As the person with creative control of The Cosby Show, Bill Cosby intended for audiences to believe that the show was a reflection of his own family life, and THAT was the appeal that catapulted Bill Cosby to superstardom and kept him there. And, while we should have been mindful that Bill Cosby spent more time on set creating an image of the ideal family life than living it daily in his personal life, the show did not become Number 1 because of its mere artistic or entertainment value. We all watched because it resonated with our very core. We believed it so much that we believed that Bill Cosby and Dr. Huxtable were one in the same. Bill Cosby led us deeper down that rabbit hole of deceit by publicly, and vehemently, expressing his political views, which cemented his place in our minds as a moral authority and father figure we had grown to love and admire. Dr. Huxtable would have agreed with Cosby's argument that emphasized the importance of personal responsibility in our youth today. For those of us who are struggling to separate the art from the artist, this has nothing to do with any failure on our part but everything to do with being human: we believed in Bill Cosby for the last 30 years, when he really was just playing a role. That's a long time to shake off unscathed.
As the person with creative control of The Cosby Show, Bill Cosby intended for audiences to believe that the show was a reflection of his own family life, and THAT appeal catapulted Bill Cosby to superstardom and kept him there. And, while we should have been mindful that Bill Cosby spent more time on set creating an image of the ideal family life than living it daily in his personal life, the show did not become Number 1 because of its mere artistic or entertainment value. We all watched because it resonated with our very core. We believed it so much that we believed that Bill Cosby and Dr. Huxtable were one in the same. Bill Cosby led us deeper down that rabbit hole of deceit by publicly, and vehemently, expressing his political views, which cemented his place in our minds as a moral authority and father figure we had grown to love and admire. Dr. Huxtable would have agreed with Cosby's argument that emphasized the importance of personal responsibility in our youth today. For those of us who are struggling to separate the art from the artist, this has nothing to do with any failure on our part but everything to do with being human: we believed in Bill Cosby for the last 30 years, when he really was just playing a role. That's a long time to shake off and move on unscathed.
As the person with creative control of The Cosby Show, Bill Cosby intended for audiences to believe that the show was a reflection of his own family life, and THAT was the appeal that catapulted Bill Cosby to superstardom and kept him there. And, while we should have been mindful that Bill Cosby spent more time on set creating an image of the ideal family life than living it daily in his personal life, the show did not become Number 1 because of its mere artistic or entertainment value. We all watched because it resonated with our very core. We believed it so much that we believed that Bill Cosby and Dr. Huxtable were one in the same. Bill Cosby led us deeper down that rabbit hole of deceit by publicly, and vehemently, expressing his political views, which cemented his place in our minds as a moral authority and father figure we had grown to love and admire. Dr. Huxtable would have agreed with Cosby's argument that emphasized the importance of personal responsibility in our youth today. For those of us who are struggling to separate the art from the artist, this has nothing to do with any failure on our part but everything to do with being human: we believed in Bill Cosby for the last 30 years, when he really was just playing a role. That's a long time to shake off and move on unscathed.
I'm not sure about the particular case he is being tried on, but I think there is a lot of evidence that he was a serial rapist (can all these women with nothing to gain and much to lose be lying - could be, but I very much doubt it). Still, it has nothing to do with his work. I was a big OJ Simpson fan when I was a kid. I don't doubt he murdered his ex-wife, but I still am wowed when I see an old clip of him. Caravaggio is one of my favorite painters but he may have been a murderer. And so on and so on.
Hi Rachel,,, I am a generation older than you (white) and I was a HUGE fan from I Spy and have all Cosby's comedy albums. I even speak and phrase things I mimicked from his albums. I was a stutterer and i think I used his rhythm to create my own pattern of speaking. I had heard rumors of his sexual needs and antics for many years (but never the drugging and forcing parts). I am as devastated as you. I know these were TV and Media characters but its a huge hole in my life too,
1
As Aldous Huxley once said, “The trouble with fiction is that it makes too much sense. Reality never makes sense.”
2
like everyone else, i grieve for the loss of Dr. Huxtable. i also grieve for the loss of bill cosby, a comedian that has been loved for generations. i do not grieve that he was caught, and is being prosecuted. i think his actions are unforgivable.. but please, please, please... let us not bury Dr. Huxtable with him. i would still watch a re-run now and then. this ficticious tv character has come to represent someone important to america. let's not bury him, along with the actor who portrayed him.
Bill Cosby, like all successful entertainers, is an accomplished pretender who appears to his audience as he intends, not necessarily as you would find him at home, out of the limelight. It happens that people who are in the habit of concealing parts of themselves which they know others would not like are also accomplished pretenders.
Cosby has been one of the greatest entertainers in the history of television. In addition, he was able to help reduce racial discrimination against African Americans in the mass media in his roles as an entertainer, making him an historical figure, too.
The disclosure of his behaviors towards women over the years is disappointing, not the least because of the persona he had developed and projected over so many years. We are forced to accept that a man who appeared to be a great man, was also a mean and self centered man who is likely a misogynist with a core of darkness that nobody understands.
Cosby has been one of the greatest entertainers in the history of television. In addition, he was able to help reduce racial discrimination against African Americans in the mass media in his roles as an entertainer, making him an historical figure, too.
The disclosure of his behaviors towards women over the years is disappointing, not the least because of the persona he had developed and projected over so many years. We are forced to accept that a man who appeared to be a great man, was also a mean and self centered man who is likely a misogynist with a core of darkness that nobody understands.
I appreciate the writer's effort to honor Bill Cosby's contribution to raising the quality of TV programming between the 1960s to 1980s. She could have expanded on his accomplishments as well in such areas as donating millions to black higher education and the arts.
Going further, if this reporter truly wanted to show respect for the value of Cosby in her life, she might included a few observations on media fairness in his current situation: 1) People are presumed innocent until proven guilty, even celebrities. 2) the burden of proof is on the accuser and the prosecutor. 3) Wealthy celebrities are often targets of outrageous claims. 4) Many of the accusations seem to have glaring flaws and inconsistencies. 5) In context of the times, Cosby merely engaged in acts of infidelity in the free love/Playboy club hopping culture of the 1960s & 1970s.
In closing, let's not be so quick to persecute Dr. Huxtable based on tabloid say-so.
Going further, if this reporter truly wanted to show respect for the value of Cosby in her life, she might included a few observations on media fairness in his current situation: 1) People are presumed innocent until proven guilty, even celebrities. 2) the burden of proof is on the accuser and the prosecutor. 3) Wealthy celebrities are often targets of outrageous claims. 4) Many of the accusations seem to have glaring flaws and inconsistencies. 5) In context of the times, Cosby merely engaged in acts of infidelity in the free love/Playboy club hopping culture of the 1960s & 1970s.
In closing, let's not be so quick to persecute Dr. Huxtable based on tabloid say-so.
1
Your denial strikes me as an alarming display of delusion.
1
I would counter that your acceptance of these allegations is a display of presumption. I've heard the old sayings, where there's smoke there's fire; a woman must be believed, and how could one doubt when there are so many accusers...
But having witnessed so anonymous figures make charges of sexual misconduct and see them fall apart under impartial questioning -- just think of the recent Rolling Stone's debacle -- I've learned to resist the herd mentality. Let's see how it plays out. I believe Cosby.
But having witnessed so anonymous figures make charges of sexual misconduct and see them fall apart under impartial questioning -- just think of the recent Rolling Stone's debacle -- I've learned to resist the herd mentality. Let's see how it plays out. I believe Cosby.
You are right about the rush to judgment that follows media reports of scandals about celebrated people. But the facts as they are do not add up to such a situation. His admissions to the kinds of behaviors he did in his relations with women, the variety and number of accusers reporting treatment conforming with his admission, and repetitions of the reactions to the accusations of his lawyers tend to disprove it's all just lies cooked up to take money from him. Good looking, wealthy, highly intelligent, people with excellent social skills don't have to resort to the means he used to seduce people, especially older mature people who have lots of experience, unless they have a obsession to act that way.
1
As a child of the 80s I grew up believing that Mr Cosby and Dr Huxtable were the same person. It is very shameful what Cosby did, and now as a grown up of 37 I of course know Dr Huxtable was a character, as a child I couldnt differentiate the man from the character because they were both so upstanding and kind, I thought that Cosby was playing a character very much like himself in real life. I feel betrayed that such a great family man turned into a criminal such that Dr Huxtable is now a criminal too. I hope the Cosby Show comes back.
Read every wonderful sentence of your piece. It so reflected how I felt about this show. As a young man living in South Africa in the bad old days, it was refreshing to see how far ahead America was in showing how blacks could and should live. Since then, Bill Cosby's troubles and those of America's trigger-happy police have reminded us that it was a fictional world.
1
Interesting how the rest of the world is able to see this problem we have with "trigger-happy police." Yet many in America don't see it or simply don't care. This has been going on for decades, the only difference now is everyone walks around with a camera. Now a days if a police officer shoots an unarmed person and lies about it, which happens way too much, there's a very good chance somebody out there will produce a video of what REALLY happened. Hopefully America's new president will help do something about this problem...
As a 40-something caucasian male who grew up admiring Cosby and appeciated the symbolism of his place in popular culture, this piece speaks for many, including us who've harbored similar feelings in light of the allegations, yet haven't felt properly qualified to express them. Even if you took Cosby at his word, and assumed the pills and sex with numerous women were consensual (which looks extremely doubtful at this point), this would still be someone the fictional Cliff Huxtable would have detested. I'll just add one thing: lost in all this is the Cosby's downfall (clearly his own doing) on the music world: Cliff Huxtable's praising of Miles and Coltrane, along with the real Cosby's presenting Herbie Hamcock and others at jazz festivals and events, and recruiting guest stars including BB King, Stevie Wonder (both on The Cosby Show) and Coltrane bassist Reggie Workman (on Cosby) etc...help increase awareness of high quality music and increase its presence in pop culture where it was desperately needed (as it is today, even more so) . Those of us who love music and make it for a living (I'm a professional guitarist) have been doing our own mourning. We've lost a true advocate who sadly has no one to blame but himself.
1
I, too, looked forward every Thursday night to the Cosby show. I enjoyed the great humor, the varied story lines, and the solid family values portrayed by a black family. (I am white). I, too, have been very disappointed by the disparity between Cliff Huxtable and Bill Cosby.
2
Reading your little story I can only say that the 70's comedies you mention were not merely caricatures of african-american live. They had much more to them then you port raided in your small story. Maybe the deeper meaning did escape you. Maybe another reason Bill Cosby was that successful with his show (building on the ones before).
2
It's not possible for me to empathize fully with Ms Swarns, as I'm not black, but I can sympathize with her. I watched many episodes of "The Cosby Show", and every episode of the original "I Spy", which ran when I was a child and was must-see TV for me and my family. I owned a few of Mr Cosby's humor albums, e.g., "To Russell, My Brother, Whom I Slept With", and listened to them until the vinyl was ruined. I enjoyed his work very much, and even back then I understood, however imperfectly, the significance of a supremely talented, proudly black man who broke through the color divide of those benighted times to appeal to suburban whites like me and most, if not all, of my friends and their families. One of the things I learned in childhood, in the terribly harsh reality of the '60s, was that all too often we lose our heroes: to age, or illness, or misadventure, or, most tragically, to human evil. But Mr Cosby did not suffer any of those perils: he destroyed himself. In so doing he brought grief like Ms Swarns's to millions, and, still worse, allowed unreconstructed bigots of then and now to say "I always knew he was no good," or worse. To those who grieve the loss of Cliff Huxtable, or the brilliant, iconoclastic Alexander Scott, or Fat Albert, or any of Mr Cosby's great creations, my condolences. But, to paraphrase the late Richard Dysart, Leland McKenzie of "L. A. Law", apparently Mr Cosby was never actually a good guy. He just played one on TV.
2
I was a fatherless child in the 90s. Watching Cliff and his family helped me to formulate what sort of home I wanted. He was an onscreen father to me. My heart is broken. May Jesus forgive him and heal the many victims.
1
powerfully and beautifully written. You enjoyed Dr. Huxtable through your youth and adulthood and let that beautiful piece continue to resonate. Bill Cosby has lived his life as a violent predator. Tragic - for the victims who were also enamored.
1
During my formative years, Steve Allen's 'Meeting Of The Minds' series helped me to begin breaking thru my closed-loop, intensively parochial training. (Finding copies of those programs is nearly impossible, esp in today's worse than mundane 'reality' TV environment.) Later, during high-pressure jobs, Leonard Nimoy's Spock rational responses to Kirk's frequent emotional excesses (& ham acting) helped develop
resilience. Cosby shows us that acting out
script writers' & directors' directions is often
easier than writing the script & directing one's
own life. But his TV accomplishments should
be neither denigrated nor denied him.
resilience. Cosby shows us that acting out
script writers' & directors' directions is often
easier than writing the script & directing one's
own life. But his TV accomplishments should
be neither denigrated nor denied him.
2
The separation of art and artist is so hard. I have this problem with Woody Allen. With author Patrick O'Brian. I want to think only of the art but the artist interferes. So sad.
This is a travesty not only for Mr. Cosby but for all of the characters of his show and the destruction of future earnings. The accusations against him, real or imagined, have turned into a witch hunt, discrediting everything this man has done in his life...his talent, is relationship with children, his honorary degrees and awards and now the destruction of a beloved television show that was considered America's family, all with no trial. There are innumerable wealthy white men in this country who have been less than kind to women; in show business, the corporate world and politics and who have more recently been disgraced through sex acts on line, in public bathrooms, and worse. These men have gone on with their lives intact, not to mention the hundreds of priests and other members of the clergy and children's service groups who have molested and destroyed lives of children and they are going on normal. The women who accused Mr. Cosby seeking his celebrity, attention, and/or his power and money and they are complicit. These accusations happened many years ago and some at the Playboy Mansion. Any young woman who goes to a "playboy" mansion should be smart enough to know why she's there. I do not condone whatever nefarious acts Mr. Cosby has done but there is a racist faction behind all of this to destroy a once treasured part of American history and it's intentional.
1
Sadly Mr cosby did this to himself. He had all that but committed criminal acts and doing so, put himself and his career at risk. It's sad but he has no one but himself to hold responsible for his actions.
1
"Go back to Sept. 20, 1984, when Dr. Huxtable walked into the kitchen of his Brooklyn brownstone and introduced white audiences to one of the first black middle-class families to appear on prime-time TV."
The family was NOT middle class. Geesh! Cliff is a doctor and Claire is an attorney and they live in a brownstone in Brooklyn Heights.
Remember the episode where Theo comes home and tells his Dad, Dr. Huxtable...
Theo: Dad...the kids at school are making fun of me, saying I'm rich.
Cliff: That's not true.
Theo: Huh?
Cliff: WE aren't rich. I'm rich!
Cosby rejects Theo (ha!) but makes his point to America.
And I still remember where I was when I heard that line. On the couch watching with my parents (all of us white).
And it was softly...shocking.
As MY family was middle class.
The family was NOT middle class. Geesh! Cliff is a doctor and Claire is an attorney and they live in a brownstone in Brooklyn Heights.
Remember the episode where Theo comes home and tells his Dad, Dr. Huxtable...
Theo: Dad...the kids at school are making fun of me, saying I'm rich.
Cliff: That's not true.
Theo: Huh?
Cliff: WE aren't rich. I'm rich!
Cosby rejects Theo (ha!) but makes his point to America.
And I still remember where I was when I heard that line. On the couch watching with my parents (all of us white).
And it was softly...shocking.
As MY family was middle class.
Ozzie and Harriet were far from the normal family they portrayed on television and they were one of the first families on television By all accounts, Harriet Nelson was a complete control freak and a nasty piece of work. Desi and Lucy might have seemed like a couple in love, but in reality Desi was a skirtchaser. We might want to believe that Rob and Laura Petrie had a perfect life, but the reality is that Dick Van Dyke was an alcoholic. Finding out that Dr. Huxtable was played by a serial rapist is more shocking, by far, than those disclosures, but still speaks to our willing delusion about the actors we elevate into American royalty.
1
I sympathize with Ms. Swarns distress. It's tough to see a childhood icon toppled, especially in such a horrifying and degrading way.
But the issues that have now come to light surrounding Cosby in no way diminish the topical impact of the show when it was first aired, on families of color and the general viewing public, as well as on the larger cultural stage. Those changes cannot be erased.
It is frequently necessary to separate the artist from the art.
But the issues that have now come to light surrounding Cosby in no way diminish the topical impact of the show when it was first aired, on families of color and the general viewing public, as well as on the larger cultural stage. Those changes cannot be erased.
It is frequently necessary to separate the artist from the art.
2
Most sexual predators use their fame, authority, power, etc. as a means of capturing victims...think Jerry Sandusky, Jared Fogle, and all the church clergy. Bill Cosby is really no better, just much more famous.
1
I live in Philadelphia, graduated from Temple University, and was also a Cosby Show fan (my sister raised her kids with the attitude, "What would Claire Huxtable do?"). I am struggling with my feelings about him, like many Temple alumni are, like many Philadelphia-area residents are, like many fans are, wondering what to do with the admiration and pride you had for the university spokesman and trustee, the representative of our city at events such as the Penn Relays, and not just the star, but the creator, of a favorite show.
I see interviews where actors prove to be jerks, narcissists, right-wing lunatics, cold or just weird. I don't care if you are, if you are a talented artist.
But Bill Cosby is more than just a TV guy. And his actions have damaged everything he touched. It is very sad to see someone you admired fall, and in a way, as a woman, that is so completely reprehensible.
I see interviews where actors prove to be jerks, narcissists, right-wing lunatics, cold or just weird. I don't care if you are, if you are a talented artist.
But Bill Cosby is more than just a TV guy. And his actions have damaged everything he touched. It is very sad to see someone you admired fall, and in a way, as a woman, that is so completely reprehensible.
1
My own mother and father both were actors at one point. And the public seems destined to misunderstand the art of acting, even the art of comedy. People do not become actors to portray themselves. They are playing roles. So stop with conflating actors with their parts. Anyone who knows an actor or even a comedian will explain that these people are often troubled and bear almost no resemblance to the characters they portray. This is why acting is an art. It may be method, but it is still a craft. And actors are often people with issues (not that we all don't have issues), but the art is part of transforming into someone idealized or conversely reviled. Cosby was a wonderful comic actor and his personal sleaziness and craziness doesn't change that. It might be why he was so good at "performing" a cultural icon that we all treasured. He was a comforting image of racial progress for whites and blacks. Reality has a funny way of reasserting itself, and it tends to be more complex, with many nuances, some wonderful like your family story, and some a bit darker, like Cosby's.
4
This is just the flip side of the phenomenon of TV and the media trying to get you to believe that some random actor or actress has some sage political advice which you should hear; after all, she sings songs really well, or looks good on TV, or you know her from some movie. In fact, the comments of some random stranger on the street will do as well in pointing you towards Truth and Correct Behavior. We also dont see OJ in the replay films anymore and eventually all the media personalities of our youth, or later, disappear voluntarily or involuntarily. The commentators have been trying to separate the works of the Nazi-sympathizer writers, scientists and philosophers from their hateful political acts for decades, and the discussion goes on.
3
I can echo the author's points here and struggle with emotions. As silly as it is, TV makes an impression on you when you are coming into adulthood. Like books and films it helps you understand good and bad and find your own moral compass a bit. The tone of the show was such that if Theo and his pals had tried anything to woo or cajole (let alone drug) girls into sex, Cosby's alter ego Dr. Huxtable would've kicked their butts and Mrs. Huxtable would've taught them a lesson on how to respect women. So when the co-creator and star turns out to be the exact opposite of this character it stings on many levels. I myself met Bill about 10 years ago at a large corporate event. He was paid to be there and backstage was unfriendly and unwelcoming to all. When he went on stage to wild applause he was good old Cos. He did the dentist routine and everything. The guy has many talents but his biggest is deception.
