Suddenly the NY Times has an interest in Iraq. Perhaps we can soon announce our withdrawal intentions so that the militants can wait us out and we can revisit this in 18 months.
1
The harsh truth is that Iraq, Syria and Libya are really no longer countries. To begin with, they were held together by dictatorships and the nationalism that existed was very weak at best. The place is awash with weapons and the demons of tribalism are now unleashed. It is in my view impossible to put the genie back in the bottle.
How is it that intelligent people didn't think about this before intervening?
I suspect some did but they were perhaps drowned out by groupthink.
How is it that intelligent people didn't think about this before intervening?
I suspect some did but they were perhaps drowned out by groupthink.
7
December 29, 2015
Let’s remind those that lead to as well insure gains by expressing skill in the art of exorcising demons; as surely for the force of the hero’s human reason solve these problems in the nature of philosophy aligned with divine inspiration – no details are to be ignored for the goal is a perfect Iraq on the world stage: exemplary.
jja Manhattan, N. Y.
Let’s remind those that lead to as well insure gains by expressing skill in the art of exorcising demons; as surely for the force of the hero’s human reason solve these problems in the nature of philosophy aligned with divine inspiration – no details are to be ignored for the goal is a perfect Iraq on the world stage: exemplary.
jja Manhattan, N. Y.
1
I hope this victory over Ramadi by the Iraqi army is not like the premature declaration, MISSION ACCOMPLISHED !!!
2
NO, I don't see the importance of retaking a smoking wasteland on the background of a disaster.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but let us take away the 1,300 years of Islamic conflict over religious hair splitting and I'd bet the ranch the Arabs would still be fighting tribal wars without end as they have for 5,000 years of recorded history. See the Old Testament carnage even if its only half true.
To The Ed Board, I would say, we forgive you for being suckered into the Iraq War. Let it go.
Now would it be OK to just call for a halt to the impossible dream of turning the Middle East into Utopia?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but let us take away the 1,300 years of Islamic conflict over religious hair splitting and I'd bet the ranch the Arabs would still be fighting tribal wars without end as they have for 5,000 years of recorded history. See the Old Testament carnage even if its only half true.
To The Ed Board, I would say, we forgive you for being suckered into the Iraq War. Let it go.
Now would it be OK to just call for a halt to the impossible dream of turning the Middle East into Utopia?
6
If it's important that the Shiite-led government of Iraq re-takes Ramadi, would it also be important for them to "re-take" Kirkuk? I'm no fan of ISIS, but there's something confusing to me about it being okay for armed Kurds to have their slice of Iraq but not okay for armed Sunnis to have their slice. As long as a giant population of Sunni Arabs across Syria and Iraq feel disenfranchised, there will be unrest in the area. Let's recognize that the thing drawn on the map called "Iraq" is a Westerner's fiction, largely separate from the facts on the ground. From this standpoint, ISIS is a symptom of the underlying problem, the tensions between cultures and unrepresentative governments. Unless we think we're going to fix that underlying problem (and why would we think we could do that?), let's stay out of it beyond offering humanitarian aid for the victims of the fighting.
2
This is partial good news, but it's not "Mission Accomplished"
pointing out what should be obvious patterns:
Jihadists have played a hit and fade game -- Flee when overwhelmed and come back to invade when the opponent is weak. The Al Queda-in-Iraq Sunnis/radicalized ex Baathists ran from Iraq into Syria, destabilized it (by rebranding themselves as a Sunni religious crusade -- ISIL against Assad, gaining donations from rich Arab gulf states and tacit support from Turkey) and then came back to retake Iraq.
This general strategy was also in the news when other Islamic Fundamentalist Jihadists (Al Qaeda) invaded/occupied Kunduz and then left to invade another day.
Therefore the real issue is about holding territory. And also, to point out the obvious that the pro-war media won't discuss: these conflicts are generational tribal/sectarian/religious struggles for territory and power.
Obama is correct to be reluctant to sacrifice American blood for pointless back-forth gains in generational, vain struggles in the M.E. ISIS is awful, but the long term solutions must be local.
pointing out what should be obvious patterns:
Jihadists have played a hit and fade game -- Flee when overwhelmed and come back to invade when the opponent is weak. The Al Queda-in-Iraq Sunnis/radicalized ex Baathists ran from Iraq into Syria, destabilized it (by rebranding themselves as a Sunni religious crusade -- ISIL against Assad, gaining donations from rich Arab gulf states and tacit support from Turkey) and then came back to retake Iraq.
This general strategy was also in the news when other Islamic Fundamentalist Jihadists (Al Qaeda) invaded/occupied Kunduz and then left to invade another day.
Therefore the real issue is about holding territory. And also, to point out the obvious that the pro-war media won't discuss: these conflicts are generational tribal/sectarian/religious struggles for territory and power.
Obama is correct to be reluctant to sacrifice American blood for pointless back-forth gains in generational, vain struggles in the M.E. ISIS is awful, but the long term solutions must be local.
3
Before Obama and the administration start flying their "mission accomplished" banners we need to remember that Ramadi should have never fallen to ISIS in the first place.
After the history of the "reset" with Putin's Russia, the "red line" in Syria, proclaiming "victory" in Yemen, and "leading from behind" in Libya (just to name a few), there is nothing for Obama or his supporters to brag about. Nothing.
And even getting Ramadi back does not make up for the vast number of Iraqi's who have suffered the worst forms of cruelty and torture under the rampaging ISIS terror.
After the history of the "reset" with Putin's Russia, the "red line" in Syria, proclaiming "victory" in Yemen, and "leading from behind" in Libya (just to name a few), there is nothing for Obama or his supporters to brag about. Nothing.
And even getting Ramadi back does not make up for the vast number of Iraqi's who have suffered the worst forms of cruelty and torture under the rampaging ISIS terror.
4
December 29, 2015
What one would prefer not to say is: the more things change the more they stay the same...yet knowing our human spirit’s as conditional grace earned: civility with honor’s place in history.
Jja
What one would prefer not to say is: the more things change the more they stay the same...yet knowing our human spirit’s as conditional grace earned: civility with honor’s place in history.
Jja
1
December 29, 2015
All roads rightly lead to Ramadi,and let's hope this political reality that will become Iraq’s greatest victory to lead Iraq as a nation; not endless tribal factionalism. All know the 'costs / benefits,' to losing this momentum;
Let’s remind ourselves that contesting destiny is easy but defining the same is heroic and beautiful to live smart and audacious in the faith in humanity's hope for life - not the inverse / or reverse...
Jja Manhattan, N.Y
All roads rightly lead to Ramadi,and let's hope this political reality that will become Iraq’s greatest victory to lead Iraq as a nation; not endless tribal factionalism. All know the 'costs / benefits,' to losing this momentum;
Let’s remind ourselves that contesting destiny is easy but defining the same is heroic and beautiful to live smart and audacious in the faith in humanity's hope for life - not the inverse / or reverse...
Jja Manhattan, N.Y
1
If, as you report, "there is still resistance in 20 to 25 percent of the Ramadi area" then it has not been retaken. The time to celebrate will be when the entire city is secure.
And if, a year or so from now, ISIS attacks Ramadi again, what will happen? Will the Iraqi army stay and fight, or will they throw away their weapons and flee as usual?
And if, a year or so from now, ISIS attacks Ramadi again, what will happen? Will the Iraqi army stay and fight, or will they throw away their weapons and flee as usual?
3
Wasn't "constructive chaos", wanted by the US politicians, starting in Iraq, to dominate the Middle East and overthrow the Arab heads of states who do not obey them in creating the so-called Arab spring, resulting in governing the Arab countries by the Wahhabi sects, under the orders of the US allies of Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Qatar, like the Muslim Brothers in Egypt and so on?
The problem for the US didn't come from Iraq and ISIS, but from Egypt and Syria, with the intervention of Russia. ISIS wasn't a problem until Turkey, wanting to blackmail Europe into allowing a safe zone at Turkey's frontiers, started to send the "migrants" (armed to Europe), transporting the "constructive chaos", perhaps too early, into the European allies of the US who have started to be disobedient to US commands. The US politicians have forgotten or never knew that it is possible to decide when to start a war (and chaos) but you never know when, if and how it finishes
The problem for the US didn't come from Iraq and ISIS, but from Egypt and Syria, with the intervention of Russia. ISIS wasn't a problem until Turkey, wanting to blackmail Europe into allowing a safe zone at Turkey's frontiers, started to send the "migrants" (armed to Europe), transporting the "constructive chaos", perhaps too early, into the European allies of the US who have started to be disobedient to US commands. The US politicians have forgotten or never knew that it is possible to decide when to start a war (and chaos) but you never know when, if and how it finishes
2
The NYT Editorial Board continues to perpetuate the confusion between culture, religion and language. The Kurds of Northern Iraq are almost all Sunni as are the Kurds of Eastern Anatolia. The correct distinction to be made here is therefore not between 'Kurds, Sunnis and Shiites' but between Sunni Arab-speakers and the rest.
2
The defeat of ISIS in Ramadi should be exploited to discourage new recruits yet there seems to be no coverage or photographs of the bad guys getting their just recompense. In fact some reports suggest that only 300 ISIS fighters were left in the City and other fighters may be regrouping safely beyond the border. Stealth, patience and persistence are words that come to mind with the thought of ISIS.
As for political solidarity it is hard to imagine Kurdish troops, the Shiite-dominated Iraqi Army and Sunni tribal fighters (propped up by American advisers) living in anything but a very segregated environment. The reduced price of oil forebodes greater internal conflicts for Iraq and less opportunity to recover.
ISIS may spread thin, regroup and grow to take advantage of the larger political fight for a worldwide caliphate endorsed by Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi in 2014. The movement developed in Pakistan 10 years ago with the militant organization Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan following the suicidal success of Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda’s war against America. Acts of violence are central to the criminal enterprise of radical Islam and the ultimate worldwide caliphate. The geography, group label and leader of the month (“caliph”) is not essential. The sacrilegious prevision if Islam by worldwide military domination and potential nuclear destruction are the invention of those who deny evil.
As for political solidarity it is hard to imagine Kurdish troops, the Shiite-dominated Iraqi Army and Sunni tribal fighters (propped up by American advisers) living in anything but a very segregated environment. The reduced price of oil forebodes greater internal conflicts for Iraq and less opportunity to recover.
ISIS may spread thin, regroup and grow to take advantage of the larger political fight for a worldwide caliphate endorsed by Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi in 2014. The movement developed in Pakistan 10 years ago with the militant organization Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan following the suicidal success of Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda’s war against America. Acts of violence are central to the criminal enterprise of radical Islam and the ultimate worldwide caliphate. The geography, group label and leader of the month (“caliph”) is not essential. The sacrilegious prevision if Islam by worldwide military domination and potential nuclear destruction are the invention of those who deny evil.
2
The NYT, some of the US Generals and some of the comments seem to think that the retaking of Ramadi is no big deal.
How quickly we forget.
The second Ramadi war in 2006 took all the might of the United States forces in Iraq 5 months to retake Ramadi. Casualties were substantial with over 80 US Soldiers an and marines killed. Total Killed 750 with over 2000 injured.
At that time the enemy was not ISIS. It was an ill equipped bunch of Sunni tribes.
This is a substantial ground war won by the Iraqis and defeated ISIS in a matter of a couple of months. These are the wins that we need to fully support and invest in because this is the only way for the world to eradicate ISIS.
How quickly we forget.
The second Ramadi war in 2006 took all the might of the United States forces in Iraq 5 months to retake Ramadi. Casualties were substantial with over 80 US Soldiers an and marines killed. Total Killed 750 with over 2000 injured.
At that time the enemy was not ISIS. It was an ill equipped bunch of Sunni tribes.
This is a substantial ground war won by the Iraqis and defeated ISIS in a matter of a couple of months. These are the wins that we need to fully support and invest in because this is the only way for the world to eradicate ISIS.
4
What a joke. We didn't retake Ramadi. Iraq didn't retake Ramadi. Iran conquered Ramadi and added it to their growing empire.
2
The retaking of Ramadi is another step forward in the Obama strategy.
Add to this the breaking news that 10 of ISIS leaders have been killed by US Air attacks is another significant step in our fight against this evil.
Our President warned us some time ago that it would be a long fight and so it will be. However these latest setbacks have hurt ISIS aura of infallibility and may deter future recruits of signing up to a losing cause.
I have faith in the Presidents military strategy and his diplomatic strategy to end the Syrian civil war so we can give our undivided attention to defeating ISIS in that country.
However what comes after ISIS in Syria and Iraq is truly problematic.
Kurds, Sunnis and Shia will all want a fair share of autonomy how can this be achieved with Assad still in power in Syria , Shias in charge in Iraq, Turkey intent on denying the Kurds.
It is going to take a wise and experienced US President to work with the global community to achieve a lasting peace in this troubled area.
Add to this the breaking news that 10 of ISIS leaders have been killed by US Air attacks is another significant step in our fight against this evil.
Our President warned us some time ago that it would be a long fight and so it will be. However these latest setbacks have hurt ISIS aura of infallibility and may deter future recruits of signing up to a losing cause.
I have faith in the Presidents military strategy and his diplomatic strategy to end the Syrian civil war so we can give our undivided attention to defeating ISIS in that country.
However what comes after ISIS in Syria and Iraq is truly problematic.
Kurds, Sunnis and Shia will all want a fair share of autonomy how can this be achieved with Assad still in power in Syria , Shias in charge in Iraq, Turkey intent on denying the Kurds.
It is going to take a wise and experienced US President to work with the global community to achieve a lasting peace in this troubled area.
5
A victory in the struggle to restore our faith in humanity in such a deeply troubled part of the world. We all should be thankful and encouraged.
2
Psychology. Or, in other words, how human beings think and are motivated in a certain context seems to have been lost to us and better understood and used by ISIS. Until now. This piece actually describes actions that indicate our awakening in the area of psychology and war. Namely, change in strategy design that uses some psychological principals to create strategies that produce more cohesion between Sunni and Shiite than, per usual, more divisiveness.
And that new expanded awareness of psychological factors even relevant in war seems to have found expression in the fact that Iran-allied Shiite militias were excluded from the battle for Ramadi (to avoid aggravating sectarian and ethnic tensions.) And also in the fact that Kurdish troops were excluded from the fight so the Iraqi army (could succeed on it's own and thus begin to believe in it's own capabilities.) Therefore, "If this alliance between the Shiite-dominated Iraqi army and the Sunni tribes holds, it could undercut the Islamic State's appear to the Sunni minority."
So...It's plain to see that not only is a war fought with weapons and politics but perhaps one of the most important "weapons" is understanding human nature, human behavior, human motivation, and human needs, thinking and cultural/religious beliefs as much as possible, then using that kind of expanded knowledge/understanding to design strategies that achieve a quicker and more peaceful lasting resolution.
And that new expanded awareness of psychological factors even relevant in war seems to have found expression in the fact that Iran-allied Shiite militias were excluded from the battle for Ramadi (to avoid aggravating sectarian and ethnic tensions.) And also in the fact that Kurdish troops were excluded from the fight so the Iraqi army (could succeed on it's own and thus begin to believe in it's own capabilities.) Therefore, "If this alliance between the Shiite-dominated Iraqi army and the Sunni tribes holds, it could undercut the Islamic State's appear to the Sunni minority."
