Congratulations. You have now roped ISIS into that vast crowd of wonderful people who deserve all the humanizing respect that political correctness can bestow upon them. Three (or four) cheers for softer sides everywhere. And let's roll another head or two to celebrate all and sundry while we're at it!
8
For some reason, I have read every single one of these comments. What I got from this was a sense that people in our time are terrified of nuance. They want good people to be angels and bad people to be mindless killing machines, and they are terrified and furious when reality refuses to accommodate them. It's common for NYtimes commentators to say that left and right are equally guilty when a political vice is mentioned, and it is rarely true. But in this case, they come closer than most. You can see the same attitude in College students that won't let Bill Maher on campus because of his views on Islam (which I abhor, by the way) and in the belief that there is no significant difference between Clinton, Romney and Trump. Not as bad as wanting to carpet bomb everyone who lives near a bad guy, but too close for my tastes.
Republicans don't want to be told that they people they want to kill are human. Democrats don't want to be reminded that we are going to have to kill them even though they are human. But both seem to be praying "please let life be a video game, where all the bad guys are bad all the way through."
Republicans don't want to be told that they people they want to kill are human. Democrats don't want to be reminded that we are going to have to kill them even though they are human. But both seem to be praying "please let life be a video game, where all the bad guys are bad all the way through."
13
What an indulgent description of an ugly, blood soaked fraternity. Where are the women in this paean to toxic conformity? Oh, that's right. They are just walking wombs, sex slaves, and servants swept under a rug called a burqa. Once again, women are voiceless and invisible in the mainstream media. How banal and utterly predictable.
I thought it was this ideology's utter inhumanity that separated it's adherents from the rest of us? And here you are, desperately attempting to humanize them as they slice their scythe of hate and intolerance through Western civilization in an attempt to revert us all back to the dark ages of ignorance, submission, and feudalism. How enlightened of you. Do you think you can reason with these venomous ideologues?
I thought it was this ideology's utter inhumanity that separated it's adherents from the rest of us? And here you are, desperately attempting to humanize them as they slice their scythe of hate and intolerance through Western civilization in an attempt to revert us all back to the dark ages of ignorance, submission, and feudalism. How enlightened of you. Do you think you can reason with these venomous ideologues?
8
Unamerican!
What's the point of publishing this article.
They're killers and should be treated as such.
It baffles my mind to see NY Times humanizing these people.
All you are doing is promoting their cause to the masses. Especially those simple minded people
What's the point of publishing this article.
They're killers and should be treated as such.
It baffles my mind to see NY Times humanizing these people.
All you are doing is promoting their cause to the masses. Especially those simple minded people
4
Thomas Hegghammer - The Nazis were lovers of the arts as you know from all the art they looted. I can tell ISIS are lovers of art and culture from the historic monuments and museum pieces that they have destroyed and sold to finance their murderous soft side.
4
Lovely. If the Times goes back a number of years, perhaps 7-10 years ago, it ran pictures of Nazi Auschwitz personnel on their day off, at picnics, etc. They looked ghoulish, their smiles eerily pathetic and too bright. They also sang songs, danced, and not surprisingly, some of them, perhaps many, believed themselves to be religiously faithful Christians. Remember how Hitler loved children and pets?
So tell us something new. Only the setting, religious beliefs (truthfully, lack of) and victims differ. Hard to say who is/was worse. The one major difference is that the rank and file who did the awful work in the death camps, and slave labor camps, often drank heavily. Wonder if these young guys drink in private.
So tell us something new. Only the setting, religious beliefs (truthfully, lack of) and victims differ. Hard to say who is/was worse. The one major difference is that the rank and file who did the awful work in the death camps, and slave labor camps, often drank heavily. Wonder if these young guys drink in private.
2
Read what the NYT calls its "Picks". Really says it all. The Times has about dropped all pretense. Nice.
5
A consensual, demented, mass delusion..... No greater scam has ever affected so many vulnerable young people; indeed, young murderers.
A dark period of human history.
A dark period of human history.
2
Actually this reminds me of similar stories about urban "gang" life. Young men have a hunger to belong, and the gang gives them that, the comradeship and so on. Violence in gangs has an aspect of 'proving your manhood' and not being disrespected. Violent acts can be expected as a 'rite of passage' or 'initiation'.
The gang membership works as a sort of warm pillow for the young man's emotions. It is a feel good thing, like having a family, not all about anger.
The gang membership works as a sort of warm pillow for the young man's emotions. It is a feel good thing, like having a family, not all about anger.
9
I see a lot of comparisons and analogies to World War II. WWII looms large in the American psyche, but Americans should be careful not to confuse the current War on Terror with a large scale conventional conflict from half a century ago.
The desire to solve all our troubles simply by storming the beaches of Normandy again is strong, but misleading. That impulse has mislead us in conflicts from Korea to Vietnam to Iraq in 2003. Part of learning from history is to understand that not every conflict is the same, and running back to that glorious chapter of the country's past every time we face a new enemy is simply wishful thinking.
There has been a recent documentary interviewing the retired CIA directors (and other high level intelligence officials) who have been in office since 9/11. Although those former directors disagree with each other about almost everything else, the one thing they agree on is that America cannot simply kill its way out of the the Jihadist problem.
The desire to solve all our troubles simply by storming the beaches of Normandy again is strong, but misleading. That impulse has mislead us in conflicts from Korea to Vietnam to Iraq in 2003. Part of learning from history is to understand that not every conflict is the same, and running back to that glorious chapter of the country's past every time we face a new enemy is simply wishful thinking.
There has been a recent documentary interviewing the retired CIA directors (and other high level intelligence officials) who have been in office since 9/11. Although those former directors disagree with each other about almost everything else, the one thing they agree on is that America cannot simply kill its way out of the the Jihadist problem.
10
Reading this piece just infuriates me. What is the point of humanizing a bunch of savage killers? For those of you who say it's important to know our enemy...sounds good theoretically BUT how many of us readers are out there fighting these radical Muslims. How does our understanding of this help the governments fight these radical Muslims in any way? This information is useful for agencies that actually fight the terrorists...and I suspect our government knows all of this already. So what's the point in spreading this to the rest of us?
10
You don't think that, as a citizen in a democratic society, you should be an informed voter who understands the important foreign policy issues? That might include what groups are attacking Americans and how those groups operate?
Perhaps that is part of the reason why the American democracy is so dysfunctional, when voters are willing to leave governing to the government, and demand to be shielded in ignorance. Whatever happened to government for the people, "by the people"?
Perhaps that is part of the reason why the American democracy is so dysfunctional, when voters are willing to leave governing to the government, and demand to be shielded in ignorance. Whatever happened to government for the people, "by the people"?
6
Because in a free society, every person has an obligation to know what is needed to protect it, so you can vote intelligently.
8
Um ... because we vote?
6
After MacArthur helped militarily defeat Japan, he taught them rational ideas, eg, a wall of separation between temple and state, individual rights, republican govt.
1
December 19, 2015
Never is a poet important until in age and individuality he becomes a pure individual and will meet all in all arenas known and unknown with self wisdom.
In the Western Poetic tradition especially William Butler Yeats and Shakespeare and say T S Eliot were accomplished poets differentiated and world renown. As for popular or tribal or secret societies where want to be poets or fantasy warrior to rule the world - all is drunken immaturity wanting to pretend their voice is gilded and angels are loving - but forget it and live and die for illusions thinking in life you make the world better - you didn't and never became of greatest faith known by all truth seekers and in all lands.
jja Manhattan, N. Y.
Never is a poet important until in age and individuality he becomes a pure individual and will meet all in all arenas known and unknown with self wisdom.
In the Western Poetic tradition especially William Butler Yeats and Shakespeare and say T S Eliot were accomplished poets differentiated and world renown. As for popular or tribal or secret societies where want to be poets or fantasy warrior to rule the world - all is drunken immaturity wanting to pretend their voice is gilded and angels are loving - but forget it and live and die for illusions thinking in life you make the world better - you didn't and never became of greatest faith known by all truth seekers and in all lands.
jja Manhattan, N. Y.
1
It's "pure" that is the issue. If you think Yeats or Shakespeare or Eliot were "pure" ...
This kind of judging is problematical; I suspect daesh are strict and that means they don't get drunk on anything but the "power" of thinking they can "purify" the world.
This kind of judging is problematical; I suspect daesh are strict and that means they don't get drunk on anything but the "power" of thinking they can "purify" the world.
2
It is unsettling that these fanatics weep together. It would be even scarier if they laughed together and the laughter never turned on themselves and what they were trying to do. My impression is that they avoid any sort of uncruel laughter because it would destroy their world view.
1
Martin Amis, http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/12/07/oktober
"a heavy mudslide in the direction of old illusions, old dreams of purity and cruelty"
We are human, and it takes maturity to accept that perfection is unattainable and tolerance not only of ourselves but of others is part of the act of community and of love. Hatred solves nothing, and finding people to blame is easy.
These are immature cowards who cannot accept the flawed nature of the human condition, as are the manifold followers of our oversimplifiers currently on the Republican throne. They call themselves Christian but ignore the Gospels.
"a heavy mudslide in the direction of old illusions, old dreams of purity and cruelty"
We are human, and it takes maturity to accept that perfection is unattainable and tolerance not only of ourselves but of others is part of the act of community and of love. Hatred solves nothing, and finding people to blame is easy.
These are immature cowards who cannot accept the flawed nature of the human condition, as are the manifold followers of our oversimplifiers currently on the Republican throne. They call themselves Christian but ignore the Gospels.
5
Facsinating range of responses in tone and tenor. The consolidated lesson seems to be one must learn a lot about the enemy to plan for its demise. After that, it's time for the allied combatants to demonize and depersonalize the enemy in order to facilitate its destruction while maintaining a clear conscience.
After only about 200,000 years on the planet as the modern human, there's a bit to go before reaching equilibrium as other animals and plants naturally progress toward.
After only about 200,000 years on the planet as the modern human, there's a bit to go before reaching equilibrium as other animals and plants naturally progress toward.
4
The peripheral activities of mass murderers are not important. Who cares if they read poetry or concern themselves with fashion between beheadings?
8
And yet you want them defeated. Do you not understand what great recruiters Trump and the "carpetbomber" fans are? Know your enemy.
9
I think we know enough. They believe God wants them to kill innocent people without mercy. Beyond that, we only need to know who supports and supplies them, and where they are so they can be expeditiously removed from this world.
1
To win a war it is no doubt useful,perhaps necesary to know your enemy. However, it does not follow that you should refuse to use "extreme" force if it is necessary to conquer the enemy.
During WWII the Nazi´s killed 10 randomly chosen Frenchmen for every German the French underground killed. French resistance was neutralized.
In response to terrorist bombings inside its borders, among other tactics, the Israelis retaliated fiercely including destroying the homes of terrorists' families. Hamas and Hezbollah are now toothless tigers lately relying upon random and largely unsuccessful civilian attempts at street crime against Israelis.
Young (and old) religious fanatics can become enraptured by the appeal of a revival of the glory days of the caliphate. Okay, I get it. The appeal of jihad and revival of the caliphate doesn´t negate other human qualities in these disillusioned, supposedly disenfranchised guys and gals. They may dig poetry, camaraderie, and swimming just like other secular folk (although music, dancing and art is seriously circumscribed under sharia).
Now let´s deal with conquering them. Would it be politically incorrect to suggest that measures to out-brutalize them might be right...and ethical because it in the long run, it will save lives.
During WWII the Nazi´s killed 10 randomly chosen Frenchmen for every German the French underground killed. French resistance was neutralized.
In response to terrorist bombings inside its borders, among other tactics, the Israelis retaliated fiercely including destroying the homes of terrorists' families. Hamas and Hezbollah are now toothless tigers lately relying upon random and largely unsuccessful civilian attempts at street crime against Israelis.
Young (and old) religious fanatics can become enraptured by the appeal of a revival of the glory days of the caliphate. Okay, I get it. The appeal of jihad and revival of the caliphate doesn´t negate other human qualities in these disillusioned, supposedly disenfranchised guys and gals. They may dig poetry, camaraderie, and swimming just like other secular folk (although music, dancing and art is seriously circumscribed under sharia).
Now let´s deal with conquering them. Would it be politically incorrect to suggest that measures to out-brutalize them might be right...and ethical because it in the long run, it will save lives.
2
We now consider those Nazi actions to be war crimes. We punished them severely for that.
Now you advocate it.
Now you advocate it.
12
I did not read any vindication in Davis's post. What I read was that David does not think negotiating with these terrorists/jihadist would lead to any resolution favorable to the West. David points toward tactics that have proven to work in the past in dealing with guerrilla warfare. It is a different question whether the West should adopt these tactics in fighting ISIS.
2
Why is it that people always say "I get it", when they don't? It's rather like "I'm not racist, but..."
1
While it is silly to dismiss any movement as "sociopathic" it is equally silly to think that you can defeat them by "understanding" their softer side. I already know they're human. So?
Hitler appealed to people for very complex reasons, economic, rage/fear from lack of power, hatred of the Jew/other, love of authority already in the culture, etc. When we understand an enemy it doesn't mean we have to understand that they love their dog & want to be a painter. It means we need to know their goals & how they achieve their goals.
Their goal here is to murder & destroy through nihilistic & strategic online & guerrilla warfare. They achieve recruitment by appealing to a range of people--some lonely & in need of authority or being in a club, some in need of someone to hate & kill, some deeply religious people who believe this is their religious calling. We can't erase hate & loneliness & the need for a rigid hate-filled religion that promises salvation for adherents.
The problem is that the various needs are vast & will always be filled. There will always be people who will hate &, in a rapidly changing global world (which is scary) those who are drawn to this brutality as the answer.
I don't believe counter propaganda will work for most cases. The only thing that will work is greater power, which can come from within Middle Eastern countries harboring this movement. That those nations decline to act is a sign that this movement serves a purpose to not just its followers.
Hitler appealed to people for very complex reasons, economic, rage/fear from lack of power, hatred of the Jew/other, love of authority already in the culture, etc. When we understand an enemy it doesn't mean we have to understand that they love their dog & want to be a painter. It means we need to know their goals & how they achieve their goals.
Their goal here is to murder & destroy through nihilistic & strategic online & guerrilla warfare. They achieve recruitment by appealing to a range of people--some lonely & in need of authority or being in a club, some in need of someone to hate & kill, some deeply religious people who believe this is their religious calling. We can't erase hate & loneliness & the need for a rigid hate-filled religion that promises salvation for adherents.
The problem is that the various needs are vast & will always be filled. There will always be people who will hate &, in a rapidly changing global world (which is scary) those who are drawn to this brutality as the answer.
I don't believe counter propaganda will work for most cases. The only thing that will work is greater power, which can come from within Middle Eastern countries harboring this movement. That those nations decline to act is a sign that this movement serves a purpose to not just its followers.
7
Christians and Jihadis worship a supernatural creator. Nazism and Marxism are nihilist. The West is (was) rational.
One wonders. Do jihadists obey traffic laws and bother to stop at red lights? Do they drive carefully and courteously through intersections, stay on the correct side of the road? Why bother with such things. After all they are suspending the laws of human decency and leading lives of romantic warrior poets hoping for death and a beautiful afterlife.
1
The commentators aghast and appalled at this column just don't get it. This column is spot on. This is the way psychopaths are -- they are bursting with sentiment and idealism. Especially the most dangerous psychopaths of all -- the ones motivated by ideology. The SS -- the worst butchers of all until ISIS came along -- were idealists. That's right campers -- idealists. There is one incident from the Battle of the Bulge where a group of SS men fresh from slaughtering unarmed prisoners and civilians, and about to be executed, asked to hear Christmas carols sung by some captured German nurses before being shot themselves. There's nothing new here. We've just got to accept the absoluteness weirdness of these murderers and get about the grim business of putting them down.
18
This is a great example of ethnography. Understanding the allure of jihad is essential if we are to combat it.
13
Ah, now that we have this subtle, nuanced understanding of these people, is anyone interested in fostering a campfire, smores, kumbaya, and talk of feelings?
I am plain horrified by the explicit notion that we must understand these degenerate nihilistic thugs in order to deal with them. Are we gone total mad?
I couldn't care less about the pain these jokers feel, or the ways in which they spend their time. I cannot find anything in their personal lives that justifies anything they believe in, nor anything they do.
Every form of human evil, whether they were government sponsored (like Nazis, Japanese imperial army, Pol Pot, Idi Amin) or private (Koresh, Jonestown) or societal (slave traders and owners) has a human side. They celebrate birthdays of their spawn, they write poetry, and hug and kiss people. In no way does this humanize them. Why? Because they exist to fundamentally deprive people of their humanity, that is why.
This kind of nonsensical, apologist feature does nothing but humanizes evil killers. Hegghammer should have his head examined for writing this drivel. People will start thinking that we can bring them back into the fold of regular human beings. If we think that, then we are out of our collective minds.
Kalidan
I am plain horrified by the explicit notion that we must understand these degenerate nihilistic thugs in order to deal with them. Are we gone total mad?
I couldn't care less about the pain these jokers feel, or the ways in which they spend their time. I cannot find anything in their personal lives that justifies anything they believe in, nor anything they do.
Every form of human evil, whether they were government sponsored (like Nazis, Japanese imperial army, Pol Pot, Idi Amin) or private (Koresh, Jonestown) or societal (slave traders and owners) has a human side. They celebrate birthdays of their spawn, they write poetry, and hug and kiss people. In no way does this humanize them. Why? Because they exist to fundamentally deprive people of their humanity, that is why.
This kind of nonsensical, apologist feature does nothing but humanizes evil killers. Hegghammer should have his head examined for writing this drivel. People will start thinking that we can bring them back into the fold of regular human beings. If we think that, then we are out of our collective minds.
Kalidan
8
I think the point is not to use this knowledge to accept them, but as the basis of another set of tools to defeat them. Bombing alone will not be enough.
12
I agree with all the posts here that point out how important this piece is. Before the US occpation of Japan in 1945 the gov't commissioned the American anthropoligist, Ruth Benedict, to inform them about the Japanese culture, a culture very foreign to us. The resulting work, "The Chrysanthemum and the Sword" is an exceedingly interesting read, and in the Forward the author points out that to think that the ways of Japanese culture are puzzling, or worse ridiculous, gets us nowhere. Only when we understand the culture will we have effective means to deal with the task at hand. In 1945 it was to effect a successful occupation, which required the willing cooperation of the Japanese, in 2015 it is to prosecute a successful operation to neutralize ISIS.
11
Setting aside what actual impact Ruth Benedict's had on the American occupation of Japan (vs. the fact that a book was written), the book was commissioned after the war against Japan was won. After, not before. Do you see nothing significant from this fact?
6
The significance is that because the Japanese were conquered by people who understood them, the Japanese are now our allies. MacArthur did not wait to read Chrysanthemum and the Sword before he planned his occupation strategy. He had already done enough research to realize that you could pacify the Japanese by getting the Emperor on your side, and that if you killed him you would get an insurrection that would go on for years. If MacArthur had acted like many of the commentators on this page and said "We know they're bad guys. what else do we need to know? Lets kill them", many more American lives would have been lost to decades of guerilla warfare.
7
Did you Google:
Willful ISIS DIA
Now that so many of us want to "kill, kill, kill" (ISIS) isn't it time to look in the mirror?
Willful ISIS DIA
Now that so many of us want to "kill, kill, kill" (ISIS) isn't it time to look in the mirror?
4
Yes, there's a PR issue to be addressed. But rather than try and understand the appeal of ISIS and re-direct potential recruits toward ISIS-lite, we should disrupt and destroy every root and branch of this abominable group and kill all who pledge allegiance to it.
We should publicize our determination to destroy ISIS, not to understand it.
This is not an endorsement of the mindless and counter-productive proposals by Trump, Cruz and friends to bomb, bomb, bomb, it's a proposal to destroy ISIS at an intimate level, by simultaneously aggressively attacking their online presence (including the erasure of all references to ISIS martyrs), eliminating their sources of finance and using smart weapons and special ops to kill them wherever they can be found, new recruits along with leaders. Make it known that if you join ISIS you will be dead within weeks.
This policy requires help and cooperation from our Muslim friends and we must be super clear that our target is ISIS not Islam.
If we do a proper job, ISIS will become a lonely place where you and your friendships don't last because you and your friends end up dead, both in the real world and the world online.
We should publicize our determination to destroy ISIS, not to understand it.
This is not an endorsement of the mindless and counter-productive proposals by Trump, Cruz and friends to bomb, bomb, bomb, it's a proposal to destroy ISIS at an intimate level, by simultaneously aggressively attacking their online presence (including the erasure of all references to ISIS martyrs), eliminating their sources of finance and using smart weapons and special ops to kill them wherever they can be found, new recruits along with leaders. Make it known that if you join ISIS you will be dead within weeks.
This policy requires help and cooperation from our Muslim friends and we must be super clear that our target is ISIS not Islam.
If we do a proper job, ISIS will become a lonely place where you and your friendships don't last because you and your friends end up dead, both in the real world and the world online.
5
Sounds like what ISIS is saying about us. Dumb and dumber - which are we going to be?
1
Having been brought up as a Southern Baptist, I already know that the most hate-filled people often are the most devoutly religious and emotional in love for their god. Now that I am free of that particular variety of horse excrement (expletive deleted), I say a pox on all your houses (of worship).
"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."
--Steven Weinberg
"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."
--Steven Weinberg
9
OK N.Y. Times. So we learn from this article that we need a force of "dream police" to combat murderous jihad fantasies. We also learn that we need armies of liberal arts professors to improve the quality of their wretched poetry and stories. Possibly some fashion designers to improve the statements their clothes make, and maybe some better structured playtime for them as well.
I would like to thank the author for letting us know our enemy better, so we can now plot a better strategy for fighting this ideology.
I would like to thank the author for letting us know our enemy better, so we can now plot a better strategy for fighting this ideology.
3
>armies of liberal arts professors to improve the quality of their wretched poetry and stories.
Mel Brooks, call your office!
Mel Brooks, call your office!
1
Every ethnicity has its own culture, which includes music art etc. We Indian Americans enjoy our rich music, literature and art which are very different from the American music, literature etc. And of course we have a sense of belonging with each other. I am sure this applies to all ethnicity and religions.
That sense of belonging doesn't have to mean that we hate others and want to kill them.
That sense of belonging doesn't have to mean that we hate others and want to kill them.
4
Excellent point. And besides, these people could enjoy the socio/cultural assets the author mentions without belonging to ISIS. Finally, how does battle attire qualify as "fashion"? This article is dreadful on so many levels.
There is a need to see an enemy as Other. To dehumanize. This draws such heat in response because it seeks to show human beings, and explain them. That isn't the same as agreeing with them or supporting them.
Remember that understanding is power. Refusing to understand is therefore weakness.
If in the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king, then putting out his one eye is not a power move.
Remember that understanding is power. Refusing to understand is therefore weakness.
If in the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king, then putting out his one eye is not a power move.
7
If there was a human side to the jihadis, they would'nt be committing these inhumane acts.
4
Know your enemy. Excellent work...
6
That, after the complete demolition of numerous UN protected historical/cultural sights, starting with the Two Buddhas of Bamiyan, Mr. Hegghammer believes he can identify the soul of an artisan in Taliban, Qaeda or IS recruits, is alone, enough to make me shake my head.
4
This offensive article does ask two important questions, though their obvious answers would be rejected by the author:
1) "Why have tens of thousands of people from around the world chosen to live under the Islamic State’s draconian rule and fight under its black flag?" and
2) What can the West do to reduce that attraction?
The author correctly describes Islam as more than a mere religion--it is an all-encompassing way of life. He does not, however, acknowledge that the rules of that life were meticulously defined by the Koran and the Hadith (which differ by sect) more than a thousand years ago (Google, 'is whistling haram?'), not by ISIS today. It is the caliphate's adherence to these (Sunni version) rules, combined with the desire to "avenge Western foreign policy," that draws people to ISIS: e.g., Syed Farook had memorized the Koran; the recent London subway slasher shouted "this is for Syria."
Since the West cannot edit Islam's founding documents (nor alter jihadis' dreams), the correct course is to stay out of their countries and, until Muslims themselves weed the intolerance and violence from their faith, keep them out of our countries. 13% of Syrian refugees--or 1,300 out of the initial 10,000 our president wants to bring here--have a positive or "somewhat positive" view of ISIS.
Sources:
Atlantic Magazine, "What ISIS Really Wants"
Sam Harris, "Never Stop Lying"
Clarion Project, "13% of Syrian Refugees Support ISIS"
1) "Why have tens of thousands of people from around the world chosen to live under the Islamic State’s draconian rule and fight under its black flag?" and
2) What can the West do to reduce that attraction?
The author correctly describes Islam as more than a mere religion--it is an all-encompassing way of life. He does not, however, acknowledge that the rules of that life were meticulously defined by the Koran and the Hadith (which differ by sect) more than a thousand years ago (Google, 'is whistling haram?'), not by ISIS today. It is the caliphate's adherence to these (Sunni version) rules, combined with the desire to "avenge Western foreign policy," that draws people to ISIS: e.g., Syed Farook had memorized the Koran; the recent London subway slasher shouted "this is for Syria."
