Today the Russian Defense Ministry has released evidence which unmasks vast illegal oil trade by Islamic State and points to Turkey as the main destination for the smuggled petrol. They also reported that for the past two months Russia’s airstrikes hit 32 oil complexes, 11 refineries, 23 oil pumping stations that are currently under ISIS control in Syria, adding that the Russian military had also destroyed 1,080 trucks carrying oil products from ISIS to Turkey. They supported these facts with photos and videos. After two months of Russian airstrikes ISIS income decreased from about $3 million per day to about $1.5 million a day. How is it even possible to say that "Putin has no real interest in going after ISIS" as written in this article? Putin told many times that Russia's main goal is to prevent ISIS plan of moving closer to Russian borders and into Russian territory. And Syrian government army is fighting with ISIS as well as with Jabhat al-Nusra (Syrian al-Qaeda) and other rebels as soon as it reaches it while trying to return Syrian territory under control of Syrian government. Is hiding the truth beneficial for someone?
4
Nato expansion is madness. It is being done in my opinion just to increase its budget and provide more jobs for the generals.
10
The free market is part of Europe. The free market is moving East. Ukraine is joining the free market, as any rational, sovereign nation would. The intervention of the State in the economy, hindering the free market, is harmful to the economy. Russian theory that the State should stand between production and the consumer is false theory that weakens the Russian economy. The State must stand aside and let the people work.
Invading and destroying neighboring countries is harmful to the Russian economy. Destruction of Eastern Ukraine creates a massive cost of reconstruction that Russia cannot afford to pay. Healthy, prosperous neighbors are better customers and more productive manufacturers. So Russia's policy of making the neighbors weak by force and violence is destructive to Russia's economy.
The Russian economy is now headed down sharply because the credit system is frozen by uncertainty, insolvency, lack of foreign trade and lack of foreign currency. The price of oil - a commodity that is not controlled by the United States - will stay low because of lack of worldwide economic growth. Lunatic propaganda, blaming the United States for global economic conditions, is an attempt to cover up the mistakes of Russia's own policies.
Sooner or later Russia must accept its fate and the reality of the free market in economics. Neither the State, nor corrupt officials, should control the economy. Countries join the European Union and NATO because it benefits them to do so.
Invading and destroying neighboring countries is harmful to the Russian economy. Destruction of Eastern Ukraine creates a massive cost of reconstruction that Russia cannot afford to pay. Healthy, prosperous neighbors are better customers and more productive manufacturers. So Russia's policy of making the neighbors weak by force and violence is destructive to Russia's economy.
The Russian economy is now headed down sharply because the credit system is frozen by uncertainty, insolvency, lack of foreign trade and lack of foreign currency. The price of oil - a commodity that is not controlled by the United States - will stay low because of lack of worldwide economic growth. Lunatic propaganda, blaming the United States for global economic conditions, is an attempt to cover up the mistakes of Russia's own policies.
Sooner or later Russia must accept its fate and the reality of the free market in economics. Neither the State, nor corrupt officials, should control the economy. Countries join the European Union and NATO because it benefits them to do so.
7
I believe Pope Francis stated that unrestrained capitalism is the dung of the devil....Be there a devil or not, it is still dung.....this apotheosizing of the free market......so typical of a certain cosmopolitan capitalism............well, I guess the spirit of Ayn Rand is alive spreading
3
Who is making the decisions to expand NATO with Montenegro? Is it Mr. Obama, Mr. Kerry, or some murky figure in the Pentagon or State Department? This is another of the mysterious attacks on Russian relations that eminate from the anonymous bowels of the Pentagon/State Department. Please Mr. Obama start controlling what is done by anonymous figures in your administration and stop being led around by whoever the secretive Mr. Anon may be.
7
Regardless of what Russia likes or doesn’t like, Montenegro represents a liability for the alliance. They add little if anything and could cost a lot. I’m not sure why we would want NATO to expand further and undertake more obligations.
6
Montenegro joining NATO is a "threat" to Russia... To Putin's Russia that has ambition to create a para-Slavic pseudo nation straddling the continent from the Pacific to Med... For that Russia needs it's ally Bosnia that is currently an "Inland Empire" to "reunite" Montenegro Crimean style... So, the protection Montenegro is seeking as no trivial matter and needs force beyond half a dozen F-16's provided to Baltics... And being afraid of incurring Russian rage and fury should not be a factor in NATO decision making... Unless NATO is prepared to face Russian tanks smack in the heart of Europe as it was on display in Ukraine...
2
The reason Russia is so frustrated and bothered by nations seeking NATO membership is because Russia does not understand (or does not want to understand) how the modern international system works.
Russia see's nations signing the NATO treaty as a threat but isn't able to make the connection that it's own foreign policies in the region are the driving incentive for nations to seek NATO membership. The other disturbing part about Russia in this regard is it's consistent failure to accept that sovereign independent nations have the right to sign treaties they feel is in their national interests and Moscow has no right to a veto over the decisions of sovereign nations. This comes from a failure of Russia to accept that there is no longer a "Near Abroad" or spheres of influence as in the 19th century age of empires.
Russia will always have the wrong foreign policies to achieve their goals until Russia accepts the foundations of international law and norms in addition to the modern international security order.
Russia see's nations signing the NATO treaty as a threat but isn't able to make the connection that it's own foreign policies in the region are the driving incentive for nations to seek NATO membership. The other disturbing part about Russia in this regard is it's consistent failure to accept that sovereign independent nations have the right to sign treaties they feel is in their national interests and Moscow has no right to a veto over the decisions of sovereign nations. This comes from a failure of Russia to accept that there is no longer a "Near Abroad" or spheres of influence as in the 19th century age of empires.
Russia will always have the wrong foreign policies to achieve their goals until Russia accepts the foundations of international law and norms in addition to the modern international security order.
8
I assume you refer to Ukraine.
I'd like to offer you an alternative counter-factual.
Imagine, that Ukraine hadn't opted for independence in 1991, staying with Russia within the RF instead ,based on the close economic ties, high level of integration in all sectors of the economy, infrastructure, cultural similarities, etc.
Ukraine could have more influential from the inside: with 43 million people, it would have been the second largest constituent republic of the RF.
Knowing what you know and seeing what has happened, do you agree, that Ukrainians would be better off today?
I'd like to offer you an alternative counter-factual.
Imagine, that Ukraine hadn't opted for independence in 1991, staying with Russia within the RF instead ,based on the close economic ties, high level of integration in all sectors of the economy, infrastructure, cultural similarities, etc.
Ukraine could have more influential from the inside: with 43 million people, it would have been the second largest constituent republic of the RF.
Knowing what you know and seeing what has happened, do you agree, that Ukrainians would be better off today?
@waldo
...but Ukraine did not go that route. They wanted independence and have a nation no longer beholden to Moscow.
I was referring to far more than Ukraine, but Ukraine is the best example of Moscow not respecting international law or the European security order by using military force to seize and annex Ukrainian territory, which only adds to nations incentive to seek security guarantees to prevent being Moscow's next victim.
...but Ukraine did not go that route. They wanted independence and have a nation no longer beholden to Moscow.
I was referring to far more than Ukraine, but Ukraine is the best example of Moscow not respecting international law or the European security order by using military force to seize and annex Ukrainian territory, which only adds to nations incentive to seek security guarantees to prevent being Moscow's next victim.
6
"Russia does not understand (or does not want to understand) how the modern international system works"--------------------LOL
Is that why Russia is on better terms with almost every country in the world outside NATO than we are? Not that a lot of this international brotherhood means much in the real world, but when you talk about China, India, Pakistan, Brazil.....well, one has to at least QUESTION, maybe it's Russia who has the correct heading.
Is that why Russia is on better terms with almost every country in the world outside NATO than we are? Not that a lot of this international brotherhood means much in the real world, but when you talk about China, India, Pakistan, Brazil.....well, one has to at least QUESTION, maybe it's Russia who has the correct heading.
1
$$$$ talks, invasion walks. Another blow to the action packed "brilliance" of
Vladimir. Invading countries on the premise if your citizens are there consider it yours takes another backward slide to the "medieval" history books.
Well played, NATO, well played!
Vladimir. Invading countries on the premise if your citizens are there consider it yours takes another backward slide to the "medieval" history books.
Well played, NATO, well played!
4
$$$ talks...for 'Ukraine' that certainly is the case. The question is, how long do you think the spigot remains open?
No amount of foaming-at-the-mouth Russia-hatred will turn the funds Kiev received as a loan, or loan guarantee into a free grant.
Repayment will have to start and soon.
No amount of foaming-at-the-mouth Russia-hatred will turn the funds Kiev received as a loan, or loan guarantee into a free grant.
Repayment will have to start and soon.
2
The West is not trying to get Russia to to help defeat the Islamic State. Russia bulldozed its way into the Middle East after the West left a power vacuum there, and now we are just accepting the inevitable after abandoning our own responsibilities. Be careful what you wish for NY Times.
2
Athens, often hailed at the birthplace of western democracy and civilization. Ever wonder how Athens crumbled?
From Wikipedia:
Delian League, founded in 478 BC, was an association of Greek city-states, members numbering between 150 to 173, under the leadership of Athens, whose purpose was to continue fighting the Persian Empire after the Greek victory in the Battle of Plataea at the end of the Second Persian invasion of Greece... Shortly after its inception, Athens began to use the League's navy for its own purposes. This behavior frequently led to conflict between Athens and the less powerful members of the League. By 431 BC, Athens' heavy-handed control of the Delian League prompted the outbreak of the Peloponnesian War; the League was dissolved upon the war's conclusion in 404 BC under the direction of Lysander, the Spartan commander.
If you don't see parallel between Athens turning a defensive alliance into the Athenian Empire and America having NATO soldiers fighting its wars all over the world, you are too heavy into NATO propaganda.
From Wikipedia:
Delian League, founded in 478 BC, was an association of Greek city-states, members numbering between 150 to 173, under the leadership of Athens, whose purpose was to continue fighting the Persian Empire after the Greek victory in the Battle of Plataea at the end of the Second Persian invasion of Greece... Shortly after its inception, Athens began to use the League's navy for its own purposes. This behavior frequently led to conflict between Athens and the less powerful members of the League. By 431 BC, Athens' heavy-handed control of the Delian League prompted the outbreak of the Peloponnesian War; the League was dissolved upon the war's conclusion in 404 BC under the direction of Lysander, the Spartan commander.
If you don't see parallel between Athens turning a defensive alliance into the Athenian Empire and America having NATO soldiers fighting its wars all over the world, you are too heavy into NATO propaganda.
7
Nato has become a vehicle for global domination; holding back Russia quest to expand its global influence. Despite the cold war being over, the west and Russia see one another thru the cold war prism. Russia's history of foreign invasion and its staggering losses suffered during WWII has left it xenophobic and suspicious of any Nato expansion. Russia, as the Soviet Union, shared the world stage with the US; but since its dissolution it has since its influence dwindle; its territorial influence shrinking. Any movement, any expansion of Nato is seen as provocative and testing Russia, metal. Putin is a small man with big goals; one being making Russia relevant again.
5
This all turns on Russia's growing weakness. Its economy is now smaller than Italy's and it has stumbled from miscalculation to miscalculation as it shrinks relative to others. The question for NATO: What will Putin's next mistake be in his downward spiral?
2
This move land locks Serbia..Russia and Serbia are like brothers..
No Russian port on the Adriatic.. which is what Putin had in mind..
No Russian port on the Adriatic.. which is what Putin had in mind..
3
Russia is furious over Montenegro joining NATO? A tiny country of 600,000 that's over 2,000 km from Russia? Kind of sad that Russia sees that as some kind of threat. Also, what business is of Russia's if Montenegro wants to join? It's a sovereign nation and it's their choice.
I also see that Russian leaders are still geographically challenged since they keep bringing up the "encircling of Russia" concept. The vast majority of Russia's borders are with Belorus, Ukraine, Georgia, Azerbaijian, Kazakhstan, Mongolia, China, and North Korea, none of which are NATO members.
I also see that Russian leaders are still geographically challenged since they keep bringing up the "encircling of Russia" concept. The vast majority of Russia's borders are with Belorus, Ukraine, Georgia, Azerbaijian, Kazakhstan, Mongolia, China, and North Korea, none of which are NATO members.
5
The Russians are not 'furious', they simply registered their objection, because they see it as just another poke in the eye.
5
I'd like to give them a great big 3 Stooges poke in the eye. Maybe they would start paying attention.
1
We're just frittering away our collective energies on what amounts to petty squabbling over who's friends with whom.
Could we imagine what humanity could accomplish if it would stop fighting over imaginary lines or imaginary friends (deities) that have raged across the millennia? I know it's just a whacky-liberal fantasy. But how I wish I could tell my kids that their future is bright and boundless, and that their children's futures are the same, instead of telling them the reality - things will get worse and life will become ever more difficult.
Could we imagine what humanity could accomplish if it would stop fighting over imaginary lines or imaginary friends (deities) that have raged across the millennia? I know it's just a whacky-liberal fantasy. But how I wish I could tell my kids that their future is bright and boundless, and that their children's futures are the same, instead of telling them the reality - things will get worse and life will become ever more difficult.
A commenter mentioned there is no other reason but Russia to invite Montenegro, but actually if you read the documents they wrote in the late 90s, they see Montenegro as part of their Southern Expansion--part of a land bridge to reach the Mediterranean. All of the plans about what they are doing and plan to do were written over 10 years ago--this includes shifting troops East and switching to constant troop rotations, including expanding South and North.
None of these documents are classified, it is past time for the articles and analysis about NATO to mention that they exist, provide context of all the different ways actions that are being presented as reactions to current events actually fit NATO's stated strategies.
Here is a 2002 US Army Strategic Studies overview of 'The Roadmap for NATO' with an overview of the planning taking place; http://www.strategicstudiesinstitute.army.mil/pdffiles/PUB128.pdf
None of these documents are classified, it is past time for the articles and analysis about NATO to mention that they exist, provide context of all the different ways actions that are being presented as reactions to current events actually fit NATO's stated strategies.
Here is a 2002 US Army Strategic Studies overview of 'The Roadmap for NATO' with an overview of the planning taking place; http://www.strategicstudiesinstitute.army.mil/pdffiles/PUB128.pdf
1
To say Russian has no interest in confronting Daesh is ridiculous.
Russian has more Chechen, Dagestani, and muslim citizens fighting with Daesh than all of Europe combined.
Thousands of radicalized extremist fighters with Russian citizenship that Russia has no interest in importing home.
The only difference is the manner in which Daesh is confronted.
The Russians believe that end is best served with an alliance with Bashar al-Assad, his government, and his military.
They do not see the point in toppling al-Assad and risking a power vacuum which would send the country into collapse and chaos à la Libya, Iraq, and Yemen
Putin's mantra is "the STATE first" because without a strong State there can be no Security and no lasting Peace. So Putin seeks to save the Syrian State (which currently means accommodating al-Assad and defeating his enemies on the ground) then ensure State security by attacking those who wish to undermine the Security of the Syrian State....namely Daesh.
Russian has more Chechen, Dagestani, and muslim citizens fighting with Daesh than all of Europe combined.
Thousands of radicalized extremist fighters with Russian citizenship that Russia has no interest in importing home.
The only difference is the manner in which Daesh is confronted.
The Russians believe that end is best served with an alliance with Bashar al-Assad, his government, and his military.
They do not see the point in toppling al-Assad and risking a power vacuum which would send the country into collapse and chaos à la Libya, Iraq, and Yemen
Putin's mantra is "the STATE first" because without a strong State there can be no Security and no lasting Peace. So Putin seeks to save the Syrian State (which currently means accommodating al-Assad and defeating his enemies on the ground) then ensure State security by attacking those who wish to undermine the Security of the Syrian State....namely Daesh.
8
NATO is an org. in search of a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
Spreading East can only do more harm than good, enraging Russia that is technically at peace will all but Russian speaking parts of the SSR that left her.
Better to stay put or a smarter move to invite Russia to join Nato, thus lowering tensions.
Spreading East can only do more harm than good, enraging Russia that is technically at peace will all but Russian speaking parts of the SSR that left her.
Better to stay put or a smarter move to invite Russia to join Nato, thus lowering tensions.
4
Ever since the formation of NATO, Russia has been technically at peace with the world. That did not negate the need to establish an organization to ensure the continuance of that peace.
Unless Russia has further territorial expansion plans, there is no reason why NATO membership should be seen as a threat to them; and if they do have such plans, then NATO is the only force which might deter them.
Unless Russia has further territorial expansion plans, there is no reason why NATO membership should be seen as a threat to them; and if they do have such plans, then NATO is the only force which might deter them.
4
@Paul
What you are saying had a degree of truth in it up to the point Russia invaded Ukraine and illegally annexed Ukrainian territory. An act of military expansionism not seen since World War II in Europe.
What you are saying had a degree of truth in it up to the point Russia invaded Ukraine and illegally annexed Ukrainian territory. An act of military expansionism not seen since World War II in Europe.
2
Admitting the North Pole to NATO, says the Russian admiral. What a great idea, especially since Russia moved first to militarize the area. Russian paranoia continues to fuel their blunders, such as Eastern Ukraine and Syria. How's those economic sanctions working for you, Vladimir?
4
Montenegro has been invited to join NATO. There are anti-government forces, that seek to derail the country’s membership bid. But its parliament has voted to join and the government has carried out reforms to enhance its eligibility.
What aggravates Russia even more is that the Alliance’s continuing open door policy towards the next three countries in line for potential membership: Bosnia and Herzegovina, Macedonia and Georgia.
Yet it's unlikely that Georgia be invited to join NATO. Abkhazia and South Ossetia had broken away with Moscow’s support in August 2008, just four months after the Nato summit at Bucharest, when it was declared that Georgia and Ukraine “will become members of Nato”. In hindsight many believed it was a mistake.
What aggravates Russia even more is that the Alliance’s continuing open door policy towards the next three countries in line for potential membership: Bosnia and Herzegovina, Macedonia and Georgia.
Yet it's unlikely that Georgia be invited to join NATO. Abkhazia and South Ossetia had broken away with Moscow’s support in August 2008, just four months after the Nato summit at Bucharest, when it was declared that Georgia and Ukraine “will become members of Nato”. In hindsight many believed it was a mistake.
2
What a boon to the American taxpayer: add one more non-dues paying NATO member to the club.
Are Obama and Kerry purposely trying to re-ignite the Cold War? What happened to Obama's reset?
Are Obama and Kerry purposely trying to re-ignite the Cold War? What happened to Obama's reset?
7
It's not fair, istn't it, to provide for freeriders. There are some who voice for footing our own security bills. But most Europeans aren't keen to spend on military and expect Washington to police Europe.
2
Agreed..he is catering to the hawk wing of the party like the former Sen. Lieberman and Hillary. Although you have to give Hillary some credit, one of the few people who voted for Iraq 2 war who said it was a mistake, but then blew it in Libya, instead of being neutral and preventing war crimes against that people, decided to take out Kdaff...that resulted in the current mess there now.
2
I'd rather that than sending money to Saudi Arabia and Israel, who don't need a penny of it.
The only reason 'you could do business with Russia on Iran' (as quoted from one of the optimists in this article) is because both Russia and Iran have both connived to cheat on that nuclear agreement as soon as practicable (i.e. as soon as the West looks the other way, which it inevitably will). NATO should ignore Putin's demands/threats, because Putin has nothing GENUINE to offer as any kind of quid-pro-quo.
3
....except a huge market for finished goods, unlimited natural resources, ready for exploration and 143 million consumers.
How about Russia into NATO. The Russian people have more common interests with our own and the rest of the free world than they have differences. Think what the U.S., Europe, and the rest of NATO could mean with Russia as a partner. Alas, partnership requires trust. And Putin seems to prefer the old world order. Imagine this chest pounding over Montenegro.