5
i am grieving not just for the Cosby show (i wasn't a huge fan, having come from a large family, and annoyed by how often cliff wanted his kids out of the house), but i do grieve for the Bill Cosby of standup, who made me die laughing with his descriptions of his neighborhood and the people in it. i was a huge fan of I, Spy and felt it was Cosby's character who made the show and situations work. i have never conflated an actor with his character (having been an actor for 20 years) but Cosby was also an educator, a contributor to the education of black youth and the thought that he might have performed some of his rape/seduction/drugging behavior on people who admired him and wanted to emulate him, makes me sick.
4
Thank you for raising this aspect of the Cosby "issue." I think other posters miss the point when lecturing that the actor is not the man. The thing I grieve for, as a middle aged white guy, is the loss of an icon who helped move us closer to a colorblind society (still a long way to go for sure). The Huxtables helped destroy stereotypes while highlighting the unique and invaluable attributes of black life in 20th Century America. I don't grieve for Cosby's personal misfortune (he is a criminal) but for the way in which his crimes will always tarnish the show that helped us move forward.
4
Bill Cosby was proof that a safe black man existed. Society can now comfortably cling to the every black man is a rapist trope. Because if we can't trust Cos, then who? I wish I could say that this only reflects badly on Mr. Cosby, but it doesn't work that way in America where black people are all lumped together. I have a son, brothers, nephews, cousins, all wonderful men whose credibility is already assumed less than that of white men. Thanks for making their lives a little bit tougher, Bill Cosby.
4
What's really sad is that a lot of other people--actors, writers, producers--put their lives and hard work into this series. It's really a major achievement that a show about an all-black family made it to prime time in America when it did. Regardless of how horrible a person Bill Cosby may be, those other people don't deserve to have their work marginalized. Those other people didn't do anything wrong. In fact, you might even say they did everything right..
1
Bill Cosby will always be "Dr. Heathcliff Huxtable", but of his over twenty-four honorary doctorates--most of them are quietly being "rescinded"--at least according to Wikipedia, so I guess Academia has issued their verdict--class dismissed.
One of the first lessons taught in middle school is that a celebrity is not necessarily a hero. How sad that this author missed that lesson.
2
Rachel,
When the first accounts of sexual assault came to the fore, I too, felt a sense of grief. I listened to his records "way back then." I remember and still love his "Noah" routine, delivered with unparalleled timing and talent.
It is painful to feel that art has been sullied by its human creator.
Perhaps it is best to treasure the art, forgive the imperfect human and recognize that the person is now being held accountable for the behavior and choices he made.
When the first accounts of sexual assault came to the fore, I too, felt a sense of grief. I listened to his records "way back then." I remember and still love his "Noah" routine, delivered with unparalleled timing and talent.
It is painful to feel that art has been sullied by its human creator.
Perhaps it is best to treasure the art, forgive the imperfect human and recognize that the person is now being held accountable for the behavior and choices he made.
1
Katherine: Thanks for taking the time to write. I am the New York Times columnist who wrote this piece. I read your comment and I hope you'll read the article again. My piece was about Cliff Huxtable, the character, and how much he meant to me; and about my fears that he is tarnished by Bill Cosby. Basically, I'm asking: When the artist is disgraced, what happens to the art? I think the article makes it clear that Cliff Huxtable was my hero; not Bill Cosby.
6
I re-read your article and stand by my previous statement. A character and his/her actor are not eponymous. Are we to weep for Gregory Peck (well, he IS dead) and never again watch "To Kill a Mockingbird" because Atticus turned out to be a bigot in "Go Set a Watchman"?
There are many comments here referring to Cosby the "rapist". While it is unpopular NOT to try people in the press in our current society, I would point out that Mr. Cosby has yet to be convicted, in either a criminal or a civil court of ... anything. He has at the very least, by his own admission, been guilty of serial immorality and on that basis alone, he has let down the millions of us who thought of Cosby, not Huxtable, as a man of great moral character, someone we felt we had come to know and could trust implicitly to "do the right thing." It has come as a shock to learn that, the man who hypothesized on the negative effect wearing pants well below the waistband had on black youth, was in fact someone who could, at the very least, cheat regularly on his wife and, if he is in fact convicted in either a criminal or civil court, be guilty of much worse. I am not so disappointed that I cannot watch repeats of the Huxtables on Hulu and still laugh and empathize (as a dad, my favorite episode is the Thanksgiving that Cliff must go out to the store repeatedly on a stormy Turkey day) with the vicissitudes that all of us with families, black, white or any other color, deal with on a daily basis. The creator of the Huxtable family has given us a great gift in showing how extensive our commonality is. The man has, unfortunately, let all of us down.
1
I don't miss Dr. Huxtable much. That show was on as I started grad school and I didn't watch much of it. But I do miss Bill Cosby.
My first memories of him date back to the old black and white TV show 'I Spy'. My white middle class family watched every week back in the 60s when there truly were no black characters on TV except those who filled typical stereotypes. He also did White Owl cigar ads in those days when tobacco could still be advertised on TV.
Then of course came 'The Fat Albert Show' on Saturday morning cartoons when I was a bit older. In high school one of my teachers used to bring her old Bill Cosby comedy LPs to class once in a while to reward us for good behavior, and even though I was listening to George Carlin and Cheech and Chong I still found his comedy fun to listen to.
I realize this will bring on accusations of racism when actually it's quite the opposite, but honestly, I didn't even see Bill Cosby as black because he so successfully played against the stereotypes. Flip Wilson emphasized his blackness in his hilarious comedy so I was somewhat more conscious of it with him. So did Red Foxx. But it didn't matter-- they were doing as much to break down the walls between us in those smoldering years as Cosby was.
Now, sadly, I believe the women. Cosby is a scary monster, a predator who lurked in our midst in plain sight, like the BBC's Jimmy Savile. So sad the death of trust and innocence, so sorry for all the victims, and for all our gullibility.
My first memories of him date back to the old black and white TV show 'I Spy'. My white middle class family watched every week back in the 60s when there truly were no black characters on TV except those who filled typical stereotypes. He also did White Owl cigar ads in those days when tobacco could still be advertised on TV.
Then of course came 'The Fat Albert Show' on Saturday morning cartoons when I was a bit older. In high school one of my teachers used to bring her old Bill Cosby comedy LPs to class once in a while to reward us for good behavior, and even though I was listening to George Carlin and Cheech and Chong I still found his comedy fun to listen to.
I realize this will bring on accusations of racism when actually it's quite the opposite, but honestly, I didn't even see Bill Cosby as black because he so successfully played against the stereotypes. Flip Wilson emphasized his blackness in his hilarious comedy so I was somewhat more conscious of it with him. So did Red Foxx. But it didn't matter-- they were doing as much to break down the walls between us in those smoldering years as Cosby was.
Now, sadly, I believe the women. Cosby is a scary monster, a predator who lurked in our midst in plain sight, like the BBC's Jimmy Savile. So sad the death of trust and innocence, so sorry for all the victims, and for all our gullibility.
2
A big part of emotional maturity is separating fact from fiction. Those who get stuck, or fail, need serious help. Apparently this is not even limited to fans. For example, John Wayne the actor ended up thinking he was JOHN WAYNE the role. And then there's Ronald Reagan, who was convinced that he actually experienced reality as represented by many film roles. He even convinced an Israeli PM that he once helped liberate a German death camp, even though it was not even a movie role and he never left LA during WW2.
Why couldn't fictional Dr. Huxtable also like sex and be a sexual human being? The question really is, was Bill Cosby a sexual predator, or just a kind of typical hollywood empowered film star?
His character in the show was virtually asexual, was that supposed to be realistic? People are confusing a fictional ideal character with a human being. Yes, sure, the later Bill Cosby took on the mantel of respectability assuming his fictional character long after the show was over, which was a big mistake.
I don't know much of the circumstances of Bill Cosby's dalliances with various starlets, but most people knew he was married, and they were invited up to the guys home, at night with no one else around. They were expecting a few hours of, "Scrabble?"
I see mostly male gender stereotyping, where evil men, prey on innocent women who just want to get ahead by getting some acting advice. Can I go way out on a limb here and say that this is a fairly common occurrence, "in the business?"
Cosby was a great ground breaking comedian, a really good, underrated actor, and, ultimately, a bit of hypocrite.
His character in the show was virtually asexual, was that supposed to be realistic? People are confusing a fictional ideal character with a human being. Yes, sure, the later Bill Cosby took on the mantel of respectability assuming his fictional character long after the show was over, which was a big mistake.
I don't know much of the circumstances of Bill Cosby's dalliances with various starlets, but most people knew he was married, and they were invited up to the guys home, at night with no one else around. They were expecting a few hours of, "Scrabble?"
I see mostly male gender stereotyping, where evil men, prey on innocent women who just want to get ahead by getting some acting advice. Can I go way out on a limb here and say that this is a fairly common occurrence, "in the business?"
Cosby was a great ground breaking comedian, a really good, underrated actor, and, ultimately, a bit of hypocrite.
It's not just Cosby - so many artists whose work we love turn out to be very flawed human beings. I think it is difficult sometimes to know how to separate the artist from his or her art. (I wonder if we'll ever know the truth about Michael Jackson.) As someone else on this thread said, humans are complex - and maybe particularly those humans who make it their life's work to try on other identities or express themselves through the arts.
1
Are the other actors from the show going to SUE Cosby for the lost residuals? They should still be making money from reruns, but now they won't.
Beautiful and important awareness of a once very meaningful American. I knew Bill Cosby in the 1970s, before his Huxtable era. Bill met frequently with young African American writers and educators in public meetings and seminars. A close friend of Bill's told me about his then alleged inability to meet women. Like my friend, Bill was married. I simply did not believe Bill Cosby, former star of "I Spy" and producer of "Fat Albert" needed "help" getting a "date." I share Rachel L. Swarns' dismay. Bill Cosby was a great man, with important ideas who should have been jailed long ago - perhaps getting out about now.
I loved the Cosby show as a child and understand the author's nostalgia. But I don't think Cosby or any of the characters he created should continue to be celebrated. Bill Cosby is a serial rapist. Were he not a celebrity, there would have been a nationwide manhunt to find the serial rapist attacking a frighteningly large number of women. Instead, Cosby was allowed to act as a violent rapist for decades. He should be in jail and his past success should be marked only as a cautionary tale about the dangers of celebrity and worshipping these famous people to the point that they believe they are invincible.
3
He was a good actor who fooled us all.Who would suspect such a monster even if he had not portrayed an upper middle class stereotype in black face? His TV shows were his day job so he could amass the capital to do what he wanted, run rampant like a disease that affects women. I never bought the middle class lifestyle his show typified so I never watched his show or enjoyed the mere idea of it. All this only shows you never can tell from the outside or role modeling for that matter, what the true man or monster is like underneath it all. We need to choose our heroes wisely, whether TV heroes, film heroes or role models in any context. May they truly be of the highest caliber before we idolize them.
I call it the Woody Allen syndrome. When one finds out things about a person that are very difficult to accept, it does effect your feelings about their art or acts. It is even more complicated if the "truth" is not totally clear, though usually over time (history) that gets resolved.
Whether people should be judged by modern standards for historical persons, or just personal feelings about morality, there is no question that ti colors our appreciation of what they have done or created.
Finding out that someone has feet of clay or worse can lead to feelings of distrust and cynicism. And a huge feeling of loss, as the pleasure or contribution taken previously now seems wrong or tainted.
No one is perfect, but these falls from grace are so great that it is doubtful they can ever be redeemed, even over time. It is difficult to separate the creator from the creation.
Whether people should be judged by modern standards for historical persons, or just personal feelings about morality, there is no question that ti colors our appreciation of what they have done or created.
Finding out that someone has feet of clay or worse can lead to feelings of distrust and cynicism. And a huge feeling of loss, as the pleasure or contribution taken previously now seems wrong or tainted.
No one is perfect, but these falls from grace are so great that it is doubtful they can ever be redeemed, even over time. It is difficult to separate the creator from the creation.
3
I felt exactly the same way (and I am white). I was really depressed when the news broke, partly because the accusations had the ring of truth to me, and it suggested a bizarre split personality in a man whose work I grew up loving. (I enjoyed his book on fatherhood, too.)
On the other hand, I am depressed all over again when people chime in and say, "Nothing's been proven!" and "Innocent until proven guilty." These poor women had no evidence at the time (short of a blood test) because they couldn't prove there had been a struggle. (There was no struggle. They were unconscious.) Now they finally have some proof, through the words of other women, and they still aren't believed. If he did this three times/year for 30 years, that's 90 women. And he may have done it more.
What's sad is that a man who could shine so much hope and humor could carry so much darkness. It doesn't make the author childish to grieve. It makes her human.
On the other hand, I am depressed all over again when people chime in and say, "Nothing's been proven!" and "Innocent until proven guilty." These poor women had no evidence at the time (short of a blood test) because they couldn't prove there had been a struggle. (There was no struggle. They were unconscious.) Now they finally have some proof, through the words of other women, and they still aren't believed. If he did this three times/year for 30 years, that's 90 women. And he may have done it more.
What's sad is that a man who could shine so much hope and humor could carry so much darkness. It doesn't make the author childish to grieve. It makes her human.
5
One doctor and one lawyer living in a now 10-million dollar brownstone means they were easily in the top 1%. The fact that they were not in the Bill Gates category does not in any way mean they were "middle class."
3
Class requires more than money. They were middle class.
One other thing...
If we can watch The Cosby Show again, will Bill let us watch Heckle and Jeckle again too?
I loved those two guys, and for Cosby to have destroyed them because they were black!
For that I don't forgive Cosby!
If we can watch The Cosby Show again, will Bill let us watch Heckle and Jeckle again too?
I loved those two guys, and for Cosby to have destroyed them because they were black!
For that I don't forgive Cosby!
1
I had this very conversation with a young man just a month ago.
The man had adored The Cosby Show and saw the show as a reflection of his actual life. I maybe should mention that this man is white. And adopted. And his relationship with his father (who died when the man was a teen) was very close.
The anger this man has towards Cosby today is deep!
I tried to let him know that I had liked Cosby since I was old enough to turn on the record player. We used to listen to Cosby's albums over and over! And there he was on I Spy! And there he was as the Basketball coach. I always had Bill Cosby, even when I had George Carlin and Richard Pryor and Cheech and Chong (Steve Martin you could keep!)
Bill Cosby is FUNNY on stage! Off stage he puts women to sleep.
I don't forgive him for doing that. (But I grew up in a time when "Spanish Fly" was advertised where penis enlargement pills are now!) Nor do I feel sorry for him.
You live by the sword, you die by the sword! You made your way by manipulating the media. You danced with that devil. I'm not sorry that you are getting burned by it.
But that doesn't make anything of what you did any less! The Chicken Heart is still about my father telling anybody who will listen about that stupid thing I did. And I laugh at it (laugh, clown laugh!)
There would be less about this if BC didn't eat cigars to gain negotiation power. The guy has been a creep. The characters have been great.
Grow up. Don't idolize celebrity.
The man had adored The Cosby Show and saw the show as a reflection of his actual life. I maybe should mention that this man is white. And adopted. And his relationship with his father (who died when the man was a teen) was very close.
The anger this man has towards Cosby today is deep!
I tried to let him know that I had liked Cosby since I was old enough to turn on the record player. We used to listen to Cosby's albums over and over! And there he was on I Spy! And there he was as the Basketball coach. I always had Bill Cosby, even when I had George Carlin and Richard Pryor and Cheech and Chong (Steve Martin you could keep!)
Bill Cosby is FUNNY on stage! Off stage he puts women to sleep.
I don't forgive him for doing that. (But I grew up in a time when "Spanish Fly" was advertised where penis enlargement pills are now!) Nor do I feel sorry for him.
You live by the sword, you die by the sword! You made your way by manipulating the media. You danced with that devil. I'm not sorry that you are getting burned by it.
But that doesn't make anything of what you did any less! The Chicken Heart is still about my father telling anybody who will listen about that stupid thing I did. And I laugh at it (laugh, clown laugh!)
There would be less about this if BC didn't eat cigars to gain negotiation power. The guy has been a creep. The characters have been great.
Grow up. Don't idolize celebrity.
2
If half of America knew better than to idolize celebrity, celebrities would not exist. However, Bill Cosby is a case altogether different. As the person with creative control of his show, he intended for audiences to believe that the show was a reflection of his own family life, and THAT was the appeal that catapulted Bill Cosby to superstardom and kept him there. And, yes, while we should have known that Bill Cosby spent more time on set creating that image of the family we all loved and wanted than living it daily in his personal life, the show did not become Number 1 because of its mere artistic or entertainment value. We all watched because it resonated with our core. Bill Cosby guided us farther down into that rabbit hole of deceit by publicly, and vehemently, expressing his political views, which cemented his place in our minds as a moral authority and father figure we already knew. Dr. Huxtable would have agreed with Cosby's core argument that emphasized the importance of personal responsibility in our youth today. For those of us who are struggling to separate the art from the artist, this has nothing to do with a lack of anything on our part, but everything to do with being human: we made ourselves vulnerable by believing what Bill Cosby wanted us to believe about him for the last 30 years, when he really was just playing a role. That's a long time to shake off and move on unscathed.
Most of the humor revolved around Dr. Huxtable being outnumbered by a gaggle of bossy women who never missed an opportunity to make him look foolish. The shtick could get tiresome at times.
I remember towards the end of the run, Cliff inquires of his new son in law to find out if his daughter had remained chaste until marriage. In real life, most people would think that a highly inappropriate question that crosses a line.
Every once in a while the sitcom would show hints of something a little more disturbing than harmless family fun.
I remember towards the end of the run, Cliff inquires of his new son in law to find out if his daughter had remained chaste until marriage. In real life, most people would think that a highly inappropriate question that crosses a line.
Every once in a while the sitcom would show hints of something a little more disturbing than harmless family fun.
4
My connection with Bill Cosby was his comedy albums which I wore out from constant listening. I expect that my endless nine-year-old repetition of his routines wore out everyone around me. My family is white and my household was steeped in racial hatred and fear, but to me, Bill Cosby nothing but funny. I credit his influence with helping me to get past the notion that color has anything to do with anything.
When his behavior was revealed, it was a "Say it ain't so, Joe." moment for me. Whether we like it or not, stories and characters have real-world influence and Cosby's career spanned so many years, genre, and media that his influence on many Americans was profound. The evidence so far indicates that he was the the worst kind of predator which makes the happy memories especially disorienting.
When his behavior was revealed, it was a "Say it ain't so, Joe." moment for me. Whether we like it or not, stories and characters have real-world influence and Cosby's career spanned so many years, genre, and media that his influence on many Americans was profound. The evidence so far indicates that he was the the worst kind of predator which makes the happy memories especially disorienting.
6
There are many actors who, as people, are not very nice. We read about them in the news--arrests, involvement with prostitutes, etc. Yet, that doesn't stop us from enjoying the movies and the characters they play in them. Dr. Huxtable was a character even if Bill Cosby played him. The show was excellent and gently taught may life lessons. I see no reason why the episodes should be pulled from TV. Just because we may have discovered that Mr. Cosby is not the man we thought him to be doesn't make the character he played in the TV series any less enjoyable.
2
I can only imagine how hist co-stars feel. A few of them were collecting respectable residual checks from reruns and DVD sales every year. All that is pretty much out the window for them.
2
They should sue.
Were the little girls (and the actress who played his wife) in danger from him?
Were the little girls (and the actress who played his wife) in danger from him?
As a Black man who is one year younger than Bill Cosby and who has been perceived as a successful businessman, I'm Leary of all these dozens of women who've been so silent for all these years. Makes me think that most think they see a gravy train. And, they won't win.
2
Women often keep silent about rape because of fear of men like you who will be "Leary" of them and "think they see a gravy train".
1
Does anyone think Anthony Hopkins eats people with fava beans and Chianti?
No, he was an actor playing a role. Cosby played a wonderful guy, that doesn't mean he is or was!
No, he was an actor playing a role. Cosby played a wonderful guy, that doesn't mean he is or was!
1
My son walked home from high school in the late 1990's and we watched the Cosby show (re-runs) every day over lunch. We fell in love with every character on that show and we sometimes said we wished we could crawl into the TV and become a part of that family. There are so many wonderful scenes, but the one that really got me was when the tired Dr./father came home and laid down in his dad's lap on the couch and his father told him a story. While my husband and three sons were a white family living in the Midwest, we felt one with Bill Cosby's TV family.
