Cohen wants us to go to war in Syria and uses his talents to sell us on the idea. But his college aged children won't be doing the fighting and dying in his proposed crusade.
Calling ISIS the bastard child of Turkey and Saudi Arabia ignores how they were nurtured into existence by the US's last crusade in Iraq and by a half-century of cultivating Islamists as a counter-force against secular socialists, communists, and left-wing nationalists in the Arab world in our defense of the sacred principles of private property and corporate profitability. Remind us again, Roger, who has armed the medieval petro-Wahabbi regime known as the House of Saud since its ascent to power in the 1930s?
No US invasion will produce a better life or more benevolent regime for the people of Syria, because that will not be its real purpose. It's purpose will be to impose US domination on the region. And that is what is really at the heart of the failure of the US or it's Arab proxies to offer a compelling ideological alternative to ISIS that Cohen laments.
There is no question that the situation we have helped create is bleak. But it won't be solved by more of what caused it in the first place, Cohens ruminations on the motivations of ISIS fighters notwithstanding.
Calling ISIS the bastard child of Turkey and Saudi Arabia ignores how they were nurtured into existence by the US's last crusade in Iraq and by a half-century of cultivating Islamists as a counter-force against secular socialists, communists, and left-wing nationalists in the Arab world in our defense of the sacred principles of private property and corporate profitability. Remind us again, Roger, who has armed the medieval petro-Wahabbi regime known as the House of Saud since its ascent to power in the 1930s?
No US invasion will produce a better life or more benevolent regime for the people of Syria, because that will not be its real purpose. It's purpose will be to impose US domination on the region. And that is what is really at the heart of the failure of the US or it's Arab proxies to offer a compelling ideological alternative to ISIS that Cohen laments.
There is no question that the situation we have helped create is bleak. But it won't be solved by more of what caused it in the first place, Cohens ruminations on the motivations of ISIS fighters notwithstanding.
8
"Abaaoud’s younger brother, Younes, was 13 when he left Brussels for Syria. He will likely return. And this middle-class adolescent Islamist will not be bearing a bouquet."
How in the world do you know?
How in the world do you know?
5
We have to challenge their thought process as we did ours.
The 17/18th century period of European Enlightenment ushered in a challenge to Judeo-Christian meaning. Islam played no part. It lay dormant, encapsulated within a disintegrating Ottoman Empire. Today this encapsulation is the underlying reason for the wide differences between Islamic thought and modern post “Western Enlightenment” thought.
That historical fact explains today’s radical extremist Islamic reaction to (our) Judeo-Christian secular Post Enlightenment western world. Radical Islamic groups are revolting against it.
The present day Islamic response has come in a form that parallels other such forms of puritanical religious response from the past. The unequivocal pronouncement is always the same; we are the pure ones and you are not. Our inner conviction makes us superior to you. (Remnants of this appear in American evangelical Christianity)
Also there is often revulsion toward secularism. Ascetecism becomes an overpowering force. We must keep in mind the fact that Islam began as a radically egalitarian religion. In conquered lands there was a disdain by its warriors for the hierarchal societies and the luxuries of the hierarchy. That is what gave them such sudden and wide acceptance among the dispossessed.
www.InquiryAbraham.com
The 17/18th century period of European Enlightenment ushered in a challenge to Judeo-Christian meaning. Islam played no part. It lay dormant, encapsulated within a disintegrating Ottoman Empire. Today this encapsulation is the underlying reason for the wide differences between Islamic thought and modern post “Western Enlightenment” thought.
That historical fact explains today’s radical extremist Islamic reaction to (our) Judeo-Christian secular Post Enlightenment western world. Radical Islamic groups are revolting against it.
The present day Islamic response has come in a form that parallels other such forms of puritanical religious response from the past. The unequivocal pronouncement is always the same; we are the pure ones and you are not. Our inner conviction makes us superior to you. (Remnants of this appear in American evangelical Christianity)
Also there is often revulsion toward secularism. Ascetecism becomes an overpowering force. We must keep in mind the fact that Islam began as a radically egalitarian religion. In conquered lands there was a disdain by its warriors for the hierarchal societies and the luxuries of the hierarchy. That is what gave them such sudden and wide acceptance among the dispossessed.
www.InquiryAbraham.com
3
ISIS is clearly an ideological issue that must be defeated on two levels:
1. With a credible yet alternate life view promoted by people the ISIS recruits will trust.
2. Complete annihilation of the ISIS organization and territory.
But neither will happen. First, let's deal with the counter ideology:
Wahhabism is the core ideology of ISIS. Saudi Arabia is built on Wahhabism. Saudi money built Al Qaeda, ISIS and arguably, Pakistan's Lashkar units. The Sauds and the Pakistanis thought they could control the terrorist units as the strike forces of their theocratic foreign policies, but the Saudi's have learned otherwise.
There simply is no Islamic moral force to counter Wahhabism as no other Sunni nation will fight another Sunni. No Sunni will countenance a Shiite moral alternative, so there you have it.
How about the military aspect?
Mr Cohen proposes the west put infantry into Syria to defeat ISIS on the ground. Yes, it could be done. But doing so would only incur the wrath of Arabs everywhere since a central tenant of Arab Islam is to keep infidels out of the region. I know, that's a gross simplification, but that's what it nets out to. Add in the subsequent moral indignation of those who will be shocked that infantry tactics are not precise, are bloody and that innocents will die, and you have a no-win situation.
Sorry, but the best alternative is to quarantine the Arab middle east until the theocracies fix themselves. That will take generations.
1. With a credible yet alternate life view promoted by people the ISIS recruits will trust.
2. Complete annihilation of the ISIS organization and territory.
But neither will happen. First, let's deal with the counter ideology:
Wahhabism is the core ideology of ISIS. Saudi Arabia is built on Wahhabism. Saudi money built Al Qaeda, ISIS and arguably, Pakistan's Lashkar units. The Sauds and the Pakistanis thought they could control the terrorist units as the strike forces of their theocratic foreign policies, but the Saudi's have learned otherwise.
There simply is no Islamic moral force to counter Wahhabism as no other Sunni nation will fight another Sunni. No Sunni will countenance a Shiite moral alternative, so there you have it.
How about the military aspect?
Mr Cohen proposes the west put infantry into Syria to defeat ISIS on the ground. Yes, it could be done. But doing so would only incur the wrath of Arabs everywhere since a central tenant of Arab Islam is to keep infidels out of the region. I know, that's a gross simplification, but that's what it nets out to. Add in the subsequent moral indignation of those who will be shocked that infantry tactics are not precise, are bloody and that innocents will die, and you have a no-win situation.
Sorry, but the best alternative is to quarantine the Arab middle east until the theocracies fix themselves. That will take generations.
4
If the problem for the West is that lots of Muslims hate us because we humiliate them and a small percentage of them are willing to act on that hate shouldn't we a) not humiliate them unnecessarily, and b) deny them the opportunity to kill us?
We shouldn't stop doing useful things that incidentally humiliate them, like producing the goods and culture that the world--including most Muslims--want while their countries produce nothing anyone wants, aside from oil (and even that with Western expertise). But when was Western military intervention in the Middle East--the chief grievance of most Islamic terrorists--last useful to us, never mind them?
As long as the memories of Western intervention last--for them, not for us!--admitting large numbers of Muslims to our countries is a bad idea. Thirteen percent of Syrian refugees, for instance, have a positive or "positive to some extent" opinion of ISIS with another 4% "do not know/refused (http://bit.ly/1Oxy0yS ). Leaving aside terrorism, Muslim immigration to Europe has been disastrous (see Malmo or Rotherham), with Muslims' failure to compete successfully in market economies just adding another source of humiliation.
Years, decades, or centuries from now, Islam may have a reformation that will allow its nations and people to join the modern world. Until then, Mr. Cohen's recipe of invasion and immigration is exactly backwards.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/04/28/ST20080428...
We shouldn't stop doing useful things that incidentally humiliate them, like producing the goods and culture that the world--including most Muslims--want while their countries produce nothing anyone wants, aside from oil (and even that with Western expertise). But when was Western military intervention in the Middle East--the chief grievance of most Islamic terrorists--last useful to us, never mind them?
As long as the memories of Western intervention last--for them, not for us!--admitting large numbers of Muslims to our countries is a bad idea. Thirteen percent of Syrian refugees, for instance, have a positive or "positive to some extent" opinion of ISIS with another 4% "do not know/refused (http://bit.ly/1Oxy0yS ). Leaving aside terrorism, Muslim immigration to Europe has been disastrous (see Malmo or Rotherham), with Muslims' failure to compete successfully in market economies just adding another source of humiliation.
Years, decades, or centuries from now, Islam may have a reformation that will allow its nations and people to join the modern world. Until then, Mr. Cohen's recipe of invasion and immigration is exactly backwards.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/04/28/ST20080428...
4
When did we start calling mass murder, multiple and serial rapes, and enslavement "ideological?" This whole debate is rotted by inapplicable terminology. All terror is not terrorism. All killing does not have an ideological basis. All occupied land is not a state. All who call themselves of Islam are not of Islam. Consider the precision of language we find among GOP candidates for POTUS and then explain why anyone, let alone the real POTUS, use terms that are acceptable to that lot of shameful charlatans.
Yes, many have joined Da'esh out of frustration. But we don't know how many. How does Roger Cohen know? How many Da'esh fighters has he interviewed? Let's add to the list of what attracts people to that bloody handed group. How about the opportunity to brutalize women and have a steady diet of rape?
Yes, many have joined Da'esh out of frustration. But we don't know how many. How does Roger Cohen know? How many Da'esh fighters has he interviewed? Let's add to the list of what attracts people to that bloody handed group. How about the opportunity to brutalize women and have a steady diet of rape?
2
I lived in the Middle East for nearly a decade. Although there were several reasons behind my departure, my empathy for those who lived under these dictatorships was at the top of the list. You could see the desperation in their eyes. The final straw came when I happened to drive past a large blue truck that was being loaded with neighborhood men by thuggish police. Women and children were crying while their men folk were pushed into the van like so many cattle on their way to slaughter.
The equation for violence became crystal clear to me. Take a person with little hope of getting ahead in life while having the ability to see how the "system" allowed the 1% to rip them off, add the glamour of violence that media portrays as "entertainment" and take that a step further by actually bringing violence into their daily lives whether it be police brutality, civil war or drone strikes, and then offer the moral justification of some new found religious or political zealotry and the result will be a violent reaction.
I moved on to live in Africa and Europe, but I still saw the same scenario being played out there and getting worse, not better. Now that I live back in the U.S., I have to say I see it here as well. We're simply breeding terrorists.
No amount of police, military or surveillance tactics will end this problem, at least not in the long run. Those who advocate such responses are playing with our fear. Sadly, such responses seem to be the only ones on the table.
The equation for violence became crystal clear to me. Take a person with little hope of getting ahead in life while having the ability to see how the "system" allowed the 1% to rip them off, add the glamour of violence that media portrays as "entertainment" and take that a step further by actually bringing violence into their daily lives whether it be police brutality, civil war or drone strikes, and then offer the moral justification of some new found religious or political zealotry and the result will be a violent reaction.
I moved on to live in Africa and Europe, but I still saw the same scenario being played out there and getting worse, not better. Now that I live back in the U.S., I have to say I see it here as well. We're simply breeding terrorists.
No amount of police, military or surveillance tactics will end this problem, at least not in the long run. Those who advocate such responses are playing with our fear. Sadly, such responses seem to be the only ones on the table.
5
There has always been some animosity between young men from different backgrounds; the biggest difference is today instead of a fist fight or perhaps a gang fight common in the fifties of my youth when the worst that might happen was someone got stabbed or hit with a bat by a member of the opposing gang, today you have the potential for a single disturbed individual to kill dozens thanks to the ease with which they can get a gun. The computer has largely replaced community ties of all sorts and created a new generation of isolated and "left out" young men easily swayed by any authority figure and when you combine that with increasing inequality (you don't see rich kids committing jihad or spraying a school ground with an ak47) and especially the ease with which that ak47 can be obtained, you have a potent mix for disaster. Sadly the things that make headlines are the San Bernadino tragedy when what really needs attention are the literally thousands of young inner city kids in this once richest country of the world who kill each other due to lack of opportunity and inequality in the judicial system, if this isn't addressed and they decide to start shooting the people they perceive to be the problem(and they're often right) the occassional lone wolf gunman will seem almost quaint by comparison.
1
EUROPE'S FUTURE is going to shift very quickly if the refugees continue to pour in from the Middle East and elsewhere. The birth rate in most of Europe is extremely low. However among those who practice Islam, the birth rate tends to be much higher. So the political balance will shift more toward the politics that attract the families of immigrants, their children and grandchildren. France stands out as adhering strongly to the notion of government being part of a secular society. Those who follow Islam and shari'a law have the diametrically opposed view--that religion dictates the law of the land. No doubt some of that message is communicated to Muslims who grew up under shari'a law. I don't anticipate shari'a law becoming the basis for domestic policy in the future in Europe. Rather, understanding the causes of alienation among those who perpetrated acts of terror is essential to protecting against future attacks. What that means for each family and each country will evolve into the shifting political discourse and politics of Europe of the future. It's going to be an interesting journey following along with all of the changes coming down the pike.
As I read your essay I'm struck by a similarity that I'd never noticed before, between black life in the US (post Civil War, Jim Crow, and the Ferguson revelations - for whites) and Muslim life in Europe, Africa, and the Middle East. For a not-insignificant number of urban, poor and poorly educated blacks that see no way out of their dead-end lives (this is of course a huge overstatement) they often choose self-destruction (alcohol, drugs, crime), whereas the young Muslim men (primarily) who face similar prejudice and economic hardships choose an extreme, demented religious orthodoxy and to destroy others. One group destroys themselves, the other, others. Such a terrible waste of potential and a very difficult problem to understand and eliminate. Why did the "solutions" (destroy me v destroy you) arrived at by these two marginalized groups take such different paths?
4
Cohen’s article is thought provoking. While it isn’t a convincing explanation of the motivating forces underlying Islamic terror, it does focus on the human element in an attempt to understand a widespread extremist movement. The search for a common denominator that explains Arab terror is advanced by Roger Cohen’s chain of thought. However, in the end his exposition merely points in a direction rather than proposing an accurate dynamic.
Obviously, one thing distinguishes all Islamist terrorists: they are all Moslems! They act and believe as Moslems. Whether Islamic doctrine demands brutal Jihad or not is besides the point. What characterizes terrorists is their feeling of identity, of common destiny with Islam everywhere, accompanied by all its failings and submissions. This inevitably aligns them against the West who is faulted as the cause of Islam’s plight.
Obviously, one thing distinguishes all Islamist terrorists: they are all Moslems! They act and believe as Moslems. Whether Islamic doctrine demands brutal Jihad or not is besides the point. What characterizes terrorists is their feeling of identity, of common destiny with Islam everywhere, accompanied by all its failings and submissions. This inevitably aligns them against the West who is faulted as the cause of Islam’s plight.
1
There's another motivation for these acts of terrorism, and it's a crucial one.
Yes, many people in many cultures feel humiliated, purposeless, lacking direction. Many (particularly men) are looking for thrills, excitement, "glory" (I'm really fed up with that toxic cliche!), and a sense of belonging in a hierarchy.
But recently I reread Sam Harris' book "The End of Faith." He points out that acts like 9/11 and the Paris attacks, which seem crazy and senseless to us-- "Why would they kill all those people and themselves?"-- make perfect sense to the terrorists, because THEY believe in the religious fantasy of an eternal afterlife, a paradise where they'll be rewarded as martyrs and eventually see their children rejoin them there, whereas their secular or Christian "enemies" will be dispatched to hell. When they're caught up in that kind of magical storyline, why would they regret harming this earthly world and then leaving it forever? Why would this world, and the people in it, have much meaning for them? They think they've found a wonderful escape from all of its difficulties.
Such heinous acts done in the name of an ideology, says Harris, are committed ONLY by people who believe they're going to an afterlife that will make their existence in this world insignificant by comparison. So we will continue to see such terrorism as long as people are captive to such beliefs. (And some do it thinking they'll be going to a Christian heaven.)
Yes, many people in many cultures feel humiliated, purposeless, lacking direction. Many (particularly men) are looking for thrills, excitement, "glory" (I'm really fed up with that toxic cliche!), and a sense of belonging in a hierarchy.
But recently I reread Sam Harris' book "The End of Faith." He points out that acts like 9/11 and the Paris attacks, which seem crazy and senseless to us-- "Why would they kill all those people and themselves?"-- make perfect sense to the terrorists, because THEY believe in the religious fantasy of an eternal afterlife, a paradise where they'll be rewarded as martyrs and eventually see their children rejoin them there, whereas their secular or Christian "enemies" will be dispatched to hell. When they're caught up in that kind of magical storyline, why would they regret harming this earthly world and then leaving it forever? Why would this world, and the people in it, have much meaning for them? They think they've found a wonderful escape from all of its difficulties.
Such heinous acts done in the name of an ideology, says Harris, are committed ONLY by people who believe they're going to an afterlife that will make their existence in this world insignificant by comparison. So we will continue to see such terrorism as long as people are captive to such beliefs. (And some do it thinking they'll be going to a Christian heaven.)
