I haven’t dated in ages, but I get to know new people often, through my work. Your approach (demanding answers to questions) reminds me of advice to people who are awkward.
There’s absolutely nothing like a sense of humor as an aphrodisiac, and you seem rather too earnest.
However, I have found that telling the truth is a real conversation starter, especially if you’re humble and/or witty. But even if you aren’t lucky enough to be funny, just saying something completely true can be disarming, charming.
Good luck, kid!
I excel at talking about things that matter -- the big stuff. Big talk is catnip to me. When men talk about the human condition and reveal their vulnerabilities, I swoon. But I've found that big talk also has it's downside. Small talk is a social lubricant that makes most people feel comfortable. And if your partner won't make small talk, he won't also do the small things that make up a good life. Contrary to what the philosophers have told me, I've learned that love is not about the big stuff, it's about the daily habit of niceties, of small things.
7
This brings to mind time I met a woman at a party in NYC who, within 5 minutes, told me her parents were Holocaust survivors. I am appalled at the lack of restraint in shared personal information practiced by many Americans. Give me people who can talk about a larger world than their own experience please.
2
This article will serve as a guide for an introvert person who can't even stand a small talk. In actuality an introvert really hates small talk because they like big talk, about the complex of life etc not just a simple 'what's up?'
Thanks sir.
Thanks sir.
5
Do you prefer meaningful conversation over small talk?
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BigTalk is the card game for you.
Check it out! → https://igg.me/at/bigtalkcard/
If the other person stretches out a 10 min small talk into an hour, and if she continues to do so every time she bumps into you, get the hint: she does NOT want to tell you about who she or where she wants to 'go' in life. She does not confide in you or deem you valuable/comfortable enough to share her deep thoughts with you.
Forcing everyone to engage in deep conversations (and ergo deep connections) with each other is ridiculous. Such connections should be established mutually, and not forced upon a party by another. Small talks are necessary for maintaining casual connections that we do NOT want to develop any further.
Forcing everyone to engage in deep conversations (and ergo deep connections) with each other is ridiculous. Such connections should be established mutually, and not forced upon a party by another. Small talks are necessary for maintaining casual connections that we do NOT want to develop any further.
4
From the age of 19, I have always subscribed to the idea of big talk on dates. It's been interesting. On one hand, I am friends with all of my ex's simply because we truly know each other. One the other, deal breakers are revealed early. After date one, I may know about my date's most traumatic childhood memory or I could be encouraging them to pursue their wildest dream. Bottom line, things move quickly.
The one downside to big talk first is that I often have a false sense of connection. By asking probing questions and getting real answers I have been a part of many whirlwind-romances, but I have yet to have one last. Now, I'm trying for strike-a-balance. Medium talk anyone?
The one downside to big talk first is that I often have a false sense of connection. By asking probing questions and getting real answers I have been a part of many whirlwind-romances, but I have yet to have one last. Now, I'm trying for strike-a-balance. Medium talk anyone?
11
I found this tactic used when I worked at a summer orchestra festival--there's no need for pleasantries when you all live and rehearse together nonstop for five weeks (or more for us counselors). I found that conversations got to the nitty gritty really quickly, and resulted in an intense connection with my current boyfriend. I found we are more comfortable in small talk now, as if we're able to work backwards from the "big talk" to "small talk" and make it more beneficial to both of us. Perhaps my lack of prior experience in the dating world contributes to my agreement with this philosophy (or maybe I've just yet to develop a habit of "small talk"), but I can't imagine meeting someone else a different way.
The Costa Rican hitchhiker could have made the story up . Everyone was sufficiently entertained, she got the ride and now there is a column about it.
4
There's a good and funny reply to this article on the Wash. Post:
For the love of all that is holy, save small talk
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/wp/2016/01/22/for-the-love-...
For the love of all that is holy, save small talk
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/wp/2016/01/22/for-the-love-...
1
I love the sentiment. One can use the same tact with networking events (instead of what you do, ask how they got into what they did or what they are passionate about, networking can be fun and fascinating at the same time). When it comes to a mate, it's great to start the way you do, but love the small talk. It's the little mundane chit chat that reconnects us to one another and allows the deeper stuff to come out later. It can be exhausting to only talk about the heavy stuff. Silence is also okay. Sometimes I stay in the room where my wife is just so I can be close to her.
10
As someone who is going through a breakup of a relationship of nearly 11 years, I found this article extremely inspiring. I look forward to having "Big Talk" with the people I date in the near future. Thank you for a heartfelt ode to new relationships.
I am astounded that you are an actuary. That sure shows my tendency to stereotype!
But seriously, you should be a screen writer....I actually SAW what you wrote about the hitch-hiker! Thanks for the great read!
But seriously, you should be a screen writer....I actually SAW what you wrote about the hitch-hiker! Thanks for the great read!
1
Don't knock small talk. The hunter/gatherer, paleo way of life--which humans lived for at least 25,000 yrs after we became homosapiens--a way of life--well, as to socializing, diet & childraising anyway--that every1 keeps pointing to as the gold standard for the best way for humans to live: as near as we can tell, by studying today's groups that live as close to that h/g lifestyle as possible, that what most of them spent/spend their time talking about is/was who was sleeping with whom. So would that be just as boring or "unimportant" as such "small" topics as the weather, for instance? Well, of course it is (& even more unimportant & boring, IMO).
One day my husband texted me from his grandmother's house. He said, "I'm watching Donohue with grammy now. In a little while I will take out the trash and then go to the bathroom."
That made me laugh harder than anything I can ever remember. Vive les banaliés!
That made me laugh harder than anything I can ever remember. Vive les banaliés!
3
I thought it was odd that the author wrote "Our hands shot up with questions" after the traveler mentioned that her husband came too, and was back at the house. People don't raise their hands during conversations when they want to ask a question.
1
I LOVED that sentence! Everyone wanted to ask a question....was it a "me first !" hand raise or is the amusing, intriguing sentence indicating a mental "hand raising" of everyone in the car? And does it matter?
8
No small talk. This is how I write, and I was just named one of the 100 Top Writers on Quora.
I've been published in Business Insider and Quartz this past year, but prior, I'd been interviewed all over in my professional roles -- here, The Economist, WSJ, Wired, all over.
Of course, that used to be the problem, lol.
Before I retired, I was always the storyteller -- for someone else. So my heartfelt tales were as the spokesperson for an NGO, a political group, a corporation. I never got to tell my own stories, not even on my own time.
When you are the founding executive director of the Tor Project, and an international advocate for Internet privacy? You have no privacy yourself. Anything you say on social media is assumed to be said on behalf of your organization.
Even now every so often I put in a disclaimer, mmm? But you don't go into that kind of work without being passionate about issues.
Now, I write with passion -- disabled after my stroke, and we are all dying, right? but trust me, I am dying faster than most of you. So I have a limited time to tell my stories and share what I have, and no incentive to be shy. I never need to worry about an employer tsking over my CV again, or a lover thinking less of my oversharing. Not asking pity, calling freedom. Lemonade.
I no longer dance on my feet, but yes, I dance all the more on the page. What writers who dance don't tell you why?
I've been published in Business Insider and Quartz this past year, but prior, I'd been interviewed all over in my professional roles -- here, The Economist, WSJ, Wired, all over.
Of course, that used to be the problem, lol.
Before I retired, I was always the storyteller -- for someone else. So my heartfelt tales were as the spokesperson for an NGO, a political group, a corporation. I never got to tell my own stories, not even on my own time.
When you are the founding executive director of the Tor Project, and an international advocate for Internet privacy? You have no privacy yourself. Anything you say on social media is assumed to be said on behalf of your organization.
Even now every so often I put in a disclaimer, mmm? But you don't go into that kind of work without being passionate about issues.
Now, I write with passion -- disabled after my stroke, and we are all dying, right? but trust me, I am dying faster than most of you. So I have a limited time to tell my stories and share what I have, and no incentive to be shy. I never need to worry about an employer tsking over my CV again, or a lover thinking less of my oversharing. Not asking pity, calling freedom. Lemonade.
I no longer dance on my feet, but yes, I dance all the more on the page. What writers who dance don't tell you why?
2
Let's be practical - the primary purpose of a first date to to determine if the person is a psychopath or not. Once that's out of the way, let the deep conversations begin...
2
That's why his strategy works so well. If on the first date I am immediately bombarded with intrusive and pseudo-deep questions like this I know to back away slowly. Like he says, his questions work as a filter. I don't believe he is aware many women are using them to filter him out.
2
While I largely enjoyed the essay, I would offer nuance: small talk need not be banal. Small talk may also include witty banter, which is revealing not only of a person's character, interests, and knowledge, but also can be highly entertaining. From there, the two parties can delve into the soul-searing topics that Boomer describes while having an idea of who the other person is and whether they might be compatible.
9
We couldn't agree with this article more!
For help with asking those deeper conversations, we've created Unplugged...
Get your copy today :)
http://thevenable.com/unplugged/unplugged/
For help with asking those deeper conversations, we've created Unplugged...
Get your copy today :)
http://thevenable.com/unplugged/unplugged/
For me, this column expresses a simple truth: Do what feels right for you.
I couldn't have done deep talk on my first date with my now-wife. It's not who I was 31 years ago. It's not who my wife was. Bit I'm not Tim Boomer, and there are plenty of women who aren't like my wife. Best of luck to him. Our life is now a mix of small and not-so-small talk. For the record, I enjoy the deeper talk more. Could I do it on a first date? Now there's a question I'll discuss at length with my wife.
I couldn't have done deep talk on my first date with my now-wife. It's not who I was 31 years ago. It's not who my wife was. Bit I'm not Tim Boomer, and there are plenty of women who aren't like my wife. Best of luck to him. Our life is now a mix of small and not-so-small talk. For the record, I enjoy the deeper talk more. Could I do it on a first date? Now there's a question I'll discuss at length with my wife.
2
All this so call meaningful talks are just another way of communicating with another. If you think one method or "deeper conversation" is better than other other forms of connecting with "small talks" you are falling into the the same trap that you are trying so hard to avoid.
first: a woman embarking on a potentially life-damaging midlife crisis obsessive-crush pursuit journey is not a lesson in love, nor is brute honesty (aka confession) among ships passing any thing to hold up as a standard for depth. second: listening in on a dead end conversation between two totally random people is not something to use as a relationship guidepost, unless one wants to rely on assumptions.
I have read laments like this before and don't buy into this standard-placing. it smacks of self assigned superiority. small talk and soul bearing both have their time and place. one "type" of conversation ignored: topical - music, art, literary, movies, science, etc.
we don't always need to blather on about ourselves.
I have read laments like this before and don't buy into this standard-placing. it smacks of self assigned superiority. small talk and soul bearing both have their time and place. one "type" of conversation ignored: topical - music, art, literary, movies, science, etc.
we don't always need to blather on about ourselves.
8
I couldn't agree more with what you said. There really is a time and place for all conversation. I have many wonderful and meaningful conversations with my loved ones. I'm not shy, and I'm a huge extrovert, but I do not feel that it is appropriate or necessary for me to bear my soul to everyone I meet. I think that's a ridiculous notion.
Besides, small talk can give us hints into how a person actually is. You just have to be perceptive.
Besides, small talk can give us hints into how a person actually is. You just have to be perceptive.
1
Tim Boomer, we are told, is an actuary. He should stick to his day job.
The hitchhiker in Costa Rica comes to see her lover. Ah, but with her husband.
The couple next to Boomer in the bar. On whom Boomer eavesdrops. And then writes about the eavesdropping in the New York Times, for the whole world to see.
Boomer’s choices are up to him. As for me, “Speak for yourself, Charlie” fits the bill. And that great song from The Pajama Game, “I don’t want to make small talk.”
The hitchhiker in Costa Rica comes to see her lover. Ah, but with her husband.
The couple next to Boomer in the bar. On whom Boomer eavesdrops. And then writes about the eavesdropping in the New York Times, for the whole world to see.
Boomer’s choices are up to him. As for me, “Speak for yourself, Charlie” fits the bill. And that great song from The Pajama Game, “I don’t want to make small talk.”
If you didn't have doubts about making an old woman perform like a trained monkey, I think the size of your talk isn't really your problem.
15
I finally realised the value of small talk - a regular greeting of 'how are you ?' enables the acquaintance, seen in passing, to quickly signal how they wish to be perceived - at this time - by this person.
So - to someone they don't wish to spend time with - 'fine' or just a nod.
To someone they want to talk to - a pained expression and a pause - can gain the response from the other - if they are not late for an appointment - 'what's up ?' - stop and talk
To both sides when both lives are going well - 'good thanks ! - and you ?' - smile and nod - continue on your way - both greeted, acknowledged and fine until next time
Yesterday - at my partner's 35 year college reunion lunch - I sat opposite a husband I'd never met - my partner asked 'how did you meet your wife ?' - I forget his response - he was retired but became most animated when he started to tell me at length about his previous work expertise - HVAC - and the importance of humidity in commercial air-conditioning installations
I'm guessing no wonder he's bored in retirement - if his most-engaging topic of conversation after he's stopped work - is what he used to do for work ...
So - to someone they don't wish to spend time with - 'fine' or just a nod.
To someone they want to talk to - a pained expression and a pause - can gain the response from the other - if they are not late for an appointment - 'what's up ?' - stop and talk
To both sides when both lives are going well - 'good thanks ! - and you ?' - smile and nod - continue on your way - both greeted, acknowledged and fine until next time
Yesterday - at my partner's 35 year college reunion lunch - I sat opposite a husband I'd never met - my partner asked 'how did you meet your wife ?' - I forget his response - he was retired but became most animated when he started to tell me at length about his previous work expertise - HVAC - and the importance of humidity in commercial air-conditioning installations
I'm guessing no wonder he's bored in retirement - if his most-engaging topic of conversation after he's stopped work - is what he used to do for work ...
OTOH he had a necessary job, which evidently he found very interesting. Lucky man.
1
I too long for depth and connection in relationships, but I also want to make sure I can trust the other person with my vulnerability. I want to know that they won't reject me or make me feel stupid for some of the deeper stuff. Small talk is a way of feeling out whether the other person possesses that trustworthiness.
10
What was the subplot about? The older woman who sings and then tells the story of her love, and finally climaxes with the information that her husband knows about her affair as well? What quality of openness are we asked to intuit from this story? And how does this help the writer with his "small talk/deep talk" quandary? Besides, the examples of "deep talk" given by the writer are downright pretentious. Asking a woman about what job was she passionate about and why sounds like one of those hokey-pokey job interview questions.
The art of conversation has died out in our culture, as it has in many cultures worldwide, due to the onslaught of social media, technological devices of various kinds, etc. People can't seem to talk like normal folks anymore, let alone "small" or "deep". We have also lost faith in the ability of words to evoke feelings in the hearts of our interlocutors.
The art of conversation has died out in our culture, as it has in many cultures worldwide, due to the onslaught of social media, technological devices of various kinds, etc. People can't seem to talk like normal folks anymore, let alone "small" or "deep". We have also lost faith in the ability of words to evoke feelings in the hearts of our interlocutors.
5
Small talk should consist of words with no more than 5 letters (eg- Cold today. I wear big coat). Alternatively, it should be about only small things (eg- Hey, do you ever think about Tom Thumb, the circus midget (midget was a perfectly acceptable work in Tom's day)). Deep talk should be - well, I think you can see where I'm going with this (eg- Hey, Crater Lake is 1,932 feet deep. It is the deepest lake in the United States). I think either opening line would make a guy very successful with women.
7
Your comments were hilarious! This was as "concrete" as one could be. Any thoughts on "brief" talk?
3
The older I get, the worse I am at both small and big talk. So much said over the years that amounts to very little. The unsaid things have become more important to me.
7
Jesus, this would get tiresome. Real quick.
15
Yes! Horrible.
There is an old expression "still water runs deep." I have always disagreed with that view-- most of the time, people who don't talk much really, really do not have much to say. The value of small talk is finding out if you want to keep talking. When I met my husband as a teenager, several people warned me that he was "very quiet." That he was not the least bit quiet with me was part of what made him fall for me-- here was someone to whom he could really talk! As for me, I loved our range of conversation: the weather sure, the comparative quality of milkshakes at fast food joints, bring it on. But so much more-- casual and deep. And 40 plus years later, the conversation goes on. PS-- great column. Funny and thought provoking-- like the best conversations!
9
In reading many of the comments, it looks like most people favor small talk, and I definitely agree that it has its merits. I like though, that the author takes a couple of the usual small talk topics (work, travelling, love life), and asks different questions about those topics. That's a really great idea, since small talk can often get a little stale (I mean, how many times can I tell someone that I'm from NC, and have them ask why I live in UT? And how many different answers can I come up with?). So I think I'm going to try to start asking slightly different questions, though still within the small talk realm. Like "What do you love about your hometown?" instead of or in addition to "Where are you from?"
1
Occasionally I think I've read the best Modern Love column ever. This is one of those times.
3
Friday was my 34th anniversary. Trust me. Most of that 34 years has been what you call "small talk," and that is not at all a complaint.
10
I'm sorry your heart got broken, but it didn't need to turn you into a git. You can't just shortcut your way into the deep connection you lost by making people sing and confess for you like a puppet. But good luck.
31
I looked up git. An excellent term that feels just right here. Thanks for helping my vocabulary.
3
I'm always struck with how much disdain there is for asking someone what they do for a living. Everything from trying to assess someone's worth to people not wanting to be measured or described by their work. I have found that with a little curiosity, you can find out a lot about another subject by talking to people about their job - if they will do it. It is such a shame when they don't. I have learned about professional gambling and helping to keep the electric grid running, for example. People spend 8 hours a day at a job, yet they can't find anything interesting to say about it - hogwash.
14
What a refreshing approach! This is exactly the type of conversation that allows the dating experience to evolve into a process of actually connecting with someone you want to know more about.
5
At minimum, this is a worthwhile thought experiment. Why not skip the small talk and go in deep? There's a sense of the unexpectedness: vulnerability, wonder and excitement.
Upon first reading the article, I was 100% on board with Tim, eager to write my support and grateful that someone finally broached the subject. That was until I read a few of the comments, all of which are favorable to small talk. And then I realized that they're all right. There are subtle nuances associated with small talk hold merit: affect, tone, facial expressions, eye contact, meanings upon meanings behind what is said and not said.
But what if that's how we've been conditioned over time? That one must ease into trust and vulnerability. What if, we tried the unknown?
I was recently at a friend's home for game-night where a stranger at the party turned to me and said, "Wow, you don't look like you want to be here." Naturally, I was surprised. But rather than brush it off, I explained how nervous I was feeling for my grandmother's recovery in the hospital. And afterwards, I thanked the stranger for the conversation-starter.
