it is certainly past the time when American Jews should realize that Israeli interests and American interests are not one and the same. in fact they are frequently diametrically opposed. support for Israel must not be unqualified. this is especially true when it comes to the issue of settlements.
American Jews must encourage the US to stop contributing to the funding of settlement building. For every dollar Israel spends on settlements the US must reduce its foreign aid by 2 dollars.
American Jews must encourage the US to stop contributing to the funding of settlement building. For every dollar Israel spends on settlements the US must reduce its foreign aid by 2 dollars.
21
Doron from Dallas has the issue down cold. Despite UNGAR 181, providing for two states, "one Arab and one Jewish," the Palestinians, have neither offered, nor accepted a solution allowing two states to coexist in peace. As set forth in the founding documents of the P.L.O. and Hamas, Jews have no right to an independent of their own state within the Middle-East. Article 7 of the 1988 Hamas Covenant calls for the genocide of all Jews; Article 13 explicitly rejects al forms of non-violent conflict resolution in favor of perpetual war against Israel. See: http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp
In such a "one to the exclusion of the other" scenario, to preserve her right to self-determination and territorial integrity, under International Law, Israel as the victorious belligerent of the defensive "Six Day War,"
may retain captured lands until possession is modified by peace treaty. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uti_possidetis
Should Palestinians continue to reject peace negotiations, whether based on the Barak peace offer of 2000, the Olmert peace offer of 2008, or even the Arab League Peace Plan, accepted by Israel as a basis for negotiations,
the land should, after a reasonable amount of time (50 years), be subject to forfeiture. As acceptance of such offers would constitute de-facto recognition of Israel's right to exist within "secure and recognized boundaries" per UNSCR 242 and 338, Palestinians currently prefer the "occupation" continue.
In such a "one to the exclusion of the other" scenario, to preserve her right to self-determination and territorial integrity, under International Law, Israel as the victorious belligerent of the defensive "Six Day War,"
may retain captured lands until possession is modified by peace treaty. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uti_possidetis
Should Palestinians continue to reject peace negotiations, whether based on the Barak peace offer of 2000, the Olmert peace offer of 2008, or even the Arab League Peace Plan, accepted by Israel as a basis for negotiations,
the land should, after a reasonable amount of time (50 years), be subject to forfeiture. As acceptance of such offers would constitute de-facto recognition of Israel's right to exist within "secure and recognized boundaries" per UNSCR 242 and 338, Palestinians currently prefer the "occupation" continue.
43
Here's a solution.
Get Out.
Leave all those backwards barbarians to kill each other. they all lie and cheat and will switch sides on a whim.
Only one caveat, let them know that if they mess with Israel, they mess with the US. and that there will be no "nuance" to our response.
Get Out.
Leave all those backwards barbarians to kill each other. they all lie and cheat and will switch sides on a whim.
Only one caveat, let them know that if they mess with Israel, they mess with the US. and that there will be no "nuance" to our response.
19
Tried reading this, and am reminded why I hate reading Friedman - he always brands his columns with some idiotic soundbite - one state, no state, et al - that cheapens whatever he's trying to say, and I just can't get through it. It would be great if you could treat your readership like adults - but then again, with candidates like Trump a frontrunner for a major party nomination, maybe the readership IS stupid and DOES need idiotic soundbites. How depressing.
20
Once again, there is a massive refusal on the part of the NY Times to simply and accurately report facts. The failure of a Palestinian state is not about Israel, which has proven its commitment to peace. The failure of the Palestinian state is about the Palestinians' proven commitment to nothing but the destruction of Israel.
Israel, through Prime Minister Barak in 2000 and through Prime Minister Olmert in 2008, has twice offered full peace plans to the Palestinians. These plans included a contiguous state with virtually the full size of the West Bank and Gaza (the settlements so often carped about are literally a couple of percent of territory), eastern Jerusalem as its capital, repatriation in Israel for some Palestinians, full governmental autonomy, and huge appeasement payoffs. The Palestinians -- first Arafat, then Abbas -- wholesale rejected these offers, did not offer alternatives, walked away from peace talks, and responded with Intifadas that murdered thousands of Israelis.
Many repeat the false narrative that Israel does not want peace. An objective observer would conclude that Israel's unilateral uprooting of its own from Gaza merely in the hope for peace is absolute proof that Israel has demonstrated its full commitment to the Palestinians. The constant violent actions and words of the Palestinians seeking to bring death and destruction to Israel and its citizens is conclusive proof that collectively they offer only the opposite of peace.
Israel, through Prime Minister Barak in 2000 and through Prime Minister Olmert in 2008, has twice offered full peace plans to the Palestinians. These plans included a contiguous state with virtually the full size of the West Bank and Gaza (the settlements so often carped about are literally a couple of percent of territory), eastern Jerusalem as its capital, repatriation in Israel for some Palestinians, full governmental autonomy, and huge appeasement payoffs. The Palestinians -- first Arafat, then Abbas -- wholesale rejected these offers, did not offer alternatives, walked away from peace talks, and responded with Intifadas that murdered thousands of Israelis.
Many repeat the false narrative that Israel does not want peace. An objective observer would conclude that Israel's unilateral uprooting of its own from Gaza merely in the hope for peace is absolute proof that Israel has demonstrated its full commitment to the Palestinians. The constant violent actions and words of the Palestinians seeking to bring death and destruction to Israel and its citizens is conclusive proof that collectively they offer only the opposite of peace.
59
I believe that Obama scuttled the peace process when he, not the Palestinians, conditioned talks upon elimination of the Settlements. The Palestinians certainly couldn't ask for less and the Israelis had negotiating room taken from them. Where could either party go.
We were clumsy and stupid.
And, in truth, Obama did the same thing by insisting on regime change in Syria.
Lots of damage done by us.
We were clumsy and stupid.
And, in truth, Obama did the same thing by insisting on regime change in Syria.
Lots of damage done by us.
28
Many people think the UN created Israel. This is not true. The historical League of Nations document "Mandate for Palestine" 1922, gave the Jewish people the legal right under international law to settle anywhere in western Palestine, the area between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea. This is still international law today. Fifty-one countries, the entire League of Nations, unanimously voted in favor of this document on July 24, 1922.
"Whereas recognition has been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country."
THIS IS THE LAW.
"Whereas recognition has been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country."
THIS IS THE LAW.
30
The two state solution has existed all this time. Jordan is sitting on 3/5 of what was British Mandatory Palestine. Its citizens are 75% 'arab/muslim Palestinians. That is your arab/muslim 'palestine', Mr. Friednman. Yet you and radical leftists around the world are not interested in Jordan. you are more interested in bullying Israel and Jews into giving up their right to live in the Land of Israel. Your lies, much as the media propogated them, cannot change the truth and the facts of the deep connection Jews have to the Land of Israel. On the other hand, the over 40 arab/muslim countries around the world and the significant amount of violence and human rights violations associated with their mere existence should definitely give pause to anyone who thinks what the world is missing is another arab/muslim country!
31
We have no allies in the Middle East - and our number one mistake is actually thinking that we do. Does anyone really think anyone of those countries would ever come to our aid? Israel has never, ever done anything we have suggested (and weren't they caught spying on us?) Saudi Arabia buys billions in weapons from us - but 1) uses them to further their Shia/Sunni war in Yemen and 2) still expects us to devote OUR resources to removing Assad. The government of Saudi Arabia and its citizen have long funneled money to terrorist groups. The Mideast Solution is for us to step away from the Middle East and focus on our problems - like giving people in the US clean water (see NY Times story:Unsafe Lead Levels in Tap Water Not Limited to Flint).
16
The seeds of disaster in the Middle East, including the rise of ISIS, were sown long ago by the UK and USA doing the bidding of Israel and their respective Israeli lobbies. Of course, we continue to water and fertilize the crop!
9
Thomas Friedman has been wrong about every issue concerning the middle east for the last twenty years. His liberal, peace loving soul has not measured the desires of the citizens or leaders of the Arab countries. The destruction of Israel is the only goal of the leaders from Cairo to Riyadh to Tripoli, peaceniks such as Thomas, Barack Obama and Bernie Sanders will never understand.
17
Thank you Mr. Friedman for your assessment of the Middle East, which is reality in your face. Avigdor is a Dinosaur & his ilk will eventually die off. As a Grandfather of Granddaughter who now lives in Israel, I am of two realities.The first reality, is Israel & the Palestinians would never be in this predicament if the Palestinians had accepted the UN Partition. From the very beginning of Israel the Palestinians & Israel's neighbors wanted to destroy the very concept of Israel, & it has never stopped.Any fair minded person would never agree to a settlement with a country who will never accept you as a State, but what does logic & fairness have to do with it when you are talking about a Jewish State. There has always been a double Standard when it comes to the Jewish people.The real problem is not religion or threat of continuous friction, the problem is money, & Israel cannot compete. A market of 6 million Jews are expendable, when you are competing for a market of one & a half Billion people, Israel must give the Palestinians everything they want,or they will be isolated, & eventually lose their youth to the outside world. Israeli youth are aware of the life they can have in the United States, compared to life where young Israelis can't afford the things Americans take for granted, like a home, unless they are willing to live on the west bank.Israel cannot be defeated in war, but they are going to lose their markets that are essential to their existence.
12
How about this. Stop giving money and arms, back away. We have plenty of oil - a glut actually without any middle east oil. Israel has plenty of money, a great economy and they are a nuclear power. Let's just leave, and say- ok boys, figure it out. If they can't figure out how to live together in harmony then they aren't worth supporting.
4
Tom Friedman always knows everything about what will bebut somehow is often wrong. A certain humility before the surprises of History is not his long suit.
He also always finds a way of caricaturing and distorting the actions of Israel and its Prime Minister Netanyahu. His effort to be balanced in assigning blame for Peace's failure to Israelis first and then Palestinians is misleading and wrong. The great share of Israelis and the Israeli Prime Minister among them would have made and would make many 'sacrifices' for peace but whenever Israel has done this it has received only greater hostility from the Palestinians.
As for his description of the rest of the presently chaotic Middle East he is not mistaken about much but omits much else. What about the Kurds and their true quest for independence? What about the Iranian defiance of the U.S. and violation of the nuclear agreement in regard to ballistic missile testing?
He also always finds a way of caricaturing and distorting the actions of Israel and its Prime Minister Netanyahu. His effort to be balanced in assigning blame for Peace's failure to Israelis first and then Palestinians is misleading and wrong. The great share of Israelis and the Israeli Prime Minister among them would have made and would make many 'sacrifices' for peace but whenever Israel has done this it has received only greater hostility from the Palestinians.
As for his description of the rest of the presently chaotic Middle East he is not mistaken about much but omits much else. What about the Kurds and their true quest for independence? What about the Iranian defiance of the U.S. and violation of the nuclear agreement in regard to ballistic missile testing?
20
The entire Presidential campaign is a fantasy. This is just a small part of it. Don't tell me anyone is thinking seriously about it right now.
The Israeli's think they can keep the status quo in perpetuity. Much as Mr. Friedman tries to spread the guilt around, the Israelis hold most of the cards.
The West showed South Africa showed a way out of its morass with economic sanctions. But don't hold your breath here.
The Israeli's think they can keep the status quo in perpetuity. Much as Mr. Friedman tries to spread the guilt around, the Israelis hold most of the cards.
The West showed South Africa showed a way out of its morass with economic sanctions. But don't hold your breath here.
7
First I am not saying that Palestinians are not responsible for the corruption in their government, but please build Singapore out of Gaza with the blockade, with the settlements in the middle of West-Bank and occupation? The Zionist in Israel has a plan from the beginning and they executed it. The proof is in the pooding.
Regarding Iran. If there was a vote tomorrow 90% would vote the Mullahs out. You have a regime without the support of the people. With the lifting of sanctions many entrepreneurs will be able to grow outside the grasp of the government like "outsource technology" similar to India and Eastern Europe. Iran's is a long process towards civil society which will transform the middle east.
Don't fund the war machine and things will change.
Regarding Iran. If there was a vote tomorrow 90% would vote the Mullahs out. You have a regime without the support of the people. With the lifting of sanctions many entrepreneurs will be able to grow outside the grasp of the government like "outsource technology" similar to India and Eastern Europe. Iran's is a long process towards civil society which will transform the middle east.
Don't fund the war machine and things will change.
13
The next president needs only a three-word Mideast policy: Not Our Problem. The Cold War is over; Israel is not our fifty-first state; oil is not our Achilles heel; terrorism is a mosquito.
What IS our problem? North Korea. If we don't find a way to neutralize its nuclear program, soon, all of the western Pacific--and our own West Coast--are at risk, which will soon become intolerable. The longer we wait to act, the harder it's going to be.
What IS our problem? North Korea. If we don't find a way to neutralize its nuclear program, soon, all of the western Pacific--and our own West Coast--are at risk, which will soon become intolerable. The longer we wait to act, the harder it's going to be.
9
Tom, time for you to pack it in. Why not become a roaming reporter in ISIS territory so you can let us know what is really going on? They seem to want a 'one state' solution.
10
Here's my solution: Israel and the West Bank unite to form the nation of Palestine. Israel's democracy is preserved with elected West Bank delegates joining the Knesset. Israeli West Bank settlers can stay on land obtained before a negotiated cut-off date. West Bank Arabs finally get their Palestinian state. Unity forces both parties to work for common interests like water distribution, health and education. However unrealistic these proposals sound, they're no less unrealistic than the unsettled status quo.
3
Mr. Friedman is glib, you have to give him that. By verbally lumping Israel, Syria, the Palestinians, Iran, Iraq and Yemen together, he conveniently manages to drown everything in an easy 'they are all guilty' brew. Except it's not quite so easy: the resistance of the clear victims of over 30! years of occupation, with the vastly overwhelming numbers of victims during that time, cannot morally be lumped together with the violence of the occupiers. We never equated anti-apartheid violence by the ANC with the violence meted out by the apartheid regime on its victims. We can't do it here either, and that takes fully into account that the Palestinians made mistakes. But no moral equivalency and 'they are all guilty'. Iran does not strike me any more a rogue state than the US is one. Never mind who committed the original sin in the Middle East that caused all the current conflagration, but has anybody forgotten that we had regimes installed in South Vietnam, Nicaragua before the Sandinistas and El Savador? If that is the definition of a rogue regime, then we should get in line as well. I am not self-hating here, merely trying to not be hypocritical. Lastly, when looking at our allies in the Middle East, - Saudi Arabia, Egypt -, they strike me on most counts as more backward and intolerant than Iran. The US had ample opportunity to not incur this outcome: put real pressure on Israel as Secretary of Baker once did, and, imagine that, abstain from an invasion of Iraq.
7
Thomas L. Friedman of the New York Times writes here:
"Start with Israel. The peace process is dead. It’s over, folks, so please stop sending the New York Times Op-Ed page editor your proposals for a two-state solution between Israelis and Palestinians. The next U.S. president will have to deal with an Israel determined to permanently occupy all the territory between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, including where 2.5 million West Bank Palestinians live."
It is unclear whether or not Mr. Friedman can get Bibi Netanyahu to actually publicly admit this statement of reality. Yes, Bibi Netanyahu, in essence, said this to the Israeli electorate on national TV at the last minute of his last election. But, since that election he has "walked back" this statement. So, it is somewhat unclear whether he blatantly lied or told the truth to the Israeli electorate in order to get re-elected. According to Mr. Friedman’s opinion, Bibi Netanyahu is now deceiving the American electorate in order to keep and increase American tax dollars flowing effusively to Israeli (as eagerly authorized by both parties in Congress) in order for the Israelis to accomplish their secret agenda outlined above by Mr. Friedman.
I think that the only man that can stop this nonsense is President Bernie Sanders.
"Start with Israel. The peace process is dead. It’s over, folks, so please stop sending the New York Times Op-Ed page editor your proposals for a two-state solution between Israelis and Palestinians. The next U.S. president will have to deal with an Israel determined to permanently occupy all the territory between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, including where 2.5 million West Bank Palestinians live."
It is unclear whether or not Mr. Friedman can get Bibi Netanyahu to actually publicly admit this statement of reality. Yes, Bibi Netanyahu, in essence, said this to the Israeli electorate on national TV at the last minute of his last election. But, since that election he has "walked back" this statement. So, it is somewhat unclear whether he blatantly lied or told the truth to the Israeli electorate in order to get re-elected. According to Mr. Friedman’s opinion, Bibi Netanyahu is now deceiving the American electorate in order to keep and increase American tax dollars flowing effusively to Israeli (as eagerly authorized by both parties in Congress) in order for the Israelis to accomplish their secret agenda outlined above by Mr. Friedman.
I think that the only man that can stop this nonsense is President Bernie Sanders.
5
Friedman is right. The future is impossible to predict, but based on the past & present, we should long ago have abandoned the Middle East to the thugs who inhabit it. Previous generations of we in the West were major contributors to the mess, but our fathers' sins are not ours.
2
Mr. Friedman: There are some step-parents here too, you among them. Remember your support for the invasions of Iraq? The Middle East had its problems, but nothing like now. There were the neo-conservatives who thought we could shift the Palestinian problem onto Jordan and thereby diminish their claims to sharing Palestine. There were others who thought that a strong army could work its will, but forgot about the experience of the French in Algeria and both the French and Americans in Indochina.
So time to come clean and acknowledge your part in the ever diminishing options for good outcomes
So time to come clean and acknowledge your part in the ever diminishing options for good outcomes
14
This is the fruit that comes from blindly supporting Israel for decades while applying no real pressure to them to force them to find peace. In the beginning, there was a real and obvious choice to be made - support Israel. But there could never be real criticism of Israel even when they (repeatedly) crossed the moral lines. They were the downtrodden, the underdog, the only democracy, etc.
At one time we could have done something. Carter almost had it in his grasp. Its too late now. America has not the political will to boldly confront Israel nor turn its back on her; Israel may do as she pleases without much concern for consequences for us. There is nothing short of nuclear war to slow the steady appropriation of the West Bank from what is left of Palestine.
I'm an old man now. I will not live to see actual peace in the Middle East. I only can hope that I will not see all out war, especially a nuclear exchange.
At one time we could have done something. Carter almost had it in his grasp. Its too late now. America has not the political will to boldly confront Israel nor turn its back on her; Israel may do as she pleases without much concern for consequences for us. There is nothing short of nuclear war to slow the steady appropriation of the West Bank from what is left of Palestine.
I'm an old man now. I will not live to see actual peace in the Middle East. I only can hope that I will not see all out war, especially a nuclear exchange.
8
The two state fantasy was exposed years ago, but it's good Mr. Friedman has caught up. Perhaps now he'll stop writing about it.
Muslim countries have only begun the great convulsion that will probably lead to regional war sooner or later. Hopefully Americans have good enough memories to keep the whole mess at arms' length. And hopefully we'll have enough renewable and domestic energy that we won't be forced to intervene.
Humans fancy themselves such clever monkeys, but the middle east exposes the lie instantly. If anything, the region seems to do little but regress.
Muslim countries have only begun the great convulsion that will probably lead to regional war sooner or later. Hopefully Americans have good enough memories to keep the whole mess at arms' length. And hopefully we'll have enough renewable and domestic energy that we won't be forced to intervene.
Humans fancy themselves such clever monkeys, but the middle east exposes the lie instantly. If anything, the region seems to do little but regress.
4
Thomas Friedman has become irrelevant. He has no insight on what is going to happen in the Middle East. His observations on Israel are right, but his continued idiotic carping at Iran is simply laughable.
Here is an idea: The only solution in Syria is for the U.S. and Russia to get together and remove Turkey and Saudi Arabia from any involvement in Syria. There is no other solution.
Here is an idea: The only solution in Syria is for the U.S. and Russia to get together and remove Turkey and Saudi Arabia from any involvement in Syria. There is no other solution.
2
We all know that the area of the United States is HALF that Russia, but not everyone knows that the State of Israel is 22 times smaller than California…
This picture must be known – and not forgotten – when talking about Middle East solution!
This picture must be known – and not forgotten – when talking about Middle East solution!
12
The only thing that president Obama successfully changed over the last 7 years has been his character and personality.
His main accomplishment will be that he was the president that finally turned the voters against the political establishment. Now they are willing to vote even for a socialist!
The only reason why the people react in such a way is if they were betrayed.
The unquestionable conclusion is that Mr. Obama has betrayed both the voters and himself personally.
That’s why he didn’t accomplish anything important or permanent while in the office.
The world is much worse now than in January 2009.
The Middle East is in disarray too...
By the way, the socialists are not the people that want the others to pay for their spending and the whims.
The socialists are the people who put the society on top of their system of values.
Who are the best known socialists in America? That would be our military. They are willing to die protecting the society they live in, their country and their platoon...
Remember, the Middle East is not their society! They are not willing to die fighting for them!
His main accomplishment will be that he was the president that finally turned the voters against the political establishment. Now they are willing to vote even for a socialist!
The only reason why the people react in such a way is if they were betrayed.
The unquestionable conclusion is that Mr. Obama has betrayed both the voters and himself personally.
That’s why he didn’t accomplish anything important or permanent while in the office.
The world is much worse now than in January 2009.
The Middle East is in disarray too...
By the way, the socialists are not the people that want the others to pay for their spending and the whims.
The socialists are the people who put the society on top of their system of values.
Who are the best known socialists in America? That would be our military. They are willing to die protecting the society they live in, their country and their platoon...
Remember, the Middle East is not their society! They are not willing to die fighting for them!
2
Oh dear, Mr Friedman, you certainly aren't offering very much in the way of hope. But I note that even Bernie Sanders hasn't promised to bring peace to the Middle East.
2
Dear Mr. Friedman,
Let’s go from the realistic to the optimistic view of the Middle East. Could you let us know your opinion on what would happen if Iran make a statement indicating that Israel has the right to exist and condemn any attack on the people and state of Israel? Please don’t start with “it will never happen,” just tell us how the Middle East, Israel and the World will change if it happens.
Let’s go from the realistic to the optimistic view of the Middle East. Could you let us know your opinion on what would happen if Iran make a statement indicating that Israel has the right to exist and condemn any attack on the people and state of Israel? Please don’t start with “it will never happen,” just tell us how the Middle East, Israel and the World will change if it happens.
6
I think you're mostly right. I think you've identified what the Middle East will be like for the next president. You didn't identify what that president should do, and you can't be faulted for that, because it's impossibly complicated, and events will have to be handled as they occur. But:
1) Israel has become something of a rogue state itself and the next president should quietly back away.
2) In most cases, there will often be nothing the this country CAN do, so the next president will have to resist calls to "Don't just stand there, do something!". The refugee crisis is showing us that those who add fuel to any of the Mideast fires will be reaping a whirlwind.
1) Israel has become something of a rogue state itself and the next president should quietly back away.
2) In most cases, there will often be nothing the this country CAN do, so the next president will have to resist calls to "Don't just stand there, do something!". The refugee crisis is showing us that those who add fuel to any of the Mideast fires will be reaping a whirlwind.
3
It's certainly time to realize that we have no friends in the Middle East, least of all Saudi Arabia. The Saudi intent on bankrupting a US domestic oil industry is there for all to see. Let's hope our politicians wake up to this dire economic threat before it's too late.
3
It is time for America to put America and it citizens first. I am so tired of my congressman being funded by the Jews. He does not represent me, he represents Israel.
6
"Russia’s President Vladimir Putin is deliberately bombing anti-regime Syrians to drive them into Europe in hopes of creating a rift in the European Union..."
A wise observation, and a reminder that what happens in Syria won't stay in Syria.
A wise observation, and a reminder that what happens in Syria won't stay in Syria.
2
Great piece. Finally, an honest and realistic assessment of where we are and where we are heading in the Israeli-Palestinian imbroglio.
And since the Israeli government as a whole clearly feels the same as former Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman, can we please now keep the $3 billion we give to the Israelis annually since they are perfectly capable of paying for their own occupation of the West Bank?
And since the Israeli government as a whole clearly feels the same as former Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman, can we please now keep the $3 billion we give to the Israelis annually since they are perfectly capable of paying for their own occupation of the West Bank?
8
I have the solution to the Gordian-Knot known as The Middle East. I ain't telling you, though, because you'll have me strung up before Sundown. But ... A Star-Trek-I fan will know what I'm talking about, isn't that right, Lt. Commander Montgomery Scott?
"...and a growing Israeli isolation in Europe and on college campuses that the next U.S. president will have to navigate."
Well, this is truly the fault of Israel. That a U.S. President will have to "navigate" the seas of collegiate Anti-Semitism because the only Jewish state on the planet will not commit suicide to satisfy Tom Friedman and his ilk.
That would-be Israeli suicide is guaranteed by a Hamas which is determined to destroy Israel and exterminate the Jewish People, and newly invigorated with the 100 billion donated to them (not by Sheldon Adelson-Mr. Friedman's Jew bogeyman) but donated rather by the Left Wing of the Democratic Party and its desire to throw Israel under the bus so that the President could have temporary "foreign policy achievement" with Iran.
Oh, and the Arab youth gleefully achieving martyrdom by knifing any Jew they can find, the more pregnant the better, derives its support and inspiration not because they are "frustrated" with the "occupation," but because they decided long ago through their dose of daily anti-Jew incitement that there is no "two State" solution, just the one Islamic fascist State sought by Hamas, Iran, Hezbollah, and ISIS.
The wind of anti-Semitism blowing on college campuses uses the Arab-israeli struggle as justification for their anti-Jew initiatives. But the truth is as it has always been; the Arabs in Gaza , Judea and Samaria do not want real peace with a Jewish State under any terms.
Now, go find me a safe room.
Well, this is truly the fault of Israel. That a U.S. President will have to "navigate" the seas of collegiate Anti-Semitism because the only Jewish state on the planet will not commit suicide to satisfy Tom Friedman and his ilk.
That would-be Israeli suicide is guaranteed by a Hamas which is determined to destroy Israel and exterminate the Jewish People, and newly invigorated with the 100 billion donated to them (not by Sheldon Adelson-Mr. Friedman's Jew bogeyman) but donated rather by the Left Wing of the Democratic Party and its desire to throw Israel under the bus so that the President could have temporary "foreign policy achievement" with Iran.
Oh, and the Arab youth gleefully achieving martyrdom by knifing any Jew they can find, the more pregnant the better, derives its support and inspiration not because they are "frustrated" with the "occupation," but because they decided long ago through their dose of daily anti-Jew incitement that there is no "two State" solution, just the one Islamic fascist State sought by Hamas, Iran, Hezbollah, and ISIS.
The wind of anti-Semitism blowing on college campuses uses the Arab-israeli struggle as justification for their anti-Jew initiatives. But the truth is as it has always been; the Arabs in Gaza , Judea and Samaria do not want real peace with a Jewish State under any terms.
Now, go find me a safe room.