Since the West cannot edit Islam's founding documents (nor alter jihadis' dreams), the correct course is to stay out of their countries and, until Muslims themselves weed the intolerance and violence from their faith, keep them out of our countries. 13% of Syrian refugees--or 1,300 out of the initial 10,000 our president wants to bring here--have a positive or "somewhat positive" view of ISIS.
Sources:
Atlantic Magazine, "What ISIS Really Wants"
Sam Harris, "Never Stop Lying"
Clarion Project, "13% of Syrian Refugees Support ISIS"
9
I'm really not interested in the aesthetic pursuits of dedicated murderers.
10
It's a cult. A full blown cult.
I can't admire the "attractions" of any cult, but knowing them, understanding them, is important to dealing with the cult.
It is very hard to deprogram cultists. This larger picture of the whole as a cult is therefore troubling, but reality needs to be seen.
this is a valuable effort.
I can't admire the "attractions" of any cult, but knowing them, understanding them, is important to dealing with the cult.
It is very hard to deprogram cultists. This larger picture of the whole as a cult is therefore troubling, but reality needs to be seen.
this is a valuable effort.
8
This is why Ayaan Ali Hirsi ('Infidel' author) says we make a mistake in calling these killers 'radicalized', as if they are 'bad' Muslims; they are just Muslims....following a very old, very harsh course of Islam. We should not be surprised by the 'normalcy' in other aspects of their lives. It would be much simpler if evil wasn't wrapped in such banality...as Hannah Arendt observed. Troubling. Good piece of journalism.
9
ayaan only wants to make money, misleading anwary in the process
1
"When jihadis aren’t fighting — which is most of the time — they enjoy storytelling and watching films, cooking and swimming. The social atmosphere (at least for those who play by the rules) is egalitarian, affectionate and even playful. Jihadi life is emotionally intense, filled with the thrill of combat, the sorrow of loss, the joy of camaraderie and the elation of religious experience."
I can't help but wonder what the families of those murdered in Paris and San Bernardino will think reading this. This paragraph, in particular, is sickening. Does the "thrill of combat" include beheading and machine-gunning innocent civilians? If this article actually shed light on the motivations of these people, it might have had some value, but it does not, and clearly that's not the point anyway.
These ISIS killers are subhuman savages, and the only information we need is where they are, so that we can kill them as quickly as possible. Whatever motivation the Times had for publishing this claptrap is almost as disturbing to ponder as the article itself. A puff piece about murderers, and before the bodies of the victims are even cold! This is just shameful, and shows remarkably poor judgment.
I can't help but wonder what the families of those murdered in Paris and San Bernardino will think reading this. This paragraph, in particular, is sickening. Does the "thrill of combat" include beheading and machine-gunning innocent civilians? If this article actually shed light on the motivations of these people, it might have had some value, but it does not, and clearly that's not the point anyway.
These ISIS killers are subhuman savages, and the only information we need is where they are, so that we can kill them as quickly as possible. Whatever motivation the Times had for publishing this claptrap is almost as disturbing to ponder as the article itself. A puff piece about murderers, and before the bodies of the victims are even cold! This is just shameful, and shows remarkably poor judgment.
9
"Jihadi culture also comes with its own sartorial styles."
I read this sentence, and the entire ensuing paragraph, twice to make sure it was real and not a quotation from Jerry Seinfeld or Chris Rock.
The author seems to be sincere and serious, but he is astonishingly tone-deaf. I wonder what his countryman Karl Ove Knausgaard would have to say on this subject.
I read this sentence, and the entire ensuing paragraph, twice to make sure it was real and not a quotation from Jerry Seinfeld or Chris Rock.
The author seems to be sincere and serious, but he is astonishingly tone-deaf. I wonder what his countryman Karl Ove Knausgaard would have to say on this subject.
6
Paris and San Bernardino are horrors but not much more so, possibly lesser, than the French Air Force bombing Raqaa a town that may have some jihadists in it but substantially populated by non combatant civilians, women,children and oldest ers of both sexes.
Nor more horrible than Abu Ghraib managed by the USA Army nor Haditha of rape and slaughter fame or Faluga in which wounded combatants laying at a mosque were systematically executed by an auxiliary of the USA: Black Water.
No one is innocent but the onus is on the aggressor or usurper and that is how events, and horrors, unfold with each party using its available resources to the maximum effect and in which standing by civilians suffer .on both sides by both sides!
No holier than thou here except in the crucial case of total disregard of basic human rights, as in Palestine, or naked aggression based on fabrications ,lies and the insatiable urge to destroy as in Iraq.
Response was inevitable and will,remain inevitable until the aggressor and usurper depart unmourned!
Nor more horrible than Abu Ghraib managed by the USA Army nor Haditha of rape and slaughter fame or Faluga in which wounded combatants laying at a mosque were systematically executed by an auxiliary of the USA: Black Water.
No one is innocent but the onus is on the aggressor or usurper and that is how events, and horrors, unfold with each party using its available resources to the maximum effect and in which standing by civilians suffer .on both sides by both sides!
No holier than thou here except in the crucial case of total disregard of basic human rights, as in Palestine, or naked aggression based on fabrications ,lies and the insatiable urge to destroy as in Iraq.
Response was inevitable and will,remain inevitable until the aggressor and usurper depart unmourned!
4
Yes, Response - when someone sets a Jordanian airman on fire - and kills him in one of the most horrifying ways imaginable- is inevitable. The response was Jordan increased their air strikes and 99% of the world felt they were justified. No one is being holier than thou. This is a war and those who want to destroy us are the enemy. It is that simple.
6
@Omar - The wrongs you write of are wrongs. No doubt about it. We really should have left Saddam Hussein and Muammar Gaddaffi alone. We should have kept our nose out of Bashar Al-Assad's business. But 9/11 was a big deal and destroying Al Qaeda and the Taliban was necessary. Unfortunately, our inept, cowardly and corrupt Vice President, Richard Cheney, took advantage of the Daddy issues of our inept President George Bush and into Iraq we went. The lid came off, the Arab Spring happened and now we have ISIS, a perverted, nihilistic distillation of Wahhabist Islam that is an affront to the entire civilized world.
So yes, the west has atoning to do. We'll get to it after ISIS is destroyed.
So yes, the west has atoning to do. We'll get to it after ISIS is destroyed.
1
Rumors and some intelligence reports abound that the said pilot was not put on fires a the news were joyously received in the West.
Be that what it may what has the USA and the judo/Christian alliance has to do with it .Jordan responded as it saw fit .
judo/Christian powers have nothing to do in an internal conflict except that it affords an unmissable opportunity for the J/C alliance to kill and destroy.
The conflict is none of your business unless the IRA/Britain conflict was our business!
Be that what it may what has the USA and the judo/Christian alliance has to do with it .Jordan responded as it saw fit .
judo/Christian powers have nothing to do in an internal conflict except that it affords an unmissable opportunity for the J/C alliance to kill and destroy.
The conflict is none of your business unless the IRA/Britain conflict was our business!
This is truly a horrendous Op-Ed. The weeping and crying the author refers to is the result of brainwashing, the type designed to give Jihadists a sense of hopelessness on Earth, the type that led to the mass suicides of 900 Christians led by the Reverend Jim Jones in 1978.
The brainwashing is highly sophisticated, but not so sophisticated that a Director of Terrorism would fall for it!
The brainwashing is highly sophisticated, but not so sophisticated that a Director of Terrorism would fall for it!
11
This is a unique article, and an important one. Understanding the appeal of Islamic extremism to potential recruits is vitally important if we are to counter it.
19
So when does weeping in public make a person less evil?
So when does writing poetry make a person less evil?
So when does dream interpretation make a person less evil?
Is Heggjammer attempting to humanize these creatures who lead and/or join ISIS, Al Qaeda or whatever terrorist group they associate with as though we should seek even a micron of empathy because of some traits they may have which are often associated with being passionate?
Hitler was also passionate in some respects but at the same time he was a creature of murderous vengeance, but no one in their right mind would dare have any empathy or mercy for this derelict , who had teamed up with radical Islamists.
The recruits who are siting dreams or premonitions are merely delusional affixed on an alternate reality they could not cope.
Once again an op-ed like this only validates these rabid creatures....
So when does writing poetry make a person less evil?
So when does dream interpretation make a person less evil?
Is Heggjammer attempting to humanize these creatures who lead and/or join ISIS, Al Qaeda or whatever terrorist group they associate with as though we should seek even a micron of empathy because of some traits they may have which are often associated with being passionate?
Hitler was also passionate in some respects but at the same time he was a creature of murderous vengeance, but no one in their right mind would dare have any empathy or mercy for this derelict , who had teamed up with radical Islamists.
The recruits who are siting dreams or premonitions are merely delusional affixed on an alternate reality they could not cope.
Once again an op-ed like this only validates these rabid creatures....
1
This article appears to be a piece of propaganda and very conveniently ignores the most important activity of these extremists: Watching Western TV and Media. And they find the following:
They see how eight millions of their community got killed and millions made refugees because of the invasion, bombing, occupying and control of their lands in the ME by the Western Countries, the US/EU/NATO combine, at the behest of a 'Tiny ME Country'. These extremists get insane when they see the essential infrastructure bombed, agricultural lands laid to waste, schools/hospitals destroyed, their generations to come risking permanent genetic deformation because of the mini-nukes and white phosphorous used, their women turning to prostitution to be able to feed their young infants.
And what is driving them to more insanity is this false propaganda that they are getting radicalized because of their religion, mosque, radical preachers who got radicalized because of the mentioned Western atrocities. This propaganda against Islam/Muslims particularly in English speaking countries has been possible because they are Protestant Majority countries with End-Time Rapture believing religious fanatics at the helm of the political leadership, manipulated by the Islamophobic Tiny ME Country, whose sympathizers control most of the mainstream media. This propaganda is like rubbing salt on their mental torture wounds driving them crazy, insane, hateful against the West, driving them to violence.
They see how eight millions of their community got killed and millions made refugees because of the invasion, bombing, occupying and control of their lands in the ME by the Western Countries, the US/EU/NATO combine, at the behest of a 'Tiny ME Country'. These extremists get insane when they see the essential infrastructure bombed, agricultural lands laid to waste, schools/hospitals destroyed, their generations to come risking permanent genetic deformation because of the mini-nukes and white phosphorous used, their women turning to prostitution to be able to feed their young infants.
And what is driving them to more insanity is this false propaganda that they are getting radicalized because of their religion, mosque, radical preachers who got radicalized because of the mentioned Western atrocities. This propaganda against Islam/Muslims particularly in English speaking countries has been possible because they are Protestant Majority countries with End-Time Rapture believing religious fanatics at the helm of the political leadership, manipulated by the Islamophobic Tiny ME Country, whose sympathizers control most of the mainstream media. This propaganda is like rubbing salt on their mental torture wounds driving them crazy, insane, hateful against the West, driving them to violence.
4
Militant Jihad's soft power would appear to be a minor mitigating factor in the brutality and self-righteousness of Militant Jihad. All the crocodile tears in the world cannot hope to wash away the cruelty and criminality of Militant Jihad's beheadings and violations of women's human rights. Sanctimonious shedding of tears is not a substitute for treating one's fellow human beings with understanding and brotherhood.
The question the West's leaders have to answer to is: how are petroleum dealings with the Jihadist countries so highly desirable that we are willing to put our arms as allies around these countries, sell them weapons of all types and sizes, and provide them with funds from our oil purchases while all the time these holier-than-thou entities are attacking us through their affiliates all around the world? Are our leaders so blinded by petroleum wealth that they are willing to lie down with the desecraters of our prized human rights?
The question the West's leaders have to answer to is: how are petroleum dealings with the Jihadist countries so highly desirable that we are willing to put our arms as allies around these countries, sell them weapons of all types and sizes, and provide them with funds from our oil purchases while all the time these holier-than-thou entities are attacking us through their affiliates all around the world? Are our leaders so blinded by petroleum wealth that they are willing to lie down with the desecraters of our prized human rights?
1
In Italy during the 70's and early 80's there were terrorists that while in the act of killing magistrates, "defectors of the cause", political opponents, and trade union members, were doing it "asking for forgiveness" at the same time of pulling the trigger. When you watch the news showing Islamic fanatics bombing historic sites (such as Palmyra for example), you hear these throat-slashers praising God when centuries of history are being leveled to the ground. Enough to cry after the event? Totally two-faced.
"Islamists view their crying as a sign of devotion to God".
That's odd - I usually understand crying as a sign of pain, loss, unhappiness, etc. Sometimes people weep with joy.
Jihadists admire each other and themselves for weeping, because they think it shows how righteous they are. But it's all a show, to justify what they're doing as they weep. It's important to know about this bizarre crying, but it's very strange to have it presented as evidence that there is a compassionate side to jihadists. To me it's the opposite - it shows how easy it is for them to negate what little capacity there is within them for empathy, using only a small dose of self-deceptive posturing.
That's odd - I usually understand crying as a sign of pain, loss, unhappiness, etc. Sometimes people weep with joy.
Jihadists admire each other and themselves for weeping, because they think it shows how righteous they are. But it's all a show, to justify what they're doing as they weep. It's important to know about this bizarre crying, but it's very strange to have it presented as evidence that there is a compassionate side to jihadists. To me it's the opposite - it shows how easy it is for them to negate what little capacity there is within them for empathy, using only a small dose of self-deceptive posturing.
2
The supposed soft power described is usually called mental conditioning or classic brainwashing. Do not try to paint it as something new but in retrospect this type of conditioning has happened in Cambodia and to a lesser degree with some tribal units. You could stretch this soft conditioning to WW2 and not only amongst the losers .
3
Where did he say it was new?
2
You'd think after America invades the wrong country (Iraq) and accidently sets the stage for the first caliphate in hundreds of years, we'd have learned our lesson and strive to better learn this enemy, yet here we still are in 2015, pushing for censorship on a very insightful piece into this enemy, because the "tone" is not to their personal liking. Truly pathetic.
4
Most people, normal people, would recoil at the mere mention of killing others to further their religious beliefs. With ISIS you have a choice: convert or be killed.
It would take psychologists their entire careers interviewing those who make the transition to militant jihad from more moderate interpretations of the sacred writings to come up with a common set of characteristics that could describe or define those most susceptible to the community this club offers it's members.
I suspect high on the list would be homicidal tendencies given free reign under cover of religious teachings. This particular characteristic is of course the most troubling. Strapping prisoners with explosives, blowing them up and video taping the event and putting it on the internet takes a special breed of psychopath. Same with beheading. Having watched a few of the videos it's interesting how they are all very similar in how they march the prisoners in line, dressed in orange jumpsuits, talk for several minutes in Arabic, then behead their victims in unison. This is all preceded by the prisoners speaking without emotion.
In the end, ISIS is a gang of thugs. They offer susceptible people a set of beliefs,community, lifestyle and structure....The problem is it is all negated by murder. Something very very sick.
It would take psychologists their entire careers interviewing those who make the transition to militant jihad from more moderate interpretations of the sacred writings to come up with a common set of characteristics that could describe or define those most susceptible to the community this club offers it's members.
I suspect high on the list would be homicidal tendencies given free reign under cover of religious teachings. This particular characteristic is of course the most troubling. Strapping prisoners with explosives, blowing them up and video taping the event and putting it on the internet takes a special breed of psychopath. Same with beheading. Having watched a few of the videos it's interesting how they are all very similar in how they march the prisoners in line, dressed in orange jumpsuits, talk for several minutes in Arabic, then behead their victims in unison. This is all preceded by the prisoners speaking without emotion.
In the end, ISIS is a gang of thugs. They offer susceptible people a set of beliefs,community, lifestyle and structure....The problem is it is all negated by murder. Something very very sick.
3
I live for music and art but I am emphatically uninterested. There's only so much time in life and my time is better spent elsewhere. They are destroying priceless antiquities (ART) and don't merit the attention.
4
Thank you for this fascinating reminder why this war will not be won solely on the battlefield. We are facing charismatic leaders and teachers with serious mental disorders as well as cultural affiliations that romanticize medievalism and barbarism. Fortunately western thought struggled with militaristic anti-enlightenment and religious anti-reason issues centuries ago and learned a few things. Those dark fetid places have long been explored and vanquished in the vast majority of modern nation-states. Jihadist religion, nihilism, poverty, misogyny, excited youth and resentfulness of power has designed a world that is ultimately toxic to themselves.
1
Not unlike evangelical and fundamentalist christianity, these islamic groups produce and disseminate their own worldview and encourage their adherents to live within it. They also accuse those who are not attracted to their concocted mythology of having a rival "religion" (check out charismanews.com is you want an example, or the organs of the church of morman). While I find the intentional ignorance of fundamentalist groups to be abh orent and beneath my contempt, it is certainly attractive to many subjectively lost, rigid, and "incomplete' individuals. By the way, I do appreciate Star Wars, but I don't have "faith" in it.
As a young Evangelical 40 years ago, weeping, visions, poetic whispers of the Holy Spirit in one's heart, and communal songs nurturing deep affectionsl bonds were all a part of the cultish experienced. So would have been imprisoning all gay people, banishing other faiths, destroying sacrilegious art and literature, and prosecuting any "deceived by Satan" enough to challenge them. I walked away from that unwise faith culture long ago, but I see that it is still present and strong in the US.
3
Interesting. Points of article are extremely valid but the goal of the research and article discussed at the end perhaps should have been mentioned earlier to help frame the discussion, which may (or may not) have prevented some of the backlash of angry comments.
I like this article because it brings up a point about ISIS, I really never considered before. Now I wonder maybe we really should also be confronting ISIS in other ways, but how?
1. How does one effectively find those who feel alienated by the West but attracted to the sub-culture of ISIS? San Bernadino showed that we're not very good at identifying these individuals. Does academic research show something different that perhaps law enforcement can learn from?
2. Even if we do identify these individuals, by the time alienation or radicalization has occurred, is it too late for a meaningful intervention to psychologically integrate them back into society? Putting all individuals in prison forever is not really sustainable or ethical.
I like this article because it brings up a point about ISIS, I really never considered before. Now I wonder maybe we really should also be confronting ISIS in other ways, but how?
1. How does one effectively find those who feel alienated by the West but attracted to the sub-culture of ISIS? San Bernadino showed that we're not very good at identifying these individuals. Does academic research show something different that perhaps law enforcement can learn from?
2. Even if we do identify these individuals, by the time alienation or radicalization has occurred, is it too late for a meaningful intervention to psychologically integrate them back into society? Putting all individuals in prison forever is not really sustainable or ethical.
2
This article is dynamite. FINALLY we see some of the positives driving these people, and yes I see it, it is profoundly alluring.
"Yes, some people join radical groups because they want to escape personal problems, avenge Western foreign policy or obey a radical doctrine. But some recruits may join because they find a cultural community and a new life that is emotionally rewarding."
See, here is the point, considering the San Bernardino shooters as an example, it is very hard to point to the usual concept of grievances as the driving forces: western imperialism, marginalized and humiliated communities and so on. The San Bernardino shooters were living the American Dream better than most of us, frankly. So what could have driven THEM?
This article describes beautiful and intoxicating features of life for those who join. I can easily see how much more satisfying this is than working as a bank teller and minding your own business. I get the weeping thing. I cry at six points in "Star Trek Two: Wrath of Khan"... every time I see it. It is a huge emotional high. I am not being snarky, tears are a sign of ecstatic joy.
So, I do not question that 'jihadis' have something wonderful. What I want to know is, how exactly do they arrive at jihad as an urgent mission.
I reject 'revenge against the West' as a driving motive. Nor I think slavish devotion to selected lines of scripture is the key. No, I think Jihad itself must be inspiring, and I wonder how, exactly.
"Yes, some people join radical groups because they want to escape personal problems, avenge Western foreign policy or obey a radical doctrine. But some recruits may join because they find a cultural community and a new life that is emotionally rewarding."
See, here is the point, considering the San Bernardino shooters as an example, it is very hard to point to the usual concept of grievances as the driving forces: western imperialism, marginalized and humiliated communities and so on. The San Bernardino shooters were living the American Dream better than most of us, frankly. So what could have driven THEM?
This article describes beautiful and intoxicating features of life for those who join. I can easily see how much more satisfying this is than working as a bank teller and minding your own business. I get the weeping thing. I cry at six points in "Star Trek Two: Wrath of Khan"... every time I see it. It is a huge emotional high. I am not being snarky, tears are a sign of ecstatic joy.
So, I do not question that 'jihadis' have something wonderful. What I want to know is, how exactly do they arrive at jihad as an urgent mission.
I reject 'revenge against the West' as a driving motive. Nor I think slavish devotion to selected lines of scripture is the key. No, I think Jihad itself must be inspiring, and I wonder how, exactly.
1
After reading a number of the comments (certainly not all), I realize why some people find this article outrageous.
It is because this essay depicts jihadists as human beings, however deluded and evil, and once you understand other people as human beings, it is more difficult to hate them. Therefore, for those who prefer to cling to their hatred rather than understand the enemy, articles like this produce outrage.
I can understand that outrage, but I also do not think it helps us to solve the thread of jihadist terrorism. This is exactly the chasm that exists between Obama's calm and reasoned approach, and the out-of-control rage expressed by the GOP right wing candidates for election.
For me, I prefer a Commander in Chief who operates on a level of thoughtful strategy, than one who thinks the solution to every threat is carpet-bombing and throwing young American bodies into battlefields from which many will return dead or permanently damaged.
It is because this essay depicts jihadists as human beings, however deluded and evil, and once you understand other people as human beings, it is more difficult to hate them. Therefore, for those who prefer to cling to their hatred rather than understand the enemy, articles like this produce outrage.
I can understand that outrage, but I also do not think it helps us to solve the thread of jihadist terrorism. This is exactly the chasm that exists between Obama's calm and reasoned approach, and the out-of-control rage expressed by the GOP right wing candidates for election.
For me, I prefer a Commander in Chief who operates on a level of thoughtful strategy, than one who thinks the solution to every threat is carpet-bombing and throwing young American bodies into battlefields from which many will return dead or permanently damaged.
6
All religions have a tendency to remove the freedom of choice from individuals, thus leaving us with systems of believes that resemble cults based on rigid frozen stiff dogmas. I do not care about any religion and I care less for Islam which has proven itself to be catastrophic for the people who follow it. No matter how we explain or justify our believes, they are nothing more than opinions based on very shaky grounds. All we need is a solid foundation in ethics. The American Constitution is based on the rational thinking of the 18th' s century French and British thinkers. They were mostly agnostic and atheists. The emphasis is on the separation of church and state is very clear in the American Constitution.
The role of the clergy in America is slowly eroding the foundation on which America is built. Freedom to worship is one thing, trying to impose one religion on an entire nation is insanely dangerous. Keep religions out of the public square all together.
No matter how skillfully each religion tries to justify itself, it's simply doesn't pass the basic ethics' 101 .
The role of the clergy in America is slowly eroding the foundation on which America is built. Freedom to worship is one thing, trying to impose one religion on an entire nation is insanely dangerous. Keep religions out of the public square all together.
No matter how skillfully each religion tries to justify itself, it's simply doesn't pass the basic ethics' 101 .
There is an appalling disconnect between the messages - "reap those heads", and "study the wisdom in your dreams."
It is easy to just interpret many dreams in a superficial, literal way, which reinforces a person's habitual, erroneous assumptions, but which totally misses the deeper meaning of the dream.
A negative, threatening dream character may sometimes be a personification of an unrealized negative aspect of the dreamer's personality. Perhaps the greatest cause of many conflicts, great and small, is the unconscious tendency, in us all, to project the shadow side of one's psyche onto other people, often disparaged as scapegoats, in the "out group".
Interpreting dreams often requires a lot of pondering to figure out personal associations to dream images, which often appear as confusing, metaphorical characters, objects and themes.
Intuitive dream explorers, throughout the ages, affirm that the wise, mysterious, "awareness behind the dreaming" is interested in truth and fairness. It seeks to guide the dreamer to deeper self-knowledge, and to develop an attitude of understanding and compassion, and to gradually come to realize the vast, harmonious, unity of all beings and things.
I recommend the following -
- "On-Line Dream work Training Manual II" by Jeremy Taylor - blurb.com
Click "Preview" to view the full document (free). Includes many imaginative illustrations. Especially see the insightful section - "Understanding Projection" beginning on page 14.
It is easy to just interpret many dreams in a superficial, literal way, which reinforces a person's habitual, erroneous assumptions, but which totally misses the deeper meaning of the dream.
A negative, threatening dream character may sometimes be a personification of an unrealized negative aspect of the dreamer's personality. Perhaps the greatest cause of many conflicts, great and small, is the unconscious tendency, in us all, to project the shadow side of one's psyche onto other people, often disparaged as scapegoats, in the "out group".
Interpreting dreams often requires a lot of pondering to figure out personal associations to dream images, which often appear as confusing, metaphorical characters, objects and themes.
Intuitive dream explorers, throughout the ages, affirm that the wise, mysterious, "awareness behind the dreaming" is interested in truth and fairness. It seeks to guide the dreamer to deeper self-knowledge, and to develop an attitude of understanding and compassion, and to gradually come to realize the vast, harmonious, unity of all beings and things.
