Wouldn't it be wonderful if the New York Times published an editorial about the need of women to be responsible about "the right of women to control what happens with their own bodies"?
24
Time to read, or re-read, Margaret Atwood's eerily prophetic novel "The Handmaid's Tale". Beg, borrow or steal a copy.
This country is on a dangerous slippery slope toward a scary hybrid of theocracy and rule by the 1%. The only thing - the ONLY thing - that can avert disaster is for every sane citizen over 18 to turn out and vote, not just in 2016, but in 2018, 2020, 2022, so that Democrats keep the White House, regain control of Congress, and most important of all, prevent Republicans from gaining total control over state governments, because it's the states that are ripping away women's rights to control their own bodies. And it's the Supreme Court that can let them get away with it.
Please. It doesn't matter whether you are a Bernie supporter, or a Clinton devotee, or whatever. Vote. Don't let a Republican get elected. Just one more Scalia on the Supreme Court and it's game over.
This country is on a dangerous slippery slope toward a scary hybrid of theocracy and rule by the 1%. The only thing - the ONLY thing - that can avert disaster is for every sane citizen over 18 to turn out and vote, not just in 2016, but in 2018, 2020, 2022, so that Democrats keep the White House, regain control of Congress, and most important of all, prevent Republicans from gaining total control over state governments, because it's the states that are ripping away women's rights to control their own bodies. And it's the Supreme Court that can let them get away with it.
Please. It doesn't matter whether you are a Bernie supporter, or a Clinton devotee, or whatever. Vote. Don't let a Republican get elected. Just one more Scalia on the Supreme Court and it's game over.
138
If men could get pregnant abortion would be a sacrament.
82
Apparently, there are two kinds of people in the world: Corporations and fetuses.
99
Control, control, control - this seems to be what the GOP is all about. Apparently they regard women as a sub-species, kept around. grudgingly, for breeding purposes. They appear to have an equal disdain for the poor, who suffer the most when their agenda of draconian legal restrictions (not to mention tax cuts) are gerrymandered down our throats.
62
Virtually all (I challenge you to name another source) the problems of the world are instigated, executed, and promulgated by men, and yet we focus on the behavior of women incessantly. If men would spend their efforts regulating themselves and their brothers and sons towards a fairer, more peaceful, more self-aware society, oh what a merrier world this could be.
No breath being held here.
No breath being held here.
96
Concurrent to this is the Hobby Lobby decision which places yet another burden on women in terms of easy and inexpensive access to birth control. Looking at this Supreme Court Decision as well as the legislative laws mentioned in the editorial, it seems that we want to send women back to the 18th century and tell them it is their duty to have as many children as possible. That a woman would be forced to carry a fetus that was the result of rape or incest makes me want to throw up. Many if not most of the major religions have elements of their faith which are hostile to women and members of the LGBTQ community (usually phrased as modesty -or the idea that God is male). It is time we start to distance ourselves from this notion of religious tolerance which is easily and frequently used to curtail the freedom of women and their reproductive rights.
40
The headline has it wrong. It is not a reproductive rights rollback as much as an abortion rights rollback. Our right to reproduce has not been reduced, has it? Even in China the right to reproduce has been expanded in 2015.
8
How completely hypocritical, Republican Politicians who rage against government intervention at the same time insist on governing what a woman can do with HER OWN BODY!
Women, Remember in November and vote these charlatans out of office! Less of their governing would restore your personal liberty in America.
Women, Remember in November and vote these charlatans out of office! Less of their governing would restore your personal liberty in America.
57
As the editorial states, "state legislators passed 57 new constraints on a woman’s right to choose." What the editorial fails to clearly articulate is that VOTERS in those backward states elected those legislators and tacitly support those votes. Just as we're seeing with Trump's candidacy, while he spews his filth his numbers increase so let's be clear about all this. These phenomenon aren't out there in the universe happening by fairy dust. PEOPLE - VOTERS - are propelling these things and THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is the real (and intractable) problem facing this land.
39
I am pro choice . . . precisely because I am pro life . . .
31
If legislatures would simply clearly define the difference between therapeutic and elective abortions this wouldn't even be an issue. Therapeutic procedures are those backed by real medical necessity and won't go away by different expectations or behaviors. Elective abortion is done for circumstances which can change even in a day. Since when did it become acceptable to the American public to enact a human death without clear and convincing evidence it was needed?
11
The fight for reproductive rights for women and their families appears to be never-ending and certainly is a global issue. Legislative bans on birth control and abortion services primarily take away reproductive health rights from women and families who are not educated or wealthy across the world.
Those of us not connected to a fundamentalist religion do find the passion of those who seek to control women and their access to reproductive services difficult to understand. Walk through the protesters at any Planned Parenthood clinic while they hold graphic pictures of a fetus in one hand and their child's hand with the other, while they shout the intimidating slogans of their movement, while they clutch their crosses with tears running down their faces; it is hard to fathom where all this passionate opposition to a legal medical procedure comes from. Why aren't there similar demonstrations at food banks, free dental clinics, gun shops or banks?
The question for many of us is whether medical advances which make clinic abortions unnecessary will eliminate the protests around health clinics which screen for cancer, provide birth control and test for STD's or whether the passion to control women's reproductive health will continue to spark protests and extreme legislation.
Those of us not connected to a fundamentalist religion do find the passion of those who seek to control women and their access to reproductive services difficult to understand. Walk through the protesters at any Planned Parenthood clinic while they hold graphic pictures of a fetus in one hand and their child's hand with the other, while they shout the intimidating slogans of their movement, while they clutch their crosses with tears running down their faces; it is hard to fathom where all this passionate opposition to a legal medical procedure comes from. Why aren't there similar demonstrations at food banks, free dental clinics, gun shops or banks?
The question for many of us is whether medical advances which make clinic abortions unnecessary will eliminate the protests around health clinics which screen for cancer, provide birth control and test for STD's or whether the passion to control women's reproductive health will continue to spark protests and extreme legislation.
27
My mother and father were involved in the pro-life movement in Boston and then on Cape Cod years ago. I remember my mother speaking about one of the female members and her comment that they do their pro-life work quietly. Well this woman would be very pleased to see the result of her wonderful labor and progress the movement has made over the years in defending life in the womb. I was so impressed with these members that I too joined the movement. Right to lifers are kind and caring people who feel passionate about their work. If I did not respect these people, I would never give my time and money to them. These are fine and sincere people. I do hope the Times will print my comment please.
15
I can not help but notice that pro abortion advocates use the same extreme langue as pro gun rights advocates. 1,000,000 babies killed a year, 30,000 gun deaths. Assault weapons legal, abortion into the 9th month, on and on. Both resist the tiniest limits and both for the same reason, distrust of the other view and Constitutional rights.
14
Let me get this straight- when a child goes to a dentist and has an anesthesia-related complication, then that is front page worthy in the NYT to call for more oversight and regulation of these types of practices. But when the state of Texas tries to ascertain that clinics that perform abortion- far riskier and complication than pulling a tooth- are held to the same medical standards as those of any another Ambulatory Surgical Center (ASC) in that state, somehow they are limiting access? I actually consider that protecting women's lives! Or do you wish a woman to die in one of those poorly run substandard clinics/
8
It is a woman's choice. Not your choice, my choice, your friends choice, your partners choice, your religious choice, your party's choice, your ego's choice, or any one else's choice but a woman's choice to choose. Whatever decision she makes it is are never taken lightly!
60
Pathetic that the TP/GOP hates women so much that they are perfectly fine with denying women access to reproductive health care; yes, access to an abortion is part of reproductive health. Rich women will continue to get access, but sadly this will be very different for poor women. This is already happening in Texas. We will go the way of back ally abortions, etc. What a hideous Party; it is America's Taliban!
58
Women must vote. They must reject candidates that advocate against them. It's your bodies, women. Time to march it down to your polling place and make your voice heard. Better yet, vote by mail if it's available to you. So much easier for working women. However you choose to vote, please do it. The control of your own body is at stake.
44
Abortion; the right to choose, is becoming another right of the wealthy class in those states like Texas that are busy limiting access. We are returning to the 60's and 70's when women had to travel to New York or other more liberal states to avail themselves of a safe, legal procedure. What a shame. Being neither female of living in one of those conservative enclaves, I can only wonder at the stupidity of these new restrictions based solely on religious beliefs. When does religion trump civil law, and why? I thought this nation was founded on a constitution that ensured the rights of all. When did that change?
33
This entire discussion is so like gun control, but the mirror image.
The majority of Americans are OK with 1st trimester abortions, but the far left does not negotiate, abortions need to be legal up until the day before a scheduled elective repeat c-section at 40 weeks.
The majority of Americans are OK with gun ownership and the strict background checks and waiting periods already in place in California. The far right, which also does not negotiate, wants to be able to buy an anti aircraft gun at a gun show with no record of the sale.
The current leadership's my-way-or-the-highway attitude has not helped. Winning 51% of a vote is not a mandate to fundamentally change life for the other 49%.
The majority of Americans are OK with 1st trimester abortions, but the far left does not negotiate, abortions need to be legal up until the day before a scheduled elective repeat c-section at 40 weeks.
The majority of Americans are OK with gun ownership and the strict background checks and waiting periods already in place in California. The far right, which also does not negotiate, wants to be able to buy an anti aircraft gun at a gun show with no record of the sale.
The current leadership's my-way-or-the-highway attitude has not helped. Winning 51% of a vote is not a mandate to fundamentally change life for the other 49%.
9
If men got pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament. I know you've all heard it before, but it's true.
The GOP is all about keeping women, minorities, and immigrants down.
White, male supremacy rules in GOP.
The GOP is all about keeping women, minorities, and immigrants down.
White, male supremacy rules in GOP.
76
I am proud to live in a country that gives women the right to choose when faced with an unwanted pregnany and has reliable health care alternatives available.
That said, it is not the federal government's role to pay for abortions, nor should the federal government force insurance companies to pay for abortions.
The federal government should not pay organizations to advertise abortions or for activities related to the sale or trade of fetal tissue from abortions
Those activities should and must be born by the mother or father seeking the termination.
No one is too poor to avoid getting pregnant in the first place.
Each individual should pay their own pregnancy costs, whether for extraordinary science to transplant a uterus, to implant an embryo, or to terminate a pregnancy.
There are so many options to avoid an unwanted pregnancy. Each person needs to take personal responsibility for themselves and their reproduction.
Don't want a baby? Then buy a condom. Get on the pill. Better yet, take my father's advice and hold your knees together. It actually works!
That said, it is not the federal government's role to pay for abortions, nor should the federal government force insurance companies to pay for abortions.
The federal government should not pay organizations to advertise abortions or for activities related to the sale or trade of fetal tissue from abortions
Those activities should and must be born by the mother or father seeking the termination.
No one is too poor to avoid getting pregnant in the first place.
Each individual should pay their own pregnancy costs, whether for extraordinary science to transplant a uterus, to implant an embryo, or to terminate a pregnancy.
There are so many options to avoid an unwanted pregnancy. Each person needs to take personal responsibility for themselves and their reproduction.
Don't want a baby? Then buy a condom. Get on the pill. Better yet, take my father's advice and hold your knees together. It actually works!
9
@upset taxpayer
How about a gun show?
Or maybe from that kid down the street who went from oxy to heroin who needs a fis so he'll sell you his AK?
Or from the back of a van where the easy access guns from Virginia have made their way north?
Or from your nice uncle who thinks guns are great, owns 30 or more and just knows that you need one for your 18th birthday. It is your right, all you have to do is be part of a well regulated militia. Oh, wait. PB
How about a gun show?
Or maybe from that kid down the street who went from oxy to heroin who needs a fis so he'll sell you his AK?
Or from the back of a van where the easy access guns from Virginia have made their way north?
Or from your nice uncle who thinks guns are great, owns 30 or more and just knows that you need one for your 18th birthday. It is your right, all you have to do is be part of a well regulated militia. Oh, wait. PB
6
Republicans "pro-life" dont really care about the fetus, if they did they would support all the prenatal services for women without the resources. They do not. These people really want women to have no say in their lives.
54
Why are reproductive rights confused with government payment for those procedures? Allowing individuals to make the individual decision to have an abortion is far different than the govt taking tax payer money to pay for abortions. The majority of the country opposes abortion, why are they forced to pay for something that violates their personal and religious beliefs? This debate is so far off topic now, it is reprehensible and bears no relation to contemporary beliefs or needs.
When Roe v Wade was decided, there was no morning after pill, no Norplant, no non-surgical reproductive alternative, or reversible long term contraceptive. We cling to a now obsolete barbaric practice due to a broken, political process that is perverted by political parties that are absolutely corrupt. Now that we can save premies so young, and can see via ultrasound how quickly the fetus develops into a human, and realize these babies can hear, dream, think, and respond to their parents' voices in the womb, we now know they are humans, with greater abilities than many elderly or diseased humans.
It is time to start again, reflecting on modern medical realities and our understanding of prenatal development. Our abortion practices are alone in the developed world, reflecting those of China, Vietnam, North Korea, and countries that have little regard for human life. Tragic consequence due to a perverted political process.
When Roe v Wade was decided, there was no morning after pill, no Norplant, no non-surgical reproductive alternative, or reversible long term contraceptive. We cling to a now obsolete barbaric practice due to a broken, political process that is perverted by political parties that are absolutely corrupt. Now that we can save premies so young, and can see via ultrasound how quickly the fetus develops into a human, and realize these babies can hear, dream, think, and respond to their parents' voices in the womb, we now know they are humans, with greater abilities than many elderly or diseased humans.
It is time to start again, reflecting on modern medical realities and our understanding of prenatal development. Our abortion practices are alone in the developed world, reflecting those of China, Vietnam, North Korea, and countries that have little regard for human life. Tragic consequence due to a perverted political process.
7
For crying out loud, the Hyde Amendment has specifcally prohibited using taxpayer money to fund abortion for at least 25 years.
12
The abortion debate must be framed as two questions, because abortion itself will never, ever be eradicated no matter how many laws are passed against it. The questions are: 1) Do we want women to have safe abortions, in registered clinics, performed by competent physicians, instead of perhaps dying or being maimed for life by their own hand or by the proverbial "back-alley" abortionist? 2) Do we want to criminalize women for having abortions, creating felons out of women, sometimes in desperate straits, who either cannot or do not want to have a child? Is that who we are or who we have become? I sincerely hope not, because, if so, those who are against abortion are not pro-life, they are merely forced-birthers.
41
What's this we stuff? My body, MY choice.
8
If middle class women were less interested in their fertility treatments and more interested in the life they will be leaving behind for their daughters, we wouldn't be in this mess.
7
The March for Life 2016 is just around the corner (January 22) and each year it only grows larger. Most of those marching in Washington are young people who have seen the devastation of abortion. They realize that it is the taking of innocent human life and that this is a travesty. Thank goodness these young adults have seen the light. They are our hope and promise to save babies from this horrible act of injustice.
13
It is the devastation of religion that we see in the world today. Religion has always backed war. The religious right in the US backed Bush and his wars. So, don't give us your hokum about caring for life.
21
Sometimes I want scream at my party.
Dear Progressives, if you don't want American women to lose their Constitutionally protected right to determine what goes on in her own body, just tie all these antebellum anti-choice laws to gun control legislation.
Mention the AR-15 in all of these regressive laws and no rightist in the land would be allowed to vote yes.
GOP politician owners in the NRA simply would not allow their bought and paid for property to vote yes.
Dear Progressives, if you don't want American women to lose their Constitutionally protected right to determine what goes on in her own body, just tie all these antebellum anti-choice laws to gun control legislation.
Mention the AR-15 in all of these regressive laws and no rightist in the land would be allowed to vote yes.
GOP politician owners in the NRA simply would not allow their bought and paid for property to vote yes.
8
As soon as the subject of abortion is breached, people start jumping in to denounce "liberals and progressives" who "allow" women to do it, thereby revealing the true intent of those who oppose legal abortion: they would stand firmly in their way, just as they do now, and not allow women to make their own choices.
22
it is very amusing to see how the conservatism politician in this great country is wrong about all the main subjects : climate change, adventurous wars in the middle est, Obama care, blindness in the front of the wealthy gap, lost table against the wedding for all. And who are the target of its angry : the poor women who just want be subject of the own body. it is so easy to strike on the head of a defenseless population group. It is sure that a woman who want a abortion represents a greatest danger for society than a semi-automatic weapon.
11
The U.S Constitution states that American citizens have freedom of choice. They also supposedly have freedom from religion, although one wonders about either one of these cherished American rights as of late. Abortion, legally performed, according to U.S. law and the Supreme Court, is legal. Simply put, those opposed to abortion, obviously are not capable of understanding what freedom of choice means. It is their right to oppose abortion; but they should not impose their beliefs on those than don't agree. Same goes for the religious organizations that oppose abortion. Appose it all you want, but don't stand in the way of woman who want an abortion. Keep your beliefs in your homes and in your churches where they belong. Quit imposing your beliefs on those that aren't interested or don't care for them. Try to figure out what freedom of choice means, because obviously, so far you haven't got a clue.
39
The rebarbative troglodytes of the Republican persuasion are displaying male chauvinism at its worst. What is difficult to grasp is why there are any women Republican voters at all. It's a cruel party that wants to deny women, children, the poor--the list goes on--the basic requirements for a dignified, self governing life.
33
What's wrong with wanting to end abortion? This is a grisly act that has already taken over 50 million innocent lives. There are those of us in America that find this behavior atrocious and highly immoral. We value live and see each human being as unique and special. Let's put an end to this horrendous barbaric act. Those of us who are upset must continue voicing our disapproval
And not remain silent.
And not remain silent.
9
Don't want an abortion, KMW? Don't have one. It's YOUR choice.
55
That's fine, and in America, you get to say so. What you don't get to do is use government to shove your religious views on everybody else.
Sorry.
Sorry.
11
If you are truly pro-life then you should be anti-gun due to the 30,000+ deaths annually due to firearms.
14
The republicans have an obsession with female reproductive anatomy is disturbing to say the least. Their compulsive urge to put their nose where it really should not be is an embarrassment for all conservative gentlemen.
Why can't they just have a mistress like many decent , respectable, conservative politicians do all over Europe?
Why can't they just have a mistress like many decent , respectable, conservative politicians do all over Europe?
26
Republicans are born of a female's reproductive anatomy and then spend their political lives attempting to govern where they came from, regardless of the mother's wishes!
7
Don't abort, adopt! A message from a non-aborted human.
10
And here's a message from a wanted child:
This. Is. Not. Your. Call.
This. Is. Not. Your. Call.
22
I would suggest that any restriction on obtaining an abortion that is more restrictive than restrictions on obtaining a gun in that same state should be overturned.
36
As a victim impregnated by her rapist--who now sits in federal prison-- I still shake as I write to explain the feeling of something growing inside me that reminded me of the violence and my calm terror as I though I was submitting to death. Of how I worried as I lay with my arms tied over my head, only about how she would feel knowing I was murdered, and how horrible it would be for her to know that I was killed like that. I can not bear to describe to polite readers the perversity of one particular act this man engaged in.
Anti abortionists may cheer to hear that as a medical matter, impregnated rape victims must carry the embryo inside them for about torturous 8 weeks before an abortion can be performed. So, we are punished more.
Those who profess to love life and who think they are doing God's work by stopping abortion, I ask you this: Experience what I did and tell me what you think then. If you care not for the women you would enslave with the burden of your evangelism, tell me if your devotion to life extends to the life of a child who will be raised by a rape victim who guiltily hates her child--- but is too dutiful to give it up for adoption.
The only good thing that came from my rape was that I donated the embryo to a hospital for medical research. Don't worry. Drop you guns. I didn't sell the body parts--there being none of course in an aborted embryo.
Anti abortionists may cheer to hear that as a medical matter, impregnated rape victims must carry the embryo inside them for about torturous 8 weeks before an abortion can be performed. So, we are punished more.
Those who profess to love life and who think they are doing God's work by stopping abortion, I ask you this: Experience what I did and tell me what you think then. If you care not for the women you would enslave with the burden of your evangelism, tell me if your devotion to life extends to the life of a child who will be raised by a rape victim who guiltily hates her child--- but is too dutiful to give it up for adoption.
The only good thing that came from my rape was that I donated the embryo to a hospital for medical research. Don't worry. Drop you guns. I didn't sell the body parts--there being none of course in an aborted embryo.
88
Thank you for your bravery in telling your story. I and many, many others wish you well in your healing. Your strength is admirable.
9
Evangelists are all to ready to pontificate on what others should do until one of their family is involved, then all bets are off on the way to the abortion clinic.
10
How many laws making it harder to get a gun will pass before the Supreme Court sees them for what they are — part of a tireless, coordinated nationwide assault on the right of Americans to control how they defend themselves and their families?
2
How did we get from overturning Roe v. Wade to the incessant drumbeat of the 2nd Amendment? Is it possible to discuss something besides guns, even if briefly?
8
No one has suggested or legislated to take your guns. Sheeesh.
4
Kind of like the "tireless, coordinated nationwide assault" on gun ownership, isn't it? The only difference, of course, is that one right is guaranteed by the Constitution and the other one isn't (Please note the difference between a constitutional amendment and a Supreme Court decision). Being respectful of other people's constitutional rights helps preserve your rights.
4
Larry: The right to privacy is guaranteed, and that is the basis for Roe v. Wade. A woman has the right to make private decisions regarding her body and her reproductive processes. I remember when there was no such law. I remember when girls with money went to Japan for safe, legal abortions. Girls who did not have money went to back alley midwives, or filthy clinics in Tijuana; they got abortions in unsafe conditions and were often left with sepsis. Sepsis could, and did, result in sterility. I am talking about young girls, just starting out in life, unmarried with a future ahead of them. An unwanted pregnancy could fix their future for decades. A septic abortion could sterilize them so that when they did get married, and wanted a family, they remained sterile. Finally, what right do you have, Larry, to dictate what future a young girl might have? What right do you have to tell any young girl what she can or cannot do with her body? I am old enough to remember the bad days. Shame on anyone who wants to throw young girls back into the '50's where forced pregnancies, forced marriages, and dangerous abortions were the norm. Shame on all of you!!
11
Of course Roe v Wade was decided on the basis of finding that there was a Constitutional right to privacy, and also a Constitutional ban on government's sticking its nose (or whatever) into private lives, but you go right ahead.
By the way, every Supreme Court that's been asked has agreed that lmitatins on gun ownership are perfectly Constiutional. Just so's ya know, what the Court does is to interpret the Constitution.
By the way, every Supreme Court that's been asked has agreed that lmitatins on gun ownership are perfectly Constiutional. Just so's ya know, what the Court does is to interpret the Constitution.
3
There is no, "tireless, coordinated nationwide assault" on gun ownership. None. Their is a desire on the part of most Americans to mitigate mass shootings and the 33,000 gun deaths a year - a pro-life movement for actual. living people, but no one has tried to take YOUR guns away nor have they suggested or legislated any such thing.
16
Let's hope that Judge Posner's approach to judicial review of TRAP laws prevails. If not, sign me up for strapping mifepristone to drones for humanitarian airdrops.
14
Abortion should be a last resort to manage reproductive issues. There are also other medical issues that makes abortions necessary. However, the so-called pro-life movement that is so adamantly opposed to abortion too often is also opposed to all other forms of contraception and family planning services that would preclude pregnancies in the first place; to include frank educational programs. Much of these groups motivation is their religious mythology. So, it goes beyond groups trying to restrict women's control of their own bodies it is also imposition of religious beliefs on others and society as a whole.
41
It is none of your business, John, until YOU are pregnant.
6
Exactly, which is why we need Planned Parenthood which devotes 97% of their efforts to women's health and family planning. Abortions represent 3% of the care they provide and are NOT government funded.
Professional family planning reduces the number of abortions performed!
Professional family planning reduces the number of abortions performed!
6
How come that in recent years even the majority Catholic countries in Europe have made abortion legal and thus much more safe?
In those countries abortions per capita are also rarer, teenage pregnancies a fraction of those in the US, and out-of-wedlock births as well.
Instead of teaching abstinence in biology, schools teach age appropriate birth control.
The US is the only country where one major party and those running for office have to declare to be pro-life, while at the same time still supporting the death penalty, the latter having been abolished by every other advanced nation on the planet.
As others here noted before, there will always be abortions, no matter the law. Our oh-so-Christian lawmakers and a large percentage of their base want to force the women at the bottom of the economic ladder to carry every accidental pregnancy to term, no matter if she can afford another mouth to feed or another child to cloths.
After yet another baby is born into poverty, they are on their own or called moochers should that family need to use food stamps and other means to survive.
