Women in my building in Fl...65 ish, no makeup, not thin, grey hair, volunteers 7 days a week, all day, including board memberships. Husband exercises daily, tan, handsome, plastic surgery, fancy car, and first time I met him in gym told me "it's not cheating if you don't get caught". A very odd couple, but seemingly happily married, and content with their very different images.
This was a great article, start to finish! When I think of what women could accomplish if they didn't spend all their emotional energy looking at their scale or their mirror--or all their money on diets and exercise regimens--it makes me want to weep.
13
"a point at which you were no longer expected to perform what sometimes feels like a woman’s major duty in life — looking good for men."
I beg to differ. Of the two genders (and any in between), the most observant and by far the most critical appraisers of women's looks and fashion are other women. It isn't even close. Ask any man what one woman he saw the evening before wore, then ask any woman what every other woman wore. Women not only dress for other women and secondarily for men, but are merciless and often downright mean in their judgements. Men do not need to oppress women; they do a fine job of it themselves. Internalized sexism rules.
I beg to differ. Of the two genders (and any in between), the most observant and by far the most critical appraisers of women's looks and fashion are other women. It isn't even close. Ask any man what one woman he saw the evening before wore, then ask any woman what every other woman wore. Women not only dress for other women and secondarily for men, but are merciless and often downright mean in their judgements. Men do not need to oppress women; they do a fine job of it themselves. Internalized sexism rules.
22
women will stop trying to look perfect when they no longer care if men view them as sexual objects. it's their decision to make.
11
The oldest of recorded history indicate women enjoyed getting dolled up. So it's not new. What is sickening today is how they succumb to the hawkers of "body augmentation." As do their male counterparts.
I have found the idea of dressing to impress men to be odd my whole life. I like nicely-cut clothes, heels, and tasteful make-up but I wear them primarily for *myself* because I like to look neat and put together. If it's someone I love, I will dress in the clothes they like me in for special occasions but other than that, I don't get it. Because of that "don't really care attitude", I don't have the issues the authors write about of trying to be "perfect."
1
I view Oprah as very smart and savvy, not exactly a true intellect by any stretch, though pyschology and overall communications are truly her strong points. Having said that, I agree with a commenter's point of being "rich and relevant"...and thus, making more money despite her commitment to so many charities, educational efforts, etc.
If you think of it, the elegance and true beauty, in its more natural, raw state, went out by the early or mid 70's... Technology and social media will further denigrate those who believe relying on "looks of beauty" ...the overwhelming majority of Amercians..aren't even sophisticated!! They all enter into a "herd mentality"....
If you think of it, the elegance and true beauty, in its more natural, raw state, went out by the early or mid 70's... Technology and social media will further denigrate those who believe relying on "looks of beauty" ...the overwhelming majority of Amercians..aren't even sophisticated!! They all enter into a "herd mentality"....
1
Re: size matters. I suppose if genetics (or illness) were solely responsible for the obesity that we see on the increase among both sexes, there wouldn't be much to argue. But poor diets and lack of exercise are the major contributions to "fat", not the destinies determined by genes. It is incredible when someone does not make an effort to understand the root of their weight problems and make the changes necessary to retain their health. I don't understand the fat culture today in which men and women proudly display the results of their super-size diets and adjust their thinking for the inevitably shortened (and inactive) lives they lead. BTW, genetics have pretty much kept me at 6'2" and 180 lbs. - yet I have to watch to keep that over-60 gut from developing - doctors tell me I'm in a demographic that isn't aware of the consequences of a little harmless potbelly.
1
As a lifelong lover of art and all things beautiful, I love making myself look attractive. My body, hair, and clothing are an aesthetic statement. NO, I'm not going in for plastic surgery because the truth is, it looks absolutely horrible in real life. I look my age, but nice--aesthetically joyful.
6
Being a women myself, I definitely agree in terms of we are more looked at and judged and expected to always have an attractive appearance unlike men. We are always judged on our weight, our facial appearance, being flawless from head to toe and for just being human. I see more on social networks that some people try to advertise imperfections as normal and as no one is perfect but it's hard to believe when "perfect" people are always in our face whether it be the media, role models, or magazines. I think Carrie Fisher was and is still being judged on her return to the big screen simply because she is a women. If one of the original male actors made an appearance or had a main role in the new Star Wars, much praise would come from viewers and people would love to see his old face again. Mind you, I have not seen the new Star Wars so one of the original male actors could've appeared in the new movie, but I haven't heard any controversy about them since the movie came out. Of course Ms. Fisher has gone through life and experiences that change her, but she will always be beautiful. A mark, blemish, or number on a scale shouldn't determine beauty. It's so sad how much money women spend on makeup, perfume, acne medicine, etc. and all men have to worry about is MAYBE smelling good. I just believe that women are overly judged and the world should see that no one is perfect.
3
When I was in my 30's I have had the wonderful experience of being friends with a much older women - then 70 - and was friends with her until she died at 92. Brenda an Alexander teacher, musician and composer was a beauty, that made head turns when she entered a room. Her hair was grey and her face very very wrinkled. Her dress conservative-elegant.
What made heads turn was the depth of her inner beauty that radiated out from her sparkling blue eyes. Despite physical pain (a chronic condition) she always had a warm and radiant smile and never a complaint. She had a lively curious mind and a great sense of humor. She loved people. She loved music, art, literature, dance and theatre.
By example, Brenda taught me you can grow old and look beautiful and be comfortable with wrinkles and grey hair. What is most important is not the surface but what you are inside. She was for me the perfect role model for aging gracefully and elegantly.
What made heads turn was the depth of her inner beauty that radiated out from her sparkling blue eyes. Despite physical pain (a chronic condition) she always had a warm and radiant smile and never a complaint. She had a lively curious mind and a great sense of humor. She loved people. She loved music, art, literature, dance and theatre.
By example, Brenda taught me you can grow old and look beautiful and be comfortable with wrinkles and grey hair. What is most important is not the surface but what you are inside. She was for me the perfect role model for aging gracefully and elegantly.
20
Carrie Fisher is smart, witty and funny in spite of all the hard times she went through. That's my definition of aging gracefully.
18
Carrie Fisher, at 59, needs no apology for aging and no longer looking as she die at 19, 22, and 26. Criticism of her appearance is infantile. However, criticism of her acting, which was wooden, is legitimate.
I'm 60, my wife is 57. I don't look streamlined as I did at 30, and she shows her age well, but doesn't look 26 anymore. So what? I'm not Donald Trump: I'm in my relationship, my love affair with my wife for the long term, for the rest of my life. "Growing old together" means you recognize that you both WILL grow old and glory in that you get to do it together. That's what love means, and I'd feel sorry for Trump and his desperate need for young, over-endowed arm-candy, if he wasn't such a vile, rude boor.
I'm 60, my wife is 57. I don't look streamlined as I did at 30, and she shows her age well, but doesn't look 26 anymore. So what? I'm not Donald Trump: I'm in my relationship, my love affair with my wife for the long term, for the rest of my life. "Growing old together" means you recognize that you both WILL grow old and glory in that you get to do it together. That's what love means, and I'd feel sorry for Trump and his desperate need for young, over-endowed arm-candy, if he wasn't such a vile, rude boor.
14
What is most important is being healthy and feeling alive with abundant spirit. Our country is obsessed with the liveliness of youth but older people can also feel exuberant. It is a life choice.
However, our food supply is a huge culprit in overweight. Corporations make sure processed food tastes good but it has no nutritional value. GMO's, antibiotics in beef, artificial food with arsenic for chickens to make them grow faster is not in our best interests. People eat because they are still hungry, meaning the body hasn't received what it needs to survive. The result is 2/3 of us are either overweight or obese.
However, our food supply is a huge culprit in overweight. Corporations make sure processed food tastes good but it has no nutritional value. GMO's, antibiotics in beef, artificial food with arsenic for chickens to make them grow faster is not in our best interests. People eat because they are still hungry, meaning the body hasn't received what it needs to survive. The result is 2/3 of us are either overweight or obese.
4
The problem with this article is equating 15 + pounds and obesity. Sure, being heavier as one ages can be just fine, but obesity, not to mention morbid obesity, is dangerous, depressing, painful. Anyone eating what their cardiologist recommends doesn't end up obese; obesity is an addiction to certain foods - sweet and processed - to the point where one cannot stop. There is a reality show called My 600 Pound Life; people in the 300 + range are now far from exceptional. Medical facilities are struggling to find resources to treat these people, as additional staff and special equipment is needed. This is SERIOUS, it's way beyond the obsession to be skinny - and I agree with Jennifer Weiner that it would be great to get beyond that. But men and women are growing beyond the beyonds, and obesity is now a national health catastrophe.
5
Ha.
Here I was, thinking (when the title of the article caught my eye) that this piece was really asking at what point in the future will we stop judging women so harshly on their appearance -- not at what age are women allowed to stop stressing out about the way they look.
Silly me.
Here I was, thinking (when the title of the article caught my eye) that this piece was really asking at what point in the future will we stop judging women so harshly on their appearance -- not at what age are women allowed to stop stressing out about the way they look.
Silly me.
6
ಥ_ಥ
#thestruggleisreal
#thestruggleisreal
3
Anyone over forty knows (unless they are just genetically thin or extremely shallow). The immature young men (and women?) who hound Carrie Fischer because she doesn't look twenty anymore, will one day have to look their own aging selves in a mirror. The grace is in handling it well, so as to make aging irrelevant, rather than employing tricks to make people not notice. Not something many twenty year olds could accomplish.
18
I hope Oprah is successful this time and finds the key to teaching millions to lose and keep the weight off. She cares and she is genuine. For the record, she was unsuccessful in this endeavor during her talk show with her long time diet and fitness coach, Bob Greene. Greene made a lot of green with his 10 books on the subject (2 co-authored by Oprah) which were largely not practical and in the end not helpful. For the record, Weight Watchers is not very good at helping people keep the weight off either. But let's hope for the best.
4
Poor Oprah. Even after all of her success, she can't accept herself the way she is. And it's no wonder: What we see again and again and again is that no matter what a fat person accomplishes in life, the world will never stop dumping on them for being fat. Let's look at two examples:
Remember Regina Benjamin? She was President Obama's original choice for Surgeon General. She has a resume full of educational and professional accomplishments that most of us will never even come close to. including several significant "firsts." And as soon as Obama picked her, up came the chorus of voices saying she was not qualified because she was fat. That she was a poor role model because she was fat. To look at THAT resume and say Benjamin was a poor role model is a level of diseased thinking that really blows the mind.
Another example: Chris Christie. I am not a fan of his, but it must be acknowledged that he holds a job so hard to get that there are only 49 other people on earth who have it: Governor of a U.S. state. And yet even THAT is not enough to stop people from ridiculing him for being fat.
What can we learn from this? That there is literally no level of personal accomplishment that will make the world stop ridiculing a fat person. No matter what you accomplish, no matter what you attain, all you are is fat, and you are a failure.
No wonder Oprah is still so desperately insecure about her body after all this years and all the billions of dollars.
Remember Regina Benjamin? She was President Obama's original choice for Surgeon General. She has a resume full of educational and professional accomplishments that most of us will never even come close to. including several significant "firsts." And as soon as Obama picked her, up came the chorus of voices saying she was not qualified because she was fat. That she was a poor role model because she was fat. To look at THAT resume and say Benjamin was a poor role model is a level of diseased thinking that really blows the mind.
Another example: Chris Christie. I am not a fan of his, but it must be acknowledged that he holds a job so hard to get that there are only 49 other people on earth who have it: Governor of a U.S. state. And yet even THAT is not enough to stop people from ridiculing him for being fat.
What can we learn from this? That there is literally no level of personal accomplishment that will make the world stop ridiculing a fat person. No matter what you accomplish, no matter what you attain, all you are is fat, and you are a failure.
No wonder Oprah is still so desperately insecure about her body after all this years and all the billions of dollars.
6
Thank you, Jennifer Weiner. This the best commentary I have read on the subject of women and weight ever. And I am 82 years old. Thank you again. Now I'm going to Amazon to order your most recent novel.
3
I've just skimmed most of the comments and -- although I just brought this up in a reply below -- feel the need to pose an open question. Why is there no criticism here for the many heavily redone (and overdone) newscasters we see on our TV screens every night? The backlash here seems to be aimed at fashion models, actors, and celebrity culture in general. But TV newscasters and reporters are under tremendous pressure to look young(ish) and physically appealing. I was shocked and saddened when one of the old-school, serious reporters (so few of them left, unfortunately) I have been following for decades finally succumbed to a lift and cosmetic makeover. But I am certain she had no choice in the matter, if she wanted to keep working. So are these people given a free pass by the online pie throwers because people accept that looks are a critical part of their jobs? Or is it because we don't want to see age-ravaged faces on our screens? And aren't both of those things at least partially true for film and television actors, and pop culture icons (character actors are allowed to age, and wrinkled men are considered handsome)? Why the double standard? I watch a lot of news every day, and every day I am annoyed to see so many women done up like Barbie dolls, even to deliver the most devastating news.
9
I rather enjoy my invisibility these days (late 50s). What other people, male or female, think of my appearance no longer matters. I didn't realize the strain it was putting on me to look perfect throughout my babe years (thanks, Fashionista Mom). I am healthy, well-groomed, content, conversant, and finally comfortable with myself. I'd rather hang out with people who are attracted to that rather than to my appearance. Those people were often shallow as hell.
