So why is Sean Penn not in Jail for aiding and abetting a fugitive or for keeping information concerning a wanted fugitive from the police. He is a criminal himself and should be charged with a felony. Since he is so fond of this creep let them spend their lives together in a federal prison.
6
Mr. Chapo tells us what we already know: profits are up, corruption is up, deaths of tens of thousands of innocents are up, and yes, he is replaceable. The one pearl, Mr. Penn’s insightful interview reveals is that Chapo loves his mother---how sweet. Mr. Chapo is not a psychopath only the doctors that keep his torture victims alive are. America and Mexico are simply Sysphus twins, endlessly targeting capos with no impact at all.
The piece missing from Mr. Penn’s article is the simple fact that far more Americans die from legal substances than illegal drugs. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention state that 88,000 Americans died per year (2006-2010) from alcohol abuse. Regarding drugs specifically, the National Institute on Drug Abuse lists deaths in 2014 as follows: 25,000 overdosed on prescription drugs, and 18,000 overdosed on prescription opioids. While, 5,000 overdosed on cocaine and 11,000 overdosed on heroin.
We spend billions on fighting the “drug war” with no results other than bad metrics on both sides of the border. Given that far more Americans die from legal drugs than illegal, perhaps the billion dollars plus we spend fighting drug addiction and incarcerating people, could instead treat drug addicts.
Laugh at Mr. Penn all you want, but he’s the guy who took out a full-page ad in the Washington Post urging President Bush to not invade Iraq, presciently imploring, “I beg you, help save America before yours is a legacy of shame and horror.”
The piece missing from Mr. Penn’s article is the simple fact that far more Americans die from legal substances than illegal drugs. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention state that 88,000 Americans died per year (2006-2010) from alcohol abuse. Regarding drugs specifically, the National Institute on Drug Abuse lists deaths in 2014 as follows: 25,000 overdosed on prescription drugs, and 18,000 overdosed on prescription opioids. While, 5,000 overdosed on cocaine and 11,000 overdosed on heroin.
We spend billions on fighting the “drug war” with no results other than bad metrics on both sides of the border. Given that far more Americans die from legal drugs than illegal, perhaps the billion dollars plus we spend fighting drug addiction and incarcerating people, could instead treat drug addicts.
Laugh at Mr. Penn all you want, but he’s the guy who took out a full-page ad in the Washington Post urging President Bush to not invade Iraq, presciently imploring, “I beg you, help save America before yours is a legacy of shame and horror.”
9
The obvious tag for Penn's piece is Gonzo journalism a description applied to Hunter S Thompson's work. Had Thompson still been alive Rolling Stone might have sent Thompson along with Penn to interview El Chapo. They would probably have stayed longer and done more drugs if that had happened and Thompson's take on it would have been much more insane.
3
Perhaps this has already been observed by someone. If so I apologize. It occurs to me that anyone with the brains to organize this mass scale manufacture and distribution of illicit drugs; who owns submarines airplanes ships and whatever else is needed to carry on the business and who brings in a billion of so in income obviously has the skills to form a successful and legal enterprise one that would help and not destroy mankind and one that would be a credit to himself and other humans helping many. To plead that poverty made me do it is ridiculous. What the El Chapo character lacked was morality empathy and other qualities associated with the human spirit. He likes killing maiming and absolute power.
2
What a big wheelbarrow load of manure this is. Penn is an opportunist and egomaniac extraordinaire. The fact that he is associating with this person - trying to maintain his cool persona--painting El Chapo as this folk hero/legend--(yet said hero is responsible for countless deaths and acts of violence ) under the guise of "investigative journalism" is incomprehensible.
5
Either Penn was complicit or not!
If he notified authorities, and helped in the apprehension of this piece of garbage, then terrific. If on the other hand it was to make a movie and further his career, he has that Hollywood liberal disconnect and is the quintessential proctologists dream!
If he notified authorities, and helped in the apprehension of this piece of garbage, then terrific. If on the other hand it was to make a movie and further his career, he has that Hollywood liberal disconnect and is the quintessential proctologists dream!
2
It really does show the competence of the Mexican government when " i am sam " finds el chapo before they do!!!
1
I don’t much care that Penn is not formally a journalist. He performed a very useful journalism-like service by bringing us a picture, out of Guzman’s own mouth, of the man’s massive criminality and immense capacity for self-delusion.
Guzman has abetted the addiction of tens of thousands, with no doubt hundreds of overdose deaths, and has ordered the violent deaths of many hundreds who were in his way, or just innocent bystanders.
And he justifies his actions with this: Mexican poverty made me do it! (And apparently made him keep on doing it over a couple of decades!)
That from a guy worth a billion and more?
It’s useful to have this guy’s huge ego and capacity for self-delusion out on display. (And it does seem fitting that he recognizes Donald Trump as a kindred spirit, “mi amigo”).
Guzman’s unguarded admissions -- his uncensored bragging: “I supply more heroin, methamphetamine, cocaine and marijuana than anybody else in the world.” (wow!) -- will no doubt be useful to prosecutors. Although conviction in a US court was surely a foregone conclusion without them, his statements will simplify the mass of proof at any trial.
Guzman has abetted the addiction of tens of thousands, with no doubt hundreds of overdose deaths, and has ordered the violent deaths of many hundreds who were in his way, or just innocent bystanders.
And he justifies his actions with this: Mexican poverty made me do it! (And apparently made him keep on doing it over a couple of decades!)
That from a guy worth a billion and more?
It’s useful to have this guy’s huge ego and capacity for self-delusion out on display. (And it does seem fitting that he recognizes Donald Trump as a kindred spirit, “mi amigo”).
Guzman’s unguarded admissions -- his uncensored bragging: “I supply more heroin, methamphetamine, cocaine and marijuana than anybody else in the world.” (wow!) -- will no doubt be useful to prosecutors. Although conviction in a US court was surely a foregone conclusion without them, his statements will simplify the mass of proof at any trial.
2
Guzman is transparently an evil person. But it is a combination of:
- moralistic US drug policy
- cowardly US gun culture
- insane US agriculture subsidization
that puts people like Guzman in power.
The thought that lazy, cowardly, imbecilic Americans are tut-tutting poor, hard-working Mexican farmers just looking for work makes me want to throw up. We caused their job loss, and then we judge and vilify them when they try to find a simple job to support their family. Disgusting.
- moralistic US drug policy
- cowardly US gun culture
- insane US agriculture subsidization
that puts people like Guzman in power.
The thought that lazy, cowardly, imbecilic Americans are tut-tutting poor, hard-working Mexican farmers just looking for work makes me want to throw up. We caused their job loss, and then we judge and vilify them when they try to find a simple job to support their family. Disgusting.
2
May we suggest Mr. Penn next select ISIS Caliph Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi as an interview subject.
7
These days it is hard for the discerning reader to truly know the difference between journalism and entertainment.
4
From the article, about the photo:
"I ask to take a photograph together so that I could verify to my editors at Rolling Stone that the planned meeting had taken place. "Adelante," he says. We all rise from the table as a group and follow Chapo into one of the bungalows. I explain that, for authentication purposes, it would be best if we are shaking hands, looking into the camera, but not smiling. He obliges.]]
http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/features/el-chapo-speaks-20160109
"I ask to take a photograph together so that I could verify to my editors at Rolling Stone that the planned meeting had taken place. "Adelante," he says. We all rise from the table as a group and follow Chapo into one of the bungalows. I explain that, for authentication purposes, it would be best if we are shaking hands, looking into the camera, but not smiling. He obliges.]]
http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/features/el-chapo-speaks-20160109
The Mexican President, Enrique Peña Nieto, and all of his allies boasted the capture of El Chapo, congratulated the military, and highlighted that the capture of the kingpin demonstrates that Mexican government institutions are as solid as Pamela Anderson's rack in 1992. Nonetheless Penn states that right before meeting El Chapo for the first time "...we arrive at a military checkpoint. Two uniformed government soldiers, weapons at the ready, approach our vehicle. Alfredo lowers his passenger window; the soldiers back away, looking embarrassed, and wave us through."
Any thoughts Enrique?
Any thoughts Enrique?
1
Isn't it great that we have celebrities who can also be journalists without all that stupid education and experience? I can't WAIT until we can have celebrity surgeons, astronauts, engineers, physicists! I bet Sean Penn splits an atom next!
9
You think people need some sort of license to write?
7
@ Fern: Not a license. Common sense would be enough, something Sean Penn obviously lacks.
4
How many people was Guzman responsible for killing since Sean Penn did his little interview in October, and then decided not to tell anyone? I'd bet that Sean Penn has blood on his hands.
3
Being grossly overpaid tends to destroy one's character.
America's actors have gotten way too big for their britches.
I would sooner have my plumber, diesel mechanic, or UPS driver "investigating" the drug issue, because I suspect that they know a lot more about the world than Sean Penn.
Just who does he think he is?
America's actors have gotten way too big for their britches.
I would sooner have my plumber, diesel mechanic, or UPS driver "investigating" the drug issue, because I suspect that they know a lot more about the world than Sean Penn.
Just who does he think he is?
7
Sean Penn.
4
Penn's ethical position is interesting, but I'm thinking "hero." Cartel-related violence has obviously rained hell on Mexico. But it's not so black hat/white hat, and that's Penn's whole point.
As he tells it in RS, the last checkpoint on their long journey to El Chapo was manned by "two uniformed government soldiers" who waived them through when they saw Guzman's son in the car. Once again, events make plain the staggering truth that the cartel and the Mexican government/police are intertwined in ways that will be hard to untangle (not breaking news, I know).
And on this side of the border? The state and federal price tag for the "war" on drugs is 40 BILLION dollars per year (as of 2010). Yes, ladies and germs, that's your tax dollars at work! Even so, drug violence thrives addicts are likelier to find a bed in prison or the morgue than they are to find effective treatment. Meanwhile, U.S. citizens spend something like $100 billion dollars annually on illegal drugs (supplied by... guess who?), while from their high horses our "leaders" steadfastly oppose all reform efforts and refuse to admit the obvious fact that the war on drugs is an abject failure. What is the explanation for this outrageous and surreal situation? Aren't we, in our own way, also in bed with the cartel? Naaah, let's blame it all on El Chapo and Sean Penn.
As he tells it in RS, the last checkpoint on their long journey to El Chapo was manned by "two uniformed government soldiers" who waived them through when they saw Guzman's son in the car. Once again, events make plain the staggering truth that the cartel and the Mexican government/police are intertwined in ways that will be hard to untangle (not breaking news, I know).
And on this side of the border? The state and federal price tag for the "war" on drugs is 40 BILLION dollars per year (as of 2010). Yes, ladies and germs, that's your tax dollars at work! Even so, drug violence thrives addicts are likelier to find a bed in prison or the morgue than they are to find effective treatment. Meanwhile, U.S. citizens spend something like $100 billion dollars annually on illegal drugs (supplied by... guess who?), while from their high horses our "leaders" steadfastly oppose all reform efforts and refuse to admit the obvious fact that the war on drugs is an abject failure. What is the explanation for this outrageous and surreal situation? Aren't we, in our own way, also in bed with the cartel? Naaah, let's blame it all on El Chapo and Sean Penn.
12
Why cares what a Hollywood leftist thinks? Sean Penn has just become example A of why these people should not testify before Congress, as Democrats often do, and why Republicans should not have Clint Eastwood speak at their convention. Actors read other people's writings, nothing more.
That said, anyone should have known better than to meet with such a contemptible human being as "El Chapo". One would have to have minimal to no moral standards to meet with or publish such an article, with the possible exception of a prison interview.
That said, anyone should have known better than to meet with such a contemptible human being as "El Chapo". One would have to have minimal to no moral standards to meet with or publish such an article, with the possible exception of a prison interview.
3
A movie star interviews a billionaire drug criminal for Rolling Stone. To what end? That’s not news. Its entertainment. And it comes at a time when Americans are struggling with a myriad of problems including unemployment, affordable healthcare, affordable housing, cost of living to name just a few. Next time Mr. Penn, write about something that helps people.
7
The entertainment-focused psychology of the general public goes a long way toward explaining the farce which continues to unfold in the current Presidential primaries.
2
Shaun Penn is cool. He did amazing stuff in Haiti. It's probably been noted, but what are the legal ramifications for meeting with a fugitive and not informing law enforcement beforehand?
We should admire El Chapo. He is a successful businessman selling a product in high demand. He is no different that the CEOs of tobacco, and beer wine, and spirits companies, or real estate development companies (e.g. Donald Trump).
4
Say what? Different, very different. It is illegal for one.
1
Another story on the NYT website says Kate became an American citizen last fall. What's that all about?
The hand-wringing comments from the peanut galley are ridiculous. Sean Penn is a American cultural icon, now more than ever. Because an artist meets with a person doesn't mean they endorse that person. I stunned so many Americans --- reading the New York Times, no less --- are willing to charge an artist with guilt-by-association.
What a timid bunch!
What a timid bunch!
5
How many people has Guzman killed since Penn did his interview in October, and decided not to contact the authorities? Did you give any thought to that?
4
Back in the day when "the bad dictator" Batista controlled Cuba, the New York Times thrilled its readers with interviews of Fidel Castro by the late Tad Szulc. Those interviews occurred in the thick jungle of Cuba's south eastern mountains. Szulc went on to write a critically acclaimed book about Castro, and no ill befell Szulc other than his dying of natural causes almost 15 years ago.
Clearly in these days of citizen journalism, Sean Penn sees himself as a modern day Tad Szulc. Batista was never in a position to harm Szulc for his reporting and the U.S. government never bothered.
So let life go on and perhaps the leaders of ISIS and Al Quaida will be jealous of the publicity El Chapo has received, and want to be interviewed and published by Western journalists too, hopefully with the same consequence.
Clearly in these days of citizen journalism, Sean Penn sees himself as a modern day Tad Szulc. Batista was never in a position to harm Szulc for his reporting and the U.S. government never bothered.
So let life go on and perhaps the leaders of ISIS and Al Quaida will be jealous of the publicity El Chapo has received, and want to be interviewed and published by Western journalists too, hopefully with the same consequence.
2
Actually, I wouldn't mind at all seeing Sean Penn, the new celebrity, hard-hitting journalist, travel to Syria and try to interview the leaders of ISIS. How do you suppose that would go? Do you imagine they'd let him leave with his head still intact?
1
Actually, in the photograph, el Chapo looks like a clean cut Mexican movie producer, and Sean Penn looks like a street-savvy drug lord....
5
It is insane to try to eliminate the drug business. It will live for ever. Illegal or legal.
And so, the answer is clear ....
And so, the answer is clear ....
3
Subliminally, this guy had to have wanted to be caught, otherwise you just don't give out interviews. How dumb a drug mogul can you be?
I think it was the woman. She's gorgeous and El Chapo my have wanted to get something going with her. Maybe Penn too.
I think it was the woman. She's gorgeous and El Chapo my have wanted to get something going with her. Maybe Penn too.
2
Judging from the RS story I think you are right, especially Penn who gushes about her "bravery."
The same predictable fascists attacking Penn would be recommending Ted Nugent for canonization, had he managed this interview.
Does any adult take these tiresome people seriously any more?
Does any adult take these tiresome people seriously any more?
3
Shawn Penn is a pimp for even talking to this monster murderer and just looking for publicity to further his aging career. Knowing his whereabouts and not turning him in is aiding and abetting a fugitive, Hope they can find something to charge him with.
4
He shook hands with El Chapo? "Will all great Neptune’s ocean wash this blood
Clean from my hand? No, this my hand will rather the multitudinous seas incarnadine, making the green one red."
Clean from my hand? No, this my hand will rather the multitudinous seas incarnadine, making the green one red."
3
Anybody can meet with a fugitive and does nothing illegal as long as they don't take affirmative action to hide them or to keep them hidden.
1
So who is Sean Penn: A former movie star turned NGO director moonlighting as a journalist; Or, really an actor looking for his next script while canoodling with Charlize Theron? How does he rationalize his associations and actions when it involves greeting a purveyor of social drug diseases that continues to kill so many?
4
While all of what you are suggesting may well be true, I would still caution you to heed your own advice as expressed in your choice of a display-name.
Sean Penn has, perhaps inadvertently, cast the spotlight on how Mexico has become the new narco-state replacing Colombia of the 1980s. What this says is that the so-called "War on Drugs" like so many other "War on [fill in the blank]" has been a complete bust even if the current billionaire drug kingpin has himself been busted due it seems to his publicity-driven contact with Mr. Penn. Clearly, Mr. Guzman's life story indicates that Mexico is an economic and social disaster now mostly under the control of mobsters like him who routinely order the murder mayors and other public officials who oppose them. And, just as importantly, it's obvious that the U.S. still has a huge appetite for drugs and the need for effective policies to cope with them. Legalizing marijuana may be one positive step, but dealing with cocaine, heroin, and meth poses a more complex social problem. It's not just a Hollywood story or reality TV, it is the sad reality that confronts both the U.S. and Mexico.
3
Hey there is always Kim Jong Un. No, wait James Franco did that interview.
2
Sean Penn deserves a medal for getting El Chapo to incriminate himself.
Well done, sir!
Well done, sir!
4
This story is really about what it is to be a celebrity. Celebrities are no longer required to live within the law. They are too important and, based on what I see in the media, most people are willing to accept that. Title should be, "Celebrities From Two Ecosystems Converge to Become More Famous."
6
I hear I the US government is seething over the interview. Forget the free press and free speech guarantees - our government only wants people to hear their side - they don't want people to use their own brains because God forbid their may be other ways of looking at controversial issues than the Government approved line. Love that Kate del Castillo - she calls everyone out and thinks on her own - if you haven't watched La Reina del Sur on Netflix,, check it out. It gets better in later episodes - I wonder if funding and production values didn't
Increase over time accounting for what it thought was increased production quality over time.
Increase over time accounting for what it thought was increased production quality over time.
1
Sean Penn proves once again that he is a complete moron.
4
Another movie star to distract us from the serious business of electing a president. Wow, if Bernie Sanders just got a modicum of the press you are giving to Sean Penn, we might gain some serious information to make an informed decision.
2
Like others I'm stunned by this story. Finally something to amuse other than the GOP presidential candidates.
Incredible that Mr Penn would attempt to get inside the head of El Chapo. Incredible that El Chapo would allow such a meeting. Both took on extraordinary risks here.
To subject Mr. Penn to moral questioning is silly. Despite what El Chapo is and represents, Mr. Penn did not aide and abet El Chapo. He simply interviewed him. Having said that, no question now we will see a movie emerging from this odd but fascinating tale.
Incredible that Mr Penn would attempt to get inside the head of El Chapo. Incredible that El Chapo would allow such a meeting. Both took on extraordinary risks here.
To subject Mr. Penn to moral questioning is silly. Despite what El Chapo is and represents, Mr. Penn did not aide and abet El Chapo. He simply interviewed him. Having said that, no question now we will see a movie emerging from this odd but fascinating tale.
3
I wonder how the NYT would have reacted to an interview with this Drug Lord, hiding from Law enforcement, If Donald Trump had interviewed him?
2
This piece has stirred up so many anxieties...
I really don't know what to make of Sean Penn's adventure (for the lack of the better word). He is not an investigative journalist. At least, to my knowledge, he is not known for investigative reporting. But he must have known this was going to be a big story. And doing this under the Rolling Stone aegis makes me wonder whether the true motivation indeed was publicity/fame benefits that would ensue. Or was he hunting after the movie material? Also, it's not very clear from the article, but were Ms. del Castillo's tweets supportive of making a movie about Mr. Guzman or Mr. Guzman himself? And what's up with the handshake "for authentication" purposes? Are there no other methods of authentication? I don't know but this whole thing does not sit right with me.
The worst thing that freaked me out is another realization of corruption at all levels, from an ordinary policeman to powerful politicians spanning the globe that makes the cartels and people like Mr. Guzman rise in the first place. The corruption is the parasite that breeds within, at the corners of those very agencies and institutions that are supposed to generate and protect the law. So I guess the article did so something -- it reawakened anxiety over the system we inhabit and how much trouble we all are really in!
I really don't know what to make of Sean Penn's adventure (for the lack of the better word). He is not an investigative journalist. At least, to my knowledge, he is not known for investigative reporting. But he must have known this was going to be a big story. And doing this under the Rolling Stone aegis makes me wonder whether the true motivation indeed was publicity/fame benefits that would ensue. Or was he hunting after the movie material? Also, it's not very clear from the article, but were Ms. del Castillo's tweets supportive of making a movie about Mr. Guzman or Mr. Guzman himself? And what's up with the handshake "for authentication" purposes? Are there no other methods of authentication? I don't know but this whole thing does not sit right with me.
The worst thing that freaked me out is another realization of corruption at all levels, from an ordinary policeman to powerful politicians spanning the globe that makes the cartels and people like Mr. Guzman rise in the first place. The corruption is the parasite that breeds within, at the corners of those very agencies and institutions that are supposed to generate and protect the law. So I guess the article did so something -- it reawakened anxiety over the system we inhabit and how much trouble we all are really in!
4
What's the Mexican equivalent for "cherchez la femme"?
1
Sean Penn sought this contact with El Chapo out for purposes of selfish financial gain. In the process, he made substantial efforts to protect El Chapo from being located. As such, he was essentially aiding a fugitive in his escape from custody. I do not know whether that is a crime under these circumstances. Whether it should be a crime under these circumstances is a matter of individual opinion and ethical judgement on which I do not render opinion. I do, however, absolutely reject the claim that being a news reporter changes the the ethical judgement. And I absolutely reject the claim that Sean Penn was acting in the capacity of news reporter, even though an article was published. He was acting out of desire for financial gain.
4
"Sean Penn sought this contact with El Chapo out for purposes of selfish financial gain."
Absurd. Do you honestly believe Sean Penn couldn't find easier and infinitely safer ways to add to his already significant fortune?
You can't really believe what you're saying, so why say it?
Absurd. Do you honestly believe Sean Penn couldn't find easier and infinitely safer ways to add to his already significant fortune?
You can't really believe what you're saying, so why say it?
3
The drama queens here advising Kate del Castillo and Sean Penn to now watch their backs are forgetting that El Chapo volunteered to meet with them; their travel to his hideout, etc. was all done on El Chapo's terms. I would think they have little to fear, provided of course they did not deliberately set up El Chapo, which seems highly unlikely.
Much more likely to me is that the Mexican police have known of the guy's whereabouts all along, and the embarrassment of two movie stars so easily going to visit him forced their hand. Still, they were polite enough to time their raid to coincide with publication, perhaps at El Chapo's request.
Much more likely to me is that the Mexican police have known of the guy's whereabouts all along, and the embarrassment of two movie stars so easily going to visit him forced their hand. Still, they were polite enough to time their raid to coincide with publication, perhaps at El Chapo's request.
4
Obviously whoever is doing the NYT picks believes Sean Penn is a hero.
4
Par for the course. More stupid leftist tricks.
1
The Art of the Absurd.
We live in interesting times.
We live in interesting times.
1
My gut feeling is that Sean is being honest. The trouble is that the United States is the largest consumer of illicit drugs. We, the US have a big big problem. As a nation, we have been unable to address it. One of the problems is that psychological/psychyatric/mental health is unavailable to most folks. Our solution is to lock people up. We the richest people on earth we need to help our folks. Punishment/locking them up doesn't work.
6
Having sat still to collect my perspective for at least 24 hours, I think I can nail this one down.
This is a case study in the fuzzy boundary between "Pop Culture" on the one hand, and "Serious Stuff" on the other. This "fuzzy boundary" has both a cause and an effect. The cause is the competitive Media Circus, whereby the so-called "profession" of Journalism is held captive by the fact that whatever journalists actually "do" must perforce compete as a commodity in the marketplace. The result of the aforementioned "fuzzy boundary" is that the general public, or at least a sizable portion of that public born after 1970, cannot recognize the distinction between news and entertainment -- or news and advertising, for that matter. When the distinction is made too clear and even obvious, that considerable segment of the public tunes out the former and opts for the latter.
Rolling Stone is a typical case study of a Pop Culture magazine which has, for close onto half a century, sought to put a "Hip" spin on Serious Stuff. Do I recall some item way back in pre-history -- last Spring, it seems -- when that magazine's over-zealous and amateurish attempt at investigative journalism resulted in a sensational story which had to be retracted?
As for Sean Penn and is "humanitarian activities" which another commenter said he admires -- Sean Penn is a Hollywood celebrity, and nothing further need be said.
This is a case study in the fuzzy boundary between "Pop Culture" on the one hand, and "Serious Stuff" on the other. This "fuzzy boundary" has both a cause and an effect. The cause is the competitive Media Circus, whereby the so-called "profession" of Journalism is held captive by the fact that whatever journalists actually "do" must perforce compete as a commodity in the marketplace. The result of the aforementioned "fuzzy boundary" is that the general public, or at least a sizable portion of that public born after 1970, cannot recognize the distinction between news and entertainment -- or news and advertising, for that matter. When the distinction is made too clear and even obvious, that considerable segment of the public tunes out the former and opts for the latter.
Rolling Stone is a typical case study of a Pop Culture magazine which has, for close onto half a century, sought to put a "Hip" spin on Serious Stuff. Do I recall some item way back in pre-history -- last Spring, it seems -- when that magazine's over-zealous and amateurish attempt at investigative journalism resulted in a sensational story which had to be retracted?
As for Sean Penn and is "humanitarian activities" which another commenter said he admires -- Sean Penn is a Hollywood celebrity, and nothing further need be said.
2
So now we have the likes of Sean Penn and Kate del Castillo attempting to make a folk hero out of this decrepit individual. What part of the story don't they get?.. That he is responsible for the death, misery and dysfunction of thousands, upon thousands of families in the U.S., abroad and Mexico? Or perhaps it's the mystique of all that money, greed, power and vainglorious personality that intrigues Penn and Castillo toward this lowly, shadowy criminal. Oh, I get it, perhaps they see something in Chapo that they identify or find in themselves. Considering the "I wanna-be a big celebrity" perennial quest and eccentric egos of both Penn and del Castillo, that has to be the only rationale.
3
Sean Penn's a pretty good actor. The first movie I saw him in was The Falcon and the Snowman. I was impressed with his work--it gave me goosebumps--but I was a teenager. I've watched him since then, and, on several occasions, he's made me laugh. Occasionally, he's made me laugh out loud. He's never moved me to tears. Not many actors have.
I've heard Yo-Yo Ma play live several times, and thousands of times on recordings. Like so may classical and jazz musicians, he moves me in a way no actor ever could. If he decided to go play journalist, would I risk a single life to get him back? No.
Would you? What if it were Mozart, Beethoven, Shakespeare, playing war correspondent? Would you sacrifice a few lives then?
I've heard Yo-Yo Ma play live several times, and thousands of times on recordings. Like so may classical and jazz musicians, he moves me in a way no actor ever could. If he decided to go play journalist, would I risk a single life to get him back? No.
Would you? What if it were Mozart, Beethoven, Shakespeare, playing war correspondent? Would you sacrifice a few lives then?
Hypocrisy at its best. I'm surprised to see how you all condemn El Chapo for what he does to conduct his drug business and forget that you are the consumers of all his products and therefor his financial funding. If you stopped consuming the drugs he sends to this country there would be no reason for El Chapo or any other drug dealer to exist. For every ton of cocaine it's consumed in this country by you guys, in Mexico at least 10 people get murdered.
2
He's a murderer, many times over. You find it hypocritical that people actually condemn murderers? With all due respect, in what alternate reality do you reside?
2
Market capitalism at work..
1
Perhaps Penn is taking a chapter out from Chuck Barris play book....
Watch you back, Sean. The cartel can't be happy too with you.
3
Sean Penn is a clown, aiding and abetting criminals and dictators, skirting the law and should be charged for it. This is yet another example of entitlement of our celebrities epitomized by one of the most self-important and ineffective "global scale thinkers" as he likes to call himself.
7
Hollywood stars, porn stars, rock stars, sports stars, crime stars, and the Kardashians. All rubbing elbows in a sea of money.
8
Penn is nothing more than a Tool. He's a rich kid who was never hungry a day in his life and now he thinks he matters. Bulletin you don't!
7
Ahh, Hubris. One of humanities greatest sins. Here is a man whose escape has garnered worldwide coverage, who the Mexican Government has been trying to find with all their (much reduced) might, who almost every country in North and Central America has a stake in capturing, and what does he do in his spare time? Interviews celebrities and emails Hollywood about making a movie about himself! He is so deluded, so flushed with his success after escaping, that he thinks he can act with impunity. He feels as though he is invincible. And, like Icharus before him, it is while he feels he is at the height of his power that he flies too close to the sun, reaches for too much, and falls to his death, or in this case, capture. Pride comes before a fall, Mr. Guzman. You know that now more than anyone.
6
If it ever comes out that Penn and Kate del Castillo in anyway let authorities to Guzman, then I would expect a horrific end to each of their lives. Although I didn't pick it up in Penn's RS piece, not even sure Penn and del Castillo even legally entered Mexico, did they clear immigration or not?
2
Sean Penn and Rolling Stone might have been better able to defend their decision to write and publish an interview with El Chapo if the resulting article hadn't been such a turgid, unedited, self-indulgent piece of drivel.
12
Why is this news? If Geraldo had met El Chapo would it be the lead story?
2
Geraldo who?
1
No market no drugs. Stop using. Why is this illegal drug dealer any worse than the doctors writing prescription drugs for addicts? They're both about money and both must be stopped. I found the article interesting and was quite surprised he didn't spout corporate lies like those we hear every day by the Koch brothers, Monsanto, Dupont and other companies poisoning OUR food stream and environment.
5
I see. Drug dealers are okay because their addicts make them do it. Blame the victim much?
They are trashing Sean Penn around the web. I'm going to go out on the weak limb of 'an opinion' and say that he is almost a hero for doing what he did: making people angry so they can display their 'opinion'. He went into a jungle with armed hungry men. Would you do that? Does interviewing Manson make a person Manson? If I go and interview the cowboys in Oregon who stole a building, am I all at once a cowboy from Oregon? No, and y'all know it but it is Sean Penn. And you don't really tolerate him as he said at the awards, do you? No. You do not.
7
Since you mentioned (Charles) Manson, I am reminded of an early example of the "Hip-spin-on-Serious-Stuff" phenomenon, upon which I elaborated in a comment posted about 45 minutes more recently than yours to which I am replying.
