Before I hit the message limit, I meant to add the following:
The reality is that Afghan society before the Soviet invasion was an evolving mixture between a complex traditional tribal tapestry and (largely in the cities) more modern innovations, which fostered the emerging emancipation of women as equal members of society. In the larger traditional tribal society, the value of education for women (and, indeed, for everyone) depended partly on individual tribal and family traditions, and partly on Sufic influences that crossed tribal and family boundaries. In fact, the tradition of education among certain tribes and families in Afghanistan goes back centuries. Prior to the Soviet invasion and civil war that followed, Kabul University was, itself, an advanced institution of higher education, where both men and women from all over Afghanistan came to study.
True, there was certainly a prevailing conservative strain in Afghan tribal society, but the values of learning and deep insight into human behavior were an ever-present feature running through the culture, despite the imperfections that mark any human society. Certainly, the brutal and violent behavior noted here and that we witness today in Afghanistan was no more a part of traditional Afghan culture than in many earlier Western societies. Criminal and sociopathic behavior is part of every society. Traditional tribal relations often did as much to control it in Afghanistan as more modern systems of justice elsewhere.
The reality is that Afghan society before the Soviet invasion was an evolving mixture between a complex traditional tribal tapestry and (largely in the cities) more modern innovations, which fostered the emerging emancipation of women as equal members of society. In the larger traditional tribal society, the value of education for women (and, indeed, for everyone) depended partly on individual tribal and family traditions, and partly on Sufic influences that crossed tribal and family boundaries. In fact, the tradition of education among certain tribes and families in Afghanistan goes back centuries. Prior to the Soviet invasion and civil war that followed, Kabul University was, itself, an advanced institution of higher education, where both men and women from all over Afghanistan came to study.
True, there was certainly a prevailing conservative strain in Afghan tribal society, but the values of learning and deep insight into human behavior were an ever-present feature running through the culture, despite the imperfections that mark any human society. Certainly, the brutal and violent behavior noted here and that we witness today in Afghanistan was no more a part of traditional Afghan culture than in many earlier Western societies. Criminal and sociopathic behavior is part of every society. Traditional tribal relations often did as much to control it in Afghanistan as more modern systems of justice elsewhere.
2
"I kept wondering whether a man would have been beaten in the same way?"
Well, LBJ sent 68,000 American men to their deaths in Vietnam. As far as I know, all the people tortured by waterboarding, or by rendition were men.
So the question I would ask YOU Ms. Rubin is, "If a MAN had been beaten this way, would you or America have cared?" I doubt it would make it into the NY Times.
Well, LBJ sent 68,000 American men to their deaths in Vietnam. As far as I know, all the people tortured by waterboarding, or by rendition were men.
So the question I would ask YOU Ms. Rubin is, "If a MAN had been beaten this way, would you or America have cared?" I doubt it would make it into the NY Times.
2
Flawed judgements are delivered all over the world. What choice the litigants have? We need to talk about quality of jugdements. Judicial reforms should cover this crucial area. We need a global body for victims of judicial excesses. Why it should be accepted that a judge may give a right or wrong judgement? Are there no ISO standards for judgements? Who will judge the judge? Debate is crucial.
2
Its is still not lear what really happened that incited this mob to murder Farkhunda. If she was innocent of what she was accused of, burning a copy of the Koran, what in the world happened to incite these people to so brutally murder her?
You've never heard of a "witch hunt?" Mobs are not known for their rational behavior.
1
The video and reporting on this medieval crime have been an enormous public service. Thank you. They've provided another ghastly reminder of how the resurgence of organized religion in the world, especially over the last 50 years, has had a vastly destructive influence. In the U.S., the rise of the religious right ushered in not just an era of intolerance but also directly coincided with the demise of democracy under the new billionaire oligarchs.
1
How did this comment get the subtitle 'Afghan Killing, Flawed Justice'. What did the tragic, disgusting event have to do with any sort of justice?