1
An example of today's harshness : contemporary society's rejection of 'losers'. The debate revolving around the plight of young graduates' debt burden often involves complacent old conservatives deploring students' questionable choice of college majors, rendering young people completely responsible for their failures. How unfair! if so, why do guidance counselors, cynical university departments, etc. still sing the praises of a 'well-rounded' liberal arts degree totally unadapted to today's values unless one is quite sure of scoring a job in education? Even in democracies in North America and the European Union, the weight of sociocultural capital cannot be overestimated. Unfortunately, the weaker elements of neo-proletariat are the most vulnerable to the nihilism of the Islamofascists distilling their unique brand of resentful hatred on the broadband....
A mentally ill twenty-year-old with no assistance, domestic or foreign, killed 26 people in a small town in Connecticut. Surely it doesn't take a "mastermind" for nine men to figure out how to kill 130 (about 14 apiece) in a major metropolis. Those who are shocked that they killed that many should realize that the toll could have been far greater with more competent execution of the plan (the suicide vests killed at most a handful of the victims).
In open societies it's not hard to kill lots of people, especially if you don't care if you're caught or killed. Mr. Cohen may not want to acknowledge this because it makes his campaign for Europe to admit the current flood of Muslim migrants seem positively suicidal, given how disastrous decades of Muslim migration has been for Europe already.
(See the Washington Post on Muslims in Europe's jails or the CBC on Malmo, Sweden.)
Mr. Cohen also wants the U.S. to admit large numbers of Syrian refugees, 13% of whom have positive or somewhat positive feelings about ISIS (http://bit.ly/1Oxy0yS ). Events in San Bernardino since he penned this column show why this is a reckless idea. Mr. Cohen wants more of the Western military interventions in the Middle East that fuel jihadism. Far better for the West to "deploy infantry against global jihad" on its own borders to keep out those who hate us (for reasons both good and bad).
In open societies it's not hard to kill lots of people, especially if you don't care if you're caught or killed. Mr. Cohen may not want to acknowledge this because it makes his campaign for Europe to admit the current flood of Muslim migrants seem positively suicidal, given how disastrous decades of Muslim migration has been for Europe already.
(See the Washington Post on Muslims in Europe's jails or the CBC on Malmo, Sweden.)
Mr. Cohen also wants the U.S. to admit large numbers of Syrian refugees, 13% of whom have positive or somewhat positive feelings about ISIS (http://bit.ly/1Oxy0yS ). Events in San Bernardino since he penned this column show why this is a reckless idea. Mr. Cohen wants more of the Western military interventions in the Middle East that fuel jihadism. Far better for the West to "deploy infantry against global jihad" on its own borders to keep out those who hate us (for reasons both good and bad).
3
So, to avoid "the humiliation of purposelessness" European Islamists take up arms in order to subject women to third class citizenship, acquire slaves, engage in extrajudicial killings, and generally shoot up anyone who doesn't kneel before the Caliphate.
Engaging in even the most vague and indirect apologetics for such medieval barbarism by any Westerner with any claim to a civilized world view, whatsoever, would smack of hypocrisy, if not cowardice.
Engaging in even the most vague and indirect apologetics for such medieval barbarism by any Westerner with any claim to a civilized world view, whatsoever, would smack of hypocrisy, if not cowardice.
1
The fight is not between Islam and Christendom or between the first and third worlds- it is a fight between the secular, open democratic society that has developed since the enlightenment and people who reject all for a theology that in it's more orthodox interpretations has little room for anything but itself.
Europe has a problem and a very big one- demographics and geography are going to fundamentally change the face of the continent that gave birth to the enlightenment. Those descendent from the traditional peoples of Europe are not having enough children to even replace their numbers even as waves of new and recent have high birthrates and share little culturally, religiously, ethnically or politically. Political instability and climate change are going to drive successive waves of peoples from Africa and SW Asia into a Europe ill equipped to handle them.
Americans should not feel at all secure that oceans and man made walls will keep migrants out. As the climate warms, weather patterns change and economies become disturbed by the change migration will become the biggest feature of globalization. Add in the problems coming due to resource depletion and the problem is going to be massive in a way few can probably fathom.
The only real questions are these:
1- How fast will it happen?
2- How will those living in the countries being invaded respond?
Europe has a problem and a very big one- demographics and geography are going to fundamentally change the face of the continent that gave birth to the enlightenment. Those descendent from the traditional peoples of Europe are not having enough children to even replace their numbers even as waves of new and recent have high birthrates and share little culturally, religiously, ethnically or politically. Political instability and climate change are going to drive successive waves of peoples from Africa and SW Asia into a Europe ill equipped to handle them.
Americans should not feel at all secure that oceans and man made walls will keep migrants out. As the climate warms, weather patterns change and economies become disturbed by the change migration will become the biggest feature of globalization. Add in the problems coming due to resource depletion and the problem is going to be massive in a way few can probably fathom.
The only real questions are these:
1- How fast will it happen?
2- How will those living in the countries being invaded respond?
1
We live in a difficult time. We do not know what to do. Last month I wrote a comment which brought nasty responses from many. I said this month Paris, Mali, the Russian plane, and Beruit. Next month, different places, but more of the same. Next month is here and we have San Bernardino and Cairo. It is early, Christmas and New Years are coming, there will be more. In the U.S., even after 911, we think it is a good idea to bring in a Saudi so she can marry and bring horror to California. The GOP is too PC and dumb to see that easy access to guns helps terrorists. The POTUS and the Democrats are too dumb and PC to admit there is a big problem within Islam. Easy immigration from the Middle East invites terror. More surveillance and a crackdown on immigration invites more incitement of the Muslims already here. Not a pretty picture.
4
As a Belgian citizen who works already 25 years in Brussels, I can only agree with what Roger Cohen writes down here: young Muslims become terrorists while they are feeling humiliated by the Western culture and society. Europe has become a kind of United States of Europe; the virtue of material wealth has replaced anything else, like solidarity, idealism and faith. What counts nowadays are career, money, alcohol, premarital sex... a devil's barn in the eyes of the Muslim population be it in Paris, London or Brussels.
Mahatma Gandhi was a lawyer in South-Africa. He thought he was a well respected man. One day, he was thrown out of a train, because he was not white. His proud was hurt and it changed everything in his life. It don't take much to turn one's mind around.
Mahatma Gandhi was a lawyer in South-Africa. He thought he was a well respected man. One day, he was thrown out of a train, because he was not white. His proud was hurt and it changed everything in his life. It don't take much to turn one's mind around.
4
Mr. Cohen writes: "Abaaoud’s story is also a warning in a world where, as Defense Secretary Ashton B. Carter put it recently at Harvard’s Kennedy School, 'destructive power of greater and greater magnitude falls into the hands of smaller and smaller groups of human beings.'"
That sounds like an excellent description of the power of right wing extremist members of the US Congress, or of wealthy right wing people in the US political process in general. In a world where the educated people are becoming less ideological, focused extremist groups are becoming more powerful and more difficult to keep under control. A big problem for sure.
That sounds like an excellent description of the power of right wing extremist members of the US Congress, or of wealthy right wing people in the US political process in general. In a world where the educated people are becoming less ideological, focused extremist groups are becoming more powerful and more difficult to keep under control. A big problem for sure.
"...It’s the humiliation of purposelessness. It’s a quest for respect..."
That's right. But a fractured economy, especially one where you're penalized because of your culture or color, is part of the why of that. You're coming from your own experience. But in your time in Europe, were you ever constrained or humiliated by others' biases on a daily basis?
I believe if one is working hard, can support oneself and loved ones, and one's community is functional, there's no time and few reasons to turn to ideology. All three pieces - work, income and community - are what optimize the chances of seeing the world through a sane, humanistic lens. One's parents' journey is not one's own. One has to make one's own life.
"...a plausible flight from ambivalent modernity..." - why a need to flee modernity unless it's missing some core feature, like real community, real opportunities?
I'm not excusing anyone here. I'm only saying that to defeat the call of Daesh and other extremist, we need a much more nuanced understanding of those who are vulnerable to hearing it.
The Paris attackers - we know who they are and what they're capable of now, after the fact. But we didn't know before. Or at least, not enough to act to stop what happened.
Normal kids may sign up for this kind of stuff tomorrow.
We are lacking in our understanding of why. What are the vacuums in their lives, that make space for them to feel thrilled by, and drawn to action by, extremism?
That's right. But a fractured economy, especially one where you're penalized because of your culture or color, is part of the why of that. You're coming from your own experience. But in your time in Europe, were you ever constrained or humiliated by others' biases on a daily basis?
I believe if one is working hard, can support oneself and loved ones, and one's community is functional, there's no time and few reasons to turn to ideology. All three pieces - work, income and community - are what optimize the chances of seeing the world through a sane, humanistic lens. One's parents' journey is not one's own. One has to make one's own life.
"...a plausible flight from ambivalent modernity..." - why a need to flee modernity unless it's missing some core feature, like real community, real opportunities?
I'm not excusing anyone here. I'm only saying that to defeat the call of Daesh and other extremist, we need a much more nuanced understanding of those who are vulnerable to hearing it.
The Paris attackers - we know who they are and what they're capable of now, after the fact. But we didn't know before. Or at least, not enough to act to stop what happened.
Normal kids may sign up for this kind of stuff tomorrow.
We are lacking in our understanding of why. What are the vacuums in their lives, that make space for them to feel thrilled by, and drawn to action by, extremism?
1
Islam proclaims the absolute equality of all Muslims, and places them above other, "servile" people. Finding themselves in positions of inferiority to non-believers is all that's needed to create a sense of humiliation.
We all want to see ourselves as successful. We all want meaning in our lives. But Islam is the only belief system with more than a billion adherents that suggests you can find that meaning by killing someone else.
We all want to see ourselves as successful. We all want meaning in our lives. But Islam is the only belief system with more than a billion adherents that suggests you can find that meaning by killing someone else.
3
Many ISIS sympathizers have the luxury of European opportunity or welfare or Saudi oil dollars. It is important to be cognizant of the history of Islam. The religion began from a very small area of the Arabian peninsula. It spread to dozens of countries by conquest & wars in which often unbelievers were put to the sword and their women taken by the faithful. Memories of these victories are cherished by most Muslims even if they do not sympathize with ISIS. As long as Muslims define their existence by a belief in the infallibility of the Quran and the infallibility of the Prophet, terrorists will keep sprouting from amongst them.
7
ISIL's adherents believe this is the End of Days, and will do nothing to stop their insane rush to the precipice, taking as many innocents as possible with them. You cannot reason or negotiate with people who believe they above all others are the chosen ones, and everyone else deserves to die. Let us not kid ourselves that standard methods utilized to date will stop this force. The only way to defeat it is to stamp it out. Just how to do this will be our greatest task. Rest assured, the bloodletting has just begun.
3
What approach will succeed? Roger Cohen's or Andrew Bacevich's?
http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/11/17/is-the-fight-against-isi...
The US and France are focused on ISIS, but others are not. Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Russia have different priorities. Not all their enemies are ours, and in some cases, for example the Kurds, they are our allies.
What can we do? Policies that keep the price of oil as low as possible. It strengthens the US and give us leverage over every player in the Mideast, and lessens their influence, on America and everyone else. It's not the sole solution, but would help.
http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/11/17/is-the-fight-against-isi...
The US and France are focused on ISIS, but others are not. Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Russia have different priorities. Not all their enemies are ours, and in some cases, for example the Kurds, they are our allies.
What can we do? Policies that keep the price of oil as low as possible. It strengthens the US and give us leverage over every player in the Mideast, and lessens their influence, on America and everyone else. It's not the sole solution, but would help.
1
Mr. Cohen reminds of Mr. Jones, the myopic liberal, satirized by Bob Dylan in his classic rock and roll song, Ballad of a Thin Man: "Because something is happening here / But you don't know what it is / Do you, Mister Jones?"As Robert S. McNamara observed in The Fog of War, the first rule of statecraft is the ability to empathize with your adversary. JFK avoided nuclear war with the old Soviet Union during the Cuban Missle Crisis because he had empathy. Mr. Cohen unfortunately swims on the surface of his consciousness. He is oblivious to the deep undercurrrents that cause the waves to crash on the shore. Mr. Cohen is merely treading water in our chaotic postmodern era. And I actually feel sorry for him. He just doesn't get it. I got it long ago during my tour of duty in Vietnam. I understood the unbreakable resolve, the iron will, the messianic sense of self-sacrifice of our adversary in Vietnam. They were even more barbaric, coldblooded and amoral than the jahadis who live among us now.
1
'...It’s the humiliation of purposelessness. It’s a quest for respect...'
Please stop with all the excuses.
Millions of immigrants from Asia to the US and Europe and have worked hard and moved into the middle class, without committing any terrorist acts against their host countries.
Why are Middle Easterners different?
And why should any country take the risk to accept even more Muslims, when there are millions of immigrants from Third World countries who no one needs to fear?
Please stop with all the excuses.
Millions of immigrants from Asia to the US and Europe and have worked hard and moved into the middle class, without committing any terrorist acts against their host countries.
Why are Middle Easterners different?
And why should any country take the risk to accept even more Muslims, when there are millions of immigrants from Third World countries who no one needs to fear?
1
The want respect.
The demand respect.
But they live in a society in which respect has to be earned and is not given away just because you pray to the "right" god.
They live physically in a world that has moved on while their ideology has not.
Time to grow up or separate.
The demand respect.
But they live in a society in which respect has to be earned and is not given away just because you pray to the "right" god.
They live physically in a world that has moved on while their ideology has not.
Time to grow up or separate.
2
War games, real and digital, v rather banal reality seems to lead to banal and not so banal evil.
I see many with a difficulty in connecting to plain reality, cause and effect. No hands on experience where personal shortcomings must be overcome until a positive outcome occurs. No skills with financial planning. No ability to write. Fantasy diets and questionable adherence to food science. It goes on. Guns can also lead to a dead shooter. Paradise is hard to verify.
I see many with a difficulty in connecting to plain reality, cause and effect. No hands on experience where personal shortcomings must be overcome until a positive outcome occurs. No skills with financial planning. No ability to write. Fantasy diets and questionable adherence to food science. It goes on. Guns can also lead to a dead shooter. Paradise is hard to verify.
The biggest issue is that the West doesn't understand this sort of fundamentalism. It seeks to look for rational reasons for why someone does something; poverty, abusive parents,discrimination, unemployment etc.And as you point out here, these reasons don't apply. So when we have well educated young Muslims with all sorts of potential for their futures willing to die in their pursuit of Jihad, it doesn't fit with what we know of motives and reason.
Right now, after the California shooting, there are countless articles puzzling over motive. What would compel a young couple to leave their baby with grandma and take out innocent lives, losing theirs in the process? Again, I don't think we can understand their motivation with our western mindset. We need those who do understand to help prevent more young potential jihadists from starting the next massacre.
Right now, after the California shooting, there are countless articles puzzling over motive. What would compel a young couple to leave their baby with grandma and take out innocent lives, losing theirs in the process? Again, I don't think we can understand their motivation with our western mindset. We need those who do understand to help prevent more young potential jihadists from starting the next massacre.
5
The obsession with honor and revenge that pervades the Arab world is the culprit here. Not only does it produce lunatic murderers like Abaaoud but it keeps the entire society down as well. It prevents a reasonable compromise between the Jordan River and the Sea and keeps the insane Sunni/Shia conflict alive for 1300 years.
4
The terror threat to ordinary, decent Europeans is, unfortunately, not one still "à venir", still to come in the future, it's one already here and one very likely to blight our lives and those of our children for decades. Roger Cohen is effectively saying that feelings of cultural displacement in the children of Muslim immigrants has produced a sense of humiliation for which remedy is sought in embracing a murderous terrorist ideology from Muslim groups. Leaving out the reference to "humiliation" which I feel may well be more in the writer's fancy than existing in reality, any European with their eyes open over the last half-century will have seen this coming. However, the main cause of the very real cultural displacement is the general unwillingness of Muslim communities to integrate into European societies. Our societies have taken in immigrants of all faiths and origins and our societies are incredibly diverse and generally tolerant - with one very striking exception, that of Muslims. Now tell me, why is that, why is it that we Europeans would have set out to make it deliberately hard for Muslims? The simple answer is that we haven't made it hard for Muslims. It is Muslims who have rejected and who reject our societies and our values. It's all very well for governments and politicians to be waking up now to this reality. It's so very sad and stupid of them to have refused to listen to ordinary Europeans who have been saying this out loud for years and years.
2
"I commented to my husband how easily the men felt insulted (often you only had to disagree with them about something!) and immediately became angry."
That is a very interesting observation. I've have had similar experiences. It is by no means all, but a noticeable percentage who appeared to have a real chip on their shoulder. Innocuous comments could draw an immediate and fiery response. Mix this attitude with an ideology that speaks of death to all infidels and you have a volatile mix.
That is a very interesting observation. I've have had similar experiences. It is by no means all, but a noticeable percentage who appeared to have a real chip on their shoulder. Innocuous comments could draw an immediate and fiery response. Mix this attitude with an ideology that speaks of death to all infidels and you have a volatile mix.
• The Rue de l’Avenir, or Future Street, was supposed to lead to a decent European life, not veer off to Syria and the apocalyptic universe of the Islamic State.
“To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men."
~ ABRAHAM LINCOLN
And you have no one but the Exceptional United States of America, its hubris, its ignorance, its cupidity, its violent streak, its war-mongering to thank for it all – from the Middle East through Paris right to San Bernardino.
The chickens have come home to roost! Welcome them. They're yours.
