I love the 'faux-burwell' score and the actual real 'fargo' score made me well up both times in season one and season two.
Nobody has mentioned the "in joke" of the Jewish-looking Gerhardt employee looting their silver after he thinks they're all dead?! Come one, this is a well known joke among many East Coast Jews: in old times, when someone died, greedy family members immediately went over to their house and looted their sliver when no one was looking. My husband and I both know about this little joke. Doesn't anyone else here??!!
"North of San Francisco." Talking about San Quentin, presumably.
1
Peggy's dream wasn't "precious"; it was a Raising Arizona callback.
6
there was one scene that drove me crazy as I'm a little OC re: scene continuity. When Ed is shot as he/Peggy are running down the alley, you can easily mark how far down the alley they have progressed by various landmarks in the dirt and along side the alley - probably 10-15yards away from the car. And as they continue running down the alley several more yards there is never any sign of a blood trail. Yet, when Lou arrives on scene he sees, and tracks them, based on a noticeable blood trail that begins almost right next to the car - a noticeable amount of blood loss/trail before the alley location where Ed is actually shot.
2
I'm not so sure Hanzee killed the driver in the alley accidentally, really aiming at Ed. It is my impression was that he had the clearest shot of the driver, and that it was the best way for him to immobilize the car, since they would have to remove the dead weight of the driver in order to take the car. I think Hanzee's ability to see so many moves ahead would have led to that result.
10
Geez, you're right. He was a killing machine.
I'm not usually so out of step with NYT reviewers or NYT readers, but I was disappointed in Season Two almost from the first episode. I watched every episode, each time hoping it would get better, but the story line just got messier and more unfocused. Can't complain about the performances, but I missed the razor sharp focus on fewer characters (i.e., Billy Bob Thornton and Martin Freeman) and the simpler but much more compelling plot.
4
We seem to be in the minority, but I am with you. The finale especially was shockingly bad.
1
San Quentin looks out on SF bay too. ya know. I thought the last episode was as awful as the last episode of Breaking Bad was excellent.
5
I don't want to have to watch the whole shebang over again so can someone explain why Hanzee shot the Gerhart's son and then set his sights on Kansas City after they killed all the other Gerehardts? Who was he working for? Who was the guy with his new papers? I'm definately watching the next series in a weekend marathon. Stretching out a complicated story line like this over 3 months requires a better memory then mine.
1
I rewatched season one and Moses Tripoli is definitely Hanzee. He delivers the same lines Hanzee does in his season two final scene.
"Dead. Not apprehended. Dead. Kill or be killed. Head in a bag. That's the message "
"Dead. Not apprehended. Dead. Kill or be killed. Head in a bag. That's the message "
4
Oh yeah, no doubt there. Fer sher.
It is known
It is known
1
Speaking of the kids on the baseball diamond, did anyone else think that these kids were the young versions of the hitmen from the first season of Fargo? And that their first bloody taste of violence came at the hands of Hanzee, which may have predetermined their future profession?
5
The thought did cross my mind, it'll be interesting to see if season 3 ties seasons 1 and 2 together.
I guess Rye was on to something with the electric typewriter venture (with the poor guy who got buried alive) as Milligan ended up with one another n his desk.
5
I've seen the movie twice. Whatever I think of it has nothing to do with the FX product, season one or two, and notwithstanding the association/contributions of the film makers. Please! Review the TELEVISION product. A review of bits and pieces of the movie, given that not everyone has seen it was, for me, disorenting. Where, exactly, does your retelling of the movie end and your review of the TV begin-- and end? Again, is doesn't have to be linear to be worthy of review. Please confine yourself to what readers expect, not what you, apparently, feel is needed by-way-of Midwestern, back story, philosophy.
4
Note that the "faces-of-death montage" that opens the episode concludes with the face of Betsy, who is not dead yet but has "the look," as the familiar voiceover (this time spoken by Lou) reaches the part about "Out of respect for the dead . . . ."
1
Peggy wants to go to the Pelican Bay prison, not San Quentin. That's why she mentioned "seeing pelicans".
1
No it's not pelican bay! Pelican bay is almost by Oregon! San Quentin is right across the bay from SF.
correct: San Quentin is north of San Francisco, on the water. Alcatraz had long ago become a tourist destination by the '70s
1
No mention of the space ship?! What the heck was that all about??! Any thoughts, anyone?
1
I read on the internet that there were many UFO's sightings in Minnesota in the late 70s, early 80s.
That bothered me a lot too... references all season, then almost nothing at the end ??
This was an excellent season--and thank you for these ongoing discussions (plenty of fine points made both in your articles and in the comments!).
I see the Milligan move into an office not as too blatant or literal--but rather as way of tying together the earlier Reagan references to the Darwinian economics the country is entering in the 1980s (as his new "boss" says: This is the 80s). So, now a murderous, amoral psychopath is in a new management position. And all his (contrived, sorry) literary references will mean squat here.
I agree about Betsy's line about Camus, but I think there's even more to it. As she says, only a person without a six-year-old to care for would have the self-indulgence to pronounce that all of life is absurd. It isn't simply her Midwest values but also her situation--battling death every day _and_ caring for a child that gives weight to her perspective beyond intellectual musings. Still, the show nods to Camus as well in Solversen's remark about the rock they all have to keep pushing (Myth of Sisyphus). I liked this balance in perspective.
