Since when is it legitimate for an alleged perpetrator charged with a crime to investigate themselves? Maybe I missed something over the past few weeks, but shouldn't there be an independent agency poking around VW to determine the root cause and assign blame? If we can't trust VW to produce cars without emissions cheat devices installed how are we to trust them to run a legitimate internal investigation?
I own a Touareg TDI and a gasoline powered Golf. Both have lost thousands of dollars in value over the past couple months even though the Gold isnt diesel powered and the Touareg seems to only require a software update (though it's unclear if that will have any negative impact) to meet EPA compliance. Perhaps I should sue VW on my own.
I own a Touareg TDI and a gasoline powered Golf. Both have lost thousands of dollars in value over the past couple months even though the Gold isnt diesel powered and the Touareg seems to only require a software update (though it's unclear if that will have any negative impact) to meet EPA compliance. Perhaps I should sue VW on my own.
When a person buys a car he/she relies on the reputation of a car and VW did have a great reputation.
But it was all hot air and now it has Gone With The Wind.
This was not a mistake but an intent to fool the people and the authorities.
It will be very costly but hopefully a lesson learned.
STAN CHUN
Wellington
New Zealand
But it was all hot air and now it has Gone With The Wind.
This was not a mistake but an intent to fool the people and the authorities.
It will be very costly but hopefully a lesson learned.
STAN CHUN
Wellington
New Zealand
Countless human deaths and lung disease suffering from NOX induced lung disease worldwide.
The more VW claims that only 8 to 9 of its people were responsible for the cheating software the longer their noses get. The greed of their former CEO in becoming the world's largest car seller was blindingly obeyed & shared by the entire VW management & engineers. They should all be put to the chair.
And where is the 'Man of the Year' lady on this ? Quietly relaxing, probably in her favorite town of Brixen on the Alps.
The more VW claims that only 8 to 9 of its people were responsible for the cheating software the longer their noses get. The greed of their former CEO in becoming the world's largest car seller was blindingly obeyed & shared by the entire VW management & engineers. They should all be put to the chair.
And where is the 'Man of the Year' lady on this ? Quietly relaxing, probably in her favorite town of Brixen on the Alps.
1
The CEO's just got to eager to make their stock shares go up. Europe is becoming just as bad as the United States.
The EPA has authority to fine WV/Audi in excess of $30,000 for each affected car with the Cheat Device. Others suggested a best solution for owners is to force the cheating company to buy back every car based on residual values the day before the story broke. The EPA should keep the balance of the total allowable fine less the repurchase price. I agree.
2
A least,VW is going to pay for it's sins,unlike govt,where incompetence,inefficiency,fraud,etc. continues and seems to just encourage more govt.
1
.... And in related news, VW announced today that they signed a new celebrity spokesperson, Lance Armstrong. Mr. Armstrong's approach to performance and his resilience in the face of adversity make him an ideal face of Volkswagen in this challenging period........
5
"Errors?" Errors are acts done mistakenly. These were intentional acts knowingly done to evade the emissions regulations and cover up the evasion. "Criminal conspiracy" comes closer to describing VW's actions.
2
"During World War Two, it's believed that as many as four out of every five workers at Volkswagen's plants were slave laborers. "
So, you are surprised that VW would lie about emissions?
The sad fact is that there are many companies with a long history of immoral behavior that continue to do business today.
http://www.11points.com/News-Politics/11_Companies_That_Surprisingly_Col...
So, you are surprised that VW would lie about emissions?
The sad fact is that there are many companies with a long history of immoral behavior that continue to do business today.
http://www.11points.com/News-Politics/11_Companies_That_Surprisingly_Col...
2
Like other crooks VW "found Jesus" only after being caught.
2
It wasn't the crime but rather the cover up. Ask Dick Nixon
2
The problem started with a stupid goal: to be the best-selling car manufacturer in the world. That is not an appropriate goal for a publicly owned business. That goal can be accomplished either by satisfying customers needs, or by fooling customers. If engineers chose the latter course, management was responsible because it made that course an option.
1
The part I have extreme difficulty to believe is the: "... the decision by employees..." - do you want to convince me that in a German Company notorious by its consensus approach to decision making a dozen clowns decide to cheat the system, went ahead and succeeded for so long?
1
Where was all this outrage when GM decided it was OK to allow AT LEAST 120 people to die (not to mention however many were told it was not GM's fault)... Now that the "evil" Germans do something similar the pitchforks come out.
Aggregate damage is likely very similar if not skewed towards GM. Considering aggregate damage, where is the condemnation of Apple for Foxconn, and plenty of other examples of essential slavery in dozens markets? And to add insult to injury, beyond not even addressing their shortfalls, Apple shareholders don't even seen returns on their Billions in investments.
What VW did was objectively awful, and they are receiving due punishment for it. $18 Billion, only in fines is not nothing, it is a suitable sentence. Especially when considering BP is facing $20 billion for something a million times worse (Deepwater Horizon BLEW UP on the FIRST DAY of use, then proceeded to spew crude oil for 53 days), and GM got an $900 million slap on the wrist.
People are saying the company should go out of business, and that is an unfair double standard. The lack of perspective on the matter is shameful. Plenty of companies are guilty of worse crimes and they have never even seen an indictment.
VW is looking at one of the biggest fines ever levied on a company, and people are still shouting for blood. Most automakers are already building at capacity. If VW were to go out of business the average price of a car would skyrocket, while quality plummets.
Aggregate damage is likely very similar if not skewed towards GM. Considering aggregate damage, where is the condemnation of Apple for Foxconn, and plenty of other examples of essential slavery in dozens markets? And to add insult to injury, beyond not even addressing their shortfalls, Apple shareholders don't even seen returns on their Billions in investments.
What VW did was objectively awful, and they are receiving due punishment for it. $18 Billion, only in fines is not nothing, it is a suitable sentence. Especially when considering BP is facing $20 billion for something a million times worse (Deepwater Horizon BLEW UP on the FIRST DAY of use, then proceeded to spew crude oil for 53 days), and GM got an $900 million slap on the wrist.
People are saying the company should go out of business, and that is an unfair double standard. The lack of perspective on the matter is shameful. Plenty of companies are guilty of worse crimes and they have never even seen an indictment.
VW is looking at one of the biggest fines ever levied on a company, and people are still shouting for blood. Most automakers are already building at capacity. If VW were to go out of business the average price of a car would skyrocket, while quality plummets.
3
Keep in mind the magnitude of what VW has done here. In the 11 million cars they have put onto the road with this issue, they have added about as much NOx pollution as the entire current US auto fleet. This is not a small thing. This is a giant, horrific thing.
And as an engineering manager myself, there is absolutely zero chance that some small group of engineers decided to lie and cheat about this all on their own. VW needs to dramatically change their culture so that people are willing to speak up about even the appearance of impropriety. That is the only way their apparently fear based management culture will change.
And as an engineering manager myself, there is absolutely zero chance that some small group of engineers decided to lie and cheat about this all on their own. VW needs to dramatically change their culture so that people are willing to speak up about even the appearance of impropriety. That is the only way their apparently fear based management culture will change.
2
By the time I got my first oil change I had already produced as much NOX as my last two cars combined over their collective lives.
2
The USA is tough and zealous going after foreign companies (recent examples: Toyota, now VW) ??? NYT is describing the German government as being "soft" on VW.
For hundreds of deaths GM, is getting away with just declaring bankruptcy and, at their discretion, are paying a few millions to relatives of peoples died in GM cars with faulty ignition key locks .
Also, why are ex-president Bush and his cohorts Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz etc. getting away with their "errors" about WMDs in Iraq that cost the lives of thousands of Americans and hundreds of thousand of innocent Iraqis. They have never been prosecuted and are still running around as free people and are collecting public pensions.
For hundreds of deaths GM, is getting away with just declaring bankruptcy and, at their discretion, are paying a few millions to relatives of peoples died in GM cars with faulty ignition key locks .
Also, why are ex-president Bush and his cohorts Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz etc. getting away with their "errors" about WMDs in Iraq that cost the lives of thousands of Americans and hundreds of thousand of innocent Iraqis. They have never been prosecuted and are still running around as free people and are collecting public pensions.
2
So, if you were on trial for murder, your defense would be that another individual at some time in history had also committed crimes. Good strategy. It doesn't work for school kids, and it doesn't work for VW.
1
Does VW seriously expect us to believe that this was the work of 9 individuals, that was not directed or condoned from the CEO level?
It might be 9 people, but one of those 9 people was the CEO himself.
It might be 9 people, but one of those 9 people was the CEO himself.
2
"Errors?"
These weren't "errors." Errors are mistakes.
These were deliberate attempts to defraud people.
These weren't "errors." Errors are mistakes.
These were deliberate attempts to defraud people.
3
No kidding! Software is the heart and soul of modern autos and no one should believe this is an oversight. People's life depend on not only the mechanics but also the electronics of the vehicle
1
This discovery demonstrates cheating and deception on a rare level. This is not just garden-variety bending of the rules, it is a diabolical obfuscation. It is damning and despicable and not just for VW. It is a blight on the character of industrial Germany itself. Where is the shame?
4
In the U.S. Navy (and I daresay in the navy of the Federal Republic of Germany) the captain of the ship has the responsibility for everything that happens in his command. And he has authority commensurate with his responsibility. While the fault may reside with a junior person, the captain is still responsible. This keeps every one on their toes. Not so at VW? Apparently.