"But we should be outraged at what's going on in the world. Anger is not negative. Why shouldn't I be outraged? Why shouldn't I be bitter and angry?"
~ JULIE NICHOLSON
English vicar whose daughter died in the London tube bombings of July 2005.
“To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men."
~ ABRAHAM LINCOLN
And you have no one but the Exceptional United States of America, its hubris, its ignorance, its cupidity, its violent streak, its war-mongering to thank for it all – from the Middle East through Paris right to San Bernardino.
The chickens have come home to roost! Welcome them. They're yours.
"But we should be outraged at what's going on in the world. Anger is not negative. Why shouldn't I be outraged? Why shouldn't I be bitter and angry?"
~ JULIE NICHOLSON
English vicar whose daughter died in the London tube bombings of July 2005.
1
The IS threat to America cannot be existential or all-enveloping, because America's ability to snoop is very good. But for Europe it is, due to proximity if nothing else. An existential threat is essentially psychological. If an explosion goes off at a detergent manufacturing plant somewhere in America, the first question asked by the press these days would be, 'could it be a terrorist attack?' That is psychological. From there the all-enveloping existential threat is just a short step away. For that Americans would give up their lives to safe themselves, let alone basic civil liberties.
Too complicated. Parents or grandparents of these murderers were happy to find work and decent housing; these kids expect a middle class life without effort, but want some "glory" that will distinguish them from the infidel masses. Same with the murderers in California. Obviously the internet preachers and many local preachers are churning out the call to jihad, which clearly defies any attempt whatsoever at normalization in western society, regardless of income or education. Expect more, not less, gullible Muslim youth to follow the pied piper to terror and suicide.
1
Given the use of western military violence to lessen middle eastern violence has failed, the time has come to try a different approach; complete withdrawal.
1
My Dad was a 1st generation Assyrian. He felt discriminated against and alienated. He assimilated and became a highly successful lawyer who laughed at those who put him down. He was proud of his heritage. He was raised a Christian and like many Americans became an atheist. He thought Religion was a fairy tale for naive followers. This latest version of Islam wouldn't have surprised him in the least.
"ISIS is not a social issue. You don’t kill 130 people in Paris because you lost your job or never had one. It is ideological."
For a mainstream journalist, there is nothing more brilliant than stating the painfully obvious as accepted by public opinion.
Yes, I'm being sarcastic. Sorry.
For a mainstream journalist, there is nothing more brilliant than stating the painfully obvious as accepted by public opinion.
Yes, I'm being sarcastic. Sorry.
1
True, but after a lot of blood and struggle, the Petraeus surge brought the Sunni tribes to America's side and stanched the bleeding. Then Obama -- wanting the US out of there no matter what -- looked the other way as pro-Iranian Shiite Nouri al Maliki stole a free election from secular pro-American Ayad Alawi to take over Iraq, tilted Iraq into Iran's orbit, and oppressed the same Sunni tribes. Obama meanwhile -- not wanting to "do stupid stuff" -- washed his hands of the whole thing; Hillary Clinton's choice of US ambassador to Iraq Chris Stevens turned out to be a disaster. And when the void started to fill with ISIS, Obama dismissed it as a JV terrorist team. The rest is history.
1
ISIS provides a wonderful opportunity for cooperation among the "Great" powers, if they will only take it. If ever an organization deserved complete extermination, ISIS is it.
2
Abaaoud exemplifies my concerns about Europe or anyplace accepting waves of Middle Eastern refugees: the refugees themselves could all be peaceful people seeking freedom and opportunity.
But if they fail to assimilate fully, do their children grow up with the possibility of being radicalized like Abaaoud and Mohammed Atta?
And, assimilation is a two way street. New immigrants must try to adapt, but critically, also, the HOST country, meaning the native populations, must be welcoming. That means no bullying by native kids of immigrant kids, and no teasing of people who have dark skin or beards or head scarves, and no discrimination in countless ways, not just jobs.
Human nature is generally not capable of this kind of tolerance. Who made Abaaoud? Brussels made him!
It is unrealistic to think that this will not always happen. Please do not accuse me of 'blaming Brussels'. This is just what happens among human beings everywhere.
So, I put no faith in love. I believe homogeneous societies tend to be the peaceful ones.
Meaning, large numbers of refugees are a recipe for trouble. down the road.
But if they fail to assimilate fully, do their children grow up with the possibility of being radicalized like Abaaoud and Mohammed Atta?
And, assimilation is a two way street. New immigrants must try to adapt, but critically, also, the HOST country, meaning the native populations, must be welcoming. That means no bullying by native kids of immigrant kids, and no teasing of people who have dark skin or beards or head scarves, and no discrimination in countless ways, not just jobs.
Human nature is generally not capable of this kind of tolerance. Who made Abaaoud? Brussels made him!
It is unrealistic to think that this will not always happen. Please do not accuse me of 'blaming Brussels'. This is just what happens among human beings everywhere.
So, I put no faith in love. I believe homogeneous societies tend to be the peaceful ones.
Meaning, large numbers of refugees are a recipe for trouble. down the road.
4
Roger Cohen says it's "the humiliation of purposelessness" that has driven some young Muslims into the arms of ISIS. But it is the fault of radical clerics who preach hatred and incite disgruntled youth to take vengeance on us. Basically we treat Muslims with equal rights, but if they don't feel like sharing our values and obligations, they risk to become permanent outsiders and fall prey to radicalisation.
While we are trying to eradicate the Islamic State, the Sunni clerics have to decide which version of Islam they want to preach - the Saudi-Wahhabism or a more modern and moderate one. Saudi Arabia, which prides itself on being the custodian of the Two Holy Mosques really has to do some soul-searching, whether it is in its interest to spread the austere version of Islam and use the Shia-Sunni schism to advance its interest in the region.
While we are trying to eradicate the Islamic State, the Sunni clerics have to decide which version of Islam they want to preach - the Saudi-Wahhabism or a more modern and moderate one. Saudi Arabia, which prides itself on being the custodian of the Two Holy Mosques really has to do some soul-searching, whether it is in its interest to spread the austere version of Islam and use the Shia-Sunni schism to advance its interest in the region.
2
We are not so different, we are just throwing bombs, or crippling an economy.
We have alike shameful generalizations about all muslims, we consider them all as terrorists, and act on them accordingly. Our religious right wing is likewise deluded, you can't have a decent arguing with them without being decried as an traitor to the freedom or whatever else.
And we should know better, it is not so complicated to take a closer look.
We must simply acknowledge, that we will always have some arsonist among us, it is nothing that prosperity or education can prevent. The difference is, we have warplanes, and the muslim fanatics just have assassins.
We have alike shameful generalizations about all muslims, we consider them all as terrorists, and act on them accordingly. Our religious right wing is likewise deluded, you can't have a decent arguing with them without being decried as an traitor to the freedom or whatever else.
And we should know better, it is not so complicated to take a closer look.
We must simply acknowledge, that we will always have some arsonist among us, it is nothing that prosperity or education can prevent. The difference is, we have warplanes, and the muslim fanatics just have assassins.
8
Wow, really?
"We" are throwing bombs and are crippling economies?
If you are throwing bombs or are crippling economies, please count me out, I do not do anything like that.
"We" are throwing bombs and are crippling economies?
If you are throwing bombs or are crippling economies, please count me out, I do not do anything like that.
2
I see that you are not above generalizations yourself. I do not see all Muslims as terrorists, but one would have to be blind to not see that Islam launches a disproportionate percentage of young men into the goal of targeting innocent civilians. We agonize over collateral damage....while everyone they target is collateral damage.
So no, what you say is the "difference' is actually not the difference. Mr. Cohen is simply trying to explain the actual difference.
So no, what you say is the "difference' is actually not the difference. Mr. Cohen is simply trying to explain the actual difference.
I fear your's is the perspective that will sink us: to wit - no material difference between Western culture, government and actions and all that is ISIS. Same things only different.
Simply put, ISIS is no mere "arsonist" It is nihilistic and apocalyptic and the West is not. ISIS will behead an individual or immolate a nation or vaporize a continent. Even the Nazis did their best to hide their worst deeds while ISIS can't broadcast them fast or far enough.
I don't know the tactical or strategic answers but I think I know the problem. I just don't want to ever come face to face with ISIS to confirm my theory. I suspect that you don't, either.
Simply put, ISIS is no mere "arsonist" It is nihilistic and apocalyptic and the West is not. ISIS will behead an individual or immolate a nation or vaporize a continent. Even the Nazis did their best to hide their worst deeds while ISIS can't broadcast them fast or far enough.
I don't know the tactical or strategic answers but I think I know the problem. I just don't want to ever come face to face with ISIS to confirm my theory. I suspect that you don't, either.
To say of ISIS that it's not a social issue is plain wrong. Just like Naziism and Soviet communism, its undoubtedly ideological apex sustains its power with the support of a socially motivated base. One of the prime sources of ISIS is the de-ba'athification of Iraq and in particular the total disbanding of the Iraqi army by the Occupation Authority under Paul Bremer.
What could possibly go wrong? A pool of desperately unemployed young ex-soldiers, mostly Sunnis, that's what. That's your socially motivated base, ripe fodder for exploitation by a few ideologues. Without that base, ISIS could not have got off the ground.
What could possibly go wrong? A pool of desperately unemployed young ex-soldiers, mostly Sunnis, that's what. That's your socially motivated base, ripe fodder for exploitation by a few ideologues. Without that base, ISIS could not have got off the ground.
11
Interesting observations, but the explanation may be more basic. Could these young guys (for these people are generally male and young) simply be seeking adventure? It wouldn't be unusual. Could they be looking for discipline? Gangs offer that. A peaceful life in a calm suburb can't compete with the high drama they envision for themselves.
18
In my experience a lot of north Africans are very easily humiliated. Of course it is still a minority, you find also cool headed, wise and good people among them. But I clearly remember seeing a lot of North Africans in Paris being very aggressive and defensive. Impossible to come to an agreement with them, even to agree to disagree. That is something that didn't go well with French people and played a role in isolating North Africans there. I am not sure it has anything to do with Islam though. It may just be a cultural difference that makes them too different. They may get tired of non being assimilated despite their best efforts, because they seem agitated for nothing. Maybe in doesn't mean anything to them to look angry and to speak loud, but lots of people in Europe don't like it. Sometimes all you can do to be assimilated is to change, and that can be hard for some people.
22
You hit on two important points. You say "...not being assimilated in spite of their best efforts." and follow that with "Sometimes all you can do to be assimilated it to change...". Being assimilated requires that you change. Being assimilated does not mean society changes towards your culture so you feel comfortable. So your first statement "...despite their best efforts." is really false. If they made their best effort it would require that THEY change. They stop wearing the burka. They stop covering their face. They stop honor killings. They stop arranged marriages.
Bottom line, if they come to Europe, they should become Europeans. It is wrong of them to want to destroy our culture so they feel comfortable.
Bottom line, if they come to Europe, they should become Europeans. It is wrong of them to want to destroy our culture so they feel comfortable.
1
In the 1960s, American workers earned fair wages and benefits and had unions to protect their interests. Now their children and grandchildren are unemployed or underemployed at a less-than-living wage, can't afford to buy homes, and crowd Donald Trump appearances. On toppa the world, Ma!
18
Correct me if I'm wrong, Mr. Cohen but are you trying your best to excuse the murderers? and under the guise of a humiliation blamed upon their European benefactors? Silliness and nonsense.
11
Gee. And all this time I thought it was all due to climate change. Or was is all due to Palestinians getting angrier and angrier at Israel in direct proportion to the number of peace offers and actual offers to finally get the a state they claim is all they ever wanted being consistently rejected by them over the last 70 years.
It is the usual mea culpa of a liberal who wakes up one day to find that he has looked the other way too long.
But at least he is trying to understand and act accordingly.
Which is a good start.
But at least he is trying to understand and act accordingly.
Which is a good start.
He is attempting to understand and explain, not exonerate. You are seeing your own prejudice.
1
I have thought for some time now that part of the appeal of Daseh is existential or if you like it solves a series of issues: psychological ( humiliation ), sexual ( strict moral code of Islam), and spiritual ( who am I? what should I be or become?), and exclusion from a meaningful work and purpose. Not to mention it must be terribly exciting to be able wreck death and mayhem and have it justified by your faith in God.
These issues face all young men and young women regardless if the are in the West or the Middle-East or Asia. The desire and yearning to find purpose is ever present and difficult at times to find even when you are free to choose and especially when you are told you are free. But, alas, freedom as a path is not that straight forward for a young man or woman from the Middle-East.
These issues face all young men and young women regardless if the are in the West or the Middle-East or Asia. The desire and yearning to find purpose is ever present and difficult at times to find even when you are free to choose and especially when you are told you are free. But, alas, freedom as a path is not that straight forward for a young man or woman from the Middle-East.
4
"Theirs were the educated choices of what the late Fouad Ajami called “Islam’s nowhere men,” people for whom Western freedom became alienation."
More devolution: Freedom of choice is what you got, freedom from choice is what you want.
More devolution: Freedom of choice is what you got, freedom from choice is what you want.
11
"But the West will no longer deploy infantry against global jihad. Nor will Arab states. That is a high-risk policy — too high, in my view." Will Mr Cohen's children be volunteering as infantry? Doubt it- the children of the poor are the ones we sacrifice to fight our wars. People should only be allowed to promote warfare if they are willing to promote conscription.
8
Most if not all successful societies only succeed if they have a dominant main culture that leads from that position while nurturing the sub cultures to join and contribute. Myself, I am 100% for keeping our Judeo/Christain democratic culture as the dominant culture in the West. Is there something intolerant with this view? Am I humiliating the sub cultures? Isn't this the culture our forefathers fought and died for?
27
Marginalization in these cases appears to be a modern variation on the tyranny of small differences. Many of these fellows are angry because despite basic life success, they sense personal failure becuase they didn't become wealthy, or singularly respected, and perceived that racial or religious discrimination must be the underlying cause. Everything these days is extreme -- extreme sports, gonzo video, hedge fund billionaires, even extreme soft drinks and chips. When everyone appears extremely involved with life, but yours isn't so extreme, then the twenty-something answer to life is an extremist religion and and extreme exit as a form of performance art.
23
If one has even passing knowledge of the milieu of the 1930's and the milieu of today (a bit harder for us to assess unless one listens closely to republicans) the parallels with our times and those times are really quite chilling,
6
Just wait. Just wait until some crazed group of lunatic Pakistanis take control of their country's nuclear arsenal and decide to REALLY right all the wrongs Muslims have supposedly suffered! The inevitable conclusion is that none of us are exempt from the obligation to take control of situations far away and superficially having nothing to do with us while at the same time having EVERYTHING to do with us. Ground troops in Syria and Iraq are small potatoes compared what we'll require to deal with a radicalized Pakistan, which is already suffering from a surfeit of energized fanatics.
9
So we all want simple, single variable, binary solutions. Most problems and solutions are far more complex. Islam has nothing to do with Daesh/ISIS or Al Queda (Obama, many Muslims) or Islam is Peace (George W. Bush, many Muslims). Or Islam is the only or primary cause or Daesh and Al Queda and all global terrorism (Republicans, Fox News, talk radio, right-wing social media, Bill Maher liberals) or, at least let's get over the political correctness and call it Radical Islam (but we really mean all Islam, and cannot draw the distinction within Radical Islam - Wahabbi jihadists' worst enemy are Shia radicals). For the Islam has nothing to do with it crowd, if we, Muslims and non-Muslims do not take on Saudi Wahabbism, once Daesh is bombed/destroyed, it will be replaced with something worse (unless we nuke the whole region minus Israel like some want) and will destroy Islam. Conflating Saudi Arabia with Turkey like Cohen does adds to the problem. And yes, broader reform along the lines of the Indonesian model (and not all Muslims becoming Maher liberals overnight) for the Muslim world will help. For the Islam is the source of all problems crowd, stop killing millions of innocent Muslims, stop forming the foundation for Al Queda and Taliban (to take down Soviets) and for Daesh (with an unnecessary Iraq War). Don't conflate Daesh and Al Queda with all Islamic threats. Work with moderate Muslims instead of blaming them or insisting that they have to become Maher "liberals."
3
It IS Islam's problem because the Muslim community allows the hate-spewers to control mosques and do not inform the cops, usually. They allow the war-lovers to live and store weapons around them.
Muslims have to decide if helping out government is worth the rest of the planet deciding one day to simply do away with Islam like France decided once to do away with the Protestants. It will be THAT simple.
The ball is in your court, ''moderate'' Muslims. You have waited long enough.
Muslims have to decide if helping out government is worth the rest of the planet deciding one day to simply do away with Islam like France decided once to do away with the Protestants. It will be THAT simple.
The ball is in your court, ''moderate'' Muslims. You have waited long enough.
23
Freedom is a terrifying thought for many people, it means thinking for yourself and taking responsibility. When most people are given freedom they chose to follow. It accounts for all the isms of the 20th Century, communism, fascism now jihadism... this was the crisis the great philosopher Nietzsche foresaw with the Death of God. Jihardism is the death scream of a dying world religion trying to revive itself with nothing to offer but terror and violence.
11
Dalai Lama on Paris attacks: 'Work for peace, and don't expect help from God and governments'
The Dalai Lama:
"The twentieth century was a violent one, and more than 200 million people died due to wars and other conflicts. We now see a spillover of the previous century's bloodshed in this century. If we emphasize more on non-violence and harmony, we can herald a new beginning. Unless we make serious attempts to achieve peace, we will continue to see a replay of the mayhem humanity experienced in the 20th century.