23
Please, go be a victimized martyr somewhere else. Your flippant dismissal of American college students' voices and their opinions on Israel drives to the heart of Israel's current predicament--that it's led by an increasing right-wing, unimaginative racist (see comments made before last Israeli elections) who has all but abandoned any hope of a two-state solution. True, fingers deserve to be pointed at Hamas and the potential 2001 agreement, but I have never seen things deteriorate so quickly--and with official backing--than under Bibi. Colonization, apartheid, race-baiting, contempt for past and present allies--this is the current Israel, and I'm sure the one of the future as well. I hope the right-wing Zionists are happy, for through their shortsighted sowing they are to reap the bitter wheat of more war, more terrorism, and more bloodshed.
6
Tom Friedman writes as if he lives his life in a bell jar.
Benny Morris, Ilan Pappe, Avi Schlaim, Tom Segev, Norman Finkelstein, Hillel Cohen, Baruch Kimmerling, and Simah Flapan. Do these names mean anything to him? Does he know who they are? They are The New Historians, of Israel and much of the Middle East, and the American, English, and French empires, and though we call it The New History, and the name “The New History” goes back to Benny Morris in 1988, the scholarship is much older.
How about Ha'aretz, B’Tselem, Gisha, Mondoweiss, LobeLog, If Americans Knew, Mateh Chomat Magen, Israel Social TV, Yesh Gvul, OneVoice, Breaking The Silence, Yesh Din, Rabbis for Human Rights, Adalah, Ta’ayush, The Negev Coexistence Forum for Civil Equality, Coalition of Women for Peace; Gush Shalom, The Public Committee Against Torture in Israel, Machsom Watch, Courage to Refuse, Hope Flowers School, New Profile, Combatants for Peace, Middle East Nonviolence and Democracy, Not In My Name, the Alternative Information Centre, the Association for Civil Rights in Israel, Zochrot, the Arab-Jewish Partnership, The New Israel Fund, HaMoked, Physicians for Human Rights (Israel), Kav LaOved, Windows – Channels for Communication, American Jews for a Just Peace, Jewish Voice for Peace, and the Israeli Committee Against house Demolitions?
There’s no way through the Israeli mess without truth and reconciliation, and truth comes first, so it’s time to tell the truth.
Benny Morris, Ilan Pappe, Avi Schlaim, Tom Segev, Norman Finkelstein, Hillel Cohen, Baruch Kimmerling, and Simah Flapan. Do these names mean anything to him? Does he know who they are? They are The New Historians, of Israel and much of the Middle East, and the American, English, and French empires, and though we call it The New History, and the name “The New History” goes back to Benny Morris in 1988, the scholarship is much older.
How about Ha'aretz, B’Tselem, Gisha, Mondoweiss, LobeLog, If Americans Knew, Mateh Chomat Magen, Israel Social TV, Yesh Gvul, OneVoice, Breaking The Silence, Yesh Din, Rabbis for Human Rights, Adalah, Ta’ayush, The Negev Coexistence Forum for Civil Equality, Coalition of Women for Peace; Gush Shalom, The Public Committee Against Torture in Israel, Machsom Watch, Courage to Refuse, Hope Flowers School, New Profile, Combatants for Peace, Middle East Nonviolence and Democracy, Not In My Name, the Alternative Information Centre, the Association for Civil Rights in Israel, Zochrot, the Arab-Jewish Partnership, The New Israel Fund, HaMoked, Physicians for Human Rights (Israel), Kav LaOved, Windows – Channels for Communication, American Jews for a Just Peace, Jewish Voice for Peace, and the Israeli Committee Against house Demolitions?
There’s no way through the Israeli mess without truth and reconciliation, and truth comes first, so it’s time to tell the truth.
4
A bit too pessimistic when it comes to the Israeli-Palestinian track. In the past attitudes have changed on a dime when there is suddenly a reason for optimism or pessimism. The extreme right-wingers led by Bibi are in charge now, but there position is not stronger than the peace-wing was at points in the 80's and 90's. Give Israelis a ray of hope and they will turn around again, just as attacks on buses and suicide attacks turned things around in previous generations.
17
Yes, the two-state solution is dead. But how in the world does Thomas Friedman avoid asking whether any of the following are responsible: Yasser Arafat, who spurned an excellent offer; all of the Arab world, which backed the Palestinians no matter how abhorrent they acted; the United States, which failed to pressure the Palestinians to accept a peace offer and instead funded the PA, or the United States that prohibited Israel from requiring the the Arabs suffer unconditional surrender, which would have required that they make peace; or all of Europe, which is anti-Semitic to the bone and never really cared whether Israel survived; or Iran which funds Hezbollah or any others who fund terrorism? Friedman is myopic and, because of people like him, there is no peace. That's it. There could have been peace long ago had the world recognized that there was not moral equivalency on the two sides, had the world permitted Israel a true victory, had the world forced the Palestinians to lay down their swords (by withdrawing funding), had the world resettled the "refugees" and not applied a different definition to them.
13
Going back to Joe McCarthy, Korea and Vietnam we have always let our imaginations run wild with respect to Russia's intentions.
All these years later we still cannot identify who the moderates are in Syria, how committed they are, or whether the arms we give them will not end up being used against us as happened in Iraq.
Eisenhower ended the fighting in Korea because fighting for an endless stalemate is absurd.
All these years later we still cannot identify who the moderates are in Syria, how committed they are, or whether the arms we give them will not end up being used against us as happened in Iraq.
Eisenhower ended the fighting in Korea because fighting for an endless stalemate is absurd.
1
How about now that oil is worthless, and since oil is the ONLY reason we ever cared about allying with Israel or invading their oil-producing neighbors in the region, we stop meddling in the Middle East and leave them to their irreconcileable 'squirmishes'?
As for Israel, it is the choice of Israelis to insist on locating their state in the one patch of desert where they'll always be in biblical combat with Arabs.
If Israel really wanted security & peace, they could pick up & move to a far less contentious patch of beachfront desert. I've suggested they buy part of Baja...
But it seems that a peaceful, secure homeland for Jews is not what Israelis are about. They seem to prefer this biblical, bloody endless war as part of their Old Testament legacy, their warlike reason for being.
If that's going to be Bibi's idea of Zionist nationalism, nobody can change him. But new generations of Israelis will continue to evacuate & flee mandatory conscription for wars they can never win, & expatriate to NYC to the rental agency trade, where so many young Israelis relocate.
Meanwhile:
USA OUT OF THE MIDDLE EAST!
As for Israel, it is the choice of Israelis to insist on locating their state in the one patch of desert where they'll always be in biblical combat with Arabs.
If Israel really wanted security & peace, they could pick up & move to a far less contentious patch of beachfront desert. I've suggested they buy part of Baja...
But it seems that a peaceful, secure homeland for Jews is not what Israelis are about. They seem to prefer this biblical, bloody endless war as part of their Old Testament legacy, their warlike reason for being.
If that's going to be Bibi's idea of Zionist nationalism, nobody can change him. But new generations of Israelis will continue to evacuate & flee mandatory conscription for wars they can never win, & expatriate to NYC to the rental agency trade, where so many young Israelis relocate.
Meanwhile:
USA OUT OF THE MIDDLE EAST!
2
Few problems:
Israel has very little oil, most kept for itself.
Jews actually have a connection to religious sites in the region.
Seizing a piece of Mexico or another country will never happen.
Israel has very little oil, most kept for itself.
Jews actually have a connection to religious sites in the region.
Seizing a piece of Mexico or another country will never happen.
5
You forgot the Jonathan Swift solution: nuke the place.
Some years ago you said something to the effect that the Middle East would not find peace unless its inhabitants learned to love their children more than they hated each other. Good luck with that. A plague on all their houses.
Some years ago you said something to the effect that the Middle East would not find peace unless its inhabitants learned to love their children more than they hated each other. Good luck with that. A plague on all their houses.
Under the pretense of being a moderate and sensible pundit, Friedman excels himself in writing one of his most partisan and nonsensical pieces. Netanyahu is only blamed for wanting to stick to power, while Hamas destroyed the possibility of a two-state solution by digging tunnels under Israel, Abbas did so by firing Fayyad, the Syrian chaos of course has nothing to do with Israel and its constant plots to break up its neighbors in the Middle East and providing assistance and medical treatment to the Al-Qaeda affiliated Nusra Front.
Meanwhile, Iran becomes the “rogue state” for allegedly using its proxies to dominate four Arab capitals. The fact that this Netanyahu nonsense that Friedman regurgitates is totally false does not stop him calling Iran a “rogue state”. Not let us see: which country has attacked every one of its neighbors during the past few decades, some more than once, committing war crimes; which country keeps expanding its illegal settlements in occupied territories and has kept five million (not 2.5 millions) Palestinians under a brutal occupation ever since its establishment; which country runs an apartheid state by separating the Jews from the original inhabitants of the land; which country carries out targeted assassinations and terrorist acts in the Middle East and beyond, which country has amassed an arsenal of nuclear weapons through deception and lying… I believe most readers know a “rogue state” when they see one.
Meanwhile, Iran becomes the “rogue state” for allegedly using its proxies to dominate four Arab capitals. The fact that this Netanyahu nonsense that Friedman regurgitates is totally false does not stop him calling Iran a “rogue state”. Not let us see: which country has attacked every one of its neighbors during the past few decades, some more than once, committing war crimes; which country keeps expanding its illegal settlements in occupied territories and has kept five million (not 2.5 millions) Palestinians under a brutal occupation ever since its establishment; which country runs an apartheid state by separating the Jews from the original inhabitants of the land; which country carries out targeted assassinations and terrorist acts in the Middle East and beyond, which country has amassed an arsenal of nuclear weapons through deception and lying… I believe most readers know a “rogue state” when they see one.
5
So please tell me who started most of those wars? Oh that would be the Arab states! Bibi is a disaster, but the Palestinians have never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity. If you are talking abut war crimes: sending rockets from civilian areas and using civilians as human shields, targeting of civilians, hiding weapons in schools and hospitals...oh that would be the Palestinians...there are no virgins here...as Friedman says they are all to blame
9
"The two-state solution is dead! Long live the two-state solution!"
2
"I am certain that Russia’s President Vladimir Putin is deliberately bombing anti-regime Syrians to drive them into Europe"
Unbelievable. Sure, Putin is out to destroy the west, he has no rational goals of his own. For one thing, the vast majority of Syrians live in govt and Kurdish areas, up to 75%.
Maybe Putin really doesn't want to see a Jihadist cesspool in Syria because it does destabilize Russia via the Chechyans and other neighboring republics. Also, a stable M.E. makes for a much better trading partner. He did patiently watch on the sidelines while we blew up Iraq and Libya, perhaps he had enough of our stewardship in the region.
Unbelievable. Sure, Putin is out to destroy the west, he has no rational goals of his own. For one thing, the vast majority of Syrians live in govt and Kurdish areas, up to 75%.
Maybe Putin really doesn't want to see a Jihadist cesspool in Syria because it does destabilize Russia via the Chechyans and other neighboring republics. Also, a stable M.E. makes for a much better trading partner. He did patiently watch on the sidelines while we blew up Iraq and Libya, perhaps he had enough of our stewardship in the region.
There never was a two-state solution based upon a civil secular plural egalitarian democracy where all persons were divinely naturally created equal with certain unalienable rights including life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Defining one state as a European Zionist Jewish Israel and the other as an Arab Islamist Muslim Palestine was inherently defective, unfair and inhumane. Neither state would be any more democratic than were enslaved and Jim Crow era America or apartheid era South Africa. The influence that Israel has in America rest on the demographic reality that although on 2% of Americans are Jewish 40% of the world's 16 million Jews live in America and another 40% live in Israel. Since the end of World War II Israel has received more American aid than any other nation.
The modern Middle East was created by the French and British Empires out of the remnants of the Ottoman Turk Empire after World War I and by the United Nations in the wake of World War II. With a focus on access and availability of fossil fuels along with strategic geography. A region divided by ethnicity among Europeans, Arabs, Turks, Persians and Kurds. And a area defined by sectarian schisms among Jews, Christians and Muslims the emphasis was on rule by compliant secular, theocratic and royal autocrat dictator tyrants.
There is no military solution to these conflicts. There are socioeconomic political diplomatic answers that require American interests primarily follow our values.
The modern Middle East was created by the French and British Empires out of the remnants of the Ottoman Turk Empire after World War I and by the United Nations in the wake of World War II. With a focus on access and availability of fossil fuels along with strategic geography. A region divided by ethnicity among Europeans, Arabs, Turks, Persians and Kurds. And a area defined by sectarian schisms among Jews, Christians and Muslims the emphasis was on rule by compliant secular, theocratic and royal autocrat dictator tyrants.
There is no military solution to these conflicts. There are socioeconomic political diplomatic answers that require American interests primarily follow our values.
3
If the two-state solution is dead, it is not Hamas and the PA that killed it as a possibility. This isn't to quibble over Hamas intentions or the decisions of the PA, take whatever view you want on those. Rather, it is to point out that Hamas and the PA have absolutely no ability to shift realities on the ground in any concrete way. They can oppose two states based on ideology but they can't make implementation of two states any less realistic as regards physical separation and borders. If the two state option is truly off the table, blame falls squarely on the shoulders of the successive Israeli governments - both Labor and Likud - which have expanded settlements and confiscated land that would allow for a contiguous Palestinian state. Separation is not made impossible by ideology. Ideology just makes separation difficult. Separation is made impossible by demographic and geographic changes and all changes in that respect have been made by Israel. Attempts to balance blame for the two state option disappearing are ridiculous, even if both sides have not helped past talks reach fruition.
4
"Was it the fanatical Jewish settlers determined to keep expanding their footprint in the West Bank and able to sabotage - or assassinate - any Israeli politician or army officer who opposed them?"
4
I think that prior Israeli administrations, and even Netanyahu's administration, would have been willing to rein in the settlers, if the Palestinians had shown any real interest in peace.
10
I do not care that Lieberman does not care what we think, but I think we really should stop funding the activities of people who think our values are irrelevant.
6
There are no new pronouncements here. The only solution that the Israelis want is a one Jewish Democratic State.
The two State solution was not killed by any force from outside Israel, it was made impossible by successive Israeli governments since their founding under a plan. Israeli Jewry never accepted leaving Jerusalem outside their influence.
And yes there is a lot of blame to go around for these short coming with one premise as if it is our responsibility to ensure peace throughout the world. We are not the policemen to the world. We do and must look out for our strategic interest. Our first strategic interest must be our homeland and its people, who must get the Best Education, Best Healthcare, Best infra-structure, Best homeland security etc. When I look around it appears that the MIC is more interested in fermenting wars overseas by getting us involved in a lot of unnecessary situations which their proxies start and then they provide products to keep killing people and putting more money in their coffers.
If Israelis want a single State let them have it; we have a lot of problems right here in our country, let us concentrate and find equitable solutions to tackle them, let us spend our limited resources in building things such as Roads, Bridges, HIS, Schools, Health facilities and state of the art research facilities such as NIH etc.
BTW, 9-11 hijackers were Saudis and not Iranian, or Syrians. In Syria over 2200 ISIS members are Saudis.
The two State solution was not killed by any force from outside Israel, it was made impossible by successive Israeli governments since their founding under a plan. Israeli Jewry never accepted leaving Jerusalem outside their influence.
And yes there is a lot of blame to go around for these short coming with one premise as if it is our responsibility to ensure peace throughout the world. We are not the policemen to the world. We do and must look out for our strategic interest. Our first strategic interest must be our homeland and its people, who must get the Best Education, Best Healthcare, Best infra-structure, Best homeland security etc. When I look around it appears that the MIC is more interested in fermenting wars overseas by getting us involved in a lot of unnecessary situations which their proxies start and then they provide products to keep killing people and putting more money in their coffers.
If Israelis want a single State let them have it; we have a lot of problems right here in our country, let us concentrate and find equitable solutions to tackle them, let us spend our limited resources in building things such as Roads, Bridges, HIS, Schools, Health facilities and state of the art research facilities such as NIH etc.
BTW, 9-11 hijackers were Saudis and not Iranian, or Syrians. In Syria over 2200 ISIS members are Saudis.
3
Caroline Glick's "The Israeli Solution" covers the history of the Land of Israel (back before even the 1947 UN Resolution), and she presents the only rational solution: As the Arabs in Gaza and Judea and Samaria have demonstrated repeatedly over the last 20 years, they are not interested in a solution where Israel exists. Take them at their word, and stop pretending Arabs are interested in a two-state solution, because they're not. Glick's solution: Israel to take Judea and Samaria as part of Israel - thereby providing human rights to Arabs living there that the current rulers (the Palestinian Authority) do not provide. Gaza can remain the hell-hole it is, so long as Hamas is in charge (after winning tyranny over the Arabs in Gaza, Hamas slaughtered everyone who disagreed with them by running as candidates against them).
9
Im not sure how willing to commit the USA is, but arming, training, equipping and largely supporting the Kurds rarely sees light in the media yet it is the bold response to the mideast conundrum you paint that could succeed in defeating ISIS which is the first step in going towards some sort of settlement/equilibrium. The Kurds deserve a state, and they could defend and govern it. Has not the US previously used its muscle to effect such change? The refugee crisis, and other crisis will only get worse without a strong unified Western response and now is the time for our manager in charge (pres) to become our leader in charge (c in c).
3
It is either your obsession with Netanyahu or your frustration with the fact that since "from Bayreuth to Jerusalem" you were never right about any developments in the Middle East (and in Israel as well), now you are wrong again. You are wrong, It will not be a Middle East shaped by struggle over a one-state solution, a no-state solution, a non-state solution and a rogue-state solution because it is not relevant.
I do understand your frustration that the Israeli government does not pay attention to your advise but why should they? did you check your advises over the years? Half the article is Israel and Netanyahu, why? The title is "The Many Mideast Solutions" you really believe that Israel is a player? you seems to believe that a peace between Israel and 1/4 of the Palestinians (the Palestinian Authority) will make any difference? You really believe that the Hamas plays a role? by the way, he may be alone but majority Palestinians support him (yes, I know, its Netanyahu fault). You do not even understand what Putin is doing and why.
The many Mideast problems can be solved only if and when the US, Russia, Iran, Turkey, Saudi and Egypt will agree to do it and they will agree only if Obama and Putin will force it. But your President, Mr. Friedman is the one to blame, not Netanyahu not the Hamas or ISIS, not even Putin but Obama who stutters, hesitates and shows weakness and indecision.
I do understand your frustration that the Israeli government does not pay attention to your advise but why should they? did you check your advises over the years? Half the article is Israel and Netanyahu, why? The title is "The Many Mideast Solutions" you really believe that Israel is a player? you seems to believe that a peace between Israel and 1/4 of the Palestinians (the Palestinian Authority) will make any difference? You really believe that the Hamas plays a role? by the way, he may be alone but majority Palestinians support him (yes, I know, its Netanyahu fault). You do not even understand what Putin is doing and why.
The many Mideast problems can be solved only if and when the US, Russia, Iran, Turkey, Saudi and Egypt will agree to do it and they will agree only if Obama and Putin will force it. But your President, Mr. Friedman is the one to blame, not Netanyahu not the Hamas or ISIS, not even Putin but Obama who stutters, hesitates and shows weakness and indecision.
9
Friedman writes: "I am certain that Russia’s President Vladimir Putin is deliberately bombing anti-regime Syrians to drive them into Europe in hopes of creating a rift in the European Union, strain its resources and make it a weaker rival to Russia and a weaker ally for America."
This allegation of malevolence on the part of Putin seems fantastically counterfactual. What is it that gives Friedman this certainty?
Putin's intent seems to be re-establishing the governance of the Assad regime in Syria and preserving the Russian naval base there rather than doing harm to Europe and America.
Friedman's completely unsupported allegation is utterly irresponsible unless he has some evidence upon which to base it. If he has such evidence, he should share it with his readers.
This allegation of malevolence on the part of Putin seems fantastically counterfactual. What is it that gives Friedman this certainty?
Putin's intent seems to be re-establishing the governance of the Assad regime in Syria and preserving the Russian naval base there rather than doing harm to Europe and America.
Friedman's completely unsupported allegation is utterly irresponsible unless he has some evidence upon which to base it. If he has such evidence, he should share it with his readers.
6
A clear-eyed analysis of the situation.
1
One of the things that is rarely mentioned is that the birthrate of Palestinians is substantially higher than it is for Israelis, which is not overcome by older people immigrating to Israel. Over time, the imbalance will create real problems for Israel, unless it makes serious strides to recognize the Palestinians as legitimate. Face it, they have all been in the area for thousands of years, and to disenfranchise one of the significant groups will not work over time.
Dear Mr. Friedman,
You end your monologue with this, "So my advice to all the candidates is:..."
Please quit advising what everyone else should do with regards to the Middle East. No one outside the region (and that includes you) has any clue as to how to resolve the myriad of problems that beset the region. The only ones who can can solve their problems are the peoples and governments who live there. It's about time pundits and politicians understand that.
You end your monologue with this, "So my advice to all the candidates is:..."
Please quit advising what everyone else should do with regards to the Middle East. No one outside the region (and that includes you) has any clue as to how to resolve the myriad of problems that beset the region. The only ones who can can solve their problems are the peoples and governments who live there. It's about time pundits and politicians understand that.
4
Curious how the world's brightest people reject a diverse democracy. As a non-Jew, my question is : would Israel's Jews lose their identity and sense of who they are by extending full voting rights to Palestenians in Israel?
2
Dear Mr. Friedman,
Would love to see you offer some solutions, but at least you've anlalyzed the problem rationally, and summarized the problems accurately and succinctly.
Our political system is not driven by reason anymore. It's more driven by all-or-nothing ideologies for who truth his secondary to ideological loyalty. Money also has a corrupting influence and legislators are driven more by whom they get money from than what's the right decision to make.
It remains to be sen whether the USA can function well in a world where you have to be wily and not just bigger and stronger than everyone else.
Would love to see you offer some solutions, but at least you've anlalyzed the problem rationally, and summarized the problems accurately and succinctly.
Our political system is not driven by reason anymore. It's more driven by all-or-nothing ideologies for who truth his secondary to ideological loyalty. Money also has a corrupting influence and legislators are driven more by whom they get money from than what's the right decision to make.
It remains to be sen whether the USA can function well in a world where you have to be wily and not just bigger and stronger than everyone else.
2
Interesting how the most space in the article is spent criticizing Israel. The NYT, Friedman and the left all have Israel - OCD. I am surprised they do not blame global warming on Israel.
If Israel gives the Palestinians everything they want, it will create one more failed state like Libya or Syria which will constantly soot missles into Israel. And guess what, not one of the other problems in the Middle East will be solved.
If you stopped assuming that pressuring Israel is the key to solving the world's problems, you might actually get something done.
If Israel gives the Palestinians everything they want, it will create one more failed state like Libya or Syria which will constantly soot missles into Israel. And guess what, not one of the other problems in the Middle East will be solved.
If you stopped assuming that pressuring Israel is the key to solving the world's problems, you might actually get something done.
14
Zion? How ironic.....missiles? You mean small rockets that in the years they have been used have killed almost no one and done almost no property damage. How about the attack by Israel on the Palestinians that leveled blocks of buildings, left thousands homeless and murdered thousand of Palestinians..... Israel is a nuclear power with an army and airfare and the backing of the US with billions in arms - yeah, they are just humble observers..... think again zion.
By giving them what they what you mean not taking what was theirs? ILLEGAL settlements, fences dividing Palestinians from their own land,
By giving them what they what you mean not taking what was theirs? ILLEGAL settlements, fences dividing Palestinians from their own land,
2
Thanks again to Thomas Friedman's badly needed breath of fresh air and informed perspective on the Middle East.
People make this too complicated.
Until Israel and the Palestinian people are ready to find peace, there'll never be peace.
It's as simple as that.
Until Israel and the Palestinian people are ready to find peace, there'll never be peace.
It's as simple as that.
1
why can Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and more be Muslim countries....but Israel wanting to be a Jewish country is the end of the world?
Hypocrisy.
Syria murders over 200,000 of their own citizens. Literally slaughters them.and the west barely makes a fuss. Or does anything meaningful about it.
Hypocrisy.
Why is it that hamas..a recognized terrorist group can have a charter to kill all Jews and destroy Israel....that builds tunnels to kidnap and murder innocent people...and Hamas sends hundreds upon hundreds of rockets onto innocent people...and Hamas does nothing for there people....yet they get a free pass.
Hypocrisy.
Israel is far from perfect.
But at least they have a democracy. Elections. LGBT rights. Women rights.
And what do the other muslim noted above have...autocrats....dictators...that kill their own people...hang them, stone them, lash them...and more.
Their are more Muslims In Israel. They there are Jews in the entire Middle East.
Why?
Because it's OK for these Middle East Muslim countries to kill Jews. Kick Jews out. And yes, do the same to the Christians.
And where is tom Friedman. Where is the UN on really pushing these matters.
They blame the ONLY country that actually lives these values.
Imperfectly?
Yes.
But no one. No one. Has massacred their own people. Started essentially a war amongst themselves and the modern world...like the Middle East Muslim countries
Stop being a hypocrite. Start looking at facts.
Hypocrisy.
Syria murders over 200,000 of their own citizens. Literally slaughters them.and the west barely makes a fuss. Or does anything meaningful about it.
Hypocrisy.
Why is it that hamas..a recognized terrorist group can have a charter to kill all Jews and destroy Israel....that builds tunnels to kidnap and murder innocent people...and Hamas sends hundreds upon hundreds of rockets onto innocent people...and Hamas does nothing for there people....yet they get a free pass.
Hypocrisy.
Israel is far from perfect.
But at least they have a democracy. Elections. LGBT rights. Women rights.
And what do the other muslim noted above have...autocrats....dictators...that kill their own people...hang them, stone them, lash them...and more.
Their are more Muslims In Israel. They there are Jews in the entire Middle East.
Why?
Because it's OK for these Middle East Muslim countries to kill Jews. Kick Jews out. And yes, do the same to the Christians.
And where is tom Friedman. Where is the UN on really pushing these matters.
They blame the ONLY country that actually lives these values.
Imperfectly?
Yes.
But no one. No one. Has massacred their own people. Started essentially a war amongst themselves and the modern world...like the Middle East Muslim countries
Stop being a hypocrite. Start looking at facts.
19
Israel should be a Jewish and democratic country. The one state solution jeopardizes both.
3
Hey Roger, you mean the facts like the expansion of ILLEGAL settlements into the west bank? You mean the murder of thousands of Palestinians - yes murder of thousands - by a superior armed force in retaliation for relatively minor offensives by an occupied people . yes occupation - when a country can force its inhabitants to give up their land, their homes, their jobs because well, we say so? Th ePalestinians are supposedly part of Israel so yes, they have massacred their own people and feel good about it. Shame on Israel - the ultimate hypocrites.
2
Avigdor Lieberman doesn't care what Americans think but he will start to care when we rightfully decide to stop giving money to his country.
