Instead of a president who drops to his knees and prays to a character in a fairy tale, I'd much rather that he or she takes a minute to re-read the preamble to the Constitution. "We the People" ordained it...not Jesus, Yahweh, Muhammed, or any other fictional God or prophet invented by men in caves 2000 years ago. Tell me In 25 words or less why Ted Cruz has any greater right to push his beliefs than any garden variety Mullah or Israeli settler.
83
"The purpose of our life is to cooperate with God's plan."
Which according to Republicans is what, exactly? To rape God's creation, the Earth, so that men might become richer? To cast aside the poor, as in Flint, MI, so that the wealthy might become wealthier? To covet thy neighbor's wife, as Senator Ensign of Nevada did? To commit adultery, as Gingrich, Sanford and others in the Republican party have--while preaching "family values?" To steal, as Republicans like Stephen Fincher of TN have, in receiving huge taxpayer subsidies for "farming," while voting against foodstamps for the needy because it's "stealing" from taxpayers? And finally, to murder--by allowing the gun lobby to buy them off in order to indiscriminately place guns in the hands of murderers, terrorists, and even children?
A god who makes "plans" like these does not deserve to be worshipped. And the men who claim that this god speaks to them do not deserve to be elected.
Which according to Republicans is what, exactly? To rape God's creation, the Earth, so that men might become richer? To cast aside the poor, as in Flint, MI, so that the wealthy might become wealthier? To covet thy neighbor's wife, as Senator Ensign of Nevada did? To commit adultery, as Gingrich, Sanford and others in the Republican party have--while preaching "family values?" To steal, as Republicans like Stephen Fincher of TN have, in receiving huge taxpayer subsidies for "farming," while voting against foodstamps for the needy because it's "stealing" from taxpayers? And finally, to murder--by allowing the gun lobby to buy them off in order to indiscriminately place guns in the hands of murderers, terrorists, and even children?
A god who makes "plans" like these does not deserve to be worshipped. And the men who claim that this god speaks to them do not deserve to be elected.
118
Looking ahead with Stanton to November 2016 and the future:
P/VP
Democrats -- Hillary Clinton/Martin O’Malley
Republicans -- Donald Trump/Sarah Palin
Independents -- Michael Bloomberg/ Bernie Sanders
None of the tickets achieves an electoral majority.
The election goes to the House, where Donald and Sarah emerge victorious.
Street celebrations break out in working-class neighborhoods across the country.
Not to be outdone, sporadic rioting and looting occurs in some inner city neighborhoods.
Donald and Sarah invite everyone in the country to come to Washington
for their Inaugural Celebration Party. Hundreds of thousands of people show up.
The NY Times prints a blistering editorial hinting broadly that Mr. Netanyahu and
AIPAC swayed the election.
In his first act in office, President Trump nullifies the Iran nuclear deal.
P/VP
Democrats -- Hillary Clinton/Martin O’Malley
Republicans -- Donald Trump/Sarah Palin
Independents -- Michael Bloomberg/ Bernie Sanders
None of the tickets achieves an electoral majority.
The election goes to the House, where Donald and Sarah emerge victorious.
Street celebrations break out in working-class neighborhoods across the country.
Not to be outdone, sporadic rioting and looting occurs in some inner city neighborhoods.
Donald and Sarah invite everyone in the country to come to Washington
for their Inaugural Celebration Party. Hundreds of thousands of people show up.
The NY Times prints a blistering editorial hinting broadly that Mr. Netanyahu and
AIPAC swayed the election.
In his first act in office, President Trump nullifies the Iran nuclear deal.
6
We have two problems here. One, Iowa and this ridiculous focus on the caucuses there. And two, of course, the outsized role that parading around your faith -- your Christianity, I should say -- plays in politics today, especially Republican politics.
All these Republican wannabes can proselytize all they want to their base. The truth is, Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio are preening, overly ambitious hypocrites. And as always, the more someone preaches, the more they have to hide themselves. We can hope that a public revelation of their transgressions will follow, because I'd love to see the kind of wackadoo moral scandal they've created.
All these Republican wannabes can proselytize all they want to their base. The truth is, Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio are preening, overly ambitious hypocrites. And as always, the more someone preaches, the more they have to hide themselves. We can hope that a public revelation of their transgressions will follow, because I'd love to see the kind of wackadoo moral scandal they've created.
32
Should a Republican become president in 2016, it's not likely we'll be seeing footage of him on his knees praying for God to show how to do His will. He'll have enough sense to know it would not go over well with most Americans.
But he'll still be indebted to the evangelicals who helped put him in office. So he'll have to deliver. As a gay American, I am really worried about the consequences.
In short order he'd revoke all of Obama's executive orders that were beneficial to LGBT Americans.
While the Obama administration went out of its way to comply with the marriage equality decision and the Supreme Court's ruling that struck down part of the vile Defense of Marriage Act, we could expect a Republican president to adopt an obstructionist stance in these areas.
The Department of Education and the Justice Department would stop pursuing trans equality.
Moreover, he'd likely staff his administration with Evangelical operatives who would constantly be working to undermine the separation of church and state. We saw this with George W. Bush and his Office of Faith Based Initiatives.
Who knows how far Kim Davis and zealots like her could go if one of the current Republican candidates attained the Oval Office.
God help us all.
But he'll still be indebted to the evangelicals who helped put him in office. So he'll have to deliver. As a gay American, I am really worried about the consequences.
In short order he'd revoke all of Obama's executive orders that were beneficial to LGBT Americans.
While the Obama administration went out of its way to comply with the marriage equality decision and the Supreme Court's ruling that struck down part of the vile Defense of Marriage Act, we could expect a Republican president to adopt an obstructionist stance in these areas.
The Department of Education and the Justice Department would stop pursuing trans equality.
Moreover, he'd likely staff his administration with Evangelical operatives who would constantly be working to undermine the separation of church and state. We saw this with George W. Bush and his Office of Faith Based Initiatives.
Who knows how far Kim Davis and zealots like her could go if one of the current Republican candidates attained the Oval Office.
God help us all.
44
The Republican preoccupation with public professions of faith is offensive to many Democrats, particularly educated Democrats, either because such claims of piety seem contrived to manipulate evangelical Christians or, even if genuine, seem inconsistent with the separation of church and state.
The acceptance by Iowa Republicans, including evangelical Christians, of Donald Trump is all very puzzling to those of us not into the religiosity world.
Is Trump similar to Ronald Reagan, a man without any religious habits, but who was readily accepted by regular church-goers? Or, is Iowa changing to a more secular society?
These mysteries and more will be revealed tomorrow. Right now, it is comforting to believe that Iowans – for all of their selfishness about disrupting America’s food supplies to keep their stupid corn-based ethanol subsidies – are becoming better citizens of a diverse 21st century America.
By Tuesday, we'll know if that improvement applies to Iowa Republicans.
The acceptance by Iowa Republicans, including evangelical Christians, of Donald Trump is all very puzzling to those of us not into the religiosity world.
Is Trump similar to Ronald Reagan, a man without any religious habits, but who was readily accepted by regular church-goers? Or, is Iowa changing to a more secular society?
These mysteries and more will be revealed tomorrow. Right now, it is comforting to believe that Iowans – for all of their selfishness about disrupting America’s food supplies to keep their stupid corn-based ethanol subsidies – are becoming better citizens of a diverse 21st century America.
By Tuesday, we'll know if that improvement applies to Iowa Republicans.
22
Why do NYT readers associate religion with Ted Cruz and not with Mother Teresa, Gandhi, the Dalai Lama or for that matter with Jesus?
I believe Jesus was religious. (smile).
Bach routinely dedicated his compositions to God. Had Bach not been religious, we might not have his beautiful music.
I can perfectly understand why people are angry with Republicans, but it is wrong to transfer that anger to religion in general.
It really is no different from the argument, "Some Muslims are terrorists so I hate all Muslims."
I believe Jesus was religious. (smile).
Bach routinely dedicated his compositions to God. Had Bach not been religious, we might not have his beautiful music.
I can perfectly understand why people are angry with Republicans, but it is wrong to transfer that anger to religion in general.
It really is no different from the argument, "Some Muslims are terrorists so I hate all Muslims."
14
These political wannabes bear a striking resemblance to the biblical Pharisees and Sadducees; elites that their supposed savior railed so strongly against. Some people were sheep to follow them in those times and people are sheep who think that any one of the current GOP candidates deserve the office and responsibilities o the highest office in the land.
16
"Cruz, in contrast, “probably gets up every morning and asks God for forgiveness at least a couple of times, even before breakfast,” Perry told the audience."
Given the hateful bile issuing from Cruz's lips, he should.
But when God then replies to Cruz, "Stop the hateful talk," one wonders why is Cruz is deaf?
Given the hateful bile issuing from Cruz's lips, he should.
But when God then replies to Cruz, "Stop the hateful talk," one wonders why is Cruz is deaf?
27
Republicans pandering to myopic religious fanatics is a tried and true way to distract away from their lack of sound, rational policy initiatives, their craven worship of wealthy individuals and corporations, income and tax inequality, and their persistent, obsessive efforts to undermine the ACA, Social Security and Medicare.
33
Isn't this level of bigotry disgusting? Kitchens was right, religion spoils everything ..if it used in political matters. What is supposed to be one's personally felt truth, is abused for acquiring powers to tell others what to do and what to thing.
In turning religion into a political matter it is being abused, for results look at the Middle East.
In turning religion into a political matter it is being abused, for results look at the Middle East.
14
Conservatives love pontificate on religion. Jesus Christ is their best buddy. They don't make a move unless they consult him. Naturally he must have been a Conservative and fought for Conservative principles. Just like John Kennedy and Harry Truman, who Conservatives have adopted as their own.
Jesus surely would want cuts to Social Security, Medicare, food stamps. and the social safety net. More taxation on the poor and middle class so they have some "skin in the game". Of course, he would want to bestow untold riches on the truly blessed, who are only doing God's work, the elite and corporations. Hallelujah!!!
Conservaitves truly believe if Jesus were alive today, he would have graduated from Harvard Business School, Travel around in a three piece business suit and preach the Gospel of free markets and capitalism.
Wait a minute! Did the Bible actually say that?
Jesus surely would want cuts to Social Security, Medicare, food stamps. and the social safety net. More taxation on the poor and middle class so they have some "skin in the game". Of course, he would want to bestow untold riches on the truly blessed, who are only doing God's work, the elite and corporations. Hallelujah!!!
Conservaitves truly believe if Jesus were alive today, he would have graduated from Harvard Business School, Travel around in a three piece business suit and preach the Gospel of free markets and capitalism.
Wait a minute! Did the Bible actually say that?
27
And Candidate Obama got skewered for his "cling to their bibles and guns" statement. Seems like it was extremely accurate and just a paraphrase of Sinclair Lewis, whose statement was: "When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Lewis didn't add guns at that time. Perhaps because Americans didn't have as much of a fetish with them as they do now with more than 300 million guns. Who needs that chicken? We can have a gun in every pot. And, Lewis added the all important conclusion about where this pandering baloney could lead us, fascism. The fact that Trump is acceptable to many evangelicals (not the thinking variety though and those who know what Jesus actually said and meant) is particularly troubling. Hopefully, this country overall has the sense to reject the phony religiosity of Trump and the religious pandering of the other GOP candidates. Frankly, these days, Christian GOP candidate is an oxymoron, except perhaps for Kasich, who was actually enough of a true believer to accept the Medicaid expansion under the ACA (Obama cares). What would Jesus do? Would Jesus reject those Syrian refugees? Would Jesus throw 11 million undocumented immigrants out of the United States? Would Jesus 'carpet bomb' the Middle East? Why don't the alleged journalists who ask the questions at these absurd debates ask some of these straightforward questions? They are fair game since the candidates wear their false religion on their sleeves.
202
Most of these so-called religionists are really just bigots.
Just as Southern Democrats deserted the party when it embraced civil rights in the 60s to become Republicans, their core ideology is white supremacy.
Any lip service to God will do, as long as its served up with a big dose of racism.
Just as Southern Democrats deserted the party when it embraced civil rights in the 60s to become Republicans, their core ideology is white supremacy.
Any lip service to God will do, as long as its served up with a big dose of racism.
25
Evangelicals don't look at a person's religious commitment. They only care about how much venom you can hurl at the "others". The only thing that matters to evangelicals is to separate themselves from the rest of us in order to maintain their purity. They and they alone have a true understanding of what a supposedly infinite being wants us to do. Evangelicals put Cheney to shame when it comes to hubris.
20
Time to forgetaboutIowa. Iowa is a backwater state full of religious zealots, to hear you tell it. They must be since Santorum and Huckabee were the winners of previous caucuses. Time to hold a nationwide same day primary. Let's really hear the voice of the people.
30
If I remember clearly George W Bush's administration was constantly praying and asking for God's guidance and look how well that turned out. If there's a litmus test for being president then the lesson garnered from the recent past should be that a nominee be judged on his or her own resolve and the type of advisers he or her gathers around themselves. Not how often they look to the heavens.
19
I really want to vote for a candidate who believes we're in End Times and overdue for a final massive war. Oh, and give them the launch codes to the nuclear arsenal. What could go wrong?
30
An "unsettling holy war?" are you joking? How about a flaming insult to decent Americans. What is being offered by the Republican candidates is tragic.
For just a short time, they should offer some plausible and meaningful suggestions about running our government.
God help us!
For just a short time, they should offer some plausible and meaningful suggestions about running our government.
God help us!
12
Pious frauds these Republican aspirants be. Got a poser? Just call your invisible friend, kind of like contestants do on that quiz show. Except the invisible friend is just you, but now the answers come with unassailable authority.
Canada had a Prime Minister in the last century who used to "talk" with his dead mother, seeking guidance. Is that behaviour disturbing? Why, yes it is.
Canada had a Prime Minister in the last century who used to "talk" with his dead mother, seeking guidance. Is that behaviour disturbing? Why, yes it is.
9
One can certainly understand Trump's success with evangelicals. His authoritarian manner and behavior echos the stern demeanor of the Old Testament Yahweh ( who, if we're to believe many artists' rendering of that god, he did certainly have better hair than Trump).
The other thing that draws Trump to the church faithful is the blunt admission of his situational Christian ethics and piety, thereby giving those in the flock comfort and justification for their own transgressions and religious hypocrisy. How many self proclaimed spiritual leaders in our past have fallen from grace through sins of the flesh and not had to suffer reproach and condemnation of their followers?
But we know all too well that there is not a bone in the Donald's body that in any way reflects or is served by the teachings of the New Testament Jesus Christ.
The other thing that draws Trump to the church faithful is the blunt admission of his situational Christian ethics and piety, thereby giving those in the flock comfort and justification for their own transgressions and religious hypocrisy. How many self proclaimed spiritual leaders in our past have fallen from grace through sins of the flesh and not had to suffer reproach and condemnation of their followers?
But we know all too well that there is not a bone in the Donald's body that in any way reflects or is served by the teachings of the New Testament Jesus Christ.
11
America is electing a President. Not a rabbi, bishop, imam, ayatollah nor priest. America is a nation state country. Not a temple, church nor mosque. No deity is an American Republican.
30
More people have been murdered, tortured, imprisoned, abused, and discriminated against in the name of religion that rivals anything any organized state has done. Whether it is the Muslim conquest of the Middle East and Central Asia, the Crusades or ISIS, only the the dates change, the attacks on people and their right to reason continues to be infringed to this day by religious beliefs that started over two thousand years ago. One would hope that we have come farther than the ignorance and superstitions of the ancients but it appears we have not.
17
This is perhaps the first time I've seen any coverage or comment on the religious component of the race. It['s appalling that constant references to god and Christ are now business as usual, not even worthy of comment. And it's equally appalling that The Times - rather then taking a pass this time around - endorsed Kasich for the Republican nomination without so much as chiding him for referencing god and/or Christ every two sentences. It is appalling and extremely frightening.
134
You often hear conservatives and evangelicals yammering about "American exceptionalism." What REALLY makes America exceptional is that it is the first major country founded on the premise that the "King's religion" doesn't get to rule. It is ironic that the voices who are most strident about the (laughably improbable) prospect of shariah law taking hold in the U.S. would be perfectly happy to impose their brand of Christian shariah law. The only people I see trying to impose their religion on their fellow Americans are not Muslims but right wing Christians. I'm not sure that Christian Ayatollahs like Cruz, Rubio even recognize that there are millions upon millions of Americans who are not Christians, have no reason to be Christians and wouldn't be better people if they were Christians. These candidates are incapable of being the President for ALL Americans, they only want to be President for Christians. Pray for their defeat.
15
The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose.
An evil soul producing holy witness
Is like a villain with a smiling cheek,
A goodly apple rotten at the heart.
O, what a goodly outside falsehood hath!
-- William Shakespeare, The Merchant of Venice
An evil soul producing holy witness
Is like a villain with a smiling cheek,
A goodly apple rotten at the heart.
O, what a goodly outside falsehood hath!
-- William Shakespeare, The Merchant of Venice
12
here's an experiment: substitute allah for jesus, heavenly father, god and see how it sounds...
in words attributed to sinclair lewis: “When fascism comes to America, it will come wrapped in the flag and waving a cross,”
in words attributed to sinclair lewis: “When fascism comes to America, it will come wrapped in the flag and waving a cross,”
11
I think it's fair to say that Trump is not exactly the poster child for an evangelical president. But let's give him his dues. At least he tries. He even brought Sarah Palin on stage to speak in tongues, lest his own ramblings may not have done the trick.
10
Why do you say religion is responsible for American morality? Actually, quite the contrary. Christianity, Judiasm, and Islam sanction wars and killing... think The Crusades, the Old Testament, J'hadism. Not only does our Constitution not require a religious test, it does not even require an office holder to swear...such person may affirm loyalty. Moreover. non-believers and persons unaffiliated with any religion are usually quite moral...perhaps even more so since there is no way to redeem oneself through seeking forgiveness, atonement or martyrdom. Religion and so-called religious values do not belong in politics. Christ was a moral person but that does not mean his followers are. Remember too that Christ was a Jew as is Sanders who incidentally more than any other current presidential candidate except perhaps Kasich and Rand is extolling Christ's views on the evils of money and the need to protect the have-nots.
8
Patriotism has famously been called "the last refuge of the scoundrel," but religion may have it beaten by a nose.
10
To use religion in the pursuit of political gain has to be the grossest misunderstanding of religion's purpose that I can think of.
10
If you have to "tell" me about your religiosity...that means you think I won't be able to see it by your actions. So, the louder and more often that you tell me about your religiosity, the more confident I am that you are the opposite - evil.
15
Evangelicals may be happy about a President who asks God for guidance, but let's remember God told Dubya to invade Iraq.
And look at all the candidates God has encouraged to run over the years.
And look at all the candidates God has encouraged to run over the years.
9
"Religion was integral to our country's founding." Well - yes and no. Certainly the Puritans were religious. But when it came to our country's founding, religious impulses were not embraced. Although Jefferson referenced a "creator" in the Declaration in deference to Locke's theory of natural rights, that is the only mention of supernatural entities in either the Declaration or Constitution. Many founders were Deists, who although not ready to abandon a "creator" as a "first cause" stand in, did not believe in an interventionist "God". Indeed, Jefferson published a New Testament divested of miracles in keeping with his view that Jesus was an admirable figure in his own right without reference to magical thinking.
11
Iowans and the candidates need a refresher on their religion. Jesus abhorred public prayer telling his followers to pray in a closet, and beware of those sounding trumpets in streets and synagogues.
Matthew 6
Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven. Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
Matthew 6
Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven. Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
8
Cruz has deified his ego and confuses that with religious belief. So sad to see all these "tin horn" apostles promising to turn the country into a theocratic state.
9
Not sure GOP Christians have ever studied the teachings of Christ, nothing they stand for has anything to do with Jesus.
11
"Religion was integral to our country’s founding. It’s central to our understanding of the liberty that each of us deserves"
I think that is a gross exaggeration. Thomas Jefferson has a deep dislike for overly pious individuals who would force their beliefs on others. He was so concerned with freedom of religion he put it on his tombstone -
"Author of the Declaration of American Independence
of the Statute of Virginia for religious freedom"
We now face some of the most dangerous people in our history - people motivated by their sick religious beliefs - the Islamics. They have taught us all we ever need to know about letting religious fanatics near the reigns of power. That would be you, Mr. Cruz.
I think that is a gross exaggeration. Thomas Jefferson has a deep dislike for overly pious individuals who would force their beliefs on others. He was so concerned with freedom of religion he put it on his tombstone -
"Author of the Declaration of American Independence
of the Statute of Virginia for religious freedom"
We now face some of the most dangerous people in our history - people motivated by their sick religious beliefs - the Islamics. They have taught us all we ever need to know about letting religious fanatics near the reigns of power. That would be you, Mr. Cruz.
8
Personally, I don't think Jesus would have voted to withhold medical care from poor people.
273
Charlatans like Cruz will make their rapture prophesies self-fulfilling unless they are laughed off the public stage before they can deliver it.
9
Tell me why we revere the separation of church and state so much as a core concept of our democracy when religious values and allegiances become such a big deal in our political process. A country that is governed by strict , religious, ideological beliefs would not be a democracy, but a terrorist state. I think religion gets way too much attention from the Press and the voters.
13
"Religion was integral to our country's founding.".
WHAT?
What makes Bruni think that? There is only evidence to the contrary.The "founding fathers" practiced Deism similar to Unitarianism.
The recent rewrite of early American history by religious people is incorrect and appalling.
WHAT?
What makes Bruni think that? There is only evidence to the contrary.The "founding fathers" practiced Deism similar to Unitarianism.
The recent rewrite of early American history by religious people is incorrect and appalling.
9
"So why does a Republican race frequently resemble such an exam?"
Why? Because it's all about POE--Purity of Essence, Frank. They don't like foreigners. They don't like pluralism. Half of them are neo-Confederates and the other half are religious bigots. All of them dislike immigrants. That's why.
Why? Because it's all about POE--Purity of Essence, Frank. They don't like foreigners. They don't like pluralism. Half of them are neo-Confederates and the other half are religious bigots. All of them dislike immigrants. That's why.
10
Amen!! What don't our politicians get about "separation of church and state"? Never ceases to amaze me that they can quote chapter and verse from the bible but lack the humanity to love their neighbor.
14
If Jesus showed up at a Republican debate he would toss them off the stage and out into the gutter with the moneychangers and the Pharisees. He would also give their mean spirited, fearful and judgmental evangelical followers a refresh on the finer points of his doctrine, maybe a review of
1) "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
2) "He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise."
The list goes on, I guess its not surprising that a Jewish guy from Brooklyn would run a campaign hewing closer to the Christian ideal than any of these so called "Christian" candidates the Republican party has vomited in our face the past several elections...
1) "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
2) "He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise."
The list goes on, I guess its not surprising that a Jewish guy from Brooklyn would run a campaign hewing closer to the Christian ideal than any of these so called "Christian" candidates the Republican party has vomited in our face the past several elections...
16
Religion does not belong in politics. I liked that Rick Perry said Cruz probably gets up and asks God's forgiveness several times. He should. He is a hateful bigot.
12
It's hard to take Iowa's Republican primary seriously... they supported Huckabee and Santorum the last two seasons... enough said...
10
too bad america cant elect jesus as president
2
If "Religion was central to our country's founding" why is so little of it found in our original documents? Let's face it, religion is always waved around to garner the votes of the devout who often aren't really noticing the property/wealth arrangements that. I'm not saying that they are dumb, but that they have other priorities. Meanwhile, Trump is calling for the murder of all families of ISIS members, and Cruz wants to carpet bomb the middle east. How can avid advocates of war crimes be seen as appealing to religious values? Smite them all.
6
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." --Sinclair Lewis
15
It would be nice to hear a politician profess there love of the Enlightenment and see how that would go over. Start quoting Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin back at this modern day version of the American Christian Taliban and see what sort of reaction you would get.
8
Some people hate being preached to by religious people. Or atheist for that matter. Some how does the argument comes down to morality. Who would be a more moral president. A Christian, a Jew, a socialist, a Jewish Socialist, Hilary?
Of course history is plagued by hypocritical leaders and their followers. Problem is the moral thing is not always the smart or right thing. For instance a revolving door criminal justice system. Right thing to do. After all the criminal is a victim of the economic system. A cycle is created increasing crime which causing the working class people to flee to the Republican party because the righteous can not see the writting on the wall. So morality and politics shouldn't mix but that never stops the left and the right from trying.
Of course history is plagued by hypocritical leaders and their followers. Problem is the moral thing is not always the smart or right thing. For instance a revolving door criminal justice system. Right thing to do. After all the criminal is a victim of the economic system. A cycle is created increasing crime which causing the working class people to flee to the Republican party because the righteous can not see the writting on the wall. So morality and politics shouldn't mix but that never stops the left and the right from trying.
I do not want to be living in a Theocracy. That is not how the Constitution was written.
13
"...Cruz, in contrast, “probably gets up every morning and asks God for forgiveness at least a couple of times, even before breakfast,” Perry told the audience."
If he wasn't such a fraud and a liar, he wouldn't have to do that...
Besides, people who hear these little voices give me the creeps.
If he wasn't such a fraud and a liar, he wouldn't have to do that...
Besides, people who hear these little voices give me the creeps.
8
Re: Trump, as well as most of the other GOP candidates this year, I can't think of a better reference than to quote Sinclair Lewis: "When Fascism comes to America, it will arrive wrapped in the flag, and carrying a cross."
10
When Puritans ruled Massachusetts, Catholics were banned, Quakers were hanged and celebration of Christmas was illegal.
The denominations of the oppressors and the oppressed change, the spirit remains.
The denominations of the oppressors and the oppressed change, the spirit remains.
12
If patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel, religion must run a close second. It is so terribly easy to talk about how patriotic or spiritual you are and hope that people do not really measure your words against your actions.
In this light, Trump's standing with the evangelicals is just as understandable as his standing with the GOP base in general. The Republican candidates like Cruz and Rubio have been talking about their religious commitment constantly during their campaigns, but oddly having none of that commitment show up when they actually govern. Trump is leveraging the anger from this much as he is leveraging their anger about other issues where they feel betrayed by the GOP politicians.
In this light, Trump's standing with the evangelicals is just as understandable as his standing with the GOP base in general. The Republican candidates like Cruz and Rubio have been talking about their religious commitment constantly during their campaigns, but oddly having none of that commitment show up when they actually govern. Trump is leveraging the anger from this much as he is leveraging their anger about other issues where they feel betrayed by the GOP politicians.
3
"Religion was integral to our country’s founding. It’s central to our understanding of the liberty that each of us deserves."
At the time of the country's founding, only some of us deserved liberty.
That same religion glorified two other pillars of early American democracy; slavery and the genocide of native Americans. That same religion established that a woman was more or less the property of her father, until she became more or less the property of her husband.
Onward, Christian soldiers!
I'll pass.
At the time of the country's founding, only some of us deserved liberty.
That same religion glorified two other pillars of early American democracy; slavery and the genocide of native Americans. That same religion established that a woman was more or less the property of her father, until she became more or less the property of her husband.
Onward, Christian soldiers!
I'll pass.
7
I've always been suspicious of people who beg the Lord's forgiveness regularly. I say live your life in ways that don't demand forgiveness. It seems like that proclamation ("I've found Jesus and he will forgive me my sins.") is a blank check to go forth and commit all kinds of sinful acts.
10
I say no thank you to Christian Sharia law in my country. It has no business here. We are a nation founded on the principal that the church and the state should be kept separate. Keep prayer out of school, take "In God We Trust" off our money. We are a nation who wish to be free of the religious oppression of others whether they be christian, muslim, jain, sikh, mormon or buddhist.
11
An ugly column about an ugly subject that should be banned from political discourse. Religious belief is not enhanced by these vultures from the Republican party and neither is our society. I am gonna go wash my hands.
10
If there's one thing that will send me running, screaming, in the opposite direction, it's the old "Have you found Jesus?" or "Have you read your Bible?" or "Wat chirch doo yoo go too?" That old time religion is not even close to being "good enough for me." All those nutters belong in an enormous glass dome, where they can't get out, and can't reach any of the rest of us. We'll drop supplies...from time to time. Yech!
11
What would Jesus do? Putting aside the whole Jesus/god thing, I'm fairly certain the historical Jesus would be a Democrat. You know, the whole rich man/camel through the needle, feeding the hungry, healing the sick and not carpet bombing people you don't like. Yea, I think he would lump most Republicans with Philistines and the Romans. Just saying.
15
So the white Sunday robes of evangelical voters are put away, to vote on Tuesday for the billionaire they'd like to be, in their hearts.
5
FB's message is reasonable, and makes a rare reference to altruism, a characteristic essential to the survival and success of any species. I advise him to acknowledge that the modern GOP is utterly devoid of altruism other than the kind seen in bloody-handed medieval princes. They built cathedrals to buy their way into heaven. Today they own Lincoln Center and PBS. But as for altruism as fellow-feeling, forget about it.
4
As far as religion coming back to bite one, let's keep an eye on Donald Trump. During his speech at Liberty U, he came within an inch of proposing that Christianity be made the national religion. Well, at some point over the next few weeks or months, we can expect on or more of his rivals - openly or covertly - to start leveraging the fact that his daughter Ivanka is an Orthodox Jew.