8
Of course older women "cease to exist" in beauty pageants when they get old.. Older men likewise stop getting hired as poolboys or Abercrombie models. I'm not sure it makes sense for society to aggrandize older women as being "pretty" -- even though we all know they no longer are stunning starlets -- simply because it's politically correct. Instead, let's showcase older women who are making contributions to society based on their wisdom and experience that don't have anything to do with their looks, or age.. Hillary Clinton, Gloria Steinem, and even older actresses that show that it's possible to be active and relevant like Angela Bassett and Jane Fonda. And if it makes them happy to make themselves as beautiful and trim as they like, there's nothing wrong with that -- sometimes people just want to look their best, even if it has nothing to do with the opposite (or same) sex. At the same time, why not let younger women who are physically in the prime of their lives experience the spotlight, for that brief moment? If nothing else, narrowing the window of when they are considered physically appealing incentivizes them to find another avenue later in life that will make them still relevant, e.g., engaging in a professional endeavor unrelated to their appearance. I would rather have younger women gaining confidence that a long road of happiness is in front of them, and it's OK if they trade runways for advocacy and a different kind of public presence when they are older.
3
Jennifer, i was never into your type of chick lit, but i have to say i like what you re saying. And i will take a 2nd look bc i agree with u wholeheartedly and you re one of the first that has had this wide a platform. Brava!
3
All this being your best self, and constant emphasis on self improvement is relatively new. I suspect its highly related to improving the bottom line of companies selling clothing, makeup, weight loss solutions, nail treatment, plastic surgery, hair extensions and every other perfection related product on the market. All I can say is that when I way young, I didn't know anyone who had ever had a manicure, a pedicure or waxing. All new aspects of the ever higher bar that must be met to be merely ok. Oh and by the way, nobody loves you for your perfect nails or shape. A real relationship is about the heart and the soul and authenticity and chemistry. So just say no and things might go back to reasonable again.
7
Here's an "old guy" writing ( 60) - I've found among women I know - my wife, sisters, friends- as I and they have aged, that their outward "attractiveness" has mostly to do with their attitude and self confidence. Not being thin or needing to dress "young" but just being healthy and happy. The translation of those factors to your eyes, face, smile and behavior have more to do with looking good (to this old guy) than body size.
2
The big question is why do we care so much what others think? I recently chose to quit coloring my hair...the men in my life couldn't have cared less. It was the women who were horrified, stunned or just plain......"What? I don't understand."
"Aren't you afraid that you will look old?" Answer: "No."
"Doesn't your husband want you to keep coloring?" Answer: "No."
Then the...."I could NEVER do that"....I sort of felt bad for them.
"Aren't you afraid that you will look old?" Answer: "No."
"Doesn't your husband want you to keep coloring?" Answer: "No."
Then the...."I could NEVER do that"....I sort of felt bad for them.
4
No one is perfect and women are beautiful at all ages though you wouldn’t know that in our society - change is desperately needed. What certainly doesn’t help is when women – even very young women - use botox, fillers and more drastic plastic surgery to “look better/younger”. They virtually never do, and the message it sends is that aging naturally is anathema. Carrie Fisher is not the only actor (of any sex) to indulge in the mistaken belief that they look better with some “work”. I, and I’m sure most audiences for Star Wars, would have had no issues with her weight whatsoever. However the inability of her face to express emotion onscreen and the difficulty she appears to have in moving her mouth are legitimate subjects for comment in the context of her job; I wanted some lines in the script to explain that she’d be injured by some sort of freeze ray for which there was no treatment. Is it difficult to watch the lines appear and the skin change texture? Yes. Is there pressure for women in public life to look younger? Yes, but you have a choice as to how you respond to that. There is beauty and strength in aging naturally and allowing the life you’ve lived to be honored, not least by oneself.
1
Perhaps women can stop trying to look perfect when men stop trying to act stupid. Great effort, though, by both genders.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
www.endthemadnessnow.org
Native American communities believe that age brings with it wisdom. Old native women are as respected for their life experiences as old men. The idea of a post-menopausal native woman still wasting time fretting over her sex appeal is absurd. The tribe would say she has rejected the gold of wisdom in favor of the uselessness of pyrite (fool's gold).
3
It is discouraging that women's bodies are somehow public property, not just in terms of appearance and weight, but their choices about birth control, abortion, breast-feeding--all subject for debate and political actions. It's as though there is no way for a woman to be NOT a sexual object, only an unsuccessful one in somebody's book.
3
"Lose weight and gain so much more."
Inadvertently, they've turned their business model into a slogan.
Inadvertently, they've turned their business model into a slogan.
12
We all need to also think of what is being discovered in the science of microbes. We may find that bacterial changes in many of those seen as "lazy and fat" have instigated their difficulty in losing and keeping off their weight. Why has the obesity rate skyrocketed over the last few decades? I was a bike messenger in Boston in the '80s and one of my fellow cyclists was a very obese woman. She spent 8 hrs a day ,just like me , frantically zipping around town delivering packages and yet she never appeared to lose any weight. Americans have retained the Purianical view of blaming others for any physical appearance not deemed perfect. Back then it was also a sin to be ugly! There are so many pressures on women to look perfect, as a"scholar" said once "Judge not yet ye be judged."
18
I saw the Star Wars movies yesterday, and the press about Ms Fisher's age, for me, absolutely ruined the scenes with her in it. It disrupted the movie. It made her role as leader of the Resistance; which was tenuous at best, unbelievable.
Without it, I just would of have accepted her appearance, as it was. She's 40 years older. Period. Ford and Hamill looked equally well worn.
After the movie my wife and I ate a late lunch. I looked across the table in the fading afternoon light, and saw, as I rarely do, that she looked older. It's not something I think about, and it's a feeling overwhelmed by rich memories of a lifetime together.
Denying age is a denial of 1/2 of ones existence. It's bad enough, that when you reach post-fifty, you have to remind people, "Hey, I'm STILL HERE!."
When you've internalized that self-deprecation through society's pressure, it's not healthy, for anyone.
Without it, I just would of have accepted her appearance, as it was. She's 40 years older. Period. Ford and Hamill looked equally well worn.
After the movie my wife and I ate a late lunch. I looked across the table in the fading afternoon light, and saw, as I rarely do, that she looked older. It's not something I think about, and it's a feeling overwhelmed by rich memories of a lifetime together.
Denying age is a denial of 1/2 of ones existence. It's bad enough, that when you reach post-fifty, you have to remind people, "Hey, I'm STILL HERE!."
When you've internalized that self-deprecation through society's pressure, it's not healthy, for anyone.
26
Anne Lamott has it rt...the real work is an inside job, you can't work out for it or emotionally eat for it. I copy part of her Facebook post on diets and the New Year: "So please join me in not starting a diet January 1st.
It's really okay, though, to have (or pray for) an awakening around your body. It's okay to stop hitting the snooze button, and pay attention to what makes you feel great about yourself, one meal at a time. It's an inside job. If you are not okay with yourself at 185, you will not be okay at 150, or even 135. The self-respect and serenity you long for is not out there. It's within. I hate that. I resent that more than I can say. But it's true.
Maybe some of us will eat a bit less, and walk a bit more, and make sure to wear pants that do not hurt our thighs or our feelings Drinking more water is the solution to almost all problems.
I'll leave you with this: I've helped some of the sturdier women at my church get healthy, by suggesting they prepare each meal as if they had asked our beloved pastor to lunch or dinner. They wouldn't say, "Here Pastor--let's eat standing up in the kitchen. This tube of Pringles is ALL for you." And then stand there gobbling from their own tubular container.
No, they'd get out pretty dishes, and arrange wonderful foods on the plates, and set one plate before Veronica at the table, filled with happiness, love, pride and connection. That's what we have longed for, our whole lives, and get to create, now, or or on the 1st. Wow!"
It's really okay, though, to have (or pray for) an awakening around your body. It's okay to stop hitting the snooze button, and pay attention to what makes you feel great about yourself, one meal at a time. It's an inside job. If you are not okay with yourself at 185, you will not be okay at 150, or even 135. The self-respect and serenity you long for is not out there. It's within. I hate that. I resent that more than I can say. But it's true.
Maybe some of us will eat a bit less, and walk a bit more, and make sure to wear pants that do not hurt our thighs or our feelings Drinking more water is the solution to almost all problems.
I'll leave you with this: I've helped some of the sturdier women at my church get healthy, by suggesting they prepare each meal as if they had asked our beloved pastor to lunch or dinner. They wouldn't say, "Here Pastor--let's eat standing up in the kitchen. This tube of Pringles is ALL for you." And then stand there gobbling from their own tubular container.
No, they'd get out pretty dishes, and arrange wonderful foods on the plates, and set one plate before Veronica at the table, filled with happiness, love, pride and connection. That's what we have longed for, our whole lives, and get to create, now, or or on the 1st. Wow!"
7
I bristle at the notion of any person having the temerity to give others permission ("It's okay to..."), or tell them how to approach food (prepare food as if for the pastor...excuse me?). It's a blog-glutted world these days, and everyone (and their dog) knows the Truth and is all too willing to share it. I do agree with that both self love and self loathing arise from within. That's ancient advice, and universally undisputed, but entirely oversimplified. Self image is immensely complicated.
2
I'll tell you when women can stop trying to look perfect. When we stop judging EACH OTHER on our looks then the men will stop! I think this is about women against women.
17
Obviously, those who criticize Carrie Fisher have not seen her in recent years, she has had bit parts in other movies, so her looks in Star Wars were no surprise to me. Shame on all those who expected her to look at 60?? exactly like she looked when she was 19. Most of us don't look like we did at 19. Thank God. As for the weight loss industry, Weight Watchers (WW) and Oprah Winfrey, all I can say as a classic yo-yo dieter that body weight and size is a complex thing. There is no one size fits all approach. Different things work at least for a while for different people. I just got through reading Traci Mann's book and in it she talks about reaching your lowest body set point (remember that theory). She gives 12 strategies for reaching and maintaining your set point and 3 reasons why regular exercise is good for you. All of it was good information, unfortunately, she does not tell you how to figure out what your set point is. As someone who has been fat most of my adult life I have no idea what my set point would be now. I know what I would like my ideal weight to be - but is that my set point? I'm not sure if the message of the book is to follow her strategies and I will eventually reach my set point. Unfortunately, like WW she doesn't begin address compulsive eating and food addictions. I've spent a lot of time in the acceptance movement but that didn't work for me either because I didn't feel like my best self.
5
Angela, I have never been a yo-yo dieter, but I did gain a lot of weight while going through menopause. I had always been thin, so after things stabilized and I found myself more than 20 pounds above my old normal, and wanting to reduce, I was at a loss to figure out where my weight should be. What I should aim for, in other words. So I started researching BMI and body-fat-percentage data. I found that body fat calculation is very effective because you can target a weight (a set point) specifically for your age, activity level, and genetics. Unlike BMI, which does not account for physical build, calculations of body fat take into account your musculature and bone size. There are good charts available online that provide fat percentage ranges for young, competitive athletes all the way through to older, moderately active people. It's good to have an idea how much fat you NEED in your body. For women the minimum needed for normal function is (I am going by memory here) something like 14%, but a minimum of 18% is necessary for optimum health. When you get up toward 30% fat you are, medically speaking, headed into obesity. That may be one's set point -- the thing is to know what it is. If you know your body fat and how to monitor changes, you won't get caught up in the weight swings caused by water loss or retention, which happen with crash dieting. Good luck, and good health to you. Keep in mind that our brains are largely fat!
1
When Can Women Stop Trying to look perfect?
When men are no longer judged on their height.
Try the dating scene as a short man...worse than being a fat woman
When men are no longer judged on their height.
Try the dating scene as a short man...worse than being a fat woman
14
I married a man shorter than tall (female) me. Height is nothing but a minor annoyance (for instance, photographers who invariably insist on having me do a half sit on a ledge or something so I appear to be shorter than my husband in our portrait...jeeesh!).
2
Thanks to the person who wrote about Overcoming Overeating which is indeed a wise book.
To those who are concerned about the physical dangers of obesity: sure. Bear in mind that there are no reliable ways yet developed to insure weight loss: like chastising mountain climbers for not climbing a mountain whose location is unknown. Guilt and lectures are beside the point. And good health comes about through the interplay of a lot of different mechanisms, many of which run awry in the modern world.
To those who are concerned about the physical dangers of obesity: sure. Bear in mind that there are no reliable ways yet developed to insure weight loss: like chastising mountain climbers for not climbing a mountain whose location is unknown. Guilt and lectures are beside the point. And good health comes about through the interplay of a lot of different mechanisms, many of which run awry in the modern world.
7
As a fervent lover of women I have always been puzzled by this desire for perfection.
Have you not been around men much, ladies? When is the last time we kicked you out of bed for being 5lbs heavier? 10lbs? Because of those shoes? Or the brand of that bag? Or if we can see your pores? We really don't care. Trust me.
In case you haven't noticed, Maxim and FHM, the men's magazines, with their curvy, shapely and (gasp!) partially and even fully clothed women, have finally beaten the airbrushed, nude, perfect Playboy Playmate (Playboy announced no more nudes in their magazine).
Women assume far higher standards of beauty and so-called "perfection" than men actually desire. For example: is he saying you look "fat" in that dress or are you always asking? Trust me, the faster you stop asking, the happier you'll be, and so will he.
Have you not been around men much, ladies? When is the last time we kicked you out of bed for being 5lbs heavier? 10lbs? Because of those shoes? Or the brand of that bag? Or if we can see your pores? We really don't care. Trust me.
