When Vincent Chin was murdered in 1982 by 2 white men because of his skin color, the perpetrators were sentenced to pay 3000 dollars and no jail time. The judge said, "these were not the kind of men you send to jail... You don't make the punishment fit the crime; you make the punishment fit the criminal." It looks like they did it again with Liang -- making the punishment fit the "criminal" instead of the crime. A Chinaman's chance was what Liang had. On a separate but related issue, when the white society decided to address past grievances of slavery and raise college admission rates for minorities at elite colleges through affirmative action programs, it is paid by lost opportunities of Chinese Americans. Statistically, Chinese American candidates' scores, grades and extracurricular accomplishments must be much higher than white applicants for acceptance. Young Chinese Americans, be it a policeman, an engineer (Vincent Chin) or a college applicant, are not equally protected by the legal system, which has failed us again and again. The "model minority" must no longer remain silent. Speak up now or continue to be invisible and mistreated!
71
I can't help but notice a lot of Liang's supporters here bring up his fear and timidity which they feel exonerate him of intentional wrongdoing. they believe the narrative that he was simply afraid and made a "tragic mistake." whereas the white cops they reference getting off, although they claimed the same thing, must have been lying.
Note that you are the one doing the stereotyping when you buy into this timid Asian narrative. Ironically it might have gotten him off if more of the jury had seen him as the timid Asian man who can't be held responsible for his actions. I don't know, if it were me Id prefer to man up and take the consequences rather than being painted as a coward.
Note that you are the one doing the stereotyping when you buy into this timid Asian narrative. Ironically it might have gotten him off if more of the jury had seen him as the timid Asian man who can't be held responsible for his actions. I don't know, if it were me Id prefer to man up and take the consequences rather than being painted as a coward.
I'll say it again (even if it's not published), this is about the unlawful killing of black people by people whose job it is to protect us. Black Lives Matter, and others, have made it clear that the color/ethnicity of the officer is irrelevant. The NYPD needs to increase, improve its training of officers. Also I didn't agree with the diminishment of their benefits which began with Bloomberg.
2
While it doesn't seem that this was motivated by race or anything of the like, the fact that the officer's gun went off and killed a man unintentionally, calls into question his ability to perform the job. The fact that he was on probation tops it off.
6
There is a recurring sentiment of "Tough break, but someone died and someone's gotta pay." When did justice become punitive purely for the sake of being punitive? Sentencing this cop to 15 years of life serves neither as a corrective for the individual ("Next time I won't accidentally fire a bullet into a wall, which may ricochet and kill someone"), nor will it deter future incidences where individuals find themselves in the same situation (accidentally discharging a bullet when there is no known target). Certainly accountability is in order; the cop was rightly tried and some consequence, including relieving him of being an active duty officer, is in order. But 15 years? Destroying another life does nothing to bring back the one lost. That's just being irrationally vengeful. For those who say this has nothing to do with race, the lens here is that certain cops, particularly minority cops, (Liang) are being overzealously prosecuted as a gesture to right the wrongs of others (white cops who aggressively engage in unchecked violence towards minorities with impunity, which was clearly NOT the situation here). In essence, there is the sense that the system is merely covering up racial injustice with some more racial injustice.
39
I tend to agree that the conviction was racially motivated. I am sure the fact the NYPD/DA/Grand Jury acted on this was because they had a probationary officer (Not many 'old cops' to support him, almost a civilian.); who was a minority; who did something incredibly stupid. Because he was a non-black minority, he was easy to sacrifice.
OTOH, what he did-trying to open a door, with a loaded pistol in his hand–with his finger in the trigger guard–was incredibly stupid and fits the definition of manslaughter.
So, this whole thing is–of course–racially biased. That's status quo. I doubt they can do anything else. That's been my experience as a part-time Manhattan-ite who has been constantly hassled by the police because I look different in my upscale neighborhood and drive a car with out of state plates.
However, making race an issue here is not helpful, because the guy, actually, committed the crime he was accused of and the jury agreed.
The NYPD needed someone to throw to the wolves and this guy's poor understanding of safe gun handling handed himself to then.
OTOH, what he did-trying to open a door, with a loaded pistol in his hand–with his finger in the trigger guard–was incredibly stupid and fits the definition of manslaughter.
So, this whole thing is–of course–racially biased. That's status quo. I doubt they can do anything else. That's been my experience as a part-time Manhattan-ite who has been constantly hassled by the police because I look different in my upscale neighborhood and drive a car with out of state plates.
However, making race an issue here is not helpful, because the guy, actually, committed the crime he was accused of and the jury agreed.
The NYPD needed someone to throw to the wolves and this guy's poor understanding of safe gun handling handed himself to then.
3
Blacks are no more likely to be shot by police according to African American, Harvard professor,Ronald Freyer.
6
Now I know why Trump is leading in the polls.
To the Liang family -- the Chinese community is behind you.
To the Liang family -- the Chinese community is behind you.
22
Here is how this African America woman see it, Police Office Peter Lianga was an "easy target'! Yes, he over reacted, having his gun out, maybe he had not been properly trained? Maybe he had hear stories about folks in The Projects, Blacks, African Americans and perhaps he was afraid? Perhaps he should not have been a policeman? But if had he been white there would have been no way he would have been convicted. He would have "walked" like so,many, many, white police officers in New York and else where have "walker" after committing murder, killing folks of color. This is a sad, sad, case and there are no winners. The victims family needs to get a good lawyer, several if needed and sue!!!!!! sue sue!!! Of course no money will bring back the victim, but perhaps his family will benefit and move away from The Project, use the money to obtain education, buy homes, and start living better lives. Black lives do matter.!
11
Years ago, I had the occasion to speak to a Chinese-American police officer, a pleasant and polite fellow, and asked him how he was finding his job. (Our precinct is the 7-0.) Shaking his head, he replied, "You have no idea. Some people behave like animals."
But I do have an idea. I look out my window and see, particularly in nice weather, unutterably stupid, coarse behavior almost daily.
As Harper Lee said of the white-trash Ewell family, "They are people but they live like animals." For generations, she continues, they have lived in filth, disdained education, and sponged off the county. Any time they'd like to, they could buckle down in school, learn something, and rejoin civilization. But they're almost bred by now to be bestial.
There are fools and foul-mouthed, criminal louts of every color.
I feel very sorry indeed for Mr. Gurley's family, but we don't give 15 years to drunkards who speed along our avenues, kill people, and drive away. Cops are easy targets nowadays. Perhaps the good men of our housing projects should begin citizen patrols, under the auspices of the police department, the way my father-in-law and his neighbors did in the 1980s, when Flatbush was under siege by criminals.
But I do have an idea. I look out my window and see, particularly in nice weather, unutterably stupid, coarse behavior almost daily.
As Harper Lee said of the white-trash Ewell family, "They are people but they live like animals." For generations, she continues, they have lived in filth, disdained education, and sponged off the county. Any time they'd like to, they could buckle down in school, learn something, and rejoin civilization. But they're almost bred by now to be bestial.
There are fools and foul-mouthed, criminal louts of every color.
I feel very sorry indeed for Mr. Gurley's family, but we don't give 15 years to drunkards who speed along our avenues, kill people, and drive away. Cops are easy targets nowadays. Perhaps the good men of our housing projects should begin citizen patrols, under the auspices of the police department, the way my father-in-law and his neighbors did in the 1980s, when Flatbush was under siege by criminals.
24
Being a police officer not only sacrifices his own life to protect the citizens, he also has to face unjustified verdict by the people he protects. Being an Asian police officer is even harder, once he makes a mistake, they will throw him out as if he has not been one of their own men. Liang is going to jail, for accidentally firing a bullet to a wall, which tragically cost a life, I’m sure all the real criminals in the cells will want to kill him for he has been a cop. Liang is convicted to criminal that he grows up to fight against since 5 years old. He has tried to hurt himself and cried that he wished the bullet hit himself. I’m sad and I’m speechless, I don’t know how this is justified.
21
Therefore Akai Gurley is a innocent man doing nothing, and Peter liang just come in shoot him?
2
Discrimination is becoming subtle and it is especially true when we make mistakes. “Has officer Liang been treated equally by the same standard” is the question in debate! The tragedy of a loss of innocent life was not in question. As the “model immigrant”, we have been abused for too long. We teach our kids staying away from politics and studying hard so they can go to medical school. Because we knew better from the lessons learned. Racial discrimination comes in different forms. Our kids don’t benefit from affirmative action or legacy programs. Even though most of us work in tech, medical and research professions, the glass ceilings are heavy on top of us! It is the very reason that I firmly support Hillary! We are all trying to break glass ceilings. The simplistic view from the other candidate can be insulting! Finally, we should turn our anger into vote!
6
Of course. Why do you think we nuked Asian Japan twice in WW2, but never nuked Germany even once, whose behavior was a thousnd times worse than japan.
And what would have been the result if he had been tried before a jury of HIS (Asian) peers?
And what would have been the result if he had been tried before a jury of HIS (Asian) peers?
8
If this poor cop was black , like one commenter said , Sharpton would be screaming . If he was white Giuliani would be on every channel talking about the " war on law enforcement and white people " . Both are stone quiet , not a peep from either ! I don't watch Faux News but if I was a betting man I'd wager that this story hadn't even been considered as newsworthy !
4
The issue is the unlawful killing of black people by people whose job it is to protect us. Thank you.
4
It is telling that Asians express "dismay" and "frustration" but not "anger".
12
A triumph for political correctness. A total failure of Justice.
9
Yet another example of an undeniable institutional reality: culpability, if it does, always will sink to the most junior level; e.g. cf. Abu Grey, Mai Lai... The rules written by the institution guarantee this result.
Being Chinese is about national origin. While being Asian is related geography. Being yellowish brown is connected to color. None of these factors have anything to do with race as in human. Profiling, stalking, stopping and shooting black African Americans is a sport engaged by cops in blue from all national origins, geographical places and colors.
3
The people who are blaming Asians - the issue is not that this man got convicted. It is that hundreds or thousands of white cops are not even investigated, or prosecuted, much less convicted of anything, for MUCH MUCH worse. Shooting black men who are running away in their back, shooting children, beating up people like animals, treating them and talking about them like they are animals, and they go Scot free. And every single time, there are thousands of commenters here, white commenters, liberal commenters and conservative commenters, who justify all of that and say the black men are responsible. But now finally they nailed an Asian guy, I bet one of the very few Asian cops anywhere, as the fall guy, and all the white folks can now say "see, WE are not racist, we are very objective"
It appears racism is one issue that unites all whites. On this, there is red and blue America.
It appears racism is one issue that unites all whites. On this, there is red and blue America.
22
This is racial discrimination, white cops escaped the penalty but Asian guys became scapegoat.
When can America be a truly fair society??
When can America be a truly fair society??
10
Yeah, Liang was so innocent that he tried to cover up the "accident." And he was so conscientious that he gave no aid to the dying victim.
1
Something is wrong with a justice system that can convict in such a seemingly arbitrary manner. I cannot believe that this guy faces years in jail while Panteleo, shown on video, choking the life out of Eric Garner, walks free. Let's get the wheels of justice rolling in the right direction.
11
First off, Officer Liang did not waive a jury trial, which is Standard Operating Procedure for 99.9% of police that are put on trial in New York courts.
Second, the white police officer who participated in the assault of the Asian man who ran over the biker WAS convicted and is in prison.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/06/nyregion/detective-in-manhattan-biker-...
Second, the white police officer who participated in the assault of the Asian man who ran over the biker WAS convicted and is in prison.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/06/nyregion/detective-in-manhattan-biker-...
The judge will overturn the verdict.
7
What we have learned about New York justice is it is OK for a police officer to shoot African Americans unless they are an Asian American police officer.
Behavior like this and a policy of throwing of people out of their homes with no chance to appeal is reprehensible. So also is the fact we tolerate it.
Behavior like this and a policy of throwing of people out of their homes with no chance to appeal is reprehensible. So also is the fact we tolerate it.
14
This cop was afraid to be in the same stairwell little black girls play on daily. What an incredibly inept defense - "I am a cop, but I am afraid of the stairs where black people live so I shot him." Outrageous. And lets be honest; many Asians are too often afraid of us blacks. I've been in expensive suits on the subway at night, and have seen Asians cower. Give me a break. He should have been convicted of second degree murder. Liang got off lucky.
7
Very disappointing considering the circumstances. This is not even close to the horrible cases that have occurred elsewhere, where none of the police officers were charged or convicted of anything.
18
It's a tragic for both the officer and the victim but still feel it's unfair to Peter Liang when other different color officers have support from powerful political people.
8
In a radio news report I heard, the DA asserted in closing arguments that Liang intentionally aimed and shot at Gurley but missed hitting him directly. If the officer was not charged with murder, that statement would seem to me to be an incitement to the jury that could eventually call into question the verdict.
8
So many commenters have tried to describe the difference between murder and manslaughter and yet the unbelievable comments about how Liang didn't deserve to be convicted continue to come. I'm beginning to suspect that some people just don't want to know what manslaughter is.
2
Scapegoating is a real phenomena, but not in this case and definitely not because of the race of the shooter. All police must be held accountable for shooting unarmed and non threatening people. All. There are Black officers on trial in Baltimore for killing an unarmed, shackled Black man in transport in Baltimore. They are not scapegoats in the eyes of Black Amrricans. They are rightfully accused of manslaughter. I don't care what your race is. None of us should tolerate our tax dollars supporting violence on the psrt of the state that targets people, based on race, rather than committing.
1
Peter Liang made a terrible mistake, he should suffer the consequences. An
innocent man is kill because of his reckless action. But, he is not a killer.
innocent man is kill because of his reckless action. But, he is not a killer.
1
It is a travesty that an innocent Asian man is going to jail for an accident. Where is the justice here? There was no intention to harm. Why is there a different set of rules for whites and minorities?
8
Sentencing has not occurred. My guess is that Liang will get probation and community service and then the you know what will hit the fan as it will be no justice for the victim yada yada yada.
1
Reasons why I am sad are :
1) Charging Officer Liang will not drive improvement in police conduct nor reduce cop killings. Injustice will continue. I support punishment if that will change for the better. Will this bring change in a way that it should ( ie bringing ALL cops to trials) ?
2) NYPD does not support one of their own ( yes this should also be applied to Asian cops). Serving as a police officer is a dangerous job in NYC. Liang was on patrol performing his duty and is now chastised forever. However, NYPD's own negligence escapes repercussions.
By making this case to be the model example of police accountability, the intent is misapplied.
1) Charging Officer Liang will not drive improvement in police conduct nor reduce cop killings. Injustice will continue. I support punishment if that will change for the better. Will this bring change in a way that it should ( ie bringing ALL cops to trials) ?
2) NYPD does not support one of their own ( yes this should also be applied to Asian cops). Serving as a police officer is a dangerous job in NYC. Liang was on patrol performing his duty and is now chastised forever. However, NYPD's own negligence escapes repercussions.
By making this case to be the model example of police accountability, the intent is misapplied.
8
Being a police officer not only sacrifices his own life to protect the citizens, but also has to face unjustified verdict by the people he protects. Being an Asian police officer is even harder,once he makes a mistake,he is thrown out as if he has never been one of their own men. Liang is going into jail, for accidentally firing a bullet into a wall, which tragically costed a life, i'm sure all the criminals in the cells would like to kill him for he has been a cop. He is now convicted to be criminal that he grows up to fight against since 5 years old. Liang has tried hurt self and cried he wished the strayed bullet hit himself. I am sad and speechless, I don't know how this is justified.
10
I doubt that he will ever see a day inside a jail cell. I'd bet probation or a suspended sentence. The conviction was enough to make the NYPD look like the good guys for the required 15 minutes.
Cops usually serve sentences in "SHU" (segregated housing units) or in separate facilities. They don't throw them into gen pop.
If a non-cop negligently discharged a firearm and killed someone, people would be screaming for his blood.
He committed a crime, that he was a probationary cop with no 'juice' to help him and an Asian American allowed NYPD to profit off his negligence. This was both related and not related to race.
It is unquestioned he committed a crime.
Cops usually serve sentences in "SHU" (segregated housing units) or in separate facilities. They don't throw them into gen pop.
If a non-cop negligently discharged a firearm and killed someone, people would be screaming for his blood.
He committed a crime, that he was a probationary cop with no 'juice' to help him and an Asian American allowed NYPD to profit off his negligence. This was both related and not related to race.
It is unquestioned he committed a crime.
1
I agree that this young man and his partner paid the price for all the other cops who should have been convicted and weren't. It is hard to believe that race was not a factor. As Liu pointed out, the Asian community is not quick to speak out.
An important question that I have not seen anyone raise: why were two "probies" sent out together on this kind of dangerous patrol?
An important question that I have not seen anyone raise: why were two "probies" sent out together on this kind of dangerous patrol?
7
What kind of illogic am I seeing among many comments here. Yes I agree, many white cops are literally getting away with murder all over the country because all races here, including many blacks pile on the black man and assumes the worse about black victims. This is a huge disgrace and a blight on what we consider a civilized society. This however in no way excuse the negligence of this Asian officer. Let's use a civilian analogy. Can citizen a, driving though what's considered a dangerous neighbourhood with a 30 mph speed limit rev up his car to 100mph, plough into another car filled with children and destroy several lives because "he was scared". Then why did he drive through the neighbourhood? In many ways what Liang did was worse than that analogy. He pulled a loaded weapon and negligently discharged this weapon in a dark stairway. If he was so scared there is a million other jobs he could have been doing, including maybe desk work in the police department or he could have become a policeman in Scarsdale or a suburb in which the risk would be much less to him.
1
Anybody with basic statistics training will know this is typical "Racial Profiling". In the whole United States, asian is occupied less than 1% police force. among all the shots fired by the cops. less than 0.01% fired by the asian cops. among all the shootings of civilians by cops, 100% asian cops(Peter liang is the only one I heard for this kind of shootings) were charged and found the guilt. Of course, american sucked at math, so I don't expect them to understand my logic here.
With that said, I feel sorry for the victim. but an accident is an accident. You don't see a doctor got put into a jail if his mistake caused a patient's life. his license may be withdrawn and he may have to pay the heavy fine, but he doesn't deserve to put into the jail because an accident is an accident.
