Fascism is a term that does not just represent a political agenda but a form of government and a history that began after WWI and ended with WWII, and while people tend to oppose those with who they disagree with being like Fascists, most, like Trump, are obnoxious but they are not Fascists. The right wing conservatives that Trump attracts are just reactionaries who want the country to be like it was many years ago, as they remember it, rather than accepting today's challenges and trying to come up with solutions that keep this a free country with prosperity that all will enjoy while addressing the constraints which are compelling big changes in how things are done.
9
" then tarring his supporters with the brush of Mussolini and Der Führer right now seems like a shortsighted step — a way to repress the problem rather than dealing with it, to dismiss discontents and have them return, stronger and deadlier, further down the road."
Isn't that exactly what you're doing with this column?
Shameful...simply shameful.
Isn't that exactly what you're doing with this column?
Shameful...simply shameful.
14
What gives? You make a clear and cogent case that Trump is clearly fascist and then say "no". As A psychoanalyst, he is clearly a Narcissistic Personality of the primary type, and can tolerate no other opinions but his own. If you have to wait for the "brown shirts" brigade before you flip back to yes, then it will be too late.
18
Donald Trump may be a lot of things, but the thing that should scare all of us is the demagogic manipulation of fear and hatred underlying his campaign rhetoric. Most of what he says is confused and contradictory, but people like him because he wants the USA to be strong, exceptional, rich and so powerful militarily that this country can dictate to the world and he tells them that's possible with the right leadership. Saying that we've had bad leaders is a key component of his pitch.
A lot of what he says echoes speeches of the fascists before World War II. What really ought to make us panic is the fact that the rest of the GOP, with a very few exceptions, feel that it's politically dangerous to challenge what he says.
Up until very recently, the news media have flirted with Trump while enjoying the show. I think that's beginning to change, but the news media been discredited, in part by their own failings, and in part by a systematic public relations campaign against them.
It doesn't help that most people have no idea what it means to be fascist. Quoting Umberto Eco won't help. I think that people looked at what Hitler and Mussolini did and used their strategies for acquiring and growing power to define fascism. If Trump is doing similar things, the name doesn't matter; it's the response of the followers that's significant.
A lot of what he says echoes speeches of the fascists before World War II. What really ought to make us panic is the fact that the rest of the GOP, with a very few exceptions, feel that it's politically dangerous to challenge what he says.
Up until very recently, the news media have flirted with Trump while enjoying the show. I think that's beginning to change, but the news media been discredited, in part by their own failings, and in part by a systematic public relations campaign against them.
It doesn't help that most people have no idea what it means to be fascist. Quoting Umberto Eco won't help. I think that people looked at what Hitler and Mussolini did and used their strategies for acquiring and growing power to define fascism. If Trump is doing similar things, the name doesn't matter; it's the response of the followers that's significant.
21
Nicely written column. So nice to read a columnist who actually has an interest in what fascism is and isn't. Keep going.
Thanks for the good work. I know that the writing trade for the Times certainly doesn't pay what you could get on the outside.
Thanks for the good work. I know that the writing trade for the Times certainly doesn't pay what you could get on the outside.
"If Republicans don’t want Trump the phenomenon to turn into an actual movement . . . . " is the real question here. Donald Trump is clearly a fascist, as nicely documented here by the writer and recognizable from the start to anyone paying attention. The classification may be incendiary to some Americans but that doesn't make it any less accurate.
10
The guy whose father used to work in a pork processing plant in Iowa for good union wages now sees that plant filled with Mexican immigrants making minimum wage (if that). The washing machine factories have been shut down and sent to China. There are no more good, middle class, blue collar jobs in his world. And he is mad!
The Democrats turned their back on him in the 1990's and have done nothing since to win him back. Forcing him to buy an overpriced health plan with a $7500 deductible is not addressing his economic needs and insecurities.
Personally, I think Trump is a fascist and a sociopath and a great danger to this country, but I understand his appeal to angry, frustrated low-information voters who have been abandoned by the party of Roosevelt and manipulated by the party of Reagan.
What needs to happen is two-fold. Real Democrats need to reclaim the Democratic Party from the Clinton Centrists and make it a voice for ALL working people again. And the Clintonists need go where they belong--to the Republican Party as a socially moderate, big business wing.
The Democrats turned their back on him in the 1990's and have done nothing since to win him back. Forcing him to buy an overpriced health plan with a $7500 deductible is not addressing his economic needs and insecurities.
Personally, I think Trump is a fascist and a sociopath and a great danger to this country, but I understand his appeal to angry, frustrated low-information voters who have been abandoned by the party of Roosevelt and manipulated by the party of Reagan.
What needs to happen is two-fold. Real Democrats need to reclaim the Democratic Party from the Clinton Centrists and make it a voice for ALL working people again. And the Clintonists need go where they belong--to the Republican Party as a socially moderate, big business wing.
22
What's the issue? If it's Limited freedoms or security, then in the face of those Illusions all presidents have been to fascist. Wake up and smell the cosmoline!
From day one of Mr Trump's oddysey, I thought that his campaign had fascist tendencies. However, it was after reading some of the comments from his supporters on sites like Breitbart, etc. that I really became scared.
6
The best comment on Republican fascism came from Molly Ivins in response to Pat Buchanan's speech at the 1992 Republican National Convention: "Many people did not care for Pat Buchanan's speech; it probably sounded better in the original German."
24
If Ann Coulter is an "intellectual," why can't Trump be a fascist?
11
Maybe people fancy Trump because theyre sick of the way this once wonderful country has become. Im tired of having to "press 1" for English.
And Im not certainly tired of the thousands and thousands of dollars I spend in taxes a year to go to the grocery store and have to stand behind "someone" yakking on their IPhone - with perfect nails and gold jewelry pulling out their food stamp card...some of us can remember the way it used to be......
And Im not certainly tired of the thousands and thousands of dollars I spend in taxes a year to go to the grocery store and have to stand behind "someone" yakking on their IPhone - with perfect nails and gold jewelry pulling out their food stamp card...some of us can remember the way it used to be......
7
What an embarrassing column for Ross Douthat. On one hand, he explicitly acknowledges that Trump meets the criteria articulated by Eco, but in the same breath he describes Trump's racism as merely 'illiberal musings.' Trump doesn't have to ask his supporters to don brown shirts to coopt the Tea Party movement. He doesn't need to mobilize thugs into roving gangs because social media and right wing media have already proven able to produce assaults on minorities, women's clinics, and protestors. Among the moves one cannot make as a Catholic is tacit acceptance and tolerance of fascism or underestimation of its pernicious consequences.
7
If your answer to "Is the candidate a fascist?" is Yes, mostly ... you just might be in the wrong political party. You think?
10
Trump's problem for the Republican establishment is that he is transparent about his fascism while the other GOP presidential pretenders make at least some effort to disguise theirs.
15
You forgot one similarity: Mussolini used to point to the greatness of the Roman Empire and promised that he could return Italy to it's ancient splendors ... "Make Italy great again" ... sounds familiar ?
You first two reasons of dismissing the fascist label for Trump don't hold up. Not building a movement and the fact that the GOP might be inoculated against him could indicate that he will not succeed, not that he is not a fascist (which he clearly is).
You first two reasons of dismissing the fascist label for Trump don't hold up. Not building a movement and the fact that the GOP might be inoculated against him could indicate that he will not succeed, not that he is not a fascist (which he clearly is).
12
I find it rather funny and sad that conservatives, you included, want to disassociate themselves from Trump when in fact he is saying basically what every other Republican candidate and pol is saying. Only the brutality of Trump's honesty is nettling because it is de-masking all the lies and cynicism upon which the current Conservative movement is based.
Why does Trump exist? No need to go back to George Wallace or the John Birch Society. Trump exists because the Koch's have managed to buy whole state houses with their money. Lies and money work with a very under-educated and ill-informed population.
Why does Trump exist? No need to go back to George Wallace or the John Birch Society. Trump exists because the Koch's have managed to buy whole state houses with their money. Lies and money work with a very under-educated and ill-informed population.
20
"And part of the explanation has to be that the American conservative tradition has always included important elements — a libertarian skepticism of state power, a stress on localism and states’ rights, a religious and particularly Protestant emphasis on the conscience of an individual over the power of the collective — that inoculated our politics against fascism’s appeal."
This is ridiculous. Have you heard of Franco. You know, the one who made Spain a Catholic, confessional state and used the church as an allay (which they still are in Spain). Oh yes, Christian religion certainly inoculates against fascism.
This is ridiculous. Have you heard of Franco. You know, the one who made Spain a Catholic, confessional state and used the church as an allay (which they still are in Spain). Oh yes, Christian religion certainly inoculates against fascism.
7
The conflation of the name, "Ann Coulter" with the word "intellectual", even when qualified by the oxymoronic term "far-right", had me fall on the floor with laughter........
18
"Is Donald Trump a Fascist?"
"Is water wet?"
"Is the Pope Catholic?"
"Does a Bear relieve himself in the woods?"
The answer is YES
"Is water wet?"
"Is the Pope Catholic?"
"Does a Bear relieve himself in the woods?"
The answer is YES
11
"The best way to stop a proto-fascist, in the long run, is not to scream “Hitler!” on a crowded debate stage. It’s to make sure that he never has a point."
Ah yes - we'll beat them with logic facts. That always works.
Ah yes - we'll beat them with logic facts. That always works.
12
If "The Donald" can settle the Israel- Palestine in 6 months since he is the perfect negotiator, he should suspend his campaign and do so. He would be elected by a HUGE majority for President if he did it , without any campaigning . Put your money where your mouth is.
9
Was Mussolini a fascist? Yes, but let's not dwell on that. Let's look at the good things he did for Italy. Oh wait - there was that pact with Hitler and Tojo. Oh well.
5
Douthat’s best point is that Americans may actually have reasons for their disgust with the political Establishment. The Establishment naturally doesn’t want to deal with this question and prefers to shoot the messenger, Trump. But the problem is not the politicians themselves, but our culture’s deep division about “ultimate” things. E.g. is there or is there not objective truth? The answer has profound political consequences. American politics were productive in the last century because the left and right were partners in “The Grand Neo-Keynesian Consensus” on economics. The end of that agreement has resurrected deeper issues earlier ignored. My bet is that the real problem will be confronted only in respone to a deep financial convulsion about which many skilled financial writers have been warning in the face of denial and indifference.
5
Now we can understand viscerally how someone like Mussolini came to power. Scary that it could happen here, but I would hope that even if he's nominated, Americans will see through his bluster and understand how dangerous he is.
2
I don't think anyone is "panicked", Ross. But if people elsewhere knew--if even you knew--the things going on in states like mine, how determined those in power are to combat what they call "political correctness", how well they can and do quash any dissent, and how much they welcome a fascist mentality, you'd find grounds for uneasiness, a very reasonable uneasiness indeed.
9
Well, at least Trump would make the trains run on time - if we still had any trains.
7
"the absence of a real American fascism"
Ever hear of slavery? What about Jim Crow?
That's where I stopped reading, and also when it occurred to me how glad I am to have left such a delusional country.
Ever hear of slavery? What about Jim Crow?
That's where I stopped reading, and also when it occurred to me how glad I am to have left such a delusional country.
5
It is a mistake (to be charitable) to say liberals labeled republicans as fascists. That has not happened or at least not come to the attention of the populace. However, to define Fascism, in today's world, based on Hitler and Mussolini from 85 years ago is intellectually lazy. The world of 2015 is not the world of 1930. There can be Fascism today that would not look like Nazi Germany or Fascist Italy. The Oxford Dictionary defines Fascism as "An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.". We can find all kind of countries that fit that definition in today's world. So it seems clear that Fascism is always a possibility. I do see the possibility of a very religious person becoming President and obliterating the wall between church and state. That, like Iran, Saudi Arabia, and other religious states are examples of modern day Fascism.
3
More food for thought from Eco's taxonomy of fascism as referenced by Mr. Douthat: "The [Italian] Fascist Party was born boasting that it brought a revolutionary new order; but it was financed by the most conservative among the landowners who expected from it a counter-revolution. At its beginning fascism was republican."
1
One can hope that Trump will cause the term "politically correct" to go away.
When being "politically correct" means not committing war crimes or murder (e.g., by "taking out" the families of terrorists), then politically correct means observing the most basic moral principles of humanity.
When being "politically correct" means not committing war crimes or murder (e.g., by "taking out" the families of terrorists), then politically correct means observing the most basic moral principles of humanity.
3
Donald Trump is able to convince many that he is a brilliant leader through tough-guy posturing. he is not new to the method. Both Mussolini and Hitler used similar projections of being strongmen that could restore greatness to a nation portrayed as weak and failing. Trump honed his skills on Reality TV shows. Look at films of the facial expressions of Mussolini during his speeches and then look at Trump's expressions and poses. There is much in common. Trump also plays on nationalism and xenophobia and his ex-wife Ivana said that he kept the writings Hitler by his bedside. The American Heritage Dictionary defines fascism: “A system of government that exercises a dictatorship of the extreme right, typically through the merging of state and business leadership, together with belligerent nationalism.” There i no doubt, Trump is indeed a fascist. With its low level of knowledge and its passivity, the American electorate he does represent a true danger not to be ignored. It can happen here!
7
I had not so long ago written a comment about Trump and called him a fascist. For the first time, my comment was not published, and I assumed the fascist thing was the reason. Whatever the reason, I still think Trump is an American home grown fascist for whom the support is mind-boggling. No, he is not a Hitler and no institutionalized military. It is his treatment of others, his total lack of nuance, (read primitive black and white thinking) and a bottomless egotism. Most upsetting to me is the fact that some of my countrymen and women find him an attractive candidate. Whether he wins the nomination or not, his current popularity is depressing enough.
6
If conservative apologists are coming to see the resemblance to what Sinclair laid out in "It Can't Happen Here" then I think moderates and those on the left can take cold comfort in having been right all along. Maybe we should stop wondering how Hitler duped all those Germans and wonder why so many of us are being duped by the likes of Trump, because it can happen here. But only if we let it.
4
It is clear that most people who use the term "fascist" really don't know what it means., if indeed it has any contemporary meaning. In fact, it is used overwhelmingly as a pejorative, to insult someone the speaker wishes to insult. Perhaps we should reserve the term for someone who self-identifies as such?
Ross Douthat greatly underestimates the potential support base of The Donald* in the Republican Party.
As I read it Trump should easily be able to consolidate all of the supporters of Benjamin Carson and Rafael Eduardo Cruz.
The former since their inability to see his plain incapacity to be a plausibly national leader mark them as try "Know Nothings"; the latter since he is reading from the same proto-Fascist play-book, just picking smoother plays.
According to the latest Quinnipiac Poll those three have 59% of Republican support.
Maybe a minority of the Republican Party is innoculated Ross, but the majority seem ready to receive infection.
*Eerie isn't it. The Donald. Il Duce.
As I read it Trump should easily be able to consolidate all of the supporters of Benjamin Carson and Rafael Eduardo Cruz.
The former since their inability to see his plain incapacity to be a plausibly national leader mark them as try "Know Nothings"; the latter since he is reading from the same proto-Fascist play-book, just picking smoother plays.
According to the latest Quinnipiac Poll those three have 59% of Republican support.
Maybe a minority of the Republican Party is innoculated Ross, but the majority seem ready to receive infection.
*Eerie isn't it. The Donald. Il Duce.
4
It is time to put away the F word. It has no value other than rhetorical. A lot of readers seems to equate it with racism because of the Nazi or with being nutty because of Mussolini but what it really entailed was putting the state on a pedestal as the necessary first condition of political order. It was a believe that human beings as atomized individuals have no ability to formulate meaningful goals for themselves and will fall into chaos and anarchy without proper leadership. Whatever else one can say about the problems facing the United States, that level of state worship is not in the cards. A year from now, when Hillary Clinton is President, Republicans will again be asking why Latinos didn't vote for their candidate and this whole fascism discussion will settle itself on the rubbish heap of history until some other leftist decides its time to pull it out and hurl at some right wing Republican who may be profoundly deluded regarding what is wrong with this country but is not a fascist.
1
Maybe panic is wrong because it denotes a disorganized or ineffectual response, but equivocation and equanimity will not address the danger of Trump and his minions, or Ted Cruz and his incendiary rhetoric, either. When over 70% of Republicans polled think Trump is a viable candidate, we are all in peril. If the Republicans in Congress don't forcefully denounce and repudiate these fascists (even Ross Douthat sees them for what they are!), they deserve to go down in flames with them. What is really appalling is that so many are so sanguine about the threat they represent. It's time to retire the clown car and recognize how dangerous these demagogues-in-waiting really are. That they represent any significant percentage of the American electorate is what's truly scary.
4
Wrong question. Trump is not a Svengali mesmerizing the Republican electorate who support him in the polls, he is voicing the attitudes of that group in a manner which resonates with them, so they support him in the polls. It's time to make some remedial efforts to separate opinions from facts in the way our mass media reports on politicians and upon current events, instead of giving equal time and weight to the reasonable and fair as well as the biased and incredible. Science supports evolution and Genesis is not a equivalent explanation, it is a belief based upon sacred text asserted to be of divine origin, the kinds of knowledge represented are not interchangeable, they are completely different. The same goes for many other controversial issues, the media does not explain the differences and it leads to ignorance rather than to enlightenment because people do not know how to interpret them.
5
Make sure Trump does not have a point?
You mean actually stop obstructionist misgovernment?
Stop trying the bring about the "failure" of the President?
You mean actually do something to build the nation (think: infrastructure) and reward fairly those who build it?
Ross - if you completed that thought, you would become an instant RINO. You know that, that's why you left it hanging.
Thank you for making clear that making America safe for Fascism is the very core of the Republican Party platform.
You mean actually stop obstructionist misgovernment?
Stop trying the bring about the "failure" of the President?
You mean actually do something to build the nation (think: infrastructure) and reward fairly those who build it?
Ross - if you completed that thought, you would become an instant RINO. You know that, that's why you left it hanging.
Thank you for making clear that making America safe for Fascism is the very core of the Republican Party platform.
8
Character flaws aside, the man does not have a fine mind. Nor does not have an elegant personality. He is a bully through and through. The last thing this country needs in this age in this violent world is a bully who doesn't think complexly or behave appropriately.
5
By virtue of Demonizing Trump, other villains become saints. The potential President should not be chosen from the lesser of a dozen or so evils or inadequates. The election should not be about the candidates but about the public they will represent. Our President should not be selected based on a pseudo Rotten Tomatoes evaluation.
2
Rather than consulting "It Can't Happen Here" and "The Plot Against America," we might consider Richard Hofstadter's "The Paranoid Style in American Politics" and Walter Benjamin's comments in "The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction" about fascism as politics emptied of moral or even political content and replaced with pure spectacle. The xenophobic and racist violence that Trump plays with isn't serious policy - it's all about Trump as a brand. A good parallel to his tactics are those of Silvio Berlusconi, who held Italy in economic and political thrall for over a quarter of a century, feeding on much the same anxieties and frustrations in the electorate there. Trump doesn't need jack-booted paramilitary squads to enforce his agenda. He is a monster of the right who feeds of a deep-seated violence in our political life.
4
This is truly a tortured explanation of both fascism and the baffling horse race over on the Republican side. Conservatives have a long history of trying to explain away their shadow side, their radical edge. Bookstores are full of long winded explanations how fascism or Hitler are really liberal and not conservative misgivings. Somehow Ross has managed to ignore the root dynamic action of fascism; and that is an (unholy) alliance between commerce and government. All the tribal proclivities then observed and alluded to here are a result of that. Ross seems to be covering up what already is a strong odor coming from the right. Any of those characteristics could be pinned on many if not all their frontrunners. Conservatives are the consummate name callers- Communist, Socialist even Liberal! By trying to explain Trump’s energy this way, he gives the other candidates good cover to do exactly that, in a more covert way. The problem for liberals is accepting that the whole country has a background stench of fascism for which they neglect to call more often. Funny how Ross tries to say liberals are always referring to conservatives as fascists. Funny in a not so funny way.
3
Pretty darn good column. Two points. One, the Republican party establishment has been slow even to whisper "fascist" because of its difficulty in distinguishing Trump from them in terms of the defining characteristics of a fascist. Two, it is eager to dismiss Trump as if, with his expulsion, it can disarm disaffection among its "base" and more reasonable people outside its base: the demonstrable failures of the party's political and economic principles.
The party's post 2012 election analysis argued for a need to appeal to women and minorities without addressing their issues except by modernizing the delivery of the same message which has not appealed to them. To survive, the party is going to have to abandon its nineteenth-century economic and political principles, and find ways to articulate a true conservatism respectful of all people h ere and abroad, of democratic principles above capitalist ones, and of historical and scientific truth.
The party's post 2012 election analysis argued for a need to appeal to women and minorities without addressing their issues except by modernizing the delivery of the same message which has not appealed to them. To survive, the party is going to have to abandon its nineteenth-century economic and political principles, and find ways to articulate a true conservatism respectful of all people h ere and abroad, of democratic principles above capitalist ones, and of historical and scientific truth.
3
I'm still rather baffled by Trump's popularity.
Frankly, he's been a bore during the debates.
Frankly, he's been a bore during the debates.
3
To me, the danger of Donald Trump isn't that he might win. It's that he pulls the boundary of reasonable debate to a more dangerous place.
We already have the most polarized political situation in more than a century, and we need candidates who can bridge the two sides. We don't need candidates who make previously unacceptable and terribly divisive jargon acceptable, whether the issue is immigration, women's health, guns, foreign policy, climate, and so on.
We already have the most polarized political situation in more than a century, and we need candidates who can bridge the two sides. We don't need candidates who make previously unacceptable and terribly divisive jargon acceptable, whether the issue is immigration, women's health, guns, foreign policy, climate, and so on.
4
Obama supporters desperate to lump Donald Trump in with the same GOP establishment that has never supported him.
Oh what fun it is to ride...
Oh what fun it is to ride...
2
Douthat seems to suggest that Trump can't succeed because he can't get 40-50% of voter support. In the primaries, a candidate can win the nomination with a plurality. 30% support is plenty to win Trump to get the nomination. The only way that can go against him - i.e. he loses the nomination with 30% - him is if 1. Enough candidates drop out early enough to coalesce around another candidate, and 2. Republican primary voters can agree on an alternative candidate to back. For instance, Carly Fiorina or John Kasich - or both - dropping out does not give Jeb! the electoral heft to beat Donald Trump, even if every single Kasich and Fiotina voter switches allegiance to Jeb! Donald Trump is at the top with a solid chunk of votes in a very splintered electorate. I think he can win the GOP nomination with his solid 30%. If he does, and enough republicans and Hillary haters are willing to hold their noses and vote for him, we might be welcoming a President Trump to DC.
I use the word Fascist far too often even though it hasn't had any meaning since William Francis Buckley Jr changed the name of his father's politics from Spanish Fascism to American Conservatism.
William F Buckley Sr was proud to call himself a Franco Fascist but 1950s America and Joseph Raymond McCarthy saw us all Americanize our names.
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html
William F Buckley Sr was proud to call himself a Franco Fascist but 1950s America and Joseph Raymond McCarthy saw us all Americanize our names.
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html
2
Mr. Douthat has a modicum of sensibility on his grasp of Donald Trump's elusive appeal to a certain segment of the American electorate & his advice to GOP candidates is astute. Although, what is particularly dangerous about Donald Trump is his mental acuity to discern the precise buttons to press to excite his ardent supporters which usually tend to offend those with keener aspirations than how to life themselves out of poverty. My hunch is that Donald Trump is a master of popular psychology who, in his eternal quest for greed & power, is willing to insult his way into the White House. Just as many CEOs rely on the glibness & deceptive art of advertising to increase sales volume even if their product is known to cause cancer, heart &/or lung disease, cirrhosis of the liver or diabetes (e.g. tobacco, fast food, soda drinks, alcohol, pharmaceutical & pesticide big business) Donald Trump is willing to spew toxic messages anathema to civil society & the teachings in church & school, in order to win the Presidency thus feeding his gargantuan narcissistic ego & allowing him to amass even greater wealth in the process. He will lie like Pinocchio as he knows foolheartedly that this slithery behavior will cause him to win the hearts & minds of his underclass wannabe Geppettos. He cleverly knows that unabashedly using regular Joe speech & opposing unpopular blue collar ideology like immigration, TPP, gun control, diplomacy, etc. will win him popularity & a large mob of followers.
2
Trump really is not that good of a politician. Hes really not. Its simply his positions on issues that are unique that are driving his popularity.
Fact: Almost all of America outside of some "interests" groups want the craziness at the border under control, don't want to have to subsidize foreigners living here, and don't want to have to live in what is essentially drug cartel territory.
Fact: The government has failed to secure America effectively, with that being its primary job, and are letting streams of foreigners come in and settle here without paying a hoot of attention to the national security implications, let alone the public safety and health issues.
Trump is the ONLY one addressing these issues that are of overriding importance and I as a democrat will tolerate a large degree of conservatism to get the functionally insane people in charge of our immigration out of power and putting the bipartisan interests of the locals FIRST.
Fact: Almost all of America outside of some "interests" groups want the craziness at the border under control, don't want to have to subsidize foreigners living here, and don't want to have to live in what is essentially drug cartel territory.
Fact: The government has failed to secure America effectively, with that being its primary job, and are letting streams of foreigners come in and settle here without paying a hoot of attention to the national security implications, let alone the public safety and health issues.
Trump is the ONLY one addressing these issues that are of overriding importance and I as a democrat will tolerate a large degree of conservatism to get the functionally insane people in charge of our immigration out of power and putting the bipartisan interests of the locals FIRST.
3
Douthat finally finally skitters away from his own analysis which persuasively argues Trump displays all the hallmarks of Fascism. Because he hasn't taken over yet. I guess we should just wait to see how it all turns out. Keep our fingers crossed that his xenophobic ideas and authoritarian personality don't transform into a mass movement and then into something worse. Douthat believes "real conservatism" will save us from Fascism. That was not the case in Germany or Italy. If one continues to argue it can't happen here, let's not forgot that European Fascism began with a generation of paralyzed and ineffective central government that undermined democratic institutions and values. Hmmmm.
3
I don't think Trump is a Fascist, but Umberto Eco is definitely not a polymath.
3
Elite media worries about labeling someone while the world burns. Still missing the boat...
3
He appeals because he's paying his own way and isn't reading from a script. That's why he can seem nuts--but what is nuts often feels real. Voters love real. Or, rather, "real."
2
(NY TIMES--Please use this comment of mine, not previous two. Thx.) Trump may turn out to be Our Hitler (hopefully not). But what I think is pretty certain about him is that he is a narcissist, and a bully. In a smart, caring, decent world, that would automatically disqualify him (or anyone) from the job. But what's also kind of interesting to me about his campaign is that by his behavior and proclamations and lack of evidence or much specificity about how he'll accomplish what he says he'll do as Our Leader, I think we are getting some insights into how he makes his business deals. So it makes me wonder, why would anyone, let alone We The People, want to enter into any kind of business relationship with him when he doesn't specify, just promises, essentially saying, "Trust me, and don't worry about the details, because I know what I'm doing, because I'm the best?" His campaign is really a brutish and egotistical businessman's sales pitch to the American people badgering us to enter into a contact with him and sign it on Election Day, but before we can actually read it to know exactly what the deal is. Who would want a guy like this as a business, or any kind of, partner? Or much more importantly, as Our President?!
5
We American Ex-Patriates in Germany are being asked by our friends if America has gone mad.
From a former New Yorker
From a former New Yorker
5
Trump a Fascist ? Probably, but mostly he's a greedy, Self-obsessed Windbag. The Real question 'Are you dumb enough to want anyone like that for President ? ' No Experience, No Morality (how many wives so far ?), Despises the poor, the working class, and the people who trust in God. That makes him a sure fire failure as a leader, so naturally he's a darling of the Rightwing Rich guys. In a sense Trump what we should reap, since he is surely what we sow. God Help Us !
2
Trump is simply clearing the way for a candidate who is far smarter than Trump, far more devious than Trump and ultimately far scarier than Trump, Ted Cruz.
5
Absurd to say that the Republican party is innoculated against Fascism. It has long historical roots. Everyone I know or knew who lived through the thirties was terrified about the possibility of American Fascism. The hallmark of Fascism is to alliance of business with an active state that restrict the rights of workers or dissenters. The Republicans have been heading in that direction for years. In that respect, as in others, Trumpism is the logical end-point of Reaganism and Citizens United.
10
So Ross you basically have identified that Trump walks like a Fascist and talks like a Fascist, but we shouldn't say so. How is the best way to stop a Fascist not calling him a Fascist or confronting him about being a Fascist? You seem to suggest that confronting Fascists about being Fascists will "have them return, stronger and deadlier, further down the road." How is not confronting them going to lead to a better result?
What in the world were you thinking?
What in the world were you thinking?
9
The Nazi party won only 3% of the vote in 1924. By 1933, Hitler was chancellor. This was possible in part because the German political system enabled the Nazis to gain a toehold in the government despite very limited initial support. But the fact that Trump has far more support now then Hitler did at the beginning of his rise to power is frightening enough. At first I thought Trump was amusing, the same way I found Herman Cain amusing. Now I despise him because he is a legitimate political force. He is not only giving voice to the hatred, intolerance, bigotry, and misogyny of a segment of Americans, but I fear he is fomenting those attitudes. The more days he spends at the top of the news and top of the polls, the more people may give in to their lesser angels to join him and embolden him. The passions Trump stirs are frightening and sinister. He should not be taken lightly. Remember Hitler.
5
"Is Donald Trump a Fascist?"
Of course he's a fascist. So what? He's still better than the rest of the GOP. Especially the "Establishment." It's the "Establishment" that got us where we are. It's the "Establishment" that implemented the Southern Strategy, and unleashed the conservative racists hordes as their base. It's the "Establishment" that denies human-caused global warming. It's the "Establishment" that gave America supply-side stupidity. It's the "Establishment" that, for two generations, taught its minions to disrespect and disparage its own government and even the very idea of solving problems with collective action.
Donald Trump's a joke, a menace to decency, a symptom of a country that's lost any dedication to rational thought. And he's still better than what the "Establishment" would foist upon the country and world.
Trump >>>> Christie, Bush, Cruz, Kasich, ...
And that's the sad, sad, sad truth.
Of course he's a fascist. So what? He's still better than the rest of the GOP. Especially the "Establishment." It's the "Establishment" that got us where we are. It's the "Establishment" that implemented the Southern Strategy, and unleashed the conservative racists hordes as their base. It's the "Establishment" that denies human-caused global warming. It's the "Establishment" that gave America supply-side stupidity. It's the "Establishment" that, for two generations, taught its minions to disrespect and disparage its own government and even the very idea of solving problems with collective action.
Donald Trump's a joke, a menace to decency, a symptom of a country that's lost any dedication to rational thought. And he's still better than what the "Establishment" would foist upon the country and world.
Trump >>>> Christie, Bush, Cruz, Kasich, ...
And that's the sad, sad, sad truth.
4
Donald J is a great American who wants to make America great again. He is accomplishing that feat by standing up in front of god and everyone else pewling the most inane drivel he can imagine to capture the imaginations of the electorate that can be fooled all of the time. That is the very constituency every other Republican claiming to be conservative has cultivated since Richard Nixon took in the racists from lost cause states abandoned by Lyndon Johnson and the democrats in 1964. Donald J Trump is a rat catcher, and he will spirit away the childish firebrand and pitchfork constituency fathered by generations of demagogues providing hate and discontent with foreign enemies and assorted domestic boogeymen disqualified to be accepted as real Americans. The only difference between Donald J Trump and any other Republican is how he says things not what he says. God bless Donald J Trump. Go Donald and take the lowest common denominator of debased conservatism along with you.
i think trump is getting tired of all this and would have stopped a while ago but can't get off the pony
Wow Ross, this statement actually makes you sound like a progressive: " the legitimate reasons he’s gotten this far — the deep disaffection with the Republican Party’s economic policies among working-class conservatives, the reasonable skepticism about the bipartisan consensus favoring ever more mass low-skilled immigration, the accurate sense that the American elite has misgoverned the country at home and abroad." I hate to break it to you, but this is what the democrats have been saying since Reagan.
2
While it is indeed entertaining to watch The Donald steamrolling over the media and his GOP competitors with his unique brand of ignorance, bombast, and bigotry, at some point, which I believe we have already passed, it starts to lose its appeal.
This man is making a mockery of what was once a proud and respected political system and I can only hope that the American public at-large will reject his self-aggrandizing foray into politics.
We need to choose leaders with maturity, wisdom, and an ability to bring people together. Mr Trump is clearly lacking in all of these traits.
This man is making a mockery of what was once a proud and respected political system and I can only hope that the American public at-large will reject his self-aggrandizing foray into politics.
We need to choose leaders with maturity, wisdom, and an ability to bring people together. Mr Trump is clearly lacking in all of these traits.
2
I'm amused at Mr. Douthat's claim that America never produced a fascist movement years ago...
Perhaps he should go read about Marine Corps Major-General Smedley Butler, who in 1933 was approached by a group of conservative, right-wing fascist Republican business leaders, who sought to convince him to lead a military coup to oust President Roosevelt, and to replace our democracy with a Republican-run oligarchy of the rich and powerful.
Only the honorable behavior of a great American military officer prevented what could well have been a fascist dictatorship in America, as Butler turned them all in. Incredibly, not one was prosecuted, and the names Gen. Butler gave to a Congressional Committee were subsequently redacted.
Fascism has often been only a small step away from taking control in America. By contrast, Mr. Douthat's frightful Communist and/or Socialist movements have never even been close to winning a single major election, must less taking over the nation.
Perhaps he should go read about Marine Corps Major-General Smedley Butler, who in 1933 was approached by a group of conservative, right-wing fascist Republican business leaders, who sought to convince him to lead a military coup to oust President Roosevelt, and to replace our democracy with a Republican-run oligarchy of the rich and powerful.
Only the honorable behavior of a great American military officer prevented what could well have been a fascist dictatorship in America, as Butler turned them all in. Incredibly, not one was prosecuted, and the names Gen. Butler gave to a Congressional Committee were subsequently redacted.
Fascism has often been only a small step away from taking control in America. By contrast, Mr. Douthat's frightful Communist and/or Socialist movements have never even been close to winning a single major election, must less taking over the nation.
6
And I'm sure someone wrote an article in the 1930s asking "Is Hitler a fascist" too.
3
What is this world coming to when Republicans curse each other as Fascists? Does Fascist mean nothing anymore?
1
Most Americans use the word "Facism" without understanding what it truly means. Facism is a political philosophy that embraces a melding of Business and Givernment under a Military oversight.
Trump, a man who keeps a copy of "Mein Kampf" on his night table.
Is he a "Hitler"; not necessarily. However his words indicate that his administration would be prone to accept the no-holds manipulation by Corporationss and the Pentagon. Add to this Trump's remarks against Latinos and Muslims which add a racist hue to his campaign.
If it walks like a duck, or a storm trooper, it's Facism.
Trump, a man who keeps a copy of "Mein Kampf" on his night table.
Is he a "Hitler"; not necessarily. However his words indicate that his administration would be prone to accept the no-holds manipulation by Corporationss and the Pentagon. Add to this Trump's remarks against Latinos and Muslims which add a racist hue to his campaign.
If it walks like a duck, or a storm trooper, it's Facism.
3
God almighty. Can the apologies stop once and for all.
This isn't a question of "liberal" definitions. The man is a deplorable, unapologetic racist who lies about every issue of critical importance.
Stop with the hair splitting. Fascist or otherwise, this man is simply dangerous, dumb, dangerous, and despotic. Isn't that enough to end the conversation for anyone with half a brain. Which, thankfully, should even account for 77 percent of Republican voters.
This isn't a question of "liberal" definitions. The man is a deplorable, unapologetic racist who lies about every issue of critical importance.
Stop with the hair splitting. Fascist or otherwise, this man is simply dangerous, dumb, dangerous, and despotic. Isn't that enough to end the conversation for anyone with half a brain. Which, thankfully, should even account for 77 percent of Republican voters.
7
Is Donald Trump a Fascist?
Yes.
Why did you write the rest of the column Ross?
Yes.
Why did you write the rest of the column Ross?
10
Ross dares to call Ann Coulter an "intellectual"? Egads, no wonder the GOP is imploding.