So...It's plain to see that not only is a war fought with weapons and politics but perhaps one of the most important "weapons" is understanding human nature, human behavior, human motivation, and human needs, thinking and cultural/religious beliefs as much as possible, then using that kind of expanded knowledge/understanding to design strategies that achieve a quicker and more peaceful lasting resolution.
4
Yaaaaa.....the good fight goes on. Ridiculous! Let's initiate dialogue over military adventurism. All the fractions need to think this through logically or continue killing each other. We should be focusing on this strategy and not a military one.
1
I like the picture in this article. I would like all the letters to go up in smoke. Will the Iraqi forces with the continued US help make it happen? I feel they will. This is a big achievement that will boost morale and let nay-sayers in the US to quiet down.
1
That so many Americans are scared of a relatively small cult of dispossessed young men is startling. The idea of "carpet bombing" a cult is laughable if it weren't the rallying cry of the entire republican field.
It seems that President Obama is not just sitting on his hands making America weak, but getting on with the business at hand. A smart, tactical approach to the problem that might not get us bogged down in a land war fighting someone else's civil war.
It seems that President Obama is not just sitting on his hands making America weak, but getting on with the business at hand. A smart, tactical approach to the problem that might not get us bogged down in a land war fighting someone else's civil war.
13
Love your enemy!
Why?
You could learn a lot from them!
If we are really analytical, sooner or later we will learn that we are very similar to our enemies and share the same vices and weaknesses, but for some strange reasons (hubris, egoism, conceit,) it’s much easier to recognize those in them.
You don’t believe in this theory? Let’s test it!
The WWI is waged between the European colonial powers and wonna-be colonial powers. The WWII is waged between the Nazis, the fascists, the dictatorial communist regime that conspired with Berlin to occupy and split Poland and the imperialistic colonial powers.
Why did Japan attack Pearl Harbor and our fleet? They construed us as a competitor in the colonial conquest of the Far East. They perceived us as identical to them!
Why do the Sunnis and the Shiites fight each other? They are so similar!
Both groups ignore the Koran verses and blindly follow the wrongful books – the Hadiths! They just created the different wrongful manuals after the death of Prophet Mohamed in shared contradiction to their Holy Book.
Thus it’s completely irrelevant who controls Ramadi because both groups are equally intolerant, exclusive and wrong…
Love your enemy because you share the identical mistakes.
If you don’t like their bias, be first to change your weaknesses!
Why?
You could learn a lot from them!
If we are really analytical, sooner or later we will learn that we are very similar to our enemies and share the same vices and weaknesses, but for some strange reasons (hubris, egoism, conceit,) it’s much easier to recognize those in them.
You don’t believe in this theory? Let’s test it!
The WWI is waged between the European colonial powers and wonna-be colonial powers. The WWII is waged between the Nazis, the fascists, the dictatorial communist regime that conspired with Berlin to occupy and split Poland and the imperialistic colonial powers.
Why did Japan attack Pearl Harbor and our fleet? They construed us as a competitor in the colonial conquest of the Far East. They perceived us as identical to them!
Why do the Sunnis and the Shiites fight each other? They are so similar!
Both groups ignore the Koran verses and blindly follow the wrongful books – the Hadiths! They just created the different wrongful manuals after the death of Prophet Mohamed in shared contradiction to their Holy Book.
Thus it’s completely irrelevant who controls Ramadi because both groups are equally intolerant, exclusive and wrong…
Love your enemy because you share the identical mistakes.
If you don’t like their bias, be first to change your weaknesses!
1
The ongoing battle for the Iraqi Anbar region should demonstrate the futility of US involvement in the current conflicts in Iraq and in Syria.
By dislodging ISIS from parts of the city of Anbar, with significant US air bombardment, and probably significant, undisclosed American boots on Iraqi grounds, the Iraqi Army has declared victory.
From US perspective, however, this is a “victory” that has been costly in human lives and in US treasure, which inflicted a devastating toll on Iraqi civilians, which destroyed an entire Iraqi city that has only been partly “liberated,” and which at best has been morally doubtful.
It is bound to intensify terrorism, and may therefore be a Pyrrhic victory that is tantamount to defeat.
I have repeatedly written on these pages that the US should find a way to extricate itself from Middle East conflicts and violence. It should refrain from determining the borders of Middle East states and from overthrowing Middle East regimes militarily.
More importantly, it should let the powers of the region fight and defeat ISIS without any US involvement.
For in the final analysis, no matter how powerful and resourceful we may be, we will not be able to recreate the Middle East in our own image, nor shape it in any way that is unacceptable to its peoples.
Attempts in either direction will be costly and futile, and will inevitably endanger US security and threaten world peace.
By dislodging ISIS from parts of the city of Anbar, with significant US air bombardment, and probably significant, undisclosed American boots on Iraqi grounds, the Iraqi Army has declared victory.
From US perspective, however, this is a “victory” that has been costly in human lives and in US treasure, which inflicted a devastating toll on Iraqi civilians, which destroyed an entire Iraqi city that has only been partly “liberated,” and which at best has been morally doubtful.
It is bound to intensify terrorism, and may therefore be a Pyrrhic victory that is tantamount to defeat.
I have repeatedly written on these pages that the US should find a way to extricate itself from Middle East conflicts and violence. It should refrain from determining the borders of Middle East states and from overthrowing Middle East regimes militarily.
More importantly, it should let the powers of the region fight and defeat ISIS without any US involvement.
For in the final analysis, no matter how powerful and resourceful we may be, we will not be able to recreate the Middle East in our own image, nor shape it in any way that is unacceptable to its peoples.
Attempts in either direction will be costly and futile, and will inevitably endanger US security and threaten world peace.
23
I agree but would not leave out a willing coalition of countries to help negotiate a peaceful resolution and not a military one. This coalition should also help resettle the displaced.
2
For all his bluster and fulminations, The Great al-Baghdadi doesn’t seem at the moment to be very anxious to take on Israel. I ascribe this to him being scared-shiftless of Mr. Netanyahu. I don’t blame him.
2
Get a grip, will you, pal? You think it's a coincidence the Israeli army fights an armed enemy only when it has to? (When it made a giant mistake.) Either the Israeli army is incapable of disarming 14- and 78-year-old knife-wielding Palestinians, or simply enjoys shooting them. Either way, it bodes not well for facing, and winning against, real soldiers. Shooting back.
3
Dear Abie Normal,
Actually since 1948 it's quite clear that Israel's army has quickly and overwhelmingly defeated every foe that has attacked it. I have no problem with them shooting knife-wielding terrorists, but they're quite capable of defeating regular armies too and have always won.
Actually since 1948 it's quite clear that Israel's army has quickly and overwhelmingly defeated every foe that has attacked it. I have no problem with them shooting knife-wielding terrorists, but they're quite capable of defeating regular armies too and have always won.
1
@ abie --
1. Bravery like yours is much to be admired. I myself, whenever I am encountering knife-wielding people intent on killing me, always shoot to kill.
2. If what you say about Israel is true, I would be curious to know why Mr. Baghdadi isn't taking advantage of any of the military weaknesses of Israel that you describe.
1. Bravery like yours is much to be admired. I myself, whenever I am encountering knife-wielding people intent on killing me, always shoot to kill.
2. If what you say about Israel is true, I would be curious to know why Mr. Baghdadi isn't taking advantage of any of the military weaknesses of Israel that you describe.
3
Didn't Iraq already have Ramadi before the genius, W, started to mess with the region?
5
When you say that ISIS has lost 40% of it's territories in Iraq to Iraqi and Kurdish forces you are being super generous to the Iraqi's.
I've read now three accounts by three former sec. of states which re affirm the common belief that this administration has no cogent policy for the middle east. I personally think it extends to the rest of the globe and the homeland as well but I don't work at the Times and don't have a dog in the hunt so what do I know. Iraq of course is gone. The Yazidi seem to place just higher than Christians and lower than all muslims, atheists and scientologists for re settlement. You can not really expect them to "submit" once more to living under any muslim regime. They document accurately a pogrom every ten to twenty years and a mass extermination every century since muhammed got creative with his dreams. They would rather take their chance anywhere else and when you consider their religious devotion is centered around Mt.Sinjar it's something of an existential sacrifice.
I can not think of one policy advanced by this president that does not serve to distance one citizen from another and the nation they live in from the responsibility that comes along with power and wealth. You can not claim that making a desert and calling it "victory" is being "on the right side of history"
I've read now three accounts by three former sec. of states which re affirm the common belief that this administration has no cogent policy for the middle east. I personally think it extends to the rest of the globe and the homeland as well but I don't work at the Times and don't have a dog in the hunt so what do I know. Iraq of course is gone. The Yazidi seem to place just higher than Christians and lower than all muslims, atheists and scientologists for re settlement. You can not really expect them to "submit" once more to living under any muslim regime. They document accurately a pogrom every ten to twenty years and a mass extermination every century since muhammed got creative with his dreams. They would rather take their chance anywhere else and when you consider their religious devotion is centered around Mt.Sinjar it's something of an existential sacrifice.
I can not think of one policy advanced by this president that does not serve to distance one citizen from another and the nation they live in from the responsibility that comes along with power and wealth. You can not claim that making a desert and calling it "victory" is being "on the right side of history"
1
"I've read now three accounts by three former sec. of states which re affirm the common belief that this administration has no cogent policy for the middle east.".....You can read all the accounts you want, but the administration does have a strategy, which includes - don't do stupid stuff. ISIS, doesn't have a navy or an air force and they don't represent a significant threat to our national security. The fight between Sunni and Shia has been going on for 1300 years and it is not about us. Saudi Arabia and Turkey live right next door, and the former is more afraid of Iran and the Shia and the latter more interested in eliminating the Kurds than they are in fighting ISIS. Further, all those Syrian refugees pose a problem for Europe not the U.S. The administration strategy recognizes that it is not our fight, it recognizes that it does not serve our interest to step up when all that means is that the people who have a vested interest will step back. It is there fight, let them do the fighting.
2
Do I detect in the musings of the dear Editorial Board a return to the type of thinking that it used during the days of Lyndon Johnson in support of his incremental policies of dealing with the North Vietnamese?
Of course I do.
The Editorial Board of today was too young to understand the dynamics at work then or to learn the painful lessons that the Vietnam War taught the American People.
The Powell Doctrine has yet to be supplanted, even by Barack Obama's thinly veiled policies of withdrawal and isolation...
If you are going to fight a battle...or a war...fight it to win.
Of course I do.
The Editorial Board of today was too young to understand the dynamics at work then or to learn the painful lessons that the Vietnam War taught the American People.
The Powell Doctrine has yet to be supplanted, even by Barack Obama's thinly veiled policies of withdrawal and isolation...
If you are going to fight a battle...or a war...fight it to win.
One thing is for sure, it will take more than Iraqis.
You really should read this article which sheds light into the complicated picture.
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v38/n01/seymour-m-hersh/military-to-military
What the right hand does, the left hand does not know or pretends not to know. So much for military and civil administration coordination.
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v38/n01/seymour-m-hersh/military-to-military
What the right hand does, the left hand does not know or pretends not to know. So much for military and civil administration coordination.
3
Congratulations to the Iraqi and US forces for helping reduce a vibrant town to a pile of rubble. I'm sure the majority Sunni residents are thrilled to be back under the control of the Shi'ite government forces who had been so kind to them in the past.
At least Saddam is gone.
At least Saddam is gone.
2
Good for the Iraqi Army. This may well boost their self-confidence and make them true professionals.
While it's encouraging to see the government exclude sectarian "militias", those are the true danger in Iraq's future. You just can't give armed religious vigilantes a voice in government. When Iraq either disbands (and disarms) or folds these groups into the armed forces, we can then take Iraq seriously.
While it's encouraging to see the government exclude sectarian "militias", those are the true danger in Iraq's future. You just can't give armed religious vigilantes a voice in government. When Iraq either disbands (and disarms) or folds these groups into the armed forces, we can then take Iraq seriously.
Please. We have never heard a report of a victory out of Iraq that has not been overinflated to make Americans feel good about the mission. To believe this is different is naive.
What matters is body count, and I have not seen that published. Conflating this minor military success with real success is foolish, this does absolutely nothing to quiet Islamic militancy.
What matters is body count, and I have not seen that published. Conflating this minor military success with real success is foolish, this does absolutely nothing to quiet Islamic militancy.
ISIS fights on many fronts, expanding where resistance is weak. This provides the key to defeating them. If we can build coalitions at each point of conflict where locals provide key resistance with our support, ISIS power becomes diluted and wanes.
This is a significant victory. It suggests that there is a strategy that can work over the long run. Ramadi will now be less susceptible to being retaken than if we had simply gone in there with outside forces and wiped out the enemy. Because it leaves behind victors who have a strong interest in rebuilding and protecting their way of life there.
We can build friends in the region rather than more enemies.
Determined, patient, strategic action is the effective counterpoint to those who bluster about bombing the enemy into oblivion.
This is a significant victory. It suggests that there is a strategy that can work over the long run. Ramadi will now be less susceptible to being retaken than if we had simply gone in there with outside forces and wiped out the enemy. Because it leaves behind victors who have a strong interest in rebuilding and protecting their way of life there.
We can build friends in the region rather than more enemies.
Determined, patient, strategic action is the effective counterpoint to those who bluster about bombing the enemy into oblivion.
1
Jon P, that all depends upon the definitions of "outsiders" and "insiders" at play.
And, when you consider that the tensions in Iraq are merely the manifestations of the larger struggles between the Sunni and Shiite factions of Islam playing themselves out in a world devoid of education and the comforts of modern civilization.
In a place where there are more enemies than friends, even for those that live closest to the scenes of conflict, building more friends can be an nearly impossible task.
And, when you consider that the tensions in Iraq are merely the manifestations of the larger struggles between the Sunni and Shiite factions of Islam playing themselves out in a world devoid of education and the comforts of modern civilization.
In a place where there are more enemies than friends, even for those that live closest to the scenes of conflict, building more friends can be an nearly impossible task.
2
I hear you. Nearly impossible. It takes skill, patience, grit and political courage. But it's far better than the alternative: guaranteeing that we'll make more enemies through indiscriminate destruction and killing.
It appears we've done the right thing in Ramadi. And I applaud our leadership for displaying some savvy in the face of political pressure for blind revenge.
It appears we've done the right thing in Ramadi. And I applaud our leadership for displaying some savvy in the face of political pressure for blind revenge.
This was a well deserved win and a great moral booster for the Iraqi army which is fighting to restore its esteems and dignity after fleeing Ramadi 8th months ago.
This will help prepare them for the forthcoming, much harder fight for Mosul. But this was a job well done and the army deserves a lot of praise.
The road ahead is hard and long and I hope the political leadership will show the same courage as the army and bring the Sunni population into the government in a meaningful way.
This will help prepare them for the forthcoming, much harder fight for Mosul. But this was a job well done and the army deserves a lot of praise.