I remember feeling real grief for Mr. Cosby and his "real family" when their son was tragically murdered. So I totally relate to With Rachel Swarn's article because I feel sincere grief for everyone: the victims, the Cosby family, his fellow actors and friends, and the public who feel true disappointment and betrayal by his actions. But in hindsight, we need to stop thinking that actors are like the people they portray.
If there is any good to come from this, it is more knowledge that his behavior is a mental illness (and criminal), and that people should be a lot more careful to let another person fix them a drink.
I remember feeling real grief for Mr. Cosby and his "real family" when their son was tragically murdered. So I totally relate to With Rachel Swarn's article because I feel sincere grief for everyone: the victims, the Cosby family, his fellow actors and friends, and the public who feel true disappointment and betrayal by his actions. But in hindsight, we need to stop thinking that actors are like the people they portray.
If there is any good to come from this, it is more knowledge that his behavior is a mental illness (and criminal), and that people should be a lot more careful to let another person fix them a drink.
4
For now, I am still grieving.
This just means that you NEVER grew up to be an adult. But you are not alone in the USA. Far too many people "personalize entertainment and entertainers" and the media is largely to blame.
Every day we read in the nations newspapers about people who do terrible things and the neighbors are quoted as saying "Oh, he/she was such a nice person" What it means is that we really don't know anybody, we live on our own created ideas and take those to be "gospel"
Cosby is no different from anyone else. He is accused of doing bad things and it would likely have happened even if he hadn't been Dr Huxtable. It is a character flaw.
This just means that you NEVER grew up to be an adult. But you are not alone in the USA. Far too many people "personalize entertainment and entertainers" and the media is largely to blame.
Every day we read in the nations newspapers about people who do terrible things and the neighbors are quoted as saying "Oh, he/she was such a nice person" What it means is that we really don't know anybody, we live on our own created ideas and take those to be "gospel"
Cosby is no different from anyone else. He is accused of doing bad things and it would likely have happened even if he hadn't been Dr Huxtable. It is a character flaw.
1
Sorry - did I miss the conviction? Sounds like the judicial proceedings are a waste of money to hear the undertones of just about every opinion expressed here. As for the focus of this piece, Cosby was not Huxtable. You liked Huxtable. The totality of Huxtable was what appeared on the screen. You thought you also liked Cosby (you felt you couldn't separate the two) but the totality of Cosby (actually, the totality of any given actor) is never fully apparent nor known. So, appreciate the "act" - and leave the actor out of it unless you make your admiration forever contingent on the good behaviour of the performer.
3
Yes, Virginia, good and evil can co-exist in the same mind. It's a puzzlement.
And minds can also enjoy and respect the good and loathe the evil.
I think Cosby was one of the black pioneers. From "I Spy" on through the Cosby shows, he provided great entertainment with minimal expressions of resentment and the writer pays superb homage to that contribution and its effect on her and millions of others. Bravo!
...and by the way, the taped stand-up show of Cosby's "Bill Cosby--Himself" is, I think, the funniest and most insightful comedic perfromance by anyone, ever.
And minds can also enjoy and respect the good and loathe the evil.
I think Cosby was one of the black pioneers. From "I Spy" on through the Cosby shows, he provided great entertainment with minimal expressions of resentment and the writer pays superb homage to that contribution and its effect on her and millions of others. Bravo!
...and by the way, the taped stand-up show of Cosby's "Bill Cosby--Himself" is, I think, the funniest and most insightful comedic perfromance by anyone, ever.
5
I totally agree with Dan Stackhouse about Cliff Huxtable and the entire cast. The dialogue was so perfect. I truly grieve the fact it will never again be available on TV. My most favorite program.
1
The groundbreaking thing about The Cosby Show is not just that it was a hit sitcom with black characters. Unlike earlier black sitcoms, most of the time it wasn't about being black. It was about the universal experiences of family life and parenting.
3
I don't know. I grew up on Leave It to Beaver and have vague memories of Ozzie and Harriet. I loved Walt Disney on Sundays.
But really, I was always cynical, even as a kid and knew that what I see on TV ain't real.
I'm most apt to purse my lips and say, uh-uh, another "pillar" of the community found out to be living a lie. I can't believe people who swear they know someone and know they didn't do "it" whatever the it is - molest children, kill a spouse, steal, murder someone.
None of us know the secret life of others.
I say look to yourself and loved ones (if you think they are worthy) and forget about people you know nothing about.
But really, I was always cynical, even as a kid and knew that what I see on TV ain't real.
I'm most apt to purse my lips and say, uh-uh, another "pillar" of the community found out to be living a lie. I can't believe people who swear they know someone and know they didn't do "it" whatever the it is - molest children, kill a spouse, steal, murder someone.
None of us know the secret life of others.
I say look to yourself and loved ones (if you think they are worthy) and forget about people you know nothing about.
I always loved Cliff Huxtable, the funny, wise father and loving husband. I liked his wife a little more, but that's another story really. It was extremely disappointing to hear of Mr. Cosby's crimes, but luckily I did not conflate the character with the actor, so I still love Dr. Huxtable, the fictitious patriarch. Dr. Huxtable didn't commit any crimes, and has the benefit of not having really existed, so he can remain an archetype of fatherly wisdom for me.
Also luckily for me, Dr. Huxtable wasn't my TV hero. That would be Mr. Spock, whom I revered as a kid. Mr. Spock helped me through the torments of my youth (not easy being a short, smart kid with glasses, thanks to the Trumps of sixth grade), by demonstrating how to be stoic, logical, and how to not give in to strong emotion. He showed me it was OK to be smart, that often the intelligent person saves the day. He also taught me that analysis, determination, diplomacy, and innovation could solve most any problem.
So I am thankful that Leonard Nimoy never had any scandals at all, which might have caused me to renounce my TV hero. But it did depress me severely when he passed away, even though he was certainly of an age to do so.
Also luckily for me, Dr. Huxtable wasn't my TV hero. That would be Mr. Spock, whom I revered as a kid. Mr. Spock helped me through the torments of my youth (not easy being a short, smart kid with glasses, thanks to the Trumps of sixth grade), by demonstrating how to be stoic, logical, and how to not give in to strong emotion. He showed me it was OK to be smart, that often the intelligent person saves the day. He also taught me that analysis, determination, diplomacy, and innovation could solve most any problem.
So I am thankful that Leonard Nimoy never had any scandals at all, which might have caused me to renounce my TV hero. But it did depress me severely when he passed away, even though he was certainly of an age to do so.
12
Lucky for you, it's much easier to close the book on Spock, with the passing of Nimoy. With Cosby, it's still an open book. The guy is still evasive, he's still free from jail for the crimes he committed. That's just wrong.
No, those crimes have nothing to do with Huxtable. But Cosby *lived* the character. It's impossible to rewatch that show, separating Cosby the Huxtable, from Cosby the rapist.
No, those crimes have nothing to do with Huxtable. But Cosby *lived* the character. It's impossible to rewatch that show, separating Cosby the Huxtable, from Cosby the rapist.
2
Those of us who come from dysfunctional (or incomplete) families, those of us raised on television because our parents are never home, those of color seeking a wider reflection of what their lives are actually like - so many of us were deeply affected by television heroes. As a white girl from a single-parent family (before that term existed, when "divorce" was a word whispered and never spoken), Father Knows Best was a family I looked up to to complete my world. How heartbreaking to have such heroes fall so meanly. My condolences.
15
Not only was the tv show a charade, but so is Mr. Cosby's acting now as his lawyers defend him. The NY Times printed version of this article includes a photo of Mr. Cosby looking frail, dressed in a ill-fitting sweater that looks like it came from Goodwill, and holding onto a cane he allegedly uses to walk.
I'm sure his lawyers came up with this costume to convey an image of a man who is so down trodden, poor and impotent that he could never have drugged and raped women. This may be Mr. Cosby's best acting yet! Unfortunately, it will not get him an Oscar nor a get out of jail free card.
To his lawyers: your next step is to get him into a wheelchair for photo ops.
I'm sure his lawyers came up with this costume to convey an image of a man who is so down trodden, poor and impotent that he could never have drugged and raped women. This may be Mr. Cosby's best acting yet! Unfortunately, it will not get him an Oscar nor a get out of jail free card.
To his lawyers: your next step is to get him into a wheelchair for photo ops.
5
Dr. Huxtable will always live on as a character of what an involved, good father should be. And this character was neither black nor white; he was a father figure that should be emulated by all fathers.
That Bill Cosby now has a problem in no way reduces the validity of the character he created and what that character was to the rest of his "family."
That Bill Cosby now has a problem in no way reduces the validity of the character he created and what that character was to the rest of his "family."
9
"...Bill Cosby now has a problem..."
How easy it is for you to reduce the enormity of his crime of multiple rapes, as just "a problem."
How easy it is for you to reduce the enormity of his crime of multiple rapes, as just "a problem."
1
The poster is clearly, if you could calm down your rage, responding to the question up on this comment section; can the art be judged separately from the man. The commenter says "yes". S/He does not deserve to be berated because s/he used a word you found not enraged enough for your um - taste when answering the question.
1
Very few half hour TV sitcoms show complex characters. When the weekly showing of a beloved one dimensional character must co-exist with with the real life actor whose private behaviour crosses so many lines of good manners, morality or criminality, viewers rarely are able to look at the "art" without seeing the "artist". Reconciling any perfect image with "tarnished" reality is difficult whether examining the work and lives of sports heroes, elected officials, rock stars, bishops or authors.
I am troubled by the many references to Bill Clinton in comments to an article about a serial rapist who allegedly used drugs to control his victims. There is no evidence Mr. Clinton needed to use anything other than a magnetic personality and unlimited opportunity. The term "consenting adults" does have relevance in his case as it does most likely does with Speaker Gingrich, Robert Livingston and other political figures whose wives are not prominent politicians currently seeking office on the basis of their own qualifications.
When we learn about the private conduct of a public figure, it is very hard to look at their work in the same way. Those of us brought up on movies with Rock Hudson as the romantic hetrosexual hero probably still enjoy his movies despite the revelations of his sexual orientation.
I am troubled by the many references to Bill Clinton in comments to an article about a serial rapist who allegedly used drugs to control his victims. There is no evidence Mr. Clinton needed to use anything other than a magnetic personality and unlimited opportunity. The term "consenting adults" does have relevance in his case as it does most likely does with Speaker Gingrich, Robert Livingston and other political figures whose wives are not prominent politicians currently seeking office on the basis of their own qualifications.
When we learn about the private conduct of a public figure, it is very hard to look at their work in the same way. Those of us brought up on movies with Rock Hudson as the romantic hetrosexual hero probably still enjoy his movies despite the revelations of his sexual orientation.
3
Cliff Huxtable is destroyed for me, replaced by the image of Cosby the rapist or at the very least revolting seducer of vulnerable women. Sorry, I cannot separate life from art in this case. Woody Allen has a similar effect on me. Cosby to me is worse because his image was as a great father, protective of his family including young girls. He used this same persona to rape women and for those who just cannot believe that -- trick women into activity that they did not wish to partake in. He acted as mentor, teacher to accomplish this. He sickens me. Do I, like the writer feel sad about that - NO. Just angry.
14
This entire saga has just left me feeling very sad -- for the fictional Huxtables and for Mr. Cosby who has turned out to be just as fictional as the character he portrayed on his show. I suspect, however, that he is not the only one and that there are many more actors and actresses (and politicians) out there -- past and present -- who we revere because we loved a character and/or image they put forth but who have very nasty, real-life skeletons in their closets or are the total opposite of their beloved alter egos?
There are many others too. Roman Polanski for one, or Jimmy Savile on the other side of the Atlantic.
I don't expect actors to be saints, but I expect them to do no harm to others. These guys have crossed that line. So, there's that.
I don't expect actors to be saints, but I expect them to do no harm to others. These guys have crossed that line. So, there's that.
1
Woody Allen is nothing like Cosby. The allegations by Allen's ex-wife, who obviously was very upset (and I don't blame her for being upset he took up with her adopted daughter) were found not to be credible when investigated years ago. His other children do not believe them either and say their mother is a liar. At one point she (Farrow) participated in a program honoring Allen's body of work after she made the allegations. Unfortunately, people do not like to remember much more than horrid allegations, or assume they are true. Sorry if I seem aggrieved (I don't watch his movies any more because they got boring to me), but it gets my dander up when people are accused of terrible things and the accusers don't even bother to look at the record.
There wasn't a ZOOMer I didn't want to be. A program with kids as not only the talent but also the creators felt like a revelation. Come on and zoom, zoom, zoom-ah-zoom . . .
1
Excuse me. Woody Allen has never been convicted of a crime (neither has Ccsby, but the multitude of accuser's is very troubling). Mr. Allen has defended himself from this accusation convincingly enough that a judge refused to charge him. Read his defense - it is vey convincing.
3
Spike I suggest you also read the victim's account, as well as the Vanity Fair coverage. As all people who work in field of criminal justice for rape victims know, just bc a judge does not have enough evidence to convict in no way does it mean he has not committed the crime.
2
I share Ms Swarns grief over Cosby and his show. Were he white, it would be so much easier to let him go as there are so many others to replace him with. But he was a rarity; a Black man with a wealthy, educated family fully living the American dream and then some. He lived better than most whites. AND the family was hilarious and the kind of family we all wanted.
But I think there is something positive to take away from all this. We have a habit of painting things as simply as possible - there are always good guys and bad guys and never just guys. Just because Cosby is Black does not mean he can't be an abusive criminal. Just because someone has been victimized in some way does not mean they cannot be a victimizer in another to others.
Maybe we all need to grow up and accept that being equal means being equally flawed and potentially abusive...or, let's be positive for a change, potentially gifted angels of light and healing. Color is not indicative of either.
But I think there is something positive to take away from all this. We have a habit of painting things as simply as possible - there are always good guys and bad guys and never just guys. Just because Cosby is Black does not mean he can't be an abusive criminal. Just because someone has been victimized in some way does not mean they cannot be a victimizer in another to others.
Maybe we all need to grow up and accept that being equal means being equally flawed and potentially abusive...or, let's be positive for a change, potentially gifted angels of light and healing. Color is not indicative of either.
12
"Just because Cosby is Black does not mean he can't be an abusive criminal. Just because someone has been victimized in some way does not mean they cannot be a victimizer in another to others."
Spare me the pontification. Don't pull the victims in to say all those women can be "bad" person (whatever you really mean), as if it's justification for the rapes that Cosby did or that the victims might share some blame for what happened to them. Your statement disgusts me.
Spare me the pontification. Don't pull the victims in to say all those women can be "bad" person (whatever you really mean), as if it's justification for the rapes that Cosby did or that the victims might share some blame for what happened to them. Your statement disgusts me.
1
Wow. That is a whole big misdirected rant there. Your (deliberate?) misunderstanding of my comment does not bode well for your ability to be trusted on other judgements requiring cognitive skills so I will file this under "engaging with strangers" on the internets.
1
If you want to understand why Mr Trump is winning, look at this article. There is an unfortunate tendency in humans to believe that what we see on television is in fact 100% real. Trump seems in command as he fires and berates people on his reality show, so he must be presidential timber. The late Sen. Fred Thompson played authoritative figures so he should be president, too. And of course Reagan appeared sound and sane on screen so he must be in real life, too. I look at Tom Select and realize he is to the right of Attila the Hun but he was simply likable on tv.
Get over it guys!
Get over it guys!
23
The difference of course is that Cliff Huxtable is a character. Donald Trump is real. However Huxtable appears only reflects on something that is already fake. The tendency to associate the image of Trump with Trump matter a lot more because the real Trump matters. He's not the figment of someone's imagination.
1
Well done, Ms. Swarns. However, I think it would be a mistake to underestimate the value of "Good Times" in terms of portraying a black family headed by two strong, loving parents who set limits and expectations on their children and provided a stable base from which those kids might be better able to succeed in life.
In fact, I admired James and Florida Evans more, because they did not have the economic advantage of the Huxtables, and yet still managed to carry on.
In fact, I admired James and Florida Evans more, because they did not have the economic advantage of the Huxtables, and yet still managed to carry on.
8
I agree with you. The "Good Times" family was a working class family; the black upper middle class commentators like the author of the piece you are responding to, reveal their uneasiness with class. There is a strata of wealthy, upper middle class blacks epitomized by Obama and Cliff Huxtable whose concerns are a million miles away from the vast majority of blacks in the US who are working class.
3
That is true, but do not forget that they eventually killed off James, and Florida became a single mother living in the projects,albeit with lovely and accomplished children.
2
I share in your grieving. In fact, I was just talking to a friend about it the other day. The Cosby Show was a great show and was a cultural phenomenon in the 1980s. Our societal relationship with television was different then - pre-internet, it was more central to the household. Shows came on at a particular time, and families would watch together in the living room. The Cosby Show is one of the main shows I can remember watching in such a way.
I was about 10 when the show started, but I already knew Cosby from Fat Albert cartoons and from seeing him do his relatively kid-safe standup. At one point, a friend and I kind of became kind of obsessed with his "Bill Cosby Himself" standup recording, and we watched it repeatedly on my friend's super-cool VCR.
But Cliff Huxtable brought Bill Cosby to a new level in the public consciousness. He wasn't presented as "other" to us white kids, but as one of us. In truth, his race became invisible as he was integrated into the lives of people of all races around the country. Certainly black families remained aware of it, but for white families, we saw Cosby as one of our own rather than another, which I think was an important step for racial relations.
I was about 10 when the show started, but I already knew Cosby from Fat Albert cartoons and from seeing him do his relatively kid-safe standup. At one point, a friend and I kind of became kind of obsessed with his "Bill Cosby Himself" standup recording, and we watched it repeatedly on my friend's super-cool VCR.
But Cliff Huxtable brought Bill Cosby to a new level in the public consciousness. He wasn't presented as "other" to us white kids, but as one of us. In truth, his race became invisible as he was integrated into the lives of people of all races around the country. Certainly black families remained aware of it, but for white families, we saw Cosby as one of our own rather than another, which I think was an important step for racial relations.
5
Sorry, folks, he gives me the creeps.....
6
I spend a great deal of time mulling over the issue of separating the artist from the artwork. Roman Polanski, Woody Allen , to name two, are brilliant filmmakers whose indelible work will forever inform us. Both men have had charges, and in Polanski's case, a conviction of child molestation. This makes me sick and I would not like to be in the same room as these men. However, I will always teach their work, and revere the work.
1
Even in 1984, a family headed by a doctor and lawyer and living in Brooklyn Heights brownstone was not "middle class." They were well into the top 1%.
2
Let us not forget that Cliff Huxtable and the family were also adored by millions of white families. The Cosby Show was a wonderful show.
3
Very sweet and true. Our white family -- my wife and I and our son and daughter -- watched regularly and came to identify with the Huxtables, crossing (well, at least partly) the racial divide, feeling blackness not as something other but as love. I learned about parenting from Cliff and Mr. Rogers, who never lost their composure and were always rock-solid in their grown-upness. Fred Rogers' death was terribly sad, but Bill Cosby's fall is tragic.
18
I had forgotten that Huxtable was an obstetrician. In hindsight that is seriously creepy.
I feel for the writer. And, no, I haven't watched a Woody Allen movie since he married his adopted daughter (and apparently molested his biological one).
I feel for the writer. And, no, I haven't watched a Woody Allen movie since he married his adopted daughter (and apparently molested his biological one).
4
Dear Elizabeth,
Just as an aside, while there's no doubt at all that Woody Allen married his adopted daughter, who was like 40 years younger than him (and I too have not watched a film of his since then), there is no evidence whatsoever that he molested his biological daughter. The allegation stems from the hysterical slander of a hate-filled ex-wife, and there's no other reason to believe it, so basically I don't buy it.
Just as an aside, while there's no doubt at all that Woody Allen married his adopted daughter, who was like 40 years younger than him (and I too have not watched a film of his since then), there is no evidence whatsoever that he molested his biological daughter. The allegation stems from the hysterical slander of a hate-filled ex-wife, and there's no other reason to believe it, so basically I don't buy it.