Excellent performance by Patrick Wilson throughout the series--I fear it didn't show as much because of the extreme portraits of humanity surrounding him, but he seemed painfully real all season.
I thought "Alcatraz" also when Peggy made that remark: she thinks it's a resort prison with a view. An Emmy to Dunst!
I see the Milligan move into an office not as too blatant or literal--but rather as way of tying together the earlier Reagan references to the Darwinian economics the country is entering in the 1980s (as his new "boss" says: This is the 80s). So, now a murderous, amoral psychopath is in a new management position. And all his (contrived, sorry) literary references will mean squat here.
I agree about Betsy's line about Camus, but I think there's even more to it. As she says, only a person without a six-year-old to care for would have the self-indulgence to pronounce that all of life is absurd. It isn't simply her Midwest values but also her situation--battling death every day _and_ caring for a child that gives weight to her perspective beyond intellectual musings. Still, the show nods to Camus as well in Solversen's remark about the rock they all have to keep pushing (Myth of Sisyphus). I liked this balance in perspective.
Excellent performance by Patrick Wilson throughout the series--I fear it didn't show as much because of the extreme portraits of humanity surrounding him, but he seemed painfully real all season.
I thought "Alcatraz" also when Peggy made that remark: she thinks it's a resort prison with a view. An Emmy to Dunst!
10
Camus seemed to be floating around because of existentialism (even though Camus thought he wasn't existentialist). The world is irrational and absurd. Violence erupts around us. How do we deal with it? We fashion stories, beliefs, religions, philosophies. Betsy believes in a God who gave her a job to raise a child, no matter how much or how little time she has. Lou believes his purpose is to protect his family to the death if needed Hank believes he needs to help humanity communicate better. Hanzee believes "kill or be killed." Each individual has fashioned his or her philosophy about life, and that's what drives them. The meaning they attach to their lives is what allows them to go on.
How does Lou go back to work after what he has seen? The massacre of so many people caused by an absurdity -- a crazy woman who wouldn't drive a man to the hospital. What keeps Lou from giving up in the face of such madness? What keeps Betsy going, even though it is unfair she will not live to see her daughter grow? Betsy and Lou's individual philosophies about what their lives are about keep them going
I thing all three Fargos -- the movie and both TV shows -- are all about the individual continuing to function in an irrational world due to his or her own belief system. Which is pretty much what existentialism is all about. It's the beliefs we attach to our lives in order to deal with the irrational violence that periodically erupts around us, and it keeps us from giving up.
How does Lou go back to work after what he has seen? The massacre of so many people caused by an absurdity -- a crazy woman who wouldn't drive a man to the hospital. What keeps Lou from giving up in the face of such madness? What keeps Betsy going, even though it is unfair she will not live to see her daughter grow? Betsy and Lou's individual philosophies about what their lives are about keep them going
I thing all three Fargos -- the movie and both TV shows -- are all about the individual continuing to function in an irrational world due to his or her own belief system. Which is pretty much what existentialism is all about. It's the beliefs we attach to our lives in order to deal with the irrational violence that periodically erupts around us, and it keeps us from giving up.
9
Yes to all that--though I think the show (perhaps ironically) draws a dichotomy between the intellectualizing philosophy of existentialism and actually living. In Betsy's case, it isn't a story she tells herself about God but rather the fact that she loves her child: it's not a narrative--not an intellectual pursuit or a philosophy--it's life. This was brought home by naming one of the episodes this season after Kierkegaard's Fear & Trembling.
5
This.
1
An absolutely fantastic season, but just a tad underwhelmed by the season finale. It's nice that some main characters survived the carnage, but geez, an office job and some nice chit chat as an ending? What a let down.
3
I found Peggy's complaining reminiscent of the current crop of perennial victims at colleges today.
It was all about her being constrained, as if men aren't in their socially dictated roles. The juxtaposition of the pilot's life risking gesture is described as a male "privilege" by Solverson with her self-centered whining underscored the linkage.
Ah.... Peggy, you were a SJW well before it's time.
It was all about her being constrained, as if men aren't in their socially dictated roles. The juxtaposition of the pilot's life risking gesture is described as a male "privilege" by Solverson with her self-centered whining underscored the linkage.
Ah.... Peggy, you were a SJW well before it's time.
1
What a typical response from a clueless guy.
7
Proving my point. Thanks!
1
Haha exactly -- another question worth asking Peggy is who says that one must be it all? Who says that we can have it all?
More than a few loose ends. I found the last episode either very anti-clamictic, or purposefully setting up another season picking up where this one left off. A couple of obvious outstanding questions:
1. When and how did Lou get shot, disabling him for further police duty? I've been waiting for that for weeks.
2. Hanzee. The line he gave whoever it was that was setting up his new identity, was verbatim the Season 1 Fargo mob boss eating Chinese food laying down the approach to dealing with the Hess matter. And when Hanzee delivers that line, he's heading straight for KC to kill everyone involved. Presumably before disappearing to Tripoli. So now what?
