Not a bad take on Zionist Israel, Roger, but you fail to mention that Zionist Israel's forced military "occupation" of Gaza, East Jerusalem and the West Bank (what remains of Palestine) is now five decades old, the longest such occupation in modern history. Nor do you chronicle the context of this occupation: seizure and/or destruction without compensation of Palestinian homes, businesses, farms and property, heavy restrictions of travel within Palestine, including construction of 25-foot concrete walls snaking through the West bank and East Jerusalem, hundreds of military "checkpoints" and other barriers making it increasingly difficult for Palestinians to seek medical care, visit relatives and friends, shopping, and the farming of Palestinian lands. No mention either of the nine-year-old blockade of Gaza, a small strip of land containing 1.8 million Palestinians isolated from the rest of Palestine (East Jerusalem and the West Bank) and from the rest of the world as well. But, all in all, this piece is far better than most published in the Times. Congratulations!
9
Israel's mode of birth of dislocate,dispossess, disfranchise, subjugate the indigenous population of the land it coveted followed by the unprecedented denial of right of return to homes amid homeland to those of the indigenous population of the land who happened to be outside what became Israel is the major personality ,entity and psyche mounded and guiding principle of the Israel,we all see now.
It's violation of its only birth certificate issued by the UNGA! The Partition of Palestine, and subsequent incursion into land allocated to a proposed Arab state, the support it received throughout for its illegitimate practices and the moral,aura that it acquired ALL served to imbue Israel with the feeling of unaccountaility and exceptionalism list and the conviction that it's support n thr West will remain unchanged no matter what it does embolden Israel to occupy and de fact annex further Palestinian Territories and neglect, overlook and defy universal,will safely with the USA veto at the UN sC at its service,
The outcome is the Israel we see now with whom most of the world disagrees but still adamant and inflexible while basking in American favour and the safety net of the UzsA veto power at the UNSC.
It's violation of its only birth certificate issued by the UNGA! The Partition of Palestine, and subsequent incursion into land allocated to a proposed Arab state, the support it received throughout for its illegitimate practices and the moral,aura that it acquired ALL served to imbue Israel with the feeling of unaccountaility and exceptionalism list and the conviction that it's support n thr West will remain unchanged no matter what it does embolden Israel to occupy and de fact annex further Palestinian Territories and neglect, overlook and defy universal,will safely with the USA veto at the UN sC at its service,
The outcome is the Israel we see now with whom most of the world disagrees but still adamant and inflexible while basking in American favour and the safety net of the UzsA veto power at the UNSC.
3
I am Jewish man of more than 70 years. I do not favor a "Jewish State" any more than I favor "the Islamic Republic of This" or "The Christian Republic of That." A religious state of whatever kind is never a democratic state or a republic. It is always a theocracy or a theocracy in the making.
6
I think you mean well Mr Cohen. I've not visited to Israel or Palestine. But I consider myself informed from both news media and journals. My inescapable conclusion always seems to lean heavily that if the Palestinians accepted Israels plans there would be eventually be peace and at least opportunity to prosperity. On the other hand if Israel accepts the Palestinian plan there would certainly be wholesale murder of Israeli citizens.
17
This is another distorted description of the reality in Israel and in Judea and Samaria, the West Bank. It is wholly ahistorical and shows no appreciation whatsoever of Israel's repeated efforts to make peace with the Palestinians. It shows no understanding whatsoever of the historical connection of the Jewish people to Judea and Samaria.
There is not a word here about the Palestinian Arab refusal to accept a Jewish state in any part of the land of Israel.
Cohen here is contributing his little bit to discrediting Israel as he has contributed his little bit in promoting the Iran deal to undermining its security in a different way.
With saviors of Israel like this who needs enemies?
There is not a word here about the Palestinian Arab refusal to accept a Jewish state in any part of the land of Israel.
Cohen here is contributing his little bit to discrediting Israel as he has contributed his little bit in promoting the Iran deal to undermining its security in a different way.
With saviors of Israel like this who needs enemies?
17
in the Peace Treaty signed with the State of Israel, the Kingdom of Jordan stated it is not Palestine. However, under the original terms of the British Mandate and under the internationally binding resolutions of the League of Nations, it was part, a larger one, of Palestine. The resolutions of the League of Nations are binding on her successor, the UN. Hence, the so-called Arab-Israeli "Peace Process" in the ME is based in agreed upon politically convenient lie. There is not a word about "Palestinians" or "Palestinian Refugees" in that Peace Treaty with the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.
12
One thing is certain: everyone would have been better off if the Palestinians and the rest of the Arabs had accepted the partition. Having stated this undoubted truth, one should understand their feelings when their lives, once more, were being disposed by colonial powers and foreign countries who having countenanced the murder of millions, sought to clear their consciences by imposing upon Palestinians the burden of taking millions of people in their midst. Not only that, they had also to give part of their land to these people. Say what you will about the traditional political incompetence and internal conflicts of the Arabs, no people, country or not, will absorb easily this kind of invasion. Especially when this wave of people resulted in the ejection and exile of hundreds of thousands of their own. If anyone wants proof of it, see the present reaction of tolerant and liberal countries like Sweden and Denmark. And if you want a closer example, follow the toxic immigration discussion among Republicans here at home. No understanding of the Palestinian position is possible without taking into consideration what, "pace" Netanyahu, was more than an existential threat.
4
The thing that amazes me is how American diplomats will rightly expound with no holds barred on the evil of Putin's annexation of the Crimea, but have to be muted on the virtual annexation of West Bank land stolen for settlements. What is so special about these settler types, many of whom born and raised in Brooklyn or Moscow with zero prior connection to West Bank farmland, that I as an American Jew am supposed to applaud this land theft or else be labeled by the Likud and its sycophants here as a "self hater"? That the US continues to kowtow to these thieves is beyond shameful.
8
I generally support Israel as the only country in the area that approaches our enlightenment values and an ally (which will return to full strength with the next president, perhaps whoever it is). I do not support the settlements and find them repulsive. I honestly don't know what the solution is short of a cultural revolution in Palestine, because Israel is by far the stronger of the two, and I do not see that happening.
1
so which is the more virulent theocracy, Israel or Iran?
4
Israel always claims it wants a two state solution, but the truth is that Israle desires no such thing. With two states, Israel would have to recognize international borders, loose control over the West Bank, and stop stealing Palestinian land. It isn't going to happen. Don't believe this? Look at a map of Israeli settlements in the West Bank.
5
My only visit to Israel in the 1980's was meant to provide me with a real time visitor's experience when the country was only 30 years old.
A walking tour of Old Jerusalem, the Western Wall, Masada, and the West Bank left me with a biased view of Israel devoid of any meaningful contact with the Palestinian community.
Miko Peled grew up in Jerusalem and did not make his first Arab friend until he moved to San Diego years later.
The Israel government were masters at blocking off the Palestinian culture from each other and the outside world.
My visit to this Israeli Potemkin village was sadly lacking in any semblance of the reality of hatefulness going on behind the scene.
Please observe the present day result.
A walking tour of Old Jerusalem, the Western Wall, Masada, and the West Bank left me with a biased view of Israel devoid of any meaningful contact with the Palestinian community.
Miko Peled grew up in Jerusalem and did not make his first Arab friend until he moved to San Diego years later.
The Israel government were masters at blocking off the Palestinian culture from each other and the outside world.
My visit to this Israeli Potemkin village was sadly lacking in any semblance of the reality of hatefulness going on behind the scene.
Please observe the present day result.
4
That is like saying "Your Image Issue" because someone else doesnt like your chosen hair style...
1
I fear that regarding the orthodox and ultra-orthodox segments of the Jewish community both in Israel and here in the U.S., there isn't going to be much sympathy for the Palestinians, simply because of the fact that they aren't Jewish. This is a real problem when it comes to establishing a democratic state. How can you believe in being fair to all of the people in your country when your orthodox religion does indeed imply that non-Jews are intrinsically less important that Jews? And I say this as a Jew who has witnessed this attitude among orthodox Jews here in New York. If you really believe that a person is automatically less important than you are simply because of their religion, how and where are you going to find the compassion needed to care about their needs or their suffering?
3
Aside from the ridulous false equivalency of the second to last paragraph (why can't the Palestinians endure the oppression silently?), a surprisingly accurate description of Israeli intransigence from a Times pundit.
3
Twelve U.S. administrations have put a great deal of time, money and energy trying to promote peace between Israelis and Palestinians. They have failed with no prospect for success. Let's give it a rest and forget about Israel for a while. Stop the money, arms, lecturing, and sharing intelligence.
3
Offer again, place on the table, every peace proposal to the Palestinians from Rabin to Olmert. Last I heard even chocolate is forbidden in Gaza. What's the worry? Stop holding grudges. Negotiations can't happen until total humiliation & subjection is complete? Everyone has suffered. Israel has a right to exist. Two states. Make it happen. Enough is enough.
6
Israel spends less tan $100 million a year lobbying the US Congress.
Israel receives over $3 Billion in US aid.
A good return on investment.
Israel receives over $3 Billion in US aid.
A good return on investment.
3
Just wondering...after looking at many comments: Am I the only one who observes that things like negotiated settlements, peaceful diplomatic secure agreements, and the like don't seem to be too common between the various groups in the middle east.....with each other, not just with Israel? Am I kind of out of step with reality in thinking that some cultural and possibly other kinds of deep seated issues (not so common in 'the west') might possibly be at play? If I'm correct (maybe I'm not), applying EU type logic to this regioin might not be realistic, and people in Israel might be slightly wary of it.
5
I have great respect for the people of Israel and I am pleased that America is the guarantor of Israel’s existence. However, I am not pleased with extremists of any kind, both Muslim and Jewish.
I don’t like extremists like Prime Minister Netanyahu who has turned back the great progress that Menachem Begin and others made to advance the cause of peace.
I don’t like the fact that Israel’s Dahiya Doctrine, a policy that punishes civilians was clearly at work in the brutal military action that killed scores of Gazan women and children.
I don’t like the games Israel’s extremists are playing by selling to their number one weapons customer, China, while simultaneously receiving and harvesting the latest technology of US weapons in the V-22 Osprey and F-35 Lightening II.
I especially don’t like the gross lobbying of Prime Minister Netanyahu and his incompetent team of AIPAC lobbyists in America’s political arena, that is simply not acceptable.
What I do like is the possibility that people in Israel will come to see the short sightedness of Netanyahu’s extremism because Israel cannot kill all the Palestinians, and it cannot sustain the oppression of these people.
I don’t like extremists like Prime Minister Netanyahu who has turned back the great progress that Menachem Begin and others made to advance the cause of peace.
I don’t like the fact that Israel’s Dahiya Doctrine, a policy that punishes civilians was clearly at work in the brutal military action that killed scores of Gazan women and children.
I don’t like the games Israel’s extremists are playing by selling to their number one weapons customer, China, while simultaneously receiving and harvesting the latest technology of US weapons in the V-22 Osprey and F-35 Lightening II.
I especially don’t like the gross lobbying of Prime Minister Netanyahu and his incompetent team of AIPAC lobbyists in America’s political arena, that is simply not acceptable.
What I do like is the possibility that people in Israel will come to see the short sightedness of Netanyahu’s extremism because Israel cannot kill all the Palestinians, and it cannot sustain the oppression of these people.
3
Early Zionist leaders (jabotinsky) acknowledged that the Zionist project was an act of colonization and that the colonized, like all colonized people, would fight back. He wrote this in the 1920's and he was, it turns out, quite right. Israel was born in bloodshed and the bleeding hasn't stopped. The only thing that might stop it is the creation of a single pluralistic, secular state where all have equal rights. This was the view of some leaders in the early Zionist movement but they didn't win the day. Unfortunately we will probably have a woman pope long before there is real peace between Arabs and Jews.
1
“To be pro-Israel is being seen as more and more of a right-wing thing"
When Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu visited the US, he chose to meet with only right wing US politicians. He did not meet left leaning politicians, including fellow Jews, who are or were pro-Israel in the past. The Israeli government therefor very definitively showed where it thinks its friends are. They fact Mr Netanyahu seems to favor those who favor a military solution to political problems, are suspicious of Islam and all Muslims, and generally hold all other races then their own in contempt should come to no surprise.
When Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu visited the US, he chose to meet with only right wing US politicians. He did not meet left leaning politicians, including fellow Jews, who are or were pro-Israel in the past. The Israeli government therefor very definitively showed where it thinks its friends are. They fact Mr Netanyahu seems to favor those who favor a military solution to political problems, are suspicious of Islam and all Muslims, and generally hold all other races then their own in contempt should come to no surprise.
2
Israel has been showing its middle finger to America ever since Netenyahu became its prime minister. More and more illegal settlement activity in occupied Palestinian lands rankles American sensibilities. Attempts to recognize goods produced in these settlements and exported under 'product of israel' is an underhanded way to recognize these settlements as part of Israel by America. Finally Netenyahu coming to America and insulting our president in our own congress was the straw that Americans feel was that caused a schism in how we think of Israel. Many American now think of Israel as a blackmailer ready to pull the antisemitic card to stifle any criticism of its policies.
4
Israel has always had the frying pan by the handle. Meaning they could have gotten peace with the Palestinians whenever it suited them. It is still The HUGE Elephant in the room that nobody notices. Everybody takes the status quo as things as should be. This half.century crisis has been the seed of most violence in the Middle East. A reason for the Iraq invasion as well as a permanent cause for young muslim to right the humiliation, abuse and indignation of Palestinian lives, and join ISIS.
It is about time that the UN takes responsibility and oblige both parties to
accept a just partition of then-palestine, Even by force if needs be.
It is time to stop the occupation.
It is about time that the UN takes responsibility and oblige both parties to
accept a just partition of then-palestine, Even by force if needs be.
It is time to stop the occupation.
4
Even if Roger's criticism were mostly accurate, which it definitely is not, his conclusion would be wrong. It is not the right-wing government in Israel which stands in the way of peace; Palestinians have started intifadas when Israel was led by the left as well as when it was led by the right. It is not the occupation or settlements which stand in the way of peace; when Israel left Gaza (under a right-wing government), there was no peace because Palestinians used the freedom they had longed for to attack Israel. And, when Israel offered to leave the West Bank in 2000 in exchange for peace, the Palestinians responded with an intifada. Fortunately, when they rejected a similar offer by Israel in 2008, they did so with less violence.
The obstacle to peace is the Palestinians’ rejection of the Jews' right to the very national self-determination that they demand for themselves. You see their rejectionist posture in their leaders’ actions and statements, in their media, and in their educational system. Where you don't see it is in Roger's column, which devotes only a single sentence to acknowledging any agency whatsoever on the Palestinians' part.
This is unfortunate because there won’t be peace until there is reciprocal recognition of rights; Netanyahu has taken this step while Abbas has refused. And it is his refusal, which Roger doesn’t find important enough to even mention, which prevents any progress toward peace.
The obstacle to peace is the Palestinians’ rejection of the Jews' right to the very national self-determination that they demand for themselves. You see their rejectionist posture in their leaders’ actions and statements, in their media, and in their educational system. Where you don't see it is in Roger's column, which devotes only a single sentence to acknowledging any agency whatsoever on the Palestinians' part.
This is unfortunate because there won’t be peace until there is reciprocal recognition of rights; Netanyahu has taken this step while Abbas has refused. And it is his refusal, which Roger doesn’t find important enough to even mention, which prevents any progress toward peace.
11
Recently, a senior Israeli military official noted that if Israel wanted to mount an all-out ground attack on Islamic State forces in southern Syria and the Sinai Peninsula, it could wipe them out in three or four hours. “But what would happen the day after?” asked this Israeli military official. “Right now, we think it will be worse.
Worse for who? Answer: Israel. Then, who should be left to address the problem? “The Israelis argue that the United States is a superpower, and that if it wants to maintain leadership in the region, it must lead the fight to roll back the Islamic State.”
And, at the same time, the illegal settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem are being expanded by Israel. And that’s a problem for who? Answer: The United States.
There you have it: The perfect “win-win” situation for Israel and the perfect “lose-lose” situation for the United States.
Worse for who? Answer: Israel. Then, who should be left to address the problem? “The Israelis argue that the United States is a superpower, and that if it wants to maintain leadership in the region, it must lead the fight to roll back the Islamic State.”
And, at the same time, the illegal settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem are being expanded by Israel. And that’s a problem for who? Answer: The United States.
There you have it: The perfect “win-win” situation for Israel and the perfect “lose-lose” situation for the United States.
2
I would submit, and I'll bet its the perception across America, that Israel, their lobbyist AIPAC and Wall St CEOs have more of an influence on foreign policy positions with our representatives than the American people. Every administration that has had peace talks experienced settlement building while those talks were going on and to this day it never stops. Primitive religious fanatics control their government using mythological rationalizations from the Stone Age. Its been straining credibility and credulity for decades now for even reasonable Israelis. Nobody buys it anymore.
1
“But nothing can excuse Israel’s relentless pursuit of the very occupation that undermines it.”
Of course the Occupation is dumb politics, as it leads inexorably to the day (some 20 years in the future) when Israel must decide between remaining a Jewish or a democratic state, for it will then be impossible to remain both.
But it is not merely or ultimately dumb politics or dumb realpolitik . . . it is a violation of international law, which legitimatized Israel’s claim to all territory within the Green Line but is equally clear that she is not entitled to exercise dominion over one square inch of the land acquired post 1948. For those who have not been paying attention, the area within constitutes 73% of the land in the original British Mandate (a.k.a. Eretz Israel).
And that of course brings us right back to dumb politics, for her brazen contempt for international law, coupled with the gross disparity between Palestinian and Israeli deaths and casualties (see B’Tselem on this), has transformed Israel from the heroic David of the 50s and 60s to an imperial power pushing to see just how much of the remaining 27% she can subsume.
Of course the Occupation is dumb politics, as it leads inexorably to the day (some 20 years in the future) when Israel must decide between remaining a Jewish or a democratic state, for it will then be impossible to remain both.
But it is not merely or ultimately dumb politics or dumb realpolitik . . . it is a violation of international law, which legitimatized Israel’s claim to all territory within the Green Line but is equally clear that she is not entitled to exercise dominion over one square inch of the land acquired post 1948. For those who have not been paying attention, the area within constitutes 73% of the land in the original British Mandate (a.k.a. Eretz Israel).
And that of course brings us right back to dumb politics, for her brazen contempt for international law, coupled with the gross disparity between Palestinian and Israeli deaths and casualties (see B’Tselem on this), has transformed Israel from the heroic David of the 50s and 60s to an imperial power pushing to see just how much of the remaining 27% she can subsume.
2
It astounds me that, time and again, the Palestinians reject peace offers and yet somehow it is always up to Israel to do something more to make peace. Israel fully withdrew from Gaza and now has a terrorist state in its South. A similar outcome in Judea and Samaria would put terrorist rockets nine miles from Tel Aviv and within range of Ben-Gurion airport. Israelis live the realities of Palestinian terror everyday and, based on the Gaza pull out experiment, wisely know that Likud and Netanyahu, odious as he may be, will at least keep them safe by not giving away land to fanatics that only want to slaughter all Jews.
Where is the "P Street" that will work to build acceptance and peace with Israel in the Palestinian (and broader Arab-Muslim) world? Where are the Palestinian leaders that will assure that all of the money the world sends to aid Palestinians actually goes to creating infrastructure and not terror tunnels, and does not fatten their own bank accounts like it does for Abbas and Arafat before him? Where are the breathless NY Times reporters that take the time to listen to the hate spewed on Palestinian TV in Arabic? Where are the NY Times columnists who will finally start barking up the right tree by demanding that Palestinians renounce terror and accept a Jewish state now so that they can have a Palestinian state now?
Where is the "P Street" that will work to build acceptance and peace with Israel in the Palestinian (and broader Arab-Muslim) world? Where are the Palestinian leaders that will assure that all of the money the world sends to aid Palestinians actually goes to creating infrastructure and not terror tunnels, and does not fatten their own bank accounts like it does for Abbas and Arafat before him? Where are the breathless NY Times reporters that take the time to listen to the hate spewed on Palestinian TV in Arabic? Where are the NY Times columnists who will finally start barking up the right tree by demanding that Palestinians renounce terror and accept a Jewish state now so that they can have a Palestinian state now?
11
The problem for Israel is that ethnic nationalism is "so last century" and theism - let alone theocracy - is "practically medieval" so its "image problem" is only going to get worse. Internationally, increasing numbers of modern enlightened "citizens of the world" - both ethnically Jewish and non-ethnically Jewish alike - who "could care less" (as you Americans say) about religions and ethnic distinctions will ask "Why Israel?" Thankfully - you see - superstition, ignorance and prejudice are curable. Of course their defenders are still many and powerful - so there's still hope for the worst inclinations of humanity and bad ideas I suppose.
Antisemitism is the main driver of "human rights"-based Israel bashing. People who never heard of the Rohingya (viciously persecuted Burmese Moslems) and have no thoughts about Chinese oppression of Tibetans cannot say enough about shortcomings in Israel's administration of a people who have struggled for a century to wipe Israel off the map. Of course there are shortcomings, of course a peace needs to be reached. But don't underestimate how infuriating it is to Europeans and others that the once submissive, defenseless Jews now have some power. It's not so different from the way some people react to Barak Obama.
9
Are you listening to yourself?
You just defended Israel's actions by saying their treatment of Palestinians is no worse than Burma's treatment of the Rohingya and China's treatment of the Tibetans.
No decent people defend Myanmar's junta or the genocidal Han Chinese in their behavior toward their oppressed minority populations.
You just threw Israel's treatment of Palestinians into the same bucket...then dared to accuse critics of being anti-Semitic!
Your comments are a much uglier indictment of Israel than anything Mr. Cohen would ever write.
You just defended Israel's actions by saying their treatment of Palestinians is no worse than Burma's treatment of the Rohingya and China's treatment of the Tibetans.
No decent people defend Myanmar's junta or the genocidal Han Chinese in their behavior toward their oppressed minority populations.
You just threw Israel's treatment of Palestinians into the same bucket...then dared to accuse critics of being anti-Semitic!
Your comments are a much uglier indictment of Israel than anything Mr. Cohen would ever write.
Indonesia is the key to the peaceful resolution of the Arab-Israeli conflict. Let me explain why. Israel needs iron clad guarantees that, upon withdrawal of the West Bank, the Bank will not become a launch pad for terrorist raids or missile attacks against Israel. Palestinians need iron clad guarantees that Israel will not reoccupy the West Bank in the future. Neither party can make those guarantees to the other.
The answer is to make the West Bank and Gaza a 100 year protectorate of another Muslim country. A country which will prevent any Palestinians from attacking Israel from the protectorate. A country which will defend the protectorate with its military from any Israeli incursions. What Arab country is able to offer these guarantees to both Israel and the Palestinians over the 100 years needed to allow cultural hostilities to die away? None of them. No Arab country can guarantee its own stability for that long.
Indonesia is a proud Muslim country with a long history of political stability. Indonesia, should it be asked, and should it choose, could govern and defend Palestinian lands. It could secure the borders with Israel and prevent any attacks against Israel. It could build up Palestinian governmental and educational institutions over the generations needed for hatred and mistrust from both Palestinians and Israelis to resolve.
The answer is to make the West Bank and Gaza a 100 year protectorate of another Muslim country. A country which will prevent any Palestinians from attacking Israel from the protectorate. A country which will defend the protectorate with its military from any Israeli incursions. What Arab country is able to offer these guarantees to both Israel and the Palestinians over the 100 years needed to allow cultural hostilities to die away? None of them. No Arab country can guarantee its own stability for that long.
Indonesia is a proud Muslim country with a long history of political stability. Indonesia, should it be asked, and should it choose, could govern and defend Palestinian lands. It could secure the borders with Israel and prevent any attacks against Israel. It could build up Palestinian governmental and educational institutions over the generations needed for hatred and mistrust from both Palestinians and Israelis to resolve.
As an American Jew born at the end of World War 2 I grew up seeing Israel as the one hope and defense of the Jewish people in a world that had just tried to abolish us. I no longer see that country as Israel. To me it has become Netanyahustan, another religiously dominated middle eastern autocracy.
2
It looks too often to me that Israel is racist and sexist. It seems as though as a country they have to choose - will they be a democracy? (or is that already decided that they are not?) I don't see how they can call themselves such when there is such disenfranchisement of both Palestinians & Arabs even within their borders. Then there are the issues for women and people of color. It is a sad state of affairs. And to the comment from the writer who said that "Muslims" created refugee camps - I say, if others take your land and will not let you return - are you not a refugee? Who are these Muslims who created refugee camps? Do they refer to those outside of Israel & Palestine (ex. the many in Jordan & Lebanon & other places for Syrians who have fled)?
1
Rabin understood one basic fact. When you are the occupier you will be forced to do ugly and horrible things which will change your character. It is so depressing to see Israel embrace the great occupier and single state strategy of a Netanyahu. He and his Likud Party have single handily turned Israel away from its democratic roots and changed its character and essence.
2
One of the main reasons Israel has an image problem is because people, like Cohen, keep repeating the tired old canard that the conflict is its own fault and if there is terrorism against Israeli it is because it just won't make peace. Here, Cohen won't even call it terrorism, using the term vigilantism(?) instead. As if before 1967, or even 1948, there was complete peace and tranquility. No Jews were attacked by Arabs, sure.
This is Israel's image problem, that it gets blamed for the attacks against it and even worse if it defends itself.
Let's say Cohen gets his wish and Israel completely vacated all of the territories and recognized a state of "Palestine" and so on. Does any one think for a second that there would be peace? Everyone knows it is just a matter of time before a repeat of what happened in Gaza takes place there. The fact, sad but true, is that the existence of any state of Israel is unacceptable to the best majority of Arabs in the Middle East.
This is Israel's image problem, that it gets blamed for the attacks against it and even worse if it defends itself.
Let's say Cohen gets his wish and Israel completely vacated all of the territories and recognized a state of "Palestine" and so on. Does any one think for a second that there would be peace? Everyone knows it is just a matter of time before a repeat of what happened in Gaza takes place there. The fact, sad but true, is that the existence of any state of Israel is unacceptable to the best majority of Arabs in the Middle East.
9
There is no benefit to Israel in further settlement activity. From the vantage of Israel's own self-interest, it only makes it harder for both Israelis and Palestinians to make the hard choices required in any serious peace negotiation. Any final agreement--if it ever comes--will contain bitter pills for both sides. The concept of greater Israel will go by the wayside and Jerusalem will have to be shared. Likewise, there will be no right of return and Palestinians will need to recognize Israel as the Jewish homeland. However unrealistic this might now seem in the end, people and nations usually do the only workable thing---after they have tried everything else.
2
HRW is known to distort facts and sees everything Israel does with a jaundiced eye. Israel is not building in areas it knows will eventually go to a Palestinian state, if that ever happens. However, it builds within areas Palestinians know Israel plans to keep in the advent of a peace deal, if that ever happens. Too many Palestinians, at least outwardly, insist on their state from the river to the sea, with no Israel. Along with outrageous anti-Semitism filling the airwaves, internet, and religious "sermons", you expect Israel to freeze all construction, even within the close by settlement blocs, forever? I think, Mr. Cohen, you are back to your one-sided diatribes that do not serve the truth.
9
I do not think Israel can be Jewish and Democratic. I do not believe a Democracy can be religiously based.
I wish the best for Israel and her people. I think it is time for the 'special bond' to end.
Israel and the US should part ways. We should still be friends with them but the flow of money and weapons needs to end.
I wish the best for Israel and her people. I think it is time for the 'special bond' to end.
Israel and the US should part ways. We should still be friends with them but the flow of money and weapons needs to end.
6
I said the same thing 10 years ago in a letter to the editor in the Marin Independent Journal in San Rafael California. I was vilified
for my comments.
How times have changed!
for my comments.
How times have changed!
1
I am fascinated to learn of Amna Farooqi, the "Pakistani-American Muslim elected to lead" ... "the campus branch of J Street, the liberal pro-Israel, pro-peace Jewish lobbying group".
This is the United States of America, that makes my chest swell with pride, and gives me hope for the future: accepting, inclusive, with open minds and hearts. The USA that understands that while we are free to segregate ourselves into implacably hostile camps, we must choose otherwise if we willy fully partake of the great blessings of American life.
This is the United States of America, that makes my chest swell with pride, and gives me hope for the future: accepting, inclusive, with open minds and hearts. The USA that understands that while we are free to segregate ourselves into implacably hostile camps, we must choose otherwise if we willy fully partake of the great blessings of American life.
1
I fail to understand how did the US not protest the calling of their ambassador a “little Jew boy”. At the very least, he should have been recalled and/or the Israeli ambassador to the US declared persona non grata.
And further: if Netanyahu did not distance himself from the insult, Ambassador Shapiro should have called him out. If Shapiro were the winner in this duel, he could not have been protected from prosecution in Israel by the diplomatic immunity.
A dueling US Ambassador would have been a fine revival of the gentleman's code of honor of the 1700s and 1800s.
And further: if Netanyahu did not distance himself from the insult, Ambassador Shapiro should have called him out. If Shapiro were the winner in this duel, he could not have been protected from prosecution in Israel by the diplomatic immunity.
A dueling US Ambassador would have been a fine revival of the gentleman's code of honor of the 1700s and 1800s.
CORRECTION: it should read "would have been protected from prosecution ..."
Sorry.
Sorry.
Mr. Cohen - If a Syrian refugee could go to Israel, would they choose Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt?
WHy has Hamas and Hezbelloh sworn to kill every Jew everywhere?
And, why can't you as a Jew visit certain countries?
WHy has Hamas and Hezbelloh sworn to kill every Jew everywhere?
And, why can't you as a Jew visit certain countries?
5
These comments are typical of the discussion - many American Jewish people arguing reasonably for better policies and better behavior by Israel and then a subsegment shouting them down - attacking with vacuous arguments that "it's the Palestinians own fault" - and citing a very small minority of Palestinians who have asserted Israel doesn't have a right to exist to justify terrible behavior. Thank goodness America is not attacked because someone can find a quote to an extreme minority and then say "well, you see, they were evil so we did whatever we wanted." Time for the discussion to be more civil - stop attacking anyone who calls for reason or fairness - and time to focus on the real issues and not cling to very selective instances of behavior that "justify" terrible behavior by one of America's allies against an oppressed minority
3
Reading through Cohen's article and skimming through the comments I am amused about Cohen's 'Israel's image problem'. As if this is indeed what worries Israelis today.
When one lives in this region, the view to political issues is less idealistic and more pragmatic. What may seem good and just from afar, might be a night mare if you're the one living it in reality.
And what is the reality of 2015? Not mentioned at all in Cohen's article is the fact that the 'Palestinian society' if there is one, and the 'Palestinian Authority' are collapsing. Not in a big volatile collapse but in a gradual dis-integration. This is reality. It is seen today with surveys affirming that Hamas and Hizb al Tahrir would win, if elections were held. It is evident by the lack of control the PA has over actions of its own people, and by the hostility of many Palestinians to their own authority. It was even argued by Abu Mazen himself, that the authority is collapsing and that ISIS could take over.
The Palestinians are headed towards becoming another Syria, a world of internal bloody civil wars among radical groups, which is what the Arab world today is. This is a fact. There will be no Palestinian state in the near future even if mother Theresa headed the coalition.
I suggest Cohen and the New York Times have a reality check.
When one lives in this region, the view to political issues is less idealistic and more pragmatic. What may seem good and just from afar, might be a night mare if you're the one living it in reality.
And what is the reality of 2015? Not mentioned at all in Cohen's article is the fact that the 'Palestinian society' if there is one, and the 'Palestinian Authority' are collapsing. Not in a big volatile collapse but in a gradual dis-integration. This is reality. It is seen today with surveys affirming that Hamas and Hizb al Tahrir would win, if elections were held. It is evident by the lack of control the PA has over actions of its own people, and by the hostility of many Palestinians to their own authority. It was even argued by Abu Mazen himself, that the authority is collapsing and that ISIS could take over.
The Palestinians are headed towards becoming another Syria, a world of internal bloody civil wars among radical groups, which is what the Arab world today is. This is a fact. There will be no Palestinian state in the near future even if mother Theresa headed the coalition.
I suggest Cohen and the New York Times have a reality check.
8
Do you think a prosperous, free Palestinian people would want to live under Hamas control?
All the radicalization of the Palestinian people proves is that occupation and oppression breeds desperation.
All the radicalization of the Palestinian people proves is that occupation and oppression breeds desperation.
"You can’t say you support two states if you don’t take a clear position, for example, against funding activities over the Green Line.”
Makes sense in general, but the specifics need to be clarified. For example, would that include not supporting activities in the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem's Old City? Or the Western Wall?
Makes sense in general, but the specifics need to be clarified. For example, would that include not supporting activities in the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem's Old City? Or the Western Wall?
1
It is not an image problem, It is a reality problem.
Your reportage on what Israel is doing the Palestinians and Netanyahu's bigoted remarks against the American Jewish Ambassador does you credit, Roger.
But the reality of Israel is now loathsome and detestable.
Your reportage on what Israel is doing the Palestinians and Netanyahu's bigoted remarks against the American Jewish Ambassador does you credit, Roger.
But the reality of Israel is now loathsome and detestable.
2
How genteel; 'Israel's Image issue'. Did Mr. Cohen notice the de facto pernicious genocide that Israel is perpetuating on the Palestinians and their lands, especially the unchecked vigilante terrorism perpetuated by the settler movement? Anywhere else in the world, Africa, the Middle East, China, it would be genocide. In Israel it is an "Image Issue'. How long does the United States want to pretend that Israel is not practicing a form of genocide? And, at our expense, purely for political ends. This country must immediately cease to blindly support Israel and cut all economic support and ties, especially the phony 'Made in Israel' products made in the Occupied Territories.
2
When good people perceive threats to their existence they elect not so good people (America).
I quote Yitzhak Rabin: You make peace with your enemies, not with your friends.
There are several peace agreements signed between Israel and the Palestinians: The Camp David accord, the Oslo accord, Olmert's accord, the Geneva accord. They all contain essentially the same thing.
Maybe Netanyahu does not want to be assassinated, and sure the settlers believe God gave them the holy land. The Palestinians will always want more. Eventually somebody will have to make peace, otherwise Israel will disappear into the dustbins of history. (With my children and grandchildren...)
There are several peace agreements signed between Israel and the Palestinians: The Camp David accord, the Oslo accord, Olmert's accord, the Geneva accord. They all contain essentially the same thing.
Maybe Netanyahu does not want to be assassinated, and sure the settlers believe God gave them the holy land. The Palestinians will always want more. Eventually somebody will have to make peace, otherwise Israel will disappear into the dustbins of history. (With my children and grandchildren...)
Take a good look, Israel is a excellent case study on how rigid conservationism and religious fanaticism can undermine what was once a poster child for Democracy,Freedom and Justice.
2
It's revealing how many commenters change the subject in their remarks.
Instead of talking about the incessant intrusion and expansion of Jewish settlements in Palestinian territory, the writers talk about 70 years of conflict and the initial need for Palestinians to "lay down their arms".
This dishonest tactic is old and obvious. Netanyahu and his tea party supporters have dirty hands, and people of good will can see the damage those hands are doing.
Instead of talking about the incessant intrusion and expansion of Jewish settlements in Palestinian territory, the writers talk about 70 years of conflict and the initial need for Palestinians to "lay down their arms".
This dishonest tactic is old and obvious. Netanyahu and his tea party supporters have dirty hands, and people of good will can see the damage those hands are doing.
4
Once again, Roger and many others from the anti-Israel crowd always feel that when there are problems between the Israelis and Palestinians, it's always Israel that is to be blame while ignoring what the Palestinians are doing. Just saying that Israel has an image problem is just ignoring the fact that they are living with a group that doesn't want to see them exist at all. How exactly do you make peace with someone who just wants to see you dead and nothing else? Every chance there was for the Palestinians to have a state of their own, their own leaders rejected it rather than try to work with it. As for the settlements, they were placed in lands the Palestinians didn't even touch for decades, but they only became an issue when Jewish groups decided to make use of that. Let's not forget that when Israel withdrew all settlements from the Gaza Strip, Hamas attacked them shortly after by launching qassam rockets from time to time. As a matter of fact, they are even continuing to go after Israeli civilians right now with random shootings and stabbings, and I can't believe how some try to shove this under the rug. I have always found it ironic that any other country that is taking action to stop terrorism is praised, but when it's Israel, they are condemned for doing such. If there really are those who care about the Palestinians, they should convince them to stop using terrorism against Israeli civilians rather than to encourage, because only with that it will stop.
11
By calling anyone critical of current Israeli right-wing policies "anti-Israel" you gradually make it so until a majority of the politically engaged in America will indeed be anti-Israel.
Visualize an Israel without American largess and international legal immunity.
Do you like what you see?
Visualize an Israel without American largess and international legal immunity.
Do you like what you see?
If you put yourself in an Israeli's shoes, I think you would
be a bit more reluctant to give up territory.
I would support giving all people in the West Bank equal legal rights as Israeli's.
But I would not relinquish military control of the West Bank. Way too dangerous, especially now.
Imagine having Hamas in Jerusalem. Are you kidding?
be a bit more reluctant to give up territory.
I would support giving all people in the West Bank equal legal rights as Israeli's.
But I would not relinquish military control of the West Bank. Way too dangerous, especially now.
Imagine having Hamas in Jerusalem. Are you kidding?
8
In the Unites States, Israel seems to be given every very entitlement there is and preferred status tn everything - trade, commerce, the most modern and sophisticated military equipment, economic aid and our precious vote in the Security Council - unconditionally !!! We overlook their breaking of International Laws and their clandestine nuclear capability. The Israelis have the gumption to try interfere in our foreign policy, insult our President and systematically mow down the Palestinians on almost genocidal scale. We overlook and overlook their trespasses over and over. Now their blustering Leader Netanyahu is throwing a fit because goods made on stolen land in the West Bank are not deemed 'Made in Israel'. The audacity is simply amazing. You 'steal' land, forcing out the original people, set up factories under the Israeli label. Israel is simply WRONG and we, Americans are even more wrong by turning a blind eye to each and everyone of Israel's transgressions. We are equally culpable as Israel.
5
NI.........good for you....just when I thought I was drowning in half truths regarding Israeli behavior, you come forth with this candid and forceful declaration....on behalf of all the other readers who agree with me, thank you very much!
1
The Jewish establishment organizations, namely AIPAC, have sidelined all moderate pro Israel groups such as J Street. This hS an extremely negative influence on Us policy regarding the Israel Palestine conflict. Until this changes, and it is highly unlikely if Hillary Clinton is elected, ( as for an elected Republican administration, forget it) Israel' policies will continue to alienate more and more American Jews. For many of us it is profoundly dispiriting to see developments in Israel and its rapid slide into becoming an illiberal state, more of an ethnocracy than a secular democracy. This US policy of no action in response to every provocative action taken by Israel does not bode well for the future of Israel or regional stability.
3
This is not the Israel that I learned about in Temple when I grew up in the 1960's. The Israel today is becoming a right wing theocracy, racist and brutal, ruled by people who cannot see the long term. If, in contravention of International Law and virtual worldwide consensus, Israel succeeds in expropriating the West Bank, East Jerusalem and Gaza into "Eretz Israel"---what happens next?
Will the 4.75 million Palestinians be accorded full citizen rights--including the right to vote--or will they be treated as non-entities much as what occurred in South Africa?
Under a single state solution, in 20 years, it is projected that Jews will become a minority in Israel. How can Israel survive as both a Jewish state and a democracy? Israel will eventually become a Muslim state unless they disengage from the Occupied Territories.
Or are their plans for mass expulsions of Palestinians?
Will the 4.75 million Palestinians be accorded full citizen rights--including the right to vote--or will they be treated as non-entities much as what occurred in South Africa?
Under a single state solution, in 20 years, it is projected that Jews will become a minority in Israel. How can Israel survive as both a Jewish state and a democracy? Israel will eventually become a Muslim state unless they disengage from the Occupied Territories.
Or are their plans for mass expulsions of Palestinians?
2
What people do not seem to understand is that Zionism is largely a success, its goal being to "normalize" the position of Jews in the world. Now, as with Christians, Muslims, Hindus, and Buddhists, there is a country run by venal, self-serving Jews. Welcome to the club of ethnic and religious nationalism.
Of course complete normalization has not occurred yet, inasmuch as Israel is held to a much higher standard than is Russia, Saudi Arabia, India, or Myannmar. I'm open to other explanations but, until those arrive, it is hard not to conclude that that has something to do with the fact that Israel is run by Jews.
In addition, at least in America, Jews are expected to have strong, mostly polarized opinions about Israel in a way that other Americans are not expected to become passionately engaged with other countries run by people of their religious or ethnic heritage.
Of course complete normalization has not occurred yet, inasmuch as Israel is held to a much higher standard than is Russia, Saudi Arabia, India, or Myannmar. I'm open to other explanations but, until those arrive, it is hard not to conclude that that has something to do with the fact that Israel is run by Jews.
In addition, at least in America, Jews are expected to have strong, mostly polarized opinions about Israel in a way that other Americans are not expected to become passionately engaged with other countries run by people of their religious or ethnic heritage.
5
There is, in fact, a "Palestinian" State in Gaza. Their are no Jews living in it, neither "settlers" nor soldiers. Israeli law does not apply. It engages in international relations with Israel, in that its "citizens" enter Israel for, among other things, medical attention. It engages in "commerce" with Israel, receiving, among other things, water, electricity, and building materials. The latter, it appears are being used to construct tunnels for military mining and as sally ports to attack Israel. It is self governing. No Israeli law, neither civil nor military, applies within it It is in a perpetual declared war with the State of Israel, and is currently, with allies, rearming itself. It is a paradigm of a second Arab state in the former "Palestine" mandatory territory carved out from Ottoman territory. "Occupation" of the West Bank virtually ceased prior to the "Second Intifada," in which at least two thousand Israelis were murdered, a terrorist wave unleashed by the "President" of the Palestinian Authority, an entity agreed to in to in the Oslo accords. The current administrative status of the Arab portions of the West Bank was and unfortunately is now, necessitated by a continued terrorist turn by its current kleptocratic leadership. It can only change by maintained cessation of terrorism and murder. This is, sadly, not likely in the near future. The so-called opinion of some deluded "American Jews," imagining themselves safe, is irrelevant.
Arthur Taub MD PhD
Arthur Taub MD PhD
9
What do we tell a Palestinian born in Haifa, whose family goes back generations, who fled Haifa as a child with his family in fear in 1948, who can no longer be a citizen of Haifa?
What do we say when he reminds us that Zion is the Hebrew word for Jerusalem and the Zionist movement started in 1890 with the intent to takeover some of the Arab land?
What do we say when he reminds us of the Sykes-Picot agreement and Balfour Declaration during WWI?
What do we say when he asks why only Palestine was made a British protectorate after WWI when all the rest were allowed to be countries?
What do we say when he asks why, when the British abandoned their mandate, didn’t the Jews work with the Arabs to create the country of Palestine to live and work side by side with the Arabs as they had been doing during the previous sixty years of immigration to Palestine instead of unilaterally creating Israel?
And what do we tell him when he reminds us that, while he can no longer be a citizen of Haifa, a Jew born in the US or anywhere in the world has the right to be a citizen in Haifa?
The Jews talk about their homeland. He would like to return to his homeland.
By now, the majority of Palestinians, recognize that Israel is not going away. But Israel wants to exist as a Jewish state. This will be difficult with either the two state solution or the one state solution.
What do we say when he reminds us that Zion is the Hebrew word for Jerusalem and the Zionist movement started in 1890 with the intent to takeover some of the Arab land?
What do we say when he reminds us of the Sykes-Picot agreement and Balfour Declaration during WWI?
What do we say when he asks why only Palestine was made a British protectorate after WWI when all the rest were allowed to be countries?
What do we say when he asks why, when the British abandoned their mandate, didn’t the Jews work with the Arabs to create the country of Palestine to live and work side by side with the Arabs as they had been doing during the previous sixty years of immigration to Palestine instead of unilaterally creating Israel?
And what do we tell him when he reminds us that, while he can no longer be a citizen of Haifa, a Jew born in the US or anywhere in the world has the right to be a citizen in Haifa?
The Jews talk about their homeland. He would like to return to his homeland.
By now, the majority of Palestinians, recognize that Israel is not going away. But Israel wants to exist as a Jewish state. This will be difficult with either the two state solution or the one state solution.
4
I am an American Jew (though I grew up a religious orthodox Zionist in Israel and attended settler rabbinical colleges) I speak fluent Hebrew and know the settler ideology first hand.
I believe that the secular democracy that Ben gurion envisioned was a legitimate state.
The current orthodox coalition of settlers and ultra Orthodox Jews who are dictating expansion policies and personal status issues have made the state racist and illegitimate. If either group was the one trying to declare a Jewish state in 1948, the UN would have never recognized it ..