8
I was surprised at Thanksgiving to learn that two of my three brothers are Trump supporters. I asked why and it came down to one thing--illegal immigration. My one brother was a Union carpenter and lost lots of work to undocumented immigrants. My other brother, in IT, watched his various jobs be systematically given to H1-Bs or just outsourced to India.
Trump has no motivation to actually do anything about illegal immigration since I'm sure it's enriching him as much as it enriches other wealthy people (and allows upper middle class liberals like me to live better by being able to afford maids and housekeepers), but a HUGE swath of the country is being objectively harmed by illegal immigration and they are going to vote.
Trump has no motivation to actually do anything about illegal immigration since I'm sure it's enriching him as much as it enriches other wealthy people (and allows upper middle class liberals like me to live better by being able to afford maids and housekeepers), but a HUGE swath of the country is being objectively harmed by illegal immigration and they are going to vote.
4
Is that what America needs, a president who is a little fascistic before he takes power? Fascism has many definitions. To me it is organized selfishness. To FDR it came down to any person, group or class who would privatize and own government for their own benefit and profit. Fascism is neither majoritorian, democratic or just; and it’s foundation is always force both police and military and a number of lies and un-disputable “truths” which dare not be questioned, plus a common enemy who deserve neither liberty or due process. The GOP is a fascist party.
4
I think Mr. Douthat is putting too much stock in the elements that make up the American conservative tradition as it relates to 21st century American politics to keep a lid on the likes of Donald Trump. In 30 short years we have gone from an individual in the conservative tradition such as Ronald Reagan, who could work amicably with Tip O'neill, to the likes of Donald Trump. There are several reasons that I fear that this may be happening. First, the hierarchy of the Republican party is too timid to go after him. Second, some of the other Republican candidates are even emulating him. Third, libertarianism I feel is now defined as not wanting the state to tell you what to do, but not at all minding telling others what they should be doing. Fourth, politicians of Donald Trumps stripe in the past didn't get any traction or durability with the American people the way that Donald Trump seems to. If you would have asked me several months ago if I thought that Donald Trump would even still be in the race, I would have told you an emphatic "no way." The fact that he is still in it and leading it at this point makes me very concerned - to say the least.
4
A well written article.
I am a liberal who doesn't "sling" the fascist label on Donald Trump. I think that it is beside the point to direct your article towards that pejorative label, unless you can't resist poking liberals. It doesn't do any good to sling labels like that. Too easy, you know, like Trump proclaiming that Bernie Sanders is a communist who will take all your wealth away. Your emphasis ought to be on the egregious harm a Trump presidency will be on everything we hold dear as Americans and on the future we want to entrust to our kids. He has no principles, no democratic or humanitrian instincts. He is far from a clown or even a comic bully; he is one dangerous dude; which is one reason I have hope that the American people will reject him.
4
So Trump doesn't have many choices. If he truly believes what he says, that is very disturbing......as disturbing as those who would for him. If it is all just a show, then I don't think he can be viewed a serious candidate.
I'm betting it's just a show. His recent pronouncement that he would not attend the next debate unless he was paid $5,000,000 is, I believe just a ploy to back out. He's had his fun; he's boosted his ratings but in the end, he's terrified at the prospect of actually being held accountable.
It's just a shame that he's been such a distraction for such a long time.
I'm betting it's just a show. His recent pronouncement that he would not attend the next debate unless he was paid $5,000,000 is, I believe just a ploy to back out. He's had his fun; he's boosted his ratings but in the end, he's terrified at the prospect of actually being held accountable.
It's just a shame that he's been such a distraction for such a long time.
1
Time for the Republican Establishment to realize that when you lay dogs, sooner or later, you get fleas. For years, Republicans have tolerated our most intolerant citizens, and have crafted their platforms, but not sufficiently, their actions, to appease and bring them under their tent. Sooner or later, the dogs realize they haven't been fed, bark back and can no longer be held at bay. Enter Trump. He is close enough to fascist for me, and Douthout can claim otherwise, apparently, based only on the electoral calendar. Trump is the Republican Establishment's rich reward. Not time to panic--yet? This statement only reveals how deeply the deal with the devil has pervaded even the Republican chattering class, who are at least freed from the problems of elections and are free to speak the truth. In other words, Ross, you seem bot believe it is OK for Trump to spew this stuff as long as we save Republicans come November by dressing up Trump's meanness in a more likeable way. This is exactly the way of thinking that brought Republicans to their knees. I would tell you to stand up to him if you had a spine remaining. Whatever happened to the Republican party of Jim Leach, William Weld, Everett Dirksen, Edmund Brooke? They would never had made the deals the current Republicans' have made. They would have called Trump out long ago.
1
The real question is has the GOP become fascist - Sure would explain Trump's enduring appeal to the GOP base.
If you ask me, if it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, walks like a duck.
It's a duck
If you ask me, if it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, walks like a duck.
It's a duck
3
I find Mr. Douthat to be fairly incoherent in most of his columns, but this one takes the cake. He details Trump's fascism, along with its appeal to voters, and then he suggests not calling it that and denouncing it--in the name of some other vaguely strategic approach.
The New York Times publishes quite a range of obvious nonsense masquerading as sober public policy op-eds. Why? Here's betting they would trot out the "balance" answer. Not only does such "balance" make sure little changes; it could also lead to, well, fascism.
The New York Times publishes quite a range of obvious nonsense masquerading as sober public policy op-eds. Why? Here's betting they would trot out the "balance" answer. Not only does such "balance" make sure little changes; it could also lead to, well, fascism.
2
If this is the best conservative thinking among Republicans who can read without moving their lips, we are in serious trouble.
4
Mr Douthat, ever the apologist for Republicans attempts to diminish the real danger of fascism within current Republican ideology, as if somehow Conservatism is immune to fascism. Has he forgotten the ultimate confluence of Conservative ideology and Fascism--Joe McCarthy? I would say that Donald Trump would happily step into those shoes, if the country is so delusional that it elects him president. Mr Douthat, also the apologist for Catholicism, a religion with so much evil in its past, often rants about his opposition to abortion rights. Why in any universe does he get to make pronouncements about decisions a woman should be able to make about her own body?
3
We can all only hope that Trump continues to win the right 35%, wins the Republican nomination. He'd lose the General in a landslide.
1
Whether or not Trump descends to the definition of fascist is an interesting exercise, but what is now well-established is that the republican party has become a party of nationalism which is dangerous and un-American enough.
2
What is more worrying is that a lot of Mr. Trump's supporters will drift into Mr. Cruz's camp if The Donald's campaign falls apart. With regard to Mr. Cruz, he is so driven to become the Republican candidate that he will say and do anything to appeal to the extremists in the party, and there is no way to know if he actually believes any of his ridiculous statements.
2
The far right has intellectuals? Name one.
7
@Lou Good: He did name one, Ann Coulter. Gag. He seems to think that he is one, too.
2
It's real simple.
The GOP establishment is terrified...of winning the Presidential Election.
The GOP establishment is terrified...of winning the Presidential Election.
Oh, well, so long as he's just a "little fascistic" I guess no worries then. Thanks Ross, I feel much better.
6
Whatever he is whether Fascist, mountebank, blowhard, "huge" or "awesome", one thing he will never be is President.
2
Read Carl Jung's "The Undiscovered Self." Reading it you'll ask yourself, "When was this written? Last year, month, week, yesterday? We've been down this road before, history repeating itself with the same sad results... One popular definition of insanity. Which seems an appropriate word to define the direction of America, with the world following in her wake.
The possible end of an era that started in earnest with the first world war, the horror of which was Jung's muse for the book.
The possible end of an era that started in earnest with the first world war, the horror of which was Jung's muse for the book.
3
I've been saying to my friends for weeks that Trump is the love child of Moussolini and Mrs. Piggy: Fascist egotistical pig.
4
Labeling Trump a fascist might not help identify the drawbacks of fascism for US citizens who don't know what fascism is. Douthat quoting Eco is a good thing and I hope that people unfamiliar with fascism read this column.
You forgot to mention the integrated nature of Fascist economies and the corporate state. That is already a gimme.
2
Just yesterday a high school student asked me why he needs to study history. Trump is why.
6
Once again Mr. Douthat sets up a straw man to knock it down.
Trump is a lying racist bully. That should be more than enough
to disqualify him for any public office.
as far as the question he poses, if it walks and quacks like a duck
it's a damned duck.
As Jimmy Breslin noted when describing Mayor Giuliani,
Trump is a "man in search of a balcony."
Truth does not matter to him or his supporter.
He is today's GOP and he is them.
Grinder rests.
Trump is a lying racist bully. That should be more than enough
to disqualify him for any public office.
as far as the question he poses, if it walks and quacks like a duck
it's a damned duck.
As Jimmy Breslin noted when describing Mayor Giuliani,
Trump is a "man in search of a balcony."
Truth does not matter to him or his supporter.
He is today's GOP and he is them.
Grinder rests.
4
Mr Trump may or may not be a fascist, but his supporters certainly are.
3
The Times Op Ed page now resorts to mudslinging in order to try to make a political/ideological point in the advance of their political agenda? Really?
Trump reminds me of Napoloni, the leader of Bacteria, in Chaplin's movie "The Great Dictator," a send-up of Benito Mussolini. He's not a fascist but a buffoon.
1
Most of the Republicans are flirting with fascism. And, they have the nerve to call Bernie a socialist, while smirking. I wouldn't spit on any of them if they were on fire.
1
Panic may well be the wrong response but so is quaking in fear, which is how the mainstream Republican "leadership" has reacted to Trump, according to a recent Times story. They're all afraid to confront him because of what he might "say" about them. Good Lord what cowards! Are there no leaders left in this country?
2
Donald does have passion. I wish him well, as I am running for President too. The only way I can win (realistically on paper) is for Donald and Bernie to help people see how corrupt the Democrats and Republicans have become due to the Disease of Greed, that in November they will take a serious look at me.
Getting 900,000 Signatures for Ballot Access will take some miracles.
Merry Christmas,
Kyle
presidentkopitke2016.info
Getting 900,000 Signatures for Ballot Access will take some miracles.
Merry Christmas,
Kyle
presidentkopitke2016.info
He really is a combo Jimmy Swaggart, Rush Limbaugh, Richie Rich and Archie Bunker. Depressing.
All in all, looking at this particular NYT front page as a whole, - it might be the saddest one I have ever seen.
All in all, looking at this particular NYT front page as a whole, - it might be the saddest one I have ever seen.
2
"...the accurate sense that the American elite has misgoverned the country at home and abroad."
This is a ludicrous explanation for Trump's popularity.
How exactly has the country has been mismanaged since Obama became president? Remember the Great Recession? Eight years of a Republican president dragged our economy into a ditch. Since Bush left the White House, the deficit has gone down, employment has gone up. The Obama Administration turned the economy around.
Under our "elite" president, millions of people who had no health insurance are now insured.
On Obama's watch, there have been no major terrorist attacks in the U.S.
The greatest danger of being killed by violence in this country is still from U.S. citizens with guns. Who has kept reasonable gun control measures from being passed? Not our Democratic president and not Democrats in congress.
It's hard to say how the country should be "governed abroad" but none of the Republican candidates for president have suggested anything but more warfare, more bombing, more young Americans sent to die. Nothing that the U.S. government has done in the Middle East in the past 15 years has resulted in anything but more war, more chaos, more bloodshed, more civilians killed, and more hatred of the U.S.
Trump may not be a fascist, but the anti-factual bent of the Republican party has assisted in his rise.
There are many reasonable explanations for Trump's popularity. Misgovernment isn't one of them.
This is a ludicrous explanation for Trump's popularity.
How exactly has the country has been mismanaged since Obama became president? Remember the Great Recession? Eight years of a Republican president dragged our economy into a ditch. Since Bush left the White House, the deficit has gone down, employment has gone up. The Obama Administration turned the economy around.
Under our "elite" president, millions of people who had no health insurance are now insured.
On Obama's watch, there have been no major terrorist attacks in the U.S.
The greatest danger of being killed by violence in this country is still from U.S. citizens with guns. Who has kept reasonable gun control measures from being passed? Not our Democratic president and not Democrats in congress.
It's hard to say how the country should be "governed abroad" but none of the Republican candidates for president have suggested anything but more warfare, more bombing, more young Americans sent to die. Nothing that the U.S. government has done in the Middle East in the past 15 years has resulted in anything but more war, more chaos, more bloodshed, more civilians killed, and more hatred of the U.S.
Trump may not be a fascist, but the anti-factual bent of the Republican party has assisted in his rise.
There are many reasonable explanations for Trump's popularity. Misgovernment isn't one of them.
8
It is worrying enough if 20, 30% of Republicans are so eager to vote for a fascist. It is even more worrying when you see Trump supporters in the news - they all seem to be uneducated, simple folks looking for simple answers to their inchoate fears, and unable to apply any critical thinking - all they can do is shout "Trump! Trump!" incessantly.
My grandfather, who was serving his compulsory military service under Mussolini in 1936, recalled exactly the same thing - masses of ignorant, easily duped people shouting "to war! To war!" as the Duce was giving his bellicose speeches. My grandfather, a left-leaning pro-american was not duped, but he still ended up wasting 7 years of his life in a war he did not believe in, only to return home with the British army as a liberator and finding his country in ruins.
Be aware America, be aware.
My grandfather, who was serving his compulsory military service under Mussolini in 1936, recalled exactly the same thing - masses of ignorant, easily duped people shouting "to war! To war!" as the Duce was giving his bellicose speeches. My grandfather, a left-leaning pro-american was not duped, but he still ended up wasting 7 years of his life in a war he did not believe in, only to return home with the British army as a liberator and finding his country in ruins.
Be aware America, be aware.
2
You forgot one of Trumps biggest features - the hatred and contempt for caucasians. Trump has 5 times more insults, distain and contempt for white people than any other race. His call our leaders and politicians "stupid" and "incompetent" almost everyday and those folks are 80% white. He puts down and shows contempt for mass media daily and those for are 80% white. Trump is calling out the incompetence of people who can't call it out themselves - career politicians and the entrenched media. Both groups who spend their lives criticizing others but never themselves. Trump is not a fascist. He is simply a truth teller to the establishment unable to critique themselves.
1
Trump's supporters are unlikely to have read Umberto Eco, read his works or have the slightest interest in his list of fascist traits.
9
A quick Google search for "Obama fascist" suggests that “'fascism'” is not simply a quality "that liberals see lurking in every Republican president." The street runs both ways. This, in itself, is not so shocking, but it's a shame that Mr. Douthat felt the need to fall back on parenthetical partisanship when discussing what could (should) be an important issue. How we speak -- and identify, and recognize -- each other and our politics is important, not least of all in terms of how we align people and politics. In this, it's worth remembering Louisiana governor Huey Long's remark to the effect that for fascism to succeed in America, it must simply be called "anti-fascism."
4
Well, Mr. Douthat, you may split hairs about whether or not Trump qualifies for the appellation "Fascist," but it seems pretty academic to me. I agree with some of what you say about how it might be best to handle him, but there's little doubt Trump qualifies for a variety of descriptive terms, though Fascist could be one of them: he's a bloviating, "tremendous," loud, narcissistic, self-important. self-absorbed, bullying, "my-way-or-the-highway" bellower who is unbearably boorish, grating, grandiose, intellectually wanting, ill-suited for political leadership, and is nothing more than the scion of a wealthy father. Furthermore, it's not just the political leadership of the last 20 years that has produced this blot on our political landscape: it's the ever-increasing, ill-tempered, government-is-bad, oppositional rhetoric of the Republican party that has helped spawn this trumpish clown on the American people.
5
Re the lack of a mass populist (communist or fascist) movement in the U.S. in the 30s: Douthat mentions 'states rights', but not Jim Crow. We dodged the populist revolution because the working class was divided on race - the strategy was a compromise between Northern Demcratic liberals and conservative racist Democrats in the South. With blacks disfranchised and whites only too willing to participate. The game was invented in the 1890s, and we're still playing it today.
"Wallace was a noxious segregationist, but his racism was bound up in a local and regional chauvinism..."
George Wallace earned 10% of the vote in some pretty unlikely places:
10% michigan
10% Kansas
12% Ohio
10% New Jersey
White ethnics and working class voters in the North and Midwest, who would have voted Democrat even four years earlier, voted for Wallace. Enough to cost Humphrey the election. Yes, his ability to win states outright was regional, but his ability to skim off the white working class in the north validated the Silent Majority appeal as a national strategy for the Republican Party (The Willie Horton played in every market).
As for religion as an inoculation against fascism. Well, ask any Spaniard how that worked out in the 1930s. Franco was more than happy to take up the cause of the Falange and legitimate his dictatorship with Catholic ritual and clerical support.
There is no "recipe" of fascism, from Eco, Schmitt or Arendt. All the worst leaders started from scratch and worked with what they had.
Mr. Douthat has a highly selective eye and his historical interpretations, like his assessment of Eisenhower, are steeped in sins of omission.
George Wallace earned 10% of the vote in some pretty unlikely places:
10% michigan
10% Kansas
12% Ohio
10% New Jersey
White ethnics and working class voters in the North and Midwest, who would have voted Democrat even four years earlier, voted for Wallace. Enough to cost Humphrey the election. Yes, his ability to win states outright was regional, but his ability to skim off the white working class in the north validated the Silent Majority appeal as a national strategy for the Republican Party (The Willie Horton played in every market).
As for religion as an inoculation against fascism. Well, ask any Spaniard how that worked out in the 1930s. Franco was more than happy to take up the cause of the Falange and legitimate his dictatorship with Catholic ritual and clerical support.
There is no "recipe" of fascism, from Eco, Schmitt or Arendt. All the worst leaders started from scratch and worked with what they had.
Mr. Douthat has a highly selective eye and his historical interpretations, like his assessment of Eisenhower, are steeped in sins of omission.
Overall, I agree. What I've wondered is whether Trump emulates Fascism or is unaware of his tendencies. But there are two points where I disagree. First, the other Republican candidates are so weak that they can't start the Fascist name-calling. They are still afraid of Trump because so far, they've all lost the Twitter and TV battles. None of them yet has an alternative muscular enough to offer the voters.
The other point where I disagree with you is that thing about far right intellectuals and Ann Coulter. Is this the intellectual circle inhabited by the screaming talking heads
The other point where I disagree with you is that thing about far right intellectuals and Ann Coulter. Is this the intellectual circle inhabited by the screaming talking heads
Douthat seems to argue that Buchanan wasn't a fascist by Eco's criteria because he was a deeply religious man. Yet, Eco's criteria can easily be applied to identify the ultra-conservative religious-right movement on the whole as fascist. A previous commentor (Cagle) has very eloquently pointed out that the claims of Christianity by current Republican politicians (and other neocon leaders and commentors) are at odds with true Christianity. I agree that what I hear from these people is completely inconsistent with what I read in Jesus's words. The Bible even says that the Devil will come as a false prophet, twisting the Word to his own devices. Where are the mainstream religious leaders, and what are they doing or saying to counter this perversion of Christianity? Their silence is assent.
Wow, the NYT and Washington Post are ganging up on Mr. Trump this morning with similar fascist themes for which they believe fits Mr. Trump.
We all know that Mussolini is the pioneer of such demogogary. So this is not simply editorial snipping: it's a right cross to the chin.
Fortunately, we do have a checks and balance government; so any President can't get away with extremism, regardless what they preach. But those who cheer for such battles would surely get their wish -- chaos in the White House.
We all know that Mussolini is the pioneer of such demogogary. So this is not simply editorial snipping: it's a right cross to the chin.
Fortunately, we do have a checks and balance government; so any President can't get away with extremism, regardless what they preach. But those who cheer for such battles would surely get their wish -- chaos in the White House.
"But the absence of a real American fascism (as opposed to the “fascism” that liberals see lurking in every Republican president) is equally striking."
I believe the conservatives extremist were calling Obama a fascist for at least 4 years after he was elected. As a liberal, Trump is the first major candidate I would consider mentioning the term fascist. Your statement is way off base and makes you appear a closed-minded conservative. We have enough of those already.
I believe the conservatives extremist were calling Obama a fascist for at least 4 years after he was elected. As a liberal, Trump is the first major candidate I would consider mentioning the term fascist. Your statement is way off base and makes you appear a closed-minded conservative. We have enough of those already.
1
It’s time an advisor broke the bad news to Trump that there are Legislative and Judicial branches of our government, along with the Executive.
1
Labels are convenient but, particularly in the political context, sometimes distorting cognitive shortcuts that feed reactive devaluation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactive_devaluation (He/she is an X. Therefore, we do not need to engage with or think about what he/she is proposing or saying. We can dismiss/embrace it without further thought.)
Trying to label Donald Trump for this purpose is understandably tempting. But, as Douthat observes, our intellectual and political energy is misdirected if we focus it there.
The biggest domestic political challenge today is that of finding the solution to the underlying injustice that gives rise to the resentment, anger, and disaffection felt and expressed by a large and growing part of the population. Many of us have been shoved aside and no longer participate in the benefits of our economy, even though we help produce them. (See Barbara Ehrenreich, Nickled and Dimed in America.) It is that injustice that fuels strong men movements. Douthat rightly says that injustice is what we should be trying to eliminate. If all of us, regardless of party affiliation, unite around that goal, we will have nothing to fear from the likes of Donald Trump or others of his ilk. (Also, read Thomas Edsal's excellent piece yesterday on why Trump is popular with disaffected, insulted, and abused white working-class males.)
Trying to label Donald Trump for this purpose is understandably tempting. But, as Douthat observes, our intellectual and political energy is misdirected if we focus it there.
The biggest domestic political challenge today is that of finding the solution to the underlying injustice that gives rise to the resentment, anger, and disaffection felt and expressed by a large and growing part of the population. Many of us have been shoved aside and no longer participate in the benefits of our economy, even though we help produce them. (See Barbara Ehrenreich, Nickled and Dimed in America.) It is that injustice that fuels strong men movements. Douthat rightly says that injustice is what we should be trying to eliminate. If all of us, regardless of party affiliation, unite around that goal, we will have nothing to fear from the likes of Donald Trump or others of his ilk. (Also, read Thomas Edsal's excellent piece yesterday on why Trump is popular with disaffected, insulted, and abused white working-class males.)
Enduring wisdom: sow now, reap later. Replace reap with weep. Yet to come. Sadly.
Ann Coulter is an intellectual. Ha! That's a good one.
3
You say that Republicans are inoculated against him. I'm not sure if that is true or relevant. Republicans stood by quietly smiling for 7 years while Trump did his pro-wrestler takedowns of Obama's nationality, not seeing that he was anointing himself as their spokesperson. Now he owns them, doesn't he. Just like he could come to a town, see a casino he'd like to own, and then sit at the casino bar for weeks holding court until everybody comes to that casino to see him. He may or may not even need to buy the place at that point, what's the difference? He's like a small-time crook who moves into your business and slowly takes it over. He did an inside job takeover of the GOP, took over the supposedly smart businessman's political brand name without paying a penny for it. The ultimate Trump deal, stealing a political party right from under their noses before they knew what happened!
He could only do this because they gave him the idea. The way Republicans have treated this black president, to just oppose him on everything, no matter how stupid and ludicrous they might look to the rest of the world. And even the smart columnists like you, Ross, never picked up on this total moral failure of your political party. Anything goes! So Donald tried it out, let's see if I can say Obama is not American, what will happen, hey nothing nobody opposes me. I can be the boss of these people!
He could only do this because they gave him the idea. The way Republicans have treated this black president, to just oppose him on everything, no matter how stupid and ludicrous they might look to the rest of the world. And even the smart columnists like you, Ross, never picked up on this total moral failure of your political party. Anything goes! So Donald tried it out, let's see if I can say Obama is not American, what will happen, hey nothing nobody opposes me. I can be the boss of these people!
4
After yesterday's massacre, Trump will be polling at 40% by next week.
3
Best part of this column: calling Ann Coulter a Republican intellectual. That sums up the Republican disaster in a nutshell.
5
Ross Douthat states that the values of mainstream American conservatism tend to inoculate its adherents against fascism. But the only examples of American fascists he can mention are all hard-right conservatives like Pat Buchanan and George Wallace. Hmm.
2
First, of course he's an ideological conservative. Ross just doesn't hang out with many progressive liberals. Second, the proto-fascist label is just a distraction from the elephant in the Trump room. The extreme regression of a national predisposition to greed, bullying, misogyny, the denial of science and complete separation from nature are exactly what progressives have been battling for decades. Why is no-one willing to call him out on the bald-faced, hateful, unsustainable, ignorant worldview that he embodies? Because it is still a big part of our cultural identity; we're still not sure it's all that bad.
3
Douthat is disingenuous here. There comes a point when tolerating certain rhetoric breaks towards endorsing it, and Republicans have long crossed that line. Fascism "lurking" in the Republican party? Trump embodies easily recognizable fascist trends that are only checked by Democrats in Congress, by political finesse amongst his conservative peers and by a good portion of the public that's increasingly repulsed by Republican ideology.
His colorful proposals are substantially the same as those promoted by Republicans - whether a politician pronounces Mexican immigrants to be rapists (a tried and true appeal to our most virulent racists) or takes a more practical and genteel 'jobs' approach, the xenophobic impulse is consistent and clear.
His suggestion that a protester ought to be "roughed up" is quite in line with Fox's promotion of a semi-autonomous, militarized police force deployed against black protesters in our cities.
His followers - a familiar alliance of alienated, anti-authoritarian persons of prejudice and the moneyed interests that have always known how to flatter their fears and hatreds for a vote - are the same.
Religion? Religion ceased it's 'improving' function when the right wing turned it into a Republican club.
Libertarianism? Those Republicans aren't libertarians in any true sense of the word - they've just replaced governmental with corporate 'conscience'.
Trump is the Republican party, embarrassingly naked.
His colorful proposals are substantially the same as those promoted by Republicans - whether a politician pronounces Mexican immigrants to be rapists (a tried and true appeal to our most virulent racists) or takes a more practical and genteel 'jobs' approach, the xenophobic impulse is consistent and clear.
His suggestion that a protester ought to be "roughed up" is quite in line with Fox's promotion of a semi-autonomous, militarized police force deployed against black protesters in our cities.
His followers - a familiar alliance of alienated, anti-authoritarian persons of prejudice and the moneyed interests that have always known how to flatter their fears and hatreds for a vote - are the same.
Religion? Religion ceased it's 'improving' function when the right wing turned it into a Republican club.
Libertarianism? Those Republicans aren't libertarians in any true sense of the word - they've just replaced governmental with corporate 'conscience'.
Trump is the Republican party, embarrassingly naked.
5
Great article. I've told many a Trump supporter that should Trump win, their enthusiasm will quickly turn sour as they learn he couldn't or wouldn't accomplish his baseless promises and hyperbole.
Many don't understand that Trump's success lies with his privately-owned businesses where he's totally in control and accountable to no one but himself. Good luck doing that with the 535 members of Congress who have their own agendas. I visualize the political cartoon: Trump herding cats.
Many don't understand that Trump's success lies with his privately-owned businesses where he's totally in control and accountable to no one but himself. Good luck doing that with the 535 members of Congress who have their own agendas. I visualize the political cartoon: Trump herding cats.
Maybe Trump can make the trains run on time. The rest of the GOP seems to believe we don't need any damn trains because we have pickup trucks.
Fascism is what we already have. All forms of the fascist state have been imbedded, legalized, lionized and embraced. Trump is simply the face of fascism's effects on the people. They are in a state of shock, bewilderment, fear, shame and rage. Trump is the cathartic, vicarious tip of this spear. Many people internalize and idolize the hyper masculine archetype because they see it as their sole defense against annihilation. For them, to see their mythology as the source of their dehumanization would be to experience the humiliation of intimate betrayal, to discover how terror obliterates memory, and to realize that one has participated in their own exploitation in exchange for "special favors". Trump is the angry boy personified. He is protecting the hurt boy who is buried beneath its sneering epitaph of "Wimp!”. Trump's very name seems a mangled embodiment of fascism's effects: from trauma (wounding) to truncation (ignorance) to wimp (humanity denied). He, his followers and the architects of the system that spawned them appear incapable of embracing their inner wimp - the first stage of recovery.
Is Trump fascist? If so, not much more than, say, Scalia is. Somewhat different styles, otherwise … Trump is as true to Nixonian/Reaganite/Bushie substance as most GOP candidates.
Either Donald Trump is secretly working for the Democratic National Committee or he is, indeed, a proto-fascist. If it's the latter, he may not even really understand what he's doing. He doesn't need to build a "fascist mass movement", it's already there waiting for him. Ask yourself this: who will the Klan and Aryan Resistance members be voting for in their primaries?
1
The real fascists are on the college campuses..
1
I thought that for once, this is an illuminating column, in that it makes one think, and is not a bad analysis of fascism and why this country never went for it in a big time, whole-hog way. But I am surprised why the columnist never mentions another politician to whom Trump bears more than a passing resemblance : Silvio Berlusconi, who was as close a mainstream fascist politician as is possible to get in Italy, and shares many of Trumps failings, and, I would, add, went a long way in inflicting grievous damage to the Italian economy
Mr. Douthat, like many on the far right has most likely never read Plato. It was Platos' worry that a "TOWERING DESPOT" would inevitably rise in any Domocracy to exploit it's freedoms and seize power by fomenting fear of some group, and represent himself as the Protector Of The People against that fear.
Plato stated that Democracy was the most likely system to end in Tyranny.
It would appear that the majority of the Republicans running for the their Parties nomination are working hard to fulfill Platos description of Towering Despots.
That element of the electorate who support those nominees, obviously meet Einsteins description of what he described as the Common Sense that many of the supporters of the nominees for the Republican nomination for President where he called Common Sense by many is a result of the fears and prejudices that were embedded in their minds by the time they were 18 years of age! (Perhaps the fact that at best, they only possess a High School Education).
Plato stated that Democracy was the most likely system to end in Tyranny.
It would appear that the majority of the Republicans running for the their Parties nomination are working hard to fulfill Platos description of Towering Despots.
That element of the electorate who support those nominees, obviously meet Einsteins description of what he described as the Common Sense that many of the supporters of the nominees for the Republican nomination for President where he called Common Sense by many is a result of the fears and prejudices that were embedded in their minds by the time they were 18 years of age! (Perhaps the fact that at best, they only possess a High School Education).
Ann Coulter's an intellectual?
The real question is whether Trump is a real fascist or is just pretending to be one. The answer to the above, however, is likely to be meaningless. It all amounts to the same thing.
In a 1938 message to Congress, President Franklin D. Roosevelt called "fascists" those who would privatize the normal functions of government. Privatizing TSA, for example, is but example of fascism. The airports are our borders and it would therefore be expected of the government as one of its functions to secure the borders.
Turning everything government into a corporation for wealthy private interests is fascistic in every sense of the word and it is what President Roosevelt feared most. Russians also connote fascism with the corporation, a word that to this day carries a negative meaning in the Russian language.
Privatizing one man, one vote is nothing more than turning government into one man and however many shares of government said man owns. In a privatized world one has about a loud a voice in government as one has at a Wal-Mart shareholders meeting.
Turning everything government into a corporation for wealthy private interests is fascistic in every sense of the word and it is what President Roosevelt feared most. Russians also connote fascism with the corporation, a word that to this day carries a negative meaning in the Russian language.
Privatizing one man, one vote is nothing more than turning government into one man and however many shares of government said man owns. In a privatized world one has about a loud a voice in government as one has at a Wal-Mart shareholders meeting.
3
Trump may be egotistical, xenophobic and cruel, but the real fascist in the race is the diabolical liar Ted Cruz...conveniently left out of the equation by the author.
2
Ross Douthat needs a history lesson. Yes Pat Buchanan iis a nationalist. He is also a Catholic fascist type recognizable from the 1930s and 1940s, which is where is self declared childhood heroes, Franco and Mussolini, can be found
Always remember that Adolf Hitler came to power in a democratic election in 1933, in which he received only about a third of the popular vote. Germany's President Von Hindenberg then asked him to form a government, and the rest, as they say, is history. What really troubles me now is the unreason and denial of science, particularly climate science, that characterizes the Republican Party and its Presidential candidates. That same unreason and denial characterized the National Socialists during their ride in the 1920s and early 1930s, especially with regard to what they viewed as "Jewish science." I have always feared that if fascism were to take root in Amerca, it would emerge from the Republican Party. This seems to be happening today.o
1
liberals have always embraced some socialst elements. Publicly funded education, state universities, Meidicare, Social Security, VA health system, public roads, ports, airports, parks and national monuments open to all. All have elements of socialism to them. Socialist thinking says the public should be served regardless of "social rank" or accidents of birth that give us wealthy or not so wealthy parents.
conservatives have always embraced elements of fascism. Lengthy prison terms for drug addiction, using the state to force private personal health care decisions on people, especially women. State promotion of specific "correct" religions. Police infiltrating and disrupting social justice and protest organizations. Torture. Black site prisons. Suppression and criminalization of "immoraility," like homosexuality. State silencing dissent, preventing the "wrong" citizens from participating in basic democatic activities like voting. State suppression of wages and workers rights, suppression of unions, suppressing new industries that challenge the technologies of the past with whom conservatives have entrenched financial interests and quid pro quo support (think especially energy)
HOWEVER, Republicans face the stark, harsh, disturbing and dangerous truth that they are not just supporting some fascist ideas, but that the leader of their party is an actual extremist radical reactionary fascist demagogue. A clear and present danger. And they do not know what to do to stop him.
conservatives have always embraced elements of fascism. Lengthy prison terms for drug addiction, using the state to force private personal health care decisions on people, especially women. State promotion of specific "correct" religions. Police infiltrating and disrupting social justice and protest organizations. Torture. Black site prisons. Suppression and criminalization of "immoraility," like homosexuality. State silencing dissent, preventing the "wrong" citizens from participating in basic democatic activities like voting. State suppression of wages and workers rights, suppression of unions, suppressing new industries that challenge the technologies of the past with whom conservatives have entrenched financial interests and quid pro quo support (think especially energy)
HOWEVER, Republicans face the stark, harsh, disturbing and dangerous truth that they are not just supporting some fascist ideas, but that the leader of their party is an actual extremist radical reactionary fascist demagogue. A clear and present danger. And they do not know what to do to stop him.
3
Apparently to be considered a fascist, one should meet most of the basic points on that seven-point measurement. For Trumpet, it appears that if any points are not currently ascribed to him, he considers the judges to be liars and cowards. But, just to show his exceptualism, he is currently burning the ole midnight oil, in order to cover all bases.
In essence, he is trying harder to be ignorant, absurd and totally out-of-touch with reality. Perhaps the GOP is just toying with us. Maybe they are keeping him around in order to drive-up ratings for the debates. But un the long run, however, you must acknowledge that he has hardly stretch the RNC's Playbook. Prima Donald just blabbers it out more.
http://thetruthoncommonsense.com
In essence, he is trying harder to be ignorant, absurd and totally out-of-touch with reality. Perhaps the GOP is just toying with us. Maybe they are keeping him around in order to drive-up ratings for the debates. But un the long run, however, you must acknowledge that he has hardly stretch the RNC's Playbook. Prima Donald just blabbers it out more.
http://thetruthoncommonsense.com
I mostly don't read Douthat, but figured I'd give him a chance, since he was writing about fascism, which I don't fully understand. As usual, I regret my choice. This would have been a fine piece if Douthat had stuck to the topic, Trump and fascism. Why the gratuitous digs at liberals, and the puffing up of conservatives. This must be part of Douthat's schtick, but undermines his column. By the way, I have as much trouble with liberals who can't tell a straight story without gratuitous digs at conservatives.
2
I've written this a number of times and firmly believe it; Trump neither expects nor does he want to be President. His campaign is an amazingly efficient demonstration of ego and self promotion. Just imagine the books, the TV ratings and the position as a Super-Limbaugh when this is over.
What makes this whole thing disturbing to me, isn't the prospect of President Trump. I'm confident that probability is extremely low. But, what is rather frightening is the display of ignorance, bigotry and xenophobia of the Republican base.
What makes this whole thing disturbing to me, isn't the prospect of President Trump. I'm confident that probability is extremely low. But, what is rather frightening is the display of ignorance, bigotry and xenophobia of the Republican base.
In modern American political context, "fascist" typically connotes "authoritarian" and conjures up the jackboot.
That said, Eco's fascistic hallmarks describe Barack Obama to a T with the exception of the first two, action and masculinity; Obama is slothful and effete. The tricky part is understanding to which entity his intense nationalism, resentment at national humiliation, and “popular elitism” apply.