3. Charlie--and Noreen. Charlie was a good guy and an interesting and developing character. I'm sure I'm not the only one that noticed that he and Noreen were immediately gaga over each other. Charlie's in prison. Noreen's Noreen.
4. Milligan--now what?
Anyway, either lots of loose ends, or (hopefully) a set-up for a subsequent season.
1. When and how did Lou get shot, disabling him for further police duty? I've been waiting for that for weeks.
2. Hanzee. The line he gave whoever it was that was setting up his new identity, was verbatim the Season 1 Fargo mob boss eating Chinese food laying down the approach to dealing with the Hess matter. And when Hanzee delivers that line, he's heading straight for KC to kill everyone involved. Presumably before disappearing to Tripoli. So now what?
3. Charlie--and Noreen. Charlie was a good guy and an interesting and developing character. I'm sure I'm not the only one that noticed that he and Noreen were immediately gaga over each other. Charlie's in prison. Noreen's Noreen.
4. Milligan--now what?
Anyway, either lots of loose ends, or (hopefully) a set-up for a subsequent season.
His name is now Tripoli that is not where he is going.
With a new name and a new face he returns to Fargo and takes over the Fargo mob. And then is killed by Malvo in season one years later.
With a new name and a new face he returns to Fargo and takes over the Fargo mob. And then is killed by Malvo in season one years later.
3
Hank invented emojis!
8
IN 1979, the Mafia ran KC and thereabouts from the City Market, on the north side of downtown. The bosses were tough-talking old Italian men, well-depicted in Scorcese's "Casino". This series did a good enough job of setting up the back office behind Milligan's thugs that I could swallow the dull corporate blandness of the offices. The thing I had trouble with, oddly, was the part about someone saving a million dollars a quarter just by organizing the mail room operations differently. Come on, millions of waste and cost overruns in the mail room?
Well, it's the mob. Probably saved all that money by taking out the guy in the mail room who was skimming off the receipts.
2
Scott, You've violated the first rule of criticism: Explore and evaluate the work presented, not the one you would have made.
I noted your reference to the "three cent stamp" that provided the ending of the Fargo movie. I have often wondered why nobody has seemed to get this Coen Brothers joke. As people who grew up in Minnesota, they certainly knew that the "duck stamp" is a stamp you put on your duck hunting license to validate it. It is NOT postage. There is a competition annually among wildlife painters to win the "duck stamp," but there is no such thing as a "3 cent duck stamp."
6
So I'm re-watching the final episode and something hits me: At the funeral for Otto and Rye, there are two women with some children behind Floyd and Simone. When Floyd is being questioned at the police station, she talks about the attack on her home and that "there were children upstairs". Ok, I assumed the 2 women and children were probably the wives and kids of Dodd and Bear. So, where were they when Mike Milligan and the surviving Kitchen brother came to the house?
I have a lot of questions about other things in the series, but the biggest question I have is where did they get all the pull-tab Miller Lite beer?
I have a lot of questions about other things in the series, but the biggest question I have is where did they get all the pull-tab Miller Lite beer?
1
You have to be pretty impressed with the progressiveness of the KC mob. How many businesses had 401K's in 1979?
8
Way ahead of their time. By about a year.
Peggy wanted to go to a federal prison overlooking San Francisco Bay. Patty Hearst went to a women's federal prison camp in Pleasanton, California, near Oakland. It's now called FCI Dublin: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Correctional_Institution,_Dublin
That's where I think she wants to go.
That's where I think she wants to go.
San Quentin. She was talking about San Quentin
1
There is also Pelican Bay. Peggy mentioned a pelican. We have no shortage of prisons in Californa.
I'm wondering whether Peggy will actually go to prison. Her only crimes would be leaving the scene of an accident resulting in a death and obstruction of justice (tampering with evidence) and maybe some kind of escape charge (in self-defense). She didn't murder or hurt anyone (not in self-defense). So, with no prior record, she may get off with some county time and probation. She just needs a good attorney.
With all of the Coen Brothers film allusions thus far in this season of "Fargo" I didn't think there was room for a "Raising Arizona" reference, but the recreation of the dream sequence was genius and perfection.
6
Mike Milligan at the end "Hey Frendo", as he greets the guy who comes back to steal from the Gerhardt home. Really enjoyed piecing through all the Coen Brother movie references, as the series went along. Great series, great musical choices. (very hard to equal T Bone Burnett for musical background but stye did a great job with Fargo. Love your recap! THANKS!
3
Wasn't it Betsy's dream, not Molly's?
5
San Quentin, a huge federal penitentiary built on some of the most glorious real estate on earth. The place makes about as much sense as Peggy so it would be a good spot for her. Why they don't demolish it, sell the incredibly valuable land and rebuild in a place that would trade jobs for an eyesore, is a mystery.
Great show chock full of interesting characters and what a nice ending. Better than season one.
Great show chock full of interesting characters and what a nice ending. Better than season one.
One complaint after a great season: Get a new Sound Mixer/Engineer. With all the great studio & field equipment & techniques out there nowadays, murky sound or dialog should not an issue. Several times during the season, during key scenes dialog was unintelligible & muffled.
15
Same complaint many had over both seasons of True Detective. I was afraid I was jut getting old!!
2
No problem with understanding here. As I consider US language from Non English Speaking Background, I just put on the captions.