Yes, small talk is important because it's part of our custom and context-dependent. But what if it was flipped? Just a thought.
Upon first reading the article, I was 100% on board with Tim, eager to write my support and grateful that someone finally broached the subject. That was until I read a few of the comments, all of which are favorable to small talk. And then I realized that they're all right. There are subtle nuances associated with small talk hold merit: affect, tone, facial expressions, eye contact, meanings upon meanings behind what is said and not said.
But what if that's how we've been conditioned over time? That one must ease into trust and vulnerability. What if, we tried the unknown?
I was recently at a friend's home for game-night where a stranger at the party turned to me and said, "Wow, you don't look like you want to be here." Naturally, I was surprised. But rather than brush it off, I explained how nervous I was feeling for my grandmother's recovery in the hospital. And afterwards, I thanked the stranger for the conversation-starter.
Yes, small talk is important because it's part of our custom and context-dependent. But what if it was flipped? Just a thought.
7
In this case, it sounds like the stranger lacked a filter more than that he/she was genuinely concerned.
1
As a college student at a large school, I feel that small talk is almost crucial when meeting new people. When going to college, almost everything is new. New people, new classes, new friends, new professors. In fact, I was even told by my dean at orientation to make small talk whenever you're in a new surrounding, just to have some sort of conversation starter. I certainly would not feel comfortable if someone came up to me at one of my first days of college and asked me about my previous relationships, or my life at home, or my religious beliefs. I also would not feel comfortable asking someone about that matter. Without small talk, there is no mystery. One of the greatest things about relationships is having the ability to find more and more about someone with time, instead of finding that out within the first hour of meeting someone.
8
i am reminded of Simon & Garfunkel's song "The Dangling Conversation". Even when speaking of the "deeper" conversations, it often happens that we may not be speaking much at all:
Yes, we speak of things that matter,
With words that must be said,
"Can analysis be worthwhile?"
"Is the theater really dead?"
And how the room is softly faded
And I only kiss your shadow,
I cannot feel your hand,
You're a stranger now unto me
Lost in the dangling conversation.
And the superficial sighs,
In the borders of our lives.
Yes, we speak of things that matter,
With words that must be said,
"Can analysis be worthwhile?"
"Is the theater really dead?"
And how the room is softly faded
And I only kiss your shadow,
I cannot feel your hand,
You're a stranger now unto me
Lost in the dangling conversation.
And the superficial sighs,
In the borders of our lives.
6
This was a great read. I found it quite humorous. But don't take the author's ideas too seriously. He is violating a major social norm by doing this. A fun experiment is what it is. The hitchhiker in Costa Rica was able to bear her soul because she knew she would likely never see these people again. In the meantime, the author is still single. I would do this for a good laugh, but not to seriously believe I will meet someone by starting out telling all my personal experiences and information.
9
A few years back, I met someone online. Within minutes, literally minutes, he felt like a good friend or a close partner. We talked about who we were, not what we did. We exchanged feelings, not facts. And we talked with an unvarnished openness that, once you experience it, feels like the only proper way to get to know someone.
Ultimately this has much to do with personality: do both people want to quickly know each other deeply and intimately? I've met many who just don't care for that kind of immediate closeness, and from experience I don't always get along with them. Meanwhile, once in a very long time I meet someone who shares that tenderness and vulnerability.
Nothing official came of it, but I more enjoyed our conversations than the dozens of ho-hum first dates combined. To share your quirky, wondrous inner world is to be truly human.
Ultimately this has much to do with personality: do both people want to quickly know each other deeply and intimately? I've met many who just don't care for that kind of immediate closeness, and from experience I don't always get along with them. Meanwhile, once in a very long time I meet someone who shares that tenderness and vulnerability.
Nothing official came of it, but I more enjoyed our conversations than the dozens of ho-hum first dates combined. To share your quirky, wondrous inner world is to be truly human.
4
Just below the surface most people have the same feelings of fear, hurt, hope and the like. Sharing these usually just requires a compassionate and kind heart.
3
I've long believed that my deepest and longest friendships are based on 'swapping cole slaw recipes' - I guess it's my shorthand for small talk. We can't always talk about deep and meaningful things.
1
I could barely get past this snide statement:
"...I planned to learn how to surf and do yoga. Yes, it was the most clichéd response possible for a heartbroken 32-year-old Westerner like me."
I would suggest that the writer's social problems are linked to his stereotyping mindset.
"...I planned to learn how to surf and do yoga. Yes, it was the most clichéd response possible for a heartbroken 32-year-old Westerner like me."
I would suggest that the writer's social problems are linked to his stereotyping mindset.
2
It does seem like his personal list at the beginning of the essay - where he had come from, his broken yet unexplored relationship (why was it mentioned?), and where he was vacationing - constitute small talk of a literary type. Those were resume facts and unrelated to the "deep-diving" style of communication he advocates.
Small talk builds trust in little steps so that there is comfort in being honest about the big stuff. Small talk says don't rush, I am interested in you and nothing you will say will bore me. I like it.
13
I've been living with my husband for 30+ years and our most meaningful (and enjoyable) 'intimate' interaction so far this month was a 15-minute single-word back-and-forth about how to properly pronounce the word 'pepper' with an Australian accent. This non-conversation could have just as easily occurred during our first week of dating ... and that's what made me crazy about him then and continues to be endearing to me now.
9
I guess to an American the Australian pronounciation might sound like 'pairpah' ?
1
Yes ... 'pairpah' is it! Of course, there are countless intonations to go along with it. ;-) Thus the 15-minute exploration ...
Wow! Maybe all is not lost after all. This definitely is a game changer and so much more interesting than the fluff.
Seated to my left at a dinner party was a member of MENSA. She started the conversation by saying what a wonderful organization it was. She could arrange to have another member meet her at the airport or station when she travelled - - so she could associate with others who were her equal. I responded that a friend belonged to group that offered a similar advantage: Alcoholics Anonymous, and he could arrange to be met at the airport or station by another AA member, which helped keep him from drinking while traveling. Quietly, she turned to the person on her left and said: "Hello, my name is Ann, and I am a member of MENSA . . . . . .
17
For the best first date conversation in the history of the human race, see the film "American Splendor". Harvey Pekar notifies his date (and eventual wife!) Joyce that he's had a vasectomy before they even say hello.
1
From someone who has been dating for a long time and is tired of the small talk, thank you for this piece! If you are free next weekend I'd love to go on a big talk date!
Love the concept, doubt the implementation. But worth a shot for sure. Thanks for the idea @Tim. Would love to know how your dates reacted when you shared your concept with them. Was everyone on board easily or did it take you time convincing them?
1
Insisting a person to whom you are offering a ride sing a song and tell a story? That should have been our clue that the writer insists on not doing things for others out of selflessness. Insisting that a new date reveal personal, intimate details immediately? Also narcissistic, don't you think? Why not try listening to what the other chooses to reveal to you (both the hitchhiker and the date) rather than pushing your own agenda? Listening is a better skill to cultivate.
12
I appreciate being more deliberate about a conversation. Respect the organic flow of the exchange.
Anyone else feel more compelled to the red-faced, middle-aged hitchhiker's love triangle than this actual story?
6
"I took a deep breath and asked, 'Why did you fall in love with your wife?' He looked at me oddly, thought about it for a moment and then told me something beautiful."
Was it "Hell if I know"?
Was it "Hell if I know"?
4
He said, "We were on vacation in Costa Rica and I stole her from some Italian-speaking street vendor. Now she loves going back there every year to recapture out first romantic moments."
3
Language is VERY context sensitive. It can be very hard to understand what someone is trying to tell you about important topics until you understand how they communicate and what mood they are in. Communicating about low-importance subjects establishes this context and allows less dangerous communication when the topic become profound, nuanced, or sensitive. Of course, complete avoidance of deeper topics is problematic, but skipping small-talk communicates an impression that, attitude, mood and individual context are simplistic, easily gleaned, or unimportant.
3
I love a good deep talk -- but both small and deep talks can be performed well and with skill, leading into and out of each other. And Intimacy can only occur when all parties wish to share parts of themselves, and not everyone does when first meeting a stranger. One of the few rules of improv involves saying "yes, and" to whatever your partner offers, and building upon that offering with your own. Not a bad premise for conversation, who knows where it will lead?
Disdain for small talk can be taken too far, it reminds me of a set-up date I had years ago. I met a man at a cafe, and as I shook raindrops off of my umbrella and coat I made some remark about the rain. Because... it was raining.
His response: Oh, so we're going to talk about the weather, now?
My response: (Pause.) And what would YOU like to talk about?
Needless to say, that date was over before it even started. Now, years later, my wonderful partner (not that other guy) and I talk about everything from what we ate for dinner and the merits of Seinfeld (I'm not a fan and he hates that) to navigating family disfunction. I relish all of our conversations. Don't disdain the small talk. Take the offering, say "yes, and" and build from there.
Disdain for small talk can be taken too far, it reminds me of a set-up date I had years ago. I met a man at a cafe, and as I shook raindrops off of my umbrella and coat I made some remark about the rain. Because... it was raining.
His response: Oh, so we're going to talk about the weather, now?
My response: (Pause.) And what would YOU like to talk about?
Needless to say, that date was over before it even started. Now, years later, my wonderful partner (not that other guy) and I talk about everything from what we ate for dinner and the merits of Seinfeld (I'm not a fan and he hates that) to navigating family disfunction. I relish all of our conversations. Don't disdain the small talk. Take the offering, say "yes, and" and build from there.
13
I agree; it's like expecting an improv performance to be at the highest level without giving it a chance to get there.
1
The topic is not so important. If you are going to chat someone up, you better be engaging. Good conversation is never boring.
10
Dating conversation in this country has three common denominators- 1. Focus on fun stuff (sports, alcohol, drugs, music), 2. Don't sound mature and grown up, 3. don't use sophisticated words. I believe that the culture is dumbing down and hence insulting the human intelligence. I once met a smart girl who apologized for discussing psychology and philosophy. What a degeneration!
www.mausamkalita.blogspot.com
www.mausamkalita.blogspot.com
5
Good read, it confirms why questions are most of the time more important than answers.
2
In science and political analysis, perhaps the questions are as important as the answers. But in conversation, listening is all about the importance of the answer, and the best analogy of a successful talk is a friendly tennis rally where ignoring the strict lines keeps the flow going.
What is to be said about an uneven playing field? The hitchhiker accepted the conversation rules before she got in the car. My husband comes home every night, high as a kite on marijuana and wants to delve deep in discussion. But he doesn't really hear me, often misinterprets what I say, can't recall our conversation a day or two later and takes a late night hit on his pipe before he heads to bed. Marijuana relaxes him, loosens his tongue and put us on different playing fields. He, revels in the freedom the drug induces and turns to Facebook to express himself. I drink wine and wonder where does our conversation go from here?
6
Wish you both all the best! Sometimes it's a beautiful thing to spend a weekend together vowing complete sobriety, to enjoy one another as opposed to "let's have another" !
1
Sounds like a topic of conversation to have with him -- when he's not stoned. Good luck to you.
2
I empathize with your dilemma, which parallels the frustrations of many relationships. It's not my intention be flippant or to minimize the loneliness you're experiencing, but if you are comfortable with delving further into this, it sounds like good material for a Modern Love submission.
3
Way back when, when I was dating, after an hour-an-a-half of small talk I was asked whether I liked to play "Trivial Pursuit." I replied, "of course...haven't we been playing all evening?"
7
Your bizarre fixation on small talk will pass as soon as you get over the ex. It might take a little while. But it will happen. Good luck.
9
To answer the question of why we “can’t” just go straight to the profundity-Personal Boundaries.
The simple fact is we are all human and most of us realize that some people cannot be trusted and those that can be trusted rarely "just" open up and let anyone “in” to their personal space. The fact is such openness is a symptom of the PTSD inflicted by betrayal of trust in childhood on into adulthood.
The “small talk” is a necessary portion of the get to know you process by which we slowly get to see if your interlocutor knows the rules for conversation and argument and from that if they can think rationally, has manners, is kind or mean, is aware of personal boundaries and respects those boundaries, has discipline, can maintain focus on a topic, recall of what is being said, how honest are they……
All of these things and many more are what one should know before being open and profoundly personal with someone.
If one doesn’t do this one risks being injured mentally and emotionally at a depth the recovery from which leaves PTSD like scars on you. It is rather common for ignorant people who imagine themselves to be better smarter or more able, to take advantage of insecurity or willingness and ability to manipulate to play with others to get the feelings which come from within that make living life tolerable for them. If you take your time you can eliminate most of them before risking very much at all.
That is why we can’t just go straight to the deeper stuff.
The simple fact is we are all human and most of us realize that some people cannot be trusted and those that can be trusted rarely "just" open up and let anyone “in” to their personal space. The fact is such openness is a symptom of the PTSD inflicted by betrayal of trust in childhood on into adulthood.
The “small talk” is a necessary portion of the get to know you process by which we slowly get to see if your interlocutor knows the rules for conversation and argument and from that if they can think rationally, has manners, is kind or mean, is aware of personal boundaries and respects those boundaries, has discipline, can maintain focus on a topic, recall of what is being said, how honest are they……
All of these things and many more are what one should know before being open and profoundly personal with someone.
If one doesn’t do this one risks being injured mentally and emotionally at a depth the recovery from which leaves PTSD like scars on you. It is rather common for ignorant people who imagine themselves to be better smarter or more able, to take advantage of insecurity or willingness and ability to manipulate to play with others to get the feelings which come from within that make living life tolerable for them. If you take your time you can eliminate most of them before risking very much at all.
That is why we can’t just go straight to the deeper stuff.
26
Small talk is foreplay and for most, it works. Kind of like wading into the water at a beach-the need to acclimate oneself. If you want to just run into the water, like some do, and immerse yourself with a headlong plunge, well that's just you, so go for it. But since the writer started this piece about ending smalltalk with smalltalk, it's obvious this subject of smalltalk is complicated. I personally don't subscribe to 'slam, bam, thank you mam/man". I like to cozy up. But that's just me. I've been hurt in relationships, and I've hurt others, but don't think things would have been any different no matter how thy began.
3
I am about to enter the dating world after 20 years and this piece just brought a huge smile to my face! What a lovely and courageous idea, exactly the kind of person I'd want to have dinner with. BTW, I'd accept the coconut...
4
Watch out for guys with gimmicks!
3
Oddly I would say that you are on to something except in regards to having a discussion with your children.
I have found deep discussions often begin only after some mundane tasks are checked off togethet: cleaning the garage, or finishing a boardgameof no consequence.
Playing catch with my boys often elicited whatever subject was bothering them, or me.
The mundane, the practical, the obtuse and the inconsequential are often nerely prelude, but a crucial one.
I have found deep discussions often begin only after some mundane tasks are checked off togethet: cleaning the garage, or finishing a boardgameof no consequence.
Playing catch with my boys often elicited whatever subject was bothering them, or me.
The mundane, the practical, the obtuse and the inconsequential are often nerely prelude, but a crucial one.
11
All good, but what about when you're 64? It's Sunday morning, my husband and I just covered: weather (1st glimmer of sunshine after 6 days of grey); finches at the feeder (yellow and red); morning brew. Now on to the xword mini which was where I was headed in the first place. Nice detour though.
6
I have always detested small talk. After reading this I was surprised to see how many of the comments were in support of it. Perhaps it is because we are so bad at it as a culture. My parents grew up in Britain and to them small talk or rather conversation was an art. They have the skills at a "stand-up-and-shout" (cocktail party) to engage anyone for extended periods in topics that seemed to cover far more than the weather.
However, I think the author here is correct. Small talk and the associated banality is a soporific to some of us. Perhaps there is something to be learned from just a deeper engagement of people in general. When we take the time to learn something about the people around us they become infinitely more interesting.
However, I think the author here is correct. Small talk and the associated banality is a soporific to some of us. Perhaps there is something to be learned from just a deeper engagement of people in general. When we take the time to learn something about the people around us they become infinitely more interesting.
3
Applause to Mr. Boomer for a very touching story.
I believe that his and some others' feeling of love has not been true love, but rather a psychological insufficiency or aberration, where infatuation replaces love. It takes two to make it work, and the fault -- if there is any -- for a breakup may be in either one or both of the partners.
As to the avoidance of small talk, I am fully for this. Get to the point and remember that human speech is a very imperfect means of communication. It is nothing like "a plus b in parentheses raised to the third power".
I believe that his and some others' feeling of love has not been true love, but rather a psychological insufficiency or aberration, where infatuation replaces love. It takes two to make it work, and the fault -- if there is any -- for a breakup may be in either one or both of the partners.
As to the avoidance of small talk, I am fully for this. Get to the point and remember that human speech is a very imperfect means of communication. It is nothing like "a plus b in parentheses raised to the third power".
1
Why do you assume the woman in Costa Rica was telling youthe truth, and not "telling you a story" as you requested?
19
Ignoring all of the potential issues this skirts or ignores, I do appreciate and relate to the sentiment expressed here, but I also know how quickly nothing but Heartfelt profundities can transform themselves into another form of small talk when they become routine. And it is few and far between who can dive right in-- that's not breaking the ice, it's pretending it's not there which can have disastrous consequences.
1
We tend to think that what we talk about is the important thing. And what we talk about — or not — is enormously important. But before we developed language we were already having relationships. Watch two dogs meeting for the first time, sniffing around and obviously trying to decide what kind of relationship this will be? Play? Fight? Or turn off the sound on an old movie. You'll miss much of the plot, but you can see the relationships unfolding. Small talk is mostly a way of sniffing out how this person reacts, exploring how much mutual empathy exists. It's not just about the words, it's about the music.
7
I want a Tim Boomer in my life. Very few people "get" me but recently someone did. They said that I "don't do small-talk" and that hit it on the head. As an introvert, I'm an observer and want to know what makes people really tick. I find that strangers are more likely to get into deep conversations than those I already am acquainted with. People are fascinating, but most put up a protective wall so you never really get to know them.
5
Enough small talk- what happened to the woman in Costa Rica?
11
She went back home and wrote a creative essay about a boring group of young privileged surfers who made her perform like a trained monkey because they had no conversational skills.
3
This is all fine, but what happens when you're 65?
2
I think a better story would have been the hitchhiker, the love of her life, and her husband.
7
I've been with my boyfriend for four years and we have YET to have such deep conversations. Maybe I should try the "deep" approach.
I once met a woman who from the first date in a Miami Japanese restaurant, did not small talk. She opened her heart about her hopes, her fears and her past failures. I did as well.
Today this woman is my wife.