1
I often heard smug comments such as, "I'd never buy a local car because they cannot compete with the low emissions standards of European cars". We must also look at the effect that this has had on the local car manufacturing industry in many countries around the world that have often struggled to survive because of the market impact of the misleading claims of VW.
Maybe VW has backhandedly driven local manufacturers toward greater diversification which will one day prove the downfall of the German manufacturer.
Maybe VW has backhandedly driven local manufacturers toward greater diversification which will one day prove the downfall of the German manufacturer.
Having worked as a mid level engineering manager for my entire career, I find it laughable that VW still tries to maintain only a few rogue engineers pulled this scheme off. Especially in a German corporate environment which has an incredible pecking order that we are not familiar with here in the states. These people are going to keep singing the same song hoping to avoid prosecution.
3
So, really, it's our fault because we didn't want another tank to fill.
Decisions of this magnitude for a company are not made by engineers or low-level managers. A decision about whether to use AdBlue, NOX scrubbers or another method had to be made by a high-level executive. The decision would commit the company to spending many millions of dollars, and it would affect their strategic marketing plans for diesel.
I don't know if we'll ever find out the truth, but a LOT more than 9 people were responsible for this disastrous decision. By the way, the 9 were "suspended" not fired. Once this blows over VW can call them back.
I don't know if we'll ever find out the truth, but a LOT more than 9 people were responsible for this disastrous decision. By the way, the 9 were "suspended" not fired. Once this blows over VW can call them back.
6
There were no error or errors committed by VW. The company intended to cheat and did so successfully. I hope they go out of business.
2
I find it comical that TDI owners are so indignant about this issue, a complete overreaction. They still have great cars that are FAR cleaner than diesels found in heavy transport. And, as we can see from this article, as time goes on we learn more about what really happened and I'm confident that upper management would never have supported such a fraud, and had no idea what was going on in the trenches.
This matter is an error in corporate organisation leading to a failure to detect regulatory fraud, and it's purely up to VAG and the authorities to sort it out, not the owners who purchased in good faith. Few people would know this, but VW pulled TDI diesels out of the California market, once in the late '90s and again about 2004 because they could not meet their corporate emissions, so they are not scared of sacrificing sales to do things right.
This matter is an error in corporate organisation leading to a failure to detect regulatory fraud, and it's purely up to VAG and the authorities to sort it out, not the owners who purchased in good faith. Few people would know this, but VW pulled TDI diesels out of the California market, once in the late '90s and again about 2004 because they could not meet their corporate emissions, so they are not scared of sacrificing sales to do things right.
1
I half agree with you. I own a Jetta affected by this scandal, and I do not consider myself indignant. I understand that my car is of course cleaner than the 18-wheeler diesels, but we were made to believe that these would be as clean as the competitors at a cheaper cost. Shame on us for trying to save a buck and not look into the ramifications of that. I feel partially to blame for not researching my car further. How could I know, though? I'm just a small-town, Louisiana bumpkin. I can change a tire, oil, and fill the wiper fluid. Other than that...I trusted VW to provide me with an honest, durable vehicle. I believe that jail time is a little harsh for those involved. That is more of a moral issue than a legal one. I do, however, feel I am owed something since my car is now worth nothing. What will happen if someone smashes into my Jetta? Will I get nothing back for it for being trusting of the people who should have known better?
Wrong. They are not scared to sacrifice air quality and company integrity for profits.
1
It took a while, but Volkswagen has announced that they will correct the cheat code.
It guarantees that neither the performance nor the fuel consumption will be negatively affected.
Can somebody -preferably of Volkswagen- please explain how to do this.
One of the most reasonable suggestions that I have read is that Volkswagen should buy the NOx credit on the world market to offset the negative impact of their fraud.
On the other hand, I do not understand why other car manufacturers have not started a class action against Volkswagen. One can imagine that they have lost out on sales by the dishonest claims of Volkswagen to be superior to other car producers.
It guarantees that neither the performance nor the fuel consumption will be negatively affected.
Can somebody -preferably of Volkswagen- please explain how to do this.
One of the most reasonable suggestions that I have read is that Volkswagen should buy the NOx credit on the world market to offset the negative impact of their fraud.
On the other hand, I do not understand why other car manufacturers have not started a class action against Volkswagen. One can imagine that they have lost out on sales by the dishonest claims of Volkswagen to be superior to other car producers.
This company lacks organizational integrity. Period. Someone needs to go to jail. I will never purchase a Volkswagen.
2
I agree. However, I do own a VW, a classic Volkswagen Vanagon GL Campmobile (for the uninitiated, a VW camper "Bus").
Gee, nearly 80 years later and this is what the planet Earth gets from the National Socialist's favorite auto company . . . .
Accountability is all in cases like this. Trials & prison time for the decision makers.
The even larger question is whether VW's competitors engage in similar deceptive practices to end run vital air quality standards and sustainability practices ?
Accountability is all in cases like this. Trials & prison time for the decision makers.
The even larger question is whether VW's competitors engage in similar deceptive practices to end run vital air quality standards and sustainability practices ?
3
What's not mentioned is that diesel engines have serious intrinsic shortcomings when used on passenger cars. They operate very poorly in terms of efficiency and pollution until they reach the designed operating temperature, which is a bit of a disaster in view of the stop and go driving that the average American automobile is used for. Ever notice that at highway truck stops, the diesel engines of over the road freight carriers are allowed to idle and never shut off? It's because they operate as dogs until heated up and, additionally, diesel engines are hard to start in cold weather. Secondly, diesel engines only operate efficiently within a narrow range of RPM's. That's fine for machinery such as generators, and over-the-road trucks have an enormous number of gear ranges, but those means aren't a satisfactory answer for passenger automobiles.
Passanger car diesels make economic sense in Europe because of the high cost of fuel caused by sky-high taxes. Not so in the US.
Passanger car diesels make economic sense in Europe because of the high cost of fuel caused by sky-high taxes. Not so in the US.
3
You sound like you know a lot about Diesel engines. What RPMs do you recommend? I have a Jetta Manual Shift affected by this scandal. Where should I keep my RPMs to help it run better?
I smell jail and substantial fines for a lot of people. And if we do not see that come to fruition then cheating and corruption are much deeper than I could ever imagine.
As for VW, the company, a lot of people had no idea of the fraud and cheating going on so while I support not causing the VW business to close, I do support never buying a product associated with VW.
As for VW, the company, a lot of people had no idea of the fraud and cheating going on so while I support not causing the VW business to close, I do support never buying a product associated with VW.
4
How's about VW change their "culture" to one that doesn't
lie and cheat and steal?
lie and cheat and steal?
4
The U.S government should prosecute the VW and collect enough money to compensate the loss suffered by the customers. VW should not go free with a slap on the wrist.
6
I only wish GM, getting away with 112 murders, could have gotten so much press attention. Paying their way out with taxpayer money to boot.
10
The US's stringent diesel emissions laws are just further proof why the EPA should be abolished. How can an agency be so incompetent that a company can bypass a regulation for 10 years? It is time we give our bloated government agencies a second look.
1
That's the lesson you take from this? Let the dogs run free?
1
I was just posting a controversial post just to see what the reactions would be. But, yes I agree with you. We need more stringent regulations, especially in the EPA and FDA. This VW incident further shows why the "free market' will never solve such market externalities.
1
Love this phrase. "Mr. Müller and Mr. Pötsch conceded that the deception reflected organizational shortcomings." Reminds me of quote attributed to the thief Willie Sutton when asked why rob banks? Sutton said, "Because that's where the money is." But no, it was the result of Willie's "organizational shortcomings".
3
"the deception reflected organizational shortcomings."
I guess the same could be said of Enron, Bernie Madoff and the Nixon White House. That statement doesn't make me feel better.
I guess the same could be said of Enron, Bernie Madoff and the Nixon White House. That statement doesn't make me feel better.
4
Ludicrous. Responsibility lies at the very top. Either they knew what was going on or pushed for emission/performance numbers without questioning the results.
7
Crimes and arrogance not chain of errors. They believed the stupid Americans would never catch them. But we did.
3
Scummy business practices for profit.
Nitrogen oxide kills people...slowly and painfully.
I'll go way out of my way to steer clear of the VW companies in the future.
May the people who made the criminal decisions pay for this themselves, rather than profiting from it. The humans, the individuals: money, jail time. For these kind of people, that would be disincentive. Making the company pay won't even take the profit out of their immoral clutches.
Nitrogen oxide kills people...slowly and painfully.
I'll go way out of my way to steer clear of the VW companies in the future.
May the people who made the criminal decisions pay for this themselves, rather than profiting from it. The humans, the individuals: money, jail time. For these kind of people, that would be disincentive. Making the company pay won't even take the profit out of their immoral clutches.
5
As bad as this particular situation is, the sad and obvious truth is the fabric of our society as a whole is in tatters. Corruption, scandal, greed, from small scale to large, are unsheathed every day. It's become the norm. Our world has plummeted to the depths. How can one not be cynical these days?
