Let them have the drugs. Who cares? This is not a "sport" as in an "Olympic endeavor". This is a business. Another opportunity for show business to give the people what they want: a show! "Professional Football" is not much different than "Professional Wrestling". Who are we kidding?
The NFL is just a few human clicks from being a "coliseum event". Let them have the drugs and a bunch of money. They'll die young from concussions and the drugs. But we don't care. It's a show and besides....we love fantasy football. We really should call it "fantasy fantasy football".
There's nothing like show business...dah, dah, dah. Football a sport? What a joke. Give them the drugs. It makes for better TV.
The NFL is just a few human clicks from being a "coliseum event". Let them have the drugs and a bunch of money. They'll die young from concussions and the drugs. But we don't care. It's a show and besides....we love fantasy football. We really should call it "fantasy fantasy football".
There's nothing like show business...dah, dah, dah. Football a sport? What a joke. Give them the drugs. It makes for better TV.
I want to make this quite clear. I don't care whether an athlete chooses to do everything they can to better their performance or not. Really, doing something deemed illegal hasn't made mediocre players great and those "enhancements" never will.
1
If you have a "broken neck" that needs to heal fast so you can continue to work and make money, wouldn't be more stupid not to take HGH? ... No matter what your profession.
What kind of employer tells a young man whose triceps has withered and right arm turned into a frail reed not to take HGH or other drug which may cure him? Especially when the conditions are caused by work-related injuries? Isn't there a difference between taking drugs to bulk up and taking drugs to cure medical conditions? Of course, who would expect Goodell's office to have any interest in player welfare or to show any attempt to make reasonable distinctions?
2
People should take both Al Jazeera is saying and Mr. Manning's denials in context. I thought Lance was clean but turns out he was not.
1
What Manning doesn't deny is that HGH was shipped to his home in his wife's name. He states that's her medical record has nothing to do with him. While there are legitimate medical reasons for HGH, they are very rare. 90% of the HGH is used for sports performance enhancement.
1. Manning is driven to stay in the game. No one would undergo the surgery and risks at his age and wealth unless driven.
2. Manning home did receive HGH.
3. Manning's recovery from his serious medical conditions and the corrective surgeries in a short period is extraordinary and consistent with HGH use.
It will be impossible to prove Manning took the HGH shipped to his home but it is likewise impossible for Manning to dismiss the facts and the legitimate suspicion. Manning had to know that if HGH was being shipped to his home, as the evidence suggests, that given his extraordinary recovery from serious conditions, it would raise questions that he took it to recover.
1. Manning is driven to stay in the game. No one would undergo the surgery and risks at his age and wealth unless driven.
2. Manning home did receive HGH.
3. Manning's recovery from his serious medical conditions and the corrective surgeries in a short period is extraordinary and consistent with HGH use.
It will be impossible to prove Manning took the HGH shipped to his home but it is likewise impossible for Manning to dismiss the facts and the legitimate suspicion. Manning had to know that if HGH was being shipped to his home, as the evidence suggests, that given his extraordinary recovery from serious conditions, it would raise questions that he took it to recover.
4
Ashley Manning needs to come forward and disclose information about her prescription from the clinic. Is that fair? No. Is that a violation of her privacy? Of course. But it's the situation she's in. She's married to a high profile, highly-paid star quarterback in the NFL, recovering from an injury, and HGH was sent to her house. It doesn't look good. If she stays silent, they're hiding something.
2
It doesn't seem as though people have watched the documentary before commenting. Sly is hanging out with a professional baseball player talking about PEDS. The guy provides PEDS to professional athletes, its his JOB. Recanting hours and hours of taped conversations as lies is completely absurd. I don't think the truth is going to be pretty, the NFL PED/Painkiller use is out of control.
2
Are you seriously asking us to believe a report from Al Jazeera? Man, you're stupider than I thought you were.
By the way, there is no Santa Claus.
By the way, there is no Santa Claus.
3
All the people questioning the credibility of the evidence need to WATCH THE REPORT FOR YOURSELVES FIRST.
1
If these accusations were made against tom Brady, people would assume they were true without question. All you have to know about manning, is he hired Ari fletcher, Bush43 press agent who defended the invasion of Iraq for those mythical WMDs, to come up with his PR defense.
11
Why people are not allowed to take a drug that could help them recover from injuries and keep their strength up is beyond me. Just more oppressive anti-drug hysteria, same as it ever was.
7
This is so wrong, Michael. Not every player uses performance enhancing drugs and I would be willing to bet that the majority do not. Shame on The New York Times, which is increasingly going downhill, in my opinion, for publishing this garbage.
3
I believe too many commenters are conflating the real problem of doping in sports with the illusion of evidence against Payton Manning. The source was unreliable to begin with and has recanted. There is no evidence of anything but sloppy journalism against Al Jazeera. To lump Manning into the group of PED users is, based upon what we have seen, unfair at best and defamatory at worst in my opinion.
3
The report had source talking on camera. He knew Manning and his wife attended the clinic. He knew the company mailed HGH to the Manning household.
If it looks like a duck...but it could be worse, you know, un-deflated footballs...
If it looks like a duck...but it could be worse, you know, un-deflated footballs...
3
I don't think it's important to test football players for steroids and HGH.
I think it's very important to test police officers for steroids and HGH.
I think it's very important to test police officers for steroids and HGH.
7
At some time in the next 10 years, the major sports leagues will acknowledge that gambling is key to their success, and will seek to profit directly from the connection. At that point, with some legal and regulatory responsibility to provide a legitimate contest, they'll create real testing programs and deal with doping more effectively.
1
If HGH truly is beneficial for expediting healing than it should be available to all of us. Is my ailing spine no less important than a pro athlete? Make it legal for all, if it's safe and effective. Isn't that the point of using medicine, to heal.
3
Harry these drugs are available to you whereas they are not to amateur, pro and masters athletes because they are banned as performance enhancing drugs. Unless you plan to be at the Olympics you can use them as much as you can get a prescription for them and you can afford them! Or you can get them illegally but I would recommend against using them except under the care of a doctor.
What does this line mean? "M.L.B. responded that it cashiered this investigator." I'm not familiar with the use of the word "cashiered" in this context. Is the writer saying the MLB "paid" for the services of the investigator? But that wouldn't make sense, since the thrust of the sentence is to suggest the MLB is attempting to discredit the investigator. Hmmmmm. . . .
1
cashiered = fired
In this context, cashiered means fired. They fired the investigator who made that claim. It was originally a military term that means to relieve an officer of his or her duties as a punishment for dereliction or other problem.
It means in the context they either fired him or discredited him!
As a cancer survivor, I remember cycling in Austin with thoughts praising Lance and his courage in beating cancer. It seemed so real and amazing. That statue was toppled by his own arrogance in time. With that in mind I watched the special report last night on Al Jazeeera America and wondered how much of it might be true -- everything? When one considers how vehemently the professional athletes fought testing while growing to behemoth-like proportions, concerned if at all by just one or two (scheduled ?) blood tests per year, isn't it reasonable to conceive that just by statistics alone, some of them were/are doping?
6
Steroids are a key tool of medicine. Almost all of us have used them to enhance our health, improve recovery, save lives, prevent pregnancy, etc. These men put their bodies through enormous physical stress and pain on a daily basis - they need steroids, especially those that aid in recovery, far more than the rest of us. At this point, anyone can find a doctor to proscribe them testosterone for age deficiency. Commercials on TV shoe the need for men to take it so that they can go boating or take a hike. Yet, those people whose entire career depends on their physical body, whom the problems of advancing age and current/past injury, has the most impact on what they do every day, these people are denied the drugs commonly prescribed to the rest of us. The hypocrisy of this is overwhelming.
4
As a former Olympic Games interpreter and a sports reporter, I have seen drugs hard and soft used by athletes not so soft. Yes, money is at issue. Yes, the demand that performance be not just excellent, but "enhanced" is there, too. Yes, this is an international phenomenon. What to do? Should there be two classes of athletes: Those who "use" in one group and those who remain "clean" in the other one? I believe that the Vox Populi would be dismayed to have to watch televised presentations of just the clean. We who buy subscriptions to these broadcasts, who watch the sports on television or in stadia, we who buy tickets or even the products sponsored, we are encouraging the Big Bucks players not to buck the system that will pay, as this report states, 4 or 5 times as much for a player who will "use". What to do? Can the $$$$ in sports be got rid of? Unlikely. Will drug use continue? Likely. As "Jim" comments below, "you do what you have to do", and "it is common sense." In that latter regard, I might comment, as an interpreter: "Common sense" is translated into French as "good sense," and it is hardly too often good. What to do? Watch athletes destroy themselves and die young. It is our modern version of a Roman Coliseum.
1
What we do is get more realistic about how performance enhancing drugs are used. IF the drug can legitimately be used out of competition to recover from injury and not have the residual benefit of enhancing performance then I say go for it. The system already allows for a temporary use exemption (TUE) and perhaps we need to look more closely at this program to enhance its use. But you can bet the cheaters will try to take advantage of this to enhance performance!
If you have some experience with orthopedic injuries, it is more than likely that Mr. Manning had help from the Pharmacy, legal and not. Yet, who are we to point a finger? Mr. Manning's career was on the line and his recovery is something we cannot blame him for.
Given the value of HGH, it is high time we carefully open its use to many an injury --but let us stop deceiving ourselves. We make the players win by all means necessary, and then we take hypocritical stances.
Given the value of HGH, it is high time we carefully open its use to many an injury --but let us stop deceiving ourselves. We make the players win by all means necessary, and then we take hypocritical stances.
2
Two points in regard to this and a considerable number of unhappy posters:
1. Michael Powell writes the Sports of The Times I think in a role as columnist not strictly as a reporter; in other words, he expresses opinions on sports matters and I generally find him informed and entertaining.
2. "Rather the shock would be to discover that more than a few men in this morally compromised sport are completely clean. In the last two decades, the weight of N.F.L. linemen has jumped by 50, 60, 70 pounds, and men the size of linebackers play wide receiver."
Many posters, prone perhaps to a degree of hero worship, neglect that this is the truly disturbing matter that he highlights in his column.
1. Michael Powell writes the Sports of The Times I think in a role as columnist not strictly as a reporter; in other words, he expresses opinions on sports matters and I generally find him informed and entertaining.
2. "Rather the shock would be to discover that more than a few men in this morally compromised sport are completely clean. In the last two decades, the weight of N.F.L. linemen has jumped by 50, 60, 70 pounds, and men the size of linebackers play wide receiver."
Many posters, prone perhaps to a degree of hero worship, neglect that this is the truly disturbing matter that he highlights in his column.
1
The pattern in these cases is familiar: denial, louder denial, loudest denial and then a soft mea culpa. As someone who has used HGH under a doctor's care (outside of the U.S.), I can assure you that it works incredibly well as a tool in recovery and rehabilitation. Having benefited from HGH, I guess am more shocked when professional athletes in football claim that they have never used it. When your health and your livelihood are on the line, you do what you have to do. It is not cheating, it is common sense. The outcome of this story will not impact my view on Manning. He is among the greatest QB's of all time and deserves to be a first ballot Hall of Fame selection.
5
There is too much money at stake in professional sports, to say nothing of the careers of coaches, general managers, and players and the irrational desires of fans, sportswriters, and corporate sponsors, to rule out cheating by any player, on any team, at any time.
Professional sports is business. Big business. Like any business, corners will be cut and there is a culture that encourages that if doing so will increase profit. It's long past time for Americans to give up their naive ideas about professional sports really work.
I have no idea whether or not Mr. Manning took HGH, but what difference does it make if he did or did not? Performance-enhancing drugs are part and parcel of American sports culture, whether we like it or not, and that is not going to change as long as billions are in play.
Professional sports is business. Big business. Like any business, corners will be cut and there is a culture that encourages that if doing so will increase profit. It's long past time for Americans to give up their naive ideas about professional sports really work.
I have no idea whether or not Mr. Manning took HGH, but what difference does it make if he did or did not? Performance-enhancing drugs are part and parcel of American sports culture, whether we like it or not, and that is not going to change as long as billions are in play.
3
What is hard to understand is how professional sports has allowed salaries to become totally out of whack with social utility. We pay doctors a lot because their social utility is high and their skill is rare. Athletes have minimal social utility, other than we live vicariously through them which is a huge mistake. Today we pay marginal athletes millions of dollars. so the motive to use PEDs is huge.
For example Jonathon Bernier the goalie for the Toronto Maple Leafs is paid $4 million per year and he cannot stop a bad joke! PS - I am not under any circumstances suggesting Bernier is using PEDs. He is not. But his salary is completely out of proportion to his skill level! It is professional sport itself with its billions that has created and exacerbated the PED problem.
For example Jonathon Bernier the goalie for the Toronto Maple Leafs is paid $4 million per year and he cannot stop a bad joke! PS - I am not under any circumstances suggesting Bernier is using PEDs. He is not. But his salary is completely out of proportion to his skill level! It is professional sport itself with its billions that has created and exacerbated the PED problem.
1
Dig as much as you feel is professionally necessary. It these allegations turn out to be correct you will have toppled another hero and the rest of his life will be torture.
If on the other hand, these allegations can not be substantiated or they turn out to be false, exactly what are you and The New York Times prepared to do to erase the stain on Mr. Manning's reputation?