Today this woman is my wife.
7
Small talk is the equivalent of the first few steps or the first dance with a stranger. Allows both partners to gauge the step size, style of the other. Be patient and allow some time for this phase.
6
I think location has a lot to do with the success of this method. being in a vacation locale is far more conducive to soul-baring conversation.
1
I totally get what the writer was trying to say. I have found the need to be prepared to "get deep fast" in many situations: Having to indulge in a bit of "marriage counseling" with a work team mate who is threatening to have a melt down or answering political "hot button" questions at a friends dinner with the serving of the next dish awaiting my response, and listening to the details of a recent operation in response to "How are you?". Yes, I get it but sometimes a little small talk goes a long way. ( I am a little bummed however, what is is the backstory on the "dusty hitchhiker??)
1
I'm a very intense person by nature, and left unfettered, would go right to the big stuff. The reality is most people don't want it right away, and it becomes more about you than about them. Small talk and reciprocity in dialog let each party comfortably advance or withhold, within their comfort zones. Small talk can be inane when you're not paying attention. Jettisoning small talk is just another way of saying "if you're going to bore me, do it quickly".
4
A "policy" like this will lead to disaster, especially with work colleagues - just give it time.
Making big talk requires a level of trust and intimacy, and expecting that of all strangers as a "policy" is a mistake that will lead to trouble.
PS - how do you know that you weren't lied to in all those conversations thus far?
PPS - get some coconuts.
Making big talk requires a level of trust and intimacy, and expecting that of all strangers as a "policy" is a mistake that will lead to trouble.
PS - how do you know that you weren't lied to in all those conversations thus far?
PPS - get some coconuts.
6
To quote Amy Poehler, good for you! It's just not for me.
2
Personally I feel like there is one important piece of information missing. When Tim writes that he thought Alejandra was the girl he was going to marry - was it a plan she was aware of and relied on? Was it declared and agreed upon by both sides? What if she thought she would marry you too, but the two didn't talk about it enough, or plan it? If Tim indeed spent little or no time speaking and negotiating with his ex about marriage, chances are she didn't know it was that important for him and she should move on. And obviously he didn't think it was important for her, he doesn't even consider that maybe she thought exactly what he did. I don't know Tim's situation, I'm just speculating, but it looks painfully familiar. And in my opinion I think that it is unromantic to waste each others' time and not respect each others' futures enough to make it clear as to what your intentions are and that you're set on the goal to be with them, given that those are indeed your intentions. If you just think it - it really doesn't count. Of course you're allowed to think and dream, but if you say nothing and commit to nothing it won't make the relationship stronger in any way. I feel like the little effort and investment we put into our relationships really do not deserve the heartbreaks we suffer. With lassitude we treat our significant others it is surprising that our heartbreaks are somehow justified and feel so real.
5
Making small talk is the equivalent of stepping onto a frozen pond. You listen and if you hear cracking, you retreat.
I'm a person that people love to tell their problems to - even strangers. I find small talk banal but vital to establishing a sense of trust. If you show empathy for something as small as just missing the subway, people figure I might as well tell him my husband is cheating. Stuff like that has happened to me. Truth is indeed stranger than fiction.
I'm a person that people love to tell their problems to - even strangers. I find small talk banal but vital to establishing a sense of trust. If you show empathy for something as small as just missing the subway, people figure I might as well tell him my husband is cheating. Stuff like that has happened to me. Truth is indeed stranger than fiction.
12
It's not something that would work with the majority of people, I am guessing. It would be fine with me; even enjoyable. There's always the option to say "I'm not comfortable talking about THAT right now" and move on.
Life is full of interesting and stimulating subjects and events and I would much rather hear about and discuss those things than make small talk (which makes my head hurt).
Life is full of interesting and stimulating subjects and events and I would much rather hear about and discuss those things than make small talk (which makes my head hurt).
6
Not exactly related to this topic, but occasionally a connection appears out of nowhere and then may or may not be gone just as quickly as it came.
Once a couple of years ago, on St. Patrick's Day in a bar, I began dancing with a young woman I did not know. At first she was dancing with someone else and she was spectacularly good at it, marvelously beautiful in the way she moved, and then suddenly it was me dancing with her. The song was "Little Talk" by Monsters and Men, which has special meaning for me. Her smile was amazing. We exchanged words I barely remember but she said something to me the gist of which was like "you are a very deep soul". That was the tenor of our conversation. The whole thing felt like fate unfolding.
We did another dance, and I remember the feeling of her skin on my palm because her midriff was bare. Then the song ended and I went to get a beer. After a while I danced again with her, and after that she took me to meet her friend, who took hold of my left hand and pointed out the ring, and in those exact words, told me to leave. It had not even crossed my mind to go home with the girl, I was just enjoying the miracle of having met her, but I smiled, and obliged, and left, after saying goodbye to her.
The whole thing lasted only a half hour. She was about forty years younger than me. This encounter ended up being one of the highlights of that year for me. Sometimes lightening strikes. I enjoyed that moment, while it lasted.
Once a couple of years ago, on St. Patrick's Day in a bar, I began dancing with a young woman I did not know. At first she was dancing with someone else and she was spectacularly good at it, marvelously beautiful in the way she moved, and then suddenly it was me dancing with her. The song was "Little Talk" by Monsters and Men, which has special meaning for me. Her smile was amazing. We exchanged words I barely remember but she said something to me the gist of which was like "you are a very deep soul". That was the tenor of our conversation. The whole thing felt like fate unfolding.
We did another dance, and I remember the feeling of her skin on my palm because her midriff was bare. Then the song ended and I went to get a beer. After a while I danced again with her, and after that she took me to meet her friend, who took hold of my left hand and pointed out the ring, and in those exact words, told me to leave. It had not even crossed my mind to go home with the girl, I was just enjoying the miracle of having met her, but I smiled, and obliged, and left, after saying goodbye to her.
The whole thing lasted only a half hour. She was about forty years younger than me. This encounter ended up being one of the highlights of that year for me. Sometimes lightening strikes. I enjoyed that moment, while it lasted.
4
Great piece, Tim. In my book, Talk to Strangers, I encourage people to get deeper faster as a way to build relationship. Sure, some aren't comfortable with opening up on that level quickly, but you'll find many are -- it's about finding the common denominators that connect us all. When one goes there, it makes it easier for the other to go there, too. And believe me, most of us are hungry for that deeper connection.
1
This is crazy - small talk is the stuff of relationships - you save the grand plans and passions for cocktail parties to impress strangers - on an everyday basis the nitty gritty is the stuff of life and you should pick someone you feel happy sharing things like funny people you saw in your commute or the transporting sandwich you ran into in some gas station. One's level of tolerance or interest in another's mundane concerns is the oil of politeness that not merely lubricates social interaction but is the perfect audition for what life may feel like with another. We can't forever be inspiring and teaching one another - there has to be safe place to think aloud about your pressing concerns without fear of judgment.
10
I want more information about the coconut giver.
4
His questions makes his idea of a date sound too much like a job interview. I would shut down. There would not be a second date.
16
Well then how does one get to know another if not through questions that get below the surface?
I don't know, maybe it's a jersey thing, but I find most conversations start with the topic of weather. you can learn alot about someone by how they react to the small things, especially the weather. don't over think things people.
3
Small talk is a way to decide if this person is someone one wants to get to know better. Perhaps the reason people were staying in small talk with the writer is they really didn't want to get to know him and were eyeing the food table or drinks bar to get away as quickly as possible.
Too quick a move towards intimacy is creepy.
Too quick a move towards intimacy is creepy.
10
I agree. Intmacy is earned. Small talk may be banal, but it's a necessary beginning, in my opinion. I enjoy deeply reflective conversations, but only with people to whom I want to open my heart and mind. Personal confessions or declarations too early signal to me a lack of discretion and maturity.
8
so...skip the "pale cast of thought" and cut to :the native hue of resolution" (per hamlet's advice to the lovelorn)...sing songs and tell stories...period.
1
Ha! I'm in the same boat and as such have not truly "dated" in some time now. There have been dates, I'm always flirting and asking women out, but few that have turned into a string of them. For this very reason! I deplore small talk. Always have, even when I was younger when it was Step 1. in the dating convo.
I have a similar approach now, and must say its had mixed results. (Unlike the authors' that seemed to be Hollywood scripted.)
The thing I have found is that depending on the age of the woman, they are either incapable of the deeper talk, often due to their youth and lack of any time spent in real introspection. Or the older who have not had such conversations with males in so long they are either suspicious of my approach, or just think me some sort of freak for having so many interests and informed opinions. Because if they were formerly married they have been focused on their childrens immature interests, or their former long term dating partners were the cliched cro magnon convo grunters.
Adding to the tension is when I explain I will not have a text message relationship of any sort, period. (Unless its; "Im late, or do u prefer kale or a salad with dinner?") and I get the tilted-dog-head look. Like Im an alien. "What do You mean you dont do texts? How do you keep in touch?"
Ans. By talking to you at the appropriate times of the day, like it was always done, when people had to talk to get to know each other. We wont get to know each other thru texts.
I have a similar approach now, and must say its had mixed results. (Unlike the authors' that seemed to be Hollywood scripted.)
The thing I have found is that depending on the age of the woman, they are either incapable of the deeper talk, often due to their youth and lack of any time spent in real introspection. Or the older who have not had such conversations with males in so long they are either suspicious of my approach, or just think me some sort of freak for having so many interests and informed opinions. Because if they were formerly married they have been focused on their childrens immature interests, or their former long term dating partners were the cliched cro magnon convo grunters.
Adding to the tension is when I explain I will not have a text message relationship of any sort, period. (Unless its; "Im late, or do u prefer kale or a salad with dinner?") and I get the tilted-dog-head look. Like Im an alien. "What do You mean you dont do texts? How do you keep in touch?"
Ans. By talking to you at the appropriate times of the day, like it was always done, when people had to talk to get to know each other. We wont get to know each other thru texts.
8
You will talk to your lover at "the appropriate times of the day?" Whoa! And, uh, those appropriate times are to be determined by, let me guess ...you, I suppose?
This strikes me as very rigid thinking. Text messaging is merely a tool for communicating. A modern and highly useful one.
My love and I have seen and felt our love deepen via the act of texting. It offers the chance to remain close to each other throughout the day or at other times we may be separated, such as when one of us travels alone. Rather than detract from, it has, in fact, enhanced our everyday face to face conversation. When we meet after our day apart we have a good sense of what the other has encountered and thought of during that time and we move effortlessly into conversation which incorporates our text sharing.
Simply put, it's a wonderful and mostly unobtrusive way of staying in close contact with the person you love. And that, to me, is always an appropriate time of the day.
This strikes me as very rigid thinking. Text messaging is merely a tool for communicating. A modern and highly useful one.
My love and I have seen and felt our love deepen via the act of texting. It offers the chance to remain close to each other throughout the day or at other times we may be separated, such as when one of us travels alone. Rather than detract from, it has, in fact, enhanced our everyday face to face conversation. When we meet after our day apart we have a good sense of what the other has encountered and thought of during that time and we move effortlessly into conversation which incorporates our text sharing.
Simply put, it's a wonderful and mostly unobtrusive way of staying in close contact with the person you love. And that, to me, is always an appropriate time of the day.
1
I so appreciate where you are coming from. Texting for dating has reached an all-time high, and not in a good way. My boyfriend and I didn't text much when we started, more due to our dumb-phone inability, but still, we actually had conversations and that helped us grow together. That being said, try not to be too rigid in your views -- it's the rigidity that might be turning women off and a factor in your not being able to get past those first few dates.
You can pass on being married, and remain single. But you can't pass on being single!
2
Don't you pass on being single by getting married?
1
Getting married is not passing on anything. You need to take some action to get married.
1
Even in love we are still Hunters and Gatherers.
The key to success is engaging in conversation that will produce the maximum amount of flavorful protein.
Small talk is the equivalent of tofu.
Dig deep, be curious.
A delicious lifelong meal may be sitting across from you.
The key to success is engaging in conversation that will produce the maximum amount of flavorful protein.
Small talk is the equivalent of tofu.
Dig deep, be curious.
A delicious lifelong meal may be sitting across from you.
3
I've been bragging for 5 years about my first date with a Match.com woman who has turned out to be all I was looking for in life, a real partner who raised 2 girls now out of college. Genuine and sincere adults are able to "cut to the chase" at times and negotiate well without wasting time. We "sing" well together.
3
A great article to get us thinking. Still there are people that are private and prefer to open up slowly as they get to know us. Others may repel us with a tendency to over share, telling us more than we want to know. Relationships are complicated. Nothing is easy.
I wish he had more on the delusional Costa Rican traveler who was in the process of destroying her marriage to chase a fantasy. I'd like to know how that turned out.
I wish he had more on the delusional Costa Rican traveler who was in the process of destroying her marriage to chase a fantasy. I'd like to know how that turned out.
12
Tim has got it right - there's no time in this life for shallow conversations. How brave of him to make the decision to gently bring out the depth of another person; to want an openness that many are afraid to share. I hope one day he finds a woman who touches his heart as no other has!
4
I think this is a great read on an important topic and describes a practice that our culture could benefit greatly from reading and then practicing. I think it's important to point out, though, that as well intentioned as his approach seems to be, if it's not followed without regard to the other's emotional well being, it could sabotage the building chemistry. Many people have past trauma, large or small, that could easily be triggered by an eager probing into a topic area that triggers sometimes large amounts of discomfort. This doesn't mean the person is unwilling or unable to 'talk deeply', but that there's a specific time and place for it; and a specific rate at which they want to reach it with someone else. Initially, a good balance between the 'deep and superficial' conversation, and wording based on a healthy reading of the landscape of the building chemistry between two people seems prudent to me...and often, I've learned, if this is respected and acted upon, an even greater, deeper connection can be enjoyed.
5
I was really surprised by all the negative comments. I think that the author has an excellent point: in many situations, we engage in small talk because we are awkward and shy or bored or lazy.
I commend the author for making the effort to jump to the next level of conversation. I might not jump as far as he does ("When were you most in love?"), but I could easily ask or answer questions such as "Is there a book that you wish you had written yourself?", Or "Would you ever go back to live in your childhood town?".
There are ways to make people open up without giving them the impression you are aiming straight for their inner core.
I give the author A for effort and I wish he was one of my in-laws. Thanksgiving dinners would never be the same!
I commend the author for making the effort to jump to the next level of conversation. I might not jump as far as he does ("When were you most in love?"), but I could easily ask or answer questions such as "Is there a book that you wish you had written yourself?", Or "Would you ever go back to live in your childhood town?".
There are ways to make people open up without giving them the impression you are aiming straight for their inner core.
I give the author A for effort and I wish he was one of my in-laws. Thanksgiving dinners would never be the same!
4
I would say the author has got an agenda about conversations and how they should go. It is a dance as someone commented and that is different with every person. My small agenda is to not talk politics or religion with anyone since it is such a dead-ender. Either you agree (so whats the point) or not.
I was in a spiritual school for some years where we inquired with other students the painful and deep questions. You would think this would have bonded us together, but even the people who I worked with and had outside the school social life with, I have been unable to maintain a connection with. Sad to say that context and shared activity have that much sway in a relationship, but seems to.
I was in a spiritual school for some years where we inquired with other students the painful and deep questions. You would think this would have bonded us together, but even the people who I worked with and had outside the school social life with, I have been unable to maintain a connection with. Sad to say that context and shared activity have that much sway in a relationship, but seems to.
I think the writer is fearless and comfortable enough in his own skin to break the mold of "acceptable" social mores. Whenever he finds the (next) woman of his dreams she will appreciate that brio, especially if it is a characteristic she shares. Bravo, Mr. Boomer, Bravo.
2
I'm a very intense person by nature, and left unfettered, would go right to the big stuff. The reality is most people don't want it right away, and it becomes more about you than about them. Small talk and reciprocity in dialog let each party comfortably advance or withhold, within their comfort zones. Small talk can be inane when you're not paying attention. Jettisoning small talk is just another way of saying "if you're going to bore me, do it quickly".
What the writer is describing is conversational intimacy, which is something that is earned, not expected. If he were to ask me something along the lines of his article, I'd reply that it was none of his business. You have to prove you're someone worthy of trust before you get it.
10
When I was just a couple of years older than Mr. Boomer is now, I tried something similar (although not intentionally) to improve my first conversations with a new potential partner. Rather than ask for meaningful details of someone else's life, I would offer real info about myself. I created exactly the same problems that many commenters mentioned, about inappropriateness and trust. That being said, I still think that Mr. Boomer deserves some credit for thinking about how to have a conversation. He might have to temper his approach a little, but good conversation takes some effort, and at least he is trying.
3
Even in many parts of the US, your "big talk" questions would be regarded as rude when just getting to know someone. I prescribe a vacation in Minnesota for a reality check.
4
I have lived many years by this motto. But I find some people are scared off by this, even though I don't expect others to talk as freely as I do, I never hold back and say things that I actually feel. My own husband finds this side of me scary, he is never sure what will come out of my mouth.
I've been on dates like that. Felt like forced intimacy and made me very guarded. Small talk can lead naturally to deeper conversation, and there is a lot you can learn in small talk. It doesn't have to be boring.
4
Recently, my husband of 43 years reminded me of why he fell in love with me. He said, "You talked to me on our first date." Evidently, the other girls/women he dated were either shy or as he put it, "completely without intelligence: giddy, goofy or really quiet."
The interesting thing is I talk to everyone....strangers, cashiers, my 5 grandchildren and I tell them funny facts, we discuss food, politics, and our hopes and dreams (this mostly with the grandchildren).
My father once told me that I had the gift of gab and told me he was proud of me because he had always been very shy.
I do talk a lot and I make people smile, but I am working harder these days on listening. Because no matter how comfortable some of us are with our own chatter, there is a whole world of people to listen to and to learn from and maybe to help just by listening.
The interesting thing is I talk to everyone....strangers, cashiers, my 5 grandchildren and I tell them funny facts, we discuss food, politics, and our hopes and dreams (this mostly with the grandchildren).
My father once told me that I had the gift of gab and told me he was proud of me because he had always been very shy.
I do talk a lot and I make people smile, but I am working harder these days on listening. Because no matter how comfortable some of us are with our own chatter, there is a whole world of people to listen to and to learn from and maybe to help just by listening.
3
What's the rush of getting to the hard hitting questions if you don't even know the person's middle name? Seems disingenuous and shallow to me.
4
So what happened to the woman with the Italian lover and hubby back at the house? Tell, tell!
4
Thank you for this! I have always been frightened by small talk, but not by "big talk" - you've given me some authorization for this to be okay. Thanks.