2
Bruni's idealist assumptions about faith as a cornerstone of liberty and moral logic are colliding with the fact of evangelical support for Trump. Wake up and smell the dumb.
5
I look forward to the day, however distant it may be, when someone stands for office openly declaring "I am not a person of faith. I don't begrudge you yours, if that's what you believe, as long as you don't try to force it on me. Now that you know that, I'll have no more to say on this subject."
12
Although not mentioned here, I always get inflamed when there is talk of our "Judeo Christian" heritage and values. Somehow Jews get lumped in with the Evangelical Christians as they deride everyone who is not a WASP. Sorry but the values I hear are not the values I grew up with and the bible you are quoting is not the bible I learned from.
In the Old Testament, my take is that G-d gave the heroes trials and travails that they had to live with and decide on their own the best way to work around these problems. It is the human who makes the decision right or wrong.
In the Old Testament, my take is that G-d gave the heroes trials and travails that they had to live with and decide on their own the best way to work around these problems. It is the human who makes the decision right or wrong.
3
I think each Republican candidate should be asked this question: "If you heard a voice telling you to take your child into the desert, tie him to a rock and cut his throat with a knife, would you do it?" It is, after all, the classic method for finding out who is truly devout.
7
President James Earl Carter, Jr. was the only evangelical Christian President and was a Democrat. President Carter's life of exemplar Christian values has taken nothing but rejection from the evangelical community and their voting masters-the Republicans. The Republicans have ridiculed President Carter without mercy. He was voted out of office to be replaced by a Republican, aging actor who was the evangelicals’ darling but he believed the poor and minorities needed to be denigrated and ridiculed and couldn't tell the truth. That didn't stop the evangelicals falling hook line and sink for his performance even though it contradicted the basic tenants of Christianity. The evangelicals signed a contract with the Republicans- the Republican nominated candidates who "talked" about Judaeo-Christian values(not lived by example just talked) and no matter how outrageous the candidate the evangelicals delivered the vote for them. This was proven when a Texan Republican evangelical candidate appeared claiming his favorite book was the Bible while busy planning a war in the Middle East that killed thousands of people. Again he became the darling of the evangelicals. So embrace Ted Cruz, a candidate who will continue the spectacle but please do not act surprised if no one has any respect for your deceitful behavior and your religious fervor. Americans like their religious freedom from government not enforced by government and that is what evangelical candidates are offering.
16
Religion is probably the main reason for wars around the globe, please lets return to our secular roots and quickly before we totally destroy America.
9
It is not a surprise to me that evangelical voters are willing to overlook Trump's transgressions. Evangelicals, in general, are not very open-minded, and are not tolerant of other religions. I imagine his call to ban Muslims from the US caused a few of them to jump for joy. They can now see a possibility that the US truly will be a Christian nation if Trump is in power. As a non-evangelical Christian, I shudder at that possibility.
7
Do any of these candidates ever talk about kindness vs. meanness, or even try to display such behavior? I haven't seen any; this is what would impress me the most.
8
The claim to know what God thinks is the most blatantly false method of boosting the importance of one's own opinions there is.
11
IMO, too often with politicians religion is the last resort of the amoral. If they actually knew right from wrong, they would behave differently. They would not try and destroy laws that kept predatory businesses from abusing their employees. They would not, to save a few dollars, ignore the fact that they were permanently damaging lives by switching water sources as they did in Flint, MI. They would not try over 50+ times attempt to vote against ACA when they had absolutely NOTHING to offer the public in return other than assurances that ACA was evil.
People of real followers of Jesus do not claim that people of color or another faith are people unworthy of living or unworthy of living in America. People of real faith in Jesus follow in his footsteps.
IMO, to be a Republican in today's world is to be a hypocrite and to use the Lord's name to their advantage only.
People of real followers of Jesus do not claim that people of color or another faith are people unworthy of living or unworthy of living in America. People of real faith in Jesus follow in his footsteps.
IMO, to be a Republican in today's world is to be a hypocrite and to use the Lord's name to their advantage only.
6
This article confirms my long standing belief that the Christian Right is neither
10
I am becoming more and more fearful of living in a country where people who want to be President don't have the humility to accept that they might be wrong about God and how they AND we must behave to be in God's good graces.
I don't want to live in a Christian nation. I want to live in a secular nation where a person is free to believe or not believe.
If there is a activist God out there...why haven't these men already been smited for their hypocrisy?
I don't want to live in a Christian nation. I want to live in a secular nation where a person is free to believe or not believe.
If there is a activist God out there...why haven't these men already been smited for their hypocrisy?
9
My immediate response to reading this column was, "Oh dear lord." And I'm an atheist.
20
Great. A country run by a man or woman with an imaginary friend who lives in the sky and talks to them. Perfect!
11
I can't tell what faith these republican candidates are espousing:
Is it faith in the Republican mantra? - after all they do hold the absolute truth and enlightenment
Is it faith in Jesus Christ? - even though it seems to be a pick the verse that fits the topic type of faith
Or, is it a harlot religion that combines the two?
Is it faith in the Republican mantra? - after all they do hold the absolute truth and enlightenment
Is it faith in Jesus Christ? - even though it seems to be a pick the verse that fits the topic type of faith
Or, is it a harlot religion that combines the two?
3
There is no difference between the Muslim who believes that ISIL is necessary to enshrine the will of God in government and a Ted Cruz or Rick Santorum. The irony is that the GOP right wing Christian cultists in Iowa are fooled by Trash Trump and his cynical use of religion to promote his world of narcissism.
11
The fact that there is a litmus test for Republican candidates based on their faith in Christianity and Jesus Christ shows just how far off the rails they have gone. Seriously. can anyone respect or listen to Reverend Falwell after he as the President and leader of the most strident Christian University in the nation endorsed Donald Trump? Donald's faith in terms of God or the teachings of Jesus Christ is not my concern, but without question he is the least " Christian" in terms of how he acts towards his fellow men and women of any other candidate. All of these candidates can express their religious fervor and how they were " reborn" or are on the knees but the fact is they throw all the major teachings of Christianity out the window once they begin to speak about how they want to govern this country and deal with its problems. If these are religious men battling to prove who is the most devout please find me an atheist so at least I will not have to deal with such sanctimonious hypocrisy!
11
When listening to these modern day Elmer Gantrys I am reminded of an Emerson quote. "The louder he proclaimed his honor the faster we counted our spoons. "
183
Oh, how wonderful, Mr. Focht. Thank you.
7
One of the foundational principles of our country was the separation of church and state. It's disgusting to listen to candidates saying that people who don't get on their knees every day (to pray) are not fit to be commander-in-chief or who curry favor with religious leaders who say that Jesus guides our president.
The greatness of religious freedom in America is that it allows for people of any faith, or for atheists of no faith, to hold whatever office they might seek and be qualified to attain. It's sad that religion has become so pervasive in our politics.
The greatness of religious freedom in America is that it allows for people of any faith, or for atheists of no faith, to hold whatever office they might seek and be qualified to attain. It's sad that religion has become so pervasive in our politics.
8
The only "abyss" we need to be pulled back from is the one created by delusional evangelicals. Be it christianity, islam, judaism or hinduism. It is all the same side of the same coin.
Ted Cruz is slime.
Ted Cruz is slime.
6
The Jesus the Dominican nuns taught me about would be very hard pressed not to punch each and every one of the people you describe squarely in the nose for exploiting his good name.
4
Gore Vidal's memoirs *Palimpsest* recall that JFK's only regret about winning in 1960 was this: "Mass every Sunday. Four four years."
2
Random observations:
George W. Bush was "willing to kneel down and ask for guidance from God" — did the Big Guy just not like what the president was praying for, or what?
Let us not forget Trump's comment that he likes to go to church and "eat my little cracker." Why in the world can't Christians who kneel down and ask for guidance from God recognize that statement for the condescending insult that it is?
I'd love to hear Marco Rubio outline, in detail, "God's plan," since he seems so keenly tuned to it.
Finally, can we assume the holy, mighty creator of the universe endorsed the Cruz campaign's 11th-hour Iowa mailer telling potential caucus voters that they have a "VOTING VIOLATION" and offering a Mafia-style quasi threat, "Your individual voting history as well as your neighbors' are public record"?
And those Huckabee characters: They "heard" that Cruz gives less than 1 percent?
Won't happen, but the greatest service we could do for American politics would be to scrub campaigns clean of such holy hypocrisy.
George W. Bush was "willing to kneel down and ask for guidance from God" — did the Big Guy just not like what the president was praying for, or what?
Let us not forget Trump's comment that he likes to go to church and "eat my little cracker." Why in the world can't Christians who kneel down and ask for guidance from God recognize that statement for the condescending insult that it is?
I'd love to hear Marco Rubio outline, in detail, "God's plan," since he seems so keenly tuned to it.
Finally, can we assume the holy, mighty creator of the universe endorsed the Cruz campaign's 11th-hour Iowa mailer telling potential caucus voters that they have a "VOTING VIOLATION" and offering a Mafia-style quasi threat, "Your individual voting history as well as your neighbors' are public record"?
And those Huckabee characters: They "heard" that Cruz gives less than 1 percent?
Won't happen, but the greatest service we could do for American politics would be to scrub campaigns clean of such holy hypocrisy.
3
Your paragraph concerning no litmus tests for religion is belied by all the required Bible thumping you describe throughout the rest of your piece.
1
People who pray for guidance from the imaginary universal personality called "God" only bloat up their own opinions to universal importance. They lie first and foremost to themselves. Anyone who believes them is a sucker.
4
Too many people over too many centuries have been banned, ostracized, tortured and killed who disagree with Rubio's "there is only one savior" remark. We're seeing it now in Syria and Iraq on the name of the " one true faith". We still see it here where a person's sexual orientation is concerned. Pandering to those whose faith borders on the extreme is not only irresponsible, it is dangerous. America doesn't need another "Rum, Romanism and Rebellion" political campaign or president.
147
so many pundits keep pointing out the contradiction of Trump's success with the Evangelicals. But, it seems, the contradiction is only apparent. White, heterosexual, patriarchalist evangelicals--at least some of them--use religion to legitimize their hatred. It is Nietzschean ressentiment: they richly enjoy envisioning their enemies fry in the Satan's giant vat of boiling oil. Trump doesn't need the cover of religion to say the same things: no need to allude to hell to say to the losers "you're fired!"
57
Religious beliefs are one's own, not to be imposed on another.
In matters of governance, the document to revere is our Constitution.
Let's hope all nominees are fully aware of its indisputable primacy (taking particular note of the First Amendment's Establishment Clause).
In matters of governance, the document to revere is our Constitution.
Let's hope all nominees are fully aware of its indisputable primacy (taking particular note of the First Amendment's Establishment Clause).
6
Thou art right, Mr. Bruni.
1
The Gospel of Jesus According to the 2016 Republican Presidential Candidates:
On Capitalism: Do unto others!
On Justice: Cast the first stone.
On Empathy: Blessed are the merciless, for they shall inherit the earth.
On Jobs and the Dignity of Work: Seek, and ye shall not find; knock, and it won't be opened unto you--so sayeth American corporations.
On Children: Suffer little children, especially if you are poor, a refuge, a child of color, a child of gay parents or of a single mother, etc., etc...
On Entering Heaven: It is easier for a rich man to enter heaven than for anyone else, especially if the rich man contributes mightily to Republican political campaigns.
On the Commandments (Republican style):
Thou shalt kill (enemies--which is just about everyone; gun control advocates; and whenever you feel you need to stand your ground).
Stealing is fine as long as you are a wealthy capitalist.
Go ahead and covet—it increases sales.
All is summed up in this single command: Hate thy neighbor, especially if he is not Christian, but is Muslim, black, an immigrant, gay, a woman, a nonwhite, and _______ (fill in the blank).
Go forth, multiply, and vote Republican!
On Capitalism: Do unto others!
On Justice: Cast the first stone.
On Empathy: Blessed are the merciless, for they shall inherit the earth.
On Jobs and the Dignity of Work: Seek, and ye shall not find; knock, and it won't be opened unto you--so sayeth American corporations.
On Children: Suffer little children, especially if you are poor, a refuge, a child of color, a child of gay parents or of a single mother, etc., etc...
On Entering Heaven: It is easier for a rich man to enter heaven than for anyone else, especially if the rich man contributes mightily to Republican political campaigns.
On the Commandments (Republican style):
Thou shalt kill (enemies--which is just about everyone; gun control advocates; and whenever you feel you need to stand your ground).
Stealing is fine as long as you are a wealthy capitalist.
Go ahead and covet—it increases sales.
All is summed up in this single command: Hate thy neighbor, especially if he is not Christian, but is Muslim, black, an immigrant, gay, a woman, a nonwhite, and _______ (fill in the blank).
Go forth, multiply, and vote Republican!
8
To me the most objectionable part of all this is that the candidates are all just pandering. (Trump's pandering is especially transparent.) I'm surprised you didn't use the "p" word.
1
Big frenzied Whoop!
Let’s apply a logic tree to this situation. All the major GOP candidates claim one way or another that “God told me to run for president, and He’s on my side.” If the deity to which they refer does not exist then all the candidates are delusional and should all be rejected. On the other hand, if the deity to which they refer does exist then there are three alternatives: 1) All but perhaps one of the candidates is lying or delusional, and we can’t know which of them is a liar and/or nuts…thus reject all, or 2) There is not one such deity but rather multiple deities sending the same message to the different candidates…so the Christian god is just one of many and thus not almighty, all knowing, etc., or 3) The mono-deity is intentionally lying to all the candidates…he’s just trying to stir up trouble…which makes him, her, or it an unreliable source of ethical thinking or behavior.
Conclusion: Any candidate claiming to be guided by their deity should be rejected outright by the voters. It’s only logical.
Parting thought: G.O.P. no longer stands for the “Grand Old Party”, but rather for “God Owns Politics”. Well, actually he’s a co-owner with Wall Street.
Conclusion: Any candidate claiming to be guided by their deity should be rejected outright by the voters. It’s only logical.
Parting thought: G.O.P. no longer stands for the “Grand Old Party”, but rather for “God Owns Politics”. Well, actually he’s a co-owner with Wall Street.
3
Re Number 2: Since they all claim to be Christian, it would seem there are multiple Christian gods. If there were only 3 candidates making such claims, we might conclude the members of the trinity were in disagreement. But maybe it's not a trinity after all; perhaps it's a baker's dozenity or thereabouts and having one heck of an argument with itself. In any case, its association with these characters makes it certain that, whatever it is, it is not holy in any meaningful sense.
How is this focus on perfect piety, purity, and the superiority of their particular kind of religion anything new for the GOP? You have the bigots who are following Trump like a Pied Piper; and you have the self-worshipping holy rollers, who are often times inexplicably one and the same............nothing new. Good luck, you will need it. It seems Democrats are starting to scratch below the surface of our angry populist promising the moon and the stars, and even a revolution, (which why he thinks that would be enticing I don't know), and find he is a shiny object with little merit. Let's hope the whole country figures out these two "new" old white guys are lying populists who never intend to deliver the goods, as neither one ever has.
1
"I’m less interested in whether a president kneels down than in whether he or she stands up for the important values that many religions teach — altruism, mercy, sacrifice — along with the religious pluralism that this country rightly cherishes."
This just about sums it up for me too. I get really turned off at any politician that constantly talks about religion and any religion the feels they need to change the laws of the land to enforce their beliefs on all of us.
This just about sums it up for me too. I get really turned off at any politician that constantly talks about religion and any religion the feels they need to change the laws of the land to enforce their beliefs on all of us.
4
"“two Corinthians” when anyone with any biblical fluency would have pronounced it “Second Corinthians.”"
Look anyone who'd ever read a book would know it's Second Corinthians. I'm an atheist, and I know it. And that in a nutshell is the problem with Donald Trump. He just doesn't know much about anything except Donald Trump.
As to Ted Cruz...
He is Elmer Gantry without the charm. He is a snake that talks from two-sides of his mouth. He blathers on about his faith but he's an odious human being who's first reaction to any situation is to elevate himself and hurt others.
And that's "my" problem with religion. There seems to be an awful lot of lip service and very little practice. It seems as if all the candidates have to do is yell more loudly and the faithful follow them.
Tell me what is it about the religious that makes them so...easily duped?
Look anyone who'd ever read a book would know it's Second Corinthians. I'm an atheist, and I know it. And that in a nutshell is the problem with Donald Trump. He just doesn't know much about anything except Donald Trump.
As to Ted Cruz...
He is Elmer Gantry without the charm. He is a snake that talks from two-sides of his mouth. He blathers on about his faith but he's an odious human being who's first reaction to any situation is to elevate himself and hurt others.
And that's "my" problem with religion. There seems to be an awful lot of lip service and very little practice. It seems as if all the candidates have to do is yell more loudly and the faithful follow them.
Tell me what is it about the religious that makes them so...easily duped?
10
The main difference between democrats and republicans- Republican politicians must continually reassure the base of their ideological purity. They offer abstract non-actionable policy. Things like making abortion illegal, building that wall, putting more religion into government, etc. Motivation by keeping people fearful. Democratic politicians don't have to do that because the ideology is understood. They don't have to continually tell us why they are liberal. They are then free to describe how the middle class will be strengthened, how they'll create jobs, etc. Motivation by positive messaging.
4
Years ago, in what seemed like a more secular age, one of my patients wanted to let me in on her religiousity as being central to her world view. "You need to know, Doctor, that I am a devour Catholic."
Given present-day circumstances, she was prescient, I think, in her malapropism.
Given present-day circumstances, she was prescient, I think, in her malapropism.
I don't recall Christ saying "Love thy neighbor, unless they're immigrants, Muslims, poor, Democrats, minorities, or women..."
2
A couple of thoughts: "Cruz, in contrast, “probably gets up every morning and asks God for forgiveness at least a couple of times, even before breakfast,” Perry told the audience."
Cruz undoubtedly needs forgiveness more than any of them.
"But just as God is said to work in mysterious ways...."
Can you really trust a god who works in mysterious ways?
Cruz undoubtedly needs forgiveness more than any of them.
"But just as God is said to work in mysterious ways...."
Can you really trust a god who works in mysterious ways?
Beware of anyone who wears the religious cloth, it has been used as a tool to fool the vulnerable, emotional, light minded. It has given new identity to criminals. Go figure the GOP race I am more Christian than you are and I deserve to be the President. Iowa what Iowa!!!!
1
Observing a gaggle of Repblicans competing with one another over who is holier is great entertainment. My vote goes for the preacher man in favor of the death penalty for gays. You just can't be holier than that.
1
To all of these Republican hucksters I see what you pray to - MONEY. You're not fooling me.
1
Trump is the end result of what the republicans have been doing to America. They deserve him. It's karma. I just hope they don't continue to inflict their hate, hypocrisy and greed on the rest of us come November.
2
It is bad enough when a politician pretends to care about your job or your healthcare, but, all of these folks pretending to care about religion is just nauseating. They are all phonies.
I look forward to the day when a candidate of either party can say of his or her faith, " I believe in God, and I believe in the Golden Rule," and then leave it at that.
3
I've witnessed this tired phenomena again and again. GOP candidates promising the Evangelical community all the most venal fire and brimstone imaginable at redemption, reproductive rights and foreign adversaries (real or perceived). Then these same candidates try and furiously flip/flop back towards the center of the electorate in the general election to appear somewhat sane and secular. Huckabee and Santorum won the last two Iowa caucuses, and what did that tell us in the subsequent primaries? That the Iowa GOP caucus voters are a poor indicator of who'll go on to win the nomination and the general election.
4
FINALLY!!!
This egregious abuse of the US Constitution by the Republican candidates is being addressed.
This country was clearly founded on those escaping religious persecution. Period.
ALL references to "god" need to be eliminated from schools, government,courts
and our money.
It is the responsibility of every moderator of the debates to call out these charlatans and hypocrites and remind them that this is a nation founded on THE SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE and that is the very reason the colonists braved their way here.
Why don't the moderators during the debates stop this nonsense immediatley during the debates?
Do they not understand the underpinnings of the Constitution?
We studied the Constitution for an entire year in 10th grade.
No mention ever of "god", what ever ["god"] that means!
This egregious abuse of the US Constitution by the Republican candidates is being addressed.
This country was clearly founded on those escaping religious persecution. Period.
ALL references to "god" need to be eliminated from schools, government,courts
and our money.
It is the responsibility of every moderator of the debates to call out these charlatans and hypocrites and remind them that this is a nation founded on THE SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE and that is the very reason the colonists braved their way here.
Why don't the moderators during the debates stop this nonsense immediatley during the debates?
Do they not understand the underpinnings of the Constitution?
We studied the Constitution for an entire year in 10th grade.
No mention ever of "god", what ever ["god"] that means!
3
Either you believe it or you don't. "Touch not the unclean thing."
One part of the Bible that "evangelicals" and Republican candidates have apparently never read:
Matthew 6:5-13
Re: Prayer
5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
Matthew 6:5-13
Re: Prayer
5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
5
That religion comes up so frequently in politics, especially in the GOP, makes my skin crawl. Ever wonder lots of people don't run? Would have to spent hours being hypocritical and go to church. In fact, if you were making up your resume early on you would have to spend your whole life doing it. When one can pretty much be religious without ever seeing the inside of a church or joining one. Just live by the tenants of most major "religions" and you are religious. But most of all don't bring it up in public. It makes you look condescending and stupid.
So typically Ummurican, talking Jesus and meaning money. The sovereign of the American republic is the Almighty Dollar and the nation was founded by Deists (who we would probably call atheists were they alive among us now) whose ultimate goal in breaking away from the Mother Country Britain was to enrich themselves without the 3,500 mile chain stretching back to that island. Any time one hears Jesus talk from politicians one is further convinced that the Devil can indeed parse scripture to suit his ends.
3
I when considering Cruz and Trump's relationship with God I am reminded of the British order of knighthood - the order of St Michael & St George, which rises through ranks of knight, commander and grand commander, usually awarded as someone becomes more important. The well known joke in Whitehall translates the initials that show someone's rank as follows:
KCMG = Kindly Call Me God
CMG = Call Me God
GCMG = God Calls Me God
Somehow I think that in their own minds both Cruz and Trump hold the GCMG...
KCMG = Kindly Call Me God
CMG = Call Me God
GCMG = God Calls Me God
Somehow I think that in their own minds both Cruz and Trump hold the GCMG...
5
From Ambrose Bierce's The Devil's Dictionary : Faith (n.) Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge of things without parallel.
2
Let's move Iowa down and give the #1 slot in the primaries to some other state such as Idaho so we can listen to these silly men pander to potatoes instead of evangelicals.
(to paraphrase Gail)
(to paraphrase Gail)
1
I cannot speak for the sincerity of the GOP candidates when they speak of their faith as I don't know (or care) enough about them.
But Donald's faith announcements come across as even more cringeworthy than the others since his sincerity is severely questionable considering his past.
As someone (not sure who.) once said about Orson Welles, "There before the grace of God, goes God!".
This could refer equally to the Donald.
But Donald's faith announcements come across as even more cringeworthy than the others since his sincerity is severely questionable considering his past.
As someone (not sure who.) once said about Orson Welles, "There before the grace of God, goes God!".
This could refer equally to the Donald.
2
Rubio's statement of devotion to Jesus over country is exactly why Americans showed such concern over electing a Catholic to the Presidency and why John F. Kennedy was forced to give the speech he gave, pledging to honor the Constitution over the Pope. Because of the unholy alliance of Republican candidates between Capitalists and Evangelicals, the entire party has moved passed that altogether. This country was founded on Separation of Church and State for a reason. I am offended by Rubio's statement and the other Republicans trying to out-Christian each other. I feel marginalized in my own country. Certainly the health care and reproductive rights of women, job rights, housing rights are threatened by this orientation that has now pervaded Congress, the Supreme Court and would move into the Oval Office as well should one of the Republicans win, who manifest disdain for the First Amendment's freedom from religion, and the Constitution's requirement that religion not be used as a litmus test for office.
7
I am a practicing and, I hope, devout Catholic, and I feel marginalized as well. When will these guys read the parable of the pharisee and the tax collector? Or remember that Jesus told us to pray in private, so that God who sees us in private might answer?
Our country's diversity is an important and real dynamic recognized and anticipated at its inception. We need leaders to assess all our needs, accept who we are and make all lives better in a fair and just way. A diverse, tolerant government provides a society of opportunity defined by FDRs 4 freedoms.
Faith is personal and not a suitable test. It is not immutable or predetermined and their is no objective value scale. It disturbs me that candidates in a country founded on principles separating religion from governance find this appropriate and necessary. Whether you read a bible as literal or literary, it depicts a range of behaviors and beliefs providing insights into human behavior among righteous, wicked, faithless. Many undergo transformation. Each of us is represented in some way. Our world mirrors aspects of the bible, not limited to or defined by a specific faith, or a single passage.
Many have a spiritual core, not necessarily a specific belief system; for some a religious or philosophical approach assists as we contemplate issues, uncertainties and decisions.
I do not want a candidate to be judged by an electorate determining their worth based on religion, or compare it to that of others on some mythical bar graph. As a voter, I don't want to be targeted or manipulated because of my faith. Personally I feel it cheapens me. I want my vote to represent my trust in a candidate and confidence they will work for a better society and world.
Faith is personal and not a suitable test. It is not immutable or predetermined and their is no objective value scale. It disturbs me that candidates in a country founded on principles separating religion from governance find this appropriate and necessary. Whether you read a bible as literal or literary, it depicts a range of behaviors and beliefs providing insights into human behavior among righteous, wicked, faithless. Many undergo transformation. Each of us is represented in some way. Our world mirrors aspects of the bible, not limited to or defined by a specific faith, or a single passage.
Many have a spiritual core, not necessarily a specific belief system; for some a religious or philosophical approach assists as we contemplate issues, uncertainties and decisions.
I do not want a candidate to be judged by an electorate determining their worth based on religion, or compare it to that of others on some mythical bar graph. As a voter, I don't want to be targeted or manipulated because of my faith. Personally I feel it cheapens me. I want my vote to represent my trust in a candidate and confidence they will work for a better society and world.
4
A quiet and thoughtful profession of faith, or a polite refusal to so do when asked, and only when asked, is a profoundly credible testimony of a deeply personal lifetime relationship with a supreme being. What is far more convincing of the power of faith is how we live our lives -- with generosity of spirit and a personal struggle to love and to be patient with others, and not the constant bellowing of belief to bludgeon those who don't fit neatly into some hateful square.
13
this is why I find it difficult to believe the declarations of faith by Republicans. They certainly do not agree with Jesus' concern for the welfare of the poor!
2
Perfect. Absolutely perfect.
Taking issue with a comment about about religion being at the core of our founding. That is incorrect, it was at the core of colonization on North America. By the time our nation was founded, it had lost its importance among the thinkers of the time, those who came up with the ideas to structure democracy to function at a scale few have attempted before.
They had to add changes to satisfy the zealots of the day, its called the First Amendment. It didn't give them anything beyond the right to exist so long as they stayed out of government.
Should tel us something, eh?
They had to add changes to satisfy the zealots of the day, its called the First Amendment. It didn't give them anything beyond the right to exist so long as they stayed out of government.
Should tel us something, eh?
18
The first amendment specifically denies Congress any power to enact faith-based legislation. It has been made an utter travesty ever since Congress inserted "under God" into a schoolroom loyalty oath that has deluded three generations of American children.
11
You are very right. The founding fathers were most influenced by the figures of the Scottish Enlightenment, such as John Locke, David Hume, Adam Smith and others. Secondly they were influenced by the great Roman jurists and political philosophers.
Really, what can the Bible teach us about division of powers and checks and balances, etc.?
Really, what can the Bible teach us about division of powers and checks and balances, etc.?
2
The Founding Fathers, though religious themselves, saw clearly the need to separate church and state. Candidates who claim to put God before the Constitution (or who do it without public declaration) are not fit to assume the role of President.
25
Actually, not all of them were religious and those that were, as you suggested, honored other traditions outside of the tenets of their particular religious beliefs. Further, unlike our moral scolds, who presume to use absolutes to define inclusion or exclusion in regard to participation in governance, from the model they created, it is obvious that the Founders recognized the value of compromise, not to mention that without it, their enterprise would have resulted in exactly the kind of ongoing hostility and stasis that characterizes this political era where it's not surprising to see wanna be autocrats and theocrats stepping in to try to fill the void.
2
I find it much easier to make decisions concerning morality and values by not being encumbered by religious dogma.
I sorta gave up on religious dogma with talking snakes, a supposed loving god turning Lot's wife to a pillar of salt, prejudice against eating catfish and ham, and not loving Gays, owning slaves and stoning women. We can go on but i think you get my drift.
I am delighted not to have to give credence to myths, metaphors and fairy tales. I understand and can determine for myself the message contained in them, i do not need a bigoted preacher to explain them to me.
I sorta gave up on religious dogma with talking snakes, a supposed loving god turning Lot's wife to a pillar of salt, prejudice against eating catfish and ham, and not loving Gays, owning slaves and stoning women. We can go on but i think you get my drift.
I am delighted not to have to give credence to myths, metaphors and fairy tales. I understand and can determine for myself the message contained in them, i do not need a bigoted preacher to explain them to me.
23
The mystical meets the mysterious in the GOP equivalent of being "chosen by God" in Iowa. In terms of relation to good governance, maybe the Inquisition or McCarthy's committee on Un-American activities would be better metaphors for the pressures that Iowans undergo on caucus night than ads relegating Cruz to non-Christian status due to his inability to tithe the appropriate percentage of his and his wife's share of Wall Street riches.