4
The leaders of Volkswagen were no doubt first in line for the bonus distributions and no doubt informed everyone of their management skills in running the company. However, their touted management skills and bonus qualifications have now been revealed to be somewhat of a hoax as they tell us how they are seeking to find out details of the apparent emissions fraud that was carried on under their noses. Our prisons are filled to overflowing with heinous criminals who were picked up with small quantities of marijuana, and who apparently lacked the type of management skills that the VW management thought it possessed to game the pollution world. When are we going to apply the same criminal standards to deadly corporate polluters as we rigorously apply to the lowly owners of a little bag of the hemp?
5
Fraud is a felony. The executives in charge belong in prison for a long time for committing such widespread fraud over such a long period.
5
Yeah, “there was a tolerance for breaking the rules.” I can't count how many times I've heard that said about big American corporations. They routinely break the rules with impunity and when caught are only assessed a small fine which they right off as a cost of doing business.
7
Really nothing being reported that we didn't already know.
2
As an owner of a VW Jetta Diesel, I feel embarrassed and cheated. I've not responded to their offer of a $500 debit card and I have no intention of doing so. What I want from them is a 100% credit of the vehicle at the price I paid for it to be credited against a new auto from them. That's the only way they can make this right by me - take the cheating car back, and give me a new one that doesn't cheat. Short of that, I'll never buy another thing from them as long as I live.
7
I object to the reporter's description of "employees" as the source of this disgracefully fraudulent, illegal and lying behavior.
The source of these deceptions was, yes, employees, but they were upper management and top executives, not some schlep with with a nerd-pack plastic container for pens in his/her breast pocket.
The reporter, in dancing around the question of who actually made these decisions, deflects the accusing finger from VW's top management by the use of the word "employees."
Disgraceful in its own right.
The source of these deceptions was, yes, employees, but they were upper management and top executives, not some schlep with with a nerd-pack plastic container for pens in his/her breast pocket.
The reporter, in dancing around the question of who actually made these decisions, deflects the accusing finger from VW's top management by the use of the word "employees."
Disgraceful in its own right.
3
I own 3 VAG vehicles. One is a 2009 Jetta TDI, a real problem. The other 2 are newer Audis with gas engines. The older Audi only has 34K miles, yet required a water pump replacement, 2 months short of going out of warranty. How can I trust these guys? Not just the cheating but it looks like their reliability is very poor. I'm concerned about ownership costs going forward. I'm really concerned that I'm going to get shafted when it comes to the TDI. Don't get me wrong they make nice cars with really good driving dynamics, but over the next 10 years I'm going to replace them with something more reliable. I hope that company rots in the nether regions.
3
The ability and willingness to describe intentional violation of government regulations as a chain of errors...these guys are operating in an alternative reality. We have seen this type of lying before, beginning in 1933 or so, I am sorry to say.
5
VW-Audi, can anyone trust anything these people say ? I don't see how. LET The BUYER BEWARE !
1
German Engineering:
The secret power of cheating.
The secret power of cheating.
5
what a few million women w/cervical cancer? As long as your wife is tucked away in some Swiss Mountain w/your own Uranium-Free well, f#ck the rest of the panet
VW is still clueless.
Got an e-mail from VW ( I own a Golf with a gas engine) and here is the current deal if you buy one of their cars:
VW Owners get $1,000 "loyalty" bonus
Non VW Owners get a $1500 bonus
Talk about sticking it in the eye of your customers.
VW is going to need every one of it's current customers to keep the lights on until the public trusts VW again. It is obvious VW of America does not get it.
My current VW is just about to go over 80k miles and I will be shopping soon. VW had better give me a better reason than this to trust them as I imagine this scandal will drive down the resale value of all VW models- not just the TDI versions.
Got an e-mail from VW ( I own a Golf with a gas engine) and here is the current deal if you buy one of their cars:
VW Owners get $1,000 "loyalty" bonus
Non VW Owners get a $1500 bonus
Talk about sticking it in the eye of your customers.
VW is going to need every one of it's current customers to keep the lights on until the public trusts VW again. It is obvious VW of America does not get it.
My current VW is just about to go over 80k miles and I will be shopping soon. VW had better give me a better reason than this to trust them as I imagine this scandal will drive down the resale value of all VW models- not just the TDI versions.
6
Late nominee for ecological moronic comment of the year: “It’s a small chemical factory,” Thomas Schlick, a partner at the German management consultancy Roland Berger who specializes in the automotive industry, said of S.C.R. systems. “It’s an additional system with no value for the customer.”
No value? Helping to keep pollutants from our air has no value for the human being who drives the car? Mr. Schlick is a mouthpiece of the most odious kind.
No value? Helping to keep pollutants from our air has no value for the human being who drives the car? Mr. Schlick is a mouthpiece of the most odious kind.
6
Don't just blame German employees. Globally, culpability runs deep. Why? Because the people working for VW and their suppliers are smart. They excel at ferreting out every weakness in competitive products, using them to their advantage in product development, sales brochures, and advertising.
Here, Volkswagen of America's marketing, advertising, product, parts and service executives, and service technicians are among the best in their respective fields. What’s more, VW’s advertising & promotion agencies are second to none and "joined-at-the-hip" with VOA. All know how to “field strip” VW and competitive cars.
This "cheating" did not go unnoticed from the getgo - at any level. It’s as much a breakdown in integrity here in the US and other regions, as in Germany.
For us, the real question is, what happened to the US team’s integrity? Traded for a paycheck? Overcome by fear? Failure of parents & educators to teach ethical behavior at every point from Kindergarten to B, law, trade, or engineering school?
The FTC & DOJ are too busy. All-too-many products are manufactured or imported where teams that QC, market, and develop creative work choose to ignore or hide product faults. Then they lie to consumers in promotion.
Soon, it won't matter where ad dollars are shifted. On smartphones, TV, radio, billboards, in print, on websites, or in planted “reviews”, consumers won't believe a word of what any company has to say.
Maybe, they don’t now.
Here, Volkswagen of America's marketing, advertising, product, parts and service executives, and service technicians are among the best in their respective fields. What’s more, VW’s advertising & promotion agencies are second to none and "joined-at-the-hip" with VOA. All know how to “field strip” VW and competitive cars.
This "cheating" did not go unnoticed from the getgo - at any level. It’s as much a breakdown in integrity here in the US and other regions, as in Germany.
For us, the real question is, what happened to the US team’s integrity? Traded for a paycheck? Overcome by fear? Failure of parents & educators to teach ethical behavior at every point from Kindergarten to B, law, trade, or engineering school?
The FTC & DOJ are too busy. All-too-many products are manufactured or imported where teams that QC, market, and develop creative work choose to ignore or hide product faults. Then they lie to consumers in promotion.
Soon, it won't matter where ad dollars are shifted. On smartphones, TV, radio, billboards, in print, on websites, or in planted “reviews”, consumers won't believe a word of what any company has to say.
Maybe, they don’t now.
I love the all too common scapegoat approach... 10 years of lying and cheating and of course only 9 low level employees were involved. Have you noticed that all big companies always claim no one in the executive branch knew anything! There is a real need for this type of greed and irresponsible behavior to be punished whether it is VW, big banks or other big companies. But who will do it? Obama, Clinton, Bush ? No way! The next election is our chance to make things change, and only one man is up for the job! Go Bernie.
9
Nearly all businesses reverse engineer their competitors' products -- to remain competitive one must learn.
I find it incomprehensible that the other major auto makers had not discovered how Volkswagen was able to work its magic. Which is more likely inside the entire industry: A conspiracy of ignorance or a conspiracy of silence?
I find it incomprehensible that the other major auto makers had not discovered how Volkswagen was able to work its magic. Which is more likely inside the entire industry: A conspiracy of ignorance or a conspiracy of silence?
24
"Watertight"!!! Watertight for whom! Will the leadership not take personal responsibility for the organization's disfunction without blaming individuals down the totem pole!
3
Getting us back for those billions in collateralized derivatives we sold them a few years back.
1
This whole emission thing with VW is "Exhausting"
5
Dismantle the company and arrest the executives. Period.
It's beginning to look like a faceless and nameless group of engineers did it, why else would VW talk about "errors" and "mistakes" having been made without the headquarters being in the loop.
The bosses thought they can get away with it worldwide, because they can get away with it in the EU. I'm glad they got caught.
The bosses thought they can get away with it worldwide, because they can get away with it in the EU. I'm glad they got caught.
If they cheated with my car (Passat tdi), why do they keep selling me AdBlue? I really wonder what they do with my car when it goes in for scheduled service.
Have you checked your VIN number using VW's database tool? Perhaps your car is not affected.
1
As an owner of a 2012 TDI, what would make me "happy" (to the extent that that is possible in this scenario) would be for VW to pay me blue book value (pre-scandal, of course) for my car. We'd all like full purchase price, but I believe that's unrealistic. I'm hoping someone at VW considers this possibility.
6
Just a point of clarification. The failure to meet NOx standards has little to do with global climate change. NOx is not a global warming gas that causes the atmosphere to retain heat.
NOx is, however, related to localized smog and acid rain.
NOx is, however, related to localized smog and acid rain.
1
This clarification is a bit misleading. One of the oxides of nitrogen produced when the defeat device is enabled is nitrous oxide (N2O). Nitrous oxide is a surprisingly powerful greenhouse gas.
"But the company said it could not disclose any names until the evidence was “watertight.”"