I recommend the following -
- "On-Line Dream work Training Manual II" by Jeremy Taylor - blurb.com
Click "Preview" to view the full document (free). Includes many imaginative illustrations. Especially see the insightful section - "Understanding Projection" beginning on page 14.
This much is true. The chief languages of Muslims - Arabic, Persian and Urdu have flowery prose filled with romantic poetry. In fact, these languages are poetic prose. It is all about love, tenderness and above all Love of Allah. Somewhere along the way the jihadis brought in the anishads which were in poetic prose but the content had strayed to extreme ideology, terrorism and emotional upheaval of loss and pain. There was a lot of greatness and rewards attributed to masochism. These false words and emotions drew a quick response because the new recruits were lulled by the easily recognized poetric prose and known sounds until the y became die-hard jihadists. But I fail to understand the young recruits from the West who are much more attuned to rap and punk rock, forget any poetry and such a draconian culture. The only reason I think they are easily recruited and radicalized is because all these youths are disenfranchised.
Because be they white, black or brown, the common thread is disenfranchisement. I am sure they hate the droning anishads!
Because be they white, black or brown, the common thread is disenfranchisement. I am sure they hate the droning anishads!
8
What's described as the soft power of radical Islamist terror is partly a survival compulsion of the terror groups and largely a camouflage afforded by the Internet and social media to hoodwink the new recruits, and also conceal the real frightening face of the terror monster.
4
Islam shuns music as haram, and declares it to be obligatory on adherents of Islamic faith to wage war on non-Muslims until Islam becomes dominant. The writer should have addressed this in his essay, particularly the contradiction related to music.
1
14 years after 9/11, the West is as deeply mired as it was when it began. That the point of this article, explaining how the "Jihadist Lifestyle" can seduce disaffected youth, has fallen on such deaf ears is one of the reasons that the West can't find a way to win the War on Terror.
Sun Tzu's adage from over 2000 years ago is applicable to 21st century War on Terror as it was to warfare in ancient China: "Know your enemy and know yourself, and you will have one hundred victories in one hundred battles." Even more so, as at the heart of War on Terror is the War of Ideas. But if we are so wrapped up in disgust that we can't even be bothered to study the enduring but evolving allure of Jihadism, then we will never find a way out of this labyrinth.
Sun Tzu's adage from over 2000 years ago is applicable to 21st century War on Terror as it was to warfare in ancient China: "Know your enemy and know yourself, and you will have one hundred victories in one hundred battles." Even more so, as at the heart of War on Terror is the War of Ideas. But if we are so wrapped up in disgust that we can't even be bothered to study the enduring but evolving allure of Jihadism, then we will never find a way out of this labyrinth.
6
If I were a Muslim in today's America, I would find the author's claim that much in the ISIS world "has parallels in mainstream Muslim culture" quite alarming, not to say downright offensive. So ISIS does in fact have strong and clear roots in Islam itself? Has the author considered becoming a candidate for the Republican presidential nomination?
The rest of the article is sentimental nonsense. "Religious elation" can be found in many contexts, and is hardly confined to jihadist life. The other things whose positive side we are urged to see--the thrill of combat, the joy of comradeship--can be found in any well-functioning military unit, fighting in any cause whatever, just, unjust, or monstrous. It can also be found, for that matter, in street gangs, organized crime, or bands of pirates.
Some commenters allege that this article provides the "understanding of their world view" that will enable us to better fight the jihadists. In what way? What better way of carrying on this fight is suggested by this soft-focus sentimentalizing of horrific cruelty, bigotry, oppression, and aggression?
The rest of the article is sentimental nonsense. "Religious elation" can be found in many contexts, and is hardly confined to jihadist life. The other things whose positive side we are urged to see--the thrill of combat, the joy of comradeship--can be found in any well-functioning military unit, fighting in any cause whatever, just, unjust, or monstrous. It can also be found, for that matter, in street gangs, organized crime, or bands of pirates.
Some commenters allege that this article provides the "understanding of their world view" that will enable us to better fight the jihadists. In what way? What better way of carrying on this fight is suggested by this soft-focus sentimentalizing of horrific cruelty, bigotry, oppression, and aggression?
3
The weeping reminds me of Gunter Grass's World War II novel, "Tin Drum" where there is a bar that Oscar visits where onions stimulate the patrons' maudlin, sentimental cry fest. Maybe ISIS has a similar establishment?
OK, great, these Slaughterers still go the bathroom like the rest of us.
Now can we destroy them? Please?
Now can we destroy them? Please?
4
This article would be shameless if it weren't so blatantly bizarre and self-satirizing. ISIS and the Taliban have their own cherished and distinctive art, style, and culture? Of course they do, and so has every murderous regime or ruthless totalitarian movement from Temujin, Tamerlane, and the Conquistadors to Hitler and Stalin.
2
Excellent article. Don't understand the negative reaction to it.Let's go eradicate them!
2
ISIS is not an army that is conscripted by a government and can be defeated on a battlefield. It relies on volunteers, so the recruiting effort is essential. We will know we are near victory when their recruiting diminishes and they cannot replace their suicide bombers. Until then, killing them makes martyrs and aids their recruiting drive.
We know that some recruits become disillusioned and return home, and we should work on increasing their number. We should also encourage Muslims to develop an alternative Islam that can satisfy the urges and desires used by ISIS to recruit. Other Muslims should be doing this on their own, but they dont seem to be. Where is the CIA when we need it?
We know that some recruits become disillusioned and return home, and we should work on increasing their number. We should also encourage Muslims to develop an alternative Islam that can satisfy the urges and desires used by ISIS to recruit. Other Muslims should be doing this on their own, but they dont seem to be. Where is the CIA when we need it?
1
I can imagine their music, poetry and other "art" all have a striking similar if not the same theme. Praise Alah, glory to Alah and so on. It's hard to express art when transgressions get you stoned to death. I have no desire to understand them unless it helps us find and kill them more quickly.
8
The outright absurdity of this article is beyond my comprhension. Am I to beleive that ISIS has a heart and soul or a moralality I didn't previously understand. They are murderers of innocents and children and need to defeated until not one of them can inflict pain and suffering on others. They can share their art, poetry and music in heaven with the 70 virgins waiting to cater to their every need.
13
Most people know that a thorough understanding of the enemy is a huge help in defeating that enemy. There is nothing more absurd than going off to fight an enemy about whom nothing is known except his bad deeds. ISIS has an appeal we do not understand very well, and this article is an attempt to fix that so we can develop more effective strategies than just defeating them because they are murderers. Perhaps we could get Weird Al to parody some of their hits (although if he did he would probably need police protection).
6
Spare me the Soft Jihad, spare me the communal sobbing of radical Islamists, spare me cute sartorial get-ups among the Jihadis, spare me their poetry - "Go reap their heads!", oh, spare me their dreams of paradise and a capella hymns. I have no empathy for the Islamic State adherents and addicts. No empathy for those whose joy comes from the beheadings of their enemies. Paradise and empathy are right here on earth, men and women of the New Caliphate. Why have you no faint glimmering of that truth in your soul-less, playful and emotionally intense lives?
14
Attempting to humanize these terrorists reminds me of the back stories of Nazis. When they weren't out rounding up and murdering Jews, Gypsies, Slavs, Gays, and others, they enjoyed watching Wagner operas, painting, dancing, and drinking beer. They were people just like you and me. Except they were sadistic murderers.
14
Some of what is written reminds of various subcultures in the US (most of which are not dangerous). It reminds me of "urban gang" culture (can't think of a better word at the moment) which is and offers its adherents fashion, music, friendship. meaning, etc. , though often misguided. Might this author and we learn from people who have studied and worked with such groups? E.g gang prevention efforts.
6
From the opinion: For radical Islamists who view crying as a sign of devotion to God, communal sobbing is as common as car bombing.
This had me chuckling. Who'd of thought a discussion about the Islamic State could do that? IS even takes our western sense of irony and re-calibrate it for new outrage
This had me chuckling. Who'd of thought a discussion about the Islamic State could do that? IS even takes our western sense of irony and re-calibrate it for new outrage
5
I rely on interpretation of the Koran and from what I’ve read Jihad is a formless striving to be God like. From Encyclopedia Britannica’s article Mohammedan Criticism of Christianity:
“In addition to the five Pillars, Muslims are enjoined to jihad. This means ‘striving’ or ‘exerting oneself’, in the Way of God. Today jihad is usually translated as ‘holy war’, although there is nothing in the word to indicate that the striving is to be carried out by the sword or the tongue or any other method. What the Koran does say (ii, 190) is: ‘And fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you but be not aggressive. Surely Allah loves not the aggressive.’ Fighting is clearly limited to fighting in defense.” ..." Nowhere does the Koran command Muslims to propagate their faith by the sword." So it seems to me there are a many, many, many corrupting the teachings of Mohammad and therefor Islam. Why is that tolerated by Mohammedans? I seems there should be banishment for those corrupting the Word.
“In addition to the five Pillars, Muslims are enjoined to jihad. This means ‘striving’ or ‘exerting oneself’, in the Way of God. Today jihad is usually translated as ‘holy war’, although there is nothing in the word to indicate that the striving is to be carried out by the sword or the tongue or any other method. What the Koran does say (ii, 190) is: ‘And fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you but be not aggressive. Surely Allah loves not the aggressive.’ Fighting is clearly limited to fighting in defense.” ..." Nowhere does the Koran command Muslims to propagate their faith by the sword." So it seems to me there are a many, many, many corrupting the teachings of Mohammad and therefor Islam. Why is that tolerated by Mohammedans? I seems there should be banishment for those corrupting the Word.
4
While much could have been done in this piece to clarify its intent--and to define its tone--the fact that there is so much resistance in these comments to understanding "the other" should tell us something about why radicalism succeeds.
Of course dreams inform the Jihadist reality. Muhammad was led by his own dream revelations. In fact, all religious leaders and prophets, Abrahamic or not, claim to arrive through the sublime. This isn't news (until it's printed in the Times).
The author would have done well to anticipate his audience, to step back and edify us further here: "...much of it [jihadism] has parallels in mainstream Muslim culture."
So let's start by understanding Islam and the Arab world, and then untangle that culture from it's radical arm (which, by even this article, is a myopic cult, not some "rich cultural universe"). Convince us first that radicalism is only an arm and not the overwhelming corpus. Because the only narrative America currently believe is the hard side, the overwhelming, the remarkably bleak, the moralistic and dogmatic.
Of course dreams inform the Jihadist reality. Muhammad was led by his own dream revelations. In fact, all religious leaders and prophets, Abrahamic or not, claim to arrive through the sublime. This isn't news (until it's printed in the Times).
The author would have done well to anticipate his audience, to step back and edify us further here: "...much of it [jihadism] has parallels in mainstream Muslim culture."
So let's start by understanding Islam and the Arab world, and then untangle that culture from it's radical arm (which, by even this article, is a myopic cult, not some "rich cultural universe"). Convince us first that radicalism is only an arm and not the overwhelming corpus. Because the only narrative America currently believe is the hard side, the overwhelming, the remarkably bleak, the moralistic and dogmatic.
17
Thank you Thomas Hegghammer.
Your article was instructive.
I think it helps all of us to "fine tune" our perspectives.
Your article was instructive.
I think it helps all of us to "fine tune" our perspectives.
The biggest problem with this article is in the title. I have to give the author the benefit of the doubt and assume that the title was not his, but an editor's "brilliant" idea. For one thing, Mr. Hegghammer never uses the phrase "softer side" in the article itself.
As far as the article, it should be no surprise at all that radical movements try to develop a unique culture to "brand" their movement, and how better to do that than to immerse their adherents in words, music, drama, etc. because these arts also help create a collective sense of identity. And let's face it, among jihadists, this sense of collective identity is an absolute necessity for them to survive and grow.
For the naysayers, this article does serve a useful purpose, because any good general will tell you that to defeat the enemy, the more you know about who they really are, the better you can defeat or at least neutralize them.
As far as the article, it should be no surprise at all that radical movements try to develop a unique culture to "brand" their movement, and how better to do that than to immerse their adherents in words, music, drama, etc. because these arts also help create a collective sense of identity. And let's face it, among jihadists, this sense of collective identity is an absolute necessity for them to survive and grow.
For the naysayers, this article does serve a useful purpose, because any good general will tell you that to defeat the enemy, the more you know about who they really are, the better you can defeat or at least neutralize them.
2
I'm glad to see this type of article in the NY Times. We do need to understand the motivation and culture of radical Jihad.
I must say however that I was not terribly surprised to read about the softer side of Jihad or of the emotional commitment of its devote adherents. Students of history know that the Nazis had "stirring" music and "a cappella hymms" sung by choirs of youths. Think about the scene from Casablanca when the Nazis patriotic song is drowned out by the French expats singing la Marseillaise.
Just like the storm troopers of the SS marching off to war singing or the "Volk" enjoying Nazi art and music and worshiping arian religion, the jihadi's of Al Qaeda and ISIL are similarly moved by their brand of Islamic "culture".
It is not surprising that young men and women are taken in by this sort of camaraderie and dedication to a cause. Especially if the dominant culture that they live in offers no opportunity for respect, employment, eduction and cultural fulfillment.
That being said however we need recognize that this sort of youthful devotion is very dangerous and destructive. Marching off to war kills many and damages everyone who goes and survives in some way. We need to work to stop the kind of youthful alienation that make this sort of aberration possible by offering all young people better alternatives to revenge, religious rewards in the afterlife and doctrinaire beliefs.
Regardless of the religious or ideological doctrine zealotry is dangerous
I must say however that I was not terribly surprised to read about the softer side of Jihad or of the emotional commitment of its devote adherents. Students of history know that the Nazis had "stirring" music and "a cappella hymms" sung by choirs of youths. Think about the scene from Casablanca when the Nazis patriotic song is drowned out by the French expats singing la Marseillaise.
Just like the storm troopers of the SS marching off to war singing or the "Volk" enjoying Nazi art and music and worshiping arian religion, the jihadi's of Al Qaeda and ISIL are similarly moved by their brand of Islamic "culture".
It is not surprising that young men and women are taken in by this sort of camaraderie and dedication to a cause. Especially if the dominant culture that they live in offers no opportunity for respect, employment, eduction and cultural fulfillment.
That being said however we need recognize that this sort of youthful devotion is very dangerous and destructive. Marching off to war kills many and damages everyone who goes and survives in some way. We need to work to stop the kind of youthful alienation that make this sort of aberration possible by offering all young people better alternatives to revenge, religious rewards in the afterlife and doctrinaire beliefs.
Regardless of the religious or ideological doctrine zealotry is dangerous
3
I have the same questions as to why anyone would join the United States military, following their well-documented history of horrors in Indochina, Latin America and the Middle East.
I suspect the answers are very much the same: a sense of camaraderie, relief from boredom, religious ecstasy and peak experiences, thirst for violence.
I suspect the answers are very much the same: a sense of camaraderie, relief from boredom, religious ecstasy and peak experiences, thirst for violence.
4
Voiceofamerica, you seem to be implying a moral equivalence between the U.S. military and ISIS. Americans in uniform have committed atrocities, and sometimes they escaped punishment, as at My Lai. These outrages stem from personal shortcomings on the part of the personnel involved, but also from the intense pressures and chaotic environment of warfare. It is also true that American policy, in the form of indiscriminate bombing and mistreatment of civilians, as well as torture of captives, has contributed to atrocities.
That said, the U.S. military does not follow a policy aimed at brutalizing and destroying populations, even those hostile to us. ISIS, on the other hand, seeks to eliminate any group outside its narrow definition of orthodoxy. Your glib statement to the effect that Americans crave the kind of violent fulfillment that motivates ISIS recruits, while possibly true in some cases, insults men and women who put their lives on the line to protect this country.
This kind of casual cynicism about the motives of people you don't even know, while it may sound trendy in today's environment, in fact is beneath contempt.
That said, the U.S. military does not follow a policy aimed at brutalizing and destroying populations, even those hostile to us. ISIS, on the other hand, seeks to eliminate any group outside its narrow definition of orthodoxy. Your glib statement to the effect that Americans crave the kind of violent fulfillment that motivates ISIS recruits, while possibly true in some cases, insults men and women who put their lives on the line to protect this country.
This kind of casual cynicism about the motives of people you don't even know, while it may sound trendy in today's environment, in fact is beneath contempt.
6
Hitler was never a father and married only before a suicide pact on his last full day of life. He was a vegetarian and in his mind, an artist. He was also a psychopathic mass exterminator. He simply got most of the males in his nation to assemble as a gang. These guys are assembling the gang first, the nation later.
Looking forward to an a cappella production of "Springtime for ISIS."
Looking forward to an a cappella production of "Springtime for ISIS."
9
NYT: The admiring and soft-core marketing tone of this piece is repulsive. For those who don't understand why this article crosses the line, try substituting Nazi or KKK or equivalent and see what that looks like. Header: "Nazism's softer side" Sub-header: "Nazism isn’t just death and destruction. It’s also about fashion, poetry, music and dream interpretation." It is possible to write intelligently about the allure of an abhorrent ideology without descending into slick jihadist porn. NYT apparently has no sensitivity at all for the multitudes of their victims, as shown by this shameless effort to capture eyeballs.
19
I would like to hear more psychologists weighing in on these people who I suspect have intense anger at heart, perhaps due to some kind of suffering, or maybe it is genetic? I often wonder if all these "haters", including racists, rapists, mass shooters, those who are cruel to animals, etc., could be put in one category that is based more on their internal feelings and less on their targets.
2
Do they weep while they rape?
10
Part of his soft side - the guy is known to play Dashboard Confessional in his Toyota pickup on the way to Jihad.
5
Anyone notice the NYT's headline change to "The Soft Power of Militant Jihad?" I'm on my Blackberry, was on my laptop before so not 100% sure now but I'm pretty sure that is in response to many comments.
10
The fact that ideologies we abhor offer something to their adherents is not news. Anyone remember the Nazis? And what about the elegance of the ante-bellum South supported by slavery? It had its loyalists.
There is Interesting information in this article, but from the standpoint of the psychology of cults, there is nothing new here.
There is Interesting information in this article, but from the standpoint of the psychology of cults, there is nothing new here.
8
Unless they have a reverence for life their theology makes no sense no mater how emotional they appear when not cutting off heads.
5
The author of this article might want to chat with a 21-year-old Yazidi woman, Nadia Murad Basee Taha, described her experience of being an ISIS sex slave in front of the United Nations Security Council and ask her what should be done with them and how to defeat them.
12
I'm a bleeding heart liberal who believes socialism is great.
I don't understand the desire to humanize and empathize with everything. These people have given up their humanity. Not in the way we liberals say Ted Cruz and his ilk have given up humanity. I think those guys are bigoted and cold hearted, and the NYTimes staff is merciless in their reporting on them. But now we're showing the softer side of ISIS?
Not everything has a lighter side, and for some evil there is no redemption. I don't care how well this guy can construct a sonnet.
I don't understand the desire to humanize and empathize with everything. These people have given up their humanity. Not in the way we liberals say Ted Cruz and his ilk have given up humanity. I think those guys are bigoted and cold hearted, and the NYTimes staff is merciless in their reporting on them. But now we're showing the softer side of ISIS?
Not everything has a lighter side, and for some evil there is no redemption. I don't care how well this guy can construct a sonnet.
15
Based on these comments, I reckon the sand is running out of room for heads.
2
This is disgusting. It may be important to understand, at an analytical level, their culture. But to admire it is simply beyond the pale.
Printing the information might be excusable, the style is not.
It is an abuse of the arts to use them to bring inner peace to those who have caused so much suffering. I'd be happy, however, to see those people introduced to a purer and more permanent form of inner peace.
Printing the information might be excusable, the style is not.
It is an abuse of the arts to use them to bring inner peace to those who have caused so much suffering. I'd be happy, however, to see those people introduced to a purer and more permanent form of inner peace.
9
"When jihadis aren’t fighting — which is most of the time — they enjoy storytelling and watching films, cooking and swimming. "
I understand that the author is showing the appeal of jihadism, but perhaps he could have done the same thing without making it sound like a singles ad.
I understand that the author is showing the appeal of jihadism, but perhaps he could have done the same thing without making it sound like a singles ad.
14
"Jihadi life is emotionally intense, filled with the thrill of combat, the sorrow of loss, the joy of camaraderie and the elation of religious experience." This really does read like promotional material.
14
I agree. And what sweeping generalizations. Truly lyric and truly bad journalism.
1
As a practicing contemplative, weeping is actually very common in many forms of prayer and amongst those who are especially devotional regardless of religion.
Just because many in the West might associate sobbing with weakness does not mean weak people cry. Quite the opposite actually. Those that can reach those emotional peaks and troughs are usually people of quite some gumption.
Some of it has to do with the cathartic processes involved in weeping and prayer. Some of it has to do with the psychonoetic properties underlying what's actually occurring.
Just because many in the West might associate sobbing with weakness does not mean weak people cry. Quite the opposite actually. Those that can reach those emotional peaks and troughs are usually people of quite some gumption.
Some of it has to do with the cathartic processes involved in weeping and prayer. Some of it has to do with the psychonoetic properties underlying what's actually occurring.
2
"When jihadis aren’t fighting — which is most of the time — they enjoy storytelling and watching films, cooking and swimming."
Huh? Are you kidding me?! I don't care whether they like swimming or cooking or knitting or whatever. They're not Martha Stewart. They're brainwashed murderous zealots. They're notion of paradise is institutionalized rape, murder, pillage, and the oppression of freedom and education. And they have the gall to believe in their sanctity. They're idealogy should be lampooned and their hypocrisy exposed. And, if they attack us, they need to be imprisoned or killed.
Huh? Are you kidding me?! I don't care whether they like swimming or cooking or knitting or whatever. They're not Martha Stewart. They're brainwashed murderous zealots. They're notion of paradise is institutionalized rape, murder, pillage, and the oppression of freedom and education. And they have the gall to believe in their sanctity. They're idealogy should be lampooned and their hypocrisy exposed. And, if they attack us, they need to be imprisoned or killed.
11
You forgot the most alluring pastime that they are given: raping the local female populace
12
Well now, aren't they just a special bunch of psychopathic, murderous hypocrites.
It sounds like a really good idea to understand and "know" your enemy, but really, I think my take on these idiots would have been more than adequate had I never read this article.
Perhaps some of this background information could be valuable for "spy craft", but for me, not so much.
It sounds like a really good idea to understand and "know" your enemy, but really, I think my take on these idiots would have been more than adequate had I never read this article.
Perhaps some of this background information could be valuable for "spy craft", but for me, not so much.
7
This article is so bizarre on so many levels- what is the point? To show that murderers also have a human side? It does not change anything to know that Zarqawi could cry about poetry minutes after sawing someone's head off with a sharp knife. There is nothing new about the ability of humans to split themselves off into two seemingly different individuals. In fact psychiatrist Robert Lifton delved into this fact regarding Nazi doctors and their ability to split themselves off into seemingly two different persons. “The doctor’s [special, or especially frequent and intense] danger, we now see, lies in his capacity to double in a way that brings special power to his killing self even as he continues to anoint himself with medical purity.” Thus, the Nazi doctor presents an emblematic instance of “a universal human proclivity toward constructing good motives [for oneself] while participating in evil behavior.” These Isis members engage in the same sort of behaviors- by killing in one situation, and then engaging in music, poetry readings, or metaphysical discussions they delude themselves into believing they are in fact contributing to a new world, one built upon goodness and creativity. They perceive their killing of innocent others as a mere 'expunging' of those who would deny them their Caliphate. What the rest of us see as the vile murderers of a death blood cult, they view as a necessary cleansing.
9
I think I prefer elimination to interpretation, thank you!
4
Now, everyone has long been calling on the world Muslim community to do the heavy lifting in calling out the fanatics. I'm not really sure how well such Muslims are faring in their efforts, but this article has surely pulled the rug right out from under them.
2
To me, it is like any "cult", such as Jonestown multiplied.
7
This article is an embarrassment to the human race. Sure these Jihadis were born with blood pulsing through them, hearts beating and early interests in colors, numbers, music, math and all of the other interests young children cultivate to master in their lives. I doubt anyone questions that a jihadi may be interested in the arts, sports, or archery. What does it matter? Their end is to kill humanity. They do not practice the humanity and grace of any religion whether it be islam, christianity or judaism. They are a nihilistic, violent group of sociopaths whose desired end is the end of humanity, of the world. Is there no restraint and cautiousness in journalism? I would not want my young impressionable teenagers to read this and I am saddened that there is propoganda published in a respectable newspaper. Stop the madness, media. You too have responsibility-perhaps the greatest.
11
For those stating that this piece is valuable insight into the mind of our enemies, I say fine, but this exercise in exploration belongs in CIA memorandums on psy-ops, not as kind of redemptive whitewash on the front page of the NYT.
14
No real surprise that those who indulge in such a barbaric, nihilistic orgy of murder seek to beautify themselves with words and song.
How is that any different from those who used religious fervor to not only JUSTIFY their carnage but to demand that God has BLESSED them
How is that any different from those who used religious fervor to not only JUSTIFY their carnage but to demand that God has BLESSED them
3
Nazi culture provided the same sick, schizophrenic narcissism that fostered four part choral singing (with tears) after mutilating Jews and Slavs and Gypsies. It should surprise no one that Daesh consists of the same dreck.