With that said, I feel sorry for the victim. but an accident is an accident. You don't see a doctor got put into a jail if his mistake caused a patient's life. his license may be withdrawn and he may have to pay the heavy fine, but he doesn't deserve to put into the jail because an accident is an accident.
6
Since most American cities have housing projects and violence prone areas where middle class people are afraid to go, I do not understand why our country is admitting Central Americans who claim they are running from the same.
We need to concentrate our resources on helping our own citizens create safe communities before we can absorb poor, uneducated people from all over the world.
We need to concentrate our resources on helping our own citizens create safe communities before we can absorb poor, uneducated people from all over the world.
2
The real guilty parties here are the Mayors office, the NYPD and its academy system. Its too much of a "get 'em in, get 'em out" on the street mentality. Under-trained in the academy, only to face poor street-training on the job. Where training officers can be nearly as fresh as their trainees.
All PD's are caught in the rock and a hard place. They and the public want more experienced veterans teamed up with newbies on these sensitive, volatile patrol details. But for the most part, the vets want out of those risky details - as they've earned it. Not a wrong thing for them to want.
Those who might want to, or assigned to stay are not really incentivized to really put in the hard work. Maybe to get more experienced cops on these details they need more pay to lure them. ??? I dont know. But real effort has to be made.
But what I think is necessary is for the NYPD, all PD's, to put live cameras, perhaps with a live training officer on the other end, on all newbie cops during their probation, and also have all their tour interactions, patrols, etc, constantly analyzed by their trainers. (In fact, all cops should be wearing cameras and have the pertinent activities of their tours recorded live and archived by a third party!)
Plus, on-going training in fire-arms handling should be mandatory, especially for close quarters which is the most likely scenario for urban cops. Monthly, lecture/live-action review classes. Just calling them professionals isnt enough.
All PD's are caught in the rock and a hard place. They and the public want more experienced veterans teamed up with newbies on these sensitive, volatile patrol details. But for the most part, the vets want out of those risky details - as they've earned it. Not a wrong thing for them to want.
Those who might want to, or assigned to stay are not really incentivized to really put in the hard work. Maybe to get more experienced cops on these details they need more pay to lure them. ??? I dont know. But real effort has to be made.
But what I think is necessary is for the NYPD, all PD's, to put live cameras, perhaps with a live training officer on the other end, on all newbie cops during their probation, and also have all their tour interactions, patrols, etc, constantly analyzed by their trainers. (In fact, all cops should be wearing cameras and have the pertinent activities of their tours recorded live and archived by a third party!)
Plus, on-going training in fire-arms handling should be mandatory, especially for close quarters which is the most likely scenario for urban cops. Monthly, lecture/live-action review classes. Just calling them professionals isnt enough.
3
"what I think is necessary is for the NYPD, all PD's, to put live cameras, perhaps with a live training officer on the other end, on all newbie cops during their probation"
Unless it was a night vision camera how would a camera have helped in an unlighted hallway?
Unless it was a night vision camera how would a camera have helped in an unlighted hallway?
2
I have lived in NYC my whole life, and the Chinese community should become more active in politics. The officer in question fired a gun down a dark stair case. He made a terrible mistake and is guilty of this action. Why organize over such a clear cut issue? No one discriminated against him in becoming an officer. He admits murdering an innocent person over his own confusion. It is very sad that he is sorry, however he should show remorse, and now must face justice. A family lost their loved one, and the protestors are not showing respect and dignity to the victim or that family.
Reading the comments, it is just stunning to see again how deeply hyper-racialized the American mind and soul are, how race is not only an analytical tool that allows us to become aware of racism, but how race decides how we see and judge and think and feel in ways that overwhelm our abilities to listen and reason and act wisely.
To see here in these comments and in this story the way race commands our identities and tears us apart from each other--it's mind-boggling and heart-breaking. Race is a kind of God in the way we bow to its power to guide our thinking and feeling and action and tell us who we are. And I'm starting to fear that the way we study and talk about race now, today, is only strengthening its power over us, making race the most important thing about us. I'm starting to think that we should stop worshipping this God and be a little more suspicious of its doings. "Race" is important as a tool for understanding racism, but it also needs to be treated with suspicion. And we very strongly need some countervailing powers in our society--some better angels that will draw us together.
To see here in these comments and in this story the way race commands our identities and tears us apart from each other--it's mind-boggling and heart-breaking. Race is a kind of God in the way we bow to its power to guide our thinking and feeling and action and tell us who we are. And I'm starting to fear that the way we study and talk about race now, today, is only strengthening its power over us, making race the most important thing about us. I'm starting to think that we should stop worshipping this God and be a little more suspicious of its doings. "Race" is important as a tool for understanding racism, but it also needs to be treated with suspicion. And we very strongly need some countervailing powers in our society--some better angels that will draw us together.
1
A shocking and questionable verdict. What if the bullit had struck the victum in the arm, the Officer would probably have been reprimanded or at worse fired. How many people reading this would perform CPR on a complete stranger exchanging body fluids? So a sober, tragic accident will put him in jail with violent criminals? That doesn't happen in a car accident. The judge should sentence only community service. Anything more would deepen this tragedy.
7
Exactly, I alway compared this accident with a car accident, does a fatal motor accident warrant a crime. The answer is No. How justice to sentence a rookie police officer who was brave enough to step into one of most dangerous building for an accident?
4
The racism in this case was that it went to a jury while Eric Garner's for instance did not, and we had very incriminating evidence. the choice to prosecute one and not the other feels bigoted to me. 4 white cops choke a man to death and that is not sufficient? While Liang shoots into a darkened stairway and accidentally kills a man is? Feels like scapegoating to me.
Where was the repugnant loudmouth Pat Lynch? He's usually tooting his horn the second a white cop is even accused of anything.
the whole thing smells and one can certainly understand the skepticism in the ASian community.
Where was the repugnant loudmouth Pat Lynch? He's usually tooting his horn the second a white cop is even accused of anything.
the whole thing smells and one can certainly understand the skepticism in the ASian community.
7
So we cannot ever indict any officer unless all other officers in comparable circumstances are indicted also. And I cannot be given a traffic ticket because I see every day dozens of people doing the same thing and not getting traffic tickets. Perfect logic.
And we cannot ever decide that bad things have been tolerated for far too long, and that times have changed, and that the time has come to put a stop to it. Because we did not put a stop to it last year, or five years ago, or ten years ago.
And our rising to the defense of an Asian American accused police officer is of course not racist, whereas the decisions by a prosecutor to indict and a separate jury to convict IS racist - because the convicted happens to be Asian American, and that occurrence proves cause and motive.
Interesting that in this long article nobody ever seems to dispute the accusations. So Martin Luther King day has again come and gone, and contents of character, and the things people actually do, still lose to the color of their skin and their ethnicity.
Seems to me the racists in this discussion are those who think they need to defend somebody because of race or ethnicity.
And we cannot ever decide that bad things have been tolerated for far too long, and that times have changed, and that the time has come to put a stop to it. Because we did not put a stop to it last year, or five years ago, or ten years ago.
And our rising to the defense of an Asian American accused police officer is of course not racist, whereas the decisions by a prosecutor to indict and a separate jury to convict IS racist - because the convicted happens to be Asian American, and that occurrence proves cause and motive.
Interesting that in this long article nobody ever seems to dispute the accusations. So Martin Luther King day has again come and gone, and contents of character, and the things people actually do, still lose to the color of their skin and their ethnicity.
Seems to me the racists in this discussion are those who think they need to defend somebody because of race or ethnicity.
3
This is one of the best example of political correctness gone awry. This is why Trump is winning. People are sick of this pervasive political correctness sickness pervading US society. Now we're convicting a cop of manslaughter for a bullet that ricocheted of a wall, all because it was a black man that was killed? He was cop going into a crime infested housing project, called in that there was a crime in progress, going into a dark dangerous stairwell. For God's sake, how twisted is this?
11
If Officer Liang was African-American or white, would the current Brooklyn prosecutor pursued the case similarly? The Brooklyn prosecutor has capitalised on a political opportunity and so did head of the Patrolman's union. Officer Liang's story is also another example of our society that is racially biased and the national discourse that appears to be only monochromatic.
6
Liang was convicted of 2nd degree manslaughter. The state of mind for 2nd degree manslaughter is "recklessness" (which is why it's not murder, which requires intent). Apparently what happened is that Liang got scared in a dark stairway in a high-crime neighborhood, heard a noise and shot at a shadow. The bullet ricocheted off a wall and with incredible bad luck for the victim (but also for Liang) went through the victim's heart. Shooting at a shadow certainly doesn't make Liang a monster. It makes Liang a poorly trained rookie cop who lost his nerve in a scary situation. But the result is an innocent man dead, and someone has to pay. Since that someone is Liang, and since Liang's actions seem to meet the legal standard for "recklessness," the verdict appears to be just. Now it's up to the judge to apply what measure of mercy he deems appropriate at sentencing, Let's hope that racial politics plays no part.
5
That's a really interesting way to describe a person who totally ignored all gun safety rules, tried to open a door with a pistol in his hand, causing it to discharge and strike the victim.
He didn't INTEND for the pistol to discharge, he was reckless and it was negligently discharged. Actually, I am surprised the DA didn't go for negligent homicide; but, maybe the politics prevented that.
He didn't INTEND for the pistol to discharge, he was reckless and it was negligently discharged. Actually, I am surprised the DA didn't go for negligent homicide; but, maybe the politics prevented that.
can someone explain what is "uncontrolled danger for a rookie cop"?In a situation with very poor visuability, very danger place, no experienced police, 2 cop were killed several days ago, Anything can be worse than that? On the top of that poor training! Perfect storm!
Liang is guilty for a ricochet bullet , I have to say this is mission impossible for any police officers!
Liang is guilty for a ricochet bullet , I have to say this is mission impossible for any police officers!
11
This is not about what would have happened if the officer was white or black. He isn't. This is about the fact that an innocent man is dead because of his actions. That's a fact. To the mar this mans death with notions that giving him the justice he deserves is dependent on perceptions of the race of his killer is an insult to his life and those of the relatives left to mourn him. He is dead. Somebody killed him. Justice will be done.
8
I for one do not understand the Times criteria for picking comments.
The points made above are well taken. That said, the racial angle is exactly the article is about. The punishment is disproportionate to the crime. It's a case of negligence and incompetence, not malicious intent. The verdict recognizes this fact and instead focuses on his callousness for not extending a hand after. Should the lack of compassion, or lack of required skill according to the officer, lead to 15 years jail time? To say nothing of the results of other way more egregious police abuses.
Justice should be done to all involved.
The points made above are well taken. That said, the racial angle is exactly the article is about. The punishment is disproportionate to the crime. It's a case of negligence and incompetence, not malicious intent. The verdict recognizes this fact and instead focuses on his callousness for not extending a hand after. Should the lack of compassion, or lack of required skill according to the officer, lead to 15 years jail time? To say nothing of the results of other way more egregious police abuses.
Justice should be done to all involved.
2
I don't agree that he was a scapegoat because of race. Rather he was in the very unlucky position of his case coming after a series of high-profile officer shootings where officers who should not have been let off were let off. Take Eric Garner's case and compare a choke-hold--physical contact that killed a man-- to a stray bullet not aimed at anyone. My god, this unfortunate man is paying not just for his own error but for the many *deliberate* recent shootings of black men by police officers. Add to that, his poor training, the scary situation, the fact that two similarly badly trained officers were killed just last week performing the exact same task! Yet there's a lynching party for this one man. It's very sad. I don't know what the answer is but I don't think it's racial, I think it's a numbers game.
10
It can only be a pure a numbers game if the whole process is race-blinded. However, can we say that the race is totally unidentifiable in this case? Is the number the only measure here? I don't think so.
2
the officers last week were wounded, not killed. both have been released from the hospital. you're absolutely right about the scapegoat and training issues.
Race definitely played a role. If MR Liang was " White" he would never had been convicted( put on administrative pay). The problem: In the Asian communities they don't speak up and that can be devastating towards a jury. The solution to the problem: Put African American cops in their neighborhoods, White Cops in their own neighborhoods, Asian Cops in their own neighborhoods etc and the " Racial problem" would be resolved! Why wasn't the " White cop" in Staten Island, NY brought up on Manslaughter charges for killing the unarmed African American after the Illegal Chokehold? Talk about an injustice! Once again, the taxpayers are responsible for negligent/ incompetent cops who continue to cost the taxpayers millions and millions of dollars in lawsuits!
11
The problem isn't that Liang was wrongfully convicted, the evidence seems to support the verdict. The problem is that so many white officers have terrorized the communities they police for generations, and done so with impunity, so I can understand why Chinese Americans are angry/frustrated.
22
Bingo!
1
Something is not kosher here. The silence from people who should have been supporting Liang is deafening. Where is Patrick Lynch who is typically quite loud in defending the actions of the NYPD in much worse situations? Where is the police commissioner? Asian politicians in the city? Any police shooting of an unarmed civilian is tragic but this situation appeared to have been an accident and Liang does not seem to be the typical untrustworthy cop and he has been served up as a scapegoat.
I don't think Liang should go to prison. I hope Asian people in NYC will become more vocal in advocating for their rights.
I don't think Liang should go to prison. I hope Asian people in NYC will become more vocal in advocating for their rights.
33
Unfortunately, a life was taken away from a family and that tragic reality can never be changed. They deserve some sort of accountability and closure. But then again, how are Asian Americans suppose to reconcile the fact that there was a guilty verdict stemming from a ricocheted bullet fired by an Asian and the lack of charges for white man who performed a banned chokehold in Staten Island? Or yet further, an innocent verdict from a night watchman killing an unarmed boy?
I don't the Liang jury was deliberately biased, but I can't help thinking that this verdict is just uncomfortable to the Asian community.
I don't the Liang jury was deliberately biased, but I can't help thinking that this verdict is just uncomfortable to the Asian community.
16
Liang is a scapegoat. It was a terrible accident, there clearly was no malicious intent. I hope he gets probation or there is an appeal. It serves no one for him to go to prison. Certainly there will be a civil suit, and that's what it always comes down to.
29
Malice aforethought is not an element of the crime.
As much as I agree he was scapegoated; he did commit a negligent act that led directly to the death of another person.
As much as I agree he was scapegoated; he did commit a negligent act that led directly to the death of another person.
A terrible accident is your gun going off while cleaning it. Laing was acting with criminal negligence the minute he unholstered his gun. No malicious intent is needed.
This was a tragic accident resulting in the death of an innocent man; the railroading of Peter Liang on manslaughter charges is wrong. The victim was killed by a ricochet bullet accidentally discharged; where is the mercy or understanding here? The Brooklyn DA should be ashamed of himself throwing this guy under the bus. The Dialou case, Sean Bell and Eric Garner were all slain and nobody on law enforcement paid any price.
41
@Peter, there is a difference between an accident and a mistake. I'm afraid that officer Liang commiy the latter.
It's a shame that he had to patrol a darkened stairwell in a housing project but that's what he signed up for. He had no justification to have his gun out. He went against his training and the NYPD's protocols before and after the shooting. It's a tragedy all around but don't forget that a young man is dead due to this officer's recklessness.
It's a shame that he had to patrol a darkened stairwell in a housing project but that's what he signed up for. He had no justification to have his gun out. He went against his training and the NYPD's protocols before and after the shooting. It's a tragedy all around but don't forget that a young man is dead due to this officer's recklessness.
1
You need to take a look at the definition of manslaughter, then look at the evidence of what fmr. P.O. Liang did (and did not do) before running off at the mouth.
I agree. Given what the white cops get away with over the years, this guy was a scape goat. Plain and simple.
34
White cops have gotten away with a lot. But the victims were having an encounter with the police. The victim here was minding his own business. Big difference.
Some of the commenters are confusing murder and manslaughter. They are not the same thing. Murder is intentional and can result in a life sentence. Peter Liang wasn't convicted of murder. He didn't intentionally kill anyone. Peter Liang was convicted of manslaughter. The maximum sentence is 15 years in prison. Manslaughter occurs when your negligence, carelessness, (or other criminal activity) lead to leads to a death. Its still a crime. His actions caused the death of another.
22
You are describing Negligent Homicide, NYS 125.10, punishable up to 4 years. The officer here was convicted of Manslaughter in the Second Degree, NYS 125.15, punishable up to 15 years. The charge against the officer requires proof of recklessness. (Negligence is not enough.) Under New York law, recklessness is defined as follows;
A person acts recklessly with respect to a result or a circumstance when he is aware of and consciously disregards a substantial and unjustifiable risk
that such result will occur or that such circumstance exists. The risk
must be of such nature and degree that disregard thereof constitutes a
gross deviation from the standard of conduct that a reasonable person
would observe in the situation.
The key words in the definition are "gross deviation".
A person acts recklessly with respect to a result or a circumstance when he is aware of and consciously disregards a substantial and unjustifiable risk
that such result will occur or that such circumstance exists. The risk
must be of such nature and degree that disregard thereof constitutes a
gross deviation from the standard of conduct that a reasonable person
would observe in the situation.
The key words in the definition are "gross deviation".
1
But compare to other white officers cases, they all get away and no indict. The Dialou case, Sean Bell and Eric Garner were all slain and nobody on law enforcement paid any price.
4
It's terrible that a young man is dead as a result of this incident. And his conduct after the shooting was reprehensible. However, the motive for prosecuting this particular police officer -- at this particular time -- is troubling. He needs to be held accountable for his actions, but this is troubling. This case highlights the problems in the criminal justice. This case suggests that minority police officers are prosecuted vigorously, and white police officers are not prosecuted vigorously. Look at the facts: in this case the Prosecution got an indictment and a guilty verdict, and in numerous other cases involving white police officers -- with much more heinous facts -- the Prosecution cannot even obtain an indictment. It looks like minority police officers are prosecuted with vigor, and white police officers are given a pass.
78
Of course, the county or at least the court where the incident occurs has everything to do with the ultimate disposition. The Brooklyn DA has a certain constituency, the Staten Island DA has another. If the officer had been white, I am quite sure the Brooklyn DA would have pursued the same indictment; what would have been more interesting is if the officer had been black. That we will never know.
I also think the judge was unfair in not allowing the defense to bring up the incident in the Bronx which was certainly pertinent to this whole thing. I thought the defense was allowed to bring up anything in the way of mitigation.