Why are we giving money to them in the first place? When Israel was established it was a poor, under-developed, backwater, up and coming country under siege so giving them aid made some sense. Today, however, they have a strong currency with a vital economy. They have many millionaires plus some billionaires. If Israel needs money get it from them, not US.
We don't give money to France, do we?
Why are we giving money to them in the first place? When Israel was established it was a poor, under-developed, backwater, up and coming country under siege so giving them aid made some sense. Today, however, they have a strong currency with a vital economy. They have many millionaires plus some billionaires. If Israel needs money get it from them, not US.
We don't give money to France, do we?
6
Consider this approach for U.S. policy in the Middle East: Withdraw. Withdraw all our troops, advisers, operatives, contractors, money and arms from the entire Middle East, from Pakistan to Morocco including Israel. Two reasons: 1. The Middle East is not important to the U.S. 2. We have demonstrated that we are not capable of improving the M.E. situation, only capable of making it worse.
5
"Withdraw all (US) troops, advisers, operatives, contractors, money and arms from the entire Middle East..."
Vladimir Putin could not agree with you more.
Vladimir Putin could not agree with you more.
3
As an American born Jewish person I've always placed a portion of my loyalty to the State of Israel. I still do. I, like so many others, have, for the last six to eight years ask myself why the Israeli's have not managed to make a peace treaty with the Palestinians. There is one reason amongest many that does stand out. "IF" the Palestinians or Hamas would have removed the words, in their constitutions, that call for the total destruction of the Jewish State and the Jews from the face of the earth, it might have done wonders. Of course this never happens, and Iran for one still regularly calls for the total elimination of Israel.
It also seems that the United Nations keeps putting Countries like Iran, Syria, Libya, Algeria etal, on committees investigating human rights, of all the hypocrisy, things like this take the cake. Then too, when a group targets Israel with missiles, daily, it is the Israeli's who are blamed.
So it seems to me that over the years Israeli's have come to the determination that THEY will always be standing alone in the Middle East. Added to this is the situation of the last few years with the Taliban, ISIS/ISIL and the turmoil in the Muslim world. It appears that the Israeli's are collecting every inch of territory they can so that defending themselves will be just a little bit easier.
SO, as far as the future is visible the two state solution is deader than Kelsey's Nuts. And the Israeli's will defend themselves to the last man.
It also seems that the United Nations keeps putting Countries like Iran, Syria, Libya, Algeria etal, on committees investigating human rights, of all the hypocrisy, things like this take the cake. Then too, when a group targets Israel with missiles, daily, it is the Israeli's who are blamed.
So it seems to me that over the years Israeli's have come to the determination that THEY will always be standing alone in the Middle East. Added to this is the situation of the last few years with the Taliban, ISIS/ISIL and the turmoil in the Muslim world. It appears that the Israeli's are collecting every inch of territory they can so that defending themselves will be just a little bit easier.
SO, as far as the future is visible the two state solution is deader than Kelsey's Nuts. And the Israeli's will defend themselves to the last man.
67
BUBAMEISES!!!!
Israel could have easily ignored the empty paper threat of national destruction and aggressively sought a peace agreement, even throwing in many of the concessions demanded by the Palestinians because they could, and still can, crush the whole Arab world 3 times over due to the billions in American military aid over the last 30 years, not to mention their nuclear arsenal. The right wing has used this "sentence" in the Palestinian charter to scare the electorate into submitting to their lust for power. Words, a few ineffectual rocket attacks and the random flailing of a powerless people have been used to keep the Israeli public on edge just enough to justify perpetual war. Neither words nor stick and stones could have hurt Israel when they had a chance for peace. Now it's too late. Time to make more nukes.
Israel could have easily ignored the empty paper threat of national destruction and aggressively sought a peace agreement, even throwing in many of the concessions demanded by the Palestinians because they could, and still can, crush the whole Arab world 3 times over due to the billions in American military aid over the last 30 years, not to mention their nuclear arsenal. The right wing has used this "sentence" in the Palestinian charter to scare the electorate into submitting to their lust for power. Words, a few ineffectual rocket attacks and the random flailing of a powerless people have been used to keep the Israeli public on edge just enough to justify perpetual war. Neither words nor stick and stones could have hurt Israel when they had a chance for peace. Now it's too late. Time to make more nukes.
A Republican President would be better for Israel than either Clinton or Sanders.
7
Just one correction Mr. Friedman, and you've evaded this fact for years: There has never truly been a Palestinian (or Arab) supporter of a two-state solution. Only a one-state solution: all Palestinian Muslim all the time.
8
The story is one of Shi'a and Sunnis killing each other and also killing Jews due to theological anti-Semitism dating back to the earliest days of Islam, when Jews were annihilated throughout Arabia.
The story is also one of Jews defending themselves today and crybullies complaining that they are not surrendering and committing national suicide.
We can see what happens to ethnic minorities in the Middle East that do not defend themselves.
The Zoroastrians (Parsis) and Bahais have been annihilated by the Shi'a.
The Yazidis, Armenians, and Aramean Christians have been annihilated or expelled by the Sunnis.
The Kurds and Druze are under daily threat and deprived of their national rights.
The Kurds, Baluchi, Turkmen, Azeri, Druze, Western Saharan, Berbers, and Copts are occupied and persecuted.
The Jews have built the only functional state from Morocco to Pakistan--one that has become the headquarters for the Bahai, the only place where Druze are not forcibly converted to Islam, the only place where the Christian population has grown considerably, the only place where Palestinians live civil rights, the only place where Jews are not expropriated, harassed, and expelled.
The story of peace processing in the past 100 years has been one of generous offers by the Jews and firm unqualified rejection by the Palestinians.
The story is also one of Jews defending themselves today and crybullies complaining that they are not surrendering and committing national suicide.
We can see what happens to ethnic minorities in the Middle East that do not defend themselves.
The Zoroastrians (Parsis) and Bahais have been annihilated by the Shi'a.
The Yazidis, Armenians, and Aramean Christians have been annihilated or expelled by the Sunnis.
The Kurds and Druze are under daily threat and deprived of their national rights.
The Kurds, Baluchi, Turkmen, Azeri, Druze, Western Saharan, Berbers, and Copts are occupied and persecuted.
The Jews have built the only functional state from Morocco to Pakistan--one that has become the headquarters for the Bahai, the only place where Druze are not forcibly converted to Islam, the only place where the Christian population has grown considerably, the only place where Palestinians live civil rights, the only place where Jews are not expropriated, harassed, and expelled.
The story of peace processing in the past 100 years has been one of generous offers by the Jews and firm unqualified rejection by the Palestinians.
14
I was already a bit depressed about the state of the world this morning (starting with a local weakening of clean water laws and moving outward through the nation.
Friedman has expanded on that nicely.
And he has a major point. A two-state solution at this point requires making so many long shot bets that it's not worth a lot of energy. (And that's true whether or not one thinks that he apportioned the blame correctly.)
About the only thing continued advocacy for two states might do is to forestall the "solution" that is emerging. A single state, Israel, with two unequal classes of people: Israeli citizens and Palestinian subjects.
Forestall for what? Sometimes the unexpected does happen and new opportunities and ideas arrive from unlikely places. But that's a thin branch on which to hang one's hopes.
Friedman has expanded on that nicely.
And he has a major point. A two-state solution at this point requires making so many long shot bets that it's not worth a lot of energy. (And that's true whether or not one thinks that he apportioned the blame correctly.)
About the only thing continued advocacy for two states might do is to forestall the "solution" that is emerging. A single state, Israel, with two unequal classes of people: Israeli citizens and Palestinian subjects.
Forestall for what? Sometimes the unexpected does happen and new opportunities and ideas arrive from unlikely places. But that's a thin branch on which to hang one's hopes.
I believe that Mr. Friedman does not consider one of the older solutions from history as practical or feasible:
1. Reestablishment of one state's power over the Middle East, such as the pre-1918 rule of the Ottoman Empire;
2. Reconstruction of the Crusaders' Kingdom of Jerusalem in its full geographical extent.
Other than that, how many Nobel Prizes for Peace have been awarded to politicians for their efforts to create a stable situation there?
1. Reestablishment of one state's power over the Middle East, such as the pre-1918 rule of the Ottoman Empire;
2. Reconstruction of the Crusaders' Kingdom of Jerusalem in its full geographical extent.
Other than that, how many Nobel Prizes for Peace have been awarded to politicians for their efforts to create a stable situation there?
Shorter Friedman---including the missing historical foundation: The middle east has been a political mess ever since the Europeans and Americans felt they had the right to partition the region into pseudo states with no real historical or cultural coherence. The results have been predictable and horrible----and they will continue for as long as any of us are alive.
I, for one, am more than a bit tired of the whole Israli/Middle East thing. We have spent more blood and treasure there than it can possibly be worth. We should simply tell the region, "Work it out." Every president in my rather long life time has tried and failed to bring stability to the region. The next one won't either. It's a God thing and you simply cannot get to a secular solution when God is involved. We need to stop trying, get off the oil tit and tell them we no longer support anyone.
1
The enire Middle East is falling apart in a process of regrouping along god knows what lines. Despite that Mr Friedman wants Israel (the only non-Muslim country in the heart of the Muslim world) to give up its defences. For what purpose? To get peace?? Or bloodbath.
6
Thanks Tom, for laying out the obvious so clearly. However, I have one bone to pick with you.
The current situation is almost entirely the responsibility of diasporic Jews who unconditionally support Israel. The Palestinians are the occupied, they have little to do with it and the absolute right to resist. The Israelis are simply taking advantage of the guilt of their Jewish brethren.
As long as Jews feel they cannot criticize Israel openly, it will continue to self-destruct and become just another fundamentalist state in the Mideast. We will find that it is not an ally, but an adversary.
The current situation is almost entirely the responsibility of diasporic Jews who unconditionally support Israel. The Palestinians are the occupied, they have little to do with it and the absolute right to resist. The Israelis are simply taking advantage of the guilt of their Jewish brethren.
As long as Jews feel they cannot criticize Israel openly, it will continue to self-destruct and become just another fundamentalist state in the Mideast. We will find that it is not an ally, but an adversary.
1
"The Palestinians are the occupied, they have little to do with it and the absolute right to resist."
Who sank the Clinton Parameters in 2001? I would argue that, in rejecting the Clinton Parameters and in indicating an almost certain rejection of the Kerry Initiative, Palestinians had choices and made them. None of this excuses Netanyahu's refusal or inability to also make sound choices, rather it is a reminder both sides had choices and neither of them made good ones.
Who sank the Clinton Parameters in 2001? I would argue that, in rejecting the Clinton Parameters and in indicating an almost certain rejection of the Kerry Initiative, Palestinians had choices and made them. None of this excuses Netanyahu's refusal or inability to also make sound choices, rather it is a reminder both sides had choices and neither of them made good ones.
4
How do you turn Gaza into Singapore when Israel allows you neither imports nor exports!?
Mr. Friedman bemoans platitudes about the Middle East, but his complete remove from the day-to-day reality Palestinians are subject to, has for many years divorced from relevancy, his many pronouncements on the Middle East.
He ostentatiously tells us about "tough neighborhoods," playing into self-aggrandizing Israeli characterizations,
exhorts us into obscene wars in Iraq ("hey look at the transformative potential" - well, that we've seen!),
and then deigns to share his "vision" for the Middle East with us!
His cluelessness about Iranian motivations and objectives remains breathtakingly appalling!
Given his record, if there is a topic he needs to stay away from, the Middle East is it!
Mr. Friedman bemoans platitudes about the Middle East, but his complete remove from the day-to-day reality Palestinians are subject to, has for many years divorced from relevancy, his many pronouncements on the Middle East.
He ostentatiously tells us about "tough neighborhoods," playing into self-aggrandizing Israeli characterizations,
exhorts us into obscene wars in Iraq ("hey look at the transformative potential" - well, that we've seen!),
and then deigns to share his "vision" for the Middle East with us!
His cluelessness about Iranian motivations and objectives remains breathtakingly appalling!
Given his record, if there is a topic he needs to stay away from, the Middle East is it!
1
"How do you turn Gaza into Singapore when Israel allows you neither imports nor exports!?"
What makes anyone think that making Gaza like Singapore was ever in Hama's game plan? If that had been Hamas's goal, Gaza would have been well along that path by now, with strong diplomatic and financial support, whether Israel liked it or not. Sadly, it never was.
What makes anyone think that making Gaza like Singapore was ever in Hama's game plan? If that had been Hamas's goal, Gaza would have been well along that path by now, with strong diplomatic and financial support, whether Israel liked it or not. Sadly, it never was.
7
This reads an acknowledgement, long overdue, that the United States has nothing constructive to bring to the region and nothing good or useful to extract (anymore) from the region. We have chosen greed and "stability" over justice and development so consistently and ruthlessly that there is absolutely no reason to think that United States involvement means anything good for the people. Sometimes, making amends begins with separation.
48
Yes, the 1950s were wonderful. Israel was the noble underdog with admirable spirit and ingenuity. Arab states needed our technical expertise and our generosity. Europe worshiped at our feet, and so did Japan. Here at home, nearly everyone had greater opportunity than in our parents’ generation. And technology was totally positive… no dark clouds in sight.
One of the biggest dark clouds is that we can’t seem to let go of our 1950’s view of the world and see things for what they are... here and now. As dark as things may look today, they’ll only get darker if we continue to believe we can go back. Donald wants to “make America great again.” Obviously, plenty of 1950’s-era dreamers are eager to get on board the time machine and go on the fantasy tour. I would invite all of them to read Mr. Friedman's article!
One of the biggest dark clouds is that we can’t seem to let go of our 1950’s view of the world and see things for what they are... here and now. As dark as things may look today, they’ll only get darker if we continue to believe we can go back. Donald wants to “make America great again.” Obviously, plenty of 1950’s-era dreamers are eager to get on board the time machine and go on the fantasy tour. I would invite all of them to read Mr. Friedman's article!
61
For the first time in a long time I agree with Friedman but only almost 100%.
Why "almost" 100%? He overstates Israel's fault in the failure to create a 2-state solution. Last December Arthur Cohen wrote a column verifying it was Abbas scuttled scuttled Kerry's peace framework plan.
Friedman is correct that Israel's right wing's resistance to the 2-state solution is a big factor. In my view however, it's Israel's security interests that are the main reasons for resistance to a peace agreement with the Palestinian's. Friedman makes this case but chooses to minimize Israel's security interests vs. Israeli right wing's desire to block a peace agreement and create a "one state solution", restoring Israel to its ancient borders that included Judea and Samaria, i.e., the west bank to the Jordan river with an undivided Jerusalem.
A 2-state solution is really impossible because of the security risk to Israel from Hamas taking control of the West Bank from Abbas and the Palestinian Authority, it's continued creation of assault tunnels and growing sophistication of Hamas rockets, and of course the Syria, Hezbollah, Iran triumvirate that threatens Israel from the North also with improved rockets.
The B.D.S. movement , the E.U., and diaspora Jews who lost connection to Israel due to assimilation are making Israel look inward for its survival. They need to see the reality of Israel's horrid security situation, stop de-legitimizing Israel, and support her instead.
Why "almost" 100%? He overstates Israel's fault in the failure to create a 2-state solution. Last December Arthur Cohen wrote a column verifying it was Abbas scuttled scuttled Kerry's peace framework plan.
Friedman is correct that Israel's right wing's resistance to the 2-state solution is a big factor. In my view however, it's Israel's security interests that are the main reasons for resistance to a peace agreement with the Palestinian's. Friedman makes this case but chooses to minimize Israel's security interests vs. Israeli right wing's desire to block a peace agreement and create a "one state solution", restoring Israel to its ancient borders that included Judea and Samaria, i.e., the west bank to the Jordan river with an undivided Jerusalem.
A 2-state solution is really impossible because of the security risk to Israel from Hamas taking control of the West Bank from Abbas and the Palestinian Authority, it's continued creation of assault tunnels and growing sophistication of Hamas rockets, and of course the Syria, Hezbollah, Iran triumvirate that threatens Israel from the North also with improved rockets.
The B.D.S. movement , the E.U., and diaspora Jews who lost connection to Israel due to assimilation are making Israel look inward for its survival. They need to see the reality of Israel's horrid security situation, stop de-legitimizing Israel, and support her instead.
76
It's hard to figure out where to start with many of Friedman's fantasy's. He clings to them with such tenacity that without close examination you might even believe them to be true. But here are a couple:
Who killed the two state solution? The settler policy. Remember the Sinai was occupied, but not settled by Israel and it was subsequently returned to Egypt and a peace treaty signed. The same could have occurred in the West Bank but for Israel's territorial expansion.
Gaza as a potential Singapore? Gaza was occupied for nearly 40 years. When the settlements left in 05 the blockade was put into place and continues to this day. If you want to even buy a book in Gaza you have to get permission from the IDF. Remember to calories per person policy of the IDF? Just enough to survive, barely, but not to prosper.
You mention Libya and Iraq as failed states, but conveniently fail to mention how they unraveled. Might it have something to do with US invasions and planned dismemberment?
I'm no fan of the authoritarian dictatorships in the Middle East, but US efforts to change that have been ill conceived, driven by US economic interest in oil and bereft of support for true indigenous democratic efforts like the Arab spring movement.
The issues the US faces in the region are many, but the biggest challenge is approaching them differently than we have in the past. This begins with pursuing stability in Syria over regime change. When the patient is critical, first stop the bleeding.
Who killed the two state solution? The settler policy. Remember the Sinai was occupied, but not settled by Israel and it was subsequently returned to Egypt and a peace treaty signed. The same could have occurred in the West Bank but for Israel's territorial expansion.
Gaza as a potential Singapore? Gaza was occupied for nearly 40 years. When the settlements left in 05 the blockade was put into place and continues to this day. If you want to even buy a book in Gaza you have to get permission from the IDF. Remember to calories per person policy of the IDF? Just enough to survive, barely, but not to prosper.
You mention Libya and Iraq as failed states, but conveniently fail to mention how they unraveled. Might it have something to do with US invasions and planned dismemberment?
I'm no fan of the authoritarian dictatorships in the Middle East, but US efforts to change that have been ill conceived, driven by US economic interest in oil and bereft of support for true indigenous democratic efforts like the Arab spring movement.
The issues the US faces in the region are many, but the biggest challenge is approaching them differently than we have in the past. This begins with pursuing stability in Syria over regime change. When the patient is critical, first stop the bleeding.
85
Have you forgotten that Gaza was quite well developed, and in very good condition, when Israel unilaterally walked out. Plus, they left behind greenhouses which produced millions of dollars of income. The Palestinians destroyed it all and made a mess of it - their scorched earth policy. Had they run Gaza like Israel did, there would be no blockade, etc. Get your facts right.
8
A little correction of this historical revisionism...
1. Had the Palestinians accepted the Camp David Accords (remember them? They led to a peace treaty with Egypt), they would have been much closer to a goal of a sovereign state, specifically including control of water.
2. Gaza was occupied by Egypt from 1948 until 1967. Egypt refused to take control of Gaza when Israel was withdrawing from the rest of Sinai, possibly because it understood it was a basket case and possibly because it didn't want to make life easier for the Israelis. For the record, whatever infrastructure Israel left behind in Gaza was pretty much neglected since.
3. The blockade of Gaza was the in direct response to repeated terrorists incursions and rocket attacks on Israel. Recall, Israel even intercepted a freighter in the Red Sea loaded with rockets purchased by Yasser Arafat's PLO while Arafat was supposedly negotiating a deal with Israel. That led to Israel snubbing Arafat for the rest of his life. One could go on, but historical fact is more complex than simple blame games.
1. Had the Palestinians accepted the Camp David Accords (remember them? They led to a peace treaty with Egypt), they would have been much closer to a goal of a sovereign state, specifically including control of water.
2. Gaza was occupied by Egypt from 1948 until 1967. Egypt refused to take control of Gaza when Israel was withdrawing from the rest of Sinai, possibly because it understood it was a basket case and possibly because it didn't want to make life easier for the Israelis. For the record, whatever infrastructure Israel left behind in Gaza was pretty much neglected since.
3. The blockade of Gaza was the in direct response to repeated terrorists incursions and rocket attacks on Israel. Recall, Israel even intercepted a freighter in the Red Sea loaded with rockets purchased by Yasser Arafat's PLO while Arafat was supposedly negotiating a deal with Israel. That led to Israel snubbing Arafat for the rest of his life. One could go on, but historical fact is more complex than simple blame games.
9
Blatant distortion of facts: "Gaza as a potential Singapore? Gaza was occupied for nearly 40 years. When the settlements left in 05 the blockade was put into place and continues to this day." Gaza wasn't blockaded until the PA was ousted by Hamas in Gaza. The Israelis even left infrastructure that the Gazians could have used to start building a viable country--instead they tore it all down. Friedman is right in that instead of shoveling all the world's aid into building terror tunnels and rockets, they could have built roads, hospitals, schools--infrastructure for a viable country. they chose not to while those Hams leaders live in million dollar villas all at the expense of the people they rule over. please get your facts right.
3
Thanks Mr. Friedman for your accurate if grim look at the region.
Sooner than you think America is going to have to make up its mind about supporting an Israel that has transformed itself from a nation of virtue to a nation of thief's.
Sooner than you think America is going to have to make up its mind about supporting an Israel that has transformed itself from a nation of virtue to a nation of thief's.
1
From Hillary Clinton to the countless numbers of Republicans' more war seems to be the solution.
1
Mr. Friedman, don't you think our best hope in that region is now Iran? Granted, our interests don't exactly align, but they are our best hope to stunt ISIS' growth and to reduce the absurd power that Saudi Arabia has in the region. Also, with our decreasing dependency on oil due to plummeting prices, a gradual switch to clean energy could help us view the region realistically, and assess the situation more carefully. Of course, all of this sounds easier in my head.
5
Obscene gobs of our money pay for this Middle Eastern mess. We are fully complicit in its creation, as much as or more than the principal players in the crucible.
No presidential candidate can win an election by proposing to walk away, cutting aid to Israel, Saudi Arabia, Egypt and other countries in the region. Russia will continue to ply its murderously malign influence because it is ruled by a thug and that is what Russia does.
As Mr. Friedman suggests, we had better get used to this mutating circus. Implacabke hostility reinforced by dull imaginations dictate that matters will worsen before they improve, and no US president will be able to do anything about it.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
No presidential candidate can win an election by proposing to walk away, cutting aid to Israel, Saudi Arabia, Egypt and other countries in the region. Russia will continue to ply its murderously malign influence because it is ruled by a thug and that is what Russia does.
As Mr. Friedman suggests, we had better get used to this mutating circus. Implacabke hostility reinforced by dull imaginations dictate that matters will worsen before they improve, and no US president will be able to do anything about it.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
1
The parties to this dispute are hopelessly intransigent. It's time for the UN to IMPOSE a solution upon the parties.
The Middle East dilemma was created in 1948 by the UN when it imperfectly gave a state to Jews, mostly at Palestinian expense, to make recompense for what the Germans did. The UN needs to IMPOSE reasonable borders based upon where people actually live today, (not in 1948, 1967 or 2,000 years ago), and declare a Palestinian state whether the parties like it or not. The UN should enforce these borders with an armed UN force until the parties get used to the idea.
Jews, like the settlers, who find themselves on the Palestinian side of the line can move, or stay and become citizens of the State of Palestine and enjoy all of the rights and privileges accorded to all of the citizens of the State of Palestine, the Palestinian charter banning Jews aside. Israel has Arabs, Palestine can have Jews. It's the same thing.
You know what you get when you take peoples' property for no money and relegate them to refugee status? 68 years of war, not that Jews living under siege for 68 years have had it that so great.
All people, including Jews, who lost property as a result of the UN's creation of Israel should be compensated as under the legal Doctrine of Eminent Domain. You show up at a UN Middle East Compensation Commission office, present your claim, sign a Release, and walk out with a check. That's fair.
Or they can go back to doing war for another 68 years.
The Middle East dilemma was created in 1948 by the UN when it imperfectly gave a state to Jews, mostly at Palestinian expense, to make recompense for what the Germans did. The UN needs to IMPOSE reasonable borders based upon where people actually live today, (not in 1948, 1967 or 2,000 years ago), and declare a Palestinian state whether the parties like it or not. The UN should enforce these borders with an armed UN force until the parties get used to the idea.
Jews, like the settlers, who find themselves on the Palestinian side of the line can move, or stay and become citizens of the State of Palestine and enjoy all of the rights and privileges accorded to all of the citizens of the State of Palestine, the Palestinian charter banning Jews aside. Israel has Arabs, Palestine can have Jews. It's the same thing.
You know what you get when you take peoples' property for no money and relegate them to refugee status? 68 years of war, not that Jews living under siege for 68 years have had it that so great.
All people, including Jews, who lost property as a result of the UN's creation of Israel should be compensated as under the legal Doctrine of Eminent Domain. You show up at a UN Middle East Compensation Commission office, present your claim, sign a Release, and walk out with a check. That's fair.
Or they can go back to doing war for another 68 years.
3
I appreciate Friedman's column for the realpolitik view of the quagmire that is the Middle East today. It is clear that Israel is going for a one-state policy that will "embrace" Palestine in a way that is not meant to satisfy "your radical chic college professor's Palestine anymore." I did a paper once on Edward Said's tome ORIENTALISM which could fit in that category. I've argued for Palestine forever, but it is pointless as the region is no longer a "fantasy Middle East." Friedman was interviewed by Charlie Rose and when asked for a solution to the ME admitted he could not find one as the bitterness and division and yes, fantasy about the ME go back to the 7th century. Last paragraph says it all.
3
Forget a 2-State Solution. A bifurcated Palestine separated by Israel and divergent philosophies is not likely to be viable.
What they need is a 3-state Solution, Israel, Palestine on the West Bank, plus Gaza as its own state.
What they need is a 3-state Solution, Israel, Palestine on the West Bank, plus Gaza as its own state.
2
Sunni Arabs countries, spearheaded by Saudi Arabia are churning out extremists that kill American and Muslim alike.
1
"This is not your grandfather’s Israel anymore, it’s not your oil company’s Saudi Arabia anymore, it’s not your NATO’s Turkey anymore, it’s not your cabdriver’s Iran anymore and it’s not your radical chic college professor’s Palestine anymore. It’s a wholly different beast now, slouching toward Bethlehem."
Snap, snap, snap
Snap, snap, snap
1
The One State solution has been going on for 50 years. The tiny sliver of land is not enough to contain 2 states, especially when the Palestinians leadership has for generations incited their people to kill Jews via hate speech in religious and educational institutions. It's time for Tom Friedman to stop his wishful thinking about hypothetical reasonable Palestinian leadership. Hamas and the PLO are all from the same gang, they are equally committed to destroying a Jewish state.
8
He stopped, or didn't you notice. Too bad you never started.