For all you non Jewish readers, an analogy would be saying that a Christian state is legitimate but a KKK Christian hate group cannot create a legitimate state ... There are diff types of Jews ... Etc
I believe that the secular democracy that Ben gurion envisioned was a legitimate state.
The current orthodox coalition of settlers and ultra Orthodox Jews who are dictating expansion policies and personal status issues have made the state racist and illegitimate. If either group was the one trying to declare a Jewish state in 1948, the UN would have never recognized it ..
For all you non Jewish readers, an analogy would be saying that a Christian state is legitimate but a KKK Christian hate group cannot create a legitimate state ... There are diff types of Jews ... Etc
6
The struggle for land and resources is the main source of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Since the fall of the Soviet Union Russian and Eastern European Jews emigrated en masse to Israel.
Netanyahu sees a danger of a one-state solution - the growth of the Arab population that might outdo that of the Israeli.
A year ago, while he was in Paris to take part in a protest march after the Charlie Hebdo shooting, he urged French Jews to emigrate to Israel. As Naftali Bennett once said his country was tiny. So land grab is the only means for Israel to absorb the huge number of Jews from Europe.
It's also clear that Netanyahu is a racist. He prefers ashkenazi to sephardic Jews. The latter often face discrimination, because of their skin colour.
Netanyahu sees a danger of a one-state solution - the growth of the Arab population that might outdo that of the Israeli.
A year ago, while he was in Paris to take part in a protest march after the Charlie Hebdo shooting, he urged French Jews to emigrate to Israel. As Naftali Bennett once said his country was tiny. So land grab is the only means for Israel to absorb the huge number of Jews from Europe.
It's also clear that Netanyahu is a racist. He prefers ashkenazi to sephardic Jews. The latter often face discrimination, because of their skin colour.
4
In a perfect world, maybe, heck, sure. In the current world, a two state solution is dead, and remains dead, until a legitimate, unified, non-violent, Palestinian state actor/partner emerges that recognizes and supports Israel's continued existence as a Jewish democracy in the middle east. Compare west bank Palestinians and their quality of life to the Syrian refugees who are refused safe haven by their gulf state Arab kin while being slaughtered by their countrymen. This isn't moral relativism, its reality. When the Arab world gets its act together, joins the 21st century, re-writes the Sykes-Picot borders that shackle those failed states, diversifies its economies, addresses its water and population problems, etc., the Palestinian problem will be more easily solved.
6
There is no ¨Palestinian problem". There is an Israeli problem. As D123 notes the demographic transformation related to the arriving settler population means the Israel created in 1948, itself an illegitimate act, has been largely swallowed by a different social order. Until that social order comes to terms with the significance and impact of its intrusiveness on the prior inhabitants of the region Palestinian resistance, though apparently pointless and often presumably manipulated, is quite understandable. Attributing responsibility for this to the Arab world that had no voice in establishing current boundaries nor establishing Israel is like blaming acne for the cancer consuming your intestines.
When somebody resorts to justifying the treatment of an occupied people by saying refugees from a genocidal hot-war have it worse, their cause has lost.
A people can oppress another with advanced weapons systems given to them by foreign patrons, but God help them when their patron tires of propping up tyranny.
That day is rapidly approaching.
Good luck Israel!
A people can oppress another with advanced weapons systems given to them by foreign patrons, but God help them when their patron tires of propping up tyranny.
That day is rapidly approaching.
Good luck Israel!
"Former aide to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu"? since no sane official in Israel would such a thing , Roger had to turn every stone (I would guess on FB) to find some quote, of some "Former aide", to get legitimacy for his agenda . A very poor trick indeed. Mr. Cohen is on a mission, and facts will not stop him. He wants America's Jewry and Government to force Israel to "End the occupation" (So, so simple!) and than Peace will come on earth and all leaving beings. I would hope people are a little more sophisticated than that. I would urge Mr. Cohen and his disciples to look at Gaza, Syria, Lybia etc.. and to keep in mind that it is the IDF that keeps Mahmud Abbas on his throne (Because in the middle east the only choice is between bad and worse)- and after keeping all this in mind, try to imagine what will happen to the citizens of Israel once they withdraw from the West Bank.
7
I don't disagree with anything Mr Cohen says, but it misses the essential heart of the matter. For the Israeli public to support a humanistic, democratic solution to ending the West Bank occupation it must believe that it would lead to a peaceful end of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. It doesn't. And it has good reason to not believe it would end the conflict. Had the Israeli evacuation of Gaza lead to peaceful co operation instead of rockets and Hamas it could have been the template for the West Bank. Sadly, with a Palestinian Authority leadership that is corrupt, inept and unwilling or unable to stem the hatred and support reconciliation, there is every reason to believe that Palestinians on the West Bank would elect a Hamas government bent on more war. I wonder whether a solution can ever be forged by the parties themselves.
5
I'm an American Jew who speaks fluent Hebrew, lived in Israel, raised orthodox Zionist but now considers himself 100% pure American reform Jew who subscribes to western democratic values... I've been to the settlements and even studied in settlement rabbinical colleges before becoming more western (so I know a thing or two about the conflict).
When Israel was founded, it was considered a legitimate state bc it was suppose to be 100% secular and democratic. The founders were atheist and passed certain laws that intended to enshrine western values into the law of the land.
There are two groups that were never suppose to be part of the equation: 1) Haredi ultra Orthodox Jews and 2) religious Zionist settlers.
Prior to 1948, Orthodox Jews banned Zionism. The idea of a religious Zionist was an oxymoron. They were suppose to be a minority fringe group that gets to tag along not a legitimate group that dictates foreign policy. If the settlements were on the table in 1948, the UN would have never recognized Israel full stop.
The Haredim kicked and screamed for the state not to exist. They in turn managed to gain certain powers that should NEVER be given in a democratic state such as Jewish status issues. No state on earth can be called a legitimate state which subjects it's citizens to orthodox conversions to be allowed to marry, divorce or be buried in a state monopolized burial system.
When Israel was founded, it was considered a legitimate state bc it was suppose to be 100% secular and democratic. The founders were atheist and passed certain laws that intended to enshrine western values into the law of the land.
There are two groups that were never suppose to be part of the equation: 1) Haredi ultra Orthodox Jews and 2) religious Zionist settlers.
Prior to 1948, Orthodox Jews banned Zionism. The idea of a religious Zionist was an oxymoron. They were suppose to be a minority fringe group that gets to tag along not a legitimate group that dictates foreign policy. If the settlements were on the table in 1948, the UN would have never recognized Israel full stop.
The Haredim kicked and screamed for the state not to exist. They in turn managed to gain certain powers that should NEVER be given in a democratic state such as Jewish status issues. No state on earth can be called a legitimate state which subjects it's citizens to orthodox conversions to be allowed to marry, divorce or be buried in a state monopolized burial system.
6
Are you saying Israel is a theocracy? What a farce. How many shops are illegally open on Shabat, how many buses run in Tel Aviv and Haifa? How many take to the beach on Saturday? Thanks for discounting Orthodox Jews, in your "love" of all things Jewish. Sorry, but the very first Jews who came to Israel, to join those who remained since the exile, were proudly religious. Time to review your history.
4
The NYT bias is immediately obvious when it refers to J Street as "pro Israel." It is not. It is pro-Left, and as Ms. Farooqi says, "To be pro-Israel is being seen as more and more of a right wing thing."
This is not because Israel's status as a bastion of civilization in a sea of violent and vicious barbarism has changed; rather it is because the Left in America has changed. It used to be that only a fringe (mostly Communist) of the Left was anti-Western Civilization, anti-US and (though a bit later) anti-Israel. Now the mainstream Left, of which J Street is one example, has taken the positions that used to relegated to the far Left.
Farooqi, based on this editorial, is a Left propagandist -- suggesting that talking to people at Hillel was talking to people "who did not believe there was an occupation." Everyone knows there is an occupation, including people at Hillel. The issue is not, as Ms. Farooqi seems to think, whether there is an occuaption; the issue is WHY is there an occupation. The reason for the occupation is that Israel is surrounded by attacking barbarians, most of whose primary political goal is killing Jews. There was no occupation before 1967, and Israel's neighbors were as intent on killing Jews then as they are now. If ending the occupation would end the intent to kill Jews, the vast majority of Israelis would demand withdrawal (as was tried with Gaza, from which Israel has been repeatedly attacked since its withdrawal).
This is not because Israel's status as a bastion of civilization in a sea of violent and vicious barbarism has changed; rather it is because the Left in America has changed. It used to be that only a fringe (mostly Communist) of the Left was anti-Western Civilization, anti-US and (though a bit later) anti-Israel. Now the mainstream Left, of which J Street is one example, has taken the positions that used to relegated to the far Left.
Farooqi, based on this editorial, is a Left propagandist -- suggesting that talking to people at Hillel was talking to people "who did not believe there was an occupation." Everyone knows there is an occupation, including people at Hillel. The issue is not, as Ms. Farooqi seems to think, whether there is an occuaption; the issue is WHY is there an occupation. The reason for the occupation is that Israel is surrounded by attacking barbarians, most of whose primary political goal is killing Jews. There was no occupation before 1967, and Israel's neighbors were as intent on killing Jews then as they are now. If ending the occupation would end the intent to kill Jews, the vast majority of Israelis would demand withdrawal (as was tried with Gaza, from which Israel has been repeatedly attacked since its withdrawal).
6
Well said!
1
Whatever rationalization a of Israeli illiberalism lets you sleep at night...
Palestinians have, according to internal surveys, been against a two state solution for some time. The solution-according to these polls-is destruction of the Israeli state. Israeli polls say that Israeli majorities have supported a two state solution for some time, though it's declining. It is not good strategy for the Israeli government to even discuss this solution with an unwilling party. To criticize Israel for that is reckless. It is not the policies of Israel that are at fault here. It is the unwillingness of Palestininian leaders to reject a violent solution. Israel is a secular (majority) democracy that wants peace. The Palestinians are substantially driven by a religious fervor that wants the Jews out as a matter of religion. The vast majority want that. Hamas' "elected" status as the defacto government in Gaza is a falsified narrative. They obtained their status by force. So stop believing this narrative about Israel. Israel, contrary to what you have reported-DOES in fact go after right wing terrorists. The PA and Hamas worships theirs and never goes after them. Perhaps Israel could be more vigilent. But PA and Hamas actually never decry their violence-sometimes they do in English, but never in Arabic. What surprises me, is the constant anti-Israel harangue that fails to condemn far more serious wrongs in the middle east as though only Jews/Israelis need to be held to any standard. Assad, ISIS, Iran, Hezbolah-acceptible to liberals?
5
“Why do you focus on tiny Israel for criticism when it is just trying to survive in such a hostile neighborhood and when there are so many worse actors out there you should be focusing on?” This question is ubiquitous in most commentary on articles like this one of Mr. Cohen
At its core, the answer is a simple one: Israel is not “out there;” it is “in here.” Israel is the United States…the United States is Israel. As Israel’s supporters on Capital Hill say, “there is no daylight between us!” And who would argue that any state within the Union exercises a fraction of the power over US foreign policy exercised by the 51st?
UN votes..tax free millions for the Settlements...1000's of American Settlers...war making...
The Sheldon Adelsons assure that “no daylight” peeps through the relationship. And AIPAC is there to assure that any “daylight” which does develop is extinguished, regardless of Israel’s actions.
We are one. Israel’s legacy is/will be the American Legacy. But we have enough injustices in our own history - and enough ongoing struggles to address them. We do not profit by adding the legacy of Israel’s on-going ethnic cleansing.
We cannot address all the ills of the world and all that multitude of “bad actors” from the original question above;but those actions which are taking place within the 51st state require that we either embrace them or disassociate ourselves from them. Either way, a large share of the consequences will be borne by us.
At its core, the answer is a simple one: Israel is not “out there;” it is “in here.” Israel is the United States…the United States is Israel. As Israel’s supporters on Capital Hill say, “there is no daylight between us!” And who would argue that any state within the Union exercises a fraction of the power over US foreign policy exercised by the 51st?
UN votes..tax free millions for the Settlements...1000's of American Settlers...war making...
The Sheldon Adelsons assure that “no daylight” peeps through the relationship. And AIPAC is there to assure that any “daylight” which does develop is extinguished, regardless of Israel’s actions.
We are one. Israel’s legacy is/will be the American Legacy. But we have enough injustices in our own history - and enough ongoing struggles to address them. We do not profit by adding the legacy of Israel’s on-going ethnic cleansing.
We cannot address all the ills of the world and all that multitude of “bad actors” from the original question above;but those actions which are taking place within the 51st state require that we either embrace them or disassociate ourselves from them. Either way, a large share of the consequences will be borne by us.
6
The daylight is growing!
Israel best get right with international norms of conduct before the Boomers are all dead and the US body politic steps away from the Israeli right. Being a client state of Russia or China is a lot less glamorous and forgiving than being a bratty, spoiled child of an America that just wants to be Israel's best friend.
Israel best get right with international norms of conduct before the Boomers are all dead and the US body politic steps away from the Israeli right. Being a client state of Russia or China is a lot less glamorous and forgiving than being a bratty, spoiled child of an America that just wants to be Israel's best friend.
You state that "Israel confiscates Palestinian land, forcibly displaces Palestinians, restricts their freedom of movement, precludes them from building in all but 1 percent of the area of the West Bank under Israeli administrative control, and strictly limits their access to water and electricity.” Even if these accusations were true, they pale in comparison to the human rights violations and political abuses of both Fatah and Hamas ever since they let Arafat back into the country.
More importantly, before 1967, nobody seemed to care that so-called "Palestinians" were occupied by Jordan and Egypt. Before the Intifada, Palestinians had a quality of life far better than their neighbors in Egypt or Jordan, but sadly they followed their power-hungry leaders into war with Israel instead of choosing co-existence.
Lastly, it's pretty clear for more than a decade now that the majority of Jews moving to Israel are religious Orthodox and the majority of those leaving Israel are secular, so as far as American Jewish youth disaffected with Israel, chances are they're not moving to the Jewish state any time in the future.
More importantly, before 1967, nobody seemed to care that so-called "Palestinians" were occupied by Jordan and Egypt. Before the Intifada, Palestinians had a quality of life far better than their neighbors in Egypt or Jordan, but sadly they followed their power-hungry leaders into war with Israel instead of choosing co-existence.
Lastly, it's pretty clear for more than a decade now that the majority of Jews moving to Israel are religious Orthodox and the majority of those leaving Israel are secular, so as far as American Jewish youth disaffected with Israel, chances are they're not moving to the Jewish state any time in the future.
3
I am not sure that Palestinian leaders have an obligation to cease incitement and promote moderation. Palestinians have lived under occupation for over two decades and the evidence that Israel does not give a hoot about a two state solution is so evident, it's a smoke screen for avoiding stronger action against Israel if anybody still purports to believe it. If the US were solely interested in a democratic and just solution, instead of one sanctioned by Israel's lobby, it would have placed sanctions on Israel a long time ago. or eliminated military or any other assistance. That surely would have gotten Israel's attention. But it surely is much easier to harp on about Russia and others than about a place where we actually have the influence to change the situation.
24
The West Bank is 5655 km2. According to HRW, Israel's "fast growing settlements" including businesses and farms take up 2.9% of the West Bank. So, after 49 years, Israel has taken over less than 3% of the land in the middle east. At this rate, they might take over the whole place by the year 3700. The Israelis have offered the other 97% to the Palestinians, to add to the 99% of the land in the middle east ruled by Arabs. The Palestinians said 'no'. The reason being that to obtain the title to the west bank, the Palestinians must be willing to make peace. They aren't.
If the author feels that Israel has "an image problem" perhaps it is because people like the author never mention the actual facts. Israel has tried to make peace with the Palestinians after the Palestinians and their Arab brethren's failed genocidal (by their own words) wars in 1948 and 67. But the Palestinians want land for war, not peace, just look at Gazaq. And the Palestinians can count on people like the author criticizing only Israel, not the Palestinians.
If the author feels that Israel has "an image problem" perhaps it is because people like the author never mention the actual facts. Israel has tried to make peace with the Palestinians after the Palestinians and their Arab brethren's failed genocidal (by their own words) wars in 1948 and 67. But the Palestinians want land for war, not peace, just look at Gazaq. And the Palestinians can count on people like the author criticizing only Israel, not the Palestinians.
9
It's the best 3% and its arrayed to slice and dice and Balkanize Palestinian Territories.
Theft is theft and it rarely goes unpunished indefinitely.
Good luck with that!
Theft is theft and it rarely goes unpunished indefinitely.
Good luck with that!
After the horrors of WWII, a sympathy backlash created the state of Israel. At that time, it seemed necessary to protect the Jewish people against the kind of anti-Semitism that was so glaringly exposed by the hatreds of war.
But 70 years later the bigotry has subsided to a great extent and a nation based on religion is increasingly seen to be antithetical to democratic ideals. Perhaps the Israeli right digs in because on some level they know they are defending an idea that has outlived its usefulness. Already we are seeing much internal conflict in Israel over this basic divide. There are trying times ahead for the nation’s people.
But 70 years later the bigotry has subsided to a great extent and a nation based on religion is increasingly seen to be antithetical to democratic ideals. Perhaps the Israeli right digs in because on some level they know they are defending an idea that has outlived its usefulness. Already we are seeing much internal conflict in Israel over this basic divide. There are trying times ahead for the nation’s people.
2
Unfortunately, Israel has ceased to be a partner to America.
Netanyahu conspired with the extremists in the GOP to attempt to humiliate our president and force American foreign policy to align with his petulant rants. Israelis celebrate the release of a spy they bought to seek out our most sensitive information. Netanyahu panicked during his last campaign and admitted that he would never permit a Palestinian state, despite promises to the contrary to both the US and the UN, and he has selected rabidly conservative ministers to his cabinet. The illegal settlements continue to expand despite global outrage and Israel spits in the face of democracy and human rights by their consignment of Palestinians to a barely-tolerated servant class.
Yet our government, supposedly dedicated to equal rights and democratic principles, continues to prop up this dysfunctional country.
Israel is in a dangerous neighborhood, but that doesn't entitle it to behave like a baddest drug dealer on the meanest corner. Nor does it obligate US taxpayers to fund it's increasingly "unjust, unlawful, immoral [and] self-defeating" choices.
The US should back out and let Israel stand or fall on its own. Perhaps then the Israeli government would be forced to adopt a more sustainable approach.
Netanyahu conspired with the extremists in the GOP to attempt to humiliate our president and force American foreign policy to align with his petulant rants. Israelis celebrate the release of a spy they bought to seek out our most sensitive information. Netanyahu panicked during his last campaign and admitted that he would never permit a Palestinian state, despite promises to the contrary to both the US and the UN, and he has selected rabidly conservative ministers to his cabinet. The illegal settlements continue to expand despite global outrage and Israel spits in the face of democracy and human rights by their consignment of Palestinians to a barely-tolerated servant class.
Yet our government, supposedly dedicated to equal rights and democratic principles, continues to prop up this dysfunctional country.
Israel is in a dangerous neighborhood, but that doesn't entitle it to behave like a baddest drug dealer on the meanest corner. Nor does it obligate US taxpayers to fund it's increasingly "unjust, unlawful, immoral [and] self-defeating" choices.
The US should back out and let Israel stand or fall on its own. Perhaps then the Israeli government would be forced to adopt a more sustainable approach.
5
There can never be peace for Israel until the Palestinians are willing to accept Israel as a legitimate country. They don't want a two state solution, they want only one Arab state in its place. Anything else mentioned in the article is a distraction from the real issues. Nobody, except Jews, complained during the time from 1948 till 1967 that Jordan illegally held the land that was designated as Israel by the UN.
The only reason the Palestinians are frustrated is that they are held hostage by their Arab neighbors. They were not allowed to assimilate as others who have left their homes. They were forced into "refugee camps" where they have remained for 66 years supported by the UN. Why do they alone have refugee status after 66 when all others lose that status after 5? Why are they alone being supported by the UN? These people are not refugees, they are the great grandchildren of those who left. They have grown up in the towns which people falsely refer to as refugee camps when they are not.
They are being incited to cause mayhem in Israel by Hamas to cover its own failings. It is not Israel's fault that they live in their current condition. It is the fault of the neighboring Arabs, Hamas and Fatah which steals money meant for the inhabitants of the West Bank and Gaza. Israel left Gaza in 2007. It is a hotbed for terrorism. They can't afford to make that mistake again.
The only reason the Palestinians are frustrated is that they are held hostage by their Arab neighbors. They were not allowed to assimilate as others who have left their homes. They were forced into "refugee camps" where they have remained for 66 years supported by the UN. Why do they alone have refugee status after 66 when all others lose that status after 5? Why are they alone being supported by the UN? These people are not refugees, they are the great grandchildren of those who left. They have grown up in the towns which people falsely refer to as refugee camps when they are not.
They are being incited to cause mayhem in Israel by Hamas to cover its own failings. It is not Israel's fault that they live in their current condition. It is the fault of the neighboring Arabs, Hamas and Fatah which steals money meant for the inhabitants of the West Bank and Gaza. Israel left Gaza in 2007. It is a hotbed for terrorism. They can't afford to make that mistake again.
7
A democratic, tolerant, and prosperous Israel threatens just about every other government in the Middle East by its very existence. Under unrelenting pressure Israel had become less democratic and tolerant, thereby moving toward the Middle East norm. Particularly if Israeli prosperity slips, the country is much less of a threat to its neighbors, since it will no longer represent a clear alternative to its neighbors. They will get on with their religious and sectarian wars and will ally unofficially (and perhaps even openly and officially) with Israel when Israel has common interests with them or can help them.
2
American Jewish leaders confide that generating support for the Jewish state is becoming increasingly difficult these days — even within the Jewish community, and especially among younger people.”
So why should they even care, for once their Messiah comes what else is there for them to need to worry about?
So long as that's their reason for getting up each morning, there's no other need for ears to listen or mouths to talk with. If that's what today's Israel has become, they're for all intent and purpose gone from the earth we know anyway. Any diplomatic attempts to or thoughts or reconciliation with Palestine are futile.
We live in such a rational world, don't we?
So why should they even care, for once their Messiah comes what else is there for them to need to worry about?
So long as that's their reason for getting up each morning, there's no other need for ears to listen or mouths to talk with. If that's what today's Israel has become, they're for all intent and purpose gone from the earth we know anyway. Any diplomatic attempts to or thoughts or reconciliation with Palestine are futile.
We live in such a rational world, don't we?
1
You mean the irrational world where Israel offers Palestinians a homeland and peace and they reject it every time?
5
In every article and opinion piece published during the past many, many years, whenever the writer lists or discusses the crimes against humanity perpetrated by the Israeli government against the Palestinians population, every single Israeli government apologist completely ignores the accusations. Instead, the apologists discuss or blame the actions of the Palestinians.
Are they moral cowards? Or are they such racists that no matter how brutally the Palestinians are treated, it doesn't deserve comment because the Palestinians are so far beneath Israelis that their treatment is inconsequential.
Are they not honest enough to argue that because the Palestinians have committed crimes against Israelis, the Israelis are entitled, with their superior might and money, to commit any and all crimes against the Palestinians that they deem necessary. Or, do they not have the honesty to argue that the accusations are not true. But if they did that, then they might have to actually learn about reality in the occupied territories.
Are they moral cowards? Or are they such racists that no matter how brutally the Palestinians are treated, it doesn't deserve comment because the Palestinians are so far beneath Israelis that their treatment is inconsequential.
Are they not honest enough to argue that because the Palestinians have committed crimes against Israelis, the Israelis are entitled, with their superior might and money, to commit any and all crimes against the Palestinians that they deem necessary. Or, do they not have the honesty to argue that the accusations are not true. But if they did that, then they might have to actually learn about reality in the occupied territories.
16
It would be of interest if Mr. Cohen would, in another piece, detail his view of the current legal and moral obligations and responsibilities of the Arabs of the West Bank, both to themselves and to the Israelis, who, led by intransigent fanaticism, they have relentlessly attacked, in one way or another, themselves and with allies, both before and after the State of Israel was established.
Arthur Taub MD PhD
Arthur Taub MD PhD
15
Dr. Taub - read Lev 19:18 again
Israel's tail wags the American dog. With our arms and money we support Israel 100% . This support has become disastrous. What do we get for this support.? World condemnation. Time to stop the arms shipments and money giveaways.
12
Empathy.
We should be asking all people to empathize with the other side. Put yourself in the position of someone on the other side and try to envision what life is like. What things influence you? What alternatives do you see? What are the factors influencing your decisions about choosing among the alternatives?
I see people arguing the sides like lawyers. They think only as advocates of their own side and do not seem able or willing to see the other side and to balance factors in choosing alternatives.
Jews have been wronged.
Palestinians have been wronged.
Get over it!. Start looking for workable solutions.
We should be asking all people to empathize with the other side. Put yourself in the position of someone on the other side and try to envision what life is like. What things influence you? What alternatives do you see? What are the factors influencing your decisions about choosing among the alternatives?
I see people arguing the sides like lawyers. They think only as advocates of their own side and do not seem able or willing to see the other side and to balance factors in choosing alternatives.
Jews have been wronged.
Palestinians have been wronged.
Get over it!. Start looking for workable solutions.
4
Both sides seem to have horrifically corrupt, morally bankrupt and shortsighted leadership hellbent on destruction of the other, and ultimately themselves. Its time we stopped sending our tax dollars to either side over there.
2
But the Israeli side offers peace and Palestinians reject it.
4
Image? You mean Israel's substance problems.
8
Some Israeli's feels completely justified in their country's repressive actions, so any perceived fault cannot be reality. It must be an image problem. Other Israeli recognize that they are bullies, but it seems to get them what they want, and since they have no compassion, why change a working strategy.
3
Given that the whole world seems to be withdrawing into ever more defensive tribalism, I guess there's no special reason Israel shouldn't do the same. The Jews have deferred righteousness before. I guess it will have to be deferred yet again. But let us at least call it by its truthful name: oppression of the stranger in the land.
4
"...hold elections". Who would win and would Israel permit Hamas to take over the levers of power? A population that experiences the current harsh situation, that some many persons are willing to risk death to inflict harm...I wonder if the occupier can tolerate democracy among the oppressed.
That being said, I realize from my reading that the PLO stands against elections now. I do not know why, but must assume they have good reasons for doing so. Has Israel made the legitacy of the PLA an issue? I'd think they could push for and provide matetial assistance to the needed election infrastructure.
That being said, I realize from my reading that the PLO stands against elections now. I do not know why, but must assume they have good reasons for doing so. Has Israel made the legitacy of the PLA an issue? I'd think they could push for and provide matetial assistance to the needed election infrastructure.
If I was living in the dangerous neighborhood of Israel, I wouldn’t give a rat’s patootie for anything J-Street, Human Rights Watch or Mr. Ki-moon
have to say. Come to think of it, I don't live in Israel and still don't care.
http://www.timesofisrael.com/slain-woman-23-remembered-as-beloved-sweet-...
have to say. Come to think of it, I don't live in Israel and still don't care.
http://www.timesofisrael.com/slain-woman-23-remembered-as-beloved-sweet-...
12
The assassination of Rabin was the turning point. It has NOT been as slow degeneration. This event was schism before and after which we are divided.
4
Remember that after the assassination the Palestinians carried out bus bombing after bus bombing in Jerusalem. Had Palestinians, or their leadership shown restraint at just that time then Peres -- who was way up the polls after the assassination -- almost assuredly would have won the election. Netanyahu won by a hair because the Palestinians proved him correct -- they do not want peace.
4
Israel should renounce its ambition to annex the entire West Bank.
5
Netanyahu disrespected America with his address to the US Congress. Considering the support that America has given Israel how could Israel be so disrespectful, so insulting? I will never, ever support Israel after that and personally, I would like to see all US support pulled from Israel and let that tiny nation of 6 million people (fewer people than live in my county) stand on its own.
Israel needs America. America does not need Israel.
Israel needs America. America does not need Israel.
11
It is interesting that Israelis like Netanyahu don't seem to appreciate how his ancestors regarded Rome's occupation. A little reflection on that period of history should make him more understanding of the feelings of the Palestinians to the occupation of the West Bank by Israel.
9
"Former aide to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu"? since no sane official in Israel would such a thing , Roger had to turn every stone (I would guess on FB) to find some quote, of some "Former aide", to get legitimacy for his agenda . A very poor trick indeed. Mr. Cohen is on a mission, and facts will not stop him. He wants America's Jewry and Government to force Israel to "End the occupation" (So, so simple!) and than Peace will come on earth and all leaving beings. I would hope people are a little more sophisticated than that. I would urge Mr. Cohen and his disciples to look at Gaza, Syria, Lybia etc.. and to keep in mind that it is the IDF that keeps Mahmud Abbas on his throne (Because in the middle east the only choice is between bad and worse)- and after keeping all this in mind, try to imagine what will happen to the citizens of Israel once they withdraw from the West Bank. Very few people in Israel are happy with the current situation and would be happy to stop sending their sons and daughters to keep the peace in the west bank, but until Roger has a better offer to make, I would suggest he would move on to matters he understand better"
8
Our nation was founded on the principle of separation of Church and State, as the founders of this nation knew that an intertwining of religion with a whole nation ends in suspicion, hatred, and war. How can we support a nation that continually thinks of itself as a Jewish state? The violation of the American principle plays itself out in the inferior status of Palestinian people within its borders and in the West Bank.
9
Your are delusional if you think the principle of separation of church and state applies to the Middle East. Arab countries from North Africa through the Middle East have systematically persecuted Christians and Jews for a century. They have succeeded in driving out virtual all Christians and Jews who used to live in these countries. So much for separation of church and state!
2
Do you have the same problem with the Islamic states which we support? Would you have the same problem with an Islamic State of Palestine?
Israel's behavior as described by Cohen is quite simply disgusting. So is the weakness of the US in funding and refusing to impose sanctions for such racist oppression. Can anyone explain what the difference is between a Caliphate and Israel?
13
Go to Tel Aviv. Then go to Riyadh... or perhaps an ISIS controlled area. That is the difference.
5
A caliphate is ruled entirely by Islamic (sharia) law. Under Sharia, non-Muslims such as Jews and Christians are governed by Dhimmitude, a second-class legal system for minorities.
By contrast, Israel is a democracy in which certain activities must be approved by the rabbinate. For example, marriages and divorces in Israel must be approved by the rabbinic council of the country. However, all Israeli citizens - Jews, Muslims, and Christians - are equal in the eyes of the law. Israeli society embodies many western ideals, such as Democracy, gay rights, women rights, and a secular education.
It's likely that a current of racism flows across both sides of the West Bank and yes, Palestinians are treated extremely poorly. I say without reservation that Israel must work to end the occupation. However, to paint a broad stroke comparing Israel to a medieval, draconian Islamic caliphate - where gays are stoned and women are repressed - is completely erroneous.
By contrast, Israel is a democracy in which certain activities must be approved by the rabbinate. For example, marriages and divorces in Israel must be approved by the rabbinic council of the country. However, all Israeli citizens - Jews, Muslims, and Christians - are equal in the eyes of the law. Israeli society embodies many western ideals, such as Democracy, gay rights, women rights, and a secular education.
It's likely that a current of racism flows across both sides of the West Bank and yes, Palestinians are treated extremely poorly. I say without reservation that Israel must work to end the occupation. However, to paint a broad stroke comparing Israel to a medieval, draconian Islamic caliphate - where gays are stoned and women are repressed - is completely erroneous.
3
So it's "Close American tax loopholes that benefit settlers. Label West-Bank products so that consumers can make informed decisions. Pressure businesses ...".
Makes sense - but don't hold your breath waiting. Fact is there is as much chance of that happening as there is of introducing sensible regulation of guns.
Lobbyists and money will beat common sense every time.
Makes sense - but don't hold your breath waiting. Fact is there is as much chance of that happening as there is of introducing sensible regulation of guns.
Lobbyists and money will beat common sense every time.
5
Amna Farooki seems an amazing person. She actually wants to hear differing views! May her tribe increase.
4
Netanyahu in Israel ... Trump in America. At the moment the difference is that Netanyahu leads the government in Israel.
1
It's past time to put distance between the U.S. and Israeli governments. Our national interests, not theirs, should be paramount.
7
Roger, just what is it that you want? I looked at a globe the other day and needed a magnifying glass to find Israel and a larger one just to find the West Bank. To you, this has become an obsession. It is the cause of all the world's problems. Yet in the pre world war II diaspora, Jews in every country were also the world's biggest problems or so, some would have us believe.
Roger, I have one and only one question for you. If tomorrow morning, Israel returned 100% of the territories it acquired as a result of the six day war, including all of East Jerusalem and the Jewish holy places (which the Arabs deny ever existed) will there be peace once and for all in the Middle East? I think your readers deserve an answer so that we understand what you are writing about and what your objective is.
Additionally, Roger, don't tell us what Ambassador Shapiro chose to speak out on. You are sophisticated enough to know that no Ambassador speaks without prior approval of the Secretary or Department of State They are not free agents. Finally, do not discuss Jewish messianism. Your articles are not the proper venue for theological topics with which you may disagree.
Roger, I have one and only one question for you. If tomorrow morning, Israel returned 100% of the territories it acquired as a result of the six day war, including all of East Jerusalem and the Jewish holy places (which the Arabs deny ever existed) will there be peace once and for all in the Middle East? I think your readers deserve an answer so that we understand what you are writing about and what your objective is.
Additionally, Roger, don't tell us what Ambassador Shapiro chose to speak out on. You are sophisticated enough to know that no Ambassador speaks without prior approval of the Secretary or Department of State They are not free agents. Finally, do not discuss Jewish messianism. Your articles are not the proper venue for theological topics with which you may disagree.
17
Jimmy Carter tried to start a debate about Israeli policies with regard to the West Bank and look what happened. It is very difficult to take a position critical of Israel in America but there is little doubt that the West Bank is occupied. The chance of a two-state solution is regrettably a delusion under the current Israeli authority.
6
Israel's "image" is probably beyond salvaging after three decades of negative spin by western "news and opinion"media. Mr. Cohen's latest screed helps to maintain the momentum.
Opinions about Israel by much of the scantily informed non-Muslim world have been almost universally shaped by an endless panorama of word-pictures: "occupation," "illegal," "international law'" "world opinion," "war crimes," "settlers," "disproportionate," "right-wing." There is little or no room for truth when this is the unalterable narrative, and certainly not much nuance or context.
This fairy tale is now in its second generation of retelling, and sadly informs the foreign policy of our government. Its enablers at the UN sink to new lows on a regular basis, the Secretary-General now expressing sympathetic understanding of the motivation to murder and falsely linking "the occupation" with a wave of terrorism carried out largely by Arab-Israeli citizens.
Is it any wonder that statistically tracked incidents of antisemitism worldwide have skyrocketed over the past couple of years? Is it a coincidence that this increase parallels an increase in the vilification of Israel in public and in supposedly "impartial" media outlets?
Israel's image is certainly an issue. But sadly the real issue is the fact that a majority of Palestinians regard the entire State of Israel as a "settlement."
Opinions about Israel by much of the scantily informed non-Muslim world have been almost universally shaped by an endless panorama of word-pictures: "occupation," "illegal," "international law'" "world opinion," "war crimes," "settlers," "disproportionate," "right-wing." There is little or no room for truth when this is the unalterable narrative, and certainly not much nuance or context.
This fairy tale is now in its second generation of retelling, and sadly informs the foreign policy of our government. Its enablers at the UN sink to new lows on a regular basis, the Secretary-General now expressing sympathetic understanding of the motivation to murder and falsely linking "the occupation" with a wave of terrorism carried out largely by Arab-Israeli citizens.
Is it any wonder that statistically tracked incidents of antisemitism worldwide have skyrocketed over the past couple of years? Is it a coincidence that this increase parallels an increase in the vilification of Israel in public and in supposedly "impartial" media outlets?
Israel's image is certainly an issue. But sadly the real issue is the fact that a majority of Palestinians regard the entire State of Israel as a "settlement."
11
Wrong, wrong, wrong. Again Roger Cohen is wrong about Israel and its
policies. Netanyahu was elected by the people of Israel to defend and protect
Israel as a state. The Muslim world wants to destroy Israel and the people
living there as Jews. Israel is a dangerous place to live but Roger Cohen
lives in London. He underestimates the hatred of Israel by the Muslim world.
policies. Netanyahu was elected by the people of Israel to defend and protect
Israel as a state. The Muslim world wants to destroy Israel and the people
living there as Jews. Israel is a dangerous place to live but Roger Cohen
lives in London. He underestimates the hatred of Israel by the Muslim world.
12
At least this gets right what the last NYT OP-ED got wrong. Palestinians are, unjustly, limited in their rights to build in the area of the West Bank that is under Israeli Administrative Control. This amounts to about 25% of the West Bank. These areas, maps are readily available, mostly include the border zone with Jordan, but also include much smaller areas adjacent to Israel, and least justifiably small areas around settlements. It still remains that in about 75% of the West Bank (and about 80% of the original Palestinian Mandate. today called Jordan, the West Bank, and Israel) there is no Israeli sovereignty. Also, no Israeli military sovereignty. Also, no mildly responsible government of any sort. No decent schools or hospitals. Few roads. No real rule of law. Lots of public executions and great tahini, though.
1
What the region needs is a 3-state solution, Israel, Palestine on the West Bank, and Gaza. Gaza should be it's own state. The fact is, Gaza and the Palestinians on the West Bank are rarely on the same page philosophically or politically.
Then look at the geography. A bifurcated Palestine consisting of Palestine on the West Bank and Gaza, separated by Israel, is unnatural and is unlikely to be viable.
Then look at the geography. A bifurcated Palestine consisting of Palestine on the West Bank and Gaza, separated by Israel, is unnatural and is unlikely to be viable.
3
What do we tell a Palestinian born in Haifa, whose family goes back generations, who fled Haifa as a child with his family in fear in 1948, who can no longer be a citizen of Haifa?
What do we say when he reminds us that Zion is the Hebrew word for Jerusalem and the Zionist movement started in 1890 with the intent to takeover some of the Arab land?
What do we say when he reminds us of the Sykes-Picot agreement and Balfour Declaration during WWI?
What do we say when he asks why only Palestine was made a British protectorate after WWI when all the rest were allowed to be countries?
What do we say when he asks why, when the British abandoned their mandate, didn’t the Jews work with the Arabs to create the country of Palestine to live and work side by side with the Arabs as they had been doing during the previous sixty years of immigration to Palestine instead of unilaterally creating Israel?
And what do we tell him when he reminds us that, while he can no longer be a citizen of Haifa, a Jew born in the US or anywhere in the world has the right to be a citizen in Haifa?
The Jews talk about their homeland. He would like to return to his homeland.
By now, the majority of Palestinians, recognize that Israel is not going away. But Israel wants to exist as a Jewish state. This will be difficult with either the two state solution or the one state solution.
What do we say when he reminds us that Zion is the Hebrew word for Jerusalem and the Zionist movement started in 1890 with the intent to takeover some of the Arab land?
What do we say when he reminds us of the Sykes-Picot agreement and Balfour Declaration during WWI?
What do we say when he asks why only Palestine was made a British protectorate after WWI when all the rest were allowed to be countries?
What do we say when he asks why, when the British abandoned their mandate, didn’t the Jews work with the Arabs to create the country of Palestine to live and work side by side with the Arabs as they had been doing during the previous sixty years of immigration to Palestine instead of unilaterally creating Israel?
And what do we tell him when he reminds us that, while he can no longer be a citizen of Haifa, a Jew born in the US or anywhere in the world has the right to be a citizen in Haifa?
The Jews talk about their homeland. He would like to return to his homeland.
By now, the majority of Palestinians, recognize that Israel is not going away. But Israel wants to exist as a Jewish state. This will be difficult with either the two state solution or the one state solution.
7
I would tell this Straw Man that fled Haifa under the presumption that the Arab armies would come in and murder all of the Jews that they lost the war and alas, that has consequences.
5
And what do you tell, or ask, a Palestinian child why his ancestors, long before the state existed, hated and murdered Jews? What do you ask a Palestinian child of Hebron why their ancestors (some Arabs did shelter and save Jews) went on a killing spree in 1929 that murdered 67 Jews, many of them foreign students in the local yeshiva. including 3 from Chicago, 1 from Memphis, 1 from Philadelphia, and at least 1 from NYC, plus those from Lithuania and Poland. Ask yourself, don't you see the connection between peaceful Islam and an ugly history of anti-Jewish incitement? Have we not come full circle?
4
The United States needs to send a signal to Israel in no uncertain terms that they need to get their house in order. Official Israeli intransigence concerning the condition, status and treatment of Palestinians could cost them dearly in the future.
The history of the Levant is deep & Byzantine, filled with tragedies over millennia. The history of the peoples living there is even more so. No reasonable person disputes the security concerns of the Israeli state, but we also know that things as they currently exist are not sustainable. The whole area has multiple challenges that are amplifying over time and could trigger a sequence of things that could get very ugly very quickly.
Just like the root evil of our political system is the Republican Party, the problem in Israel is the Likudniks. Mr Netanyahu has stepped over the line with his meddling in the internal politics of the United States and he should be persona non grata. Countless millions like me are tired of US policy being so intimately intertwined with an ally that pays mostly lip service to our concerns.
The generations coming to power in these United States are far more skeptical, more fair minded & less religious than any in US history. The fastest growing "faith" group in America are non-believers who have no religious tie with Israel. There is coming a day when the US may just step back and let Israel go it alone should they not get serious and deal fairly with the West Bank.
The history of the Levant is deep & Byzantine, filled with tragedies over millennia. The history of the peoples living there is even more so. No reasonable person disputes the security concerns of the Israeli state, but we also know that things as they currently exist are not sustainable. The whole area has multiple challenges that are amplifying over time and could trigger a sequence of things that could get very ugly very quickly.
Just like the root evil of our political system is the Republican Party, the problem in Israel is the Likudniks. Mr Netanyahu has stepped over the line with his meddling in the internal politics of the United States and he should be persona non grata. Countless millions like me are tired of US policy being so intimately intertwined with an ally that pays mostly lip service to our concerns.
The generations coming to power in these United States are far more skeptical, more fair minded & less religious than any in US history. The fastest growing "faith" group in America are non-believers who have no religious tie with Israel. There is coming a day when the US may just step back and let Israel go it alone should they not get serious and deal fairly with the West Bank.
5
I'm a Jewish American who was born a week before the birth of the State of Israel. I was raised as a Zionist in a family that strongly supported Israel in the post-Holocaust period. My graduate schooling was in Middle Eastern politics. I've watched in astonishment as Israel has changed from a liberal democratic state to its current ultraconservative right wing government. Surely the Palestinians' refusal to accept Israel as an equal partner and as an independent Jewish state has contributed to this state of affairs. The terrorism inflicted by Palestinians and other Arabs on Israel and on Jews around the world has been detestable. The tepid response of world leaders to this terrorism and to the anti-Semitism of the Islamic Republic of Iran has also surely contributed to the insecurity of Israelis. All of that, however, cannot excuse the dreadful conditions imposed on the Palestinians in the occupied terroritories; nor can it excuse the continued support by the government of Israel for religious Jewish terrorist organizations whose only aim is to turn Israel into a Jewish theocracy; nor can it excuse Bibi Netanyahu's disgraceful insinuation of himself into the American political process; nor can it condone the continued harassment and limitation of free speech of Israeli human rights organizations. Should this behavior on the part of the Israeli government continue, I will find it difficult to continue to call myself a supporter of the State of Israel.
2
So how would you recommend making peace?
3
If Israel wants to create a unitary state with all civic rights given to all its citizens, it should do that. If Israel wants to do a two state solution with a viable Palestinian state living side by side with Israel, it should do that. However, what Israel has been doing is C) none of the above...Creating a stealth unitary state that consigns a large share of its population to permanent second-class citizenship, all the while blaming the oppressed minority for its own oppression. Again, if that's what it wants to do...go ahead. But do we still have to repeat, over and over and over, all that nonsense about being the only democracy in the Middle East, and America's only real friend in the Middle East?
3
"If Israel wants to do a two state solution with a viable Palestinian state living side by side with Israel, it should do that."
Uhm, they tried to do that in 1999, 2000, and 2008 and the Palestinians rejected it. They give Gaza to the Palestinians and the Palestinians elected Hezbollah terrorists to lead their government in Gaza.
So, indeed, what should Israel do?
Uhm, they tried to do that in 1999, 2000, and 2008 and the Palestinians rejected it. They give Gaza to the Palestinians and the Palestinians elected Hezbollah terrorists to lead their government in Gaza.
So, indeed, what should Israel do?
4
Roger - its abundantly clear that the Palestinian leadership will never accept a Jewish state within the so=called "green line".. To paraphrase Ban Ki- Moon its
"Human Nature" for responsible Israeli leadership to play the "long game" and create facts on the ground which will maintain Jewish control of Israel for a very long time..
