Could the law require that these unlicensed centers post a notice saying that:
"We provide pregnancy counseling. We can say to you whatever we want because of the 1st Amendment, whether it is true or not. Our goal is to guide you away from abortion. We are not licensed by the State of California. The website for licensed centers for pregnancy care and abortion is:_______"
In this way, they tell the truth. They are not being forced to say something that is not true to their goals. And they must post the website address for licensed providers.
"We provide pregnancy counseling. We can say to you whatever we want because of the 1st Amendment, whether it is true or not. Our goal is to guide you away from abortion. We are not licensed by the State of California. The website for licensed centers for pregnancy care and abortion is:_______"
In this way, they tell the truth. They are not being forced to say something that is not true to their goals. And they must post the website address for licensed providers.
3
This has nothing to do with constitutionality. At bottom, refusal
to post information about abortions is about treating women as children
whom these people think shouldn't have information with which to make informed decisions. That is it, pure and simple. If the law says post the information, post it. You can also add your two cents to it--and try to talk women out of abortions. That's your right. But to regard them as not having the right to make their own decisions is beneath contempt. Perhaps they might come to realize that diapers and a car seat are quite insufficient
when weighed against the utterly daunting prospect of raising an unwanted child in poverty.
to post information about abortions is about treating women as children
whom these people think shouldn't have information with which to make informed decisions. That is it, pure and simple. If the law says post the information, post it. You can also add your two cents to it--and try to talk women out of abortions. That's your right. But to regard them as not having the right to make their own decisions is beneath contempt. Perhaps they might come to realize that diapers and a car seat are quite insufficient
when weighed against the utterly daunting prospect of raising an unwanted child in poverty.
4
I am one of the women who fell victim to one of these centers.
Highly stressed facing an unplanned pregnancy due to failed contraception, I sought free advice and support. I was completely unaware that there was a hidden agenda.
The woman who counseled me seemed very nice. Then she spoke of her personal experience of losing her fertility permanently as a result of her abortion and how much she regretted it and losing the chance to have children, which I thought was a strange thing to tell a woman looking for objective advice.
Then I looked at the brochures they gave me. One said that abortion increases breast cancer risk, which I knew to be false. Then I saw one created by Focus on the Family, a known right-wing evangelical organization...
Once home, I ran to the internet and did some digging, and only then discovered the true motivations of these "support" services.
I sat alone on the couch and sobbed. I had never felt so betrayed, and so alone.
There is nothing worse than being lied to and manipulated in your time of greatest need.
These places are despicable and anything that limits their ability to manipulate vulnerable women is a step in the right direction.
Highly stressed facing an unplanned pregnancy due to failed contraception, I sought free advice and support. I was completely unaware that there was a hidden agenda.
The woman who counseled me seemed very nice. Then she spoke of her personal experience of losing her fertility permanently as a result of her abortion and how much she regretted it and losing the chance to have children, which I thought was a strange thing to tell a woman looking for objective advice.
Then I looked at the brochures they gave me. One said that abortion increases breast cancer risk, which I knew to be false. Then I saw one created by Focus on the Family, a known right-wing evangelical organization...
Once home, I ran to the internet and did some digging, and only then discovered the true motivations of these "support" services.
I sat alone on the couch and sobbed. I had never felt so betrayed, and so alone.
There is nothing worse than being lied to and manipulated in your time of greatest need.
These places are despicable and anything that limits their ability to manipulate vulnerable women is a step in the right direction.
26
Were you looking for free advice and support, or were you looking for abortion? Because it seems to me that you were getting advice and support.
4
Inquiring minds, did you have the baby? If so, I'm not sure I see how you were a "victim" of this facility. If not, I'm still not sure how you were a "victim" as you obviously found the information and services you were looking for. Did they portray themselves to comprehensively cover every available option for a pregnant woman equally? Could you not have done then oodles search before visiting the center? Crisis Pregnancy centers that counsel toward abortions have counselors that also share their experiences and their understanding of the medical and emotional impacts of the decisions you faced. And I have heard the personal testimonies from women that chose abortion because the counselors stressed the negative impacts that having a baby would pose to their life, and minimized any long term emotional impacts only to feel that they were "lied" to. And these women talk about the lifetime regrets they live with and their sense of betrayal at a vulnerable time. It's all a matter of perspective, and obviously ones perpective on how highly the life of the unborn should be respected and protected will effect their view on what pregnancy centers of all types should or should not legally be required to discuss. But for the courts it should simply be about whether the government has the right to legally compel certain types of speech from private entities.
5
I happened to walk by the Planned Parenthood facility on Bleeker St. in Manhattan a few moments ago. There were a few people women and men quietly standing across the street carrying signs which read 40 days for life and praying. These are very sincere and caring people. I thanked them for their fine efforts and said I plan to join them during the 40 days for life, a Catholic event but opened to all. A man on his way to this facility told me he was speaking to a woman who wanted to know where PP was and he told her about the pregnancy center nearby. She made an appointment and was very thankful someone cared about her and her baby. Even if one life in the womb can be saved it is a miracle. We need to show these women that we do care about them and their unborn babies. We must prove they are not alone in their time of need. Every life is precious.
5
OK, but the abortion clinics should be mandated to post signs regarding the availability of assistance and counseling from pregnancy crisis center.
5
Secular laws about posting information are everywhere, for many, many businesses and agencies. These places are no different, and should be forced to follow the law, or to close up shop.
1
Hardley, how many of those businesses are legally required to post signs that are antithetical to their business mission and deeply held religious beliefs? The closest I can come to the former is the Surgeon General warning on cigarettes and I can't think of an example of the latter. Can you? These clinics feel deeply that abortion is harmful on several levels. Just because you disagree shouldn't give you the right to use the force of government to compel them to voice/ or post your opinion anymore than they should be able to force Planned Parent to post Pro-life posters and hand out Focus on the Family literature. I live in Alabama, a much moe conservative state than California. Would you be ok if the majority of Alabamans supported and passed a law that required all pregnancy centers to display posters that said, "Choose life. God loves you and your baby" or close up shop? Of course you wouldn't. The First Amendment restricts government from passing a law "abridging the freedom of speech". And SCOTUS has long held under both liberal and conservative justices that government compulsion of a particular speech is clearly an abridgment of individuals freedom of speech.
4
Providing only self-serving, biased information is a violation of doctor-patient ethics in any clinical situation, pregnancy included.
4
they obviously aren't doctors
3
Religious hypocrisy dominates all of the discussions related to abortion rights! I have not seen one opponent to this right who personally commits to cover all the costs related to the unwanted pregnancy, which should include all pre-birth, delivery and post-birth costs, as well as a pre-birth commitment to adopt the unwanted within six months after birth. When this happens where those opposed to abortions take personal responsibility for all of the unwanted costs which include adoptions then maybe they have a case to re-write the current national abortion laws but until that time these hypocrites should back off and avoid further proof of their personal hypocrisy.
1
True what you really need to understand is that it is about punishing the sinner for having sex without intending procreation. Regardless of the blather about pro-life, murder, and the rest it is only about the punishment the woman deserves for having sex without procreation. Once you figure that out it all falls in place. that's why your questions about why they aren't willing to support the child are completely irrelevant to the argument.
1
Are these groups non-profit? Do they get tax advantages?
Since they're so-called "religious" opponents of abortion, my guess is yes. And that you and I are thus supporting them.
We need to get rid of charitable deductions altogether. We should not be forced to fund things that go against our own beliefs. And in the big picture, since so many political entities (PAC junk) are tax advantaged, and since the rich get the biggest deductions, we need to re-think "charity" thing.
Since they're so-called "religious" opponents of abortion, my guess is yes. And that you and I are thus supporting them.
We need to get rid of charitable deductions altogether. We should not be forced to fund things that go against our own beliefs. And in the big picture, since so many political entities (PAC junk) are tax advantaged, and since the rich get the biggest deductions, we need to re-think "charity" thing.
4
These "Pregnancy Counseling Services" seem like the old bait and switch to me. Women come in expecting a free pregnancy test and end up getting convinced, to carry their baby to term even if it may not be the best choice for them.
I doubt if there is any abortion rights advocate in the country who spends time trying to convince women to get an abortion. Imagine the outcry if a shop that billed itself "Pregnancy Counseling Services" immediately began to coerce a young woman into having an abortion the moment she walked in the door.
I doubt if there is any abortion rights advocate in the country who spends time trying to convince women to get an abortion. Imagine the outcry if a shop that billed itself "Pregnancy Counseling Services" immediately began to coerce a young woman into having an abortion the moment she walked in the door.
3
I volunteered for Real Choices Pregnancy Care Center in Boulder, Colorado, for about five years. I can't speak for other crisis pregnancy centers, but I can comment that this organization is full of staff and volunteers who wish to help pregnant women so that they don't feel abortion is their only option in the face of a difficult pregnancy. Instead of protesting outside of an abortion clinic, we wanted to help women bring life into the world and raise healthy babies with community support or give up their babies for adoption if they choose to do so. We did not wish to mislead any women and never suggested that we were a hospital or medical clinic. I am appalled at the articles I am seeing in the NYT and other sources lately that accuse these organizations of being "evil" or misleading because they don't provide abortions. There are more than 700 Planned Parenthood centers in the U.S. according to PP's website. Please don't tell me that it's hard for women to find an abortion center in this country.
5
Hey, let's just keep the abortion information for 'certain' groups, like those that produce too many offspring.
2
I walk by a Planned Parenthood facility every lunch hour and the women who walk into their offices are not exactly jumping for joy. They look like they are the desperate ones who are charged lots of money for services which are free by the pregnancy centers. They find compassion and care at these centers versus PP which just see dollar signs. I would chose the pregnancy centers over PP any day which makes lots of money from abortions. This is scandalous.
3
This seems politically motivated. Does the state not have a means to inform it's citizens on where and how to obtain an abortion? Of course they do. It is an over reach to mandate these clinics post abortion info. Let the state be responsible.
3
Thee First Amendment allows people to make decisions based on their knowledge. Not providing all options, one which is abortion, is unconstitutional.
1
Not providing all options is unconstitutional? Where in the Constitution do you see a mandate to provide all options?
1
Odd how the "pro-lifers" have no First Amendment problem with red-state laws that require abortion providers to make women watch anti-abortion videos before the women can be provided an abortion.
5
The promotion of abstinence and "natural" contraception is to utterly absurd that it could reasonably constitute medical malpractice. That tax-free religions are responsible for this nonsense is simply more proof that their dogma is part of the problem and no solution at all.
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4
There are some claims here that California and other states stopped reporting abortions "back in the 1990s."
That's odd, considering that a) HHS requires the reports, and b) well, this:
https://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/sfaa/california.html
I've come to expect routine lying from "right to life," crusaders, but I must say that I am still surprised by stupid lies that are so easily checked. But of course I shouldn't be, given their latest phony film.
That's odd, considering that a) HHS requires the reports, and b) well, this:
https://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/sfaa/california.html
I've come to expect routine lying from "right to life," crusaders, but I must say that I am still surprised by stupid lies that are so easily checked. But of course I shouldn't be, given their latest phony film.
8
I predict that pro-reproductive rights groups will eventually need to "out" politicians and their families, along with other anti-choicers before these issues are laid to rest. There is an awful lot of hypocrisy around these issues, with some of the most vocal so-called pro-lifers who have benefited from the reproductive rights movement (not just abortion but contraception and even something as non-controversial as hysterectomy).
6
Once again, the leftists in our country show their true colors. Trying to make someone or some organization promote activity that they consider to immoral (and I don't know what else you would call baby killing) impinges on freedom of speech. It is sadly painfully obvious that the left only believes in freedom of speech as long as you agree 100% with them.
5
Ron, this is not a left right issue. Control over our bodies and when we choose to have a family, is our right. The fact that it conflicts with your view is fine, you are not accepting money from the state to provide medical services or distributing inaccurate information to women when they may be most vulnerable. I suggest you read some of the posts by those of us who remember when abortion and contraception was illegal and the reality that women still terminated their pregnancies, albeit often with terrible consequences. Ron from the good part of Illinois...your blanket and all too broad statement about the left speaks only to your ignorance on a subject of importance to most women and many men.
2
Funny, the "left" is asking exactly what you say they don't: freedom of speech ergo post signage of ALL options available to pregnant women and let them decide what's best for themselves, by themselves. Seems you only agree in free speech as long as it signs with your religious rhetoric. How blind!
2
Are abortion clinics compelled by law to post where to go for free prenatal care, birth services, etc? Choices, as it were?
3
Ardath in many cases they are required to do a sonogram and show the pictures to the patient and lie to the patients about the impact of an abortion, but no they aren't required to do something as simple as post signs.
I'll give up the signs if you will give up the intrusions that the southern and midwest states put on the patient.
The state should not be involved in these decisions period.
I'll give up the signs if you will give up the intrusions that the southern and midwest states put on the patient.
The state should not be involved in these decisions period.
2
It is like requiring a church to post signs about where to go to find out how to murder, steal, commit adultery, find the local witch haven, etc. It is like requiring a store to give addresses and phone numbers for their competition. It is appropriate to tell someone they are taking a life before they get an abortion. It is not appropriate to require someone to tell someone how to kill the baby inside them. Science has proved that life begins at conception. The fact that abortion takes a human life is no longer in question.
3
Um, no.
When people go to a church, they have a reasonable idea of what to expect there.
The problem with these "Pregnancy Clinics" is that they masquerade as something they are not: a place to receive information and assistance in the full range of pregnancy (and abortion) options. Having failed to find a workable law which would require the "clinics" to plainly state what they really are, the current law requires them to post information concerning other options - especially those that the person walking in the door was probably looking for in the first place.
When people go to a church, they have a reasonable idea of what to expect there.
The problem with these "Pregnancy Clinics" is that they masquerade as something they are not: a place to receive information and assistance in the full range of pregnancy (and abortion) options. Having failed to find a workable law which would require the "clinics" to plainly state what they really are, the current law requires them to post information concerning other options - especially those that the person walking in the door was probably looking for in the first place.
2
Your logic is flawed. These aren't akin to "promoting the conpetition," unless, of course, you think a woman's choice is a business model instead of a private decision. And abortions are LEGAL;
2
So I assume you're for outlawing fertility clinics?
1
Poor logic in that law. There is a much simpler way to address the issue. Anti abortion clinics must post a sign that states they provide no abortion advice or one identifying them as anti abortion. The others can post a sign that indicates "full-service" or unbiased pregnancy counseling.
It's the equivalent of a fuel station that warns "No diesel fuel here."
It's the equivalent of a fuel station that warns "No diesel fuel here."
5
Follow the law or close shop.
7
Does not freedom of speech also imply the freedom NOT to speak?
3
You're obfuscating .... Someone who intentionally withholds information needed to make a reasoned decision is a charlatan, a hustler achieving his own desired outcome at any means. The charlatan will lie and pretend to care about the victim but, in fact, doesn't. It's all about benefiting the charlatan. Sound target like McClure &Co.
1
debussy, will those women be in ignorance of the fact that abortion exists if they're not told so at that moment in that clinic?
3
It really boils down to if you're rich or poor. Does anyone think that a woman of means who wants an abortion does not get one?
5
Time for that Hyde "Amendment" to go.
It only impacts poor women - not women of means.
Crass. Ugly.
It only impacts poor women - not women of means.
Crass. Ugly.
4
The reporter should have done his homework on this one. The city of Baltimore tried to pass a very similar law in 2010 and they lost in court. You can't force people to post information that is against their beliefs. A kosher deli can't be forced to tell you where to buy pork; a vegan restaurant can't be forced to tell you where to buy meat. See this link: http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2010-03-29/news/bal-lawsuit0329_1_mater....
2
Kosher delis and vegan restaurants are not "non-profits" nor do they have tax-exemption.
Try again.
Try again.
2
So woman's healthcare hoice now is akin to shopping for pork and veggies! How insightful of you!
2
Why are men making all the decisions about women's bodies? They should, frankly, have no say in the matter.
9
Odd, I didn't know California prohibited women from voting for their legislators.
3
True. They can guard their sperm all they like, like "Condom Cruz", but once they fling it around, tough. If they don't want to engender pregnancies then they can get a vasectomy or "abstain". End of story.
2
Anti-abortion persons are so certain they are right and those who disagree are wrong that they will do anything to stop abortion. That is morally and ethically wrong.
5
Yank their non-profit status.
They spend $300,000 a year to 'serve' less than 2 people a day?
Better that they should give that money to the local food bank to feed those children that they talked their mom's out of aborting.
Oh, but that's right - they care nothing about these cases after they are born.
These people serve no one but themselves.
"Abstinence" for the 'unmarried, "natural methods" for the 'married'.
Really? In this day?
Shut them down, Kamala Harris, or I won't be voting for your run for Barbara Boxer's Senatorial seat. "No comment" doesn't make it.
They spend $300,000 a year to 'serve' less than 2 people a day?
Better that they should give that money to the local food bank to feed those children that they talked their mom's out of aborting.
Oh, but that's right - they care nothing about these cases after they are born.
These people serve no one but themselves.
"Abstinence" for the 'unmarried, "natural methods" for the 'married'.
Really? In this day?
Shut them down, Kamala Harris, or I won't be voting for your run for Barbara Boxer's Senatorial seat. "No comment" doesn't make it.
7
A lot of these anti-abortion types are simply scammers who sell babies to childless couples - when white, for big bucks, and that's their motive.
3
The article, clinics and many commenters are having a red herring festival. The quintessential issue is the sanctity of human life.
2
@Americus - the sanctity of human life for me begins with the conscious living human beings who as individual sentient entities deserve control of their own life and body. Every sperm and egg may hold the potential for being a human life - and every fertilized egg may or may not be able to progress to birth - but the primary right holder is the body that contains the life. It most certainly is not some proto-religious fascist seeking to impose their personal religious views on others. Take your red-herrings and enjoy them with toast points. The quintessential issue is the right of the individual and the sanctity of their body - and everything it contains is subordinate to that quintessential right. You might religiously believe that they have no right to treat their cancer and have it removed and operated on. Same thing as an abortion procedure - it's their domain, not yours. Have a sex change, go get pregnant yourself, but respect the rights of others. Have a nice day.
8
Yes, I agree. The sanctitiy of the (living) woman of course.
2
An ovum, or a sperm cell, has the potential for an infinite number of possible humans it can create, depending on the gamete it joins. Once this happens, the process of cell division starts and the zygote will implant if it can and begin to develop to embryo, then fetus, then newborn baby. (Then toddler, then preschooler, and on and on.) An ovum or a sperm cell isn't going to divide or try to implant. If conception doesn't occur, it will die every time.
The moment of conception is the bright line between potential and life. You may decide that the mother's desire not to be pregnant trumps the newly existing human's right to live. Some of the rest of us reserve the right to disagree.
The moment of conception is the bright line between potential and life. You may decide that the mother's desire not to be pregnant trumps the newly existing human's right to live. Some of the rest of us reserve the right to disagree.
1
It's telling that in the example cited, the "crisis pregnancy center" provided totally stupid advice about contraception. If they had the slightest interest in reducing the number of abortions, they would help women avoid future pregnancies.
8
Their business requires more unwanted pregnancies. That's why they give out only information on "abstinence" and "natural methods". They need the return business to stay in business.
6
Then let them be honest. Say up front they refuse to provide any information on abortion and only are interested in women who want to continue their pregnancies. What they want is to be able to lie and trick women to come to their clinics where they can continue to lie to try to trick them into continuing a pregnancy. Trying to pretend they have a 'right' to do this is preposterous
6
If California's pro-choice activist were so concerned with making the facts available, they would not have fought so hard to remove the obligation to report abortion statistics.
Pro-choice loves to point to the Guttmacher Institute's yearly figures on abortion, claiming that numbers have been dropping for decades.
What they do not want you to know is that California along with Florida stopped reporting the number of abortions performed in their states back in the 90's.
Since those two states made up at the time nearly one-third of all abortions it sure as heck did look like abortions plummeted.
As more states jump on the don't ask because we are not going to tell bandwagon shockingly the numbers of *reported* abortions continue to drop.
So much for the supposed pro-choice insistence on truth and accurate information...
Pro-choice loves to point to the Guttmacher Institute's yearly figures on abortion, claiming that numbers have been dropping for decades.
What they do not want you to know is that California along with Florida stopped reporting the number of abortions performed in their states back in the 90's.
Since those two states made up at the time nearly one-third of all abortions it sure as heck did look like abortions plummeted.
As more states jump on the don't ask because we are not going to tell bandwagon shockingly the numbers of *reported* abortions continue to drop.
So much for the supposed pro-choice insistence on truth and accurate information...
1
Actually, this ain't true.
https://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/sfaa/california.html
One would think you'd be able to make your righteous arguments without this sort of stuff: my only question is, are you willfully ignorant or deliberately lying?
https://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/sfaa/california.html
One would think you'd be able to make your righteous arguments without this sort of stuff: my only question is, are you willfully ignorant or deliberately lying?
9
Let me see if I have got this straight:
The State of California is mandating that Pregnancy Clinics that seek to
persuade a women not to abort her baby must post signs that tell her
whom to call so that she can get an Abortion.
Why not demand that Mental Health Clinics have to post signs telling
depressed patients where they can get medical euthanasia...
Rather hard to believe that anyone who is pregnant cannot find out where
to get an Abortion once they leave the clinic.
So much for free speech in this country.
The State of California is mandating that Pregnancy Clinics that seek to
persuade a women not to abort her baby must post signs that tell her
whom to call so that she can get an Abortion.
Why not demand that Mental Health Clinics have to post signs telling
depressed patients where they can get medical euthanasia...
Rather hard to believe that anyone who is pregnant cannot find out where
to get an Abortion once they leave the clinic.
So much for free speech in this country.
5
Clearly, you don't see the irony in your statement. "Free speech" entails allowing citizens to express their views regardless of venue (except fire/theater situations). So, if you advocate for free speech, then you must allow the signage. Pretty simple logic, if you bother trying. Oh, and conflating depressed patients and euthansia with advice about women's healthcare decisions isn't logical whatsoever. It's twisted fantasy!