People want to lead a peaceful lives. The terrorists are short-sighted, and this is one of the causes of rampant suicide bombings. We cannot solve this problem only through prayers. I am a Buddhist and I believe in praying. But humans have created this problem, and now we are asking God to solve it. It is illogical. God would say, solve it yourself because you created it in the first place.
We need a systematic approach to foster humanistic values, of oneness and harmony. If we start doing it now, there is hope that this century will be different from the previous one. It is in everybody's interest. So let us work for peace within our families and society, and not expect help from God, Buddha or the governments."
The Dalai Lama:
"The twentieth century was a violent one, and more than 200 million people died due to wars and other conflicts. We now see a spillover of the previous century's bloodshed in this century. If we emphasize more on non-violence and harmony, we can herald a new beginning. Unless we make serious attempts to achieve peace, we will continue to see a replay of the mayhem humanity experienced in the 20th century.
People want to lead a peaceful lives. The terrorists are short-sighted, and this is one of the causes of rampant suicide bombings. We cannot solve this problem only through prayers. I am a Buddhist and I believe in praying. But humans have created this problem, and now we are asking God to solve it. It is illogical. God would say, solve it yourself because you created it in the first place.
We need a systematic approach to foster humanistic values, of oneness and harmony. If we start doing it now, there is hope that this century will be different from the previous one. It is in everybody's interest. So let us work for peace within our families and society, and not expect help from God, Buddha or the governments."
12
No wonder the Dalai Lama commands such massive worldwide respect. Beautifully stated.
1
There are plenty of people that feel disenfranchised from society - yet do not commit Mass Murder...
... What we are seeing now all too often is Mass Murder used as a weapon by Islamic Terrorists...
Yes, Worldwide Islamic Terrorism - as defined by ISIS or Al Queda ...
No free Society can tolerate its citizens being "slaughtered" in their own countries in this manner.
That is correct, that in 2001 our Society & Government would never "tolerate" such a War being engaged against us..,
And whatever one thinks of George Bush, at least he took Military Action to defend the US...
As opposed to Barack Obama and the Liberal/Leftists who have "bent over backwards" to attempt to make apologetic excuses to out Enemies and attempt to Appease" America's Enemies while they shout "Death to America" and now slaughter Americans at home...
... What we are seeing now all too often is Mass Murder used as a weapon by Islamic Terrorists...
Yes, Worldwide Islamic Terrorism - as defined by ISIS or Al Queda ...
No free Society can tolerate its citizens being "slaughtered" in their own countries in this manner.
That is correct, that in 2001 our Society & Government would never "tolerate" such a War being engaged against us..,
And whatever one thinks of George Bush, at least he took Military Action to defend the US...
As opposed to Barack Obama and the Liberal/Leftists who have "bent over backwards" to attempt to make apologetic excuses to out Enemies and attempt to Appease" America's Enemies while they shout "Death to America" and now slaughter Americans at home...
7
But of course! How stupid of us liberals! If you want peace, make war!
8
How did that military action go anyway? It seems like the place where the action happened isn't doing all that well. Oh well.
5
True people who are disenfranchised do not commit Mass Murder.
It is also true that Islamic Terrorist have used Mass Murder as a weapon.
However it is also true that Islamic Terrorist are not alone in using violence
to achieve what they want.
What war are you referring to when you say a war being engaged against us.
ISIS is evil and should be destroyed but with that said ISIS has never attacked the USA and if we do not attack them they may never attack us.
It is also true that Islamic Terrorist have used Mass Murder as a weapon.
However it is also true that Islamic Terrorist are not alone in using violence
to achieve what they want.
What war are you referring to when you say a war being engaged against us.
ISIS is evil and should be destroyed but with that said ISIS has never attacked the USA and if we do not attack them they may never attack us.
1
I enjoy reading Mr. Cohen and his world view, his intelligence. But, his take on history is off. According to Mr. Cohen the U.S. was stronger in the past than I remember it. Does he not remember how often Reagan looked weak? How weak the U.S. looked during the marine barracks bombing in Beirut and so many other times?? All the past conflicts where the U.S. sat idyll and inept?? Inaction and incompetence are the rule, not the exception, of U.S. foreign policy.
12
And perhaps the millenials are today confronting similar forms of centrifugal forces undermining their integration into society as well-balanced and content productive adults. The historical resentment and mystical jive of the ISIS followers are potent sources of terroristic acts, but one should not underestimate the anomie affecting young adults today on a global basis.
I am quite content that I decided not to have children, for today's world offers fewer direction and a harsher reception from economic players who completly Hobbesian in outlook.
I am quite content that I decided not to have children, for today's world offers fewer direction and a harsher reception from economic players who completly Hobbesian in outlook.
4
While I agree with most of his analysis, I wish that he not describe this as US/ Europe vs these radicals. Lives are lost in other parts of the world too! Perhaps more have suffered in Africa and Asia due to these nihilistic ideas. We should condemn such violence as one world. All lives are precious. All sane people strive for freedom and peace. And anyone who opposes them should be condemned regardless where they live in the world - future street or Ratchaprasong intersection (Bangok).
2
It occurs to me that all this sanctifying of the stateless,lost,discarded moslem youth is truly overdone. Show me a culture where the a large fraction of the 18 to 30 year old population is not in revolt against their society,culture or political reality. I don't believe you will find one. The difference is that most cultures do not defend murder and mayhem as a way of life. Wahabis and other extremists do defend murder etc. The majority of the Muslim community is locked in fear over their murderous,callous brethren and do nothing. This results in a continuation of a 1400 year old war of ideologies. Enough excuses for the poor Muslim youth who kill thousands and terrorize millions. Time to take them on with the only weapons they understand; force and determination. As Franklin said. We stand together or die alone. Right now we are dying all by ourselves..
40
So, we have two major threads that precipitate the violence, one a native one in the Greater Middle East and parts of Africa that cries out for jihad as a unifying force for those who would impose hegemony over large groups of people and tracts of land; and another largely native one throughout the West that exploits the marginalized, giving them a sense of purpose they borrow from the others, usually when there is some ethnic link with those others. And we have a duality of thought about how to deal with the challenge: social, as in seeking to reduce marginalization and improve the interdictive effects of intelligence capabilities and policing; and, increasingly, militaristic, as in crusade – the muscular taking of the fight to its primary exponents, seeking to exterminate them as little more than Somali pirates.
Roger’s tone is sad and hopeless. I don’t see it that way. The world always was a cauldron of opposed and contending interests. Extreme Islamist jihadism clearly is a weed that can choke off more useful growth and needs to be cut back until its capacity to do that is manageable. The West can do this; and slowly, incrementally, it’s responding – aided importantly by Russia, symbolically but also importantly by France and Britain. Internally, Europe in particular will need to keep closer tabs on the usual suspects, and will need to dedicate serious resources to this job. Yet, while the need to do all this may be sad, it’s hardly hopeless.
Roger’s tone is sad and hopeless. I don’t see it that way. The world always was a cauldron of opposed and contending interests. Extreme Islamist jihadism clearly is a weed that can choke off more useful growth and needs to be cut back until its capacity to do that is manageable. The West can do this; and slowly, incrementally, it’s responding – aided importantly by Russia, symbolically but also importantly by France and Britain. Internally, Europe in particular will need to keep closer tabs on the usual suspects, and will need to dedicate serious resources to this job. Yet, while the need to do all this may be sad, it’s hardly hopeless.
6
Richard, if an ISIS true believer bent on exterminating anyone who does not totally share his religious beliefs has a listening that only instituting a worldwide Caliphate will satisfy him, what is left to deal with his violence but more violence? Unless we can change his mind, it's no wonder Westerners feel hopeless.
So, maybe the "answer" IS to prohibit Muslim immigration to Europe or North America. Why invite or otherwise encourage and welcome those who have no intention of joining, but, rather, destroying?
There are approximately 90 nations in the world that have Muslim majorities or a significant Muslim population.
The current wave of Muslim refugees is the result of centuries of Arab Muslim religious differences, discrimination and official Arab/Islamic government policy. It is an Islamic problem, not a European or North American one, with Arab roots and should be dealt with by Muslim Arabs.
There are approximately 90 nations in the world that have Muslim majorities or a significant Muslim population.
The current wave of Muslim refugees is the result of centuries of Arab Muslim religious differences, discrimination and official Arab/Islamic government policy. It is an Islamic problem, not a European or North American one, with Arab roots and should be dealt with by Muslim Arabs.
39
Most of the killers in Paris were francophone--French or Belgian. All they need is their discontent and the internet. The Tsarnev brothers were here legally and Maj. Hasan was/is a citizen.
Mr. Cohen presents half an idea. We have learned nothing from our foolish invasion of Iraq if we don't recognize that to decide on a course of action we must identify clear goals and assess risks.
ISIL is certainly a global terrorist threat, but isn't the only one. Defeating ISIL isn't defeating terrorism. No matter how noble our goals, in war things happen which can engender hatred and armed response. We can't shoot or bomb an "ideology", as Mr. Cohen suggests. How much more secure will we be if we commit ground troops to fight ISIL? Just who are we backing in that conflict? What's the extent of our commitment? Until there's peace in the Middle East? Are we trying to pacify and democratize an area; how has that worked so far?
Except for isolated terrorist activity, ISIL isn't a present threat outside its borders, and has its own internal problems.
I respect Mr. Cohen's views and agree that ISIL isn't a negligible threat, but am of the opinion that Obama's got it about right - we do what we must to contain them, and keep our options open.
ISIL is certainly a global terrorist threat, but isn't the only one. Defeating ISIL isn't defeating terrorism. No matter how noble our goals, in war things happen which can engender hatred and armed response. We can't shoot or bomb an "ideology", as Mr. Cohen suggests. How much more secure will we be if we commit ground troops to fight ISIL? Just who are we backing in that conflict? What's the extent of our commitment? Until there's peace in the Middle East? Are we trying to pacify and democratize an area; how has that worked so far?
Except for isolated terrorist activity, ISIL isn't a present threat outside its borders, and has its own internal problems.
I respect Mr. Cohen's views and agree that ISIL isn't a negligible threat, but am of the opinion that Obama's got it about right - we do what we must to contain them, and keep our options open.
4
Most people have failed to take an honest view of why they want to kill us. I suspect individuals have individual reasons for joining a radical cause, and that the original cause is not the individual cause. Once a movement begins, people join for a variety of reasons. They key is not to allow radical movements to gain momentum, because they can be difficult to stop.
Let us look in the mirror as a country. Certainly we did things we shouldn't have done in the middle east, and we've been doing them for at least 70 years. If we can't admit that then we can't ever understand the origins of this mess.
But worse than that, we now have a presidential candidate, Donald Trump, advocating terrorism to stop terrorism. Killing the families of terrorists is terrorism. If this kind of rhetoric is allowed to pass, this Republican party is much more dangerous than most people have believed. I always believed it to be dangerous. Very dangerous. Yes, genocidally dangerous.
Luckily Trump can't win the presidency despite the possibility that he'll win the nomination. I think and hope...
Let us look in the mirror as a country. Certainly we did things we shouldn't have done in the middle east, and we've been doing them for at least 70 years. If we can't admit that then we can't ever understand the origins of this mess.
But worse than that, we now have a presidential candidate, Donald Trump, advocating terrorism to stop terrorism. Killing the families of terrorists is terrorism. If this kind of rhetoric is allowed to pass, this Republican party is much more dangerous than most people have believed. I always believed it to be dangerous. Very dangerous. Yes, genocidally dangerous.
Luckily Trump can't win the presidency despite the possibility that he'll win the nomination. I think and hope...
5
Yes, many or even most of the handful of ISIS operatives involved in their terrorist operations in the West may well have been recruited from the ranks of the not-so-impoverished and not-so-marginalized. But I hope that Mr. Cohen isn't trying to infer that the overwhelming majority of the tens (potentially hundreds?) of thousands of present and future ISIS boots on the ground (taking and holding the territories from which this hydra extorts the funds which are its life's blood) have not embraced the jihadists' perversion of Islam out of poverty, marginalization, and the hopelessness of their circumstances.
1
Roger Cohen on November 14: "To defeat ISIS in Syria and Iraq will require NATO forces on the ground. After the protracted and inconclusive Western interventions in Iraq and Afghanistan, it is reasonable to ask if this would not be folly. It is also reasonable to demand – and many will – whether military action will only have the effect of winning more recruits for ISIS as more lives and treasure are squandered. Terrorism, the old nostrum has it, can never be completely defeated.
Such arguments are seductive but must be resisted."
Roger Cohen on December 3: "But the West will no longer deploy infantry against global Jihad. Nor will Arab states. That is a high-risk policy - too high, in my view."
I'm not so clear on how your view works. I'm all for thinking out loud but that's quite different from claiming to espouse a particular view. To summarize the above:
-NATO ground forces are required to defeat ISIS
--although it is reasonable to ask if such an idea is folly,
----any argument to that effect must be resisted
-deploying infantry against global jihad is too high-risk
Such arguments are seductive but must be resisted."
Roger Cohen on December 3: "But the West will no longer deploy infantry against global Jihad. Nor will Arab states. That is a high-risk policy - too high, in my view."
I'm not so clear on how your view works. I'm all for thinking out loud but that's quite different from claiming to espouse a particular view. To summarize the above:
-NATO ground forces are required to defeat ISIS
--although it is reasonable to ask if such an idea is folly,
----any argument to that effect must be resisted
-deploying infantry against global jihad is too high-risk
2
I'm with Terence.
The UK followed by the US , have humiliated Muslims in the Near East for over 150 years.
To erase a traumatic collective memory takes generations.
To erase a traumatic collective memory takes generations.
What Frank is saying is that instead of committing to live a Westernized life, these young people are being radicalized on the Web oe bt Caliphate screamers in the mosques.
If we have to Christianize immigrants to keep them from becoming desperate murderers, it means we'll or someone will have to teach Christianity to our immigrants, too. Immigrant communities did this until after WWII. I can hear the liberal screaming already.
If we have to Christianize immigrants to keep them from becoming desperate murderers, it means we'll or someone will have to teach Christianity to our immigrants, too. Immigrant communities did this until after WWII. I can hear the liberal screaming already.
5
God told Muhammad, they’d say; who told you?
1
Cohen suggests it is "the humiliation of purposelessness. It’s a quest for respect," that somehow explains terrorism. Putting aside the fact that many, indeed almost all, people and groups seek respect and have to deal with all manner of humiliation from time to time and yet do not become terrorists, maybe someone can point out to Muslims who think this way, that they would be far more respected if they behaved differently.
Ending the honor killings, internecine religious warfare, religiously motivated violence and terror, glorification and celebration of murderers and terrorists, repression of women, other religions etc. etc. would do way more to gain respect.
Oh, and maybe be productive citizens of the world and places you live in too.
Ending the honor killings, internecine religious warfare, religiously motivated violence and terror, glorification and celebration of murderers and terrorists, repression of women, other religions etc. etc. would do way more to gain respect.
Oh, and maybe be productive citizens of the world and places you live in too.
13
Too much philosophizing and half baked analysis looking for a punchline closing in this. Let's catch the criminals. To the victim, this constant parsing of motivations, some justifiable some not, doesnt matter if their loved ones are killed. If it's a jihadist, a gang member, a crazy white male, a loner with guns, a freedom militia man, it doesn't matter. Lets catch the criminals before they committ their dastardly acts. Lets stop grouping people into profiles, since they tell us nothing about the newest murderer to crop up, or at a minimum, lets leave that to the people whose business it is to take care of us.
4
I wonder if the "humiliation" referenced by the jihadi is the conflict between his understanding of Islam and modernity. To a great degree, the ideology and mindset that has produced industrialization and global prosperity is greatly at odds with the tenets of Islam as determined by many Islamists. We seek to develop all our talent, including the 50%+ who are female. Meritocracy requires being open for everyone's contribution. Pursuit of truth requires freedom of speech and inquiry. That liberty that allows each to pursue his own dreams also allows that to be diverted into less morally salutatory channels.
If someone saw himself first as Muslim as defined by fundamentalist Islamism, much of that would be reprehensible. Yet life is comfortable, especially in comparison to those societies from which Islamism hails. Perhaps the "humiliation" is the juxtaposition of the material success of a society whose tenets defy those of the Islamist. Perhaps it is that, if one perceives oneself to be morally superior, that such is not only not recognized but rejected entirely. In which case, you reject the material superiority to assert your own moral ascendancy. And what could constitute more total rejection of the former and assertion of the latter than to run off to ISIS and attack via jihad?
If someone saw himself first as Muslim as defined by fundamentalist Islamism, much of that would be reprehensible. Yet life is comfortable, especially in comparison to those societies from which Islamism hails. Perhaps the "humiliation" is the juxtaposition of the material success of a society whose tenets defy those of the Islamist. Perhaps it is that, if one perceives oneself to be morally superior, that such is not only not recognized but rejected entirely. In which case, you reject the material superiority to assert your own moral ascendancy. And what could constitute more total rejection of the former and assertion of the latter than to run off to ISIS and attack via jihad?