In case you haven't noticed, Maxim and FHM, the men's magazines, with their curvy, shapely and (gasp!) partially and even fully clothed women, have finally beaten the airbrushed, nude, perfect Playboy Playmate (Playboy announced no more nudes in their magazine).
Women assume far higher standards of beauty and so-called "perfection" than men actually desire. For example: is he saying you look "fat" in that dress or are you always asking? Trust me, the faster you stop asking, the happier you'll be, and so will he.
6
Really? Trust me, you are the exception, not the rule. Men don't kick you out of bed when you put some weight on, they leave the bed and find another one with a more attractive woman in it. That is the sad truth of life, at least in this country, where advertising tells us every day that women are only worthy if they are attractive, and every man deserves an attractive woman regardless of his own looks.
25
If you believe magazines like Maxim and FHM don't airbrush their models and the women just roll out of bed looking that way, I have a bridge in California to sell you.
8
Excellent article.
Women will stop trying to look perfect and stop competing with one another in some sort of interpersonal beauty contest when they make up their minds to do so.
This is a U.S. disease and men contribute.
One more example, in addition to firearm violence, perpetual war, excessive capitalism, and fundamentalist religion, of a very dysfunctional culture.
Women will stop trying to look perfect and stop competing with one another in some sort of interpersonal beauty contest when they make up their minds to do so.
This is a U.S. disease and men contribute.
One more example, in addition to firearm violence, perpetual war, excessive capitalism, and fundamentalist religion, of a very dysfunctional culture.
2
Mansplaing woman blaming. Not helpful.
5
I find almost endless amusement in articles like this one that try to "legislate" new attitudes about female beauty. We've had more than 100 years of feminism, a movement supposedly about freedom, yet certain women constantly attempt to intellectualize mandatory attitudes. Normatively, we tend to want people in the public eye to meet evolving standards of attractiveness. If you don't believe that it applies to men, ask Val Kilmer, who is often portrayed as the poster child of a man aging badly.
Get over it! Our society generally favors pretty/handsome over ugly, slim over fat, and quite a few other conventions that offend the whining identity warriors of our society. If you don't believe that should be the case, at least have the courage of your convictions. Live the way you want to and stop worrying about what others think of you. If some people want to chase the norms, let them live as they choose to. That, by the way, is called freedom.
Get over it! Our society generally favors pretty/handsome over ugly, slim over fat, and quite a few other conventions that offend the whining identity warriors of our society. If you don't believe that should be the case, at least have the courage of your convictions. Live the way you want to and stop worrying about what others think of you. If some people want to chase the norms, let them live as they choose to. That, by the way, is called freedom.
4
Yeah, freedom... And sadly, and also often means being alone. But hey, at least I have my convictions.
3
Strangely the emphasis in the article and in the reader's responses isn't where I thought it would be: on the giant industries which promote and profit from women's 'trying to look perfect'. Whether the food industry, the fitness, beauty, fashion, plastic surgery industries which are all, consciously or not, agents of the 'patriarchy' - including Oprah with her humiliating 'makeovers'. This powerful segment of the population has a lot to lose if women finally cut themselves free from its domination and become truly able to think for themselves. Think Women: who produces the so-called food which makes you fat, the clothes which mold your bodies into the same shape, the gyms, surgeons, make-up artists etc who do the same. I don't get it: we are all born looking different. Why should we have to look 'perfect' i.e. all the same? Who benefits from it? Certainly not us.
21
Women are judged very strictly and harshly on whether they are sexually attractive to men. Men will pontificate at length about human nature, about how men are attracted to young, healthy women and anything that deviates from that is unattractive. So plain features, or a fat body, anything they don't like seems to warrant criticism, as if being "hot" to every man should be a woman's purpose in life.
I was reading a book of essays and the writer talked about getting together with a friend to discuss beautiful women, since they were both "connoisseurs" of beautiful women. Yes, you and every guy in his underwear in front of the computer, buddy. I closed the book and never again read a single word by this essayist, well-reviewed and respected as he might be. He revealed himself as shallow as the next guy.
I thought feminism was about women--fat, thin, lovely, plain, old, young, healthy, ill-- being human beings with rights and dignity and thoughts and feelings of their own. Constant harping on the package is a way, a very effective way, to take that dignity away.
I was reading a book of essays and the writer talked about getting together with a friend to discuss beautiful women, since they were both "connoisseurs" of beautiful women. Yes, you and every guy in his underwear in front of the computer, buddy. I closed the book and never again read a single word by this essayist, well-reviewed and respected as he might be. He revealed himself as shallow as the next guy.
I thought feminism was about women--fat, thin, lovely, plain, old, young, healthy, ill-- being human beings with rights and dignity and thoughts and feelings of their own. Constant harping on the package is a way, a very effective way, to take that dignity away.
61
"As a lifelong devotee of fashion and tabloid magazines, I've read dozens of 'Beautiful/Sexy At Any Age features."
There's your problem. You've actually spent time on this nonsense.
There's your problem. You've actually spent time on this nonsense.
23
There is a reason why usually post 50 one starts hearing the phrase "you're looking good" instead of "you're good looking." For both women and men the truth is that our looks change no matter how well we try and preserve. Lips, hair and eyebrows thin and skin sags and wrinkles appear no matter what lotion is used. Hormones decrease, which give us less energy and sex appeal. I agree with Ms. Fisher when she also tweeted "looks are not accomplishements" because they fade with time. Indeed, the reality is that the aging process is made more palatable when you have a solid foundation of concrete and lasting accomplishements such as a rewarding career, good marriage and/or good relationships with friends and family and yes even money.
18
The comments on this article are terrifying; honestly, I expect more from NY Times readers. It's not about one person's weight or how one person looks. It's not even about "health" which frankly, is between each invdividual and her doctor. It's about a pervasive, costant, unyeliding societal sense that the most important thing about any woman is her physical appearance. The culture in which we live right now says that no matter what a woman achieves, what a woman believes about herself, who a woman loves and who loves her, how a woman contributes to the world, what a woman has endured or how she has prevailed, she is first and foremost, a visual object to be viewed and judged by others. Every American woman deals with this, every day--even when she's not consiously aware of it. When she puts on make up, when she does her hair, whens she wears high heals. When she self-flagellates about her weight or her laugh lines. When she looks at the clothes in her closet, or asks for a salad with dressing on the side. Think about the most accomplished woman you admire. Line her up against the equivalent man. Her feet hurt. Every. SIngle. Day. For no earthly good reason.
57
It's possible to be free of these preoccupations. My happy independence began to day I stopped consuming advertising through magazines and television, and continues now in the social media era. Being careful and attentive about what we aspire to is important and deserves our thought and time. The rest, especially the idea of continuously working towards or maintaining some kind of standard of beauty, is garbage.
3
Fox News and Roger Ailes has set the standard for women. Many good looking
women, with good looking legs, shirt skirts, even facial features, cosmetically
pure, and usually thirty or under are what the audience sees. Forget women
over 50, over weight, and wrinkles. These young women rule the T.V. world and
set the standards for the rest of the female world.
women, with good looking legs, shirt skirts, even facial features, cosmetically
pure, and usually thirty or under are what the audience sees. Forget women
over 50, over weight, and wrinkles. These young women rule the T.V. world and
set the standards for the rest of the female world.
7
I guess, if you're into bimbos, they set the standard. Thank goodness there's a big wide world out there for those of us who do important work, have thoughtful relationships, and are mainly concerned with whether we're comfortable when selecting what to wear.
2
Totally agree with this article. It's such a waste of good energy focusing merely on weight loss and cutting things out of your diet. What helped me lose weight after having a baby was making time for the things I love to do the most and getting plenty of rest. When I am happy and busy I naturally eat less because I'm focused on other things that make me happy.
6
Too bad plastic surgery doesn't build character.
Jane Fonda still looks like a traitor!
Jane Fonda still looks like a traitor!
8
I am a senior citizen. Back in the day when I was a young man, even the average woman looked pretty good. Some were absolutely spectacular (whether they realized tat or not).
I have no idea why women are so hard on themselves. Quit dressing for other women, and be happy when us guys are impressed with what we see.
I have no idea why women are so hard on themselves. Quit dressing for other women, and be happy when us guys are impressed with what we see.
3
Not to be rude, Joe, but I honestly don't care whether or not you're impressed with my looks. Are you concerned about whether I find you attractive?
4
It was fun to see Ms. Fisher in the movie. I was surprised and slightly saddened by the insecurity apparent in her response to the trolls.
Maybe she wasn't aware that of the whole trolling/celebrity-bashing culture that thrives on the web and on TV. They're best ignored - I wasn't even aware of the comments about her weight until articles like this one started making a big deal about it.
Maybe she wasn't aware that of the whole trolling/celebrity-bashing culture that thrives on the web and on TV. They're best ignored - I wasn't even aware of the comments about her weight until articles like this one started making a big deal about it.
6
Don't blame men!!! It's WOMEN who pressure other women to look artificially younger, which doesn't work. The truth is that most men would rather have women who look natural - we aren't expecting a 50-year-old to do her best at looking 25.
5
When I was in my early twenties, still quite thin (thin enough to front bands), and considered generally attractive, I lived with a guy who eventually offered to buy me a new set of hooters, because mine were too droopy and didn't live up to the Playboy magazine standard he felt he deserved. So tell me again how its women who've tried to rob me of my self esteem.
23
How about we stop judging other people? Huh? Geez, the only one we can do anything about is ourselves, and yet we love to spend time on other people. Why do women have to measure up to someone else's vision of who they should be? I suggest taking a good look in the mirror and decide who we really want to be. Everything else will fall into place.
7
You write about the "major duty in life--looking good for men." But you have it wrong. Women look good for women. In my fifties, I worried this Christmas how I looked to my sisters-in-law and at New Years to my female friends. Yes, one wants to look good for men, but I think most of us are far more concerned with how other women will view us.
17
l appreciate that I am getting older. I respect my age. I appreciate the changes in my body and I keep the process simple and natural. I feel old age is a gift that many may not experience. That's life.
16
Being overweight is unhealthy - it’s settled science. It’s the reason Michelle Obama has taken on childhood nutrition as her signature project. It’s the reason Oprah has taken on adult eating habits as her pet project. I applaud these two women for bringing the conversation to the fore.
1
And being overweight can be an unfortunate result of medication and physical condition. You would look at me and think, hey, look at that stupid fat woman who's clearly lazy and doesn't care enough about herself to be healthy. What you don't see is the steroid I have to take every day to keep my autoimmune disease from killing me, which has the side effect of greatly increased hunger. Nor can you see the arthritis that invades every joint in my body, making even mild exercise painful and difficult. Also hidden is the muscle fatigue that some days makes just standing up challenging. But none of that is really important, because it's still a matter of my lack of willpower, right? Yeah, walk a mile in my shoes, then tell me how easy it is to keep the weight off.
12
There are some studies which indicate that the slighhty overweight have a longer life expectancy than those lower on the bmi scale. Thinness can be genetic and healthy, but is also associated with --a result of--various illnesses and cancers. Those who carry a small cushion might be better prepared to withstand such illnesses. Body weight is a very different concept when one is in one's twenties (and needs to attract a mate) than in one's sixties (thoughts turn to optimizing survival).
5
It is so easy to tell everyone else how to spend their money, isn't it, Ms. Weiner? According to you, we should stop worrying about how we look, and all of the money that we now allocate to fixing ourselves should be donated to the needy. Right. I see in your photo that you wear makeup, and that you occasionally get your hair done. I'm guessing that you even have color on those locks. How much do you spend on cosmetics and beauty routines every year? Are you willing to let yourself go fully natural, and donate the vanity money you save? Hmm. So what is the difference between the primping you do and the injections, fillers, or even surgeries that other women (and plenty of men) get to alter their looks? What people do with their bodies is their business. Oprah is pushing WW because she loves making money. But there is nothing evil about WW's mission. I know people who lost weight and have kept it off for decades after going through the original WW programs. They sought to lose weight because they wanted to be slimmer: specific reasons for reducing don't matter. Carrie Fisher is fabulous no matter what her size, but she was for a time -- by her own admission -- much larger than was healthy. I'm glad she got to a healthier weight because I want her to be with us for a long time. What I do to fight decrepitude I do to make myself feel better, full stop. It is none of your business how I spend my money or time. What I am saying, Ms. Weiner, is how dare you? Who made you God?
2
Try not caring what other people say about you. I stopped a long time ago. It's very liberating.
10
Trying to stop aging is like trying to hold onto water. Regarding looking "thin": at my age it is either more wrinkles or a few extra pounds. I'll go for the latter. Eat healthy, take walks, dance around and set a calorie limit. It takes practice but it can be done.
2
I like and agree with everything in this article except for one statement. "...a point at which [women] were no longer expected to perform what sometimes feels lie a woman's major duty in life---looking good for men."
You don't do this just for us, if at all. So much of what you do to look better, we don't even notice. We don't care about your shoes, all your clothes, and least of all your nails which you seem to need to do religiously.
The major duty here, if there is one, is to avoid the scorn of other women.
You don't do this just for us, if at all. So much of what you do to look better, we don't even notice. We don't care about your shoes, all your clothes, and least of all your nails which you seem to need to do religiously.
The major duty here, if there is one, is to avoid the scorn of other women.
4
No, I won't sport a bikini anymore as I reach age 65 next week. But, I have exercised and eaten wisely my entire adult life and am slim and wear a size 2-4. I can rock a black leather skirt and booties as well as skinny jeans and a tank top. I feel decades younger than my age and dance to "Uptown Funk" with my 4 year old granddaughter. Age is just a number and I intend to live the rest of my life fully, and healthfully as I currently do I don't need to apologize to anyone for looking good, for any age: I've earned it!