The road ahead is hard and long and I hope the political leadership will show the same courage as the army and bring the Sunni population into the government in a meaningful way.
2
Great news, good story. Not much coverage over the last several days as it developed. Seems American media-entertainment corporations prefer focus on Donald Trump's latest vulgarity.
3
On one side of the Sunni-Shi'a divide we are working with the Iraqi government--as well as Iran and Russia--to roll back ISIS while at the same time, through our long-time ally Saudi Arabia weapons are flowing to Sunni radicals opposed to the Iraqi government and to the anti-Assad resistance with its variety of dubious actors.
If strategic confusion and chaos on the ground have created the conditions in which ISIS has thrived, then the application of military power alone is unlikely to solve the problem. Obama and Kerry's determination to pursue diplomatic solutions represents a possible way forward while the instincts of the GOP candidates to bomb our way to a regional solution underlines the bankruptcy of that party's approach to foreign policy in the 21st century.
If strategic confusion and chaos on the ground have created the conditions in which ISIS has thrived, then the application of military power alone is unlikely to solve the problem. Obama and Kerry's determination to pursue diplomatic solutions represents a possible way forward while the instincts of the GOP candidates to bomb our way to a regional solution underlines the bankruptcy of that party's approach to foreign policy in the 21st century.
23
"The group exploits the anger of Iraq’s Sunni minority, which has been disenfranchised from Iraqi politics since Saddam Hussein was overthrown in 2003."
Marginalized, not disenfranchised, they are fully represented in Parliament.
Marginalized, not disenfranchised, they are fully represented in Parliament.
Who, what, where and why is ISIS and what should 'we' do? Who is the 'we' and why is it so? The vagaries of this enemy that has thousands of faces and locations and motives and impact defies meaningful strategies and unmeasurable outcomes with insubstantial evidence that any 'victory' whether territorial or diplomatic or military or ideological is actually a victory and really consequential. The growing conclusion is that we should stop meddling and scrutinize immigrants carefully to detect local danger here while leaving the Middle East alone to settle their chaos as best they can. Our impact in each region where we have had massive military investments has been fleeting at best. We cannot determine outcomes even with trillions of dollars devoted to military dominance. It is folly to continue and a mirage at best to evaluate.
Not too much mention of the symbiotic type relationship between George W. Bush and Maliki. Not only was this a factor in the long term outcome in Iraq up to the time most US troops were pulled out, but obviously, it has been a factor in the long term outcome as well.
Let us be reminded - Maliki did not want any further US troops, but yet President Obama will be chided endlessly for not continuing to send thousands (no not just the special forces 3,500 troops) of US soldiers to Iraq.
Perhaps we should put a little more responsibility on Maliki, and yes, that bond with Bush.
Let us be reminded - Maliki did not want any further US troops, but yet President Obama will be chided endlessly for not continuing to send thousands (no not just the special forces 3,500 troops) of US soldiers to Iraq.
Perhaps we should put a little more responsibility on Maliki, and yes, that bond with Bush.
4
Lets state one truth to the face of GOP, Republican and Right wing nuts etc.
Obama was elected because he promised
1- Overcoming the economic crisis of 2008, he did it
2- Ending wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, he couldn't do it entirely.
3- ACA , he did it
Now many last 8 years as if living in a parallel universe, demanding from Obama should engage with seriously to Middle east. O do not.
I am very happy Obama resisted this much not to be trigger happy and fall in to one of this Abyss ( Iraq, Syria and Libya) officially. However we have been involved one way or another , no denying. But not a full scale engagement. That is very important fro me Obama kept his promise.
Fareed Zakaria's last Sunday GPS program is about this very issue, it was a stellar summary of what we did in Iraq. My take home message from the program. We did what we did in a cheap way ( not money wise) , lets say military, political and geo-strategically.
Iraq was hastily done work by the side of Bush administration, Obama administration never want to own it, never. This hastily done work cost every body not only us but every body around the Iraq, arm and leg.
We lost 5000 American and 3 trillion bill attached
Jordan , Lebanon and Turkey exposed millions of refugees.
EU braced for locust disaster style refugee migration
Russia was eventually drag in to Middle eastern war.
Iraq and Syria lost their sovereignty
Iran got strength in the region
Success really?
Obama was elected because he promised
1- Overcoming the economic crisis of 2008, he did it
2- Ending wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, he couldn't do it entirely.
3- ACA , he did it
Now many last 8 years as if living in a parallel universe, demanding from Obama should engage with seriously to Middle east. O do not.
I am very happy Obama resisted this much not to be trigger happy and fall in to one of this Abyss ( Iraq, Syria and Libya) officially. However we have been involved one way or another , no denying. But not a full scale engagement. That is very important fro me Obama kept his promise.
Fareed Zakaria's last Sunday GPS program is about this very issue, it was a stellar summary of what we did in Iraq. My take home message from the program. We did what we did in a cheap way ( not money wise) , lets say military, political and geo-strategically.
Iraq was hastily done work by the side of Bush administration, Obama administration never want to own it, never. This hastily done work cost every body not only us but every body around the Iraq, arm and leg.
We lost 5000 American and 3 trillion bill attached
Jordan , Lebanon and Turkey exposed millions of refugees.
EU braced for locust disaster style refugee migration
Russia was eventually drag in to Middle eastern war.
Iraq and Syria lost their sovereignty
Iran got strength in the region
Success really?
6
$ 6 trillion
Obama made the economic crisis worse with his failed porkulus, cash for clunkers, etc. Obama has presided over the worst economic "recovery" in history. Have you seen, or even care about, the Black unemployment rate?
There was a war in Iran? there was an attempted overthrow of the theocracy by the Iranian people, but coward Obama refused to help them. he let the government security forces murder and imprison them while he went golfing. He did surrender to Iran on their nuke program, thus guaranteeing a nuclear Iran and a nuclear war in the Middle East. Afghanistan has backslid into chaos since Obama seized power, and Iraq is far from the stable, ISIS-free nation Obama inherited.
The ACA is a complete disaster. Obama lied through his teeth and cancelled insurance for millions, forcing them into expensive ObamaCare plans with high deductibles and minimal coverage. ObamaCare has less than half the enrollees needed for financial viability, and thus over half the exchanges have gone bankrupt with the other half close behind. Cost are exploding. And where's the $2500 Obama promised every family??
the Obama regime has been a complete, total disaster devoid of even the smallest accomplishment. Thus, the media is desperately trying to create at least one.
There was a war in Iran? there was an attempted overthrow of the theocracy by the Iranian people, but coward Obama refused to help them. he let the government security forces murder and imprison them while he went golfing. He did surrender to Iran on their nuke program, thus guaranteeing a nuclear Iran and a nuclear war in the Middle East. Afghanistan has backslid into chaos since Obama seized power, and Iraq is far from the stable, ISIS-free nation Obama inherited.
The ACA is a complete disaster. Obama lied through his teeth and cancelled insurance for millions, forcing them into expensive ObamaCare plans with high deductibles and minimal coverage. ObamaCare has less than half the enrollees needed for financial viability, and thus over half the exchanges have gone bankrupt with the other half close behind. Cost are exploding. And where's the $2500 Obama promised every family??
the Obama regime has been a complete, total disaster devoid of even the smallest accomplishment. Thus, the media is desperately trying to create at least one.
...And, you're being kind about the assessment.
1
The truth is that ISIS has already won the war in the Middle East. They have already placed thousands of their sleeper terrorists within the welcoming walls of Europe and America. The few residual fighters left in Iraq and Syria will simply provide token resistance while thousands more flee. The only change will be in the continuing war's new location.
Possibly. Evidence for this number?
3
How do you have so much detailed info on ISIS? Do you work for/with them?
If not, when your predictions prove false, will you get back to us so we'll be appropriately informed please?
If not, when your predictions prove false, will you get back to us so we'll be appropriately informed please?
4
If you assume. as can well be defended, that we are seeing only a small percentage of the sleepers that are there, his estimate could well be accurate...
After all, if they weren't sleepers, we'd know about them already !
After all, if they weren't sleepers, we'd know about them already !
1
Our government has failed, and continues to fail, to recognize the deep historical and religious divisions within Iraq, a state whose boundaries were artificially determined by colonialist powers. It's not enough to say that Sunnis and Kurds must have a role in ruling that state. As in the case of the former Yugoslavia, Iraqi territory should be divided among its dominant sects. Otherwise, civil war and terrorism will continue to flourish.
2
While I agree with the facts that you state, there is little viable argument for creating a number of nation-states that could not function in any viable way without significant and expensive foreign subsidy.
Much of the fault today in Iraq is on the shoulders of the Iraqi government which has shut-out Sunni leadership from the councils of governance.
These divisions are religious, not political, and will not succumb to solutions that do not recognize the essences of the divides.
Much of the fault today in Iraq is on the shoulders of the Iraqi government which has shut-out Sunni leadership from the councils of governance.
These divisions are religious, not political, and will not succumb to solutions that do not recognize the essences of the divides.
ISIS appears to be a necessary enemy, which exists in order to accomplish political goals or the US would allow it to be defeated by the overwhelming force of combined arms. ISIS is not a will-o'-the-wisp guerilla force. It is a concentrated conventional army, which takes, and holds ground with a minimum of effort against soft targets. It is not a powerful army. It is a relatively weak army.
The American Military and the media seem to be determined to speak of ISIS as if it were al Qaeda, and to speak of defeating ISIS politically, as if it as if ISIS were an asymmetric force similar to the Viet Cong, and winning hearts and minds had something to do with victory. It doesn't.
ISIS needs to be rooted out by the combined arms of a superior military force, and defeated...which explicitly requires an infantry component.
Talk of a political solution as part of a program to defeat ISIS implicitly confers a permanent status to the IS, and no doubt an ISIS reservation, if it is not to be called a State would be positioned by a political settlement where it could best contain Shiite influence (fossil fuel distribution) from Iran and Iraq to Syria. I assume this is why the approach to defeating ISIS has been mostly talk with little action.
There is no real time coverage of the war against ISIS, but we do get to see some stock video coverage of staged operations, which purport to depict ground combat, which are laughably inept in their conduct. Who really knows what to make of it?
The American Military and the media seem to be determined to speak of ISIS as if it were al Qaeda, and to speak of defeating ISIS politically, as if it as if ISIS were an asymmetric force similar to the Viet Cong, and winning hearts and minds had something to do with victory. It doesn't.
ISIS needs to be rooted out by the combined arms of a superior military force, and defeated...which explicitly requires an infantry component.
Talk of a political solution as part of a program to defeat ISIS implicitly confers a permanent status to the IS, and no doubt an ISIS reservation, if it is not to be called a State would be positioned by a political settlement where it could best contain Shiite influence (fossil fuel distribution) from Iran and Iraq to Syria. I assume this is why the approach to defeating ISIS has been mostly talk with little action.
There is no real time coverage of the war against ISIS, but we do get to see some stock video coverage of staged operations, which purport to depict ground combat, which are laughably inept in their conduct. Who really knows what to make of it?
10
The major reason to deal with ISIS as a political problem more than a military problem is that once ISIS is routed, there needs to be a political solution, or the various countries fall back into chaos, an open door for ISIS 2.0 or an Al Qaeda transition into a a conventional armed force as well as an anarchic force of terror and destruction.
We can rout ISIS, with soldiers and weapons. We just can't replace chaos with soldiers and weapons. Without a political solution waiting in the wings, real hands out there ready to grab governance, routing ISIS is useless.
This is the real lesson from Iraq, Libya, Syria, and the various forays into Afghanistan which go back decades. Our soldiers and military are a top notch fighting force; they are not Centurions ready to hold the peace for a far away empire.
We can rout ISIS, with soldiers and weapons. We just can't replace chaos with soldiers and weapons. Without a political solution waiting in the wings, real hands out there ready to grab governance, routing ISIS is useless.
This is the real lesson from Iraq, Libya, Syria, and the various forays into Afghanistan which go back decades. Our soldiers and military are a top notch fighting force; they are not Centurions ready to hold the peace for a far away empire.
4
ISIS has elements of both...a standing army and an insurgent force hiding in plain sight in the barrows of the disaffected, politically emasculated people.
Combine that with testosterone any you have a military and political force with no morals or scruples with a need to be noticed and a desire to be taken as important.
Combine that with testosterone any you have a military and political force with no morals or scruples with a need to be noticed and a desire to be taken as important.
1
You can't stop looking at ISIS as if it was al Qaeda. It isn't. The Zarqawi split off Al Qaeda Iraq from Al Qaeda altogether was engendered by his desire to create an army, which would be at the heart of a Sunni Islamic State. That army is concentrated in known areas of Syria and Iraq, and it has supply lines, so it has as a consequence positioned itself to be crushed by a superior infantry force combined with air, armour and artillery support.
Al Qaeda is an offshoot from the thinking of Sayyid Qutb, and it as such is the soul of Sunni Muslim resistance to the presence of exploitative infidels in Muslim lands. As such al Qaeda will remain an ongoing source of criminogenic jihadism at least until the oil runs out , and foreigners leave the Middle East of their own volition.
What the US should not want is for the Islamic State to gain a foothold on the Mediterranean by defeating Assad of Syria, but that is of course what the Sunni Royals do want in order to trump Shiite fossil fuel distribution from the Shiite Crescent to Europe and Asia. It is also what Big Oil wants in order to protect access to equity reserves in an age of nationalizations.
For as long as we are in it to control the direction of fossil fuel distribution, there will be no political solution, which will disburse al Qaeda. For as long as Big Oil retains unparalleled influence in the Congress of the US there is no alternative to armed conflict.
Al Qaeda is an offshoot from the thinking of Sayyid Qutb, and it as such is the soul of Sunni Muslim resistance to the presence of exploitative infidels in Muslim lands. As such al Qaeda will remain an ongoing source of criminogenic jihadism at least until the oil runs out , and foreigners leave the Middle East of their own volition.
What the US should not want is for the Islamic State to gain a foothold on the Mediterranean by defeating Assad of Syria, but that is of course what the Sunni Royals do want in order to trump Shiite fossil fuel distribution from the Shiite Crescent to Europe and Asia. It is also what Big Oil wants in order to protect access to equity reserves in an age of nationalizations.
For as long as we are in it to control the direction of fossil fuel distribution, there will be no political solution, which will disburse al Qaeda. For as long as Big Oil retains unparalleled influence in the Congress of the US there is no alternative to armed conflict.
1
Good Job and Thanks, President Obama, for staying your course while under constant attack. Your plan for international support to defeat terrorists is the only one that has even remotely helped the Good People of Iraq and Syria reclaim their lives.
28
The best strategy in the fight against the ISIS is to accept our national responsibility for the rise of that terrorist organization by going back into history and reminding the Arabs how they used to think, believe and act BEFORE we started meddling into their internal affairs.
The next step would be to compare how they act today and what their preachers are proclaiming versus the original Koran verses.
Those two connected punches should knock out the terrorist leadership and destroy their infrastructure.
The question is why our government doesn’t want to destroy the terrorists and why it prefers to wage the useless wars and waste the national treasury in vain.
Let’s remember, before the Bush Administration launched the war on terrorism the Al Qaeda was a miniscule organization with a couple of thousand followers.