"Telling it like it is" is just shorthand for vulgar, racist, fantasies among Republican primary voters these days. But the phrase does mean something. It means cutting through the clutter to get at the essence of something. I'd say Mr. Friedman has done that admirably vis-a-vie the Middle East. Too bad this column isn't required reading among Republican presidential candidates, one of whom could be the most powerful leader in the world in less than a year.
4
Kudos to Mr Friedman for calling Putin on his strategy in Syria! Personally, I think his ONLY reason for bombing civilians there is to, as Mr. Friedman states, create a refugee crisis and so put massive strains on the EU. I am sure Putin would regard the break-up of the EU as fit revenge for the break-up of the Soviet Union.
4
Thanks Tom for the reality check on the ME. It seems hopeless now and perhaps it is for the time being. Maybe in a future generation, a 2 state solution would be viable. When Arafat denied the Clinton brokered peace treaty- he condemned the region to decades of strife- and it has devolved into the mess we have now. Of course, the Israeli Palestinian/Hamas conflict is just one of the many conflicts in the ME- including SA and Iran, Syria, Egypt, ISIS, etc. The whole region is a mess fueled by failed religious theocracies, ruthless dictators and ignorance. That's even before you talk about Iraq and Afghanistan and the US involvement there and the mass migration into Europe that wasn't thought out by Merkel.
It seems anything anyone tries to do in the ME just turns out to make things worse. Yes, there are bright spots here and there- but it seems the spread of radical Islam to Africa, Pakistan outside of the ME makes it seem all the more hopeless for now. Climate change and drought will bring this situation to even greater crises in future.
It seems anything anyone tries to do in the ME just turns out to make things worse. Yes, there are bright spots here and there- but it seems the spread of radical Islam to Africa, Pakistan outside of the ME makes it seem all the more hopeless for now. Climate change and drought will bring this situation to even greater crises in future.
1
finally Mr Friedman is coming around to a realistic view of the ME .,,, Best to leave all these failed and failing states alone to search out their own solutions to their problems . It is impossible to impose a solution on people who barely can see themselves as a part of the problem. They only see others as the creators of the mess they live in........
I agree that the people of the US do not care that much about the middle east. Christian fundamentalists have some apocalyptical fetishes about it, there are oil interests that hopefully will recede as new energy sources become ascendant, there is still the "great game" being played like a Ground Hog's day by the Russians, and political and humanitarian concerns serious people wring their hands about. In the long run it will be the populations that overwhelm every other considerations, if the Arab population of greater Israel becomes the majority someday there are consequences that cannot be ignored.
It's true the ME is very different.
With respect to Israel, what Tom fails to mention is that President Bill Clinton spent the last year of his presidency brokering a peace between the PLO and Israel and it was delivered to Arafat on a silver platter and he turned it down. It was a golden opportunity to put away weapons and anger and build a country but Arafat and Hamas know nothing but war and they feed off it. Perhaps peace would have brought an examination of Arafat and all the Swiss bank accounts he put millions or perhaps billions into for himself. Perhaps the Islamic dream of wiping Israel off the map is what drove him. The sacking of Fayyad is the same dysfunctional decision making. Who do the Israelis negotiate with if the other side of the table is only competent in war, corruption and a dream of wiping them out? It's no surprise that Netanyahu rose to power given this context.
The Sunni and Shiite dysfunction beggars description in its depth and complexity. Outside of Israel there are no functioning democracies in the ME and until the radicals and clerics are kicked to the curb there never will be.
We should keep expectations low but carry a much bigger stick in this region because that is all they respect.
With respect to Israel, what Tom fails to mention is that President Bill Clinton spent the last year of his presidency brokering a peace between the PLO and Israel and it was delivered to Arafat on a silver platter and he turned it down. It was a golden opportunity to put away weapons and anger and build a country but Arafat and Hamas know nothing but war and they feed off it. Perhaps peace would have brought an examination of Arafat and all the Swiss bank accounts he put millions or perhaps billions into for himself. Perhaps the Islamic dream of wiping Israel off the map is what drove him. The sacking of Fayyad is the same dysfunctional decision making. Who do the Israelis negotiate with if the other side of the table is only competent in war, corruption and a dream of wiping them out? It's no surprise that Netanyahu rose to power given this context.
The Sunni and Shiite dysfunction beggars description in its depth and complexity. Outside of Israel there are no functioning democracies in the ME and until the radicals and clerics are kicked to the curb there never will be.
We should keep expectations low but carry a much bigger stick in this region because that is all they respect.
8
The presidential candidates should just shut up about how they will deal with the problems in the middle East, because there is little that the U.S. can do that would be productive. All the jabber they mouth only alienates a lot of voters. When they vie to show who loves Israel best this really only pleases Evangelicals and some, but not all, Jews. Americans do not want to bleed for the Middle East.
1
Actually the Palestinians are ruled by their own corrupt leaders. 3% (according to Human Rights Watch) of the land in the west bank is taken up by settlements, but the Palestinian people are ruled not by the Israelis but by the corrupt Mr. Abbas, currently in year 11 of his 4 year term. The Israeli military has the run of the place, but they keep the terrorists out of Israel, and keep Abbas from succumbing to Iranian financed Hamas. The Palestinians could have complete control, but that would require them to make peace, so they aren't interested.
The wild card here is climate change. Iran is running out of ground water, the NYTimes did an excellent piece on the crisis. The rest of the neighborhood isn't far behind. Except, of course for Israel which has dealt with the crisis by recycling water, drip irrigation and investing in desalinization. Perhaps the thirsty Arabs, currently ruling over 99% of the land in middle east, will give up their obsession with destroying Israel and ask for help. Probably not.
The wild card here is climate change. Iran is running out of ground water, the NYTimes did an excellent piece on the crisis. The rest of the neighborhood isn't far behind. Except, of course for Israel which has dealt with the crisis by recycling water, drip irrigation and investing in desalinization. Perhaps the thirsty Arabs, currently ruling over 99% of the land in middle east, will give up their obsession with destroying Israel and ask for help. Probably not.
12
We were sick of catering to caterwauling Cuba-phobes and now we are tired of ingratiating Israeli-files. Let them fight it out among themselves and let us develop a muscular self-restraint by never, ever trying to stop them from running or ruining their own countries.
2
Still no admission from the cheerleader on the part played by the Iraq invasion of midwifing ISIS.
So if the Middle East is irredeemable, as this column posits, we should stay the heck out, and stop shipping wads of cash to Israel, Pakistan, and all the rest, right? And stop selling arms to the Saudis, and those feckless Sunni states, right?
So if the Middle East is irredeemable, as this column posits, we should stay the heck out, and stop shipping wads of cash to Israel, Pakistan, and all the rest, right? And stop selling arms to the Saudis, and those feckless Sunni states, right?
4
If the current Israeli Government does not care what we think, then we must make them care.
Action Plan for the USA:
1. Israel Out of the West Bank
2. If not out of the West Bank, Americans must start to boycott all Israeli goods.
Let see if they care what we think after that.
Action Plan for the USA:
1. Israel Out of the West Bank
2. If not out of the West Bank, Americans must start to boycott all Israeli goods.
Let see if they care what we think after that.
1
So Friedman picks the choice statement of Avigdor, no relative to me. His view is NOT representative of most Israelis, let alone even the current government. You know that very well, but Israeli busters look to find reasons in the most obscure places. And never a word of criticism against Palestinians and their terrorism. They harvest what they practice.
5
The one-state solution was decided by Arafat when he rejected the most generous territorial offer Israel ever made for a Palestinian state. That was under Bill Clinton when Ehud Barak was Israeli prime minister. Since then, Palestinians, their Islamic allies and their terrorist proxies, Hamas and Hezbollah, have sought their own one-state solution -- which happens to be the same one they unsuccessfully fought for in the Israeli War of Independence in 1948 and in periodic wars since then. Despite having more freedom today than they'd ever have in a Palestinian state, many Israeli Arabs have now climbed aboard the one-state train-wreck aimed at eliminating Israel as a Jewish state.
So there's not really a choice for Netanyahu to make.
So there's not really a choice for Netanyahu to make.
6
No worries, it was like that at least last 5-6 thousand years.
Practically nothing changed since Nebuchadnezzar.
Middle east is somehow a territory you cannot own, you can rent , you can rent may be couple millennia but you cannot own.
It is a nice place to show human natures worst sides.
Practically nothing changed since Nebuchadnezzar.
Middle east is somehow a territory you cannot own, you can rent , you can rent may be couple millennia but you cannot own.
It is a nice place to show human natures worst sides.
1
Not news, and the American Jewish Old Guard will cluck and write in, while the rest of us simply continue to think of Israel as a rogue state, and not one worth any exceptional consideration. Except, of course for the fact that their government has atomic weapons and some biblical endorsement for their use. It is not important that their public has many rational, and indeed secular members; same was true of many countries inflamed and distorted by horrific regimes, from Germany to North Korea.
Sure, the West created the permanent problems all over the Mideast, and by self-serving policies, we can be blamed to this day. Israel is only one aspect. We've directly caused the death of close to a million innocents, abetted 'democratic' insurrections that didn't turn out the way we planned, and even fertilized the ground for ISIS.
If Israel's government is hell-bent on defying the world (definition: rogue), and playing out the game we set up for them, perhaps it's time to let it play out. The only other definitive option we have is to take the place over and sit on it; not, like our invading Iraq and Afghanistan, something that we could sell to our citizens.
Sure, the West created the permanent problems all over the Mideast, and by self-serving policies, we can be blamed to this day. Israel is only one aspect. We've directly caused the death of close to a million innocents, abetted 'democratic' insurrections that didn't turn out the way we planned, and even fertilized the ground for ISIS.
If Israel's government is hell-bent on defying the world (definition: rogue), and playing out the game we set up for them, perhaps it's time to let it play out. The only other definitive option we have is to take the place over and sit on it; not, like our invading Iraq and Afghanistan, something that we could sell to our citizens.
2
thank god for israeli intransigence on the peace process. the shiite-sunni civil war has exposed the rift in the Arab world. why should israel ever take a chance with this civilization? it was a no-win proposition
9
Know what, Mr. Friedman? The Palestinian leadership LOVES the idea of Israel forging a de facto one state, because it 1. takes away the headache of dealing with a difficult people, difficult because 66+ years of Palestinian "resistance" have created a monster nobody can tame, not even the PLO 2. it creates some much negative feedback in the western world against the Jews.
Come to think about it, it's not the few extremist settlers, or Netanyahu, that wants the Jewish one state. Both Mom and Pop are Hamas and the PA.
Uh, is this your bedtime fairytale? And by the way, no Palestinian government could ever deal with living on the border of an ISIS caliphate. Yet another reason for them to barricade behind IMPOSSIBLE demands and let the Jews sweat it out.
Come to think about it, it's not the few extremist settlers, or Netanyahu, that wants the Jewish one state. Both Mom and Pop are Hamas and the PA.
Uh, is this your bedtime fairytale? And by the way, no Palestinian government could ever deal with living on the border of an ISIS caliphate. Yet another reason for them to barricade behind IMPOSSIBLE demands and let the Jews sweat it out.
6
I usually agree with T. Friedman but in this case I do not. A two state solution is not dead as it is the only solution for Israeli security. Israel's current policies appear written by the Israeli equivalent of Donald Trump, write laws to exclude Palestinians, build a wall, build settlements to force them out, and remain in perpetual war. Israel is increasingly isolated, has no natural resources and lives or dies with the support of other nations.
Apparently Israeli leadership including Avigdor Lieberman continue to dismiss the importance of US support. Perhaps, Israeli recalcitrance would change if the US ceased its financial underwriting of Israel and withdrew its political support.
Apparently Israeli leadership including Avigdor Lieberman continue to dismiss the importance of US support. Perhaps, Israeli recalcitrance would change if the US ceased its financial underwriting of Israel and withdrew its political support.
86
I suggest we give your theory a try: Cut off all aid to Israel, political, military and economic. Furthermore, we can impose sanctions as we would on any other country that behaves as Israel does. They have dug their own grave; it's time someone covered it over.
1
Sorry, forgot to mention, in my previous comment (if published) my congratulations to you, Mr. Friedman, for the courage to tell the real truth and facts about Israel......not easy to do in this country, without being exposed to the Hate Crime commission.....but, it is ok if a series of hate comments go against Obama....
6
I see no positive change to the endless quagmire that is Middle East crisis until all the players who have made it the inhospitable, intolerant, and soulless place that it now is, are deposed or killed, and more moderate leaders take their place. The top Machiavellian jingoist leaders, security agencies, and billionaire plutocrats who have contributed to this crisis are from: Israel, Saudi Arabia, the United States, Iran, Pakistan, Syria, and Russia.
3
It is convenient to blame West Bank settlement and Netanyahu for the failled two-state process. But let's face it: Palestinians have been waging a war against Israel ever since 1948. At least Israel has developed a thriving Palestinian Arab constituency (over 25% of all Israelis). What have the other Arab states done in accepting and assimilating Palestinians? Absolutely nothing.
The biggest Mideast cancer is Syria, not Israel/Palestine. It's a shame that Obama was feckless in responding to a true human catastrophe, ignoring his own Red Line, and allowing Russia and ISIS to muscle in and control the agenda. We see clearly now what happens when a US President intentionally abdicates leadership - bad actors fill the void and take advantage of American weakness. Obama has left his successor a "rancid" sandwich.
The biggest Mideast cancer is Syria, not Israel/Palestine. It's a shame that Obama was feckless in responding to a true human catastrophe, ignoring his own Red Line, and allowing Russia and ISIS to muscle in and control the agenda. We see clearly now what happens when a US President intentionally abdicates leadership - bad actors fill the void and take advantage of American weakness. Obama has left his successor a "rancid" sandwich.
7
With the prospects of our Choice for the next President of our Land....Someone should Know enough to Care and Care enough to Know. We seem to have a massive number of citizens who are illiterate enough to elect a person who is "Winning" (his Word) with sound bites and absolute Vaccuous spittle. Donald Trump is the present perfect leader in the parade of the self-righteous, self- inflated pieces of pomposity.... Intending to Lead our Country. Maybe we will have the perfect metaphorical Presidential presence. At the very least we may have the next 11 Months Dominated with his Mouth! I hope Someone "Cares".
4
I see the plausibility of the concept of one state solution for Isreal - there is a historic precedence of this strategy, America. Over time Isreal will destroy the violent Palestians and force them to accept the Isreali constitution and live perpetually as second lass citizen like Native Americans. It is now question of time and for this strategy, Isreal 'do not care' about the American empty talks of morality and fairness and practice what America did.
Regarding Iran as rouge state I do have different view - I am seeing change is coming to the Iranian state, though it is coming very slowly. Overtime Iranian moderates will get the control on state policy and the state will use its soft power to influence the region. Iran will change from rouge state a modern state - very different from Saudi Arabia.
Regarding Iran as rouge state I do have different view - I am seeing change is coming to the Iranian state, though it is coming very slowly. Overtime Iranian moderates will get the control on state policy and the state will use its soft power to influence the region. Iran will change from rouge state a modern state - very different from Saudi Arabia.
2
And now, the anti- Tom Friedman, equally as logical, but never even considered......
"How did we get there? So many people stuck knives into the peace process it’s hard to know who delivered the mortal blow. Was it the fanatical Palestinian lone wolves determined to keep killing and maiming innocent women and children, and their Fatah Leaders having not one voice of reason to oppose them? Was it left-wing Jewish billionaires, like George Soros, who used their influence to further degrade any possible dialogue with the Israeli right?"
Two sides to every news story. Except for Israel and Tom Friedman.
"How did we get there? So many people stuck knives into the peace process it’s hard to know who delivered the mortal blow. Was it the fanatical Palestinian lone wolves determined to keep killing and maiming innocent women and children, and their Fatah Leaders having not one voice of reason to oppose them? Was it left-wing Jewish billionaires, like George Soros, who used their influence to further degrade any possible dialogue with the Israeli right?"
Two sides to every news story. Except for Israel and Tom Friedman.
8
How did we get here? In Israel's case by supplying this ultra right wing country with advanced weapons and billions of dollars every year, year in, year out. And by standing by them in the United Nations where we use our veto to spare the Israelis any embarrassment for their illegal behavior, land grabs and war crimes. And then Bibi comes to our country and insults the president. Enough. Time to end all aid, both military and economic. Let them stew in the apartheid making of their own. I don't want my tax dollars supporting this pariah nation.
21
Land grabs? Israel controls Area C, which is 60% of the West bank, but only a tiny percentage of that contain Jewish settlements. Ever ask about Palestinian encroachment in Jewish neighborhoods of eastern Jerusalem? Neve Yaakov, French Hill, to name a few.
3
Why is there not a nation or group of them able and willing to take the murderous grotesquery of Bashar al- Assad , President
of Syria, out of power?
of Syria, out of power?
1
This is Tom's best piece yet ! and I have not always been a fan.
Sad but very very true.
Sad but very very true.
1
As soon as I hit the words 'Sunni Arab allies' I knew I could stop reading right there.
3
Slouching towards Bethlehem? Slouching towards Bedlam.
4
I can never understand why Iran is perceived as a 'rogue state.' It's not as if the Sunnis want to live in peace and the Shite are the aggressors; really quite the opposite. And the Saudis have certainly not done their part to curb radical Islamists; again, quite the opposite. Yet we continue to read in the news and hear on television that Saudi is our trusted ally and Iran is the perpetrator of terror. How many Iranians were on those 9/11 flights?
18
The Israeli-Palestinian issue is a side-show compared to the rest of the Mideast. to the millions of Syrian refugees, the almost unprecedented brutality of ISIS, the stress all this has on Lebanon, Jordan, Libya (which is now in chaos). None of this is fixable by the U.S. I believe we have made things infinitely worse by our Iranian deal, giving Iran, a terror-sponsoring state almost $100 billion of play money. It is an error far worse than Chamberlain made in Munich. So now the Saudis (and other Sunni states) are going to up the ante and the violence will increase as will instability.
And in the midst of all this horror, rampant beheadings and whippings in Saudi Arabia, hanging in Iran (often of gay people), the unimaginable brutality of ISIS, the sea of people fleeing these horrors, who does the West focus on? Israel, the only place in the area where there is stability; where everyone gets medical treatment, where gay people are free to live in peace (despite being hated by the Ultra Orthodox); where there are real elections. Where the government and people don't produce videos urging Jews to slaughter Arabs (unlike the PA and of course Hamas);where unlike in Egypt, the police do not torture (as mentioned in the Times today) with impunity.
I'd say, forget about Israel. Whatever goes on there is nothing compared to any of the surrounding "countries" (assuming they really exist as countries).
And in the midst of all this horror, rampant beheadings and whippings in Saudi Arabia, hanging in Iran (often of gay people), the unimaginable brutality of ISIS, the sea of people fleeing these horrors, who does the West focus on? Israel, the only place in the area where there is stability; where everyone gets medical treatment, where gay people are free to live in peace (despite being hated by the Ultra Orthodox); where there are real elections. Where the government and people don't produce videos urging Jews to slaughter Arabs (unlike the PA and of course Hamas);where unlike in Egypt, the police do not torture (as mentioned in the Times today) with impunity.
I'd say, forget about Israel. Whatever goes on there is nothing compared to any of the surrounding "countries" (assuming they really exist as countries).
8
Our relations with all Middle Eastern countries, friend and foe alike, need to be re-evaluated with respect to our national interests. Its insane to be buddies with the Saudis while they spend unfathomable amounts on madrasas that preach against the West. Its equally insane to banish Iran as a rogue nation when they are beginning to cooperate on the international scene. Israel sure likes our military aid, but spits in our face when we turn our backs.
We should have friendly relations with countries that share national interests, though not necessarily in mirror-image, and should pare down or shut down relations with countries that do not share national interests.
Some reevaluation is badly needed and sorely overdue.
We should have friendly relations with countries that share national interests, though not necessarily in mirror-image, and should pare down or shut down relations with countries that do not share national interests.
Some reevaluation is badly needed and sorely overdue.
20
The West needs to stop bombing ISIS and recognize that it exists for a reason: It is the place of refuge of Sunnis driven out by a Shia government in Iran that persecutes them . Either confront the Shia government in Iraq, or implement the Biden plan, tri-partianing Iraq into a Sunni, Kurdish and Shia State.
The Russian Press openly discusses that Putin is generating refugees streaming into Europe to weaken Ms. Merkel who he sees as the main obstacle to swallow the Eastern Part of the Ukraine.
Israel has the most powerful Air force, Army and Navy in the Mideast and is the sole Atomic Weapon State in the region. So it's not about security.
The two state solution was dead when the systematic colonization of West Bank began in 1970, driven by religious fanatics and land grabbing developers. This combination could not be stopped internally, as it combined religion and money, nor externally, as the US never had the guts to pull its military or economic aid, the only means left to save Israel from becoming a non-democratic state permanently suppressing the original inhabitants of the region.
The Russian Press openly discusses that Putin is generating refugees streaming into Europe to weaken Ms. Merkel who he sees as the main obstacle to swallow the Eastern Part of the Ukraine.
Israel has the most powerful Air force, Army and Navy in the Mideast and is the sole Atomic Weapon State in the region. So it's not about security.
The two state solution was dead when the systematic colonization of West Bank began in 1970, driven by religious fanatics and land grabbing developers. This combination could not be stopped internally, as it combined religion and money, nor externally, as the US never had the guts to pull its military or economic aid, the only means left to save Israel from becoming a non-democratic state permanently suppressing the original inhabitants of the region.
5
What about Obama's role in this mess? Alienated the Saudis, allowed Gadafi to fall and bring chaos, backed out of Iraq which allowed isis (my spelling) to thrive, not back up his "red line" and lose face along with opening the door to Putin's involvement in Syria, and screwed up in Egypt, too. Yes - he should be mentioned along with the other knuckleheads that have toasted the Mideast.
2
You forgot to mention GWB, the Cheneys Rumsfeld and the neocons etc for the Ignorant War of choice by the Republicans which started the Domino effect.
You do have other inaccuracies in your rant also.
You do have other inaccuracies in your rant also.
2
I am not certain why your, unfortunately accurate, article would require a quote from the unsavory Avigdor Lieberman. His viewpoints are disregarded by a majority of Israelis and American Jewry. While it is a stretch to see light at the end of that proverbial tunnel, there is a vibrant and growing movement within Israel to offer a political alternative to a government that has not moved the peace process forward.
6
TF needs a new narrative. The Palestinians aren't a Arab Muslim minority. They are a part of a religion of radical militant Islamists not interested in a peaceful solution with Israel. Plain and simple so stop offering your nonsense solutions of having Israel offer one sided solutions unless you want Israel to commit suicide.
The Middle East consists of rouge militant Islamic players whose political aspiration aren't based on democratic values. There is no difference between these Islamic groups other the name of there Muslim tribes. We can't solve this problem militarily but we do need to stop the delusional rhetoric by offering solutions and one sided rhetoric.
What we can do is expose the radical Jihadi militancy of Islam and support our only ally Israel ability to defend itself. Peace in the region will only come when the Islamic religion changes it's narrative and is able to tolerate those that don't subscribe to it's ideology. Until then expect more violence from the Islamic world and be prepared.
The Middle East consists of rouge militant Islamic players whose political aspiration aren't based on democratic values. There is no difference between these Islamic groups other the name of there Muslim tribes. We can't solve this problem militarily but we do need to stop the delusional rhetoric by offering solutions and one sided rhetoric.
What we can do is expose the radical Jihadi militancy of Islam and support our only ally Israel ability to defend itself. Peace in the region will only come when the Islamic religion changes it's narrative and is able to tolerate those that don't subscribe to it's ideology. Until then expect more violence from the Islamic world and be prepared.
7
You forget the Palestinian leadership that twice rejected maximalist two state peace offers and the Palestinian schools where children are taught to chant "One state from the river to the ocean".
3
Tom you said some sensible things but the idea of a Singapore in Gaza is certainly ludicrous. And why is Iran a rogue state? Are only Sunni monarchies allowed to make alliances?
4
What is certain is that the next president couldn't do any worse conducting US foreign policy in the ME than the current occupant. What is certain is that powerful nations in leadership positions should support their allies and promote the best interests of those countries with which they have an aligned vision.
Putin sees Russia's interests and Syria's interests as convergent and thus has created the Russian/Syrian/Iranian axis. Russia will sell SU-30 jets and S300 anti missile systems to Iran creating a win/win/win situation and maintain its naval presence in the Med. Putin implements a winning strategy which is, as he sees it in the best interests of his country.
Obama's ME strategy is "don't do stupid stuff", "lead from behind"in destabilizing Libya,not honoring his own red lines and making vapid declarations by succumbing to crowd mentality in "Mubarak Must Go" and vainly "Assad must go".
Jews in Israel like Jews in US are not a monolithic group. The common faith shared is divided into as many subsets as are Protestant groups. The difference is that American Jews don't live in Israel where every day vehement hatred and desire to murder are directed towards the population.
Attitudes among US Jews may change, especially from those on the Left. Regardless, it will have no impact on the average Israeli who worries about their kids in the army, their families well being and future and how to enjoy life in an area where the culture of death and martyrdom is celebrated.
Putin sees Russia's interests and Syria's interests as convergent and thus has created the Russian/Syrian/Iranian axis. Russia will sell SU-30 jets and S300 anti missile systems to Iran creating a win/win/win situation and maintain its naval presence in the Med. Putin implements a winning strategy which is, as he sees it in the best interests of his country.
Obama's ME strategy is "don't do stupid stuff", "lead from behind"in destabilizing Libya,not honoring his own red lines and making vapid declarations by succumbing to crowd mentality in "Mubarak Must Go" and vainly "Assad must go".
Jews in Israel like Jews in US are not a monolithic group. The common faith shared is divided into as many subsets as are Protestant groups. The difference is that American Jews don't live in Israel where every day vehement hatred and desire to murder are directed towards the population.
Attitudes among US Jews may change, especially from those on the Left. Regardless, it will have no impact on the average Israeli who worries about their kids in the army, their families well being and future and how to enjoy life in an area where the culture of death and martyrdom is celebrated.
2
Thank you for mentioning Avigdor Liebman, but you left something out that goes a long way to explaining Putins actions in the Crimea and particularly in the Ukraine. After the U.S. backed coup of the duly elected President of The Ukraine Poroshenko did meet with foreign dignitaries as reported in The Times, actually make that one foreign dignatary and that was Liebman as reported by Harratz. Poroshenko was in Israel seeking approval to become the appointed,not elected, President representing not the people of Ukraine but a handful of Jewish oligarchs who are now currently fighting over how to divide up what they haven't already got of Ukraines resources and industry. I think our President would be just as worried if this crew were doing the same in Mexico with an eye on destabilizing the region in the right wing Israeli quest for expansion and domination as even you have finally acknowledged. Thanks for the peek behind the curtain Tom but to put rock throwing Palestinians in the same league as these guys who are have funded their own armies (Kolomoisky) and an Israel with a huge nuclear Arsenal is disingenuous at best.