In those countries abortions per capita are also rarer, teenage pregnancies a fraction of those in the US, and out-of-wedlock births as well.
Instead of teaching abstinence in biology, schools teach age appropriate birth control.
The US is the only country where one major party and those running for office have to declare to be pro-life, while at the same time still supporting the death penalty, the latter having been abolished by every other advanced nation on the planet.
As others here noted before, there will always be abortions, no matter the law. Our oh-so-Christian lawmakers and a large percentage of their base want to force the women at the bottom of the economic ladder to carry every accidental pregnancy to term, no matter if she can afford another mouth to feed or another child to cloths.
After yet another baby is born into poverty, they are on their own or called moochers should that family need to use food stamps and other means to survive.
31
They also mostly limit abortion to the first trimester, 12 weeks. Sensible limits.
4
Women and minorities are the top no shows at the ballot box, what is up with that?
9
According to the Census Bureau over 80 million voting-eligible citizens (over 18-years-old) did not vote. 215,081,000 were eligible in 2012 but only 132,948,000 bothered to show up at the polls. https://www.census.gov/prod/2014pubs/p20-573.pdf
3
"Women and minorities are the top no shows at the ballot box, what is up with that?"
Someone probably has actual data, but off the top of my head I'd suggest family and work responsibilities, along with exhaustion, resignation and cynicism about the pre-selected "choices" on the ballot whose hearts and minds belong to donors.
Someone probably has actual data, but off the top of my head I'd suggest family and work responsibilities, along with exhaustion, resignation and cynicism about the pre-selected "choices" on the ballot whose hearts and minds belong to donors.
2
Try as I might to wrap my head around any explicable mindset that would prompt legislation of the type described in this editorial, I come up short every time. The only conclusion that adds-up is small, narrow-minded, prejudiced, mean-spirited, political opportunism, and surely that can't be true in our enlightened, exceptional land.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
www.endthemadnessnow.org
26
You're forgetting that, to many, religion is small, narrow-minded, prejudiced, and mean-spirited.
4
It is time to take the gloves off, ladies and gentlemen. It is time to stop "asking" for equality. It is time to stop these PREDATORY attacks on women's rights. It is time for Women - and the men who love them - to DEMAND the Equal Rights Amendment to the United States Constitution which will prevent ANY law being passed that infringes on a woman's inalienable right - given to her by her creator- to do what she wants with her own body. Go see the movies "Suffragette" and "Spotlight" if you haven't already. The first is about women fighting and getting the right to vote in England - and the arrogant men who tried to make it impossible. The second is about the institutionally-approved PREDATORY SEXUAL ABUSE BY PRIESTS - 87 IN BOSTON ALONE - AND THE BISHOPS MOVING THEM FROM PARISH TO PARISH SO THEY COULD SEXUALLY ABUSE OTHER CHILDREN - IN THE NAME OF THEIR GOD. Catholic bishops started the supposed "right to life" movement in the 1960s in retaliation for women being able to control their own bodies through contraception. Do they actually think WE are going to sit by and allow them to take over the rights of women of America - again? NO WE WILL NOT. It is past time for grassroots synergy and action to stop this now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Right_to_Life_Committee
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Right_to_Life_Committee
29
Anti-abortion laws would basically be unenforceable, or very costly to enforce, without infeasible intrusion into women's private lives. And any anti-abortion legislation should be accompanied by legislation mandating the provision of free birth control, to both men and women.
The question that is very hard to get around, at least for me, is that, once fertilized and implanted, an egg is clearly an embryo that, absent interference, will in most cases develop into a normal, healthy baby. So some people believe that in surgically removing or destroying that embryo, one is essentially killing a child. Whatever one's position on "a woman's right to choose", however, we are all responsible, at least in part, for driving some women to abortion, because our wider society still fails to provide the type of support that would allow mothers to continue their schooling or careers without undue interruption or outright punishment or retaliation on the part of employers. In addition, our society now looks down upon stay-at-home parents, as it does upon anyone else without a paying job, save perhaps those retired from one. The Lily Ledbetter Act that protects women only if they have the same employment profile as most men would have; i.e., never having had to take time away from the workforce to care for babies or other family members, simply doesn't go far enough.
The question that is very hard to get around, at least for me, is that, once fertilized and implanted, an egg is clearly an embryo that, absent interference, will in most cases develop into a normal, healthy baby. So some people believe that in surgically removing or destroying that embryo, one is essentially killing a child. Whatever one's position on "a woman's right to choose", however, we are all responsible, at least in part, for driving some women to abortion, because our wider society still fails to provide the type of support that would allow mothers to continue their schooling or careers without undue interruption or outright punishment or retaliation on the part of employers. In addition, our society now looks down upon stay-at-home parents, as it does upon anyone else without a paying job, save perhaps those retired from one. The Lily Ledbetter Act that protects women only if they have the same employment profile as most men would have; i.e., never having had to take time away from the workforce to care for babies or other family members, simply doesn't go far enough.
15
An embryo is a cluster of cells. Until that cluster can live on it's own it is a parasite on a woman's body and a woman has an inalienable right to purge it if she chooses. Or not. It's about choice.
17
Don't get me wrong. I'm pro-choice, but if you need an abortion (excluding rape) in this day and age you are lazy, foolish or just plain dumb. Access to contraception is easy and contraceptives are cheap (even if you have to pay out of pocket).
12
Many women get pregnant while taking the pill or using other contraception, Sue. They have an inalienable right to choose to abort the embryo.
6
That would be rational if all contraceptives worked 100% of the time. If you look up the statistics, none of them do. As for intelligence - I know a physician who was on the Pill, took them daily and still got pregnant. Access to contraception depends on having health insurance or federal assistance to health care, or having the cash to pay for them - and if you know reality, you know that many people are deciding between rent and food money, so no, it's not that easy at all. Not in the REAL world.
6
"Cheap" and "easy" are relative. My "bargain" pills cost $35 a month with insurance. You clearly do not realize it, but that is a lot of money to many people. In addition, the continuing legislation against real sex education leaves many women without accurate information about contraception. Finally, no method is 100% effective even when taken perfectly as directed.
Passing ivory tower judgment is not helpful in this situation.
Passing ivory tower judgment is not helpful in this situation.
8
The abortion debate is stuck in the Dark Ages. Abortion opponents reference non-scriptural religious precedents. Abortion advocates rely on nonsensical philosophical absolutes. Hardly anyone cares the slightest bit about the facts on the ground: the precise developmental stage of the fetus; the precise rights and responsibilities of the pregnant woman. All anyone cares about is being right and making their opponents look stupid and evil. It's disgusting and demonstrates the failure of our civilization to enforce a lower limit on the intelligence and decency of public thought.
3
Opposing beliefs about abortion define an irreconcilable Red State/Blue State culture clash that's not going to be resolved through persuasion, reason or compromise.
Both sides are motivated by unchangeable beliefs. One side believes in a constitutional democracy where freedom of choice is enshrined in a bill of rights that is enforced through judicial review. The other takes its guidance from received religious beliefs where man (and woman) are subservient to God's will.
Red State opponents of abortion won't be satisfied as long women in Blue State America can still obtain legal abortions. Blue State supporters of legalized abortions won't be satisfied as long as Red States deny their women that choice.
We need to realize that the legislative assault on abortion rights in Red State America is a holding action until the day when a Republican-appointed majority on the Supreme Court rules that Roe v. Wade was wrongly decided.
Those who support freedom of choice are being outspent and out organized by the other side, at least in the legislative arena. They either need to get federal appellate decisions striking down TRAP laws or gear up to mount a credible political threat to abortion opponents in Red States.
But how can this happen when Blue State America is already struggling to stay on top of climate change, Black Lives Matter, social justice, asset and income inequality, LGBT equality and other causes that come out of the same divide in world views?
Both sides are motivated by unchangeable beliefs. One side believes in a constitutional democracy where freedom of choice is enshrined in a bill of rights that is enforced through judicial review. The other takes its guidance from received religious beliefs where man (and woman) are subservient to God's will.
Red State opponents of abortion won't be satisfied as long women in Blue State America can still obtain legal abortions. Blue State supporters of legalized abortions won't be satisfied as long as Red States deny their women that choice.
We need to realize that the legislative assault on abortion rights in Red State America is a holding action until the day when a Republican-appointed majority on the Supreme Court rules that Roe v. Wade was wrongly decided.
Those who support freedom of choice are being outspent and out organized by the other side, at least in the legislative arena. They either need to get federal appellate decisions striking down TRAP laws or gear up to mount a credible political threat to abortion opponents in Red States.
But how can this happen when Blue State America is already struggling to stay on top of climate change, Black Lives Matter, social justice, asset and income inequality, LGBT equality and other causes that come out of the same divide in world views?
9
"Both sides are motivated by unchangeable beliefs. One side believes in a constitutional democracy where "
True, that is the right wing view. The left wing does not. The Bill of Rights does not give the power to regulate abortion to the Federal Government, therefore it lies with the states. The left wing does not respect that. They do not also respect the words elsewhere "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness". They do, of course, value some lives, for example, the lives
of mass murderers, so much that they want to prohibit the death penalty.
But they want to allow killing of the most innocent of the innocent.
If they, the left wing would just come out and say "of COURSE this is a horrible contradiction, but we don't care about that, murder of babies does not matter to us, its just that we value women's rights more" than I would not make these long posts. I would allow abortion ... but to allow it and not allow execution of mass murderers makes the Left look like what it is ... hopelessly confused and not to be respected.
True, that is the right wing view. The left wing does not. The Bill of Rights does not give the power to regulate abortion to the Federal Government, therefore it lies with the states. The left wing does not respect that. They do not also respect the words elsewhere "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness". They do, of course, value some lives, for example, the lives
of mass murderers, so much that they want to prohibit the death penalty.
But they want to allow killing of the most innocent of the innocent.
If they, the left wing would just come out and say "of COURSE this is a horrible contradiction, but we don't care about that, murder of babies does not matter to us, its just that we value women's rights more" than I would not make these long posts. I would allow abortion ... but to allow it and not allow execution of mass murderers makes the Left look like what it is ... hopelessly confused and not to be respected.
1
Well ladies, the best way to rest control of your bodies back from these bozos on the right is to get a headache. While you might not be the one in need thousands of your sisters are in need. Just say no to any and all hoochie coochie until the laws recognize that a woman's body is hers to control and not the property of a bunch of right wing yahoo men.
29
Do enlighten all of us "ladies" how "getting a headache" will help young girls raped by parental boyfriends, women attacked by dates or unknown rapists, and so on. I agree with your affirmation of women's rights not to be raped and assaulted by right wing patriarchal misogynists - but your simplistic "solution," even said somewhat in jest, vastly understates the reality of this disaster. The bottom line is that women are being relegated to second class citizens whose rights are superseded by these patriarchal idiots, not to mention blastocytes.
10
Better yet, lean to the left, have every boy temporarily sterilized when they start to masturbate until they are married or 35 years old and willing to accept responsibility for their part in "reproduction".
5
looks like somebodys read Lysistrata
3
Religion
(noun, from Latin, French, Anglo-Norman) /rɪˈlɪdʒən/
The institutionalization of the male ego.
(noun, from Latin, French, Anglo-Norman) /rɪˈlɪdʒən/
The institutionalization of the male ego.
48
And the Republicans claim there is no war on women! I became pro-choice and a liberal on the day that a friend of mine died from an illegal abortion at the age of 19. Her parents were strict fundamentalist Christians and she felt she could not tell them about her pregnancy. I knew her mother and she was correct that her mother would have disowned her. Her boyfriend was in college on scholarship aAnd on top of everything else he was Jewish. Her parents would have had a cow if she had married him and he would have lost his scholarships if he married. -- That was in 1963, just before Roe vs. Wade was implemented in my state.
This experience changed my life when !, too was 19. I will fight for womens' right to chose as long as I live.
My brilliant and beautiful friend died because an operation, which is no more dangerous than a tooth extraction. was illegal
This experience changed my life when !, too was 19. I will fight for womens' right to chose as long as I live.
My brilliant and beautiful friend died because an operation, which is no more dangerous than a tooth extraction. was illegal
60
if they stayed here instead of passing to the other side , the mom have 71 years of life and the baby would be 52. What kind of life here on earth would they have had?
I saved my daughter from abortion. She is now 34. What a wonderful life she has had. My Mom got all the tools to abort me. she started bleeding terribly after using them . Then in the bathroom bleeding she said a pray ( she was Catholic)if God would stop the bleeding- hemoraging- and God did . and she said she dedicated my life to God.
The secular religion age has destroyed so many women's ability to become what they were meant to be
What to do?
I saved my daughter from abortion. She is now 34. What a wonderful life she has had. My Mom got all the tools to abort me. she started bleeding terribly after using them . Then in the bathroom bleeding she said a pray ( she was Catholic)if God would stop the bleeding- hemoraging- and God did . and she said she dedicated my life to God.
The secular religion age has destroyed so many women's ability to become what they were meant to be
What to do?
2
"Reproductive Rights", as you refer to them, have as long as I can remember been a target of the Republican party. But that fact does not mean that I understand the reasons behind the crusade against women. IF the situation were reversed and the targets were male, the subject would have long ago disappeared. I also do not understand why women of EITHER PARTY support losing control of their own bodies through non-voting, or voting in favor of a Republican candidate. An even greater disappointment in my log of life is why our own so-called Supreme Court has given away to the states that power over women. No Governor, of either party, should have the power to end abortion, an act which was long ago approved of by our same Supreme Court, nor should the state legislators have that control over women. The only way the situation will change is if women voters in all states will re-claim those rights. IT IS UP TO THE WOMEN OF AMERICA IN THE VOTING BOOTHS.
36
If you are going to call those who support abortion pro-something, be accurate and refer to them as pro-abortion. Saying pro-choice is misleading in that those innocent unborn babies have no choice in the matter.
Conversely, be accurate and respectful and call those who oppose abortion as pro-lifers.
As for the Texas law, how can anyone object to an abortion clinic and doctor being held to the same standards as any other surgical facility. Abortion is a surgical procedure.
I thought having quality health care for women was a priority on the liberal progressive agenda. Can't have it both ways.
Conversely, be accurate and respectful and call those who oppose abortion as pro-lifers.
As for the Texas law, how can anyone object to an abortion clinic and doctor being held to the same standards as any other surgical facility. Abortion is a surgical procedure.
I thought having quality health care for women was a priority on the liberal progressive agenda. Can't have it both ways.
11
No woman ever has an abortion for a reason that to her is not of great importance, however wrong headed it may seem to any third party. And nobody has the right to stop her. I might, in the unlikely event she asked for my opinion, try to talk her out of it, but to seek to compel her to refrain is the ultimate in disrespect.
5
Nobody is pro-abortion. Get real. They are for choice. They are for you not imposing your religious beliefs on others. They are for people recognizing that what is right for you might not be right for others. It is called empathy.
14
No one is pro-abortion. And many anti-abortion people are also pro-death penalty and against helping low-income and poor children. Pro-life, indeed.
It's clear the having quality health care for women is not a priority on the conservative agenda. We get it. You folks are anti-woman and anti-child, anti-sex. Most Americans, the majority, support keeping abortion legal, safe, and rare, and do not support the endless picking at women's right to choose by making it impossible to get to a clinic. There is no medical necessity for so many of the things imposed on women from the neocons. Waiting periods, ultrasounds, and the idiotic need for wide hallways in abortion clinics? Vasectomies are performed in outpatient medical offices and clinics and they are required to have wide hallways. The hypocrisy of the anti-abortion crowd is remarkable.
It's clear the having quality health care for women is not a priority on the conservative agenda. We get it. You folks are anti-woman and anti-child, anti-sex. Most Americans, the majority, support keeping abortion legal, safe, and rare, and do not support the endless picking at women's right to choose by making it impossible to get to a clinic. There is no medical necessity for so many of the things imposed on women from the neocons. Waiting periods, ultrasounds, and the idiotic need for wide hallways in abortion clinics? Vasectomies are performed in outpatient medical offices and clinics and they are required to have wide hallways. The hypocrisy of the anti-abortion crowd is remarkable.
13
Just two weeks ago Ted "Condom" Cruz offered his opinion, (and I paraphrase):
"My wife and I don't have 17 kids! We only have 2! That's because we use condoms!"
Not only was that too much information, Ted, but you have it wrong: Your wife does not "use" a condom - YOU do.
And forgive me from being just a little bit wary of your successful condom use story, but condoms are notorious for failure. I suspect that, actually, your wife is using some other form of birth control.
Exactly what that is, is none of my business.... just as what I ever used is none of your business.
And, I truly regret that you have made your wife's anatomy any of our business.....
....but then, she's not a poor woman who is being held hostage to the Henry Hyde (that philanderer!) Amendment, now is she?
How lucky she is in all of these matters: she's not a poor woman and the condom never broke.
Now that's luck!
"My wife and I don't have 17 kids! We only have 2! That's because we use condoms!"
Not only was that too much information, Ted, but you have it wrong: Your wife does not "use" a condom - YOU do.
And forgive me from being just a little bit wary of your successful condom use story, but condoms are notorious for failure. I suspect that, actually, your wife is using some other form of birth control.
Exactly what that is, is none of my business.... just as what I ever used is none of your business.
And, I truly regret that you have made your wife's anatomy any of our business.....
....but then, she's not a poor woman who is being held hostage to the Henry Hyde (that philanderer!) Amendment, now is she?
How lucky she is in all of these matters: she's not a poor woman and the condom never broke.
Now that's luck!
65
In the last republican debate, I wish I could have counted how many times Ted Cruz said the word, "kill." He wasn't talking about abortion. He has no problem with killing adults. Just embryos.
4
>
This will continue until these zealots succeed at making abortion totally illegal, then, and only then, will women, fathers, mothers and boyfriends wakeup. Just as long as the well off can get around these obstacles now being set, most don't care, but when it finally effects them....bingo they become enlightened activists.
I believe it was Gloria Steinem that said: 'If Men Could Get Pregnant, Abortion Would Be a Sacrament'. She is 110% correct.
This will continue until these zealots succeed at making abortion totally illegal, then, and only then, will women, fathers, mothers and boyfriends wakeup. Just as long as the well off can get around these obstacles now being set, most don't care, but when it finally effects them....bingo they become enlightened activists.
I believe it was Gloria Steinem that said: 'If Men Could Get Pregnant, Abortion Would Be a Sacrament'. She is 110% correct.
33
Typical Leftist fear mongering. When polled, a staggering percentage of voters do NOT want abortion made illegal....it even wins majorities in bible belt states in the deep south.
What people are fed up with is the Left's demand for any abortion, at any time, and fully funded by the govt. That's why there is pushback and there will continue to be effective pushback until the Left adopts a reasonable policy of safe, legal abortions in the first 20 weeks....and no more.
What people are fed up with is the Left's demand for any abortion, at any time, and fully funded by the govt. That's why there is pushback and there will continue to be effective pushback until the Left adopts a reasonable policy of safe, legal abortions in the first 20 weeks....and no more.
3
Gloria Steinem got it wrong. If men could get pregnant, abortion would be a felony.
The majority of Americans favor keeping Roe v Wade and a woman's right to choose. Your fantasy of what people on the left want is just that: fantasy. Most people on the left agree that abortion is not a happy thing at all, but something that needs to be in the basket of choices and that women, not the government or the churches or men, need to make decisions about their own bodies and their own futures. Women whose pregnancies have gone wrong need access to abortion, sometimes late term. When a fetus is no longer viable and it will kill the mother, women need to be able to get that abortion unfettered by religious zealots' ideas of what's right and what's wrong. Remember the woman in Ireland who needlessly died of sepsis because of the law there? The left wants women to be safe and wants abortion to be legal, safe, and rare.
3
Why aren't the when of this country in an uproar and fighting back? Women didn't win the right to vote by being passive....it was a hard fought win. Why are we so silent? Why aren't our female politicians not making more noise about this legislation? As a collective group, why are we so passive about our rights being taken from us? Wish I could answer my own questions.....
15
I have wondered foe a long time !
2
The backlash started in the 1980s with the Reagan era. Read Susan Faludi's book, "Backlash," from that era. The right wing successfully indoctrinated girls and young women to believe feminism was terrible, instead of what it is (equal opportunity for all people). A generation or two of girls (and boys) came to believe rights for women were somehow evil and bad. It's only now that young women are beginning to wake up again and see the value of feminism and self-determination. It's just sickening we have to have this fight all over again.
8
I'd like to add that sometimes the reason TRAP laws results in lack of access has to do with the doctors-- who are heroes in these states. Doctors, due to unchecked harassment and terrorism, sometimes have to fly in from other states, sneak into clinics, even sleep there. They usually cannot live in the same area. Furthermore, even if they could live there, and wanted to try to obtain hospital access within 30 miles, hospitals in those areas refuse to deal with abortion doctors. Catch 22. Please everyone read THE COMMON SECRET by Susan Wicklund. It is a bit out of date, but keep in mind things have gotten worse not better since she wrote that. Another good book is CROW AFTER ROE..Jessica Mason Pieklo and Robin Marty
http://jessicacouldbepregnant.com/
http://jessicacouldbepregnant.com/
22
Financing & advising much of this is the Roman Catholic hierarchy. When it comes to misogyny, the bishops are hard to beat … For many centuries, they've been peddling & leading luxurious parasitical lives off their doctrines of male superiority.
35
This anti Catholic bigotry is disgusting. If I were to criticize all the Jewish rabbis who are pro abortion, the Times would never print it.
8
Why do liberals continue pushing the ridiculous claim that PP is "the only reproductive-"health" service provider for millions of poor women? What about Obamacare?
7
google it yourself and get your answer...
9
Saw a very good analogy to explain this confusion online. Think of a car. You need car insurance to operate a car. Obamacare, or the ACA, is that insurance. Planned Parenthood is the car. You need operating expenses to keep the car/or medical facility running- oil change, tire rotation, etc. Unfortunately, in this current hostile religious extremist environment, PP needs bulletproof glass and safe rooms.
13
The ACA is not a health service provider. It's an insurance program.
When we say PP is the only reproductive health service provider for millions of poor women, we mean that in many locales PP is the only provider of healthcare reasonably accessible and affordable to poor women. Take it away and those women will have no place to go for pap smears and annual exams. Many men will have no place to go for STD testing and cancer screening. Taking away PP from neighborhoods is a war on poor women and low-income families.
When we say PP is the only reproductive health service provider for millions of poor women, we mean that in many locales PP is the only provider of healthcare reasonably accessible and affordable to poor women. Take it away and those women will have no place to go for pap smears and annual exams. Many men will have no place to go for STD testing and cancer screening. Taking away PP from neighborhoods is a war on poor women and low-income families.
13
I just have one question for any one who is against a women's right to choose to have a legal and safe abortion. When, in the history of the world, has prohibition ever been a viable solution?
14
Soooo.....you are opposed to aggressive gun control then?
1
No, we're pretty much opposed to a) prohibiting guns, b) letting people have whatever bang-bang they decide they want that week.
1
Republicans have never lifted a finger to make it harder for higher class women to have unwanted babies. Think this through and you will see the real reason this is happening.
Only lower class unwanted babies. Why would they do that. And when the babies are born, republicans will vote to make sure they don't receive enough food and no medical care.
Think it through. There is a reason. A very hard reason.
Only lower class unwanted babies. Why would they do that. And when the babies are born, republicans will vote to make sure they don't receive enough food and no medical care.
Think it through. There is a reason. A very hard reason.
44
The 1% needs an underclass to manipulate. Low pay, constant scrambling just to survive, not enough food, shelter, or medicine. Yessiree. Replaces the slavery those nasty liberals got rid of. This is the vision of the right wing.
15
Human fodder for their war machines.
6
Is is prejudiced of me to wonder how many of the "politicians", "legislators", "lawmakers", "governors", "Republicans" and "Supreme Court justices" who are doing all this to women's rights are men?
35
No it is not. I agree , I am tired of men ruling the world and telling women what to do with their lives which includes their bodies. Its the middle ages all over again, control women so men can do whatever ghey want. That is the truth.
6
Its all about controlling women and you can do that through controlling reproduction or access to certain healthcare. But, its now 2015 and too many women are sitting on the sidelines. Look at how few women are going for political offices. If we don't turn that around in the next 30 years, then shame on us.
1
"Undue burden".
"Undue burden" is all in the eye of the beholder.
There's the "undue burden" of a poor woman who, because she wasn't raped by a stranger or her father and can't prove that she will die if the pregnancy continues, that she must be held to that philanderer's rule called the Hyde Amendment, and, no, it turns out it is not REALLY her own body: it belongs to Henry Hyde or Jesse Helms or Antonin Scalia or...