3
Agree Charlie......makes sense to me...Russia certainly has disagreements with us but the cold war is over...
Thoreticly I think that would be good.
I live in Europe and the threat I feel, Is not Russia as a country with the people living there, they actually our roots.
The threat I feel is the cold war, of Nato building military structures close to Russas border in Europe, and then Russia counterbuilding an equal military structure on the other side.
This is pointless it will only lead to a useless war, between cultures of similarities.
Instead we should cooperate, and together defeat terroeism.
I believe the Nato bases and the Russian military bases are located wrong.
Its not in Europe the military bases are needed, please look over your shoulder huys, Mr USA and Mr Russia, we have lots of dirt further south, lets help each other with that instead of accusing each other like children
I live in Europe and the threat I feel, Is not Russia as a country with the people living there, they actually our roots.
The threat I feel is the cold war, of Nato building military structures close to Russas border in Europe, and then Russia counterbuilding an equal military structure on the other side.
This is pointless it will only lead to a useless war, between cultures of similarities.
Instead we should cooperate, and together defeat terroeism.
I believe the Nato bases and the Russian military bases are located wrong.
Its not in Europe the military bases are needed, please look over your shoulder huys, Mr USA and Mr Russia, we have lots of dirt further south, lets help each other with that instead of accusing each other like children
1
This move is sheer folly. The post cold war order has been interpreted by elements in the US to mean US global domination on behalf of US corporations and banks. The cold war has been replaced by the war of the one percent. And this new violence has up until now manifested mostly in the Middle East as the US and its NATO allies seek to control a broad swarth of energy resources. It's as if in this nuclear age we have adopted the mentality of the Europe in the 18th century when wars proliferated over trade routes and colonial conquests. Domination of England over France and Spain or Germany over England and Russia have led the world to catastrophe in two world wars that decided little other than the madness of this approach to international relations.
But our leaders seem ignorant to the reality that this is the nuclear age. We have even militarized space and we do live in a multi-poler world where interdependence, not domination is what will make our nation and the earth itself secure.
Sadly, President Obama, who has no imperative to raise campaign funds or to run for another office has decided that his mark as president will be to give the world and the nation the same arrogance and imperial stance that came from the Bush administration. For this he will be remembered and rightfully condemned. We can only hope that he will not leave us with yet another NATO war of conquest.
But our leaders seem ignorant to the reality that this is the nuclear age. We have even militarized space and we do live in a multi-poler world where interdependence, not domination is what will make our nation and the earth itself secure.
Sadly, President Obama, who has no imperative to raise campaign funds or to run for another office has decided that his mark as president will be to give the world and the nation the same arrogance and imperial stance that came from the Bush administration. For this he will be remembered and rightfully condemned. We can only hope that he will not leave us with yet another NATO war of conquest.
9
Nonsense. Tiny Montenegro presents no threat to Russia. Nor would NATO if Putin stopped encouraging Russia's paranoia about the West. If Putin was truly a great strategist who wished Russia be seen as a promoter of peace in the world he would work to include Russia in NATO. Neither the US nor Europe have any interest in having bad relations with Russia and would much prefer to see Russia prosper economically and in peace. But Putin prefers that the world see Russia as a great power and recover the glory days of the USSR (which were never very glorious to begin with).
13
Please explain how tiny Montenegro's entry into NATO is a threat to Russia.
It's amusing that on one hand Putin brags about mighty Russia and its mighty military, yet is "furious" over some threat from itty bitty Montenegro.
It's amusing that on one hand Putin brags about mighty Russia and its mighty military, yet is "furious" over some threat from itty bitty Montenegro.
1
How would the US/NATO react, if a Russia-led European "defensive' alliance came into being (like the embryionic CSTO in Asia).
All it takes is a disgruntled country, fed up with how it's been treated by its 'friends and allies'.
Examples: Serbia, Greece, Cyprus, possibly Portugal (with the extreme left government that just came into power).
Fantasy, for sure.
But I wouldn't be so cocky, if I were you.
All it takes is a disgruntled country, fed up with how it's been treated by its 'friends and allies'.
Examples: Serbia, Greece, Cyprus, possibly Portugal (with the extreme left government that just came into power).
Fantasy, for sure.
But I wouldn't be so cocky, if I were you.
I think Russia suffers from a kind of paranoia that has been caused by invasions from Napoleon and Hitler as well as incursions by England and the USA after the first W.W. Couple that with their history with communism and all the anti cabalist propaganda has instilled a distrust in the West.
I have a feeling they also have a rather bad case of low national self esteem which they try to cover up with military bluster and what may be called temper tantrums.
I have a feeling they also have a rather bad case of low national self esteem which they try to cover up with military bluster and what may be called temper tantrums.
2
It's quite one thing to use NATO expansion to needle Russia, (although the gesture is childish) it is quite another to invite louche countries into the Organization: Macedonia, Montenegro, Albania, Bosnia Herzegovina. NATO will get have to get involved in a war if these countries invoke Article 5. Think of Turkey's rash actions of using NATO cover to bomb the Kurds and then extrapolate.
The gesture dilutes NATO integrity and raison d'etre. At least the name should be changed as NATO has nothing relevant to the "North Atlantic" anymore.
I recommend "Coalition of the Just" perhaps, COJ. At least that is how it is being sold and it sounds pompous enough.
The gesture dilutes NATO integrity and raison d'etre. At least the name should be changed as NATO has nothing relevant to the "North Atlantic" anymore.
I recommend "Coalition of the Just" perhaps, COJ. At least that is how it is being sold and it sounds pompous enough.
8
Take over government and absorb country, take over government and absorb country, rinse and repeat. Isn't this how cancer spread?
There haven't been a reason for NATO to exist for 25 years yet instead of shrinking, it is growing leaps and bounds. It's mission went from passive military defense of members to active military, intelligence and propaganda offense against enemies of the United States. Polish soldiers in Afghanistan, Belgians in Iraq. Which of these deployments sounds defensive?
There haven't been a reason for NATO to exist for 25 years yet instead of shrinking, it is growing leaps and bounds. It's mission went from passive military defense of members to active military, intelligence and propaganda offense against enemies of the United States. Polish soldiers in Afghanistan, Belgians in Iraq. Which of these deployments sounds defensive?
11
Expanding western aggression against the motherland as seen by Russian eyes.
How hard is that to understand?
From the same long line owned by the military industrial complex. It won't be their kids dying.
How hard is that to understand?
From the same long line owned by the military industrial complex. It won't be their kids dying.
4
How is the membership of a tiny country of 600,000 that isn't even close to Russia "western aggression"? That is very hard to understand.
1
There is an enormous competition for world leadership that has been able to grow exponentially as the US has stepped back from that role over the last six years or so. Without the US, NATO is more symbolic than real. Russia is real. China is real.
Preemption is always preferable to restructuring. Thus, if the US wants to keep the world structured along lines that it generally considers acceptable, the US will have to reassert its role before it is too late.
It becomes too late when Russia annexes the Crimea and is actively seeking the Ukraine and other territory. It becomes too late when the Chinese take control of the shipping lanes in large areas of the South China Sea and the Pacific. The only effective choices then are military force as diplomacy alone will not produce the desired result.
We need to understand that living in a world that suits us requires cost and effort. If we are not willing to undertake the required cost and effort, then we must be prepared to live in someone else's world, even if it is a world we do not like.
Preemption is always preferable to restructuring. Thus, if the US wants to keep the world structured along lines that it generally considers acceptable, the US will have to reassert its role before it is too late.
It becomes too late when Russia annexes the Crimea and is actively seeking the Ukraine and other territory. It becomes too late when the Chinese take control of the shipping lanes in large areas of the South China Sea and the Pacific. The only effective choices then are military force as diplomacy alone will not produce the desired result.
We need to understand that living in a world that suits us requires cost and effort. If we are not willing to undertake the required cost and effort, then we must be prepared to live in someone else's world, even if it is a world we do not like.
4
You have missed a fair number of history classes it seems.
The war in the Pacific in 1941 didn't break out because of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour: it started with the Americans trying to colonise the Philippines (unsuccessfully), then aggressively interdicting Japanese shipping traffic and finally actually blockading it.
The Chinese (and Vietnamese, etc.) have every right to 'control' shipping in the South China sea; the US has none.
The war in the Pacific in 1941 didn't break out because of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour: it started with the Americans trying to colonise the Philippines (unsuccessfully), then aggressively interdicting Japanese shipping traffic and finally actually blockading it.
The Chinese (and Vietnamese, etc.) have every right to 'control' shipping in the South China sea; the US has none.
2
Sorry Vlad Putin you brought this on yourself.
Well Putin is not exactly a Washington or Lincoln but certainly not a Hitler or Stalin...He main purpose is to get back a few russian speaking areas that were lost when the USSR imploded like eastern Ukraine..and influence allies like Assad. We do the same thing with Saudia Arabia, Jordan etc.
We would do the same thing if our country went bananas and let southern Texas join Mexico in a moment of crisis...
We would do the same thing if our country went bananas and let southern Texas join Mexico in a moment of crisis...
1
I wonder how much money Washington/Nato paid Montenegro leadership to take this 'war step' Montenegro is a strategical location for NATO since Greece is moving into a peaceful solution with Russia.
And finally, USA/NATO wants to keep their military basis in Montenegro that is the center for the Afghanistan-Europe cocaine connection. This is a lot of money and when you talk money USA gets involved!
And finally, USA/NATO wants to keep their military basis in Montenegro that is the center for the Afghanistan-Europe cocaine connection. This is a lot of money and when you talk money USA gets involved!
2
"military basis"? What does that mean?
Cheap, cheap, cheap
I would like to see Russia brought into NATO. This should have been done in the 1990s. On the other hand, the Russians themselves are largely to blame for their perceived "encirclement."
1
Jon..suppose Canada and Mexico joined in a military alliance with Russia..How would you feel?
1
The "encirclement" concept is ridiculous. The vast majority of Russia's borders are with Belarus, Ukraine, Georgia, Azerbaijian, Kazakhstan, Mongolia, China, and North Korea, none of which are NATO members and most of which are hardly allies of the U.S. Russian leaders need a geography lesson.
@Paul: Well, the citizenry of Vermont by themselves could defeat Canada and Mexico. Seriously, however, I take your point. But that doesn't change the fact that Russia's actions (justified or not) have provoked Western reactions.
This is not the time to agitating Russia. We do not need more N.A.T.O. members. It is very expensive and we don't even know if they would fight if asked to.
5
Agreed..it is like pulling teeth from them when a humanitarian or war criminal crisis starts..
Why is Russia "agitated" over the membership of a tiny country of 600,000 that isn't even close to the border of Russia?
1
thanks to bob dylan
"Masters Of War"
Come you masters of war
You that build all the guns
You that build the death planes
You that build all the bombs
You that hide behind walls
You that hide behind desks
I just want you to know
I can see through your masks.
You that never done nothin'
But build to destroy
You play with my world
Like it's your little toy
You put a gun in my hand
And you hide from my eyes
And you turn and run farther
When the fast bullets fly.
Like Judas of old
You lie and deceive
A world war can be won
You want me to believe
But I see through your eyes
And I see through your brain
Like I see through the water
That runs down my drain.
You fasten all the triggers
For the others to fire
Then you set back and watch
When the death count gets higher
You hide in your mansion'
As young people's blood
Flows out of their bodies
And is buried in the mud.
You've thrown the worst fear
That can ever be hurled
Fear to bring children
Into the world
For threatening my baby
Unborn and unnamed
You ain't worth the blood
That runs in your veins.
"Masters Of War"
Come you masters of war
You that build all the guns
You that build the death planes
You that build all the bombs
You that hide behind walls
You that hide behind desks
I just want you to know
I can see through your masks.
You that never done nothin'
But build to destroy
You play with my world
Like it's your little toy
You put a gun in my hand
And you hide from my eyes
And you turn and run farther
When the fast bullets fly.
Like Judas of old
You lie and deceive
A world war can be won
You want me to believe
But I see through your eyes
And I see through your brain
Like I see through the water
That runs down my drain.
You fasten all the triggers
For the others to fire
Then you set back and watch
When the death count gets higher
You hide in your mansion'
As young people's blood
Flows out of their bodies
And is buried in the mud.
You've thrown the worst fear
That can ever be hurled
Fear to bring children
Into the world
For threatening my baby
Unborn and unnamed
You ain't worth the blood
That runs in your veins.
2
Montenegro is nowhere near Russia's border, and as a member of the former Yugoslavia it was never a part of the Warsaw Pact. As pointed out in the article, it is a tiny country with virtually no military force and no strategic value. It's membership in NATO does nothing to threaten Russia: it's a largely symbolic move, and has drawn a symbolic Russian temper tantrum.
And note to Russia: your seizure of the Crimea and invasion of eastern Ukraine are driving more states into NATO's arms. Even Finland and Sweden are flirting with applying for membership. If you don't want to encourage NATO expansion, don't give your neighbors a reason to join. You'll catch more flies with honey then you will with vinegar.
And note to Russia: your seizure of the Crimea and invasion of eastern Ukraine are driving more states into NATO's arms. Even Finland and Sweden are flirting with applying for membership. If you don't want to encourage NATO expansion, don't give your neighbors a reason to join. You'll catch more flies with honey then you will with vinegar.
4
Turkey - among others - shot down the Russian bomber, because it wanted to defend Turkish-speakers in Syria.
Is that any different, when Russia is upset the way the new Ukrainian administration is treating ethnic Russians and Russian-speakers?
Is that any different, when Russia is upset the way the new Ukrainian administration is treating ethnic Russians and Russian-speakers?
This is nutty on both sides. What do they expect?
Russia has been increasingly erratic, and acting angry. If they are not angry and directly territorial, they seem to look for ways to become that way. Putin seems to have a personal zeal for war that heightens his security at home, and offers many excuses for Russia's continued inability to join the rest of Europe in a greater level of economic and political freedom for all. Also, the cult of Putin may work in Russia - or may have to, as people have no choice, but it scares the willies out of the rest of the free world. As long as Putin uses agression to cement his personal right to use Russia as his playtoy, mistrust will continue.
As for Nato, you went through the trouble of ticking off Putin/Russia, for a country the size of a medium sized city at best. Are you nuts?
Maybe putin and Nato deserve each other...
Russia has been increasingly erratic, and acting angry. If they are not angry and directly territorial, they seem to look for ways to become that way. Putin seems to have a personal zeal for war that heightens his security at home, and offers many excuses for Russia's continued inability to join the rest of Europe in a greater level of economic and political freedom for all. Also, the cult of Putin may work in Russia - or may have to, as people have no choice, but it scares the willies out of the rest of the free world. As long as Putin uses agression to cement his personal right to use Russia as his playtoy, mistrust will continue.
As for Nato, you went through the trouble of ticking off Putin/Russia, for a country the size of a medium sized city at best. Are you nuts?
Maybe putin and Nato deserve each other...
“another step toward the full integration of Europe and toward the common defense.”
Pardon-me, "common defense"? I have yet to see NATO as a defensive force, up to now I have only seen NATO as an attacking force.
Pardon-me, "common defense"? I have yet to see NATO as a defensive force, up to now I have only seen NATO as an attacking force.
4
Attacking force?
Has any NATO country invaded a neighbor and taken land?
2008-Russia invades their much smaller neighbor, Giorgia, takes South Ossetia and Abkhazia, ethnic Georgians are forced to flee.
2014 Russia takes Crimea by force, after guaranteeing the territorial integrity of Ukraine when it surrendered it's nuclear weapons
(The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the Final Act of the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe, to respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine;
2. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their obligation to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or
political independence of Ukraine, and that none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except in self-defence )
Has any NATO country invaded a neighbor and taken land?
2008-Russia invades their much smaller neighbor, Giorgia, takes South Ossetia and Abkhazia, ethnic Georgians are forced to flee.
2014 Russia takes Crimea by force, after guaranteeing the territorial integrity of Ukraine when it surrendered it's nuclear weapons
(The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the Final Act of the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe, to respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine;
2. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their obligation to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or
political independence of Ukraine, and that none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except in self-defence )
Canard No.1:
Russia 'invaded' Georgia in 2008.
Georgia launched an attack, Russia responded.
Canard No. 2: Russia took Crimea by force.
Not a single shot was fired, the Russian military was legally in Crimea under the lease contract, there was no 'invasion' and the Crimeans voted for severing ties with the new Ukrainian administration in an open ballot.
Canard No.3:
Ukraine surrendered its nuclear weapons.
It had none. The USSR stored some of its arsenal on Ukrainian territory (and elsewhere, so that they cannot be wiped out in a single strike by an opponent).
To have nuclear capability, you also need command and control, plus delivery vehicles, of which Ukraine had none either.
Russia 'invaded' Georgia in 2008.
Georgia launched an attack, Russia responded.
Canard No. 2: Russia took Crimea by force.
Not a single shot was fired, the Russian military was legally in Crimea under the lease contract, there was no 'invasion' and the Crimeans voted for severing ties with the new Ukrainian administration in an open ballot.
Canard No.3:
Ukraine surrendered its nuclear weapons.
It had none. The USSR stored some of its arsenal on Ukrainian territory (and elsewhere, so that they cannot be wiped out in a single strike by an opponent).
To have nuclear capability, you also need command and control, plus delivery vehicles, of which Ukraine had none either.
1
NATO expansion makes sense from the US foreign policy standpoint. Powerful nation states like Russia and China must be shaped as national 'threat.'
Otherwise, why to pay -- mostly with foreign borrowed money -- for the most expensive war machine in the world IF the only enemy to fight is a rag tag bunch of crazy islamist fighters?
Otherwise, why to pay -- mostly with foreign borrowed money -- for the most expensive war machine in the world IF the only enemy to fight is a rag tag bunch of crazy islamist fighters?
4
This article makes no mention of any NATO actions that led to Russian reactions. Instead, it ascribes all tensions to Russian reactions.
I suppose it is true that if the Russians just took it without protest there would be no tensions. That is what Yeltsin did, and Yeltsin seems to have created an expectation that NATO could close in on Russia with no reaction.
One need not like Putin to see the sense in caution and fair dealing.
Putin is by nature a counter-puncher. He exploits opportunities, rather than having a long term plan. At most he has only a general sense of the direction he wants to go, and often he has less than that until he sees an opportunity. Crimea is a classic example of something he himself didn't foresee until he did it.
Against such an opponent, the hawkish aggression is the worst possible thing to do. The hawks start it, and Putin finishes it by responding in ways they never expected, never foresaw.
I suppose it is true that if the Russians just took it without protest there would be no tensions. That is what Yeltsin did, and Yeltsin seems to have created an expectation that NATO could close in on Russia with no reaction.
One need not like Putin to see the sense in caution and fair dealing.
Putin is by nature a counter-puncher. He exploits opportunities, rather than having a long term plan. At most he has only a general sense of the direction he wants to go, and often he has less than that until he sees an opportunity. Crimea is a classic example of something he himself didn't foresee until he did it.
Against such an opponent, the hawkish aggression is the worst possible thing to do. The hawks start it, and Putin finishes it by responding in ways they never expected, never foresaw.
6
@ Mark Thomason
"He exploits opportunities, rather than having a long term plan. At most he has only a general sense of the direction he wants to go, "
You've just contradicted yourself in two successive sentences by providing an accurate description of what constitutes any expansionist statesman's modus operandi. See Bismarck on the subject. Hitler, as A. J. P. Taylor rather controversially pointed out, behaved in exactly the same way
"He exploits opportunities, rather than having a long term plan. At most he has only a general sense of the direction he wants to go, "
You've just contradicted yourself in two successive sentences by providing an accurate description of what constitutes any expansionist statesman's modus operandi. See Bismarck on the subject. Hitler, as A. J. P. Taylor rather controversially pointed out, behaved in exactly the same way
4
Some expansionist statesmen have been far more directed by their own long term plans.