HIllary Clinton is also a fascist. Her fascistic, power-abusing impulses flourish when she is in a position of power. For this reason alone, Hillary Clinton must never, ever become president.
Her Laugh Factory threats the other day provide a glimpse into what a Hillary Clinton presidency would look like.
Caveat suffragator.
That said, Eco's fascistic hallmarks describe Barack Obama to a T with the exception of the first two, action and masculinity; Obama is slothful and effete. The tricky part is understanding to which entity his intense nationalism, resentment at national humiliation, and “popular elitism” apply.
HIllary Clinton is also a fascist. Her fascistic, power-abusing impulses flourish when she is in a position of power. For this reason alone, Hillary Clinton must never, ever become president.
Her Laugh Factory threats the other day provide a glimpse into what a Hillary Clinton presidency would look like.
Caveat suffragator.
The REAL question is: are we already living in a fascist state? If anything - I would say we are neo-fascist here and now. Mussolini's favored term for fascism was corporatism. We've been corporatist for quite some time. This isn't socialism, this isn't capitalism - this is neo-fascism. Many elements are already there. Seems to me that a majority of the general public is ignorant of it, willfully ignorant of it, or welcome it.
9
Trump is a racist and fascist, of course anyone who disagrees with the progressive agenda has to be such. (hence the choice of the photo, etc.)
Fascism is not confined to the right it is alive and well across Americas colleges and in the opinion section.
Fascism is not confined to the right it is alive and well across Americas colleges and in the opinion section.
Buchanan, who Ross Douthat seems to admire as "a deeply religious man," is a virulently anti-Semitic bigot who has made clear his admiration and support for fascist Nazis, including war criminals living in our country.
Trump, by contrast, is much more palatable with the "semi-professed Christianity" he uses "purely instrumentally" with "little time for the religious right’s causes."
Douthat's values are really twisted.
Trump, by contrast, is much more palatable with the "semi-professed Christianity" he uses "purely instrumentally" with "little time for the religious right’s causes."
Douthat's values are really twisted.
Is the purpose of this column to assert that liberals call most Republicans fascists? Certainly some anonymous internet commenters do. But have any liberals as prominent as Jonah Goldberg written a book accusing Republicans as such? In his best seller, Goldberg is the one who asserted that liberals are fascists.
What does it mean to be "a little fascistic"?
If Ross Douthat thinks that liberals today find "fascism" lurking in every conservative Presidential candidate, he must have been in a coma for the past thirty years or so. Today, it's conservatives like Jonah Goldberg and Glenn Beck who delight in flinging the "fascist" label at liberals both contemporary (Obama) and historic (Wilson). If the "fascism" label doesn't sting Trump's supporters anymore, it might be because they are conditioned by their media to thinking that only liberals can be fascists.
We should all remember, particularly the Republican establishment, that Hitler was elected democratically.
I would never vote for Trump, however I do appreciate having a politician who speaks his mind without relying on polls, advisers, or focus groups. What other candidate means what he (she) says? Hillary? Jeb? Ha! What other candidate do I know where he stands? This I believe is his appeal. I can see how a voter whose big toe was over the line into the Trump camp would consider going all in for him.
Ross, being a "little fascistic" is like being a "little pregnant".
3
" his lack of any real religious faith..."????
Writing that Douhat made his usual grave error of assuming that he is competent to make judgements about depth of other people's faith and spiritual lives. I am no Trump fan but I am an opponent of anyone who claims superior insight into the souls of others. It is not Douhat's place or competence to judge other people's faith lives.
Within the context of American politics to do so is reprehensible. Within the context of our Constitution, it is just wrong, There are no religious tests for public office in the USA. It's right there in Article VI and Douhat would do well
to study and understand the history which informed the writers.
Writing that Douhat made his usual grave error of assuming that he is competent to make judgements about depth of other people's faith and spiritual lives. I am no Trump fan but I am an opponent of anyone who claims superior insight into the souls of others. It is not Douhat's place or competence to judge other people's faith lives.
Within the context of American politics to do so is reprehensible. Within the context of our Constitution, it is just wrong, There are no religious tests for public office in the USA. It's right there in Article VI and Douhat would do well
to study and understand the history which informed the writers.
"They include: a cult of action, a celebration of aggressive masculinity, an intolerance of criticism, a fear of difference and outsiders, a pitch to the frustrations of the lower middle class, an intense nationalism and resentment at national humiliation, and a “popular elitism” that promises every citizen that they’re part of “the best people of the world.”'
We could easily fit the same criteria to the President. Masculinity--The real point is elevate gender as a power base, which obama does, except he aggressively pursues feminism. Fear of Outsiders: despite his rhetoric, he is intolerant of those that disagree with him. He is aloof and rarely interacts with people who think differently. He demonism..his constant name calling of republicans.Pitch to frustration so middle class..he knocks that ball out of the park with his demonization of wall street, oil, business, income ineuqality. Intense Nationalism. He is the most tribal president we have ever had and prejudiced against whites..beginning with comments on Trayvon Martin and on and on. He has extreme resentment of humiliation,evidenced by his positions on transgender, black lives matter, etc. And his popular elitism? Have we ever had such an elitist president..any who is so at home with misrepresenting facts to push his own agenda, whether health care, guns, trade, global warming? He is the most condesdending elitist president during my lifetime. He has all of the facists traits..directed left.
We could easily fit the same criteria to the President. Masculinity--The real point is elevate gender as a power base, which obama does, except he aggressively pursues feminism. Fear of Outsiders: despite his rhetoric, he is intolerant of those that disagree with him. He is aloof and rarely interacts with people who think differently. He demonism..his constant name calling of republicans.Pitch to frustration so middle class..he knocks that ball out of the park with his demonization of wall street, oil, business, income ineuqality. Intense Nationalism. He is the most tribal president we have ever had and prejudiced against whites..beginning with comments on Trayvon Martin and on and on. He has extreme resentment of humiliation,evidenced by his positions on transgender, black lives matter, etc. And his popular elitism? Have we ever had such an elitist president..any who is so at home with misrepresenting facts to push his own agenda, whether health care, guns, trade, global warming? He is the most condesdending elitist president during my lifetime. He has all of the facists traits..directed left.
Mr. Douthat claims that the religiousness of Republicans inoculates them against Fascism. That's absurd. The German and especially the Italian masses were at least as religious as Republicans are today. That did not prevent the rise of Hitler of Mussolini.
It is also worth noting that, even though Mr. Trump's Fascist leanings are apparent,Jeb Bush has stated that he would vote for him over Ms Clinton. That speaks volumes about him. Moreover, I suspect that he is not alone among Republicans or Republican candidates in holding that view.
It is also worth noting that, even though Mr. Trump's Fascist leanings are apparent,Jeb Bush has stated that he would vote for him over Ms Clinton. That speaks volumes about him. Moreover, I suspect that he is not alone among Republicans or Republican candidates in holding that view.
Trump is a bully and a buffoon. Look at that facial expression and gesture. Stop giving him so much free media coverage. Ignore him. He's not worth a bucket of warm spit.
1
I can well imagine the conversation between Douhat and the Republican Establishment operatives this last week. 'Your mission: do a hit piece on Trump; you're conservative, it will mean something.' So yes, Trump is delusional and has fascist tendencies. But the party ops don't give a whit about that -- they just want to defend their 1%. Douhat is just a pawn in the game. If a Republican candidate came along who represented their interests, they wouldn't care a bit if he was fascist. In fact they'd probably think of it as a very nice bonus.
1
Benito Mussolini was the founder of fascism and his definition does not seem to fit Donald Trump precisely. Nonetheless, a gentleman he is not. And that is the appeal of Mr. Trump. He represents a group of people intolerant of others; whom are likely to have regrets when they discover that he double crossed them. After all, a checks and balance government does have its barriers
What his followers must ask is will he double-cross them? I believe he will. After all, he is friends with Hillary and Bill Clinton.
What his followers must ask is will he double-cross them? I believe he will. After all, he is friends with Hillary and Bill Clinton.
After sixty-three years I know what a fascist looks like and it isn't Donald Trump. No, it is Ted Cruz.
4
The seven hallmarks of fascism:
"[A] cult of action, a celebration of aggressive masculinity, an intolerance of criticism, a fear of difference and outsiders, a pitch to the frustrations of the lower middle class, an intense nationalism and resentment at national humiliation, and a “popular elitism” that promises every citizen that they’re part of “the best people of the world.”'
Doesn't just apply to Donald Trump. These "hallmarks" apply equally to all of the current crop of GOP candidates. They rail against the elitism of people who have college educations, "Harvard Professors;" they revel in American exceptionalism; aggressive masculinity? They'll stare down Putin; Obama's a wimp. Intolerance of criticism? Take a look at how the Republican candidates responded to CNBC questions that were the slightest bit critical. Intense nationalism and resentment of national humiliation? Republicans rail against the "blame America crowd." Fear of difference and outsiders? Cue the chorus of outrage over immigration and accepting refugees; then gaze at Nixon's southern strategy -- a the glue that holds together the Republican coalition.
Sinclair Lewis was prescient when he wrote, "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." That pretty much sums up not just Donald Trump, but the Republican Party as a whole.
"[A] cult of action, a celebration of aggressive masculinity, an intolerance of criticism, a fear of difference and outsiders, a pitch to the frustrations of the lower middle class, an intense nationalism and resentment at national humiliation, and a “popular elitism” that promises every citizen that they’re part of “the best people of the world.”'
Doesn't just apply to Donald Trump. These "hallmarks" apply equally to all of the current crop of GOP candidates. They rail against the elitism of people who have college educations, "Harvard Professors;" they revel in American exceptionalism; aggressive masculinity? They'll stare down Putin; Obama's a wimp. Intolerance of criticism? Take a look at how the Republican candidates responded to CNBC questions that were the slightest bit critical. Intense nationalism and resentment of national humiliation? Republicans rail against the "blame America crowd." Fear of difference and outsiders? Cue the chorus of outrage over immigration and accepting refugees; then gaze at Nixon's southern strategy -- a the glue that holds together the Republican coalition.
Sinclair Lewis was prescient when he wrote, "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." That pretty much sums up not just Donald Trump, but the Republican Party as a whole.
The classic quandry: ignore Trump and hope he goes away, or confront him as soon as possible. History shows that by the time "intellectuals" like Mr. Douthat decide to confront Trump, Trump will have won the presidency, declared a state of emergency, suspended the Constitution, jailed the Supreme Court for treason, and declared himself President for Life.
Turning a blind eye towards evil never works. The first step towards defeating Trump is naming him for what he is: a monstrous fascist.
Never again.
Turning a blind eye towards evil never works. The first step towards defeating Trump is naming him for what he is: a monstrous fascist.
Never again.
1
American fascism is nourished by the current Republican ethos, in both the halls of congress and corporate boardrooms, but contrary to Ross Douthat, it is rooted in the soil of Christian fundamentalism. This movement began in the early 20th century with religious zealots (funded by oil millionaires) who saw nothing but evil in Darwin's theory of evolution and were determined to eradicate all traces of rational thought from American churches. Their message of Christian supremacy and intolerance has permeated conservative religious discourse for over a century. The political fundamentalism of the Tea Party grew from the missionary zeal of their religious predecessors.
Sadly, both Christian and Tea Party fundamentalists have abandoned ideals like compassion and justice in their drive for social domination. The result today is a perfect storm of ideological chaos in which authoritarian “leaders” vigorously compete for media attention, drowning out voices of reason and moderation.
Fascism is in the air we all are breathing. It may be that neither reason nor moderation can survive in today's political climate. We need compelling and sustained public presentations of our deepest ideals if we are to reestablish the foundation of American democracy and defeat the ideologues who threaten it.
Sadly, both Christian and Tea Party fundamentalists have abandoned ideals like compassion and justice in their drive for social domination. The result today is a perfect storm of ideological chaos in which authoritarian “leaders” vigorously compete for media attention, drowning out voices of reason and moderation.
Fascism is in the air we all are breathing. It may be that neither reason nor moderation can survive in today's political climate. We need compelling and sustained public presentations of our deepest ideals if we are to reestablish the foundation of American democracy and defeat the ideologues who threaten it.
1
I like the neat trick that turns conservatives who lean towards fascism a way out: local control, individual rights, and lack of paramilitary intervention. But come on, folks- this is still leaning towards fascism! And thank God there are liberals willing to call these people out.
Dont sidestep the (ahem) elephant in the room, Republicans! Trump does need to have the F-word (fascism) directed his way. He has earned it.
Dont sidestep the (ahem) elephant in the room, Republicans! Trump does need to have the F-word (fascism) directed his way. He has earned it.
Cruz appears to be the most calculating and sinister of all the candidates. He's riding the back of this Trump Tiger with his eye on the prize. Trump can turn out to be a light weight tool that is very effective in slinging an even more fascist Cruz into the role of "reasonable alternative" for a very gullible and dissatisfied angry electorate. Keep your eye on Cruz the man behind the Trump curtain. I usually avoid fear theories but this man really gives me the creeps especially with his ties to god and god loving evangelicals.
1
How does one write a line such as, "as opposed to the 'fascism' that liberals see lurking in every Republican president," without recognizing its intrinsic irony? In the space of one clause Douthout greatly over-generalizes in his criticism of liberals' tendency to greatly over-generalize.
3
"a libertarian skepticism of state power" - how I wish these imaginary people in Douthat's imaginary "American conservative tradition" were as skeptical of business interests as they are the State's.
Do 'conservatives' really favor raping the land with strip mining, or polluting the air with coal dust, or poisoning the water with petroleum run-off? I cannot believe any true 'conservative' would do so... yet the petrochemical industry has hoodwinked enough of the right into believing "regulations" by the State are the real issue to push through an energy agenda which would do just that.
Being beholden to petrochemical dollars, the electeds have their work cut out for them: more subsidies to the 19th Century and fewer to the 21st. But the voters don't have to take it - and any true 'conservative' knows that, at this point in history, the only people 'conserving' anything are those on the left end of the political spectrum.
Do 'conservatives' really favor raping the land with strip mining, or polluting the air with coal dust, or poisoning the water with petroleum run-off? I cannot believe any true 'conservative' would do so... yet the petrochemical industry has hoodwinked enough of the right into believing "regulations" by the State are the real issue to push through an energy agenda which would do just that.
Being beholden to petrochemical dollars, the electeds have their work cut out for them: more subsidies to the 19th Century and fewer to the 21st. But the voters don't have to take it - and any true 'conservative' knows that, at this point in history, the only people 'conserving' anything are those on the left end of the political spectrum.
3
Why are conservatives so obsessed with their image in terms of the words used to describe them? If you are a rugged individualist who needs only a strong back and legs and the sweat of one's brow to succeed, then what do you care how someone labels you.
Also, what else does Douthat do all day except finely weave a thread?
Also, what else does Douthat do all day except finely weave a thread?
1
I'm slightly left-of-center and therefore usually disagree with Douthat's prescriptions, but I always appreciate his analysis because, like that of David Brooks, it is always so well informed and thought out, so different from any of those running for president on the GOP side or those on talk-radio.
I really appreciate this article, especially his skill at showing the differences among Trump Buchanan, Perot and Wallace, and those fascist characteristics which Trump seems to show; any political scientist would benefit from considering it.
What I don't really understand is Douthat's very last sentence about not allowing Trump to have a "point." And what would he recommend if Trump wins one of the early primaries?
I really appreciate this article, especially his skill at showing the differences among Trump Buchanan, Perot and Wallace, and those fascist characteristics which Trump seems to show; any political scientist would benefit from considering it.
What I don't really understand is Douthat's very last sentence about not allowing Trump to have a "point." And what would he recommend if Trump wins one of the early primaries?
3
Not only would I not let Trump have a point, I wouldn't even let him have a _platform_.
I liked Eco's seven stigmata. Go into any small town watering hole in any red state, or, if you are homebound, tune into FOX News and, increasingly, CNN, and you will hear and see these hallmarks laid out in spades. Luckily, these folks are receding numerically into minority status, but they vote, and through that vote, control an appallingly large percentage of the levers of power. Scary stuff!
4
First, if you are proffering Coulter as an intellectual, then your party/movement is bankrupt. Second, if Trump is freaking out the party establishment, they need to look in the mirror--he's your poll leader for a reason. Third, well, I think the above is probably sufficient...
4
Trump may be the deftest of the contenders trying to surf the populist tsunami. The question is not whether HE's a fascist (I think more a carnival huckster who mind-reads people's inner wishes), but whether the people he attracts have a fascist mindset, how they got there and what it will take to bring them back from the edge.
2
What's more frightening than not-quite-fascist Trump is the fact that so many potential Republican voters are baying in his destructive wake, ready to light their torches and go after "those people." My fear is that there's fascist tinder lying all around us, and even if il Donald isn't sparky enough to ignite it, it's still there.
3
A more fundamental question is - is Donald auditioning to be a dictator (whether of the fascist type or any other)? Perhaps a new Huey Long?
The Republican Party seems to me to be the party of the oligarchs and follows that any Republican Party government would not support democratic ideals and policies (in republican President Lincoln's words, "of the people, by the people and for the people").
The Republican Party seems to me to be the party of the oligarchs and follows that any Republican Party government would not support democratic ideals and policies (in republican President Lincoln's words, "of the people, by the people and for the people").
1
I can think of a lot of names that would describe Mr. Trump. I doubt, however, he even knows what a fascist is -- unless he thought it might make him money or get him more votes.
There is a certain period of world history that is often referred to by Republican "rhetoricians." Covers the period from the Treaty of Versailles to, say, the early thirties. I'll only say this about Trump and his supporters: Shades of Weimar, and we even have our own version of the Freicorps but without the brown shirts. Of course for Trump they would have gold shirts.
1
The primary characteristics of fascism are strong opposition to capitalism or communism (preferring a "third path" of private ownership with government supervision), disapproval of "unproductive labor" like (supposedly) banking and investment, and strong government action in the interest of society and community (as opposed to individual choice and liberty). Umberto Eco's criteria are more secondary characteristics of leaders that tend to put this kind of government into place, but they are more associated with totalitarian leaders than specifically fascist ones.
So, does Trump have fascist tendencies? To some degree, yes, and that should worry us. However, just is disconcerting is that Bernie Sanders shows many of the same tendencies: his "socialism" also combines private ownership with strong government intervention and a disapproval of unproductive labor; and while Sanders' nationalism isn't racially based, he certainly supports the idea that limiting migration into the US somehow helps Americans by "protecting jobs".
I think the popularity of both Trump and Sanders is quite worrisome. It is also frustratingly unnecessary. European fascism arose out of abject poverty and economic failure. While Americans can legitimately claim that they haven't been served well by their governments and have seen insufficient progress over the last couple of decades, we are very wealthy and still doing well in comparison to the rest of the OECD.
So, does Trump have fascist tendencies? To some degree, yes, and that should worry us. However, just is disconcerting is that Bernie Sanders shows many of the same tendencies: his "socialism" also combines private ownership with strong government intervention and a disapproval of unproductive labor; and while Sanders' nationalism isn't racially based, he certainly supports the idea that limiting migration into the US somehow helps Americans by "protecting jobs".
I think the popularity of both Trump and Sanders is quite worrisome. It is also frustratingly unnecessary. European fascism arose out of abject poverty and economic failure. While Americans can legitimately claim that they haven't been served well by their governments and have seen insufficient progress over the last couple of decades, we are very wealthy and still doing well in comparison to the rest of the OECD.
I think it would have improved the article to acknowledge that George Wallace was a Democrat and to better correlate some of the abstract thought process with this fact.
Mr Douthat seems to be under the illusion that Hitler started right out sending people he didn't like to concentration camps and starving and brutalizing them to death.
Much like Global Climate Change it's the frog in the pot syndrome. Boil the water slowly enough and no one will notice until it's too late.
Much like Global Climate Change it's the frog in the pot syndrome. Boil the water slowly enough and no one will notice until it's too late.
6
I find Douthat's unrelenting harsh criticism of those who disagree with his ideology offensive but read his column in an effort to better understand his thinking. But I find his very light response to the potentially tragic consequences of Trump's language stunning. Such talk demands a clear direct denunciation. The risk of inaction/appeasement is too great. We have a growing increase in violence from those who are prone to act in concert with such thinking.
5
It is not so simple to call Trump as fascist and the problem disappears - America is at crossroads and trying to define its future. There are major shifts occurring very subtle way in the power structure and cultural influence - old Protestant moral theology is gradually weakening by the liberal ideas of sex, homosexuality, and multiculturalism. At the same time, the power is moving gradually from political to financial elites - and most of these elits are psychopaths. The common white people are confused and acting like the mass of Shekespherean drama - cheering the most obnoxious leaders. The final outcome of this poisonous churning can be lethal or can be glorious.
The only hope of this critical moment - till now, majority of the citizens are not in this churning without an anchor - the hope of American constitution is still the guiding light of many of us - equality, fraternity and pursue of happiness.
The only hope of this critical moment - till now, majority of the citizens are not in this churning without an anchor - the hope of American constitution is still the guiding light of many of us - equality, fraternity and pursue of happiness.
1
Search "The 14 Defining Characteristics of Fascism" also. As others have noted, it's a fairly accurate description of the "true conservative" movement in general, all the way from Michael Savage to the supposed "moderate" members.
Let's see: nationalism ("American exceptionalism"); scapegoating (where to begin?); disdain for intellectuals ("elites"), sexism (opposition to effective sex education, gays, etc.), and so on.
By the way, Trump's Deportation Army already exists. It's called Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) and it has extrajudicial powers anywhere within 100 miles of the nation's border, including seacoasts.
Let's see: nationalism ("American exceptionalism"); scapegoating (where to begin?); disdain for intellectuals ("elites"), sexism (opposition to effective sex education, gays, etc.), and so on.
By the way, Trump's Deportation Army already exists. It's called Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) and it has extrajudicial powers anywhere within 100 miles of the nation's border, including seacoasts.
1
He represents the worst of America. The way that (unfortunately) many people in this country see foreigners. Imagine having him as the POTUS: the rest of the world will hate and try to isolate us. Scary...
1
Discussions about fascism often become mired in how broadly or how narrowly the term should be used. Instead, I propose we ask what is bad about fascism? I say fascism is bad because: 1. it is anti-democratic 2. it is rascist and xenophobic 3. it excercises hawklike, imperialist foreign policy.
If in the US, established power can be all these things without goose-stepping down main street, what does it matter if we call it fascist or not?
If in the US, established power can be all these things without goose-stepping down main street, what does it matter if we call it fascist or not?
2
Trump's verbiage is the ongoing equivalent of Mitt Romney's 47% speech to investors. People say they like him because he says what he thinks. His problem with mainstream Republicans is that he is revealing what THEY think. Just about everything Trump says can be found in the other candidates positions. The religiosity of the other candidates could certainly be challenged by how their proclaimed beliefs are lived out in their daily lives and positions on social issues. "Feed my sheep, blessed are the merciful, love you neighbor, turn the other cheek.....
2
"The best way to stop a proto-fascist, in the long run, is not to scream 'Hitler!' on a crowded debate stage. It’s to make sure that he never has a point."
But Ross, that's where it gets dicey. Conservatives will always have a Trump or Trump-like candidate or two, because there will, for the foreseeable future, be a large portion of the Republican electorate who lives on fantasy and fact avoidance. Trump is like P.T. Barnum; he needs a gullible public in order to sell his political scam, and he has willing audience in your named " blue-collar, lower middle class" voters. It would seem the Republican Party's goal should be to educate voters, but if they are able to accomplish that they will actually lose votes. Fox News, hate-radio, and conservative columnists have been inculcating low-information voters with untruths, fear, and anger for years, and now the Republican Party is paying the price. Unfortunately, we all have to pay for your mistakes now. So much for your "point."
But Ross, that's where it gets dicey. Conservatives will always have a Trump or Trump-like candidate or two, because there will, for the foreseeable future, be a large portion of the Republican electorate who lives on fantasy and fact avoidance. Trump is like P.T. Barnum; he needs a gullible public in order to sell his political scam, and he has willing audience in your named " blue-collar, lower middle class" voters. It would seem the Republican Party's goal should be to educate voters, but if they are able to accomplish that they will actually lose votes. Fox News, hate-radio, and conservative columnists have been inculcating low-information voters with untruths, fear, and anger for years, and now the Republican Party is paying the price. Unfortunately, we all have to pay for your mistakes now. So much for your "point."
4
What Douthat fails to acknowledge is that despite his straw man description of liberals, Trump's sloppy and fascistic views wouldn't have gained traction in the modern Democratic Party.
Instead, his bully-boy platform — as illogical and hateful as it is — found a comfy home within the Republican Party. And that's a disturbing development that Douthat dances around, pretending that the GOP does have an intellectual and moral core.
For all its current populist rhetoric the GOP (and Trump) are really servants of the rich.
Instead, his bully-boy platform — as illogical and hateful as it is — found a comfy home within the Republican Party. And that's a disturbing development that Douthat dances around, pretending that the GOP does have an intellectual and moral core.
For all its current populist rhetoric the GOP (and Trump) are really servants of the rich.
8
Trump has become the voice of all these angry people in America. The ones that don't like the idea of having an African-American president and don't like this country becoming pluralistic. It's unsettling that at his rally while someone was getting kicked and punched he didn't discourage it. The Republican message of anger for the past few years has come back to bite them.
4
Mr. Douthat is giving the party too much credit by assessing Trump as some weird anomaly. For decades, the Republican Party has been exploiting racial division and religious bigotry, but in a nuanced way so as to maintain the interest of mainstream moderate voters. Trump is simply doing the same thing, but with no nuance.
3
'Fascism" has a lot of meanings. Many of the characteristics we assign to fascism today were also characteristics of Stalin's brand of communism. Yet fascism and communism are polar opposites in a lot of ways. They are alike in that both are totalitarian, that is, they exalt the supremacy of state over all else.
The USA is rapidly evolving into a totalitarian state: torture, PATRIOT Acts, universal surveillance, the Utah mass data storage facility for data gathered to be used later against nonconformists, militarization of local police forces, state rejection of scientific fact for political/corporate gain.
So the USA is clearly evolving into a totalitarian state, but will it be a fascist totalitarian state? I think it is. The type of fascism that most fits the USA today is captured in a quote often attributed to Mussolini: 'the perfect merger of corporation and state'.
Mr. Trump isn't responsible for our turn to the dark side. We did it ourselves. Trump is just taking advantage of it.
The USA is rapidly evolving into a totalitarian state: torture, PATRIOT Acts, universal surveillance, the Utah mass data storage facility for data gathered to be used later against nonconformists, militarization of local police forces, state rejection of scientific fact for political/corporate gain.
So the USA is clearly evolving into a totalitarian state, but will it be a fascist totalitarian state? I think it is. The type of fascism that most fits the USA today is captured in a quote often attributed to Mussolini: 'the perfect merger of corporation and state'.
Mr. Trump isn't responsible for our turn to the dark side. We did it ourselves. Trump is just taking advantage of it.
5
If Trump is not a fascist, he uses the tools fascists used in the 20th century to gain power in troubled democracies. Those include stirring ethnic hatred by portraying a particular race as a mortal threat too the country, encouraging violence buy his supporters,playing on people's fears of economic and imminent ruin, and outright lying. Using these tools they manipulated democracies into becoming totalitarian states. (Communists on the other hand, while no more honest, usually eschewed any veneer of democratic process while climbing to the top, resorting instead to the gun and assassination.) I have no confidence that if he was elected he would feel at all constrained by law— a man with such reckless disregard for the consdeuqences of his actions and the truth cannot be trusted with anything.
2
Trump is in the same category we see taking power and attraction in Europe. Le Pen in France. SD in Sweden. Berlusconi in Italy, etc. The correct way to describe the phenomenon is to call it "New-Fascism".
1
Who needs brown shirts when you have twitter? No need to trample opposing views with boots when you have tweets (and the evening news and the NYT) to spread the impression of a rising tide of hateful opinion.
Eco's definition is outdated. The Donald is inventing a new form. Let's call it I-Fascism. Dictatorship and central control come after the fascists assume power.
Eco's definition is outdated. The Donald is inventing a new form. Let's call it I-Fascism. Dictatorship and central control come after the fascists assume power.
3
Trump is probably just a silly footnote, God willing. But history shows that we disregard these red flags at our peril.
1
"The deep disaffection with the Republican Party’s economic policies among working-class conservatives?"
At the end of the day Republicans can't have it both ways. They worship corporate wealth, prestige and product so they're OK with letting corporations play tax games, buy political influence, offshore jobs and get away with paying low wages even as executive compensation hits new levels of extravagance. But that has consequences. It's not just the fault of Washington's amorphous "elites," or "liberals" or "big government." The GOP and its base of angry white people better take a good look in the mirror and decide if they want to get serious about dealing with 21st century realities ... or party on like it's 1899.
At the end of the day Republicans can't have it both ways. They worship corporate wealth, prestige and product so they're OK with letting corporations play tax games, buy political influence, offshore jobs and get away with paying low wages even as executive compensation hits new levels of extravagance. But that has consequences. It's not just the fault of Washington's amorphous "elites," or "liberals" or "big government." The GOP and its base of angry white people better take a good look in the mirror and decide if they want to get serious about dealing with 21st century realities ... or party on like it's 1899.
4
A good start, Ross, but you soft pedaled the main driver of Trump's popularity. It's not those legitimate reasons you cite, like economic distress and insecurity and "reasonable skepticism" about immigration. Rather, Trump embodies visceral hatred for his opposite, the cool and intellectually inclined and black Barack Obama. He flogged the conspiracy theories about the President's birth and has incited contempt for him every chance he gets. This seething, race based hostility of his is what his supporters love. Please don't describe them as thoughtful and just-worried-with-good-reason lunch bucket conservatives.
3
All of the climate-change denying Republicans are fascists, per Mussolini's definition: "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism, since it is the merger of state and corporate power." Their lie is entirely for the purpose of putting the state to the service of oil and coal corporations. And if they gain the presidency for this purpose, the long term result will be the deaths of far more people than were in any way touched by World War II.
1
A useful, more general definition of fascist is a person who like to order others around. This definition allows for leftwing fascists (e.g. communists). If politicians have public support for such policies they are democratic fascists, if not, they are outright fascists.
Alcohol supremacist bigots used to be democratic fascists, now medical marijuana prohibitionists have become outright fascists defying overwhelming public opinion as well as their pledge of liberty and justice for all, and common decency. In many states they are defying strong public opinion on recreational marijuana as well. The universal refusal of alcohol supremacists to have a full and honest discussion about cannabis and cannabis vs. alcohol is certainly typical of fascists as well.
Alcohol supremacist bigots used to be democratic fascists, now medical marijuana prohibitionists have become outright fascists defying overwhelming public opinion as well as their pledge of liberty and justice for all, and common decency. In many states they are defying strong public opinion on recreational marijuana as well. The universal refusal of alcohol supremacists to have a full and honest discussion about cannabis and cannabis vs. alcohol is certainly typical of fascists as well.
"It’s to make sure that he never has a point." I think you're too late here, Ross but it's always interesting to see what the Franco wing of the Catholic Church is thinking.
As an aside, if Anne Coulter is an intellectual then I've been mistaken as to what that word means.
As an aside, if Anne Coulter is an intellectual then I've been mistaken as to what that word means.
1
Douthat: "But the absence of a real American fascism (as opposed to the “fascism” that liberals see lurking in every Republican president) is equally striking."
Right-wing projection, or blame-shifting, knows no bounds. Douthat finds liberals are at fault for claiming "fascism" where none exists. But the single most prominent example of using the "fascism" smear in recent years is "Liberal Fascism," the best-selling book by conservative writer Jonah Goldberg. Right-wingers such as Ann Coulter (hardly an intellectual, Ross) and Brent Bozell frequently label liberals and liberal causes as "fascism." Maybe Douthat should be talking to his fellow conservatives about the "absence of a real American fascism."
Right-wing projection, or blame-shifting, knows no bounds. Douthat finds liberals are at fault for claiming "fascism" where none exists. But the single most prominent example of using the "fascism" smear in recent years is "Liberal Fascism," the best-selling book by conservative writer Jonah Goldberg. Right-wingers such as Ann Coulter (hardly an intellectual, Ross) and Brent Bozell frequently label liberals and liberal causes as "fascism." Maybe Douthat should be talking to his fellow conservatives about the "absence of a real American fascism."
1
Well I've read Eco and I'm still going to stick with the belief that he is describing every republican. But never mind that, from what I can tell Mr. Douthat is indeed confirming the liberal narrative that republicans secretly have fascist leanings. Isn't the Donald's big draw that he is finally saying what all these people have been thinking all along. And does Mr. D. Really want to brag about how Trump's toxic message "only" appeals to 30 or so percent of the party - not the 50% he will need to get the nomination. So at least one third of republicans want a leader with fascist characteristics. Doesn't really make me feel better.
No, I see this entire op-Ed as really, really scary. Just another Thursday column about the crumbling of our great democracy and the rabid, cruel, ignorant and racist GOP- one of two parties we get to choose from to elect our do nothing leaders while the one percent run the country.
What's strange to me is why Trump would want to be president in the first place. After all he and about 150 of his fellow billionaires are already running the country anyway. I'm speculating that he thinks air force one is a lot cooler than anything he could buy for himself.
No, I see this entire op-Ed as really, really scary. Just another Thursday column about the crumbling of our great democracy and the rabid, cruel, ignorant and racist GOP- one of two parties we get to choose from to elect our do nothing leaders while the one percent run the country.
What's strange to me is why Trump would want to be president in the first place. After all he and about 150 of his fellow billionaires are already running the country anyway. I'm speculating that he thinks air force one is a lot cooler than anything he could buy for himself.
3
I'm a Black attorney in Washington DC, and I agree with Donald Trump. On everything I've heard him say. The "Black Lives Matter" protester did deserve to get roughed up, if you watched the video, the guy was spoiling for a fight, refused to leave when asked kindly on at least nine occasions I counted, and then when he was being escorted out, the BLM protester began getting physical with event security and belligerent with people who were at the rally to see THEIR candidate.
That wasn't a protest. That wasn't a statement, it was a spectacle from a rotund guy seeking 15 mins of fame, not social justice or equality.
It is offensive to me as a Black man when White liberals and in Ross' case some Conservatives treat my race that way. George W. Bush oddly said it best when he spoke of the "soft bigotry of low expectations." The heckler wasn't born in the wild, and he wasn't a 3 year old high on Halloween candy. It is about personal responsibility Ross, and that heckler displayed none.
That wasn't a protest. That wasn't a statement, it was a spectacle from a rotund guy seeking 15 mins of fame, not social justice or equality.
It is offensive to me as a Black man when White liberals and in Ross' case some Conservatives treat my race that way. George W. Bush oddly said it best when he spoke of the "soft bigotry of low expectations." The heckler wasn't born in the wild, and he wasn't a 3 year old high on Halloween candy. It is about personal responsibility Ross, and that heckler displayed none.
1
Trump has no ideological base. It's just me, myself and I, a symbol of American individualism.
If the GOP only had one fascist among its top tier of candidates for president I would be less concerned. The problem is that it has two, Trump and Cruz, and two others, Carson and Fiorina, whose followers are sufficiently receptive to fascism's appeal that it is quite plausible that one of the fascists could claim the nomination. Cruz's star is rising and he may well reap the harvest that Trump has sown. And Cruz's very existence debunks Douthat's specious notion that religiosity or adherence to libertarian economic doctrines constitute an inoculation against fascism.
2
It truly saddens me to witness that a Donald Trump could enjoy even 25% of the GOPs support. Trump is a belligerent bigot who is feeding on a portion of the electorate that is basically a bunch of mental midgets. Our nations greatest need is to educate our citizenry and have them understand what made us the land of the free and home of the brave that was ever progressing toward a greater future. The GOP cuts education budgets the minute they win governorships because they know that an uneducated electorate is easily controlled. Toss some fear mongering at them and watch them line up and pull the lever for the false prophets who claim they can eliminate there fears by torturing our enemies and killing their families. Truth is being Hitler causes the enemies to form great coalitions and defeat you and your followers Mr. Trump. You are a great recruiting tool for ISIS on your best days. Luckily I am still certain that a majority of us albeit mostly on the coasts is too smart to allow you near the White House. OBAMANOS!
I don't see that labeling Trump serves any useful purpose. Trump (and Carson and Cruz) is a product of Fox News and talk radio and their yahoo followers. This has been going on for a long time. Add also the very deficient educational system in a large part of the country where politicians get to determine what is in our history and civics text books. Then add the Koch brothers who have poured hundreds of millions into state politics. Quite a potent brew.