2
I watch tv and movies with cc on all the time!
1
Poor Mike Milligan - reduced to being nothing more than a desk jockey at the end. Love it! I hope there's a season three.
2
There will be a season 3
i thought peggy wanted to go to pelican bay (a place for the worst of the worst, although by the coast in California)
The Ten Danson's character (Hank) symbolic language attracted the aliens, i.e., he communicated with his universal language. The alien's observed him and intervened to assist law enforcement, but as little as possible. They distracted Rye so that he would wander into the road and be run over; they distracted Bear so that Lou could kill him. That's the importance of the Hank's universal language and the tie-in with the aliens.
The Ten Danson's character (Hank) symbolic language attracted the aliens, i.e., he communicated with his universal language. The alien's observed him and intervened to assist law enforcement, but as little as possible. They distracted Rye so that he would wander into the road and be run over; they distracted Bear so that Lou could kill him. That's the importance of the Hank's universal language and the tie-in with the aliens.
24
I had wondered the same thing. It seemed as if the Aliens set the ball rolling & then intervened to end it. Like a Lab experiment with the "Human Lab Rats".
4
Wow, I didn't think of that, though it seems so obvious now that you mention it. It also ties in pretty neatly with the show's existentialism: when we're all literally the playthings of indifferent forces beyond our understanding, all we have in the end are the belief systems that give our lives meaning.
6
the end wasn't the end. i can't stand that. why can't any writer just have a clean, definitive end?
4
Definitely San Quentin. She said "north of San Francisco", not "in" San Francisco. SQ is, ironically, located in a spectacularly beautiful spot on earth. But the inmates have no access to the view unless they're arriving or departing.
5
I've long been a Kirsten Dunst "disliker" but her work here has completely changed my opinion - hats off to her.
19
It's nice to see someone like Ms Dunst get a fabulous role like this and really show how talented she is. I think this must be the case with lots of actors who get typecast as the leads in vapid rom-coms; Matthew McConaughey is another example of someone who just took the ball and ran when given a substantial dramatic role.
1
I thought the bum leg that Lou Solverson suffers from in season one, which ended his law enforcement career, came from a wound he suffered during the season two events. Not so, obviously.
3
He says in Season 1 that it happened during a routine traffic stop...
1
why does Peggy B. think she's going to a Federal pen? Near a Bay? She must be channeling that movie depicting the first female to get the gas chamber treatment in San Quentin, Ca.
She committed a state crime in Minnesota. That would be the jurisdiction.
She committed a state crime in Minnesota. That would be the jurisdiction.
1
It was clear she was just Hoping/Dreaming of such an outcome & verbalizing it as she often does
2
She crossed state lines.
2
When Peggy muses about the prison on the bay, she may be thinking of San Quentin. She has to know Alcatraz has been closed since about 1963. . .
On another note, the senseless slaughter that has pervaded the whole season seems to validate Camus' Existentialist views of the absurdity of life (all that killing! In such a bucolic region, full of such nice, well-meaning people!), regardless of Betsy's righteous scorn at an arty French author's conceits. In fact, I think Camus hit it right on the nose. I'll bet the Coens would agree, you betcha.
On another note, the senseless slaughter that has pervaded the whole season seems to validate Camus' Existentialist views of the absurdity of life (all that killing! In such a bucolic region, full of such nice, well-meaning people!), regardless of Betsy's righteous scorn at an arty French author's conceits. In fact, I think Camus hit it right on the nose. I'll bet the Coens would agree, you betcha.
7
Peggy, using her misunderstanding of reality, is referring to Pelican Bay prison (CA). Hence the mention of a pelican.
You're no doubt right. But "alcatraz" means "pelican," as the guy on the tour boat informs us. Even if Alcatraz itself couldn't be what P. was thinking of. Just saying. . .
It's a well known fact that Alcatraz was shut down after Clint Eastwood escaped from it.
3
"faux-Burwell" score worst thing of season 1? Man you should quit drinking, seriously. Jeff Russo's OST for season 1 is a masterpiece.
5
To me, the movie Fargo is on the top 100 American films list. I've never actually counted to see if I have a hundred on the list but Fargo is up there. Way up there. If for no other reason than that the dialog is as quotable as The Godfather or Casablanca. That being said, it is almost impossible for the TV spinoff of a great movie to compare favorably with the original. The two seasons of the TV Fargo are the exception. While frequently paying tribute (or at least, attention) to the movie, they stand on their own merits. And they stand tall. I'm not certain that this had ever happened before.
I loved every moment of every episode. And why not? It's a beautiful day...
I loved every moment of every episode. And why not? It's a beautiful day...
33
What a waste of time watching this show,if there is another season,I will not waste my time watching it.Would rather watch reruns of X files
Have not seen yet and will not read article or comments but if Peggy didn't get shot in the forehead I consider this series a failure.
Moses Tripoli is a character in season 1. He's the lobster bib wearing slob stuffing his face at the restaurant in one of the episodes, I think he's the chief of the Fargo mob (forgive the pun). Yes, that's him, and supposedly what Hanzee morphs into. The s1 guy makes the same "kill or be killed" speech Hanzee does. Don't buy that? Hello - UFO?