5
Good for you salzy, but I'd ascribe a lot of your success to winning the genetic lottery--up to and including the discipline you exercise in terms of diet and physical activity. Am I really saying that character is a matter of good genes? No. That would be over-stating the case. But the interplay between nature and nurture begins with nature, with a roll of the dice. I could actually admire you more if you granted some large portion of your wonderful life to dumb good luck rather than trying to take credit for it the way that you do. You sound rather like Donald Trump patting himself on the back for his business acumen and successes without acknowledging that he inherited great wealth as well as the requisite mind, cunning, and appetite for cutting deals.
2
omg THANK YOU for this piece!! he amount of time I have spent obsessing over "the last 8 pounds" of baby weight is embarrassing. I'm a 37 year old wife, mother of a toddler and full time graduate student about to embark on a new career where my looks matter less after a successful one where my looks mattered a LOT. mostly though, I identify as a size 6 with a closet full of size 4 clothes. can't we get a break ????
3
Who are you looking to give you a break? Anne Lamott is right, it's an inside job. Be a great mom. Be good at your work. Enjoy your looks but don't let them rule you.
1
Julie, forget about identifying with a sizes! You know as well as I do that sizes are mostly a ploy by clothing manufacturers to make women feel good (vanity sizing) or feel bad. I wear anything from a size 6 to a size 10 depending on the manufacturer. Rather if you must, go by actual measurements instead.
One of the best pieces of advice I've ever read about dressing came from a well-known supermodel/ stylist -- she said to always bring 3 sizes you think you fit into the fitting room with you, then forgot the actual size numbers. Instead, look at how the clothes feel and hang on you instead. That's what counts.
And of course, you already know that you have so many better things to identify as -- wife, mom, a student, etc....
One of the best pieces of advice I've ever read about dressing came from a well-known supermodel/ stylist -- she said to always bring 3 sizes you think you fit into the fitting room with you, then forgot the actual size numbers. Instead, look at how the clothes feel and hang on you instead. That's what counts.
And of course, you already know that you have so many better things to identify as -- wife, mom, a student, etc....
2
I'd love to stop worrying about my appearance. But we live in a youth obsessed culture and there is a clock ticking on anyone in their 40s. It goes off at 50 and bam! No more jobs or opportunities. If doing lots of weights and having the odd discreet injection can give another couple of years before the hammer comes down? I'll do it. I can't afford not to.
And yes, I know how sick that is.
And yes, I know how sick that is.
33
You can stop any time you want, on the understanding that you may lose some perks for (1) not looking perfect; and (2) not looking like you're even TRYING for it. The not trying part bothers other people the most. For women, not wanting to be beautiful is somehow unnatural to many people.
I dropped out early, because despite my mother's compliments, I recognized at adolescence that I am what Jane Austen would describe matter-of-factly as "plain" and nothing short of surgery would change that. And what is wrong with plain? Nothing. I knew I'd need to compensate with brains, skills and creativity to compete in the job market, but that's what I like. I hate makeup and hair salons and gyms.
I came up with a Latin motto for my goal in life: Pulchra non esse sed pulchra facere. "Not to be beautiful, but to bring about beautiful things."
I
I dropped out early, because despite my mother's compliments, I recognized at adolescence that I am what Jane Austen would describe matter-of-factly as "plain" and nothing short of surgery would change that. And what is wrong with plain? Nothing. I knew I'd need to compensate with brains, skills and creativity to compete in the job market, but that's what I like. I hate makeup and hair salons and gyms.
I came up with a Latin motto for my goal in life: Pulchra non esse sed pulchra facere. "Not to be beautiful, but to bring about beautiful things."
I
158
Like this motto. I am only concerned about my weight as it concerns my health, and when I changed a diabetes med, I lost 40 pounds. Stopped my knees from hurting and gets me back to gardening. Now THERE is a way to create beautiful things, and most gardeners I know care more about the flowers than how you look!!
6
Glorification of youthfulness, with its equation to beauty and health, is the dominant cultural norm that we ALL embrace, with the difference only in the extent to which we embrace and practice it. That is, we all are implicitly susceptible to and participate in cultural perpetuation of the aesthetic beauty standards that also happen to be more heavily weighed against women rather than men. The Carrie Fischer episode is just another manifestation of this état de choses. To really change this particular belief system so that we don't judge ANYONE, not just celebrities, through the "physical look" lens, is a very tall order, especially given that it's rooted in almost two millennia of Western cultural tradition and intellectual thought.
18
"Reading into the absences, you could make out a finish line, a point at which you were no longer expected to perform what sometimes feels like a woman’s major duty in life — looking good for men."
Women having to look "good" has very little to do with men and much more to do with women. It is women who are critiquing other women and using criteria such as skin regimen, wardrobe choices, exercise routines and general wellbeing to evaluate each other with. Men could care less about those barre classes, the facialist you're seeing or what shoes you're wearing.
This competition is between women, and it's disgusting. We have to stop feeling threatened by each other and subscribing to these notions that these magazines keep putting forward about what is ideal.
Women having to look "good" has very little to do with men and much more to do with women. It is women who are critiquing other women and using criteria such as skin regimen, wardrobe choices, exercise routines and general wellbeing to evaluate each other with. Men could care less about those barre classes, the facialist you're seeing or what shoes you're wearing.
This competition is between women, and it's disgusting. We have to stop feeling threatened by each other and subscribing to these notions that these magazines keep putting forward about what is ideal.
52
Thank you Alex, for writing this.
Your piece deserves a lot more recommendations than it currently has. (At least the Times people chose it.)
And you are a thousand percent right--most heterosexual males could care less about the standards of perfection that tyrannize women from the pages of magazines. Most of these standards are promulgated by other women--it's a form of social control, of shaming, of getting the edge in whatever competition for attention (not always heterosexual male attention) is ongoing.
(I do say "most" heterosexual males--there are exceptions, and often these exceptions have far too much money and public influence. See: Trump, Donald.)
Your piece deserves a lot more recommendations than it currently has. (At least the Times people chose it.)
And you are a thousand percent right--most heterosexual males could care less about the standards of perfection that tyrannize women from the pages of magazines. Most of these standards are promulgated by other women--it's a form of social control, of shaming, of getting the edge in whatever competition for attention (not always heterosexual male attention) is ongoing.
(I do say "most" heterosexual males--there are exceptions, and often these exceptions have far too much money and public influence. See: Trump, Donald.)
2
Van Moorison hit the nail on the head 50 years ago, "All the girls walk by dressed up for each other, while the boys do the boogie woogie on the corner of the street."
2
I can relate. My husband and I are professional musicians and at 61 my voice hasn’t lost much of its firepower, my face hasn’t wrinkled too terribly, and my hands still know their way around the keyboard, but my body has decided that it’s time to reveal the short, stout Dutch woman shape I inherited from my mother’s side of the family. Still, I have to compete for work with sweet young things who haven’t had anything to eat since they were 16, wear cute, trendy, uncomfortable shoes and stretchy pants that reveal perfect little tushies with no cellulite at all. Women aren't allowed to age unless they're baking cookies. Men my age and older have no problems finding work. The more wrinkled they look and the whiter their beards, the more people think they must be “experienced.” Many of the women musicians who I grew up trying to be like are still out touring and recording. I don’t want to quit yet, I’m just not ready, but it’s getting harder all the time.
11
Bravo, Jennifer Weiner. Bravo.
1
I don't agree at all with your accolades, but it should be "Brava."
1
The age when women should stop trying to look perfect is age 10. Then they can avoid the whole set of capitalist enterprises that take their money and make them feel bad about themselves. Then women can be who they really are. I learned that 55 years ago.
4
For starters the average person's option of "Stars" has nothing to do with truth, just ask the "Stars." They are admired, loathed or both. It is a business and it is not always fun.
So what about the way we judge each other? Probably not fair ether. There are different levels too. Plenty of men stop trying or never tried. So for the men who do look nice and try there are often plenty of suitor's giving these males the advantage. Men can be crass, insensitive, etc about female appearance. If these are "prized" men, women will look the other way or grumble to other's, but often not to him until he looses his shine. He is then shocked because she never mentioned it early in their relationship, so he thinks she is just bitter and dismisses her. We should ignore these men, but they can look pretty good on the outside.
But women often judge each other the most. I will leave that to smart women to analyze why that is often true.
So what about the way we judge each other? Probably not fair ether. There are different levels too. Plenty of men stop trying or never tried. So for the men who do look nice and try there are often plenty of suitor's giving these males the advantage. Men can be crass, insensitive, etc about female appearance. If these are "prized" men, women will look the other way or grumble to other's, but often not to him until he looses his shine. He is then shocked because she never mentioned it early in their relationship, so he thinks she is just bitter and dismisses her. We should ignore these men, but they can look pretty good on the outside.
But women often judge each other the most. I will leave that to smart women to analyze why that is often true.
When the media stops torturing them - Mentally.
4
If you are listening to internet commentators about actors and actresses in a movie, I think that is a waste of time.
And quite true that being obsessed with appearance is unhealthy mentally, and can be physically unhealthy when taken to extremes.
But to be frank, the vast majority of overweight people are there for no other reason than their own neglect. Obesity outpaces anorexia as a national medical problem by several orders of magnitude, and even more so when measured in financial cost.
It is not all about appearance. A partner looking good for you shows that she cares. Cares about herself enough to take care, and about you enough to show love by her appearance.
You cannot change biology. In virtually every corner of the globe, for as long as we have history, men like thin women. Yes, there are exceptions when you are living in dire poverty and starving to death is fact of life, your priorities might change to value somebody with more of a buffer. But otherwise, it is nearly universal.
And quite true that being obsessed with appearance is unhealthy mentally, and can be physically unhealthy when taken to extremes.
But to be frank, the vast majority of overweight people are there for no other reason than their own neglect. Obesity outpaces anorexia as a national medical problem by several orders of magnitude, and even more so when measured in financial cost.
It is not all about appearance. A partner looking good for you shows that she cares. Cares about herself enough to take care, and about you enough to show love by her appearance.
You cannot change biology. In virtually every corner of the globe, for as long as we have history, men like thin women. Yes, there are exceptions when you are living in dire poverty and starving to death is fact of life, your priorities might change to value somebody with more of a buffer. But otherwise, it is nearly universal.
3
Can we turn the tables here? Does the same apply to men? Do we expect a man to keep trim and "looking good" because it shows HE cares? Do we expect a man who isn't trim or shows his age to feel mortified and castigate himself over both his failure to meet the bodily standard and show his partner he cares?
4
Actually, you simply are incorrect, both about history, and different cultures.
Sorry, buddy, but this--"But to be frank, the vast majority of overweight people are there for no other reason than their own neglect."--is nothing but the ill-informed and harmful perspective of someone I'd be tempted to label as a "sanctimonious twit" if this was the only thing you had to say, though the rest of your comment isn't much better in the enlightenment department. At any rate, obesity is way more complicated an issue than you assert. It's complicated in every conceivable way, biologically, socially, and psychologically. Please get down off your high horse and show some mature humanity rather than this putative "frankness."
4
If Oprah wanted to be thin, she would be thin. She made herself into one of the most famous people in the world minus having exceptional connections, a bankroll, and a thin blonde bod. Dropping pounds, presumably, would be within her abilities. By the way - she looks fine to me just as she is...
Today, she has to do something to stay relevant --and what better way to connect with her girls than to debate weight loss tactics. It's all fake. But she just made $70 million bucks since buying a part of the company. She would do well to talk to us about that plan and strategies for making yourself financially independent versus suggesting we drop the pop tarts.
Today, she has to do something to stay relevant --and what better way to connect with her girls than to debate weight loss tactics. It's all fake. But she just made $70 million bucks since buying a part of the company. She would do well to talk to us about that plan and strategies for making yourself financially independent versus suggesting we drop the pop tarts.
38
One way to become financially independent is to have no children...like Oprah, 'cuz one gets a lot more work done and has fewer responsibilities to people dependent upon us for their entire well-being. And no, I'm not denigrating motherhood, simply saying it interferes in most cases with professional advancement and financial success.
1
It is so sad that Oprah never learned that weight is not an important issue. I was liberated from all of that by two wonderful women, Carol Munter and Jane Hirshman who wrote "Overcoming Overeating" in the late 1980s. The book is counter intuitive. It is NOT a diet book, but (as the subtitle says) teaches one to "live free in a world of food." It is a process, which involves giving up the fantasies of being "thin" (so many, though they are never thin for long, cannot see that reality and let it go). The book (there is also a sequel) changed my life. I do not weigh myself - I have not owned a scale in decades (scales are "instruments of judgement"), but get weighed yearly at the doc's. I have long since grown comfortable keeping all foods in my home.
Please, if you are exhausted riding the merry-go-round of diets, food struggles, weight obsession and other craziness, check it out: http://www.overcomingovereating.com/
Please, if you are exhausted riding the merry-go-round of diets, food struggles, weight obsession and other craziness, check it out: http://www.overcomingovereating.com/
4
Obesity is a huge public health problem, not just an individual choice.
The financial costs to all of us are staggering. Fat acceptance may feel good emotionally but healthwise and economically it drags us all down.
The financial costs to all of us are staggering. Fat acceptance may feel good emotionally but healthwise and economically it drags us all down.
1
There's a significant difference between being model thin, which many women believe they're supposed to aspire to, and being obese. The average overweight woman is not unhealthy, just plump.