1
The 'fear-of-others' lurks beneath the psyche of many everyday folk - fueled by very real, ongoing international and domestic events.
Trump skilfully taps into that fear using (apparently) off-the-cuff and memorably outrageous statements which pander to inner sentiments some feel aren't being expressed by other politicians.
So even though (technically) he may not be a fascist, his chosen rhetoric will leave him open to such accusations.
Still, as early polls suggest, his supporters like rhetoric precisely because he does articulate their communal fear, anger and outrage.
Then again, isn't the whole point of leadership that it ought not to resemble a personal stream of consciousness?
Ought not leaders remind us that pursuing our chosen ideals and aspirations is bloody hard work, and requires a much greater range of responses than table thumping, wall building or endless demands for an apology?
Hopefully, free world leaders are 'leaders' precisely because they don't always mirror our instinctive responses of anger, fear or hatred. They should remind us of something better than ourselves...something forward-facing, more worthwhile, yet achievable.
Are we hearing that form GOP candidates? Probably not.
Trump skilfully taps into that fear using (apparently) off-the-cuff and memorably outrageous statements which pander to inner sentiments some feel aren't being expressed by other politicians.
So even though (technically) he may not be a fascist, his chosen rhetoric will leave him open to such accusations.
Still, as early polls suggest, his supporters like rhetoric precisely because he does articulate their communal fear, anger and outrage.
Then again, isn't the whole point of leadership that it ought not to resemble a personal stream of consciousness?
Ought not leaders remind us that pursuing our chosen ideals and aspirations is bloody hard work, and requires a much greater range of responses than table thumping, wall building or endless demands for an apology?
Hopefully, free world leaders are 'leaders' precisely because they don't always mirror our instinctive responses of anger, fear or hatred. They should remind us of something better than ourselves...something forward-facing, more worthwhile, yet achievable.
Are we hearing that form GOP candidates? Probably not.
When we ask so little of our leaders, that's what we get.
America did not have true fascism, but it didn't really have a serious, large scale communist movement either. There was no reason for fascism to emerge in the U.S., as there was no widespread fear of a strong left wing movement here. Fascism spread in Europe in the years after WWI and the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia, when political movements tended to polarize between the left and right wing movements, communists and anti-communists (fascists). A very intelligent discussion of fascism is found in chapter 5 of "Thinking the 20th Century" (Tony Judt with Timothy Snyder). The main reason I have a hard time thinking of Trump as a fascist is that true fascists are resentful of wealth and power. While this describes many of Trump's adherents, it certainly doesn't describe Trump himself. He identifies with wealth and power. While America never had a fascist movement, it did have the KKK (championed by Woodrow Wilson, among others), virulent anti-immigrant attitudes, internment camps for Japanese during World War II, and an administration that did not think it wise to emphasize evidence for the holocaust during Word War II, or to take any steps against the infra structure of the concentration and death camps, lest this lead to anti-war sentiment among a population where anti Semitic attitudes were widespread. Also, of course, the U.S. had McCarthyism and the red scare, and in Hollywood, the black list,.
For once I agree with most of the points of Ross Douthat. But I have to take minor exception to one: "particularly Protestant emphasis on the conscience of an individual over the power of the collective". 1930's Germany was a Protestant country. The reformation started there. No particular religious denomination can inoculate all the faithful from the worst of human nature.
1
Douthat: If you have to ask then you already know the answer. Identifying Republicans as fascists is not some liberal exaggerations but a real threat by Republicans and their white supporters. You only need to listen closely to what the Republican candidates are saying. Their racism, bigotry, religious extremism, anti-science, and misogynistic rhetoric has become common place.
3
Maybe white working class folks will begin to wake up now, and return to the Democratic fold. They are being exploited by a few extremely wealthy people who are fools themselves and in danger of reaping the whirlwind.
1
He basically believes in a Corporate State with the wealthy hardly paying any taxes. water boarding, the end of Obamacare, A New wall with the exporting of 12 million immigrants, no estate tax, lower capital gains tax, the non recognition of minority rights, and the ability to default on all debt owed by USA, if he is not pleased in trade accommodations. The problem with electing Trump is that no one really knows if he is acting , or if he is aware of what attracts the electorate to his favor, or if he has motives which are not clearly defined. He will make secret deals that will make his family billions, that is 100% accurate. About 33% of the Republican voters are closed minded, and react to slogans that have no sense of equality. so he automatically gets their vote. They are the White Southerner vote. He lacks popularity with liberal women however many older women are finding him attractive. Unless Hillary Clinton starts getting more excited, he is currently tied with her as of today. Inside information about Trump will be released in the next few months, and I predict he runs in an independent party after getting booted by the Republicans. The fake TV show has led to his popularity for many of the population have a very short term memory. Looking forward to his anti-semitic comments which will slip from his lips, which he will later say was not what he meant. Israel under fascist Netanyahu likes him. If terrorist attacks continue to happen, Trump will get more popular.
1
Why do we always seem to need to label others? To me, it seems to stem from a motivation to demonize people we disagree with. That said, whether Trump can appropriately be labeled a fascist is interesting, to be sure, but isn't so much the point. Whether he can control the impulses in others that he unleashes is far more important and far more dangerous. I suspect that those who thrive on the bloody red meat Trump throws them would, in a New York minute, surely turn him into political hamburger if he toned it down in an attempt to pander to the broader base of the general electorate he would need to be elected.
Given Trump's predisposition toward an autocratic style---he owns a private company where he has absolute control over his employees--it seems doubtful that he could easily adjust to the fundamental principles of American democracy. There is, after all, a difference between political leadership and responsible governing, and if his inflammatory rhetorical excesses are any indication of how he would govern, he seems ill suited for the role of President of the United States, fascist or otherwise.
Given Trump's predisposition toward an autocratic style---he owns a private company where he has absolute control over his employees--it seems doubtful that he could easily adjust to the fundamental principles of American democracy. There is, after all, a difference between political leadership and responsible governing, and if his inflammatory rhetorical excesses are any indication of how he would govern, he seems ill suited for the role of President of the United States, fascist or otherwise.
2
As with most dictators, Trump himself has no idea what in what political camp his "ideas" place him. Ross is correct it's most likely the fascist dugout. If fully analyzed and placed within the political spectrum, Trump would find himself sitting next to Idi Amin.
1
The Republican establishment has decided it's time to cut Trump off at the knees. That's fine with me, but it's not because they feel Trump is a fascist. It's because they don't think he can win a general election.
2
I think that the label Fascist is way over the top when applied to Trump, and I'm a Democrat. The primary belief of Fascism is that government and corporations are a partnership that overrides everything else. Some of the characteristic are belief in your country's exceptionalism, and a readiness to go to war against nations that are an inconvenience. If you look at Clinton, she is an extreme hawk, her main backers are Wall St, and she talks exceptionalism along with most of the rest of the political crowd. I would give her a slightly higher rating than Trump on the Fascist scale.
1
Umberto Eco perfectly describes conservatism in America today.
3
The columnist's "explanations" of the desires of "working class Republicans" only underscores the fascist leaning desires of that party's populist "base." But then, this paper now has a columnist who can say Trump may be "a little fascistic" but that's well, you know, understandable, and the tendency may "have a point." And there's your Mr. Douthat.
1
RD should know better than to even consider such rubbish, to raise the question whether DT is a fascist. Fascism is a system of ideas--the suffix, "ism ' denotes "system," which arose after the Great War in Italy and then northern Europe as a reaction to communism, to the weaknesses of democratic governments to satisfy public demands, and to defend interests of lower middle class tradesmen, farmers and shopkeepers. Thus, it was anti modernity. Fascists preached a strong, militaristic foreign policy, and social justice on the home front.Without threat posed by international communism, we never would have witnessed the rise of either Hitler or Mussolini. DT is not a fascist, because the conditions necessary for the rise of fascism r not there. It is a word used irresponsibly today by those who want to silence their opponents. In the 1960's, if ur father told you to get a haircut, and u didn't want to, you called him a fascist. Knew fascists in the OAS, JJ Susini for ex., who maintained that fascism and communism were the most dominant themes of the 20th century. DT is no fascist, simply the "vox populi,"of millions of Americans who r suffering and seek a spokesman.
1
The libertarian skepticism about state power and focus on states' rights and localism that this article mentions in fact do jibe with fascism, which while expressing several common themes has historically taken on various elements of the cultures in which its various flavored reside.
"States' rights" has been a rallying cry for racists and bigots since the era of slavery. Localism has been about things like enforcing prayer in public schools. And libertarian skepticism toward state power is not about personal freedom or leaving people alone, but about letting businesses ignore things like codes, workers' rights and anti-discrimination laws. Indeed, all the elements that Douthat cites as keeping fascism out of America are designed to keep rich people rich and enforce white, male, heterosexual, Christian supremacy.
"States' rights" has been a rallying cry for racists and bigots since the era of slavery. Localism has been about things like enforcing prayer in public schools. And libertarian skepticism toward state power is not about personal freedom or leaving people alone, but about letting businesses ignore things like codes, workers' rights and anti-discrimination laws. Indeed, all the elements that Douthat cites as keeping fascism out of America are designed to keep rich people rich and enforce white, male, heterosexual, Christian supremacy.
It isn't Trump's demagoguery that scares me. It's the reactions of the hordes who lap up his garbage and, presumably, would act on his ideas if he were elected who scare the bejeebus out of me. I hope not to live long enough to hear the words "good American" and "I was just following orders" from the lips of Americans.
1
Yes, Ross, yes he is. Donald wouldn't call himself that, but bullies rarely see themselves for what they are. You should know.
Douthat argues that Christian GOP candidates are somehow inoculated against fascism by their faith. Hmm. Note that Ted Cruz recently shared a stage with Kevin Swanson, the pastor who advocates mass execution of US gay citizens. Maybe that's not definitively "fascist," but it's ugly. I've received mailings from far-right, grassroots Christian organizations, intended for my father, redirected to me. They link Christianity to defense of the military, and denounce Obama as an anti-Christian-soldier atheist (a Muslim). Here’s a sampling of quotes from the envelopes: Christians Reviving America's ValuEs (C.R.A.V.E.) ("Why did the Obama Administration send a radical Muslim Cleric to the funeral of Christian Navy Seals to preach hatred of Christianity??"). Traditional Values Coalition ("7 Million Citizens Petition to STOP Obama's military war on Christians."). CRU (Campus Crusade for Christ) ("Our Troops are Fighting for You but Many are Not Spiritually Equipped" and "They Made me Burn my Only Bible"). Doug Collins, US House Rep, Georgia ("Find out who is attacking our soldiers for believing in Christ."). God's Word to the Nations Mission Society ("The Obama Administration is punishing Christian soldiers and chaplains who share this book." Arrow points to the Book of John, New Testament). The Liberty Institute ("New Hope for American Soldiers Slammed by Obama's Attacks on Those of Faith"). Sorry I lost the letter from Alan Keyes describing Obama as "the son of an atheist mother."
3
The people of 1920's and 30's Europe didn't care what "ism" was running the country, they simply wanted jobs, bread on the table, and self-respect. Donald Trump is out our only hope. NOT HILLARY. She represents a continued neutering of America, curbs on freedom of speech, editing of offensive Bible passages, re-education centers, and in general a country not fit for traditional families. I only hope the Trump revolution goes after the leadership of this country, much like the Reign of Death in France did just that.
The scary thing is that many voters are ready to go for fascism. I used to wonder how Germany had gone the way it went in the 1930s. Clearly, it was not just one madman; clearly there was popular support for his ideas, at least at first. I never thought I'd see it firsthand in the US.
3
"bipartisan consensus favoring ever more mass low-skilled immigration"
Perhaps if the Republicans hadn't waged a war on knowledge and education, mass low-skilled immigration wouldn't be the problem it is. When President Obama said that every young person should have at least 2 years of college or community college to compete in a modern world, Rick Santorum called him "a snob" with remarkable disdain.
The Republicans in Michigan have discovered many ways to squeeze the money out of programs that might help lower income individuals learn the skills to succeed in a technical world. I suspect it is the same in all Republican-dominated states.
The Republican politicians have no one but themselves to blame if those same ignorant citizens are angry about competition from low-skill immigrants. If those citizens had realized how they were destroying their own hopes for the future by saving a tiny amount of tax money each, maybe they would have voted Democratic.
Perhaps if the Republicans hadn't waged a war on knowledge and education, mass low-skilled immigration wouldn't be the problem it is. When President Obama said that every young person should have at least 2 years of college or community college to compete in a modern world, Rick Santorum called him "a snob" with remarkable disdain.
The Republicans in Michigan have discovered many ways to squeeze the money out of programs that might help lower income individuals learn the skills to succeed in a technical world. I suspect it is the same in all Republican-dominated states.
The Republican politicians have no one but themselves to blame if those same ignorant citizens are angry about competition from low-skill immigrants. If those citizens had realized how they were destroying their own hopes for the future by saving a tiny amount of tax money each, maybe they would have voted Democratic.
3
In Yellowstone National Park, several well-known geysers have small indicator geysers nearby that spout before the main show. That's what Trump is -- an indicator of where the Republican Party is headed.
2
A third of the Republican primary electorate supports the proto Fascist Trump. A third of the Democratic electorate supports a socialist. What we are seeing is the breakdown of the liberal consensus that governed this country well from about 1945 to 1980. Identity politics from the Left stokes small town and religious resentments. The Right gently taps coded messages to white supremacy for decades, until the election of a black President allows them to speak plainly. Neither party has a convincing argument for the economic dislocations of globalization. As our economy is hollowed, the nationalist enterprise on the Right has to rely on their one trick pony to American military might. Mexicans, Muslims, and the transgendered are new Others to be exploited. Ross, the future of the Republican Party is not the issue here, but the fate of the American republic is. If you ask me to choose between socialism and fascism, I will choose Bernie Sanders every day of the week. I would prefer a less ideological approach, but the last eight years of gridlock manufactured by the GOP have strained the public's willingness to tolerate the politics of accommodation. God help us.
4
"Finally, freaking out over Trump-the-fascist is a good way for the political class to ignore the legitimate reasons he’s gotten this far..."
Amen. This is just another way to discount the reasons why Trump is popular.
Trump's the "un-left", a pushback against the politically correct, anti-war government-dependent movement. Almost everything he says is a direct hit on these unpopular positions.
One could almost call him a champion of un-political correctness. Judging from how our college students are willing to censor free speech (political correctness run amok) he could almost be called prescient.
Amen. This is just another way to discount the reasons why Trump is popular.
Trump's the "un-left", a pushback against the politically correct, anti-war government-dependent movement. Almost everything he says is a direct hit on these unpopular positions.
One could almost call him a champion of un-political correctness. Judging from how our college students are willing to censor free speech (political correctness run amok) he could almost be called prescient.
1
Kudos to the editorial staff for the selection of photos. This one has Trump in a Duce-esque gesture - Mussolini with crazy hair but a nicer suit.
politicsbyeccehomo.wordpress.com
politicsbyeccehomo.wordpress.com
3
The Donald will never actually run for president. If he does, he'll lose. And as we already know, he hates losers. He wouldn't want that albatross around his neck for the rest of his so-called professional life.
4
Probably the only thesis of this column I agree with is that Trump is a fascist. I would add that he is fascist in the manner of the father of Fascism, Benito Mussolini. One way that Mussolini differed from the other fascist movements of the 20th century, and its most virulent offspring, national socialism, is that Mussolini was always an opportunistic character, a nuts-and-bolts, whatever-works-to-generate-support type. In this, Trump, Wallace and Huey Long most closely mirror Il Duce.
But while the RNC leadership is terrified of Trump, because his conservatism (as they define it) seems very loosely attached, most of the other candidates are clearly just as fascistic as Trump, probably more in the Franco mold than the Mussolini one. Are Ted Cruz, Carly Fiorina, Ben Carson, Mike Huckabee, Marco Rubio, or Chris Christie that different? In fact, is the Tea Party contingent in the House and Senate that different?
I think the problem with the GOP is that it has let itself be taken over by a dedicated fascist movement that has terrified entrenched elected officials because of the primary-level attacks that never used to occur. If you were the incumbent, you were the only name on the primary ballot. They all fear the Bob Bennett scenario, where Bennett, a long-respected conservative was knocked off by Tea Partier Mike Lee, a legislative bomb-thrower like Cruz.
But while the RNC leadership is terrified of Trump, because his conservatism (as they define it) seems very loosely attached, most of the other candidates are clearly just as fascistic as Trump, probably more in the Franco mold than the Mussolini one. Are Ted Cruz, Carly Fiorina, Ben Carson, Mike Huckabee, Marco Rubio, or Chris Christie that different? In fact, is the Tea Party contingent in the House and Senate that different?
I think the problem with the GOP is that it has let itself be taken over by a dedicated fascist movement that has terrified entrenched elected officials because of the primary-level attacks that never used to occur. If you were the incumbent, you were the only name on the primary ballot. They all fear the Bob Bennett scenario, where Bennett, a long-respected conservative was knocked off by Tea Partier Mike Lee, a legislative bomb-thrower like Cruz.
7
I'm not surprised that an Op-Ed columnist of the leftist NYT would smear Trump like this. I am surprised of all you loser readers agreeing with Douthat. After eight years of Obama (whom I twice voted for) what have we got? Less unemployment--that's good--but a Neville Chamberlain-like government that is getting kicked around in the world. A government that supports US interests made in the Third and Second World. I am a white male and need to vote for a white male that has my interests at heart. All the other politicians are beholden to lobbies and special interests. Trump is only beholden to good business interests made in the USA. I have advanced degrees in difficult subjects (i.e. I am not a high school dropout) and will vote Trump, whether he's nominated or not. Enough of touchy-feely.
1
The Republican party seems to admire Putin and Trump. And for all the reasons Mr. Douthat describes. America needs a conservative party to compete against the stupid mean-spirited party.
5
Ross Douthat's pettifogging over whether or not Donald Trump is a fascist is based on the false argument that fascism in America must necessarily look like fascism in Nazi Germany. Mark Twain famously said, "History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme." And his claim "that the American conservative tradition has always included important elements — a libertarian skepticism of state power, a stress on localism and states’ rights, a religious and particularly Protestant emphasis on the conscience of an individual over the power of the collective — that inoculated our politics against fascism’s appeal"--rivals Donald Trump's "pants on fire" delusions. "States' rights" is a euphemism for Jim Crow racism. Libertarian skepticism of state power? Really? How does the Patriot Act fit into that formulation? Or gutting the Voting Rights Act? Or denying marriage equality? Protestant "conscience of the individual?" Only when some Protestants want to impose their religious values on others (Kim Davis, Hobby Lobby, etc.) On the contrary, Douthat's conservatism, if carried to his desired ends is EXACTLY what fascism would look like in the U.S.
10
So, to reference the last sentence, here's the "point" we need to remove from Trump's appeal - (quoting an earlier passage)
"the deep disaffection with the Republican Party’s economic policies among working-class conservatives"
Because if that's Trump's point, that dissatisfaction has been the result of straight up Republican dogma over decades - namely the redistribution of wealth to the top, the wealthiest, with a false theory called "supply side" or "trickle down" economics.
Dumped on us all by "Der Reagan" and completely without logic, it has victimized average Americans across the political spectrum. (although, in fairness, it's the right that keeps buying into the nonsense even today)
I'll close with two simple examples of the nonsense.
- You own a shoe factory.
Republicans give you a tax cut.
But demand for shoes is down because working people (the majority of consumers) have seen purchasing power fall.
Why would you create new jobs and increase output without demand? You wouldn't.
- You're a person of great wealth but are not an employer (the most common scenario). You and your upper class cronies make up a tiny fraction of consumers in our economy.
How does cutting your personal top tax rate in half (Reagan again) stimulate job growth or the general consumer economy of the U.S.? It's the broad middle class that creates demand.
Our problem and Trump's "point" is Republican, nonsense economic dogma… plain and simple.
"the deep disaffection with the Republican Party’s economic policies among working-class conservatives"
Because if that's Trump's point, that dissatisfaction has been the result of straight up Republican dogma over decades - namely the redistribution of wealth to the top, the wealthiest, with a false theory called "supply side" or "trickle down" economics.
Dumped on us all by "Der Reagan" and completely without logic, it has victimized average Americans across the political spectrum. (although, in fairness, it's the right that keeps buying into the nonsense even today)
I'll close with two simple examples of the nonsense.
- You own a shoe factory.
Republicans give you a tax cut.
But demand for shoes is down because working people (the majority of consumers) have seen purchasing power fall.
Why would you create new jobs and increase output without demand? You wouldn't.
- You're a person of great wealth but are not an employer (the most common scenario). You and your upper class cronies make up a tiny fraction of consumers in our economy.
How does cutting your personal top tax rate in half (Reagan again) stimulate job growth or the general consumer economy of the U.S.? It's the broad middle class that creates demand.
Our problem and Trump's "point" is Republican, nonsense economic dogma… plain and simple.
6
Donald Trump is a Fascist? He is our first American Emperor and the rest of us are here to serve him. If you want to put a label on him, he is a contemporary Henry the VIII, a skilled ax-cutter, quite ready to parboil two of his chefs or three, if they are no match for his gold palate.
A fine musician with a blast of a trumpet, what is this unfortunate habit of ours to interrupt him during one of his concerts? We should be lining up at his castle, hat in hand, asking if we can be of help in some way with an excellent wage, and a generous bonus at Christmas time.
Never mind if we are weaklings and craven. King Trump is going to look after us, and we are not going to have to put up any more with stuff and nonsense. Sarcastic? Not now. Let us put all heathens on a train, let us follow the greatest heathen of all. If our goal in life is to make the Republic Party happy, he might be just the right Midas to support and share with us a slice of some apple pie crumbs.
He looks ludicrous to some jealous people? We are looking stupider by the day, and remembering what the President said on hearing what Don Sterling had to say about his 'stables', Mr. Stupid pops up every once in awhile and walks among us. Donald Trump is beginning to look like the epitome of good sense, while the rest of us appear to have fallen on our crowns and lost our minds.
O, well, in moments of reflection, we can listen to Trump quietly play Green Sleeves, while rocking the cradle and the Nation.
A fine musician with a blast of a trumpet, what is this unfortunate habit of ours to interrupt him during one of his concerts? We should be lining up at his castle, hat in hand, asking if we can be of help in some way with an excellent wage, and a generous bonus at Christmas time.
Never mind if we are weaklings and craven. King Trump is going to look after us, and we are not going to have to put up any more with stuff and nonsense. Sarcastic? Not now. Let us put all heathens on a train, let us follow the greatest heathen of all. If our goal in life is to make the Republic Party happy, he might be just the right Midas to support and share with us a slice of some apple pie crumbs.
He looks ludicrous to some jealous people? We are looking stupider by the day, and remembering what the President said on hearing what Don Sterling had to say about his 'stables', Mr. Stupid pops up every once in awhile and walks among us. Donald Trump is beginning to look like the epitome of good sense, while the rest of us appear to have fallen on our crowns and lost our minds.
O, well, in moments of reflection, we can listen to Trump quietly play Green Sleeves, while rocking the cradle and the Nation.
2
Ann Coulter? Intellectual? Please! And it is only lately that business "leaders" have started bloviating about undocumented workers, the very ones that they hire.
10
If the only fields being planted are sown with hatred and fear, what else can the people eat? Shame on the Democrats for their timidity, their cautious calculations that leave the alternatives to this demagoguery lying fallow.
Hillary is pure calculation. Bernie, though un-electable in this cycle, carries the only beating heart.
Hillary is pure calculation. Bernie, though un-electable in this cycle, carries the only beating heart.
5
I find the question of Trump being a fascist to be a bit much.Maybe an apprentice fascist but thankfully not the full deal. He does not campaign against democracy as such and does not direct militias to impose his will. Yes,his ideas are ugly and dangerous and reflect just how crazy the republicans have become but lets not conflate that with fascism. That he borrows some pages from the fascist playbook is however a sad fact. I wouldn't mind a quick look at his birth certificate to reassure myself that he was actually born on this planet.
3
I think that this all boils down to the promise our President made to "bring us all together." In fact there is no one who has done more to be divisive and drive a huge wedge between "normal" thinking persons than he.
2
Donald Trump doesn't have to be a facist in order to meet Jamelle Douie's criteria for facism.
Donald Trump is a republican whose documented policy platforms meet Douie's criteria for facism.
Mr Douthat is twisting himself in knots trying to differentiate the two.
Donald Trump is a republican whose documented policy platforms meet Douie's criteria for facism.
Mr Douthat is twisting himself in knots trying to differentiate the two.
6
The difference between Hitler and Trump is:
Hitler served in the German army in WW I.
Captain Bone Spur, he of the tough talking, chicken hawk warmongering, blowhard variety, dodged the Viet Nam draft.
Hitler served in the German army in WW I.
Captain Bone Spur, he of the tough talking, chicken hawk warmongering, blowhard variety, dodged the Viet Nam draft.
7
Trump and his business brethren succeed when they read the daily tea leaves correctly and position their brands accordingly. The lesson carries in all disciplines - from business to politics. So far Trump has proved himself a master in this regard. He is "selling" precisely what the market wants.
This is why the question the title asks - as well as the whole article - is irrelevant. Mr. Douthat needs ask what he and his party will do when Trump wins the nomination.
This is why the question the title asks - as well as the whole article - is irrelevant. Mr. Douthat needs ask what he and his party will do when Trump wins the nomination.
3
Glad to see that Ross is finally catching on. Trump is America's Mussolini. It's interesting but people forget how radical were the policies and politics of the the fascists and the Nazi's. They represented a real break from the established world order as would Trump. You can see the result.
4
Prrhaps the real question that should be asked is is the Republican Party fascist?
15
I don't think Hitler ever won an election, either. Otherwise this is an encouraging piece from the paper's resident tory.
2
The USA did not produce a fascist or communist uprising in the early 20th century for one big reason - labor unions rose instead. They organized the people the fascists and communists would otherwise have organized. They gave those people the sense of power over their own lives and did it in a more democratic way. Yes, there was violence, but it was not as common as violence aimed at overthrowing the government that marked fascism and communism, because it did not have that aim. Labor union heads used the existing governmental system (back room dealing included) rather than try to overthrow it. The government supported organized labor with powerful laws, and that gave the working man a big stake in the government, so why should a working man want to overthrow it for a Stalin or a Hitler? That stake is pretty much gone now, thanks to the conservative movement of the past 40 years, the sending of jobs overseas and thanks to the workers themselves who took the labor unions for granted and did not support them. So, the union movement is powerless, and a Donald Trump arises to take its place. What's the big surprise?
23
"So, the union movement is powerless, and a Donald Trump arises to take its place. What's the big surprise?"
Insightful post. When nobody in power is looking out for the poor, the weak, the powerless then it is no surprise when the people start looking for alternatives.
Trump may be crazy, but he is crazy like a fox because he has read the tea leaves perfectly and made himself the man of the hour.
Douthat was right on one thing, attacking Trump only represses the very real problems his supporters face. There is a distinct possibility that things will get worse before they get better.
Insightful post. When nobody in power is looking out for the poor, the weak, the powerless then it is no surprise when the people start looking for alternatives.
Trump may be crazy, but he is crazy like a fox because he has read the tea leaves perfectly and made himself the man of the hour.
Douthat was right on one thing, attacking Trump only represses the very real problems his supporters face. There is a distinct possibility that things will get worse before they get better.
Douthat is throwing dust in our eyes to minimize the fact that the front-runner for the GOP presidential nomination is a proto-fascist. The important question here is not how many points of similarity with other historical examples of fascism can be checked off a list. The question is how to respond to its prominent appearance in our national political life.
It seems to me that rather than emphasizing the Donald's differences with previous examples of right-wing populism like Pat Buchanan, that the important thing is to recognize how they were harbingers of what we are seeing now and that helped make the GOP a nursery for racist and authoritarian demagoguery.
I am not actually worried that Trump will become president, not because I believe the GOP electorate is sufficiently inoculated against his hateful appeal, (they obviously aren't) but rather because the rest of the billionaire class who actually call the shots are not (yet) convinced that fascism is necessary. My worry is that the Donald is being allowed to prepare the grounds for the day when they do come to that conclusion. When they do, I imagine that rather than relying on a volatile character like Trump, they will turn instead to a more disciplined figure like Ted Cruz to play the strongman. And there is the rub that Douthat and other Republicans who have begun to discuss Trump's fascist tendencies don't want to talk about: Trump isn't the only fascist with a strong following in the GOP.
It seems to me that rather than emphasizing the Donald's differences with previous examples of right-wing populism like Pat Buchanan, that the important thing is to recognize how they were harbingers of what we are seeing now and that helped make the GOP a nursery for racist and authoritarian demagoguery.
I am not actually worried that Trump will become president, not because I believe the GOP electorate is sufficiently inoculated against his hateful appeal, (they obviously aren't) but rather because the rest of the billionaire class who actually call the shots are not (yet) convinced that fascism is necessary. My worry is that the Donald is being allowed to prepare the grounds for the day when they do come to that conclusion. When they do, I imagine that rather than relying on a volatile character like Trump, they will turn instead to a more disciplined figure like Ted Cruz to play the strongman. And there is the rub that Douthat and other Republicans who have begun to discuss Trump's fascist tendencies don't want to talk about: Trump isn't the only fascist with a strong following in the GOP.
20
Why single out Trump? Republican ideology has embraced Fascism; a paranoid belief that enemies of the state from within seek to weaknen and destroy it led by our own President. Uber patriotism and jingoism to support ill conceived and disastrous overseas military operations. Pandering to corporatists while seeking to destroy unions. Mass surveillance of the civilian population. The belief that the existing government and social support systems are tyranny and that poverty, health, social security, the environment and safety should only be a matter of "personal responsibility."
12
And why are so many Republicans supporting him.
18
Whether one calls Trump a proto-fascist or not - your last line "make sure he never has a point" misses the most confounding aspect of his popularity: he is ascending on rhetoric that resonates without being rational.<br/>I think the characterization you seek is demagogue: "a political leader who tries to get support by making false claims and appealing to emotions rather than facts" www.learnersdictionary.com
1
The greatest concentration of Trump's support is Southern white males. It's perhaps noteworthy that Umberto Eco's hallmarks of fascism is to be found in the conclusion of W.J. Cash's monumental meditation, "The Mind of the South." His words seem as relevant today as when they were first published in 1941:
"Proud, brave, honorable by its lights, courteous, personally generous, loyal, swift to act, often too swift, but signally effective, sometimes terrible, in its action -- such was the South at its best. And such at its best it remains today, despite the great falling away in some of its virtues. Violence, intolerance, aversion and suspicion toward new ideas, an incapacity for analysis, an inclination to act from feeling rather than from thought, an exaggerated individualism and too narrow concept of social responsibility, attachment to fictions and false values, above all too great attachment to racial values and a tendency to justify cruelty and injustice in the name of those values, sentimentality and a lack of realism -- these have been its characteristic vices in the past. And, despite changes for the better, they remain its characteristic vices today."
"Proud, brave, honorable by its lights, courteous, personally generous, loyal, swift to act, often too swift, but signally effective, sometimes terrible, in its action -- such was the South at its best. And such at its best it remains today, despite the great falling away in some of its virtues. Violence, intolerance, aversion and suspicion toward new ideas, an incapacity for analysis, an inclination to act from feeling rather than from thought, an exaggerated individualism and too narrow concept of social responsibility, attachment to fictions and false values, above all too great attachment to racial values and a tendency to justify cruelty and injustice in the name of those values, sentimentality and a lack of realism -- these have been its characteristic vices in the past. And, despite changes for the better, they remain its characteristic vices today."
37
Lots goes wrong as this column plays out. First of all, Ann Coulter is an "intellectual?" Also, I think we should stop calling people "deeply religious" just because they profess to be. Finally, it is definitely way past the time to freak out over the "Trump is a fascist" notion. When would be a better time for that - after he is nominated?
6
So, how is he different from the other Republican candidates?
2
The answer to the headline question is Yes. Does a fascist need a mass following to be a fascist? No. Is Ann Coulter an intellectual? No. Has religion insulated America from fascism? Heh heh, no. Does this silly, dishonest column add anything to the debate about the popularity of a fascist and his fascist views. Sadly, no.
4
"as opposed to the 'fascism' that liberals see lurking in every Republican president"
This facile snark -- or is it paranoia? -- is beneath you, Ross
This facile snark -- or is it paranoia? -- is beneath you, Ross
I don't think there is any question, yes he is.
2
". . . the reasonable skepticism about the bipartisan consensus favoring ever more mass low-skilled immigration . . ."
This bit of linguistic gymnastics made me chuckle. How about we call it what it is: Racism. A quarter of the Republican base are racists. Just say it.
This bit of linguistic gymnastics made me chuckle. How about we call it what it is: Racism. A quarter of the Republican base are racists. Just say it.
Douthat, you almost sound like an apologia for Trump. You are all over the place in explanations, none of which suggests a game plan to stop Trump.
When the American public comes to realize what the GOP is up to, to regain power at any cost, it won't spawn the likes of Trump. Otherwise, Douthat, you will have to go back into the think-tank and come up with a better doable solution.
When the American public comes to realize what the GOP is up to, to regain power at any cost, it won't spawn the likes of Trump. Otherwise, Douthat, you will have to go back into the think-tank and come up with a better doable solution.
So, our choices in November may be Fascism or Socialism?
I think the premise is ridiculous. This article addresses the NYT readership as if they are mindless sheep begging for some direction and talking points for the water cooler.
1
Language is important. Listen to Trump. Listen to his vocabulary, his lexicon. It lacks depth. It's shallow. Ross has provided a good summary.
But since language is important and poetry is compressed language, one has to ask is Donald Trump and several other of the GOP candidates such as Ted Cruz "political sociopaths?"
To start with sociopaths have no empathy for their victims. You can see this with Trump and Cruz who use the technique of implanting a bad label for whole ethnic, national or religious groups or policies based on the behavior of an outstanding few. Mexican rapists, radical Islamic refugees, government officials who do not denigrate China. Planned Parenthood, the 17 million who are now signed up on Obamacare (aka as the Affordable care Act) and Medicaid.
Yes the word is political sociopath and it is common among most of the slate of GOP candidates who pander to the right leaning Midwest and southern voter who are exposed to religious talk, TV ads and talk radio that is unbending. The content is generated by the thousands who labor in the GOP's think tanks and policy shops and from the Anne Coulters of the world. This is the movement that has created and sustains the Right's alternate universe. Problems do not have to be solved by hard work, compromise, patience and understanding of the spectrum of human nature. There are no useful solutions just declarations and invectives. From empty suits.
But since language is important and poetry is compressed language, one has to ask is Donald Trump and several other of the GOP candidates such as Ted Cruz "political sociopaths?"
To start with sociopaths have no empathy for their victims. You can see this with Trump and Cruz who use the technique of implanting a bad label for whole ethnic, national or religious groups or policies based on the behavior of an outstanding few. Mexican rapists, radical Islamic refugees, government officials who do not denigrate China. Planned Parenthood, the 17 million who are now signed up on Obamacare (aka as the Affordable care Act) and Medicaid.
Yes the word is political sociopath and it is common among most of the slate of GOP candidates who pander to the right leaning Midwest and southern voter who are exposed to religious talk, TV ads and talk radio that is unbending. The content is generated by the thousands who labor in the GOP's think tanks and policy shops and from the Anne Coulters of the world. This is the movement that has created and sustains the Right's alternate universe. Problems do not have to be solved by hard work, compromise, patience and understanding of the spectrum of human nature. There are no useful solutions just declarations and invectives. From empty suits.
It's such a joy to see the GOP struggle with the consequences of decades of cynical manipulation of frightened, low information white voters. Trump is the vocal personification of what the GOP has become or at least has pretended to be in order to dupe ”working class conservatives" into voting against their own interests. In Trump, Cruz, Carson and the rest, the GOP's chickens have come home to roost. Now let's sit back and watch the party establishment squirm.
Gee Ross, just a week or so ago you said the Republicans needed Nixon II, who had all the characteristics you list of a fascist, but can't tolerate a Trump fascist.
Ann Coulter is a shrill, hateful, highly successful exploiter of fascists.
How in the world did someone as illogical and inexperienced become a Times columnist?
Anyhow, I notice that comments on your columns grow smaller and smaller. Fewer nd fewer people pay attention to you because you are logically dishonest.
Ann Coulter is a shrill, hateful, highly successful exploiter of fascists.