9
Mr. Cohen is allowing himself to muse aloud with somewhat airy irony, and to substitute vague notions such as "humiliation of purposelessness" for an informed accounting of such middle class purposelessness, even in the one case of Abaaoud. Cohen has been an often brilliant and historically and personally informed source of provocative and helpful insights into our ever new world. It would be presumptuous to guess what draws him into these earnest but unanchored generalizations. We can only pair our continued admiration with the hope that his long attachment to meticulous reality will
overcome the temptation to meet anguish with this sort of floating intellectual exercise. Feet on the ground, please. We need you there.
overcome the temptation to meet anguish with this sort of floating intellectual exercise. Feet on the ground, please. We need you there.
2
How about terror on America's present streets. As in what just happened in California. 12 pipe bombs found in their home. Just back from Saudi Arabia. Connections to extremists and terrorists. Preparation for months. Style of attack imitating Paris. But we mustn't name it. Workplace violence? Gun violence? How can we address the problem if we are so afraid to admit it? We don't have absolute proof of motive yet, but why is there this sense from liberal quarters of "anything but," this desperate refusal to see likely reality as it is? Cognitive dissonance will not protect us.
35
For liberals to admit a mistake they would than have to address the original decision to ignore the deep roots of fundamentalist hate in the Koran and expressed by so many Saudi-funded Imams. I think they honestly thought that Mr. Obama was going to figure out a way they wouldn't have to face this. Oops.
10
Admit a mistake? How about those famous "weapons of mass destruction?"
Have yet to hear from Condi, W, Rumsfeld, Cheney, etc or any of their supporters that *they* made a "mistake."
And you, Fair Verona, anything you care to "admit?"
Have yet to hear from Condi, W, Rumsfeld, Cheney, etc or any of their supporters that *they* made a "mistake."
And you, Fair Verona, anything you care to "admit?"
4
Yes, how about the terror on America's present streets and schools and workplaces and health clinics? The latest atrocity looks like jihad, a major Islamist terrorist movement that originated in Saudi Arabia's Wahabi version of Islam. Your turn. What about the domestic terrorists here. Where is the anti abortion rhetoric coming from? Who was the "religious" man who perpetrated the Planned Parenthood slaughter in Colorado? Hint: not a Muslim jihaddist. How can we address the problem of domestic terrorism if we won't admit it?
Both kinds of terrorist embrace violence in the service of a Cause and are willing to sacrifice their life to kill. Based on the principles our country was founded on you must fight both and win. But we are compromised by our allies and by trying to use the terrorists, which is folly. In the ME our allies Saudi Arabia and Pakistan fund Jihad and/or promote it. We funded and armed the Taliban initially and armed the wrong "moderates" in Syria. In the USA the problem allies include religious fundamentalists plus the NRA and in general the money flooding elections. Why court voters when political ads work so well? Forget "the peole".
Both kinds of terrorist embrace violence in the service of a Cause and are willing to sacrifice their life to kill. Based on the principles our country was founded on you must fight both and win. But we are compromised by our allies and by trying to use the terrorists, which is folly. In the ME our allies Saudi Arabia and Pakistan fund Jihad and/or promote it. We funded and armed the Taliban initially and armed the wrong "moderates" in Syria. In the USA the problem allies include religious fundamentalists plus the NRA and in general the money flooding elections. Why court voters when political ads work so well? Forget "the peole".
"Abaaoud urged Muslims to shake off a “humiliating life” in Europe and find “pride and honor” in their religion and in jihad."
It's all about the special sorcery of Islamism inextricably entwined with a belief in eternal life in paradise after death.
When death is revered more than life a whole new paradigm shift in what happiness and fulfillment represent is created.
Mass suicide bombing is a totally unique Islamic phenomenon and is unstoppable without totally eradicating the resources of the coordinators of this existential threat.
It's all about the special sorcery of Islamism inextricably entwined with a belief in eternal life in paradise after death.
When death is revered more than life a whole new paradigm shift in what happiness and fulfillment represent is created.
Mass suicide bombing is a totally unique Islamic phenomenon and is unstoppable without totally eradicating the resources of the coordinators of this existential threat.
73
First recorded suicide bombing is by Russian terrorist Ignaty Grinevisky in 1881.
The government of Imperial Japan launched more than 3,000 human bombs—known more properly as the Tokkotai, short for Tokubetsu Kogekitai (special attack units)—against American naval forces during the last year of World War II.
First suicide bombing against a western target in the Middle East happened in October 1983 when terrorists attacked US marines' barracks in Lebanon
The government of Imperial Japan launched more than 3,000 human bombs—known more properly as the Tokkotai, short for Tokubetsu Kogekitai (special attack units)—against American naval forces during the last year of World War II.
First suicide bombing against a western target in the Middle East happened in October 1983 when terrorists attacked US marines' barracks in Lebanon
No other actual religion does this. The other religions mentioning an afterlife include a peaceful way of reaching it, but Mohamed needed bloodthirsty killers and robbers, so he designed his system to require a death in battle to get you to Valhalla or whatever.
You then lock that system in place by not having an international system of training for the local holy men and no arrangement for such people to police each other.
You then lock that system in place by not having an international system of training for the local holy men and no arrangement for such people to police each other.
4
Shiveh,
A military barracks is a legitimate target. It is not terrorism to attack a military barracks anymore than it is terrorism to attack a battleship.
A military barracks is a legitimate target. It is not terrorism to attack a military barracks anymore than it is terrorism to attack a battleship.
It is obvious that Islamic immigrants are not happy in their new environment. However, it appears that they are not so much interested in their own happiness, but rather in causing unhappiness to others.
You do not fight for your idealogic and physical lives by allowing your enemy in your house. Close borders and deport those who criminally exhibit their unhappiness.
You do not fight for your idealogic and physical lives by allowing your enemy in your house. Close borders and deport those who criminally exhibit their unhappiness.
29
Well, isn't this exactly what the Palestinians want to do with all the Jewish immigrants to Israel that was their land for over 1000 years?
The ideology behind Islamic Jihad is 14 centuries old. It lost its usefulness many centuries ago and it is awakened now not as a cause but as a weapon with the ability to concentrate and direct a destructive force.
Arabs have been constantly humiliated since mid last century. The events of the last 15 years have gone beyond the limit that some can tolerate. They are responding . They are using Islamic ideology because it is most convenient and more effective.
A Moroccan boy, born and raised in Europe, becomes a terrorist after hearing about too many Abu Ghraibs, not because he has discovered an ancient ideological need to kill people.
Arabs have been constantly humiliated since mid last century. The events of the last 15 years have gone beyond the limit that some can tolerate. They are responding . They are using Islamic ideology because it is most convenient and more effective.
A Moroccan boy, born and raised in Europe, becomes a terrorist after hearing about too many Abu Ghraibs, not because he has discovered an ancient ideological need to kill people.
3
If this continues there will come a point where native Europeans will strike back with vengeance against immigrant populations.
8
It has already begun in Germany. Refugees hostels are being fire-bombed on almost a daily basis, and there is great concern that this is only the beginning...
True. But not whole story. Material reality does influence culture and shape its political expression. Desert cultures where human habitation is marginal tend toward a zero sum ethos -- if you have more, I will have less. Likewise history shapes culture. The two largest Muslim countries -- India and Indonesia -- while not immune to the Salafist toxin spread by primitive tribal cultures in the Middle East have a different history and are on a different path. But when it comes to he Maghreb and Levant we should not be under any illusion, they will not be peaceful any time soon.
5
It is western ideals and values that are threatening fundamentalist Islam.Osama Bin Ladin talked about this years ago. All fundamentalist religions have this problem with individual freedom.With the ability to chose who we become.To think for ourselves.Those drawn to religious fundamentalism seek certainty in an increasingly uncertain life.This is why young people in particular are drawn to the jihadist cause.But enlightenment values are seeping into the middle east and they will eventually prevail there as long as we don't try and force these values at the point of a gun.It will take time and innocent lives will be lost but,in the long rum, it will be worth it. And,,,we have to stop profiting by provided more and more weapons to these fundamentalist crazies.
8
Your words:
"It’s the humiliation of purposelessness. It’s a quest for respect" - are so true.
Young people - particularly young men - everywhere and in every century try to break away from their parents and establish themselves in society, with families and a position of their own. Human society is, at it core, no different from that of our Primate cousins in this regard.
As societies fragment and economies globalise so that security of establishment, a good living wage and community support and respect are no longer available, young men cast around to find a society/btotherhood that recognises and respects them. The street-gangs of most major cities fulfil this purpose for many, the uber-gang of ISIS/Daesh fulfils it for many Muslim kids, the US army fulfils it for many poor kids in America, the LRA for kids in Uganda.
Weapons give all these group-followers the power they need to feel 'respected', and the terrorising of those they can bully with their weapons gives them a sense that they are untouchable and have achieved alpha-male status.
We are social animals in a stressed society. Violence and terror are the entirely predictable outcomes.
"It’s the humiliation of purposelessness. It’s a quest for respect" - are so true.
Young people - particularly young men - everywhere and in every century try to break away from their parents and establish themselves in society, with families and a position of their own. Human society is, at it core, no different from that of our Primate cousins in this regard.
As societies fragment and economies globalise so that security of establishment, a good living wage and community support and respect are no longer available, young men cast around to find a society/btotherhood that recognises and respects them. The street-gangs of most major cities fulfil this purpose for many, the uber-gang of ISIS/Daesh fulfils it for many Muslim kids, the US army fulfils it for many poor kids in America, the LRA for kids in Uganda.
Weapons give all these group-followers the power they need to feel 'respected', and the terrorising of those they can bully with their weapons gives them a sense that they are untouchable and have achieved alpha-male status.
We are social animals in a stressed society. Violence and terror are the entirely predictable outcomes.
2
Roger Cohen identifies exaggerated notions of humiliation as an essential element for nihilistic jihadi activity, and then proceeds to subtly suggest that our current leadership (which is always and only President Obama) isn't "man enough" to send in the troops and shoot the bad guys down. Doesn't that demonstrate an implicit admiration for the jihadis' beliefs?
4
Yeah, let's just reduce this to a simple rationale, and address all the actors in this complex web as if they are motivated by the same simple formula. Great for messaging. Disastrous for actually affecting the situation. The dumbing down (again) of civic discourse. Playing the blame game so we can ignore our own responsibility.
Middle East Islaamic cultures are not compatible with modern western civilization, and most likely never wii be. European colonization in the 18-19th centuries set the wheels in motion for present day radical Islamism. Every western incursion since has just made things worse. ISIS and broader Muslim sponsored terrorism are like the steam jiggling the weight on top of a pressure cooker. We can't take the top off the cooker without releasing an explosion of violence into the world. Meanwhile the bubbling cauldron provides Russia and others ample opportunities to wage proxy wars to further their national goals. The alternative to the status quo may very well be world war. The status quo is better.
I am not convinced. Mr. Cohen makes a number of unqualified statements about the motives of terroists, but does not explain how he comes to this conclusion. The fact that a particular area in Brussels is a nice place to live does not therefore imply that there is not discrimination, or other factors that can motivate a person to become a terrorist. The fact that often connected groups of people are radicalized suggests that there are group dynamics and social factors that lead to radicalization. The west's wars in the middle east/afghanistan serve as motivation for radicalization: humiliation aside, the killing of numerous civilians likely angers more than a few. (As does the hypocrisy: If Muslims kill people who invade their country, they are denounced as terrorists, where as the invaders who kill numerous civilians as part of an unjustified invasion (Iraq, where there are estimates of 100,000 + killed) are considered heros.) In addition, the majority of pious Muslims are not radicalized. So I don't think that Mr. Cohen has really made his case here, and while it feels good to simplify the cause of radicalization, it is dangerous as well, as it is very difficult to combat what you don't understand.
2
Where is the evidence that these intelligent, educated individuals are humiliated or have had their pride and honor stripped away? These are individuals with brains, talent and successful potential.
Growing into an adult and finding a place in the world is not easy for most people. It is not humiliation but the infection of religious ideology which turns the normal exigencies of adult development into a religious/narcissistic insult that must be avenged.
To counter that ideology, school curricula, from elementary school onward, need to include education about cults, the dangers of absolutist ideology and the logical reasoning skills to question authoritarian solutions to social problems.
Schools also need to prepare students for the fact that life can be tough; they need to be taught good assertiveness skills, good communication, the ability to handle difficult people, and tolerance.
Finally, we need to wake up to the fact that intelligence per se, does not decrease susceptibility to violent religious or political indoctrination. Rational thought and violent fanaticism occupy different parts of the human brain. Unless we teach each student the skills to avoid falling prey to these philosophical cancers, they may hear only the violent and primitive call of the fanatic; a call that evokes their animal heredity, not the higher level brain functions which elevate our species to achieve introspection and cooperation.
Growing into an adult and finding a place in the world is not easy for most people. It is not humiliation but the infection of religious ideology which turns the normal exigencies of adult development into a religious/narcissistic insult that must be avenged.
To counter that ideology, school curricula, from elementary school onward, need to include education about cults, the dangers of absolutist ideology and the logical reasoning skills to question authoritarian solutions to social problems.
Schools also need to prepare students for the fact that life can be tough; they need to be taught good assertiveness skills, good communication, the ability to handle difficult people, and tolerance.
Finally, we need to wake up to the fact that intelligence per se, does not decrease susceptibility to violent religious or political indoctrination. Rational thought and violent fanaticism occupy different parts of the human brain. Unless we teach each student the skills to avoid falling prey to these philosophical cancers, they may hear only the violent and primitive call of the fanatic; a call that evokes their animal heredity, not the higher level brain functions which elevate our species to achieve introspection and cooperation.
55
Why are we demanding that the Islam reforms itself while providing all the tools radicals need to push it in the opposite direction. We have been engaged in war in the middle east for 14 years now, 24 if you count the first gulf war and various bombings under Clinton. We have demonized the Muslims among us as the other forcing many to find identity in societies thousands of miles away. And yet we expect and demand that our own lives continue as if nothing is out of the ordinary: we want our birthdays and soccer practices, our sales and big screen TVs. We need to wake up, pain and suffering are universal and the world keeps getting smaller. Our best defense against radicals is to not give them the content for their propaganda.
21
And why did an Islamic army invade the Buddhist university of Nalanda, destroy the buildings and kill the Buddhist monks? What had the monks done to them? Nothing - the monks were non-violent as the Buddha taught them to be.
Are you the sort of person who, when met by a mugger who says, "Your money or your life" say to yourself, "I must have done something to him. I wonder what it was that justified his holding me up."
If you want to put yourself in danger, be my guest and go to ISIS and apologize for what the West has done to them. But for heaven's sake do not promote actions, like a naïve immigration policy, which puts others in your country in danger.
Are you the sort of person who, when met by a mugger who says, "Your money or your life" say to yourself, "I must have done something to him. I wonder what it was that justified his holding me up."
If you want to put yourself in danger, be my guest and go to ISIS and apologize for what the West has done to them. But for heaven's sake do not promote actions, like a naïve immigration policy, which puts others in your country in danger.
1
Slights humiliation discrimination neither justify or explain the terrorist attack by radical Islamists. Consider in China: both Buddhist Tibetans and Muslim uighurs face oppression from the majority Han Chinese, but only one group has committed terrorist acts. You also don't see Mexican undocumented migrants in the United States committing terrorist acts despite facing similar discrimination in this society.
3
Yet.
1
I don't think blaming terrorism on the "humiliation of purposelessness" is right. I am sure there are many purposeless people who do not carry arms and kill others. This is an issue with extremist interpretations of Islam which are exported by Saudi Arabia (and other Gulf countries) and taught around the world. Pushing back on this brand of Islam is where the ideological war ought to be fought in addition to actually fighting ISIS on the ground
21
Yes, but Moderate Muslims like you have to lead the fight and the first thing you need to do is to scold the United States of America which is the single force which has allowed Saudi Arabia to spread its influence all over the world.
It is still not clear from this article - is Mr Cohen finally convinced that sending thousands of US troops into ISIS territory is a stupid idea? If the French want to send 50,000 French troops there, that is OK with us (maybe Mr Cohen can join the Foreign Legion and participate).
The best thing to do is to protect our Homeland (with good intelligence and security measures) and wait for ISIS to implode in theirs - there is no need to sacrifice more American lives.
The best thing to do is to protect our Homeland (with good intelligence and security measures) and wait for ISIS to implode in theirs - there is no need to sacrifice more American lives.
December 3, 2015
Yet for ISIS the world is a quantum matrix of information universal – and all is local – thus we have the shrinking of old history for the postmodern world of youth everywhere will shape the spiral journey for light, and its more perfect union –and what better place to start that Paris, France the jewel of humanism and love of brotherly and sisterly living well..
To quote – T. S. Eliot - FOUR QUARTETS
'Time present and time past
Are both perhaps present in time future
And time future contained in time past.”
Damascus must be its true light emulating liberty in a sharing world.
JJA Manhattan. N.Y.
Yet for ISIS the world is a quantum matrix of information universal – and all is local – thus we have the shrinking of old history for the postmodern world of youth everywhere will shape the spiral journey for light, and its more perfect union –and what better place to start that Paris, France the jewel of humanism and love of brotherly and sisterly living well..
To quote – T. S. Eliot - FOUR QUARTETS
'Time present and time past
Are both perhaps present in time future
And time future contained in time past.”
Damascus must be its true light emulating liberty in a sharing world.
JJA Manhattan. N.Y.