Right now the terrorism has spread across Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Libya, Sudan, Nigeria…
Do we need more evidence that our government is on the wrong course?
Do we understand who is ultimately responsible for the actions of our elected representatives?
We, the voters!
They will never change unless we change first!
The next step would be to compare how they act today and what their preachers are proclaiming versus the original Koran verses.
Those two connected punches should knock out the terrorist leadership and destroy their infrastructure.
The question is why our government doesn’t want to destroy the terrorists and why it prefers to wage the useless wars and waste the national treasury in vain.
Let’s remember, before the Bush Administration launched the war on terrorism the Al Qaeda was a miniscule organization with a couple of thousand followers.
Right now the terrorism has spread across Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Libya, Sudan, Nigeria…
Do we need more evidence that our government is on the wrong course?
Do we understand who is ultimately responsible for the actions of our elected representatives?
We, the voters!
They will never change unless we change first!
The problem Kenan, is that the ISIS brothers believe that those were the "good old days" and worthy of return...
...In spite of what their sisters and neighbors might think.
...In spite of what their sisters and neighbors might think.
2
"I can't tell you if the use of force in Iraq today would last five days, or five weeks, or five months, but it certainly isn't going to last any longer than that."
(Donald Rumsfeld, Interview with Steve Croft, Infinity CBS Radio Connect, November 14, 2002)
"it is not knowable how long that conflict would last. It could last, you know, six days, six weeks. I doubt six months."
(Donald Rumsfeld, TownHall Meeting At Aviano Air Base in Italy, February 7, 2003)
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Donald_Rumsfeld
(Donald Rumsfeld, Interview with Steve Croft, Infinity CBS Radio Connect, November 14, 2002)
"it is not knowable how long that conflict would last. It could last, you know, six days, six weeks. I doubt six months."
(Donald Rumsfeld, TownHall Meeting At Aviano Air Base in Italy, February 7, 2003)
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Donald_Rumsfeld
22
The "war" part of the Iraq conflict didn't much longer than that.
It was the "peace" that was the problem...
...Until Obama let it all go to waste with his policy of isolation and abject apologies.
It was the "peace" that was the problem...
...Until Obama let it all go to waste with his policy of isolation and abject apologies.
1
So the Shia and Kurdish fighters were sidelined why? Let's hear what Shia and Kurdish thought leaders have to say about their people's exclusion from what's being billed as an "Iraqi" victory. Does it make them feel more patriotic? Will they be inclined to trust the US in the future?
In fact, the concept of "Iraq" today is a piece of political fiction.
When I see photos of uniformed Iraqi soldiers, I always have the feeling that the boxes the uniforms came in are lying open just outside the frame of the image.
In fact, the concept of "Iraq" today is a piece of political fiction.
When I see photos of uniformed Iraqi soldiers, I always have the feeling that the boxes the uniforms came in are lying open just outside the frame of the image.
3
The Iranian-aligned Shia commit atrocities.
The Kurds feel they have no business in Sunni areas, and they fight when the potential to gain territory is there.
The Kurds feel they have no business in Sunni areas, and they fight when the potential to gain territory is there.
1
From my perspective, the two most important points in this article are that "ISIS" is a Sunni organization--and that a sizable segment of the forces who helped retake Ramadi were Sunnis.
What elevates the importance of those points is the fact that in the Islamic faith--Sunnis are a minority--and ISIS is but a small sliver of the minority--and the recognition of that strategic reality seems to have been lost in the scrum of the Republican nomination race, where the hyperventilating circus of candidates, led by Ted "Carpet Bomb" Cruz have been falling over each other, each trying to prove that he (or she) will deliver the biggest military response.
ISIS is not an existential threat to America, the "American way" of life--and or Western civilization--to pretend it is only serves to aid their recruiting efforts--it will not alter the eventual outcome of this struggle.
The human species rejected barbarity as a social system centuries ago--repeated outbreaks of such nihilist movements--from Nazism to more recent examples--like the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia--have all ended in total defeat--and demonstrated declining appeal and popular support.
What elevates the importance of those points is the fact that in the Islamic faith--Sunnis are a minority--and ISIS is but a small sliver of the minority--and the recognition of that strategic reality seems to have been lost in the scrum of the Republican nomination race, where the hyperventilating circus of candidates, led by Ted "Carpet Bomb" Cruz have been falling over each other, each trying to prove that he (or she) will deliver the biggest military response.
ISIS is not an existential threat to America, the "American way" of life--and or Western civilization--to pretend it is only serves to aid their recruiting efforts--it will not alter the eventual outcome of this struggle.
The human species rejected barbarity as a social system centuries ago--repeated outbreaks of such nihilist movements--from Nazism to more recent examples--like the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia--have all ended in total defeat--and demonstrated declining appeal and popular support.
9
"in the Islamic faith, Sunnis are a minority"
Please do your homework before posting ! They represent 85% of all Muslims.
You should have written "in Iraq, Sunni are a minority".
Please do your homework before posting ! They represent 85% of all Muslims.
You should have written "in Iraq, Sunni are a minority".
1
Seems, too, Mr. Johnston, to have been lost on Barack Obama and his political advisors.
The military has been an unheard voice in Obama's thinking, and so, the world now has to deal with the very type of insurgencies that good policy would have forestalled.
But hey, he was the agent for both "hope" and "change".
And it's a sad commentary that the "change" that Obama and his administration has wrought has greatly decreased the legitimate "hopes" that many in that area of the world had for a life of peace and seeming prosperity.
The military has been an unheard voice in Obama's thinking, and so, the world now has to deal with the very type of insurgencies that good policy would have forestalled.
But hey, he was the agent for both "hope" and "change".
And it's a sad commentary that the "change" that Obama and his administration has wrought has greatly decreased the legitimate "hopes" that many in that area of the world had for a life of peace and seeming prosperity.
1
The oldest truth in the world is if we want to change and improve the world we have to change and improve ourselves first.
The most important changes always start in our heads, hearts and souls…
Let’s do everything right personally and then verify whether the other side is as bad as we believed it to be.
If we want them to change, we have to lead by the personal example.
If we eliminate our weaknesses, they will do their best to improve themselves too because they don’t want to fall behind us.
But if we are eager to fight them, they will be equally eager to battle us…
The most important changes always start in our heads, hearts and souls…
Let’s do everything right personally and then verify whether the other side is as bad as we believed it to be.
If we want them to change, we have to lead by the personal example.
If we eliminate our weaknesses, they will do their best to improve themselves too because they don’t want to fall behind us.
But if we are eager to fight them, they will be equally eager to battle us…
19
Or, let's just put our heads in the sand.
The U.S. should change in order to appease ISIS? This is probably the worst case of hand wringing ever!
And what do you suggest, Kenan Porobic, needs changing?
Please be specific.
Platitudes are, no matter how you argue it, are just platitudes...Saying them over and over again will not change that reality.
Please be specific.
Platitudes are, no matter how you argue it, are just platitudes...Saying them over and over again will not change that reality.
1
Obama is so totally devoid of even the smallest accomplishment, so the media pulls out all the stops to make the retaking of Ramadi- actually the retaking of one government building- as the Greatest Military Victory in history. In reality, the only reason Ramadi fell in the first place is because of the stunning, unprecedented, and deadly incompetence of Obama
2
And have you seen the price of pork recently? All Obama's fault!
2
Too much Fox news. Millions more people have health insurance; Iran nuclear progress stopped, climate change treaty, ISIS losing with minimal US troop intervention, and more.
5
Ahhhhhh tell it to bin Laden rightist.
6
What will you say when the Iraqis lose or abandon Ramadi? What will you say when the Iraqi army starts killing civilians?
There is no importance to anything the US and whoever the coalition of the day do in the Middle East. There has never been nor will there ever be peace in the area.
There is no importance to anything the US and whoever the coalition of the day do in the Middle East. There has never been nor will there ever be peace in the area.
4
The article states: The group exploits the anger of Iraq’s Sunni minority, which has been disenfranchised from Iraqi politics since Saddam Hussein was overthrown in 2003.
OK, I get the disenfranchisement, but how can a group that enslaves women, brutally enforces religious conformity, beheads its "opponents" (e.g., members of a different religion or religious sect), and commits terrorist atrocities (perhaps these are all the same thing) appeal to a significant number of followers of a religion of peace? This is the question that Westerners are asking.
OK, I get the disenfranchisement, but how can a group that enslaves women, brutally enforces religious conformity, beheads its "opponents" (e.g., members of a different religion or religious sect), and commits terrorist atrocities (perhaps these are all the same thing) appeal to a significant number of followers of a religion of peace? This is the question that Westerners are asking.
3
Because the so called "secular" rulers like Saddam Hussein and Assad did and do the equivalent, and are also utterly corrupt. It is well documented that most of the appeal of extremists comes from ordinary peoples desperation for some order and justice in their daily lives.
Thank you President Obama. Slow but steady strategy. Quiet--no big-mouth chest beating--He just gets the job done.
27
please send some of the $50 million being used to rebuild ramadi to jersey city. thanks.
22
Nonsense.
All Chris Christie has to do is cut taxes for the rich again while attacking public school teachers and Jersey will be a shining light again.
All Chris Christie has to do is cut taxes for the rich again while attacking public school teachers and Jersey will be a shining light again.
8
It's been rebuilt any number of times...Why can't you keep in decent condition?
Put another way...
Don't ask me and the other taxpayers to fund your inability to maintain your own neighborhood.
Spring for a few bucks and buy a gallon or two of paint...Makes the neighborhood look better and does wonders to preserve the wood onto which you put it.
Put another way...
Don't ask me and the other taxpayers to fund your inability to maintain your own neighborhood.
Spring for a few bucks and buy a gallon or two of paint...Makes the neighborhood look better and does wonders to preserve the wood onto which you put it.
1
RAMADI Looked like an uninhabitable place on TV news videos last night. It's important to get rid of ISIS, but completely wrecking a city to save it is like killing a patient to save a life. Perhaps the troops being trained wanted to demonstrate their power. Power over what? Piles of rubble and uninhabitable, wrecked buildings? It brings to mind the expression, Inherit the wind. With a few rocks thrown in for good measure. It's more like finishing the world begun by the bad guys of ISIS. I don't know what else could have been done, but just about anything would have been more positive than what occurred.
4
Shades of Vietnam. Destroy the village to save it....
3
If we were looking for the real source of the havoc in the Middle East, the real culprit behind the rampant terrorism wouldn’t be the Islam but the US government and the UN Security Council.
It’s not hard to prove this hypothesis.
Those two directly destroyed the tolerant peaceful societies in the region. Who else would have supported the violent separation of the local people based upon their religion and ethnicity in 1948?
What the ISIS has been doing in Iraq and Syria is just the strict implementation of the same principle.
Actually, the worst problems in the region could be directly traced to Washington D.C.
The Iranians freely elected the secular and tolerant Mossadegh government in 1953. Only because of the military coup of Reza Pahlavi they ended up under the tyrannical regime and the pendulum later consequentially swung into the opposite direction of religious Ayatollahs. We pushed that society out of balance.
We prodded Saddam Hussein to invade Iran and armed him for a full decade, thus teaching him to invade Kuwait later.
We armed and trained the Taliban in the 1980’s. Osama bin Laden was on our pay list.
We dethroned the stable and secular regimes in Iraq, Libya and Syria that created educated multiethnic societies with a strong middle class.
Our government created the chaos that resulted in the rise of the ISIS…
The Islam created the regimes of Nasser, older Assad, Saddam Hussein and the ruling pro-socialist Baath parties.
Which one do you prefer now?
It’s not hard to prove this hypothesis.
Those two directly destroyed the tolerant peaceful societies in the region. Who else would have supported the violent separation of the local people based upon their religion and ethnicity in 1948?
What the ISIS has been doing in Iraq and Syria is just the strict implementation of the same principle.
Actually, the worst problems in the region could be directly traced to Washington D.C.
The Iranians freely elected the secular and tolerant Mossadegh government in 1953. Only because of the military coup of Reza Pahlavi they ended up under the tyrannical regime and the pendulum later consequentially swung into the opposite direction of religious Ayatollahs. We pushed that society out of balance.
We prodded Saddam Hussein to invade Iran and armed him for a full decade, thus teaching him to invade Kuwait later.
We armed and trained the Taliban in the 1980’s. Osama bin Laden was on our pay list.
We dethroned the stable and secular regimes in Iraq, Libya and Syria that created educated multiethnic societies with a strong middle class.
Our government created the chaos that resulted in the rise of the ISIS…
The Islam created the regimes of Nasser, older Assad, Saddam Hussein and the ruling pro-socialist Baath parties.
Which one do you prefer now?
6
The Soviets also liberated Khost in 1988(?) in an important symbolic victory against the Mujahedeen-Tailban-ISIS axis. Perhaps this on can be a tad more successful.
There's a typo in your headline. It should read The Insanity of Re Re Retaking Ramadi.
1
What about the importance of never having gone to Iraq, or the Middle East, in the first place? What about using America's resources to repair the US which has been allowed, if not desired, to fall into advanced disrepair and become its own desolate, unexceptional pretend-nation?What about the importance of rebuilding a United States of America instead of the political tear-down of disunited tribes? What about some perspective and common sense on what has been happening to America since the 1960s? OK, your turn to write about it.
19
Another beat the drum piece by the Times, did Adelson buy this paper too? We have sacrificed enough for Interests in the Middle East, take a look around America, it is literally falling down, when are we going to start nation building at home; when the inner cities have all burned to the ground because the young people have no jobs, no future, no hope? How about an article on Saunders and how he would like to spend our tax dollars anything would be better continuing to throw money at someone else's problem in the Middle East. Wake up America we are coming apart at the seams.
4
I'm at a loss to answer the question you implicitly posed as to what is "President Obama's strategy" against ISIS? Moreover, I wonder how Falluja and Ramadi resonate with our veterans and their families who gave their lives and limbs to take those same cities just a few years ago. The religious civil war between Sunnis and Shiites underlying the problems throughout the region must be resolved if there's ever to be a lasting peace. It's all well-and-good to have a Sunni force retake their provincial capital, but that must be followed with real political power-sharing with the Shiite-dominated central government in Baghdad. Military victories are only truly won when they translate into political victories.
7
Anyone who having difficulty understanding President Obama's strategy in this can listen to the GOP candidates and for the most part hear it repeated verbatim - with the exception of major injection of U.S. troops on the ground and carpet-bombing!
1
Sunni Shia schism started in 632 when Mohammed died. American fools in Washington think they are going to make it go away.
8
But an American wise-man in DC wants Americans to go away from that oil-rich land, but in an orderly fashion.
1
Hey, it worked for Catholics and Protestants (after a few hundred years of war and with a few notable modern exceptions).
While the retaking of Ramadi was a significant for Iraq's war against ISIS it is of way less significance for the war that the west has with ISIS. Iraq's war with ISIS is about regaining the territory that ISIS took from it, so all that Iraq needs for its victory is to reclaim that territory from ISIS.