2
First of all, do your "homework"-Woody Allen didn't ever adopt Soon-Ye. Mia Farrow, his girlfriend at the time, did. Secondly, he's been absolved of his adopted daughter Dylan's accusations (again, do your homework before making grand pronouncements-she's NOT his biological child). The judge found Dylan to be lying and coached by her mother.
3
Patou, while you are correct Dylan Farrow is not Allen's biological daughter, you are incorrect that "the judge found Dylan to be lying and coached by her mother". The 7 judges were extremely concerned that Allen had in fact violated the child and ordered he have no further contact with her (despite his request for it). They could not convict with the evidence they had. That means only they couldn't reach the legal threshold for conviction, not that he didn't commit the crime. Do your homework, yourself. Read the trial notes.
1
I understand. I went for years thinking most bunnies thought like Bugs. I knew lots of Bugs Bunnys.
3
Thank you for this poignant reflection. I liked the Cosby Show for the same reasons as you. I'm white but in Dr. Huxtable I recognized many of my parents' black friends who I knew growing up -- and had never seen on TV before. It was a validation of the world I knew in a medium that had always denied its reality. Separating the artists from the art is an old battle, but it's worth fighting, if only because if I reject the art made by people who have done awful things, I end up narrowing my world.
1
I, too, loved the Huxtable's. It may be hard to separate this very flawed artist from his art and the revelations about him are sad and painful for his fans and former fans. Cosby might have thought that he was entitled to any woman he wanted due to his fame and riches. He was wrong.
Today most African Americans are regarded as citizens rather than suspects. Cosby and crew cannot take full credit for that but the show was a great breakthrough and played a part. I remember when my daughter, then a young tween, heard about Michael Jackson being accused of pediphilic acts. She was crushed. Most idols have feet of clay but realizing the great divide between who we thought our idols were and who they turned out to be can be jarring. Cosby was a role model who failed us and himself.
Today most African Americans are regarded as citizens rather than suspects. Cosby and crew cannot take full credit for that but the show was a great breakthrough and played a part. I remember when my daughter, then a young tween, heard about Michael Jackson being accused of pediphilic acts. She was crushed. Most idols have feet of clay but realizing the great divide between who we thought our idols were and who they turned out to be can be jarring. Cosby was a role model who failed us and himself.
1
I feel the author's pain. Deeply.
2
Thank you, Ms Swarns.
1
The Dick Van Dyke Show. Back when it aired there was no other show like it. The story of a television writer and his fellow writers and his family and friends. It was original and hysterical. And the cast was the cream of the crop. I wish the cable networks like TV Land would air it again instead of the newer sitcoms the network currently airs. The Dick Van Dyke Show still resonates with me today. It is still my favorite sitcom.
1
Dick Van Dyke was an alcoholic during the show.
It's really funny to me that Meh jumped in with perhaps the only scandal related to Mr. Van Dyke. But I have doubts that he was actually a technical alcoholic. Alcoholics, as AA will tell you, have two conditions: 1) alcohol use is destroying their jobs, families, and lives, and 2) they can't stop drinking. Since Mr. Van Dyke had a rather successful show and never showed the troubles that, for example, Charlie Sheen did on "2.5 Men", I'd say that rather than being an alcoholic he simply drank a great deal. Nothing inherently wrong with that.
1
We live in a complex world. Even as I inhabit 'now' I get whirled around tobthe past and work to reconcile it yet again.
Cosby's story is, I believe, far more complex than is generally presented. And that most of the accusations took so long to surface makes it more complicated, still.
In the midst of a 'sexual revolution' a young, talented, wealthy, successful, powerful, attractive and healthy male crossed a line that often, at the time, was frayed and fuzzy. Often that 'crossing' involved another adult who was, likely, at least partially aware of the nature of the circumstance she was in.
I am loathe to judge....
In the midst of a 'sexual revolution' a young, talented, wealthy, successful, powerful, attractive and healthy male crossed a line that often, at the time, was frayed and fuzzy. Often that 'crossing' involved another adult who was, likely, at least partially aware of the nature of the circumstance she was in.
I am loathe to judge....
3
The 'drug them and rape them' line was never as fuzzy as you suggest.
5
Some date rape scenarios are fuzzy in terms of judging inebriation and enthusiasm. The accusations I have read against Cosby are not fuzzy at all. He drugged and raped people when they were unconscious, and it seems it least in many cases lied about why he invited women to come to his room (for interviews, etc.) and lied about what was in the pills.
3
One must always separate the art from the artist. Prosecute Bill Cosby if necessary and let the jury decide. But there is no contradiction in continuing to watch his TV reruns and listening to his comedy albums. Bill Cosby is the lie, not Cliff Huxtable. The moral fiber of the audience should be strong enough to know - and experience - the difference.
4
A well-articulated lament and, perhaps, a plea that innocence might go un-betrayed at some later time. Yet the 80's were worse for so many minorities than the 10's are. As another commenter wrote, we have a model African-American family today that far surpasses the Huxtables, the Obamas. You could argue that the latter real-life family couldn't have happened without the former, fictional one to lay the cultural groundwork of acceptance. Okay. But doesn't the question become one of our strange preference for the representation of something over the very thing it represents?
6
Really, you're suggesting Obama is in office thanks to Bill Cosby and his show? My goodness.
2
I never liked Cosby even in his TV show. There was always something "off' about him. Now I know why. ESP is bred out of most people. We should always listen to that inner voice.
1
Partlycloudy, I was keeping my mouth shut because I thought it was just me. I've always thought his smile had a mocking element in it, like "this nice personna is just a big ol' facade and you either believe it, or are in here with me." I've never been able to stand watching him, but I assumed that since everyone else seemed to love him I was just mistaken.
2
Cliff Huxtable = the old Atticus Finch.
1
Not really. I read the second book. Atticus sure was a racist in keeping with Southern gentlemen his age. But the book was nuanced. His support of a white racist was to "keep the order" as gentlemen of that age saw fit. Ok, it wasn't right but people's attitudes evolve with time. What was acceptable before isn't any more. So what if Atticus's daughter was ahead of her time (well, not that ahead, she still did not like it that Brown vs Board of Ed was forced down the South, meaning forced to desegregate). Anyway, I feel that analogy isn't right.
1
While we are meddling in the land of fantasy and fiction,let's not forget that Gregory Peck was never charged with criminal acts.
Let's stay in the real world here. Bill Cosby is not Cliff Huxtable.
Let's stay in the real world here. Bill Cosby is not Cliff Huxtable.
1
@Sutapa - thanks. It's not that the men are the same. It's that both were idolized by teenagers who are now coping with adult news that's difficult to absorb: this essay about Huxtable/Cosby reminded me of essays that I was reading 6 months ago about Atticus/Atticus.
Great people are flawed, and evil people have unexpected qualities. It is only in our desire to fit everyone into a nice one-dimensional box that we struggle.
Bill Cosby was a great pioneer who made great strides in the fight against racism. He is a very funny man who found a way to approach what are often serious topics - family values, morality, education, racism - in a way that was very engaging and funny, without in any way trivializing them. This was a great gift, and we are lucky to have had him at the time we did.
Bill Cosby was a sexual predator who took advantage of his fame and used wholly inappropriate and probably illegal means to coerce women to have sex with him.
These are two facts. The same man was both good and evil. We do not need to create a one-dimensional version of him. He was well rewarded for his positive contributions to society, and he should be punished for his crimes.
It is not just that the real Bill Cosby is not Cliff Huxtable. The Bill Cosby who created Cliff Huxtable was brilliant and great. The Bill Cosby who raped was evil.
Psychologists can debate whether his disregard for women was always there or whether it came with fame and fortune - or even whether he came to believe that, after Cliff Huxtable, he had the right to define his own moral rules.
Bill Cosby was a great pioneer who made great strides in the fight against racism. He is a very funny man who found a way to approach what are often serious topics - family values, morality, education, racism - in a way that was very engaging and funny, without in any way trivializing them. This was a great gift, and we are lucky to have had him at the time we did.
Bill Cosby was a sexual predator who took advantage of his fame and used wholly inappropriate and probably illegal means to coerce women to have sex with him.
These are two facts. The same man was both good and evil. We do not need to create a one-dimensional version of him. He was well rewarded for his positive contributions to society, and he should be punished for his crimes.
It is not just that the real Bill Cosby is not Cliff Huxtable. The Bill Cosby who created Cliff Huxtable was brilliant and great. The Bill Cosby who raped was evil.
Psychologists can debate whether his disregard for women was always there or whether it came with fame and fortune - or even whether he came to believe that, after Cliff Huxtable, he had the right to define his own moral rules.
71
The best comment of all. Thank you, Denis.
1
Do not see the good in such a man, sorry. Great pioneer -- pffft
2
Please do not justify his preying on women as something peculiar that comes from fame and fortune, much as we do not go out and run people over with our cars when we're angry, because guess what, there's something called a sense of right and wrong that we all know about. This guy? He doesn't. He did it because he can and he likes it (otherwise he would not have been doing it again and again on different victims). I want to see him punished for the crimes he did, and that has nothing to do with Dr Huxtable. To me, Huxtable had died when the true Cosby character emerged.
1
I could never get into "the Cosby Show". It all seemed so fake and the acting was pretty bad.
As to Mr. Cosby, although I think it sad that this alternate persona has come out, it does show what fame, and the need for fame, power and the need for acceptance will do to both aggressor and victim.
And if you're missing those reruns, try black-ish. It's much better written and MUCH better acted.
As to Mr. Cosby, although I think it sad that this alternate persona has come out, it does show what fame, and the need for fame, power and the need for acceptance will do to both aggressor and victim.
And if you're missing those reruns, try black-ish. It's much better written and MUCH better acted.
1
I understand what the writer is expressing. I get it. I do.
But I must point out "The Cosby Show" was a TV program. It was entertainment. It was stylized, not real. I suggest all who find agreement with the writer consider, and take joy, in those people and relationships around you and with whom you are involved. THAT is cause for rejoicing. The fathers, the mothers, brothers, sisters, friends and lovers. In this there is the joy (and the rest) associated with an entertaining program. The world of the real, not the world of entertainment, is always that way if you but look around. The world of entertainment, as the writer expresses, is (childhood) fantasy and, like all such, should be put away when you move into the adult world of the real.
No criticism, juuuust sayin' is all.
John~
American Net'Zen
But I must point out "The Cosby Show" was a TV program. It was entertainment. It was stylized, not real. I suggest all who find agreement with the writer consider, and take joy, in those people and relationships around you and with whom you are involved. THAT is cause for rejoicing. The fathers, the mothers, brothers, sisters, friends and lovers. In this there is the joy (and the rest) associated with an entertaining program. The world of the real, not the world of entertainment, is always that way if you but look around. The world of entertainment, as the writer expresses, is (childhood) fantasy and, like all such, should be put away when you move into the adult world of the real.
No criticism, juuuust sayin' is all.
John~
American Net'Zen
On the other hand, the abysmal lack of positive black figures in all media is well documented. These media images are powerful and influential. We white people have always had them,so let's not pretend that we were immune to the power of media images.
1
Fortunately, we now know that we cannot separate Bill Clinton, husband of Hillary Rodham, from Bill Cosby. Of course, many of us knew this to be the case from our day 1 dealings with the disreputable and congenital lies of both Hillary and Bill Clinton. After all these decades our earliest suspicions of these reprobates has been one hundred percent confirmed.
1
Ok, you hate the Clintons. This is a different issue, by the way. Many men behave badly in their sex lives. Powerful men have more opportunities. In Cosby's case, he used drugs and rape. How does that implicate Mrs. Clinton? Do you blame Mrs. Cosby for her husband's acts? Just askin'
2
Yup clearly there's the partisan animosity at work here, but the truth is all Bill Clinton did wrong was adultery, and when he was in a political marriage, if there was no love from his wife, going elsewhere seems eminently practical. Bill Clinton never committed any crime at all and all of his sexual partners knew what they were getting into.
"when he was in a political marriage, if there was no love from his wife, going elsewhere seems eminently practical."
I see this differently. First, that is a big "if". What if there was love from his wife? People seem to assume that there wasn't. I don't know what they base that on.
But even if there wasn't, going elsewhere was a violation of his vows to "forsake all others". If you find yourself compelled to go to others, then you renounce your vows and divorce. That's bad, but adultery is worse.
I see this differently. First, that is a big "if". What if there was love from his wife? People seem to assume that there wasn't. I don't know what they base that on.
But even if there wasn't, going elsewhere was a violation of his vows to "forsake all others". If you find yourself compelled to go to others, then you renounce your vows and divorce. That's bad, but adultery is worse.
1
Oh dear, this is such an old issue. People whose job is entertainment (movies, TV, stage, music, sports, etc.) may be very good at their JOB, but have we not learned to separate the performance from the performer? There have been many extraordinarily talented individuals in the entertainment industry who have been extraordinarily awful human beings. Meanness, predatoriness, lying, theft, violence, and down right sociopathy have all been represented in the entertainment industry. Mr. Cosby just happens to be a very high profile example.
2
Cosby was busy preaching his morality right up until he was caught with his pants down. His comeuppance is sadly deserved and needed.
2
Why not look to Paul Robeson and the like for your barrier breaking African American actors instead of a serial rapist?
4
or Michael B. Jordan--handsome, charismatic ,talented. Or Terrence Howard. Or Idris Elba, or Denzel Washington--the list is not short.
3
My favorite is probably Sydney Poitier, who I had the good fortune to meet once. An honorable, extremely intelligent, charismatic man; never heard a bad word said of him and I don't expect to.
2
Beautifully said - thank you for sharing.
We never saw Huxtable work a moment of his life in the show.... As a look back
Cosby and his show could have presented the most sinister of propaganda forms. Network and production execs -- insiders- would have to have known of Fat Alberts time extensive "adventures." For such a mass of incidences to have occurred and lay uncovered could lead to the conclusion that the acts never
happened. Whatever the truth -- something very foul abides.
Cosby and his show could have presented the most sinister of propaganda forms. Network and production execs -- insiders- would have to have known of Fat Alberts time extensive "adventures." For such a mass of incidences to have occurred and lay uncovered could lead to the conclusion that the acts never
happened. Whatever the truth -- something very foul abides.
1
We never saw the Dad in Father Knows Best working either, or Ozzie on Ozzie and Harriet. The shows focussed on home life. Dads would walk in after work to the goings-on in the house. That was the formula. I don't see the sinister propaganda as much as a formula for these situation shows. The sinister stuff was all behind the cameras, true, but not as organized as all that. Egomaniacs in Hollywood are everywhere. The execs, if they knew, may have been practicing the same kinds of sexual exploitation as Mr. Cosby. The legend of the casting couch is not fantasy.
4
Actually there are episodes with "Dr. Huxtable" working in his office which was on the first level of his home. Like Ms. Swarns I am also grieving and I watched every show with an eye for sociological and historical accuracy so I remember those moments when Dr. Huxtable was actually working. The show where he explains "transition" during labor to a lovingly naive husband was classic and reminiscent of his comedy routines describing Camille in labor.
1
What has happened now is the Cliff Huxtable legacy has been destroyed by his self-destructiveness and dangerous behavior, not to mention attitudes. Until it was part of public record, his legacy survived and flourished. Now however, he won't be influencing another generation—or any future generation because of those defects of character which he could not take responsibility for until someone else did.
2
Even before these revelations came out I was getting fed up with Cosby's preachiness about how young African Americans should behave and all of his holier-than-thou blather. It appears he should have been shining that flashlight of moral outrage on himself.
4
I have a similar reaction in regards to Woody Allen. Some deeply flawed human beings are great successes in their professions but as Bill Clinton exemplifies not exactly worthy role models in their personal lives.
12
They are both horrible human beings and in solidarity with their victims I will never again watch, let alone pay to watch, whatever "art" Allen's and Cosby's sick minds create. It is astonishing to me that people can continue to go see Allens films, as watch reruns of Cosby, knowing what we now know about them and their treatment of little girl children and women. These two people are criminals who have profoundly violated other human beings. Words cannot express my disgust.
5
You clearly stopped reading about the Woody Allen situation, because, despite his interest in younger women, we have been given a closer look into the actual happenings of his family and he was demonized far more than the facts suggest necessary by a woman whose rage over being rejected caused her to make scenes wherever she could find them
Now, if you'd like to stop watching his films because they're about a self-indulgent bunch of narcissists, I fully support you on that one
Now, if you'd like to stop watching his films because they're about a self-indulgent bunch of narcissists, I fully support you on that one
5
No Neil, I've read everything about the Allen case, including all the media coverage including VFs, Dylan's accounts, the trial notes, and the judges conclusions. They ordered Allen to have no further contact with the child, despite his asking for it. Just bc they couldn't reach the threshold for conviction does not mean the judges were not extremely concerned Allen had sexually violated Dylan as a child.
1
Not a huge fan of Bill Cosby for his stance against an art that was created by young people in his "lost" community which gives them a voice and allows them to feed their families. For this stance, is why Hannible did the joke heard round the world giving the topic momentum in the media. But it's always a good idea to unplug and ponder before drawing conclusions that propoganda has created for you. Remove thy self from the matrix, seat yourself closer to the stage. Analyze the accusations and not the the number of women involved. The only evidence is him saying he bought quaaludes with intentions on giving to women and having sex with them 40 years ago. So what does that have to do with 2005 when these things weren't available? We make fun of characters in movies passing out molly at parties, but what would that make film producers for thinking it's okay to show that sort of thing in a positive light hearted kind of way? My point is that giving someone a party drug doesn't imply rape. If this guy's image was this easily brought down without any actual proof or evidence in 2016, imagine what would have been done to him during the civil rights movement? I mean really people, quit this nonsense.
2
I am a white 50 year-old woman raised in the rural mid-west with no African-Americans in sight and I am grieving too! The Cosby Show gave me the opportunity connect with African Americans. Prior to the Cosby Show, I always felt that everyone had things in common, but knowing no black people and growing up in a rural area, I could never relate to Sanford and Son or The Jeffersons. I enjoyed the shows and could see the humanity in the characters, but I couldn't relate to them. The Cosby Show was so important in helping to bridge the racial gap, and I still feel it played a valuable role . . . in spite of Bill Cosby's immoral behavior. I just wish that the show could remain untainted; it deserves that. I wish someone with morals (clearly Bill Cosby has none) had been the creator and the star. Luckily. in the time that has passed since the show aired, we white people who may have not known many African Americans in our lives, have other robust, amazing examples we can grab on to help us get a grip on the African American culture. The news provides us disproportionally with the challenges, but the Obamas and others, show us another side. With a daughter now studying at UChicago, I have met so many black people and families I can connect with. Just as in the white community, there are segments of the black community I will never interact with or understand, but there are many many people who I do interact with and do understand - in spite of Cosby.
34
Too man whites (and blacks) of good will wanted the character to be the good black man, the one we could all love. Grieve not a drop Take back your feelings of grief and instead strengthen yourself against the duplicity of bad characters such as this one whose satisfaction is further increased by the sympathy and grief far too many Americans have for this man who is more monster than human. I only hope his justice and the justice for the women he violated, tortured and abused will be as great as the damage he has done to us all, whether we liked his personality as an actor or his phony role of a boring, upper middle class doctor. Absolve yourself and replace your grief with contempt and disgust because it is far more fitting. He does not deserve sympathy or grief.
2
Whether anyone ever watches another rerun of The Cosby Show, the legacy of Bill Cosby will be that he made the nation's white people look at black people as regular human beings just like them for over 60 years.
4
From 1970 to about 2000 we witnessed a golden age of television a golden age of black television that makes anything on tv today pale badly in comparison, the cosby show was part of that era. The central difference was what are we seeing today, some people whould say that the old era was fiction, fictitious families such as the evans, the jeffersons, the huxtables, the winslows, all made up. But look at what was made up and its social value, its lessons taught, those shows had a profound reedeming value that nothing on tv including shows created by black producers can match today.