I stopped trying to look perfect in my early 20s, after 10 years of having a bossy older sister, who read those magazines religiously, tear apart every fashion and makeup choice I made.
She always dictate what I MUST and MUST NOT do. "You can't wear stripes! They may your waist look fat! You should wear solid black instead! Your eyes are small! You must wear mascara, and it must be applied in exactly this way! Your cheekbones are too low! You must wear blush, and it must be this color and applied in exactly this way! You're too short to wear long skirts! Your hair looks ridiculous up like that - you look best with a classic bob." On, and on, and on she'd go.
Growing up with a bossy fashionista took any pleasure I might have gotten from my appearance, but the constant critiques of my height, bone structure, etc - things I had utterly no control over - made me realize, at a young age, that I would never look perfect.
I'm in my 50s now. I haven't worn makeup in 30 years. I have a simple hairstyle that is easy to maintain. I view clothes as "gear" - I have a color scheme (not black) that works for me, I wear what is appropriate and expected for the occasion, and I don't let any of this bullying cr*p about appearance affect my self esteem.
Oh, and I read this comment to my husband, who laughed and said "I think you should also mention that you're married."
She always dictate what I MUST and MUST NOT do. "You can't wear stripes! They may your waist look fat! You should wear solid black instead! Your eyes are small! You must wear mascara, and it must be applied in exactly this way! Your cheekbones are too low! You must wear blush, and it must be this color and applied in exactly this way! You're too short to wear long skirts! Your hair looks ridiculous up like that - you look best with a classic bob." On, and on, and on she'd go.
Growing up with a bossy fashionista took any pleasure I might have gotten from my appearance, but the constant critiques of my height, bone structure, etc - things I had utterly no control over - made me realize, at a young age, that I would never look perfect.
I'm in my 50s now. I haven't worn makeup in 30 years. I have a simple hairstyle that is easy to maintain. I view clothes as "gear" - I have a color scheme (not black) that works for me, I wear what is appropriate and expected for the occasion, and I don't let any of this bullying cr*p about appearance affect my self esteem.
Oh, and I read this comment to my husband, who laughed and said "I think you should also mention that you're married."
24
There is a vast multi-billion dollar industry devoted to female vanity, is there not? Lotions, potions, creams, surgeries, hair, clothes, makeup, scents, jewelry, 'women's magazines,' ad infinitum. And it is a surprise that women are obsessed with their physical appearance? Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the consumers of this vast array of goods and services women? Aren't these women free to say "nein, danke" and spend their time, money and resources elsewhere?
One other small point - do you really believe the quest for physical perfection, and the deningration of imperfection, is restricted to the female of the species; or that most women, any more than most men, are inclined to look very far beyond superficial physical attributes in judging other people of either sex? I'd beg to differ on that one, if that is what you believe.
Trust me, if that dumpy, boorish loudmouth with the carrot colored raccoon perched on his head did not happen to control billions in real estate and licensing rights, there would not be a young female model hanging on his arm. And but for a very few, billions are not in the cards.
One other small point - do you really believe the quest for physical perfection, and the deningration of imperfection, is restricted to the female of the species; or that most women, any more than most men, are inclined to look very far beyond superficial physical attributes in judging other people of either sex? I'd beg to differ on that one, if that is what you believe.
Trust me, if that dumpy, boorish loudmouth with the carrot colored raccoon perched on his head did not happen to control billions in real estate and licensing rights, there would not be a young female model hanging on his arm. And but for a very few, billions are not in the cards.
15
Men purchase plenty of beauty products, lotions and potions. They also get Botox injections, injectable fillers, laser and topical facials, dermabrasion, hair removal, manicures and pedicures, implants, plastic surgery, cosmetic dentistry, hair color and other services. And on and on. Get real.
3
I'm a married woman so maybe my mental habits are different from yours for that reason. In my daily encounters with a variety of people, men and women, their attractiveness is not at or near the top of my list for evaluating them. Are they kind? Are they useful?
Who cares what they look like?
Who cares what they look like?
2
While checking out at the supermarket one can see the fabulous and over 50 bodies, makeovers etc. on the covers of magazines and tabloids. Recently I saw one with an obviously photo shopped cover of an 18 year old bikini clad body with Christie Brinkley's head pasted on. It said something about her being 61 and rocking it in a bikini. ugh.
5
Well said, as always, Jennifer! I was just talking about this to my fiancé yesterday. I spent most of my teens and 20 on the verge of an eating disorder, then married, had kids and divorced in my 30s, always working out, even becoming a trainer/group ex instructor on the side of my full time job. I still work out many times a week because I love the way it feels and yes, also, how it makes me look, but I am finally being KINDER to myself. I don't fret over every bite or missed workout. Like you said, I can look at old pictures and say, wow! Look at me! And accept my body for the healthy, functional body that it is. I am grateful for it (after a melanoma scare, especially), and 5 more pounds in my late 40s won't change that.
3
As a fellow bipolar, I respect Carrie Fischer and what she's been through. But I don't really want to listen to her complaints about sexism and lookism after she did those Jenny Craig commercials. Did she really need money all that bad? She's a smart woman; surely she sees the irony in all of this.
Same for Oprah. She has enough money to buy everybody a Weight Watchers membership for their entire life but she feels compelled to make more money by feigning solidarity with fat women who can't hire personal chefs and trainers like she can. She is very influential to a lot of women so this latest gig strikes me as gross and predatory.
To me, this isn't about body image and aging. This is about celebrities who are trying to stay relevant and rich.
Same for Oprah. She has enough money to buy everybody a Weight Watchers membership for their entire life but she feels compelled to make more money by feigning solidarity with fat women who can't hire personal chefs and trainers like she can. She is very influential to a lot of women so this latest gig strikes me as gross and predatory.
To me, this isn't about body image and aging. This is about celebrities who are trying to stay relevant and rich.
77
Most men view their bodies as a tool to use; most women view their bodies as objects.
37
And most men view women as objects. Funny how that works.
10
...and how do men and women view each other?
Turning 50 was like taking my bra off after a long day’s work. “Ahhhhhh…” is the sound that every bone, pore, wrinkle and fat cell in my body made when the calendar flipped to the next half-century mark. My filtering system - that once stood guard - had dropped its walls and had allowed me a freedom of expression I never dreamed of having in my 20s, 30s or 40s. Suddenly, I just didn’t care. I realized that my days of fluffing my feathers for the opposite sex were over. Granted, I’m married. But I think even as married women we still feel like we’d like to be attractive to the opposite sex. Though I put on a little lipstick before walking out the door, and flat-iron my hair – the reason for doing so is completely different. I’m doing it now for ME. My goals and priorities have shifted. I’m focused on my inner-self. My eyes are set on filling my life with things of importance before my time here is finished: family, friends, life experiences, love. I had a book published this year and am working on my next project. Nothing within view in my windshield has anything to do with the way I look. And it’s SO FREEING. Perhaps if we all put down our judgey sticks and concentrated more on our dreams and goals - and less about what Oprah’s scale says or what Carrie Fisher’s mirror is showing her - we’d all be more content. I think both of these women have earned the right to finally let out an, “Ahhhhhh,” as well.
10
When can women stop trying to look perfect?
Last summer. That is when I can stop trying. I was getting dressed for a museum function and complaining about various choices of outfits.( the usual do I look fat, old or the worst of all, frumpy) My impatient friend looked up from her wine long enough to say "It doesn't matter no one is looking at us anyways."
While at first that felt a tad harsh, I have since decided it has freed me from a lot of stress. While I haven't completely stopped trying, comfortable is perfectly acceptable now. No one is really looking.
Last summer. That is when I can stop trying. I was getting dressed for a museum function and complaining about various choices of outfits.( the usual do I look fat, old or the worst of all, frumpy) My impatient friend looked up from her wine long enough to say "It doesn't matter no one is looking at us anyways."
While at first that felt a tad harsh, I have since decided it has freed me from a lot of stress. While I haven't completely stopped trying, comfortable is perfectly acceptable now. No one is really looking.
30
This sums up a high percentage of men's strategy. No strategy is perfect, but this is easier.
3
I feel several issues are conflated here; yes, we have a society which values superficial things such as appearance and youth, particularly in women. That is undeniable and worth discussing. On the other hand we have what I feel is a public health emergency (NOT an individual moral failure) with the food environment and lifestyle many Americans find themselves in. Forget about Star Wars- just take a look at footage of people walking down the streets in the 70s and 80s- we have become an obese nation in just a few decades. No, that does not define us, but it does harm us all and we need to address it for what it is, a public health problem. The same can be said for addiction.
10
I completely agree that the snarkiness and downright cruelty hurled Fisher's way was offensive. I also agree women should be allowed to age naturally.
At the same time, I've appreciated that my 76-year-old mother dropped eight pounds and now looks perfect. She's always been on the slender side, but wasn't really trim in recent years. I gained a lot of weight when I slid into menopause early, and haven't been thin in about six or seven years.
It makes me happy to see Mom turn heads, and more importantly, know that she won't die from obesity-related illnesses. She's had a heart issue, and my own heart feels heartened to know she's doing everything she can to be healthy.
My dad has also kept his weight down and goes to the gym regularly, similarly making me happy as I want him around a long, long time.
We definitely need to stop obsessing over perfection, but promoting good looks and good health is not a bad thing. I prefer looking at pictures of myself a bit thinner, even though I know my true worth is deeper than that.
At the same time, I've appreciated that my 76-year-old mother dropped eight pounds and now looks perfect. She's always been on the slender side, but wasn't really trim in recent years. I gained a lot of weight when I slid into menopause early, and haven't been thin in about six or seven years.
It makes me happy to see Mom turn heads, and more importantly, know that she won't die from obesity-related illnesses. She's had a heart issue, and my own heart feels heartened to know she's doing everything she can to be healthy.
My dad has also kept his weight down and goes to the gym regularly, similarly making me happy as I want him around a long, long time.
We definitely need to stop obsessing over perfection, but promoting good looks and good health is not a bad thing. I prefer looking at pictures of myself a bit thinner, even though I know my true worth is deeper than that.
63
Once again, conflating thinner with healthier even in an already-thon person. Newsflash, if your MIL only needed to lose a few pounds to turn heads, she probably was not on her deathbed to begin with. The fact that she has to turn heads in order for you to feel good about her saya more about you than her.
9
Your 76 year old mother lost 8 pounds and now looks "perfect"?? 8 pounds? Your standards of perfection seem quite high, as well as narrow.
2
I liked your column. I am now in my mid 50's and weight has creeped up. I was always naturally pretty petite, so now I have to make more efforts to try to control my weight. But it is not easy, even with watching what I eat and exercising. The body naturally wants to put on weight as we age. My fellow hospice nurses and I think it can be somewhat protective. But I am still unhappy about how I look. Of course extreme weight gains are dangerous, but natural, small weight gains as we age are not. This has been proven scientifically looking at BMI. The longest lived are in the overweight category. But our culture is now all about shaming. And boy, do people feel ashamed if they weigh more than they used to. And even with all of her success and money, Oprah still feels ashamed. And that is the problem. It is a culture of mean. Even women I know who are mildly overweight, but are healthy, smart and look great, feel ashamed about their weight. We should not have to continually apologize for living up to a standard that is not based in reality.
62
I'm all for exercise as a way of life no matter age, and I enjoy looking my best. In fact, I think with age you start to master what suits you best and as a result you can look the best ever. What worries me though, are all of the procedures to plump skin and erase the normal signs of healthy aging. I want to age gracefully and don't want to be held to fake standards, where laugh lines and facial expressions no longer exist. I'm disappointed to see women like Cindy Crawford go for plastic surgery instead of being an example of graceful aging. I want role models, not mannequins. TIME recently had a feature on plastic surgery and how it will soon be the norm, that will make me the exception. I hope it isn't a painful one.
109
I like what you said. Feeling good about one's self is important, and we are bombarded with images showing us how we can look younger, prettier, and thinner. I stopped wearing make-up at age 50, determined to just be me. Yes, I have a thin body, but it's because of genes and the fact that I eat breakfast lunch and dinner and make time to enjoy my exercise of swimming. I'm accepting that I am aging, now 63, and hope I can continue to enjoy my journey of life.
I wish we'd just leave each other alone. Why do we spend so much time reviewing the looks and lives of other people? Why do we care so much about people we don't even know? It makes no sense. I have all I can do to keep my own life in line without thinking about how Carrie Fisher looks. For Pete's sake.
30
They do not really care, it is a sport and they fill there excess time.
1
Anybody who uses Oprah Winfrey as their weight loss guru should have their head examined.
I was a teacher back in the late 80s, and used to watch Oprah when I got home from school.
Oprah's kneejerk & zealous hopping on all types of self-help bandwagons got old REALLY quick.
A stunning lack of critical thinking.
Enter Dr. Phil - stage left.
Dr. Oz - stage right.
And all the other quasi-snake oil salespeople she's championed over the years.
I remember her rolling out that ridiculous wagon full of fat.
It's just sad that so many women take her seriously.
I was a teacher back in the late 80s, and used to watch Oprah when I got home from school.
Oprah's kneejerk & zealous hopping on all types of self-help bandwagons got old REALLY quick.
A stunning lack of critical thinking.
Enter Dr. Phil - stage left.
Dr. Oz - stage right.
And all the other quasi-snake oil salespeople she's championed over the years.
I remember her rolling out that ridiculous wagon full of fat.
It's just sad that so many women take her seriously.