3
Payback for Rght To Life's (et al) strategy of harassing PP with red-tape regulations passed by conservative state legislatures, e.g. in my home state of Texas. The ostensible aim is health and safety of the patients, but it really does look like part of a strategy to make it more inconvenient and expensive to operate. I think this law is a coldblooded, cynical attempt by NARAL, PP and friends to fire back and give tit for tat in a state with a liberal legislature. I in no way say that it's right-- I think the Christian clinics should be free to operate and should not have to put up signs that contravene their mission.
5
Debussy - Allow the signage, correct. Mandate the signage, incorrect. Freedom of speech includes the freedom not to speak if one does not wish to.
2
El Cajon has a Planned Parenthood clinic and a "pregnancy care clinic." They are on opposite sides of town. The website for the pregnancy care clinic lists its services. Abortion is not one of them. It does inform about abortions and a young woman could be confused and go to the wrong place. If she wanted an abortion she'd soon figure that out. If she wasn't sure, the pregnancy clinic would try to talk her out of it. The fear is that young women will be tricked into not having abortions. The young women I've known aren't that stupid. The two sides of the abortion debate hate each other so much they will fight over anything.
3
You called it right! Isn't it best to grant a lot of freedom to both sides, so that all can go their separate ways in peace? This would mean allowing both Planned Parenthood and the Christian pregnancy centers to operate, each according to its own lights. Admittedly, the pro-life side has had a strategy of harassing PP et al through state regulations that stop just shy of unconsitutionality. So it's understandable that PP would fire back by lobbying for silly regulations to harass the Christian clinics. Because that's what this is, pure polictical skirmishing.
1
Nonsense.
But let's try it out: when you get sick with, say, testicular cancer, i'll have a clinic open where we believe in faith healing only, and don't tell you about wossname, surgery.
Let's see how well you do.
The point is, clinics like Planned Parenthood are regulated. These clowns aren't. And the fact is, you're a right-to-lifer who's trying a completely-specious argument.
But let's try it out: when you get sick with, say, testicular cancer, i'll have a clinic open where we believe in faith healing only, and don't tell you about wossname, surgery.
Let's see how well you do.
The point is, clinics like Planned Parenthood are regulated. These clowns aren't. And the fact is, you're a right-to-lifer who's trying a completely-specious argument.
9
The reason Roe V Wade has held up these last 40 years is that it is based on the right to privacy. It is hard to argue that the government should not be involved in medical decisions. Can you imagine if it was a law that all men who had prostate cancer, must not have treatment because that could be killing sperm. The right to privacy is a right no matter what our medical condition. I believe that abortions should totally be taken back into the hospitals so that these free standing clinics won't be such targets. Plus seriously who wants to make a woman carry a child at the whim of the government.
5
Translation: trying to use Roe v. Wade to justify closing Planned Parenthood. Doesn't know that there are all sorts of outpatient clinics.
I want my government to defend the right to abortion and crack down on clinics that refuse to inform women about that right. If the clinic doesn't do it, they are illegal operations and should be closed down or prosecuted.
14
That's what you want. Other people want something different. That's when we turn to the law. The default is that people may do as they please unless there is a law against it. Can you argue for the law you want, to restrict others from doing what they want? Are you prepared for them to argue for laws to restrict you from doing what you want?
1
"Pregnancy clinics fight to deny abortion information" is the headline on the internet. Please, NYT, can we pay attention to the small details - the headline reads like an anti-planned parenthooders dream - "so, now , planned parenthood won't even GIVE them information when asked???" Please, make clear headlines!!!! How about "Anti-abortionists fighting new requirement to tell the truth.." And that is the truth!!!
12
Actually, I think the headline should read "Pregnancy clinics fight for the right to refrain from offering abortion information." They can't really deny information about abortion. No one can.
Hypocrites. I imagine that most of these so called pregnancy care centers are run by Christians. They lie about many things in these centers. I wonder how they rationalize their lies with their religion...
15
Many of these centers are fronts for baby selling aka unlicensed adoptions. They are basically selling babies to the highest bidder. Close friends who were looking to adopt got involved with one of these organizations. $15,000. & two years in, they still don't have a baby.
Most of these centers have no real medical personnel & no trained counselors. ANYONE can buy a set of scrubs & a stethoscope. They give medical advice although they have no real training.
Most of these centers have no real medical personnel & no trained counselors. ANYONE can buy a set of scrubs & a stethoscope. They give medical advice although they have no real training.
11
I cannot believe some of what I am reading. Obviously, there are a great many folks (men and women) who have no idea of what it is like for the poor of our nation. Women writing here that a woman, or child, is responsible for a a pregnancy regardless of how or when it occurred. A young girl from an impoverished family who is raped by the neighbor? Well, she should have taken precautions..or purchased a "day after" pill. Apparently there are some places where people grow up believing in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy. I'm appalled.
12
@Carole - obviously part of their theory of the 'War on Santa' has impaired his ability to cough up those $50 'day after' pills. As for affording dental care, forget it. Time to get pregnant and sell the baby if it's kind of white. If not too bad. This is the compassionate conservatism W promised and delivered.
6
It’s so sad that even today we must read articles like this about anti-abortion campaigners in the U.S., the only superpower in the world.
I’m used to reading news like this in the world section and some third world country.
The anti-abortion campaigners don’t seem to leave no stone unturned, even when the Supreme Court has years ago ruled against them.
I’m used to reading news like this in the world section and some third world country.
The anti-abortion campaigners don’t seem to leave no stone unturned, even when the Supreme Court has years ago ruled against them.
9
I have to laugh. This is not about reproductive health. When a woman is pregnant, reproduction has already taken place. It is about convenience to live life without the consequences of one's actions.
Crisis pregnancy centers, such as Birthright, support the mothers through their pregnancy and on into child rearing.
Crisis pregnancy centers, such as Birthright, support the mothers through their pregnancy and on into child rearing.
7
In other words- summon in the sow, ring the bell and reap the profit, all for god.
10
I love comments like this. Pregnancy is not about health? Go read the comments in ANY article about the high c-section rate in this country - countless stories from women about the complications they faced from both c-sections and vaginal deliveries...and that doesn't include the all of the complications that can arise before she gets to the L&D room.
4
"Support them onto child rearing.". Ha! Some free diapers and a car seat. Food for the child as it grows? Safe housing? Support for the singled, frazzled, 2-job Mom? So she doesn't become a child abuser?
these places romance motherhood and when fetus arriveS, congrats and good luck Mom.
these places romance motherhood and when fetus arriveS, congrats and good luck Mom.
5
Abortion IS a very good thing, because it is the last resort for an unwanted pregnancy. Safe, legal, affordable, available abortion on demand and without apology.
19
Except for the dead fetus or baby depending upon when the abortion occurs. The loser is the baby and the mother does not fare well either.
5
You forgot embryo, the developmental stage at which the vast majority of abortions occur.
10
When I think of a pregnancy center I think of a place where I will receive information about giving birth and other baby related advice. I would want a supportive counselor to help me plan my baby's arrival and be there for me with any baby issues I might have. These centers are joyful and happy places that promote life not ending it. They should be congratulated and not condemned. I plan on sending a donation so that they can continue their good work and help expectant mothers who are in need of such facilities.
7
They are actually called "crisis pregnancy centers" and their advertisements are clearly not targeted to happily pregnant women. Happily pregnant women go see medical professionals.
12
On the contrary, many of these "joyful and happy places" are giving women utterly false information, misleading them as to what options are available, frequently present themselves as possessing some type of medical qualifications while actually holding no qualifications whatsoever, and offering far less support to women who are no longer pregnant and instead have an infant child.
The sort of place you describe - a supportive, joyful environment filled with people eager to assist a pregnant woman - does actually exist. But it typically falls under a title such as "birthing center," "midwife and/or doula-assisted pre- and post-natal care," or "Ob/Gyn's office," among others. They are there to provide accurate, medically sound, scientifically supported, compassionate care. They aren't attempting to persuade or dissuade a patient or client. They aren't dressing themselves up as cardiologists while actually functioning as aerobics instructors. CPCs, on the other hand, know exactly what they are doing, and have shown zero qualms about manipulating appearances in order to seem like a full-service medical center for unplanned pregnancies when they are actually nothing of the sort.
The sort of place you describe - a supportive, joyful environment filled with people eager to assist a pregnant woman - does actually exist. But it typically falls under a title such as "birthing center," "midwife and/or doula-assisted pre- and post-natal care," or "Ob/Gyn's office," among others. They are there to provide accurate, medically sound, scientifically supported, compassionate care. They aren't attempting to persuade or dissuade a patient or client. They aren't dressing themselves up as cardiologists while actually functioning as aerobics instructors. CPCs, on the other hand, know exactly what they are doing, and have shown zero qualms about manipulating appearances in order to seem like a full-service medical center for unplanned pregnancies when they are actually nothing of the sort.
11
LOL...you're actually serious.
From the article: "Many centers across the country provide what mainstream medical experts say are misleading accounts of rare abortion complications, and of disproved longer-term effects. The centers often suggest, for example, based on what critics describe as a selective or outdated review of research, that abortion raises the risks of premature births, depression and breast cancer."
Liars, the lot of them, and they care nothing for the unborn. They're just looking for opportunities to proselytize, and they are exploiting pregnant women as a means to do exactly that.
As vile as it gets.
From the article: "Many centers across the country provide what mainstream medical experts say are misleading accounts of rare abortion complications, and of disproved longer-term effects. The centers often suggest, for example, based on what critics describe as a selective or outdated review of research, that abortion raises the risks of premature births, depression and breast cancer."
Liars, the lot of them, and they care nothing for the unborn. They're just looking for opportunities to proselytize, and they are exploiting pregnant women as a means to do exactly that.
As vile as it gets.
6
I wasn't aware that one was allowed to offer false medical "advice" as an unlicensed person and this was protected by the First Amendment. We don't allow snake oil salesmen anymore- they were all shut down for practicing medicine without a license and fraud. Shouldn't these CPCs be shut down for the same thing?
26
Not only does society allow "snake oil salesmen" but their voices and platforms are louder and their messages more distorted than ever. Just look at Dr. Oz, Integrated Medicine as a specialty, "doctors of naturopathy", and pretty much anything at a GNC. Begs the question of why is the government not pursuing them with such vigor.
2
The accusation of false advice comes from abortion rights advocates. It is like the claims of those opposed to Planned Parenthood who come up with unsubstantiated accusations of wrongdoing. Clearly, in both cases, those making the accusations are extremely biased. If you want to believe one group of very angry advocates and not believe the other, that is your perfect right. Myself, I don't believe anybody who makes dubious aggressive accusations without absolute proof.
2
Buddy, the "clinic," personnel themselves say they tell patients things that aren't true, and withhold information.
2
Since when does one's right to free speech cover giving out erroneous information? I doubt that propaganda is covered under the category of "free speech". The centers that are licensed by the state surely must have some professional obligation to provide medically accurate information to the women who use their services. At the very least, they should be required to make it clear that they will not provide information or referrals for abortion.
18
Poor, uneducated women are often susceptible to religious brainwashing, not to mention they often see bearing children as a way to add 'meaning' to their lives, especially when they have no/poor role models, low self-esteem, and no good/stable man in their lives. We need to address the root of low self-esteem in such women, give them better options for their lives (better-paying jobs, access to higher education) and also give the men in their lives better options as well (and not throw so many into prison for petty crimes, drug possession, etc.)
Here is another sorry example just today, of a woman who was likely poor, uneducated and appeared to have made a number of bad decisions (she bore three children within three years, and with at least two different men). Sadly, too often the writing is on the wall for girls/women whose lives follow this trajectory. These poor decisions affect the girls/women, their kids, and society as a whole.
We women, due to the very nature of pregnancy and childbirth, need to exert much better control and decision-making when we decide to have sex with a man. That is just plain reality, like it or not. These are not all 'accidental' pregnancies but in many instances, pregnancies that were sub-consciously desired, or at the very least, a knowing acceptance. I'm tired of seeing these scenarios repeated over and over again, and so many children suffering because girls/women think having a baby is 'no big deal'.
Here is another sorry example just today, of a woman who was likely poor, uneducated and appeared to have made a number of bad decisions (she bore three children within three years, and with at least two different men). Sadly, too often the writing is on the wall for girls/women whose lives follow this trajectory. These poor decisions affect the girls/women, their kids, and society as a whole.
We women, due to the very nature of pregnancy and childbirth, need to exert much better control and decision-making when we decide to have sex with a man. That is just plain reality, like it or not. These are not all 'accidental' pregnancies but in many instances, pregnancies that were sub-consciously desired, or at the very least, a knowing acceptance. I'm tired of seeing these scenarios repeated over and over again, and so many children suffering because girls/women think having a baby is 'no big deal'.
5
The idea we need a law to tell people about services they can obtain at low cost, that have been made available for them, by law, is sad. No, it is worse than sad, it is sick. Anyone with a deeply felt religious belief that leads to considering abortion to be evil, definitely has the right to create a place where pregnant women are helped to give birth and take care of their children. But there is no right in this country to lie to, harass, embarrass, or coerce women in an effort to prevent them from using services that they want.
11
Nonsense, these places are places of lies and hypocrisy.
I'm not sure I see a problem. We have a sign, mandated by the government, in our office that indicates the minimum wage, and how you can report workplace safety violations. The bathroom at a restaurant will have a mandated sign reminding employees that they must wash their hands. The bar has a mandated sign that children are not allowed inside.
If those signs aren't "free speech violations" then neither is this one.
If those signs aren't "free speech violations" then neither is this one.
9
No sign describing where to buy a gun is being forced on anti-gunners.
3
Does your office have a deep-seated moral objection to the minimum wage and to workplace safety violations? Was it in fact set up to give people an option to getting paid the minimum wage and to work in an unsafe workplace? If not, then those signs are in no way analogous to this situation.
2
"If she gives birth, she may receive help with diapers and a car seat."
This information is telling. These pregnancy clinics are willing to help pregnant women only up to a point. Once the baby is born, it is all on the mothers to take care of their babies, even if they have neither the means nor the knowledge to do so.
These "pro-life" people are actually "pro-birth". They are only interested in seeing the babies born and then couldn't care less about what happens to these small human beings after birth. They would even go as far as to complain about Medicaid, EBT, SNAP, and other government assistance to these poor and needy mothers. Such intense hypocrisy. . . .
This information is telling. These pregnancy clinics are willing to help pregnant women only up to a point. Once the baby is born, it is all on the mothers to take care of their babies, even if they have neither the means nor the knowledge to do so.
These "pro-life" people are actually "pro-birth". They are only interested in seeing the babies born and then couldn't care less about what happens to these small human beings after birth. They would even go as far as to complain about Medicaid, EBT, SNAP, and other government assistance to these poor and needy mothers. Such intense hypocrisy. . . .
18
"If only I had a car seat and some diapers, THEN I could continue this pregnancy" ~Said no poor pregnant woman ever
17
"'If only I had a car seat and some diapers, THEN I could continue this pregnancy' ~Said no poor pregnant woman ever"
Of course. Clearly, the help these clinics offer amounts to much more than a car seat and diapers, or they would have no success.
Of course. Clearly, the help these clinics offer amounts to much more than a car seat and diapers, or they would have no success.
1
These are the same rubes who cheer wildly as Cruz sneers his plan to carpet-bomb innocent civilian overseas.
"Pro life."
Hysterical.
"Pro life."
Hysterical.
21
This has nothing to do with saving fetuses and everything to do with controlling and denying women their right to their own healthcare decisions. Women serve in our wars, fly jets, are brain and heart surgeons, judges, part of our police force in communities across America, entrepreneurs, teachers, women are in every field today. Soooo, what right does some male politician decide for women what information she should have access to ? This is becoming too much like the mid-east where men make all the decisions for women.
20
Why should these pregnancy centers have to give any information about abortion? They are in the business of assisting women with birth and related services. They are not in the grisly business of supplying information of where to end a baby's life. They want the women to see that their babies are worthwhile and deserve a chance at life. The pro-life movement is the human rights issue of the day just like the civil rights movement was to blacks in the sixties. I applaud these pregnancy centers for not going against their ethics and principles and preserving life. Many of the babies saved come from minority backgrounds. I am sure Martin Luther King would approve as his niece does. She is very involved in the pro-life cause.
8
They don't help with pregnancy either. They have no doctors or nurses in most of them. They lie about services, they lie about fetal development, they lie about women's options, they lie about contraception and ways of avoiding pregnancy, they lie about STI prevention. They provide no help, and they provide falsehoods about the entire pregnancy and birth process. They preach and shame instead of helping and informing. Sometimes they perform criminal actions like kidnapping (locking a woman in a room until her abortion appointment at another location is past or until she watches a video she doesn't want to see).
Pro-life is anti-woman, pure and simple. Unwanted pregnancy combines aspects of rape and slavery; it is the use of one's intimate parts against one's will and without one's consent, and it is the forced uncompensated use of another person's labor. Abortion is indeed part of one of the biggest human rights issues of today; women need to have full control over their bodies in order to be fully equal, after all. You're just on the wrong side of that issue. If you are anti-choice, you are part of the problem.
Pro-life is anti-woman, pure and simple. Unwanted pregnancy combines aspects of rape and slavery; it is the use of one's intimate parts against one's will and without one's consent, and it is the forced uncompensated use of another person's labor. Abortion is indeed part of one of the biggest human rights issues of today; women need to have full control over their bodies in order to be fully equal, after all. You're just on the wrong side of that issue. If you are anti-choice, you are part of the problem.
19
You should be ashamed of the surretitious tactics, lies, unscientific data, scare tactics and misrepresentation these clinics use to misinform women, many of them less educated, young and of color, to suit YOUR judgement about how people should conduct their lives. Who installed YOU on the throne of judgement? Usurper! Amazing arrogance!
10
M,
Pro life is pro woman. The pro abortion folks have sold a false bill of goods for years telling women it is in their best interest to have an abortion. It is propaganda and ask a woman who has had an abortion and they will agree that they were told a lie. Women are just realizing that this a grave distortion and only wish they had not been hoodwinked into this grisly and horrendous act. Women are a lot smarter and much more savvy today. They are beginning to see the light -- the pro-life light.
Pro life is pro woman. The pro abortion folks have sold a false bill of goods for years telling women it is in their best interest to have an abortion. It is propaganda and ask a woman who has had an abortion and they will agree that they were told a lie. Women are just realizing that this a grave distortion and only wish they had not been hoodwinked into this grisly and horrendous act. Women are a lot smarter and much more savvy today. They are beginning to see the light -- the pro-life light.
4
It is beyond me to understand how "free speech" allows for the dissemination of false medical information merely because these clinics' staffs "believe" what they say. What if these clinics provided not birth counseling but did auto repairs. Would the clinics be able to say that they believe using your feet to drag a car to a stop is preferable to using the brakes?
8
They wouldn't be authorized to hand out auto inspection stickers, that's for certain.
3
Is it not consumer fraud to pass on false information?
4
The services are free I believe.
4
Jkile, it doesn't matter whether money changed hands. It's fraudulent activity. Period.
5
Posting a sign hardly seems like a "burden."
These so-called crisis pregnancy centers exist solely to dissuade women from having an abortion, but they do not make that clear. They mislead vulnerable, often poor and desperate women into carrying the fetus to term. The State has a clear and compelling interest in protecting these women from this deceptive and unethical practice.
These so-called crisis pregnancy centers exist solely to dissuade women from having an abortion, but they do not make that clear. They mislead vulnerable, often poor and desperate women into carrying the fetus to term. The State has a clear and compelling interest in protecting these women from this deceptive and unethical practice.
13
Time is of the essence in proper pre-natal care, and in performing timely procedures for the health of the mother. And, should she choose to have a child, the health of the pre-child and baby. Such clinics are inserting themselves between the doctor and their patient. I see and read nothing in here, not one material example that indicates a woman received medical care more quickly due to their intervention. To the contrary, they were shortstopped and bamboozled or misled at best.
20
Does my dentist now need to post the number of the extractionist?
7
My dentist posts contact numbers for the root canal, extraction, etc. and gives full disclosure on rates too. But, he's the exception. Dentists brag for the most part about having escaped the health system. But, the minute my dentist tells my daughter to have her child to term I'm out of there, buddy.
8
Under public health and information laws these clinics should be forced to warn the public per the following: "This is not a medical facility and our clients are not protected by doctor patient confidentiality laws and other laws that may provide privacy and protection to your personal information and records. This is a non-profit entity that provide medical advice that reflects the beliefs of its sponsoring organization. Please consult a doctor, hospital or emergency room for any questions regarding your personal health needs and understand that although we provide information on this subject we are neither trained nor licensed to dispense professional medical care."
27
This was statement and campaign was designed by NARAL. They have misled and biased legislators against their personal enemies; the pro-life pregnancy centers.
Not surprising since they are the same crowd that is mad at Doritos for "humanizing fetuses" via ultrasound.
Not surprising since they are the same crowd that is mad at Doritos for "humanizing fetuses" via ultrasound.
7
Jeff. I agree. It sounds to me like NARAL wants to promote abortions. Since 1 in 3 women were considering abortion, they already knew about it. As does everyone else in this country.
3
JKile - so if I'm considering a procedure I know the hospital, doctor, and testing facilities already? And ''everybody does'' so then we don't need these religious pimpmobile stations at all right? Let's just shut em down then!
6
"......or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...."
4
This is a very telling example of how much the conservative intent for society is based on the restriction of information, rather than the spread of it.
20
I love how it's always some man who is in control of these places. You know what is "unconstitutional"? Lack of choice. I'm so sick of people like this pushing their agendas on to everyone else, especially women in a vulnerable situation. It's fine if you don't want to offer abortions or if you are against them personally, but it's not ok to not present all options to women seeking your assistance. Plus, what could anyone possibly have against contraception????
17
It's not being pushed on anyone. They come of their own free will,and can leave of their own free will. Abortion business must be bad if we have to force people to consider it.