I'm thinking that there is a past connection between Mike Milligan and the Gerhardt family. When he first enters the Gerhardt house, he says "... I'm home". Could be just a joke but, then he walks to a cabinet, and stares for several seconds at a picture of a small child, and then turns it face down. What was the purpose of that scene? Who was the small child in the picture and why did Milligan linger on it?
Speaking of who is who, who was the person who gave Hanzee his new id papers? They seemed familiar with each other. At first I thought it was someone from Kansas City mob, and that Hanzee had been working for them for some time. But, from the conversation, you know that's not the case. But it's obvious Hanzee has connections out there somewhere.
I liked the "Happy Ending". I never thought Hank or Betsy would survive. I thought it was nice to have an "Awe" moment after so much killing. Looking forward to season 3.
I'm thinking that there is a past connection between Mike Milligan and the Gerhardt family. When he first enters the Gerhardt house, he says "... I'm home". Could be just a joke but, then he walks to a cabinet, and stares for several seconds at a picture of a small child, and then turns it face down. What was the purpose of that scene? Who was the small child in the picture and why did Milligan linger on it?
Speaking of who is who, who was the person who gave Hanzee his new id papers? They seemed familiar with each other. At first I thought it was someone from Kansas City mob, and that Hanzee had been working for them for some time. But, from the conversation, you know that's not the case. But it's obvious Hanzee has connections out there somewhere.
I liked the "Happy Ending". I never thought Hank or Betsy would survive. I thought it was nice to have an "Awe" moment after so much killing. Looking forward to season 3.
20
The man who gives Hanzee his new ID may be a Native American himself; Hanzee says a few parting words to him in what I think is Lakota (certain sounds in common with the language spoken in "Dances With Wolves") Hanzee would have used English if the other guy weren't able to understand what he was saying.
3
The photo Milligan looks at in the Gerhardt house is Simone's baby picture. Milligan had a relationship with Simone Gerhardt, remember? She wanted Milligan to kill her father.
13
That's what I thought, but the picture looked too old fashioned to be someone that young?
1
Disappointing finale to an awesome season. See you in San Quentin!
3
I disagree. The bullet that hit the old-man driver of the station wagon was a call-back to "No Country for Old Men" when Llewelyn tried to overtake the passing truck as he fled Chigurh. Hanzee's proven to be a deadly shot (the clerk at the Rushmore store) and he purposefully killed that old man for the same reasons Chigurh shot the truck-owner: because he could and as a show of deadly accuracy.
8
Milligan also refers to Bear's assistant as "Friend-o", another No Country for Old Men allusion.
Not to mention that Mike Milligan actually says "friendo" in the last episode.
Best TV show for 2015 -- hands down!
23
Agree, but I still kind of prefer the first series. Never mind, still brilliant stuff. I am impressed by the whole team who put this together!
2
Pretty blah finale for an otherwise very good series....
A 'where are they now?' screen roll like they had at the end of 'Six Feet Under' might have been good - e.g., Ed is dead, buried someplace, Peggy is in the slammer for x years at...., , the surviving Kitchen brother is ........, Hanzee is ......., etc.
'Justified' did a great job with this..... Here, not so much....
Let's check back on Milligan later - he's not staying in that tiny office very long, me thinks.....
I'll watch the 3rd iteration.....
A 'where are they now?' screen roll like they had at the end of 'Six Feet Under' might have been good - e.g., Ed is dead, buried someplace, Peggy is in the slammer for x years at...., , the surviving Kitchen brother is ........, Hanzee is ......., etc.
'Justified' did a great job with this..... Here, not so much....
Let's check back on Milligan later - he's not staying in that tiny office very long, me thinks.....
I'll watch the 3rd iteration.....
4
Agreed that the penultimate episode was really the finale, but this extended coda had a surprising poetry and philosophical heft — heavy-handed at times perhaps, but satisfying. I need to give it another view to pick up more homages to the Coen canon. The final bedroom scene was redolent of Marge and her duck-drawing hubby, of course, and the "all the ships at sea" line reminded me, however faintly, of the last line of James Joyce's greatest short story, "The Dead": "…like snow gently falling, upon all the living and the dead."
8
Wasn't that Walter Winchell's line? "Good evening, Mr and Mrs America and all the ships at sea"?
2
I prefer to see the entire series as a parable for the Reagan 80s — the consolidation of businesses and human spirit. Mergers and takeovers are hard, bloody work. Regular people will pay the price, butcher shops will close. But the rewards, for a few anyway, will be too many to count. For the rest of us, including Mike Milligan, the "warm champagne of corporate praise" is nothing more than a mid-level desk job and a 401k.
32
I think it was about the corporatization of America, global corporatism and the corporatization of war. Hank is a WWII veteran, a Gerhardt son was killed in Korea, Hanzee and Lou are Vietnam veterans. War is going to be different in the 80s and beyond. It will never be declared by congress. There will be no draft and the military will be increasingly replaced by corporations getting government contracts. No more KP for soldiers -- war is now catered with pre-processed potatoes and frozen/dehydrated food. War consists of America going into a country, using up our weapons and jets, destroying the other country's infrastructure so that we can send contractors in to reconstruct the area. High tech, telecom contractors rebuild what our weapons destroyed Weapons manufacturers then have an excuse for making more weapons. Without perpetual corporate war, there is no reason to replace unused weaponry, jets and ships.