Any way you slice it, the management at VW is responsible. This business of the people in charge claiming they didn't know is ridiculous. If they didn't know, then they should have to pay back all of their salaries as they clearly were not managing.
Any way you slice it, the management at VW is responsible. This business of the people in charge claiming they didn't know is ridiculous. If they didn't know, then they should have to pay back all of their salaries as they clearly were not managing.
2
They spent 10 years figuring out how to cheat? Why didn't they spend those 10 years innovating? Volkswagen's days are over. I hope they will never be able to bounce back from this mess. That is a punishment fitting of the crime.
9
But still, the Company didn't do anything that was wrong, just some of the employees of the Company. . . . so VW as a company is sterling.
I suppose is companies here in America can get individual persons' First Amendment rights, stretching that same twisted logic over onto VW makes about as much sense as everything else. The only problem is that REAL people aren't as stupid as Corporate PEOPLE would like to think they are. The same goes for SCOTUS.
I suppose is companies here in America can get individual persons' First Amendment rights, stretching that same twisted logic over onto VW makes about as much sense as everything else. The only problem is that REAL people aren't as stupid as Corporate PEOPLE would like to think they are. The same goes for SCOTUS.
1
VW should be banned from selling cars in the US for the same period that they cheated on emissions, 10 years. This should be a deterrent for other companies to cheer as well.
4
How about VW buys back all the toxic vehicles at original MSRP, fixes their "chain of errors," and then see how much they can sell their detox cars for? The financial repercussions of this mistake must lie squarely and entirely on VW.
9
"There was a tolerance for breaking the rules". That is the problem with most big companies. They will cheat and lie their way to the top. The government is supposed to regulate people like that, but they don't because they take the bribe and the pay-off to let these criminals keep operating.
The Mafia were just imitating these kinds of systems....
The Mafia were just imitating these kinds of systems....
3
I'm disturbed that they say they made errors. Since when is "crime", "lie" or "cover up" synonymous with "error"?
7
its pr newspeak doublespeak
wo shifting meanings, what would become of th advertising business
wo shifting meanings, what would become of th advertising business
2
During WW2 my mother was a slave laborer at a Volkswagen plant. She made me promise to never drive a VW vehicle. Now I have another reason.
Personally, if VW went out of business, I'd smile.
Personally, if VW went out of business, I'd smile.
11
You might want to include Audi, Porsche, Bentley, Bugatti, Ducati, Lamborghini, Scania Trucks and MAN trucks. VW owns a lot of brands.
http://www.volkswagenag.com/content/vwcorp/content/en/brands_and_product...
http://www.volkswagenag.com/content/vwcorp/content/en/brands_and_product...
I understand your mother's position. But if you limited your car choices to those who did not behave reprehensibly during WWII, you'd have to ride a bike.
3
Ford made B-24s, Tanks, Tank Destroyers, Aircraft Engines, Jeeps, Boats, and any number of other things for the US war effort.
http://usautoindustryworldwartwo.com/ford.htm
http://usautoindustryworldwartwo.com/ford.htm
1
Try to think of a worldwide company that admits it has cheated its customers and industry regulators for more than ten years, yet survives the ensuing legal and financial storm after that pronouncement. Who would trust them enough to buy one of their products in the future? Goodbye, VW.
3
VW- Whoops, we accidentally, on-purpose, created a cheating program for pollution tests so that we could make more money. Boy are we sorry we got caught.
6
Nine people are suspended for cheating, I mean "errors". I feel a lot better now.
2
In my view, Volkswagen should be hung out to dry. They deliberately misled consumers about their products and deliberately (with malice aforethought) conspired to defraud the US government and its environmental regulations. VW should be forced to refund the purchase price for every one of these vehicles sold and should be assessed the maximum penalty allowable under US law. If the company goes under, it is their own fault. Despicable corporate behavior.
2
I bought a great bumper sticker to voice my frustration with VW. Go to www.fraudvergnugen.com . They are donating a percentage of the proceeds to an organization 350.org which is working to promote a safe climate and better future. VW should be ashamed of themselves, but I am certain they're not. Makes you wonder ( or not) how many greedy companies all over the world are plundering the earths resources so the CEO's can line their pockets.
1
Euphemisms a'plenty with a large dose of mistakes happen and the joys of self-regulation. Recommendations:
1. Fund the EPA and all other regulatory agencies so they can regulate.
2. the concept of self-regulate is GOP nonsense
3. Mandate that incorporation language in all 50 states have standards that allow criminal behavior to be prosecuted.
1. Fund the EPA and all other regulatory agencies so they can regulate.
2. the concept of self-regulate is GOP nonsense
3. Mandate that incorporation language in all 50 states have standards that allow criminal behavior to be prosecuted.
4
Very definitively that would help the situation. Unfortunately, our elected officials are mostly bought and paid for by those same corporations.
2
We bought the 2010 Audi A3 TDI because it was "Green Car of the Year"-- I kid you not. We even got a federal tax credit for it. Shame on VW.
13
You do all realize that Pötsch was speaking in German and used the word 'Fehler" and 'Fehlerkette' The words would be better translated as mistakes and chain of mistakes . Further, a reading of the original German new reports suggests he was referring to the failure to catch the wrongdoing (it's sort of ambiguous and I could not find a transcript). So before you let your pre-conceived notions of the big bad corporation take over your thought process and start interpreting the meaning in his words, please make sure you have an accurate translation.
5
VW's actions represent willful fraud, they were neither "mistakes" nor "errors".
4
I think I've heard that phrase before: "mistakes were made".
1
Do NY Times readers actually read articles before they comment?
I too am disgusted although not surprised that VW behaves like every other corporation. Obviously the lesson is that government regulation is a good thing and we need more not less. Despite what all Republicans and many Democrats say.
However:
The 2014 TDI that I own is equipped with a urea tank. All that will be required to bring this car into compliance with EPA smog rules is a software fix which will not change the performance or mileage characteristics, simply cost me more for "adblue", the trade name for urea. It will become the "clean diesel" that I bought. Meanwhile my car still produces far less CO2 (global warming folks!) than 95% of the vehicles on the road.
Aparently the idiots at VW figured they had gotten away with cheating for so long that buyers would be concerned about a few extra dollars for this simple addivitve! VW will have to add this hardware to all their vehicles or buy them back. They deserve every fine and loss of customers that results.
Finally read what Warren says: "And as far as real impact, do you have any idea on how much more pollution is legally produced both relatively and absolutely under laxer standards by the millions of trucks that deliver your organic kale and Amazon Prime shipments?"
I too am disgusted although not surprised that VW behaves like every other corporation. Obviously the lesson is that government regulation is a good thing and we need more not less. Despite what all Republicans and many Democrats say.
However:
The 2014 TDI that I own is equipped with a urea tank. All that will be required to bring this car into compliance with EPA smog rules is a software fix which will not change the performance or mileage characteristics, simply cost me more for "adblue", the trade name for urea. It will become the "clean diesel" that I bought. Meanwhile my car still produces far less CO2 (global warming folks!) than 95% of the vehicles on the road.
Aparently the idiots at VW figured they had gotten away with cheating for so long that buyers would be concerned about a few extra dollars for this simple addivitve! VW will have to add this hardware to all their vehicles or buy them back. They deserve every fine and loss of customers that results.
Finally read what Warren says: "And as far as real impact, do you have any idea on how much more pollution is legally produced both relatively and absolutely under laxer standards by the millions of trucks that deliver your organic kale and Amazon Prime shipments?"
8
I have a 2012 TDI without the magic urea tank. How easy do you think it will be to "add this hardware"? I'd prefer the latter that VW repurchase it back. And don't get me started on the $3,000 repair for the failed High Pressure Fuel Pump issues these cars also have.
http://jalopnik.com/5968228/are-fuel-pump-failures-sidelining-volkswagen...
http://jalopnik.com/5968228/are-fuel-pump-failures-sidelining-volkswagen...
Diesels put out more CO2/gallon consumed than gas cars, 22.38 lbs/gallon vs 19.64 so your 2014 TDI with a combined EPA mileage of 34 MPG diesel is equivalent to a gas car that gets (19.64/22.38)*34 = 29.8. I suspect 29.8 is still better than 95% of the cars out there but it can't hold a candle to a Prius or a Volt .
1
Imagine this kind of corporate malfeasance but with GMOs instead of automobiles. This is why it's not anti-science or anti-innovation to be wary of Monsanto and demand labeling. It's hard enough to recall cars that are clearly labeled "Volkswagen." Now imagine trying to do a similar recall with unlabeled GMOs.
11
"Mr. Pötsch said it was “the biggest test” in Volkswagen’s history."
Bigger than WWII Mr. Putsch?
Bigger than WWII Mr. Putsch?
5
Let's see:
1. VW corporate strategy to introduce diesels into the US market in 2005 coupled with knowledge that their technology precluded meeting emission standards.
2. Creation and incorporation of the technological "fix" to cheat the regulators and lie to all VW diesel customers regarding emissions, performance, and fuel consumption for years.
3. Deliberate VW lies to US regulators when questioned about testing discrepancies and failures.
4. Now we get the "few bad apples" defense. And no one with executive responsibility was (or is) responsible.
This is criminal corporate behavior. And we need appropriate punishments.
Beyond promises and fines.