9
The author poses the question: "Why have tens of thousands of people from around the world chosen to live under the Islamic State’s draconian rule and fight under its black flag?". "People"? "People" reflects a wide and varied population. We are talking about an overwhelmingly male population who follow Sunni Islam. No doubt, there is more to these terrorists than just killing and raping people. However, I can't believe that you would join a terrorist group - knowing that you would be required to kill people - because deep down you are a poetry fanatic. No doubt about it, art in many forms can be used to make political and cultural statements. The art here is about jihad - which is about killing people - especially all non-Sunni people. There is no softer side.
7
An obvious omission by the author is the role that the opportunity for sex plays in ISIS recruitment. It has been widely indicated that young male misfits are drawn to ISIS for the opportunity that they otherwise do not have to be with women that ISIS makes available as brides or sex slaves. Young women recruits undoubtedly are also attracted by the opportunity to have husbands.
7
While I do not see this as a defense of ISIS the tone of the article makes me feel as though you are trying to paint an empathic picture, or some how make the reader feel that they are just like us. Is the intent to frighten us by revealing the "normalcy" of these individuals? I think the wounds of our society are too fresh to be able to accept this message, I can see how folks would be offended. No matter how alluring it is safe to say that everyone by now knows the objective is to destroy and to heinously kill anyone who does conform to their ideology. There is no mistaking that the end result will be the same, it is a choice that one makes to join, you cannot hide from that behind any suggestion of "culture".
8
Don't people realize that "Militant Jihad's Softer Side" was not written by Thomas Hegghammer but by a headline writer who is just poking a hornets nest on the Friday afternoon news cycle? To elicit exactly the sort of off-the-wall comments we see here? As for Hegghammer himself, his anti-terror credentials speak for themselves, so unless you've done more, back off.
And I'm sorry for the people who don't want to recognize the humanity of the foe. Why do you suppose that soldiers who have fought and killed in battle usually come to have feelings of brotherhood for the enemy, even as they're shooting, stabbing, or strangling one another? (Hint: they are no different, ultimately, than us). Jihadis are not animals; those who think so are sadder than fools.
And I'm sorry for the people who don't want to recognize the humanity of the foe. Why do you suppose that soldiers who have fought and killed in battle usually come to have feelings of brotherhood for the enemy, even as they're shooting, stabbing, or strangling one another? (Hint: they are no different, ultimately, than us). Jihadis are not animals; those who think so are sadder than fools.
4
Speak for yourself. I for one am not interested in burning someone alive in a cage, cutting off peoples heads or buying a sex slave...perhaps you are but I'm not.
5
Who's the fool here?
3
In 40 years or so when Radical Islam is all but a faded memory except for those who had to suffer its inhumanity, perhaps our grandchildren will find some historical interest in the "softer side" of jihadist militants. But until then, I see absolutely no value in extending any sort of sociocultural interest in these fanatical murders, or any need to offer empathetic consideration to these barbarians in order to understand them. I just rather they disappear from the face of the earth.
26
I'm afraid radical Islam will still be with us 40 years hence and much worse than today thanks in no small part to the self-hating defeatist ideology of western liberalism which seems to compliment the Ismalist ideology of conquest so perfectly.
2
One word for the 'wheepers' when not in the 'killing mode' of innocent folks: hypocrites.
1
Music, poetry and dream interpretation can all be used unite people under banners of magical thinking. There is no "softer side" to this sort of extremism.
2
I agree that it is important to understand the enemy by studying all aspects of their lives and culture. Just as wealthy Brits like over half of the Mitford family were attracted to Hitler (and they were actually cousins on Winston Churchill) it helps to read about why they were drawn in to be able to understand and hopefully counteract the attraction of young people to Militant Jihad. As the picture shows, not all of them are of Middle Eastern descent. This young man is a French Canadian, most of whom are Catholic.
1
If one reads between the lines of this article you will see that these methods are a form of brain-washing. For instance, the lines quoted from the poet A. al-Nasr,
as a prescription to down Christianity and "go reap ... heads." For an in-depth collection of articles and arguments and debates about true Islam I refer the reader to FaithFreemdom dot org.
as a prescription to down Christianity and "go reap ... heads." For an in-depth collection of articles and arguments and debates about true Islam I refer the reader to FaithFreemdom dot org.
Good article. Perhaps still scratching on the surface of the problem and not telling what makes some people more subject than others to the ideological fascination of a middle ages culture (the middle ages were ripe with sounds, color and poetry). There should be more of this. It is sad to witness the ostrich's parody of those counting on prejudice, ignorance and bombs as the only tools for fighting terrorism.
2
A picture is worth a thousand words.
Just look at the handsome face of young André Poulin and ponder the mystery of what motivates a young Canadian to join the jihad.
A warped "Spanish Civil War" for his generation of misguided young idealists?
Thanks for the article. It helps shed light on this phenomenon.
Just look at the handsome face of young André Poulin and ponder the mystery of what motivates a young Canadian to join the jihad.
A warped "Spanish Civil War" for his generation of misguided young idealists?
Thanks for the article. It helps shed light on this phenomenon.
3
The people who are criticizing the article aren't digesting its crucially important piece of information. The jihadis in addition to their other techniques, also seduce members and sustain the organization with music, tears, camaraderie, poetry, emotional support, a feeling of belonging, in a more culturally comprehensive way than previously thought, thus creating a much more challenging enemy than generally perceived. This is an eyeopening and complex insight that those who deal with combating them need to understand.
27
Oh yeah, "eyeopening." I think many people already know these things.
4
Depth psychologists know that dreams contain the reality of the unconscious dimension of one’s personality which can provide insight and self-understanding for the dreamer. To benefit from a dream, the person needs to enter into a relationship with it. For example, if someone has a big dream featuring a prominent figure of some sort, s/he may well benefit from engaging that figure in a dialogue, just as one would with a respected other person who comes with something he or she feels needs to be known. It is having this active relationship of getting to know your own depths that offers greater consciousness.
It’s been my sense that people identified with extreme religious dogma are highly lacking in consciousness. They are identified with the unconscious, not in relationship with it. This is the realm of the psychotic. This is the reality of the jihadist: psychic possession by great forces in the unconscious with which they have no conscious relationship.
If humanity was collectively capable of living in relationship with the unconscious, if only people were able to live out of active, daily interaction with the world of the dream, then there would probably be no cosmic war. Humanity is experiencing a great psychic nightmare with no capability of constructively dealing with it. The world is essentially unconscious and that’s not going to change much for a very long time.
It’s been my sense that people identified with extreme religious dogma are highly lacking in consciousness. They are identified with the unconscious, not in relationship with it. This is the realm of the psychotic. This is the reality of the jihadist: psychic possession by great forces in the unconscious with which they have no conscious relationship.
If humanity was collectively capable of living in relationship with the unconscious, if only people were able to live out of active, daily interaction with the world of the dream, then there would probably be no cosmic war. Humanity is experiencing a great psychic nightmare with no capability of constructively dealing with it. The world is essentially unconscious and that’s not going to change much for a very long time.
2
Brilliant piece. We cannot "carpet bomb" ISIS and expect that the culture and ideas that attract people will go away. Ideas don't need visas to cross borders, oceans or continents. Take note all ye who think stopping those of the Muslim faith from coming to the US will keep us safe.
2
This article was very informative. I don't think it useful to label all of those who fall into ISIS as simply monsters as some commentators have done. Nothing is ever that simple. I still don't understand how western people join up with ISIS. Perhaps I am too removed from the situation to ever understand. Yet I do feel a little more enlightened.
To defeat ones enemy you must try to understand him. I am glad this author is trying to learn more about ISIS. I hope this information can be used to rid the world of this scourge.
To defeat ones enemy you must try to understand him. I am glad this author is trying to learn more about ISIS. I hope this information can be used to rid the world of this scourge.
2
the most effective way to combat this is for interested parties to really understand what this really is, the worst study aboard experience ever, simple as that (and not trying to be ironic or humorous)
1
This opinion is lefty garbage run amok. To give a human face to an enemy that would like nothing better to convert or kill us is offensive and disgusting.
The fact that radical Muslims like poetry and have a tendency to ball their eyes out proves how brainwashed they really are by their version of Islam. I'm sure they also love their children and their pets and even cry when they watch bootleg copies of Titanic. Radical Islam is a perversion - nothing more than religious psychosis.
The fact that radical Muslims like poetry and have a tendency to ball their eyes out proves how brainwashed they really are by their version of Islam. I'm sure they also love their children and their pets and even cry when they watch bootleg copies of Titanic. Radical Islam is a perversion - nothing more than religious psychosis.
5
People are always so much more complicated than "good" and "evil," and understanding "the other" usually takes more effort than most of us are willing to expend. That's why stereotypes are so prevalent; we can put our brains on automatic and not think too hard. Unfortunately, most of the time we're wrong. There's almost always more to the story than we know or are told.
19
This piece did not tell me "more to the story." If I thought about it (if I cared) I would imagine that Jihadists make their own music and rhymes (stripped of the ability to listen to anything else) and dream their own dreams. The impulse to create music or make sense of nonsense (or life) with words is inherent I believe and I attribute it to all peoples. And?
3
how does knowing that some of them like to cook, sing or write poetry really change anything about how evil they are?
1
My thinking has been that Radical Islam is born out of a sense of adolescent nihilism, fostered by a sense of hopelessness and alienation. I feel like this essay supports my thinking, and adds further rationale as to why terrorist groups like daish continue to spread--community, kinship, and purpose for the lost.
20
Could not believe what I was reading. Thought I was missing the point, thankfully most were as confounded as myself. Why is it so important to portray these murderers as anything except what they are?
5
1) Because this IS part of what they are and 2) They are trying to kill us. A lot of people are trying to say "I don't want to know all this stuff about them". That's just too bad. They are a danger to the international scene and we can only beat them if we understand them. It's not going to work to just tell the soldiers "Kill the Bad Guys". We have been doing that for decades, and there are more of them now than ever. As citizens, we need to understand these monsters, so we can vote intelligently to select the person who will best defeat them.
And I just thought they were simply vicious sadistic murderers. Who knew they were such sweethearts?...Shame on me.
7
"In short, jihadism offers its adherents a rich cultural universe in which they can immerse themselves."
This is an entirely subjective statement, presumably reflecting the author's opinion, and shows a startling lack of journalistic objectivity, even for an opinion piece.
Is a culture "rich" in which a man is beheaded for proclaiming a dissenting opinion, or a woman stoned for going to school? Is a culture "rich" which precludes freedom of expression upon pain of death?
"Rich"?... "Rich cultural universe", even?
If this is indeed the author's belief, he's going to need more than 1,200 words and a cozy picture to substantiate his opinion.
Incidentally, if any society aspires to foster a rich culture, may I recommend (a mere) 45 words to get started:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
This is an entirely subjective statement, presumably reflecting the author's opinion, and shows a startling lack of journalistic objectivity, even for an opinion piece.
Is a culture "rich" in which a man is beheaded for proclaiming a dissenting opinion, or a woman stoned for going to school? Is a culture "rich" which precludes freedom of expression upon pain of death?
"Rich"?... "Rich cultural universe", even?
If this is indeed the author's belief, he's going to need more than 1,200 words and a cozy picture to substantiate his opinion.
Incidentally, if any society aspires to foster a rich culture, may I recommend (a mere) 45 words to get started:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
8
A pathetic attempt to make savages sound normal. A person or a group should be defined by its worst actions, not the best. Even Hitler loved some people and was nice to them.
5
All I care about is how to turn "he who weeps a lot" into "he who was on the losing side". This will not be accomplished with empathetic analysis.
5
ISIS is attractive because, right now, they're winning. Start inflicting serious damage on them and see how long their appeal lasts.
3
Fashion? Burkas offer such a narrow choice as to smother and in hot climates stifle.
Music? Religious hymns are all well and good, but not nearly enough to truly nourish the soul and enlighten a being.
Poetry? Well the resonance of a magnificent poem is in fact a lot deeper and richer than sticking to only Allah-based literature.
What a poor, narrow, blinding and fearful world jihadists, and all fundamentalists for that matter, have with their heads in the sand afraid to spread their wings and seek true enlightenment.
Remember spirituality is a personal journey and investigation. It cannot be obtained via a spoon fed oppressive story line.
Try Animism the world will benefit.
Music? Religious hymns are all well and good, but not nearly enough to truly nourish the soul and enlighten a being.
Poetry? Well the resonance of a magnificent poem is in fact a lot deeper and richer than sticking to only Allah-based literature.
What a poor, narrow, blinding and fearful world jihadists, and all fundamentalists for that matter, have with their heads in the sand afraid to spread their wings and seek true enlightenment.
Remember spirituality is a personal journey and investigation. It cannot be obtained via a spoon fed oppressive story line.
Try Animism the world will benefit.
4
I thought I was reading the Onion for a second. While there is useful and interesting information in this article, it's tone is very odd. The tone of the article might be ok for academia but for "the paper of record" it just does not scan right. Maybe it's a generational thing.
8
I had to read this multiple times, unsure of whether it was meant to be a farce. It was funny until I realized the author was quite serious.
Tribes share qualities. That's what bonds. But in this case it's hardly in step with a "rich cultural universe," and nothing about the cultural artifacts described in this piece are "soft." Monsters can cry, too. So what?
"Shake the throne of the cross, and Extinguish the fire of the Zoroastrians / Strike down every adversity, and go reap those heads.”
That's not culture, folks. That's a cult.
Tribes share qualities. That's what bonds. But in this case it's hardly in step with a "rich cultural universe," and nothing about the cultural artifacts described in this piece are "soft." Monsters can cry, too. So what?
"Shake the throne of the cross, and Extinguish the fire of the Zoroastrians / Strike down every adversity, and go reap those heads.”
That's not culture, folks. That's a cult.
36
Labeling doesn't help much. What substitute is the West offering that could compete? Jobs? Nicer toys? Peace and tolerance?
Compare to Psalm 137:9
Happy shall he be that takes and dashes your infants against the stones.
Or 1st Samuel 15:3
Now go and smite Amalek and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
Or Matthew 10:34
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
It's not hard to find poetic lines in the Bible that offer sentiments similar to the ISIS poetry. The line between cult and culture is an ever shifting mirage dependent on the revised or imagined history of a presumed victor.
Happy shall he be that takes and dashes your infants against the stones.
Or 1st Samuel 15:3
Now go and smite Amalek and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
Or Matthew 10:34
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
It's not hard to find poetic lines in the Bible that offer sentiments similar to the ISIS poetry. The line between cult and culture is an ever shifting mirage dependent on the revised or imagined history of a presumed victor.
So we're going to humanize terrorists now? Everybody has a soft side, but not everybody loves KILLING for the good of JIHAD.
3
I do not understand, nor believe, the "human" side of the Jihadist, no matter what your high intellectuals are telling us. That is, until them jihadist stop cutting other people's head off, or blown themselves up. They are barbarians, no matter how many poets they read.
4
Well, I'm deeply moved that these brave young men are so in touch with their emotions and so culturally enriched when they're not burning captives alive, stoning women to death, and throwing gay men out of fourth-story windows.
Red O. Greene, Albuquerque, NM, USA
Red O. Greene, Albuquerque, NM, USA
7
Don't humanize a barbaric and dehumanizing culture. The Nazi's had a very effective culture in sending millions of people to their grave. Listen to some of their songs. Hitler Youth sang their way into battle to be ultimately slaughtered too.
3
Next, how about a piece on the stream of consciousness that was going on through the minds of the 9/11 hijackers? Portray them as peerless, audacious men, fueled and steeled with poetry before the the twin towers absorbed them?
Anything can be 'understood' NYT. The question is should it be. This will just soften our country's resolve and you have just written a highly effective recruiting ad for the enemy. Congratulations NYT!
Anything can be 'understood' NYT. The question is should it be. This will just soften our country's resolve and you have just written a highly effective recruiting ad for the enemy. Congratulations NYT!
2
Reducing followers of ISIS to two-dimensional "monsters," the aim of all war propaganda, so we can kill them without qualms is the mirror image of what they are doing with us--viewing us as two-dimensional "crusaders" or "infidel degenerates" so they can kill us without qualms. Humans remain humans regardless of how misguided they are. Killing some of them under certain extreme circumstances will never be anything but a regrettable necessity.
1
Of course there are "softer" sides to Al Qaeda and ISIS. That is part of their appeal: they are all encompassing systems providing a larger framework and meaning to individual lives. But, so what? Hitler was a vegetarian, lots of top Nazis treated their dogs well, and Leni Riefenshtal made impressive movies about Nuremberg rallies.
3
"When a felons not engaged in his employment,
or maturing his felonious little plans,
his capacity for innocent enjoyment,
is just as great as any honest man."
W.S. Gilbert, Pirates of Penzance
or maturing his felonious little plans,
his capacity for innocent enjoyment,
is just as great as any honest man."
W.S. Gilbert, Pirates of Penzance
6
Hitler loved his dog and Eva Braun, and poetry. And of course, even in the hellish barbarism of Islamist Jihad, nothing is only black or white either. This piece is a useless attempt to look at head-choppers, gay-burners, women stoning monsters, rapists and slave buyers in a sympathetic light. Fail! The Jihadists cannot and should not be made into sensible young men who cry during sermons, the very sermons that command them to spread their ancient beliefs and gruesome Sharia laws by any means necessary. The will get my sympathy if they truly accept dissenters and the secular and free world that we are used to.
7
Is this a serious piece, or a satirical page out of The Onion? I'm afraid pitching a sympathetic tale that seeks to humanize jihadis will fall on deaf ears round these parts.
Sure, there were pockets of art, philosophy, science and industry even during Medieval times. Yet, nobody in their right mind, given a choice of living in that age or in modern times, would choose an existence obscured in such darkness.
I don't really care if these guys have a (airquotes) "lighter side", or if poetry & song stirs some semblance of human emotion in their Neolithic brains. Stop blowing yourselves and others up. Stop persecuting your women. Stop fighting against science and human progress. Stop committing atrocities in the name of Islam. Until these things happen, I have nothing but contempt and derision for them.
Sure, there were pockets of art, philosophy, science and industry even during Medieval times. Yet, nobody in their right mind, given a choice of living in that age or in modern times, would choose an existence obscured in such darkness.
I don't really care if these guys have a (airquotes) "lighter side", or if poetry & song stirs some semblance of human emotion in their Neolithic brains. Stop blowing yourselves and others up. Stop persecuting your women. Stop fighting against science and human progress. Stop committing atrocities in the name of Islam. Until these things happen, I have nothing but contempt and derision for them.
6
The ‘thesis’ of this article is incomprehensible, The Slaughterer, a man who savagely cut off another human being’s head, is now referred to as He Who Weeps a Lot, as if because he now weeps we should empathize with him?
Jihadists ‘live in a rich cultural universe’, if by ‘rich’ one means the absolute and unchallenged domination of their power in areas where they have taken over, usurious taxes on everyone in their fiefdoms, the utter annihilation of entire segments of religious populations not their own, the destruction of irreplaceable antiquities, the trading of women seized as if trading cattle, and open proclamations of celebration and victory after the massacre of 130 people in Paris and the wounding of hundreds more.
Let us have more articles about the victims in San Bernardino and Paris, the long term effects on their lives, their suffering and the irreplaceable losses they have suffered. Let us stop lionizing a spreading sickness in the world, now condemned by world leaders in the Americas, Europe, Russia, Iran, Saudi Arabia and the many members of the United Nations. There is nothing soft and cuddly about ISIS, let us not pretend that there is.
Jihadists ‘live in a rich cultural universe’, if by ‘rich’ one means the absolute and unchallenged domination of their power in areas where they have taken over, usurious taxes on everyone in their fiefdoms, the utter annihilation of entire segments of religious populations not their own, the destruction of irreplaceable antiquities, the trading of women seized as if trading cattle, and open proclamations of celebration and victory after the massacre of 130 people in Paris and the wounding of hundreds more.
Let us have more articles about the victims in San Bernardino and Paris, the long term effects on their lives, their suffering and the irreplaceable losses they have suffered. Let us stop lionizing a spreading sickness in the world, now condemned by world leaders in the Americas, Europe, Russia, Iran, Saudi Arabia and the many members of the United Nations. There is nothing soft and cuddly about ISIS, let us not pretend that there is.
36
An enemy that is not understood, it is must harder to defeat. Military strength only goes so far. Ultimately, it is ultimately a competition of ideas. We better understand why ISIS is attractive to even some very privileged people.
3
This article isn't "lionizing" radical jihadists. It isn't pretending there is something "soft and cuddly" about ISIS. It is looking at what the appeal of ISIS may be, why people (especially men), including Europeans and Canadians and Americans, would join and stay with ISIS. Understanding one's enemy is usually helpful in combatting it.
3
"....now referred to as He Who Weeps a Lot, as if because he now weeps we should empathize with him? "
The article is not saying "we" should empathize with him - it's saying the people in this sub culture feed on such emotional display. "rich" is a way to quantitatively describe how much emotionally intense stuff these people get into and how music, poetry and clothing give them a social support for their violent actions.
The article is not saying "we" should empathize with him - it's saying the people in this sub culture feed on such emotional display. "rich" is a way to quantitatively describe how much emotionally intense stuff these people get into and how music, poetry and clothing give them a social support for their violent actions.
This article does not elevate or celebrate radical Islam - it explains that there are reasons why it attracts some to its brand of religious war - reasons that can be understood by outsiders. The idea that everyone was pulled in by a promise of virgins in some heavenly eden never quite made any sense; but providing a group identity, offering a sort of "family" and a shared vision of what they may see as a better world does explain the draw to young people. Refusing to try to understand doesn't make this (or these) groups disappear; it provides suggestions for ways to counter the appeal, as well as to identify those most vulnerable.
38
I agree Cheryl, if we explain to them kindly that cutting off heads isn't what it's cracked up to be, and perhaps offer them ritual slaughter instead, I'm sure they'll drop their knives and machine guns.
Any other thoughts on "ways to counter their appeal"? Maybe free movie nights with all-you-can-eat at the popcorn stand?
Any other thoughts on "ways to counter their appeal"? Maybe free movie nights with all-you-can-eat at the popcorn stand?
4
Further, Jim, their cohorts hit the "Recommend" button to their posts which is why they take up so much of the Comments section above "READ MORE".
It is an excellent article. Before you bomb your enemy you must understand the attraction of its ideology. And this attraction resides not just in violent verses from the Quran but in such small but significant details of everyday life as the author brings to life. Calling terrorists " criminals" and "murderers" may relieve your anger but it does nothing else. We are not fighting a zombie army led by Dr. Evil but a worldview. Many Nazis were excellent human beings in private life; among Communists there were true heroes. And yet adopting a wrong ideology made both of them into menace to the civilized world. There is an excellent book called "Intellectual Life in the Third Reich" by George Mosse which describes how intelligent, kind and thoughtful people became accomplices to mass murder. It will happen again if we treat the jihadi ideology as if it is incidental to the jihad and not the true cause of it.
35
I almost didn't read this, out of upset and disgust, but I'm very glad I did, and to the end, which is where the bulk comes together. The author brilliantly lures, and leaves one understanding the crux of the power of this evil militant jihad is just that, the allure. This is powerfully and demonstratively written. Woe to the US. -written from Buenos Aires
16
No woe to the U.S.. It's not our land which is turning to desert so fast it'll be completely uninhabitable within the century. The Daesh are living on the shifting sands and their culture will soon be eliminated by nature. Woe to them, for being such bloodthirsty jihadists that they fail to see their onrushing doom. And well deserved woe it is.
2
Psychopaths are very sentimental. Remember the episodes in "The Sopranos" when Tony wept over his dead race horse, killed by Ralph for the insurance money, and then went out, beat Ralph to death and dismembered his corpse? There was a lot of psychological truth to those episodes.
45
I wonder at the reasoning behind the NYT's as well as the Obama administration's efforts to educate US citizens about the glories of Islam. I think , as evidenced by the words coming from the GOP candidates , that the US public would better served by a concerted effort on the agencies of this government to educate those coming to this country about our national philosophy and their obligation to " melt " into the pot. Otherwise we are on our way to Balkanization.
24
How on Earth are you interpreting this article as a glorification of Islam? Did you read the whole thing, or just the headline and first paragraph?
2
The danger may be less from those coming INTO the country, than from those who are already here, and become radicalized. This isn't about glorifying Islam; it is about understanding the appeal of radical jihadists, and understanding who may be vulnerable to its siren call.
It's understandable why some people are offended by this article, but I think it's a very useful insight into these barbarians. Understanding their emotional strings can help in destroying these psychopaths -- spies can be trained to learn their culture, for example. Moreover, this article is a slap on the face of the people who believe that Islam has nothing to do with terrorism. If this article holds any truth, it has a lot to do with it.
18
Being in the jihadi clubhouse is not Islam.
You obviously haven't tried reading the quran.
"Why have tens of thousands of people from around the world chosen to live under the Islamic State's draconian rule and fight under its black flag? To understand this phenomenon, we must recognize that the world of radical Islam is not just death and destruction. It also encompasses fashion, music, poetry, dream interpretation. In short, jihadism offers its adherents a rich cultural universe in which they can immerse themselves."