Forget the author. I want to know more about the ménage à trois of the hitchhiker, her Italian and her husband.
2
Wait a minute! The hitchhiker madly in love brought her husband to the rendezvous with her long-lost lover and.....? Then what? We're waiting for a juicy story and get shunted into this tedious moan about small talk. I suggest the author go find that hitchhiker again and maybe just listen.
6
Trust? Doesnt that have a part in a meaningful relationship? And I, for one, want to feel some trust...reliability...beginning of a bond...before i feel comfortable 'opening up' to the degree this author seems to want - straight off. And how does that happen?.....through the slow minutae of small talk, the step-by-step dance of getting to know someone. During 'small talk' arent each of the participants paying attention, examing facial features and reactions, gauging the presence of humor (or, fini forever, the absence)....making the kind of small judgements that are critical building-relationship steps.
And, as an earlier poster noted....the whole business of how the hitchhiker was treated was bizarre bordering on cruel. If it was carried on in good humor, that would be one thing. But that isn't how our so-earnest author paints it.
And, as an earlier poster noted....the whole business of how the hitchhiker was treated was bizarre bordering on cruel. If it was carried on in good humor, that would be one thing. But that isn't how our so-earnest author paints it.
3
I appreciate the idealism of the writer. I appreciate the optimism. However, I have a feeling in the back of my mind that if in a romantic relationship with the writer, I'd always feel pushed for something grand or something extravagant. I get the feeling that I needed to be some ever existent source of entertainment for him - lest he be bored. Would the writer be able to handle the silences between himself and his partner? Could he be comfortable enough to merely exist and be present at times?
I like the idea of finding out fun things, deeper things about people, but sometimes a little 'small talk' can be comforting as well. Or, perhaps I'm just a bit more reserved. I don't know -- I just don't want to be pushed for entertainment.
I like the idea of finding out fun things, deeper things about people, but sometimes a little 'small talk' can be comforting as well. Or, perhaps I'm just a bit more reserved. I don't know -- I just don't want to be pushed for entertainment.
37
It seems to me that what the author is really talking about here is vulnerability, the most direct path to intimacy. Kudos to him for being brave enough to seek it out in others and bare his own soul as well. It might not be the safe choice, but for some of us, it's the only choice.
13
The author's idea of "real" talk is what used to be called "gossip" & the reason people resorted to discussing weather. Unfortunately social media have made gossip the lingua franca of our culture. :((
4
Because I'm a journalist, my poor dates had to endure a lot of big talk. Only one told me later that he felt like he was being interviewed. But if you ask the big questions, you have to be a good listener, too. That's where most of the failure occurs on dates ...
17
Why talk at all?
6
Hmmmm, the author sounds a lot like Tommy Wiseau from The Room.
"How was work today? How long does it take to get to the office? Anyway, how's your sex life?"
"How was work today? How long does it take to get to the office? Anyway, how's your sex life?"
2
In other cultures, people do not keep the same emotional distance from each other as they do in the US. I once heard my grandmother, who came to the US from the Ukraine in her 60s, observe that Americans will ask "how are you" as a greeting rather than as a real question. Typically there is one answer - "fine" or "ok." You ask "how are you" back to the person and typically get the same answer. This confounded her. If someone asks you a question like that, wouldn't they want a genuine answer and vice versa? In some cultures, yes. In the US, not so much. Personally, I like the writer's approach.
10
when I started to read you commend I thoght: you must have been speaking of Ukraine)) and I was right - if sb from Ukraine asks his aquaintance a simple question "how are you?", one has to be prepared to listen to a long response, which is actually much more amusing and informative as a standard small talk.
2
I'm not big on small talk as most of the time it is not interesting. Not because small talk topics are uninteresting but because most people's conversational skills are limited. A curious mind mated with perception and intelligence can and usually will be able to make anything interesting.
The other consideration here is the psycho emotional stasis of the two people conversing. Not much can be done about two shutdown individuals but for one of them to give voice to the situation. This immediately elevates everything leaving small talk behind or the one unable to handle real.
The other consideration here is the psycho emotional stasis of the two people conversing. Not much can be done about two shutdown individuals but for one of them to give voice to the situation. This immediately elevates everything leaving small talk behind or the one unable to handle real.
3
Small talk doesn't have to be inane. It's just a few steps of a dance that may (or may not) become a whirl around the floor or maybe even a tango. The pleasure is in each step and in finding out where it takes you.
I've had a handful of profoundly moving experiences of sharing or hearing deep material from complete strangers. What made it work, I think, is that we knew we'd never see each other again.
Sometimes what feels like an immediate connection of trust is revealed to have been a mistake, superficial, or misleading, and it's hard to walk back the level of intimacy you've already established by over-sharing. Reserve serves a real purpose.
I've had a handful of profoundly moving experiences of sharing or hearing deep material from complete strangers. What made it work, I think, is that we knew we'd never see each other again.
Sometimes what feels like an immediate connection of trust is revealed to have been a mistake, superficial, or misleading, and it's hard to walk back the level of intimacy you've already established by over-sharing. Reserve serves a real purpose.
24
I went to college in Seattle, where there is a thing called Seattle Freeze when newcomers have trouble making friends with the local population. I'm a quiet and shy person myself, but I realized I didn't make many deep connection with anyone on campus because all the conversations I've had were small talks. I felt so empty since I remember talking so much about classes or grades or other small details that I don't care anymore. I felt too awkward to ask personal questions to people who weren't friendly and they don't ask either so I felt rather sad.
11
I'm glad that one commenter (4Duckling) brought up cultural aspect. Another variable is one’s personality. As an introvert, (sometimes) I find small talk awkward and taxing whereas deeper conversations invigorate me.
17
a reply to . . .
our culture, due now to many unfortunate influences, is one of not engaging with strangers . . . this has become the norm . . . really . . . and small talk with an unknown? . . . forget it . . .
alone but not lonely in dallas texas William Wilson
our culture, due now to many unfortunate influences, is one of not engaging with strangers . . . this has become the norm . . . really . . . and small talk with an unknown? . . . forget it . . .
alone but not lonely in dallas texas William Wilson
After reading your thoughtful and beautifully-written essay, the question I have for you, Tim, is twofold. How old are you? And have you found your person? I am a 37 year-old woman living in Boston currently searching for hers. I believe that the purpose of communication is connection and there is no greater joy in life than a searching and connecting conversation that grows outward like the branches of a tree. Your deep questions, your friend's coconut: these are, at their heart, bids for connection. In the last year, as I've waded through the murky waters of online dating, what I've learned is that there are not many people who are able to both offer and accept such bids. I think that it requires a level of vulnerability that is rare, particularly among men. Sharing your self, and asking others to share theirs; that is such a gift. If you're curious and searching, as I am, I'd welcome a reply. But if not, I wish you the best of luck and happiness in your relationships.
13
Ironically we know nothing about you after reading this thing!
14
Well, she does say she's a she, and is 37 and lives in Boston :)
my comment above is the for the author not for the lovely Ms Jesse Danielle.
I work late into the night sometimes but love to go out for fine dining right afterwards. I'm also not afraid to dine alone in expensive restaurants meant for couples on their date nights or celebrating their special occasion. Over the years, I've learned to fine tune my hearing from the background noises to the dialogues of interests. I can tell by their laughter that it was their first date or not. Here, happiness has many faces. The most meaningful ones, interestingly enough, are the ones that have fewer words, more intense eye contacts, more pauses or "Sounds of Silence," if you will, more body language than small-talk lip motions, more sipping of the wines than devouring the main course, more telepathy than feigned empathy. It was as if the entire room is in black and white except for the other person across from the table. It's not that small talk is bad, but it is too often fired in rapid processions such that there is not enough space and time for two humans to communicate meaningfully, particularly the language of love. Here, words are usually insufficient, and time has no dimension. Then I go home to my wife and kids where there are no time nor space, to reality.
10
It's all small talk. People babble on these days, saying very very little. Silence is golden.
10
This is a cultural thing. I find, as an immigrant, that Americans engage in small talk a lot more than in the country in which I was born. But then again, we simply didn't really talk to people we'd just happened upon, like on the bus. We just didn't really talk to people we did not know well, other than saying hello. By the time you started to talk to someone, you would already have known them on some deeper level.
So, one of the great big struggles I have is how to make small talk like an American.
So, one of the great big struggles I have is how to make small talk like an American.
58
I would turn it around and say anyone who gave me a dirty coconut on a first date - knowing full well the struggle I'd have to endure to get at the sweet innards - wouldn't be marriage material. Cute screening tactic though.
3
Who said the coconut was dirty? Who said you had to open it yourself? I'd think it was charming and would indicate a person who had a sense of humor. I'd think life with such a guy might be a fun adventure or at least worth another date.
Again this is just a great screening device.
Again this is just a great screening device.
1
Really? Ted Bundy may have liked coconuts for all any of us know.
How well do you know yourself? How could you possibly know everything about another? We're always changing. Curiosity lends itself to presence, allows Eros to infuse the moment and energize sex and love. Curiosity, big and small...
2
Too much telling, not enough showing. If this is modern love, thank God I'm old.
12
I do agree in principle with people who are saying, "Oh, gak--small talk is fine! Forcing people to get profound immediately is obnoxious!" BUT, I do think the bigger point is that when you're failing to segue the smaller talk into something deeper, something is amiss, and it's good to look for a way to make a realer connection. I would hate for someone to ask me to bare my soul immediately, but if the alternative is spending a literal hour on commute times and the weather, maybe I'd take it?
35
It depends. Some of the questions sound like the pretentious interview questions many of the high tech know-it-alls are asking.
10
When I read the title of the piece, I thought, 'Yeah! Exactly!' but after I finished reading the piece, I wasn't as enthusiastic. It seems as though this strategy is not necessarily helping the author get truly closer to anyone. For example, the girl at the party - sounds like both of you had a great time, but there's no mention that you liked her more than you did before, or had she not moved away you would have seen her again. So you kissed at the end. Did that mean something to you? How did you feel? The premise in this piece is inspiring, but depth is still lacking, even though depth seems to be the aim.
10
Small talk comes very naturally to many people because they possess very shallow minds. Uproar? Not if Political Correctness is dumped and reality takes over. As for a woman who seeks a meeting with her 'Dream Lover' while her husband is in tow - as a man I am just horrified. I suppose he would prepare a supper for them when they are satiated by mutual desire. People like this are more than capable of small talk. Anything else would be a mystery.
2
I'm a private person. Until I develop a modicum of trust, you're not going to know anything deep about me.
25
In Louisiana we ask ,Who 's your Mama ? ,Who's your Papa ? , and can you cook a roux?
7
It's not so much the content (weather, commuting time, etc.) as to how it's presented. Give me someone with a creative mind and a love for the English language, and I'll happily listen to pretty much anything.
17
"Sometimes" seems to me the key word. Sometimes I've gone beyond small talk and felt helped someone get past something and we were both glad for the moment. But sometimes it has led to tears in what I thought would be a mildly interesting conversations and I was sorry I engaged. There are a lot of people walking around right on the edge. These moments always seemed cathartic for them, but sometimes I just wanted to get back to my book and asked myself what was wrong with me I couldn't stick to small talk? On one occasion I remember practically dragging my gf out of a restaurant because she didn't seem to realize that the man she had gone beyond small talk with at a communal table was about to explode into violence over his broken heart. As for Mr. Boomer's broken heart - this may sound mean, but - get over it and try to be happy. Sometimes, particularly when you are young you fall for someone and usually (hopefully) it is great fun. But, sometimes you get your heart broken too. When it happens you have to give yourself a few weeks (two is my number) to burden your poor friends with it (and vise versa), but then you have to try and move on even if she/he is still there in your head for a while. Or, if you are sticking, get over it. Hopefully, you find the right person. We all love a good conversation, but if you are lucky, it's probably mostly small talk the rest of your life.
5
I think you fall into talking about so-called "Deep Subjects" through smaller ones. I always think people who immediately undertake the huge subjects seem very self-conscious, which makes me self-conscious and a little impatient -- just seems so socially awkward.
Odd, this idea that there's a "divide" between the profound and the trivial....
Reminds me of the guys in my small east coast liberal arts college who used to play guitar with their dorm door open.
Besides people who take themselves too seriously are deadly....
Odd, this idea that there's a "divide" between the profound and the trivial....
Reminds me of the guys in my small east coast liberal arts college who used to play guitar with their dorm door open.
Besides people who take themselves too seriously are deadly....
8
You're like that person who has just 'discovered' that great new diet... that great new coffee shop... that great new gym... and refuses to her what other people are really saying when they nod their heads at your story
7
Does anyone else find it disturbing that this bunch required a woman who obviously needed a ride to sing a song and tell a story before they'd help her out? The impulse behind that would have made a great topic for some big talk.
27
Thank you, abr126! Disturbed me, too. If, as another commenter noted, the travelers had made it clear to the hitch-hiker that they would give her a ride regardless of her compliance with their light-hearted request, that is one thing. But the author does not reassure us on this point, and his failure to tell us the ending of her seemingly appalling story makes me fear that she was indeed viewed merely as a broken-radio replacement and essay interest point. If that is the case, then it makes a sad sort of sense that he would be impatient with cautious small talk.
1
Silence is as important as conversation. I always advise couples to take a long, difficult vacation together before they commit to long-term cohabitation or marriage. Ideally, the trip will involve long car rides, faulty navigation, language difficulties, awful weather, at least one flat tire, and extended periods of silence. Comfortable and companionable silence, one hopes. After reading this essay, I suspect that I wouldn't last even one evening in the writer's company, or that of his pushy, nosy friends.
There's a thin line between asking "big questions" and being rudely intrusive. You pick up a hitchhiker and make her entertain you with personal details of her life (and a song!) as the price for the ride? Yikes. Small talk exists to warm people up, to make them feel safe in your company. It's good manners to start slow. Conversation can be like like dancing, fencing or chess, depending on one's objective. You advance, and take note of the other person's response. They either thrust or retreat, join in or repel. Your gauge your next move by their last play. Do you really want to put a potential friend or lover in check so soon?
I've attended workshops where we played silly parlor games, like staring into another person's eyes and telling that stranger something deeply personal, asking them to do the same. It always feels false, and rather icky. Something to regret the next day. Better to tell a joke, I think. Or offer a compliment. One step at a time, slowly.
There's a thin line between asking "big questions" and being rudely intrusive. You pick up a hitchhiker and make her entertain you with personal details of her life (and a song!) as the price for the ride? Yikes. Small talk exists to warm people up, to make them feel safe in your company. It's good manners to start slow. Conversation can be like like dancing, fencing or chess, depending on one's objective. You advance, and take note of the other person's response. They either thrust or retreat, join in or repel. Your gauge your next move by their last play. Do you really want to put a potential friend or lover in check so soon?
I've attended workshops where we played silly parlor games, like staring into another person's eyes and telling that stranger something deeply personal, asking them to do the same. It always feels false, and rather icky. Something to regret the next day. Better to tell a joke, I think. Or offer a compliment. One step at a time, slowly.
143
No kidding the request of the hitchhiker to sing you a song was really icky.
To the writer of this article ... I was more curious about her love interest and her husband than your own story ...
To the writer of this article ... I was more curious about her love interest and her husband than your own story ...
8
They only asked for a story. The hitchhiker could have told them anything at all, but chose to make it big and personal because she thought it was so great.
4
And then maybe she was putting them on. I know many who would do that. I've done it myself.
2
THE ART OF CONVERSATION
When played, publicly or privately, by skilled contestants, it stimulates, comforts, and entertains. It needs no microchips, batteries, cards, balls, or boards, and it never wears outs. It is the favorite game played by women and men around the world: flirting.
Communications scholar Dr. Gerald Phillips explains: “When two dogs meet they sniff each other in order to decide what their relationship will be…People do their sniffing through some very highly structured communication exchanges.”
Flirting is like fly-casting—often you must cast more than once to get a bite. Remember to practice SOFTEN (smile, open posture with uncrossed arms, forward lean, touch, eye contact, nod).
Induce conversation by tossing ideas that provoke more than a responsive nibble. The weather is a boring subject. Hazy remarks about high humidity and dropping barometric pressure chill a conversation. Your diet is another topic about as tantalizing as last week’s iceberg lettuce.
Neither speech tics (“you know?” “right?” “listen” “um” “I mean” “like I said”) nor a persistent scowl is endearing.
An air of superiority stirs up resentment. Snobs lose in the flirting game. Interrupting and dominating the conversation are also violations.
When played, publicly or privately, by skilled contestants, it stimulates, comforts, and entertains. It needs no microchips, batteries, cards, balls, or boards, and it never wears outs. It is the favorite game played by women and men around the world: flirting.
Communications scholar Dr. Gerald Phillips explains: “When two dogs meet they sniff each other in order to decide what their relationship will be…People do their sniffing through some very highly structured communication exchanges.”
Flirting is like fly-casting—often you must cast more than once to get a bite. Remember to practice SOFTEN (smile, open posture with uncrossed arms, forward lean, touch, eye contact, nod).
Induce conversation by tossing ideas that provoke more than a responsive nibble. The weather is a boring subject. Hazy remarks about high humidity and dropping barometric pressure chill a conversation. Your diet is another topic about as tantalizing as last week’s iceberg lettuce.
Neither speech tics (“you know?” “right?” “listen” “um” “I mean” “like I said”) nor a persistent scowl is endearing.
An air of superiority stirs up resentment. Snobs lose in the flirting game. Interrupting and dominating the conversation are also violations.
4
"The weather is a boring subject."
This is why we need lots more tornadoes.
This is why we need lots more tornadoes.
While I appreciate meaningful conversation quite a lot, I do not agree that "big talk" must be about "feelings" such as this piece infers.
When someone asks me: "How are you feeling?" or "How does that make you feel?" ... my answers are hot, cold, tired, hungry, etc.
The pressure to have strong, passionate feelings about innocuous elements does nothing but create lies inside our own heads.
#feelingsareforlosers
When someone asks me: "How are you feeling?" or "How does that make you feel?" ... my answers are hot, cold, tired, hungry, etc.
The pressure to have strong, passionate feelings about innocuous elements does nothing but create lies inside our own heads.
#feelingsareforlosers
It doesn't sound much different from the Arons model of 36 questions to make people fall in love....http://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/hlg-36-questions-can-make-two.... This is so schematic that the woman in the bus in Costa Rica would have run away from this guy as fast and as far as she could. Really, do we need a linguistic roadmap or algorithm to fall in love?
1
The need for small talk comes from fear: people are afraid to talk to each other. But then again, that depends on the culture. At the March on Washington, there was very little small talk. People were ALIVE and The Future was a very REAL likelihood.