1. VW corporate strategy to introduce diesels into the US market in 2005 coupled with knowledge that their technology precluded meeting emission standards.
2. Creation and incorporation of the technological "fix" to cheat the regulators and lie to all VW diesel customers regarding emissions, performance, and fuel consumption for years.
3. Deliberate VW lies to US regulators when questioned about testing discrepancies and failures.
4. Now we get the "few bad apples" defense. And no one with executive responsibility was (or is) responsible.
This is criminal corporate behavior. And we need appropriate punishments.
Beyond promises and fines.
17
New science makes possible engines that will run 24/7 on atmospheric heat instead of fuel. This is a huge untapped solar energy resource, larger than all the energy potential from fossil fuels. A Ford engine was converted to prove the concept.
AESOP is converting Briggs & Stratton and Mitsubishi V6 engines to demonstrate fuel-free operation. Both will run 24/7 and can spin generators. They make possible future hybrid-electric cars that need no fuel and no external recharge.
Fuel-free engines can be produced by existing engine manufacturers, fast! The next generation can be made on tabletops - with 3-D printing. See aesopinstitute.org
The science involved is hard to believe. Trolls publish rants containing lies and distortions, accusing AESOP of fraud and dishonesty. A running converted engine, validated by a university laboratory, will have much more impact than words.
Engines that require fuel may soon begin to slowly seem archaic. Future hybrid-electric cars, trucks and buses may sell power to utilities when suitably parked. They can also power homes and every variety of buildings. Perhaps, in the future, vehicles will be viewed as investments that pay for themselves. Imagine the economic impact!
Mass producing such technologies fast enough to keep the planet livable is the challenge.
AESOP is converting Briggs & Stratton and Mitsubishi V6 engines to demonstrate fuel-free operation. Both will run 24/7 and can spin generators. They make possible future hybrid-electric cars that need no fuel and no external recharge.
Fuel-free engines can be produced by existing engine manufacturers, fast! The next generation can be made on tabletops - with 3-D printing. See aesopinstitute.org
The science involved is hard to believe. Trolls publish rants containing lies and distortions, accusing AESOP of fraud and dishonesty. A running converted engine, validated by a university laboratory, will have much more impact than words.
Engines that require fuel may soon begin to slowly seem archaic. Future hybrid-electric cars, trucks and buses may sell power to utilities when suitably parked. They can also power homes and every variety of buildings. Perhaps, in the future, vehicles will be viewed as investments that pay for themselves. Imagine the economic impact!
Mass producing such technologies fast enough to keep the planet livable is the challenge.
3
Oh, how I needed a good laugh today.
1
Skepticism is anticipated. SECOND LAW SURPRISES under MORE at aesopinstitute.org contains information that helps open minded individuals pay attention to extremely important new science.
A running engine needing no fuel, certified by a qualified university laboratory, might conceivably create a perpetual commotion.
A running engine needing no fuel, certified by a qualified university laboratory, might conceivably create a perpetual commotion.
Fable-ous, AESOP!
Error? VW executives should lend this defense to other fraudulent companies. Bernie Madoff, for example, made some errors that resulted in customer money vanishing. Wow, VW should have the book thrown at them in criminal and civil court.
2
Until the government bans the sale of the big SUVs and pickup trucks for non business use the hype about Volkswagen's crime is all smokeandmirrors. Those other vehicles cause much more damage to the environment and they are a much bigger threat for pedestrians, especially children, and cyclers.
12
So, despite their mea culpa that "we'll find out what went wrong with management", VW is presenting their decades long corporate criminal activity as a "series of errors"???? That takes a stunning amount of nerve.
3
Given that a small fraction of corporate cheating is caught, we are sitting on many many similar scandals which will likely never get discovered. Falling budgets for enforcement because of a major political parties allergy to regulation makes it worse.
What will make other cheaters take notice? Fines to VW and refunds to consumers are justified but that will not change behavior. Even if VW went bankrupt, most employees will find other jobs. So what will make current cheaters take notice? Only if there are personal consequences for the executives involved including prison terms.
What will make other cheaters take notice? Fines to VW and refunds to consumers are justified but that will not change behavior. Even if VW went bankrupt, most employees will find other jobs. So what will make current cheaters take notice? Only if there are personal consequences for the executives involved including prison terms.
4
"“It proves not to have been a one-time error, but rather a chain of errors that were allowed to happen,”"
More like a cascading chain of criminal misconduct at the highest levels.
Given that the SCOTUS has determined that corporations are 'people' I hope the entity known as Volkswagen gets the equivalent of hard time once the matter shakes out in the court.
38
"began in 2005 with a decision to heavily promote diesel engines in the United States and a realization that those engines could not meet clean air standards. Implicit in this statement seems to be the potential that these vehicles may never be able to made be compliant with clean air standards. Ultimately, VW may need to buy these vehicles back and take them out of operation completely.
4
Why does the author call it an error? It was a blatant violation of the law, some one has to pay for that. We bought a TDI, we were cheated out of our money, it was not an error. It was per-meditated, and planned.
MJJ
MJJ
6
All indications so far is that this was a small bunch of mid-level engineers/managers who had a choice of reporting that they could not deliver a new engine as promised and ruin their careers or fudging it and possibly getting caught and ruining their careers. Everyone needs to get over their 'conspiracy at the highest levels' conclusions and your desire to go off on the big bad corporation - one person to the point he "seriously" asks why VW is still allowed to sell cars in the U.S. I'm a liberal, but after reading these idiotic comments, I have to admit the right has a point. Get some perspective and let's get the true story. And as far as real impact, do you have any idea on how much more pollution is legally produced both relatively and absolutely under laxer standards by the millions of trucks that deliver your organic kale and Amazon Prime shipments?
5
There was never any such thing as Clean Diesel. That should have been a tip-off right there.
7
"Clean Coal" neither.
7
Didn't ambition get the angels thrown out of heaven?
2
Yes, joem, although that was more Milton's version of the events than the Bible's.
1
Yes, but ambition makes the world go around. Steve Jobs had good ambition, Madoff and Volkswagen bad.
Just yesterday I got an email from my local VW dealer about the "VW Goodwill Program," meant to assuage the anger of people like me who bought a "clean diesel" TDI in 2009 only to learn six years later that we'd unwitting accomplices in a widespread ruse meant to trick the EPA (and pollute the air). The program consists of a $500 Visa card to spend on whatever, plus a $500 VW credit card toward any VW product or service. That's it.
Pathetic.
Pathetic.
11
Their premeditated crime is an "error". The personnel involved are labeled "employees" so we can't tell if they include Executive's'. These "employee's are "suspended" rather than terminated. They will not name the criminals until the evidence is "watertight". Well this is all just another attempt by VW to fool the people and government. They won't call it what it is, a crime. They are still paying the employees so they won't talk. I doubt very strongly if the evidence is ever watertight. They are stretching this out, hoping against hope people will forget about it. How anyone can buy a VW since this crime was exposed is beyond me.
8
Volkswagen's self-flagellation here is probably designed to get the anti-capitalist Left to like them again, much like President George W. Bush's extravagant social spending was probably expected to.
But in the age of politically tattooed media barons, this will never happen. They'll buzz-buzz among themselves to see what party leaders Debbie Wasserman Schultz and George Soros have to say, and will them refuse t say anything nice about VW.
I thought VW would get past this episode after a minor hiccup, but now that the company leadership appears this shaky, I definitely have my doubts.
But in the age of politically tattooed media barons, this will never happen. They'll buzz-buzz among themselves to see what party leaders Debbie Wasserman Schultz and George Soros have to say, and will them refuse t say anything nice about VW.
I thought VW would get past this episode after a minor hiccup, but now that the company leadership appears this shaky, I definitely have my doubts.
Few years ago, if you searched Google for "abortion" it responded, "Did you mean adoption"? People complained (rightly), and Google fixed it.
I guess if you search Google for "VW emissions error" it might return "Did you mean "VW emissions design" or "VW emissions fraud"?
I guess if you search Google for "VW emissions error" it might return "Did you mean "VW emissions design" or "VW emissions fraud"?
1
It was Amazon, not Google, whose search algorithm suggested "adoption" as a possible correction for "abortion." I'm also not entirely sure how this is relevant. Are you suggesting that Amazon did this intentionally and that it was not just algorithmic? And that Google is now in a conspiracy with VW? There's no evidence to that effect on either front.
Amazon's claims that it was just a product of their algorithm and not an intentional manipulation are wholly plausible. "Adoption" has a Levenshtein distance of two (that's low), it has a high search correlation, and there are five times more books on adoption than there are on abortion.
Amazon's claims that it was just a product of their algorithm and not an intentional manipulation are wholly plausible. "Adoption" has a Levenshtein distance of two (that's low), it has a high search correlation, and there are five times more books on adoption than there are on abortion.
VW diesel buyers - you have been cheated, lied to and then dismissed. You should at least investigate the possibility of a class action suit. If that is at all possible , I do not know, but if it is, you will be opening yourselves in addition to the above to the practices of predatory lawyers. My heart is with you, but my pocketbook is somewhere else.
4
there are already hundreds of lawsuits pending
1
I'm shocked, shocked! to find weak internal controls and ethical standards at a major business corporation. Everyone knows the norm is for the board of directors to value ethics over profits, and to ensure its lieutenants observe strict compliance with the law!