The war that the west is fighting against ISIS is however of a totally different nature. For the west ISIS its not about how much territory it holds, but about how potent it is as a terrorist group that can perpetrate attacks against it. And in this regard ISIS does not have its power through how much territory it holds, or how many people it governs, but in how many members it has that are sworn to its ideology and are willing to die for it.
In fact all of the terror attacks that it takes credit for were not even organized and planned from ISIS territory but in the locale where they took place. The Paris attacks were perpetrated by ISIS members that resided in Europe and the planning for it, including acquiring the guns and suicide belts, all took place in Europe. The same was true of the attack in San Bernardino and even the downing of the plane in the Sinai.
So ousting ISIS from Iraq and Syria will not result in the defeat of ISIS the terror group. They will simply set up their base in Lybia, Yemen, Sinai or many other places. Ousting ISIS will however result in tens of thousands of Jihadis returning to the west with their sole mission in life being to commit terror attacks.
The war that the west is fighting against ISIS is however of a totally different nature. For the west ISIS its not about how much territory it holds, but about how potent it is as a terrorist group that can perpetrate attacks against it. And in this regard ISIS does not have its power through how much territory it holds, or how many people it governs, but in how many members it has that are sworn to its ideology and are willing to die for it.
In fact all of the terror attacks that it takes credit for were not even organized and planned from ISIS territory but in the locale where they took place. The Paris attacks were perpetrated by ISIS members that resided in Europe and the planning for it, including acquiring the guns and suicide belts, all took place in Europe. The same was true of the attack in San Bernardino and even the downing of the plane in the Sinai.
So ousting ISIS from Iraq and Syria will not result in the defeat of ISIS the terror group. They will simply set up their base in Lybia, Yemen, Sinai or many other places. Ousting ISIS will however result in tens of thousands of Jihadis returning to the west with their sole mission in life being to commit terror attacks.
20
How come so many who post comments write as if they can actually see the future? Yet, IMO, they seem to be extremely inaccurate.
Interesting.
Is this the future you wish for?
Interesting.
Is this the future you wish for?
1
This is the only way - natives fighting for their lives in whatever is "home" to them, whether it be Kurds, moderate Sunnis, or Shia. Obama may not have been very persuasive re his policy, but he is correct, no matter long it takes. The most interesting thing about this article is the composition of the Iraqi fighting force. It's probably one of the few wars in history where various alliances will be formed in different parts of the country in order to oust ISIS, and keep allies from fighting each other (eventually).
Makes one wish we had all listened to Joe Biden those many years ago, when he suggested that the way out was to form three separate states out of Iraq. Why not return to that way of thinking when this is all over.
Makes one wish we had all listened to Joe Biden those many years ago, when he suggested that the way out was to form three separate states out of Iraq. Why not return to that way of thinking when this is all over.
12
When Biden suggested to form a federal government in Iraq consisting of three states, one for Shias, one for Sunnis, and one for Kurds with proportional representation in the federal government in Baghdad , he was ridiculed by many on these shores.
I remember it well, and you are absolutely right in saying we should have listened to him.
I remember it well, and you are absolutely right in saying we should have listened to him.
3
To paraphrase Ward Just in "American Romantic":
“Throw everything at us. Throw everything you have. Send your drones, drop your bombs, spill your blood and treasure, and at the end of the engagement we will remain and you will be gone.”
“Throw everything at us. Throw everything you have. Send your drones, drop your bombs, spill your blood and treasure, and at the end of the engagement we will remain and you will be gone.”
2
Hopefully the victories will be followed by the backfilling of people determined to live normal lives, who will teach their children the lesson of what happens when blood thirsty extremists take over an area. Maybe the silver lining with ISIS is that peoples of that region will be much more conscious when it comes to the effects of radical teachings on their children.
Take the $50 Million, and build schoolsnity ceingnters for the people. Control corruption, and appoint a governor who is beyond reproach. Then leave forever.
Take the $50 Million, and build schoolsnity ceingnters for the people. Control corruption, and appoint a governor who is beyond reproach. Then leave forever.
3
"There is still resistance in 20 to 25 percent of the Ramadi area, and efforts to fully secure it are expected to take more time..."
Yes, this is quite a PC victory. Several hundred ISIS fighters held a city surrounded by thousands of tribesmen, Iraqi special forces, police, and regular army, all of which had American air support, for months.
Yes, this is quite a PC victory. Several hundred ISIS fighters held a city surrounded by thousands of tribesmen, Iraqi special forces, police, and regular army, all of which had American air support, for months.
>
No more retakes. It has to be held, or we just have another Vietnam syndrome, except this one would be much worse.
No more retakes. It has to be held, or we just have another Vietnam syndrome, except this one would be much worse.
16
Who is 'we'?
Since the number of ISIS personnel that remained in Ramadi was estimated to be about 300, I wouldn't call this as yet incomplete battle a "victory" for Iraq. It certainly cannot as yet be called a success for the Iraqi government.
11
The importance of war, at all cost. War sells, even news papers.
1
I thought that George W. Bush, and the military contractors that funded his campaign, and, installed Cheney and the rest of the unbalanced "leaders" that brought us the Iraq war....
...had already taken Ramadi?
How many times do we need to be involved in "taking Ramadi"? What if we just let the people born in that region handle business for themselves, and put our young men in jobs designed to further our future here?
That approach, leaving Vietnam, worked well for South Vietnam after North Vietnam kicked us out of making a continuous mess in South Vietnam (and for our young men here).
...had already taken Ramadi?
How many times do we need to be involved in "taking Ramadi"? What if we just let the people born in that region handle business for themselves, and put our young men in jobs designed to further our future here?
That approach, leaving Vietnam, worked well for South Vietnam after North Vietnam kicked us out of making a continuous mess in South Vietnam (and for our young men here).
1
I think you forgot a little something called "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED"!
George W Decider won.
All the subsequent killings, maimings, and countless engagements in that region are clearly an attempt by the Liberal Media Elite to undermine Bush's peerless administration of the Iraq Oil War and Halliburton Profit Enhancement Program.
George W Decider won.
All the subsequent killings, maimings, and countless engagements in that region are clearly an attempt by the Liberal Media Elite to undermine Bush's peerless administration of the Iraq Oil War and Halliburton Profit Enhancement Program.
2
The news is that our continuing military efforts are bearing fruit in the form of re-gaining territory lost to ISIS in the past 2 years in Iraq. The city of Ramadi has been mostly won back, and we will help Iraq to rebuild it with a large cash infusion. How long will this victory last?
After 13 years, and several trillion dollars of U.S. money spent in ridding Iraq of Saddam Hussein, setting up several quasi-democratic governments, then watching it all fall into 3 autonomous sections, we find ourselves still there, and putting more troops and money into this country which is now 3 different countries with one name. Our latest puppet leader, Abadi, is weak, but does most of our bidding. He is beholden to neither Iranian-supported Shiite leaders in the eastern section, nor to the radical Sunni former Baathists in the west.
Our foreign policy in the Middle East consists of pouring more blood and treasure into this land of endless tribal, sectarian and political conflicts. We are propping up two such countries fully, Afghanistan and Iraq, and fighting Islamic extremists in several more, such as Syria, Yemen and Libya. There is no light at the end of this tunnel, only endless conflict, which our Pentagon loves dearly because it justifies extravagant budgets, and huge influence inside the Beltway.
3
The Iraqi Army has become more efficient, not least due to training and equipment it has acquired from the US-led coalition. The 3.500 Americans in Iraq coordinate the cooperation between Iraqi security forces and the Sunni fighters in Ramadi. It is a wise decision to exclude the Shia militias from military operations in Sunni heartlands, because they are not welcome as liberators. The Iraqi security forces are tolerated, as long as they act as a national army.
The retaking of Ramadi gives the Shia-led government hope to capture Mosul. But its armed forces have to be much better prepared for the main battle there.
The retaking of Ramadi gives the Shia-led government hope to capture Mosul. But its armed forces have to be much better prepared for the main battle there.
2
Mr. Netanyahu, I assume, has already asked President Obama for permission to openly join in the fight against ISIS and has been flatly turned down. The President has never fully appreciated the value of Israel to America’s defense -- he regards it somewhat like an orphan the U.S, needs to take care of -- and this helps explain why he felt entitled to ignore Israel’s interests in negotiating the Iran deal.
Of course, some of America's Middle East Arab allies are already secretly cooperating with Israel in the effort to hold Iran, Hezbollah, Hamas and ISIS at bay, but it would be nice to see Mr. Netanyahu fully involved in the fight against ISIS as he lives in Jerusalem and knows a death threat when he hears one, as opposed to President Obama who lives in Washington, Chicago and Hawaii and knows Democratic politics.
Of course, some of America's Middle East Arab allies are already secretly cooperating with Israel in the effort to hold Iran, Hezbollah, Hamas and ISIS at bay, but it would be nice to see Mr. Netanyahu fully involved in the fight against ISIS as he lives in Jerusalem and knows a death threat when he hears one, as opposed to President Obama who lives in Washington, Chicago and Hawaii and knows Democratic politics.
3
Yeah, that's all we'd need. The Israelis actively joining this conflict would absolutely play perfectly into the narrative of the extremists, not to mention WWIII.
61
This gets published as an insightful comment. How? How does the NYT decide which ones to publish? A dartboard?
6
Daish was created by Saudi Arabia. I never heard Netanyahu ever talk about Daish. A friend like the corrupt Saudi who needs an enemy.
2
The USA,created the current ISIS problem by launching two wholly unnecessary and immoral wars against Iraq. The first, under the various pretexts of eliminating our erstwhile client Saddam Hussein under George Herbert Walker Bush and then the second, W43's incursion that had as its basis the terse Texan statement, "They tried to kill my daddy." Now, having spent countless billions in revenue and many thousands of lives in American troops, we are slavering at the leash and anxious to let slip the dogs of war once again. We do this out of an overweening greed, knowing that our military-industrial complex needs red meat in the form of fresh conflicts at regular intervals to boost its P&L numbers and dividends. We the people apparently have nothing but contempt for those who live underneath our bombs and rockets, as we express our current xenophobic sentiments that the refugees settle anywhere but here. Those who serve in our armed forces are regarded with a mixture of sympathy and contempt as being people who could find no other gainful occupation and who have therefore volunteered to forfeit their own lives on distant fields of war for the sake of what? And we consider ourselves a righteous nation favored especially by God. One wonders, which god that might be? The one that the Dow-Jones and Wall Street stand for, perhaps?
116
I couldn't agree more. At what point do we stop bombing and start building? When do we create order out of all the chaos we have created? This is truly a sign of insanity to think bombing and mayhem will somehow miraculously give way to some magical harmony. When will we wake up.
4
"The USA,created the current ISIS problem..."
What problem? Our POTUS has stated that ISIS was just the junior varsity and that they are contained although I'm not sure he meant contained within Paris. Obama also stated many times publicly that he ended the war in Iraq and left it with a stable government. Good calls.
Obama lied and people died.
What problem? Our POTUS has stated that ISIS was just the junior varsity and that they are contained although I'm not sure he meant contained within Paris. Obama also stated many times publicly that he ended the war in Iraq and left it with a stable government. Good calls.
Obama lied and people died.
1
Really??? The Iraq government allowed ISIS to grow, now Obama wanted out so he gets some of the blame. These organization is like roaches, cut one down some and another comes to replace it. Now Obama is not being assertive enough since he does not really want to be involved.
Yes, it shows that if ISIS is to be defeated they will be defeated by the locals in the neighborhood. If you want the job done right then learn to do the job yourself.
28
Or we could put our lives in the hands of Trump. "I'll hire good people. The best!"
The reality of Ramadi is that the Iraqis "recaptured " a town that is no more . Most of it has been destroyed in the fighting and the people of Ramadi who may have survived are most probably displaced somewhere .
It would also be wise to heed the Iraqi penchant for exaggeration......
It would also be wise to heed the Iraqi penchant for exaggeration......
18
Agreed a pyrrhic and likely an ephemeral "victory" . We have lost all perspective in the ME. We need to get out of thst region and let the Islamists of what ever stripe they are resolve their differences on their own. Boycott Sadudi Arabia and the others who revel in this carnage. It's time to spend our money on our own country and our own people. We are becoming a third world nation and a colony of China.
1
Before the American invasion Iraq was a run by the minority Sunni anti-Iran population led by a despotic dictator that ruthlessly oppressed the majority Shiites. After the invasion Bush turned the country over to the majority Shiites who then ruthlessly oppressed the Sunni minority (and woman) and gave rise to ISIS while turning Iraq into a puppet state of Iran.
You would have thought that such religion based take no prisoner and make no compromise politics would have been a wake-up call to America but instead it seems to have become the model for the new American politic, especially coming from the right.
You would have thought that such religion based take no prisoner and make no compromise politics would have been a wake-up call to America but instead it seems to have become the model for the new American politic, especially coming from the right.
45
Well Gee Obama is in charge. Now we made two big mistakes. One is insisting that one Iraq was good, three independent states federated for some things would have been much better. Number two is that voting and democracy is best for everyone. A decent dictator is best for many countries, and of course we need to tend to our actual benefit, not the locals.
If there is anyone who deserve refuge it is the poor Yazidi folks, like Kashmir Pundits of India (Yesterday KPs today Yazidis) they are being decimated and no one seems to bother as they are not a 'big market' nor a constituency. all others cash rich and network supported 'economic migrants' who can afford to smuggle themselves or raise funds via kith and kin in the west, must be given an 'staging area' in Africa or some island administered by UN till peace returns. wonder what happened to the proposal of that billionaire who proposed to build a city by buying an island from ailing Greece. politicians of mature democracies should not view this crisis from the prism of importing voters.
3
Another piece of "can-do" Americana nonsense. Fourteen years of this and still no sign of learning any lessons.
72
After the embarrassment of finding out that the $500 million only trained 5 Iraqi soldiers I believe the Obama was looking for a victory which would stem the bleeding and give Obama's program a much needed level of credibility. I believe Ramadi fulfills this need
It serves 3 purposes
1) To Obama it proves that Iraqi soldiers, if properly trained, could sustain an attack on ISIS and undo some the damage from the image of their dropping their weapons and fleeing
2) It bolsters claim that if Iraqi forces are up to the fight it will lessen calls for putting US boots on the ground d and having Obama look like a hypocrite
3) It increases the likelihood that other member states will have a more direct and active role
Ramadi was very important because it dispels the aura of being invincible It reveals their strategic flaws and weaknesses and as a result gives an emotional lift. It also gives a blue print how to defeat ISIS. But it must be sustained with planning how local governments will rebuild, will supported and not left to fend for themselves. People at all levels will have to set aside their religious differences and form a functional government t that does. Failure to do so will resort to Sectarian differences will create a vacuum that ISIS oR some other group will fill
It serves 3 purposes
1) To Obama it proves that Iraqi soldiers, if properly trained, could sustain an attack on ISIS and undo some the damage from the image of their dropping their weapons and fleeing
2) It bolsters claim that if Iraqi forces are up to the fight it will lessen calls for putting US boots on the ground d and having Obama look like a hypocrite
3) It increases the likelihood that other member states will have a more direct and active role
Ramadi was very important because it dispels the aura of being invincible It reveals their strategic flaws and weaknesses and as a result gives an emotional lift. It also gives a blue print how to defeat ISIS. But it must be sustained with planning how local governments will rebuild, will supported and not left to fend for themselves. People at all levels will have to set aside their religious differences and form a functional government t that does. Failure to do so will resort to Sectarian differences will create a vacuum that ISIS oR some other group will fill
15
You do realize Ramadi is no more and thst ISIS just left. You also realize that we are now paying to bus ISIS troops out of Damascus. We are truly insane.