"Human Nature" for responsible Israeli leadership to play the "long game" and create facts on the ground which will maintain Jewish control of Israel for a very long time..
5
Had the people who supported this nation's existence known that instead of a safe haven for Jews, it would become an oppressive theocracy, Israel never would have happened.
7
Go to Tel Aviv. Go to Riyadh. Then talk to me again about an "oppressive theocracy". You do realize that secular and religious jews of all stripes live together in Israel and that Arabs serve in the legislature. Don't you?
3
Mr. Cohen,
You quote Human Rights Watch, an organization which very few would think fair and balanced. Others can go into detail, but please let me just deconstruct one quote:
"On the other hand, Israel confiscates Palestinian land, forcibly displaces Palestinians"
The PA tortures and then murders Palestinians willing to sell land to Jews. Since there is really no reason why Judea and Samaria, the Biblical homeland of the Jews, should be Judenrein like the rest of the Middle East, the Israel government uses Eminent Domain. What is wrong with that?
"restricts their freedom of movement"
One would think that the Israelis are just big meanies; however, in fact, the Israelis very justifiably control the movements of the Palestinian population because they have shown themselves willing, over and over again, to use freedom of movement to murder Jews in various ways.
I see at heart an unwillingness to see the Palestinians as full adults with full agency of their own. That they might bring their oppression upon themselves doesn't seem to occur to you Mr. Cohen. That is very unfortunate.
You quote Human Rights Watch, an organization which very few would think fair and balanced. Others can go into detail, but please let me just deconstruct one quote:
"On the other hand, Israel confiscates Palestinian land, forcibly displaces Palestinians"
The PA tortures and then murders Palestinians willing to sell land to Jews. Since there is really no reason why Judea and Samaria, the Biblical homeland of the Jews, should be Judenrein like the rest of the Middle East, the Israel government uses Eminent Domain. What is wrong with that?
"restricts their freedom of movement"
One would think that the Israelis are just big meanies; however, in fact, the Israelis very justifiably control the movements of the Palestinian population because they have shown themselves willing, over and over again, to use freedom of movement to murder Jews in various ways.
I see at heart an unwillingness to see the Palestinians as full adults with full agency of their own. That they might bring their oppression upon themselves doesn't seem to occur to you Mr. Cohen. That is very unfortunate.
8
If Mr. Cohen were to take a poll today in Israel he (not to his surprise) would confirm that the overwhelming body of JEWISH Israelis(not just Arab) support an independent Palestinian State on W.Bank (not GAZA).
In his criticisms he also conveniently does not mention that when Ehud Barak(Israel's most decorated former soldier) was Israel's prime minister he agreed to 97% of what Arafat demanded concerning an independent Palestinian state.. It was Arafat who turned it down! BECAUSE
Every poll among Palestinians (W.Bank and Gaza) has indicated that the vast majority still believe ALL of Israel should be Palestine.
Most Israels want to continue occupying the W. Bank like they want the plague!
Does Mr. Cohen really believe that the vast majority of Israeli soldiers assigned to the W. Bank consider themselves occupiers and enjoy being there? ONLY the vocal minority right wing Jewish religious fanatics representing a significant coalition of the ruling majority of the Israeli gov't support the occupation and encroaching settlements.
Finally I challenge Mr. Cohen to name just ONE ARAB country where JEWS are elected to serve in THEIR governments or dare to criticize if living there.
In his criticisms he also conveniently does not mention that when Ehud Barak(Israel's most decorated former soldier) was Israel's prime minister he agreed to 97% of what Arafat demanded concerning an independent Palestinian state.. It was Arafat who turned it down! BECAUSE
Every poll among Palestinians (W.Bank and Gaza) has indicated that the vast majority still believe ALL of Israel should be Palestine.
Most Israels want to continue occupying the W. Bank like they want the plague!
Does Mr. Cohen really believe that the vast majority of Israeli soldiers assigned to the W. Bank consider themselves occupiers and enjoy being there? ONLY the vocal minority right wing Jewish religious fanatics representing a significant coalition of the ruling majority of the Israeli gov't support the occupation and encroaching settlements.
Finally I challenge Mr. Cohen to name just ONE ARAB country where JEWS are elected to serve in THEIR governments or dare to criticize if living there.
11
The Palestinians have shown no inclination to moderate their belligerent views and behavior, no matter what concessions Israel has made in the past. Is it any wonder that Israelis on both the left and right have given up hope for a negotiated settlement, and have turned to settlements as a buffer in an increasingly dangerous neighborhood? Perhaps the Palestinian-Israeli conflict has been a recalcitrant issue because the approach to "peacemaking" is always the same; ask the Israelis to make concessions. How about starting with the Palestinians? Ask them what they would do and what they would accept for peace. The answer? Nothing short of the destruction of Israel.
11
Mr. Cohen, Israel exists through the divided loyalty of so many prominent American Jews in high places, in government and commerce. That is all. That is why they misbehave. And will continue to. They feel they are a race just behind the Anglo Saxons and superior to all others. The Palestinians just have to get used to that, I suppose. Or until the US is not so mighty.
4
The US must stop all welfare for Israel so long as they stay in violation of international law with the illegal settlements and occupation.
8
We are not the one's seeing our expectant wives, mothers, or scholars being murdered in our town solely because they are Jewish.
Wait, in France we do. Argentina as well.
We don't have mothers celebrating the death of their children in suicide attacks voicing the hope that all of their ten children will gain such glorious martyrdom(and her family a large check for each death).
I would suggest you walk about a largely Muslim section of London or Paris with a keepah (a head covering worn by Jewish males) on and tell us how it works out, if we don't first see the article in the obits.
Giving back Gaza didn't seem to work out so well.
The vast majority of the Arab occupants of the territories would throw the remaining Jews into the sea to drown. After they had murdered all they could.They have felt that way for over 100 years.
There are more Jews reading this article now that there are in any single Arab nation. How did that happen?
Had the Arabs adopted a Ghandian philosophy they would long ago have had their own state. And have prospered.
A very small democratic state is hard pressed to make peace with a gangster theocracy that calls for it's destruction, both of the state and it's people.
Until that tune changes, it's suicidal for Israel to give up defensible borders.
Wait, in France we do. Argentina as well.
We don't have mothers celebrating the death of their children in suicide attacks voicing the hope that all of their ten children will gain such glorious martyrdom(and her family a large check for each death).
I would suggest you walk about a largely Muslim section of London or Paris with a keepah (a head covering worn by Jewish males) on and tell us how it works out, if we don't first see the article in the obits.
Giving back Gaza didn't seem to work out so well.
The vast majority of the Arab occupants of the territories would throw the remaining Jews into the sea to drown. After they had murdered all they could.They have felt that way for over 100 years.
There are more Jews reading this article now that there are in any single Arab nation. How did that happen?
Had the Arabs adopted a Ghandian philosophy they would long ago have had their own state. And have prospered.
A very small democratic state is hard pressed to make peace with a gangster theocracy that calls for it's destruction, both of the state and it's people.
Until that tune changes, it's suicidal for Israel to give up defensible borders.
7
The context within which Israel was created, following the Holocaust, combined with the hostile environment in which it evolved, explains the embattled mentality that has characterized its Jewish citizens from the beginning. Created in war, nurtured by repeated clashes with its Arab neighbors, Israel absorbed the harsh lesson that the outside world, despite a certain sympathy for Jewish suffering, would not help protect the new nation. The Israelis, consequently, forged their sense of national identity partially in the crucible of that Sisyphean struggle. Whole generations have lived their lives in the peculiar environment of a besieged state that also rules over large numbers of Arabs.
But this troubled history has ill-equipped Israelis to cope with a changed world in which they no longer qualify as an embattled minority. They have developed into Goliath, with nuclear weapons instead of a slingshot. Neither their Arab neighbors, embroiled in sectarian conflicts, nor the Palestinians, capable only of episodic acts of terror, can threaten Israel's existence.
This imbalance of power would enable an Israeli government committed to a just peace to withdraw from the West Bank, while also helping the Palestinians to create a viable state and economy. Mutual bitterness would not quickly disappear, but the practical necessities of creating an independent country would tend to divert Palestinian energies into constructive channels. Born in war, Israel now needs peace.
But this troubled history has ill-equipped Israelis to cope with a changed world in which they no longer qualify as an embattled minority. They have developed into Goliath, with nuclear weapons instead of a slingshot. Neither their Arab neighbors, embroiled in sectarian conflicts, nor the Palestinians, capable only of episodic acts of terror, can threaten Israel's existence.
This imbalance of power would enable an Israeli government committed to a just peace to withdraw from the West Bank, while also helping the Palestinians to create a viable state and economy. Mutual bitterness would not quickly disappear, but the practical necessities of creating an independent country would tend to divert Palestinian energies into constructive channels. Born in war, Israel now needs peace.
4
Of only the Palestinians were willing to accept peace!
3
The headline of this column is insulting and smacks of bigotry.
Beyond that, Mr. Cohen (and Ms. Farooqi), again one might ask how long the world can continue to call the West Bank "occupied territory", simply because, once upon a time, boundaries were drawn that have had no relevance to the real world since 1967. Since the Yom Kippur war.
The Palestinians have sowed what they reaped, however politically incorrect that statement is in today's anti_israel, pro-poor-Palestinians echo chamber.
A two state solution hasn't had any basis in reality in decades, but still we cling to it as if it's 1948.
Thanks to the Arabs (now referred to as a made-up Palestinian "people") declaring war on teeny tiny Israel in 1948, in 1967, and 1973, they have managed to lose territory, which tends to happen when you make war and -- lose.
You accommodate.
But since they Arab states won't even recognize and accept the existence of Israel, what is Israel to do?
And why is Israel always held to a standard other nations are not held to? Why do they have to give back land won in wars declared on them, when no one else does. Where's all the righteous indignation, and hate toward Russia re Georgia and Ukraine?
The hypocrisy surrounding Israel's actions, as opposed to those of other nations, is sickening. Yes, "Palestinians" suffer. A broader view of the future might have helped prevent their misery. Burning the Jewish quarter to the ground and closing off Jerusalem to Jews until 1967 wasn't too smart.
Beyond that, Mr. Cohen (and Ms. Farooqi), again one might ask how long the world can continue to call the West Bank "occupied territory", simply because, once upon a time, boundaries were drawn that have had no relevance to the real world since 1967. Since the Yom Kippur war.
The Palestinians have sowed what they reaped, however politically incorrect that statement is in today's anti_israel, pro-poor-Palestinians echo chamber.
A two state solution hasn't had any basis in reality in decades, but still we cling to it as if it's 1948.
Thanks to the Arabs (now referred to as a made-up Palestinian "people") declaring war on teeny tiny Israel in 1948, in 1967, and 1973, they have managed to lose territory, which tends to happen when you make war and -- lose.
You accommodate.
But since they Arab states won't even recognize and accept the existence of Israel, what is Israel to do?
And why is Israel always held to a standard other nations are not held to? Why do they have to give back land won in wars declared on them, when no one else does. Where's all the righteous indignation, and hate toward Russia re Georgia and Ukraine?
The hypocrisy surrounding Israel's actions, as opposed to those of other nations, is sickening. Yes, "Palestinians" suffer. A broader view of the future might have helped prevent their misery. Burning the Jewish quarter to the ground and closing off Jerusalem to Jews until 1967 wasn't too smart.
8
Seems historylesson does not know her history.
There was never a "teeny tiny" Israel - Israel has always had the most powerful, best equipped military in the region.
The Arab states never "declared war" on Israel - in 1948 the Arab states entered mandate Palestine on the expiration (by unilateral vacation by the UK) of the mandate - Israel unilaterally declared statehood at the same time, without any prior advice of that fact. In 1967 Israel attacked Egypt - a latter day "Pearl Harbor" attack - in response to an Egyptian announcement that it intended to blockade the Gulf of Aqaba (although no blockade was ever put in place). In 1973, Egypt and Syria attacked Israeli forces occupying parts of Egypt and Syria - again there was no declaration of war.
Yes Israel grabbed the land at gunpoint but it rejects the people living on that land - that is why it is an occupation not an annexation.
There is no other situation like this tolerated anywhere else. And that is the only "double standard" regarding Israel's actions.
And as for the Arab states not recognising Israel - that simply is not true. Demonstrably - Israel withdrew from the occupied Sinai (resulting from an earlier land grab) and Egypt made peace. Israel refused to countenance the Arab peace initiative of 2002 - proposing full recognition by every Arab state - because it won't end the occupation.
There was never a "teeny tiny" Israel - Israel has always had the most powerful, best equipped military in the region.
The Arab states never "declared war" on Israel - in 1948 the Arab states entered mandate Palestine on the expiration (by unilateral vacation by the UK) of the mandate - Israel unilaterally declared statehood at the same time, without any prior advice of that fact. In 1967 Israel attacked Egypt - a latter day "Pearl Harbor" attack - in response to an Egyptian announcement that it intended to blockade the Gulf of Aqaba (although no blockade was ever put in place). In 1973, Egypt and Syria attacked Israeli forces occupying parts of Egypt and Syria - again there was no declaration of war.
Yes Israel grabbed the land at gunpoint but it rejects the people living on that land - that is why it is an occupation not an annexation.
There is no other situation like this tolerated anywhere else. And that is the only "double standard" regarding Israel's actions.
And as for the Arab states not recognising Israel - that simply is not true. Demonstrably - Israel withdrew from the occupied Sinai (resulting from an earlier land grab) and Egypt made peace. Israel refused to countenance the Arab peace initiative of 2002 - proposing full recognition by every Arab state - because it won't end the occupation.
1
Roger Cohen's heart is in the right place. His concern for what Israel has become and for the grossly unjust suffering inflicted on the Palestinians is eloquently expressed and genuine. But he still doesn't get it.
Israel will never give up sovereignty over Judea and Samaria. Israel will never allow a Palestinian state to be created. Netanyahu himself, who now passes for a “moderate”, has stated this openly. Since the political trend in Israel is increasingly towards the right, both religious and secular, it is impossible to imagine that the next Israeli government will be more likely to decide to treat the Palestinians any better than the current one.
Therefore suggestions such as to close loopholes benefitting Jewish settlers or to better label products that are produced by those settlers — suggestions which only make sense in the context of promoting the “two-state solution” — are simply misguided.
What is urgently needed is for the United States, Israel's patron, to close ALL tax loopholes that benefit Israel per se; stop protecting Israel in the UN and other international forums; insist that its lobby register as foreign agents; and remedy America’s corrupt system of campaign financing.
The goal of this pressure would be to persuade Israel to reform its society and laws so that Palestinians are treated no differently from other citizens or residents of Israel.
Israel will never give up sovereignty over Judea and Samaria. Israel will never allow a Palestinian state to be created. Netanyahu himself, who now passes for a “moderate”, has stated this openly. Since the political trend in Israel is increasingly towards the right, both religious and secular, it is impossible to imagine that the next Israeli government will be more likely to decide to treat the Palestinians any better than the current one.
Therefore suggestions such as to close loopholes benefitting Jewish settlers or to better label products that are produced by those settlers — suggestions which only make sense in the context of promoting the “two-state solution” — are simply misguided.
What is urgently needed is for the United States, Israel's patron, to close ALL tax loopholes that benefit Israel per se; stop protecting Israel in the UN and other international forums; insist that its lobby register as foreign agents; and remedy America’s corrupt system of campaign financing.
The goal of this pressure would be to persuade Israel to reform its society and laws so that Palestinians are treated no differently from other citizens or residents of Israel.
8
As an American, I cannot escape feeling a share of responsibility for the
inhumane treatment Israel increasingly subjects on its neighbor. As a citizen I do not support the allocation of funds to Israel as it continues to fund more settlements. What does this citizenship mean when factions of my own country refuse to recognize that a majority of us citizens would overwhelmingly vote to discontinue all support to Israel? We have no wish to support the noxious behavior of a militaristic bully nation. How may the issue be brought to a vote? We the people wish to be heard.
inhumane treatment Israel increasingly subjects on its neighbor. As a citizen I do not support the allocation of funds to Israel as it continues to fund more settlements. What does this citizenship mean when factions of my own country refuse to recognize that a majority of us citizens would overwhelmingly vote to discontinue all support to Israel? We have no wish to support the noxious behavior of a militaristic bully nation. How may the issue be brought to a vote? We the people wish to be heard.
8
"Between 1776 and the present, the United States seized some 1.5 billion acres from North America’s native peoples, an area 25 times the size of the United Kingdom. Many Americans are only vaguely familiar with the story of how this happened. They perhaps recognise Wounded Knee and the Trail of Tears, but few can recall the details and even fewer think that those events are central to US history". "The Invasion of America" by Claudio Saunt, Aeon, January 7, 2015.
It is the height of hypocrisy for the U.S. to criticize any other country for "occupying territory" when the U.S. pulled off the greatest land theft in history.
Is the current situation in Israel ideal? Clearly not! But to continue to recite the mantra of "settlements are the problem" is to ignore reality. Settlements are not the obstacle to peace; the true obstacle to peace is the PA's adoption of the "Two-Faced Solution" as opposed to the "Two State Solution". The PA tells the world it wants peace, but children in Palestine schools are literally taught to hate Israel and Jews; the Palestinian media is full of examples of PA officials preaching the destruction of Israel (see palwatch.org).
The author of this article, and all who read, need to remember that the Arab world rejected UN Resolution 181. Yassir Arafat rejected the Clinton Parameters which would have given Palestinians a state on over 90% of the West Bank. Abbas rejected the proposal of a Palestinian state on 97% of the West Bank.
It is the height of hypocrisy for the U.S. to criticize any other country for "occupying territory" when the U.S. pulled off the greatest land theft in history.
Is the current situation in Israel ideal? Clearly not! But to continue to recite the mantra of "settlements are the problem" is to ignore reality. Settlements are not the obstacle to peace; the true obstacle to peace is the PA's adoption of the "Two-Faced Solution" as opposed to the "Two State Solution". The PA tells the world it wants peace, but children in Palestine schools are literally taught to hate Israel and Jews; the Palestinian media is full of examples of PA officials preaching the destruction of Israel (see palwatch.org).
The author of this article, and all who read, need to remember that the Arab world rejected UN Resolution 181. Yassir Arafat rejected the Clinton Parameters which would have given Palestinians a state on over 90% of the West Bank. Abbas rejected the proposal of a Palestinian state on 97% of the West Bank.
9
Netanyahu and his allies may end up implicit in more grief and suffering for Jews than anyone since 1945.
I pray for the peace of Israel. And for its survival.
I pray for the peace of Israel. And for its survival.
1
It is note worthy that Mr Cohen highlights "image"in his article title about Israel
By any standard "image"should come second or third after identity, doctrinaire roots and founding principles and practices.
For identity
Isrsel is an avowedly racist nation/state that came to be to,protect a certain community irrespective of how moral or legetimate the means used were.
Israel is ultimately a colony of Aliens who forced their way into Palestine and colonized adding to standard colonization practices of dis franchising and subjugation of the colonized population.the dual,novelities of "dislocation"and "dispossession" and crowing it all with another first : the denial of right of return to home and homeland for those who for one reason or another were outside the country when Israel came to be.
For the Cohen's of this world perhaps "image" should be of secondary importance after identity and mode of birth and means used to achieve whatever was achieved that they revere and take pride in.
By any standard "image"should come second or third after identity, doctrinaire roots and founding principles and practices.
For identity
Isrsel is an avowedly racist nation/state that came to be to,protect a certain community irrespective of how moral or legetimate the means used were.
Israel is ultimately a colony of Aliens who forced their way into Palestine and colonized adding to standard colonization practices of dis franchising and subjugation of the colonized population.the dual,novelities of "dislocation"and "dispossession" and crowing it all with another first : the denial of right of return to home and homeland for those who for one reason or another were outside the country when Israel came to be.
For the Cohen's of this world perhaps "image" should be of secondary importance after identity and mode of birth and means used to achieve whatever was achieved that they revere and take pride in.
3
I take it that the Hashamites weren't colonizing what supposed to be the land of Palestine that wasn't going to the Jews.
2
Israel is caught between a rock and a hard place. As Mr. Cohen states, Israel has a right to survival and the Jordan River is the logical defensible zone against hostile and collapsing Arab neighbor states which suggests a "one-state" solution. But to grant citizenship to 2.8 million West Bank Arabs threatens Israel's existence as a Jewish state. There are two myths - Palestine independence and Israel as a Jewish state - that must die before progress can be made.
1
"Palestinian leaders also have a responsibility to curb that hate". After what has happened in Gaza over the past 10 years, is it possible for anyone in Gaza not to hate?
8
You mean electing a terrorist group, starting a war and losing?
3
It is plain enough that the government of Netanyahu and his further-right allies is in a deliberate, slow process of absorbing the West Bank into Israel. Their activities with regard to settlements, partly described by Roger Cohen's article, are unambiguous.
6
Israel's 'image issue'?
An interesting way to put contravening international law and stealing land you occupy; having two sets of laws; annexing an occupied East Jerusalem without giving its non-Jewish residents citizenship; conflating both Zionism and Judaism and then screaming anti-Semitism when its enemies do the same; conflating Palestinians, 'the Arabs' and terrorists into one toxic lie and throwing it at the U.N. when they are criticized for illegal acts (the argument that 'the Arabs' of the West Bank have many 'other Arab countries' to go to when kicked off their ancestral lands seems to have returned from the past- denial of the existence of a people and the racist lumping of all 'Arabs' together).
All these are human rights violations at best and war crimes at worst- all protected by the U.S. veto in the Security Council while generations of Palestinians live in such despair that they pick up knives for useless violent actions. They have no hope in the present- but as a Palestinian rights activist once told me, "We can wait 100, 150 years - no Empire lasts forever and once the USA is not the power behind Israel our time will come."
Fundamentalist nationalism is the enemy of our times - be it in the form of ISIS or the current Israeli Government. Two sides of the same coin.
An interesting way to put contravening international law and stealing land you occupy; having two sets of laws; annexing an occupied East Jerusalem without giving its non-Jewish residents citizenship; conflating both Zionism and Judaism and then screaming anti-Semitism when its enemies do the same; conflating Palestinians, 'the Arabs' and terrorists into one toxic lie and throwing it at the U.N. when they are criticized for illegal acts (the argument that 'the Arabs' of the West Bank have many 'other Arab countries' to go to when kicked off their ancestral lands seems to have returned from the past- denial of the existence of a people and the racist lumping of all 'Arabs' together).
All these are human rights violations at best and war crimes at worst- all protected by the U.S. veto in the Security Council while generations of Palestinians live in such despair that they pick up knives for useless violent actions. They have no hope in the present- but as a Palestinian rights activist once told me, "We can wait 100, 150 years - no Empire lasts forever and once the USA is not the power behind Israel our time will come."
Fundamentalist nationalism is the enemy of our times - be it in the form of ISIS or the current Israeli Government. Two sides of the same coin.
5
Mr. Cohen, you couldn't be more right, and thank you for your article. Israel has become a thieving pariah in the eyes of the civilized world. Given the land theft, the general treatment of the Palestinians, and obvious lies about any intention to create a two state solution, Israeli leadership has cast Israel in such a poor light that Americans are now noticeably disgusted with her, and rightfully so, and that does not bode well for Israel. Netanyahu has imperiled a new generation of Israelis with his immoral policies and his constant subversion of the peace process, and I hope he pays the political price. I also hope that Israel can get back on the track of common human decency.
5
"obvious lies about any intention to create a two state solution"
Check your history. Arafat rejected an Israeli offer of a Palestinian State covering over 90% of the West Bank and Abbas rejected an Israeli offer of a Palestinian State that would have covered 97% of the West Bank. Who is lying about its intentions for a Two-State solution?
Check your history. Arafat rejected an Israeli offer of a Palestinian State covering over 90% of the West Bank and Abbas rejected an Israeli offer of a Palestinian State that would have covered 97% of the West Bank. Who is lying about its intentions for a Two-State solution?
2
The real question for Americans is how long should we support an Israeli government that goes to such lengths to insult our President and mock our concerns?
5
The haters-of-Israel club, including Mr. Cohen, HRW, J-Street U and the Obama administration are all ratcheting up the volume on their absurd and insulting accusations on the only humane, decent and democratic country in that part of the world. The more their world-view is disproved by actual events and facts, the more desperate the screeching.
While Israel must, unfortunately, indulge the in-over-their-heads Obama administration for another long year, the others--including Mr. Cohen--can and should be studiously ignored.
While Israel must, unfortunately, indulge the in-over-their-heads Obama administration for another long year, the others--including Mr. Cohen--can and should be studiously ignored.
4
It's time for the UN to impose a solution upon the parties.
The Middle East dilemma was created in 1948 by the UN when it imperfectly gave a state to Jews mostly at Palestinian expense to make recompense for what the Germans did. The UN needs to IMPOSE reasonable borders upon the parties based upon where people actually live today, (not in 1948, 1967 or 2,000 years ago), and declare a Palestinian state on the West Bank whether the parties like it or not. The UN should enforce those borders with an armed UN force until the parties get used to the idea.
Jews, like the settlers, who find themselves on the Palestinian side of the line can move, or stay and become citizens of the State of Palestine and enjoy all of the rights and privileges accorded to all of the citizens of the State of Palestine, the Palestinian charter banning Jews aside. Israel has Arabs, Palestine can have Jews. It's the same thing.
You know what you get when you take peoples' property for no money and relegate them to refugee status? 68 years of war, not that Jews living under siege for 68 years have had it that so great.
All people, INCLUDING JEWS, who lost property as a result of the UN's creation of Israel should be compensated as under the legal Doctrine of Eminent Domain. You show up at a UN Middle East Compensation Commission office, present your claim, sign a Release and walk out with a check. That's fair.
Or you can go back to doing war for another 68 years.
The Middle East dilemma was created in 1948 by the UN when it imperfectly gave a state to Jews mostly at Palestinian expense to make recompense for what the Germans did. The UN needs to IMPOSE reasonable borders upon the parties based upon where people actually live today, (not in 1948, 1967 or 2,000 years ago), and declare a Palestinian state on the West Bank whether the parties like it or not. The UN should enforce those borders with an armed UN force until the parties get used to the idea.
Jews, like the settlers, who find themselves on the Palestinian side of the line can move, or stay and become citizens of the State of Palestine and enjoy all of the rights and privileges accorded to all of the citizens of the State of Palestine, the Palestinian charter banning Jews aside. Israel has Arabs, Palestine can have Jews. It's the same thing.
You know what you get when you take peoples' property for no money and relegate them to refugee status? 68 years of war, not that Jews living under siege for 68 years have had it that so great.
All people, INCLUDING JEWS, who lost property as a result of the UN's creation of Israel should be compensated as under the legal Doctrine of Eminent Domain. You show up at a UN Middle East Compensation Commission office, present your claim, sign a Release and walk out with a check. That's fair.
Or you can go back to doing war for another 68 years.
2
One cannot continue to see Israel as a democracy while untold regulations, laws, constraints, walls, prohibition, confiscations, unjust building denials go on. You can, if you wish, hold that we have the power now and we are going to use it for our benefit, but you can no longer pretend that you are part of a just society. There is no justice in oppression.
5
A country that has snubbed its nose at every UN Resolution criticizing its action is asking for approval of its discriminatory, illegal activities.
28
One of Israel's slogans is "Never Again", referring to the holocaust. But they do not care to look in the mirror and look what they are doing to the Palestinians.
Right wing Israel has a closed mind about what is right and what is wrong, when it comes to land, water and electricity, as well as the occupation of the West Bank, land that is NOT THEIRs. Any one with a neutral view or who values ethical and righteous behavior will be appalled what Israel is doing to the Palestinians. And then the Israelis should not wonder why some Palestinians are just frustrated and mad enough to strike out.
Right wing Israel has a closed mind about what is right and what is wrong, when it comes to land, water and electricity, as well as the occupation of the West Bank, land that is NOT THEIRs. Any one with a neutral view or who values ethical and righteous behavior will be appalled what Israel is doing to the Palestinians. And then the Israelis should not wonder why some Palestinians are just frustrated and mad enough to strike out.
27
End the occupation. It's nothing more but settler colonialism in redux. May this be the last anti-colonial battle of our time. #BDS
27
"May this be the last anti-colonial battle of our time"
Does this mean you want to ignore correcting the injustices of every other land dispute? Is this the only land dispute you actually care about and think is worth a fight? Or are you just ignorant to all of the other land disputes in the world? I wonder why the Tibetans aren't murdering the Chinese over the land dispute and the Chinese colonization of Tibet. I wonder why the same people who support the palestinian Arab cause completely ignore the Kurdish cause.
Does this mean you want to ignore correcting the injustices of every other land dispute? Is this the only land dispute you actually care about and think is worth a fight? Or are you just ignorant to all of the other land disputes in the world? I wonder why the Tibetans aren't murdering the Chinese over the land dispute and the Chinese colonization of Tibet. I wonder why the same people who support the palestinian Arab cause completely ignore the Kurdish cause.
2
Or the Palestinians could just accept a peace offer at some point, unlike the last four times that it was given.
2
"But nothing can excuse Israel's relentless,,," May I remind Roger Cohen and your readers that four times in the last 68 years Israel has with good faith sought to divide the land. Twice before the state was founded and twice most recently. All attempts resulted in failure due to Arab/Palestinian intransigence.
What can Israel do with a people who refuse to recognize it, when the slogan from the "river to the sea" calling for the total destruction of the Jewish State is their rallying cry? The day the Palestinians lay down their knives and weapons and recognize the Jewish State and renounce violence, and start building an infrastructure to support themselves in the future, and account for all the foreign aid in the billions that has poured into Palestinian pockets and has done little to help their people, but only enriched the corrupt elite, when these goals are finally accomplished, then and only then will the Jewish State of Israel feel comfortable enough to negotiate in good faith once again.
What country would put their head in a noose and hope for civility? Can Israel with good faith cede the West Bank with ISIS threatening them on their northern and eastern borders? Don't be so self-righteous with the lives of 6+ million Jews, not in this day and age.
What can Israel do with a people who refuse to recognize it, when the slogan from the "river to the sea" calling for the total destruction of the Jewish State is their rallying cry? The day the Palestinians lay down their knives and weapons and recognize the Jewish State and renounce violence, and start building an infrastructure to support themselves in the future, and account for all the foreign aid in the billions that has poured into Palestinian pockets and has done little to help their people, but only enriched the corrupt elite, when these goals are finally accomplished, then and only then will the Jewish State of Israel feel comfortable enough to negotiate in good faith once again.
What country would put their head in a noose and hope for civility? Can Israel with good faith cede the West Bank with ISIS threatening them on their northern and eastern borders? Don't be so self-righteous with the lives of 6+ million Jews, not in this day and age.
27
Can you really think about what you're saying. What do you mean
cede" the West Bank? No they should return stolen property.
Also there is good evidence that Israelis were equally responsible for the wars with the Arabs, and in the case of the 1967 war Israel was entirely responsible--the instigator. Ehud Barak offered Palestinians 90% of their own land while retaining 80% of the water rights. What kind of deal was that?
The bottom line however in Mr Cohen's article is that Israel can not continue to be a Jewish State and claim to be a democracy.
cede" the West Bank? No they should return stolen property.
Also there is good evidence that Israelis were equally responsible for the wars with the Arabs, and in the case of the 1967 war Israel was entirely responsible--the instigator. Ehud Barak offered Palestinians 90% of their own land while retaining 80% of the water rights. What kind of deal was that?
The bottom line however in Mr Cohen's article is that Israel can not continue to be a Jewish State and claim to be a democracy.
1
Roger Cohen has always been a passionate, eloquent, thoughtful advocate for Israel. What a convincing article this is; and lets hope it puts to rest the lie that he's been attacking: that pointing out the fallacies and harm of Likud policy action and Netanyahu right wing stance is anti-semitic. True anti-semitism and Israel-hurting behavior would be Netanyahu's anti-American former aide using such vicious language to describe America's ambassador to Israel.
18
Actually, no. Sometimes Roger Cohen ignores great chunks of history and presents deeply flawed and biased arguments towards Israel, as he does in this article. It's as if he's describing one of the many autocratic societies in the neighborhood, and not the pulsating democracy that is Israel. The same Israel that has tried time and time again to make peace, only to be rejected by false peace partners.
Unbalanced, Roger.
.
Unbalanced, Roger.
.
2
As soon as there is a Palestinian leader who can represent all Palestinians, this issue can be negotiated.
13
I suspect many Americans share my sense that Israel and Saudi Arabia are not allies in the same way Canada and most of our major EU allies are, but are much more exploitative of our relationship.
That's the drip you hear in the background if you pay attention.
Neither Israel nor Saudi Arabia is paying attention. At least we get petrodollars out of the Saudis....
That's the drip you hear in the background if you pay attention.
Neither Israel nor Saudi Arabia is paying attention. At least we get petrodollars out of the Saudis....
23
We get petrodollars and plenty of Wahabbi hatred out of SA.
1996, Netanyahu addressed a joint session of Congress where he darkly warned, “If Iran were to acquire nuclear weapons, this could presage catastrophic consequences, not only for my country, and not only for the Middle East, but for all mankind,” adding that, “the deadline for attaining this goal is getting extremely close.”
Testifying again in front of Congress in 2002, Netanyahu claimed that Iraq’s nonexistent nuclear program was in fact so advanced that the country was now operating “centrifuges the size of washing machines.”
Netanyahu said in 2002, "If you take out Saddam’s regime, I guarantee you that it will have enormous positive reverberations on the region."
Why would anyone listen to Mr. Netanyahu?
Testifying again in front of Congress in 2002, Netanyahu claimed that Iraq’s nonexistent nuclear program was in fact so advanced that the country was now operating “centrifuges the size of washing machines.”
Netanyahu said in 2002, "If you take out Saddam’s regime, I guarantee you that it will have enormous positive reverberations on the region."
Why would anyone listen to Mr. Netanyahu?
34
Because he knows more than Obama does.
Do you know he went to Harvard and MIT.
Name me even one other head of state who is smarter than he is.
Do you know he went to Harvard and MIT.
Name me even one other head of state who is smarter than he is.
2
During the Viet-Nam War, there was the idea of "America right or wrong." This concept now appears to be the basis for the present government's idea that if you don't support their policies, you are anti-Israeli or anti-Semitic. I strongly believe that a fair and equitable move to a two state solution would greatly help both sides and eventually curb the crazy move to extremism on both sides.
8
Israel has done everything to make peace with the Arabs and has on a number of occasions offered the Arabs of the West Bank and Gaza a homeland in Palestine. All offers were rejected without any counteroffer. Instead Israel has been met with violence and vilification from a world never wild about Jews and supported by the apostate Jews who try to lend credibility to accusations that in any other context- i.e., not involving Jews- would be seen as irrational vilification.
As for the "Jew boy" remark, black people have had their "Uncle Toms" and Jews have had their Daniel Shapiros. Nothing more, nothing less.
As for the "Jew boy" remark, black people have had their "Uncle Toms" and Jews have had their Daniel Shapiros. Nothing more, nothing less.
17
From the moment that Israel was recreated. the Arabs and mostly Muslim mantra was to drive the Jews into the sea. Except for a few lonely Arab voices. nothing has changed. Cohen implies an occupation mentality among the West Bank Palestinians. What about a siege mentality among the Israelis? (And by the way, I am glad the Times changed its original, patently offensive headline for Cohen's online opinion.)
17
The Zionists unilaterally created Israel out of Palestine.
If that had happened here in the US, a lot of Americans would have reacted the same as those Palestinians you describe.
If that had happened here in the US, a lot of Americans would have reacted the same as those Palestinians you describe.
2
The UN created Israel out of part of the British Mandate. Palestine was never a nation or a state.
1
January 28 2016
Issues: Biblical, Shakespearean, and just good old fashion temporal politics on earth; least we not ignore our stars for destiny that writes its light to shine for deeds and always the eternal bonds for all mankind neighbors.
jja Manhattan, N. Y.
Issues: Biblical, Shakespearean, and just good old fashion temporal politics on earth; least we not ignore our stars for destiny that writes its light to shine for deeds and always the eternal bonds for all mankind neighbors.
jja Manhattan, N. Y.
2
I have been to Israel many times and once narrowly escaped a terrorist attack so I have some sense of the situation in Israel.
Nothing will change for the Palestinians until they sign a peace agreement. They should have had a state in 1947 but they decided to attack Israel instead. In 2000 Arafat turned down Camp David. There was 2001 in Taba, 2008 with Olmert. In 2006, when given the right to vote the Palestinians chose Hamas, a terrorist organization to lead them and a Palestinian Hamas-Fatah Civil War ensued. There were supposed to be elections in 2010 but they have not happened.
In addition to their own 2006 civil war, the Palestinians have had trouble with Jordan, Lebanon, Kuwait, and Saudi Arabia. In September, 1970 the Palestinians attempted to overthrow the Jordanian government and 3,000 Palestinians were killed in the battle. In 1976 Palestinians massacred an estimated 582 civilians in Damour, Lebanon. Before the 1991 Gulf War, the Palestinians were kicked out of Kuwait and Saudi Arabia.
Pressuring or blaming Israel for Palestinians refusal to sign peace agreements will not create peace in Israel nor help the Palestinians achieve their own state. The Palestinians need to want their own state and prove it by electing leadership that will sign a peace agreement.
Nothing will change for the Palestinians until they sign a peace agreement. They should have had a state in 1947 but they decided to attack Israel instead. In 2000 Arafat turned down Camp David. There was 2001 in Taba, 2008 with Olmert. In 2006, when given the right to vote the Palestinians chose Hamas, a terrorist organization to lead them and a Palestinian Hamas-Fatah Civil War ensued. There were supposed to be elections in 2010 but they have not happened.
In addition to their own 2006 civil war, the Palestinians have had trouble with Jordan, Lebanon, Kuwait, and Saudi Arabia. In September, 1970 the Palestinians attempted to overthrow the Jordanian government and 3,000 Palestinians were killed in the battle. In 1976 Palestinians massacred an estimated 582 civilians in Damour, Lebanon. Before the 1991 Gulf War, the Palestinians were kicked out of Kuwait and Saudi Arabia.
Pressuring or blaming Israel for Palestinians refusal to sign peace agreements will not create peace in Israel nor help the Palestinians achieve their own state. The Palestinians need to want their own state and prove it by electing leadership that will sign a peace agreement.
22
All colonial settler states are based on the violent dispossession of the native peoples – and as a result, their fundamental and overriding aim has always been to keep those native peoples as weak as possible. Israel’s aim for the Palestinians is no different.
Palestinian statehood is clearly an obstacle to this goal; a Palestinian state would strengthen the Palestinians. Genuine sovereignty would end Israel’s current presumed right to steal their land, control their borders, place them under siege, and bomb them at will. That is why Netanyahu’s Likud party platform “flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river.”; that is why Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated for even suggesting some limited self-governance for the Palestinians; and that is why every proposal for Palestinian statehood, however limited and conditional, has been wilfully sabotaged by successive Israeli governments of all hues.
as they can” in order to minimise the size and viability of the area to be administered by Palestinian Authority. The 1999 election of a Labour Prime Minister, Ehud Barak, made no difference, ushecommitment by Israel’s government to avoid full compliance with the Oslo agreement”, according to Jimmy Carter, most notably in the form of the greatest increase in illegal Israeli settlements that had yet taken place.
Palestinian statehood is clearly an obstacle to this goal; a Palestinian state would strengthen the Palestinians. Genuine sovereignty would end Israel’s current presumed right to steal their land, control their borders, place them under siege, and bomb them at will. That is why Netanyahu’s Likud party platform “flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river.”; that is why Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated for even suggesting some limited self-governance for the Palestinians; and that is why every proposal for Palestinian statehood, however limited and conditional, has been wilfully sabotaged by successive Israeli governments of all hues.
as they can” in order to minimise the size and viability of the area to be administered by Palestinian Authority. The 1999 election of a Labour Prime Minister, Ehud Barak, made no difference, ushecommitment by Israel’s government to avoid full compliance with the Oslo agreement”, according to Jimmy Carter, most notably in the form of the greatest increase in illegal Israeli settlements that had yet taken place.
2
All is well over there, and according to many Republican Presidential candidates, Israel is "threatened" and the US should do even more to protect democracy in the middle east - because ours works very well here and it works even better with more money for the candidates who support Israel, no matter what!
11
For all the anti-Semites who deep down are scared of Israel values,intellect and invention. In 1967 ,Jordan launched an attack on Israel from their territory which included the West Bank! They lost the war in 6 days. Israel is not occupying anything, hence we should give back lands to the American Indians.Look at Russia with Crimea... That's occupation.
20
Good point. And Israel has given back land it won in other wars.
4
We don't say Donald Trump has an "image" problem.
His "problem" is who he is, and what he says, thinks and does.
Similarly, actions and policies are what Israel's problems are.
If it wants a new "image," it first needs to change its actions, policies and rhetoric.
His "problem" is who he is, and what he says, thinks and does.
Similarly, actions and policies are what Israel's problems are.
If it wants a new "image," it first needs to change its actions, policies and rhetoric.
23
Roger, you mention “’one-state reality.’ That reality is one in which Israel cannot remain a Jewish and democratic state.” This is the conventional wisdom that a single state including Israel and the Palestinian territories, if democratic, would inevitably have a Palestinian majority. This is a correlative of the conventional wisdom that Palestinian birth rates are and will remain higher than Jewish birth rates.
But, what if the Israeli right considers this to be a challenge rather than a fact of life? What if they plan to win a demographic war? Consider:
Expanding settlements serving to draw immigrants likely to support radical-right political parties.
Encouragement of high birth rates among those conservative communities.
Netanyahu’s invitation to French Jews to move to Israel – likely to appeal to those fearful of Muslims and inclined to perceive anti-Semitism in Europe.
Imposition of ever more legal liabilities upon Palestinian citizens of Israel and liberal Jewish activists in Israel.
Ultra-Orthodox communities around the world sending young adults to Israel in large numbers.
Making life sufficiently unpleasant that Palestinians and even left-leaning Jews will emigrate.
Preventing rapprochement between the West Bank and Gaza and setting the stage for a one-state solution that would exclude Gaza.
A one-state solution with equal voting rights for all, but with an assured right-wing majority and limited protection for minorities, just might be achievable.
But, what if the Israeli right considers this to be a challenge rather than a fact of life? What if they plan to win a demographic war? Consider:
Expanding settlements serving to draw immigrants likely to support radical-right political parties.
Encouragement of high birth rates among those conservative communities.
Netanyahu’s invitation to French Jews to move to Israel – likely to appeal to those fearful of Muslims and inclined to perceive anti-Semitism in Europe.
Imposition of ever more legal liabilities upon Palestinian citizens of Israel and liberal Jewish activists in Israel.
Ultra-Orthodox communities around the world sending young adults to Israel in large numbers.
Making life sufficiently unpleasant that Palestinians and even left-leaning Jews will emigrate.
Preventing rapprochement between the West Bank and Gaza and setting the stage for a one-state solution that would exclude Gaza.
A one-state solution with equal voting rights for all, but with an assured right-wing majority and limited protection for minorities, just might be achievable.
5
Yeah, that's the pipe-dream for the settler-movement. But it isn't going to work, can't work. The extreme-settlers are economic parasites on Israel; they produce almost nothing, don't fight in the military (making much more secular and liberal Israelis fight for them), and they're generally ill-educated.
The end-game for Israel is when the educated secular Jews start to flee in yet another diaspora, because they see that they cannot carry the crazed anymore, and also see what's coming.
The end-game for Israel is when the educated secular Jews start to flee in yet another diaspora, because they see that they cannot carry the crazed anymore, and also see what's coming.
For once it seems to be a balanced Opinion page... Both sides must face the reality that the current state can not endure. Stop using the term "settlers" and settlements. Under the Geneva Convention it clearly calls this an "occupation".
19
It's not just younger American Jews. Lots of us older American Jews have given up on Israel. It's just another foreign country to me. I identify more with other foreign countries like the UK, which has given me the language I love and the governmental traditions I admire. I feel I have more common values with the majority of Germans -- Germans! -- than I do with the majority of Israeli Jews. I do admire the Israelis in groups like B'Tselem and the left-wing political parties, but they seem like a shrinking and powerless minority in today's Israel.
Israel's actions have managed to so alienate an ardent teenage Zionist in the 1960s like myself into somewhere between indifference and contempt.
Israel's actions have managed to so alienate an ardent teenage Zionist in the 1960s like myself into somewhere between indifference and contempt.
25
I am one of those younger Jews disillusioned with Israel and its antidemocratic policies. As a child I participated in drives to plant trees in Jerusalem and was surrounded by posters advertising the country as almost an agrarian utopia. Now, with a prime minister raised not 20 minutes from where I grew up, Israel feels less like its own country and more like what the world will look like if the neoconservatives took over completely. I no longer support ANY movement there. BDS, AIPAC, J Street: none are effective. The country is broken. I divest myself of the whole struggle and encourage other younger Jews to do the same.