For thirty years people understood that it was'nt enough to simply put a black face on television. the black community wanted shows that presented the full spectrum of the black experience, from tragedy to triumph poverty to success. Does "empire" do that what about "scandal" what exacty do you learn watching "real housewives of atlanta" or "love and hip hop". The culture has been turned inside out its a race to the bottom, crass disgusting behaviour has replaced any sense of mission that could truly empower a community.
Its not hard for me to seperate bill cosby from cliff huxtable, bill cosby's troubles today can't undo the joy i felt watching that show as a child so long ago, i learned a lot from it and all the other shows on tv back then. What are the children of today going to be talking about 25 years from now, here's a guess it won't be bill cosby.
For thirty years people understood that it was'nt enough to simply put a black face on television. the black community wanted shows that presented the full spectrum of the black experience, from tragedy to triumph poverty to success. Does "empire" do that what about "scandal" what exacty do you learn watching "real housewives of atlanta" or "love and hip hop". The culture has been turned inside out its a race to the bottom, crass disgusting behaviour has replaced any sense of mission that could truly empower a community.
Its not hard for me to seperate bill cosby from cliff huxtable, bill cosby's troubles today can't undo the joy i felt watching that show as a child so long ago, i learned a lot from it and all the other shows on tv back then. What are the children of today going to be talking about 25 years from now, here's a guess it won't be bill cosby.
I am white and I feel the same way as the author.
I will say this however, I noticed at the time that Cliff and Claire Huxtable almost never kissed on the air,I wondered at the time why that was , was there a reluctance on the part of Ms Rashad? Now with hindsight I wonder if she had a sense of something wrong even then.
I will say this however, I noticed at the time that Cliff and Claire Huxtable almost never kissed on the air,I wondered at the time why that was , was there a reluctance on the part of Ms Rashad? Now with hindsight I wonder if she had a sense of something wrong even then.
6
Dear CathyZ,
An interesting observation, but I think in most sitcoms of that era and previously, people didn't often kiss their spouses. Certainly any serious fooling around was completely offscreen, and whenever there was a kiss it'd be a big laughtrack "whoooOOOO" and the major plot device of the episode. I'd chalk it up to TV sensibilities rather than Ms. Rashad having caught on to something, I'm sure Mr. Cosby kept his druggings far out of sight of the cast of the show.
An interesting observation, but I think in most sitcoms of that era and previously, people didn't often kiss their spouses. Certainly any serious fooling around was completely offscreen, and whenever there was a kiss it'd be a big laughtrack "whoooOOOO" and the major plot device of the episode. I'd chalk it up to TV sensibilities rather than Ms. Rashad having caught on to something, I'm sure Mr. Cosby kept his druggings far out of sight of the cast of the show.
The writer summed my feelings up exactly! Loved the show, loved Bill Cosby and the messages he gave. Saw him perform a year before the allegations happened and he was fantastic. Whenever I see him now, I literally ache. Cosby played Dr. Huxtable on and off screen, at least in the public eye and I think that's why so many of us felt connected to him. Real fans will know that some episodes and characters were inspired by Cosby's life. Theo is based off of his real life son, Ennis, who was killed in 97. I dislike how much of this has played out in the media and find the show being removed from some stations hypocritical. What about Woody Allen or even R. Kelly? However, like the writer, it's too much for me to watch The Cosby show now or any of the work Cosby produced. I really don't want to hear more about it until it goes to trial.
1
When his obituary is written in a time not terribly far off, he won't be remembered primarily as "America's favorite dad", or as "one of the great humorists of the twentieth century" (a title which I believe he deserved). There will be no two-hour documentaries on the life and groundbreaking career of Bill Cosby - as is the case with Chaplin, Keaton, Richard Pryor and Lenny Bruce. There will be no more lifetime achievement awards for Bill. Nothing.
Instead he will be remembered, in the words of one of his alleged victims, as "the twentieth century's most successful serial rapist". This is too sad to comprehend.
Bill Cosby was my first comedic hero. In a lifetime that has been devoted to following the careers of comedians, I have had more-than-a-few. Ask anyone who knew me in high school. While my record collection was filled to the rafters with obligatory rock'n' roll, I possessed a sizable comedy collection. Bill's early Warner Brothers recordings were always a prominent part of that collection. When I was ten years old, the subject of the first book I ever purchased was Bill Cosby. It was a biography written for kids called, "Cool Cos". The only time in my life that I ever made the effort to see a comedian in concert was in 1983 when I took a date to see Bill at Radio City Music Hall. No celebrity scandal in my lifetime has broken my heart one/tenth as much as this one has.
I loved Bill Cosby.
http://tomdegan.blogspot.com/2016/01/cosbys-legacy-ashes.html
Tom Degan
Instead he will be remembered, in the words of one of his alleged victims, as "the twentieth century's most successful serial rapist". This is too sad to comprehend.
Bill Cosby was my first comedic hero. In a lifetime that has been devoted to following the careers of comedians, I have had more-than-a-few. Ask anyone who knew me in high school. While my record collection was filled to the rafters with obligatory rock'n' roll, I possessed a sizable comedy collection. Bill's early Warner Brothers recordings were always a prominent part of that collection. When I was ten years old, the subject of the first book I ever purchased was Bill Cosby. It was a biography written for kids called, "Cool Cos". The only time in my life that I ever made the effort to see a comedian in concert was in 1983 when I took a date to see Bill at Radio City Music Hall. No celebrity scandal in my lifetime has broken my heart one/tenth as much as this one has.
I loved Bill Cosby.
http://tomdegan.blogspot.com/2016/01/cosbys-legacy-ashes.html
Tom Degan
3
Just like other stars and politicians who have been revealed as flawed, Cosby let his fans down badly. I agree he was funny and I liked him too, if not as much as you did. Surely he thought he would never be caught or even believed he was doing nothing wrong. He is both talented and an exploiter. Sad, eh?
Scholars who study sociopaths are not as dumbfounded by the revelations of Cosby's predatory but successful, charming personality, nor even by his sermons to irresponsible minority youths and men. Sociopaths have no guilt or shame and while lacking in true empathy are able to be "sensitive" to the motives and intentions of their victims. They are highly manipulative con men (and women) who can rise high in the ranks of business, politics, religious organizations, the military, etc. These are the "successful" sociopaths as contrasted with sociopaths who are highly dysfunctional and populate prisons....which is where BC, a serial rapist, should be and should have been put.
6
I think Bill Cosby is the victim. Sorry. I agree w Blaise.
"We haven't torn down the monuments to Bill Clinton or JF Kennedy, we haven't demanded that all painting by Picasso be incinerated, that all the writings of Ernest Hemingway be banned."
"We haven't torn down the monuments to Bill Clinton or JF Kennedy, we haven't demanded that all painting by Picasso be incinerated, that all the writings of Ernest Hemingway be banned."
3
Cosby is still rich. He will likely spend no time in jail. "The" victim? Really?
With great fame and power comes responsibility if one wants to really live the good life. Cosby failed that test. The fact that others have also been immoral or done wrongs does not excuse any of them. Two wrongs (or twenty) do not make a "right." No one is banning Cosby's works. You can still buy his albums, see his shows on YouTube and read his writings.
With great fame and power comes responsibility if one wants to really live the good life. Cosby failed that test. The fact that others have also been immoral or done wrongs does not excuse any of them. Two wrongs (or twenty) do not make a "right." No one is banning Cosby's works. You can still buy his albums, see his shows on YouTube and read his writings.
1
My mom has Alzheimer's Disease and loved The Cosby Show. Even now she will ask me, "where's Cosby?" and I tear up as I promise, "he'll be on soon."
To me, Bill Cosby is a distended representative of all of us. My bible tells me there is good and evil in each of us and every second a war wages between the two.
What Bill Cosby admitted to doing in the unsealed deposition is beyond unconscionable. It was evil in it's rawest form. To hurt another person to satiate one's appetite for self-pleasure is billboard violation of what Jesus instructs us to do in Mark 12:31. "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
Cosby, by his own admission, quite clearly did not.
That does not diminish in any way the good he did for African-Americans by showing us every Thursday night that black families were just like white families.
It allowed me to overcome the systemic racism I was subjected to as a child growing up in western PA, where blacks and whites lived distinctly different lives in distinctly separate neighborhoods.
In that way, Bill Cosby, a deeply flawed man who committed egregious sins, helped me overcome one of my own.
I don't hate Bill Cosby. I weep for him, I pray for him and his victims, and I wonder how many of those publicly throwing daggers at him secretly harbor sins of their own?
To me, Bill Cosby is a distended representative of all of us. My bible tells me there is good and evil in each of us and every second a war wages between the two.
What Bill Cosby admitted to doing in the unsealed deposition is beyond unconscionable. It was evil in it's rawest form. To hurt another person to satiate one's appetite for self-pleasure is billboard violation of what Jesus instructs us to do in Mark 12:31. "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
Cosby, by his own admission, quite clearly did not.
That does not diminish in any way the good he did for African-Americans by showing us every Thursday night that black families were just like white families.
It allowed me to overcome the systemic racism I was subjected to as a child growing up in western PA, where blacks and whites lived distinctly different lives in distinctly separate neighborhoods.
In that way, Bill Cosby, a deeply flawed man who committed egregious sins, helped me overcome one of my own.
I don't hate Bill Cosby. I weep for him, I pray for him and his victims, and I wonder how many of those publicly throwing daggers at him secretly harbor sins of their own?
6
The deep flaw may be that he did love his neighbor as he loved himself and all of his predatory behavior may be commentary on that self-hatred.
I too share your grief and anger. I feel Mr. Cosby betrayed us all by his behavior off camera. Yet Dr. Huxtable remains a lovable, funny, caring husband and father. I am trying to hang on to that. Thank you for writing this, Rachel.
6
Ya. I read his book "Come On People" too; enjoyed it. Now I feel like a fool, he was a lying hypocrite the whole time. Perhaps we all were and are.
1
I found Cliff Huxtable far more believable than other TV dads. I always thought that was because, to some extent, Cosby was playing himself. Cosby clearly had an interest in children - he earned a Ed.D, he raised 5 children, and the genial loving persona he portrayed with Huxtable had appeared in other roles.
Sadly, it is possible for a man to be a loving, genial parent and a serial rapist. They compartmentalize their lives and view their children through a very different lens than they do young women who cross their path.
Sadly, it is possible for a man to be a loving, genial parent and a serial rapist. They compartmentalize their lives and view their children through a very different lens than they do young women who cross their path.
10
I share the grieving. A part of me believes that there are two Bill Cosby's. The amazing man who broke race barriers on TV and who is a truly gifted actor and comic genius. Then there's the man who took advantage of women in despicable ways. It's shattering to see someone so beloved who really did have it all--stoop so low to sexually assault women. Such pain.
33
Your words wrap up feelings, thoughts and truth...in a thoughtful, concise and appreciated manner. Thank you, Ann. I, too, share the grieving...and pain--as good memories return of those Thursday evenings we gathered as families from coast to coast...and beyond.
He's a good actor, I'll grant him that. That's why we're all sold on thinking he's as good and funny and wholesome and capable and upright as Dr Huxtable. But it's all just an act.
1
It is not unusual to confuse the actor with the character that he or she plays. For example, if an actor, who plays a dastardly villain on a soap opera but who is otherwise a really nice man, can innocently walk down the street and suddenly get smacked upside the head by an indignant purse-wielding old lady because of something that his villainous character did on the soap, then why wouldn't the same old lady (as a metaphor for the viewing public) think that the dastardly and villainous actor was, in real life, the really nice character that he plays on t.v.?
4
I still find it hard to believe that BC had to coerce women for sex. He had it all.
7
As a woman, I don't. Some men think all women are alike, that we all want the same things and that the things the majority of society finds attractive (money, looks, status, etc.), women will automatically find attractive. Think about yourself as a man -- is the only thing that attracts you to a woman, her looks? Or do you look at other factors, too? If so, then why expect women to be any different? You can be the most intelligent, handsome, rich, successful, kind person in the world and not attract the person you desire. That's what Shakespeare means when he said "All is fair in love and war."
2
Brian in MD says, "I still find it hard to believe that BC had to coerce women for sex" That's because Cosby didn't HAVE to coerce women for sex; he CHOSE to, for some fetishistic reason. I miss being able watch Cosby reruns, just as I miss being able to enjoy Woody Allen (the inevitable comparison). It's not that I'm boycotting them. But, like the writer of this piece, there are too many jokes and behaviors that, knowing what I know now, are just too creepy. Plus, both actors deliberately blurred the lines between their onscreen personas and their real-life personalities. (Sorry, guys, no after-the-facy "do-over" claims that you were just portraying a character.)
And, yes, I know the neither man has been convicted for sex crimes. But all I need are the facts of the Soon-Yi situation and the sheer number of Cosby accusers telling the same story to make laughing at their onscreen antics impossible.
And, yes, I know the neither man has been convicted for sex crimes. But all I need are the facts of the Soon-Yi situation and the sheer number of Cosby accusers telling the same story to make laughing at their onscreen antics impossible.
3
He didn't have to. He liked to.
5
We will never know the truth and nothing but the truth regarding allegations against Bill Cosby. Some comments imply that most or all of the women who now accuse him were just seeking some kind of "mentoring." I wonder. Without judging the accused or the accusers, one might still ask why so many many apparently intelligent, savvy women became involved with a married man who must have had a reputation. And since the women were apparently eager to be alone with Cosby, one might wonder why he felt it necessary in every or almost every instance to ply the women with drugs. Whatever the outcome, the Cosby Show as important television will have been tarnished for years to come. For many, separating the art from the artist will not be an easy task. And yet . . . so many of us have committed actions for which we should atone.
Doug Giebel
Big Sandy, Montana
Doug Giebel
Big Sandy, Montana
6
Maybe it's hard for you to wrap your head around but some of the women might have viewed him much as this author did -- as a father figure -- besides which from what I know, he told some women he could help them with their careers. So they believed him. Being along with a married man doesn't necessarily imply a woman wants or expects to be propositioned. If that were the case, a large number of the projects I've been involved with would not be possible since they were run by married men and often involved me working with them for long periods at odd hours. And a large number of my mentor were married older who promised to help -- and they did -- without victimizing me when I was a young woman.
7
And many innocent people have been accused and vilified, even imprisoned or burnt at the stake, for crimes they never committed. Before you talk about atonement, wait for some shred of evidence to support the 50+ accusations. Are you expecting it at this point? I've been waiting for over a year. He is not guilty in my mind, only accused, and accusations are not facts.
2
I did not watch the tv show, but remember Cosby's skits and the earlier spy show. He was great, I was a fan. Now... its difficult; as some say , he probably had two compartments. Why drug women when he could have slept with many just by being nice?? BUT, your 'apology' trying to say it was the women's fault is completely out of line. It was rape, period! You sound like all these machos who say, 'well, she asked for it because...." What if it was your daughter, sister, wife, mother? Would you say the same?
2
I doubt you'll have a hard time not watching The Cosby Show again. Who in their right minds would ever air anything from this sleaze again?
1
Yes, it's sad. I was younger then, and I enjoy the show too (and no, I'm not black). It's a good show, warm and fuzzy and funny. We all wish, and expect, life imitates art, or thereabout, not just for loving family dynamic, but for nurturing father figure, handsome characters that inspire romantic feelings, and more. But it's all just scripted emotions. Is there any wonder the show is called The "Cosby" Show, and not The Huxtables? Yes, audience like us wants to be sold on the illusion that Cosby *is* Huxtable. It's a nice dream, but it was never meant to be.
I haven't watched the show for a long time now even though it still brings fond memory. Maybe we are all too jaded now, or too old for fantasy, but with all that we know about Cosby the real character, I've lost the last ounce of innocence to ever watch that show again.
I haven't watched the show for a long time now even though it still brings fond memory. Maybe we are all too jaded now, or too old for fantasy, but with all that we know about Cosby the real character, I've lost the last ounce of innocence to ever watch that show again.
17
Bill Cosby had "adorable" sewed up long before Huxtables. In the decades before that, he wrote his own material as a stand-up comic, telling stories of children and families, of what it was like to look forward to have all the ice cream you can eat and then find out you had been betrayed by those who knew quite well you wouldn't be able to swallow after that tonsillectomy. What it was to be the fat kid. As an artist, he did a lot more than just read somebody else's lines. And he did it at a time when it changed public perception of what a black man's possibilities were, If he has sinned he is not alone.
4
My point is not that Cosby mouthing someone else's script. He could very well be writing ALL the scripts of the Cosby Show, for all we know. What matters, is whether he really can emulate Dr Huxtable in real life, or not. Well, apparently he's very far from it. End of story.
1
Bill Cosby is an artist, not a TV character. He was always an artist and never was a character. He joins Charles Dickens and Michael Landow, for two, who made careers of painting the portrait of the archetypical family man but did not live the part.
It is always sad when an athlete, actor, politician or other celebrity is discovered to have feet of clay. Money, fame and power change people or maybe just bring out what had been kept hidden plus these factors affect the way people interact with wealthy and famous stars. Would these young women have gone to the home of a janitor for dinner? I think not. I was not a teen when the Cosby Show aired so I didn't idolize Cosby and I also didn't think that he was Cliff Huxtable.
I would like to know what Lisa Bonet thinks about the scandal. She appears to be the most likely person on the show to have been approached by Cosby for fun and games. I believe she is keeping her views to herself though.
I would like to know what Lisa Bonet thinks about the scandal. She appears to be the most likely person on the show to have been approached by Cosby for fun and games. I believe she is keeping her views to herself though.
8
A seriously nice article, I felt it from start to finish. We too sat waiting every week for Dr. H and Co..... I am wondering how to separate both, and this article does justice in how I am feeling.
21
I enjoyed the Cosby show as well even though I do not resemble the characters - but it was well written and not predictable like 99% of TV. I tend to disassociate the character from the actor. I've seen enough interviews with artists, actors, musicians to realize that even though I really enjoy the art I do not have to 'like' the person behind it. For that reason I would continue to watch the Cosby show without guilt, except for the fact that residuals would go to the man who created it.
Many people are deeply flawed and everyone has to wrestle with their relationship to them. What they create is one thing, who they are is another - for me the two can co-exist, as they must.
Many people are deeply flawed and everyone has to wrestle with their relationship to them. What they create is one thing, who they are is another - for me the two can co-exist, as they must.
23
Despite all the mean comments berating Ms. Swarns' equating the star with the character, she makes a very valid point. For instance, many straight actors play gay roles and the reverse is also true, yet people confuse the role with the real person.
So relax folks and accept the article for what it is. A bit of nostalgia. We white people had the likes of "My Three Sons", "Donna Reed" and "Andy Griffith". To have a family friendly show with black actors in those similar roles was quite a leap forward, no matter how you politicize it.
So relax folks and accept the article for what it is. A bit of nostalgia. We white people had the likes of "My Three Sons", "Donna Reed" and "Andy Griffith". To have a family friendly show with black actors in those similar roles was quite a leap forward, no matter how you politicize it.
35
Interestingly, Donna Reed played a prostitute in "From Here to Eternity," and Andy Griffith was a malevolent Rush Limbaugh-like radio personality in "A Face in the Crowd." But the likable characters they played are the ones we remember.
2
It was a fictional tv series and I Spy from an earlier time was a fictional tv series but Playboy After Dark was a reality interview series hosted by Hugh Hefner and Bill Cosby was a frequent guest. Innocent enough. And when Dizzy Gillespie died and the big memorial service was held in NYC,Bill Cosby could not break away from filming that memorable Leonard Part 6 epic to attend. The dark side of Bill Cosby is not pretty and the writer is a fool to use a sweet fictional tv series as a base for emotional conflict about a character and a very troubled wealthy man in his twilight years losing his legacy.
2
You've shared some unflattering tidbits about Bill Cosby, but where's the evidence that he's a rapist? There is none. You say his dark side is not pretty? What do you know about his dark side? Stuff you've read, with no reality to support it. You do not know he's guilty so stop acting like you do.
6
Read the affidavit where he admits he drugged the women and then "had sex with them"—If you have intercourse with an unconscious person that you have made unconscious, it is rape. That's how he got convicted, not hearsay. Hard proof.
5
Bill Cosby has been crucified by feminists. It is a political movement to hold him up for ridicule. I keep hoping somebody somewhere will fight back.