The 80s taught people to accept layoffs, outright firings, a junk bond economy, the destruction of unions, ridiculous military endeavours like Grenada, illegal military endeavours like Nicaragua, weapons deals with our enemy Iran, all shots being called "from corporate" and "greed is good." Contractors were called in to cut corners and told corporations that the thing to do was to get rid of permanent employees and ....hire contractors instead.
Anyway, I thought the show was about how society, crime and war was about to be changed forever in the 1980s.
The 80s taught people to accept layoffs, outright firings, a junk bond economy, the destruction of unions, ridiculous military endeavours like Grenada, illegal military endeavours like Nicaragua, weapons deals with our enemy Iran, all shots being called "from corporate" and "greed is good." Contractors were called in to cut corners and told corporations that the thing to do was to get rid of permanent employees and ....hire contractors instead.
Anyway, I thought the show was about how society, crime and war was about to be changed forever in the 1980s.
23
Uh...and what about that flying saucer -- you know, the deus ex machina that saved Lou's life? No explanation or commentary forthcoming about that little bitty unresolved detail? Or was that already taken care of and I just missed it?
2
A metaphor. We are an ignorant, violent species that cannot control itself. They came, they saw, they couldn't be bothered with us ...
12
The electric typewriter on Milligan's desk was a great touch - "They're not just for secretaries anymore!"
36
It was great irony! I was waiting for a shot of the electric typewriter as Milligan looked at it. Recalling the electric typewriter salesman who basically set all the events in motion when he asked Rye to go intimidate the judge so he could still get his loan to buy the new stock of electric typewriters.
19
If I remember correctly, he probably stole it from the earlier character who was trying to open up a whole store selling the newfangled electronic gizmos. And, of course, met an untimely demise.
1
Not just an electric - a Selectric! Predecessor of word processors and all the computers on desks today.
2
So....did Hank invent emojis?
13
More than emojis -- the concept of icons. The two examples he gave are the "home" icon used in most early websites and the love "Heart" which became one of the most well-know symbols after the "I (heart) NY" logo.
A disappointing end to an uneven season. I view the show as a stand alone series with connections back to last season - not part of the Coen brothers oeuvre. The film references and fun cinematic insights don't help the writing or plot. In this case and, I appreciate Mr. Tobias's insights, but the show just didn't have a consistent voice/narrative that season one had. Season one owned the story. this season was literally all over the universe with the alien angle, odd musical choices and a lack of closure at the end. The show, in my opinion as we say in Minnesota, was less than a sum of its parts and obscured some terrific performances by the lead actors. Unlike Mr. Tobias, I applauded the direction of Mike Milligan missing, for the first time, the future of crime as a business not an endeavor. He had always been ahead of his time and the reward is an office and quarterly reports. Nice view of the Plaza.
3
Everything is a commodity - even violence.
The best TV in years. Mr. Hawley and company packed more great writing into one season than many other series combined.
One of the best things from Season 1 was Jeff Russo's channeling of Carter Burwell, so I for one was delighted to hear both in the finale.
One of the best things from Season 1 was Jeff Russo's channeling of Carter Burwell, so I for one was delighted to hear both in the finale.
8
Molly's dream is essentially the end of Raising Arizona. I think Mike Milligan's situation is from The Hudsucker Proxy. Loved the season.
10
I thought it was Betsy's dream. Seeing how Molly and Lou's future turns out.
3
Mike Milligan's dismal fate is shared by venal maniac Vic Mackey (played by Michael Chiklis) in "The Shield." Basically, death by being reduced to insignificance.
3
This episode was a total bore. Cheap sentimental crapola- philosophy that wouldn't fly in Junior High. Adam Arkin needs a sense of humor.
1
am i correct in assuming that hanzee's new face/identity is that of lorne malvo? late in season 1, when lorne is eating pie at the older lou's diner in that super-stressful scene, lou chit-chats about a hellish event in sioux falls in the 70s. clearly, he was talking about what happened this season. at the time, i thought he recognized something in lorne, which fits with his dialogue last night about hanzee popping up again someday. I hope this is what was intended. I am going to believe that it was. although I was half expecting to see billy bob thornton emerge from a plastic surgeon's office last night. I absolutely loved this season - it topped the last one for me, which I didn't think possible :))
13
I actually thought that too. It would be a stretch with his bone structure, but maybe with plastic surgery he could morph into Malvo. It might explain Malvo's killer instinct.
I think Lou just recognized evil when he saw it in season 1
3
The two kids at the end were Mr. Numbers and Mr. Wrench the enforcers of the Fargo Crime Syndicate from the first season. When they are killed by Malvo the crime boss says an eerily similar line that hanzee says in the end of this season.
Don't care extra Marital, don't care not business related. Not apprehended. Dead. Kill and be killed.
Don't care extra Marital, don't care not business related. Not apprehended. Dead. Kill and be killed.
1
I liked this finale a whole lot, despite a few small quirks and disappointments. Basically extending that finale from the movie into an hour long episode let us see the best acting of the season from all of our main players.