How in the world did someone as illogical and inexperienced become a Times columnist?
Anyhow, I notice that comments on your columns grow smaller and smaller. Fewer nd fewer people pay attention to you because you are logically dishonest.
2
We focus on labels because we want a political discourse that flatters our preconceptions and challenges nothing. Most of the labels (fascist, socialist, liberal, conservative) have been so distorted by manipulative use they no longer mean much.
Trump is simply doing to the Republicans what they and their media have long done, with varying success, to the Democrats. He tells them that the political appeal of his prejudices and pandering absolve him not only from serious political discussion, but from attention to a shared reality. Volume trumps substance and truth, emotion trumps thought, and money trumps democracy. (The Democratic version of this, triangulation and poll-driven conviction, is just as pernicious.) Perhaps we already have a kind of friendly fascism. Certainly we have a system where politics, government, journalism and entertainment have merged into an unholy alliance of manipulation and corruption. Trump is no threat to the status quo; the status quo is the threat.
Trump is simply doing to the Republicans what they and their media have long done, with varying success, to the Democrats. He tells them that the political appeal of his prejudices and pandering absolve him not only from serious political discussion, but from attention to a shared reality. Volume trumps substance and truth, emotion trumps thought, and money trumps democracy. (The Democratic version of this, triangulation and poll-driven conviction, is just as pernicious.) Perhaps we already have a kind of friendly fascism. Certainly we have a system where politics, government, journalism and entertainment have merged into an unholy alliance of manipulation and corruption. Trump is no threat to the status quo; the status quo is the threat.
2
How about a Supreme Court justice that says he knows and rules based on what's in the hearts of people not written in the Constitution. How about a Majority leader--Pelosi--who says we have to pass it before we can find out what's in it. How about a Sec. of State, who looks directly into the eyes of the parents of 4 dead Americans and says their deaths were caused by a video. How about a extreme leftist president who lies and bribes to achieve a goal. How about a mainstream media who abet liberalism while condemning conservatives for perceived sins. Imagine if Bush used an off-site computer similiar to Hillary at State.
It's not Republicans upset with republican politicians--it's Americans upset with the lies, deceit, disrespect, lack of accountability for ALL politicians and all the social engineers based in Washington DC whose hubris blinds them from the truth of their own incompetence at the expense of ,"We, the People."
It's not Republicans upset with republican politicians--it's Americans upset with the lies, deceit, disrespect, lack of accountability for ALL politicians and all the social engineers based in Washington DC whose hubris blinds them from the truth of their own incompetence at the expense of ,"We, the People."
I call him a blowhard. It's easier to spell and fits him to a T.
1
Trump may or may not be a fascist, but has made it clear he greatly appreciates the obsessively outraged attention he gets from the Times and other liberal news media. This incessant, free publicity has been a boon to his candidacy, as he reminds us and tweets all the time. If the Times dares not to pay enough attention to him, all The Donald has to do is rip off another incendiary tweet and he's back on the front page ("How dare he!" "How could he?") He is having the time of his life, and the joke is on all the liberal scolds, who pour gasoline on the blazing fire of the Trump campaign. For those of us old enough to have been around, the improbable march of The Donald and his Fabulous Hair to the White House - and the skeptics who insist it could not happen, impossible, he's a clown! - are all reminiscent of 1979 and another clown who I and my liberal friends thought was a joke candidate - Ronald Reagan.
1
So, he is not a fascist "yet" but a fascist wannabe, fascist in the wings, fascist in training, almost fascist, to be fascist, with fascist tendencies, and these are all OK? I wonder what the right wing "intellectuals" will have to say? Ms. Coulter?
67
What is the point of quibbling over the label: is Trump a Mussolini or is he a Wallace or is he a Buchanan? Who cares? Trump is a salesman who understood that a large chunk of the Republican political marketplace was not being properly served by the products then available, and honed his pitch. Maybe he is Henry Ford?
53
It's much closer to snake oil than automobiles. No, he's not Henry Ford.
I suggest that Ross follow up this insightful article with one that come closer to the possible reality of the situation. The consideration that Mr. Trump fits the classical and medical definitions of a narcissist,
1
Ross, fascists aren't like light bulbs, either on or off. The Republican candidates all display some fascistic proclivities. Poison is still poison, though I'll agree that the dose does matter.
2
". . . intellectuals (Ann Coulter notwithstanding)?"
A conservative columnist who anoints Ann Coulter an "intellectual" is intellectually and ethical bereft. She is a nasty, anti-intellectual, pandering fool.
A conservative columnist who anoints Ann Coulter an "intellectual" is intellectually and ethical bereft. She is a nasty, anti-intellectual, pandering fool.
4
WOW! Having grown up in home where "Mr. Conervative," Bob Taft of Ohio, and later Barry Goldwater were deeply admired, I love this analysis of how Trump differs even from conservative crusaders like Pat Buchana and Ross Perot (though I wouldn't class the segregationist Wallace in with the conservatives). Overall, Douthat provides a fair and sometimes acerbic analysis of Trump's appeal and warning signs for possible more ominous future developments.
Yes, he is.
If you put the question like that — in the title of an op-ed in The New York Times — readers will come to one of two conclusions, namely, that Trump is indeed a fascist, or is something so similar to a fascist that the difference is negligible. After all, if he isn't a fascist, or something virtually indistinguishable from it, why ask the question?
Read the Roman historian Tacitus on Nero and the Great Fire of 64 C.E. Did Nero set the fire? It really doesn't matter what Tacitus writes next. Simply by raising the possibility, Tacitus characterizes Nero as capable of it. So, the emperor ordered the fire set, or he rejoiced in its devastating effects — what's the difference, really?
The same psychology is at work in Trump's own campaign. Did thousands of Muslims in New Jersey cheer on 9/11? Well, if not, why's this guy saying that they did? And even if they didn't actually go into the streets and cheer, they might have done so, right? They were capable of it. What's the difference, really?
This is what Douthat misses in an otherwise excellent column. Moynihan called it "defining deviancy down." Every day that decent people remain silent while Trump does his quasi-fascistic thing, is a day on which we move closer to the real thing.
If you put the question like that — in the title of an op-ed in The New York Times — readers will come to one of two conclusions, namely, that Trump is indeed a fascist, or is something so similar to a fascist that the difference is negligible. After all, if he isn't a fascist, or something virtually indistinguishable from it, why ask the question?
Read the Roman historian Tacitus on Nero and the Great Fire of 64 C.E. Did Nero set the fire? It really doesn't matter what Tacitus writes next. Simply by raising the possibility, Tacitus characterizes Nero as capable of it. So, the emperor ordered the fire set, or he rejoiced in its devastating effects — what's the difference, really?
The same psychology is at work in Trump's own campaign. Did thousands of Muslims in New Jersey cheer on 9/11? Well, if not, why's this guy saying that they did? And even if they didn't actually go into the streets and cheer, they might have done so, right? They were capable of it. What's the difference, really?
This is what Douthat misses in an otherwise excellent column. Moynihan called it "defining deviancy down." Every day that decent people remain silent while Trump does his quasi-fascistic thing, is a day on which we move closer to the real thing.
1
Lest we forget, while most who liberals label fascists are not, Dick Cheney certainly was.
2
Ross, sometimes you seem so smart. Then you do something like use the word intellectual in the same sentence as Ann Coulter.
2
"a libertarian skepticism of state power, a stress on localism and states’ rights, a religious and particularly Protestant emphasis on the conscience of an individual over the power of the collective — that inoculated our politics against fascism’s appeal." Really? Exactly what is libertarian about the right's pursuit of federal laws that dictate what a woman may or may not do with her own womb? What is libertarian about the right's collective effort to restrict access to voting for those who tend to vote democratic? Read Eco's list again; it reads like a checklist of today's Republican party platform.
1
From what is apparent watching other conversations about "Mr. T," the majority of Republicans do not like him. Were their irritable "base" to hand him the nomination, one could presume that most Republicans, less strident in their views, would vote for the Democratic presidential nominee. If not, we are all in trouble. This is all still speculative, and we can hope that, before long, the idea of this bombastic reality TV persona as a candidate will move to the realm of comic strips--then most of us can relax a little, maybe.
1
Ross finally writes a column that makes it appear that he'd like to keep his Times job. He must have shown this to someone else before hitting 'send', as it's not as obtuse and impenetrable as usual.
Trump mentions what's bothering a large demographic. The rest of the candidates won't mention the real issues. They are convinced that is not how politics works.
I'd say that Douthat's third paragraph describes the modern Republican pretty well. Cult of action, check. Agressive masculinity, check. Intolerance of criticism, check. Fear of difference, outsiders, check. Pitch to frustrations, check. Intense nationalism, check. Popular elitism, American superiority, check. And you wonder why he's leading the Republican race. Duh. Liberals don't see every Republican as a fascist. Not Jeb!, or either of the Georges, St. Ronnie, Nixon, etc. None of these people were (or would likely be) good presidents, but they couldn't compete in today's Republican party (see Jeb!).
1
Like other members of his party, Trump is a hate-mongering, manipulative ideologue and liar whose only notion of governance is repression and exploitation. He's a dangerous guy and attention and support only make him more so. But let's not be cute about why he has some appeal. If the working class is enraged, it's precisely because of Republican policies, whether they know it or not. Wealth flowing upwards. A torturous health care system. Years of deliberate propaganda to divert resentment onto blacks, gays, women who need abortions and contraception. Build the mob. Breed the fascist.
2
Ross., trying to help the terrified Republican establishment deflate Trump's campaign with charges of Fascism will not work. Trump's supporters will not care if he is a Fascist and the rest of us really don't see any real difference between Trump and many of the many other candidates including Huckabee, Jindal, Cruze, Fiorina, and Carson who have made hate and fear mongering a major theme in their campaigns. Even Jeb! the so called competent moderate managed to blurt out that we should only accept Christian refugees implying that Muslim refugees are terrorists. This party of Lincoln has fallen very low indeed.
1
He walks like a duck and quacks. The time to confront him is yesterday yet all of the GOP candidates who propose to lead us wish to leave the job for someone else. Trump is a litmus test for them and also a reality check for all the policies that benefit the 1% to the detriment of everyone else.
Both Douthat and Brooks seem to be slowly losing the ability to advocate for conservatism without resorting to stranger and stranger contortions. Hence in the middle of a fairly factual recounting of fascism he has to slip in a dig at liberals. But the performer always reveals himself contortions or no. The most telling inference in this editorial is that conservatives are only one opportunistic virus away from becoming fascists.
1
The hate that Trump is spewing out and attracting isn't all that different from that of other candidates running against him in the primaries - but far more dangerous than meets the eye.The others make it subtly clear that there's a 'we' (white, Christian, working unless 'they' stole the jobs) and that the deserving ones will benefit if we elect them, and a 'they' (everyone else). But only Trump has overtly invited an end to civility, an open right hate - and even to kick and punch 'others' who speak out as if they had rights too.
As someone else has said, admiringly, Trump has exposed Political Correctness as a farce. "Correctness", exposed, can no longer serve to help keep the fury against "those others" in check.
When Trump has finally faded out as a candidate, the hatred he's exposed and made acceptable in American exchanges and in American politics may continue to mushroom, a cloud over our former democracy.
As someone else has said, admiringly, Trump has exposed Political Correctness as a farce. "Correctness", exposed, can no longer serve to help keep the fury against "those others" in check.
When Trump has finally faded out as a candidate, the hatred he's exposed and made acceptable in American exchanges and in American politics may continue to mushroom, a cloud over our former democracy.
1
The more significant point that Douthat makes is that Trump's base is the fascist demographic of the Republican Party.
Of course Douthat tries to equivocate, defining Trump as having the main fascist leader characteristics that attract a following but refusing to characterize that following as inclined towards fascism, but if they are supporting a fascist what else are they?
Of course Douthat tries to equivocate, defining Trump as having the main fascist leader characteristics that attract a following but refusing to characterize that following as inclined towards fascism, but if they are supporting a fascist what else are they?
2
Semantics aside, what frightens me is the fanaticism of his followers, people who show up at his rallies, foaming at the mouth with rage. Are there Trump clubs in America, groups that are dedicated to subservience to his every action and word, and how far are they willing to go in that direction?
3
Ann Coulter is an intellectual? When did that happen? Hayek, Friedman and von Moses are rolling in their truly intellectual graves.
5
Et tu Douthat?
So the long knives of the Republican Party, in the hands of Republican Kingmakers and their pundits have come out to eliminate Mr. Trump?
(Thank God we don't have Fascism yet. Else he'd be disappeared.)
The powers that be have decided enough is enough. Jeb! is our man and by golly we will take down the obstacles even if that means 'taking down our own kind'.
Any astute observer could have seen this coming.
A few weeks ago it was Ben Carson who they undermined. Now its Trump.
The plutocracy prefers a bought and paid for Congress: not a strongman.
Good luck with that. Jeb! hasn't made it out of single digits in polls limited to Republican voters. He doesn't have a prayer in a national election.
So the long knives of the Republican Party, in the hands of Republican Kingmakers and their pundits have come out to eliminate Mr. Trump?
(Thank God we don't have Fascism yet. Else he'd be disappeared.)
The powers that be have decided enough is enough. Jeb! is our man and by golly we will take down the obstacles even if that means 'taking down our own kind'.
Any astute observer could have seen this coming.
A few weeks ago it was Ben Carson who they undermined. Now its Trump.
The plutocracy prefers a bought and paid for Congress: not a strongman.
Good luck with that. Jeb! hasn't made it out of single digits in polls limited to Republican voters. He doesn't have a prayer in a national election.
2
The Labour MP Hilary Benn gave an impassioned speech last night in the House of Commons urging Britain to extend the anti-ISIS bombing campaign to Syria. In it he evoked the tradition on the Left of opposing Fascism, with arms if necessary. If you look at the examples he uses - Franco's Spain, Mussolini's Italy, Hitler's Reich and now ISIS - they are all genuine examples of Fascism where all aspects of life are controlled by a repressive state ideology where the threat of military force is used to eliminate the possibility of private thought and action.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/03/hilary-benn-speech-...
Douthat is absolutely right that there has never been a true Fascist movement in America. I think it is important to maintain the distinction between loathsome demagogues like Trump and genuine Fascism, if only out of respect for the victims of the latter.
But whatever you call Donald Trump I hope he goes soon and stops polluting public discourse. And I hope the Republican party as a whole asks some serious questions about the current crop of candidates; none of them are Fascists but almost all of them are abominable, and they didn't emerge out of nowhere.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/03/hilary-benn-speech-...
Douthat is absolutely right that there has never been a true Fascist movement in America. I think it is important to maintain the distinction between loathsome demagogues like Trump and genuine Fascism, if only out of respect for the victims of the latter.
But whatever you call Donald Trump I hope he goes soon and stops polluting public discourse. And I hope the Republican party as a whole asks some serious questions about the current crop of candidates; none of them are Fascists but almost all of them are abominable, and they didn't emerge out of nowhere.
3
The Trump phenomenon reveals the ugly truth about the GOP: that their governing majority depends on a faction of Americans who are deeply angry, bigoted, racist and ill-informed. Republican leaders cannot attack Trump too vigorously because they may drive away 25% or more of potential voters in next year's election. Will the chickens finally come home to roost? More importantly for the Nation, will sensible moderate Republicans finally show the courage to denounce Trump, even if it means the loss of political power?
The Democrats made a similar choice in the 1960s to support civil rights, even though it meant losing power, particularly in the South. In 2016, will the contrast between the two parties finally shift the balance of power back to the Democrats and sanity back to the Republican Party?
The Democrats made a similar choice in the 1960s to support civil rights, even though it meant losing power, particularly in the South. In 2016, will the contrast between the two parties finally shift the balance of power back to the Democrats and sanity back to the Republican Party?
123
But how do you attack Trump, and ignore Cruz, the man whose only real claim to doing anything in Government was engineering the expensive and useless shut down of the Federal Government by a minority of fanatics who clearly hate the very thought of free elections.
Don't get me wrong I personally dream of Trump as Republican candidate as a landslide Democratic sweep is just what America needs right now.
Don't get me wrong I personally dream of Trump as Republican candidate as a landslide Democratic sweep is just what America needs right now.
About Trump, I say panic early and beat the rush.
159
Ross gives completely absurd reasons for why we don't need to worry about the Donald's fascism. For example, "He hasn't won a primary yet." Yup, the primaries are months away. Next: Donald is not rallying far right intellectuals. OK, but when did Fascists start needing intellectuals? And finally, Donald is only approving of roughing up protesters, without having his own brown shirts to send out to do this. Guess what happens when fascists gain power.
125
Ross Douthat dances his way around the fine points of ideology and factionalism in a way that couldn't get him past the first few minutes of a dissertation defense. What's missing is the fact that most of the people who show up to Trump rallies never took PolSci 101 and couldn't explain the basic tenets of American conservatism or European history no matter how many right-wing online blogs they read or how much rabid talk-radio they listen to. Better to understand it as a miasmic rage that now has a willing leader. So the logical contradictions in Trump's word-salad utterances matter not at all, and likely increase his appeal. Trump is no Il Duce, more like a 21st century Elmer Gantry. But if all those folks indeed show up at the polling station, we've got a problem.
You have more faith in the Republican Party than I do. While I agree that the Donald will eventually fade away, he's showing a clear weakness in the Republican party. Trump is showing us the ugly side in the Republican point of view and the worst parts of some Americans. The Republican party was damaged to begin with and frankly I could see Trump possibly damaging it beyond repair.
1
It really isn't that difficult, Ross. If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck, even if you would rather try to pretend it's a chicken.
1
Short answer: yes.
The fact that I never called a Republican president a fascist makes me wonder, however, whether I am a liberal. What can't Mr. Douthat criticize in one direction without taking a gratuitous swipe in the other?
The fact that I never called a Republican president a fascist makes me wonder, however, whether I am a liberal. What can't Mr. Douthat criticize in one direction without taking a gratuitous swipe in the other?
1
The Donald makes me laugh with his life experience as a surviver he knows how to keep his troops excited and ready for more he reminds me of a family member a great salesman and another family member who married my cousin we called the Donald
He's too old to be a Hitler and knows enough to never trust his crowd but keep them ready for more
He's too old to be a Hitler and knows enough to never trust his crowd but keep them ready for more
Trump's biggest shortcoming as a fascist is that he is an outright coward. A real fascist would be in the military, or the militia, and would be prepared to actually fight and die for their lunatic causes. Trump is a salesman, convincing others to be gung-ho on repugnant ideas, but there is no substance behind him, and most of America obviously knows it.
Trump is just inadvertently laying the foundation for the actual American fascist movement...Ted Cruz and the radicalized right-wing that includes all of the elements of fascism that Trump lacks: intellectuals, "Oath Keepers," and an impassioned army of followers eager to purify the country's morals and preside over a rebirth of national greatness...a coalition much broader than Trump's and just as willing to empower the federal government if the "right" people are in charge and the "right" policies are pursued...
We can debate all we want about Donald Trump's inner fascism. He talks, walks, looks and sounds like a fascist but, among his peers contending for the presidency, he is hardly alone. We take him and his demagogic colleagues lightly at our peril.
Once upon a time, Adolf Hitler was depicted as a blustering buffoon not to be taken seriously in "serious" political circles. It didn't take long for Hitler to disabuse his opponents of their misguided insouciance. We know howthis story turned out.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
Once upon a time, Adolf Hitler was depicted as a blustering buffoon not to be taken seriously in "serious" political circles. It didn't take long for Hitler to disabuse his opponents of their misguided insouciance. We know howthis story turned out.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
1
I'm not a historian or student of European culture. As a true blooded American, I've always been intrigued by popular depictions of Fascism, because it does seem so foreign in our culture. Douthat's comparison in this column has a citation to the New York Book Review by U. Eco, and is quite well composed. Putting aside the current political context and the muckraking the Times and other mainstream media are using to tear down Trump and his presidential bid, I would otherwise have said this is a serious piece. However, in context, I think this is nothing more than a well composed argument, hinging on a red herring, particularly with the obvious comparison to a certain notorious European character.
This fascist moniker will not stick to Trump, and the argument won't ring true with those who could be swayed to change his momentum for a presidential bid. Douthat in the end says that Trump is not fascist, but the moniker was used as a device to bait unsuspecting NYTimes readers. Good job!
This fascist moniker will not stick to Trump, and the argument won't ring true with those who could be swayed to change his momentum for a presidential bid. Douthat in the end says that Trump is not fascist, but the moniker was used as a device to bait unsuspecting NYTimes readers. Good job!
If it sounds like a fascist, smells like a fascist, looks like a fascist, feels like a fascist... then I see no need to taste it to ensure that it's a fascist carrot-cake.
2
Come on, Ross—tell the truth. The "Republican Party" doesn't believe in "small government" when it comes to women's rights to choose, immigrants' children's rights to citizenship, or corporate welfare. The list of horrors you acknowledge as needing anti-proto-fascist innoculants is not a minor issue in this nation. The Democratic Party has no comparison with the homo- xeno- gyno- phobias so attractive to Republicans. Neither Bernie nor Hillary is appealing to any dark side in the primaries. So I say, acknowledge the problem here, don't try to ignore it or camouflage it with rhetoric. You have a major issue as a responsible conservative journalist stuck with defending your Party, which is its political ugliness. Deal with it.
2
Once beyond the ridiculous reference to Ann Coulter as an "intellectual", I was struck by the usual Republican establishment denial of the star power of The Donald. Sorry, Mr. Douthat--Trumpism will not become a movement--it already is a movement. You built this. Enjoy!
1
Yes.
1
"Trump may indeed be a little fascistic" says Douthat (who still mourns the late Francisco Franco. Is that like being a little pedophilic?
2
Whether Trump is a fascist or just a clown, it seems clear that many of his devotees would be receptive to that type of politics. Very worrisome, more so than Mexican immigrants or Daesh, because there is the possibility of that type of group gaining actual political power.
"The best way to stop a proto-fascist, in the long run, is not to scream “Hitler!” on a crowded debate stage. It’s to make sure that he never has a point.
You could have fooled me. What "point" was Hitler himself supposed to have had outside of his psychopathy, and that was anyway impervious to rational discourse? I'd say that the best way to stop a proto-fascist is precisely to make the analogy with the proto-turned-actual fascists of the past. This way, if Trump were to win, the American electorate can't avail themselves of the default response of postwar Germans and Italians: "gosh, at the time we had no idea".
You could have fooled me. What "point" was Hitler himself supposed to have had outside of his psychopathy, and that was anyway impervious to rational discourse? I'd say that the best way to stop a proto-fascist is precisely to make the analogy with the proto-turned-actual fascists of the past. This way, if Trump were to win, the American electorate can't avail themselves of the default response of postwar Germans and Italians: "gosh, at the time we had no idea".
Donald Trump, Ted Cruz, two of the ugliest candidates ever offered to the American voter. Yes, if one understands the definition of fascism, Trump ticks off all the points, but both Trump and Cruz ooze a simmering hated I have not witnessed since Joe McCarthy. As a liberal, I was not, as Mr. Douthat accused, in the habit of referring to GOP candidates as fascists, but when one meets evil, and that evil is fascism, we have an obligation recognize it, and call it what it is. These two candidates are a threat to all we Americans respect in ourselves. They spew equal opportunity hate, and when they tire of Mexicans and Syrians, they just may come for us.
2
Indifference to violations of constitutional law would be my chief criterion for a fascist. Not mere advocacy of violations, but simple rejection of parameters out of hand. Trump meets that test better than anyone since Joe McCarthy.
2
I do agree with what you say, but it is well to remember that Hitler started in a beer hall and was dismissed by many for a very long time. And he didn't have Trump's money.
Oh, and don't forget: Trump shares fascism's love of tacky architecture and the need to put his symbol/name on everything.
Oh, and don't forget: Trump shares fascism's love of tacky architecture and the need to put his symbol/name on everything.
4
Ross,
Whether we can use the F word to describe Mr. T, is not what is important. What is important is that this man clearly has no moral compass. I would be willing to bet much against steep odds that if he were given an MRI, it would show that his brain is either poorly developed in the frontal lobe area where the conscience sits in those of us who have one, or not developed at all.
The man clearly does not behave like an actual human being, not even like a mammal. The man is a lizard. I think it would also be a good bet that If MRI scans were performed on the whole bunch of republican candidates, they would all be lacking in their frontal lobes as well.
Whether we can use the F word to describe Mr. T, is not what is important. What is important is that this man clearly has no moral compass. I would be willing to bet much against steep odds that if he were given an MRI, it would show that his brain is either poorly developed in the frontal lobe area where the conscience sits in those of us who have one, or not developed at all.
The man clearly does not behave like an actual human being, not even like a mammal. The man is a lizard. I think it would also be a good bet that If MRI scans were performed on the whole bunch of republican candidates, they would all be lacking in their frontal lobes as well.
Mr. Douthat is trying to label his way out of the mean streak in the Republican Party. After all Mr. Trump is not speaking in front of empty rooms, and he tops the lineup in polls. As Shakespeare wrote, "The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, But in ourselves, that we are underlings." The real concern are those odd minions who enthusiastically support this odd man.
The real question is why they do they do it. They usually answer, "Because he speaks his mind." Given that he embellishes, lies, and counter lies with bravado, they have embraced the ability to deceive as the pinnacle of human intellect. They want to hang on to their disproven beliefs. They are a class of change resisters who do not want to give up their biases or become more civilized.
The real question is why they do they do it. They usually answer, "Because he speaks his mind." Given that he embellishes, lies, and counter lies with bravado, they have embraced the ability to deceive as the pinnacle of human intellect. They want to hang on to their disproven beliefs. They are a class of change resisters who do not want to give up their biases or become more civilized.
Even in Belgium my father had to be registered as a Jew and was later arrested and killed in Auschwitz. So I know what it is like to live under a fascist regime. Trump is too much of a clown to be a real fascist. I doubt he will go very far with his litany and speeches. I would say one thing to him at some point "You're fired!"
34
He might be a clown but his supporters aren't kidding. He has the support of white supremacists.
The racism of all too many of his supporters is the real deal.
Hence the outrage about "political correctness." They are interpreting this as permission from Trump to make openly racist, sexist, xenophobic comments even if they are outright lies.
That's right. They have just been waiting for permission and now they've gotten it.
When the Black Lives Matter activist was beaten at a Trump rally that did it for me. The campaign was no longer funny.
It has the potential of inspiring real violence.
The racism of all too many of his supporters is the real deal.
Hence the outrage about "political correctness." They are interpreting this as permission from Trump to make openly racist, sexist, xenophobic comments even if they are outright lies.
That's right. They have just been waiting for permission and now they've gotten it.
When the Black Lives Matter activist was beaten at a Trump rally that did it for me. The campaign was no longer funny.
It has the potential of inspiring real violence.
Funny, but many called Mussolini a clown not to be taken seriously.
Trump's a farcist.
80
Superb analysis. American liberal democracy has always been so strong that even traditional political conservatives hold liberal values of freedom, tolerance and self-determination. That's why there has never been a true American-style main-stream Fascism. But this year's GOP campaign has certainly flushed out some exceptions. The times they are a'changing.
48
He does a pretty good Mussolini impression.
1
Although the terms “fascism and fascist” were first associated with the Mussolini regime in Italy the seven “hallmarks of fascism” as identified by Umberto Eco have long been evident in the history of mankind. When compared to Mussolini or Hitler, however, Donald Trump is more like a cheap imitation. It takes more than an over-sized ego to become a successful duce or fuhrer. His absurd “hair do” could never compete with the success of the swastika as a political icon and, on nearly every mark of the successful politician, the Donald reveals himself as a clown - an unfunny clown at that.
That doesn’t mean that Donald Trump can be safely ignored or simply dismissed. His continued lead in the polls indicates, to me at least, that a possible Mussolini or Hitler may yet appear unless the American people don’t seriously begin to address the economic and social problems that bedevil the welfare of this nation.
That doesn’t mean that Donald Trump can be safely ignored or simply dismissed. His continued lead in the polls indicates, to me at least, that a possible Mussolini or Hitler may yet appear unless the American people don’t seriously begin to address the economic and social problems that bedevil the welfare of this nation.
Fascist? Absolutely not. Christy is fascist. Trump is a maverick. I don't care for either of them.
I am amazed how few people really know what fascism is.
Maybe part of the reason is because columnists don't seem to even know what it is and then mislead the public by using the term erroneously. That is a huge disservice to the public good. Shame...
I am amazed how few people really know what fascism is.
Maybe part of the reason is because columnists don't seem to even know what it is and then mislead the public by using the term erroneously. That is a huge disservice to the public good. Shame...
Let's make a comparison: The NYT defends its "borders" and requires a subscription. The NYT is trying to limit the number of "illegal readers" (aka unpaid subscriptions) to a minimum. They are tracking the users, (like Donald suggested with Muslims) with IP address to make sure what they do at any time. NYT wants to be the best and most read journal in the world, and many if not most of the comments by readers who go against their point of view, especially sensitives ones, are not published. Sometimes, the NYT reporting is skewed by biased interest, and certain things under reported (Bernie?) or over reported (Hillary)?
All these actions are okay for the NYT but not for Trump? Give me a break.
Does all this make the NYT fascist? God, NO!
This goes to prove Ross that you and Slate are playing with a big word, fascism, in a very light, uninformed, and mercenary manner, but your readers are sadly, keener and more educated than you.
All these actions are okay for the NYT but not for Trump? Give me a break.
Does all this make the NYT fascist? God, NO!
This goes to prove Ross that you and Slate are playing with a big word, fascism, in a very light, uninformed, and mercenary manner, but your readers are sadly, keener and more educated than you.
George Wallace was "protected from fascism by his local chauvinism"? Thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of Black Americans were murdered, beaten, raped, denied human dignity, denied employment and housing opportunities, given third-rate schools, etc. But to you its just "chauvinism"and Wallace wasn't such a bad man. Mr. Douhat, are you really this insensitive to human suffering caused by vicious racist bigotry? Is it because the victims were and are Black that you can treat their suffering so cavalierly?
Yes, is the obvious answer to your question.
For quite a while now, I have been amazed to see how much he resembles Benito Mussolini.
And then there is one very funnt ine in this column; "... intellectuals (Ann Coulter...) That is a joke right? Ann Coulter intellectual?
For quite a while now, I have been amazed to see how much he resembles Benito Mussolini.
And then there is one very funnt ine in this column; "... intellectuals (Ann Coulter...) That is a joke right? Ann Coulter intellectual?
1
Dear New York Times,
Isn't calling Ann Coulter an "intellectual" enough to lose your job at this paper? Is there any minimum work standard whatsoever once you get a job as a columnist?
Sincerely,
The Reality Based Community
Isn't calling Ann Coulter an "intellectual" enough to lose your job at this paper? Is there any minimum work standard whatsoever once you get a job as a columnist?
Sincerely,
The Reality Based Community
1
The most damning evidence of Trump's fascism -- and his supporters -- is that he's not talking about fixing the process or dealing with the gridlock in Congress. It's all about HIM and his leadership, his skills, what he's going to do to ISIS or China or whatever. His supporters don't even care that he's been all over the block politically, supporting Hillary one year, and even single-payer health care. They like his bluster and swagger and claims that he's the answer. To steal a quote from the late Molly Ivins, his speeches probably sound better in the original German.
This aptly describes all the GOP presidential candidates: a cult of action, a celebration of aggressive masculinity, an intolerance of criticism, a fear of difference and outsiders, a pitch to the frustrations of the lower middle class, an intense nationalism and resentment at national humiliation, and a “popular elitism” that promises every citizen that they’re part of “the best people of the world.”
1
Trump, Trump, Trump. While everyone's looking at, talking about, and quoting Donald Trump, there is a key element that no one seemingly can muster the intestinal fortitude to utter: Trump is the true heart of the Republican Party. While the old school Republicans can wring their hands and despair, it is EXACTLY those Republicans that "opened their big tent" and invited these neanderthals into it. "Invite"? No, too weak a word. cajoled them by adapting their rhetoric and welcoming their rantings. Well at least as long as it was steered against the Democrats. You reap what you sow.
Did the author really just mention Ann Coulter and 'intellectual' is the same sentence?
3
In Germany Hitler was a joke until he wasn't. Republicans have laid the groundwork for Trump with years of anti-immigration, anti-civil rights, anti-women politics. Reap what you have sown.
3
Wow. I hope Ross had been drinking when he wrote this because it sounds like he just voted for Hillary. Rambling on about the GOP's top guy's "degree of fascism" and wishing someone had paid attention to the reasons his supporters are out with their pitchforks sounds like he just threw in the towel. Comparing his ugly attributes on the George Wallace scale of nasty "local chauvinism", read pro-active racism, carves out even lower territory for this sad GOP race to the bottom. Did the Pope talk to Ross as well as John Boehner?
1
This list of Fascists' characteristics made reading Douthat's column every bit worth the effort: a cult of action, a celebration of aggressive masculinity, an intolerance of criticism, a fear of difference and outsiders, a pitch to the frustrations of the lower middle class, an intense nationalism and resentment at national humiliation, and a “popular elitism” that promises every citizen that they’re part of “the best people of the world.”
Fine reasons right there for electing Democrats to government. President Obama's governing philosophy is the antithesis to everyone of these attributes, and Republicans skewer him because of it.
Fine reasons right there for electing Democrats to government. President Obama's governing philosophy is the antithesis to everyone of these attributes, and Republicans skewer him because of it.
1
Are you saying he's not a real fascist, but he's playing one in a reality show?
One of the oldest photo tricks is to take a photo from below someone's chin. Almost certain to make a person look sinister.
The reflexive and negative manner in which the NY Times reports about EVERY Republican candidate is tiresome and uninspired. Manipulating photos is somewhat amateurish.
The reflexive and negative manner in which the NY Times reports about EVERY Republican candidate is tiresome and uninspired. Manipulating photos is somewhat amateurish.
Wow, "Trump may indeed be a little fascistic" .... is that supposed to make us feel better about him
By the way, Ann Coulter an intellectual?? I need to check the definition of intellectual again.
By the way, Ann Coulter an intellectual?? I need to check the definition of intellectual again.
1
All you affluent, privileged citizens out there, who may just be tempted to vote GOP because of taxes or regulations or foreign policy: buy a copy of Philip Roth's "Plot Against America" and read it. You will be scared, especially if you're Jewish, black, Muslim, or Hispanic. Then compare what Trump and the others are saying and doing, and their records. Then think, think hard about who represents you and who doesn't.
83
“Wallace was a noxious segregationist, but his racism was bound up in a local and regional chauvinism.”
He was an admitted segregationist but his racism wasn’t local. His opposition to desegregation busing, for example, met with a lot of support in northern states.
Wkipedia summarizes his 1968 Presidential campaign thus:
He proposed generous increases for beneficiaries of Social Security and Medicare. With regard to Vietnam, he said that if the war was not winnable in 90 days, he would immediately withdraw US Troops. He described foreign aid as money 'poured down a rat hole' and demanded that European and Asian allies pay more for their defense.
These are not unlike positions taken by Donald Trump, who would probably approve of all of them. In Trump like fashion, Wallace’s response to "hippies" who called him a fascist was, "I was killing fascists when you punks were in diapers."
Nowadays both Republicans and Democrats alike sweep Wallace under the rug - he was a Democrat, in that strange world of pre-integration politics – but his “message” is still out there.
He was an admitted segregationist but his racism wasn’t local. His opposition to desegregation busing, for example, met with a lot of support in northern states.
Wkipedia summarizes his 1968 Presidential campaign thus:
He proposed generous increases for beneficiaries of Social Security and Medicare. With regard to Vietnam, he said that if the war was not winnable in 90 days, he would immediately withdraw US Troops. He described foreign aid as money 'poured down a rat hole' and demanded that European and Asian allies pay more for their defense.
These are not unlike positions taken by Donald Trump, who would probably approve of all of them. In Trump like fashion, Wallace’s response to "hippies" who called him a fascist was, "I was killing fascists when you punks were in diapers."
Nowadays both Republicans and Democrats alike sweep Wallace under the rug - he was a Democrat, in that strange world of pre-integration politics – but his “message” is still out there.
You write that Donald Trump "...clearly doesn’t care a whit for limited government or libertarianism, and he’s delighted with a hyperactive state so long as it’s working hand-in-glove with corporate interests."