So, there is her "undue burden".
Now let's look at someone else's "undue burden".
Let's look at the "Little Sisters of the Poor".
Their "undue burden" is a little different.
Their "undue burden" is that after the Hobby Lobby ruling, they were required to pick up a pen and write ONE SENTENCE that would notify our government that they would not be including birth control in their health care packages.
And what did they say?
"NO! NEVER! TOO MUCH!! UNDUE BURDEN!!!!!"
Did you get that?
One woman is required to jump 100 hurdles, and then still be forced to bear another human being that she cannot afford - and all this ONLY because she is POOR and can't shell out the bucks, for remember: ABORTION IS LEGAL, but only if you have M-O-N-E-Y!!! Women of means have abortions all the time.... but, be POOR and the entire world will demand the right to stick their nose up her ladyparts... and the other group only has to lift up a pen - but even that is an "undue burden"!
The lesson is this: It is better to be a "Little Sister Of the Poor", than to actually BE POOR.
"Undue burden" is all in the eye of the beholder.
There's the "undue burden" of a poor woman who, because she wasn't raped by a stranger or her father and can't prove that she will die if the pregnancy continues, that she must be held to that philanderer's rule called the Hyde Amendment, and, no, it turns out it is not REALLY her own body: it belongs to Henry Hyde or Jesse Helms or Antonin Scalia or...
So, there is her "undue burden".
Now let's look at someone else's "undue burden".
Let's look at the "Little Sisters of the Poor".
Their "undue burden" is a little different.
Their "undue burden" is that after the Hobby Lobby ruling, they were required to pick up a pen and write ONE SENTENCE that would notify our government that they would not be including birth control in their health care packages.
And what did they say?
"NO! NEVER! TOO MUCH!! UNDUE BURDEN!!!!!"
Did you get that?
One woman is required to jump 100 hurdles, and then still be forced to bear another human being that she cannot afford - and all this ONLY because she is POOR and can't shell out the bucks, for remember: ABORTION IS LEGAL, but only if you have M-O-N-E-Y!!! Women of means have abortions all the time.... but, be POOR and the entire world will demand the right to stick their nose up her ladyparts... and the other group only has to lift up a pen - but even that is an "undue burden"!
The lesson is this: It is better to be a "Little Sister Of the Poor", than to actually BE POOR.
72
When it comes time to start leaving the unwanted babies in baskets somewhere, let's make it the steps of state houses and Congress, the hallways of the courts.
7
Paraphrasing Doc Holiday, their hypocrisy knows no bounds. All of this drivel of fetuses being 'the unborn' and their great concern for 'the babies' is belied by their attitude toward those babies when they hit the ground. Then, per Republican dogma, they are on their own. No W.I.C., no Medicaid, no maternal leave, no Obamacare, no to any kind of governmental assistance. And further hypocrisy, daddies little rich girl always has access to abortion, even in towns in East Texas where there is always a local OB/GYN friend from the country club available to perform a 'D&C' on teenage girls. It's all about punishing women for the audacity of having sex with someone other than the man demanding they be forced to have a child and then live in poverty.
49
While I support women in every state, I must say that when only 33% (around there?) vote in elections like Texas it tells me that the women of Texas do not really care that their rights are going to disappear (my heart goes out to the women who do care and did vote). We must all VOTE, in every election, regardless of the inconvenience - far to much is at stake.
25
Not everyone fits neatly into pro-life or pro-choice. Many pro-choice voters favor modest caveats to abortion on demand, such as restrictions on late-term abortions of viable fetuses and parental notification. Likewise, not all pro-life voters are opposed to contraception. Unfortunately this issue gets hijacked by people with extreme, uncompromising positions, and the Far Right is simply better funded and organized, resulting in restrictive laws that increasingly make all abortions more difficult to obtain by women who've made the choice to end their pregnancies.
11
I can't imagine why republicans support the right of a rapist to choose the mother of his child. It's barbaric.
54
Tell me again how foisting one's moral and religious values on others differs from those extremist views of other world religions.
68
Why in 2015 are men making health decisions for women and their doctors?
25
This is part of the Republican war on women and if you had a rational Supreme Court majority these restrictions would be struck down in an instant.
23
The use of the term "reproductive rights" instead of "abortion rights" is misleading political spin.
7
Abotion politics threatens to abort the most important liberty in the USA: freedom from religion, the preposterous delusions of tyrants who claim to know what God thinks about human affairs.
32
Yes, Bolger, you are right, couples who engage in feel good sex are exercising their right to freedom from religion, because if the couples actually had some kind of religious belief system upon which to build a moral framework for their lives, than besides the immediate physical gratification of hedonism, then they would not need so-called "reproductive rights" to avoid the consequences of their irresponsibility.
5
@Southern Boy. You just proved Steve's point with your moralizing post. You don't like people having sex. You are so uninformed about why women need abortions. No small number of women needing abortions are married. It's not only a single-woman problem. And most 2nd and 3rd trimester abortions (which are few, by the way) are about a pregnancy gone wrong or danger to the mother's life. First trimester abortions may be necessary to allow women to continue to work and support their existing families. And since so many men just walk away from a pregnant girlfriend or fiancée, what do you propose to do about the men? We never, ever hear an answer to that.
13
I see. Some pretty strong moralizing there, Southern Boy. And just how is it that your moral structure holds the impregnating male responsible for his feel-good actions?
4
“Pro-lifers" argue that the fetus is a person with “rights." Yet arguing that the fetus is a person with rights is, philosophically speaking, fraught with problems. The right to life of a fetus is oftentimes in conflict with the right to life of the mother. And since the fetus will die if removed from the mother's uterus, it has no right to liberty. As to pursuit of happiness, a fetus doesn’t have this capacity.
I am adamantly pro-choice simply because the idea of the state compelling a woman to do anything with her body against her will is an abomination. Yet there is a real abortion debate to be had—not about rights, but obligations. The real abortion debate is about the moral obligation of women toward fetuses. That is a far more complex debate that would, in all likelihood, lead to fewer abortions.
I am adamantly pro-choice simply because the idea of the state compelling a woman to do anything with her body against her will is an abomination. Yet there is a real abortion debate to be had—not about rights, but obligations. The real abortion debate is about the moral obligation of women toward fetuses. That is a far more complex debate that would, in all likelihood, lead to fewer abortions.
14
It's also puzzling why the pro-lifers have no objections to the totally unregulated for-profit fertility clinics which are estimated to be storing some 600,000 frozen embryos for couples who cannot conceive for whatever reason. In order to increase the odds of a pregnancy the clinics may also "transfer" multiple embryos.
It often takes 10 or more implants to achieve a single pregnancy. Will the pro lifers step up their crusade to make all of the "leftover" frozen embryos into God's little miracles or do they accept that in order to produce one pregnancy it is necessary to destroy dozens?
It often takes 10 or more implants to achieve a single pregnancy. Will the pro lifers step up their crusade to make all of the "leftover" frozen embryos into God's little miracles or do they accept that in order to produce one pregnancy it is necessary to destroy dozens?
11
You are exactly correct in calling abortion a moral debate. But, this is a debate the woman having the abortion will have with herself, her partner, her family and anyone else SHE chooses. It is not a debate to be had in the public space. This is a deeply personal and wrenching decision that the public is not invited into.
8
Well said!
3
As strange it can be to a humanist, religious lawmakers really think they own women body and mind.
24
Actually, in some religions, women are considered mentally inferior and it takes two to give equal testimony against one man. Why, even the Catholic Church debated once whether or not they even had "souls". Sorry, I can't remember how that one turned out...
10
Women must have the right to control whether they live or die. Women will get beaten if they can't get an abortion.
7
If indeed the states have passed 57 new laws that constrain women's right to abortions, apparently that's because the citizens in those states support 57 new laws that constrain women's right to abortions.
I think that's called "democracy."
Isn't democracy "what America's all about?"
I think that's called "democracy."
Isn't democracy "what America's all about?"
21
The danger of democracy is that it can become tyranny. Jefferson warned about that. There was a time when a majority of the country thought blacks should be enslaved and women shouldn't vote. I suppose that was democracy too.
Sometimes people refer to the expansion of rights as "liberal democracy," which is what we should all aspire to for our country.
Sometimes people refer to the expansion of rights as "liberal democracy," which is what we should all aspire to for our country.
15
Perhaps you should review what democracy in America means. The rights of the majority are constrained by the rights of an individual in America. Try this: the essential elements of democracy: separation of powers, basic civil rights / human rights, religious liberty and separation of church and state. Contrast that with mob rule or lynch law.
8
no, its not
3
"How many laws making it harder to get an abortion will pass before the Supreme Court sees them for what they are"
Oh, dear, editors! Surely you know that the fab five of the supremes see those laws for exactly what they are, and they approve! They, too, believe women should be subordinate - barefoot and pregnant is just fine with them.
Oh, dear, editors! Surely you know that the fab five of the supremes see those laws for exactly what they are, and they approve! They, too, believe women should be subordinate - barefoot and pregnant is just fine with them.
13
This is not about abortion. This is about contraception and women's roles in society. This is about the religious right trying to impose their views: women at home, submissive to men, on society in general. Women should be very concerned, and vote.
19
The reproductive rights rollback is without doubt happening in states where the GOP has won by unfairly targeting Democratic leaning voters, denying them their vote. I do not believe any of these legislatures are legal.
14
Right. Its been a very real effort in Florida. Its not working though. Thankfully there are still enough intellectuals and free thinking men and women who realize this effort for what it truly is: denying the right to vote to poor, underserved individuals so the conservatives can control. In essence the weeding out of poor people who have poor kids because of a lack of a safety net, because they are seen to be inferior. Just like what Hitler did and every other demagogue in history.
6
Women are more than 50% of the population, they can control the outcome but too many fail to vote or live in heavily gerrymandered districts. Until we are willing to change the outcome are very right to choice is diminished.
Unfortunately, the GOP only pushes the rights of the Religious Right, no better than Sharia law.
Unfortunately, the GOP only pushes the rights of the Religious Right, no better than Sharia law.
15
What this elite Editorial Board fails to understand is that the right to life trumps reproductive rights.
The "Rollback" we need goes all the way back to 1973, when the shoddy biology of Justice Blackmun fuzzied up the words human and viable. Barring a miscarriage every human fetus is human and viable....until, sadly, a mother proclaims it's not human, not wanted and the it becomes non-viable.
Whether you want to hear this or not, this human fetus is cut, torn and ripped from the womb, and in the ensuing batlle of 42 years since Roe, over 50,000,000 humankind have been killed.
How this tragic act of destroying our own humankind gets confused with "reproductive rights" beggars imagination and understanding.
All the well-chosen words and phrases and liberal logic in the world cannot hide the horror of abortion. Ever.
The "Rollback" we need goes all the way back to 1973, when the shoddy biology of Justice Blackmun fuzzied up the words human and viable. Barring a miscarriage every human fetus is human and viable....until, sadly, a mother proclaims it's not human, not wanted and the it becomes non-viable.
Whether you want to hear this or not, this human fetus is cut, torn and ripped from the womb, and in the ensuing batlle of 42 years since Roe, over 50,000,000 humankind have been killed.
How this tragic act of destroying our own humankind gets confused with "reproductive rights" beggars imagination and understanding.
All the well-chosen words and phrases and liberal logic in the world cannot hide the horror of abortion. Ever.
5
New flash! Not everyone believes that a fetus in the first trimester is a full-fledged human being! You are free to believe that, but you are not free to impose that belief on others. Ever.
13
What you fail to understand is that a fetus that hasn't gone beyond a certain point in development isn't viable outside the womb--that's what "viable" means in this context, which you've missed completely.
Your description of abortion is no different than a description of other medical procedures that involve cutting. I could make an appendectomy sound just as gruesome.
Your description of abortion is no different than a description of other medical procedures that involve cutting. I could make an appendectomy sound just as gruesome.
7
Peter, you are mistakenly confusing faith with fact. Belief has to do with faith. Fact, here, has to do with Biology 101: The human fetus can be no other than a human being. Period.
If you think not, find for us please that magic moment of humanity, because destroying it a split second after humanity happens is murder, sir.
It's not a matter of belief, it's a matter of sceintifc conclusion, based on the premises of accepted biology. Read it again.
If you think not, find for us please that magic moment of humanity, because destroying it a split second after humanity happens is murder, sir.
It's not a matter of belief, it's a matter of sceintifc conclusion, based on the premises of accepted biology. Read it again.
3
Thank you so much NYTimes. This is so important. What is happening to Planned Parenthood is a travesty and reflects a mindset that has taken over the Republican party. Women who live in Republican dominated states across this country are not quite as free as the rest of us, and the details are shocking. The obsession with women's reproductive rights many times is influenced by backward, radicalized ideology (inspired by Christian fundamentalism-- sometimes extremist Christian sects). There is little awareness of how this actually impacts women in these regions. Those of us lucky enough to live in "free" states, or who have the means to travel to a "freer" state if we need to-- where women's rights are taken seriously-- don't understand what it is like for working women, poor women, who live in the South and some parts of the mid west-- where women are not quite as free as we are. My site addresses this.
http://jessicacouldbepregnant.com/
http://jessicacouldbepregnant.com/
13
That nine unelected justices can do a better job of reflecting what America, in aggregate, favors than thousands of elected politicians in Washington or state capitols is a very sad indictment of American politics. Unfortunately, we are reliant on the Supreme Court to do what we the voters seem unable to accomplish.
3
Dear Enlightened Liberal: Start with civility. Federal support for Planned Parenthood is Federal support for killing babies in the view of a sizable % of your fellow countrymen. But you are OK with the government forcing these people to kill babies. After all, you're in favor of abortion and don't consider it killing babies.
The incivility of the Enlightened Liberal is best demonstrated by this issue. It's failure to force Planned Parenthood to divest itself from all its abortion apparatus. Making them form a separate entity to serve the abortion needs of women. Any respect for the viewpoint that abortion is considered murder by some is totally absent. An incivility widely held by all those Enlightened Liberals.
So those that consider it murder go after the organization and the organization dances on a head of a pin. And the Enlightened Liberal stands back and whines.
The incivility of the Enlightened Liberal is best demonstrated by this issue. It's failure to force Planned Parenthood to divest itself from all its abortion apparatus. Making them form a separate entity to serve the abortion needs of women. Any respect for the viewpoint that abortion is considered murder by some is totally absent. An incivility widely held by all those Enlightened Liberals.
So those that consider it murder go after the organization and the organization dances on a head of a pin. And the Enlightened Liberal stands back and whines.
3
"Federal support for Planned Parenthood is Federal support for killing babies in the view of a sizable % of your fellow countrymen." But you, and these people are simply wrong. No Federal funding for Planned Parenthood goes to subsidize abortions. Period. Cutting funding for PP means cutting funding for all other health services they provide, services that *decrease* abortions. Your thinking, along with that of a sizable % of your compatriots, is divorced from reality. It makes you feel good, but it's completely muddled.
18
What you are asking for isn't civility but a refusal to support your forced-childbirth position be imposed on people who don't support it. No one if forcing such people to have abortions but they want to force people to carry a pregnancy to term.
Forming a separate entity isn't about civility either but is an attempt to stop reproductive choice through the back door by making reproductive health practices and choices less efficient.
Forming a separate entity isn't about civility either but is an attempt to stop reproductive choice through the back door by making reproductive health practices and choices less efficient.
6
It's all about rights and responsibilities. People have the right to have sex whenever they want but should also take the responsibility if they conceive a child. Liberals like rights but hate responsibilities. In my opinion it's never ok to kill a child, even if it is still in the womb.
2
Choosing to go through an abortion is taking responsibility; it is making one's own decision on whether to carry a child to term, a responsibility that forced birthers would take away from them.
12
Well, Brian, it's good you admit it's your opinion. And since you don't want to kill a child in your womb, then you shouldn't. Oh, you don't have a womb? It's a bit irresponsible of you to want a black and white answer to complex situations involving pregnancies you will never have. But then, why would I be surprised when conservatives like rights but hate responsibilities. Just look at what they advocate about guns!
8
Right to an abortion is an outlier. Most constitutional rights benefit minorities, even gun owners are a minority, but women are a huge minority in America. Men can ask, why if control of their bodies is so important to women, are state after state able to pass legislation restricting abortion when women are a majority in their state?
The remedy is not in the Supreme Court, but in the key value of America, democracy. Women need to organize and stop this assault on their constitutional rights by doing what the NRA does, lobby and target legislators who pass these anti-abortion laws. As with the Supreme Court decision on gay marriage, be careful what you wish for: Roe v. Wade was in the past millenium, but the fight is just heating up.
The remedy is not in the Supreme Court, but in the key value of America, democracy. Women need to organize and stop this assault on their constitutional rights by doing what the NRA does, lobby and target legislators who pass these anti-abortion laws. As with the Supreme Court decision on gay marriage, be careful what you wish for: Roe v. Wade was in the past millenium, but the fight is just heating up.
3
Terry: Women are NOT a 'minority'. We are the MAJORITY in this country.
7
Numbers are startling. It's not only right-to-choose under attack. Women's bodies have become political fodder.
At least 4 members of the Supreme Court find no need to be true to stare decisis (a fundamental concept of our legal system that states a court generally should follow earlier controlling decisions) and would, if they were legislators, be among the strongest proponents of TRAP laws.
At least 4 members of the Supreme Court find no need to be true to stare decisis (a fundamental concept of our legal system that states a court generally should follow earlier controlling decisions) and would, if they were legislators, be among the strongest proponents of TRAP laws.
7
My body is mine. It does not belong to any other person, nor to any religion (all evil), any political party, any group whatsoever. I have about 10 years left on my life. If I have to kill to safeguard my rights to my body, I will do so. No one is making me a slave or some type of sub-human. Be warned.
18
Melda, You folk in Maine sure are feisty! I stand at your side. I figure I only have 5 at the most, so we best be quick, but let's start with getting LaPage voted out or put in jail, something simpler. I can't believe that that man is ruining my home state that I lived in for 28 years! But after that? Let's lock arms against slavery of all kinds, in all places! A worthy way to go out!
Your body IS yours!
Your body IS yours!
5
So called "reproductive rights" are simply the right for women (and men) who have feel good sex to terminate children created as a result of their irresponsible behavior.
6
How many men have been burdened with having an abortion lately? They are as responsible for having "feel good" sex as a woman but can walk away free. Are you telling me that you only have sex to reproduce and not because it "feels good"? Sorry, I don't believe that.
9
Oh please...you are aware that women get raped and that contraception sometimes fails? Quit living in la-la land.
10
"arbitrary religious moral standards with which they themselves are not burdened"
Religious Conservatives are less likely to have sex outside of marriage, and more likely to have Children, than other groups. Exactly which standard are they not being 'burdened' with?
Anyone who thinks that every woman who will go to a planned parenthood clinic to kill her child would try the same thing in a hotel room or back alley is a fool. Ending on-demand abortions that lack any medical justification will save lives. End of story.
Religious Conservatives are less likely to have sex outside of marriage, and more likely to have Children, than other groups. Exactly which standard are they not being 'burdened' with?
Anyone who thinks that every woman who will go to a planned parenthood clinic to kill her child would try the same thing in a hotel room or back alley is a fool. Ending on-demand abortions that lack any medical justification will save lives. End of story.
3
Another male rant, inaccurate, as usual. When will men leave the well-being of women's bodies to women?!
Abortion is still legal, period. Why not more pecking away at the second amendment with some sensible gun laws? Oh, I forgot. The guys don't want that. Killing men, women and children outside the womb is okay....
Abortion is still legal, period. Why not more pecking away at the second amendment with some sensible gun laws? Oh, I forgot. The guys don't want that. Killing men, women and children outside the womb is okay....
15
Hummm... I'm not sure that I agree with your statement that "Religious Conservatives are less likely to have sex outside of marriage...".
It's been my understanding that the more 'conservative' a state is, the higher its divorce rate and infidelity rate is.
For example, let's take Henry Hyde, the author of the "Hyde Amendment" that forbids money to be used by poor women for abortion. You can google him: He was a world-class philanderer and his focus was the 'control' of women, not the 'use' of public funds. He was utterly open in that goal.
Now, in my book, hypocrisy is no legal defense.
The man just hated poor women.
End of story.
It's been my understanding that the more 'conservative' a state is, the higher its divorce rate and infidelity rate is.
For example, let's take Henry Hyde, the author of the "Hyde Amendment" that forbids money to be used by poor women for abortion. You can google him: He was a world-class philanderer and his focus was the 'control' of women, not the 'use' of public funds. He was utterly open in that goal.
Now, in my book, hypocrisy is no legal defense.
The man just hated poor women.
End of story.
9
Perhaps these Republicans think that by denying reproductive rights to poor and women of color, the birthrate of those women will drop precipitously thereby reversing the course of the country where whites are fast becoming the "minority". Fewer white women will be able to terminate their pregnancies therefore securing the dominance of the white race in the US of A.
Just a guess...
Just a guess...
4
Why would anyone who opposes abortion want to
Shut down Planned Parenthood, an organization that
Provides birth control thereby reducing the chances of
Pregnancy? It defies logic and proves that the issue is not abortion. The issue is controlling women.
Why is the question not asked of republicans?
Shut down Planned Parenthood, an organization that
Provides birth control thereby reducing the chances of
Pregnancy? It defies logic and proves that the issue is not abortion. The issue is controlling women.
Why is the question not asked of republicans?
152
Doesn't a pharmacy provide birth control? Is that really why we need PP? For birth control? Please! Btw, Rs are the ones who want to allow the pill to be over-the-counter (and thus ubitiquis) but D politicians refuse. Who's limiting access now?
1
I have never met a Republican, female or male, that wanted to restrict women's access to contraceptives. Female Republicans want them for the obvious reason. Male Republicans want them available , too, for what is also an obvious reason. There is no "Republican war on women," except in the minds of people who don't really stop to think about it.
Much of the anti-abortion, anti-contraception movement is motivated by a religious mythology that believes sex between consenting adults is sinful and pregnancy is God's punishment for having sex. So, they are numb to any proposal about comprehensive family planning services.
8
President Obama pointed out that the GOP is unique in denying climate change
Well, compared to other civilized nations, they are unique in denying women choice as well.
I am sure the list goes on and on about their regressive policies.
And when exactly will this resonate with the American electorate?
Well, compared to other civilized nations, they are unique in denying women choice as well.
I am sure the list goes on and on about their regressive policies.
And when exactly will this resonate with the American electorate?
10
Religious absolutism is not an appropriate requirement for public health issues any more than absolute pacifism is appropriate for American foreign policy. It is not reasonable.
America has 3rd world maternal mortality levels. Fanaticism is not an appropriate response to real life issues, as we can see with the escalated rhetoric that is fueling violence towards clinics. Appeasing religious purists/accepting religious interpretation in medicine is not appropriate in a secular, pluralistic country. Religious black and white thinking is not appropriate here.
It is not reasonable to require a young victim of incest or a victim of a violent crime like rape to carry a criminal's genetics into a full term pregnancy. Most Americans do NOT support the absolutist views of the folks who feel that a fertilized egg, no matter how conceived, should be brought to a full term pregnancy. Views like this are minority views, no matter how dearly held.
It is not reasonable to require public policy and women's health care in particular reflect the particular and peculiar views of any group- religious adherents often have fundamentalist belief systems that turn out to be Requirements for Other People. That is an inversion of spiritual values, no matter how purist the lingo.
There needs to be a clear separation AGAIN in all health care policy, including women's health care for the good of Americans who do not wish to have religious absolutists dictate public health policy.
America has 3rd world maternal mortality levels. Fanaticism is not an appropriate response to real life issues, as we can see with the escalated rhetoric that is fueling violence towards clinics. Appeasing religious purists/accepting religious interpretation in medicine is not appropriate in a secular, pluralistic country. Religious black and white thinking is not appropriate here.
It is not reasonable to require a young victim of incest or a victim of a violent crime like rape to carry a criminal's genetics into a full term pregnancy. Most Americans do NOT support the absolutist views of the folks who feel that a fertilized egg, no matter how conceived, should be brought to a full term pregnancy. Views like this are minority views, no matter how dearly held.
It is not reasonable to require public policy and women's health care in particular reflect the particular and peculiar views of any group- religious adherents often have fundamentalist belief systems that turn out to be Requirements for Other People. That is an inversion of spiritual values, no matter how purist the lingo.
There needs to be a clear separation AGAIN in all health care policy, including women's health care for the good of Americans who do not wish to have religious absolutists dictate public health policy.