If you are going to "open this box a little wider", please include yourself, your editor, Mr. Collins, Mr. Sly and Al Jazeera in the process. Under these circumstances, anything less would be the journalistic equivalent of doping.
If on the other hand, these allegations can not be substantiated or they turn out to be false, exactly what are you and The New York Times prepared to do to erase the stain on Mr. Manning's reputation?
If you are going to "open this box a little wider", please include yourself, your editor, Mr. Collins, Mr. Sly and Al Jazeera in the process. Under these circumstances, anything less would be the journalistic equivalent of doping.
10
I could have sworn i heard this story before, does Lance Armstrong ring a bell? Peyton Manning should change his name to Lance Armstrong, just so there is no confusion.
3
There is a huge difference between Lance Armstrong and Peyton Manning. Armstrong is a narcissistic serial cheat and liar, who purposely and intentionally used PEDs to defraud cycling and cancer victims.
Anyone who knows and understand Manning either personally or by reputation knows Manning has the integrity to respect his profession and his fans!
Anyone who knows and understand Manning either personally or by reputation knows Manning has the integrity to respect his profession and his fans!
Say it ain't so, Peyton.
"Our nation turns it's lonely eyes to you..."
"Our nation turns it's lonely eyes to you..."
2
I assume that a significant percentage of NFL players are using performance enhancing drugs. As business people, with their health and well being on the line, they would be crazy not to. If I were in their place I would think of it as the equivalent of corporate espionage. Everyone knows it is going on and if you don't protect yourself by outthinking the competition you are going to get squashed.
1
If, as the author writes, the person who made the claims against Manning, Charles Sly, admitted that everything he said was a "boast and a life," why are the questions about Manning's HGH use still described as "nagging"? Doesn't this confession invalidate the Al-Jazeera article? Or are we just too accustomed to discrediting athletes as a matter of course? Am I missing something?
6
Because we don't necessarily take a liar's word for it about when it was he lied.
1
You must not have watched Sly's "recantation." Here you go.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sf2-8V0K3oM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sf2-8V0K3oM
1
The proverbial gun was held to this guys head. Sports entertainment =and the show must go on.
The news media should be reminded that their job is to report the news....not create it.
7
I'm still a pretty stalwart college football fan, although I'm trying to squash qualms. As for all aspects of the NFL, lets hope that it goes the way of the dodo.
The real issue is testing. No one saw the extent of doping in cycling, even with almost continuous testing. Pro football, baseball, tennis, etc etc, do any of them have a truly rigorous testing procedure?
1
The problem in cycling was not enough unannounced out of competition testing and omerta. It costs a ton of money to combat drugs in sport, just like the so-called regular "war on drugs"!
Of course doping is rampant in football: size always matters, it's physically punishing, and the stakes are very high. It's a perfect storm and one can only assume there are a large number of players doping in one way or another to compete or stay on top or recover or get bigger/better or extend careers.
But I don't really care. Just as each player needs to decide if the potential health risks of repeated concussions and other physical stresses are worth it, so too they must decide if ingesting various drugs is worth it.
As the example of cycling has amply demonstrated: there is no way to stop doping -- and in football, this would seem even more improbable. Let's accept it and move on, allow the over-juiced gladiators to go out and bash into each other each week while we sit eating nachos. Go USA.
But I don't really care. Just as each player needs to decide if the potential health risks of repeated concussions and other physical stresses are worth it, so too they must decide if ingesting various drugs is worth it.
As the example of cycling has amply demonstrated: there is no way to stop doping -- and in football, this would seem even more improbable. Let's accept it and move on, allow the over-juiced gladiators to go out and bash into each other each week while we sit eating nachos. Go USA.
4
If Manning is guilty - there should be documented proof - right now its all speculation and innuendo.
9
The NFL didn't need any proof, documented or otherwise, to "investigate" and punish Brady. They had nothing, but held him responsible for their belief that he had "general awareness" of something not being on the up and up. I just think their rules and standards need to be consistent.
Let's flip this - Al Jazeera is part of an Islamic extremist plot to discredit Western culture by going after prominent celebrities and sports figures in the US. Where is my evidence? I don't have any but it makes for a good story.
9
The whole anti-PED effort is silly and futile. They are adults and should be able to take whatever a Doctor prescribes, and they seem to find a way to do so anyway.
The 2 reasons cited for banning PED's both fail.
1) Players' health; Football itself is much more dangerous than HGH or Steroids.
2) Fairness and historical comparisons: Why is the hyperbaric chamber OK and HGH not? Manning was also doing ECCP - a series of pressure cuffs are inflated around the legs in a sequence to increase blood flow. How is that fair to current or historic competitors?
The 2 reasons cited for banning PED's both fail.
1) Players' health; Football itself is much more dangerous than HGH or Steroids.
2) Fairness and historical comparisons: Why is the hyperbaric chamber OK and HGH not? Manning was also doing ECCP - a series of pressure cuffs are inflated around the legs in a sequence to increase blood flow. How is that fair to current or historic competitors?
1
I remember very similar comments during all those times when the spandex fanboys were denying denying, denying that Lance was anything other than pure and without reproach. About the time the evidence started pouring in they started to go with "well, PEDs shouldn't be banned.
Good job getting ahead of the curve.
Good job getting ahead of the curve.
1
The problem is PEDs is cheating. It is no longer even an issue that doping generally gives an athlete a huge performance enhancing advantage. It may sound trite but this is simply not fair. However not all athletes benefit from PEDs equally, because like all things with a person's physiology, how one's body utilises PEDs varies considerably, so there is never a level playing field. So while there is a lot of hypocrisy about PEDs use, it really boils down to your ethical point of view.
1
Yippie! Some good old steamy, stinky muck to rake. Nothing like some juicy slander to sell tabloids. Thanks a mi$$ion, Al Jazeera.
7
slander? I don't think so. We just need to subpoena half the NFL players and coaches. That's why Manning won't sue, being forced to tell the truth under oath in a public courtroom is more frightening and damaging to the NFL than any "expose" done by Al Jazeera.
4
The facts in this case are extremely weak. Charlie Sly has recanted, the so-called "investigator" in this case, LIam Collins, should be the subject of much more in-depth scrutiny and I am disappointed the New York Times did not even bother to look further at Collins. Collins is a fame chaser who is barred from running a company in the UK because he defrauded investors out of more than $5 million in a bogus investment scheme. Collins once appeared on 'Britains Got Talent' as a disco dancer. An athlete, Collins also tried out for the UK Olympic bobsled team. Collins posed as an aging athlete looking for a boost and that's how he and Al Jazeera found Sly. Sly worked at the clinic in 2013, Manning was treated there in 2011. So what is the source of his knowledge - speculative? 2nd hand anecdotes?
It may well be that Manning used HGH and it is all true. But one could not possibly discern that from the weak and unreliable sources that Al Jazeera used in their report. The Times could have done a better job of pointing out just how weak the evidence is rather than bringing in tangential subjects such as Balco, which prove absolutely nothing in this case.
Show shipping records to Manning's wife, find other corroborating witnesses, find anything that verifies this story, but please spare the innuendo and speculation. That's simple journalism and the Times should know better.
It may well be that Manning used HGH and it is all true. But one could not possibly discern that from the weak and unreliable sources that Al Jazeera used in their report. The Times could have done a better job of pointing out just how weak the evidence is rather than bringing in tangential subjects such as Balco, which prove absolutely nothing in this case.
Show shipping records to Manning's wife, find other corroborating witnesses, find anything that verifies this story, but please spare the innuendo and speculation. That's simple journalism and the Times should know better.
21
This article has some pretty strong suggestions - and no evidence to back them up. Do you guys still have reporters?
22
Stories like this one about doping expose the profound cognitive dissonance of American culture. People poor their hard earned dollars, precious time, and often invest a sense of self in support of our cultural icons, the NFL in this case. With all of the money poured into buying tickets, jerseys and memorabilia, cable TV subscriptions, plus voting for our tax dollars to subsidize stadiums, the "non-Profit NFL" is a staggeringly lucrative economy. If you look at the sports discussion boards, such as ESPN, you'll see that many people appear to be more loyal to their NFL team than they are their own families. NFL loyalists (ie. the fans) are more loyal to the brand than the NFL actually is to the fans and players. And yet this disconnect is not apparent to most, and we somehow manage to be surprised by the possibility that any given player might deem it a worthwhile risk to take banned substances to extend their playing career another season, or even just another game. When you earn hundreds of thousands of dollars per game (millions per game in Manning's case), why would it be shocking that you'd take a gamble on cheating to stick around just a little longer. Especially when you know that the physical and psychological toll you are likely to pay in retirement means you need to maximize your opportunity now.
3
I'm not implying I think Manning is guilty, but I am saying I'm not blind to the incentives to do what he is accused of doing. The story accusing him is based on circumstantial evidence, and hearsay, and today's news media also has a strong incentive to cheat and lie (it's all about being 'first', and creating click bait). In the end, I'm suspicious of both the accused and reporter. I guess what I am really saying is that we the consumers of entertainment and media are culpable for supporting the environment that incentivizes people to lie to us.
1
The NFL isn’t in the business of drug enforcement, marriage counseling or health preservation. The fastest, strongest, most brutal play is what drives their ratings and billion dollar revenues. Games are littered with injury stoppages, bodies are hauled off the field incessantly, and the beat, literally, goes on.
So don’t expect the NFL or their financial partners CBS, NBC, FOX and ESPN, to break or dwell on stories like this that might staunch the flow of blood money. Even their wholly owned and paid-for government subsidiaries will look the other way at illegal drug use, and only prosecute on the rare occasion of overwhelming evidence, and then just for show.
Our media could blow the doping scandal wide open in a heartbeat if they wanted to. But it’s against their financial interests. We have to rely on foreign sources like Al Jazeera (who will likely be scorned and reviled for their investigative work), to expose the dirt, greed and hypocrisy of our sports conglomerates.
So don’t expect the NFL or their financial partners CBS, NBC, FOX and ESPN, to break or dwell on stories like this that might staunch the flow of blood money. Even their wholly owned and paid-for government subsidiaries will look the other way at illegal drug use, and only prosecute on the rare occasion of overwhelming evidence, and then just for show.
Our media could blow the doping scandal wide open in a heartbeat if they wanted to. But it’s against their financial interests. We have to rely on foreign sources like Al Jazeera (who will likely be scorned and reviled for their investigative work), to expose the dirt, greed and hypocrisy of our sports conglomerates.
3
The Al Jazeera "expose" is a good documentary. What it lacks is the failure to assess the credibility of some of the actors such as Sly and Collins.
Our society is overrun with "ask your doctor" ads for drugs we cannot pronounce, let alone understand for what ailments they should be prescribed.
Big Pharma has pushed its way into all areas of life, from childbirth to "end-of-life" medications. Trying to extract one specific area of usage is an interesting exercise, but it's actually an exercise in tree removal. Our culture has been saturated with drugs and, given the public's expectation for superhuman athletic performances, I don't think it will be possible to eliminate "doping" from sports, especially the NFL. If that were true, we'd never see players return to the field for more punishment, after having visited the locker room's "trainers and physicians" for in-game "treatment".
Big Pharma has pushed its way into all areas of life, from childbirth to "end-of-life" medications. Trying to extract one specific area of usage is an interesting exercise, but it's actually an exercise in tree removal. Our culture has been saturated with drugs and, given the public's expectation for superhuman athletic performances, I don't think it will be possible to eliminate "doping" from sports, especially the NFL. If that were true, we'd never see players return to the field for more punishment, after having visited the locker room's "trainers and physicians" for in-game "treatment".
4
I have no doubt that most professional athletes dope at some point int their careers.
My question to the NYT's is would you have run such a prominent article if it didn't involve a marquee athlete? Personally, I doubt this article would have appeared on your sports page if the accused were only the working class offensive and defensive linesmen.
My question to the NYT's is would you have run such a prominent article if it didn't involve a marquee athlete? Personally, I doubt this article would have appeared on your sports page if the accused were only the working class offensive and defensive linesmen.
6
I used to think baseball was a dying sport, but now I think pro football is dying much more quickly. The drug use and criminal behavior of the players is reaching epidemic proportions. The brutality of the games is staggering and sickening. The timeouts due to challenges, rules interpretations and on-the-field injuries are becoming unbearably frequent. The fumbling and prevaricating from the NFL front office is maybe the worst thing of all. We are losing one of the great games and all anyone can think to do is make things worse.
7
Don't worry--Commissioner Goodell is on it! He will do whatever it takes to convict Tom Brady of being generally aware of a nefarious scheme to let 1/10 of a lb. of psi out of 11 footballs in a game of a year ago. That should fix everything.
2
Blood test every player every week. The technology exists, the cost is insignificant.
4
If you've ever had to have a blood test every week, you'd know it hurts like heck, is more annoying than a mother-in-law, and winds up giving you collapsed veins, spider veins, and aichmophobia.
2
That's nothing compared to what these drugs are doing to these guys.
I know it's somewhat unfair to infer but the vehemence of Manning's denials is eerily Lance Armstrong-like.
Because this isn't going away anytime soon and if this stuff is all fabrications he would have been well advised to offer to submit to lie detection testing.