Bismarck was, he worked for creation of the Empire and then settled in to protect that.
Japan's Co-Prosperity Sphere was, a complete design of their hoped-for independent resource area.
Hitler wasn't, he was more like Putin.
Napoleon wasn't, he had not idea of how or where to stop.
It varies. There are both kinds.
Bismarck was, he worked for creation of the Empire and then settled in to protect that.
Japan's Co-Prosperity Sphere was, a complete design of their hoped-for independent resource area.
Hitler wasn't, he was more like Putin.
Napoleon wasn't, he had not idea of how or where to stop.
It varies. There are both kinds.
Clearly Putin and his gangster regime are intent on reversing the world order that emerged after the collapse of the Soviet Union. There's no particular reason why we or the NATO alliance should assist him in this endeavor.
8
"intent on reversing the world order"
Not at all. Their attention is far closer to home.
Not at all. Their attention is far closer to home.
3
@Mark Thomason
The old Soviet Imperium is HOME.
The old Soviet Imperium is HOME.
2
Agreed Mark...John is still fighting the cold war. John, the cold war is over...it was an eco. war. USA and USSR lost it, Japan and West Germany and now the rest of the world won it, Gorby ended it and the hawks in America and you John are still fighing it...
2
NAYO and the U.N. have totally outlived their usefulness....both should be disbanded
10
What the article failed to emphasize is that Montenegro began its accession process to NATO 9 years ago and undertook significant reforms in governance to qualify. Other NATO member states, recognizing the interests of the people of Montenegro in being part of the Euro Atlantic community and of an integrated Europe have agreed to further this process initiated by Montenegro by issuing the invitation. Such an invitation is a result of unanimous vote by the member states of NATO. It does not reflect the interests of a cabal of a few. Perhaps you take issue with the decision processes within NATO that are based on unanimous consent?
The UN provides an organized structure to address numerous problems facing the world community. It is not a world government but a working relationship, a work in progress to address shared problems.
You say NATO and the UN should be disbanded suggesting that there is a process to disband these organizations through some external agency. There is no external agency that can disband NATO or the UN. Only the will of the member states to leave the organization can lead to its dissolution. There is a waiting list of states that desire to join NATO but there is no significant opposition to NATO membership so it appears that both organizations will continue to fulfill their vital purposes into the foreseeable future.
The UN provides an organized structure to address numerous problems facing the world community. It is not a world government but a working relationship, a work in progress to address shared problems.
You say NATO and the UN should be disbanded suggesting that there is a process to disband these organizations through some external agency. There is no external agency that can disband NATO or the UN. Only the will of the member states to leave the organization can lead to its dissolution. There is a waiting list of states that desire to join NATO but there is no significant opposition to NATO membership so it appears that both organizations will continue to fulfill their vital purposes into the foreseeable future.
They are both now needed more than ever.
1
I agree. Though NATO can throw a LOT more weight around than individual nations, they still are too clumsy and hide-bound to do anything collectively at short notice. EU territory has been violated by a swarm, a pestilence, of illegal immigrants this year. What did NATO do? Nothing. Does anything in the NATO agreement mention invasion of sovereign territory of its member states? What if 600,000 Russian soldiers (unarmed) decided to just walk into Europe? Would NATO do anything besides sit in Brussels and debate and write white papers? I doubt it. Oh, yeah. 800,000 people have invaded the European continent in the past 8 months and the only NATO action this year has been a driving tour around eastern Europe. Show of force? Am sure the Russians are still laughing about it. They are used to making things happen. NATO (and the UN) is a joke.
1
Bush undertook illegal regime change in Iraq and the world howled in protest. Where is a similar response against the Obama regime for daring to think that it can take out Qaddafi and Assad simply because it wants to? The sheer arrogance of these American leaders is deeply troubling: Rule of law be damned.
14
Clearly, you folks in Russia are well versed in the Rule of Law. May the world not follow your example. Enjoy the Holidays ...
1
And Russia, so innocent! Nothing to see in Crimea, move along, right?
2
It's unfortunate that this article fails to address the true issues at hand here. No where is there any reference to the Saudi's interests regarding Syria, the American Administration's interest in having Assad from power as he wouldn't allow for infrastructure work to be done through their territory to supply Europe to diminish their dependence on Russian gas, the overtures towards Ukraine to draw them closer to the west as with Georgia and other satellite states surrounding the Russians 'near abroad' The belligerence of western intent is what has created much of the misery that has taken place in these regions. If this continues then war will be the likely outcome.
10
It is bizarre that you refer to Ukraine and Georgia as satellite states. They are sovereign countries and are not subordinate to the Russian Federation. They are not drawn to the West. Rather because of the threats from Russia they seek security in becoming part of the West. They would much prefer to live as part of Europe than to be corrupted appendages of Russia.
4
Well, at least that is an intelligent response .... you put some thought and effort into it .... and, paranoia does have its place in the world ... try to work on that inclination and maybe we can have a discussion. My point of view is that Putin and his friends need to retain power .... misinforming their people and blaming the world for their disasters .... encircling themselves with imaginary enemies is an old, tried and true path to maintaining control. Unoriginal. But, effective. And, not just the Russians have done it, if that is any consolation. Though, you poor folks do seem to get the worst of everything. Perhaps a Mindset Change is in order.
"Georgia and other satellite states surrounding the Russians 'near abroad' "
The vast majority of the states "surrouding" Russia are not NATO or even U.S. allies. Belarus, Azerbaijian, Kazakhstan, China, North Korea. U.S. satellites? Hardly.
The vast majority of the states "surrouding" Russia are not NATO or even U.S. allies. Belarus, Azerbaijian, Kazakhstan, China, North Korea. U.S. satellites? Hardly.
Since NATO is embracing Montenegro it would be a lovely time to let Turkey go free as a little bird.
7
To me its quite obvious: NATO are the Good Guys and Russia is the bad guy.
Its that simple and that being said The Good Guys have to defeat the bad guys. Its a John Wayne, GI Joe, Yankee team no brainer.
Its that simple and that being said The Good Guys have to defeat the bad guys. Its a John Wayne, GI Joe, Yankee team no brainer.
5
NATO are the good guys? Really? It seems to me, from the chaos in the Ukraine, Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria that NATO is more like the elephant in the room. What good has NATO done during the past 25 years?
2
The world is much more complex then diverting big powers like USA and Russia into a hollywood movie of "the good guy and the bad guy"
There are things to critizie both parts, its a nyanced view.
The only bad guy in this case is terrorism.
USA and Russia should compromize on their ideas and work as one unit to stop the insane terrorists in the middle east that is the REAL threat twoards us both.
There are things to critizie both parts, its a nyanced view.
The only bad guy in this case is terrorism.
USA and Russia should compromize on their ideas and work as one unit to stop the insane terrorists in the middle east that is the REAL threat twoards us both.
3
US is NATO, without US there is no NATO. These other nations that think they are of some importance, in reality they are nothing but dancing to the tunes of USA. Russia is maintaining it fake force image while US is building real. Without the equalizing of military and capital powers, the world will keep on plunging economically, morally and loose more lives than anybody has ever imagined.
2
Perhaps not militarily expanding all around Russia would be a good diplomatic strategy.
Unless you're a neoconservative, that is.
Unless you're a neoconservative, that is.
10
Yes it would.
2
Agreed CAF and bigruss, the cold war is over...
1
Montenegro is a tiny country that isn't even close to Russia. How is that "militarily expanding all around Russia" pray tell?
1
Let's be clear, VERY clear here. NATO was created in 1949, as an "alliance", but in reality, it was just the framework to make Western Europe's military occupation by the US permanent.
The bogey man was the USSR of course, but the Soviets never expanded their influence by military means Westward - they did it through elections.
This is why the CIA 'bought' the Italian vote in 1948, organised the overthrow of Mossadegh in Iran and provided assistance - both military and economic to the Communist dictatorship of Tito's Yugoslavia, only because of its 'independent' behaviour.
Note, that the Warsaw Pact only came into being in 1955. NATO (read: the US) did nothing to stop the Soviet tanks from rolling into Hungary in 1956, the raising of the Berlin wall in 1961, or their crushing Czechoslovakia in 1968.
When the USSR ceased to exist, NATO was left without a purpose. The bogeyman was gone, so the logical step would have been its dissolution, but that would have meant the end of the US overlordship of Europe.
So NATO was guven a new mandate, nation building.
Their first target was a nation, that needed no building, only help to transition from a dictatorship to democracy; instead NATO bombed them apart, unleashed a bloody war, that still simmers.
Next, they invaded Afghanistan and they are still there, soldiers are dying and the place is still far from being a functioning state, let alone a democracy.
Montenegro, has absolutely nothing to offer, other, than its territory.
The bogey man was the USSR of course, but the Soviets never expanded their influence by military means Westward - they did it through elections.
This is why the CIA 'bought' the Italian vote in 1948, organised the overthrow of Mossadegh in Iran and provided assistance - both military and economic to the Communist dictatorship of Tito's Yugoslavia, only because of its 'independent' behaviour.
Note, that the Warsaw Pact only came into being in 1955. NATO (read: the US) did nothing to stop the Soviet tanks from rolling into Hungary in 1956, the raising of the Berlin wall in 1961, or their crushing Czechoslovakia in 1968.
When the USSR ceased to exist, NATO was left without a purpose. The bogeyman was gone, so the logical step would have been its dissolution, but that would have meant the end of the US overlordship of Europe.
So NATO was guven a new mandate, nation building.
Their first target was a nation, that needed no building, only help to transition from a dictatorship to democracy; instead NATO bombed them apart, unleashed a bloody war, that still simmers.
Next, they invaded Afghanistan and they are still there, soldiers are dying and the place is still far from being a functioning state, let alone a democracy.
Montenegro, has absolutely nothing to offer, other, than its territory.
11
Yes 100%
1
Thank you for your understanding.
I'm sure you know, that the country I referred to, as the first experiment in nation-building was the US' BFF during the Cold War - Yugoslavia.
But that didn't stop them/NATO from bombing it to smithereens (former US commander, overseeing the intervention,Wesley Clark about destroying the bridge over the Danube in Novi Sad: " it was a strategic and legitimate target" - never mind, that it choked off the flow of commerce all across Europe, a large part of which is transacted on shipping on interconnected rivers, like the Rhine and the Danube).
Imagine, that all that terrible suffering, mass murder, ethnic cleansing and outright barbarity could have been avoided, had the West/NATO/US supported the Yugoslav federal leadership, instead of undermining it.
The entire European 'theatre' would look quite different today:
without NATO, but with a Pan-European, even Trans-Atlantic collective security system, of which both the US and Russia (and Ukraine and Germany and the UK and France, etc.) would be part of.
I'm sure you know, that the country I referred to, as the first experiment in nation-building was the US' BFF during the Cold War - Yugoslavia.
But that didn't stop them/NATO from bombing it to smithereens (former US commander, overseeing the intervention,Wesley Clark about destroying the bridge over the Danube in Novi Sad: " it was a strategic and legitimate target" - never mind, that it choked off the flow of commerce all across Europe, a large part of which is transacted on shipping on interconnected rivers, like the Rhine and the Danube).
Imagine, that all that terrible suffering, mass murder, ethnic cleansing and outright barbarity could have been avoided, had the West/NATO/US supported the Yugoslav federal leadership, instead of undermining it.
The entire European 'theatre' would look quite different today:
without NATO, but with a Pan-European, even Trans-Atlantic collective security system, of which both the US and Russia (and Ukraine and Germany and the UK and France, etc.) would be part of.
This is one of those situations where the lack of relevant experience by almost all the candidates running for President presents a dangerous scenario. I would like to see each one pushed for an explanation of his or her vision regarding the function of NATO, not slogans but logical analyses.
The administration needs to make a case for admitting Montenegro to NATO. Perhaps there is a good case to be made, perhaps not. Actually, the Administration needs to explain to the American people its view of the function of NATO in the current world. What is its geostrategic purpose?
That said, I'm glad to see the Leningrad trolls out again in these comments. I do hope they have a union that can negotiate decent pay and benefits for them.
The administration needs to make a case for admitting Montenegro to NATO. Perhaps there is a good case to be made, perhaps not. Actually, the Administration needs to explain to the American people its view of the function of NATO in the current world. What is its geostrategic purpose?
That said, I'm glad to see the Leningrad trolls out again in these comments. I do hope they have a union that can negotiate decent pay and benefits for them.
4
Stoltenberg is just an employee of the State Dept. He's a bonafide militery right wing extremist who follows orders from Kerry and the CIA and has for years. We won't let up until we have a war with Russia which will happen under Hillary's CIAed administration. No one will win - again.
5
I understand the political sensitivity around this; but no one should stay away from making alliances with anyoneone else. Any party is free to make alliance with any other party.
The only exception maybe if two parties are signatory (contractually written in paper and signed) that they would not bring a third or more party to the alliance. It would look like diluting the existing shareholders of existing deal and without shareholder votes and hence may be challenged.
In this case, there are no documents which bars NATO to grow.
So NATO should be free to grow.
PS: Also, I do not understand why people take some story around word of mouth of two politicians seriously. A country like US has checks and balances and there are members and institutions of government that would have drafted a deal had they needed to. In absence of such a signed deal, I would say NATO is free to grow.
The only exception maybe if two parties are signatory (contractually written in paper and signed) that they would not bring a third or more party to the alliance. It would look like diluting the existing shareholders of existing deal and without shareholder votes and hence may be challenged.
In this case, there are no documents which bars NATO to grow.
So NATO should be free to grow.
PS: Also, I do not understand why people take some story around word of mouth of two politicians seriously. A country like US has checks and balances and there are members and institutions of government that would have drafted a deal had they needed to. In absence of such a signed deal, I would say NATO is free to grow.
3
NATO needs provoke Russia so it can justify its own existence.
6
Really? Hmmmnn. The West would really prefer to spend its money elsewhere than to have a NATO .... It is you guys who need NATO. Putin would not be able to remain in power without it. And, you wouldn't have a job. ;-)
Please tell us how the membership of a tiny country over 2,000 km from Russia is a provocation to mighty Russia.
How many NATO nations actually border the north atlantic ?
4
I disagree with a few tucked in and snuggled up commenters, who with a cup of marshmallow hot chocolate in hand, warm blanket over their knees, with yule log in their fireplace crackling call to cuddle with a bear that is running rampant in the backyard, they should think about the bear plundering and destroying its neighbors in Ukraine, Moldova and Georgia since the collapse of the communist Russian Empire. Let's not forget hundreds of thousands killed and displaced from Eastern Ukraine, Moldova and Georgia because of Russia's wars against these nations. Is Russia more important to the West than its tiny, nonnuclear, neighbors? In an ideal world, there would be no need for neither Russia nor NATO, but we have such a world arrangement.
Congratulations to Montenegro, now it is time for NATO to invite Georgia.
Congratulations to Montenegro, now it is time for NATO to invite Georgia.
5
foolhardy at best. Imagine Russia attempting to bring Mexico into a military alliance....lol
5
The end result of that decision would mean war but the West has already been shown the door in Georgia...
5
You are all very quick to forget inconvenient facts for you. As the destruction of some countries in the Middle East founding member of NATO, and the chaos that you have created. u still may be biased ?
Whatever you do, we perceive as aggression (and this, logically, is) .. we do not trust you for your irresponsibility.
We must be to have a heart conversation .but you are not capable of, and analyze together what was happening. But the notorious "save face," you will never allow to do it. Your policy is too cowardly.
Sorry for English
Whatever you do, we perceive as aggression (and this, logically, is) .. we do not trust you for your irresponsibility.
We must be to have a heart conversation .but you are not capable of, and analyze together what was happening. But the notorious "save face," you will never allow to do it. Your policy is too cowardly.
Sorry for English
1
It appears our foreign policy continues to be the same disastrous changing of regimes we indulged in in Iraq, Libya, Syria and now Russia. Are we really against ISIS when it is useful against Russia?
6
How does admitting Montenegro to NATO enhance anyone's security? Seriously. After Paris, this is yet another in a series of provocations to derail an anti-terror alliance between Russia and the west.
7
NATO membership enhances Montenegro's security. Montenegro wants to join and it is in their interests to do so. It is not Russia's business what alliances a sovereign state wants to join.
I dunno why Russia's mad...Montenegro is so inconsequential it wasn't even mentioned in the headline
3
NATO is outdated and now risks further degrading relations with Russia. What a bad timing!
2
Absolutely, why the need to provoke? As far as Europe is concerned, a good and friendly relationship with Russia is the only way for stability, growth and peace.
4
Full credit to Montenegro deciding that it's on the side of freedom rather than be bullied by the Russian bear. It's just the continuation of the Great Game. If you live in Eastern Europe, you know NATO is not a dinosaur, it's your only protection!
5
There were huge riots in Montenegro recently, because common people hate NATO. But NATO doesn't care about real democracy when such great geopolitical goals are at stake. There is no place for such aggressive blocs with outdated agenda as NATO in the 21st century.
6
Does NATO want a land for another military base? There have been thousands of people protesting in the Montenegro against joining NATO. It's been 16 years since Montenegro was bombed by NATO, and these memories are surely still fresh in the minds of many locals there. The opposition has demanded a referendum on the membership in the military alliance. The decision to join NATO is done by Montenegro lawmakers, the elite are doing things that people don’t want. If NATO is an alliance of democracies – why not have a referendum?
7
Why not have a referendum to see if Chechnya should be independent? Why not have a referendum to see if Russians really want Russia to bomb Syrian rebels? Why not have a referendum to see if Russia should give its citizens $1,000 each? You obviously have no idea what democracy is, if you think a definition is to have a referendum for everything.
Simple question: why? How is this going to make the world a safer place? We should be looking for more ways to cooperate, not more ways to provoke. And the timing just cannot be worse after a NATO member Turkey downed the Russian plane. The world today is getting more and more volatile and unstable. Do our leaders have any vision of the world or just keep doing what does not work?
8
Russia is the enemy. Get used to it.
4
Hmmmm! Could you perhaps elaborate on this statement?
1
FOHP...Clausewitz is still fighting the cold war. He doesn't know it is over, modern day version of the Japanese soldiers who hid out in the SW Pacific jungles..
2
The proposed expansion of Nato is a provocative act, especially as it comes on the heels of the Turkish downing of a Russian Jet and Obama's statement, after the shooting, that Turkey had the "right to defend itself" even though the Russian Jet was over Turkish airspace for just seconds and harbored no hostile intent.
7
Please tell us how the membership of a tiny country that's over 2,000km from Russia is a provocation.
We have a terrible inability to see the world from any viewpoint except our own. The Warsaw Pact disintegrated and all non-Soviet members joined NATO. The Soviet Union disintegrated and 3 former Soviet Republics joined NATO. We are building a missile defense system in eastern Europe that will give us considerable control over Russian airspace. We helped foment an anti-Russian revolution in Ukraine, a country as important to Russia as Canada is to us. Russia is as desperate as we would be in similar circumstances. We are risking nuclear war.
In addition, we are sacrificing the one thing we need most from Russia--cooperation on preventing nuclear proliferation. NATO should not expand any further.
In addition, we are sacrificing the one thing we need most from Russia--cooperation on preventing nuclear proliferation. NATO should not expand any further.
5
A missile defense system has no "control over Russian airspace." That makes no sense.
I have an idea! Let's examine some of our more toxic allegiances that put us squarely in the Middle East - you know, the ones with Saudi Arabia or Kuwait - rather than re-play the old cold war drama. Granted, Russia should not have invaded the Ukraine, but I don't think Russia isn't offering material support to jihadists the way those oil- rich monarchies are. Someone needs to take away Kerry's copy of the Hunt for Red October.
3
Montenegro may have "little military capacity" but for a pittance, they will gladly accept NATO military bases on their territory. They are but a pawn in America's bid to hang on to its fading hegemony (never mind that we're rotting from the inside - see latest shooting as it unfolds).