8
In our Federal system of government, the majority of the States, but not all, would allow abortion as a regulated medical procedure today. However, in 1973 with Roe v. Wade and later in 1992 with Planned Parenthood of Southeastern Pennsylvania v. Casey, the Supreme Court usurped the State legislative process. The continuing dispute over abortion, and the activities of abortion providers, is a result of the entirely unnecessary involvement of the Supreme Court, using the 14th Amendment to impose the standards of the more liberal states on the rest of the country. The Supreme Court defined a "privacy right" where none existed. I doing so the "learned justices" became just one more set of players in the highly partisan politics of the present day.
4
You think that SCOTUS made up "privacy rights?" So you think it should be legal and constitutional for me to use available software tools to find out your full name, the names of your family members, your address and phone number, your family income, where you shop, what church you go to, what books you buy, and what political candidates you have donated to? And then post all that online?
3
The only effective way to reduce abortions is by reducing demand.
The nations with the lowest abortion rates do not criminalize abortion. In fact, the global public health consensus today is that criminalization of abortion is a failed policy for reducing abortions: It only drives abortion underground and makes it unsafe.
In Latin America, recent laws criminalizing abortion have made a mess of prenatal care, driving up maternal and infant death. A substantial number of pregnancies end in natural miscarriage. (If God's so opposed to abortion, how come He's the world's biggest abortionist?) Abortion criminalization laws mean women in danger of miscarriage are shunned by medical professionals for fear of criminal prosecution. In countries where the defense has a burden to disprove charges poor women are sentenced to lengthy prison sentences because of natural miscarriages.
History offers no more repugnant spectacle than people indulging in a frenzied orgy of sadism under a misguided claim to self righteousness.
The "Pro-life" movement isn't pro-life, pushing cruel failed policies under that fatuous claim of championing someone else's fetus. Today's so-called "Pro-life" movement will go down in history with the Salem witch trials and Lynch mobs.
.
The nations with the lowest abortion rates do not criminalize abortion. In fact, the global public health consensus today is that criminalization of abortion is a failed policy for reducing abortions: It only drives abortion underground and makes it unsafe.
In Latin America, recent laws criminalizing abortion have made a mess of prenatal care, driving up maternal and infant death. A substantial number of pregnancies end in natural miscarriage. (If God's so opposed to abortion, how come He's the world's biggest abortionist?) Abortion criminalization laws mean women in danger of miscarriage are shunned by medical professionals for fear of criminal prosecution. In countries where the defense has a burden to disprove charges poor women are sentenced to lengthy prison sentences because of natural miscarriages.
History offers no more repugnant spectacle than people indulging in a frenzied orgy of sadism under a misguided claim to self righteousness.
The "Pro-life" movement isn't pro-life, pushing cruel failed policies under that fatuous claim of championing someone else's fetus. Today's so-called "Pro-life" movement will go down in history with the Salem witch trials and Lynch mobs.
.
12
The single greatest obfuscation here is that one side sees any abortion as killing a human, and the other side does not. It is on this point that the battle must be fought, and the first engagement needs to be a no compromise assertion that prior to viability, a fetus is simply another organ in a woman's body, and as such is her responsibility. Thus, fetal tissue donation is no different from any other organ donation, and abortion no different than excision of any other body part. After viability is a different question, but putting to rest the "personhood at fertilization" assertion needs to be done first.
8
Republican obstructionism to a law providing assistance to women seeking abortion, religiously based in a country with clear separation, supposedly, between state and religion, is an abuse, and must be stopped. We are waiting for the Supreme Court to do the right thing, stop treating women as children in need of counseling and reprimand. Incidentally, no one in their right mind, wants to have an abortion if it can be avoided. And most are, thanks to effective birth control measures. But not all seem preventable, and we, guys, are active co-participants in its happening. We men ought to stop being hypocrites, let women decide what's best for them. So far, we are accusing women of what we are guilty of, their downfall. Enough already.
8
A wise friend once said it seems as though every species exhausts the resources available to it. The depressing numbers in this editorial suggests that humans may not be an exception. The only difference is that we seem to invoke religion to support our instincts. We have no trouble regulating fish, deer, moose, bears, but balk at letting women regulate themselves.
4
These phobic, over zealous, crusaders for anti abortion laws need to be constantly reminded that this country has always had a concept of freedom of choice. They seem to have forgotten this. The various Christian fundamentalists and out of control religious entities and bible thumpers also need to get out of the way of this subject, and ever more so, get out of government all together. And why is it, basically, always a bunch of men telling women what to do with their bodies?
13
Shouldn't the goal be for ALL parenthood to be planned? To truly reduce the rate of abortion in this country, women's access to reproductive healthcare and education should be expanded, not denied. Evidence shows that comprehensive sex education and access to affordable birth control works to reduce abortion rates and poverty.
The Texas legislature on the otherhand, has worked tirelessly to deny women and young adults the information and access they need. As a result, Texas has the second highest rate of repeat teen pregnancy in the nation.
The reality is that people have sex and women get pregnant. What would be great to see, is if every CVS/Rite Aid had a mini clinic dedicated to women's reproductive healthcare. We could remove the stigma of this being a "low income" issue, and normalize the conversation.
The Texas legislature on the otherhand, has worked tirelessly to deny women and young adults the information and access they need. As a result, Texas has the second highest rate of repeat teen pregnancy in the nation.
The reality is that people have sex and women get pregnant. What would be great to see, is if every CVS/Rite Aid had a mini clinic dedicated to women's reproductive healthcare. We could remove the stigma of this being a "low income" issue, and normalize the conversation.
13
Since when have Republicans been interested in reality? The goal should be to reduce unplanned pregnancies, or at least unwanted pregnancies to zero by education and access to birth control. But that isn't the real issue for Republicans. It's sex. Only men should have sex, or any say in it, and what happens to women due to men's choices about sex is the punishment women should endure as the object of men's sexual desire (which, btw, men are embarrassed about). That's the Republican reality. I do like your idea about local pharmacies becoming local clinics. Maybe PP could combine with CVS/Right Aid/Walgreens, and the like.
2
With a majority of state legislatures and executive mansions along with both houses of the U.S. Congress under Republican control this assault on female sexual, reproductive and health choice should be expected. Moreover, a majority of Supreme Court justices are conservative Republicans and Roman Catholics. Republicans are opposed to big government and sectarian interference in individual personal secular matters except when it comes to females. Since we live in a limited power divided democratic republic we can not blame divinely selected royals nor gun wielding tyrants for the efforts to rollback female reproductive rights.
4
I spent a year fighting over 80 bills in the Michigan legislature that were chipping away at reproductive rights. These included legislation that required fetal burial, as an example. While the young women are absorbed in conversations about trigger warnings, we old ladies were down at the capitol fighting for their rights. Until the young women figure out how much they are losing, this trend will continue on the state level.
19
American women have supported these restrictions on reproductive rights in every election cycle. Apparently, keeping women & their unwanted or unaffordable children living in poverty is the goal, because the fathers often skip out on their responsibilities.
5
It is getting worse by the day. In Ohio this week a female Republican, yes a woman- a disgrace to her gender- proposed a bill to make it mandatory for women to formally bury the fetus from an abortion or miscarriage. They would need to sign a paper giving instructions and pay for the added costs. This is insane. It is another step to Personhood bills - which states life begins at conception. Then that fetus would have more rights than the host body- or woman. Really at that point the woman is essentially an incubator in the eyes of the government. This is extreme Christian values- or Christian Sharia Law being imposed on the rest of the country. Newsflash- we aren't are Christians. Our government isn't "Christian". If a woman can't prove a miscarriage was natural- she could be thrown in jail for murder. That is what is done in countries where abortion is illegal. Just what we need more jails! People- if this appalls you- then please make sure you vote Democrat this November.
20
I wonder, does the state of Ohio force a relative to bury the body of a homeless individual? Or, is the unborn fetus more of a person than an actual person?
5
Does the father have to sign that paper too? Does the father also have to participate in burial? What if the woman's religion doesn't use burial? Mine uses charnel grounds and sky burial, which are prohibited in the US. And if the fetus is a person, then doesn't the fetus get to choose which form of disposal...burial, cremation, or other approaches? And how will that fetus-person decide that? Shouldn't the fetus-person be responsible for the cost?
It's so clear this issue is going over the cliff. These so-called Christians are terrorists and tyrants. Where are the real Christians and why aren't they stepping up?
It's so clear this issue is going over the cliff. These so-called Christians are terrorists and tyrants. Where are the real Christians and why aren't they stepping up?
4
Good that this was spelled out for those not paying attention. Ds have to do a better job at showing the consequences for not turning out in state and local elections. Rs have gained in every election, non-Presidential years. That has consequences.
6
Well Gee somehow states doing what their citizens demand to restrict what many consider murder is cause for alarm? Now personally I have no issue with abortions, but others disagree. Reasonable restrictions are probably good since I understand some females regret their decision later. Not a big deal espcially when we have so many important issues to address.
1
"Not a big deal espcially when we have so many important issues to address.”
Like gun control, perhaps, because 33,000 people a year die from gun violence. I would consider this “cause for alarm”. We “females” bear the burden of our reproductive responsibiity which many “males” are free to ignore.
Like gun control, perhaps, because 33,000 people a year die from gun violence. I would consider this “cause for alarm”. We “females” bear the burden of our reproductive responsibiity which many “males” are free to ignore.
9
Good luck with the upcoming supreme Court decision...the super majority of the Court is made up of Catholics. How did this happen? And we fuss over shariah law in other countries? Look around the US and see the influence of right wing religion on our culture and our laws. Wake up everyone.
41
Exactly. Reminders if the Dark Ages, church control, Salem witch trials, Catholicism not allowing women priests,
Women fighting for the right to vote, persecution of minorities & women has been occurring for centuries. Men will do this until we as women put a stop to it. Vote for people who support us as equal. Even the corporate laws are a laugh, women do not earn equal pay for the same job. Who s kidding who? Cmon girls open your eyes !
Women fighting for the right to vote, persecution of minorities & women has been occurring for centuries. Men will do this until we as women put a stop to it. Vote for people who support us as equal. Even the corporate laws are a laugh, women do not earn equal pay for the same job. Who s kidding who? Cmon girls open your eyes !
4
I am always astounded at the similiarities of some Muslim nations and the Republican Party. Both need a religious force to back them because they need to deflect from their own behavior. So a few take all the money from natural resources and use a religious arm to get the "people" fired up and keep them in power.
Roe v Wade should never had to come about in the first place. Prior to it, doctors and patients sat in a protected room, discussed what was best both physically, emotionally and financially for the woman or the entire family and made a PRIIVATE DECISION. However, not all were treated equal and women without access to a doctor were hurting themselves in desperation.
Are there true believers in pro life? Of course. But it isn't the Republican Party.
What can they say to rabble their base. Guns have fallen a bit out of fashion after all the mass shootings so they turn to women once again.
If they were truly honest, they'd say they didn't care as much as they portend but in order for them to stay on office, they need this element.
Can't exactly say "we despise the poor, want to take away your Medicare, social security, cut taxes for the rich and any helpful service for the poor which is mostly children." Might not go over so well so they use reproductive rights. I would bet 99% of these lawmakers have wives, daughters, granddaughters who used birth control. Good for the goose and to heck with the gander!
Roe v Wade should never had to come about in the first place. Prior to it, doctors and patients sat in a protected room, discussed what was best both physically, emotionally and financially for the woman or the entire family and made a PRIIVATE DECISION. However, not all were treated equal and women without access to a doctor were hurting themselves in desperation.
Are there true believers in pro life? Of course. But it isn't the Republican Party.
What can they say to rabble their base. Guns have fallen a bit out of fashion after all the mass shootings so they turn to women once again.
If they were truly honest, they'd say they didn't care as much as they portend but in order for them to stay on office, they need this element.
Can't exactly say "we despise the poor, want to take away your Medicare, social security, cut taxes for the rich and any helpful service for the poor which is mostly children." Might not go over so well so they use reproductive rights. I would bet 99% of these lawmakers have wives, daughters, granddaughters who used birth control. Good for the goose and to heck with the gander!
10
Almost all Christians, except for a few radicals, allow birth control. The argument is about murdering the children who are created when women - and their men, by the way - are irresponsible. Please, oh, please practice birth control with our blessing!
4
Victor Edwards, you are aware that birth control sometimes fails? Take off the rose colored glasses and see reality for what it is. Life is messy and complicated. You forced birthers fail to see that - it's all black and white to you. I've had two abortions because birth control failed, I don't regret either one for a second. Mind your own business, you know nothing of someone else's circumstances. Keep your religious malarkey to yourself.
6
Religious conservatives and those politicians who pander to them have become nothing less than an American Taliban seeking to force women to conform to arbitrary religious moral standards with which they themselves are not burdened. Perhaps this is a reaction of anxious white males to their loss of status in the world. In any event the trend represents a serious diminution of the pursuit of life, liberty and happiness of 51 percent of America's citizens.
45
"... of 51 percent of America's citizens".
Yes, but they are not "equal citizens". The "Equal Rights Amendment" was thrown out back in the 80's by Ronnie and the Religious Right. Of course they can be regulated by the minority - they are not Constitutionally equal. They are not like men, who have full Constitutional inclusion.
Indeed, the men of this country are "American Taliban". The women in Afghanistan are not legally equal either. They have the same "rights" as an American woman - they can vote..... and that's all they can do.
But, I must disagree with the "white" part. At age 67 I have noticed that it makes no difference whether a man is white//Catholic/rich/educated/straight/atheist/or gun totin'.... when it comes to a woman's uterus, they can all come up with a justification on why they can regulate an unknown woman's ladyparts..... but never another unknown man's reproduction.
Why do you suppose that is...?
Yes, but they are not "equal citizens". The "Equal Rights Amendment" was thrown out back in the 80's by Ronnie and the Religious Right. Of course they can be regulated by the minority - they are not Constitutionally equal. They are not like men, who have full Constitutional inclusion.
Indeed, the men of this country are "American Taliban". The women in Afghanistan are not legally equal either. They have the same "rights" as an American woman - they can vote..... and that's all they can do.
But, I must disagree with the "white" part. At age 67 I have noticed that it makes no difference whether a man is white//Catholic/rich/educated/straight/atheist/or gun totin'.... when it comes to a woman's uterus, they can all come up with a justification on why they can regulate an unknown woman's ladyparts..... but never another unknown man's reproduction.
Why do you suppose that is...?
6
Let's see, are the words "You shall not kill" in any way "arbitrary," as you allege? They have been in place since the dawn of man. That is not arbitrary.
Interesting that you finally reveal yourself by claiming that having children is somehow a "serious diminution" of someone's rights. Either that, or life, liberty and happiness has been reduced in your mind to sexual intercourse.
Interesting that you finally reveal yourself by claiming that having children is somehow a "serious diminution" of someone's rights. Either that, or life, liberty and happiness has been reduced in your mind to sexual intercourse.
2
Let's face it, the most efficient way to stop promiscuous women from having unprotected sex is to force them to have children.
That'll teach 'em.
That'll teach 'em.
8
Rollback? Well, in a way yes. The yes being that a few less human beings were murdered. The fight will be tireless, after all human life is at stake. Best we use O's phrase, 'history is on our side', that being abortion will some day in the near future be completely outlawed. As for 'reasonable', killing a human being can never be such. Its that simple.
2
Abortion is not the killing of a human being. Stop trying to delude people.
11
And how many unwanted children have you adopted?
7
Oh, please....abortion is NEVER going away. It's always been with us, even before Roe v Wade. It's just that women will be dying from abortions if RvW is repealed. But I guess okay with you Coolhunter (and KMW), because in your eyes, women aren't worth anything.
9
Imagine a world where all laws relating to abortion punished the father of the aborted foetus, and where an abortion is not available and the mother cannot/does not want to continue the pregnancy the father is financially responsible for the child. And then if the father does not pay up, then the State pays substantial cash to the child's mother for the duration of the childhood. Maybe then a few things might change.
9
Well Gee there are such laws, the implementation of them is the issue. Many times neither parent cares and the state must provide for those children. Nothing changes.
Do you really not care about the killing of the unborn?
Sometimes in life, we are faced with two opposing values, both legitimate.
Do we really not have brains and hearts big enough to see that both claims are legitimate and that we must seek an imperfect compromise?
Why is the NYT so callous about the unborn?
Think about this - every pro-choice woman was a fetus at one time.
Sometimes in life, we are faced with two opposing values, both legitimate.
Do we really not have brains and hearts big enough to see that both claims are legitimate and that we must seek an imperfect compromise?
Why is the NYT so callous about the unborn?
Think about this - every pro-choice woman was a fetus at one time.
4
No, I don't care about the "killing of the unborn." What I do care about is living in a society where intellectual dishonesty and rhetorical tricks such as this tired old trope don't carry the day. We're not talking here about "two opposing values" but two social constructs. I chose not to believe in yours.
8
I am a mother of 2 grown children, one daughter, one son. Love them both dearly, for years, they were my life. Never had an abortion. BUT! I am not going to have some religious male egos take away my right to control my body & my life, and that of my daughter and any future granddaughters as well. Just because you are pro choice, doesn't mean you are going to have an abortion. It means you want women to have access to birth control, and to have control of their bodies, their lives. Also, let us recognize that support for children goes 18 years beyond the unborn, something that the religious right ignores.
7
Aruna"
"Sometimes in life we are faced with two opposing values.."
Yes. And for me those "two" are:
1) Choice, or,
2) forcing a woman to be a breeder.
This is not a matter of "brains" or "hearts".
It is a matter of a "uterus", and who gets to decide how said uterus will be used.
Now, why don't you take your desire to regulate other people's anatomy over to the other humans that are also involved in a pregnancy: to the men, and regulate them for awhile? What do you say... 20 years in jail for flinging out their sperm without consideration? Forced vasectomies? Castration for a rape that engenders a pregnancy?
It's virgin territory over there. No one regulates males!
I'd be curious to hear what your arguments would be.
"Sometimes in life we are faced with two opposing values.."
Yes. And for me those "two" are:
1) Choice, or,
2) forcing a woman to be a breeder.
This is not a matter of "brains" or "hearts".
It is a matter of a "uterus", and who gets to decide how said uterus will be used.
Now, why don't you take your desire to regulate other people's anatomy over to the other humans that are also involved in a pregnancy: to the men, and regulate them for awhile? What do you say... 20 years in jail for flinging out their sperm without consideration? Forced vasectomies? Castration for a rape that engenders a pregnancy?
It's virgin territory over there. No one regulates males!
I'd be curious to hear what your arguments would be.
14
Question to the women of America:
Don't you get tired of letting a bunch of men telling you what you can and cannot do with your bodies?
Don't you get tired of letting a bunch of men telling you what you can and cannot do with your bodies?
32
So, you are not supportive of democracy, the representative democracy that has established the greatest and freest country in history? Those "bunch of men" are our choices for representation -- unless of course you do not support choice.
Touche'
Touche'
3
Yes I am tired if it. I say the same thing to all women.
4
Liberalism promotes options...conservatism does not.
Liberalism permits differing view points...conservatism does not.
Liberalism requires pragmatism...conservatism does not.
Democracy is grounded in liberalism...theocracy is grounded in conservatism.
Liberalism permits differing view points...conservatism does not.
Liberalism requires pragmatism...conservatism does not.
Democracy is grounded in liberalism...theocracy is grounded in conservatism.
31
A foolish sweeper, progressives insist that they are correct and everyone should just agree with them. That permits differing points of view? What a joke.
3
Except for the option of keeping your own money...
1
Conservatism promotes humane and moral options; liberalism promotes death and immorality.
Conservatism is tolerant of dissent; liberalism is totally NOT! Liberalism is hateful.
Liberalism does indeed promote the crassest kind of pragmatism [which you must think is the supreme good]; conservatism promotes creative and moral progress.
Democracy simply is NOT grounded in liberalism; that is just one of liberalism's lies. This country was forged in the crucible of Christian belief in tolerance and freedom.
Conservatism is tolerant of dissent; liberalism is totally NOT! Liberalism is hateful.
Liberalism does indeed promote the crassest kind of pragmatism [which you must think is the supreme good]; conservatism promotes creative and moral progress.
Democracy simply is NOT grounded in liberalism; that is just one of liberalism's lies. This country was forged in the crucible of Christian belief in tolerance and freedom.
2
It is the human right of all women to determine their reproductive lives, to have control over their own bodies. It is not the right of men and evangelicals and religious nuts to hold sway over Womens' Rights with the vile TRAP laws and denying funding of Planned Parenthood. The Looney Tunes and Merry Melodies music we hear coming from the 13 Republican Wannabe POTUSes running their exhaustive and awful marathon for the Presidency next year is that women's rights to their own bodies means diddly. A fine title for this NYT editorial - "The Reproductive Rights Rollback of 2015", This is not Walmart's where we seek "rollbacks" in every over-stuffed, crammed aisle. This is the United States where we see the Republicans in Southern States declaring "personhood" for women's eggs. Personhood for eggs, not for women! How revolting this intended rollback to void the law of Roe v. Wade of 1973. We need many more Roe v. Wades ruled on by the Supreme Court. Alas, in the current war against women times in which we live, rollbacks to antidiluvian and demented male behaviour is what will occur in the states that deny women human rights.
21
Yes of course it is until another human being becomes involved. If you control your body properly no abortion would be required or possible.
3
"Reproductive rights," that vile euphemism for murder of children. Please, give us a break, East Coast liberals.
3
"Pro life", that vile euphemism for pro forced-childbirth. Please, give us a break, religious fanatics.
6
Ladies, off year elections have consequences. If a handful of zealots are the only ones who show up to vote guess who rules your state legislature. If you care about your right to choose or even have affordable access to general health care you have to vote EVERY year not just Presidential years.
166
If any woman is forced to carry a pregnancy to term, the biological father (easy to determine now with DNA testing) should also be required to provide at least half of the (generous) support needed to raise the child for well-being in our society until the child is 21. If the father is unable and/or unwilling to do so, the government steps in with generous support for the child. However, if this happens, the government also requires that the biological father get a vasectomy, so he is prevented from producing any more children whose support falls to the government.
If the government is going to legislate regarding the woman's body and reproductive function, then it should also legislate regarding the man's body and reproductive function.
Why is the father completely left out of these discussions? Biologically, the man contributes half. If laws were set up so that men's lives were anywhere near as affected by an unmanageable pregnancy as the women's, their push to criminalize abortion and shut down abortion clinics would lose steam fast.
Why do these SADISTIC old men who will NEVER get pregnant keep trying to load the women up with 100% of the consequences for irresponsible sex and/or failed contraception, while also leaving MILLIONS of children to grow up in unconscionable poverty?
If the government is going to legislate regarding the woman's body and reproductive function, then it should also legislate regarding the man's body and reproductive function.
Why is the father completely left out of these discussions? Biologically, the man contributes half. If laws were set up so that men's lives were anywhere near as affected by an unmanageable pregnancy as the women's, their push to criminalize abortion and shut down abortion clinics would lose steam fast.
Why do these SADISTIC old men who will NEVER get pregnant keep trying to load the women up with 100% of the consequences for irresponsible sex and/or failed contraception, while also leaving MILLIONS of children to grow up in unconscionable poverty?
21
If men could get pregnant, every altar in every church would be equipped with stirrups and a speculum.
8
Women can already take men to the cleaners for child support. Men, meanwhile, are powerless to protect their own offspring in the womb. More than once I've seen the emotional toll it takes on fathers when their girlfriends run off to a clinic without their knowledge or consent.
3
Well Gee fathers are legally responsible, if you know who they are. And we do provide what I consider generous support. Bad parents are the issue.
1
If adoption were easier than abortion more lives like mine would be saved.
4
In some surveys, American men support abortion rights more than women; in others, the rates are about even. In short: men are not the roadblock.
And WOMEN vote for the men in office who roll these rights back.
Feminists cannot blame this on men -- we must blame it on feminism.
Women were at the one yard line -- fully paid extended maternity leave and abortion rights permanently in sight.
And what did they do? They turned to the third wave feminists and began vilifying men: the wage gape is a lie, campus rape statistics are lies, misogynistic men do not exist in the numbers feminists suggest.
Men are too busy with our own problems: our health issues are ignored in comparison to women's health issues; the media portrays us as idiots; boys are failing in schools and we continue to fund special SMET programs for girls; men get 63% more jail time for the same crime; rates of homelessness, poverty, alcoholism for men are exceptionally higher than for women and we ignore the plight of men.
No, women, this is YOUR problem. YOU did this. YOU turned way from the goal and listened to the feminists vilifying men. And now men are too focused on our own issues. You almost had the goal and you listened to the feminists and began hating on men. Feminists brought this on you.