The real danger of the Iowa caucuses is that people can't pull the curtain behind them and enter a voting booth and vote privately. Instead, they are subject to the peer pressure of their neighbors and other town rabble rousers, er, I mean local leaders. Being accused of being a witch or a commie may be an exaggeration, but with Trump in the mix, being ostracized by belligerent people who happen to live in the same small town as you might be a deterrent to voting for someone like Kasich or Paul.
The sanctity of the voting booth offers the chance to come to a reconciliation with various conflicting issues by oneself. Iowa doesn't offer that opportunity, and hence is a rigged game that begs to be changed.
The real danger of the Iowa caucuses is that people can't pull the curtain behind them and enter a voting booth and vote privately. Instead, they are subject to the peer pressure of their neighbors and other town rabble rousers, er, I mean local leaders. Being accused of being a witch or a commie may be an exaggeration, but with Trump in the mix, being ostracized by belligerent people who happen to live in the same small town as you might be a deterrent to voting for someone like Kasich or Paul.
The sanctity of the voting booth offers the chance to come to a reconciliation with various conflicting issues by oneself. Iowa doesn't offer that opportunity, and hence is a rigged game that begs to be changed.
11
It may be amazing to the current Republican candidates that there are those of us who consider ourselves somewhat religious yet find all this "Jesus this" and "Jesus that" scary and a good reason to not vote for someone.
We don't care who your savior is as long as you don't preach to us and rub our faces in your religious beliefs.
Proselytizing is a turn-off for more people than you might suspect. Many of those people even celebrate Christmas.
And stop calling it Judeo-Christian anything. It's an insult to Jews.
We don't care who your savior is as long as you don't preach to us and rub our faces in your religious beliefs.
Proselytizing is a turn-off for more people than you might suspect. Many of those people even celebrate Christmas.
And stop calling it Judeo-Christian anything. It's an insult to Jews.
34
I look forward to the day when America can elect an atheist as president.
397
I look forward to the day when America can elect a president and have no idea what he/she believes (or doesn't), because religion has been pushed back to where it belongs - in the church/temple/mosque/whatever...
2
Amen!!!
2
Too bad none of these theopaths ever heard of Matthew 25, one of the few sensible passages in the bible.
Kristof tells of an 'honor killing' where a father shoots his daughter. Bruni tells of the GOP's attempt to 'honor kill' democracy so that a theocracy can be installed, or, more to the point, so that the espousing candidate can be installed in office, in power.
Cruz', et al, efforts are just the insanity of individual 'honor killing' writ-large on our entire nation.
Cruz', et al, efforts are just the insanity of individual 'honor killing' writ-large on our entire nation.
21
I have never trusted anyone who uses their faith to feed their ambitions.
313
It is wise not to trust anyone who claims to know what God thinks.
1
Simply put, the religious right, and with it a good segment of the Republican party, is wrong!
16
Forget political economy. Marx should have written about political theology.
9
Political theology plays upon the emotions of the ignorant. Trump's campaign is pure emotion, utterly devoid of substance.
He did.
The devil can quote scripture just as easily as the pious man
20
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross."
Sinclair Lewis
Sinclair Lewis
46
Marco Rubio worships at both Catholic and evangelical churches. Which leads me to wonder: was he for transubstantiation before he was against it?
"...our life is to cooperate with God's plan."(?) "It's Jesus Christ, who...died for our sins." (?)
Holy Moley! I'm a practicing Catholic and this kind of talk sounds deranged coming from a would-be American president. Maybe God's plan is to scare us straight into voting for the Democrats? Happy to cooperate.
"...our life is to cooperate with God's plan."(?) "It's Jesus Christ, who...died for our sins." (?)
Holy Moley! I'm a practicing Catholic and this kind of talk sounds deranged coming from a would-be American president. Maybe God's plan is to scare us straight into voting for the Democrats? Happy to cooperate.
21
Even the best of them seems to be brainwashed by religion it seems. Hear the word Heaven and the brain shuts down?
These religions born when Kings ruled with an iron fist, there was no democracy, these religions simply made God in his image. it was a top-down society, subjects brought before the King got down on their knees and swore undying loyalty(belief). If pleased, the King let them stay in his kingdom(Heaven) or else!(Hell)
Sad to see that such simple and primitive ideas of God holding sway in the modern age
These religions born when Kings ruled with an iron fist, there was no democracy, these religions simply made God in his image. it was a top-down society, subjects brought before the King got down on their knees and swore undying loyalty(belief). If pleased, the King let them stay in his kingdom(Heaven) or else!(Hell)
Sad to see that such simple and primitive ideas of God holding sway in the modern age
10
The Republicans certainly know their audience. They understand that the same unbounded credulity that allows one to believe in the supernatural also makes it easier to swallow wholesale the myths of trickle-down economics, welfare queens, Mexican rapists, Saddam's WMDs.... and perhaps the most pernicious myth: the founding of America as a 'Christian Nation.'
27
The buy-in to life after death reveals a pigeon ripe for the plucking.
1
Note to GOP presidential contenders pandering to the Iowan electorate:
When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you. (Matthew 6:5-6)
When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you. (Matthew 6:5-6)
24
I have always appreciated the words of Matthew. Thanks for reminding all of us of them. Public piety is, for ambitious men and women, a nasty business. I think with respect of President Carter for not asking us to vote for him because he was/is a pious man.
1
I love Bernie, my best friends are jews, I am voting for Hillary.
Here's why: 1) He's Jewish, Hank & Martha will be up in arms at a Jew in the WH. 2) He's an Athiest, OMG, the GOP will have a field day with that one alone. 3) He's a Socialist. Need I say more? That's three strikes IMO.
Bernie is right about everything he's saying, but unrealistic. Hillary, baggage and all is the more experienced candidates, younger, a woman, and much more practical. I don't want a nice man to be president. I want a hardened, battle test woman. Hillary 2016, Bernie as V.P.
Here's why: 1) He's Jewish, Hank & Martha will be up in arms at a Jew in the WH. 2) He's an Athiest, OMG, the GOP will have a field day with that one alone. 3) He's a Socialist. Need I say more? That's three strikes IMO.
Bernie is right about everything he's saying, but unrealistic. Hillary, baggage and all is the more experienced candidates, younger, a woman, and much more practical. I don't want a nice man to be president. I want a hardened, battle test woman. Hillary 2016, Bernie as V.P.
18
The Supreme Court is where the very meanings of words in the English Language are decreed.
As you can see, my name is Martha and I'd not "be up in arms at a Jew in the WH." The fact is that most Jews do not proselytize and for that we can be grateful. But a Jew from Brooklyn? I think not. We already have Chuck Schumer leading the Democrats. Enough already. On the other hand, Jews are often atheists. Isn't that odd? How many hands do I still have? Okay, he's a socialist, except not really. Well, I don't want him to win the nomination because I'm sure that he can't win in the general campaign. (I did say that about Obama, and was and still am thrilled that I was wrong, but in 2008, the stakes weren't that high, for McCain is an honorable man.) But you have to admit that Bernie's candidacy has been a happy surprise. Bernie from Bensonhurst is actually a viable candidate. Oh, my word. However, he is also Bernie from Burlington, and this country does have possibilities. Oy.
Nice UNDERLYING rant against Christianity. I am sure it will ingratiate you in the high secular chambers of the New York Times. It certainly reaffirms a certain elitist contempt for people of the Christian faith that seems to be a mainstay of this paper. Mocking the faith of the largest religion in the U.S. dovetails neatly with the papers constant refrain of not showing any discrimination or negative profiling of the people of the Muslim faith. It is amazing how a religion whose Savior emphasizes love, forgiveness, and mercy can be perceived as such a threat to our democracy. Yes there are false prophets and hypocrites out there but your poison tipped arrows are directed at the entire flock.
3
I think one reason that a religion "whose Savior emphasizes love, forgiveness, and mercy can be perceived as such a threat" is because its practitioners so often seem to embrace intolerance and ignorance. If supposed Christians were more christlike they wouldn't be the objects of such scorn - and would of course vote Democratic.
33
It isn't the savior who is seen as a danger. It's the people who misuse his teachings for their own glory who are the danger. If, by the entire flock, kyou mean the republican candidates, then it is the entire flock. They espouse christianity but missed the part about love, forgiveness and mercy.
No, he's not ranting against christianity, that's just your paranoid outlook. He's pointing out how people are misusing religion for personal gain.
No, he's not ranting against christianity, that's just your paranoid outlook. He's pointing out how people are misusing religion for personal gain.
1
So forgive him.
Aw, gee. The Donald prays to God to give him humility everyday when he kisses himself in the mirror.
9
When Trump said "Two Corinthians," all I could think was, "Two Corinthians walk into a bar....." There has got to be a joke in there somewhere.
18
"and they start talking to the bartender about this fantastic book they have. But there's a problem. They only have one copy and they can't both read it if they're not together. What are they going to do? The bartender says, 'Well, you need a second Corinthians."
2
Jackie, thanks. This is the first time I've laughed this morning. And I'm still smiling although soon I'll be shaking again. Comic relief, it's called, but the greatest of tragedies have those moments, too.
2
"....unfit for the Oval Office...."
What is the acid test of being "fit for the Oval Office?"
What is the acid test of being "fit for the Oval Office?"
1
I wouldn't hire Cruz if he were the last job-seeker in the world.
Primaries.
Trump and Cruz both flunked already.
Trump and Cruz both flunked already.
Religion and war go hand in hand. It should be no surprise that the Republicans are devout to both for without darkness there is no light.
7
"Why pray to God when you are God,"
thought Trump musing to himself unselfconsciously.
thought Trump musing to himself unselfconsciously.
10
"Cruz, in contrast, “probably gets up every morning and asks God for forgiveness at least a couple of times, even before breakfast,” Perry told the audience."
Who would vote for someone who sins multiple times a day, including before breakfast? Or thinks God is forgetful and needs reminding.
Who would vote for someone who sins multiple times a day, including before breakfast? Or thinks God is forgetful and needs reminding.
12
Trump and the Falwell/Graham crowd play the same hustle. Of course they're natural allies.
13
Inspiration from Donald Trump:
Two Corinthians walk into a bar...
Two Corinthians walk into a bar...
5
And ended up in a fight with some Thessalonians, a few Romans, and assorted Gallatians, Ephesians, and Philippians.
1
Yeah, agreed, but even ask why the Republican race in Iowa resembles a religious litmus test? They personal is political, right?
1
I have been frightened for almost 20 years as Evangelicals have grabbed more and more of a power base in the Republican Party. Refer back to an article Frank Bruni wrote analyzing statistics to show how the Christian Right has an outsized influence on the party, circa May or June 2015. My faith is very important to me. One of my favorite prayers contains the following:
God needs no Prayers and Services,
But I need them
My faith is a very private matter and teaches me how to live my life, hopefully in God's Glory. It is why I told my daughter that our family did not consider abortion a moral choice. On the other hand my faith does not tell anyone else BUT ME what to do. Faith, mine included does not belong in politics. When it is so clearly front and center I am frightened because others are so ready to force their faith on others.
Mr. Bruni, I don't think you are frightened enough. Have you gotten married? If yes, these religious folks would like to invalidate your marriage.
God needs no Prayers and Services,
But I need them
My faith is a very private matter and teaches me how to live my life, hopefully in God's Glory. It is why I told my daughter that our family did not consider abortion a moral choice. On the other hand my faith does not tell anyone else BUT ME what to do. Faith, mine included does not belong in politics. When it is so clearly front and center I am frightened because others are so ready to force their faith on others.
Mr. Bruni, I don't think you are frightened enough. Have you gotten married? If yes, these religious folks would like to invalidate your marriage.
1
Oh dear. Frank,as an investigative journalist, in your extensive coverage on the subject of the G.O.P.'s Holy War, have you asked those evangelicals in the 'war' what would Jesus do? Who would He vote for? Would you perhaps suggest Bernie Sanders?
3
It's safe to say that Donald Trump doesn't have a religious bone in his body, unless self worship is a religion.
9
Indeed if anyone should pray daily for forgiveness it is Ted Cruz who lies shamelessly and is wholly lacking in humility.
7
Separation of church and state is a cornerstone of American democracy. But politicians violate this principle to exploit the religious beliefs of voters for competitive advantage. For example, Marco Rubio has stated on TV that “Our goal is eternity, the ability to live alongside our creator for all time…“ During last week’s debate, he worked religion into an answer to a question that had nothing to do with it. In another occasion lately, he stated: “There’s only one savior and it’s not me. It’s Jesus Christ…”
Rubio is not the only current candidate for President who exploits religion, as shamefully, for political advantage. For example, the key reason for Ted Cruz’s recent surge in Iowa is that he’s been relentlessly targeting Evangelicals. It is potentially a winning strategy. Born-again, or Evangelical, Christians accounted for 60 percent in the 2008 Republican Year in Iowa, and 57 percent in 2012. In 2008, the winner’s share of evangelical vote was 46 percent (Huckabee) and 32 percent in 2012 (Santorum). With the Iowa caucus coming up next week, Cruz’s current share, estimated at 33 percent, is steadily rising. It is his secret for ultimately achieving rank 1 or 2 in this nationally crucial contest. Trump, too, has been hedging, increasingly enriching his buffoonery with dashes of his presumed religiosity. Thomas Jefferson must be turning over in his grave. Regretfully for him and all of us, it is not a new experience.
Rubio is not the only current candidate for President who exploits religion, as shamefully, for political advantage. For example, the key reason for Ted Cruz’s recent surge in Iowa is that he’s been relentlessly targeting Evangelicals. It is potentially a winning strategy. Born-again, or Evangelical, Christians accounted for 60 percent in the 2008 Republican Year in Iowa, and 57 percent in 2012. In 2008, the winner’s share of evangelical vote was 46 percent (Huckabee) and 32 percent in 2012 (Santorum). With the Iowa caucus coming up next week, Cruz’s current share, estimated at 33 percent, is steadily rising. It is his secret for ultimately achieving rank 1 or 2 in this nationally crucial contest. Trump, too, has been hedging, increasingly enriching his buffoonery with dashes of his presumed religiosity. Thomas Jefferson must be turning over in his grave. Regretfully for him and all of us, it is not a new experience.
3
"Religion routinely plays a prominent part in political campaigns, especially on the Republican side, and always has an outsize role in Iowa...."
Nothing against Iowa or New Hampshire, but make California and New York as the first two states to hold primaries and you can weed out the crazies in a hurry.
Nothing against Iowa or New Hampshire, but make California and New York as the first two states to hold primaries and you can weed out the crazies in a hurry.
5
Elmer Gantry should be required reading for Republican voters.
7
If that Jewish socialist from Nazareth were on the ballot, I'd vote for him. Instead I'm voting for the Jewish socialist from Brooklyn.
15
So Cruz is saying only Catholics are fit to be President? I was raised Protestant, and we didn't get on our knees for any reason, ever.
3
Cruz is a Southern Baptist. I doubt he would be commenting about Catholics being fit to be president. He probably feels this way about Protestants especially evangelical ones.
The one image that comes to my mind with this talk of presidential piety
and knee bending is when Nixon begged Kissinger to get down on his knees to pray with him on the eve of his resignation. Not a very edifying picture and really nothing more than an exercise in futility. I think a president who spends time praying is really wasting his and the people's time; time that would be better spent actively working on the issues we face. Wishing problems away is not solving them, and is certainly not a good foundation for leadership.
and knee bending is when Nixon begged Kissinger to get down on his knees to pray with him on the eve of his resignation. Not a very edifying picture and really nothing more than an exercise in futility. I think a president who spends time praying is really wasting his and the people's time; time that would be better spent actively working on the issues we face. Wishing problems away is not solving them, and is certainly not a good foundation for leadership.
4
The Presidential power that these people are practically killing themselves to get is something where they might have to make the kind of decisions that Truman and Kennedy had to: to use nuclear weapons against other human beings and to start a nuclear war. Does anybody think that a president spends his time praying to a God in these moments?
If you believe that Mary was a virgin then you will believe anything.
If you believe that Mary was a virgin then you will believe anything.
5
You bet your bippie George W. Bush prayed his way to invading Iraq.
Cruz is a Christian first, American second (perhaps Canadian, one can't be sure). This may be fine for someone running for bishop, but President????
10
All of this makes me sick. Wearing your religion on your sleeve is not Iowan. Belittling others is not Iowan. I grew up in Iowa, attended Drake University in Des Moines and graduated from the University of Iowa in Iowa City. This is not the Iowa I know and love. These people do not represent the good people of Iowa. The nation is getting a very bad impression of Iowa. It is a shame and totally false.
7
It was reassuring at the debate that Marco Rubio cleared the air and pointed out that The New York Times erred four years ago when it mistook him for Jesus. A lot of Rubio supporters apparently are getting the two confused.
4
It's a risk for a Texan (Rick Perry) to give us mental images of another Texan (Ted Cruz) getting down on his knees to ask God for guidance. We remember all too well what happened when the last Texan got down on his knees for direct advice from the Creator.
Evidently God told the last Texan, "I dunno....ask Dick." Because surely the Omniscient knew that Saddam Hussein didn't have any WMDs, that the intelligence was flawed and that invading Baghdad would be a big, immoral mistake, killing hundreds of thousands of innocents.
Second Corinthians 10:3
"For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does."
Evidently God told the last Texan, "I dunno....ask Dick." Because surely the Omniscient knew that Saddam Hussein didn't have any WMDs, that the intelligence was flawed and that invading Baghdad would be a big, immoral mistake, killing hundreds of thousands of innocents.
Second Corinthians 10:3
"For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does."
6
Perry didn't learn a thing from the futility of his silly narcissistic ineffectual prayers for rain.
1
I couldn't have been said better than Max Von Sydow said it in Hannah and Her Sisters: "If Jesus came back, he'd never stop puking."
6
If you ask for forgiveness a couple of times a day. it means that you are a repeat transgressor. The trouble with being forgiven is that the damage for which you need to be forgiven has already occurred, and maybe not remediable. For a country that was founded on the concept of the dominance of reason, the veer into religion piety as an indispensable element of governance, is immensely disturbing. What has happened to adherence to "strict constitutionalism"?
5
Our founding fathers should be rolling over in their graves! A country founded on religious liberty has devolved into a country where you must prove your Christianity in order to be a presidential candidate on the right. We should be ashamed that we let this genie out of the bottle. In a country for all, we are saying we are a country for the few, and that's just plain wrong.
233
Calgary Ted Cruz is as Christian as my dog. It is a totally calculated affectation on his part. He wasn't raised Christian. His fire and brimstone father didn't sober up and convert until Ted was older. There isn't a thing about Calgary Ted that doesn't ring with opportunism, hubris and falsehoods--his piety included.
8
The president of the USA is not, as Mr. Cruz declares, the "commander-in-chief of the country." The US Constitution says: "The President shall be commander in chief of the Army and Navy of the United States . . ." The president is not MY commander-in-chief because I am not a member of the armed forces. The president acting as commander-in-chief cannot give me, a civilian, an order.
4
think our founding fathers didn't talk so much about religion because they pretty much assumed anyone would be a Christian. but I can't imagine them being as aggressively unintelligent as this bunch. Can any of you imagine Benjamin Franklin being anti-science? Ha!
3
MER, I think your assumption is wrong. For example, when President Madison was asked during the War of 1812 to declare a day of prayer, he refused, commenting something like, if anyone wants to pray, they can do so themselves. Most of our Founding Fathers were not particularly religious, in the sense that so-called fundamental Christians define as religious.
1 / Rubio is full of fairy dust. There is no known recorded incident of a President praying on his knees unless you believe Kissinger that a drunken Nixon once implored HK to get on his knees with him.
2 / Lao Tzu on our so-called religious politicians: "He who knows, does not speak. He who speaks, does not know."
3 / Self-professed religious people in America are aspirational because they usually don't have the guts to tell researchers that they don't go to church and don't believe in fairy tales. Safer to pretend they do. How else to explain the evangelical support for Trump? Those people can't even keep their fairy tales straight.
2 / Lao Tzu on our so-called religious politicians: "He who knows, does not speak. He who speaks, does not know."
3 / Self-professed religious people in America are aspirational because they usually don't have the guts to tell researchers that they don't go to church and don't believe in fairy tales. Safer to pretend they do. How else to explain the evangelical support for Trump? Those people can't even keep their fairy tales straight.
2
When I read about the gross hypocrisy of the GOP candidates touting their Christian bona vides, I think of the Pharisees and the Sadducees and Jesus's admonition to them.
Or Jesus driving the money changers out of the Temple.
Or I think of John 11:35
"Jesus wept"
Or Jesus driving the money changers out of the Temple.
Or I think of John 11:35
"Jesus wept"
8
Two presidents of the United States had no professed religious faith, the distinguished Andrew Johnson, and that flop who preceded him, Abraham Lincoln. Thomas Jefferson was nominally an Episcopalin--sorry, Episcopalian--but openly disdained revealed religion and published a version of the Gospels expurgated of what he considered their objectionable passages. John F. Kennedy faithfully attended Sunday Mass, after which he met with his girlfriend du jour. Junior Bush, however, was a born-again Christian and a good family man.
5
Rubio also claims to be a Catholic. I'll be looking for his adherence to the church's "option for the poor".
4
Rick Perry has it somewhat right. Ted Cruz should ask the American people for forgiveness for the damage he has already on inflicted on us and that which he has yet to do.
6
Blessed is the politican who doesn't proclaim his/her religion as a necessity for governance.
Blessed is the politican who doesn't use his/her religion to pass legislation based on religious dictums.
Blessed is the politican who doesn't stuff their religion down every citizen's throat or lady body parts.
Blessed is the politican who doesn't use his/her religion to pass legislation based on religious dictums.
Blessed is the politican who doesn't stuff their religion down every citizen's throat or lady body parts.
6
I am not a religious person but when I first saw Ted Cruz, I thought, "If there is such thing as the anti-christ, this guy is it."
8
"Religion was integral to our country's founding" - huh ?
"It's central to our understanding of the liberty that each one of us deserves" - huh ?
I don't think so.
"It's central to our understanding of the liberty that each one of us deserves" - huh ?
I don't think so.
7
Sigh.
It is every bit as silly to say that religion had no part in the founding of the United States as it is to say that the United States was founded entirely on Christian fundamentalist principles.
Come on, guys. The great thing was that Paine and Jefferson, Sam Adams and Willam Penn, worked together. And don't even get me started on the roles that Catholicism and Judaism played.
It is every bit as silly to say that religion had no part in the founding of the United States as it is to say that the United States was founded entirely on Christian fundamentalist principles.
Come on, guys. The great thing was that Paine and Jefferson, Sam Adams and Willam Penn, worked together. And don't even get me started on the roles that Catholicism and Judaism played.
I hope somebody in these "debates" asks these candidates what they think of the following in the U.S. Constitution:
"... but no religious Test shall ever be Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States." - Article 6.
Oath of office: “I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”
"... but no religious Test shall ever be Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States." - Article 6.
Oath of office: “I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”
8
In many parts of our world, oppression of women is still carried out, under the guise of religion. Just ask any Republican whom they would like to lead our country - a President or a preacher, a commander or a crusader. Your choice of the word "inquisition" is a perfect fit in this discussion, but most females miss the connection.....
2
It's ridiculous that so many put emphasis on who wins in Iowa.
5
I think I read (long ago) Trump met his second wife, Marla Maples, in church.
2
To be plain and simple, I find the "religious" pandering goings on for the sole purpose of getting votes from the vulnerable completely yuck-worthy. I agree with Seneca, a Roman Stoic philosopher who long ago observed that "Religion is regarded by the common people as true...by the wise as false...and by the rulers as (shamefully) useful."
288
A humble bunch, all personal friends of God. That's obviously why they all behave in such a godly manner. I missed the chapters in the bible growing up, where Jesus' thinking informs us to carpet bomb thousands of innocent civilians to get at a few bad guys. Then there's all that pesky stuff about helping the poor and loving your neighbor. I also don't recall the part about restricting that to your white, upper class neighbor. This is why the founding fathers were wise enough to prohibit politicians from shoving their version of religion down their fellow Americans throats. They understood all too well a core truth about the rich and powerful. Many are all too willing to pervert, distort and divide based on religion, if is to their perceived advantage. Designing the Constitution to prevent them from codifing these varied and distorted religious views into law continues to be one of history's most important acts.
5
Disgusting, really. I don't want to know about their religion. And by bragging on it they imply I am unworthy because I have none.
2
The best evidence that there's no deity is the Republican candidates. Can I hear an "Amen."
8
The Pledge of Allegiance calls for "one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." It does not dictate one nation under Christian, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, or Muslim doctrine, and it certainly doesn't prescribe one nation under Trump, Bush, Cruz, Rubio or any of the other Republicans running for president.
I'd strongly encourage any and all candidates for elective office to focus more on the "indivisible, with liberty and justice for all" passage, instead of their divisive and self-serving, self-applied badges of supposed piety. It's long overdue, and might be far more reflective of the religious values they espouse than is their presumptuous strutting and crowing as if they were striving to become Deacon in Chief.
I'm no Christian, but I doubt that Jesus, their oft-stated role model, would be pleased with their presumptuous channeling of whatever message they think he would have wanted to deliver thousands of years after his death.
I'd strongly encourage any and all candidates for elective office to focus more on the "indivisible, with liberty and justice for all" passage, instead of their divisive and self-serving, self-applied badges of supposed piety. It's long overdue, and might be far more reflective of the religious values they espouse than is their presumptuous strutting and crowing as if they were striving to become Deacon in Chief.
I'm no Christian, but I doubt that Jesus, their oft-stated role model, would be pleased with their presumptuous channeling of whatever message they think he would have wanted to deliver thousands of years after his death.
4
that under god bit was only added in 1954
jesus was kin d of an afterthought
he wont forget that
jesus was kin d of an afterthought
he wont forget that
Time to revert to the original text
"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
1
The law that inserted "under God" into the Pledge of Allegience is a clear and stark violation of "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion". God is an establishment of religion utterly unsupported by science.
3
I'm often reminded of medieval Europe when illiteracy was standard, and people could not read or interpret the Bible on their own. Now, most people are literate, but they still rely on preachers and dubious politicians to tell them what they want to hear. Those who do read the Bible will choose to accept those pieces that fit their thinking and ignore those that don't - something humans have psychologically adapted to do, and what most all of us to to some extent every day. It is easier (and less emotionally painful) to change the information we take in than it is to change the way we view the world (and death, and the afterlife).
I often hear politicians (including our President) say that the American people are not dumb - and maybe they're not. But many are lazy thinkers, and choose not to think critically, nor do they want to feel the discomfort of challenging their deeply held beliefs. All of this primary campaigning of pandering politicians promises them that they will never have to.
I often hear politicians (including our President) say that the American people are not dumb - and maybe they're not. But many are lazy thinkers, and choose not to think critically, nor do they want to feel the discomfort of challenging their deeply held beliefs. All of this primary campaigning of pandering politicians promises them that they will never have to.
6
This question of using religion as a test of purpose was best answered in Lincoln's second inaugural. He said each side in the conflict prayed to the same God for victory. Lincoln went on to say. "God has a higher purpose." If an offense exists, like slavery, it causes violence among those for and against it. If it is not resolved peacefully, then a "woe" befalls the population. In the Civil War 700,000 lives were lost. Our 16th President went even further. If this woe or injury continues, then the nation will not be at peace with itself.
When religious zealots ignore the damage caused by their beliefs, we all pay the price. There will be unwanted disharmony in our country. That speech was over 150 years ago, and what he said that day has come to pass.
Time has shown us that any religious beliefs can not govern the nation or our societal business. We continue to experience the woes that whoever created us shows us doesn't work. In the deep introspection of our spiritual being, the moment has arrived to examine what is right and what is wrong. Peace only comes with tolerance, the value of human worth, and cooperation.
When religious zealots ignore the damage caused by their beliefs, we all pay the price. There will be unwanted disharmony in our country. That speech was over 150 years ago, and what he said that day has come to pass.
Time has shown us that any religious beliefs can not govern the nation or our societal business. We continue to experience the woes that whoever created us shows us doesn't work. In the deep introspection of our spiritual being, the moment has arrived to examine what is right and what is wrong. Peace only comes with tolerance, the value of human worth, and cooperation.
13
The is the problem with Iowa ---evangelicals in particular and religion in general take on a role that is not reflected at all in the demographics of this country. Poll after poll see a country becoming more and more removed from formal religions. I should add that the reference to our founding fathers faith, the fact is, our forefathers, for the most part, were Deists, who based their faith on reason, not divine intervention.
23
I just looked this up.
Percentage of white evangelicals in Iowa = 25%
Percentage of evangelicals voting in 2012 Iowa caucuses = 60%
Therefore, evangelicals exert a disproportionate influence on the outcome of Iowa elections--largely because they make sure to get themselves to the caucuses and vote. And they exert a disproportionate influence on what pandering GOP politicians say in Iowa, and on the media coverage given to Iowa (3 million Iowans; 92% white).
Given the media coverage, besides thinking that the majority of Iowans were evangelicals, I also thought the majority of Iowans were Republicans, but according to a 2014 Gallup poll, 43% of Iowans say they are Republican or leaning Republican, while 41% say they are Democrats or leaning Democratic.