5
Try reading the article. They come because they think it's a place that offers information on abortion as an option. That's misrepresentation if not fraud, apparently a well-known Christian virtue.
6
JKile,
The abortion procedure is a very lucrative money-making business. That is where they make the most profit and so it is to their advantage to perform as many as possible. Unfortunately, innocent lives are lost in the process.
The abortion procedure is a very lucrative money-making business. That is where they make the most profit and so it is to their advantage to perform as many as possible. Unfortunately, innocent lives are lost in the process.
4
So crisis pregnancy clinics don't like forced speech, huh? How is this any different than all those Red states requiring forced speech from abortion clinic doctors, such as false claims that medication abortions can be reversed, or mandating detailed verbal descriptions of sonogram images that a pregnant young woman must endure before she can have her abortion?
21
I am confused as well. We can't force these pregnancy centers to disclose the truth of their mission but politicians force abortion providers and women to undergo a bunch of unnecessary steps...
11
Why are "abortion alternatives" a distinct category of services that are provided separately? Shouldn't "choice" include all options, including those promoted here?
8
"Choice" is a made up word/concept by the abortion industry to sanitize what they are promoting. They have no financial incentive to offer choices, so they don't. The hypocrisy is befuddling.
3
Actually, Larry, "choice" is an option for rape victims, and especially teen-aged girls.
Who are you to force a full-term pregnancy on them?
Who are you to force a full-term pregnancy on them?
8
AACNY actually they do if women choose to go to term PP clinics provide wonderful support toward that end. They are wonderful, just get over the psychosis of the baby pimps and right wing obsessed religious zealots and this is a simple issue. Full disclosure.
4
This is akin to the states that require waiting periods, ultrasounds, and some canned lecture for abortion providers to give. Its bogus but a cost of doing business. The states should get out of regulating family planning and abortion period and let women and their doctors decide what is best for them
8
The laws in many states require doctors to lie to patients about abortion. It seems only fair that liberal states can require abortion opponents to tell the truth.
13
The center is licensed by the state and subject to state rules and regs, right? So what's the issue? This should be swatted out of court like a pesky fly.
3
ATT should be required to post signs that Skype is cheaper than ATT and GM should post signs that Fords have cheaper cars and so on to make sure all consumers are aware.
6
Rich,
Why yes, those are just like Medical Malpractice aren't they.
Remember that when your Doctor prescribes your hysterectomy for you.
It's all good right?!
Why yes, those are just like Medical Malpractice aren't they.
Remember that when your Doctor prescribes your hysterectomy for you.
It's all good right?!
2
Aren't these the same people who want laws to force doctors to counsel pregnant women about alternatives to abortions and force them to show them pictures of developing fetuses? So help me to understand - is there a footnote to the !st Amendment that exempts those trying to prevent women from having abortions?
Hypocrites.
Hypocrites.
15
So legislators can require doctors to do things and say things to women who seek abortions (even if it goes against all medical knowledge), but legislators cannot require lay people to do the same? Huh?
12
As usual when religious ideology runs into present day life , the first causality is the truth.
14
This is clearly an attempt by the State to dissuade women from having to make the moral choice regarding an abortion.
6
If they are not selling anything, though I disagree with their blatant dishonesty, I think that they have every right to be liars for the lord if they want to be. I do sympathize with the state position though as I firmly believe that knowledge is power. And providing incorrect information to scare them to do what you want is unethical. But if religions are protected when they tell whatever fanciful story they want to get people to part with their money while being tax exempt, I don't see how a place not charging people any money should restricted from telling their lies.
2
Why should they be able to be liars on the taxpayer dole?
Being tax-exempt is not exactly "not charging people any money."
Being tax-exempt is not exactly "not charging people any money."
10
If its a FREE religiously based pregnancy center they should have something that clearly notes they are Christian which would be more honest advertising to women, since women would then know upfront that the place was Christian and NO abortion support of any kind.
Personally when I see the term 'crisis pregnancy' I automatically think 'pro life- anti choice- anti abortion'. As well as NO birth control information if one is single or married. Interesting that one never hears/reads of pro choice folks outside of these places warning women that the place is anti choice anti birth control and Christian based.
Bear in mind FREE services are far different from places like Planned Parenthood and secular reproductive health centers where there is a fee involved. And being FREE should allow for some leeway as far as being forced to give out any abortion support information the clinic does not believe in.
Should a SDA (Seventh Day Adventist)hospital or health clinic, free or pay for services, be required to talk about healthier food choices that include animal products, even though SDA's are vegan/vegetarian oriented and do not support diets that include animal products?
Personally when I see the term 'crisis pregnancy' I automatically think 'pro life- anti choice- anti abortion'. As well as NO birth control information if one is single or married. Interesting that one never hears/reads of pro choice folks outside of these places warning women that the place is anti choice anti birth control and Christian based.
Bear in mind FREE services are far different from places like Planned Parenthood and secular reproductive health centers where there is a fee involved. And being FREE should allow for some leeway as far as being forced to give out any abortion support information the clinic does not believe in.
Should a SDA (Seventh Day Adventist)hospital or health clinic, free or pay for services, be required to talk about healthier food choices that include animal products, even though SDA's are vegan/vegetarian oriented and do not support diets that include animal products?
5
The California law is a clear infringement on conscious and free speech for those who work in these clinics, most of which are supported by charitable donations and many of which are staffed by religiously inspired volunteers. Many would find it deeply offensive to see posters advertising abortion in these clinics where they give their time and effort.
Is there a single adult human being in the State of California who does not know already that abortion is a legal option? The vast majority of women going to these clinics are seeking an alternative.
The greed of the abortion industry seems to know no boundaries.
Is there a single adult human being in the State of California who does not know already that abortion is a legal option? The vast majority of women going to these clinics are seeking an alternative.
The greed of the abortion industry seems to know no boundaries.
5
If they are providing false information or luring women into the clinic os false pretenses then they are commuting consumer fraud.
8
They can tolerate nothing that impedes abortion. They have become fanatical in this regard.
The abortion issue has made it clear why free speech and religious beliefs require legal protection.
The abortion issue has made it clear why free speech and religious beliefs require legal protection.
1
The pro-lifers should go to China and India where they kill newborn girls by choking them or drowning them, because they are simply girls. That is squarely murder. If a woman wants to terminate a pregnancy for whatever reason she has the right to do so, that it is nobody's business especially when she is the one who carries all the burden. If her efforts are hindered she will find a way to do it regardless of what anyone says. Fanatic religious people bug off.
9
What a strange argument considering the facts you yourself juxtapose - killing newborns (in every way dependent and helpless as a developing fetus in the womb) for being female you call "squarely murder." But an abortion "for whatever reason" is nobody's business. What am I missing (and have always missed) that makes one murder and the other a right? What actually changes in those five to six months?
5
Quite a bit, depending on how far along the pregnancy is.
9
The New Yorker recently had a very interesting piece on why it's so difficult to prevent child abuse. Noted in the report is a striking statistical correlation to women in poverty.
Making things so difficult for women, poor women in particular, has all kinds of societal reverberations down the road.
Get with the 21st century. Widely available low-cost contraception AND abortion are important components of civilized society.
Making things so difficult for women, poor women in particular, has all kinds of societal reverberations down the road.
Get with the 21st century. Widely available low-cost contraception AND abortion are important components of civilized society.
13
The people who oppose this law in California are religious jerks. I applaud the three federal district courts refusing the block this law.
One of the groups representing the centers which refuse to post abortion information, the Pacific Justice Institute, offers a free copy of Mike Huckabee's book "God, Guns, Grits, and Gravy"! This is the Greed Only Party and its clowns which seek to deny women the right to choose and would happy overturning Roe v Wade.
One of the groups representing the centers which refuse to post abortion information, the Pacific Justice Institute, offers a free copy of Mike Huckabee's book "God, Guns, Grits, and Gravy"! This is the Greed Only Party and its clowns which seek to deny women the right to choose and would happy overturning Roe v Wade.
12
how would these "pregnancy center" people feel if "cancer centers" dispensing false information about cancer - but no actual treatment or surgery ("Here! your cancer was caused by negative thoughts. Eat this apple and say this prayer, and you'll be so much happier!!!") - were allowed to operate?
19
Universal healthcare --including coverage for birth control, family planning, prenatal care and childbirth -- would solve this problem by providing care for low-income women rather than forcing them to rely on religiously-motivated low-cost providers. The term "pro-choice" should include the right to choose (and to afford) comprehensive, objective, science-based medical care. How is it that we're well into the 21st century, and women still get their care in the Dark Ages?
12
Isn't there a morning after pill available to take care of this? It would be too presumptive in an educated nation to expect a woman to be responsible for her own birth control before an abortion is resorted to.
1
Ha! Ironic...you assume all these women have similar levels of education and similar access to the morning- after pill, which (ironically) many religious zealots consider the same as abortion!! How's it anyone's businesses except the woman and man involved what birth control method she uses, anyway??
13
It would be too presumptive in an educated nation to expect a woman to be responsible for her own birth control before an abortion is resorted to.
Why is it that you fail to see your presumptions in YOUR question? You do know that birth control fails. right? You do know that human beings are human beings are we are wildly fallible?!?
And by the way? The folks on the reich wing also want to ban morning after pills. They like to lie about them as well.
Why is it that you fail to see your presumptions in YOUR question? You do know that birth control fails. right? You do know that human beings are human beings are we are wildly fallible?!?
And by the way? The folks on the reich wing also want to ban morning after pills. They like to lie about them as well.
14
Finally, some sanity round here. I mean, if only teen-aged girls impregnated by their fathers had just taken some responsibility already. "One sec, Dad, just gotta take my pill." What's so difficult about that?
If only rape victims spoke up during their attacks. "Before you smack me around and violently invade me, let me make sure my diaphragm is in properly." Seems pretty simple to me.
Yes, yes, Janis, you are so right. After all, men have NOTHING to do with pregnancy and thus should keep getting their free passes.
If only rape victims spoke up during their attacks. "Before you smack me around and violently invade me, let me make sure my diaphragm is in properly." Seems pretty simple to me.
Yes, yes, Janis, you are so right. After all, men have NOTHING to do with pregnancy and thus should keep getting their free passes.
10
"Beyond assistance for needy new mothers, the center also gives advice on how to avoid another pregnancy: abstinence for the unmarried, “natural” methods for the married."
This is the key for these centers and places like them.
They want to effectively "punish" people for having sex either out of wedlock or not for reproduction.
Basically, they help keep the cycle of poverty going so wealthy whites can control how minorities live, i.e. overpopulated so that the only opportunities to them are low paying menial jobs or the military.
Abstinence has been proven time and again not to work. "Natural" methods are enormously risky and—if you do get pregnant—too bad, you have to have the child, according to these people, no matter what the circumstances.
If you REALLY want to prevent abortions, you should be THROWING birth control at people, and making sure they know how to use it. It doesn't mean you're telling them to have sex. But you would truly be trying to prevent the need for abortions.
This is the key for these centers and places like them.
They want to effectively "punish" people for having sex either out of wedlock or not for reproduction.
Basically, they help keep the cycle of poverty going so wealthy whites can control how minorities live, i.e. overpopulated so that the only opportunities to them are low paying menial jobs or the military.
Abstinence has been proven time and again not to work. "Natural" methods are enormously risky and—if you do get pregnant—too bad, you have to have the child, according to these people, no matter what the circumstances.
If you REALLY want to prevent abortions, you should be THROWING birth control at people, and making sure they know how to use it. It doesn't mean you're telling them to have sex. But you would truly be trying to prevent the need for abortions.
23
Why is it so important to social conservatives to force women to have children, even if lying is necessary? Their attempts to block access to birth control as well as abortion prove that this isn't about protecting "life."
24
To social conservatives, a woman is chattel. Still.
2
These clinics concept of free speech is such a distortion. They want free speech for themselves to conceal facts. They assert they are giving women alternatives yet abortion is a viable alternative they hide. And those that aren't licensed should be closed. Think of them up against the Texas law currently on hold awaiting the Supreme Court's decision that abortion facilities must have complete surgical centers and doctors with hospital admitting privileges close by. All these roadblocks are religion prompted act. They violate our constitution. McClure is a liar with a one-note agenda. California is much to intelligent to let these clinics get by with their propaganda that violates women's healthcare.
19
In general, I think requiring more disclosure is better than less. Pregnancy clinics should have to disclose the availability of abortion options, and abortion clinics should tell their patients what they are about to do, perhaps including viewing a sonogram of the fetus so the patient is fully informed.
Or maybe both entities should be free to disclose what they think is relevant, as long as there is no false information provided.
Or maybe both entities should be free to disclose what they think is relevant, as long as there is no false information provided.
2
But this is lying by omission.
3
Full disclosure is the best option for these women, but abortion providers want to avoid anything that makes a woman feel "guilty".
What a frightfully small place the First Amendment is threatening to become in the 21st Century: A private entity has the right to believe most anything and perhaps (?) even to say most anything, so long as some portion of its actual communications contains government-drafted speech that is in clear, direct and irreconcilable conflict with those beliefs.
If this were in regard to most any other topic apart from abortion, people would be appalled, not to mention rightfully concerned about the awful precedent that such efforts set. But, as it is ....
If this were in regard to most any other topic apart from abortion, people would be appalled, not to mention rightfully concerned about the awful precedent that such efforts set. But, as it is ....
8
The problem is that they receive state funds. Can't have it both ways.
6
The First Amendment does not protect the right for a medical facility to lie, DELIBERATELY, to its patients.
9
And yet, there are laws in some states requiring abortion providers to provide inaccurate or deliberately manipulative information to any woman seeking an abortion. Funny how that doesn't seem to bother anti-abortionists.
6
Perhaps the only way to solve this problem is to be certain there are huge Penalties for males who impregnate anyone who is opposed to deliberately creating foundlings for the commercial markets' profiteering?
I think the case could easily be made that this is simply another sort of enslavement of the helpless ones among us, who are often under-aged and abused children themselves.
I think the case could easily be made that this is simply another sort of enslavement of the helpless ones among us, who are often under-aged and abused children themselves.
11
That is just horrible, penalizing males for something the FEMALE is in control of. Women are in control of their own fertility, much more so than you imply. How can I put this delicately? You're confusing a HOME INVASION ROBBERY for merely leaving all one's windows and doors UNLOCKED AND WIDE OPEN. How ironic of you to mention "profiteering"; Women can and do use their fertility to entrap men, even entrap the welfare system, not just committing it but openly displaying the wherewithal to...With that said, society needs to stop treating pregnant women like hapless victims. The only real victim in that situation is the child who is the result of negligence, or the result of the idea of becoming a meal ticket for more money, or a bargaining chip to keep a relationship, etc...Conditions like that are unworthy for bringing a child into the world, they deserve better. The end.
Why no protesters handing out literature in front of these "crisis clinics"?
If you have to run the gauntlet at Planned Parenthood, it would seem only fair that these facilities should have to accommodate protestors as well, with signs and handouts.
If you have to run the gauntlet at Planned Parenthood, it would seem only fair that these facilities should have to accommodate protestors as well, with signs and handouts.
25
You are correct. But, the police will harass you. Police tend to be the worst sexists out there.
2
Aren't you paying attention? Planned Parenthood are fighting hard JUST TO STAY OPEN. Needless to say, they feel there are bigger priorities than return the "crisis center's" petty "medicine".
3
True, but then reasonable people would have to stoop to the level of extremist nuts who want to control women...
7
Somehow, some way, I get the feeling that Republicans are behind this effort. Could I be wrong? Nah! No way!..........
17
It's fine by me if people want to prevent abortions. What's not fine is that most of those who oppose abortion also oppose safe, widely available, affordable (free!) birth control and scientific sex education.
25
Are abortion clinics forced to advertise for pregnancy clinics? If not, leave the pregnancy clinics alone.
9
They're not really clinics -- that's the problem. They are lying, store-front churches trying to force their religious beliefs on those who need help, not conversion.
22
They're not forced, it's required by medical law. Planned Parenthood and clinics like them are health centers; while they provide abortions, they also inform their patients of the risks of pregnancy and abortion, provide information on the adoption agencies they recommend and government agencies patients might be eligible for. They also are staffed with licensed medical professionals who counsel and treat these pregnant women and eventually provide checkups for the babies they birth. The problem with clinics like these are that they want to get legal exemption to continue deceiving women. Clinics like these are not medical clinics; their mission is to persuade women to carry a pregnancy to term, not to provide care. At 12 weeks, right before the legal cutoff for abortion, they refer the women to actual doctors for prenatal care (and if they decide to keep the pregnancy, prenatal care should start as soon as possible). Yet they want to continue calling themselves medical clinics so that women will continue to visit them, but don't have licensed medical personnel (and they don't disclose this to the women who come to them for the medical advice they advertise) and don't want to follow medical law because it interferes with their religious agenda. It's deception, plain and simple.
13
These clinics are not harmless - they waste time that many women can ill afford. If someone is seeking an abortion, she only has a few weeks to get it. Taking time off work, finding transportation, finding child care, all of that uses up resources. A woman who wants an abortion should be able to cut straight to the chase without having to navigate an obstacle course.
34
My first response to this article was a string of expletives directed to pregnancy crisis clinics and the stringent, and hypocritical morality that governs them.
My next response was complete agreement with the Readers' Picks articulate observations and arguments against such pregnancy clinics. These clinics may offer diapers and other necessities but, as asked earlier, will they provide free day care, medical exams, college tuition and all the other necessities required to raise a healthy child for those first 18 years? I think not.
The care provided by these sham clinics stops at birth - the care serves only as long as the fetus remains such. Nothing beyond that except lies, misinformation and hypocrisy.
My next response was complete agreement with the Readers' Picks articulate observations and arguments against such pregnancy clinics. These clinics may offer diapers and other necessities but, as asked earlier, will they provide free day care, medical exams, college tuition and all the other necessities required to raise a healthy child for those first 18 years? I think not.
The care provided by these sham clinics stops at birth - the care serves only as long as the fetus remains such. Nothing beyond that except lies, misinformation and hypocrisy.
24
That is why I coined the more appropriate term for the self-described prolifers as PRO-NATALISTS. Because that is all they really are, and I will forever refer to them as such.
5
Why is showing what a fetus looks like through different stages such an awful thing to do. Why does planned parenthood do everything in their power to avoid having a woman have a sonogram? Why aren't people bothered by that? I don't see how withholding information about the babies development( planned parenthood) wouldn't be seen as an equal problem. After reading many comments,hearing people upset about the stupid Doritos commercial because it made a baby seem to human... I am convinced that their is some strong desire for population control NOT woman's rights, that is the umbrella in which the real agenda is hidden. If you truly believe in "choice" what's wrong with a woman knowing exactly what her abortion will consist of, all risks, and a clear understanding of the state of her fetus? Well, that could mean the clinic would loose money if she decided to give birth. It's a sad day when pro choice really means abortion only, not a choice at all....
6
You are so misinformed. The clinics that legitimately serve women and girls (and men) already do all of what you think a clinic should do. They do not withhold any information. You've made the mistake of getting your (mis)information from right wing fanatics and male supremacists.
You completely mischaracterize what pro-choice is and does. It appears that it is CHOICE that you oppose. Otherwise, why would you neglect to mention all the prenatal care PPH gives? Obviously these clients did not have an abortion so why ignore them as if they didn't exist?
The PPH clinics I've known have posters and models showing the stages of development of a fetus. They just don't try to convince a pregnant female that her life is less important than a clump of cells.
You completely mischaracterize what pro-choice is and does. It appears that it is CHOICE that you oppose. Otherwise, why would you neglect to mention all the prenatal care PPH gives? Obviously these clients did not have an abortion so why ignore them as if they didn't exist?
The PPH clinics I've known have posters and models showing the stages of development of a fetus. They just don't try to convince a pregnant female that her life is less important than a clump of cells.
12
Kimber86 there are several factual misstatements or intentional lies in your comment: Planned Parenthood provides and advertises ultrasound on request along with advice as to how far advanced a patient is in their pregnancy. It's not withheld information at all. In fact their liability policies require them to strictly adhere. Since your whole post revolves around this assumption, it is deeply flawed.
9
Planned Parenthood is a not for profit organization. Their services are provided by medical professionals. It would be unethical of them not to provide medically inaccurate information. If a patient is interested in having an abortion the stage of the pregnancy must be accessed. Wether a patient chooses to end a pregnancy or not PP offers affordable birth control to prevent another unwanted pregnancy. Isn't that what we all really want?
6
I am sure there are many men who are as grateful as women are for legal, accessible abortion services. It would be nice to hear from them.
11
Not that it's any of the business of the large number of men who posted their moronic religious views as moral certainties here, but the best decision my wife and I ever made involved putting off our children until we were further along with our careers. As it was we were able to provide them with advantages that we ourselves were denied. But, if it wasn't for access to legal and safe abortion our lives could have been much more challenging. And we needed help when we finally did decide to have children. But, everything worked out great. So, there it is, good news ain't what sells papers. But, Planned Parenthood is the greatest! And I have nothing but my lowest contempt for those who slander it in the name of their sick fanatical beliefs.
6
JoAnne,
Yes, we are grateful too.
Yes, we are grateful too.
5
Do these pregnancy clinics provide medical and nutritional help for
pregnant women? Wouldn't it be in their best interests for these religious
and conservative anti-abortionists who counsel pregnant women (baby factories) to have healthy babies from poor women available for adoption?
pregnant women? Wouldn't it be in their best interests for these religious
and conservative anti-abortionists who counsel pregnant women (baby factories) to have healthy babies from poor women available for adoption?
4
The Constitution doesn't enshrine the right to lie, induce or mislead. It doesn't protect the rights of people to deny by omission the rights of other people. It doesn't grant the right of someone to blind the eyes of someone else's mind. These people are liars. If they can't make their cases truthfully they shouldn't be protected in taking advantage of their victims.
24
Yes, but religion does.
1
So I guess that whole thing about "bearing false witness" was really more of a suggestion, and it's perfectly acceptable to lie or emotionally manipulate people in the name of God. Good to know.