Unlike other well-known "abusers of women" he had no real legacy. We haven't torn down the monuments to Bill Clinton or JF Kennedy, we haven't demanded that all painting by Picasso be incinerated, that all the writings of Ernest Hemingway be banned.
But feminists have more or less demanded that Bill Cosby's TV shows be banned from the airwaves, at least if available at all, no proceeds from them should accrue to Cosby. That in spite of the fact that Cosby is merely accused by 57 women (the number changes from day to day) with no trial.
Feminists would like us to replace actual trials by guilt via media assassination. Why?
I suspect it is the "hypocrisy" of a program that championed family values for blacks, you know responsibility for your children.
This is a sore point of liberals. The way welfare is supposed to work is make the father superfluous so he can be expelled from the family. Then perhaps he will be so frustrated he lands in prison. (The US has 14 times the rate of incarceration of Japan, one way of getting back at uppity men.)
I forgot to add. He might be guilty. But that is unknowable since the evidence has been expunged with the passage of time. Just like 48 children were mistaken when they charged the McMartin's with devil worship, 57 women could be wrong. (They waited too long for us to know.)
Unlike other well-known "abusers of women" he had no real legacy. We haven't torn down the monuments to Bill Clinton or JF Kennedy, we haven't demanded that all painting by Picasso be incinerated, that all the writings of Ernest Hemingway be banned.
But feminists have more or less demanded that Bill Cosby's TV shows be banned from the airwaves, at least if available at all, no proceeds from them should accrue to Cosby. That in spite of the fact that Cosby is merely accused by 57 women (the number changes from day to day) with no trial.
Feminists would like us to replace actual trials by guilt via media assassination. Why?
I suspect it is the "hypocrisy" of a program that championed family values for blacks, you know responsibility for your children.
This is a sore point of liberals. The way welfare is supposed to work is make the father superfluous so he can be expelled from the family. Then perhaps he will be so frustrated he lands in prison. (The US has 14 times the rate of incarceration of Japan, one way of getting back at uppity men.)
I forgot to add. He might be guilty. But that is unknowable since the evidence has been expunged with the passage of time. Just like 48 children were mistaken when they charged the McMartin's with devil worship, 57 women could be wrong. (They waited too long for us to know.)
9
I am a female... and I have to agree to a lot of what you wrote... there is no excuse for women creating stories to increase a media frenzy, and indeed, judge him before a trial...
5
Spot on
2
I think there is ample evidence for the charges against Cosby. Is there some reason you object to holding him up to ridicule? We're you objecting when he was held up as a role model? Cosby is entirely a media creation. Objecting to the media changing the character he plays in its story narrative is pretty silly.
The old Cosby character was the paragon of virtue. Now he plays a dirty old man. Who cares?
The old Cosby character was the paragon of virtue. Now he plays a dirty old man. Who cares?
2
I've always wondered why a younger woman, or a girl, would visit an older man, alone in his quarters. Testimonies and reports from the victims all seem to suggest that his mentoring turned sexual quickly. If they were opposed to the visit devolving into sex, why didn't they get up and leave? On the other hand if they were drugged immediately upon entering, e.g., "Let me get you something to drink.", then the assault is totally on him and he's a monster. But again, why go with an older man alone, into his quarters?
3
This is how men can keep the power locked up within their group. They can pass it from one man to another, as long as women who dare to try to be mentored and championed have to fear being sexually assaulted if they do what men can do without thinking.
13
What century and what planet do you come from? why blame a woman visiting an older man alone -- are these men insatiable uncontrollable sex addicts that cannot be trusted with a young woman? Your premise is laughable
5
The inability to separate actors from the characters they portray is part of the culture we live in. Try separating Donald Trump from the character he plays on TV. People live in a permanent state of suspension of disbelief. And part of that state is denial.
10
i once said to a friend [over 25 yrs ago] "i wouldn't admire the huxtables if they were white! i found them to be phony, strivers trying too hard to be 'perfect'. nothing real was going on there. they were not a realistic role model for anyones family.
6
Yes, the sitcom format in America then was cutey-pie conformity (now the people speak so fast they sound like adult Smurfs): "Oops I dropped the spaghetti! Tee-hee". Simple-minded is simple-minded. I didn't want to be a Huxtable and I surely didn't want to be a Brady Bunch kid. I wanted to be George Jefferson—or Weezie.
2
Walking a narrow line here, but what struck me about the show was how much it reminded me of previous white incarnations of TV families, going all the way back to 'Father Knows Best,' 'Ozzie and Harriet,' 'Leave it to Beaver,' etc. Granted, I didn't watch every episode, but I watched enough to think it was an updated version of those shows, with a working/professional mother and other concessions to the era it was produced. I may be wrong, since I didn't watch it religiously, but it never seemed to deal with the realities/difficulties of being an upper middle class black family. Or, if it did, it didn't appear to be often. It replicated classic family sitcoms. I'm rather sorry Ms. Swarns believed in it so much, because it wasn't any more "real" than Betty, Bud and Kitten.
10
It was exactly the power of of Cosby's charm that paved way for his criminality Not unlike the menschyness of Madoff where people eagerly entrusted their life savings. The exploitation of women is not as simple as date rape. Each of these women came to him to help them with their careers. They were seeking mentorship, and guidance when they came to Cosby. Asa commercial producer, I was part of Cosby's image making machine. I knew something was askew when he took long breaks for his trysts in his trailer, mandating that wardrobe typically rented be sent to his home, and outright yelling at the kids to whom his was endearing when the camera rolled. Gratefully we no longer have to put our faith in a fabricated character for a role model of African -American success and nobility. We can now look to our very president, a man who is authentically principled.
37
He's an artist. Artist. Artists lie. They don't know what they claim to, and they're not who they pretend to be. This is not news. Plato said so, banned them from his Republic. on the other hand, everybody since Plato has agreed, Plato was too harsh. At least, all of us with an imagination have agreed. But it's naive not to know that though "poetry may be truer than history," still, it's at best a higher truth -- what Dr Johnson called a "Consecrated lie" -- and it's not really true.
2
Artists lie? Only artists???
3
I realize it is now impossible to say anything good about Cosby without making oneself a target, but here goes:
He acted with Robert Culp in the sixties "I Spy" tv series, in which he fought for and got guarantees that his character would carry a gun and be an equal partner with his white co-star in their missions. Then of course there was the massive popularity of "The Cosby Show". That show presented black people as living successful middle class lives.
So he played a rather important part in getting us ready for the later visibility and success of Denzel Washington, Eddy Murphy, Martin Lawrence, Larry Fishburne, Terrence Howard and so on. He wasn't the only powerful black celebrity of course. But he was an important one and "The Cosby Show" presented a picture that made it comfortable for white audiences to relate to the activities of a black family. Things like this probably played some small role in making it possible to elect Barak Obama as president.
I'm not saying those actors would not have been successful without him, but he played some part in paving the way. An important part of his legacy is positive even if it can no longer carry his name.
He acted with Robert Culp in the sixties "I Spy" tv series, in which he fought for and got guarantees that his character would carry a gun and be an equal partner with his white co-star in their missions. Then of course there was the massive popularity of "The Cosby Show". That show presented black people as living successful middle class lives.
So he played a rather important part in getting us ready for the later visibility and success of Denzel Washington, Eddy Murphy, Martin Lawrence, Larry Fishburne, Terrence Howard and so on. He wasn't the only powerful black celebrity of course. But he was an important one and "The Cosby Show" presented a picture that made it comfortable for white audiences to relate to the activities of a black family. Things like this probably played some small role in making it possible to elect Barak Obama as president.
I'm not saying those actors would not have been successful without him, but he played some part in paving the way. An important part of his legacy is positive even if it can no longer carry his name.
22
Dear Blaine,
I think you're right, and it's important to remember that bad people can do good things, things to be valued by later generations. Thomas Jefferson owned slaves and had many illegitimate children by them, but his ideas in our founding years were irreplaceable and vital. Pablo Picasso revolutionized art and some of his sculpture still brings tears to my eyes (really), but he was an abuser of women. Other examples are legion, often people have a negative side but their actual accomplishments should still stand, I think.
I think you're right, and it's important to remember that bad people can do good things, things to be valued by later generations. Thomas Jefferson owned slaves and had many illegitimate children by them, but his ideas in our founding years were irreplaceable and vital. Pablo Picasso revolutionized art and some of his sculpture still brings tears to my eyes (really), but he was an abuser of women. Other examples are legion, often people have a negative side but their actual accomplishments should still stand, I think.
Suppose Mozart was the creep portrayed in Amadeus. Does that make his music any less exquisite? Or that Woody Allen married his daughter, blah, blah, blah. His movies still are as remarkable as they are. Artists are flawed beings just as the rest of us. May their art live on.
8
mozart was not a creep in amadeus.
8
He was not her father. He was not even her stepfather. He never even resided in the Farrow household, so he wasn't even the male head-of-household. She was already 20 years old. Still creepy, but get your facts straight.
3
I am sad as well, but for a different reason. The Huxtables were an example of "how to be parents." They modeled how to have real conversations with your children. They demonstrated how to provide emotional support your children's education and aspirations. So, it was no longer a middle/upper class secret. There it was - a example for all to see in the form of entertainment.
4
For anyone in an unrepresented minority, visibility is a powerful thing. When black people were seldom seen in early television, people would call their friends and neighbors to say "Sammy Davis is on Ed Sullivan" etc. People sneer at the play and the film of "Boys in the Band" today, but there was a time when gay people asked each other "Which one were you?" and were thrilled to see any recognition of their existance on the planet at all. Of all the advancements we have made, of all the knowledge and awareness people have they never used to have at the same age, I sure wish today's generation could get it that there was a life and a culture before they were born.
4
Actors on television and in film are PRETENDING. Any emotional resonance you may feel while viewing these people is in you, not them. They are just as fake as the commercials that divide the shows.
7
It's not that they are pretending, they are as the writer says "inhabiting" a role. Suspending your disbelief is part of the process of becoming involved in a drama, comedy, or other performance. And, just because characters resonate with people doesn't mean they don't know it's a performance. But it speaks to them.
7
Time to be looking at who came before Dr. Huxtable; Robert Guillaume in Benson. Smart, real, and upwardly mobile.
4
Diahann Carroll in "Julia," came before Bill Cosby but the writer is probably too young to have watched the show.
6
Good point, Kate. The problem with Julia (as I remember) was that she was too good to be true. Cliff Huxtable had his flaws.
Is there a need to "separate"? Or are you just searching for sensationalism for your writings? Has Mr. Cosby been found guilty of some crime about which you know nothing? Should your writings be based on facts, and not opinions?
I expect better research and facts from the NYT...........I was never a fan of his TV shows, but I enjoyed his stand-up routines. I was not searching for a way to denigrate yet another TV/Movie performer.
I expect better research and facts from the NYT...........I was never a fan of his TV shows, but I enjoyed his stand-up routines. I was not searching for a way to denigrate yet another TV/Movie performer.
3
What article did you read? He admitted under oath that he gave quaaludes to women before having sex with them. That is a fact.
Rather than simply bashing Mr. Cosby, the writer credits Bill Cosby with telling a story about a loving Black family, a story that resonated with many people because that story was hardly ever told. Before Cosby Show it was as if successful and positive Black family life could not exist! It's hard now to have the actor to whom so many people are grateful be shown by his own words to be responsible for such ugly misogynist behavior.
Rather than simply bashing Mr. Cosby, the writer credits Bill Cosby with telling a story about a loving Black family, a story that resonated with many people because that story was hardly ever told. Before Cosby Show it was as if successful and positive Black family life could not exist! It's hard now to have the actor to whom so many people are grateful be shown by his own words to be responsible for such ugly misogynist behavior.
8
Thanks for this. I'm not black, nor did I particularly enjoy The Cosby Show. But I *did* appreciate the broader message, which I continue to believe in. And the tarnishing of that message is indeed something to grieve.
4
Forget Cliff Huxtable. When I was down or out of sorts, I'd watch old Cosby comedy monologues. He MADE US EAT THAT CHOCOLATE CAKE! That's not my mother. That's some little old lady trying to get into heaven. Would always make me laugh and brighten my mood. I feel like I have been punched in the gut and will never be able to listen to those routines again.
3
I didn't have any gay friends and was uncomfortable around the gay people I saw. The 1988 movie "Tidy Endings" with Harvey Fierstein and Stockard Channing changed that. I can't remember the exact scene, but I remember watching it and seeing Fierstein with his partner and for the first time realizing that he LOVED that man. The discomfort I felt (because I was focused on the act of sex) was replaced with a lightning bolt of understanding. Great movie.
3
There is something inherently wrong with the medium television. On stage we know its an actor. The silver screen a star. Put em on the idiot box, and people start believing in the fiction way too much. Protect your children, and kill your television.
4
I hope you can soon set aside your grief for the fictional fantastic dad, and at some point grieve for the dozens of victims (many who were teenagers when assaulted) of the predator who played him.
It will be difficult to convict him given the legal constraints, and if he's not convicted, many will call him innocent. They will wrong.
It will be difficult to convict him given the legal constraints, and if he's not convicted, many will call him innocent. They will wrong.
5
I think the grief is part of the process. As someone who was raised Catholic and has a close family member who is a survivor of sexual abuse by a priest, I can understand the writer's message, that it is hard to reconcile our experience of someone, or even their public image with the reality of what they have done or been accused of doing. That grief doesn't diminish the wrong committed against the victims. It doesn't mean that the victims deserve any less understanding or effort on our part to help them.
4
This is a bit much. A person is not the character he played as an actor. It was a great show. But now we know the hard truth about the real man and the character you connected with on tv.
21
If the person is not the character that he played, should we demean the character because the actor is a bad person? I think quite poorly of Bill Cosby, but the character Cliff Huxtable is an admirable man.
I'm sorry, but what do YOU think you now know about the CHARACTER we saw on TV? That he was false? Or that he was not the same as the actor who portrayed him? Do you think they are one in the same?
Renee, it's "one AND the same".
Get over it.
It doesn't matter if his costume was funny sweaters or religious robes or an athletic uniform. We now know who and what he is, an admitted sexual predator.
It doesn't matter if his costume was funny sweaters or religious robes or an athletic uniform. We now know who and what he is, an admitted sexual predator.
9
He is a horrific fraud that pulled the wool over nearly everyone's eyes for many years. I hope he rots in prison and never sees the light of day.
7
No evidence exists to support what you've posted. Hope what you want, your hopes do not relate to Fact.
3
Well @Carver, given that he admits in court documents to being a serial adulterer while posing as an exemplary father and husband, even a role model for Afro-american men, he is by definition a fraud. The only thing to be resolved is whether he is also a serial rapist. That has not yet proven in court.
5
What troubles me about Mr. Cosby's story is that he built a significant amount of her career around stories of compassion, kindness and patience. He did portray himself as the father figure and gentle knight in shining armous, defender of wives, mothers and daughters and role model to young men and boys everywhere. In other words, he clears knew the difference between right and wrong, and it's definition was universal - except it seems that is did not apply to Mr. Cosby himself. Of that, I am truly saddened. He could have lived whatever years he has left on this earth, a revered entertainer of advocate of children's education. He is now left with nothing. What a waste. At least his victims have been validated, but it sounds like they also have had to mourn the loss of the person who they thought they could trust.
6
"He did portray himself as the father figure and gentle knight in shining armous, defender of wives, mothers and daughters and role model to young men and boys everywhere."
In other words, he was, and likely continues to be, a superb actor. Acting is portraying that which is not yourself. He did really well at it.
In other words, he was, and likely continues to be, a superb actor. Acting is portraying that which is not yourself. He did really well at it.
2
You have to wonder what it was like for his victims to watch that show. Then to powerlessly watch the ascendancy of a person deemed by everyone to be a role model for young men.
31
Correction: He has no "victims". He has "accusers," with no facts to back their stories. Learn the difference between the one word and the other.
1
In the civil lawsuit filed against him by Andrea Constand, Mr Cosby gave sworn testimony that he gave Quaalude to Ms Constand and other unidentified women to facilitate sex. These were his own words. They are indeed victims AND accusers.
6
Legally, you are absolutely correct.
In the real world he has victims.
Get real.
In the real world he has victims.
Get real.
6
I’d be the last person in the world to release Mr. Cosby from his moral obligation not as Mr. Huxtable to us, just as Mr. Cosby the person. Fictional characters never go to heaven, folks do. In the world of fantasy and fiction where those actors and their roles operate, all part of the power of the stars they admire so much, it’s hard to separate proper and improper human behavior. When does the actor I so admire as a real person becomes, well. an actor? I hope the courts are able to separate fiction from facts so we can move on and can place credit or blame where they justly belong. Sanity has to be restored.
2
As a therapist, I used to use the Huxtables as a great example. They presented to their children a united, intelligent, amused front. They displayed strength and confidence as parents. I can no longer do that because, even if I allude to the character, not the actor, I am reminding people of an apparent (or alleged) sex offender while talking about parenting. I share the writer's grief. I am white and yet I loved the non-stereotyped image of upper middle class blacks.
6
I did the same thing with my clients but would not dream of using those episodes as a jumping point for discussion and learning anymore.
As a therapist, you should learn to differentiate between story and fact. I suggest you try another profession. (And, wow, impressive that you loved the Huxtables even though you are white - that's just too sad.)
1
He's a master manipulator and seducer. He's an example you can use with your patients who can't understand how a seemingly nice, kind beloved man could do monstrous things.
3
Sometimes when we wear our own eyeglasses we are unable to see God in the midst of ours or another's earthly problems. In contemplating the problems Mr. Bill Cosby finds himself publicly dealing with ,I am reminded to reflect on God's love for all of us, His children. That unwavering love that created all of us and showed the depths of that passion on a cross bearing the blood and soul of one's only son ,Jesus. I am reminded that cross represents the forgiveness of all sins past, present and future. I am reminded how we are simply walking with Mr. Cosby in his life facts . Facts that God always saw and held to that cross, waiting for the day to reveal such in His gracious love for Mr. Cosby. Keeping all of these thoughts in my heart, I am humbled in and at our arrogance in not seeing ourselves, at times, also as beneficiaries of Jesus's blood and love. The point is , all we can do is pray that Mr. Cosby and all involved find the grace of Christ in paving out their way to him or back to him as the door to eternal life.
2
it doesn't matter the man's color...the man had the power to molest and take advantage of young women! He was a pig! I have young females in my family...I will feel safer when he is jailed!
2
Which God?
5
We are unable to see God because myths aren't real.
3
None. All that is required is to know the difference between fiction and reality.
4
There was actually an article written some time ago which compared Dr Huxtable with Mr. Hyde and it is warned against Mr. Hyde. It is easy to simply listen or read what is said but to really know the truth, it is necessary to do our own search on things like Tommy Smothers and Cosby, read the story about Cosby and the Tonight show intern, or read how Cosby had to be forced to attend the funeral of Bill Culp, who gave Cosby his start in show business by refusing to do the I Spy series unless Cosby was hired for that. You may even hear about when he tried to get Wendy Williams fired, but the truth is that the media has protected the image of Cosby as much as all of his fellow comedians who talked about this side of Cosby for years until one comedian finally called him a rapist in public.
7
I was so happy for the black community to have such a strong icon in Mr. Huxtable/Bill Cosby. I am so saddened by the news, as well as, the severe disappointment in the reality of his true life character. It is disappointing to all races, because of the many people who did enjoy his show. No, he never had a personal commitment to anyone, but did have a responsibility to behave like a good citizen. Let me ask you, is that asking too much?
4
Correction: You do not know, any more than I do, "the reality of [Cosby's] true life character". You've read a lot of trash and you buy into it, that's all. Reasoning people require evidence.
2
I would love to believe he is innocent, but the evidence is in the numbers. Sorry
5
The Cosby Show was just entertainment. But the Fat Albert series was explicitly meant to teach morality and goodness to children. I used to think of it as a creative gift, kind of like an edgy Mister Rogers. Now, I don't know. So sad.
5
I remember him mostly as a comedian, that and Fat Albert. His depiction of Noah brought out the humanity in the biblical character. His gift was the ability to draw out the humor of life's situations, family, growing up, sibling rivalry etc.