Next:
""Any medical treatments that my wife received, that's her business," he said. "That has nothing to do with me. Nothing that's been sent to her or (that) my wife has used have I ever taken."
More smoking gun barrels, IMHO!!
Because this isn't going away anytime soon and if this stuff is all fabrications he would have been well advised to offer to submit to lie detection testing.
Next:
""Any medical treatments that my wife received, that's her business," he said. "That has nothing to do with me. Nothing that's been sent to her or (that) my wife has used have I ever taken."
More smoking gun barrels, IMHO!!
1
At the end of this article the author suggests that we should "open this box a little wider." What does this mean? Manning's reputation has been smeared by an unreliable source and a new agency willing to report it to the world without sufficient fact checking. Now should Manning's career be combed over in detail? Should he be subjected to further unwarranted abuse at the hands of the press? Unless there is incontrovertible evidence that he has done something why not let let him finish his fabled career in peace! Don't start digging holes based on trash.
30
"Incontrovertible evidence that he has done something wrong?" That's not how the NFL works. They smeared Tom Brady's name and suspended him for assuming (assuming! - ie. no facts) that he had "general awareness" that something was not kosher. Zero evidence. Just assumptions. Shouldn't these allegations warrant the same standards? Peyton doesn't deny that HGH was sent to his home address, allegedly in his wife's name. Shouldn't he be similarly punished for being "generally aware" that illegal drugs were sent to his house?
2
Manning may "do earnest well," but I can't say the same for this writer. This sort of comment is like the question: When did you stop beating your wife? It implies that Manning is a liar without actually saying that. Avoiding libel well?
Like the writer, I have no idea what Manning or any other football player did or did not take. It may or may not be a problem. But this is the New York Times; I think its opinion pieces should rise above water-cooler speculation.
Like the writer, I have no idea what Manning or any other football player did or did not take. It may or may not be a problem. But this is the New York Times; I think its opinion pieces should rise above water-cooler speculation.
16
Well, the important thing to remember is that he is guilty until he can prove otherwise.
12
This is crazy - just going on one person's word we are disparaging a reputed person's legacy. How does Mr.Sly know that Mrs and Mr.Manning are patients at the institute? this coincidence is enough to cause aspersions? A little bit of concrete proof is required.
10
"Would you blame any of these battered men — a majority of whom can have their contracts ripped up after the first torn ligament ..."
Obviously, this is another story, but why, in the world, hasn't the Players Union negotiated for guaranteed contracts? Think of the last game you watched -- how many young men did you see carted-off with a shredded knee, or a scrambled brain? And they can be discarded like third-day fish?
If "football is family," as those obnoxious ads claim, those contracts would be honored. In my family, we don't throw away a relative because he gets hurt.
Obviously, this is another story, but why, in the world, hasn't the Players Union negotiated for guaranteed contracts? Think of the last game you watched -- how many young men did you see carted-off with a shredded knee, or a scrambled brain? And they can be discarded like third-day fish?
If "football is family," as those obnoxious ads claim, those contracts would be honored. In my family, we don't throw away a relative because he gets hurt.
4
1) The NFL and it constituent teams are Corporations
2) Corporations have been declared to have the rights of human being by the apparently inhuman SCOTUS
3) Corporations have these rights but are soulless by definition
4)Psychopaths and sociopaths are essentially soulless
5) Psychopaths simply do not care about other human beings, including their families. They will lie, cheat, manipulate to gain trust and they will maim and kill to get whatever they want. They will convince others, by any means to do heinous things on their behalf
6)What corporations want is profit
7) References to family by a corporation are a manipulative way to get people to trust them and like them so they can get what they want, profit.
What will happen with injured "players" who are "family" to the corporation? See points 1 to 7 above. Despite what SCOTUS says they are not humans and should not have anything approaching human rights or privileges.
2) Corporations have been declared to have the rights of human being by the apparently inhuman SCOTUS
3) Corporations have these rights but are soulless by definition
4)Psychopaths and sociopaths are essentially soulless
5) Psychopaths simply do not care about other human beings, including their families. They will lie, cheat, manipulate to gain trust and they will maim and kill to get whatever they want. They will convince others, by any means to do heinous things on their behalf
6)What corporations want is profit
7) References to family by a corporation are a manipulative way to get people to trust them and like them so they can get what they want, profit.
What will happen with injured "players" who are "family" to the corporation? See points 1 to 7 above. Despite what SCOTUS says they are not humans and should not have anything approaching human rights or privileges.
2
News Flash! Guys in the NFL juice up! With all the murders, wife beaters, rapist and child abusers in the league suffering from roid rage, why single out one of the sport's class acts? At that, one who is struggling to recover from injury towards the end of a stellar career?
8
By concentrating on Manning, and not on all the people in the documentary that offered illegal treatments we miss the point about the availability, and perhaps the ubiquity, of the substances in professional sports. That is the point of the documentary; naming prominent players at least brought atttention to the issue. If someone who seems to be knowledgeable reports something (Sly), of course you report it. And then others can research even deeper to find the truth. Manning might be vindicated, and Sly, or Al Jazeera might then be held accountable by lawsuit - or we may see that athletes sometimes cheat. It's a process.
3
Sly recanted his entire story. Al Jazeera noted that damning fact in the documentary but broadcast the libel anyway. What kind of process is that?
7
If you think he's a liar, why do you choose to believe the recant -- you know, the statements he made only After he was exposed?
1
Peyton Manning has access to the very best medical doctors in the world. Yet, we are supposed to believe that he benignly chose medical treatment for a serious neck injury from an anti-aging clinic run by a family doctor who does not appear to have a state medical license.
9
What Manning said, if you listened to him, he ONLY went to the Guyler Clinic to use their hyperbaric chamber. Makes sense to me!
Football isn't family -- it's pharmaceuticals.
Regardless of the AJ specifics, I'm with your writer: let's open this box. I recall meeting Dan Dierdorf in Ann Arbor in the early 1970s. Huge man -- filled a doorway, a block of granite. He weighed 275, which is about 50 lbs. too light to play the line in today's NFL. The species hasn't evolved much since then, but the medicine chest has.
And we may expect the Money Machine to again lash out at anyone who questions its efficacy and integrity. They have the best PR troops that ample money can buy. I wonder, for example, how many naysaying comments and recs here are from shills of the league?
Regardless of the AJ specifics, I'm with your writer: let's open this box. I recall meeting Dan Dierdorf in Ann Arbor in the early 1970s. Huge man -- filled a doorway, a block of granite. He weighed 275, which is about 50 lbs. too light to play the line in today's NFL. The species hasn't evolved much since then, but the medicine chest has.
And we may expect the Money Machine to again lash out at anyone who questions its efficacy and integrity. They have the best PR troops that ample money can buy. I wonder, for example, how many naysaying comments and recs here are from shills of the league?
6
We should just have two leagues for every sport- the all-drugs league and the clean league.
Let the dopers dope to their hearts content. But give real athletes a league of their own. Real athletes shouldn't have to compete against dopers.
Then we can see the limits of the human body and spirit- naturally and on drugs.
The hits will be bigger and badder in the all-drugs league but the competition will be real in the non-drugs league.
Same with the Olympics. There seems to be more cheating 'athletes' than honest ones- in every sport. Let them do their thing- but let the spectators know what they are watching- humans with integrity who are competing on a level playing field or competition between walking pharmacies where 'skill' is based on money and access to state-of-the-art pharmaceuticals.
Let the dopers dope to their hearts content. But give real athletes a league of their own. Real athletes shouldn't have to compete against dopers.
Then we can see the limits of the human body and spirit- naturally and on drugs.
The hits will be bigger and badder in the all-drugs league but the competition will be real in the non-drugs league.
Same with the Olympics. There seems to be more cheating 'athletes' than honest ones- in every sport. Let them do their thing- but let the spectators know what they are watching- humans with integrity who are competing on a level playing field or competition between walking pharmacies where 'skill' is based on money and access to state-of-the-art pharmaceuticals.
2
There is no reason to doubt that nearly all NFL players use PEDs, and most football fans are totally OK with it. Contrast the fan reaction to baseball players associated with PEDs (Let's ban em for life!") vs the football fan's response (When does the suspension end so I can put him on my fantasy roster?). MLB insists it has the best testing program in professional sports, yet the Biogenesys scandal occurred not because of testing, but because someone released records to a newspaper. Only 2 or 3 of the dozen suspended players had positive tests, Arod has apparently taken hundreds of tests and never failed. As long as athletes are competing for a handful of incredibly lucrative jobs, the cost/benefit equation will favor PEDs.
1
I Don't know Manning or anything about his alleged use of HGH. But I have this reaction to this article.
How about until the NYTimes has an actual reporter uncover some hard evidence of the alleged transgressions ( as opposed to the pithy associations and innuendo offered by this columnist), it keep columns like this on its editorial page where opinion pieces belong. Opening the box wider is fine, but Powell pointing at a closed box and implying he knows what is inside is not reporting. If Powell considers this a news article, he would be better employed at one of the tabloids, as would his editor.
I expect better from the Times.
How about until the NYTimes has an actual reporter uncover some hard evidence of the alleged transgressions ( as opposed to the pithy associations and innuendo offered by this columnist), it keep columns like this on its editorial page where opinion pieces belong. Opening the box wider is fine, but Powell pointing at a closed box and implying he knows what is inside is not reporting. If Powell considers this a news article, he would be better employed at one of the tabloids, as would his editor.
I expect better from the Times.
62
Ahhh... This article appears in "Sports of The Times" which is described as "A collection of columns offering opinion and analysis from the world of sports." I think they got it right.
3
Bravo, Steve. There was a day, too long ago, when hard-working journalists 'opened the box.' Ask Richard Nixon. Now they complain when the suspected wrongdoers won't open the boxes for them. Nice work, if you can get it.
1
I take it you haven't seen a newsroom budget lately...
The lack of any substantive evidence here is galling. Very unresponsible of the Times to run this speculative nonsense, the effect of which is to implicate Manning in the court of public opinion regardless of whether there is any truth to it or not.
24
People are fools if they do not think that many football players use steroids. Humans in general certainly didn't evolve in this manner. It is obvious with any number of athletes and entertainers, some of whom died prematurely, but predominantly in the NFL. Blood tests are the only way to know for sure, but, you can use your eyes and generally be right. I see people in the gym my age (56) and much older who look super human, like comic book characters. Is it possible naturally? I don't know, but I doubt it. The people I met or knew dedicated to natural body building were immensely strong and ripped but they weren't bulky at all. Obviously, younger men will have more testosterone, but you can often tell when they are using too. If someone is 18 and their bicep is as big as their head, that's a pretty good clue. I remember some especially muscular guys when I was growing up but no one looked like many people do now. It's not better training and eating. There are fewer women who use, but you can tell with them too.
As for Manning, I can't know for sure, but I believe him because he doesn't look like people I associate with steroids. He looks very thin, even whippet like. And unless you have a reason to doubt a great athlete (as we do with people suddenly knocking the ball out of the stadium or turning in unbelievable performance or having unreal bodies), they should be given the benefit of doubt. People are often jealous or motivated by fame or money to make up things.
As for Manning, I can't know for sure, but I believe him because he doesn't look like people I associate with steroids. He looks very thin, even whippet like. And unless you have a reason to doubt a great athlete (as we do with people suddenly knocking the ball out of the stadium or turning in unbelievable performance or having unreal bodies), they should be given the benefit of doubt. People are often jealous or motivated by fame or money to make up things.
12
I would like to believe the denial because I like Manning, but when it comes to athletes these stories are usually true. I have believed an athlete too many times and been proved wrong.
As to his physique my theory is he used them, not as we normally think of for performance enhancement not to get huge muscles, but to speed recovery from serious injury of an acute and chronic/long term nature which is simply not otherwise possible at his age and under the ongoing intensity of professional sports. Besides, he is alleged to have used HGH which is not a steroid, but stimulates tissue growth/regeneration.
As to his physique my theory is he used them, not as we normally think of for performance enhancement not to get huge muscles, but to speed recovery from serious injury of an acute and chronic/long term nature which is simply not otherwise possible at his age and under the ongoing intensity of professional sports. Besides, he is alleged to have used HGH which is not a steroid, but stimulates tissue growth/regeneration.
3
Of course, the sources for these stories are always shady characters. What dealer of illegal substances is going to come across as an upstanding, trustworthy citizen? It's a nice, built in cover for any customer, to be able to smear anyone making allegations.
Do I remember correctly that Roger Clemens' wife also took shipments of HGH? Strange coincidence.
Do I remember correctly that Roger Clemens' wife also took shipments of HGH? Strange coincidence.
3
Regardless of the particulars of Peyton Manning, just compare videos of NFL players of a generation ago to today's players. Natural evolution does not progress with such speed...
15
The legitimacy of an expose like this is inversely proportional to its salaciousness. Also, this article - and much journalism - appears to oversimplify the connection between PEDs and improved performance, recovery, etc. For every player who has good results, I assume there are many who don't benefit, or worse.
2
Investigating the issue of doping in sports is an ethical and moral imperative. As a football coach at the high school, Community College, and European Club level for 45 years, I think it is an ongoing mission required to keep sports relevant in our modern lives. To this end, participation in sports must enhance our health and promote the thrill of honest competition.