4
@KatieS: Yes, it's one of the Ten Suggestions.
3
I think clinics like that should be made exempt from the new law if they cover 100% of the childcare costs of every one of their patients, until all children in the family turn 18.
9
This would still be forced birth by lying to the patient.
5
Making society responsible for every life not purposely ended is a foolish argument.
1
"At least 70 are licensed, meaning they are under the supervision of a physician and employ nurses and volunteer counselors."
If at these particular licensed centers, where licensed medical personnel work, they refuse to hang up signs informing women of all of their medical choices, including abortion, isn't that a violation of the Hippocratic oath?
Isn't the withholding of medical information, by a licensed health provider, illegal?
If at these particular licensed centers, where licensed medical personnel work, they refuse to hang up signs informing women of all of their medical choices, including abortion, isn't that a violation of the Hippocratic oath?
Isn't the withholding of medical information, by a licensed health provider, illegal?
6
Isn't assisting a patient in ending their own life also a violation, i.e. Physician-assisted suicide?
And what about the intentional destruction of a viable fetus/person?
And what about the intentional destruction of a viable fetus/person?
Assisted suicide is the choice of the person who is terminally ill or otherwise incapacitated. Abortion is the choice of the person who must physically suffer the ramifications of a pregnancy. The embryo/clump of cells you refer to is, for 9 months, effectively a part of a woman's body. It is commonly recognized that a clump of cells/embryo is not self governing and therefore not a person. The person in whose body this clump of cells/embryo exists and depends on gets to make the choices. I'm not sure what is so hard to understand about this. I think we can all agree that choice is good, coercion is bad, under any circumstances.
2
"Isn't the withholding of medical information, by a licensed health provider, illegal?"
Let's go into the nearest abortion clinic and look around for flyers on alternatives to abortion, such as adoption information and where to get medical attention and financial help if you decide to continue the pregnancy. Do you think they'll have some on display? Let's try to find a little poster on the wall showing the various stages of fetal development.
Abortion clinics withhold information from women -- the question is, why? Because they really want to abort that baby?
Face it, women are aware of their choices. If they go to an abortion clinic, they have already decided to have an abortion. Even if they don't go to an abortion clinic, they know full well that abortion is an option and that they can get one if they want to. These posts seem to assume that women enter crisis pregnancy centers because they are ignorant little airheads who never heard of abortion before. How insulting!
Let's go into the nearest abortion clinic and look around for flyers on alternatives to abortion, such as adoption information and where to get medical attention and financial help if you decide to continue the pregnancy. Do you think they'll have some on display? Let's try to find a little poster on the wall showing the various stages of fetal development.
Abortion clinics withhold information from women -- the question is, why? Because they really want to abort that baby?
Face it, women are aware of their choices. If they go to an abortion clinic, they have already decided to have an abortion. Even if they don't go to an abortion clinic, they know full well that abortion is an option and that they can get one if they want to. These posts seem to assume that women enter crisis pregnancy centers because they are ignorant little airheads who never heard of abortion before. How insulting!
1
Are all abortion clinics required to post signs that provide information about where a woman can receive help and medical care for keeping her baby? Do they routinely provide information on the adoption alternative? Do abortion clinics show women models of fetuses at various stages of pregnancy so that they can make informed decisions about the state of development of the child they are about to abort? If they withhold this type of information, then the full disclosure and informed decision arguments against pregnancy care clinics are disingenuous.
Unless a clinic is performing actual medical procedures, there is no need of a license in order to give referrals to facilities that provide medical care or to advise women on where they can obtain free diapers or a car seat.
Unless a clinic is performing actual medical procedures, there is no need of a license in order to give referrals to facilities that provide medical care or to advise women on where they can obtain free diapers or a car seat.
4
If they don't, they absolutely should.
1
The irony that the same crowd telling us that "government needs to get out of the reproductive rights of women" is now pushing for it is not lost on me.
5
There is no irony. Women (and men) need government, to continually protect us from medical fraud and protect abortion rights. What we don't need are hypocritical, immoral right-wing politicians attempting to take those rights away.
18
Except this is not about government regulation of reproductive rights. This is about clinics deceiving women and fighting to deny them all the information they would need to make an informed decision about their health. Are you telling me you're 100% ok with these clinics calling themselves medical centers while not disclosing to the women who come to them for medical advice that they aren't staffed by licensed medical professionals, but by what's most likely church volunteers? Clinics like these are providing misinformation and omitting critical information that women need to make a medical decision for themselves. These clinics aren't fighting to get abortion banned, they want the legal right to engage in borderline malpractice (borderline because, again, not all of the staff are licensed) which puts women's health in danger, as well as their sexual partners, since theses clinics also don't provide sex ed or birth control. This is about health in general, not only reproductive rights. This is like doctors refusing to disclose chemo as a viable treatment for cancer because they believe only God can cure cancer. It's utterly ridiculous.
7
Also ironic that the same crowd yelling about "rights" refuses to acknowledge the rights of a fetus.
No one questions the rights of anti-death penalty and anti-war advocates, whose arguments are based on the same premise -- that is, that taking life is wrong.
Which anti-war protesters are being singled out for "false" information? Which anti-death penalty advocates are being barred from expressing their views?
When it comes to abortion, however, people have lost their senses to the point where they would strip away free speech rights without a second thought.
Let me remind Americans: Of course, pro-lifers are entitled to freely advocate.
No one questions the rights of anti-death penalty and anti-war advocates, whose arguments are based on the same premise -- that is, that taking life is wrong.
Which anti-war protesters are being singled out for "false" information? Which anti-death penalty advocates are being barred from expressing their views?
When it comes to abortion, however, people have lost their senses to the point where they would strip away free speech rights without a second thought.
Let me remind Americans: Of course, pro-lifers are entitled to freely advocate.
1
With the Supreme Court poised deliver a fatal blow to Roe V Wade in the upcoming case Whole Woman's Health v. Cole, so called "crisis pregnancy centers" hardly seem necessary to sustain the strategy of the movement. This is another example of their approach to aggressively cover all angles of the issue in America.
If only progressive movements in America could match the relentless grassroots energy of the anti-choice lobby.
If only progressive movements in America could match the relentless grassroots energy of the anti-choice lobby.
8
They don't and can't and won't, because they are lazy and feel "entitled" to abortion.
They are about to learn a harsh lesson.
They are about to learn a harsh lesson.
2
When are we finally going to say that an abortion is NOT healthcare. Why don't you just say it. Not unlike the sanctimonious defense of Planned Parenthood, in light of the their illegal activities, you attack the messenger?? These clinics are necessary for a distraught, emotional woman from making a mistake they may regret for the rest of her life. There is not deceit here. It's called freedom. Let freedom ring. There are other solutions.
9
Well, of course abortion wouldn't be healthcare for you…you're a man. Planned Parenthood was recently found, by a Texas court, to be innocent of those rumored "illegal activities". As per the usual, the courts found the hypocritical, right-wing accusers to be guilty of fraud! Justice and freedom in action!
13
Freedom for who? Not women or girls, obviously, because you are claiming their freedom as yours. If we could just implant the fetus in your belly, now that would "other solutions."
And just to bring you up to date on reality, PPH was found not to have done ANYTHING illegal but those who perpetrated the fraudulent, heavily edited videos you refer to have been charged with fraud.
And just to bring you up to date on reality, PPH was found not to have done ANYTHING illegal but those who perpetrated the fraudulent, heavily edited videos you refer to have been charged with fraud.
10
When was the last time you hoped that little test stick didnt change color? Oh, right. Never....
9
Am I wrong, or are there not laws that prohibit dispensing medical advice without a license?
15
That's never stopped Congress before.
Yeah, that's what I want, politicians giving me my medical options.
Why don't we get rid of the medical profession completely?
Congress is only working 111 days this year. They've got plenty of time to practice medicine. I'm sure all men will gladly line up to have Ryan and Trump perform vasectomies and circumcisions and prostrate exams on the stairs up to the Lincoln Memorial.
And, until I see that - lines of men on those stairs waiting for the knife to slice their valued package by rank amateurs - then I do not recognize Congress's 'right' to rule on MY anatomy.
That's between ME and MY DOCTOR!
Yeah, that's what I want, politicians giving me my medical options.
Why don't we get rid of the medical profession completely?
Congress is only working 111 days this year. They've got plenty of time to practice medicine. I'm sure all men will gladly line up to have Ryan and Trump perform vasectomies and circumcisions and prostrate exams on the stairs up to the Lincoln Memorial.
And, until I see that - lines of men on those stairs waiting for the knife to slice their valued package by rank amateurs - then I do not recognize Congress's 'right' to rule on MY anatomy.
That's between ME and MY DOCTOR!
4
"If she gives birth, she may receive help with diapers and a car seat."
Gee isn't that generous of them. But where's the help with daycare...with other essentials for the baby...extra money for food etc? Nowhere to be found. So yeah, let's try to convince countless girls/women who get pregnant, that they and their kids are better off if the mother does not have an abortion. (Of course, I'm mainly referring to poor/uneducated mothers...)
We see entire neighborhoods and towns that have been ruined by girls/women who are poor and uneducated and have no stable man in the picture, who nonchalantly bring one child after another into this world. The mothers suffer, the kids suffer, and the neighborhoods/towns as a whole suffer. Bearing a child is no small thing, and to successfully raise a well-adjusted, happy, healthy child requires more than 'help with diapers and a car seat'!
Gee isn't that generous of them. But where's the help with daycare...with other essentials for the baby...extra money for food etc? Nowhere to be found. So yeah, let's try to convince countless girls/women who get pregnant, that they and their kids are better off if the mother does not have an abortion. (Of course, I'm mainly referring to poor/uneducated mothers...)
We see entire neighborhoods and towns that have been ruined by girls/women who are poor and uneducated and have no stable man in the picture, who nonchalantly bring one child after another into this world. The mothers suffer, the kids suffer, and the neighborhoods/towns as a whole suffer. Bearing a child is no small thing, and to successfully raise a well-adjusted, happy, healthy child requires more than 'help with diapers and a car seat'!
27
You've seen towns ruined by poor uneducated women who have multiple babies? Source, please.
2
Carole, ever been to Detroit? Source: Detroit. Child abandonment by a parent, has been highly documented to cause irrevocable harm to children and their futures, no matter the race, religion, individually or widespread. Have you never witnessed the lifelong struggles (including early death, joblessness, depression, addiction) of friends/family, abandoned by one of their parents?
"We see entire neighborhoods and towns that have been ruined by girls/women who are poor and uneducated and have no stable man in the picture, who nonchalantly bring one child after another into this world."
The most misogynistic statement I've read in months.
The most misogynistic statement I've read in months.
1
So, does Mr. McClure oppose the laws passed by red state legislatures and signed into law by Republican governors that require Doctors to read state-supplied statements to women and force medically unnecessary ultrasounds on their patients? This is done all in the interest of providing "full information" to women. Well, California is just requiring Mr. McClure and his ilk to provide "full information" to his clients. How about CA change the requirement and just require these sham outfits to just post a sign. black letters on white background, that says "This office does not believe in the legal rights of women to abortion. The constitutionally protected right of a woman to choose such medical services will not be discussed as part of the services we provide." McClure couldn't possibly object to the state requiring him to publicly post the reasons for the existence of his "clinic."
31
To those of you condemning abortion, I was astonished to learn that man anti-abortion people have abortions, urge their mistresses, daughters, son's girlfriends to have abortions. Some protest, have an abortion, and after recovering, return to protesting. All think theirs is a special situation. One woman said she's very opposed to abortion but it was very important for her daughter to graduate on time so it was an exception to her usual beliefs. Of course there's that famous anti-abortion congressman who urged his wife AND mistress to have abortions. After that came out he was still re-elected!
36
It's not "many" and those stories are completely anecdotal -- probably fabricated -- they would be unprovable in any event, due to HIPPA laws.
SOME anti-abortion people have had abortions, but far more are like Sarah Palin and will not even abort when their baby has Downs Syndrome or another serious problem.
BTW: nothing whatsoever about pregnancy would prevent a girl TODAY from attending school -- graduating with her class -- or getting a GED.
SOME anti-abortion people have had abortions, but far more are like Sarah Palin and will not even abort when their baby has Downs Syndrome or another serious problem.
BTW: nothing whatsoever about pregnancy would prevent a girl TODAY from attending school -- graduating with her class -- or getting a GED.
1
Yeah, and just look how great Sarah Palin's kids have turned out!
9
Really? That Congressman admitted to it. And how convenient to say anything you disagree with is fabricated. I personally know a young woman whose boyfriend's "anti abortion" parents urged her to have an abortion--although she didn't. Do you think she fabricated the story?
9
Differences of opinion on moral questions are 100% valid and cannot be legislated. Medical opinion, on the other hand, has a justifiable reason for licensing and regulations. The answer is probably some sort of disclaimer (we are NOT licensed medical professionals and our answers do not constitute legitimate medical advice) and refinement of what constitutes medical advice regarding pregnancy termination.
From a practical standpoint, giving ultrasounds and then presenting unfounded statements regarding the efficacy or side-effects of abortion seems be be very close to practicing medicine without a license.
From a practical standpoint, giving ultrasounds and then presenting unfounded statements regarding the efficacy or side-effects of abortion seems be be very close to practicing medicine without a license.
20
Truth in advertising.
8
lol its never an argument when it comes to poor women, "Free Speech" is always being abused by Health Care Givers, Employers, people who control & inform the desperate
5
Why aren't they required to have doctors with admitting privileges in a hospital? Most Panned Parenthood Centers don't offer abortions but have these extreme laws laid on them.
23
@ Bill - i think it is only PP centers (& other clinics where abortions are performed) that are required to have doctors with admitting privileges under those ridiculous and onerous state laws being shoved onto us. I am way pro-choice, but i think you are incorrect.
2
Thanks dpj, you are right.
Unlicensed clinics, church money to run them, a preset ethos, and junk science--so what else is new in America? The one place in the free world where it is hard to enforce science is the US. Evolution?? Uh, oh! It's a myth. Genetic engineering? The arguments against won't be science to rebut science but it will be that God won't like it. Conception? It occurs as soon as you engage in unprotected sex. Every sperm that swims has a right to life and every ovum that bursts has a right to meet the upstream sperm. These guys want to ban all abortion in America. We have Republicans who will not have abortion even in the instance of conception by rape or incest, even when a mother's life is in danger. The First Amendment, in the hands of the patriarchy, has been used to ruin the country. Citizens United--corporations are people too and have First Amendment rights. The Hobby Lobby decision, where the company said it can refuse to provide, Affordable Care Act mandated, contraception for its employees--argued on the basis of Hobby Lobby's First Amendment rights and religious freedom. The patriarchy's and the oligarchy's 1st amendment rights have infringed on everyone's rights. Free speech should not be free when it is hate speech, lies, deception in advertising, used for corruption, racketeering and bribery and when it manipulates by virtue of omission and is an excuse for incitement and harm. This law, about dissemination of accurate information should be upheld.
19
Aren't there laws on the books in more conservative states that require clinics that do counsel and offer abortions to tell women about the option to adopt, the "dangers" of abortion and even show them pictures of fetuses while describing development? How is that not a free speech issue?
Conservative Hypocrisy once again rears its predictable head.
Conservative Hypocrisy once again rears its predictable head.
16
What I enjoy more than anything is the number of UTTERLY clueless people who invoke the Constitution when it suits them, and ignore it when it doesn't.
Everyone needs to be aware that every single person on the Republican debating stage (and Carly, who is now under it) is for totally removing a woman's right to choose her options, many being clear that even rape, incest, and the health of the mother are not mitigating factors.
Jeb! is particularly hateful - he went to court while governor of Florida to try to force a raped mentally handicapped girl of 14 to carry to term.
If men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament.
Everyone needs to be aware that every single person on the Republican debating stage (and Carly, who is now under it) is for totally removing a woman's right to choose her options, many being clear that even rape, incest, and the health of the mother are not mitigating factors.
Jeb! is particularly hateful - he went to court while governor of Florida to try to force a raped mentally handicapped girl of 14 to carry to term.
If men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament.
24
"If she gives birth, she may receive help with diapers and a car seat." If the Pro-life movement wants women not to abort their babies, they have to give way more support than this. This is a prime example of why it is so important for Women to have rights to over their own bodies.
17
I hope some of you folks understand that you're arguing that pushing religious fundamentalism is more important than honesty, more important than the facts, more important even than helping women.
I thought only the sharia law types you're always yelling about thought that.
Oh, well. I'm sure we all look forward to your rationalizations of what happens after somebody you love has a real bad accident, and you realize all of a sudden that you're in an ER where the docs and nurses don't believe in transfusions.
I thought only the sharia law types you're always yelling about thought that.
Oh, well. I'm sure we all look forward to your rationalizations of what happens after somebody you love has a real bad accident, and you realize all of a sudden that you're in an ER where the docs and nurses don't believe in transfusions.
24
These "clinics" set up shop next door to real medical facilities. They make sure when a woman types in abortion into a Google search- that their place pops up. They are religious fronts that work with adoption agencis too. The website for the one in Englewood, NJ says it gives out Bibles to each woman who walks in. A woman from Louisiana told me that when she was younger she interned at a CPC and was scolded that she didn't convert enough people. She said she didn't know Jesus had a quota. I also have a bigger issue with them being allowed to give out false medical information than posting a sign about abortion on their wall. I also cannot believe that in some states people's tax dollars go to these phony medical facilities. In fact the religious zealots in Congress want to de-fund PP and give our tax dollars to these CPCs instead. Also- check out your local public high school and make sure the child study classes aren't working with these people, as I found out my local HS was. People don't realize that the CPC crowd is the same crowd that terrorizes patients going into abortion clinics. Public schools shouldn't be associating with them.
24
If men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament.
19
Do you even know what a Sacrament is?
3
I think we all know what DD meant migualm.
8
What a dumb statement. Like claiming if women could fight wars, there would be none.
2
If you go to a restaurant in New York and many states you will see signs posted about how to respond to choking -- these are mandated by law.
One can argue that restaurants don't want to tell you about choking hazards or what to do about it -- it's a downer of an idea when they are trying to sell you a meal. But the public has an interest in doing what it can to prevent choking deaths.
Nothing about putting up such a sign violates the owner's right to say anything or nothing about choking -- the owner's speech is not regulated in any way.
Like it or not, the public does have an interest in making sure that pregnant women are aware that abortion is legal and available, and it should be clear that it is better this is known early rather than late.
The sarcastic comment of Barney Frank: "The right to life starts at conception and ends at birth" is sadly all too real. Or perhaps equally put, right-to-lifer's don't seem to care about children's lives, only fetuses.
One can argue that restaurants don't want to tell you about choking hazards or what to do about it -- it's a downer of an idea when they are trying to sell you a meal. But the public has an interest in doing what it can to prevent choking deaths.
Nothing about putting up such a sign violates the owner's right to say anything or nothing about choking -- the owner's speech is not regulated in any way.
Like it or not, the public does have an interest in making sure that pregnant women are aware that abortion is legal and available, and it should be clear that it is better this is known early rather than late.
The sarcastic comment of Barney Frank: "The right to life starts at conception and ends at birth" is sadly all too real. Or perhaps equally put, right-to-lifer's don't seem to care about children's lives, only fetuses.
23
lol I never heard that. He always impressed me with his humor.
3
Restaurants do not exist in order to cause you to choke. Big, big difference.
Do we force no-kill animal shelters to post informations about shelters where strays and pets that have to be placed there can go to be euthanized?
Do we force no-kill animal shelters to post informations about shelters where strays and pets that have to be placed there can go to be euthanized?
1
So not the same thing! Do you really see the world this way? You really don't understand the difference between an already-born being and a clump of cells??
2
I am strongly pro-choice. And it is wrong to force these centers to post information about abortions. Government overreach.
5
Your comment would have value if you gave the reasons for your position. As it stands now, your comment, like so many thought-free attitudes and positions, is useless.
7
Did you know that 20 states have so-called ‘informed consent’ laws that require abortion providers to provide contact information for these very same crisis pregnancy centers to women seeking abortions? That is overreach as well.
8
Exactly how so? Provide a reasoned argument that the First Amendment doesn't apply in ALL cases. IF PP in may Red States is required to tell pregnant women that there are alternatives to abortions, then why shouldn't these religious clinics similarly be required to truthfully disclose ALL the woman's alternatives? Sounds like another tight-faced man who can't stand the thought of women taking control of their own bodies and lives!
8
"If she gives birth, she may receive help with diapers and a car seat." That's nice, I suppose, but it sounds like more assistance before birth than after. And that's the hypocrisy: the dearth of support once the fetus becomes an actual person. Childhood poverty rates in this country are nothing to be proud of. Why infringe existing rights to worsen it?
21
"That's nice, I suppose, but it sounds like more assistance before birth than after."
Puzzling statement. You don't need diapers or car seats before birth.
And the fact that the article includes this sentence does not mean that the article is giving a comprehensive list of all of the services that pregnancy crisis centers offer.
Puzzling statement. You don't need diapers or car seats before birth.
And the fact that the article includes this sentence does not mean that the article is giving a comprehensive list of all of the services that pregnancy crisis centers offer.
Let's just require that they prominently post a nice lke this, then:
You are in a clinic run by religious fundamentalists. We believe that the Bible and our beliefs are more important than medicine, and that you are probably a sinner who's going to sin more if we don't stop you.
Therefore, be advised that we will be lying to you about your medical condition if you are pregnant, and trying very hard to talk you into going home, shutting up, and delivering no matter what you might feel, and no matter what this does to the rest of your life.
After that, we'll maybe help you give the kid up for adoption, or offer you a chit for the local soup kitchen in case you're poor qnd decide to keep them. Sorry, but we can't help you cope with school or your abusive family, let alone provide contraception so this doesn't happen again.
Please be advised that we may need to lie to you for your own good at any time.
Praise Jesus, and have a nice day.
You are in a clinic run by religious fundamentalists. We believe that the Bible and our beliefs are more important than medicine, and that you are probably a sinner who's going to sin more if we don't stop you.