It will be very interesting to see the ultimate sentence. I think ultimately, the officer will receive probation so in that context, it really doesn't matter that he was convicted of manslaughter and not any of the lesser crimes. Certainly having his gun out and finger near the trigger represents negligence to a degree and warrants loss of his job which was going to happen in any event as it also happened to his partner who threw him under the bus. When Liang gets probation, which I would wager a nickel will be his ultimate sentence, it will be interesting to see if riots begin and all the BLM protests begin. It will also be interesting to see the DA's recommendations for sentencing.
I also think the judge was unfair in not allowing the defense to bring up the incident in the Bronx which was certainly pertinent to this whole thing. I thought the defense was allowed to bring up anything in the way of mitigation.
It will be very interesting to see the ultimate sentence. I think ultimately, the officer will receive probation so in that context, it really doesn't matter that he was convicted of manslaughter and not any of the lesser crimes. Certainly having his gun out and finger near the trigger represents negligence to a degree and warrants loss of his job which was going to happen in any event as it also happened to his partner who threw him under the bus. When Liang gets probation, which I would wager a nickel will be his ultimate sentence, it will be interesting to see if riots begin and all the BLM protests begin. It will also be interesting to see the DA's recommendations for sentencing.
6
As an African American my feelings are mixed.
What he did was wrong and he should have to face consequences. But he only faced them because of his race. Isn't ironic that the only officer to face discipline after white police officers choked a man to death was the black female officer who arrived on the scene to help? Or that the black police chief of a small Oklahoma town leads a raid on the home of a local white supremacist is shot by the supremacist and the supremacist not only comes out unscathed but is set free. Can you imagine the same scenario if the roles has been reversed? The fact is police protect their own , if they're white. If you're a minority officer, watch your back.
What he did was wrong and he should have to face consequences. But he only faced them because of his race. Isn't ironic that the only officer to face discipline after white police officers choked a man to death was the black female officer who arrived on the scene to help? Or that the black police chief of a small Oklahoma town leads a raid on the home of a local white supremacist is shot by the supremacist and the supremacist not only comes out unscathed but is set free. Can you imagine the same scenario if the roles has been reversed? The fact is police protect their own , if they're white. If you're a minority officer, watch your back.
35
what bothers me about this shooting is these office have do what is call a stairwell check and it is scary when these punks hang out in the stairwell drinking their beer ..just last week two of then got shot as they were in the stairwells and the people who live in these public housing admit they loiter in the stairwells & they themselves don't even what to use the stairwells when the elevator is not working so what chance does a police office stands so maybe he did wrong but why don't u go into these stairwells & see how brave your are.
13
I'm not Asian and I think this verdict is wrong. more than wrong it is racist.
This more than any of the other similar cases was an accident. A tragedy but an accident.
It is a miscarriage of justice and should be overturned as soon as possible and he should be reinstated into the police force with back pay.
This more than any of the other similar cases was an accident. A tragedy but an accident.
It is a miscarriage of justice and should be overturned as soon as possible and he should be reinstated into the police force with back pay.
23
It is difficult to know why this officer was the one who was convicted, but the fact remains that many violent crimes by police officers remain unpunished, and the courts have to start somewhere.
I am sympathetic to the risks that police officers face, and in most cases, the officer is legitimately at risk when he or she discharges the weapon. But in cases where there is no ambiguity and an officer kills a person who does not pose a risk (and to be clear, a person with a blunt instrument or a knife beyond a few steps does not pose a risk worthy of imposing the death penalty in a summary fashion), the officer should be tried and jailed.
We can thank the NRA, and the craven politicians and analytically unsophisticated voters who follow that organization, for the current state of affairs. If private ownership of handguns were banned, the number of cases where officers are at risk would be cut dramatically.
I am sympathetic to the risks that police officers face, and in most cases, the officer is legitimately at risk when he or she discharges the weapon. But in cases where there is no ambiguity and an officer kills a person who does not pose a risk (and to be clear, a person with a blunt instrument or a knife beyond a few steps does not pose a risk worthy of imposing the death penalty in a summary fashion), the officer should be tried and jailed.
We can thank the NRA, and the craven politicians and analytically unsophisticated voters who follow that organization, for the current state of affairs. If private ownership of handguns were banned, the number of cases where officers are at risk would be cut dramatically.
6
Comparing different officer-involved shootings is extremely difficult. This case took two weeks to try. There may have been 60 hours of testimony. That means that countless facts were presented to the jury with perhaps half of them designed to contest recklessness. Sometimes small details make all the difference. Comparing this case with another equally detailed case and saying both cops should have been treated the same is a very iffy proposition.
It's sad to say the least, however, I do have to agree he was a scapegoat for many white officers Murder Black and walk like it was lunch time, it's unfortunate that he has to be the one to pay the price. I hear the family scream for justice, what is justice to you? A mistake or a person who willful pull a gun a shot someone yet half you, people sit an say he was guilty, I am saddened for him and his family as this is a very unfortunate case. Before you all cry wolf I am a black woman, who can tell injustice and this is in justice. The case should have never gone to court but someone have to take the fall.
32
I believe the Asian American community is correct in pointing out the inconsistency in the prosecution of police officers in NYC. There is no doubt in my mind if the shooter was a white officer in Manhattan, Queens or SI that the case may never have gone to trial or if it did go to trial he would have been acquitted. Why do I believe that? History, a history that tells me that no NYPD officers have ever been convicted in a state court for the killing of a black person in the line of duty. No matter how egregious. We can only hope the tide of justice is turning in the right direction but then it is still Amerikkka so I won't hold my breath. Officer Liang is in a way a scapegoat because he had th bad luck of killing a black person in Brooklyn with a black DA in a time when the spotlight is being focused on policing especially in the Black community. It doesn't mean the verdict is incorrect it just means he was very likely going to get less benefit of the doubt. I suspect his sentence will be the minimum possible.
27
Officer Liang indicted for manslaughter. Yes, an innocent man died shot by Officer Liang. I think think the verdict is right. When you see the pattern of NYPD Officers' indicted, though, is'nt it just strange that Officer Liang is the only Officer indicted in a very long time? Is it just chance that he happened to be Chinese-American? The intent was none but it resulted from fear. He is a rookie. There is no video recording of the incident nor the sequence of events. There were no chokeholds or keeping the victim down in handcuffs nor pressed by down by knees. Well, the NYPD have been looking for a scapegoat to show their openness and due process for errant and rogue Officers. Who better than Officer Liang!
17
He mireders an innocent man and they feel sorry for the murderer. Strange form of judgment. He must be punished for his actions.
It was an accident. The bullet was not going towards the man, it hit the wall first. It was obviously an accident.
15
It was not "an accident." It was MANSLAUGHTER. There is a difference. Are you all so intellectually lazy that you can't take the trouble to learn the difference
Cultural differences are clashing here, as befits a great metropolis. A rookie in a dark stairwell in public housing would likely take out his weapon - but what if we gave them better tools, including a flashlight?
I would have acquitted the officer and found the city liable for allowing the conditions. But I faced the NYPD's simulator and know what role hormones play in our behavior. With my PTSD, there would be only one possible outcome.
I would have acquitted the officer and found the city liable for allowing the conditions. But I faced the NYPD's simulator and know what role hormones play in our behavior. With my PTSD, there would be only one possible outcome.
8
The standard for manslaughter is negligence. A person needs to fail to exercise reasonable care under circumstances where it is foreseeable that such failure could result in injury to another. Mr. Liang's behavior meets that standard. He pulled a loaded gun from its holster and shot it in the direction of a noise that surprised him in a public stairway. Harm was certainly foreseeable. Sure, other officers - like the one that held Eric Garner in a chokehold - certainly seem to have met this standard as well, but that case never got to a jury. If Asian officers think they are getting an unfair shake, I'd look for bias with prosecutors who failed to bring charges against white officers, not with the jury that followed the law in convicting Mr. Liang.
29
It wasn't the prosecutors that failed to bring charges, but the grand juries that failed to indict. That's why the result is so troubling, it's a possible indication of a deeper societal disregard for Asians, not simply the system's well-known disregard.
13
I think it is the bias that got him there when far more obviously criminal acts by white officers never did is what disturbs people. It does me.
12
There should be uniform accountability for police officers regardless of race. Many people have noticed that Officer Liang has been held accountable for his gross negligence that unnecessarily cost a human life while others, like Pantaleo, the killer of Eric Garner, walks free.
The solution is not to extend to Officer Liang the privilege of being as unaccountable as Pantaleo. The solution is to hold Pantaleo accountable for personally squeezing the life out of Mr. Garner, an act which was caught on video and is arguably more morally egregious than the professional failure of Officer Liang.
The solution is not to extend to Officer Liang the privilege of being as unaccountable as Pantaleo. The solution is to hold Pantaleo accountable for personally squeezing the life out of Mr. Garner, an act which was caught on video and is arguably more morally egregious than the professional failure of Officer Liang.
39
Excellent. But to me the troubling aspect is that if you are a white cop you expect impunity and you are given impunity. Could it be that if you are white, you may have an upbringing that has emphasized your superiority, an upbringing that makes oppression second nature or that expects and takes privileges for granted and actually gets those privileges to reinforce the privilege taking? Could it be that among whites there are many who expect favorable justice and the system is set up to deliver it--from innate, age long subconscious biases favoring whites to conscious and deliberate decisions made in their favor, is the system rigged? Is scapegoating or witch hunting second nature to this system--a habit not easily broken? And because Blacks march now, demand justice, at last, as they should, subconsciously is the rigged system looking for the next weak sitting duck and finds the Asian, right there available for pleasing its addiction to unequal justice?
11
Why did the authors/editors comment on Danny Chun's ethnicity?:
"Mr. Liang, who was fired from the Police Department immediately after the verdict, faces up to 15 years in prison when he is sentenced by Justice Danny K. Chun of State Supreme Court. (Justice Chun is Korean-American.)"
Is the intent to point out that Justice Chun is not Chinese, and therefore less subject to bias? ie. A Chinese American judge would be subject to bias and unfit to hear this case? Or, is his Asian ethnicity considered relevant because it is understood that this would somehow cause him to rule differently than a judge who is not Asian? Both ideas are problematic.
This case involves the death of an innocent black man. Would the NY times include a qualifying statement on the judge's ethnic background if he were black? "... when he is sentenced by Justice Smith" (Justice Smith is African American)."
It may seem like a small detail, but details matter in journalism.
"Mr. Liang, who was fired from the Police Department immediately after the verdict, faces up to 15 years in prison when he is sentenced by Justice Danny K. Chun of State Supreme Court. (Justice Chun is Korean-American.)"
Is the intent to point out that Justice Chun is not Chinese, and therefore less subject to bias? ie. A Chinese American judge would be subject to bias and unfit to hear this case? Or, is his Asian ethnicity considered relevant because it is understood that this would somehow cause him to rule differently than a judge who is not Asian? Both ideas are problematic.
This case involves the death of an innocent black man. Would the NY times include a qualifying statement on the judge's ethnic background if he were black? "... when he is sentenced by Justice Smith" (Justice Smith is African American)."
It may seem like a small detail, but details matter in journalism.
28
Guess what, when I saw the name Chun, wondering what his ethnicity was, was the first thing that popped into my head. NYT correctly anticipated this question from their readers. Not everything is a conspiracy.
9
Thanks Chi, the same question popped into my mind as well.
My point wasn't to suggest a conspiracy, but that this part of the article represents unconscious assumptions about the relevance of ethnicity to the judge's ability to perform his or her work fairly.
My contention is that it should not be relevant. Others may agree or disagree with that notion. Including the information suggests the authors/editors considered it relevant.
My point wasn't to suggest a conspiracy, but that this part of the article represents unconscious assumptions about the relevance of ethnicity to the judge's ability to perform his or her work fairly.
My contention is that it should not be relevant. Others may agree or disagree with that notion. Including the information suggests the authors/editors considered it relevant.
Why were you wondering about the judge's ethnicity was? How is this relevant to this article or issue?
I can certainly see including the ethnicity of the judge if the article is about an alleged race-based bias of the judge. But since there is nothing in the article (or presumably, Justice Chun's past) to suggest this, I fail to see why the judge's ethnicity is relevant. After all, the NYT didn't include Chun's age, marital status, veteran status, religion, etc. And they shouldn't because it isn't relevant.
Like the previous commentator, I find it hard to believe that the NYT included this information for a purpose other than suggesting that (1) a Chinese-American judge would rule differently on the sentence, or (2) any Asian-American judge will rule differently on the sentence than any other non-Asian-American judge. I believe that neither are legitimate lines of journalistic inquiry.
For those readers who apparently have an interest in discerning what surnames match up with what ethnicities (which, incidentally, is definitely not the subject of this article), Google is just a few short clicks away.
I can certainly see including the ethnicity of the judge if the article is about an alleged race-based bias of the judge. But since there is nothing in the article (or presumably, Justice Chun's past) to suggest this, I fail to see why the judge's ethnicity is relevant. After all, the NYT didn't include Chun's age, marital status, veteran status, religion, etc. And they shouldn't because it isn't relevant.
Like the previous commentator, I find it hard to believe that the NYT included this information for a purpose other than suggesting that (1) a Chinese-American judge would rule differently on the sentence, or (2) any Asian-American judge will rule differently on the sentence than any other non-Asian-American judge. I believe that neither are legitimate lines of journalistic inquiry.
For those readers who apparently have an interest in discerning what surnames match up with what ethnicities (which, incidentally, is definitely not the subject of this article), Google is just a few short clicks away.
I have to say that I am quite shocked and dismayed by the comments and logical conclusions to be drawn by individuals quoted in the article and commenters on this piece. While it might have been easier to convict this officer because of his race it is also demonstrably true that the "accident," as many people have called it, showed a massive level of negligence on the part of the officer. Walking and then discharging one's gun in a darkened stairwell at a person that one can't even see is a text book case of negligence. Someone is dead because of this "accident." Let me repeat: SOMEONE HAS LOST THEIR LIFE BECAUSE OF THIS ENTIRELY FORESEEABLE AND PREVENTABLE "ACCIDENT". To intimate that justice was not done because a police officer of color was convicted where a white officer would have gone to jail is RIDICULOUSLY INSULTING!
I cannot believe what I am reading!
I cannot believe what I am reading!
19
Perhaps the point is not that Liung wasn't negligent or shouldn't have been convicted, but that it's striking that, while so many police officers around the nation have behaved negligently, the only one who's been convicted is a POC. That is sort of weirdly coincidental.
7
No, I think most people believes that officer Liang should be held accountable. The point many people are making is that in comparison to other high profile cases, officer Liang was unfairly treated.
2
Echoing JorA, it's not the point why he was convicted but why Liang was convicted but other officers who committed much more serious actions were not even indicted. He was a scapegoat. Period.
2
What eats at me is that a poorly trained rookie was put in the position of policing dark stairwells in the projects. Of course he was scared. He had no idea what he was facing or how to deal with it.
Is it only on TV that rookies are always paired with a seasoned veteran?
The culpability here clearly rests with NYPD for putting an inadequately trained officer in a position which he was clearly not at all ready to face.
And then sold him out to keep the heat off of the department.
This can't be any good for morale within the department. And as angry as the family is, surely they can see that this was an accident.
And now a man's career and a chunk of his life is ruined, his name forever sullied. He'll go to his grave knowing that in a moment of panic he flinched, and killed an innocent man.
How in the name of decency is that not enough punishment?
Is it only on TV that rookies are always paired with a seasoned veteran?
The culpability here clearly rests with NYPD for putting an inadequately trained officer in a position which he was clearly not at all ready to face.
And then sold him out to keep the heat off of the department.
This can't be any good for morale within the department. And as angry as the family is, surely they can see that this was an accident.
And now a man's career and a chunk of his life is ruined, his name forever sullied. He'll go to his grave knowing that in a moment of panic he flinched, and killed an innocent man.
How in the name of decency is that not enough punishment?
78
All true. But, please wait and see what his sentence actually turns out to be. He can be sentenced up to 15 years in jail. I believe he will get a scant fraction of that. Guilt and punishment are hardly the same thing.
2
He did have a partner who did not discharge his weapon. Some will cling to any conspiracy theory to justify their misplaced support for the police.
What would your opinion be if the victim was your child? The officer's action was gross negligence. While the victim laid dying, the shooter contacted his union and did not think to call 911 or administer cpr.
The victim's name is not sullied. His life was taken needlessly.
We are always anxious to lay blame at other people's feet but is never willing to take responsibilities for our own actions.
The police department should also be held responsible for many egregious behaviour of many officers, poor training of officers and unjust treatment of citizens.
The victim's name is not sullied. His life was taken needlessly.
We are always anxious to lay blame at other people's feet but is never willing to take responsibilities for our own actions.
The police department should also be held responsible for many egregious behaviour of many officers, poor training of officers and unjust treatment of citizens.
3
It was just the bullet to the wall, and instead of killing the black, it is also possible that the bullet would kill the officer. It is not something he could decide! God knows why after the bullet hit the wall, it was bounced back and killed the black.
Don't try to deny it, it is just a case of racism. Because Asians are nice, and maybe too nice, they are ignored in most cases. Democracy and justice is simply a lie. When the black are asking for justice, they mean justice for the black.
I really don't know what to say. The Squeaky wheel gets the oil! This is the never-changing truth!
Maybe I should move back to Hong Kong or move to Singapore, where at least my taxes are for the right use.
Don't try to deny it, it is just a case of racism. Because Asians are nice, and maybe too nice, they are ignored in most cases. Democracy and justice is simply a lie. When the black are asking for justice, they mean justice for the black.
I really don't know what to say. The Squeaky wheel gets the oil! This is the never-changing truth!
Maybe I should move back to Hong Kong or move to Singapore, where at least my taxes are for the right use.
23
Before moving back to Hong Kong, you might just want to learn what the legal standards are for manslaughter. (Hint: It's not the same as murder.) It will be a lot less expensive.
4
It seems that the the overall expectation is that killing of unarmed black men by police is acceptable and no one can be held accountable. This cop wasn't used as a scapegoat. He is an incompetent cop. Don't forget, he didn't even know how to shoot a gun properly plus he refused to perform CPR on the victim. Ask him why. Notice in your statement you refer to the victim as "the black" Asians aren't nice; they just know how to play the race game well.