Oh Germany, Germany, when will you ever learn to follow the righteous behavior seen worldwide.
Oh Germany, Germany, when will you ever learn to follow the righteous behavior seen worldwide.
3
VW used a lot of words that you would scold a child with, cheat, break the rules, series of errors, lack of internal controls and oversight. What they are not saying is what it really is, a criminal scheme to defraud the public and damage the environment and people's health.
50
Having worked in a chain of command production environment, I will make this assertion in contrast to the weak "tolerance for breaking the rules" that VW is clinging to:
Management, up and down the chain of command, not only knew about the cheating but authorized it and may very well have insisted on it.
Technicians are paid to do what they are assigned. A technician would have gone to a manager and said "we can't get the emissions down enough", and that manager would have gone to his manager, likely a department head, and t old him the same thing. That manager would report to an officer of the company, who would tell him "do whatever you have to do. We must be able to sell these cars in the U.S." And back down the chain the order would go, to the technician who would be told "we need some work-arounds to get these past the emissions tests."
It would be completely understood what was going on.
The idea that technicians themselves would invent this scandal..let's just say that is the least likely scenario.
Management, up and down the chain of command, not only knew about the cheating but authorized it and may very well have insisted on it.
Technicians are paid to do what they are assigned. A technician would have gone to a manager and said "we can't get the emissions down enough", and that manager would have gone to his manager, likely a department head, and t old him the same thing. That manager would report to an officer of the company, who would tell him "do whatever you have to do. We must be able to sell these cars in the U.S." And back down the chain the order would go, to the technician who would be told "we need some work-arounds to get these past the emissions tests."
It would be completely understood what was going on.
The idea that technicians themselves would invent this scandal..let's just say that is the least likely scenario.
159
As a retired technician I can vouch for the above statement. Technical people
are always under strict management supervision. The idea that this whole thing
was the product of a few renegade engineers is absurd. Management always
is aware of what engineers are doing because they are the ones who
supervise them.
are always under strict management supervision. The idea that this whole thing
was the product of a few renegade engineers is absurd. Management always
is aware of what engineers are doing because they are the ones who
supervise them.
3
My impression is that the 9 people suspended so far by VW are indeed managers, and high-level ones at that, in the engine engineering department. Why do so many commenters keep referring to lower-level technicians?
Yup.
VW should be made to re-buy the vehicles in question for their original price minus depreciation and then be assessed triple punitive damages so that nothing of this sort ever happens again. Just think of the repercussions if the perception on the part of auto industry is that they got away with 'murder' just to be slapped on the wrist. If that threatens the corporate survival of the company, so much the better, as it will discourage copy-cats.
17
I disagree - the owners did not suffer - society suffered. The money from the penalties should go to invest in more green energy and to clean up the environment.
1
Owners will suffer in the resale value of their cars.
1
"a chain of errors that were allowed to happen"
- Hans-Dieter Pötsch, chairman of Volkswagen’s supervisory board
The following great Americans all used this passively tensed phrase when admitting white-collar crimes:
"mistakes were made"
May 1, 1973 - President Nixon's White House Press Secretary Ron Ziegler addressing the beginning of the admission of Nixon's Watergate crimes
January 27, 1987, U.S. President Ronald Reagan referencing the arms-for-hostages Iran-Contra crimes
April 2002, former U.S. Secretary of State Henry Kissinger commenting on an investigation of war crimes and crimes against humanity during Operation Condor
March 2009, Jamie Dimon, chief executive officer of JPMorgan Chase referring to controversial bonuses paid to executives of the company after it received taxpayer-funded support via the Troubled Asset Relief Program.
January 14, 2014, New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, during his State of the State address, referring to the George Washington Bridge lane closure scandal
May 12, 2015, Jeb Bush, when asked if he would have voted to authorize the Iraq War in 2002, simply demurred and said phrase "mistakes were made".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mistakes_were_made
When you've broken the law and committed serious felonies and/or crimes against humanity and you are clearly above the law of the land and decent society, always remember to say "mistakes were made" and to enjoy another glass of Dom Perignon.
Justice is for little people.
- Hans-Dieter Pötsch, chairman of Volkswagen’s supervisory board
The following great Americans all used this passively tensed phrase when admitting white-collar crimes:
"mistakes were made"
May 1, 1973 - President Nixon's White House Press Secretary Ron Ziegler addressing the beginning of the admission of Nixon's Watergate crimes
January 27, 1987, U.S. President Ronald Reagan referencing the arms-for-hostages Iran-Contra crimes
April 2002, former U.S. Secretary of State Henry Kissinger commenting on an investigation of war crimes and crimes against humanity during Operation Condor
March 2009, Jamie Dimon, chief executive officer of JPMorgan Chase referring to controversial bonuses paid to executives of the company after it received taxpayer-funded support via the Troubled Asset Relief Program.
January 14, 2014, New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, during his State of the State address, referring to the George Washington Bridge lane closure scandal
May 12, 2015, Jeb Bush, when asked if he would have voted to authorize the Iraq War in 2002, simply demurred and said phrase "mistakes were made".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mistakes_were_made
When you've broken the law and committed serious felonies and/or crimes against humanity and you are clearly above the law of the land and decent society, always remember to say "mistakes were made" and to enjoy another glass of Dom Perignon.
Justice is for little people.
110
Socrates: You forgot: "I never had sex with that woman".
No bias in you post.
No bias in you post.
Oh yes, that was the greatest lie of all!!!!!......Snark off
Desert Dweller: Consensual sex between consenting adults is not a felony or a crime, but thanks for the false right-wing equivalency.
2
I bought a brand-new Golf TDI about three weeks before this news originally broke. I bought the car in part because I had been under the impression, due to VW's lies and corruption, that their TDIs were better for the environment than regular gas vehicles. I'm stuck with this car, that for only weeks I'd been pleased to own, now ashamed with each drive of my smogmobile -- and they're most likely not even going to buy it back at original price. I've been cheated, along with SO many others, and what we get in recompense is about $1000 ($500 vw credit, $500 visa "gift" card) and a vehicle so devalued we each stand to lose thousands more than if we'd simply sold or traded-in before the emissions scandal broke.
This is inexcusable -- and will anyone even be sent to jail? If defrauding millions isn't enough for jail time, what about the sheer enormity of environmental damage perpetrated, over 10 years?
This is inexcusable -- and will anyone even be sent to jail? If defrauding millions isn't enough for jail time, what about the sheer enormity of environmental damage perpetrated, over 10 years?
158
Kristi,
Good news. Your car, like mine has a "urea tank" After reprogramming the software your car will meet smog rules and still be the fun to drive, get good mileage and a be righteous global warming fighter. Even in its current form you produce far less greenhouse gas than any of your friends who drive anything bigger than a Prius. All hybrids have a dirty secret by the way -- what do you do with the lead acid batteries when the car is junked?
Keep your car, a few years from now when gas is $5 a gallon your will be a happy camper.
Good news. Your car, like mine has a "urea tank" After reprogramming the software your car will meet smog rules and still be the fun to drive, get good mileage and a be righteous global warming fighter. Even in its current form you produce far less greenhouse gas than any of your friends who drive anything bigger than a Prius. All hybrids have a dirty secret by the way -- what do you do with the lead acid batteries when the car is junked?
Keep your car, a few years from now when gas is $5 a gallon your will be a happy camper.
2
Me too. I loved my car for about a month. Then the fahrfegnugen got up and went.
My car is fitted with the urea tank, and I hope that the fixes they devise aren't across the board, and differentiated for the cars that have urea tanks. My car goes like a bat, is a joy to drive on curvy Maine roads, and gets great mileage. I don't want it to be "detuned" because cars without the Ad Blue tank need detuning. I paid extra for this diesel car, and expect some compensation.
I have yet to receive my "gift" from VW.
My car is fitted with the urea tank, and I hope that the fixes they devise aren't across the board, and differentiated for the cars that have urea tanks. My car goes like a bat, is a joy to drive on curvy Maine roads, and gets great mileage. I don't want it to be "detuned" because cars without the Ad Blue tank need detuning. I paid extra for this diesel car, and expect some compensation.
I have yet to receive my "gift" from VW.
Too bad you (and vast numbers in the US and Europe) didn't look more carefully into why petrol powered hybrids like the Prius are so much better for air quality. Or even a PZEV petrol powered conventional car. I've been stunned why people kept thinking diesels were 'environmental' cars for years. The data about their emissions has been known for years.
The emissions requirements are on the edge of physics. They are already increasing CO2 emissions by reducing the efficiency of engines. The real solution is useful mass transit. Blaming VW is nice and good and very progressive, but it doesn't address the cause.
6
Actually, union-constructed mass transit costs more than simply buying each rider their own commuter car. I realize this isn't an apples-to-apples comparison, but until mass transit can be built with cheap labor, it is FAR from cost-effective.
1
John, what VW did was to enable us to continue to think we can keep pushing down emissions and also keep our individual automobiles that are fast and fun. If they'd been upfront, "here's a car with low emissions; you won't enjoy driving it but you get what you get," that might have moved us closer to fixing mass transit.
Lying just doesn't take you down a good path. Ever.
Lying just doesn't take you down a good path. Ever.