However, lets keep this necessary debate honest itself! To start off, everyone reading this can verify, via smart phone, bed-rock "facts" that form the basis of our arguing. For example: Check out the assumption that ex-pro football players are more susceptible to cardiovascular ailments than the rest off us? Not true! And, I might add, if research were done to compare their overall health to the health of the millions of couch potatoes who sit around watching game after game on Sundays, then Monday night ( and now Thursday nights ), instead of getting out of the house to play active sports, they, sadly, remain better off!
However, lets keep this necessary debate honest itself! To start off, everyone reading this can verify, via smart phone, bed-rock "facts" that form the basis of our arguing. For example: Check out the assumption that ex-pro football players are more susceptible to cardiovascular ailments than the rest off us? Not true! And, I might add, if research were done to compare their overall health to the health of the millions of couch potatoes who sit around watching game after game on Sundays, then Monday night ( and now Thursday nights ), instead of getting out of the house to play active sports, they, sadly, remain better off!
1
Al Jazeera's piece should have first been vetted by its editors. A single source believing he's not on the record is just irresponsible journalism. That's the piece the NYT should have written in response.
16
What did I just read? This mash of speculation doesn't qualify as news, and it isn't even opinion. If there are no facts, that's okay to say, but you can say that in a paragraph or two. You can even add your opinion, but do it in a way that is clear and open.
13
Who among us would not have done what Manning is alleged to have done?
You tell me this will promote healing a serious neck injury and my only question will be: "Are there serious side effects?" And if the answer is "We've never seen any" my next questions is "How soon can you shoot me up?"
Clearly his intention was to get back on the field, risking even more injury. Equal parts brave and foolish. I wonder how he even got medical clearance to return, truthfully.
If HGH can restore so much health to a body part that has suffered a serious injury that you can return to as violent a pastime as NFL football....
Again. Who among us would say no to that?
You tell me this will promote healing a serious neck injury and my only question will be: "Are there serious side effects?" And if the answer is "We've never seen any" my next questions is "How soon can you shoot me up?"
Clearly his intention was to get back on the field, risking even more injury. Equal parts brave and foolish. I wonder how he even got medical clearance to return, truthfully.
If HGH can restore so much health to a body part that has suffered a serious injury that you can return to as violent a pastime as NFL football....
Again. Who among us would say no to that?
6
There is no evidence yet that Peyton Manning took anything and this supposed analysis, which is really gossip and innuendo masquerading as analysis, shouldn’t be finding him guilty so soon. Unfortunately, this stuff is no longer beneath the Times it is the Times. Some of the supposition here is comically dumb. For example, Mr. Powell finds it suspicious that an intern at the clinic would know that the Mannings were there in 2011 when it seems natural that people at the clinic might tell an intern about the famous people who’d visited the place, but he doesn’t find it suspicious that an intern would know what treatment they received and what drugs they were prescribed, things that would be considered confidential by employees of the clinic.
Comparing an intern to the men who ran biogenesis is absurd.
Finally, Powell does not see a difference between taking HGH after a serious injury to promote healing and taking steroids while playing? If Manning is guilty, shouldn’t it matter that Manning wasn’t taking performance-enhancing drugs because he simply wasn’t performing; he was taking healing promoting drugs while out for the season. This hardly makes him Barry Bonds or Alex Rodriquez.
Articles like this encourage social media mobs to speculate even more and condemn people before they are found guilty of anything. Before accusing people of moral lapses, the Times should ask itself if dumbing down the Times to make more money is morally compromising.
Comparing an intern to the men who ran biogenesis is absurd.
Finally, Powell does not see a difference between taking HGH after a serious injury to promote healing and taking steroids while playing? If Manning is guilty, shouldn’t it matter that Manning wasn’t taking performance-enhancing drugs because he simply wasn’t performing; he was taking healing promoting drugs while out for the season. This hardly makes him Barry Bonds or Alex Rodriquez.
Articles like this encourage social media mobs to speculate even more and condemn people before they are found guilty of anything. Before accusing people of moral lapses, the Times should ask itself if dumbing down the Times to make more money is morally compromising.
37
HGH is a drug that seems available if the patient meets "required conditions".
e.g Lionel Messi, currently considered the best soccer player in the world, showed his great skills as a young boy growing up in Argentina but he was very small. As a young teenager his parents took him to Europe where his current club side (Barcelona) helped him get treated with HGH from reputable doctors and clinics. Aided by this treatment he grew tall enough to be great at the highest levels. He is still not very big or tall - maybe 5'7" & 140 lbs.
None of this is a secret or, from what i have read, controversial.
What are the 'required conditions" for HGH to be used?
e.g Lionel Messi, currently considered the best soccer player in the world, showed his great skills as a young boy growing up in Argentina but he was very small. As a young teenager his parents took him to Europe where his current club side (Barcelona) helped him get treated with HGH from reputable doctors and clinics. Aided by this treatment he grew tall enough to be great at the highest levels. He is still not very big or tall - maybe 5'7" & 140 lbs.
None of this is a secret or, from what i have read, controversial.
What are the 'required conditions" for HGH to be used?
8
"One man invents, the next circumvents," players have been using "enhancing" substances since the beginning of time ... we just didn't know ... amphetamines predated steroids and nobody cared ... a simple solution is to simply ignore the chemicals ... allow players to use whatever they choose ... after all we view players in a Roman forum "Christians versus the Lions" ... players are discarded as soon as they're damaged .. we love the violence ... why impose these foolish norms, we love the athleticism and the violence, and, yes, the same deeply flawed athletes are role models for our children.
2
There sure are a lot of people leaping up to stridently defend Mr. Manning against this accusation, acting as though they know him, or football is not flooded with performance enhancing drugs, or there haven't been major doping cheating scandals in professional American sports for decades. I guess they've got their reason: they don't want to believe it.
Hey I didn't want to believe it with Lance Armstrong either. I furiously defended him for awhile, right up until the evidence was just too overwhelming. Just as his comeback was too miraculous to be believed, so is Peyton Manning's. So was Barry Bonds' sudden growth spurt in his 30's.
So I know it'll take time for these deniers to reach the acceptance stage of grief (there ought to be bargaining somewhere first, like paying me money not to talk about it). It's rough when your heroes turn out to be cheaters, or badly flawed, I had a tough time coming to terms with Cosby's transgressions too.
Maybe this points out how sports figures shouldn't be heroes. All they do is perform a certain set of physical tasks very well, it's not like any sport is inherently important. These scandals wouldn't hurt y'all so much if you didn't take these silly sports seriously.
Hey I didn't want to believe it with Lance Armstrong either. I furiously defended him for awhile, right up until the evidence was just too overwhelming. Just as his comeback was too miraculous to be believed, so is Peyton Manning's. So was Barry Bonds' sudden growth spurt in his 30's.
So I know it'll take time for these deniers to reach the acceptance stage of grief (there ought to be bargaining somewhere first, like paying me money not to talk about it). It's rough when your heroes turn out to be cheaters, or badly flawed, I had a tough time coming to terms with Cosby's transgressions too.
Maybe this points out how sports figures shouldn't be heroes. All they do is perform a certain set of physical tasks very well, it's not like any sport is inherently important. These scandals wouldn't hurt y'all so much if you didn't take these silly sports seriously.
8
So Dan Stackhouse, where is your proof, your provable in court smoking gun, that Peyton Manning did juice up? You must listen to AM radio... a lot.. Other than Sly's accusations which he walked back, you have nothing at this point except "everybody knows" and "it's just common sense."
At this point, you have Barry Bonds, who visibly physically exploded, and you have Lance the juicer, and certainly others... but you really don't have anything other than your own conspiracy theory about Manning.
At this point, you have Barry Bonds, who visibly physically exploded, and you have Lance the juicer, and certainly others... but you really don't have anything other than your own conspiracy theory about Manning.
5
Dear Libin'intheMidwest,
I'm going by common sense, not direct proof. When I was stridently defending Lance Armstrong, there was no solid proof of his cheating. When I was furiously arguing Cosby wasn't a molester of women, there was no solid proof there either.
What I'm going by is not that Mr. Manning is large and muscular, it's that he had severe neck and spinal injury and bounced right back to play again. That doesn't happen naturally. As people age they lose the ability to play this kind of grindingly brutal game, and yet he's gotten better since before his spinal injuries. So I'm just going by what seems pretty obvious, but I'm certain that there's no clear proof yet. And I'm fairly sure there will be.
I'm going by common sense, not direct proof. When I was stridently defending Lance Armstrong, there was no solid proof of his cheating. When I was furiously arguing Cosby wasn't a molester of women, there was no solid proof there either.
What I'm going by is not that Mr. Manning is large and muscular, it's that he had severe neck and spinal injury and bounced right back to play again. That doesn't happen naturally. As people age they lose the ability to play this kind of grindingly brutal game, and yet he's gotten better since before his spinal injuries. So I'm just going by what seems pretty obvious, but I'm certain that there's no clear proof yet. And I'm fairly sure there will be.
Dan, are you and Peyton good buds, just hangin' and cruisin' in the off season? Did you give him some of your personal stash of HGH when he was running short? Hey, you must know Eli pretty good, too. How much dope is he using? I'll bet Archie supplies both of his boys. Everybody's doin' it. Always have.
This NYT piece in itself is very shaky (and lazy) journalism.
The writer talked to no one at Al Jazeera including Liam Collins who, it appears, provided no documentation and videotaped interviews without telling the subjects they were being recorded.
The NYT's Michael Powell quotes several "authorities" but I am guessing he just grabbed published comments and didn't actually interview them. He appears to have grabbed quotes from Peyton Manning and Clay Methews off of television interviews.
And he mixes in all sorts of unrelated material about track and baseball.
My take: If Manning used HGH in his surgery recovery (which he denies) is there any evidence he used any PED while he was playing? No? Case closed.
The writer talked to no one at Al Jazeera including Liam Collins who, it appears, provided no documentation and videotaped interviews without telling the subjects they were being recorded.
The NYT's Michael Powell quotes several "authorities" but I am guessing he just grabbed published comments and didn't actually interview them. He appears to have grabbed quotes from Peyton Manning and Clay Methews off of television interviews.
And he mixes in all sorts of unrelated material about track and baseball.
My take: If Manning used HGH in his surgery recovery (which he denies) is there any evidence he used any PED while he was playing? No? Case closed.
9
Easy. Send in the FBI and put everyone under oath. You will be surprised at the things people say once they are under oath. Get caught in a lie to the FBI and you get into bigger trouble. I am sure all the actors involved in this story can expect visits from the FBI. Their nightmare is just starting.
2
That's how the Armstrong house of cards fell.
Some people will say whatever suits them under oath. What you really need is skillful cross examination!
Remember how slimy everyone thought it was when Roger Clemens implied that his HGH was actually his wife Debbie's? He was pretty adamant too.
6
And Mark McGwire is the hitting coach for the Los Angeles Dodgers!
As long as there is money to be made, those who own/run professional (and college) sports will at most turn a blind eye to doping, and at worst will subtly encourage it. The logo for the NFL and MLB should be a caricature combining the wink of an eye and a slap on the wrist, both superimposed on a dollar sign and surrounded by a background of pills and syringes.
As long as there is money to be made, those who own/run professional (and college) sports will at most turn a blind eye to doping, and at worst will subtly encourage it. The logo for the NFL and MLB should be a caricature combining the wink of an eye and a slap on the wrist, both superimposed on a dollar sign and surrounded by a background of pills and syringes.
4
Mmmm, nothing would suprise me. I would hope that Manning's denials are affirmed, but many times a mea culpa follows... Oh well, are we all not entertained? Are they all not paid?
1
Striking and shameful how the NYT and Michael Powell throw Manning (Peyton, of course) under the bus without a shred of evidence. And then, after finally getting to his denial, pooh-pooh it. I haven't seen the al-Jazeera piece yet, but if its as shoddy as some of the other commenters allege, its in the same company as this article.
6
What about the timing of Peyton Manning's alleged use of HGH? I read in another news report (on BBC.com) that his alleged use may have been before the NFL banned the use of HGH. If that's the case, the allegation, whether it is true or not, is irrelevant.
2
Does anyone really buy that any sport ISN'T tainted?
In an era when the difference between making millions in endorsements and the poor house revolves around being the fastest/strongest/toughest, of Course doping will prevail.
May as well take our collective heads out of the sand, acknowledge that you can't beat the doping system, and just make it all open and above-board.
"Peyton Manning, presented by # Pharmaceuticals", or whatever.
In an era when the difference between making millions in endorsements and the poor house revolves around being the fastest/strongest/toughest, of Course doping will prevail.
May as well take our collective heads out of the sand, acknowledge that you can't beat the doping system, and just make it all open and above-board.
"Peyton Manning, presented by # Pharmaceuticals", or whatever.
4
Did Charles Sly ever live in Boston? Maybe the media should investigate that. Why should I not suggest that he did? After all, the tone of this article is the very same as my suggestion, which is innuendo, prejudice, opinion. So, yeah... did Charles Sly ever live in Boston, maybe work for the Patriots, as I expand my own conspiracy theory. Why should I not suggest that? Maybe Sly used to inflate footballs for the Patriots? Why not suggest that? It's as valid a theory as any of the bilge suggested in this story.