If you remove the word "draconian" here, this snippet can be easily incorporated in any ISIS recruiting pamphlet.
I understand the purpose of this piece is to illuminate what we're up against, but the apologetic, almost marketing tone is appalling. In trying to explain what it is about ISIS that lures otherwise normal people from around the world, this piece is inadvertently doing ISIS's job for them. NYT can do better.
If you remove the word "draconian" here, this snippet can be easily incorporated in any ISIS recruiting pamphlet.
I understand the purpose of this piece is to illuminate what we're up against, but the apologetic, almost marketing tone is appalling. In trying to explain what it is about ISIS that lures otherwise normal people from around the world, this piece is inadvertently doing ISIS's job for them. NYT can do better.
37
The tone was truly bizarre. I half expected a link to their favorite Jihad recipes at the end .
4
I disagree. It's sharing a deeper understanding of what's motivating certain demographics of young Muslims from around the world to leave their homes, migrate to a foreign land, and commit unthinkable acts. Greater understanding leads to more effective solutions. And one word makes all the difference. You're awfully dismissive of the word "draconian". For instance, change the word "infringed" in the second amendment to "denied" and it takes on a whole new meaning.
2
Know your opponent.
-Lao Tsu
-Lao Tsu
2
I can understand, and appreciate, the sociology and psychology that the writer is studying and attempting to convey through this essay. But, one wonders, beyond the sense of community, when the seduced Jihadist learns of the other, darker aspects (torture, brutal misogyny and homophobia), what goes on in his head. I'm sorry, but when I see someone in pain and suffering, I am moved toward the sufferer not the agent of pain.
15
I agree with your last sentence. But sometimes, given allegiances that people have accepted, they may feel more for the torturer than for the tortured, may excuse great wrongs to the innocent, and it may take a lot to get through to them then.
I liked the last two sentences in Mr. Hegghammer's essay. It is bad news. but I also remembered reading about Hitler's love of art and music, especially Wagner. Governments must understand in order to protect their citizens from being seduced into killing. Ultra-nationalism does seduce. In 1916, the Indian writer Rabindranath Tagore had warned Japan against such nationalism and chauvinism.
9
I understand the purpose of this article, but I also understand the negative comments. The article makes it seem as if the extremists have an interest in genuine artistic culture. In fact I think we can safely assume their poetry is utter crap, because poetry is about the ambiguity and fallibility of the human experience (good poetry anyway) and extremists think in, well, extremes, bad v. good, and concreteness. A much better article would have been one of more translations of this crap poetry as that would have shown how artistically barren extremists are even though they themselves may enjoy their garbage "art." I would also like some examples of their "storytelling," which films they like etc. As for the tears, it is well known among mental health clinicians such as myself that sociopaths are often sentimentalists.
35
What if they write decent poetry, though, and tell decent stories? It's not like a bad person has never written a good line of verse.
What you describe as a good article sounds like a piece of anti-ISIS propaganda, where the point of the article would just be to criticize ISIS some more. I wouldn't read that. Propaganda for the good guys is still propaganda. It's hard to see how one more "ISIS bad" article would add to the discussion. But something that makes their attitudes and motives intelligible? That's worth reading for anyone who doesn't already find them intelligible.
What you describe as a good article sounds like a piece of anti-ISIS propaganda, where the point of the article would just be to criticize ISIS some more. I wouldn't read that. Propaganda for the good guys is still propaganda. It's hard to see how one more "ISIS bad" article would add to the discussion. But something that makes their attitudes and motives intelligible? That's worth reading for anyone who doesn't already find them intelligible.
17
Although it may be true that "bad" people sometimes make good art, religious fundamentalists almost never make good art. Because they are not merely bad, but concrete and extremist in their thinking. That doesn't go along with good art, because art in its essence is about ambiguity. I also did not find that the article made their attitudes and motives intelligible. Surely everyone already knows that the jihadists must do something in their spare time.
When can we expect a "softer side" piece on Dylann Roof? I don't think we need to plumb the depths of such psyche's for the "why they do it," but we should focus upon what they do and what they do is barbaric --in any time and at any place.
24
I think the softer side to that Roof kid was basically his head. Not too bright is what I'm getting at.
1
"When can we expect a 'softer side' piece on Dylann Roof?"
Or on Donald Trump for that matter? I'm not holding my breath, such is the hypocrisy and tunnel-vision of this once-great newspaper.
I hope this article will galvanize even broader liberal opinion to realize the NYT has jumped. the. shark. It's time for major change in the editorial and opinion department here and it's long overdue.
Or on Donald Trump for that matter? I'm not holding my breath, such is the hypocrisy and tunnel-vision of this once-great newspaper.
I hope this article will galvanize even broader liberal opinion to realize the NYT has jumped. the. shark. It's time for major change in the editorial and opinion department here and it's long overdue.
2
The comments are spot on about what became a "Pick" by the Times staff. I wrote a note in protest of this nonsensical article before (No cursing, nothing inflammatory), but it did not get posted. This is a piece of "journalism" that The Onion would envy. It is so backwards in its thesis, that it boggles the mind. Not thought provoking at all, but rather dumbfounding, and an insult to anyone with a modicum of intelligence.
31
There is a softer side of ISIS. It's called Al Qaeda.
43
This provocative and insightful article points out the importance of knowing exactly who our enemy is in order to be able to defeat it. We must stem the flow of young men and women who have been captivated by the romantic vision of jihad from joining the ranks of ISIS by being able to counter them culturally. It is my understanding that there are thousands, of ISIS sympathetic videos, and social media accounts which is where much of the radicalization is taking place. We must win the high tech, social media, twitter, Instagram battle against ISIS even as we use guns, bombs and drones. Seduction is insidious. Heightened emotions are appealing. Who doesn't want affection and play?
This is a new battlefield we're seeing.
This is a new battlefield we're seeing.
15
I read the NYT every day, but I'm not one to leave comments. I'm writing my first-ever comment to say I think it's journalistically irresponsible to write and publish an article that humanizes jihadists. I understand this information is all probably true, but this is a dangerous perspective to introduce to the wrong eyes. Our country and world didn't need this point to be made. I'm disappointed in this moment of poor judgment by the author and the NYT.
49
To humanize is to give something a human character. That is what ISIS is, people. Clearly bombs and midnight raids have not cut off the pipeline to these extremist ideologies in the past 14 years. We need to look holistically at these movements, and the people within them, to destroy them.
1
Very interesting content. If you are a government how do you subvert this image? Fighting ISIS keeps them at bay in the short term, fighting the appeal at ISIS eliminates them in the long term. We cannot interfere with their recruiting if we don't understand the proposition they are making to recruits.
14
Shortly after 9/11 my friend contacted the FBI. He had been in a cult and later became heavily involved in cult awareness, deprogramming cult members, etc. He wanted to share his expertise in how terrorist networks recruit followers. The FBI never returned his calls.
5
Many people commenting on this article are unable to comprehend intermediate-level English prose. This is NOT a "fluff piece" for ISIS. It is NOT approving of ISIS' crimes. It is NOT (most absurdly) "anti-American".
It IS an exploration of the broad appeal of radical jihadism. It IS a piece worth printing. It SHOULD be read and reflected on by anyone seeking to understand and, ultimately, defeat these wicked monsters.
It IS an exploration of the broad appeal of radical jihadism. It IS a piece worth printing. It SHOULD be read and reflected on by anyone seeking to understand and, ultimately, defeat these wicked monsters.
41
If you have to shout, you are probably wrong.
2
ok, so the jihadis have a rich culture with regard to fashion, music and poetry, and some like to cook and swim. how does that help us to defeat them?
Speaking of "communal sobbing," I feel a collective weep from the dedicated readership this once fine publication still somehow maintains.
I like many of the stories on this website and the discussions that take place in the comments sections, but I will not subject myself to this sort of treatment by a newspaper I have no obligation to read.
Subscription cancelled, with prejudice.
I like many of the stories on this website and the discussions that take place in the comments sections, but I will not subject myself to this sort of treatment by a newspaper I have no obligation to read.
Subscription cancelled, with prejudice.
28
I think you, and some of the other commentators here are completely misunderstanding the intent of this piece. ISIS has a very sophisticated and far-reaching recruitment campaign--seducing even American non-Muslims into embracing their ideology.
If you want to defeat your enemy, you've got to understand them. That includes understanding their cultural, rituals, worldview, etc. This piece is merely applying some anthropology and sociology to the subject at hand. .
If you want to defeat your enemy, you've got to understand them. That includes understanding their cultural, rituals, worldview, etc. This piece is merely applying some anthropology and sociology to the subject at hand. .
1
It's strange to me that so many posters see this article as some kind of defense of ISIS and are upset with the NYT for reporting this information. It's the job of the NYT to give us information we don't have and here they are simply doing so. This piece helps us to more clearly understand the appeal of ISIS, something which is surely important for us to grasp if we hope to counteract it. The Nazis had a great deal of cultural activities, emotional art forms, and apparatus which served as recruitment tools, and so too, apparently, does ISIS. These are facts it is vital and important for us to know. I will, slightly, fault the NYT for the sardonic title, which perhaps set off people who didn't appreciate its dark irony. A better title would have been something more along the lines of "Understanding the emotional appeal of jihadi culture" , i.e. something less sarcastic and more academic. That would have forestalled much of this unwarranted anger.
32
It is the tone of this article that is offensive. It seems to want us to feel the pain of the Jihadi terrorist. To intellectually know how they spend their time and why is disgusting but perhaps necessary, how they psychopathically enjoy their suffering and that of others.
But really, I refuse to feel their pain as they brutalize their victims.
But really, I refuse to feel their pain as they brutalize their victims.
35
So after the go out and kill 14 people and wound 21 others they go home and tell a story, watch a film and do some cooking and you want us to believe these are just normal folks.
27
Who is asking you to believe they're "just normal folks"? You're attacking a false narrative that you invented. Sheesh. People really read what they want to read and hear what they want to hear.
3
tompe:"So after the go out and kill 14 people and wound 21 others they go home and tell a story, watch a film and do some cooking and you want us to believe these are just normal folks."
Tell that to the million of "normal" Germans and Japanese during WWII who were willing accomplices to subjugation, conquest, genocide, slavery and mass murder.
Tell that to the million of "normal" Germans and Japanese during WWII who were willing accomplices to subjugation, conquest, genocide, slavery and mass murder.
1
To all those who are quick to jump to conclusions: this is a very important piece, because it helps provide a fuller picture of the enemy. The wrong strategy is to convince oneself that Daesh is a bunch of psychopaths. There is actually a whole cultural layout that brings them and keeps them together. Ask yourselves why young people of Christian background, from Europe and North America, convert to Islam and join Daesh, while they are aware of the absolute violence that awaits them. A critical stance would prove more constructive than acting offended and truly ignorant...
100
Yale students who signed Ami Horowitz's petition to abolish the the First Amendment notwithstanding.
2
I don't think they're psychopaths. I think they are young men, not unlike countless young men before them, looking for some adventure and glory in life. I do not care one iota about their poetry and hobbies; everyone has these things.
2
I am utterly stunned at the NYT picks on this piece. To whoever is picking -- please, please, please re-read the article. Whatever the author's intent, this is a Jihadi recruiting tool, which will result in more mothers losing their children, and more children losing their parents. Words have consequences -- this article crosses the line.
36
You should reread the article yourself.
I find it more than a little ironic that the vitriol expressed here in the comments section toward an article portraying the people who join ISIS as fundamentally human and not all that unlike ourselves – i.e. complex people with seemingly incongruent motivations – is precisely the same lazy human nature that organizations like ISIS, Al Qaeda, Nazis, etc. have preyed on throughout history to engage "intelligent" societies in genocide, terrorism, etc.
It's almost laughably naive that nearly everyone thinks they are immune to these tactics, and yet study after study show we are all susceptible.
The title of the article could be less deliberately provocative. I agree with commenters who take issue with the "click-bait" feel of the title, which contrasts with the author's very thoughtful (and frankly, courageous) stance.
But just for the record, pieces like this do not attract more Jihadi's to the cause. It's the reverse: intolerance, black-and-white thinking, exclusion, and a complete unwillingness to consider someone else's point of view.
Grow up, America. Or go back to World History class.
It's almost laughably naive that nearly everyone thinks they are immune to these tactics, and yet study after study show we are all susceptible.
The title of the article could be less deliberately provocative. I agree with commenters who take issue with the "click-bait" feel of the title, which contrasts with the author's very thoughtful (and frankly, courageous) stance.
But just for the record, pieces like this do not attract more Jihadi's to the cause. It's the reverse: intolerance, black-and-white thinking, exclusion, and a complete unwillingness to consider someone else's point of view.
Grow up, America. Or go back to World History class.
28
>unwillingness to consider someone else's point of view.
Independent judgment is a moral virtue. Sacrificing mind to religion or society is a moral vice.
Independent judgment is a moral virtue. Sacrificing mind to religion or society is a moral vice.
1
While they may be complex and human (barely), given the horrific, heinous acts that Jihadists commit on their own people and others (Boston, Paris, San Bernadino, to mention but a few) - without provocation or rational motivation - there's scant reason to see them as intellectual people. While the Muslim community and their heritage may have much to offer to the world, these Jihadists are not of the same genus.
1
Lovely!! Who knew that Jihadis were so much fun, sensitive and well rounded?! "Fashion, music, poetry, dream interpretation...a rich cultural universe". Regular intellectuals and renaissance people, they!
Funny, the only thing that comes to my mind are deep misogyny, hatred, xenophobia, beheadings, two destroyed buildings in downtown NY, 14 dead in San Bernadino, the destroying of priceless historical artifacts, and a plethora of other savage, brutal, inhumane acts.
I don't care about anything else they may do; they're beasts. Shame on the NY Times for running this. It's an insensitive smack in the face to their many, many victims - those executed and their friends and families left behind.
Funny, the only thing that comes to my mind are deep misogyny, hatred, xenophobia, beheadings, two destroyed buildings in downtown NY, 14 dead in San Bernadino, the destroying of priceless historical artifacts, and a plethora of other savage, brutal, inhumane acts.
I don't care about anything else they may do; they're beasts. Shame on the NY Times for running this. It's an insensitive smack in the face to their many, many victims - those executed and their friends and families left behind.
26
Intellectuals (real ones) are people who can use reason, think critically, make judgments based on appreciation of different points of view. Much of culture - any culture - is not about that but about appeal to the emotions. This is what the article emphasizes, this is why it is important.
1
To those who read the title and think this is a sympathetic piece: it's not. This article illuminates a subtler (and therefore more dangerous) aspect of jihad. ISIS is using art and culture in the most subversive way, just as the Nazis and the KKK and Stalin's regime did. Jihadi poems and anashid are calculated to shape their followers' raw emotion and hatred into violent action in the name of the state/religion. Groups like the Hitler Youth and movies like "Birth of a Nation" did the same in their respective cultures. If we hope to stop violent jihad, we need to be informed and aware of its tactics. We must read more than just the titles.
20
Pat, I appreciate your comments and agree with your position. Please check out the site: FaithFreedom dot org.
We need to captivate the hearts and minds of our young with the ideals that our founding fathers spoke so eloquently and wrote so profoundly.
Also a real Poet (Sufi) wrote in the 1200s and is worth reading: J. Rumi
We need to captivate the hearts and minds of our young with the ideals that our founding fathers spoke so eloquently and wrote so profoundly.
Also a real Poet (Sufi) wrote in the 1200s and is worth reading: J. Rumi
1
Leave it to The Times to come up with something positive to say about radical Islam and the people who cut your head off if you refuse to convert.
25
This time the comment section is really boring. Nearly all readers seem to follow that outrage pattern that forbids a 'thick decription' of the Lebenswelt of the bad guy. Any such thing is supposed to be an apology or a fluff piece. You get the same angry shouts from the crowd if you'd describe how thoughtful and tender that serial killer cared for his Grandma or the animal shelter. But he did and it's significant.
The sober style, delicate symbolism, and calm atrocities of Deash jihadism (as opposed e.g. to skinheads' drunken rage) show them to be a real cult. Unfortunately you cannot kill large cults just by a rain of fire. (If it is clearly coming NOT from God, I mean.) Demonic adversity is expected. You kill a cult by destryong its financial setup, by internal splintering (set up an Anti-Kaliph), and by visibly disproving its promises and prophesies. (But for boots in their necks, you'd need boots on the ground.)
I don't agree with that 'softness' from another angle. That sobbing, poems, song, dreams etc. are 'soft' and therefore appear to be at odds with a warrior identity is just "western" cliché where "men don't cry". I guess the Marines do not much singing, reciting and dream-talking. But most indigenous warrior now or in history would not regard those things as un-manly.
The sober style, delicate symbolism, and calm atrocities of Deash jihadism (as opposed e.g. to skinheads' drunken rage) show them to be a real cult. Unfortunately you cannot kill large cults just by a rain of fire. (If it is clearly coming NOT from God, I mean.) Demonic adversity is expected. You kill a cult by destryong its financial setup, by internal splintering (set up an Anti-Kaliph), and by visibly disproving its promises and prophesies. (But for boots in their necks, you'd need boots on the ground.)
I don't agree with that 'softness' from another angle. That sobbing, poems, song, dreams etc. are 'soft' and therefore appear to be at odds with a warrior identity is just "western" cliché where "men don't cry". I guess the Marines do not much singing, reciting and dream-talking. But most indigenous warrior now or in history would not regard those things as un-manly.
13
>skinheads' drunken rage
And, yet, it has an authentic ,existential, poetic force that speaks to our "rational" capitalist society.
And, yet, it has an authentic ,existential, poetic force that speaks to our "rational" capitalist society.
1
Stepehen, that definitely reads like a fine blurb to "Fight Club". And I do agree. But even total annihilation can be that poetic like the devouring of the world in "These final hours", the most poetic doomsday movie I know. Regarding the 'softness' of poetry I also had to think of that Japanese warrior custom to write a poem and recite it just before gutting oneself. (calmly and methodically).
The disdain I have for this piece is shared by so many literate commenters that further comment is superfluous except to say, inadvertently no doubt this article shows the folly of the abandonment by the west of a constructive nationalism and value-system in exchange for an empty relativism and support of the most extravagant kinds of individual "rights".
You can see the process at work in the opinion columns of the liberal/left media every day.
Many years ago, an imperfect Vice President spoke of the "nattering nabobs of negativism". People laughed at him but he was right and 45 years later, when American patriotism as a public value has practically disappeared, we see some of the results
You can see the process at work in the opinion columns of the liberal/left media every day.
Many years ago, an imperfect Vice President spoke of the "nattering nabobs of negativism". People laughed at him but he was right and 45 years later, when American patriotism as a public value has practically disappeared, we see some of the results
9
This piece is NOT supporting any flavor of relativism. It's a psychological profile of a cult-mentality that is seducing disenfranchised youth around the world. Do you not think it is important to understand why? Dropping bombs is only going to put a temporary band-aid on the cancer. How it spreads must be understood in order to dismantle it from the inside out.
2
You missed my point, which is that relativistic attitudes in the west have led to uncertainty about our core values, an unwillingness to stand up for them, as seen in broad swaths of the Academy and the media in particular. There is an old expression, "two cheers for democracy...".
By ceaselessly hammering at domestic government and e.g. the police and our armed forces, which is what the Academy and much of the media do every day, they weaken public confidence in these institutions and indeed the institutions themselves. No one speaks up for this country any more (by which I include all Western countries) and that has done huge damage IMO to our ability to defend ourselves from the ISIS's of the world.
As for the article, any armed cult has motives and a mythology self-created, this isn't news and it isn't important. What is important is to destroy the centres which finance, nourish and support such aggression. Bombing their installations in land they control and retaking that territory is a good start. The task of enticing youth away from such blandishments is a complex one that is foremost familial, not societal, but in any case much secondary to the task of stopping such violent aggression.
By ceaselessly hammering at domestic government and e.g. the police and our armed forces, which is what the Academy and much of the media do every day, they weaken public confidence in these institutions and indeed the institutions themselves. No one speaks up for this country any more (by which I include all Western countries) and that has done huge damage IMO to our ability to defend ourselves from the ISIS's of the world.
As for the article, any armed cult has motives and a mythology self-created, this isn't news and it isn't important. What is important is to destroy the centres which finance, nourish and support such aggression. Bombing their installations in land they control and retaking that territory is a good start. The task of enticing youth away from such blandishments is a complex one that is foremost familial, not societal, but in any case much secondary to the task of stopping such violent aggression.
Like most sensible readers I often find myself at odds with the occasional NY Times story. I think I (and others) would argue that disagreement is a natural consequence of living in a world where people are different in their experiences, beliefs or perspectives.
It's to be expected.
However, few are the times that I've ever felt genuinely nauseated to the core due to 'subjective' reportage by the New York Times. Today is one of those days for many of the same reasons voiced in this forum today. In fact, I see this as a new low.
Despicable.
It's to be expected.
However, few are the times that I've ever felt genuinely nauseated to the core due to 'subjective' reportage by the New York Times. Today is one of those days for many of the same reasons voiced in this forum today. In fact, I see this as a new low.
Despicable.
41
This article would have landed with less of a thud if the writer had described the roll that this so-called "softer side" plays in ISIS's sophisticated brainwashing regimen. It sounds like he's been taken in by the propaganda. Just weird.
24
The rage that this report draws is astonishing. You don't want to know what attracts some people to this murderous life, and even more, what holds them there? We're not going to be able to kill them out of existence. This is the first piece I've seen that challenges us to search and face and do the long hard work of grasping and countering what we are really up against, the corrosion of the human spirit. Surely, there must be ways to tempt the derailed emotions of the young toward sanity and decency through equally powerful ideas that can deliver some actual and beneficent thrilling purposes. Fight and defend yes. Attack and recover territory. But to extinguish the corrupt attraction takes the character and persistence and perception we easily give ourselves credit for. Or are we so frightened that we cannot bother to look beneath the surface for fundamental insights?
85
>We're not going to be able to kill them out of existence.
WW2 destroyed the ideas of Nazism and Japanese imperialism. We must wage WW2-type war against Moslem Jiahdists.
WW2 destroyed the ideas of Nazism and Japanese imperialism. We must wage WW2-type war against Moslem Jiahdists.
Maybe the Times could include trigger warnings for people who want to remain ignorant. Warning: this article might teach you something about the people America is spending billions of dollars trying to eliminate. Though the purpose of this article is to inform and not to persuade, you might find its non-jingoistic tone upsetting because it doesn't just repeat your own opinions back to you. Maybe all newspapers could carry similar warnings, so that people of sensitive dispositions don't stray too far from blogs and accidentally read a piece of expert analysis.
18
Brilliantly stated.
Yeah. That`ll be the day.
The essay proves that less can be more.
The essay proves that less can be more.
ISIS and poetry appear oxymoronic. But there is a long-standing tradition of Arabic-language jihadi poetry. Osama bin Laden wrote various poems, many of which were read out as part of a recruitment drive for militants to travel to Afghanistan. The Taliban has its own collection of poems too.
Inspired by the "Song of Roland", an epic poem based on the Battle of Roncevaux in 778, during the reign of Charlemagne, jihad promises adventure and asserts that the codes of medieval heroism and chivalry are still relevant.
Inspired by the "Song of Roland", an epic poem based on the Battle of Roncevaux in 778, during the reign of Charlemagne, jihad promises adventure and asserts that the codes of medieval heroism and chivalry are still relevant.
14
Agree. Wait till they get there and see the hard side of Jihad.
The "key source" of feeling attracted to jihadi life is apart from the "thrill of combat" mainly the "joy of camaraderie".
To live alone, or apart from society, "one must be either a beast or a god'' says Aristotle. In many cultures, to cultivate a family and community life is nearly a moral obligation and not a choice. Individuals can't escape it without being socially marginalised.
Today many of us live alone - voluntarily, or involuntarily. Children after school, or adults after work, go home, only to find themselves alone. No doubt they all yearn for a sense of belonging - to be among people they feel comfortable with and can trust, to share joy and sorrow and to exchange views and ideas.
Many find their solace online and - sometimes - fall prey to Islamist recruiters.
To live alone, or apart from society, "one must be either a beast or a god'' says Aristotle. In many cultures, to cultivate a family and community life is nearly a moral obligation and not a choice. Individuals can't escape it without being socially marginalised.
Today many of us live alone - voluntarily, or involuntarily. Children after school, or adults after work, go home, only to find themselves alone. No doubt they all yearn for a sense of belonging - to be among people they feel comfortable with and can trust, to share joy and sorrow and to exchange views and ideas.
Many find their solace online and - sometimes - fall prey to Islamist recruiters.
18
Living alone has its limits, of course. And so does living together. Life requires rational limits.
1
Building community is a moral obligation that many in politics fail to comprehend. A collection of cowboys is not a community. As for ISIL culture beyond their culture of death, I don't think it merits publication by this news organization.
2
People are the same all over -- when frightened they don't want to hear that the enemy is annoyingly human. To beat the enemy (ISIS) you should understand him, his motives, his way of thinking and yes -- his strength. And yes, the nazis had a very elaborate symbolism -- I am sure that studying it didn't stop the allies from destroying them, on the contrary.