23
Even in America, Israel is what keeps you safe as a Jew because it gives you somewhere to go if, as a minority, the majority government turns on you or does not protect you well enough. Ask the French Jews!
2
the region is filled with people and governments that seem intent on war. I see both, or all, sides as unwilling to find peace. I cannot side with either any longer and hope America can just walk away because their is currently no hope of peace. while both are to blame and both need to change the upper hand belongs to the stronger Isreal. their capacity to make life so difficult amounts to unjust oppression. I want more from each side but expect it more from Israel. they have failed at projecting a serious desire for peace and while constantly threatened by the violence the other side is so guilty of I cannot concur with the economic violence Israel levels on children.
4
A previous Israeli government when Ehud Barak was P.M., made extraordinary concessions to Yasir Arafat. But the concessions were apparently insufficient, and what Israel got in return was the Intifada. Barak's government fell and Netanyahu ascended the throne. Despite what Netanyahu has to say to keep American [military] support flowing, one thing is clear: he is a Zionist and does not intend to concede the West Bank to anyone other than Jews. Moderating voices on both sides have been drowned out and the militant Islamists (not representative of most Palestinians) continue to give Netanyahu all the reasons he needs to continue his hard line on negotiations. For neither side has the pain apparently become so unbearable that the alternative of peace can be considered. People, we are told, change only when they see change to be in their best interest. In that tiny strip of land called Palestine by some and Israel by others, change is not yet seen to be in everyone's best interest.
2
One more small step toward the truth by the NYTs. How many years has it taken to get here? How many more before the fog clears and the majority of the earth's people see clearly?
12
The basic premise of Cohen's essay is false. Before settlements existed, the Palestinians rejected Israel. Lets not forget that the reasons for the settlements was to protect the state, and they served the purpose. They survived through left wing and moderate Israeli governments as well (Peres, Rabin, etc.). To be honest, the Palestinians have never given Israelis reason to believe that they are willing to stop incitement to violence or to allow Israel to live in peace. In fact, they have rejected every offer given to make a permanent peace and allied themselves with the most radical middle eastern elements. Unless that changes, the status quo will not.
19
The recent PBS Frontline documentary on Benjamin Netanyahu's life was instructive. Even as a more liberally oriented news magazine it clearly showed how from the very start of his Administration that President Obama has purposely offended Israel. It started with his surprising start of first term Cairo embrace of Islamic leaders that didn't include a stop over in nearby Jerusalem, a speech he didn't even warn our ally that was on the way. It continued with his ongoing public and private disrespect for Israel's leader in his visits to Washington, and it of course culminated with Obama's disastrous deal to open the spigot of money flowing into the coffers of the Iranian mullahs. The image issue, I would argue, is on the U.S. side, thanks to the distancing Obama has done from Israel. No wonder his lackeys aren't afforded the utmost of respect as fair intermediaries to Israel.
14
Is balderdash too strong a word for the NYT? Ever since I got off the plane at Ben Gurion more than two years ago, the thing that has surprised me most about Israelis is the widespread notion, taken as received Scripture the more conservative they are, that Obama hates Israel. The Netanyahu government pounds this theme relentlessly, so much so that if you contradict one of the believers, they think you're crazy. The facts, as opposed to the propaganda, include the $3 billion check annually to Israel -- a check that Obama signs every year -- the thousands of American military and civilians who support the IDF in various, often classified ways (living in southern Israel you see this just about every day) -- the support that Obama gives Israel in the UN (yes, he's only vetoed one anti-Israel Security Council resolution, because there's only been one in his tenure, due to his administration's ability to keep such resolutions from coming to a vote in the first place) -- the support Obama gave Israel in its last war with Hamas (which I witnessed), etc. etc. etc. Whatever the role Israel's policies play in this, the one fact shouts from the rooftops, that the poison in the relationship is the venom of the Netanyahu government. Bibi Netanyahu, who plays a tough guy on TV, and yet, if you look carefully, was clearly clueless in the last Gaza war. But I have to give him credit for his propaganda machine.
2
It’s appropriate to condemn Israel’s enforcement of unequal status between Israelis and Palestinians – one set citizens and the other not; one set entitled and supported, the other subjugated. But that consideration shouldn’t ignore that offers were made by Israel in the past that would have created two sovereign states, and that they were rejected by Yasser Arafat for fear that Hamas would murder him in revenge – which some suggest may have been his fate anyway. It also ignores the very real possibility than any other Palestinian who sought to secure the same objective through serious negotiations would suffer the same fate.
Israel clearly has defined as a basic interest sovereignty over all the land between the Jordan River and the Med: Judea and Samaria. This presents the intractable problem of what to do with Palestinians living there. Israel addresses the problem by ignoring it and protecting their own against violent resistance. But if nothing changes in how the world views this reality, then nothing will change on the ground. In the end, if the world wishes to see change, it will need to alter its relationship to Israel until the cost of pursuing that basic interest becomes higher than Israel is willing to pay. Roger suggests some ways of doing that.
But let’s not forget that other problem: even if Israel is effectively motivated to show more balance in its treatment of Palestinians, the question remains of Palestinian tribalism and unreadiness for nation status.
Israel clearly has defined as a basic interest sovereignty over all the land between the Jordan River and the Med: Judea and Samaria. This presents the intractable problem of what to do with Palestinians living there. Israel addresses the problem by ignoring it and protecting their own against violent resistance. But if nothing changes in how the world views this reality, then nothing will change on the ground. In the end, if the world wishes to see change, it will need to alter its relationship to Israel until the cost of pursuing that basic interest becomes higher than Israel is willing to pay. Roger suggests some ways of doing that.
But let’s not forget that other problem: even if Israel is effectively motivated to show more balance in its treatment of Palestinians, the question remains of Palestinian tribalism and unreadiness for nation status.
12
"they were rejected by Yasser Arafat for fear that Hamas would murder him in revenge" Can you document that? Perhaps the deal was rejected by Arafat because the deal was not just.
Most Jews in and outside Israel want to see Israel as a thriving state, an economic giant with a vibrant democracy, safe and secure, capable of defending itself, and deterring any enemy far and near from challenging its right to exist, with or without foreign assistance, at peace with its neighbors, respected by the international community, excelling in Sadaqah, caring about others, a beacon of light unto other nations.
Israel has never forcibly removed any people that were not causing a public safety hazard, only removes buildings that are built without a permit or in retaliation for terrorist actions, these retaliatory demolitions are used to offset the reward the Palestinian Authority gives to the families of terrorists. There are no Jewish only roads, but there are checkpoints to stop terrorists. I support Israel in her self-restraint, this should be seen as a sign of strength and not weakness as it often is. Israel is in a tough situation, in a very complex problem. Do you give full citizenship to people who want to kill you? Read the Hamas Charter, then ask yourself, do you expect Jews to become slaves in their own homeland, allowing Israel to lose their Jewish identity, and Israel to become another Muslim country? Should Jews ever be expected pay Jizya, or be afflicted with Sharia Law in their homeland? Removing the IDF from the Gaza Strip did not work, and it will not work in Judea and Samaria.
Israel has never forcibly removed any people that were not causing a public safety hazard, only removes buildings that are built without a permit or in retaliation for terrorist actions, these retaliatory demolitions are used to offset the reward the Palestinian Authority gives to the families of terrorists. There are no Jewish only roads, but there are checkpoints to stop terrorists. I support Israel in her self-restraint, this should be seen as a sign of strength and not weakness as it often is. Israel is in a tough situation, in a very complex problem. Do you give full citizenship to people who want to kill you? Read the Hamas Charter, then ask yourself, do you expect Jews to become slaves in their own homeland, allowing Israel to lose their Jewish identity, and Israel to become another Muslim country? Should Jews ever be expected pay Jizya, or be afflicted with Sharia Law in their homeland? Removing the IDF from the Gaza Strip did not work, and it will not work in Judea and Samaria.
4
Can you document how the deal was not just? Where was the counter offer then?
2
Forget about Israel's image - it's the rub-off on America that's worrisome. Already has caused 9/11, several embassy bombings, the Global War on Terror, our stupid War on Iraq, etc.
21
The longer this goes on (49 years with no end in sight) the more it looks like the European conquest of North America ca. 1600-1900; periods of intense conflict followed by relative peace, atrocities on both sides, and the inexorable spread of one group, ending in total dominion with the losing side confined to fragments of their former territory.
6
He is right, in a back-handed way. One cannot be progressive and support Israel any longer, unless being progressive equates with the discrimination, segregation, and racism of what it calls 'Jewish Settlements,' that exclude all others from buying, renting, or living therein - that is apartheid once walled off and militarized as well. If these 'Settlements' were not the subject of overt discrimination and prejudice, then, yes, it would be different. Modern folks do not support this sort of activity, witness So. Africa, elsewhere, that practiced such racism. No, there is no argument with this, no, it is not at all unreasonable, it is true, period, no honest retort possible - none. Closed case.
11
Vintage Cohen: cite only organizations with known, well-earned reputations for anti-Israeli invective (e.g., HRW, J Street and the UN), amplify their polemics and add one throwaway sentence toward the end (1st sentence, penultimate paragraph) to proffer the pretense of balance.
True to form Roger, true to form.
True to form Roger, true to form.
14
J street is not anti-jewish or anti-semitic! The organization is anti-zionist which is the political wing of Judaism!
Sort of like Republicans and right-wing Evangelicals!
Religion poisons everything!
Sort of like Republicans and right-wing Evangelicals!
Religion poisons everything!
1
I fully agree with Roger Cohen's comments on Israel's flatly discriminatory and unacceptable policies vis-a-vis the Palestinians in the occupied West Bank. I would like to add, however, that the reality of the situation is that even with the discriminatory policies the Jewish state will not be able to get rid of its Palestinian Muslim subjects. The misgovernment that exists in all neighboring countries guarantees that even the apartheid Israeli policies -that's what they are, let's not hide the fact, I have seen them with my own eyes- are preferable to life in say, Jordan or Egypt, let alone Saudi Arabia or Syria. The Jewish state is the only one in the Middle East that has a functioning democratic government. So, what is happening now in the West Bank leads nowhere, even by the Jewish extremists' standards.
2
The original two state solution:
The Arabs get Jordan (77% of the British mandate)
The Jewish people get Israel (23% of the British mandate)
That is how The British mandate of Palestine was divided in 1921.
Three tribes of Israel used to live in what is now called Jordan. Jordan ethnically cleansed all Jews from Jordan. Jordan's constitution says they have freedom of religion, but the government does not allow people to convert from Islam. The Tribe of Manasseh was from around the Syrian Jordan border to Mahanaim (Balqa and Zarqa). From around the northern border Jabesh Gilead [Wadi el-Yabis (the River Jabesh) emerges into the plain of the Jordan Valley, or Tell al-Maqlub] down to around Madaba was of the Tribe of Gad.Then the Tribe of Reuben went down to Bezer (the ruined village of Burazin) and Aroer a town that was on the north bank of the River Arnon to the east of the Dead Sea.
Palestinians are a made up people. Palestine was British, and then it became Jordan and Israel. UNRWA is a terrorist organization that was created to destroy Israel. All other refugees are handled by UNHCR. UNRWA is making up refugees and calling them Palestinians in the hopes that if a peace agreement is reached with Israel, that these so called "Palestinian refugees" can enter Palestine if such a place is ever created, and shift the demographics of Israel into Muslims favor.
The Arabs get Jordan (77% of the British mandate)
The Jewish people get Israel (23% of the British mandate)
That is how The British mandate of Palestine was divided in 1921.
Three tribes of Israel used to live in what is now called Jordan. Jordan ethnically cleansed all Jews from Jordan. Jordan's constitution says they have freedom of religion, but the government does not allow people to convert from Islam. The Tribe of Manasseh was from around the Syrian Jordan border to Mahanaim (Balqa and Zarqa). From around the northern border Jabesh Gilead [Wadi el-Yabis (the River Jabesh) emerges into the plain of the Jordan Valley, or Tell al-Maqlub] down to around Madaba was of the Tribe of Gad.Then the Tribe of Reuben went down to Bezer (the ruined village of Burazin) and Aroer a town that was on the north bank of the River Arnon to the east of the Dead Sea.
Palestinians are a made up people. Palestine was British, and then it became Jordan and Israel. UNRWA is a terrorist organization that was created to destroy Israel. All other refugees are handled by UNHCR. UNRWA is making up refugees and calling them Palestinians in the hopes that if a peace agreement is reached with Israel, that these so called "Palestinian refugees" can enter Palestine if such a place is ever created, and shift the demographics of Israel into Muslims favor.
2
Israel offered it "subjects" a state time and again and they rejected it.
3
Yeah, well, then, I must also be a "little Jew boy," and proud of it. Just as I wonder what it is like to be a liberal in Oklahoma, I wonder what it is like for my fellow liberal Jews in Israel to live in a country that is increasingly intolerant, authoritarian, and unduly inflenced by religious extremists.
25
In the long run, the Sheldon Adelsons of the world will do much more damage to the state of Israel than Iran could ever dream.
The irony.
The irony.
28
Actually, people who actually believe a casino owner controls the strongest nation on earth will do much more damage than anyone could ever dream. But I suppose it's a lot more convenient and acceptable to blame one Jewish businessman for controlling the world rather than a vast Jewish banking conspiracy. No?
4
This article is the silver lance now badly missing in Israel; a pity really when many comments here with a deep sense of justice and humanity are soon forgotten again.
8
I'm not sure how J Street can call itself a pro-Israel, Jewish group and let itself be led by a Muslim. I'm a pretty open-minded person, but that strikes me as absurd. There are enough Muslim voices out there on these issues. A Jewish group should be led by Jewish voices.
15
I would think you would know why they don't hold elections. Last time they did Hamas won, and while I don't know of any recent polling, I don't expect the result to be much different if held today. I don't think condemning the recent spate of violence will endear Fatah to its citizens either, though it would the right thing to do. They have tried to build the institutions they need to make a state, perhaps not enough, but all they have received from the Israelis is more stamps of the boot and more settlements. And they certainly can't vote their rulers out of office, and their representatives can't remove Israel's boot from their throat. I'm not saying they are right but when you take all options but the sword to rectify the injustices done to them, you shouldn't be surprised when you get the sword.
3
It is the Arab nations such as Jordan that have created this problem. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/14/world/middleeast/14jordan.html
3
Reading the comments it becomes obvious that what is all right for a big country (Russia, China, USA for instance) is wrong for a small one. Each of these big ones has done what Israel is doing on the West Bank: expelling natives and taking over their land. Mind you, I am not saying that Israel is right to do it, but I deplore the double standards.
13
The "Palestinians" are not natives. They are an invented people that did not exist before the 1960's.
5
Except that the US did that in another century...
1
Except this land was historically Jewish to start with and an ancient native people are returning to it. Too bad it was passed on down from one conqueror to the next. Which indigenous people conquered North America and South America, Tibet, New Zealand, Australia, Chechnya, the Berbers of North Africa ... you get the idea. But considering Mohammed and his army brutally conquered and ethnically cleansed the Jewish city of Medina in the 7th Century turning it into Islam's second holiest city (not to mention the Arab Legion ethnically cleaning the ancient Jewish populations in Eastern Jerusalem and Hebron in 1948, let's consider it a fair trade. Eh?
5
The history of how the "Palestinian problem" is so manifoldly complex that I will only say that it was, to a significant degree, engineered by the surrounding powers to be a lever to use against Israel. Moreover, I am constantly awed by crazy disconnect of what is expected of Israel compared to what is being ignored, tolerated, and abetted in other countries of the world.
Nonetheless, I admit to perpetual dismay and ceaseless shock at SOME of the ways that Israel handles the Palestinians within its territories. How can a people characterized by millenia of obsessive attention to codifying and administering justice, unparalleled victimization by genocide and cruelty in modern times, and global generosity of spirit behave in this fashion? The torah alone carries literally dozens of admonishments to treat strangers in one's land fairly. I just don't get it.
I am a staunch supporter of Israel, but I am unable to see how the present path can possibly lead to a place that Israelis, even the most hawkish and intolerant, want to be.
Nonetheless, I admit to perpetual dismay and ceaseless shock at SOME of the ways that Israel handles the Palestinians within its territories. How can a people characterized by millenia of obsessive attention to codifying and administering justice, unparalleled victimization by genocide and cruelty in modern times, and global generosity of spirit behave in this fashion? The torah alone carries literally dozens of admonishments to treat strangers in one's land fairly. I just don't get it.
I am a staunch supporter of Israel, but I am unable to see how the present path can possibly lead to a place that Israelis, even the most hawkish and intolerant, want to be.
12
I agree with most of what you say here, but how can you possibly see the Palestinians as "strangers" in THEIR land?
2
Palestinians are not strangers in Palestine. Israelis are colonial occupiers there. They just use bible as manifest destiny
1
Ban Ki-Moon has it right. History teaches us that an occupied people will rebel with the weapons at hand. Netanyahu and his AIPAC supporters are destroying the good will so many of us have felt towards Israel. It is ironic that the only Jewish candidate for President, Bernie Sanders, has what AIPAC, most Republican candidates (Paul is an exception) and Hillary consider an anti Israel perspective. Sanders brings some sanity to this issue.
It is time for the US to change its policy towards Israel by stopping the loopholes that allow massive US taxpayer supported aid to settlements. That would be a good start.
It is time for the US to change its policy towards Israel by stopping the loopholes that allow massive US taxpayer supported aid to settlements. That would be a good start.
30
If they feel occupied, they should blame their own leaders, not Israel. They've had chance after chance for their own state, and turned it down every time.
3
It's time to stop the flow of US tax dollars to israel!
That's the only thing this rogue, nuclear state will understand?
That's the only thing this rogue, nuclear state will understand?
1
The San Remo Resolution 1920 says that Jordan is occupied Jewish land.
3
Iran will become a celebrated member of the international community, a country who fought ISIS on the ground, and contributed to the stability of the region while Israel teeters even closer to pariah state, clinging to its non-NPT nukes, it's illegal occupation and relying on a lone American veto in the United Nations to shield it.
The American veto in the UN Security Council is Israel's entire domestic strategy, wildly unsustainable. What brinksmanship! Lobbying for that veto has caused hundreds of millions of foreign interest dollars to flow into our political system for the sole purpose of advancing a backward policy of a foreign government.
Should Chinese-Americans be allowed to set up "domestic lobbies" to pour hundreds of millions into the American political system for the express purpose of sustaining China's occupation of Tibet?
If ACPAC (China) happened, Americans would undoubtedly complain that this Chinese-American effort, on behalf of a foreign nation, violates American campaign laws.
The direct flow of foreign interest money into the American political system is already causing serious friction and anger in the Democratic Party, where AIPAC is now a four letter word. The destruction Israel is causing to its own interests is obvious.
But, we need to ask ourselves a bigger question: will Chinese-Americans or Arab-Americans cite the Jewish-American precedent and bring their political battles to our shores and their dollars into our political system.
The American veto in the UN Security Council is Israel's entire domestic strategy, wildly unsustainable. What brinksmanship! Lobbying for that veto has caused hundreds of millions of foreign interest dollars to flow into our political system for the sole purpose of advancing a backward policy of a foreign government.
Should Chinese-Americans be allowed to set up "domestic lobbies" to pour hundreds of millions into the American political system for the express purpose of sustaining China's occupation of Tibet?
If ACPAC (China) happened, Americans would undoubtedly complain that this Chinese-American effort, on behalf of a foreign nation, violates American campaign laws.
The direct flow of foreign interest money into the American political system is already causing serious friction and anger in the Democratic Party, where AIPAC is now a four letter word. The destruction Israel is causing to its own interests is obvious.
But, we need to ask ourselves a bigger question: will Chinese-Americans or Arab-Americans cite the Jewish-American precedent and bring their political battles to our shores and their dollars into our political system.
10
"If ACPAC (China) happened, Americans would undoubtedly complain that this Chinese-American effort, on behalf of a foreign nation, violates American campaign laws."
If anyone bothered to read G Washington's farewell speech, we would not be in this situation with israel!
If anyone bothered to read G Washington's farewell speech, we would not be in this situation with israel!
Israel has had almost 50 years to figure out how to exploit its unexpected occupation of Palestinian territory as a bargaining chip to ensure a future of peace. It has failed miserably so far; it is arguable that these 50 years have left it worse off than in 1966. This is what happens when a country has no statesmen or stateswomen.
13
Many people think the UN created Israel. This is not true. The historical League of Nations document "Mandate for Palestine" 1922, gave the Jewish people the legal right under international law to settle anywhere in western Palestine, the area between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea. This is still international law today. Fifty-one countries, the entire League of Nations, unanimously voted in favor of this document on July 24, 1922.
"Whereas recognition has been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country."
THIS IS THE LAW.
"Whereas recognition has been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country."
THIS IS THE LAW.
2
It failed why?.... Because the Palestinians rejected every peace offer?
3
Is this an image problem?
The Arab and Muslim and Islamic nations have never recognized the legitimacy of the State of Israel. This lack of recognition led to several formal wars of annihilation against the Jewish State in the 1940's, 1950's, 1960's and 1970's. There have been many informal wars and skirmishes of annihilation against the Jewish states and Jews around the world from the citizens of these same Arab & Muslim and Islamic nations. Only Egypt and Jordan have recently recognized the legitimacy of the Jewish State to exist, although they still teach hatred and degradation of Jews in their Mosques and Schools and Universities.
Yet, with all this hatred and animosity and desire for death and annihilation directed to the Jewish State and Jews around the world, Mr. Cohen insists this is but an 'image' problem which would be solved as soon as Israel pulls back to the indefensible 1967 lines allowing Jerusalem and all the captured territories to be sovereigned by peoples who work for Israel and the Jews annihilation.
Stating that the Jews and Israel have an image problem is akin to calling a kettle black due to the millennial problem of antisemitism. No land returned to the Israeli Arabs or acquiescence of the Jews short of leaving the planet will cure the image problem of the Jews or Israel.
The Arab and Muslim and Islamic nations have never recognized the legitimacy of the State of Israel. This lack of recognition led to several formal wars of annihilation against the Jewish State in the 1940's, 1950's, 1960's and 1970's. There have been many informal wars and skirmishes of annihilation against the Jewish states and Jews around the world from the citizens of these same Arab & Muslim and Islamic nations. Only Egypt and Jordan have recently recognized the legitimacy of the Jewish State to exist, although they still teach hatred and degradation of Jews in their Mosques and Schools and Universities.
Yet, with all this hatred and animosity and desire for death and annihilation directed to the Jewish State and Jews around the world, Mr. Cohen insists this is but an 'image' problem which would be solved as soon as Israel pulls back to the indefensible 1967 lines allowing Jerusalem and all the captured territories to be sovereigned by peoples who work for Israel and the Jews annihilation.
Stating that the Jews and Israel have an image problem is akin to calling a kettle black due to the millennial problem of antisemitism. No land returned to the Israeli Arabs or acquiescence of the Jews short of leaving the planet will cure the image problem of the Jews or Israel.
23
There is a big difference between (1) maintaining security forces in the West Bank for defense and (2) settlement of that territory with persons who are granted full Israeli citizenship rights that the indigenous inhabitants don't have. It is the latter that the world vigorously opposes.
1
Please justify the stealing of Palestininan lands for Jewish occupier expansion.
Ah, gee whiz. Is "the image of Israel" really at issue? The Jews of Israel are different from the Jews in America for the same reason that the Muslims in America are different than their brothers in the Middle East.
We are all still tribal. The big Muslim tribe wishes to destroy the small Jewish tribe. So it has been, so it will be. At least until American exceptionalism creates Jeffersonian democracy among the Sunni-Shi'a.
So, whee is the column on the "Arab image issue"? You know, the one in which Arabs have to explain lauding not only the knifing murders of pregnant Jewish women, but their currently revanchist culture which permits death cults in the name of Islam, and permits beheadings and political imprisonments and torture in the name of the greater good of the ummah.
I remain fiarly comfortable with the "israeli image" of providing electricty to Gaza during a war in which hamas decidely calls for the annhiliation of all Jews in Israel (leaving aside those harmless descriptions of us as "monkeys" and "pigs").
An image problem for Israel? Who cares. When the Times repents for its anti-
Semitic graph during the Iran nuclear debate displaying the voting patterns of Jewish represented districts, along with the graphs of "disproportionate force" when missiles are aimed at Israeli kindergartens NOT in Judea and Samaria but merely in pre-67 Israel, then I'll worry about my image.
Till then, Je sui Charlie, and Je sui Juif.
We are all still tribal. The big Muslim tribe wishes to destroy the small Jewish tribe. So it has been, so it will be. At least until American exceptionalism creates Jeffersonian democracy among the Sunni-Shi'a.
So, whee is the column on the "Arab image issue"? You know, the one in which Arabs have to explain lauding not only the knifing murders of pregnant Jewish women, but their currently revanchist culture which permits death cults in the name of Islam, and permits beheadings and political imprisonments and torture in the name of the greater good of the ummah.
I remain fiarly comfortable with the "israeli image" of providing electricty to Gaza during a war in which hamas decidely calls for the annhiliation of all Jews in Israel (leaving aside those harmless descriptions of us as "monkeys" and "pigs").
An image problem for Israel? Who cares. When the Times repents for its anti-
Semitic graph during the Iran nuclear debate displaying the voting patterns of Jewish represented districts, along with the graphs of "disproportionate force" when missiles are aimed at Israeli kindergartens NOT in Judea and Samaria but merely in pre-67 Israel, then I'll worry about my image.
Till then, Je sui Charlie, and Je sui Juif.
25
I do not believe-in the miraculous/divine intervention.
I do not blame Israeli voters for their rightist government, because if I lived there, I'd probably not be humanistic/left-liberal, probably just depressed, cynical and pessimistic (as I am living here).
I do not blame Israeli voters for their rightist government, because if I lived there, I'd probably not be humanistic/left-liberal, probably just depressed, cynical and pessimistic (as I am living here).
7
Bravo. Couldn't agree more. As I jewish american, I think Israel needs to be isolated as much as is diplomatically possible. And the U.S. should cease the $3 bn. in aid to Israel b/c it is just used to build settlements, wholly contrary to american interests. Anyway, Israel is a very wealthy country, and that money is badly needed by our american veterans.
37
The echoes of apartheid South Africa are real
We should stop any further military aid to Israel, in the first place they do not need it, more importantly we can spend it more wisely in helping our own people.
Flint Michigan would be a start , a federal loan to Michigan to be used to replace all the lead pipes with immediate effect.
The loan to be repaid over 20 years by levying a tax surcharge on all high earning taxpayers in Michigan.
This will send a clear message to both Netanyahu and Snyder that they cannot treat the poor and oppressed with total disregard for their well being
We should stop any further military aid to Israel, in the first place they do not need it, more importantly we can spend it more wisely in helping our own people.
Flint Michigan would be a start , a federal loan to Michigan to be used to replace all the lead pipes with immediate effect.
The loan to be repaid over 20 years by levying a tax surcharge on all high earning taxpayers in Michigan.
This will send a clear message to both Netanyahu and Snyder that they cannot treat the poor and oppressed with total disregard for their well being
21
Roger Cohen hit that one out of the ballpark, the constant denial and feigned ignorance toward Israel's policies towards their Arab countrymen is a poorly designed attempt to rewrite history.
Someday the world will look back in collective shame for this crime against humanity.
What on Earth would allow the good people that govern the Western Democracies to tactily consent to this behavior ?
Is it collective guilt held over from our fathers time ?
Is it a conspiracy to slowly annialate these people?
Or is it blatant greed?
All of these reasons could play a part in the question, HOWEVER, the real question is what is the world to do about it ?
Someday the world will look back in collective shame for this crime against humanity.
What on Earth would allow the good people that govern the Western Democracies to tactily consent to this behavior ?
Is it collective guilt held over from our fathers time ?
Is it a conspiracy to slowly annialate these people?
Or is it blatant greed?
All of these reasons could play a part in the question, HOWEVER, the real question is what is the world to do about it ?
8
Stop funding israel and sending weapons would be a good start!
1
I would like to know what the world is going to do about:
ISIS
The Taliban
Saudia Arabia
Many horrible regimes in Africa
etc
etc
etc
One cannot help but wonder why Israel is being singled out for behavior that is relatively mild and is no less than what many western nations have engaged in.
ISIS
The Taliban
Saudia Arabia
Many horrible regimes in Africa
etc
etc
etc
One cannot help but wonder why Israel is being singled out for behavior that is relatively mild and is no less than what many western nations have engaged in.
2
Pressure the Palestinians to accept Israel and make peace. This really isn't that complicated.
3
Denying the natural divine equal certain unalienable rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness of 6 million Christian Muslim Arab Palestinians under Israeli dominion by occupation, blockade/siege, exile and 2nd class citizenship is a reality than cannot be imagined nor imaged away. Israel can either be a Jewish or a democratic state. It cannot be both.
15
Have you been living under rock for about the past year or even 60? Arabs living in Israel have the same rights the Jews do. They can even have the same jobs, vote, and run for political office in Israel. If you followed the last Knesset election in Israel, there was an Arab party that won the third largest number of seats for the Knesset. If Israel was truly an apartheid country, then this would never be the case. BTW, there are even more Arabs that are joining the Israeli military and they don't even feel ashamed by doing so. Perhaps, the draft should start to include them as it already does for most Israeli Jewish men and women.
2
"Palestinian leaders...cease...retreat into victimhood....". What is a victim to do? What does "retreat into victimhood" mean? Roger: Today in Israel, who would you rather be, a Palestinian or an Israeli?
Israel has no intention of allowing the existence of a Palestinian state. The "settlements" are not transitive phenomena, and continuing to view them as such is disingenuous at best.
Israel has no intention of allowing the existence of a Palestinian state. The "settlements" are not transitive phenomena, and continuing to view them as such is disingenuous at best.
11
If Israel has no intention of allowing a Palestinian state then why did they offer peace to them in 1999, 2000 and 2008?
3
It is time for a one-state solution. The Palestinians will have Netanyahu and his poodles in Washington to thank for that when all said and done.
One state. One man/woman, one vote. The next generation of Israelis and Palestinians (most of whom are sane thankfully), are ready for a post-apartheid state ala present day SA. They only need to makes sure o not let the old racist generation in charge from either side.
The biggest benefit of this transition will be to the United States. No longer will our congress be held hostage by a foreign country and our children of Jewish backgrounds be bussed to Jerusalem to be indoctrinated in Jewish madrassas annually about the superiority of the Jewish religon.
One state. One man/woman, one vote. The next generation of Israelis and Palestinians (most of whom are sane thankfully), are ready for a post-apartheid state ala present day SA. They only need to makes sure o not let the old racist generation in charge from either side.
The biggest benefit of this transition will be to the United States. No longer will our congress be held hostage by a foreign country and our children of Jewish backgrounds be bussed to Jerusalem to be indoctrinated in Jewish madrassas annually about the superiority of the Jewish religon.
20
That "one state" solution should function about as well as that other "one state" solution, the "Islamic State," a.k.a. Iraq/Syria. Those who send their children out with knives to stab Israeli children and are hardly rational, should expect that the I.D.F. and police, in defense of Israel's civilian population, will shoot them, as is often the case. If Palestinians are unwilling to accept a two, or given Palestinian divisions, three state, solution and it must be a "one to the exclusion of the other" proposition, then Israel, in the interest of preserving its national sovereignty and territorial integrity, may continue the occupation and remain the "Single State." See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uti_possidetis
Palestinians never sought a state of their own between 1949 and 1967, during the Egyptian/Jordanian occupation. They have always been occupied and incapable of self government.
The irony of you comment is that Israel, which is 75% Jewish, has always been majority ruled. In contrast, Palestinian dictators (Mahmoud Abbas of Fatah which rules the West Bank, is now in the 11th year of the four year term to which he was elected in 2005; Ismael Haniyeh of Hamas, which rules Gaza, is now in the 9th year of the five year term to which he was elected in 2007.). There have been no Palestinian elections since 2007. Before criticizing the Israeli practice of democracy, Palestinians must learn to practice it at home!
Palestinians never sought a state of their own between 1949 and 1967, during the Egyptian/Jordanian occupation. They have always been occupied and incapable of self government.
The irony of you comment is that Israel, which is 75% Jewish, has always been majority ruled. In contrast, Palestinian dictators (Mahmoud Abbas of Fatah which rules the West Bank, is now in the 11th year of the four year term to which he was elected in 2005; Ismael Haniyeh of Hamas, which rules Gaza, is now in the 9th year of the five year term to which he was elected in 2007.). There have been no Palestinian elections since 2007. Before criticizing the Israeli practice of democracy, Palestinians must learn to practice it at home!
5
As usual, Cohen presents a balanced and nuanced look at a very complex political situation that all too often gets turned into a bumper sticker debate.
7
Roger Cohen forgets that Israel has won the war and that the current "peace" is just preparation for the next war. The absurd demand that Israel somehow should retreat from the territories that now belong to Israel is unprecedented in world history. It is even more absurd if you consider that Israel did just that in the Gaza Strip just to be showered with missiles from the territories they just gave back! International diplomacy against Israel is just war by other means. Whatever works against Israel will be gladly embraced by its enemies.
17
Winning the war is easy!
Winning the peace is not.
And Israel is certainly not winning the peace!
Winning the peace is not.
And Israel is certainly not winning the peace!
8
Ceasing settlement activities isn't the same as removing all security forces and retreating. Israel refuses to acknowledge the difference between maintaining a security presence in the West Bank and their settlement activities. Don't buy their attempt to conflate the two.
Completely ignorant and Retreating from illegally occupied land is a basic principle of International law. (Look at all the lands turned over to national movements by France and England when they de-colonized and withdrew from their occupations.) And as for the Gaza missiles, Sharon was advised by many israelis, and others not to withdraw from Gaza unless there was a comprehensive peace deal. He did so anyway for two reasons. 1st, he grew tired of the heavy administrative/financial costs of holding Gaza; and 2, he and his intelligence officials knew that HAMAS would eventually rise and take over in Gaza (in fact, Israel helped give birth to HAMAS a a counterweight to FATAH), which was desired by Sharon because Israel could then always point to HAMAS and retain the West Bank by arguing that HAMAS would take over there also if free to do so. HAMAS in Gaza pays constant dividends to the Israeli right, their feckless supporters in the US, and the colonization/settlement project in the West Bank.
1
Excellent, Roger.
17
Among my friends, many Jewish, there is a growing sense that Israel is on the wrong path. To criticize Israel, as a non-Jew, on any level meant one was immediately branded as an anti-Semite. For a Jew to be critical brought accusations of self-loathing. But I think this line of attack doesn't work any longer as it's been played over and over and over. And it's incorrect. Israel certainly has a right to exist, of course, but many of its government's policies rightly draw condemnation when it comes to treating the Palestinians as second class citizens and allowing settlements to gobble up the territory. And it makes many people angry that Netanyahu interferes with American politics and still comes calling for his billions of dollars. Enough.
39
That's right, it does not work anymore, for good reason; these labels are used to attack every critic of israel's misdeeds, immoral behaviour and war crimes.
1
Another blatantly slanted article against Israel from NYT. Anti-Israel commentators love to make assertions such as "if it were not for occupation there would be peace between Israel and the Palestinians." But the facts of history belie these assertions. For example, when Israel unilaterally left Gaza, the Arabs living there did not seek to build a peaceful civil society but instead intensified attacks against Israel. Unless and until the Palestinians agree to live side by side with Israel in peace rather than seeking to destroy Israel in connection with its so-called "quest" for statehood, then the NYT narrative is will continue to be mere fiction.
29
I agree that withdrawal from the West Bank won't produce peace, and that fact justifies a security presence there. But how does any of that justify the settlement activities?
The West Bank is Israel's Crimea. They are doing a slow motion grab using history written in Babylon as justification. The move from rabbinic to Davidic is to be damned.
17
Huh? You mean the area most identified with Jewish history is the same as a minor peninsula on the fringe of a country that spans 7 time zones? Oh, and I can't recall anyone in Crimea trying to wipe Russia off the map nor brainwashing their people from birth that Russians are sub-human and should either be murdered or pushed into the sea, with anyone doing so achieving paradise. A few small differences here, wouldn't you say?
4
How is the West Bank, and long with the Gaza Strip, Golan Heights, and the now-returned Sinai Peninsula like Crimea? Israel only annexed those land after being attacked from them during the Six Day War, not the other way around. BTW, the winner of a war gets to keep the land they got as well. If their neighbors didn't like that, then they shouldn't have started that war in the first place. Nevertheless, Israel is willing to return some of that land should any of them want peace just they did with Egypt and gave them back the Sinai Peninsula in 1982. The reason Israel wants peace first is so that they will know that they won't be attacked from those lands again. BTW, when is the US going to give back the land they took from Mexico during the Mexican War or even give back what was taken from Spain during the Spanish-American War? Why is it only Israel that should be forced to give back land that they legally won in a war and not any other country? Speaking of Russia, I don't see why they need Crimea when their land is currently about one-sixth of the world not to mention already the largest country in the world.
2
Let's do not forget.
Israel domestic politics which is eventually affects the international politics , changed dramatically if not 180 degree after assassination of Rabin.
So let me rephrase it.
Does any body remember Gladio in Italy in 1970-80's.
Yes Rabin assassination is an exact Gladio type right wing coupe d'état in Israel, which it is established a true democracy in 1948 by the founders who strongly believe the democracy.
Rabin assassination is a turning point in Israel , which is exact same Right wing dirty tactics drive the nation radical side.
Look at Turkey, you will see same things brought exactly the same side of politics. Religious, conservative, extreme right.
Israel same.
Right wing coupe d'état.
Israel domestic politics which is eventually affects the international politics , changed dramatically if not 180 degree after assassination of Rabin.
So let me rephrase it.
Does any body remember Gladio in Italy in 1970-80's.
Yes Rabin assassination is an exact Gladio type right wing coupe d'état in Israel, which it is established a true democracy in 1948 by the founders who strongly believe the democracy.
Rabin assassination is a turning point in Israel , which is exact same Right wing dirty tactics drive the nation radical side.
Look at Turkey, you will see same things brought exactly the same side of politics. Religious, conservative, extreme right.
Israel same.
Right wing coupe d'état.
12
What are you smoking? In the years following Rabin's assassination, his protege from the left Labor party Ehud Barak became prime minister as did a centrist candidate Ehud Olmert. There was no "right-wing" coup. In fact, both Israeli leaders offered the Palestinian side sweeping proposals to end the conflict, only to see them rejected without counter-offer. If anyone is responsible for putting a right-wing government in Israel, it is the Palestinians who answered every peace effort with intifadas, murder and terror. Once the majority of Israelis saw the so-called Oslo accords were a sham that resulted in more Israeli civilians murdered after this accord was signed than in all the years previous even during all its wars, only then did they vote for the present right government. But understanding that seems like it's beyond your payscale. Better to stick with stories about Gladio or whomever -- sounds like the title to a sword and sandal movie.
9
How can Rabin's assassination in 1995 be considered a turning point.
Ehud Olmert is a liberal and was Prime Minister from 2006 to 2009.
That was over ten yeas after the assassination.
So please explain how the right wing in Israel used this to gain power when in fact they were out of power.
Ehud Olmert is a liberal and was Prime Minister from 2006 to 2009.
That was over ten yeas after the assassination.
So please explain how the right wing in Israel used this to gain power when in fact they were out of power.
8
I think most Americans, like me, have tremendous sympathy for the Israelis on their security issue. There is no one who would fault the Israelis for defending themselves. However, as the Israeli politics continue to march towards the extreme right, it may be rapidly approaching an existential crisis. Its current policies are not seeking to integrate the Israeli Arabs and Palestinian Arabs but rather to exclude them- something is so fundamentally contrary to the American idea of government- expect both nations to drift further and further away from the other.
11
Roger Cohen is essentially telling Israel it must violate the Geneva convention. An occupying power is not allowed to use its own law in the occupied territories. 85% of Palestinians in the West Bank are under complete control of the Palestinian Authority. The Geneva Convention requires Israel applies a mix of Ottoman and Jordanian law in the rest of the territories as the Geneva Convention requires them to not apply their own law.
"In accordance with the second part of Article 43, the Occupying Power must respect “les lois en vigueur” (the laws in force) in the occupied territory, except in cases of “empêchement absolu”. Respect means that — as spelled out in the Brussels Declaration — the Occupying Power has to maintain the laws in force and not modify, suspend or replace them with its own legislation."
"In accordance with the second part of Article 43, the Occupying Power must respect “les lois en vigueur” (the laws in force) in the occupied territory, except in cases of “empêchement absolu”. Respect means that — as spelled out in the Brussels Declaration — the Occupying Power has to maintain the laws in force and not modify, suspend or replace them with its own legislation."
13
Now that is an echo chamber Dave!
1
In the 14th paragraph of a 15 paragraph column, Cohen acknowledges that "Palestinian leaders also have a responsibility to curb that hate..." He then immediately dismisses the sentiment with the next sentence.
This is what passes for fair-minded analysis in the Times these days. It helps no one, least of all those who genuinely want to see a two state solution implemented.
This is what passes for fair-minded analysis in the Times these days. It helps no one, least of all those who genuinely want to see a two state solution implemented.
36
Great column and one that needs to expand. Netanyahu very public arrogance feeds the hatred of the Palestinians in the west bank when then lends itself to the terrible violence committed on the Israeli citizens. I for one am glad to see the younger Jewish community distancing itself from the ultra right wing position of all or none.
21
Your right we should stop supporting a country that lives by the same values and morals as us. Let's keep giving more and more support to Middle Eastern group who want western civilization destroyed. That'll show Bibi.
3
The inhumanity of mankind often finds its origin in the DNA of religious extremism. There are countless examples of it over many centuries and Israel's treatment of the Palestinians is just another example. Netanyahu and his allies see Israel as the 51st state of our union and expect us to be signatories to their misdeeds. It will take many years before that support begins to wane and perhaps then there will be a chance for some level of peace and justice in that troubled area of the world.
18
Israel long ago lost the moral ground. Long ago. It is frightening to consider that a small cabal (AIPAC) with interests so foreign to this nation's continues to wield such great power in this issue.
Immediate and powerful sanctions immediately should be applied to Israel by the US. Also, the US must stop vetoing UN assembly resolutions that pass with overwhelming support in condemnation of Israeli aggression.
This is the key moral issue facing the West. For almost a century, it has allowed grievous crimes to continue.
I fear Hillary Clinton, with her powerful support of Israel's most egregious actions in the past, will only worsen a tragic situation.
Immediate and powerful sanctions immediately should be applied to Israel by the US. Also, the US must stop vetoing UN assembly resolutions that pass with overwhelming support in condemnation of Israeli aggression.
This is the key moral issue facing the West. For almost a century, it has allowed grievous crimes to continue.
I fear Hillary Clinton, with her powerful support of Israel's most egregious actions in the past, will only worsen a tragic situation.
58
To JSDV, who wrote:"Israel long ago lost the moral ground. Long ago. It is frightening to consider that a small cabal (AIPAC) with interests so foreign..."
Please reflect on how often if ever you have used the term "cabal" when not referring to Jews? Perhaps you will realize something.
Please reflect on how often if ever you have used the term "cabal" when not referring to Jews? Perhaps you will realize something.
8
Name the crime please. Jordan was the "occupier" prior to losing a war with Israel they started. In fact if you look at the accomplishments in tech,agriculture,science and art etc, it should be all Israel
7
The US has no power to veto resolutions of the General Assembly. Perhaps you are thinking of something else?
3
Mr. Cohen, I vividly recall your column late last year when the last peace framework talks fell apart that you reported that it was the Palestinian Authority under President Mahmoud Abbas that walked away from the framework agreement mirroring walk aways by previous Palestinian Presidents.
The unspoken theme seems to be that murdering 3 Jewish students or a mother of 6 children in cold blood is alright and is justified by the occupation. These murders are no more justified than murders by right wing Jewish fanatics and the perpetrators on either side punished by at least life in prison or death.
I reject that. The Palestinians have apparently never negotiated in good faith. One reason being that any President of the P.A. that settles with Israel has signed his own death warrant.
I would never claim that right wing religious zealots on the Israeli side have been anxious for peace and a 2-state solution either but the fact remains it was Israel that made the concessions with the P.A. ultimately rejecting them.
An agreement based on the old Green line would restore Jerusalem to a divided city I cannot conceive of any Israeli Gov't agreeing to the splitting of Jerusalem in two.
IN the end it is the citizens of Israel and their opinion that counts not J-street.
The unspoken theme seems to be that murdering 3 Jewish students or a mother of 6 children in cold blood is alright and is justified by the occupation. These murders are no more justified than murders by right wing Jewish fanatics and the perpetrators on either side punished by at least life in prison or death.