How is that different from any Republican candidate or Hillary Clinton for that matter. These candidates' silence on Exxon's decision to bury research on climate change and their unwillingness to challenge the continued government support for dirty energy indicates their support for a "hyperactive state" that works "hand-in-glove with corporate interests". Any candidate who takes PAC funding from corporations is arguably MORE supportive than Trump is in terms of ensuring the hand-in-glove relationship between business and government continues… Trump's self-funded campaign frees him from corporate ties more so than his opponents who will owe SOMETHING in return for the investments corporations have made in their campaigns.
How is that different from any Republican candidate or Hillary Clinton for that matter. These candidates' silence on Exxon's decision to bury research on climate change and their unwillingness to challenge the continued government support for dirty energy indicates their support for a "hyperactive state" that works "hand-in-glove with corporate interests". Any candidate who takes PAC funding from corporations is arguably MORE supportive than Trump is in terms of ensuring the hand-in-glove relationship between business and government continues… Trump's self-funded campaign frees him from corporate ties more so than his opponents who will owe SOMETHING in return for the investments corporations have made in their campaigns.
Donald, his arguments and the Republican Party.... Are heading toward Bolivian at uber-warp speed. The American electorate will get the final and defining word on this huckster! Believe me when I tell you this!
NO! Trump is no fascist, we've known him for years. If anything, Slate is fascist, running these rabid attacks on Donald that lack any journalistic attempt at objectivity and integrity, full of horrible insults below their dignity. Who is paying Slate for this blatant abdication from quality journalism to destroy Trump?
Half of the descriptions by Douhat of what it means to be fascist can also be easily apply to NYT's treatment of all social issues they disagree with. We are all a little bit fascist when we don't like what we hear. There's a very interesting article in the Atlantic about this: The Coddling of American Mind.
More fascist than Donald's words, is how media wants to destroy him because he doesn't sing to their tune. Donald doesn't want to destroy anybody, except any attacker of the US, such as ISIS.
There were accounts of Muslims cheering on 9/11, both in the US or outside the US. Now, the issue is how many and the views differ. There were reports on infowars, CBS and local radio. The actual number can hardly be determined now especially when there are hundred of millions of dollars spent by HRC campaign HQ and all the R candidates who all want to destroy Donald bu slander.
All the drugs and south american gangs come from the southern boarder. Now this is a fact. One can find drugs at any corner. How many illegals are rapist or not, can not be determined, Trump's common sense idea is that Mexico doesn't export their best people.
Go Trump 2016!
Half of the descriptions by Douhat of what it means to be fascist can also be easily apply to NYT's treatment of all social issues they disagree with. We are all a little bit fascist when we don't like what we hear. There's a very interesting article in the Atlantic about this: The Coddling of American Mind.
More fascist than Donald's words, is how media wants to destroy him because he doesn't sing to their tune. Donald doesn't want to destroy anybody, except any attacker of the US, such as ISIS.
There were accounts of Muslims cheering on 9/11, both in the US or outside the US. Now, the issue is how many and the views differ. There were reports on infowars, CBS and local radio. The actual number can hardly be determined now especially when there are hundred of millions of dollars spent by HRC campaign HQ and all the R candidates who all want to destroy Donald bu slander.
All the drugs and south american gangs come from the southern boarder. Now this is a fact. One can find drugs at any corner. How many illegals are rapist or not, can not be determined, Trump's common sense idea is that Mexico doesn't export their best people.
Go Trump 2016!
America is not at WAR WITH TERRORISM, Trump is! The more the press attacks him the more support he will get.
During WWII, like it or not, Japanese people were rounded up and put in camps to prevent acts of terrorism. Was America being fascist or patriotic? Our government was trying to protect Americans. Today, our government is not interested in trying to protect Americans, but to preserve the continued use of the US Dollar. It's not about ideology of Republicans, Democrats, Christians or Muslims... its about corporate and political greed.
During WWII, like it or not, Japanese people were rounded up and put in camps to prevent acts of terrorism. Was America being fascist or patriotic? Our government was trying to protect Americans. Today, our government is not interested in trying to protect Americans, but to preserve the continued use of the US Dollar. It's not about ideology of Republicans, Democrats, Christians or Muslims... its about corporate and political greed.
"The best way to stop a proto-fascist, in the long run, is not to scream “Hitler!” on a crowded debate stage. It’s to make sure that he never has a point."
In other words, Mr. Douthout, support one of his Republican contenders who happens be be not proto-fascist, but crypto-fascist. And we all know who is holding Trump's gravy-boat. That would be Mr. Cruz.
In other words, Mr. Douthout, support one of his Republican contenders who happens be be not proto-fascist, but crypto-fascist. And we all know who is holding Trump's gravy-boat. That would be Mr. Cruz.
2
1. The fact that we can see a serious Op-Ed piece questioning whether the leading GOP candidate for U.S. President is a Fascist is alarming all on its own.
2. The fact that a regular NYT editorialist can seriously attempt to justify fascism by pairing it with other legitimate political positions (states rights, financial conservatism) is appalling on its face. The fact that Pat Buchanan, Ross Perot and George Wallace held positions in common with legitimate conservatism is irrelevant to their fascism...that's like saying genocide is okay, as long as it is balanced with church on Sunday.
Ross, you need to stop and THINK about what you wrote and ask yourself: Have my political goals become so great as to cloud my moral judgement? Is the same true for the leadership of my party? And this? the party of the "moral majority"...the one thing this slate of GOP candidates is clearly lacking is morality. Terrifying.
2. The fact that a regular NYT editorialist can seriously attempt to justify fascism by pairing it with other legitimate political positions (states rights, financial conservatism) is appalling on its face. The fact that Pat Buchanan, Ross Perot and George Wallace held positions in common with legitimate conservatism is irrelevant to their fascism...that's like saying genocide is okay, as long as it is balanced with church on Sunday.
Ross, you need to stop and THINK about what you wrote and ask yourself: Have my political goals become so great as to cloud my moral judgement? Is the same true for the leadership of my party? And this? the party of the "moral majority"...the one thing this slate of GOP candidates is clearly lacking is morality. Terrifying.
5
"... a little fascistic ..." Ahh, an amuse bouche of fascism, just a dab at the pulse points. This is a new shade of grey, a way of sidestepping any suggestion of absolutism when conservatives are asked about Trump. Is anyone listening to how DT's tone has changed in just the last couple of weeks? When does "a little' grow up? Jiminy Crickets!
1
the NYTimes doing their best to make Trump look like a liar, so when it comes time for the general election, they could handicapp him when he accuses Hillary of lying. Thats whats really going on here. Trumpo never suiggested or agreed to a registry for all Musllims. Never. the reporter did, and Trump said "absolutley" to implementing a wall. Just yesterday, a video from a CBS News report from September 2001 reported the FBI riaded apt buildings in Jersey City and found Muslims cheering on the rooftops. But these werent just Muslims, they were supporters of the Blind Sheik responsible for the 93 WTC attack The FBI found "swarms" of terror suspects in those buildings. No, there werent thousands, but there were enough to get the attention of the FBI, especially when they found a model of the WTC center in their possession.
Look it up. Its on Youtube. Now couple them, with the Muslims celebrating in Paterson (video of calls made to Howard Stern on 9/11), multiple locations in Bklyn, and even NYC, and that adds up to a lot. Maybe not thousands, but it certainly happened, all over the place, counter to what the media is saying that it didnt happen at all.
Look it up. Its on Youtube. Now couple them, with the Muslims celebrating in Paterson (video of calls made to Howard Stern on 9/11), multiple locations in Bklyn, and even NYC, and that adds up to a lot. Maybe not thousands, but it certainly happened, all over the place, counter to what the media is saying that it didnt happen at all.
Others think he's a fascist. See the handwriting on the wall...yeah, the Germans and Americans missed it too with Hitler
The loose coalition that formed modern Republican politics has many disparate groups that joined in a single “anti-liberal” cause some three decades ago. Modern Republican doctrine is very right wing, and its angry political war against mid-20th century “liberal” life is singular. To be in the party means go after something liberal, conquer it, and move on to conquer again. Never reflect or reason, and never break ranks. Never discuss how far you can tilt a democracy to the right, before it is just a democracy in name only.
One example is the way rampant corrupt cronyism became "ok" in conservative politics. The political tactic of distraction is to label you as subversive by asking, “Are you a capitalist or a socialist?” It’s a false question. Capitalism is a system for running banks and markets, not government. Capitalists are the largest financiers, not people who “believe” in capitalism. Business bureaucracy is run as a political monarchy, not a democracy.
Collective memory fades and the 20th century society had first hand experience watching unchecked right wing rhetoric lead to totalitarianism, fascism, eugenics and genocide. The current cast of demagogues for president on GOP-TV is the results of the same right wing doctrine Republican concoctied decades ago. What's missing are calls for more independent moderation, reasonable debate, and diverse thought. Things today's party works hard to stamp out.
One example is the way rampant corrupt cronyism became "ok" in conservative politics. The political tactic of distraction is to label you as subversive by asking, “Are you a capitalist or a socialist?” It’s a false question. Capitalism is a system for running banks and markets, not government. Capitalists are the largest financiers, not people who “believe” in capitalism. Business bureaucracy is run as a political monarchy, not a democracy.
Collective memory fades and the 20th century society had first hand experience watching unchecked right wing rhetoric lead to totalitarianism, fascism, eugenics and genocide. The current cast of demagogues for president on GOP-TV is the results of the same right wing doctrine Republican concoctied decades ago. What's missing are calls for more independent moderation, reasonable debate, and diverse thought. Things today's party works hard to stamp out.
1
Just yesterday, my students and I were noting that Trump seems to be spouting, almost verbatim, items from the Right Wing Authoritarianism scale. (Originally called, the F Scale; F for fascism)....
1
The media tells me only the uneducated crazy uncle loves Mr. Trump, yet over Thanksgiving break I witnessed all of my aunts, uncles, grandparents and family friends—who rarely talk politics—discuss how great he is, and how they're eager to vote for him. These are upper-middle class centrists. These are college-educated accountants, lawyers, doctors, teachers, engineers and dentists.
Ross, I think your posse is SEVERELY underestimating Trump's appeal.
Ross, I think your posse is SEVERELY underestimating Trump's appeal.
114
I'm curious, what do your relatives say? How do they explain his appeal for them?
Agree completely that Trumps appeal is being underestimated.
I voted for Obama twice, Kerry in 2004, and before that Gore in 2000 in the general election. I fully expect to be voting for Trump in the PA Republican primary, and assuming he eventually gets the nomination (which I think he will), will be voting for him in the November 2016 general election.
I have to wonder if there are many others out there intending to do the same.
There is the potential for a lot of crossover, going both ways.
I voted for Obama twice, Kerry in 2004, and before that Gore in 2000 in the general election. I fully expect to be voting for Trump in the PA Republican primary, and assuming he eventually gets the nomination (which I think he will), will be voting for him in the November 2016 general election.
I have to wonder if there are many others out there intending to do the same.
There is the potential for a lot of crossover, going both ways.
"it's still quite likely that the Republican Party is inoculated against HIM" ...mmmm ....and then you woke up! Nice dream Douthat!
"Ann Coulter" and "intellectual" in the same sentence? Now, THAT is funny!!
1
If you have to ask....
I find it hilarious when strongly identified Republicans go on the attack against Donald Trump. They must really be scared, their knees actually knocking that he could take the nomination.
Guess what, so am I, someone who has been forced to move into the Democratic Camp because of the march toward the far right. I'm scared because if nominated, he has a 50% chance of winning, and President Donald Trump is a pretty scary thought.
Guess what, Mr. Douhat? Donald Trump is only 20% or so crazier than Jeb Bush, the establishment candidate, 18% crazier than Mike Huckabee, 16% crazier than Marco Rubio, 8% crazier than Carly Fiorini, 5% crazier than Ben Carson and 1.23% crazier than Ted Cruz. Each and every one of the Republican candidates are seriously guilty of the same excesses as Donald Trump, just a little less guilty.
Still....................if nominated, it opens the possibility of him being elected. Never have I entertained a scarier thought in my 64 years on earth.
Guess what, so am I, someone who has been forced to move into the Democratic Camp because of the march toward the far right. I'm scared because if nominated, he has a 50% chance of winning, and President Donald Trump is a pretty scary thought.
Guess what, Mr. Douhat? Donald Trump is only 20% or so crazier than Jeb Bush, the establishment candidate, 18% crazier than Mike Huckabee, 16% crazier than Marco Rubio, 8% crazier than Carly Fiorini, 5% crazier than Ben Carson and 1.23% crazier than Ted Cruz. Each and every one of the Republican candidates are seriously guilty of the same excesses as Donald Trump, just a little less guilty.
Still....................if nominated, it opens the possibility of him being elected. Never have I entertained a scarier thought in my 64 years on earth.
1
Dear Mr. Douthat,
Absurd question: "Is Donald Trump a Fascist'?
Silly man, he's a REPUBLICAN just a little more honest than the others running for the presidency from the GOP/TP/KOCH AFFILIATE.
Besides, he doesn't have a little moustache and an arm band.
Absurd question: "Is Donald Trump a Fascist'?
Silly man, he's a REPUBLICAN just a little more honest than the others running for the presidency from the GOP/TP/KOCH AFFILIATE.
Besides, he doesn't have a little moustache and an arm band.
Is Donald Trump A Fascist?
Yes.
To credibly say so without being dismissed as a NYT reading liberal kook do I have to establish my religious bona fides? Mr Douthat suggests I do: "...a religious and particularly Protestant emphasis on the conscience of an individual over the power of the collective — that inoculated our politics against fascism’s appeal." Yet there was a very strong religious nexus, CHRISTIAN religious nexus, albeit not Protestant, between Mussolini and the Vatican under the aegis of Pius XII. The home grown form, emphatically Protestant, shunned the Jewish refugees and approved of the incarceration of Americans of Japanese heritage.
Trump is the Charles Lindbergh of our day. Say you heard it from a liberal kook in the Times: a Fascist.
Yes.
To credibly say so without being dismissed as a NYT reading liberal kook do I have to establish my religious bona fides? Mr Douthat suggests I do: "...a religious and particularly Protestant emphasis on the conscience of an individual over the power of the collective — that inoculated our politics against fascism’s appeal." Yet there was a very strong religious nexus, CHRISTIAN religious nexus, albeit not Protestant, between Mussolini and the Vatican under the aegis of Pius XII. The home grown form, emphatically Protestant, shunned the Jewish refugees and approved of the incarceration of Americans of Japanese heritage.
Trump is the Charles Lindbergh of our day. Say you heard it from a liberal kook in the Times: a Fascist.
2
Hitler told the Germans that:
Their problems were imposed on them by Jews and other countries.
That only he knew how to fix the problems, and that the existing government did not know what to do.
That if he was given power, he would make the problems immediately disappear.
Hitler used the BIG LIE technique, in which you keep repeating something that you know is a lie, but you say it louder and more vociferously whenever you are challenged.
Substitute Americans for Germans.
Substitue Mexicans for Jews and Islamists for other countries.
Substituting Der Fuehrer Trump for Hitler is not a stretch at all.
Yeah, he IS a fascist. And he needs to be called out on that early and often.
Their problems were imposed on them by Jews and other countries.
That only he knew how to fix the problems, and that the existing government did not know what to do.
That if he was given power, he would make the problems immediately disappear.
Hitler used the BIG LIE technique, in which you keep repeating something that you know is a lie, but you say it louder and more vociferously whenever you are challenged.
Substitute Americans for Germans.
Substitue Mexicans for Jews and Islamists for other countries.
Substituting Der Fuehrer Trump for Hitler is not a stretch at all.
Yeah, he IS a fascist. And he needs to be called out on that early and often.
2
Ross,
I would venture to guess your not a New Yorker, nor is the person who equated Trump with Fascism.New York is loaded with Trumps, you can hear them on every Street corner where there is a debate.We tend to speak loudly, & usually argue about issues we know little about. New Yorkers don't have time to research anything, were too busy trying to survive, & get to places on time,We are in the minute debaters, on subjects that arouse our interests. Such as the Massacre in California, before the authorities had decided if the California Gunmen were terrorists, 9 out of 10 New Yorkers had decided they were sent by ISIS.We make decisions quickly & are usually wrong & then regret we took that position.Trump is a typical New Yorker, quick to explode & quicker to repent.New Yorkers are fascists until they go into the voting booth, where they take their time to pick the candidate they most identify with, & they vote for the Liberal.Take note Republicans, Trump is the one Republican Candidate that can have Liberals like me to cross over the line & vote for him. I sincerely hope my endorsement doesn't hurt him.
I would venture to guess your not a New Yorker, nor is the person who equated Trump with Fascism.New York is loaded with Trumps, you can hear them on every Street corner where there is a debate.We tend to speak loudly, & usually argue about issues we know little about. New Yorkers don't have time to research anything, were too busy trying to survive, & get to places on time,We are in the minute debaters, on subjects that arouse our interests. Such as the Massacre in California, before the authorities had decided if the California Gunmen were terrorists, 9 out of 10 New Yorkers had decided they were sent by ISIS.We make decisions quickly & are usually wrong & then regret we took that position.Trump is a typical New Yorker, quick to explode & quicker to repent.New Yorkers are fascists until they go into the voting booth, where they take their time to pick the candidate they most identify with, & they vote for the Liberal.Take note Republicans, Trump is the one Republican Candidate that can have Liberals like me to cross over the line & vote for him. I sincerely hope my endorsement doesn't hurt him.
Ross, you reminded me this morning of what Maurice Bloch, the anthropologist, said about how 'ideology' works: That when it DOESN'T work the final stage is to back it up with 'force'.
Hence, enter the "Trumpthumpers", the jackboot enforcers that Trump sics on those who dare to speak out against his gibberish.... or, that he gently warns with a wag of his finger, "Oh, no, treat them gently..."
Now, that's just plain creepy.
As I wrote in an earlier comment, being "a little fascistic is like being a little pregnant". Donnie is a thug, not just an abstract verbal thug calling for torture and killing families, but an active thug, calling for force, urging his devotees to smack and smash actual people standing in the room.
That makes him a fascist.
You DO get that..... don't you?
Hence, enter the "Trumpthumpers", the jackboot enforcers that Trump sics on those who dare to speak out against his gibberish.... or, that he gently warns with a wag of his finger, "Oh, no, treat them gently..."
Now, that's just plain creepy.
As I wrote in an earlier comment, being "a little fascistic is like being a little pregnant". Donnie is a thug, not just an abstract verbal thug calling for torture and killing families, but an active thug, calling for force, urging his devotees to smack and smash actual people standing in the room.
That makes him a fascist.
You DO get that..... don't you?
1
Mussolini said:
“Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power”
which this echoes here:
"Not so Trump: .... he’s delighted with a hyperactive state so long as it’s working hand-in-glove with corporate interests."
“Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power”
which this echoes here:
"Not so Trump: .... he’s delighted with a hyperactive state so long as it’s working hand-in-glove with corporate interests."
Seems selling fear, class division, racism, misogyny.....hmmm, who does this sound like?
58
Observe Trump’s followers and we get a clear picture of his fascist message.
Trump peddles a doctrine of “us against them”, his scapegoat are foreigners and immigrants. This appeals to a very dangerous right wing element; he gives them what they want.
Trump’s last rally included more swearing and swagger, the crowd hung on each word.
Hitler blamed the Jews for the decline of Germany and said he would make Germany “Great Again”, this is exactly the Trump campaign strategy.
The fact that white supremacy groups have flocked to Trump rallies in the South is proof of who his message resonates with.
Former KKK leader David Duke endorsed Trump last month citing him as is “the best choice”.
http://www.dailystormer.com/new-yorker-says-everyone-who-supports-trump-...
Trump peddles a doctrine of “us against them”, his scapegoat are foreigners and immigrants. This appeals to a very dangerous right wing element; he gives them what they want.
Trump’s last rally included more swearing and swagger, the crowd hung on each word.
Hitler blamed the Jews for the decline of Germany and said he would make Germany “Great Again”, this is exactly the Trump campaign strategy.
The fact that white supremacy groups have flocked to Trump rallies in the South is proof of who his message resonates with.
Former KKK leader David Duke endorsed Trump last month citing him as is “the best choice”.
http://www.dailystormer.com/new-yorker-says-everyone-who-supports-trump-...
141
Some chilling comments on that link....
When Trump held that rally in the stadium down South, and flew overhead in his personal 757, my blood ran cold.
Trump doesn't worry me. I'm worried about his followers and what it says about how easily some of us are manipulated.
202
Well written.. but you are basically saying Trump isn't a fascist simply because he hasn't won the nomination. On the morning after Super Tuesday he will be a fascist
3
Of course Mr. Trump is a fascist - his rhetoric extols those principles enshrined in every definition of fascism I have ever read. However, I disagree with Mr Douthat - we must call him out on this and explain in detail why. One point that must be made is that fascists will use the trappings of democracy to gain power only to overthrow that democracy from within once power is gained. There will be no protection for American freedom from a "elected" fascist dictator. The government as we know it will cease to exist as those dark deeds that Mr. Trump hints become our new way of life.
3
Nice picture...I will bet you will next say that the original speech was better in German. Call trump a bully...he is a product of a an inlorent left that has shoved political correctness and mass illegal immigration down everyone's throats. An incompetent, biased and manipulative press that he has attacked successfully is a problem that has created trump. His blunt instrument-like approach and frank assessments of an America where people see things going south are appreciated by many because most people in the Republican Party are afraid to discuss true issues of concern. Manipulative articles like this just keep pushing more people toward the extreme trump.
Ross Douthat is in panic mode. This article is his contribution to the Republican effort to derail Trump's campaign. Mr. Douthat, your party created this Frankenstein monster. Don't pretend that you can distance yourself from it.
15
"Fascist" is not exactly correct. "Authoritarian" would be a far better description.
A dictator can come clothed in any of an number of political messages. Although we use the shorthand term fascist for anyone on the right, it is better to simply identify that we are dealing with the cult of the Great Leader:
"I know what is best for you. Choose me and I will lead you to greatness. And I will make the trains run on time."
But for those of us who remember history, and can remember the look at Berlin, Rome, and Tokyo in 1945, what comes to mind is that the epitaph for these Great Leaders should be (in all irony) that of Christopher Wren - "If you seek his monument, look around you."
A dictator can come clothed in any of an number of political messages. Although we use the shorthand term fascist for anyone on the right, it is better to simply identify that we are dealing with the cult of the Great Leader:
"I know what is best for you. Choose me and I will lead you to greatness. And I will make the trains run on time."
But for those of us who remember history, and can remember the look at Berlin, Rome, and Tokyo in 1945, what comes to mind is that the epitaph for these Great Leaders should be (in all irony) that of Christopher Wren - "If you seek his monument, look around you."
1
Interesting that Mr. Douthat did not mention Spain and General Franco. He seemed to have support from the Catholic Church. Mr. Douthat's opinion that we have never experienced fascism because of the religious feelings of Republicans is unsupported by facts.
I tire of conservatives such as Mr. Douthat assuming that all other conservatives think like he does. Never admit that your party has created a monster and that monster has evaded your control. When you obtain power by appealing to people's baser instincts, fears, prejudices, and nationalism then do nothing to address the aforementioned, the monster comes to get you. Mr. Douthat seems to think that conservatives such as himself can wash their hands of Mr. Trump. Nice try.
I tire of conservatives such as Mr. Douthat assuming that all other conservatives think like he does. Never admit that your party has created a monster and that monster has evaded your control. When you obtain power by appealing to people's baser instincts, fears, prejudices, and nationalism then do nothing to address the aforementioned, the monster comes to get you. Mr. Douthat seems to think that conservatives such as himself can wash their hands of Mr. Trump. Nice try.
11
The Donald is not a particularly conservative or "Republican" Republican - he not too long ago supported abortion rights, single-payer healthcare and a wealth tax - but as he drew closer to throwing his hat in the Presidential ring, he knew that as a career marketing, advertising and branding megalomaniac, there was only one party where he had a chance to rise like a meteor, and that was the Grand Old Propaganda party, where reality and facts defer to emotion, fear, misdirection and the religious belief in Greed Over People.
Trump tested the political waters by championing the Big Birther Lie about President Obama and had good success propagating that right-wing lie; that laid the groundwork for Trump's current swim in the Republican Presidential cesspool.
The great fascist 'Il Duce' Benito Mussolini said "We do not argue with those who disagree with us, we destroy them".
Trump practices that Mussolinism with every breath he takes.
That quote is also the entire Republican political playbook as evidenced by Mitch McConnell and Company's repeated statements and actions to try and make the current President a failure.
Mussolini also said "Three cheers for the war. Three cheers for Italy's war and three cheers for war in general. Peace is hence absurd or rather a pause in war."
That quote nicely sums of the spirit and ideas of today's GOP leadership instincts and their culture of fear, violence, nihilism and death.
King Trump is happy to step into the GOP's fascist breach.
Trump tested the political waters by championing the Big Birther Lie about President Obama and had good success propagating that right-wing lie; that laid the groundwork for Trump's current swim in the Republican Presidential cesspool.
The great fascist 'Il Duce' Benito Mussolini said "We do not argue with those who disagree with us, we destroy them".
Trump practices that Mussolinism with every breath he takes.
That quote is also the entire Republican political playbook as evidenced by Mitch McConnell and Company's repeated statements and actions to try and make the current President a failure.
Mussolini also said "Three cheers for the war. Three cheers for Italy's war and three cheers for war in general. Peace is hence absurd or rather a pause in war."
That quote nicely sums of the spirit and ideas of today's GOP leadership instincts and their culture of fear, violence, nihilism and death.
King Trump is happy to step into the GOP's fascist breach.
52
Which of the current crop of Republican presidential candidates is not a fascist? I'm thinking there are a few, but it would be a short list. Cruz and Huckabee would not be on it.
6
Proto-fascist. Bah. How about narcissistic Sybarite. The attention his candidacy has attracted is a reflection of American values. Kim Kardashian for Vice President?
2
From the beginning, as I watched Trump, I thought the general reaction that he was a "clown" was missing that this was the reaction in Germany to Hitler's first months.
Educated Germans could not believe that a country like Germany wouldn't soon see the joke and laugh Hitler off the stage. What they missed was that many German citizens were not educated. This group needed someone to blame for their being at the bottom of German society.
They also needed someone who would say aloud what they said in private. Someone who expressed their frustration and anger. Hitler and Trump both fulfill these needs.
Of course, there were some in the elites who supported what they expected would be an easily controlled stooge. In the `30s, they had a fear of communism. Today, many/most in the 1% have a fear of socialism.
All Hitler had to do was find a enemy to blame and to demonize. At that point in history Jews were perfect scapegoats. The poor already blamed them for their plight. And, upper-class non-Jews were uncomfortable with Jews " immigrating" into German society.
Today, immigrants are seen by the poor as taking their jobs and getting a free-ride from the government. For the economic elite, a growing immigrant population is a concern because they tend to support Democrats -- the party that might bring socialism to America.
And, everyone has a fear of crime. Outsiders can be marketed, as Trump is doing, as an acceptably blamable group since they have no power base as do blacks.
Educated Germans could not believe that a country like Germany wouldn't soon see the joke and laugh Hitler off the stage. What they missed was that many German citizens were not educated. This group needed someone to blame for their being at the bottom of German society.
They also needed someone who would say aloud what they said in private. Someone who expressed their frustration and anger. Hitler and Trump both fulfill these needs.
Of course, there were some in the elites who supported what they expected would be an easily controlled stooge. In the `30s, they had a fear of communism. Today, many/most in the 1% have a fear of socialism.
All Hitler had to do was find a enemy to blame and to demonize. At that point in history Jews were perfect scapegoats. The poor already blamed them for their plight. And, upper-class non-Jews were uncomfortable with Jews " immigrating" into German society.
Today, immigrants are seen by the poor as taking their jobs and getting a free-ride from the government. For the economic elite, a growing immigrant population is a concern because they tend to support Democrats -- the party that might bring socialism to America.
And, everyone has a fear of crime. Outsiders can be marketed, as Trump is doing, as an acceptably blamable group since they have no power base as do blacks.
7
Yes, Trump is clearly a fascist. Many of his policy proposals would be illegal by American or international laws. They include collective punishment, torture, the rounding up, interning and deporting of 11 million men, women, and children (with many of the latter American citizens), and his suggestions that mosques should be surveilled, that Muslims be placed on a national register, etc. Substitute the word Jew for any of these policies, and they are strikingly similar to policies that Hitler or Mussolini implemented.
Trump's father was arrested for violence at a KKK rally, so this may be part of his background. Aryan Nation all the way! (And forget the diversity of America).
Trump's father was arrested for violence at a KKK rally, so this may be part of his background. Aryan Nation all the way! (And forget the diversity of America).
4
Mr. Douthat does an excellent job of describing why Trump should be considered a fascist. Then he proposes that Republicans should somehow make sure “he never has a point.” Huh? What point are we talking about? Mr. Douthat provides us with Trump’s points. They are already made and unfortunately they are driving the other candidates “points” as well. It is naïve to think that Trump’s no-nothing fascism can’t take hold here. It can and is happening. The sad irony is that the leading Republican candidates want to put us further under the watchful eye of a central government – ostensibly to protect us. It is the Republicans that are using fear to arouse hatred and suspicion of outsiders so as to justify changing the fundamental reason why America exists in the first place. I think Mr. Douthat has written an excellent opinion piece, but then falls back into wishful thinking. The real risk isn’t that Trump will get the nomination, but that he will fall on his sword and Ted Cruz will take charge. Then we’ll have a fascist who believes God has given him a mandate to control the world. He is the real danger and Trump is setting the stage for him to look moderate and rational.
3
It's hard for me to decide which has been more satisfying about Donald Trump's insurgent presidential campaign--the mainstream media meltdown or the terror engulfing and devouring the complacent Republican establishment.
2
Nonsense to the idea that liberals are mistaken about republican fascism beyond trump. First of all it's the right that has been calling Obama a fascist from day one, so we don't even play that game. Secondly, trump is just stepping up the republican message....all of these traits exist in every republican candidate. It's the tea party electorate who want facist leader and trump is stepping up to be that guy. The other contenders are trying to be more like trump now.
4
"But Trump, because he isn’t really an ideological conservative, lacks that inoculation."
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigggggggghhhhhhhht. 'No True Conservative'.
Ross, 'conservative' is a way of pretending that the current rightwing cesspool is not right-wing.
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigggggggghhhhhhhht. 'No True Conservative'.
Ross, 'conservative' is a way of pretending that the current rightwing cesspool is not right-wing.
11
That's a mighty ignorant "always," Ross: "the American conservative tradition has always included important elements — a libertarian skepticism of state power, a stress on localism and states’ rights." Alexander Hamilton? John Marshall? The American System of Henry Clay? The Republican Party until 1920?
1
The Trump thing, the gun violence, the addiction epidemic, the huge numbers of Americans on anti-depressants, the crap on commercial TV, free pornography available to children, the overscheduling of our children, the death of liberal arts education in favor of job training, the huge student debt, the economic distress of working people, the best and brightest going into finance instead of real work, and internet 140 bit mediated communication are all telling us that our way of life in this country has turned in a way that is just not good for our people. Walls at the border and belated control of guns are addressing the symptoms. We are in trouble. Our political system will not help us.
2
A very compelling analysis (except for the quite valid, but rather cop-out-ish final remark). Mussolini and Hitler were veterans of an incredibly brutal world war, ambitious and shrewd thugs yet also clever and experienced leaders, on cunning and ruthless missions to power.
Trump is chickenhawk buffoon on an ego trip.
Mr. Douthat's commentaries have hardly been immune from blind spots, but this one is very perceptive. Public concern should focus on the potential for real fascists in the future, who may adeptly pick up the pieces where Trump's clownish stunts leave off.
Trump is chickenhawk buffoon on an ego trip.
Mr. Douthat's commentaries have hardly been immune from blind spots, but this one is very perceptive. Public concern should focus on the potential for real fascists in the future, who may adeptly pick up the pieces where Trump's clownish stunts leave off.
3
I watched a live speech of Trump's one evening with the sound turned off. I recommend every American do the same. The resemblance to a particular historical personality is unmistakable and truly scary.
7
Every time I see Trumps face I want to draw a little mustache on it.
90
Is this article alerting us to a danger, or diverting focus from the what is creeping into our mainstream politics?
63
If Trump is a fascist, he's your fascist, and at least 30 percent of your party's voters are fascist. Congratulations.
12
Is Trump a fascist? Does the bear go in the woods?
If any of the Republican candidates had any measure of honesty, he/she would sink his his/her teeth into Trump about the shameful questioning of President Obama's birthplace and not let go until Trump cried uncle. Not a single one of them has done so, and Douthat follows in that great tradition. So yes, may be we liberals do see fascism lurking in the other GOP candidates when they support the same policies as Trump, and even go so far as to say they admire him.
Forget all the other stuff, Mr. Douthat. It all begins with being honest. I don't want a dishonest president, no matter how smart or skilled or hard working or strong-willed he/she is.
If any of the Republican candidates had any measure of honesty, he/she would sink his his/her teeth into Trump about the shameful questioning of President Obama's birthplace and not let go until Trump cried uncle. Not a single one of them has done so, and Douthat follows in that great tradition. So yes, may be we liberals do see fascism lurking in the other GOP candidates when they support the same policies as Trump, and even go so far as to say they admire him.
Forget all the other stuff, Mr. Douthat. It all begins with being honest. I don't want a dishonest president, no matter how smart or skilled or hard working or strong-willed he/she is.
3
Sinclair Lewis noted in "It Can't Happen Here" that if fascism came to America it would not be wearing a blackshirt and jackboots but come in the guise of a good ole boy. While it is hard to characterize Trump as a good ole anything, he is a very rich man - indeed, a robber baron, masquerading as a regular fellah. He celebrates his own ignorance and bigotry as Americanism, and somehow manages to convinces his followers of that. He is in fact one whose inherited wealth formed the basis of his fortune, one who plays at being a "regular guy" and turns democracy into a blood sport in which Mexicans are to be hunted down and anyone who disagrees with him is to be punished. We try to reserve the term fascist for those who created the Holocaust, but the first step towards fascism is the demonizing of "the other" and that is Trump's favorite political ploy.
9
Okay, so we all knew Trump was crazy. Now all the pundits are actually analyzing and categorizing his craziness for us. Well said. But Ross, you're speaking to intellectuals and no one who matters is listening. The Republican leaders already know this and they may use your input to increase their fight against him, but they can't do much more than they already are. Good article though! Missing a period at end of penultimate paragraph, by the way.
1
This NYT subscriber supports Trump, warts and all. The alarmist chatter is typical of many presidential campaigns. I remember LBJ's infamous "Daisy" commercial against Goldwater, the little girls counting petals fading into a launch countdown, and the Willie Horton commercial. And if Trump fails, there is Cruz. Rather than focusing on Trump, ask why so many Americans are sick of the political and economic ruling class. For example, I would prefer one million LEGAL and properly vetted immigrants, to one million ILLEGAL immigrants, regardless of country of origin. Does this make me a fascist?
29
You're sick of the economic ruling class so you turn to *Trump*??
As others have pointed out, what is a larger concern than Trump, is that there are so many so easily deluded, and so easily enthralled by flash and bluster, to support him.
As others have pointed out, what is a larger concern than Trump, is that there are so many so easily deluded, and so easily enthralled by flash and bluster, to support him.
1
This is the first I have heard that Donald Trump is not a member of the economic ruling class. But I guess you have to see this billionaire real estate magnate, television personality, power broker as an outsider to justify your elite populism. That doesn't make you a fascist but it sure shows you're delusional.
1
It does if your solution is the one Trump has proposed, namely creating hundreds of thousands of new armed government agents to go out and round up all 11 million "illegals" within 2 years (a promise he has made), no matter where they might hide, arresting any American who tries to help them, and splitting up their families if their children are American citizens...
Trump has literally promised to make massive armed forces of government agents to do things which violate US law, and to arrest under his own authority anyone who disagrees with him.
So, yes...if you agree with Trump and what he's claimed he'll do and how he'll do it...you're likely a fascist.
Trump has literally promised to make massive armed forces of government agents to do things which violate US law, and to arrest under his own authority anyone who disagrees with him.
So, yes...if you agree with Trump and what he's claimed he'll do and how he'll do it...you're likely a fascist.
1
Interesting. It appears this crop of Republican nominees has repulsed both Ross Douthat and David Brooks.
A good sign, I think, but the NY Times may have to reach farther to the right to find a sympathetic (to Republicanss) columnist. Maybe Glenn Beck is available.