A book called "The Family," by Ed Sanders, a 1971 book about the murder of Sharon Tate and others, was written in a style obviously pitching to a particular market niche, shall we say. Vincent Bugliosi's more mainstream book "Helter Skelter" was not written until 1974.
Ed Sanders is described in Wikipedia as a poet, writer, activist and former member of a musical group "The Fugs." Not to be too disparaging, I would classify him under the rubric of "Professional Beatnik" -- read his book "Tales of Beatnik Glory" and tell me if you think I am being unfair.
My comment 45 minutes ago, to which you are free to scroll or not scroll, was about the fuzzy boundary between pop culture and "serious stuff," a result of the commercial media circus which compromises many people's ability to separate serious information from entertainment.
A book called "The Family," by Ed Sanders, a 1971 book about the murder of Sharon Tate and others, was written in a style obviously pitching to a particular market niche, shall we say. Vincent Bugliosi's more mainstream book "Helter Skelter" was not written until 1974.
Ed Sanders is described in Wikipedia as a poet, writer, activist and former member of a musical group "The Fugs." Not to be too disparaging, I would classify him under the rubric of "Professional Beatnik" -- read his book "Tales of Beatnik Glory" and tell me if you think I am being unfair.
My comment 45 minutes ago, to which you are free to scroll or not scroll, was about the fuzzy boundary between pop culture and "serious stuff," a result of the commercial media circus which compromises many people's ability to separate serious information from entertainment.
In 1966, I saw Ed Sullivan ask each member of Steppenwolf who their favorite musicians were, and the bass player said, "The Fugs." Some pop culture icons are more iconic than others. He didn't say "Tiny Tim." The Fugs were a band which musicians wanted to be like. Robert Redford stays home and views Colorado through a large window and gets kudos for his politics. I don't see Sean Penn sipping tea and watching PBS. He's in a Jon boat rescuing flood victims. Serious floods, not entertaining floods.
Possible that once Sean Penn started talking about doing a story, there were leaks and Feds got on El Chapo's trail.
2
These articles on El Chapo show the incredible tunneling that is done on the border. My God even making sure that the “getaway” motorcycle could run in the low oxygen of those subterranean tunnels.
Thousands of these tunnels exist along the 1989 MILES of the Mexican-US border. Thousands!
So even if Il Trumpolinni builds this BEAUTIFUL wall it means nothing to the cartels! I love how El Chapo (Shorty) thinks of Il Trumpolinni as “Mi amigo!”--my friend! As for a wall? The cartels are already using medieval catapults to fling bales of weed over any border fence.
What a mess. And boy will this sell---TV series on Netflix or major motion picture. Andy Borowitz of the New Yorker has a wonderful column today about ISIS being afraid to meet with Sean Penn.
http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/isis-chief-abruptly-cance...
The comedy gods are lovin’ this, that’s for sure!
Thousands of these tunnels exist along the 1989 MILES of the Mexican-US border. Thousands!
So even if Il Trumpolinni builds this BEAUTIFUL wall it means nothing to the cartels! I love how El Chapo (Shorty) thinks of Il Trumpolinni as “Mi amigo!”--my friend! As for a wall? The cartels are already using medieval catapults to fling bales of weed over any border fence.
What a mess. And boy will this sell---TV series on Netflix or major motion picture. Andy Borowitz of the New Yorker has a wonderful column today about ISIS being afraid to meet with Sean Penn.
http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/isis-chief-abruptly-cance...
The comedy gods are lovin’ this, that’s for sure!
4
I don't understand why so many people are blaming Penn for the interview and El Chapo for drug addiction. People on this board seem to believe that we would have no drug addicted people in the US if it were not for El Chapo.
As for Penn, he got an interview while working as a free-lance journalist. That means his first amendment privileges apply. He has no obligation to share his private notes, but he did write a story that gave us first-hand background information on a man that many people here consider to be a mass murderer.
If I understand the criticism correctly: Penn is horrible for getting and sharing information with his readers. El Chapo is a killer because there are drugs addicts in this country who do not want and/or do not have access to drug treatment programs.
And the US and its citizens (including me) are completely blame free for electing people who think the answer lies in 1) Just say no; 2) prosecute a war on drugs that has cost trillions and has failed just like we failed to stop alcohol; 3) fill our prisons with a million people because they got caught with a joint in their pocket; 4) continue to elect local officials who make their bones on the backs of drug addicts or people who use recreational drugs.
Finally: All Americans Remain Blame Free! Do I have it right?
As for Penn, he got an interview while working as a free-lance journalist. That means his first amendment privileges apply. He has no obligation to share his private notes, but he did write a story that gave us first-hand background information on a man that many people here consider to be a mass murderer.
If I understand the criticism correctly: Penn is horrible for getting and sharing information with his readers. El Chapo is a killer because there are drugs addicts in this country who do not want and/or do not have access to drug treatment programs.
And the US and its citizens (including me) are completely blame free for electing people who think the answer lies in 1) Just say no; 2) prosecute a war on drugs that has cost trillions and has failed just like we failed to stop alcohol; 3) fill our prisons with a million people because they got caught with a joint in their pocket; 4) continue to elect local officials who make their bones on the backs of drug addicts or people who use recreational drugs.
Finally: All Americans Remain Blame Free! Do I have it right?
10
So you're saying that we should just let all drug traffickers go, because even if we arrest them there will still be drug abuse? Should we do the same with murderers (like Guzman)? What about rapists? How far does your world of anarchy go? And no, you apparently don't understand the criticism correctly. Guzman doesn't just kill people with the drugs he sells, he kills them with guns. Why aren't all the ardent leftists up in arms about El Chapo's guns?
1
So it is Mr.Guzman's noblest instinct - the instinct for meaning -that has led to his undoing. Ok, compromised by narcissism, but like any person of genuinely independent means, he was seeking an outlet for his mind. Drugs as a soothing way to pass the time was out - professional conflict. Travel was not an option. He has probably seen Broadchurch, or his personal equivalent. Funding medical research as a legacy would be awkward. Film making was it! So once again, 'twas Beauty Killed the Beast!
2
In terms of supply and demand, the 22 million (or is it 27 million?) drug users in the United States are the demand, while El Chapo and other crime figures are the supply or suppliers. A friend of mine from Mexico says that there are 36 million drug users in the U.S. I hope he's wrong.
Would that there be fewer than 2 million drug users in the United States, greatly reducing the demand so that the suppliers like El Chapo could go back and grow corn and beans for the masses in his country.
As for Sean Penn, why not interview a bellringer for the Salvation Army, someone who stands in cold weather in front of a grocery store collecting nickels, dimes and quarters for people in need? Aside from publicity, what possible benefit is there from interviewing Mexico's version of Al Capone?
Would that there be fewer than 2 million drug users in the United States, greatly reducing the demand so that the suppliers like El Chapo could go back and grow corn and beans for the masses in his country.
As for Sean Penn, why not interview a bellringer for the Salvation Army, someone who stands in cold weather in front of a grocery store collecting nickels, dimes and quarters for people in need? Aside from publicity, what possible benefit is there from interviewing Mexico's version of Al Capone?
4
It's edgy. Leftists love edgy.
I think there is no question that Mr. Penn’s endeavor here qualifies as journalism, whether or not he practices it as a career. The invocation by one commentor of Hunter S. Thompson is apt. Mr. Penn’s adventure, which doubtless entailed great personal risk, mirrors the New Journalism style that Thompson perfected. However, it also reeks of the smug certainty of the self-anointed that permeates that flawed style of reporting.
There is a fundamental incongruity at play here. Mr. Penn’s previous work in human rights is undeniably authentic. His work in Haiti was not that of a limousine liberal. He dedicated himself body and soul, mind and muscle, to bettering their plight. No outsider volunteers the time and toil that he did in Haiti without genuine compassion for the dispossessed. El Chapo, however, has been the leader of a movement that has used brutality to rob people of their most basic human right—to live. El Chapo comes out of this looking more like a folk hero who claims he was mostly harmless— a modern-day Butch Cassidy. Mr. Penn, unintentionally probably, acts as accomplice and cheapens the memory of El Chapo’s victims and his own good work.
There is a fundamental incongruity at play here. Mr. Penn’s previous work in human rights is undeniably authentic. His work in Haiti was not that of a limousine liberal. He dedicated himself body and soul, mind and muscle, to bettering their plight. No outsider volunteers the time and toil that he did in Haiti without genuine compassion for the dispossessed. El Chapo, however, has been the leader of a movement that has used brutality to rob people of their most basic human right—to live. El Chapo comes out of this looking more like a folk hero who claims he was mostly harmless— a modern-day Butch Cassidy. Mr. Penn, unintentionally probably, acts as accomplice and cheapens the memory of El Chapo’s victims and his own good work.
3
Trade and use of illegal narcotics is likely tied to most gun casualties in the US and Mexico. So the massive liberal hypocrisy is that it's OK to buy and use illegal drugs, financing everyone from El Chapo down to the local street hood who sells dope, but it's somehow the fault of legal gun owners, who object to unreasonable new restrictions, that those distributors, dealers and consumers shoot each other up for various reasons. Include in the casualty list most of northern Mexico's cultural fabric, and the many thousands of Latin American immigrants who have been killed or forced into drug trafficking as they try to reach the US. Liberals just need to stop buying drugs if they want to reduce gun casualties and gun violence.
Much like the influence of alcohol in traffic casualty reporting, we need legislation that forces monitoring of drug and alcohol use or trade in association with gun casualties. The NRA should fight for this so we can begin to see the real seed factors in the casualty statistics for which gun rights are generally blamed.
Much like the influence of alcohol in traffic casualty reporting, we need legislation that forces monitoring of drug and alcohol use or trade in association with gun casualties. The NRA should fight for this so we can begin to see the real seed factors in the casualty statistics for which gun rights are generally blamed.
2
There is no liberal hypocrisy that it's ok to buy and use drugs. That is a fantasy. People are individuals, with individual opinions.
It should be common knowledge that buying drugs is sponsoring murder on a grand scale. The number of deaths and the amount of mayhem required to give you your non-homegrown joint is a catastrophe. Recreational drug use is aiding and abetting untold horrors in Mexico and beyond. That has nothing to do with ones political affiliation.
It should be common knowledge that buying drugs is sponsoring murder on a grand scale. The number of deaths and the amount of mayhem required to give you your non-homegrown joint is a catastrophe. Recreational drug use is aiding and abetting untold horrors in Mexico and beyond. That has nothing to do with ones political affiliation.
1
This stupid PR stunt might get Mr Penn killed eventually!
1
I'd imagine Sean Penn is now in some serious, serious trouble with the US Government. El Chapo is not some folk hero. He's a brutal murderer. Read about what the Cartel did to María Santos Gorrostieta Salazar if you need further proof.
That being said, it is time to end the ridiculous War on Drugs which fuels this violence and mayhem in Mexico. The fact the US continues it is an utter disgrace.
That being said, it is time to end the ridiculous War on Drugs which fuels this violence and mayhem in Mexico. The fact the US continues it is an utter disgrace.
4
Penn had already cemented himself as a useful idiot for leftists and their destructive ideologies, his aggrandization of this murderous drug dealer is a new low.
3
Mr Loera you were going against big Pharma and they ain't going to let you do that. Next time sell drugs legally as there is money in it.
2
Penn and Castillo have taken the cognitive dissonance of position and celebrity to new heights. I hate to invoke Reductio ad Hitlerum, but Penn interviewed a monster of historical magnitude. . , because he thought it would be interesting and cool?
Thus Penn is the equivalent of Satan's servant. Never shall I invest in his work again.
Thus Penn is the equivalent of Satan's servant. Never shall I invest in his work again.
1
Only way to make a living. To the tune of many billions of dollars.
Guzman has been responsible for the murders of hundreds if not thousands in Mexico and through his criminal proxies in America many more here as well.
His vast illegal drug empire which has mostly targeted the U.S. population is a scourge of monumental proportions. It has been instrumental in destroying thousands upon thousands of lives in the grip of drug addiction while creating and sustaining a vast, brutal and murderous criminal infrastructure across America.
So back to a porous Mexican prison, and then possibly extradited to the United States. Life in prison in the U.S. is the likely outcome, or a death sentence that will likely never be carried out.
More grist for our feeding frenzy addicted media to enhance the stature of this beast.
Guzman has been responsible for the murders of hundreds if not thousands in Mexico and through his criminal proxies in America many more here as well.
His vast illegal drug empire which has mostly targeted the U.S. population is a scourge of monumental proportions. It has been instrumental in destroying thousands upon thousands of lives in the grip of drug addiction while creating and sustaining a vast, brutal and murderous criminal infrastructure across America.
So back to a porous Mexican prison, and then possibly extradited to the United States. Life in prison in the U.S. is the likely outcome, or a death sentence that will likely never be carried out.
More grist for our feeding frenzy addicted media to enhance the stature of this beast.
If he is extradited to the US it will be on the condition that the death penalty is not imposed.
It is sad that so many NYT commenters apparently do not support basic journalistic freedom. Yes, this was journalism. The fact the Penn also has careers as an actor, director, and screen writer does not change that. And by the way, this is hardly Penn's first work as a journalist: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sean-penn
3
Obviously Sean Penn now has to be very careful that El Chapo no longer is his friend but still lives n Mexico with many buddies. Also Madonna, recently having strengthened her old relationship with Sean Penn, could be in serious danger. Penn should have thought about these things a bit more.
At least the Drug Lord looks clean, groomed and well dressed. Penn looks like the sleazy one just emerging from a mountain jungle needing a clean-up. One cannot take these Hollywood people anywhere!
1
Totally and the farting, what about the farting? El Chapo had to be thinking that gringos are just plain nasty.
1
The US govt should jail Mr. Penn for pulling this stunt! Did he break any laws? Sadly, problably not. Was what he did immoral? I say YES!
Certainly, America's insatiable thirst for drugs is a big part of the picture. But it's still peripheral to the main attraction: a capitalist system that allows criminals like El Chapo (as well as our captains of industry, Wall Street financial thieves and many high government officials in both the US and Mexico) to live in outlandish luxury while the middle class loses ground by the hour and the poor suffer, with zero hope for their future.
People are quick to denounce Sean Penn and Rolling Stone. Obstructing an investigation? Hardly. It is worth remembering that they got El Chapo's confession on record. How successful does anyone think the DEA or Mexican military would have been with that?
1
Guzman said, "If he disappeared...it would make no difference to the drug business." That's basically the same excuse every Nazi henchman ever used.
Are you kidding? Sean Penn, interviews with the person most responsible for the drugs in the U.S. and horrible murders here in Mexico. Wow, Sean, you're right up there with Mel Gibson now in my book!
Is this the same Rolling Stone that published a fake rape fairy tale?
2
Right. They're doing journalism now.
The self-righteous tone of many commenters criticizing or just simply disliking Sean Penn is not surprising but revealing of the Puritanical and tunnel vision of American culture in which these commenters live and breath and subscum to the its blindness and ignorance. Sean Penn, at least, has kept his head above it.
When will Hollywood folks come to terms with the fact that they are nothing more than paid actors? If you publicize your private actions they cease to be altruistic.
1
Unlike all the self righteous judges of Sean Penn's character, it appears the object of their wrath, Penn himself, deliberated long and hard before he typed out the words that made up the well crafted and important story found in Rolling Stone. He doesn't shirk from addressing the ethical conflict of the subject matters and his legacy. But he does provide his own, valid arguments for why he agreed to do the interview. Which run much deeper and are more concerned with the impact of drugs and drug trade on society than the wholesale smears of the man by the pitchfork crowds here on the comment board.
2
I love the comment: "This is your brain on Hollywood." While it all seems beyond bizarre it's really pretty straightforward - the whiff of money will cause us to do almost anything. On Penn's and del Castillo's side, it's all about the money and fame they and some studios want; on Guzman's side, it's all about the money he has. Apparently his most recent audacious prison break severed even further his link to reality and boosted his confidence to achieve even more audacious activities. He is one sick ticket, trying to manipulate the court of public opinion to ensure that his folk hero status grows to mythical proportions and bolster his attempts of self-absolution by continuing his twisted claims of "economic justification" and denial of wrong-doing.
8
“One per contact, one per day, destroy, burn, buy, balancing levels of encryption, mirroring through Blackphones, anonymous email addresses, unsent messages accessed in draft form.” - Sean Penn describes using 'burn phones' to evade authorities as if he thinks he's a cast member of Homeland. Unlike fiction, the lives destroyed by El Chapo are REAL... and little real journalistic value comes from an interview and subsequent article written knowing El Chapo had the final say of what can stay in the piece.
Sordid for everyone involved. If anyone deserves to sink into the mire of his past it would be this villain....Put mr El Chapo away in a very deep max security hole and let us forget about him
Sean Penn ...from hunger....not the kind of publicity to support a legitimate artist....
Rolling Stone and the rest...... smut.... unworthy journalism
Sean Penn ...from hunger....not the kind of publicity to support a legitimate artist....
Rolling Stone and the rest...... smut.... unworthy journalism
El Chapo, meet El Stupido.....
2
My guess is Javier Bardem to play the lead in this movie...
1
If he is extradited to the US, he's finished, and he'll die in prison.
Sean Penn is repugnant. This mexican criminal doesn't deserve a footnote in history or barely a blurb in the newspaper.
Shaking his hand is dignifying this pos in a way that should never occur. Who the he double L does peen (haha, yes) think he is by injecting himself into this international issue????
Shaking his hand is dignifying this pos in a way that should never occur. Who the he double L does peen (haha, yes) think he is by injecting himself into this international issue????
Who the "double L" does he have to be? Does he need your permission?
Journalists have the right to tell all sides of a story and should never be obligated to do the work or even assist in the work of law enforcement. Since Sean Penn, in this case, is not a professional journalist but a Hollywood actor and world famous media figure, we can safely assume that this interview was setup towards building up hype for a future Hollywood movie release where Penn is either acting, directing or producing it. El Chapo is not going to do an interview for nothing including notoriety or publicity (he doesn't need it). He and his organization will expect something huge in return.
1
Sean Penn fancies himself as another "Che", so put him in the same cell with El Chapo and let them rot for the rest of their days.
Ironic that this man is being blamed for what prohibitionists have caused. Crime, death, despair. I guess Elvis Costello should write another song
"This years drug kingpin".
Prohibitionists create these folks as fast as the secret police (Narcs) can arrest them. What fool believes this will make any change besides more fighting, killing & torture for the money that prohibitionists dangle in front of the endless poor folk desperate to find a way to survive in the rigged capitalist system.
"This years drug kingpin".
Prohibitionists create these folks as fast as the secret police (Narcs) can arrest them. What fool believes this will make any change besides more fighting, killing & torture for the money that prohibitionists dangle in front of the endless poor folk desperate to find a way to survive in the rigged capitalist system.
This is OUTRAGEOUS. Sean Penn should be charged with aiding and abetting a felon as well as suffering from a very questionable sense of morality. ANd if I ha a subscription to Rolling Stone, I would be cancelling it immediately. This man, El Chapo, is a world class criminal who has contributed to death and addiction of thousands if not millions of people. Shame on the magazine and shame on the usually liberal Sean Penn. What? He thinks El Chapo is Robin Hood. Outrageous.
Why is it that so many people don't know what "aid and abet" means? Sean Penn did no such thing.
3
And the American left celebrates yet again another thug, violence, guns(when it's convenient and cool) and the tearing apart of families. I suppose I'm a bigot for stating the truth, right.
Who is more objectionable to our friends on the left, mass murdering drug trafficker "El Chapo" or Republican presidential candidate "The Donald"?
1
Obviously, both should be condemned in the strongest terms. Praising one while castigating the other is the height of hypocrisy.
Let's be perfectly clear. This is a Sean Penn publicity stunt. Nothing more. Nothing less. To those who admire him and Rolling Stone for the 'coup', spare us the sanctimony.
While the interview apparently took place last October, the timing of its release, the day after El Chapo is captured, should tell us all we need to know about Penn's attention-grabbing motives. It's the story of an entertainer posing as a journalist hired by a disgraced publication hoping to restore its credibility. El Chapo, Sean Penn and Rolling Stone: what sorry bed fellows the three make.
While the interview apparently took place last October, the timing of its release, the day after El Chapo is captured, should tell us all we need to know about Penn's attention-grabbing motives. It's the story of an entertainer posing as a journalist hired by a disgraced publication hoping to restore its credibility. El Chapo, Sean Penn and Rolling Stone: what sorry bed fellows the three make.
Pushing aside the moral and ethical concerns, I have to ask: Why would anyone be in a business that doesn't allow you to enjoy the fruits of your work? What does he got to show for it?
El Chapo was in perpetual hiding, was in constant fear of being caught and imprisoned; was in fear for his life and for his family's; could not move about the world (despite his owning a fleet of ships and airplanes), was stuck in a jungle and had to crawl through sewers to escape incarceration.
Maybe a better question is: Why would anyone want to be El Chapo?
El Chapo was in perpetual hiding, was in constant fear of being caught and imprisoned; was in fear for his life and for his family's; could not move about the world (despite his owning a fleet of ships and airplanes), was stuck in a jungle and had to crawl through sewers to escape incarceration.
Maybe a better question is: Why would anyone want to be El Chapo?
1
There's a lot of outrage here that a pair of actors did this interview and provided a platform to an individual, likely sociopathic, who nevertheless has made a huge, though damaging impact on millions. There are far fewer comments noting the failed "war on drugs". This seems to indicate that NYT readers are more offended by a single report than the reality of failed policy. This says a lot about the readers.
1
What on earth is Rolling Stone thinking? A credible publications does not use stunt "journalists" like Sean Penn to do its reporting. Journalists -- real ones -- do not submit questions in advance, and they do not allow the subject of the interview to review the story before publication. Thank you, Rolling Stone and Sean Penn, for further trashing the already diminished public perceptions of journalism today.
2
The questions which necessarily arise from this interview are numerous: Should Mr Penn have tipped off the authorities on the approximate location of El Chapo's hiding place? Quite possibly, but he himself acknowledges the risk that would have come with such a decision. Further, what about the ethics of giving such wide space to someone who has now admitted that he is a egregious criminal? It was also noted that Mr Guzman had final approval over the text of the interview: Did Mr Penn, knowing this, self-censor himself when questioning El Chapo? Only Mr Penn can tell the wider public in his own words. Finally, there is the issue of cross-promotion - tasteless as this term may be: El Chapo got prime journalistic real estate in a widely read and quoted magazine centred on pop culture to present himself as a narco-entrepreneur of sorts who only uses armed force and murder in anticipatory self-defense. Mr Penn gains publicity for interviewing the Pablo Escobar of the 21st century - and, in the article, he expands on his image as a rebel with a cause showing the proverbial finger to the establishment. But at what ethical price? I feel he severely misjudged this situation. Luckily, El Chapo has been apprehended. But there will sadly be others that will take his place until this war on drugs is won by the state becoming a competitor in the market (and taxing drugs). And those future El.Chapos will have been given comfort by this star treatment. A sad affair, indeed.
1
I am more concerned by the comments and the language that targets others, blames the journalist, casts criminal blame for something journalist routinely and are protected by the first amendment. These reactions speak clearly to the growing ignorance, rejection of reasoned discernment and bigoted disassociation our support of policies the allow deregulation of the sale of highly addictive and dangerous prescriptive drugs and under regulation of solutions to drug addictions, conservatives love free market. Well this is really what supplying an addictive nation looks like. An addictive nation that continued to grow without much disruption from a government that does engage in the public good unless it applies criminal solutions that solve nothing. Most commenters need to hold up the mirror and look closely to see the ugly truth of how we have truly become ugly Americans that enjoy pointing and blaming more than first themselves, then their families, neighbors and imperfect strangers in trouble because there is no longer any care about caring for each other .
Guzman is very astute and stated an economic reality of mexico: , he said it was a reality “that drugs destroy. Unfortunately, as I said, where I grew up there was no other way and there still isn’t a way to survive, no way to work in our economy to be able to make a living.” If he disappeared, he said, it would make no difference to the drug business.
SO we either have to change our policy on Mexicans entering the country to work because they can not make a living where they are or realize that Guzman is not putting a gun to anyone's head and making them do drugs. Or both.
Gambling destroys, we regulate that industry, alcohol destroys, we regulate that industry, tobacco can kill you but people love to smoke so that industry is regulated, guns destroy oh oops, we have fallen short on our responsibilities.....
And all the criticism of Sean Penn is ridiculous, do you smoke pot? Fess up to yourself at least. How about your friends? Any one you know have a kid/spouse/ relative with a drug habit? Not serious, not a problem, just you know a habit, like every weekend or after work or before your volleyball game. What's going on the night clubs in your town? Recreational entertainment use of drugs? Well Las Vegas is FULL of recreational entertainment and it is regulated. Seems to me that people enjoy using drugs and will get them whether Guzman sells them or some one else does.
SO we either have to change our policy on Mexicans entering the country to work because they can not make a living where they are or realize that Guzman is not putting a gun to anyone's head and making them do drugs. Or both.
Gambling destroys, we regulate that industry, alcohol destroys, we regulate that industry, tobacco can kill you but people love to smoke so that industry is regulated, guns destroy oh oops, we have fallen short on our responsibilities.....
And all the criticism of Sean Penn is ridiculous, do you smoke pot? Fess up to yourself at least. How about your friends? Any one you know have a kid/spouse/ relative with a drug habit? Not serious, not a problem, just you know a habit, like every weekend or after work or before your volleyball game. What's going on the night clubs in your town? Recreational entertainment use of drugs? Well Las Vegas is FULL of recreational entertainment and it is regulated. Seems to me that people enjoy using drugs and will get them whether Guzman sells them or some one else does.
1
I can't imagine why anyone who doesn't need to, would want to meet with one of the most notorious and dangerous criminals in the world. Clearly this could be very dangerous to one's health. As well, I don't like the handshake between Sean Penn and El Chapo, a man who as the news reports state, is responsible for the deaths of some 34,000 people. I would not want to touch that hand. Sean Penn, you are on the wrong side. Your time and energy is needed by the relatives of victims of drug lords.
1
It's interesting that Mr. Guzman was inundated with offers from filmmakers while he was incarcerated. Our interest in and admiration of criminals almost matches our thirst for drugs. One of the earliest silent movies was The Great Train Robbery (1903) showing the exploits of robbers and had the exciting addition of a shoot-out with police. Audiences were thrilled by it. Ever since, we've made celebrities of criminals. It's fitting that an actor would be the person to interview Mr. Guzman, who is already a star. El Chapo will be even more popular when the movie of his life is released, and who knows how many people will be inspired to follow in his footsteps? Hurray for Hollywood.
1
What was penn's point. Was this some investigated journalism which would have revealed the human side or the justification of the drug lord. He's a killer who beheaded, burned, shot his way to the top of the drug lords. The trail of killings are over 100,000. Many of these people, men, women and children were innocent people who refused to join his gang. He was not Robin Hood but just another killer but on a massive scale.
Sean Penn: another pathetic, soulless "tough guy" wannabe. Leonard Bernstein. Norman Mailer. Robert De Niro. Martin Scorcese. Ted Nugent. Donald Trump.
People seem so surprised at this, but it isn't the first time that celebrities and even politicians have rubbed elbows with the wealthy and powerful criminal element, both socially and for their common interests. It's been going on for decades.
Not knowing Mr. Penn's actual motivations for this meeting, or the type of movie he intends to make about Guzmán, drug cartels and trafficking, and government corruption on both sides of the border, I'll reserve judgement for the time being.
Not knowing Mr. Penn's actual motivations for this meeting, or the type of movie he intends to make about Guzmán, drug cartels and trafficking, and government corruption on both sides of the border, I'll reserve judgement for the time being.
I spent some time with Sean Penn when he was with Madonna. Not too bright, and a self-hating American. It's not unusual that he would shake the hand of a mass killer.
How are people so certain that Sean Penn did not in fact notify the authorities, in fact for all we know it was only because he did notify the authorities that Guzman is in custody today. However since he has no desire to die he would never in his right mind admit to being the one who dropped the dime on a still very rich and powerful El Chapo.
The point is that if he did notify the authorities he certainly would never give any impression that he did. So on what basis is he being accused of keeping his contacts with El Chapo secret. Sean Penn is the only one who knows whether he contacted the authorities, and since he values his life he can never tell, at least not for a very long time.
The point is that if he did notify the authorities he certainly would never give any impression that he did. So on what basis is he being accused of keeping his contacts with El Chapo secret. Sean Penn is the only one who knows whether he contacted the authorities, and since he values his life he can never tell, at least not for a very long time.
1
So many poor Mexicans can never DREAM of just having a stable, middle class life with enough food to eat. It will never happen.
But they CAN dream of going around the system that has served them so abysmally, by becoming an outlaw like Chapo, suddenly blessed with everything our consumerist society tells them matters in life: gorgeous women, la dolce vita and a Mt. Everest of cash. Or at least, they can live vicariously through him.
That hardly makes this brutal gangster a hero, but there is a LOT of blame to go around.
But they CAN dream of going around the system that has served them so abysmally, by becoming an outlaw like Chapo, suddenly blessed with everything our consumerist society tells them matters in life: gorgeous women, la dolce vita and a Mt. Everest of cash. Or at least, they can live vicariously through him.
That hardly makes this brutal gangster a hero, but there is a LOT of blame to go around.
1
Imagine a stronger force telling the U.S. that they have to stop, end, eradicate their second biggest economic......
From a Harvard Study: Read and learn
"It is well known that the drug trade in Mexico represents one of the biggest industries in that country, accounting for as much as $991 million dollars per year. The 2006 drug seizure of over $206 million in cash, the fortune of Zhenli Yen Gon, an ostentatious drug smuggler, was approximately equivalent to the whole budget of the Mexican General Attorney Office for three months (CDHCU 2006) and was the largest seizure of drug money anywhere in the world (Shenon 2007).
That the drug trade generates so much revenue in Mexico raises a set of crucial questions about the rationale and efficiency of that country’s efforts to eliminate the industry. If -as some have estimated (Chabat as cited by Ánderson 2007)- drug trafficking is one of the ten most important industries of the country, a serious analysis should be undertaken before dismembering it. After all, drug dollars are also dollars and drugs also an industry, one that introduces large capital flows into the country, generating employment, fostering consumption and sprinkling resources to other legal industries [for example, the construction industry of many cities are boosted by the exotic housing preferences of drug smugglers (López 2007)]. In other words, is Mexico winning or losing by having such a successful -but illegal- industry as part of its economy?"