6
$$$$= drugs...... the more you
pay the players, the more they do to get at the pot of gold. this includes managers, agents and the stupid fans who worship these players. Sports is a $$$$ game and any idea that it is all above board is a joke. So let the players use the drugs, lets all cheat, everyone else does form congress to the garbage man who takes bribes to remove prohibited garbage. Our culture is based on bribes, handouts and win at all costs mentality... Good for the payers.. , keep buying their memorabilia, shirts, and everything with their name on it. ....good for the economy and the tax man
pay the players, the more they do to get at the pot of gold. this includes managers, agents and the stupid fans who worship these players. Sports is a $$$$ game and any idea that it is all above board is a joke. So let the players use the drugs, lets all cheat, everyone else does form congress to the garbage man who takes bribes to remove prohibited garbage. Our culture is based on bribes, handouts and win at all costs mentality... Good for the payers.. , keep buying their memorabilia, shirts, and everything with their name on it. ....good for the economy and the tax man
1
So......we have a star NFL quarterback accused of breaking the rules, but no actual evidence that he did so.....huh, I thought those people were labeled "cheaters". Oh no, wait, that's only of they play for the Patriots.
1
What has happened to the Old Gray Lady? How is it possible that this tabloid-style story was allowed to be published when at the end the writer acknowledges that the source admitted he lied?
7
Without the fans there would be NO football. We are watching young adult men destroy themselves with the delusion that they will gain riches, fame, power, and women. The truth is that they will destroy their bodies and their lives. We need to stop watching and supporting this horrid enterprise and begin something new and better.
9
About Manning, I'll assume innocence until proven otherwise, but the article does raise an interesting question that may--or may not--be related to doping. Back in the early 1960s, Big Daddy Lipscomb was famous for his size. The biggest guy in the NFL. He played for the old Baltimore Colts. All 295 pounds of him. Today, he would be an average size lineman at best. So what goes? Weight training alone? Diet? I'd like to know more about this phenomenon.
6
"Those that respect the law and love sausage should watch neither being made."
Mark Twain.
I think we can add pro sports to that list. Seeing behind the curtain of professional sports is not for weak stomachs.
Mark Twain.
I think we can add pro sports to that list. Seeing behind the curtain of professional sports is not for weak stomachs.
4
Also it hits me, from where all this is heading, soon enough we should be entertained by cyborg football players smashing into eachother at twice human speed, occasionally having augments go flying from the force of the collision. But I bet it still won't be brutal enough, and eventually gene-engineered players are going to supplant the obsolete cyborgs.
2
The Chinese have been working on breeding "gene-enhanced" athletes for at least 20 years. Let's see how they do at the next summer's Olympics.
1
So reminiscent of Mark McGwire, Barry Bonds, Alex Rodriguez, Ben Johnson, Marion Jones, Lance Armstrong et al. As far back as Lyle Alzado, if not farther. How is it possible to react to phrases such as "integrity of the game" or "integrity of the sport" without derisive laughter?
First, of course, comes denial upon denial upon denial upon denial upon denial ... for what seems like an eternity ... until -- with the athletes, their agents and their lawyers kicking and screaming all the way -- the truth finally emerges beyond a reasonable doubt. Then a lot of legal double talk hoping we'll believe that it really wasn't so bad, after all.
Such wonderful role models for the youngsters.
First, of course, comes denial upon denial upon denial upon denial upon denial ... for what seems like an eternity ... until -- with the athletes, their agents and their lawyers kicking and screaming all the way -- the truth finally emerges beyond a reasonable doubt. Then a lot of legal double talk hoping we'll believe that it really wasn't so bad, after all.
Such wonderful role models for the youngsters.
24
How about some documented proof? I am not convinced either way yet.
1
This is the kind of reporting that makes many people suspicious of MSM. Here we have this guy, Mr. Sly (nice name, eh?), who makes allegations without tangible evidence. And, he makes the allegations against one of the major "good guys " in the NFL...not some second string OT. What better way to pump up your own career in journalism?
Then , there's this current piece in the NYT, replete with little innuendos. They're not outright accusations, which might open Mr. Powell to a lawsuit. They're just Sly little comments and questions that plant further the seeds of doubt.
I expect better of the NYT.
Then , there's this current piece in the NYT, replete with little innuendos. They're not outright accusations, which might open Mr. Powell to a lawsuit. They're just Sly little comments and questions that plant further the seeds of doubt.
I expect better of the NYT.
15
Patrick, is the article more or less fair that you who, in only your second sentence, personally denigrate Mr. Sly based on his family name?
1
Oh, please! You must be kidding.
3
Shouldn't the second paragraph of this story have stated that the so-called source has now totally recanted his accusation as braggadocio?
To place that pertinent info near the end of the story lets Al Jazeera off the hook for its sketchy journalism standards.
To place that pertinent info near the end of the story lets Al Jazeera off the hook for its sketchy journalism standards.
5
Peyton Manning is about as believable as that other pathological liar and fellow juicer, Lance Armstrong. The parallels are astonishing.
Doping is that "other" taboo subject the NFL has resisted addressing for far too long. Like concussions, it's the "let's look the other way and maybe it'll go away" game plan. Or, if they simply put up road blocks and delay the inevitable, as they very skillfully have over the years, they get to rack up a few more billion in profits before the you-know-what finally hit's the fan.
Despicable.
Doping is that "other" taboo subject the NFL has resisted addressing for far too long. Like concussions, it's the "let's look the other way and maybe it'll go away" game plan. Or, if they simply put up road blocks and delay the inevitable, as they very skillfully have over the years, they get to rack up a few more billion in profits before the you-know-what finally hit's the fan.
Despicable.
10
I don't think you are correct. It is the player's union that has been resistant to proper drug testing procedures and punishment for that. Since the last contract was signed, they have been trying to win in court the things they did not get at the bargaining table, such as not having the commissioner as arbitrator on appeal.
1
The mere accusation of these activities will tarnish an athlete's reputation. If I were the NYT, I would be extremely wary of acknowledging this article until more facts come to light. No one here knows anything.
6
That never stopped them in the Brady "scandal".
Thousands of text messages received by the two so-called "deflators" and not one from Brady asking them to deflate balls.
No other evidence not dismissed by science and yet now you want to wait for all the evidence? Why not give Manning the same Brady treatment, guilty until proven innocent?
Thousands of text messages received by the two so-called "deflators" and not one from Brady asking them to deflate balls.
No other evidence not dismissed by science and yet now you want to wait for all the evidence? Why not give Manning the same Brady treatment, guilty until proven innocent?
4
Let let us also take a hard look ar basketball. Many said players have bodybuilder muscles which are impossible in such an aerobic sport. As the article said, find a sport and you will find drugs.
1
do we remember how vehemently and relentlessly Lance Armstrong denied doping?
45
And how virulent his defenders, as evidenced by comments on this website, all about how terrible it was that the times could even print such an accusation from a person who could not be believed.
Deja vu all over again.
Deja vu all over again.
1
"do we remember how vehemently and relentlessly Lance Armstrong denied doping?"
... and how LONG.
... and how LONG.
1
So - in the bizzaro world - if you vehemently deny something you did not do - you are guilty - nice - life is so easy these days.
It's been well known for decades, in the football world(high school to the professional level) that most of the players dope(juice), by doping i mean steroidal use, and more recently HGH. All so that a player gets an edge on the other guy. Coaches have encouraged their use, starting in high school, then on to the collegiate level then carrying on to the professional level. How do you think an offensive linesman gets to be 280 lbs or more on a 6 foot 4 inch frame? If you ask me, Peyton Manning did use HGH at the very least. He denies it saying it was all done by hard work, true, but with a little booster along with it. You can't be a successful QB or linebacker without doing the hard work, but it doesn't mean you didn't/don't give yourself a cheating edge. Please guys, who are you kidding? Maybe your dopey fan base, they'll believe anything, just so their favorite sport doesn't receive any negative press, much like those baseball players who cheated and fans who'll swear allegiance to them and the game no matter what they did to cheat.
2
I just finished watching this excellent expose. My assessment is that Manning, Zimmerman, Matthews and the other professional athletes mentioned are guilty of doping.
4
George Zimmerman was a dope, but this is the first I've heard of him being accused of doping.
Please don't ever volunteer for jury duty!
Meh! I seem to recall there was a lot of coverage of his regimen in '11…his training regimen. He seems like a pretty driven guy, which could mean he dedicated himself to getting back into shape the right way or that he was so focused on returning that he cut corners.
I'm not going to worry about it.
He wants to go out on top. They all do.
And everybody lies. All the time.
I'm not going to worry about it.
He wants to go out on top. They all do.
And everybody lies. All the time.
3
Really GREAT journalism, lets believe the allegations even when the source of the allegations recanted his story and the head of the clinic said that the pharmacist in question wasn't even at the clinic when Manning was there. But hey, pro-athletes use illegal performance enhancers, Manning is a professional athlete and therefore, lets just accept the allegation on face value. This is reporting?
24
Interesting how quickly people are willing to believe this kind of stuff about a player who has never had a blemish on his record including his years of playing in college and in the pros as one of the all time greats. Can anyone really believe that the Mannings would be so stupid as to allow HGH to be mailed to their home under the wife's name in order to avoid detection???? Wouldn't it be more feasible to believe they'd use a numbered PO box or the address of an acquaintance or relative? Frankly this "documentary" offered no "proof" of anything -- instead we have a video of a guy pretending to be seeking HGH and another guy boasting about the players to whom he supplied the drug -- like any salesman trying to impress the potential new client with a listing of his other clients. If Sly was really in the business of selling HGH to superstars in football and baseball it would mark him as being incredibly dumb to toss those names out to a guy he didn't know.
The worst part of this is that the rest of the media including the NYT is willing to give this "documentary" and its accusations credence based on little more than nothing thereby bringing into question the reputation of two men --- and possibly more -- like Peyton Manning and Ryan Howard both of whom have been upstanding players and men throughout their careers.
The worst part of this is that the rest of the media including the NYT is willing to give this "documentary" and its accusations credence based on little more than nothing thereby bringing into question the reputation of two men --- and possibly more -- like Peyton Manning and Ryan Howard both of whom have been upstanding players and men throughout their careers.
25
Did you put the "evidence" in the Brady case through such scrutiny?
Probably not, there's more evidence that Manning did it however.
Probably not, there's more evidence that Manning did it however.
2
Matt, the evidence against Manning is weak, incredibly weak.
That being said, the case against Brady was much weaker.
That being said, the case against Brady was much weaker.
1
The Brady case was incredibly stupid -- it was about footballs with a minor variation in psi. A situation in which the balls were inflated to the correct psi at halftime and Brady's team scored over 20 more points against a team that wasn't very good then or now. In this instance Manning and others are being accused of taking a drug that is banned in their sport. This is a much more serious accusation based on the flimsiest of information from Sly and Collins neither of whom appear to be upstanding human beings who appear to have zero problem with impugning the reputations of other men for their own greedy purpose.
"Does earnest well" is a thumb on the scale. "Earnest" would be the straight reporting. If Manning did dope the evidence is not in this dung heap.
20
Of course Peyton Manning dopes. The NFL is still stuck in the MLB Bonds/Sosa/McGwire mentality of several years ago. Just pretend that doping is not widespread by punishing a very few less important stars while protecting the big names in the sport.
The fans are stupid enough to look the other way.
The fans are stupid enough to look the other way.
4
If this is such common knowledge, where has the mass media been in exposing the story? At least it looks like Aljazeera has not been sleeping on the job,
4
They've been paid to keep silent, of course, like they were on concussions for decades.
1
I'm disappointed that the Times leads with a repetition and even implicit confirmation of the claims, rather than with the fact that the main informant has recanted, and that Mr. Sly was not an employee of Guyer when he said he was. Also, I'd like to know whether it is against NFL rules to take HGH when you are not playing.
15
Recanting means he lied once. It's just a question of deciding whether it was then or now. I'd need to be convinced that he had a good reason to lie then, I think.
1
It didn't stop them in the Brady case!
No evidence yet Brady was somehow guilty and didn't deserve to play in the Super Bowl and all the other cries for 'justice' for something that never happened.
No evidence yet Brady was somehow guilty and didn't deserve to play in the Super Bowl and all the other cries for 'justice' for something that never happened.
2
It wasn't against any NFL rules in 2011, playing or not. They didn't even test for it.
1
The person who made the allegation to an Al Jazeera reporter has just recanted, saying that he made it all up.
4
Wonder what that cost....
2
So, you don't believe the accusations, but you believe the 'recanting?' Seems you have a very selective belief system.
3
Shame on the NYT for putting Manning's name in the headline and burying in the article that Sly "...claimed everything he said in the undercover films was a boast and a lie."
I oppose doping as strongly as anyone but it looks like the NYT has stooped to the level of the National Enquirer with this story.
The ends do not justify the means!
I oppose doping as strongly as anyone but it looks like the NYT has stooped to the level of the National Enquirer with this story.
The ends do not justify the means!
13
Steroids have come a long way since Lyle Alzado and company. And that road will keep on going powered by never-ending and constantly growing NBA, NFL, , NHL, and MLB TV contracts.