A good sign, I think, but the NY Times may have to reach farther to the right to find a sympathetic (to Republicanss) columnist. Maybe Glenn Beck is available.
3
Ross, how can it be that conservative Real Americans, who as you tell us repeatedly are the backbone of the nation, have found a champion in this professional braggart? Could it be because you have mischaracterized them, that they are far less canny and far more angry than a cosseted Jesuit might imagine?
You wield religion like a club and attempt to beat senseless anyone who doesn't spice his understanding of reality with the paprika of mysticism, as if a belief in an invisible world helps a person make rational decisions in this one. I would argue that blindly worshiping an ultimate universal Duce marks a person as a good candidate for fascism.
For what do you imagine Trump supporters pine? How might their fantasy look different than the America in which we live? Already we administer concentration camps such as the one at Guantanamo Bay in which we exhibit vanquished enemies clad in orange for the world to see. We intervene at will in internecine conflicts worldwide. This week, our Congress, which is if nothing else consistent, voted to negate the President's authority in climate negotiations. As Robert Reich has pointed out in his new prescription, "Saving Capitalism," the U.S. no longer practices laissez-faire capitalism but a darker variety in which monopolies set prices and monopsonies set wages.
For all his bluster, how would Trump change America in any negative way? Sure, he could become a figure of international fun, but as GWB might say, "Been there, done that."
You wield religion like a club and attempt to beat senseless anyone who doesn't spice his understanding of reality with the paprika of mysticism, as if a belief in an invisible world helps a person make rational decisions in this one. I would argue that blindly worshiping an ultimate universal Duce marks a person as a good candidate for fascism.
For what do you imagine Trump supporters pine? How might their fantasy look different than the America in which we live? Already we administer concentration camps such as the one at Guantanamo Bay in which we exhibit vanquished enemies clad in orange for the world to see. We intervene at will in internecine conflicts worldwide. This week, our Congress, which is if nothing else consistent, voted to negate the President's authority in climate negotiations. As Robert Reich has pointed out in his new prescription, "Saving Capitalism," the U.S. no longer practices laissez-faire capitalism but a darker variety in which monopolies set prices and monopsonies set wages.
For all his bluster, how would Trump change America in any negative way? Sure, he could become a figure of international fun, but as GWB might say, "Been there, done that."
2
I am beginning to wonder just how many hours are actually in Mr. I - ME - MY's day. He must have unique access to more than the conventional 24 because, to personally accomplish everything he 'bloviates' about, he is going to need every second and then some. As to delegation to 'great personal friends', one has to really wonder if any one of them will actually give up their golden egg existence to help him/us out.
One thing Mr. Trump has succeeded in is a level of self aggrandizement that has 'trumped' the 15 minutes of fame cliche.
One thing Mr. Trump has succeeded in is a level of self aggrandizement that has 'trumped' the 15 minutes of fame cliche.
Donald Trump....is a megalomaniac....who...shouts and cries out ...
PEOPLE LOVE ME....and ...I do not know why his self-absorbed yelling appeals
to the electorate....perhaps because...there are so many who feel disenfranchised...and wish...that their government...cared about THEM...
The electorate ...wishfully thinks that Donald Trump really cares about THEM.
But the wake up call...smelling the coffee truth is that
TRUMP...loves TRUMP...and there is no more to say.
IS Trump a fascist.....no Trump is a super snake oil salesman...whose promises
are ...simply SNAKE OIL...
PEOPLE LOVE ME....and ...I do not know why his self-absorbed yelling appeals
to the electorate....perhaps because...there are so many who feel disenfranchised...and wish...that their government...cared about THEM...
The electorate ...wishfully thinks that Donald Trump really cares about THEM.
But the wake up call...smelling the coffee truth is that
TRUMP...loves TRUMP...and there is no more to say.
IS Trump a fascist.....no Trump is a super snake oil salesman...whose promises
are ...simply SNAKE OIL...
It is naive to assume that libertarianism, individualism and local control have, as Ross Douthat, states "inoculated our politics" against fascism.
We do have a strong libertarian streak seeking to get the government out of our business and finances, seeking to reduce taxes and regulations. But at the same time, we have the same group of people looking for the government to restrict many personal liberties. They are against regulation, unless it will eliminate abortion clinics; they are for personal rights unless it provides freedom for marriage equality.
Selective libertarianism doesn't inoculate us: it just tells us that when the stakes are high enough, even those professing to be libertarian will be happy to use the government to impose their will on others.
And that doesn't inoculate us against fascism. Trump's supported buy what Trump is selling, and yeah, it sure does sound like Eco's fascism.
We do have a strong libertarian streak seeking to get the government out of our business and finances, seeking to reduce taxes and regulations. But at the same time, we have the same group of people looking for the government to restrict many personal liberties. They are against regulation, unless it will eliminate abortion clinics; they are for personal rights unless it provides freedom for marriage equality.
Selective libertarianism doesn't inoculate us: it just tells us that when the stakes are high enough, even those professing to be libertarian will be happy to use the government to impose their will on others.
And that doesn't inoculate us against fascism. Trump's supported buy what Trump is selling, and yeah, it sure does sound like Eco's fascism.
4
Trump is stylistically different from the other GOP candidates, but they essentially agree with each other. None would be good for America.
6
This also describes Italy's Silvio Berlusconi, right down to the aging billionaire's thinly-veiled weakness for the opposite sex. Trump's fascism is also likely to be as buffoonish as Berlusconi's. As easily lampooned as Silvio's Napoleon-complex. Unluckily for Italy, he hung around like a bad cold, becoming their prime minister 3 times between 1994 and 2011 before finally being convicted of tax fraud.
Don't take my word for it, Douthat succinctly describes the type:
"a cult of action, a celebration of aggressive masculinity, an intolerance of criticism, a fear of difference and outsiders, a pitch to the frustrations of the lower middle class, an intense nationalism and resentment at national humiliation, and a “popular elitism” that promises every citizen that they’re part of “the best people of the world.”"
Don't take my word for it, Douthat succinctly describes the type:
"a cult of action, a celebration of aggressive masculinity, an intolerance of criticism, a fear of difference and outsiders, a pitch to the frustrations of the lower middle class, an intense nationalism and resentment at national humiliation, and a “popular elitism” that promises every citizen that they’re part of “the best people of the world.”"
1
At a certain moment in the history of a society's decline, fascism may become the last best alternative available, a better alternative certainly than to witness with equanimity the programmed minoritization/demonization/marginalization of the demographic that created what used to be the most admired and envied state on earth. Any people that would peaceably allow this to be done to them by their enemies will deserve the hell-on-earth that has been scheduled for them.
Fascism or multiculturalism - I chose the former.
Tito Perdue
author
Fascism or multiculturalism - I chose the former.
Tito Perdue
author
1
I agree with most commenters. Trump's ascendancy has been enabled by what Republicans have sown.
But I am perplexed entirely by his solution-- make sure Trump has no point. Huh?
But I am perplexed entirely by his solution-- make sure Trump has no point. Huh?
Before deciding whether Donald Trump is a fascist, could we agree that Ann Coulter is not an "intellectual?"
12
Is Donald Trump a Fasxist?
Is the Pope Catholov?
Is the Pope Catholov?
1
Says Douthat: "But Trump, because he isn’t really an ideological conservative, lacks that inoculation."
Douthat hasn't noticed that few Republican stars now are "idealogical conservatives"? They are radicals who would demonize the real Ronald Reagan or Dwight Eisenhower (just as most of those who call themselves Christians would toss the historical Jesus out of their church for his extreme, bleeding heart, weak ideas about loving enemies and caring for the poor.)
Trump is who he plays on TV. And who he plays is a hatefully bully. "This is how it begins" are the words of warning that have been handed down from other times when it seemed a few men's hate couldn't infect a culture. But as the daily horrific shootings in our country show, we are already infected with mass delusions about safety in which putting ourselves and our children at enormous risk is defined in the double speak of "making us more safe." In so many aspects of our collective life, Americans shouldn't be able to recognize ourselves. And yet we cling to an outdated self-image. Who are we now? Let's not let Donald Trump be our mirror.
Douthat hasn't noticed that few Republican stars now are "idealogical conservatives"? They are radicals who would demonize the real Ronald Reagan or Dwight Eisenhower (just as most of those who call themselves Christians would toss the historical Jesus out of their church for his extreme, bleeding heart, weak ideas about loving enemies and caring for the poor.)
Trump is who he plays on TV. And who he plays is a hatefully bully. "This is how it begins" are the words of warning that have been handed down from other times when it seemed a few men's hate couldn't infect a culture. But as the daily horrific shootings in our country show, we are already infected with mass delusions about safety in which putting ourselves and our children at enormous risk is defined in the double speak of "making us more safe." In so many aspects of our collective life, Americans shouldn't be able to recognize ourselves. And yet we cling to an outdated self-image. Who are we now? Let's not let Donald Trump be our mirror.
2
Unfortunately, events keep colliding with Trump's narrative, whatever label we give it. Fear of the 'others' that feeds those hungry for the last gasps of the America the way they want it to be again.
I'd accept a lot of Douthat's reasoning here until and except when he connects Ann Coulter to "far-right intellectuals." That remark distorts reality to an unacceptable point and calls into question Douthat's conclusions.
3
This column is deliberate mischief masquerading as political commentary. The author unleashes the F-word and then goes on to deny that it really applies. And what's the result? A comments section in which respondents discover crypto- or proto-fascism lurking everywhere in the US and its history.
Nowadays populism is filled with easy solutions for complicated issues. Somehow demonising your opponent seems toe be the only way to to win an American election.
This is not fascism. Fascism is all about blud and boden. Or to put it in nowadays perspective the "godlike" knowledge of being right just because you are of a certain race, from a certain country or/and a certain religion. It excludes any doubt about the ground-rules as stated by its leaders/ high priests.
So being an opportunist who knows what is wrong with his opponent is not fascism but normal election rhetoric.
The "nice" thing about mr. trump is that he has brought this to a new high. So high that even the "Saturday night live" has difficulty to exaggerate beyond this point.
I would, as an anthropologist, be more interested in the why this is acceptable for a mayoralty of the Republican electorate. There interest and trust in the American elective system has been shattered by years of negative campaigning. There is the width felt feeling that election are sold and bought by the elite.
A good start to change this situation would be new journalism.
Foxification has robed the American public of the knowledge where a candidate stands for. Demonising a candidate (even mr. trump) is not the way.
So if you boys and girls journalist would please be so kind to stay with the issues and not with the smoke it would change the playing field all together.
This is not fascism. Fascism is all about blud and boden. Or to put it in nowadays perspective the "godlike" knowledge of being right just because you are of a certain race, from a certain country or/and a certain religion. It excludes any doubt about the ground-rules as stated by its leaders/ high priests.
So being an opportunist who knows what is wrong with his opponent is not fascism but normal election rhetoric.
The "nice" thing about mr. trump is that he has brought this to a new high. So high that even the "Saturday night live" has difficulty to exaggerate beyond this point.
I would, as an anthropologist, be more interested in the why this is acceptable for a mayoralty of the Republican electorate. There interest and trust in the American elective system has been shattered by years of negative campaigning. There is the width felt feeling that election are sold and bought by the elite.
A good start to change this situation would be new journalism.
Foxification has robed the American public of the knowledge where a candidate stands for. Demonising a candidate (even mr. trump) is not the way.
So if you boys and girls journalist would please be so kind to stay with the issues and not with the smoke it would change the playing field all together.
1
One of the hallmarks of fascism is what Ralf Dahrendorf calls nostalgia for synthesis. The re-establishment of the class and racial
order as it was and the return to a society where everyone knows their place. This is evident among Trump's supporters in the white working class. Trump plays to every second of his campaign.
order as it was and the return to a society where everyone knows their place. This is evident among Trump's supporters in the white working class. Trump plays to every second of his campaign.
I think a more important question is whether Trump is a sociopath. He doesn't seem to have an inner moral compass. He gives every impression of being a man who sees right and wrong as only what works or doesn't work for him. I don't think he has a political ideology.
346
Sociopathy is in the job description for a fascist, under "minimum requirements."
That's an excellent point. I see him as such and believe that part of the problem the R establishment has with him is his utter unpredictability. There is no way to know what Trump would do in the unlikely event he would be President. Ted Cruz however, is a Neo-Facist pure and simple and is the most dangerous clown in the car.
Trump is a tasteless and offensive self involved arrogant bully. That he is tolerated as a serious candidate not only by the Republicans but by many others is startling and disturbing. He should have been shooed off the stage a long time ago but endures for reasons that raise concerns about the continued viability of American democracy. He is worse than Joe McCarthy who had no money and was incredibly inept. Trump is moneyed and unfortunately far smarter. He is a master manipulator and insensitive bully whom the party elders should have thrown out of the tent a long time agao. What does that say about the Republicans?
I think that Mr. Douthat is missing a very large point here. The republican party he talks about no longer exists outside of beltway punditry. Since the rise of the Tea Party, for all intents and purposes the republican party itself has been more of a Fascist party. No one in the party has the backbone to say the direction is wrong. This is what happens to parties that are intellectually bankrupt with no new ideas to replace the old ideas that have proven time and again to be wrong. If you have to maintain power by fear (something the republicans have become very good at with very little pushback from democrats), you have to constantly up the rhetoric to be effective. Donald Trump is no aberration. He is the CREATION of todays republican party
1
2.
6. Controlled Mass Media Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
7. Obsession with National Security Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.
9. Corporate Power is Protected The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
10. Labor Power is Suppressed Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.
6. Controlled Mass Media Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
7. Obsession with National Security Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.
9. Corporate Power is Protected The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
10. Labor Power is Suppressed Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.
1
3.
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.
14. Fraudulent Elections Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.
Dr. Lawrence Britt
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.
14. Fraudulent Elections Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.
Dr. Lawrence Britt
1
Oh, Ross, let's call Donald Trump an outright Fascist. I see him, hung like Il Duce, upside-down from a lamppost in a public square (Times Square) - just a bit of bone, shmatta and that fluffy feral platinum hairhat! The Donald will meet his well-deserved Waterloo comeuppance before Super Tuesday and the Republicans will just have to come up with another pick-of-the-wannabe-POTUS crop for their Presidential candidate.
1
"I would say no, for three reasons. "
This column is rather amusing. Mr. Douthat starts it by making an excellent case that Trump is a fascist. Trump's picture has the classic Hitler pose; all that is needed is an air brushed mustache. He then goes circular and rather weakly refutes his early premise. Look if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it is a duck. Trump reveals the dark secret that establishment Republicans have always wished to keep secret; an uncomfortably large percentage of their voters are exactly that; fascists.
This column is rather amusing. Mr. Douthat starts it by making an excellent case that Trump is a fascist. Trump's picture has the classic Hitler pose; all that is needed is an air brushed mustache. He then goes circular and rather weakly refutes his early premise. Look if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it is a duck. Trump reveals the dark secret that establishment Republicans have always wished to keep secret; an uncomfortably large percentage of their voters are exactly that; fascists.
1
One of the most important “hallmarks of fascism,” which Mr. Douthat does not mention in his column, is the unconstitutional practice of guilt by association.
Guilt by association is the unscrupulous readiness to attribute guilt, collectively, to millions of innocent citizens because they are members of a group, or are a minority, on account of the guilt of a few who are members of the same group or minority.
Attributing guilt to all Muslim citizens in America, on account of the guilt of a few Muslims elsewhere, as Mr. Trump has done and is doing, is a classic fascistic application of this unconstitutional practice of guilt by association.
This is what happened during the discredited era of McCarthyism, named after that notorious fascist, the late Senator Joseph McCarthy of Wisconsin, who in the fifties attributed “Communism,” collectively, to federal employees, to professors and to journalists, in an effort to silence dissent, on account of a few who had embraced Communism in the early thirties.
Perhaps “the ‘fascism’ that liberals see lurking in” most of the current Republican presidential candidates is derived from their eager willingness to accept and even support Mr. Trump’s indefensible application of the fascist practice of guilt by association against Muslim Americans.
Guilt by association is the unscrupulous readiness to attribute guilt, collectively, to millions of innocent citizens because they are members of a group, or are a minority, on account of the guilt of a few who are members of the same group or minority.
Attributing guilt to all Muslim citizens in America, on account of the guilt of a few Muslims elsewhere, as Mr. Trump has done and is doing, is a classic fascistic application of this unconstitutional practice of guilt by association.
This is what happened during the discredited era of McCarthyism, named after that notorious fascist, the late Senator Joseph McCarthy of Wisconsin, who in the fifties attributed “Communism,” collectively, to federal employees, to professors and to journalists, in an effort to silence dissent, on account of a few who had embraced Communism in the early thirties.
Perhaps “the ‘fascism’ that liberals see lurking in” most of the current Republican presidential candidates is derived from their eager willingness to accept and even support Mr. Trump’s indefensible application of the fascist practice of guilt by association against Muslim Americans.
6
Donald Trump is a clear thinking American. If more people were like Trump America would be a better place to live in. If Trump becomes President we will become great again. The borders will be defined, illegals will be sent to their home countries and ISIS and all other treats will be resolved. We can then get back to rebuilding America.
It would seem that Mr Douthat, with his ahistorical wishful thinking about religious inoculation, might well do to read up on Monsignor Jozef Tiso and the Hlinka Guard as well as the Poglavnik, Ante Pavelić, the Ustaše movement and the Independent State of Croatia - and who were the supporters of this monstrosity. I am not sure why Mr Douthat is so ill-informed as good summaries of these phenomena can be found readily on such websites as "Wikipedia." Along with a faction of the Italian fascists, Dollfuss in Austria, the Iron Guard in Hungary and even Vichy France, these movements have been described by some theorists as variants of "clerical fascism," another concept with which Mr Douthat might acquaint himself.
3
A type of mass mental illness has come over the current Republican party and Ross Douthat continues to turn a blind eye and make excuses for their collective insanity.
2
This editorial looks too far to the past. Trump's campaign looks a lot like the Freedom Party's campaign here in Austria, Le Pen in France, the Law and Justice party in Poland, the People's Party in Switzerland etc. I think it's better to call it national socialism than fascism and it's doing very well here in Europe. It posits each country as belonging to a specific ethnic-religious group, Christian "white" and within that group a specific language and local culture. Trump is stealing lines right out the mouths of the far right parties of Europe.
The republicans have often run on the racial side of this platform. There's a reason why african americans, latinos, and other minority groups rarely vote Republican. Republicans occasionally run on an English language platform too, a bizarre idea since dozens of languages were spoken in the US when the country was founded. Anti-immigrant is also a standard republican platform.
The far right parties in Europe absolutely have their roots in national socialism. So linking Trump to fascism isn't so odd--but stop talking about Hitler. Talk instead about the parties right now, 2015, in Europe. Douthat sounds out of touch with what is going on in the world today.
Jeb Bush picked up a line directly from Slovakia in 2015, by the way, when he said the US should only take christian refugees. Wow! So Douthat shouldn't single out Trump. Most republican candidates are running similar campaigns.
The republicans have often run on the racial side of this platform. There's a reason why african americans, latinos, and other minority groups rarely vote Republican. Republicans occasionally run on an English language platform too, a bizarre idea since dozens of languages were spoken in the US when the country was founded. Anti-immigrant is also a standard republican platform.
The far right parties in Europe absolutely have their roots in national socialism. So linking Trump to fascism isn't so odd--but stop talking about Hitler. Talk instead about the parties right now, 2015, in Europe. Douthat sounds out of touch with what is going on in the world today.
Jeb Bush picked up a line directly from Slovakia in 2015, by the way, when he said the US should only take christian refugees. Wow! So Douthat shouldn't single out Trump. Most republican candidates are running similar campaigns.
3
Isn't being a "little fascistic" (Douthat's phrase) like being a "little bit pregnant"? History has shown that tolerating a little bit of fascism in the name of "peace in our time" (Chamberlain) or to break the hegonomy of centrist politics (as the German communist party thought in the 1930s) is not a good idea.
1
Hitler, Mussolini and Tojo had/have their apologists too. But does that mean they weren't fascists?
1
Pat Buchanan fits the definition of fascist even better than Trump. He endorsed mob violence, virulent anti-semitism, and sympathy for Germany in WWII.
Ross, have you ever listened to AM talk radio with the likes of Coulter, Limbaugh etc? Have you ever looked below the surface at what the Tea Party stands for in their quest to "Take our country back?"
It's not so much a case of "low information voters" supporting candidates like Trump, Carson, Rubio, Cruz and Fiorina. They have lots of information but most of it is coming from wildly popular hate radio and bloggers with access to audiences that Josef Goebbels could never imagine.
It's not so much a case of "low information voters" supporting candidates like Trump, Carson, Rubio, Cruz and Fiorina. They have lots of information but most of it is coming from wildly popular hate radio and bloggers with access to audiences that Josef Goebbels could never imagine.
4
I agree with Douthat's assessment that Trump is nothing "to panic over -- yet." He is an outrageous, embarrassing buffoon who has attracted buffoons to his support. He is not a serious threat to our nation, but other Republican candidates are.
The most seditious Republican, in the GOP offering for a 2016 nominee, is Ted Cruz. Unlike Trump, Cruz does invoke religious fervor. Cruz is not only dangerous to good governance, he is scary. This is a man who believes a with religious conviction that he has the answer to everything, need not listen to others or compromise on his ideas. He is the antithesis of the government that our founding fathers gave us. He is a more relevant threat to our nation and out democracy than any Donald Trump fascism.
The most seditious Republican, in the GOP offering for a 2016 nominee, is Ted Cruz. Unlike Trump, Cruz does invoke religious fervor. Cruz is not only dangerous to good governance, he is scary. This is a man who believes a with religious conviction that he has the answer to everything, need not listen to others or compromise on his ideas. He is the antithesis of the government that our founding fathers gave us. He is a more relevant threat to our nation and out democracy than any Donald Trump fascism.
3
The seven manifestations of fascism mentioned in the article do sound a lot like Trump. But then again, they sound like every Republican.
5
Is anybody worried about Ross using the phrase "a little bit Fascist"? How little is the bit? Who gets to decide when the bit gets too big? Have we all lost our minds?
8
But though the GOP voter demographics "make it awfully difficult for him to get to 40 or 50 percent", he doesn't need 40-50% as long as he's competing against 6 or more others that split the vote. His 25% is sufficient for a plurality and plenty of winner-take-all delegates.
2
I was wondering where Ross was heading at the beginning of his column, calling the leading contender in the GOP race a fascist.
And then, "Voila": Donald Trump is not a real Conservative and he lacks "real religious faith". That conveniently allows Ross to distance himself and his group from Candidate Trump and, accordingly, we all should be relieved.
So why am I not impressed?
And then, "Voila": Donald Trump is not a real Conservative and he lacks "real religious faith". That conveniently allows Ross to distance himself and his group from Candidate Trump and, accordingly, we all should be relieved.
So why am I not impressed?
3
Regrettably, Mr Douthat spoils what would otherwise be a well-reasoned opinion piece with a gratuitous remark about the faux fascism that only "liberals see lurking in every Republican president." While some liberals no doubt regard the views of what seems to be a large and growing element of extreme conservatism within the modern GOP as indistinguishable from fascism, Mr Douthat's sweeping statement is at best hyperbolic and uncharitably could be viewed as disingenuous.
In fact, were we to turn Mr Douthat's statement around to read that fascism is what "today's conservatives see lurking in any Democrat president", it would be much more accurate. As proof, simply Google "Obama fascist" and see what comes up in the 1,330,000 hits you will get.
In fact, were we to turn Mr Douthat's statement around to read that fascism is what "today's conservatives see lurking in any Democrat president", it would be much more accurate. As proof, simply Google "Obama fascist" and see what comes up in the 1,330,000 hits you will get.
5
This is so weak, which seems to be Douthat's way. He hints that Trump "has a point", while utterly failing to ask any tough questions about the ugliness of what the GOP electorate is becoming.
6
How unfortunate then, that the democrats and republicans continue to create the perfect breeding ground for fascism, as european leftists are doing across europe with their insane programs of mass immigration.
First, you import low skilled laborers. They vote for you, and you get big business to donate to your causes, as you've saved them the money they'd have had to pay native workers.
Second, you start insulting those same natives as they get angry about being dispossessed in a land that their ancestors built. Call them racist, call them bigots, call them every slur you can think of. As long as they aren't fighting back, you can continue your program of replacing them in both the work force and in general. Try to say everyone is all the same as a bonus point (after all, who are they going to believe - the saintly totally not racist politician, or your racist lying eyes?).
Third, there is no third. At this point you've doomed yourself in the long run, and probably the nation too. This is where fascists and national socialists start showing up, because you've created a race problem where previously there was none. You've created a legitimate victim complex where previously there was none. Fascists and national socialists can and do abuse these two things with ease, and the second a competent front man arises - they will.
Congratulations, hopefully the short term profit was worth it.
First, you import low skilled laborers. They vote for you, and you get big business to donate to your causes, as you've saved them the money they'd have had to pay native workers.
Second, you start insulting those same natives as they get angry about being dispossessed in a land that their ancestors built. Call them racist, call them bigots, call them every slur you can think of. As long as they aren't fighting back, you can continue your program of replacing them in both the work force and in general. Try to say everyone is all the same as a bonus point (after all, who are they going to believe - the saintly totally not racist politician, or your racist lying eyes?).
Third, there is no third. At this point you've doomed yourself in the long run, and probably the nation too. This is where fascists and national socialists start showing up, because you've created a race problem where previously there was none. You've created a legitimate victim complex where previously there was none. Fascists and national socialists can and do abuse these two things with ease, and the second a competent front man arises - they will.
Congratulations, hopefully the short term profit was worth it.
68
Wait a second. The "Left" is not creating fascism, nor are poor people. That's a reaction by the rich against the idea of democracy. Powerful people wanting to consolidate their power, industries and corporations fighting for primacy and continuing prosperity, authoritarians and racists who fear the loss of power - that creates fascism.
It's truly wrong to accuse "the Left" of going after "short term profit." Isn't that more likely to be a goal of the corporate right? And exploitation of the poor isn't Leftist. The Left fights the exploitation of the poor and of the workers.
Sorry but here's the problem: oppression of labor, racism, xenophobia, entrenched powerful interests who refuse to change even in the face of reality, ie, the fossil fuels industry - the latter by itself is a major problem not only in the US, but in fact de facto controls governments or at a minimum, government policies all over the world.
If they need jackboots to keep their money, their power and their control do you think they'll hesitate?
World wars have been fought over oil resources.
Now listen to GOP rhetoric about climate change.
It's truly wrong to accuse "the Left" of going after "short term profit." Isn't that more likely to be a goal of the corporate right? And exploitation of the poor isn't Leftist. The Left fights the exploitation of the poor and of the workers.
Sorry but here's the problem: oppression of labor, racism, xenophobia, entrenched powerful interests who refuse to change even in the face of reality, ie, the fossil fuels industry - the latter by itself is a major problem not only in the US, but in fact de facto controls governments or at a minimum, government policies all over the world.
If they need jackboots to keep their money, their power and their control do you think they'll hesitate?
World wars have been fought over oil resources.
Now listen to GOP rhetoric about climate change.
2
"because you've created a race problem where previously there was none."
The race problem started in this country started with legal enslavement of Black Africans. It was subsequently made part of the national DNA when the Constitution setting up this country stated slaves only counted as 3/5ths of a free White man.
Racism is not a new problem in the US.
The race problem started in this country started with legal enslavement of Black Africans. It was subsequently made part of the national DNA when the Constitution setting up this country stated slaves only counted as 3/5ths of a free White man.
Racism is not a new problem in the US.
2
1,
14 Characteristics of Fascism -
1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
4. Supremacy of the Military Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.
5. Rampant Sexism The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.
14 Characteristics of Fascism -
1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
4. Supremacy of the Military Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.
5. Rampant Sexism The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.
5
President Trump would come closer to the definition of fascist than any former president. He would have no tolerance of our system of checks and balances and would treat the legislative and judicial branches with scorn and try to turn the presidency into an authoritarian autocracy by pressing his case to the American public that Congress and the courts are incompetent. That's his MO. Even if the Republican establishment manages to unseat him, he will go back on his verbal pledge and run as an independent, which would result in a cakewalk for Hillary in the general election. While all the Republican candidates say they would vote for Trump should he become the party's nominee, because "anyone is better than Hillary" I'd bet many would pull the lever for Hillary in the privacy of a voting booth. They view Trump as a cocky, self-absorbed independent, not as a fellow Republican.
2
Is Donald Trump a Fascist?
Short answer: he looks and acts a lot like one. And the millions of people who support him would like for him to become MORE like a fascist.
In his next column, Ross Douthat will answer the question, is Ted Cruz an anarchist?
Short answer: he looks and acts a lot like one. And the millions of people who support him would like for him to become MORE like a fascist.
In his next column, Ross Douthat will answer the question, is Ted Cruz an anarchist?
5
Of course Trump is a fascist, isn't that obvious? And so are most of the dozen or more trolls running for the Republican nomination for President as well as their funders and enablers.
Reread Umberto Eco's description of a fascist and you have a picture of the leaders of not only the Tea Party movement but also the Republican Party itself.
What makes Trump different is that he's a demagogue who has virulently promoted extreme nationalistic, xenophobic and racist falsehoods and stereotypes for years.
Remember his crusade to convince the gullible base of the Republican Party that President Obama is really a Muslim from Kenya, foreign born and thus ineligible to be President? That was just the beginning, and Trump will continue to churn out this poisonous nonsense because that's what narcissists - and fascists - do.
Reread Umberto Eco's description of a fascist and you have a picture of the leaders of not only the Tea Party movement but also the Republican Party itself.
What makes Trump different is that he's a demagogue who has virulently promoted extreme nationalistic, xenophobic and racist falsehoods and stereotypes for years.
Remember his crusade to convince the gullible base of the Republican Party that President Obama is really a Muslim from Kenya, foreign born and thus ineligible to be President? That was just the beginning, and Trump will continue to churn out this poisonous nonsense because that's what narcissists - and fascists - do.
4
Interesting. Ross is very clear with this paint-roller smear of Mr. Trump as a "fascist" yet we as a people face day-to-day life in a growing authoritarianism and little if any hope of restoring freedom. Our leaders, whomever they may actually are, tell us what health care system we must have or else, shove us towards one or two candidates they provide for our "choice", and for reasons only they understand insist that our country really needs huge and consequential demographic changes thanks to the removal of our borders. While all this is happening, our government monitors every word we say and compiles vast databases on each of us in the name of "security" and our police are nearly completely militarized, the better to keep those lists enforced.
Trump, on the other hand, isn't part of the sweeping hand of oppression we see happening all around us. Could it be that he isn't actually a fascist but a liberator?
Trump, on the other hand, isn't part of the sweeping hand of oppression we see happening all around us. Could it be that he isn't actually a fascist but a liberator?
2
Ted Cruz is loving the attention being paid to Trump's and Carson's chaff. They are his loss leaders, paving the way for him while he waits in the weeds. He's slowly rising up, presenting himself as a "reasonable" conservative alternative who has Washington experience but is not of Washington. He's a legit crypto-fascist and the one to really watch out for.
419
Well put rockboy.
The GOP field is like a deck of cards containing devious jokers. If Trump and Carson fold, the Cruz card will get dealt from the bottom.
The GOP field is like a deck of cards containing devious jokers. If Trump and Carson fold, the Cruz card will get dealt from the bottom.
Whether or not you call him a fascist, Trump sure does a great Mussolini imitation.
9
The photo illustrating this piece underlines a further similarity with the main 20th-century fascists: looking so ludicrous that people underestimate how dangerous he really is...
6
This article by Ross seems to me to be a cover for the other republican candidates. Since Trump is just saying out loud what they all think. He is just a ruder, cruder version of the rest of the field of republican candidates.
13
The cost of demagoguery to appeal to the baser instincts of the angriest among us is a political discourse dominated by those who can race the quickest to the bottom--Trump, Carson, Cruz. I know we like to think fascism cannot happen here, and it probably will not, but we all must remain vigilant to preserve our core democratic values.
4
Yesterday Edsall did a column on Trump and offered a variety of theories as to why he sits atop the Republican field of contenders. Today Douthat has added his column analyzing Trump.
The reason why Trump is leading the field is that Americans love a hero who swoops down and save the day or dame. American culture is very individualistic and therefore the notion of a Lone Ranger riding into town and ridding it of all evil people is found to be very appealing. And in the eyes of his supporters Trump is that Lone Ranger.
But is he a fascist? He has all the tendencies to be one and if he were to win in the general election and become POTUS, there is more than an even chance that he will have to have strong dictatorial, if not fascist, tendencies to govern. That is the man, that is his style.
The reason why Trump is leading the field is that Americans love a hero who swoops down and save the day or dame. American culture is very individualistic and therefore the notion of a Lone Ranger riding into town and ridding it of all evil people is found to be very appealing. And in the eyes of his supporters Trump is that Lone Ranger.
But is he a fascist? He has all the tendencies to be one and if he were to win in the general election and become POTUS, there is more than an even chance that he will have to have strong dictatorial, if not fascist, tendencies to govern. That is the man, that is his style.
6
If Trump is a fascist then Obama and George W. are too.
What a load of nonsense.
Almost every politician and political movement holds some similarity with fascism.
And I love this aspect of fascism: that Trump is appealing to the interests of lower middle income people. The horror. Doesnt he know those people are supposed to be ignored?
Comparing Trump to fascists does a disservice to the tens of millions of victims of the fascists. They targeted people based on their race, ethnicity and religion.
Trump, to me, is complaining about criminals.
What a load of nonsense.
Almost every politician and political movement holds some similarity with fascism.
And I love this aspect of fascism: that Trump is appealing to the interests of lower middle income people. The horror. Doesnt he know those people are supposed to be ignored?
Comparing Trump to fascists does a disservice to the tens of millions of victims of the fascists. They targeted people based on their race, ethnicity and religion.
Trump, to me, is complaining about criminals.
2
Trump clearly appeals to a large number of Republicans, but his numbers are still around 25-30%.
When the primaries begin, and the 2, 3 and 4 percenters start dropping out, where will their support go? How deeply does Trump's appeal go?
I pretend to myself that most Republicans can see through this modern-day carnival barker, but I really have no idea how today's Republican thinks. This is especially odd, since I once was a Republican.
When the primaries begin, and the 2, 3 and 4 percenters start dropping out, where will their support go? How deeply does Trump's appeal go?
I pretend to myself that most Republicans can see through this modern-day carnival barker, but I really have no idea how today's Republican thinks. This is especially odd, since I once was a Republican.
5
Answer: Yes he is.
And he's a megalomaniac
And he's a megalomaniac
3
I doubt Trump knows what Fascism is, however, the seeds of fascism are present in American society because the soil is ripe. America's lower middle class has been blocked from sharing in America's riches.
Bernie Sanders appeals to them one way, socialist liberal.
The Donald in another way, something that looks like Fascism.
Radicals are produced by radical dislocations in society. The Billionaire class gave us our radicals by undermining democracy with their wealth and manipulating government to work for their interests alone.
We will either create a fair economic system once again or continue to create radicals of varying "isms" until one takes root.
Bernie Sanders appeals to them one way, socialist liberal.
The Donald in another way, something that looks like Fascism.
Radicals are produced by radical dislocations in society. The Billionaire class gave us our radicals by undermining democracy with their wealth and manipulating government to work for their interests alone.
We will either create a fair economic system once again or continue to create radicals of varying "isms" until one takes root.
11
Ross I think you left something very important out. Most fascist movements in recent history have sent it around a cult of personality. Whether it's Mussolini or Hitler or Peron, the movement is more about the power concentrated in the leader than any power filtering down to the masses.
So in that sense yes, Trump could be considered a fascist given the fact his movement is so trumps centered. And also explains The adoration of his supporters who are less involved with specifics and more engaged emotionally. They want things to work and Trump insists he will make them work for their benefit--no matter what it is, from bombing Isis to ridding America of immigrants.
When I envision a Trump presidency I just can't see how it would work. Someone who is used to being in total charge would chafe at the separation of powers, The checks and balances of Congress, and the like.
When Trump talks about all the things he will get done, they are based on his ability to have total power. Our system of governance no matter how obstructed cannot be easily pushed aside for the type of absolute power Trump is used to having.
things could get very ugly very fast, which is why I think in the end Donald will not be the nominee. may drop out after the first couple of primaries.