Much ado about very little. The media may be good at drama and covering the bizarre but they are not good at putting things into context or perspective.
Percentage of white evangelicals in Iowa = 25%
Percentage of evangelicals voting in 2012 Iowa caucuses = 60%
Therefore, evangelicals exert a disproportionate influence on the outcome of Iowa elections--largely because they make sure to get themselves to the caucuses and vote. And they exert a disproportionate influence on what pandering GOP politicians say in Iowa, and on the media coverage given to Iowa (3 million Iowans; 92% white).
Given the media coverage, besides thinking that the majority of Iowans were evangelicals, I also thought the majority of Iowans were Republicans, but according to a 2014 Gallup poll, 43% of Iowans say they are Republican or leaning Republican, while 41% say they are Democrats or leaning Democratic.
Much ado about very little. The media may be good at drama and covering the bizarre but they are not good at putting things into context or perspective.
31
Unfortunately, that is why the media has a big influence on elections, second only to the Super Pacs. Why does such a small insignificant state with little diversity get to do their thing first? And most of the people chose not to even show up at the caucuses.
ONLY IN AMERICA
ONLY IN AMERICA
Evangelicals, with their regular conversations about how "my father's house has many mansions," seem a lot like those faithful Muslims looking forward to 72 virgins. Both seem to ignore the softer, kinder portions of their religious texts in favor of the fire and brimstone threats. And they are determined to make life here unpleasant in their fervor to attain that long-term heavenly reward.
I like to imagine their surprise when they die and discover that they threw away their chance for a happy life and it turns out that there are no mansions or virgins waiting. There may be something out there. But I seriously doubt it is mansions or virgins.
I like to imagine their surprise when they die and discover that they threw away their chance for a happy life and it turns out that there are no mansions or virgins waiting. There may be something out there. But I seriously doubt it is mansions or virgins.
46
Brilliant post.
3
Paula--Wish I could also be there to see the shocked, and confused, expressions on their faces! Well, I can imagine it, can't I?
1
I believe it was H.L. Mencken who said, "A Puritan is someone who lives in mortal fear that somewhere, someone is having a good time".
If there is a God, please save us from Evangelicals.
If there is a God, please save us from Evangelicals.
1
The insistence that religious beliefs should play a central role in deciding who becomes president makes me sad, angry and befuddled. Then I get upset.
The same people who cling to the idea that religion should be paramount are the same ones who say govt. should do less to interfere with our lives. Yet, they want the govt. to bring back the good ol'days by prohibiting same sex unions, abortions and anything else they don't like. First, we want to turn govt. off, deprive it of sufficient funding to do the business it has been agreed it should do, then they want it to become activist and impose religious views on everyone else.
What the religious right wants at base is for religion to dictate what govt. does. Theocracy. Every Sunday in church, they are told the world is horrible, evil, corrupt and an affront to Christianity. They want to correct the rest of us, they are not happy leading quiet, devoted lives among the corn fields and billions of summer bugs of Iowa. From their rural isolation, they can see the entire world and see that it is wrong. Religion ceases to be a guide for a good and godly life and becomes a commandment to be depressed.
I know people who are infected with these thoughts. They think god put them here to be in charge of the whole world, of cleaning up sinfulness. This mission is not mentioned in the Christian Bible, but no matter. They are not that far removed from the Taliban, save the laws here that stop them from acting out their radicalism.
The same people who cling to the idea that religion should be paramount are the same ones who say govt. should do less to interfere with our lives. Yet, they want the govt. to bring back the good ol'days by prohibiting same sex unions, abortions and anything else they don't like. First, we want to turn govt. off, deprive it of sufficient funding to do the business it has been agreed it should do, then they want it to become activist and impose religious views on everyone else.
What the religious right wants at base is for religion to dictate what govt. does. Theocracy. Every Sunday in church, they are told the world is horrible, evil, corrupt and an affront to Christianity. They want to correct the rest of us, they are not happy leading quiet, devoted lives among the corn fields and billions of summer bugs of Iowa. From their rural isolation, they can see the entire world and see that it is wrong. Religion ceases to be a guide for a good and godly life and becomes a commandment to be depressed.
I know people who are infected with these thoughts. They think god put them here to be in charge of the whole world, of cleaning up sinfulness. This mission is not mentioned in the Christian Bible, but no matter. They are not that far removed from the Taliban, save the laws here that stop them from acting out their radicalism.
77
Doug--It's a pus-filled infection, to be sure, and there's a shortage in the distribution of the antidote, evidence and information.
1
Oh there is one other thing they find the government useful for...Corn Subsidies!
1
If Cruz ever once in his life had truly confronted his own need for penance, he would never have run for public office. He would have changed career paths and never again put himself in the spotlight. But he is totally incapable of confronting his own ego and his utter unsuitability to lead a nation. He is so delusional, mean and self absorbed that he sets a new low for presidential candidates.
40
I fail to see what a candidate's religiosity has to do with their competence as an elected public official. For once, the Constitution agrees with me.
72
Cruz aims to be the Pharisee-on-the-street-corner, having apparently misread certain key passages in the Bible.
Trump by contrast barely gestures in the direction of the Holy Book, and in a kind of direct marketing, appeals instead to what lies beneath: the desire to control and be controlled. I suspect that for many, it's a great relief to find a leader who speaks to the heart --- an emperor who doesn't even want clothes.
Trump by contrast barely gestures in the direction of the Holy Book, and in a kind of direct marketing, appeals instead to what lies beneath: the desire to control and be controlled. I suspect that for many, it's a great relief to find a leader who speaks to the heart --- an emperor who doesn't even want clothes.
25
Jesus was a Pharisee.
The Republican Party has fostered and empowered an attitude wherein the Constitution promotes the any idiosyncratic belief an individual may have. A personal belief that same-sex marriage is an abomination against God is enough justification for a bureaucrat's denial of same-sex marriage licenses even though that is national law. The fact of sexual abuse is enough to get a woman a pass on studying literature that might trigger flashbacks. Even though federal lands were part of the negotiations bringing states into the United States, violent takeovers of federal lands (with guns a fore-thought) are justified by the Civil Rights era unarmed sit-ins at Woolworth counters.
Now the Republican-controlled Virginia legislature is trying to legitimize personal personal sovereignty of those charged with the task of issuing marriage licenses in the state: "Let the DMV do it!" What if that clerk does not want to do it. What about the clerk that does not want to go to work today? The Republican-controlled Supreme Court has given Chief Justice Roberts the present of corporate sovereignty in the political realm, a goal that he was not able to achieve while in private practice.
The lesson is: Sovereignty in the US is imbued in the national government acting in response to national elections, not individual desires, even corporate persons'.
Now the Republican-controlled Virginia legislature is trying to legitimize personal personal sovereignty of those charged with the task of issuing marriage licenses in the state: "Let the DMV do it!" What if that clerk does not want to do it. What about the clerk that does not want to go to work today? The Republican-controlled Supreme Court has given Chief Justice Roberts the present of corporate sovereignty in the political realm, a goal that he was not able to achieve while in private practice.
The lesson is: Sovereignty in the US is imbued in the national government acting in response to national elections, not individual desires, even corporate persons'.
25
Well, at least it seems Cruz knows what a jerk and what an evil man he is if Perry is correct and Cruz asks God for forgiveness several times a day and even before breakfast.
I love the photo of Trump with phony red hair and that phony halo above his head. Says a lot about who he is.
Now kindly do us all a favor and do a similar photo of Hillary with a phony halo over her head and tell us she asks for forgiveness several times a day. She certainly needs to, starting with her emails
I love the photo of Trump with phony red hair and that phony halo above his head. Says a lot about who he is.
Now kindly do us all a favor and do a similar photo of Hillary with a phony halo over her head and tell us she asks for forgiveness several times a day. She certainly needs to, starting with her emails
3
Religion and politics are one and the same when it comes to destructive creations of mankind. Culture cults are an addition to these. These creations require cults to exist. They cultivate a powerful few at the top. They depend on money and use fear, anger and hate to generate money and thus their power. And we know how much god loves and needs money, don't we? Religion and politics demand submission and obedience. They demand the suspension of intelligence, critical thinking, common sense, science and other more natural experience-learned lessons in order to be a "true" believer. They destroy the humanism and humanness of mankind. Religion is a perfect match for politics in the destruction of humanity. Rally on, America and let your conscience be you misguide as you do.
10
No Dwight only religion does this, that is why the republicans are calling on it so heavily. They have nothing politically.
1
Statements like the ones made by Cruz and Rubio should disqualify a candidate seeking public office. There is absolutely no proof that God exists, and Jesus may be a composite of a dozen or so people who were running in and out of the desert in those times, claiming to be the Son of God and born of a virgin mother.
In effect what these holy rollers are saying is they believe in fantasy and myth and want to govern those of us who use intellect and logic by their values. What this country needs is an intelligent atheist as its president.
In effect what these holy rollers are saying is they believe in fantasy and myth and want to govern those of us who use intellect and logic by their values. What this country needs is an intelligent atheist as its president.
85
Faith exist. Why do you have so much trouble with other people's faith? Particularly the Christian faith? What scientific evidence do you have atheist is a better leader than a Christian ? Assuming they're both intelligent. Is it faith based .
Could it be that like myself you prefer a person that leads with facts rather than self righteousness and not let a false sense of morality cloud their judgement?
Could it be that like myself you prefer a person that leads with facts rather than self righteousness and not let a false sense of morality cloud their judgement?
God could himself clear this up but he remains as silent as ever.
Amen.
I have no problem with a president (or any elected official) that professes a particular religion. However, when they start trying to make public laws that follow just one religion's particular tenets (making that tenet superior to other religions or that require the non religious to follow a law based on religious beliefs), no way. Religion should be personal and Sanders is correct, everyone believes (or doesn't believe) in God in their own ways. Secondly, when an official elected to serve all the people (without regard to race, creed, color or religion) and their religious beliefs conflict with public law and they feel they cannot fulfill their elected duties, they should not remain in their position. You can have all the religious beliefs you want on your personal time but keep them to yourself when doing your job. That is the problem with at least half the candidates of the Republican party. Saying you are letting God make the decision for you and trying to put your religious beliefs into public law (no matter how large the majority of followers in your district) automatically loses my vote.
68
All efforts to enact faith-based legislation seek to undermine the entire concept of limited delegated powers the Constitution is comprised of.
1
I am not an Evangelical Christian, but I would fine with an Evangelical President, provided that their positions on the issues truly reflected Jesus’s teaching. But when I hear candidates talking about carpeting-bombing countries and killing thousands of innocent people, I have to ask, where exactly in Scripture does Jesus tell us to go out and kill everyone on earth who might, maybe, someday pose a threat to us? When I hear them angrily and triumphantly talking about killing Obamacare with nothing to replace it with, I have to ask, where exactly in Scripture does Jesus tell us ignore the sick, the poor, and the oppressed? And even when I hear them bragging about how righteous and pious they are, and using their own righteousness as a yardstick against which other candidates should be measured, I have to think back to the parable of the Pharisee and the collector in Luke 18:9-14. These candidates are the Pharisees, not the tax collectors.
498
All of the alleged teachings of Jesus are hearsay. There is no holographic record of anything the man is purported to have said.
1
'Religion was integral to our country’s founding."
Religion was certainly around, but it would be far more accurate to say that The Enlightenment--and hence secularism--was integral to this country's founding, so much so that without it the US would never have happened. The US was founded precisely to get away from the corrupt and amoral role that religion played in Europe.
The Founding Fathers would be appalled to see what has happened to this country, Thomas Jefferson would regard Ted Cruz as an ignorant buffoon if he were alive today.
Religion was certainly around, but it would be far more accurate to say that The Enlightenment--and hence secularism--was integral to this country's founding, so much so that without it the US would never have happened. The US was founded precisely to get away from the corrupt and amoral role that religion played in Europe.
The Founding Fathers would be appalled to see what has happened to this country, Thomas Jefferson would regard Ted Cruz as an ignorant buffoon if he were alive today.
86
I never before realized how much I had in common with Thomas Jefferson, other that having attended his eponymous high school.
Does anyone else find it ironic that the evil Europeans who spawned the noble Americans are now lightyears ahead in terms of religious attitudes and acceptance?
"Rubio visibly brightened when a voter brought up faith and gave him an opportunity to expound on it."
It would be even nicer if he did the job he had been elected to do. But expounding... probably brings more satisfaction.
It would be even nicer if he did the job he had been elected to do. But expounding... probably brings more satisfaction.
10
I look for a person who does not believe in fanciful, superstitious religious nonsense. Grounded in reality not medieval malarkey.
25
As Christopher Hitchens put it, "God is not good." Religious beliefs impair the average person's ability to make rational judgments. The evidence for this is overwhelming.
22
America is insane. I don't know which is worse the religiosity or the hypocrisy. If I had to choose between a religious nut like Cruz, Santorum or Huckabee or a hypocrite like Trump or Bush, I would have to pick the hypocrite. I understand hypocrisy. We're all hypocrites to some extent. On the other hand I find religion a complete mystery and can only conclude that these people are mentally ill. God bless America.
20
There is sizable group of evangelicals who hold with the toxic belief that having money is a sign of God's favor. That's the reason Trump has the support he does, as long as he's willing to give a token nod to Christ.
22
If anyone needs to get down on their knees every morning and beg forgiveness, it is Cruz, Trump and Rubio for all the nonsense and cruelty that comes out of their mouths daily.
30
I cannot help but think of Russell D. Moore of the Southern Baptist Convention.
It is possible to be a devout Christian an Evangelical and a leader in the largest Christian denomination in the USA and still be honest about the men who framed the constitution and admit that the USA was not supposed to be a Christian or any other kind of religious country. It is possible to be a Christian Evangelical and admit Jefferson, Franklin, Adams and Paine did not believe in your God or maybe not in any god. America is about government of the people and rendering unto Caesar what is Caesar's and rendering unto God what is God's. Jefferson called himself a Christian because he believed Jesus was the greatest man that ever lived and that Jesus called for a separation of Church and State that was absolute. That is after all what rendering unto Caesar means isn't it?
The GOP debate was an obscenity, it was unAmerican it was a celebration of lies and half truths. We confiscated 150 Billion dollars of Iranian money when they deposed our chosen dictator. Whether what we did was legal or illegal giving the money back to Iran is not Obama bribing Iran with American money.
There are too many dangerous lies going around but the most dangerous is that the USA was founded as a Judeo-Christian state. The founders believed the only way to protect religious freedom was with a state that was strictly secular humanist.
The GOP debate was strictly UnAmerican.
It is possible to be a devout Christian an Evangelical and a leader in the largest Christian denomination in the USA and still be honest about the men who framed the constitution and admit that the USA was not supposed to be a Christian or any other kind of religious country. It is possible to be a Christian Evangelical and admit Jefferson, Franklin, Adams and Paine did not believe in your God or maybe not in any god. America is about government of the people and rendering unto Caesar what is Caesar's and rendering unto God what is God's. Jefferson called himself a Christian because he believed Jesus was the greatest man that ever lived and that Jesus called for a separation of Church and State that was absolute. That is after all what rendering unto Caesar means isn't it?
The GOP debate was an obscenity, it was unAmerican it was a celebration of lies and half truths. We confiscated 150 Billion dollars of Iranian money when they deposed our chosen dictator. Whether what we did was legal or illegal giving the money back to Iran is not Obama bribing Iran with American money.
There are too many dangerous lies going around but the most dangerous is that the USA was founded as a Judeo-Christian state. The founders believed the only way to protect religious freedom was with a state that was strictly secular humanist.
The GOP debate was strictly UnAmerican.
45
You nailed this one.
1
Anyone who purports or, worse, actually believes, to have divine guidance when making momentous decisions affecting the entire country (or world) is truly frightening. Decisions inspired by God always have some element of infallibility, which is the last thing you want in a president. I can only hope that these guys won't make it or, if one of them does, that all the religious talk was just that: phony.
This is also the reason Bernie is proving so popular: he's the only one in the entire field, Hillary included, where you just KNOW, what you see is what you get, it's not phony, it's not pure ambition, it's not ego, its genuine passion and belief in certain basic principles, whether you agree with them or not. He's also a seasoned adult, as opposed to many on the Republican side.
This is also the reason Bernie is proving so popular: he's the only one in the entire field, Hillary included, where you just KNOW, what you see is what you get, it's not phony, it's not pure ambition, it's not ego, its genuine passion and belief in certain basic principles, whether you agree with them or not. He's also a seasoned adult, as opposed to many on the Republican side.
28
The Republicans will bash Bernie as an atheist if he gets nominated.
1
Well then you would get nothing from Bernie Sanders, because there is no way he will be able to get medicare for all.
1
The truly faithful will reject the false prophets who wave the cross as though it were a political banner. They will do what in their hearts is right for the nation as well as their religion.
9
I'm prepared to boast of my faith enough to express thanks for this.
2
i suppose we will never know how much $ trump has given to falwell jr's university. and it will be interesting to see whether the people of iowa fall for the embarrassing, sudden self-righteous piety of trump and cruz. they should be playing the song "with god on our side" to open campaign rallies. oops, no, on second thought, that would probably get a little too close to the truth.
12
Just because we have the right to be ignorant in this country doesn't mean we have to exercise that right all the time the way the republican party seems determined to do.
35
"Religion was integral to our country’s founding. It’s central to our understanding of the liberty that each of us deserves."
Actually it is central to "non liberty". Note that one of the ten commandments says "Thou shalt not bear false witness." Would you like there to be "liberty" to bear false witness?
If we ask whether religion is true, my opinion is that it is mostly false. But the question is whether it is beneficial to society. And there the picture is mixed.
When in India recently I was interviewed by a husband and wife team, both of whom have MBAs, neither eats meat nor drinks alcohol and their main project these days is to produce something like an Indian version of Ted talk.
It seems their subdued religiosity is good for them.
Think about the crime rate in India and compare it to the crime rate in American neighborhoods where incomes are low even though higher than in India. It does seem as if, despite repeated complaints from THIS newspaper, that people in India behave decently to others, even of different religions.
How much of Paul Kalanithi's idealism came from his Christian father and his Hindu mother? (Read When Breath becomes Air).
Religion as s system of belief is mostly false. But religion as a way of life, especially when not imposed on others, may well be like Bach or Mozart. It gives a good flavor to life.
We do not ask about Bach whether his music is true. But what it does FOR us.
Actually it is central to "non liberty". Note that one of the ten commandments says "Thou shalt not bear false witness." Would you like there to be "liberty" to bear false witness?
If we ask whether religion is true, my opinion is that it is mostly false. But the question is whether it is beneficial to society. And there the picture is mixed.
When in India recently I was interviewed by a husband and wife team, both of whom have MBAs, neither eats meat nor drinks alcohol and their main project these days is to produce something like an Indian version of Ted talk.
It seems their subdued religiosity is good for them.
Think about the crime rate in India and compare it to the crime rate in American neighborhoods where incomes are low even though higher than in India. It does seem as if, despite repeated complaints from THIS newspaper, that people in India behave decently to others, even of different religions.
How much of Paul Kalanithi's idealism came from his Christian father and his Hindu mother? (Read When Breath becomes Air).
Religion as s system of belief is mostly false. But religion as a way of life, especially when not imposed on others, may well be like Bach or Mozart. It gives a good flavor to life.
We do not ask about Bach whether his music is true. But what it does FOR us.
10
Religion just makes people stupid by blocking inquiry.
Uh...when you were in India, did Pakistan, honor killings, and the frequent murderous giant riots among Hindus and Muslims happen to come up as subjects?
Isn't it ironic that in the time of ISIS, so many Americans complain, "Where are the moderate Muslims? Why don't they speak out against the extremists?"
Meanwhile, perhaps we Americans should be more concerned with "Where are the moderate Christians and Jews? Why don't they speak out against the extremists?"
Moderate Muslims, particularly in Muslim countries, are far more concerned about extremists, and often quite vocal and active about extremists - although this is not often written about in Western media, and even much less frequently read about by Western readers. And it's not surprising moderate Muslims are far more concerned about extremists; Muslims are far more often, literally on a daily basis, victims of extremists, than are Westerners. Muslims would happily trade for the frequency of terrorism experienced in the West; in comparison to their own reality they'd consider Western frequency of terrorism a virtual miracle of peace.
We in the West, particularly in the U.S., should be far more concerned about the extremism amongst our own religious cohorts. There are too many who actively crave the End Times, Armageddon, the After Life. Any political candidates pandering, either cynically or sincerely, for the support of those who want religion to subordinate secular government are not going to pursue policies that sustain us, not in this country, not on this planet.
Meanwhile, perhaps we Americans should be more concerned with "Where are the moderate Christians and Jews? Why don't they speak out against the extremists?"
Moderate Muslims, particularly in Muslim countries, are far more concerned about extremists, and often quite vocal and active about extremists - although this is not often written about in Western media, and even much less frequently read about by Western readers. And it's not surprising moderate Muslims are far more concerned about extremists; Muslims are far more often, literally on a daily basis, victims of extremists, than are Westerners. Muslims would happily trade for the frequency of terrorism experienced in the West; in comparison to their own reality they'd consider Western frequency of terrorism a virtual miracle of peace.
We in the West, particularly in the U.S., should be far more concerned about the extremism amongst our own religious cohorts. There are too many who actively crave the End Times, Armageddon, the After Life. Any political candidates pandering, either cynically or sincerely, for the support of those who want religion to subordinate secular government are not going to pursue policies that sustain us, not in this country, not on this planet.
53
How do we get this comment on the front page?
1
As much lying and sinning these GOP candidates are doing, they'd better
be on their knees many times a day begging for forgiveness for their
multitudes of transgressions.
be on their knees many times a day begging for forgiveness for their
multitudes of transgressions.
40
Begging for forgiveness is fine, but getting up from the knee and repeating the same mistake is foolish.
1
This was great. Why can't I recommend it?
I am one of the "non-religious", or an atheist. Politicians who claim that "God will guide them" will not get my vote. I want someone who will examine the facts and take responsibility for their decisions.
33
Last time around the schoolyard, it was a question of being conservative enough. Now it appears the test, if it could ever be devised, is how Christian are you. Since no one is Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist or Atheist among the GOP candidates, the next debate should really explore the merits of Catholics, Protestants, Episcopalians, Baptists, Mormons, Seventh Day Adventists, etc. Put it all out on the table. I suspect a revelation or two will be proclaimed but in the end everyone knows Donald is not by any measure, very devout and Ted is not just praying for the Apocalypse but actively pursuing it. And one thing would surely be gained: there is no measure to the depth of ludicrousy of this country's election process.
278
I can't wait for the day that voters will decide in favor of a candidate who acknowledges, if not understands, science. Enough with the religious litmus test.
10
I cringe at the cynical pandering by most of the Republican candidates and at their seeking endorsements and support of the extremes of the evangelicals. As a friend said to me, "they may be religious but they are not Christian".
9
Anyone who doesn't begin his day on his knees isn't fit to be President of the United States - really? These people are beginning to scare me - this is really against the religious establishment clause of the Bill of Rights in my opinion. We're not voting for an Ayatollah - or maybe we are. If these GOP contenders want to be the Theologian in Chief maybe they should move to someplace like Iran. Otherwise, they should focus on discussing policy and making proposals for solving the nation's problems - without depending on divine intervention.
11
The virtually ecclesiastical presidential candidates will ultimately be judged by their Creator. But for now, we should listen to those who went to school with them, debated with them, lived with them. If we do, we will perhaps understand better why Trump, the self-reputed womanizer, is backed by more evangelicals than the self-aggrandizing putative Christians who are running against him.
The belief in life after death defies physics. It is totally delusional.
Even the Adversary can quote chapter and verse from the Bible. The Adversary wears many faces and two of them are familiar. Their faces are Trump and Cruz.
2
These republicans want a president who asks God for guidance, embraces guns whose only purpose is take lives, denies healthcare to the sick and the needy, and denigrates gays and those who are different?
Are we referring to the same God here, or are we talking about St. Reagan?
Are we referring to the same God here, or are we talking about St. Reagan?
8
True Christians embrace the tenet "turn the other cheek." With the exception of Kasich and Bush, the Republican candidates espouse "eye for an eye" mentality. Cruz, who reminds me eeriely of Joseph McCarthy, certainly does not sound Christian when he promises to carpet bomb Muslim nations until the sand glows. Rubio is no better, flashing his hawkish teeth every opportunity he gets. So, this embrace of religion is total hypocrisy, total pandering to the evangelicals, who, curiously, don't seem to mind that Trump once professed that adultery is not a sin. And how's this for irony: Bernie Sanders, an atheist, is a person of empathy for the poor, sacrifice, altruism, all qualities most of the Republican candidates sorely lack.
8
After reading this, I like Rubio even less if that's possible. I suspect evangelicals have come to realize that a hyper-religious candidate can't get elected so they're opting for the next best (worst) thing.
8
William Safire tackled this problem in 1992, and no matter how much I usually disagreed with him, I thought he was right with "God Bless Us."
"The answer is that the name of the Lord is being used as a symbol for the other side's immorality, much as the American flag was used in previous campaigns as a symbol for the other side's lack of patriotism."
The whole column is worth a read.
http://www.nytimes.com/1992/08/27/opinion/essay-god-bless-us.html
"The answer is that the name of the Lord is being used as a symbol for the other side's immorality, much as the American flag was used in previous campaigns as a symbol for the other side's lack of patriotism."
The whole column is worth a read.
http://www.nytimes.com/1992/08/27/opinion/essay-god-bless-us.html
3
The most disturbing line is when Cruz advises his audience to "pray on it." It drips with phoniness, Huck Finn prayer revival phoniness. Pray on it. He keeps saying it. I hope Iowa sees through his fake sincerity. A prayerful person doesn't brag about prayer, or even really bring it up. Backward people go on and on about prayer. Cruz is backward, all talk, no real prayer focus. People who are focused that way don't boast and advise and preach. They just show up and lend a hand. Cruz shows up and judges and advises and "prays on it" and is generally creepy. He wants the evangelical prayer vote and that is all.
13
Ted Cruz indicated that he did not like "New York values". For some of us that might mean a veiled reference to liberals, atheists and yes, Jews. Anti-semitism is not the same as anti-Israel. Apocalyptic rhetoric is a favorite theme of fire and brimstone christian preaching, and 'Jews killed Jesus' is neither historically nor biblically correct; the Romans did. Inclusive comapassion for me is much more a presidential requirement than law without justice.
2
Do you suppose any of these guys has even the remotest clue that this kind of display actually offends many voters, and in fact would have offended many of this country's founders?
My guess is they don't care; it's all about what's exigent at the moment. I find this not only offensive but scary.
My guess is they don't care; it's all about what's exigent at the moment. I find this not only offensive but scary.
6
The Trump popularity among evangelicals becomes obvious when you define the group for what it really is: white evangelicals. It's Trump's repeated racist statements that attracts this group - not his religion. For a vast number of white evangelicals, white supremacy and the perceived threat to their way of life posed by immigrants and non-whites trumps (pun intended) religion. Or, more accurately, white supremacy is conflated with their religious beliefs and culture. You can't talk about or understand Trump's attraction to evangelicals without understanding that we are talking about white evangelicals. Once you do that, the attraction is self-evident.
12
Hypocrites... all of them. They profess piety and in the next breath they're advocating ending healthcare for millions and bombing civilians in the Middle East. They scream about abortion rights yet profess their devotion to personal responsibility and self determination. They abhor gay rights, immigrants and the poor. "Love thy neighbor" is reserved for church on Sunday... after which it's quickly forgotten. If these candidates and evangelicals truly practiced what they preached they wouldn't be republicans. Hypocrites.
24
"Love thy neighbor" is likely narrowly defined as the guy or gal next to you in the pews, on sunday...Once you are out of the church, forget those dark skinned (or substitute with your favorite not like us descriptive) neighbors.
1
Religion religion is just another aspect of the modern gop campaign strategy. Like making appeals to the tea party, homophobes and the 1%, professing your religious bonafides is what's necessary to get elected in this increasingly idiotic election process. God forbid (pun intended) if you don't check off that box.
5
The Constitution separates Church and State (Article VI and Amendment I) but religion and politics have always been stirred together in America, never more so than in the current race for the GOP nomination. And the stirring has created a noxious stew of bigotry and hatred that some Christians, at least, are lining up to partake of. It remains to be seen if this will determine who runs for president on the Republican ticket, but it will certainly give the Party trouble in the morning.
5
As a Christian, I am revolted by Cruz saying "Awaken the body of Christ to pull this country back from the abyss.”
How dare he invoke Jesus' name for his own sleazy political ambitions. He's lucky Jesus is forgiving. This voter is not.
How dare he invoke Jesus' name for his own sleazy political ambitions. He's lucky Jesus is forgiving. This voter is not.
18
It is disturbing to the see the dark menace of religious zealotry in Marco Rubio's "Jesus and Savior"debate rant, Jeb Bush's Christian preference immigration remarks, and Ted Cruz's cynical piety. Christian fundamentalism in the U.S. is an intellectual prison and a mortal enemy of a truly free society. Conservative Republicans attempt to foist their sectarian values on secular American society by advocating laws against same sex marriage, abortion, and LGBT rights.They oppose funding PPH, and their rejection of the science of Global Warming illustrates their embrace of irrational dogma rather then empirical fact. They are engaging in supreme irony. Republicans continually rant against Muslim Sharia law, yet they are apparently oblivious to the fact, that when they try to impose their Medieval religious prohibitions on American law, they are supporting a Christian version of Sharia law. They are free to practice and prohibit anything they want, but I don't want their bigoted, irrational beliefs and superstitions inflicted on me or my family.