1
Dear Roger,
I as a Jew can almost emphasize with Abaaoud.a minority living in a homogenous Society, where you just don't fit in, & in order to survive you stay within your comfort zone of religion, & customs. You seethe at the bigotry that seems to engulf you, you want to join the mainstream, but you just can't climb that wall that keeps growing.Then along comes ISIS that seems to give you a purpose & pride in who you are, your young and idealistic, and you rush into the arms of extremists, who seem to give your life a purpose. Here is where Abaasoud & I differ,I look to accomplishment as a means for acceptance, it's what my Jewish culture imbedded in me. Apparently,Abaaoud Culture called for Jihadist revenge.
I as a Jew can almost emphasize with Abaaoud.a minority living in a homogenous Society, where you just don't fit in, & in order to survive you stay within your comfort zone of religion, & customs. You seethe at the bigotry that seems to engulf you, you want to join the mainstream, but you just can't climb that wall that keeps growing.Then along comes ISIS that seems to give you a purpose & pride in who you are, your young and idealistic, and you rush into the arms of extremists, who seem to give your life a purpose. Here is where Abaasoud & I differ,I look to accomplishment as a means for acceptance, it's what my Jewish culture imbedded in me. Apparently,Abaaoud Culture called for Jihadist revenge.
3
It's neither ideology nor faith nor justice, the Islamic State or similar terror groups are fighting for, but to have a territory and people under their control to be governed by the medievalist code and personal command with accountability to none. It's this paradox between the modern aspirations of people and the medievalist manners of the Islamic State that presents an explosive situation which is beyond the capacity of the terror group to manage in the long run, and bound to explode pushing the Islamic State to sidelines. Else, the internal rivalry between the group leadership would weaken and decimate the terror outfit in near future.
4
I disagree. Just what is "the humiliation of purposelessness"? So this another attempt to blame Western Civilization for this man's murders? What about the thousands - probably millions - who remain in Muslim cultures who willingly turn to murder and worse?
34
I don't see it as blaming western civilization. One of the main tenets of western life is that you make of the world what you want too. Society does not provide you purpose, you must find your own goals and reasoning structures. These men seem to desire strict codes that control all aspects of their life. That in itself seems reprehensible to me as they willingly rob themselves of the ability to think critically. These men who grow up inside of western civilization reject the very essence of that civilization.
1
Humiliation is a key motivator in the Islamic world. Their ideology teaches them that they are superior to everyone else. They are taught that Islam is the pinnacle of all religion, and none will ever supersede it. Of course the Muslims are not stupid, and they can see that the 57 Muslim countries are way behind the "inferior" west in every category; economics, science, health, and most importantly, militarily. This increases their feelings of humiliation.
The soul of the Muslim world, the 22 Arab countries, can't even defeat tiny Israel in battle. Talk about loss of manhood. That is why the Palestinians will never accept peace proposals from the Israelis. They don't want land given to them, they want to re-fight the wars they lost, and this time win them. They want to avenge their humiliation.
The soul of the Muslim world, the 22 Arab countries, can't even defeat tiny Israel in battle. Talk about loss of manhood. That is why the Palestinians will never accept peace proposals from the Israelis. They don't want land given to them, they want to re-fight the wars they lost, and this time win them. They want to avenge their humiliation.
73
Refight the wars they lost? Insanity is defined as doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
1
Enough with the "humiliation" analysis.
If Palestinians act violently against Israeli atrocities, it's all about "humiliation."
If some lunatic Muslim in Europe slaughters dozens, it's again just "humiliation."
Give Muslims some credit!
Is it "humiliation" that drives the daily killings of 4+ people in America?
Is it "humiliation" that led to the litany of abuses by American soldiers in Iraq (including the rape of an early teen girl, then the murder of her and her family, and setting of their home on fire) or our FBI/CIA in "water boarding" and other torture?
With most of the above being gleefully carried out by white Christian men (with the occasional Jew or woman thrown in).
There are a lot of crazy people in the world.
Some of them are Muslims.
Some of them are white Christians.
Some of them are Jews.
Some of them are something else.
"Humiliation" is not what makes crazy people crazy.
Don't cart it out every time there is terrorism involving Muslims as a somehow "complete" explanation of matters.
Especially when "humiliation" is virtually never brought out in discussing any of the other innumerable lunatics and the terror they inflict on our world.
If you want to explain what drives some Muslims to act violently, do so just how you would explain violent Christians, violent Jews or any others.
"Oh he had an anger problem?" Well, maybe some Muslims do too!
If Palestinians act violently against Israeli atrocities, it's all about "humiliation."
If some lunatic Muslim in Europe slaughters dozens, it's again just "humiliation."
Give Muslims some credit!
Is it "humiliation" that drives the daily killings of 4+ people in America?
Is it "humiliation" that led to the litany of abuses by American soldiers in Iraq (including the rape of an early teen girl, then the murder of her and her family, and setting of their home on fire) or our FBI/CIA in "water boarding" and other torture?
With most of the above being gleefully carried out by white Christian men (with the occasional Jew or woman thrown in).
There are a lot of crazy people in the world.
Some of them are Muslims.
Some of them are white Christians.
Some of them are Jews.
Some of them are something else.
"Humiliation" is not what makes crazy people crazy.
Don't cart it out every time there is terrorism involving Muslims as a somehow "complete" explanation of matters.
Especially when "humiliation" is virtually never brought out in discussing any of the other innumerable lunatics and the terror they inflict on our world.
If you want to explain what drives some Muslims to act violently, do so just how you would explain violent Christians, violent Jews or any others.
"Oh he had an anger problem?" Well, maybe some Muslims do too!
1
"ISIS is working on the means to make the carnage in Paris look modest..." Thank you for pointing this out. The longer the Western World has summits to discuss ISIS and simultaneously promises those barbarians that they will never have to fear Western fighters on the ground, which in many experts' minds is the ONLY way to recover ground - geographically and politically - the closer we come to a catastrophe of apocalyptic proportions. Sorry for the hyperbole, but it is well known that ISIS is actively shopping around for WMDs. It is also known that rogue arms dealers and sympathizers in dark corners of our planet are willing to collaborate with ISIS to get them dirty bombs, poison gas, and similar WMDs. Our intelligence services, here and in Europe, have not inspired our full trust in them to intercept a large scale attack. ISIS has been clear about their goals: to bring the world back into the 7th century, to eliminate non-believers and establish Sharia from Rome to Washington. Without a coalition of determined fighters on the ground ISIS will never be "contained" or rooted out.
4
I would agree with your conclusion as to what flips a Muslim off Future Street -- in fact, the paragraph is brilliant! So, what leads to the humiliation? Would it be the West's culture of placing one man, any man, above another, leading to the mentioned? My niece, a beautiful girl raised in a home not flush with money, now teaches a foreign language in a private school. She would never tell an outsider, but having been raised in her modest home, she finds most of the snobbish students (our future) appalling. Her father, would say, "you talk about some self-centered sons-a...!"
1
The terrorists whom Cohen describes clearly do not identify with the western nation where they live, even if, in many cases, it is their country of birth. The liberal philosophy dominant throughout the west, with its emphasis on individual freedom and fulfillment, means little, in fact generates anxiety, if not anchored in a strong sense of community.
If young people cannot find that sense of belonging in their homeland, many will seek it elsewhere, in the ME, and will gladly abandon adherence to liberalism for the sake of membership in a tight-knit group that appears to care about them.
From the perspective of the U.S., this analysis implies that hostility to our Muslim citizens, many of whom have lived here for generations, not only violates basic American values, but also splits our society in ways that could cause real harm. We already produce a significant number of alienated individuals, a tiny proportion of whom have created our current epidemic of mass shootings.
If we are to remain the open society that expresses our innate optimism, we cannot yield to the prejudice and paranoia that, so often in the past, jeopardized the existence of that society. A sense of security is vital, but we cannot achieve it by subjecting an entire segment of our society to the suspicion and mistreatment advocated by the likes of Trump and Carson. Unjustified fear and anger never lead to behaviors with good outcomes.
If young people cannot find that sense of belonging in their homeland, many will seek it elsewhere, in the ME, and will gladly abandon adherence to liberalism for the sake of membership in a tight-knit group that appears to care about them.
From the perspective of the U.S., this analysis implies that hostility to our Muslim citizens, many of whom have lived here for generations, not only violates basic American values, but also splits our society in ways that could cause real harm. We already produce a significant number of alienated individuals, a tiny proportion of whom have created our current epidemic of mass shootings.
If we are to remain the open society that expresses our innate optimism, we cannot yield to the prejudice and paranoia that, so often in the past, jeopardized the existence of that society. A sense of security is vital, but we cannot achieve it by subjecting an entire segment of our society to the suspicion and mistreatment advocated by the likes of Trump and Carson. Unjustified fear and anger never lead to behaviors with good outcomes.
1
A clash of civilizations?.......impossible to reconcile without a return to the age old cure of a trip to the ideological 'killing fields' of mass delusion?
It would seem that the 'lesson learned' is to integrate sooner rather than later.
Maybe next time.
It would seem that the 'lesson learned' is to integrate sooner rather than later.
Maybe next time.
1
Mr. Cohen writes beautifully, whether one likes the message or not.
5
The West is not "decadent". It is decadent.
Roger Cohen's one sentence captures it all - "It's the humiliation of purposelessness".
We tried infantry recently in our quarrel with Iraq. That's how we got ISIS and a failed Iraqi state. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Who is going to occupy Mesopotamia after the shooting stops, temporarily, and keep ISIS from coming back? Boys from Saudi Arabia? Boys from the Netherlands in blue United Nations helmets? Great idea--let's send infantry. We'll sort the rest out later.
2
OK you say it is an ideology and must be fought on that level. But what do we do about the excessive role that journalists themselves play in blowing up ISIS into some huge threat, thereby enabling them? How many hundreds and thousands of under-employed journalists and editorial writers are out there, actually? I never hear any journalists soberly analyzing ISIS as a military group. Actually they don't hold any important territory, right? They hold a number of small towns along the highway that runs through the huge desert that comprises most of the central area of Syria, and the media gives them credit for holding the empty desert as well! There are bigger forces operating in Syria, and killing more people every day too. True, ISIS carries out lots of gory executions and gets them out onto the internet, but other groups kill more people, so is it the getting it onto the internet that really counts? Don't journalists have a lot of stake in helping smart groups like ISIS exist in our minds way beyond what they actually are?
1
First of all. ISIS is a threat. And a very real one. And they are also one of the "bigger forces operating in Syria" that are killing people in the most gruesome ways imaginable. Yes. The media is focusing on these kind of activities, but don't forget, 'excess' is the main ingredient in the terrorist handbook.
You say that "other groups kill more people". That may be true, but they're obviously not doing it in a way that grabs the world's attention. Lucky us.
You say that "other groups kill more people". That may be true, but they're obviously not doing it in a way that grabs the world's attention. Lucky us.
1
Our mind, a wondrous child of the brain, still a mystery in spite of our incipient knowledge via fMRI plus neuropsychology, imagination blended with memory, and our behavior according to the circumstances at hand, seems like a slippery fish we are trying to hold in our hands. Past humiliations, no matter how impersonal, may play a role in a society and culture different from the one our family has grown accustomed to. And feeling marginalized, with no job, a sense of subjective discrimination may be all that is required to embrace a faith-based ideology, no matter how rigid or cruel, if it offers redemption from an 'empty life'. Erich Fromm's "Escape from Liberty" shows the need, for some, to join the army so to have somebody tell them what to do; and radical Islam, utilizing persuasive language, has been able to attract these lost souls, and empower them. It behooves us to counter this stratagem by a strong policy of inclusion and assigning youth the vital contribution expected from them, so to revitalize our social democracy.
2
The United States, like many European nations, has immigrant Muslim communities. Yet, a much larger percentage of European Muslims than American Muslims are drawn to jihadism. Why is this? The obvious answer is that racism toward people of Middle Eastern or North African descent is much more pervasive in Europe. Probably a majority of Europeans have racist attitudes toward people from the other side of the Mediterranean. I have lived in Europe and seen this. People with Arab, Turkish, or Berber backgrounds in Europe face constant discrimination in employment and in interactions with officialdom, and they face frequent slights and humiliation in their daily lives ranging from rudeness to harassment.
The most effective way for Europeans to defuse the jihadist threat in their backyards is to look within themselves, recognize their own exclusionary attitudes, and to act with fairness and respect toward all of their neighbors, regardless of their background.
The most effective way for Europeans to defuse the jihadist threat in their backyards is to look within themselves, recognize their own exclusionary attitudes, and to act with fairness and respect toward all of their neighbors, regardless of their background.
2
You are probably right, but you've just stirred up a real hornet's nest, Mark. Sit back and start waiting for the irate responses from the other side of the Atlantic, and some from right here at home.
"Fairness" and "Respect" works both ways. There are clearly differences between these cultures, and many of these differences are difficult to reconcile. If people coming from Arab, Turkish, etc. backgrounds are unable (or unwilling) to assimilate into the European societies where they find themselves living, it is hardly surprising that they will feel discriminated against and marginalized.
3
We can look within ourselves and we'll find the simple fact that Europe is made of nation states. You might hold a philosophical grudge against nation states, you might try to prove that *in fact* it is not so, because there are a lot of immigrants in country A or B, or because tracking the historical roots of some peoples somehow shows inherent European diversity. But that won't change the fact that some form of cultural and linguistic homogeneity, and yes, sometimes even religious one, is a corner stone and a principle of virtually every single European democracy. Is it better that the American principled commitment to diversity? I have no idea. Probably not, from a purely rational perspective. But to flippantly advocate (I'm not saying you're doing it, I'm just saying that this view might push one to advocate it) that Europe changes because incoming people feel alienated is irresponsible. How would you even change that? What would happen if you did? If democratic trust and cohesion are predicated on similarity of not just meta-values, but cultural traits, calling for American type of liberalization would be dangerous — if it weren't hopeless in the first place.
This was mainly a useless op-ed. Mr. Cohen touched on the fact that there is a ideological underpinning to the jihadist threat but only really danced at its edge by naming it Sunni and a "bastard child" of Turkey and Saudi Arabia. After alluding to how great the threat is he offers no solution.
At a global level, what this essay should have focused on is how to identify, combat and minimize the ideological issue -- which is a Sunni, Salafist form of Islam that is the full child - not the bastard child of the Saudi funded and exported Wahhabist dogma.
To repeat - rather than debating whether each attacker is Islamic or not - we should open our eyes and use the terminology that they themselves use. They are Islamic but they represent a single and very specific sect. The Sunni Salafists. It is not likely to be a coincidence that the San Barnadino shooter went to Saudi Arabia and is a Sunni, Salafist. Every single major terror attack on the West, from 9-11 to London to Boston to Paris share that commonality.
Let's call out the Saudi (and other Gulf States) funded dogma that is underpinning both ISIS and the terrorists who attack us. Let's focus on discrediting that dogma as an acceptable one to practice in the west. Let's not blame Sufi and other Muslims and in fact, let's engage them to help with this effort. We cannot fight an ideology without understanding and identifying it.
At a global level, what this essay should have focused on is how to identify, combat and minimize the ideological issue -- which is a Sunni, Salafist form of Islam that is the full child - not the bastard child of the Saudi funded and exported Wahhabist dogma.
To repeat - rather than debating whether each attacker is Islamic or not - we should open our eyes and use the terminology that they themselves use. They are Islamic but they represent a single and very specific sect. The Sunni Salafists. It is not likely to be a coincidence that the San Barnadino shooter went to Saudi Arabia and is a Sunni, Salafist. Every single major terror attack on the West, from 9-11 to London to Boston to Paris share that commonality.
Let's call out the Saudi (and other Gulf States) funded dogma that is underpinning both ISIS and the terrorists who attack us. Let's focus on discrediting that dogma as an acceptable one to practice in the west. Let's not blame Sufi and other Muslims and in fact, let's engage them to help with this effort. We cannot fight an ideology without understanding and identifying it.
58
What Mr Cohen is demanding here is that having had a good life in Europe those of non European origin, meaning primarily emigrants of Arab and /or Moslem origin should forget all about their roots, cultural legacy and identity and their "religion" , enjoy the good life Europe gave them, as emigrants or descendants of emigrants !
It is not only an unmistakeable advocacy of non equality and of a truncated and restrained social / political life but primarily a reminder of their foreignness and a warning as to what it may lead to.
The demand, in principle, is totally untenable in ordinary times but far more so when they watch their "adoptive" country killing, bombarding and waging war against their co religionists, their native culture and their roots' legacy as with the French has been doing against what is perceived by many of them as the legitimate call for and advocacy of an Islamist state.
These same of non European roots cannot forget that France, for example, asked for their, and their co rootists, to help liberate France which they arduously did in WWII only to be marginalized at victory nor that France happily accepted their labour in rebuilding a shattered country.
Will Mr Cohen demand the same thing of those of, say, Polish or of Jewish origin?Certainly not from the latter !
It is not only an unmistakeable advocacy of non equality and of a truncated and restrained social / political life but primarily a reminder of their foreignness and a warning as to what it may lead to.
The demand, in principle, is totally untenable in ordinary times but far more so when they watch their "adoptive" country killing, bombarding and waging war against their co religionists, their native culture and their roots' legacy as with the French has been doing against what is perceived by many of them as the legitimate call for and advocacy of an Islamist state.
These same of non European roots cannot forget that France, for example, asked for their, and their co rootists, to help liberate France which they arduously did in WWII only to be marginalized at victory nor that France happily accepted their labour in rebuilding a shattered country.