8
Much as I hate to envision the consequences, I have to accept Friedman's point that the Likud government, which represents the mindset of at least half and probably more of the Israeli Jewish population, has only a one-state solution in mind. The eventual Israeli acquisition of the West Bank will mean that the two million plus Palestinians living there will be ethnically cleansed to Jordan in what Likud propagandists, here and in Israel, will portray as a triumph of morality. Naturally, all those Golda quotes proving that Palestinians don't really exist, that they hate their kids etc. will be trotted out to justify an unspeakable population expulsion which, if a similar transfer were orchestrated by any other country than Israel, would normally have American Jews up in arms.
So chapeau to the Likud; for them the short-term future looks rosy. Long-term I'm not so sure. One day the Americans will wake up and start asking "why did we make solemn enemies of all the Muslims worldwide to appease a relatively tiny population of ultranationalists of the Avigdor Lieberman stripe who have nothing but contempt for us anyway".
So chapeau to the Likud; for them the short-term future looks rosy. Long-term I'm not so sure. One day the Americans will wake up and start asking "why did we make solemn enemies of all the Muslims worldwide to appease a relatively tiny population of ultranationalists of the Avigdor Lieberman stripe who have nothing but contempt for us anyway".
10
This is a blunt but probably accurate analysis of the current disaster that is the ME. Too bad that the media seem unable bring this kind of toughness when questioning or moderating the Republican contenders. We know that Donald Trump doesn't have a foreign policy- he only has applause lines. Ditto Cruz. Did the excellent Jeff Goldberg have a follow up when Avigdor Liebman said he didn't give a hoot about what Americs or American Jews think of Israel? (I have always maintained that if Liebman were the foreign minister of, say, Hungary and spoke about Jews the way he does about Arabs, he would be completely ostracized. Anyway, an unusually blunt column from Friedman. I hope this kind if attitude is catching.
7
The Syria non-state is temporary. Assad, Russia & Iran look likely to soon prevail over the anti-Assad forces. They might? then take on ISIS, but it's first things first for Assad. US influence in the region is now over. And, what has the last 75 years of intervention gotten us anyway?
3
It saved Israel via billions in our tax dollars....and a mockery from the real world because our irresponsible Congress did invite Bibi combined with more and more enemies
1
The violence and instability Middle East is driven by (some) Muslims who hold power and money, they care little for the suffering they cause, they "know" their cause is "righteous".
The other arab states don't care about the Israeli / Palestian conflict, people in these countries worries are about their families lives. How much room in their minds is their for the Palestinians who have thrown away a chance at a homeland again and again for 60 years!
The West and its hyper focus on Israel has led almost all Palestinian leaders to believe that violence will get them "their land back". Turning over ANY more land to Palestinian control will leave Israel surroundd on 3 sides by Radical Islamic terror states (Gaza/ Hamas, Lebanon/ Hizbolah, Syria).
If the entire anti Israel movement instead re-focussed its efforts on developing a Palestinain culture that valued human rights, democracy, education & growth instead of Martyrdom and Anti Semitism; well then the pressure on Israel to grant them a state would be valid.
For now, Western influence has led to the destabilizing of Syria, Libya. Radical Islamist's took Gaza its now a Terror state, they are trying to do the same in the West Bank. Israel is on the front lines of the religious wars tearing the region apart!
The other arab states don't care about the Israeli / Palestian conflict, people in these countries worries are about their families lives. How much room in their minds is their for the Palestinians who have thrown away a chance at a homeland again and again for 60 years!
The West and its hyper focus on Israel has led almost all Palestinian leaders to believe that violence will get them "their land back". Turning over ANY more land to Palestinian control will leave Israel surroundd on 3 sides by Radical Islamic terror states (Gaza/ Hamas, Lebanon/ Hizbolah, Syria).
If the entire anti Israel movement instead re-focussed its efforts on developing a Palestinain culture that valued human rights, democracy, education & growth instead of Martyrdom and Anti Semitism; well then the pressure on Israel to grant them a state would be valid.
For now, Western influence has led to the destabilizing of Syria, Libya. Radical Islamist's took Gaza its now a Terror state, they are trying to do the same in the West Bank. Israel is on the front lines of the religious wars tearing the region apart!
4
" Israel is on the front lines..." holding our coat while we do the real fighting . The IDF is only good at killing women and children and bulldozing American peace volunteers.
1
I am happy read in paragraph 12 that you see Putin's motives are just what I remarked in a comment a few days ago. His real goal is to destabilize Europe.
1
If leaders of Israel do not care of what real Americans think, why should be so stupid to continue wasting billions of dollars in Israel and create more enemies. Presidential candidates (but Rand Paul, Trump and Sanders) are still so naïve and ignorant that they want to support Saudi Arabia who is the main financial backer of terrorist groups, including ISIS. How more stupid can you be......oops, forgot...receiving money from the war machine and fake americans, like Adelson.
2
I think the problem is American has no will to be involved in the middle east. The disaster that Bush caused and the total negative outcome has turned off the 50% who know where the middle east is, the other 50% of American is worried about income inequality, gun laws, ACA, discrimination, etc. I also believe most people who are at all interested in Israel would think they are no friend of ours, not a democracy, and as far as Palestine goes a terrorist state. I would ask the next president to remember "Charity Begins at Home"
1
Sheldon Adelson said, "I don't think the Bible says anything about democracy." Think about that when you think about Israel,,,and peace in the Middle East... and any Republican he supports who may become President.
2
The ME in a mess, what a surprise! After decades of American intervention, meddling, greed and proxy wars, the problems have come home to roost.
Israel is forever playing the victim card whilst having the world’s 4th largest army. America in turn has never supported a two state solution by its use of the veto, the endless funding and sales of military hardware. Abbas is nothing more than an Israeli puppet and Hamas an Israeli creation due to the occupation and siege.
Iraq was an unnecessary war which nurtured ISIS after the ensuing chaos. ISIS has run amok in Syria and shows no signs of being stopped as it moves into Afghanistan and Libya, the latter another Western debacle.
The ferment of hatred between the Shia and Sunni has more to do with political and regional hegemony than religion. US history created the hardliners in Iran and armed Saddam in the Iraq/Iran war and America wonders why it's not popular. Iran has every right to be wary of its regional neighbours and I take exception to Mr. Freidmans’s comments.
America and the West say nothing about Saudi Arabia and Israel’s human rights abuses nor their war against the Palestinians and Yemeni’s.
The candidates should take heed and remove themselves from a region where their country has created havoc. The region needs a fair player and to date America has never shown itself to be even handed as its knows nothing about the history or tribal realities while it allows the donors to determine foreign policy.
Israel is forever playing the victim card whilst having the world’s 4th largest army. America in turn has never supported a two state solution by its use of the veto, the endless funding and sales of military hardware. Abbas is nothing more than an Israeli puppet and Hamas an Israeli creation due to the occupation and siege.
Iraq was an unnecessary war which nurtured ISIS after the ensuing chaos. ISIS has run amok in Syria and shows no signs of being stopped as it moves into Afghanistan and Libya, the latter another Western debacle.
The ferment of hatred between the Shia and Sunni has more to do with political and regional hegemony than religion. US history created the hardliners in Iran and armed Saddam in the Iraq/Iran war and America wonders why it's not popular. Iran has every right to be wary of its regional neighbours and I take exception to Mr. Freidmans’s comments.
America and the West say nothing about Saudi Arabia and Israel’s human rights abuses nor their war against the Palestinians and Yemeni’s.
The candidates should take heed and remove themselves from a region where their country has created havoc. The region needs a fair player and to date America has never shown itself to be even handed as its knows nothing about the history or tribal realities while it allows the donors to determine foreign policy.
3
The author has no imagination. As someone with a reputation as a savvy, veteran Middle East commentator, he is totally mainstream. What about the "all-state" solution? A Middle East confederation/federation between Israel, Palestine, and Jordan with Jerusalem as it's capital? This quagmire demands out of box thinking. Sadly Mr Friedman, and most of our "leaders", have not displayed this ability.
1
"Slouching toward Bethlehem"?? How about "slouching toward Armageddon"? Or "slouching to Dabiq"?
Israel is a small country with a young and growing population. Having relatively few natural resources, those demographics and it's land mass tell the tale of it's future. The status quo will become very expensive.
The more disturbing fact is that your different descriptions of the Middle East crisis may all very soon apply to just one state - Israel.
It'll turn into a one-state (apartheid) and then progressively devolve into a rogue-state. And this time, unlike Iran, with quite a few nuclear warheads with which to snub the West.
Good luck with that, America!
It'll turn into a one-state (apartheid) and then progressively devolve into a rogue-state. And this time, unlike Iran, with quite a few nuclear warheads with which to snub the West.
Good luck with that, America!
Tom - You're a fine writer and don't need to try so hard to be cool, clever and young. Phrases like, "here's a news flash" worked a decade ago. You might as well be using the word groovy. Please just let your intelligent observations speak for themselves.
This is a good column by Mr. Friedman. It is as close as any establishment figure in the USA is ever likely to get to understanding the correct questions;
ONE STATE SOLUTION: Inevitable because the status quo is unsustainable. Unsustainable is a phenomenon the world is treating more seriously; the old irresponsibility of Corporate Capitalism is declining.
NO STATE SOLUTION: Russian intervention has shown that President Assad may win the Civil War. The sudden rush to (more) arms by Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Turkey confirms the major change in balance of Power in the Civil War.
NON STATE SOLUTION:: ISIS may be defeated if the ‘West’ chooses to disconnect from Saudi Arabia and join the Russian coalition
ROGUE STATE SOLUTION:: An example of American petulance rather than Iranian activity.
ONE STATE SOLUTION: Inevitable because the status quo is unsustainable. Unsustainable is a phenomenon the world is treating more seriously; the old irresponsibility of Corporate Capitalism is declining.
NO STATE SOLUTION: Russian intervention has shown that President Assad may win the Civil War. The sudden rush to (more) arms by Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Turkey confirms the major change in balance of Power in the Civil War.
NON STATE SOLUTION:: ISIS may be defeated if the ‘West’ chooses to disconnect from Saudi Arabia and join the Russian coalition
ROGUE STATE SOLUTION:: An example of American petulance rather than Iranian activity.
2
Mr. Friedman's remarks will be no more determinative than any other American analyst frustrated with the intractable arena. He is quite knowledgeable about the subject, but no more so than scholars like Israeli Asher Susser (Tel Aviv Univ), author of "Israel, Jordan, and Palestine: The Two-State Imperative," Brandeis Univ. Press, 2012. A two state solution does not have to be one arising from formal treaties: http://www.bicom.org.uk/analysis-article/12248/ . Here is one relevant section from Prof. Susser's remarks:
"...Because in the Israeli mind, the creation of a Palestinian state means that is where the refugee problem should be resolved. The Israelis just don’t get it. Why you should have a Palestinian state as part of a two-state solution and the refugee problem should be resolved in Israeli. There is nobody in Israel who would accept that. Amos Oz will not accept that. Meretz does not accept that. ...
So what we come back to eventually is, I would argue, is only this two-state idea based on a lot of unilateralism from both sides, coordinated unilateralism. This is the great role for the United States. The role of the United States is not to knock the heads together of these two little midgets in Lilliput, which will not work. You cannot coerce the Israelis to do what they do not want to do and you cannot coerce the Palestinians to do what they really do not want to do. But the Americans can coordinate these parallel unilateral tracks. To go between us. ..."
"...Because in the Israeli mind, the creation of a Palestinian state means that is where the refugee problem should be resolved. The Israelis just don’t get it. Why you should have a Palestinian state as part of a two-state solution and the refugee problem should be resolved in Israeli. There is nobody in Israel who would accept that. Amos Oz will not accept that. Meretz does not accept that. ...
So what we come back to eventually is, I would argue, is only this two-state idea based on a lot of unilateralism from both sides, coordinated unilateralism. This is the great role for the United States. The role of the United States is not to knock the heads together of these two little midgets in Lilliput, which will not work. You cannot coerce the Israelis to do what they do not want to do and you cannot coerce the Palestinians to do what they really do not want to do. But the Americans can coordinate these parallel unilateral tracks. To go between us. ..."
Thom, ever hear of the "Three No's"? Israel begged Jordan to take back the West Bank in August of 67. There was an Arab League meeting in September where the offer was rejected.
As to a "Palestinian" State......there is one, in Gaza. How's that working out? Mort Zuckerman spent untold millions to buy the state of the art Agricultural Facilities in Gaza in the hope they could jump start an economy after the Israeli withdrawal. Well, after they destroyed the Synagogues the Gazan Arabs destroyed the Agricultural Facilities.
As to a "Palestinian" State......there is one, in Gaza. How's that working out? Mort Zuckerman spent untold millions to buy the state of the art Agricultural Facilities in Gaza in the hope they could jump start an economy after the Israeli withdrawal. Well, after they destroyed the Synagogues the Gazan Arabs destroyed the Agricultural Facilities.
5
This column could have been written by Marco Rubio. It comes across as angry, flustered and incoherent. College campuses across America have been hijacked by professors from the Middle East and they imported their hatred of the West and Israel with them. The old anti-Semitic hatreds are flaring up again all over Europe. Has Tom Friedman seen the long lines outside Jewish Agency offices throughout France as nervous French Jewry plans their own exodus to Israel? It's really pathetic that Tom Friedman has to throw a hissy fit whenever things in the Middle East don't go according to his pre-arranged script.
5
The first word which comes to mind to describe today’s column by Thomas Friedman is “depressing.”
Although we can quibble about who is primarily to blame for the current situation – my vote is a tie between Benjamin Netanyahu, Sheldon Adelman, the Republican Party and the Saudi Royal Family – assignment of blame may no longer have the relevance. The accuracy of the Friedman analysis seems beyond dispute.
So, where do we go from here? Do we do nothing? Do we retreat into isolationism? Or, do we look to the one thing which has worked sporadically in the past, hoping that it may help again?
I vote for that tried and true solution: money.
Money can take the negative form of entirely eliminating the cash outflow to Israel, imposing additional sanctions on Russia and Iran, trying brand new sanctions on Saudi Arabia in the form of taxing their oil internationally, severely restricting all international movement of their citizenry by requiring that huge bonds be posted. Confiscation of secret bank accounts of Saudi royals supporting ISIS should occur.
Money can take the positive form of subsidizing further our NATO partners, paying for weapons upgrades for countries bordering Russia, and giving even more money to those countries absorbing Syrian refugees. Jordan needs to be paid more for its moderation. Egypt and Turkey need more from us, if they will begin to demonstrate some real cooperation.
We have paid enough in blood and reputation. Let’s try paying even more in money.
Although we can quibble about who is primarily to blame for the current situation – my vote is a tie between Benjamin Netanyahu, Sheldon Adelman, the Republican Party and the Saudi Royal Family – assignment of blame may no longer have the relevance. The accuracy of the Friedman analysis seems beyond dispute.
So, where do we go from here? Do we do nothing? Do we retreat into isolationism? Or, do we look to the one thing which has worked sporadically in the past, hoping that it may help again?
I vote for that tried and true solution: money.
Money can take the negative form of entirely eliminating the cash outflow to Israel, imposing additional sanctions on Russia and Iran, trying brand new sanctions on Saudi Arabia in the form of taxing their oil internationally, severely restricting all international movement of their citizenry by requiring that huge bonds be posted. Confiscation of secret bank accounts of Saudi royals supporting ISIS should occur.
Money can take the positive form of subsidizing further our NATO partners, paying for weapons upgrades for countries bordering Russia, and giving even more money to those countries absorbing Syrian refugees. Jordan needs to be paid more for its moderation. Egypt and Turkey need more from us, if they will begin to demonstrate some real cooperation.
We have paid enough in blood and reputation. Let’s try paying even more in money.
The fact is, the Middle East today is a dangerous neighborhood because of outside interference, meddling and instigation for regime change, backed by the most undemocratic, fundamentalist regimes in the area...Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States. None of them embrace anything close to democracy and are based on religious concepts that fuel jihadism. Mr. Friedman should know that the Sunni states will never defeat ISIS, precisely because they have been fueling jihadist rebel groups opposed to Assad from the get go. Let's be clear...their goal is not to defeat ISIS, that's the goal of Assad, Russia and Iran and has been from the start.
1
The inability of Friedman and the Left to comprehend that the arab-Israeli conflict has always been religion-based means they will never get it right. Islam cannot accept a non-muslim entity, especially a Jewish one, reclaiming their historic homeland in the Dar al Islam. Add in 50+ years of embarassing military defeats at the hands of the despised Jews and the very core of Islamic theology, which has always portrayed Jews as cowardly sub-humans, is shaken to its core.
It's never been about 'land'. It's always been about Jews being able to exist in their homeland, not as dhimmis, but as sovereign rulers.
It's never been about 'land'. It's always been about Jews being able to exist in their homeland, not as dhimmis, but as sovereign rulers.
129
Friedman paints a portrait of an Israel that progressively abandons democracy in pursuit of biblically-sanctioned imperial ambitions. The Knesset has been active in recent years enacting, or at least considering, measures designed to discourage opposition to these ambitions on the part of Israeli peace advocates. Palestinian missteps and violence enable the Netanyahu administration to conceal its goals behind a public policy of simply protecting Israeli security.
Lieberman's contempt for American opposition to Israeli imperialism should not surprise anyone. What cost has the Netanyahu government paid for disregarding our criticisms? Congress invites Bibi to speak and continues to shovel aid to Israel, while at the same time trying to ignore domestic needs. When someone kicks you in the teeth, and you respond by praising their vigor, you should prepare yourself for further insults.
America will survive this humiliation, but what of Israel? It possesses the economic and military power to survive any confrontation with its neighbors, but can it do so without evolving into a garrison state, in which dissent leads to imprisonment? Will it continue to serve as a beacon, attracting Jewish immigrants from Europe and America, people who value democracy as well as their religion? In fact, will those Israelis who find the corruption of their homeland intolerable consider abandoning it for America or Europe?
The future does not look bright for this once promising land.
Lieberman's contempt for American opposition to Israeli imperialism should not surprise anyone. What cost has the Netanyahu government paid for disregarding our criticisms? Congress invites Bibi to speak and continues to shovel aid to Israel, while at the same time trying to ignore domestic needs. When someone kicks you in the teeth, and you respond by praising their vigor, you should prepare yourself for further insults.
America will survive this humiliation, but what of Israel? It possesses the economic and military power to survive any confrontation with its neighbors, but can it do so without evolving into a garrison state, in which dissent leads to imprisonment? Will it continue to serve as a beacon, attracting Jewish immigrants from Europe and America, people who value democracy as well as their religion? In fact, will those Israelis who find the corruption of their homeland intolerable consider abandoning it for America or Europe?
The future does not look bright for this once promising land.
187
What you ignore is that beyond Congress having invited Netanyahu to speak, a majority of Americans supported the invitation. That is to say, a majority of Americans do not agree with you that Israel kicked America in the teeth. To the contrary, a majority of Americans feel that the combination of Obama-Clinton-Kerry have not been good enough friends to Israel.
One place the obnoxiousness towards Israel can be seen, is in the pages of the New York Times. Rouhani recently held an Islamic unity conference attended by 300 Muslim leaders from different countries. Their main conclusion was that Muslims must unite to destroy Israel. The Times did not report on that conference. On short order though, the Times Roger Cohen praised Rouhani's diplomatic style, and then attacked Netanyahu. Again, the majority of Americans do not agree with these tactics.
One place the obnoxiousness towards Israel can be seen, is in the pages of the New York Times. Rouhani recently held an Islamic unity conference attended by 300 Muslim leaders from different countries. Their main conclusion was that Muslims must unite to destroy Israel. The Times did not report on that conference. On short order though, the Times Roger Cohen praised Rouhani's diplomatic style, and then attacked Netanyahu. Again, the majority of Americans do not agree with these tactics.
4
It is hard to recall a time when Israel was 'promising land'. The bomb throwing has been going on since the Western powers decided to put a Jewish state in the middle of Palestine.
Not to argue that Israel has its problems, irrelevant of the Palestinians. A widening gap between rich and poor, with a middle class dissolving into poverty. Blame the monopolies, which also control the government. And a thriving underground/criminal class; scary to know what they do (child pornography, for one). But, Israel is still the only functioning/thriving country. If self protection is a crime, then are you justifying the Palestinian terrorists? Are you seeing the security problem backwards?
1
"The next U.S. president will have to deal with an Israel determined to permanently occupy all the territory between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, including where 2.5 million West Bank Palestinians live.
How did we get there?"
Because a right wing settler named Yigal Amir assicinated PM Yitzhak Rabin. And an unscrupulous man named Netanyahu took full advantage of the moment to make his political career. For a detailed account of where we are where we are, read Dan Ephron's excellent book "Killing a King".
Binyamin Ben-Eliezer, one of Rabin Cabinet members, to Netanyahu after a vile demonstration with posters showing Rabin as Hitler and a near scrape with death himself.
"You better restrain your people, otherwise it will end in murder. They tried to kill me right now. If someone is murdered, the blood will be on your hands".
How did we get there?"
Because a right wing settler named Yigal Amir assicinated PM Yitzhak Rabin. And an unscrupulous man named Netanyahu took full advantage of the moment to make his political career. For a detailed account of where we are where we are, read Dan Ephron's excellent book "Killing a King".
Binyamin Ben-Eliezer, one of Rabin Cabinet members, to Netanyahu after a vile demonstration with posters showing Rabin as Hitler and a near scrape with death himself.
"You better restrain your people, otherwise it will end in murder. They tried to kill me right now. If someone is murdered, the blood will be on your hands".
The zionists got together and SME Friedman have an update for us.
Same old stale zionists spin, which SME Friedman been parroting for 25 years now.
Same old stale zionists spin, which SME Friedman been parroting for 25 years now.
2
What does Friedman's closing phrase "slouching toward Bethlehem" mean exactly?
It's a take on poet WB Yeats Line at the end of his poem "The Second Coming." Well put.
This phrase is the ending of a famous poem ("The Second Coming") by W.B. Yeats. It was widely quoted in the days and weeks after 9/11.
Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in the sands of the desert.
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in the sands of the desert.
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
One Jewish only State was always the goal of Israel. Nothing new here.
3
Iran supports Assad and Hizballah because they need access to the Mediterranean. Access that would be denied by the chaos and/or Saudi-backed Sunni-Islamist regime that would most likely follow the eventual fall of Assad.
Iran supports the Shiia Iraqi government because that's the traditional route for the invasion of Iran since classical antiquity. The last of which happened in 1980, led to 8 years of war and 1 million Iranian dead. Actually, they stay in Iraq for the same reason that Israel wants to keep the West Bank, strategic depth.
Yemen is just a decoy to keep their Saudi rivals busy far and away from where all the action really takes place, a low-cost and high-return gamble.
Iran has strategic goals and pursues them, the ayatollahs are certainly ruthless but they're not stupid. If it's in their interest to negotiate they negotiate, see the nuclear deal. Chess was born in ancient Persia and they still play it better than most.
Iran supports the Shiia Iraqi government because that's the traditional route for the invasion of Iran since classical antiquity. The last of which happened in 1980, led to 8 years of war and 1 million Iranian dead. Actually, they stay in Iraq for the same reason that Israel wants to keep the West Bank, strategic depth.
Yemen is just a decoy to keep their Saudi rivals busy far and away from where all the action really takes place, a low-cost and high-return gamble.
Iran has strategic goals and pursues them, the ayatollahs are certainly ruthless but they're not stupid. If it's in their interest to negotiate they negotiate, see the nuclear deal. Chess was born in ancient Persia and they still play it better than most.
1
In case it's escaped Tom Friedman's notice America has begun the long tedious process of selecting which two gladiators will inevitably face off in this year's presidential election. Obama is on his way out and, quite frankly, he couldn't care less about what happens in the Middle East anymore. Therefore, until after President 45 is sworn in on January 20, 2017, the Middle East will remain at the bottom of the American list of priorities. The only good news is that at least President Trump or President Sanders can find Israel on a map.
2
"I am certain that Russia’s President Vladimir Putin is deliberately bombing anti-regime Syrians to drive them into Europe in hopes of creating a rift in the European Union"
Tom is , I'm afraid , all too right here...
Putin maintains his popularity by characterizing the west as decadent and weak...
Even if he has to help that perception along via this mass immigration tragedy.
Tom is , I'm afraid , all too right here...
Putin maintains his popularity by characterizing the west as decadent and weak...
Even if he has to help that perception along via this mass immigration tragedy.
1
Right at this very moment, with Israel beseiged by Palestinian stabbers and car attackers, there's a standing offer on the table by Mr. Netanyahu for a meeting with Mr. Abbas. This offer has been on the table for a very long time. One can only assume that Mr. Abbas isn't interested in talking.
6
For better or worse, Zionism forces Jewish Israelis to publicly confront a status quo of their own making in Israel and the Occupied Territories, and it is not a pretty site: while Jewish Israelis enjoy relative peace, prosperity, and unwavering American diplomatic, economic and military support, Palestinians are kept stateless in their own lands, quarantined under a state of martial law, and kept out of sight and out of mind.
In most American and Israeli media analyses, there is almost total disregard for Palestinian motives, aside from attributing all acts of physical resistance as acts of ‘terror.’ Of course, the reality "on the ground" is rarely close to Israel’s self-centered version of events.
Because Palestinians belong to the wrong ethnicity and religion, Jewish Israelis have forced the indigenous Palestinian population to endure occupation, oppression, impoverishment, and frequent, often lethal, violence at the hands of the Israeli military and the Israeli settlers that illegally occupy them.
It's that simple.
In most American and Israeli media analyses, there is almost total disregard for Palestinian motives, aside from attributing all acts of physical resistance as acts of ‘terror.’ Of course, the reality "on the ground" is rarely close to Israel’s self-centered version of events.
Because Palestinians belong to the wrong ethnicity and religion, Jewish Israelis have forced the indigenous Palestinian population to endure occupation, oppression, impoverishment, and frequent, often lethal, violence at the hands of the Israeli military and the Israeli settlers that illegally occupy them.
It's that simple.
2
The occupation is the result of Jordan's attack against Israel.
Israel has been willing to end the occupation in return for a peace treaty. I think that that's a reasonable request.
The Palestinians could have said yes to the Clinton Parameters.
The Palestinians could have said yes to Olmert's offer.
2,000 Israelis were killed or wounded by rockets when Israel pulled out of Gaza without a peace treaty. If Israel were to end the occupation of the West Bank without a peace treaty, thousands more Israelis will be killed or injured.
Israel has been willing to end the occupation in return for a peace treaty. I think that that's a reasonable request.
The Palestinians could have said yes to the Clinton Parameters.
The Palestinians could have said yes to Olmert's offer.
2,000 Israelis were killed or wounded by rockets when Israel pulled out of Gaza without a peace treaty. If Israel were to end the occupation of the West Bank without a peace treaty, thousands more Israelis will be killed or injured.
2
It is hardly that simple. Both sides practice violence.