Our so called leaders are playing dangerous games; as another reader noted, it is through a complicated system of alliances such as NATO that WW1 started. The situation today seems just as volatile.
Here is what I just don't understand: who are these people, sitting around the table in the picture, with Kerry looking like some tough guy? Why are they leading us to the very edge of the abyss? Blind arrogance? Ideology? Sold-out souls? And most importantly, why are we letting them do it?
Our so called leaders are playing dangerous games; as another reader noted, it is through a complicated system of alliances such as NATO that WW1 started. The situation today seems just as volatile.
Here is what I just don't understand: who are these people, sitting around the table in the picture, with Kerry looking like some tough guy? Why are they leading us to the very edge of the abyss? Blind arrogance? Ideology? Sold-out souls? And most importantly, why are we letting them do it?
Unfortunately I believe you have touched on part of the answer. Western influence has been fading for some time now. The United States and Europe are teetering on the brink of imminent financial collapse with only our true rulers (the bankers) allowing for us to remain intact (as this also serves their best interests) in order for the West to seek an avenue to avoid the historic collapse which will likely occur despite the delaying tactics of the West to seek new territory/resources/influence...
1
It's laughable that the membership of a tiny country country 2,000 km from Russia is "leading us to the very edge of the abyss."
Sarjevo, June 28, 1914. Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it. Still laughing?
It's simple:
NATO should replace Turkey with Russia.
NATO should replace Turkey with Russia.
Perhaps the SOLUTION would be to Invite Russia to Join NATO.
19
Then Russia would destroy the alliance from within. Make now mistake about it, Russia's consistent actions before and since Putin take power show that it is hegemonistic and a threat to its' neighbors.
3
NATO is defense structure created to provide collective security against Russian (Kremlin) aggression.
3
G...the cold war is over...Russia only objective now is to reclaim certain russian speaking/ethnic parts of the union that she lost like east ukraine and crimea...just like we would do if south texas left the union and joined Mexico...
NATO is a dinosaur from the past and should be disbanded. Especially in light of rogue actions such as the recent Turkey shoot down.
21
Surely you jest. Russia has had a generational conflict with the West, really for eons, in part to gain access to warm water ports, like the Crimea. It just took Crimea by force of arms. As a result, the West imposed sanctions; what it did is a dangerous and destablilizing precedcent. As the USSR did by arms, Russia's goal now, too, is a slow annexation of free Europe in bits and pieces.
Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Wanting peace does not guarantee it. Your good intentions may not be matched by others. I know of no one, right or left, who trusts Mr. Putin.
Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Wanting peace does not guarantee it. Your good intentions may not be matched by others. I know of no one, right or left, who trusts Mr. Putin.
3
And I know of few who are truly aware of the intent of the American and European Plutocracies who would trust them either...
The U.S. should withdraw from NATO and be a 3rd party between Russia and the west.
3
I thought that's what we are now?
1
Russia is North Korea on larger territory.
Degraded 3d world country with no economy or infrastructure.
Record holder in the World in heroin use and alcoholism.
Economy is 1/18 of economy of the USA.
In fact N. Korea has somewhat greater economy in proportion to population that Russia.
What was the reason again for US to "withdraw from NATO and be a 3rd party between Russia and the west."?
Degraded 3d world country with no economy or infrastructure.
Record holder in the World in heroin use and alcoholism.
Economy is 1/18 of economy of the USA.
In fact N. Korea has somewhat greater economy in proportion to population that Russia.
What was the reason again for US to "withdraw from NATO and be a 3rd party between Russia and the west."?
1
That is what we could be but Obama has to appease the hawk part of his party like Hillary...
The sole purpose of NATO was to prevent a resurgence of a militaristic Germany and to keep the communists out of Western Europe.
After the Soviet Union did the the world a solid favor by forswearing communism and dissolving itself bloodlessly, NATO should have been scrapped and a new collective security agreement drawn up with Russia as a co-sponsor the largest military power in Europe.
Yet, 25 years later, NATO lives on as a 70 year old zombie organization whose sole aim seems to provoke and rekindle the old antagonisms with Russia.
NATO makes no sense.
After the Soviet Union did the the world a solid favor by forswearing communism and dissolving itself bloodlessly, NATO should have been scrapped and a new collective security agreement drawn up with Russia as a co-sponsor the largest military power in Europe.
Yet, 25 years later, NATO lives on as a 70 year old zombie organization whose sole aim seems to provoke and rekindle the old antagonisms with Russia.
NATO makes no sense.
23
NATO was not created "to prevent a resurgence of a militaristic Germany." NATO was developed as a bulwark against the Soviet Union and communism. Period. The Federal Republic of Germany became a NATO member in 1955 - hardly something that would have happened if Western European countries and the U.S. were fearful of Germany.
Nobody is forcing Montenegro to join the alliance. They can always reject the "invitation". They could by now have joined a Russian economic and/or military alliance but no they prefer to join the EU and NATO. IF Russia were a peace loving, democratic democracy Poland, Baltic States, etc.. would not have joined NATO. Who do we thing they fear? After Ukraine their fears have come true and no Eastern European country is eager to become another Russian satellite.
4
This is stunningly simplistic. Russia has natural antagonisms w the West and our good intentions will not solve those inherent differences, To think otherwise is to court disaster!
Is NATO governed by sociopaths? Maybe... What if there was genuine concern about global security and after the collapse of the USSR, NATO would offer it a membership. Even Putin back in 2000 in an interview had positive remarks about such a deal, however he was receptive only if Russia was to be treated as an equal. NATO does not treat its members equally, but Russia joining NATO would eliminate the specter of WWIII probably permanently. If only the Wall Street elites and Russian oligarchs would join together, but this is mere fantasy, for sociopaths understand only fear to abstain from their greed. There has to be a way to scare the elites without a global pandemic or nuclear holocaust...
4
Never happen as the Russian oligarchs are constantly at odds with the Western Oligarchs...
1
In all the discussion of Russia's entitlements and Russia's interests, there seems to be little regard for Montenegro's security and Montenegro's sovereignty. As usual in international politics, the little guy seems to have the least say in its own fate.
Perhaps there are justified reasons why so many of Russia's smaller neighbors want to join NATO?
Perhaps there are justified reasons why so many of Russia's smaller neighbors want to join NATO?
14
Involvement in the Balkans is what lead to WWI. This piece of real-estate has been called the, "Powder Keg of Europe" for good reason. If NATO wants eternal war, then permanently getting into the Balkans will do it.
1
That we should pledge to go to war to defend any of the Balkan states seems to me very unwise. These states are unstable to say the least. Remember Bismark said that nothing in the Balkans was worth the life of even one German soldier. Let's update that by saying nothing there is worth the life of even one American soldier.
1
"Perhaps there are justified reasons why so many of Russia's smaller neighbors want to join NATO?"
Wouldn't you if someone offered you protection? Who will be paying for this? U.S. Taxpayers.
Wouldn't you if someone offered you protection? Who will be paying for this? U.S. Taxpayers.
Just a plain stupid and unnecessary provocation at this already critical time...but then again there might be an underlying plan to keep Europe away from Russia at a time when some of its leaders seem to soften their stance towards Putin. And that would be mainly for economic reasons
4
Who knew Russia would sent covert troops to the Ukraine or Crimea to literally take over? We have been provoked, not the other way around.
2
Except for extreme-rightist and extreme-leftist parties and groups in western Europe, there is actually tremendous support for NATO. Russia must be isolated. That might not sit well with the Kremlin's friends, but their ilk are in the minority.
1
How is the NATO membership of Montenegro, a tiny country over 2,000 km from Russia a provocation?
It is something of the mutual feedback cycle. Russia is mired in the mind set of Great Powers politics of the 19th century. It is a Great Power, so it should have a sphere of influence containing countries near itself, regardless of what those countries want.
Because of this Russian mindset, those countries near Russia feels the need for powerful friends. That's why so many Eastern European countries wanted and still want to join NATO. Sure, Russia might see Montenegro, or Latvia, or Poland, as being within as part of its sphere of influence. But I doubt the people and government of those countries feel the same way.
But as those countries enter NATO, Russia grows more paranoid, talking about "encirclement" and goes for even more aggressive bluster. Russia's smaller neighbors' fears then seem quite justified, and so it goes on.
Because of this Russian mindset, those countries near Russia feels the need for powerful friends. That's why so many Eastern European countries wanted and still want to join NATO. Sure, Russia might see Montenegro, or Latvia, or Poland, as being within as part of its sphere of influence. But I doubt the people and government of those countries feel the same way.
But as those countries enter NATO, Russia grows more paranoid, talking about "encirclement" and goes for even more aggressive bluster. Russia's smaller neighbors' fears then seem quite justified, and so it goes on.
9
How about we ask Turkey to leave NATO so that we can support the Kurds? At least the Kurds are fighting ISIL, which is more than can be said for the Turks. We might even be able to acknowledge the Armenian genocide that way.
2
Don't forget that many of these areas are related due to language and history (i.e.: Slavic language, Cyrillic alphabet etc). There should be some concern of repeating the historical mistakes that led up the the Napoleonic conflicts (separating people without regard for their cultural / language identities).
What came first, the chicken or the egg?
What we do know for sure is that after WWII, the USSR took over half of Europe at gunpoint. It had the opportunity to live w the West in peace then and did not do so.
Indeed, when the US had the bomb and the USSR did not, the US did not use it to roll back the USSR: a sign of good faith above all. They are not our friends.
What we do know for sure is that after WWII, the USSR took over half of Europe at gunpoint. It had the opportunity to live w the West in peace then and did not do so.
Indeed, when the US had the bomb and the USSR did not, the US did not use it to roll back the USSR: a sign of good faith above all. They are not our friends.
1
If the Russians are pissed over Montenegro, to the north of Albania, being offered NATO membership, just wait until Ukraine is offered membership.
Add Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and a few others, as well.
Let the Russians scream and shout.
That is basically their way of dealing with the world.
Add Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and a few others, as well.
Let the Russians scream and shout.
That is basically their way of dealing with the world.
6
Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania are already in NATO.....
1
Self correction:
Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania are NATO members.
Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania are NATO members.
1
Hooray for the U.S of A. - riling Russia again, just when it needs their help, again!
19
Why? Why Montenegro? Like Albania before it, why are we bringing this country into NATO. Admittedly it's not as crazy as the idea of admitting Georgia or, heaven forbid, Ukraine, but Montenegro adds nothing to the alliance and obligates us to defend their interests.
NATO is a mutual self-defense treaty, is the USA really committed to go to war for Montenegro? I understand the idea that NATO membership is supposed to help consolidate democracy and good governance, but there are other ways of doing it (the EU for example). All this does is antagonize Russia.
And don't think the Russian reaction is all about Putin. The have been angry about NATO expansion since 1992. We forced the disillusion of the Soviet Bloc, gobbled up its members and are now literally on their border. It's taken 20 years, but the Russians are once again asserting themselves on the international stage.
NATO is a mutual self-defense treaty, is the USA really committed to go to war for Montenegro? I understand the idea that NATO membership is supposed to help consolidate democracy and good governance, but there are other ways of doing it (the EU for example). All this does is antagonize Russia.
And don't think the Russian reaction is all about Putin. The have been angry about NATO expansion since 1992. We forced the disillusion of the Soviet Bloc, gobbled up its members and are now literally on their border. It's taken 20 years, but the Russians are once again asserting themselves on the international stage.
6
We are not "bringing in" countries. Countries are asking to join NATO. These are sovereign nations and could have just as easily tried to form an alliance with Russia, yet they chose to join NATO.
The only contribution Montenegro will make to NATO will be to anger Russia.
5
Though somewhat hyperbolic, Adm. Vladimir Komoyedov's point (that "They “are ready to admit even the North Pole to NATO just for the sake of encircling Russia”) is well taken.
2
Once the North Pole sea ice melts, Russia will have what it has craved for 300 years: warm water access to the seas. At that point, it will possibly cease its interest in So European ports/land.
1
"undermine the post-Cold War order" I want to undermine the Post Cold War Order! I am sick of NATO and their ORDER, it is not mine, it is not ours. I don't know anyone that agrees with this ORDER. I would personally poke a stick in Kerry's bicycle spokes while he's rounding a sharp corner, heading down hill if I could dis band this mentally deranged order that continues to try and drag their post WWII agendas into my grandchild's future. These old men stirring up the Euro zone to be paranoid about the Russians is from WWII not now, not in this era. NATO needs to be disbanded. They know that is what we are thinking and they are afraid of losing their little fiefdoms is all.
6
This is stunningly naive. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it again and again and again.
2
A lot of comments seem angry and disappointed about allowing Montenegro to enter NATO alliance because its 'weakening' or 'antagonizing' Russia. Russia on the other hand forcibly invaded and took over most of Eastern and parts of Southern Europe after WWII and these tiny countries are suitably terrified of being gobbled up by the Russian Bear again, especially in reaction to Russia's belligerent actions since Putin came on the scene. Joining NATO only prevents Russia from being aggressive to its neighbors and if Russia was a normal, rational state, peace loving state, tiny Montenegro joining NATO would not cause Russia to be angry and fearful.
The NATO states are not NAZI states, out to destroy Russia but to stop Russia's irrational and imperialistic aggression. Russia since losing its Soviet States have been bullying Ukraine, Georgia, Chechnya, Moldova, Lithuania, Estonia, and Latvia and I would be scrambling to join NATO too if I was a tiny defenseless country and a former Soviet State.
The NATO states are not NAZI states, out to destroy Russia but to stop Russia's irrational and imperialistic aggression. Russia since losing its Soviet States have been bullying Ukraine, Georgia, Chechnya, Moldova, Lithuania, Estonia, and Latvia and I would be scrambling to join NATO too if I was a tiny defenseless country and a former Soviet State.
17
A good many of thee comments you cite are from Russians posing as "concerned Americans." Their off usage of the English language is as suspect as their lofty opinions of Putin and consorts. Don't believe everything you read in any attached Comments section about Russia. I see the same kinds of posts in the European press, which I read in 4 languages. Their talking points don't change; they are orchestrated.
3
Why this, why now? Each time we make some infinitesimal move toward reducing tensions it's some new "irritant", hmmmm.
8
The administration needs to make a case for admitting Montenegro to NATO. Perhaps there is a good case to be made, perhaps not. Actually, the Administration needs to explain to the American people its view of the function of NATO in the current world. What is its geostrategic purpose?
This is one of those situations where the lack of relevant experience by almost all the candidates running for President presents a scary proposition. I would like to see each one pushed for an explanation of his or her vision regarding the function of NATO, not slogans but logical analyses.
That said, I'm glad to see the Leningrad trolls out again in these comments. I do hope they have a union that can negotiate decent pay and benefits for them.
This is one of those situations where the lack of relevant experience by almost all the candidates running for President presents a scary proposition. I would like to see each one pushed for an explanation of his or her vision regarding the function of NATO, not slogans but logical analyses.
That said, I'm glad to see the Leningrad trolls out again in these comments. I do hope they have a union that can negotiate decent pay and benefits for them.
4
This is Pure Political Posturing. Montenegro and Russia's best bud - Serbia, were part of a union until 2006. The only thing I can think of that Montenegro can offer NATO - is to allow a NATO military presence along its border with Serbia (and remember Serbia is not an EU member). Last year the Serbian and Russian forces did military exercises together.
Are we so ill-equipped to deal with Putin, that this is how we go about it? I don't know, but making Montenegro a part of NATO seems to smack of desperation, and I didn't think we were that desperate for new friends.
Are we so ill-equipped to deal with Putin, that this is how we go about it? I don't know, but making Montenegro a part of NATO seems to smack of desperation, and I didn't think we were that desperate for new friends.
6
Perhaps the people of Montenegro do feel a sense of desperation so they undertook the major reforms to qualify for NATO membership. After 9 years NATO members by unanimous vote agreed to issue an invitation to Montenegro. No desperation on the part of NATO, just a commitment to honor the people that share similar values by inviting their membership in the alliance.
Why are you only looking at one side? Why do you say nothing about what NATO can offer Montenegro? Montenegro applied to join. It is a sovereign country that wants to improve its security. They could have just as easily joined in an alliance with Russia, but they chose to join NATO.
Russia, population 143,000,000, has an economy smaller than Canada's economy. Canada's population is 35,160,000. Think about that fact.
Russia ... the other white noise.
Russia ... the other white noise.
9
You are right, but Russia has a nuclear arsenal and an army second only to the US, that's why they can make all the noises they want.
1
There is an old expression that may now have more meaning, "don't poke the bear." With the turmoil in the ME, now is certainly the time to pay heed to that advice.
6
Or so we thought until Russia took over Ukraine and Crimea and South Georgia by arms.
Uh, nyet, it's time we stood up to the Russian bear.
Uh, nyet, it's time we stood up to the Russian bear.
2
If every country joined NATO there'd be no wars. Or one very big one.
3
I think that after the embarrassing actions of the United States State Department since 2008, the Obama-Kerry (Clinton) troika thinks they need to stick something in Russia's eye. All the drawing lines in the sand hasn't worked
so let's bring in a Nation to the UN, that nobody ever heard of, but has always been under Russian influence. NOW WHAT?
so let's bring in a Nation to the UN, that nobody ever heard of, but has always been under Russian influence. NOW WHAT?
2
Montenegro was only under the Russia boot when Yugoslavia was dominated by the USSR.
NATO needs a new name - as it has spread FAR beyond the "North Atlantic". This things all seem to work like the street gangs that were around when I was growing up.
Really? Do the Neo-Cons and globalists have nothing better to do than to continue to antagonize and aggravate Russia? What benefit can having a tiny country like Montenegro in NATO possibly be? Most of the countries already in NATO are unwilling to pay for their own defense and let Uncle Sam pay the bills now. Does America need even more foreign dependents? This is just crazy! NATO will not even muster its forces to stop the ongoing migrant invasion of Europe via land and sea and they want to add another useless, helpless member? Maybe this is similar to the old book and movie "The Mouse That Roared" where a little European Grand Duchy plays off the U.S.A. and U.S.S.R. in the late 1950s to extract as much financial aid as possible from both the eagle and the bear. Or in a more sinister vein it seems the New World Order has not learned anything from its defeat in trying to establish a forward base against Russia in the Ukraine and is now going to attempt to do the same in the former Yugoslavia. At a time when Russia's help is desperately needed to destroy ISIS, end the Syrian civil war, stop the ongoing invasion of Europe, and cooperate on the Iran anti-nuclear deal, Obama and Kerry and their corporate masters have decided that all of this is "immaterial and irrelevant", "Fools rush in where angels fear to tread". With the U.S. over extended financially and militarily and crushed by government and private debt, do the Neo Cons and One World Gang really want another Cold War?
7
Fury and threats from Russia!! Yawn.......So how come nations are so eager to join NATO? If the Russians are so cool and hip and oppressed by the evil West, why aren't countries flocking to join RUSSIA in some sort of mutual defense alliance? The question kind of answers itself, doesn't it?
11
Montenegro may have "little military capacity" but for a pittance, they will gladly accept NATO military bases on their territory. They are but a pawn in America's bid to hang on to its fading hegemony (never mind that we're rotting from the inside - see latest shooting as it unfolds).
Our so called leaders are playing dangerous games; as another reader noted, it is through a complicated system of alliances such as NATO that WW1 started. The situation today seems just as volatile.
Here is what I just don't understand: who are these people, sitting around the table in the picture, with Kerry looking like some tough guy? Why are they leading us to the very edge of the abyss? Blind arrogance? Ideology? Sold-out souls? And most importantly, why are we letting them do it?
Our so called leaders are playing dangerous games; as another reader noted, it is through a complicated system of alliances such as NATO that WW1 started. The situation today seems just as volatile.