Come on now, stick to the facts. That 500 million got us 50 soldiers not 5. Give some credit where credit is due.
Properly trained? The others were properly trained, it is leadership that makes the difference and of course respect from your superiors.
“The hard-fought victory shows what it will take politically and militarily to defeat the Islamic State.”
ARE YOU KIDDING? If the IRAQIS can take these guys, they may as well hang it up. ISIS has now displaced the Iraqi army as the basement force everyone loves to laugh at. Are we sure it wasn’t really U.S. Special Forces with the Kurdish Peshmerga? Then they kinda bowed out and let the Iraqis take the bow?
The importance of taking Ramadi is that for the first time we can afford to laugh at ISIS. Those whom you would demolish you must first find the will to laugh at.
ARE YOU KIDDING? If the IRAQIS can take these guys, they may as well hang it up. ISIS has now displaced the Iraqi army as the basement force everyone loves to laugh at. Are we sure it wasn’t really U.S. Special Forces with the Kurdish Peshmerga? Then they kinda bowed out and let the Iraqis take the bow?
The importance of taking Ramadi is that for the first time we can afford to laugh at ISIS. Those whom you would demolish you must first find the will to laugh at.
1
By some accounts, the "defense" by ISIS was confined to IED's and a handful of snipers. The Iraqis very, very slowly moved into the rubble against that. There may well have been more US airstrikes (630) than ISIS fighters present.
If those reports prove accurate, they would be typical of ISIS tactics, which have been guerrilla at all times.
That would put a different light on the Iraqi forces.
If those reports prove accurate, they would be typical of ISIS tactics, which have been guerrilla at all times.
That would put a different light on the Iraqi forces.
8
Mark:
It's interesting sometimes what fictions we sell ourselves in a desire to believe something we want to believe. Somehow, I don't think the reduction of Ramadi has greatly affected the tough decisions President Obama needs to take over the next year with regard to ISIS.
It's interesting sometimes what fictions we sell ourselves in a desire to believe something we want to believe. Somehow, I don't think the reduction of Ramadi has greatly affected the tough decisions President Obama needs to take over the next year with regard to ISIS.
4
You write: "There are formidable obstacles ahead as well as questions about how President Obama’s strategy in Iraq relates to the fight against the Islamic State in Syria and about a deepening American involvement in the conflict."
I've been talking this over with Putin and watching Homeland on TV. So here's the deal to make. Work with the Russians to destroy ISIS and hand Syria back to Assad. Let him reconsolidate his power. As part of the deal, strengthen Jordan to the south, the Kurds to the north, and an independent Lebanon to the west that can weaken Hezbollah. Support the existing regime in Egypt.
I've been talking this over with Putin and watching Homeland on TV. So here's the deal to make. Work with the Russians to destroy ISIS and hand Syria back to Assad. Let him reconsolidate his power. As part of the deal, strengthen Jordan to the south, the Kurds to the north, and an independent Lebanon to the west that can weaken Hezbollah. Support the existing regime in Egypt.
5
Obama would never do that. Hezbollah is not getting weakened without massive violence. No easy solution at all.
1
Any Army which has an elite contingent in its ranks trained in West Point, Fox worth,TX,etc will be a formidable fighting force, provided it stays strictly professional and do not let politics ( mainly ) dictate its military moves. The army has to stick to its professional duty like: having sovereignty respected, border defended , country stabilized and an a additional asset to maintain order and stability. When the military resistance they r facing is weak enough they can use the kind of skill they used in immediately laying down a bridge over rive Tigres in the rebuilding effort. The fighting skill, mental discipline and Psychological preparation they r coached with is tailored 4 constructive end and destroying ISIS type adversary is a means of achieving that. During the 1998 Ethio-Eritrea War the Ethiopian Gov recalled retired Generals ( they were still wearing their graduation gold rings from WP or FW ) from The Imperial H.Selassie Army, out of retirement and they were critical in turning the War balance in Ethiopia's favor and they contributed that much 25 yrs after the Emperor got deposed.Yes the War between these 2 people who r close cousins of each other is regrettable, but it also means that their training doesn't get rusty even after their hair grayed.The generals were true patriots and the Iraqis as long as they use their training by the US and allies to reclaim their country and make it habitable again they will continue to succeed, Iraq is for Iraqis,1st.TMD.
3
The recent Ramadi events show that patience and intelligence can indeed pay off. This is the way out of a very complicated mess, created in part by a foolish government's elefant-in-the-porcelain-store policies. The Bush II administration did not keep us safe by invading Irak. Rather, this huge blunder strengthened Iran's role in the region, fostered a continuing Al-Quaeda /ISIS recruitment drive --thereby bringing terrorism to our shores--, and weakened our economy as a prelude to the financial depression about to hit us. The Brenner-Wolfowitz-Rumsfeld triumvirate did not keep us safe with their policies of Sunni disenfranchisement, throwing all elements of the trained Iraqui military out and into the arms of anti-American terrorist movements.
Yet, impervious to analysis and the lessons of history, all present Republican candidates seem capable of coming up with, is blanket bombing and boots-on-the-ground. It is douse-the-fires-with-gasoline all over again. As always, in the minds of these knee jerk analysts, anything that goes wrong in this dangerous world is Obama's fault. How boring! If tomorrow it were to snow in Miami, they would insist on blaming the President.
Yet, impervious to analysis and the lessons of history, all present Republican candidates seem capable of coming up with, is blanket bombing and boots-on-the-ground. It is douse-the-fires-with-gasoline all over again. As always, in the minds of these knee jerk analysts, anything that goes wrong in this dangerous world is Obama's fault. How boring! If tomorrow it were to snow in Miami, they would insist on blaming the President.
39
the biggest blunder in history occurred when Obama yanked troops out of Iraq too soon for cheap political points. Obama inherited an ISIS-free, stable Iraq. The entire world warned Obama that withdrawing troops too soon would lead to disaster, but Obama really thinks he's the smartest human ever. Obama withdrew troops, claimed victory, but the world was right and Obama was wrong-again. This whole disaster could have been averted if only Obama had acted in the nation's interest instead of his own
1
Well Gee invading Iraq was no mistake, trying to help them and expecting improvement was. Better we should have taken their oil for freeing them and let them deal with it.
Bunk. the Iraqi government demanded that we withdraw.
Do you even read your own descriptions of what happened? Sectarian segregation of the army..is a good thing? The crowing about this rather weak excuse for a victory is becoming ridiculous. I know that Obama wanted a success for Christmas but someone needs to recognize that this "victory" isn't much.
I almost hate to ask how much did this "victory" cost us?
I almost hate to ask how much did this "victory" cost us?
14
Didn't cost much, probably a few bombs. Certainly not over 4000 American lives, or anything close to that.
2
From the newscasts I've seen, the whole city looks as if it was reduced to rubble. Once the rubble has been liberated, who's going to pay for the reconstruction? Shiite Baghdad?
8
Well the article says they're getting 50 million dollars for rebuilding from the US and it's allies so you will be paying part of the bill Stan.
2
ISIL is contained? Not by a long shot. But a steady and focus strategy coupled with one military battle/victory after another will contain & implode ISIL's tentacle structure/domination.
Steady as she goes Mr. President.
Steady as she goes Mr. President.
24
The president lives in a world of magical thinking. He actually thinks the Saudis are our friends and Ramadi is a victory.
Really? Only pressure got him to step up to the current level. Not steady but much faster is required. Steady is for losers, I won't mention any examples.
The Republican presidential candidates, Cruz, Bush, Rubio, Carson, Christie and Trump have been whining about the Obama administration's lack of progress in fighting ISIS. Now that Ramadi has been retaken, they must be thrilled. No?
43
No of course not. It took way too long, basically destroyed the city, and could have been done in about a week if you don't care about the locals. Perhaps you are satisfied with a C but some want an A+
This event highlights that support for public ethics and multilateral participation in governance and justice that accommodates different sectarian values matters even more than support for firepower and winning battles. It is in fact prerequisite to the success of the latter. The same lesson applies to successful governance worldwide and to civilly arbitrating and accommodating differences in values,, faiths and economic needs large and small. Lets all resolve to put our support for public ethics and multilateral solutions over values based bluster and unilateral bullying in the coming year.
4
Really?? You support say the UN running every local government? There is no such thing as public ethics, all of them are local. And solutions must be local or you get a civil war.
Joe Biden used to speak up when he didn't have the responsibility; anyone remember his famous "divide Iraq into three" doctrine? Now that his thrust has been vindicated over more than a decade of strife, and he is there in the executive branch, we see no bold move by the Obama administration to encourage any such thing, even if not as directly stark as that. No, it is too risky whenever you are the one in charge. Yet to stabilize this situation the sure bet thing is some deals must be cut by the powers that be, deals that rearrange things in some more natural order and provide solid alliances, power centers and incentives to maintain security. It is only the absence of such that allows two bit, "JV" medieval killers like ISIS to freely roam. What an abomination.
Any progress in the Iraqi government's ability to provide security for Iraq is a good thing.
7
It's really a great achievement of Iraqi military and forces from America in Iraq. It boosts the morale of army as well as the residents, who want to get out of ISIS brutalities very soon. But, army and other forces fighting against ISIS must focus their priorities taking two things in mind: there should be a comprehensive plan to get back those areas captured by ISIS and it should be a radical agenda not to give space to ISIS to expand its area further. For this, it requires the strategic approach and worldwide collaboration.
11
What an excellent idea Mr. Kumar, in as much as India is a nation an on an upward trajectory as opposed to say Americas and Europes economies who are headed to the bottom, except of course for the rich folks who like sending our kids to die for their special interests, their doing very well, thanks for asking; no seriously, why don't you suggest to your leaders that they send your military, give you some practice for the big one with Pakistan and maybe the Chinese they have all the money, well except for Amercan bankers, oh I forgot the Chinese are busy cutting deals with everyone, they really don't I care who's killing who as long as they get the natural resources. Another thought, we could sell you some nifty weapons also, reusing stuff we leave all over the world must be a drag and we really need to get that manufacturing thing going again, Starbucks and Walmart are running out of places to build and as goes Starbucks and Walmart goes America.
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1
Why do we need to defeat ISIL? ISIL is evil, but ISIL is not a significant threat to the US or to our allies. Consider the numbers. Since 2000, terrorists have killed fewer than 4000 Americans. And most of them on 9/11, when they got lucky before we made our planes safer. Yet our lax gun laws result in 30,000 American gun deaths every year. Since 2000, that's 450,000 Americans killed by guns. So all the terrorists pose a threat that is less than one percent of the threat posed by our lax gun laws. And the easy way for local members of ISIL to kill us is for them to buy guns or explosives here in the US. We'd reduce this threat by banning the sale of assault rifles and automatic handguns. We'd reduce the main threat---Americans shooting Americans---by putting a tax of $10 or $100 on the sale of every bullet (with suitable exceptions). Arabs, Persians, and Turks, not Americans, can and should defeat ISIL and pacify the Middle East.
41
I disagree. ISIL or ISIS is a threat to minimal standards of human decency which we, as a people, have an inherent interest in maintaining. Western Civilization, such as it is, swore an oath after the demise of Nazism, through the UN, to never again allow genocide, which includes mass executions and the destruction of history itself as perpetrated by ISIL/ISIS.
6
One picture is worth a thousand words.
From the safety of their desks in America, the Times editorial board celebrates the recapture of central Ramadi by the Iraqi trooped backed by American airstrikes.
While a defeat for ISIS is good, it is all too easy to forget that the lives of countless civilians -- children, women and men-- have been destroyed or ruined by all the warfare.
This picture of the aftermath of the fighting and bombing of Ramadi shows the gruesome reality for ordinary people on the ground.
For the sake of developing our empathy and compassion, it is well to take a moment and imagine what it would be like for you and your children if the area of the city pictured in this link were our neighborhoods.
http://news.yahoo.com/iraq-forces-sweep-ramadi-landmark-victory-08111643...
I think all "victories" need to be considered through the lenses of the eyes of those innocent human beings caught up in wars they did not start.
From the safety of their desks in America, the Times editorial board celebrates the recapture of central Ramadi by the Iraqi trooped backed by American airstrikes.
While a defeat for ISIS is good, it is all too easy to forget that the lives of countless civilians -- children, women and men-- have been destroyed or ruined by all the warfare.
This picture of the aftermath of the fighting and bombing of Ramadi shows the gruesome reality for ordinary people on the ground.
For the sake of developing our empathy and compassion, it is well to take a moment and imagine what it would be like for you and your children if the area of the city pictured in this link were our neighborhoods.
http://news.yahoo.com/iraq-forces-sweep-ramadi-landmark-victory-08111643...
I think all "victories" need to be considered through the lenses of the eyes of those innocent human beings caught up in wars they did not start.
8
Shock and awe but no forethought whatsoever as to how to forge a lasting political solution led to Daesh. Working diligently with and in support of Iraqi Shiites, Kurds and now local Sunnis, both politically and militarily as in Ramadi, is the long, slow and only sure way to eliminate Daesh now that this curse exists. A parallel course of action still needs to be developed, sustained and put into action in Syria if and when a working, locally led political arrangement can be put in place. The fractured Mideast is no place for the loudmouth ready, fire, aim rhetoric that continues to be passed off as 'foreign policy' on the Republican debate stage.
10
As Obama said, "it is important to shoot, but it is also important to aim."
"There is still resistance in 20 to 25 percent of the Ramadi area, and efforts to fully secure it are expected to take more time.."
Yesterday's article related to the re-taking of the "center" of Ramadi, or central Ramadi as in today's editorial.
The title of the editorial: "The Importance of Retaking Ramadi" is misleading. At first glance one would think that Ramadi has been re-taken, but actually the editorial relates to the future, and thus the headline also relates to the future. Ramadi has not yet been fully captured. It might have been wiser to wait with the editorial until the last 25% had been captured. The haste to publish the editorial probably reflects more of the NYT's editorial policy re Mr. Obama's Iraq strategy than the military or political reality.
Suffice it to quote Aristotle: "One swallow does not make a summer, neither does one fine day".
The work has just begun.
Yesterday's article related to the re-taking of the "center" of Ramadi, or central Ramadi as in today's editorial.
The title of the editorial: "The Importance of Retaking Ramadi" is misleading. At first glance one would think that Ramadi has been re-taken, but actually the editorial relates to the future, and thus the headline also relates to the future. Ramadi has not yet been fully captured. It might have been wiser to wait with the editorial until the last 25% had been captured. The haste to publish the editorial probably reflects more of the NYT's editorial policy re Mr. Obama's Iraq strategy than the military or political reality.
Suffice it to quote Aristotle: "One swallow does not make a summer, neither does one fine day".