I learned early in life that if you wanted to find the best friends, you went into your Heart, not your Fear. In Black culture, we just say, 'keep it real.' So our 'filters' are much less ingrained than in White America. This is not a critique of White America, just an observation: the culture back in the '60s was much more conducive to the sentiments of the song by The Youngbloods song, 'Get Together', "Come on people now/ smile on your brother/everybody get together/and try to love one another right now." It was a good time, and, in other countries, as written by a poster about Finland, that still exists. But Americans have been taught 'boundaries,' and along with those boundaries are constricted emotional straitjackets. In other countries I've been to, that doesn't happen, particularly in Australia or Kenya. People come right up and start talking to me, asking what 'tribe' I'm from (I'm mixed race). Back to America and it's the ol' "don't ask. Don't speak." No wonder what passes for "Love" takes on undertones of "the creep who tried to talk to me," as I hear from others. People are afraid of each other. Without Fear, Love - of any kind: friendship, romantic, platonic, Agape - would blossom easily. And much faster.
I learned early in life that if you wanted to find the best friends, you went into your Heart, not your Fear. In Black culture, we just say, 'keep it real.' So our 'filters' are much less ingrained than in White America. This is not a critique of White America, just an observation: the culture back in the '60s was much more conducive to the sentiments of the song by The Youngbloods song, 'Get Together', "Come on people now/ smile on your brother/everybody get together/and try to love one another right now." It was a good time, and, in other countries, as written by a poster about Finland, that still exists. But Americans have been taught 'boundaries,' and along with those boundaries are constricted emotional straitjackets. In other countries I've been to, that doesn't happen, particularly in Australia or Kenya. People come right up and start talking to me, asking what 'tribe' I'm from (I'm mixed race). Back to America and it's the ol' "don't ask. Don't speak." No wonder what passes for "Love" takes on undertones of "the creep who tried to talk to me," as I hear from others. People are afraid of each other. Without Fear, Love - of any kind: friendship, romantic, platonic, Agape - would blossom easily. And much faster.
12
Maybe because I'm a northern European and used to go quite swiftly to some deeper conversation, but I always feel that Americans appear to be a bit shocked when I do this. Did I get too close too soon? Some 'revelations' about myselve seem to be too blunt, often. I keep doing it, coz that's the only way I know how to avoid tiring chit chat and there's always the forgivingness of being a "stranger"
But: I do feel some small talk is needed as a starting point, but you guys are too good in it.
But: I do feel some small talk is needed as a starting point, but you guys are too good in it.
If you're northern European, you're from a much smaller country with a somewhat more homogeneous culture (yes, I know the homogeneity is changing, but more recently than here). I think it's partly the diversity here that ingrained the habit of keeping strangers a bit at a distance until you get to know them better. Within subgroups, people may be more direct and get to the point more quickly.
Which doesn't help you much, does it? But might be a partial explanation.
Which doesn't help you much, does it? But might be a partial explanation.
I always thought "hello, how are you?" a bit rude and silly. I'm somewhat used to it now and it is like "nice day, ain't it?"
Americans love to talk about family, money and cars to no end and I like to talk about sex with the same kind of gusto. So there we have a huge problem as 'you guys' hate to mention the unmentionable.
Americans love to talk about family, money and cars to no end and I like to talk about sex with the same kind of gusto. So there we have a huge problem as 'you guys' hate to mention the unmentionable.
"Although my husband came too; he's back at the house" What?? I want to know more about this story within the story - left at such an intriguing unresolved moment while demonstrating the author's contention about the benefits of skipping the small talk.
4
If anyone gave me 'conditions' for a hitch-ride, I would wave them on. Which is exactly what I did in Germany, at a vacation cottage on a small island in the Spree River. My host and his friends said the same thing: "Sing us a song or we won't continue talking to you." I got up, said goodbye and got on the ferry to the mainland. Same thing for millenniums, who arrive for the evening with a list written on their shirt cuffs, of talking points indicative of intellectual curiosity. Conversation flows like a river; sometimes fast, sometimes slowly. Sometimes deep. But, never boring - - if you enjoy your companions and no one is trying to impress.
9
The boorishness and tediousness of relentless earnestness and forced intimacy ensure that the writer will probably become one of those men profiled earlier this week who reach late middle age and wonder "What happened?"
9
This works because most of us are dying to talk about ourselves, and we rarely get the opportunity to share our deepest thoughts. The surprise at being asked such personal questions is quickly eclipsed by the excitement of answering them. You'll find that people learn so much about themselves through sharing, and they'll want to know even more about you afterward. I hope this piece serves to encourage people to take conversational risks!
3
I guess Mr. Boomer isn't familiar with "Chekov's gun".
If he isn't, his editor should be.
"One must never place a loaded rifle on the stage if it isn't going to go off. It's wrong to make promises you don't mean to keep."
The hitch hiker in this story is the rifle.
Mr. Boomer didn't keep his implicit promise.
If he isn't, his editor should be.
"One must never place a loaded rifle on the stage if it isn't going to go off. It's wrong to make promises you don't mean to keep."
The hitch hiker in this story is the rifle.
Mr. Boomer didn't keep his implicit promise.
18
Small talk is only the platform, it's the pauses between the words, the tone, the eyes, that tell you the most. The best small talk happens in lineups, on buses, on cold blustery days or perfect, dreamy summer mid-mornings. It's a bridge, an outreaching. In a formal setting it's harder, heavy ... the exchanging of credients before the name is even given or asked . The best small talk is weather, it prrobably has been since the beginning of human language.
6
Standard 1st world, eat, pray, love garbage. Who are you that I should be immediately intimate with you?
8
"Who are you that I should be immediately intimate with you?" This article is about dating, which often leads to marriage. It's not about just some person you meet at the bus stop.
2
Communication is about a lot more than the words. It's the vibe, the smile in the eyes, the presence or absence of tension. Small talk gives you a chance to sense the 'presence' of the other person. Small talk is a skill that not everyone has.
I am one of those people who at least formerly preferred deep talk about real issues. I regard this as an inadequacy that I repaired with the benefit of time and long experience. Now, I'd rather get to know someone on a deeper level who was at least capable of relaxing and laughing about little things first.
I am one of those people who at least formerly preferred deep talk about real issues. I regard this as an inadequacy that I repaired with the benefit of time and long experience. Now, I'd rather get to know someone on a deeper level who was at least capable of relaxing and laughing about little things first.
7
Since nobody else brought it up yet: Larry David on Curb Your Enthusiasm "replaced small talk with medium talk" by asking the stranger next to him at a dinner party, "How often do you and your wife have sex?" Followed by much outrage by other dinner guests. Very funny
4
God, I hope I never get stuck in an elevator with this guy.
13
I think it was Woody Allen who commented that people in California have false intimacy, they'll tell you anything about themselves - the color of their aura, how many times they orgasm - but never invite you over to their house. This author sounds like he's trying to become Californian.
7
All you have to do is not have coffee, dinner or a drink with your date. Take your date to an art museum, on an urban hike, or other adventure and the deep conversation will flow as you react to and take in the surroundings.
11
Good idea...the trip to the art museum. If conversation dwindles, though, maybe bring a coconut along.
3
Scary! Young things, ever heard of philosophy?
I can't even imagine the world this writer describes, and I feel very sad, and sadly enlightened, if that is the world most young things think they life in now. Seems like they are all struggling to escape from some "small talk" algorithm defining their identities.
But the supposedly "external" author's view or POV is not very self-conscious or encouraging. Dismal science...
I can't even imagine the world this writer describes, and I feel very sad, and sadly enlightened, if that is the world most young things think they life in now. Seems like they are all struggling to escape from some "small talk" algorithm defining their identities.
But the supposedly "external" author's view or POV is not very self-conscious or encouraging. Dismal science...
1
Tim you write very well, so why are you wasting your life as an actuary - easily the most boring job in the world (I know I was a consulting actuary for three incredibly boring years). Study theoretical physics, write about science and the world. Do anything but continue as an actuary.
3
Small talk: an opportunity to convey and receive the infinite subtleties of atttiude and expression without turning the other person away, or accepting him/her into one/s heart, with insufficient subtle information.
6
I've been married for 27 years. Every morning, my wife and I have coffee and a conversation. Know what we talk about? Mostly... what we might do that day, something we read about in the NYT, something a friend said. Small talk. Now and then of course, small talks turns to deep talk. Those times are important, of course. But if we were required to dredge the bottoms of our souls every morning? Guess what? There's not enough down there in the great depths to find. We're just not that deep. Nobody's that deep! Relax. Talk about the kids. Talk about the weather. Smell the coffee.
6
One of the things that sparked my interest in my husband, and ultimately held my attention, was his ability from day one to initiate and explore the big topics and questions. It is a reflection of his curious mind and perceptive nature. I loved the big talk; it put me at ease and made me feel like I mattered.
4
I'm glad if Mr. Boomer finds his life more fulfilling since his new policy, but this article sounds rather too much like the kind of self-improvement nonsense pre ding our society. "We will discover deeper and more meaningful lives if we just do X." I suspect a lot of people will actually be happier if they just stopped trying to find ways to fix or improve their lives in this kind of pseudo-spiritual way.
2
this is the first time I've really enjoyed reading this column. evidently you don't have to delve into politics or sex or religion to have big, if contentious, conversation.
2
I'm also anti small-talk, but going on a date with this guy sounds like the worst aspects of a new-age style job interview.
11
If someone spoke to me like they were a piece on NPR--the way this mini-essay is written--I'd be hugely turned off. "So there are a couple of thirty something researchers at the University of Glasgow--he's in NeuroPhysics, she's in CyberGenetics-- with some pretty compelling research showing that, contrary to how a lot of us behave, the majority of happy couples actually eschewed small talk in the early innings in favor of the 'Go big or go home,' approach to dating.Wanna give it a try?" In the end, doesn't it all just come down to being charming?
15
Or empathetic.
2
What a wonderful and eye-opening story. I am going to adopt your idea. No more mitigated speech for me. Life is too short to beat around the bush. I think I just encountered one of those forks in the road.
7
Out here in the hinterlnds, I consider myself lucky if the first five minutes goes by without mention of a recently dead husband.
12
BarBarBarAnn: Move to the city, where health services are readily available. More husbands survive when an ambulance can reach them within three minutes.
This article felt so slimy, but I immediately enjoyed the comments, especially Boomer's from Middletown.
I am still a hopeless romantic: no formula for love, no how-to guide. Love is traumatic. It happens to you. Anyone who can give you "something beautiful" when asked about falling in love is immediately suspect. The most "authentic" sign of love is someone who sounds like an idiot, can't collect his thoughts and so on.
Also, as much as I hate small talk, don't be so sure that there isn't as much (or even more) performance and ritual in discussion of the "big" questions/topics. That is where we really act, when answering questions like "what are you passionate about." Not that I have anything against acting, which can be more "real" than your "real" self.
The whole piece reads like the author is trying to convince himself of something, but I'm not sure what. Who knows, but it's the same language and "knowledge of self" talk I hear everywhere today. Or maybe his boss just told him to write something mushy for people who don't want to read the NYT' already non-critical soft reporting of actual occurrences going on in the world.
I am still a hopeless romantic: no formula for love, no how-to guide. Love is traumatic. It happens to you. Anyone who can give you "something beautiful" when asked about falling in love is immediately suspect. The most "authentic" sign of love is someone who sounds like an idiot, can't collect his thoughts and so on.
Also, as much as I hate small talk, don't be so sure that there isn't as much (or even more) performance and ritual in discussion of the "big" questions/topics. That is where we really act, when answering questions like "what are you passionate about." Not that I have anything against acting, which can be more "real" than your "real" self.
The whole piece reads like the author is trying to convince himself of something, but I'm not sure what. Who knows, but it's the same language and "knowledge of self" talk I hear everywhere today. Or maybe his boss just told him to write something mushy for people who don't want to read the NYT' already non-critical soft reporting of actual occurrences going on in the world.
17
Slimy??
Reading the comments here made me realize that some people like small talk; others like big talk. I think this strategy helps screen out the people you will be most compatible with in the long run. As for me, I loved the article and the writer's suggestions for topics.
9
I think big talk vs small talk on dating is not as important as a person learning how to truly articulate why the past relationships did not work.
And no "we grew apart" or "we should not get married or get together in the first place" or "she got pregnant or I got her pregnant" do not work.
My big topic question for this author is: Why did the relationship with ex fail?
and I am hoping he will not blame all of it on her.
And no "we grew apart" or "we should not get married or get together in the first place" or "she got pregnant or I got her pregnant" do not work.
My big topic question for this author is: Why did the relationship with ex fail?
and I am hoping he will not blame all of it on her.
I love conversations with strangers. Sometimes it's as easy as "Are you from here?" and it's off to the races.
10
Laura, Believe it or not, asking "Are you from here?" is now considered, and labeled, "Micro-Agression" on college campuses. Academics now define it as saying to the person so addressed: "You don't deserve to be here." You want to start a meaningful conversation in America? Start there. Incredible.
4
Ah. Well, I'm in Florida, land of snow birds and retirees, and not on a college campus. Sometimes it's "Yep! Never seen snow!" and sometimes I get an entire travelogue. You can usually tell by the expression on a person's face, how they're going to receive questions of this nature. I wouldn't ask just anyone.
1
In Finland, there is no such thing as small talk. Finns will stare at you, happily, in a silence most westerners will find unnerving. Then ( and not always field by alcohol) will begin the big questions. Bankers, Lawyers, Doctors, Artists, Plumbers, City Workers, the Unemplyed ask: "Do you like to pick mushrooms?" "Do you like to pick blueberries?" Hoe do you feel about the new bus route?"
Never would any one talk about the weather ( it is obvious) or ask what you do for a living ( that would be rude, and frankly, wouldn't occur to anyone). Because all the people listed above define themselves ( by and large) by forces outside their professions. They might, instead, define themselves on how many litres of blueberries they were lucky to have harvested on Saturday.
Never would any one talk about the weather ( it is obvious) or ask what you do for a living ( that would be rude, and frankly, wouldn't occur to anyone). Because all the people listed above define themselves ( by and large) by forces outside their professions. They might, instead, define themselves on how many litres of blueberries they were lucky to have harvested on Saturday.
80
(Looking up flights and apartments in Helsinki)
3
Talking about blueberries is a "big question?"
5
do you like to pick blueberries" is a wonderful question becuase it opens things up without forcing an intimacy.
While I understand that some obvious "small talk" is artificial, I think forcing the big stuff can be equally artificial. Letting a conversation flow organically is the best - you will probably hit all types of topics - high and low - as well as have a better time! Having every conversation have to have an objective sounds really tiresome.
205
I saw the suggestions as being more honest and real which seems less tiresome than the routine weather/commute small talk. Speaking from the heart without filtering seems much more natural.
1
I agree. I'm an introvert and am not really crazy about small talk, especially in a loud setting with lots of distractions. But I'm even more bothered by being put on the spot with "deep" questions from someone I don't know well. I'd much rather have the initial small talk lead organically into interesting discussions, regardless of what the discussions are about.
2
I ran across this definition of small talk a while ago and thought it was worth saving since I think it captures the word's essence perfectly.
Small talk: purposeless expressions of preference or aversions, accounts of irrelevant happenings, and comments on what is perfectly obvious
Small talk: purposeless expressions of preference or aversions, accounts of irrelevant happenings, and comments on what is perfectly obvious
13
This is awesome. I'm in Boston, can I be your friend too ?
2
But! but what of the American hitchhiker?!!
16
I like small small talk with the right person, so maybe its chemistry. And being "bien dans sa peau" is crucial., being well-read helps screen out the pretentious, and charm is all. And it isn't sexy to be needy...and its a gamble. Enjoy the ride !
5
Where is the follow up on the hitch hiker? My God... that story must have more to it.... as for Big Talk... well in my experience it usually means the woman has no secrets and expects you to have none as well... and a person without secrets... well they usually are either exhibitionits or very very dull... everyone needs their secrets
11
I understand your friend with the coconuts. It’s brilliant, really.
They’re rough and hard; it’s almost impossible to break through the shell. But if you can, without shattering the whole thing in the process, there are treasures inside.
Sustenance. Refreshment. All hidden below the surface. What a metaphor!
They’re rough and hard; it’s almost impossible to break through the shell. But if you can, without shattering the whole thing in the process, there are treasures inside.
Sustenance. Refreshment. All hidden below the surface. What a metaphor!
12
I definitely understand where the writer's coming from. Having a deep, personal exchange with someone almost always leads to a sense of connection, understanding and friendship. Small talk, at first encounter, bores me to tears. I tend to truly enjoy it only *after* the friend/relationship has been established. (Susan Cain, in her book "Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can't Stop Talking", attributed this characteristic to being an introvert). But unlike the writer, opening with big talk isn't my modus operandi. I think reading the other person, and subtle cues is very important. Not everyone wants to go so deep so fast. But I find that being sincere, warm and attentive almost guarantees the other person letting their guard down, and opening themselves up.
18
Life is short. Big talk is better than small. Good advice here.
5
I can't be sure if I am typical or not. I enjoyed reading this article, but when I meet strangers I like, I start asking personal questions. Family members have told me not to do this and not to give advice which I also often feel free enough to do. A better way to explain how I go about communicating is to say I 'pump' the stranger with questions, almost like a grown up kid or a journalist. I want to know more about them, and to see if I can advise them in any way. I do not recall anyone ever telling me mind your business, your question is too personal, on the contrary, people like the probing and personal questions. If I feel comfortable enough with them to ask the questions, we leave each other bonded in the sharing. People tell me all kinds of things, and I am always grateful for their confidence. I only small talk if I am forced too or discover the person is too closed to give me the information I ask that comes to mind to ask. I have been told I would make a good FBI or CIA agent, people respond very well and I have made many friends this way. Small talk, when I use it is, for those I am tiptoeing around for whatever reason and to be diplomatic if I sense the person has real (emotional) issues.
2
Tim: Just a thought - but maybe you have to earn the confidence and insight of your conversation partner. It's pretty presumptuous for you to believe that you're owed anything deeper than the surface details. There's a reason we don't all go pouring our hearts on a first date - some people don't deserve that kind of attention.
135
Profound questions put me to sleep. When I met the love of my life (after divorce, at age 59) on match dot com, we laughed so hard on our first date that my cheeks hurt. I can barely remember now anything we said except a discussion of awful names, but every topic was trivial.
Thank God we felt the same way about profundity.
-- That first date was nine years ago, and we've lived happily together since two months after we met.
And we still go for the little questions, not the big ones.
Thank God we felt the same way about profundity.