From a Harvard Study: Read and learn
"It is well known that the drug trade in Mexico represents one of the biggest industries in that country, accounting for as much as $991 million dollars per year. The 2006 drug seizure of over $206 million in cash, the fortune of Zhenli Yen Gon, an ostentatious drug smuggler, was approximately equivalent to the whole budget of the Mexican General Attorney Office for three months (CDHCU 2006) and was the largest seizure of drug money anywhere in the world (Shenon 2007).
That the drug trade generates so much revenue in Mexico raises a set of crucial questions about the rationale and efficiency of that country’s efforts to eliminate the industry. If -as some have estimated (Chabat as cited by Ánderson 2007)- drug trafficking is one of the ten most important industries of the country, a serious analysis should be undertaken before dismembering it. After all, drug dollars are also dollars and drugs also an industry, one that introduces large capital flows into the country, generating employment, fostering consumption and sprinkling resources to other legal industries [for example, the construction industry of many cities are boosted by the exotic housing preferences of drug smugglers (López 2007)]. In other words, is Mexico winning or losing by having such a successful -but illegal- industry as part of its economy?"
1
Sean is a hero - he informed the authorities - his claims to the contrary are a smoke screen. He's a brave patriot and he truly cares about the poor.
3
you might have a career in comedy.
2
In deed- The devil makes time for idol hands. In think Sean Penn "jumped the shark," on this one.
So Penn could find him but the US and Mexican authorities initially could not? Penn should be serving time with hid new found friend.
The reason there are no other ways to survive, as El Chapo claims, is that the drug lords run everything, and own all the politicians. Shame on him.
Should Nate Thayer, an American correspondent for the weekly magazine Far Eastern Economic Review be tossed in prison for interviewing his subject in a remote guerrilla camp in Anlong Veng, Cambodia?
The interviewee was Pol Pot.
(I'd ask conservatives to quit embarrassing themselves, but that would be a waste of breath.)
The interviewee was Pol Pot.
(I'd ask conservatives to quit embarrassing themselves, but that would be a waste of breath.)
Sean Penn and Hollywood can find him, but US and Mexico authorities couldnt?
1
Truth is stranger than fiction.
You couldn't make up this stuff, too outlandish.
You couldn't make up this stuff, too outlandish.
1
To those who say Penn aided and abetted a criminal:
Say what? Penn got El Chapo to incriminate himself, something Mexican and American law enforcement has been failing at for decades. The videos and other evidence which Penn collected are admissible at trial.
Penn actually HELPED law enforcement. He should get an award for his efforts.
Say what? Penn got El Chapo to incriminate himself, something Mexican and American law enforcement has been failing at for decades. The videos and other evidence which Penn collected are admissible at trial.
Penn actually HELPED law enforcement. He should get an award for his efforts.
4
publicity for penn, guzman, future film projects, rolling stone -- at the expense of morality. another job well done by the foibles of human nature.
Way to go Sean. Giving a mass murderer and immoral drug dealer and yourself publicity so you can profit from the interview and a potential movie. What an incredible role model you are...not. Never will I pay to see any of your movies or efforts at glorifying violence. Why did you not help the authorities capture this man? Why are you not under arrest for something as in aiding and abetting? I guess you too are above the law or perhaps you making a drug buy for your personal use. Your actions are beyond redemption.
First off, major props to Sean Penn for conducting an interview with the notorious kingpin 'El Chapo' amidst uncertainty of harm. I'm not going to go in-depth about the journalistic take of this interview, but more so about the statements Mr. Guzmán made about his take on his 'business'. At an early age, Mr. Guzmán began to show a sportsmanship in business, and soon began to sell drugs as a means to support his family. Although he could've taken a more sophisticated route towards success, in Mexico, where the rate of poverty is minimally still increasing, his immoral actions are a response to Mexico's inability to provide the lower class, more than half the population of Mexico, with more opportunities to a better future. My parents have told me stories about townspeople praising to 'El Chapo', a figurative symbol of success from pesos to riches in the eyes of the poor. Mr. Guzmán also seems to be self-aware of the effect of his business on others, noting that his drugs "destroy". His lifestyle is a contradiction of living in the deterioration of others. There is a real issue within the country of Mexico. Poverty is what Mexico should be focusing on, a subject that has a direct correlation with crime and drugs. 'El Chapo' is the by-product of Mexico's ignorance on the lower class. A bit of a stretch, but a justifiable conclusion. His absence won't affect the drug business and it's only a matter of time until a new kingpin rises unless Mexico wakes up and takes force.
U.S. journalists constantly interview some of the worst criminals still at large. Look at all the air time Dick Cheney continues to get.
1
Poor Sean Penn, looking either very sheepish or struggling with dysentery while shaking hands with a dangerous criminal, now being assassinated by the press. It sounds like El Chapo instigated an interview with an actress - understandably avoiding the press - and Sean Penn saw a fascinating opportunity and took it. This interview might otherwise never have happened, and I appreciate the glimpse into an industry that ought to embarrass governments everywhere. Hopefully some good will come of it, but as long as the infinite demand from the United States exists, such men will languish in wealth and power.
1
Penn must have recreating his days as the character "Snowman" from the film "The Falcon and Snowman". How cool!
1
It never fails. Hollywood and Penn wants to glamorize this guy who is responsible for the deaths of thousands of people. His hit squads have murdered countless people in Mexico with their AK-47's not to mention all the overdose fatalities in the United States. His "sicarios" have hung people from bridges, decapitated opposing cartel members....you name it. If Penn could be indicted for collaborating with a wanted Federal felon, it would be appropriate.
Guzman is guilty. But you americans supply the guns, and launder the money. Please buy a good mirror and place it in front of your face. Sorry to inform you that you share the guilt. You are not victims of el Chapo, you are colaborators.
4
I cannot decide whether the photo of Dennis Rodman with North Korea's leader or this photo of Sean Penn shaking Mr. Guzman's hand gets the grand prize of a celebrity out of his depth making a fool of himself. In both cases, it is disappointing and sheds more light on the character of the celebrity than the sociopath North Korean leader or the drug dealing mass murderer Mr. Penn is shaking hands with.
Love all the fake outrage at Sean Penn. Half the commenters barely know who he is and the other half enjoy his movies. But bandwagons are so compelling!
3
Maybe Penn can interview Bush and Cheney next as long as he is comfortable hanging out with people who exploit the world using lies, chaos and destruction to build a personal empire.
2
We spend more on defense than the next nine countries combined and we can't keep drugs from coming into this country. I find that notion laughable.
1
This is truly disgusting. A movie star/director and a female movie star interview a murderer and drug king pin and think it's really cool. I think Mr. Penn is an attention seeker as is his cohort. They love to hobnob with the famous if not righteous. Headlines are shared equally. Shaking hands for the sake of authenticity is doubly revolting. What purpose did this interview serve?
Read the interview:
We are the consumers, and as such, we are complicit in every murder, and in every corruption of an institution's ability to protect the quality of life for citizens of Mexico and the United States that comes as a result of our insatiable appetite for illicit narcotics.
As much as anything, it's a question of relative morality. What of the tens of thousands of sick and suffering chemically addicted Americans, barbarically imprisoned for the crime of their illness? Locked down in facilities where unspeakable acts of dehumanization and violence are inescapable, and murder a looming threat. Are we saying that what's systemic in our culture, and out of our direct hands and view, shares no moral equivalency to those abominations that may rival narco assassinations in Juarez? Or, is that a distinction for the passive self-righteous?
We are the consumers, and as such, we are complicit in every murder, and in every corruption of an institution's ability to protect the quality of life for citizens of Mexico and the United States that comes as a result of our insatiable appetite for illicit narcotics.
As much as anything, it's a question of relative morality. What of the tens of thousands of sick and suffering chemically addicted Americans, barbarically imprisoned for the crime of their illness? Locked down in facilities where unspeakable acts of dehumanization and violence are inescapable, and murder a looming threat. Are we saying that what's systemic in our culture, and out of our direct hands and view, shares no moral equivalency to those abominations that may rival narco assassinations in Juarez? Or, is that a distinction for the passive self-righteous?
2
Dark. Is there a way to say it that doesn't recommend suicide? We're looking for inspiration. As always.
Isn't having this interview some sort of crime, like aiding and abetting a criminal? I think Sean Penn should be in some hot water.
No, it isn't.
1
Does not the interviewer maybe realize that the subject of the interview may now have subsequently (and incorrectly?) concluded that there was a set up?
If an individual has the wherewithal to marshal an impressive cache of resources in the plying of regular tradecraft - including, at need, a mile long underground tunnel - might not the (unwittingly duped?) interviewer be newly concerned for that wherewithal seeking now to direct those obviously competent and clandestine resources in a manner of... well... retribution?
Just how carefully was our conspicuously clever cat keeping count as it cavalierly clicked through life number eight?
If an individual has the wherewithal to marshal an impressive cache of resources in the plying of regular tradecraft - including, at need, a mile long underground tunnel - might not the (unwittingly duped?) interviewer be newly concerned for that wherewithal seeking now to direct those obviously competent and clandestine resources in a manner of... well... retribution?
Just how carefully was our conspicuously clever cat keeping count as it cavalierly clicked through life number eight?
If El Chapo was so concerned about joblessness in his country, and if he recognized the damage done by drugs, why hasn't he, with his vast pile of money, attempted to change life for his countrymen by investing in legal business? Why hasn't he built factories, or invested in young people with scholarships, or donated to universities or hospitals or provided venture capital to Mexican tech star ups? It's too bad for the Mexican people, who might have invented the next killer app or space rocket or electric car.
What? No police force could find him, but Sean Penn did? What's wrong with this picture?
2
Interesting...appalled about it at first reading...but now thinking: is this any different than any other reporter going "behind the lines" to report a story about an enemy we seek? Bin Laden was interviewed, Hitler was interviewed, and I think Bonnie and Clyde were.
We will probably never know the whole arrangement nor some parts of what was said by either Guzman or Penn due to 1, the threat of retribution by the Guzman forces, 2 the classification of information that some government officials will claim is necessary for security purposes or purposes of further law enforcement action in the drug interdiction process and 3, the total embarrassment of the Mexican government.
If anything, it has forced a move to extradition and who knows, may well have contributed to Guzman's recapture. Now the ball moves to the American Court (pun intended) called our justice system. I am surprised that some in the GOP have not begun scaring us with fears that our system will not work, our maximum jails and prisons are incapable of holding hmm and he should be sent to Guantanamo without rights or a trial. After all, he is not an American citizen to my knowledge and is just as dangerous as any of Muslims already there. He has destroyed the lives of thousands if not tens of thousands of American lives and now has openly admitted it to Penn on video and in documented statements.
I personally hope he gets a fair trial by jury in the USA, is convicted and then rots in jail for life.
We will probably never know the whole arrangement nor some parts of what was said by either Guzman or Penn due to 1, the threat of retribution by the Guzman forces, 2 the classification of information that some government officials will claim is necessary for security purposes or purposes of further law enforcement action in the drug interdiction process and 3, the total embarrassment of the Mexican government.
If anything, it has forced a move to extradition and who knows, may well have contributed to Guzman's recapture. Now the ball moves to the American Court (pun intended) called our justice system. I am surprised that some in the GOP have not begun scaring us with fears that our system will not work, our maximum jails and prisons are incapable of holding hmm and he should be sent to Guantanamo without rights or a trial. After all, he is not an American citizen to my knowledge and is just as dangerous as any of Muslims already there. He has destroyed the lives of thousands if not tens of thousands of American lives and now has openly admitted it to Penn on video and in documented statements.
I personally hope he gets a fair trial by jury in the USA, is convicted and then rots in jail for life.
Amid all this outrage, let's not forget freedom of the press.
1
That's not in question, any more than people questioning media outlets not disclosing rape victims names. We're talking about propriety here.
The line between the violence in the media as entertainment and people's real life behavior is becoming increasingly indistinct. That is worth questioning.
The line between the violence in the media as entertainment and people's real life behavior is becoming increasingly indistinct. That is worth questioning.
Man, Sean Penn has sure lost his way (and his looks...haircut?). Typical Rolling Stone sensationalistic piece. And, now, because of the fictional rape story, one has to wonder how much of it is even true?
Anyway, after tipping off the cops to El Chapo, I'm sure Penn will be "welcomed" back to Mexico anytime.
Anyway, after tipping off the cops to El Chapo, I'm sure Penn will be "welcomed" back to Mexico anytime.
Bizarre, no other word for this thoroughly immoral and lunatic relationship.
Maybe El Chapo will become the Republican nominee. It couldn't get any worse.
1
Isn't this arrest some kind of symbolic thing? Surely El Chapo is correct that it will not affect the business. I say legitimize the whole industry, regulate it, provide education and recovery options for those who want it, and relieve me of the concern that a desperate user will take something from me.
1
Nice work, Penn. What's it like shaking hands with the earthly incarnation of the devil. You know, the guy responsible for 30,000 deaths?
Idiot.
Idiot.
If El Chapo is a folk hero, how are we going to tell our kids not to do drugs? If Mexico cannot have a viable economy on his own, how did it become an independent country? Why do we outsource our jobs far and wide disregard our next door neighbor, Mexico?
There is far too much moralizing and pearl-clutching on this thread regarding Sean Penn. He should be congratulated for his initiative and willingness to risk his personal safety in securing the interview with El Chapo.
Penn asked some tough questions and got Guzman to admit the scale and extent of his illegal activities. He got a scoop no other journalist was able to get.
Would there be any controversy whatsoever about this interview if Lara Logan or Anderson Cooper had done it, instead of Sean Penn? Of course not. The beef against Penn, then, is that he is a Hollywood Liberal and not a real journalist.
And yet he got the interview. And yet he has far more direct experience with leaders from South and Central America than most journalists. He has taken a personal interest in development and poverty in the region, to the extent of founding and managing (and largely funding) an NGO in Haiti. This is a guy who acts on his convictions and seeks out the truth in the face of a lot of criticism.
Penn asked some tough questions and got Guzman to admit the scale and extent of his illegal activities. He got a scoop no other journalist was able to get.
Would there be any controversy whatsoever about this interview if Lara Logan or Anderson Cooper had done it, instead of Sean Penn? Of course not. The beef against Penn, then, is that he is a Hollywood Liberal and not a real journalist.
And yet he got the interview. And yet he has far more direct experience with leaders from South and Central America than most journalists. He has taken a personal interest in development and poverty in the region, to the extent of founding and managing (and largely funding) an NGO in Haiti. This is a guy who acts on his convictions and seeks out the truth in the face of a lot of criticism.
2
Guzman seems thirsty for celebrity by association with Penn, and vice versa. The Rolling Stone article offers interesting insight into both, and is worth reading. It would be interesting to know more about and Castillo and Penn's role in Guzman's capture, inadvertent or not. Her role is particularly interesting, based on her evident infatuation with a brutal man.
Our civilization all too often glorifies affluence and power, especially when evil and violence are at work. Witness our interest in Mafia dons, drug lords, and dictators. Hollywood and tyranny almost seem to share mutual admiration. I hope that the true evil of a man directly and indirectly responsible for so many destroyed lives is not lost in the wanderlust of celebrity validation. Guzman should not become a cultural icon or martyr by virtue of this encounter.
Our civilization all too often glorifies affluence and power, especially when evil and violence are at work. Witness our interest in Mafia dons, drug lords, and dictators. Hollywood and tyranny almost seem to share mutual admiration. I hope that the true evil of a man directly and indirectly responsible for so many destroyed lives is not lost in the wanderlust of celebrity validation. Guzman should not become a cultural icon or martyr by virtue of this encounter.
El Chapo brought in the wrong Penn. Now if he had an audience with Penn and Teller he could have disappeared and not been found. If there is a next time El Chapo should confirm who he is calling before he presses dial on his cell phone. It's always the little things that trip up powerful people.
1
If I'm Sean Penn or Ms. del Castillo, I would tend to think Guzman would put a bounty on each of us. Having this part of the capture come out so soon isn't a smart move.
2
Hopefully Rolling Stone or another publication (how about the NT Times Magazine??) will do a major and serious (multi-part?) piece on this story.
Frankly, it's silly to condemn this as merely tabloid fodder. This is a HUGE, multi-trillion dollar industry and Chapo was one of the leading CEOs. The story touches on so many aspects of our world. In a way, it's about everything: governmental corruption on a grand scale, multi-national amoeba like Walmart ransacking what's left of Mexico and desecrating its historic sites while the people starve, the heroin-like allure of money and the lengths people will go to get it, the essential relationship of wealth and violence, celebrity culture, endemic poverty and hopelessness, NAFTA....
Frankly, it's silly to condemn this as merely tabloid fodder. This is a HUGE, multi-trillion dollar industry and Chapo was one of the leading CEOs. The story touches on so many aspects of our world. In a way, it's about everything: governmental corruption on a grand scale, multi-national amoeba like Walmart ransacking what's left of Mexico and desecrating its historic sites while the people starve, the heroin-like allure of money and the lengths people will go to get it, the essential relationship of wealth and violence, celebrity culture, endemic poverty and hopelessness, NAFTA....
Donald Trump brags that he is really, really, rich and and says we should all admire him for it.
Is this not a byproduct of the way capitalism functions? Think of the pollution, deaths due to war, and all the greed and lies told that are the result of it?
Seems he was trying to use the same tools of propaganda made available to our rich and powerful every day.
Is this not a byproduct of the way capitalism functions? Think of the pollution, deaths due to war, and all the greed and lies told that are the result of it?
Seems he was trying to use the same tools of propaganda made available to our rich and powerful every day.
1
"It was not immediately clear what the ethical and legal considerations of the article might be."
Yes it is. Just one more example of glorifying and glamorizing violence and greed. It's not complicated.
Yes it is. Just one more example of glorifying and glamorizing violence and greed. It's not complicated.
And if the interviewee's evil is cloaked in the legitimacy of the state?
Penn's involvement has resulted in Guzman admitting on camera, uncoerced, that he is the largest producer and distributor of "heroin, methamphetamine, cocaine and marijuana" in the world.
That admission can be used as evidence at law. No such admission had ever been obtained before by Mexico or the USA. Sean Penn has done a good deed by obtaining that admission. Of course, we all know, no good deed goes unpunished.
That admission can be used as evidence at law. No such admission had ever been obtained before by Mexico or the USA. Sean Penn has done a good deed by obtaining that admission. Of course, we all know, no good deed goes unpunished.
4
The interaction with Penn is likely the reason the Mexican authorities decided to recapture Guzman. You can kill, steal, cheat, bribe, intimidate and otherwise do a lot of things in Mexico. However, the one thing the guys who run the place can't stand is being embarrassed like this. It hits at their manhood.
This stunt embarrassed them and they went and caught El Chapo because he ticked them off.
This stunt embarrassed them and they went and caught El Chapo because he ticked them off.
1
There's not a lot in the interview that wasn't already known.
The best quote came from del Castillo, "without offer, there is no demand".
That sums up what the war on drugs should be about, eliminating the offer.
Parts of the Mexican government are looking the other way, as usual.
The best quote came from del Castillo, "without offer, there is no demand".
That sums up what the war on drugs should be about, eliminating the offer.
Parts of the Mexican government are looking the other way, as usual.
Who told Sean Penn where El Chapo was hiding?
How did he learn about Chapo's hideout?
Shouldn't he have alerted the police, Mexican or American?
Seems to me Penn owes law enforcement an explanation.
How did he learn about Chapo's hideout?
Shouldn't he have alerted the police, Mexican or American?
Seems to me Penn owes law enforcement an explanation.
While I can understand and even sympathize with the views some have expressed about elevating a druglord into a folk hero, and their outrage over Mr. Penn's behavior, I can't take such protestations seriously. It is the US government that has created the conditions under which El Chapo came to power, and even now, after decades of its so-called War on Drugs demonstrates its incapacity to recognize failed policies and the misery they have brought. Not only that, but that save government provides military equipment and training to Central- and South American dictators under the guise of combating drugs, when in reality these assets are mostly used to persecute indigenous peoples and crush dissent.
Where is the outrage directed against Congress, the White House, the FBI and the DEA for their abuses?
Where is the outrage directed against Congress, the White House, the FBI and the DEA for their abuses?
2
Yes, Penn is not a journalist, but he performed a very useful journalism-like service by bringing us a picture, out of Guzman’s own mouth, of the man’s criminality and toxic self-delusion.
Guzman has abetted the addiction of tens of thousands, with no doubt hundreds of overdose deaths, and has ordered the violent deaths of how many hundreds?
And he justifies all this: Mexican poverty made me do it!
This from a guy worth how many billions?, and who has a loyal and well-paid organization capable of springing him from prison twice, and of murdering many of his enemies. (Good that the Mexican government will turn him over to the US, where he’s be lodged securely in the tightest of supermax Federal prisons, after one or more trials on US charges.)
It’s useful to have this guy’s huge ego and capacity for self-delusion out on display. Whatever you may think of the ethics of Penn or Rolling Stone.
And apparently Guzman was apprehended as a result, likely not from a tip from Penn, but because Penn’s response to Guzman’s invitation allowed Guzman to be located and run to earth. Seems just fine, on balance.
Guzman has abetted the addiction of tens of thousands, with no doubt hundreds of overdose deaths, and has ordered the violent deaths of how many hundreds?
And he justifies all this: Mexican poverty made me do it!
This from a guy worth how many billions?, and who has a loyal and well-paid organization capable of springing him from prison twice, and of murdering many of his enemies. (Good that the Mexican government will turn him over to the US, where he’s be lodged securely in the tightest of supermax Federal prisons, after one or more trials on US charges.)
It’s useful to have this guy’s huge ego and capacity for self-delusion out on display. Whatever you may think of the ethics of Penn or Rolling Stone.
And apparently Guzman was apprehended as a result, likely not from a tip from Penn, but because Penn’s response to Guzman’s invitation allowed Guzman to be located and run to earth. Seems just fine, on balance.
It is bad enough that Narco music glorifies drug smugglers. But the mere fact that Sean Penn and Kate del Castillo interviewed El Chapo, makes it even more egregious. They may have had good intentions but by interviewing him they are doing the same as the Narco music. They should have known better and I am sure it will have a negative effect on their careers.
1
I find it hard to associate journalism with Rolling Stone magazine and that was even before its University of Virginia debacle. This latest episode, an interview that seems to combine admiration of the subject with a total absence of probing question, only confirms that view.
The mexican government created EL CHAPO GUZMAN. Because are government allowed companies,factories to move over to Mexico and pay them 3 dollars a day for workers and 15 dollars a day as a supervisor.
Now tell me how in the hell you're going to live on that to feed your babies and families. You want the drugs to stop make them pay a fair wage to the mexican people who work in american factories. Mexico and the united states should be making sure that if our factory is over there then the mexican government should make us pay fair wages to the people.
It's corruption at all levels and people have to live.
We have a Guzman over here in america who charges a rancher 1 million dollars plus tax to let animals eat on their land. So lets pull the stick from our eye before we pull out our neighbors.
Now tell me how in the hell you're going to live on that to feed your babies and families. You want the drugs to stop make them pay a fair wage to the mexican people who work in american factories. Mexico and the united states should be making sure that if our factory is over there then the mexican government should make us pay fair wages to the people.
It's corruption at all levels and people have to live.
We have a Guzman over here in america who charges a rancher 1 million dollars plus tax to let animals eat on their land. So lets pull the stick from our eye before we pull out our neighbors.
Despicable
I will never pay to see a sean penn movie again.
May you know someone who dies from Chapo's heroin.
john blazosky
pittsburgh, PA
I will never pay to see a sean penn movie again.
May you know someone who dies from Chapo's heroin.
john blazosky
pittsburgh, PA
What a joke. An interview in Rolling Stone is pretty much by definition a glamourization of the subject - in this case, the world's biggest drug dealer and certified mass murderer. It seems like both Sean Penn (a narcissistic tool and a hack of a writer) have an adolescent need to be "edgy;" to be a rebel. I guess I can understand why RS would look past the ethics of all this, since infamy equals sales. Penn needs a therapist. In other news, he's a decent actor.
1
There is no enforcement mechanism, no legal system in the world that can truly make "substances" illegal.
You can tax and regulate them. Period. End of story.
Efforts to make substances illegal, create greater injustices than those created by those attempting to sell illegal substances.
The US, "freest nation on Earth" now has more people in cages and under surveillance, than any other nation, more than two million of our people in prison, mostly for drug crime, or drug related crime. And millions are under surveillance of one form or another.
Many of our law enforcement officers, our military, our judicial system itself has been compromised, corrupted by drug money, civil forfeiture "laws" and the like.
In 2001, no heroin was produced in Afghanistan. Then the Taliban leaders met in Texas with Shrub, and Shrub was appointed president, and the uninvestigated crimes of 9/11. And the NATO occupation of Afghanistan in 2002, and then over six trillion dollars worth of heroin produced there, along with billions worth of oil sent down from the 'stans to the coast in the Halliburton completed pipeline, and billions more pumped in Iraq, on contracts made possible by military invasion there, although 15/19 of the hijackers were Saudi Sunni, and none were Iraqi. Over a million Iraqi Shia died in the fighting during the occupation of Iraq.
Oil and heroin cartels won.
The American people lost. The Iraqi People lost.
Can we please begin to clean up this mess.
You can tax and regulate them. Period. End of story.
Efforts to make substances illegal, create greater injustices than those created by those attempting to sell illegal substances.
The US, "freest nation on Earth" now has more people in cages and under surveillance, than any other nation, more than two million of our people in prison, mostly for drug crime, or drug related crime. And millions are under surveillance of one form or another.
Many of our law enforcement officers, our military, our judicial system itself has been compromised, corrupted by drug money, civil forfeiture "laws" and the like.
In 2001, no heroin was produced in Afghanistan. Then the Taliban leaders met in Texas with Shrub, and Shrub was appointed president, and the uninvestigated crimes of 9/11. And the NATO occupation of Afghanistan in 2002, and then over six trillion dollars worth of heroin produced there, along with billions worth of oil sent down from the 'stans to the coast in the Halliburton completed pipeline, and billions more pumped in Iraq, on contracts made possible by military invasion there, although 15/19 of the hijackers were Saudi Sunni, and none were Iraqi. Over a million Iraqi Shia died in the fighting during the occupation of Iraq.
Oil and heroin cartels won.
The American people lost. The Iraqi People lost.
Can we please begin to clean up this mess.
3
And this story makes it into the paper that crucifies the likes of Donald Trump, Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio almost every day of the week. I wonder where Mr. Bruni, Mr. Krugman and Mr. Cohen stand on Mr. Penn's consorting with one of the world's major criminals in order to do what? - feed his own ego? But I'll bet they can find more forgiveness in their hearts for Mr. Penn's actions - knowing that he is a far left liberal whose causes are dear to their own hearts - than they could find even forbearance for some of the views of Trump, Cruz and Rubio. Why don't you poll them on it, or better yet, ask your Public Editor what she thinks of this story being highlighted the way it has been in The Newspaper of Record?
If drugs were not illegal, criminals like El Chapo would be put out of business by legitimate competition in a New York minute. Trying to control the benign behavior of people is an act of utter futility and immense stupidity that only "rulers" would dare perpetrate. The war on drugs, which is a euphemism for a war against people who resist being controlled by stupid, busybody rulers. The perps are the drug warriors starting at the highest government officials who must put their stamp of aaproval on drug-war butchery. They are among the most immoral, dangerous people on the face of the earth. El Chapo is more honest than Barack Obama and his warrior ilk.
1
Guzman seems to agree with that fictional drug dealer Harry Lime in the film The Third Man.
Looking down on a small crowd of people 200 feet below Harry asks, "Would you really feel any pity if one of those dots stopped moving forever? If I offered you twenty thousand pounds for every dot that stopped, would you really, tell me to keep my money, or would you calculate how many dots you could afford to spare? "
I suspect that, in a quest for publicity, Mr. Penn has made the same calculation.
Looking down on a small crowd of people 200 feet below Harry asks, "Would you really feel any pity if one of those dots stopped moving forever? If I offered you twenty thousand pounds for every dot that stopped, would you really, tell me to keep my money, or would you calculate how many dots you could afford to spare? "
I suspect that, in a quest for publicity, Mr. Penn has made the same calculation.
1
I'm no psychologist but unconsciously it looks like El Chapo may have wanted to be caught, otherwise he'd have laid low and not started giving interviews. Being on the lam takes effort. Look at all of the people you need to control. Think of the expense.
Perhaps he thought that if he was apprehended by the Mexicans, who are more easily bribe-able, he'd escape again when he got tired of jail and he'd get his movie made. The guy seems vain. Probably he didn't anticipate that this time he'd be handed over to the US for prosecution and incarceration, if found guilty.
Perhaps he thought that if he was apprehended by the Mexicans, who are more easily bribe-able, he'd escape again when he got tired of jail and he'd get his movie made. The guy seems vain. Probably he didn't anticipate that this time he'd be handed over to the US for prosecution and incarceration, if found guilty.
2
Penn refers to El Chapo as a "Robin Hood," a myth also applied to drug kingpin and mass murderer Pablo Escobar. Such fictions are naive. Penn's long-winded diatribe in Rolling Stone contains puzzling references to the movie star's bodily functions but very little of interest about the drug lord, whose few words seem to have been drafted by his lawyers.
1
Wow. As they say... you can't make this stuff up!
2
"There still isn't a way to survive." You know, I don't doubt the hardships of poverty and the lack of opportunities. I DO doubt that the only choices available to people like El Chapo are: (1) starve to death; or (2) become a billionaire drug kingpin.
There is one thing I will acknowledge about El Chapo. When asked about drugs he simply acknowledged that they destroy. He didn't go into some rant trying to equate heroine with alcohol or some nonsense. He didn't try some political argument about the merits of legalizing all drugs. He just stated what should be obvious to everyone: "Drugs destroy."
There is one thing I will acknowledge about El Chapo. When asked about drugs he simply acknowledged that they destroy. He didn't go into some rant trying to equate heroine with alcohol or some nonsense. He didn't try some political argument about the merits of legalizing all drugs. He just stated what should be obvious to everyone: "Drugs destroy."
1
hmmmmm...... we are worried about global warming when we should be worked that we have no compass.
1
Sean Penn is one of the edgy activists who can gain the trust of folks outside the law. He's obviously an excellent negotiator.
This interview paints a good picture of the ineffectiveness of our drug war. Two countries with large security budgets let him build an underground facility attached to a high security prison. Then they could not find him, but a couple of actors managed to visit him for dinner and an interview. All our aerial surveillance technology had no clue that the drug cartel was using a high altitude plane to monitor the cops.