1
John, No one is blaming VW for the lack of mass transit. You seem to have trouble connecting 'A' to 'B' in what is a corporate criminal undertaking. (And, I would like you to post who 'they' are, who are reducing the efficiency of engines, and how they are doing it.)
Doesn't some US agency have the authority to order all of these cars off the road immediately and to order VW to correct their wanton fraud on customers by paying them the full original purchase price for their vehicle plus interest? If VW won't initiate this kind of fix (and they won't -- they're busy trying to buy off their customers with chits to buy more VW stuff), why doesn't/can't the US make it happen?
15
I don't think the US needs to order all of these cars off the road immediately. Are you thinking about large numbers of people who can suddenly no longer get to work, including people the rest of us seriously need to be at work, like teachers and nurses and doctors and emergency personnel? People who can suddenly no longer get to the grocery store or the doctor's office?
2
Yes, I did think about those people. The point of requiring VW to refund the purchase price (with interest) was to permit them to buy a replacement vehicle.
They can buy another car with their VW refund.
The Republican presidential candidates want to let corporations regulate themselves.
47
Well, to be fair, we've had a Democratic President for two terms, and the regulatory authorities are all under the Executive branch. Yet this still happened.
GMooG: "To be fair"??? How about "to be truthful"? Or, are you saying that President Obama has been completely inept for the past nine years?
Nine years? Are you counting his time as a Senator?
I would not buy a VW today, just as I would not purchase a GM product. Both got profit hungry in the 70's and produced automobiles that were flawed mechanically. I know, because I purchased both a '73 Nova and '76 VW bug. They were both full of defects and mechanical problems that their dealers would not fix under warranty. Now I drive a Subaru and an Infiniti. It's my third Subaru and second Infiniti. Both dealers and manufacturers are willing to live up to the promises of their warranties.
6
Paul: One man. Two cars. We are doomed.
1
Those readers who did not spend last winter in Paris, where VW diesels are a significant portion of all vehicles clogging the streets and the Periferique,cannot really grasp the importance of this crime. I remember one headline screaming (in translation) "Paris air dirtiest in World- Beats Beijing"
Thanks, VW, for those free weekends on the metro, RER, and buses. Thanks, VW, for the constant nasal congestion and cough. And how many actual deaths were caused by these "errors "?
Thanks, VW, for those free weekends on the metro, RER, and buses. Thanks, VW, for the constant nasal congestion and cough. And how many actual deaths were caused by these "errors "?
17
Blatant, outright fraud.
There should be an international court where a suit against this company could be litigated and they should be required to retrofit or replace the defective products they sold and are still selling with the liquidation of their company proceeds and clawing back the executive compensation and golden parachutes of their "decision makers".
There should be an international court where a suit against this company could be litigated and they should be required to retrofit or replace the defective products they sold and are still selling with the liquidation of their company proceeds and clawing back the executive compensation and golden parachutes of their "decision makers".
5
Alice: I agree. There should be a court set up somewhere - - maybe in Europe, or Africa or Asia or South America, where some person could travel to and hire a local law firm with no tie to the leaders of that country, to stamp out economic crimes. Sort of like FIFA's international standards committee.
This episode, still unfolding, shows how most large companies do business. In order to be competitive or to get a competitive advantage, rules are broken, crimes are committed and rationalizations are concocted. It happens everywhere and gets exposed only when the violation gets a bit too big to confine.
16
Although VW automobile pollution will kill more citizens, I don't hear anyone barring them from entering the country and sending the guilty to jail.
1
How anybody can read this as an article flattering VW is completely beyond me.
And while we're on the subject, no, there aren't laws on the books that stick you in jail for lying to the EPA. Unfortunately.
If you'd like the law to do that--or jail bankers, for that matter--might wanna show up and vote for people who aren't Republcans.
And while we're on the subject, no, there aren't laws on the books that stick you in jail for lying to the EPA. Unfortunately.
If you'd like the law to do that--or jail bankers, for that matter--might wanna show up and vote for people who aren't Republcans.
27
"Making false statements (18 U.S.C. § 1001) is the common name for the United States federal crime laid out in Section 1001 of Title 18 of the United States Code, which generally prohibits knowingly and willfully making false or fraudulent statements, or concealing information, in "any matter within the jurisdiction" of the federal government of the United States, even by mere denial."
Robert: Of course, no democrat has been seen in or around the White House in the past nine years.
VW is lucky that their lack of ethical standards only compromised emissions. What if it had been the steering linkage or some other component? VW....the new Pinto.
5
Serious question - why are VWs allowed to still sell their cars in America as I type this?
7
The Error or Chain of errors that they are speaking about here in my opinion is the fact that they ALLOWED this to happen in the first place. That was their error; not the fact that it was installed, that piece worked very well for many years but the error of allowing it to be installed in the first place. A lapse of oversight/judgement regarding ethical behavior that all large corporations should be following. What they did was unethical and they got caught. That was their error.
15
In order to clean up this fraud and criminal activity, the head of Porsche was promoted to head VW. But wait, while he was head of Porsche, the same institutionalized criminal activity was going on there too. Why aren't the top leadership of VW in jail, awaiting trial? I'll never trust nor buy a German car.
14
Jeff, please explain to me how any self respecting person could buy anything made in Germany even prior to this somewhat minor disclosure?
1
Reality: The decision to move on was made decades ago. Not to do so, was seen to be a dead end road to the same result as in WWI and WWII.
Regrettable yes, but the business of business is business, and I, for one, wouldn't want President Obama building my cars.
1
you didnt even get th quote right, clem
So you'd want Trump, Bush or Cruz to build your car? Please leave you political rubbish somewhere else.
5
I was quoting Stanton, Clem, not President Coolidge.
1
Maybe Volkswagen automobiles should be barred from the USA.
1
Maybe you should just walk or ride a bike more.
3
I bet I do more walking then you>
A loyal VW owner?
A loyal VW owner?
“It proves not to have been a one-time error, but rather a chain of errors that were allowed to happen,” Mr. Pötsch said.
Sorry, Mr. Potsch, but this was an intentional effort to cheat and steal. You stole money from millions of your customers (by selling them something worse less than you claimed) and health from hundreds of millions of Americans and Europeans.
The idea that just nine or so employees are responsible for this mess is laughable. We're talking about 500,000 cars in the U.S. and 11 MILLION in Europe. Cheating of this magnitude could only happen if the deception was far more widespread, and institutionally approved, within the company.
Shame on you, VW, for allowing this deception and criminal behavior over the past decade, and for trying to spin it now.
And shame on the NY Times for not calling out this nonsense for what it is.
Sorry, Mr. Potsch, but this was an intentional effort to cheat and steal. You stole money from millions of your customers (by selling them something worse less than you claimed) and health from hundreds of millions of Americans and Europeans.
The idea that just nine or so employees are responsible for this mess is laughable. We're talking about 500,000 cars in the U.S. and 11 MILLION in Europe. Cheating of this magnitude could only happen if the deception was far more widespread, and institutionally approved, within the company.
Shame on you, VW, for allowing this deception and criminal behavior over the past decade, and for trying to spin it now.
And shame on the NY Times for not calling out this nonsense for what it is.
94
And we are still holding on to see what happens as we hold our heads to the ground in shame and continue driving our VW which we bought after careful consideration because it was an 'environmentally friendly' vehicle.
44
You have no reason to be ashamed, you were duped. Now it's time to sue.
2
Yes. And I have a lease and am thinking of driving into my dealership and dropping off the keys and saying they have not just nullified the contract - they have violated it!!!
3
d: You should not 'hold your head to the ground'. You should drive it to display the immoral and criminal intent of VW. When others comment, you can describe how you were lied to and taken advantage of. That will be your contribution in this scandal.
"The company is likely to have to install new hardware in those vehicles, which include models such as the Jetta, Golf and Beetle sold before the 2015 model year."
So what years, precisely? Earlier 2009 and on had been reported, but if these 'errors' started happening (who knows how, goodness gracious) in 2005, are they sure of what model years carry these fluke events?
So what years, precisely? Earlier 2009 and on had been reported, but if these 'errors' started happening (who knows how, goodness gracious) in 2005, are they sure of what model years carry these fluke events?
I would guess it started with the 2009 model year. 2004-05 was the tail end of the Pumpe Deus direct injection engine with only the diesel Jetta being sold in 2006. 2007-08 VW sat out the diesel market in the US 'cause they couldn't meet the tightened NOx standards. And now we know what they did in 2009 to finally make the grade.
2
What is Obama doing about this? Isn't this part of the "climate change" agenda? Volkswagen's conduct should be criminal, but what is Obama doing about it?
4
Both the EPA and the FTC have active investigations, both of which could result in criminal charges in addition to MASSIVE fines. The Feds are doing plenty, but it will take time to build a case that can result in multi-billion dollar fines and jail time.
Additionally, several states like California are investigating environmental and consumer fraud violations.
Additionally, several states like California are investigating environmental and consumer fraud violations.
2
Obama had nothing to do with this.
8
Hey Tony. The United States Environmental Protection Agency is, in fact, an agency of the executive branch of the federal government, and, thus, President Obama, through the EPA, has been doing something about it. Do you not understand the structure of our federal government? See the first 2 lines of this NYT article that first revealed VW's cheating: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/19/business/volkswagen-is-ordered-to-reca...