And after two years of lies on the wage gap and campus rape do you REALLY think men care about the feminist whine anymore?
YOU did this to yourselves.
And WOMEN vote for the men in office who roll these rights back.
Feminists cannot blame this on men -- we must blame it on feminism.
Women were at the one yard line -- fully paid extended maternity leave and abortion rights permanently in sight.
And what did they do? They turned to the third wave feminists and began vilifying men: the wage gape is a lie, campus rape statistics are lies, misogynistic men do not exist in the numbers feminists suggest.
Men are too busy with our own problems: our health issues are ignored in comparison to women's health issues; the media portrays us as idiots; boys are failing in schools and we continue to fund special SMET programs for girls; men get 63% more jail time for the same crime; rates of homelessness, poverty, alcoholism for men are exceptionally higher than for women and we ignore the plight of men.
No, women, this is YOUR problem. YOU did this. YOU turned way from the goal and listened to the feminists vilifying men. And now men are too focused on our own issues. You almost had the goal and you listened to the feminists and began hating on men. Feminists brought this on you.
And after two years of lies on the wage gap and campus rape do you REALLY think men care about the feminist whine anymore?
YOU did this to yourselves.
8
Wow- what a misogynist. Please stay in Norway. Feminism means a woman wants equal rights and be able to make her own choices. Period.
10
Foolish. Narcissistic. Pleased that you have found a safe place and a non-violent place to communicate your ideas. I have been informed.
5
No, the religious right did this!
6
Why can't we just agree to an amicable divorce? Let the South and the Plains states go their own way and have their simplistic judgmental culture, but leave the rest of us alone.
19
That would be the intent of "states rights" that is a part of the constitution. Seems pretty simple allow states to restrict abortion somewhat, those that want abortion can go to states that provide it. Those that support abortion can have charities to assist in the travel. Very simple, nobody around here wants to force New York not to have abortions.
1
And for Christ's sake, don't allow them to receive a farthing of our tax money.
5
What an excellent proposal!
4
Here we go again. My heart breaks for fellow members of my sex who're endangered by this. I'm just flat out relieved and glad that:
1. Hopefully, now I'm probably just too old for this to affect me biologically.
2. When I was still at that stage, a severe and dangerous medical problem rendered surgery necessary. Being childfree, I was thrilled to have the surgery and haven't looked back.
What a grotesque, pathetic and obscene indictment this is for womens' rights
and especially reproductive rights in this country.
Submitted 12/20/15@4:31 a.m. e.s.t.
1. Hopefully, now I'm probably just too old for this to affect me biologically.
2. When I was still at that stage, a severe and dangerous medical problem rendered surgery necessary. Being childfree, I was thrilled to have the surgery and haven't looked back.
What a grotesque, pathetic and obscene indictment this is for womens' rights
and especially reproductive rights in this country.
Submitted 12/20/15@4:31 a.m. e.s.t.
18
It seems obvious there is little respect for the female gender among
extremist politicians, and religious zealots. It's fine for males to care for and control their body, but not fine for women to care for themselves.
What's that, you said? There have been numerous occasions when male politicians have said the words uterus and ovaries are never to be spoken! This runs parallel to their out-of-control desire to dominate all women ---
and their wish to deny women their constitutional freedom, justice and liberty. Moreover it points to a certain culture of males who are obsessed with sex and forcibly project their fantasies ONTO women. This extremist culture connects guilt and raging hysteria -- with their sexual fantasies.
I can't help but recall the recent Muslim panel on women -- in which no
women invited. How does this compare to the GOP panel on women --
in which no women invited?
extremist politicians, and religious zealots. It's fine for males to care for and control their body, but not fine for women to care for themselves.
What's that, you said? There have been numerous occasions when male politicians have said the words uterus and ovaries are never to be spoken! This runs parallel to their out-of-control desire to dominate all women ---
and their wish to deny women their constitutional freedom, justice and liberty. Moreover it points to a certain culture of males who are obsessed with sex and forcibly project their fantasies ONTO women. This extremist culture connects guilt and raging hysteria -- with their sexual fantasies.
I can't help but recall the recent Muslim panel on women -- in which no
women invited. How does this compare to the GOP panel on women --
in which no women invited?
28
"Requiring doctors to give misleading information...." Isn't that fraud?
23
I have been waiting for the court case from a state that requires doctors to provide misleading or incorrect information. Legislatures telling doctors what to say seems to me to be practicing medicine without a license.
6
Apparently, not when it is legally required.
1
Why on earth do we allow men to pass this legislation?
21
How richly ironic that the New York Times, tireless proponent of government-driven social engineering, is suddenly and selectively horrified by the "interference of politicians."
4
Really! These women should have to face the consequences of their own plight of becoming pregnant and raise the child without any interference from the likes of anyone having thoughts of somehow there could be a greater good for all. Great point.
2
It is richly ironic that the party of small government who is deeply mistrustful of the ACA and gov't interference in healthcare has no problem stepping inside women's uterii to tell them what to do.
8
Let's face it. The anti-abortion crowd will resort to any form of tyranny to shove their agenda down the throats of women whose stories they don't know and don't care about. Their moralizing is making a mockery of the US Constitution.
35
And it makes a mockery of whatever religion is sponsoring it. No wonder the number of Christians is dropping.
4
If the Republicans somehow roll back or end Obamacare millions of Americans will be seeking access to low-cost healthcare -- like that available through Planned Parenthood. With Planned Parenthood services reduced or shuttered, then what?! Unbelievable.
21
Then donate to planned parenthood. Unbelievable that you would support selling fetus without permission.
1
Pro choice advocates have sat back thinking the 1973 decision iced the cake.
It's gotten so bad that pro choice advocates have even adopted the phony language of the other side; "unborn child," and "partial birth abortion" for example. In fact the pro choice movement recently indicated it no longer wanted to be referred to by that term.
Here is what the standard should be for determining an undue burden on a woman seeking an abortion: would a second amendment advocate accept the same restrictions on the purchase of a gun or would a second amendment advocate claim it is an undue burden on the exercise of a constitutional right?
It's gotten so bad that pro choice advocates have even adopted the phony language of the other side; "unborn child," and "partial birth abortion" for example. In fact the pro choice movement recently indicated it no longer wanted to be referred to by that term.
Here is what the standard should be for determining an undue burden on a woman seeking an abortion: would a second amendment advocate accept the same restrictions on the purchase of a gun or would a second amendment advocate claim it is an undue burden on the exercise of a constitutional right?
5
That caveat goes both ways. Knowingly or not, you hit on two issues where the folks on the fringes drive the agenda. I distrust gun control advocates because I believe their end game is "no guns". I believe the same dynamic is true for the abortion debate. These dynamics result in folks adamantly defending things like late term abortions - something I would like to believe most people are against.
Pro-life people aren't interested in preventing pregnancies with contraception. So the idea that they dislike abortion is absurd. Making contraception difficult to obtain means more abortions. Someone powerful should call their bluff! It is clear they just want to control women. That is it. They are not serious about preventing unwanted pregnancies
Horrible.
Horrible.
42
What they really want is more starving peasants to shovel out their stalls for less money.
11
I brought a child into this world from anonymous sperm donation as a single women and sure received a lot of criticism from anti-abortion people! It wd have been "ok" w them if I had "sinned" by having sex outside of marriage and decided against abortion (even tho they wd not have been there to help me raise this child).
I resent this hypocritical standard that I received, particularly from long-time family friends of white evangelicals in Dallas.
Today, my 15 yr old son is thriving and we have been blessed w a husband/father to complete our family. We look like the Beaver Cleaver family even though we arrived her in an nontraditional way.
I wish these pro-life folks would just shut up and mind their own business---they have no right to tell me how to manage my body.
I resent this hypocritical standard that I received, particularly from long-time family friends of white evangelicals in Dallas.
Today, my 15 yr old son is thriving and we have been blessed w a husband/father to complete our family. We look like the Beaver Cleaver family even though we arrived her in an nontraditional way.
I wish these pro-life folks would just shut up and mind their own business---they have no right to tell me how to manage my body.
37
There is no constitutional right to abortion, any more than there is a right to put your elderly parents out on the street once they hit 80. That "right" was pulled out of thin air by an ultra-liberal, ultra-overreaching court. The morality or immorality of that ultimate life or death procedure should be decided by society via our elected representatives -- not judges.
3
I am no Constitutional scholar – I suspect you aren’t either. But my understanding is that the basis of our government is that we are born with inalienable rights (liberty included) and those rights can only be restricted by the government if there is a clear government interest. The right to an abortion is something every woman is born with. The government has no valid claim to interfere with that right until the point of viability.
10
Baloney. Before male doctors took over obstetrics, midwives used natural abortificants regularly. You need more education and less superstition.
10
You cant be serious! I cant wait until your daughter, niece, grandaughter, wife, lover, becomes pregnant either due to a lack of contraception or (God forbid) horribly raped, and you ask your state rep or judge if they will aow her to have an abortion.
5
These here United States used to be considered a shining beacon of modernity and progress. We, the People, used to be the ones who fought for progressive laws and statutes that guaranteed all sorts of things for those fortunate enough to live from sea to shining sea.
Not so these days.
The oligarchs have off-shored out futures, leaving precious few jobs that actually make _something_ tangible, with the aftershock of leaving large swaths of American ingenuity unemployed while at the same time making sure women would never achieve equality in the workplace or in matters of personal choice.
The denial of reproductive rights to women is a canary in this coal mine. These restrictions are draconian. Those are the voices who would deny women equal rights not just in doctors' offices, but in the workplace as well.
Those voices who claim to be pro-family are slowly destroying that very same fabric. We, the People, are becoming a nation of poor people without hope. It won't happen in the next election cycle, or even the one after that, but eventually voters rights will be further restricted and the original "landowner only" vote will reappear as the only vote permitted by the Constitution. It begins with the revocation of women's rights, and slides along from there.
Therein lies the tragedy: America; it coulda been a contender.
http://wifelyperson.blogspot.com/
Not so these days.
The oligarchs have off-shored out futures, leaving precious few jobs that actually make _something_ tangible, with the aftershock of leaving large swaths of American ingenuity unemployed while at the same time making sure women would never achieve equality in the workplace or in matters of personal choice.
The denial of reproductive rights to women is a canary in this coal mine. These restrictions are draconian. Those are the voices who would deny women equal rights not just in doctors' offices, but in the workplace as well.
Those voices who claim to be pro-family are slowly destroying that very same fabric. We, the People, are becoming a nation of poor people without hope. It won't happen in the next election cycle, or even the one after that, but eventually voters rights will be further restricted and the original "landowner only" vote will reappear as the only vote permitted by the Constitution. It begins with the revocation of women's rights, and slides along from there.
Therein lies the tragedy: America; it coulda been a contender.
http://wifelyperson.blogspot.com/
16
I understand the concern about the hidden agenda of some of these laws and the reduction in the total number of available facilities, but I really can't understand why we have more health standards for urgent care clinics in the neighborhood strip mall or tattoo parlors and tanning salons any where than we do for abortion service providers. Couch it in all the euphemisms you want, but having an abortion, especially one farther along, is a medical procedure for which sanitary conditions should be a no brainer and certain regulatory standards desirable. People who seem to have no trouble demanding restrictions and government regulation and controls on virtually everything down to the size of sodas an adult may consume, seem oddly complacent when considering basic levels of professionalism, sanitation and medical oversight at abortion clinics. Why can't some happy medium be found? How can you claim to support women's health when basically anything goes in the abortion standards arena?
4
You are assuming that safety is the goal. Clinics for years have had sufficient safety measures and access to hospitals if necessary. They have not been unregulated but appropriately regulated. Lets remember we are talking about access for poor people. Those with money have access without relying on Planned Parenthood.
7
If there were the remotest evidence that any woman's life had ever been endangered by an abortion in a Planned Parenthood clinic, there might be some substance to your argument.
8
@ Deborah. If only we required evidence of effectiveness for every government policy. I think we'd have a much smaller government.
2
Almost every Republican presidential candidate opposes all abortions under any circumstances. The United States is moving back into an era of reproductive tyranny where male politicians - whether on the state or the national level - feel entitled to control the uterus and reproductive health of every single woman in the country. This endless attack on the rights of women, of minorities, of immigrants, of Muslims, of gays is like a wave of poison. Who do these people think they are? Again and again, they go against the views of average Americans and try to force their religion or bigotry on everyone else. This is not about equal rights or American values. This is the US version of the Taliban or some medieval witch hunt.
I will never vote for someone who does not respect the rights of their fellow Americans: women's rights, voting rights, and the right to be free of gun violence are issues I care deeply about.
I will never vote for someone who does not respect the rights of their fellow Americans: women's rights, voting rights, and the right to be free of gun violence are issues I care deeply about.
46
It seems clear that the only things GOP legislators are interested in regulating in this country are abortion and contraception.
As far as legislation for environmental protection, financial regulation, predatory drug pricing, gun control, enforcement of the separation between Church and State, and basic worker's rights their policy could be succinctly summed up as "Let 'er rip! "
It is not difficult not to imagine that taking away a woman's constitutionally guaranteed right to contol her reproductive health could be a bellwether for much worse to come in all areas of our lives.
As far as legislation for environmental protection, financial regulation, predatory drug pricing, gun control, enforcement of the separation between Church and State, and basic worker's rights their policy could be succinctly summed up as "Let 'er rip! "
It is not difficult not to imagine that taking away a woman's constitutionally guaranteed right to contol her reproductive health could be a bellwether for much worse to come in all areas of our lives.
47
Literally, every man woman and child is related to or closely associated to a woman that terminated a pregnancy. ~50 million abortion sense 1973 means that 100 million people were directly involved and another 200 million with either the mother or father of the couple that terminated a pregnancy. Anti-abortionist are the most hypocritical bunch (on the face of the earth) because they are all guilty, likely lying about themselves or their offsprings as they pay for abortions. The data are interesting, and also strongly suggest that every Judge in America are similarly directly connected to a termination. Uptight religious, moral critics are worried about sexual pleasure or femal libido but not necessarily abortion. The data speaks volumes...
10
Perhaps there would be a change if the women who can't get an abortion could place the responsibility for raising and nurturing the child with the politicians who prevented the abortion. There would soon be enough children to convince these opponents of abortion that they did not want that responsibility.
18
I have said before that any woman who is forced to give birth to a child she does not want should: 1. walk out of the hospital leaving the baby behind, or 2.
deposit that baby on the steps of a nearby state legislature or a church. A woman cannot be forced to provide care.
deposit that baby on the steps of a nearby state legislature or a church. A woman cannot be forced to provide care.
4
We are in the bizarre place right now where it is politically popular to rail against constraining individual property rights, while demanding that government constrain individual moral actions.
So we have politicians at every level of government, demanding that we roll back social programs, eliminate any approach to healthcare, reduce taxes even if infrastructure crumbles, because individual property rights trump social responsibility.
BUT... at the same time, that government that we must drown in the bathtub, should step in and determine who continues pregnancies, who has children, who can be married, based on religious beliefs that are not universally held.
Property cannot be regulated, but sexual mores and women's self-determination can.
I hope that the Supreme Court would rule against these theocratic laws; but I believe that four and possibly five of the justices agree with the approach.
So we have politicians at every level of government, demanding that we roll back social programs, eliminate any approach to healthcare, reduce taxes even if infrastructure crumbles, because individual property rights trump social responsibility.
BUT... at the same time, that government that we must drown in the bathtub, should step in and determine who continues pregnancies, who has children, who can be married, based on religious beliefs that are not universally held.
Property cannot be regulated, but sexual mores and women's self-determination can.
I hope that the Supreme Court would rule against these theocratic laws; but I believe that four and possibly five of the justices agree with the approach.
24
Not a right? Is this the problem? Gee Whiz, Benjamin, if you were the one pregnant, would you want an abortion? Even if the sex was your idea, but your birth control failed dramatically? Perhaps we should, in that case, sue the manufacturer. Perhaps we, women, should just sue the daddies who helped manufacture the baby. This is an issue of religion and male control of women's bodies. Pure and simple. What about the right to have fertility treatment? What is so different about anti-fertility treatment? Men, do you get it? A woman has as much right to control her body as a man does to control his. A RIGHT! And I bet I'm not the only person that can rant on this subject. A man should not have the RIGHT to force a woman to end a pregnancy, nor the RIGHT to decide she cannot end it.
4
Recently I was told that in virtually every other developed country pregnancies are terminated in hospitals. Regular, all-purpose hospitals.
As a result, no one sees gun-wielding lunatics out front, because at regular, all-purpose hospitals, a patient's reason for entering is unknown to others. It is, as it should be, a private matter between patient and doctor.
But here? In the exceptionally exceptional US of A? In statehouses across the land, self-righteous clans comprised mostly of men, are given free-rein (by voters) to force perfect strangers to be parents, ready or not.
As a result, no one sees gun-wielding lunatics out front, because at regular, all-purpose hospitals, a patient's reason for entering is unknown to others. It is, as it should be, a private matter between patient and doctor.
But here? In the exceptionally exceptional US of A? In statehouses across the land, self-righteous clans comprised mostly of men, are given free-rein (by voters) to force perfect strangers to be parents, ready or not.
60
And those who force unwanted or unaffordable children on society are the same people who get their jollies starving the poor and ridiculing the barefoot for not pulling themselves up by their bootstraps.
11
The ongoing reproductive rights rollback of 2015 and prior years as well is part of the creeping theocracy of the right and an American disgrace. Yes, it's become a state by state issue but these are not states on some distant planet. The rollback of women's reproductive rights, the religious and racial bigotry against minorities on display and growing, the insane gun laws and mindset, the war against the poor and middle class, all point to an America in decline. If we can vote another Democrat into the White House which is a must it will be still only be the finger in the proverbial dike. The question is how can we change this dynamic? I for one, don't have a clue.
38
Exactly. The young people of our nation must fight the nee fight and we must recognize all people as equal, that is how. It must come from the younger generations because they actually believe that. Obviously anyone over age 30 is stuck in the men are the stronger sex mindset.
I would never deny a safe abortion to any women. Abortion should be legal as a practical matter but not as a Right. To take a crude evasion of the realities and responsibilities that nature has placed on women and elevate it to a Right coarsens the world.
America was moving in the direction of legal, safe, abortion and ending the back alley butchering of desperate women when the Supreme Court intervened and declared murder a Right as long as the victim was in a place defined by uterine walls where the jurisdiction of the state did not apply. Why the state’s jurisdiction should end at a women’s womb has never been satisfactorily explained to many of us. The continued use of ridiculous arguments about women controlling their bodies is silly, all laws control us, our bodies and limit are freedom.
The restrictions the Times is complaining about are the result of the backlash, still affecting us after over forty years, of the undemocratic elevation of abortion to a Right. Roe v. Wade has had a profoundly negative effect on our politics, and it is the main reason progressive change to eliminate poverty and inequality has stalled in this country since the 60’s.
I fully expect the Supreme Court will uphold the Texas law forcing many more women back into back alleys, but supporters of abortion should realize that we would not be where we are today if we had left the issue to the American people in the first place.
America was moving in the direction of legal, safe, abortion and ending the back alley butchering of desperate women when the Supreme Court intervened and declared murder a Right as long as the victim was in a place defined by uterine walls where the jurisdiction of the state did not apply. Why the state’s jurisdiction should end at a women’s womb has never been satisfactorily explained to many of us. The continued use of ridiculous arguments about women controlling their bodies is silly, all laws control us, our bodies and limit are freedom.
The restrictions the Times is complaining about are the result of the backlash, still affecting us after over forty years, of the undemocratic elevation of abortion to a Right. Roe v. Wade has had a profoundly negative effect on our politics, and it is the main reason progressive change to eliminate poverty and inequality has stalled in this country since the 60’s.
I fully expect the Supreme Court will uphold the Texas law forcing many more women back into back alleys, but supporters of abortion should realize that we would not be where we are today if we had left the issue to the American people in the first place.
6
Totally disagree! but my reply got tagged to a comment further on down the line. I apologize to 'Cathy'. My rant was meant for Benjamin.
4
Should I allow my pregnancy be subject to the capricious agreement of fellow voters as suggested by "abortion should be legal as a matter of practical matter but not as a Right." I think viability should be firmly set at NO LESS than 25 weeks. Too many suffering babies; let women decide.
7
@niiiTROY It is funny how liberals are always proclaiming their rights are inviolate and should not be subjected to democratic debate but they are uniformly unwilling to grant the same courtesy to people with whom they disagree, gun owners for example. If someone says their right to bear arms is inviolate, you would howl at them and call them redneck Neanderthals. I am at least consistent thinking all rights other than the fundamental one listed in the Bill of Rights should be subject to the will of the people (a full reading second amendment says the right to bear arms is only inviolate because of the need for a citizens militia which isn't needed anymore making the amendment obsolete).
1
The political fight over the regulation of abortion is one of the most contentious and emotional debates we as a nation face.
But it is important to understand that most who oppose unrestricted abortion are not sinister Republican lawmakers who feel a visceral urge to legislatively assume control of women’s bodies. Rather, this is about people who truly believe a fetus is an unborn child, and that it very much has rights of its own.
When an infant is born, it is years before it can survive on its own. Both our fundamental moral precepts and our laws require that parents nurture and provide for their children. Failures to do so are, and should be, treated very seriously. Fortunately, in the large majority of cases, parents do everything they can to protect and provide for their offspring. But, when necessary, the rights of the infant may take precedence over the rights of the parents.
The vast majority of those who oppose unrestricted abortion do so because they feel the fetus is a person; there is a moral obligation, and there should be a legal obligation, to protect the unborn child. Others disagree.
There are many shades of gray, including cases of rape and incest, and fetuses known to have major medical conditions; there are no easy answers to most of these issues.
But it is inappropriate characterize, as many “prochoice” editorialists do, that those who wish to restrict abortion are misogynists or Neanderthals.
But it is important to understand that most who oppose unrestricted abortion are not sinister Republican lawmakers who feel a visceral urge to legislatively assume control of women’s bodies. Rather, this is about people who truly believe a fetus is an unborn child, and that it very much has rights of its own.
When an infant is born, it is years before it can survive on its own. Both our fundamental moral precepts and our laws require that parents nurture and provide for their children. Failures to do so are, and should be, treated very seriously. Fortunately, in the large majority of cases, parents do everything they can to protect and provide for their offspring. But, when necessary, the rights of the infant may take precedence over the rights of the parents.
The vast majority of those who oppose unrestricted abortion do so because they feel the fetus is a person; there is a moral obligation, and there should be a legal obligation, to protect the unborn child. Others disagree.
There are many shades of gray, including cases of rape and incest, and fetuses known to have major medical conditions; there are no easy answers to most of these issues.
But it is inappropriate characterize, as many “prochoice” editorialists do, that those who wish to restrict abortion are misogynists or Neanderthals.
21
Have you considered that Planned Parenthood may be the most "pro-life organization" in America? They offer basic healthcare and birth control services that support the healthcare needs of individuals and families. And they make it affordable and accessible. Isn't this what we all want?
33
What I find most offensive about this comment is that because it wraps up bombshells in a nice polite shiny paper wrapper, the expectation that because it's wrapped up so pretty and politely that one must also accept the bombshells along with the polite wrapper.
The most important element avoided at all costs is the legitimacy of the lives of those who find themselves in the position of parents to be who realize and take responsibility for their soul searching conclusion that they cannot at that time take on any parental role and make the appropriate measures to be responsible for that realization. All the more so in this country, the richest but also the one with the highest rate of death and serious complications resulting from pregnancy in developed countries, the nation least providing for safe, accessible birth control, the most primitive and regressive notions of sex with the worst education about sex, and the most fundamentalist, judgmental religion that claims persecution while trying to ensnare everyone else in their beliefs feeling entitled to inflict their beliefs on others while intolerant of others beliefs existing at all.
I'm sorry, but no. This is just a really nasty "candy" wrapped up in shiny paper that should be tossed in the trash with any other questionables. People are entitled to their feelings but for themselves only. If they don't believe in abortions, don't have one but to say others are stuck with the limits of their beliefs is tyranny.
The most important element avoided at all costs is the legitimacy of the lives of those who find themselves in the position of parents to be who realize and take responsibility for their soul searching conclusion that they cannot at that time take on any parental role and make the appropriate measures to be responsible for that realization. All the more so in this country, the richest but also the one with the highest rate of death and serious complications resulting from pregnancy in developed countries, the nation least providing for safe, accessible birth control, the most primitive and regressive notions of sex with the worst education about sex, and the most fundamentalist, judgmental religion that claims persecution while trying to ensnare everyone else in their beliefs feeling entitled to inflict their beliefs on others while intolerant of others beliefs existing at all.