561
I have been waiting for someone more eloquent than I am to articulate the hypocrisy of those Republican candidates who wrap themselves in the Bill of Rights and then seek to violate its provisions to appeal to those who have never read either our Constitution as interpreted by the Supreme Court. These are men without character unqualified even for office.
18
Mr. Shipp,
Well said. I wish candidates could take a voluntary pledge NOT to invoke religion in their campaigns. Such invocation, which for a long time has exceeded the bounds of good taste, is irrelevant to the civil discourse of the non-religious and trivializes something very important to sincere believers. Thanks for your comment.
Well said. I wish candidates could take a voluntary pledge NOT to invoke religion in their campaigns. Such invocation, which for a long time has exceeded the bounds of good taste, is irrelevant to the civil discourse of the non-religious and trivializes something very important to sincere believers. Thanks for your comment.
3
Were one of these unholy rollers to gain the Oval Office, it would be a pretty clear violation of the 1st Amendment- he'd be using a federal building for religious affairs.
And with all due respect, cram the Iowa caucuses. They don't speak for the rest of America, and the rest of America knows it. Time for a diverse, populated state to shove Iowa out of the limelight.
And with all due respect, cram the Iowa caucuses. They don't speak for the rest of America, and the rest of America knows it. Time for a diverse, populated state to shove Iowa out of the limelight.
9
Time for same-day primaries/caucuses all held on same day.
2
None of these odious people deserves the attention Mr. Bruni gives them. As for their faux religious pronouncements: they're just manipulating a part of the Republican base that professes religious conviction but acts as if we're still in the epoch of The Crusades. This country is not a theocracy, though one couldn't tell that from the way these imbeciles act.
6
The Republican Party: The miracle of the fishy loafers.
8
Nothing exposes the evangelical right's hypocrisy and ignorance so much a their supporting a belligerent blowhard who exhibits un-Christian behavior every time he opens his mouth. are they really so stupid as to believe this man represents Christian values?
8
Who will save us from the Godful and the Jesus-afflicted? This is the worst disease from which the planet is suffering right now. If there really was an omnipotent God looking out for humanity, he would strike dead all these sniveling hypocrites who yammer on about him. That they continue to yammer on is proof there is no God.
8
It is very clear from the republican candidates to the Bundy occupation in Oregon that people who have no facts will fall back on religion to justify ridiculous positions.
8
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Danbury Baptist Association, CT., Jan. 1, 1802
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Danbury Baptist Association, CT., Jan. 1, 1802
10
Private letter. No legislative value
There is no god, no established religion, and no religious test for public office in our Constitution.
And then we have Thomas Jefferson's great Wall of Separation between church & state which works because good fences make good neighbors.
And then we have Thomas Jefferson's great Wall of Separation between church & state which works because good fences make good neighbors.
7
The Republican candidates are falling all over themselves to get the evangelical vote by all proudly touting their bigotry and intolerance. Cruz is the worst of the bunch, aligning himself with the most extreme of the gay hating crowd; he's proudly picked up the endorsement of people like "Kill the Gays" pastor Kevin Swanson and noted hate group leader (Family Research Council) Tony Perkins. But all of the candidates are spewing the same gay-bashing talking points. Is this what it means to court the religious vote in 2016? It sounds like 1940.
12
Why is it so many care so much about the personal religious views of others? If everyone kept their beliefs private (as they should be), practiced them in the appropriate places and didn’t judge others who believed
differently – can you imagine how much more peaceful the world would be?
How many wars murder and other heinous acts have been committed in human history in the name of religion? Not faith, spiritual guidance or belief in humanity but religion.
It’s one group of humans telling another that they’re wrong. It’s one group of people using religion to manipulate the masses to oppose another grouping of people based on their own interpretation of a faith.
Religion is an easy way to take a group of people with like-minded beliefs, group them together and manipulate them for some kind of ulterior goals. By simply using the wrath of God religious leaders can often convince people to support a specific leader to avoid eternal damnation. And this isn't just a Christian thing you can see it in almost every religion.
differently – can you imagine how much more peaceful the world would be?
How many wars murder and other heinous acts have been committed in human history in the name of religion? Not faith, spiritual guidance or belief in humanity but religion.
It’s one group of humans telling another that they’re wrong. It’s one group of people using religion to manipulate the masses to oppose another grouping of people based on their own interpretation of a faith.
Religion is an easy way to take a group of people with like-minded beliefs, group them together and manipulate them for some kind of ulterior goals. By simply using the wrath of God religious leaders can often convince people to support a specific leader to avoid eternal damnation. And this isn't just a Christian thing you can see it in almost every religion.
11
To me, anyone who injects Christianity into our govt is ineligible for my vote, and dangerous to my people.
20
Words from one of the first Christian Evangelicals-Saint Timothy:
1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful unholy,
3 Without natural affection, truce breakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, high-minded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
8... men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men...
1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful unholy,
3 Without natural affection, truce breakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, high-minded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
8... men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men...
1
That was written to Timothy, not by Timothy.
1
The religious fanaticism exhibited by the GOP panel is very disturbing, because it demonstrates total ignorance of WHAT the "founding fathers" actually believed about religion.
The Puritans in Massachusetts came over to escape religious persecution whereas the businessmen in the mid- and southern Atlantic states were traders.
Those who came together to found this United States were VERY careful NOT to make religion a major issue in their new Constitution. Every president is free to believe what he wants, and the beliefs that make a presidential candidate a winner should only be related to how he believes his fellow man should be treated. In other words, "The Golden Rule" which existed long before Christianity came along and which Jesus Christ was apparently at great pains to perpetuate.
The Puritans in Massachusetts came over to escape religious persecution whereas the businessmen in the mid- and southern Atlantic states were traders.
Those who came together to found this United States were VERY careful NOT to make religion a major issue in their new Constitution. Every president is free to believe what he wants, and the beliefs that make a presidential candidate a winner should only be related to how he believes his fellow man should be treated. In other words, "The Golden Rule" which existed long before Christianity came along and which Jesus Christ was apparently at great pains to perpetuate.
301
The Puritans came to the wilderness to escape cosmopolitan Amsterdam and its estrangement of their children from their harsh religion.
The word God does not appear in our Constitution. It should not appear in our politics, laws, schools... or anything American.
3
The Puritans didn't cross the Atlantic so much to escape religious persecution as to be able to do the persecuting themselves of anyone who didn't adhere to their particular religious dogma. Not a shining example for anyone.
2
Every single one of the Republicans is unfit for office because they don't respect the fact that we are a country filled with people of many faiths or no faith at all. There is no religious test to become president because the Founding Fathers, who were so much wiser than any member of the current GOP crop, didn't include one -- ON PURPOSE.
I am sick to death of the false piety and hypocrisy of these so-called "Christians." If they ever support laws that help the poor, keep our Earth clean, and advance peace among nations, like the deity they supposedly revere, I might actually listen. At this point, I have nothing but utter contempt for them.
I am sick to death of the false piety and hypocrisy of these so-called "Christians." If they ever support laws that help the poor, keep our Earth clean, and advance peace among nations, like the deity they supposedly revere, I might actually listen. At this point, I have nothing but utter contempt for them.
14
The way in which the Republicans have been using religiosity as a qualification is facile and irrelevant to the Presidency. Ben Carson repeats a narrative (unsubstantiated, too) that Jesus saved him and others from his own anger at a young age. Then, Donald Trump just doesn't know about Carson's Seventh Day Adventist faith, adding that his own is mainstream. And, proud as Trump is of "The Art of the Deal," it doesn't compare with the Bible. Rand Paul's libertarian beliefs mean no government encroachment - except for abortion and gay marriage, where his religious beliefs should form everyone's laws. And so on.
Compare these politically expedient Christian references with the actions of Pope Francis. The Pope has been willing to meet with leaders of Iran and Cuba, regardless of faith, to further diplomacy. The Pope is a trained scientist who believes that environmental stewardship is everyone's responsibility, not that climate science contradicts the Good Book. Pope Francis specified abortion as but one "right to life" issue, alongside war, capital punishment and poverty, though he noted that it is treated as "an obsession." Pope Francis asked the world's leadership to care for refugees, regardless of their religion. And so on.
Such is the difference between living one's values, versus using faith as a guise for a political program and a litmus test for office.
Compare these politically expedient Christian references with the actions of Pope Francis. The Pope has been willing to meet with leaders of Iran and Cuba, regardless of faith, to further diplomacy. The Pope is a trained scientist who believes that environmental stewardship is everyone's responsibility, not that climate science contradicts the Good Book. Pope Francis specified abortion as but one "right to life" issue, alongside war, capital punishment and poverty, though he noted that it is treated as "an obsession." Pope Francis asked the world's leadership to care for refugees, regardless of their religion. And so on.
Such is the difference between living one's values, versus using faith as a guise for a political program and a litmus test for office.
7
If any of this crop of bible-thumping Republican hucksters and frauds makes it to the White House, *I'll* be on my knees begging the invisible sky boss to preserve our benighted land for the next four years.
8
We are so far past bizarre with these Republicans. If there is a God, please smite somebody . . . anybody . . . . just to shake things up a little. And, God, if you agree with the likes of Ted Cruz please save me spot in Hell. No, really.
9
Those religious Iowans have a chance to vote for a candidate that espouses the main tenants of their book. A Democratic Socialist Jew just like their savior. One who has dedicated his life to those with less. Those who are victimized. He has tried to bring up everyone beneath him with a welcoming hand and a word of encouragement. He speaks truth to power. He wishes to overthrow the money lenders and clean out our governmental halls of those who only wish to make a profit with unclean hands out begging for lobbyist dollars. Instead many are looking at Cruz and T-rump.
Remove that log from your eyes Iowans!
Remove that log from your eyes Iowans!
7
How things have changed. Recall how JFK had to aver that, as president, it wouldn't be Rome that would be calling the shots. We wanted a leader who answered to the people, not to one or another person's god. Now, you've got most of the candidates outsourcing the job to an entirely unelected power. I guess if I were to be that sort of president, I'd be down on my knees first thing in the morning too, waiting for instructions.
5
If the GOP candidates were Muslim the country would be up in arms denouncing them as ISIS envoys demanding faithful adherence to Islam! How can they complain about radical Islam when they are peddling radical Christianity?
14
"Religion...(is)...central to our understanding of the liberty that each of us deserves."
Nuh-uh. Religion ain't central to nothing and, hence, a major part of the problem.
Nuh-uh. Religion ain't central to nothing and, hence, a major part of the problem.
10
You don't mention John Kasich in this fine summary of how Republican candidates pander to God and evangelicals in Iowa. Kasich today earned the NYT Editorial Board's endorsement for the GOP in Iowa and hopefully part of that calculation is that the United States of America is way beyond a religious test of who should be president.
2
"God" is as a good excuse as any for hurting your imaginary enemies, while eliminating taxes for the 1%.
9
To quote Woody Allen in Hannah and her Sisters, "If Jesus saw what was being done in his name, he'd never stop throwing up."
10
I hope I am not praying to the same diety Trump, Cruz and Falwell are.
4
Here's what I pray for: that Cruz, Trump, and Rubio are no more successful than Santorum and Huckabee, who won the last two Iowa caucuses by appealing to narrow-minded Fundamentalists and far right-wingers...after which their campaigns came to a virtual full stop.
You notice that Iowa Republicans don't make the same mistake twice; they just make a new one. It's also time to stop letting a small, non-representative state cast the first votes in the nation.
You notice that Iowa Republicans don't make the same mistake twice; they just make a new one. It's also time to stop letting a small, non-representative state cast the first votes in the nation.
6
If there was ever a time we needed religion, it certainly is now. What is wrong in mentioning God during a debate? Where do the three democrats stand on this subject? You do not need to beat it to death but it is refreshing to hear that some candidates believe in a higher power. Our world is in chaos and we need all the prayers we can get. You do not have to wear your religion on your sleeve, but I know many religious folks who are kind and generous. They talk the talk and walk the walk. They give their time and energy to charitable endeavors and donate financially to their churches each Sunday. Whenever there is a catastrophe they are willing to chip in and reach into their pockets and contribute. Let's hear from the democratic candidates on this issue. We are waiting.
1
Is mentioning The Almighty and one's Christian values the ticket to ride for the Republican candidates for POTUS in Iowa? When was the religion of candidates so nauseatingly ever-present in primary caucuses for the Presidency? Righteousness and holier than thou-ness has been exhibited to a horrific degree during this nasty social media run-up to Monday's first caucus vote in our country. The United States are dysfunctioning, off the rails, in this presidential election year. Church and State are no longer separate and if religious litmus tests are required for everyone running for public office and selfless service to we, the people, then our beloved America is in the saddest shape since demagoguery and Cotton were King.
5
The best thing to come out of the Trump campaign so far is to reveal the religious right and the evangelical movement for the hypocrites and liars they are and have always been. It has always bee clear to me that their "family values" have nothing to do with families and they don't give a hoot about fetuses, or babies, or children of any age. They just want to retain their right to dominate women. That's the whole story. Their sudden allegiance to Donald Trump shows that clearly. In fact, it has crossed my mind to wonder whether Trump is the trickster here and when he withdraws from the campaign (for surely he does not want the job, any more than Ben Carson does), he will reveal that his purpose in running the campaign was to expose the hypocrisy of the so-called religious right.
8
Agree with you that the religious right and evangelicals are hypocrites and Trump (also one) has helped expose them. But please, stop being a whining victim and a one issue voter. You sound like a Republican, or on second thought-- Hilary--"vast right wing conspiracy".
It is sad that people of faith have to play down their beliefs today especially in liberal cities like New York. It is funny even on this comment board that people frequently boast of their atheism like it was a badge of honor. As a practicing Catholic, I once never mentioned I attended Church but no more. I am not ashamed to say I am Catholic but do not wear it on my sleeve. I will defend my faith which defines who I am. When the going really gets tough, which it will on occasion, I put my trust in God. He has never failed me and I give him thanks daily. I am truly a blessed person.
1
Frank, the Italian educator, scholar, philosopher and writer Umberto Eco wrote a compelling fictional account of the dangers of religious fanaticism in 1980, translated into English in 1983, The Name of the Rose. The setting is a monastery in 1327. The Inquisition details an Englishman and his acolyte (the narrator) to the scene to investigate a single murder that breeds several others. The carnage originated because of a zealot's defense of rigid interpretation of the New Testament. The cruxes of the matter were (a) did Christ own property and (b) did He smile? We fall into the abyss when we presume to know the will of God. It should go without saying that the right to believe or not believe is a guarantee of our American constitution. By attempting to enforce our biases upon others, in especial the deep waters of religion, we arrogate to ourselves a power that is otherworldly and unworkable in a pluralistic society, one in which the freedom to worship (or not) should be sacrosanct, but is daily violated by the Religious Right, the coiled serpent of hate and evil will that would squeeze life to death in a vise of polemics and politics gone completely awry. Perhaps the research staffs of Cruz and Rubio would do well to look up the articles where President Obama has confessed to going on his knees to beg for wisdom and insight, having been presented with a problem of overbearing proportions. Faith and religion are matters not of the brain or the heart, but of the spirit.
1
"I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's." –Mark Twain
Trump with his widely publicized affairs, divorces and infidelities criticizes the spouse of another candidate, and condemns one of the world's great religions by calling for Muslims to not be admitted to this country while they are already productive citizens, soldiers and good Americans. Cruz with his bizarre Dominionism and anointed status is happy to share a stage with a pastor who has called for the execution of gay people. Trump and Rubio want to close down mosques. Huckabee wanted every American forced at gunpoint to listen to the speeches of David Barton (an extremist who thinks even the Federal highway system is unconstitutional). And so on.
Possibly they should reread the words of America's founding fathers on religious freedom and tolerance, such as George Washington's famous letter saying, "For happily, the government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution ..."
Trump with his widely publicized affairs, divorces and infidelities criticizes the spouse of another candidate, and condemns one of the world's great religions by calling for Muslims to not be admitted to this country while they are already productive citizens, soldiers and good Americans. Cruz with his bizarre Dominionism and anointed status is happy to share a stage with a pastor who has called for the execution of gay people. Trump and Rubio want to close down mosques. Huckabee wanted every American forced at gunpoint to listen to the speeches of David Barton (an extremist who thinks even the Federal highway system is unconstitutional). And so on.
Possibly they should reread the words of America's founding fathers on religious freedom and tolerance, such as George Washington's famous letter saying, "For happily, the government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution ..."
4
"Religion was integral to our country's founding." Nope, not really. While religion was personally important to many of the nation's founders and its soldiers the founding fathers worked hard to keep government out of the hands of religion and to keep government from involvement in contending religions' many feuds over small matters. They were informed by the Enlightenment, by the ugly history of religiously motivated wars in the years before them and by how European governments used religion to restrain and tax their populations.
Not for nothing the Constitution has no mention of God or Christianity. Not for nothing Jefferson stripped a Bible of all its miracles to highlight Jesus's morality rather than his divinity. Not for nothing John Adams submitted to the Senate and received unanimous ratification of the 1797 Treaty of Tripoli giving it effect as the law of the land. Treaty Article 11 states "the Government of the United States of America, is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."
The founding fathers wanted religious freedom and freedom from religion. The circus of candidates trying to out genuflect each other for votes shames themselves and the country, not only for their failure to stand up for altruism, mercy, sacrifice and pluralism but also for their pandering. How disappointed the founders would be in how far away we have come away from the Enlightenment.
Not for nothing the Constitution has no mention of God or Christianity. Not for nothing Jefferson stripped a Bible of all its miracles to highlight Jesus's morality rather than his divinity. Not for nothing John Adams submitted to the Senate and received unanimous ratification of the 1797 Treaty of Tripoli giving it effect as the law of the land. Treaty Article 11 states "the Government of the United States of America, is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."
The founding fathers wanted religious freedom and freedom from religion. The circus of candidates trying to out genuflect each other for votes shames themselves and the country, not only for their failure to stand up for altruism, mercy, sacrifice and pluralism but also for their pandering. How disappointed the founders would be in how far away we have come away from the Enlightenment.
7
I thought there was supposed to be no religious test for President or any other federal office. These people are saying that only Christian evangelicals who spend all their time on their knees are qualified to be President. What a farce! They are the ones unqualified to be President.
5
First, let's be clear. There is no 'holy' among the Republicans, only a War, each adversary worse than the other. Every negative trait and temperament befits them. They are such hypocrites!!! Cruz should ask for forgiveness every time he opens his mouth and even that would not suffice due to the venom pouring out of him. Trump may pretend he has a golden halo but what he really has is straw hair and yellow bushes for eyebrows. Rubio, the boy-faced Senator is praying for wisdom. Then he will be praying forever. As for the rest of the gang, nothing will save them from hell. All these nincompoops have conveniently forgotten that there is a clear separation of Church and State. The only exception is Kasich who thinks if there is a well-meaning God, that would be a Government taking care of it's citizens. Now that is real piety.
1
The Cruz-ade, rubs me the wrong way Rubio and sanctimonious Santorum before them, are just too over the top to be taken seriously - except by the evangelicals. When this country needs action, the last thing I want to see is a leader on their knees asking for guidance from upstairs. As for Trump, I am sure he will provide guidance to everyone else who kneels before him.
2
@PAN: As to Trump.....Has anyone actually ever seen him in church on Sunday, with his bible in hand? This fact has been strangely unreported, or witnessed by the media, I believe. And where in NYC does he worship? What church does he attend? Perhaps he has a special Trump Chapel in his penthouse, so that he can be closer to god!
I have no idea what Bruni is talking about when he insists that religion had a major, and important part in establishing our country.
I recall that those we usually refer to as the founding fathers had as little to do with dis- or organized religion as possible for individuals in the 18th century. I keep trying to imagine which president ever spent any "knee time" with god or anything except maybe looking for his cigars that rolled under a desk. Americans , especially our founders and then all the presidents of the 19th and 20th centuries, were a singularly a-religious group. The office is one that spares very little, if any time,(except on Sundays, in front of photographers), communing with either spirits or gods.
Of course, in the Bible, in the New Testament, I seem to recall, it is only considered proper to carry on a relationship with one's god in the quiet and dark, and ultimate secrecy of ones own "closet" That those who carry on, praying loudly so all will know of the nature of their faith, are more likely to be despised by God,who knows them and sees through them for the hypocrites that they are.
I recall that those we usually refer to as the founding fathers had as little to do with dis- or organized religion as possible for individuals in the 18th century. I keep trying to imagine which president ever spent any "knee time" with god or anything except maybe looking for his cigars that rolled under a desk. Americans , especially our founders and then all the presidents of the 19th and 20th centuries, were a singularly a-religious group. The office is one that spares very little, if any time,(except on Sundays, in front of photographers), communing with either spirits or gods.
Of course, in the Bible, in the New Testament, I seem to recall, it is only considered proper to carry on a relationship with one's god in the quiet and dark, and ultimate secrecy of ones own "closet" That those who carry on, praying loudly so all will know of the nature of their faith, are more likely to be despised by God,who knows them and sees through them for the hypocrites that they are.
5
I hadn't realized The Donald mentioned pre-nupts at Falwell and it made me laugh out loud until then reading a pastor endorses killing gays in this country.
There's always more to learn in this election cycle, that shocks and appalls.
There's always more to learn in this election cycle, that shocks and appalls.
9
The Puritans came to this country seeking the freedom to worship in a manner that was their choice, not imposed on them by the state. They promptly then insisted that everyone worship in a manner exactly like themselves. I don't see that conservative Christianity has changed much over the last almost 400 years.
6
It is not "impossible to know the genuineness of someone's faith." We simply need to look at observable behavior. Ted Cruz's behavior fails miserably to live up to his expressed Christian principles. He would need to increase his charitable giving by a factor of 20 to match the principles he talks about (but does not act on).
5
I think that Frank (and a multitude of others) give too much credence to the religiosity of Iowan folk, and even the so-called evangelicals.
When push comes to shove, those supposedly pious GOP pitchforks will vote with their gut, i.e., racist leanings. Just look at the color of the population as an indicator of how welcoming Iowa is to minorities. (Along with Maine and Vermont, too, I suppose).
When push comes to shove, those supposedly pious GOP pitchforks will vote with their gut, i.e., racist leanings. Just look at the color of the population as an indicator of how welcoming Iowa is to minorities. (Along with Maine and Vermont, too, I suppose).
4
As a 63 year old gay man, watching the speeches on various news programs Bruni describes in this column is very disturbing. Large swathes of voters searching for a 21st century Christ figure as their POTUS is a bizarre twist in reaction to advances in minority civil rights. The GOP candidates appear to be capitalizing on a backlash to the Supreme's decision on marriage equality. It's disconcerting to think that my partner of 34 years and I are the object of such scorn and ridicule. We are in every way ordinary people with the same hopes, problems, struggles and joy everyone experiences. I thank my lucky stars I live in Massachusetts.
9
The religious hypocrisy of these Republican politicians is frightening. There's that old line, much used but always useful:
"You don't need to tell me you are a christian, let me figure it out for myself."
Figuring on it a bit ... not a one of these men or women strikes me as living by Christ's words and example in central ways, though I'll admit that Ben Carson comes the closest. He is unelectable for other reasons (strangely ignorant and seemingly unintelligent on a wide range of subjects) -- but even Ben fails the central tests of a follower of Jesus: concern for the poor and outsiders, mercy, forgiveness of others, pacifism.
One might ask each of them about the parable of the good samaritan, and Jesus' sermon on the mount. The words seem to have gone through their ears many times, leaving no trace.
"You don't need to tell me you are a christian, let me figure it out for myself."
Figuring on it a bit ... not a one of these men or women strikes me as living by Christ's words and example in central ways, though I'll admit that Ben Carson comes the closest. He is unelectable for other reasons (strangely ignorant and seemingly unintelligent on a wide range of subjects) -- but even Ben fails the central tests of a follower of Jesus: concern for the poor and outsiders, mercy, forgiveness of others, pacifism.
One might ask each of them about the parable of the good samaritan, and Jesus' sermon on the mount. The words seem to have gone through their ears many times, leaving no trace.
7
The implications of Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz professing their "Christianity" as part of their Presidential campaigns are far worse than most people understand.
Rubio and Cruz are not simply campaigning to merge Church and State (As if anything about our government was ever inherently inimical to Judeo-Christian ethics.). No, Rubio and Cruz are campaigning to SUBORDINATE State beneath Church.
What is this really a problem? Because Rubio and Cruz, taken at their word, are believers in the End Times, in Armageddon, and they are promising their constituents a government congruent with those beliefs. That means, Rubio and Cruz are proponents for a government that will do NOTHING to impede Armageddon and the End Times. In fact, they believe not only in not standing in the way of prophecy, but they believe in aiding and abetting prophecy.
In other words, they not only actually believe in climate change, but they are also enthusiastic and optimistic about it. Global warming, if we're lucky, will in fact destroy life on Earth. And if that doesn't work, we've got the chance of nuclear war, or overpopulation and mass starvation, as backup. Government and diplomacy are bad, precisely because they ameliorate the opportunities for mass destruction.
This is what Rubio and Cruz want. It's what the voters who support them want. Because somehow, the God that created the Universe all on His own, somehow needs, wants and demands our help to destroy the Earth. Government is only in the way.
Rubio and Cruz are not simply campaigning to merge Church and State (As if anything about our government was ever inherently inimical to Judeo-Christian ethics.). No, Rubio and Cruz are campaigning to SUBORDINATE State beneath Church.
What is this really a problem? Because Rubio and Cruz, taken at their word, are believers in the End Times, in Armageddon, and they are promising their constituents a government congruent with those beliefs. That means, Rubio and Cruz are proponents for a government that will do NOTHING to impede Armageddon and the End Times. In fact, they believe not only in not standing in the way of prophecy, but they believe in aiding and abetting prophecy.
In other words, they not only actually believe in climate change, but they are also enthusiastic and optimistic about it. Global warming, if we're lucky, will in fact destroy life on Earth. And if that doesn't work, we've got the chance of nuclear war, or overpopulation and mass starvation, as backup. Government and diplomacy are bad, precisely because they ameliorate the opportunities for mass destruction.
This is what Rubio and Cruz want. It's what the voters who support them want. Because somehow, the God that created the Universe all on His own, somehow needs, wants and demands our help to destroy the Earth. Government is only in the way.
8
Yeah, on his knees praying for forgiveness after he carpet bombs the middle-east into oblivion.
Our best Presidents have always been careful to distance themselves from Biblical extremism of whatever brand, and understood the importance of a strong wall between church and state.
Christ said that they are like the whited sepulcher, filled with rot and impurity on the inside.
Our best Presidents have always been careful to distance themselves from Biblical extremism of whatever brand, and understood the importance of a strong wall between church and state.
Christ said that they are like the whited sepulcher, filled with rot and impurity on the inside.
5
I'm shocked that the pious, who believe in an all powerful diety that created the world in 7 days, that denies all scientific proof to the contrary and goes all in for a book that was written in the Iron Age would fall for this stuff (and they consider themselves conservative?). Believing these candidates are not pandering to the "believers" is truly a leap of faith.
6
Look at the Evangelicals flocking to Trump, with his bigotry, dirty mouth, and vicious temperment. Look at the Evangelicals flocking to Cruz, with his rabid hate for the poor. These are the "Christians" who all they have to do to be good Christians is believe in Christ. Belief, that is the sole criteria. Their Christianity does not include compassion or care for the weak and sick. So trying to prod Trump and Cruz "Christians" by pointing out their hypocrisy or their failure to be merciful and loving or by their elevation of wealth above all else is going no where.
3
I can understand why a person whose job has been shipped overseas or whose farm has been colonized by agribusiness seeds or whose degree from a prestigious university has done nothing to jump start a career might finally drop to his or her knees and hope against hope that there might be some unseen presence who is willing to listen to prayer and able to lighten the sometimes insupportable load of existence.
However, when the leader of my country bases policy on one-sided conversations with an imaginary friend in the sky, I can only rue humankind's fetish with celestial Lotto.
Behold the Cruz egotism that is wrapped so tightly in ostensible religious humility: Of myself I am nothing, but I have the ear of the big guy who doeth the works. So elect me!
If depth of devotion to an omnipotent deity were an effective way to gain boons for friends and neighbors, one would think that the great Desmond Tutu might have succeeded more quickly removing the Afrikaner weight from the chest of his people. As a devout but bereft Oklahoman in "The West Wing" asks after a tornado has killed four children, "What kind of God would do such a thing? How could this be part of any plan?"
If there is any deity, it must be made flesh in day-to-day reality. Justice, mercy, forgiveness. The climate is changing. Social mobility is increasingly a myth. We make heroes out of industrial and financial criminals.
If the Galilean were to appear today, he'd probably ask, "What are you looking up here for?"
However, when the leader of my country bases policy on one-sided conversations with an imaginary friend in the sky, I can only rue humankind's fetish with celestial Lotto.
Behold the Cruz egotism that is wrapped so tightly in ostensible religious humility: Of myself I am nothing, but I have the ear of the big guy who doeth the works. So elect me!