Yes, the two-State solution is dead. It was offered in 1947. While the Israelis danced in acceptance, the Arabs declared war, refusing to accept a Jewish State within the boundaries of Mandatory Palestine. And this, in spite of the fact that the Arabs of the region were offered for the first time in History the chance to govern their own State. It was also possible after the 1967 war, when Israel captured the territory from the Hashemite Kingdom in Jordan that had been designated for the new Arab State. But the Arabs refused all negotiation with the Jewish State. Mr. Freidman is wrong to begin with blaming of Israel and Jews immigrating to areas captured following the 1967 war for the demise of the two-State solution. He refuses to recognize that even if none of the 700,000 Jews now living areas captured from Jordan after 1967 were there, there still would be no new Arab State. The fault is and has always been (1) the Arab refusal to accept Jewish sovereignty in the Middle East and (2) Jordan’s refusal to support the creation of a new Arab State founded on Arab nationalist ideas that would threaten Hashemite power. Now with the heightened level of disorder and terror throughout the Middle East and Europe, the need for States to maintain control over territory they control is critical. The time is right for Israel to complete its 1967 victory based both on the Old Testament and international law. The time is right to make Judea and Samaria part of the State of Israel.
7
As always you are thought provoking, objective and honest in your assessment. What a mess! . Like you , I assess blame on all parties but I have to think had a more courageous and less chest thumping bellowing politician been Prime Minister of Israel better results would have occurred. Or, simply it would have been easier for America to defend its support of Israel. Make no mistake, I do not fantasize that Abbas or Hamas would have taken any gesture from Bibi such as an immediate freeze on all settlement building and expansion to sit at the table and hash out peace. But it could have ceded the high road to Israel and by default the USA as its supporter but as Lieberman pointed , Israel does not care what America thinks or the position it places us in. Strange though that Bibi and be extension Lieberman still demand military and technological support and get it. A true conundrum that no doubt will lead to a complete rupture between most moderate Americans, Jews and non Jews and support for Israel. Big problem for Israel and big problem for the GOP!
So Hamas digs tunnels and murders. Abbas is no better. But somehow Sheldon Adelson and Jews in trailers get three paragraphs of blame. Israel is refusing to budge precisely because of the behavior of the Palestinian leadership and their murderous hoards of brainwashed stabbing zombies. The problem here is that if nobody is willing to recognized the evil that has taken over the brains of an entire generation of Palestinians, Israel really has no choice but to stop caring what America thinks. All the Jew hating college campus "do gooders" marching for equality for Palestinians when they canmot even tell you what the Balfour declaration is, or what the borders of historic Palestine actually are...are of no concern of the Israelis when they have a country of Charles Manson's and Jeffrey Dahmers just waiting to slice and eat them for dinner. There is plenty of badness in Israel's decision tree, but the root of the issues are still eminating from the murderous arab world that cannot accept a Jewish state anywhere in the middle east.
7
The greatest irony is that the Israeli settlers are in fact accomplishing the exact opposite of their goal - they are condemning Israel into becoming nothing more than another tribal, violent, anti-Western Semitic tribe in the region. Europe, and increasingly the US, already views Israel this way. Shame on the intellectuals in Israel who understand this for not taking action as the settler movement morphs Israel into the opposite of what it aspires to be.
Your writing style is brilliant; sharp; frank and to the point. thank you for nice article.
Let me just start out I’m jealous of Friedman’s ability to write, for example “That is, a one-state solution in Israel, a no-state solution in Syria, Yemen and Libya, a non-state solution offered by the Islamic caliphate and a rogue-state solution offered by Iran.”
I mean it just has a certain ring to it, but is it insightful? Does it actually describe today’s Middle East? Ever since Friedman threw his support behind our invasion of Iraq I have a hard time reading Friedman with anything but extreme skepticism.
The Middle East is in turmoil, it is not like any other time in recent history. Israel is at the center of that turmoil, they can either play a constructive role, i.e. find some way to if not end the occupation at least make some marginal improvement in the lives of the Palestinians on the West Bank who aren’t advocating the destruction of Israel. But unfortunately even that is too much to ask a Likud government.
The United States has always been that shot heard round the world, the leader of the free world, the honest broker to disputes. We need to get that back, and like it or not, Israel is one place where it needs to start.
I mean it just has a certain ring to it, but is it insightful? Does it actually describe today’s Middle East? Ever since Friedman threw his support behind our invasion of Iraq I have a hard time reading Friedman with anything but extreme skepticism.
The Middle East is in turmoil, it is not like any other time in recent history. Israel is at the center of that turmoil, they can either play a constructive role, i.e. find some way to if not end the occupation at least make some marginal improvement in the lives of the Palestinians on the West Bank who aren’t advocating the destruction of Israel. But unfortunately even that is too much to ask a Likud government.
The United States has always been that shot heard round the world, the leader of the free world, the honest broker to disputes. We need to get that back, and like it or not, Israel is one place where it needs to start.
Dear Mr. Friedman,
You seem to miss one "solution", the solution kept in the back closet or like that strange uncle one sees at the holidays but nobody talks about; another shooting war between Israel and all it's "neighbors" that refuse to "recognize" the country that has beaten them in every war they've had.
It seems all "peace processes" are as dead and gone as Neville Chamberlain's "peace in our time", a peace which lasted about one year.
Since this country is busy peddling arms to all of the possible antagonists in this "future war", it would be a lovely time for the arms industry but a very poor time if you happen to live in the area.
What's that you say? What if Israel loses the next war?
Doubtful as EVERYONE knows Israel has the only stockpile of nuclear weapons in the region putting the chances of her losing another conflict squarely in the "hardly possible" range.
So the real question is "When will the next big war start and who will the United States back"?
I think I know who I'd back and if a country like Saudi Arabia hasn't yet figured out that peace with Israel would be a boon to them then Israel would retain my wholehearted backing if war is the only "solution".
You seem to miss one "solution", the solution kept in the back closet or like that strange uncle one sees at the holidays but nobody talks about; another shooting war between Israel and all it's "neighbors" that refuse to "recognize" the country that has beaten them in every war they've had.
It seems all "peace processes" are as dead and gone as Neville Chamberlain's "peace in our time", a peace which lasted about one year.
Since this country is busy peddling arms to all of the possible antagonists in this "future war", it would be a lovely time for the arms industry but a very poor time if you happen to live in the area.
What's that you say? What if Israel loses the next war?
Doubtful as EVERYONE knows Israel has the only stockpile of nuclear weapons in the region putting the chances of her losing another conflict squarely in the "hardly possible" range.
So the real question is "When will the next big war start and who will the United States back"?
I think I know who I'd back and if a country like Saudi Arabia hasn't yet figured out that peace with Israel would be a boon to them then Israel would retain my wholehearted backing if war is the only "solution".
2
The Israeli-Palestinian conflict remains unresolved as long as settlers continue to grab land from Palestinians, whose only advantage is population growth. Neglected by their corrupt politicians, deprived of education and economic opportunities, who blames them for being violent?
Syria, Libya and Yemen are on the brink of dissolution. But Washington refuses to face it and urges all warring parties to reconcile. True, Putin's evil game in Syria aims to create a refugee crisis, to divide EU leaders and to cripple the Union - "a weaker rival to Russia and a weaker ally for America."
It is important to destroy the IS. The Sunni Arabs are reluctant to fight ISIS, as they see Assad a worse enemy. ISIS hates Arab oil sheiks. The Saudis know the threat, but they adopt short-sighted strategies to resolve problems.
Syria, Libya and Yemen are on the brink of dissolution. But Washington refuses to face it and urges all warring parties to reconcile. True, Putin's evil game in Syria aims to create a refugee crisis, to divide EU leaders and to cripple the Union - "a weaker rival to Russia and a weaker ally for America."
It is important to destroy the IS. The Sunni Arabs are reluctant to fight ISIS, as they see Assad a worse enemy. ISIS hates Arab oil sheiks. The Saudis know the threat, but they adopt short-sighted strategies to resolve problems.
4
Indeed, "Iran behaves like a Shiite rogue state." It has a "great civilization" to be proud of. But the hard-liners - the Revolutionary Guards and clerics - "don’t trust their soft power." I doubt if if goes down well with Hassan Rouhani that they "prefer instead to go rogue, to look for dignity in all the wrong places." His main objective is to improve ordinary people's lives and that Iran be a "normal" country, respected by the international community.
3
Tom is alluding to the obvious: the European exploitation of the Ottoman collapse is totally unraveling. The lines drawn on maps for these 'simple' people by their European 'betters' after World War One have less and less meaning. The people in the region have every reason to think that the west promotes civil wars to leave the populace ravaged and ineffective. Be it Iran versus Iraq, Bush versus Iraq or the Syrian melt down, no western power has fostered peaceful productive governance. Our motives have been coated with now depreciating oil assets for too long for us to be trusted. We continue to tacitly support an Israel that Tom finally acknowledges wants everything. Generally speaking, any native leader to emerge is marked for death. Putin delights in disruption to distract from his failed domestic economy.
It is time for us to totally shift focus. 1) stop supporting Israel and demand it stop killing potential leaders 2) stop supporting the Saudi/Wahhabi 3) push Russia out of the conflict 4) commit to aggressive humanitarian aid (with force to break blockades if necessary - Assad lets us in or you are dead). 5) recognize that the UN is largely led by the very countries that have so exploited the Middle East. A major shift must be unilateral.
It is time for us to totally shift focus. 1) stop supporting Israel and demand it stop killing potential leaders 2) stop supporting the Saudi/Wahhabi 3) push Russia out of the conflict 4) commit to aggressive humanitarian aid (with force to break blockades if necessary - Assad lets us in or you are dead). 5) recognize that the UN is largely led by the very countries that have so exploited the Middle East. A major shift must be unilateral.
72
twstroud reminds us of one of the major factors giving birth to the current middle Eastern disaster: The insouciance of those leaders of the western world, their ignorance of or disregard for the history and distribution of the prewar religious and social and cultural structures.
They divided the Ottoman Empire into "states," largely drawing straight lines with little or no consideration of its People or natural resources. And where was there a realization of the distribution of and the intensity of the antipathy between Sunni and Shia? Could there have been a sub rosa motive were the architects of this disaster appreciative of the religious turmoil
Be that as it may, for lack of anything more promising, I agree with twstroud's five proposals were we to unilaterally attempt to cool the region, to pacify it, to advance it. But at what cost and to what end? At what risks considering our internal discords that obstruct the passage of acts by our legislature(s) to enhance and protect our lives and our economy?
Evaluation of the economic policies of the candidates for the office of POTUS in the 2016 election illustrates the last point made above. For those interested, publication of the results of such analyses in a clear, illustrated, interactive and game-like format can be found at: https://kumu.io/Center-for-Scientific-Analysis-of-Policy/all-potus-candi....
How can we help others to unite if we ourselves are divided?
They divided the Ottoman Empire into "states," largely drawing straight lines with little or no consideration of its People or natural resources. And where was there a realization of the distribution of and the intensity of the antipathy between Sunni and Shia? Could there have been a sub rosa motive were the architects of this disaster appreciative of the religious turmoil
Be that as it may, for lack of anything more promising, I agree with twstroud's five proposals were we to unilaterally attempt to cool the region, to pacify it, to advance it. But at what cost and to what end? At what risks considering our internal discords that obstruct the passage of acts by our legislature(s) to enhance and protect our lives and our economy?
Evaluation of the economic policies of the candidates for the office of POTUS in the 2016 election illustrates the last point made above. For those interested, publication of the results of such analyses in a clear, illustrated, interactive and game-like format can be found at: https://kumu.io/Center-for-Scientific-Analysis-of-Policy/all-potus-candi....
How can we help others to unite if we ourselves are divided?
Cool. Who's children are you going to expend to do this?
When allocating blame for killing the two state solution, Mr Friedman neglects to mention that Ehud Barak had offered the Palestinians exactly that and the Palestinians rejected it because they insisted on being able to settle whatever of their people who wished it within the borders of Israel as well. In other words, the only two state solution acceptable to the Palestinians is one where both states are Palestinian states, however named. But Mr Friedman is also right in that that moment has now passed and it is inconceivable either side will now give.
Interesting that Mr Friedman should mention Turkey as an aside while giving more importance to Putin's actions in Syria as designed to undermine Europe by creating a refugee situation. The far more dangerous development is that Assad forces, assisted by Russian airpower, are surrounding Aleppo, cutting it off from Turkey. Such a thing is seen by the Turks as a threat as it would confront it with forces it sees as terrorists directly upon its borders, with such forces being protected by aggressive Russian airpower and SAM sites. Which is viewed with such severity for the Turks to presently considering a ground intervention in Syria to stabilize the situation on their borders. Which could possibly bring a direct confrontation in the air between Russian planes and/or missilry and Turkish F-16s. And Turkey has just complained that Russian aircraft again are violating its airspace. A very dangerous situation.
Interesting that Mr Friedman should mention Turkey as an aside while giving more importance to Putin's actions in Syria as designed to undermine Europe by creating a refugee situation. The far more dangerous development is that Assad forces, assisted by Russian airpower, are surrounding Aleppo, cutting it off from Turkey. Such a thing is seen by the Turks as a threat as it would confront it with forces it sees as terrorists directly upon its borders, with such forces being protected by aggressive Russian airpower and SAM sites. Which is viewed with such severity for the Turks to presently considering a ground intervention in Syria to stabilize the situation on their borders. Which could possibly bring a direct confrontation in the air between Russian planes and/or missilry and Turkish F-16s. And Turkey has just complained that Russian aircraft again are violating its airspace. A very dangerous situation.
13
With our having no specific foreign policy for the last 7 plus years, I would ask. What if any strategic interest does the US have in the middle east, including Israel? Oil was a basic requirement for a very long time. That issue is no longer key, as we compete with the Middle east for market share. Israel seems armed to protect themselves, as there is no influence among world powers , including ourselves, to be able to bring so called peace, to that civilization. Obama was obvious with his lack of interest. How Bill and Hillary will see things is yet to unfold.
7
Our interest in the Middle East is to seek stability and nothing more. Chaos there bleeds everywhere.
The U.S. hasn't had a rational foreign policy in the Middle East for the past 68 years, not just the past seven years. It's always been Israel, Israel, Israel, it remains Israel, Israel, Israel, and it will be Israel, Israel, Israel in the future.
1
No Middle Eastern theocracy, including Israel, cares at all what Americans think about their country or their culture. Each theocracy is ruled by True Believers whose power is derived from the simple TRUTH & non-believers should be expelled from their borders.
Theocracies contribute nothing of scientific, educational, social or cultural value to the civilized world. Nothing. Secular nations may not be perfect, but can exist quite well without the Middle Eastern theocracies.
Let the Europeans settle their migrant problem. It's not new. The European fecklessness regarding defense of their borders must come to an end. Fund your NATO obligations.
The Israelis and the Palestinians will either resolve the two state issue, or they will live in constant guerrilla war with each other. Their choice alone. To the extent that other Muslim nations war on Israel in support of the Palestinians, again, that's Israel's problem. History is replete with such events and the world moves on.
The US should quarantine travel and end immigration with the Islamic middle east. Trade should be conducted at an arms length level. We don't need them and do not want their misogynistic, intellectually dead cultural in our secular world.
Those who want American forces to dance to the tune of the local theocrats, should form volunteer organizations to go and fight. All the chicken hawks in the spirit of GWB and Darth Cheney can get their chance to put their courage where their mouth is.
Theocracies contribute nothing of scientific, educational, social or cultural value to the civilized world. Nothing. Secular nations may not be perfect, but can exist quite well without the Middle Eastern theocracies.
Let the Europeans settle their migrant problem. It's not new. The European fecklessness regarding defense of their borders must come to an end. Fund your NATO obligations.
The Israelis and the Palestinians will either resolve the two state issue, or they will live in constant guerrilla war with each other. Their choice alone. To the extent that other Muslim nations war on Israel in support of the Palestinians, again, that's Israel's problem. History is replete with such events and the world moves on.
The US should quarantine travel and end immigration with the Islamic middle east. Trade should be conducted at an arms length level. We don't need them and do not want their misogynistic, intellectually dead cultural in our secular world.
Those who want American forces to dance to the tune of the local theocrats, should form volunteer organizations to go and fight. All the chicken hawks in the spirit of GWB and Darth Cheney can get their chance to put their courage where their mouth is.
135
And radical Islam is not a problem for you? San Bernadino is here. That's the theocratic problem you have. None other.
2
not quite so black and white; Israel could teach us a lot about dealing with global warming
I feel its important to point out that Israel is most certainly, not a theocracy. Though there are a couple of theocratic elements in the country, for example, the rabbinic courts control marriage licences, it is a country with secular law. It has a supreme court, which sports an Israeli Arab, a parliament with a diversity of parties, and equal rights for all of its citizens (the rights of those under military law in the west bank and gaza is a different story). Furthermore, to describe Israel as a country that has offered nothing to the world is laughable. Israel has been one of the most productive countries in the world per capita, in terms of patents being produced, start up companies, nobelauriates... the list could go on. Some of the hardware in your very computer was likely developed in Israel. I'm not sure if this changes your policy assessment, but it might encourage a change in perspective.
2
I would vote for any candidate, who are stage, said, I have no clue what I would do in the Middle East.
4
I've been reading Mr. Friedman's columns for years and have sometimes been frustrated with what I thought seemed to be optimism and positive thinking applied to events that might have been perceived differently. So it's really startling to read his grim assessment of the future of the Middle East. If even Mr. Friedman is throwing in the towel of hope, things are getting awfully scary.
18
A great article and a great summation of the current status of the Middle East.
Given this analysis, the only logical course of action is for the US and EU to scale back interactions with all states that do not take steps towards de-escalation of the situation and ultimately, democratic rule (and no, Israel is not a democracy as long as Arab residents of the West Bank, which it controls as part of the One state, do not have a vote.)
That means a dramatic reduction in military support for Israel and Saudi Arabia and caps on the amount of oil imports from the region.
The West cannot continue to unconditionally send arms and cash to the whole region and then act surprised when the result is chaos.
Given this analysis, the only logical course of action is for the US and EU to scale back interactions with all states that do not take steps towards de-escalation of the situation and ultimately, democratic rule (and no, Israel is not a democracy as long as Arab residents of the West Bank, which it controls as part of the One state, do not have a vote.)
That means a dramatic reduction in military support for Israel and Saudi Arabia and caps on the amount of oil imports from the region.
The West cannot continue to unconditionally send arms and cash to the whole region and then act surprised when the result is chaos.
24
The only problem with your statement is it's not true. The Palestinian Authority controls the majority of the West Bank. Giving them a free ride, as you and many others do, is a large part of the problem. The better question is when will the PA give them the right to vote again?
2
It would be amusing if it wasn't so entirely tragic. Shi'a, Sunnis, and Jews all believe in more or less the same God yet they delight in killing each other over relatively trivial differences of interpretation. Of course there are myriad political issues as well but these all find root in the underlying confessional differences.
If there is a god somewhere in the sands of Palestine, he must be disgusted.
If there is a god somewhere in the sands of Palestine, he must be disgusted.
44
Jews do not kill over trivial differences of interpretation in religions, or any difference in religion whatsoever. Israeli attacks on Gaza are reactions to rockets. These reactions may be considered disproportionate, excessive, but they cannot be attributed to religious differences. Until the creation of Israel, large numbers of Jews lived in Arab countries, European countries, Russia and America. Have you ever heard about them killing anyone for differences of religious interpretation? No. Rather they themselves were periodically massacred. Have you ever heard of a Jewish terrorist kamikaze blowing him or herself up in a public place in a foreign country for the simple pleasure of killing random people who don't share the same beliefs? No. So do not put these things on the same footing.
1
Windriven,
The story is not one of Shi'a, Sunnis and Jew killing each other.
Your powers of moral distinction are undistinguished.
The story is one of Shi'a and Sunnis killing each other and also killing Jews due to theological anti-Semitism dating back to the earliest days of Islam, when Jews were annihilated throughout Arabia.
The story is also one of Jews defending themselves today and crybullies complaining that they are not surrendering and committing national suicide.
We can see what happens to ethnic minorities in the Middle East that do not defend themselves.
The Zoroastrians (Parsis) and Bahais have been annihilated by the Shi'a.
The Yazidis, Armenians, and Aramean Christians have been annihilated or expelled by the Sunnis.
The Kurds and Druze are under daily threat and deprived of their national rights.
The Kurds, Baluchi, Turkmen, Azeri, Druze, Western Saharan, Berbers, and Copts are occupied and persecuted.
The Jews have built the only functional state from Morocco to Pakistan--one that has become the headquarters for the Bahai, the only place where Druze are not forcibly converted to Islam, the only place where the Christian population has grown considerably, the only place where Palestinians live civil rights, the only place where Jews are not expropriated, harassed, and expelled.
The story of peace processing in the past 100 years has been one of generous offers by the Jews and firm unqualified rejection by the Palestinians.
The story is not one of Shi'a, Sunnis and Jew killing each other.
Your powers of moral distinction are undistinguished.
The story is one of Shi'a and Sunnis killing each other and also killing Jews due to theological anti-Semitism dating back to the earliest days of Islam, when Jews were annihilated throughout Arabia.
The story is also one of Jews defending themselves today and crybullies complaining that they are not surrendering and committing national suicide.
We can see what happens to ethnic minorities in the Middle East that do not defend themselves.
The Zoroastrians (Parsis) and Bahais have been annihilated by the Shi'a.
The Yazidis, Armenians, and Aramean Christians have been annihilated or expelled by the Sunnis.
The Kurds and Druze are under daily threat and deprived of their national rights.
The Kurds, Baluchi, Turkmen, Azeri, Druze, Western Saharan, Berbers, and Copts are occupied and persecuted.
The Jews have built the only functional state from Morocco to Pakistan--one that has become the headquarters for the Bahai, the only place where Druze are not forcibly converted to Islam, the only place where the Christian population has grown considerably, the only place where Palestinians live civil rights, the only place where Jews are not expropriated, harassed, and expelled.
The story of peace processing in the past 100 years has been one of generous offers by the Jews and firm unqualified rejection by the Palestinians.
3
No Jew delights in killing. Self defense is no party.
5
The Middle East was a hornet's nest waiting to become some superpower's pinata. The old adage, "If you break it you bought it," applies here. After hanging this conflagration of artificial borderlands as a proud emblem and reminder of imperialism's golden days, the West (that'd be the U.S. and Europe) decided to take a more active role in meddling in the affairs of bloodlusty tribes and religions and relieve them of their strong-armed dictators once they got too uppity on their petrodollars and fighter jets. Russia is welcome to fill the vacuum the West has wisely created for them. This time they won't have a U.S.- Pakistan alliance of convenience to stand in their way. (Just a few hundred million Muslims to call the shots later on down the road.)
9
Tom,
You are right on the money! Talking about money...I think it's ultimately the flow of money that will determine the final outcome...
1: more money will be needed to keep all actors in the Middle East sustain their present path
2: how can the next US president do anything legitimately when he or she would have won a election due to billion dollar campaigns?
3: only when the flow of outside money stops would peace come to the Middle East.
So it's time for the middle class around to world to only elect leaders who are not funded by large corporations/vested interests. That would be a start...
You are right on the money! Talking about money...I think it's ultimately the flow of money that will determine the final outcome...
1: more money will be needed to keep all actors in the Middle East sustain their present path
2: how can the next US president do anything legitimately when he or she would have won a election due to billion dollar campaigns?
3: only when the flow of outside money stops would peace come to the Middle East.
So it's time for the middle class around to world to only elect leaders who are not funded by large corporations/vested interests. That would be a start...
7
Peace in the Middle East? Not for a few generations. Trust is needed, and little of that will ever happen for generations to come. BiBi poisoned the well? Maybe, but what really doomed things was Gaza. It proved for current generations that two state was delusional, given the violence that has happened over the last ten years. Still, Gaza could turn things around, given it is an ideal demonstration project for future efforts. If peace and prosperity can be built in Gaza, there is hope.
7
For there to be concrete solutions in Gaza, it will need to be supplied with concrete. However, that light must not be at the end of tunnels.
2
Gazans are in a walled prison-ghetto. All the cards are held by Israel.
2
Friedman needs to retire his Middle East crystal ball. He's been wrong on every major development from the Oslo accords to the arab spring to the Syrian conflict. In a for-profit-based corporation he would have been canned long ago for his incorrect assumptions.
23
Friedman blames Bibi and fanatical (indeed?) settlers, turns blind eyes to Arab states, Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon, Iraq, Yemen, Libya, Iran, ISIS, Palestinians,gulf states which participated in all major wars in efforts to destroy Israel and continue to all its Jewish citizens. Israel won the wars, made peace with Egypt and Jordan, returned Sinai with all its oil to Egypt, withdrew army from Lebanon (essentially ruled now by Hizballah), but kept the West bankl. Israel cannot yield the west bank which is essential to its security! Just look at the map! Israel is such a small country, 10 kilometers wide in some places between the West bank and the sea. If Israel vacates it to Palestinians it will be a launching ground for Palestinians to destroy Israel. The experience of the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza proves it: The Hamas organization took control, amassed thousands of rockets and built, and continues to build, underground tunnels leading into the insides of the pre 1967 Israeli border. No Israeli leader can afford to appease Palestinian moderates, if there any exist, by yielding the West bank territory, which will be launching ground for Israel's destruction. Mr. Friedman: Stop blaming Bibi, Lieberman and Israel for not yielding to your wise counsel: Vacate, vacate...yield, yield...,heed not Iran's promises to erase Israel, to Hizballah and Hamas plans to destroy Israel and to create the "beautiful" version of Islam peace and Sha-ariya laws with no Jews in Palestine.
6
Great! Now can we finally put the two=state solution to bed, and have one, secular democratic state. One person, one vote with the separation of church and state.
6
Yes, separation of Church and State. Like in the USA. Worthy goal but difficult to achieve even in America.
1
Rob,
You can't even get that in the U.S.
You can't even get that in the U.S.
1
"proving that Palestinians deserved a state by focusing on building institutions, not U.N. resolutions"
Actually why should Palestinians proove anything to anyone? It's their right to manage their affairs themselves. And it was their right even before west decided their land will be given to immigrants. Seems Mr. Friedman lives in time of colonialism when inferiors have to proove theirs masters they deserves their rights.
Actually why should Palestinians proove anything to anyone? It's their right to manage their affairs themselves. And it was their right even before west decided their land will be given to immigrants. Seems Mr. Friedman lives in time of colonialism when inferiors have to proove theirs masters they deserves their rights.
22
"Rights" are a human conception. They don't exist in non-human nature. Rights are established and maintained by force of law or other forceful impositions.
We are approaching a point of not being dependent on Mideast oil, therefore, our primary interest in meddling in the region is moot.
Let them all fend for themselves. Stop the meddling. Stop injecting money, weapons, troops or any other assistance.