We all fall into foolish things from time to time in this life. This one is quite shocking, but maybe temptation and fame led him astray. Maybe losing his son left him like a ship without a rudder. Who knows? Surely we should hate the sin, I would pray that he repents of his ways, but also reflect that there are many things that we do not understand and if we _really_ require an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, we would all be walking around eyeless and toothless.
We all fall into foolish things from time to time in this life. This one is quite shocking, but maybe temptation and fame led him astray. Maybe losing his son left him like a ship without a rudder. Who knows? Surely we should hate the sin, I would pray that he repents of his ways, but also reflect that there are many things that we do not understand and if we _really_ require an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, we would all be walking around eyeless and toothless.
4
Mr Cosby's son was murdered in 1997. The allegations of sexual assault go back to the mid 60s. If true, Mr Cosby lost his rudder long before that tragic event.
6
That's a gigantic IF. You should accept that you don't know what you don't know, and are in no position to speak of Cosby's rudder.
2
When I was at university, my American literature professor used to emphasize the importance of separating the art from the artist. Ms. Swarns' memories of Dr. Huxtable should not be tarnished by the artist who created him. As with so many other artistic creations throughout history, Dr. Huxtable rose above and stood for things that his creator may not have been able to embody himself. The fact that Bill Cosby is not a perfect human being and does not represent our collective moral standards, does not make Dr. Huxtable and his family any less significant in the American television pantheon. It is unfortunate that the show's reruns have been cancelled on various television networks and stations because people are unable to separate the show's creator from the show itself. We expect our artists to be above the fray, but they are, after all, human. Let art speak for itself, unblemished by the frailties of its creators.
5
In this specific case, there may be a good reason to stop the re-runs even if we fully accept your premise (which is debatable). The art and artist cannot be financially separated: Cosby gets royalties for every re-run.
3
And advertisers will pull out of a show if they think that the actor or the message of the show will lead to a drop in their advertising dollars. The Cosby Show was probably pulled because the advertisers knew that fewer people would watch the show, which would be a waste of their money and taint them by association whether he was guilty or not.
Although I am white, as I read this lament, I thought of an African-American family that can still be a role model. They're right in front of us, and occupy the White House.
284
Thanks for the gentle but brilliant reminder!
13
The movie 'Her' profoundly examined the connection between virtual and human life, and this article reminded me that storytelling, from time immemorial, can move, inspire, teach, comfort, sway, amaze, humor, and change us. It can even happen that we are more affected by fictional characters than people we know. Most of us lead little lives and we need heroes and role models --and villains, too-- in order to fully examine the range of our potential and our nature. Why not expect to be confounded by the line between truth and fiction when (thankfully) that line is so blurry?
2
I understand the pain and feel it myself, since I always liked Cosby. But I could still watch his shows-- the actor is not the fictional character and I rarely spend much time wondering if a character I see is anything like the actor who plays him ( or her).
2
But how would you feel to have your daughter acting on the show with him? Terrifying.
1
We all come to earth with a mission. Some to display goodness, others for victimhood—just for the rest of us to learn. The ones who murder: Do they not also show us something we need to learn, at their supposed expense. So much we do not know or understand at this time. But onward we go, whether we are aware or not.
1
I used to be shocked by the moral disparity between what high profile people do publicly and privately. But it's so common, I now know better.
6
To all those lecturing about our need to separate truth from fiction, or characters from real people: I'm pretty sure the author knows that. She was hoping that Bill would be like his character (why not? he seemed pretty similar for so long), but what she is truly grieving is the loss of the character, who brought her much joy and presented an image and model that she otherwise found lacking. It's easy enough for people to say that you shouldn't look to fiction for models, but people do it all the time and it's a fine enough thing to do, especially if you find that the way society typically represents you, or people like you or who look similar to you or are grouped into a similar group as you, as a negative image that you feel has nothing to do with you. These images do make a difference, and it's foolish to insist that fiction and reality stay on their sides of the line. It's also condescending to the author, who surely knows the difference between an actor and a character. She's describing the complexity of the relationship, and the way that a disgraced actor disgraces his character too - a character that was built on respect and decency.
42
Rachel Swarns: I never felt, while watching The Cosby Show, that the man who created and played Cliff Huxtable had an obligation to me to BE Cliff Huxtable when the cameras weren't rolling. If I had felt that way, I would have been a moron. You felt no grief watching Cosby enter the courthouse? That's because your mind was on your career. It's because you participate in a media campaign whose intent is on keeping the masses engaged - not informed, not educated, just riled up - and that's why the public's exposed to this drivel you've written. You do not know, and neither do I, whether the man you saw entering the courthouse ever raped anyone or not. Go back to Square One, and see if you can find a way to make this story work on behalf of potential victims of sexual assault, rather than fueling ignorance.
8
No idea even what your point is here, seeming to simultaneously defend Cosby's innocence, then support his and other victims, but your slur against Ms. Swarns is unconsciounsable and crude. Go back to square one yourself.
66
Huh? Uhhm, Swarms DOES seem to have felt grief for Cosby. "Bill Cosby looked haggard and old as he stumbled on his way to the courthouse. And when his mug shot flashed across my screen, I felt a sharp stab of grief." She also ends the article by stating that she's still grieving. Whether Cosby sexually assaulted the women who have accused him or not does not take away from the fact that the entire affair has tarnished his legacy, and, for those of us who viewed the Huxtables as a family that made it just a little bit easier for blacks to navigate American society without any positive family role models in the media, the accusations and his responses in his depositions are hard to handle. That's what Swarms seems to be saying in her article. If you disagree, then so be it. But the ad hominem attacks are completely unnecessary and undermine whatever your point is supposed to be.
64
She felt no grief watching Cosby enter the courthouse--not because "her mind was on her career" (honestly, what twisted perspective does THAT come from???)--but because she's capable of distinguishing the actor from the character.
As for "you do not know... whether the man entering the courthouse ever raped anybody or not"--hello, the part where he admitted under oath that he did escaped you? His defense is that rom his perspective, it wasn't rape. (One of his comments was, effectively, "hey you had an orgasm so how could it be rape even though you were immobilized"?)
40+ women have a different perspective than he does--one more in line with the law.
As for "you do not know... whether the man entering the courthouse ever raped anybody or not"--hello, the part where he admitted under oath that he did escaped you? His defense is that rom his perspective, it wasn't rape. (One of his comments was, effectively, "hey you had an orgasm so how could it be rape even though you were immobilized"?)
40+ women have a different perspective than he does--one more in line with the law.
25
Although I'm not African-American, I wanted Dr. and Mrs. Huxtable to be my parents. I, too, was crushed as the actor's foibles destroyed my ideal television couple.
46
Critical thinking uber alles.
As a child, I was an enormous fan of Laura Ingalls Wilder's Little House books.
Then they were made into a television show.
Instead of wonderfully specific stories focusing on the actualities of frontier survival (how to dig a well, sewing projects, confrontations with native Americans, scarlet fever), the tv series presented stories that were much less unique, much less imaginative, much more tired recycled tv junk storylines.
One I remember in particular - how horribly MEAN-SPIRITED the writing/storyline was towards the Ingalls girls' nemesis, rich Nellie Olson. Really mean!
Discerning that mean-spiritedness, criticizing the show to myself, understanding my responses - that was a big lesson for me as a kid.
I didn't watch much of the THE COSBY SHOW because it turned me off immediately.
The fundamentally conservative *message* that Cliff Huxtable and his crew were dishing out upset me - I think Bill Cosby's black-folk-got-to-pull-up-their-pants-and-themselves-by-the-bootstraps *message* filtered thru the *family fun* loud and clear - and I was NOT buying any.
The message was rancid then, and at this late date, positively putrid.
As a child, I was an enormous fan of Laura Ingalls Wilder's Little House books.
Then they were made into a television show.
Instead of wonderfully specific stories focusing on the actualities of frontier survival (how to dig a well, sewing projects, confrontations with native Americans, scarlet fever), the tv series presented stories that were much less unique, much less imaginative, much more tired recycled tv junk storylines.
One I remember in particular - how horribly MEAN-SPIRITED the writing/storyline was towards the Ingalls girls' nemesis, rich Nellie Olson. Really mean!
Discerning that mean-spiritedness, criticizing the show to myself, understanding my responses - that was a big lesson for me as a kid.
I didn't watch much of the THE COSBY SHOW because it turned me off immediately.
The fundamentally conservative *message* that Cliff Huxtable and his crew were dishing out upset me - I think Bill Cosby's black-folk-got-to-pull-up-their-pants-and-themselves-by-the-bootstraps *message* filtered thru the *family fun* loud and clear - and I was NOT buying any.
The message was rancid then, and at this late date, positively putrid.
10
Very interesting perspective, CR. As a black woman who was very young when "The Cosby Show" first aired, I really hadn't paid much attention to the subtle messages that Cosby later blatantly revealed regarding his theory on bootstrap success. Looking back, you're probably right.
4
The message was fine, the messenger was putrid.
2
That's the truth!
1
It's going to have to be OK to hold on to Huxtable in our memories, for now, no matter the allegations against Cosby.
If he's in fact secretly a serial rapist all this time, It would also be a crime against the audience, and against the great show & the superb costars.
It was a crime against Seinfeld when the truth about Michael Richards was blurted by him all over the gem of Cosmo Kramer & the show we so enjoyed.
And I still can't forgive Woody Allen for marrying his daughter...
What is the matter with these most talented people, corrupted by success or sickos all along?
(But when it comes to O.J., there is just no possible redemption of the athlete's performances, everything OJ is forever psychopathic, I'm aghast that story is being resurrected for primetime).
If he's in fact secretly a serial rapist all this time, It would also be a crime against the audience, and against the great show & the superb costars.
It was a crime against Seinfeld when the truth about Michael Richards was blurted by him all over the gem of Cosmo Kramer & the show we so enjoyed.
And I still can't forgive Woody Allen for marrying his daughter...
What is the matter with these most talented people, corrupted by success or sickos all along?
(But when it comes to O.J., there is just no possible redemption of the athlete's performances, everything OJ is forever psychopathic, I'm aghast that story is being resurrected for primetime).
18
wow! do you writers here in this comment section realize that ALL of you are confusing reality. bill cosby has not been convicted of any of these allegations. and yet you people write as if he is already guilty. this cosby rapist story is just another tv and media show that you somehow are buying as truth. all the women accusing bill cosby of rape (think about it; rape!) have admitted that they were meeting him in his home, hotel rooms or at the playboy mansion for their own purposes. all of these women, including the press (by selling the story), want money or fame from these accusations. that is a conflict of interest and makes these women's stories ultimately untrustworthy. i have no doubt that bill cosby partook of drugs, sex and rock n roll. that's his business, and the responsibility of the women who showed up to play the sex games with him. i don't want or need to know the details of their sexual choices. but there is a big problem here in this comment section and in our society as a whole, that people genuinely seem to be confused about what is real.
4
I have always been prepared to believe that Mr. Cosby was an innocent victim of fame but when he admitted using drugs and alcohol to loosen up women, it revealed a predatory nature. Drugs and alcohol don't get women in the mood for consensual sex; they make us vulnerable to assault and in many cases are used to functionally disable or incapacitate us. Consent effectively is gone. That so many women have come forward to allegations, and that many of them have no need to sully Mr. Cosby's reputation suggests that he is guilty. I would love to believe in his innocence but as a former therapist who treated sex offenders, I find it more likely that most of the allegations are truthful.
9
As a matter of principle, I think that it is necessary to separate artists from their work. If we did not, there would be very few artistic works that we could enjoy. Roman Polanski, for example, is a horrible, horrible human being - an unrepentant child rapist who has fled from all responsibility and contrition for his vile acts. Yet, despite his glaring failures as a human being, he remains a great director. Mel Gibson is a talented actor. Pablo Picasso is a great painter. D. W. Griffith was a great filmmaker, despite making a purely racist work, one he later tried to offset with other work. The list goes on and on.
As characters, Cliff Huxtable and his family were warm, enjoyable and recognizably human. They were critically important to many people in the African American community and beyond. I don't think that the horrible actions of Bill Cosby necessarily detract from the nature and importance of the character he created. But it will take time before many people are prepared to make the distinction.
As characters, Cliff Huxtable and his family were warm, enjoyable and recognizably human. They were critically important to many people in the African American community and beyond. I don't think that the horrible actions of Bill Cosby necessarily detract from the nature and importance of the character he created. But it will take time before many people are prepared to make the distinction.
38
I agree it's possible -- preferable? -- to consider an artist and his art separately.
The thing that complicates it here, is that Bill Cosby created the consummate "good dad" in Dr. Huxtable. He created funny, family-friendly television. And as he did, Cosby chastised others for swearing and lewd content. He came down on other black men when he felt some shirked parental responsibilities.
So for me, the knowing man who created Mr. Nice Dad went home to drug and rape women makes The Cosby Show impossible to watch. However warm, well-acted, and groundbreaking it was 30 years ago.
The thing that complicates it here, is that Bill Cosby created the consummate "good dad" in Dr. Huxtable. He created funny, family-friendly television. And as he did, Cosby chastised others for swearing and lewd content. He came down on other black men when he felt some shirked parental responsibilities.
So for me, the knowing man who created Mr. Nice Dad went home to drug and rape women makes The Cosby Show impossible to watch. However warm, well-acted, and groundbreaking it was 30 years ago.
3
When you refer to Cosby's "horrible actions," what are you talking about? Anything supported by fact? The fact is there's no evidence to support even one of the 50+ accusations. That doesn't rate with you, you trust the media. Enjoy the show, that's all they'll ever have for you.
1
Art does not exist in a vacuum. All of these (male) artists created art that was a reflection of themselves. To say that we should simply forgive these people for their awful behavior is no less than encouraging it. There is no way to actually separate the artist from the art. You are letting people know that this sort of behavior will have no repercussions or consequences. And "artists" will go on abusing, raping and sometimes killing people. But it's all okay - because they made "high" art? This is just another example of (usually white) men getting a free pass to be terrible human beings with no repercussions. Roman Polanski was a pedophile and a rapist, Jack Nicholson beat a woman so badly that she required surgery on her brain, Sean Penn kidnapped and sadistically abused a woman, the list goes on and on. But it's all okay...? Why? Art somehow shrouds your judgement that much that you still want to support these awful excuses of human beings? Why can't we shun artists that also happen to be awful people in order to make way for artists that can make art but also not commit atrocious crimes? I for one, will never support artists, no matter the "quality" or art, if they are abusers, rapists, or murderers.
I like you, grew up with Dr. Heathcliffe Huxtable and am processing a kind of mourning period also. I also grieve though for Mr. Bill Cosby himself in whose imagination these characters were created and in so doing positively affected the lives of so many people. I cannot reconcile in my mind the two men but believe though his day of reckoning may have rightfully and finally come, that I will still be grateful for the genius that created the Huxtables.
4
"Most popular entertainer of a generation's reputation is ruined..." it's happened before.
Do a search for one Roscoe Conkling "Fatty" Arbuckle.
Do a search for one Roscoe Conkling "Fatty" Arbuckle.
2
I actually find the whole situation tragic, for the victims of course, but also the shattering of an image of a man I really looked up to, as a young Jewish boy who had a dire shortage of father figures. Cosby was not only funny -- as a youngster I listened to his comedy albums over and over again -- but he was something else for me, as a grade-schooler in the 70s: sensible. Moderate. In favor of education, and self-improvement. It wasn't just about the drugs and sex as it was for other brilliant but self-destructive comics (like Richard Pryor), who I could not relate to as much. By the time the Cosby Show was aired I had moved on, but I grew up respecting and admiring Cosby, listening to his routines and watching "Fat Albert" and reruns of "I Spy"...and now find his violence towards others and his own self-destruction both horrifying and tragic. I take no pleasure in watching someone "get what's coming to him" because I know he was an important figure to a lot of others, too. I'm also sad that it took so long for these victims' stories to be believed, another tragic element of this sordid, disgraceful story.
10
I can relate to this article because I grew up watching Fess Parker and Buddy Epsen fight “Injuns” and “bars” (bears) in the 1950s. There was no doubt in my 5 (or 6) year old mind that Mr Parker WAS (as the Disney marketeers billed him) Davy Crockett, “King of the Wild Frontier”. But when I later saw him playing other characters in other productions I reluctantly accepted the fact that he was a paid actor playing a part.
As a child I would find it difficult to separate the fictional Dr Huxtable with the actor, Mr Cosby. But as an adult I have no problem as one has no relation to the other except by coincidence. Mr Parker got sick of show business and founded an award-winning winery that is successful to this day. I was happy to hear that my childhood idol had done well with his life. Mr Cosby’s legacy will be far different.
As a child I would find it difficult to separate the fictional Dr Huxtable with the actor, Mr Cosby. But as an adult I have no problem as one has no relation to the other except by coincidence. Mr Parker got sick of show business and founded an award-winning winery that is successful to this day. I was happy to hear that my childhood idol had done well with his life. Mr Cosby’s legacy will be far different.
6
I am remember how I felt when allegations of pedophilia were made against Woody Allen. Afterwards, I could never bear to watch his movies with the same enjoyment. Interestingly, Woody Allen himself raised the question in "Bullets over Broadway" which he made right after the allegations surfaced: Does the art becomes tainted because the artist is tainted?
4
Yes it does, if you are paying admission, subscription fees which translate to royalties, etc to watch rapists and pedophiles "art" you are thereby supporting rapists and pedophiles. And you're sending a message that it's just fine for people to do such criminal things as long as they make "fun stuff to watch".
2
Nice article, but I'm hearing a more poignant point not being spelled out, I guess for the usual fear of political correctness. I'm hearing this African American woman's shame and fear of America realizing that a well respected Black person (or character) is really a very bad person and how that might reflect upon Black people as whole in American society.
Yes, this is a shame and fear almost every ethnicity feels when one of their own is revealed to be really bad. Hopefully most of us in America will be smart enough to separate the individual from the whole group and not make any negative generalized judgements on the whole group.
Yes, this is a shame and fear almost every ethnicity feels when one of their own is revealed to be really bad. Hopefully most of us in America will be smart enough to separate the individual from the whole group and not make any negative generalized judgements on the whole group.
30
I have 2 thoughts on this matter. (BTW, please note that I was never a real fan of the Cosby Show though until recently I loved Bill Cosby the actor/comedian).
See this 1989 NYT article "TV's Black World Turns - But Stays Unreal"
By HENRY LOUIS GATES JR. http://www.nytimes.com/1989/11/12/arts/tv-s-black-world-turns-but-stays-... Very prescient, Gates argued that the Cosby Show was already providing a nice syrupy illusion of social progress and yet it still mattered because the African-American experience was finally front-and-center rather than in the peripheries.
Second, I just finished watching on Netflix the Cosby spinoff, "A Different World." What an extraordinary show! Maybe the first season or so seemed to have Cosbyesque fantasies of social progress, but the show unflinchingly addressed a lot of social issues (especially youth issues).
See this 1989 NYT article "TV's Black World Turns - But Stays Unreal"
By HENRY LOUIS GATES JR. http://www.nytimes.com/1989/11/12/arts/tv-s-black-world-turns-but-stays-... Very prescient, Gates argued that the Cosby Show was already providing a nice syrupy illusion of social progress and yet it still mattered because the African-American experience was finally front-and-center rather than in the peripheries.
Second, I just finished watching on Netflix the Cosby spinoff, "A Different World." What an extraordinary show! Maybe the first season or so seemed to have Cosbyesque fantasies of social progress, but the show unflinchingly addressed a lot of social issues (especially youth issues).
4
Just want you to know that I loved, "A Different World," too! Watched it when it came out. Loved that it explored campus life at a historically black college like the one I attended.
5
Did I miss the part where Bill Cosby was convicted of a crime?
Or shall we just get rid of due process altogether, as we do at universities, and go with trial by media?
Or shall we just get rid of due process altogether, as we do at universities, and go with trial by media?
5
He's been indicted and admitted wrongdoing on tape. At the very least he is not the man America thought he was. At the worst he's the monster we all suspect. Courts shouldn't always be relied on to determine guilt or innocence. They get it wrong all the time.