1
So "Who benefits from these 'traditional' (unjust) conditions-?" and "What 'forces' need to be present for the costs to outweigh those benefits (e.g., how did the US address the "lynchings in the American South")-?" When it comes to abuse against women, is it not a "community" of uneducated male chauvinists who benefit and resist change(?), who when formed in such "community" will perpetrate violence against efforts to change the gender balance(?), even when first generations emigrate to foreign countries(?). Looking back at the US Civil Rights era, it took a more unified society, agreed upon a critical mass of common values, with the political will & leadership to legislate & enforce perpetrators into keeping their views to themselves (people themselves rarely change). But how can this be done in more 'traditional' cultures where the laws & legislation are "not real"-? If the common (male) citizen doesn't share those fundamental values in places like Afghanistan, then the resulting justice system remains more than just flawed.
2
I find it irritating that it seems to make a difference wether she was cleared from the accusations or not. It is like saying the burning of the witches in medieval times appears even more cruel as it turns out that most of the times allegations of host desecration turned out to be false. burning a book should not be a crime to begin with.
2
WHAT CAN I DO?
1
If this story fails to change women's fate in Afghanistan, sadly nothing will in near future.
While education is important, changing the relationship between religion and state is crucial. If the judges practice a different set of rule/laws based on religion while the defense lawyers use secular laws, there is no hope what-so-ever.
Muslims and people of Afghanistan have to stop this madness and embrace reform by converting one mullah at a time. Otherwise, there is not hope what so ever.
While education is important, changing the relationship between religion and state is crucial. If the judges practice a different set of rule/laws based on religion while the defense lawyers use secular laws, there is no hope what-so-ever.
Muslims and people of Afghanistan have to stop this madness and embrace reform by converting one mullah at a time. Otherwise, there is not hope what so ever.
2
As a westerner I can't understand why this chilling brand of Islam "hates" women and treats humans so viciously. The author did give insight into her tragic death. Will their ideology ever change?
1
'She was searching for something to bring her peace of mind and her faith and the Quran were the closest she had come. She wanted to be a son to her father and told him at one point to treat her as his third son.'
When I read the first few words of Farkhunda's attempt to challenge the livelihood of the Sufi amulet seller, and of his henchman who took his cut from the proceeds, my first thoughts were 'how could you, man or woman, be so stupid to think that they would not try to fight back, any way they can?'
Farkhunda's rash boldness reminded me of me when I was young and the way I constantly got myself into trouble by publicly condemning and challenging the mob at every opportunity.
Next the image that came into my mind was of the Christos entering the Temple and throwing out the money changers. It's not only the Koran that has to be studied by devout Muslims. They must study the Bible too - the Old Testament and the New. Both Mohammed of Mecca and Medina and Jesus of Galilee were trouble makers. The former got away with it; the latter did not.
Farkhunda was another youthful Savonarola in the making. She was a courageous zealot, every bit as determined to stamp out idolatry and purify religion of its seedier elements as any Taliban. And she was a woman; and her family had little power.
In her righteous ire against the charlatans and their dupes, Farkhunda stood alone in one of the most vicious, cruel and bloodthirsty cultures of the modern era. Just what did she expect?
When I read the first few words of Farkhunda's attempt to challenge the livelihood of the Sufi amulet seller, and of his henchman who took his cut from the proceeds, my first thoughts were 'how could you, man or woman, be so stupid to think that they would not try to fight back, any way they can?'
Farkhunda's rash boldness reminded me of me when I was young and the way I constantly got myself into trouble by publicly condemning and challenging the mob at every opportunity.
Next the image that came into my mind was of the Christos entering the Temple and throwing out the money changers. It's not only the Koran that has to be studied by devout Muslims. They must study the Bible too - the Old Testament and the New. Both Mohammed of Mecca and Medina and Jesus of Galilee were trouble makers. The former got away with it; the latter did not.
Farkhunda was another youthful Savonarola in the making. She was a courageous zealot, every bit as determined to stamp out idolatry and purify religion of its seedier elements as any Taliban. And she was a woman; and her family had little power.
In her righteous ire against the charlatans and their dupes, Farkhunda stood alone in one of the most vicious, cruel and bloodthirsty cultures of the modern era. Just what did she expect?