I reject that. The Palestinians have apparently never negotiated in good faith. One reason being that any President of the P.A. that settles with Israel has signed his own death warrant.
I would never claim that right wing religious zealots on the Israeli side have been anxious for peace and a 2-state solution either but the fact remains it was Israel that made the concessions with the P.A. ultimately rejecting them.
An agreement based on the old Green line would restore Jerusalem to a divided city I cannot conceive of any Israeli Gov't agreeing to the splitting of Jerusalem in two.
IN the end it is the citizens of Israel and their opinion that counts not J-street.
40
correct me if i am wrong but didn't a couple of israeli politicians who somewhat negoitated in good faith with the palestians did in fact signed their own death warrants. maybe bibi is just afraid of what would probably happen to himself if he got too close to a peace accord with the other side.
1
J-street and many jewish americans opinions opposing the brutal, racist Israeli right and their supporters here in the US are increasingly growing in importance. Israel can keep its racist policies as long as it wants, according to the desires of its own citizens, you are right, and you correctly remind us that most Israeli citizens support the brutal racist occupation. That's very important for americans to know. What you will no longer have soon enough, and certainly over the course of the next decade, is the support of the United States, which is eroding very rapidly. Israel will once again need to find accomplices amongst rogue states, and amongst insignificant states. May I suggest North Korea and China and Russia! (Although China today called for East Jerusalem as the capital of Palestinian state --you probably dont like THAT!)
Yes, and what counts much more is their modern weapons of human destruction, deployed against a Palestinian population armed with rocks and stones. When are those who complain over and over that the Palestinians "walked away" in the past going to understand that these are not two equal forces facing one another. The Israelis have such a huge advantage, and what comes with this is a huge responsibility to meet the other party more than halfway.
1
Mr. Cohen, Israel doesn't have an "Image issue", Israel has a Reality issue, along with a 'cover-up' issue, and NYT along with other US media outlets are accomplices in the latter. When you pretend a 50 year old illegal occupation, and transfer of occupiers population into occupied lands, is merely a 'dispute', you are part of the problem.
This column in Haaretz accuses the Israeli media but in my view, they are less guilty than US media. In recent weeks, NYT editorials have discussed the fascism taking over Poland, we are still waiting for the same re Israel.
http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.699219
This column in Haaretz accuses the Israeli media but in my view, they are less guilty than US media. In recent weeks, NYT editorials have discussed the fascism taking over Poland, we are still waiting for the same re Israel.
http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.699219
125
You are perpetuating an outright myth by calling Israel's occupation "illegal".
There has never been a UN resolution that demands unilateral Israeli withdrawal from any land occupied as a result of the 1967 war.
Furthermore, a dirty little secret Palestinians and their supporters never mention is that there is not a single UN resolution that recognizes this land as belonging to "Palestinians".
The WB and Gaza are technically disputed territories. You should get your facts straight instead of repeating tired mantras.
There has never been a UN resolution that demands unilateral Israeli withdrawal from any land occupied as a result of the 1967 war.
Furthermore, a dirty little secret Palestinians and their supporters never mention is that there is not a single UN resolution that recognizes this land as belonging to "Palestinians".
The WB and Gaza are technically disputed territories. You should get your facts straight instead of repeating tired mantras.
3
NYT and Haaretz are the 2 leading leftist critics of Israel in the media. Thus is why leftists, including NYT, always quote Haaretz.
2
Yes, the occupation is corrosive and illiberal, and yes it no doubt makes life difficult and vulnerable for the Palestinians. The current Israeli government's policies regarding the territories cannot ultimately sustain a Jewish democracy.
But the Palestinian leaders have more than a responsibility to curb hate. They have a responsibility to prepare their people to accept statehood on less than their ideal terms. How many times can the Palestinians reject statehood offers - which they have done at least three times, 1948, 2000 and 2008 - and still claim the mantle of victimhood? When at long last will they tell their people that negotiations and acceptance of less than their maximal dream will lead to a better future than rejectionism and violence?
But the Palestinian leaders have more than a responsibility to curb hate. They have a responsibility to prepare their people to accept statehood on less than their ideal terms. How many times can the Palestinians reject statehood offers - which they have done at least three times, 1948, 2000 and 2008 - and still claim the mantle of victimhood? When at long last will they tell their people that negotiations and acceptance of less than their maximal dream will lead to a better future than rejectionism and violence?
107
"How many times can the Palestinians reject statehood offers - which they have done at least three times, 1948, 2000 and 2008 - and still claim the mantle of victimhood?"
As many times as they are given one-sided offers vetted only for every desire of the Israeli right wing. Swiss cheese cantons are never going to be accepted. If that is the best offer, then it will be one-state instead.
As many times as they are given one-sided offers vetted only for every desire of the Israeli right wing. Swiss cheese cantons are never going to be accepted. If that is the best offer, then it will be one-state instead.
11
Let me put it this way. Say someone came to your home and said "How about we share the house? My ancestors lived here hundreds of years ago, so I feel I have a right to live here. We suffered great abuses in our last home so we would really like a place of our own. All our buddies took a vote on it and said it was cool". Naturally the response was "No you may not live here. This is my house. I don't care whether your family used to live here, it's mine now. And I don't care if your buddies think it is cool. I was never consulted about it". As you may or may not know the Palestinians were not consulted on the UN's decision to let Palestine be turned split into a Jewish state and a Palestinian state. Now back to the analogy. Then they come back and chase you out into a small portion of your home. They later take over the part that you live in too. Now tell me, if they came to you and said "Let's make a deal. You get this half and we get that half. What do you say" what would the answer be? I would think the answer would be no. The dispute is not two people coming to one place in 1948 and fighting for the next 68 years over who gets what. It is one people chasing most of the residents to a small portion of their land and then later taking over even that part of the land as well and putting it under occupation. So do not be surprised when those people do not want to abide any deal that allows those who drove them from their homes to keep that which they took.
5
Your second paragraph makes excuses. Stay on topic. Your essay gets a grade of C-.
2
Cohen articulates the problems quite well, but fails when he calls this an "image issue." This is a failure of substance and policy----not image. To claim otherwise is kick the can down the road, making the inevitable conflict only more severe and ugly for both the US and Israel. As a lifetime supporter of Israel, I can say with confidence that if the policies of both Israel and the US do not adjust to reflect the interests of the majority of working Americans rather than the dictates of AIPAC, Israel will very soon find itself without any true friends left in the world.
205
James - every poll taken in the last decade shows overwhelming support for Israel. People mention AIPAC like there is no such thing as other lobby's. Double Standards as usual - Jews can't lobby for their causes - and if they do a good job - it has to be for malicious reasons.
7
The Obama administration has proven itself a less than reliable ally for Israel. In a recent Times Op-Ed, Shmuel Rosner argued for the Israeli government to seek additional new allies in Asia, particularly in India and China. That sounds like very sound advice. Perhaps, by this time next year, Israel may find a more reliable ally in the United States!
Roger Cohen, in his anti-Israel diatribes, fails to recognize that Israel, as all other U.N. nation-state members, has an "inherent right to individual, or collective self-defense," as recognized under Article 51 of the United Nations Charter. Foreign occupations, such as the Post World War II occupations of Germany and Japan, end with peace treaties. As acceptance of the Barack offer of 2000, the Olmert offer of 2008, or alternatively the Arab League Peace Plan, which Israel has accepted as a basis for negotiations, would constitute de-facto recognition of Israel's right to exist within "secure and recognized boundaries" per UNSCR 242 and 338, Palestinians prefer the occupation continue. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uti_possidetis
When Palestinians want the occupation to end and obtain independent statehood, they will negotiate for them!
Roger Cohen, in his anti-Israel diatribes, fails to recognize that Israel, as all other U.N. nation-state members, has an "inherent right to individual, or collective self-defense," as recognized under Article 51 of the United Nations Charter. Foreign occupations, such as the Post World War II occupations of Germany and Japan, end with peace treaties. As acceptance of the Barack offer of 2000, the Olmert offer of 2008, or alternatively the Arab League Peace Plan, which Israel has accepted as a basis for negotiations, would constitute de-facto recognition of Israel's right to exist within "secure and recognized boundaries" per UNSCR 242 and 338, Palestinians prefer the occupation continue. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uti_possidetis
When Palestinians want the occupation to end and obtain independent statehood, they will negotiate for them!
5
Let's look behind the issue and see how we benefit from having Israel as a reliable ally.
Israel is the United States front line troops in the Middle East. Israel unlike other allies has sacrificed its own soldiers and has never asked for the U.S. to put American boots on the ground in their war against evil.
1. According to the late Senator Inoye (D-Hawaii), Israel is the CIA's eyes and ears on the ground in Arab countries (where the CIA does not tread);
2. Designed the first MRAPS anti-IED vehicles used widely by US troops in Iraq and Afghanistan;
3. Designed a battlefield bandage that has saved hundreds of US troops lives, and that of Congresswoman Cathy Giffords (shot in Colorado during campaigning two years ago).
4. Invented an anti-aircraft missile system that protects Israeli planes from hand-held missiles and also protects UPS and FedEx cargo planes. If the Malaysian plane (MH-17) was equipped it would likely not have been shot down over Ukraine…
5. Etc.
6. Etc.
7. Etc.
3
Whenever this subject comes up , I tend to repeat what seems to me the only obvious solution:
One-state solution, two-state solution... Why not both? A federal state of Israel-Palestine, with Jerusalem as its capital and where Israel is responsible for defense - a great deal for Palestinians, since they would not have a chance on their own in the wild neighborhood they happen to live in. The two people finally wed in peace, with tremendous benefits (economic, social, spiritual, etc.) for both. Palestinian refugees compensated and/or allowed to resettle in Palestine.
Why is this simple solution never mentioned by anybody anywhere? Could it be because the conflict itself benefits some local and international actors while condemning the Israeli and Palestinian people to unending torture?
One-state solution, two-state solution... Why not both? A federal state of Israel-Palestine, with Jerusalem as its capital and where Israel is responsible for defense - a great deal for Palestinians, since they would not have a chance on their own in the wild neighborhood they happen to live in. The two people finally wed in peace, with tremendous benefits (economic, social, spiritual, etc.) for both. Palestinian refugees compensated and/or allowed to resettle in Palestine.
Why is this simple solution never mentioned by anybody anywhere? Could it be because the conflict itself benefits some local and international actors while condemning the Israeli and Palestinian people to unending torture?
28
There is a simple answer. SA's solution would ultimately lead to a majority Palestinian population in the 'federal state' described, and therefore the end to the Jewish state. This is simply unacceptable to supporters of Israel.
3
"Why is this simple solution never mentioned by anybody anywhere? "
Because it would mean rejecting and dethroning the zealots on both sides.
Because it would mean rejecting and dethroning the zealots on both sides.
I think the problem is that, after giving full citizenship and voting rights to all Arab residents of Palestine, there would no longer be a clear Jewish majority there. That seems to be why Israel hasn't annexed the West Bank.
1
Yes. Finally. Mr. Cohen has discovered it.
The real cause of global and historical anti-semitism over the millennia has somehow been right under our noses. If only 'the Jews' would just understand why they are angering the gentiles, everything would be alright.
We have heard this trope before. The 'Jews are doing this, they are doing that and if only they would understand that it doesn't look good, the endless war against the Jews would abate.
It is nonsense.
The Palestinian hard liners are just the latest in a long line of tormentors, haters and assassins to beset and confront Jews wherever they have lived. It doesn't end and 'Jews' know it.
The Palestinian leadership was offered a two state solution and reneged. If Palestinians can get their own political house in order and circle back, they would still find Israel willing to find a two state solution.
In the meantime, the world can boycott and oppress the Jewish people over matters that other countries get a complete pass on. Israel and the 'Jews' will
understand-- we have seen it many times before.
The real cause of global and historical anti-semitism over the millennia has somehow been right under our noses. If only 'the Jews' would just understand why they are angering the gentiles, everything would be alright.
We have heard this trope before. The 'Jews are doing this, they are doing that and if only they would understand that it doesn't look good, the endless war against the Jews would abate.
It is nonsense.
The Palestinian hard liners are just the latest in a long line of tormentors, haters and assassins to beset and confront Jews wherever they have lived. It doesn't end and 'Jews' know it.
The Palestinian leadership was offered a two state solution and reneged. If Palestinians can get their own political house in order and circle back, they would still find Israel willing to find a two state solution.
In the meantime, the world can boycott and oppress the Jewish people over matters that other countries get a complete pass on. Israel and the 'Jews' will
understand-- we have seen it many times before.
45
The Palestinians are also a Semitic people.
9
I couldn't have said it better than you did.
So what, they still rejected peace with the Jews and are the ones perpetuating the conflict.
3
First off, I have to congratulate the Times for being courageous enough to permit comments on an opinion piece regarding Israel and Palestine.
Secondly, it's important to understand that the current Israeli leadership did not just suddenly materialize via osmosis. They were elected by Israeli voters. So I think, despite the fact that the country is run by right-wing exremists (I don't agree that Netanyahu is a moderate), it is voters who persist in putting returning them to office, election after election.
So I think it's important to take a snapshot of the Israeli voting public and ask: Why is this happening with such predictable regularity? It wasn't always so.
Secondly, it's important to understand that the current Israeli leadership did not just suddenly materialize via osmosis. They were elected by Israeli voters. So I think, despite the fact that the country is run by right-wing exremists (I don't agree that Netanyahu is a moderate), it is voters who persist in putting returning them to office, election after election.
So I think it's important to take a snapshot of the Israeli voting public and ask: Why is this happening with such predictable regularity? It wasn't always so.
144
Actually, you're describing things incorrectly. Yes, voters sent Bibi to office. But he didn't win anything close to a majority of the popular vote.
1
Mr. Wells is almost right about who elected Netanyahu, except that in the last election the moderate factions had more votes than the right-wingers. As often happens, though, the right wing caved in to ultra-religious parties, and the left was unwilling to bring in the sizable Israeli-Arab coalition. It is not correct to say that a majority of Israelis back the current government's positions.
2
Because the founders of the state were predominantly liberal Eastern Europeans and with the electorate has been shifted by the huge influx of Russian Jewish emigres who are much more conservative.
It isn't only image - it is what Israeli politics and society are - and the current administration represents the settler mentality. Netanyahu and his circle expect to be able to manipulate the US to their advantage - if the US Jews won't do their bidding, they'll cozy up to Christian fundamentalists - fundies of a feather. I was surprised to learn that a book by an Israeli author was recently banned in Israeli high schools because it depicts a relationship between a Jew and a (Muslim) Palestinian. The irony seems not to be clear to the Israelis who'd called our ambassador a 'Jew boy'.
10
Ex-Secretary Clinton said she would invite PM Netanyahu to the White House in her first month in office. She also has lately aspired to assume President Obama's mantle as she campaigns. Following Mr. Netanyahu's Boehner orchestrated performance before our Congress, would she truly reward his insults? Pandering for votes and money? My hope is that President Sanders would ask Secretary of State Kerry to continue to serve this country as he so ablely has under President Obama. The continued absorption of land under the Occupation, as you point out, is untenable in the long term and must be halted.
19
Oh ya, Israel . . . haven't heard much about there lately. Has Bibi wised up and learned that it's his an Israel's best interest for him to keep his mouth shut, or is Trump's that much bigger that Bibi just gave up even trying to get a word in edgewise. If such is the case, Trump's got my vote, because frankly I'm sick of hearing about Israel all the time and how they can always get away with murder, simply because they're so "special" and because Bibi is such a big insufferable crybaby.
6
Trump is sitting out the next debate because he is afraid of being called out for his boorish comments about women, as he was by Fox's Meagan Kelly. That makes Trump a coward and a crybaby, as well as a bigot and a misogynist. If you lie down with dogs, Iver, you get up with fleas!
1
Israel does not have an image issue. Israel has a substance issue.
And Israel is having an ever growing problem disguising the substance with Israel's preferred image. At least outside of Israel. Israelis seem to think the image is the substance.
And Israel is having an ever growing problem disguising the substance with Israel's preferred image. At least outside of Israel. Israelis seem to think the image is the substance.
18
American Churches are also waking up to the illegal occupation in the West Bank, passing divestment initiatives, like they did in South Africa decades ago. The parallels between Israel and apartheid South Africa are obvious, as President Carter wrote.
Inequality in the West Bank isn't the only issue, either. Pervasive inequality exists among Israeli citizens, Arab and Jewish, within the 1967 borders too. This inequality among so-called legal citizens has been long ignored by the American media.
Cohen has made strides, however. His support of labeling products made in the West Bank is fairly close to calling for boycott. I'm not sure if Cohen, originally South African, supported the boycott, divestment and sanction movement against his country of origin and the policy of Apartheid, but, with Cohen's insights into South Africa's history, he is perfectly situated to discuss the parallels, as did Nelson Mandela.
Inequality in the West Bank isn't the only issue, either. Pervasive inequality exists among Israeli citizens, Arab and Jewish, within the 1967 borders too. This inequality among so-called legal citizens has been long ignored by the American media.
Cohen has made strides, however. His support of labeling products made in the West Bank is fairly close to calling for boycott. I'm not sure if Cohen, originally South African, supported the boycott, divestment and sanction movement against his country of origin and the policy of Apartheid, but, with Cohen's insights into South Africa's history, he is perfectly situated to discuss the parallels, as did Nelson Mandela.
18
Israelis have made a collective decision to annex the occupied territories and disenfranchise its Palestinian population. The blueprint they are following mimics what we did to Native Americans soon after we occupied their lands. Any reference to Israel's behavior in the territories without pointing to its purpose is pointless.
34
Mimics what we did to Native Americans? You mean like slaughtering Native Americans? Driving them across the country?
It must always be remembered that the Palestinians have been offered land and peace going back to November, 1947, long before they were called "Palestinians".
Mr. Netanyahu is on record supporting two states, but Mr. Abbas walked out on him as he walked out on Mr. Olmert.
Had things gone well back under Mr. Arafat, the Palestinians would now be enjoying the fruits their own sovereign state, offered to them now, let us recall, no fewer than four times, rejected the same number of times. Instead they elected to remain dependent upon Israel and upon the largesse of the international community, now rolling in at the rate of around $1 billion per year, though Lord knows what happens to it.
Yes, this status quo is remarkable reminiscent of America's relationship with the Native Americans. I see it clearly now.
It must always be remembered that the Palestinians have been offered land and peace going back to November, 1947, long before they were called "Palestinians".
Mr. Netanyahu is on record supporting two states, but Mr. Abbas walked out on him as he walked out on Mr. Olmert.
Had things gone well back under Mr. Arafat, the Palestinians would now be enjoying the fruits their own sovereign state, offered to them now, let us recall, no fewer than four times, rejected the same number of times. Instead they elected to remain dependent upon Israel and upon the largesse of the international community, now rolling in at the rate of around $1 billion per year, though Lord knows what happens to it.
Yes, this status quo is remarkable reminiscent of America's relationship with the Native Americans. I see it clearly now.
8
Excellent analogy
Where not talking about then. We're talking about current Israeli policies. Stop settlement building and engage in negotiations. Then let see what happens. But Israel under netanyahu wont do that because this government and most Israelis are seeking eventually to annex the west bank and expel the palestinians. too bad for you that the rest of the the world sees right through your lies. (Saying Netanyahu supports a two state solution is like saying the Pope supports abortion, when everything Netanyahu has said privately and occasionally publicly shows his intentions are the opposite. Unless one is easily besotted with his lies!)
I am in my 60s, Jewish, and a long time supporter of Israel. It broke my heart to see the Israeli government insinuate itself into US politics. Until that stops, I will find other worthwhile but non-partisan ways to support my people.
19
Reality check, Vic. John Boehner invited Netanyahu to speak to Congress. Not the other way around. And how many times has the US insinuated itself into other countries' politics throughout the world, not to mention helping overthrow governments? They just released emails on Hillary Clinton's server in which US ambassador Thomas Pickering was calling for the US to secretly orchestrate street demonstrations in Israel against its present government. That's not insinuating? Fomenting unrest is a lot worse than making a speech after being invited to in Congress. Wouldn't you say? Will you be finding other ways to support the US other than spitting on it on a moment's pretext? A pretext something tells me you've been looking for all along?
5
Israel has the same "image" issue as did apartheid South Africa.
55
My thoughts as well. How the west was won also came to mind.
The suggestion that Israel has an 'image' problem suggests the issue is how Israeli policies are communicated and understood rather than the policies themselves. How one could possibly spin Israeli policy as humanist or democratic? No, the problem is much more substansive than image.
Perhaps framing the discussion around 'image' was the most palatable formulation? And why would that be? Ah, if this piece were instead titled "Israel's Policy Issue" then there'd be no room for hedging about whether one was actually criticising Israeli policy or not.
“You cannot support Israel without grappling with the occupation. Keeping quiet will not help.” Insisting the issues are merely ones of image is part of the problem, isn't it? It's a manner of 'keeping quiet."
This piece does address policy, but the title provides plausable deniability and is thus cowardly.
Perhaps framing the discussion around 'image' was the most palatable formulation? And why would that be? Ah, if this piece were instead titled "Israel's Policy Issue" then there'd be no room for hedging about whether one was actually criticising Israeli policy or not.
“You cannot support Israel without grappling with the occupation. Keeping quiet will not help.” Insisting the issues are merely ones of image is part of the problem, isn't it? It's a manner of 'keeping quiet."
This piece does address policy, but the title provides plausable deniability and is thus cowardly.
12
I've been giving a lot of study time to why Japan drifted from democracy to militant fascism in the twenties and thirties. I won't bore you with the details but you rapidly find that it was a grass roots up process that eventually consumed a government that was unable/unwilling to do anything about it. Eventually it lead to Japans destruction.
It occurred to me while reading Mr. Cohen's excellent piece that we are seeing something similar here. Settlers and ultra nationalists driving the Israeli government not the other way round. All in a lust for land and dominion fueled by religious zealotry. In short: Greater Israel.
It may lead to their demise.
But one thing is very clear to me. I do not approve and they will not do so on my nickle. We Americans should cut off the Israelis allowance as it were. Stop the technology transfers and sell them no more weapons. Freeze their assets and block the transfer of private funds as well.
It does not matter to me that the PA is corrupt. We Americans do not approve and should not support Jackboot conquerors & their brutal occupation. Do it now Israel before you lose what little soul you have left and your only friend in the world.
It occurred to me while reading Mr. Cohen's excellent piece that we are seeing something similar here. Settlers and ultra nationalists driving the Israeli government not the other way round. All in a lust for land and dominion fueled by religious zealotry. In short: Greater Israel.
It may lead to their demise.
But one thing is very clear to me. I do not approve and they will not do so on my nickle. We Americans should cut off the Israelis allowance as it were. Stop the technology transfers and sell them no more weapons. Freeze their assets and block the transfer of private funds as well.
It does not matter to me that the PA is corrupt. We Americans do not approve and should not support Jackboot conquerors & their brutal occupation. Do it now Israel before you lose what little soul you have left and your only friend in the world.
82
A "lust for land?" Have you ever looked at a map? Israel is geographically about 1% of the Middle East. The rest is owned by Arabs. Are you saying that having 1% of the land constitutes "lust?" You live in Seattle, right? Are you going to go back to wherever your ancestors came from and give your property back to the American Indians? If not, I guess we can blame your "lust" for land, too.
10
Very well said!
3
Actually, Japan had wartime elections, which even Britain didn't do.
Cohen writes a good thoughtful article acknowledging what political scientist have seen for decades: If the occupation becomes a permanent appropriation, Palestinian non-Jews will outnumber Jews in the country. It will become necessary to either exclude non-Jews from governance (as is presently done) making it non-democratic or the nation will cease being Jewish in nature. The longer Palestinians are ethnically cleansed from their lands and forced into Palestinian ghettos, the more Israel looks like a combination of South Africa under apartheid or the old Yugoslavia.
This is not a public relations issue, it is ultimately a moral one. Palestinians certainly need to acknowledge Israel's right to exist, but many if not most have a valid grievance against Israel's abuses in taking land and indiscriminately abusing its population (land grabs, Gaza Strip military attack, turning off electricity, refusing to turn over tax receipts, etc.). Israelis choose to focus on the backlash without considering what they have done by supporting these pogroms and abuse.
This is not a public relations issue, it is ultimately a moral one. Palestinians certainly need to acknowledge Israel's right to exist, but many if not most have a valid grievance against Israel's abuses in taking land and indiscriminately abusing its population (land grabs, Gaza Strip military attack, turning off electricity, refusing to turn over tax receipts, etc.). Israelis choose to focus on the backlash without considering what they have done by supporting these pogroms and abuse.
141
Ethnic cleansing. Ghettos. Pogroms. My, my... Such inflammatory language in what occasionally purports to be an even-handed analysis. Just like the Israelis and the Palestinians, you want it both ways.
Pragmatist, if, as you state, you live in Austin, TX, you're living on land stolen from Mexico. I would ask you to make the case for keeping it in perpetuity. Would it go something like, Yes, it was a phony war, but morals or no morals, we won, so forget it, it's over? That would certainly jibe with your handle of pragmatist. At which point I would ask you to apply an equal degree of pragmatism to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
Israel's time frame for achieving its goal of owning all the land between the sea and the Jordan River is Biblical. Your colleagues, the American Christian Right, support Israel's expansion one hundred percent. Game over.
As it was for the Puritans, Huguenots, Italians, Germans, Irish, Jews, Poles, Hungarians, Syrians, etcetera, a large number of Palestinians will have to emigrate. That's how things have gone for our species since we became bipedal; that's how they will continue to go.
I'm merely being pragmatic.
Pragmatist, if, as you state, you live in Austin, TX, you're living on land stolen from Mexico. I would ask you to make the case for keeping it in perpetuity. Would it go something like, Yes, it was a phony war, but morals or no morals, we won, so forget it, it's over? That would certainly jibe with your handle of pragmatist. At which point I would ask you to apply an equal degree of pragmatism to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
Israel's time frame for achieving its goal of owning all the land between the sea and the Jordan River is Biblical. Your colleagues, the American Christian Right, support Israel's expansion one hundred percent. Game over.
As it was for the Puritans, Huguenots, Italians, Germans, Irish, Jews, Poles, Hungarians, Syrians, etcetera, a large number of Palestinians will have to emigrate. That's how things have gone for our species since we became bipedal; that's how they will continue to go.
I'm merely being pragmatic.
2
"Palestinians certainly need to acknowledge Israel's right to exist...."
Which arab muslim leader has done that, ever?
Why are there 22 arab musllim nations in the mideast plus iran, yet not one single non-muslim country?
Why are non-muslims not allowed sovereignty in the mideast?
Which arab muslim leader has done that, ever?
Why are there 22 arab musllim nations in the mideast plus iran, yet not one single non-muslim country?
Why are non-muslims not allowed sovereignty in the mideast?
10
The Palestinians have been offered treaties that would have given them 90 percent of what they wanted but did not include their demand for "THE RIGHT OF RETURN "
There is no way Israel will ever accept that demand because Israel will cease to exist which you claim to support.
You speak from both sides of your mouth and what you say is a lie.
There is no way Israel will ever accept that demand because Israel will cease to exist which you claim to support.
You speak from both sides of your mouth and what you say is a lie.
5
Israel's problem isn't "image", it's reality. It wants to portray itself as a modern secular democracy, yet it also wraps itself in "Jewish State" swaddling clothes to protect itself from criticism, labeling anyone who questions its government as "anti-Semitic".
Yet just as in the most reactionary Islamic states, a shadow government of hardline theologians is always whispering in the ear of the politicians.
It wants to portray a nuke-less Iran as the most threating presence in the Middle East, yet won't acknowledge its own possession of hundreds of nuclear weapons. It won't sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, but wants us to believe that NNPT signatory Iran is the neighborhood bully.
If Israel will address its reality, its "image" will take care of itself.
Yet just as in the most reactionary Islamic states, a shadow government of hardline theologians is always whispering in the ear of the politicians.
It wants to portray a nuke-less Iran as the most threating presence in the Middle East, yet won't acknowledge its own possession of hundreds of nuclear weapons. It won't sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, but wants us to believe that NNPT signatory Iran is the neighborhood bully.
If Israel will address its reality, its "image" will take care of itself.
251
Charles of USA writes:
". . . It wants to portray a nuke-less Iran as the most threating presence in the Middle East, yet won't acknowledge its own possession of hundreds of nuclear weapons. . . ."
I don't recall Israel threatening to wipe any country off the face of the earth, but I do recall Iran threatening to wipe Israel off the face of the earth.
Also, from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_and_state-sponsored_terrorism: "The United States State Department states Iran provides support for Hamas, Hezbollah and Palestinian Islamic Jihad in Israel."
I don't recall Israel doing the same against Iran.
Would you really like it if Iran had nuclear weapons?
". . . It wants to portray a nuke-less Iran as the most threating presence in the Middle East, yet won't acknowledge its own possession of hundreds of nuclear weapons. . . ."
I don't recall Israel threatening to wipe any country off the face of the earth, but I do recall Iran threatening to wipe Israel off the face of the earth.
Also, from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_and_state-sponsored_terrorism: "The United States State Department states Iran provides support for Hamas, Hezbollah and Palestinian Islamic Jihad in Israel."
I don't recall Israel doing the same against Iran.
Would you really like it if Iran had nuclear weapons?
4
Thus the toxicity of all theocratic states. In his wisdom , Thomas Jefferson authored The Statute Of Religious Freedom which separated Church and State in Virginia.
Well said Sir!
Does RC honestly think the conflict between Israel and the Palistinians will disappear with a two state solution. Currently a two state solution will only lead to more violence for Israel. The Pals want all of Israel. Getting their own state and not recognizing Israel as the homeland of the Jewish people is only a first step for them and not an end to the conflict. It is more then likely that Hamas, Hezballah or Isis will take over the State of Palestine with Irans help. RC and others are delusional if this conflict can be solved with the present corrupt and undemocratic Pal leadership. They use their people as pawns and place them in a permanent victim hood state to enrich themselves and not make a real peace with Israel. By only focusing on the settlements your not making any demands on the Pals and only inciting them to continue their intransigence. Roger when you move from your monocular view to a more bifocular view your read of the conflict will portray a more accurate point of view.
15
Being, "pro-Israel is seen as a right wing thing", says so much about the situation in the US. Take a look at where it's at in Europe. They are just tired of whine, the Israeli injustice, and their set of excuses for the reason they act belligerent. What happens when the US finally reaches that point in their relationship with Israel How does Israel think this will end well.
10
You do know that there are a number of left wing supporters for Israel as well, but you probably won't admit to that because it will debunk your claim to this.
2
I agree with Roger Cohen. Enough Israeli terror and fascism is enough! A soldier's killing a 13-yr-old girl armed with a knife? Why not shoot her in the foot? The new Israel is not the old Israel.
10
We'll see how you react one day Max if someone comes to kill you with a knife -- not counting screaming and begging, of course.
11
Max, are we to assume, then, that Palestinian terror against unarmed Jews doesn't bother you? "Israeli terror?" I think you'll find very few examples of that compared with the multitude of terror attacks committed by Palestinians against Israelis, but then, I guess you're in favor of that.
5
If that girl had a knife with her that can actually kill someone, then I wouldn't believe that she was innocent to begin with.
3
The victory for Israel vis-a-vis the 6-Day War, changed and corrupted the soul of Israel. Victory, swift and breath-taking, left Israelis with a sense of wonder, and disbelief. Besieged on all sides, the Gulf of Aquba closed to Israel, it was a frightening time. Israel made a preemptive attack and in 6 days achieved a staggering victory. The result: territories won, aggression defeated, and the country intact and strong. It was a heady time and out of this time was born an arrogance that has never been abated. It's now hard to sympathize with Israel. Its policies are proving anathema to justice. The doves in Israel are shouted down, disparaged. Israel needs the religious party to form coalitions, and therein lies a big part of the problem. Religion seems to be the engine that powers a disdain of moderation or conciliation. Is this not the spirit of any country, beholden to the religious? On the other hand, the US, afraid to speak out against Israel, further encourages this behavior with financial payoffs. And Jews in this country feel a powerful allegiance to Israel, because should any problems appear in this country, there is this zone of safety for the Jews. Jews that would normally speak out against injustice appear silenced. Maybe a collective memory of Crusades, Progroms, Inquisitions, and Hitler, have made Jews aware/afraid of the shaky ground upon which they stand. Maybe we have all contributed to this problem.
6
Well said Gloria
1
Does the author even know how the religious parties in the coalition (as in every coalition) actually vote? Or is the author making assumptions based on no facts at all and assumed that it's these parties that drive all of Israel's policies? Does the author have examples of the "doves" being shouted down? Does the author even realize that the Left, in decline, is in decline for a reason?
4
Think holding the West Bank is corrupting. Imagine how corrupting an entire Palestinian state quickly turned into another Islamic terror base (as Gaza already is) once again trying to destroy Israel would be?
3
At last, people are beginning to see the injustice of the occupation. To the last paragraph I would add "make continued American aid contingent on a complete settlement freeze". This is necessary because as long as Israel can continue confiscating land with no consequences, it has no incentive to negotiate, and the same pattern of stall-and-build, stall-and-build that's been going on for decades will just continue.
12
Sober assessment of israeli-palestinian relations (or lack thereof), where the apparent victor (Israel) is adamant in exercising their might in corralling its victims. The problem, first of all, is that it is not right nor moral, no matter which way you spin it. It is, to many eyes, an institutionalized violence, to which the palestinians have no choice but to fight back. Israel will not be accepted as a friendly member of the world community unless and until it gives up occupied palestinian land. An oppressive regime is an awful example of neighborliness, and shooting its own foot in the process. Netanyahu's 'hand' in all this shall be remembered for a long time, and in no nice way, for its brutal disregard for justice.
18
Just how, exactly, are Palestinians being corralled?
6
The European Union has decided to label all Israeli made products being made in settlements within the West Bank and exported to their shores not as being 'Made IN Israel', but as being made in the West Bank.
The Israeli Ambassador to the US, Ron Dermer, one born in the US to boot, had the utter chutzpah to send out Christmas gifts to the White House and others labeled as "Made in Samaria and Judea", a clear sign that Israel under Bibi and his arch-right government will never give up to fight for a "Greater Israel" encompassing the whole of the West Bank.
As a Jewish American I am quite troubled about what Israel, a country I loved and have visited several times, has turned into, and do my best to support liberal causes in that country, including having joined J Street in DC.
The Israeli Ambassador to the US, Ron Dermer, one born in the US to boot, had the utter chutzpah to send out Christmas gifts to the White House and others labeled as "Made in Samaria and Judea", a clear sign that Israel under Bibi and his arch-right government will never give up to fight for a "Greater Israel" encompassing the whole of the West Bank.
As a Jewish American I am quite troubled about what Israel, a country I loved and have visited several times, has turned into, and do my best to support liberal causes in that country, including having joined J Street in DC.
16
As a Jewish American, ask yourself what products from other disputed territories such as Northern Cyprus illegally seized by Turkey, Western Sahara illegally seized by Morocco, the Falkland Islands, and especially anything from Tibet is being labeled by the European Union? No other? Okay, then as a self-professed Jewish American it will be worthwhile asking what is one of the definitions of applying one set of standards to Jews, and one to anyone else. No?
5
Any group that refuses to accept self examination, self criticism , honest and unbiased appraisal risks cronyism, failure, indeed totalitarianism. The Jew State has come a long way from the early days of Independence. It is plain what the end game of occupation , subjugation and eventually annihilation has come to. The USA should change dramatically its 'SPECIAL RELATIONSHIP" with this APARTHEID state. If we were not so cooped by the AIPAC group and there satraps it would have been done long ago.SHAME ON US.
16
Sorry dja, I liked the first line but you showed your true (ie anti-Semitic not anti-Zionist ) colours with the "Jew state" comment.
Shame on you.
Shame on you.
10
I'd start with self-examination, self-criticism, and honest unbiased appraisal of someone like yourself the used the phrase "Jew state" for starters. Bashing Israel is so convenient for covering up an underlying psychodrama, isn't it? Oh, and while you're self-reflecting (I have confidence in you, dja), you could go through the trouble of actually researching Israel and seeing how diverse, democratic and multi-cultural, multi-ethnic, and multi-racial it actually is. In fact it's Arab citizen have more rights than any Arab in ANY Arab country. But I forgot: this is the "Jew-state" and so facts don't apply here. And accusing the Jews of using Christian blood to bake matzoh doesn't play these days; so make up stories that Israel is an apartheid state or traffics in Palestinian organs, instead.
9
While I deplore Israel's settler-drive policy, I also deplore your use of the term 'Jew state'. That has a vulgar and nasty edge to it. Refer to it as Israel or the Jewish state.
If you read Benny Morris's book 'Righteous Victims', you'll see that expansion into Judea and Samaria, and displacing the Arab population, was in play from the very beginning. Herzl subscribed to it, as did Ben Gurion, while disguising their expansionist goals. The settler revanchism is merely the continuation of that policy. It's this historical truth that the Israels seem unable to come to grips with.
They have their own grievances: refusal by Arab countries to recognize the legitimacy of the state, repeated failures by Arafat and others to seize the opportunity for peace, low-level violence against civilians. However, if you develop policy based on prior history, you'll never craft a meaningful path forward. You don't make peace with your friends, only with your enemies. And they are reaching a demographic tipping point with the explosion in the Arab birth rate.
If you read Benny Morris's book 'Righteous Victims', you'll see that expansion into Judea and Samaria, and displacing the Arab population, was in play from the very beginning. Herzl subscribed to it, as did Ben Gurion, while disguising their expansionist goals. The settler revanchism is merely the continuation of that policy. It's this historical truth that the Israels seem unable to come to grips with.
They have their own grievances: refusal by Arab countries to recognize the legitimacy of the state, repeated failures by Arafat and others to seize the opportunity for peace, low-level violence against civilians. However, if you develop policy based on prior history, you'll never craft a meaningful path forward. You don't make peace with your friends, only with your enemies. And they are reaching a demographic tipping point with the explosion in the Arab birth rate.
Despite all of the dialogue here, one fact remains consistent - the never ending building of illegal settlements in what is defined by international law as Palestinian territory. Demolishing homes, confiscating property, restricting commerce and travel - how can this be interpreted as anything but aggression by Israel. It has not, is not, and never will work. There needs to be an adult in the area, and that should be Israel. Settlement expansion must stop now, and a reasonable peace solution should be defined by Israel including immediate cessation of settlement expansion. With leaders like Netanyahu and powerful Jewish interests here in the states, this will never happen. This stirring up hatred in the Muslim world regarding this matter is not in the best interest of the United States. The US stands by itself in vetoing many resolutions in the UN regarding world opinion about Israel and this situation. The Jews of the world need to wake up and take a lead in ending this for their long term respect and interests!!!
23
We take the illegality of the settlements for granted. It's become a dogma among those who do not look into law and history. But in point of fact the illegality of the settlements is hardly a certainty. What, exactly, makes these settlements illegal, beyond our desire to say so and thereby brand an activity of which we don't approve?
2
No new settlements have been built.
New apartment have been constructed but that construction is on the land of existing settlements and within those borders.
Therefore no Palestinian land is being confiscated or torn down to build new settlements.
New apartment have been constructed but that construction is on the land of existing settlements and within those borders.
Therefore no Palestinian land is being confiscated or torn down to build new settlements.
4
Gary, are you implying that Israel did all these "aggressive" things for no reason? Study the history. Innocent Jewish civilians have been attacked again and again by Palestinians. Are they supposed to not respond?
2
A particular difficulty in discussing the question of Israeli policy on the occupation is the knee-jerk response in some quarters toward any questioning of Israel. The "little Jew boy" epithet is particularly disgusting, but the facile branding of questioners as anti-semetic or terrorist-enabling are quite routine.
If the Israeli right wing truly cares nothing about internal or external understanding, this might all be very well, but it hardly seems to serve the long-term interests of a peaceful, prosperous Israel.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
If the Israeli right wing truly cares nothing about internal or external understanding, this might all be very well, but it hardly seems to serve the long-term interests of a peaceful, prosperous Israel.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
19
Without approving of the "little Jew boy" comment, it's worth recalling that name calling cuts both ways. Not long ago an official of the French government referred publicly to Israel utilizing the pejorative word for mammalian waste. A similar epithet was hurled at Mr. Netanyahu not long ago in a most peculiar circumstance. Geese and ganders must all reap what they sow.
Certain folks ARE anti-Semitic and ARE terrorist enablers, and well deserve those labels.
Certain folks ARE anti-Semitic and ARE terrorist enablers, and well deserve those labels.
5
Well Phil, the fact that other people hurl idiotic insults hardly justifies the gross epithet of Netanyahu's aide. And indeed certain people exist who ARE anti-Semitic. Daniel Shapiro isn't one of them. Nor is the American government he represents.
1
It's not an image issue.
11
I'm surprised that these issues are still being framed as 'support for Israel.' Generalizing the issue as such avoids the real question. That is, what to do about the Israeli settlement policy?
One who supports America doesn't necessarily support the militia takeover in Oregon and one who 'supports Israel' doesn't necessarily agree with its settlement policy. Yet the two are constantly conflated as if as President Bush once remarked, "you are either with us or against us." And lurking not far behind that characterization are all the historical demons of antisemitism.
While this is a very skillful manipulation of the issue, the result is no real dialogue and no real movement. Everything is hidden behind 'do you support or not support?'
Israel has decided to play a power politics game with the US. They can get all the diplomatic cover they need, all the military support they require and literally half of the entire US foreign aid budget while brazenly engaging in systematic, state sponsored ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians. For those not completely driven out, the blockaded Gaza territory with all its human misery is their alternative.
This isn't an issue stirred up on campuses or only pushed by BDS. This is an issue that stares everyone in the face, both in Israel and the US. This is an issue that questions everyone's commitment to human rights and instead of real, sensible public dialogue we are left with silly notions of who supports Israel.
One who supports America doesn't necessarily support the militia takeover in Oregon and one who 'supports Israel' doesn't necessarily agree with its settlement policy. Yet the two are constantly conflated as if as President Bush once remarked, "you are either with us or against us." And lurking not far behind that characterization are all the historical demons of antisemitism.
While this is a very skillful manipulation of the issue, the result is no real dialogue and no real movement. Everything is hidden behind 'do you support or not support?'
Israel has decided to play a power politics game with the US. They can get all the diplomatic cover they need, all the military support they require and literally half of the entire US foreign aid budget while brazenly engaging in systematic, state sponsored ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians. For those not completely driven out, the blockaded Gaza territory with all its human misery is their alternative.
This isn't an issue stirred up on campuses or only pushed by BDS. This is an issue that stares everyone in the face, both in Israel and the US. This is an issue that questions everyone's commitment to human rights and instead of real, sensible public dialogue we are left with silly notions of who supports Israel.
181
Dr. Spock, you should check your facts a little better. Israel received about 7.4% of US foreign aid in 2013, the last year for which USAID has published complete figures (https://explorer.usaid.gov/; see also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_foreign_aid.
Make no mistake, Israel's goal and plan is to take over as much, if not all, of Palestinian land, they believe that it is their God given right to that land and with the cover and protection of the United States, Israel is in FACT taking over Palestinian land settlement by settlement.
1
If the Israeli "settlements" in Judea and Samaria (aka "west bank") are the issue, why didn't the Israeli "settlements" in Gaza stop Israel from withdrawing its military and citizens from Gaza? The "settlements" in "the west bank" make up a very small portion of the territory. (I use quotation marks around settlements because even an ancient Jewish village such as Beit El is incorrectly considered a settlement by the media and UN)
2
“On the one hand, Israel provides settlers, and in many cases settlement businesses, with land, water infrastructure, resources, and financial incentives to encourage the growth of settlements. On the other hand, Israel confiscates Palestinian land, forcibly displaces Palestinians, restricts their freedom of movement, precludes them from building in all but 1 percent of the area of the West Bank under Israeli administrative control, and strictly limits their access to water and electricity.”
And then Netanyahu comes demanding $5Billion/year. We're outright subsidizing right wing Israel's behavior. How is this possible? It's possible because special interest politics is completely run amok in the US.
And then Netanyahu comes demanding $5Billion/year. We're outright subsidizing right wing Israel's behavior. How is this possible? It's possible because special interest politics is completely run amok in the US.
392
When did Netanyahu "demand" $5 billion/year? Why shouldn't Israel restrict the movement of people who are not citizens within the area it controls? How many Israelis/Jews are allowed to live in or move freely through PA controlled areas (Area A, Area B, and Gaza)?
2
It seems to me that among the players, the only side fully aware of and acting upon the reality on the ground is the Israeli right wing. Their actions speak for themselves, they do not act aimlessly they do not waste time. They get stuff done.
The other playerss are in flux; supporters of Palestinians coming up to speed and disorganized, Jewish liberals sitting on the fence, Christians refusing to investigate inconvenient truths, media under heavy pressure from longstanding power players with biases. Their actions effectively stalemate one another.