150
Yes, Oprah has some good stuff now an then, but also a lot of harmful nonsense like you stated. By now we all should be dubious of any sort of health-related advice. In addition to your list she gave Jenny McCarthy a platform for anti-science anti-vax views and instead of holding her feet to the fire, she called her "a warrior." Now we have the return of measles, whooping cough, and other horrible preventable diseases.
5
I agree, especially about Oz and Phil. I am no Oprah fan. But I will give her credit for getting people to buy books and read them. Good books, for the most part, and in some cases true literature. She made some major goofs (a certain it-happened-to-me author who fabricated his entire story), and raised a few hackles (Franzen, as I remember), but she made reading fashionable. For that she deserves a round of applause.
1
Having watched Oprah over the years, she is the perfect example of 'Do as I say, not as I do'. She, like so many people has a serious food addiction, or wrong-food addiction. Plus a too-much food addiction. I'm 73, 5'5" weigh 132 lbs, eat right, get a lot of exercise. When I see women in their 20's huffing and wheezing around in their swollen bodies I am aghast. I wonder if they have any idea how bad their health will be in another ten years.
1
When will Ms. Weiner stop blaming men for the conundrum she and other women find themselves in? While she may be, in part, "looking good for men," I am quite sure that the first and primary source of her anxiety and anger are the arch looks and cutting comments of other women. Not usually found on the bullhorn of social media, but the glimpse across the room, and the whisper from friend to friend.
On the whole men are quite oblivious to the subtleties of today's fashion, makeup, and hair styles. Women, on the other hand, judge each other mercilessly on a wrong color choice, presence or absence of eyeliner, and the vital question of to curl or not to curl.
In no way do I believe that the male gaze does not influence a woman's choices. But if society is to rectify this issue, we must look at all sources of the critique, not just the easy and comfortable ones.
On the whole men are quite oblivious to the subtleties of today's fashion, makeup, and hair styles. Women, on the other hand, judge each other mercilessly on a wrong color choice, presence or absence of eyeliner, and the vital question of to curl or not to curl.
In no way do I believe that the male gaze does not influence a woman's choices. But if society is to rectify this issue, we must look at all sources of the critique, not just the easy and comfortable ones.
7
Personally, I thought it was very cool that Princess Leia had become General Leia. (As for the constant putting down of women for growing older, simply suggest the oft verbal attracters go with the alternative and drop sooner rather than later. Works for me. :)
1
I'm 57, chubby (not fat), gray hair and wrinkles. I look stunningly my age. And every baby I care for smiles at me. I'm still hot.
49
It's unfortunate the that article degenerated into another "you can be healthy at any size" diatribe. Medical science proves this simply isn't true, and people who promulgate this falsehood do a great public disservice. Obesity is a serious, life-shortening, quality-of-life-killing disease, one that unfortunately afflicts 1/3 of Americans. To so casually dismiss it as this article does is a terrible thing to do.
67
Actually, there is a difference between overweight and obese. Look at volume 309 of Journal of the American Medical Association-JAMA Jan 2 2013. Overweight is healthy than Normal weight, thinness or obesity. "According to the results presented herein, overweight (defined as a BMI of 25-<30) is associated with significantly lower mortality overall relative to the normal weight category with an overall summary HR of 0.94. "
6
Fred,
You're not keeping up. Recent studies have been pulling back from the anti-fat obsession.
You're not keeping up. Recent studies have been pulling back from the anti-fat obsession.
4
Thank you for so cogently expressing my viewpoint and saving me from having to write it. Ms. Weiner serves no one's interests by deliberately confusing two separate issues: one, the natural aging process, and, two, getting fat by eating too much of the wrong foods and exercising two little. Obesity is a serious health problem in America, right up there with drug abuse. Obesity leads to diabetes, hypertension, and all sorts of cardiovascular diseases. The result is a drastic increase in health insurance premiums for everybody. We all pay for the irresponsibility and lack of discipline of fat people. Ms. Weiner's tortured ramblings does not erase that fact.
1
Thank you for the perspective! And for reminding us all "What if" ...we donated, shared, cared, participated. Made more of us in the right ways... Indeed.
2
BRAVO Jennifer Weiner!
5
As long as men remain in control of society they will feel free to objectivize women. Nothing new here,unfortunately.
7
Oh, for goodness' sake. Get a grip. I'm a man and love smart, accomplished women of all sizes, ages and colors. The magazines I see that obsess over babies, marriage and diets fill me with despair. Don't blame me for that pablum or the obsession over looks. It seems painfully obvious that women manage that quite well on their own.
The baby boomer generation is not going to go gently into old age. It's not just women, either. How about all of the men on hikes and bikes?
2
As a middle aged male who has managed to stay thin through diet and exercise, I have long empathized with the pressure our society puts on women with regard to appearance. Two things, however.
First, make no mistake, society puts such pressures on men as well, even if not to the same degree.
Second, in my line of work (academia), I have for decades dealt with women in positions of power who care nothing about the interests or concerns of men. Any empathy I have for the pressures women face in our society must therefore be maintained in spite of so many women who make it so easy to justify caring nothing about the concerns or interests of their gender.
First, make no mistake, society puts such pressures on men as well, even if not to the same degree.
Second, in my line of work (academia), I have for decades dealt with women in positions of power who care nothing about the interests or concerns of men. Any empathy I have for the pressures women face in our society must therefore be maintained in spite of so many women who make it so easy to justify caring nothing about the concerns or interests of their gender.
4
In a long life as well, I've found that women are just people, like men. There are all kinds, and it makes no sense to believe they're all the same or that you should write off your sister, wife or mother and every other woman on earth. You need to see people for who they are, especially if you're going to be in a position of power over women, yourself. You can imagine how they might feel dealing with a man who has already decided to care nothing about them because they happen to be female.
7
Thank you, so much, for mentioning Oprah's most recent "body" image, weight commericials.
I thought that my "I may vomit" thoughts had peaked with all of the erectile dysfinction commercials, which never seem to end, no matter what channel you watch, and are really hard to explain to kids, as well as all of the catheter commercials, which are also hard to explain, even to some adults. and why, all of a sudden, did enough of the population have "urinary leakage" issues leading to the prolifertation of catheter commercials?
But, the recent Oprah commercials, about having your "best body" made me want to throw a brick through my beautiful big TV.
What's the deal? Is this the deal? Oprah doesn't have enough millions or billions of dollars yet, and, after at least 20 years of making money off of her publicizing her weight losses and gains, which, obviously, include some plans that have not exactly worked over the long-term (not that I care how much she weighs, but she's making money off of her weight fluctuations).....she's still trying to make milllions more?
Vomit. And, no apologies for the lack of eloquence.
I thought that my "I may vomit" thoughts had peaked with all of the erectile dysfinction commercials, which never seem to end, no matter what channel you watch, and are really hard to explain to kids, as well as all of the catheter commercials, which are also hard to explain, even to some adults. and why, all of a sudden, did enough of the population have "urinary leakage" issues leading to the prolifertation of catheter commercials?
But, the recent Oprah commercials, about having your "best body" made me want to throw a brick through my beautiful big TV.
What's the deal? Is this the deal? Oprah doesn't have enough millions or billions of dollars yet, and, after at least 20 years of making money off of her publicizing her weight losses and gains, which, obviously, include some plans that have not exactly worked over the long-term (not that I care how much she weighs, but she's making money off of her weight fluctuations).....she's still trying to make milllions more?
Vomit. And, no apologies for the lack of eloquence.
99
Well written but it could be expanded. Our public has been brainwashed into a belief that women must look young forever, whatever it means. The goal, of course, is to convince them to buy myriad of cosmetics and snake oils promising just that. Ads for high fashion clothes feature models that look like starved adolescents, rather than like normal women. Women should boycott products that are advertised only in this manner.
Of course if a woman’s looks have changed because of a medical condition, this should be treated or even better, prevented (such as abnormal posture due to osteoporosis). Normal aging is not an illness: in fact, it may be beautiful. One should not look at one’s age but at the mirror and take good care of oneself. Example: my wife of 53 years is 83, exercises regularly, engages in many intellectual pursuits, eats healthy food, dresses in elegant, classic clothes that never go out of fashion and in my opinion looks as well or better than when we met. I would never change this for any supermodel. In 4 days we will celebrate our wedding anniversary and we drink well-aged wine. Salut!
Of course if a woman’s looks have changed because of a medical condition, this should be treated or even better, prevented (such as abnormal posture due to osteoporosis). Normal aging is not an illness: in fact, it may be beautiful. One should not look at one’s age but at the mirror and take good care of oneself. Example: my wife of 53 years is 83, exercises regularly, engages in many intellectual pursuits, eats healthy food, dresses in elegant, classic clothes that never go out of fashion and in my opinion looks as well or better than when we met. I would never change this for any supermodel. In 4 days we will celebrate our wedding anniversary and we drink well-aged wine. Salut!
114
Congratulations!
5
Brainwashing yes, but it is a market. I absolutely believe that it helps or women would not spend so much time, effort, and money.
Stefan, I read your comment to my husband of three years. Hope we have another 50 like you and your beautiful wife. Thank you. And thanks to Ms. Wiener and the NYT for these astute pieces.
3
As always, Jennifer Weiner says it and says it brilliantly. Her hilarious comments about Oprah's new life as Weight Watchers pitch woman? Hilarious and on the money.
54
My resume for vanity is as follows; I work out 6 days a week doing a combo of weights and yoga and have had amazing results due to hard work and a lot of genetic gifts. My parents are still beautiful and look 20 years younger than their stated age. My beauty queen mother passed her looks to me, I am a doctor, I drive a new BMW and spend stupid amounts of money on clothes. It's not just the women who are trying to be perfect, my 64 year old dad worries about his hairline and ponch but he is overall an amazing specimen as is mom.
The point being that trying to look your best has lots of positive effects not mentioned here. By trying to have big muscles and look better I'm in the best shape of my life, as for the clothes, car and prestigious job? You bet they make me feel good and not in comparison to others who have less success but because I achieved my goals. When one becomes mature you either do these things because you can and want to or you don't.
By the way judgement on physical beauty and youth is only getting much much worse with the advent of social media, what the hell is instagram anyway other than a app where teens and others measure their worth in likes based on their physical appearance, places they go and pretty things they eat. Unfortunately this shallow focus on what is important in life is terrible for young adults who don't realize everything is photoshopped and nobody has it all and those who shame others are often lacking something themselves
The point being that trying to look your best has lots of positive effects not mentioned here. By trying to have big muscles and look better I'm in the best shape of my life, as for the clothes, car and prestigious job? You bet they make me feel good and not in comparison to others who have less success but because I achieved my goals. When one becomes mature you either do these things because you can and want to or you don't.
By the way judgement on physical beauty and youth is only getting much much worse with the advent of social media, what the hell is instagram anyway other than a app where teens and others measure their worth in likes based on their physical appearance, places they go and pretty things they eat. Unfortunately this shallow focus on what is important in life is terrible for young adults who don't realize everything is photoshopped and nobody has it all and those who shame others are often lacking something themselves
15
Kudos for the nod to your good luck ("a lot of genetic gifts") and for not arguing that you're entitled to everything you have or have achieved. I hope your evident enjoyment and gratitude translates into generosity toward others less fortunate; I suspect it does.
Unfortunately the truth, as any doctor will tell you, is that being overweight is unhealthy, and Americans are the most overweight people on earth--a measure perhaps more related to culture than personal slothfulness. Fat people--men and women--do not deserve cruel comments and disrespect, but they only hurt themselves by retreating into victimhood and acceptance of their unhealthy condition.
25
I agree, and yet there is nothing worse than an old skinny person. If they get ill, they have no resistance. A happy medium. please!
7
Max,
What doctors will tell you is that being overweight and exercising regularly is better for you than being naturally skinny, eating like a pig and never exercising. There is also a big difference between overweight and obese as far as health outcomes.
A culture that's obsessed with thinness rather than health also causes other health problems, such as eating disorders. North Americans should focus on health rather than being thin and we'd all be a lot better off.
What doctors will tell you is that being overweight and exercising regularly is better for you than being naturally skinny, eating like a pig and never exercising. There is also a big difference between overweight and obese as far as health outcomes.
A culture that's obsessed with thinness rather than health also causes other health problems, such as eating disorders. North Americans should focus on health rather than being thin and we'd all be a lot better off.
9
True enough, and the obsession with thinness is stupid--not to mention odd in a country where there are so many large people. It is shocking when I come home from extended work overseas and notice all the really obese people in this country.
First of all, I met Carrie Fisher in the mid 90's and she wasn't exactly competing to keep up appearances. That was her choice. She had 'issues' and made bad choices. That does NOT however give people the right to bully her after her latest appearance. In fact, nobody has the right to bully anyone. That goes for bullying models and 'beautiful' people as well. My favorite model is beautiful, she works very hard at keeping herself that way AND she started foundation for unwanted dogs. Lots of beautiful people do wonderful things with their money, while still doing what they need to to stay relevant in the fashion, beauty, or entertainment industry.
"When Can Women Stop Trying to Look Perfect?" When ever they choose! If you chose to throw in the towel then that is your choice.
"But what if, instead of investing in paid diets and microdermabrasion, we donated our dollars to worthy charities and gave our time to the food pantry or elementary school?" No doubt you have spent money on things that weren't absolutely necessary, or that give you a sense of happiness or pleasure. I'm sure your latest LapTop was more of a want than a need. You could have fed a lot of homeless with that couple grand. You could have joined Jenny Craig so you wouldn't have to be so unhappy with yourself that you feel the need to condemn others. I'm plump, and I'm NOT happy with it. My fault. I'm not working to change it either. So I'm not blaming skinny people.