Until the Big Brains design a Phaser with Stun we are all stuck with humans White, Black, Yellow or Green making the decisions in dark, scary, cramped stairwells in caves of steel and glass. How do police departments train their officers to run into the fire rather than run and hide? Police departments train their officers in mock exercises and field training and putting rookies with veterans who have done the task successfully a thousand times. Finger off the trigger. Don't point a weapon at anything you don't intend to kill. Finger off the trigger. Weapon holstered until there is a recognizable threat. Finger off the trigger. Telling rookie police officer about sympathetic muscle reflex is not the same as training a rookie Not to yank open a door in a scary stairwell with a weapon drawn and a finger on the trigger. There was no decision to fire the weapon. There was a decision to draw the weapon while clearing a stairwell. There was No decision to pull the trigger. There was improper firearms handling and sympathetic muscle reflex while manipulating the opening of a door in a dark, scary, cramped stairwell in a cement and steel cave. Finger Off the trigger. The weak and unarmed and innocent are depending on your training as a police officer to keep them safe while you go into those dark, scary places where bad things happen. Finger off the trigger.
8
Putting rookies in higher crime rate areas in NYC is like letting first year medical residents run an ICU, or relying on first year associates audit valuation in a business acquisition. When things go really wrong, NYPD fired the rookie. Hospitals and Big 4 accounting firms have malpractice insurance. NYPD has tax money. As tax payers, we should ask for someone high up in NYPD to be accountable for failing to sufficiently mitigate this risk. We should demand changes in culture and system of NYPD.
39
How can this rookie cop, poorly trained and incompetently supervised, be convicted, but Daniel Pantaleo, who was an experienced officer and should have known better, is free and still a member of NYPD after he killed Eric Garner with an illegal chokehold, a death that the medical examiner ruled a homicide? And the ineffectual prosecutor in the Garner case, Dan Donovan, was sent to Congress by the witless voters of Staten Island? Both deaths involved cops killing people who posed absolutely no threat. Like the killers of Tamir Rice, police seem to be scared of their own shadows. Shouldn't they be trained not to panic and kill at random? What's the difference between these feckless cops and anybody just pulled off the street and given a NYPD badge, uniform and gun?
Why hasn't the Times followed up on the Garner mess? Is Bratton STILL trying to decide what to do with Pantaleo? Be a real newspaper and get some answers.
Why hasn't the Times followed up on the Garner mess? Is Bratton STILL trying to decide what to do with Pantaleo? Be a real newspaper and get some answers.
33
Actually, the Times reported on the fact that a Federal Grand Jury is presently investigating the Garner case. The difference between this prosecution and the Garner case? Staten Island. Period.
5
I really don't understand the Asian communities point. Indeed if he were white he may have gotten off, but that would make him no less guilty. The fact is his gun should have never left its holster.
As a Black woman if the situation was reversed i would expect the same outcome
As a Black woman if the situation was reversed i would expect the same outcome
15
The point is officer Liang is not treated fairly and he is used as an escape goat. So many people in the Asian community felt the verdict is unjust.
However, he did cause the death of another and he should be held accountable.
However, he did cause the death of another and he should be held accountable.
And you wouldn't get that outcome with white cops regardless of what you expect and that's the point. You will march. Sharpton will march with you, you. The NAACP will arrive on the scene. Its investigation may show culpable murder on the part of the cop or cops. You will see the victim demonized, you will see internal investigations galore, you will see delays, no release of information for months or days, you will hear evidence to favor the cop or cops if they are white you will see them say the dash camera wasn't right, the body camera didn't work, the body camera's images didn't tell the whole story, they were grainy, the day was rainy, the body camera wasn't on, was gone because the victim took it or grabbed it, that without the audio to back up the visual evidence no one can be sure what passed--and then, the cop or cops walk. That's the point. No one is saying this cop should walk. One is saying--where was that kind of activity on behalf of this cop? Where is the rush to prove him right? Where is the police fraternity? Where is the legerdemain, the brotherhood of lies and the subterfuge for this cop? It is loud by virtue of its absence. It is reserved for whites.
1
We demand EQUAL justice for all! We see clear and blatant injustice when Peter Liang, the Asian cop got sentenced, while ALL white cops were set free!
2
The disturbing thing here is that various groups only bother to protest a perceived injustice when it happens to them. When it happens to someone else, you don't hear a peep.
17
When the Academy Award reflects zero Asian for decades, you did not hear a peep. When US universities remove Asians from affirmative action protection, you did not hear a peep. When cops in Northern Virginia shot an Asian woman to death because she was holding a pizza cutter, you did not hear a peep. When an Oklahoma white cop literally paralyzed a visiting Indian father (who was just checking out flowers during his morning walk) by picking him up and slamming him on the sidewalk simply because he could not answer questions in English, you did not hear a peep. When presidential candidates pay almost zero attention to Asian American community, you did not hear a peep.
How about you get off your high horse and tell us Asians precisely under what condition we are allowed to let off a peep? Or we are simply expected to keep our mouth shut because the freedom of expression does not extend to us, because as you mentioned, that would just be too "disturbing"?
How about you get off your high horse and tell us Asians precisely under what condition we are allowed to let off a peep? Or we are simply expected to keep our mouth shut because the freedom of expression does not extend to us, because as you mentioned, that would just be too "disturbing"?
25
As an African-American, I admit feeling sad for the Chinese-American community because I believe that they are victims of the "white supremacy/anti-black" based culture in the US. They hear the bigotry against us and many can't help but to think that we are savages, less than human. Who wouldn't, given how the media portrays African-Americans and our current standing? I lived in China for two months and I saw outward racism against me because I am black. It was very, very hurtful. There are many, many people in the Asian-American (Korean, Chinese, and Indians) community who are just as racially biased against blacks as whites. Racism against blacks is a chief American export and consumed in great qualities domestically! It is ingrained and it works like an infectious disease because we do not talk about its causes and our anti-black history--ignorance prevails. But, we all pay for it and I hope this horrible incident will give us more motivation to eliminate white supremacy and racism from our American culture. We must respect each other and make this country work for us all. We are all Americans. I hope this is the lesson learned.
24
Asians play the passive, smart game every day and quietly practice their intense hatred towards black. We are aware of it and most of us deal with them accordingly. Despite the contradictory relationship with whites, if it wasn't for decent white people we would be worse off in terms of jobs, education and living conditions. Life is not lived in black and white as we know.
1
My first thought when I read the veredict: "Anyone but a white policeman". There is clearly no comparison between a bullet that ricochets in the dark, and a child being shot 16 times, or a grandmother being shot by police simply because she was close to a suspect. This conviction is a further travesty of real justice.
23
Sorry people. I can!t generalize like most of the readers and say if he was white he would not been convicted. That to me is reverse racisim. This was clearly a rookie cop afraid and not trained enough on how to police a high crime area. The problem we have now occuring in the US is that any act against certain races is automatically called a racist act. You yell fire enough times when there is no fire then the next time there is a fire who is going to belive you
9
One of the factors to consider as when comparing this case to those such as the Eric Garner and Tamir Rice killings, where the officers involved were not indicted, is the diligence, or lack thereof, of the District Attorney presenting the case. I don't know if this is the first case of its type that Kenneth Thompson's office has prosecuted during his tenure as Kings County District Attorney, but I believe his actions, particularly his willingness to seek a measure of justice for individuals who have been wrongly convicted and imprisoned, demonstrate a level of integrity and courage that we do not see in the behavior of many DA's especially when it comes to prosecuting police officers.
5
The guy was obviously scared to death of his surroundings and had no business attempting to police that particular area. When you carry a gun, you have the responsibility to NOT shoot someone who doesn't deserve to get shot. If you DO, you go to jail.
It doesn't matter what race the victim was. It doesn't matter what race the cop was. A father died of two children was killed by a cop with an itchy trigger finger. People. They're just People.
It doesn't matter what race the victim was. It doesn't matter what race the cop was. A father died of two children was killed by a cop with an itchy trigger finger. People. They're just People.
5
A white cop would have have been convicted as seen by similar trials all over the country. Period.
3
Exactly the narrative that white cops get off, is simply no longer true. Cops are given a certain leeway, you can't expect that police officers will be asked to go into dangerous situations and deal with incredibly fast moving situations without mistakes happening. They do, and cops are given the benefit of the doubt. However, willful negligence needs to be punished as does intentional, unjustifiable killing. I believe it is being addressed. Is this case the best example, I don't know. He shouldn't be a cop, his partner shouldn't be a cop, the city will pay millions, but jail I don't know. Sure the family of the victim needs justice. Here, in that moment, the victim was innocent, the shot uninetional, the immediate reaction by the two cops, criminal in the fact that they failed to assist by any means, thus they should and were fired. The recklessness of the act was accounted for. Look at the facts, cops DO NOT go out to kill blacks, sure there are bad cops, black and white but there is not a conspiracy out there. There is a bias, black communities are sometimes more violent, thus some officers police these communities harshly and, perhaps, too aggressively. That needs to change, but so does a whole lot. I hope there is a wake up call for everyone, the police and the community. No one has addressed the fact that why does a cop feel the need to have his gun out in a project. So much needs to change in all sides, we need to all work together and stop the racism lies.
I find it disturbing that there seems to be zero empathy for a man who lost his life and his grieving family. Regardless of how, when ,and why the bullet arrived to fatally wound Mr. Gurley the facts point out it never should have happened. Regardless of his ethnicity the officer cannot justify discharge of his weapon and will now face the consequences. I hope now that police abuses are under Intense scrutiny the verdicts will trend toward justice for the victims based on the facts of the case(s) and not because they are one thing or another.
14
It was an accident, a tragic accident, and not anything else. The verdict is because of Black Lives Matter. At another time he would be quickly be deemed innocent of all charges.
16
This was clearly an accident. He did not intentionally try and murder anyone. He was a scared rookie. But all those other cases where white cops intentionally shot and murdered blacks walk free. Living in America is terribly unjust for some.
16
Right. No intent. He was convicted because he was reckless.
4
It was a mistake not an accident; just like running a red light and killing a family of four is not an accident.
That's why he was charged with manslaughter and not murder.
That's why he was charged with manslaughter and not murder.
I can certainly understand the sentiments some have about the conviction of Peter Liang when other officers - often white officers - are acquitted or never charged. The fact remains Liang did cause the death of an unarmed person committing no crime. The truly egregious behavior was providing no assistance or calling for medical assistance. The same is true of his partner - Shaun Landau - who also did not assist or call for an ambulance.
It is fair and just Peter Liang is held criminally responsible for his actions and inactions; it is unjust Officer Landau is not. Going forward I hope law enforcement officers who kill unarmed people of any race will not escape justice.
It is fair and just Peter Liang is held criminally responsible for his actions and inactions; it is unjust Officer Landau is not. Going forward I hope law enforcement officers who kill unarmed people of any race will not escape justice.
6
For all of Officer Liang's supporters in the Asian Community calling the crime just an "accident," it seems strange to me how willing they are to overlook that the officer called his union rep, fearing for his job, after fatally wounding Akai Gurley -- not emergency medical services. Nor did he attempt to help Mr. Gurley, according to reports. This was not a man who should ever have been policing in any community.
3
If he were white, he would not have been arrested let alone prosecuted.
It does not matter the crime was white collar or street crime, the pattern has repeated many times in the past decade.
Think about it: who got prosecuted in the aftermath of the Financial Crisis?
It does not matter the crime was white collar or street crime, the pattern has repeated many times in the past decade.
Think about it: who got prosecuted in the aftermath of the Financial Crisis?
10
Surely, Asians must know that much of their "most favored status," or "model minority" ranking, is due to the perception that they are passive and nonthreatening to the white majority.
That said, the verdict was a just one. It's only sad and frustrating that white officers who commit these horrendous crimes do not face a similar fate.
That said, the verdict was a just one. It's only sad and frustrating that white officers who commit these horrendous crimes do not face a similar fate.
11
Only in America can the conviction of a police officer be seen as racial bias in the justice system over the cold dead body of an innocent black man shot while living his life.
7
You're correct. That shows the state of problems in the justice system and race relations in this country as a whole. Everyone is responsible for trying to improve it, including you and I.
In Los Angeles, California, a Black officer's indictment is being pursued by the Chief of Police (Charlie Beck). It's the first time any police agency reviews a video tape of an officer involved shooting and determines the officer should be charged - 5 hours after seeing the video of the incident.
There are far worse and more convincing evidence on video tape regarding other non-Black officers that this Chief claimed would take an in-depth investigation that could take up to a year or more before he would have all the facts about those incidents.
It isn't right to enter into any building where people could be with a loaded gun and your finger on the trigger. Especially in the dark. That was reckless and that, while maybe being a mistake, is exactly what this officer was convicted for. Not because he isn't white, but because he made a 'preventable' mistake.
His mistake made the victim's death an "involuntary" act. But it shouldn't have happened at all. He recklessly, under the notion that he was in a high crime area and had a right to protect himself, but without considering safety procedures to prevent an accidental death of an Innocent person... and don't forget that instead of being concerned about the injured man, he was focused on 'his job status'.
The jury did what they were supposed to do, NOT WHAT THEY WANTED TO DO.
My prayers to the victim's family, God bless their souls, and my prayers for the officer and his family, for the judge to have empathy.
There are far worse and more convincing evidence on video tape regarding other non-Black officers that this Chief claimed would take an in-depth investigation that could take up to a year or more before he would have all the facts about those incidents.
It isn't right to enter into any building where people could be with a loaded gun and your finger on the trigger. Especially in the dark. That was reckless and that, while maybe being a mistake, is exactly what this officer was convicted for. Not because he isn't white, but because he made a 'preventable' mistake.
His mistake made the victim's death an "involuntary" act. But it shouldn't have happened at all. He recklessly, under the notion that he was in a high crime area and had a right to protect himself, but without considering safety procedures to prevent an accidental death of an Innocent person... and don't forget that instead of being concerned about the injured man, he was focused on 'his job status'.
The jury did what they were supposed to do, NOT WHAT THEY WANTED TO DO.
My prayers to the victim's family, God bless their souls, and my prayers for the officer and his family, for the judge to have empathy.
3
Why do they have to make an example of a Chinese?
Because he's Chinese.
It will never be a breeze for the minorities
in the USA.
The white officers kill with impunity
and they walk
the police fraternity rallies
to their side
and talks up a storm
to get them extricated
from any harm,
how many white men went to jail
for the global mayhem,
the fraud and the rot
they visited
on the world's economy?
Count on your fingers--cipher.
The prison industry thrives,
It has even been privatized,
The minorities are ripe
for keeping it humming and alive.
Because he's Chinese.
It will never be a breeze for the minorities
in the USA.
The white officers kill with impunity
and they walk
the police fraternity rallies
to their side
and talks up a storm
to get them extricated
from any harm,
how many white men went to jail
for the global mayhem,
the fraud and the rot
they visited
on the world's economy?
Count on your fingers--cipher.
The prison industry thrives,
It has even been privatized,
The minorities are ripe
for keeping it humming and alive.
3
This article disgusts me. Liang isnt a 'scapegoat.' No one 'threw him under the bus.' He chose to be an officer. And he killed a man. A completely innocent man. And while that man was dying, he did NOTHING to help. Even now, Liang takes no responsibility for what he did. What does any of that have to do with color? He shouldnt get a free pass just because he was wearing blue at the time. Liang was negligent and he killed a man. There needs to be some punishment for that. No one else in society would get away with killing a man and saying 'oops' after. I hope Liang never ever touches a firearm again. Civilian Lives Matter.
10
And how about this much passion against white cops who do this everyday and impunity and internal investigations, the brotherhood of lies and false evidence never bringing them to justice?
9
This is an area where interest groups and ethnicity overlap. As Mr. Lin says, no one is coming out. This is significant. Perhaps if the police officer were of another underrepresented, recently arrived white ethnic group, (Croatian for example) the verdict would be similar.
3
The whole liberal establishment has an extreme bias against Asians. Consider the Met art show about Chinese fashion. It turned many sacred Asian religious symbols into mere decorations of clothing.
8
Officer Liang received extremely poor legal representation. As a member of the PBA Union he was provided with EXPERIENCED attorneys (at NO FINANCIAL cost to him.) Instead, Officer Liang opted to secure the services of INEXPERIENCED attorneys ( both of whom were retired NYC Police Dept ranking officers with very little trial history. ) Officer Liang's fate rested on his actions after his gun discharged, specifically NOT ASSISTING the victim. His attorneys by prior employment and success would never attack the NYPD directly, for its lack of training and supervision.
10
I read about two African American officers who were indicted within 72 hours for murder in Louisiana for shooting into a car and killing a little boy, who was white. Is it more acceptable to hold minority officers accountable than white officers? Just asking. Why did it only take 72 hours to indict those two officers? Why can't all police officers be held to those same standards?
http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/06/us/louisiana-child-shooting-officers-arres...
http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/06/us/louisiana-child-shooting-officers-arres...
6
First things first. Gurley’s death is tragic; the black have suffered from discrimination; his mom and relatives have all the right to ask for severe punishment.
Second, Liang deserves punishment, because he did not act professionally, but it would be too much to put him in jail. We hire our police to maintain law and order. While they should not be above the law, allowance should be made for their dangerous situation. Liang is a rookie, and was patrolling one of the most dangerous places in the city. It was pitch dark, and suddenly he heard noise. He did not even aim at anything, and the gun misfired. He might not provide sufficient help, which was unfortunate but understandable. How many of us have experienced such shock and tragedy?
If Liang is unlucky this time, we expect all police in similar situations to be indicted in the future. For the stability and justice of the country, I hope that the verdict will be overturned; if not, he will be placed under probation. Judge or jury should not think in the short run, but should consider our nation’s long-term future. Being reasonable is very important for a country like America. We do not demand a pound of flesh. Forgiveness begets forgiveness, while vindictiveness begets vindictiveness.
Liang and Gurley are new immigrants: one from China, one from St. Thomas. Should our nation always look at tragedies through the lens of racial discrimination at a time when our president is African-American?