Here is what I just don't understand: who are these people, sitting around the table in the picture, with Kerry looking like some tough guy? Why are they leading us to the very edge of the abyss? Blind arrogance? Ideology? Sold-out souls? And most importantly, why are we letting them do it?
13
It is called peace through security. Regrettably we are not friends w the entire world. Take the world as it is, not as you would like it to be. Real Politik is real.
1
I do believe you got it there. "Sold-out souls".
Hopefully, Putin will be last leader of the Soviet Union.
6
The USSR is long gone. It is now Mother Russia. Which is to say it is the same milk in a new bottle. Russia is a despotism dressed up as an oligarchy. The USSR was a despotism dressed up in brotherly Communism.
1
This is just rubbing salt into the wound. Would any NATO country start a war with Russia in Europe? Not a single one, including us.
Nothing but smugness on behalf of chest thumping intellectually challenged old men.
Nothing but smugness on behalf of chest thumping intellectually challenged old men.
7
No, but Russia might start a war with a non-NATO country.
And a non-NATO country might start a war with Russia (See Georgia and Ukraine for both examples).
No we can be sure that Russia will start no wars with Montenegro and vice versa.
And a non-NATO country might start a war with Russia (See Georgia and Ukraine for both examples).
No we can be sure that Russia will start no wars with Montenegro and vice versa.
4
Um. The last time I looked at NATO member countries, they include ALL of the former Eastern Bloc countries, all three Baltic countries, and (so far) Croatia and Slovenia and now Montenegro among the former Yugoslavia countries. What's the big deal about Montenegro? None.
Looking at the map, it is well to the west of NATO members Romania and Bulgaria, not to mention Greece and Turkey. There is clearly a residue of chagrin that Montenegro, as well as Kosovo, both broke away from Serbia over the past 15 years, but even Serbia is more and more linked directly with Europe vs. Russia.
Another note: For their own reasons, very "Western" countries Sweden, Finland, Austria, Switzerland and Ireland are not NATO members. [They are all EU members with the exception of Switzerland.]
Looking at the map, it is well to the west of NATO members Romania and Bulgaria, not to mention Greece and Turkey. There is clearly a residue of chagrin that Montenegro, as well as Kosovo, both broke away from Serbia over the past 15 years, but even Serbia is more and more linked directly with Europe vs. Russia.
Another note: For their own reasons, very "Western" countries Sweden, Finland, Austria, Switzerland and Ireland are not NATO members. [They are all EU members with the exception of Switzerland.]
5
And Sweden, though not a member, cooperates closely with NATO - even participating in joint exercises. A growing percentage of Swedes are in favor of joining NATO.
2
unspecified retaliatory measures means they don't know what Montenegro export product they will ban
6
I'm not sure there are any exports to ban.
1
I realize that some Russians might feel an affinity with their "Slav" brothers in the Balkans and that Russia has historically been somewhat paranoid about not having enough access to "warm water" ports, but frankly, I think Putin is just reaching for reasons to be offended.
Look at a map. Montenegro is closer to the border with Russia than Chicago is, but it's not that close, and strategically doesn't offer much, if any threat.
As for the Montenegrins, if I had a neighbor with a history of behaving like Serbia has, I think I'd sleep a little easier as a NATO member.
Look at a map. Montenegro is closer to the border with Russia than Chicago is, but it's not that close, and strategically doesn't offer much, if any threat.
As for the Montenegrins, if I had a neighbor with a history of behaving like Serbia has, I think I'd sleep a little easier as a NATO member.
14
Good move by NATO and Montenegro. Looking at the map, Montenegro is 2000km away from Russia, but it clocks the access to Adriatic sea to the lone remaining Russian ally in the region - Serbia.
6
NATO expansion in Europe? Navy ships cruising past Chinese emplacements in the South China Sea? (Some boots) on the ground to engage ISIS? I guess this all means that Barack Obama is yet another liberal mugged by reality.
1
The US and NATO are doing nothing - zero - to provoke Russia. Russia has no excuse - none- to be in Crimea and/or other parts of the Ukraine or to be acting aggressively toward the US or NATO. Putin is trying, unsuccessfully, to create a new Russian empire with himself, as Tsar, and his kleptocrat friends looting the riches of the Russian people. Putin's policies are doing irreparable harm to Russia and its people. Putin is concerned he will lose power when the Russian people catch on to his con game and is therefore doubling down on his game by expanding his aggression. [Amazing that Putin is paying for so many propaganda comments in the American press to an event so meaningless to Russia.]
17
Sorry, Birdsong, you are wrong. The West is indeed provoking Russia (note: I'm not a Russian troll). We are threatening Russia with our most powerful weapon. Free thinking. Apparently, in Russia thinking is directed by the state, it's primary goal bring to shore up the legitimacy of the state. We threaten this. Very sad. Losing proposition for everyone, especially the wonderful Russian people (who deserve better). Apparently Putin was absent from school the day they taught the reasons for the demise of the Soviet Union. I miss the days when Russia was our friend.
1
Russia has every rigt to Crim'. They have a right to Novorossiya. They have a right to defend Assad and the Syrian people. NATO is a paper tiger. When Le Pen runs France NATO is finished. The US had no rightto be in Central America, SouthAmerica, Asia and Europe. No right to overthrow a democratically elected government in Kiev. The US is a has been empire of deathand when she collapses, the world will be a much better place.
6
Odd. Russia has every right and the US none. Go peddle it elsewhere Commisar!
1
Russia is effectively having an extended tantrum and it needs a time-out. It does what it wants and then gets overheated when other countries respond in turn. This isn't foreign policy so much as pique over the new realities of western Europe, and I doubt Europe will fall for it. Montenegro isn't within Russia's sphere of influence and is a logical addition to the alliance -- as is neighboring Bosnia and Herzegovina (which I suspect will also receive an invitation).
8
The admission of such small countries is against the interests of NATO. Just to poke the NATO, what happens if Russia bombs Montenegro. Is U.S going to bomb Russia? This does not serve the interests of any country including Montenegro.
5
Regardless of whether inviting Montenegro to join NATO is a good idea in principal, it is a bad idea right now when Russia and the U.S. have to cooperate in order for there to be any hope of a political solution in Syria. The U.S. and the Europeans knew quite well that Russia would resent this action. But for some reason, some people like to twist Putin's tail. They must think that will be beneficial in the long run. I doubt that, but it cannot be good for the near future, when progress on Syria has to be made in December.
5
So, you take a wounded bear, and then you rub salt in the wound... you don't expect some sort of violent response? I'll tell you, our leaders, no matter the party, seem to think that A paranoid Russia, going back to the days of the tsars, going back to Lenin, going back to Stalin, and then having sand kicked in its' face by Reagan, and now being led by this scary Putin, is eventually not going to respond violently sooner or later? I'm 65, and remember Berlin, the Cuban Missile crisis, the early 1980s when Raygun scared the stuffing out of the Russians. Does a younger generation of Americans and Europeans? We stand up to the bear with a lot of bravado... I'd rather it be with brains and a sense of history.
9
Russia is a nation, not a bear.
This a lazy, tired analogy.
This a lazy, tired analogy.
3
NATO has outlived its purpose when the wall came down. It can only tangle us into military endeavors where we have no national security interests. We do not need this organization, especially with a member such as Turkey playing both sides of a war on terror.
15
We do need "this organization" -- and so do Poland and the Baltic republics. Putin's Russia remains a threat to Europe, and hundreds of millions of Europeans can't be wrong. That's why NATO will endure.
4
We keep making inroads into what Russia considers its sphere of influence and threatening it with the proximity of NATO nations. This is partly what led to the annexation of Crimea and the problems in Ukraine. And this addition of Montenegro to NATO doesn't really help NATO or the US.
I'm not sure what this administration doesn't understand about that. They are playing with fire when we need Russians in Syria. But yet again, we keep pushing for the removal of Assad.
Will somebody please tell someone in our government that they need to consider what is geopolitically good for the US FIRST? Before they try to form alliances and go to protect the rights of people that are not American?
This is going to be a disaster going forward. Hopefully for not much more than 2016.
I'm not sure what this administration doesn't understand about that. They are playing with fire when we need Russians in Syria. But yet again, we keep pushing for the removal of Assad.
Will somebody please tell someone in our government that they need to consider what is geopolitically good for the US FIRST? Before they try to form alliances and go to protect the rights of people that are not American?
This is going to be a disaster going forward. Hopefully for not much more than 2016.
10
Is tiny Montenegro, with a population of 600,000, a threat to Russia? Does it have an arsenal of nuclear tipped cruise missiles aimed at Moscow? I don't think so.
As an independent nation, the decision of whether to join NATO belongs to the Montenegrans and those who invited them to join!
As an independent nation, the decision of whether to join NATO belongs to the Montenegrans and those who invited them to join!
6
What business is it of Russia's? That's a long way from the Russian border - at least from where the border is now. But maybe Putin intends to move the border again?
8
Mr. Obama snubbed Mr. Putin by casting doubts on his intentions in Syria, and this NATO news is Putin's first opportunity to strike back. The autocrats who rule Russia and China use recognition by the West to demonstrate their legitimacy at home, and feel their legitimacy is challenged when they're snubbed.
1
"little military capacity"? Those guys are tough!
2
NATO is a threat to world peace and should be disbanded. The USA promised Russia during the Bush Administration, at the time of the dissolution of the Soviet Union, when Germany was joining NATO, that NATO would not expand east of Germany. Russia is justified in its opposition to NATO expansion, including expansion right to the border with Russia. NATO was formed to counter the perceived threat of the Soviet Union to Western Europe and the USA. The Soviet Union no longer exists. NATO is now clearly an aggressor in the world. NATO is the military spearhead of USA and European business interests, including in industries that benefit directly from military spending. NATO should be disbanded.
22
NATO the aggressor? How do you explain the Russian invasions of Georgia, eastern Ukraine and Crimea, all the while bleating about territorial integrity. Russia carved out South Ossetia and Abkhazia from Georgia and installed puppet governments that are recognized by only three other states -- Nicaragua, Nauru, and Venezuela. No wonder Russia's neighbors are nervous about their security.
10
The explanation is right in front of us - it is in the title of this very article. Both Georgia and Ukraine were heading to NATO membership. US was training Georgian army, for Pete's sake. No better way to provoke Russian aggression than to extend an invitation to an alliance whose goal is to contain Russia.
Is it really prudent to expand NATO so soon after Turkey shot down a Russian combat jet? This is clear brinkmanship which will only goad Putin into a more aggressive stance. It is obvious that Russia and NATO cannot go to war. Or does NATO really believe that it can win a limited war against Russia while avoiding a nuclear armageddon?
18
One thing is for certain. Truth is somewhere in the world but not in the world of politics.
"Avoid political parties; they will cause divisive factions and unscrupulous men will use them to undermine the government."- fr. George Washington's Farewell Address
Those who seek to run the world need to quickly understand that which gives form, and function, to their own bodies actually runs the show. Thus, our Unitary Existence demands that our consciousness emerge to a higher state of understanding, and reverence, for Cosmic Law, or "we shall perish together as fools"!
"Avoid political parties; they will cause divisive factions and unscrupulous men will use them to undermine the government."- fr. George Washington's Farewell Address
Those who seek to run the world need to quickly understand that which gives form, and function, to their own bodies actually runs the show. Thus, our Unitary Existence demands that our consciousness emerge to a higher state of understanding, and reverence, for Cosmic Law, or "we shall perish together as fools"!
2
Are we in the U.S. really prepared to engage in a war with Russia to defend a tiny country that has so little importance to the US that most U.S. citizens can't find it on a map, and is as close to Russia as Nicaragua is to the US? For that matter, would the U.S. welcome a military alliance between Russia and Nicaragua? If NATO is not explicitly an alliance of all countries against Russia, why not simply invite Russia to join?
17
Most U.S. citizens can't find any country but their own on a map, and that only because it's always in the center.
5
So this is an explicit declaration that we are willing to go to war over Montenegro. Highly questionable.
NATO must honor it's commitment of shared defense, which means that if Serbia acts against Montenegro, then we are at war with Serbia; boots on the ground and everything. It was ridiculous interlocking defense pacts like this that helped launch the slaughter of WWI, involving exactly this region no less.
Nothing against Montenegro, but we have no business committing ourselves to its defense. The alternative, if we aren't prepared to send our children to die for Montenegro, is that NATO has grown so large and its mission so diffuse that the alliance has lost all meaning. Sooner or later someone will call our bluff, maybe Putin, maybe someone else, and NATO will be revealed for the paper tiger is has perhaps become. Either way the world has not become safer today.
NATO must honor it's commitment of shared defense, which means that if Serbia acts against Montenegro, then we are at war with Serbia; boots on the ground and everything. It was ridiculous interlocking defense pacts like this that helped launch the slaughter of WWI, involving exactly this region no less.
Nothing against Montenegro, but we have no business committing ourselves to its defense. The alternative, if we aren't prepared to send our children to die for Montenegro, is that NATO has grown so large and its mission so diffuse that the alliance has lost all meaning. Sooner or later someone will call our bluff, maybe Putin, maybe someone else, and NATO will be revealed for the paper tiger is has perhaps become. Either way the world has not become safer today.
30
Actually, the world became a much safer place today. By exhibiting some unexpected backbone, the White House and the EU today actually pushed back against Putin's neo-imperialist exploits in his "near abroad". Thuggish behavior by authoritarian expansionists like the Russian President and his colleague in Beijing needs to be met with resolve or the end result is a world that slips closer and closer to war. The world learned this lesson quite painfully in World War II. We should be glad that those lessons appear to not be completely forgotten.
6
Take Kerry at his word, but don't forget that Yugoslavia was a client state to the old Soviet Union, and that there are historical connections between the Russians and the Serbs.
Putin just had his nose tweaked. It also serves to add new wrinkles to whatever his plans are.
Putin just had his nose tweaked. It also serves to add new wrinkles to whatever his plans are.
1
Yugoslavia was not a client state of the USSR.
7
Yugoslavia was under the boot of the USSR unwillingly.
Tito did what he could to keep it non-aligned.
Their relationship is that of a slave to its former master oppressor.
Tito did what he could to keep it non-aligned.
Their relationship is that of a slave to its former master oppressor.
1
Couldn't they have found a better time, when tensions weren't already so high?
3
It's amazing our foreign policy remains in the 20th century while the rest of the world moves into the 21st.
When will we let our irrational fears go?
When will we let our irrational fears go?
13
I couldn't agree more. Now if only Russia's foreign policy would depart from the 19th century...
I would just like to applaud the sensible comments from other readers such as Adam from Minneopolis about what George Kennan warned the hawks in the 1990s during the Clinton administration. When the Senate was debating on the inclusion of Poland, the Czech Republic and Hungary to become members of an expanding Nato, he said this expansion would only anger Russia and also noted that when the Russians protested this expansion, he said that the hawks would dismiss their legitimate comcerns by blaming the Russians for acting like Russians. It wil only ratch up the tensions between Nato and Russia. Are the Western powers sleepwalking toward the edge of the abyss as they in the lead-up to the First Worlld War?
23
Our so-called leaders will have a lot of explaining to do if Russia spearheads the defeat of ISIS while they were too busy signing treaties with podunk countries.
7
My lord, that would be a horrible result for everyone.
ISIS would be defeated, and.... and....
I guess we'd have to give Putin credit?
ISIS would be defeated, and.... and....
I guess we'd have to give Putin credit?
2
Putin calculates his next breath. He has and will do anything to position himself as the "good guy". If he hits ISIS at all it will only to be to cloud the minds of the American people into thinking he is the guy on the white horse. What a sad state of affairs and we buy it hood line and sinker against our own Nation and it's leaders. Do we not think that this KGB operative is well aware of the low opinion we hold our leaders in at this time in our history? He sure does and will use it to his advantage. We need to grow up. We can be at odds with our leaders but should never take the side of a maniac against our own Nation our Allies and the common Ideology we share. I find that more frightening than Putins machinations.
2
I have the Impression that a lot of russian trolls are writing these comments
21
You'd be right.
1
Maybe add Russia and kick out Turkey. At least we know where we stand with Russia.
12
Mr. Putin, we will see your Crimea and Ukraine bet, and raise you one Montenegro! "Unspecified retaliatory measures", what are you going to do hassle us with your naked chest porn?
5
I don't know about "hassling" us with his "naked chest porn." I kinda am impressed with it.
2
The civil war in Syria is full of danger to all humanity. It could result in a confrontation of Russia and the US both with atomic weapons. Putin is rigth when argues that the principal enemy of all the civilized world is isis. The US is obsesed with deposing Assad. the president of Syria has provided stability to Syria and is necessary to provide stability in the future. . If the Us intervenes in Syria militarily and eliminate isis and deposes Assad . In that situation isis will emerge again with more energy and capacity to destroy. Isis was not created by Assad. It was created the folly of the US in helping terrorists disguised as democratas who wanted to overtrow Assad violently and could have been defeated easily by him if the US did not intervene ilegally in a civil war of a sovereign country. The rebels being helped by the US are helping isis defeat Assad ,this is sheer nonsense bordering in stupidity
8
If one google search the location of Montenegro and compares it to a map featuring NATO members, you will see how geographical if Montenegro joins, it won't make a difference since it's far away from Russian borders.
Militarily, it will actually strain NATO's resource since Montenegro has nothing to offer military alliance.
Politically, this is a stupid move considering the climate between Russia and NATO. This will feed into the Kremlin's rhetoric about NATO expansionist plans and thus justifying their recent military resurgence.
I for one, personally, don't understand why NATO is doing this. What is their ultimate goal? Collective defense or Russia's containment?
You can't claim to be defending yourself when you're constantly encroaching towards the enemy.
Militarily, it will actually strain NATO's resource since Montenegro has nothing to offer military alliance.
Politically, this is a stupid move considering the climate between Russia and NATO. This will feed into the Kremlin's rhetoric about NATO expansionist plans and thus justifying their recent military resurgence.
I for one, personally, don't understand why NATO is doing this. What is their ultimate goal? Collective defense or Russia's containment?
You can't claim to be defending yourself when you're constantly encroaching towards the enemy.
22
I know Russia wants to dominate the Ukraine but what possible interest could they have in tiny Montenegro? It's over a thousand miles from its closest border. I can understand the Russians have an important naval base and want entre' to the Arab world in Syria, but I don't get this.
11
George H.W. Bush promised Gorbachev that NATO would not expand toward the USSR. We have broken that promise many times.
23
Nope. Never happened.
Tell your bosses that this statement marks you as an easy spot for a troll. Not sure they care though.
Tell your bosses that this statement marks you as an easy spot for a troll. Not sure they care though.
4
For heaven's sake, what a silly fuss about nothing. Montenegro is a tiny little country that's a lot closer to Italy (100 miles) than Russia (1000). It's never been part of Russia's sphere of influence, not under the Czar, Stalin or Putin. Montenegro has about the same population as Denver, CO, and slightly less land than Connecticut. It doesn't come close to sharing a border with Russia. Next thing you know the Russians will start complaining because the US sent a man to the moon once.
16
Montenegro was once part of Serbia , and used to be Serbia's connection to the sea. Serbia is one of Russia oldest and dearest allies. You may have noticed over the past few decades, and centuries, that nationalistic passions in that part of the world run pretty hot.
6
Give the Malvinas to Argentine.
2
Please do not confuse (in the 7th paragraph of the article) the Balkans with the Baltic countries. I think the author meant to say that Russia has been regularly violating the airspace of the Baltic countries, who are Nato members.
12
Look at the incident with Russian SU-24. NATO just clearly demonstrated that it’s members are allowed to do any provocation against Russia and they will be fully protected by big brothers from alliance. Everyone clearly sees that is was a stupid move, regardless whether or not plane entered into Turkish airspace for 17 seconds. USA officials denied comment on the direct question about where plain was fired at, Syrian of Turkish airspace.