- Kirsten Dunst, playing the striving "beleaguered wife" archetype, who is also painfully schizophrenic and lacks empathy, to a T.
- Patrick Wilson, strong work as always.
- Ted Danson? Amazing. Warmed my heart.
- Bokeem Woodbine? Awesome as always. I'm surprised that it was played as such a twist that the KS mob is a boring corporate entity, as it was portrayed as such since episode one. What did Milligan expect?
I really enjoyed the dream/flash forward to the modern-day Solversons, because A) they are great characters and actors and B) it plays to the theme of the show, I guess, and also my favorite part of it: the fundamental goodness of the Solversons. Combine it with Lou's and Hank's resolutions this episode and, cheesy as it sounds, it's reassuring to see.
That said I am kind of disappointed by how things turned out with my main man, season 2 MVP Hanzee Dent. He's given a new identity as Moses Tripoli - is he really supposed to be the "Mr. Tripoli" in charge of the Fargo syndicate we see in season 1? If so, that's lame because he just gets unceremoniously gunned down by Malvo. If he's not, then what is going on? Kind of confusing and unnecessary with the season 1 tie-ins. Seeing young Wrench and Numbers playing catch was already more than enough.
- Kirsten Dunst, playing the striving "beleaguered wife" archetype, who is also painfully schizophrenic and lacks empathy, to a T.
- Patrick Wilson, strong work as always.
- Ted Danson? Amazing. Warmed my heart.
- Bokeem Woodbine? Awesome as always. I'm surprised that it was played as such a twist that the KS mob is a boring corporate entity, as it was portrayed as such since episode one. What did Milligan expect?
I really enjoyed the dream/flash forward to the modern-day Solversons, because A) they are great characters and actors and B) it plays to the theme of the show, I guess, and also my favorite part of it: the fundamental goodness of the Solversons. Combine it with Lou's and Hank's resolutions this episode and, cheesy as it sounds, it's reassuring to see.
That said I am kind of disappointed by how things turned out with my main man, season 2 MVP Hanzee Dent. He's given a new identity as Moses Tripoli - is he really supposed to be the "Mr. Tripoli" in charge of the Fargo syndicate we see in season 1? If so, that's lame because he just gets unceremoniously gunned down by Malvo. If he's not, then what is going on? Kind of confusing and unnecessary with the season 1 tie-ins. Seeing young Wrench and Numbers playing catch was already more than enough.
7
Not Alcatraz, San Quentin (near picturesque Sausalito) is the penitentiary she was referring to. Alcatraz had been long-closed by 1979.
1
Initially, I was disappointed, but, realized there was more. Moses Tripoli(Hanzee's new ID and new face) is the crime boss in KC from last year's story who was oft by the BBThornton character, Lorne Malvo. So, Hanzee did end up running the deal with his new face, brought the deaf kids on the ball field with him & little Molly became the police officer. We know the origin of the buried cache of money and how Hess found it and put it back. It's still out there for someone to stumble upon which might give us the next story arc. Maybe Peggy finds it after she is released from prison. The writing and acting was perfect. Kudos to all! Fargo is the new 6 degrees of separation.
9
I assume Peggy was referencing Pelican Bay
1
Peggy is talking about San Quentin State Prison, not Alcatraz. It looks over San Francisco Bay, and still houses prisoners.
I wondered if Peggy was talking about San Quentin, which also looks out on the Bay, since Alcatraz closed in the 1960s. But then again, Alcatraz is more famous and Peggy didn't always get the details straight...
A wonderful season; I enjoyed the show and the fine writing and acting all around, but felt a little let down in how the Hanzee story ended. I could not understand all the dialog between him and the "fixer." I'll need to watch it again and listen. Hard to imagine what Hanzee does next. Owns a car wash in Texas? Hires out to the mob as a contract killer? For an instant there I thought that the flying saucer "people" would abduct him (LOL).
He's given a Soc Sec card with the name Moses Tripoli, which was the KC mob boss killed in Malvo's spree in season 1. So I assume we're meant to think that Hanzee does get some plastic surgery and transform himself into this new identity.
1
Don't forget that Charlie Gerhardt is still alive (albiet in jail).
4
Yes. It seemed ironic that the Gerhardt thought to be the weakest is the only one who survived.
3
I love Fargo, and everything the Cohen Bros do or are involved in.
6
Any thoughts about what the palindrome of the title references?
1
Otto is a palindrome.
"Molly’s 'dream' tips too much toward the precious..."
Think you missed the point - It's an homage to RAISING ARIZONA, even quoting the voice-over in that film's dream sequence.
Think you missed the point - It's an homage to RAISING ARIZONA, even quoting the voice-over in that film's dream sequence.
6
Season 2 was terrific as a whole, especially considering that Season 1 was such a tough act to follow. That said, I felt that the finale was frankly a let-down. During Season 1, some of the action leading up to the finale was occasionally boring, but the finale was positively gripping. Season 2 was gripping during the lead-up to the finale and then it ended with a "Is that all there is?" Still, it was wonderful TV - bravo to everyone connected with it.