The work has just begun.
5
I served in Iraq in 2009 for 11 months, albeit with hot coffee and air conditioning. I never fired a shot in anger and spent most of my time, "hitting send" from a computer. I say this to leave no doubt that my time in "the sandbox" was nothing compared to what many, many other endured. I also say this because I have been a harsh (yet fair) critic of the Iraqi Army.
So today was a good day for the Iraqi Army, a very good day. Hearty congrats are in order for what the Iraqi Army has achieved in al-Ramdi. They truly have won the day.
And I suppose there will be Democratic pundits who will breathe a sigh of relief, saying to themselves, " Thank God, our troops do not have to go back to Iraq or Syria."
To them I respectfully say, "You are wrong."
ISIS will only be defeated by ground troops, American ground troops. Infantry, Artillery, Armor, Special Operations, Close Air Support and others with a rifle or other weapon of "kinetic" (that means to kill people) force available to them. With all due respect to Sen. Sanders, there is no "Muslim force" to fight ISIS. There is only the U.S.
So I respectfully suggest it is time we all zip up our jackets and go stand in the cold light of truth and recognize this war is far from over.
We need to immediately deploy at least 50,000 troops to Iraq/Syria to fight ISIS and this is likely a low number.
These comments are only my own and I do not speak for the U.S. Government or any entity thereof.
Jeno Berta
MAJ (P), USAR
So today was a good day for the Iraqi Army, a very good day. Hearty congrats are in order for what the Iraqi Army has achieved in al-Ramdi. They truly have won the day.
And I suppose there will be Democratic pundits who will breathe a sigh of relief, saying to themselves, " Thank God, our troops do not have to go back to Iraq or Syria."
To them I respectfully say, "You are wrong."
ISIS will only be defeated by ground troops, American ground troops. Infantry, Artillery, Armor, Special Operations, Close Air Support and others with a rifle or other weapon of "kinetic" (that means to kill people) force available to them. With all due respect to Sen. Sanders, there is no "Muslim force" to fight ISIS. There is only the U.S.
So I respectfully suggest it is time we all zip up our jackets and go stand in the cold light of truth and recognize this war is far from over.
We need to immediately deploy at least 50,000 troops to Iraq/Syria to fight ISIS and this is likely a low number.
These comments are only my own and I do not speak for the U.S. Government or any entity thereof.
Jeno Berta
MAJ (P), USAR
2
Jeno makes a good point. Any diplomatic solution will have to be backed by the willingness and ability to use force.
2
This editorial about the re-taking of Ramadi reminds me of two turning points in WWII: the Battle of Midway and the Battle of Britain.
Hopefully, the Battle of Ramadi will bear similar fruit, and more good news will continue to follow.
I am encouraged by new enemies of Daesh; France, Germany, and Russia look willing to help, as the the US continues to pivot westward toward the Pacific.
Hopefully, the Battle of Ramadi will bear similar fruit, and more good news will continue to follow.
I am encouraged by new enemies of Daesh; France, Germany, and Russia look willing to help, as the the US continues to pivot westward toward the Pacific.
2
Ramadi's recapture is an important symbolic victory for the Iraqi government and Iraqi army, who as the article stated suffered a deep loss of confidence and charisma last year when they ran from Mosul and Anbar. More important is the effort by al-Abadi to include the Sunnis in the political process for the first time since Saddam fell in 2003. As important as military victories against ISIS are, the idea of Sunni extremism will not be defeated until Sunnis feel that they are represented justly in a democratic central government, or at least treated with respect and autonomy in a federalist system. The previous effort by the Iraqi army to stem insurgency from 2005-2014 looked more like a Shi'a occupation of a foreign land than a national army policing its own territory, and it resulted in the collapse of vital local support for the army.
Without local support, such victories will remain purely symbolic, as extremists have shown for years that they can operate with impunity even in territories that the government nominally controls and achieve their goals through terrorism.
Without local support, such victories will remain purely symbolic, as extremists have shown for years that they can operate with impunity even in territories that the government nominally controls and achieve their goals through terrorism.
4
What a relief! indeed a triumphant moment in the Iraq war; the retaking of Ramadi. It might seem like a deja vu but this time it's real; this key battle is the one that would end all battles. It's the true end of the war in Iraq; mission accomplished - again.
Vice President Dick Cheney was right after all, saying back in 2005 that insurgency in Iraq is "in the last throes". The surge worked after all, and Obama's strategy - training/bombing/special op - is paying off.
Saddam Husein/ Al Qaeda/ISIS/ whoever will come next, have been defeated. We could tell that the victory was just around the corner. Peace at last.
No doubt in years to come our grandchildren will be able share our sense of achievement and celebrate - or even participate - the next time we re-re-retake Ramadi (somewhere around 2025, during the second term of Clinton the II).
Vice President Dick Cheney was right after all, saying back in 2005 that insurgency in Iraq is "in the last throes". The surge worked after all, and Obama's strategy - training/bombing/special op - is paying off.
Saddam Husein/ Al Qaeda/ISIS/ whoever will come next, have been defeated. We could tell that the victory was just around the corner. Peace at last.
No doubt in years to come our grandchildren will be able share our sense of achievement and celebrate - or even participate - the next time we re-re-retake Ramadi (somewhere around 2025, during the second term of Clinton the II).
It shouldn't have fallen in the first place.
2
It is important for Ramadi to be taken back before summer for all of the tourists who will visit Iraq. The Ramada Inn of Ramadi is going to book up fast for the summer. Make your reservations now before it is to late.
1
The deeper problem with defending against ideological terrorism is that the source of the ideological motivation is greater than geo-political goals. You can't exact a price high enough from someone that is suicidal, and you can't offer a price high enough to someone whose sworn ideological goal is your utter destruction.
There were always a few (often unbalanced) in any given ideology who were so extreme; however, such a degree of extremity, by its very nature, precluded mass adherents among rational, moral adults. Global Islamic extremist terrorism is not unique in its phenomenon, but in its numbers.
That's why, I believe, the last 15 years have taught us that the most effective response to terrorism is strong defense. You can't defeat the ideology, and you can't bargain or reason with it. Pound Al Qaeda in Afghanistan, and ISIS pops up. Pound ISIS, and now the Taliban are popping back – it's wack-a-mole. It's not the territorial conquest that is the threat, but the extremist ideology on a mass scale.
The best you can do is keep fanatics and their fanaticism out of your country. That means strong borders, some level of profiling, and an all out war on their propaganda – which will mean some level of censorship. That war should mirror the war on Nazi propaganda in post-war Germany. Every vestige must be illegal. We can't shut down the internet sources, but we can arrest those who host, disseminate, and posses it – just like has been suggested for child pornography.
There were always a few (often unbalanced) in any given ideology who were so extreme; however, such a degree of extremity, by its very nature, precluded mass adherents among rational, moral adults. Global Islamic extremist terrorism is not unique in its phenomenon, but in its numbers.
That's why, I believe, the last 15 years have taught us that the most effective response to terrorism is strong defense. You can't defeat the ideology, and you can't bargain or reason with it. Pound Al Qaeda in Afghanistan, and ISIS pops up. Pound ISIS, and now the Taliban are popping back – it's wack-a-mole. It's not the territorial conquest that is the threat, but the extremist ideology on a mass scale.
The best you can do is keep fanatics and their fanaticism out of your country. That means strong borders, some level of profiling, and an all out war on their propaganda – which will mean some level of censorship. That war should mirror the war on Nazi propaganda in post-war Germany. Every vestige must be illegal. We can't shut down the internet sources, but we can arrest those who host, disseminate, and posses it – just like has been suggested for child pornography.
21
Would this include the hate speech and blatant racism being promoted by the GOP? Why was this letter picked by the NYT editorial board? Do they see where this type of censorship will lead? I see our country overrun by Tea Party extremists supported by the media. Are we going to censor the media and outlaw the Tea Party also? I think not.
2
ISIS did not pop up because we pounded Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan, it popped up because we invaded Iraq.
Looking for a simple approach that we can always follow: always defense or always offense is simplistic and childish.
And the concept that we need censorship here to repel ISIS is frankly insane. Their ideology is not going to be attractive to any substantial group of US residents. Of course if we start profiling all Muslims and arresting people for possessing "Islamist propaganda"...Which would be defined how exactly? How much like McCarthyism will this be? Let's be clear Joe McCarthy did not help repel Communism, he helped spread Communist thought by his ridiculous claims.
Looking for a simple approach that we can always follow: always defense or always offense is simplistic and childish.
And the concept that we need censorship here to repel ISIS is frankly insane. Their ideology is not going to be attractive to any substantial group of US residents. Of course if we start profiling all Muslims and arresting people for possessing "Islamist propaganda"...Which would be defined how exactly? How much like McCarthyism will this be? Let's be clear Joe McCarthy did not help repel Communism, he helped spread Communist thought by his ridiculous claims.
1
Undoubtedly just as important as it was to avoid the fall of Saigon back in 19... ... oh, never mind.
Really, Cheney and Rumsfeld's war in the middle east is as meaningless as was Vietnam. But tell that to the parents of the young soldiers maimed, killed, and forever scarred by their experiences, not to mention all the opportunities lost in pursuit of war profiteering.
Really, Cheney and Rumsfeld's war in the middle east is as meaningless as was Vietnam. But tell that to the parents of the young soldiers maimed, killed, and forever scarred by their experiences, not to mention all the opportunities lost in pursuit of war profiteering.
4
Didn't the ARVINS (Army of the Republic of Vietnam), with the exception of a few elite Ranger and Special Forces units, turn tail and flee, dropping their weapons and equipment, while Americans did most of the heavy lifting when the going got tough? Why send Americans to defend people who will not fight to defend themselves?
Been there and done that (USN, Vietnam, Yankee Station 1969-1970), won the t-shirt and all the pretty little ribbons for being there!
Been there and done that (USN, Vietnam, Yankee Station 1969-1970), won the t-shirt and all the pretty little ribbons for being there!
3
"In recent months, the group has been routed from Tikrit, Baiji, Hawija, the Tishrin Dam and Sinjar by Iraqi and Kurdish forces. It is estimated that the group’s control of Iraqi territory has shrunk by 40 percent since last year."
Yet based on the latest polls, Americans believe ISIS is winning thanks to the Media and the GOP.
Back in 2014, right before the Midterms, the media and the GOP "sujet du jour" was EBOLA. It was supposed to kill us all. Gov Christie quarantined a brave nurse for no reason.
President Obama back then asked for calm and was blamed by the Press and Republicans for not doing enough. At the end, only 1 person died of Ebola in the U.S.
Yet based on the latest polls, Americans believe ISIS is winning thanks to the Media and the GOP.
Back in 2014, right before the Midterms, the media and the GOP "sujet du jour" was EBOLA. It was supposed to kill us all. Gov Christie quarantined a brave nurse for no reason.
President Obama back then asked for calm and was blamed by the Press and Republicans for not doing enough. At the end, only 1 person died of Ebola in the U.S.
6
Importance of retaking Ramadi is equal to importance to retaking Fallujah and is equal to importance of retaking Baghdad…
Do we know how many times throughout history those cities have changed the rulers? Nothing has ever been solved or improved.
Why?
Only after a mosquito lands down on our own nuts we learn that the violence cannot solve anything.
If the force could bring us the peace we would already have it for a couple of millenniums.
The military victories only bring us a temporary imbalance and create the conditions for the next war.
If you want the peace don’t wage the wars.
Military victories only teach the next generations to use the force to solve their disagreements.
Any military victory is the worst curse for the humanity that keeps us on the endless war path.
We should have learned this simple truth many centuries ago…
Do we know how many times throughout history those cities have changed the rulers? Nothing has ever been solved or improved.
Why?
Only after a mosquito lands down on our own nuts we learn that the violence cannot solve anything.
If the force could bring us the peace we would already have it for a couple of millenniums.
The military victories only bring us a temporary imbalance and create the conditions for the next war.
If you want the peace don’t wage the wars.
Military victories only teach the next generations to use the force to solve their disagreements.
Any military victory is the worst curse for the humanity that keeps us on the endless war path.
We should have learned this simple truth many centuries ago…
This sounds hopeful. It also sounds like President Obama does have a strategy, but doesn't consider it wise to blab about the details.
Sometimes I wonder if Republican so-called leaders would even deny the President a win against ISIS just to burnish their own chances to gain power.
Do some people feel that power is more important than the well-being of Americans, American interests, and innocent people all over the world? Scary thought that some people do not seem to care about humanity itself.
Sometimes I wonder if Republican so-called leaders would even deny the President a win against ISIS just to burnish their own chances to gain power.
Do some people feel that power is more important than the well-being of Americans, American interests, and innocent people all over the world? Scary thought that some people do not seem to care about humanity itself.
83
The people in the Republican Establishment have only one concern, themselves. They have demonstrated this for over thirty years and yet a large portion of electorate still hasn't figured it out. Mind boggling.
1
The unofficial spokesman for the neocon movement is Charles Krauthammer. He would have us believe that President W handed President Obama a magnificent victory on a silver platter. Then out of sheer spite Obama flushed Bush's gift down the toilet by withdrawing American troops from Iraq in accordance to the terms of the Status of Forces Agreement W signed shortly before he left office. Krauthammer did not consider that last point worthy of mention.
2
You do not have to wonder. Look at the coverage. For a couple years when there was not a single attack in this country by ISIS it was all we heard about. One lone wolf finally and it has been 24/7 ever since about how this dangerous threat. Since Newton Conn. 14 dead from a lone wolf not even an ISIS member is a catastrophe, but over 500 children under twelve killed by gun violence is of absolutely no concern. Obama daring to say ISIS Is being slowly contained is treated like ISIS took over ten countries when they have had no advances in months. And now when they take a major loss most media outlets don't even mention this today. How can any media outlet ignore this?
You answered the question. No doubt they would deny Obama the win. Anything to repudiate his Presidency. Anything to discredit him. Anything so a black man is never, ever seen as a competent President. The media, for the most part, is ignoring Ramadi despite it being a story that should be covered 24/7 for a week. If ISIS is totally wiped out in the next six months the right will forget they ever existed. Not a word will be spoken lest Obama be seen as a President who accomplished such a significant victory without ten trillion dollars in debt and barely any US soldiers lost. The right would be cheering and partying if ISIS were to succeed in a major attack taking many US lives. That is a sad indictment of the right.
You answered the question. No doubt they would deny Obama the win. Anything to repudiate his Presidency. Anything to discredit him. Anything so a black man is never, ever seen as a competent President. The media, for the most part, is ignoring Ramadi despite it being a story that should be covered 24/7 for a week. If ISIS is totally wiped out in the next six months the right will forget they ever existed. Not a word will be spoken lest Obama be seen as a President who accomplished such a significant victory without ten trillion dollars in debt and barely any US soldiers lost. The right would be cheering and partying if ISIS were to succeed in a major attack taking many US lives. That is a sad indictment of the right.
1
The importance of retaking Ramadi is that this is the first of a significant reversal of fortune for ISIL. And the importance of that is manifold, not least of which is the blowhard, fear mongering, chicken hawks on the right will have to invent some other horror to scare the gullible into voting for them. (Chances of an American being murdered within the next two years by a Muslim terrorist 1:20,000,000...in a car accident 1:100) Prepare yourselves, Americans, Fox News will soon be marketing the War on Cars.