I'm sorry, but no. This is just a really nasty "candy" wrapped up in shiny paper that should be tossed in the trash with any other questionables. People are entitled to their feelings but for themselves only. If they don't believe in abortions, don't have one but to say others are stuck with the limits of their beliefs is tyranny.
14
You don't seem to appreciate the circumstances that can sometimes precede conception and that can then lead to an undesired, unplanned unsustainable result.
Some pregnancies are not viable. A woman's body is not a public lab.
What would you do if Roe v Wade is repealed? Put aborters in prison?
You fundamentally are arguing for pregnant women to be classified as property of the state whenever they become pregnant and that any doctor encountering a pregnant woman has to report this to a public database so this woman can be tracked and prosecuted if her pregnancy is terminated.
So there are tow sides to the story. It's OK to argue and lobby but please there are reasons why we have Roe v Wade. Nothing has changed since that law was passed. Women are all still at the same risk of becoming pregnant when they so not want to. And please don't warble about the woman should abstain. The computer programming and the physiology of both men and woman's bodies are designed to reproduce. So don't warble about abstinence. It's foolish in the real world.
Some pregnancies are not viable. A woman's body is not a public lab.
What would you do if Roe v Wade is repealed? Put aborters in prison?
You fundamentally are arguing for pregnant women to be classified as property of the state whenever they become pregnant and that any doctor encountering a pregnant woman has to report this to a public database so this woman can be tracked and prosecuted if her pregnancy is terminated.
So there are tow sides to the story. It's OK to argue and lobby but please there are reasons why we have Roe v Wade. Nothing has changed since that law was passed. Women are all still at the same risk of becoming pregnant when they so not want to. And please don't warble about the woman should abstain. The computer programming and the physiology of both men and woman's bodies are designed to reproduce. So don't warble about abstinence. It's foolish in the real world.
13
Fifty years ago, I was bleeding.
I did not dare to visit a doctor or even ask a friend what the bleeding meant or if it was dangerous.
A few days earlier, my father had been about to rape me, but my dear body had begun to bleed and it turned out he couldn't bear the sight of blood. He'd shoved me away and made me wash his sheets between contractions.
The next day, I'd been so sure the abortion-inducing medication (yes, it existed in 1965) had succeeded. I'd endured wave after wave of incredible pain and passed out on the bathroom floor. My arms bore bruises from eight strong fingers and two vicious thumbs. My face was purple and swollen.
The bleeding finally stopped, but now it had resumed. WHY???
To reveal my secret to a doctor would be to risk arrest, a trial, and prison. So I merely endured, pretending all was well. Concentrating on staying miles away from my father.
The bleeding eventually stopped. Again. A month later I knew the disaster of pregnancy had indeed been averted.
I will never forget what a young woman's life was like when pregnancy enforcers ruled my world.
I did not dare to visit a doctor or even ask a friend what the bleeding meant or if it was dangerous.
A few days earlier, my father had been about to rape me, but my dear body had begun to bleed and it turned out he couldn't bear the sight of blood. He'd shoved me away and made me wash his sheets between contractions.
The next day, I'd been so sure the abortion-inducing medication (yes, it existed in 1965) had succeeded. I'd endured wave after wave of incredible pain and passed out on the bathroom floor. My arms bore bruises from eight strong fingers and two vicious thumbs. My face was purple and swollen.
The bleeding finally stopped, but now it had resumed. WHY???
To reveal my secret to a doctor would be to risk arrest, a trial, and prison. So I merely endured, pretending all was well. Concentrating on staying miles away from my father.
The bleeding eventually stopped. Again. A month later I knew the disaster of pregnancy had indeed been averted.
I will never forget what a young woman's life was like when pregnancy enforcers ruled my world.
283
Republicans like to treat women as they do in Muslim countries. Republicans like to see women as properties not as human being. Control control is the name of the game in controlling women. If they don't get their way they run to the US Supreme court there they will at least get a 5 to 4 ruling in their favour.
10
Sorry to hear your tale. There are lots of individual horror stories about such crimes but we don't make laws or rules based on the exceptional cases. We make exceptions in the laws for those cases. The pregnancy enforcers, as you call them, may be spiritually inspired to embrace life, to cherish the one gift we all receive even though we have no choice. The imperative of life, whether in a simple amoeba or a complex organism like a human, is toward survival. When we kill that imperative for our own purposes, we usurp that imperative and commit an unnatural act, unless, of course, the exception in the law justifies our intervention. Life, not death, should be the objective.
3
I am so sorry that you went through those horrific experiences. However, abortion is now legal. Requiring doctors to have hospital admitting privileges, requiring abortion facilities to be safe and clean, and requiring clinics to be adequately staffed seem reasonable to me--these things all benefit the women getting abortions. These things all serve to help ensure that the procedure is done safely with the health and safety of the women being a top priority.
Again, I am so sorry that you had such terrible experiences. I hope that you have found a way to deal with with them, and are now in a much better place.
Again, I am so sorry that you had such terrible experiences. I hope that you have found a way to deal with with them, and are now in a much better place.
1
One only has to look at the line up of sad excuses for human beings at a republican debate to understand so much of what is wrong in America.
58
Women's issues aside, the other thing these TRAP laws represent, along with the anti-PP propaganda, is the growing and disturbing political power of certain religious groups here in the US.
Never mind the fact that the US was founded on a principle of separation of church and state, the past few decades have seen an unfortunate and I think surprising growth in the money, power and political influence of various right wing churches. Some are sufficiently fundamentalist to rival the worst in the Middle East, and equally irrational.
We have enough trouble separating money from politics without religious money.
We may need to rethink the tax status of religious groups that insist on meddling in other people's lives.
If they are going to act as political groups they maybe need to be treated the same as any other business or individual, and pay taxes.
Additionally, there ought to be a law against hectoring women seeking healthcare.
I don't see crowds of angry, obnoxious people outside the podiatrist.
People will claim that they are protesting a "holocaust" against "children."
But their assertion that embryos are "children" is religious in nature.
So, they need to keep their religious beliefs to themselves, or the law needs to defend innocent people seeking healthcare from these zealots. Some are violent. They have killed, burned, threatened, and maimed.
People who incite such activities (liars in the GOP for example) should be roundly censured.
Never mind the fact that the US was founded on a principle of separation of church and state, the past few decades have seen an unfortunate and I think surprising growth in the money, power and political influence of various right wing churches. Some are sufficiently fundamentalist to rival the worst in the Middle East, and equally irrational.
We have enough trouble separating money from politics without religious money.
We may need to rethink the tax status of religious groups that insist on meddling in other people's lives.
If they are going to act as political groups they maybe need to be treated the same as any other business or individual, and pay taxes.
Additionally, there ought to be a law against hectoring women seeking healthcare.
I don't see crowds of angry, obnoxious people outside the podiatrist.
People will claim that they are protesting a "holocaust" against "children."
But their assertion that embryos are "children" is religious in nature.
So, they need to keep their religious beliefs to themselves, or the law needs to defend innocent people seeking healthcare from these zealots. Some are violent. They have killed, burned, threatened, and maimed.
People who incite such activities (liars in the GOP for example) should be roundly censured.
118
The GOP will never agree to have churches taxed, although I agree with you on it. They recently passed a law to keep the IRS from taking any action to curtail the risible claim of the "social" benefit of political PACS. They don't want to have to release the names of their donors. No need to collect taxes from the GOP donor class; just tax the "little people".
2
This country was never founded on a principle separation of Church and State. President Jefferson used that expression in a speech, and people repeated it.
Per Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state#Jefferson_a...
I know many non-Christians (agnostics or atheists) who oppose abortion. They believe that a fetus is the same as a house which is destroyed just before it has been completed. Someone burns it to the ground. When the arsonist is caught, he says, "Hey, what's the big deal--it wasn't a house--it wasn't finished, so I am not obligated to pay for it or undergo any legal action." These people believe that the fetus is human and destroying it is murder.
By the way, many of these people are very liberal on most issues, but, when it comes to abortion, they look at the issue using common sense.
Per Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state#Jefferson_a...
I know many non-Christians (agnostics or atheists) who oppose abortion. They believe that a fetus is the same as a house which is destroyed just before it has been completed. Someone burns it to the ground. When the arsonist is caught, he says, "Hey, what's the big deal--it wasn't a house--it wasn't finished, so I am not obligated to pay for it or undergo any legal action." These people believe that the fetus is human and destroying it is murder.
By the way, many of these people are very liberal on most issues, but, when it comes to abortion, they look at the issue using common sense.
1
"By the way, many of these people are very liberal on most issues, but, when it comes to abortion, they look at the issue using common sense."
What a line! Honestly, you leave me speechless!
What a line! Honestly, you leave me speechless!
5
Men have no reproductive rights, unless you consider keeping it in your pants an option. If the woman wants an abortion she can get one, he has no say even as a husband. If the woman wants the baby he has no say even as a husband, and will be required to pay child support if he divorces or whether they are married. The law says that the baby delivered by the mother is the husband's child regardless of paternity.
I support financial abortion wherby a man can can divorce himself of all financial responsibility if he is not married to the mother and if he is married to the mother he shoulde be able to divorce himself of all financial responsibility for the child if a paternity test proves he is not the biological father, Equality has responsibilities and obligations and consequences for ones actions
I support financial abortion wherby a man can can divorce himself of all financial responsibility if he is not married to the mother and if he is married to the mother he shoulde be able to divorce himself of all financial responsibility for the child if a paternity test proves he is not the biological father, Equality has responsibilities and obligations and consequences for ones actions
3
@Pablo: Keeping it in your pants isn't your only option. You could purchase and use condoms. You could have a vasectomy. You could take responsibility for preventing pregnancy. That would take you a long way towards reaching what is apparently your major goal: avoiding responsibility for supporting children.
You could also resolve to be more discerning in deciding who to marry.
You could also resolve to be more discerning in deciding who to marry.
10
Well -- keeping it in his pants or wearing a condom. That's how he can avoid "financial responsibility".
9
The bleeding heart liberals are so concerned about women having control of their own bodies and keep shouting that there is a war against them. That is just plain nonsense. The war is on the innocent lives that are in the mother's womb who are not given a chance to come to full term. That is very bothersome to me as a a woman and extremely cruel and inhumane to the baby. I am glad the Republicans are standing up for the right to life and hope that one of them will be voted into office in 2016. They will continue to speak out for the most vulnerable among us and hopefully put an end to abortion which has cost us over 50 million innocent lives. I am glad that some Planned Parenthood clinics has been closed and hope they continue to shut down others. There are many pregnancy centers that can fill the void of PP facilities and do it very nicely.
3
I wish those who are "pro-life" would display the same passion for protecting those innocent lives taken through gun violence. Since PP cannot use federal funds for abortions, closing those facilities does more harm than good. How about we start closing gun shops and banning gun shows? Let's protect ALL lives, not just the ones pro-lifers deem important.
6
KMW:
Please give me a cogent explanation of the legal basis for you butting into the medical issues of a person you have no relationship with.
If you insist on butting into my imedical issues (and I am a guy so abortion is not likely to be one of those issues), I will DEMAND that you first show me all of YOUR medical records. Then, after I have reviewed those records, I will tell you to go pound sand.
If you have no business butting into my medical issues, why do you think you have the right to butt into the medical issues of my wife, my daughters, my daughter-in-law, and my granddaughters, not to mention all of my other more distant female relatives?
Give me ONE logical reason. I am not holding my breath waiting for your answer.
Please give me a cogent explanation of the legal basis for you butting into the medical issues of a person you have no relationship with.
If you insist on butting into my imedical issues (and I am a guy so abortion is not likely to be one of those issues), I will DEMAND that you first show me all of YOUR medical records. Then, after I have reviewed those records, I will tell you to go pound sand.
If you have no business butting into my medical issues, why do you think you have the right to butt into the medical issues of my wife, my daughters, my daughter-in-law, and my granddaughters, not to mention all of my other more distant female relatives?
Give me ONE logical reason. I am not holding my breath waiting for your answer.
13
I would respect your point more if you had kept it on religious grounds, because that is the nature of your argument. This is almost by definition not a liberal/conservative issue because the classic conservative position is less government interference in people's lives. Your religious belief is that embryos are people. I disagree. We have freedom of religion of religion in this country and are free to disagree. You can fight for your beliefs and I for mine, in and out of the political arena. But let's not pretend this is about political ideologies. It's about religion.
And you should be aware that your religious issue has been co-opted by cynical Republican politicians and strategists since 1973 in order to get you to become a one-issue voter who will vote against your own economic, health-care, and other interests in order to win on abortion. Which you never will because women will not cede rights over their lives and bodies to politicians --- or police officers should abortion be again criminalized. But because you believe in their sincerity, you keep voting in the party that -- through deregulation and an irrational economic policy called "trickle-down" a.k.a. supply side economics -- has thoroughly gutted the middle class in this country, making corporations "citizens" and creating a 1% that isn't pulling its fair share.
And you should be aware that your religious issue has been co-opted by cynical Republican politicians and strategists since 1973 in order to get you to become a one-issue voter who will vote against your own economic, health-care, and other interests in order to win on abortion. Which you never will because women will not cede rights over their lives and bodies to politicians --- or police officers should abortion be again criminalized. But because you believe in their sincerity, you keep voting in the party that -- through deregulation and an irrational economic policy called "trickle-down" a.k.a. supply side economics -- has thoroughly gutted the middle class in this country, making corporations "citizens" and creating a 1% that isn't pulling its fair share.
12
And again, the Republicans want government off our backs and into our uteri. It is spectacular hypocrisy. Once born, their 'pro-life' stance completely falls away as they oppose everything from food stamps to minimum wages. How do they live with these positions?
118
It ought to be proposed to the right-wingers that, ok, we'll go along with a total ban on abortion IF every single child born in this nation IS GUARANTEED proper housing, health care, nutrition, clothing, education and proper supervision until age 18. AND, the mother will be guaranteed any assistance she needs with her pregnancy, job, income, housing, re-training and transportation until at least six months after a healthy birth. AND, if we have to QUINTUPLE your taxes to pay for all this, so be it.
I think a mistake pro-choicers have made is failing to put a price tag on abortion restrictions. It's unconscionable to equate human life with dollars and sense. But if you did impose the cost right back on the folks who are screaming the loudest they would do an Olympic sprint off this hot potato.
I think a mistake pro-choicers have made is failing to put a price tag on abortion restrictions. It's unconscionable to equate human life with dollars and sense. But if you did impose the cost right back on the folks who are screaming the loudest they would do an Olympic sprint off this hot potato.
8
These steps to end abortion will not end abortion per se, they will end safe abortion.
There is a public health aspect to abortion in addition to the right to choose that is not adequately discussed. One in three American women has an abortion at some point in her reproductive life. The lack of safe services is unlikely to stop all of these women from getting an abortion. Those who can will travel to get safe services, those who can't will use coat-hangers.
Global data show that the more restrictive safe abortion services are, the higher the mortality rate from unsafe abortion. In countries (mostly African) where safe abortion services are highly restricted, unsafe abortion is one of the highest causes of maternal mortality.
There is a public health aspect to abortion in addition to the right to choose that is not adequately discussed. One in three American women has an abortion at some point in her reproductive life. The lack of safe services is unlikely to stop all of these women from getting an abortion. Those who can will travel to get safe services, those who can't will use coat-hangers.
Global data show that the more restrictive safe abortion services are, the higher the mortality rate from unsafe abortion. In countries (mostly African) where safe abortion services are highly restricted, unsafe abortion is one of the highest causes of maternal mortality.
52
As this article points out, these steps serve to protect the health of women undergoing abortions. Now, if you and others want to insist that these proposals serve only to drive up costs and drive abortion clinics out of business, that is your right. However, I would think that those who support abortion and care for the health and well-being of those women seeking abortions would support and applaud these efforts to make the experience as safe as possible.
Abortions decrease when adequate health services are provided for women. Eliminating services undermines the health of many women. Government control of a woman's body is as restrictive as taking away their right to vote. It is a return to second class status.
38
They want to outlaw sex for anything other than procreation. That's their underlying goal, bespeaking an unspoken hatred for women in any role other than as chattel to a man. They are our native born Taliban. Time to call them out for their barely concealed theocratic attempt to impose their orthodoxy on the rest of us. They think they mean well though- God told them to do it.
61
Constitutional rights for me (gun rights) but not for thee (abortion). Killing actual living, breathing, existing, fully-formed people is our right! Denying the bodily autonomy of living, breathing, existing, fully-formed people is also our right! Dead citizens are collateral damage. "Dead" fetuses deserve our utmost attention. Men love guns, women need abortions. Not too hard to see the genesis of our current paradigm.
33
Texas, the state that refused to expand Medicaid, allegedly on budgetary grounds, now claims it is placing more restrictions on abortion clinics out of concern for women's health.
Scalia, Thomas and Alito will probably vote to uphold the law, not because they believe the pathetic explanation the legislature has used to justify the law. No, they are looking for an excuse to join the effort to end access to abortions in the state.
If the state loses, the legislature will try again. Its leaders don't mind wasting money on laws designed to deny women freedom of choice. They just don't want to spend money to keep the population healthy. This is what passes for good government in my state.
Scalia, Thomas and Alito will probably vote to uphold the law, not because they believe the pathetic explanation the legislature has used to justify the law. No, they are looking for an excuse to join the effort to end access to abortions in the state.
If the state loses, the legislature will try again. Its leaders don't mind wasting money on laws designed to deny women freedom of choice. They just don't want to spend money to keep the population healthy. This is what passes for good government in my state.
33
When will this issue become human reproduction and not just a woman's right to choose. There are TWO sexes to this species. We need a more enlightened approach that gets away from children being chattel.
3
abortion rights and gun control both involve large portions of america who want it to happen but sit on the sidelines while opponents are vocal. It's interesting that the Freakanomics guys traced the reduction in crime to the legalization of abortion. http://freakonomics.com/2005/05/15/abortion-and-crime-who-should-you-bel...
Giving women more rights over when they have kids turns out not help just them and their kids, but the rest of us.
Giving women more rights over when they have kids turns out not help just them and their kids, but the rest of us.
16
Two independent abortion doctors in San Antonio opened an ambulatory surgery facility for abortions in order to comply with the law. It cost them $3 million, which they funded with a loan. Planned Parenthood reports annual revenues in excess of one billion dollars. I believe they operate a grand total of five surgical centers in Texas. Clearly, PP has the money to open many more ambulatory surgical facilities. I am against the Texas law and consider it game-playing. But I question whether PP is also playing games here at the expense of the women of Texas.
1
Why force health care providers to spend millions of dollars to build and ambulatory surgery center when it is not, in any way, medically necessary?
Do you think that the financial coercion will stop even if they are all built to spec? They will just come up with more unnecessary rules.
For the overwhelming majority of terminations, a basic medical office is appropriate.
For medical abortions, no procedure is done. Do you needs surgical equipment to take a few pills? Of course not. Do you even need a doctor or nurse present? Of course not.
Stop pretending this is anything but an attempt to bankrupt those who try to provide care. Stop pretending this is about health care or "protecting women".
Do you think that the financial coercion will stop even if they are all built to spec? They will just come up with more unnecessary rules.
For the overwhelming majority of terminations, a basic medical office is appropriate.
For medical abortions, no procedure is done. Do you needs surgical equipment to take a few pills? Of course not. Do you even need a doctor or nurse present? Of course not.
Stop pretending this is anything but an attempt to bankrupt those who try to provide care. Stop pretending this is about health care or "protecting women".
9
You put in the annual revenue and forgot the annual expenses. Let me help.
For 2013-2014, revenue reported was 1,303.4M. Annual expenses were 1,176,3M. Revenue is not profit.
https://www.plannedparenthood.org/files/6714/1996/2641/2013-2014_Annual_...
Every dollar spent to create "ambulatory surgery centers" that require equipment and facilities that are unnecessary for providing safe abortions is a dollar less that can be spent on the activities the eliminate the need for abortions in the first place, i.e. education and contraception. Not to mention the tests and procedures that save women's lives, like mammograms and STD treatments.
For 2013-2014, revenue reported was 1,303.4M. Annual expenses were 1,176,3M. Revenue is not profit.
https://www.plannedparenthood.org/files/6714/1996/2641/2013-2014_Annual_...
Every dollar spent to create "ambulatory surgery centers" that require equipment and facilities that are unnecessary for providing safe abortions is a dollar less that can be spent on the activities the eliminate the need for abortions in the first place, i.e. education and contraception. Not to mention the tests and procedures that save women's lives, like mammograms and STD treatments.
7
Planned Parenthood has its own agenda, and it is much more about self-aggrandizement than it is about reproductive rights. It amazes me that so many think that a billion dollar corporation, a lobbying power house and a large contributor of black money has a pure heart and is a true champion of the little guy. Planned Parenthood is to reproductive rights what the NRA is to gun rights. It's a champion of corporate interests, not individual rights. Whenever I attack PP, folks think I'm attacking reproductive rights. But it's just the opposite. The small independent clinics are the true heroes in this battle. Planned Parenthood battles for Planned Parenthood.
1
Reproductive rights.
Hey, you have the right to get pregnant anytime you like. Just quit killing your unborn children and quit expecting me to pay for the ignorant mistakes you made with your sexual freedom.
Hey, you have the right to get pregnant anytime you like. Just quit killing your unborn children and quit expecting me to pay for the ignorant mistakes you made with your sexual freedom.
3
It is not sexual freedom when rape is involved. What rapist uses a condom?
5
The woman got pregnant all by herself?
11
Disingenuous response since rape/incest are shown to be less than 1% of all reasons for an abortion.
1
I still have trouble wrapping my head around the indifference of courts to being lied to by state legislators. You would think there would be a penalty. Do the courts really have so little self respect?
12
Everyone knows the only purpose of TRAP laws is to make it harder for women to have an abortion. Everyone. Anyone who says otherwise is lying. No one is fooled by the absurd idea that these laws are for the woman's health.
The United States - specifically the Republican party - is on the wrong side of just about every issue: abortion, contraceptives, sex education, women's rights, health care, gun safety, climate change, education, energy, income inequality, the safety net, tax policy, voting rights, foreign policy - and on and on. It's been decades since they had anything positive to contribute to the welfare of the country.
The United States - specifically the Republican party - is on the wrong side of just about every issue: abortion, contraceptives, sex education, women's rights, health care, gun safety, climate change, education, energy, income inequality, the safety net, tax policy, voting rights, foreign policy - and on and on. It's been decades since they had anything positive to contribute to the welfare of the country.
34
Our law has always been very good at being blind to the obvious. So it is perfectly legal to close abortion clinics, as long as a suitable excuse is found, such as protecting the mother's health. All that is needed is experts who are willing to lie under oath (or brainwash themselves) because doing so will reduce the number of abortions. We have other experts who will do the same with respect to voter IDS in order to advance the chances of their party.
This sort of dishonesty is at the root of our inability to deal with the issues we need to address, and addressing these issues will be very difficult as long as such dishonesty is tolerated and even admired.
This sort of dishonesty is at the root of our inability to deal with the issues we need to address, and addressing these issues will be very difficult as long as such dishonesty is tolerated and even admired.
19
Unbelievable. All these efforts to discredit abortion rights, from the physically intrusive like vaginal probing for ultrasounds, to arbitrary clinic requirements, to arbitrary waiting and counseling requirements not needed for other medical procedures, to threatening a Government shutdown over Planned Parenthood, to lies about Planned Parenthood from GOP Presidential contenders - and no Republican momentum for the things which would reduce abortion demand, access to contraception (including insurance-covered contraception) and comprehensive Sex Ed.
66
It always amazes me that "Reproductive Rights" is just a euphemism for abortion. To me reproductive rights should include good gynecological care, pre- and post- natal care, and education on why they should not sell themselves short with casual sex.
In my mind, reproductive choices start between a man and a woman. Women should have the "reproductive right" and courage to say a resounding NO to sex without commitment to a life together. Men should behave more like true adult males and have the self-control to refrain from sex unless they are willing to support the new life they could create with a woman.
In cases of rape or incest, you cannot print what I think should happen to the perpetrators. As for the victims, they need special care. They should have access to ALL appropriate medical and psychological care.
In my mind, reproductive choices start between a man and a woman. Women should have the "reproductive right" and courage to say a resounding NO to sex without commitment to a life together. Men should behave more like true adult males and have the self-control to refrain from sex unless they are willing to support the new life they could create with a woman.
In cases of rape or incest, you cannot print what I think should happen to the perpetrators. As for the victims, they need special care. They should have access to ALL appropriate medical and psychological care.