-- That first date was nine years ago, and we've lived happily together since two months after we met.
And we still go for the little questions, not the big ones.
60
I'm with you on that, and I have been with the same man for more than thirty years (married for most of it). Laughing together is how our slow-blooming friendship began, and through all of the love-hate cycling of romance and long-term marriage it's our being able to see (share) the humor in things that has kept us together.
1
I'm not one for small talk either, but some of the supposedly "deep" questions noted in the article strike me as shallow because they deal in superlatives that suggest the presumption of a life ordered by hierarchies: "What place most..." [hierarchy of place], "What's the most love..." [hierarchy of loves], "What work are you passionate..." [hierarchy of engagement]. I would not like to be interviewed in this way.
My own preference would be for a kind of small talk that is small by virtue of its attentions to subtlety and nuance (say, in the immediate surroundings) rather than its quotidianness: there's no depth to be found in "mosts"—life isn't a series of towers with all the good, deep stuff on top. I'll take small talk—nuanced observations of and questions about the little things all around us—over talk of "mosts" (that I don't have in any case) any day.
My own preference would be for a kind of small talk that is small by virtue of its attentions to subtlety and nuance (say, in the immediate surroundings) rather than its quotidianness: there's no depth to be found in "mosts"—life isn't a series of towers with all the good, deep stuff on top. I'll take small talk—nuanced observations of and questions about the little things all around us—over talk of "mosts" (that I don't have in any case) any day.
118
I think the word "quotidianness" is a neologism, which may be appropriate since this column is about innovation and creativity in terms of relationship-building, though I would argue with such a diction defense.
Perhaps I'm intruding. It's been 50 years since I dated, having wed in 1965. My husband, who didn't read this piece, giggled, when I asked him what he would discuss on a first date and then, perplexed by my unexpected question, but curious, quipped, "Why, are you going out?"
My expectations and conduct are surely outmoded, but since when have we been using the word "interview" in connection with enjoying a conversation with someone in whom we may develop a romantic interest?
Agreed that Tim Boomer seems to take a performance-oriented and archaeological view of dating, which I might find anywhere from odd to invasive, and do let's banish requests for superlatives as they turn the occasion into a competitive sport. A couple should be anticipating freedom and fun, not crafting a résumé or social-media profile.
Here's to measured, thoughtful sharing. Exclamation points can be used sparingly.
Perhaps I'm intruding. It's been 50 years since I dated, having wed in 1965. My husband, who didn't read this piece, giggled, when I asked him what he would discuss on a first date and then, perplexed by my unexpected question, but curious, quipped, "Why, are you going out?"
My expectations and conduct are surely outmoded, but since when have we been using the word "interview" in connection with enjoying a conversation with someone in whom we may develop a romantic interest?
Agreed that Tim Boomer seems to take a performance-oriented and archaeological view of dating, which I might find anywhere from odd to invasive, and do let's banish requests for superlatives as they turn the occasion into a competitive sport. A couple should be anticipating freedom and fun, not crafting a résumé or social-media profile.
Here's to measured, thoughtful sharing. Exclamation points can be used sparingly.
1
I must say this first: as an American man when traveling abroad looking for love, the last person I want to meet is an American woman traveling abroad looking for love.
As for the conversation... the best way (for me as an Ethnic American) where I am running up against huge negative stereotypes is to let the women see me over time (weeks, months) before moving forward. I ALWAYS strike out on blind dates as women are only comparing me at that point to an internal database. I am not in any Western woman's database. So I don't get second dates from blind dates. Plus such formal dating as such lacks context and authenticity.
As for the conversation... the best way (for me as an Ethnic American) where I am running up against huge negative stereotypes is to let the women see me over time (weeks, months) before moving forward. I ALWAYS strike out on blind dates as women are only comparing me at that point to an internal database. I am not in any Western woman's database. So I don't get second dates from blind dates. Plus such formal dating as such lacks context and authenticity.
5
So what exactly is an "Ethnic American"? Native American?
4
The best plan is to mix it up. A little small talk and then to the important stuff. For me, a long time ago, it was always politics.
4
I love this article. I will absolutely employ your approach into my own dating life and expect some great results.
5
One of the ironies here is that it is a problem that this man takes himself and his dating strategy too seriously. At the ripe age of 27 he was "taught how to love". What was he doing from, say, 10 to 27? After his surfing jaunt he is still mourning. What happened to Abby, "one woman in our group"? Was she not a delightful distraction from the probably inevitable loss of Alejandra? Far from going deep and serious I would recommend lightening up. Ever hear that if you miss one bus there will be another one along soon! Another clue to a problem relationship is when someone uses the word "bored" while driving with friends, because the radio was broken. I thought this was the guy who could come up with deep conversations!
103
Surely it's possible to discover a lot about someone by being interested, thoughtful and natural, which doesn't require going big, for example, as Miles found out when he asked Maya "Why are you into wine?" Of course, when you get a reply like that, you have to make a move, conversationally speaking.
4
What's "big" and why? Everyone will have a different answer to that. I know any number of people are very skilled at talking about the deepest and most profound issues. Deep and profound to them maybe. To others it can seem like self-absorbed rambling. And the "small" issues are sometimes the social lubricant that can lead to deeper dialogue. "Small" isn't necessarily bad, and "Big" isn't necessarily good. Oh, and that hitchhiker was a nut case if ever there was one.
32
Be careful what you wish for. Asking for that kind exposure to someone's humanity might not give you the answer you're expecting, especially right from the start like that. I have a sad and humiliating backstory that I came to terms with a long time ago, but some people think it's fascinating. It can yield an interesting anecdote but inevitably people regret they asked about it. I also think it's pretty arrogant to demand someone's trust with probing but flippant questions, without having earned it.
14
I was always big believer in content-heavy communication and was frequently surprised how much people would reveal when you ask direct questions nicely. After all, having someone pay attention to you is gratifying, right? But then I learned a valuable lesson - when someone, not too kind of heart, asked me a lot of direct questions and I heard myself revealing things I came to regret. I realized there is a big difference between sharing and prying. Just because people participate in 'big talk' does not mean it is welcomed or enjoyed. These things should happen organically and bigger things will come with trust. Sometimes the most revealing conversations are simply about nothing at all.
18
Actuary...I'm thinkin' "not too good at understanding the more subtle aspects of communication." Words ain't the whole story. A conversation is an invitation to gain greater understanding of another. If they don't yet want to let you in, for whatever the reasons, prying becomes rudeness. If someone takes you up on your invitation to go "big", then you're off and running. If they don't, they don't. Move on.
My (now) wife and I spent quite some time testing each other after our first few dates playing pool and other rather stayed activities. I accepted her invitation and she mine. She, an artist, chose a gallery for my first test. We discussed, wait for it,...art. Why we like or disliked certain pieces. What feelings the works communicated to us...big. "I just do" wasn't an acceptable response.
We went on a day long tandem bicycle ride for one of my tests for her. Eighteen year later, we're still together and helping each other maintain happiness.
Short version: Discovering the edge of comfort zones is a good thing to do before committing to life together...but figuring out if "life together" is even worth considering is a necessary first step.
My (now) wife and I spent quite some time testing each other after our first few dates playing pool and other rather stayed activities. I accepted her invitation and she mine. She, an artist, chose a gallery for my first test. We discussed, wait for it,...art. Why we like or disliked certain pieces. What feelings the works communicated to us...big. "I just do" wasn't an acceptable response.
We went on a day long tandem bicycle ride for one of my tests for her. Eighteen year later, we're still together and helping each other maintain happiness.
Short version: Discovering the edge of comfort zones is a good thing to do before committing to life together...but figuring out if "life together" is even worth considering is a necessary first step.
5
As bread and butter notes, the art of writing a letter (not an email) table etiquette, small talk have all gone in to the trash bin. People have no table manners (bringing cells to a dinner- if you are so bored, stay home and keep your own company which must be "real authentic"). No wonder there ate 30-40 somethings wandering about in a daze why they are still single, because they are so "authentic" and interesting... in their own minds.
4
41 year old single mom, divorced 3 years ago
I find the mechanisms and architecture of modern dating so artificial its no wonder actual meet ups are superficial and shallow. Call me old school, but 20 years ago, going on a date was the organic next step to meeting someone. Conversations were therefore real, without effort.
I find the mechanisms and architecture of modern dating so artificial its no wonder actual meet ups are superficial and shallow. Call me old school, but 20 years ago, going on a date was the organic next step to meeting someone. Conversations were therefore real, without effort.
1
I thought that whole chit-chat problem was solved by cable TV.
(And particularly by CNN.)
(And particularly by CNN.)
2
Ok, I will cop to it, but that's how I go through life. I ask big questions, I open up, and surprisingly, people open back up too. It's amazing how lonely we are under our facades.
The irony is that I almost did NOT do this with my now husband. Why? I didn't think I was interested....because, well he was too handsome. I just did not think someone that good looking would have anything interesting to say to me.
So on our first date (one that I almost cancelled) we made small talk until he asked me "Why is a girl like you still single?" And because I was not looking to impress him, I answered "Because the guy I wanted to marry me dumped me." Which was the absolute most awesome thing I could have said......
.....because he then told me how he had just been dumped too.
So we chatted about our broken relationships. What had gone wrong, what had worked. I had zero impulse to impress him and therefore was brutally candid and transparent; and in return, he did the same. At the end of the night--after talking like old friends for the latter part of two hours-- I pecked him on the cheek and sent him on his way. When I laid my head back down on my pillow I thought "I just made a new friend!!
Then, contemplating our recent dramas, I also thought "I need this guy as a boyfriend like I need a hole in the head. But he's nice so who could I fix him up with?"
Me, as it turns out.
Two dates later we could not keep our hands off each other.
Twenty years later, still going strong.
The irony is that I almost did NOT do this with my now husband. Why? I didn't think I was interested....because, well he was too handsome. I just did not think someone that good looking would have anything interesting to say to me.
So on our first date (one that I almost cancelled) we made small talk until he asked me "Why is a girl like you still single?" And because I was not looking to impress him, I answered "Because the guy I wanted to marry me dumped me." Which was the absolute most awesome thing I could have said......
.....because he then told me how he had just been dumped too.
So we chatted about our broken relationships. What had gone wrong, what had worked. I had zero impulse to impress him and therefore was brutally candid and transparent; and in return, he did the same. At the end of the night--after talking like old friends for the latter part of two hours-- I pecked him on the cheek and sent him on his way. When I laid my head back down on my pillow I thought "I just made a new friend!!
Then, contemplating our recent dramas, I also thought "I need this guy as a boyfriend like I need a hole in the head. But he's nice so who could I fix him up with?"
Me, as it turns out.
Two dates later we could not keep our hands off each other.
Twenty years later, still going strong.
19
I find people who shun small talk to be tiresome and needy and generally bad, emotionally unhealthy prospects for a relationship. My husband happens to be excellent at small talk, and I've always appreciated it. Good small talk is a gift; seemingly effortless, selfless commentary on topical subjects that allows everyone to participate without feeling needlessly vulnerable or awkward. Obviously close relationships should consist of more openness/honesty than this when appropriate, but as someone who attends or hosts at least one dinner or lunch party per week with a mix of friends, acquaintances, and strangers, a charming polite conversationalist is always a hit.
Making polite conversation is work, no doubt about it, and it is GOOD work that serves those around you. Spilling one's guts, on the other hand, with no regard for the impact your tales might have on the mood of the party, is selfish and not particularly difficult, contrary to the notion that raw honesty should always be appreciated.
Shortcuts to intimacy rarely work, whether it be physical intimacy or emotional intimacy. You can't hurry love.
Making polite conversation is work, no doubt about it, and it is GOOD work that serves those around you. Spilling one's guts, on the other hand, with no regard for the impact your tales might have on the mood of the party, is selfish and not particularly difficult, contrary to the notion that raw honesty should always be appreciated.
Shortcuts to intimacy rarely work, whether it be physical intimacy or emotional intimacy. You can't hurry love.
64
This has always been my policy, and it works very well. It feels really great to open up about yourself from the get-go, to be totally honest about your flaws and fears, and it allows the other person to do the same. The deeper the discussion, the more enlightening about the person, and even if not a match romantically (or even a consideration), it is really nice to get to know people on a deeper level.
1
The real art is not so much whether the talk is "big" or "small," but whether a person has the ability to listen and react to what the other person is saying. Many of us are "talkers" but we drone on and on without drawing the other person into the conversation.
10
Big talk? Nowadays it's a bit of a risk. Acquaintances, fiends. friend's spouses or my students sometimes ask legitimate big questions - good, appropriate questions - and yet I often hesitate (or refuse) to answer.
Why? Because we live in the age of social media. Choosing to share one of life's "big moments" with one person may result in that person's sharing it throughout the Facebook/Instagram/Snapchat universe.
Some things should remain singularly personal.
Why? Because we live in the age of social media. Choosing to share one of life's "big moments" with one person may result in that person's sharing it throughout the Facebook/Instagram/Snapchat universe.
Some things should remain singularly personal.
3
This article was so refreshing to read. For someone currently dating I think I might try this out. The small talk bores me anyways. The one thing is I was waiting to learn more about the hitchhiker's story. Where did she leave off?
3
If you like small talk, that's great. If you don't but/and don't want to ask overly prying questions, I've found that asking about someone's peak experiences and sources of happiness can be as meaningful and disclosing and less intimidating as talking about challenges
Though of course I love 'big talk,' sometimes I'm enchanted by small talk. I love using my detective hat to uncover who a person is by their responses to small talk question. For example (try this with people you know well!) when asked about the weather, an analytical mind may reply with something like, "it's 75° and sunny," whereas a promoter might just say, "it's gorgeous today! Did you see the clouds earlier?" Humans are fascinating.
3
I remember hitchhiking in Australia with a man I met on an archaeological dig in France who came to visit me after I finished my PhD and was figuring out what to do with my life. Every ride my friend made up one fabulous story after another. None of them true. I hope our kind drivers enjoyed our stories. They probably would not have believed the truth.
4
Everyone has a story, and I am always eager to find out what it is.
4
Me too!
It makes sense, I think, to ask a few big questions on a first date. I've been on several dates where small talk predominated, and then the goodbye kiss felt perfunctory and staged. We make small talk and aimless chatter all day. If you really want to know someone better, you have to ask better questions. Give the person you're on a date a bit more thought than you do new coworkers or people in line. Ask the small things, but maybe once or twice, ask them an event or situation made them feel. We often forget events in our lives in their entirety, but we rarely forget how people make us feel.
4
My son once asked me (he was in high school at the time) about helping him with meeting and befriending girls in school. This is what I told him: greet her, lead with your name, tell her who you are. Ask for permission to join (sit, stand, walk) with her. Ask her her name. Repeat her name. Make a joke or a humorous remark, get her to laugh or smile. Invite her to speak, then listen and respond honestly as if it is the most fascinating thing you ever heard. Friendship will grow out of that.
It is not the big talk or small talk, it's the listening with interest that matters.
It is not the big talk or small talk, it's the listening with interest that matters.
29
Your piece reminded me that the reason I fell in love with my husband 32 years ago was exactly because he skipped all the chit-chat when we first met and went straight to what you call "big talk." Thanks for the reminder and the smile.
7
Why not write an article with suggested questions that readers can use to initiate more substantive conversations? They don't need to be invasive. Just
more real and honest and interested than the usual waste of time. I like what Karl said,( previous post) and there are so many possibilities that don't need
to make people feel uncomfortable. In fact, I could use some help with this, myself. What can we ask somewhere between "have you been here before?" and "what was your greatest love?". What are some good segue questions?
more real and honest and interested than the usual waste of time. I like what Karl said,( previous post) and there are so many possibilities that don't need
to make people feel uncomfortable. In fact, I could use some help with this, myself. What can we ask somewhere between "have you been here before?" and "what was your greatest love?". What are some good segue questions?
4
Small talk isn't about conveying information in the classic sense. It's a delicate dance that lets each partner learn about one another in ways that have nothing to do with the topic of the conversation. Does she smile at me or just looked bored until it's her turn to talk? Does she laugh at my little jokes or is she unmoved? Does he look over my shoulder to see if anybody better is coming in the door? Is he warm? is she clearly self-centered? Does he say disparaging things about other people or types of people? Is she angry at everyone?
These are just a few examples of signals we send and pick up, largely unconsciously. Sometimes the stars are right and two people can move easily and naturally into a deep, sharing conversation, but to force it is too skip over the most critical part of the dynamics of two people communicating for the first time--whether it is a potential partner or someone you meet on the subway. In the beginning of a human interaction, how things are said is much more important than what is said.
These are just a few examples of signals we send and pick up, largely unconsciously. Sometimes the stars are right and two people can move easily and naturally into a deep, sharing conversation, but to force it is too skip over the most critical part of the dynamics of two people communicating for the first time--whether it is a potential partner or someone you meet on the subway. In the beginning of a human interaction, how things are said is much more important than what is said.
31
We all love talking about ourselves, and our egos tend to get in the way, so engaging in a meaningful conversation is much harder than one might think. Small talk is sometimes a good cover up for our own insecurities when meeting strangers. It's more rare to actually find oneself in a conversation where both parties are actively listening to one another, meaning, they are actually thinking through what the other person is saying and reacting in a meaningful way. This requires genuine human interest in the other. Most of the time, we're so into ourselves.
5
I refused to settle for anything other than an intellectual connection when I was dating (and I was meeting women on IRC in the late 80s, and people thought I was strange for doing so). The physical connection has to be there of course, but for me, that can be developed more over time than the intellectual one. In other words, I may not find someone that physically attractive initially but end up being infatuated with them based on what they say, and that usually involved deep thoughts.
I'm now been in a relationship (married) for 15 years and we've had some ups and downs and these days we spend an hour at least 3-4 days a week just talking about us. We have kids so getting frisky the way we used to isn't as easy and we're older so the flesh isn't the strong even if the spirit is willing. But that hour long deep thought conversation has been hugely beneficial to our relationship. I also find the stare the other person in the eye for exactly four minutes useful but my wife doesn't.
I'm an open book and I tell people anything and everything. This has burnt me with friends who called me family but I've not changed in that regard. I think talking about everything to strangers is easier than spilling your guts to people who are your colleagues, etc.
I'm now been in a relationship (married) for 15 years and we've had some ups and downs and these days we spend an hour at least 3-4 days a week just talking about us. We have kids so getting frisky the way we used to isn't as easy and we're older so the flesh isn't the strong even if the spirit is willing. But that hour long deep thought conversation has been hugely beneficial to our relationship. I also find the stare the other person in the eye for exactly four minutes useful but my wife doesn't.