2
In addition to military and political pressure, the Islamic State must also be opposed theologically, since its theological claims and self-understanding are an important part of the movement. A theological understanding that Sunnis are the true Muslims can slide over into an understanding that the Islamic State represents true Islam, and makes it difficult for Sunnis to live with Shiites.
"The group exploits the anger of Iraq’s Sunni minority, which has been disenfranchised from Iraqi politics since Saddam Hussein was overthrown in 2003". This is baloney.
ISIS is gaining ground in Libya, Yemen and Afghanistan. All Sunni countries. Shiites in Bahreim or Saudi Arabia are not turning to Terrorist organizations, even though they are disenfranchised from their respective countries politic. Why are Sunni the only group that turns to terrorism?
Sunni extremism is the problem, thanks to Saudi Arabia.
ISIS is gaining ground in Libya, Yemen and Afghanistan. All Sunni countries. Shiites in Bahreim or Saudi Arabia are not turning to Terrorist organizations, even though they are disenfranchised from their respective countries politic. Why are Sunni the only group that turns to terrorism?
Sunni extremism is the problem, thanks to Saudi Arabia.
2
There is always much political debate about strategy. We often frame the debate on whether this or that President is doing the right thing or if it will work. Most times, there is no right answer. It just takes a lot of time and hard work by the US and its allies. Several years is a reasonable time frame. Our society is too obsessed with instant answers and solutions. The 24/7 cable news channels don't help solve the problem but just exacerbates it.
As I see the bombs explode cities, I'm reminded of the quote from the Vietnam War - the war of my generation -
"It became necessary to destroy the town to save it"
"It became necessary to destroy the town to save it"
3
Follow the money. Terrorism is an industry. It has income and expenses, profits and losses. Someone is investing in terrorism.
If the New York times wants to editorialize about the instability across the middle east it ought to investigate the root causes which are the protection of existing wealth or the capturing of new or future wealth.
Talk about the fact that what we are seeing partly or almost wholly is a start of the "fossil wars." Russia sees this as do Iran, and Saudi Arabia.
ISIS leaders are socking away millions of dollars in Swiss bank accounts and will slither away to build a new villa somewhere. They are not going to die heroes.
Only the poor soldiers are going to die for their country. It's a mess. Religion, criminality, political games all in one huge boiling pot.
Please work up a little more sweat digging into what lies beneath this mess so the US and its allies can best leverage their efforts and blood.
If the New York times wants to editorialize about the instability across the middle east it ought to investigate the root causes which are the protection of existing wealth or the capturing of new or future wealth.
Talk about the fact that what we are seeing partly or almost wholly is a start of the "fossil wars." Russia sees this as do Iran, and Saudi Arabia.
ISIS leaders are socking away millions of dollars in Swiss bank accounts and will slither away to build a new villa somewhere. They are not going to die heroes.
Only the poor soldiers are going to die for their country. It's a mess. Religion, criminality, political games all in one huge boiling pot.
Please work up a little more sweat digging into what lies beneath this mess so the US and its allies can best leverage their efforts and blood.
4
It's called Forever War. And it is now the de facto U.S. foreign policy, operating even more dramatically than Bin Laden hoped it would as a result of his 9/11 attacks!
Congressional deficit hawks and U.S. taxpayers seem oblivious to the cost. But there are great rivers of borrowed money flowing from our Heimat, er, I mean Homeland, to the Middle East. Thanks, China and Japan.
War is peace. Ignorance is strength. Freedom is slavery.
Congressional deficit hawks and U.S. taxpayers seem oblivious to the cost. But there are great rivers of borrowed money flowing from our Heimat, er, I mean Homeland, to the Middle East. Thanks, China and Japan.
War is peace. Ignorance is strength. Freedom is slavery.
12
A little bit early to celebrate.
4
"To defeat ISIS in the long run, Mr. Abadi will have to convince Iraqi politicians to allow Sunni leaders more autonomy and a role in the government."
Maybe it's time to reconsider Biden's plan to divide Iraq between the Shia, Sunnis, and Kurds. The Iranian-inspired government of Iraq has pushed many Sunnis into ISIS. If moderate Sunni were able to operate their own country, ISIS would lose much of its support.
Maybe it's time to reconsider Biden's plan to divide Iraq between the Shia, Sunnis, and Kurds. The Iranian-inspired government of Iraq has pushed many Sunnis into ISIS. If moderate Sunni were able to operate their own country, ISIS would lose much of its support.
2
"Retaking Ramadi"
Perhaps there are lessons as to why we lost it! Could it be an agenda item that said we'd pull out (no matter what the cost)?
Retaking it would have been unnecessary had we not created to power vacuum that resulted in its loss.
Perhaps there are lessons as to why we lost it! Could it be an agenda item that said we'd pull out (no matter what the cost)?
Retaking it would have been unnecessary had we not created to power vacuum that resulted in its loss.
1
This is a reasonable editorial as far as it goes.
But the last part is to make a link between America's interest and defeating ISIS and like-minded criminal ideologies. As desirable as it is for Shia and Sunni to achieve a modus vivendi in Iraq, America's prime interest is to destroy root and branch the people who threaten it from afar and have inspired or applauded numerous domestic terrorisms on U.S. soil since and including 9/11.
And so when those events occur here, or in Paris, they must be recognized for what they are which is a manifestation of that foreign antagonism and hatred, and not (mainly) a gun control issue.
But the last part is to make a link between America's interest and defeating ISIS and like-minded criminal ideologies. As desirable as it is for Shia and Sunni to achieve a modus vivendi in Iraq, America's prime interest is to destroy root and branch the people who threaten it from afar and have inspired or applauded numerous domestic terrorisms on U.S. soil since and including 9/11.
And so when those events occur here, or in Paris, they must be recognized for what they are which is a manifestation of that foreign antagonism and hatred, and not (mainly) a gun control issue.
The brutal, barbaric, awful life under the militants should give pause to any thinking to join them, and harden us against any tolerance of their existence. We have little political will here though, unfortunately, and no red lines and no deterrence of our enemies.
10
So your response to the liberation of Ramadi is to claim that we have little political will? What is wrong with you? Because Obama isn't beating his chest like a gorilla we aren't deterring our enemies? You Republicans are useless. You create a huge mess by invading a country that was not even remotely a threat to us and now you are doing everything in your power to undermine our Commander in Chief while he's dealing with real threats which you Republicans helped create.
Go back to Russia!!!
Go back to Russia!!!
1
Backing al-Maliki was one of the worst decisions in George W. Bush's failed presidency. Of course, the invasion of Iraq itself was a monumental mistake; but it could have been mitigated, or even reversed, if the post-invasion decisions hadn't been so disastrous.
77
Logistics and competent leadership. What this shows is that, if Iraq provides its soldiers with plenty of food and ammunition and competent leadership, they can defeat the threats they confront. What the soldiers lacked when ISIS prevailed was food, ammunition and competent leaders.
3
It goes to the credit of the United States for training the Iraqi forces to take on Isis. Earlier, there was reluctance on the part of Iraqi army to engage with Isis on ground due to the brutality of the terrorist organization. The victory at Ramadi will instill confidence in the Iraqi army to now go all out against the Isis.
As you have correctly pointed the Iraqi government should stop its discriminatory policies against Sunni and give their due by inducting them in the government. The Iraqi army, which had earlier purged the Sunni officers, should make genuine attempts to reinstate them in the army. Any future peace efforts impinge on winning the hearts and minds of the minorities.
There is still hope as we are lately seeing that the Sunnis, in spite of being discriminated by the Shi'ite government, is willing to integrate with the mainstream, as they have realized that supporting the Isis is far more a dangerous option.
As you have correctly pointed the Iraqi government should stop its discriminatory policies against Sunni and give their due by inducting them in the government. The Iraqi army, which had earlier purged the Sunni officers, should make genuine attempts to reinstate them in the army. Any future peace efforts impinge on winning the hearts and minds of the minorities.
There is still hope as we are lately seeing that the Sunnis, in spite of being discriminated by the Shi'ite government, is willing to integrate with the mainstream, as they have realized that supporting the Isis is far more a dangerous option.
1
They wont hold it a month after we leave them to try to function on their own.
3
Amazing that when you use brains to apply force, things work better!!! Hooray for our smart president who has resisted vast displays of firepower and bravado. Our disastrous folly earlier in Iraq was compounded from arrogance and ignorance. And worse still, those attitudes were paraded with pride. Moving forward with a better understanding of underlying conflicts, and working actively to avoid exacerbating them, bring me hope for the future.
7
Retaking Ramadi is indeed good news, but the better news is that it was accomplished by Iraqi forces without too much American involvement or casualties.
Hopefully the Ramadi victory can serve as a blueprint for further actions against ISIS in Iraq and Syria and stop the call for more American "boots on the ground."
Hopefully the Ramadi victory can serve as a blueprint for further actions against ISIS in Iraq and Syria and stop the call for more American "boots on the ground."
3
This is a positive development, emblematic of President Obama's measured approach to Middle East chaos. Whether or not he uses the term "radical Islamic terrorism" is the rhetoric of fools who, for illusory political gain, would discard an essential western tool in this struggle: peaceful Muslims who despise ISIS even more than Americans and Europeans do.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
www.endthemadnessnow.org
7
IT's great that, at least recently, the Iraqi Army has come alive; however, two questions still remain:
1. Since the army is mostly composed or Shias, how will they treat the Sunnis who live in Anbar Provence? In the past, they have not gotten along with the locals, causing some to rebel--and even join-up with ISIS.
2. Is there certainty that the Jihadist fighters of ISIS have truly been defeated, at least in the areas of Ramadi in question? Or might they have just sunk into the local populace, and escaped to the areas still controlled by their own forces?
http://thetruthoncommonsense.com
1. Since the army is mostly composed or Shias, how will they treat the Sunnis who live in Anbar Provence? In the past, they have not gotten along with the locals, causing some to rebel--and even join-up with ISIS.
2. Is there certainty that the Jihadist fighters of ISIS have truly been defeated, at least in the areas of Ramadi in question? Or might they have just sunk into the local populace, and escaped to the areas still controlled by their own forces?
http://thetruthoncommonsense.com
2
The Shiite-Sunni fuss and feathers
Discourages friendly togethers,
The doctrinal split
Means a seething snit
Of sullen and steep stormy weathers.
Entente between the battling Two
A devilish hard thing to do,
Well intentioned meddling
And persistent peddling
May end as vain effort we'll rue.
Discourages friendly togethers,
The doctrinal split
Means a seething snit
Of sullen and steep stormy weathers.
Entente between the battling Two
A devilish hard thing to do,
Well intentioned meddling
And persistent peddling
May end as vain effort we'll rue.
1
It's great that this happened and there was finally important cooperation between different tribal interests.
But I was taking aback by how much American support and money was needed to partially win what is admittedly a narrow mission. Just a few long months ago, we were reading about the retreat and humiliating, almost running away of American trained Iraqi forces. At the time, I like many felt the game was over and we should get out as fast as we could..
But in this region progress is very important. It shows anything is possible if you throw resources at it. The big question is , How long will this victory hold up? The US simply doesn't have the will or the budget to proportionally pay for every single operation to retake foreign lands.
Nobody can claim that this victory assures success which can only come about with a strong desire among Iraqis to replace ISIS nihilism with national pride.
But I was taking aback by how much American support and money was needed to partially win what is admittedly a narrow mission. Just a few long months ago, we were reading about the retreat and humiliating, almost running away of American trained Iraqi forces. At the time, I like many felt the game was over and we should get out as fast as we could..
But in this region progress is very important. It shows anything is possible if you throw resources at it. The big question is , How long will this victory hold up? The US simply doesn't have the will or the budget to proportionally pay for every single operation to retake foreign lands.
Nobody can claim that this victory assures success which can only come about with a strong desire among Iraqis to replace ISIS nihilism with national pride.
19
This is certainly a positive development as is the fact that ISIS has not advanced into any additional areas of Iraq or Syria since this past May. On the other hand, has anyone at the State Department noticed how much of Libya has fallen to this organization of jihadists? Last I looked, Libya was larger than Iraq and Syria put together. Its population is relatively small but considering how much of the country extends south into the open desert and how close its northern shore lies to the European continent I'd say we all need to spend some quality time thinking about what has to happen to ensure that thousands of "holy warriors" don't simply descend on Libya even as they begin to confront losses on the Arabian Peninsula. ISIS has to go out of business, not merely move to a new location.
32
All of the victories against ISIS aren't worth spit if we are still friendly with the Saudis. Saudi Islam is our enemy. The Times only prints about a third of the anti Saudis comments, let's see if this one gets in.
@Blue State: Heck, they seem to print all of MY anti-Saudi comments. And, you're right, Salafist theology is the enemy and the House of Saud the enabler.
This is a significant development but it is hardly the fall of Berlin. News reports indicate that Ramadi was being defended by about 300 troops and the Iraq army had 20 times that many, plus the advantage of US air power. Still nearly 25% of the city is still in enemy hands. I don't think General Patton would have been impressed.
ISIS is not unstoppable. Their surge into Iraq was predicated by a lack any any opposition. ISIS is very good at subduing unarmed civilians. They would have a much more difficult time against a battalion of US Marines.
This partial victory in progress has cost the US taxpayer a bundle. We are still hemorrhaging money to pay for these operations. Now we are supposed to cough up another $50 million to rebuild Ramadi. I'd like to see whose pockets that money ends up in.
It is alway good to see ISIS receive a solid blow, but this victory is being played up for political gain. It's a "see, we know what we are doing" media campaign. It has as much to do with attempting to vindicate US strategy as it does Iraqi political strategy.
Iraq is still a fragmented nation, with a fragmented people. This small, partial victory does not unite them. We should not kid ourselves about how much farther victory against ISIS remains.
ISIS is not unstoppable. Their surge into Iraq was predicated by a lack any any opposition. ISIS is very good at subduing unarmed civilians. They would have a much more difficult time against a battalion of US Marines.
This partial victory in progress has cost the US taxpayer a bundle. We are still hemorrhaging money to pay for these operations. Now we are supposed to cough up another $50 million to rebuild Ramadi. I'd like to see whose pockets that money ends up in.
It is alway good to see ISIS receive a solid blow, but this victory is being played up for political gain. It's a "see, we know what we are doing" media campaign. It has as much to do with attempting to vindicate US strategy as it does Iraqi political strategy.
Iraq is still a fragmented nation, with a fragmented people. This small, partial victory does not unite them. We should not kid ourselves about how much farther victory against ISIS remains.
75
Iraq is not a nation. It is a post war construct of Britain and France. Iraq is an artificial concatenation of disparate and incompatible ethnies and sects. Uniting Iraq is a baseless concept steeped into an absence of understanding of the real world.
3
Better than nothing.
1
Maybe we should stop describing this war as ISIS vs. Iraq and begin calling it by its real name, Shiite vs. Sunni. What are we doing involved in a Muslim religious war on the other side of the world?
4