Will Mr Cohen demand the same thing of those of, say, Polish or of Jewish origin?Certainly not from the latter !
1
Of course, the obvious solution them is to simply go back to their country of origin, the one that treats them so much better, and live a fulfilled (muslim) life.
2
Roger conveniently forgets (amnesia) that European nations colonized other nations and cultures in Asia, Africa, Latin Americas, practically all continents -- totally uninvited and unsolicited. None of the natives offered them land, women and property, they forced themselves, literally helping themselves to all riches, minerals, wealth, treasures of their acquired territories and enriching their own treasure chests back home. Europe became wealthy on the backs of their colonies and slaves.
2
Yet it is 'their roots, cultural legacy and identity and their "religion"' that are the reason the Middle East has been a violent hellhole for more than 1000 years.
Keep the best of your culture and leave the worst behind.
Else why move to a more successful culture?
Keep the best of your culture and leave the worst behind.
Else why move to a more successful culture?
5
Immigrants and refugees throughout history have often endured "the humiliation of purposelessness" and have always sought respect. They have also often had ambivalent feelings towards the culture of the host country and felt anger at having to be there, all the time while enjoying the benefits of the host country.
For most, though, the goal was that "ladder" and once they found it, they did not step off and when they did it was to build a better life for their children who had their own different ladders to ascend.
True, not all immigrants and refugees found the ladder, and for some frustration and humiliation was too much and there was violence, sometimes directed against the host country or directed inwards against their own.
Never, however, did their quest for "pride and honor" result in wide-scale terror and warfare, whether against the host country or against the culture or civilization of the host country.
Future Street as Mr. Cohen points out is fueled by an ideology, and as he correctly points out, that ideology is Sunni jihadist, and like it or not, that ideology is nurtured by Islam. Until the Islamic world is willing to come to terms with that, things will only get worse on Future Street and in the Middle East.
For most, though, the goal was that "ladder" and once they found it, they did not step off and when they did it was to build a better life for their children who had their own different ladders to ascend.
True, not all immigrants and refugees found the ladder, and for some frustration and humiliation was too much and there was violence, sometimes directed against the host country or directed inwards against their own.
Never, however, did their quest for "pride and honor" result in wide-scale terror and warfare, whether against the host country or against the culture or civilization of the host country.
Future Street as Mr. Cohen points out is fueled by an ideology, and as he correctly points out, that ideology is Sunni jihadist, and like it or not, that ideology is nurtured by Islam. Until the Islamic world is willing to come to terms with that, things will only get worse on Future Street and in the Middle East.
101
" that ideology is Sunni jihadist"
And the irony is that WE are allied with Sunni countries like Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, and persecute Shia countries like Iran.
Are we crazy or what?
Why don't the American people DEMAND answers from their leaders as to why Saudi Arabia is our ally?
And the irony is that WE are allied with Sunni countries like Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, and persecute Shia countries like Iran.
Are we crazy or what?
Why don't the American people DEMAND answers from their leaders as to why Saudi Arabia is our ally?
I have a fair number of friends and acquaintances from Middle Eastern countries and long before the violence came to Western Europe or the US I commented to my husband how easily the men felt insulted (often you only had to disagree with them about something!) and immediately became angry. I once disagreed with a tradesman in a store about some trivial difference. I could not disengage from this person and finally, simply was rude, turned my back and took my business elsewhere.
We have, sadly, lots and lots of unemployed young men who may feel humiliated by that fact but you can count on one hand the number of times they pick up guns and attack or kill others. Humiliation is not a reason to kill. Period. But the fear of being humiliated runs like a thread through Arab culture and is the excuse that men use when they abuse and kill others. If humiliation were a reason to kill, women experience it a lot more often than men and don't resort to murder.
We have, sadly, lots and lots of unemployed young men who may feel humiliated by that fact but you can count on one hand the number of times they pick up guns and attack or kill others. Humiliation is not a reason to kill. Period. But the fear of being humiliated runs like a thread through Arab culture and is the excuse that men use when they abuse and kill others. If humiliation were a reason to kill, women experience it a lot more often than men and don't resort to murder.
165
On women, as a distinct group and to different degrees by culture over human history, they have been battered, figuratively and literally, in ways perhaps characterized as psychological and physical torture such that helplessness sets in. Such techniques are favored and effective for holding down slave or other classes of peoples. Once hope is extinguished, the deed is done and permanent for relevant time ranges.
On men, the cultural and physical imprint of male domination retains hope and expectations that a given male should prevail in his environment. Having failed to do so, as there are only so many dominant roles available, the aspiration for dominance or dignity or however a self-positive sentiment may be described, has not been extinguished. That can be channeled for other purposes.
Obviously, these are generalizations. The theme is ego, domination and exertion or expression of perceived superiority. It applies to individuals, societies, nation-states and civilizations. But there are only so many places at the "top". The games began many millenia ago and continue.
On men, the cultural and physical imprint of male domination retains hope and expectations that a given male should prevail in his environment. Having failed to do so, as there are only so many dominant roles available, the aspiration for dominance or dignity or however a self-positive sentiment may be described, has not been extinguished. That can be channeled for other purposes.
Obviously, these are generalizations. The theme is ego, domination and exertion or expression of perceived superiority. It applies to individuals, societies, nation-states and civilizations. But there are only so many places at the "top". The games began many millenia ago and continue.
Yes but women are raised to accept humiliation - not saying that's right, but that's how it is - so they internalize it and move on. Men, in some cultures more than others, are taught that perceived humiliation is a killing offense.
Some world-class religions and non-religious ideologies praise humility and patience for both men and women. Historically this helped individuals to cope while stabilizing societies. The desire to believe in something is innate: we yearn to know that our lives have meaning. (Believe in 'family values', ecology or Star Trek if you want, but believe in something) Too bad more people aren't gravitating towards these more peaceful ideologies as a way to fill their own spiritual needs. Nature abhors a vacuum, and if peaceful philosophies aren't encouraged and praised at high levels - and let's face it, they're not - then seekers will look elsewhere.
The mind is malleable; even the bright and well-educated can be led to accept 'purely logical' constructs that harm others. What makes a person stop and say, "I won't go there, it's not right" is conscience.
I see little room for hope as even Western culture has tossed aside good stewardship, neighborliness, humility, patience, respect for labor, and the dignity of individuals. Zillionaries, lobbyists, politicians... they reduce us all to dots in a matrix. We hearts will either seek refuge in peaceful values, or something else.
Some world-class religions and non-religious ideologies praise humility and patience for both men and women. Historically this helped individuals to cope while stabilizing societies. The desire to believe in something is innate: we yearn to know that our lives have meaning. (Believe in 'family values', ecology or Star Trek if you want, but believe in something) Too bad more people aren't gravitating towards these more peaceful ideologies as a way to fill their own spiritual needs. Nature abhors a vacuum, and if peaceful philosophies aren't encouraged and praised at high levels - and let's face it, they're not - then seekers will look elsewhere.
The mind is malleable; even the bright and well-educated can be led to accept 'purely logical' constructs that harm others. What makes a person stop and say, "I won't go there, it's not right" is conscience.
I see little room for hope as even Western culture has tossed aside good stewardship, neighborliness, humility, patience, respect for labor, and the dignity of individuals. Zillionaries, lobbyists, politicians... they reduce us all to dots in a matrix. We hearts will either seek refuge in peaceful values, or something else.
"We have, sadly, lots and lots of unemployed young men who may feel humiliated by that fact but you can count on one hand the number of times they pick up guns and attack or kill others." I think this completely wrong point of view comes from decades of gun violence numbing much of the population to how bad it really is in the US.
There are 24 gun murders per day in the US. It is not 130 murders at one time, but there is a mass shooting every single day in the US. The vast majority are men who feel humiliated in some sense.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States#Homicides
There are 24 gun murders per day in the US. It is not 130 murders at one time, but there is a mass shooting every single day in the US. The vast majority are men who feel humiliated in some sense.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States#Homicides
Roger dear, ideology is known to pull families apart, rip sibling from sibling, neighbor from neighbor, communities apart and ultimately split the whole country and the world. You see, each one of us 7 billion human beings are designed to be different. It is a miracle, we are absolutely magnificent brilliant creations of the Universe, the biology and chemistry that goes on to organize each one of us, is simply mind blowing. We are here on earth to exhibit this creation of life, not flaunt it but offer it to all of Universe to witness. Not a single one of us is insignificant nor is anyone MVP, we are all part of the Universe's tapestry. Yet even as minute particles in the huge cosmos we create our own giant egos, larger than our own selves, mainly because of the ideology we believe in or hold on to. Its the same with religion. None of us is born Jew or Hindu or Christian or Muslim. We adopt these beliefs because we are born into a family that believes in such and such. Its all fictional, formulated. And just as it is formulated, it can be dismantled. Our ideologies are strengthened by us repeating, solidifying them to ourselves, our families, our neighbors, our community. But in essence, these ideologies are like clouds, whoosh, they can be dissolved. Those who have control over their minds and see the truth of these firmly held beliefs, realize that Nothing is Permanent, that the whole entire Universe and cosmos is impermanent, repeatedly build and dissolved.
4
Good luck getting your average person to understand that and take it to heart, let alone your average zealot
1
ORY, regardless, there are many of us who believe in natural, non violent dissolution of whatever is fabricated.
The phenomenon of disaffection, disenfranchisement and alienation, and the draw of the caliphate to those afflicted can be distilled down to emotional emptiness and the resultant hook of the cult. We see it everywhere, East and West, in most if not all religions, in societies and clubs and in our ideological politics. It is the lure of those without felt purpose and meaning to illusions of meaning and power, and the emotionally disintegrated are the most susceptible.
ISIL is no different than the churches, the New Age sects, the mystical orders, etc., except perhaps in its degree of brutality and violence expressed physically. But other cults are just as violent in their insidious infliction of emotional harm through indoctrination, repression and power control.
Arab and Islamic men, particularly men, are prone to disaffection through their finding themselves powerless in a no man's land of expatriation, cultural dissonance, often dismal life prospects, and racial and cultural prejudice. They are fish out of water, desperate to breathe. The jihad offers them the delusion of oxygen.
ISIL is no different than the churches, the New Age sects, the mystical orders, etc., except perhaps in its degree of brutality and violence expressed physically. But other cults are just as violent in their insidious infliction of emotional harm through indoctrination, repression and power control.
Arab and Islamic men, particularly men, are prone to disaffection through their finding themselves powerless in a no man's land of expatriation, cultural dissonance, often dismal life prospects, and racial and cultural prejudice. They are fish out of water, desperate to breathe. The jihad offers them the delusion of oxygen.
3
Roger
you are too close to this one. You yourself said it is about ideology. So why are you pushing so hard for a hot war fought by the West? We have seen the results of that strategy. This struggle is an internal struggle.
you are too close to this one. You yourself said it is about ideology. So why are you pushing so hard for a hot war fought by the West? We have seen the results of that strategy. This struggle is an internal struggle.
7
So what if terrorists feel "the humiliation of purposelessness" or a "quest for respect"? There is never a good reason to end the life of an animal you do not intend to eat, unless your immediate life is threatened. Maybe instead of asking why these people feel marginalized, we should ask what brings their discontent to justify destruction rather than construction.
What about the European taxpayers who subsidize the welfare of migrants and refugees, when some of whom feel that the benefits of the "decadent" West aren't good enough, and turn to killing to solve their problems? Surely those French, Belgians, and so many more feel humiliated by paying to house some portion of future terrorists. Do they react by committing murder?
What about the European taxpayers who subsidize the welfare of migrants and refugees, when some of whom feel that the benefits of the "decadent" West aren't good enough, and turn to killing to solve their problems? Surely those French, Belgians, and so many more feel humiliated by paying to house some portion of future terrorists. Do they react by committing murder?
21
Outstanding editorial! Every thought I had was brilliantly elucidated in the next paragraph except one- Bell Curve.
Some children raised on Future St. will be Medical Doctors- students of science with great empathy for all. Many will have average lives. They will be concerned about a job, a family, or having enough time for some hobby or sport. But, their will always be an Abaaoud an Atta.
The Bell Curve is ubiquitous, but American individualism overshadows, religiosity- the zealot's propaganda. So we suffer from, "random acts of violence".
As long as there is access to high-powered, automatic weapons, there will be fast and furious whirlwinds of bloodshed. Power hungry, magnetic maniacs, will always have the capacity to create and utilize scapegoats as targets, to marshall the disenfranchised against.
Some children raised on Future St. will be Medical Doctors- students of science with great empathy for all. Many will have average lives. They will be concerned about a job, a family, or having enough time for some hobby or sport. But, their will always be an Abaaoud an Atta.
The Bell Curve is ubiquitous, but American individualism overshadows, religiosity- the zealot's propaganda. So we suffer from, "random acts of violence".
As long as there is access to high-powered, automatic weapons, there will be fast and furious whirlwinds of bloodshed. Power hungry, magnetic maniacs, will always have the capacity to create and utilize scapegoats as targets, to marshall the disenfranchised against.
4
"the humiliation of purposelessness"
Well, we've all got that. If you're 50 or older, no one needs you. If you're a recent college grad, no one needs you. If you're a construction worker, no one needs you. Teller, driver, waitress, checkout clerk; no one will need you 10 years from now, if they even need you now.
1) why are Muslims so special that they get to kill people because they are disgruntled?
2) what do the rest of us do to feel useful when we're not?
3) how much worse is it going to get before we get a paradigm shift in policy to match that in the world economy?
4) with global warming, will that shift in thinking come too late?
Well, we've all got that. If you're 50 or older, no one needs you. If you're a recent college grad, no one needs you. If you're a construction worker, no one needs you. Teller, driver, waitress, checkout clerk; no one will need you 10 years from now, if they even need you now.
1) why are Muslims so special that they get to kill people because they are disgruntled?
2) what do the rest of us do to feel useful when we're not?
3) how much worse is it going to get before we get a paradigm shift in policy to match that in the world economy?
4) with global warming, will that shift in thinking come too late?
28
Unfortunately, a lot of other disgruntled people turn to violence as well--religious or not.
See: oh, just about any violent mass shooting incident in the Us over the last few decades.
For some of these perpetrators, religion figured into the mix. For many, though, not so much.
Now, anomie, humiliation, anger--that's a pretty common thread. And often the anger has a wide component of sexual frustration. I'm sure Bill Maher is not the only one to notice that the inability to get laid seems to be at the core of a lot of both jihadist and domestic terror.
See: oh, just about any violent mass shooting incident in the Us over the last few decades.
For some of these perpetrators, religion figured into the mix. For many, though, not so much.
Now, anomie, humiliation, anger--that's a pretty common thread. And often the anger has a wide component of sexual frustration. I'm sure Bill Maher is not the only one to notice that the inability to get laid seems to be at the core of a lot of both jihadist and domestic terror.
3
Winston Churchill predicted that the greatest looming threat to
Western Civilization would emerge from the Muslin world, both Sunni and Shia within one hundred years. He stated this just after the turn of the 20th century. He had seen the Mahdi arouse his followers in the Sudan and recognized that the Moslem world was not ready to accept Western ideals but was a caldron of resentment ready to explode.
Western Civilization would emerge from the Muslin world, both Sunni and Shia within one hundred years. He stated this just after the turn of the 20th century. He had seen the Mahdi arouse his followers in the Sudan and recognized that the Moslem world was not ready to accept Western ideals but was a caldron of resentment ready to explode.
15
After reading Mr. Cohen's article, it appears that the only alternative to allowing Syria-bound jihadis back into the country, where they can and will wreak more havoc, is to stop them at the port of entry and render their passports invalid. It's as easy as that. Any national committed to performing terrorists acts on native/adopted soil, should be forfeited the right to nationality. Sounds Draconian? Maybe. But is there any other choice when dealing with Islamic fundamentalist organizations as nefarious as the ones we are seeing? If they are going to such odds to attack innocent civilians in a 'holy war' against our societies, they should be cut off at the pass...By any means necessary.
3
What happened in San Bernardino yesterday should be a warning sign for Europe, starting with Future Street in Brussels. Growing separation between Christian Europeans and Muslim Europeans, the ease to get weapons, and growing unemployment and poverty will make matters worse and very quickly.
2
I agree. What drives the jihad is ideology. The fact that after years of living in US. After receiving a US citizenship some of our Muslim brothers and sisters chose this path is alarming but not surprising.
They of course feel humiliated and isolated. The west while bringing great business opportunities for them and their children can't provide them with sense of belonging, family, social ties and common purpose which Isis apparently offers. It is similar to a gang ideology.
I do think that the ONLY solution to this crisis and lack of strength in human values of compassion is for Muslim clerics and Muslim countries such as Iran to step in and address Isis or their successors on all fronts. Regularly address all social media networks. Until this happens good Muslims will in fact be hurt. It is sad but it will happen.
They of course feel humiliated and isolated. The west while bringing great business opportunities for them and their children can't provide them with sense of belonging, family, social ties and common purpose which Isis apparently offers. It is similar to a gang ideology.
I do think that the ONLY solution to this crisis and lack of strength in human values of compassion is for Muslim clerics and Muslim countries such as Iran to step in and address Isis or their successors on all fronts. Regularly address all social media networks. Until this happens good Muslims will in fact be hurt. It is sad but it will happen.