So in that sense yes, Trump could be considered a fascist given the fact his movement is so trumps centered. And also explains The adoration of his supporters who are less involved with specifics and more engaged emotionally. They want things to work and Trump insists he will make them work for their benefit--no matter what it is, from bombing Isis to ridding America of immigrants.
When I envision a Trump presidency I just can't see how it would work. Someone who is used to being in total charge would chafe at the separation of powers, The checks and balances of Congress, and the like.
When Trump talks about all the things he will get done, they are based on his ability to have total power. Our system of governance no matter how obstructed cannot be easily pushed aside for the type of absolute power Trump is used to having.
things could get very ugly very fast, which is why I think in the end Donald will not be the nominee. may drop out after the first couple of primaries.
17
Donald Trump is not running for President; he is running for king! And his politics are inherited from his father, who was in the Klan.
4
Well, thank you, Ross Douthat, for bringing up the rarely used term "proto-fascist." That describes a number of Tea Party governors elected in 2010, including Wisconsin's Scott Walker. As for Trump? Let's call him a proto-fascist for now. Given the power, he and all the others at that end of the spectrum would bloom into the real thing.
4
"[P]recisely because Trump doesn’t have many of the core commitments that have tended to inoculate conservatives against fascism, it’s still quite likely that the Republican Party is inoculated against him. His lack of any real religious faith, his un-libertarian style and record, his clear disdain for the ideas that motivate many of the most engaged Republicans . . . should make it awfully difficult for him to get to 40 or 50 percent."
I would not be so sanguine about Republicans being inoculated against fascism.
Let me remind Mr Douthat of the point David Brooks recently made about Republican politicians. The "vast" majority can't say in public what they know to be the truth "because they’re afraid the thought police will knock on their door and drag them off to an AM radio interrogation." Mr Brooks was discussing climate change, but there is little reason to believe that current Republican leaders who are so willing to squelch one known truth actually have the "core commitments" to which Mr Douthat refers. Or if they do, their core commitments are heavily tempered by opportunism and covering up unwelcome truths. Those are two qualities they share with Mr Trump. And those may well be qualities that favor the fascism of a man who purports to offer rabid strength in a time of insecurity.
I would not be so sanguine about Republicans being inoculated against fascism.
Let me remind Mr Douthat of the point David Brooks recently made about Republican politicians. The "vast" majority can't say in public what they know to be the truth "because they’re afraid the thought police will knock on their door and drag them off to an AM radio interrogation." Mr Brooks was discussing climate change, but there is little reason to believe that current Republican leaders who are so willing to squelch one known truth actually have the "core commitments" to which Mr Douthat refers. Or if they do, their core commitments are heavily tempered by opportunism and covering up unwelcome truths. Those are two qualities they share with Mr Trump. And those may well be qualities that favor the fascism of a man who purports to offer rabid strength in a time of insecurity.
5
Always wondered how Mussolini and Hitler could brainwash so many people and with such ease, thanks to Trump now I know.
4
We are living in an important moment. The fear more moderate Republicans have of Trump as a loose cannon that threatens what we hold dear exactly mirrors left of center fears of current Republicans as a whole. If the not-crazy right could get that, we'd be on the way to dialogue. We don't just dislike current Republicans or want to impose a liberal agenda or force veryone to become either gay or afeminist, but we are literally frightened to the core of our beings at what an unblocked 21st century Republican agenda might do to this country.
3
Where to begin?
The GOP has DJ Trump blare out a fascist, xenophobic, and insulting message that is NOT attacked even as he actually bullies groups who aren't part of the 'tribe.' This gives it cred with the xenophobic base, ensuring they show up at the polls. Then it decides to pivot away after the message has been delivered. Will now try to roast DJ Trump publicly. Then the anointed eventual nominee can distance himself (it won't be Carly if this is the theory).
In my book you don't get to do that. Countenancing months of this vitriol within your organization makes you rotten from the inside.
Secondly, I suspect the author of this opinion is just as likely to have taken marching orders from "a few Republican insiders" to deal with the question of fascism. Sorry, that's how the timing and even that paragraph about the establishment, makes it sound.
The GOP has DJ Trump blare out a fascist, xenophobic, and insulting message that is NOT attacked even as he actually bullies groups who aren't part of the 'tribe.' This gives it cred with the xenophobic base, ensuring they show up at the polls. Then it decides to pivot away after the message has been delivered. Will now try to roast DJ Trump publicly. Then the anointed eventual nominee can distance himself (it won't be Carly if this is the theory).
In my book you don't get to do that. Countenancing months of this vitriol within your organization makes you rotten from the inside.
Secondly, I suspect the author of this opinion is just as likely to have taken marching orders from "a few Republican insiders" to deal with the question of fascism. Sorry, that's how the timing and even that paragraph about the establishment, makes it sound.
3
Mr. Douthat writes that the Republican Party is ultimately very likely "inoculated" against Trump. Why? According to Douthat, it essentially boils down to the fact that Trump isn't really a True Believer.
But as a progressive, Trump's lack of True Believer credentials is exactly why I find him a little less frightening than the rest of the Republican field.
All of the other candidates really are drinking the Kool-aid.
I see Trump as a "firewall" protecting the country from the far more dangerous prospect of a President Cruz or Rubio.
I would like to believe that the Democratic candidate will prevail. Unfortunately, if terrorism becomes an overriding concern in this country, there is a possibility that the longing for a Big Strong Daddy to protect us will overwhelm our better angels.
Mr. Trump is obviously offensive, but coming from the business world, there is reason to hope he would govern as a pragmatist. The same cannot be said of any of the other current front runners for the Republican nomination.
As an American, I mostly just pray that the level of fear and resentment don't continue to escalate over the next year, but I have a sinking feeling that fear and resentment might be moving to the center of the stage.
But as a progressive, Trump's lack of True Believer credentials is exactly why I find him a little less frightening than the rest of the Republican field.
All of the other candidates really are drinking the Kool-aid.
I see Trump as a "firewall" protecting the country from the far more dangerous prospect of a President Cruz or Rubio.
I would like to believe that the Democratic candidate will prevail. Unfortunately, if terrorism becomes an overriding concern in this country, there is a possibility that the longing for a Big Strong Daddy to protect us will overwhelm our better angels.
Mr. Trump is obviously offensive, but coming from the business world, there is reason to hope he would govern as a pragmatist. The same cannot be said of any of the other current front runners for the Republican nomination.
As an American, I mostly just pray that the level of fear and resentment don't continue to escalate over the next year, but I have a sinking feeling that fear and resentment might be moving to the center of the stage.
3
Trump a Fascist?
Yes....and a Liar and a Bigot....and yet, a quarter of the GOP base thinks he's fit to be President. And now we see the Republican leadership telling other candidates to 'emulate' his actions and rhetoric.
Never again will I support the GOP. Not in word or deed, if this is the new normal of the Republicans.
Yes....and a Liar and a Bigot....and yet, a quarter of the GOP base thinks he's fit to be President. And now we see the Republican leadership telling other candidates to 'emulate' his actions and rhetoric.
Never again will I support the GOP. Not in word or deed, if this is the new normal of the Republicans.
6
Ross, the best thing for you to do is to announce that you'll never support this beast under any circumstances, that tens of millions of people agree with you and that if Trump is nominated the Republicans are buried. But noooo.
7
Mr. Douthat believes Trump does not rise to a level that warrants attacking him as a "bouffant-haired Hitler". True, but that does not mean he shouldn't be called out as a fascist. Equating fascism only with Hitler misunderstands it, and in its hyperbole risks underestimating its insidious danger to a free society.
Making sure that Trump never has a point misses the point. He doesn't need one. As Eco said of Mussolini, He "..did not have any philosophy: he had only rhetoric. "
Ur-fascist, crypto-fascist, proto-fascist: a fascist is a fascist. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...
Making sure that Trump never has a point misses the point. He doesn't need one. As Eco said of Mussolini, He "..did not have any philosophy: he had only rhetoric. "
Ur-fascist, crypto-fascist, proto-fascist: a fascist is a fascist. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...
302
Indeed. Is being "a little fascistic" like being "a little pregnant?"
Not to worry, if we want to resist a Fascist President Trump, or if we want to goosestep in time with him -- either way, we'll be amply armed, thanks to the Second Amendment and the principled work of the NRA.
35
Mr. Trump does not have the mastery of oratory that Hitler had. (His stump speeches haven't changed much other than the occasional ad lib insults.). And he will not make the trains run on time like Mussolini.
He is no more fascist than the Wizard of Oz, a snake oil salesman who found a believing audience. For the Trump true believers, there will come the moment when they see the Wizard for what he is - a mere mortal who has managed his popularity and persona quite well. Maybe they will seek the next Wizard. Or maybe they will become citizens who realize that the power to change Washington lies in informed action and not in fake Wizards.
He is no more fascist than the Wizard of Oz, a snake oil salesman who found a believing audience. For the Trump true believers, there will come the moment when they see the Wizard for what he is - a mere mortal who has managed his popularity and persona quite well. Maybe they will seek the next Wizard. Or maybe they will become citizens who realize that the power to change Washington lies in informed action and not in fake Wizards.
29
Well written, Rita. Thank you.
1
Ahhh, the chickens have finally come home to roost, Mr. Douthat.
First you list the "seven of the hallmarks of fascism identified by the Italian polymath Umberto Eco." Then you say they include: a cult of action, a celebration of aggressive masculinity, an intolerance of criticism, a fear of difference and outsiders, a pitch to the frustrations of the lower middle class, an intense nationalism and resentment at national humiliation, and a “popular elitism” that promises every citizen that they’re part of “the best people of the world.”
Remember these?:
Shock and awe
Dead or alive
You're with us or against us
Unpatriotic (the people against the Iraq invasion)
The Patriot Act
Take America back (who are they taking America back from, I wonder?)
American exceptionalism
Face it, Donald Trump is republicanism on steroids.
He's not a fascist, he's a Republican.
First you list the "seven of the hallmarks of fascism identified by the Italian polymath Umberto Eco." Then you say they include: a cult of action, a celebration of aggressive masculinity, an intolerance of criticism, a fear of difference and outsiders, a pitch to the frustrations of the lower middle class, an intense nationalism and resentment at national humiliation, and a “popular elitism” that promises every citizen that they’re part of “the best people of the world.”
Remember these?:
Shock and awe
Dead or alive
You're with us or against us
Unpatriotic (the people against the Iraq invasion)
The Patriot Act
Take America back (who are they taking America back from, I wonder?)
American exceptionalism
Face it, Donald Trump is republicanism on steroids.
He's not a fascist, he's a Republican.
277
the answer is
BOTH
A confederate phony conservative republican in name only race baiter, true, not a Lincoln or Eisenhower or even Goldwater or Nixon republican, who are all either extinct or in hiding lest they anger the fascist base, for what is a fascist leader without a base that believes in creationism, Obama being a kenyan muslim sociaist, and that global warming and the fed are just conspiracies?
BOTH
A confederate phony conservative republican in name only race baiter, true, not a Lincoln or Eisenhower or even Goldwater or Nixon republican, who are all either extinct or in hiding lest they anger the fascist base, for what is a fascist leader without a base that believes in creationism, Obama being a kenyan muslim sociaist, and that global warming and the fed are just conspiracies?
17
Why can't he be both?
2
Amen.
Call Trump fascist, racist, sexist, bigot or whatever, GOP just has to come to the term that Trump is most likely to win in many primaries and very likely to become the next nominee for the Republican Party. Douthat's piece is trying to have his and his fellow Republicans' heads prepare for this reality. Instead of bashing Trump and pointing to the fact that Trump is unfit for the presidency, he began to want to acclimate himself to the possibility of a Trump presidency. I agree that GP should not go into panic mode, YET. After all they still have more than a month or two to go before the first primaries. But the problem is I don't see anyone other than Cruz to take over. President Trump or President Cruz, that is a hard choice.......And I'm loving it!
14
Good try. He's a Republican candidate. He's supported by Republicans. He's echoing themes that have been at the center of Republican rhetoric--attacks on immigrants, resentment of non-Christians, ultra-natioanalism, miltiarism, paper thin (and inaccurate) racial-coding about those receiving social services. And yet, you argue that libertarianism and Christianity are the *antidotes* to fascism. This is laughable. He is taking the Republican script and amplifying it. And it fits quite well into the fascist model.
The most amusing thing is when you try to imply that the real reason Trump is a fascist is that he lacks real conservative commitments--with the subtle twist that maybe he's secretly a social welfarist at heart. Right. It is social welfare programs that are the key to fascism.
This hairsplitting is absurd. If he gets irregular violence to intimidate the groups he is fomenting hate toward, it's not fascism? He needs 'the actual fascist move' of a paramilitary?
And he's un-libertarian. How does libertarianism of the Republican right inoculate against fascism again? The Republic right's libertarianism says nothing about social freedom. In fact, they are dead set against sexual and personal freedoms. There's nothing inherently non-fascist about rejecting social welfare even if this was not the primary goal of your typical 1930s fascist. A celebration of war, a celebration of individualism and a murderous hatred of those deemed unworthy is more than enough.
The most amusing thing is when you try to imply that the real reason Trump is a fascist is that he lacks real conservative commitments--with the subtle twist that maybe he's secretly a social welfarist at heart. Right. It is social welfare programs that are the key to fascism.
This hairsplitting is absurd. If he gets irregular violence to intimidate the groups he is fomenting hate toward, it's not fascism? He needs 'the actual fascist move' of a paramilitary?
And he's un-libertarian. How does libertarianism of the Republican right inoculate against fascism again? The Republic right's libertarianism says nothing about social freedom. In fact, they are dead set against sexual and personal freedoms. There's nothing inherently non-fascist about rejecting social welfare even if this was not the primary goal of your typical 1930s fascist. A celebration of war, a celebration of individualism and a murderous hatred of those deemed unworthy is more than enough.
26
Me think Ross doth protest too much. Or at least over intellectualizes the case to the point of using the term "proto" to modify fascist. Not be be trite but the "walks like a duck, quacks like a duck" yarn comes to mind. What was both pitiful and disturbing was his litmus tests for 'what makes a card carrying Republican' and his proof by contradiction of the past wackos. Please note, Perot ran as an independent, so he fails the card carrying test right up front. What I find contradictory in his means testing is the libertarian qualifier. The quality GOP candidate doesn't really like "free markets", they like rigged markets that give them "freedom" to abuse the market. A true libertarian would never hang out with the likes of a Paul Ryan. They might rent them, but they won't claim them. Please note, the true libertarian worships money, not god, a truly anti ethical quality of the religious set. And besides, a true Christian could never swing with a libertarian, greed isn't good, at least in Christs world view. Ok, my point, Ross has run out of topics with meaning to write about. Nobody wants to hear the Vatican Times schtick anymore. He's done, stick a fork in him.
24
A truly iconic picture with the column. So reminiscent of "Il Duce" at his peak. I didn't know "The Donald"did Mussolini impressions,but the hair just isn't right and Trump has to practice mutely standing arms akimbo, lifting his jaw, and staring off into space.("mutely"may not work).
9
>
Well I don't know if he is a fascist or not, but since you broached the subject, if he is, he should feel at home in the GOP.
Most people due to Hitler's anti-semitism, associate fascism with concentration camps........., but fascism can and does exist without them.
Fascism's major components are discipline, belief in hierarchical power, nationalism, the glorification of the soldier, the military, and war, sometime the importance of genes but not always....... Sound like anything you've seen?
Well I don't know if he is a fascist or not, but since you broached the subject, if he is, he should feel at home in the GOP.
Most people due to Hitler's anti-semitism, associate fascism with concentration camps........., but fascism can and does exist without them.
Fascism's major components are discipline, belief in hierarchical power, nationalism, the glorification of the soldier, the military, and war, sometime the importance of genes but not always....... Sound like anything you've seen?
23
Jmho...i dont think fascism is the right term ..
Demagogue is the word that seems to fit best.
Angry white Americans want to be mollified...to be told that they are right and that the country will bend to their will regardless of any democratic process ....
ergo Phrases like "the right to life trumps all other rights".
Demagogue is the word that seems to fit best.
Angry white Americans want to be mollified...to be told that they are right and that the country will bend to their will regardless of any democratic process ....
ergo Phrases like "the right to life trumps all other rights".
11
I disagree that we should wait until he wins a primary before Trump is branded a fascist. Winning a primary will give his brand and his policies respectability. Remember Hitler was elected.
27
Sad to say, your statement that there is an 'absence' of fascism in American politics, there were significant fascist movements in the 1930s through the 1950s. That their proponents (e.g. Huey Long, Douglas MacArthur), Joe McCarthy) did not gain the presidency does not mean they were unimportant nor lacking in influence on policy nor on large swathes of the American electorate.
The southern strategy of Nixon and the code (e.g. states rights) that they use in order to not be explicitly racist has led the Republican party to policies that are, yes, fascistic, not conservative.
The southern strategy of Nixon and the code (e.g. states rights) that they use in order to not be explicitly racist has led the Republican party to policies that are, yes, fascistic, not conservative.
34
"Not so Trump: ... and he’s delighted with a hyperactive state so long as it’s working hand-in-glove with corporate interests."
Sounds like your garden variety Republican and your Clinton-era Republican-Lite Democrat.
Can it be? Dothan beginning to feel the Bern.
Sounds like your garden variety Republican and your Clinton-era Republican-Lite Democrat.
Can it be? Dothan beginning to feel the Bern.
7
I REALLY DON'T KNOW, BUT . . .
...his behaviors are surely suggestive of it!
...his behaviors are surely suggestive of it!
5
Terrific column, once again, by the much despised "religious conservative" Mr. Douthat. There is real insight into Ross' observation of the Donald. Trump does recognize what's been wrong about American leadership. And while he does offer up a few grass ideas he much more frequently identifies problems with current GOP and Democrat leadership and policies. These that have generally been ignored but have had great negative consequence on middle income Americans.
Those who don't agree with Trump argue that this is exploitation of the angry - in other words - Fascistic. Sure - as if the Democrats haven't done similar for decades, and the HRC campaign now.
Those who don't agree with Trump argue that this is exploitation of the angry - in other words - Fascistic. Sure - as if the Democrats haven't done similar for decades, and the HRC campaign now.
4
This is establishment wishful thinking.
Trump only reflects what majority of (white) Americans, not just Republicans, think and feel in their most intimate conversations with themselves: the elites are stupid and their actions are destroying this country; religious zealots of all stripes are silly and should be only be lightly tolerated; with so many people jobless, what the heck are we doing importing labor? and political correctness is a waste of energy - people need to say what they think.
Trump only reflects what majority of (white) Americans, not just Republicans, think and feel in their most intimate conversations with themselves: the elites are stupid and their actions are destroying this country; religious zealots of all stripes are silly and should be only be lightly tolerated; with so many people jobless, what the heck are we doing importing labor? and political correctness is a waste of energy - people need to say what they think.
8
The labor that we need is exactly what we are importing. The rest are of us are toast!........if, and until we regain a firm grip on corporatism and capitalism, and realign these pseudo-religions to once again become the tools rather than the rulers of human destiny.
1
Sure say what you believe but considering Trump has not reveal a single workable policy, people just seem to be accepting his unicorns in the sky vision of the future
It is instructive to read the manifesto of Jobik, the Hungarian fascist movement. Trumpism to a T(ea).
14
Ross, have you read a history book lately? Hitler was democratically elected. Kristallnacht came five years later.
You say Trump is "still several degrees of ugly away from the actual fascist move", but then mention only the BLM example. How about the assault on the Hispanic man in Boston? How about the assaults at his other rallies? Trump is not stupid. He kind of distances himself from these acts now, but less so with each repetition. What do you think a rally when he is president would look like?
When Hitler marched into Vienna, 1/4 of the population turned out to see him. The Nazis were never a majority in Austria or in Germany. Trump doesn't need a majority of Trumpists, he just needs 50.1% of Americans to vote him into power.
Which brings my final point. "tarring [Trump] supporters with the brush of Mussolini and Der Führer right now seems like a shortsighted step — a way to repress the problem rather than dealing with it". Hogwash. This false choice is insultingly stupid. There is no reason why we can't do both: call a fascist a fascist AND deal with the reasons Trump is resonating. But no Republicans are offering any solutions to help the working- and middle-class, so your suggestion is really to just do nothing.
Doing nothing now after 30 years of taking from the working- and middle-class for the 1% will only feed justifiable anger and fear of the future. A populace driven by anger and fear looks for a "strong" leader to save them. It IS already dangerous.
You say Trump is "still several degrees of ugly away from the actual fascist move", but then mention only the BLM example. How about the assault on the Hispanic man in Boston? How about the assaults at his other rallies? Trump is not stupid. He kind of distances himself from these acts now, but less so with each repetition. What do you think a rally when he is president would look like?
When Hitler marched into Vienna, 1/4 of the population turned out to see him. The Nazis were never a majority in Austria or in Germany. Trump doesn't need a majority of Trumpists, he just needs 50.1% of Americans to vote him into power.
Which brings my final point. "tarring [Trump] supporters with the brush of Mussolini and Der Führer right now seems like a shortsighted step — a way to repress the problem rather than dealing with it". Hogwash. This false choice is insultingly stupid. There is no reason why we can't do both: call a fascist a fascist AND deal with the reasons Trump is resonating. But no Republicans are offering any solutions to help the working- and middle-class, so your suggestion is really to just do nothing.
Doing nothing now after 30 years of taking from the working- and middle-class for the 1% will only feed justifiable anger and fear of the future. A populace driven by anger and fear looks for a "strong" leader to save them. It IS already dangerous.
107
Standing ovation!
1
Did you just call Ann Coulter an intellectual?
123
"Right wing intellectual". That's my new favorite oxymoron.
@ comp
Oh. Yes. He. Did.
Oh. Yes. He. Did.
Can it happen here ? Of course it can. What you left out, Ross, is the emergence of a corporatist state, where human rights, which popular democracy celebrates, are subordinate to corporate interests.
Citizens United v. FEC has energized this movement, and the average citizen is hard pressed to contend with the flood of lies and misinformation that flows from such an incredibly poor decision.
'Can it ?' is the wrong question. It's happening before our eyes. The question is, 'how far will it go?'
Citizens United v. FEC has energized this movement, and the average citizen is hard pressed to contend with the flood of lies and misinformation that flows from such an incredibly poor decision.
'Can it ?' is the wrong question. It's happening before our eyes. The question is, 'how far will it go?'
88
If you take a look at the nomination process in the Republican part, especially all of the winner take all primaries starting March 15, it is becoming more likely that Trump will accumulate the necessary delegates to win the Republican nomination, or come very close, simply because he will be the leading candidate, even if his support never goes above the 25-30% he has now.
That will cause the Republican establishment to make a choice. Are they really willing to see Trump as their nominee? Or are they prepared to deny him the nomination at the Convention (assuming he is the leader but still lacks a majority) Either way, they lose.
As a candidate of their party, odds are they lose the election and the Senate and even conceivably, but not likely, the House. If they deny him the nomination, his supporters are likely to feel betrayed. Their support for the Republican nominee will not happen. While unlikely to vote Democratic, especially for Clinton, their more likely to not vote at all. This would also give the Presidency to Clinton and cost the Republicans the Senate, which could happen anyway, and in that scenario, more likely lose the House.
It looks like Republican Party, if it doesn't close out Trump soon, it staring at disaster come the Fall. Oh well, we can always dream.
That will cause the Republican establishment to make a choice. Are they really willing to see Trump as their nominee? Or are they prepared to deny him the nomination at the Convention (assuming he is the leader but still lacks a majority) Either way, they lose.
As a candidate of their party, odds are they lose the election and the Senate and even conceivably, but not likely, the House. If they deny him the nomination, his supporters are likely to feel betrayed. Their support for the Republican nominee will not happen. While unlikely to vote Democratic, especially for Clinton, their more likely to not vote at all. This would also give the Presidency to Clinton and cost the Republicans the Senate, which could happen anyway, and in that scenario, more likely lose the House.
It looks like Republican Party, if it doesn't close out Trump soon, it staring at disaster come the Fall. Oh well, we can always dream.
20
Too late Mr. Douthat. When the intellectuals on the right call anyone to left of Cruz a "communist", how bad can it be to call someone a fascist?
46
Trump is a bully, pure and simple. Bullies are cowards. Go read up on Jesse Ventura's stint as governor of MN. Thin-skinned as he could be.
16
I would give you more credence in this critique if you had done such a thorough job of vetting the current resident of 1600 Pennsylvania. This President is an avowed fan of Sol Olinsky, determined to remake our country in Olinsky's scarred vision.
Oh but that wouldn't fit the 'correct' narrative, would it?
Oh but that wouldn't fit the 'correct' narrative, would it?
3
its Saul Alinsky
1
Faux gave you the wrong spelling for your perceived demon.
2
That you don't know it's "Saul Alinsky" shows you probably don't know what you are talking about.
4
A good and interesting column. Several years ago I published an article that mentioned, in passing, that the Tea Party was a proto-fascist movement. There are real libertarians in the Tea Party, but also people who give lip service to aspects of libertarianism, while actually believing in an America for whites only. The racism is usually kept under wraps or muted, but occasionally it bursts forth at rallies and such.
Trump is not a fascist, but he is a proto-fascist. There is a significant minority of the population -- particularly the white population -- that is drawn toward the ideology of fascism, as outlined in this piece. How big this minority grows, and whether if it ever reaches majority status, depends on the US economy. Prosperity buys off extremism. If the economy ever again sinks to 1930s levels, then watch out. We already have widening income disparity, which breeds resentment. There is also a great deal of cynicism and disgust with the dishonesty and corruption of the political class, and resentment toward that class for not responding to perceived crises such as illegal immigration. We are living in a tinderbox, and another collapse like 2008 will set the nation ablaze.
Trump is not a fascist, but he is a proto-fascist. There is a significant minority of the population -- particularly the white population -- that is drawn toward the ideology of fascism, as outlined in this piece. How big this minority grows, and whether if it ever reaches majority status, depends on the US economy. Prosperity buys off extremism. If the economy ever again sinks to 1930s levels, then watch out. We already have widening income disparity, which breeds resentment. There is also a great deal of cynicism and disgust with the dishonesty and corruption of the political class, and resentment toward that class for not responding to perceived crises such as illegal immigration. We are living in a tinderbox, and another collapse like 2008 will set the nation ablaze.
234
Fascist? Maybe not. But bully with a personality cult and megalomania -- certainly. Anti-democratic -- yes. His disdain for politics, politicians, law and democratic processes is palpable. If he gets his own brown shirted corps of thugs we might then know him as fascist (perhaps his goons would wear gold tinted threads). Although Trump may aspire to be an authoritarian despot, for the moment, he appears to be our Silvio Berlusconi, a rich lout trying to hijack a country.
419
Characterizing liberals as routinely labeling Republican presidents as "fascists" is false and insulting. I hear that far less in my liberal circles than I hear"socialist/communist" thrown around indiscriminately by those who don't know what they mean.
98
Looking forward to the column that says it is now time to panic.
362
He is rather a nut ! Simply, don't take him serious and DON'T vote for him.
5
Mr. Douthout is too sanguine. It will not take a revolution in Republican thinking to make Trump viable, it will take just one more significant economic downturn. Germans dismissed Hitler and his ilk as a bad joke until the depression hit. That said, I don't disagree about the need to address the underlying problems that are fueling Trump rather than (just) tagging him with an ugly, but accurate, label.
24
No, but he is good at flim-flam. Trump gives America what it wants; a false hope that the rest of the world is not catching up. We are no longer the last country standing after World War II and we sense our grip on the world is loosening. The last war we won was in 1983 with our invasion of the tiny island/country of Grenada. We lost the wars in Vietnam and Korea.
From 1945 until the 1980’s we were the king of the hill called the world. The rest of the industrialized/modern world was destroyed and had to rebuild and we helped them do it. In today's world we have competition and it is going to get even more intense. China and other nations are biting at our heals. The average American is not used to seeing other nations competing with us both militarily and economically. China is the most obvious competitor. We are getting paranoid over losing our grip on the world.
Those supporting Trump hope he can make us king again because of his bravado and business acumen. Those supporting him for this reason forget that he inherited much of his wealth and has not increased it any greater than the usual stock averages.
The country collectively needs to see a psychiatrist. It is not that the United States is getting poorer. It is the remainder of the world is catching up and Trump is not going to change things. Reality needs to be faced and we should be patting ourselves on our backs for helping the rest of the globe.
Trump is not going to slow down the world outside the U.S.
From 1945 until the 1980’s we were the king of the hill called the world. The rest of the industrialized/modern world was destroyed and had to rebuild and we helped them do it. In today's world we have competition and it is going to get even more intense. China and other nations are biting at our heals. The average American is not used to seeing other nations competing with us both militarily and economically. China is the most obvious competitor. We are getting paranoid over losing our grip on the world.
Those supporting Trump hope he can make us king again because of his bravado and business acumen. Those supporting him for this reason forget that he inherited much of his wealth and has not increased it any greater than the usual stock averages.
The country collectively needs to see a psychiatrist. It is not that the United States is getting poorer. It is the remainder of the world is catching up and Trump is not going to change things. Reality needs to be faced and we should be patting ourselves on our backs for helping the rest of the globe.
Trump is not going to slow down the world outside the U.S.
23
Douthat makes the predictable mistake of theorizing Trump, a narcissistic dilettante whose mind and motives are too incoherent to be called fascistic or even inchoate. He has no vision for the country, because that's not why he's running. Trump simply wants to win the Mr. American President 2016 Pageant and show off his new tiara (even if Telemundo won't broadcast it).
The man is hiding in plain sight. Since he has nothing of import to communicate, his campaign speeches began as detailed recitations of the latest polls, until his numbers started to drop. Now all he has left is his stand-up routine, which includes mocking the disabled, because ha ha--cripples are funny, amirite folks? Amirite?
Trump is cashing in on his appeal to the uneducated, tinfoil hat, god-guns-and-gays bigots--that is, the Republican base, who demand that the only qualification a nominee requires is to be utterly unqualified, and anyone who points this out is a member of the elite liberal press who scorns Real Americans.
Luckily, the current crop of Republican candidates is so repulsive to the sane general public voter that they've given the presidency to Clinton. But make no mistake: you've have a close call. However, I did enjoy Douthat's oxymoronic reference to "far-right intellectuals," a species that went extinct with the death of William F. Buckley.
The man is hiding in plain sight. Since he has nothing of import to communicate, his campaign speeches began as detailed recitations of the latest polls, until his numbers started to drop. Now all he has left is his stand-up routine, which includes mocking the disabled, because ha ha--cripples are funny, amirite folks? Amirite?
Trump is cashing in on his appeal to the uneducated, tinfoil hat, god-guns-and-gays bigots--that is, the Republican base, who demand that the only qualification a nominee requires is to be utterly unqualified, and anyone who points this out is a member of the elite liberal press who scorns Real Americans.
Luckily, the current crop of Republican candidates is so repulsive to the sane general public voter that they've given the presidency to Clinton. But make no mistake: you've have a close call. However, I did enjoy Douthat's oxymoronic reference to "far-right intellectuals," a species that went extinct with the death of William F. Buckley.
35
don't mix up personality disorders with politics; it demeans both and gives us false comfort that those whom we find disturbing or unacceptable (in this correctly) are "that way" because of certain personality characteristics. It saves us from thinking more deeply as to why so many find Trump attractive and acceptable
6
Some of Trump's physical mannerisms mirror those of the first fascist leader, Mussolini. His habit of jutting his head forward with pursed lips, while nodding, after he has delivered a zinger, would almost earn him a call back from any director casting an actor for the part of the Italian dictator. But the question remains as to whether such traits, combined with the values and political positions identified by Douthat, qualify Trump as Hitler or Mussolini's heir.
I doubt it. Both Hitler and Mussolini sought to overturn the established order, from which they had derived few benefits and no status. They used the elite but clearly did not identify with its members. While Mussolini cared far more for the material spoils of office than did Hitler, neither man defined himself in terms of his wealth.
Trump, on the other hand, constantly brags about his business successes, which he touts as his chief qualification for office. He heaps contempt on politicians but identifies with other business leaders. Such a man has deep roots in the capitalist system, which sustains his lifestyle and affirms his self image.
Trump's respect for the law is instrumental, its value based on how it affects him and his ambitions. Thus, his administration might prove to be the most dishonest since Nixon's, but he would have no reason to undermine an entire political and legal system which facilitated his success. Absent such an intention, his fascism remains primarily verbal.
I doubt it. Both Hitler and Mussolini sought to overturn the established order, from which they had derived few benefits and no status. They used the elite but clearly did not identify with its members. While Mussolini cared far more for the material spoils of office than did Hitler, neither man defined himself in terms of his wealth.
Trump, on the other hand, constantly brags about his business successes, which he touts as his chief qualification for office. He heaps contempt on politicians but identifies with other business leaders. Such a man has deep roots in the capitalist system, which sustains his lifestyle and affirms his self image.
Trump's respect for the law is instrumental, its value based on how it affects him and his ambitions. Thus, his administration might prove to be the most dishonest since Nixon's, but he would have no reason to undermine an entire political and legal system which facilitated his success. Absent such an intention, his fascism remains primarily verbal.
7
He's a carbon copy of Berlusconi.
In answer to his question, "Is Donald Trump A Fascist?," Mr Douthat writes
"he's closer to the protofascist zone" and "may indeed be a little fascistic."
Is this like being "a little bit pregnant?"
"he's closer to the protofascist zone" and "may indeed be a little fascistic."
Is this like being "a little bit pregnant?"
42
What's the difference between Trump and a 2-year-old?
(a) A 2-year-old doesn't have a diploma from Bettern U.
(b) A 2-year-old can be given a time-out.
(c) A 2-year-old will eventually learn to play nice with others.
(d) A 2-year-old won't always be a 2-year-old.
(a) A 2-year-old doesn't have a diploma from Bettern U.
(b) A 2-year-old can be given a time-out.
(c) A 2-year-old will eventually learn to play nice with others.
(d) A 2-year-old won't always be a 2-year-old.
28
Mr. Douthat, you seem to be missing the link between authoritarianism and fascism. Authoritarianism is the paved road to any system where a single person wields all the levers of power. The Republican party is certainly an authoritarian party. Trump has simply ripped off the ideological band-aid Republicans use to cover their true motives. States rights is just a salve to cover their hatred of anyone in power who doesn't think exactly like them. If the state government doesn't do what they want, they want stronger municipal government, and so on and so on. Their hatred of the Federal government is not a love of small government, but rather a hatred of anyone who might be more powerful than them, but surely is not as smart. Trump is not an outlier in the Republican party. Rather, he is a mirror.
27
As usual, I don't recognize Douthat's description of liberals. I am certainly not a Republican but I haven't in the past equated Republicans with facism. I do, however, equate several of the current Republican presidential candidates and many of their state and local politicians with those who push Facist rhetoric. I see the Republican Party politicians as a group of fearful demagogues. Their claims of Christianity are at odds with true Christianity. They attack the mote in the eyes of others while ignoring the beam in their own eyes. They are like the Pharisees in their love of "the law" while ignoring the calls of Jesus to love thy neighbors as themselves. Their use of hate speech also belies their claim to Christianity. They are crude in their speech (see Ted Cruz's comments on birth control!). They equate shouting their lies as telling the truth. They label their rudeness as being against "political correctness." My parents taught me that it isn't prudent to say whatever comes to mind without running it through a filter. It's called good manners. There are no perfect candidates and never have been but I'll take my chances with politicians who can mainain a professional manner while remaining calm and logical.
185
Katherine, you perfectly stated what I'm thinking.
1
Great comment - taking down Douthat like that.
2
Not only that, Trump did not even repudiate the KKK's endorsement. He knows who his constituency is.
46
What is more frightening is that those that are doing well in the Republican field surely do display more than a few fascist traits. This is because of the Republican base, whose Tea Party core (also funded by some corporate interests and supported by a myriad of interest groups) is fertile ground for both extreme fascist rhetoric and potential action as defined by Eco.
This means, that for the current decade or so, a Republican will have a difficult time winning his/her primary without appealing to the Tea Party and their Christian fundamentalist allies. This dynamic works well for Republicans in the House who only appear responsible to those more extreme elements in their districts (especially in the South and West), but it is also means that, for the present time anyway, a Republican presidential candidate cannot win a general election. So, we will be stuck with a Democratic President, a Republican House, and a revolving majority Senate that will serve the national interest as well as those who were first elected in 2010. That is to say, not at all.
As Lewis Sinclair mentioned in a book that Ross cited, "when fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Trump has the flag part down, others have the cross. What happens when they come together?