"When Can Women Stop Trying to Look Perfect?" When ever they choose! If you chose to throw in the towel then that is your choice.
"But what if, instead of investing in paid diets and microdermabrasion, we donated our dollars to worthy charities and gave our time to the food pantry or elementary school?" No doubt you have spent money on things that weren't absolutely necessary, or that give you a sense of happiness or pleasure. I'm sure your latest LapTop was more of a want than a need. You could have fed a lot of homeless with that couple grand. You could have joined Jenny Craig so you wouldn't have to be so unhappy with yourself that you feel the need to condemn others. I'm plump, and I'm NOT happy with it. My fault. I'm not working to change it either. So I'm not blaming skinny people.
7
"First of all, I met Carrie Fisher in the mid 90's and she wasn't exactly competing to keep up appearances."
Did you set out to offer an example of exactly what this article is about?
Did you set out to offer an example of exactly what this article is about?
18
Dennis, though you strive to take what you believe to be the high road, saying that Carrie Fisher shouldn't be bullied (hurray!), you remain judgemental and perpetuate that which fuels the ridiculous compulsion our society has to dictate how people should look to be accepted by using phrases like "working hard to keep up appearances", "doing what they need to do to stay relevant...", and "throw in the towel". THAT is the problem.
10
Throwing in the towel? I am not overweight, but self-acceptance is not throwing in the towel. This isn't just about weight. This is about the societal expectation that 60-year-old women look 40 or they become invisible. You can care about yourself and take care of yourself and not be botoxed, a size 4, spending hundreds a year on youth cream, etc...
12
I think the main reason why so many focus on her look in the new movie is because Harrison Ford looks so good and this contrast is fairly stark. He is 13 years older and frankly looks younger than her. It should be reversed, but isn't. I think people focusing on gender miss that point.
Everyone ages, but some people don't help themselves much. Ms. Fisher has a well documented history of smoking, alcohol abuse, drug use (legal and otherwise). Even if that lifestyle doesn't kill you, it leaves a mark and it certainly has on her.
On a side note, not sure Mark Hamill looked that good either, and he was asked to lose weight as well (thank god). It is a business where you are selling your appearance either primarily or at least in part.
Everyone ages, but some people don't help themselves much. Ms. Fisher has a well documented history of smoking, alcohol abuse, drug use (legal and otherwise). Even if that lifestyle doesn't kill you, it leaves a mark and it certainly has on her.
On a side note, not sure Mark Hamill looked that good either, and he was asked to lose weight as well (thank god). It is a business where you are selling your appearance either primarily or at least in part.
13
Men tend to age better then women, partly because women bear children. Being pregnant and giving birth can definitely put a damper on your beauty routine, your health and your time to exercise. While many more young men are stepping up to the parenting plate, I still see real gender gaps. I'm happy that some younger execs who are women can afford lots of help so they can spend as much time away from their families as men used to, but that doesn't bridge the gap in the long run. This man's argument about Ms. Fisher just underscores his lack of insight into the way women are expected to look perfect throughout their lives. I can't tell you how many times people comment about my appearance during a normal day.It's very rare to hear anyone mentioning my husband's looks right off the bat.
5
Harrison Ford looks good? No. Not any more. That is a fantasy. He looks old as would be expected at his age.
10
For crying out loud, Carrie Fisher suffers from bi-polar disorder and has accomplished great things despite the disease. It's no joke and it doesn't do wonders for one's decision-making ability or sense of self worth. Please get down off your high horse and educate yourself before making such spurious and hurtful pronouncements about others. And, no, this is not an apologia for cowering in victimhood, which Ms. Fisher has not done. But victim of some horrendous bad luck she is nonetheless and more power to her for overcoming it to the degree that she has; most sufferers don't.
3
I feel like this article lost its way. Where it started out as a comment about when we can stop paying attention. To our appearances due to age, it ended, as soma my comments do about appearance in this culture on weight. That is just one aspect of appearance and the one that, in my eyes, is the least complex to address. Yes, within our culture people sti think overweight people are bad and immoral and unattractive. But what about the people who are addressing aspects of their appease through their dress, hair, attitude and even what they do to their, neck and hands in order to be taken, by the people around them, just as seriously as they did/were when they were 20 or even 30/35 years younger? When age discrimination is as easy as saying,"That woman....", what chance do women over 45 have of being taken seriously as potential employees, friends and even lovers of people under 40? This is not an issue for men, who can, in the ever seeking eyes of the public, have relationships w women half their age, without too too much moral backlash, it's really impossible for women to do this.
13
We should note that there aren't a lot of seventy-something MALES making the "Sexiest Man in the World" notices, either.
But, gotta say, while Carrie Fisher looks fine for 59, I look a lot better preserved at 60, and I haven't had the benefit of an occasional crank. Then, I'm not bi-polar, I've never been addicted to anything but women and I never had major mother issues. This woman has been through quite a lot beyond being shackled at the feet (?) of Jabba the Hutt.
But, gotta say, while Carrie Fisher looks fine for 59, I look a lot better preserved at 60, and I haven't had the benefit of an occasional crank. Then, I'm not bi-polar, I've never been addicted to anything but women and I never had major mother issues. This woman has been through quite a lot beyond being shackled at the feet (?) of Jabba the Hutt.
10
Jennifer, are you crazy? America, a beauty obsessed culture, at any age! Seems you are tying to play the Mx. Hillary card, a war on women. What does Kim say about this?
2
How about Harrison Ford? Looked like a good match to Carrie Fisher.
2
It's a great column. But, it's impossible. Dieting/binging is a great way to escape from the human condition, and, more specifically, from the inequalities of being a woman. Dieting/binging accomplishes nothing of any worth in the real world, but it is a very effective, legal opiate.
8
Most, if not all, overweight people eat too much. Worked in this area for years - and people eat way too much food way too often. Our plates are piled full and are bigger than they were in the 1920's when folks weren't so obese. I abhor the "normalization" of obesity - being fat is not normal. It's not what you're born into, it's what you do to yourself with your mouth. While diets may put you on a yo-yo the alternative, which can work well, is never popularized: fasting. We are built for feast and famine, not three meals a day and not the carbohydrate dominant foods found everywhere as snacks. No one makes money on fasting. It's considered extreme, yet it can reset your metabolism, decrease inflammation and decrease insulin resistance. But if no one makes money on it....
10
I love intermittent fasting. I got a lot of weight off that way and keep it off that way. It is the easiest way in my opinion.
2
We need to stop conflating obesity with the pressure normal-weight women feel to lose weight. The aesthetic standard promoted by Hollywood and the fashion industry is nowhere near the medical definition of even overweight, much less obesity.
8
Think, act, believe and accept a healthy weight and diet not for how you look to others, but how you feel about yourself in maintaining an independent and quality of life style for as long as your inherited genes allow.
5
Age 8 is a good time to start.
Admittedly, I was even younger than that when I was exposed to stories of the Catholic saints who recognized beauty as a burden. Some cut off their hair, rejected suitors, devoting their lives to something other than attracting a mate. These were the lives I was raised to emulate. Not in some perverse rejection of sexuality and the secular world, but in recognition that there is purpose and meaning to our lives and we must not let that purpose get tossed aside with an obsession over physical appearance.
Within my immediate and extended family were examples of women who did not wear make up or even seem to think much at all about outward appearances. There was work to be done and they did the work: teaching, farming, writing books, raising children or working in nursing homes, factories and government offices.
I'm old now, but see pictures of myself as a child and young woman and I'm blown away at the beauty. I wasn't aware of it in those days and that was a particular gift. No one in my world praised me for an accident of genetics. They commented on my efforts and my achievements. They talked to me about music I was learning, soccer games I was playing and books I was reading. They talked to me about the world I'd inhabit, what I would take from it and what I would give back to it.
Start at a very young age.
Admittedly, I was even younger than that when I was exposed to stories of the Catholic saints who recognized beauty as a burden. Some cut off their hair, rejected suitors, devoting their lives to something other than attracting a mate. These were the lives I was raised to emulate. Not in some perverse rejection of sexuality and the secular world, but in recognition that there is purpose and meaning to our lives and we must not let that purpose get tossed aside with an obsession over physical appearance.
Within my immediate and extended family were examples of women who did not wear make up or even seem to think much at all about outward appearances. There was work to be done and they did the work: teaching, farming, writing books, raising children or working in nursing homes, factories and government offices.
I'm old now, but see pictures of myself as a child and young woman and I'm blown away at the beauty. I wasn't aware of it in those days and that was a particular gift. No one in my world praised me for an accident of genetics. They commented on my efforts and my achievements. They talked to me about music I was learning, soccer games I was playing and books I was reading. They talked to me about the world I'd inhabit, what I would take from it and what I would give back to it.
Start at a very young age.
56
You were lucky. In my opinion, it's generally one's peer group and the culture at large that seems to have the power to undo many of the great influences you were exposed to.
3
As a physician and obesity specialist I find it interesting that Ms. Weiner's editorial begins with beauty and aging and slowly degenerates into a rant about dieting. In my professional world, everything comes down to weight but it seems that this may be true for the world in general...at least the world of women.
I think that the reason we women want to remain attractive is that it is our source of power in the world. In effect, it keeps us in the mainstream and allows us to remain visible. Who wouldn't want to stay in the game? Men, on the other hand, accrue power in other ways, most of which are unaffected by appearance.
I don't see anything wrong with striving to be as attractive as possible as long as we achieve that by being as vital and healthy as we can be. We don't need to be sylphs, but if we are frankly obese it is generally a reflection of long periods of eating foods that our body has put into storage. Those have probably been the wrong foods and carrying their remnants around is not optimal. If losing weight is part of regaining health, why not continue to work on it?
When we see a compelling older woman, it is her vitality, style and engagement with the world which attracts us. Part of that is the sense that she cares for herself both mentally and physically.
www.refusetoregain.com
I think that the reason we women want to remain attractive is that it is our source of power in the world. In effect, it keeps us in the mainstream and allows us to remain visible. Who wouldn't want to stay in the game? Men, on the other hand, accrue power in other ways, most of which are unaffected by appearance.
I don't see anything wrong with striving to be as attractive as possible as long as we achieve that by being as vital and healthy as we can be. We don't need to be sylphs, but if we are frankly obese it is generally a reflection of long periods of eating foods that our body has put into storage. Those have probably been the wrong foods and carrying their remnants around is not optimal. If losing weight is part of regaining health, why not continue to work on it?
When we see a compelling older woman, it is her vitality, style and engagement with the world which attracts us. Part of that is the sense that she cares for herself both mentally and physically.
www.refusetoregain.com
9
You write that you "think that the reason we women want to remain attractive is that it is our source of power in the world. In effect, it keeps us in the mainstream and allows us to remain visible." As a teacher of feminism, as a woman who is trying to educate young women to value themselves for something other than their looks, I find your conflation of women's power and their looks very problematic. It is this same distorted thinking that keeps women prisoners of impossible beauty standards.
This is the same thinking that keeps women reaching for a version of themselves that they have aged out of. What I found so disturbing about Carrie Fisher's performance in Star Wars (besides her acting) was the fact that she couldn't emote effectively because her face couldn't move due to some combination of surgery and Botox. She had no presence anymore.....she was not herself. Why? Because she was trying to be who she was, or, more effectively, she was trying to be HOW SHE ONCE LOOKED.
I find it deeply ironic that Carrie Fisher is angry at people criticizing how she looks when her look is so artificial and distracting. Clearly, she was concerned enough about her looks to get surgery. But she went too far, as many celebrities do. Then she's angry that people call attention to it.
But we can't really blame her, can we? She is a victim of a system that uses "beauty" to keep women out of sight and in their place.
This is the same thinking that keeps women reaching for a version of themselves that they have aged out of. What I found so disturbing about Carrie Fisher's performance in Star Wars (besides her acting) was the fact that she couldn't emote effectively because her face couldn't move due to some combination of surgery and Botox. She had no presence anymore.....she was not herself. Why? Because she was trying to be who she was, or, more effectively, she was trying to be HOW SHE ONCE LOOKED.
I find it deeply ironic that Carrie Fisher is angry at people criticizing how she looks when her look is so artificial and distracting. Clearly, she was concerned enough about her looks to get surgery. But she went too far, as many celebrities do. Then she's angry that people call attention to it.
But we can't really blame her, can we? She is a victim of a system that uses "beauty" to keep women out of sight and in their place.
6
"I think that the reason we women want to remain attractive is that it is our source of power in the world."
This is a truly depressing comment from a physician. A physician's "source of power in the world" is her education, her wisdom, and her professionalism, not her physical attractiveness.
Everything does not come down to weight. Your weight didn't get you into medical school, it didn't get you past the MCATs, and it won't help you diagnose a sick patient or comfort a dying one.
This is a truly depressing comment from a physician. A physician's "source of power in the world" is her education, her wisdom, and her professionalism, not her physical attractiveness.
Everything does not come down to weight. Your weight didn't get you into medical school, it didn't get you past the MCATs, and it won't help you diagnose a sick patient or comfort a dying one.
12
Carrie Fisher's appearance would have drawn more favorable comment if the filmmakers had not dressed her as Heidi, heroine of Johanna Spyri's children's classic. Fisher played a general and world leader. She was dressed as an Earthling Alpine hausfrau from 1935. Christine Lagarde of the IMF could not have pulled off that look. It's a pity that Fisher could not have been dressed by those who did the Hunger Games costumes. Ageism is a true problem in society and Hollywood exacerbates it with its discomforting in depicting strong women.