34
No, it didn't, thank God. But if people who were drawn in by the nature hikes, the Sunday-schools mixing more and more with nationalism and the mythos of racist superiority, the propaganda that reached and pulled in a whole nation to itself, had seen through it, then the war and genocide might have been halted before they came. Even after the war, efforts remained necessary to fight the noxious and seductive lies that had taken in many of those people. And a better way, a culture that offered a reality and truth beyond the lies, again took hold. The burgeoning of the Nazi movement had everything to do with its appeals and its attractiveness to those who were deceived. Pretending it didn't would have been no help.
5
what beat the Nazis was a no holds barred effort by the military with the full backing of the civilian population. Compare that to what we have now.
1
I don't often write in response to articles even when I think they are interesting or inane. However, I must express my anger at your editorial staff printing this article. I don't want my subscription to the NYT to sponsor this sort of propagandist dribble whether intended that way or not.
At the very least there should have been an exploration of the IS defectors' stories to see why the "egalitarian camaraderie, poetry, acapela singing, & gourmet meals" where not enough to keep the defectors there.
I suspect that the brutality, rigidity, & hypocrisy of the regime was too much for independent thinkers, who then left before their minds & souls were totally corrupted.
I suspect some of the IS who cry during prayer, do so with regret for the corruption of their faith & their own abhorrent behavior. Attempting to leave means death if caught, so some may cry with despondency at the results of their misguided choice to join at all. I imagine for some recruits it would be nauseating to sing & eat gourmet meals after watching or participating in beheadings, rape, & other repellant cruelty.
Those who have left IS would make a far better topic NYT!
1) what (in detail) attracted them in the first place?
2) what (in detail) caused them to leave?
3) what about them "immunized" them from staying & partaking further in that "meal" of inhumanity?
4) what gave them the courage to leave?
Common sense: Governments may need the info in this article, the public does not!
At the very least there should have been an exploration of the IS defectors' stories to see why the "egalitarian camaraderie, poetry, acapela singing, & gourmet meals" where not enough to keep the defectors there.
I suspect that the brutality, rigidity, & hypocrisy of the regime was too much for independent thinkers, who then left before their minds & souls were totally corrupted.
I suspect some of the IS who cry during prayer, do so with regret for the corruption of their faith & their own abhorrent behavior. Attempting to leave means death if caught, so some may cry with despondency at the results of their misguided choice to join at all. I imagine for some recruits it would be nauseating to sing & eat gourmet meals after watching or participating in beheadings, rape, & other repellant cruelty.
Those who have left IS would make a far better topic NYT!
1) what (in detail) attracted them in the first place?
2) what (in detail) caused them to leave?
3) what about them "immunized" them from staying & partaking further in that "meal" of inhumanity?
4) what gave them the courage to leave?
Common sense: Governments may need the info in this article, the public does not!
73
I think you mean "drivel" and not "dribble", correct? If you do mean propagandist drivel, in what way does learning about the enemy amount to publicizing silly nonsense? Just because there may be better topics doesn't mean this is not a worthy topic of discussion.
3
Maria, we need to learn far more about why people join ISIS in the first place than we do about those who leave. Those who leave aren't the problem. The ones who join and find fulfillment in ISIS are the problem. We need to understand why.
2
What makes you think governments alone can fight this kind of extremism, that at some point you yourself might not know someone on the cusp of this sort of radicalization? Fighting this extremism is your job too, and the contents of this piece are part of what you need to know to do your job.
The author is a serious man with credentials in the fight against terror.
Read-
http://hegghammer.com/
Compare his intellect and research and knowledge to any of the Republican candidates who bluster and crow. It will provide a good laugh.
Read-
http://hegghammer.com/
Compare his intellect and research and knowledge to any of the Republican candidates who bluster and crow. It will provide a good laugh.
24
Then maybe the author needs to take a break from this subject matter. From the content and tone of this article, it sounds like he's losing his perspective.
13
Read his bio and sample his other works.
Brilliant guy.
If you take this writing as complimentary then you're the one who might need a break.
Brilliant guy.
If you take this writing as complimentary then you're the one who might need a break.
3
I think many commentators here have misinterpreted the "tone" and the "content" of the article. If people find it incomprehensible that a movement as big as ISIS encompasses art, music, symbolism and other elements common to any large cultural movement (whether fascism, terrorism, communism, the Crusades, etc.), then perhaps they should read a little more history. The author isn't trying to lure anyone in with this window into ISIS, he's trying to alert us!
1
I nearly cannot believe what I am reading here, nor can I fathom some of the comments about understanding this culture. Frankly, the notion of "sensitive" murderers is nearly too much to bear, even for a progressive liberal, of which I am one.
While I understand that young people sometimes find the "wrong" path within which to place their alienation, and also get the idea of "know thine enemy," this embrace of an ostensible 'sensitive self' among killers makes me feel sick, as to be sure did Hitler's nationalistic appeal to Germany.
It is simple such a perversion of the humanitarian place of the arts in our lives --- you know, the idea that art, and music and philosophy make us more human.
This story, along with the photo of the doe-eyed "Slaughterer" is both repugnant and terrifying and has no place in an international newspaper, other than to further glamorize the slaughter of innocents by the otherwise artistically engaged.
While I understand that young people sometimes find the "wrong" path within which to place their alienation, and also get the idea of "know thine enemy," this embrace of an ostensible 'sensitive self' among killers makes me feel sick, as to be sure did Hitler's nationalistic appeal to Germany.
It is simple such a perversion of the humanitarian place of the arts in our lives --- you know, the idea that art, and music and philosophy make us more human.
This story, along with the photo of the doe-eyed "Slaughterer" is both repugnant and terrifying and has no place in an international newspaper, other than to further glamorize the slaughter of innocents by the otherwise artistically engaged.
73
You've got to be kidding. my daughter was awarded a a Fulbright fellowship...the first proposal was how poetry was used for conflict resolution in Yemen, the second proposal was how women use poetry for political expression in the Sultanate of Oman. Poetry is a major means of communication in the middle east, even the secular middle east. On television they have poetry competitions the way we have telivised singing and dance competitions. You cannot defeat an enemy without understanding their ideology and what they value. This article is a very analytic assessment of what makes these militant jihadis tick. He's not in anyway endorsing their values or trying to romanticize them.
11
By what law of the universe does art, music, and philosophy make us more human? The Nazis had all of these.
12
I understand the purpose of the article, but I disagree. I think that jihad culture is all about violence. People don't join for a sense of community and a emotionally rewarding life; they know what Isis is, it's no secret.
And I don't see any humanity in the militants because they make attempts at poetry and music, just as I don't see any humanity in my dog because he's fascinated by our television. Their culture is an imitation of culture, a product of whatever shred of humanity is rotting under their mounting bodies of men, women, and children.
Let's not start projecting our humanity on animals as if we were children at a zoo.
And I don't see any humanity in the militants because they make attempts at poetry and music, just as I don't see any humanity in my dog because he's fascinated by our television. Their culture is an imitation of culture, a product of whatever shred of humanity is rotting under their mounting bodies of men, women, and children.
Let's not start projecting our humanity on animals as if we were children at a zoo.
46
A common sentiment, and an understandable reaction.
However, consider this irony: you call them animals, yet hold them morally responsible. Animals are not cruel or evil, and can be put down if they are dangerous, but not condemned morally. At least not by grown-ups (children at a zoo might not understand the distinction). If they were animals, this would be a wholly different situation.
Animals can be scary and dangerous, but they aren't cruel. HUMANS should know better and are therefore called evil or cruel. And so are held accountable differently than animals.
And humans, even evil ones, are inclined to appreciate art, humor, and other fine things in life. It is what it is. We can't deny it because it causes cognitive dissonance.
Accepting their humanity is actually insisting on their responsibility.
However, consider this irony: you call them animals, yet hold them morally responsible. Animals are not cruel or evil, and can be put down if they are dangerous, but not condemned morally. At least not by grown-ups (children at a zoo might not understand the distinction). If they were animals, this would be a wholly different situation.
Animals can be scary and dangerous, but they aren't cruel. HUMANS should know better and are therefore called evil or cruel. And so are held accountable differently than animals.
And humans, even evil ones, are inclined to appreciate art, humor, and other fine things in life. It is what it is. We can't deny it because it causes cognitive dissonance.
Accepting their humanity is actually insisting on their responsibility.
21
Wait....
Is this real.....
I re-read it twice and I'm still not sure what I read.
Is this real.....
I re-read it twice and I'm still not sure what I read.
36
All cults find ways to indoctrinate members into a varied culture, which keeps them busy and occupied ALL the time. A cult, to survive needs to be all things to all people.
But it is still a cult. And a violent one - for example, if you try to leave. Whether or not people are free to leave is key here. Poetry, music, cooking etc. are not the same as exercising the freedom to exit.
Those who have escaped did so secretly, fearing for their lives.
But it is still a cult. And a violent one - for example, if you try to leave. Whether or not people are free to leave is key here. Poetry, music, cooking etc. are not the same as exercising the freedom to exit.
Those who have escaped did so secretly, fearing for their lives.
22
The difference between a cult and a culture is irrelevant here. I'm sure that the author would agree with you that ISIS is a cult.
I thought they just woke up, and as Eddie Izzard would put it, their to-do list just went "Death death death death death lunch death death death death death death tea death death death death death."
I cry when I put on my tefillin in the morning, knowing that throughout history people have been slaughtered for what this represents. That is my primary motivation to put them on, not to reaffirm a covenant with G-d, but to reaffirm the strength of resilience and to respect those who have stood up against those who force their ways on others. I cry on the morning of June 6th, remembering how many brave soldiers gave their lives fighting a war that many had nothing personal at stake in, but still they drove forward. I cry when I reflect on the future of this world, when we seem to be spiraling deep into sectarian hate that knows no bounds, creed, nationality, ethnicity, and race all being fair play for bigotry. If we're lucking, we'll destroy the planet before we destroy ourselves. I cry when I read the profiles of the NYTimes neediest cases, and then I give a small amount in the hopes that if we are all doing the same, we can help our brothers and sisters to a better life.
Maybe they should call me He Who Weeps A Lot. Its just I don't have that second face, the one that is murder and rage and hate.
I cry when I put on my tefillin in the morning, knowing that throughout history people have been slaughtered for what this represents. That is my primary motivation to put them on, not to reaffirm a covenant with G-d, but to reaffirm the strength of resilience and to respect those who have stood up against those who force their ways on others. I cry on the morning of June 6th, remembering how many brave soldiers gave their lives fighting a war that many had nothing personal at stake in, but still they drove forward. I cry when I reflect on the future of this world, when we seem to be spiraling deep into sectarian hate that knows no bounds, creed, nationality, ethnicity, and race all being fair play for bigotry. If we're lucking, we'll destroy the planet before we destroy ourselves. I cry when I read the profiles of the NYTimes neediest cases, and then I give a small amount in the hopes that if we are all doing the same, we can help our brothers and sisters to a better life.
Maybe they should call me He Who Weeps A Lot. Its just I don't have that second face, the one that is murder and rage and hate.
26
L'chaim, Ami. To life. I am for once not being sarcastic. It's knowing that people like you are out there that makes it worth getting through another day.
Just cancelled my subscription.
69
Go to Breitbart for their version of truth.
Good luck.
Good luck.
14
Just renewed mine. Set the counters back to zero!
7
So what you're saying is that this is your 'version of the truth'? I look for truth, period, not a version of it. That's why I read more than the NYTimes. Perhaps you should try that sometime and just look for the truth.
4
It interests me that all of the NYT Picks are positive reactions to the article, while a vast majority of reader reactions are negative. Shouldn't the NYT make an effort to foster discussion (as this article attempts to do) rather than present an untrue image of homogeneity?
54
Not surprising at all.
11
no, no. the Times doesn't do that sort of thing.
1
It's because the Times recognizes complexity, and its "picks" usually are those that similarly recognize complexity. It's possible to examine the reasons behind something (as this article does) without excusing it (as this article does not). We must examine the behavior and motives of western young people who go to join these people--monsters!--with their death cult.
2
Sorry, have to post one more.
To all the know nothings:
Are you people still in this universe anymore??
Yes, reading about the habits and so called "softer" (taking a break from murder and rape) side of these lowlifes is DISGUSTING.
But it's information about the enemy and it's important to know and use against them as they try to recruit.
You know who's VERY GRATEFUL for information like this?
Every decent, patriotic American with a brain working 24/7 in our counter-terrorism agencies who is wanting to understand the enemy they are fighting.
This information is as critical as knowing where to bomb them.
Stop with the lunatic comments and blaming the Times for this piece. It's just information!
Again, it's disgusting.
Just a little more disgusting than your anti-knowledge knee jerking all the time!!
Stop!!
To all the know nothings:
Are you people still in this universe anymore??
Yes, reading about the habits and so called "softer" (taking a break from murder and rape) side of these lowlifes is DISGUSTING.
But it's information about the enemy and it's important to know and use against them as they try to recruit.
You know who's VERY GRATEFUL for information like this?
Every decent, patriotic American with a brain working 24/7 in our counter-terrorism agencies who is wanting to understand the enemy they are fighting.
This information is as critical as knowing where to bomb them.
Stop with the lunatic comments and blaming the Times for this piece. It's just information!
Again, it's disgusting.
Just a little more disgusting than your anti-knowledge knee jerking all the time!!
Stop!!
47
Oh please! Get a grip.
2
It's not about the information -- It's about the presentation. This propaganda, not analysis.
2
You are missing the forest for the trees. This article points out something very important for our culture and military to realize -- we are dealing with a movement whose roots are much deeper than political terrorism. It helps intelligence communities figure out what we need to do to win. That is the meaning of this article -- it is not aggrandizing anything. (Steven)
1
I opened hoping it was joke but unfortunately the NYT really decided to publish this...
22
This is an important piece because knowledge is better than ignorance. Knowledge makes you strong whereas ignorance makes you weak. I think that's why we read the New York Times and other publications every day, because we want to know and understand our world.
"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle."
Sun Tzu
"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle."
Sun Tzu
40
Well said, Sharon, an intelligent response to the bulk thoughtlessness expressed in most of the other responses to this article
11
Wow...this is not what Sun Tzu meant. You have to know your enemy not white wash him?
17
"white wash"? Humans are complex organisms with many sides to our characters. ISIS frames murder as a gift to their concept of a god and the writings stemming from that god. The Aztecs made human sacrifices to the sun, Pol Pot and Hitler and Stalin inspired the killings of millions of people, and all to their idea of a greater good. To the rational mind this doesn't make sense, but in the context of their belief systems it made/makes sense to them.
5
What's next in the New York Times articles of apologia?? Hitler's artistic talent? Charles Manson's musical talent? Maybe a viewpoint on how Franco was such a popular leader? There is no reason to write an article that shows the positive side of murderers. This is garbage.
62
>Hitler's artistic talent?
You beat me to it! I wanted to suggest a empathetic play about Adolph's tragic years as a gay watercolorist. Who knows but that he may not have moved on to other things if only he had been shown more favor by snobbish art galleries?
You beat me to it! I wanted to suggest a empathetic play about Adolph's tragic years as a gay watercolorist. Who knows but that he may not have moved on to other things if only he had been shown more favor by snobbish art galleries?
1
Thank you so much NYT for this constructive view, so we may all have a more well rounded view of what so many people simply label "terrorism". I am sure your nuanced insight will allow us to seperate the wheat from the chaff, and on the one hand eliminate the few "violent elements" -- or perhaps just rehabilitate them -- and on the other hand celebrate the culture they are creating. Islamic Cultural Studies does need a more balanced view and this article certainly points the way. Keep up this lovely, sensitive work.!!
10
One must understand one's enemy to defeat them. This is a worthy article.
20
Why don't we have some musing on Hitler's softer side? This is so insane. There's nothing to understand about their pathological behavior except how to stop it.
13
Then lets see similar articles about the Tea Party, Donald Trump and his supporters. The left would be outraged at any compassion or respect shown to them!
6
Hitler has been dead for around 70 years, Doug. There's no need to understand him any longer. But we do need to understand these people as we will never kill all of them but we maybe can stop them from recruiting.
4
This must be the best support those monsters can ever get! From the NYT no less! Misguided, doesn't even begin to describe this piece, unless it's an inside joke and we, the readers didn't get it. Yes, remember that even Hitler loved animals and the mountains of Bavaria. Try to think of that in the same breath as six million Jews, Gypsies, gays, political dissidents and those labeled "undesirable" murdered in a systematical, cold-blooded fashion, with that German love for "Ordnung" and efficiency. Yes, think of those and then try to rationalize why you had to make these criminals more human - they aren't and don't deserve to be called humans. Perhaps read up on the kids they wire up as suicide bombers and send out without a thought of their lives. They are cold, calculated, power- and domination-hungry murderers. Now I'll have to think about whether to continue my subscription or trample on the values my parents gave me and on my principles. I'll miss you, but that will be a small price to pay.
41
Thanks for bringing common sense and right thinking to this misguided article, that makes campaign for ISIS...oh dear!
10
But "those people" are human. Part of the reason extremism works is that it demonizes the other, which is also what most of these comments do. "Love the sinner, hate the sin."
4
Jim of Massachusetts is spot on. This article illustrates how seductive the culture of ISIS can be to a disaffected individual seeking an alternative belief system that promises adventure, community, and purpose. All tyrannical movements have had such a soft side that invites ignorant and gullible people into their ranks. And the better they are able to provide these cultural amenities, the more likely they can always have a growing population of adherents.
18
I can't help but contrast this with how this paper depicts the right wing (anywhere in the west), American conservatives, the Tea Party, cops, Donald Trump supporters, and anyone who has any (even slightly) derogatory thing to say about illegal immigration, Muslims, blacks or transgendered.
All the above are depicted as almost cartoon characters- ignorant, crazy, and blindly hateful.
I am sure you can find some Tea Partiers and Trump supporters who " enjoy storytelling and watching films, cooking and swimming." Trump himself might enjoy these activities. But this paper would never depict him or those with a similar ideological bent with the same regard and sensitivity as these Islamic terrorists.
All the above are depicted as almost cartoon characters- ignorant, crazy, and blindly hateful.
I am sure you can find some Tea Partiers and Trump supporters who " enjoy storytelling and watching films, cooking and swimming." Trump himself might enjoy these activities. But this paper would never depict him or those with a similar ideological bent with the same regard and sensitivity as these Islamic terrorists.
39
Not sure I understand the point of this. Maybe if I convert, they won't chop my head off and I can sing a cappella hymns with them. I guess the point is to humanize the monsters. They are almost Jewish or Christian, except for the part about wanting to kill anyone different than them and subdue the rest of the world into conversion and adherence to their discriminatory, isolationist, chauvinistic hatred and inhumane treatment of any form of difference other than theirs.
26
No! The point is to understand them! And we need to understand them in order to understand why young western men and women would leave the west to lead this kind of life. You think you can bomb them away? Nothing on earth--no number of bombs short of total nuclear obliteration of the planet--will ever rid us of this menace. Our only hope is to try to understand what is happening, and why.
2
Thank you, Mr. Hegghammer, for your insights into radical Islam. You have shown me a world very similar to Pentecostal Christianity and Charismatic Catholicism, at least in its passion. (I do not mean to say that all religious belief leads to violence. Nor is it my intention to demean either sub-culture. They are just very passionate.)
I knew there had to be more than the "Theology of Rape," and bloody revenge to these men. Perhaps if we can reach their hearts through poetry and love of God, we can find a peaceful end to these conflicts.
I knew there had to be more than the "Theology of Rape," and bloody revenge to these men. Perhaps if we can reach their hearts through poetry and love of God, we can find a peaceful end to these conflicts.
6
>Perhaps if we can reach their hearts through poetry and love of God, we can find a peaceful end to these conflicts.
You can get more with poetry and a nuke strike than wth a nuke strike alone.
You can get more with poetry and a nuke strike than wth a nuke strike alone.
Oh gosh, a kinder gentler jihad? So warm and fuzzy. Why arent we letting them in? Maybe they can have a poetry reading at my local. i will call all my friends and invite them. Maybe we can do it in a public square or a stadium or something and call a holiday and offer free food to come. We really should give these guys a chance and support their creativity by amassing in public places to experience it.
See? Anybody can write insanity and get it published.
See? Anybody can write insanity and get it published.
36
you are right!
6
>a kinder gentler jihad?
How about a TV sitcom, "Jihad And Me?" Mary Tyler Moore isn't available, is she? I can almost hear the theme music...
How about a TV sitcom, "Jihad And Me?" Mary Tyler Moore isn't available, is she? I can almost hear the theme music...
There's a lot of stuff in The Times these days that The Onion could print without editing, especially about race and gender, but this column might be the best yet. Still, the reader may take away a useful point in judging the results of US military intervention in yet another Muslim country--and of Muslim immigration to the US:
Muslims may rape and behead non-Muslims (or even Muslims of a different sect) without compunction but they feel empathy towards other Muslims (at least of their own sect):
"Mr. Zarqawi was known for weeping during prayer and when speaking about Muslim women’s suffering under occupation."
Muslims may rape and behead non-Muslims (or even Muslims of a different sect) without compunction but they feel empathy towards other Muslims (at least of their own sect):
"Mr. Zarqawi was known for weeping during prayer and when speaking about Muslim women’s suffering under occupation."
23
It seems especially odd that the writer presents the fact that Zarqawi weeps at the suffering of Muslim women without noting the hypocrisy present.
21
I wonder if he weeps at how non-Muslims and gays fare under Muslim occupation.
>There's a lot of stuff in The Times these days that The Onion could print without editing, especially about race and gender
Thus the economic efficiency of socialism, not to speak of saving all those noble trees.
Thus the economic efficiency of socialism, not to speak of saving all those noble trees.
I understand the point of this article, to shed light on why people are attracted to ISIS, to gain insight into motivations. But surely something could have been written with that purpose that conveyed less of a glowing, appreciative, even defensive tone? "Most of the time they aren't fighting, you know! They're telling stories, swimming and cooking! The halls are full of music!" Plenty has been written about, say, abusive cults who drew their members in with a false sense of brotherhood and community. Or brutal serial killers who could also present a charming persona to gain victims' trust. Yes, it's important to know what the attraction is. But this more reads like an advertisement for the great life you can find with ISIS.
22
I think the article's tone might be intentionally provoking -- and it certainly worked! But, sort of misfired, due to the large number of readers at concrete operational level.
6
There is an appropriate time and place for that kind of "intentionally provoking" approach, but I don't think this is it.
2
Sounds like "Springtime for Hitler" from "The Producers". I am sure Nazis liked to sing and dance.
This article sounds like a public relations firm trying to get people to like Jihad and the like. It might work better in Syria and Iraq.
This article sounds like a public relations firm trying to get people to like Jihad and the like. It might work better in Syria and Iraq.
15
@Lance - that was my first thought after I had to start reading over again after the first two paragraphs. Wow! I get that the author is trying to provoke thought, but all successful political movements offer their own brand of "song and dance" and us vs. them. I am so happy that they love poetry more than in the West, but their poetry reeks of radical dream sequences. It's not really about flowers. This is the oddest, shocking piece that you may have ever printed NYT.
This guy can't be serious. "Jihadi activism" - is that what we're calling these murderers now, activists? And these glowing descriptions of the richness of "jihadist culture". This article goes beyond sympathy to almost advocacy. Something you'd expect to find in 'Inspire' or some other Islamist propaganda. Yet, somehow, I'm not surprised to find it here. Like the old adage, "when you stand for nothing, you'll fall for anything".
28
This paper has gone haywire, and I will no longer help finance it. I'll be joining those of you who are finally canceling your subscriptions. Enough is enough; vote with your feet.
38
John, why do you want to cancel your subscription? This article points out something very important for our culture and military to realize -- we are dealing with a movement whose roots are much deeper than political terrorism. It helps intelligence communities figure out what we need to do to win. That is the meaning of this article. (Steven)
9
>This article....helps intelligence communities figure out what we need to do to win.
Offer drum circles and pottery classes? A Yale course in "Oppressed Jihadis In History: A Critique of Commodity Capitalism?"
Offer drum circles and pottery classes? A Yale course in "Oppressed Jihadis In History: A Critique of Commodity Capitalism?"
1
leave it to the NYT and a dude working at the Norwegian Defense Research Establishment to come up with this.
Read the headline only
Saw the "friendly" foto
That was all I needed.
Read the headline only
Saw the "friendly" foto
That was all I needed.
10
This article points out something very important for our culture and military to realize -- we are dealing with a movement whose roots are much deeper than political terrorism. It helps intelligence communities figure out what we need to do to win. That is the meaning of this article -- it is not aggrandizing anything. (Steven)
7
David, "their roots are deeper than political terrorism", but all they do is leave mayhem, destruction and hate in their wake.
1
What's next? The Lighter Side of Adolf Hitler? After all, he liked opera, loved his dogs and liked to play with his associates' children. You've lost your collective mind.
20
just what I was going to comment.
5
Very interesting and well researched.
Necessary to know the enemy.
Also, very creepy.
Maybe this piece should have come with a warning -
"Do not read within an hour of eating."
My poem to these people who, like the Nazis, combine some level of culture with the worst of human atrocities:
Roses are red.
Violets are blue.
Culture or not,
we'll eliminate you.
Necessary to know the enemy.
Also, very creepy.