"The Obama administration on Friday directed Volkswagen to recall nearly a half-million cars, saying the automaker illegally installed software in its diesel-power cars to evade standards for reducing smog.
The Environmental Protection Agency accused the German automaker of using software to detect when the car is undergoing its periodic state emissions testing."
"The Obama administration on Friday directed Volkswagen to recall nearly a half-million cars, saying the automaker illegally installed software in its diesel-power cars to evade standards for reducing smog.
The Environmental Protection Agency accused the German automaker of using software to detect when the car is undergoing its periodic state emissions testing."
8
High high up the chain of command did this go, and if it was not known at the very top, why not? (It probably was known at the very top, but the top is always protected.)
2
Can VW just shut up and attempt to fix their "errors" in silence. The brand is all but ruined, and their insincere explanations are not helpful in trying to restore it.
6
I wonder if as a lease holder of a diesel VW that is part of this mess, one can just drive the car back to the dealership. Drop the mic (keys) and simply say they have violated the contract?
32
Error?!!! I'm just...speechless. Do. Not. Buy. From. This. Company. This seems to be the only way to that "We The People" can get anything done anymore.
12
VW continues to lie, obfuscate, spin and cover up its criminal activities. Errors? Irregularities? No, these were crimes. And it is absurd for VW to claim only a handful of "rogue" engineers were responsible. This is systemic corporate corruption, and given the new CEO's history, nothing has changed at VW.
102
Sure, it might be. But, you can't really prosecute and imprison a corporate entity, can you? That's the whole point.
1
I didn't know Obama was in charge of filing criminal charges against auto makers. If so, that's news to me. I thought the Department of Justice and all the other enforcement agencies handled these matters.
1
You can try to put it out of business though.
An eye for an eye is a little harsh, but if 150 deaths can be attributed to the pollution being emitted by these cars over this period of time, do we need to put 150 VW executives to death?
I suppose we can figure out a monetary penalty instead, but it will have to be massive. I'd be willing to start with VW rebuying my toxic vehicle at its original sales price.
I suppose we can figure out a monetary penalty instead, but it will have to be massive. I'd be willing to start with VW rebuying my toxic vehicle at its original sales price.
15
"An eye for an eye is a little harsh, but if 150 deaths can be attributed to the pollution being emitted by these cars over this period of time, do we need to put 150 VW executives to death?"
Save that for the Marco Rubios of the world pulling the plug on health insurance for the poor.
Save that for the Marco Rubios of the world pulling the plug on health insurance for the poor.
3
amazingly successful piece of spin by VW for the NYTimes to be referring to this as a one-time "error" rather than as a "crime", "deception," or "incident" in the headline.
87
Fraud....pure and simple.... A criminal act.
9
Indeed!
4
Did you even read the headline? It says that this was NOT a one-time error.
"“It proves not to have been a one-time error, but rather a chain of errors that were allowed to happen,” Mr. Pötsch said."
Errors huh? Seems like they were deliberate actions but whatever.
Errors huh? Seems like they were deliberate actions but whatever.
20
I'm a retired Public Defender. Many of my clients committed a "chain of errors." Unlike the VW leadership, my clients went to prison. Money talks.
63
Meanwhile, at least 11 million of these vehicles are being driven around in abandon, spewing toxic junk of up to 10x - 40x allowed amounts of NOx.
Where the heck is the EPA?! The Congress!? The President?! Doesn't in occur to them that, annually, VW could be emitting as much as 110 million - 440 million cars on the road? Where's the outrage?
Where the heck is the EPA?! The Congress!? The President?! Doesn't in occur to them that, annually, VW could be emitting as much as 110 million - 440 million cars on the road? Where's the outrage?
31
But only 500k of those in the US.
I'm not challenging the validity of your outrage but your math is a bit off on how many cars VW has put on the road since this deception began. Since 2005, VW has sold fewer than 80 million vehicles. BTW, Toyota was, in 2014, the first automaker to post sales of 10 million in a single year; VW also met that goal later in the same year. VW will not meet that goal this year due to scandal repercussions. http://www.statista.com/statistics/272050/worldwide-vehicle-production-o...
Eh. Our entire environment is already horribly polluted. I need to drive to get to work.
So, if I intentionally poison the air it's an "error". What if I intentionally poison the food or drink product of my company? Whoops.
Meanwhile. I don't feel any of the vehicles involved should be licensed in the USA. Volkswagen can replace them
Meanwhile. I don't feel any of the vehicles involved should be licensed in the USA. Volkswagen can replace them
53
Poisoning your food or baby's formula is probably called "made in China". But perhaps I digress.
VW apparently has a different dictionary than I have, as their definition of "error" doesn't show up in mine.
43
So they didn't really intend to cheat, they just wanted to save owners and dealers the trouble of refilling the tank and minimize consumption of the chemical and just use it when it was really needed when tests were underway.
It's not cheating when you have the owners and dealers best interests at heart. Superb rationalization from the world's most rational country.
It's not cheating when you have the owners and dealers best interests at heart. Superb rationalization from the world's most rational country.
50
So the self-righteous, Greek bashing (southern Europe for that matter), and moral work-ethic superior Germans aren't? Say it ain't so, Joseph! I just love the God sent C.E.O.s! They are so superior and more better smarter than us. And honest as the day is long. We can truly bend low before them and learn from their wisdom!
17
It still doesn't explain how a correction of this issue will not make the cars more expensive. How much and who will pay. All so interesting that the USA had to point out this European corruption. So now Europe has a FIFAGate and a VWGate.
14
Jeepers.....I had to look up the definition of "error" after reading this article to make sure it didn't change. It didn't.
69
Please, world: Don't ever buy another VW product again.
32
Not as long as the current clowns are in charge!
1
I don't know... I've got my eye on a golf tdi. I'm waiting for VW to knock 50% of the price because of this scandal.
1
Never. VW needs to be put out of business. The Marketplace is a powerful entity. We need to recognize that power for change and use it. Next up: Monsanto.
1
TAKE BACK OUR COUNTRY
First off this is THE reason we must have strong government standards, oversight, staff, funding, and a mindset that we the consumers and future generations are protected from the most entrenched corporations.
Secondly, as a 30 year Audi/VW customer, I can tell you first hand that VW and it's subsidiaries are handling existing customer inquiries so POORLY. Now is the season for buying 40% of the entire year cars and when I called to ask about what they are doing for their customers as incentives to buy another Audi/VW, they have NO RESPONSE.
Lastly, why aren't the TV News leaders asking our Presidential candidates about THIS...we need to fund the Consumer Protection agency started by Senator Elizabeth Warren...that's right, we the people need to take back our country from the corporations and lobbyist!
First off this is THE reason we must have strong government standards, oversight, staff, funding, and a mindset that we the consumers and future generations are protected from the most entrenched corporations.
Secondly, as a 30 year Audi/VW customer, I can tell you first hand that VW and it's subsidiaries are handling existing customer inquiries so POORLY. Now is the season for buying 40% of the entire year cars and when I called to ask about what they are doing for their customers as incentives to buy another Audi/VW, they have NO RESPONSE.
Lastly, why aren't the TV News leaders asking our Presidential candidates about THIS...we need to fund the Consumer Protection agency started by Senator Elizabeth Warren...that's right, we the people need to take back our country from the corporations and lobbyist!
63
To your last point...they'd rather ask those people in power and running for President about shutting down fantasy sports where one bets their own hard earned money at their own volition with no harm to others. Something is fatally flawed in this country that the focus is on something as menial as that and not on an issue like this, or our archaic tax code
1
In the report VW officials continuously refer to "errors" or "chain of errors". It's a shallow attempt at obfuscation. These were not errors, they were decisions.
63
Actually, criminal acts.
6
Decisions to commit fraud.
3
I don't believe it's accurate to refer to designing and installing a sophisticated program that alters how the emission system operates to produce different results during testing than during normal operation an "error," or even "series of errors"
135
“It proves not to have been a one-time error, but rather a chain of errors that were allowed to happen,”
-Hans-Dieter Pötsch, Chairman of the Board, VW
"Error". It almost makes it sound like an accident. Convenient euphemism for "Premeditated criminal behavior".
-Hans-Dieter Pötsch, Chairman of the Board, VW
"Error". It almost makes it sound like an accident. Convenient euphemism for "Premeditated criminal behavior".
170
I agree. Additionally, I wish news organizations would stop using these canned quotes from speeches and press releases that are clearly designed to muddy the truth.
10
It's an "error" in that the organization was set up in such a way that something like this could happen. A series of organizational errors led to this happening. That's true.
Besides, you expected the company to say, "We committed premeditated criminal behavior?"
Besides, you expected the company to say, "We committed premeditated criminal behavior?"
2
Will a senior executive of any major corporation which has blatantly and purposefully violated the law ever be sent to prison? Ever?
97
Ah, check what happened to Enron's executive management post-scandal.
1
How about, "When will the *owners* of any major corporation which has blatantly and purposefully violated the law ever be sent to prison?" Wouldn't that be a hoot? But then, that's the whole point of the corporate entity, isn't it?
5
Let's hear the opinions of all candidates for president.
DEMAND THEY ANSWER.
DEMAND THEY ANSWER.
We should maintain perspective. VW has admitted its behavior, and is taking huge steps to rectify the problem. That's far more than most other companies are willing to do.