This interview paints a good picture of the ineffectiveness of our drug war. Two countries with large security budgets let him build an underground facility attached to a high security prison. Then they could not find him, but a couple of actors managed to visit him for dinner and an interview. All our aerial surveillance technology had no clue that the drug cartel was using a high altitude plane to monitor the cops.
13
If you're a journalist and you get the opportunity to interview a Joaquín Guzmâ Loera, you take it. You mean to tell me that The Times would have refused this interview opportunity?
Of course some might question whether Penn is a journalist. However, being commissioned by a legitimate publication like Rolling Stone for this project makes him a journalist, at least for this project. I have no problem with Penn doing this.
Of course some might question whether Penn is a journalist. However, being commissioned by a legitimate publication like Rolling Stone for this project makes him a journalist, at least for this project. I have no problem with Penn doing this.
4
@Mike,
Sorry, you lost me when you called Rolling Stone a legitimate publication. As for questioning Penn as a journalist, no, I have no questions, he's not a journalist. A legitimate interview would have been with El Chapo behind bullet proof glass dressed in prison orange! One might wonder if Penn is more worried now about the government or El Chapo's cartel.
Sorry, you lost me when you called Rolling Stone a legitimate publication. As for questioning Penn as a journalist, no, I have no questions, he's not a journalist. A legitimate interview would have been with El Chapo behind bullet proof glass dressed in prison orange! One might wonder if Penn is more worried now about the government or El Chapo's cartel.
Sean Penn goes everywhere: New Orleans after Katrina, Haiti after the earthquake with stopovers in Iraq and other hotspots. There are several high profile Hollywood stars who use their celebrity to bring attention to injustice and/or tragedy. However, Penn wants to make a film--which appears will take an understanding approach to a heinous killer; El Chapo wants a sympathetic filmmaker and "Rolling Stone" wants to sell magazines--not the best foundation for objective journalism.
2
These comments are hysterical.
First, Sean Penn has won two Best Actor Oscars. The only living actor to equal that is Daniel Day Lewis. Penn is one of the most respected actors in H'wood. If he hasn't been working lately, it's hardly for lack of prospective projects.
Secondly, he was very brave to do what he did. There's no getting around it.
Third, this was an amazing "get" that any journalist would have given his eye-teeth for. El Chapo was an important figure even before his spectacular prison breakout. Condemning Penn for leaping at the chance to interview him for a magazine betrays a misunderstanding of the fundamental principle of journalism: If you can get a great story, get it.
First, Sean Penn has won two Best Actor Oscars. The only living actor to equal that is Daniel Day Lewis. Penn is one of the most respected actors in H'wood. If he hasn't been working lately, it's hardly for lack of prospective projects.
Secondly, he was very brave to do what he did. There's no getting around it.
Third, this was an amazing "get" that any journalist would have given his eye-teeth for. El Chapo was an important figure even before his spectacular prison breakout. Condemning Penn for leaping at the chance to interview him for a magazine betrays a misunderstanding of the fundamental principle of journalism: If you can get a great story, get it.
24
The only problem is the story wasn't all that great...pr fluff.
@sweinst254,
If Penn knowingly or unknowingly led the authorities to El Chapo then I'll be somewhat satisfied. Beyond that not so much!
If Penn knowingly or unknowingly led the authorities to El Chapo then I'll be somewhat satisfied. Beyond that not so much!
Now for my daily conspiracy theory, for which I haven't an ounce of proof but at least an intuition:
Perhaps the Mexicans did not WANT El Chapo to be caught, particularly by the gringos, as this would risk revealing the vast network of politicians, military, police, civil service on the take from the powerful Sinaloa Cartel, something they could ill-afford. Penn's interview may have allowed the US drug enforcement agents to track El Chapo, bypass the Mexicans shielding him and move in for the kill.
But then, why would they plan to extradite him to the US? Hmmm. Well, he isn't here yet. Will they spare his life in a plea deal if he agrees to keep his mouth shut? Will he mysteriously die in custody before he ever makes it to trial? Stay tuned.
Perhaps the Mexicans did not WANT El Chapo to be caught, particularly by the gringos, as this would risk revealing the vast network of politicians, military, police, civil service on the take from the powerful Sinaloa Cartel, something they could ill-afford. Penn's interview may have allowed the US drug enforcement agents to track El Chapo, bypass the Mexicans shielding him and move in for the kill.
But then, why would they plan to extradite him to the US? Hmmm. Well, he isn't here yet. Will they spare his life in a plea deal if he agrees to keep his mouth shut? Will he mysteriously die in custody before he ever makes it to trial? Stay tuned.
There is no doubt Sean Penn is going to pay a heavy price for this stupidity; but as a Canadian it is really one more example of how celebrities in the U.S. seem to live in some sort of parallel universe these days. Hollywood seems to be so insulated from the real world these days that people like Penn just don`t. get it. They are so isolated from the reality of ordinary citizens that it all becomes a game of Semi-real television where the idea is the rules of society just do not apply to them. The cult of celebrity in the U.S. has now reached the stage where Hollywood has become home to the dillusionally disconnected who are incapable of realizing a monster like this drug lord is someone you do not interview; he is someone you treat as an animal.
1
a) Sean Penn did nothing wrong, he simply interviewed Guzman
b) it sure shows the power of Fame and Hollywood, because if Sean Penn's name was actually Shawn le Pen, he would NEVER have gotten that interview
c) Donald Trump is right; start building that Fence!
b) it sure shows the power of Fame and Hollywood, because if Sean Penn's name was actually Shawn le Pen, he would NEVER have gotten that interview
c) Donald Trump is right; start building that Fence!
1
Ah, that Sean Penn, more self-entitled trash from a much reviled family of Hollywood hotshots. What did anyone expect?
I really believe that americans are the best clowns on earth. Everything is for profit . No matter what. Always Hollywood has to be in charge. Nobody cares how many innocent human being is dead in Mexico , here or around the globe. Enough game . Fix this sick system first, taking care of the drug addicts is a good start. Guzman support the demand, without demand, Guzman can not be in business.
2
Must say, I'm not offended by Mr Penn's actions. Rather it's inspiring. What an exciting and meaningful life Mr. Penn is currently living. Currently not the norm for actors. When a man has reached the pinnacle of success like Mr. Penn, it's hard to find perspective. It's inspiring to see Mr. Penn's choices on how and where places his energies and resources. Wish more people would be as courageous. Thug life.
@Guy Currie,
If Sean's lucky he wont be using his energies and resources dealing with either the government or El Chapo's cartel. There's a old saying, "you made your bed you sleep in it!" Sean, I wish you luck, but remember the old saying!
If Sean's lucky he wont be using his energies and resources dealing with either the government or El Chapo's cartel. There's a old saying, "you made your bed you sleep in it!" Sean, I wish you luck, but remember the old saying!
This is the most vicious circlecreated by the Government from Vietnam to the Iran contras thru Afganistan to Mexico. Since the CIA brought coke to Mena Ar. to the tons of bricks that enter through Mexico today,the dope is sold and resold over again collecting millions along the way.
1
This is what happens when you have a cultures like Hollywood and Rolling Stone where there are no ethical or moral boundaries, thus nothing is off limits, and yes this includes a degenerate like Sean Penn meeting with a mass murderer like Joaquin Guzman for a mutual admiration love fest.
4
A late thought into the commentary but I seem to recall several other Hollywood and celebrity types consorting with "enemies of the people", in those persons lairs. What hubris and, more to the point, do they really think that their misguided attempts at some form of pacification are looked upon favorably or make any difference in a greater discussion? All I have seen from these actions is greater negativism to whatever cause they think they are promoting, and well deserved negativism at that.
1
So the conservatives in their vitriolic jealousy and contempt for anyone with talent and principles wish that Penn had never conducted the interview and the most-wanted drug lord on earth had remained at large.
Impressive.
Impressive.
1
When we have control of how we sell violent guns to the rest of the world, or fix the health of drug addict instead throwing them in jails,maybe we can start criticize Mexico or other nations. Did you look well the crowd of candidates from the GOP??SeanPenn did nothing wrong..Our culture is Hollywood, and Dinald Trump is the symbol of America . Enjoy !!! Guzman wants his head!!
Better get Sean on to the White House to receive a national award for his journalistic efforts exposing how poverty can drive the poor into a life of crime!
Or in the alternative to receive an indictment for interfering with a federal investigation!
Next Hollywood will be wanting us to believe that Guzman simply sold to the rich, and then gave to the poor?
Or in the alternative to receive an indictment for interfering with a federal investigation!
Next Hollywood will be wanting us to believe that Guzman simply sold to the rich, and then gave to the poor?
1
Hopefully Mr. Penn has a backup day job, now that journalism is out for him.
Or to the contrary, maybe this will be the start of an exciting second, third. or fourth . . . chapter for Mr. Penn. Tomorrow, for me, it's just back to being a boring old school teacher. Sigh.
Let's be perfectly clear. This is a Sean Penn publicity stunt. Nothing more. Nothing less. To those who admire him and Rolling Stone for the 'coup', spare us the sanctimony.
While the interview apparently took place last October, the timing of its release, the day after El Chapo is captured, should tell us all we need to know about Penn's attention-grabbing motives. It's the story of an entertainer posing as a journalist hired by a disgraced publication hoping to restore its credibility. El Chapo, Sean Penn and Rolling Stone: what sorry bed fellows the three make.
While the interview apparently took place last October, the timing of its release, the day after El Chapo is captured, should tell us all we need to know about Penn's attention-grabbing motives. It's the story of an entertainer posing as a journalist hired by a disgraced publication hoping to restore its credibility. El Chapo, Sean Penn and Rolling Stone: what sorry bed fellows the three make.
27
What isn't a publicity stunt for those who live their lives in the public's eyes? Whatever was his and their motive, the fact remains that what you say will always be inferred because "he" and "they" did it. I hate to burst their bubbles.
It is your attitude that is the epitome of sanctimony. God forbid we might learn something that will help us deal with the scourge of drugs; no, let's keep our collective head stuck in the sand.
Why Glamorize a thug and thus make him a "hero".
3
@Richard Sternagel,
Did you forget Rolling Stone was the magazine that put the doe eyed picture of the Boston bomber on their cover and had a multitude of people showing their support for him.
Did you forget Rolling Stone was the magazine that put the doe eyed picture of the Boston bomber on their cover and had a multitude of people showing their support for him.
I would like to know why Sean Penn is not being arrested for aiding a wanted fugitive? He know were one of the most want people was, went and met him but did not tell the authorities where he was. He is a leader of a drug cartel and not a good person Sean, you shouldn't make him out to be. You should go to jail right along with him.
2
He certainly didn't know and probably still doesn't know where El Chapo was.he was taken there by Guzman's men.
Kate del Castillo had not been supportive of El Chapo on Twitter but had challenged him to trade in drug dealing for altruistic activities. However, the meeting did not lead toward that direction.
El Chapo considers himself to be a successful business man who did what he had to in order to care for his family and has benefited his community since becoming successful.
He recognizes that drug use destroys users but claims he is filling an existing demand that will not be affected by his being arrested and that a dearth of alternatives led him to fill that demand.
I myself don't share this perspective but am aware of many legal substances (from Coca Cola to Glyphosate) that are damaging to the environment, public health and shouldn't be sold.
The root of the problem can be found in a socio-economic-political system that exploits natural, human and institutional resources for the economic benefit of a privileged few and to the detriment of most.
The economic gain from the production, distribution and regulation of illegal substances harmful to society is what keeps both the former and the latter in tandem, since the War on Drugs and incarceration of users and providers is Big Business as Usual for many, but fails to recognize (much less resolve) the root of the problem.
A profound reform of government leading to a fundamental redesign of society is called for and none of the establishment's candidates are up to the job.
Sean Penn probably meant well.
El Chapo considers himself to be a successful business man who did what he had to in order to care for his family and has benefited his community since becoming successful.
He recognizes that drug use destroys users but claims he is filling an existing demand that will not be affected by his being arrested and that a dearth of alternatives led him to fill that demand.
I myself don't share this perspective but am aware of many legal substances (from Coca Cola to Glyphosate) that are damaging to the environment, public health and shouldn't be sold.
The root of the problem can be found in a socio-economic-political system that exploits natural, human and institutional resources for the economic benefit of a privileged few and to the detriment of most.
The economic gain from the production, distribution and regulation of illegal substances harmful to society is what keeps both the former and the latter in tandem, since the War on Drugs and incarceration of users and providers is Big Business as Usual for many, but fails to recognize (much less resolve) the root of the problem.
A profound reform of government leading to a fundamental redesign of society is called for and none of the establishment's candidates are up to the job.
Sean Penn probably meant well.
1
The real problem is not as much on the supply, as is very much on the demand. We stop illegal drugs consumption we stop the problem, number one, now if the export of chemicals to produce such drugs were much more restricted as well as putting away every drug lord that steps up. And they reproduce like rats.
Typical Hollywood type, making a film about a Mexican criminal when there are plenty of American drug lords to interview.
If Chappy is brought to the US to face justice, Sean can expect a subpoena so he can formally, under oath, recount Chappy's blatant criminal admission, or, in the alternative, get crucified under cross examination with the Rolling Stone article. Either way, Sean either never bothered to chat with a criminal defense attorney prior to his trip, or simply didn't care, but there are major league legal
consequences to this stunt.
consequences to this stunt.
Freedom of Press. Write what he wants, interview who he wants, screw mexico and their corrupt government.
Sean Pean will make a profit just like corporations, and will show how the government acts . He is good on that. I see so many comments , and I don't understand the criticism, I think is very naïve. Governments and Corporations are in the same scale. Nobody is innocent here, except the vulnerable people that suffer or get kill . Guzman is a product of a corrupt societies, like Mexico, here , Europe..... All over the world.. Take your time and think about the criminals of different classes.
Don't kid yourself.
Look carefully at that picture. The expression on Sean's face is one of "Look here, guys. I got your man. Now come and get him.".
1
Why the hell is Sean Pen meeting with a man who has killed through guns and drugs god knows how many people??? This guy wants to make a movie about his life, and two Americans are going to help him do it? Where is their conscience, their outrage?
Perhaps the Times could post a quiz for readers to answer before they post comments. It's so difficult to wade through the detritus of comments left by "readers" who clearly haven't read the article (or have failed to comprehend its main points). The comments could then be sorted by comments' "scores". The comments left on this article betray a frightening tendency of commenters to weigh-in on matters they do not, or refuse to, understand, and more tellingly, demanding answers to questions already answered by the article.
3
That would make sense if any of this actually mattered. Unfortunately none of these comments, or any comments, ever have any impact whatsoever. Nobody has ever had their mind changed by a comment. A comments section is just an opportunity for people to blow off steam and put in their 2 cents. Which feels good, so thank you NYT for providing it. But effective in any significant way? No.
1
I have always thought that Penn was a miscreant . Now I'm sure. Lie with the dogs and get fleas. Penn has more than his share of fleas. He did this for Penn, not anyone else. In the case of Penn, his evil characters are Penn himself.
1
If you've seen a typical action-adventure movie with an evil villain, like a James Bond or superhero flick, you'll know how much those criminal masterminds revel in sharing their stories and boasting of their successes, only to be foiled in the end. Seems like reality sometimes imitates fiction here too, as real-life villains like El Chapo dream of becoming as famous as Hollywood super-villains rather than hiding out in fearful secrecy.
And if you've ever seen "The Act of Killing," Joshua Oppenheimer's chilling film on the perpetrator's of Indonesia's mass killings, you'll know that these fantasies are not only revealing forms of identification, but that they also reveal compulsive desires for public confession, recognition, and forgiveness in some strangely ritualistic form of cinematic "entertainment." Maybe this is also why their are so many mass killers in the U.S., aside from the American addiction to guns and the gun industry's profiteering from this addiction. Alienated, unstable folks who can't manage their aggression, whether teenagers or anti-choice right-wingers in Colorado or radicalized Islamists in San Bernardino, need recognition and often dream of fame, and getting famous for doing good deeds is much harder than "breaking bad" and causing harm. Thankfully their need for public attention can also make it easier to catch them – and that's why media can be helpful for preventing violence rather than perpetuating it.
And if you've ever seen "The Act of Killing," Joshua Oppenheimer's chilling film on the perpetrator's of Indonesia's mass killings, you'll know that these fantasies are not only revealing forms of identification, but that they also reveal compulsive desires for public confession, recognition, and forgiveness in some strangely ritualistic form of cinematic "entertainment." Maybe this is also why their are so many mass killers in the U.S., aside from the American addiction to guns and the gun industry's profiteering from this addiction. Alienated, unstable folks who can't manage their aggression, whether teenagers or anti-choice right-wingers in Colorado or radicalized Islamists in San Bernardino, need recognition and often dream of fame, and getting famous for doing good deeds is much harder than "breaking bad" and causing harm. Thankfully their need for public attention can also make it easier to catch them – and that's why media can be helpful for preventing violence rather than perpetuating it.
1
"are we not complicit in what we demonize?"
http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/features/el-chapo-speaks-20160109
Worth addressing seriously and with honesty.
In my opinion El Chapo, Kate del Castillo, Sean Penn, Rolling Stone merely lend themselves as the lights needed for people to pay attention to those words and their import. That alone says something about society. Read the article and interview.
http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/features/el-chapo-speaks-20160109
Worth addressing seriously and with honesty.
In my opinion El Chapo, Kate del Castillo, Sean Penn, Rolling Stone merely lend themselves as the lights needed for people to pay attention to those words and their import. That alone says something about society. Read the article and interview.
Guzman claims there was "no way" to survive when he was growing up other than growing pot and poppies. So basically, either be a drug dealer or starve to death? What a stupid thing to say. Talk about a false dichotomy. I'm pretty sure millions of people live in these regions and manage to eat every day without taking part in that trade.
The man is a sociopath of the first order. He claims he never starts trouble, only defends himself; evidently he doesn't understand that he IS the trouble, and his claims to only defending himself are absurd given how cruel many of his murders are. He has people killed in the most unspeakable ways, engaging in torture and beheadings and hog-tying women before butchering them.
I appreciate Sean Penn's acting, but his political views have always been a joke. They are superficial and lack any understanding or perspective. He just reflexively takes the most radical position possible, including backing the obviously repellent Hugo Chavez, whose dictatorial tendencies and grotesque mismanagement of the economy were apparent from the start. Now he has shaken hands with the devil, literally, and we have a photo to prove it.
The man is a sociopath of the first order. He claims he never starts trouble, only defends himself; evidently he doesn't understand that he IS the trouble, and his claims to only defending himself are absurd given how cruel many of his murders are. He has people killed in the most unspeakable ways, engaging in torture and beheadings and hog-tying women before butchering them.
I appreciate Sean Penn's acting, but his political views have always been a joke. They are superficial and lack any understanding or perspective. He just reflexively takes the most radical position possible, including backing the obviously repellent Hugo Chavez, whose dictatorial tendencies and grotesque mismanagement of the economy were apparent from the start. Now he has shaken hands with the devil, literally, and we have a photo to prove it.
30
El Chapo is an evil man. He does not see himself as evil which he has in common with the followers of ISIS. The US should bring all the influence it has to extradite this evil person. He should be held in solitary confinement until he dies of natural causes.
1
Penn and Rolling Stone deserve each other as they both represent relics of a phony narrative.
They gave the guy final edit rights...laughable
This guy is on the level of Saddam Hussein for murder and the destruction of lives that come into his sphere, and this moronic ex actor and now HS magazine glorify him. There is nothing redeemable about this guy, he sold drugs amd murdered him.
NYT is then wringing their hands wonder why Trump is getting 20% of the Dem vote.
They gave the guy final edit rights...laughable
This guy is on the level of Saddam Hussein for murder and the destruction of lives that come into his sphere, and this moronic ex actor and now HS magazine glorify him. There is nothing redeemable about this guy, he sold drugs amd murdered him.
NYT is then wringing their hands wonder why Trump is getting 20% of the Dem vote.
1
If Tanya Couch is in jail why isn't Sean Penn in jail?
This is popular culture run amok by the over privileged uber rich.
Sorry, I am not impressed with Penn's journalistic skills.
This is popular culture run amok by the over privileged uber rich.
Sorry, I am not impressed with Penn's journalistic skills.
2
He's not in jail because he hasn't broken any laws. A whole bunch of hysterical commenters demanding he be thrown in jail doesn't actually mean that a crime has been committed.
El Chapo: "I supply more heroin, methamphetamine, cocaine and marijuana than anybody else in the world. I have a fleet of submarines, airplanes, trucks and boats.”
His mother must be so proud.
His mother must be so proud.
1
Growing up never needing anything and having access to the finest medical care in the world, it's hard for me to judge the path one's life takes growing up in poverty with no apparent way out. However, for El Chapo to say he never has initiated violence is preposterous. How does he think his supply chain is managed? It's managed by the presence of terror, violence, and threats while at times being supported by the same government that wants him in jail.
1
Rolling Stone continues to prove itself to be completely irrelevant.
First the phony rape case, now they send high school drop-outs to "interview" fugitives.
Why do they continue to try to do "real" journalism?
They really ought to just stick to letting readers know about the very important break-up of One Direction and how that will impact the world of pop.
First the phony rape case, now they send high school drop-outs to "interview" fugitives.
Why do they continue to try to do "real" journalism?
They really ought to just stick to letting readers know about the very important break-up of One Direction and how that will impact the world of pop.
2
Maybe, just maybe justice will be done. If the killer thinks penn turned him in............
1
I had no idea that Sean Penn had such admiration for capitalists. Making all of these drugs illegal creates a huge entry barrier for competitors, and it results in a cut throat business where only the most competitive (and ruthless) survive and succeed. He despises the people who do it (i.e., work and succeed) the old fashioned way...hard work and following the rules.
He is and has long been disgusting.
He is and has long been disgusting.
Unless there is some incredibly honorable and not-to-be-revealed honorable side to this, what the hell is Sean Penn doing meeting with a Mexican narco-terrorist criminal ?
Penn is not "a journalist". Penn is not the police. Penn is not a Govt negotiator. Penn is Mrs Penn's boy, Seanie.
Aside from vain-glorious, self-promotion, self-elevation - - - as when Seanie arranged and met with Saddam in Iraq - - what the hell is he at?
These mindless celebrity-types who have more money and time on their hands, than they have good sense, go to rendevous with what society considers to be horrible people? For what, self promotion, self entertainment, self insertion into world affairs, somehow??
I'm reminded of Ernest Hemingway during WW2, trying to get himself made into some sort of secret spy with the then OSS secret service and parachuted on a dangerous mission, and... They denied his self-important seeking request, and instead asked him to do a less glamorous task of war-bond fund raising.
So it seems Seanie needs to be a phony tough guy in his black (signature!) muscle shirt, doing tequila shots with El Chapo in his desolate hideout. VERY dramatic. VERY earthy. VERY tough guy cool!!
Please. El Chapo is a pathetic little man who has had likely scores of people murdered, if not more, and has destroyed hundres of thousands of lives taking many in the process of his trade. He is scum, the lowest of all.
So you seek him out, indulge his narcisscism, shake his hand ??
Penn is not "a journalist". Penn is not the police. Penn is not a Govt negotiator. Penn is Mrs Penn's boy, Seanie.
Aside from vain-glorious, self-promotion, self-elevation - - - as when Seanie arranged and met with Saddam in Iraq - - what the hell is he at?
These mindless celebrity-types who have more money and time on their hands, than they have good sense, go to rendevous with what society considers to be horrible people? For what, self promotion, self entertainment, self insertion into world affairs, somehow??
I'm reminded of Ernest Hemingway during WW2, trying to get himself made into some sort of secret spy with the then OSS secret service and parachuted on a dangerous mission, and... They denied his self-important seeking request, and instead asked him to do a less glamorous task of war-bond fund raising.
So it seems Seanie needs to be a phony tough guy in his black (signature!) muscle shirt, doing tequila shots with El Chapo in his desolate hideout. VERY dramatic. VERY earthy. VERY tough guy cool!!
Please. El Chapo is a pathetic little man who has had likely scores of people murdered, if not more, and has destroyed hundres of thousands of lives taking many in the process of his trade. He is scum, the lowest of all.
So you seek him out, indulge his narcisscism, shake his hand ??
2
Let's not forget the Mexican actress, Kate del Castillo, who wrote a Twitter message sympathetic to El Chapo in 2012.
Sounds like the newswoman who befriended Pablo Escobar. I guess these women like bad boys. Very, very bad boys.
Sounds like the newswoman who befriended Pablo Escobar. I guess these women like bad boys. Very, very bad boys.
1
I hope the U.S. entertainment industry remembers this and don't hire Kate del Castillo for any roles. I won't even watch her on Univision or Telemundo. She's done for me.
1
So much money and he is being caught in a such stupid way???... like Sadam Hussein...
I'm starting to doubt the existence of "el chapo" as this face that we know.
Very straight comments is not so plausible!! Who is the gangsters here?? Our society is so dirty !! And Hollywood loves to make sure we are represented fully and bright., like always . I don't admire Sean Penn less because of his contact with Guzman. Guzman is a criminal and everyone knows that. But Mexico government, and our government is the biggest problem here. Violence caused by powerful guns sold to drug dealers. Actually is easy to buy guns than bananas. Arizona , Texas big markets of guns , without a problem whatsoever. The drug cartel never give up nd never will , because the system facilitate it. A big percentage of americans have a serious problem with drugs and nothing were done to help this population , and It was easy to dump drug dealers or drug addict to prisions , were big profits were made. The cartel enjoy the demand from here and from the rest of the world. Nothing change only the faces of our leaders. Unfortunately a lot of innocent civilians, get kill everyday because of that. Don't criticize Sean Penn it is silly .
We live in such a mean society, with the Internet being the ultimate crucible of that meanness, and it's exactly the kind of moral vacuousness makes men like El Chapo possible. I'm not surprised, but still sad, to see the number of people who think that because, in their opinions, Mr. Penn is arrogant and egotistical that he deserves a death sentence at the hands of mercenaries. God bless America.
Sounds like there is colusion between el chapo and the Mexican authorities. Are we sure we want to be in bed with this government? or does it go further than that and we need to look at our own authorities's collusion?
Sean Penn is the most sanctimonious liberal in Hollywood, constantly pointing his finger at evildoers he has appointed himself to identify and shame. And yet here he is,obviously desperate to seek the approval of this butcher, man to man. Penn's massive ego is positively radioactive.
The confusion between cinema and real life contaminates the moral sense of people who can't gain critical distance on themselves or their virtual world. Pathetic.
The confusion between cinema and real life contaminates the moral sense of people who can't gain critical distance on themselves or their virtual world. Pathetic.
2
If first there is Dennis Rodman meeting with Kim Jung-un and now Sean Penn is interviewing "El Capo"... perhaps it is only fitting Donald Trump should be negotiating with Vladimir Putin....
2
Really fascinating on too many levels to hit in one comment.
I'll take a different tack than most.
Whether in the US, Mexico or wherever, people want basically the same basics.
To live a life of security (financial and personal) decency, respect and justice.
Remove any of these elements and humans will mutate into places and forms that are aberrant. Mildly or radically.
Drugs are just one accoutrement of the mutation.
A baby born as I write this needs things to survive and thrive that we all know. Brainstorm a few: food, shelter, secure, prosperous parents and environs…love, opportunity as it grows, the backing of society with policy priorities that put that baby's well being at the top of all considerations and especially ahead of the priorities of a small wealthy cabal that, in any human group, will seek to serve itself above that baby.
I envision a more enlightened world by and by and I long for the US to get on board. I would say lead but we are already behind so many western allies in measures of humanity.
Heck, we can't even agree that basic health services are a right that serves the nation and not a profit source!
Drugs take the user temporarily to a world of bliss and well being. What a desperate way to go there.
My well being, and perhaps yours, was fostered by a life rich with the attributes I mentioned above. Drugs only interfere with my world.
Focus on what a baby, child, teen, adult need to be whole. Focus on that and El Chapo can't exist.
I'll take a different tack than most.
Whether in the US, Mexico or wherever, people want basically the same basics.
To live a life of security (financial and personal) decency, respect and justice.
Remove any of these elements and humans will mutate into places and forms that are aberrant. Mildly or radically.
Drugs are just one accoutrement of the mutation.
A baby born as I write this needs things to survive and thrive that we all know. Brainstorm a few: food, shelter, secure, prosperous parents and environs…love, opportunity as it grows, the backing of society with policy priorities that put that baby's well being at the top of all considerations and especially ahead of the priorities of a small wealthy cabal that, in any human group, will seek to serve itself above that baby.
I envision a more enlightened world by and by and I long for the US to get on board. I would say lead but we are already behind so many western allies in measures of humanity.
Heck, we can't even agree that basic health services are a right that serves the nation and not a profit source!
Drugs take the user temporarily to a world of bliss and well being. What a desperate way to go there.
My well being, and perhaps yours, was fostered by a life rich with the attributes I mentioned above. Drugs only interfere with my world.
Focus on what a baby, child, teen, adult need to be whole. Focus on that and El Chapo can't exist.
With all due respect to my four-legged friend, "Bandit," and true canines everywhere, I'm reminded of that ages-old warning that when one lies with dogs (i.e., the "dawg" type), one rises with fleas.
El Chapo's ego got him caught. The desire to have a movie made about him led to his exposure.
What's fascinating to me is how this individual has gone to extremes as he states to earn a living. Well for what we know he is very rich already and many lost their lives for him to live a lavish life, now he gets interviews and movies to continue to get money and we are contributing to it. In my opinion, it shouldn't matter why he has done what he has done or his story why do we need details of his life when we have seen his crimes first hand? Its ridiculous that in some form we are supporting this man's ways.
who's the real sick one??
who's the real sick one??
1
“I supply more heroin, methamphetamine, cocaine and marijuana than anybody else in the world. I have a fleet of submarines, airplanes, trucks and boats.” This is an interesting part of the article because it defies the affect that building a long wall between Mexico and the US would keep the drug dealers and rapists out of our country. Building a wall is what the brilliant Donald Trump has used to incite supporters to a chant. Certainly subs, airplanes and boats could get around a wall. I'm finding his simple, but ineffectual solutions to our country's problems and the almost inflamed support of his followers to be very scary.