1
What this article leaves out (among other things) is that the man who accused Manning, Clay Matthews, Julius Peppers and others said all of this happened in 2011. Trouble is this man was not even working at the place he claims Manning went to for this "treatment." He didn't start working there till a few years later. The reporter who wrote this story should do a little more research and stop sounding so self-righteous.
3
As a Floridian, I used to think it a shame that Tim Tebow didn't make the grade in the NFL. Now I think he's the luckiest man alive. He has the fans, still gets the girls, and got the ESPN contract, without haviing first endured the crucible of years of pain, cycles of injury/recovery and concussions,
2
"I'm shocked, shocked, to find out that gambling is going on in here."
1
Investigate first before finding him guilty of anything
3
So take a polygraph examination. Simple test:
Have you ever taken HGH by any means or method?
Have you ever taken HGH by any means or method?
Dear John Smith,
Actually it's not so simple. Despite the hype over polygraphs, they do not detect truth or falsehoods. They detect subliminal emotional response, so someone who has rehearsed their lie well will not register, but someone who is telling the truth but is very anxious about it will show up as lying. False positives and false negatives are too common for polygraphs to be solid proof of anything, and this is why they're nearly never used in court proceedings.
Actually it's not so simple. Despite the hype over polygraphs, they do not detect truth or falsehoods. They detect subliminal emotional response, so someone who has rehearsed their lie well will not register, but someone who is telling the truth but is very anxious about it will show up as lying. False positives and false negatives are too common for polygraphs to be solid proof of anything, and this is why they're nearly never used in court proceedings.
1
The gist of this article seems to be "guilty until proven innocent".
5
We have reached the point, both in professional and amateur athletics, where the differences between the elite are so miniscule that those athletes in this category, look for that slight edge ---which always comes down to some form of pharmaceutical boost.
The shock is so many media outlets giving coverage to a widely discredited story with a very questionable source at its center.
4
Initial reports had PSI levels on the Patriots footballs as 2 to 2.5 PSI lower than allowed but so many journalists, including Mr. Powell and Mr. Belson ran with the story and stuck with it even after all the "facts" came out.
1
This is a very unfair column. The source of the allegation has clearly been discredited and Sly has withdrawn his allegations. "On Sunday, Sly, ... claimed everything he said in the undercover films was a boast and a lie." Yet in spite of this Powell choses to let the allegation linger, using Peyton's age, his alleged atrophy, and hand strength loss as the groundwork for motive.
What Powell does not have is evidence. Nor has he given due deference to Peyton's character. All he has is cynical speculation and the lies of an acknowledged liar. After Lance Armstrong it is easy to understand the scepticism of the media but Powell has done considerable disservice to his reputation by being disingenuous about Manning based on nada.
What Powell does not have is evidence. Nor has he given due deference to Peyton's character. All he has is cynical speculation and the lies of an acknowledged liar. After Lance Armstrong it is easy to understand the scepticism of the media but Powell has done considerable disservice to his reputation by being disingenuous about Manning based on nada.
5
The fans need to watch this documentary and maybe sports can be ever so slightly demoted from the holy cultural altar that it noe enjoys and we can bring some perspective back.
Very disappointing to see the Times repeat unsubstantiated attacks on an individual while citing sources it likens to "a garbage truck backing up" or closing with "Caveats should be piled in heaps". What, if any, standards of journalism were applied to this story, or, are cynical innuendos sufficient when all that can be referenced and quoted is self-labeled trash?
4
It didn't stop them in Brady "scandal" where there was no evidence, but were you so outraged then as you are now?
Probably not!
Probably not!
1
With all the money being paid to professional athletes today, and the better you are the more money you make, the temptation/pressure to take illegal performance enhancing drugs (PEDs) is probably irresistible to many athletes.
Professional athletes all have to understand that their time in the spotlight and their opportunity to earn really big money is limited. As the old joke goes, the NFL also means Not For Long and therefore another temptation to perhaps turn to PEDs to increase their payday before they are forced out of the game and the really big money stops.
There is also keeping up with the Joneses. If the perception is that many other players are using PEDs then maybe you better take them too or risk being replaced by the bigger and faster PED users. I wouldn't be at all surprised if this is how Lance Armstrong rationalized his PED use.
Finally, although I don't know Peyton Manning personally I do buy into his aw shucks low key demeanor that he shows the public and therefore I guess I would be surprised if these allegations were true. But then the 62 year old cynic in me remembers that I initially believed Lance Armstrong's denials that he doped because he seemed like the quintessential American Sports hero and was a cancer survivor (like me) to boot.
It will be very interesting to see where this story ends up and what the truth turns out to be.
Professional athletes all have to understand that their time in the spotlight and their opportunity to earn really big money is limited. As the old joke goes, the NFL also means Not For Long and therefore another temptation to perhaps turn to PEDs to increase their payday before they are forced out of the game and the really big money stops.
There is also keeping up with the Joneses. If the perception is that many other players are using PEDs then maybe you better take them too or risk being replaced by the bigger and faster PED users. I wouldn't be at all surprised if this is how Lance Armstrong rationalized his PED use.
Finally, although I don't know Peyton Manning personally I do buy into his aw shucks low key demeanor that he shows the public and therefore I guess I would be surprised if these allegations were true. But then the 62 year old cynic in me remembers that I initially believed Lance Armstrong's denials that he doped because he seemed like the quintessential American Sports hero and was a cancer survivor (like me) to boot.
It will be very interesting to see where this story ends up and what the truth turns out to be.
The shock is that anyone would believe otherwise. We feed antibiotics and steroids to our livestock to get a bigger breast or marbled steak, isn't that all sports has become: something for our enjoyment and make corporations richer. It is like opiate for the masses. Keep us sedated, fat, dumb and happy. Lets bring hot wings, burgers, pigs in a blanket to a friends house and watch a game; but not really visit.
1
As with Roger Clemens, the role of the wife of the heterosexual male pro-athlete seems under-reported. I hope the talented Michael Powell and his colleagues will take up the story of Ashley Manning's role in this scandal. The timing, at the very least, is important. 2011 is when Ashley Manning produced (with what I assume is some chemical help) twins.
1
I believe you're wrong about Ashley Manning and her twins. Roger Federer and his wife Mirka have two sets of twins. And I don't think they needed chemical help. It's part of their DNA.
1
Susan - Women who take fertility drugs to help them conceive often have twins/multiples. I think the HGH/fertility link needs to be addressed here.
I'm not really surprised if it is true. Professional sports players as well as teams may be looking for any edge they can achieve, fair or foul.
Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing. ~ Vince Lombardi
Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing. ~ Vince Lombardi
I think the best thing you can do is the eye test: just look at the players. How can a 300 pound lineman have speed like a running back? The weight of the average player has increased by 50-70 pounds in the last 25 years. Remember when Refrigerator Perry was the first 300 pound player? Now every lineman is over 300 pounds but runs like a gazelle. Something is going on and needs to be exposed. Just like the US industrial food system where livestock are mature in 1 year and are fed huge amounts of hormones and antibiotics, the players are pumped up unnaturally. If you take an honest look at the players you can tell something isn't right.
33
Who cares? What's next congessinional hearings? How about we go after real abuses that effect real people not just team owners, players and bookies. How about truly investigating Wall Stree, dark money in politics and what kind of job enhancements are legislatures getting.
What's next, Miss America had a nose job to gain an edge?
They have been cheating since day one. The only problem with baseball was that you couldn't deny the fact that they all had regular heads one season and the heads of a bull mastif the next.
Please another giant waste of time and if congress spends a nickel on this ridiculousness, they are shameless.
What's next, Miss America had a nose job to gain an edge?
They have been cheating since day one. The only problem with baseball was that you couldn't deny the fact that they all had regular heads one season and the heads of a bull mastif the next.
Please another giant waste of time and if congress spends a nickel on this ridiculousness, they are shameless.
1
It's got to be easy to beat the tests. Look how long Lance Armstrong go away with it.
1
I'm not sure I really see the problem anymore with using drugs to try and extend a career in a lucrative business, a business where your career can be gone before you know it.
1
I guess we'd be more likely to believe Manning's denial if we hadn't heard similar denials from Lance Armstrong and others who turned out to be users. Ryan Braun accused the man whose job it was to handle urine specimens of not properly doing it and that that was the cause of his positive drug test even though he knew the reason it was positive was because he was using the banned substance. And years ago Keith Hernandez accused a players' union official of lying about Hernandez's use of cocaine and destroyed the man's career. It was only when Hernandez was testifying under oath did he admit that what the man had said was true. Hernandez said he lied because he didn't think the truth would ever come out. It seems a common path for many athletes to take.
4
Let us remember the rather large legion of athletes who have blamed a positive drug test on something they ate or impure vitamin pills. Denial is not just a river in Egypt, after all.
1
No drug test here - is there?
It's amazing that Mr. Powell and other journalists are giving Peyton Manning such a pass on these accusations, when they crucified Tom Brady for being allegedly somewhat aware of footballs being deflated.
Not a single shred of evidence of tied Brady to any illegal activity yet some of these journalists and broadcasters had him painted guilty because "he had to know" the footballs had been deflated, even though science proved otherwise.
Let's give Manning the same treatment to be fair!
Not a single shred of evidence of tied Brady to any illegal activity yet some of these journalists and broadcasters had him painted guilty because "he had to know" the footballs had been deflated, even though science proved otherwise.
Let's give Manning the same treatment to be fair!
2
agree!
For starters, Al-Jazeera is not the National Enquirer or the Weekly World News. It is a respected news gathering and reporting organization with higher ethical standards than most. Given that, what would be in it for them to publish a story like this without properly vetting its sources? Personally, I think there is something to this. The only question is how successful the NFL will be when it brings its big guns to bear on Al-Jazeera in an effort to remove the teeth from the story and compromise its credibility. Anyone who underestimates to ability of the NFL to influence outcomes is hopelessly naive.
5
Manning's bluster, anger and denial are meaningless. Lance Armstrong denied and denied and denied for years. And, we all know where that ended up.
Well of course if I, or any regular human I know, had four neck surgeries, and my doctor failed to mention, "never play football again if you value your life", I'd sue her for malpractice. With a neck and spine that have taken that much damage, jogging is inadvisable at first.
But this is nine-figure football, and to get that nine figures I guess you have to go the whole nine yards. Take the most effective and least testable muscle-growth-promoting drugs, and you stay on top of your deteriorating body; don't and you get nudged out of the lineup then out of the contract. And like every ex-football player, you have little hope of earning that kind of pay again, so your entire life's income is mainly riding on a ten year career if you're lucky.
Anyway all this is kind of obvious, but the answer to this question isn't to me: is there anything good that comes of today's professional football industry? All I see are guys destroying their bodies and brains, and billions wasted on no tangible product.
But this is nine-figure football, and to get that nine figures I guess you have to go the whole nine yards. Take the most effective and least testable muscle-growth-promoting drugs, and you stay on top of your deteriorating body; don't and you get nudged out of the lineup then out of the contract. And like every ex-football player, you have little hope of earning that kind of pay again, so your entire life's income is mainly riding on a ten year career if you're lucky.
Anyway all this is kind of obvious, but the answer to this question isn't to me: is there anything good that comes of today's professional football industry? All I see are guys destroying their bodies and brains, and billions wasted on no tangible product.
2
Mr. Manning's face will undoubtedly adorn billboards in Indianapolis and Denver for purposes of advertising for many years to come, to his great profit. At his income level, he probably owns half those cities. But he should have huge endorsement income for most of his lifetime, that is, unless he is rendered a pariah like Lance Armstrong. Did the times say he was "aggressively" refuting these allegations? That's good. I feel better now.
2
Dear Here,
Great points, I should have said, most ex-football players can't earn that kind of salary again. The major famous ones that show up in tons of commercials, they can earn for awhile. Their commercials do stop running well before they hit 65 though.
Great points, I should have said, most ex-football players can't earn that kind of salary again. The major famous ones that show up in tons of commercials, they can earn for awhile. Their commercials do stop running well before they hit 65 though.
Who cares? It's their bodies-to do with what they want. Everyone else on the field knows what is going on-can join in or quit. This is no different that the Roman Coliseum games. Spectators can choose to watch or not. I choose not to watch. Sundays are good days to get outside.
Come on folks, who cares? It means nothing. Pro sports is just another commercial vehicle to sell you stuff. If doped players make the contest more exciting, then it leads to more viewers and more revenue. It's certainly not rocket science. The simple solution, as a viewer, is not to participate.
1
Me thinks Al Jazeera does us a great service. They are fulfilling the role that our domestic media, owned and incestuous related as they are to wealthy self-interests, were long ago compromised in. Investigative journalism of the uncomfortable (to vested interests) kind. I'm lovin' it (hear that NY Times?).
In any case about the nature of this article. It's unfortunate that in the pursuit of their own self-interests players, under the gaze of their coaches and owners mind you, engage in such "turbo-charging" of their bodies. The human body, as it ages, should not be so turbo'ed much as you wouldn't take a 40 year old, much traveled, car then do the same and take it out for a high-speed race-way jaunt.