Therefore, be advised that we will be lying to you about your medical condition if you are pregnant, and trying very hard to talk you into going home, shutting up, and delivering no matter what you might feel, and no matter what this does to the rest of your life.
After that, we'll maybe help you give the kid up for adoption, or offer you a chit for the local soup kitchen in case you're poor qnd decide to keep them. Sorry, but we can't help you cope with school or your abusive family, let alone provide contraception so this doesn't happen again.
Please be advised that we may need to lie to you for your own good at any time.
Praise Jesus, and have a nice day.
39
Abortion is the murder of an unborn human being. We have legalized killing innocent humans in this country! How sick are we?! And you are defending this?!!!!! We get all worked up about mass shootings in which adults who can defend themselves are killed. Then, we turn right around and burn an unborn baby in acid. The baby, which has 2x the nerves of an adult per square inch, suffers for hours while burning, writhing in pain. And we smile and call this a "medical procedure for the health of the mother." What about the health of the baby? The baby did not do something foolish to be there, the mother did! That is why we have these clinics, to save lives!!!!
2
@ Trevor - actually, how sick are you that you can't see that other people's choice are none of your business? If you don't believe in abortion, don't get one. But stop foisting your religious beliefs onto the rest of us. A fetus is not a human, and it's not a baby; it's a fetus.
And your comment that the mother did something foolish completely exposes your masculine, misogynistic hypocrisy - what did she impregnate herself? sheesh...
And your comment that the mother did something foolish completely exposes your masculine, misogynistic hypocrisy - what did she impregnate herself? sheesh...
9
My my, Trevor. Really do you think that women spontaneously get pregnant? Honey, why don't you move to a country that agrees with your views. Plenty of countries do not allow abortion. May not be as comfortable as here, but at least you'll be among like minds. Well, at least the men. Bye bye now.
6
Think of a clinic that held itself out as a prostate cancer treatment center but offered prayers and counseling in place of medical treatment. How long would it last before being closed by public health authorities? Why are these clinics not closed for the same reasons -- false advertising and unsupervised medical advice? Why do women have to put up with this?
46
To be fair, they do offer some medical services, which include pregnancy testing, ultrasound, childbirth classes, and some postnatal support. As for the misinformation—and disinformation—that some of these centers are alleged to have disseminated, that is something you can condemn them for.
3
Because of this reason—abortion is murder. I am sick of being soft about this. Abortion is the murder of a human being. That is why they speak out about this.
5
@trevor
One in four women in this country has an abortion. If it is "murder" you really believe that you are surrounded by murderers everywhere you go and in your own family? You're going to build prisons and lock up millions of women?
One in four women in this country has an abortion. If it is "murder" you really believe that you are surrounded by murderers everywhere you go and in your own family? You're going to build prisons and lock up millions of women?
9
So this place is a clinic? Licensed to do what? Most common use of the word "clinic" means medical which means a certain standard of care. Depending on how egregiously that standard of care is not met, penalties range from losing a license (medical and/or business) to liability for poor outcomes. Maybe taking that path could get the "clinics" closed.
8
Are the abortion clinics in the state required to hand out information on the benefits of giving birth and adoptions? Doubtful. On the contrary, it would seem that women who end up in the clutches of one of these clinics are talked into abortions to the exclusion of all other options.
If you're going to demand they get all their options, it needs to go both ways.
If you're going to demand they get all their options, it needs to go both ways.
5
Planned Parenthood offers all options. They do not push abortion as you wingers keep shouting. So, by all means, let's do it both ways
17
Yes. They ARE required to.
13
Please. Learn to read. The laws would only require giving information on the *availability* of low-cost abortion, not the *benefits* of it.
9
C.S.Lewis knew these types:
"“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”
"“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”
8
Free diapers/car seat doesn't come close to the problems a poor woman has in raising a child. Do they even have cars/! Data shows a strong linkage between unwanted births and women/kids in poverty These clinics should track the lives of the children born. How many grow up in poverty, aren't well educated, end up in prison /die earlier than average. Those who want to prevent abortion show little sympathy / support for the children after birth. These parents and children are labeled "welfare queens" and "takers", and there is continual clamoring on the political "Right" to reduce support of programs helping the poor.
I think there are two unspoken and conflicting motives behind abortion prevention: #1 is that these "religious" people believe that poor people should not be having sex and producing more children that they can't afford, so psychologically forcing them to have the child is their "punishment"; #2 There is a segment of the population that wants to maintain a continued source of poor people in need of work creating competition for jobs which justifies low wages . Finally, I challenge every one of these abortion opponents to put their values to work by each of them adopting at least one unwanted child and raising them thru college. At the very least these centers should also offer birth control options to prevent unwanted pregnancy. Otherwise they are just hypocrites.
I think there are two unspoken and conflicting motives behind abortion prevention: #1 is that these "religious" people believe that poor people should not be having sex and producing more children that they can't afford, so psychologically forcing them to have the child is their "punishment"; #2 There is a segment of the population that wants to maintain a continued source of poor people in need of work creating competition for jobs which justifies low wages . Finally, I challenge every one of these abortion opponents to put their values to work by each of them adopting at least one unwanted child and raising them thru college. At the very least these centers should also offer birth control options to prevent unwanted pregnancy. Otherwise they are just hypocrites.
13
americans are obsessed about gay marriage and abortion
i wonder what Freud would have to say about that
i wonder what Freud would have to say about that
1
RELIGIOUS AMERICANS are obsessed about gay marriage and abortion.
There, fixed that for you.
There, fixed that for you.
8
I assume these clinics provide all funding to raise the children born after they fail to provide complete medical advice.
7
Don't be silly. Aren't you aware of the Republican mantra?
"Love the fetus, hate the baby!"
Once that child drops out of you, you're on your own.
"Love the fetus, hate the baby!"
Once that child drops out of you, you're on your own.
7
Because no pregnant woman has ever heard the word "abortion" unless she heard it at a crisis pregnancy center.
1
How is it that a clinic that administers medical tests can be unlicensed? The purpose of licensing is to assure that clinic administrators and workers are qualified to do such testing. These are medical clinics, and medical clinics must be licensed under the law.
12
And since they aren't actually licensed medical facilities they do not offer the women the right to privacy or confidentiality required by actual clinics. Women assume they are talking to a medical practitioner and instead are speaking to someone who has no training, knowledge, or professional/legal standards.
7
It is always men that seem to front these organizations. Is there any question that it is about male dominance and power?
26
lol "are you married? No? Okay then you shouldnt have sex, your still UnClaimed Baggage. A baby machine that must be reLabeled w/a State Authorized Certficate certifying that your only legally obligated to ride one Phallus."
So much for Thou Shalt Not Lie...
19
Abortion is one of the possible treatments for pregnancy. Certainly it's the medically indicated best treatment for an unwanted pregnancy.
NO entity should be allowed to omit any valid treatment option from patients.
This isn't a free speech issue. This is a quality of care issue.
NO entity should be allowed to omit any valid treatment option from patients.
This isn't a free speech issue. This is a quality of care issue.
21
Especially since abortion is safer than pregnancy.
6
Pregnancy is not a disease or a malady.
2
Unless the guilty impregnator has a restraining order, and owns a gun, in which case you better keep a loaded shotgun by your bed and buy a guard dog that doesn't love your ex-boyfriend.
2
If you really want to know what the Bible says about homosexuality, abortion, torture, rape, child-murder, etc, read a book called "Bible Stories Mother Never Told Me" by CL Putnam. It tells what God's VICTIMS thought about his "chosen people".
3
I suppose to a liberal over 1 million dead babies each year isn't enough blood.
Did you know that if you were unlucky enough to be conceived by a liberal woman you have a good chance of being a victim of NUMBER CAUSE OF DEATH in America?
The CDC reports that the number 2 cause of death, heart disease, takes the lives of ONLY 700,000 Americans each year.
Think about that for a moment, it's more deadly to have a liberal mom than a lifetime of fatty foods, no exercise, and obesity. How sad is that?
Did you know that if you were unlucky enough to be conceived by a liberal woman you have a good chance of being a victim of NUMBER CAUSE OF DEATH in America?
The CDC reports that the number 2 cause of death, heart disease, takes the lives of ONLY 700,000 Americans each year.
Think about that for a moment, it's more deadly to have a liberal mom than a lifetime of fatty foods, no exercise, and obesity. How sad is that?
4
They are fetuses not babies. But, yes, we do have a higher percentage of babies dying at birth than many Western nations. Better pre-natal care would be necessary to prevent that. Would you be in favor of paying more taxes for that?
28
You are deluded if you don't believe that just as many "conservative" women choose abortion. One in four women will choose abortion at some time in their lives in this country and they are women of every stripe.
19
Ah but your buddy God kills more babies than anyone else.
12
Do the churches that operate these clinics also offer to pay for the rearing of the resulting children? If not, they are hypocrites who seek only to control women as second class citizens.
20
This seems kind of nutty. Do this mean that businesses need to advertise or explain the services that they don't provide? So, McDonald's will need to advertise or explain to consumers that they don't sell tractors and other types of farming equipment? I can't count the number I of times I've gone into a store or called a store and found out that they didn't sell what I was looking for. What's the big deal? You call or stop into a store or business to inquire about a product or service you, if they don't have it, you get up and walk out. Simple.
7
So, knowing options available when one orders a sandwich is equivalent to knowing those available when making a decision about a medical procedure?
8
It's not nutty if you accept the fact (and it is a fact) that these clinics exist to lie to women and pressure them to give birth.
When McDonald's posts advertisements designed to attract farmers in need of equipment only to berate them about the dangers of farming and hinder their ability to seek actual farming equipment, then, yes, McDonald's should be required to disclose that they don't sell farm equipment. Wow, analogies are really valuable when you do them right!
The big deal is that these clinics are *lying* to women to dissuade them from making a choice. This can also cause a delay in their ability to seek care- and we all know that there's a limited window during which women can seek abortion care. Why can't you see that that is problematic? I'm really tired of men downplaying the issues women face with these pitiful straw-man arguments.
When McDonald's posts advertisements designed to attract farmers in need of equipment only to berate them about the dangers of farming and hinder their ability to seek actual farming equipment, then, yes, McDonald's should be required to disclose that they don't sell farm equipment. Wow, analogies are really valuable when you do them right!
The big deal is that these clinics are *lying* to women to dissuade them from making a choice. This can also cause a delay in their ability to seek care- and we all know that there's a limited window during which women can seek abortion care. Why can't you see that that is problematic? I'm really tired of men downplaying the issues women face with these pitiful straw-man arguments.
8
In all of your experiences out buying McDonalds, farm equipment and other products, did you ever seek medical tests or health advice and find out later the clinic was unlicensed? found out they lied about the causes of cancer to you? dispensed false statistics?
5
Abortions have always been available for the wealthy--for ANY reason. In 1966 (when "abortion" was clearly ILLEGAL) our neighbor's 17 year old daughter got pregnant from an affair with a married man. She and her family were devout Catholics. They were also very wealthy (lived in the Palos Verdes Estates area of S. Calif). The girl received an abortion AT A CATHOLIC HOSPITAL. So please, all you Bible-thumping, bleeding-heart hypocrites, do NOT try to convince anyone that you are "saving babies" with your emotional rants and gory photographs. All you will ever accomplish is to force poor women into the wards of butchers. (Or would that be considered "God's vengeance”?)
35
How could the girl's parents have been devout Catholics and let their daughter have an abortion? Talk about hypocritical. Devout Catholics do not have abortions but have the baby and put the child up for adoption. My mother knew of a Catholic family in Boston whose unmarried daughter many years ago was sent to California to have her baby. I know a priest who was able to arrange the adoption of a family friend's unmarried pregnant daughter's child because the family was pro life and wanted to give the child to a loving home. This family was well to do but could never conceive of killing an innocent life. Adoption is a wonderful option.
A Spanish doctor was ordered to pay for the upkeep of a child after a failed abortion operation meant the boy's mother was obliged to see her pregnancy through to the end. He actually told the woman she was no longer pregnant. Maybe we could apply the same logic to these clinics if a child is born to a woman that was misled at one of them and had a child she could not afford. When people have to put their own money behind strongly held beliefs they find that they don't have the same amount of fervor.
39
Those two things are not equivalent, and it is not clear if the Spanish doctor did a botched abortion on purpose (because he opposed abortion?) or because he made a serious medical mistake, or even if he lied to the woman or just didn't know her pregnancy was still intact.
The women at these clinics are not "misled" and they have every ability to go out and get an abortion, as abortion is legal in all 50 states. They are not imprisoned or tortured, or tied up in the basement of these clinics for 9 months.
Many women are deeply conflicted when a crisis pregnancy occurs, and some of them DO choose to continue the pregnancy. It's not some trickery. I doubt you could find any woman who would come forward and say "yeah, I was TRICKED into having a baby!"
What one can "afford" and not afford are a matter of opinion. Every poor person in America has a fancy smartphone with a pricey data plan; they can afford THAT, but claim they cannot feed their children 3 times a day, even on food stamps.
The women at these clinics are not "misled" and they have every ability to go out and get an abortion, as abortion is legal in all 50 states. They are not imprisoned or tortured, or tied up in the basement of these clinics for 9 months.
Many women are deeply conflicted when a crisis pregnancy occurs, and some of them DO choose to continue the pregnancy. It's not some trickery. I doubt you could find any woman who would come forward and say "yeah, I was TRICKED into having a baby!"
What one can "afford" and not afford are a matter of opinion. Every poor person in America has a fancy smartphone with a pricey data plan; they can afford THAT, but claim they cannot feed their children 3 times a day, even on food stamps.
3
"The women at these clinics are not "misled" and they have every ability to go out and get an abortion, as abortion is legal in all 50 states. They are not imprisoned or tortured, or tied up in the basement of these clinics for 9 months."
You do realize that there is actually data, investigations, and studies that show that you are wrong? Instances of these lies are detailed in the very article you're commenting on. I'm getting really tired of men like you lying to women, and then dismissing their concerns about lying to women.... by lying to them!
You do realize that there is actually data, investigations, and studies that show that you are wrong? Instances of these lies are detailed in the very article you're commenting on. I'm getting really tired of men like you lying to women, and then dismissing their concerns about lying to women.... by lying to them!
5
@ [Un]Concerned - every poor person in America has a smart phone with a fancy data plan? Really? Sounds like you are channeling welfare queens driving Cadilacs to me.
The legality of abortion in all 50 states isn't the issue, accessibility is (duh).
And trickery is posting signs with false or at best misleading "research" that lists "risks" of abortions even though the risks have been completely debunked.
The legality of abortion in all 50 states isn't the issue, accessibility is (duh).
And trickery is posting signs with false or at best misleading "research" that lists "risks" of abortions even though the risks have been completely debunked.
6
I am pro abortion. But requiring that an anti-abortion group post and/or hand out abortion info is nutty. I thought we have free speech? Keep in mind, people who go to these clinics are going by choice. I presume they are not idiots and know what they are doing. They can look up other options that are pro abortion. Seems to me both sides are trying to abuse laws for their respective agendas. Generally the anti-abortion crowd presents itself as protecting freedom from religion imposed upon those not faithful. I agree with this. But in this case, I am troubled to see aspects of the religious right being incorporated by imposing a lack of freedom on others via an abuse of laws. It seems against freedom of choice and American ideas.
8
When an anti-choice group is presenting misinformation, propaganda and outright lies to "patients" [because these are not medical centers although they purport to be] in terms of options, yes, the state must intervene so that they are aware of the full range of options. The state is not making the choice for them but ensuring that women have all the information at hand.
16
Then how about if we require them to post big notices that tell patients a) We are right-wing and fundamentalist Christian, and b) because of this, be advised that we refuse to give you full information about your health, or mention in any way all your medical options?
3
@Steve - You are missing the point entirely. These anti-abortion group storefronts are not clear about their bias. Some ignorant kid would be led to believe a lot of these fronts are Planned Parenthood. Once a young teenaged girl is in their clutches they are on her like vampires. They are baby-cults. And they don't provide birth control information other than abstinence. Get it now? Transparency in advertising is all that's being called for here along with information as to where else to go if a real alternative is sought.
18
I wonder: are abortion clinics required to offer information on keeping pregnancies and adoption options?
8
They do give women their options yes, both for an against having an abortion. These so-called crisis clinics do not however.
6
Nobody has to require it. Planned Parenthood--see the word, "planned?"--always did this.
Something to do with giving women honest info about their choices, I believe.
Something to do with giving women honest info about their choices, I believe.
12
No. They do offer clients a choice of abortion or keeping their baby -- but they do not show them adoption options and may make them seem unattractive. They also encourage promiscuity by taking away every drawback of such behavior -- get pregnant? Oh we'll abort it, even if you've done this 3 times before and refuse to use contraception! STD? no problem, we'll get you antibiotics for that. Being exploited by a man 3 times your age? still no problem -- we won't report "your boyfriend" to police for statutory rape and we'll just keep aborting your pregnancies!
Basically there are two standards: one for pro-abortion clinics, the other for anti-abortion clinics.
Basically there are two standards: one for pro-abortion clinics, the other for anti-abortion clinics.
2
They "believe" that abortion causes breast cancer, science be hanged.
23
RU 486 has been linked to increased risk for certain types of cancer. No long term study was done with the drug, but it was deemed safe anyway.
Since that isn't all abortions and since there is not actual peer-reviewed evidence, the claim that "abortion causes breast cancer" would then be a bald-faced lie.
6
RU 486 is not the sole method of abortion. The only link between cancer and RU486 are some studies showing that it is useful in treating some types of cancer.
7
They're going to fight for their right to mislead and lie to people about their medical options.
33
No, they are not misleading or lying to anyone. What is more misleading, to call a crisis pregnancy center exactly what it is, a place where women can learn about their options in a moment of crisis, or to call an abortion clinic a women's health provider? Healthy women have been bearing children for thousands upon thousands of years and in this modern age, a typical American pregnancy poses no undue risks to a women's health. The baby, on the other hand, certainly poses a risk of great inconvenience and cost. So maybe we should call women's health centers by a different name. Maybe women's last chance birth control centers would be more appropriate. That said, I agree with the State of California - women should know exactly what their options are in these crises situations, and that certainly includes informing them of the fact that free or low cost solutions to their inconvenient pregnancy are available.
2
Of course the fact is that carrying to term is much more dangerous than abortion, but then, you're not much interested in the science.
7
Did you even read the article?
"American pregnancy poses no undue risks to a women's health."
All pregnancies post risks to women's health. All. Only the pregnant women has the right to decide if she takes that risk.
"American pregnancy poses no undue risks to a women's health."
All pregnancies post risks to women's health. All. Only the pregnant women has the right to decide if she takes that risk.
4
These clinics truly are deceptive. I once was looking for birth control and attempted to find a clinic in Virginia. I tried several from the yellow pages. Each time I got a run around when I specifically asked if they provided oral contraceptives. They were very keen to have me visit and meet with a "counselor". I told them I didn't require counseling, but wanted a medical appointment with a prescribing doctor. They asked if I was pregnant, which I was not. I explained that was what I was trying to avoid. Then they were back to counseling appointments again. I told them I did not believe a counselor would be able to prevent conception. That was when I started to get to the facts finally, and they admitted they would not prescribe any oral contraceptives, barrier methods or anything but abstinence and "natural" methods.
I hung up on the first one, glad that I'd avoided taking time off for an "appointment" somewhere that didn't provide the services I needed.
I tried the next, and the next, and the next....it was the same each time, with varying amounts of time to get the truth out of them about whether they offered contraceptives or not.
This wasn't about their "concern" for my health. This was about their imposition of a religious morality dressed up as modern family planning services.
It is deceptive and the clinics should be required to explicitly list what they do and do not offer so women do not waste their time...also to avoid the humiliating lecture.
I hung up on the first one, glad that I'd avoided taking time off for an "appointment" somewhere that didn't provide the services I needed.
I tried the next, and the next, and the next....it was the same each time, with varying amounts of time to get the truth out of them about whether they offered contraceptives or not.
This wasn't about their "concern" for my health. This was about their imposition of a religious morality dressed up as modern family planning services.
It is deceptive and the clinics should be required to explicitly list what they do and do not offer so women do not waste their time...also to avoid the humiliating lecture.
516
Why didn't you just call a doctor? ANY family practice doctor -- internist -- GP -- or OB-GYN can and will prescribe birth control pills or other methods.
Clinics are not always cheaper, anyways. Some make you come back for visit after visit, and only give you enough prescriptions for a few months. Some charge on a sliding scale, which is only helpful if you are dirt poor.
If you had a family doctor, and they knew and trusted you, they may have called in a birth control prescription on the phone to your pharmacy.
I wonder why, after your first experience, you did not simply ask the other clinics "are you religiously run, and if so, do you refuse to prescribe birth control?" because that would have ended the conversations very quickly, and you could have moved on to a real doctor.
Clinics are not always cheaper, anyways. Some make you come back for visit after visit, and only give you enough prescriptions for a few months. Some charge on a sliding scale, which is only helpful if you are dirt poor.
If you had a family doctor, and they knew and trusted you, they may have called in a birth control prescription on the phone to your pharmacy.
I wonder why, after your first experience, you did not simply ask the other clinics "are you religiously run, and if so, do you refuse to prescribe birth control?" because that would have ended the conversations very quickly, and you could have moved on to a real doctor.
3
I understand, I've had the same problem when I go into a car dealership or furniture store and ask for a particular car or piece furniture and when don't have it, they try to sell me something else and they do everything to keep me from leaving the store or dealership. Very annoying. So, what I do is walk out. I recommend the same thing to everybody. It's not worth threatening our First Amendment rights with these nutty laws. Laws can't replace acting on common sense.
24
What is common sense to you may not apply when the pregnant person is a teenager, uneducated, impoverished and unsupported by family and friends. Note that the establishment in question set itself up in a poor area with many immigrants who may not know their rights or how to get information they need.
Now if that used car dealer tells you lies to get you to do what they want, then don't you agree they should be stopped and/or punished?