Israel treats us as a piggy bank only, cut those ties completely.
Who really cares whether they choose dictatorships, wacky religious based governments, or any other type of government. Let them live with the consequences of their choices.
Let us focus on rebuilding our infrastructure.
Let them all fend for themselves. Stop the meddling. Stop injecting money, weapons, troops or any other assistance.
Israel treats us as a piggy bank only, cut those ties completely.
Who really cares whether they choose dictatorships, wacky religious based governments, or any other type of government. Let them live with the consequences of their choices.
Let us focus on rebuilding our infrastructure.
106
The remaining problem is the manner in which ISIS is being metastasized throughout the world with 34-43 affiliates pledging allegiance to ISIS.
There are 1,4 million Muslims in the world. However,ten to twenty thousand dedicated extremists can cause unending havoc throughout the world....
The ultimate question is-How will US and the West deal with this ominous 'spread of cancer'
There are 1,4 million Muslims in the world. However,ten to twenty thousand dedicated extremists can cause unending havoc throughout the world....
The ultimate question is-How will US and the West deal with this ominous 'spread of cancer'
And what is really sad is that all of these conflicts are consciously based upon the religious fantasies of the contesting parties. If there were a deity watching over all this He or She would be humiliated at the atrocities performed in Her or His Name. What's even worse is that the underlying causes have nothing to so with theology but are the byproducts of a human psychology that compels us unconsciously to find reasons to hate and maim others irrationally.
9
Tom, for America to be an effective world leader, we need the tools for it and we currently don't have them. One leader (Obama in this current case) cannot hope to accomplish anything without the help of Congress and that august body has chosen not to involve in any meaningful way. Also, we could use some substantive help from the Middle East and that is not now nor will it be forthcoming.
What will inspire cooperation and forward motions in the Middle East is a question for the ages and the United States cannot turn to the current Presidential candidates for help.
What will inspire cooperation and forward motions in the Middle East is a question for the ages and the United States cannot turn to the current Presidential candidates for help.
2
The overwhelming power of the beneficiaries of conflict has dwarfed the reason and desire of the masses for peace and prosperity. While this trend has engulfed the Middle East, we shouldn't be blindsided when the insatiable grab for "control" through disruption begins to pervade the rest of the world we live in. The "my way or the highway" few continue to dominate the news both nationwide and worldwide over the muffled cries of the many who just want to take care of their families and live comfortable lives. The 21st century is devolving in front of our eyes. Consensus building is becoming an antiquated notion which does not bode well for any of us.
5
Friedman appears to gravitate towards stark realism here, which is a qualified downer when it comes to the Middle East. People won't soon forget that Hamas used their people as human shields, or that Netanyahu was such a rigid personality that he virtually undid the accomplishments of Begin and Rabin by himself. The murder of Anwar Sadat was another milestone in the failed attempts to deliver peace to the region. A fresh helping of US interference in 1991 and 2001 which matched the effect of the coup and installment of the Shah of Iran in 1952 will go down in history as two of the biggest blunders in US foreign policy ever.
There are many reasons why many now feel that the initiatives to stem the bloodbath and refugee exodus are only a Band-Aid now, because the wounds are too many, and too raw. Europe would be better off providing as much money to Turkey as possible to support the refugee crisis, and forget about assimilation into their cultures. You can't fix what's wrong in the ME.
Pax Americana is dead because no one country can afford to police the world with the most expensive military in the world any more. Whatever coalition building or peace making can occur is something we all should support, because it will eventually allow us to turn our economy towards what is both moral and sensible for our citizens to prosper. Terrorism will rear its ugly head from time to time, but it will never be completely defeated. We need to come to that realization, Mr. Friedman.
There are many reasons why many now feel that the initiatives to stem the bloodbath and refugee exodus are only a Band-Aid now, because the wounds are too many, and too raw. Europe would be better off providing as much money to Turkey as possible to support the refugee crisis, and forget about assimilation into their cultures. You can't fix what's wrong in the ME.
Pax Americana is dead because no one country can afford to police the world with the most expensive military in the world any more. Whatever coalition building or peace making can occur is something we all should support, because it will eventually allow us to turn our economy towards what is both moral and sensible for our citizens to prosper. Terrorism will rear its ugly head from time to time, but it will never be completely defeated. We need to come to that realization, Mr. Friedman.
21
The people in the U.S., for the most part, do not care about the Middle East. They realize that the U.S. has made big mistakes in the region. They also realize that there are many things in the culture of the region that make it highly unlikely that there will be peace any time soon, regardless of U.S. policy. Continued terror by Muslims in the west will solidify the disdain for this area. It does not matter who wins the U.S. election from the Middle Eastern perspective, no future president is going to commit large U.S. resources to the area and no future president is going to take many Middle Eastern immigrants. The oil price decline and environmental degradation will hasten the desire of people to leave, forcing Europe to crack dow on immigration to avoid being destroyed. This is a cauldron that will boil for years to come. All we will do is sit back and watch as the place careens out of control. At some point, it will get bad enough that people in the region will say enough. But, it is going to get worse before it gets better.
11
'it is going to get worse before it gets better'.
My maternal grandfather was in the ANZACs in WW I. He was stationed in Egypt and what was then Palestine. He returned to Australia firmly convinced that there has never been peace in the region and will never be peace in the region.
And that was exactly 100 years ago.
It is not going to get better. People in the region are shackled to old enmities, tribes, oligarchies, creeds, superstitions, and practices that pre-date the Epic of Gilgamesh. By and large, they accept this state of affairs as the way things are and have always been, and their only solution seems to be either to accept or to flee, bringing with them those same archaic tribalisms that caused the chaos in the first place.
My heart bleeds for those caught in the middle, but you cannot help people who do not want to be helped.
My maternal grandfather was in the ANZACs in WW I. He was stationed in Egypt and what was then Palestine. He returned to Australia firmly convinced that there has never been peace in the region and will never be peace in the region.
And that was exactly 100 years ago.
It is not going to get better. People in the region are shackled to old enmities, tribes, oligarchies, creeds, superstitions, and practices that pre-date the Epic of Gilgamesh. By and large, they accept this state of affairs as the way things are and have always been, and their only solution seems to be either to accept or to flee, bringing with them those same archaic tribalisms that caused the chaos in the first place.
My heart bleeds for those caught in the middle, but you cannot help people who do not want to be helped.
This is a completely realistic assessment of the Middle East today. Israel is waging a war of societal attrition against the Palestinians. It is obvious to me that after the last big intifada, Israel said that's it. They built a wall to keep the terrorists out. Then they started to build out toward the east. Gobbling up a bit at a time.
Why did this happen? Terrorism is why. Terrorism accomplishes nothing except running up a body count. It results in massive urban demolition when retaliated against. That's a really big body count.
Why couldn't or can't a peace be negotiated. There is no central party on the Arab side to negotiate with. They are a fractured, rudderless community led by powerless officials, widespread corruption and violent terrorists. They are pawns of wealthy oil states that use them as proxies for their own purposes. For example, there are many tens of thousands of Palestinian refugees in Lebanon that for decades have lived in absolute squalor in segregated ghettos. Lebanon does not want to integrate them into their greater society. No one wants them.
Egypt walls off Gaza and greatly restricts movement. Egypt doesn't want them either.
Every Arab nation holds the Palestinians up as the poster child of oppression from Jews and the West. They are far too valuable a commodity to be relieved from that role. If there was true peace, then there would be no reason for all of them to stand against Israel.
Why did this happen? Terrorism is why. Terrorism accomplishes nothing except running up a body count. It results in massive urban demolition when retaliated against. That's a really big body count.
Why couldn't or can't a peace be negotiated. There is no central party on the Arab side to negotiate with. They are a fractured, rudderless community led by powerless officials, widespread corruption and violent terrorists. They are pawns of wealthy oil states that use them as proxies for their own purposes. For example, there are many tens of thousands of Palestinian refugees in Lebanon that for decades have lived in absolute squalor in segregated ghettos. Lebanon does not want to integrate them into their greater society. No one wants them.
Egypt walls off Gaza and greatly restricts movement. Egypt doesn't want them either.
Every Arab nation holds the Palestinians up as the poster child of oppression from Jews and the West. They are far too valuable a commodity to be relieved from that role. If there was true peace, then there would be no reason for all of them to stand against Israel.
38
Wow, what a wake-up call! On the one hand, we are waffling on the unreality of the New Hampshire campaign; on the other, Tom Friedman douses us with cold water.
Keep it up, Tom. Please keep it up. Don't get discouraged. We need to hear you.
Almost forgot: Thank you.
Keep it up, Tom. Please keep it up. Don't get discouraged. We need to hear you.
Almost forgot: Thank you.
20
I am glad that Tom is not the POTUS. He gave up on a decent solution for peace. I hope he is wrong and the next president will try to bring the two sides to the table, with a threat of cutting off all aid if they don't. If Tom is right (like he usually is) I am officially depressed.
5
So , what to DO? watch and buy stocks in Raytheon? That's what it sounds like..another decade of despair ALL OVER AGAIN........... ..C.
4
How building a "fence" ( a la Ariel Sharon) around the whole region keeping everyone in or out until they settle it on their own. When the dust settles, text us.
I would expand this column to all MENA ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MENA ), as we will see libya, algeria, yemen and afghanistan following the levante.
Up to recently all troubles had been with absolutistic structures and despots like Khadafy or Saddam Hussein or the iran clerics. This structures had been awkward, but they had been predictable.
All this is borne by social unrest and emancipation of an educated middle-class. There is no political solution, there are many policies, but the main actor are the arabian citizen. And that is why we need a social solution.
And i do not think that a one-state, no-state, non-state approach will do this.
We should prepare for a 30-years irregular war like from 1618-1648, and our contribution should just be to contain it and let it burn, because this is what always will be due when an old order fails and falls apart.
Up to recently all troubles had been with absolutistic structures and despots like Khadafy or Saddam Hussein or the iran clerics. This structures had been awkward, but they had been predictable.
All this is borne by social unrest and emancipation of an educated middle-class. There is no political solution, there are many policies, but the main actor are the arabian citizen. And that is why we need a social solution.
And i do not think that a one-state, no-state, non-state approach will do this.
We should prepare for a 30-years irregular war like from 1618-1648, and our contribution should just be to contain it and let it burn, because this is what always will be due when an old order fails and falls apart.
10
The post-Arab uprisings and post-Iran deal Middle East is no longer the fishing spot for the US and West, hence no need to air platitudes about the regional allies, already nearing the Hobbesian state of chaos following the short experience of externally sustained statehood.
6
What the region needs a lot more John Locke and a lot less Islam.
2
Why slouching toward Bethlehem? Armageddon perhaps (not meaning the battle that will end the world, just the place that has been a pivotal point in the area for about 4000 years.
1
Tom is just letting us know he's read his Yeats.
Reference is to Yeats's poem," The Second Coming"
"And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?"
"And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?"
Because is a reference to the poem The Second Coming (Slouching Toward Bethlehem) by Yeats.
http://www.mcabee.org/~lcm/lines/slouch.html
http://www.mcabee.org/~lcm/lines/slouch.html
Right. The GOP and its candidates suggest that 'solving' the issues of the Middle East from Israel to ISIS is quite doable and that only Barak Obama's incompetence and/or evil intent has kept the area in such a mess all these years. Mr. Trump and Mr Cruz have promises to fix things lickidy split if they are elected. Yet the enormity of the problems are staggering:
1) Israel-Palestine - the conflict and attempts to settle it has spanned my entire lifetime (and I am retired). Brilliant minds and hard, dedicated people have spent thousands of hours trying to get the sides to talk (when one can ID who the 'sides' actually are); trying to get them to agree on something, and then trying to get them to stick to what is agreed - mostly, ultimately the results are zilch.
2) Iran - ok, maybe some small progress for the present, but certainly still a rogue state (elect Cruz and he promises to undo what has been done on his 1st day in office)
3) ISIS - requires violence - whose weapons, lives, money????
4) Syria, Libya etc - breeding grounds for ISIS and other groups; hard to know what to do - again, may require violence - whose weapons, lives, money??? Do we want to open up wars and/or eternally maintain no-fly-zones in several areas of the Middle East?
What scares me more than 1-4 is the unshakable belief of Trump, Cruz et al that they can step up and fix all that with enough American hubris, testosterone and access to the right weapons.
1) Israel-Palestine - the conflict and attempts to settle it has spanned my entire lifetime (and I am retired). Brilliant minds and hard, dedicated people have spent thousands of hours trying to get the sides to talk (when one can ID who the 'sides' actually are); trying to get them to agree on something, and then trying to get them to stick to what is agreed - mostly, ultimately the results are zilch.
2) Iran - ok, maybe some small progress for the present, but certainly still a rogue state (elect Cruz and he promises to undo what has been done on his 1st day in office)
3) ISIS - requires violence - whose weapons, lives, money????
4) Syria, Libya etc - breeding grounds for ISIS and other groups; hard to know what to do - again, may require violence - whose weapons, lives, money??? Do we want to open up wars and/or eternally maintain no-fly-zones in several areas of the Middle East?
What scares me more than 1-4 is the unshakable belief of Trump, Cruz et al that they can step up and fix all that with enough American hubris, testosterone and access to the right weapons.
169
Your observations are correct and I also agree with Friedmann's comments. However, recall past election campaigns where candidates made the same kind of promises to "fix" things. Then, as now, they act like Congress and the courts do not exist and the presidency controls everything. When a candidate promises sweeping change I want to stand up and shout "You do not control Congress!" I want a candidate who can eloquently explain our values and be a leader. I do not want a candidate who makes ridiculous promises.
6
The Middle East is broken and USA/Israel broke it . The USA cannot fix it and Apartheid Israel is not worth fighting for . USA and BDS !
6
Friedman asks everyone to stop proposing a two state solution to the Israel-Palestinian conflict - as its dead.
He's wrong. It's not dead; to the contrary, it's inevitable.
True, Netanyahu doesn't want it; but many Israeli leaders do. President Clinton proposed a reasonable plan in 2001, and the result was best summed up by Clinton in his book My Life: "Arafat's rejection of my proposal after Barak [Israel's Prime Minister] accepted it was an error of historic proportions."
There have been many such mistakes "of historic proportion." But Israel cannot continue to occupy a region populated by millions of people who want their own state. Both the citizens of Israel and the Palestinians won't allow that to continue forever.
Ideally what needs to happen is the emergence - at the same time - of responsible, courageous leaders on both sides wiling to make big sacrifices for peace. Israeli leaders such as Weitzman, Rabin, Barak and Olmert. I can't give any examples on the Palestinian side because there haven't been any.
But if the ideal doesn't happen, what will happen is that Israel will slowly withdraw from much of the West Bank unilaterally, much as they did with Gaza in 2005. And yes, even taking that pathway, eventually responsible leaders on both sides will show up to make a permanent, peaceful resolution.
Unfortunately it's still going to take a long time. Long after Friedman will be around to concede that he was wrong.
He's wrong. It's not dead; to the contrary, it's inevitable.
True, Netanyahu doesn't want it; but many Israeli leaders do. President Clinton proposed a reasonable plan in 2001, and the result was best summed up by Clinton in his book My Life: "Arafat's rejection of my proposal after Barak [Israel's Prime Minister] accepted it was an error of historic proportions."
There have been many such mistakes "of historic proportion." But Israel cannot continue to occupy a region populated by millions of people who want their own state. Both the citizens of Israel and the Palestinians won't allow that to continue forever.
Ideally what needs to happen is the emergence - at the same time - of responsible, courageous leaders on both sides wiling to make big sacrifices for peace. Israeli leaders such as Weitzman, Rabin, Barak and Olmert. I can't give any examples on the Palestinian side because there haven't been any.
But if the ideal doesn't happen, what will happen is that Israel will slowly withdraw from much of the West Bank unilaterally, much as they did with Gaza in 2005. And yes, even taking that pathway, eventually responsible leaders on both sides will show up to make a permanent, peaceful resolution.
Unfortunately it's still going to take a long time. Long after Friedman will be around to concede that he was wrong.
21
You're dreaming.
1
Something like that is going to but it will be after Saudi Arabia falls and ISIS deals with Apartheid Israel . Yes . You will get a one-state solution but not the one you wanted . It doesn't have to end this way .
But then it started this way with Irgun , the Zionist terrorists .
But then it started this way with Irgun , the Zionist terrorists .
4
The Palestinians want a state, a true sovereign nation, just ;like Israel. The deal Arafat rejected was not a good deal, it was a humiliating ultimatum. He wasn't even allowed to have a copy of the proposed borders. Under these circumstances if the tables were reversed, would Israel have accepted these terms? Not a chance. Abbas has been the model partner for peace since then, and what has it gotten them? Land grabs, walls, settlers with terrorist aims, a slow strangulation of economic and cultural life.
6
This is a murky article by Tom Friedman. The entire Middle East is unstable.
with Libya and Syria disintegrating, Iran on the verge of building a nuclear device
with the $150 billion released by the U.S./Iranian treaty, the oil markets
destabilizing Saudi Arabia, and the Iranian Revolutionary Guard naval forces
capturing our sailors. Netanyahu was elected to defend Israel. Friedman was
hired to write columns. Obviously, Friedman has no solutions to the historic
problems of the area. Nothing has changed since Martin Gilbert wrote his
book "Israel", published in 1998.
with Libya and Syria disintegrating, Iran on the verge of building a nuclear device
with the $150 billion released by the U.S./Iranian treaty, the oil markets
destabilizing Saudi Arabia, and the Iranian Revolutionary Guard naval forces
capturing our sailors. Netanyahu was elected to defend Israel. Friedman was
hired to write columns. Obviously, Friedman has no solutions to the historic
problems of the area. Nothing has changed since Martin Gilbert wrote his
book "Israel", published in 1998.
9
Touche!
2
Let us imagine a future in which etnicity and religion have no role in governance anywhere in the world. This would mean a democratic state encompassing Israel and the territories based solely on human rights and democracy. Dare we dream of such a future?
15
We can dream such a future. But those who build statecraft on dreams are fools.
Perhaps try daring first in the over 20 Muslim countries in the world with its vast numbers of population.
3
Sure, dream away.
I guess in the end no matter who wins the election in November, US policy will continue the policy of practical disengagement that the Obama Administration has brought. Perhaps a less feckless Syria policy combined with the Iranian nuclear deal could have been the basis to have reasserted the U.S. positively into the region's future. This moment seems likely to have passed, and it is hard to see any of the leading Presidential candidates (other than rhetorically) committing much more to the Region, now that the U.S. has its alternate source of fossil fuels. Other than obviously the people of the Region being the big losers, Europe stands in a very precarious position as the continued toll from the humanitarian crisis in the Middle East will likely pull apart the EU as well (talk about unexpected collateral damage).
41
I think is time that sovereign countries take matters of destiny into their hands.
The US should be fine disengaging from conflicts.
The ME is a quagmire the the people living there should solve. Let's see if they act as responsible people.
I can't be optimistic considering how uneducated their people are.
The US should be fine disengaging from conflicts.
The ME is a quagmire the the people living there should solve. Let's see if they act as responsible people.
I can't be optimistic considering how uneducated their people are.
5
"Perhaps a less feckless Syria policy..."
Someone's going to have to explain this one to me. We have no diplomatic relations with the Syrians. We don't have any national interest there. If it weren't for Daesh and the outcry of Obama's detractors, we wouldn't even be involved. Oh, and these are the same detractors who didn't want to authorize the use of force because they wanted Obama to swing in the breeze by himself. If I were in his shoes, I'd pack it in and support the allies that are dealing with the refugees.
This is nothing more than a Saudi-Iranian regional proxy war, and don't get me started on Turkey. My point is, if feckless can be replaced by a better policy, I would freakn love to hear it! So far all I've heard is "carpet bombing" and "glowing sand" and we all should know better than that by now. I for one am tired of supporting "allies" that have none of our interests at heart.
Someone's going to have to explain this one to me. We have no diplomatic relations with the Syrians. We don't have any national interest there. If it weren't for Daesh and the outcry of Obama's detractors, we wouldn't even be involved. Oh, and these are the same detractors who didn't want to authorize the use of force because they wanted Obama to swing in the breeze by himself. If I were in his shoes, I'd pack it in and support the allies that are dealing with the refugees.
This is nothing more than a Saudi-Iranian regional proxy war, and don't get me started on Turkey. My point is, if feckless can be replaced by a better policy, I would freakn love to hear it! So far all I've heard is "carpet bombing" and "glowing sand" and we all should know better than that by now. I for one am tired of supporting "allies" that have none of our interests at heart.
Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman does, in fact, care about how America views Israel. Or, at least he will the next time Israel approaches a full-fledged war with it's Arab enemies and faces the prospect of losing. Then Netanyahu, or whoever is Prime Minister at the time, will not hesitate to plead for emergency armaments, intelligence, and political backing.
But the next time that support may not be as readily forthcoming as it has in the past. The escalating erosion of American and world sympathy for Israel is a fact that self-delusion on the part of the religious right in Israel cannot alter. Does Mr. Lieberman truly believe that Israel can continue to disregard a world that is increasingly indifferent, if not actively hostile, to its interests? Go it alone if you wish; just don't expect the United States to be there when you need us again.
But the next time that support may not be as readily forthcoming as it has in the past. The escalating erosion of American and world sympathy for Israel is a fact that self-delusion on the part of the religious right in Israel cannot alter. Does Mr. Lieberman truly believe that Israel can continue to disregard a world that is increasingly indifferent, if not actively hostile, to its interests? Go it alone if you wish; just don't expect the United States to be there when you need us again.
231
The U.S. will be there. It may grumble, but it will be there. Who will be the American President who stands idly by while Jews are again slaughtered en masse and the sole democratic state in the Middle East driven into the sea?
1
The jews who are now doing it to the Palestinians? Stop playing the victim card here. Israel is NOT the underdog, they are the oppressors.
3
SW, the US will continue to provide support to Israel and the reason is simple if you just imagine that area dominated by Arabs, ISIS, Hamas, al-Nusra etc., etc. without Israel's presence. If Europe feels "threatened" now, the threat will be multiplied a thousand fold without the bulwark of Israel. And ironically such a situation also fits neatly into the delusional thinking of ISIS and evangelical Christians about the End Of Days Battle.
I also object to the mischaracterization by Friedman of the fight between the Palestinians and Israel as a "civil war." Such wars are fought between members of the same state often over questions of policy. This isn't one of those. There are more parts in the Middle East than in a jigsaw puzzle and most of them refuse to compromise to achieve peace. At present, Israel is the least of the problems in the Middle East given that Arabs kill each other at a faster clip than any that are done in by Israel.
I also object to the mischaracterization by Friedman of the fight between the Palestinians and Israel as a "civil war." Such wars are fought between members of the same state often over questions of policy. This isn't one of those. There are more parts in the Middle East than in a jigsaw puzzle and most of them refuse to compromise to achieve peace. At present, Israel is the least of the problems in the Middle East given that Arabs kill each other at a faster clip than any that are done in by Israel.
3
One basic problem of the Middle East is that after the Iranian revolution the Saudi's have tried to out-radicalize the Iranians. That may have helped them to decrease the appeal of the Iranian model on their population but it has had harmful effects in every other way.
As a consequence there is no attractive alternative model to Islamic extremism in the region available.
Russia's support for the Syrian government may in the short term increase the number of refugees - as people are fleeing the battlefield, but in the long run it will help to establish peache and allow people to return.
A victory for the rebels in Syria would have much worse effects as it would drive out many of the 70 to 80% of the population that lives in government controlled areas.
As a consequence there is no attractive alternative model to Islamic extremism in the region available.
Russia's support for the Syrian government may in the short term increase the number of refugees - as people are fleeing the battlefield, but in the long run it will help to establish peache and allow people to return.
A victory for the rebels in Syria would have much worse effects as it would drive out many of the 70 to 80% of the population that lives in government controlled areas.
6
It seems that those who put the regime change formula into motion in Syria, also created the conditions for ISIS to assume control there, which as we have all seen, would be a complete and total humanitarian disaster. It's very hard to put the genie back into the bottle, as we know from the Taliban experience. To think US policymakers didn't realize this at the outset, when they opted to fund rebel groups affiliated with al-Qaeda is very hard to fathom.
4
The usual "Israel is guilty" perspective from Mr Friedman. It is not Israel who declares ownership of all land "From the River to the Sea" - it is Hamas, Hizboallah, Iran and others. The UN Security Council who stated "secure and recognized borders" but did NOT state "return to the 67 borders."
It was Israel who offered 95% of all PA demands and Arafat and Abbas who declined. It was the Arabs who sent terror squads to kill schoolchildren and civilians again and again from the 1920s until now.
It was Hamas who rained missiles on Israel for 2 weeks before Israel responded.
It was Israel who suspended building for 10 months in response to a US and PA request and the PA during the entire time refused to sit down and then demanded another extension.
Israel left Gaza "in return for peace" and got missiles. Israel left Lebanon "in return for peace" and got missiles and kidnapped (and then murdered) soldiers.
Indeed (and I do not like Bibi) there is no partner on the other side. The PA schools teach "death to all Jews" and "From the river to the sea". The Israel schools teach coexistence and peace.
Mr Friedman has been wrong more times than right regarding everything in the ME and continues to be undisturbed by the facts.
It was Israel who offered 95% of all PA demands and Arafat and Abbas who declined. It was the Arabs who sent terror squads to kill schoolchildren and civilians again and again from the 1920s until now.
It was Hamas who rained missiles on Israel for 2 weeks before Israel responded.
It was Israel who suspended building for 10 months in response to a US and PA request and the PA during the entire time refused to sit down and then demanded another extension.
Israel left Gaza "in return for peace" and got missiles. Israel left Lebanon "in return for peace" and got missiles and kidnapped (and then murdered) soldiers.
Indeed (and I do not like Bibi) there is no partner on the other side. The PA schools teach "death to all Jews" and "From the river to the sea". The Israel schools teach coexistence and peace.
Mr Friedman has been wrong more times than right regarding everything in the ME and continues to be undisturbed by the facts.
96
Demanding a conquered people who have no civil rights and whose lives are a constant exercise in humiliation to "behave" had been the greatest Israeli PR achievement for decades. It enabled Avigdor Lieberman and his co-horts to not care about American Jews' views about Israel while asking those same folk for yet greater donations.
The world is getting wise to the ruse. Sadly, tragically, the world, and most of all the Middle East, are a powder keg.
The world is getting wise to the ruse. Sadly, tragically, the world, and most of all the Middle East, are a powder keg.
5
Boy, Talk about a stilted, one-sided review of recent history. Sure the other side is wrong, wrong in very important ways. But that does not excuse the radicals in Israel who recently have sauntered toward a similar radicalism as exists on the other side.
We in the US have suffered mightily for our romance with right-wing radicalism, and, sadly, the good (mostly) people of Israel will have to suffer. The difference is that we here in the US have a cushion, called a large ocean. Whereas the folks in Israel do not. Always, suffer the innocent majority for the fool they (not always) elect (witness voter suppression, and supremes giving the country over to a pair of fools [Bush-Cheney]).