8
Roe V. Wade has survived because the clever Justices, who wanted this legislation to stand the test of time, based the decision on the, right to privacy. Basing the medical decision on the right to privacy has made it impossible to overturn,
Just imagine if men where forced to forgo treatment for prostate cancer with the argument that it would kill life. Let the men suffer their cancer rather than stop life. Do we really want women to carry children at the mandate of the state? Uncle Sam says you must carry that baby.
Most women who have abortions do so for personal reasons. I see no benefit for a 17 year old without job skills to impoverish her life with the cost of a baby. Or a mother of 2 who is managing to work and pay daycare cost have a 3rd child forcing the family to poverty.
I read that in El Sabador even a miscarriage can lead to a prison sentence. Women are in prison for suspected abortions the laws are so strict there. The result there is women are in prison. This leaves their other children often living in the streets without their protections and earning ability.
Do we really want to put women in prison for medical procedures? Can we allow the medical privacy laws to protect these woman as our Supreme Court Justices intended.
Just imagine if men where forced to forgo treatment for prostate cancer with the argument that it would kill life. Let the men suffer their cancer rather than stop life. Do we really want women to carry children at the mandate of the state? Uncle Sam says you must carry that baby.
Most women who have abortions do so for personal reasons. I see no benefit for a 17 year old without job skills to impoverish her life with the cost of a baby. Or a mother of 2 who is managing to work and pay daycare cost have a 3rd child forcing the family to poverty.
I read that in El Sabador even a miscarriage can lead to a prison sentence. Women are in prison for suspected abortions the laws are so strict there. The result there is women are in prison. This leaves their other children often living in the streets without their protections and earning ability.
Do we really want to put women in prison for medical procedures? Can we allow the medical privacy laws to protect these woman as our Supreme Court Justices intended.
25
Women are human beings.
Tough concept I guess, especially, in Texas.
Tough concept I guess, especially, in Texas.
47
Women are human beings - and so are children whose principal protectors are women. And fetuses too would be human beings if we only allowed them to see the light of day.
Jan, it is not simple. Women have rights and so do the unborn.
Jan, it is not simple. Women have rights and so do the unborn.
5
Babies are human beings. Tough concept I guess, especially, in the United States.
4
@ Aruna, I find your defense of the unborn disingenuous. Have you ever been to Family Court? Have you seen what happens to actual living children that are unwanted? Child abuse is appalling. There are millions of living children in foster care - why is the "pro-life" movement silent when it comes to them and their need for a home? Not every woman wants to be a mother or should be a mother. Bask in the glory of your own ovaries and get your nose out of mine.
11
The board can try and stoke the emotions of people by writing about this but rather than respond to the column I prefer to refer this way
CBS News/New York Times Poll Dec 4-8 2015
"What do you think is the most important issue facing the country today?
1) Terrorism 14%
2) The economy, jobs 12%
3) Guns, gun policy 6%
4) Immigration, illegal immigration 5%
5) Islamic extremism 5%
6) Crime, violence 4%
7) Health Care 3%
8) Homeland security 3%
9) Other 41%
10) Unsure/no answer 4%
ABC News/Washington Post Poll Which is the single most important issue in your choice of president? Is it the economy? Health Care? Immigration issue? Tax policy? or the threat of terrorism?
1) Economy 33%
2) Terrorism 28%
3) Health Care 13%
4) Immigration 10%
5) Tax Policy 5%
6) Other 1%
7) Any 2 or more 9%
8) None 1%
9) Unsure 1%
Where are reproductive rights? Given this editorial one would believe it would be on the mind of most Americans. But's its not. If the Times and the Washington Post thought it warranted being listed they would have done so?
The board will talk about the Court in this manner yet they forget that the Court overturned DOMA, affirmed ObamaCare twice, Gay marriage. Then the Court is given all kinds of accolades yet when a decision goes against liberals want they smear Alito, Scalia or Thomas, But I would ask any of you who question they're intelligence, aren't they are the court and where are you? When you can match their accomplishments then talk smack
CBS News/New York Times Poll Dec 4-8 2015
"What do you think is the most important issue facing the country today?
1) Terrorism 14%
2) The economy, jobs 12%
3) Guns, gun policy 6%
4) Immigration, illegal immigration 5%
5) Islamic extremism 5%
6) Crime, violence 4%
7) Health Care 3%
8) Homeland security 3%
9) Other 41%
10) Unsure/no answer 4%
ABC News/Washington Post Poll Which is the single most important issue in your choice of president? Is it the economy? Health Care? Immigration issue? Tax policy? or the threat of terrorism?
1) Economy 33%
2) Terrorism 28%
3) Health Care 13%
4) Immigration 10%
5) Tax Policy 5%
6) Other 1%
7) Any 2 or more 9%
8) None 1%
9) Unsure 1%
Where are reproductive rights? Given this editorial one would believe it would be on the mind of most Americans. But's its not. If the Times and the Washington Post thought it warranted being listed they would have done so?
The board will talk about the Court in this manner yet they forget that the Court overturned DOMA, affirmed ObamaCare twice, Gay marriage. Then the Court is given all kinds of accolades yet when a decision goes against liberals want they smear Alito, Scalia or Thomas, But I would ask any of you who question they're intelligence, aren't they are the court and where are you? When you can match their accomplishments then talk smack
3
For most of this I fault the Republicans who largely sponsor these laws, but there is blame to be shared.
Let's be honest here. The national Democratic Party abandoned Howard Dean's 50 State strategy and we have seen Republicans take over state governments where they have not held power in at least a generation. Obama, who benefitted greatly from the strategy, has presided over a party that walked away from it and we have seen election after election where Democrats lose Legislature after Legislature, and majorities in both Houses of Congress.
This night, the brilliant people of the DNC are burying the Debate on the last Saturday before Christmas to minimize people seeing anyone who might challenge Hillary as she is coronated,democracy be damned. Polling shows us Bernie Sanders will have coattails in the general and Hillary will not- implying a choice between President Clinton with a Republican Congress and President Sanders with a real shot a Democratic Congress. The down-ticket state elections would also suffer.
To reverse the assault on Women's access to reproductive care we need more than just a President- we need a Congress and Legislatures. Many women seem committed to elect Hillary regardless and the result may be a President with no Congress to work with and an increasingly hostile set of state laws governing abortion services. The numbers do not lie- if Hillary is the nominee the status quo will continue to erode women's access to abortion services.
Let's be honest here. The national Democratic Party abandoned Howard Dean's 50 State strategy and we have seen Republicans take over state governments where they have not held power in at least a generation. Obama, who benefitted greatly from the strategy, has presided over a party that walked away from it and we have seen election after election where Democrats lose Legislature after Legislature, and majorities in both Houses of Congress.
This night, the brilliant people of the DNC are burying the Debate on the last Saturday before Christmas to minimize people seeing anyone who might challenge Hillary as she is coronated,democracy be damned. Polling shows us Bernie Sanders will have coattails in the general and Hillary will not- implying a choice between President Clinton with a Republican Congress and President Sanders with a real shot a Democratic Congress. The down-ticket state elections would also suffer.
To reverse the assault on Women's access to reproductive care we need more than just a President- we need a Congress and Legislatures. Many women seem committed to elect Hillary regardless and the result may be a President with no Congress to work with and an increasingly hostile set of state laws governing abortion services. The numbers do not lie- if Hillary is the nominee the status quo will continue to erode women's access to abortion services.
11
posting by jroll:
I agree with this analysis. But, why do you say if Hillary is elected, "the access to abortion services will continue to erode, instead of "if a Democrat is elected, access to abortion services will continue to erode"?
I agree with this analysis. But, why do you say if Hillary is elected, "the access to abortion services will continue to erode, instead of "if a Democrat is elected, access to abortion services will continue to erode"?
2
The polling shows Hillary winning a close election with few coat tails. The same polling shows Senator Sanders bringing a larger base turnout that will elect more down ticket Democrats.
That would imply that chances to protect and restore Women's reproductive rights would be higher with Bernie. Liberals and Progressives ( they are not the same ) need more seats in Congress and in State governments.
That would imply that chances to protect and restore Women's reproductive rights would be higher with Bernie. Liberals and Progressives ( they are not the same ) need more seats in Congress and in State governments.
1
Unborn children are celebrating.
3
No sex education.
No contraception.
No abortions.
No healthcare.
No jobs.
No ideas.
No respect for women or their bodies.
Just forced pregnancies and good old fashioned Christian Sharia Law.
Republicans really know how to treat a woman.
No contraception.
No abortions.
No healthcare.
No jobs.
No ideas.
No respect for women or their bodies.
Just forced pregnancies and good old fashioned Christian Sharia Law.
Republicans really know how to treat a woman.
475
The word "conservative" has become its oxymoron under the current GOP. As turnabout is fair play, I think Republicans--men and women alike--deserve to be tarred with a very offensive four-letter word beginning with C, especially applicable to the men who want to control women.
5
You fail to note that the beings which are being killed are not Republicans. Nearly half of them are female and more than half would be Democrats if allowed to live.
An attack on Republicans has NO relevance to the question of whether the unborn have rights.
An attack on Republicans has NO relevance to the question of whether the unborn have rights.
3
Aruna, abortion doesn't kill "beings". It removes a cluster of cells from a woman's body. There is no "being". But don't let science and facts get in the way of your starry-eyed thinking.
12
Roe v Wade has been rendered practically moot in many states with these draconian regulations. I believe Roe is poised to receive a fatal blow in the upcoming SCOTUS Texas case. Some of the justices on the court have been waiting their entire careers for this opportunity. Kennedy has shown he loses little sleep over a paternalistic approach to reproductive rights. Roberts occasionally ignores party dogma and vetoes sweeping changes to society, but there's no guarantee.
I think pro choice strategists need to be assuming the worst and they should be preparing contingency plans.
We need charitable organizations who can help ferry women from Texas to more friendly states so they can receive reproductive healthcare. An Underground Railroad, if you will.
Once reproductive choice is defeated in the south, they'll be setting their sights on blue states. We need to draw a line in the sand, and perhaps a chance to get other states in trouble on 14th Amendment grounds. I would love to see pro choice states adopt a new amendment to their state constitutions. "The pursuit of economic stability being necessary to the security of a free citizenry, a woman's right to terminate her pregnancy shall not be infringed".
I think pro choice strategists need to be assuming the worst and they should be preparing contingency plans.
We need charitable organizations who can help ferry women from Texas to more friendly states so they can receive reproductive healthcare. An Underground Railroad, if you will.
Once reproductive choice is defeated in the south, they'll be setting their sights on blue states. We need to draw a line in the sand, and perhaps a chance to get other states in trouble on 14th Amendment grounds. I would love to see pro choice states adopt a new amendment to their state constitutions. "The pursuit of economic stability being necessary to the security of a free citizenry, a woman's right to terminate her pregnancy shall not be infringed".
84
To The Buddy in Astoria
"An Underground Railroad, if you will." Yes, I most definitely will.
Speaking as a pro-choice Black woman: beautifully said.
Submitted 12/20/15@3:23 a.m. e.s.t.
"An Underground Railroad, if you will." Yes, I most definitely will.
Speaking as a pro-choice Black woman: beautifully said.
Submitted 12/20/15@3:23 a.m. e.s.t.
2
The fact that so many states have passed so many laws restricting abortion should tell us something about the lack of support for unrestricted abortion in this country.
But the problem originated in 1973, when the Court found a constitutional right to abortion, notwithstanding the Constitution's silence on that issue. So we shouldn't be surprised that the Court will continually have to define, and redefine, what that decision means. At some point, I am sure, the Court will have to decide whether abortions for sex selection can be restricted. What does the Constitution say about that?
The best solution would be for the Court to reverse Roe and throw the issue back to the legislative branch. Over the years surveys have consistently shown that a minority supports unrestricted abortion, and a similar sized minority supports a total prohibition. The majority of Americans support abortion with some restrictions. Putting conservative lawmakers in the position of actually having to decide what restrictions are appropriate would put them in a very uncomfortable position. Despite advocating for a prohibition on abortion, with very few exceptions any lawmaker who voted for a total prohibition would never win an election.
But the problem originated in 1973, when the Court found a constitutional right to abortion, notwithstanding the Constitution's silence on that issue. So we shouldn't be surprised that the Court will continually have to define, and redefine, what that decision means. At some point, I am sure, the Court will have to decide whether abortions for sex selection can be restricted. What does the Constitution say about that?
The best solution would be for the Court to reverse Roe and throw the issue back to the legislative branch. Over the years surveys have consistently shown that a minority supports unrestricted abortion, and a similar sized minority supports a total prohibition. The majority of Americans support abortion with some restrictions. Putting conservative lawmakers in the position of actually having to decide what restrictions are appropriate would put them in a very uncomfortable position. Despite advocating for a prohibition on abortion, with very few exceptions any lawmaker who voted for a total prohibition would never win an election.
7
I fail to see how sex selection is a factor. Under Roe V Wade, women have the right to choose abortion regardless of the circumstances. Why would the Supreme Court take an interest in a woman's reasons for not continuing a pregnancy? It is entirely her business.
4
"The fact that so many states have passed so many laws restricting abortion should tell us something about the lack of support for unrestricted abortion in this country."
No, it just demonstrates the stranglehold the religious right has on our politics. It also tells us how many young people (and others) are not yet aware of how bad the threat to their reproductive rights has become.
"The majority of Americans support abortion with some restrictions."
Roe v Wade is "abortion with some restrictions" and the majority of Americans support that ruling. We don't have "unrestricted abortion".
"Putting conservative lawmakers in the position of actually having to decide what restrictions are appropriate would put them in a very uncomfortable position."
If those lawmakers would get out of our bedrooms and the offices of our doctors, they would not be put in that position.
Prohibiting abortion in certain conditions - like sex selection, for instance - is perilous. There is no way to QUICKLY get such a charge through the courts, so the charge would stop or delay an abortion even if medically necessary. Anyone could level the charge - even a meddling stranger.
"The best solution would be for the Court to reverse Roe ...."
Oh great - back to pre-1973 and whole hospital wards dedicated to women trying to survive botched abortions. ER doctors wince just thinking about that possibility.
Please study a bit of history. Those who don't are doomed to repeat it!!
No, it just demonstrates the stranglehold the religious right has on our politics. It also tells us how many young people (and others) are not yet aware of how bad the threat to their reproductive rights has become.
"The majority of Americans support abortion with some restrictions."
Roe v Wade is "abortion with some restrictions" and the majority of Americans support that ruling. We don't have "unrestricted abortion".
"Putting conservative lawmakers in the position of actually having to decide what restrictions are appropriate would put them in a very uncomfortable position."
If those lawmakers would get out of our bedrooms and the offices of our doctors, they would not be put in that position.
Prohibiting abortion in certain conditions - like sex selection, for instance - is perilous. There is no way to QUICKLY get such a charge through the courts, so the charge would stop or delay an abortion even if medically necessary. Anyone could level the charge - even a meddling stranger.
"The best solution would be for the Court to reverse Roe ...."
Oh great - back to pre-1973 and whole hospital wards dedicated to women trying to survive botched abortions. ER doctors wince just thinking about that possibility.
Please study a bit of history. Those who don't are doomed to repeat it!!
11
Not sure you are correct there. Many lawmakers in conservative states are passing these laws and I'm pretty sure they would argue for a ban on abortion, with perhaps and exception for race or inces, and still win elections.
2
The GOP keeps needing scapegoats to rally their ceaselessly mean base. They are never motivated by the common good. Planned Parenthood has been around a hundred years, had the Bushes on its Board, was supported by practically everyone including most Republicans, until it ran into the usual old guy buzzsaw.
The demonizing from cynical politicians and and the pulpit is shameful. I am glad to see an editorial bringing some light to the issue. That kid that made the phoney film about "baby parts" should be hauled in from of Congress, not given a pass. The representative in Missouri may have the right approach- make men wait 72 hours for gun sales, watch a film about gun deaths, etc. I have even heard legislation I think in Nevada for a wait time for Viagra with a doctor's visit mandatory.
It should not be easy to keep lying about women's healthcare and getting away with it. The propaganda is motivating men like Robert Dear to commit domestic terrorism at clinics and emboldening the same old behavior from cynical political types.
The demonizing from cynical politicians and and the pulpit is shameful. I am glad to see an editorial bringing some light to the issue. That kid that made the phoney film about "baby parts" should be hauled in from of Congress, not given a pass. The representative in Missouri may have the right approach- make men wait 72 hours for gun sales, watch a film about gun deaths, etc. I have even heard legislation I think in Nevada for a wait time for Viagra with a doctor's visit mandatory.
It should not be easy to keep lying about women's healthcare and getting away with it. The propaganda is motivating men like Robert Dear to commit domestic terrorism at clinics and emboldening the same old behavior from cynical political types.
147
I can't help but note that the first seven comments posted are all by men.
Sigh...
I worried about abortion rights for a long time. Wrote letters, sent money to Planned Parenthood. But I'm older now. Abortion is not an issue for me personally anymore. And I have no daughters.
Quiet frankly, unless more young women start making themselves heard in the public sphere and the voting booth, it looks like abortion rights are in trouble, and soon.
Sigh...
I worried about abortion rights for a long time. Wrote letters, sent money to Planned Parenthood. But I'm older now. Abortion is not an issue for me personally anymore. And I have no daughters.
Quiet frankly, unless more young women start making themselves heard in the public sphere and the voting booth, it looks like abortion rights are in trouble, and soon.
200
Those, those....those MEN! Last time I checked, a female's vote counted just as much as a male, and there are more females of voting age. And here's a news flash: more than a few women are most assuredly not pro-choice. It's a shame their vote counts as much as yours.
2
These various state restrictions are so obviously an attempt to eliminate the choice of abortion for all but the wealthy enough to travel for one. How this confluence of a religious ideology should be forced upon each and every woman in our nation is absolutely wrong. Those disagreeing with choice need to mind their own business about anyone else's. If the Supremes can't see beyond this outrageous discrimination against women, they do not deserve their positions.
72
These people are not Republicans nor conservatives They are REACTIONARIES and a danger to society.
51
They are Theocrats.
4
It seems inconsistent that some antiabortion politicians are also anti-health care progams, anti-education programs, and anti-government. When a child emerges from the womb, is it on its own?
80
To Meryl G.
You KNOW what the answer is to your (rhetorical?) question--a very excruciating yes.
Submitted 12/20/15@3:32 a.m. e.s.t.
You KNOW what the answer is to your (rhetorical?) question--a very excruciating yes.
Submitted 12/20/15@3:32 a.m. e.s.t.
4
Yes. Hence "forced birth" rather than "pro-child."
6
Chris, another term is "compulsory pregnancy ".
2
We need an equal rights amendment for women.
Women must be allowed to control our own bodies. Our health care can't be the target of religious and political groups and especially, men.
Equal pay is important but even more so, the most basic right of all - having the right to manage our lives. The idea that we must argue for the right even to control our own bodies, in 2015, in the West, is appalling!
It's simple: people who can't control their bodies and their lives are less than equal. Being forced to reproduce puts a woman in the position of a slave.
Women must be allowed to control our own bodies. Our health care can't be the target of religious and political groups and especially, men.
Equal pay is important but even more so, the most basic right of all - having the right to manage our lives. The idea that we must argue for the right even to control our own bodies, in 2015, in the West, is appalling!
It's simple: people who can't control their bodies and their lives are less than equal. Being forced to reproduce puts a woman in the position of a slave.
171
While I agree, along with this newly found right we NEED RESPONSIBILITY also. NO MORE tax payer funding!
"Women must be allowed to control our own bodies"
I recently met with a woman who is 8 weeks pregnant and refers to "the baby". The baby has a heartbeat of 180 per minute.
Is that baby just a lump of flesh to be "disposed of at will"? Is it really a "part" of the woman's body?
I hope you will think about this difficult issue.
"Bad Republicans, good Democrats" is too simple an answer to a complex question.
I recently met with a woman who is 8 weeks pregnant and refers to "the baby". The baby has a heartbeat of 180 per minute.
Is that baby just a lump of flesh to be "disposed of at will"? Is it really a "part" of the woman's body?
I hope you will think about this difficult issue.
"Bad Republicans, good Democrats" is too simple an answer to a complex question.
4
As you know full well, TaxPayer, by law federal tax dollars cannot be used to pay for abortions except in some exceptions: in cases of rape or incest, as well as when a pregnant woman's life is endangered by a physical disorder, illness, or injury. Only 17 states allow Medicaid funds to pay for abortions, 4 voluntarily and 13 because those state Supreme Courts have ruled that denying such funding violates that state's constitution.
So unless you live in one of those 17 states, your tax dollars do not pay for abortions except in very special circumstances. Would you really want a 13 year old girl to be forced to bear a child because she was raped by a family member, or by someone else? Or to continue a pregnancy that endangers her life? If so, shame on you.
So unless you live in one of those 17 states, your tax dollars do not pay for abortions except in very special circumstances. Would you really want a 13 year old girl to be forced to bear a child because she was raped by a family member, or by someone else? Or to continue a pregnancy that endangers her life? If so, shame on you.
11
And a pregnant 12 year old in NYC can get an abortion without parental consent. That seems kind of radical to me also.
8
That pregnant 12-year-old may have been raped by her father.
8
"And a pregnant 12 year old in NYC can get an abortion without parental consent. That seems kind of radical to me also."
Really? The only 12-year-olds that are likely to do this are
(1) afraid that the parents will forbid the abortion,
(2) afraid that the parents would kick the child out of the home,
(3) afraid of violent punishment or the loss of parental love, or
(4) unable to even locate a competent parent.
For a 12-year-old a pregnancy is high risk. If the child doesn't fear the parents or fear that they will take away her choice, she is unlikely not to include them in her decisions.
Being beaten, pregnant, and on the streets would be terrifying for an adult let alone a child, but it DOES happen to both.
Really? The only 12-year-olds that are likely to do this are
(1) afraid that the parents will forbid the abortion,
(2) afraid that the parents would kick the child out of the home,
(3) afraid of violent punishment or the loss of parental love, or
(4) unable to even locate a competent parent.
For a 12-year-old a pregnancy is high risk. If the child doesn't fear the parents or fear that they will take away her choice, she is unlikely not to include them in her decisions.
Being beaten, pregnant, and on the streets would be terrifying for an adult let alone a child, but it DOES happen to both.
21
According to whom?
3
I suppose I should be furious about all this regression in women's rights. But mostly I am just astonished and baffled. Almost fifty years after I worked toward more self-determination for women, we are moving backward toward more societal repression and control of women.
When women cannot control their own fertility, it is a bad thing for them and their families. But it is also bad for the society they live in, and it is certainly bad for children.
There are powerful, influential, educated people participating in this ugly movement. They know the punitive restrictions they are enacting will likely never affect the women in their own wealthy families; their hypocrisy gives them a lot to answer for.
When women cannot control their own fertility, it is a bad thing for them and their families. But it is also bad for the society they live in, and it is certainly bad for children.
There are powerful, influential, educated people participating in this ugly movement. They know the punitive restrictions they are enacting will likely never affect the women in their own wealthy families; their hypocrisy gives them a lot to answer for.
398
...and, hopefully, lead to a revolution against them.
1
You make it sound like chastity belts are in use again... Women do have control of their fertility, and no laws or proposals of legislation attempt to block anything such.
Fertility and abortion are physically two different matters. The laws limiting the use on abortion to terminate a pregnancy and life have nothing to do with fertility and in sum cases abortions can be harmful to a woman from ever having a child if she ever chooses.
Is there a difference when an unborn child is about after the 2nd trimester than leaving a 2 day old infant in a dumpster?
Fertility and abortion are physically two different matters. The laws limiting the use on abortion to terminate a pregnancy and life have nothing to do with fertility and in sum cases abortions can be harmful to a woman from ever having a child if she ever chooses.
Is there a difference when an unborn child is about after the 2nd trimester than leaving a 2 day old infant in a dumpster?
1
Unfortunately, these powerful, influential, educated people are members of Congress and legistlatures and are mostly men. And men don't like to take responsibility. They prefer control over responsibility. We must speak up and publicly hold them accountable over and over.
1
Let's hope, as you do, that the Supreme Court sees these anti-abortion, TRAP, laws for what they are--unconstitutional. Unfortunately, voters in states like Texas routinely support anti-choice candidates electing Gregg Abbott governor in the recent election after he slimed his opponent, Wendy Davis, as "abortion Barbie." To me, these states are not only violating Roe v. Wade, but also the first amendment to the Constitution by allowing the religious views of some to govern all women.
121
These haters call themselves "christian." Jesus would disagree. And they should be the last people to point the finger at Shariah Law, because they are forcing a version of it on people who don't share their beliefs.