Now if that used car dealer tells you lies to get you to do what they want, then don't you agree they should be stopped and/or punished?
6
I am so very tired of these pompous and spiritually challenged men, and it always seems to be men, doing their best to block a women's right to have a safe and legal abortion.
I'm old enough to remember when women were having illegal abortions and yes, abortions will continue on into infinity as it always has, in their homes using a coat hanger or swallowing poisons in order to abort. Other women visited the back alley doctors who performed abortions and then were immediately rushed back out to face alone any complications that may arise. As for adoptions that's a joke. The homes for orphans were thriving and most of their faces were the sad, scarred face of the unwanted.
Let's keep abortion safe, legal and easily available. And let's not ever forget there are times when abortions saved lives. The mother's life who just my have a husband and small children at home waiting for her.
I'm old enough to remember when women were having illegal abortions and yes, abortions will continue on into infinity as it always has, in their homes using a coat hanger or swallowing poisons in order to abort. Other women visited the back alley doctors who performed abortions and then were immediately rushed back out to face alone any complications that may arise. As for adoptions that's a joke. The homes for orphans were thriving and most of their faces were the sad, scarred face of the unwanted.
Let's keep abortion safe, legal and easily available. And let's not ever forget there are times when abortions saved lives. The mother's life who just my have a husband and small children at home waiting for her.
107
As noted by one of the comments below - most of these wing nuts are men who were motivated by being jilted by a relationship or even a divorce. They've converted their stalking of one woman to all women- maybe their probation officer recommended this 'constructive projection' of their original psychosis.
41
Actually, that is not true. Most of these clinics are staffed BY WOMEN. Most protestors at abortion clinics ARE WOMEN.
There are actually groups called things like "Feminists Against Abortion" and the like.
Also: the change in the number of adoptable infants was not just or mostly abortion, but a change in social mores that permitted more and more women to KEEP their illegitimate babies and raise them as single moms on welfare. So today, we have lots of children born out of wedlock (compared to say 1950) but today, almost ALL OF THEM are kept by their mothers (and raised in poverty). Then, as now, only "certain children" were considered adoptable -- healthy, white, cute, very young infants or toddlers.
Today, abortion does NOT save any lives. An abortion for the health of the mother is exceedingly rare. 99.5% abortions are done on completely healthy young women, with completely healthy pregnancies that would have produced normal health children.
There are actually groups called things like "Feminists Against Abortion" and the like.
Also: the change in the number of adoptable infants was not just or mostly abortion, but a change in social mores that permitted more and more women to KEEP their illegitimate babies and raise them as single moms on welfare. So today, we have lots of children born out of wedlock (compared to say 1950) but today, almost ALL OF THEM are kept by their mothers (and raised in poverty). Then, as now, only "certain children" were considered adoptable -- healthy, white, cute, very young infants or toddlers.
Today, abortion does NOT save any lives. An abortion for the health of the mother is exceedingly rare. 99.5% abortions are done on completely healthy young women, with completely healthy pregnancies that would have produced normal health children.
1
"Today, abortion does NOT save any lives. An abortion for the health of the mother is exceedingly rare. 99.5% abortions are done on completely healthy young women, with completely healthy pregnancies that would have produced normal health children."
Citation needed. Thanks in advance.
Citation needed. Thanks in advance.
4
I cannot believe that the government would force pregnancy centers who are run by people who are opposed to abortion, to provide information on abortion. Especially when the woman can use Google to get the information.
8
@Joseph in Albany - The government is simply requiring transparent disclosure. Would it be legal for a cancer clinic that didn't refer to hospitals for care and treatment but only referred to Christian Science to operate as a 'cancer center.' Don't think so. Lying is not a right when it involves dispensing medical advice. How about 'tax centers' that advise people not to pay their taxes but to donate to their church instead? Would you like to find out that the tax accountant you went to wasn't even a certified preparer? They were simply some jerk who felt strongly about their personal vision from god?
50
Hi Joseph - I can't believe that the government gives these 'centers' tax exempt status to dip into my tax pocket to fund their destructive and deceitful practices. Any con artist criminal could use the 'defense' you provide, ''Your honor I'm innocent of fraud because my rube victim sucker could find the true information on the web via Google. LOL.
45
Destructive and deceitful practices to carry a baby to term? You sound as if this clinic is trying to get women to engage in a crime.
2
The social change is an indispensable part of a modernized and developed world. Look at the LGBT rights a 100 years ago and today - the society learns and progresses. The acceptance and understanding of other people's choices makes us who we are today. How is one country can be socially advanced in one aspect of its culture and so shamelessly behind in another? Any woman making THE decision has to fully understand the consequences and all risks involved no matter what she decides.
3
The joys of being a libertarian. I anger Republicans/Conservatives because I support abortion rights. I anger Democrats/Liberals because I support the Second Amendment. It is interesting that each side uses many of the same tactics to restrict rights they disagree with.
4
Aardvark - on Long Island - this issue has nothing to do with your 'enjoyment' unless your embrace of 'libertarian' philosophy encompasses the right to lie and cheat others of their life and free medical choices. A wild guess - your detachment is aided and abetted by there being no chance of your becoming pregnant.
23
The difference is one idiot (male) with a gun killing 25 kids in a school vs one frightened woman and a fetus. not quite equal to my way of thinking.
These clinics have every right to dispense advice as they see fit.
In their capacity as counsellors they can recommend whatever course of action they deem fit. In their capacity as private citizens they can advocate for any religious beliefs they hold dear. And in their capacity as medical providers they can recommend a particular course of care.
And if someone really wants an abortion, it is not exactly a well-kept secret.
In their capacity as counsellors they can recommend whatever course of action they deem fit. In their capacity as private citizens they can advocate for any religious beliefs they hold dear. And in their capacity as medical providers they can recommend a particular course of care.
And if someone really wants an abortion, it is not exactly a well-kept secret.
5
In their capacity as medical providers they have a responsibility to offer all valid options to their patent. They can recommend one over another, but they have no right to lie to their patient.
6
Except they are not allowed to dispense advice "as they see fit". Most of these clinincs aren't even run by licensed medical professionals; they're made up of volunteers from church. Who are these people to provide ANY medical advice in the first place? They're not counsellors; they're salesmen peddling their own half-truths.
13
... Unless you're a mildly naive but well-meaning teenage girl from a small town who grew up in a hyper-religious family that didn't talk about anything related to sex, let alone the options regarding abortions or birth control. There are worlds that exist outside of your own personal experiences.
6
Mother Theresa would be proud. Keep them poor and pregnant, and give them a pallet on the floor on which to die. That was her prescription for her constituents. The ignorance and hideous consequences of her "clinics" are on display in the favelas and ghettoes around the world. Greater injustice the world has seldom known than to deny a woman the right to control her own reproduction, and is one of the first resources of tyrannical governments and dogma-bound religious chicanery.
39
I was taught in a parochial school that if I came upon an unbaptized child who was dying and I sprinkled water on its forehead and uttered, "I baptized thee in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost," I was assured a place in heaven. Perhaps anti-abortionists believe they can go to heaven by saving a child. In my case, I couldn't find available water to save the child and I lost a ticket to eternal bliss.
7
Fighting for what you believe and passing those beliefs onto a woman who is scared and needs help, is in no way wrong.
No decision is being made for them, they are just getting help... And please...who doesn't know abortion is an option, that's a pathetic argument.
“You made all the delicate, inner parts of my body and knit me together in my mother’s womb. Thank you for making me so wonderfully complex! Your workmanship is marvelous—how well I know it. You watched me as I was being formed in utter seclusion, as I was woven together in the dark of the womb. You saw me before I was born. Every day of my life was recorded in your book. Every moment was laid out before a single day had passed.”
Psalms 139:13-16 NLT
http://bible.com/116/psa.139.13-16.nlt
No decision is being made for them, they are just getting help... And please...who doesn't know abortion is an option, that's a pathetic argument.
“You made all the delicate, inner parts of my body and knit me together in my mother’s womb. Thank you for making me so wonderfully complex! Your workmanship is marvelous—how well I know it. You watched me as I was being formed in utter seclusion, as I was woven together in the dark of the womb. You saw me before I was born. Every day of my life was recorded in your book. Every moment was laid out before a single day had passed.”
Psalms 139:13-16 NLT
http://bible.com/116/psa.139.13-16.nlt
6
Prolife - Fighting for ''what you believe'' by deceiving a child seeking out objective adult advice and alternative options these 'emergency storefronts' provide is criminal in my view. You're practicing deception and deceit, all in 'defense of your 'higher' purpose' - - NOT! Your are lying and deceiving and breaking the law and causing life consequences harm. People use your rationale for shooting doctors in their church - 'fighting for what they believe.' Your 'belief' is a poisonous zealotry to the rest of us and all we're demanding is fair and notorious disclosure by you of your devious agenda.
60
Prolife- Please publish your home address so that all the young women suckered into carrying pregnancies they cannot afford to raise to term can forward you their food, medical and education bills and reimburse my local taxes which have blown past their 'tax cap,' thanks to zealots like yourself foisting your delusions on the rest of us.
57
Prolife there in Minnesota: It's good that you are happy believing what you do, but others also have a right to their beliefs. Abortion is not a "good" thing, but it can be the better choice when a woman is trapped in an unwanted, or perhaps, dangerous pregnancy. I fail to understand how anyone besides the woman whose very life is sometimes threatened by a pregnancy can deny her that right. And, by the way...If God is indeed making and supervising all those delicate parts, why are babies born with horrendous birth defects? Why does God do that?
136
Why is it whenever anyone sues for Freedom of Speech it's so they can keep lying to people?
21
As a retired doctor, I've had more than a handful of zealots buttonhole me on this issue, and when I have probed the personal experiences that might have initiated the 'anti-abortion' cause in each of these individuals it revolved around their obsession with their personal seed being rejected by the woman they were 'showering with their affections.' Unrequited obsession can lie at the root of some of mankind's most foolish and poorly thought out actions and policies.
45
So, you only spoke to males about this? Interesting.
2
You can read it right here in the pro lifer comments. Love God? Love my seed. It's in the bible. etc.
9
@Fern - it's pretty clear that the guys seeking out Doc were men who are by nature more aggressive about confronting others on their abortion religious beliefs. What's so interesting about that? Who's the woman in the photo of the director of the 'East County Pregnancy Clinic' pictured with the article? Oh, it's a guy, gosh, interesting.
6
Seems like they are breaking the law, and violating civil rights. Who is suing them?
19
Where's the Attorney General and the Justice Department.
3
These clinics are posing as medical centers where pregnant women come for a pregnancy test and other information relevant to childbirth. The clinics, and the doctors, nurses and other staff, should be regulated in the same way as any other medical practice or hospital.
Free speech has nothing to do with it. This is the same as religious employers trying to deny women reproductive health care. The law should be clear on this and violators should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. End of story.
Free speech has nothing to do with it. This is the same as religious employers trying to deny women reproductive health care. The law should be clear on this and violators should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. End of story.
33
Interesting that doctors are not required to post information about ALL pregnancy centers that would be willing to offer help for a mother...
Interesting that most obgyn refuse to acknowledge FAM and NFP are effective and reasonable forms of birth control. I know one lady whose Doctor laughed and mocked her for considering FAM; in the end she ended up using the pill for many years and then became lost her ovulation and periods after getting off the drugs and spend years in fertility treatments trying to get her body to work again. Too bad her doctor didn't mention THAT risk in using the pill.
Interesting that most obgyn refuse to acknowledge FAM and NFP are effective and reasonable forms of birth control. I know one lady whose Doctor laughed and mocked her for considering FAM; in the end she ended up using the pill for many years and then became lost her ovulation and periods after getting off the drugs and spend years in fertility treatments trying to get her body to work again. Too bad her doctor didn't mention THAT risk in using the pill.
It is not a doctor's job to do any of that since s/he is dealing with one patient at a time.
It's a fact that so-called "natural" family "planning" has resulted in millions of unwanted pregnancies. When that happens, the pregnant female then has to decide whether to abort or not.
Taking birth control pills did not cause your example's infertility. She probably didn't need them, but didn't find that out until later when she DECIDED to become pregnant.
It's a fact that so-called "natural" family "planning" has resulted in millions of unwanted pregnancies. When that happens, the pregnant female then has to decide whether to abort or not.
Taking birth control pills did not cause your example's infertility. She probably didn't need them, but didn't find that out until later when she DECIDED to become pregnant.
7
can you imagine the same coercion and lies at a Planned Parenthood??? Some staff person extolling the ease and simplicity of an abortion??? Some nurse telling a poor 16 year old girl that she has no choice but to abort or she is a terrible person. Giving out false medication information that there is never a complication with abortion etc...I mean the stark contrast between these two groups is astonishing and pregnancy centers should be shut down if they do not provide medical facts.
31
Have you ever been to a pregnancy center and actually talked to one of their counsellors? Maybe you should sit down and ask them to walk you through their information like they do a pregnant woman. You might be surprised.
4
These same zealot obsessives are petitioning for their right to make false, defamatory, intentionally deceptive movies about Planned Parenthood, and then disseminate them under 'free speech' - which is exactly not what free speech protects. The courts laugh them out, and they act hurt and persecuted. They are evil little men who should be locked up and provided with intensive counseling before they act out and shoot a doctor or woman.
5
Except that's not what happens. Not even close.
1
As long as people are intoxicated by that poison called religion, they are going to act like this. The people against abortion are the same people whom agree with sending young kids as soldiers to die or get maimed for life, to countries that didn't do anything wrong to us, with the excuse that it's to keep our way of life and saveguard our freedoms. We didn't make it in Korea, we lost VietNam and Iraq. What happened then with our way of life and our freedoms? There still there, because the whole story was to justify spending more for the military-industrial complex. As long as we have christian a majority in our country with their falsehoods and hypocrisy, we are going to have these problems...
23
Absolutely agree.
5
I would have no problem with anyone who helps a pregnant woman and is upfront about the services offered. I support anyone who is truly focused on helping women.
If the main goal is to aid fetuses, say so.
Advertise yourself as an Abortion Alternative crisis counseling center, and there's no foul. Advertise yourself as a health clinic, you need to be a health clinic, and let women know all their options, and actually provide a range of health services. Advertise yourself as a crisis counseling center, then you need to provide a full range of counseling.
I am tired of the idea that it is OK for people involved in the anti-abortion movement to lie to women, to infantilize them, to propagandize, in order to serve their own need to evangelize, based on their own belief that fetuses have greater rights than the women carrying them. I won't argue with the viewpoint - it is deeply personal and based on deep convictions - but I do argue with the ethics and morality of lying by omission to forward a personal goal. Just tell the truth, cut the propaganda. If the argument is strong enough, it will win without deception.
If the main goal is to aid fetuses, say so.
Advertise yourself as an Abortion Alternative crisis counseling center, and there's no foul. Advertise yourself as a health clinic, you need to be a health clinic, and let women know all their options, and actually provide a range of health services. Advertise yourself as a crisis counseling center, then you need to provide a full range of counseling.
I am tired of the idea that it is OK for people involved in the anti-abortion movement to lie to women, to infantilize them, to propagandize, in order to serve their own need to evangelize, based on their own belief that fetuses have greater rights than the women carrying them. I won't argue with the viewpoint - it is deeply personal and based on deep convictions - but I do argue with the ethics and morality of lying by omission to forward a personal goal. Just tell the truth, cut the propaganda. If the argument is strong enough, it will win without deception.
123
Yes! Truth in advertising avoids the whole problem. Unfortunately, I think they are actually trying to deceive because they want to get women in who might consider an abortion and stop them from doing that. So being truthful would undercut their goal.
4
The idea that such places are "lying" is highly exaggerated. But even if they did lie, the women are not held captive. They can go home and change their minds, and go to any OB-GYN or clinic to arrange for an abortion. Abortion is legal in all 50 states and for 43 years.
The ones I have seen locally DO call themselves "Crisis Pregnancy COUNSELING" or "Pregnancy ALTERNATIVES" or similar names. Their websites are full of religious imagery and phrasing. You'd have to be awfully dumb to think they were ABORTION clinics. They offer help, and not shaming about sex, and if a woman wants to keep her child, they do offer services. And nobody is forced to go to such places; I don't see them kidnapping pregnant women off the streets.
The ones I have seen locally DO call themselves "Crisis Pregnancy COUNSELING" or "Pregnancy ALTERNATIVES" or similar names. Their websites are full of religious imagery and phrasing. You'd have to be awfully dumb to think they were ABORTION clinics. They offer help, and not shaming about sex, and if a woman wants to keep her child, they do offer services. And nobody is forced to go to such places; I don't see them kidnapping pregnant women off the streets.
2
Again with your lying and willful ignorance. What is it like to hate women so much that you refuse to listen to them or their experiences, and instead insist that they are dumb, or wrong, or hysterical, and advocate for laws that will harm them?
Seek help. Mental health care is for everyone.
Seek help. Mental health care is for everyone.
9
There are places that give women pregnancy tests, offer consoling about a woman's options, give prenatal care, give birth control information and offer the truth about abortions and the are called Planned Parenthood!!!!! Any medical information and care a woman may need is offered by Planned Parenthood. There is no need for these deceptive clinics that lure women in and then shame them out of the options they need. Close them down!!!
45
Do these guys love life so much they are willing to protest the sale of cigarettes at a convenience store?
If they're sincere, the answer would be "yes" in bold upper case letters.
If they're sincere, the answer would be "yes" in bold upper case letters.
21
Or how about the sale of guns? These self-righteous hypocrites have no shame.
24
They're protesting the life, of a baby with no voice and no choice. You better believe if I saw someone cramming cigarettes down a child's throat I'd protest, but if you as an adult with no other person living inside you want to have one Be My Guest... although I think it's terrible for your health, but at least You had the choice
There is a mountain of evidence that second hand smoke is bad for children and is related to a whole host of health problems throughout the life of the child, even after they've grown up and moved away from the smoking parent. So get down to the convenience store...
2
They are disseminating false information to browbeat young women into giving birth. There is no evidence of increased risk of breast cancer when one gets an abortion. That and that alone is probably the deciding factor in changing their minds. How is this moral?
37
Please prove there is no link. Since there has been no long term study for patients that have taken RU 486, you really can't prove anything. Can you?
That is sort of the point. You can't claim that something causes cancer just because no one has ever done a long term study to prove that it doesn't. And besides, keep in mind, no one is taking RU 486 over and over again. They are using it once. So it's not like your body is exposed to the drug repeatedly anyway. The likelihood of taking a drug once being that dangerous is ridiculous stretching. Can you name a single drug that taken once, in the course of your life, at normal dosage, increases your chance of cancer?
66
OK, after you show me how to prove a negative.
2
Something I have never understood, and do not expect ever to understand, is why these people, if they believe their cause is just and god is on their side, feel they constantly need to resort to deception and lies to make their case. Do they think ANY action is justified, as long as it prevents an abortion? Someone please respond here.
28
What do you mean ANY action? Offering a car seat to a new mother without resources? Yes, that is pure evil.
2
Lying to her about getting breast cancer is pretty evil, Gabe.
12
Have you ever been in one of the clinics? Have you ever asked them to give you the pitch they give pregnant women?
Have you ever read a NFP or FAM book on family planning? Have you ever talked to someone who a accurately used these methods? I use FAM (for 5 years now) and have successfully avoided pregnancy when we were avoiding and successfully achieved pregnancy when trying. And I can give you a long list of others I know who have also.
Before you toot someone else's horn, perhaps you should first get "primary source" education about the subjects you are so against. I'm not saying you are wrong to voice your opinion, but if it's simply founded on an article you read or something you heard on the radio or tv then it's not coming from primary resources and is thus full of prejudice and bias (even if it tried not to be). This is why, all through school, you teacher and profs insisted on using primary resources foremost in papers written and presentations given. Educate yourself and come to your own conclusions.
Have you ever read a NFP or FAM book on family planning? Have you ever talked to someone who a accurately used these methods? I use FAM (for 5 years now) and have successfully avoided pregnancy when we were avoiding and successfully achieved pregnancy when trying. And I can give you a long list of others I know who have also.
Before you toot someone else's horn, perhaps you should first get "primary source" education about the subjects you are so against. I'm not saying you are wrong to voice your opinion, but if it's simply founded on an article you read or something you heard on the radio or tv then it's not coming from primary resources and is thus full of prejudice and bias (even if it tried not to be). This is why, all through school, you teacher and profs insisted on using primary resources foremost in papers written and presentations given. Educate yourself and come to your own conclusions.
False advertising is a crime. So is bait-and-switch. They should not be allowed to masquerade as clinics because they arent clinics. They dont support womens health or mens health. Their signage should reflect that. Somethng like 'We do not offer obstetrical or gynecological care.' or 'Faith - based counseling services'
37
But at least of them DO -- they have a doctor or nurse-practitioner on staff. They DO offer prenatal care or direct clients to free or low cost prenatal care.
Most abortion clinics don't have anything more than that. Their "staff" are not doctors and nurses. Most have a nurse-practitioner, who comes in a few days a week to do the actual abortions, but the "counselors" are just lay people, often without even a psychology background.
Most abortion clinics don't have anything more than that. Their "staff" are not doctors and nurses. Most have a nurse-practitioner, who comes in a few days a week to do the actual abortions, but the "counselors" are just lay people, often without even a psychology background.
1
"Most abortion clinics don't have anything more than that. Their "staff" are not doctors and nurses."
Citation needed. Thanks in advance.
Citation needed. Thanks in advance.
3
In this day and age, and political season with all the talk about women's rights as well as social media and the individual's network of friends and family, all women know about abortions and planned parenthood. If she wants an abortion she knows she can get it and go somewhere else. Move along folks nothing here.
4
Not a surprising comment coming from someone who will never experience an unwanted pregnancy.
13
Your argument is disingenuous at best, just as these clinics are. People are going there to get information on all of their options, not to be convinced to keep the baby by people with their own agendas...