One side plays chess and poker, the others are collectively distracted to play checkers and go fish.
The point is this process is not in fact under negotiation. If you draw an arrow through right wing Israeli actions you see where it points, and that is surely where we will be in the long run. An ever expanding Israeli state with a marginal territory of Palestinians that never become integrated into Israel nor obtain statehood themselves. The one-state two-state issue is a ruse, the real long term bottom line is one state and reservation.
The other playerss are in flux; supporters of Palestinians coming up to speed and disorganized, Jewish liberals sitting on the fence, Christians refusing to investigate inconvenient truths, media under heavy pressure from longstanding power players with biases. Their actions effectively stalemate one another.
One side plays chess and poker, the others are collectively distracted to play checkers and go fish.
The point is this process is not in fact under negotiation. If you draw an arrow through right wing Israeli actions you see where it points, and that is surely where we will be in the long run. An ever expanding Israeli state with a marginal territory of Palestinians that never become integrated into Israel nor obtain statehood themselves. The one-state two-state issue is a ruse, the real long term bottom line is one state and reservation.
3
Roger Cohen's heart is in the right place. His concern for what Israel has become and for the grossly unjust suffering inflicted on the Palestinians is eloquently expressed and genuine. But he still doesn't get it.
Israel will never give up sovereignty over Judea and Samaria. Israel will never allow a Palestinian state to be created. Netanyahu himself, who now passes for a “moderate”, has stated this openly. Since the political trend in Israel is increasingly towards the right, both religious and secular, it is impossible to imagine that the next Israeli government will be more likely to decide to treat the Palestinians any better than the current one.
Therefore suggestions such as to close loopholes benefitting Jewish settlers or to better label products that are produced by those settlers — suggestions which only make sense in the context of promoting the “two-state solution” — are simply misguided.
What is urgently needed is for the United States, Israel's patron, to close ALL tax loopholes that benefit Israel per se; stop protecting Israel in the UN and other international forums; insist that its lobby register as foreign agents; and remedy America’s corrupt system of campaign financing.
The goal of this pressure would be to persuade Israel to reform its society and laws so that Palestinians are treated no differently from other citizens or residents of Israel.
13
Excellent! Do the Palestinian leaders have a duty to quell the hate, or to direct it? By urging peace are their leaders enabling the Israeli occupation? Massive peaceful protest ala Gandhi should now be able to work. Israel is operating a very large outdoor prison and the world is seeing it clearly now. This is a human rights issue far more than a Palestinian/Israeli conflict.
Israel has two basic choices. One, recognise a truly independent Palestinian with peace guaranteed by world powers. Two, recognise the single nation reality; cease to exist as a Jewish state, end apartheid and recognise the human rights of their fellow Palestinian citizens. Was option two not the view of Israel's founders?
Israel has two basic choices. One, recognise a truly independent Palestinian with peace guaranteed by world powers. Two, recognise the single nation reality; cease to exist as a Jewish state, end apartheid and recognise the human rights of their fellow Palestinian citizens. Was option two not the view of Israel's founders?
9
And let's stop the annual $3 billion handouts. Affluent Israel hasn't needed them for years. And Israel, if it really were a friend, would have stopped taking them long ago. Better to spend that money on our own citizenry, too many of whom have been devastated by fires, floods, droughts. And to begin a refurbishing of our crumbling infra structure--desperately needed.
22
Actually, our assistance to Israel is in the form of military aid. The missile protection system the U.S. recently funded for Israel saved countless Israeli lives during recent bombardments from Gaza. But perhaps you don't think those lives were all that important.
2
Sure, all lives are important. But Israelis are entirely capable of protecting Israelis--as attested by their record of the past six decades. We should not be denying aid to our own citizenry--to the American taxpayers who make such aid possible--to accommodate Israeli avarice. What do we get in return, other than contempt and contumely?
Another Israel bashing column by Roger Cohen. An entire column devoted to the suffering of Palestinians without even a single mention of how many offers of territory the Israeli's have made to them while the Israeli's suffer under a daily barrage of terrorist shootings, stabbings and murder. " Israel, in turn, exercises corrosive dominion." Then perhaps the Palestinians should have accepted the numerous deals offered to them to take back territory. When will the Times stop offering a free mouthpiece to avowed - and clearly biased - Israel bashers like Cohen?
17
Never. These columns are a feature, not a bug, of the New York Times Op Ed section and its news section, too. That's why I no longer pay for a subscription, and only read the free articles per month. I can afford it, but I'm not contributing my Jewish money to the Times' anti-Semitic..... err.. I mean anti-Zionist agenda.
6
AVR,
simply stated, Israel steals occupied land, puts 500,000 settlers there and then sets conditions to return to 1968 borders. Not to mention the brutal occupation and oppression. So, what are the Palestinians supposed to accept?
simply stated, Israel steals occupied land, puts 500,000 settlers there and then sets conditions to return to 1968 borders. Not to mention the brutal occupation and oppression. So, what are the Palestinians supposed to accept?
8
The territory is disputed, not occupied. You can't "steal" land that isn't owned by someone else. Palestinians are not native to the West Bank - they came from Jordan and Egypt. Pick up a history book and a map.
3
The Israeli Arabs, Palestinians and entire Muslim world has never recognized Israel's right to exist. The only exceptions in the Muslim world are Jordan and Egyptm, yet hatred of Israel and Jews is still taught in the Mosques and schools of those two nations.
There are no jews remaining in any European or Middle Eastern nations. Where does mr. Cohen want the Jews to settle in peace if not in their ancestral homeland?
There are no jews remaining in any European or Middle Eastern nations. Where does mr. Cohen want the Jews to settle in peace if not in their ancestral homeland?
16
In the United States, and I say Welcome.
Florida
So Johnson, you're OK with Jews being singled out as one group of people in the world not entitled to form a country in their ancestral homeland?
You're in Chicago, like me, Johnson. Both of us are living in the Saulk/Fox ancestral homeland. I think we'd better get back to our own ancestral homelands right away and give this city back to the Native Americans, its rightful owners.
You're in Chicago, like me, Johnson. Both of us are living in the Saulk/Fox ancestral homeland. I think we'd better get back to our own ancestral homelands right away and give this city back to the Native Americans, its rightful owners.
2
Israel is giving the Palestinians absolutely no hope that this can be settled peacefully. The settlers are stabbing peace in the heart as thoroughly as Palestinians terrorists do.
14
Mr. Cohen is the voice of Israels conscience. J-Street puts the best of Israeli values by electing Amna Farooqi. What a refreshing change from the vitriol we hear from the right in America these days.
12
"'To be pro-Israel is being seen as more and more of a right-wing thing,” Amna Farooqi, the president of J Street U, the campus branch of J Street, the liberal pro-Israel, pro-peace Jewish lobbying group, told me."
I'm sorry, but it is pure propaganda that J Street is "pro-Israel" or "pro-peace" lobby. They regularly accept donations from foreign anti-Israel supporters (George Soros gave millions to them), Palestinian groups and anti-Israel supporters. Does Cohen really expect us to believe a "pro-Israel" group would have a Muslim who espouses anti-Israel policies at its helm?
Give us a break.
I'm sorry, but it is pure propaganda that J Street is "pro-Israel" or "pro-peace" lobby. They regularly accept donations from foreign anti-Israel supporters (George Soros gave millions to them), Palestinian groups and anti-Israel supporters. Does Cohen really expect us to believe a "pro-Israel" group would have a Muslim who espouses anti-Israel policies at its helm?
Give us a break.
11
Way too tepid. Sure, close the loopholes and label West-Bank goods. But let's fully and forcefully say: the West Bank settlements are illegal and they have to go. They were wrong when they started, and they're wrong now. It's true that Israeli enforcement of laws is shamefully unequal, but with the settlements, what we have is far worse, an Israeli support of a grossly illegal enterprise, which is nothing less than a slow-motion ethnic cleansing.
Calling Netanyahu's ministers illiberal is really soft-pedaling it. Netanyahu consistently has crass racists in his governments, and he himself race-baited in the last election. It is moving on an increasingly undemocratic course.
Those who want to help Israel can do so best by frankly criticizing these things and demanding they change -- Israel, on its current course, is losing legitimacy every day, by its own actions. (None of this is meant to excuse terrorism against Israel, of course.)
Calling Netanyahu's ministers illiberal is really soft-pedaling it. Netanyahu consistently has crass racists in his governments, and he himself race-baited in the last election. It is moving on an increasingly undemocratic course.
Those who want to help Israel can do so best by frankly criticizing these things and demanding they change -- Israel, on its current course, is losing legitimacy every day, by its own actions. (None of this is meant to excuse terrorism against Israel, of course.)
33
Image is not Israel's problem.
The reality of their horrific oppression and mass murder of the Palestinians is their problem. That's what it was. Their bombing of Gaza in August 2014. And their continuing apartheid over the Palestinians. Anyone who is not a Zionist and who looks, will see that their actions are destroying their right to exist.
The reality of their horrific oppression and mass murder of the Palestinians is their problem. That's what it was. Their bombing of Gaza in August 2014. And their continuing apartheid over the Palestinians. Anyone who is not a Zionist and who looks, will see that their actions are destroying their right to exist.
30
Hmmm. Children learn to hate Jews in school (see Malala's book), over the last 20 years, nearly 20 Billion dollars in foreign aid to the Palestinians was not used to create a Palestinian homeland to benefit its citizens, instead it was spent on spewing hate and building tunnels to kill. But, of course, it's all the fault of the Israelis.
28
The incessant mantra of "Israel needs to stop building settlements and enagege the peace process, Israels borders are at the 1967 lines", shows the naivete of the Obama administration and those parroting these ideas.
The Palestinian leadership has never put down its old playbook, the one that says "One day we will return home and drive the Jews out of our land". When are Palestinian leaders going to be held accountable for the incitement of violence they foment?
Israel unilaterally withdrew from Gaza, Hamas was voted into power and Gaza has become a base for radical Islamic terror, holding Israel AND Palestinians in Gaza hostage to its death cult. Gaza could have been an example to Western leaders of what could go wrong in arab elections where Islamic radicals had a strong foot hold, but Obama ignored it and Egypt got The Muslim Brotherhood.
Until pressure is put on Palestinians to renounce terror, to stop inciting martyrdom as a solution to the misery brought on by their own leadership there will never be a peace.
Repeating something again and again "Stop the settlements…" doesn't make the idea the solution. We watch the results of the Obama administrations Mid-East policy everyday, as Syria & Libya continue their decent into hell. Maybe calling for an end to Palestinian incitement / death to Israel as a precursor to peace talks, is a good place to start.
The Palestinian leadership has never put down its old playbook, the one that says "One day we will return home and drive the Jews out of our land". When are Palestinian leaders going to be held accountable for the incitement of violence they foment?
Israel unilaterally withdrew from Gaza, Hamas was voted into power and Gaza has become a base for radical Islamic terror, holding Israel AND Palestinians in Gaza hostage to its death cult. Gaza could have been an example to Western leaders of what could go wrong in arab elections where Islamic radicals had a strong foot hold, but Obama ignored it and Egypt got The Muslim Brotherhood.
Until pressure is put on Palestinians to renounce terror, to stop inciting martyrdom as a solution to the misery brought on by their own leadership there will never be a peace.
Repeating something again and again "Stop the settlements…" doesn't make the idea the solution. We watch the results of the Obama administrations Mid-East policy everyday, as Syria & Libya continue their decent into hell. Maybe calling for an end to Palestinian incitement / death to Israel as a precursor to peace talks, is a good place to start.
14
You are correct.
The Palestinians do want all of Israel.
If they didn't they would not demand "THE RIGHT OF RERTURN"
They would acknowledge Israel being a Jewish state as all of the Arab states are acknowledged as Muslim states.
It is because of this demand a peace agreement has not been made and will never be made.
The Palestinians do want all of Israel.
If they didn't they would not demand "THE RIGHT OF RERTURN"
They would acknowledge Israel being a Jewish state as all of the Arab states are acknowledged as Muslim states.
It is because of this demand a peace agreement has not been made and will never be made.
8
Tobytoo,
I mostly agree, but let's remember that the Bush administration fully supported and encouraged the Gaza election that brought Hamas to power. It happened in 2006, well before Obama's Presidency. You can't blame Obama for everything.
I mostly agree, but let's remember that the Bush administration fully supported and encouraged the Gaza election that brought Hamas to power. It happened in 2006, well before Obama's Presidency. You can't blame Obama for everything.
2
The American population has been very carefully shielded from Israel's excesses and illegality in its treatment of its fellow semites, the Palestinians.
For decades there has been near unanimity around the world about Israel's responsibility to the people it has displaced but Americans are only now gradually waking up to it.
The young know because the young get their news from the internet while the older generations still rely on a very captured, old school news industry which seeks to entrench the status quo, rarely to challenge it.
For decades there has been near unanimity around the world about Israel's responsibility to the people it has displaced but Americans are only now gradually waking up to it.
The young know because the young get their news from the internet while the older generations still rely on a very captured, old school news industry which seeks to entrench the status quo, rarely to challenge it.
31
Speaking of moral cowardice, where is the moral courage of the New York Times, at the center of America's Jewish community? Where is the moral courage to stand up to Netanyahu's bullying apartheid policy against the Palestinian community?
Where is the Times' moral courage in exposing AIPAC and all its manipulations of members of Congress to support billions of foreign aid to Israel?
When is the last time the Times mentioned Miko Peled's book "The General's Son" which exposes Israel's long history of apartheid toward the Palestinian community?
So much for objective, unbiased journalism!
Where is the Times' moral courage in exposing AIPAC and all its manipulations of members of Congress to support billions of foreign aid to Israel?
When is the last time the Times mentioned Miko Peled's book "The General's Son" which exposes Israel's long history of apartheid toward the Palestinian community?
So much for objective, unbiased journalism!
44
Where is the Times' moral courage to demand that Palestinians accept Israel and make peace with Israel NOW so that they can have their own country NOW?
2
Israel...Israel... everything is focused on Jerusalem,., Why aren't the same standards used against Myanmar, Russia, Iran Shia Suni and others or how about the South American counties purges against the native Indians, or china's discrimination policies against the Tibetans....No only Washington has a hard on for Jerusalem Because they can and Israel is Jewish.. If the shoe was reversed and the Palestinians were in control doing the same thing against the Jews, Washington would be silent! The history of Washington since Roosevelt, and his state department till now is very one sided. But when the administration changes.... sanity will re-enter the picture. It is not the Israelis who are terrorizing the world and blowing up innocent people all over....It is the Palestinians, Shias, Iranians, Hezbollah and Hamas... Syria is not a Eden. Remember that before you condemn the innocent.
17
it is not all of Washington - just Obama, Kerry and the NY Times. The rest of Washington realizes that the Palestinians want the end of Israel - nothing less. They don't want to co-exist nexty to a strong jewish state, so that's why they are perpetually at war, like all of their moslem neighbors.
8
Add Roger to the list. When it's dead Jews in Europe, he's there standing for truth and justice. When it's Jews back on historical land caught in a terribly messy conflict with a group that is still hoping for their annihilation, then he spends his time demonizing Netanyahu while making excuses for a Holocaust-denying Iranian regime composed of Shiite fanatics.
3
I guess the Israelis learned their history from the last century and have imposed a GHETTO system on the West Bank and even worse on the Gaza strip. Who chose them to impose their will against the Palestinians?
15
In response, let me quote another comment on this thread:
Israel unilaterally withdrew from Gaza, Hamas was voted into power and Gaza has become a base for radical Islamic terror, holding Israel AND Palestinians in Gaza hostage to its death cult.
Israel unilaterally withdrew from Gaza, Hamas was voted into power and Gaza has become a base for radical Islamic terror, holding Israel AND Palestinians in Gaza hostage to its death cult.
4
One of the most insidious aspects of Israel's occupation of the West Bank is it stokes anti-Semitism around the world. Not just among people who are inclined that way already but among people who want a democratic Jewish state of Israel to survive and prosper.
15
no, one of the most insidious aspects of anti-semitism is that is stokes an irrational hatred of Israel. The current stabbing intifadah is the result of incitement and hate education in Palestinian textbooks and mosques.
11
no- you buy into the fanatical religious right when you say questioning this policy is anti-Semitic! That is how they always try to shut up the question. If you do not understand why Likud is right already, you are a Nazi. That is the cheap trick used to shut down debate!
2
"One of the most insidious aspects of Israel's occupation of the West Bank is it stokes anti-Semitism around the world." And what "stoked" anti-Semitism before Israel was around?
Israel only has an image issue from a minority of progressives who have a unflappable kindred connection with Palestine. The majority of American's who are too busy living their lives are have a hard time joining the pity party for a heavily Islamic group of people who have been carrying out indiscriminate stabbings against Jews.
73
Unfortunately, the far left is in the same kind of bubble as the far right, all while thumbing their noses at and making fun of the far right. They are deluded into believing their views on Israel are based on "human rights" as opposed to anti-Semitic singling out of a tiny country that is no worse than most others, and their warped views of Israel are reinforced by the "news" they consume (including the rabid anti-Israel New York Times, and its Op Ed comment section).
6
Reflect on the causes that result in young and old Palestinians to get so fed up with the occupation, discrimination, theft of land and exclusion from some of its own lands and roads. When pushed too far, even Americans start rising up like the seditionists in the Malheur Refuge. By refusing to obey the law of the land, one was killed and the leaders arrested.
"Israel only has an image issue from a minority of progressives who have a unflappable kindred connection with Palestine." You mean in the US, right? I hope you understand that the US isn't the only country that matters and that large majorities in the rest of the world are opposed to Israel's current policies.
2
I don't often agree with Roger Cohen but this is a good editorial.
I'm a strong supporter of Israel. I've been there several times, I'm active in a couple of Israeli charities and I can converse in Hebrew. My political views are also right of center.
Nevertheless, Israel has taken a dangerous turn to the right. Israel is a country with very genuine security concerns - i.e. Hezbollah, Hamas, Iran, ISIS...- and needs all the allies it can get. However, Netanyahu and his cronies seem obsessed with sticking their fingers in the eyes of Israel's genuine friends and supporters around the globe.
The Palestinians have made many mistakes since Oslo and they've rejected many sincere Israeli attempts at peace. They're hardly blameless victims and the Palestinians are also responsible for the lack of peace.
But this doesn't justify many of the moronic actions of the Netanyahu government which I believe are self-defeating.
I'm a strong supporter of Israel. I've been there several times, I'm active in a couple of Israeli charities and I can converse in Hebrew. My political views are also right of center.
Nevertheless, Israel has taken a dangerous turn to the right. Israel is a country with very genuine security concerns - i.e. Hezbollah, Hamas, Iran, ISIS...- and needs all the allies it can get. However, Netanyahu and his cronies seem obsessed with sticking their fingers in the eyes of Israel's genuine friends and supporters around the globe.
The Palestinians have made many mistakes since Oslo and they've rejected many sincere Israeli attempts at peace. They're hardly blameless victims and the Palestinians are also responsible for the lack of peace.
But this doesn't justify many of the moronic actions of the Netanyahu government which I believe are self-defeating.
219
Forget the US-Israel alliance that's under strains, the continued settlement policy could alienate Israel from its own diaspora and the youth at home- a frightening spectre for the reality ignoring ultranationalist politico-military establishment.
16
It is not only an Israeli problem. Moslems in the southern Philippine island of Mindinao have been driving out Christians continually since 1948 with Saudi and Gulf Arab funding. They burn churches in General Santos City almost weekly. My wife's Christian family was driven off their farm with threats of beheading twenty years ago. This is part of a world wide movement funded by Arab oil money to terrorize Christians and all other faiths, even moderate Moslems. Why does the media not report this activity and only the Israeli problem with Arabs. By the way many Israeli Arabs are happily living in Israel with a much higher standard of living than neighboring countries. They have the right to vote, serve in Parliament in a democracy and have good paying jobs.
22
I am waiting for Netanyahu to refer to the United States as "My Golem".
10
I'm waiting for Roger Cohen to refer to Israelis -- who overwhelmingly believe he lives in a fantasy world -- as "those Jews".
6
Why not give some reporting about the amazing pharmaceutical industry that Israel has created with new drugs that may even cure Parkinsons disease and other neurological diseases that an Isreali woman discovered in her research. Do you want this unique state that has given so many medical advances destroyed by the hateful Moslem world?
17
The conclusion you draw about any complex situation is determined, in advance, by where you decide to start your narrative. Begin with Israel's occupation or Palestinian rejection of Israel and promotion of its destruction and your conclusion writes itself. A more complex narrative is closer to the whole truth. Please, Mr. Cohen, your bending over backward to establish your "objectivity" does not serve the cause of justice and, from your position of influence, contributes to extremism on both sides.
10
Surely, us Jewish people have been the victims of much hate, bigotry, and cruelty over the years.
However, as this "little American Jew boy" gets older, a couple of things become more and more apparent to me:
(1) The fact that we have been victims does not mean we are immune from victimizing others.
(2) The fact that we are sometimes right does not mean that we are never wrong.
Hubris, my fellow Americans who are Jewish. Hubris. It is okay to admit that we are not infallible. After all, aren't we human?
However, as this "little American Jew boy" gets older, a couple of things become more and more apparent to me:
(1) The fact that we have been victims does not mean we are immune from victimizing others.
(2) The fact that we are sometimes right does not mean that we are never wrong.
Hubris, my fellow Americans who are Jewish. Hubris. It is okay to admit that we are not infallible. After all, aren't we human?
352
Larry - Well said.
1
you are so right.
As an American and a Jew, in whichever order you like, It's not a belief in Jewish infallibility that I fear, it's the same religious fundamentalism one finds almost everywhere on the planet, but here asserts a divine right to all of the Holy Land. That and a corrosive right wing dominated Israeli government that rolls over to the settler movement again and again.
1
Israel is no better than the Islamic countries it criticizes. It has turned into a corrupt theocracy, and I'd rather not support this country as much as we do.
55
The analysis by Human Rights Watch describes an imbalance between Israelis and Palestinians that is bound continue for years. Israeli control of West Bank land will grow. Thus, the possibility of the two-state solution is fading. It seems increasingly clear that the only possible solution will be one state: Israelis and Palestinians living side by side between the Jordan and the Mediterranean and having equal representation in the national parliament.
Israel began as the nation of refuge of Jews from the Nazi Holocaust. The history of its origin and that of the great work of its founding fathers will never change. But times do change, and Israel must move on to take its place among the fully democratic nations of the world.
Israel began as the nation of refuge of Jews from the Nazi Holocaust. The history of its origin and that of the great work of its founding fathers will never change. But times do change, and Israel must move on to take its place among the fully democratic nations of the world.
9
"Israelis and Palestinians living side by side between the Jordan and the Mediterranean and having equal representation in the national parliament." In other words, a Palestinian state with a Jewish minority. What is not right for Israelis--denying Palestinians self-rule in a single Israeli ruled state, cannot be right if done by Palestinians.
Name one country that is more democratic than Israel.
2
I am a Jew, a secular American one. Israel would not exist as a state if not for WW2 and the consequent guilt of western powers. Like the US, Israel is an experiment. It is a test of whether a state can be "Jewish and Democratic". Results are not in. When I talk to American Jewish friends brought up on the Zionist ideal in the 50s and 60s and describe Israel as an apartheid state the pain is visible on their faces, for now the vision they inhaled in their youth is absent from the current reality. They can't talk about it. It is too painful. But their children can.
81
I am not Jewish, but I read "Exodus" in my youth and also "inhaled" the Zionist ideals. I have great respect and admiration for the Jewish people, and can only hope that their wisdom will somehow reverse the madness of the current path of the Israeli government.
Israel does not have an image problem.
It has a behavior problem.
Israel is still the beloved child of the US, but it is delinquent and the cause of much heartache.
The outside world is cracking down on it, and US defense against that is failing, going too far and unable to go far enough.
Even in the US, talk now is of tough love, to save Israel from itself.
That is not image.
It has a behavior problem.
Israel is still the beloved child of the US, but it is delinquent and the cause of much heartache.
The outside world is cracking down on it, and US defense against that is failing, going too far and unable to go far enough.
Even in the US, talk now is of tough love, to save Israel from itself.
That is not image.
49
Mark, while you're recent interest in the conflict is commendable, it doesn't fill in the decades of events you have missed out on, namely that the world has always acted this way to Israel. Those like yourself were silent when Israeli children were kidnapped and blown-up, decade after decade. But Israelis have ignored the ignorant and continued to train Palestinian doctors, treat palestinian patients, create technology that you use, live among Christians and Muslims and develop technology for growing food in the desert. You on the other hand, continue to support terrorist governments who torture their own.
3
Soon after the Six Day War, Israeli philosopher and scientist Yeshayahu Leibowitz warned that occupation, the "curse of dominating another people," would corrupt Israel and push it toward fascism. History is proving him correct. Messianic nationalism is destroying Israel from within. For now the Palestinians are paying the heavier price, and the Israeli right wing imagines that Israel can repress them forever. It is a dark delusion. The Israeli right is building a violent prison for both sides.
133
Yes, I'm sure the people of Sderot under continual rocket fire and terror tunnels from the very area Israel left completely and unilaterally in 2005 are so much more enlightened politically than those "fascists" further north who are not yet faced with a dysfunctional Islamist terror group in control of the West Bank since they have been given the chance yet as in Gaza ... at least not yet.
5
“To be pro-Israel is being seen as more and more of a right-wing thing”
That is partly because of the ill-advised link to the Republican Party, involving itself in american politics on what we see as our right wing.
Yes, Israel is right wing, but the US simply refused to see that for a long time, until our nose was rubbed in it by Netanyahu.
That is partly because of the ill-advised link to the Republican Party, involving itself in american politics on what we see as our right wing.
Yes, Israel is right wing, but the US simply refused to see that for a long time, until our nose was rubbed in it by Netanyahu.
42
Israel has parties on all side of the political spectrum just like the US and many other democracies do, though Labor and Likud are their main ones. There were times when the Knesset and the PM were both left wing as well, but you'll probably deny that because it goes against what you are saying. The only reason why Bibi won was mainly because many believed he could stop the terrorist attacks from Hamas. As much as I hate him, he is the PM of the Israel and there is nothing that can be done until the next election or if he commits a crime that calls from to be removed and arrested. Keep in mind that the Palestinian parliament is full of a bunch of groups that want nothing but Israel to be destroyed with groups such as Hamas and Fatah. Also, many of the politicians there serve almost for life instead of the number of years they are supposed to serve despite being elected for a particular term. Even at the time of the disengagement, many Israelis supported a part known as Kadima that was a centrist party willing to work with the plan when at the same time, Palestinians elected Hamas, who just wants to see all Jews dead. I highly doubt that any pro-Israel group will ever be elected in the Palestinian territories if once should ever come in the near future and will probably be killed for being Israel collaborators while there are many Israelis that might be pro-Palestinians that have served in the Knesset.
2
“I don’t see a possibility at the moment of implementing the two-state solution,” he told Army Radio. “I want to yearn for it, I want to move toward it, I want negotiations, I sign on to it and I am obligated to it, but I don’t see the possibility of doing it right now.” -- Isaac Herzog (Left Labor Israel opposition leader)
Looks like you have another Israeli you'll have to obsess over Rog, besides Netanyahu ... this time from the Israeli Left. Is it remotely possible he also knows something you don't ... or wish not to know?
Since both Arafat and Abbas have rejected sweeping proposals from Israeli Left and Center leaders offering 100% of Gaza, a redivision of Jerusalem, and 95% of Judea/Samaria with balancing land swaps in return for an end to any further claims and a full peace; and considering what we saw happened -- even you, I think -- when Israel unilaterally withdrew from Gaza and Southern Lebanon -- the areas were quickly taken over by Islamic terrorist groups (as if "Munich Massacre" Fatah isn't one itself at heart), what do you propose to end the so-called "occupation" besides your weekly Israel-bashing from the safety of London (or at least relative safety of London these days, no thanks to various Islamic terror groups)?
Maybe if you spent a bit more time over the spectacle of European nations all with Jewish blood on their hands tripping over themselves for Iranian cash, whose leader just yesterday once again publicly denied the Holocaust, you'd be better off
Looks like you have another Israeli you'll have to obsess over Rog, besides Netanyahu ... this time from the Israeli Left. Is it remotely possible he also knows something you don't ... or wish not to know?
Since both Arafat and Abbas have rejected sweeping proposals from Israeli Left and Center leaders offering 100% of Gaza, a redivision of Jerusalem, and 95% of Judea/Samaria with balancing land swaps in return for an end to any further claims and a full peace; and considering what we saw happened -- even you, I think -- when Israel unilaterally withdrew from Gaza and Southern Lebanon -- the areas were quickly taken over by Islamic terrorist groups (as if "Munich Massacre" Fatah isn't one itself at heart), what do you propose to end the so-called "occupation" besides your weekly Israel-bashing from the safety of London (or at least relative safety of London these days, no thanks to various Islamic terror groups)?
Maybe if you spent a bit more time over the spectacle of European nations all with Jewish blood on their hands tripping over themselves for Iranian cash, whose leader just yesterday once again publicly denied the Holocaust, you'd be better off
18
Perhaps the 'Times can publish these agreements that no one has ever seen, that you speak of as if they are true. The closest was former Prime Minister of Israel Ehud Olmert, who offered a reportedly viable deal. But he would not give the "map" to Mahmoud Abbas so he could share it with other Palestinian officials. Abbas had to make a hastily drawn crude "map" on a napkin; they were supposed to be dancing with joy and handing out candy on a "map" that Israel never provided eh? Only facts, not fallacies of logic will save Israel now.
6
And you'd be better off, perhaps, by honestly characterizing Israel's withdrawal from Gaza. How do goods get to Gaza by sea? If you want to fly
into Gaza what airport do you key into Travelocity.com? Israel controls the
maritime and air traffic in and out. Israeli settlers withdrew from Gaza but
the heavy hand of its military hasn't. There is an obvious necessity for that since Hamas is hardly a benign neighbor. Just be honest and don't characterize Israel's conduct as a withdrawal because it isn't.
into Gaza what airport do you key into Travelocity.com? Israel controls the
maritime and air traffic in and out. Israeli settlers withdrew from Gaza but
the heavy hand of its military hasn't. There is an obvious necessity for that since Hamas is hardly a benign neighbor. Just be honest and don't characterize Israel's conduct as a withdrawal because it isn't.
8
Hey BSNews. Try reading Dennis Ross' book regarding those negotiations with Arafat, Barak and Bill Clinton. Try reading the statement made by Saudi prince Bandar (not exactly a card-carrying member of AIPAC) who described Arafat's rejection of that plan as a "crime against the Palestinian people." As for Abbas, his lame excuse was that he didn't keep the map. What? You mean he can't include wording such as "predicated upon receipt of map confirming details" or something such.
As for saving Israel, the country grows and becomes more and more advanced, its economy and technology becoming one of the most advanced in the world. As the old Arab expression goes: "The dogs bark, but the caravan keeps moving."
Talk about someone to save? Just wait to see how the Palestinians behave among themselves when Abbas dies or leaves and the power honchos, kleptocrats, tribal leaders and Islamists all vie for control, and then ask yourself if this is what you want for a sovereign neighbor just 10 miles from your heartland.
As for saving Israel, the country grows and becomes more and more advanced, its economy and technology becoming one of the most advanced in the world. As the old Arab expression goes: "The dogs bark, but the caravan keeps moving."
Talk about someone to save? Just wait to see how the Palestinians behave among themselves when Abbas dies or leaves and the power honchos, kleptocrats, tribal leaders and Islamists all vie for control, and then ask yourself if this is what you want for a sovereign neighbor just 10 miles from your heartland.
4
Trump sees through Netanyahu and company...it will not be pretty if he is elected, but may ultimately be good for israel.
5
Trump is most horrifying to that large Jewish segment of the "Republican Establishment" which follows the Shel Adelson Likud party line. This crowd has done all it could to defeat and curb Obama precisely because they could not control him. Trump could be even more devastating to them, because he could change the lockstep support for Likud Israel among the right-wing masses which Adelson and AIPAC have used to make fanatical toadying to Likud THE litmus test for all Republican (and most Democratic) politicians for so many years.
2
This issue seems deeper than one of "image."
23
"Palestinian leaders also have a responsibility to curb that hate . . ." Seeing your playmate get shot, your home demolished, your neighbors brutalized by the Israeli army and settlers, does more to incite hate than any media discourse or anything learned in school. The long suffering Palestinians have a legitimate grievance. Forced from their homes in 1948 without recompense, the land grab continues. The Palestinians have recognized the Israeli state on 78% of the land that used to be Palestine. The price the U.S. pays for the continuance of the occupation goes far beyond the $3.5 billion we give Israel every year. Israel was the only country that egged Bush on to invade Iraq and take out Israel's then biggest enemy. The U.S. in the eyes of the world is seen as aiding and abetting the Israeli occupation of Palestine with our UN vetoes of any criticism of Israel. Remember Hillary's strident remark, "We should have used our veto!" after the U.S. abstained from voting on one particularly egregious issue.
43
No. They refuse to recognize a Jewish state. 78%? 75% of British Mandate "Palestine" (the name coined by the Romans after their conquest of Judea) was handed to the Hashemites of Mecca when they were booted out by the Saudis in 1922. The REMAINING 25% is what the Jews and the Palestinian Arabs have been fighting over. Israel was willing to settle for about half of that -- 12.5% -- in 1947; but even that wasn't good enough for the Arabs. So they went to war in three attempts at annihilating Israel, and lost. Please name one other country in history that was expected to give back any land gained from an attacker in a defensive war. Just one, please.
UN Resolution 242 -- the cornerstone of a possible peace agreement -- specifically calls for Israel to trade "territories" -- not "the territories". The architects of this UN resolution such as then US ambassador Arthur Goldberg clearly stated this wording was not an error. The Palestinians can keep rejecting and keep brainwashing their populations with Jew-hate. Israel will keep growing and building ... on land never ruled by any Palestinian state ever, and for which when illegally occupied by Jordan between 1948-1967, we never heard a peep of protest from this supposed Palestinian nation. Where were they then? Or is it they are a group of Arab tribes when any Muslim regime rules the roost; but suddenly are a nation going back to Canaanite days or earlier as soon as the Jews return to their historic homeland?
UN Resolution 242 -- the cornerstone of a possible peace agreement -- specifically calls for Israel to trade "territories" -- not "the territories". The architects of this UN resolution such as then US ambassador Arthur Goldberg clearly stated this wording was not an error. The Palestinians can keep rejecting and keep brainwashing their populations with Jew-hate. Israel will keep growing and building ... on land never ruled by any Palestinian state ever, and for which when illegally occupied by Jordan between 1948-1967, we never heard a peep of protest from this supposed Palestinian nation. Where were they then? Or is it they are a group of Arab tribes when any Muslim regime rules the roost; but suddenly are a nation going back to Canaanite days or earlier as soon as the Jews return to their historic homeland?
9
How about you tell me why the other 78% that wasn't going to be the Jewish state go to being the Hashemite Kingdom of Trans-Jordan instead? More importantly, why didn't that ruling family even grant a state for them with the stroke of a pen or even give them the West Bank when they had it? My guess is that they had no interest in having a Palestinian state. As for the Iraq War, it had absolutely nothing to do with Israel, and they weren't even involved in it at all. In other words, the recent Iraq War wasn't Israel's proxy by any means, and there was never any found proof that they were egging Bush to declare it. BTW, Israel didn't even participate in the Persian Gulf War despite the number of times Saddam Hussein launched rockets on them, but didn't even bother to fire back.
2
The Israeli government appears to have no idea that it is endangering future support for Israel in the United States. Being able to count on support from some powerful older Americans will not help Israel if the country continues to alienate younger Americans.
175
Netanyahu is ultimately self-destructive and he will take down Israel along with himself.
The "settlements" need to be disenfranchised at the same time that both the Palestinians and Israelis recognize the boundaries that their grandparents should have acceded to at the time of the creation of Israel.
The "settlements" need to be disenfranchised at the same time that both the Palestinians and Israelis recognize the boundaries that their grandparents should have acceded to at the time of the creation of Israel.
1
Dead right. Having grown up young and angry with my white parents and the grotesque segregated order they and their friends all took for granted in MLK's Atlanta, I can assure you that the values of the young invariably prevail in the end. Shel Adelson and his ilk will soon be six feet under, to be replaced by younger Jews as committed to justice and upending the unjust order their parents supported as I was in Atlanta so long ago.
4
The Israelis and their American allies fervently believed in sanctions on Iran--to the point that Netanyahu came all the way to our Congress to tell us that we should apply broader sanctions on the Iranians, not make peace with them.
Our sanctions against Iran worked well, and I think we'll have even better results if we apply the to Israel.
Our sanctions against Iran worked well, and I think we'll have even better results if we apply the to Israel.
242
Yes, an image issue.... But so much more. Cohen isn't suggesting that good sense on this one facet will produce a stable situation with a clear path to peace. Our own polarized politics are beyond sensible measures here-- imagine the many added complications of Israel's polarized politics. Who first said it, "Poor Israel. They wanted Athens. They got Sparta."
27
One needs to go no further than the comments section of The Times Of Israel or the Jeruselem Post to see how Israelis feel about American Jews. Their hatred toward America, our President and American Jews is a shock to the system. As an American Jew myself, Netanyahu's "Sophie" Choice", forcing us to choose between our religion or our country is beyond the pale.
174
Re: Anti American comments in the Times of Israel
The Times of Israel is financially backed by an American, Seth Klarman, who followed Sheldon Adelson, owner of Israel Hayom, and Ron Lauder, who supported and supports Channel 10.
There is an increasing investment of older Americans into Israeli media to shape public opinion in Israel, and from the US point, not always for the better.
The Times of Israel is financially backed by an American, Seth Klarman, who followed Sheldon Adelson, owner of Israel Hayom, and Ron Lauder, who supported and supports Channel 10.
There is an increasing investment of older Americans into Israeli media to shape public opinion in Israel, and from the US point, not always for the better.
8
Can Israel even be a truly "Jewish" state? To me, that requires all Jews being equal. This includes equality in a philosophical, moral, and ethical sense. More importantly, it includes, and demands, equality in a religious, legal, and political sense. Israel now is moving away from that.
Can Conservative, Reformed, and Reconstructionist perform marriages, conversions, and other religious ceremonies in Israel and have them recognized by the Israeli government? No. The ultra-Orthodox, the haredim, have a state monopoly on that. Women cannot pray at the Wailing Wall. They cannot bring prayer scrolls with them. If they even try, the haredim riot and the police evict the women. Maybe all Jews are equal in Israel, but some are more equal than others. And those "others" include the vast majority of American and Diaspora Jews. Yet Israel demands those lesser Jews unconditionally support the Israel that spits in their faces.
The haredim are gaining political power in Israel. As they do, the Israeli government restricts the religious rights of other Jews. As long as this continues, and until it is reversed, Israel cannot be a truly "Jewish" state, one for all Jews.
Can Conservative, Reformed, and Reconstructionist perform marriages, conversions, and other religious ceremonies in Israel and have them recognized by the Israeli government? No. The ultra-Orthodox, the haredim, have a state monopoly on that. Women cannot pray at the Wailing Wall. They cannot bring prayer scrolls with them. If they even try, the haredim riot and the police evict the women. Maybe all Jews are equal in Israel, but some are more equal than others. And those "others" include the vast majority of American and Diaspora Jews. Yet Israel demands those lesser Jews unconditionally support the Israel that spits in their faces.
The haredim are gaining political power in Israel. As they do, the Israeli government restricts the religious rights of other Jews. As long as this continues, and until it is reversed, Israel cannot be a truly "Jewish" state, one for all Jews.
139
yes, I am glad to see someone write of population beyond just man, Jew and Palestinian - there are women there & there are Christians there & there are blacks there. I have never visited, but it is hard to imagine that they are treated equally enough to define their system of government as a Democracy. For example, they have no constitution. if you have nothing written "guaranteeing" what rights people have - guess you can change the rules or right them as you go along.....
1
"Palestinian leaders also have a responsibility to curb that hate — to cease incitement, hold elections, overcome divisions and abandon their sterile retreat into victimhood."
Well, they have had many chances to do just that beginning the the late 1940s. Neither they nor most of their Muslim brethren have been able to acknowledge the state of Israel -- nor can they admit that a Palestine larger than Israel was part of the bargain, with Jerusalem as an international city, and they blew it by launching wars against the Jews.
At one point, land you've lost in a war of your own choosing gets forfeited.
And, let's face it: Israel returned the Sinai and Gaza, both of which were won, again, in wars begun by Muslims. And what happened? Instead of creating peaceful communities, Arabs made these areas staging grounds for terrorist attacks. Paid for by us.
Unfortunately, as in many things, reality is what people make it. And Muslims have been very good at keeping Palestinians in refugee camps for all the world to see instead of integrating them.
With relatives and family friends who had to flee Turkey at the start of the last century, I'd be hard pressed to find any that stayed in refugee camps in Greece just to get back at the Ottomans.
Well, they have had many chances to do just that beginning the the late 1940s. Neither they nor most of their Muslim brethren have been able to acknowledge the state of Israel -- nor can they admit that a Palestine larger than Israel was part of the bargain, with Jerusalem as an international city, and they blew it by launching wars against the Jews.
At one point, land you've lost in a war of your own choosing gets forfeited.
And, let's face it: Israel returned the Sinai and Gaza, both of which were won, again, in wars begun by Muslims. And what happened? Instead of creating peaceful communities, Arabs made these areas staging grounds for terrorist attacks. Paid for by us.
Unfortunately, as in many things, reality is what people make it. And Muslims have been very good at keeping Palestinians in refugee camps for all the world to see instead of integrating them.
With relatives and family friends who had to flee Turkey at the start of the last century, I'd be hard pressed to find any that stayed in refugee camps in Greece just to get back at the Ottomans.
222
"And Muslims have been very good at keeping Palestinians in refugee camps for all the world to see instead of integrating them."
Where are they supposed to go?
- Egypt by treaty keeps the border between Gaza and Egypt closed. Israel basically blocks the border between Gaza and Israel. That leaves exactly nowhere that residents of Gaza can go if they want to leave.
- Those who live in the West Bank are in a similar position, except with Jordan and Israel surrounding them.
- Yes, those living in the Golon Heights could escape to Syria, but given that everybody who's in Syria is trying to leave any way they can to get away from the all-out 3-sided war going on there, nobody would.
I'm pretty sure you have never been in a refugee camp. You would not want to stay there just to prove a point. People live in refugee camps because the alternative is a more immediate death then the one they might well find in a refugee camp.
Where are they supposed to go?
- Egypt by treaty keeps the border between Gaza and Egypt closed. Israel basically blocks the border between Gaza and Israel. That leaves exactly nowhere that residents of Gaza can go if they want to leave.
- Those who live in the West Bank are in a similar position, except with Jordan and Israel surrounding them.
- Yes, those living in the Golon Heights could escape to Syria, but given that everybody who's in Syria is trying to leave any way they can to get away from the all-out 3-sided war going on there, nobody would.
I'm pretty sure you have never been in a refugee camp. You would not want to stay there just to prove a point. People live in refugee camps because the alternative is a more immediate death then the one they might well find in a refugee camp.
63
Israel does to others what has been done to them. Hard to believe it has come to this. They have a tough road back to trust and support from the American people, in general. Their (NetanYahoo's) behavior has been shameful.
17
B Thank you for your comment. I hope everyone reads it.
7
Monthly bash Israel column by Roger Cohen. Fact is as long as the Palestinians believe that they are going to eventually extinguish Jewish sovereignty in Israel, they will not negotiate. These kinds of editorials reinforce their intransigence.
88
Wake up and smell the coffee. It's Israel that is slowly committing genocide, with the occasional slaughter in Gaza they call "mowing the grass"
6
Right on with your comment, but you should note, its rather more than monthly...
Usually it comes on when there is a lull in violence from issis or al-quada etc. etc.. than Mr. Cohen writes his usual diatribe...
Usually it comes on when there is a lull in violence from issis or al-quada etc. etc.. than Mr. Cohen writes his usual diatribe...
11
First of all, it's not "Jewish" sovereignty, it is a country, not a "biblical holy land". The Israelis, not the Jews in general, have long tried to extinguish Palesinian sovereignty since it was given the land illegally to put their country where it is now located. So, stop mixing Jews with Israelis, while most Israelis are Jewish, not all Jews are Israeli, they have nothing in common with the atrocities going on, unless of course they donate . . . guilty as charged.
3
Cohen sees this situation as clearly as anyone, and he is to commended for his respect of liberal democratic principles. But it is evident, and has been for decades, that Israel's right-wing will only respond to some kind of pain--such as fines and decreased profits, or radically increased international isolation.