A drug lord gets media attention for making over $1 billion for killing and distributing illegal drugs. Yet, Pfizer, is raising drug prices in over more than 100 drugs. Pfizer's net worth is almost $170 billion, how many people have these legal drugs killed? Why pharmaceutical companies aren't making headlines? Are they any different than El Chapo?
1
Amid the outrage, let's not forget freedom of the press.
1
That's not in question, any more than people questioning media outlets not disclosing rape victims names. We're talking about propriety here.
The line between the violence in the media as entertainment and people's real life behavior is becoming increasingly indistinct. That is worth questioning.
The line between the violence in the media as entertainment and people's real life behavior is becoming increasingly indistinct. That is worth questioning.
Watch your back Sean Penn. Those who think your interview led to the capture of their boss/hero Guzman are not going to be happy!
2
Good for Sean Penn, this is democracy at its best. Sean Penn did not aide or contribute to any murders or drug deals, but unlike our overly paid television journalists, he did this without a 20 million dollar yearly paycheck and at his own risk. He got the scoop.
1
Why would Sean Penn risk his future with such a stunt? I think because the American people are not only interested in, but admire, those that defy authority (like El Chapo), and that includes Sean Penn. We are living in an age where defiance against all odds is admired.
Its hard to think of a bigger egomaniacal moron than Sean Penn - oh wait, maybe Madonna.
Our plumber will not call us back. Does anyone have Sean's number so we can call him and ask him to intervene?
Why it should be a crime to sell drugs that just make you feel good, such as those Guzman peddles, and not be a crime to sell drugs that kill you, like tobacco, is really hard to understand. Who is the monster? Who deserves to go to jail?
The El Chapo carnival will move on to the next level with the whole corrupt Mexican system benefitting. No justice to see here folks, please move on.
I'm betting that the Penn interview etc. was part of an elaborate hoax set up by Mexico and US law enforcement to trap Guzman. After all such hoaxes have been successfully used in the past. We may never learn the true details of how this was all put together, but it is hard for me to believe any actors would take chances without some type of back-up from law enforcement. CIA? Or something.
Kudos all the way around for his capture!
Kudos all the way around for his capture!
Aside from opening Penn up to potential reprisal from the cartel, I love this story because it confirms the very worst stereotypes about stupid Hollywood types and their fascination with "outlaws" (so long as they don't harbor right wing views like the ones in Oregon.) Funny, while celebrating gangsters, the celebs require their own lifestyles be hermetically-sealed from potential harm -- demanding private jets, huge black SUVs with armed drivers, gated and guarded residences and workplaces.
According to the latest international news it was this interview that did "El Chapo" Guzman in. If I was Sean Penn I'd be looking over my shoulder from now on.
Mr. Penn has given many splendid performances depicting people I consider "bad" and this article is another honest depiction of a person as he sees them. This I know to be true, "We are the consumers, and as such, we are complicit in every murder, and in every corruption of an institution's ability to protect the quality of life for citizens of Mexico and the United States that comes as a result of our insatiable appetite for illicit narcotics. At an American taxpayer cost of $25 billion per year, this war's policies have significantly served to kill our children, drain our economies, overwhelm our cops and courts, pick our pockets, crowd our prisons and punch the clock. Another day's fight is lost. And lost with it, any possible vision of reform, or recognition of the proven benefits in so many other countries achieved through the regulated legalization of recreational drugs." Thank you, Mr. Penn and all who helped make this article possible.
2
January 10 2015
Sugar Daddy and the Falcon spirit in jungle paganism via irrational exuberance - and the next thing will be for Sean to write an Op Contributor to give his narrative to find real artistic movies and better the heroic models of the past and leave the real world to investigative reporting to the times journalist and its readers in submission - so all is right with the world in modern spirit of the faith in the laws of the land and all people living without intoxication of the birds and jaguars or was that Murray Gell Mann -sure ways .... next thing will be Stephen Hawkins will have is song for the Chapo******
jja Manhattan, N. Y.
Sugar Daddy and the Falcon spirit in jungle paganism via irrational exuberance - and the next thing will be for Sean to write an Op Contributor to give his narrative to find real artistic movies and better the heroic models of the past and leave the real world to investigative reporting to the times journalist and its readers in submission - so all is right with the world in modern spirit of the faith in the laws of the land and all people living without intoxication of the birds and jaguars or was that Murray Gell Mann -sure ways .... next thing will be Stephen Hawkins will have is song for the Chapo******
jja Manhattan, N. Y.
Obviously if Mr. Penn had gone down to meet secretly with El Chapo to get drugs to peddle back in America, he'd be in big trouble. On the other hand, merely going there to meet him to get an interview for a story he can peddle back here in America . . . well that's just all fine and dandy. Truth surely is stranger than fiction, likewise celebrity from mere commonality.
Appears Mr. Penn is a tad confused between reality and fiction. To not have alerted authorities to this thug's whereabouts seems, to me, on its face, a criminally negligent act. Did others die in the time since Penn with him as a result of this criminal being free?
I am guessing Penn will regret the day he brought authorities in full force into his private life.
So much head scratching after reading this - unconscionable not matter what spin Penn tries to put out there.
I am guessing Penn will regret the day he brought authorities in full force into his private life.
So much head scratching after reading this - unconscionable not matter what spin Penn tries to put out there.
Sean must have been worried that he's slipping from the limelight...
If El Chapo begins to suspect that his meeting with Sean Penn led to his capture, then I would advise Mr. Penn to hire a squad of very well armed body guards. He will definitely need them.
2
It is amazing how Sean Penn knew the hideout of El Chapo, a fugitive who murdered scores of people while the Mexican authorities did not know his whereabouts. One has to wonder how ethically sound is Rolling Stone Magazine to publish this interview. A year and a half ago, Rolling Stone published an article which was retracted. The article falsely accused the University of Virginia Fraternity of gang raping a Woman. It is also disappointing why this is headline news In the NYT.
2
This reminds me of New Journalism in it's heyday, a la Ramparts, LA Free Press, Mother Jones and, yes, Rolling Stone. Things weren't being reported by the 'establishment' press, so others picked up the story and ran with it, including 'celebrity' reporters like Norman Mailer. Is Sean Penn today's Jane Fonda? Hmmmm....
Penn raises some good, important issues in his reportage. And so does El Chapo. The war on drugs is something akin to the Vietnam war, isn't it?
The solution to the Guzmans, dirty federales on both sides of the border amd the tragic consequences of the things Americans put in their arms and up their noses is to start treating addictions of all kinds as a public health issue instead of crime.
Penn raises some good, important issues in his reportage. And so does El Chapo. The war on drugs is something akin to the Vietnam war, isn't it?
The solution to the Guzmans, dirty federales on both sides of the border amd the tragic consequences of the things Americans put in their arms and up their noses is to start treating addictions of all kinds as a public health issue instead of crime.
5
Would he sell them if Americans didn't buy them? Just a thought.
When I first saw this, the only thing that came to mind was that this was a business meeting. Penn and his associates are the ones who plan to make the movie and this was likely a research and development mission, covered up as a media interview. Penn is not a journalist.
It's interesting how celebrities in high society can easily access the most dangerous people in the world, meanwhile the police can not locate them or even hold them in prison. It really shows how twisted our society has become and is a great example of how fame and power reigns supreme over "justice"
It's interesting how celebrities in high society can easily access the most dangerous people in the world, meanwhile the police can not locate them or even hold them in prison. It really shows how twisted our society has become and is a great example of how fame and power reigns supreme over "justice"
Actually, this has long been true all the way back to highwaymen during the Georgian era, who contacted the press as it was understood at the time while evading authorities. True during the '30s when people like Bonnie & Clyde did it. All through modern history, in fact.
Do you really think this entire thing is real? Do you really think that a Hollywood pretty boy met with this "El Chapo"? This entire story is completely fake.
El Chapo to Penn "How much are they (Rolling Stone magazine) paying you for this? Penn to El Chapo "Nothing, when I do journalism I don't charge anything".
Wonder how much Sean will get for the coming book, movie rights and for playing himself in the film....
Wonder how much Sean will get for the coming book, movie rights and for playing himself in the film....
1
My first reaction was, "Who cares?"
Then I've just read that Mexican officials are claiming that Penn's foolishness and Guzman's narcissism was the the reason for his capture.
I'm certainly not suggesting that Penn deserves any credit, but after all, no one keeps secrets these days and anyone stupid enough to meet with a high profile film star show just how dumb Guzman was.
Then I've just read that Mexican officials are claiming that Penn's foolishness and Guzman's narcissism was the the reason for his capture.
I'm certainly not suggesting that Penn deserves any credit, but after all, no one keeps secrets these days and anyone stupid enough to meet with a high profile film star show just how dumb Guzman was.
1
And now Sean Penn gets to spend the rest of his life looking over his shoulder.
Mas macho!
Mas macho!
So, in other words, El Chapo was the Koch brothers, Walmart, General Motors & War Profiteers, Oligarch-Stockholders-Capitalist of the 21st century all rolled into one? Why isn't this guy an American???
One must wonder if Sean Penn went after an interview with El Chapo because he found it impossible to get an interview with a Koch or Walton or Stephens or the other 533 American Oligarchs worth billions more than El Chapo. We don't know the names of the majority of the 536 US Oligarchs because they practice “Esse, non videri,” Latin for “To be, not to be seen.” But many of them are involved in plenty of El Chapo-ing themselves.
America could be better, yeah, like I'm going to buy the winning ticket for next Wednesday's 1.3 billion dollar Powerball Lottery!
One must wonder if Sean Penn went after an interview with El Chapo because he found it impossible to get an interview with a Koch or Walton or Stephens or the other 533 American Oligarchs worth billions more than El Chapo. We don't know the names of the majority of the 536 US Oligarchs because they practice “Esse, non videri,” Latin for “To be, not to be seen.” But many of them are involved in plenty of El Chapo-ing themselves.
America could be better, yeah, like I'm going to buy the winning ticket for next Wednesday's 1.3 billion dollar Powerball Lottery!
2
I don't understand why he didn't stop at say $1 million, invest and be done with it. Life problems solved.
Anyone who does drugs in any way, grows them, distributes them, sells them, etc., should be jailed for life. Obama thinks that our drug crimes are prosecuted to hard, but what does he know?
It costs $75,000 a year to incarcerate someone. And you want to fill the prisons exponentially with more prisoners? You do realize you'll be paying for that with your taxes, don't you?
This is not too surprising. Hollywood has always glamorized criminals. How else could they make lots of money? Showing a series about Mother Theresa won't bring them as much dough!
1
There's two industries in play here. The illegal drug trade in Mexico that employs (and destroys) thousands of people. And the "War on Drugs" in the U.S. that employs (and destroys) thousands of people.
Unless and until the U.S. government, backed by a more enlightened electorate, declares a cease fire through a legalization of drugs, nothing will ever change. The economic law of supply and demand will continue to overpower and outlast any civil law enforcement efforts no matter how grandly funded.
Unless and until the U.S. government, backed by a more enlightened electorate, declares a cease fire through a legalization of drugs, nothing will ever change. The economic law of supply and demand will continue to overpower and outlast any civil law enforcement efforts no matter how grandly funded.
4
El Chapo, and others before him, is a mere figurehead in a trillion dollar drug business that is perpetuated by our government and others. The drug war creates millions of jobs in the forms of law enforcement, correctional facilities, law enforcement employees, lawyers, judges, and a vast list of tangents. From the bust on Main St., to the border patrols, TSA security, FBI, DEA, local police..... Drugs generate money on both sides of the legal fence. Why would the government want to kill the goose that is laying the golden eggs. From a business standpoint it is much wiser to keep the goose on the juice. Yes of course Hollywood generates billions in movies and TV shows based on the Drug Traffic worldwide making folk heroes out of the players. Hmmm! much like what Rolling Stone is doing sending in there pawn to interview this El Crapo to make a hero out of him. Its interesting how they will justify his ruthless lifestyle and say the poor man did not know how else to make money. After all he is just a misguided farm boy from a beleaguered background. The media loves the drug lords and the war that is waged against them... think of the sales in books, magazines, Newspapers, CNN Stories on life inside the cruel penitentiaries our government has set up to hold these poor misguided individuals, who after all did not know the difference between right or wrong. What a crock! A venumous snake no matter how many years it spends in a cage will always be dangerous.
2
What is it with the likes of Sean Penn and Dennis Rodman? Why do they court individuals with blood on their hands? Sometimes I think performers should just stick to what they know best and keep out of politics and citizen journalism.
1
Perhaps Mr. Penn might interview some of the families who have lost loved ones by beheading by Mr. Guzman's henchmen. He should want to get the broadest possible perspective for his new film, no?
3
If Penn has the moral qualms he claims to have about this country, he should use his influence to make it a better place, not to self-righteously make claims about moral equivalency in the guise of what, exactly--journalism? He may have made himself box office poison by this narco-tourism episode, but at least he'll probably be a prominent character in an upcoming narco corrida. P.S.: Dude, learn how to write.
Sean made the Establishment aid orgs look like fools in Haiti, and he's made the Establishment journo and police orgs look like fools with El Chapo. Which they are of course. No wonder they are now coming down hard on him. Pick your favorite journo and look at her/his twitter feed today. The outrage is comical.
6
I think Sean Penn will have some explaining to do...sometimes life's not a movie.
Oh, please! Obviously Sean Penn's lawyers cooked this up to protect him from legal prosecution should it come out. It's no coincidence that El Chapo gets caught and ten seconds later Penn has a "journalistic" piece being published in Rolling Stone. This is a blatant abuse of journalistic privilege and we should all be up in arms about it! Clearly this whole "interview" was done as a cover. Penn was no doubt counseled by lawyers not to just sit around chatting with El Chapo but to leave a heavy trail looking like this was a journalistic encounter. This interview was saved in abeyance to protect Penn should the need arise. How do people not see this? Clear as glass.
1
It's a great journalist "get" but Penn skims/ignores Chapo's culpability in helping to destroy lives - whether by peddling narcotics or by ordering his henchmen to use violence to further the business interests of the cartel.
I don't believe Penn is immoral. But his opinions and actions show him to be amoral.
Which is worse?
I don't believe Penn is immoral. But his opinions and actions show him to be amoral.
Which is worse?
Sean Penn wrote a good interesting article.I thought he showed both sides.So many good people have died in Mexico a result
of the drug industry.Do these cocaine or heroin users in North
America ever think of the many who died so they can have their fix.Drug users start out by choosing to take cocaine or heroin- they are responsible for their own addiction -not the poor people of Mexico or Columbia or the dangerous drug cartels
of the drug industry.Do these cocaine or heroin users in North
America ever think of the many who died so they can have their fix.Drug users start out by choosing to take cocaine or heroin- they are responsible for their own addiction -not the poor people of Mexico or Columbia or the dangerous drug cartels
1
I would rather give a voice to all of those that's voices were taken away from this murderer. Let's not humanize him or make him into some kind of folk hero he is not.
I fail to see how Sean Penn's antics are front page, above the fold, news. Not what I expect from the NY Times.
I was aghast to see Mr. Penn pose with this murderous thug. But than we saw Mr. Rodman pose with the Korean leader. Neither is a journalist. I can understand a journalist interviewing them but sportsman and movie stars consorting with these villains can serve no purpose. I just hope that Mr. Penn inadvertently lead to his capture.
Sean Penn was a journalist who was working for Rolling Stone, or maybe a free lance journalist when he interviewed 'El Chapo". Why are you making such a big deal out of this? Sean Penn did nothing wrong according to journalistic protocol. If he did then so did all other journalists who interviewed bad people who were wanted for crimes and did not tell the authorities their location.
3
The delusional world of Hollywood. Whole generations grow up using Star Trek, Batman, Disney or worse as their models for education and moral compass. Actors have their lives threatened by playing parts or discourse and teach on social and technological affairs way beyond their expertise. Drug lords, gangsters, psychotics and dangerous criminals find inspiration for ways to perpetuate misery. It's all there on the big and small screens to stimulate and entertain us. No wonder Trump and Reagan mastered theater and entertainment first to forward their careers and further the delusion cycle.
Is there any form of pernicious populism in Latin America that Sean Penn won't get behind? It's really beyond the pale when people here use an entirely different set of standards in LatAm for behavior that they would never in a million years tolerate in the U.S.
Once again Sean Penn's embracing more than questionable characters that evoke in him the romantic Robin Hood type heroes of his Hollywood fueled imagination.
2
As a screenwriter, I have worked with many well-known stars and directors. I often try to explain to friends not in the business the unfathomable level of narcissism, self-importance, and grandiosity that some (certainly not all) of them exhibit. Now, I will just say: Sean Penn.
3
If you are a screenwriter, I'm surprised you didn't see why Penn jumped at the chance to interview someone like El Chapo.
1
Sean Penn, Rolling Stone and Kate Whatever had contacted or were in contact with this serial murderer. That by itself makes them co-conspirators and partners in all the vicious crimes committed by Guzmán. They knew the Law Enforcement forces, both in Mexico and the U.S were desperately looking for him. Maybe, his overtures to Hollywood finally brought his capture after his escape. But the interview was conducted long before in 1993! Did all these people get enriched by this relationship? Did they deliberately and knowingly suppress evidence of Chapo's crimes and whereabouts? Rolling Stone and Sean Penn are also culpable. The whole saga leaves everyone incredulous. Were the millions spent by Sean Penn on admirable humanitarian causes, El Chapo's? Or was he just assuaging his conscience? If so, Sean Penn should be treated as a criminal and indicted with a sentence that befits the crime. His celebrity status should'nt stop from getting the maximum sentence like Mark Wahlberg got away with his pseudo regret and repentance.
2
Sean Penn's Rolling Stone article was more about Mr. Penn than it was about El Chapo. We learn more about Mr. Penn than we do about El Chapo, which is unfortunate since we already know more than enough about Mr. Penn and his narcissism. The interview itself was horrible. We learned nothing from the interview nor does Mr. Penn challenge Mr. Loera in anyway. Yes, Rolling Stone and Mr. Penn went to great lengths to obtain an exclusive interview - but only to feed the attention-seeking desires of a man who runs a drug cartel that is responsible for the murder of thousands. Everyone involved with this project should be ashamed.
3
I would rather not live in a world where all journalism must be first approved by the US government like so many sheep commenters here believe. Penn went out and did an interview with El Chapo. El Chapo did it in return for publicity and a movie deal (which no professional journalist could ever live up to promise). Rolling Stone published it because it's fascinating and polemic, all at the same time. The world needs more characters not less. And I'll be the first one in-line to read about them.
6
We'll all have just as much blood on our hands and Penn and the editors of Rolling Stone once we pay to go see the movie.
1
Drugs are not disease, they are the result of poverty. The increasingly rich .1% of the world are the disease. Guzman? There will always be bottom-feeders like him to take advantage of a world created by "people" like trump and his ilk.
2
The phenomenon of actors not being happy with just portraying characters from the real world seems to apply here.How much more satisfying to play on the world stage like El Chapo. Penn is good at making the world real on film but makes a fool of himself when he thinks he can leap beyond Hollywood to influence and sidle up to the movers and shaker of global events.El Chapo lives in a world of life or death consequences to his actions. If Sean screws up in a performance he just gets sidelined.I think that this level of danger Penn knows will always be beyond him.
1
Sean Penn is one of the great actors of our times and an inspired activist. I certainly hope that the U.S. and Mexican Governments make clear that while they may have tapped his phones and monitored his activities that he was unaware and had nothing to do with this capture. Otherwise, he, his family and friends may be in great danger. This needs clarification immediately.
2
NOT!
Sean Penn and his self-absorbed voyeuristic adventures. But, unlike Haiti and Argentina, the cartel has soldiers all over America and the world. He'd better hope that none of them see killing him as a path to promotion.
If I were him, I'd keep my doors locked. Hollywood Sean is about to realize the timing of the arrest with the release of his interview may not be so good for his life expectancy. He might want to check into how many Mexican journalists have been tortured and killed over the last 10 years. As El Chapo says, "some people grow up with problems...and that creates violence." Simple, no?
The cartel doesn't have friends, they have interests, in this case a movie. No movie? Interests change.
If I were him, I'd keep my doors locked. Hollywood Sean is about to realize the timing of the arrest with the release of his interview may not be so good for his life expectancy. He might want to check into how many Mexican journalists have been tortured and killed over the last 10 years. As El Chapo says, "some people grow up with problems...and that creates violence." Simple, no?
The cartel doesn't have friends, they have interests, in this case a movie. No movie? Interests change.
4
This is great publicity for a has been actor. Negative attention is better than no attention. I never liked this man and cannot remember the last film he made. Maybe this is his 15 minutes of fame. If he does make a film or appear in one, this NYT reader will not attend.
In the Sopranos, Tony told the psychiatrist that he wasn't a bad person although he had personally killed numerous people. When pressed, he said really bad people rape and murder children.
I'm sure Hitler didn't think he was a bad person.
Apparently, everyone thinks someone else is worse.
Looking forward to the movie version. Or the HBO or Netflix series.
I'm sure Hitler didn't think he was a bad person.
Apparently, everyone thinks someone else is worse.
Looking forward to the movie version. Or the HBO or Netflix series.
1
Sean Penn are wannabe's, the kind who hangs out at the coke dealers house all day just to be near them. I admire Sean Penn but he asked all soft-ball, leading questions and acted like he had a man-crush. All drug dealers say: "If I don't do it, somebody else would." But if you don't do it, you won't be doing it. He and anyone else living that low life need to take responsibility. And, yes, he is a murderer. He perceives it as necessity and self defense because he has no problem killing to maintain his business. Many, many people have chosen not to become king or queen pins because they didn't want to murder people. It is a choice, and his choosing to kill is not a sign of greater fortitude at all. Yes, he is charismatic. That's how he got where he is. The same could be said for Hitler, Bin Laden and the leader of ISIS. And just because many consumers here in the USA have funded him that doesn't mean that innocent children, siblings and parents who are suffering right now are responsible and somehow justify him. Nor does the addiction of his users justify his part in facilitating their suffering and death. He doesn't have to take responsibility for the entire problem, just his significant part in it. Sean Penn, you have glorified him (despite your politically correct, superficial assurances that you know he's a bad guy), and have just taken a couple of notches out of your karma IMHO
2
What comes out of Penn’s interview with one of the world’s biggest and most ruthless drug dealers will likely be newsworthy and fascinating.
Penn may be narcissistic, but his bravery must also be acknowledged. The reporting he has done here will surely be more informative than what we get from the weekly call-in interviews Washington’s leading journalists conduct with Donald Trump on our national TV networks and cable news shows. Much of the reader sanctimony about Penn’s interview seems misplaced.
Penn may be narcissistic, but his bravery must also be acknowledged. The reporting he has done here will surely be more informative than what we get from the weekly call-in interviews Washington’s leading journalists conduct with Donald Trump on our national TV networks and cable news shows. Much of the reader sanctimony about Penn’s interview seems misplaced.
2
It seems absurd but, eventually, even a criminal may be admired for his skills in exploiting the evil. The most important part is to be the best. Excellence never goes out of style.
Beg to differ with Mr. Guzman ... the US government provides far more drugs ... they even pump drugs to children for all types of silly reasons ...
Fresh off the false University of Virgina "fraternity rape" story, Rolling Stone continues to lower the bar of journalism.
2
El Chapo should have switched his strategy and gotten into selling a far more addictive, destructive and wildly popular drug: OIL
Best of all, it's still legal!
Best of all, it's still legal!
2
Actually, I read the RS article and that was discussed in their conversation.
El chapo is no different than any thug or gang leader\member. He states he was a victim who had no choices when it came to survival. But what he's really saying is that drugs pay, pay much more than honest work. He did not need to do what he's done to defend or support his family. He did it to be rich and powerful. And, he is a violent killer.
Not too happy with Penn or Rolling Stone for helping this outlaw stay hidden while they try to make him more famous.
Not too happy with Penn or Rolling Stone for helping this outlaw stay hidden while they try to make him more famous.
4
El Chapo reminds me of the Mafia credo of old, "Nothing personal. It's just business".
My grandfather had to pay protection to the Mafia in a time when Italians were included among the targets of WASP bigotry, even by both police and judges. My father said my grandfather would treat the man who came to collect the "protection" money with great respect, offering him wine and food and a place at their table. The Mafia also were treated like folk heroes, even though everyone knew of what they were capable. They operated largely in the full light of day.
Some things just do not change. Organized crime cannot exist without sponsorship.
El Chapo is a symptom, not a cause.
My grandfather had to pay protection to the Mafia in a time when Italians were included among the targets of WASP bigotry, even by both police and judges. My father said my grandfather would treat the man who came to collect the "protection" money with great respect, offering him wine and food and a place at their table. The Mafia also were treated like folk heroes, even though everyone knew of what they were capable. They operated largely in the full light of day.
Some things just do not change. Organized crime cannot exist without sponsorship.
El Chapo is a symptom, not a cause.
What creates violence is Mexico's $4 a day minimum wage.
2
And U.S. trade policies vis a vis the WTO.
Sean Penn appears to have the same megalomania shared by Escobar and Guzman. It brings otherwise smart people (even with bad intentions) to their knees.
The data shows the only way to impact the drug industry is to make it financially unrewarding. Decriminalizing use and getting users appropriate treatment has been proven to work. Unfortunately our legislators either cannot read the studies or are too busy with their self-interests to do something that would truly have a meaningful and lasting impact on the drug trade and truly help those who need help.
Wth current financial rewards, this guy will be replaced by another, and the the same will happen with the next successor.
Wth current financial rewards, this guy will be replaced by another, and the the same will happen with the next successor.
3
Jeez! He had a family make dinner for them. Couldn't he manage a clean t-shirt?!!
1
This is a very dramatic story but it misses the main point: since "El Chapo" was in jail did drug dealing and consumption go down at all?
The criminalization of narcotic drugs has been an immense failure which has cost the lives of countless people and warped governments around the world. Let's start using our brains instead of our brawn - legalize and control these drugs, and help people who become addicted (as we do with alcohol, for instance).
Humanity will look back at the drug policies of today in the same way we look back upon debtor prisons.
The criminalization of narcotic drugs has been an immense failure which has cost the lives of countless people and warped governments around the world. Let's start using our brains instead of our brawn - legalize and control these drugs, and help people who become addicted (as we do with alcohol, for instance).
Humanity will look back at the drug policies of today in the same way we look back upon debtor prisons.
3
The prose so purple, and journalism so yellow, Sean Penn's article looked like a Los Angeles Lakers uniform.
All of that effort to escape from jail. Then he throws it away for an interview. There will not be another escape for him.
1
I like this guy, El Chapo.
He's right. He's not the evil one.
The demand exists for his products, he's only supplying it.
If the US and Mexico are serious about reducing violence, crime, corruption, they need to be partial to Mr. Chapo or another.
If one drug lord that the US likes can be allowed to operate, that would probably mean fewer bodies.
The US has done this kind of thing before.
He's right. He's not the evil one.
The demand exists for his products, he's only supplying it.
If the US and Mexico are serious about reducing violence, crime, corruption, they need to be partial to Mr. Chapo or another.
If one drug lord that the US likes can be allowed to operate, that would probably mean fewer bodies.
The US has done this kind of thing before.
1
Why don't you google "Sinaloa execution" and comb through the images awhile. Then you might see what the real problem is with shaking hands and catering to the likes of El Chapo.
I, of course, want to see an end to illegal drugs and people like this put in jail. However, PRESCRIBED DRUG ADDICTION is rampant in America and we must have the same outrage for doctors who over-prescribe - and fraudulently prescribe - them.
2
If he did this without informing the authorities then he should be arrested for aiding and abetting.
I'm honestly shocked by this entire story. I hope that this was done to help put El Chapo behind bars and not for publicity because El Chapo is a monster for the crimes he has been involved in. Hopefully through this interview, someone will be able to finally put a stop to El Chapo.
I was especially disturbed by his description of his justification for killing. I don't understand how El Chapo can be described in such positivities based on the crimes that he has committed.
I was especially disturbed by his description of his justification for killing. I don't understand how El Chapo can be described in such positivities based on the crimes that he has committed.
The truly disturbing thing about this isn't El Chapo or Sean Penn, but the comments posted by NYTimes readers. The ignorance, hypocrisy, and hatred you people spew makes me ashamed. Shame on you.
1
Most commenters sure don't like Sean Penn. Many mock him. But to demonize him for this interview is ridiculous. Or perhaps it's rooted in jealousy -- for how many 55 year olds have the courage to traipse half a day through jungles, forests, and mountain roads to interview a most wanted man. Though Mr. Penn's interview was not completed as he intended, we learned much from his efforts. Mostly though we are reminded that our own American drug hunger fuels the Mexican narco-wars. Stop the hunger and you stop priming the source. Eliminate El Chapo and there's a dozen more like him ready to take the lead. Kudos to Mr. Penn for going where few of us would dare to go.
33
It would take more courage to interview a child whose family and neighborhood had been maimed by Senior Guzman's business interests. We have thousands of people in our prisons who were Senior Guzman's customers and distributors. Mr. Penn's concern is his own mythology. The people one should care about are totally absent from this endeavor of his.
1
Where are the kudos for the 60 Mexican journalists who have been killed in the past decade for attempting to expose the death and devastation wrought by El Chapo?
Guzman Loera is transforming himself from shy guy to the Donald Trump of Mexico
2
The arrogance and lack of humanity expressed by Mr. Guzman is not surprising since we have seen hundreds of photos over the years of the death and destruction left by his organization of criminal murderers and drug trafficking predators.
The fact that Sean Penn, the steadfast supporter of the now dead dictator Hugo Chavez, is angling for a film project with Mr. Guzman is disturbing, but not surprising. One can hope that Mr. Penn was secretly working with the United States DEA and the Mexican government to set Mr. Guzman up to be captured, but it is more likely that the Mexican actress supporter of Mr. Guzman and Mr. Penn were simply interested in working out a deal for a film.
If a film helps crush this group of Mexican drug terrorists perhaps Mr. Penn will accomplish something worthwhile. Otherwise, Mr. Guzman has already had his many years of fame as a mass murderer and collaborating with him to make a film about him is not morally defensible and Mr. Guzman's explanations of his life and business are the same pedestrian reasons other lesser criminals give to justify their actions.
It is time for Guzman and all of his henchmen to be locked up and disappear from civilization and for the media and the rest of us to focus on why our society allows these predators to kill us and poison us with drugs, and what to do with the increasing USA population that is willing to take the drugs that Mr. Guzman brags about supplying to us.