12
Only those guilty of a crime use your line, Mike Lee - Children I've had as patients have revealed the deepest ignorance of birth control, pre-natal care, and the nature of medicine and medical alternatives available to them. Congratulations, sir, because your condescending attitude has succeeded in breeding a society of ignorant and tragically poorly equipped child bearing individuals.
24
There should be a law against those that misinform women. It burns my bra.
The fight is far from over ladies, be aware.
The fight is far from over ladies, be aware.
25
One responder to this column posited that these so-called pregnancy centers should pay taxes in order for the taxpayer (you & me), can recover the regulation & prosecution costs.
I would like to include recovering the costs to the state of housing an unwanted person in foster care and/or prison during his/her lifetime.
I would like to include recovering the costs to the state of housing an unwanted person in foster care and/or prison during his/her lifetime.
23
Tax all religions on all property and assets they own - it has nothing whatsoever to do with their freedom of expression. It is an outrage that this nation has created a class of tax exempt parasites who are subsidized in proselytizing their beliefs by my taxes as local taxes cannot be provided on a 'deficit' basis. In other words I pay for the 'Alight Clinic' in Huntington whether I agree with them or not because they're allowed a 501C3 status. They are out of our tax base, and therefore out of my pocket.
28
Agree. Religion's part of the bargain is not being kept. Tax them just lke any other political organization.
13
These outfits are targeting poor, young, uneducated, perhaps underage women, in fragile states of mind, with the sole purpose of subjecting them to unsolicited verbal harassment, one-on-one face-to-face. Who knows what else? Who knows how many unreported rapes have already occurred under the guise of free speech?
Their behavior comes very close to stalking but stop slightly short, in that the outfits set themselves up for easy discovery at busy nearby intersections instead of going all the way. SO: what California really need to do is amend their stalking laws accordingly, and shut these guys once and for all. As for PP, they need to up their game on making pregnancy test kits more easily accessible to the same unfortunate minority that these outfits are targeting.
Their behavior comes very close to stalking but stop slightly short, in that the outfits set themselves up for easy discovery at busy nearby intersections instead of going all the way. SO: what California really need to do is amend their stalking laws accordingly, and shut these guys once and for all. As for PP, they need to up their game on making pregnancy test kits more easily accessible to the same unfortunate minority that these outfits are targeting.
31
They leave the 'stalking' to the real life boyfriends, if they're around.
7
Rapes under the guise of free speech? Setting up an operation of one sort or another at a busy intersection is "stalking"?
Huh?
Huh?
1
@ Fern - Yes, as a matter of fact, stalkers are thickest at busy intersections, they also frequent and cruise bus terminals and train stations along with serial murderers. Creepy isn't it. This fellow in the photo makes my skin crawl. I wouldn't want Josh 'consoling' my teenaged daughter. Creepy. Stalking. Precisely. Intimate, invasive, creepy.
2
Should any one of the Republican contenders win the Presidency, it would be his/her goal to shut down any clinic offering pregnancy termination. The Supreme Court decision looms large over all of this.
Why are these people running these "pregnancy clinics" not charged with medical fraud, or at the very least practicing medicine without the legal credentials required?
Interesting that these sorts of people want no rules applied to them, and restrictions of every kind applied to clinics providing pregnancy terminations.
Young women, please vote as if your life depended on it, because it might.
Why are these people running these "pregnancy clinics" not charged with medical fraud, or at the very least practicing medicine without the legal credentials required?
Interesting that these sorts of people want no rules applied to them, and restrictions of every kind applied to clinics providing pregnancy terminations.
Young women, please vote as if your life depended on it, because it might.
81
If states think it's okay force women to see ultrasounds of their fetuses and force doctors to read from a script about terminating a pregnancy, why can't "crisis centers" be forced to post information on clinics that provide abortions and birth control? What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
93
Agreed, this is a similar demand that women have all the pertinent information.
2
@Fern - Opening misrepresentative 'crisis centers' that market to young women and then giving them only the information propagandistic religious zealots believe, and not being transparent right at the entrance regarding who funds these 'centers' and with what objectives is the issue. Don't try to sidestep it. That's just more deception.
7
Only if it is mandated FAIRLY on both sides -- the lefty liberals here wish to restrict crisis pregnancy centers but give 100% free reign to Planned Parenthood and pro-abortion groups.
1
Oh, all of a sudden they care about free speech. But they still want doctors who do abortions to have to follow a script. Sucks when you get backhanded with your own law.
122
It is no different than their cries of "religious freedom", which they interpret as their freedom to impose their beliefs on the rest of us.
12
It seems to me that the same tactics that are used against abortion centers could be used here. Women picketing in front of these clinics with signs and offers of help. Without the physical confrontation or lurid signs that anti-abortionists use, they could simply be there to inform arriving clients that the option of abortion would not be offered here so, "ask me."
It is outrageous that these centers don't off contraception except for "natural" methods. There's a word for people who use the rhythm method. They're called parents.
It is outrageous that these centers don't off contraception except for "natural" methods. There's a word for people who use the rhythm method. They're called parents.
28
It's actually documented that people attempting to protest and picket in front of such operations are subject to harassment from 'sympathetic' local sheriffs and other law enforcement- the same ones who have to be forced by injunction to protect Planned Parenthood.
10
These mock "clinics" are openly engaging in deceptive advertising, bait-and-switch division, and should face charges and punishment. Corrupt evangelical businesses must be held to at least the same legal and moral standards as a used-car dealer.
34
WOW!
The bias of the NYT and its readers is clearly evident in the headline and initial comments....
Not wanting to promote abortion services is portrayed as an effort to deny someone their right to find that information.
Helping mothers understand their options other than terminating the life developing in them really brings out deep seated emotions of those that see another life as unwanted.
The bias of the NYT and its readers is clearly evident in the headline and initial comments....
Not wanting to promote abortion services is portrayed as an effort to deny someone their right to find that information.
Helping mothers understand their options other than terminating the life developing in them really brings out deep seated emotions of those that see another life as unwanted.
4
The self-described clinics are providing misinformation about abortions. This is a legitimate area of state interest, as we all must bear the substantial cost to society of a child brought unintentionally into the world.
These "clinics" are likely to have a profound negative effect on the lives of these women and the children that they are coerced into bearing.
These "clinics" are likely to have a profound negative effect on the lives of these women and the children that they are coerced into bearing.
24
These organizations pose as health care centers, but are really store front churches. Why are they allowed to mislead the public?
Providing information about the range of options, including abortion, is the obligation of any health care professional responding to a woman who wonders what she will do when she becomes pregnant. A professional is also obligated to help the woman do what SHE believes is best, and not to force an agenda on her either way. Further, health care professionals are obligated to provide accurate information, even if it does not agree with their own personal wishes. Suggesting abortion is associated with increased breast cancer, e.g., is unethical and incompetent.
Providing information about the range of options, including abortion, is the obligation of any health care professional responding to a woman who wonders what she will do when she becomes pregnant. A professional is also obligated to help the woman do what SHE believes is best, and not to force an agenda on her either way. Further, health care professionals are obligated to provide accurate information, even if it does not agree with their own personal wishes. Suggesting abortion is associated with increased breast cancer, e.g., is unethical and incompetent.
23
Does the right to freedom of speech protect the right to lie? That's the main question here. Okay, in lots of cases, it does.
But if there's an emergency, and someone tells a lie that falsely purports to offer help to someone who needs help and then does not help that person, it is less clear whether free speech rights cover that case. I think there's a point at it does not.
Whether a woman wants to have a child (or "another life" as you say) is up to her.
But if there's an emergency, and someone tells a lie that falsely purports to offer help to someone who needs help and then does not help that person, it is less clear whether free speech rights cover that case. I think there's a point at it does not.
Whether a woman wants to have a child (or "another life" as you say) is up to her.
15
Businesses are required, at least in New Jersey, to post certain materials about employees' rights. Would this too be a first amendment violation?
...Andrew
...Andrew
5
Wait. You are free to dispense health advice and information to the general public without a license? Without having to meet any legal qualifications at all? You don't even need to pass a criminal background check?
32
Then why are doctors in my state forced BY LAW to babble anti-abortion nonsense, to any patient who wants an abortion?
100
These clinics and what they are offering are not in women's best interests. Forget about the abortion issue, they are not offering all options available for birth control to women. Abstinence is just one option and one that doesn't work if you want to have intercourse with your partner. I'd love to know what the "natural" methods are considering that one is coitus interruptus and the other is rhythm which definitely doesn't work well.
These clinics sound like they are offering nothing more than quackery to women who need real advice and real choices. What do they tell a woman who has been told not to have another child because it could kill her? What do they tell the woman who is pregnant as a result of rape? If life is so sacred to these people they ought to consider the fact that the embryo and fetus as well as the newborn depend upon a few simple facts: the ability to survive in utero, the ability, once born, to survive outside the uterus, and the ability and willingness of the woman to carry the pregnancy to term. There is nothing more unfair to a family or a child than being unwanted, unloved, given up for adoption and unloved. To those of us who were raised with the certain knowledge that we were not wanted, told we were not lovable, or told that it's the fault of the abortion laws that we are here, nothing is clearer than the fact that being wanted and loved is one of the most important prerequisites for a successful life.
These clinics sound like they are offering nothing more than quackery to women who need real advice and real choices. What do they tell a woman who has been told not to have another child because it could kill her? What do they tell the woman who is pregnant as a result of rape? If life is so sacred to these people they ought to consider the fact that the embryo and fetus as well as the newborn depend upon a few simple facts: the ability to survive in utero, the ability, once born, to survive outside the uterus, and the ability and willingness of the woman to carry the pregnancy to term. There is nothing more unfair to a family or a child than being unwanted, unloved, given up for adoption and unloved. To those of us who were raised with the certain knowledge that we were not wanted, told we were not lovable, or told that it's the fault of the abortion laws that we are here, nothing is clearer than the fact that being wanted and loved is one of the most important prerequisites for a successful life.
33
If it quacks like a quack it is a quack. These 'experts' are simply irresponsible religious zealots and psychologically obsessed misfits.
15
I doubt thery are advising coitus interruptus. You know, the sin of Onan and all...
1
The same folks who enable unwanted children complain about too many people relying on public assistance...
55
If they can do this, why can't they compel any private institution or person to participate in providing the actual abortion referrals. If this law is upheld, then why can't California then just update the law to state "California encourages you to immediately leave this facility and contact your county social services office at [insert the telephone number] to arrange for an abortion."
1
If I've said it once I've said it a hundred times. The majority of white married mothers, daughters, sisters, female friends and colleagues vote republican (the daddy party). When American women lose their right to make their own healthcare decisions they will have absolutely no one on this planet to blame but themselves.
17
The rollback of reproduction rights in many states is based on actions of GOP-led legislatures. It's most important to vote in local elections. Expecting a Dem president to solve this march backward is too much.
6
I don't understand why a woman couldn't sue these false clinics for impersonating medically licensed professionals and dispensing advice. Shouldn't there be legal recourse?
31
As much as I'm frustrated to see these highly questionable organizations get off the hook, I'm afraid they're clearly protected on First Amendment grounds.
That being said, I'd recommend taking a page form the pro-life lobby. Why not drive them out of business with burdensome, expensive, superfluous regulations? They are in the business of dispensing medical advice, so I'd recommend that they be required to have doctors with admitting privileges at local hospitals for starters.
That being said, I'd recommend taking a page form the pro-life lobby. Why not drive them out of business with burdensome, expensive, superfluous regulations? They are in the business of dispensing medical advice, so I'd recommend that they be required to have doctors with admitting privileges at local hospitals for starters.
49
Well, you know they're not providing surgical procedures like Planned Parenthood is when killing little boys and girls and sometimes mothers and then dissecting them and selling the little boys' and girls' body parts to only God knows who rather than giving them a decent religious burial they deserve.
3
Little boys and girls? They are zygotes whose sex is not even determined. We have been using fetal tissue for research since 1940s, and you're just now getting mad?
15
In an emergency, if someone falsely purports to provide help and then doesn't, then it's less clear that the lie is protected by free speech rights in that case than in others.
Also, healthcare providers have duties to help people with medical care. If someone falsely impersonates a healthcare providers, with the intent of not providing care, then that's not the same as ordinary lying.
Yes, in most cases, lying is protected by the right of freedom of speech.
Also, healthcare providers have duties to help people with medical care. If someone falsely impersonates a healthcare providers, with the intent of not providing care, then that's not the same as ordinary lying.
Yes, in most cases, lying is protected by the right of freedom of speech.
2
I think the only requirement should be a statement that the facilities do not provide abortion services. Other than that, I don't understand what the problem is. It seems that these centers offer support and care to pregnant women and baby. What on earth is the problem with that?!
12
You didn't read the whole article, then. These clinics are involved in deceit, which can result in a lifetime of poverty for these women. Notice how you'll NEVER hear a woman think it's OK if a doctor dispenses false information to a man about cancer, birth control and his medical options. Why would we want our sons to go through that? The last thing a pregnant teen or young woman needs is a scam.
17
I agree - there is nothing wrong with offering support and care to pregnant women and babies. However, these centers mislead women by posing as medical clinics ready to help pregnant women review their options and decide what to do. Why are these organizations afraid to be honestly represent themselves to the public?
14
The problem is that they are set up with the end goal of "persuade the woman not to have an abortion", not "help the woman make her own reproductive choices that are best for her". They distribute false information about the risks of abortion, they are NOT licensed medical professionals yet disguise themselves as such, and do little if anything to address SDIs or contraception (i.e. the things that could help prevent women from getting pregnant again in the future).
13
It is ridiculous that facilities which dispense "medical" advice and provide "medical" services are not licensed by the state. It would seem the state of California has this backwards: it should first require all pregnancy centers to be licensed and then require that all licensed facilities provide women with a complete range of options.
85
Whether you should choose abortion or not isn't "medical advice" -- it's a moral and ethical decision, meaning anyone could offer guidance on this.
The clinics I know about ("Alternative Pregnancy Counseling") either have a nurse or nurse-practitioner on staff, or can get clients access to doctors and clinics if they want to have their baby. This is not really any different than Planned Parenthood, where the "counselors" are not licensed professionals.
The clinics I know about ("Alternative Pregnancy Counseling") either have a nurse or nurse-practitioner on staff, or can get clients access to doctors and clinics if they want to have their baby. This is not really any different than Planned Parenthood, where the "counselors" are not licensed professionals.
1
Dear Concerned Citizen,
The medical advice to which I refer is the totally false information provided by unlicensed/non-medical "counsellors" at unlicensed non-medical facilities that there is a connection between a medical procedure--abortion, and various kinds of cancer.
And FYI, Planned Parenthood facilities are very different from the kind of Pregnancy Counseling facilities discussed in this article--Planned Parenthood has no agenda and it is licensed.
The medical advice to which I refer is the totally false information provided by unlicensed/non-medical "counsellors" at unlicensed non-medical facilities that there is a connection between a medical procedure--abortion, and various kinds of cancer.
And FYI, Planned Parenthood facilities are very different from the kind of Pregnancy Counseling facilities discussed in this article--Planned Parenthood has no agenda and it is licensed.
4
There is only one thing worse than the anti abortion crusade, a back street abortion gone bad with the death of a desperate young woman and her foetus.
28
All unlicensed establishments like this should be closed down.
47
At its heart this deep philosophical ''debate'' revolves around some guy's assumed ''right'' to ''nail'' the ''gal that meets the fancy of his eye'' and force his way into her life via the fetus. Today, with DNA testing making this form of biological extortion more enabled than ever (the door is open to reverse paternity suits that can "prove" a jilted ex-lover's paternity), women's rights to abortion on demand are more critical than ever.
Falsely represented clinics are a hazard to free and informed health and fair disclosure is a very valid requirement for these deceptive outfits - For example would we tolerate a Christian Science Clinic setting up next to Sloan Kettering that called themselves, "Cancer For Living'' with propaganda that we can 'pray our cancer away safely and effectively?' replete with pamphlets extolling unverified assertions of the power of prayer, and no mention of medical alternatives?
Falsely represented clinics are a hazard to free and informed health and fair disclosure is a very valid requirement for these deceptive outfits - For example would we tolerate a Christian Science Clinic setting up next to Sloan Kettering that called themselves, "Cancer For Living'' with propaganda that we can 'pray our cancer away safely and effectively?' replete with pamphlets extolling unverified assertions of the power of prayer, and no mention of medical alternatives?
212
Those who preach stupidity to youthful ignorance should be confined to inflicting damage to their own children.
21
The first abortion I had was the result of a boyfriend who tore the condom when he was putting it on but ''thought it was OK.'' The second was a mystery, until it occurred to me while my then boyfriend suddenly insisted on marrying me that maybe something was up. He later admitted he had intentionally impregnated me because ''he knew I wanted one.'' I later got married and happily shared two children with the husband I wanted to marry and am still married to. So I agree that a lot of this abortion issue really boils down to mammal-male strategies for impregnating females of the species to spread their precious ''brand'' whether the females are interested or not.
45
If it was me who was your first boyfriend I'd have kidnapped you to my cabin in the woods and made sure that little baby saw the light of day. This country needs smart children from good christian families with good genes. Ancient Rome was degraded by the invasion of outside barbarians, and this great nation seems imperiled by the same fate. Try reading Gibbons.
1
When people say that voting makes no difference, just look at the Republican governors and legislatures of many states to see how women's right to choose has been eroded, especially over the past five years. Make no mistake: if a Republican is allowed to win the Presidency and choose two, possibly three, Supreme Court justices, you can be assured that safe, legal and accessible abortion will be history.
148
It's already history in many of these states.
6
And how many unwanted babies have you adopted?
11
Check the record of the "moderate" Kasich when it comes to poor women seeking abortions. He wants power, and the way to get that power, to get those votes, is to sacrifice poor women (and their children if his policies prevent abortions and force the women to give birth).
1
No tax-exempt status nor any public funding for these lying organizations. They deceive on purpose.
43
How are they lying? They just don't want to facilitate abortions.
4
"How are they lying?"
As stated in the article, one example is describing false links between abortions and health problems such as cancer.
...Andrew
As stated in the article, one example is describing false links between abortions and health problems such as cancer.
...Andrew
24
Read the article. They tell lies about abortion risks that don't actually exist.
17
The article mentions the clinics are licensed -- what is the license for and who issues it? Are they supposed to be providing pregnancy services, including discussing ALL options? If so, they are in violation of their license and should be shut. At the very least they should be required to disclose -- right there on the front door -- that they do not believe an abortion is a option. They are being deceptive and hiding behind the First Amendment to do so.
28
All patients are entitled to all relevant information with respect to their physical situations. Those who seek to deprive women of information about the options of abortion are treating women with disrespect for their decision-making capabilities. Abortion is legal; even those who oppose it cannot deny this. Abortion is an option; even those who oppose it cannot deny this either. Moreover, if a clinic receives any kind of government support, and if that clinic conceals available options for the patients the government pays it to care for, that clinic is using its funds for religious purposes. The Constitution surely forbids this governmental payment for what amounts to forcing religious views on someone who probably does not share them.
25
If a pregnant woman goes to Planned Parenthood, she'll receive information about a broad range of options, including information about resources available to her if she decides to go ahead with her pregnancy. Planned Parenthood provides complete medical care. These "pregnancy clinics" are no more than propaganda centers staffed by non-medical personnel with an agenda. If they won't comply with the law, they should be closed.
243
Another advantage is that Planned Parenthood's information is factual, science-based and reliable. There is no hidden agenda.
26
PP is a propaganda organization as well -- in favor of abortion, because they directly profit financially from the sale of fetal remains.
They also do NOT provide "complete medical care". You cannot even get a routine mammogram at a PP facility!
They also do NOT provide "complete medical care". You cannot even get a routine mammogram at a PP facility!
2
"judgmental" Citizen, my doctor doesn't offer mammograms in her office either. The equipment, like MRIs, is expensive and best centralized for efficiency. That doesn't make me think less of my doctor. I get a referral like everyone else,
5
"...operated by religious opponents of abortion, with the heartfelt aim of persuading women to choose parenting or adoption...."
They do much more. They help provide for the baby after birth. What I'd recommend is complying with the law and posting right next to the required sign another sign explaining that you have done under threat of government fine or imprisonment. How would the abortion-providers feel about a law compellling them to post a sign that tells women that free pregnancy clinics are available? They would sue, I promise you.
They do much more. They help provide for the baby after birth. What I'd recommend is complying with the law and posting right next to the required sign another sign explaining that you have done under threat of government fine or imprisonment. How would the abortion-providers feel about a law compellling them to post a sign that tells women that free pregnancy clinics are available? They would sue, I promise you.
6
Planned Parenthood is a major provider of prenatal care for poor women.
44
Abortion providers would probably never have to face such a requirement because there's no service the pregnancy clinics provide that the abortion clinic doesn't also provide.
I think what you mean is 'how would abortion-providers feel about a law compelling them to post a sign that tells women about alternative options to abortion, or the 'risks' of abortion'? If you do a little research, I think you'll find this is already a requirement in many places, though I think they must do it verbally, not via a sign.
I think what you mean is 'how would abortion-providers feel about a law compelling them to post a sign that tells women about alternative options to abortion, or the 'risks' of abortion'? If you do a little research, I think you'll find this is already a requirement in many places, though I think they must do it verbally, not via a sign.
10
Abortion providers already tell women about all of their options, these "crisis centers" exist solely to bully women into giving birth. It's also been proven that if you go into one determined to have the baby, they won't give post-natal help as there's no need for them to throw money at you.
10
If these "clinics" receive any federal funding that should stop! It's one thing to discuss options that include keeping the child and adoption but to pretend that abortion doesn't exist or thst it isn't an option is appalling. Discussing an option doesn't mean endorsing it it means full disclosure. I'm sick of right wing religious nut being able to shut down real health care clinics and gag doctors and force women to undergo nothing short of state sponsored rape while they are still permitted to lie by omission. Maybe they should also have to inform women of the D age pregnancy can do to women's health after all they want to see the foolishness the abortion causes brest cancer! Enough is enough!