8
Your editorial teems with misleading euphemisms, such as "right to choose" (translation: right to kill) and "their own bodies" (translation: the bodies and lives of pre-birth children). Might not "reproductive rights" better be used to mean the right of the unborn child to protection?
8
I find your post quite misleading. A fetus is not a pre-born child; it is not a child at all. It doesn't become a child until after it is born. A fetus does not have personhood and it does not have rights. It is not a legal entity. Neither parent can claim a standard deduction for a fetus on their income taxes, nor is a fetus counted as a person by census takers. Please quit trying to confuse everyone.
24
Your post is disturbing in its ignorance of humanity. Women are not vessels for male seed. Women are human beings, with rights to self determination. Women are not slave, chattel or brood mares. Translation - women are not on this planet to simply produce more people. Right to choose is natural, God-given right, and it is enshrined in the Constitution - the right to the pursuit of happiness. Seeing as the medical - translation: scientific and proven by facts - definition of life is the ability to survive independently, the term of 28 weeks gestation is correct. Therefore, the term "pre-birth" is a corruption of medicine, science and common sense. The term "pre-death" however is accurate, because while not all fetuses survive to term, all live born infants do die. Therefore, adding to the population who are pre-death is what you are really advocating, if you were to be completely honest.
17
To Fabius C.
Not so fast, please. "Right to choose" means exactly that. A woman has the right to choose whether to continue or terminate her pregnancy. With respects, why are so many people selective when it comes to respecting what that means, simply to support their arguments against--yes, womens' decisions re: our own bodies?
I don't understand why so many seem to feel threatened about a woman's right to make autonomous decisions? Are women simply handmaidens?
And frankly, with respects, how does the decision of a complete stranger directly and personally affect the person who objects? It's intrusive, at best.
Submitted 12/20/15@3:50 a.m. e.s.t.
Not so fast, please. "Right to choose" means exactly that. A woman has the right to choose whether to continue or terminate her pregnancy. With respects, why are so many people selective when it comes to respecting what that means, simply to support their arguments against--yes, womens' decisions re: our own bodies?
I don't understand why so many seem to feel threatened about a woman's right to make autonomous decisions? Are women simply handmaidens?
And frankly, with respects, how does the decision of a complete stranger directly and personally affect the person who objects? It's intrusive, at best.
Submitted 12/20/15@3:50 a.m. e.s.t.
18
The forced birthers would like to harken back to a time when abortion was illegal. They fail to realize that abortion has always been with us. Women have always gotten abortions, whether they were back alley or done by the women themselves. Abortion is nothing new. The rabid forced birthers view women as less than, less than men and less than fetuses. A cluster of cells is more important than the human being that is their host. Let them pass all their draconian laws, women will continue to get abortions - that will never change. What will change is that women will be dying from abortions. But I seriously doubt that the bible-thumping forced birther crowd cares about that. Their hatred of women and their need to control women is simply over the top. After reading this article I went online and made a nice donation (one of many this year) to Planned Parenthood. I suggest that anyone who loves and values women do the same.
256
To Moira,
I've just read your comment and your suggestion. You got a deal. I've donated once already this year and my budget is tight, but I will FIND a bit more for another donation.
Submitted 12/20/15@3:55 a.m. e.s.t.
I've just read your comment and your suggestion. You got a deal. I've donated once already this year and my budget is tight, but I will FIND a bit more for another donation.
Submitted 12/20/15@3:55 a.m. e.s.t.
6
I suggest anyone who loves babies and values life in all human forms donate to their favorite pro-life group. I just did and I guess my previous donations have made a big difference in saving innocent human lives. As a woman, i do not feel there is a war on me or any other woman. Babies are more than a cluster of cells as you state and deserve to be given a chance in this world. I am glad there are people out there who feel live is as important as I do and continue to stand up for this very important cause.
2
Even better- next time you make a donation to PP make it in honor of an archaic GOP Representative and have a gift card sent to their office.
13
I disagree with the majority of today's Republican party on virtually every stand they take. These stands may be applauded by the Tea Party or Evangelicals, but I firmly believe they are wrong for the country.
It's hard to believe that I used to BE a Republican. However, I didn't leave the party; they left me.
It's hard to believe that I used to BE a Republican. However, I didn't leave the party; they left me.
84
To BNYC,
Wow...I can feel your frustration, etc., and I respect your candor. Well said and whether your a Democrat, Independent or whatever, it's nice to have you and I promise you'll NEVER be alone.
Submitted 12/20/15@4:03 a.m. e.s.t.
Wow...I can feel your frustration, etc., and I respect your candor. Well said and whether your a Democrat, Independent or whatever, it's nice to have you and I promise you'll NEVER be alone.
Submitted 12/20/15@4:03 a.m. e.s.t.
2
I agree with the Republicans on almost every issue but especially this one. Where have the democrats been on this issue? Silent of course.
2
American women should take a good hard look at what is happening in the Middle East. You think your rights cannot be rolled back? In the 1940s and 50s Baghdad was a free, cosmopolitan city; Iran promoted women's rights; and the abaya was outlawed in Turkey. Give an inch to religious fundamentalism and it'll take a mile. Do you really want to go back to being brood mares with no control over your life? It'll happen and sooner than you think if you buy into the ridiculous rhetoric of "rights of the unborn", which is a thin disguise of a particular (and frankly absurd) religious belief. I know there are many women who support the so-called "pro-life" movement. So what? There are women in Da'esh too. Eventually they may regret their willing enslavement to a misogynistic religious ideology but by this time it'll be too late for them - and unfortunately, for other women as well.
326
To Mor,
Excuse the pun, but there's really no other way for to say this:
Preach it, baby! Preach!
Submitted 12/20/15@4:05 a.m.
Excuse the pun, but there's really no other way for to say this:
Preach it, baby! Preach!
Submitted 12/20/15@4:05 a.m.
4
When abortion first became legal in New York,, which was before 'Roe v. Wade', abortions were done in hospitals. It was much better than the free standing planned parenthood clinic, because there were no protesters. It wasn't fraught. That's because in a large general hospital, no-one knows who's coming for an abortion. No-one even knows, when a woman enters the hospital, if she's going to ob/gyn or some other department. And that's how it should be. Let's return to when it was no-one's business why you were seeking medical treatment. We don't need Planned Parenthood, which has become a impediment to a woman's right to choose to end a pregnancy. Let return to reproductive care in the context of a hospital or general clinic.
19
"We don't need Planned Parenthood, which has become a impediment to a woman's right to choose to end a pregnancy. Let return to reproductive care in the context of a hospital or general clinic."
I certainly don't believe that Planned Parenthood is an impediment to a woman's right to choose!! In addition, even if abortion care returns to hospitals or general clinics, we still need all the other medical services that Planned Parenthood provides.
I certainly don't believe that Planned Parenthood is an impediment to a woman's right to choose!! In addition, even if abortion care returns to hospitals or general clinics, we still need all the other medical services that Planned Parenthood provides.
14
Except that there are fewer hospitals than there are clinics. Further, a women seeking an abortion shouldn't have to take up a finite space in a hospital if the procedure doesn't require it. The solution to anti-choice harassment isn't to close down Planned Parenthood facilities and it isn't those facilities that became an "impediment to a woman's right to choose to end a pregnancy" but the anti-choice militants.
9
Ms. Wolf makes an excellent point about a patient's right to privacy, but Planned Parenthood provides a broad range of health services - cancer screening, GYN exams, etc. (often to under served groups). She offers a dangerous and reckless plan, however, to subject such a critical right of all American women to the implied safety of anonymity.
No Ms. Wolf, your intentions are noted, but this is not what most women and their families have fought to protect for more than 40 years - the pseudo safety of secrecy & cover. That would imply weakness & shame. We're better than that. We must confront religious extremism from the "Christian" right at all costs and in full view of our neighbors - at home and abroad.
No Ms. Wolf, your intentions are noted, but this is not what most women and their families have fought to protect for more than 40 years - the pseudo safety of secrecy & cover. That would imply weakness & shame. We're better than that. We must confront religious extremism from the "Christian" right at all costs and in full view of our neighbors - at home and abroad.
10
The war on reproductive rights is evidence for the importance of voting in EVERY election. These efforts are led by rightwing legislatures and signed off by rightwing governors. Only showing up every 4 years to vote for president doesn't stop this march backward.
85
We should look to our northern neighbor for guidance on issues such as abortion. In Canada, abortion is treated like any other medical procedure, and not governed by criminal laws, but by provincial and medical regulations.
In Canada, abortion is a decision made by a woman with her doctor. Unfortunately, politicians, as they often do, make things difficult for people, particualrly women, in the United States on issues such as abortion.
It is interesting that you quote Mississippi governor Phil Bryant on the abortion issue. He is pro life when it comes to fetuses, but not so when it comes to executing people convicted of crimes. This quote from Bryant about the execution of Henry Curtis Jackson Jr. pretty much says it all about the man:
"I am deeply touched by the requests for clemency by two of his sisters and his brother-in-law. One of these sisters was a stabbing victim, and both of the sisters are mothers of the murdered children. However, as governor, I have the duty to see that justice is carried out and that the law is faithfully executed. My thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their loved ones.”
In Canada, abortion is a decision made by a woman with her doctor. Unfortunately, politicians, as they often do, make things difficult for people, particualrly women, in the United States on issues such as abortion.
It is interesting that you quote Mississippi governor Phil Bryant on the abortion issue. He is pro life when it comes to fetuses, but not so when it comes to executing people convicted of crimes. This quote from Bryant about the execution of Henry Curtis Jackson Jr. pretty much says it all about the man:
"I am deeply touched by the requests for clemency by two of his sisters and his brother-in-law. One of these sisters was a stabbing victim, and both of the sisters are mothers of the murdered children. However, as governor, I have the duty to see that justice is carried out and that the law is faithfully executed. My thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their loved ones.”
24
So often in these comments you read statements like "Why can't we have *(you name it)* like they do in Western Europe?" Abortion laws in most of Western Europe would draw the same opprobrium as do the laws in Texas and other states mentioned in this editorial. Abortion on demand in Europe is seriously restricted compared to what the Times editors think is reasonable.
Just sayin'....
Just sayin'....
6
I don't know the abortion statistics for Western Europe handy but I do know Western European women can buy contraceptives without a prescription and at an affordable price, including the morning-after pills.
15
Women don't have big money backers. We can see how this translates into hate legislation that goes un-noticed. In todays political atmosphere rights need monetary backing and the media that comes with it. Women just don't have that. Ruth Ginsberg has illustrated this her disents but the majority monetized right says and does otherwise. Vote and vote Democrats.
38
This will hurt the Republicans in the 2016 elections. Women will remember. Count on it.
45
As a woman, the Republicans have my vote and one reason is their right-to-life stand. I am not alone in my opinion and feel abortion is the murder of innocent human life in the mother's womb. They are standing up for life.
2
When my 10 week developing embryo's heart stopped beating, but stayed attached to my internal organs and poured my blood all over the bathroom floor until I went into shock, passed out and needed a blood transfusion, whose life was at risk? There was no more "baby" to save. There never was, there was a glob of cells not even as big as a grape. That gets precedence over a living mother of 2 kids?
18
And once the "innocent life in the mother's womb" gets born? What then, KMW? Are you willing to provide for the mother and the child, no questions asked? Are you willing to protect them from random gun violence? Provide decent education for the "innocent life" out of the womb, too? What are you going to say to the parents of the children slaughtered while at school by another defender of the right to life?
15
The Supreme Court fully realizes that abortion laws are an assault on women's bodies. Their silence shows that the majority of the Supreme Court justices support this sad effort to extract women from the workplace by forcing on them the burden of uncontrolled reproduction.
54
"Laws like this — known as TRAP laws, for targeted regulation of abortion providers — have sprouted up in dozens of states as abortion opponents test the limits of the Supreme Court’s vague standard on abortion rights, which asks whether a restriction poses an “undue burden” to a woman’s right to choose."
The only TRAP set by these laws is that forcing women to bear children conceived during rape, incest, or relations with an abusive husband or partner, or a drunken date too inept to use protection.
These states are daring SCOTUS to overturn Roe vs Wade, which doesn't bode well for reproductive freedom: several justices are staunch Catholics who have been shown to follow their religious beliefs than secular law which allows women--not the state-- to make their own reproductive choices.
I just don't get why state legislators, largely men, are so hell bent on controlling women's sexual behavior. They are public servants, not priests, ministers, or rabbis preaching in a house of worship. As public servants, they have the duty to respect secular laws, not undo them because their own religious beliefs.
But I wonder whether these legislators are truly inspired more by religion or by a basic disregard for women. I suspect that some, if not many, still harbor fantasies of patriarchal, 50s America, where "father thought he knew best."
Whatever their motive, it's invasive, overarching--and sanctimonious.
The only TRAP set by these laws is that forcing women to bear children conceived during rape, incest, or relations with an abusive husband or partner, or a drunken date too inept to use protection.
These states are daring SCOTUS to overturn Roe vs Wade, which doesn't bode well for reproductive freedom: several justices are staunch Catholics who have been shown to follow their religious beliefs than secular law which allows women--not the state-- to make their own reproductive choices.
I just don't get why state legislators, largely men, are so hell bent on controlling women's sexual behavior. They are public servants, not priests, ministers, or rabbis preaching in a house of worship. As public servants, they have the duty to respect secular laws, not undo them because their own religious beliefs.
But I wonder whether these legislators are truly inspired more by religion or by a basic disregard for women. I suspect that some, if not many, still harbor fantasies of patriarchal, 50s America, where "father thought he knew best."
Whatever their motive, it's invasive, overarching--and sanctimonious.
169
Ms. McMorrow,
Again, right on target. Every single word, which is why your're another of my heroes or should I say heroines, here. Have you ever run for office in your state? If not, you should really consider it. We need as many minds, souls and hearts like yours in government as we can possibly get. I am not kidding.
Submitted 12/20/15@4:20 a.m. e.s.t.
Again, right on target. Every single word, which is why your're another of my heroes or should I say heroines, here. Have you ever run for office in your state? If not, you should really consider it. We need as many minds, souls and hearts like yours in government as we can possibly get. I am not kidding.
Submitted 12/20/15@4:20 a.m. e.s.t.
8
Oh, I don't think the male legislators are particularly interested in abortion or women. I think abortion is the biggest wedge issue the reactionary party has ever had. It is as good as slavery, and closely related.
If the Republicans ever succeed in making abortion illegal, it would be a disaster for them. How would they hold the evangelicals in their sway? Certainly not economic policy! Not even Social Security or tax cuts. The GOP has to enact legislation to limit abortion because it does two things simultaneously: first, it satisfies their base that they are acting on its issue; and second, it forces attention on abortion, effectively deflecting attention from the real agenda of accruing money and power for the politicians and their handlers.
Wedge issues are never intended to succeed. They serve the purpose of distracting voters. Until you see that, it doesn't make sense. Once you do, it makes perfect sense. We on the freedom of choice side have to counter their moves because the stakes are so high. They can do as they please because the stakes are so low - as long as the rubes never figure out the game.
If the Republicans ever succeed in making abortion illegal, it would be a disaster for them. How would they hold the evangelicals in their sway? Certainly not economic policy! Not even Social Security or tax cuts. The GOP has to enact legislation to limit abortion because it does two things simultaneously: first, it satisfies their base that they are acting on its issue; and second, it forces attention on abortion, effectively deflecting attention from the real agenda of accruing money and power for the politicians and their handlers.
Wedge issues are never intended to succeed. They serve the purpose of distracting voters. Until you see that, it doesn't make sense. Once you do, it makes perfect sense. We on the freedom of choice side have to counter their moves because the stakes are so high. They can do as they please because the stakes are so low - as long as the rubes never figure out the game.
6
Once again, the party of smaller government and keep government out of people's lives tries to pass 288 more pieces of legislation to intrude on private lives. Hypocrisy indeed.
476
Didn't you know, women and girls are not really people, they are just chattel appendages to men who are harlots and will lie to any man of who they've has sex with and the paternity of their children?
This is all about power, not women, sex, when a human becomes a human. In the last case, for some this seems to never happen, even after surviving birth for 50 to 60 years even. Some never become truly human, thinking they are gods to their grave.
This is all about power, not women, sex, when a human becomes a human. In the last case, for some this seems to never happen, even after surviving birth for 50 to 60 years even. Some never become truly human, thinking they are gods to their grave.
8
When will states make it as hard to buy a gun as it is to get an abortion?
436
Here in NY, just a couple of years prior to the ACA, I moved to a different city, my old OB/GYN died, I lost my job and my employer-sponsored health insurance, and the prescription for the oral contraceptives I've been on for a decade (for ovarian cysts, not even pregnancy prevention!) expired. I didn't qualify for Medicaid or other assistance, and couldn't even afford Planned Parenthood's fee for an exam. Need an exam to get a prescription for the pill. I posted on Craigslist, begging for someone to sell me a one-month supply until I could get in to see a doctor. You would not even believe the responses I received by email, condemning me - people telling me that birth control is a sin, telling me that what I was asking for is illegal and they wanted to report me (to who?!), telling me I was a loser, telling me I deserve to get pregnant. Among other things!
I did not get my prescription until I went to the free clinic at the county health department, and sat for hours in a cramped waiting room with a dozen teenage girls half my age who were either pregnant or had infants & toddlers in tow.
It would have been so easy for me to get cocaibe, heroin, or even a gun, just a mile up the street in downtown Syracuse - but a pack of birth control pills? Much, much harder to obtain than you'd even imagine, for those without insurance.
I did not get my prescription until I went to the free clinic at the county health department, and sat for hours in a cramped waiting room with a dozen teenage girls half my age who were either pregnant or had infants & toddlers in tow.
It would have been so easy for me to get cocaibe, heroin, or even a gun, just a mile up the street in downtown Syracuse - but a pack of birth control pills? Much, much harder to obtain than you'd even imagine, for those without insurance.
271
When men can get pregnant.
50
Please enlighten us uninformed folks where it is required to have at least a federal background check, possibly taking up to 6 months depending on the hardware, and possibly state/local registration to get an abortion? Inquiring minds want to know.
1
Without question, unless the U.S. Supreme Court finds these 288 state measures merely fig-leafed attempts to invalidate Roe v. Wade, those rights in those states disappear for all women not able to travel to where they can buy abortion services. I still hope that the Supremes will do just that.
Apart from the disastrous effects a bad outcome in the Court would have on millions of women in those states, the saddest part of the matter would be that once again, as in the 1970s before Roe was handed down, the definition of “American” would vary from state to state on a very basic issue. The most dangerous results would be that we again see deaths by illegal back-alley abortions spike in those states, and we would invite a holy war on our soil that would find expression in MANY other fights beyond abortion. This divide precipitated by an unwillingness to render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God the personal beliefs of individuals but not the power to compel the shape and nature of governance … could consume us for a generation or more and rise in intensity to the forces that caused Lincoln to observe that “a house divided against itself cannot stand”. With God involved, it could become that bad.
But let’s not borrow sorrow. The Court MAY vacate what ARE fig-leafed attempts to invalidate Roe. However, if it doesn’t, then perhaps it’s time to abandon Roe and seek another vehicle for sensibly balancing the rights of women and the powers of states that we can better defend.
Apart from the disastrous effects a bad outcome in the Court would have on millions of women in those states, the saddest part of the matter would be that once again, as in the 1970s before Roe was handed down, the definition of “American” would vary from state to state on a very basic issue. The most dangerous results would be that we again see deaths by illegal back-alley abortions spike in those states, and we would invite a holy war on our soil that would find expression in MANY other fights beyond abortion. This divide precipitated by an unwillingness to render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God the personal beliefs of individuals but not the power to compel the shape and nature of governance … could consume us for a generation or more and rise in intensity to the forces that caused Lincoln to observe that “a house divided against itself cannot stand”. With God involved, it could become that bad.
But let’s not borrow sorrow. The Court MAY vacate what ARE fig-leafed attempts to invalidate Roe. However, if it doesn’t, then perhaps it’s time to abandon Roe and seek another vehicle for sensibly balancing the rights of women and the powers of states that we can better defend.
49
Congratulations and thanks, Richard, on another one of your best posts.
7
Thomas:
You love me this once only because my view on this matter happens to align with yours. Would that I could get you to buy my views on other matters, as well.
You love me this once only because my view on this matter happens to align with yours. Would that I could get you to buy my views on other matters, as well.
1
Richard: Not only because our views align pretty closely. Also because your comment is based on facts and good sense. I sometimes appreciate your comments I disagree with when they are similarly based on facts and sense. I dislike your comments that abuse Democrats or "leftists" without good reason, or that give Republicans a pass for their similar or worse bad behavior.
18
I'm guessing that Scalia, Alito and Thomas will use the principle of states' rights to uphold the Trap laws, leaving the fate of impoverished women who wish to control their own bodies to the good graces of the same two conservative justices who somehow found the decency to preserve the Affordable Care Act. I refer specifically to "impoverished" women because we all know that the affluent can always find the means to do in private what they might very well condemn in public.
277
@stu: And the anti-abortion protesters who find ways to do at midnight what they condemn in daylight.
62
Frankly, I think Kennedy will vote to vacate the laws as prohibited attempts to end-run Roe. In such a case, what Scalia and Thomas believe won't matter, except in very entertaining opposing opinions.
6
Richard: Let's hope so. I have little confidence in any prediction!
4
There are two things to be said about this:
Among the many deep-seated drives that determine human behavior, and the course of human history, the instinctual drive for male dominance stands out. We can see that in the unrelenting Republican "war on women." We can see it in the draconian suppression of women among the radical Islamic movements. It undoubtedly conferred a survival benefit on early humans and pre-humans over millions of years of evolution. It is hard-wired in us, but now it has become an anachronism, with no useful place in modern society.
The “new" Democrats stood by and did little or nothing while the Republicans emasculated the unions. They remain equally passive, now, while the GOP uses the same "salami" tactics slowly but surely to deny women their constitutional right to an abortion. With growing affluence, these "neoliberals" have lost the will to fight. No, that’s wrong: with growing affluence, they have become desensitized to the plight of others, and are too busy chasing the almighty dollar to care. http://www.nybooks.com/?p=33494
Among the many deep-seated drives that determine human behavior, and the course of human history, the instinctual drive for male dominance stands out. We can see that in the unrelenting Republican "war on women." We can see it in the draconian suppression of women among the radical Islamic movements. It undoubtedly conferred a survival benefit on early humans and pre-humans over millions of years of evolution. It is hard-wired in us, but now it has become an anachronism, with no useful place in modern society.
The “new" Democrats stood by and did little or nothing while the Republicans emasculated the unions. They remain equally passive, now, while the GOP uses the same "salami" tactics slowly but surely to deny women their constitutional right to an abortion. With growing affluence, these "neoliberals" have lost the will to fight. No, that’s wrong: with growing affluence, they have become desensitized to the plight of others, and are too busy chasing the almighty dollar to care. http://www.nybooks.com/?p=33494
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@Ron: I generally agree, especially about the craven or underhanded behavior of the "new Democrats", but I disagree with "undoubtedly". It isn't enough to make easy conclusions; we need serious research. Chimpanzee behavior, for example, doesn't entirely comport with the proposition that "[Male dominance] undoubtedly conferred a survival benefit on early humans ...."
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Translation: the whole concept of simple male dominance is a male fantasy, and I mean that in terms of a) Freud, b) deBeauvoir, c) Neil Hertz, d) George Gilder, and e) oh, grow up.
9
I see there is a fundamental difference between Democrats including liberals and Republicans including conservatives:
Democrats want to control every aspect of life including that women can abort and end life, while Republicans do not want to place limits on life, including limitations abortion rights discriminates against the unborn child....
Democrats always indicate that Republicans are the party of discrimination, however with the majority of Democrats support the ultimate form of discrimination in abortion...
But then again abortion is the selective process Democrats want to control...
Democrats want to control every aspect of life including that women can abort and end life, while Republicans do not want to place limits on life, including limitations abortion rights discriminates against the unborn child....
Democrats always indicate that Republicans are the party of discrimination, however with the majority of Democrats support the ultimate form of discrimination in abortion...
But then again abortion is the selective process Democrats want to control...
1
On SCOTUS I would hate to count
As outrages morbidly mount,
Reproductive rights slashin'
Is freely in fashion,
And fairness Repubs freely flount.
As outrages morbidly mount,
Reproductive rights slashin'
Is freely in fashion,
And fairness Repubs freely flount.
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To Mr. Eisenberg,
One of my heroes here, thank you.
Submitted 12/20/15@4:16 a.m. e.s.t.
One of my heroes here, thank you.
Submitted 12/20/15@4:16 a.m. e.s.t.
2