The fact that Sean Penn, the steadfast supporter of the now dead dictator Hugo Chavez, is angling for a film project with Mr. Guzman is disturbing, but not surprising. One can hope that Mr. Penn was secretly working with the United States DEA and the Mexican government to set Mr. Guzman up to be captured, but it is more likely that the Mexican actress supporter of Mr. Guzman and Mr. Penn were simply interested in working out a deal for a film.
If a film helps crush this group of Mexican drug terrorists perhaps Mr. Penn will accomplish something worthwhile. Otherwise, Mr. Guzman has already had his many years of fame as a mass murderer and collaborating with him to make a film about him is not morally defensible and Mr. Guzman's explanations of his life and business are the same pedestrian reasons other lesser criminals give to justify their actions.
It is time for Guzman and all of his henchmen to be locked up and disappear from civilization and for the media and the rest of us to focus on why our society allows these predators to kill us and poison us with drugs, and what to do with the increasing USA population that is willing to take the drugs that Mr. Guzman brags about supplying to us.
Sean Penn the same who endorsed the Venezuelan dictator seems in character for a typical Hollywood jerk.
2
The article illustrates the parallels between the U.S. Government's (irrespective of whether it is Democrat or Republican) efforts to tackle a problem by taking out the current figure head, hoping that will do it. That approach is manifest in the publicized killing of the ISIL leaders or arrest of drug lords.
The reality is that individual villains don't matter. The government may be able to claim a quick photo-op win, but the underlying problem remains and will continue to fester till the underlying cause is addressed. In ISIL's case, there will just be another bearded idiot taking the place of the bearded idiot who was knocked out.
Have the courage to address the root of the problem: in drugs at the production or consumption end, in terrorism: confront the hateful ideology spreading mullahs funded by the Saudis.
Don't look for symbolic wins. They are ephemeral.
The reality is that individual villains don't matter. The government may be able to claim a quick photo-op win, but the underlying problem remains and will continue to fester till the underlying cause is addressed. In ISIL's case, there will just be another bearded idiot taking the place of the bearded idiot who was knocked out.
Have the courage to address the root of the problem: in drugs at the production or consumption end, in terrorism: confront the hateful ideology spreading mullahs funded by the Saudis.
Don't look for symbolic wins. They are ephemeral.
4
wise words
Truth.
"Captured". Scene 3. Take 1...... Cut. It's a wrap.
It may be one of the most difficult American conundrums to admit. Business men in the US believe "business is business." Few admit their establishments launder money for various thugs and terror groups. To these business men, it's just "business as usual."
Check out the number of lawsuits against several top politicians who knowingly laundered money through their businesses. These are the same cretons who claim they can't get a fair trial because there is no jury of their peers who understands their brand of business or finance. When you consider this is the excuse JP Morgan Chase's CEO, Jamie Dimon used to get out of being held accountable for "banking errors" he'd rather the Justice Dept and Dept. of Banking and Insurances forget about, you see the truth how drug money is laundered by the corporate elitists.
Check out the number of lawsuits against several top politicians who knowingly laundered money through their businesses. These are the same cretons who claim they can't get a fair trial because there is no jury of their peers who understands their brand of business or finance. When you consider this is the excuse JP Morgan Chase's CEO, Jamie Dimon used to get out of being held accountable for "banking errors" he'd rather the Justice Dept and Dept. of Banking and Insurances forget about, you see the truth how drug money is laundered by the corporate elitists.
2
Whoa, Spicoli interviews the world's biggest dealer!
I'll give Sean Penn a pass. Pretty courageous actually. Remember, El Chapo doesn't exist if America didn't have an insatiable appetite for averting reality.
We laughed when Spicoli said, "let's party!"
It's not that funny, really.
I'll give Sean Penn a pass. Pretty courageous actually. Remember, El Chapo doesn't exist if America didn't have an insatiable appetite for averting reality.
We laughed when Spicoli said, "let's party!"
It's not that funny, really.
20
Most of the comments found here are ridiculous. How is an interview with a drug kingpin - though almost comically he looks like a farmer - wanted by the law a good or valuable or interesting thing? The man heads up a barbaric, vicious operation that murders rivals and the innocent at will. I've lost all respect for Penn. Rolling Stone is on a death spiral.
2
Why are we praising such a despicable human being? Or beings, in plural, for Penn's baroque writing and Del Castillo's face does not wash away the profound pain that Guzmán has inflicted to the world as he so pompously tells Penn.
I think that both Penn and Del Castillo should be indicted for obstruction of justice alongside Guzmán. And society should have an honest and long look at itself for we are celebrating evil.
P.S. The New York Times, the nickname is "Chapo", the Spanish article "El" ("The") should not be included. Basic grammar, really.
I think that both Penn and Del Castillo should be indicted for obstruction of justice alongside Guzmán. And society should have an honest and long look at itself for we are celebrating evil.
P.S. The New York Times, the nickname is "Chapo", the Spanish article "El" ("The") should not be included. Basic grammar, really.
1
1) Sean Penn had better watch his back;
2) Mr. Guzman’s comments underscore the need to de-criminalize heroin and other illicit drugs.
Why? 1) Our current approach clearly does not work. It only diverts huge amounts of money that could be used for education, infrastructure, new energy technology, etc. to a futile “war” on drugs: 2) Decriminalization would remove the enormous profit incentive and thus undermine the economies that keep people like Guzman, and organizations like the Taliban, Al-Qaeda, ISIS et. al. in business.
I am not saying decriminalization will cure everything. But our current policy is not working. Why don’t we give decriminalization a chance and see what happens? I know that a lot of bureaucracies that depend on fighting illicit drugs for their livelihood will be against this. But again, the money could be used for more essential, more productive projects that themselves might give rise to new jobs and economies.
To those who say the system works and cite his capture as evidence, I say someone will replace him as surely as he replaced Escobar. To those who say decriminalization will encourage more people to use drugs, I say consider the fact that alcohol and cigarettes are legal (prohibition certainly did not help), and consider the example of European countries where they are not illegal.
2) Mr. Guzman’s comments underscore the need to de-criminalize heroin and other illicit drugs.
Why? 1) Our current approach clearly does not work. It only diverts huge amounts of money that could be used for education, infrastructure, new energy technology, etc. to a futile “war” on drugs: 2) Decriminalization would remove the enormous profit incentive and thus undermine the economies that keep people like Guzman, and organizations like the Taliban, Al-Qaeda, ISIS et. al. in business.
I am not saying decriminalization will cure everything. But our current policy is not working. Why don’t we give decriminalization a chance and see what happens? I know that a lot of bureaucracies that depend on fighting illicit drugs for their livelihood will be against this. But again, the money could be used for more essential, more productive projects that themselves might give rise to new jobs and economies.
To those who say the system works and cite his capture as evidence, I say someone will replace him as surely as he replaced Escobar. To those who say decriminalization will encourage more people to use drugs, I say consider the fact that alcohol and cigarettes are legal (prohibition certainly did not help), and consider the example of European countries where they are not illegal.
The lesson for all our celebrities, reality TV at the end of the day, can do you in.
This article reminds me of the editorial the Times printed on 9/11/2001 featuring BillAyers who stated he would do what he did all over again.
So go ahead NYTimes and glorify these people and hypocritically call for "gun control".
So go ahead NYTimes and glorify these people and hypocritically call for "gun control".
1
Hubris meets hubris.
1
fabulous reminder of the human mind to rationalize our actions, both by Mr.Guzman and also Mr.Penn
1
You have to give Sean Penn credit for, perhaps, two reasons; first, having the courage to go to a vicious violent drug overlord and secondly, in getting that same overlord to finally admit he is a major illegal drug supplier.
I see many in these comments below are casting stones toward Penn. They probably don't like him because of his politics anyway and forever want him to remain Spicolli in Fast Times At Ridgemont High. But Sean Penn as well as myself and many others of our age grew up in the ridiculous time of watching an actor become president who is now dieified even though he approved of drugs, missiles and death squads to deal with socialist governments they didn't want in our hemisphere. Of course Penn is Liberal. If that's how conservatives operate then how can it be wrong for an actor to be a journalist interviewing (not colluding with) a known drug overlord?
This world is so ridiculous that 15 to 20% of the people reading this NYT thinks Trump is a viable presidential candidate.
I see many in these comments below are casting stones toward Penn. They probably don't like him because of his politics anyway and forever want him to remain Spicolli in Fast Times At Ridgemont High. But Sean Penn as well as myself and many others of our age grew up in the ridiculous time of watching an actor become president who is now dieified even though he approved of drugs, missiles and death squads to deal with socialist governments they didn't want in our hemisphere. Of course Penn is Liberal. If that's how conservatives operate then how can it be wrong for an actor to be a journalist interviewing (not colluding with) a known drug overlord?
This world is so ridiculous that 15 to 20% of the people reading this NYT thinks Trump is a viable presidential candidate.
3
This is Progressive Hollywood Liberalism? This is how they roll? These are their values? Good. Super job.
1
Are we fascinated by the King Rat of Rat Park?, or just interested in the travails of another rich guy?
S.P. polishing his cult of personality knob called Celebrity Maintenance.
Being antisocial is bad, why? Addiction is bad, why? Drug war: do I need to dress?
1
This story has stirred up too many thoughts/anxieties in me.
I'm not sure what to make of Mr. Penn's adventure. He is not an investigative journalist, at least, to my knowledge, he has not done any investigative reporting in the past. He obviously knew this was going to be a big story. Was he hunting for potential movie material? I don't know, but the Rolling Stone's aegis makes me wonder if the motivation here was indeed hunting down a big story with all of its concomitant publicity/fame "benefits."
What freaks me out the most is the realization of the sheer size of corruption at all levels, whether legislative, law enforcement, army, etc. spanning the globe!!! This is the parasite that makes cartels like Mr. Guzman's possible in the first place!! The parasite breeds from inside, from an ordinary policeman or a prison guard to powerful politicians. Oh, we all are in trouble!
One thing I'm not clear about the way it's written up in the story: Ms. del Castillo twitted supportive messages about making a movie about Mr. Guzman or Mr. Guzman himself? Either way, this doesn't sound right!
I'm not sure what to make of Mr. Penn's adventure. He is not an investigative journalist, at least, to my knowledge, he has not done any investigative reporting in the past. He obviously knew this was going to be a big story. Was he hunting for potential movie material? I don't know, but the Rolling Stone's aegis makes me wonder if the motivation here was indeed hunting down a big story with all of its concomitant publicity/fame "benefits."
What freaks me out the most is the realization of the sheer size of corruption at all levels, whether legislative, law enforcement, army, etc. spanning the globe!!! This is the parasite that makes cartels like Mr. Guzman's possible in the first place!! The parasite breeds from inside, from an ordinary policeman or a prison guard to powerful politicians. Oh, we all are in trouble!
One thing I'm not clear about the way it's written up in the story: Ms. del Castillo twitted supportive messages about making a movie about Mr. Guzman or Mr. Guzman himself? Either way, this doesn't sound right!
1
Is Sean Penn going to remain a public figure? Is so, how? Is the US Gov't offering him the gov't protection program? This softie left coast tough guy wannabe is a stupendous actor but he has neither the street smart survival skills of a Sammy Gravano & the likes of other notorious rats, nor the anonymit of undercover agents. And few, if any, have the revengeful depth of resources of the kingpin he helped fell!
If I were Sean Penn, I would use what I learned in Hollywood to wear lots of make up and seek out the best plastic surgeons!
If I were Sean Penn, I would use what I learned in Hollywood to wear lots of make up and seek out the best plastic surgeons!
1
Notwithstanding Sean Penn's humanitarian efforts in Haiti and his continued involvement in humanitarian causes, this RS piece comes across as naive and self-aggrandasizing. What else than name recognition and fame hunger would compel an actor, who is talented and unpredictable (the Madonna years come to mind) to agree to a meeting with someone who has brought unspeakable pain to hundreds or thousands of his own countrymen/women? Even the fart episode seems silly and childish in a - "Yeah dude, I let one rip in front of a mass murderer"-way. And as of a few minutes ago, international news are reporting that that interview was what brought "El Chapo" down. One cell phone was being tracked by the Mexican authorities. Good luck, Sean. To conclude, of course El Chapo's (maybe again just temporary) incarceration will not make a dent in the flow of drugs to the USA. The market/demand is in control, not any cartel.
1
People have short memories!! Do some research on Penn's hate for America because of what and how he still believes America hurt his father. If his father was unjustly mistreated, so were others and forgiveness is cleansing for the soul. All he needs is more forgiveness. Check out, Bryan Cranston “Trumbo” Enough said!!!
Like Sean Penn showing up in Katrina (cameras in tow), none of this is striking.
What shocks me is the moral strength of most readers around here to call wrong wrong and not give him a pass bc "he thinks like us" and is liberal.
What shocks me is the moral strength of most readers around here to call wrong wrong and not give him a pass bc "he thinks like us" and is liberal.
The anti Penn rants are so predictable.
He doesn't condone El Chapo.
I'm happy that he was able to open up more information about an admittedly gross figure. Let's get as much information on people as possible.
Journalists interview atrocious people all the time.
It's what is supposed to happen.
He doesn't condone El Chapo.
I'm happy that he was able to open up more information about an admittedly gross figure. Let's get as much information on people as possible.
Journalists interview atrocious people all the time.
It's what is supposed to happen.
3
Looks like Sean Penn has been gathering inspiration for "The Falcon and the Snowman II"
Should Sean Penn have told the authorities about El Chapo's whereabouts people ask - well not if he had a seriously big death wish. That the Mexican authorities said that the interview helped catch El Chapo should be of concern to Sean Penn.
Should Sean Penn have told the authorities about El Chapo's whereabouts people ask - well not if he had a seriously big death wish. That the Mexican authorities said that the interview helped catch El Chapo should be of concern to Sean Penn.
Did DOJ, WH, SOS, FBI all give permission? If not aside from being a traitor why no charges? Just because he's of the same ideology does not get him a pass. Im not anti Sean Penn but this is beyond belief no matter how much money he raises for the socialist democrat party
Really fascinating on too many levels to hit in one comment.
I'll take a different tack than most.
Whether in the US, Mexico or wherever, people want basically the same basics.
To live a life of security (financial and personal) decency, respect and justice.
Remove any of these elements and humans will mutate into places and forms that are aberrant. Mildly or radically.
Drugs are just one accoutrement of the mutation.
A baby born as I write this needs things to survive and thrive that we all know. Brainstorm a few: food, shelter, secure, prosperous parents and environs…love, opportunity as it grows, the backing of society with policy priorities that put that baby's well being at the top of all considerations and especially ahead of the priorities of a small wealthy cabal that, in any human group, will seek to serve itself above that baby.
I envision a more enlightened world by and by and I long for the US to get on board. I would say lead but we are already behind so many western allies in measures of humanity.
Heck, we can't even agree that basic health services are a right that serves the nation and not a profit source!
Drugs take the user temporarily to a world of bliss and well being. What a desperate way to go there.
My well being, and perhaps yours, was fostered by a life rich with the attributes I mentioned above. Drugs only interfere with my world.
Focus on what a baby, child, teen, adult need to be whole. Focus on that and El Chapo can't exist.
I'll take a different tack than most.
Whether in the US, Mexico or wherever, people want basically the same basics.
To live a life of security (financial and personal) decency, respect and justice.
Remove any of these elements and humans will mutate into places and forms that are aberrant. Mildly or radically.
Drugs are just one accoutrement of the mutation.
A baby born as I write this needs things to survive and thrive that we all know. Brainstorm a few: food, shelter, secure, prosperous parents and environs…love, opportunity as it grows, the backing of society with policy priorities that put that baby's well being at the top of all considerations and especially ahead of the priorities of a small wealthy cabal that, in any human group, will seek to serve itself above that baby.
I envision a more enlightened world by and by and I long for the US to get on board. I would say lead but we are already behind so many western allies in measures of humanity.
Heck, we can't even agree that basic health services are a right that serves the nation and not a profit source!
Drugs take the user temporarily to a world of bliss and well being. What a desperate way to go there.
My well being, and perhaps yours, was fostered by a life rich with the attributes I mentioned above. Drugs only interfere with my world.
Focus on what a baby, child, teen, adult need to be whole. Focus on that and El Chapo can't exist.
3
I like your comment!!
This explains why his girlfriend ghosted him. He would have put his loved ones in incredible danger.
I am so amazed and yes speechless that Mr Penn feels his "celebrity" allows him to consort with known felons and a person on the FBI's most wanted list. Mr Penn will be another actor on my list of who's movies I will not go to see.
And while I realize Mr Penn has aided in many humanitarian efforts he has a lot of explaining to do. Thoroughly disgusted.
And while I realize Mr Penn has aided in many humanitarian efforts he has a lot of explaining to do. Thoroughly disgusted.
El Chapo was cool when he worked with the CIA. Now he is a bad guy?
Sorry but I am not a typical brainwashed american fool.
Sorry but I am not a typical brainwashed american fool.
1
You are absolutely right
Rolling Stone and Penn ..what next a feature article on Isis, and how it is the US and the West are getting wrong. They are just simple people who are misunderstood and we are at fault for not understanding the true purpose of Islam.
This is a good profile of human condition and human desperation. A man who grows up poor and has few options but to participate in the drug trade. A magazine desperate for a story. Actors desperate for a movie role. Drug addicts desperate for a fix.
Not all the above had the same level of desperation but they want what they want and really don't care about anyone else.
Not all the above had the same level of desperation but they want what they want and really don't care about anyone else.
1
Penn should be charged and prosecuted under any of several Mexican and U.S. laws regarding harboring, aiding and giving comfort to a known international criminal fugitive.
Wow. The power of the rich and famous to accomplish things.
Hobos is this okay, legal or moral? Shame on Sean Penn.
I assume, perhaps incorrectly, that Penn consulted with his attorneys before going off and meeting with an international pariah, a fugitive of US law. I believe that if he knew where Guzman was hiding and did not tell the US authorities, that might be construed as helping and abetting, etc. Maybe Sean Penn needs a few years behind bars to understand that liberty is encumbered with obligations, and those include not helping murderers and drug pushers.
Mr. Spicoli, what are you doing?
1
First, how does a famous actor like Penn wake up one day and decide: "I think I'll go interview the world's most notorious drug lord in the middle of the jungle surrounded by hundreds of gun toting thugs"? Wouldn't that set off alarms in a 'normal' person's head?
Second, how does Penn justify not immediately going to the authorities to tell them where this monster was hiding out? Wouldn't there be some shred of justice in Penn's mind for the hundreds of people that 'El Chapo' has murdered?
And they wonder why many Americans don't have much respect for Hollywood.
Second, how does Penn justify not immediately going to the authorities to tell them where this monster was hiding out? Wouldn't there be some shred of justice in Penn's mind for the hundreds of people that 'El Chapo' has murdered?
And they wonder why many Americans don't have much respect for Hollywood.
Follow the money folks. If there wasn't any money to be made here Mr. Penn and his ilk would not be in the news.
I suggest that in his travels he might stop in Oregon and check out the Yee Haw Posse at the wildlife refuge so we could understand why they're not in handcuffs.
I suggest that in his travels he might stop in Oregon and check out the Yee Haw Posse at the wildlife refuge so we could understand why they're not in handcuffs.
1
I've heard them referred to as Y'all Qaeda...
1
Bizarre, thoughtless choice by Sean Penn to interview this guy. I find myself agreeing with some of the most predictably hysterical reactions from the right.
1
As my Mother always said "Where there's a will, there's a way."
Aside from the killing, I don't see much difference between El Chapo's business ethics and our pharmaceutical sector's ethics. At least El Chapo doesn't engage in activities designed to increase the use of his drugs. Big pharma's pain killers expand the market for El Chapo's heroin.
Big pharma also bribes doctors to push their drugs and lobbies the government for subsidies and to keep the prices high. Maybe that's where El Chapo "draws the line"?
Big pharma also bribes doctors to push their drugs and lobbies the government for subsidies and to keep the prices high. Maybe that's where El Chapo "draws the line"?
1
As I recall El Chapo threatened to kill Donald Trump for his comments about Mexicans and or Mexico. Trump is still alive and El Chapo is in jail. Trump's popularity knows no boundaries. Let us hope Trump wins the GOP nomination for President and beats Hillary Clinton. That latest poll on real clear politics has him leading Hillary in a head to head match up for the first time ever.
Sean Penn doing a favor for friend Jann Wenner who desperately wants to right his ship, Rolling Stone?
The Mexican society is corrupt, that is why this business goes on with impunity.
We're all just commodities up for sale for the right price and old El Chapo just got sold. We can all relax now. The Drug War is over. Right?
It is my fervent hope that Mr. Guzman gets his wish and dies of natural causes............ after a good 25-30 years in a US super max prison. He will have plenty of time to learn English in the interim.
Why is nobody seeing the obvious? Penn is the US distributor for El Chapo. Oh , yeah. He was just there to write a story for a magazine that publishes fake stories about campus rapes. When did Penn become a reporter? Reminds me of the child molesters on To Catch a Predator who claim they were teaching kids the dangers of the Internet.
There are only two ways to stop all the violence that is the drug trade: 1) make all drugs legal; or, 2) stop buying them. passing laws making them illegal will not stop them any more than making alcohol illegal stopped the manufacture and consumption of alcoholic beverages during this country's experiment with prohibition. as long as there is such a lucrative market combined with laws against growing, manufacturing, selling and using, there will be a robust violent drug trade. fix it, or get used to it are the choices. shutting down one person or one operation will not even be noticed, as stated by el chapo. voids are quickly filled.
Isn't it ironic the left hates powerful rich white men yet loves ElChapo. Hollywood and its bosom buddy the American left decry gun violence yet they can't wait to glorify El Chapo's violent way of life. Clearly the left doesn't blame the gun here. The left wants to silence Donald Trump ("artists" in Vermont recently interviewed by the Burlington Free Press stated Trump should not have been allowed to even speak!!!) but salivates over El Chapo's story telling of murder and destruction. Best of all, the NYTimes, which prints nothing but ad hominem attacks on Trump, glorifies the American Left's hero El Chapo front and center on its web page today.
Guns, murder, addiction and stupidity all glorified by the NYTimes, Hollywood and the American left. Ironic? No, par for the course.
And you on the left still wonder why we don't trust you.
Guns, murder, addiction and stupidity all glorified by the NYTimes, Hollywood and the American left. Ironic? No, par for the course.
And you on the left still wonder why we don't trust you.
2
Cheers for Sean Penn and his gutsy interview with the arch criminal Guzman and what a scoop for Rolling Stone.
Despite all the the whining and hand ringing below this was a smart move and should be congratulated.
Despite all the the whining and hand ringing below this was a smart move and should be congratulated.
1
Hollywood at its best.
Spiccoli has gotten himself into a conundrum. He better hope that El Chapo doesn't start thinking that Penn was involved in his capture. If El Chapo gets the idea that Penn was working with the authorities Penn may find himself starring in a real life movie minus the stunt man and special effects. On the flip side, if the government's believe he aided and abetted a fugitive, other troubles may follow. Spiccoli better hope for the government coming after him.
1
Why would Sean Penn risk his future with such a stunt? Because the American people are not only interested in, but admire, those that defy authority (like El Chapo), and that also includes Sean Penn. We are living in an age where defiance against all odds is admired.
1
I only use legally prescribed addictive drugs so El Chapo's criminal world is not part of my world.
Sean Penn may have a fantasy of himself as both an humanitarian helping Haitians and also as an outlaw journalist like Hunter Thompson interviewing drug lords, but he is skirting some danger and a lifestyle that is somewhat self destructive.
Not to be overly analytical, but I can't help it, Sean, if you are reading this, you have no reason to feel bad about yourself because of the usual failures in life. There are a lot of people out here who care about you, so please consider that when you plan your next adventure.
Bonus chance!
Sean Penn may have a fantasy of himself as both an humanitarian helping Haitians and also as an outlaw journalist like Hunter Thompson interviewing drug lords, but he is skirting some danger and a lifestyle that is somewhat self destructive.
Not to be overly analytical, but I can't help it, Sean, if you are reading this, you have no reason to feel bad about yourself because of the usual failures in life. There are a lot of people out here who care about you, so please consider that when you plan your next adventure.
Bonus chance!
Putting aside, ethical and legal considerations that surely Sean Penn had to go through before he agreed to conduct an interview, one has to acknowledge that it is an opportunity to lift a curtain on El Chapo's mindset and personality, and potentially cartel inner workings. One point that SP made is that as consumers we are complicit to what our consumption creates and perhaps we should be responsible for the fact that this monster industry is thriving. Since no-one will know wether SP cooperated or provided information to relevant authorities, its best to reserve the judgement. However, the fact that two people were able to communicate and interview El Chapo and authorities struggled for months to find him & his people is in itself is astounding.
Trevor D. Moffitt
Trevor D. Moffitt
Who does Sean Penn think he is? Obviously, the lure of millions to be made for the movie, "El Chapo," outshines any sense of morality and elementary decency. Guzman is a ruthless dope dealer directly responsible for hundreds of murders and literally millions of shattered lives from Maine to Yucutan. Shameful. If Mexican or US authorities can charge Penn and his Rolling Stone comrades legally, let them get on with it.
1
So many commenters are concerned about whether or not Sean Penn should be considered a "journalist." It doesn't matter.
The journalist "shield law" is a custom rather than ensconced in law. In any case, shielding a source is far different from shielding a convicted criminal. The latter is unacceptable and unlawful, no matter what the status of the individual, other than possibly his attorney. Even there, there is doubt; I don't accept that it includes withholding information about the location of a convicted criminal.
Indeed, with the number of deaths attributed to him, it would not be a stretch to brand him a terrorist.
Sean Penn should be arrested and tried. Period.
The journalist "shield law" is a custom rather than ensconced in law. In any case, shielding a source is far different from shielding a convicted criminal. The latter is unacceptable and unlawful, no matter what the status of the individual, other than possibly his attorney. Even there, there is doubt; I don't accept that it includes withholding information about the location of a convicted criminal.
Indeed, with the number of deaths attributed to him, it would not be a stretch to brand him a terrorist.
Sean Penn should be arrested and tried. Period.
2
el Chapo said it all ... he has never been an addict and hasn't used in 20 years ... but all the users and addicts destroy thrir lives while making him rich ...
Is this the same drug cartel Obama armed via his Fast and Furious gun running scheme? (Which was ultimately intended to blame and slander legal U.S. gun stores.)
Thousands of inner city kids are murdered each year because Obama refuses to prosecute gun crimes, leaving the murderers and their guns free to murder again. Prosecutions of illegal gun crimes are down 30-40% under Obama.
Big Hollywood Democrat fundraisers tripped over themselves trying to buy film rights to El Chapo's life story in this story, and Uber-Leftist Sean Penn interviews the drug kingpin for Rolling Stone, in a hagiographic swooning over the man responsible for the murders of thousands of inner city American kids. (After kissing the ring of the communist mass murderers, the Castro brothers, who stole the private property of all their people and turned their once-idyllic island into a gulag.)
The Left in this country long ago buried any moral standing they might have once had, to embrace The Dark Side.
Thousands of inner city kids are murdered each year because Obama refuses to prosecute gun crimes, leaving the murderers and their guns free to murder again. Prosecutions of illegal gun crimes are down 30-40% under Obama.
Big Hollywood Democrat fundraisers tripped over themselves trying to buy film rights to El Chapo's life story in this story, and Uber-Leftist Sean Penn interviews the drug kingpin for Rolling Stone, in a hagiographic swooning over the man responsible for the murders of thousands of inner city American kids. (After kissing the ring of the communist mass murderers, the Castro brothers, who stole the private property of all their people and turned their once-idyllic island into a gulag.)
The Left in this country long ago buried any moral standing they might have once had, to embrace The Dark Side.
1
Shame on Penn.
So the American left salivates over Sean Penn and their anti-hero. Let's see how Sean Penn does in front of the families ill-affected by El Chapo. My guess is the glamour wears off quickly.
1
No wonder we are the murder capital of the world. A criminal who murdered scores of people is now being sized up by Hollywood for a movie. Where do we draw the line. If Mr. Guzman was and escaped convict in the US Will Mr. Penn Still interview him? I don't think so.
1
Well Sean, I think the national media has just painted a huge bulls-eye on your back since Mexican officials credit you with helping them make the arrest. Might want to hire a highly armed security details. You're going to need it.
1
It is easy to be critical of Sean Penn (or journalists that use their access to get interviews with Al Qaeda leaders), but I am convinced that understanding how Mexican drug lords see themselves, and how they are seen by many of their compatriots is key for us to begin devising a more rational drug policy. Yes, El Chapo has unleashed a lot of bloodshed in the world, and no one should overlook it, but ultimately, the product that El Chapo ships is consumed in the United States and he is definitely right in one respect, so long as the money is there, there are probably hundreds of people ready to step into his shoes in a heartbeat.
As has been observed no doubt in numerous places, the practice of journalism often entails meeting with, interviewing and reporting on unsavory, morally challenged (to say the least) characters involved in nefarious activities of all kinds, legal and illegal. What is questionable is giving the subject of the interview right of approval not just of a quote or two (as may sometimes happen) but of the entire piece in advance.
Who cares if Guzman was 'caught', he was living exactly where he was before and they've always known that, it's just spin and there's thousands more to take his place.
The whole 'war on drugs' is a failed fiasco, legalise it's distribution and regulate it. We're all adults and should have the freedom to decide what we choose to ingest.
The whole 'war on drugs' is a failed fiasco, legalise it's distribution and regulate it. We're all adults and should have the freedom to decide what we choose to ingest.
Way to go Sean. Thank you for legitimizing a cold blooded killer who has caused misery for hundreds of people. By the way Sean, for someone who seems to despise the US, you sure have done well. Lots of money, big house, fame, etc.
1
Charlie Rose was allowed to interview President Assad from Syria, also a serious killer of humanity. Germans are recently allowed to read Hitler's "Mein Kampf," a man guilty of killing some 7 million people in concentration camps. So why wouldn't Sean Penn not be allowed to interview Joaquín Guzman! In fact he may have helped in his arrest. A more serious issue is all these American drug addicts having made Guzman a very rich killer - will they be punished for being an integral part of serious crimes?
Now that some States in the USA are entering the business of distributing marihuana, who is next to be extradited to the FBI?
Might it be - the States' officials who approved these deals?
Mind you: This is written by a guy who has never ''inhaled'' even one puff, and can't wait for the lifting of all restrictions and penalties for ALL 'illegal' drugs.