If depth of devotion to an omnipotent deity were an effective way to gain boons for friends and neighbors, one would think that the great Desmond Tutu might have succeeded more quickly removing the Afrikaner weight from the chest of his people. As a devout but bereft Oklahoman in "The West Wing" asks after a tornado has killed four children, "What kind of God would do such a thing? How could this be part of any plan?"
If there is any deity, it must be made flesh in day-to-day reality. Justice, mercy, forgiveness. The climate is changing. Social mobility is increasingly a myth. We make heroes out of industrial and financial criminals.
If the Galilean were to appear today, he'd probably ask, "What are you looking up here for?"
12
The fact that the majority of Christians don't experience the slightest temptation to inject their religion into the law of the land must be very disconcerting to evangelicals.
We had a President who was conspicuously born-again, and brandished a Bible at least once a week (Jimmy Carter), but even he demonstrated what the Constitution demands -- complete separation of church and state.
Thirty years of American wars in the Middle East must have driven home the point that when religion enters government, the fused form of religion+government becomes an agent of death.
We had a President who was conspicuously born-again, and brandished a Bible at least once a week (Jimmy Carter), but even he demonstrated what the Constitution demands -- complete separation of church and state.
Thirty years of American wars in the Middle East must have driven home the point that when religion enters government, the fused form of religion+government becomes an agent of death.
23
The fact that supposedly so many Evangelicals back Trump is indicative of the fact that the religious issue is a smoke screen for supporting the same old bigotry. These people --in the name of religion and said and done some very unChristian things--all to stoke racism, homophobia, misogyny and a denial of reason and science.
And Trump---truly as unreligious as any Presidential candidate in decades--is the type of authoritarian that these so called God Fearing people truly love.
And Trump---truly as unreligious as any Presidential candidate in decades--is the type of authoritarian that these so called God Fearing people truly love.
35
They are all as about religious as a jelly donut. Like all of their deeply held "convictions" and so called "beliefs" it's just window dressing to fool the rubes and the yahoos into voting for them, so they can get on with the job of turning America into a vassal state for the one percent. Values and morals, of which Republicans have neither, are, like taxes,, for the little people. The only values that matter to Republicans are expediency, opportunism, and power for powers sake. The voter is just a fool to be manipulated, not served or respected. Their attitude and governing policy is that of P. T. Barnum: "There's a sucker born every minute."
35
The religious outsiders of the 70s - Fundamental and Pentecostal Christians - traded some of their cherished beliefs for a place of power in Washington during the Reagan 80s. They have been sliding down an apostate slope ever since.
The dirty secret of many Fundamental churches today is they don't have much to do with the Gospel. They simply dress up neoconservative politics in God-talk. Liberty University was famously exposed as caring little about its own "honor code" all students sign, but ferociously punishing students who express liberal ideas, in Kevin Roost's investigative book _The Unlikely Disciple_. It should not surprise anyone that "evangelicals" (the media's muddied code-word that often stands for "Fundamentals") back a candidate who clearly disdains not just Christianity but the very teachings of Christ.
The dirty secret of many Fundamental churches today is they don't have much to do with the Gospel. They simply dress up neoconservative politics in God-talk. Liberty University was famously exposed as caring little about its own "honor code" all students sign, but ferociously punishing students who express liberal ideas, in Kevin Roost's investigative book _The Unlikely Disciple_. It should not surprise anyone that "evangelicals" (the media's muddied code-word that often stands for "Fundamentals") back a candidate who clearly disdains not just Christianity but the very teachings of Christ.
29
"Evangelical" is not a media-muddied euphemism for "fundamentalist." Evangelicalism in America is a pietist form of Protestantism that has been in America since the early- to mid-19th century. Fundamentalism is a rigid antimodernist reaction that for Protestants, at least, arose within evangelicalism in the early 20th century. Other religions and Christian traditions have their own militantly antimodernist movements, their own fundamentalisms - Jewish fundamentalists, for example, are known as Haredis.
But since the fundamentalist-modernist controversy made its mark in the 19th century, "fundamentalist" has become such a scowl-word that Protestant fundamentalists themselves themselves avoid the word, preferring to call themselves evangelicals or simply Christians - think of the old joke about the guided tour of heaven.
Easier for the MSM to treat evangelicalism as the monolith it is not. So you're right that "evangelicalism" is a muddied word in the media.
For more, see the evangelical scholar George Marsden or the mainstream Lutheran scholar Martin Marty.
But since the fundamentalist-modernist controversy made its mark in the 19th century, "fundamentalist" has become such a scowl-word that Protestant fundamentalists themselves themselves avoid the word, preferring to call themselves evangelicals or simply Christians - think of the old joke about the guided tour of heaven.
Easier for the MSM to treat evangelicalism as the monolith it is not. So you're right that "evangelicalism" is a muddied word in the media.
For more, see the evangelical scholar George Marsden or the mainstream Lutheran scholar Martin Marty.
1
On the night of the 1928 Presidential election, when it was obvious that the first Catholic to be a candidate for Pres. was going down to a decisive defeat, that man, Al Smith, is said to have turned to an aide and quipped that someone better call the Pope and tell him to unpack his bags.
The current crop of religious zealots running for President, who hold their Christian Bible in one hand and the US Constitution in the other, show that religion continues to cut both ways in our electoral process. And for the most part that is not good.
Kudos to the founding fathers for understanding through their own experiences in the 1700's and their knowledge of history, where religious zealotry had been used as a basis for power and also for terrible abuses of that power, all in the name of some GOD. And of course their god was inviolate which gave then carte blanche to do whatever they wanted, because they were following the will of their god. These were key factors that helped shape the American concept of religious freedom; that no government shall establish an official religion and make all people in their society worship that religion and pay for it as well. And so Americans contributed this enlightened concept, along with the idea that in our country you can worship any religion you want, but with that liberty comes the creed that you will extend that same right to all individuals to worship the way they want to or perhaps not to worship any god at all.
The current crop of religious zealots running for President, who hold their Christian Bible in one hand and the US Constitution in the other, show that religion continues to cut both ways in our electoral process. And for the most part that is not good.
Kudos to the founding fathers for understanding through their own experiences in the 1700's and their knowledge of history, where religious zealotry had been used as a basis for power and also for terrible abuses of that power, all in the name of some GOD. And of course their god was inviolate which gave then carte blanche to do whatever they wanted, because they were following the will of their god. These were key factors that helped shape the American concept of religious freedom; that no government shall establish an official religion and make all people in their society worship that religion and pay for it as well. And so Americans contributed this enlightened concept, along with the idea that in our country you can worship any religion you want, but with that liberty comes the creed that you will extend that same right to all individuals to worship the way they want to or perhaps not to worship any god at all.
23
If only they practiced their faith by being humble, giving to charity, working in Congress or the private sector to help those less fortunate I would possibly believe their drivel. Most of the Repubs just come across as mean-spirited power grabbers with not a care at all for others aside from their financial supporters. If there is a higher power, let them surely be judged by that entity in due time.
38
Despite attacking each other continuously, the GOP presidential Pharisees certainly seem to agree on one thing- women are at the root of all evil and by being responsible for "the Original Sin" need to be punished accordingly, at every legislative opportunity.
33
Susan, it is not so simple. Recently my daughter adopted a baby girl from India and writing about this a Muslim woman wrote:
"Good evening sir
It's a very big thing you did for that girl , i always use to hear that God sends angels to help people in need
Today I have seen it
Hats off to you sir "
She is Muslim and knows we are not. But her use of the word "God" is a neutral one, not tied to any particular faith.
Should I write back to her and say, "I am sorry but there is no God"?
"Good evening sir
It's a very big thing you did for that girl , i always use to hear that God sends angels to help people in need
Today I have seen it
Hats off to you sir "
She is Muslim and knows we are not. But her use of the word "God" is a neutral one, not tied to any particular faith.
Should I write back to her and say, "I am sorry but there is no God"?
1
Evangelicals predicate their faith on Sin and Redemption. America in their view is now Sodom and Gomorrah. Trump -- three wives, gambling magnate, citizen of Sodom, heathen -- is the embodiment of sin. But the worst sinner makes for the greatest redemption. Trump is born again in the eyes of Evangelicals who feel rapture in his plain spoken sermon of fire and brimstone. His words give shape, size and color to the disgust and loathing Evangelicals feel in their Christian hearts for the ungodly who propagate sin and denigrate their god.
The rising chorus of dismay and disbelief from heathens is just the growing fear of the avenging angel and his flaming sword. The final proof that Trump arrives as their avenger is his vast wealth, a sure sign from god that Trump has a luxury suite reserved in god's NFL stadium, restricted access pre-ordained VIP section. Did I mention that only Trump is blond and blue-eyed as surely god is? And as surely as Mephisto crouched in the White House isn't?
When Trump comes to smite the serpent and all that slithers, who needs policies, ideas, experience or a resume? Anger, angry words, and a flaming sword suffice. Trump has his deal. But his soul wasn't worth much and unlike Faustus he wasn't granted magical powers. Just a meaningless primary win he was expected to win.
What profits a man who sells his soul? A bigger brand, billions more in global licensing fees, another book deal, another prime time TV showcase.
The rising chorus of dismay and disbelief from heathens is just the growing fear of the avenging angel and his flaming sword. The final proof that Trump arrives as their avenger is his vast wealth, a sure sign from god that Trump has a luxury suite reserved in god's NFL stadium, restricted access pre-ordained VIP section. Did I mention that only Trump is blond and blue-eyed as surely god is? And as surely as Mephisto crouched in the White House isn't?
When Trump comes to smite the serpent and all that slithers, who needs policies, ideas, experience or a resume? Anger, angry words, and a flaming sword suffice. Trump has his deal. But his soul wasn't worth much and unlike Faustus he wasn't granted magical powers. Just a meaningless primary win he was expected to win.
What profits a man who sells his soul? A bigger brand, billions more in global licensing fees, another book deal, another prime time TV showcase.
22
Christians predicate their faith on sin and redemption. The Khmer Rouge were better theologians than they knew when they marked for death anyone believing in sin or salvation.
What Christians do with that belief in sin and redemption is another matter.
What Christians do with that belief in sin and redemption is another matter.
Amen.
1
"Evangelicals predicate their faith on Sin and Redemption. America in their view is now Sodom and Gomorrah. Trump -- three wives, gambling magnate, citizen of Sodom,..." What evangenitals ignore is that the last victim in the story of Sodom & Gomorrah is a woman, Lot's wife. She defies her husband by turning to look at the burning city and Zap! she gets punished for disobeying men and their macho values, made plain to all by being turned into a pillar of salt -- a large phallic symbol. I hope all women voters remember this.
J
J
1
Right on. People are being persuaded to vote for the bat in one candidate's belfry while denying the bat in his opponent's.Forget the bats and the sanctimonious pronouncements. Choose somebody compassionate, inclusive, practical and war averse. The chances are that her or she, in such a case, would be a secular humanist.
24
Well at least Matco Rubio admits he's not a savior. :)
But seriously, it is interesting how these "devout Christians" ( Republican politicians) had no problems even trying to take food stamps and unemployment benefits away from the unemployed during the depths of the recession. Pretty basic stuff to be taking away.
After all, even Jesus created fish and bread for all.
These guys here on our soil, trying to claw themseves into office and prestige are just manipulative, self serving, hypocrites. They turn religion into something less than. Iowans must be smarter than that.
But seriously, it is interesting how these "devout Christians" ( Republican politicians) had no problems even trying to take food stamps and unemployment benefits away from the unemployed during the depths of the recession. Pretty basic stuff to be taking away.
After all, even Jesus created fish and bread for all.
These guys here on our soil, trying to claw themseves into office and prestige are just manipulative, self serving, hypocrites. They turn religion into something less than. Iowans must be smarter than that.
34
It says in the bible that "the poor are always with us." These candidates just want to make sure that this prophesy is true.
2
Make that Marco.
The Treaty of Tripoli, ratified by all present U.S. Senators in 1797, and signed by founder and President John Adams, says in Article 11, "...the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." To be fair, there was some controversy surrounding this article and I refer the reader to the Wikipedia entry that offers a good summary. What's crucial for this discussion, I believe, is that the article is in the version read aloud to the Senate, printed for each member, and promulgated in official U.S. Government publications.
In short, how much clearer can you get about the essentially and intentionally secular nature of the United States government? I was both dumbfounded and overjoyed to find this document with the fingerprints of our august founders all over it. Does it form a basis for pleading with our religious brothers and sisters to keep their religion to themselves? Sadly not; the mandate to spread their faith is, unfortunately, in their various and sundry Magic Books. It IS fair, nonetheless, to ask--even demand--that the religious among us start coming to terms better with the primacy of the secular in our government.
In short, how much clearer can you get about the essentially and intentionally secular nature of the United States government? I was both dumbfounded and overjoyed to find this document with the fingerprints of our august founders all over it. Does it form a basis for pleading with our religious brothers and sisters to keep their religion to themselves? Sadly not; the mandate to spread their faith is, unfortunately, in their various and sundry Magic Books. It IS fair, nonetheless, to ask--even demand--that the religious among us start coming to terms better with the primacy of the secular in our government.
19
How is it possible that some people running for political office do not understand basic American history, including "No religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification of any Office or public Trust under the United States," or "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" when such concepts are at the heart of our Constitution and enshrined by a long history of legal precedence?
I don't care what religious beliefs anyone has, all I care about is how they treat the rest of the human race.
Trump, Cruz (and others) exhibit no sense of empathy at all. Their "faith" seems limited to personal victory, not how they can serve the rest of us.
I don't care what religious beliefs anyone has, all I care about is how they treat the rest of the human race.
Trump, Cruz (and others) exhibit no sense of empathy at all. Their "faith" seems limited to personal victory, not how they can serve the rest of us.
61
Amen.
1
Their so-called faith consists of crass personal opportunism, narcissistic brand-invention,
bucket lists of lies, rabid hucksterism and perpetual tricksterism. Pathetic, the whole lot of these political scoundrels isn't out of town.
bucket lists of lies, rabid hucksterism and perpetual tricksterism. Pathetic, the whole lot of these political scoundrels isn't out of town.
The surprise showing by Bernie Sanders shows that American voters recognize that most politicians are not what they proclaim to be and welcome an honest position on faith.
What bothers me more than their phony religiousness, but their phony position on taxes and reliance on big government.
The latest phony is Gov. Snyder, who was elected oh his anti tax and government in Washington. But as many before, as soon as he has a major problem, he calls on the federal government for help. Even to solve a problem he created.
My father, a poor steelworker, taught us that we have a responsibility to pay our taxes and support our church, without complaining or bragging about our responsibility. Apparently this lesson was not learned by the rich and famous.
What bothers me more than their phony religiousness, but their phony position on taxes and reliance on big government.
The latest phony is Gov. Snyder, who was elected oh his anti tax and government in Washington. But as many before, as soon as he has a major problem, he calls on the federal government for help. Even to solve a problem he created.
My father, a poor steelworker, taught us that we have a responsibility to pay our taxes and support our church, without complaining or bragging about our responsibility. Apparently this lesson was not learned by the rich and famous.
35
Tom, Trump certainly was not taught responsibility to pay our taxes..."He Didn’t Pay Retail
November 1986
Trump is named a sales-tax dodger.
Although Trump likes to show off his lavish expenses — he put gold-plated faucets in the bathrooms of his Trump Air planes — the documentary record is replete with evidence that he is a secret miser. For instance: The state attorney general named him in an investigation into a Manhattan jewelry store, saying he had avoided sales taxes on $65,000 worth of merchandise by having it sent to Cohn’s house in Connecticut. (Only the store was charged, not Trump.) John O’Donnell, a former executive at his casino company, wrote in his memoir, Trumped!, that his boss would often raid his gift shops for snacks, scoop up handfuls of chocolate candy and stuff them in his pockets to eat later."
Someone kept track, thank goodness, here's the time line http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/01/donald-trump-timeline.html
November 1986
Trump is named a sales-tax dodger.
Although Trump likes to show off his lavish expenses — he put gold-plated faucets in the bathrooms of his Trump Air planes — the documentary record is replete with evidence that he is a secret miser. For instance: The state attorney general named him in an investigation into a Manhattan jewelry store, saying he had avoided sales taxes on $65,000 worth of merchandise by having it sent to Cohn’s house in Connecticut. (Only the store was charged, not Trump.) John O’Donnell, a former executive at his casino company, wrote in his memoir, Trumped!, that his boss would often raid his gift shops for snacks, scoop up handfuls of chocolate candy and stuff them in his pockets to eat later."
Someone kept track, thank goodness, here's the time line http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/01/donald-trump-timeline.html
2
Sometimes I am really glad I live in New Hampshire, one of the least religious states in the Union. Our campaign ads are pretty bad, but the ones in Iowa must be worse.
35
Please, Republican voters. Spare the world from depending on the little voices that your current crop of presidential nominee candidates claim to be hearing in their heads. Not only do no such voices exist (outside of mental wards), the claims of "belief" are scams. Politicians know what to say to fool the lowest common denominator voter. That's the truth of the matter. In the complicated 21st Century, the globe cannot afford America to be led by such liars.
57
"Religion was integral to our country's founding." While I appreciate the sentiment of your article, I find it galling how often this truism goes unchallenged. How exactly did Judeo-Christian values contribute to the founding of this country? The Constitution was based on Enlightenment philosophy and its primary author, James Madison, was a deist. Church attendance was lower at our country's founding than it is today. Even more off-base is the statement "It's (religion) central to our understanding of the liberty that each of us deserves." Do atheists not understand the liberty that each of us deserves? That statement is akin to saying that an understanding of morality can only come from religion. Religion certainly wasn't central to the Founding Fathers' understanding of our liberties. The Constitution, which expounds on several rather important liberties, starts off with this: "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." It seems that our liberties come from we the people. The document makes no mention whatsoever of God. It certainly never makes the assertion that our liberties come from religion. Evangelical voters don't even have enough facts on their side to deserve the bone you threw them.
98
Many original settlers to the US were seeking religious freedom, including Quakers and Mennonites in PA, Congregationalists in RI, Catholics in MD, Pilgrims in MA, etc. I do not participate in organized religion but our 13 colonies were no doubt originally settled with whites when a lot of people in Europe came here seeking to practice their faiths.
Which is why I find the founders' belief in separation of church and state even more inspiring: practice your faith but leave it in the houses of worship.
Which is why I find the founders' belief in separation of church and state even more inspiring: practice your faith but leave it in the houses of worship.
3
You sir are spot on. many of the founders were deists and more likely agnostic or atheists however at the time to claim so was illegal. Many of their later writings objected to religion and waxed on the need for men to heed the voice of reason.
1
Well said!
Article VI of the US Constitution commands that no religious test can be required of any federal officeholder or employee. It is odd, to say the least, that contemporary US conservatives, who claim to worship the nation's founders and their wisdom expressed in our founding documents, nonetheless insist upon imposing a de facto requirement of religious affiliation. More specifically, the contemporary electorate demands repeated public affirmation of Christian faith. A recent Pew survey found that, of all the negative traits that would preclude voter support, 51 percent chose atheism as a deal breaker, more even than Muslim faith, or adultery.
I wonder why contemporary voters are so ready to reject the wisdom of our founding fathers in this respect. Why would we not be more hesitant to set aside their advice? Do we believe that Jefferson, Madison, Hamilton, et al didn't think this through, or do we believe that we moderns have greater faculties to perceive the good of the nation? We have here either ignorance or hubris on a cosmic scale.
I wonder why contemporary voters are so ready to reject the wisdom of our founding fathers in this respect. Why would we not be more hesitant to set aside their advice? Do we believe that Jefferson, Madison, Hamilton, et al didn't think this through, or do we believe that we moderns have greater faculties to perceive the good of the nation? We have here either ignorance or hubris on a cosmic scale.
50
Frank, I don't know what you mean by "religion was integral to our country's founding." Yes, Puritans came here to be able to practice their religion. But the establishment of a religion was rather quickly dropped. Although Pennsylvania was one of the last colonies to be settled, it grew very quickly with the influx of European immigrants seeking William Penn's religious freedom. Virginia's statute of religious freedom pre-dated the Constitution. Inserting a wall, so to speak, between church and state was considered a very important part of the Bill of Rights. Jefferson, Washington, Adams, Madison, Hamilton were not particularly religious. The modern GOP. the Evangelicals, and the Catholics (yes, the Catholic Church and its continued fight against women's medical care), on the other hand, all want all of us to follow their particular brand of beliefs -- really, a completely un-American concept. Which, very unfortunately, seems to be becoming an American concept. Jefferson, Madison, William Penn, et al, are certainly turning over in their graves.
75
In listening to the NPR story on Friday where Iowan Republicans at theRepublican caucus were interviewed as to who they support. The responses of these people remind me of Lewis Carroll's 'Through The Looking Glass', where the Red Queen proudly proclaims "I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast" without ever realizing the degree of ignorance, naivety, and gullibility required of such a feat. What's a Republican candidate to do in order to gain their votes if not to pander to such a poorly educated bunch of rubes? These people seriously thought that to elect a democratic president automatically meant their guns were going to be taken from them. No question about it.
47
It's the White Queen (Through the Looking-Glass, ch. 5). The White Queen was slovenly and scatterbrained; the Red queen was a martinet.
I heard that, and the other element that resonated was the feeling "We are not safe". Those interviews were disturbing.
1
This is a problem for our country in Congress. These backward States with small populations have way too much power! Think of Inohofe of Oklahoma bringing a snowball to refute climate change! Okiowa should share 1 seat in Congress.
I know that some of my fellow Jews are planning to vote for Bernie strictly on the basis of his religion. In fact the Senator, a non-observant Jew, never discusses his religious convictions (if any) and rarely even mentions his feelings about Israel and/or its right-wing government. All of which is perfectly fine by me. Better by far to have a President who's a mensch- with or without any particular religious credentials- than one who wraps himself in the pages of the Torah (or some other sacred text), preaches the wages of sin and assumes God is on his side as opposed to the reverse.
120
I'm a Conservative Jew but I'm not voting for Bernie because he's Jewish. I'm voting for him because I've watched him in Congress for over 25 years and I've been impressed by him. Even though I don't agree with ever position he takes, at least I know with him what I'm getting and that he is a mensch.
As a note, I didn't support Lieberman for President even though he's Jewish. In fact, as a Jew, I expect more from Bernie than I do from all the Christians running for president.
Based on what he says and does, I find Bernie a far more authentic Jew than people like (supposedly Orthodox) Eric Cantor (for those who don't know, Judaism prizes action as opposed to belief).
As a note, I didn't support Lieberman for President even though he's Jewish. In fact, as a Jew, I expect more from Bernie than I do from all the Christians running for president.
Based on what he says and does, I find Bernie a far more authentic Jew than people like (supposedly Orthodox) Eric Cantor (for those who don't know, Judaism prizes action as opposed to belief).
3
The stanglehold that evangelicals have had on the Republican party for the last 30 years is weakening. Trump is proof positve of that. Especially, among millienials, Christian orthodoxy and big talk about personal devoutness rings pretty hollow. They want to see you live it. And of course people like Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, Huckabee do not walk the walk. They are in it for the power and the money.
While Americans do support and should support spirituality, the removal of religion from the public sphere will be a boon. Relgiion should informa our decisions and guide us, but we make decisions about Middle East Policy, for example, based on some text in Revelations. Nor can we respond to challenges like climate change by explaining it away as "God would never let that happen..."
We are seeing an evolution of the poltical discourse in this country away from Religion. I can see why Ted Cruz is so befuddled. He will out-Jesus Trump but in the end it doesn't look it will be enough.
While Americans do support and should support spirituality, the removal of religion from the public sphere will be a boon. Relgiion should informa our decisions and guide us, but we make decisions about Middle East Policy, for example, based on some text in Revelations. Nor can we respond to challenges like climate change by explaining it away as "God would never let that happen..."
We are seeing an evolution of the poltical discourse in this country away from Religion. I can see why Ted Cruz is so befuddled. He will out-Jesus Trump but in the end it doesn't look it will be enough.
14
What does god--any god--have to do with politics? Didn't we go through that when JFK proclaimed that he was an American and a Catholic; but, one doesn't necessarily follow the other. He makes his own decisions--not Rome.
So, other than the political posturing, which is completely asinine, god has no role whatsoever in American politics. Maybe in Iran's or Saudi Arabia's, but not in ours! Is that what we want?
Consider three brave American servicemen--of different faiths, or perhaps none--were willing to fight and die for America. Whose god would they follow orders from? That would be a ridiculous situation--taking orders given by one officer (of their faith, or lack thereof), but not another. Thus, the whole nonsense of god--indirectly as Commander-in-Chief--would require that we become a theocracy.
Is that what we want. A President who cares more about his or her god, than strong economic policies, health care, a strong national security or safe cities?
And what if the President had no religion at all--and we have had some, called Deists--would that mean that such people should not apply?
http://thetruthoncommonsense.com
So, other than the political posturing, which is completely asinine, god has no role whatsoever in American politics. Maybe in Iran's or Saudi Arabia's, but not in ours! Is that what we want?
Consider three brave American servicemen--of different faiths, or perhaps none--were willing to fight and die for America. Whose god would they follow orders from? That would be a ridiculous situation--taking orders given by one officer (of their faith, or lack thereof), but not another. Thus, the whole nonsense of god--indirectly as Commander-in-Chief--would require that we become a theocracy.
Is that what we want. A President who cares more about his or her god, than strong economic policies, health care, a strong national security or safe cities?
And what if the President had no religion at all--and we have had some, called Deists--would that mean that such people should not apply?
http://thetruthoncommonsense.com
24
JFK also said that if he ever got into an irresolvable conflict between the teachings of the Church and his duties as president, he would resign from the presidency.
10
JFK's many affairs were not required of him by religion. Would you say that they were required by his duties as president?
It was JFK who almost led us into nuclear war with the USSR. And his attempt to overthrow Castro's regime was right in line with America's tendency to decide what governments other countries shall have.
Ditto LBJ in Vietnam and Obama in Libya and Syria.
Many readers wisely avoid becoming misty eyed about the Republicans. But it would be good to apply some realism also to Democrats.
It was JFK who almost led us into nuclear war with the USSR. And his attempt to overthrow Castro's regime was right in line with America's tendency to decide what governments other countries shall have.
Ditto LBJ in Vietnam and Obama in Libya and Syria.
Many readers wisely avoid becoming misty eyed about the Republicans. But it would be good to apply some realism also to Democrats.
1
Men, and some women, have had affairs throughout history, both within government and outside it. No country is unique; but, in America, some people just make too much of it. Even various clergy, of different religions, have indulged. What bearing does that have on the Economy, National Security., etc? Self-righteousness goes by many guises.
How did JFK cause the "Missiles of October" confrontation with the Soviets? Air Force Chief of Staff, Gen. Curtis LeMay wanted to bomb the USSR. Kennedy overruled him and prevented Nuclear Armageddon.
Vietnam began back in the Eisenhower Administration, with Special Forces sent to RVN. Every President through Nixon continued the War, lest the U. S. back down to a much smaller ally of the Soviet Union. Johnson had his Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, Nixon his incursion into Laos and, hey, let’s not forget Bush 43’s Weapons of Mass Destruction! The No-Fly Zone over Libya was at a UN request and Syria is part of the aftermath of Bush toppling Saddam, something Bush 41 knew not to do. It gave birth to ISIS.
How did JFK cause the "Missiles of October" confrontation with the Soviets? Air Force Chief of Staff, Gen. Curtis LeMay wanted to bomb the USSR. Kennedy overruled him and prevented Nuclear Armageddon.
Vietnam began back in the Eisenhower Administration, with Special Forces sent to RVN. Every President through Nixon continued the War, lest the U. S. back down to a much smaller ally of the Soviet Union. Johnson had his Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, Nixon his incursion into Laos and, hey, let’s not forget Bush 43’s Weapons of Mass Destruction! The No-Fly Zone over Libya was at a UN request and Syria is part of the aftermath of Bush toppling Saddam, something Bush 41 knew not to do. It gave birth to ISIS.
1
The U.S. is fortunate to have recognized, early on, the lack of tolerance of religion (any and all of them) in everyday affairs, hence, developed a constitution that is secular; and while there is freedom to practice any faith, or none, unrestricted, government must be free of any one religion so to protect all people equally. Although we do not understand yet the intricate functioning of our brain, we ought not to sell it short, as it 'knows' good from bad, and altruism, mercy, sacrifice are truly human and in no need to assign divinity to its function. The politician's push for religion in their zeal to convert folks to their way of thinking is an abuse of power...and ought to be discouraged. Our democracy requires a sense of decency, of inclusion, as a plurality of our diversity requires. That way, there may be more of a chance of equality in the opportunity to participate, and to elect a truly representative individual to high office. For that to occur, demagogues need not apply.
10
I think there is more to this story. According to Lifeway's own poll of pastors, (an evangelical organization if ever there was one)-- only 4 percent of pastors favor Trump, 17 percent Cruz, demonstrating a wide gap between them and their parishioners. Maybe we don't really understand how religion works in the political world http://www.christianpost.com/news/4-percent-pastors-trump-president-life...
9
The tv show "The Beverly Hillbillies" was originally conceived by the producers as a show that would have people laughing at bumpkins who moved to the hipster center of civilization. Within a few episodes to their credit they figured out that the audience was instead laughing at the people who thought the hillbillies were stupid, adjusted the writing accordingly and the show ran for 11 seasons.