NATO sent clear message to members like Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania which are ego to please USA – go ahead, do more provocations, you safe with us. And at the same time raises “concerns” about deployment of the air defense system by Russia.
I wonder why Russia is not seeing NATO friendly?
For the record I live in Canada and I am subject to “Western propaganda” rather than Russian’s one.
NATO sent clear message to members like Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania which are ego to please USA – go ahead, do more provocations, you safe with us. And at the same time raises “concerns” about deployment of the air defense system by Russia.
I wonder why Russia is not seeing NATO friendly?
For the record I live in Canada and I am subject to “Western propaganda” rather than Russian’s one.
21
Dear completely unbiased commentator Maxim, the West can't win with the Russian Federation and Putin. When we ignored the Russian Federation in the 1990s they were hopping up and down demanding to be treated like a super power. Now that we are starting to take them seriously again, you and Putin's other PR folks are complaining that the West is "provoking" the Russian Federation. Frankly, the West would be happiest if Putin spent more energy on fixing the Russian Federation and less energy on meddling in Ukraine, Syria, and now Montenegro. But that is too much work for someone like Putin who doesn't really know how to run a country, especially one as complex as the Russian Federation.
8
Putin is running Russia quite fine, thank you. Most people own homes, we do not have daily mass shootings, an opiate epidemic, most young people out of work, constant wars , ethnic tensions, a smorgasbord ofquack religions . Oldwomen shop at night , alone. Police here are rare and have manners. The people of the US are lied to and the shocking part is they are full of ignorant hubris and chatter endlessly ofan autocracy and dictatorship that exists only in the US.
2
Richard,
Russia has no "constant wars?" What do you call the illegal annexations of Crimea and eastern Ukraine? Imperialism! Wars of aggression!
Russia may have no opiate epidemic, but 25% of all Russian males over age 55 die of alcohol abuse, smoking and suicide.
Pensioners go hungry, while the government plows under billions of Rubles worth of imported European Union food products, such as cheeses and meats. Now, Turkish imports face the same fate!
The young people leave the country to avoid conscription to serve in Ukraine and Syria; the U.S. abolished conscription following our failed imperial misadventure in Vietnam.
The Russian Federation government is massively corrupt and as a consequence of international sanctions, burning through its foreign currency reserves at an astounding rate, promising national bankruptcy within two years.
Need I say more?
Russia has no "constant wars?" What do you call the illegal annexations of Crimea and eastern Ukraine? Imperialism! Wars of aggression!
Russia may have no opiate epidemic, but 25% of all Russian males over age 55 die of alcohol abuse, smoking and suicide.
Pensioners go hungry, while the government plows under billions of Rubles worth of imported European Union food products, such as cheeses and meats. Now, Turkish imports face the same fate!
The young people leave the country to avoid conscription to serve in Ukraine and Syria; the U.S. abolished conscription following our failed imperial misadventure in Vietnam.
The Russian Federation government is massively corrupt and as a consequence of international sanctions, burning through its foreign currency reserves at an astounding rate, promising national bankruptcy within two years.
Need I say more?
3
Since it's clear that there is no answer to the current situation with ISIS and in Syria, maybe the rest of the world is thinking that it may be easier just provoke everything outside the area to the brink of destruction, so that that way whatever happens in Syria won't matter anymore because the only ones left will be ISIS. All those opposed to ISIS seem to be going a long way out of their way to fight everybody but ISIS.
5
Russia's take over of the Crimea angers me.
7
Suppose Americans in south Texas left the union and joined Mexico and
the US reclaimed the area for America.
Would that anger you?
the US reclaimed the area for America.
Would that anger you?
1
Irrelevant. As long as it makes people in Crimea happy - and it does big time!
If the objective is to provoke a confrontation with Russia then the West is doing everything in its power to see that that goal is achieved. Tensions are not high enough already? Let's just see what else we can throw into the mix to really get things to a boiling point........enter Montenegro.....huh?
I'm wondering how many family members of the NATO Leaders will be on the front lines when this thing finally blows up in everyone's face. Oh no, of course not.........their kids will be frolicking at the Sorbonne or backpacking through Nepal when this ---- hits the fan.
I'm wondering how many family members of the NATO Leaders will be on the front lines when this thing finally blows up in everyone's face. Oh no, of course not.........their kids will be frolicking at the Sorbonne or backpacking through Nepal when this ---- hits the fan.
22
As a member of NATO, Montenegro will attract even more price conscious Russian
tourists, just as Bulgaria does today. When on vacations, Russians love electrical power
and strongly dislike bombing.
tourists, just as Bulgaria does today. When on vacations, Russians love electrical power
and strongly dislike bombing.
1
A car is running on the track. You don't want it to run. You start throwing debris onto the track. You're so powerful, you're so smart!
1
I'm amazed at all the Russians who comment on this. Well done Montenegro, you have joined the side of Western Civilization. Russia can continue to relive it's repressive past.
9
I'm amazed how childish and ignorant some Americans can be to think that if someone disagrees with this action that they must be Russian or "un-American"
4
Are there any adults left in charge at the State Dept? Does NATO really need Montenegro to shore up its eastern flank? This Washington-Brussels axis of numbskullery will just provoke the Kremlin to retaliate with its own membership drive. It's all fun and games until somebody loses an eye.
11
Bottom line. What right do we have to remove Assad? We are destabilizing a leader of a sovereign nation at the request of rebels who may or may not have all the citizens of Syria's best interests at heart. By doing this we have allowed ISIS and other less desirable groups a petri dish in which to grow.
11
These impoverished Balkan countries add nothing but expense to NATO and the US taxpayer. We need to stop this expansion. Why do we countries that can make no real contribution to NATO except to help the US encircle Russia. Militarily Montenegro is of no value to anyone.
11
It is of great value: it blocks Russia's access to the Adriatic via Serbia.
ANOTHER utterly gratuitous poke in the eye to Russia by the US and NATO?
And WHAT is the conceivable "gain" from this action?
It's just jaw-dropping how stupid and ham-handed US "diplomacy" has become! Have these geniuses read any of the (many) books recently issued abut how the world slid into Word War I by this sort of "thinking" and inter-locking "alliances"? Or any of the writings of people like George Kennan, who warned against such pseudo-strategic blunders?
Russia deserves a lot of blame and suspicion for its various actions, but that doesn't change the utter absurdity of these pointlessly provocative actions by the US.
And WHAT is the conceivable "gain" from this action?
It's just jaw-dropping how stupid and ham-handed US "diplomacy" has become! Have these geniuses read any of the (many) books recently issued abut how the world slid into Word War I by this sort of "thinking" and inter-locking "alliances"? Or any of the writings of people like George Kennan, who warned against such pseudo-strategic blunders?
Russia deserves a lot of blame and suspicion for its various actions, but that doesn't change the utter absurdity of these pointlessly provocative actions by the US.
13
Expanding NATO in any fashion that insults Russia is a horrendous idea, but is in lockstep with Obama's general bumbling over Ukraine.
There is no intellectual historian of any worth, who understands Eastern Europe, that thinks disrespecting valid Russian interests on it's borders is a winning game. The lost opportunity cost of insulting the Russians, when we could be allied with them on a variety of causes, is huge.
A recent article here exposed the rise of Fascists in Poland, yet no equivalent article has been published for the vast assemblage of quasi fascist nationalist groups already wielding power in Ukraine. Azov Battalion, Right Sector, Svoboda, all right wing nationalist fascist leaning paramilitaries, all Ukrainian. Never a mention here, even as members of these groups killed three policemen and injured many more in a recent demonstration in Kiev.
What you find is that American foreign policy in Europe vis a vis Russia is heavily influenced not by common sense and respect, but by Neocons, & their banks that are in deep with junk loans to various Welfare Baby States like Ukraine.
There is no intellectual historian of any worth, who understands Eastern Europe, that thinks disrespecting valid Russian interests on it's borders is a winning game. The lost opportunity cost of insulting the Russians, when we could be allied with them on a variety of causes, is huge.
A recent article here exposed the rise of Fascists in Poland, yet no equivalent article has been published for the vast assemblage of quasi fascist nationalist groups already wielding power in Ukraine. Azov Battalion, Right Sector, Svoboda, all right wing nationalist fascist leaning paramilitaries, all Ukrainian. Never a mention here, even as members of these groups killed three policemen and injured many more in a recent demonstration in Kiev.
What you find is that American foreign policy in Europe vis a vis Russia is heavily influenced not by common sense and respect, but by Neocons, & their banks that are in deep with junk loans to various Welfare Baby States like Ukraine.
18
What a stupid "NO POLICY...
Does Obama intend to go to War with Russia to defend Montenegro..??? ... or Ukraine...or any of the countries in Eastern Europe ...
" We have your Back" ... With "No Boots on the Ground" ... Who is kidding who ...???
If the US was afraid to go to War over Iran...who supposedly has No Nukes and ICBM's (yet) ...
Does the US want to start WWIII with Russia..?
If Obama cannot defeat the "JV" team ...If Obama won't stand up to ( the Butcher), Assad ...How are we going to stand up to Russia ...
Both Obama and Kerry have no No Idea and No Clue and therefore No Policy ...
13 Months and Counting ... I just hope the World doesn't Blow Up by then...
Does Obama intend to go to War with Russia to defend Montenegro..??? ... or Ukraine...or any of the countries in Eastern Europe ...
" We have your Back" ... With "No Boots on the Ground" ... Who is kidding who ...???
If the US was afraid to go to War over Iran...who supposedly has No Nukes and ICBM's (yet) ...
Does the US want to start WWIII with Russia..?
If Obama cannot defeat the "JV" team ...If Obama won't stand up to ( the Butcher), Assad ...How are we going to stand up to Russia ...
Both Obama and Kerry have no No Idea and No Clue and therefore No Policy ...
13 Months and Counting ... I just hope the World doesn't Blow Up by then...
7
Henry, the next president will also have to decide whether to go to war with Russia over issues such as Ukraine. Because whatever you may think of one president or another, the US government has both "a clue and a policy" if I may borrow your words.
Like it or not, the US and the West has a great strategic interest in helping countries such as Ukraine build stable democratic and capitalist systems. It makes the world safer in the long run for everyone. that the US failed in this attempt in Afghanistan and Iraq does not mean that suddenly this strategic interest has been negated.
Anyway, the US might in the end decide to abandon Ukraine and even the Baltics, but it will only do so with the understanding that this will cause great damage to the US's reputation as the world's remaining superpower.
The Russian Federation, along with China and other countries would be more than happy to see the US make this decision. Maybe you too will rejoice if the US abandons its role as the world's top superpower. I for one will not. And I am not an American, I am Canadian and will repeat this to anyone who will listen: I and so very glad that the US is our closest neighbour. I can't imagine how awful Canadian life would be if the Russian Federation was our neighbour along our southern boarder rather than the US. Actually, yes I can imagine, it would look something like the airport in Donetsk looks like now. A bombed out hell hole brought to you courtesy of Vova Putin.
Like it or not, the US and the West has a great strategic interest in helping countries such as Ukraine build stable democratic and capitalist systems. It makes the world safer in the long run for everyone. that the US failed in this attempt in Afghanistan and Iraq does not mean that suddenly this strategic interest has been negated.
Anyway, the US might in the end decide to abandon Ukraine and even the Baltics, but it will only do so with the understanding that this will cause great damage to the US's reputation as the world's remaining superpower.
The Russian Federation, along with China and other countries would be more than happy to see the US make this decision. Maybe you too will rejoice if the US abandons its role as the world's top superpower. I for one will not. And I am not an American, I am Canadian and will repeat this to anyone who will listen: I and so very glad that the US is our closest neighbour. I can't imagine how awful Canadian life would be if the Russian Federation was our neighbour along our southern boarder rather than the US. Actually, yes I can imagine, it would look something like the airport in Donetsk looks like now. A bombed out hell hole brought to you courtesy of Vova Putin.
3
Dear Sec. of State Kerry,
Please consider early retirement - your recent fall didn't just break your leg. We don't need any more problems right now, and Montenegro is not our hill to die on. And 'die' is the right word here if we keep goading the Russians too much.
Please consider early retirement - your recent fall didn't just break your leg. We don't need any more problems right now, and Montenegro is not our hill to die on. And 'die' is the right word here if we keep goading the Russians too much.
10
Montenegro borders the North Atlantic? Excuse me while I look in my Atlas.
2
Well DaveD, clearly NATO doesn't stand for North Atlantic really. Turkey's not anywhere near the Atlantic, nor Greece, etc.
3
While I don't particularly care that Russia is upset, I have always felt that the willy-nilly, aggressive expansion of NATO makes no sense. Why have we provided a security guaranty to Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Albania and similar countries which are entirely peripheral to our security? Now we are required by treaty to defend an attack on those countries as if it were an attack on the US itself.
6
I am absolutely baffled that anyone in power, be they NATO leaders or Russia, thinks Montenegro has any importance whatsoever. It's like squabbling over who gets to ally with Pitcairn Island. Totally puny, no major economy, no major army, they're going to be a charity case for NATO and nothing more. Hopefully we can all move on quickly after this pointless little non-event.
6
Michael, no, I call that a phony vote held after the Russians had already occupied the country. Just how naive do you think we westerners are? We don't have a controlled press, you know.
8
Mr. Hill: The annexation of Crimea came AFTER the overthrow of the democratically elected president of Ukraine. We supported regime change in Ukraine even though an election in Ukraine would have taken place within a year. It is interesting that it appears many want to start off with Crimea as if nothing came before.
1
Do we care? Russia has set itself up as a bloc opposing NATO so nothing NATO does pleases Russia.
8
Michael, I am afraid you have it backwards: NATO set itself up as a bloc opposing Russia and there are few signs that anything has changed in the 25 years since the collapse of the Soviet Union. And you are right, its expansion will bother Russia no matter what.
Do we care? That depends on whether one is happy to have contempt and antagonism shape future US foreign policy toward Russia, or whether having Russia as an ally sharing common values of democracy and human rights is a worthwhile goal.
Do we care? That depends on whether one is happy to have contempt and antagonism shape future US foreign policy toward Russia, or whether having Russia as an ally sharing common values of democracy and human rights is a worthwhile goal.
5
You are right that the West stupidly continued the Cold War strategy of putting a ring of steel around Russia. Nevertheless Russia had opportunities to cooperate with NATO and it is naive to think that NATO would just pack up and disband at the end of the Cold War.
Russia, sadly doesn't share common values of democracy and human rights. US foreign policy towards Russia rejects the notion that in the 21st century one European nation can just take a piece of another.
Russia, sadly doesn't share common values of democracy and human rights. US foreign policy towards Russia rejects the notion that in the 21st century one European nation can just take a piece of another.
1
To rephrase your last sentence in words of Noam Chomsky, "the US has its red lines firmly at Russian borders".
From Kremlin that looks threatening, and why wouldn't it.
As to contempt and antagonism -- freedom fries.
From Kremlin that looks threatening, and why wouldn't it.
As to contempt and antagonism -- freedom fries.
1
This isn't about Montenegro particularly, it's about having a group of nations strong enough to resist attack. I don't think that the West should forget the millions of people murdered by Stalin's regime, the conquest and subjugation of Eastern Europe at the end of WWII by Russia, the repeatedly stated goal of the Communists to conquer the rest of the world, and currently Putin's use of pinprick expansionism in an attempt to restore the USSR.
Russia could apply to join NATO at any time, if they are worried about being surrounded, but then they would have to abide by the NATO charter. The mutual defense provisions of the charter would mean they couldn't attack Georgia, Ukraine, Crimea, and wherever else is next on their list.
Articles 1 and 2 of the NATO charter would also make it increasingly difficult for Putin and his oligarch allies to hold onto power; and that is what this is really about.
Russia could apply to join NATO at any time, if they are worried about being surrounded, but then they would have to abide by the NATO charter. The mutual defense provisions of the charter would mean they couldn't attack Georgia, Ukraine, Crimea, and wherever else is next on their list.
Articles 1 and 2 of the NATO charter would also make it increasingly difficult for Putin and his oligarch allies to hold onto power; and that is what this is really about.
26
Best post of the day!
2
Ironic that people like you don't want to forget Stalin but think blacks and minorities in this country should "get over" the atrocities done right here.
3
Andre, I'm reading Charles' comment carefully and cannot see that he makes any argument, inference or imputation that you allege regarding the treatment of blacks and minorities in the US. It seems your rhetoric relies on a straw dog argument that is completely unfair to Charles' point.
Yes, yes yes. The US can do things just as evil as Russia... Except unlike people living in Russia, Americans can argue over these issues and perhaps effect some changes. I may curse at the NY Times while reading their newspaper, but I thank God it exists.
7
I agree with your sentiments, Wilhelm, but what "evil" things has the U.S. done to make comparisons with Russia? Knock off journalists and political opposition? No. Create a state-run, chauvinist media while closing down independent media? No. Invading another country while comically claiming the soldiers aren't theirs? No. I'm with you on the often-maddening-but-great NYTimes, but good ole Vlad is taking things down to a whole new level of disingenuous, 19th-century politics.
2
I say let's take Montenegro and give Russia, Turkey. The idea that we are linked to that mad man in charge of Turkey makes my skin crawl!
7
Justice...the cold war is over...
The most effective group against ISIS are the Kurdish people. Why are they being squeezed? Because of Turkey? Please, forget Turkey. Stick with those who are really effective.
As for NATO, now NATO IS INEFFECTIVE! Another coalition of the "wiling"? Where is W and his flight suit now?
As for NATO, now NATO IS INEFFECTIVE! Another coalition of the "wiling"? Where is W and his flight suit now?
6
Why should anyone care about Russian 'anger'? It's time to ignore Putin just as one would a whiny, spoiled child having a temper tantrum. Accommodating Putin is like trying to calm a four-year-old by giving into his demands for 'more candy!'
14
you should share your views with the ukrainians
3
they should next admit an independent Kurdistan
3
Imagine Russia was recruiting caribbean nations to join their military block. Imagine Russia got Mexico to sign on to their military program. How would we react?
18
Mexico borders the US... If you looked at a map, you'd see that Montenegro is like 1,000 miles off the border with Russia. This would be a better analogy if say we were discussing bringing Ukraine into NATO. That's something we don't do because we don't want to anger the bear. I don't think our foreign policy should be solely dictated by upsetting Russian though, their's certainly isn't based on not upsetting us.
Oh, and Russia is "allies" with countries that distance from the US. Look at Venezuela, Nicaragua and Cuba.
Oh, and Russia is "allies" with countries that distance from the US. Look at Venezuela, Nicaragua and Cuba.
6
Do you think Mexico or the Caribbean nations would want to join Russia in a military block!? That's irrational and ridiculous.
5
Russia can go ahead a try. They'll get laughed out of the room by the Mexicans and whomever else they want to meet with.
Let's be straight about this... people want to join NATO because of Russia's actions. If Russia doesn't like this expansion, perhaps they should look in the mirror and determine what is driving countries away. I'm pretty sure Russia's invasions of their neighbors, the poor economic policies and the corruption is clear to it's neighbors.
Let's be straight about this... people want to join NATO because of Russia's actions. If Russia doesn't like this expansion, perhaps they should look in the mirror and determine what is driving countries away. I'm pretty sure Russia's invasions of their neighbors, the poor economic policies and the corruption is clear to it's neighbors.
2
How stupid are we?Who exactly are we going to replace Assad with? Seems to me that anyone we pick is going to be suspect. As hard as it is watching the slaughter of innocents we have to let them fight it out. Whenever we get start choosing sides.....well just look at our track record.
35
What wil replace Assad is a bunch of religious zealots whose answer to a theological debate is machine gunfire or a beheading. We are crazy to think that anything resembling a democracy where minorities are protected and free speech flourishes will break out in the ME any time soon. We need to run not walk to the first available exit and let these Muslims battle this out on their own.