Second, Liang deserves punishment, because he did not act professionally, but it would be too much to put him in jail. We hire our police to maintain law and order. While they should not be above the law, allowance should be made for their dangerous situation. Liang is a rookie, and was patrolling one of the most dangerous places in the city. It was pitch dark, and suddenly he heard noise. He did not even aim at anything, and the gun misfired. He might not provide sufficient help, which was unfortunate but understandable. How many of us have experienced such shock and tragedy?
If Liang is unlucky this time, we expect all police in similar situations to be indicted in the future. For the stability and justice of the country, I hope that the verdict will be overturned; if not, he will be placed under probation. Judge or jury should not think in the short run, but should consider our nation’s long-term future. Being reasonable is very important for a country like America. We do not demand a pound of flesh. Forgiveness begets forgiveness, while vindictiveness begets vindictiveness.
Liang and Gurley are new immigrants: one from China, one from St. Thomas. Should our nation always look at tragedies through the lens of racial discrimination at a time when our president is African-American?
5
The same day the verdict went down, two cops were shot in a project stairwell. More than just Officer Liang and his fired partner is at stake here. Of course Liang was a scapegoat. Remember him every time a cop is shot.
15
He's holding a loaded pistol when he opens the door to the stairwell. Why? This isn't an active crime scene with combatants on the other side of the door. This is a residence and the people that live there have a right not to be prejudged and not to be put at risk by those hired to protect them. You draw your weapon to shoot it. He should have been holding a flashlight, not a gun.
5
[[“In the wake of unfortunately so many deaths of unarmed black men, some cops gotta hang."]]
I'm sure if you check with Liu he'll tell you he meant “In the wake of unfortunately so many deaths of unarmed black men, some cop has gotta hang.” A cop, not multiple cops.
[[“The sentiment in the Asian community is: It’s easier to hang an Asian, because Asians, they don’t speak up.”]]
He makes it sound like some random "Asian" had been dragged out of his home and lynched. That's pretty loose and irresponsible language coming from a politician.
[[“If you’re a group that doesn’t have a voice, a political voice, you will be mistreated,” added Mr. Lin, who plans to organize a protest over the verdict on Sunday.]]
Again, Liang is a cop first and Asian second. Is Mr. Lin saying that the police don't have a political voice in the city?
If Liang had shot an unarmed Chinese man, where would the "Asian" community stand then?
I'm sure if you check with Liu he'll tell you he meant “In the wake of unfortunately so many deaths of unarmed black men, some cop has gotta hang.” A cop, not multiple cops.
[[“The sentiment in the Asian community is: It’s easier to hang an Asian, because Asians, they don’t speak up.”]]
He makes it sound like some random "Asian" had been dragged out of his home and lynched. That's pretty loose and irresponsible language coming from a politician.
[[“If you’re a group that doesn’t have a voice, a political voice, you will be mistreated,” added Mr. Lin, who plans to organize a protest over the verdict on Sunday.]]
Again, Liang is a cop first and Asian second. Is Mr. Lin saying that the police don't have a political voice in the city?
If Liang had shot an unarmed Chinese man, where would the "Asian" community stand then?
3
What is with some of these comments? That it is "tragic" but just an "accident", Liang didn't "mean" it. Do any of you understand what second-degree manslaughter in NY means? It applies when the one person (Liang) acts "recklessly" in causing someone else's (Gurley) death. A cop firing his gun into the dark for no reason is not reckless? Do we expect so little of our police?
This isn't a murder case or even first-degree manslaughter. Intent or premeditation is not an issue.
And also not mentioned by these commentators is the complete lack of help by Liang and his now fired (white) partner after Gurley was shot. Or was that an "accident" as well?
This isn't a murder case or even first-degree manslaughter. Intent or premeditation is not an issue.
And also not mentioned by these commentators is the complete lack of help by Liang and his now fired (white) partner after Gurley was shot. Or was that an "accident" as well?
8
Blatant case of the ongoing racism against east Asian Americans who are continually beaten into the ground, all the while unnoticed by others of color or the white majority. Liang needs new lawyers, his are a joke! How can they say it has nothing to do with race? Where did they go to law school? A retrial is definitely called for, with a new set of attorneys.
9
If you are going to take a job that has a risk of killing someone (policeman, bus driver, automotive engineer, etc.) you have to understand that you will be held accountable if the worst happens. Unless the particular accident has nothing to do with your own mistake (faulty brakes in the bus you were driving, perhaps), you will be charged with manslaughter. Manslaughter does not require intent, it is perfectly applicable to "honest mistakes" that happen to cause someone to die.
In this case I sympathize with the officer, and 15 years seems a bit harsh. Also I agree that many white policeman getting off without punishment makes it see as if race was a factor.
But still it is not right to imply that he should get away without punishment. The victim did not deserve to die, and that it a harm that cannot be undone.
If the responsibility of being a police officer is too much, choose a safer job.
In this case I sympathize with the officer, and 15 years seems a bit harsh. Also I agree that many white policeman getting off without punishment makes it see as if race was a factor.
But still it is not right to imply that he should get away without punishment. The victim did not deserve to die, and that it a harm that cannot be undone.
If the responsibility of being a police officer is too much, choose a safer job.
19
The officer is facing 15 years. That is the penalty for the most serious form of manslaughter. That crime requires extreme recklessness, which is comparable to causing death while driving drunk. The jury is instructed that it must find flagrantly reckless conduct.
Bruce I suspect you are not familiar with what happens over and over in the US: white policemen kill Black men and don't even make it past the Grand Jury process to trial -- even if the act was caught on film. But easily, in a case that is not caught on camera, an Asian American policeman is indicted, sent for trial, and found guilty. And moreover, not an experienced officer, but a rookie in his first year on the job. I am white and I think this young man (guilty or not guilty) was scapegoated by the District Attorney's office and by the police union, a kind of gentlemens agreement.
6
"Make it seem as if race was a factor?" Race is clearly a factor. When so many white police officers killed black people, they are either not prosecuted or not convicted. When a Chinese American officer's accidental firing ricocheted off the wall and killed a victim, he goes to jail. This is a blatant case of racism in our judicial system. Your ending sentence of "If the responsibility of being a police officer is too much, choose a safer job" is so cavalier. Being a police officer performing such vertical patrol is a dangerous job, where officers have previously been killed. Liang was a rookie officer scared of his wits. Now he is heading to jail, where it is definitely not safe for him.
2
Sometimes, when police kill an unarmed black man, it is homicide. Sometimes it's perfectly justified. Since Ferguson, every such shooting across the country has been front page news. And every juror at a trial in such a shooting knows that the media attention suggests these shootings are criminal even when they are not. Jurors generally have not heard of the particular case they are considering. But they all know the controversial fact pattern. Because every juror has preconceived notions in these cases, no jury is fair and impartial.
22
Billy Budd of the 21st Century...or maybe A Bridge Too Far..or Billy Jack???
1
The only chance for justice in this case will be if the Judge mitigates the unfair conviction with a compassionate and lenient sentence. But still the officer's life will be destroyed. The horrible death of a person does not justify the unjustified conviction of another.
7
Ridiculous. This was negligence, an accident. The guy was a scapegoat.
8
A couple of the jurors spoke out and believe Peter Liang was not entirely truthful about having his finger on the trigger. These jurors also said that it takes 11 pound of force or so to pull the trigger. Why don't we put these jurors in the same exact scenario, in the pink houses in the middle of the night in the dark staircase, and see whether these blase jurors would get spooked out of their mind if something in the dark came towards them. It's very easy to sip a pina colada in the comfort of a well lit jury room and practice pulling a trigger, it's an entirely different scenario when patrolling the most dangerous part of New York City late in the night. Also, how many Asian jurors were there anyway?
10
There were no Asian jurors. Mostly white a few blacks. What did you expect?
2
Black criminals in the city often pick out Asian people for their violent outbursts because they often don't report a crime.
This poor man is a scapegoat. A horrible accident occurred in that stairwell but there's no indication of malice.
This poor man is a scapegoat. A horrible accident occurred in that stairwell but there's no indication of malice.
11
I would like to know the racial make-up of the grand jury that issued the original indictment against Officer Liang. That would be interesting to know. Because the reason why the officer who killed Eric Garner was not tried was because the grand jury refused to issue an indictment in that case. I found that totally odd considering that there was a tape showing what occurred. It was an action so accidental that the grand jury in the Eric Garner case didn't indict. Yet, in this case, the action was not unequivocally accidental, so the grand jury did indict and Officer Liang's case went to jury trial.
The bottleneck point in these police cases is what occurs at the grand jury phase of the trial. These should be scrutinized to give a fairer shake to all policemen who are charged with the murder, accidental or otherwise, of poor black men.
The bottleneck point in these police cases is what occurs at the grand jury phase of the trial. These should be scrutinized to give a fairer shake to all policemen who are charged with the murder, accidental or otherwise, of poor black men.
1
It was a mostly white jury with a few blacks.
3
The Chinese police officer is of course being thrown under the bus for Eric Garner and others, but it should be remembered that the highest ranking officer at the scene during the takedown of Eric Garner was an African American female. The NY Times never brought that out even while all the race hucksters were talking about racism in the NYPD.
9
Come on! Liang was a rookie cop who was apparently *not* given required or sufficient training. That's on the record. There have been many murders in stairwells in the neighborhoods that Liang was patrolling. He made a tragic *mistake*; that mistake was an *accident*. A man was killed - *tragic*.
That said, up to 15 years for an *accident*. And, I don't care what color the skin of the victim was; this was *clearly* an accident.
The city shuold pay a large settlement to the victim's family;Liang should lose his job, but sending Liang to jail - for an *accident* that resulted from inexperience and poor training? Give me a break!
That said, up to 15 years for an *accident*. And, I don't care what color the skin of the victim was; this was *clearly* an accident.
The city shuold pay a large settlement to the victim's family;Liang should lose his job, but sending Liang to jail - for an *accident* that resulted from inexperience and poor training? Give me a break!
10
I believe that this police officer is being made the fall guy for the racial climate in the city and is absolutely being scapegoated. I think that both the decision to bring this case to trial and the verdict were disgraceful.
Police Officer Liang is a sacrificial lamb to help De Blasio's reelection campaign, at least among some segments of the population. As a 69 year old lifelong New Yorker, I can say that I am not surprised by this whole fiasco, but I am sadly astonished!
Police Officer Liang is a sacrificial lamb to help De Blasio's reelection campaign, at least among some segments of the population. As a 69 year old lifelong New Yorker, I can say that I am not surprised by this whole fiasco, but I am sadly astonished!
7
I feel like the Asian people on this one, he is being scapegoated. If he had been a white cop things would not have gone this way. Race should not have entered the equation, but shame on the judicial system for giving this man fair trail. I'm terribly dismayed by this decision. There has to be a better way. What a travesty of justice.
9
The real estate agent was right: if this had been a black or hispanic officer, there would have been way more community support. The NYPD and the DA needed one sacrificial cop, and an Asian officer was the perfect set-up. You wouldn't want to indict an Italian or Irish American, much less a black or hispanic. The article is right: Asians don't fight back, don't have violent demonstrations in front of city hall; they're too busy working. So they're the ones who take the heat for an accident in one of New York's filthy & decrepit public housing projects.
10
From what I understand, murder is when you intentionally kill someone; manslaughter is when you recklessly but unintentionally kill someone, which is what Liang did. You can't just go about discharging your weapon in the dark because you're scared, and then refuse to take responsibility if it kills someone. Yes a white cop would have unfairly and atrociously escaped a conviction, but that doesn't mean Liang didn't deserve to be convicted. No one should get away with this, and progress will be made when white cops can't get away with it either, not if Asians get to get away with it if white people can.
2
In my view, it's not an injustice that Officer Liang was charged and convicted. Rather, it is an injustice that ALL cops aren't charged and placed on trial when "accidental" shootings or other illegal apprehension tactics are applied.
6
A police officer who uses an illegal chokehold avoids trial, another who kills a man in a tragic accident is convicted of a crime he obviously didn't commit. I'm sickened by the fact that a worthy cause that I have long believed in -- consequences for brutal and irresponsible acts by police officers -- has been turned into an ugly witch hunt, even as officers who did abuse their position walk free.
4
Assuming it was justice to indict and convict Officer Liang for his role in the killing of Mr. Gurley, how is it justice that the officers who assaulted and killed Eric Garner, under at least as incriminating circumstances, with video to back it up, NOT brought to trial?
People have a right to ask this question. Of course, they will never get an answer.
People have a right to ask this question. Of course, they will never get an answer.
2
I agree this case is very much motivated. And had it been a white officer, perhaps the support from the law enforcement community would have been different. The fact is, a jury convicted an officer of the law for failing to do his duty; protect the public. Justice is served however it seems biased (and it is) in our times. The question if not why this instance is unjust. The question is why aren't more officers held accountable.
I just hope the judge in sentencing acknowledges the challenges these young officers face in their daily lives on duty.
I just hope the judge in sentencing acknowledges the challenges these young officers face in their daily lives on duty.
5
Think of all the ethnicities that this news outlet forgot to get the opinions of.
How can a news article possibly be considered thorough if it hasn't broken down the population into every ethnicity and reported on the reaction of each one of them?
Remember — we're never just human beings! We must necessarily be viewed by our ethnic backgrounds.
How can a news article possibly be considered thorough if it hasn't broken down the population into every ethnicity and reported on the reaction of each one of them?
Remember — we're never just human beings! We must necessarily be viewed by our ethnic backgrounds.
1
“People never look at us as Americans.”
I was born and raised in NYC but have to contend with the fact that most people will view me as the perpetual outsider, a creature of curiosity and of exotic origin; everyday of my life. I don't belong here, and should be grateful that I am even tolerated as a second class citizen.
I am not neither 'white' enough for the mainstream nor am counted as a minority. All that is left is an 'easy' target, one that is safe to ridicule; and the best scapegoat is the one who can't fight back.
I was born and raised in NYC but have to contend with the fact that most people will view me as the perpetual outsider, a creature of curiosity and of exotic origin; everyday of my life. I don't belong here, and should be grateful that I am even tolerated as a second class citizen.
I am not neither 'white' enough for the mainstream nor am counted as a minority. All that is left is an 'easy' target, one that is safe to ridicule; and the best scapegoat is the one who can't fight back.
7
Robert E Brown is the worst kind of racist: he doesn't know he is racist, and he doesn't understand what racism means. Racism is not deliberate or conscious. The jury convicted the officer because they were comfortable with the idea that an Asian cop could do something bad or sloppy. Left to themselves, would they have thought the same of a white cop? Probably not. That's racism.
Secondly, we don't know the racial composition of the jury, but it is very important. A predominantly black jury is likely to be hostile towards Asians, and vice-versa. There's much stronger racism between different minorities than between the majority and any given minority.
Secondly, we don't know the racial composition of the jury, but it is very important. A predominantly black jury is likely to be hostile towards Asians, and vice-versa. There's much stronger racism between different minorities than between the majority and any given minority.
Sigh, there is an incredible stink to this. You have a white cop on camera using a vicious, illegal chokehold on a man and he walks. Still working, and now this.
This situation is glaring, and it reeks, and it helps no one.
This situation is glaring, and it reeks, and it helps no one.
5
Peter Liang was unfairly made a scapegoat for all the white police officers in previous shootings who did not even get indicted. Firing a bullet that hit a wall first before ricocheting and hitting Gurley demonstrates that it was an accident. No shot was ever fired directly at the victim. This particular case was an accident and everyone knows that in their heart. It is a shame that the legal system can punish an easy target minority to placate another group of minority. This injustice does nothing towards improving police minority relations, only to ruin the life of a young man caught in an unfortunate tragic accident and stunningly unfair politics.
5
Case 1: White officer (or men) Daniel Pantaleo is caught on camera, actually killing someone and using aggressive force and not listening to the victim's pleas for air. No indictment, complete innocence, riots begin and a whole nationwide debate ensues. White man is free and innocent.
Case 2: Chinese man in a building where 2 officers were recently shot, panics, shoots in the dark, bullet bounces, kills an innocent man. Gets indicted, sent to jail. No media attention, silencing.
Both did not care so much about victim. But the Liang looked more a case of ignorance and malpractice than ill intent. You punish but you don't put murder charges on a doctor for a mistake. It appeared to me that Liang committed a grave mistake compared to Pantaleo.
I'm Asian-American. Normally, I wouldn't care about the conviction or this incident at all. I have no problems that Liang was sentenced and that justice was served. What maddens me and should everyone is that this case is juxtapositioned with Pantaleo. Clearly, something is wrong here. If you claim both were accidents NYPD, why are they not facing similar punishments? The Chinese person is punished, the white (multitudes of whom) are left free to continue to hurt/kill more innocents and are not held responsible. Something is seriously wrong. Asians need to speak up and demand equal trials, equal application of the law. The verdict of a case shouldn't be different because of race.
Case 2: Chinese man in a building where 2 officers were recently shot, panics, shoots in the dark, bullet bounces, kills an innocent man. Gets indicted, sent to jail. No media attention, silencing.
Both did not care so much about victim. But the Liang looked more a case of ignorance and malpractice than ill intent. You punish but you don't put murder charges on a doctor for a mistake. It appeared to me that Liang committed a grave mistake compared to Pantaleo.
I'm Asian-American. Normally, I wouldn't care about the conviction or this incident at all. I have no problems that Liang was sentenced and that justice was served. What maddens me and should everyone is that this case is juxtapositioned with Pantaleo. Clearly, something is wrong here. If you claim both were accidents NYPD, why are they not facing similar punishments? The Chinese person is punished, the white (multitudes of whom) are left free to continue to hurt/kill more innocents and are not held responsible. Something is seriously wrong. Asians need to speak up and demand equal trials, equal application of the law. The verdict of a case shouldn't be different because of race.
6
You have to be my age and still believe in the tooth fairy if you think this was not racially biased.
5
White officer purposely chokes a man; hampering victim's breath, which we did see, escape charge(s) for man's death.
Asian officer is charged and convicted after he fires his gun - which we did not see, and aimless bullet strikes and kills innocent man.
You do the math?
Asian officer is charged and convicted after he fires his gun - which we did not see, and aimless bullet strikes and kills innocent man.
You do the math?