This is a nation of Homer Simpson hillbilly thinkers, not educated intellectuals, rationalists or what have you. You can't understand what is currently going on in (especially Republican) politics without understanding that and adjusting your thinking accordingly. For ultimate proof I give you Bush v. Gore, which should have been a Gore landslide.
As for a Sanders candidacy, please research the 1952 race between Adlai Stevenson and the bumpkin Eisenhower, who wasn't even a good general but whose role in WWII was to keep the Allied coalition together which he did by continually caving in to the disastrously incompetent British general Montgomery. Stevenson was brought down by charges of being an "intellectual", which at that time was a code word for all sorts of things, including liberal, communist and homosexual. Were Sanders to get the nomination, the "socialist" moniker would be enough to destroy him.
This is a nation of Homer Simpson hillbilly thinkers, not educated intellectuals, rationalists or what have you. You can't understand what is currently going on in (especially Republican) politics without understanding that and adjusting your thinking accordingly. For ultimate proof I give you Bush v. Gore, which should have been a Gore landslide.
As for a Sanders candidacy, please research the 1952 race between Adlai Stevenson and the bumpkin Eisenhower, who wasn't even a good general but whose role in WWII was to keep the Allied coalition together which he did by continually caving in to the disastrously incompetent British general Montgomery. Stevenson was brought down by charges of being an "intellectual", which at that time was a code word for all sorts of things, including liberal, communist and homosexual. Were Sanders to get the nomination, the "socialist" moniker would be enough to destroy him.
27
I agree about Eisenhower but feel you are too tough on Montgomery. Monty was loved by his men because he did not senselessly send them to slaughter. Yes, he appears to have had an annoying personality, but his generalship was no worse than any allied general except perhaps Ridgeway and Patton (the only general thought worthy by Werhmacht generals, these, inarguably the finest soldiers since Rome).
slangpdx:
Richard Hofstadter did just that - he researched the 1952 presidential race as part of the research for his great book "Anti-Intellectualism in American Life," and however much anti-intellectualism he uncovered since colonial times, the 1952 race was NOT a referendum on intellectuality. Many Americans said they would have voted for Stevenson had he run against anyone but Eisenhower.
Richard Hofstadter did just that - he researched the 1952 presidential race as part of the research for his great book "Anti-Intellectualism in American Life," and however much anti-intellectualism he uncovered since colonial times, the 1952 race was NOT a referendum on intellectuality. Many Americans said they would have voted for Stevenson had he run against anyone but Eisenhower.
1
Beverly Hills was in no way "hipster" at the time.
The evangelicals believe that the earth was created roughly 5000 years ago and that man and dinosaur coexisted. And we let a state where they're a sizable chunk of the population go first in the presidential sweepstakes. Ludicrous, but any more, so is politics and statesmanship in the USA.
People like Cruz and Trump are carnival barkers, not presidential timber.
People like Cruz and Trump are carnival barkers, not presidential timber.
36
I am sorry but I wasn't able to keep them out or to legitimately disenfranchise them. I suggested all kinds of really crackpot solutions-a return to the British Empire or surrendering to Japan and allowing them to run the country. But , it seems even our former worst enemies,(now bestest best friends), no longer are interested in the kind of hegemony or empire they were once so enamored of. Mostly, all our former foes tell us that we should count our blessings and that America was the luckiest nation in the world to be both equidistant from too much of Europe and Asia and, to have had the best leaders and legislators for a time from FDR until Gen. Eisenhower. We ought to get another leader like Mr Roosevelt,(Either one of them), and we'd do fine.
Sorry, but God refused to put his oar in this one.
Sorry, but God refused to put his oar in this one.
8
I agree that it's stupid for Iowa to always go first. The primary/caucus calendar should be set each election cycle by lottery. Imagine, candidates might even have to "tack" left if the first primary state were New York.
"The evangelicals"? IOW, all evangelicals? There's plenty of evidence on the Web that evangelicals are deeply divided over Trump; here are two links, one of them to a Times article:
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/09/17/opinion/have-evangelicals-who-suppo...
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2016/january-web-only/why-donald-tru...
Where's your evidence that all evangelicals think alike on electoral politics?
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/09/17/opinion/have-evangelicals-who-suppo...
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2016/january-web-only/why-donald-tru...
Where's your evidence that all evangelicals think alike on electoral politics?
Matthew 7:15-16 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's
clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits.
Christians may guide their vote by their beliefs, but they are warned to judge with care. Candidates who doth protest too much their faith may be mistaken or just false. Each of us, of any faith or none, must consider whether the candidate will act according to our moral imperatives and judge them not by what they say but rather by how we think they will act: policy not profession of piety.
clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits.
Christians may guide their vote by their beliefs, but they are warned to judge with care. Candidates who doth protest too much their faith may be mistaken or just false. Each of us, of any faith or none, must consider whether the candidate will act according to our moral imperatives and judge them not by what they say but rather by how we think they will act: policy not profession of piety.
19
We are going to vote fora president, not a cleric-in-chief. The endless sanctimony is more than annoying, it demonstrates that these people are either shameless manipulators and panderers or if they believe their own nonsense then it demonstrates that they have serious problems in distinguishing what is real and what is make believe.
40
Anyone can say anything. Anyone can profess any kind of belief. But there are many religious people in this world who gauge piety not just in what a person says, but what a person does.
The slingers of religious veracity in this campaign have never really accomplished implementing much of the conservative agenda, especially anything regarding the religious/political beliefs that many evangelicals hold. Trump, however comes across as a doer. He is not much for playing the believer role, but sells that he can actually get things done.
Therein lies his support. The evangelicals flock to him as some kind of doer/savior that will rescue the nation from folks me and most most readers of this paper. The others are mostly hot air that say anything they need to depending on the situation to get votes. The evangelicals are willing to overlook Trump's transgressions in order to get such a doer in the White House. They think he will do what they want. That remains to be seen. Let's hope we never see it.
The slingers of religious veracity in this campaign have never really accomplished implementing much of the conservative agenda, especially anything regarding the religious/political beliefs that many evangelicals hold. Trump, however comes across as a doer. He is not much for playing the believer role, but sells that he can actually get things done.
Therein lies his support. The evangelicals flock to him as some kind of doer/savior that will rescue the nation from folks me and most most readers of this paper. The others are mostly hot air that say anything they need to depending on the situation to get votes. The evangelicals are willing to overlook Trump's transgressions in order to get such a doer in the White House. They think he will do what they want. That remains to be seen. Let's hope we never see it.
35
What Trump, "the doer" actually does, is work the crowd and manipulate the crowd. He fans fires of hatred. He insults. And he plays the victim, as he did by not participating in the last debate. But, aside from the "entertainment" what else has he actually accomplished? He's profoundly ignorant of just about all facts and President needs, and if he leads - it will be in the wrong direction. So much for the judgment of the Evangelicals.
2
He won't do squat for them. He's not a believer.
3
You miss the fact that evangelical Christians - even those who reliably vote Republican - are deeply divided over Trump.
I don't want to know candidates' religious beliefs. I find it offensive when their plans for running the country are guided by their religion. I believe the Constitution is the plan.
Why are we subjected to the Iowa caucuses every 4 years? The state is overwhelmingly white and seemingly very religious. It's representative of rural white states, maybe, but it seems there must be a better way to do this.
Why are we subjected to the Iowa caucuses every 4 years? The state is overwhelmingly white and seemingly very religious. It's representative of rural white states, maybe, but it seems there must be a better way to do this.
51
While the GOP goes through this Iowa religious oneupmanship every four years, that is not the whole state. That is not even the whole GOP in the state, just the people willing to go out in the cold on a (both parties: how ridiculous can you get) Monday night to express their opinions and try to persuade their fellow polar bear club members (and I like that very democratic part of the process) to join them in this or that corner of the hall and be counted. Iowa as a whole state voted for Obama twice, Bush, Gore, Clinton twice and Dukakis in the last seven general elections. It's a nice state with nice people. I don't know if there are a lot of hicks, but my impression of young Iowans who crossed the border with Missouri to study at a university I taught at were, if hicks, hicks with open minds. To me, that disqualifies them for hickdom. Let's not belittle all its voters. Candidates' stated religious beliefs shouldn't determine who is a good candidate. Many Iowans, I suspect, would agree. They are much more impressed by people who act on the morality they have grown up with than simply tell us about how moral they are, but there we are again with most Republican candidates: I assert it, it must be true because I am a good person. Donald Trump or Joe Schmoe asserts it and it must be false because they are not me, and hence bad. Less asserting and less arrogance would be welcome from the Republicans on every issue with more proof that their way benefits all Americans instead.
4
Iowa isn't "very religious", just a large slice of the caucus-going Republicans.
Here's the date on Iowa as a whole, from Wiki: "52% of Iowans are Protestant, while 23% are Catholic, and other religions made up 6%. 13% are non-religious, and 5% did not answer. The largest Protestant denominations were the United Methodist Church with 235,190 adherents and the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America with 229,557.
Here's the date on Iowa as a whole, from Wiki: "52% of Iowans are Protestant, while 23% are Catholic, and other religions made up 6%. 13% are non-religious, and 5% did not answer. The largest Protestant denominations were the United Methodist Church with 235,190 adherents and the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America with 229,557.
4
Evangelical support for Trump surprises many observers because his abusive manner and thinly-veiled indifference to religion seem odd attractions for a Christian political movement. However improbable, this alliance reflects choices made in the 1980s, during the heyday of Jerry Falwell.
Falwell and his allies sought to reverse the secularization of American society by enlisting government in a campaign to restore their version of Christian values. But their anointed champion, Ronald Reagan, a divorced man whose enthusiasm for religion seemed of recent origin, limited his endorsement of their agenda to meaningless oral promises. His real platform dismissed the poor as welfare queens and promised an aggressive foreign policy backed by a stronger military.
Falwell's determination to sanction proposed policies so alien to the teachings of Jesus betrayed the movement's conception of God as the stern, warlike deity of the Old Testament. But the depiction of Jehovah as a fiscal and social conservative, wrathful toward the poor and committed to lower taxes on the rich, could find no support even in that part of the Bible. The Christian right's philosophy of government had hijacked its theology.
Trump's abusive style obscures his similarity to Reagan. Commitment to lower taxes on the rich, fewer regulations, and an aggressive foreign policy mark him as an heir of the GOP hero. If evangelicals do vote for Trump, they will be following the path blazed by their parents.
Falwell and his allies sought to reverse the secularization of American society by enlisting government in a campaign to restore their version of Christian values. But their anointed champion, Ronald Reagan, a divorced man whose enthusiasm for religion seemed of recent origin, limited his endorsement of their agenda to meaningless oral promises. His real platform dismissed the poor as welfare queens and promised an aggressive foreign policy backed by a stronger military.
Falwell's determination to sanction proposed policies so alien to the teachings of Jesus betrayed the movement's conception of God as the stern, warlike deity of the Old Testament. But the depiction of Jehovah as a fiscal and social conservative, wrathful toward the poor and committed to lower taxes on the rich, could find no support even in that part of the Bible. The Christian right's philosophy of government had hijacked its theology.
Trump's abusive style obscures his similarity to Reagan. Commitment to lower taxes on the rich, fewer regulations, and an aggressive foreign policy mark him as an heir of the GOP hero. If evangelicals do vote for Trump, they will be following the path blazed by their parents.
25
I was educated in the scientific method. A proposal is known as a hypothesis. If a proposal can meet various standards of empirical evidence, is repeatable, and makes predictions that are verified, a hypothesis may be elevated to the status of theorem, which acknowledges that it is the best current explanation of what we experience and observe in nature.
Religion remains in the status of an an unverified hypothesis. If it is accepted, it is on faith, which is defined as belief without evidence.
Our more important founders were not sold on religion. History demonstrates that religion has a lot of blood on its hands. Acceptance of "one nation, under God", and "In God, we trust" were driven by politics, not evidence.
Public outpouring of unbounded faith strikes me as Pharisee behavior. I respect Jesus as a great philosopher, but I believe he would appalled at evangelical behavior. Religion and politics is not a good mix. I have no problem with homosexuals, same sex marriage, birth control or legal abortion. As blessed Pope Francis said, "Who am I to judge?"
Religion remains in the status of an an unverified hypothesis. If it is accepted, it is on faith, which is defined as belief without evidence.
Our more important founders were not sold on religion. History demonstrates that religion has a lot of blood on its hands. Acceptance of "one nation, under God", and "In God, we trust" were driven by politics, not evidence.
Public outpouring of unbounded faith strikes me as Pharisee behavior. I respect Jesus as a great philosopher, but I believe he would appalled at evangelical behavior. Religion and politics is not a good mix. I have no problem with homosexuals, same sex marriage, birth control or legal abortion. As blessed Pope Francis said, "Who am I to judge?"
67
I'm beginning to understand why 41% of the American electorate systematically vote against their own best interest. It's not because they're for Trump, Cruz or any of the other loony tunes bench-warmers. It's because they truly hate liberal true believers, deep-in-the-soul loathing of clueless know-it-alls who play king of the hill with their own kind and rules they make up as they go along.
A democracy isn't a football game between two teams with 150 million on each side. Trash talking and boasting how your rookie quarterback will win the game with hail marys isn't a winning strategy. Wearing a T-shirt emblazoned "I'm with stupid" is a shanked punt and why no one wants to sit next to you.
I'm beginning to really sympathize with evangelicals for Trump with every hallmark simpy card posted by another moonshot Bernie dilettante. Sanders really deserves fair consideration that's denied him because his boosters have become toxic (yep, rhymes with Quixotic) and sufficient justification to oppose his candidacy not just with empirical reasons but with passion.
The rabies epidemic that grips the Sanders fan base makes it hard to discern the political naifs from the Koch operatives working for his nomination and against Hillary. Not that Sanders' acolytes care. Just an EDM rave fueled by ecstasy and the bungee cord drop that's less about the future of America than a lost tribe improvising a false narrative.
A democracy isn't a football game between two teams with 150 million on each side. Trash talking and boasting how your rookie quarterback will win the game with hail marys isn't a winning strategy. Wearing a T-shirt emblazoned "I'm with stupid" is a shanked punt and why no one wants to sit next to you.
I'm beginning to really sympathize with evangelicals for Trump with every hallmark simpy card posted by another moonshot Bernie dilettante. Sanders really deserves fair consideration that's denied him because his boosters have become toxic (yep, rhymes with Quixotic) and sufficient justification to oppose his candidacy not just with empirical reasons but with passion.
The rabies epidemic that grips the Sanders fan base makes it hard to discern the political naifs from the Koch operatives working for his nomination and against Hillary. Not that Sanders' acolytes care. Just an EDM rave fueled by ecstasy and the bungee cord drop that's less about the future of America than a lost tribe improvising a false narrative.
10
Yuri Asian,
Do we sense jealousy in your diatribe against Sanders supporters?
Reads like your a Clinton backer. Yes?
Odd isn't it that she doesn't generate anywhere near the buzz and enthusiasm that Sanders backers proudly proclaim.
Hillary touts all the establishment, dower. money backed players. Period.
They are all busy looking at their stock portfolio and calculating how much a HC win might bring them. Even you middle of the road DINO's don't want to up end the cart. It's working for you. No enthusiasm. No sense of change. No grand Ideas to make the world better. Just a "don't screw up what I got".
I feel bad that you can't/don't feel the excitement. The chance in ones life to vote for someone that reflects our ideals. Not just a hold the nose vote. Someone that is fighting for those of us on the bottom. Those of us that are trying to make our time in this world.
I suggest you try not to denigrate us too much. If Sanders doesn't win you are going to need us to even have a chance. You might appreciate our enthusiasm when its time (dog forbid) to fall in line behind the pre-ordained future POTUS!
Do we sense jealousy in your diatribe against Sanders supporters?
Reads like your a Clinton backer. Yes?
Odd isn't it that she doesn't generate anywhere near the buzz and enthusiasm that Sanders backers proudly proclaim.
Hillary touts all the establishment, dower. money backed players. Period.
They are all busy looking at their stock portfolio and calculating how much a HC win might bring them. Even you middle of the road DINO's don't want to up end the cart. It's working for you. No enthusiasm. No sense of change. No grand Ideas to make the world better. Just a "don't screw up what I got".
I feel bad that you can't/don't feel the excitement. The chance in ones life to vote for someone that reflects our ideals. Not just a hold the nose vote. Someone that is fighting for those of us on the bottom. Those of us that are trying to make our time in this world.
I suggest you try not to denigrate us too much. If Sanders doesn't win you are going to need us to even have a chance. You might appreciate our enthusiasm when its time (dog forbid) to fall in line behind the pre-ordained future POTUS!
2
Huh?
Not a dilettante.
Not a dilettante.
1
"According to some national polls, more evangelicals back Trump than they do any other candidate." That is because the evangelicals who involve themselves in politics aren't very Christian. As Howard Dean said, they are the Sadducees and Pharisees of our day.
70
"According to some national polls, more evangelicals back Trump than they do any other candidate."
Thatvs a bad sign, but the field is crowded so I'd still like to know: do more evangelicals support Trump than all the other candidates COMBINED, including "Unsure"?
Thatvs a bad sign, but the field is crowded so I'd still like to know: do more evangelicals support Trump than all the other candidates COMBINED, including "Unsure"?
"Religion was integral to our country's founding". It was these very types of people, the "born again" Republicans running in this election, the forefathers (who were mostly Deist) were trying to protect us from.
It is clear from the Republican candidates that they would not be a President of all the people, just the Christians. It is only one of many reasons that I would be beyond uncomfortable should one of them (take your pick) should win the Presidency. As for their brand of Christianity, Jesus would not recognize it as anything he ever encouraged.
He was all about healing the sick, lifting people out of poverty, and turning the other cheek. In short, Christ was a liberal. I don't think shredding the social safety nets, eschewing the poor, and carpet bombing quite fits with what Christ had in mind.
The quote that keeps coming to my mind (mostly attributed to Sinclair Lewis) is: "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag carrying a cross". I want a bumper sticker that states just that, I believe they are available on the web somewhere.
It is clear from the Republican candidates that they would not be a President of all the people, just the Christians. It is only one of many reasons that I would be beyond uncomfortable should one of them (take your pick) should win the Presidency. As for their brand of Christianity, Jesus would not recognize it as anything he ever encouraged.
He was all about healing the sick, lifting people out of poverty, and turning the other cheek. In short, Christ was a liberal. I don't think shredding the social safety nets, eschewing the poor, and carpet bombing quite fits with what Christ had in mind.
The quote that keeps coming to my mind (mostly attributed to Sinclair Lewis) is: "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag carrying a cross". I want a bumper sticker that states just that, I believe they are available on the web somewhere.
156
Diana,
Isn't that the truth! Nicely written.
Funny how they have a once in a life time chance to vote for a Jewish Socialist that espouses all the thing their messiah preached. Yet they throw dispersions and stones instead.
Truly the Pharisees will have their reward here instead of there.
Isn't that the truth! Nicely written.
Funny how they have a once in a life time chance to vote for a Jewish Socialist that espouses all the thing their messiah preached. Yet they throw dispersions and stones instead.
Truly the Pharisees will have their reward here instead of there.
2
When I hear Ted Cruz, I think, "He isn't running for President of the United States. He is running for Preacher of the United States."
Well, Mr. Cruz, I am a Christian, but you don't speak for me. And, frankly, I resent your desire to cram your beliefs down my throat. Your beliefs are as far away from Christ as I can imagine, especially concern for the neediest members of our society.
Well, Mr. Cruz, I am a Christian, but you don't speak for me. And, frankly, I resent your desire to cram your beliefs down my throat. Your beliefs are as far away from Christ as I can imagine, especially concern for the neediest members of our society.
313
If only reporters and debate moderators would quiet every candidate who refers to religion--especially a specific faith or denomination--by reminding each candidate that "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States."
So, candidates should speak freely but know that they are undermining the oh-so-sacred Constitution whenever they aim to bring religion into the conversation...in the least, it's perhaps the cheapest form of pandering.
On a related note, if we were to bring Corinthians into any such conversation (per your final jab, Frank), it would have to be 1st Corinthians 13, esp. verses 4 - 7; however, the ideals within these verses would never find use or purpose amongst any but the least of the preachers in the whole lot of candidates preening in Iowa, which should be, its own way, quite revealing...
So, candidates should speak freely but know that they are undermining the oh-so-sacred Constitution whenever they aim to bring religion into the conversation...in the least, it's perhaps the cheapest form of pandering.
On a related note, if we were to bring Corinthians into any such conversation (per your final jab, Frank), it would have to be 1st Corinthians 13, esp. verses 4 - 7; however, the ideals within these verses would never find use or purpose amongst any but the least of the preachers in the whole lot of candidates preening in Iowa, which should be, its own way, quite revealing...
24
I notice an absence of Matthew 25 and its dire warning about stiffing the poor. Nobody has mentioned that one. I wonder why. No, actually I don't.
3
We might expect surprises. You want us to expect miracles? Might be nice...
1
As a Canadian I lived in the US for over 45 years and my formal education is American. I now have been back in Canada a decade and have gone through a few elections here.
One of the most enjoyable differences in the process, is the complete I repeat, the complete lack of religion in the campaigns. None of the candidates at any level proclaimed their piety to a certain faith. None brought religion to the discussion and because of that, it was amazing how the campaign debates, speeches and rallies tried to focus on the real issues and problems that we face everyday.
We aren't perfect (Harper hired Republican consultants and it did get ugly near the end) but removing religion from the process makes it so much more enjoyable.
BTW Cruz couldn't be elected dogcatcher anywhere up here, but is Presidential material in the US.
One of the most enjoyable differences in the process, is the complete I repeat, the complete lack of religion in the campaigns. None of the candidates at any level proclaimed their piety to a certain faith. None brought religion to the discussion and because of that, it was amazing how the campaign debates, speeches and rallies tried to focus on the real issues and problems that we face everyday.
We aren't perfect (Harper hired Republican consultants and it did get ugly near the end) but removing religion from the process makes it so much more enjoyable.
BTW Cruz couldn't be elected dogcatcher anywhere up here, but is Presidential material in the US.
245
Heartening to know that right-wing evangelical nitwits can't get elected in Canada. If only they couldn't be born there...
22
I live pretty far north, and sometimes the only decent radio station we can get is the CBC. The Canadian election process does indeed vary from ours in many admirable ways, religion (or its lack) being just one. The duration of the campaign and the civility were quite remarkable this last time. I'd trade their conservatives for ours any day.
8
I envy you.
2
Rubio and Cruz claim to have a handle on gods plan.
They really should check with Pope Francis. Their supposed Christian values sound like polar opposites to his. This Pope tries his best to shine a light on the poorest among us. He has acknowledged climate change and asks us to consider ways to save this beautiful planet that we share with all living things. He embraces and acknowledges the different faiths of the world. He looks for peaceful solutions as opposed to carpet bombing innocents. The contrast is Extraordinary!
They really should check with Pope Francis. Their supposed Christian values sound like polar opposites to his. This Pope tries his best to shine a light on the poorest among us. He has acknowledged climate change and asks us to consider ways to save this beautiful planet that we share with all living things. He embraces and acknowledges the different faiths of the world. He looks for peaceful solutions as opposed to carpet bombing innocents. The contrast is Extraordinary!
123
It isn't just the religion. It is the complete lack of decent religious feeling while taking religion. They say the name of Jesus in ways that would make Jesus turn on them with that whip he used to clear the temple.
Lincoln talked about religion. In Lincoln's Second Inaugural Address he said it with humility and genuine care for others,
"those divine attributes which the believers in a Living God always ascribe to Him?
"Fondly do we hope--fervently do we pray--that this mighty scourge of war may speedily pass away.
"Yet, if God wills that it continue, until all the wealth piled by the bond-man's two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash, shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said three thousand years ago, so still it must be said "the judgments of the Lord, are true and righteous altogether"
"With malice toward none; with charity for all; with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in; to bind up the nation's wounds; to care for him who shall have borne the battle, and for his widow, and his orphan--to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace, among ourselves, and with all nations."
These God-bothering candidates would never say anything like that. That is my problem with their talk of religion. Lincoln talking from religion was just fine with me.
Lincoln talked about religion. In Lincoln's Second Inaugural Address he said it with humility and genuine care for others,
"those divine attributes which the believers in a Living God always ascribe to Him?
"Fondly do we hope--fervently do we pray--that this mighty scourge of war may speedily pass away.
"Yet, if God wills that it continue, until all the wealth piled by the bond-man's two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash, shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said three thousand years ago, so still it must be said "the judgments of the Lord, are true and righteous altogether"
"With malice toward none; with charity for all; with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in; to bind up the nation's wounds; to care for him who shall have borne the battle, and for his widow, and his orphan--to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace, among ourselves, and with all nations."
These God-bothering candidates would never say anything like that. That is my problem with their talk of religion. Lincoln talking from religion was just fine with me.
121
150 years later, that's still one of the greatest speeches ever made - and Abe didn't even believe in Christianity! He was a Deist.
58
Matthew Carnicelli -- It was a great pleasure to offer up some of Lincoln's finest words, finest from a master of the language rarely equaled. Jefferson wrote a few things near as good, and Shakespeare perhaps more. That is the class Lincoln is in.
My comments to day are showing less popularity in recommends despite being quite early. Still, it is what I believe, and I am pleased to have offered them. The chance to offer Lincoln was certainly the icing on that.
Any evening including rereading some of Lincoln's best is a good evening for me.
My comments to day are showing less popularity in recommends despite being quite early. Still, it is what I believe, and I am pleased to have offered them. The chance to offer Lincoln was certainly the icing on that.
Any evening including rereading some of Lincoln's best is a good evening for me.
6
Lincoln wasn't a Deist; those were the Founding Fathers. Deism had fallen by the wayside by the mid-19th century. Lincoln had a kind of free-floating idea of God, without belonging to a church or subscribing to a creed; in today's parlance he might be called spiritual but not religious.
5
When Rubio invoked his savior during the Republucan debate and the others chimed in with their equally inappropriate Christian references, my only thought was oy-vey.
220
Very funny !
2
Perhaps if we went back to our European religious roots in the bronze age, where a king was ritually sacrificed for failure, or for simply ending his term of office, presidential candidates would be less enthusiastic about injecting religion into politics.
59
Bush/Cheney First !!
2
According to a recent study by the Pew Research Center, the number of Evangelical Christians is less than 25% of the over 18 (i.e. voting age) population.
The bulk of this country is not beholden to the Evangelicals and won't take kindly to those who indirectly propose to turn the US into a "Christian caliphate."
The bulk of this country is not beholden to the Evangelicals and won't take kindly to those who indirectly propose to turn the US into a "Christian caliphate."
253
You beat me to it HN. I was just about to cite the same study.
In it, "Christians" made up about 70.6% of the population, "Non-Christian Faiths" 5.9%, and "Unaffilliated" (Atheists/Agnostics/Nones) 22.8%. "Evangelicals" made up 25.4% of the 70% who identify as "Christian".
With a population of 225 million adults, that means that there are over 65 million of us who are not Christians, let alone Evangelicals.
How are we, the Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu and "Other" faiths, the Atheists and Agnostics supposed to react to would be "leaders" that exhort us to "awaken the body of Christ", who's stated purpose of life is to "cooperate with God's plan", and who count as friends and supporters people who see the need for the candidates to accept Jesus as "king of the president of the United States".
If any of them are elected dog-catcher, it would be it would be taxation without representation indeed for non-christians, as it has been for most of us for a long time. I cringe at the word, but maybe it's time for another "Tea Party" of an entirely different stripe?
In it, "Christians" made up about 70.6% of the population, "Non-Christian Faiths" 5.9%, and "Unaffilliated" (Atheists/Agnostics/Nones) 22.8%. "Evangelicals" made up 25.4% of the 70% who identify as "Christian".
With a population of 225 million adults, that means that there are over 65 million of us who are not Christians, let alone Evangelicals.
How are we, the Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu and "Other" faiths, the Atheists and Agnostics supposed to react to would be "leaders" that exhort us to "awaken the body of Christ", who's stated purpose of life is to "cooperate with God's plan", and who count as friends and supporters people who see the need for the candidates to accept Jesus as "king of the president of the United States".
If any of them are elected dog-catcher, it would be it would be taxation without representation indeed for non-christians, as it has been for most of us for a long time. I cringe at the word, but maybe it's time for another "Tea Party" of an entirely different stripe?
46
Evangelicals may be only 25% of voters but they and other religious groups tend to actually go vote on election day, more than the rest. Their pastors tell them who to vote for and their sheeple dutifully go. So they may not represent the bulk of the country but they can end up winning elections.
There has to be a well coordinated movement to get people out to vote, like there was for Obama in 2008, with car pools to take them to the polling stations and the like. Some healthy lay fervor to counteract their religious fervor.
and the like.
There has to be a well coordinated movement to get people out to vote, like there was for Obama in 2008, with car pools to take them to the polling stations and the like. Some healthy lay fervor to counteract their religious fervor.
and the like.
14
In as much as 40+% of us believe that aliens walk among us, shouldn't we hold the first caucus or primary in Roswell, New Mexico? It's obviously Obama's fault for giving them all visas, and giving poor people MasterCards. I say we construct an alien reception center there, similar to Ellis Island, with a booth for each religion so they can register upon arrival. It could be modeled on a shopping mall, with colorful store fronts touting the benefits of Scientology, Rastafarianism, Santeria and Satanism, along with the more mainstream cults. Of course there will be Hare Krishna kiosks scattered about. I think Hugh Carey should be reanimated to run the place. That would prevent the abbots from opening a flower shop on the premises, because as we all know, only Hugh can prevent florist friars.