I'm an open book and I tell people anything and everything. This has burnt me with friends who called me family but I've not changed in that regard. I think talking about everything to strangers is easier than spilling your guts to people who are your colleagues, etc.
2
One thing I have learned from dating is that if you give a man the impression you want to hear about his deep personal feelings or issues, you will spend the next two hours as his therapist. No thank you. I am a good listener, and this has taught me that if you give most men an inch, they will take a mile. The one man who truly changed my life was the one who was interested in what I thought. I was writing a blog, and he was an interested reader. It wasn't small talk. It was about politics, humor, etc. The deep stuff is for later. The only thing a man has to do to win over any woman is to actually be interested in what she has to say. But if it has to be a Pulitzer Prize winning story, he isn't really interested in her. Conversation is a two-way street, not one person entertaining the other nor one person being the other's therapist. Honestly I think Mr. Boomer just wants to be entertained, which isn't the same as intimacy.
116
Anne said: ...if you give a man the impression you want to hear about his deep personal feelings or issues, you will spend the next two hours as his therapist....I am a good listener, and this has taught me that if you give most men an inch, they will take a mile.
Amen, sister.
I'm a stellar listener. The upside is that this skill allows me to hear about opinions, speech and actions which the speakers probably don't even realize are damning, and on a first date, too. Saving time and energy in the long run.
Amen, sister.
I'm a stellar listener. The upside is that this skill allows me to hear about opinions, speech and actions which the speakers probably don't even realize are damning, and on a first date, too. Saving time and energy in the long run.
1
I love "big talk," but with some people, especially men with whom there is a possibility of romantic involvement, I find small talk allows me to gauge whether there's any prospect of connecting, without embarrassing either of us too much or hurting the other person's feelings more than necessary.
It's also the case that I find a big talk conversation, even with a distant relative (that is, not in a dating context at all), followed by silence (even friendly silence) for days or weeks or months afterwards bothers me a great deal. Big talk (unless it's on an airplane or something) produces in me expectation of something in future, some more give and take, some further exploration. For people who would like to have a one-off deep conversation, I would like to know it's a one-off in advance.
I realized after my husband died, and I explored some dating possibilities, that I don't enjoy the getting-to-know-you phase of relationships as much as what comes later -- I am impatient for deeper intimacy. I think having been happily married for over twenty years spoiled me. But, as I said above, I don't want to jump impulsively into something deeper if there actually isn't any water in the pool, and I don't particularly want a one-off big talk conversation unless it's so advertised.
It's also the case that I find a big talk conversation, even with a distant relative (that is, not in a dating context at all), followed by silence (even friendly silence) for days or weeks or months afterwards bothers me a great deal. Big talk (unless it's on an airplane or something) produces in me expectation of something in future, some more give and take, some further exploration. For people who would like to have a one-off deep conversation, I would like to know it's a one-off in advance.
I realized after my husband died, and I explored some dating possibilities, that I don't enjoy the getting-to-know-you phase of relationships as much as what comes later -- I am impatient for deeper intimacy. I think having been happily married for over twenty years spoiled me. But, as I said above, I don't want to jump impulsively into something deeper if there actually isn't any water in the pool, and I don't particularly want a one-off big talk conversation unless it's so advertised.
41
I appreciate your perspective. It is actually pretty rare to hear such a discussion, devoid of the bitterness that sometimes attends divorce and breakup and yet conveying the poignancy of loss a long and valued partner. I am not sure how I would fare. I think your approach seems wiser than that of Mr Boomer who is perhaps touting a recipe for what he hope will be success.
At 61 and never married—until now—I just married the only love I've ever experienced and that was almost 40 years ago.
I never knew a woman(girl) before her or since that we shared everything with ease, big and small. I believe open conversation and honesty make up the platform for true love and someday soon I hope the NYT will allow me to share my story of love.
I never knew a woman(girl) before her or since that we shared everything with ease, big and small. I believe open conversation and honesty make up the platform for true love and someday soon I hope the NYT will allow me to share my story of love.
16
How did this happen? Did you re-connect with her after 40 years? How did you reconnect?
Either way the story is heart-warming and imbues us with hope.
Either way the story is heart-warming and imbues us with hope.
2
As someone who mostly prefers big talk, albeit somewhat billiard-table like an d sprinkled with silliness and discussions of small observations about nature and people, I will say that I've learned that most people do NOT like that, and you presume upon their trust when you assume they DO like that.
It's not the level of topical conversation that's salient: it's the hard work of establishing and cultivating TRUST that's salient.
It's not the level of topical conversation that's salient: it's the hard work of establishing and cultivating TRUST that's salient.
41
Its your Concern and Attention to the person that matters.
7
While I agree with much of this, I think the author does a big disservice to himself by trying to objectively label certain subjects as falling into the world of "small talk" (or "big talk" for that matter) What is and isn't "small talk" is truly in the eye of the beholder. It's a subjective categorization at best. A conversation about someone's commute or the weather can very easily become a passionate, deep, humorous, insightful, and meaningful conversation if handled correctly.
I live in Boston, so when asked about the weather, I can simply give a 5 word answer, or spend much time going on about appreciating the intensity of each of the four seasons, how one grows to appreciate it the more you live here, and the joys one can find in the first snowfall, first fallen autumn leaf, first spring flower bud, or first time at the beach on a hot summer night.
What makes something "small talk" or "big talk" is not the subject matter, it's the person and their interest in the other person across from them. If the interest and passion in good, intimate conversation is not there, it doesn't really matter the subject or the question, nothing is going to work.
I live in Boston, so when asked about the weather, I can simply give a 5 word answer, or spend much time going on about appreciating the intensity of each of the four seasons, how one grows to appreciate it the more you live here, and the joys one can find in the first snowfall, first fallen autumn leaf, first spring flower bud, or first time at the beach on a hot summer night.
What makes something "small talk" or "big talk" is not the subject matter, it's the person and their interest in the other person across from them. If the interest and passion in good, intimate conversation is not there, it doesn't really matter the subject or the question, nothing is going to work.
58
Well said! Topic is not as important as attitude. I also used to live in Boston; one can easily wax rhapsodic about the weather for hours! It's one of the most beautiful cities I know for appreciating the four seasons. Talks about weather can lead to talks about nature, and therein, for me, is a gauge to whether I could possibly fell attracted or intimate connected to someone...
1
You have nailed, Bryan.
As someone who is trying to date again, I find your suggestion refreshing. I will try this out.
7
Remember back in the 80s when you met a girl in a bar, got all comfortable waiting for the moment and then what came out of her mouth sounded like Sarah Palin on PCP? - and you thought, boy have I a made a huge mistake here. Mr. Boomer (if that really is his name) fits the description and God help you girls if you find yourself across the table or bed from this guy.
6
I've always wanted to cut straight to big meaningful talk, but thought it's not the norm. This was amazing!! why do we stop ourselves from doing what our hearts desire. By that I mean we waste time fitting in a box. When we have this one life to bond and share and find meaning. I say never again waste time with small talk get right to the meaningful stuff. Get to know others stories.
4
It's all a grand tapestry to my mind. The minutia of the day, the aspirations of a life, the wonderment of consciousness, the sublime boundlessness of the universe around us - all are woven into who we are, and our relationships with the one we love. To preclude any of it on the grounds that it is too small to talk about is not something I understand.
13
The aversion to small talk reminds me of a slightly eccentric Frenchman I know who responded to my husband's conversational overtures (yes, small talk) with a blank stare and plain rudeness. Wanting only to talk about profound things is all very well, but not everyone wants to open themselves up to someone they don't know, in which case it just leads to awkward silences or irritation. The idea of deftly executed small talk is, after all, to be able to navigate to some common ground.
42
There is small talk.
But there are no true conversations that are small.
But there are no true conversations that are small.
4
On the night I met the man (27years ago) I was to marry (4 years later) I was out with two friends to give them the post mortem on a date I'd had the evening before. He (the man I was about to meet) was at the bar with two friends of his, and about 20 minutes in, all 6 of us were at a table having a great time -- talking business. We were all, in one capacity or another, Wall Streeters, and it was solid sarcastic brilliant repartee. When it came time to say good night he said, "I had fun. I hope we can do it again sometime." and he kissed me. I gave him my phone number.
We didn't do "small talk" until we'd "known" each other for weeks. We'd talk the industry, and politics, and ....
It was the best 22 years of my life. He was brilliant. And funny. And beautiful. and I was very very lucky.
Today is the 5th anniversary of his death.
We didn't do "small talk" until we'd "known" each other for weeks. We'd talk the industry, and politics, and ....
It was the best 22 years of my life. He was brilliant. And funny. And beautiful. and I was very very lucky.
Today is the 5th anniversary of his death.
161
I did an exercise yesterday designed to help me focus on areas in my life that needed more oversight. To make a longer story short, one of the benefits was seeing that it pointed to my wife as the most important part of my life. (We've been together 19 years now)
I really really feel lucky to have her around. And sad that you don't have yours with you.
I really really feel lucky to have her around. And sad that you don't have yours with you.
10
A great idea for a particular type of person - the range of reactions in the comment section is proof that Mr. Boomer's idea is an effective "filtering system" to find a like-minded mate.
Perhaps his day job working as an actuary (a field which, unfairly, is reputed to be full of "math–obsessed, socially disconnected individuals with shockingly bad comb–overs" according to an industry publication) leaves a great depth of unfulfilled emotion and connection. I know personally that as soon as I leave the paper-pushing and pleasantries of the office, I seek out genuine and deep involvement.
Perhaps his day job working as an actuary (a field which, unfairly, is reputed to be full of "math–obsessed, socially disconnected individuals with shockingly bad comb–overs" according to an industry publication) leaves a great depth of unfulfilled emotion and connection. I know personally that as soon as I leave the paper-pushing and pleasantries of the office, I seek out genuine and deep involvement.
4
Lots of men and I suspect some women have trouble making "big talk", and love nothing better than witty talk, talk about sports, talk about anything other than the true and the personal. I think some people are just like this by nature and diving right into the deep might scare them away. I, on the other hand, love the big talk. The secret is being open and vulnerable yourself first, sharing your weaknesses and frailties and letting go of the ego.
50
I really liked this, and I definitely think it could work.
However, I REALLY wanted to know how it worked out with the hitchiker, her husband, and her lover. No fair setting us all up like this!
However, I REALLY wanted to know how it worked out with the hitchiker, her husband, and her lover. No fair setting us all up like this!
32
Tim Boomer, want to know why that conversation was so good? Because it was with a HITCHHIKER. A hitchhiker has nothing to hide and bravely shows his or her face. So sad we no longer have these honest conversation-starters standing in the shoulders of American highways anymore. So for now, we'd better stick with the small talk.
3
Many years ago, after a mutual friend introduced me to very attractive young red-head at the Jewish Community Center singles mixer, I began with the usual, "Hi! I'm Jay! So, what are you up to?" The young woman looked at me, then softly smiling she gently replied "I'm waiting." "Waiting?" I asked quizzically. "Yes." she said. We both paused. The bait worked, so I asked the obvious, "What are you waiting for?" " I'm waiting for Gadot". I was crushed. I was hoping she would say that she was waiting for a nice Jewish man but, that's not the way it went.
It took me almost 15 minutes to secure her phone number. "Call this, not that!" I was confused and almost not interested any further. But, finally I got the number she wanted me to call. We we're married 6 months later. We have two children and 4 grandchildren. And we were happily divorced 25 years later. Now she's really waiting. C'est la vie.
It took me almost 15 minutes to secure her phone number. "Call this, not that!" I was confused and almost not interested any further. But, finally I got the number she wanted me to call. We we're married 6 months later. We have two children and 4 grandchildren. And we were happily divorced 25 years later. Now she's really waiting. C'est la vie.
6
Thank you for publishing a male writer!
Maybe you can alternate between male and female writing :)
Thank you once again.
Maybe you can alternate between male and female writing :)
Thank you once again.
5
Gotta know: what happened to the Hitchhiker, her true love and her husband?!? Please finish that part of the story!
3
will you go out with me? I am so on this same path...People think i am crazy. LOL
2
No issue with this - enjoyed the story, but it feels like this is backwards. When I've had pleasant new moments like these, it wasn't because I structured the conversation and then worked to fit the interaction into it. It just seemed to flow that way - into talk big and small. Organically, I guess. Maybe there's room for all types of approaches, but I don't think I'm good at structured small talk (i.e. a template for discussion). It clicks or it doesn't - granted, that hardly ever happens...
28
I love this approach to meeting new people. One time, years ago, I asked a man I had just met the story behind his becoming a journalist specializing in religion. There were several other people at the table. They all looked at me in horror, as if I had asked him to take his clothes off. Still seems to me it was a good question, and I'd still love to know the answer.
5
My sweet Veronica, what is the meaning of meaning?
I share the writer's preference for cutting right to the nitty gritty. Since what I want in relationship -- intimate or intimate friendship -- is well, intimacy, then I want to know who they are, who they love, what they're passionate about. People who don't enjoy such brazen depth diving are of course perfectly wonderful, but not the personality type for me. Just better to understand who we are, what we want, and honestly go right there as directly as possible.
2
By trying to dig deep so fast, you're demanding a level of trust you haven't earned. There's a kind of arrogance to that. Lots of communication happens in small talk beyond the details of a commute or weather. Eye contact, personal presence, tone. If you want better connections with people you might start with the humanity you can offer to them, instead of the personal exposure you're challenging them to give.
350
Great comment
1
Those questions he asked sound like the annoying HR questions on a job interview.
Give me small talk any day.
Give me small talk any day.
1
It's not a demand. It's an invitation. The response is a voluntary next step in what will hopefully be a lovely, interesting exchange. The options are endless. Be funny. Be creative. Be revealing, or not. If you feel uncomfortable, comment on the weather and move on.
2
I love small talk, e.g., "What's new?" "Keeping busy?" "Whatcha been up to lately?"
Each question provides an opportunity to start a conversation.
For the same reason, I loathe non-talk, e.g., "How are you?" "Fine, how are you?" (the only acceptable response) "I'm good!" (the only acceptable response)
The end. Neither person has learned a single thing about the other.
And yet non-talk rules the day. I hear it constantly. Small talk? Almost never.
Each question provides an opportunity to start a conversation.
For the same reason, I loathe non-talk, e.g., "How are you?" "Fine, how are you?" (the only acceptable response) "I'm good!" (the only acceptable response)
The end. Neither person has learned a single thing about the other.
And yet non-talk rules the day. I hear it constantly. Small talk? Almost never.
3
Oh i hate, "what's new?" It puts so much onus on me. What's new in life? Tough to say, I've just been livin'. (and I doubt most of us have momentous occasions to share every day.) What's new since we last spoke? I don't know, I don't compartmentalize my life based on when I see you. What's new with you?
3
Got a little teary at the end of this. Love it! But... what happened with the woman in Costa Rica and the dramatic, dusty love triangle????
5
I mean this out of kindness: I hope that the author comes to realize that the reason for his difficulties in relationships is likely well documented in this column.
Conversation is its own kind of seduction, and like any good seduction, pacing is important and it's usually the inexperienced that fumble the intros and "small stuff," and try to compensate by hurrying along.
Conversation is its own kind of seduction, and like any good seduction, pacing is important and it's usually the inexperienced that fumble the intros and "small stuff," and try to compensate by hurrying along.
34
Really inspiring and thought provoking! I wonder if trying it out with a stranger would be easier than with a person you want to reconnect with. Someone with whom you already had such meaningful big talks. Both of you shared deepest thoughts, liked doing so, bonded very well and got involved. In addition, you enjoyed the silly stuff and balanced small talk as well. But then for some trivial reasons you drifted apart, started edging towards monotonous conversations and now you miss the real connection that you had. I guess this transition from big to small talk is even worse. Oh, life would be so simple and beautiful if this theory could be applied in such case.
Tim, you sound like an interesting guy. Since I haven't traveled much, I would still be tongue tied by the question--perhaps "What place would you most want to visit and why?" I've always found the responses to "how did you meet your husband" to be the most interesting stories from strangers.
1
It appears that you have replaced small talk with the tedious boorishness of unmitigated earnestness. Perhaps it is best to say nothing at all.
28
Definitely spare me.
Small talk leads to big talk or medium talk or funny talk if the connection is right. Every conversation doesn't have to be the most meaningful in the world.
"What place inspired you most and why?" That's a high school English essay question. Thank God that wasn't the first thing out of my husband's mouth 24 years ago.
Small talk leads to big talk or medium talk or funny talk if the connection is right. Every conversation doesn't have to be the most meaningful in the world.
"What place inspired you most and why?" That's a high school English essay question. Thank God that wasn't the first thing out of my husband's mouth 24 years ago.
40
I love it. I like asking what people nerd out about. What really gets them excited. No matter the topic, it's so fun, wonderful and surprising to hear someone light about something important to them. That's the true them.
3
I think I see why Alejandra left. No one wants to talk about the deep stuff all the time--especially over eggs and coffee in the morning.
50
Cool story. You sound like a fun and interesting person. Talk, both "Small" and "Big" can be fun and interesting - listening is great too. Sense of humor and flexibility are key. Enjoy !
5
But we're all dying to know, what happened to the hitchhiker?? How can you not include that? That's the real story here!!
17
Really enjoyed your article. I've dated, been married and dated again. I understand how agonizing it is to "get back out there." I give you credit for trying to find a new way to connect and get more satisfaction out of the dating experience. If someone is uncomfortable sharing who they are then perhaps they are not ready for the same type of relationship you are. That is the journey.
I have not been single for some time now, but when I was I went on plenty of dates with basically complete strangers (online dating, fix-ups from friends, etc). I would have been very uncomfortable if a man had pushed me in this way into "deep" talk (and I would have felt pushed indeed) in the early stages of getting-to-know-you. It seems to me this is a way of forcing intimacy before I have any idea if I want that level of closeness with someone. Some women may love it but I shuddered when I read about it...
277
The author is a male. Ha!
3
I totally agree! I find his "deep" questions creepy and pseudo-intellectual. Social conventions like small talk exist for a reason. I have an autistic teenager and spend innumerable hours teaching him social conventions precisely because "unexpected" questions make most people uncomfortable and scare them off.
10
Me too, especially if it was as one-sided as the car conversation described.
1
I wouldn't be quite so quick to dispense with small talk. It's amazing what you can learn about someone's attitude toward life just by hearing a discourse on the weather. There are people who'll find fault with a sunny day, invoking stats about ozone layer depletion and the need for sunscreen, all of which is toxic, etc., and others who could find the proverbial silver lining in whatever named storm is disrupting lives this week. Discussion of a commute might reveal a climate-dissing dinosaur with a big carbon footprint or a fastidious bicyclist.