6
The message from officer Liang's conviction is two folds: First, if you are an Asian, don't join Police force. The Police will not stand behind you because you are not white. Second, the Police officer should not patrol those projects, the residents prefer to be left alone so they can shoot and kill each other freely.
5
Liang shouldn't be a cop and he shouldn't have been convicted of manslaughter. You can't have nervous police out there whose instinct is to squeeze the trigger when he's startled. On the other hand, this was clearly an accident.
2
While I join those that feel Officer Liang was scapegoated, the many voices in the Asian community and here in the comments pushing for a White officers conviction is just as biased and hateful as what they see happening against one of their own. I'm hearing these people say that it would be fair to scapegoat a White person. How cruel is that? You lose all credibility to your arguments of being victimized because of your race, when you have no remorse about victimizing another person because of his race. Think about it. You just prove yourself to be just as hateful as the people you feel are victimizing you.
5
Quite a bit has been made of the fact that the young officer did not immediately provide assistance to the victim. Here was a kid who was scared out of his wits one minute and in total shock over what had occurred moments later.
The gun had accidentally discharged, the bullet ricocheted, and then struck the gentleman in the hallway below. There was no malice......there was no intent to cause harm. It was a tragic incident pure and simple.
Clearly this young officer was not prepared nor was he adequately trained to deal with this kind of challenging environment. He should relinquish his badge, turn in his gun, and be removed from the Force immediately.
But to convict him of manslaughter and face a long prison term is totally out of bounds.
This will send another chilling message to all those in Blue..................It just ain't worth it anymore.
The gun had accidentally discharged, the bullet ricocheted, and then struck the gentleman in the hallway below. There was no malice......there was no intent to cause harm. It was a tragic incident pure and simple.
Clearly this young officer was not prepared nor was he adequately trained to deal with this kind of challenging environment. He should relinquish his badge, turn in his gun, and be removed from the Force immediately.
But to convict him of manslaughter and face a long prison term is totally out of bounds.
This will send another chilling message to all those in Blue..................It just ain't worth it anymore.
9
There is nothing that anyone can tell me that will change my mind that the NYPD threw Mr. Liang to the wolves because he is Asian. This betrayal by his "brothers in blue" would never have happened if Peter Liang were white. The officers in Eric Garner's death behaved with indifference to life in the face of the fact that Mr. Garner was begging for his life: "I can't breathe". Peter Liang's actions, however tragic, were without malice or depraved indifference. It was an accident. He shot one bullet which ricocheted off the wall and hit Akai Gurley. Amadou Diallo was gunned down by dozens of bullets. Peter Liang and his partner, both rookies, were out on patrol without any senior officer supervision. Their training in CPR was a 2 minute demonstration in the academy. Yes, police officers should be held accountable for their actions. Unfortunately, because of past egregious actions by white police officers that got off scott free, Peter Liang is being thrown under the bus in the name of politics. If the NYPD, city, the DA and the grand jury had done the right thing in the cases of Eric Garner, Sean Bell, Ramarley Graham, Kimani Gray, perhaps the case of Akai Gurley would have had a different more sympathetic and sober conclusion. The powers that be offered up a human sacrifice to shut up the critics. This guilty verdict is not justice. It's a gross miscarriage of justice because the city, the mayor, and the police department have learned NOTHING from this sad case.
8
Bullet ricocheting off a concrete wall is an accident, not manslaughter.
This episode shows that Asians need to get much more politically active. Hunkering down, working hard and minding ones own business only gets you so far in this Balkanized country.
This episode shows that Asians need to get much more politically active. Hunkering down, working hard and minding ones own business only gets you so far in this Balkanized country.
8
As an Asian American I am dismayed at this verdict. Liang wouldn't have been convicted if he was white or black. There is no justice in this, only racism.
4
White privelage is alive and well in NYC. Liang should have claimed that the victim was reaching towards his waistband.
3
It is quirky that the first person in a long time to be convicted is Asian, and frankly what he did was not as bad as some. But just because others have gotten off free does not mean he should. Hundreds of Asian, White, Latino, and even Black cops need to be in jail.
6
The verdict seems unjust.
3
With all the video-documented cases of police shooting or strangling unarmed people out there right now, THIS is the one they decide to prosecute? A ricocheted bullet in a pitch-dark, chamber-of-horrors apartment building? I guess Asians have to wait a little bit longer before their lives matter as much as others'.
6
He was damned from the start, the perfect sacrificial lamb. The system gets to claim it offers justice using an officer whose race will unlikely trigger race riots. The judge in this case is also likely to give a stiff sentence to demonstrate his lack of bias. Let's see what happens with the Garner case. If this was manslaughter, that one has to be first degree murder, or something stinks.
7
Sounds like a old time lynching. Having a Asian judge past sentence on another Asian. Some similarities to the Rosenbergs who were convicted of spying and they had a Jewish Judge past sentence. When you have Bernie a presidential candidate screaming that police MUST pay for killing black people the conviction comes as no surprise. If I was a cop I'd role up my windows and let the people fend for themselves. Why risk your life or career when you have zero support from the politicians or brass.
4
I don't understand these cries of "scapegoating." The officer was convicted of manslaughter by a jury. Are people seriously accusing the jury of deliberately sending an innocent man to prison?
5
As an Asian-American I don't have any objections to Mr. Liang's verdict. I object to the startling lack of convictions when it comes to white police officers who commit similar crimes.
8
Unfortunately in this sad incident, the race victim-card could be played both ways. No winners here.
2
Asians need an equivalent of Al Sharpton or Rush Limbaugh. Someone to throw a tantrum and get media attention, regardless of the merits of the argument.
4
White cops unload 41 bullets into an unarmed man, Amadou Diallo. All are found not guilty. Two white cops start a confrontation with, and essentially gangbang Eric Garner, no charges made. Two white cops roll up to a park where 12 year old Tamir Rice is holding a toy gun, and shoot him within seconds. No charges. Eric Zimmerman, packing heat, picks a fight with a kid in a hoodie and then shoots him. He is free to terrorize his wife with the gun collection he is allowed to still have. An Asian cop accidentally discharges a single bullet in an unlit staircase and it RICOCHETS and hits a man in the heart. Fifteen years, police department immediately fire him. There's a problem when the only time a cop is held accountable is the only time he wasn't even targeting the victim, and the only time he doesn't look WHITE.
6
So Eric Garners attachers go free after choking the man to death. I appears Liang is a scapegoat.
3
Finally, an incident that actually is about racism, the racism of the jury.
3
You don't even charge that murderer Pantaleo, but you convict this guy for what seems to be just a dumb mistake? Fire him, yes, but this is scapegoating. You're willing to throw the Asian to the dogs, but the white cop who goes out of his way to choke a man to death over cigarettes goes free?
5
Irish or Sicilian, German or Scots, Welsh or English, African or Chinese -- it's long past time to call armed and badly trained cops to account, and stsrt convicting them in the criminal courts for killing unarmed men, women and children.
5
Of course, Officer Liang is a scapegoat! Read your history books folks, prior to the Immigration and Nationalization Act of 1965, 'Murica was as racist to Asians as any other minority. The legacies of pitting one against the other continues unabated......Trump anyone? Tragic any way you look at it. As a Latino boomer, with all I have seen in my own lifetime, I WOULD never take up arms for the master. Never, no way, no how......the jig is up! The emperor has no clothes.
3
Where is Giuliani on this verdict? Why has he not spoken up as he seems to do in so many cases where white officers are involved?
My condolences to Mr. Gurley's daughters and family.
My condolences to Mr. Gurley's daughters and family.
3
So, who pays for this young black man's life. What did he ever do to be gunned down. Does his life have any value to the Asians complaining about the verdict. Whatever you want to say, no black man (cop or not) can go into Chinatown, negligently wave a gun around and kill an Asian without the community demanding his head. This officer discharged his weapon very negligently causing a young man to die way before his time. Let's not forget the very important saying, every time you take one life you destroy a generation.
5
“If he’s a black officer, I guarantee you Al Sharpton will come out,” he said. “If he’s Hispanic, all the congressmen will come out. But no, he’s a Chinese, so no one is coming out.”
You bet. Asians get criticized for succeeding and are a minority, but not one of the "protected" minorities, like Latinos and Blacks. So every time an Asian can be "taken down," like this verdict, they are. Disgusting, but unfortunately, reality.
You bet. Asians get criticized for succeeding and are a minority, but not one of the "protected" minorities, like Latinos and Blacks. So every time an Asian can be "taken down," like this verdict, they are. Disgusting, but unfortunately, reality.
6
Of course. After hundreds of blacks shot by white police all over the country, they finally hang it on the one Asian. Wow.. Who said this country is now all fair and square?
3
I hope the Asian Americans will become more active in politics to protect their interests. The real losers from this verdict will be the people who live in the housing projects, where now any policeman would have to be out of his mind to venture into the stairwells.
17
A bullet comes off a wall and a policeman is guilty? You got to be kidding me !!While policeman all around the country are going scot free for deliberately killing unarmed people, it is really a mockery of justice that Officer Liang is guilty. It definitely must be an easier decision for someone to press the guilty button when the accused is not "like" me. Also, it must be easier to press the guilty button living in a big city than to do so in when living in a smaller place. If I were living in another city, much smaller than NYC, I'd be very scared of the local police department to call one of them guilty, lest they come after me !
24
I talked with my roommate, a White cop who works in Brooklyn. He said to the effect that Liang is a scapegoat. If he were white, he might not have been put on trial in the first place. If black, many would have protested daily against the prosecution. Asians are silent minority, the worse combination you can have in a democracy that is defined identity politics. I will let you judge what was said.
35
You speculate that black people would have protested if the officer who killed Akai Gurley had been black and had been prosecuted and convicted. I don't think so.
The Gurley family deserved to be treated with respect and deserved to see that the officer was, regardless of race, held accountable for his gross negligence that caused unnecessary loss of life.
It's definitely a travesty that Pantaleo and Wilson and other white officers have not yet been held accountable. I hope that they will be eventually and that any officer, regardless of race, is held to the highest standards and accountability from here on out. That's what people should be demanding, not that Liang be accorded special exemption from being accountable.
The Gurley family deserved to be treated with respect and deserved to see that the officer was, regardless of race, held accountable for his gross negligence that caused unnecessary loss of life.
It's definitely a travesty that Pantaleo and Wilson and other white officers have not yet been held accountable. I hope that they will be eventually and that any officer, regardless of race, is held to the highest standards and accountability from here on out. That's what people should be demanding, not that Liang be accorded special exemption from being accountable.
4
Susan,
Thanks for your thoughtful comments. But I have two minor problems. First, I reported what my cop roommate told me. What was mentioned was not my speculation. Second, as you implied, Liang was unlucky, compared with others. So he did not ask for any preferential treatment, but asked to be treated like other cops.
Race should not be the issue, but unfortunately, it is the problem in all these recent cases.
Thanks for your thoughtful comments. But I have two minor problems. First, I reported what my cop roommate told me. What was mentioned was not my speculation. Second, as you implied, Liang was unlucky, compared with others. So he did not ask for any preferential treatment, but asked to be treated like other cops.
Race should not be the issue, but unfortunately, it is the problem in all these recent cases.
2
This is a travesty and a tragedy. My heart goes out to the victim's family, and I've seen many stories of lives taken by stray bullets. But I'm certain that if Liang had been white he would not have been convicted and this would be seen for what it was: a terrible tragedy but an accident. Even if he wasn't supposed to have been in that stairwell or had his gun drawn, those things speak to poor training and inexperience much more than criminal negligence. Liang is absolutely a scapegoat in this case. I'm not saying he shouldn't have to pay consequences for having caused an accidental death, but a lengthy prison sentence would simply be unjust, and an obvious ploy to appease those (including me) enraged by the deaths of Garner, Rice, Brown, et al. I want *those* cops convicted; punishing Liang does *nothing* to assuage my anger about the truly unjust exonerations of those who *murdered* unarmed black men/women.
46
This incident makes me glad I don't live in NYC anymore.
The whole essence of manslaughter is that the death was unintentional. If intentional, it would be murder.
An "accident" can be manslaughter, depending on the circumstances. If I fire a gun up a stairwell, with no reason that I can articulate other than stairwells are scary, and kill somebody, it's manslaughter.
An "accident" can be manslaughter, depending on the circumstances. If I fire a gun up a stairwell, with no reason that I can articulate other than stairwells are scary, and kill somebody, it's manslaughter.
10
Do you convict a soldier of manslaughter after a "friendly fire" accident? As a rookie police offer who was on probation, Liang was scared out of his wits doing the vertical search, and fired at nothing in the stairwell. Do you actually believe that he would be convicted if he was white?
2
PHS, Perhaps he might not have been convicted were he black either. But, the injustice in this case may go back further. Would he have been indicted were he black or white? And what a t were the motives of the DA pushing so hard for indictment? Partially to make an example of someone?
This is not to say that there is no fault here. But who is at fault? The NYPD for putting two rookies together in that stairwell, one of the most dangerous jobs when patrolling public housing? The. NYHA which does not adequately maintain public housing and possibly vandals who break lights and elevators ? Police brass who, despite whatever guidelines actually exist for such patrols, know well and good that crops do have their guns out on these dangerous efforts where more than one has been ambushed or killed? Those who choose firearms that are issued to the NYPD which other commenters have said do not have safeties? What kinds of guns do other departments use? Academy instructors who do not ensure cops have some skills like CPR?
Liang'partner who was granted immunity to testify? What were the motives? To ensure conviction in a doubtful case or get to the truth? It seems lthe partner was the one delaying Liang from calling in an accidental discharge. He did not pull the trigger bu did not render aid, leaving it to Mr. Gurley's friend to do so using only directions from a 911 operator. He loses a job but walks.
Lots of blame to go around but it does not all belong to Liang.
This is not to say that there is no fault here. But who is at fault? The NYPD for putting two rookies together in that stairwell, one of the most dangerous jobs when patrolling public housing? The. NYHA which does not adequately maintain public housing and possibly vandals who break lights and elevators ? Police brass who, despite whatever guidelines actually exist for such patrols, know well and good that crops do have their guns out on these dangerous efforts where more than one has been ambushed or killed? Those who choose firearms that are issued to the NYPD which other commenters have said do not have safeties? What kinds of guns do other departments use? Academy instructors who do not ensure cops have some skills like CPR?
Liang'partner who was granted immunity to testify? What were the motives? To ensure conviction in a doubtful case or get to the truth? It seems lthe partner was the one delaying Liang from calling in an accidental discharge. He did not pull the trigger bu did not render aid, leaving it to Mr. Gurley's friend to do so using only directions from a 911 operator. He loses a job but walks.
Lots of blame to go around but it does not all belong to Liang.
2
It's very difficult to reconcile the result of this case with the Garner case. Liang's actions, if recklessly careless, were clearly accidental(no one can aim a ricochet, even American Sniper). His conduct after the incident may have appeared callous, but pales in comparison to the officers who smothered Garner to death, then stood around laughing and congratulating themselves, while discouraging the medical staff from rendering aid.
To speak legally, I don't see how Liang acted with malice, while it's difficult to conceive of the Staten Island officer's conduct as anything short of intentional infliction of respiratory distress, whether death was intentional or coincidental.
The two cases clearly demonstrate that our "justice system" lacks consistency and is more about aggressive pursuit of convictions than an overriding fairness. Basically, the Liang case provided prosecutors with exactly the elements they needed to obtain conviction, and to them, context was incidental. One can't help but wonder what the outcome of the Garner case would be, pursued with a similar level of enthusiasm.
To speak legally, I don't see how Liang acted with malice, while it's difficult to conceive of the Staten Island officer's conduct as anything short of intentional infliction of respiratory distress, whether death was intentional or coincidental.
The two cases clearly demonstrate that our "justice system" lacks consistency and is more about aggressive pursuit of convictions than an overriding fairness. Basically, the Liang case provided prosecutors with exactly the elements they needed to obtain conviction, and to them, context was incidental. One can't help but wonder what the outcome of the Garner case would be, pursued with a similar level of enthusiasm.
37
On one hand it is good to see the police being held accountable. Had a civilian done the same thing they could also expect some recriminations.
On the other hand we see so many white officers brutally killing unarmed people, many times with malice and nothing ever happens to them. It is mind boggling.
This officer did not have any malice, he was simply scared and made a mistake. Unfortunately for him he is not white, the magical get out of jail color.
On the other hand we see so many white officers brutally killing unarmed people, many times with malice and nothing ever happens to them. It is mind boggling.
This officer did not have any malice, he was simply scared and made a mistake. Unfortunately for him he is not white, the magical get out of jail color.
47
From my admittedly light reading on this tragic case, I have the impression that the fault is really with the police department that hired and trained Mr. Liang and sent him into this situation.
Because it's my impression he was not suited by temperament or training to the situation he found himself in. He shouldn't have been there in the first place.
Because it's my impression he was not suited by temperament or training to the situation he found himself in. He shouldn't have been there in the first place.
23
I agree with this narrative: Let's convict the Asian cop to silence the critics who say police officers are never indicted. He will be our example. Besides, he's worth less than a white person and no one is going to make a big deal because Asians are so quiet, don't protest, and don't cause trouble.
58
If Officer Liang were white, he would not have been convicted. As the deaths of Tamir Rice, Eric Garner, and others show, the white policemen responsible for those murders were exonerated.
Office Liang is being made a scapegoat because he is Asian - - this conviction is racism in action. (I say this as a "white" Jewish woman.)
Office Liang is being made a scapegoat because he is Asian - - this conviction is racism in action. (I say this as a "white" Jewish woman.)
60
Tamir Rice was shot because the officer thought Tamir had a real gun and was about to shoot him. The fake gun looked real from a distance. The cop had to make a very quick decision, and in such a scenario it is difficult to accuse him of murder.
A correction. Jews are not "White", they are "Caucasian". Look at your birth certificate.
1
Nope. A Caucasian is a person from the Caucasus, for example Stalin. It is incorrect and misleading to refer to those of Northern European descent as 'Caucasian' and the sooner we all drop this tiresome habit, the better.
2
For the rookie officer, who was still on probation, his downfall was that he actually told the truth. And he told the truth because more experienced officers and the police union did not come to his defense.