12
How about we let Syrians decide? Isn't that what this is all about?
Russia wants to keep a murderous dictator (Assad), we want to let the people decide.
Russia wants to keep a murderous dictator (Assad), we want to let the people decide.
3
We don't have to pick anybody. The Russians can put anyone else they want in power. But Assad has to go, since the majority of Syrians are only united in their hatred of him.
2
This continued growth of foreign entanglement is a direct threat to the future of this country. NATO's expansion is equivalent to the expanded promise of the US to go to war, a future world war, and one likely involving nuclear weapons.
The American public need to be involved in this decision. The American public needs to debate this matter.
Are we willing to embolden nationalistic and potentially dictatorial regimes such as Turkey, and then rush into war in defense of their provocations? Are we willing to be bound by such entanglements to the point of a nuclear nightmare or WWIII occurrence? Does this add security or the reverse? Did Turkey's membership in NATO enable provocation towards Russia as treaties with Poland enabled provocation towards Germany prior to WWII? NATO's expansion binds Americans. It binds America to future commitments involving warfare. Is this not important to debate? This is not solely a NATO decision. And, it's not solely a Obama administration decision. This is more important than any economic treaty. It needs to be taken up in Congress.
Where is the sensible journalism? It's where the sensible journalism was just prior to our invasion of Iraq... asleep at the switch.
The American public need to be involved in this decision. The American public needs to debate this matter.
Are we willing to embolden nationalistic and potentially dictatorial regimes such as Turkey, and then rush into war in defense of their provocations? Are we willing to be bound by such entanglements to the point of a nuclear nightmare or WWIII occurrence? Does this add security or the reverse? Did Turkey's membership in NATO enable provocation towards Russia as treaties with Poland enabled provocation towards Germany prior to WWII? NATO's expansion binds Americans. It binds America to future commitments involving warfare. Is this not important to debate? This is not solely a NATO decision. And, it's not solely a Obama administration decision. This is more important than any economic treaty. It needs to be taken up in Congress.
Where is the sensible journalism? It's where the sensible journalism was just prior to our invasion of Iraq... asleep at the switch.
18
Poland "provoked" Germany in 1939, did it, Jim? While you're certainly correct to state that the current situation in the Middle East has parallels with 1914 before WWI, your claim that NATO is "the equivalent to the expanded promise of the US to go to war" can only lead one to conclude that you're "asleep at the switch." If the United States and NATO didn't defend free peoples choosing to be in a non-aggressive military alliance, WWIII would be even more likely.
1
For one and all incredulous or mystified by all the pro-Russian comments - a fair amount come from Russia's demonic system of trolling and computer-warfare (which can be subtle, like this, or not so subtle). Easy to set up accounts and leave comments and they obviously do. Remember that Times Magazine article The Agency? It should have made things clear to one and all.
16
Why is the U.S. so hard nosed about removing Mr. Assad. Why not get hard nosed about removing Mr. Netanyahu, or the leaders of Saudi Arabia and Qatar and Bahrain and Egypt? Why do we demonize Mr. Assad when there is an array of demons all around him who have just as much to answer for as he has?
Like so much of our U.S. foreign policy (the Assad demonizing, the fighting of ISIS by supplying it with weapons and funds through Saudi Arabia, the total support for the Israeli depredations in Palestinian territories, building a greater NATO bureaucracy, etc.) all we learn about why we are committing these seeming absurdities is the few dropped propaganda bits that fall off the lips of Messrs. Obama and Kerry. Who said our democracy was still working in the foreign policy area?
Like so much of our U.S. foreign policy (the Assad demonizing, the fighting of ISIS by supplying it with weapons and funds through Saudi Arabia, the total support for the Israeli depredations in Palestinian territories, building a greater NATO bureaucracy, etc.) all we learn about why we are committing these seeming absurdities is the few dropped propaganda bits that fall off the lips of Messrs. Obama and Kerry. Who said our democracy was still working in the foreign policy area?
11
Why? Because Saudi Arabia gave us our marching orders on ASSAD AND THEY COULD NOT ABIDE A SECULAR GOVERNMENT IN SYRIA. What happened to John Kerry? He seems to love war and practices a sort of blind and ignorant chatter on the ME that doesn't even come close to accepting reality. It's sad to see him decline.
16
Great timing. Putin is a worldwide bully and war criminal (see Georgia, Chechnya, Crimea, Ukraine, Syria) and has been running roughshod over Obama. This is an low-cost method of telling Putin to shove off and set the right tone.
5
i agree. That 's why we need to make the Ukraine a Nato nation today. Putin the coward will soil himself and leave immediately.
Romney understood this, why do liberals not?
Romney understood this, why do liberals not?
The continuing Assad Must Go mantra from Obama/Kerry is symptomatic of an incoherent American foreign policy. Assad Must Go says Kerry again, at, of all things, a NATO meeting to welcome Montenegro to the alliance. The more Kerry and Obama reaffirm their commitment to toppling Assad, the more dug in Iran and Russia are in fighting to keep him. The Iranians and Russians are using this as yet another of many recent opportunities to rub America's nose in its weakness. You say Assad Must Go, they say to us. Really? And what will you do about it? Our answer is to bomb Assad's arch-enemy, ISIS. And so our foreign and military policies continue their extended vacations from rationality.
8
you do know that bush and cheney (and nearly all current REpublicans in congress) currently say the same thing or did so until recently about Asad , correct?
But they didn't make it central to their foreign policy, and leave the threat of a vacuum in power when they took out the dictator. Oh wait, they did that in Iraq. Then Obama did it in Libya and now trying to do that in Syria.
Didn't work out so well the first time did it? Maybe we need to stop before we get further behind.
Didn't work out so well the first time did it? Maybe we need to stop before we get further behind.
3
NATO is an anachronism that should have ceased to exist with the demise of the Soviet Union -- instead the US has not only kept it alive, but has expanded it; all to the benefit of the MIC.
Why oh why weren't Eisenhower's wise words listened to?
Why oh why weren't Eisenhower's wise words listened to?
18
Yes! How irrational of both the U.S. and NATO to include free peoples with democratically-elected governments in a military alliance to protect them from a nation that's been the cause of tens of millions of deaths and untold misery in eastern and central Europe. And Eisenhower? No, you're not misinterpreting his words like so many have. To hell with countries wanting to exist without Russian aggression, right, Chet380?
3
What a stupid idea to make Montenegro a NATO member state. For what possible benefit to NATO? I understand why so many Americans questions our political leaders and why a recent poll shows that 55% of us think average Americans could do a better job. The problem may be that the 55% have elected political leaders just like themselves, i.e., average.
9
How many of these posts do you suppose are actually emanating from Russia with aliased locations on phony accounts? I especially like the ones that read essentially: "Now I understand why Americans are so angry with our leaders..." Right... because, you know, as legitimate and very real citizen of American State of Minneapolis you only now just realize great American hatred for Leader when he needlessly antagonize good and dear friend mother Russia!
Granted those posts are a step above Boris Badenov in sophistication but not much. For one, get a clue, the bulk of Americans that really hate Obama are, when it comes to Russia, mostly angry that we aren't fighting you even more as they largely subscribe to a "kick everyone's ass harder until they fall in line" philosophy of the world both in terms of domestic and foreign policy.
Sorry if that grammatical and syntactic structure was overly complex my Russian "friends", but my intended audience is primarily other actual Americans who by and large have a full and fluent command of American English, not merely a highly functional one as most of you so clearly demonstrate.
Granted those posts are a step above Boris Badenov in sophistication but not much. For one, get a clue, the bulk of Americans that really hate Obama are, when it comes to Russia, mostly angry that we aren't fighting you even more as they largely subscribe to a "kick everyone's ass harder until they fall in line" philosophy of the world both in terms of domestic and foreign policy.
Sorry if that grammatical and syntactic structure was overly complex my Russian "friends", but my intended audience is primarily other actual Americans who by and large have a full and fluent command of American English, not merely a highly functional one as most of you so clearly demonstrate.
10
You do realize that every impoverished nation we invite to join NATO, costs the US taxpayer money? That is why now we pay 76% of NATO's bill because we have members who can't afford the 2% for defense spending so we make it up.
NATO is really and alliance of 1 - it is the US tool for Intervention and nothing else.
NATO is really and alliance of 1 - it is the US tool for Intervention and nothing else.
6
Some readers believe Russia's anger is justified given Nato's broken promise to not expand eastward. It should be noted the so-called "promise" is just a myth, or more accurately Russian propaganda. This is substantiated by solid research, including declassified documents from the time. Gorbachev as well, who certainly was in a position to know, stated in an interview that no such promise was demanded or made.
Putin's regime runs a massive effort to create and amplify its own "narratives", largely for domestic consumption. The readership of the NYT should know better than take it at face value.
Putin's regime runs a massive effort to create and amplify its own "narratives", largely for domestic consumption. The readership of the NYT should know better than take it at face value.
36
On top of that Montenegro is a thousand miles west of the nearest Russian border so this could harly be called eastern expansion in any case.
3
THE Expansion Of NATO Has Always Had One Objective: "To Enhance The Fortunes Of The Military Industrial Complex Post Cold War, As It Lacks ANY Practical And Meaningful Purpose And Dimension".
THE Russian Reaction is already in motion with alliance with Iran, Iraq and Syria and by default Lebanon.
AND chances are all these countries will join Shanghai Cooperation Council in 2016, creating a massive Land Mass from China, India to Central Asia, Russia and West Asia thus linking the Pacific to the Mediterranean Sea under one Security Umbrella with over 3 Billion Population.
AS for the new label on Regime Change in Syria aka Assad Change, it is very unlikely to happen as aside from the fact that he would win in an election, Russia is building more Military presence in Syria and is the "Wrong Policy Objective".
IRONICALLY if Mr. Assad as a Secular Dictator married to a Modern Sunni Woman is deposed, he would be replaced by a Wahhabi Sunni Islamist Leader so to make the New Regime acceptable to the House of Saud!???
AND Despite The Fact That Mr. Assad Has Many Shortcomings, I Think That Would Be A Very Bad Idea.
THE Russian Reaction is already in motion with alliance with Iran, Iraq and Syria and by default Lebanon.
AND chances are all these countries will join Shanghai Cooperation Council in 2016, creating a massive Land Mass from China, India to Central Asia, Russia and West Asia thus linking the Pacific to the Mediterranean Sea under one Security Umbrella with over 3 Billion Population.
AS for the new label on Regime Change in Syria aka Assad Change, it is very unlikely to happen as aside from the fact that he would win in an election, Russia is building more Military presence in Syria and is the "Wrong Policy Objective".
IRONICALLY if Mr. Assad as a Secular Dictator married to a Modern Sunni Woman is deposed, he would be replaced by a Wahhabi Sunni Islamist Leader so to make the New Regime acceptable to the House of Saud!???
AND Despite The Fact That Mr. Assad Has Many Shortcomings, I Think That Would Be A Very Bad Idea.
7
It is clear to me that we will have to wait for a new administration in Washington to see progress regarding Daesh and our relationship with Russia - and the two go hand in hand.
What a failure of leadership!
What a failure of leadership!
10
I strongly disagree. I think the current administration has done well enough juggling difficult international situations. The new administration will continue this tack if a Democrat wins. If one of the Republicans win you can bet your boots many Americans will be sent off to fight another senseless war in the Middle East.
1
Anyone who has played a military strategy game/simulation can see the end goal here. NATO no longer cares about Democracy or suitable states. The core are the great liberal democracies - but the fringe is purely strategic. If NATO signs up Montenegro, FRYOM and Kosovo - all currently aligned more with the West than Russia, they would have closed the airspace gap between Greece and Croatia. Russian planes would in an emergency overfly a country but would think three times if it was NATO airspace. By closing the small gap in the Balkans - Russia would effectively have to fly over Iran or Iraq to reach the Mediterranean. Think about that. Russia is a European Power. Maybe not that great or that global but they will never settle for restricted air access to the south. Its simple logic - they will retaliate in some manner - maybe by getting Serbia involved in destabilizing Kosovo to prevent entry.
6
NATO already comprises a line from Turkey, through Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary, Slovakia, Poland, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia to accomplishes what you are describing.
Adding Montenegro, or Montenegro, Macedonia AND Kosovo does nothing to change the existing line of NATO countries to the west of Belarus and Ukraine.
Adding Montenegro, or Montenegro, Macedonia AND Kosovo does nothing to change the existing line of NATO countries to the west of Belarus and Ukraine.
2
Nonsense. That "airspace gap" between Greece and Croatia that you are referring to does not matter. In order to reach it from Russia, one needs to overfly Romania or Bulgaria - both NATO members.
2
I doubt if Russia has to try to destabilize Kosovo, it is been destabilized since it declared Independence. Slaughters Orthodox Christians, destroys their churches, is run by a former member of the KLA which used to be classified as a terrorist group - what a wonderful country --
4
“That is not regime change — that is Assad change,”
Does Secretary of State Kerry realizes how absurd he sounds at times?
Does Secretary of State Kerry realizes how absurd he sounds at times?
45
Not really. He's only human after all and in some or many cases, when a human wants a second opinion, he or she simply looks into another mirror.
2
To all those Great Defenders of Mother Russia: Maybe if your leader Mr. Putin wasn't so busy assassinating and jailing his internal non-violent critics; Maybe if he wasn't constantly violating other countries air space(and no, other countries don't constantly violate Russia's air space!); Maybe if he hadn't invaded Ukraine; Maybe if he didn't use violent anti-gay rhetoric; Maybe if he didn't encourage his few allies to murder and jail human rights activists--Maybe we would trust him and take him at his word. He--and you!--have a long way to go to earn back our trust.
13
For the most part you could switch out Russia for the US. We do the same though maybe not to the same extent
6
People claiming that Montenegro joining NATO would be a threat to Russia need a geography and/or history lesson. Here are existing NATO countries that are closer to Russia than Montenegro is: Norway, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Hungary, Bulgaria, Greece and Turkey. Three of those are ex-Soviet republics, while five others were Soviet-occupied 'iron curtain' nations; Montenegro was neither.
31
"Three of those are ex-Soviet republics, while five others were Soviet-occupied 'iron curtain' nations; Montenegro was neither."
Wrong. Remember Yugoslavia?
Wrong. Remember Yugoslavia?
3
Yeah...about that....Yugoslavia may have been communist but it was neither an ex-Soviet republic nor was it an iron curtain nation.
5
I am very glad that President Obama and John Kerry are staying fierce and committed, drawing a strong line against Putin and Assad. It is necessary. Putin is not our ally in any way, shape, or from, he is a powerful tyrant hellbent on more power, and will not help us defeat ISIS.
5
no siree. Indeed we do not need any help to defeat Isis. We will do it on our own by our firm statements to which Isis evil members will not be able to resist.
We do not need to put troops on the ground; and God forbid that Assad Syrian government troops would win their battle and eradicate Isis. And that we would help him to do so. Because if Assad won, then as he did so often in the past, he would send killers squad all over the world to fight the Jihad and kill infidels...
We do not need to put troops on the ground; and God forbid that Assad Syrian government troops would win their battle and eradicate Isis. And that we would help him to do so. Because if Assad won, then as he did so often in the past, he would send killers squad all over the world to fight the Jihad and kill infidels...
2
My God, "also known as ISIS or ISIL" has to be included in an article about NATO also?
3
So the Russians kill terrorists who decapitate american citizens and would kill hundreds more if they got half a chance, and you reserve your hatred for Russia?
I hope you get the Nation you deserve.
I hope you get the Nation you deserve.
32
Nobody hates Russia Tony. We only want them to stop their aggression in the Ukraine. And, they and Assad have no interest in ISIS by their actions.
3
Our relatives in Donbass confirm that there are Canadian and US military fighting there, primarily against peaceful citizens - this is no aggression of course. How and why did they end up there? Ukraine is not even a NATO member. Sorry if your mass media did not report on that - they decide what you should know and what maybe harmful for your psychic.
Out here on the West Coast, you can catch RT and all its hilarious Russian propaganda on cable; according to them, the US is just the most hypocritical state that ever existed. So, it's kind of funny to see the pro-Russian slant many of NYT's commenters herein have. even Putin laments the passing of the USSR - doesn't that tell you anything about his state of mind and what lengths he will take Russia to prove they're badasses? This ain't the 1930's, but the shadow of the Comintern still exists.
4
Since when do these countries hoping to be part of NATO have to ask Russia for permission!? It is their choice and it is their right. The process of becoming a member lasts many years and it is not influenced by current issues. Eastern Europe has suffered immensely for decades under the iron grip of the Soviet Union, millions of people disappeared from the face of the earth and now people are complaining why these countries want to become part of NATO? Who are you kidding!
To those that think that Russia is an ally against ISIS, I say that you are extremely naive at best. Since its involvement in the war Russia has attacked moderate rebels the majority of times and not ISIS because Putin doesn't care about the Syrian people or about destroying ISIS but about keeping his naval base over there.
Russia should work on its own internal problems instead of threatening with nuclear war its neighbors whenever it sees fit.
To those that think that Russia is an ally against ISIS, I say that you are extremely naive at best. Since its involvement in the war Russia has attacked moderate rebels the majority of times and not ISIS because Putin doesn't care about the Syrian people or about destroying ISIS but about keeping his naval base over there.
Russia should work on its own internal problems instead of threatening with nuclear war its neighbors whenever it sees fit.
15
Russia is not demanding permission and has reason to be wary of encroachment from the west. Do the names Napoleon and Hitler ring a bell?
8
Yes, and so does Stalin. When does Russia ever care about what others think when it wants to do something??? Just plain propaganda and fear mongering spread by the Russian government, and you are falling for it!
10
Golly gee, Bartolo, last time I checked the US and western European countries had democratically-elected governments with nary a tin-pot dictator in sight. Could another Hitler happen in the future? Possibly, but currently, Russia, led by a tin-pot dictator, is the greatest threat to world peace.
3
Russia did not invade Georgia. The assertion is completely false. Georgia wantonly invaded South Ossetia and Russian peacekeepers there under cover of the opening of Olympics in Bejing. Ossetians were killed and Russia did just what it had to and responded and quickly ended the Georgian invasion and defeated the Georgian army and in a matter of a few weeks withdrew from Georgia.
Georgians not long after rid themselves of the invading President, Mikheil Saakashvili.
Georgians not long after rid themselves of the invading President, Mikheil Saakashvili.
49
Hey, Like Donald Trump says in reply to the refutable -- I was there! I watched it on TV!. The cornered Rat took South Ossatia.
1
That's a laugh. I suppose Russia didn't invade Ukraine either. Kremlinbots are out in force on this New York Times comment boards again.
3
That's Putin's position Nancy but there is another side to this story you seem to want to overlook.
2
Admitting a country into NATO means committing American lives and resources to defense of that country should it be attacked. A commitment like that should at the minimum require ratification by Congress. Most Americans would not be able to find Montenegro on the map. The government owes its people an explanation how this commitment benefits the US and how does it enhance world peace and stability.
60
you don't have be a "Russian troll" to ask yourself: Would I send my kids / neighbors myself / to die for Montenegro if Russia attacked that country?
NATO is a mutual defense organization. Montenegro has deep water bases. Is it worth sending our GIs to die for that?
NATO is a mutual defense organization. Montenegro has deep water bases. Is it worth sending our GIs to die for that?
4
Defense of a Montenegro from who Alexander? It's a thousand miles from Russia and no one is threatening it that I ever heard. Maybe you heard differently.
2
NATO has been in existence since 1949. Please name one time that a NATO member was attacked by another country.
There is a reason that you cannot name not even one time.
The odds of Montenegro being attacked after joining NATO will sink to practically zero.
More importantly, who is going to attack Montenegro in the first place? The only country that would have motive or desire would be Serbia but they would have little to gain and more to lose in such an action.