Suffer the innocents, the story of world history.
We in the US have suffered mightily for our romance with right-wing radicalism, and, sadly, the good (mostly) people of Israel will have to suffer. The difference is that we here in the US have a cushion, called a large ocean. Whereas the folks in Israel do not. Always, suffer the innocent majority for the fool they (not always) elect (witness voter suppression, and supremes giving the country over to a pair of fools [Bush-Cheney]).
Suffer the innocents, the story of world history.
7
Actually, in practice Israel has claimed ownership of all land from the Jordan river to the sea since 1967, almost fifty years now. At some point, decades past now, Israel was no longer an occupying army on the west bank. It is a colonial power; it grants no franchise to the native people; it expropriates their land. While this system is not Apartheid, it does resemble it in many ways. If Israel wishes to fit into the normal, rich OECD world, as it clearly aspires to do, it must grants the full rights of citizenship to the Arab people of the west bank. The West Bank is the only sizeable colony left in the world; Israel needs to join the 21st century.
6
Thomas L. Friedman writes two paragraphs that actually sums it up: "It will be a Middle East shaped by struggle over a one-state solution, a no-state solution, a non-state solution and a rogue-state solution."
"That is, a one-state solution in Israel, a no-state solution in Syria, Yemen and Libya, a non-state solution offered by the Islamic caliphate and a rogue-state solution offered by Iran."
In my honest opinion you put the nail into the coffin and the only solution I see combining all three as was done by naming Jesus the "King of the Jews" and sealing his fate is going alongside Russia as the bearer of goods to be seeked out by ISIL. If ISIL goes that far into Europe all we, the U.S., needs to do is keep a hold on the nuclear deal that has been struck among other alliances alongside with us into containing peace and the threat of other nuclear powers.
"That is, a one-state solution in Israel, a no-state solution in Syria, Yemen and Libya, a non-state solution offered by the Islamic caliphate and a rogue-state solution offered by Iran."
In my honest opinion you put the nail into the coffin and the only solution I see combining all three as was done by naming Jesus the "King of the Jews" and sealing his fate is going alongside Russia as the bearer of goods to be seeked out by ISIL. If ISIL goes that far into Europe all we, the U.S., needs to do is keep a hold on the nuclear deal that has been struck among other alliances alongside with us into containing peace and the threat of other nuclear powers.
I AGREE With heavy heart what Thom Friedman writes because, to my horror, he is spot on. He warned us in the US that if we went into Iraq without an exit strategy and the country shattered like a walnut, we own it. Well, we own the whole filthy rotten mess in the Mideast. I'll leave aside the diatribe echoing in my head about Dubya-Chainee, as it does not good to indict anyone for guilt, no matter how blameworthy. To me the biggest unpredictable factor is the shifted dynamic caused by the alliance of Iran with Syria with Putin's godfathering the whole bloody mess. I'm sick at heart to think that what was described as Putin's quagmire has become the world's toxic waste dump. If Israel is not your granddad's Israel, neither is any other country nor entity like what grandpa kewn. These changes are the proverbial shattered walnut envisioned by Thom Friedman. To describe it requires an adaptation of Humpty Dumpty from an egg to a walnut. I cringe to think what will come out of the unholy mess that the Mideast has become. Even more am I revolted at the world we are leaving for our children and grandchildren. I'm afraid that in our wish for world peace, We Are Overcome.
21
He was also a cheerleader for the war promising progress every six months, when indeed is was an ugly quagmire created by Bremmer and our idiotic president who didn't know the difference between a Suni and a Shiiite.
4
Let's play "Who am I?" Ready? "Well, you know Hillary Clinton voted for the Iraq War, right? Now, about inequality, as I was saying..." That an antiwar socialist voted against a war is not exactly surprising.
That we can always create coalitions or use proxies to do this, that, and the other thing is not reality-based. Sometimes, if we won't do it, it won't be done. We've seen that pulling out can have as disastrous consequences as charging in, guns blazing. The two-state solution is not dead, but it's not reasonable to think that the Palestinians are ready to sustain a peaceful state alongside Israel. As Michael Oren says, let's have a two-state reality before we have a two-state solution. Give up terrorism, rejectionism, violence, hatred, denial; accept reality and learn to build a future. Let's help the Palestinians construct accountable institutions that are vital to statehood. You don't just say, Hey, here's your state; enjoy it. That won't endure.
When it comes to the chaos in the Middle East, I really don't want to go back to dictatorships that keep lids on cauldrons. No matter how long it takes, we have to stick with it. If Middle Eastern societies can't reform themselves so that they fit into the modern world, strongmen will be needed and, at some point in the future, the lids will come off again -- and we'll be right back here.
Arab cultures particularly seem to be quite violence-prone. It's not just outside forces causing it, either -- so spare me, commies.
That we can always create coalitions or use proxies to do this, that, and the other thing is not reality-based. Sometimes, if we won't do it, it won't be done. We've seen that pulling out can have as disastrous consequences as charging in, guns blazing. The two-state solution is not dead, but it's not reasonable to think that the Palestinians are ready to sustain a peaceful state alongside Israel. As Michael Oren says, let's have a two-state reality before we have a two-state solution. Give up terrorism, rejectionism, violence, hatred, denial; accept reality and learn to build a future. Let's help the Palestinians construct accountable institutions that are vital to statehood. You don't just say, Hey, here's your state; enjoy it. That won't endure.
When it comes to the chaos in the Middle East, I really don't want to go back to dictatorships that keep lids on cauldrons. No matter how long it takes, we have to stick with it. If Middle Eastern societies can't reform themselves so that they fit into the modern world, strongmen will be needed and, at some point in the future, the lids will come off again -- and we'll be right back here.
Arab cultures particularly seem to be quite violence-prone. It's not just outside forces causing it, either -- so spare me, commies.
4
" so spare me commies"
Sorry but you lost me with that remark.
What the heck are you blithering about?
Sorry but you lost me with that remark.
What the heck are you blithering about?
5
One word: settlements.
There will not be a constructive dialogue between Israelis and Palestinians so long as Israel has its thumb in the Palestinian eye.
There will not be a constructive dialogue between Israelis and Palestinians so long as Israel has its thumb in the Palestinian eye.
7
"WE have to stick with it." Well, who, exactly, is "WE"? YOUR sons and daughters ?
I would bet not.
I would bet not.
4
I am reminded of the football coach Bill Parcell's quote, “You are what your record says you are.”
Time after time we have proven to be no more influential in bringing peace to the Mideast than anyone, but we suffer from the national narcissistic belief that we alone are the way.
This is the point of Obama that most seem to miss. He knows the futility of the Mideast quagmire and he is artfully shifting responsibility for a solution to the Hatfields, McCoys, Tewksburys, and Grahams.
Time after time we have proven to be no more influential in bringing peace to the Mideast than anyone, but we suffer from the national narcissistic belief that we alone are the way.
This is the point of Obama that most seem to miss. He knows the futility of the Mideast quagmire and he is artfully shifting responsibility for a solution to the Hatfields, McCoys, Tewksburys, and Grahams.
128
So the Middle East is a mess ... thanks Tom I didn't know that.
6
The sad truth is that the One State Solution is being replaced by the No State Solution: The Age of Oil is dying, as is the Israeli's ability to depend on an engaged United States ally. Tomorrow? Don't be surprised to hear Trump offer 30% of Utah to the wonderful Jewish people. After all, 10 million vs. 1.5 billion is not a winning bet, and isn't the new American ethos all about avoiding winless adventures? ISRAEL - you are on your own, backs to the Mediterranean Sea, and it's going to take a miracle to save your nation.
10
@Dr. Brian
Jewish survival has always been miraculous, and there are countless examples in our history that demonstrate this. Perhaps it's fitting that today marks the first day of the Hebrew month of Adar (the first of two Adars this leap year), a month famous for the Purim story. There was no hope then, either.
It's God's movie.
Jewish survival has always been miraculous, and there are countless examples in our history that demonstrate this. Perhaps it's fitting that today marks the first day of the Hebrew month of Adar (the first of two Adars this leap year), a month famous for the Purim story. There was no hope then, either.
It's God's movie.
2
They'll save their nation, and lose their soul.
2
Nice post, at least the 2-state dream/nightmare is off the table officially, and the realistic 1-state solution will emerge. Of course, that involves that the current Israel is an apartheid state, meaning sanctions and boycott, but eventually it will lead to a plausible and peaceful place.
Albeit no Jewish state any-more. But if Israel wants to continue to pretend to be a democratic state, it cannot at the same time pretend to be a Jewish state.
Albeit no Jewish state any-more. But if Israel wants to continue to pretend to be a democratic state, it cannot at the same time pretend to be a Jewish state.
122
Gee you have a prettier picture than I do. It will be Jewish; it may be peaceful, but it will not have large numbers of Palestinians; no one, even them, cares enough about them.
1
profound/troubling - thank you
7
Thomas I will offer the same solution I have been offering the last ten years a Jewish State in America's rust belt. lt is too late for a Palestinian State in America's heartland as I might have suggested earlier.
I find it ironic that 100 years ago my grandfather was shipping young men and women throughout the globe to see where a viable Jewish state might be allowed to flourish and exist in peace.`
I find it ironic that 100 years ago my grandfather was shipping young men and women throughout the globe to see where a viable Jewish state might be allowed to flourish and exist in peace.`
2
@Montreal
I think a viable Paliestinain state would do well - nay, flourish - in the rust belt or, even better, in the heartland of Canada itself. There, western norms and morals could be easily (well, more easily) integrated into that society.
I could have recommended the Saudi peninsula as a viable location (thereby earning extra Haj points along the way), but it's pretty evident that Muslim countries have not been very giving to their coreligionists in trouble.
I think a viable Paliestinain state would do well - nay, flourish - in the rust belt or, even better, in the heartland of Canada itself. There, western norms and morals could be easily (well, more easily) integrated into that society.
I could have recommended the Saudi peninsula as a viable location (thereby earning extra Haj points along the way), but it's pretty evident that Muslim countries have not been very giving to their coreligionists in trouble.
3
Oh Tom, whatever has happened to your objective reporting? (Oh yeah, your blood oath to shaping Obama's great legacy). Israel would love to let go of land and go about its real passion of a safe and free Jewish State. And spend it's energy on innovation in water technology, biotech, music, arts. But the last two times Israel gave up land for peace, there was only war: Israel unilaterally stepped away from southern Lebanon. The result? Iran's Hezbollah eager for war and destruction of Israel. Then Israel unilaterally stepped away from Gaza. The result: Iran's Hamas continues its dedication to fundraising for the destruction of the Jewish State. Iran is the Mother and Father of hate, for Israel, for Jews, and for the United States.
40
Israel Unilaterally left Lebanon ?? Israel was bleeding from a 1,000 wounds. They could not to continue the loss of men and material because the people would throw out the government. Gaza !!! israel put them in a prison. Why did Hamas get control ? Israel radicalized the gazans with their blockade. Why did they leave? Sharon said it best " it's too expensive to hold" After Oslo Israeli's were dining in Ramallah. The Palestinians had hope, there was peace. then came Bibi and 200,000 settlers. Talk about hate and arrogance !! who exceeds the Israeli settlers !!!!
16
"Israel would love to let go of land and go about its real passion of a safe and free Jewish State."
There are lies and stretchers. This is a total fabrication of the history of Israel's actions in the area. Stretched beyond the realm of reality.
That's a lie.
There are lies and stretchers. This is a total fabrication of the history of Israel's actions in the area. Stretched beyond the realm of reality.
That's a lie.
17
That's because Israel really didn't "give up" land in Gaza. The retain control over the harbor, the airspace, the electricity, water etc. They have blockaded and prevented the Palestinians from making a living, all while kicking in doors in night-time raids. Doesn't sound so benevolent to me. And lets not forget the slaughter of the civilians in the last "war" where pea shooters were met by laser guided one ton missles
8
Yeats has become quite popular of late among NYT columnists. First Roger Cohen cites the beginning of The Second Coming, "The falcon cannot hear the falconer".
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/05/opinion/europes-huddled-masses.html
And now Thomas Friedman concludes his op-ed of doom with a paraphrase of the final apocalyptic lines of the poem.
However, as has been stated more than once: "Poetry makes nothing happen: it survives".
The same might be said for the Middle East.
Is the two-state solution dead? Perhaps, perhaps not. If Mr. Assad can seem to have more than 9 lives, I would not bury anything yet, and in this region of the world, even that or he who is buried, does not necessarily stay that way. We have known resurrection in Jerusalem.
And Mr. Friedman, it definitely is my grandfather's Israel. One of my late grandfathers helped to smuggle weapons from the US to Israel when the US had an embargo in place (see Shlomo Slonim, Political Science Quarterly 94 [1979]: 495-514]). (As my grandfather has been dead 60 years I'm sure he would not mind my publicizing his "crime").
And, God willing, my grandchildren's Israel will be mine. I doubt though that it will be your vision.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/05/opinion/europes-huddled-masses.html
And now Thomas Friedman concludes his op-ed of doom with a paraphrase of the final apocalyptic lines of the poem.
However, as has been stated more than once: "Poetry makes nothing happen: it survives".
The same might be said for the Middle East.
Is the two-state solution dead? Perhaps, perhaps not. If Mr. Assad can seem to have more than 9 lives, I would not bury anything yet, and in this region of the world, even that or he who is buried, does not necessarily stay that way. We have known resurrection in Jerusalem.
And Mr. Friedman, it definitely is my grandfather's Israel. One of my late grandfathers helped to smuggle weapons from the US to Israel when the US had an embargo in place (see Shlomo Slonim, Political Science Quarterly 94 [1979]: 495-514]). (As my grandfather has been dead 60 years I'm sure he would not mind my publicizing his "crime").
And, God willing, my grandchildren's Israel will be mine. I doubt though that it will be your vision.
19
There is a lot of realism in this article. Friedman risks offending a vast number of people by writing it; that is is rather obviously true only makes it more offensive to them.
That io good. It is long past time to stop spouting nonsense because it is what people want to hear.
I acknowledge that Friedman has taken risks and gone a long way with this. But he has also trimmed it and thrown in some propaganda points to sweeten it a bit for that audience.
The state that we must fear going rogue is Israel. Their Foreign Minister openly says he doesn't care what the rest of the world thinks. That's rogue. And they have nuclear weapons and a power dominance in their region to carry if off for awhile.
Some options for one state solution are to go rogue in a big way. Lieberman would. Netanyahu might. Once they do that, undoing it would be long and unpleasant for everyone involved. The Israel so many in the US admire would be gone.
That is what we must prevent now. We just took care of Iran, and only Israel and the Saudi Wahhabi fanatics don't like it. Notice who their friends are, all those "friends" hate each other too, and keep each other on their private list of "next problem."
As for Syria and the other destroyed states, they will heal once outside interests stop the active destruction of them. Friedman may lament the destruction, but he also advises and promotes more of it for each of them. He wanted more war including the US in each of them, Syria, Libya, all of them.
That io good. It is long past time to stop spouting nonsense because it is what people want to hear.
I acknowledge that Friedman has taken risks and gone a long way with this. But he has also trimmed it and thrown in some propaganda points to sweeten it a bit for that audience.
The state that we must fear going rogue is Israel. Their Foreign Minister openly says he doesn't care what the rest of the world thinks. That's rogue. And they have nuclear weapons and a power dominance in their region to carry if off for awhile.
Some options for one state solution are to go rogue in a big way. Lieberman would. Netanyahu might. Once they do that, undoing it would be long and unpleasant for everyone involved. The Israel so many in the US admire would be gone.
That is what we must prevent now. We just took care of Iran, and only Israel and the Saudi Wahhabi fanatics don't like it. Notice who their friends are, all those "friends" hate each other too, and keep each other on their private list of "next problem."
As for Syria and the other destroyed states, they will heal once outside interests stop the active destruction of them. Friedman may lament the destruction, but he also advises and promotes more of it for each of them. He wanted more war including the US in each of them, Syria, Libya, all of them.
26
You paraphrase Friedman, 'their foreign minister doesn't care what the rest of the world thinks'. However Lleberman is not the Foreign minister and he is not in Netanyahu's cabinet. The Foreign minister post is held by the PM. Quoting Lieberman these days is more like quoting Dick Cheney, than John Kerry-big difference.
Not true. Read Tom's columns of the last 8 years. The Middle East is a tar baby.
George II & his crew touched the 'tar baby'. Result: Thousands of dead & maimed Americans + millions of dollars in debt for unfunded wars.
Obama has not touched the tar baby, as tempting as it was at times.
With all the sharp minds in Israel, could they:
Read European history of 1618-1648 ascendancy of Protestant Reformation for solutions, along with some Arabs maybe;
Design weapons of mass extermination to use on we know who without blowing up the world in the process.
George II & his crew touched the 'tar baby'. Result: Thousands of dead & maimed Americans + millions of dollars in debt for unfunded wars.
Obama has not touched the tar baby, as tempting as it was at times.
With all the sharp minds in Israel, could they:
Read European history of 1618-1648 ascendancy of Protestant Reformation for solutions, along with some Arabs maybe;
Design weapons of mass extermination to use on we know who without blowing up the world in the process.
1
According to Wikipedia Israel has built an ICBM that can hit the East Coast of the US with nuclear bombs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jericho_(missile)
People have written about the "Samson Option" by which if overcome by an enemy Israel would bring the Temple down on both of them. Now it seems it's been extended to the US.
Why did the US let them do it? Why does no one mention it? Who is in charge here anyway?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jericho_(missile)
People have written about the "Samson Option" by which if overcome by an enemy Israel would bring the Temple down on both of them. Now it seems it's been extended to the US.
Why did the US let them do it? Why does no one mention it? Who is in charge here anyway?
6
News flash to Tom Friedman: the American people don't care about the Middle East.
This is only fair: the peoples of the middle East never really cared about the United States.
Israel is like the child in his sixties who is tired of getting advice from his elderly parents. So be it. Israel never took our advice anyway, so let it live with the consequences. Ditto the rest of the Middle East. We have already wasted too much American blood and treasure there, all for a bunch of ingrates.
ISIS is a problem, but it is not an existential threat to us. We have bigger fish to fry: Russia, China, and North Korea, not to mention the little problem of extreme economic inequality and rule by elites who want to maintain the status quo. (You can't blame elites, it is only natural they wish to cling to power. But that does not mean we the people have to play along forever.)
It is time for real change, and that is why Bernie Sanders will be the next President.
This is only fair: the peoples of the middle East never really cared about the United States.
Israel is like the child in his sixties who is tired of getting advice from his elderly parents. So be it. Israel never took our advice anyway, so let it live with the consequences. Ditto the rest of the Middle East. We have already wasted too much American blood and treasure there, all for a bunch of ingrates.
ISIS is a problem, but it is not an existential threat to us. We have bigger fish to fry: Russia, China, and North Korea, not to mention the little problem of extreme economic inequality and rule by elites who want to maintain the status quo. (You can't blame elites, it is only natural they wish to cling to power. But that does not mean we the people have to play along forever.)
It is time for real change, and that is why Bernie Sanders will be the next President.
334
Loved your comments couldn't agree more..... that said....... we should not give up on the ME. We should keep trying to find non military solutions. Sure hope a democrat (preferably Bernie) is our next POTUS.
3
Who amongst the current aspirants for the presidency speaks to the American voter about these issues with the informed wisdom that each commentator here offers?
3
"Israel never took our advice anyway, so let it live with the consequences. ".....Tell me TimBal....would you trust someone else with the safety of your family...when they really are only concerned with their own political agendas???
The Israeli's like every other country ...can ONLY TRuly trust themselves...because if you're honest it's their lives in their hands NOT ours!!!
The Israeli's like every other country ...can ONLY TRuly trust themselves...because if you're honest it's their lives in their hands NOT ours!!!
3
A chilling dose of reality that has been lacking in all the presidential campaign noise. Same as it ever was.
Thank you, Mr. Friedman.
I can think of only one candidate who has any idea of what we are facing in the Middle East and the rest of the world. I need not speak her name.
Thank you, Mr. Friedman.
I can think of only one candidate who has any idea of what we are facing in the Middle East and the rest of the world. I need not speak her name.
50
And we Americans would never learn "what we are facing in the Middle East and the rest of the world" from that candidate because she would LIE about it. Why? Because it's just what she does.
When you are so cruel and crass as to look wives, parents, and children in their eyes and mouth words like "we're gonna get the sucker who made the video that caused your loved ones' deaths" simply to cover your and your boss' shortcomings in ensuring their safety, you are totally unfit to hold any office governing "the land of the free and the home of the brave." GO AWAY!
When you are so cruel and crass as to look wives, parents, and children in their eyes and mouth words like "we're gonna get the sucker who made the video that caused your loved ones' deaths" simply to cover your and your boss' shortcomings in ensuring their safety, you are totally unfit to hold any office governing "the land of the free and the home of the brave." GO AWAY!
1
"I need not speak her name."
Libya Jane? One of the few politicos too dim to learn from Dubya's I'll-considered Iraq venture? The statesman with the profound judgment that a server in her basement would be as secure a repository for the email traffic of the Secretary of State as would be a government server complete with a phalanx of federal IT and security experts? The woman who never admits an error, choosing instead to recalibrate her narrative to fit new revelations?
Yeah Ralph, she's just what the doctor ordered.
Libya Jane? One of the few politicos too dim to learn from Dubya's I'll-considered Iraq venture? The statesman with the profound judgment that a server in her basement would be as secure a repository for the email traffic of the Secretary of State as would be a government server complete with a phalanx of federal IT and security experts? The woman who never admits an error, choosing instead to recalibrate her narrative to fit new revelations?
Yeah Ralph, she's just what the doctor ordered.
1
And she will face it with the same old tired solutions that pour gasoline on the fire
Assume it is just like you say,
And then on a nightmarish day
Boehner invites 'Yahu
With a Treaty in view
Address Congress, to O's dismay.
Our POTUS, our Leader, our Chief,
Made mock of within his own Fief,
It seems it's the Season
For open High Treason,
With no way of getting relief.
In this atmosphere who can think
Of a Middle East, at the brink,
Empty suits debating,
A POTUS they're hating,
And hopes for solutions all sink.
And then on a nightmarish day
Boehner invites 'Yahu
With a Treaty in view
Address Congress, to O's dismay.
Our POTUS, our Leader, our Chief,
Made mock of within his own Fief,
It seems it's the Season
For open High Treason,
With no way of getting relief.
In this atmosphere who can think
Of a Middle East, at the brink,
Empty suits debating,
A POTUS they're hating,
And hopes for solutions all sink.
70
How simple for a columnist in the US
To say that israel's a mess -
Thom, try leading a state
in a land amidst hate
We await your exalted success.
To say that israel's a mess -
Thom, try leading a state
in a land amidst hate
We await your exalted success.
5
Now, you see, I’m not sure that Tom isn’t about as wrong on this issue as someone can be. It may be as he writes that the world will be consumed with how to resolve the Israeli-Palestinian question; but given that it’s been hanging fire for over 40 years and we appear further from a just resolution than we’ve ever been, the world may just give up on it and concern itself solely with ISIS, the Dow and unacceptable air pollution over Delhi and Beijing.
How did we get here? Frankly I blame the Palestinians generally and Yasser Arafat specifically. Arafat had a chance at a just two-state solution but he rejected it, afraid that if he engaged Israel seriously over it Hamas would assassinate him. Despite the rejection, some believe that’s exactly how he met his end anyway. Today the religious zealots have the influence in Israel, it’s become a matter of Judea and Samaria, and it’s just bad luck that 2.5 million Arabs live on land Israelis claim as a biblical right – Palestinian bad luck.
But the deplorable state of the Middle East largely has to do with an American worldview that disengages serious U.S. influence from global affairs unless a gun is held to our heads, and then only to the extent that we can bribe the gunman just enough to temporarily lower the gun just enough. Neither Tom nor we have any business complaining about this sad outcome: we did it to ourselves.
How did we get here? Frankly I blame the Palestinians generally and Yasser Arafat specifically. Arafat had a chance at a just two-state solution but he rejected it, afraid that if he engaged Israel seriously over it Hamas would assassinate him. Despite the rejection, some believe that’s exactly how he met his end anyway. Today the religious zealots have the influence in Israel, it’s become a matter of Judea and Samaria, and it’s just bad luck that 2.5 million Arabs live on land Israelis claim as a biblical right – Palestinian bad luck.
But the deplorable state of the Middle East largely has to do with an American worldview that disengages serious U.S. influence from global affairs unless a gun is held to our heads, and then only to the extent that we can bribe the gunman just enough to temporarily lower the gun just enough. Neither Tom nor we have any business complaining about this sad outcome: we did it to ourselves.
27
"we did it to ourselves." Really? Have you read Richard Clark's books? Bush-Cheney disengaged the issue, totally, and probably to the lasting failure in that part of the world, at a critical time.
Sure, the list of culpable actors around this issue is long. But a few truly incompetent actors in critical places (read Bibi-Bush-Cheney) own the proximate failure, corruptly. Aided by nut-jobs in both countries.
Sure, the list of culpable actors around this issue is long. But a few truly incompetent actors in critical places (read Bibi-Bush-Cheney) own the proximate failure, corruptly. Aided by nut-jobs in both countries.
3
We don't really care enough. Except for a few Anglo nations (Canada, GB, Australia), we use our friends merely as proxies in our cold war based fights. We don't pick friends we have much in common with, whose ideologies and cultures we'd like to help spread. We just pick countries where we can try out our shiny new weapons. If Israel continues the genocide-for-Palestinians course, we aren't going to get upset about it, and as much as Europe complains and moans, doesn't want to buy Israeli products and has a subculture of Muslims who whine about Israel, no European country is going to bestir itself as Israel commits its hundred year, slo mo genocide of the Palestinians. Even nations next to Israel - Jordan and Egypt - don't care that much whether the Palestinians live or die, as long as they don't need too many resources from Jordan and Egypt while doing so.
3
Richard, you might be reminded that the settlements are illegal. Every nation in the world agrees. You can call it a biblical right, but its hogwash
2
Why has the world chosen the 1967 borders for Israel?
Israel has several other borders after winning defensive wars of annihilation against the attacking surrounding Arab Nations and their Israeli Arab (now Palestinian) allies in the 1940's, 1950's, 1970's etc.
So, again, why has the world chosen indefensible 1967 borders for Israel?
We're all awaiting an answer which recognizes Israels right to exist peacefully in a real bad neighborhood which has never recognized ever Israel's right to exist, not for millennium.
So Mr. Friedman, what you're asking people to 'get ready for' in the middle east isn't really new or news to any Israeli's or cognizant Jews, it's just an extension of anti Jewish fervor, antisemitism and now anti Zionism, expressed for thousands of years in Europe and the Middle East nothing new.