1
“Any president who doesn’t begin every day on his knees isn’t fit to be commander in chief of this country,” Cruz said then.
Well, there you have it. Apparently there is indeed a religious requirement for elected office in the great United States of America. Yet, I bet Mr. Cruz and his supporters also claim to be supporters of The Constitution.
Well, there you have it. Apparently there is indeed a religious requirement for elected office in the great United States of America. Yet, I bet Mr. Cruz and his supporters also claim to be supporters of The Constitution.
252
Yes and there is also a natural-born requirement he seems to ignore.
6
Jews don't get on their knees or prostrate except three times a year--during the Aleinu prayer on both days of Rosh Hashanah and on Yom Kippur Musaf services. Otherwise we don't kneel.
And I see no reason why a Jew isn't fit to be commander in chief of this country based on her faith.
And I see no reason why a Jew isn't fit to be commander in chief of this country based on her faith.
3
Anyone who sins that much, is not fit to be president.
America's founding fathers, that everybody loves so to quote, would be rolling in their graves to watch a primary election revolve around the degree of candidates' faith. While all were churchgoers and men of faith, they knew the dangers run-away religion could cause and enshrined a clear wall between church and state.
Every election cycle, we seem to get further and further into "religion-creep", where statements like "we are a Christian nation" and "A man with no religion is not fit to be President" go unchallenged by the press. The one thing I've observed in my relatively long life is this: the more one has to talk about their faith, the less of it they really have. Not for nothing is Perry's observation that : "Cruz, in contrast, “probably gets up every morning and asks God for forgiveness at least a couple of times, even before breakfast” and I very much doubt he caught the irony of his words.
I have a rule of thumb when it comes to religion and politics: Anyone who attends a conference where the speakers call for death to homosexuals, or any other group, is himself not fit to be president.
I agree, Frank, it's what you do and how you live, not what you say, that determines the degree of your faith, or lack thereof.
Every election cycle, we seem to get further and further into "religion-creep", where statements like "we are a Christian nation" and "A man with no religion is not fit to be President" go unchallenged by the press. The one thing I've observed in my relatively long life is this: the more one has to talk about their faith, the less of it they really have. Not for nothing is Perry's observation that : "Cruz, in contrast, “probably gets up every morning and asks God for forgiveness at least a couple of times, even before breakfast” and I very much doubt he caught the irony of his words.
I have a rule of thumb when it comes to religion and politics: Anyone who attends a conference where the speakers call for death to homosexuals, or any other group, is himself not fit to be president.
I agree, Frank, it's what you do and how you live, not what you say, that determines the degree of your faith, or lack thereof.
266
The founders were not all "church goers and men of faith". I could give you a whole page of quotes from Adams, Jefferson et al bashing religion but I'm sure you can use Google.
By the way, I'm quite certain that the U.S. has already had an atheist president.
By the way, I'm quite certain that the U.S. has already had an atheist president.
4
Rolling?!?
They are spinning fast enough to power Phoenix...
They are spinning fast enough to power Phoenix...
2
Frank, the argument for the separation of church and state is grounded in an mature understanding that the mixing of one with the other tends to spoil both.
One major problem with Red Iowa, and Red America in general, is that it refuses to accept that religion often has corrupted politics - just as a too close association with politics has invariably corrupted religion.
The other problem that Red Iowa refuses to face is that America has become a multi-cultural nation. By definition, a multicultural nation is one within which multiple conceptions of a Creator exist, alongside philosophies that discount or exclude the possibility of a Creator. Hence, America is never going back to their style of Christianity - which, to be blunt, tends to make a mockery of Jesus' actual teachings, and thus a horrible case for the religion. In contrast, Al Gore has been quoted as a considering conversion to Catholicism as a result of Pope Francis' ministry!
Today is the 68th anniversary of Gandhi's assassination. Gandhi espoused a style of religious practice that sought to bring people together, not divide them in sectarian hate and recrimination. Gandhi was inspired by Thoreau, and in turn inspired Martin Luther King. The movements that Gandhi and King forged accomplished more of enduring value than all the gun-toting, bible-quoting religious reactionaries of the 20th century combined.
Namaste.
One major problem with Red Iowa, and Red America in general, is that it refuses to accept that religion often has corrupted politics - just as a too close association with politics has invariably corrupted religion.
The other problem that Red Iowa refuses to face is that America has become a multi-cultural nation. By definition, a multicultural nation is one within which multiple conceptions of a Creator exist, alongside philosophies that discount or exclude the possibility of a Creator. Hence, America is never going back to their style of Christianity - which, to be blunt, tends to make a mockery of Jesus' actual teachings, and thus a horrible case for the religion. In contrast, Al Gore has been quoted as a considering conversion to Catholicism as a result of Pope Francis' ministry!
Today is the 68th anniversary of Gandhi's assassination. Gandhi espoused a style of religious practice that sought to bring people together, not divide them in sectarian hate and recrimination. Gandhi was inspired by Thoreau, and in turn inspired Martin Luther King. The movements that Gandhi and King forged accomplished more of enduring value than all the gun-toting, bible-quoting religious reactionaries of the 20th century combined.
Namaste.
181
Yes indeed, Namaste.
2
Ah yes, the Moral Majority. The Southern Strategy. As someone born and raised in the Bible Belt, nothing scares me more than the conversations I've had with locals basing all of their decisions on and firmly entrenched in the belief that we are currently in the End Times...backed by blood moon prophecy and superstitions (usually with a gun on their hip). The separation of church and state cannot be overstated.
423
Bruni's criticisms are all correct.
I think it's important to realize that the sort of religious madness that Bruni speaks of, the competition to be the biggest, dumbest, country yokel in a revivalist meeting in the Deep South, is worse than it used to be.
It would be instructive to examine old political speeches. For examine, I had the benefit of listening to Harry Truman's acceptance speech at the 48 convention. Not once did he mention the Almighty or Jesus. Also, he did not spend time saying that he loved America. He even failed to extol the virtues of apple pie. Instead, Truman, in the style of Bernie Sanders, just launched into the meat and potatoes of politics. He talked about money, and the denigration of the poor by the rich, and he connected with ordinary Americans.
Our obsessive desire to hear candidates profess their belief in G-d is downright stupid. Most of the soldiers who killed one another in World War One believed in G-d, but this did not result in their moral edification as they simply continued to kill one another.
I think it's important to realize that the sort of religious madness that Bruni speaks of, the competition to be the biggest, dumbest, country yokel in a revivalist meeting in the Deep South, is worse than it used to be.
It would be instructive to examine old political speeches. For examine, I had the benefit of listening to Harry Truman's acceptance speech at the 48 convention. Not once did he mention the Almighty or Jesus. Also, he did not spend time saying that he loved America. He even failed to extol the virtues of apple pie. Instead, Truman, in the style of Bernie Sanders, just launched into the meat and potatoes of politics. He talked about money, and the denigration of the poor by the rich, and he connected with ordinary Americans.
Our obsessive desire to hear candidates profess their belief in G-d is downright stupid. Most of the soldiers who killed one another in World War One believed in G-d, but this did not result in their moral edification as they simply continued to kill one another.
193
One refreshing thing about Sanders as a candidate for President is that he is a precious moment of peace when it comes to Jesus this and Jesus that.
I start every day by bending my knees to reach down and put on my socks, then I stand up and thank Thomas Jefferson for (despite other faults) trying to secure for us the separation of Church and State.
May we once again be able to vote for a deist for President, if not also an agnostic and/or an atheist.
I start every day by bending my knees to reach down and put on my socks, then I stand up and thank Thomas Jefferson for (despite other faults) trying to secure for us the separation of Church and State.
May we once again be able to vote for a deist for President, if not also an agnostic and/or an atheist.
326
Yes!!! Well said.
6
That evangelicals can in the same breath argue that we need less government and religious freedom and that any candidate for office in this "less government" structure should pass a religious litmus test should surprise nobody. That our country is founded on strict religious principles mandated by the very ministers who had fled England for religious freedom creates strange and strained ideologies. We deride and constantly point out of total failure of theocracies to their people and at the same time the evangelicals would have us have pretty much that. Go figure.
60
I’ve never been surprised at Trump’s popularity among evangelicals, despite his at best casual acquaintance with formal religion. Among those who seek dramatic change in our society we can count on the evangelicals to be among the most strident. What does Trump represent but dramatic change? It may be that the change he seeks or would wind up causing as president would have nothing to do with defining secularization down, but it certainly would be change. And THAT, to a cohort frustrated at an establishment sameness that runs counter to their beliefs, can only promise good things. Shake up an unacceptable reality any way you can, and opportunities may present themselves that you can embrace and nurture.
Then, evangelicals are if nothing else authoritarians. Trump offers an authoritarian worldview to his supporters that appeals to them, regardless of what a President Trump would use that insistent authority to dictate.
Finally, evangelicals are very certain people, certain in their convictions, and certain of the existence of a watchful and demanding God. Trump says the right words about religion to the religious, but is at hart a very CERTAIN man. That resonates with those who like to have their certainties presented to them as a bird presents pre-digested worms to its hatchlings.
Then, evangelicals are if nothing else authoritarians. Trump offers an authoritarian worldview to his supporters that appeals to them, regardless of what a President Trump would use that insistent authority to dictate.
Finally, evangelicals are very certain people, certain in their convictions, and certain of the existence of a watchful and demanding God. Trump says the right words about religion to the religious, but is at hart a very CERTAIN man. That resonates with those who like to have their certainties presented to them as a bird presents pre-digested worms to its hatchlings.
111
@ Richard Luettgen - Nice one, thank you - and I don't often agree with you.
10
Interesting characterization of evangelicals: authoritarian hatchlings, as it were. I'll have to digest that for a moment.
3
I like the comparison of the candidates' words to "pre-digested worms." Very apt!
2
"Religion was integral to our country’s founding. It’s central to our understanding of the liberty that each of us deserves." Sorry Frank, but nope, and nope. Some of the founding fathers were Deists. All were steeped in Enlightenment thought. Its then-revolutionary (literally) emphasis on principles such as individual liberty, progress, reason, and tolerance created the tide of activism that ultimately cleansed society of many of the abuses of the church and state. There's no question that the US of A has strong Judaeo-Christian (and Greco-Roman) roots. However, any statement to the effect that religion (meaning Christian dogma, I assume) was integral to its founding is too simplistic to be meaningful or accurate.
377
Religion WAS integral to our founding. If it weren't for the way the European countries dealt with religion and government we would be a nation. We are who we are because we came from countries that put religion before governance making a hash of it and inciting never-ending internal strife.
How odd that the Europeans seem to have it sorted out and we are still struggling with it.
How odd that the Europeans seem to have it sorted out and we are still struggling with it.
5
See Unitarianism, and Jefferson and the Jefferson Bible.
1
Thank you, Rob - I wanted to immediately correct that one miss-statement in Mr. Bruni's important piece, but you did it for me.
1
Religion usually degenerates into prescriptive language that tells you what you should do, the prescriber is usually exempted from his own prescription.
In that sense religion is a cudgel with which people in power manage to quell any disagreement with their position by simply claiming that they are only following the will of God, and therefore you must obey.
Politics is all about gaining and managing power. Under our Constitution We the People are supposed to be the sovereign power. To the actual rich and powerful the idea that the masses are the sovereign and that they only have one-vote each along with everyone else is anathema. Just like wealth and power they want it all with nothing for anyone else.
Religion has many powerful metaphors that are totally lost on most political people and unfortunately on We the People as well. The call of wealth and power almost always ends in ashes.
Compassion and love versus power and hate - that is the contest that few of us understand.
In that sense religion is a cudgel with which people in power manage to quell any disagreement with their position by simply claiming that they are only following the will of God, and therefore you must obey.
Politics is all about gaining and managing power. Under our Constitution We the People are supposed to be the sovereign power. To the actual rich and powerful the idea that the masses are the sovereign and that they only have one-vote each along with everyone else is anathema. Just like wealth and power they want it all with nothing for anyone else.
Religion has many powerful metaphors that are totally lost on most political people and unfortunately on We the People as well. The call of wealth and power almost always ends in ashes.
Compassion and love versus power and hate - that is the contest that few of us understand.
51
Remember when George W Bush was asked if he looked to poppy Bush for advice? His answer: He looked to a higher authority.
Look where that got us: into interminable wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, a debacle in New Orleans, and an economic meltdown of epic proportions.
My higher authority tells me to avoid like the plague these 'God-fearing' candidates. We require a grounded candidate in the White House, not one whose eyes are cast upon Heaven above. We need someone who is answerable to our citizens, not to some whims that he or she claims are the voice of the Almighty giving us our walking instructions. If that's what I wanted, I would emigrate to some theocracy where dictators cloak themselves in a god of their own invention.
Look where that got us: into interminable wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, a debacle in New Orleans, and an economic meltdown of epic proportions.
My higher authority tells me to avoid like the plague these 'God-fearing' candidates. We require a grounded candidate in the White House, not one whose eyes are cast upon Heaven above. We need someone who is answerable to our citizens, not to some whims that he or she claims are the voice of the Almighty giving us our walking instructions. If that's what I wanted, I would emigrate to some theocracy where dictators cloak themselves in a god of their own invention.
235
The Republican Party is thrilled to traffic in religious pandemonium, that political narcotic that dulls the Republican voter base senses so completely that they don't even feel anything when 'the family values' party organizes GOP Death Panels to withhold healthcare from the 'least among us'....isn't that exactly what that nasty Jesus would have done ?
Iowa's Governor Terry Branstad publicly proclaimed July 14, 2014 "to be a Day of Public Fasting, Humiliation and Prayer throughout Iowa, calling upon the Ministers of the Gospel, of every Denomination, with their respective Congregations, to assemble on that Day, and devoutly implore the Divine forgiveness of our Sins" thereby shattering the wall of separation of church and state, a veritable clarion call to Christian fundamentalist elephants to come stomping forward with religious fantasy, superstition and Christian Shariah rule of the state.
These wonderful compassionate conservative types endlessly hijack the good name, words and reputation of Jesus as they demand a frozen minimum wage and a metastatic CEO wage.
It's the Gospel Of Prosperity making another sacred appearance for more 0.1% economic violence on the congregation.
We need to repeal the ACA, eliminate the estate tax on the 0.2% wealthiest Americans, scream "war-war-what-are-we-waiting-for !", arm the nation with guns and create the living hell on earth that surely Jesus would have wanted.
The Gospel Of 0.1% Prosperity is the entire Republican Party platform.
Iowa's Governor Terry Branstad publicly proclaimed July 14, 2014 "to be a Day of Public Fasting, Humiliation and Prayer throughout Iowa, calling upon the Ministers of the Gospel, of every Denomination, with their respective Congregations, to assemble on that Day, and devoutly implore the Divine forgiveness of our Sins" thereby shattering the wall of separation of church and state, a veritable clarion call to Christian fundamentalist elephants to come stomping forward with religious fantasy, superstition and Christian Shariah rule of the state.
These wonderful compassionate conservative types endlessly hijack the good name, words and reputation of Jesus as they demand a frozen minimum wage and a metastatic CEO wage.
It's the Gospel Of Prosperity making another sacred appearance for more 0.1% economic violence on the congregation.
We need to repeal the ACA, eliminate the estate tax on the 0.2% wealthiest Americans, scream "war-war-what-are-we-waiting-for !", arm the nation with guns and create the living hell on earth that surely Jesus would have wanted.
The Gospel Of 0.1% Prosperity is the entire Republican Party platform.
705
Preach it Brother! Testimony!
1
Republicans think they have exclusive rights to God. Pssst let them in on a little secret here, God is not exclusive, God is not selective and God is not sitting up somewhere in long white robes, long flowing white beard, passing judgements on his creation. In all 7 billion of us, each and every one, there is a spark which is nothing but the light of God. Each one has equal access, no one is more favored, more cherished than the other. How can a parent choose between his children? How can a parent not be benevolent, merciful, just, kind, considerate, loving, caring to his children. Kevin is so right, of all the candidates standing before us, Bernie truly represents what God has been whispering in our ears all along.
55
I'm beginning to understand why 41% of the American electorate systematically votes against their own best interest. It's not because they're for Trump, Cruz or any of the other loony tunes bench-warmers. It's because they truly hate liberal true believers, deep-in-the-soul loathing of clueless know-it-alls who play king of the hill with their own kind and rules they make up as they go along. A democracy isn't a football game between two teams with 150 million on each side. Trash talking and boasting how your rookie quarterback will win the game with hail marys isn't a winning strategy. Wearing a T-shirt emblazoned "I'm with stupid" is a shanked punt. I'm beginning to really sympathize with evangelicals for Trump with every hallmark simpy card posted by another moonshot Bernie dilettante. Sanders really deserves fair consideration that's denied him because his boosters have become toxic (yep, rhymes with Quixotic) and sufficient justification to oppose his candidacy not just with empirical reasons but with passion. The rabies epidemic that grips Sanders fan base makes it hard to discern the political naifs from the Koch operatives working for his nomination and against Hillary. Not that Sanders' acolytes care. Just an EDM rave fueled by ecstasy and the bungee cord drop that's less about the future of America than a lost tribe improvising a false narrative.
3
@Yuri Asian: So Republicans are lining up to follow The Donald over the precipice while chanting "HE'LL tell us what to do" simply as a reaction to Democrats doing the same for Bernie? If so, they're even dumber than I thought.
22
@Stu: You clearly overestimated their intelligence. It's always been rock-bottom dumb. Dumber isn't possible. Except maybe folks who are smart but a childhood fear of the dark grips them and they develop a severe loss of memory, forgetting how to do basic math and how American elections deny success to third parties, myopic crusaders, non-conformists, tax advocates, no names and unknowns, anyone who can't hold their base of 41 to 45% of all voters AND win 51% of the 2 to 3 million voters not part of either base who decide every election. The primary process in America is just like the Chinese Communist Party -- 65 million who pick leaders at every level and ultimately the small circle of proven leaders from which the top leadership is selected every five years. The general election is different. The winner has to win the confidence, affection, and the benefit of the doubt for the 100 million Americans who bother to vote. Big help if the candidate's name is known and familiar. Cruz and Rubio will never be elected because they're unknown and have names their own base won't support. Dukakis lost Democratic voters who didn't recognize or felt uncomfortable with his name. Really helps to go to church, even if it's just a token gesture. Republican push polls asked voters if an Orthodox Joe Lieberman could run the country on Saturday and then explained the question. Smart people who've forgotten these basic, proven realities, given the stakes, are irresponsible and dumb.
1
Even though he’s biblically illiterate, Trump resonates with evangelicals because he channels their true motives. He sneers at liberal government, makes a virtue of intolerance, and denigrates women, showing visible disgust at normal bodily functions. So what if he doesn’t do it while hiding behind a mask of faux piety?
Fundamentalists of every stripe seem to be immune to the hypocrisy of talking about peace, love and understanding while supporting wars, bashing gays and denying science. Congress is filled to the gills with lawmakers who would be right at home in the 16th century. In a country founded on secular principles that specifically separate church and state, atheists are virtually unelectable.
Yet religion makes manipulative con men and charlatans look like prophets. Cruz’s blatant pandering to the low-information fundamentalist voters would be detectable by a precocious two-year-old, but they swallowing the disingenuous theocratic theatrics, hook, line and sinker.
Mercifully, Iowa is not representative of the country as a whole. Santorum and Huckabee are non-starters in a national election. More people than ever identify as non-religious, and considering the stigma associated with admitting one’s atheism, it’s likely that the numbers are higher than polling will reveal.
Bush asked God for advice before starting a war with Iraq. While that may be better than asking Dick Cheney, I’d rather a president rely on his innate empathy, altruism and mercy.
Fundamentalists of every stripe seem to be immune to the hypocrisy of talking about peace, love and understanding while supporting wars, bashing gays and denying science. Congress is filled to the gills with lawmakers who would be right at home in the 16th century. In a country founded on secular principles that specifically separate church and state, atheists are virtually unelectable.
Yet religion makes manipulative con men and charlatans look like prophets. Cruz’s blatant pandering to the low-information fundamentalist voters would be detectable by a precocious two-year-old, but they swallowing the disingenuous theocratic theatrics, hook, line and sinker.
Mercifully, Iowa is not representative of the country as a whole. Santorum and Huckabee are non-starters in a national election. More people than ever identify as non-religious, and considering the stigma associated with admitting one’s atheism, it’s likely that the numbers are higher than polling will reveal.
Bush asked God for advice before starting a war with Iraq. While that may be better than asking Dick Cheney, I’d rather a president rely on his innate empathy, altruism and mercy.
672
Haven't you heard? The Republican slate, and many of their buddies in Congress have no empathy, remorse, compassion, conscience, are pathological liars, and have narcissism that's off the charts. Sociopaths can be very charming and easily lead unsuspecting, low-education, low-information voters whose lack of experience in the broader world leave them knowing nothing of these man-eaters.
43
Bush asked God? That's what he was scripted to say. If that's religion, I'll take fascism straight, no chaser.
2
Yet GWBush apparently decided to listen to Dick Cheney, et alia, because God refused to talk to him.
3
The particular religious fixation that one encounters in American political life cannot be a healthy condition for a nation that claims to separate church and state. Even without getting into a debate about the specifics, the inherent hypocrisy of the involvement of spiritual beliefs in the nation is damaging to us all. The sight of frankly cynical politicians claiming beliefs that they do not remotely live by may be consistent with doing whatever it takes to advance themselves, but is just another sign of their ethical bankruptcy.
309
We elected a black man president. We just may elect a woman president later this year.
I'm willing to wager that it will be a long time before we ever elect an avowed atheist president.
How fitting is it that Trump is leading among evangelical voters?
As fitting as the fact that the one candidate who would get the vote of Jesus is a democratic socialist; a fellow Jew whose policy proposals are in keeping with the preaching of that rabble-rousing Rabbi from 2000 years ago.
I'm willing to wager that it will be a long time before we ever elect an avowed atheist president.
How fitting is it that Trump is leading among evangelical voters?
As fitting as the fact that the one candidate who would get the vote of Jesus is a democratic socialist; a fellow Jew whose policy proposals are in keeping with the preaching of that rabble-rousing Rabbi from 2000 years ago.
582
Amen amen and amen.
5
"How fitting is it that Trump is leading among evangelical voters?"
Makes perfect sense. Who is more a True Believer in faith over fact (In this case, Probability) than someone who frequents casinos?
Makes perfect sense. Who is more a True Believer in faith over fact (In this case, Probability) than someone who frequents casinos?
8
I found it amusing when Trump was asked about his favorite Bible verse. He responded, "Oh, there are so many. I won't say because that's a highly personal thing." The sad thing is that 50% of the population has an IQ of under 100, and most of them support this self-serving blowhard.
11
If you've got metaphorical wax in your ears, you're not going to hear very accurately whatever guidance you're receiving. And these candidates strike me as having a lot of earwax: anger, fear, ambition, greed -- ego-issues in general. So even on the terms these candidates are asserting, I don't think their appeal to religiosity is persuasive to show they would make a good president or commander-in-chief.
79
I realize this falls on deaf ears, but it gets tiring reading (or skipping) yet another column slamming the GOP. Not because they are not worthy of each and every criticism, but because virtually none of the Times readership really cares about Trump and the GOP.
Why the inordinate coverage of Trump and the clown car when we have real issues facing this Country? Issues for which Republicans offer no solutions.
Your employer endorsed Hillary today and maybe that prevents you from writing about the more relevant race--Sanders v. Clinton. The race that actually involves real issues affecting real people.
Not that you asked, but here are a few topics for future columns:
1. What is the best way to make higher education affordable for all students?
2 How do we bring affordable/accessible healthcare to every citizen as a matter of right?
3. Is it possible to pay every worker a living wage with benefits?
4. What role does money play in politics. Can candidates receiving tens of millions from corporate interests be expected to regulate them?
5. Is real Democracy dead? Are we supposed to just show up every 2 years to vote and then shut up?
6. How are our children/grandchildren going to survive if we continue on the same course of the past 30 years?
I would enjoy hearing your thoughts on issues that are actually relevant to our lives.
Why the inordinate coverage of Trump and the clown car when we have real issues facing this Country? Issues for which Republicans offer no solutions.
Your employer endorsed Hillary today and maybe that prevents you from writing about the more relevant race--Sanders v. Clinton. The race that actually involves real issues affecting real people.
Not that you asked, but here are a few topics for future columns:
1. What is the best way to make higher education affordable for all students?
2 How do we bring affordable/accessible healthcare to every citizen as a matter of right?
3. Is it possible to pay every worker a living wage with benefits?
4. What role does money play in politics. Can candidates receiving tens of millions from corporate interests be expected to regulate them?
5. Is real Democracy dead? Are we supposed to just show up every 2 years to vote and then shut up?
6. How are our children/grandchildren going to survive if we continue on the same course of the past 30 years?
I would enjoy hearing your thoughts on issues that are actually relevant to our lives.
542
How about the likelihood of Sanders' proposals actually working out, as much as they might be desired?
6
Forget about future columns and your list above.
The cable and regular t.v. stations should be giving attention
to your list above, but all you see is 99% coverage of trump
and the inane Caucasus and primaries. There is so little concern
in coverage of the crime of Flint, Mi., that it's really shameful.
If CNN were a person, I would love to see a public flogging.
The cable and regular t.v. stations should be giving attention
to your list above, but all you see is 99% coverage of trump
and the inane Caucasus and primaries. There is so little concern
in coverage of the crime of Flint, Mi., that it's really shameful.
If CNN were a person, I would love to see a public flogging.
1
What proposals? Wishes and dreams? We all have them, but governing requires more than that.
2
Why is it the press misses the entire point? Religion has NO PLACE in discussions about politics. None. OUR UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION GUARANTEES SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE SO THE GOVERNMENT CANNOT INTERFERE IN HOW SOMEONE CHOOSES TO WORSHIP AND RELIGION CANNOT INTERFERE IN A PERSON'S CHOICE OF HOW TO WORSHIP - OR NOT. That is the point. Why is that important? The article says, "Cruz, in contrast, “probably gets up every morning and asks God for forgiveness at least a couple of times, even before breakfast,” Sounds eerily like the Islam faith that requires five prayer times a day for men - the faith so many of these supposed christians hate and are afraid of. DO NOT VOTE FOR ANY CANDIDATE FOR ANY OFFICE IN THE LAND WHO COURTS THE RELIGIOUS VOTE. WE do not want to live in a taliban-type christian nation and radical pretend christianity is no better than radical islam or any other radical religion running a country.
969
Thank you, thank you!
9
Excellent. But I'd go even further: I don't want ideologues of any stripe, period. No fundamentalists, no fanatics, no true believers, and I don't care if what they're pushing is their religion or their purely secular "-isms".
Everyone needs his convictions, and I expect---no, demand---that anyone running for office should have limits beyond which she or he will not go. But those limits should define a space within which give and take can occur, within which compromise is possible. That's also where tolerance comes from; and in our hyper-polarized society, that's a commodity that's sorely needed.
But when conversation takes on the tenor of: We Possess The Only Truth! My Way Or The Highway! If You're Not Completely With Us You're Completely Against Us! …well, you can count me out; I for one will not go there, and I don't care whether it's coming from the right or the left.
Everyone needs his convictions, and I expect---no, demand---that anyone running for office should have limits beyond which she or he will not go. But those limits should define a space within which give and take can occur, within which compromise is possible. That's also where tolerance comes from; and in our hyper-polarized society, that's a commodity that's sorely needed.
But when conversation takes on the tenor of: We Possess The Only Truth! My Way Or The Highway! If You're Not Completely With Us You're Completely Against Us! …well, you can count me out; I for one will not go there, and I don't care whether it's coming from the right or the left.
19
I share your outrage, but you have to keep in mind all of this is fake. I agree that it's sickening but for the most part it's theater, though it only rises to the level of grade school plays. I don't believe for a minute that Cruz ever asked anyone for forgiveness or Trump has genuflected to anything but the almighty dollar. Likewise, Rubio and Bush will say anything they think will keep them in the running, regardless of how egregiously counterfactual it may be. Christie is trying to reprise Giuliani in making us all afraid of another 9/11 and positioning himself as the guy we need on that wall. For me at least, something about cops and donuts immediately comes to mind.
In the end I see a bunch of schoolyard bullies throwing tantrums, kicking and flailing, holding their breath till they turn the brightest red. If we ignored them, they'd just do it louder, but maybe they'd burn out sooner. I say let's give it a shot.
In the end I see a bunch of schoolyard bullies throwing tantrums, kicking and flailing, holding their breath till they turn the brightest red. If we ignored them, they'd just do it louder, but maybe they'd burn out sooner. I say let's give it a shot.
5
This is simply not true. The first settlers were religious but the founding fathers were not. The great miracle (if I may use that word) of the founding of the country was that there was not only no state religion or privileges because of a profession of any one faith but guarantees to the contrary. Europeans were amazed that a new country was coming into existence without religion. These were men of the Enlightenment.
“All religions are equally sublime to the ignorant, useful to the politician, and ridiculous to the philosopher”
-Lucretius (Roman Philosopher 99 BCE - 55 BCE)