Maybe this piece should have come with a warning -
"Do not read within an hour of eating."
My poem to these people who, like the Nazis, combine some level of culture with the worst of human atrocities:
Roses are red.
Violets are blue.
Culture or not,
we'll eliminate you.
15
And the reason for this article is what?
To show that these animals are human?
How many of those souls who have been oppressed, enslaved, executed, taxed, tortured, raped and mutilated could see their humanity...
To show that these animals are human?
How many of those souls who have been oppressed, enslaved, executed, taxed, tortured, raped and mutilated could see their humanity...
30
Isn't this a nice article? I feel all warm & fuzzy towards militant Islam now. They can sing songs or recite poetry to their victims when they cut their heads off. No legitimate reason to publish this article; it is not in the public interest.
38
I could not agree more.
11
I have a newfound compassion for ISIS as a result of this insightful article. Could you now do a similar one on pedophiles? Or perhaps serial rapists? How about a piece on the softer side of a Salvadorian drug cartel assassin?
Nah. Just kill them all.
Nah. Just kill them all.
30
I'm really shocked by the number of responders who think the article is somehow in support of ISIS. Reread it - the article is telling us that there is a lot more to what we are up against than what we see when we are watching Fox and CNN. That there is a lot more to defeating ISIS than we might be thinking. It helps to really, really know your enemy.
Stop being stupid Americans with zero critical thinking skills. It didn't help us a lot in Iraq, and it isn't going to help us with ISIS.
Stop being stupid Americans with zero critical thinking skills. It didn't help us a lot in Iraq, and it isn't going to help us with ISIS.
20
It surprises me, too. It's clear that the jihadis have come up with appeals that are drawing young people to their "cause". And refusing to look at those, on the grounds that the enemy must only and always be characterized as monstrous and evil keeps us from addressing what they're doing to draw those people. It limits us in our own responses and prevents us from any efforts to counter the propaganda of ISIS. They can point to the howls and cries for violence coming from us, and characterize themselves as the more humane. It also causes us to attack our own people who would counter the propaganda, or even acknowledge its appeal, as though only howls and cries for blood are "patriotic". That's just not so.
13
I love the NY Times - I have been a daily reader for 30 years. I respect their well-rounded writing, different viewpoints, and great journalists.
But this, along with the hit piece on the Navy Seals, is too much. I bid adieu. I will miss you, but not enough to stray from my principals.
Best,
But this, along with the hit piece on the Navy Seals, is too much. I bid adieu. I will miss you, but not enough to stray from my principals.
Best,
41
Hit piece on the Navy Seals? You read that it was their own American military brothers that were accusing them of crimes right? Listen, I get very uncomfortable with the way nytimes handles some news. But, the purpose of the news isn't to conform to your preformed opinions and beliefs. The news is meant to challenge our beliefs by broadening our perspective of the world.
6
Well said Alex.
If Mark's "principals" are to ignore the good and decent members of our military who are trying to expose the bad apples so we can hold our heads high and have respect for our service members...
Then, he needs to re-examine his principals.
If Mark's "principals" are to ignore the good and decent members of our military who are trying to expose the bad apples so we can hold our heads high and have respect for our service members...
Then, he needs to re-examine his principals.
4
Here, here. This piece is disgusting.
5
How fun! Jihadists as hipsters. Is this some kind of joke? For shame NY Times. I can't believe my eyes. This is the lowest excuse for an editorial I have ever seen.
75
I have no interest in learning about the "softer" side of radical Islam-isn't it bad enough we have to watch, and worry about, the harder side of a terrorist organization that beheads people and sends the videotape to the internet for all to see?
This article seems like an apologia for ISIS, and I don't understand why the Times chose to publish it.
This article seems like an apologia for ISIS, and I don't understand why the Times chose to publish it.
57
You are generally more thoughtful in your comments. Getting a handle on how members of this group think is key to managing the threat they pose.
10
@bucktomeat: You make a good point. I jumped the handle because of the title and the promise of learning all about their artistic side. Of course, there is nothing evil people will not do to advance their cause--so if wiser folks than I, hopefully anti-terrorism strategists, can learn from how they are polishing their act to appeal to the vulnerable side of potential recruits, the article may helpl.
7
OK I just read the article. It was different than what I expected from the title, and my only problem was assssing how these cultural activities could help recruit foreigners to the cause.
Aside from finding a few phrases funny – a rhetorical question what do Jihadis do in their spare time?--The most interesting thing I learned is the cultural view of crying
and its role in defining Machismo. Is maybe crying during prayer a way of attracting sensitive people to the cause?
The other stuff, the accoutrements of dress, hygiene, etc. don't seem to be as relevant to recruitment or attraction strategies. What I would like to see more of our articles by this author and others on how members of ISIS make the first contact with visitors to their recruitment websites. Foe example, what are the first things they say? How do they bond? At what point do they arrange a private meetings if that indeed is in the cards? And most important of all, how do they realize when a recruit is at the jumping off point?
This is the sort of stuff I would like to know, as well as the signs and signals of potential radicalization on the off chance we ordinary Americans might overhear something that would allow us to figure out when it might be appropriate to contact the police. An informed public likely to be a safer one providing if it knows what to look for.
Aside from finding a few phrases funny – a rhetorical question what do Jihadis do in their spare time?--The most interesting thing I learned is the cultural view of crying
and its role in defining Machismo. Is maybe crying during prayer a way of attracting sensitive people to the cause?
The other stuff, the accoutrements of dress, hygiene, etc. don't seem to be as relevant to recruitment or attraction strategies. What I would like to see more of our articles by this author and others on how members of ISIS make the first contact with visitors to their recruitment websites. Foe example, what are the first things they say? How do they bond? At what point do they arrange a private meetings if that indeed is in the cards? And most important of all, how do they realize when a recruit is at the jumping off point?
This is the sort of stuff I would like to know, as well as the signs and signals of potential radicalization on the off chance we ordinary Americans might overhear something that would allow us to figure out when it might be appropriate to contact the police. An informed public likely to be a safer one providing if it knows what to look for.
6
I heard Charles Manson was a bit of a poet, too, and that Jeffrey Dahmer was a fine tennis player. But only in their spare time, when they weren't busy slaughtering people.
27
It's disgusting how the New York Times tries to humanize these scummy nasty people as if it rationalizes what they do. They need to be dead. Period. Shame on you New York Times.
52
People can write about whatever nonsense that catches their fancy. What is utterly despicable and abhorring is NYT's decision to publish an article like this so prominantly. In this day and age nobody needs a put together newspaper, especially one that has completely lost a sense of propriety. I will be cancelling my subscription - not kidding - my hard earned money can find better use. I respectfully urge everyone with similar perception to consider doing the same.
34
So they cry a lot... Ah! More to show you that they really need to have their heads fixed. What a stupid subject to write about!
8
I guess next this paper will explore the art, fashion and unique culture of the white supremacy movement in the U.S. and the 'poetry' and music of their lives in compounds? Revolting.
30
You are missing the forest for the trees. This article points out something very important for our culture and military to realize -- we are dealing with a movement whose roots are much deeper than political terrorism. It helps intelligence communities figure out what we need to do to win. That is the meaning of this article -- it is not aggrandizing anything. (Steven)
10
PBS already did it. There is an unending stream of people willing to join these cults for the same type of reasons outlined in this article. In order to stop people joining, we have to FULLY understand what makes them join. It's not rocket science!
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/next/body/hatred/
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/next/body/hatred/
10
Are you kidding me? This piece is absolute tripe. What's next - making rational arguments for being a neo Nazi? If you join these groups you become a sociopath/psycopath, there is no justification or middle ground. Poetry, crying? I get what the writer is trying to do, but his tone and attitude is utterly morally irresponsible.
18
The author spent 4 years studying this! It would have been more effective if he had spent 30 min in a terror attack or lived in a country at war! So out of touch with reality, makes me want to vomit!
9
The older I get, the less curious I am about jerks and bullies. I get the value of the exercise, but trying to understand a villain is an activity that is never reciprocated. Whether we’re talking about a jihadist or a white-supremacists Tea Party politician, intellectual curiosity is relentlessly one-directional and exhausting.
20
Looking forward to the Times imminent coverage of the softer side of the Pro-Life movement.
Certainly there's something at least as sympathetic to say about the cold-hearted theocrats who want life protected as early as possible. That evil philosophy must have something good in it if we dig as hard as we do through ISIS's poetry readings. Does reading rhyme with beheading? Maybe in the Islamic State?
Certainly there's something at least as sympathetic to say about the cold-hearted theocrats who want life protected as early as possible. That evil philosophy must have something good in it if we dig as hard as we do through ISIS's poetry readings. Does reading rhyme with beheading? Maybe in the Islamic State?
8
Of course they are people just like us, but not all of us, just those of us who for whatever reasons think their religion is more important than secular democracy and are willing to be cruel or violent about it.
6
What's the purpose of this article? We already know what we need to know about ISIS and other Islamic Terrorist organization. They murder people who do not support them or try to escape their clutches.
I don't care if they have a "softer" side and I am not sure that it is even important. They commit violent criminal acts on a regular basis - Even serial killers like Music, poetry etc. but that does not make them a person that a community wants living in their midst.
I am not sure why the NYT even published this article. Is it trying to say that we should forgive their criminal acts? I am not sure what the purpose of this article is - I don't care what a murderer does in his spare time - apparently the NYT is.
With an article like this no wonder the reputation of the NYT is going down hill!
I don't care if they have a "softer" side and I am not sure that it is even important. They commit violent criminal acts on a regular basis - Even serial killers like Music, poetry etc. but that does not make them a person that a community wants living in their midst.
I am not sure why the NYT even published this article. Is it trying to say that we should forgive their criminal acts? I am not sure what the purpose of this article is - I don't care what a murderer does in his spare time - apparently the NYT is.
With an article like this no wonder the reputation of the NYT is going down hill!
20
The author claims to have "studied" the "jihadis" through their autobiographies (their fantasies and lies), videos (fiction), blog posts and tweets (bluster and hyperbole) and defectors' account (how many defectors did he talk to and the other defectors' account we have been reading mention nothing about poetry, music and art)
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/21/world/europe/isis-defectors-reveal-dis...
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/11/15/confessions-of-an-isis-...
Ha! The author has done disservice to journalism by painting a fantasy of a lifestyle.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/21/world/europe/isis-defectors-reveal-dis...
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/11/15/confessions-of-an-isis-...
Ha! The author has done disservice to journalism by painting a fantasy of a lifestyle.
11
This is an excellent counterterrorism (CT) study. We need more of this. We still need to blast them off the battlefield, but without getting inside their culture and decision lop, we will not succeed.
78
This is an incredibly sophomoric article with little to recommend it in reflecting terrorist 'culture'. The terrorist culture is one of complete domination, hatred, and death. It is criminal. It is not cultural.
25
That's right, Spin, you have the answer, so there's no need for further inquiry.
3
you cannot blast them as we created them (off course our gov won't tell us that but look at it indirectly and through the fog glasses) both alkaida and isis with saudis' help for financial reasons (military; oil) and domination
I am a peace-loving, tolerant person, but to be honest I do not care about the softer side of terrorists. If he put down his weapon, picked up a hammer and nails, and helped build a school, a hospital, a shelter for the homeless, THEN I might care. Give up your life of terror, murder, and death. REPENT for your sins, and then we can read some Walt Whitman together.
14
You don't get it: he's saying understand them so you can short circuit their drive.
8
Then where is the article about the softer side of cops? The softer side of white supremacists? The softer side of wife-beaters?
According to you, we need to understand that so we can appeal to their drive.
According to you, we need to understand that so we can appeal to their drive.
9
No, you don't get it. It's much less complicated than you imagine. We're dealing with brainwashed, religious fanatics who have bought lock, stock and barrel into the Jihadi ideology.Short of successfully de-programming them, an uncertain and unproven 'cure', the only treatment required is to eliminate them wherever found. This 'understanding' drivel is the product of a similiar brainwashing: the Liberal-left notion that everything is relative and all cultures equivalent.
6
The steady stream of pro-Islamic propaganda that this paper has been spitting out is sickening. This is a new low, though.
Gee, I wonder why the NYT's circulation has been on a rapid, and steady decline?
How about writing something pro-American for once?
Gee, I wonder why the NYT's circulation has been on a rapid, and steady decline?
How about writing something pro-American for once?
55
NYT, I hope you were not too serious about this person's POV. How does one "Who Weeps A Lot" cry after most brutally murdering another human because that person does not share his belief in the God of Muslims? Get serious here, this piece is so fraught with oxymoronic ideas/ideals that no rational person could view it with anything beyond incredulity.
To any Muslim reading this, I respect your religion, but as our 1st Amendment says, America has freedom of religion, but implicit in that is likewise, freedom from religion. Keep yours and I, for one, will keep mine in my heart not in others faces.
To any Muslim reading this, I respect your religion, but as our 1st Amendment says, America has freedom of religion, but implicit in that is likewise, freedom from religion. Keep yours and I, for one, will keep mine in my heart not in others faces.
10
What fun. Thanks for this.
Maybe the Times can run a story on the softer side of Nazi Germany.
Or the finer points of beating women who don't wear burkas and sawing prisoner's heads off with a knife.
Actually, ISIS put this on video - maybe you can feature some on your website so we can appreciate the beauty for ourselves.
Maybe the Times can run a story on the softer side of Nazi Germany.
Or the finer points of beating women who don't wear burkas and sawing prisoner's heads off with a knife.
Actually, ISIS put this on video - maybe you can feature some on your website so we can appreciate the beauty for ourselves.
22
NSA should consider Thomas Hegghammer a candidate for the no fly list. On remote mode, going native and recruiting artists for IS who would finish scrubbing out the evil of this sub-cultural threat more than it already has been.
8
You obviously don't get counterterrorism. The most effective CT is one based on short circuiting their drive to become terrorists.
6
You nailed it! I've always said to the 2nd graders I teach -- Those jihadists, they are just like us! They love music, poetry, religion and their parents. If you happen to have a jihadist as a neighbor, don't call the police, get to know him and be helpful to him as you would any neighbor!
10
I thank god this article allows comments because I am so angry and am relieved to be able to express it. Yes, Islamists have a soft side. So do Nazis, KKK, serial killers, rapists, child molesters, Islamaphobes and various other people demonized by our the left. Everyone has a soft side. The leftist media has published several articles that are sympathetic to why young people become enthralled with Islamist causes. Why not do the same with white supremist causes? With serial rapists? With abortion terrorists? How about some sympathy for those who are violent towards Muslims, such as Milosevic or the Buddhist extremists who persecute the Rohingya? I've noticed all articles about violence towards Muslims is never sympathetic towards the perps. They have their reasons too, don't they? Everyone drawn to pathos and violence has an excuse that can be seen as sympathetic if framed a certain way. Every lynch mob thinks that they are doing the right thing. There would be outrage if there was the same sympathy given to rapists, white racists, Islamaphobes, and various other ideologies that are pariahs to the left.
40
Absolutely, positively! But in reality no one who understands this paper's agenda and biases is surprised by this piece and/or the lack of similar pieces on those groups the Left regularly targets.
8
Everyone is missing the point here. YEs, they are repulsive. If we can understand the appeal, we can short circuit it. It's like vaccination rather than trying to treat a disease once it'e very advanced.
8
We're not missing the point, john -- OUR point is that this article isn't just explaining, it's propagandizing. It's making the case for jihadist "community." It is sympathetic, rather than analytical.
If it were an analysis, nobody would be offended. But, this article isn't analysis, it's a recruitment tract. It belongs in the pages of "Dabiq," where it would not seem in the least out of place, not the New York Times.
If it were an analysis, nobody would be offended. But, this article isn't analysis, it's a recruitment tract. It belongs in the pages of "Dabiq," where it would not seem in the least out of place, not the New York Times.
4
I can't believe, actually I can, that the New York Times is publishing a piece on the "soft side" of militant jihad. The New York Times, the apologist for terrorism! The liberals may think this kind of reporting is cool and groovy, but real Americans, who love this nation and what it stands for don't.
15
Im from the South too, but I also "get" what constitutes effective Counteryerorism, which is understanding your enemy. Yes, blast them with kinetics, but if we can get inside their brain and short circuit their drive to become jihadis, so much the better. The only way to do that is to understand them. And, yes, still blast them with ordnance.
5
I'm a Liberal that thinks this article is disgusting. I'm a real American pal-there's plenty of commenters today that are Liberals that think it's a terrible article. Your definition of "American" is predictably narrow.
9
The reason (I suspect) they're crying a lot is their misplaced guilt of their horrific acts. I have to wonder if we had to understand the rich culture and warm camaraderie of the Nazis and Japanese before we had to fight then, of if we just had to fight them. Understanding your enemy is smart, seeming to find redeeming values is confusing. Is this how appeasement starts?
3
I don't think he presents anything redeeming about them. Crying is weird, like Hitler.
1
Appeasement started on September 11, 2001.
1
I do not want to understand the culture of Jihad. It wants to destroy the world the West lives in. I therefore have no choice but to want to destroy their world. Their 'culture' will cease being attractive the instant it becomes obvious that joining it is a path to quick, violent, anonymous death.
Dan Kravitz
Dan Kravitz
21
I know, whenever I hack someone's head off I like to curl up with a nice Darjeeling and listen to my old Barry Manilow albums.
70
Little known article of the Geneva Convention: it's forbidden to listen to Barry manilla, because it's worse than being waterboarded.
2
The New York Times has truly lost its way. The tone deafness of this article is makes my jaw bounce off the floor in astonishment. This article reminds me of the Rolling Stone Tsarnaev cover.
60
I'm amazed at the low level of the comments here. Can you people not read?
The point of the article isn't to celebrate the cuddly side of ISIS. It's to show how their "culture" draws people in. The jihadi phenomenon would be baffling if it didn't entail anything more than beheadings.
You're bleeding right I want to know about Hitler the painter, Hitler the music lover, etc. To neglect that means to neglect the power of Nazism, its illusions and its fantasies, the connection between its narcissism and its cruelty.
History is full of tyrants who weep as they put entire populations to the sword. Violent people are often appalling sentimentalists. And you people can't be bothered to try to think that through.
The point of the article isn't to celebrate the cuddly side of ISIS. It's to show how their "culture" draws people in. The jihadi phenomenon would be baffling if it didn't entail anything more than beheadings.
You're bleeding right I want to know about Hitler the painter, Hitler the music lover, etc. To neglect that means to neglect the power of Nazism, its illusions and its fantasies, the connection between its narcissism and its cruelty.
History is full of tyrants who weep as they put entire populations to the sword. Violent people are often appalling sentimentalists. And you people can't be bothered to try to think that through.
169
I have a feeling most of these people aren't finishing the article. They see the headline, read a paragraph or two and don't finish the read, then figure they have anything but a worthless opinion about the author/NYT/article.
5
This article has a tone of sympathy which would cause outrage if the subject was a group out of commit genocide against Muslims, abortion clinic terrorists, rapists, KKK, or the Nazis. There have been articles about the Nazis "softer sider" but the narrative and tone are very different, This feels like pro-Jihadist apologist and propaganda.
6
Yes we did read. I just skipped the analysis because we understand it and don't need to explain it again. The end response is the same. I can also go into Islamism and conservative Islam if you want. Conservative Islam is a war of ideas. Militants (Isis, al Nusra, etc...) is a war with bullets.
4
O thank you for humanizing the murders, rapists, and beheaders of radical jihad! What a touching piece! What most people don't know is that Adolph Hitler was also an accomplished artist, and this doesn't get nearly enough emphasis amidst all the mean talk about his murdering millions of people and unleashing untold suffering across continents.
22
Thank you Joseph. The absurdity of this article is stupendous.
10
It's too bad the jihadis can't tell manipulative , exploitative (not to mention, execrable) poetry from the real thing, which in its true forms aims to increase the beauty of the world, not act as incitements to mayhem and murder. I agree that we must examine closely what is drawing so many people to radical Islam in order to understand and ultimately defeat it. Perhaps if we gave them something better to read . . .
8
This headline belongs in The Onion, not the NYT.
65
YES!!!
5
The nyt continues to astound me. In the same Sunday section, an article condemning the USN Seals and this fluff piece for ISIS. You need to rethink the current world situation and your approach to it.
37
Don't you know...Americans are always bad.....nothing warm and cuddly about them and don't forget we are racist and intolerant too. Always have been will never change.. Of course, people in Europe who have seen how the Russians treat people or have histories of Muslim aggression long before the USA even existed tend to have a bit of a different view even when the US puzzles them.
@Ted Dowling: That article did not condemn the Seals as a whole. It addressed some potentially illegal actions by I believe three of them. (And among their superiors, as I recall, it portrayed one positively and one negatively.)
1
Is there really a difference between sociopathic humans who are taught to kill with impunity. We all are capable of killing, the only question is why and how to stop them.
1
Was the purpose of this article to drum up reader responses that the NYT believes are lagging as of late? That it is better to be known even if for publishing utter garbage, than to be ignored?
Is absolute filth like this pretending to be an article going to improve the collapsed reputation of the NYT as a news medium?
Is absolute filth like this pretending to be an article going to improve the collapsed reputation of the NYT as a news medium?
13
Thanks. I have been longing for an article on the lighter side of beheading.
126
There is, whether we like it or not, a battle besides the violent one going on here, and recognizing that is not sympathy with the enemy. We need to fight with ideas and ideals, with truth--the truth of what our beliefs and ways are, and what the ways that ISIS or ISIL is selling. This needs to be part of our own battle against them, which anger and violence cannot address.
7
Intellectualism will not convince people to not kill you. Yes, I am aware of understanding your enemy. This article is a weak attempt. Trying to "understand" this cult-like variation of Islam does not make you more virtuous as an author, publication, or human. It just makes you seem like an amateur in our world. I would argue that your pedantic attempt is dangerous to the non aware populous.
21
Leave it to the NY Times to sugarcoat Islamic terrorism. This puff piece is the worst example of softball journalism since the Times magazine ran an equally repulsive article in 1939 humanizing Hitler by taking readers on a glimpse into his home life in the Bavarian mountains prior to World War II. That photo of Andre Poulin clutching a rifle staring blankly into the camera is not a very reassuring example of the lighter side of Militant jihardism.
14
This is an insult to all those who have suffered a loss at the hands of these idiots: killed or maimed themselves, or lost a loved one or now care for a person whose life is forever changed by these murderers. The headline is particularly repugnant; to use such language to describe vicious and deranged killers is a travesty.
23
The challenge then is to convince would-be jihadists that life is so much better filled watching Entertainment Tonight, Justin Bieber and Miley Cyrus, working two jobs while enduring bumper to bumper traffic for stagnant wages, and full access to the latest news about the Kardashians and Bruce ... uh, I mean Caitlyn Jenner.
6
Gosh, next an examination of the soft side of Nazism and the SS. After all, Hitler had a certain appreciation for art and loved dogs. Goering had an eye for art and was a serious collector. The SS commandants of various death camps had a warm family life. Himmler was said to have been sickened from watching a mass shooting of Jews.
11
There's no "next" about it. The New York Times published that article on August 20, 1939, not 11 days before Nazi Germany invaded Poland:
http://timesmachine.nytimes.com/timesmachine/1939/08/20/121425903.html?p...
"Herr Hitler At Home in the Clouds" describes in nauseating detail Hitler's home life in Bavaria, including his favorite foods, love of dogs, and even little gems such as "Marshal Goering, who owns a pleasant little chalet on the Obersalzberg..." and "Hitler can be a good listener..."
The NYT has a long-established history of "humanizing" homicidal maniacs.
http://timesmachine.nytimes.com/timesmachine/1939/08/20/121425903.html?p...
"Herr Hitler At Home in the Clouds" describes in nauseating detail Hitler's home life in Bavaria, including his favorite foods, love of dogs, and even little gems such as "Marshal Goering, who owns a pleasant little chalet on the Obersalzberg..." and "Hitler can be a good listener..."
The NYT has a long-established history of "humanizing" homicidal maniacs.
13
Surely you are kidding me by posting this article?
13
I tried to read it but couldn't (wouldn't) go beyond this: "When jihadis aren’t fighting — which is most of the time — they enjoy storytelling and watching films, cooking and swimming."
Every human has this "softer side," which evil easily exploits. I do not doubt that there are poets and musicians and gourmands among them, but their actions speak loudest and clearest and so to hell with them.
Every human has this "softer side," which evil easily exploits. I do not doubt that there are poets and musicians and gourmands among them, but their actions speak loudest and clearest and so to hell with them.
22
To quote Boone from 'Animal House':
"A new low. I'm so ashamed".
Of course, he was talking about a relatively harmless fraternity party where "they may have taken advantage of their female party guests", not a revisionist, apologist rewrite of current events by the newspaper who's masthead proudly states "All the news that's fit to print".
What's next weeks story? Eichmann was a planning and logistics genius? Pol Pot was simply reducing overpopulation?
Maybe the Times editorial review board should consider where they'd be in the execution line if the Slaughterer's henchman do come into ultimate power. Do you think this tripe would get you an extra 5 minutes of breathing?
"A new low. I'm so ashamed" indeed.
"A new low. I'm so ashamed".