Might it be - the States' officials who approved these deals?
Mind you: This is written by a guy who has never ''inhaled'' even one puff, and can't wait for the lifting of all restrictions and penalties for ALL 'illegal' drugs.
Dear morally-superior commenters: if you are so "outraged" by the statements of El Chapo Guzman, and find his drug business reprehensible then follow these steps:
1. Don't smoke weed
2. Don't snort coke or smoke crack
3. Don't smoke meth
4. Don't sniff or shoot dope
That will cover you on all fronts. If you are already doing all of the above, then that is all you can do. To pontificate on the evils of this man doesn't help you and it certainly doesn't help readers. As for Sean Penn, he's being Sean Penn what more would you expect?
1. Don't smoke weed
2. Don't snort coke or smoke crack
3. Don't smoke meth
4. Don't sniff or shoot dope
That will cover you on all fronts. If you are already doing all of the above, then that is all you can do. To pontificate on the evils of this man doesn't help you and it certainly doesn't help readers. As for Sean Penn, he's being Sean Penn what more would you expect?
2
Moral and ethical chuckleheads intersect with the personification of pure evil.
If anybody's wondering why the world seems to be getting uglier by the second, they shouldn't.
If anybody's wondering why the world seems to be getting uglier by the second, they shouldn't.
while a fascinating read, i am truly disgusted by the actions and not so secret motivations of sean penn in the service of what is clearly own narcissistic gain. i'm not a journalist, but my sense is he interviewed el chapo for his own narcissistic ends which is to play him in a film. i'd be concerned if i were mr. penn. el chapo doesn't seem to take well to those to betray him.
>
How does Penn find El Chapo before the Mexican or US gov't. Who is fooling who here?
The funny part is that the moronic horde believes the gov't and press narrative.
How does Penn find El Chapo before the Mexican or US gov't. Who is fooling who here?
The funny part is that the moronic horde believes the gov't and press narrative.
1
The gorilla in the room is that nobody speaks of legalization of drugs, especially Marijuana, now proven to be a healer and also a provider of a myriad of other beneficial products.
The whole furor here is just the darkness in human minds playing with itself. I look forward to a Dawn.
The whole furor here is just the darkness in human minds playing with itself. I look forward to a Dawn.
You just can't fix stupid, I hope he has good security now. As Mexican officials are claiming he was the key to capture.
1
The USA is the second largest exporter of tobacco in the World (after Brazil). That's nothing to boast about either.
1
I'd like to publicly thank Sean Penn for continuing to serve as America's conscience. From Saddam Hussein, to Hugo Chavez, to El Chapo no matter how many of our people or (far more numerous) of their own countrymen have been killed by their organizations and governments, it is surely somehow all America's fault and we made them do it.
2
When will these liberals quit solving crimes, writing every significant book, composing every decent piece of music, carrying out 100% of the country's scientific research and improving society?
I'm SICK of it!
--signed: Conservatives
I'm SICK of it!
--signed: Conservatives
1
Sean Penn is a war criminal, drug war, that is.
1
Fhew - Trump can rest easy now. At least until the next escape. El Chapos threats to kill Trump gave new meaning to Donald ... Duck!
People forget that many years ago the authorities had people engaged in monitoring all these gangs, holding their activity down, and then had to reassign them in order to monitor all the Islamic activity. That's when the gangs began to flourish.
Remember?
Remember?
The World has an obligation tp break the backbone of input networks of a country practicing foul play
1
Legal and ethical issues regarding Rolling Stone and Penn corresponding with a violent fugitive and criminal aside, I could see this whole story being turned into a movie. The activist Hollywood superstar, the sexy telenovela actress, the drug kingpin on the run but still fascinated by the idea of a movie being made about his life, the dodging of authorities via complex communications, etc.
The drug business is a microeconomic Möbius strip, ad infinitum. Mr. Guzmán was another good mother's wee babe once, still loved. Same story with consumers: Whoopie Goldberg, Jimmy Kimmel, Sir Paul McCartney, Willie Nelson, whoever and their children.
And it ain't about the watch, it's about the time.
And it ain't about the watch, it's about the time.
1
Was he auditioning?
Should not have Penn informed the authorities of El Chapo's location? Is there a crime in this that Penn, because of his celebrity, feels immune from prosecution?
3
Why? Why would Sean Penn interview him? We all know what he is, there are millions that grew up in poverty, they raise families, work hard and NEVER kill, torture, and spread harm. They are the ones that should be interviewed, not the psycotic murderers. Penn is a disgrace and should be charged as an accomplice, and for aiding and abetting.
2
First Dennis Rodman became our ambassador to North Korea, now Sean Pean helping to tell the story of a murdering, thieving drug-dealing criminal.
Tell me again why I'm supposed to pay any heed to what celebrities say about the world and its various issues.
Tell me again why I'm supposed to pay any heed to what celebrities say about the world and its various issues.
3
They will bide their time -- years, likely -- and they will retaliate.
Folks, be careful that you don’t fall off your high moral horse. Are there not infinitely more deserving candidates for your scorn?
"It was not immediately clear what the ethical and legal considerations of the article might be."
It's very clear that Mr. Penn is an unscrupulous gringo with no appreciation of how offensive it is to the victims of narcoterror for him to be swanning around with El Chapo as if he were one of Mr. Penn's Hollywood buddies.
It's very clear that Mr. Penn is an unscrupulous gringo with no appreciation of how offensive it is to the victims of narcoterror for him to be swanning around with El Chapo as if he were one of Mr. Penn's Hollywood buddies.
5
So, the hideous, immoral profiteering goes on. Drop this creep in a hole and forget about him. You too, Sean Penn.
3
They better extradite him fast, before he escapes again.
1
Sean, lay low for a long time.
1
Sean Penn grew up in a wealthy Hollywood family. He was given his first acting job by his father. A true man of the people. He really had to struggle.
1
There you have it America, the Liberal entertainment establishment is no better than Republicans who cater to Banksters. Woe is to America
"If he disappeared, he said, it would make no difference to the drug business."
No truer words have ever been spoken. All this business is a political charade for the television cameras. Nobody on either side of the border has any desire to stop the trade in illegal narcotics. That is especially true of law enforcement.
No truer words have ever been spoken. All this business is a political charade for the television cameras. Nobody on either side of the border has any desire to stop the trade in illegal narcotics. That is especially true of law enforcement.
1
This ranks right up there with Dennis Rodman's visits to Kim Jong Un. We've now given some additional folk lore status to one of the worlds biggest drug dealers. Way to go Sean!
1
Rolling Stone. Movie stars. Drug lord. Jungle hideout. Suggestions of assassinating an American candidate for President.
What a clown car.
What a clown car.
3
Sean Penn needs serious help. He was with this man and interviewed him without telling the authorities? Speechless isn't the word for this.
5
For some incomprehensible reason certain brilliant actors older than 40, an age when most adults are personally and socially mature, remain as immature as adolescents. Mr. Penn, one of the most gifted actors of his generation, is one of them. He admires and supports the causes of two men who practically destroyed the economies and nearly all freedoms in two countries: Cuba and Venezuela. Now he does this. Will he ever grow up?
2
I can't name a recent Sean Penn movie. I can, however, recall a recent N.Y. Times article revealing how he was ghosted by Charlize Theron ( a term for breaking up by ignoring a person's missives.)
Attaching himself to her brought attention to his flagging career. I guess being out of the spotlight after the break-up created a need for attention again.
I am a teacher. I teach very young children. They need attention. Some don't care whether it's good or bad attention. They get my "good" attention when they behave and do well and I ignore them when they misbehave. This causes all the other children to behave well to garner good attention.
Sean Penn reminds me of those naughty little children who will do anything to garner any form of attention. In this case an interview with the world's most wanted criminal. He calls it an interview. I call it aiding and abetting.
The whole scenario is beyond comprehension. But there he is on the news and front pages everywhere. Mission accomplished.
Attaching himself to her brought attention to his flagging career. I guess being out of the spotlight after the break-up created a need for attention again.
I am a teacher. I teach very young children. They need attention. Some don't care whether it's good or bad attention. They get my "good" attention when they behave and do well and I ignore them when they misbehave. This causes all the other children to behave well to garner good attention.
Sean Penn reminds me of those naughty little children who will do anything to garner any form of attention. In this case an interview with the world's most wanted criminal. He calls it an interview. I call it aiding and abetting.
The whole scenario is beyond comprehension. But there he is on the news and front pages everywhere. Mission accomplished.
6
Now they can make a film starring Sean Penn as himself, based upon the true life story of Sean Penn interviewing the drug kingpin El Chapo. Sean Penn.
2
Hey Look at Me!! Actors and other forms of celebrity and near-celebrity are terrified of not being noticed and otherwise out of view.
They fear the absence or eyes not being present, except those of the paparazzi....This "secret" was not meant to remain such.
They fear the absence or eyes not being present, except those of the paparazzi....This "secret" was not meant to remain such.
2
Perhaps Mr. Penn could, and should, share a cell with Senior El Chapo and continue to conduct interviews. The lionizing of a drug lord is beyond the pale.
4
Here's a question. If the wealthiest drug lord in history wants to make a movie and meet with a top current actor from Hollywood, why Sean Penn? Was he impressed with his role in Milk? I guess he went with the one egomaniac that actually wanted to do this. I am sure the relative risks to Sean's life meeting with El Chapo will continue to be inflated.
Didn't he go over to Iraq or Afghanistan for his own personal research/press coverage?
Didn't he go over to Iraq or Afghanistan for his own personal research/press coverage?
1
Sean Penn showed himself to be a self serving narcissist. Was this just an interview for Rolling Stone or a step toward putting together a production deal? At the very least Penn shows a lack of respect for the lives and societies Guzman destroys. At worst Penn shares the same values as Guzman.
4
Supply & demand abhors a vacuum.
People want blow; Shorty's got blow.
People want movies about bad guys; Sean's got a movie about a bad guy.
People want blow; Shorty's got blow.
People want movies about bad guys; Sean's got a movie about a bad guy.
2
Few of the naysayers here have actually clicked on the RS website and read what is there. They simply would not be able to say most of what they are saying.
Some say Sean Penn ought not to have met this guy, nor had anything to do with such a mass murdering drug dealer. I understand their revulsion.
However, I think this falls within the journalistic exception we make in many cases. This guy leads a large group whose power threatens the Mexican government itself. He is a public figure, as well as a mass murderer.
In the same way, we'd allow for a journalist to interview Stalin or Saddam or North Korea's dictator.
Some have also said that Sean Penn ought to have turned this guy in, betrayed him. Some even say he did, as in the movie Argo.
What happens to people who trick and betray major drug lords in major ways? Sean Penn is too public to hope to hide or protect. He had better make it clear he did not do that, or he's a dead man. I don't say it should be, I say it would be and anyone honest with himself knows it would be.
However, I think this falls within the journalistic exception we make in many cases. This guy leads a large group whose power threatens the Mexican government itself. He is a public figure, as well as a mass murderer.
In the same way, we'd allow for a journalist to interview Stalin or Saddam or North Korea's dictator.
Some have also said that Sean Penn ought to have turned this guy in, betrayed him. Some even say he did, as in the movie Argo.
What happens to people who trick and betray major drug lords in major ways? Sean Penn is too public to hope to hide or protect. He had better make it clear he did not do that, or he's a dead man. I don't say it should be, I say it would be and anyone honest with himself knows it would be.
Journalistic privilege should be reserved for bona fide journalists and not besmirched and abused by others to excuse themselves. It is a very sad day for journalism and for free people all over the world when people understand they can do whatever they want and just call themselves journalists to avoid legal action. If there is a signed contract between Penn and Rolling Stone hiring him to do this interview *prior* to him doing it, that is at least some excuse. I haven't seen that anywhere.And why wasn't the interview even published until after El Chapo was captured since it took place in October?
Penn protecting his relationship -- looking to star in the film. Anyone can do anything and tape a question and answer segment and later call it "journalism" rather than consorting with the enemy. We need to protect real journalists not applaud people who abuse it's privilege. Sean Penn is not a hero in this story. If it were Deborah Roberts or some other legitimate journalist it might be different. He's a self-serving egomaniac just like El Chapo. Both looking to make a movie for heaven's sake which they both seem to be freely admitting.
Penn protecting his relationship -- looking to star in the film. Anyone can do anything and tape a question and answer segment and later call it "journalism" rather than consorting with the enemy. We need to protect real journalists not applaud people who abuse it's privilege. Sean Penn is not a hero in this story. If it were Deborah Roberts or some other legitimate journalist it might be different. He's a self-serving egomaniac just like El Chapo. Both looking to make a movie for heaven's sake which they both seem to be freely admitting.
1
A movie attempting to tell a true story is journalism, and powerful journalism.
Talk about being on a different planet. Rules evidently don't apply to Sean Penn in his world. Add him to my list of "actors"I won't watch.
1
Why should Mexico care about what El Chapo does here when we flood Mexico with guns?
It seems that El Chapo's undoing was his ego. He bought into the culture of reality TV in which people believe their story is of interest to everyone else.
The photo accomoanying this article tells me all I need to know about Sean Penn.
3
Has Jane Fonda been notfied?
3
If Sean Penn was part of the strategy--even inadvertently--to find El Chapo, will he now be targeted by the Sinaloa cartel?
1
The one thing that seems absolutely certain to me after reading the comments is that many commenters really hate Sean Penn.
2
Not as a person or an actor, rather only for what he did as a private person whose business means and connections allowed him into places and situations unavailable to most. Unfortunately having such means and connections can backfire sometimes on him as an individual, as your reading of others' comments attests. He'll no doubt turn this into some kind of commercial success - he along with his studio friends - and no doubt plenty will go pay to see it all on the big screen. That's show biz, I guess?
I got that too. I really like him and don't see the supposed bad thing he did by interviewing El Chapo at all. I found the interview fascinating and would have been scared to death to do what Mr. Penn did. It was interesting that Chapo said he was a drug dealer because it was the only way to make money. It seems we have the problem here in the USA that only a very few people are making money, the rest of us are barely making it.
Meet Sean Penn... snitch extraordinaire. Nice work Sean, working on this dude's vanity to locate him for the feds. It took a real genius to think of that! With all Sean's friends in Venezuela, Cuba and now Mexico, I'm sure he can find a good place to hide. Oh wait a minute, those are probably the very people that will be looking for him. Hey Sean, you should have stuck to acting.
Sometimes I wonder if Mr. Penn is shallow or maybe has no sense of morality. I remember his visit to Hugo Chavez, the totalitarian head of Venezuela’s government. The man that made Venezuela the most dangerous country in the region and fathered the worst corruption in the hemisphere. Venezuela is a narco-state and Diosdado Cabello leads the Cartel de las Flores.
More of the same line. El Chapo is responsible for so much terror, death and truncated lives. For Mr. Penn, who seems to be a groupie of these types of monsters, is OK to be an accomplice of El Chapo. What else is OK for Mr. Penn? Same goes to Kate del Castillo. Maybe she thinks she is “La Reina del Sur”? There is too much impunity. What will be next? A fun trip to North Korea? An interview with Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi if he was alive? Get a time machine for a quick video with Idi Amin?
More of the same line. El Chapo is responsible for so much terror, death and truncated lives. For Mr. Penn, who seems to be a groupie of these types of monsters, is OK to be an accomplice of El Chapo. What else is OK for Mr. Penn? Same goes to Kate del Castillo. Maybe she thinks she is “La Reina del Sur”? There is too much impunity. What will be next? A fun trip to North Korea? An interview with Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi if he was alive? Get a time machine for a quick video with Idi Amin?
7
Morality? What morality? Saudi Arabia, one of most repressive countries in the World, that chops the heads of its dissidents and flogs people for blog, is a friend of the US. How moral is that?
I agree and it may also stem from a disconnect from reality that maybe many people in show biz suffer from because after a while that can't keep their characters separate from them as individuals. A lot of Mr. Penn's characters reside on that dark side, so maybe to him he just thought he was going down there the hang with a fellow "bro". Likewise for El Chapo and the new mystique he has of himself after so much time in the lime-light. Celebrity-hood is a very bi-polar condition.
1
looks like SP's been wallowing in Chapo's party favors for way too long. nothing egocentric about the story or escapade. just a cool, tough celebrity thing to do. like going to a gala for Hitler.
3
In the US Sean Penn would be charged with obstruction of justice, (aiding and abetting a known felon and prison escapee, as well as interference with an ongoing investigation).
That could never happen in Mexico, because there is nothing even remotely resembling "justice". So, there is nothing to obstruct.
That could never happen in Mexico, because there is nothing even remotely resembling "justice". So, there is nothing to obstruct.
6
No he wouldn't. He was doing what ANY journalist would and do do.
Sean Penn and an actress can get access to El Chap when no one else can find him. Hmm.
We live in interesting times.
We live in interesting times.
14
What is it with American oddball celebrities and crazy, nasty foreign power trippers? Rodman and Kim Jung UN, Penn and El Chapo? I see a pattern here. Or is it a global village thing with the outliers hanging together?
9
Not sure two disparate examples constitute a trend.
Sean Penn has a well established and deserved reputation for humanitarian activities, especially in New Orleans and the long aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. While interviewing people who have ordered mass murder is always difficult and, in some cases, might itself be seen as an immoral act, Penn deserves some consideration and benefit of the doubt as to the underlying motives of this interview. In the end, we are all better informed for it having been conducted.
Even horrible people like Guzman wind up being something of "folk heroes" in the sense that they have so much impact on our times. The amassing of great wealth and fleets of planes and boats pushes them into a kind of counter-government entity, which, however harmful, is still an impressive accomplishment in the face of constant efforts at capture. People such as Guzman are certainly lousy human beings in the total scope of things, but they are powerful nonetheless. (I am also struck by how many legal activities carried out by responsible business people are ultimately destructive of human values.)
Even horrible people like Guzman wind up being something of "folk heroes" in the sense that they have so much impact on our times. The amassing of great wealth and fleets of planes and boats pushes them into a kind of counter-government entity, which, however harmful, is still an impressive accomplishment in the face of constant efforts at capture. People such as Guzman are certainly lousy human beings in the total scope of things, but they are powerful nonetheless. (I am also struck by how many legal activities carried out by responsible business people are ultimately destructive of human values.)
1
Not sure why so many are beating up Rolling Stone magazine over this. Please name a news agency anywhere would refuse the opportunity to interview this guy. As for the safety of Mr Penn, these interviews were done months in advance of the arrest, I doubt if he had much to do with his inevitable recapture.
6
Frankly Penn interviewing Guzman is far more interesting that ubiquitous coverage of Trump and the other demagoguea the media has become addicted to. Considering the drug lord is also the bread and butter of American law enforcement he is also more directly relevant.
16
Sean, it's all been downhill since your first movies. Welcome to the bottom. You aren't a journalist. You don't even play one on TV.
Guzman is a serial murdered and career criminal. His own country can't keep him in prison, which is why they are about to outsource the job to us. Thanks a lot for your "contribution" to this effort, such as it was. You've made a food of yourself. And not for the first time, either.
Guzman is a serial murdered and career criminal. His own country can't keep him in prison, which is why they are about to outsource the job to us. Thanks a lot for your "contribution" to this effort, such as it was. You've made a food of yourself. And not for the first time, either.
16
Jim, you thank Mr. Penn, sarcastically, for his "contribution" to "this effort" -- meaning, of course, that he has made none. Well, why should he? Mr. Guzman is certainly a criminal in that he has violated any number of laws -- both national and international -- but, if our objection to his activities is a moral one, based on the damage he has done to other human beings, then we should, for the sake of consistency, condemn all those many "captains of industry" and amoral speculators whose activities have also destroyed millions of lives. My intuition is that you would not be so quick to do that.
By the by, Mr. Penn may have made a " fool of himself" in YOUR eyes, he has NOT done so in mine.
By the by, Mr. Penn may have made a " fool of himself" in YOUR eyes, he has NOT done so in mine.
There are probably laws which Mr. Penn broke, but contra most in this forum I don't think he did anything morally wrong. An interview with a drug kingpin is informative. It does not make Mr. Penn a drug dealer just as an interview with a terrorist would not make him a terrorist. I applaud Mr. Penn for his bravery - yes bravery - because based on the comments I have read, he is about to have one difficult time.
8
How long is this article going to command top of the page? I was sick of it after the first time I saw it. Move it along, please.
13
It would be better if YOU were to "move it along" and leave the rest of us to read what we please. Did anyone force you to read this piece or leave a comment?
How is this the top story on the Sunday times website? Yes, it's crazy. Why Sean Penn/Rolling Stone magazine would do this, and why El Chapo would do it. So it's jaw-dropping But top story with everything else that's going on?
10
Money and power. These are the drugs driving El Chapo, the drugs driving ISIS, the drugs driving most of US foreign policy, the drugs driving the business class, and the drugs driving a great deal of what goes on in the world at nearly every level. So it's a pretty big story.
Carolyn, thank you. You are spot on, especially since right now in one of America's cities (Flint, Michigan) we have poisoned our children with lead in the drinking water by corroding all the pipes with river water--and the state of Michigan has declared a state of emergency. People there still don't have any emergency water to drink. Shouldn't that be "above the fold" rather than an article glorifying a murderous drug lord and his Hollywood entourage? The headline is near the bottom: Flint Wants Safe Water, and Someone to Answer for Crisis.
1
Relax Carolyn, "everything else that's going on" is still going to be there 15 minutes from now when we're done reading this piece and some of the less than thoughtful comments following it.
It would be rich indeed, if all of Sean Penn's efforts to avoid being tracked, multiple burner phones, etc. were for naught and his role as heroic "journalist" led to the capture one of the world's most notorious narco-terrorists. For some reason beyond comprehension, Hollywood glamorizes the dark side of drugs, as if real people's lives weren't destroyed by them everyday.
15
Did you notice how Chapo was picked up on Friday, just hours before RS published the piece? For all we know Sean and Kate led the cops right to him, wittingly or not.
There is a simple way to destroy the entire sordid illegal drug business: legalize the drugs. And regulate them, tax them, and use the money for treatment of addicts. The utter absurdity of the present regime is demonstrated by the fact that the sign of a "successful" drug bust is --- the street price of the stuff goes up!
Our free market idolaters would be ecstatic over such a move --- destroy the high priced illicit market by making it licit,
There is a reason however that such an obvious solution does not occur, and it is not a "moral" one. There is so much dirty money sloshing around the system that corruption on an epic scale is inevitable. How many police departments get funds from unconstitutional "forfeiture"? How many politicians and prison guards and others are getting payoffs under the table? How many for-profit prison companies are cashing in by warehousing low-level users and dealers?
As the Romans say, "The thing speaks for itself".
And as a final riddle: What is missing from the lives of so many that a drugged stupor or an artificial high is worth the risk of incarceration or worse?
Our free market idolaters would be ecstatic over such a move --- destroy the high priced illicit market by making it licit,
There is a reason however that such an obvious solution does not occur, and it is not a "moral" one. There is so much dirty money sloshing around the system that corruption on an epic scale is inevitable. How many police departments get funds from unconstitutional "forfeiture"? How many politicians and prison guards and others are getting payoffs under the table? How many for-profit prison companies are cashing in by warehousing low-level users and dealers?
As the Romans say, "The thing speaks for itself".
And as a final riddle: What is missing from the lives of so many that a drugged stupor or an artificial high is worth the risk of incarceration or worse?
22
I agree with this assessment. Make drugs legal and pay attention to the social and economic problems that drive people toward addiction. We would be able to afford help for troubled families. We could put money into education. Sadly, Americans defend entrepreneurs and limit social healers.
The "war on drugs" seems to have been fueled in part by Puritan and capitalist oriented ideas that people must be working and must be productive. If people op-out of the economy, they aren't turning over dollars, and thus wealth, for the rulers of enterprises, except illegal ones. For psychological and emotional reasons, a large cohort of people decide that they don't want to be productive or that they can't be. While we certainly don't want to encourage people to live largely useless lives, we are still powerless to prevent it.
Drugs destroy the work ethic that is a fundamental part of a capitalist economy. However, we are approaching a time, if we are not there at this moment, where there won't be enough work and pay for all. What should we do? One potential solution would be to allow people, within limits, to drug themselves as they please at an affordable cost, reducing crime and violence in the process. The issue is certainly worthy of additional study. There are no easy answers.
Drugs destroy the work ethic that is a fundamental part of a capitalist economy. However, we are approaching a time, if we are not there at this moment, where there won't be enough work and pay for all. What should we do? One potential solution would be to allow people, within limits, to drug themselves as they please at an affordable cost, reducing crime and violence in the process. The issue is certainly worthy of additional study. There are no easy answers.
1
In Guzman's world you're either on the take or have a shortened life expectancy.
4
Does Rolling Stone understand its place within journalism anymore? It lost a great deal of credibility since publishing a fallacious campus rape story. Now this? Seems as if the publication is grabbing at straws to maintain a place within the world of journalism.
13
I think the same can be said of Sean Penn. As a down-and-out movie star, this seems more like a publicity stunt or last stab at relevance rather than a legitimate journalistic endeavor. While the ethics of anti-drug laws are debatable, what is cut and dry is the fact that this man (El Chapo) is a violent criminal. He deserves the fate Penn is trying so hard to avoid; to be forgotten and nothing more.
It also published an expose describing how George W Bush stole not only the 2000 election in Florida, but the 2004 election in Ohio... Where was the rest of the MSM on that one?
And therein lies a great narrative. Can't wait for the movie and I am hopeful that Penn and El Chapo will costar.
3
If you're kidding, nice sarcasm.
If you're serious, your habits of consumption are not helpful. Please reconsider them.
If you're serious, your habits of consumption are not helpful. Please reconsider them.
We have a system so corrupt or brilliant, this is a puzzling story. I would be more worried whose the insider inside the DEA not Sean Pean. The Wars on drugs is a complete failure. Guzmán, Almost like Arthur Guinness & Joe Kennedy, started off as thugs/racketeers during Prohibition, Guzmán knows its over - redemption song?
¿Fast Times at Ridgemont High or the Making of a Murder? Whoa.
¿Fast Times at Ridgemont High or the Making of a Murder? Whoa.
2
I am astounded by the negative comments regarding Sean Penn doing an interview with El Chapo. Perhaps it was the truth in the message they don't like, that for many people there is no other way to make money than from drugs. Perhaps this is the situation we should be looking at rather than all the snarky remarks about how horrible Mr. Pean was for even doing the interview. BTW journalist interview criminals ALL the time. Did anyone watch the Frontline episode in which a journalist lived with ISIS for a while?
27
I applaud his interview. The raw reckless arrogance I mean courage it took to put you life and the life of your crew on the line. Maybe he could do a series
kinda like The Godfather. The season ender would be his kidnapping, along with his crew and the holding of them for ransom. Then the last scene would be Shawn and his crew tied up, looking at the camera and saying "Don't make my mistake, don't lead the authorities to El Chapo!" "Otherwise this can happen to you!" The Hit man pulls on the starter rope and the chain saw springs to life as the scene fades to black. Then "Next season on "The Drug Lord....."
kinda like The Godfather. The season ender would be his kidnapping, along with his crew and the holding of them for ransom. Then the last scene would be Shawn and his crew tied up, looking at the camera and saying "Don't make my mistake, don't lead the authorities to El Chapo!" "Otherwise this can happen to you!" The Hit man pulls on the starter rope and the chain saw springs to life as the scene fades to black. Then "Next season on "The Drug Lord....."
I was negative. I just read Sean's own piece on it on RealClear. And now I'm even more negative. He's not a journalist. He glorified himself and a thug who'd kill Sean or any of the people praising Sean here just because they got in the way of his profit. Sean seems enamored like people who glorified Hitler before the war or other dictators (like Chavez) or gangsters. And he finds drug users who never harmed anyone except themselves morally equivalent with murderers and pushers. Not surprisingly, he seems to extend that equivalency to all Americans. He lets El Chapo portray himself as a normal and honorable man. He brags that El Chapo didn't ask him for any corrections. Why would he? It was a puff piece. Yes, I'm negative about him.
@terri,
Your comment that turning to selling drugs and the brutal nature of the way cartels do business should be either understood or condoned because its the only way for some people make a living is a sad commentary on our society and its lack of values. In effect your saying "it's not my fault, I'm just trying to survive." or "my profit at the expense of other peoples downfall is all that matters!" Self serving, self absorbed and narcissistic seems to rule the world!
Your comment that turning to selling drugs and the brutal nature of the way cartels do business should be either understood or condoned because its the only way for some people make a living is a sad commentary on our society and its lack of values. In effect your saying "it's not my fault, I'm just trying to survive." or "my profit at the expense of other peoples downfall is all that matters!" Self serving, self absorbed and narcissistic seems to rule the world!
The Donald and El Chapo, perfect together. El Chapo will back in the Untied States just in time for the Republican convention to accept their nomination for Vice President. Fox News can do a satellite hook up with El Chapo from the federal super max prison is Florence, Colorado.
9
An ultra leftist Hollywood star goes down to meet with El Chapo and you have to bring Trump into it?? Really!! Wasn't it Obama responsible for fast and furious. More likely Hillary will be trying to get a donation to the Clinton Foundation from El Chapo.
Penn should be in jail for abetting an escaped criminal.
20
Please look up the definition of "abet."
1
In what way was Penn encouraging or assisting El Chapo to commit a crime? See the definition of abet that I have pasted below. Have we really come to such a fascist point in this country that journalists cannot speak with criminals or those considered enemies of the state? It actually appears as if El Chapo put himself at risk to speak to Penn rather than Penn assisting in his evasion of the authorities. Hardly seems illegal (at least from my understanding of US law. Not sure what Mexian laws are on this matter).
abet-- google definition: encourage or assist someone to do something wrong, in particular, to commit a crime or other offense.
abet-- google definition: encourage or assist someone to do something wrong, in particular, to commit a crime or other offense.
1
But why? He wasn't abetting, he was interviewing.
Would Rivera, Walters, Amanpour, ,Miller, Todenhöfer , Woodward, Bernstein, Wells, Zaidan, Rather, Pearl et al "deserve" being jailed for interviewing (or trying to ) some of the despicable people they did?
It's a double standard to condemn Penn because of one's negative feelings about him as an actor, bad husband, or for his political beliefs.
Isn't it more worrying that a couple of showbiz folks could track the guy down when "the authorities" could not, or worse, would not?
Besides, we don't know whether Penn worked with authorities to help them get their man.