2
Whie iI appreciate Mr. Tobias's commentary and perspective, I found the finale a disappointment. The mini-speeches in the police cruiser and the scenes back at the Solverson home all rang false for me. Hanzee moves on, sort of. The only part that I thought made sense was the KC mob home office scenes. It was the first time Mike was out of step with the future.
With all due deference to fellow Minnesotans, the Coen brothers, I look at the series as a stand alone piece of work. I care about these characters and less about comparisons to the movie. With the exception of the writing for the leads, the dialogue and the plot points just didn't come together.
With all due deference to fellow Minnesotans, the Coen brothers, I look at the series as a stand alone piece of work. I care about these characters and less about comparisons to the movie. With the exception of the writing for the leads, the dialogue and the plot points just didn't come together.
2
Brilliantly written and wonderfully acted, with characters in whom I was seriously invested. A true epic. Thank you Mr. Hawley!
6
The scene at the playground is a very important one, I think. The children playing catch reveal themselves to be deaf. They communicate with signs and symbols. The same kind of universal language trying to be invented by Ted Danson. Hansee seeking a new life, and an escape, cannot resist interceding with implied violence ( long camera shot of knife in belt). All in all a terrific season.
18
Does anyone besides me think that the kids tossing the ball around in the final scene with Hanzee might be Mr. Numbers and Mr. Wrench (who I will always think of as "the jazz drums guys") from Season One? It looked like Hanzee might have been going over there to intervene when the bigger kids started bullying them. Maybe he takes them under his wing or something?
25
Actually, McClarnon said that very thing in an interview with Vanity Fair. Good catch.
Yes. Hank thinks a language of symbols would prevent miscommunication that leads to violence and war. But we know the deaf kid grows up to be hit man Mr Wrench and he communicates in sign language to his counterpart Mr Numbers as they kill people.
1
That was what I thought, since one of the kids was deaf. But it looked like they were already on their road, no need for Hanzee.
Great Season. Thanks
5
Peggy imagines the romance of Alcatraz but her future is more like Pelican Bay, which opened 10 years after the fictional events. When she said in a California prison maybe she'd see a pelican, that was just another example of her reaching for a fantasy vs the reality of the world.
3
Alcatraz is Spanish for Pelican....
1
"Molly's dream" was a nod to the final scene in Raising Arizona. There were a few Coen Bros. references throughout the season.
5
Peggy's longing for San Quentin, of course.
3
Exactly my thought, too, given the timeline. She could shack up with Manson.
My first thought too, but it's a State Prison. Of course, Alcatraz closed in 1963.
I thought Manson was in Vacaville.
I was expecting a little more on Hanzee.
To be honest, after so many good recaps, this one seemed a little rushed for a season finale.
Not so the actual season finale.
But back to Hanzee...
The kids playing baseball were communicating via sign language (sure, a reference to Hank's final speech) but also I assumed these two were the younger selves of Mr. Numbers and Mr. Wrench from Season 1.
Hanzee heading towards them, I figured, was a way of suggesting his recruitment of the pair, taking them under his wing, etc.
After all, he wanted a new face to go with his new identity, and plans to start his own outfit rather than working for another.
So surely this points to him ultimately being behind a lot of woes that come the way of the characters from the first season.
There were also quite a few additional No Country references/homages in this episode, to go along with the gas station owner (opened with his wife!) and the motel shoot out: the deserted small town street at night; the stalking and hunting; looking behind a car for a killer that has disappeared; the death of an innocent motorist who had been stopped, and asked to help. These were all part of the shootout across the border in No Country.
In fact, I think Old Men has possibly had the most influence on this season, out of any of the Coen films; from characters, to settings, scenarios and wardrobe (shout out to Mike Millgan's western getup).
To be honest, after so many good recaps, this one seemed a little rushed for a season finale.
Not so the actual season finale.
But back to Hanzee...
The kids playing baseball were communicating via sign language (sure, a reference to Hank's final speech) but also I assumed these two were the younger selves of Mr. Numbers and Mr. Wrench from Season 1.
Hanzee heading towards them, I figured, was a way of suggesting his recruitment of the pair, taking them under his wing, etc.
After all, he wanted a new face to go with his new identity, and plans to start his own outfit rather than working for another.
So surely this points to him ultimately being behind a lot of woes that come the way of the characters from the first season.
There were also quite a few additional No Country references/homages in this episode, to go along with the gas station owner (opened with his wife!) and the motel shoot out: the deserted small town street at night; the stalking and hunting; looking behind a car for a killer that has disappeared; the death of an innocent motorist who had been stopped, and asked to help. These were all part of the shootout across the border in No Country.
In fact, I think Old Men has possibly had the most influence on this season, out of any of the Coen films; from characters, to settings, scenarios and wardrobe (shout out to Mike Millgan's western getup).
6
not to mention that Mike Milligan actually says "friendo" in the last episode.
So did the dream sequence remind anybody else of Raising Arizona? I really liked the timeline tie-in to season one.
15
molly's dream was a big tip of the hat to nic cage's dream at the end of Raising Arizona.
absolutely, the music was the same
Does Hanzee morph into Malvo?
1
He becomes Anton in No Country, after he sees the face guy.
2
No, he becomes Mr Tripoli from season 1. Hanzee's about 35-40 in 1979, so in 2006, when season 1 takes place, he'd be pushing 70.