8
No one is dismissing due process. You are off topic.
6
"Courts shouldn't always be relied on to determine guilt or innocence."
You can't be serious, and "wrong all the time" is an exaggeration, even though no system is perfect.
You can't be serious, and "wrong all the time" is an exaggeration, even though no system is perfect.
3
My God, it's a damn TV show. It's not the real world. No one, and I mean no one can solve their families problems every week in 22 minutes. And if you though Cliff Huxtable was like ANYONE you knew, then you were incredible naive. The man NEVER had a bad day and EVERYONE does, It was make believe and Cosby was a actor playing a part. I love Big Bang Theory, but never for an instance do I believe Jim Parsons understands the physics he flawlessly sprouts each week. I don't believe that Bryan Cranston can get me some meth, that Mark Harmon always catches the bad guy or Melissa Benoist is recognizable when she puts on her glasses. And I never believed in Cliff Huxtable; he was just a modern day version of Father Knows Best (and that all knowing father was played by a depressed, alcoholic). Your complaint here says more about you than anything or anyone else. And if Cliff was here, I expect he'd have one all knowing piece of advice - GROW UP!
4
What we see on TV can be a reflection of what is going on socially in America. Some shows are more important than others and The Cosby Show was one. Many of us had never seen a representation of a black family write that way before. Not on prime time at least. It's naive to think The Cosby Show didn't have the impact that it did. It meant a lot to many. Just because it meant nothing to you really is of no consequence.
3
Dear Bill Cosby,
I believe in you still. I know it wasn't the Dr. Huxtable Show, it was The Cosby Show. I know that you are the one who believed in setting an example for others to follow. I know you worked hard through your career to use comedy to show us that hard work and moral principles would lead us to success.
You didn't have to. You could have been like Richard Pryor, filling your routine with expletive-filled rants about racism and evil in our society. But you always took the high road.
And now, you have stumbled. You failed to be the person you wanted us all to be. But I still believe in you, and offer you my hand to help you get yourself up, apologize sincerely for what you've done, accept whatever punishment there may be, and figure out how to create a positive example from your failings.
We all want to be as perfect as Dr. Huxtable, but nobody is. Everybody makes mistakes. You are still my hero, and I know you will dust yourself off and set an example of how to overcome your own failings.
I believe in you still. I know it wasn't the Dr. Huxtable Show, it was The Cosby Show. I know that you are the one who believed in setting an example for others to follow. I know you worked hard through your career to use comedy to show us that hard work and moral principles would lead us to success.
You didn't have to. You could have been like Richard Pryor, filling your routine with expletive-filled rants about racism and evil in our society. But you always took the high road.
And now, you have stumbled. You failed to be the person you wanted us all to be. But I still believe in you, and offer you my hand to help you get yourself up, apologize sincerely for what you've done, accept whatever punishment there may be, and figure out how to create a positive example from your failings.
We all want to be as perfect as Dr. Huxtable, but nobody is. Everybody makes mistakes. You are still my hero, and I know you will dust yourself off and set an example of how to overcome your own failings.
2
Stumbled.....?
2
Stumbled? Are you kidding me? Evidence that he was a serial predator is overwhelming.
3
Marshall - I like your first two paragraphs....the rest assumes something for which there is little evidence.
In the 1970s, my mother was guiding me to repeat the life she had lived: early marriage and children. The Mary Tyler Moore Show (1970-1977) depicted a woman's life I never could have imagined on my own: working at a television station, living in a cute apartment, dating a nice boyfriend. By the time I was 20 I was a newsroom intern with my own apartment and lots of dates. Now a college professor, I eventually married and had a son. I give credit to MTM for giving me a vision of larger possibilities.
78
That Girl, as well.
7
The consciousness raising (i.e. #Black Lives Also Excel) model that Bill Cosby artfully contributed to not only people of color but also to the nation, can't be undone. But at the same time it's understandable that those, like Rachel Swarns, who were profoundly influenced by what appeared to be a kind, thoughtful, caring Cliff Huxtable feel betrayed. Betrayed by what turns out to be a pathological part of Cosby that (in his consistent shocked reactions to the accusations of rape and sexual abuse by multiple women) makes it seem as if he himself doesn't want to admit what he's done. As if he himself feels betrayed by that sick out of control abusive part of himself that's so unlike the upstanding, outstanding, moral character he played.
4
Being blessed to be born into a black family of both free persons of color and the heirs of the enslaved who always managed to achieve excellence, I took great pride in saying that my clan had been outdoing the Huxtables for generations. While the Huxtable family was fictional since it reflected my reality I enjoyed that very much. Along with a profession in my family a college education was expected with multiple degrees up to doctorates being the norm. But there were a few slackers who fulfilled the white supremacist stereotypes of sloth, immorality and criminality. And some for whom being born black was so much of a challenge that they chose to pass. The paradox of Cliff and Bill is a tragedy.
5
Having grown up with Cosby the comedian before the Cosby show, I grieve also.
One thing not mentioned in this article is how often fame destroys people. Was Cosby a bad man when he started his career? We'll never know. He ended as one. How many others follow this trajectory? Over and and over I see lives implode, and I remind myself that fame is a curse, not a blessing. I grieve also for the young Bill Cosby before his fame, who may have been a good man. Or at least it helps me to think so.
One thing not mentioned in this article is how often fame destroys people. Was Cosby a bad man when he started his career? We'll never know. He ended as one. How many others follow this trajectory? Over and and over I see lives implode, and I remind myself that fame is a curse, not a blessing. I grieve also for the young Bill Cosby before his fame, who may have been a good man. Or at least it helps me to think so.
37
I disagree. This article should not contain a statement about how fame destroys people, unless there's evidence that it destroyed Bill Cosby. As with so many media droids, you overlook the fact that you don't know this man. There is no evidence against him. That's important, despite what our warped media has you believing.
2
Fame and power have their temptations, I'm sure. But they probably just allow what was already there to come forth without hindrance.
1
Was Jack Nicholson J.J. GIttes? DeNiro Jake La Motta? Of course not. The most convincing actors are those who can shed their skins. Confusing them with the characters they're playing is part of the empathetic experience....the magic of the medium. Cosby isn't Cliff Huxtable, but that shouldn't detract from the enjoyment of watching him pretend to be. Few fall as far and as fast, but when you're playing someone who for many rises to the level of a role model, it's that much more difficult to accept them as they really are. Cosby just happens to be one whose feet are made of softer clay than most.
1
As much as it doesn't make sense to associate a character with a real person, what actors and actresses do offscreen does make a difference in our feelings toward them. There are people who refuse to watch Jane Fonda in anything because of her Hanoi Jane days. Russell Crowe hasn't earned much respect with his offscreen antics. PeeWee Herman is still Box Office Poison. Is it fair, realistic or sensible? No, but human emotions being what they are, its relevant.
3
We have a problem in our country. We fall so in love with the characters that we very quickly blur the line between actor and character. We forget these are highly skilled professionals at the top of their games, not the good guys - or yes, even the bad guys that we love to hate - we watch.
We must learn to do a better job of separating our fantasies from reality. Perhaps in that way we will see the actors for what they are: fallible, flawed human beings trying to make it in their lives, just like us. Huxtable and Cosby are not the same. Not even close.
We must learn to do a better job of separating our fantasies from reality. Perhaps in that way we will see the actors for what they are: fallible, flawed human beings trying to make it in their lives, just like us. Huxtable and Cosby are not the same. Not even close.
19
The problem isn't just ours. Don't forget Jimmy Saville in England. And the problem here isn't just Cosby. Mel Gibson's anti-Semitism, Tom Cruise and Scientology, the list goes on.
4
Michael from Dutton Michigan writes: "We have a problem in our country. " While I appreciate the careful precision (really!), I don't think this problem is confined to our country. Other countries are just as bad. As humans, we tend to conflate fantasies with reality (as Michael points out). It's not just an American thing....
1
That's what we get for relying on television and it's corporate sponsors to define our lives. In the old days it would have been someone in the neighborhood. Someone real. Now it's Bill Cosby.
My older generation identified with Bill Cosby because of his phonograph records, which broke down the barriers between Black and White comedy. So yes, we all have reason to grieve. The man we knew is no more.
My older generation identified with Bill Cosby because of his phonograph records, which broke down the barriers between Black and White comedy. So yes, we all have reason to grieve. The man we knew is no more.
25
Actually, Mr. Cosby's records from the early 1960s were quite autobiographical.
4
I didn't watch TV much growing up or even now but have always been a fan of the movies. It's folly to look up to stars or their characters (or writers or politicians, etc.) as role models -- I understood this growing up -- so my role models were the people close to me: my mom, my brother, my teachers.
Occasionally you do stumble across people who are just as decent in real life as the people they often portray and it's a delight but that's rare: two examples -- Gregory Peck (who was said by many people to be like Atticus Finch in real life) and Jimmy Stewart (who accomplished so many more things -- such as being a top fighter pilot in WW2 - than just being a good actor). Cary Grant captured this once when he said that even he wanted to be Cary Grant (e.g. the suave, calm character he often played in movies).
Occasionally you do stumble across people who are just as decent in real life as the people they often portray and it's a delight but that's rare: two examples -- Gregory Peck (who was said by many people to be like Atticus Finch in real life) and Jimmy Stewart (who accomplished so many more things -- such as being a top fighter pilot in WW2 - than just being a good actor). Cary Grant captured this once when he said that even he wanted to be Cary Grant (e.g. the suave, calm character he often played in movies).
40
I am too old to have watched the Huxtables, but I have felt my own grief founded in the strange juxtaposition of today's Bill Cosby with the lost pleasure of his gentle comedy records of the 1960's and 70's and of his live stage performance that my father once took me to see.
16
You are too old to have watched The Huxtables 30 years ago?
1
I like the question of how we should think of art that has resonated with us, after we have discovered that the artist is not just flawed, but criminal, even monstrous. This is not the first time it has happened to me, and it won't be the last. I think it hurts so much because when any art--a movie, a book, a t.v. show--touches us, it really connects us to the best of our humanity. We think that whoever created it must somehow embody that humanity, must somehow be as wise and kind as that art makes us want to be. I haven't yet learned how not to be disappointed when that isn't the case.
17
'...we have discovered that the artist is not just flawed, but criminal...'
That so many Americans cheerfully discard the right to due process is scarier than anything Cosby is alleged to have done.
That so many Americans cheerfully discard the right to due process is scarier than anything Cosby is alleged to have done.
3
Beth writes: "I like the question of how we should think of art that has resonated with us, after we have discovered that the artist is not just flawed, but criminal, even monstrous. "
Thanks for the warm, timely reminder. I remember spending a boozy night in the White Horse pub with a friend who was heartbroken over the fact that recent records proved that Heidegger was indisputably a Nazi.
A young engineer, I had only the vaguest understanding of what this meant. To me, this was "some old German dude was a Nazi like a lot of other old German dudes".
It took me a decade or more to understand what it meant for an entire philosophical framework to be irreparably damaged by the political predilections of the philosopher.
I really appreciate this comment!
Thanks for the warm, timely reminder. I remember spending a boozy night in the White Horse pub with a friend who was heartbroken over the fact that recent records proved that Heidegger was indisputably a Nazi.
A young engineer, I had only the vaguest understanding of what this meant. To me, this was "some old German dude was a Nazi like a lot of other old German dudes".
It took me a decade or more to understand what it meant for an entire philosophical framework to be irreparably damaged by the political predilections of the philosopher.
I really appreciate this comment!
3
<
Very well expressed.
Very well expressed.
8
Peesonally, I disliked the show tremendously. I thought it pretentious, arrogant, irrelevant and more importantly, I disliked it's moralistic tone.
Experience has taught me to always be aware of those who would want to teach me moral lessons, preachers so to speak, who feel compelled to show me the way, as if it were not only their duty but also their God given right, to tell the rest of us whats right and consequently, what's wrong. And of course, they're always right.
Just goes to show. Besides, its just a tv show, and not a very good one at that.
Experience has taught me to always be aware of those who would want to teach me moral lessons, preachers so to speak, who feel compelled to show me the way, as if it were not only their duty but also their God given right, to tell the rest of us whats right and consequently, what's wrong. And of course, they're always right.
Just goes to show. Besides, its just a tv show, and not a very good one at that.
19
Did you ever watch any of the shows?
Yes, I did.
How else would I be able to formulate such an opinion.
And in the end, its just that, an opinion.
How else would I be able to formulate such an opinion.
And in the end, its just that, an opinion.
3
Sorry, I never had the luxury of living in fantasy land. However, Peter O'Toole striking a match and the cut to the sun coming up on the desert will always be in my mind.
And everyone or worth knows what I'm talking about.
And everyone or worth knows what I'm talking about.
8
Memory is very personal, but this column maybe is ultimately about a problem of memory that is all too common -- when some intervening event or revelation spoils a memory. What are we to do then?
I do not think there is one answer. But I think it at least merits consideration, this is why one has to let memories be, and to not let too much harsh light in on them. Or else, one might someday discover, one has no good memories left.
You shine enough light on any past, and it all withers. The older you et, and the more you learn, you discover this. But I do not think we should let our pasts be stolen from us, or our present sanitized so we are never reminded. The past can be sweet even if it has been a thousand times betrayed, and we can still remember sweetly, without that implying we are being weak in the present. A lesson -- perhaps necessary one -- of age.
I do not think there is one answer. But I think it at least merits consideration, this is why one has to let memories be, and to not let too much harsh light in on them. Or else, one might someday discover, one has no good memories left.
You shine enough light on any past, and it all withers. The older you et, and the more you learn, you discover this. But I do not think we should let our pasts be stolen from us, or our present sanitized so we are never reminded. The past can be sweet even if it has been a thousand times betrayed, and we can still remember sweetly, without that implying we are being weak in the present. A lesson -- perhaps necessary one -- of age.
7
@pjc
Here's a harsher, biblical perspective on the phenomenon you are frame -
'When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.'
1 Corinthians 13:11
Here's a harsher, biblical perspective on the phenomenon you are frame -
'When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.'
1 Corinthians 13:11
4
I understand the pain you express here. As I read your piece, I felt that you were expressing the pain many Americans are feeling. While a wealthy society, we are also a stressed and divided--fractured--society.
Causing that stress and division helps some Americans gain wealth and power, but it's not good for our society.
Causing that stress and division helps some Americans gain wealth and power, but it's not good for our society.
8
Very little in our media is good for us at all.
3
One can relate to a fictional character, admire them, even strive to be like them. But it's rather naive to think that the creator of that character IS him or her. I don't recall ever being disappointed to learn that the creator of a character I liked was a deeply flawed person in real life, maybe because I always kept that separation between the two. We are all flawed to some extent, some more than others. Actors and writers are often troubled people and maybe that contributes to their creativity.
13
Amen!
4
Kevin Arnold of the 'Wonder Years' was about two years younger than me. They dealt with many of the same issues in junior high and high school. I felt a kinship, the proverbial nice guy, trying to do sports, but just not very good at it. I got decent grades, except in Math and Shop. I had some very good teachers, some less than god and some that were just really aloof, just like Kevin Arnold. My brother was in Vietnam for just over a year. Fortunately he came back alive, unlike Winnie Cooper's brother.
Though the show only lasted 4.5 years (it debuted after a Super Bowl,) it still resonated with me, especially when I hear Joe Cocker's rendition of '...with a little help from my Friends,' of Judy Collins' 'Forever Young.'
Though the show only lasted 4.5 years (it debuted after a Super Bowl,) it still resonated with me, especially when I hear Joe Cocker's rendition of '...with a little help from my Friends,' of Judy Collins' 'Forever Young.'
10
Excellent reflection on real people and their acting roles. TV Bill was groundbreaking and will remain so in the history of television. Real Bill is fractured and selfish and that will endure also. Perhaps, deep inside Real Bill wanted to be TV Bill.
81
Fractured and selfish, to day the least...
Im quite sure the many, many women he allegedly molested would describe him otherwise.
Of course, I write allegedly, adhering to the concept of innocence, by law, until proven guilty.
Im quite sure the many, many women he allegedly molested would describe him otherwise.
Of course, I write allegedly, adhering to the concept of innocence, by law, until proven guilty.
1
And you write "fractured and selfish", according to what? The media also uses the word "alleged" because, despite what they'd have you believe, evidence is required to support an accusation, or even a hundred accusations, particularly when there are dollar signs stamped all over the campaign. Why "adhere" to a concept that has no value to you?
2
You assume.
What would indicate that the concept has no value to me.
What would indicate that the concept has no value to me.
Yes. Decades ago in Jon Hall's series Ramar of the Jungle, there was a smart, strong woman named Trudy, who held her own and more so with the men. I knew I wanted to be like her.
7
I used to love reading H. L. Mencken; read several of his essays many times over. Then, years after his death, his diaries were published. He didn't like Jews, and he said so. Often and with his usual nastiness.
Maybe one day I'll read Mencken again. Not right now. It's impossible for me to separate the writing from the writer, just as it's impossible to separate Cosby's creation, Dr. Huxtable, from Mr. Cosby himself. It's even more painful in your situation because Mencken was known to be meanly critical, whereas Dr. Huxtable was a sweetheart of a man. Unfortunately, not a real one. How much happier the world would be if Cosby had instead been a sweetheart of a guy who was playing someone much less nice than himself.
But that's what actors and authors do. They make up stuff. And in both of these instances, the disparity between the reality and the made-up stuff turns out to have an edge of it's own.
Maybe one day I'll read Mencken again. Not right now. It's impossible for me to separate the writing from the writer, just as it's impossible to separate Cosby's creation, Dr. Huxtable, from Mr. Cosby himself. It's even more painful in your situation because Mencken was known to be meanly critical, whereas Dr. Huxtable was a sweetheart of a man. Unfortunately, not a real one. How much happier the world would be if Cosby had instead been a sweetheart of a guy who was playing someone much less nice than himself.
But that's what actors and authors do. They make up stuff. And in both of these instances, the disparity between the reality and the made-up stuff turns out to have an edge of it's own.
113
FWI - From Wikipedia entry on Mencken:
Author Gore Vidal later defended Mencken:
Far from being an anti-Semite, Mencken was one of the first journalists to denounce the persecution of the Jews in Germany at a time when The New York Times, say, was notoriously reticent. On November 27, 1938, Mencken writes (Baltimore Sun), "It is to be hoped that the poor Jews now being robbed and mauled in Germany will not take too seriously the plans of various politicians to rescue them." He then reviews the various schemes to "rescue" the Jews from the Nazis, who had not yet announced their own final solution.[47]
As Germany gradually conquered Europe, Mencken attacked President Franklin D. Roosevelt for refusing to admit Jewish refugees into the United States and called for their wholesale admission:
There is only one way to help the fugitives, and that is to find places for them in a country in which they can really live. Why shouldn't the United States take in a couple hundred thousand of them, or even all of them?[48]
Author Gore Vidal later defended Mencken:
Far from being an anti-Semite, Mencken was one of the first journalists to denounce the persecution of the Jews in Germany at a time when The New York Times, say, was notoriously reticent. On November 27, 1938, Mencken writes (Baltimore Sun), "It is to be hoped that the poor Jews now being robbed and mauled in Germany will not take too seriously the plans of various politicians to rescue them." He then reviews the various schemes to "rescue" the Jews from the Nazis, who had not yet announced their own final solution.[47]
As Germany gradually conquered Europe, Mencken attacked President Franklin D. Roosevelt for refusing to admit Jewish refugees into the United States and called for their wholesale admission:
There is only one way to help the fugitives, and that is to find places for them in a country in which they can really live. Why shouldn't the United States take in a couple hundred thousand of them, or even all of them?[48]
6
Common sense makes it entirely possible to separate a performer from the character he plays. Why not give common sense a try and accept that you're in the dark about things you don't know?
2
I feel it too. H.L. was such a good writer and he let the air out of so many buffoons. We do live with disappointment. Might I add Frederick Law Olmsted, A brilliant planner and seer but also an anti-semite.
3
http://www.thenational.scot/comment/shona-craven-cliff-huxtable-was-fict...