Just as I believe Catholic hospitals should have to inform women and other patients which medical procedures, treatments or information are not being offered because of Catholic teaching upfront, I believe that these clinics must be truthful about their limited view of life and the options available.
Just as I believe Catholic hospitals should have to inform women and other patients which medical procedures, treatments or information are not being offered because of Catholic teaching upfront, I believe that these clinics must be truthful about their limited view of life and the options available.
20
The law violates "free speech"? What about freedom of choice? But perhaps the religious view is that women are not entitled to independent thinking. It's usually men making the decisions for them!
21
Ok. As soon as you tell me where "freedom of choice" is enshrined in the Constitution, your argument will hold some weight. Until then...
5
If women are entitled to independent thinking, they'd be demanding men to use condoms. Abortion is a remedy, not a choice. Don't fool yourself or cheat girls into the unfair bargain. It the woman's body that is being intruded by medical procedures.
1
Concerned Reader, The Supreme Court established freedom of choice in Rowe v Wade. Unless, you don't believe in following the law...
18
"Mr. McClure denied that the center in El Cajon tries to mislead anyone, saying it provides honest information that allows women to make their own decisions."
If that's so, Mr. McClure, then be 'honest' enough to acknowledge that abortion is among those decisions and that, if it is freely made, you should be straightforward with all the information about that option, too.
If that's so, Mr. McClure, then be 'honest' enough to acknowledge that abortion is among those decisions and that, if it is freely made, you should be straightforward with all the information about that option, too.
28
The same anti-choice movement that is responsible for forcing ultrasounds to women seeking abortions, lying about PP with fake videos, protesting abortion clinics and harassing patients and ultimately forcing most clinics in some states to close thus denying medical treatment of any kind to poor women- these same people are afraid to give information out to women in fear they will choose abortion.
Guess what? If a woman chooses an abortion- it means for whatever reason- and it's nobody's business why- this woman is not ready to be a mother at this time in her life. These people are giving free car seats and diapers and think that's all this woman will need in order to be a good mom? Are you going to be there to give support for the next 21 years? No-you are not. It's not your life. Fine- if you want to give information about the miracle of pregnancy- but give all the facts so a woman can make her own CHOICE about her own life.
Guess what? If a woman chooses an abortion- it means for whatever reason- and it's nobody's business why- this woman is not ready to be a mother at this time in her life. These people are giving free car seats and diapers and think that's all this woman will need in order to be a good mom? Are you going to be there to give support for the next 21 years? No-you are not. It's not your life. Fine- if you want to give information about the miracle of pregnancy- but give all the facts so a woman can make her own CHOICE about her own life.
115
According to Guttmacher, most women who choose abortion are already mothers and do so in the interests of the child(ren) they already have.
7
And that is all they do, Marian. They do not tie up women, and hold them captive until they deliver babies.
They offer advice and help. Many women DO want to keep their babies, and just need help at a difficult time, to make arrangements. They may face angry boyfriends, husbands, parents who don't want them to have their baby.
You should not assume that every women with a crisis pregnancy wants to abort. Some of them abort in a panic, or because they are being pressured by a boyfriend who doesn't want to pay child support, or get in trouble for having an affair or sex with an underage girl.
They offer advice and help. Many women DO want to keep their babies, and just need help at a difficult time, to make arrangements. They may face angry boyfriends, husbands, parents who don't want them to have their baby.
You should not assume that every women with a crisis pregnancy wants to abort. Some of them abort in a panic, or because they are being pressured by a boyfriend who doesn't want to pay child support, or get in trouble for having an affair or sex with an underage girl.
1
Exactly, but of course it's much harder to demonize women as "baby murderers" when they're getting abortions to care for the babies they already have. That would mean they actually do care about babies. That's much too much grey area for pro-lifers to deal with.
4
posting as jroll:
I think a more appropriate statement would simply be that "We do not provide information about abortions services,"in licensed facilities. I also think that if these clinics have an religious affiliation. that they could claim an exemption to this law under the Hobby Lobby ruling or the "Little Sisters of the Poor" ruling. Finally, Are medical facilities that provide abortion facilities required to provide information about fetal development, adoption agencies, and government benefits available to pregnant women and resulting children? Embryos have a beating heart 18 to 21 days after conception. There are college educated people who think that is religious
belief not scientific fact.
I think a more appropriate statement would simply be that "We do not provide information about abortions services,"in licensed facilities. I also think that if these clinics have an religious affiliation. that they could claim an exemption to this law under the Hobby Lobby ruling or the "Little Sisters of the Poor" ruling. Finally, Are medical facilities that provide abortion facilities required to provide information about fetal development, adoption agencies, and government benefits available to pregnant women and resulting children? Embryos have a beating heart 18 to 21 days after conception. There are college educated people who think that is religious
belief not scientific fact.
10
In my state, doctors are forced by law to spew anti-choice nonsense at women who want abortions, and then the women are forced to jump through 20 different hoops to get it. Why can't your anti-choice centers be forced to at least TELL THE TRUTH about what they do?
21
Many states have enacted laws that require facilities that provide abortions inform the woman of the issues and even, in some cases, show them ultrasounds and other material in an effort to play on their emotions so they choose not to abort the fetus. Those laws have been struck down in many cases, but now that "the shoe is on the other foot," the right objects to the types of requirements that it has tried to impose of providers of abortion services.
16
"Anti-choice nonsense" @ JaePea? Do you hate children? Inconvenient little crumb crunchers, kill them all.
Giving partial or inaccurate medical information is a violation of the standard of medical care practiced in this country. The beliefs of a patient are respected and more sacred than the opinions of the healthcare providers. Children are offered vaccination, rape victims are offered treatment to prevent HIV and pregnancy and ICUs perform heroic treatments on people with virtually no chance of survival because that is what patients want. The free=speech rights of a health care provider do not supersede the healthcare needs of a patient. If these clinics are taking money from the state they should be required to practice the full standard of care that patients deserve.
40
These are not "full care" clinics anymore than Planned Parenthood is! PP cannot give do mammograms! They mostly refer clients to other doctors and facilities for treatment. They are NOT full service medical centers by any means.
PP definitely is not a hospital with an ICU or emergency room.
PP definitely is not a hospital with an ICU or emergency room.
A recent WaPo article pointed out that since these "clinics" are not medical facilities staffed with medical professionals, they are not bound by HIPAA rules on confidentiality. Women going there are not protected from having their health records and personal information used or disclosed by these "clinic" operators.
Outrageous that these people use the first amendment to stay in business.
Outrageous that these people use the first amendment to stay in business.
99
They should have to disclose that they are not bound by any privacy rules as well.
12
By using the term "Clinic" as opposed to "hospital" or "Medical Center" they get away with this. Ironically this abuse of nomenclature and licensing crept in as usual with the best of intentions and the "people's clinics" of the 1960s that attempted to dispense medical care and advice to a wider swath of the society. Disgusting.
2
Why do these centers avoid the truth? Because like most things religious, beliefs are built on myth. These centers need to be highly regulated and closed down when they have been found lying to clients. They must pay taxes so we the taxpayer can recover the regulation and prosecution costs. They consistently show they have no respect for women, for truth or for the law.
26
We have a long experience with crisis pregnancy clinics In Pennsylvania and unfortunately, they receive state funds but no mandate to provide accurate information. But it gets worse: These clinics do nothing to prevent HIV or STDs for pregnant women. In other words, pregnant women are still at risk for sexually transmitted infections and should be offered condoms and information on prevention. Pennsylvania state funds are also used to support so-called maternity homes. These homes are unregulated and you wonder about the safety and well being of pregnant women if there are no fire escapes, occupancy & food safety standards, admitting privileges with local hospital and on-site medical staff to care for women with high risk pregnancies.
267
Isn't it fascinating how so-called "pro-life" legislators pass law after law to force Planned Parenthood, and other women's clinics, to conform to hundreds of totally unnecessary laws and standards and regulations, all rationalized on the grounds of protecting women's health, yet they refuse to require even the most basic of safety standards of "pregnancy clinics?"
3
That's because conservatives and especially evangelicals have made it abundantly clear that they do not care for women. If the woman dies, too bad. This is the perspective embraced by ALL the Republican candidates for President. Vote Democrats, even if Sanders is not nominated.
2
This isn't a clinic, it's a church pretending to be a clinic.
"Clinics" do not have religious objectives. Rather, health objectives.
Lies and deceptions do not help this cause.
"Clinics" do not have religious objectives. Rather, health objectives.
Lies and deceptions do not help this cause.
103
But lies and deceptions are front and center to religions.
3
Conservative-influenced pregnancy advice centers make no mention of the availability of abortion or advise the client against it. Progressive forces insist that it be put front and center. Both are stridently opposed by the other side.
Pity the poor woman whose expectancy drops her unavoidably into the middle of the ideological battlefield. Has the availability of objective advice simply disappeared in the fog of war?
Pity the poor woman whose expectancy drops her unavoidably into the middle of the ideological battlefield. Has the availability of objective advice simply disappeared in the fog of war?
41
The article found that the El Cajon clinic made false information about cancer risks of abortion available to its clients. So, at least in El Cajon, it is not simply a case of the proprietors keeping their mouths shut.
18
The only group that is opposed to an objective view are the anti-abortion groups who want to impose their views on others. The pro-choice movement is not there to change any women's mind, just that she is fully informed when she makes HER decision. It is the so called pro-life movement that practices willful dissemination of falsehoods and lies.
19
False equivalency, my friend. Centers such as Planned Parenthood help clients make fully informed decisions about their choices, abortion being one of those legally available options. Anti-abortion centers, as explained in the article, attempt to exert undue influence over the woman's choice through unethical deception and omission of key information.
24
If these clinics are so opposed to abortion, then they should be forthright about their convictions and proclaim, emphatically, that they exist to provide alternatives. But their literature, advertising, and websites maintain the falsehood that they are disinterested medical centers "for women". I'd be sympathetic to their first amendment claims if the entire model wasn't based on disingenuous "counseling" and disinformation. One of these clinics is right smack in my neighborhood, and their website claims, "We believe it is every woman’s right to be well informed about all of their pregnancy options." Yet they traumatize vulnerable women with their underhanded, emotional tactics to discourage abortion (for example, handing women baby booties along with their ultrasound). It's tragic, because an excellent hospital-run, truly holistic midwifery clinic is mere blocks away.
404
Why would you skulk around rather than proclaiming proudly how you are different? And why does this article not talk about what exactly this group does to support women who decide to keep their babies to term? Let's face it, if they really helping women and the children created by these decisions, this would be a very different discussion.
If you are a young girl, maybe no job and unmarried, and you are pregnant -- you are in CRISIS. You may not know what to do. You may be deeply conflicted as to what is the right thing to do.
At that time, you need comfort and acceptance, and to hear about ALL options -- not just "abort abort abort" from Planned Parenthood or lefty liberals.
Some of these women are (or would be) under severe pressure to abort by angry boyfriends, husbands, parents.
The lefty assumption here is that OF COURSE every pregnant woman wants an abortion. But that is absolutely not true.
At that time, you need comfort and acceptance, and to hear about ALL options -- not just "abort abort abort" from Planned Parenthood or lefty liberals.
Some of these women are (or would be) under severe pressure to abort by angry boyfriends, husbands, parents.
The lefty assumption here is that OF COURSE every pregnant woman wants an abortion. But that is absolutely not true.
1
Bingo.
' "We believe there is a link," Mr. McClure said of the breast cancer claim.'
You can 'believe the earth is flat; it isn't. 'Medical' facilities that deliberately lie to patients should be shut down. Period. You want to try to talk women out of an abortion? OK, but ONLY within the context of all the facts.
And even then, not your uterus, not your business.
' "We believe there is a link," Mr. McClure said of the breast cancer claim.'
You can 'believe the earth is flat; it isn't. 'Medical' facilities that deliberately lie to patients should be shut down. Period. You want to try to talk women out of an abortion? OK, but ONLY within the context of all the facts.
And even then, not your uterus, not your business.
3
Well, how about the opposite case? Shouldn't Planned Parenthood et al be required to hand out brochures about adoption services and free birthing clinics? After all, women need to know all their options, right?
6
Planned Parenthood generally does discuss any and all options with its clients, including referrals for adoption or social services. In this context, it is a consumer law issue more than a speech issue--because many of these "crisis pregnancy centers" engage in misleading or false advertising, and do not identify themselves as anti-abortion organizations rather than ordinary medical or social service centers.
31
How do you know that they don't?
17
That would be reasonable... if a state law was passed to require it. And then.... telling them about the federal tax benefits of single parenthood and the laws requiring absent fathers to support the woman and her child for 18-26 years.
If the economic burden were placed on more absent fathers, maybe fewer would choose to impregnate women and flee.
If the economic burden were placed on more absent fathers, maybe fewer would choose to impregnate women and flee.
10
Religionists, fighting against factual information and female autonomy for thousands of years.
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Understand that this law was put in place because many of these "Crisis Pregnancy Centers" were setting up shop next to or near planned parenthood clinics, dressing their offices like medical facilities, then doling out bad (incorrect or straight up false) information to pregnant women to persuade them away from abortion. These "Counselors" are untrained employees and there are NO doctors on staff. This is a bait and switch for those who are supremely vulnerable and in need of support and professional, factual advice. Heartfelt? Maybe on the side of the employees, but for the rest of us, it's deceitful malpractice and fraud.
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Most Planned Parenthood centers also have no doctors. They have nurse practitioners. Most abortions are done by nurse practitioners, not doctors (it would be too costly otherwise).
PP has counselors which interview new clients, and those are not doctors OR nurses; they are lay counselors with no medical background. It is exactly the same as the Crisis Pregnancy Centers.
The Crisis centers do nothing more than give a pregnancy test, which is a non-invasive test done on urine. You don't need a doctor to do that. If a client requires a doctor, they can refer her or find low cost or free care -- but they do not do such care in their offices.
You should NOT assume all women asking for help in a crisis want an abortion. Many do not know WHAT they want at that point. And a majority go on to have their babies, with or without any counseling at all.
PP has counselors which interview new clients, and those are not doctors OR nurses; they are lay counselors with no medical background. It is exactly the same as the Crisis Pregnancy Centers.
The Crisis centers do nothing more than give a pregnancy test, which is a non-invasive test done on urine. You don't need a doctor to do that. If a client requires a doctor, they can refer her or find low cost or free care -- but they do not do such care in their offices.
You should NOT assume all women asking for help in a crisis want an abortion. Many do not know WHAT they want at that point. And a majority go on to have their babies, with or without any counseling at all.
1
They should be shut down just like any PP in those states where they were deemed inadequate to perform abortions. Time to get the states' attorneys generals involved, or the USAG if those appointees are Kim Davis types...
1
@Concerned Citizen: Half of Planned Parenthood clinics don't provide abortions. So they don't need doctors. At those that do provide abortions, physicians perform them. Your statements are false.
3
After the babies of these unwanted pregnancies are born, the same groups that keep the "pregnancy clinics" running will continue fighting against the social benefits that could help the impoverished new mothers and their children. It's hard to see any ethical motivations, when it all seems to be about keeping the cycle of poverty running.
264
Ah, memories of my years in NYC in the 1960s, when my friends and their friends would cough up $300 for a weekend in Puerto Rico on the beach, abortion included. One of my closest friends saw someone uptown and later, after hours of labor alone in her apartment, expelled twin fetuses in her toilet. Everyone knew someone who'd had one of those back alley abortions; everyone knew someone you could call. Now, 50 years later, it seems as though nothing's changed, except that there are now more men with tight little faces trying to tell us that they, not we, are in control of our reproductive rights. I've never really thought that this has had much to do with the rights of a fetus. anyway. Women have been having abortions for a few thousand years.
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"Men with tight little faces" - I love the description, how apt! This does remind me to make another donation to Planned Parenthood.
"Beyond assistance for needy new mothers, the center also gives advice on how to avoid another pregnancy: abstinence for the unmarried, 'natural' methods for the married." I believe this information is given via a video narrated by Bristol Palin.
"Beyond assistance for needy new mothers, the center also gives advice on how to avoid another pregnancy: abstinence for the unmarried, 'natural' methods for the married." I believe this information is given via a video narrated by Bristol Palin.
51
Amen.
I'm a man, and in the 60s I saw several of my women friends have these "back alley" types of abortions. Not one was a casual "morning after" decision. They were all decision that came after days of tearful and agonizing soul searching.
I don't get it. We are talking about the civil rights of our mothers, wives, daughters, and friends (all Americans). It's all the more unfair, reprehensible and hypocritical since we know the well-to-do can have their women go to a state or country where abortions are legal and available.
And we all know that if the shoe were on the other foot, and men got pregnant, these "men with tight little faces" would make sure abortions were a standard, easily obtainable, medical procedure.
To my mind, it's sexism and the denial of a basic civil right.
I'm a man, and in the 60s I saw several of my women friends have these "back alley" types of abortions. Not one was a casual "morning after" decision. They were all decision that came after days of tearful and agonizing soul searching.
I don't get it. We are talking about the civil rights of our mothers, wives, daughters, and friends (all Americans). It's all the more unfair, reprehensible and hypocritical since we know the well-to-do can have their women go to a state or country where abortions are legal and available.
And we all know that if the shoe were on the other foot, and men got pregnant, these "men with tight little faces" would make sure abortions were a standard, easily obtainable, medical procedure.
To my mind, it's sexism and the denial of a basic civil right.
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Nobody is having illegal abortions these days, unless you are unlucky enough to be a client of Kermit Gosnell. Oh wait -- he was a perfectly legal abortion provider! My bad!
Abortion has been legal in all 50 states for the last 43 years.
"Advice counseling" is not the same as a back street abortion clinic. They are not advocating ANY abortion, at all. They also have no power to prevent a woman from aborting. All they do is offer advice, and IF THE WOMAN WANTS, assistance to continue her pregnancy, including medical care and help with things like a place to live, baby clothes, applying for welfare if needed.
It's really pretty benign and it is very telling that lefty liberals go off on a hysterical rant at the very thought that ANYONE dares to defy their lefty memes.
Abortion has been legal in all 50 states for the last 43 years.
"Advice counseling" is not the same as a back street abortion clinic. They are not advocating ANY abortion, at all. They also have no power to prevent a woman from aborting. All they do is offer advice, and IF THE WOMAN WANTS, assistance to continue her pregnancy, including medical care and help with things like a place to live, baby clothes, applying for welfare if needed.
It's really pretty benign and it is very telling that lefty liberals go off on a hysterical rant at the very thought that ANYONE dares to defy their lefty memes.
3
"The clinics argue that the law, which took effect in January, flagrantly violates their rights of free speech...."
How free is it when people receive only partial truth? Just as it is difficult to be a little bit pregnant, it is impossible to be truthful when the truths you cite (ignoring for a moment their untruths -- about breast cancer, for example) are only a portion of the whole truth.
A lie can be direct ("the moon is made of green cheese"). Or it can be an evasion, or a partial truth without more, or an avoidance of those truths you hold unpalatable. Misdirection can also be a lie.
These clinics are liars.
How free is it when people receive only partial truth? Just as it is difficult to be a little bit pregnant, it is impossible to be truthful when the truths you cite (ignoring for a moment their untruths -- about breast cancer, for example) are only a portion of the whole truth.
A lie can be direct ("the moon is made of green cheese"). Or it can be an evasion, or a partial truth without more, or an avoidance of those truths you hold unpalatable. Misdirection can also be a lie.
These clinics are liars.
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Imagine that! "Crisis pregnancy clinics" care more about grinding an ideological axe than providing accurate and complete healthcare information.
If anti-abortion ideologues want access to the free speech rights which protect lies and omissions, they should stop posing as healthcare providers.
After all, we license physicians and hospitals because we expect them to meet standards of service and conduct that aim to protect us from snake oil salesmen and other charlatans. Practicing medicine without a license is a punishable violation.
The law should further require most crisis pregnancy centers to clearly state on their doors and walls that they do not and cannot provide healthcare and they refuse to provide abortion information or access to abortion services.
If anti-abortion ideologues want access to the free speech rights which protect lies and omissions, they should stop posing as healthcare providers.
After all, we license physicians and hospitals because we expect them to meet standards of service and conduct that aim to protect us from snake oil salesmen and other charlatans. Practicing medicine without a license is a punishable violation.
The law should further require most crisis pregnancy centers to clearly state on their doors and walls that they do not and cannot provide healthcare and they refuse to provide abortion information or access to abortion services.
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Imagine that, "Crisis Pregnancy Clinics" actually being expected to care for the pregnant patient rather than being about anti-choice polemics.
4
On view: the hypocrisy of the CPC/anti-choice movement. The poor, fragile creatures must be given ultrasounds, "scientific information" rejected by the medical community, and time to think over an already-well-thought-out decision. But heaven forbid they're made aware that a clinic isn't licensed (?!?!) or that it doesn't provide the full spectrum of services deemed essential by the state of California in which they've chosen to reside.
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Are the practitoners in these "clinics" affiliated with hospitals? Do they meet standards of cleanliness? Are their doors wide enough?
27
Jackson, I can think of a few examples of "scientific information" offered by these clinics that are rejected by the medical community.
An abortion leads to a lifetime of grief, regret and depression.
An abortion increases the risk of breast and other cancers.
A pill-induced abortion can be reversed.
An abortion will render the woman sterile.
A fetus can feel pain.
Are these assertions always false? Probably not. But I'm going with the medical community on this one.
An abortion leads to a lifetime of grief, regret and depression.
An abortion increases the risk of breast and other cancers.
A pill-induced abortion can be reversed.
An abortion will render the woman sterile.
A fetus can feel pain.
Are these assertions always false? Probably not. But I'm going with the medical community on this one.
5
Ultimately, after much deliberation, we made a mutual decision to continue the pregnancy; I am holding our baby as I write. It was so helpful to get the counseling we did and served to clarify our decision to have the baby. In no way did we feel pressure to have an abortion. I would hope for the same for any woman or couple in that situation--no pressure or coercion in ANY direction. Providing neutral information about the availability of abortion services at crisis pregnancy centers seems like a minimal step in the right direction.