47
You’re absolutely right! Her hairdo was only marginally better than those donuts over the ears she was stuck with in the first movie. And I kept think that she should have been dressed in something tailored, sharp-edged, military, to reflect her power and role rather than the dowdy costumes she was in. At the very least, they could have given her some sharp looking boots.
7
Being self-congratulatory after losing weight, especially if "weight Watchers" was responsible in the short run, is a bit narcissistic if not crass commercialism, and it may seem petty in the richness and complexity of human nature, and its brief duration on Earth. If you can exercise a minimum of self control insofar eating is concerned, and willing to burn some calories by walking a bit, our body will fall graciously in a certain weight appropriate to our needs. This, in the long run. Inner beauty is what counts, not the plastics or Botox.
5
The answer to your headline question is actually very simple.
When they stop worrying about what other people think of their looks.
Be comfortable in your own skin for who and what you are and you'll be beautiful to anyone who matters to you.
When they stop worrying about what other people think of their looks.
Be comfortable in your own skin for who and what you are and you'll be beautiful to anyone who matters to you.
25
“As a lifelong devotee of fashion and tabloid magazines, I’ve read dozens of “Beautiful/Sexy at Any Age” features.”
With all due respect to the author, if you start your article with this statement, it’s clear where YOUR focus is. Please don’t assume all the ladies are the same. Some could care less about tabloids.
29
Much of what you say is true, but I must defend Weight Watchers. Obesity is a health issue. Weight Watcher's doesn't follow fads. For many people, though not all, following their plan results in slow, steady weight loss. The group I attended 10 years ago overtly discouraged rapid weight loss and eating disorder behaviors. Over the intervening years a few pounds have returned. Because sometimes I eat too much. Mostly my diet is healthier and I regularly exercise. All good and very important.
11
Thank you. I'm adopting that mantra: Make more of myself, not less. And I hope it will help me to make a better contribution to my community.
1
I'm sure I'm an outlier on the NYTimes site, but I think it's fine to talk about Carrie Fisher's appearance. It shocked me, frankly. She looked as old as Harrison Ford who's eleven years older than she is and recently fell out of a plane. The years of drug abuse and struggles with mental illness take a toll --- why can't we simply admit that and discuss it? Why hide behind the false comfort of feminist group think? And, in a nation of the diabetic and obese, what's the harm in Oprah trying to shed a few pounds and start exercising? And let's be honest and acknowledge that men are also harshly assessed, whether it's Marco Rubio's boots or Justin Bieber's package. I say we all relax, including Carrie Fisher. Remember, all publicity is good publicity.
49
There'd be no harm if that's what Oprah was doing privately but she's not. Instead, she using her considerable influence over her vast audience to endorse the notion that women must be thin in order to live their best lives. She deserves the criticism that's being dished out here and elsewhere.
130
Less harsh would be better for all of us. There's plenty of struggle in the world already. Adding specious, judgemental comments about appearance adds to the load. No more, please.
11
"The years of drug abuse and struggles with mental illness take a toll --- why can't we simply admit that and discuss it?"
Do you think the toll it took on her attractiveness is greater than the toll it took on her family, on her psychological well-being?
How much people look like they have, or haven't, aged, is a very personal thing, possibly driven by genetics. I don't think you can read much into how Harrison Ford, who after all is just another of the >300 million people in this country, appears to have aged, and compare that to how you think Fisher should look.
Do you think the toll it took on her attractiveness is greater than the toll it took on her family, on her psychological well-being?
How much people look like they have, or haven't, aged, is a very personal thing, possibly driven by genetics. I don't think you can read much into how Harrison Ford, who after all is just another of the >300 million people in this country, appears to have aged, and compare that to how you think Fisher should look.
9
Ms Weiner, You left out social media. Every day I get to look at yet another selfie of some celeb in which she is bedecked in jewels and tens of thousands of dollars worth of clothing - and- facial injectables. As the months go by their age appears to become younger. It's quite something...I guess time travel does exist (at least in Hollywood photos). I could cite names, but discretion is the better part of valor...
6
Any time they want to.
5
I cannot help but think that if women devoted all the time they spend worrying about looking good to getting smarter and more empowered, we would accomplish great things. All the energy we spend on getting to look a little nicer, which often goes unoticed by people around us is as far as I am concerned a waste. And what kind of message are we sending our daughters? Let's unite on this. I am not meaning we should neglect ourselves, but once a minimum is attained, let's move on to grander causes and leave the ego where it belongs.
22
My friend just said the same thing to me last week. Instead of looking at a break up as loss, consider what you will add in its place. It's such a great perspective.
Aside from including Nordstorm's in the essay (I don't know anyone that willing to throw away income), great article. Glad someone called out Empress Oprah and her new clothes, who should have lost all credibility with women when she ditched Hillary. I support Carrie Fisher and her tweets, but I am sorry that a woman can be bullied publicly - and writers like Smith think its clever to join in. Let's see if Smith can play an equally successful long game. Anyway, hope Fisher knows she is supported. Thanks for the column.
Aside from including Nordstorm's in the essay (I don't know anyone that willing to throw away income), great article. Glad someone called out Empress Oprah and her new clothes, who should have lost all credibility with women when she ditched Hillary. I support Carrie Fisher and her tweets, but I am sorry that a woman can be bullied publicly - and writers like Smith think its clever to join in. Let's see if Smith can play an equally successful long game. Anyway, hope Fisher knows she is supported. Thanks for the column.
10
I have also always wondered why Oprah Winfrey, arguably one of the most influential people in the world, gives a fig about her weight. She of all people has the wealth, the power, the style, the respect to OWN her body type and laugh off anyone who dares compare her to any empty runway naif or ingenue-du-jour.
But it does illustrate how women, even the most powerful and famous, still feel somehow less than if we don't look like a pinup girl.
We gotta change this, ladies.
But it does illustrate how women, even the most powerful and famous, still feel somehow less than if we don't look like a pinup girl.
We gotta change this, ladies.
14
Maybe she cares about her weight because she doesn't want to die prematurely of heart disease. Maybe she cares because she doesn't want to go blind or have a foot amputated from complications of Type II diabetes. Obesity is an awful disease.
7
Guess what? I'm not perfect, my wife isn't perfect, my children aren't perfect, and the readers who will no doubt write in to vaunt their slender virtues aren't, either. It's sickening the meanness that seems to have gotten hold of many people today, whether they sneer at the fat, the poor, the sick, the old, or whatever other group they may have some advantage over in some way. It's getting so when a person dies, you have to be ready to explain that while they had cancer, no they didn't smoke, weren't overweight, exercised, were mentally active and didn't drink to excess, or there will be some ready to opine (or imply) that he or she deserved to die. How about a new program of being kind and decent? How about compassion instead of the current piranha-like chewing on anyone we can find some excuse to scorn? Because this purse-lipped, nasty, self-righteous craze is way past its sell-by date now.
459
There is nothing more to be said than this. Outstanding response.
17
My Mother asked not to have an open casket when she died. She said someone at a funeral criticized the wrinkles on the hands of a loved one who was laid out.
Thanks to all the beauty magazines and Hollywood, women are faulted for aging, like we've let ourselves go if we don't erase the wrinkles.
Thanks to all the beauty magazines and Hollywood, women are faulted for aging, like we've let ourselves go if we don't erase the wrinkles.
6
I think you must know the wrong people, jb. I have never heard anyone speculate about or blame the deceased in the way you mention. I am talking about in real life, not the interwebs.
While I admire Jane Fond, and think she has great style, she has had lots of work done (plastic surgery). It would be so nice if the magazines would focus on women who have not had work done on them.
And just to make it clear, I am a fit, thin, stylish 60 year old woman, and I have not had plastic surgery.
And just to make it clear, I am a fit, thin, stylish 60 year old woman, and I have not had plastic surgery.
56
I suggest looking up some of the many interviews in which Jame Fonda talks about her surgery, and about body image in general. So has stated that her most recent overhaul gave her an extra decade in the industry. And she is spot on there. The woman has remade herself so many times (and it must be said she has made her mistakes), but she is not just one of those people who desperately fight age just for the aesthetics alone (wearing fashionable clothing, getting photographed for the society pages). Her visage is part of her job.
And on that subject, where is the criticism here for all the plastic-faced newscasters we see on air every day? Why are they immune from the judgement I see here?
And on that subject, where is the criticism here for all the plastic-faced newscasters we see on air every day? Why are they immune from the judgement I see here?
2
This is insulting to the many women (and men) who realize that beauty is just like intelligence: a natural gift that needs to be constantly cultivated. There are many examples of creative women who retained beauty, elegance, and grace until death. Fat is not a corollary of age: I weigh less in my late forties than I did in high school, and I'm hardly unique. Nor are wrinkles, bad posture, and grey hair a decree from heaven. Most can be avoided or mitigated. Sure, it requires work. So does thinking. Self-cultivation is an important part of civilized living, and it applies both to body and mind. As for Carrie Fisher: true, she did not age well but neither did the Star Wars franchise.
19
Really, aside from surgery, wrinkles can be avoided? How about medically-induced hair loss, is that to be avoided or "mitigated," too? Clearly it's aesthetic praise you seek, but what I see here is quite ugly.
39
Avoid the sun. Don't smoke. Don't drink or do drugs. It will help :)
5
To Law Feminist: I had hair loss after chemo - glad to say my hair now looks better than ever. As for avoiding wrinkles, I can only endorse the great advice below: use sunscreen, don't smoke, eat vegetables, and drink plenty of water. You'll be surprised at the results.
1
In answer to the explicit question in the headline: whenever they like. Peer pressure only works if you succumb to it. And with all questions like this that revolve around questions of appearance and beauty, each of us has to negotiate the fact that all human beings-- whatever their particular gender-- care about this kind of stuff. In a world filled with real concerns about systemic racism and sexism, this particular issue is a red herring. Everyone suffers (to one extent or another) from the fact that we collectively, as a species, like pretty things.
19
Whenever they like? Funny you should think that. The need to look good IS a form of systemic sexism. It plays out in the real world as discrimination against women of all ages who do not conform to these commercially motivated ideas.
35
Eating right and exercise is all anyone needs to be healthy. Well, that and great genes. At age 50 I decided I was going to slim down and improve myself. I dropped over 20 lbs because I quit eating processed foods, and regular exercise. I own and wear daily my fitbit which keeps me on track with my goals. I never diet. I eat a kind of modified paleo which consists of mostly plants, some meat and dairy,and complex carbs like quinoa, but no bread, cookies, chips, etc. I cook most of my own food, and choose mostly organic or local grown. I've kept off the weight for 5 years now, and plan on following this regimen for the rest of my life. It's called a LIFESTYLE change, and it's hard, but it's worth it.
28
But this article was not asking which diet is the best to be on. Go back and read it; you missed the point.
11
Discussion is not always linear, BG.
2
True. Especially when one has no idea what the discussion is about.
2
The ubiquitous fashion & entertainment industry gains nothing by telling women that what we get as we age is far better than what we loose. They thrive on telling us that if we just spend more money then we'll have love, confidence, self-worth. It never works and we keep on spending. To get those attributes that are not for sale we have to live fully and learn the lessons that life teaches us. There is no question that the tradeoff is well worth it. I thought Ms. Fisher looked terrific. She looked strong, open and confident which also fit her role as a high commander. Let's face it, a 16 year-old model can never possess or communicate those attributes. And, really, who wants to be 16 again, or even 30? Ladies, do as I did and throw your magazines away! You won't regret it.
103
I think a woman can look her best in their mid 30s to early 40s. Especially if she is out in the world, slaying some dragons, building her confidence. When I see some skinny 17 year old modeling grown up clothes, I find it silly. And I found it silly when I was that skinny teenager. Now I find it silly when women in their 50s or heaven forbid their 60s dress like floozies. Yikes-- where is the wisdom?
2
1. If anyone thought Oprah was a selfless angel of hope and support, they deserve the disappointment of finding out she's a business woman.
2. The culture wants everyone. not just older women, to lose weight. You'll find contempt for obese people everywhere in America. If we really thought about it, we'd realize we don't want our mothers, grandmothers, aunts, or ourselves to look as puffy in the face as Madonna or as chiseled in the arms.
3. Carrie Fisher is only getting this flack because she's in the media, the trolls favorite targets. I think she looks great. It's the man who first saw Princess Leia chained at the neck wearing a tiny metal bikini as a teenager who can't possibly imagine her any other way lest she ruins their decades long sexual fantasy.
2. The culture wants everyone. not just older women, to lose weight. You'll find contempt for obese people everywhere in America. If we really thought about it, we'd realize we don't want our mothers, grandmothers, aunts, or ourselves to look as puffy in the face as Madonna or as chiseled in the arms.
3. Carrie Fisher is only getting this flack because she's in the media, the trolls favorite targets. I think she looks great. It's the man who first saw Princess Leia chained at the neck wearing a tiny metal bikini as a teenager who can't possibly imagine her any other way lest she ruins their decades long sexual fantasy.
85
"It's the man who first saw Princess Leia chained at the neck wearing a tiny metal bikini as a teenager who can't possibly imagine her any other way lest she ruins their decades long sexual fantasy."
There. There it is. Some folks act like a woman showing the normal signs of the passage of time is betraying some sort of moral failing.
There. There it is. Some folks act like a woman showing the normal signs of the passage of time is betraying some sort of moral failing.
14
Best thing I've ever read! Nuff' said.
9
I'm 68, don't use makeup or hair dye and diet only to be healthy. But I don't look like my friends.
14
Interesting. I'm curious, do you mean you look better than they do? Or how different? Good for you.
1