I'd perhaps focus more on teasing out the small, telling details, rather than moving in for the big story kill on the first encounter. If the small stuff works, you'll have plenty of time to savor more intimate inquiry in the months or years to come.
I'd perhaps focus more on teasing out the small, telling details, rather than moving in for the big story kill on the first encounter. If the small stuff works, you'll have plenty of time to savor more intimate inquiry in the months or years to come.
231
What you've said is quite perfect! And also, while I haven't a great deal of experience, I notice that people with children and any sort of real estate have to talk out a lot of details of life, which in comparison can feel like small talk. Really, it's these details of how we view our day to day which speak so much to how we live and feel and grow. So, Penn, you've got a good POV here. I'd date you! ;-)
For a conversation starter: "What are your hopes and dreams?" To stop meaningless recitation of uninteresting facts or experiences: "Why don't you put that in your memoires"
There is sometimes a very fine line between "big" talk and TMI.
42
I once watched Derek Jeter work his time at bat to get a sense of the skill of the unknown (to him) pitcher before getting a "walk." Yeah, Jeter probably could have hit a home run on the first swing but it was more important for the coach and subsequent hitters to learn what the pitcher could and couldn't do. Small talk is kinda the same thing, you use it as a means of slowly getting to know someone and allowing them to get to know you without risk instead of going for the big hit on your first meeting.
63
As a Yankee fan I love this metaphorical example!
That's exactly what I value about small talk. Give the other person the opportunity to either make a subtle positive impression--or reveal themselves to be a boor/bore. No hurt feelings, just a little personal-chemistry test.
1
Small talk is seduction if you know what you're doing.
24
This may be true, but if so it bears out the hypothesis that small talkers are manipulative. What is seduction but manipulating the other person into a sexual situation that she or he might not otherwise want, while avoiding actual intimacy?
If you're talented, you can use small talk as a springboard to more profound discussions. Profound questions right off the bat I think don't make good ice breakers.
26
I want to know what happened with the dusty hitchhiker and her Italian lover... Did they run away together? Are they still together? Are they still in love?
13
I am rarely compelled to comment, but I loved this column. But honestly, after reading the comments section of this site long enough (especially Modern Love) I feel like I must have the capacity to love or even like much more than the average commenter. Or, maybe it's that my first instinct isn't to tell someone (who is relaying a *personal* experience) that this experience is wrong. Come on, people. It's Modern Love. Instead of telling the writer (and everyone else) that you hate something, why not try to find something that you like? This story, to me, is about doing just that. Taking something that you don't like (small talk) and transforming it into something that you do. And, getting to know a little bit about someone in the process.
16
I know what you mean. After my longtime partner died, I tried E-Harmony, for lack of a better approach. But I found the same sort of thing as you described - lists. The men I met wanted to know "my interests". Somehow, the things I wanted "to do" verusus the things he wanted "to do" seemed of paramount importance to my dates. I didn't feel that was so terribly important. To me, just "connecting" with the person" - a sense of compassion, sense of humor, were far more important.
That said, I actually don't know if all this falls into being pro-small talk or anti-small talk, but I do agree there are much more significant levels on which to connect - even at the first meeting.
That said, I actually don't know if all this falls into being pro-small talk or anti-small talk, but I do agree there are much more significant levels on which to connect - even at the first meeting.
5
I, too, tried eHarmony -- a few times over the course of many years. I was fascinated by the results, given the site's promise of helping me find people who were well matched on the aspects most important for a compatible relationship.
The vast majority of users I encountered seemed to be using the service as just another dating site in their arsenal and must have answered the lengthy questionnaire without thinking about it, just so they could get to their matches. The few who actually took the process seriously seemed much better suited to me. I don't know whether it was because we actually did match (i.e. their answers were true to who they were, thus their profile complemented mine) or because they were more sincere and willing to answer the more contemplative questions I chose to ask during the "getting to know you" phase. Others would just write "hey" or "give me your number."
The good ones -- the ones who are attuned to what works for you in all of this dating stuff -- are out there. I was fortunate to meet the man I could connect with very quickly and naturally, without an abundance of list-trading and weather-talking.
The vast majority of users I encountered seemed to be using the service as just another dating site in their arsenal and must have answered the lengthy questionnaire without thinking about it, just so they could get to their matches. The few who actually took the process seriously seemed much better suited to me. I don't know whether it was because we actually did match (i.e. their answers were true to who they were, thus their profile complemented mine) or because they were more sincere and willing to answer the more contemplative questions I chose to ask during the "getting to know you" phase. Others would just write "hey" or "give me your number."
The good ones -- the ones who are attuned to what works for you in all of this dating stuff -- are out there. I was fortunate to meet the man I could connect with very quickly and naturally, without an abundance of list-trading and weather-talking.
1
That's great! I am happy for you.
I probably should have just stated "dating site" without mentioning its name.
But since I did, it is encouraging to hear that other people have fared well on it.
Thank-you. Maybe I should give it another try.
I probably should have just stated "dating site" without mentioning its name.
But since I did, it is encouraging to hear that other people have fared well on it.
Thank-you. Maybe I should give it another try.
I view small talk as a buffer to protect one from revealing any incriminating details about them self. Some of us have a lot of stuff we need to hide (if my job found out I was bipolar I'd be out the door). Since so many facets of myself one could get to (should they go beyond small talk) could out me, I'm grateful that our culture has conventions that allow one to hide behind it.
9
Small talk is useful with people you don't want to get to know, like many co-workers and neighbors. But with someone you may become close to (even as friends), it's largely a waste of time. "Big talk" need not be that personal, no need to bare your soul to someone you just met, But you can learn a lot about them by asking their opinions or feelings about news events, their family, beliefs, even hobbies. If a date goes on for a half- hour about the weather or their commute, I'd think they are either a boring person, or perhaps more charitably, that they are socially unskilled or afraid.
10
If anyone reads the very first sentence of Chapter One in 'Mode One: Let the Women Know What You're REALLY Thinking,' the author emphatically states, "I hate trivial, unproductive small talk. Absolutely hate it."
You will find that the main types of people who love to engage in lengthy episodes of entertaining, but yet trivial and unproductive 'fluff' talk and 'small talk' are those who are disingenuous, pretentious, and/or highly manipulative. Men and women who are more real, raw, and authentic as well as those who hate to waste time and lead very active lifestyles HATE engaging in trivial small talk.
Particularly, when it comes to conversations between those who are interested in each other romantically and/or sexually. Nothing diminishes a man's sex appeal than a man who engages in too many episodes of lengthy, trivial, unproductive 'small talk.' Most women love when their purely platonic male friends engage in multiple episodes of entertaining 'fluff talk' and trivial small talk, but those same women do not really care for that from the men who they are more interested in having satisfying sex with.
One of the quickest ways to get 'friend zoned' by a woman is to become a master of 'small talk.'
You will find that the main types of people who love to engage in lengthy episodes of entertaining, but yet trivial and unproductive 'fluff' talk and 'small talk' are those who are disingenuous, pretentious, and/or highly manipulative. Men and women who are more real, raw, and authentic as well as those who hate to waste time and lead very active lifestyles HATE engaging in trivial small talk.
Particularly, when it comes to conversations between those who are interested in each other romantically and/or sexually. Nothing diminishes a man's sex appeal than a man who engages in too many episodes of lengthy, trivial, unproductive 'small talk.' Most women love when their purely platonic male friends engage in multiple episodes of entertaining 'fluff talk' and trivial small talk, but those same women do not really care for that from the men who they are more interested in having satisfying sex with.
One of the quickest ways to get 'friend zoned' by a woman is to become a master of 'small talk.'
4
To misquote Hanns Johst (not Goering, see Wikipedia): Whenever I hear "friend zoned", I reach for my revolver.
There are plenty of women, me included, who marry their best friends, and who took months or years to fall in love with them. There are also plenty of shy people, like my husband and me, who would knock over our coffees and run for the fire exit when a stranger asked "What places inspire you?"
Small talk is a useful tool for getting comfortable enough to move to the deeper conversation -- or to decide that you'd rather avoid the deeper conversation. An interesting person will have interesting things to say about the blandest questions, such as "What's your favorite kind of restaurant?" An incompatible person doesn't get any less incompatible when they're telling you about their inspirations. Think about the person who is inspired by Ayn Rand and tells you about it, at length.
There are plenty of women, me included, who marry their best friends, and who took months or years to fall in love with them. There are also plenty of shy people, like my husband and me, who would knock over our coffees and run for the fire exit when a stranger asked "What places inspire you?"
Small talk is a useful tool for getting comfortable enough to move to the deeper conversation -- or to decide that you'd rather avoid the deeper conversation. An interesting person will have interesting things to say about the blandest questions, such as "What's your favorite kind of restaurant?" An incompatible person doesn't get any less incompatible when they're telling you about their inspirations. Think about the person who is inspired by Ayn Rand and tells you about it, at length.
9
People who jump to big talk scare the living hell outta me,.
15
While I agree that intimacy and trust are fostered through exposure (i.e., "talk[ing] big and ... deep," there are many out there who are somewhat impaired with respect to those things. While the "filter" is as useful on an online dating website (to weed out the creeps) as it is at your favorite bar (to weed out the small talkers), they can also be excessive. Small talk allows those who are not as good at intimacy to develop and practice the art of conversation, which, with a little time, can ultimately reveal exactly what it was such individuals deemed so worthy of protecting.
I filtered out a potential suitor on OkCupid because he didn't meet my height criteria. His message to me went into my "Didn't make it" box, which I would occasionally peruse "just in case." Because I decided to ignore my preset filters, I discovered that he was a concert pianist, one of the most extraordinary musicians alive (even written up here in the New York Times). I also learned that while he was an expert in small talk, he was a virtual novice at "big talk." What climbs to the surface is small and to some, insignificant. But now, those rare moments of revelation are all the more startling, powerful, and beautiful.
And I will never take them for granted.
I filtered out a potential suitor on OkCupid because he didn't meet my height criteria. His message to me went into my "Didn't make it" box, which I would occasionally peruse "just in case." Because I decided to ignore my preset filters, I discovered that he was a concert pianist, one of the most extraordinary musicians alive (even written up here in the New York Times). I also learned that while he was an expert in small talk, he was a virtual novice at "big talk." What climbs to the surface is small and to some, insignificant. But now, those rare moments of revelation are all the more startling, powerful, and beautiful.
And I will never take them for granted.
6
"What work are you most passionate about?"
"Check, please!"
"Check, please!"
189
True story.
1
This is lovely, but it also strikes me as a bit emotionally demanding. We may not always WANT to connect with the people we meet on such a profound level, right? Every moment in life does not have to have IMPACT. Sometimes, asking someone, "How have you been?" a seemingly innocuous question is simply what it is: opening the door for them to tell you how they have been, be it bad or good, in pain or doing well. It is an opportunity to listen. I didn't get much of a sense of that in this piece - a willingness to really listen and not worry about how you feel about what you're hearing.
96
Want to change how your small talk feels? One simple question tends to instantly change conversations. Instead of leading with "how are you?" or "what's new?" - try this one: "what have you been thinking about lately?"
61
How I hate the small talk, and gossip and all this nonsense
I would love to talk about things that are important to me.
On the other hand, I don't want to answer questions that I consider rude.
I'm a very straightforward person, small talk is a nightmare for me.
I would love to talk about things that are important to me.
On the other hand, I don't want to answer questions that I consider rude.
I'm a very straightforward person, small talk is a nightmare for me.
2
I thought the answer to all that was the famous set of '36 Questions' that went viral last year.
6
At a wedding in Ireland over a decade ago, a stranger at my table---a British man---within the first 10 minutes of meeting, asked me whether American weddings had American flags hanging around the venue, whether I had dated or could date a man shorter than I, whether I believed in God.
I married him the next year.
I married him the next year.
124
That's interesting. Based on my experience there seems to be a cultural difference between North America and Europe in this area. Europeans seem much more willing to engage in deep conversations, while Americans tend to stick to small talk. Some of the most interesting conversations I have had have been with a European in a bar. Actually, I am American, my wife is European and our first conversation was in a bar (introduced by a mutual friend).
4
I have to know: did you have American flags hanging at your wedding?
5
I tend to be very gentle about people's unwillingness to share intimacies or personal stories immediately. I know that if we continue to meet, and I earn their trust, I have earned a friendship that will last a lifetime. Some people take longer to draw out, often for good reason, but the time and effort are worth it.
94
I would happily accept a coconut, but would think it was a test to see if I could open it.
Agreed that small talk is drudgery--and, yes, I can do it. But I do it at office parties or with new clients when you need to be polite, and boring enough not to offend. It's not my job to play with my real personality.
Many, many moons ago there was a book called The Book of Questions. It made a fun parlour game in college. I should dig it up and use those questions on dates.
PS, while you are too young for me, you sounds not bad for an actuary!
Agreed that small talk is drudgery--and, yes, I can do it. But I do it at office parties or with new clients when you need to be polite, and boring enough not to offend. It's not my job to play with my real personality.
Many, many moons ago there was a book called The Book of Questions. It made a fun parlour game in college. I should dig it up and use those questions on dates.
PS, while you are too young for me, you sounds not bad for an actuary!
7
There IS such a book! My (now) husband and I found it at Borders and took it with us in the car while we were dating (once we thought we might be headed toward marriage). I would flip through and find a question about something I wanted to know what he thought about and that one question could lead to a whole afternoon of discussion about MANY other things. I know that sounds like a really tortured way to get to know someone, but it worked for us. We've been married for 17 years and have 3 incredible kids. I still have the book... it occurs to me that it might be time to get it out on date nights and see if there are things we didn't get to 18 years ago or if either of us has changed how we think about something.
2
A date with you sounds like an interview! A great date is when the conversation flows and you don't have to think about it so hard.
147
There is a postulate in conflict theory that during a negotiation never underestimate the power of small talk. I believe this simple notion is correct, but a corollary ought to be that moving from small talk to substance should occur within the least amount of time possible. The psychologist, Sherry Turkle, is correct when she observes that the ability to have conversations has deteriorated with the advent of all those devices that supposedly connect us. What this author, Mr. Boomer, discovered is what this boomer learned long ago: look into someone's eyes, listen carefully, but only bare your soul to one who deserves to know.
47
Oh, spare me. I don't always want to talk about the biggest, deepest things in my heart, and sometimes I can think of things to say and sometimes I can't. Some people I trust and some I don't. Context is everything.
Don't create rules against small talk, just become good at it, let it lead you into the person, and listen to them so that you gradually hear details that can let you ask bigger questions, or know, they don't want to speak right then because guess what, it is not always about you.
Don't create rules against small talk, just become good at it, let it lead you into the person, and listen to them so that you gradually hear details that can let you ask bigger questions, or know, they don't want to speak right then because guess what, it is not always about you.
267
What's with all the black-and-white reproach? Mr. Boomer makes a point of saying that what he figured out with this friends is that this could be a good approach for him personally, not a rule for all people to follow in all interactions. What he's talking about is a creative approach to social interactions, not a one-size-fits-all. (By the way Mr Boomer, very inspiring!)
2
Bravo, NSH!! I agree with you. This guys sounds dreadful, lacking in delight, charm, and very immature (I forgot - 30 is the new 10). I think he just invented a new phenomenon: speed dating for neurotics.
9
But if you are good at small talk you are creative in social interactions, because you listen and let the conversation go where it wants to go. He wants to force it there. Difference.
1
If you can't do small talk, I'd wager that you will have a difficult time being happily married. The way I see my, relatively long (25 years) marriage, is a conversation that never ends. Most of it is small talk about what happened that day, what the weather will be like, and what we will have for dinner. It's not always about the big connections, but rather how to create long-lasting ones.
271
I don't agree. The reason small talk in a marriage is no big deal is because you ALREADY have a deep connection. Small talk in a marriage fills in the mundane gaps. You can't heave heavy, deep conversations 100% of the time. Small talk with a stranger does not really help form a connection. The whole point of the article is how small talk prevents you from really getting to know someone. I'd suspect if you're married to someone you already know them very, very well. Though I've seen exceptions to this, sadly.
20
Boring people do make good long-term partners, don't they.
4
With this premise, most marriages are failures because we fail to do small talk. Very interesting!
I may start brining a printed copy of this column on all first dates. It is far more eloquent than my usual pronouncement where I tell someone I barely know that small talk turns me into an awkward and dryly one-dimensional version of myself. At least said pronouncement isn't small talk. ;)
21
Sometimes what you're talking about is not really what you're talking about. Small talk and superficial chat isn't about the content of the communication, but *how* the two of you communicate. Meta-communication, you might say.
196
Yes, it would reveal if the other person has an interest in what you say, or if they will interrupt or tune you out every time you attempt to speak.
2
Awesome. I've cut out small talk for quite a while. While some people have too much fear to delve, I find that, more often than not, our conversations, both romantic and platonic, lead us into meaningful territory that we remember; for those too frightened by the prospect, I don't waste time. After all, we don't really have too much time to waste.
51
After 9/11, I decided life was too short for small talk and other such formalities and boundaries in social settings. How this fares really depends on who the other person is, context, and other factors. Being genuine in your interest and desire to listen are key, I think. If said to be provocative or to amuse yourself, it doesn't fare as well if the goal is a deeper connection (though it can lead to a more interesting conversation than simple small talk).
27
Having just recently come into that status that is gently referred to as "between relationships," this is very timely. I'll give it a try.
16
Glad you mentioned this applies to other than romantic relationships, Tim. Drives me crazy that people use "How've you been?" as a conversation opener. It isn't.
17
If you ask it kindly, calmly, and sincerely, it can be a conversation opener. Just because it's mindless chatter to millions, doesn't mean it has to be for you.
How have you been?
How have you been?
22
How've I been? I was diagnosed with cancer, my wife depleted our bank accts before filing for divorce, and someone stole my gun, thus preventing me from committing suicide. How was your day?
24
When people ask "How are you?" it's quite rare that they actually want to know. If you want to startle a person - or just find out if they're listening - give them an honest answer.
7
Beautiful story. I hope you found someone to share the deep questions with on a more permanent basis. What I want to know is, how does the hitchhiker's story end? Don't keep us in suspense! Also, your friend's first date coconut test? Better to save it for later, when you know the recipient a bit better and can gauge their response with a little more background information. Otherwise, it just seems random and strange. I don't know how many women have the tools at home to crack open such a hard nut (I sure don't.) Waiting to read the sequel in another Modern Love column...
59
Perhaps the fellow with the coconuts wants to screen out all women with hammers.
Food for thought.
Food for thought.
1