The nature of the problem is well-defined and recognized; what's lacking is the will to confront Likud with real pain and real loss.
The nature of the problem is well-defined and recognized; what's lacking is the will to confront Likud with real pain and real loss.
303
If the clueless like you even made the slightest effort to obtain the facts...
Israel's "rightwing" has only been in power for 2 decades out of 7; people like me are old enough to easily remember that before Likud was ELECTED by Israel - a word unheard of in the arab muslim world LABOR was in power - so what was your juvenile excuse then? Did it ever occur to thoughtless people like you that Israel turned rightward in the 1990s after relentless, insane amounts of terrorism despite multiple peace offers made?
Nah, thinking woud be too hard for you.
Israel's "rightwing" has only been in power for 2 decades out of 7; people like me are old enough to easily remember that before Likud was ELECTED by Israel - a word unheard of in the arab muslim world LABOR was in power - so what was your juvenile excuse then? Did it ever occur to thoughtless people like you that Israel turned rightward in the 1990s after relentless, insane amounts of terrorism despite multiple peace offers made?
Nah, thinking woud be too hard for you.
11
You should attend our MESA (Middle East Studies Association) meetings. Drop by sometime. Listen to the people who study the history of the Middle East as a profession. You are still at the point where you need your opinions informed, not consulted.
3
Bravo for Miss Farooki. Israel needs to go back to its democratic beginnings and Palestinians should acknowledge Partition and abandon policies that have brought them nothing but pain.
59
What policies have they not abandoned? They are totally helpless. Wals built around them, a secret service that keeps track of every move, slowly denied land water electricity and with that, food. The Israelis really want the Palestinians to die. They aren't going anywhere and Israel is considered a pariah state.
7
How easily said! But can it be also done?
About two preceding replies to my comment: The original policy that led to the present situation was the refusal of the Palestinians (and some neighboring countries) to accept the existence of a State of Israel. Anwar Sadat did accept it and for quite a while life for Palestinians and Israelis improved.
3
Image issue? No this is all about policy. Policies that are brutal and illegal don't have image issues.
293
Why are these groups tax free? They are nothing more than more begging from Israel:
U.S. Donors Gave Settlements More Than $220 Million in Tax-exempt Funds Over Five Years
read more: http://www.haaretz.com/settlementdollars/1.689683
U.S. Donors Gave Settlements More Than $220 Million in Tax-exempt Funds Over Five Years
read more: http://www.haaretz.com/settlementdollars/1.689683
193
Donations to AIPAC are not tax deductible.
Donations to Israelis who live in villages in Judea/Samaria are indeed tax deductible - as are donations to Arabs who live in the same areas.
Donations to Israelis who live in villages in Judea/Samaria are indeed tax deductible - as are donations to Arabs who live in the same areas.
Basing political and social policies on religious scripture is a recipe for failure. By picking and choosing which laws, rules, admonitions or requirements to cite when acting to further one's goals and agendas is the epitome of hypocrisy. "Because It is Written," should be replaced with, "Because it is Just". The continuing treatment of people that promotes their festering septic animosity and violence will have no result other than animosity and violence. If policy implementation is based on historic writing and nothing more, that policy should be most carefully reviewed. After all, what is religion, but mythology with legs.
1
Basing political and social policies on religious scripture is a recipe for failure. By picking and choosing which laws, rules, admonitions or requirements to cite when acting to further one's goals and agendas is the epitome of hypocrisy. "Because It is Written," should be replaced with, "Because it is Just". The continuing treatment of people that promotes their festering septic animosity and violence will have no result other than animosity and violence. If policy implementation is based on historic writing and nothing more, that policy should be most carefully reviewed. After all, what is religion, but mythology with legs.
3
What about the Palestinian image issue? Where are the Palestinians clamoring for peace? Instead we see Palestinians cheering the daily murders of innocent Israelis…you leave Palestinian incitement for the end of your editorial. Seriously?
The settler movement doesn’t exist in a vaccuum either. If the Palestinians were serious about peace at any time in the last 30 years, really serious, then there would peaceful coexistence. Palestinian Jews and Palestinian Muslims. Israeli Jews and Israeli Muslims. Two peoples living together in two states.
Why not respond to to the article below: What would happen is Israel unilaterally withdrew from the West Bank? Why not have a discussion about the Palestinian/Arab mindset instead of just bashing Israel?
http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/What-would-happen-if-Israel-withdrew-from-t...
The settler movement doesn’t exist in a vaccuum either. If the Palestinians were serious about peace at any time in the last 30 years, really serious, then there would peaceful coexistence. Palestinian Jews and Palestinian Muslims. Israeli Jews and Israeli Muslims. Two peoples living together in two states.
Why not respond to to the article below: What would happen is Israel unilaterally withdrew from the West Bank? Why not have a discussion about the Palestinian/Arab mindset instead of just bashing Israel?
http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/What-would-happen-if-Israel-withdrew-from-t...
1
What about the Palestinian image issue? Where are the Palestinians clamoring for peace? Instead we see Palestinians cheering the daily murders of innocent Israelis…you leave Palestinian incitement for the end of your editorial. Seriously?
The settler movement doesn’t exist in a vaccuum either. If the Palestinians were serious about peace at any time in the last 30 years, really serious, then there would peaceful coexistence. Palestinian Jews and Palestinian Muslims. Israeli Jews and Israeli Muslims. Two peoples living together in two states.
Why not respond to to the article below: What would happen is Israel unilaterally withdrew from the West Bank? Why not have a discussion about the Palestinian/Arab mindset instead of just bashing Israel?
http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/What-would-happen-if-Israel-withdrew-from-t...
The settler movement doesn’t exist in a vaccuum either. If the Palestinians were serious about peace at any time in the last 30 years, really serious, then there would peaceful coexistence. Palestinian Jews and Palestinian Muslims. Israeli Jews and Israeli Muslims. Two peoples living together in two states.
Why not respond to to the article below: What would happen is Israel unilaterally withdrew from the West Bank? Why not have a discussion about the Palestinian/Arab mindset instead of just bashing Israel?
http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/What-would-happen-if-Israel-withdrew-from-t...
5
The Jerusalem Post is a right wing paper.
2
Thanks for the link. Great article and one everyone should read.
2
As he so often does, Mr. Cohen has written a brave, perceptive and enlightening article. Unfortunately, the tunnel vision sufferers in the Israeli government do not have sufficient light to see the wisdom of Mr. Cohen's insights. So to them I would say the following, which requires no light to understand: The little German dictator with a bizarre resemblance to Charlie Chaplin brought the world only darkness, evil and suffering with one exception: he told the world that no person or state could possibly succeed by alienating all of the existing institutions, and then proved himself correct by ignoring his own insight. That lesson from history can penetrate even the darkest tunnel -- and the "illiberal ministers" in Israel ignore it at their peril.
As he so often does, Mr. Cohen has written a brave, perceptive and enlightening article. Unfortunately, the tunnel vision sufferers in the Israeli government do not have sufficient light to see the wisdom of Mr. Cohen's insights. So to them I would say the following, which requires no light to understand: The little German dictator with a bizarre resemblance to Charlie Chaplin brought the world only darkness, evil and suffering with one exception: he told the world that no person or state could possibly succeed by alienating all of the existing institutions, and then proved himself correct by ignoring his own insight. That lesson from history can penetrate even the darkest tunnel -- and the "illiberal ministers" in Israel ignore it at their peril.
We are finally hearing more in the US press about this unbelievable situation, still fully supported by the United States. While support among US Jews may be declining, it is still strong and often beyond reason. Many US Jews seem to have a knee-jerk reaction when it comes to Israel. No matter what this state does, they cheer it and have seemingly no sympathy for the victims. It is puzzling to watch otherwise decent and rational people behave in this way. What's more, the blind support has allowed Israel to self-destruct before our eyes. I have wondered what US Jews have against the state of Israel; that's how damaging I believe their blank check has been.
1
We are finally hearing more in the US press about this unbelievable situation, still fully supported by the United States. While support among US Jews may be declining, it is still strong and often beyond reason. Many US Jews seem to have a knee-jerk reaction when it comes to Israel. No matter what this state does, they cheer it and have seemingly no sympathy for the victims. It is puzzling to watch otherwise decent and rational people behave in this way. What's more, the blind support has allowed Israel to self-destruct before our eyes. I have wondered what US Jews have against the state of Israel; that's how damaging I believe their blank check has been.
4
It is not just Israel that has a problem. Moslems, funded by Saudi money in the southern Philippines island of Mindinao are driving Christians out of the land and seizing their property. My wife's Christian family was driven off their farm and their fishing boat was seized by Moslems who frequently bomb churches in southern Mindinao. This is a world wide movement to drive out Christians and other faiths funded by the Saudis and the Gulf States.
It is not just Israel that has a problem. Moslems, funded by Saudi money in the southern Philippines island of Mindinao are driving Christians out of the land and seizing their property. My wife's Christian family was driven off their farm and their fishing boat was seized by Moslems who frequently bomb churches in southern Mindinao. This is a world wide movement to drive out Christians and other faiths funded by the Saudis and the Gulf States.
5
It is with great dismay that I observe the increasingly right-wing actions and policies of Mr. Netanyahu which seem to me to be leading Israel down a dangerous path to isolation, a self-imposed ghetto existence, and the end of the dream for Israel of Ben-Gurian, Rabin, and Perez of a democratic Jewish state. In an interview with Fareed Zakaria on CNN last Sunday, Netanyahu referred several times to Israel, a Jewish state, never as a democratic Jewish state. So much for a two-state solution. He is a disaster for Israel.
2
It is with great dismay that I observe the increasingly right-wing actions and policies of Mr. Netanyahu which seem to me to be leading Israel down a dangerous path to isolation, a self-imposed ghetto existence, and the end of the dream for Israel of Ben-Gurian, Rabin, and Perez of a democratic Jewish state. In an interview with Fareed Zakaria on CNN last Sunday, Netanyahu referred several times to Israel, a Jewish state, never as a democratic Jewish state. So much for a two-state solution. He is a disaster for Israel.
171
I am personally concerned far more with the anti-semitic motivations that seem to be shared so universally throughout the world. People are being killed by Palestinians almost daily. There are knife attacks, attacks with cars, and more. And yet Netanyahu is the big problem? In the U.S., Jews are the number one target of religious hate crimes by a 4-5 fold margin over Muslims (check the FBI reports). Jews are reviled and hated throughout Europe and are the targets of worldwide violence.
2
If the Israeli's gave a state to a group resolved for 100 years not to co-exist, they would be suicidal. A two state solution is not going to work until the PA and Hamas start encouraging a non-violent solution. It's not Israel's fault. Blame them all you want. After all, that's an ancient tradition.
2
You said it. I don't know how the good people of that country has let him
get away with his actions for so long and let it come to this. He should
have been kicked out years ago.
get away with his actions for so long and let it come to this. He should
have been kicked out years ago.
Finally , the Jewish community in the U S is seeing the Netanyahu government for what it is and in what direction it is heading . Hopefully the Israelis who elected him and his cohorts will also see the same .It is the only hope for some kind of stability in the region which could lead to an arrangement with the Palestinians . Netanyahu offers nothing and is only interested in extending his time in office. The critique of the Jewish diaspora may be the tipping point for a resolution .
Finally , the Jewish community in the U S is seeing the Netanyahu government for what it is and in what direction it is heading . Hopefully the Israelis who elected him and his cohorts will also see the same .It is the only hope for some kind of stability in the region which could lead to an arrangement with the Palestinians . Netanyahu offers nothing and is only interested in extending his time in office. The critique of the Jewish diaspora may be the tipping point for a resolution .
134
"In March 2015, Mr. Netanyahu was elected to his fourth term as prime minister. Netanyahu has been elected Prime Minister of Israel four times, matching David Ben-Gurion's record. He is the only prime minister in Israel's history to have been elected three times in a row."
Notwithstanding your animus
kushelevitc, most Israelis seem to like him.
Notwithstanding your animus
kushelevitc, most Israelis seem to like him.
4
You only talk for yourself and some liberals.
Americans both Jews and people who are not Jewish and even most liberals fully support Israel and Netanyahu.
The only way you will get peace is for the Palestinians to give up their demand for a right of return and accept that Jerusalem and the area adjacent will remain part of Israel.
You demand Netanyahu offer something.
Granted he should and in fact he has.
What has the other side offered.
Americans both Jews and people who are not Jewish and even most liberals fully support Israel and Netanyahu.
The only way you will get peace is for the Palestinians to give up their demand for a right of return and accept that Jerusalem and the area adjacent will remain part of Israel.
You demand Netanyahu offer something.
Granted he should and in fact he has.
What has the other side offered.
2
To the contrary, I am outraged that Obama sent his lackey Shapiro to lambaste Israel while its facing a pogrom of jihadists stabbing Jews and ramming vehicles into Jews in Israel.
Who in their right mind believes that if Israel withdrew to the 1967 borders today, the Arabs would make peace with Israel tomorrow, or the next day, or the next?
Olmert offered a two state plan to Abbas in 2008 and Abbas turned it down without making any counteroffer. And, that's hardly the first time that has happened. Yet, he's seen in recent Arabic videos praising the jihadists who are stabbing Jews, calling them martyrs who will be rewarded by Allah in heaven, et cetera
Were there jihadists all over Canada threatening to eliminate the United States, with the Prime Minister of Canada encouraging them, the U.S. would take effective action.
Who in their right mind believes that if Israel withdrew to the 1967 borders today, the Arabs would make peace with Israel tomorrow, or the next day, or the next?
Olmert offered a two state plan to Abbas in 2008 and Abbas turned it down without making any counteroffer. And, that's hardly the first time that has happened. Yet, he's seen in recent Arabic videos praising the jihadists who are stabbing Jews, calling them martyrs who will be rewarded by Allah in heaven, et cetera
Were there jihadists all over Canada threatening to eliminate the United States, with the Prime Minister of Canada encouraging them, the U.S. would take effective action.
2
I wonder whether Ambassador Daniel Shapiro is a genetic or spiritual descendant of Leon Uris' Capt. Two-Gun Shapiro? If this were the case, he could call Netanyahu out and settle the insult at ten or more paces.
If Shapiro won, he would risk nothing because of his diplomatic immunity.
If Shapiro won, he would risk nothing because of his diplomatic immunity.
I wonder whether Ambassador Daniel Shapiro is a genetic or spiritual descendant of Leon Uris' Capt. Two-Gun Shapiro? If this were the case, he could call Netanyahu out and settle the insult at ten or more paces.
If Shapiro won, he would risk nothing because of his diplomatic immunity.
If Shapiro won, he would risk nothing because of his diplomatic immunity.
Why are we financing Netanyahu's policies?
1
Why are we financing Netanyahu's policies?
4
AIPAC, Sheldon Adelson, Presidents of Major Jewish Organizations, opportunists, et al.
1
A major contributor to the increased alienation of young American Jews toward Israel is Ron Dermer, the smug, presumptuous ,Israeli Ambassador to the United States, who was born in Miami Beach. His endorsement of Israel's Jim Crow like segregation of the Palestinians, and the exploitation of Palestinian labor in the "occupied"West Bank, have clearly compromised Israel's moral authority.His collusion with House Republicans, enabling Benjamin Netanyahu to speak before Congress in an attempt to discredit President Obama's Iran Nuclear deal, should have resulted in him being declared "persona non grata" by the U.S. Government. Ron Dermer is a bigoted, Zionist ideologue, whose presumptuous meddling in U.S. politics has left an indelible stain on U.S.- Israeli relations, and adversely affected the attitude of young American Jews toward Israel.
1
A major contributor to the increased alienation of young American Jews toward Israel is Ron Dermer, the smug, presumptuous ,Israeli Ambassador to the United States, who was born in Miami Beach. His endorsement of Israel's Jim Crow like segregation of the Palestinians, and the exploitation of Palestinian labor in the "occupied"West Bank, have clearly compromised Israel's moral authority.His collusion with House Republicans, enabling Benjamin Netanyahu to speak before Congress in an attempt to discredit President Obama's Iran Nuclear deal, should have resulted in him being declared "persona non grata" by the U.S. Government. Ron Dermer is a bigoted, Zionist ideologue, whose presumptuous meddling in U.S. politics has left an indelible stain on U.S.- Israeli relations, and adversely affected the attitude of young American Jews toward Israel.
5
Interesting that you would repeat the ambassadors unfortunate turn of phrase in your column. You have consistently been quite negative toward Iraeli policies vis a vis the Palestinians. So it fits your continuing mantra. Israel is wrong. Israel is the perpetrator of a heinous policy of subjugation and unequal treatment of the West Bank Muslim inhabitants, etc.
Well, how would you fix it? Under Sharon the entire Gaza Strip was 'cleansed' of Jews. The infrastructure was left. What was the result? Rockets, infiltration and domination by Iranian backed Hezbollah and Hamas. Wars, skirmishes, kidnapping, and murder. A diversion of donated resources to military and terrorist tunnels into Israel.
Imagine what will occur with total withdrawal of Israeli presence, both military and settlers from the West Bank. It would be like having a belligerent Canada on our northern border and a terrorist enclave in Mexico on our southern tier. How long would America tolerate that? We are even mixing it up in the South China Sea well away from our borders. Anyone remember Viet Nam and Korea., let alone Afghanistan and Iraq x2.
But to be fair, Mr.Cohen, what is your solution? It is always the easy task of columnists, like yourself, to point out problems, but solutions, nowhere to be found.
Finally, the Ambassador was totally out of line making public comment. Ok for dispatches, not Ok in public forum. He could have Clintonized them in personal e mails for all the world to see.
Well, how would you fix it? Under Sharon the entire Gaza Strip was 'cleansed' of Jews. The infrastructure was left. What was the result? Rockets, infiltration and domination by Iranian backed Hezbollah and Hamas. Wars, skirmishes, kidnapping, and murder. A diversion of donated resources to military and terrorist tunnels into Israel.
Imagine what will occur with total withdrawal of Israeli presence, both military and settlers from the West Bank. It would be like having a belligerent Canada on our northern border and a terrorist enclave in Mexico on our southern tier. How long would America tolerate that? We are even mixing it up in the South China Sea well away from our borders. Anyone remember Viet Nam and Korea., let alone Afghanistan and Iraq x2.
But to be fair, Mr.Cohen, what is your solution? It is always the easy task of columnists, like yourself, to point out problems, but solutions, nowhere to be found.
Finally, the Ambassador was totally out of line making public comment. Ok for dispatches, not Ok in public forum. He could have Clintonized them in personal e mails for all the world to see.
1
Interesting that you would repeat the ambassadors unfortunate turn of phrase in your column. You have consistently been quite negative toward Iraeli policies vis a vis the Palestinians. So it fits your continuing mantra. Israel is wrong. Israel is the perpetrator of a heinous policy of subjugation and unequal treatment of the West Bank Muslim inhabitants, etc.
Well, how would you fix it? Under Sharon the entire Gaza Strip was 'cleansed' of Jews. The infrastructure was left. What was the result? Rockets, infiltration and domination by Iranian backed Hezbollah and Hamas. Wars, skirmishes, kidnapping, and murder. A diversion of donated resources to military and terrorist tunnels into Israel.
Imagine what will occur with total withdrawal of Israeli presence, both military and settlers from the West Bank. It would be like having a belligerent Canada on our northern border and a terrorist enclave in Mexico on our southern tier. How long would America tolerate that? We are even mixing it up in the South China Sea well away from our borders. Anyone remember Viet Nam and Korea., let alone Afghanistan and Iraq x2.
But to be fair, Mr.Cohen, what is your solution? It is always the easy task of columnists, like yourself, to point out problems, but solutions, nowhere to be found.
Finally, the Ambassador was totally out of line making public comment. Ok for dispatches, not Ok in public forum. He could have Clintonized them in personal e mails for all the world to see.
Well, how would you fix it? Under Sharon the entire Gaza Strip was 'cleansed' of Jews. The infrastructure was left. What was the result? Rockets, infiltration and domination by Iranian backed Hezbollah and Hamas. Wars, skirmishes, kidnapping, and murder. A diversion of donated resources to military and terrorist tunnels into Israel.
Imagine what will occur with total withdrawal of Israeli presence, both military and settlers from the West Bank. It would be like having a belligerent Canada on our northern border and a terrorist enclave in Mexico on our southern tier. How long would America tolerate that? We are even mixing it up in the South China Sea well away from our borders. Anyone remember Viet Nam and Korea., let alone Afghanistan and Iraq x2.
But to be fair, Mr.Cohen, what is your solution? It is always the easy task of columnists, like yourself, to point out problems, but solutions, nowhere to be found.
Finally, the Ambassador was totally out of line making public comment. Ok for dispatches, not Ok in public forum. He could have Clintonized them in personal e mails for all the world to see.
6
This is nothing more than a rationale for keeping the Palestinian population captive. And, Sharon did not evacuate Gaza because it was a good deed. The situation in Gaza had been untenable. There were 10,000 Jewish settlers occupying 30% of the land while another 10% went to defend the settlers against a Palestinian population of 1.6 million in the rest of Gaza. The cost of remaining became too high. It had nothing to do with giving back land that wasn't theirs to begin with.
3
It is not the American people who support the injustice in Palestine ,it is the AIPAC-controlled Congress & WH. eg. In 2009 when Israel invaded Gaza & killed 1400 people of which 2/3 were women & children, 334 members of Congress signed a letter to Obama to "Go Easy On Israel" while the 192 members of the UN General Assembly voted twice by a margin of 93% to condemn & sanction Israel for this same atrocity. It included destroying 5000 buildings as punishment for objecting to the prison that Israel kept them in. Also it was NOT the Amer. people that voted to donate $4 billion/yr to Israel or to create a special $2 billion/yr US tax loophole for gifts to Israeli "charities" that build illegal settlements on land stolen from the indigenous people of Palestine. The quotes from Congressman Brian Baird “The difficult reality is this: in order to get elected to Congress..you have to raise a lot of money & you learn pretty quickly that, if Aipac is on your side, you can do that.” & John Yarmuth on upholding the interests of the US “We all took an oath of office & Aipac, in many instances, is asking us to ignore it” are reality AIPAC was twice voted as the most feared lobby in DC by the staffs of members of Congress. Pres. Carter wrote that to vote against the wishes of AIPAC was to commit political suicide. The US must change its election campaign funding laws so that AIPAC can no longer game the system & control Congress against the interests of the nation. eg invading Iraq
1
Israel has had over 45 years of complete power over the Palestinians, and has used that power to seize more and more land. At this point, trifling measures such as labeling settlement products or UN condemnations lacking any consequences are woefully insufficient to change Israel's settlement policies. Only cuts in America's military aid would send a message that Israel just might heed.
1
Israel has had over 45 years of complete power over the Palestinians, and has used that power to seize more and more land. At this point, trifling measures such as labeling settlement products or UN condemnations lacking any consequences are woefully insufficient to change Israel's settlement policies. Only cuts in America's military aid would send a message that Israel just might heed.
10
I don't thnk any of this is what Ben Gurion had in mind. Why do the opressed always become opressors? Why do abused children become abusers of children?
1
I don't thnk any of this is what Ben Gurion had in mind. Why do the opressed always become opressors? Why do abused children become abusers of children?
1
While I generally agree with most of the sentiments here, let's not forget that over the past 68 years the Palestinians have had multiple opportunities to agree to a peace deal and forge their own state. Yes, some of these deals were flawed. But when you're in a weak position, as the Palestinians have been, you take what you can get and build from there. Instead, the Palestinians have opted for violent resistance, which of course the Israelis have met with force and with building a wall.
Both sides have made mistakes and share blame for this intractable conflict. Absent true and visionary leadership on either side, the vacuum has been filled by extremists and ideologues for whom compromise is anathema. Palestinians are never going to be able to reclaim their ancestral lands and houses lost or abandoned in 1948. That's just never going to happen, and the sooner the Palestinians accept that reality, the better equipped they'll be accept a two state deal (assuming one ever again is put on the table) that's not perfect.
Israelis, meanwhile, should either officially annex the West Bank and provide all Palestinians there with full rights as Israeli citizens, or pull out the most extreme and far flung settlers and work toward a viable two-state peace deal. Even though truly handing the West Bank over to the Palestinians could very well result in another Hamas stronghold, this option is still worth trying.
Yet I suspect that nothing much will change any time soon.
Both sides have made mistakes and share blame for this intractable conflict. Absent true and visionary leadership on either side, the vacuum has been filled by extremists and ideologues for whom compromise is anathema. Palestinians are never going to be able to reclaim their ancestral lands and houses lost or abandoned in 1948. That's just never going to happen, and the sooner the Palestinians accept that reality, the better equipped they'll be accept a two state deal (assuming one ever again is put on the table) that's not perfect.
Israelis, meanwhile, should either officially annex the West Bank and provide all Palestinians there with full rights as Israeli citizens, or pull out the most extreme and far flung settlers and work toward a viable two-state peace deal. Even though truly handing the West Bank over to the Palestinians could very well result in another Hamas stronghold, this option is still worth trying.
Yet I suspect that nothing much will change any time soon.
While I generally agree with most of the sentiments here, let's not forget that over the past 68 years the Palestinians have had multiple opportunities to agree to a peace deal and forge their own state. Yes, some of these deals were flawed. But when you're in a weak position, as the Palestinians have been, you take what you can get and build from there. Instead, the Palestinians have opted for violent resistance, which of course the Israelis have met with force and with building a wall.
Both sides have made mistakes and share blame for this intractable conflict. Absent true and visionary leadership on either side, the vacuum has been filled by extremists and ideologues for whom compromise is anathema. Palestinians are never going to be able to reclaim their ancestral lands and houses lost or abandoned in 1948. That's just never going to happen, and the sooner the Palestinians accept that reality, the better equipped they'll be accept a two state deal (assuming one ever again is put on the table) that's not perfect.
Israelis, meanwhile, should either officially annex the West Bank and provide all Palestinians there with full rights as Israeli citizens, or pull out the most extreme and far flung settlers and work toward a viable two-state peace deal. Even though truly handing the West Bank over to the Palestinians could very well result in another Hamas stronghold, this option is still worth trying.
Yet I suspect that nothing much will change any time soon.
Both sides have made mistakes and share blame for this intractable conflict. Absent true and visionary leadership on either side, the vacuum has been filled by extremists and ideologues for whom compromise is anathema. Palestinians are never going to be able to reclaim their ancestral lands and houses lost or abandoned in 1948. That's just never going to happen, and the sooner the Palestinians accept that reality, the better equipped they'll be accept a two state deal (assuming one ever again is put on the table) that's not perfect.
Israelis, meanwhile, should either officially annex the West Bank and provide all Palestinians there with full rights as Israeli citizens, or pull out the most extreme and far flung settlers and work toward a viable two-state peace deal. Even though truly handing the West Bank over to the Palestinians could very well result in another Hamas stronghold, this option is still worth trying.
Yet I suspect that nothing much will change any time soon.
3
Those who support Israel must ask a basic question -- what is the real threat to Israel's survival? Is it stone-throwinig (and yes, today knife-wielding and sometimes worse) Palestinians or is it messianic nationalist Israelis who are pushing for an ultra-orthodox society walled off from the rest of the world. Radical settlers disregard the law (as have many Israeli governments as they shoveled money to them that was earmarked for education and even the IDF), and they now think the law is inapplicable to them. Not a formula for long-term survival, as Jewish history has proven time and again.
1
Those who support Israel must ask a basic question -- what is the real threat to Israel's survival? Is it stone-throwinig (and yes, today knife-wielding and sometimes worse) Palestinians or is it messianic nationalist Israelis who are pushing for an ultra-orthodox society walled off from the rest of the world. Radical settlers disregard the law (as have many Israeli governments as they shoveled money to them that was earmarked for education and even the IDF), and they now think the law is inapplicable to them. Not a formula for long-term survival, as Jewish history has proven time and again.
3
"...Palestinian leaders also have a responsibility to curb that hate — to cease incitement, hold elections, overcome divisions and abandon their sterile retreat into victimhood. "
You're darned tootin'! Start with that. Also, get your history straight. The term “West Bank,” which only came about as a result of Jordan's imperialist effort to expand its borders at the cost of the Jewish State, is only as old as the State of Israel. Before the Jordanian invasion, this region was always called Judea and Samaria.
Now, even more to the point, In 1947 the UN General Assembly recommended that the area that became the West Bank become part of a future Arab state, but this proposal was opposed by the Arab states at the time. In 1967, Israel captured the West Bank from Jordan in the Six-Day War - A war classified as an anticipatory attack for self defense by Israel because of the constant threats and intimidations of its Arab "neighbors". Israel won that war, and afterwards magnanimously gave back much of the land captured all the way to the Suez and beyond. The land kept has been used as a defensive perimeter ever since. When will the Arabs start a true peace process?
You're darned tootin'! Start with that. Also, get your history straight. The term “West Bank,” which only came about as a result of Jordan's imperialist effort to expand its borders at the cost of the Jewish State, is only as old as the State of Israel. Before the Jordanian invasion, this region was always called Judea and Samaria.
Now, even more to the point, In 1947 the UN General Assembly recommended that the area that became the West Bank become part of a future Arab state, but this proposal was opposed by the Arab states at the time. In 1967, Israel captured the West Bank from Jordan in the Six-Day War - A war classified as an anticipatory attack for self defense by Israel because of the constant threats and intimidations of its Arab "neighbors". Israel won that war, and afterwards magnanimously gave back much of the land captured all the way to the Suez and beyond. The land kept has been used as a defensive perimeter ever since. When will the Arabs start a true peace process?
1
"...Palestinian leaders also have a responsibility to curb that hate — to cease incitement, hold elections, overcome divisions and abandon their sterile retreat into victimhood. "
You're darned tootin'! Start with that. Also, get your history straight. The term “West Bank,” which only came about as a result of Jordan's imperialist effort to expand its borders at the cost of the Jewish State, is only as old as the State of Israel. Before the Jordanian invasion, this region was always called Judea and Samaria.
Now, even more to the point, In 1947 the UN General Assembly recommended that the area that became the West Bank become part of a future Arab state, but this proposal was opposed by the Arab states at the time. In 1967, Israel captured the West Bank from Jordan in the Six-Day War - A war classified as an anticipatory attack for self defense by Israel because of the constant threats and intimidations of its Arab "neighbors". Israel won that war, and afterwards magnanimously gave back much of the land captured all the way to the Suez and beyond. The land kept has been used as a defensive perimeter ever since. When will the Arabs start a true peace process?
You're darned tootin'! Start with that. Also, get your history straight. The term “West Bank,” which only came about as a result of Jordan's imperialist effort to expand its borders at the cost of the Jewish State, is only as old as the State of Israel. Before the Jordanian invasion, this region was always called Judea and Samaria.
Now, even more to the point, In 1947 the UN General Assembly recommended that the area that became the West Bank become part of a future Arab state, but this proposal was opposed by the Arab states at the time. In 1967, Israel captured the West Bank from Jordan in the Six-Day War - A war classified as an anticipatory attack for self defense by Israel because of the constant threats and intimidations of its Arab "neighbors". Israel won that war, and afterwards magnanimously gave back much of the land captured all the way to the Suez and beyond. The land kept has been used as a defensive perimeter ever since. When will the Arabs start a true peace process?
5
I have posted the following comment many times:
I am a 77 year old Jew. My family was involved in the founding of the State of Israel. I have been an unqualified supporter of the State of Israel for 65 years. That said, I believe that every settlement outside the Green Line is bad for Israel. This includes the large ones like Ariel. Israel exits because of the support of the US government and world Jewry. The blatant immorality of the settlements undermines this support and, in addition, saps the moral fiber of the rational (non fundamentalist) portion of the population.
I believe that a two state solution is impossible because the Palestinians are a rabble—they cannot form a state. There is plenty of evidence for this view. The Palestinians have never had a institution which can perform a basic function of government which is to enforce its own laws.
Because of these two beliefs I believe that Israel should withdraw completely to the Green Line (with a special status for Jerusalem) and build a lethal wall along the Green Line and forget the West Bank . Let the Palestinians kill themselves if they want to.
I am a 77 year old Jew. My family was involved in the founding of the State of Israel. I have been an unqualified supporter of the State of Israel for 65 years. That said, I believe that every settlement outside the Green Line is bad for Israel. This includes the large ones like Ariel. Israel exits because of the support of the US government and world Jewry. The blatant immorality of the settlements undermines this support and, in addition, saps the moral fiber of the rational (non fundamentalist) portion of the population.
I believe that a two state solution is impossible because the Palestinians are a rabble—they cannot form a state. There is plenty of evidence for this view. The Palestinians have never had a institution which can perform a basic function of government which is to enforce its own laws.
Because of these two beliefs I believe that Israel should withdraw completely to the Green Line (with a special status for Jerusalem) and build a lethal wall along the Green Line and forget the West Bank . Let the Palestinians kill themselves if they want to.
I have posted the following comment many times:
I am a 77 year old Jew. My family was involved in the founding of the State of Israel. I have been an unqualified supporter of the State of Israel for 65 years. That said, I believe that every settlement outside the Green Line is bad for Israel. This includes the large ones like Ariel. Israel exits because of the support of the US government and world Jewry. The blatant immorality of the settlements undermines this support and, in addition, saps the moral fiber of the rational (non fundamentalist) portion of the population.
I believe that a two state solution is impossible because the Palestinians are a rabble—they cannot form a state. There is plenty of evidence for this view. The Palestinians have never had a institution which can perform a basic function of government which is to enforce its own laws.
Because of these two beliefs I believe that Israel should withdraw completely to the Green Line (with a special status for Jerusalem) and build a lethal wall along the Green Line and forget the West Bank . Let the Palestinians kill themselves if they want to.
I am a 77 year old Jew. My family was involved in the founding of the State of Israel. I have been an unqualified supporter of the State of Israel for 65 years. That said, I believe that every settlement outside the Green Line is bad for Israel. This includes the large ones like Ariel. Israel exits because of the support of the US government and world Jewry. The blatant immorality of the settlements undermines this support and, in addition, saps the moral fiber of the rational (non fundamentalist) portion of the population.
I believe that a two state solution is impossible because the Palestinians are a rabble—they cannot form a state. There is plenty of evidence for this view. The Palestinians have never had a institution which can perform a basic function of government which is to enforce its own laws.
Because of these two beliefs I believe that Israel should withdraw completely to the Green Line (with a special status for Jerusalem) and build a lethal wall along the Green Line and forget the West Bank . Let the Palestinians kill themselves if they want to.
5
What about the old city.
That is and will always be part of Israel.
That is and will always be part of Israel.
3
Yes, and let that wall follow the Green Line as it passes through Jerusalem. At a time when Jewish extremists are burning churches in Israel I favor holy Christian sites in Jerusalem to be in a Palestinian state--as do Palestinian Christians.
2
I thought I could get through a week without reading a Roger Cohen column bashing Israel. But, sure enough, its Thursday and here it is.
There are so many things missing, out of context or just plain wrong in this column that I would run out of space commenting on all of them. So I will limit myself to two comments.
Cohen and "progressives" like him constantly beat the drums that support for Israel is fading in the US because of Netanyahu and the settlements, but they never present any survey data, just anecdotal comments. Well, below is the most recent Gallup poll I could find (Feb 2015) that shows 70% of Americans continue to view Israel favorably (which is about the same level that polls have shown for decades).
www.gallup.com/poll/181652/seven-americans-continue-view-israel-favorabl...
And a few days ago two Palestinians with knives murdered a 23 year old Jewish woman and injured a 58 year old woman, before they were shot and killed by security guards. According to the NY Times article, the Palestinian media described this event as the unprovoked killing of two Palestinians by "occupation forces", with no mention of the knife attacks and murder of the Jewish woman (and this is not a unique occurrence, but typical of the way the Palestinian/Arab media operate).
There are so many things missing, out of context or just plain wrong in this column that I would run out of space commenting on all of them. So I will limit myself to two comments.
Cohen and "progressives" like him constantly beat the drums that support for Israel is fading in the US because of Netanyahu and the settlements, but they never present any survey data, just anecdotal comments. Well, below is the most recent Gallup poll I could find (Feb 2015) that shows 70% of Americans continue to view Israel favorably (which is about the same level that polls have shown for decades).
www.gallup.com/poll/181652/seven-americans-continue-view-israel-favorabl...
And a few days ago two Palestinians with knives murdered a 23 year old Jewish woman and injured a 58 year old woman, before they were shot and killed by security guards. According to the NY Times article, the Palestinian media described this event as the unprovoked killing of two Palestinians by "occupation forces", with no mention of the knife attacks and murder of the Jewish woman (and this is not a unique occurrence, but typical of the way the Palestinian/Arab media operate).
1
I thought I could get through a week without reading a Roger Cohen column bashing Israel. But, sure enough, its Thursday and here it is.
There are so many things missing, out of context or just plain wrong in this column that I would run out of space commenting on all of them. So I will limit myself to two comments.
Cohen and "progressives" like him constantly beat the drums that support for Israel is fading in the US because of Netanyahu and the settlements, but they never present any survey data, just anecdotal comments. Well, below is the most recent Gallup poll I could find (Feb 2015) that shows 70% of Americans continue to view Israel favorably (which is about the same level that polls have shown for decades).
www.gallup.com/poll/181652/seven-americans-continue-view-israel-favorabl...
And a few days ago two Palestinians with knives murdered a 23 year old Jewish woman and injured a 58 year old woman, before they were shot and killed by security guards. According to the NY Times article, the Palestinian media described this event as the unprovoked killing of two Palestinians by "occupation forces", with no mention of the knife attacks and murder of the Jewish woman (and this is not a unique occurrence, but typical of the way the Palestinian/Arab media operate).
There are so many things missing, out of context or just plain wrong in this column that I would run out of space commenting on all of them. So I will limit myself to two comments.
Cohen and "progressives" like him constantly beat the drums that support for Israel is fading in the US because of Netanyahu and the settlements, but they never present any survey data, just anecdotal comments. Well, below is the most recent Gallup poll I could find (Feb 2015) that shows 70% of Americans continue to view Israel favorably (which is about the same level that polls have shown for decades).
www.gallup.com/poll/181652/seven-americans-continue-view-israel-favorabl...
And a few days ago two Palestinians with knives murdered a 23 year old Jewish woman and injured a 58 year old woman, before they were shot and killed by security guards. According to the NY Times article, the Palestinian media described this event as the unprovoked killing of two Palestinians by "occupation forces", with no mention of the knife attacks and murder of the Jewish woman (and this is not a unique occurrence, but typical of the way the Palestinian/Arab media operate).
7
Many thanks for introducing your readers to Amna Farooqi, Mr Cohen. She sounds like a real leader for the not too distant future. Meanwhile, she should know that even many older Jews also believe what is happening in the West Bank is absolutely intolerable and that if it were happening anywhere else in the world America would long ago have run out of patience.
1
Many thanks for introducing your readers to Amna Farooqi, Mr Cohen. She sounds like a real leader for the not too distant future. Meanwhile, she should know that even many older Jews also believe what is happening in the West Bank is absolutely intolerable and that if it were happening anywhere else in the world America would long ago have run out of patience.
4
The word "occupation" has been repeated so often that it's accuracy is no longer doubted. It is difficult for an Israeli to think of the Jewish presence on the West Bank as an "occupation". The attachment to this land is ancient and actual- more fundemental than the attachment to the city of Ashdod, a Philistine stronghold in ancient times.
I suggest that the misguided slogans, "occupation" and "two state solution" be struck from the rhetoric, and be replaced by a drafonic but workable policy of transfer.
I suggest that the misguided slogans, "occupation" and "two state solution" be struck from the rhetoric, and be replaced by a drafonic but workable policy of transfer.
1
The word "occupation" has been repeated so often that it's accuracy is no longer doubted. It is difficult for an Israeli to think of the Jewish presence on the West Bank as an "occupation". The attachment to this land is ancient and actual- more fundemental than the attachment to the city of Ashdod, a Philistine stronghold in ancient times.
I suggest that the misguided slogans, "occupation" and "two state solution" be struck from the rhetoric, and be replaced by a drafonic but workable policy of transfer.
I suggest that the misguided slogans, "occupation" and "two state solution" be struck from the rhetoric, and be replaced by a drafonic but workable policy of transfer.
4
By "transfer" you mean the expulsion of the indigenous Palestinian population from Israel-Palestine. That is an extreme position that the rest of the world will not allow.
3
Yes! Thank you Roger Cohen. It was great to read about Amna Farooqi.
1
Yes! Thank you Roger Cohen. It was great to read about Amna Farooqi.
1
For a Jew to call a fellow Jew a "little Jew boy" is reprehensible and beneath contempt.
It's worse than an African-American hurling the "N" word at a fellow African-American as African-Americans, through the long years of discrimination and terrorism against them have co-opted the word to dull its sharp edges.
For Jews, "Jew boy" is a sanitized insult less hurtful than, say, the 'K" word, but still nauseating, especially when said by a Jew to another Jew and emblematic of the political divide in Israel between the hard, religious, ethnocentric, nationalist, far-right and the center progressive left who see a two-state solution as the only viable alternative to the future of Israel.
It's worse than an African-American hurling the "N" word at a fellow African-American as African-Americans, through the long years of discrimination and terrorism against them have co-opted the word to dull its sharp edges.
For Jews, "Jew boy" is a sanitized insult less hurtful than, say, the 'K" word, but still nauseating, especially when said by a Jew to another Jew and emblematic of the political divide in Israel between the hard, religious, ethnocentric, nationalist, far-right and the center progressive left who see a two-state solution as the only viable alternative to the future of Israel.
1
For a Jew to call a fellow Jew a "little Jew boy" is reprehensible and beneath contempt.
It's worse than an African-American hurling the "N" word at a fellow African-American as African-Americans, through the long years of discrimination and terrorism against them have co-opted the word to dull its sharp edges.
For Jews, "Jew boy" is a sanitized insult less hurtful than, say, the 'K" word, but still nauseating, especially when said by a Jew to another Jew and emblematic of the political divide in Israel between the hard, religious, ethnocentric, nationalist, far-right and the center progressive left who see a two-state solution as the only viable alternative to the future of Israel.
It's worse than an African-American hurling the "N" word at a fellow African-American as African-Americans, through the long years of discrimination and terrorism against them have co-opted the word to dull its sharp edges.
For Jews, "Jew boy" is a sanitized insult less hurtful than, say, the 'K" word, but still nauseating, especially when said by a Jew to another Jew and emblematic of the political divide in Israel between the hard, religious, ethnocentric, nationalist, far-right and the center progressive left who see a two-state solution as the only viable alternative to the future of Israel.
150
I am not sure why you find THIS what you want to talk about. What about the hundreds of Jews in Israel that are getting killed by Palestinian terror attacks that have been barely reported in the past year. Isn't that reprehensible? Calling someone a "Jew boy" is quite small in comparison.
3
The information in the brain of the interpreter. If you choose to be offended by sound wave, fine. But making it a point is just laughable.
A point invariably made by those who see any criticism of Israel as a dagger blow to the Jewish people is that Israel is a democracy, and that fact alone merits unconditional US support. This point has merit in direct comparisons of Israel with other Mideast countries, but it ignores the fact that the US's European allies are also democracies, which - rightfully in my opinion - consider the settlements not only an obstacle to a peace settlement, but also an affront to civilized values. So either one accepts the ridiculous, but highly self-serving, Likud charge that western Europe is a hotbed of anti-Semitism, or else one asks why and how are Israel's democratic credentials supposed to be superior to those of western Europe.
1
A point invariably made by those who see any criticism of Israel as a dagger blow to the Jewish people is that Israel is a democracy, and that fact alone merits unconditional US support. This point has merit in direct comparisons of Israel with other Mideast countries, but it ignores the fact that the US's European allies are also democracies, which - rightfully in my opinion - consider the settlements not only an obstacle to a peace settlement, but also an affront to civilized values. So either one accepts the ridiculous, but highly self-serving, Likud charge that western Europe is a hotbed of anti-Semitism, or else one asks why and how are Israel's democratic credentials supposed to be superior to those of western Europe.
2
Your article fails to address the most fundamental issue plaguing the "relationship" between Israelis and Palestinians, to wit, the recognition of the right of the Jews to have their own State. The indigenous peoples who have lived in the Middle East have not and will never recognize a Jewish homeland, have attacked the Jews for as long as recorded history will attest and will continue to for as long as they are able. For their to be any peace the Palestinians as well as their benefactors will have to realize that Israel is here to stay and that "you get more with honey than you do th vinegar".
1
Your article fails to address the most fundamental issue plaguing the "relationship" between Israelis and Palestinians, to wit, the recognition of the right of the Jews to have their own State. The indigenous peoples who have lived in the Middle East have not and will never recognize a Jewish homeland, have attacked the Jews for as long as recorded history will attest and will continue to for as long as they are able. For their to be any peace the Palestinians as well as their benefactors will have to realize that Israel is here to stay and that "you get more with honey than you do th vinegar".