1
The rhetoric from Republican candidates has been loud and bordering on obnoxious, enough to alienate even mild and moderate Muslim brothers and sisters. Add to the fact these were young people in San Bernardino, the guy was even living with his mom. College education, employed, young daughter, they had everything going for them, except an acceptance of their identity viz muslims. Mr Trump doesn't realize how much damage hate talk does to both sides, both the perpetrator and perpetrated become victims of loud mouthed politics.
1
I'm not sure that humiliation is the root of the problem. I would say that our current Western culture of trying to blame the culture, the country, the other person for one's shortcomings have enabled the mindset of narcissistic crybabies that turn into bullies that sometimes turn into terrorists.
When we once again begin to say what we can do for our country rather than what they can do for us, when we can give thanks for the things we have, and not complain about what we don't have, we'll get to the crux of what is afflicting these mindsets.
Europe has set itself up for failure due to its generous welfare policies, and open borders. And has not provided incentives for younger women and men to start and maintain families. So the stupid and elitist governments and politicians, who have demonstrably failed in integrating the "guest workers" from past migrations from the middle east and africa have once again decided to play social engineers. The media has been complicit too in branding anyone who disagreed with them racist and right-wing. And the people on the ground, as usual, will pay for their incredibly stupid actions.
And as long as that open border ideology remains in Europe it is considered rightfully weak and soft. When the Europeans are "humiliated" enough, they too will act. And it's not going to be pretty. Witness France of today. Germany and Sweden will be isolated, and borders will be reinstalled.
When we once again begin to say what we can do for our country rather than what they can do for us, when we can give thanks for the things we have, and not complain about what we don't have, we'll get to the crux of what is afflicting these mindsets.
Europe has set itself up for failure due to its generous welfare policies, and open borders. And has not provided incentives for younger women and men to start and maintain families. So the stupid and elitist governments and politicians, who have demonstrably failed in integrating the "guest workers" from past migrations from the middle east and africa have once again decided to play social engineers. The media has been complicit too in branding anyone who disagreed with them racist and right-wing. And the people on the ground, as usual, will pay for their incredibly stupid actions.
And as long as that open border ideology remains in Europe it is considered rightfully weak and soft. When the Europeans are "humiliated" enough, they too will act. And it's not going to be pretty. Witness France of today. Germany and Sweden will be isolated, and borders will be reinstalled.
12
Brilliant articulation of the core issue. Thank you Mr. Cohen.
1
You speak of humiliation young Muslims feel and also of their life in Brussels. I assume you mean in the Molenbeck area, with which I am unfamiliar. But I've read a bit about it recently. It had a large Jewish presence and now, none. Why? Perhaps, as reported in a Flemish magazine, Muslims youth were screaming "the Jews are our worst enemies." Is that humiliation enough? Jews in Europe often have to hide their religion out of fear. Is that enough humiliation? Attacks by Muslims against Jews are common now in Europe, leading to a large Jewish exodus from France. All humiliation and yet, I don't read about mass murders by Jews in Europe. Why? Why is Muslim humiliation (if that's the issue and I don't think it is) somehow conducive to jihad and mass murder and that of Jews not?
91
this is by far the best comment
1
I've been reading the Quran and was raised with the usual reform Jewish Sunday schooling.
The answer is in the books.
I could be mistaken, as religious training was a trivial part of my childhood, but I don't recall a lot of inter-citizen judgementalism in the old testament. In comparison I have found nearly every page of the Quran to contain threats, punishments and curses of god against any who not only do not accept Allah and Mohamed but also those who do not practice belief and ritual precisely. And now we see so many clubs and cliques of the Caliphate not only abomonizing any who dare modernity but those whose primitivism is insufficient or incorrect supplication.
Plurality, the acceptance of others ideas and practices is the key to a flourishing civilization. As much as most Muslims on earth seem to have accepted this, Islam does not appear to.
The answer is in the books.
I could be mistaken, as religious training was a trivial part of my childhood, but I don't recall a lot of inter-citizen judgementalism in the old testament. In comparison I have found nearly every page of the Quran to contain threats, punishments and curses of god against any who not only do not accept Allah and Mohamed but also those who do not practice belief and ritual precisely. And now we see so many clubs and cliques of the Caliphate not only abomonizing any who dare modernity but those whose primitivism is insufficient or incorrect supplication.
Plurality, the acceptance of others ideas and practices is the key to a flourishing civilization. As much as most Muslims on earth seem to have accepted this, Islam does not appear to.
Nice! Concentrating on the lack of a coherent ideological response from the West is hard. When the whole point is a pluralistic society in which people, rather than the state, determine what the values, goals and boundaries characterizing their lives will be, a shared ideology is nearly impossible, and not all that desirable. It would be more useful to concentrate on the humiliation. There are things we could do about that, and things we couldn't and shouldn't. Respect for differences should be expanded beyond what the mainstream feels to be it's comfort zone, but for some people, it is humiliating to be prohibited from controlling, and even degrading, others. This is by no means a problem limited to Islam--some Christians say they want the same kind of thing, and the attitude is common in Communism and Fascism as well--and I don't know what ideology one could teach that would dissuade all the different kinds of micro-tyrants from acting out of this kind of "humiliation." The only possibility I can see is to minimize their motivation to mayhem by offering a respectful handshake, a reasonable separation payment to tide them over, and a quick ticket to the caliphate of their choice, with our wishes that it will work out for them in ways that will cause them to remain there.
1
"[ISIS] is ideological. It must therefore be fought by a counter-ideology, among other things. This neither the United States nor Europe nor their nominal Arab and Muslim allies have been able to articulate."
I don't know that there *is* any counter-ideology to "Reality displeases me, so I choose to believe in something else instead."
I don't know that there *is* any counter-ideology to "Reality displeases me, so I choose to believe in something else instead."
13
try LARPing when reality displeases you and you would like to believe in something else instead.
1
Roger Cohen's "Terror from Europe's Future Street" is terrifyingly accurate. I have attempted the same assessment in my "The appeal of Isis" on my "Living in Social Space" blog. My theme is that ISIS -- and other extreme causes -- offer the individual ACCESS TO THE ULTIMATE --that is far more appealing than the watered down offerings in much day-to-day life of the West.
Cohen says that the United States wouldn't have accepted ISIS' presence in 2001. He's pining for George Bush to come out of retirement and lead us into another ground war in Iraq.
Military interventionists, like Cohen, just don't get it.
Their recommendations in 2003 created this monster in the first place, Cohen included, and now the usual suspects come back to us recommending exactly the same thing:
Infantry. Boots on the ground. War. Endless occupations. No exit strategy. No end game.
Cohen is, in fact, recommending more war, occupation and humiliation for the Sunni Muslim Arab world, which he should know by now will result in even more blowback. When Cohen recommended the Iraq War in 2003, he said it would make us more safe. He was wrong. He should be ignored when he makes present recommendations on how to clean up his past mistakes. He should be embarrassed that his prescription (ground invasion) is identical to his mistake in 2003.
Military interventionists, like Cohen, just don't get it.
Their recommendations in 2003 created this monster in the first place, Cohen included, and now the usual suspects come back to us recommending exactly the same thing:
Infantry. Boots on the ground. War. Endless occupations. No exit strategy. No end game.
Cohen is, in fact, recommending more war, occupation and humiliation for the Sunni Muslim Arab world, which he should know by now will result in even more blowback. When Cohen recommended the Iraq War in 2003, he said it would make us more safe. He was wrong. He should be ignored when he makes present recommendations on how to clean up his past mistakes. He should be embarrassed that his prescription (ground invasion) is identical to his mistake in 2003.
33
I don't think you read the whole article. If you did, you'd have noticed this statement by the author:
"But the West will no longer deploy infantry against global jihad. Nor will Arab states. That is a high-risk policy — too high, in my view."
Kinda the opposite of what you said he said.
"But the West will no longer deploy infantry against global jihad. Nor will Arab states. That is a high-risk policy — too high, in my view."
Kinda the opposite of what you said he said.
1
Roger Cohen paints a vivid picture with well-chosen words to describe a comfortable setting in France which 90% of the world would give anything to attain. He uses this picture to suggest a very bleak, almost defeatist, view of the future facing the West in its struggle against ISIS.
Let us be very clear about one thing. While it is useful to learn what motivates the young men who turn to violence and the lure of the Islamic State, that exercise in pondering the provocation for murder is far less important at this juncture than destroying and dismantling ISIS as quickly as possible.
Put another way, whether these young men feel alienated or humiliated or religiously inspired to adopt a nihilistic distortion of Islam, their victims are just as dead. If these men merely suffer from ennui and are thirsting for adventure in a land they’ve never seen and want the sexual freedom promised by their recruiters, the crimes they seek to commit are no more nor less heinous.
The notion that the Islamic State cannot be defeated on the battlefield in Syria and Iraq and on the home front in France, Belgium, Germany and the United States is plain wrong. Unlike the Bush/Cheney war in Iraq which created ISIS, this is a fight we must make – not one we choose to make out of a foolish belief that we can create a democracy wherever we wish.
Let us be very clear about one thing. While it is useful to learn what motivates the young men who turn to violence and the lure of the Islamic State, that exercise in pondering the provocation for murder is far less important at this juncture than destroying and dismantling ISIS as quickly as possible.
Put another way, whether these young men feel alienated or humiliated or religiously inspired to adopt a nihilistic distortion of Islam, their victims are just as dead. If these men merely suffer from ennui and are thirsting for adventure in a land they’ve never seen and want the sexual freedom promised by their recruiters, the crimes they seek to commit are no more nor less heinous.
The notion that the Islamic State cannot be defeated on the battlefield in Syria and Iraq and on the home front in France, Belgium, Germany and the United States is plain wrong. Unlike the Bush/Cheney war in Iraq which created ISIS, this is a fight we must make – not one we choose to make out of a foolish belief that we can create a democracy wherever we wish.
4
The apparent notion of the "humiliating life" supposedly felt by these people then supposedly finds compensation in becoming a terrorist and an outlet of fulfillment in killing, destroying and brutalizing all that most of the rest of us hold to be human and universal values. We are then repeatedly told that it is "nothing to do with Islam". Excuse me (and this is not anti-Islamic, I did live in a Muslim country for 15 years so this is simply a reasonably well-grounded outside observation) but if your religion, any religion, insists on your acceptance of a theology that deliberately sets you apart from non-believers and from the rest of society, often in violent terms and by injunction to regard non-believers as of lower and lesser worth than yourself, then if you are one of those who turns out to be a terrorist and a killer, then the rest of us are perfectly right to say that it actually has everything to do with the religion in question. We and our governments and our politicians, as well as people practicing the religion in question do really need to accept that this is so and find solutions from that point of acceptance. Denying the obvious as a kind of convenient political fiction is foolish and short-sighted and benefits no-one, be they Muslim or non-Muslim, and is taking our world nowhere. Above all, it is Muslims themselves who need to come out of denial to the evil within their societies and communities and do something about it, theologically and practically.
53
Roger Cohen wants to supplement the aerial bombardment of Syria and Iraq with infantry attacks.
He persists in bewilderment that ISIS inspires military age muslims to acts of violence. He thinks maybe it is due to "humiliation".
The perpetrators of the Paris attacks were quoted saying that they were striking back at France for joining the bombing in Syria in September. This is asymmetrical warfare fueled by religious ideology. It's not some mystery of psychology. Young men have been chasing glory through violence since before the dawn of civilization. Identification with a religion or tribe or nation is the background context of militarism.
The remedy for militarism is not more militarism as Roger claims. The remedy for violence in the middle east and Europe and Africa and San Bernardino is demilitarization. End the thousands of coalition bombing runs and see if that doesn't make things more peaceful. Reduce the number of shootings and explosions, don't increase them.
Encourage people to identify as human beings rather than as members of a religion, tribe, or nation.
He persists in bewilderment that ISIS inspires military age muslims to acts of violence. He thinks maybe it is due to "humiliation".
The perpetrators of the Paris attacks were quoted saying that they were striking back at France for joining the bombing in Syria in September. This is asymmetrical warfare fueled by religious ideology. It's not some mystery of psychology. Young men have been chasing glory through violence since before the dawn of civilization. Identification with a religion or tribe or nation is the background context of militarism.
The remedy for militarism is not more militarism as Roger claims. The remedy for violence in the middle east and Europe and Africa and San Bernardino is demilitarization. End the thousands of coalition bombing runs and see if that doesn't make things more peaceful. Reduce the number of shootings and explosions, don't increase them.
Encourage people to identify as human beings rather than as members of a religion, tribe, or nation.
15
Thanks for this thought provoking comment but maybe some young men will always chase glory through violence for their achievement of identification with a religion or tribe and their masculine sexuality.
1
Roger's call for infantry action is analogous to Wayne LaPierre's call for more guns. We've done the experiments. We need to learn from the results.
Re-invasion of Iraq plus ground attacks in Syria will just add fuel to the fire. The fire will burn longer and more intensely.
More military style semi-automatic weapons distributed among the population will facilitate more mass killings.
End middle-eastern slaughter by stopping our absurdly costly and counterproductive military intervention.
End multi-victim killings by outlawing and buying back semi-auto weapons.
Re-invasion of Iraq plus ground attacks in Syria will just add fuel to the fire. The fire will burn longer and more intensely.
More military style semi-automatic weapons distributed among the population will facilitate more mass killings.
End middle-eastern slaughter by stopping our absurdly costly and counterproductive military intervention.
End multi-victim killings by outlawing and buying back semi-auto weapons.
2
Mr. Cohen this is the best analysis of the ISIS phenomena that I have read. It is time we turned away from worry about Muslim ghettos in European cities and look to where and why young men turn away from their western roots. If I remember correctly most of the Muslims involved in the destruction of the twin towers came from Saudi Arabia. These were not desperate men, but murderous idealists and religious fanatics who were educated in that tradition. It takes brains and education to pull off these terrorist attacks; the other young men are just fodder to allow the movements to continue and misguided women going there to marry them not to fight. To make technology work for you so successfully also requires brains and eduction. I hate war; I hate what we did in Iraq, but I also hate standing pat and just watch it all happen. We do so at our peril.
4
“ISIS is not a social issue. You don’t kill 130 people in Paris because you lost your job or never had one. It is ideological.”
Thank you, Mr. Cohen, for calling a spade a spade. Sadly, intellectual honesty of this kind is sorely lacking in the media. Throughout history there have been countless ethnic groups faced extreme alienation and persecution who haven’t resorted to the kinds or intensity of violence exhibited by radical Islamists.
Social alienation – real or perceived – as an explanation for jihadi terrorism is far too simplistic and insufficient. Its root cause is a theological ideology that knows no borders nor socioeconomic class. Beliefs matter. Jihadists really believe what they say they believe about the metaphysics of paradise, martyrdom, and honor.
Defeating this ideology demands that secular and moderate Muslims reform the faith by being honest with themselves, and with others, about the very doctrines that are in need of reform. The world needs them to stand up for liberal and pluralistic values, not by obfuscating Islamist ideology, but by publicly acknowledging the central role that it plays. My fellow secular liberals (especially) must also not confuse open and honest criticism of specific ideas with bigotry against people. The world can't wait. The time for platitudes has long since passed.
Thank you, Mr. Cohen, for calling a spade a spade. Sadly, intellectual honesty of this kind is sorely lacking in the media. Throughout history there have been countless ethnic groups faced extreme alienation and persecution who haven’t resorted to the kinds or intensity of violence exhibited by radical Islamists.
Social alienation – real or perceived – as an explanation for jihadi terrorism is far too simplistic and insufficient. Its root cause is a theological ideology that knows no borders nor socioeconomic class. Beliefs matter. Jihadists really believe what they say they believe about the metaphysics of paradise, martyrdom, and honor.
Defeating this ideology demands that secular and moderate Muslims reform the faith by being honest with themselves, and with others, about the very doctrines that are in need of reform. The world needs them to stand up for liberal and pluralistic values, not by obfuscating Islamist ideology, but by publicly acknowledging the central role that it plays. My fellow secular liberals (especially) must also not confuse open and honest criticism of specific ideas with bigotry against people. The world can't wait. The time for platitudes has long since passed.
128
The ideology is Wahhabism and we have been subsidizing it for 50 years, as we poison the earth with their petroleum. The solution isn't war, just common sense.
"But the West will no longer deploy infantry against global jihad. Nor will the Arab states. That is a high risk policy in my view." Roger Cohen should choose his words a bit more carefully lest he be labeled as a neocon warmonger.
7
Moving past political correctness, Mr. Cohen has provided an honest and clear description of the situation. Though not the immediate focus of his peace, it seems that what he describes is as relevant to the US as to Europe. One hopes our leaders and policy makers will give Mr. Cohen's piece a careful read.
"Roger Cohen should choose his words a bit more carefully lest he be labeled as a neocon warmonger." Maybe he is less concerned with being politically correct than with describing the situation as he honestly sees it.
2
Those who have never worn a uniform, have never been IN a war, like Cohen, Friedman, Brooks and Douthat feel free to advocate sending other people's children to war. Like it's no big deal. They should all tour, together, Walter Reed and meet the newest category of wounded, the quadruple amputees.
This Viet Nam veteran, a volunteer, finds them despicable.
This Viet Nam veteran, a volunteer, finds them despicable.
11
Pakistani is building up its nuclear arsenal. Meanwhile India has sent missions to both the moon and to Mars. Pakistan must feel humiliated by India's success. But the solution is not to nuke Indian cities. The solution is to produce a second Taj Mahal which the world can come to see, and in safety. Or send their own missions to Mars.