Of course, he was talking about a relatively harmless fraternity party where "they may have taken advantage of their female party guests", not a revisionist, apologist rewrite of current events by the newspaper who's masthead proudly states "All the news that's fit to print".
What's next weeks story? Eichmann was a planning and logistics genius? Pol Pot was simply reducing overpopulation?
Maybe the Times editorial review board should consider where they'd be in the execution line if the Slaughterer's henchman do come into ultimate power. Do you think this tripe would get you an extra 5 minutes of breathing?
"A new low. I'm so ashamed" indeed.
11
Since that black flag is strongly tied to human slavery, shouldn't its display be limited by law like the Confederate Flag for the same reason?
Plus, the cutting-up-children thing gets really old quickly. And the forced sex slavery thing. And the beating-those-leaving-to-death thing.
Plus, the cutting-up-children thing gets really old quickly. And the forced sex slavery thing. And the beating-those-leaving-to-death thing.
8
And Hitler was a failed artist and had a girlfriend. These guys are just as evil. If a culture that promotes the killing of human beings and slaughtering of innocents is "emotionally rewarding" for you, then you have serious problems.
I'm sure there were German people in the 1930's who felt the Nazi party was a great "cultural community". We see how well that worked out. History is repeating itself right before our eyes. I think I'll write a poem about it.
I'm sure there were German people in the 1930's who felt the Nazi party was a great "cultural community". We see how well that worked out. History is repeating itself right before our eyes. I think I'll write a poem about it.
9
What? How about an SS trooper's softer side. You gotta be kidding me.
7
Hitler loved dogs and patted children on the head. We did not need to understand the "better" side of Hitler or the Nazis to understand that we needed to rid the world of them. I'm with Shay and most of the other commentators on this -- the tone of this piece makes my skin crawl. How could the Times have thought this was worthy of publication? What's next, understanding and admiring pieces about pedophiles? Please have some respect for the millions (yes millions) of direct victims, to include the tens of thousands of dead and their relatives.
12
I am stunned and offended by this ridiculous article.
Was it helpful or informative to know that Hermann Goerring enjoyed classical music and was a big patron of the musical arts? Or that Pol Pot enjoyed reading poetry?
No. They are brutal murderous thugs with zero regard for human life or morals. Any attempt to paint them as anything BUT that is patently offensive.
Was it helpful or informative to know that Hermann Goerring enjoyed classical music and was a big patron of the musical arts? Or that Pol Pot enjoyed reading poetry?
No. They are brutal murderous thugs with zero regard for human life or morals. Any attempt to paint them as anything BUT that is patently offensive.
17
@JFarkus: "Was it helpful or informative to know that Hermann Goerring enjoyed classical music and was a big patron of the musical arts? Or that Pol Pot enjoyed reading poetry?"
Actually, yes, those things are often very useful to know. When US officials meet their foreign counterparts, they are briefed on their backgrounds, and you can bet that that includes any available personal information. Skilled negotiators can often use that information to their advantage, for example by building rapport when trying to extract concessions. Having more information is always better than having less.
Actually, yes, those things are often very useful to know. When US officials meet their foreign counterparts, they are briefed on their backgrounds, and you can bet that that includes any available personal information. Skilled negotiators can often use that information to their advantage, for example by building rapport when trying to extract concessions. Having more information is always better than having less.
6
How sweet. They paint and write poetry in the blood of their victims. They shed tears of joy as they pray and slash off heads. We in a secular society dedicated at least in theory to the preservation of life can't comprehend it.
Sufis , an off shoot of Islam, reveres the love poetry of Rumi. But it in turn is persecuted by Jihadists almost as much as non Muslims. So it is not enough to revere Allah. You must do it a certain way if you are to keep your head.
I really weep at this Jihadist perversion of Islam, belief and for the tears of the victims and their survivors..
Sufis , an off shoot of Islam, reveres the love poetry of Rumi. But it in turn is persecuted by Jihadists almost as much as non Muslims. So it is not enough to revere Allah. You must do it a certain way if you are to keep your head.
I really weep at this Jihadist perversion of Islam, belief and for the tears of the victims and their survivors..
10
Great Article. Before reading this, I found the appeal of ISIS incomprehensible. We cannot defeat what we cannot understand.
I am reminded of Hitler's propaganda film Triumph of the Will. There is nothing in it that would offend a non-Nazi but a single oblique reference to "racial purity". The rest of it is cute babies, pretty young girls in dirndls, and handsome young men in uniforms planting trees. That was the image that enabled Hitler to win elections, and this article shows that ISIS is projecting a similar false face to its recruits. it is priceless for us to know, and even temporarily empathize with, this image if we are to counter it.
I am reminded of Hitler's propaganda film Triumph of the Will. There is nothing in it that would offend a non-Nazi but a single oblique reference to "racial purity". The rest of it is cute babies, pretty young girls in dirndls, and handsome young men in uniforms planting trees. That was the image that enabled Hitler to win elections, and this article shows that ISIS is projecting a similar false face to its recruits. it is priceless for us to know, and even temporarily empathize with, this image if we are to counter it.
127
If the world had rid itself of Hitler by understanding him and voting him out of office your case would be much more powerful.
We did not, in fact, need to understand Hitler's appeal to defeat Nazism. Indeed, "understanding" Nazism prevented the world from confronting Hitler's legions in a timely manner. Ultimately, a combination of armored divisions, battleships, fighter aircraft and the men and women of the greatest generation -- not understanding -- did the trick.
We did not, in fact, need to understand Hitler's appeal to defeat Nazism. Indeed, "understanding" Nazism prevented the world from confronting Hitler's legions in a timely manner. Ultimately, a combination of armored divisions, battleships, fighter aircraft and the men and women of the greatest generation -- not understanding -- did the trick.
24
It was MISunderstanding Hitler that prevented the the world from confronting him in time. If Chamberlain had read Mein Kampf from cover to cover before going to Munich, he would never have believed what Hitler said about the Sudetenland.
The Allies did not share your view that understanding the enemy was unnecessary. There were people in Allied espionage reading every bit of German propaganda throughout the war, and dropping leaflets from planes to counteract it. And if anyone in the German opposition had had Goebbel's brilliance for propaganda, Hitler would never have come to power, and the those battleships and aircraft would have been unnecessary.
No one is denying in this case that military force is necessary. But no shrewd general or statesman has ever believed it was sufficient.
The Allies did not share your view that understanding the enemy was unnecessary. There were people in Allied espionage reading every bit of German propaganda throughout the war, and dropping leaflets from planes to counteract it. And if anyone in the German opposition had had Goebbel's brilliance for propaganda, Hitler would never have come to power, and the those battleships and aircraft would have been unnecessary.
No one is denying in this case that military force is necessary. But no shrewd general or statesman has ever believed it was sufficient.
"To understand this phenomenon, we must recognize that the world of radical Islam is not just death and destruction. It also encompasses fashion, music, poetry, dream interpretation. In short, jihadism offers its adherents a rich cultural universe in which they can immerse themselves."
ISIS kumbayah moments. The link is no doubt already up at the ISIS social network site.
ISIS kumbayah moments. The link is no doubt already up at the ISIS social network site.
9
Shocking. I find this awful, NY Times.
25
We might as well know about it. Being ignorant of the nature of these appeals is no defense. And combatting music and poetry with guns is not useful; we need our own music and our own poetry again. We need to show more than money or violence to the world, and we can. We can if we try; we have much in us to offer of beauty and of ideals for ourselves and others. If we've lost them, we need to get them back.
4
why?
2
'Governments are much better equipped to take on the Slaughterer than they are He Who Weeps a Lot'
They had better be able to take on both because the end result will be the same.
They had better be able to take on both because the end result will be the same.
There is a confusing and slightly irritating (to this reader) failure to mention gender in this article. When the writer talks about "militant jidhadi" culture, is he only speaking about the men who practice it? If so, he should say so. There is no mention of women in this article, yet the piece presents itself as a universal account of the cultural practices of a certain group. . . .
6
Thank you for mentioning this - I remember reading an article several years ago by a travel writer about the joys of travel through beautiful Afghanistan and it so annoyed me because, as you note, it applied only to half (actually it' less than half but we won't quibble) the population yet was written as if to a universal audience (as if women were allowed to travel solo through Afghanistan). This particular myopia is so depressingly dismissive - as if women don't actually participate in the world.
2
What about this part of the article? "These poets can be anyone from within the movement, men or women of any rank. The Islamic State’s most famous poet is a Syrian woman in her 20s who goes by the name Ahlam al-Nasr, or Dreams of Victory. (While jihadi women generally socialize separately from men, the Internet has allowed women to take a more active part in the movement’s cultural life.)"
2
What is gained by trying to humanize those who wantonly murder innocent children women. The are cold blooded killers full stop.
Ary Kempler
Ary Kempler
36
If we are going to devote billions to defeat an enemy, we should understand them thoroughly, and yes that means humanizing them. Every suicide bomber and mass murderer in ISIS was once a child who came from a family. They were/ are individuals with thoughts, emotions, and interpersonal relationships. To deny these simple facts and depersonifying them is no better then them collectively calling us "infidels". Know thy enemy.
7
Maybe the Times will print a few favorable articles about the police officers involved in controversial incidents. Maybe they have some redeeming values. Nah, they're just murderers.
I cant understand why those Republican candidates want to slaughter these thoughtful, artistic people.
I cant understand why those Republican candidates want to slaughter these thoughtful, artistic people.
16
I guess the point of this article is that 1) Jihadis are just like you and me, 2) They live in a community where they find acceptance (which, by extension, means we should accept them?), 3) They're not *all* bad, they just haven't "found" themselves yet, 4) They like poetry and music (so, maybe if we appeal to their artistic side, we won't have to kill them?), 5) These are sensitive people and we'd learn to love them, if we only gave them a chance, 6)...
From the article: "Jihadi life is emotionally intense, filled with the thrill of combat, the sorrow of loss, the joy of camaraderie and the elation of religious experience. I suspect this is a key source of its attraction."
And, this article serves as a nice apologia for these psychopathic murderers, asking us to understand them, as if in doing so we'd find a way to accept them.
Not to mention, making it look an awful lot like a place that disaffected young people might go to find camaraderie, etc.
Nice job, New York Times. This article will do more to recruit young Americans to ISIS than a day's worth of jihadi Tweets.
The only thing we need to understand about these people is where they are and how many of them. That way, we can target them and take them out. Afterwards, when kids in the West see the pile of burning bodies strewn across the rubble, maybe they'll think less about the poetry and more about the certain death that we would visit upon them. I'm guessing that might act as a deterrent...
From the article: "Jihadi life is emotionally intense, filled with the thrill of combat, the sorrow of loss, the joy of camaraderie and the elation of religious experience. I suspect this is a key source of its attraction."
And, this article serves as a nice apologia for these psychopathic murderers, asking us to understand them, as if in doing so we'd find a way to accept them.
Not to mention, making it look an awful lot like a place that disaffected young people might go to find camaraderie, etc.
Nice job, New York Times. This article will do more to recruit young Americans to ISIS than a day's worth of jihadi Tweets.
The only thing we need to understand about these people is where they are and how many of them. That way, we can target them and take them out. Afterwards, when kids in the West see the pile of burning bodies strewn across the rubble, maybe they'll think less about the poetry and more about the certain death that we would visit upon them. I'm guessing that might act as a deterrent...
72
I think you are missing the point of the article, Elfego, which is in order to understand what makes Jihadi's tick, it is important to understand all aspects of their culture, both good and bad. How can you combat a movement if you do not understand why people are attracted to it? The sense of camaraderie it offers might explain why the unemployed and disenfranchised are more likely to join. Similar to why someone might join a gang in America.
7
montclair_dad,
No one has demonstrated a link between poverty and jihadism. The most famous jihadis have all been college graduates and, at least in the case of Osama bin Laden, a millionaire. Most of the young recruits that I've seen described have all been middle class and at least moderately successful, like the San Bernardino killer.
Joining a gang is an act of desperation, not something a person does just because they are seeking "community."
At no point did we try to understand the Nazis. At no point did we try to understand the Japanese. At no point did we try to understand Mussolini's fascists. We just killed as many of all these groups as we could, until they got tired of dying. Then, they surrendered.
Last time I checked, German Nazis, Italian fascists, and imperial Japan were no longer issues. Maybe we could learn from these successes.
It was Viet Nam and the anti-war movement that started the "we need to understand our enemy" trope. Interesting that that's exactly when we started losing wars, isn't it?
No one has demonstrated a link between poverty and jihadism. The most famous jihadis have all been college graduates and, at least in the case of Osama bin Laden, a millionaire. Most of the young recruits that I've seen described have all been middle class and at least moderately successful, like the San Bernardino killer.
Joining a gang is an act of desperation, not something a person does just because they are seeking "community."
At no point did we try to understand the Nazis. At no point did we try to understand the Japanese. At no point did we try to understand Mussolini's fascists. We just killed as many of all these groups as we could, until they got tired of dying. Then, they surrendered.
Last time I checked, German Nazis, Italian fascists, and imperial Japan were no longer issues. Maybe we could learn from these successes.
It was Viet Nam and the anti-war movement that started the "we need to understand our enemy" trope. Interesting that that's exactly when we started losing wars, isn't it?
8
With all due respect, Elfego, the author of this piece offers not an iota of "apologia." You find reportage of this other aspect of Jihadi life infuriating because of the horrors of the side of which we are all too familiar. This article is a service to us in the West -- not so we cultivate any sympathy for these butchers, but as a fuller look into the culture that sustains their recruits.
When watching particularly offensive reality shows, or dating programs, I confess whispering to myself, in irony, of course, "where is the Taliban when we need them?"
When watching particularly offensive reality shows, or dating programs, I confess whispering to myself, in irony, of course, "where is the Taliban when we need them?"
3
Hey, IS, is in good company, Hilter like music and painting, Sadam like gold gilded antiques, John Wayne Gacy liked painting clowns.
52
They're so soft and cuddly. Teddy bears really.
41
Who needs their heads anyway?
3
Who among us has not looked at the attacks in Paris or San Bernardino and thought, "How could anyone do this?" I, for one, am grateful to this writer for attempting to answer that question. Understanding the attraction of militant jihad is certainly a critical step in stopping young people from signing up.
15
It's a big, BIG leap from swimming, making snacks, and watching movies to shooting up a concert hall full of kids and a corporate Christmas party. There is no way to look at one and understand the other. Therefore, this article, and the above comment from Becky, is ridiculous.
12
I see no problem killing the Slaughterer and He Who Weeps a Lot.
8
"The social atmosphere (at least for those who play by the rules) is egalitarian, affectionate and even playful. Jihadi life is emotionally intense, filled with the thrill of combat, the sorrow of loss, the joy of camaraderie and the elation of religious experience. " What madness is this? Whatever the positives of life under ISIS, they are reserved strictly for those that live according to a twisted mockery of the Muslim faith. Similarly, Hegghammer mocks good faith argument and analysis. EVERY emotional outburst by a member of ISIS can trace its roots to either violence or religious fervor. There is no other side of the coin. ISIS does not experience the "thrill of combat," they experience the perverse adrenaline rush of slaughtering innocents. With whom have they REALLY fought? I've seen them killing women, children, civilians, reporters... That's not "combat." The "sorrow of loss" they feel is of their own making. And "JOY OF CAMARADERIE?" Who's camaraderie? The hostages in their cells? Their sex slaves and their soon-to-be-"martyred" "husbands?" The camaraderie full grown adults briefly share with the exploited quasi-children they plan to send out on suicide missions? The "elation of religious experience?" I guess I can't speak to that, but it's interesting that for all ISIS's talk of creating a safe haven for Muslims, they spend 99.9999% of their time killing Muslim people. There is really not much that can be gained from this article.
17
Running into crowds of unarmed men, women, and children shooting off AK-47s is not combat and is not the act of a soldier.
It is only what cowardly murderers and thieves do. The only thing lower might be the ''journalists'' who try to make them look acceptable.
It is only what cowardly murderers and thieves do. The only thing lower might be the ''journalists'' who try to make them look acceptable.
6
This is unbelievable. What next: Hitler had a softer side too? And what sort of poetry they are reciting when they behead people?
28
The Times did almost the same type of puff piece in 1939 running a jaw dropping piece about Hitler at his home in the Bavarian mountains. It was accompanied by a photo of Hitler dressed as a German county squire absently mindedly petting the German shepherd obediently seated next to him.
4
And Hitler loved dogs, children, and Wagner.
And why would anyone write something to make Jihadis like ISIS even a little bit attractive?
And why would anyone write something to make Jihadis like ISIS even a little bit attractive?
16
Scoff if you wish, but knowing your enemy is key to defeating him. I think this kind of information is valuable in understanding how jihadists recruit globally. Disaffected but not yet violent young men and women find meaning and fulfillment in the jihadi culture, and ultimately decide violence in its name is acceptable, even necessary. Without understanding its attractions, we can't stop it.
126
That may be true, but this kind of info needs to be in the hands of those who do the fighting. It won't help you and me. And a glorifying article in the NYT is the best propaganda they can hope for. Watch now for how many more misguided kids will be arrested trying to leave the country to join these murderers.
5
Juleezee, you are a citizen with the obligation to choose the best leaders with your vote. In a free society, you can't pass this responsibility off to the soldiers. That's why we all need to have this information.
1
This is why it is essential to discredit this nonsense, as opposed to trying to bomb everybody. We need a steady stream of information, day after day, explaining these beliefs are simply not true. If Fox News can create an alternate reality, there is no reason why this can't be done.
5
We need more than that, unfortunately. We need to offer them a equally appealing alternative.
6
Poetry in and of itself isn't an indicator of a refined and softer sensibility. What matters is the subject matter. And by your example of "Blaze of Truth" - "strike down every adversity and go reap those heads"- I'd say jihadist culture is as hard and irrational as it's actions on the battlefield.
4
Too bad Hegghammer has no psychological background or he would have noticed the obvious split that occurs in the narcissistic personality that is nonnegotiable and compartmentalized. It's as pathological as Ben Carson sating God made his hands do neurosurgery. He should have been suspicious when the subject of dreams arose, and they became the source of instructions from God.
20
The "softer" side of 7th century barbarism? Just how stupid can the response to GOP stupidity get? I guess we'll find out.
19
The Times hates Republicans more than they hate ISIS. By far.
3
I think radical religious militarism of any kind, from Islamic to Christian, attracts young people, mainly young men, because it affords them an outlet when society doesn't seem to offer them much. It allows them to become part of an idealistic, though wrong headed and destructive, narrative and a chance to be a hero in the eyes of their newly adopted community. Commercialization of life on every level in the west has divorced people from nature, each other and themselves. The sense of belonging to something ancient and from 'on high' gives these adherents a false identity and makes them feel worthy, special and part of something larger. We need to reach out and help young people find community and meaning in the secular and culturally diverse world.
161
The 4 factors to Radicalization explained by Maajid Nawaz are instructive here. They are:
1) identity crisis
2) grievance narrative (real or imagined)
3) charismatic recruiter
4) religious or idealogical dogma
1) identity crisis
2) grievance narrative (real or imagined)
3) charismatic recruiter
4) religious or idealogical dogma
7
Amala,
I think you're on to something.
Wish I could remember who to cite for what I read years ago regarding "coming of age" rituals in some "primitive" cultures and how the absence of such, relates to the problems of disconnectedness of youth in modern society.
I think you're on to something.
Wish I could remember who to cite for what I read years ago regarding "coming of age" rituals in some "primitive" cultures and how the absence of such, relates to the problems of disconnectedness of youth in modern society.
3
How do you reach out? They want what they want not what we want.
Now, I wonder: can't they have their jihadi culture and camaraderie and songs and all that without mass killings all over the place?
Now, I wonder: can't they have their jihadi culture and camaraderie and songs and all that without mass killings all over the place?
1
What is the real purpose of this article ?
13
To understand the enemy. it does no good to kill Jihadis if they can continue to recruit new ones. To defeat ISIS, we must understand why people join them. To understand them, we must be able to temporarily see the world through their eyes.
110
Understanding why people join groups like ISIS will not help us defeat them. Action is what is needed, not knowledge. Knowledge without action is worthless.
2
What must we do? Tell them we are sorry we're such infidels and behead ourselves. Or should be all just comvert and force our women to wear burquas?
Sorry but this article is ridiculous. PR for ISIS.
Sorry but this article is ridiculous. PR for ISIS.
6
Jihad is not a "rich cultural universe." This article is why people will vote for Trump and will never enjoy the NYT, or anything that could offer even the most minor enlightenment.
34
Jihad is a rich cultural universe compared to the one many young men find within our own society. What have we got? Smartphones, McDonald's, and Justin Bieber, that's what. Some people struggle to find meaning here.
This article is not an apology for ISIS. It does not condone it. It's merely an attempt to understand it. You must have asked yourself, why on earth would western young men and women leave our world to go and join that one, giving up family, gadgets, personal freedom, all of it. You must have asked yourself that, surely? This article is simply an attempt to provide an answer to that question. It's a question worthy of examination. It's not an excuse for these people's barbaric behavior! We cannot defeat these monsters without understanding them. They cannot be bombed away.
This article is not an apology for ISIS. It does not condone it. It's merely an attempt to understand it. You must have asked yourself, why on earth would western young men and women leave our world to go and join that one, giving up family, gadgets, personal freedom, all of it. You must have asked yourself that, surely? This article is simply an attempt to provide an answer to that question. It's a question worthy of examination. It's not an excuse for these people's barbaric behavior! We cannot defeat these monsters without understanding them. They cannot be bombed away.
2
The admiring tone of this piece makes me itch.
116
What part of "The idea is simple: To really understand a community, we need to look at everything its members do" did y'all not understand?
11
When the "community" is defined by their desire to murder everyone NOT in their community, there is no further "understanding" necessary.
9
Could you please point out what specific points in the article sounded "admiring" to you?
7
You wrote:
"The social atmosphere (at least for those who play by the rules) is egalitarian, affectionate and even playful. Jihadi life is emotionally intense, filled with the thrill of combat, the sorrow of loss, the joy of camaraderie and the elation of religious experience. "
Egalitarian? Does this mean the men are passed around as sex-slaves for the women?
Your words are sadly misleading and do not mirror the reality of living under a Jihadist regime. Even other Muslims are treated badly, and those who are not, despite what the Koran says about other faiths, are treated with incredibly brutality.
Liking poetry does not a human make.
http://wifelyperson.blogspot.com/
"The social atmosphere (at least for those who play by the rules) is egalitarian, affectionate and even playful. Jihadi life is emotionally intense, filled with the thrill of combat, the sorrow of loss, the joy of camaraderie and the elation of religious experience. "
Egalitarian? Does this mean the men are passed around as sex-slaves for the women?
Your words are sadly misleading and do not mirror the reality of living under a Jihadist regime. Even other Muslims are treated badly, and those who are not, despite what the Koran says about other faiths, are treated with incredibly brutality.
Liking poetry does not a human make.
http://wifelyperson.blogspot.com/
127
I expected better from you WP. Reread this article. Do you really think the author is trying to recruit for ISIS? He's trying to understand them better so we can destroy them.
7
Says you.
It is sickening to realise that jihadists can enjoy poetry or can weep from emotion even while planning beheadings, crucifixions and selling women into slavery. It makes it all much worse, somehow.
But I suppose we need to know the whole picture.
But I suppose we need to know the whole picture.
5
No mention of women.
20
Most people in the world do not weep politically. Across the globe aren't most moved to tears over God and loved ones? Weeping is not so different here.
The only acceptable reason for exploring the "softer side" of jihadists is to better enable us to track them down and eliminate them.
72
@Robert -- "The only acceptable reason for exploring the "softer side" of jihadists is to better enable us to track them down and eliminate them."
That's a good reason but it's not the only one. This kind of understanding is also useful in the effort to counter the radicalization of impressionable young people before they "cross the line."
That's a good reason but it's not the only one. This kind of understanding is also useful in the effort to counter the radicalization of impressionable young people before they "cross the line."
1
Yes, and the Nazis were fond of classical music. Which didn't change the fact that they were Nazis.
214
Aside from whether Nazis were actually fond of classical music (many of the party's blue collar recruits, I suspect, were more into beer hall polka,) this is a nonsensical response to the article.
Young Germans didn't join the Nazi Party because of "classical music." However, the sharp uniforms, the images of strength, and the propaganda of greatness and destiny, all contributed to the Nazi Party's appeal. To understand those things is helps us to understand how the Nazi Party came to power. Understanding how the Nazi Party rose to power is one prerequisite to stopping it from happening again under a different name.
ISIS is neither the first nor the only Jihadist group. It will probably not be the last. For the same reason explained above, unless you are interested in being on a Jihadism Merry-Go-Round for decades, it is important to learn how these groups recruit and grow.
Young Germans didn't join the Nazi Party because of "classical music." However, the sharp uniforms, the images of strength, and the propaganda of greatness and destiny, all contributed to the Nazi Party's appeal. To understand those things is helps us to understand how the Nazi Party came to power. Understanding how the Nazi Party rose to power is one prerequisite to stopping it from happening again under a different name.
ISIS is neither the first nor the only Jihadist group. It will probably not be the last. For the same reason explained above, unless you are interested in being on a Jihadism Merry-Go-Round for decades, it is important to learn how these groups recruit and grow.
10