7
Young people who think being pro-Palestinian is progressive are merely showing their atrociously incompetent grasp of the situation. In the current state of Palestinian politics, pro-Palestinian necessarily means pro-Hamas, and Hamas is a movement for genocidal theocracy. One can't get much more right-wing than supporting an organization that wants to turn Israel into another Middle Eastern theocracy in the style of Saudi Arabia, Iran and ISIS.
It would be laughable to hear self-styled "progressive" college students proclaiming that their progressive values compel them to support Hamas, if it weren't for the fact that Israeli citizens pay such a high price for this kind of colossally narcissistic ignorance.
It would be laughable to hear self-styled "progressive" college students proclaiming that their progressive values compel them to support Hamas, if it weren't for the fact that Israeli citizens pay such a high price for this kind of colossally narcissistic ignorance.
1
Young people who think being pro-Palestinian is progressive are merely showing their atrociously incompetent grasp of the situation. In the current state of Palestinian politics, pro-Palestinian necessarily means pro-Hamas, and Hamas is a movement for genocidal theocracy. One can't get much more right-wing than supporting an organization that wants to turn Israel into another Middle Eastern theocracy in the style of Saudi Arabia, Iran and ISIS.
It would be laughable to hear self-styled "progressive" college students proclaiming that their progressive values compel them to support Hamas, if it weren't for the fact that Israeli citizens pay such a high price for this kind of colossally narcissistic ignorance.
It would be laughable to hear self-styled "progressive" college students proclaiming that their progressive values compel them to support Hamas, if it weren't for the fact that Israeli citizens pay such a high price for this kind of colossally narcissistic ignorance.
5
So true. You will not meet a young person who supports the BDS movement, who knows a lick about the region, it's history, the peace agreements rejected by the Palestinians, the wars and attacks against Israel, the 50 or so Muslim countries, nor the minuscule size of the one Jewish state, Israel. All they know is what they read on Facebook.
3
J Street has little credibility with the American Jewish mainstream. The fact that they've chosen an avowedly pro-Palestinian Muslim to lead their campus operation speaks volumes. How can there be meaningful discourse in universities if only the most left-wing views are represented?
J Street is pro-Isreal in name only. Their policy stance is identical to that of every non-violent Palestinian rights organization. That is their right, but when journalists are seeking balanced comments they shouldn't be fooled into thinking they're hearing consensus American Jewish voices on that particular one-way street.
J Street is pro-Isreal in name only. Their policy stance is identical to that of every non-violent Palestinian rights organization. That is their right, but when journalists are seeking balanced comments they shouldn't be fooled into thinking they're hearing consensus American Jewish voices on that particular one-way street.
1
J Street has little credibility with the American Jewish mainstream. The fact that they've chosen an avowedly pro-Palestinian Muslim to lead their campus operation speaks volumes. How can there be meaningful discourse in universities if only the most left-wing views are represented?
J Street is pro-Isreal in name only. Their policy stance is identical to that of every non-violent Palestinian rights organization. That is their right, but when journalists are seeking balanced comments they shouldn't be fooled into thinking they're hearing consensus American Jewish voices on that particular one-way street.
J Street is pro-Isreal in name only. Their policy stance is identical to that of every non-violent Palestinian rights organization. That is their right, but when journalists are seeking balanced comments they shouldn't be fooled into thinking they're hearing consensus American Jewish voices on that particular one-way street.
6
AIPAC and other major Jewish organizations are firmly behind the right wing movement which has become center stage in Israel.
1
By implication, you seem to suggest that AIPAC represents the mainstream. I think, at this point, it represents older, more conservative Jews. I wouldn't say that J Street represents a majority; rather, that many American Jews, especially younger ones, are alienated from Israel and no more align themselves with AIPAC or J Street than Italian-Americans pick an Italian political party.
Why do you say right wing as it's something to be ashamed of.
I'm a right winger and I am proud of it.
I'm a right winger and I am proud of it.
Israel is a theocracy, albeit one where the leaders are elected by the chosen of the true faith on a periodic basis. The same type of conformity expected by the Sunnis and Shiites who also believe they are the chosen of god.
Israeli laws may be secular as written, but their enforcement is decidedly to ensure that Israel and its conquered territories remain Jewish. Netanyahu has no intent whatsoever of ending the settlement building and he has demonstrated his personal contempt for American leaders who have called him on this. He's done more to poison the well with America than any single Israeli individual. Ever.
Theocracies, of which Israel is a de facto state if not a de jure government, just are not conducive to modern value systems. Americans have begun to see beyond the AIPAC propaganda and the right wing echo chambers and no longer are willing to overlook Israeli contempt for American government efforts to support a two state solution for Israel and the Palestinians.
Israeli laws may be secular as written, but their enforcement is decidedly to ensure that Israel and its conquered territories remain Jewish. Netanyahu has no intent whatsoever of ending the settlement building and he has demonstrated his personal contempt for American leaders who have called him on this. He's done more to poison the well with America than any single Israeli individual. Ever.
Theocracies, of which Israel is a de facto state if not a de jure government, just are not conducive to modern value systems. Americans have begun to see beyond the AIPAC propaganda and the right wing echo chambers and no longer are willing to overlook Israeli contempt for American government efforts to support a two state solution for Israel and the Palestinians.
1
Israel is a theocracy, albeit one where the leaders are elected by the chosen of the true faith on a periodic basis. The same type of conformity expected by the Sunnis and Shiites who also believe they are the chosen of god.
Israeli laws may be secular as written, but their enforcement is decidedly to ensure that Israel and its conquered territories remain Jewish. Netanyahu has no intent whatsoever of ending the settlement building and he has demonstrated his personal contempt for American leaders who have called him on this. He's done more to poison the well with America than any single Israeli individual. Ever.
Theocracies, of which Israel is a de facto state if not a de jure government, just are not conducive to modern value systems. Americans have begun to see beyond the AIPAC propaganda and the right wing echo chambers and no longer are willing to overlook Israeli contempt for American government efforts to support a two state solution for Israel and the Palestinians.
Israeli laws may be secular as written, but their enforcement is decidedly to ensure that Israel and its conquered territories remain Jewish. Netanyahu has no intent whatsoever of ending the settlement building and he has demonstrated his personal contempt for American leaders who have called him on this. He's done more to poison the well with America than any single Israeli individual. Ever.
Theocracies, of which Israel is a de facto state if not a de jure government, just are not conducive to modern value systems. Americans have begun to see beyond the AIPAC propaganda and the right wing echo chambers and no longer are willing to overlook Israeli contempt for American government efforts to support a two state solution for Israel and the Palestinians.
9
How is it "Occupation"? Jews have lived on the "West Bank" for 3,000 years, but more recently during the British Mandate period. Jews were forced out of the Hebron area by Arab riots in the 20's and 30's, and of course during the Jordanian "Occupation" of the West Bank following the 1948 War. No one seems concerned that Jordan "Occupied" the Palestinian State set up the British. Jews and Arabs have the right to live in the West Bank. Should Arabs be forced to leave Haifa and Akko? Of course not. Your twisting of historical fact feeds the vicious boycott Israel movements that are fed by Anti-Semitic Arab leaders who want to eliminate the State of Israel. Israel has already turned Gaza over to the Palestinians and we know how well that turned out. As a liberal who supports a Palestinian State in Gaza and parts of the West Bank I am distressed that the NY Times has become this anti-semitic mouth piece where Jewish lives really have no value.
1
How is it "Occupation"? Jews have lived on the "West Bank" for 3,000 years, but more recently during the British Mandate period. Jews were forced out of the Hebron area by Arab riots in the 20's and 30's, and of course during the Jordanian "Occupation" of the West Bank following the 1948 War. No one seems concerned that Jordan "Occupied" the Palestinian State set up the British. Jews and Arabs have the right to live in the West Bank. Should Arabs be forced to leave Haifa and Akko? Of course not. Your twisting of historical fact feeds the vicious boycott Israel movements that are fed by Anti-Semitic Arab leaders who want to eliminate the State of Israel. Israel has already turned Gaza over to the Palestinians and we know how well that turned out. As a liberal who supports a Palestinian State in Gaza and parts of the West Bank I am distressed that the NY Times has become this anti-semitic mouth piece where Jewish lives really have no value.
6
Palestinians in Gaza have neither water rights or air rights over their territory. They have no port.
No one was bothered when Jordan annexed the West Bank because Jordan did not engage in land and water confiscation. They allowed residents to move freely within the West Bank and East Jerusalem. Further, if you read Benny Morris he states that the Zionist forces had an agreement with King Abdullah of Jordan to partition Palestine.
No one was bothered when Jordan annexed the West Bank because Jordan did not engage in land and water confiscation. They allowed residents to move freely within the West Bank and East Jerusalem. Further, if you read Benny Morris he states that the Zionist forces had an agreement with King Abdullah of Jordan to partition Palestine.
2
Gaza voted for Hamas who have a charter stating they want to kill Jews.
Even with the above Israel has helped the people of Gaza to get water.
They would have helped more if Hamas with there charter had not been put in power.
You are wrong .
Jordan is the area that was designated as the Palestinian homeland
and the people you say were free to travel within the west bank and Jerusalem were not allowed there.
The reason people did not complain when Jordan occupied this land is because Jordan didn't give them the choice.
Even with the above Israel has helped the people of Gaza to get water.
They would have helped more if Hamas with there charter had not been put in power.
You are wrong .
Jordan is the area that was designated as the Palestinian homeland
and the people you say were free to travel within the west bank and Jerusalem were not allowed there.
The reason people did not complain when Jordan occupied this land is because Jordan didn't give them the choice.
2
When I was working for a federal agency in the mid-west in the late 70's, a new boss who came up from Atlanta told everyone that I was "his jew boy." When I tell the story now, people still gasp. I am ashamed that this could be the mind-set of the present Israeli administration. How "self-hatingly" low can you go?
When I was working for a federal agency in the mid-west in the late 70's, a new boss who came up from Atlanta told everyone that I was "his jew boy." When I tell the story now, people still gasp. I am ashamed that this could be the mind-set of the present Israeli administration. How "self-hatingly" low can you go?
1
You’re missing the point, Roger. The key has always been in the Palestinian hand. Come to the table without pre-conditions and let's negotiate. Israel has always acknowledged the right of Palestinians to have a land of their own, with details to be worked out in negotiations. It is the Palestinians who refuse to acknowledge the right of Jews to have a land of their own in the Middle East. Israel completely withdrew from Gaza with no pre-conditions. In response Hamas took over and began shooting missiles at Israel. Only fools think “Death To Israel” is not a mortal threat.
1
You’re missing the point, Roger. The key has always been in the Palestinian hand. Come to the table without pre-conditions and let's negotiate. Israel has always acknowledged the right of Palestinians to have a land of their own, with details to be worked out in negotiations. It is the Palestinians who refuse to acknowledge the right of Jews to have a land of their own in the Middle East. Israel completely withdrew from Gaza with no pre-conditions. In response Hamas took over and began shooting missiles at Israel. Only fools think “Death To Israel” is not a mortal threat.
100
No, Mel, YOU are missing the point. Israel has a right to exist - but NOT at the expense of the Palestinians by Israel's continuous stealing of Palestininan lands.
Sighing any "peace agreement" that is based on having to agree to the stealing of one's land is signing a suicide document. You refuse to see that.
Sighing any "peace agreement" that is based on having to agree to the stealing of one's land is signing a suicide document. You refuse to see that.
2
" Israel has always acknowledged the right of Palestinians to have a land of their own, with details to be worked out in negotiations."
Since when? Even to Oslo Accords, which never spelled out a Palestinian state, was rejected by Netanyahu. Look at a map of Israel-Palestine and see who is denying who a state of their own. The West Bank and Gaza represent 22% of British Palestine. Yet that is even vanishing with the construction of Jewish settlements.
Since when? Even to Oslo Accords, which never spelled out a Palestinian state, was rejected by Netanyahu. Look at a map of Israel-Palestine and see who is denying who a state of their own. The West Bank and Gaza represent 22% of British Palestine. Yet that is even vanishing with the construction of Jewish settlements.
4
So is Israel willing to give up all the land that it has stolen from the Palestinians and allowed for settlers to build on? Or is that a pre-condition?
2
The truth is that Israel is not and never has been a democracy. Israel, by definition is a racist, apartheid theocracy. And as to "victimhood", Mr. Cohen, the Palestinians, by any definition are truly victims!
The truth is that Israel is not and never has been a democracy. Israel, by definition is a racist, apartheid theocracy. And as to "victimhood", Mr. Cohen, the Palestinians, by any definition are truly victims!
10
Victims of their own government.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/world/2016/01/12/gaza-journalist-says-w...
https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/world/2016/01/12/gaza-journalist-says-w...
4
SIDEBAR:
IT IS UNBELIEVABLE TO ME HOW THE LEFT CONCENTRATES . . .
...on the so labeled misdeeds of Israel which is the only Western style democracy and free market state in the entire Middle East. So, if a child, man or woman is knifed or killed, devotes of the pro-Palestinians cry out for retribution towards the Zionist state.
In the meantime, over 99% of Muslims are arrested, tortured and brutally killed by other Muslims due to their so-called incorrect interpretation of Islam or just plain Seventh Century interpretation of this tribal religion.
Most Jews have had to leave the Muslim nations in the Middle East due to legitimate fear of death. As the mantra of the Islamist is "death to Israel" and "throw them into the sea" as they deny the Holocaust.
While Arabs in Israel enjoy being active members of Israel and have members in the Knesset.
Mr. Cohen, the human condition is flawed. But some groups are more flawed that others. I posit that this is just a millennia long remnant of anti-Semitism which is covered by the faux rubric of just left wing idealism.
Anti Jewish rhetoric is so powerful because the criticisms of it are so ambiguous and vague. And the probability of it continuing is a function of how long it has existed all over the world ... even in nations and societies with few Jews present.
A total outrage which will probably continue until the flawed condition of humanity destroys the viability of life on Earth ... which is more than possible.
IT IS UNBELIEVABLE TO ME HOW THE LEFT CONCENTRATES . . .
...on the so labeled misdeeds of Israel which is the only Western style democracy and free market state in the entire Middle East. So, if a child, man or woman is knifed or killed, devotes of the pro-Palestinians cry out for retribution towards the Zionist state.
In the meantime, over 99% of Muslims are arrested, tortured and brutally killed by other Muslims due to their so-called incorrect interpretation of Islam or just plain Seventh Century interpretation of this tribal religion.
Most Jews have had to leave the Muslim nations in the Middle East due to legitimate fear of death. As the mantra of the Islamist is "death to Israel" and "throw them into the sea" as they deny the Holocaust.
While Arabs in Israel enjoy being active members of Israel and have members in the Knesset.
Mr. Cohen, the human condition is flawed. But some groups are more flawed that others. I posit that this is just a millennia long remnant of anti-Semitism which is covered by the faux rubric of just left wing idealism.
Anti Jewish rhetoric is so powerful because the criticisms of it are so ambiguous and vague. And the probability of it continuing is a function of how long it has existed all over the world ... even in nations and societies with few Jews present.
A total outrage which will probably continue until the flawed condition of humanity destroys the viability of life on Earth ... which is more than possible.
1
SIDEBAR:
IT IS UNBELIEVABLE TO ME HOW THE LEFT CONCENTRATES . . .
...on the so labeled misdeeds of Israel which is the only Western style democracy and free market state in the entire Middle East. So, if a child, man or woman is knifed or killed, devotes of the pro-Palestinians cry out for retribution towards the Zionist state.
In the meantime, over 99% of Muslims are arrested, tortured and brutally killed by other Muslims due to their so-called incorrect interpretation of Islam or just plain Seventh Century interpretation of this tribal religion.
Most Jews have had to leave the Muslim nations in the Middle East due to legitimate fear of death. As the mantra of the Islamist is "death to Israel" and "throw them into the sea" as they deny the Holocaust.
While Arabs in Israel enjoy being active members of Israel and have members in the Knesset.
Mr. Cohen, the human condition is flawed. But some groups are more flawed that others. I posit that this is just a millennia long remnant of anti-Semitism which is covered by the faux rubric of just left wing idealism.
Anti Jewish rhetoric is so powerful because the criticisms of it are so ambiguous and vague. And the probability of it continuing is a function of how long it has existed all over the world ... even in nations and societies with few Jews present.
A total outrage which will probably continue until the flawed condition of humanity destroys the viability of life on Earth ... which is more than possible.
IT IS UNBELIEVABLE TO ME HOW THE LEFT CONCENTRATES . . .
...on the so labeled misdeeds of Israel which is the only Western style democracy and free market state in the entire Middle East. So, if a child, man or woman is knifed or killed, devotes of the pro-Palestinians cry out for retribution towards the Zionist state.
In the meantime, over 99% of Muslims are arrested, tortured and brutally killed by other Muslims due to their so-called incorrect interpretation of Islam or just plain Seventh Century interpretation of this tribal religion.
Most Jews have had to leave the Muslim nations in the Middle East due to legitimate fear of death. As the mantra of the Islamist is "death to Israel" and "throw them into the sea" as they deny the Holocaust.
While Arabs in Israel enjoy being active members of Israel and have members in the Knesset.
Mr. Cohen, the human condition is flawed. But some groups are more flawed that others. I posit that this is just a millennia long remnant of anti-Semitism which is covered by the faux rubric of just left wing idealism.
Anti Jewish rhetoric is so powerful because the criticisms of it are so ambiguous and vague. And the probability of it continuing is a function of how long it has existed all over the world ... even in nations and societies with few Jews present.
A total outrage which will probably continue until the flawed condition of humanity destroys the viability of life on Earth ... which is more than possible.
5
Thank you again Mr. Cohen. Well said.
Where might I find info on exactly what the American Tax loopholes are that benefit settlers?
Where might I find info on exactly what the American Tax loopholes are that benefit settlers?
Thank you again Mr. Cohen. Well said.
Where might I find info on exactly what the American Tax loopholes are that benefit settlers?
Where might I find info on exactly what the American Tax loopholes are that benefit settlers?
3
The comments were made by Aviv Bushinsky. Mr. Bushinsky is currently the Chairman of the Israel Squash Association. But if the headline read: Israeli squash chairman attacks US ambassador nobody would care. Or former chairman of Maccabi Tel-Aviv or former chairman of the Israel Chess Federation attacks ambassador, would that appear anywhere?
Mr. Bushinsky served as Mr. Netanyahu's media aide from 1998-1999, i.e. he ceased being an aide almost 20 years ago, albeit he might technically be called a "former aide", but still almost 20 years ago?
Mr. Bushinsky served as chief of staff to the Finance Minister during 2003-2004. True Mr. Netanyahu was the Finance Minister, but even that was a very long time ago. And the headlines refer to Mr. Netanyahu as Prime Minister.
In my unprofessional view, and not seeking to justify the comment, the insistence of tying a "former aide" to his boss after so many years smacks of "yellow journalism" and I cannot remember world-over that the same rules apply to other leaders. But then when it comes to Mr. Netanyahu the rules are different.
So if Mr. Cohen brings up legitimate topics of frustration, then he should also pay attention to other legitimate causes of frustration.
I have no argument with those who decry the statement. I have no argument with those who seek to speak out against "the occupation" (but would request that they suggest a viable solution).
But "former aide of Mr. Netanyahu? Too much already.
Mr. Bushinsky served as Mr. Netanyahu's media aide from 1998-1999, i.e. he ceased being an aide almost 20 years ago, albeit he might technically be called a "former aide", but still almost 20 years ago?
Mr. Bushinsky served as chief of staff to the Finance Minister during 2003-2004. True Mr. Netanyahu was the Finance Minister, but even that was a very long time ago. And the headlines refer to Mr. Netanyahu as Prime Minister.
In my unprofessional view, and not seeking to justify the comment, the insistence of tying a "former aide" to his boss after so many years smacks of "yellow journalism" and I cannot remember world-over that the same rules apply to other leaders. But then when it comes to Mr. Netanyahu the rules are different.
So if Mr. Cohen brings up legitimate topics of frustration, then he should also pay attention to other legitimate causes of frustration.
I have no argument with those who decry the statement. I have no argument with those who seek to speak out against "the occupation" (but would request that they suggest a viable solution).
But "former aide of Mr. Netanyahu? Too much already.
1
The comments were made by Aviv Bushinsky. Mr. Bushinsky is currently the Chairman of the Israel Squash Association. But if the headline read: Israeli squash chairman attacks US ambassador nobody would care. Or former chairman of Maccabi Tel-Aviv or former chairman of the Israel Chess Federation attacks ambassador, would that appear anywhere?
Mr. Bushinsky served as Mr. Netanyahu's media aide from 1998-1999, i.e. he ceased being an aide almost 20 years ago, albeit he might technically be called a "former aide", but still almost 20 years ago?
Mr. Bushinsky served as chief of staff to the Finance Minister during 2003-2004. True Mr. Netanyahu was the Finance Minister, but even that was a very long time ago. And the headlines refer to Mr. Netanyahu as Prime Minister.
In my unprofessional view, and not seeking to justify the comment, the insistence of tying a "former aide" to his boss after so many years smacks of "yellow journalism" and I cannot remember world-over that the same rules apply to other leaders. But then when it comes to Mr. Netanyahu the rules are different.
So if Mr. Cohen brings up legitimate topics of frustration, then he should also pay attention to other legitimate causes of frustration.
I have no argument with those who decry the statement. I have no argument with those who seek to speak out against "the occupation" (but would request that they suggest a viable solution).
But "former aide of Mr. Netanyahu? Too much already.
Mr. Bushinsky served as Mr. Netanyahu's media aide from 1998-1999, i.e. he ceased being an aide almost 20 years ago, albeit he might technically be called a "former aide", but still almost 20 years ago?
Mr. Bushinsky served as chief of staff to the Finance Minister during 2003-2004. True Mr. Netanyahu was the Finance Minister, but even that was a very long time ago. And the headlines refer to Mr. Netanyahu as Prime Minister.
In my unprofessional view, and not seeking to justify the comment, the insistence of tying a "former aide" to his boss after so many years smacks of "yellow journalism" and I cannot remember world-over that the same rules apply to other leaders. But then when it comes to Mr. Netanyahu the rules are different.
So if Mr. Cohen brings up legitimate topics of frustration, then he should also pay attention to other legitimate causes of frustration.
I have no argument with those who decry the statement. I have no argument with those who seek to speak out against "the occupation" (but would request that they suggest a viable solution).
But "former aide of Mr. Netanyahu? Too much already.
8
"The American Jewish community has grown more divided. Increasingly, younger Jews are distancing themselves from Israeli policies seen as unjust, unlawful, immoral or self-defeating."
I'm an older American Jew and I don't recognize the current Israel when I compare it to the shining democracy it was when the country was founded. Too many of it's current laws are, as you say, "unjust unlawful, immoral, or self-defeating." To be sure, Israel has been given many reasons to become so twisted by the Palestinians and other ME countries. But this way lies madness and I despair that Israel will be a democracy again in any of our lifetimes. You can't subject a people to occupation over decades and still be a democracy. Israel has become like South Africa in the last half of the twentieth century and we know how that ended.
I'm an older American Jew and I don't recognize the current Israel when I compare it to the shining democracy it was when the country was founded. Too many of it's current laws are, as you say, "unjust unlawful, immoral, or self-defeating." To be sure, Israel has been given many reasons to become so twisted by the Palestinians and other ME countries. But this way lies madness and I despair that Israel will be a democracy again in any of our lifetimes. You can't subject a people to occupation over decades and still be a democracy. Israel has become like South Africa in the last half of the twentieth century and we know how that ended.
1
"The American Jewish community has grown more divided. Increasingly, younger Jews are distancing themselves from Israeli policies seen as unjust, unlawful, immoral or self-defeating."
I'm an older American Jew and I don't recognize the current Israel when I compare it to the shining democracy it was when the country was founded. Too many of it's current laws are, as you say, "unjust unlawful, immoral, or self-defeating." To be sure, Israel has been given many reasons to become so twisted by the Palestinians and other ME countries. But this way lies madness and I despair that Israel will be a democracy again in any of our lifetimes. You can't subject a people to occupation over decades and still be a democracy. Israel has become like South Africa in the last half of the twentieth century and we know how that ended.
I'm an older American Jew and I don't recognize the current Israel when I compare it to the shining democracy it was when the country was founded. Too many of it's current laws are, as you say, "unjust unlawful, immoral, or self-defeating." To be sure, Israel has been given many reasons to become so twisted by the Palestinians and other ME countries. But this way lies madness and I despair that Israel will be a democracy again in any of our lifetimes. You can't subject a people to occupation over decades and still be a democracy. Israel has become like South Africa in the last half of the twentieth century and we know how that ended.
276
very well put mark.as a66year old jew ,you cannot keep building settlements and expect peace .
1
"You can't subject a people to occupation over decades and still be a democracy. " So, are you talking about our treatment of the American Indians? Or is it just Israel that is subject to the highest standard of any existing nation?
1
What do you suggest as a solution? Should Israel completely withdraw from "the west bank" like they did in Gaza? Should Israel hand over the land to Abbas, whose elected term ended many years ago? Should they hand it over to Hamas, who vows to destroy Israel and murder Jews? Or should Israel annex the land and give citizenship to the palestinian Arabs, even though a recent poll (conducted by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research) reveals that 67% of them believe in stabbing Israelis? Or maybe Israel should annex the land and expel the palestinian Arabs, as the Arabs did to the Jews living there in the early- to mid-1900's?
2
If the US stops labeling West Bank products, I am going to stop buying anything made in Israel. I am (or have been) against BDS, but I may have to rethink that.
If the US stops labeling West Bank products, I am going to stop buying anything made in Israel. I am (or have been) against BDS, but I may have to rethink that.
1
No great loss.
Every member of my father's family - as with all Jews - was evicted from Egypt after the 1956 War. Given 48 hours notice, each left with no possessions, just 20 Egyptian Pounds. My uncle, though, was thrown into prison after his business partner, a Muslim, accused him of being a "Zionist spy". He languished there for 2 years before his wife was finally able to get their influential Muslim friends to get his release. The business partner, meanwhile, had taken over a 40 truck freight company. My father, an American citizen since 1940 and war hero who was on Gen. MacArthur's staff, brought his now destitute relatives to America in 1958.
This is not a unique story. Every Jew in every Arab nation lost everything after 1956. Most of those who were able to flee found refuge in Israel. But thousands were murdered. All who survived, like my uncle, not only lost everything but also died broken in spirit and body.
Is it any wonder that Israel and its Jewish citizens, faced with the hatreds that go back centuries, harbor animosity to Arabs, most of whom would rather see their ultimate demise than co-exist in peace? It's easy for the self-righteous to ridicule Israel's policy towards the Palestinians. But in the context of what the Arab states have sponsored since Israel's inception in 1948, it is quite understandable. Until the day comes when every Arab and every Muslim recognize Israel's right to live in peace and in harmony, Israel will do whatever is necessary to defend itself.
This is not a unique story. Every Jew in every Arab nation lost everything after 1956. Most of those who were able to flee found refuge in Israel. But thousands were murdered. All who survived, like my uncle, not only lost everything but also died broken in spirit and body.
Is it any wonder that Israel and its Jewish citizens, faced with the hatreds that go back centuries, harbor animosity to Arabs, most of whom would rather see their ultimate demise than co-exist in peace? It's easy for the self-righteous to ridicule Israel's policy towards the Palestinians. But in the context of what the Arab states have sponsored since Israel's inception in 1948, it is quite understandable. Until the day comes when every Arab and every Muslim recognize Israel's right to live in peace and in harmony, Israel will do whatever is necessary to defend itself.
"Every Arab and every Muslim." In other words never. How about both sides trying to make peace instead of provoking hatred? Israel, as the incomparably stronger side, holds all the cards.
Every member of my father's family - as with all Jews - was evicted from Egypt after the 1956 War. Given 48 hours notice, each left with no possessions, just 20 Egyptian Pounds. My uncle, though, was thrown into prison after his business partner, a Muslim, accused him of being a "Zionist spy". He languished there for 2 years before his wife was finally able to get their influential Muslim friends to get his release. The business partner, meanwhile, had taken over a 40 truck freight company. My father, an American citizen since 1940 and war hero who was on Gen. MacArthur's staff, brought his now destitute relatives to America in 1958.
This is not a unique story. Every Jew in every Arab nation lost everything after 1956. Most of those who were able to flee found refuge in Israel. But thousands were murdered. All who survived, like my uncle, not only lost everything but also died broken in spirit and body.
Is it any wonder that Israel and its Jewish citizens, faced with the hatreds that go back centuries, harbor animosity to Arabs, most of whom would rather see their ultimate demise than co-exist in peace? It's easy for the self-righteous to ridicule Israel's policy towards the Palestinians. But in the context of what the Arab states have sponsored since Israel's inception in 1948, it is quite understandable. Until the day comes when every Arab and every Muslim recognize Israel's right to live in peace and in harmony, Israel will do whatever is necessary to defend itself.
This is not a unique story. Every Jew in every Arab nation lost everything after 1956. Most of those who were able to flee found refuge in Israel. But thousands were murdered. All who survived, like my uncle, not only lost everything but also died broken in spirit and body.
Is it any wonder that Israel and its Jewish citizens, faced with the hatreds that go back centuries, harbor animosity to Arabs, most of whom would rather see their ultimate demise than co-exist in peace? It's easy for the self-righteous to ridicule Israel's policy towards the Palestinians. But in the context of what the Arab states have sponsored since Israel's inception in 1948, it is quite understandable. Until the day comes when every Arab and every Muslim recognize Israel's right to live in peace and in harmony, Israel will do whatever is necessary to defend itself.
7
"Every Arab and every Muslim." In other words never. How about both sides trying to make peace instead of provoking hatred? Israel, as the incomparably stronger side, holds all the cards.
6
MCH, I wish more would read and understand the historical events you describe and the very important lesson: The Jews did not resort to violence. They left and started their lives peacefully elsewhere. Sadly, one of the young men killed in the Kosher Market in Paris last year, was the son of a family who had 24 hours to flee North Africa, more proof of the need for a jewish state.
3
“It is human nature to react to occupation, which often serves as a potent incubator of hate and extremism.”
No truer words were ever written. The Iraq war, for example, gave truth to such a perspective. Ms Farooqi is wise to step out of the echo chambers and spread this message to those who need to hear it.
No truer words were ever written. The Iraq war, for example, gave truth to such a perspective. Ms Farooqi is wise to step out of the echo chambers and spread this message to those who need to hear it.
“It is human nature to react to occupation, which often serves as a potent incubator of hate and extremism.”
No truer words were ever written. The Iraq war, for example, gave truth to such a perspective. Ms Farooqi is wise to step out of the echo chambers and spread this message to those who need to hear it.
No truer words were ever written. The Iraq war, for example, gave truth to such a perspective. Ms Farooqi is wise to step out of the echo chambers and spread this message to those who need to hear it.
2
It is easy to agree with this article. Many Israeli's agree that the current situation is untenable.
However; there is no solution to the Gaza experiment. Over 10 years ago Israel left Gaza and forcebly removed its own Jewish settlers. The Palestinians could have used the billions of dollars poured into the Gaza experiment to create a functioning society with, modern infrastructure, jobs for its people, Hopsitals, schools etc etc. The money was used for rockets to harrass and kill Israeli, Tunnells to kill Israeli border guards etc. The paranoia of many Israeli to a Palestinian state is based on this Experiment.
You will have to convince many Israelis who believe in a two state solaution that two hostile Palestine states on either side of the country will result in Peace and justice for all, when one Gaza Palestine state was a disaster.
As in the USA ignoring discussion and solutions to previous policies that resulted in poor outcomes, results in the rise of extreme political views in a society. We can see that in the current political debates. When Secretary General Ban Ki-moon comes up with a solution or our own Mr Kerry, it is time to discuss as well the Gorrilla in the room. The failed Gaza experiment.
However; there is no solution to the Gaza experiment. Over 10 years ago Israel left Gaza and forcebly removed its own Jewish settlers. The Palestinians could have used the billions of dollars poured into the Gaza experiment to create a functioning society with, modern infrastructure, jobs for its people, Hopsitals, schools etc etc. The money was used for rockets to harrass and kill Israeli, Tunnells to kill Israeli border guards etc. The paranoia of many Israeli to a Palestinian state is based on this Experiment.
You will have to convince many Israelis who believe in a two state solaution that two hostile Palestine states on either side of the country will result in Peace and justice for all, when one Gaza Palestine state was a disaster.
As in the USA ignoring discussion and solutions to previous policies that resulted in poor outcomes, results in the rise of extreme political views in a society. We can see that in the current political debates. When Secretary General Ban Ki-moon comes up with a solution or our own Mr Kerry, it is time to discuss as well the Gorrilla in the room. The failed Gaza experiment.
It is easy to agree with this article. Many Israeli's agree that the current situation is untenable.
However; there is no solution to the Gaza experiment. Over 10 years ago Israel left Gaza and forcebly removed its own Jewish settlers. The Palestinians could have used the billions of dollars poured into the Gaza experiment to create a functioning society with, modern infrastructure, jobs for its people, Hopsitals, schools etc etc. The money was used for rockets to harrass and kill Israeli, Tunnells to kill Israeli border guards etc. The paranoia of many Israeli to a Palestinian state is based on this Experiment.
You will have to convince many Israelis who believe in a two state solaution that two hostile Palestine states on either side of the country will result in Peace and justice for all, when one Gaza Palestine state was a disaster.
As in the USA ignoring discussion and solutions to previous policies that resulted in poor outcomes, results in the rise of extreme political views in a society. We can see that in the current political debates. When Secretary General Ban Ki-moon comes up with a solution or our own Mr Kerry, it is time to discuss as well the Gorrilla in the room. The failed Gaza experiment.
However; there is no solution to the Gaza experiment. Over 10 years ago Israel left Gaza and forcebly removed its own Jewish settlers. The Palestinians could have used the billions of dollars poured into the Gaza experiment to create a functioning society with, modern infrastructure, jobs for its people, Hopsitals, schools etc etc. The money was used for rockets to harrass and kill Israeli, Tunnells to kill Israeli border guards etc. The paranoia of many Israeli to a Palestinian state is based on this Experiment.
You will have to convince many Israelis who believe in a two state solaution that two hostile Palestine states on either side of the country will result in Peace and justice for all, when one Gaza Palestine state was a disaster.
As in the USA ignoring discussion and solutions to previous policies that resulted in poor outcomes, results in the rise of extreme political views in a society. We can see that in the current political debates. When Secretary General Ban Ki-moon comes up with a solution or our own Mr Kerry, it is time to discuss as well the Gorrilla in the room. The failed Gaza experiment.
3
This is a precise description of my sentiments, as an American and a Jew, to the current state of affairs in Israel. I disagree that, "Black Lives Matter have focused minds on issues of oppression and injustice, it does not take much to draw a parallel with the Palestinian cause, however lacking in nuance that analogy may be." This is the wrong parallel. The correct one is apartheid in South Africa and the US treatment of the native Americans. It is an undisguised effort at creating a slave class.
The notion that the knife attacks are motivated by a desire to spill Israeli blood is abhorrent. It is the only means left for rebellion.
This "special relationship" between the US and Israel will end badly for Israel.
But they are committed to driving the Palestinians out and havng one state.
The notion that the knife attacks are motivated by a desire to spill Israeli blood is abhorrent. It is the only means left for rebellion.
This "special relationship" between the US and Israel will end badly for Israel.
But they are committed to driving the Palestinians out and havng one state.
"The notion that the knife attacks are motivated by a desire to spill Israeli blood is abhorrent. It is the only means left for rebellion."
You're defending knife attacks on civilians? Really?
You're defending knife attacks on civilians? Really?
This is a precise description of my sentiments, as an American and a Jew, to the current state of affairs in Israel. I disagree that, "Black Lives Matter have focused minds on issues of oppression and injustice, it does not take much to draw a parallel with the Palestinian cause, however lacking in nuance that analogy may be." This is the wrong parallel. The correct one is apartheid in South Africa and the US treatment of the native Americans. It is an undisguised effort at creating a slave class.
The notion that the knife attacks are motivated by a desire to spill Israeli blood is abhorrent. It is the only means left for rebellion.
This "special relationship" between the US and Israel will end badly for Israel.
But they are committed to driving the Palestinians out and havng one state.
The notion that the knife attacks are motivated by a desire to spill Israeli blood is abhorrent. It is the only means left for rebellion.
This "special relationship" between the US and Israel will end badly for Israel.
But they are committed to driving the Palestinians out and havng one state.
5
"The notion that the knife attacks are motivated by a desire to spill Israeli blood is abhorrent. It is the only means left for rebellion."
You're defending knife attacks on civilians? Really?
You're defending knife attacks on civilians? Really?
4
Whether or not your statement is correct, that doesn't justify the fact that Hamas is killing innocent civilians.
3
At least you can criticize Israeli policies without fear of retribution or having ones limbs severed. That is what separates Israel from its more radical neighbors. If the Palestinians controlled the government I wonder if free speech would be permitted.
At least you can criticize Israeli policies without fear of retribution or having ones limbs severed. That is what separates Israel from its more radical neighbors. If the Palestinians controlled the government I wonder if free speech would be permitted.
4
Free speech is not permitted by the Palestinian governments now. Don't expect to read a column in the NYT about the recent Palestinian journalist beaten/tortured into submission by his "government". Don't expect to read about the Palestinian in Canada who is fighting deportation back to Gaza (he faces certain death for being gay). He credits the Israelis, who cared for him, with changing his life.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/world/2016/01/12/gaza-journalist-says-w...
https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/world/2016/01/12/gaza-journalist-says-w...
3
How do you stitch up a wound that the patient keeps pulling open?
How do you stitch up a wound that the patient keeps pulling open?
Daniel Shapiro's criticism of Israel's double standard for Israelis and Palestinians in the West Bank got further support from a recent NYT report about an imminent Israeli land-grab in east Jerusalem: "Jews can sue for complete restitution of their pre-1948 East Jerusalem properties. But Palestinians who lost West Jerusalem properties in the wars ... generally are eligible for compensation based only on the 1949 value of the home or land, and it is ...." http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/15/world/middleeast/in-jerusalem-old-city...
Daniel Shapiro's criticism of Israel's double standard for Israelis and Palestinians in the West Bank got further support from a recent NYT report about an imminent Israeli land-grab in east Jerusalem: "Jews can sue for complete restitution of their pre-1948 East Jerusalem properties. But Palestinians who lost West Jerusalem properties in the wars ... generally are eligible for compensation based only on the 1949 value of the home or land, and it is ...." http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/15/world/middleeast/in-jerusalem-old-city...
3
Listen to yourself.
Jews were kicked out of Jerusalem and not allowed back even to pray at their most holy place in the world.
These people were kicked by the people you want to be compensated because they were forced to leave the homes they took from the Jews.
These people should get nothing.
Israel has not kicked people out of Jerusalem.
Go there if you don't believe me.
Everywhere you look you will see Muslims
They even control the temple mount.
So do not condemn the Jews when you should be praising them.
Jews were kicked out of Jerusalem and not allowed back even to pray at their most holy place in the world.
These people were kicked by the people you want to be compensated because they were forced to leave the homes they took from the Jews.
These people should get nothing.
Israel has not kicked people out of Jerusalem.
Go there if you don't believe me.
Everywhere you look you will see Muslims
They even control the temple mount.
So do not condemn the Jews when you should be praising them.
2
Mr Cohen
Israel was attacked by all it's neighboring Muslim countries and it's own Israeli Arab citizens in the 40's, 50's, 60's, and 70's in formal wars with the stated aimi to annihilate the Jewish State and rid the Middle East of all Jews as had happened in all the nations of the Middle East and Europe except Israel.
Since the 70's several smaller skirmishes with similar stated intent to destroy the Jewish State and kill all the Jews have occurred on a regular basis. Indeed only Jordan and Egypt have rescinded this aim to annihilate Israel and the Jews in exchange for peace.
So, with that history in mind, why do you insist on expecting Israel to return to 1967 borders and commit suicide by diplomacy when there has been no de facto formal declaration of the recognition of the Jewish State of Israel or Jews to live in the Middle from the Israeli Arabs, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran and the surrounding Arab nations of the Mid East?
Israel was attacked by all it's neighboring Muslim countries and it's own Israeli Arab citizens in the 40's, 50's, 60's, and 70's in formal wars with the stated aimi to annihilate the Jewish State and rid the Middle East of all Jews as had happened in all the nations of the Middle East and Europe except Israel.
Since the 70's several smaller skirmishes with similar stated intent to destroy the Jewish State and kill all the Jews have occurred on a regular basis. Indeed only Jordan and Egypt have rescinded this aim to annihilate Israel and the Jews in exchange for peace.
So, with that history in mind, why do you insist on expecting Israel to return to 1967 borders and commit suicide by diplomacy when there has been no de facto formal declaration of the recognition of the Jewish State of Israel or Jews to live in the Middle from the Israeli Arabs, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran and the surrounding Arab nations of the Mid East?
Mr Cohen
Israel was attacked by all it's neighboring Muslim countries and it's own Israeli Arab citizens in the 40's, 50's, 60's, and 70's in formal wars with the stated aimi to annihilate the Jewish State and rid the Middle East of all Jews as had happened in all the nations of the Middle East and Europe except Israel.
Since the 70's several smaller skirmishes with similar stated intent to destroy the Jewish State and kill all the Jews have occurred on a regular basis. Indeed only Jordan and Egypt have rescinded this aim to annihilate Israel and the Jews in exchange for peace.
So, with that history in mind, why do you insist on expecting Israel to return to 1967 borders and commit suicide by diplomacy when there has been no de facto formal declaration of the recognition of the Jewish State of Israel or Jews to live in the Middle from the Israeli Arabs, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran and the surrounding Arab nations of the Mid East?
Israel was attacked by all it's neighboring Muslim countries and it's own Israeli Arab citizens in the 40's, 50's, 60's, and 70's in formal wars with the stated aimi to annihilate the Jewish State and rid the Middle East of all Jews as had happened in all the nations of the Middle East and Europe except Israel.
Since the 70's several smaller skirmishes with similar stated intent to destroy the Jewish State and kill all the Jews have occurred on a regular basis. Indeed only Jordan and Egypt have rescinded this aim to annihilate Israel and the Jews in exchange for peace.
So, with that history in mind, why do you insist on expecting Israel to return to 1967 borders and commit suicide by diplomacy when there has been no de facto formal declaration of the recognition of the Jewish State of Israel or Jews to live in the Middle from the Israeli Arabs, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran and the surrounding Arab nations of the Mid East?
4
"Farooqi, a senior at the University of Maryland, is a Pakistani-American Muslim elected to lead J Street U last summer."
Makes me proud to be a Jewish Terrapin. Go Terps, Go!!
Makes me proud to be a Jewish Terrapin. Go Terps, Go!!
"Farooqi, a senior at the University of Maryland, is a Pakistani-American Muslim elected to lead J Street U last summer."
Makes me proud to be a Jewish Terrapin. Go Terps, Go!!
Makes me proud to be a Jewish Terrapin. Go Terps, Go!!
"Palestinian leaders also have a responsibility to curb that hate — to cease incitement, hold elections, overcome divisions and abandon their sterile retreat into victimhood. But nothing can excuse Israel’s relentless pursuit of the very occupation that undermines it."
Always a qualifier, never a statement that makes Palestinian violence the issue that breaks any deals. Israel is always guilty in Cohen's mind. How about placing the blame where it really belongs? On the ways Palestinians need to commit never-ending violence in order for them "to be heard"?
Always a qualifier, never a statement that makes Palestinian violence the issue that breaks any deals. Israel is always guilty in Cohen's mind. How about placing the blame where it really belongs? On the ways Palestinians need to commit never-ending violence in order for them "to be heard"?
"Palestinian leaders also have a responsibility to curb that hate — to cease incitement, hold elections, overcome divisions and abandon their sterile retreat into victimhood. But nothing can excuse Israel’s relentless pursuit of the very occupation that undermines it."
Always a qualifier, never a statement that makes Palestinian violence the issue that breaks any deals. Israel is always guilty in Cohen's mind. How about placing the blame where it really belongs? On the ways Palestinians need to commit never-ending violence in order for them "to be heard"?
Always a qualifier, never a statement that makes Palestinian violence the issue that breaks any deals. Israel is always guilty in Cohen's mind. How about placing the blame where it really belongs? On the ways Palestinians need to commit never-ending violence in order for them "to be heard"?
9
American Jews need to understand that we don't actually control Israeli policy and that Israelis don't actually care about our advice. They are going to take actions within their own country that seem best for them.
OTOH, Israelis need to understand that Anerican Jews will vote Democrat. They will continue to support things like democracy and religious freedom. We will never join forces with our own religious fundamentalists. And we will never support an anti-democratic state. Netanyahu can take his best shot. We're just going to ignore him.