Regardless, it's a "do whatever it takes" attitude with nary a thought as to how it all impacts them later on down the road. There is always a bill to pay for whatever you do, and from the Payton's on down none are exempt from it. I'd be more than willing to let them lay in the bed they make for themselves excepting my tax dollars will eventually be brought to bear in supporting them when they lay with that end result...making my own health care costs larger. So for that if no other reason this sort of behavior needs to be reigned in. The abuses go too far, and the societal costs are too high.
John~
American Net'Zen
In any case about the nature of this article. It's unfortunate that in the pursuit of their own self-interests players, under the gaze of their coaches and owners mind you, engage in such "turbo-charging" of their bodies. The human body, as it ages, should not be so turbo'ed much as you wouldn't take a 40 year old, much traveled, car then do the same and take it out for a high-speed race-way jaunt.
Regardless, it's a "do whatever it takes" attitude with nary a thought as to how it all impacts them later on down the road. There is always a bill to pay for whatever you do, and from the Payton's on down none are exempt from it. I'd be more than willing to let them lay in the bed they make for themselves excepting my tax dollars will eventually be brought to bear in supporting them when they lay with that end result...making my own health care costs larger. So for that if no other reason this sort of behavior needs to be reigned in. The abuses go too far, and the societal costs are too high.
John~
American Net'Zen
3
Manning is, I think, a special case. He had surgery. He took all kinds of drugs. He did physical therapy. At what point does all this medical intervention become "doping"?
3
Easy, as soon as you take a banned substance. Voila-doping.
2
Eighteen paragraphs into the article - eighteen - we learn that Al Jazeera's primary "witness" to Peyton Manning's alleged used of H.G.H. retracted all his accusations. Why isn't that the headline and the opening paragraph of this article? Instead, we have the inflammatory and baseless "Claims of Peyton Manning Doping..." headline, which just reinforces Al Jazeera's baseless claims and leaves the casual reader with the idea that Manning joins the ranks of disgraced athletes. Not well done, NYT.
9
The key source in Al Jazeera's article has recanted. Catch up, I hope Peyton files a law suit for millions of dollars.
“The statements on any recordings or any communications that Al-Jazeera plans to air are absolutely false and incorrect,” Mr. Sly said on YouTube. “To be clear, I am recanting any such statements and there is no truth to any statement of mine that Al Jazeera plans to air. Under no circumstances should any of those statements recordings or communications be aired.”
“The statements on any recordings or any communications that Al-Jazeera plans to air are absolutely false and incorrect,” Mr. Sly said on YouTube. “To be clear, I am recanting any such statements and there is no truth to any statement of mine that Al Jazeera plans to air. Under no circumstances should any of those statements recordings or communications be aired.”
4
>>The key source in Al Jazeera's article has recanted. Catch up.>>
Catch up, yourself.
The key source was caught by an undercover camera as he was trying to push this stuff.
He is denying what he said candidly, in private, after it has gone public.
It is in his self-interest to deny it, facing prosecution otherwise.
Perhaps you would benefit from actually watching the documentary, which is well done in my opinion.
Catch up, yourself.
The key source was caught by an undercover camera as he was trying to push this stuff.
He is denying what he said candidly, in private, after it has gone public.
It is in his self-interest to deny it, facing prosecution otherwise.
Perhaps you would benefit from actually watching the documentary, which is well done in my opinion.
2
Well, Al Jazeera has moved smartly to perhaps get itself off the hook for a future defamation lawsuit filed by Mr. Manning. But what about that notorious concept in tort law (?) of "republication" ? Is the New York Times liable since a highly flawed story was repeated ? That NYT cleverly inserted near the bottom end some stuff about their source lying does not do a very good job of defense, or does it?
I'll bet that NYT tomorrow morning prints a carefully weasel-worded (by the legal folks) "explanatory" paragraph or two.
Let's sit back and watch--Manning either did or did not take the hormone.
I'll bet that NYT tomorrow morning prints a carefully weasel-worded (by the legal folks) "explanatory" paragraph or two.
Let's sit back and watch--Manning either did or did not take the hormone.
1
Tennis?
Prove it. If you can't there should be consequences.
28
For the first time in human history people are getting younger as they get older.
For the first time in the history of the universe evolution is occurring instantaneously.
Human beings are evolving to be faster, bigger and stronger- and this evolutionary process seems to only affect highly paid professional athletes.
The sun rises in the East and sets in the West. Or so they say. I will wait until there is proof before I count on that happening tomorrow.
For the first time in the history of the universe evolution is occurring instantaneously.
Human beings are evolving to be faster, bigger and stronger- and this evolutionary process seems to only affect highly paid professional athletes.
The sun rises in the East and sets in the West. Or so they say. I will wait until there is proof before I count on that happening tomorrow.
2
The NFL couldn't *prove* Tom Brady did anything wrong over Deflategate, but punished him anyway. Apparently, "general awareness," not proof, is all they need to indict.
Anyone who has played football knows, that any quarterback of Brady's experience had to know the balls were deflated. Virtually every veteran quarterback with any ounce of brains or credibility has either stated this on TV or knows in their heart this is true. It is called drawing a reasonable inference based on the circumstantial evidence. It is also called common sense!
This article, what it implies, and the conclusions that all commenters have drawn are probably all wrong, and certainly entirely premature.
The 'report' in question has been thoroughly discredited; why the rush to accept it as true?
The 'report' in question has been thoroughly discredited; why the rush to accept it as true?
5
It's time to scrap silly drug laws and let adults do whatever they want. This isn't news, it's nanny-state pedantry.
Does the use of HGH to promote healing during a lengthy time away from the game for injury constitute doping? I guess so, based on the current rules of the NFL. But I suspect that if many of us shared the same injuries and pain, and if we were offered a product that would accelerate healing as HGH clearly does, we would take it. I do not know if Manning took HGH or not but I would not blame him if he did. Now, if he was taking it nightly to recover before the next game, then that to me would constitute doping.
3
Sorry, but I find this one, like much of Al Jazeera's reporting, to be doubtful at best, the desperate move of a network that has fewer viewers than the average Manhattan block.
4
PEDs in football? Go ahead, nobody cares. The stats aren't revered or important like in baseball and these guys are all making more dough than they'd make driving the truck that otherwise awaits them, so might as well spend a little and stimulate America's health care sector a little. Plus, watching a 320-pound DE obliterate a 260-lb running back is a lot more entertaining than a 220-pounder doing it to a 180-pounder. Don't mind the concussion.
As for role models, take your pick: some brick-like massive football player or some athlete who used to be a guy and used to be named Bruce? They're not role models any more -- America has none that the media want to write about. So dope away -- you're here to entertain, and you know it!
As for role models, take your pick: some brick-like massive football player or some athlete who used to be a guy and used to be named Bruce? They're not role models any more -- America has none that the media want to write about. So dope away -- you're here to entertain, and you know it!
2
Don't we know by now that most fans want to see bones crushed and ligaments torn when they watch pro football? They are not concerned with such niceties as drug use, concussions, or criminal behavior off the field for that matter.
You've got to think in terms of Roman gladiatorial combat, with fans giving a thumbs up or down, and bodies dragged away in the dirt to be replaced with new combatants. Technology has changed in 2,000 years, but not the mind set of spectators.
You've got to think in terms of Roman gladiatorial combat, with fans giving a thumbs up or down, and bodies dragged away in the dirt to be replaced with new combatants. Technology has changed in 2,000 years, but not the mind set of spectators.
2
Wouldn't it be interesting to group all the human growth hormone cheaters together to form the "Dopers League." The higher the dosage the better. Only those players who do not dope would be penalized. We'd have the joy of watching players, muscles bulging through their uniforms, perform feats of wonders. If they suffered injuries, they be back in the lineup the next game. The only time stretchers would come onto the field would be to remove dead players, felled by eye-popping heart attacks.
It's hard not to be cynical about the big bucks entertainment industry called major league sports.
It's even harder not to be cynical about the proliferation of media outlets scratching for controversy to help fill air time and improve ratings.
It's even harder not to be cynical about the proliferation of media outlets scratching for controversy to help fill air time and improve ratings.
3
I don't get it. It's ok to surgically modify the body but not ok to use hormones. Seems to me the surgeons have a better lobbyist to pro-sports and the legislatures than the endocrinologists. It also seems awfully hypocritical. Tommy John surgery is no less invasive and corrosive than steroids, blood doping and so on, and often just as dangerous. But the games must go on because the $ are there.
1
When a story is too good to be true, it's too good to be true. Manning coming back from what amounts to a broken neck to superstar status was too good to be true, at least by ordinary means.
The media seems very selective about which stories it pursues on this issue. Manning went unquestioned until now. Dave Henderson died yesterday, the latest in a long line of steroids era baseball players to die in their 40s and 50s. That line began with Kirby Puckett, who they all said looked like a tree stump, but who was popular and never questioned. I just looked at video of Henderson. Looks like he came from the same acorn.
The media seems very selective about which stories it pursues on this issue. Manning went unquestioned until now. Dave Henderson died yesterday, the latest in a long line of steroids era baseball players to die in their 40s and 50s. That line began with Kirby Puckett, who they all said looked like a tree stump, but who was popular and never questioned. I just looked at video of Henderson. Looks like he came from the same acorn.
2
The root cause of the problem is the fans who live and die for their teams and who elevate Sunday football to more than just a game. I have a friend who's a New England Patriots fan, and when he describes the game he uses the pronoun "we." "We were driving for the touchdown but then we fumbled. We could have won if we had another minute but the clock ran out."
This importance given to a sport drives the money made by the owners and the salaries made by the players. It is any wonder that doping is rampant if it enables the show to go on?
This importance given to a sport drives the money made by the owners and the salaries made by the players. It is any wonder that doping is rampant if it enables the show to go on?
Correction here, please. They did not say HGH was prescribed for Manning's wife; they said it was shipped to her. We can agree "she would not appear to qualify".
All you have to do is look at photos of drafted high school or college players with their families. The player is huge, the siblings not so much. I'm afraid this all starts in high school, begging the question: where are the parents, the family doctors, the coaches, etc. It's child abuse to the many and financial success and medical issues in their 40's and 50's for the few.
All you have to do is look at photos of drafted high school or college players with their families. The player is huge, the siblings not so much. I'm afraid this all starts in high school, begging the question: where are the parents, the family doctors, the coaches, etc. It's child abuse to the many and financial success and medical issues in their 40's and 50's for the few.
Where are the receipts and documentation for the shipments?
The horribly unfair result of accusations like these is that they can never be fully washed away whether they are true or not. Reputations and legacies are irreparably damaged regardless of guilt or innocence.
5
This is shoddy journalism. An article on performance enhancing drugs in any and all sports, especially if it sheds light on new developments is one thing, but an article based on allegations which the accuser has already denied and retracted is another. The accuser's denial is buried in a one sentence paragraph. The following paragraph goes on as if the accuser, Charles Sly, had never denied the accusation.
2
Does anyone actually expect N.F.L. Commissioner Roger Goodell to "open this box a little wider" about H.G.H. when he has been so shameless and superficial in response to the monstrous plague of severe brain trauma that has such tragic implications for players past, present and future?
Dream on.
As was reported in The Times last week, the latest study of chronic traumatic encephalopathy, or C.T.E. -- a degenerative disease made easily understandable to the layperson in the Frontline documentary "League of Denial" available for free viewing online and in the current feature film "Concussion" -- is being funded by $16 million in grants. The N.F.L.'s contribution? Zero.
Given that kind of attitude, don't hold your breath waiting for the Goodell Inc. financial colossus to pay more than the customary lip service to alleged doping. Especially when one of the names under discussion is golden boy Peyton Manning.
Yet think about how much time, energy and legal expense the N.F.L. devoted to arguing about air pressure in footballs. A much higher priority, it would seem, than the impact of this sport on the human mind and life expectancy.
Dream on.
As was reported in The Times last week, the latest study of chronic traumatic encephalopathy, or C.T.E. -- a degenerative disease made easily understandable to the layperson in the Frontline documentary "League of Denial" available for free viewing online and in the current feature film "Concussion" -- is being funded by $16 million in grants. The N.F.L.'s contribution? Zero.
Given that kind of attitude, don't hold your breath waiting for the Goodell Inc. financial colossus to pay more than the customary lip service to alleged doping. Especially when one of the names under discussion is golden boy Peyton Manning.
Yet think about how much time, energy and legal expense the N.F.L. devoted to arguing about air pressure in footballs. A much higher priority, it would seem, than the impact of this sport on the human mind and life expectancy.
3
Let's remember a presumption of innocence ... especially when the AJ report is based on the uncorroborated (and recanted) testimony of one man whose credibility has not been tested. Let's also remember not to engage in the logical fallacy of 'lots of professional athletes have doped in the past to become superstars; therefore, because Mr Manning is a superstar, he must have doped.'
This is a slipshod piece by the usually stellar NYT. Why? It spends a substantial part of the article implying that doping is and has been a huge problem in professional sports, especially in football, and therefore an aging, damaged star like Mr Manning could only have regained his form by using illegal drugs.
If this were a trial based on the facts as presented, it would be an acquittal in about 30 seconds. The readers should presume and conclude the same in the absence of new evidence. All three Manning have earned our respect through exceptionally hard work and dedication, undiminished until proven otherwise.
This is a slipshod piece by the usually stellar NYT. Why? It spends a substantial part of the article implying that doping is and has been a huge problem in professional sports, especially in football, and therefore an aging, damaged star like Mr Manning could only have regained his form by using illegal drugs.