Would Rivera, Walters, Amanpour, ,Miller, Todenhöfer , Woodward, Bernstein, Wells, Zaidan, Rather, Pearl et al "deserve" being jailed for interviewing (or trying to ) some of the despicable people they did?
It's a double standard to condemn Penn because of one's negative feelings about him as an actor, bad husband, or for his political beliefs.
Isn't it more worrying that a couple of showbiz folks could track the guy down when "the authorities" could not, or worse, would not?
Besides, we don't know whether Penn worked with authorities to help them get their man.
Alas for not just the slow-motion collapse of journalism in America, but also the public's understanding of what journalism is and does.
So far as I can tell, and despite a few atypical but not unheard-of ground rules (i.e. providing copy to an interview subject for review before publication), what Sean Penn was doing was simply journalism.
Interviewing a subject, regardless of his or her deeds or reputation, is the best way to inform the world. It in no way implies approval. And if we were to adhere to the indignant moralizing of so many commenters below, the world would never hear from dictators or crime bosses or murderers.
Is that what the critics here are arguing? That the public should never be allowed to hear from dangerous or despicable people through the words of a journalist who is (at least) trying to maintain some sense of balance and keep his or her feelings out of it?
We increasingly live in a black-and-white, comic-book world in America, where even presidents babble about "bad guys" as they hide the results of their war mongering, i.e. flag-draped coffins, from a public that evidently prefers to be duped into simplistic, Manichean beliefs even as it mindlessly declares that millions of people in a particular calling, the military, are all, bar none, "heroes."
Time to grow up, folks.
So far as I can tell, and despite a few atypical but not unheard-of ground rules (i.e. providing copy to an interview subject for review before publication), what Sean Penn was doing was simply journalism.
Interviewing a subject, regardless of his or her deeds or reputation, is the best way to inform the world. It in no way implies approval. And if we were to adhere to the indignant moralizing of so many commenters below, the world would never hear from dictators or crime bosses or murderers.
Is that what the critics here are arguing? That the public should never be allowed to hear from dangerous or despicable people through the words of a journalist who is (at least) trying to maintain some sense of balance and keep his or her feelings out of it?
We increasingly live in a black-and-white, comic-book world in America, where even presidents babble about "bad guys" as they hide the results of their war mongering, i.e. flag-draped coffins, from a public that evidently prefers to be duped into simplistic, Manichean beliefs even as it mindlessly declares that millions of people in a particular calling, the military, are all, bar none, "heroes."
Time to grow up, folks.
30
You miss the point. The point here is to generate as much fake outrage as possible about something you know little about. Your reasoned comment has no place in a comment section.
Penn is no journalist. No editor in his right mind would have published this unedited tripe unless it was submitted by a movie star who quite obviously required that it be printed without substantive changes.
Kate and Penn should be in jail. There is nothing romanic about this murderer
11
For what? What law did he break? Not something that's in your head that you would like to think is true but an actual law he broke.
Confirms one thing I believe, many movie stars, celebrities think they are the characters they play. Movie star who thinks he's a secret agent, rappers who think they're drug king pin gangsters. And that's offensive. They're actors, nothing more. And so in this case, one big question. How did Penn get to Guzman when authorities wouldn't, and why didn't they tail Penn and capture Guzman after the first meeting? And did Penn inform the authorities immediately of his connection? I've admired Penn's humanitarian work and many of his liberal views, but in this case, I'd say if he kept this info secret, prosecute him to the fullest.
5
Of all the people in the world I would like to know more about, El Chapo is at the bottom of the list. No thanks, Mr. Penn.
10
Americans are in LOVE with criminals!
Look at how crazy we went for the book by Mario Puzo..”The Godfather” then the three part “Godfather” movies!
“The Sopranos!” Court TV (now TruTv). A ten part Netflix series on proving the “innocence” of Steve Avery..then over 130,000 folks on social media wanting POTUS to pardon him!! We can’t even separate reality from a television series!
Boston mob boss Whitey Bulger was front page news, the trial was everywhere, then made into a movie starring Johnny Depp.
In America if it bleeds it leads. Americans are obsessed with billionaires..even those who have killed hundreds of people. Americans love money no matter how it was made. PowerBall is back up to $1.3 billion as no one won last night. People skipped work to stand in lines to buy lottery tickets.
We are enamored with criminals and money. American “exceptionalism.”
Look at how crazy we went for the book by Mario Puzo..”The Godfather” then the three part “Godfather” movies!
“The Sopranos!” Court TV (now TruTv). A ten part Netflix series on proving the “innocence” of Steve Avery..then over 130,000 folks on social media wanting POTUS to pardon him!! We can’t even separate reality from a television series!
Boston mob boss Whitey Bulger was front page news, the trial was everywhere, then made into a movie starring Johnny Depp.
In America if it bleeds it leads. Americans are obsessed with billionaires..even those who have killed hundreds of people. Americans love money no matter how it was made. PowerBall is back up to $1.3 billion as no one won last night. People skipped work to stand in lines to buy lottery tickets.
We are enamored with criminals and money. American “exceptionalism.”
1
If Penn weren't a celebrity and Rolling Stone not a notable publication, he and they would (and should) be investigated for obstruction or interfering with an investigation, aiding and abetting a criminal, whatever applies here. This is appalling. The police and militia who risked their lives in this manhunt should be screaming for answers. By the way, the photo of these two shaking hands spits in the face of international law enforcement. Shame on Sean Penn and Rolling Stone.
24
If you'd actually read the RS article, the handshake was staged and posed as is for a reason: as proof for this editors that the face to face actually took place.
I see. Let's reward the people who let Chapo escape and failed to locate him and punish the guy who helped bring him in.
Anti-press, anti-democracy, conservative logic at its best.
Anti-press, anti-democracy, conservative logic at its best.
This is the Times top digital story for Sunday, Jan 10, 2016? Really? This is show biz stuff, suitable for the Post, which is also covering it....
8
Sean Penn is no journalist, and his "interview" with El Chapo nothing more than a soft-balled puff piece in which no difficult questions were asked and no follow-up questions ensued. In reading Penn's RS exposition of his interview I was struck by Penn's colossal ego and hubris in thinking that he was actually going to get a "story." I could have sat at home in my house and come up with as much insight if I'd used a Eight Ball fortune telling toy. Penn is a distinguished actor and director playing a very dangerous game with a very dangerous man. What was he thinking? The fact that El Chapo had the right to review the article prior to publication is the icing on the cake. Shame on you Mr. Penn.
15
And, Robert Blake will play me, El Chapo, or else.
3
Honestly, what is the point of this interview? If it's a comment about the failure of the War on Drugs, why isn't that explicit? It's hard to imagine El Chao as a Robin Hood figure. Maybe it's a Bonnie and Clyde or Whitey Bulger kind of fascination; it must be nice to have Rolling Stone back up one's particular mania. I guess if this is how things work; Rolling Stone, I am very interested in the Knights Hospitaller, please arrange a fact-finding mission to Rhodes and Malta for me.
5
If this is true, Penn is a traitor to the United States and should be treated as one. In my opinion, he violated his civic duty.
22
Luckily, your opinion is meaningless in a court of law.
What's the difference between Penn interviewing Chapo and Charlie Rose interviewing someone like Assad?
How is he a traitor to the United States? I don't agree with what Penn did, but making an accusation of treason against anyone is a serious matter which should not be done lightly.
"El Chapo" supplies more heroin, methamphetamine, cocaine and marijuana than anybody else in the world. Sean Penn and his Hollywood friends consume more heroin, methamphetamine, cocaine and marijuana than anybody else in the world. Why is anyone surprised that they finally met?
30
That's pretty funny...and insightful. Celebrity culture perpetuates the notion of self-indulgence, of which drugs are a big part. Penn has the perfect excuse: "I'm just and actor". Or maybe: "I'm a journalist"? More appropriately: "I'm an actor that plays a journalist".
So where are the indictments for aiding and abetting a criminal? Not only for Penn but the editorial staff of Rolling Stone too.
15
Sean Penn and RS didn't aid and abet anyone. Please do some research then comment.
Sean Penn and all the people involved should be brought up on charges in Mexico for knowingly being in contact with a fugitive. Don't tell be garbage about "artistic expression". If I was in contact with El Chapo the feds would have knocked down my door. This is utter hypocrisy.
20
El Chapo's drug empire destablizes many parts of America: the inner cities, to which few show any concern re: drug addition, and now the leafy, affluent suburbs, which means that heroin addition is now a serious issue. Why Sean Penn feels compelled to besmirch his name and reputation by giving aid and comfort to a criminal is beyond any explanation that I can imagine. I'm quite disappointed, as I have admired Mr. Penn's work for many years. El Chapo, being a drug king, is also complicit in countless murders, perhaps into the hundreds or thousands. This is a man to be admired?
8
Cudo's to Mr. Pean Ms. del Castillo! That was some real bravery to get this interview. It's fascinating!
19
/s *Almost* as fascinating as El Chapo's destruction and lives destroyed!!! How cool!!! /s
Cudo's what? And I hope you plan to ask Cudo first.
One would have thought that Rolling Stone would have been duly chastised by their very public missteps in the embarrassing University of Virginia rape fiasco, but apparently not. No longer do we have to wonder if Rolling Stone's journalistic ethics are questionable; they are absent. This is sickening. It's time to fold the tent.
18
End of the day: Americans buy the stuff and Mexicans, Colombians, Peruvians and Bolivians produce it and all of their middle-men in Central America and the Caribbean ensure delivery in a seamless supply chain of extraordinary efficiency and profitability. The GOP wants "free-market" and "trickle down benefits" of unfettered, unregulated business, well, the drug trade is the purest example of both. Rather than spend billions on interdiction, why doesn't the US Government just admit that until we understand and deal with the problem at home, there is zero incentive for the impoverished across our southern border to do anything but exploit our internal addictions. Mexican authorities may be corrupt, but our entire policy and enforcement strategies are even more so since we know what we should do and don't.
22
I don't understand. It's not all black and white here. Just like the rest of us, he was just a man trying to make a living. Trying to get by. Perhaps, in some ways, the prevalence of drug abuse has made his life comfortable. He fed and profited from our lack of judiciousness and later on, our physiological dependence on the drug. And now he has a billion dollars to his name, and he continues to profit from our mistakes and foolish decisions. But who's to blame ? The drug lords or those of us who choose to dig ourselves a grave ? Addiction surrounds us . It's everywhere, hiding in the most innocuous of things. Anything has the power to be addictive. Some more than others because of the biological rewards system they activate and the hormone releases they stimulate. Sugar, for example, is just as addictive as cocaine. Even facebook can be addictive. But, of course, I understand fighting a drug addiction is not the same as fighting an addiction to surfing the internet. For one, the withdrawal that follows the process of trying to get clean is excruciating. ALMOST, not worth the trouble. Yet, even if we fall into the addiction trap, there's still a way out. AA meetings, checking oneself into a facility to help one deal with the withdrawal, etc. The choice is ours. We can't get rid of every trigger. The challenge is staring at it, and having the strength to say no. To stay clean. It's not easy , but it's possible. Time to stop blaming those dangling poisonous carrots.
7
You miss an important point. If I supply your alcoholic brother with alcohol, openly or clandestinely, I am abetting his problem and delinquency by providing the stuff. In the case of drugs, well, they're ILLEGAL. Let's not hold our breath waiting for another celebrity to track down El Chapo's contemporaries who made an honest living. His sob story diverts attention from the fact that others in his situation as a child made other choices - less financially gainful choices, but they haven't spent a good part of their lives running from the law. Or helping others to remain dependent on drugs.
The Republican presidential candidates have been uncharacteristically silent about El Chapo.
They are obviously torn. On the one hand he's a very successful CEO billionaire who avoids taxes and sacrifices his workers as necessary, a true capitalist hero. On the other he's the epitome of Trump's description of the drug dealing Mexican rapist (true, we don't know if El Chapo is a rapist but it's not a bad assumption and it fits Trump's stereotype).
So where does the Republican base stand on El Chapo? Is there no way to blame Obama for either his success or his arrest? Where are these guys on a front page news story of such titillating significance? I'm truly disappointed.
They are obviously torn. On the one hand he's a very successful CEO billionaire who avoids taxes and sacrifices his workers as necessary, a true capitalist hero. On the other he's the epitome of Trump's description of the drug dealing Mexican rapist (true, we don't know if El Chapo is a rapist but it's not a bad assumption and it fits Trump's stereotype).
So where does the Republican base stand on El Chapo? Is there no way to blame Obama for either his success or his arrest? Where are these guys on a front page news story of such titillating significance? I'm truly disappointed.
13
I wouldn't be surprised if many of the leading Republicans know El Chapo very well.
I'm sure the Republicans will be blaming Obama publicly very soon. Must have caught them by surprise.
Sean Penn is just one of a vast multitude of Leftists in America who detest our country so much, they will go do any lengths to honor even the most vile and despicable human beings--drug lords, genocidal dictators, murderous psychopaths, Islamic jihadis, and anyone else who is trying to destroy America and Western Civilization. Penn is the product of the hateful American Left, which has massively lied about what our country stands for an its history to such an extraordinary degree that huge portions of our population only feel hatred and contempt for the greatest country that has ever existed.
Penn is a small-minded, easily deceived man, dragged into his self-loathing world by the constant drumbeat of "hate America" rhetoric (filed with massive lies and half-truths) that flows freely and constantly from our public schools and universities, Hollywood, much of the media, environmentalists, Feminists, countless organizations, and many Democrat and liberal politicians--Obama and his ilk chief among them. It's no mystery that a presidential candidate (no matter what his faults) who wants to "Make America Great Again" has garnered massive support across a wide swath of this country. The America Sean Penn hates has had enough of his type.
Penn is a small-minded, easily deceived man, dragged into his self-loathing world by the constant drumbeat of "hate America" rhetoric (filed with massive lies and half-truths) that flows freely and constantly from our public schools and universities, Hollywood, much of the media, environmentalists, Feminists, countless organizations, and many Democrat and liberal politicians--Obama and his ilk chief among them. It's no mystery that a presidential candidate (no matter what his faults) who wants to "Make America Great Again" has garnered massive support across a wide swath of this country. The America Sean Penn hates has had enough of his type.
10
I am a leftist. I am an American. I am a feminist. I too love this country and I deplore Sean Penn's reckless and self-serving behavior. I, however, am going to vote for Bernie Sanders, whose political beliefs would guarantee that the economic and social environment that produced and fostered El Chapo could never occur here.
I understand what you're saying, and your frustration. But I don't think Mr. Penn is there for the political reasons you suggest, as part of a "Leftist" conspiracy to undermine our country. I believe he's possibly trying to further some film-related project he's involved with - after all, that's what he does. I also think the offer from Rolling Stone and all this free publicity might have been too strong a cocktail to decline, as it would be for many whatever their political affiliation.
Not saying this excuses it, but I don't think further polarizing our fair country with comments such as yours is in anyone's best interest.
I also believe that reducing vast swaths of our population to Left or Right automatons is a mistake. We're all individuals with our own ideas, we're your friends and family and co-workers, all trying to do what we think is best for ourselves and for others - much more than simply Left or Right.
Not saying this excuses it, but I don't think further polarizing our fair country with comments such as yours is in anyone's best interest.
I also believe that reducing vast swaths of our population to Left or Right automatons is a mistake. We're all individuals with our own ideas, we're your friends and family and co-workers, all trying to do what we think is best for ourselves and for others - much more than simply Left or Right.
Except... the candidate who says 'Make America Great Again' is implying America is not great. So who hates America?
1
Actually read Penn's article before this. It was a screed. Penn on Penn, with Chapo as a hook. As Trump is showing, all that counts in our time is money and fame. Broken systems have thrown men like Penn, Chapo, and Trump in to the limelight. And broken systems keep them there. And keep our broken systems broken. Rolling Stone rolls in to my in-box free. I am canceling.
12
um...Shawn Penn may not be Erwin Schrodinger, but he's a principled, hard-working, first-rate actor who has dedicated himself to a variety of worthy causes. Comparing him to Trump is indecent.
Guzman feeds the insatiable love for drugs in the US: that's the root of this problem. Finding out details about him made sense. I don't hear a chorus of disgust when the endless wars the US fights are given scant coverage. War is war, whether it's against entire nations, or of a hideous gagster like Guzman against his own people.
10
Whoops: Should have read "gangster..."
2
Without consumers, most of whom live in the U.S., there is no drug business. You can push Twinkies in the barrio, the urban centers, the penthouses and they won't sell. Drugs are candy and El Chapo has merely served a market. i blame our dopers, our stoners, our drug-addled Hippies, our dead-gone surfers, our Wall Street sniffers and our crooked cops. Politicians fall in their somewhere. Penn interviewing El Chapo is to be expected. Unlike El Chapo, however, he simply needs publicity...
3
I blame the DEA and the US Congress for making drugs illegal.
2
and your country has declared the war on drugs to be over. 1st step, legalized marijuana. Next up will be cocaine and heroin. then we will become a country of addicts, with our wealth going to support the habit. you can use your imagination to visualize the continuing string of future events and where it all leads
Many of those people you push blame on are themselves victims, not necessarily the culprits you make them out to be. No one sets out with a life goal of becoming an addict, and many think it will never happen to them. Just look, for example, at the drug addiction that's legally been created in this country over the past decade.
Information is good, especially when you can get it from the subject himself. I think Penn did a good job in helping the USA understand what we are up against. Would I want information on Adolf Hitler, the Bushes, Bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, 0bama? Of course. Knowledge of the enemy is always good.
18
What knowledge? Have you even read the RS article? Lacks perception, insight and objectivity. Tells nothing about the enemy the DEA did not know...
This is so shocking that it must be the end of Sean Penn. Can't he be arrested for abetting an enemy? or some other crime? How did he know and not tell where this killer was? What a dirtbag!
9
Oh good grief, calm down. He didn't "abet" anyone. And what other crime would you like him arrested for? Littering?
1
You'd be better off indicting your state Reps and Senators.
1
Why not shake hands and have dinner with a murderer and drug pusher? I guess they both enjoyed meeting another celebrity. Maybe he made comments on the movie script or was looking to see if he could even star in the role. It makes perfect sense for him. Good actor. Terrible choices. I'm sure he sees himself as a beacon of peace and liberty, and I'm sure he does some charitable and decent things, but his visit to Iraq, his friendship and praise of Hugo Chavez, and now this - I don't get it.
6
It's simple enough; Sean Penn is a "socialist". He's a radical revolutionary forevermore seeking a revolution. El Chapo is a folk hero to him, just like Guevara, Castro, Ho Chi Minh, "Chairman" Mao, Bonnie and Clyde, the Sandanistas, John Dillinger, and Vladimir Lenin - ad nauseum, ad infinitum.
Hugo Chavez? Yeah, helping the poor and alleviating illiteracy in Venezuela are awful crimes. No wonder we had to launch a coup to stop this behavior and reinstall business friendly garbage in Venezuela.
Just a few thoughts about this. This was probably not the best thing for Sean Penn to do but it does gives insights to the criminal and also that it may be that Sean Penn was also responsible for the capture. Let see how this plays out before we criticize him.
7
Of course Penn was instrumental in leading the authorities to Chapo, and his ultimate capture! It is for his own safety that he must be called out and ridiculed for "aiding and abetting" this murderous thug. If Chapo were to ever suspect the truth, Penn would quickly become worm food. So let's not mention Penn's heroic role in this masterful plan to locate and apprehend.... Oops, never mind.
1
I do not think anyone could fail to see the connection between El Chapo and Hollywood. They compliment each other nicely.
8
Before you register more outrage, skepticism or venom - clearly the comment section already has enough of that - read the Rolling Stone article. Next, do try to look past Mr. Penn challenges as a writer and discuss the deeper issues involved, please? The article makes clear - and I believe this is Mr. Penn's intent. America's drug policies are both hypocritical and a failure. As Mr. Guzman so clearly points out, his capture and even his death will not slow the drug business down one bit. The demand for drugs is so relentless that someone else will fill Mr. Guzman's shoes before the body cools. The profits are so great and Mexico's poverty so grinding that the reward will always outweigh the risk. I suspect, hidden in Mr. Penn's clumsy journalism is the very thoughtful point that it is time for the American public to accept the fact that we love drugs and will pay any price to get them. Look to your own families. Is there an addict or abuser among them? If you say there isn't you haven't looked hard enough. America's drug needs and our puritan laws have created the job that Mr. Guzman occupies. The blood is on all our collective hands, we should stop being so smug.
41
We also shouldn't be so blind as to not see our own country's policies and how they've contributed to the grinding poverty south of the border in the name of American business interest. No different than in many other places in the world, such as the Middle East.
So you believe that the most qualified (not to mention appropriate) people to comment on the American policy on drugs are a mass murderer and industrial-scale drug trafficker, and a Hollywood actor and one-time supporter of Hugo Chavez? And that the best outlet for their commentary is the noxious Rolling Stone magazine, the very same magazine that brought us the University of Virginia rape hoax?
I'd seriously question why anyone should care at all about what Sean Penn thinks about anything, much less the war on drugs. And what Guzman has to say has to rank several levels of magnitude below even that. I think it's more than obvious that these two characters, and their publisher, don't have any credibility whatsoever.
I'd seriously question why anyone should care at all about what Sean Penn thinks about anything, much less the war on drugs. And what Guzman has to say has to rank several levels of magnitude below even that. I think it's more than obvious that these two characters, and their publisher, don't have any credibility whatsoever.
16
You should have received a NYT Pick for your comment. It's an excellent comment.
3
The drug war is a political creation designed to keep money flowing to the prison industrial complex. This industry has figured out a way to monetize the scourge of addiction and mental illness. At the same time they manipulate public opinion with shallow analysis and irrational emotional appeals to racial prejudice. Our drug laws and greed are the real cancer in our society.
14
Exactly! Perfectly said!
I'm glad this drug lord was captured but he was correct when he said that the drug trade will still exist when he is gone. As long as there is demand, the cartels will exist. We have been struggling with this issue for decades and it doesn't seem to ever improve, and I'm an optimist most of the time.
3
The article in Rolling Stone is worth reading. Whatever else you may say about Guzman, he is no fool. Imagine what he had to do to get where he is today. His interview makes it clear that the drug trade exists because it fills a powerful vacuum. It exists on the production and distribution side because there is no other way to make a living for many of the people involved. It exists on the consumption side because the users have no higher purpose, no greater responsibility, no better use of their time, than to use drugs, or they perceive it that way. It is a consequence of a failure of society.
170
He wants to make a movie on Guzman. Do you really think he cares about journalism? Guzman is a criminal. Not so much for drugs, but for being responsible for hundreds of murders in Mexico.
Nonsense.
The drug trade exists because America has made drugs illegal.
You know how much butchery and crime surrounds alcohol? That's right. None. Because after prohibition, it became legal.
The drug trade exists because America has made drugs illegal.
You know how much butchery and crime surrounds alcohol? That's right. None. Because after prohibition, it became legal.
It's a worthless interview. Well, unless you want to build sympathy for drug kingpins and users. (El Chapo paints himself as this innocent little guy who wouldn't hurt a flee and who was just trying to scrounge a meal.) If I can't get a job, do you condone that I kill you and your kids and take your money? I've got to eat!
Sean Penn's job as an artist is to seek understanding and translate that knowledge in a way that is accessible to his audience so that individuals might better comprehend themselves and their world.
The job of law enforcement is to capture criminals and protect society from crime. The drug trade and those who conduct it are too little understood by Americans whose insatiable demand funds the enterprise. I am thankful to the artists who can help me to better understand the world I live in, and I've no expectation that they also have a responsibility to practice law enforcement. A society that claims to be free needs artistic rebels.
The job of law enforcement is to capture criminals and protect society from crime. The drug trade and those who conduct it are too little understood by Americans whose insatiable demand funds the enterprise. I am thankful to the artists who can help me to better understand the world I live in, and I've no expectation that they also have a responsibility to practice law enforcement. A society that claims to be free needs artistic rebels.
26
Very well said!
2
The strange news that the Mexican government will extradite their most notorious prisoner for prosecution in the United States surely is linked to the strange news of the Penn-Chapo summit meeting. Considering the linkage of the events, Penn's exploits as a not-so-secret agent should be part of the El Chapo bio-pic.
Looks like El Chapo's ego was his downfall. He wanted a movie hagiography, but instead he got re-arrested - and gave Rolling Stone the exclusive of the year. Kudos to Sean Penn and to all involved.
3
Sean Penn, always on the line between right and wrong, this may win him some fans but certainly no friends, perhaps a few more distractors.
1
I can't believe the negativity of the comments towards Sean Penn. One may approve or disapprove of his actions; however, the arrest of Mr. Guzman represents the absurdity of this country's decades long "war on drugs." Given our country's insatiable demand for illicit drugs, there will always be a 100 other "El Chapos" waiting in the wings. The war on drugs seems more of a full employment program for U.S. law enforcement than anything else. It certainly hasn't shown any success other than showcasing sensational arrests from time to time.
8
There are many poor people in Mexico but only a few become criminals. El Chapo would have us believe he sells drugs only because Mexico is poor and Penn is a useful dupe who blames America for Mexico’s poverty.
Mexico has the resources to be a prosperous nation. Mexico is poor because the Mexican government is corrupt and a few super rich families control Mexico’s wealth. In contrast, the U.S. is governed as a constitutionally limited republic and has an economy based on free market capitalism.
Mexico has the resources to be a prosperous nation. Mexico is poor because the Mexican government is corrupt and a few super rich families control Mexico’s wealth. In contrast, the U.S. is governed as a constitutionally limited republic and has an economy based on free market capitalism.
5
Mexico is poor because the Mexican government is corrupt and a few super rich families control Mexico’s wealth. The U.S. is well on its way to becoming just the same.
We have so-called peaceful people here in the US who break the laws because, as they say, we have "no choice."
Ah, but we do have a choice.
Ah, but we do have a choice.
3
The Mexican authorities were unable to find El Chapo but Sean Penn was dining with him and a popular TV actress. Pfft...!
• Mr. Penn’s account is likely to deepen the concern among the Mexican authorities already embarrassed by Mr. Guzmán’s multiple escapes, the months required to find him again and his status for some as something of a folk hero.
He will escape again for all of the above reasons and because the Mexican police is the most corrupt anywhere, not just incompetent – from the lowest rookie to the highest is command, everyone is on the take; ditto for the government bureaucracy – and will do anything, including commit murder, for a couple of pesos. It's the way it is and the way it's always been and always will be.
What can you expect in a culture where killers pray to 'la Virgen de la Guadalupe', patron saint of México, for success in killing? I'm sure el Chapo is a pious man as well.
• In the end, the Mexican authorities said Friday night that Mr. Guzmán had been caught partly because he had been planning a movie about his life, and had contacted actors and producers, which had helped the authorities to track him down.
"Vanity, thy name is" El Chapo!*
Misappropriated and adapted from Shakespeare: Hamlet.
• Mr. Penn’s account is likely to deepen the concern among the Mexican authorities already embarrassed by Mr. Guzmán’s multiple escapes, the months required to find him again and his status for some as something of a folk hero.
He will escape again for all of the above reasons and because the Mexican police is the most corrupt anywhere, not just incompetent – from the lowest rookie to the highest is command, everyone is on the take; ditto for the government bureaucracy – and will do anything, including commit murder, for a couple of pesos. It's the way it is and the way it's always been and always will be.
What can you expect in a culture where killers pray to 'la Virgen de la Guadalupe', patron saint of México, for success in killing? I'm sure el Chapo is a pious man as well.
• In the end, the Mexican authorities said Friday night that Mr. Guzmán had been caught partly because he had been planning a movie about his life, and had contacted actors and producers, which had helped the authorities to track him down.
"Vanity, thy name is" El Chapo!*
Misappropriated and adapted from Shakespeare: Hamlet.
1
Isn't it time to de-criminalize drugs since we already know prohibition of any sort doesn't work. Alcohol anyone? Let's wake up and tax The stuff so we can at least help those who don't do drugs.
4
El Chapo is a priime example of capitalism in practice and capitalism at its best - forever putting profits before people. Something Republicans in the US seem to think is the best policy for the US. (Less government and fewer regulations - big business rules and Donald Trump is elected President of the United Corporations of America.)
Capitalism is a good way to make money - no doubt about it.
It is also, however, amoral - completely devoid of any sense of right or wrong and that is why the US needs a strong government and proper regulations to keep those great money-making American corporations from reducing us all to subserviant peonage.
Capitalism is a good way to make money - no doubt about it.
It is also, however, amoral - completely devoid of any sense of right or wrong and that is why the US needs a strong government and proper regulations to keep those great money-making American corporations from reducing us all to subserviant peonage.
12
What self-respecting drug lord and murderer would meet with Sean Penn?
5
If he disappeared, he said, it would make no difference to the drug business.
Arguments of morality aside, this is the sad truth of America's collective drug habit. Perhaps we should look at our consumer driven way of life in a mirror and try to understand why it drives so many of us to drug use.
Arguments of morality aside, this is the sad truth of America's collective drug habit. Perhaps we should look at our consumer driven way of life in a mirror and try to understand why it drives so many of us to drug use.
1
Sean penn belongs in jail. Guzman was one of the most wanted criminals in the world To meet with him and not report it to U.S. Or Mexican law enforcement is treasonous. Is the FBI or the CIA or our DOJ going to give him a free pass because he's a "celebrat" and big democrat donor ? This is the same celebrat who also stood up for Venezuela 's Chavez. Penn is an enemy of the United States.
9
No, he just has more courage and a larger spirit of adventure than most folks who live lives of quiet desperation.
7
"Penn is an enemy of the United States."
You make that sound like a bad thing.
You make that sound like a bad thing.
A bit strange that the NYTimes hesitated to publish Julian Assange for fear of crossing the line, the heroic Assange, but they dont pause for one second to publish this article of a celebrity seeking couple a movie star superficial bad boy allure and one of the most evil men on the planet
Anything for eyeballs. Shame.
Anything for eyeballs. Shame.
10
This man is a murderer and torturer. He supplies products that kills or create addicts of tens of thousands of Americanss each year. And Penn, instead of setting this slime up to be caught by the Mexicans, has to get more glory sicne his Venezuelan pal died.
Penn is no humanitarian. He's a greedy, dumb, crude egomaniac.
Penn is no humanitarian. He's a greedy, dumb, crude egomaniac.
5
Leave it to the extreme right to try to link Hugo Chavez to El Chapo via Sean Penn.
Absurd.
Absurd.