The all powerful police union, usually extremely and aggressively protective of their officer, was all but AWOL in this case. In the past, union officials would immediately shelter the officers from their supervisors, internal investigators, or prosecutors, coaching them on their defense and hiring the best lawyers before the officers could make a single statement on anything to anyone.
The unions would then have brought so much pressure on the DA, he would never have dared to indict. The unions would have brought a wall of blue uniformed officers to attend every trial so that the judge (who needs to be appointed or run for their seat) and jury would be impressed...or intimidated.
None of these practices were ethical, indeed, they were most likely criminal to coach an officer to lie, but they were systematically applied to one of their own.
Did the police union and more experienced cops look at Officer Liang and see a sacrificial lamb? Yes.
Was it because of his race or because he was still on probation? Both.
Is this the dawn of a new practice by the police union to let officers tell the truth to internal investigators and the DA? LOL.
The all powerful police union, usually extremely and aggressively protective of their officer, was all but AWOL in this case. In the past, union officials would immediately shelter the officers from their supervisors, internal investigators, or prosecutors, coaching them on their defense and hiring the best lawyers before the officers could make a single statement on anything to anyone.
The unions would then have brought so much pressure on the DA, he would never have dared to indict. The unions would have brought a wall of blue uniformed officers to attend every trial so that the judge (who needs to be appointed or run for their seat) and jury would be impressed...or intimidated.
None of these practices were ethical, indeed, they were most likely criminal to coach an officer to lie, but they were systematically applied to one of their own.
Did the police union and more experienced cops look at Officer Liang and see a sacrificial lamb? Yes.
Was it because of his race or because he was still on probation? Both.
Is this the dawn of a new practice by the police union to let officers tell the truth to internal investigators and the DA? LOL.
116
This police union-centric theory you articulate as to why why an indictment was not issued in the Eric Garner case, despite the strong video evidence, makes much more sense to me. This is what leads me to believe that, when it comes to issuing indictments against police officers, the county DA should never be involved. There should be a special committee of disinterested judges and DAs (from a county jurisdiction geographically distant from the county jurisdiction in question) that should convene the grand jury and then issue indictments. That's the only way we can clip this perversion of justice orchestrated by the DAs and the police union.
1
Officer Liang never gave statements in a department inquiry prior to being arrested. Nor in his case would he have been represented by a PBA representative. He would have had an attorney. Officers who are being arrested can't be interrogated by their superiors. The have Miranda rights just like anybody else. A supervisor compelling an officer to make statements could taint an investigation. The statements would be inadmissible.
The PBA is an extremely diverse organization with a large minority membership. If there was a preception that the leadership was not forceful in defending the rights of minority officers they would have great difficulty at election time.
The PBA is an extremely diverse organization with a large minority membership. If there was a preception that the leadership was not forceful in defending the rights of minority officers they would have great difficulty at election time.
Its funny that I came across this article. The first thing I thought when I heard about the verdict was that if Liang was white, he would have been off on paid administrative leave and quietly let go to pursue employment in another jurisdiction. Of course I was not there but it is not like he was trying to kill someone. It is frustrating how no one cares about asians because we are the "model minority" despite the fact we still face a lot of racism and are still considered outsiders despite the fact that many of us have lived here for over a 100 years or were born here. I look at it as the ghosts of the white man spending most of the 20th century fighting asians (Japanese, Koreans, Vietnamese, and now the Chinese but in a cold war type of way).
29
The judge is Asian American.
The district attorney is African American.
Blame the white man. You can't go wrong.
The district attorney is African American.
Blame the white man. You can't go wrong.
Funny, I thought if this was a white cop he would have been convicted in the press and the black community much more quickly and decisively.
Just goes to show how perspectives are shaded and why "All Lives Matter."
Just goes to show how perspectives are shaded and why "All Lives Matter."
1
I hope this acts as a catalyst for the Asian community to say enough is enough. It is clear that the deep support of law enforcement which has appeared in the past few years only extends to white and perhaps those with powerful voices. The Asian community is already reeling from being discriminated in college admissions - learning that professional respect in civil professions in 2016 does not extend to them is a terrible blow. There is much talk in these presidential primaries and elections around getting the black and latino vote, and no articles about courting the Asian vote. Unless the Asian community finds its voice, and a strategy to be heard, it will continue to be hit with all sorts of sudden discrimination incidents that will rip the illusion of their American Dream and success stories as a group apart.
39
I don't see racial bias, and this article does not show any, either statistically or by evidence of it in this specific case. No one can remove his gun from his holster and fire it into a stairwell, whether intentionally or not, and expect that the state will not hold him liable. The word "accident" doesn't come close to describing what the officer did. He wrongly killed another human being. There cannot, in a sane society, be a free pass for doing such a thing.
13
it's perfectly understandable and reasonable to be prepared when one is walking into a dangerous environment. If you don't think a dark stairwell in a housing project building with known drug activities by gun-weilsing dealers is a dangerous place, you maybe a little delusional. If I had a gun and I had to use such a stairwell, I'd unbolster it and be safe by taking precaution, policy or politically correct or not.
2
Many other victims were wrongly and intentionally killed, but those white officers walked free. Liang made a tragic mistake by firing his gun when scared and he was convicted for murder. You are blind not to see racism in this.
1
Officer panteleo didn't get an indictment after putting an extremely risky maneuver whom many will say a banned chokehold, that eventually resulted in eric garner's death. Liang fired his shot within a dark alley whose bullet hit off the wall before hitting a person he never saw or interacted with, but yet he gets the indictment and conviction? Talk about bias. The actual bias here is to not recognize bias.
3
It is justice, that a cop was finally held accountable for a crime committed while on duty. It underscores the point that criminal cops can and do exist, and that they should be treated like any criminals, a point that is and has always been strongly opposed by the law enforcement leadership in NYC and the justice system that supports them.
Perhaps Liang's conviction was the first sign of a change of legal culture in NYC, following the video exposé of police misconduct against blacks nationwide. But the coincidence of the start of the new culture with the fact that the first officer convicted is non-white is glaring and really, really suspicious. It becomes totally incredible when it's contrasted to the fact that a grand jury could not even find probable cause that a crime was committed by Daniel Pantaleo, who, spontaneously and without provocation, attacked and strangled Eric Garner to death, and who today walks free.
This is yet another instance of something bigger than racial bias against a non-white police officer. It's a sign of the huge and persistent disparities in legal privilege among the races in America. And so the outrage here is not that a non-white cop was convicted of an accidental crime. It's that a white cop was set free for a calculated, cold-blooded one.
Perhaps Liang's conviction was the first sign of a change of legal culture in NYC, following the video exposé of police misconduct against blacks nationwide. But the coincidence of the start of the new culture with the fact that the first officer convicted is non-white is glaring and really, really suspicious. It becomes totally incredible when it's contrasted to the fact that a grand jury could not even find probable cause that a crime was committed by Daniel Pantaleo, who, spontaneously and without provocation, attacked and strangled Eric Garner to death, and who today walks free.
This is yet another instance of something bigger than racial bias against a non-white police officer. It's a sign of the huge and persistent disparities in legal privilege among the races in America. And so the outrage here is not that a non-white cop was convicted of an accidental crime. It's that a white cop was set free for a calculated, cold-blooded one.
28
I can't agree with you more. This tragedy was clearly an accident. He got scared and fired the his gun at no one. The bullet ricocheted off the wall the killed the victim. While all the white officers in the previous cases of police fatal shooting was either not brought to trial or not convicted, Liang's accidental firing became the first convicted case. He became the scapegoat for the anger and rage that have been building in people.
5
This is one of the most significant examples of racial bias, in a court proceeding, that I have ever seen. It's striking that Officer Liang was convicted, given that the bullet ricocheted, when I can't recall a single case wherein a white police officer was convicted for (intentionally) shooting an unarmed civilian.
Terrible use of Officer Liang as a scapegoat. I hope that this course is appealed, and/or Justice Chun is lenient with his sentencing.
Terrible use of Officer Liang as a scapegoat. I hope that this course is appealed, and/or Justice Chun is lenient with his sentencing.
198
The problem is not that Officer Liang has been held accountable for the killing of Mr. Gurley. The problem is that white officers have not been held accountable.
The solution is to end white supremacy, not to make more police officers unaccountable.
The solution is to end white supremacy, not to make more police officers unaccountable.
2
What you should have advocated, is the conviction of all those other officers who knowingly use excessive force that kill civilians with no justifiable cause. What you should not have advocated, is to let Liang walk, just because so many other white officers walk. None of them, white or otherwise, should have walked, should they be guilty (and a large majority of those exposed in news reports are).
So, yes, that are racial bias, but that does not automatically exempt Liang from what has done, mistake as it might be. In this case, his white partner was immediately fired as well, since he very obviously has failed in his duty and care. Should Liang and his white partner switch position, with the white guy pulling the trigger, I'd think he'll probably have been found guilty as well.
For you to say Liang is made a scapegoat is hardly any justice to the guy he's killed, albeit mistakenly. You should try to look at every case in its merits, rather than always looking at each of them with a colored lens.
So, yes, that are racial bias, but that does not automatically exempt Liang from what has done, mistake as it might be. In this case, his white partner was immediately fired as well, since he very obviously has failed in his duty and care. Should Liang and his white partner switch position, with the white guy pulling the trigger, I'd think he'll probably have been found guilty as well.
For you to say Liang is made a scapegoat is hardly any justice to the guy he's killed, albeit mistakenly. You should try to look at every case in its merits, rather than always looking at each of them with a colored lens.
4
Officer Liang has been thrown to the wolves.
Terrible accidents do sometimes happen, but if there is no intent
then there should be no conviction.
Perhaps what is missing here is a well-deserved condemnation
of a Police Department which cuts corners by devoting just a few minutes' training in CPR. Also, there is little doubt that had Officer Liang been Caucasian, there would definitely have been a great show of support by NYPD leadership and rank and file. Instead, he was abandoned by all but his partner, Officer Landau, who was summarily dismissed today.
Justice has not been served. Injustice has been perpetrated by those eager for revenge.
Terrible accidents do sometimes happen, but if there is no intent
then there should be no conviction.
Perhaps what is missing here is a well-deserved condemnation
of a Police Department which cuts corners by devoting just a few minutes' training in CPR. Also, there is little doubt that had Officer Liang been Caucasian, there would definitely have been a great show of support by NYPD leadership and rank and file. Instead, he was abandoned by all but his partner, Officer Landau, who was summarily dismissed today.
Justice has not been served. Injustice has been perpetrated by those eager for revenge.
67
As an asian-american, I feel frustrated, but for a different reason. It's true that not everyone is cut out to be a cop (much as the same way about soldiers), and Liang, being rookie as he is, is clearly not cut out to be a policeman. I can fully appreciate and comprehend the fear of going into a housing project famed for peril, but if it's part of the job. It's sad that Liang is in such fear of his own life that he has to draw his service weapon while on patrol inside. (Maybe he's watched too much Hollywood movies.) I was particularly dismayed from some of the reports that his initial reaction, apart from the shock, was his exclamation that he's going to lose his job, with little to no regard of the dying man on the ground who was shot by him. Yes, I'm frustrated, not by the verdict (which seems justified), but at how weak and ineffective he has come across.
Liang should have just taken some security guard position, rather than being a policeman. Those are much safer jobs that he might not even need a gun. It's sad that such the young man would do jail time, but considering someone had died by his hand, one can hardly say it's not justice.
For those who tried to interject the issue of race in this argument, I'd say, it's pretty irrelevant. Pray that the families of both the dead and Liang would find some peace and closure.
Liang should have just taken some security guard position, rather than being a policeman. Those are much safer jobs that he might not even need a gun. It's sad that such the young man would do jail time, but considering someone had died by his hand, one can hardly say it's not justice.
For those who tried to interject the issue of race in this argument, I'd say, it's pretty irrelevant. Pray that the families of both the dead and Liang would find some peace and closure.
24
The testimony indicates that Officer Liang was not immediately aware that his bullet had hit Mr Gurley (who had stumbled out of the stairwell) and was looking for his casing and arguing with his partner for a short time before realizing what he had done. This does not excuse the death of Mr Gurley at his hands, but is far from the cartoon of a cop fretting about his job over a dying man.
3
Let me get this straight: An Asian cop, scared out of his wits, fires a shot in a dark stairwell at no visible target and kills an innocent bystander. And the Asian community accuses something or someone of "racism." And then. to compound the offense, neither he nor his partner make any attempt to assist the victim. Now if you want to question the screening procedures which allowed such an obviously unqualified man onto the force, I'm with you all the way. But to object to the verdict of negligent homicide simply because Liang is Asian is ludicrous. If you want equality, you've got it. But that includes a responsibility to acknowledge justice when it is served.
9
In this case, Asians are just following the tactics of BLM: cite racism as the motivation behind an unfavorable outcome for anyone in their community, irrespective of the facts. If it generates sympathetic, favorable coverage for black people (even violent criminals like Michael Brown), why shouldn't Asians give it a shot?
By such standard, many police officers should have been convicted of manslaughter, no? Double standard is the issue at hand
4
Yes, of course they should have been. But getting a handle on police violence has to start somewhere. This man was (in my opinion) correctly found guilty by the jury. Or are you seriously suggesting a morally bizarre tit for tat to the effect that we allow one Asian cop to go free for every three white cops and every two black cops? Once you start excusing crime on the basis of race or a quota system you're opening a Pandora's box of bloodshed.
The troublesome part of this case that was never explained in the press was why office Liang shoot his gun in the stairwell. Were they just doing that for fun, or was their activities that caused these policemen pull their guns out?
1
It's tragic that my taxpayer dollars will go into imprisoning this man, and incendiary that accidents like these are met with imprisonment, instead of other forms of just retribution. That he happens to be Asian man is no accident. He is a perfect scapegoat for the police department, and the tension between the haves and have-nots in this nation. Every once in a while, someone must be put in jail. I can only mutter what everyone else is: "The bullet ricocheted."
25
What they say is 100% true. Asians are expected to be meek, and be silent. Most media coverage about Asians tends to be negative, because they don't speak up. Even PC minded liberal media make fun of Asians, Indians, etc constantly. Commenters pour open hatred on them. And now this case. All those horrendous murders committed by white cops coast to coast, and they finally hang one Asian fall guy cop. What a travesty. The racism in this country stinks.
54
If you want to do anything about it why don't you organize your community so they vote in larger numbers. In America you need to get what you want, no one is going to hand it over to you.
It's envy because Asians come to this country, work hard and educate their children. They are good citizens and wonderful immigrants. This is so sad and tragic.
2
They couldn't wait for an Asian to make a mistake with a gun. OK good boy--OK model citizen--gotcha!
2
I agree 100%. Had this officier been White, he would not have been indicted and a jury would have acquitted him.
It is obvious that Officer Liang is a scapegoat because he is Asian. This was a case of a mistake by the Officer, not an intentional killing.
Afterall, the Grand Jury in Ferguson, MO did not even indict Officer Darren Wilson for shooting Michael Brown. Nor did the Grand Jury indict Officer Daniel Pantaleo for his fatal choke hold of Eric Garner. This is a blatant example of White Privilege since both officers are White.
So much for "Equal Justice Under Law"
It is obvious that Officer Liang is a scapegoat because he is Asian. This was a case of a mistake by the Officer, not an intentional killing.
Afterall, the Grand Jury in Ferguson, MO did not even indict Officer Darren Wilson for shooting Michael Brown. Nor did the Grand Jury indict Officer Daniel Pantaleo for his fatal choke hold of Eric Garner. This is a blatant example of White Privilege since both officers are White.
So much for "Equal Justice Under Law"
86
White officers across the country intentionally shoot unarmed blacks but they don't even get indicted. SMH. Compare this to Eric Garner case. Pantaleo openly did what he was instructed not to do. But he knew he could get away with it. Not only that, it turns out he could get away with it if what he did caused death!
12
You seem to belabor under the mistaken assumption that it's never legal for the police to shoot a civilian who isn't armed with a gun. As for Garner, you have zero evidence that he was intentionally choked to death.
NY police rules require a minimum pull of at least 16 lbs on handguns. This is the highest amount of any police force in the country. In a ride a long with the NY Police the officer we were with complained that the department would not allow him to buy the gun he wanted because it could not be required to have this minimum pull. He in fact complained about the force needed when he had to fire the gun at the range. If you followed the trial each juror tried the hand gun and for them selves what the minimum pull meant. While it may have been an accident it was caused by the officer on the trigger pulling it and not a jostle and for that violation of his training and policy he is criminally liable. But I don't think he should serve much jail time.
11
It's a mistake, no doubt, and a very grave one at that. I don't think it'll ever fly, to have the prosecution pushing for Liang's intentional pulling the trigger.
At the same time, I don't think it serves much to the society by putting Liang away for five years or more because he's clearly remorseful. Perhaps five years probation with maybe 1-2 years mandatory jail term would send the signal, with the hope to serve some justice to the dead.
At the same time, I don't think it serves much to the society by putting Liang away for five years or more because he's clearly remorseful. Perhaps five years probation with maybe 1-2 years mandatory jail term would send the signal, with the hope to serve some justice to the dead.
I can not help but feeling the prosecution is politically motivated and self serving for scoring a much desired point. Justice for the victim, not so much. Easy target, indeed. Wrong place, wrong time, lack of experience and training, yes. Lack of compassion, maybe. But crime? I can only hope the it's not his wrong skin color that did him in.
36
Wrong place, wrong time, sure. But if you're implied Liang commits no crime (which, as a result, another man died by his hand), you're seriously mistaken, color of skin be damned.
There is nothing in this article to suggest that he was convicted because he was Asian. From what I have read on this case he discharged his gun into a hallway that he couldn't see anything in. Therefore he didn't have the imminent danger defense. Also according to the woman who gave the man CPR, and his partner, he was more concerned with finding his spent casing and bullet then helping the man, and on the initial 911 dispatcher call he didn't clarify that he would need an ambulance. This certainly adds up to manslaughter or no officer ever could be charged.
18
How about Tamir rice just being shot for sporting a gun and the officers walking away scot-free. For that matter, the kid in chicago who was even the officers claimed that he might have shot the kid willingly. No way, walk free. But this guy admits and its clear that the bullet ricocheted. O wait, did i mention that in the first two cases like many others, they were white officers. Here its non-white. People can sure add 1+1
1
Liang is just a very poorly trained cop, and very poor at his job. Even if he walks this time, he would have committed other potentially even more grave mistakes further down his police career.