There is a reason that you cannot name not even one time.
The odds of Montenegro being attacked after joining NATO will sink to practically zero.
More importantly, who is going to attack Montenegro in the first place? The only country that would have motive or desire would be Serbia but they would have little to gain and more to lose in such an action.
2
Russia's agenda and takeover in Crimea is falling apart. Assad and Syria are falling apart. Georgia too, threatened and once invaded by Mr. Putin is not doing so well and Ukraine is hardly and example of successful Russian interventionism. In fact, wherever Mr. Putin has meddled and intervened nothing but tragedy and bloodshed has resulted. Note the bombing of the Russian airliner and the downing of the Russian combat aircraft. Mr. Putin has angered and upset Turkey, France, Ukraine, Crimea and Georgia. Putin has bullied Poland and the Baltics. Recently France cancelled two amphibious warships once destined for the Russians. And now the Pentagon is preparing to respond to Mr. Putin's deployment of advanced weapons in Europe. And not to forget how Russia is not doing well under American economic sanctions.
Sooner or later Mr. Putin or the Russian people will get the message.
Sooner or later Mr. Putin or the Russian people will get the message.
4
Your sum up of Russias politics is short of any reflection about motives and strategy.If so, why should Putin act like that? Russia is a natural partner for Europe , its even part of Europe. We share knowledge against ressources. We are divided only for US (NATO) unilateral doctrin. US is afraid for a China-Russia-Europe Collobaration. You are broke. Printing tons of Fiat-Money....2,3 million Inhabitans in prison, death penalty now done by shooting, Rascism, working poor,secret jails, Drones and overall a nice plutokratie of "new and old money"-is that your message to Russia?
Every aspect of your tirade can be seen the other way.Who is bombing Syria against the law? Financing islamic terrorists-... again? Without UN -Mandat, without Syria asking you for help? The last non-islamic arabian Government bombed to stonage. Irak, Afghanistan, Ägypt, Libyia, Syria, Irak....First US interfere and then War, Failstates, Refugees, islamic sharia follow. And Germany has to deal with the refugees. How many of them do you take? And i find it not very clever to integrate MoneyLaundry-States and anti-democrates like Erdogan into the Nato.
Every aspect of your tirade can be seen the other way.Who is bombing Syria against the law? Financing islamic terrorists-... again? Without UN -Mandat, without Syria asking you for help? The last non-islamic arabian Government bombed to stonage. Irak, Afghanistan, Ägypt, Libyia, Syria, Irak....First US interfere and then War, Failstates, Refugees, islamic sharia follow. And Germany has to deal with the refugees. How many of them do you take? And i find it not very clever to integrate MoneyLaundry-States and anti-democrates like Erdogan into the Nato.
8
Russia is hardly a natural partner for Europe. It is more like a natural predator. It is Russia that subjugated Eastern Europe for almost 60 years. It is Russia that continued to harbor German soldiers and citizens until almost 1956, 11 years after the end of WWII. They used them as slave laborers with most dying in the Russian Gulags. It was Russia that invaded Hungary in 1956 and crushed that rebellion. It was Russia that invaded Checkoslovakia in 1968. It was Russia that vehemently opposed the formation of unions in Poland the rise of Lech Walesa. It was Russia that occupied East Germany and East Berlin until the wall finally came down. It was Russian submarines that were found lurking in the Atlantic and Pacific threatening Europe and the United States. It was Russian bombers that would fly along the coast of the United States. and it was Russia that placed nuclear missiles in Cuba and almost started WW III. And don't forget Russia's arming of the North Vietnamese and flying warplanes against the United States in that war.
Russia is no one's ally. She is no one's friend.
Russia is a predator nation that thrives on paranoia and fear.
And don't forget Stalin's slaughter of millions.
Russia is no one's ally. She is no one's friend.
Russia is a predator nation that thrives on paranoia and fear.
And don't forget Stalin's slaughter of millions.
2
Montenegro is not a former Russian/Soviet territory. It is a state that was formed after the dissolution of former Yugoslavia. It's quite remote from mainland Russia and I clearly don't understand why Russia should make it a matter of national interest whether Monetnegro joins Nato or not. It is the Slavic heritage or the Russian money laundry that's going on there that is concerning Putinka ?
Montenegro while small has supported NATO troops in Afghanistan so why shouldn't they be part of the coalition?
Oh wait shall we just ask Russia's permission for everything they deem aligned with their Slavic, religious heritage. I feel that we are lollipop-ing Putin way to much; something that he doesn't deserve considering what he has done in Georgia, Crimea, Ukraine and how he has been feeding with arms the Assad regime.
Montenegro while small has supported NATO troops in Afghanistan so why shouldn't they be part of the coalition?
Oh wait shall we just ask Russia's permission for everything they deem aligned with their Slavic, religious heritage. I feel that we are lollipop-ing Putin way to much; something that he doesn't deserve considering what he has done in Georgia, Crimea, Ukraine and how he has been feeding with arms the Assad regime.
8
EU-Commission gave Georgia the fault for the war. So what about the US Interests here? Again, we find them. Energy routes and plans of the United States to use Georgian airfields to launch air strikes against Iranian nuclear facilities. Building close political ties with Georgia as opposed to the confrontation of the latter with Russia, gave the United States an opportunity to create a counterbalance to Russian dominance in the Caucasus. In 2002, the USA started the Georgia Train and Equip Program to arm and train the Georgian military and, in 2005, a Georgia Sustainment and Stability Operations Program to broaden capabilities of the Georgian armed forces.
The United States Department of State described Georgia as "an anchor for regional stability and prosperity," despite the fact that Freedom House had downgraded Georgia's democracy ranking after 2007. In 2008 Freedom House ranked the quality of Georgian democracy as lower than it was under President Eduard Shevardnadze. (wikipedia "Background of the Russo-Georgian War")
The United States Department of State described Georgia as "an anchor for regional stability and prosperity," despite the fact that Freedom House had downgraded Georgia's democracy ranking after 2007. In 2008 Freedom House ranked the quality of Georgian democracy as lower than it was under President Eduard Shevardnadze. (wikipedia "Background of the Russo-Georgian War")
5
It's totally irrelevant what you have provided above since NATO is not US. The article is about Montenegro joining NATO. Regardless, Georgia really needed Russia to understand Democracy, please give me a break.. Please do not reference Wikipedia when everyone knows that Putin troll factories work 24/7 to change facts into their version of events.
So far just 3 comments on the article and - no surprise here - all three criticizing the latest NATO's expansion. A very familiar pattern of implicit and/or explicit expression of pro-Russian views rather awkwardly camouflaged by silly transparent pretexts. BTW - how does inclusion of Montenegro "moves NATO closer to the Russian borders"? How does it hurt the US (alas, so far extremely weak and ineffective) fight against ISIS?
Russian Federation is overwhelmingly recognized as a predatory, aggressive state. Tell us who your friends are, Mr. Putin? - Asad, Iran and North Korea.
Russian Federation is overwhelmingly recognized as a predatory, aggressive state. Tell us who your friends are, Mr. Putin? - Asad, Iran and North Korea.
8
Criticizing NATO expanding is simply admitting that this organization is a simple tool of pressure against Russia and otherwise, a complete Cold War relic.
9
How about China, India, and all of South America...to mention just a few.
4
Unless you're a small nation near Russia, then joining NATO is an essential tool for your survival.
I believe Russia is free to join NATO anytime they want.
1
Russia did ask to join NATO after the Cold War and were told, "no way."
5
At no point in history did Russia ever ask to join NATO. Never. Not once.
Russia said that they did want to be in NATO. That was their decision the same as it is Montenegro's to join.
Russia said that they did want to be in NATO. That was their decision the same as it is Montenegro's to join.
1
We anger the Russians. We all know that Turkey is receiving smuggled oil from ISIS, the so-called Caliphate, our ENEMY. So what do we do. We plead with Turkey, who IS not our friend, and probably our enemy and at the same time push against Russia in Montenegro. This appears to be a chapter from "Alice in Wonderland," or "The way to lose a war and bring about more anarchy in the world." Sheesh! I can't believe it. And it was Kerry vs. "W" in '04'. I was against Bush but looking at Kerry now, I'm glad he was President rather then this.
50
Me too supported Kerry and I agree it was a mistake.
5
This is an indication of how long the American people can remember past events -- about 30 seconds. Bush - 2 wars, unfinished, labelled the forever wars. Where was Iraq before be did "shock & awe"? Where is it now -- mostly in the hands of a murderous cult group. Where is Afhganistan -- barely hanging on. So you want Geo Bush back and you are glad he was President. I rest my case.
7
I agree with you about Turkey but the Montenegrin and other Europeans want this more than we do Dick.
2
Putin believes he can walk into a house and say, "Clean that up. Clean this up. This is how it's done" Ad libing and reactionary all along the way. Strongman or not, he has not thought out his encroachments thoroughly. If America, the Saudi's, NATO, Sunni nations, Chechen rebels, and terrorists have their way, his nationalist braggadocio will lead his followers down a dead end.
1
Thanks, Princeton!
Obama will do just about anything to prevent collaboration with Russia against ISIS, even increasing the threat of war between the nuclear superpowers.
36
What does Obama have to do with the people and government of Montenegro and their desire to join NATO?
Do you really think that no other country can plot their own destiny?
Do you really think that no other country can plot their own destiny?
5
I think you ahve this the other way around jdd. Russia has no interest in ISIS no matter what we do. They are only interested in propping up Assad by their actions in Syria.
4
Montenegro is probably less corrupt, violent or committed to the destruction of the West than Turkey is. Maybe we should ask Turkey to leave NATO in order to make room for Montenegro?
44
It would be fitting and maybe help our frosty relationship with Russia. I would ask Putin to give up his Ukrainian ambitions in return, who knows?
3
You do not know much about Montenegro, it seems.
I am completely lost. Why are we going to any and every length to alienate and threaten Russia when Russia is the staunchest ally we have in fighting against wildly violent insurgents in the Middle East who are a threat to us all? The way in which we have vilified Russia, as though only wishing another Cold War, is beyond all my understanding.
Russia should be our partner now.
Russia should be our partner now.
115
How is including Montenegro as part of NATO "vilifying" Russia? And since when do the "insurgents" in the Middle East "threaten us all'? There will be no ISIS in Great Neck to threaten you. Russia is not a "staunch ally" but simply another player in the Syrian quagmire.
The reality is that countries near Russia fear its unpredictable and authoritarian government; you know, the one that recently annexed a portion of a neighboring state. Russia is unhappy about Montenegro joining NATO because it is a repudiation of its influence and government.
The reality is that countries near Russia fear its unpredictable and authoritarian government; you know, the one that recently annexed a portion of a neighboring state. Russia is unhappy about Montenegro joining NATO because it is a repudiation of its influence and government.
8
Tiny Montenegro has no big army and is a thousand miles from Russia so how does this threaten Russia Nancy?
3
Russia just started bombing in Syria a month or so ago. How were they an ally before then?
And, most importantly, Russia isn't even bombing ISIS; they are bombing Turkmen and other rebel factions who are fighting Assad.
And, since when did Russia get to veto what other independent nations do? If Montenegro wants to join NATO, that is up to the people and government of Montenegro.
And, most importantly, Russia isn't even bombing ISIS; they are bombing Turkmen and other rebel factions who are fighting Assad.
And, since when did Russia get to veto what other independent nations do? If Montenegro wants to join NATO, that is up to the people and government of Montenegro.
6
Dear Russia,
Maybe if you didn't make a habit of invading and annexing parts of neighboring countries they wouldn't be so eager to join NATO?
Sincerely yours.
Maybe if you didn't make a habit of invading and annexing parts of neighboring countries they wouldn't be so eager to join NATO?
Sincerely yours.
80
Invade? If you speak of Crimea, then it must be the first invasion in history in which not a single troop crossed an international border.
26
JDD, that's a grotesque untruth. Russian troops and equipment invaded Ukraine, as a moment's research will tell you. They did not wear Russian insignia.
I cannot believe three people recommended your comment. Mind boggling.
I cannot believe three people recommended your comment. Mind boggling.
13
How about the fact that 90% of the people living in Crimea voted to become part of Russia? Do you call this an invasion?
8
So just exactly why do all the pro-Moscow people here think so many of Russia's neighbors would do almost anything to join NATO?
To borrow one of your favorite words I keep reading town at us, maybe some hegemonies are better than others.
To borrow one of your favorite words I keep reading town at us, maybe some hegemonies are better than others.
9
In 2008, Georgia was invaded by Russia after – surprise, surprise – it held a referendum to join NATO. Before that, what evidence do you have that, after the dissolution of the Soviet Union, Russia harbored any territorial aspirations in its neighboring territories?
3
The other day ex-German chancellor H. Schmidt died, probably the best chancellor Germany ever had. In his days as chancellor he was by no means a dove, pushing for stationing of the Pershing system.
In his recent memoirs he clearly states that the Nato expansion towards Russia was dumb and an act close to aggression, violation common understanding after the fall of the wall.
In his recent memoirs he clearly states that the Nato expansion towards Russia was dumb and an act close to aggression, violation common understanding after the fall of the wall.
60
These are professional trolls hired by Russia. There was a big expose about that recently.
9
In the "poor timing" department, it looks like we couldn't have thought of a better way to plant obstacles in the path of improving relations with the Russians - say what you will about Putin - at a time when both sides really need the dialogue. This NATO business could have been easily postponed. Or scrapped.
88
Maybe the timing is a response to continuing Russian aggression in the Ukraine. That hasn't gone away Rocky.
4
Why? Since when does Russia have veto power over what other independent countries do or do not do?
If Montenegro wants to join NATO, that is for the people of Montenegro to decide, not Russia. And the timing of them becoming full members is, again, up to Montenegro, not Russia.
Russia has no more to say about what happens in Montenegro than Mozambique does.
If Montenegro wants to join NATO, that is for the people of Montenegro to decide, not Russia. And the timing of them becoming full members is, again, up to Montenegro, not Russia.
Russia has no more to say about what happens in Montenegro than Mozambique does.
5
We can all rest safely, Montenegro is now firmly in our corner. It was touch and go there for a while, but now - Onward To Victory!!
42
Why do we suggest such stupid ideas. Assad is a pimple. Montenegro is a nothing regarding NATO. The enemy is ISIS and probably Turkey, but certainly ISIS. Keep your eyes on the ball. The ball is flattening ISIS. It is not to make Russia mad. How stupid can our government be? We are not fighting the Cold War of the 1960's. Sheesh!
113
Montenegro doesn't want to fight the Cold War either which is why they want out of Russian expansion plans.
4
The real enemy of both Russia and the West is militant Islam which needs to be completely destroyed.
1
Some might suggest ISIS is a proxy army? Looking at their ample armaments might suggest their main sponsor?
1
I echo the comments of Adam from Minnesota. The US will now have to defend Montenegro should the tiny country come under attack. How many Americans could find Montenegro on a map? This is in addition to the other 27 NATO countries that the US is currently obligated to go to war for should they come under attack. All this happens while the US has a $19 trillion debt and annual deficits of $500 billion.
The US is currently fighting endless and counter-productive wars in Afghanistan, Syria and Iraq while our gallant allies hold our coats. Add Japan, South Korea, Australia, New Zealand and other Asia/Pacific countries that the US is obligated to defend under current treaties.
Congress has appropriated $300 billion in infrastructure spending over 5 years while trillions of dollars are needed. Yet there is always money to sustain the empire. Our priorities are so misplaced.
The US is currently fighting endless and counter-productive wars in Afghanistan, Syria and Iraq while our gallant allies hold our coats. Add Japan, South Korea, Australia, New Zealand and other Asia/Pacific countries that the US is obligated to defend under current treaties.
Congress has appropriated $300 billion in infrastructure spending over 5 years while trillions of dollars are needed. Yet there is always money to sustain the empire. Our priorities are so misplaced.
118
Maybe, but I don't see how that constitutes an empire. Why are are you using a misleading, even intellectually dishonest word?
4
Agreed. I myself prefer hegemony. Or hegemon. This is pure intellectual honesty.
5
Well, once Montenegro becomes a NATO member, the odds of it being attacked really do pretty much reach zero as no one would dare to take on NATO.
And while the US is obligated to defend other NATO members, so are all the other NATO members like Canada, Iceland, Norway, the UK, France, Poland, Italy, Spain, and so on.
And what empire is the US sustaining?
And while the US is obligated to defend other NATO members, so are all the other NATO members like Canada, Iceland, Norway, the UK, France, Poland, Italy, Spain, and so on.
And what empire is the US sustaining?
3
I'm also no fan of Russia, but the US and the West seems a lot more concerned with weakening Russia and expanding their political agendas than truly fighting ISIS and radical Islam.
The world will greatly suffer for this self-centered myopia.
The world will greatly suffer for this self-centered myopia.
82
Maybe this is more about Montenegro wants and less about us.
9
We're bombing ISIS daily and have troops in Afghanistan and elsewhere and you say we are most concerned with weakening Russsia? The blunt truth is that they invaded and annexed part of a European country and we took no military action -- a necessary choice of course but you can't say we aren't focusing on the terrorists.
11
We should care about Montenegro? It has the military strength and not even the importance of Easter Island.
3
Great, more aggression against Russia by our government and NATO that they will of course deny. There is no other explanation for them inviting a tiny powerless Montenegro with no military to speak of to join NATO other than get closer to Russia's borders and threaten the Russians. Of course, this means more money for the military industrial complex, the usual winner.
Then there is Kerry's delusional statement about not allowing the Syrian government "to implode" although it is Assad and his allies who are holding it together. Without them, Syria will devolve into anarchy like Libya with Al Qaeda, ISIS, and Sunni Extremists running everything. When will Obama wake up and join reality?
Then there is Kerry's delusional statement about not allowing the Syrian government "to implode" although it is Assad and his allies who are holding it together. Without them, Syria will devolve into anarchy like Libya with Al Qaeda, ISIS, and Sunni Extremists running everything. When will Obama wake up and join reality?
130
Maybe, just maybe, Montenegro the ones who don't have a military are far more worried about Putin and Russia (you know the lines you like so much) than NATO aggression.
What does that say about your boy in Moscow when all his neighbors like us more?
What does that say about your boy in Moscow when all his neighbors like us more?
27
Aggression. Right, joining NATO is agression. Unlike, say, invading Ukraine.
I can't believe that 12 real people recommended this.
I can't believe that 12 real people recommended this.
9
I'm Montenegrin. Montenegro isn't scared of Russia; it's an opportunist that wants the best of all worlds. It's already sold much of its coastline and tourism to the Russian oligarchs and upper class. What Montenegro wants (and has historically wanted) is an easy, no-strings existence built on as little domestic effort and investment possible. Meaning tourism revenues from a lovely but grossly overdeveloped coastline; EU development funds and technical expertise; and now, the imprimatur of NATO membership. Montenegro has zero to offer us, and continues to play us for suckers as we keep playing the divide-and-conquer game.
47
Russia is no saint, but in 1996 the West should have listened to the legendary diplomat and father of Cold War containment policy, George Kennan, who warned that NATO's expansion into former Soviet territory was a "strategic blunder of potentially epic proportions." The current crisis with Russia over Ukraine came as no surprise to those of us who understand that great powers react negatively to encroachment by foreign alliances. We may think of NATO as a values-based organization devoted to peace and democracy, but the Russians see it as a threat to their security.
150
The Russians see everything as a threat to their security, and don't seem to understand that others see them as a threat to theirs, for much sounder reasons.
12
Please tell us about the times when Russia was NOT in the complete throes of paranoid behavior? From their history of, the last three centuries?, I find it difficult to understand or know of any other Russian stance.
6
If you had been invaded by Swedes, Teutonic Knight, French, Poles, British, Turks, Germans, Hungarians etc. you might actually start to understand why the Russians always view a coalition of powers coming from the West as a threat.
10