2
"When I read the first few words of Farkhunda's attempt to challenge the livelihood of the Sufi amulet seller"
Just a note to correct a common mistake that might mislead innocent readers. The amulet seller, especially in this case, was no Sufi. Unfortunately, the name "Sufi" is often adopted for totally unrelated reasons by people who have agendas other than promoting the good of humanity, which is essential to the work of true Sufis. True Sufis are, in fact, just human beings who rarely identify as such and prefer to let their work, which promotes the welfare and long-term durability of all humanity, speak for them.
Just a note to correct a common mistake that might mislead innocent readers. The amulet seller, especially in this case, was no Sufi. Unfortunately, the name "Sufi" is often adopted for totally unrelated reasons by people who have agendas other than promoting the good of humanity, which is essential to the work of true Sufis. True Sufis are, in fact, just human beings who rarely identify as such and prefer to let their work, which promotes the welfare and long-term durability of all humanity, speak for them.
1
On re-reading, I should have written 'naive' or 'misguided' rather than 'stupid'.
These were barbarians, who have forgotten the greatness of the past, and now rule by terror and ignorance. Some religion! They can't seem to figure out why the world condemns them so vehemently.
1
An interesting look behind the curtain on an important article, but I really think that the words "Flawed Justice" should not be attached to the story. The term "Flawed Justice," to me, envisions a properly administered trial that reaches a result that simply fails to achieve an ideal sense of justice (such as a plea deal resulting in reduced sentences for a heinous criminal). There's the implication of distasteful, but not sinister, compromise. In the case of the late Ms. Farkhunda, justice was not "flawed," it was perverted, mocked and denied altogether. First, there's the perversion of justice that would lead any group of people to believe that a person (man or woman) may be beaten to death over a book. Never mind cultural contexts. Lines have to be drawn somewhere and if not here, where? This is all not to mention that Farkhunda hadn't even committed the ridiculous offense that angered the mob in the first place. The mockery and denial of justice is that while Farkhunda was killed for no reason whatsoever, the men who incited the crowd KNOWING what would happen live and breathe. So "justice" in Afghanistan means that the punishment for disrespecting an inanimate object (of which there are BILLIONS of copies) is death by bludgeoning, but the penalty for outright murder of an irreplaceable human life is essentially... nothing. Heck, some murderers even posted videos and pictures. That's not "flawed justice, it's a total lack thereof.
3
Very sad albeit sadness is the human condition.
This is a hideous crime, but the death penalty is just more violence. Both the crime and the penalty are symptoms of a very sick Islamic culture.
Yes we have the death penalty but we who oppose it can still speak out.
Yes we have the death penalty but we who oppose it can still speak out.
2
Even by the Times' standards, Rubin's superb work is a profound and extraordinary 'deep dive'. Look at the complex, interwoven, but clearly separate themes: mob violence on behalf of primitive religious outrage – or was money the baser motive? The breathtaking cruelty of a mob, most of whom would call themselves religious, against a religious young woman. The numerous collisions between versions of what is called “law” in Afghanistan and in the West. The haunting question of whether Western concepts of law, justice, process, kindness, or 'good' can or should be engrafted onto the gnarled rootstock of this 'graveyard of empires.' The disturbing parallel to American southern lynch-mobs a hundred years ago, juxtaposed to the 1964 civil rights laws (not to mention a black president) now. And I hardly need mention the excellent images by the Times' resident genius, Lynsey Addario, which supply poignancy. This is as excellent international journalism as I have seen in the Times.
3
I would suggest that this diplomat's conclusion was a bit hasty and his historical perspective less complete than it might be. The fact is that the real Afghan culture was all but destroyed, first by the 10-year war against the Soviets from 1979 to 1989, which (thanks to the Russians) destroyed much of Afghan society outside the cities, then the civil war that almost immediately followed, which (thanks largely to Pakistan) destroyed the cities and much else of the culture that the Russians left standing when they retreated.
The Taliban, who finally ended the civil war, and which consisted largely of the grown children of Afghan refugees from the Soviet war, knew almost nothing of the Afghan culture from which many of them originally came, and brought in its place a Wahabi-influenced Arab culture with which they were "educated" in the Saudi and Pakistani-funded madrasas of the refugee camps where many of them grew up. Especially after 9/11 when many of us started paying attention, most of the Western world mistakenly assumed the Taliban represented Afghan culture as it had always been.