Granted that diversity on the NYPD is important, but to me, it's even more important to have competent cops who can do the job, rather than having an incompetent jobs who are poor on their job but happen to have the same color of my skin.
Granted that diversity on the NYPD is important, but to me, it's even more important to have competent cops who can do the job, rather than having an incompetent jobs who are poor on their job but happen to have the same color of my skin.
4
You might want to see the eric garner video and look at how clueless all the officers were when the heavyset man was dying on the floor. The EMT falsely assumed garner was not near death. So who is to say that Liang and his partner were that depraved to not help Akai when the officers at the garner scene didn't fare no better? Keep in mind, Liang and his partner were rookies at their scene. This can not be said about the officers and EMT at the garner scene.
1
Surprising that he was convicted, given the ambiguity in this case compared to the more clearly egregious ones, like the Garner case. THere's a small number of Asians in the NYPD relative to their proportion in the city, compared to the relative proportional representation of whites as well as other minorities. That, combined with factors cited in the article, makes it more likely there wouldn't be the kind of likely backlash if the officer were non-Asian. Proof that most of the racism that exists today is subtle, and proof that racism exists even for the 'model minority'.
16
Sir, with all due respect similar cases have occurred and you mentioned that no officer ever could be charged if it was not manslaughter. If I recall clearly the manslaughter of Michael brown by a white police officer, officer Wilson, was followed by minimal consequences. The grand jury decided not to indict officer Wilson yet Peter Liang shot a bullet at a wall and somehow received 15 years of jail time.
2
Selena,
Despite initial and erroneous press reports, Michael Brown was charging Officer Wilson and attempted to disarm him. Officer Wilson was defending himself.
Once the mob mentality settled down and frightened witnesses came forward, which may or may not have been reported in the NYT, it was a settled case....no grand jury indictment.
The myth of "hands up, don't shoot" needs to be addressed.
Despite initial and erroneous press reports, Michael Brown was charging Officer Wilson and attempted to disarm him. Officer Wilson was defending himself.
Once the mob mentality settled down and frightened witnesses came forward, which may or may not have been reported in the NYT, it was a settled case....no grand jury indictment.
The myth of "hands up, don't shoot" needs to be addressed.
This conviction is difficult to understand. But if the officer had his weapon out and the rules are you don't have it out and he's not supposed to be in the stairwell, and the guy that's shot is an innocent bystander, then there's a case for manslaughter. This is quite different from something going awry during a resisted lawful arrest where the deceased had a health problem, eg, Eric Garner.
2
What? Like performing said lawful arrest with an unlawful, non-protocol procedure such as a choke hold?
1
The rules are: police officers should not use chokeholds.
1
I am saddened by the tragedy that is now doubled by the guilty verdict. I am praying that the sentencing will be fair and take full account of the mitigating circumstances.
17
The main problem i see is that he had to have his finger on the trigger of the gun and pulled it with a force greater than 11 pounds to have fired his gun. This is gross negligence leading to a death and does deserve punishment. I think the fairest outcome is for the sentence to be at the lower end, 5 years, so with probation he is out by 3 years. A life was lost, a punishment needs to be issued to try to prevent this from happening in the future. As far as the other officers the scenarios are too different, they were actually confronting a threat.
5
Pantaleo, the killer of Eric Garner, was not scared and not confronting a threat. It's clear now, with the prosecution and conviction of Peter Liang, that the policy that protects some officers from accountability and not others is white supremacy.
Officer Liang deserved to be held accountable for his gross negligence that cost a human life. Pantaleo, whose behavior was arguably more egregious than that of Officer Liang -- he personally squeezed the life out of Eric Garner as Mr. Garner pleaded that he could not breathe -- was not indicted or even slapped on the wrist. Notice that the black female sergeant who was present and bears some responsibility for Mr. Garner's death has been disciplined, but the officer who strangled Mr. Garner walks free.
End white supremacy and replace it with police accountability regardless of race.
Officer Liang deserved to be held accountable for his gross negligence that cost a human life. Pantaleo, whose behavior was arguably more egregious than that of Officer Liang -- he personally squeezed the life out of Eric Garner as Mr. Garner pleaded that he could not breathe -- was not indicted or even slapped on the wrist. Notice that the black female sergeant who was present and bears some responsibility for Mr. Garner's death has been disciplined, but the officer who strangled Mr. Garner walks free.
End white supremacy and replace it with police accountability regardless of race.
1
A deeper dig is necessary to unearth who or what led to this unfortunate incident. It seems obvious: Liang pulled the trigger and therefore he is guilty, but anyone getting satisfaction from that "obvious" conclusion is sadly misled.
Why was Liang or any rookie for that matter sent to the nastiest jobs such as patrolling darkened stairwells in known areas of high risk? Is there an entrenched system of making rookies "pay their dues" in order to "graduate" to safer and more desirable / cushy duties? If such a patrol potentially require the use of guns, should a rookie be even dispatched to the job? Was Liang's partner more experienced and would the probability of the shooting been diminished if he had been ahead of Liang? What was Liang's compensation as a rookie and what share of the punishment should he (and indirectly his family) bear? Why was he lone summarily dismissed before trial? More questions need to be asked to make sense of the tragedy.
Putting Liang in jail may appease the cries for justice by some of those impacted by the death of an innocent man but it merely allows a flawed system to carry on by putting a rookie in jail. That is the double tragedy. Jail time is not always the answer.
Why was Liang or any rookie for that matter sent to the nastiest jobs such as patrolling darkened stairwells in known areas of high risk? Is there an entrenched system of making rookies "pay their dues" in order to "graduate" to safer and more desirable / cushy duties? If such a patrol potentially require the use of guns, should a rookie be even dispatched to the job? Was Liang's partner more experienced and would the probability of the shooting been diminished if he had been ahead of Liang? What was Liang's compensation as a rookie and what share of the punishment should he (and indirectly his family) bear? Why was he lone summarily dismissed before trial? More questions need to be asked to make sense of the tragedy.
Putting Liang in jail may appease the cries for justice by some of those impacted by the death of an innocent man but it merely allows a flawed system to carry on by putting a rookie in jail. That is the double tragedy. Jail time is not always the answer.
1
The title says that Asians are dismayed over the verdict, but the only people quoted are Chinese-Americans. As a Japanese-American, I'm also Asian and I have no problem with Officer Liang's conviction.
No every Asian comes from the same background, even though we might look alike to some people.
No every Asian comes from the same background, even though we might look alike to some people.
19
The title said "Many", not "All". One of the reporters is named Chen.
2
yeah, that's such an interesting phenomenon; also like how all Latinos are Mexican, or all whites Anglo Saxon, as if historical and geographic distinctions—Caribbean vs South American vs Central American, all the endless hostilities and prejudices of Europeans vs each other, the prejudices of Chinese vs Koreans vs Japanese—all are forced to the background when talking about Race as color.
1
I absolutely agree the article's conclusion is more generalized than what its evidence suggests. However, if you think a little more about what your last sentence implies, you will see that the very fact "we might look alike" means you, as a Japanese American, are dragged into this fight as an Asian American whether you like it or not.
Suppose when a Japanese American encounters a potentially unfair trial in the future, people aren't going to say. Oh, he/she is Japanese, so he/she must not be a scapegoat! What is the media going to say? My bet is that an article like this one will draw exactly the same conclusion, execpt the interviews will be of Japanese Americans.
So if you don't want Something like this to happen to Japanese Americans in the future, you should do something about it now...
Suppose when a Japanese American encounters a potentially unfair trial in the future, people aren't going to say. Oh, he/she is Japanese, so he/she must not be a scapegoat! What is the media going to say? My bet is that an article like this one will draw exactly the same conclusion, execpt the interviews will be of Japanese Americans.
So if you don't want Something like this to happen to Japanese Americans in the future, you should do something about it now...
3
Whether he was white or black, or as is the case Asian, this was a terrible accident and should not be manslaughter. Our system is making a lot of mistakes and so is our society. Didn't I read how scared this man was? Perhaps teams should have to patrol these staircases. Whatever, he is being accused of too much.
117
I'm not sure what you would be proposing as improvement. Should NYPD send in SWAT teams to do patrols because the place is dangerous? You tell me.
I don't know much about police procedures or scheduling, but I do find it a bit surprising for these two rookies to be sent in together, rather than, say, pairing more experienced cops with the rookies so that they can learn the rope. As it is, Liang and his partner, is like a blind leading the deaf, both handicapped to start with. No wonder they're scared to do that beat.
I don't know much about police procedures or scheduling, but I do find it a bit surprising for these two rookies to be sent in together, rather than, say, pairing more experienced cops with the rookies so that they can learn the rope. As it is, Liang and his partner, is like a blind leading the deaf, both handicapped to start with. No wonder they're scared to do that beat.
2
Very difficult case to judge from a distance, as always. However, from the reporting about what happened, and the fact that the prosecution introduced what were essentially new charges in its concluding statement, this case is anything but clear. And given the context of an intensified awareness of shootings of African Americans and of the overall problem of police violence, it's hard not to suspect that the deck was stacked against Officer Liang--that someone was going to have to pay for the past police violence and killing. It doesn't look like justice. It looks like something much more primitive. But it's very hard to know.
58
This is a terrible tragedy for Mr. Gurley's family but likely an injustice for Officer Liang. Vertical patrols are dangerous--two cops were shot doing such patrols in past weeks. Roofs and stairwells are dangerous for tenants, too.--thus, the need for patrols. Combine that with NYHA neglect and vandalism and you have a perfect storm for tragedy. The NYHA and possibly vandals played a role in this death and should have been on trial too.
Liang was in a unlit stairwell going to a unlit roof. He likely did not use proper procedure in handling his firearm but the discharge was also likely accidental and he did not know anyone was struck initially. But his, and certainly his partner's, failure to render aid is inexcusable. Whether his partner had good CPR skills, he could have helped Mr. Gurley's friend, who after all did CPR folloein only directions from a 911 operator.
The DA pushed hard for an indictment and perhaps was motivated, in part, by a desire to secure recompence not only for Mr. Gurley but for Mr. GarneR. The prosecutor in his closing arguments even stated Officer Liang had intentially shot Mr. Gurley though there was no evidence of this and he did not argue this at trial. So the DA got a conviction of an officer least at fault.
The NYPD has successfully recruited Asians. It is an irony that one-Officer Liu-was killed, and another convicted in a case in which he and his partner did not act properly, but almost certainly did not commit manslaughter.
Liang was in a unlit stairwell going to a unlit roof. He likely did not use proper procedure in handling his firearm but the discharge was also likely accidental and he did not know anyone was struck initially. But his, and certainly his partner's, failure to render aid is inexcusable. Whether his partner had good CPR skills, he could have helped Mr. Gurley's friend, who after all did CPR folloein only directions from a 911 operator.
The DA pushed hard for an indictment and perhaps was motivated, in part, by a desire to secure recompence not only for Mr. Gurley but for Mr. GarneR. The prosecutor in his closing arguments even stated Officer Liang had intentially shot Mr. Gurley though there was no evidence of this and he did not argue this at trial. So the DA got a conviction of an officer least at fault.
The NYPD has successfully recruited Asians. It is an irony that one-Officer Liu-was killed, and another convicted in a case in which he and his partner did not act properly, but almost certainly did not commit manslaughter.
92
Officer Liang falls into the same category as Raj Rajaratnam and Matthew Martoma. Were they guilty? Yes. However, are Indians the longstanding main perpetrators of criminal activity on Wall. St.? Hardly. It's a laughable contortion of logic to believe so. Similarly, few Asian-American officers can be found as consistent and willful culprits involving law enforcement crimes. It is interesting to see the juxtaposition of convicted faces and compare them to the reality, if we are honest, which we all witness daily. Asian-Americans are not the problem in this country. It will take some serious self-reflection on the part of the majority to understand and rectify these insidious issues.
12
Bernie Madoff: white. Jordan Belfort: white. Allen Stanford: white. Jeff Skilling: white. Bernard Ebbers, Martha Stewart, Barry Minkow, Michael Milkin, Bernard Ebbers, all white. Your racial hysteria is unfounded. You're the one making the blanket accusations, so the onus is on you, posselts, to produce the facts. Do you have empirical evidence that Indians in the USA are incarcerated for financial crimes at a greater rate than Caucasians? Are you absolutely certain that when you trot out a name like, say, Dick Fuld, that there isn't an inside trading Indian who should also be in jail? When you play this game, can two or three guilty Indians on Wall St be named for every 20 white people? That is, roughly in proportion to their fractional population?
1
I understand African Americans' frustrations at being targeted by police and having nothing happen when they are harmed by the police, killed, treated badly, and completely agree that the way police departments around the country treat them should be re-evaluated and overhauled, and it seems that this prosecution and conviction of Officer Liang was a first step, but he really doesn't fit the profile of poster child of police brutality or callously indifferent officer, which makes his conviction feel like he was made a sacrificial lamb to pacify African Americans over how the police are conducting their affairs. It's really a tragedy all around, for Mr. Gurley, most of all, of course, but also for Officer Liang.
89
We are not pacified...we know they threw Officer Liang under the bus and whites will continue to disparage, maim, torture and worse, African American citizens.
3
This case is most analogous to the Fruitvale shooting in California. (I think in that case, the officer was white). In both cases, it was clearly an accidental shooting. The question amounts to an issue of recklessness. In this case, waving a gun around in a public area where there is no specific threat strikes me as reckless. In the Fruitvale case, the officer was at least trying to affect an arrest.
The juries made good decisions in both very difficult cases. (Although that didn't stop rioting after the involuntary manslaughter conviction in Oakland, of course).
The juries made good decisions in both very difficult cases. (Although that didn't stop rioting after the involuntary manslaughter conviction in Oakland, of course).
2
While I have some empathy with the frustration of Asian Americans over their historic status in the U.S, I think the critics in this case are way off the mark and need to get a grip. The reluctance to recognize the great harm caused by Officer Liang is nothing less than willful ignorance. It reveals an alarming racism in the inability to value the life of the black victim. The argument that a white cop would have gotten off -- and that Officer Liang should have as well -- is shameful and heartless.
Officer Liang killed a man due to his reckless behavior with a deadly weapon. Moreover he showed callous disregard by fretting over little more than saving his own butt! Would any of the Asian American critics find such behavior acceptable had the shoe been on the other foot; i.e., if a white or black cop had shot down a Chinese American shopkeeper due to negligent action? I think not.
The critics need to discover a sense of common humanity. New York is a complex and diverse city. It's many communities have to find common ground to flourish. it begins by placing as much value on the lives of people in other communities as one one's own.
Officer Liang killed a man due to his reckless behavior with a deadly weapon. Moreover he showed callous disregard by fretting over little more than saving his own butt! Would any of the Asian American critics find such behavior acceptable had the shoe been on the other foot; i.e., if a white or black cop had shot down a Chinese American shopkeeper due to negligent action? I think not.
The critics need to discover a sense of common humanity. New York is a complex and diverse city. It's many communities have to find common ground to flourish. it begins by placing as much value on the lives of people in other communities as one one's own.
29
It is equally, if not more, willful ignorant to disregard the racial angle. That said, no decent person will deny that his conduct was unprofessional, callous, or even punishable. Justice not equally enforced is less than full justice.
1
Why would an asian victim have to be a shop keeper?
1
Thanks for pointing out a part of the debate that most miss. As an Asian American, we get it from both sides. We are easy targets. White people are just more subtle. African Americans are often openly hostile. Had this guy been white, there would have been a hung jury. Easy to tar and feather the token Asian man.
167
I totally agree with the assertion that if Mr Liang were white the outcome would be totally different. A white officer would have never been charged. Officers of color are scapegoats and are sacrificed for public relations.
17
Totally agree. This is so unfair and tragic. I am dismayed at the hypocrisy and the injustice. This was a tragic accident, not manslaughter.
2
"African Americans are often openly hostile." Really? Often? Funny, as an older white guy who has lived in Harlem for over a decade, that is the complete opposite of my experience. Could be your negative bias is what comes across as hostile in your interactions.
One cannot help but wondering what would have happened if he were white? This is one of the very few coverages that look into the Asian perspective, even though the goddess of justice is supposedly blindfold.
117
What if the cop were transgendered? How about if the cop was a woman? or from Mars? Enough with the racial nonsense.
1
From what I've read in the papers it seems like he made a tragic mistake ~ not manslaughter. Compared with all the other terrible crimes that police across the country have been been shown to have committed over the past year this seems much more like a case of bad training/accidental death than manslaughter to me. I might also add that the poor training that many have suspected the NYPD of being guilty of providing it's recruits seems also to have figured in this tragedy. Bottom line is that a bullet discharged from a policeman's revolver that ricochets off a wall and strikes an innocent bystander is terribly tragic and possibly negligent but just doesn't rise to the level of manslaughter in my estimation.
223
GUess what?
That IS the definition of manslaughter - very negligent behavior that causes death
It is more than "I was going 10 mph and my car skidded on the ice and slid and hit someone". It is 'run a red light and hit someone"
One form of manslaughter is doing something that can present a risk to others - and being very very negligent while doing it and the negligence causes the harm
No intent required to make manslaughter
Suggest you go get a law degree before you start claiming what is or is not the legal definition .
What you "think" is dead wrong under the law.
And yeah, I 'm a retire lawyer.
That IS the definition of manslaughter - very negligent behavior that causes death
It is more than "I was going 10 mph and my car skidded on the ice and slid and hit someone". It is 'run a red light and hit someone"
One form of manslaughter is doing something that can present a risk to others - and being very very negligent while doing it and the negligence causes the harm
No intent required to make manslaughter
Suggest you go get a law degree before you start claiming what is or is not the legal definition .
What you "think" is dead wrong under the law.
And yeah, I 'm a retire lawyer.
6
its wasn't a mistake to disregard department rules on having your gun drawn and finger on the trigger. We have his partners testimony as well as the man's girlfriend, and his own words just after he shot the man. No tragic mistake at all. The jury got this one right. Now the Eric Garner case should have had the same outcome.
4
I agree. I wonder why the attorneys couldn't make a compelling case for Criminally Negligent Homicide.