If this were a trial based on the facts as presented, it would be an acquittal in about 30 seconds. The readers should presume and conclude the same in the absence of new evidence. All three Manning have earned our respect through exceptionally hard work and dedication, undiminished until proven otherwise.
3
Mild correction, I believe the plural is "Menning".
2
Peyton is a great player, and has been a responsible citizen in every city he has played in. However, Lance Armstrong and others were able to conceal illegal drug years for years while they were winning titles. Apparently many on the Russian Olympic team cheated. The Denver media and other media need to resist the tendency to whitewash this case. He should get fair treatment and let the facts fall where they may.
1
"In baseball, we assume progress. The biceps of home run hitters no longer bear resemblance to those of Captain America."
That statement begs the question as to how the greatest female tennis player of the last 15 years has those biceps. No, we can't ask that question because it's not proper to speculate in that case, that would be racist and sexist.
That statement begs the question as to how the greatest female tennis player of the last 15 years has those biceps. No, we can't ask that question because it's not proper to speculate in that case, that would be racist and sexist.
1
This report was very well done on a 60 Minutes professional level. Let's see who is the first to offer to take an independent polygraph test. Ok it's not a admitted in a courtroom, but routinely used as an investigative tool. Something tells me Peyton won't take a poly test, and I really don't think his wife was taking performance enhancing drugs though it seems Manning froze when he wasn't able to really answer that question.
1
The other problem is the polygraph is highly unreliable with many false positives and false negatives, and can physiologically manipulated. It is not admissible in courts for a reason - it is unreliable!
The underlying "proof" against Manning is both discredited and untrustworthy. Why use it to prove what we all know--that wherever there is big money to be made there will be cheating and corruption. Besides, using steroids to recover from an injury is not wrong. Using them to enhance power during play is. There is a distinction.
2
What's sort of weird about the documentary is the fact that this "Sly" character did not even work at Guyer in 2011. He did not start working there until 2013.
What is also a little strange is the fact that the documentary produced no tangible evidence such as shipping records or bills of lading showing exactly what was shipped to Ashley Manning, when it was shipped, and so on.
My concern here is that sports writers do not understand the standards of investigative journalism--so much of their work involves opinions and information from people who might not even be spectators to an event on which they are commenting.
Documentaries are a different animal. They have to "vetted" and part of that vetting would have been to ask a few simple questions of the folks who made the documentary such as: Your primary source was not even employed at the clinic at the time he claims he witnessed these events. How, then, could he have witnessed them?
How can people produce documentaries with such glaring faults?
What is also a little strange is the fact that the documentary produced no tangible evidence such as shipping records or bills of lading showing exactly what was shipped to Ashley Manning, when it was shipped, and so on.
My concern here is that sports writers do not understand the standards of investigative journalism--so much of their work involves opinions and information from people who might not even be spectators to an event on which they are commenting.
Documentaries are a different animal. They have to "vetted" and part of that vetting would have been to ask a few simple questions of the folks who made the documentary such as: Your primary source was not even employed at the clinic at the time he claims he witnessed these events. How, then, could he have witnessed them?
How can people produce documentaries with such glaring faults?
2
I haven't seen the al Jezeera report so I cannot comment on Manning but as far as this story is concerned: "If Sly fabricated his 2011 service at the center, however, how did he know that Manning and his wife had been patients there?" If this is only or best thing in this guys favor, then he's got real issues. Even if patient records were very secure (which they aren't) the names of patients can be determined intentionally or accidentally by almost anyone there. It is ethics and fear of HIPAA that keep people from doing it or at least spreading the word. In fact, even revealing that Manning was a patient there probably subjects this guy to legal liability. Which may be why he is suddenly denying it.
Pro sports need a pause and a reboot. I understand the payout in both money, fame and hero worship must be the siren of all calls but can't we blood-thirsty watchers lower our expectations?
In pro FB, put in an age or time limit for length of player service, give pro players pensions and lifelong healthcare and any team found to have players using drugs to enhance performance will be automatically out of play for a whole season. Make it hurt the owners.
I no longer watch pro FB because to me, a female, those giant, over-developed males are painful to see and machine-like. The game is no longer skill and hard work it's just about how much money can be generated in this strangely non-profit industry.
In pro FB, put in an age or time limit for length of player service, give pro players pensions and lifelong healthcare and any team found to have players using drugs to enhance performance will be automatically out of play for a whole season. Make it hurt the owners.
I no longer watch pro FB because to me, a female, those giant, over-developed males are painful to see and machine-like. The game is no longer skill and hard work it's just about how much money can be generated in this strangely non-profit industry.
1
Peyton Manning was recovering from his surgery in 2011. Even if he took something, which I do not believe, he was not playing football when he went to this clinic. The HGH was sent to his wife. They had twins in 2011. HGH is known to sometimes aid in the success of in vitro fertilization. It is likely that the HGH was used by his wife.
1
This piece is an editorial or opinion, not a news article, but it is not placed in the opinion or editorial section of the paper. Like the work of Liam Collins for al Jazeera, it is not genuine news reporting but rather an anti-NFL/MLB diatribe designed to appeal to readers who cannot distinguish fact from opinion. The Times takes a step down whenever it places work like this outside of the opinion pages and into the mix with other news articles.
1
I'm not sure which is sadder; this shady expose, or the fact that in this day and age we consider an athletes denial as tantamount to an admission of guilt?
3
I'm going to withhold my defense of Peyton Manning for now, as I was one of the fools who for year defended Lance Armstrong only to be greatly disappointed by that gifted athlete's years of tangled lies and deception.
However Michael Powell's article does clearly point out the disturbing truth about college and professional football...high school football players are miraculously transformed into muscled masses adding 30, 40 or 50 pounds of pure muscle in just a couple of years. For most, that just can't happen without enhancing drugs.
And while withholding my defense of Mr. Manning, I do firmly believe in our legal system that all are innocent until proven guilty and that also goes for Mr. Manning.
However Michael Powell's article does clearly point out the disturbing truth about college and professional football...high school football players are miraculously transformed into muscled masses adding 30, 40 or 50 pounds of pure muscle in just a couple of years. For most, that just can't happen without enhancing drugs.
And while withholding my defense of Mr. Manning, I do firmly believe in our legal system that all are innocent until proven guilty and that also goes for Mr. Manning.
2
Did you feel the same about the Brady "scandal"?
Did you wait for all the evidence to come out then?
Did you wait for all the evidence to come out then?
1
Americans have become like the Imperial Romans at the gladiatorial games, fans of watching physically prime males kill each other or, at the least, risk their lives. If Preston Manning wishes to cash in on that market demand by using chemicals to enhance his physique, is that wrong? He provides satisfaction to millions of fans, who willingly pay to watch him perform. Do those fans really care whether his physique and prowess are natural? I doubt it.
7
The shock would be that this is a shock.
Aging baseball players who lose their power and suddenly discover it the next year, anyone?
Aging baseball players who lose their power and suddenly discover it the next year, anyone?
31
Too much money -- too many incentives not to dope -- just ask Barry Bonds.
34
Striking that it takes outsider news orgs like AlJazeera or, in the case of Biogenesis, a Miami alt-weekly, to investigate drugs in major league sports. Hmm, why might 60 Minutes not be eager to look under the hood of the football games driving their ratings? Meanwhile I wonder if MLB will devote the same resources to investigating a drug ring based in Indiana and Austin that it devoted to busting mostly Latin players in Miami. I think they probably will follow this up pretty hard. The NFL -- a whole other story. I'm not holding my breath for them to follow up.
46
Although to be fair: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/steroids-prescribed-to-nfl-players/ etc etc
There is a huge difference between using HGH to recover from an injury and using it as a performance-enhancing drug. There are many drugs that have great value in a therapeutic context that are prohibited for other uses.
79
No, there isn't any difference. Both are illegal under federal law. HGH is one of a handful of drugs that can be only be legally prescribed for a limited number of conditions and as far as I am aware recovering from injuries is not one of them anymore than is using it to improve athletic performance. In fact, there is no research demonstrating that its use aids in recovery from injuries.
No. Wrong. It is a banned substance in or out of season by the NFL and International Olympic Committee. The FDA treats HGH as a controlled substance- like opioid pain relievers or amphetamines. It is NOT routinely used in anyone recovering from injury in any field of medicine. If used as such, it is "off label." Doctors who do so quickly become the pariah of their medical community. Everyone in medicine understands what these aging clinics are. Legalized doping. And no long term studies have been done to show it is safe. The only authorized use is in dwarfism.
No there is not a difference. You cannot separate the recovery effect from the performance-enhancing effect.
Yes, there are nagging questions. But unfortunately, the Al Jazeera documentary does not answer any of them. Has this NYT reporter watched it? It is shoddy journalism, which is a shame since this is such an important topic. Just because the story might be true doesn't mean Al Jazeera had the goods to report it. CBS learned that with Rathergate, and Al Jazeera is about to learn it again, the hard way.
60
What specifically in the documentary exemplifies shoddy journalism? I just saw an interview with one of the reporters behind it and she seemed very professional, articulate and informed. She also pointed out that for all his outrage, Manning did not deny HGH being delivered to his wife and challenged other reporters to specifically press Manning and others on that one very important point.
2
Football without steroids is like hockey without ice.
64
Football without steroids is like hockey without steroids. No?
18
Absolutely.
We know our pro athletes dope, we just prefer not to admit it.
Frankly, I don't see any real problem with it. Movie stars get plastic surgery to keep up their livelihoods, so athletes ought to do the equivalent for their livelihoods. Americans would have no problems with steroids if the East Germans didn't beat us to it.
Pro sports is entertainment, and the entertainers have to entertain. Taking steroids out of football would make for a dull game. Hockey, too.
We know our pro athletes dope, we just prefer not to admit it.
Frankly, I don't see any real problem with it. Movie stars get plastic surgery to keep up their livelihoods, so athletes ought to do the equivalent for their livelihoods. Americans would have no problems with steroids if the East Germans didn't beat us to it.
Pro sports is entertainment, and the entertainers have to entertain. Taking steroids out of football would make for a dull game. Hockey, too.
1
This point of view is anathema to a real sports fans who understand that PEDs would turn football, for one, into pro wrestling. Is this really what we want?
1
Just watched the show. He is doped.
Goodell and his crew are complicit.
The entire USA pro sports fiefdom should be investigated.
There is no demotion. Never. Oligarchy. With doped up exploits.
Goodell and his crew are complicit.
The entire USA pro sports fiefdom should be investigated.
There is no demotion. Never. Oligarchy. With doped up exploits.
24
Are there no steroids in the SEC? Do you not think that half of the players in the semifinals New Years Eve are going to be hopped up on steroids? Or is it all of them?
1
From track and field to baseball, to football. What next, men's figure skating? Ringling Brothers Circus performers? Women's badminton? All for the money- just pathetic.
1
Just watched the whole report online (youtube). Really dirty stuff. Huge sports fan who isn't delusional to think this isn't prevalent but stunned by how openly the bad guys talked about doping - so matter of fact. Definitely feel that the leagues and sports federations are complicit.
33
If they were complicit no one would ever be suspended and there wouldn't be mandatory drug testing. Once certain drugs such as hgh are determined to be safe and effective in helping recover from injury, leagues need to stop banning them. It's unfair to the players ask them to put their bodies on the line daily in practice, training, and game situations then deny them the most effective form of treatment when the inevitable happens.
29
The video certainly is damning. Anecdotes are not evidence, but the anecdotes are given so freely and in such detail, it's hard not to believe that this is going on at a massive scale. Either way, Sly had to say it was all a lie once it came out he had been taped. But it's hard not to believe him when he speaks about players in such detail and was confirmed to have worked at the clinic where Manning was treated after his injury.
Your argument is that it is either white or black; they have to be totally complicit and can not be partially complicit. So it is impossible that they would let the stars get away with doping and bust the no names to show what an effective job they are doing?
If it is unfair to ask them to put the bodies on line then maybe the game should be banned. So it is ok to let players keep getting concussions, just as long as the get the best treatment afterward.
If it is unfair to ask them to put the bodies on line then maybe the game should be banned. So it is ok to let players keep getting concussions, just as long as the get the best treatment afterward.
The Times’ Sam Abt was one of the last defenders of Lance Armstrong.
Now, they go from conservative to bold, or at least Mike Powell, one of their best columnists, does.
He's asking questions that should be asked, not making any claims. So nobody needs to get their jocks in a knot.
Professional athletes perform superhuman feats which by their nature are suspicious.
After Deflategate, I wouldn't trust Tom Brady as far as I could throw him. And Manning has always seemed too good to be true. And has he always told the truth? I mean, If you were worth 150 million, would you really eat that pizza and oreos he pushes?
Now Inquiring minds want to know: How did he go from geriatric to gridiron in a few snaps? As Lance Armstrong said to Tyler Hamilton about some other guy: "It's just not normal."
HGH worked for Bart Starr and if I were Manning, I would have tried it. As a matter of fact, everytime I creak I wish I had some.
And there's also another drug I wish was legal without a prescription and put in the gatorade of all major league sports: sodium pentothal, or as it is known on the street, truth serum.