The statement regarding "no more body parts" was revealed by a high level Police Department official. It was made, he said, during what was a rambling interview. This disclosure was an official leak. It was designed to educate the public regarding Dear's purpose. The reference to body parts is certainly suggestive. But it is clearly the best extract of Dear's statement leaked to suggest a rational purpose. If Dear had been explicit about abortions or Planned Parenthood, you can be sure that that would have been leaked instead. The somewhat ambiguous disclosure along with the description of the interview as rambling is a message from the police designed to temper any sense that Dear spoke rationally about a well-defined purpose. If the police aren't convinced that Dear is rational, mental health experts are likely to conclude that he is irrational. The real message from the police is that Dear seems pretty crazy, so that those who want to run with the anti-abortion motive are likely to find that, in the end, their view is speculative at best.
I can not see how anyone can argue that life does not begin at conception. Every single human being currently inhabiting the planet life began the moment they were conceived . I believe that . I also believe that abortion is murder. I also believe that all life is precious . Therefore what this shooter has done is equally as evil as the act of abortion. Both are to be condemned. I believe that is what most on the "pro life" side of the argument believe to be the truth . To take this one nut job and hold him up as some kind of example as to what pro lifers believe is simply dishonest.
More people are hurt or killed under the influence of drugs or alcohol while driving than guns in America. If a person walks into a school or a church and kills people with a gun that is national news. When a person kills a bus load of children coming back from a church camp because of being high or drunk that is just a blip on the radar if at all. Alcohol and drugs kill more people in America every year than an idiot with a gun ever has and not only behind the wheel. Every year over a million people are stopped by police impaired by drugs while driving a vehicle and that does NOT include drunk drivers. The facts don't lie and I for one am sick of "GUNS" being DEMONIZED in America by liberal Democrats and Media.
1
What I would like to see is a "truce" where
pro-choicers (and the SC) agree that fetuses (aka babies) after the first trimester shall immune from abortion (unless there is a SERIOUS health issue)
and in return
b) pro-lifers leave abortion clinics and women seeking abortions in them alone, even treat them with respect.
But is such a truce possible in America where the two sides are so polarized and unwilling to listen to the other side?
pro-choicers (and the SC) agree that fetuses (aka babies) after the first trimester shall immune from abortion (unless there is a SERIOUS health issue)
and in return
b) pro-lifers leave abortion clinics and women seeking abortions in them alone, even treat them with respect.
But is such a truce possible in America where the two sides are so polarized and unwilling to listen to the other side?
1
Is it just coincidence that mass murderers are very often associated with religion as an excuse? Christian or otherwise?
2
Another article talks of how GOP candidates were quiet this weekend, having seen the carnage brought on by some maniac acting out on all the "baby parts" talk. It has made picking on women and PP less appetizing, so "conservative" candidates have laid down the incendiary talk for a couple of days. It is sickeningly cynical.
There are at least 6 kids now with a parent murdered by this guy. I doubt they ever think about who gets to really pay for the luxury of all this hateful talk of theirs.
There are at least 6 kids now with a parent murdered by this guy. I doubt they ever think about who gets to really pay for the luxury of all this hateful talk of theirs.
11
Kay, before spinning out of the galaxy you should at least wait for the article which asks why Mr. Dear did not get adequate mental health coverage. It may help your underlying cause.
1
The Declaration of Independence states we are endowed by our creator with certain unalienable rights including life, and also states that governments are established to secure those rights. As such, Robert Dear's actions were immoral and criminal and the government should prosecute him for depriving others of life and take all constitutional means to secure and protect others lives. I defy you to find conservatives or republicans that disagree with these statements. If you can they are rare and fringe. But I ask liberal democrats a few questions. 1) Do you agree with these statements in the Declration of Independence? 2) Who was your mother pregnant with 5 months before you were born? 3) When do you feel your creator endowed you with your unalienable rights? 4) And when therefore do you believe governments should have begun securing your right to life? And for opponents of my pro-life position, which statement above is the dangerous religious fanatical one? The belief in the DOI? The belief that my mother was pregnant with me 5 months before my birth? Or the belief that governments have a moral obligation to protect my and others life throughout that life? Do you really not see how reasonable people can have legitimate issue with the abortions performed at PP, and the callous dispersal of their dismembered parts? And again which of the above statements do you believe incite violence???
If the words ‘Preferred to Be Left Alone’ appear in the title of the article it means that there's nothing serious to report about the murderer.
3
In a world awash with guns, calling people who use them for the purpose for which they were designed and purchased "crazy" or "terrorists" is just getting annoying. Stop it. There is no reason to refer to Mr. Dear as anything other than a person spurred to action by presidential candidate Fiorina. In the light of what has been presented in the media and by those who would be our leaders, he was acting in a perfectly justifiable manner.
1
Thank you but I will not be voting for any of the "her" candidates, anyway, forever.
1
An insane person with a gun, in a country with insane gun laws.
6
"Robert Dear" is what happens when an unstable individual is fed an steady stream of hate from ostensibly honorable "news " sources like Fox news, as well as your average republican politician.
In this case the " Reliable Right", has focused its latest domestic venomous obsession on Planned Parenthood, to encourage one of its illustrious supporters to act out some of its hate. Interesting to see how quickly Cruz et al. have tried to distance themselves from the very acts they so strongly encourage with their typical rhetoric.
Ultimately, the American people will have to decide when they have had enough of the irresponsible behavior of public officials who seem to encourage violence in every manner, from the uncontrolled distribution of weapons to to the relentless rhetoric which appears to encourage incidents like this.
When the people have had enough, they will vote for candidates who seek to unite us not divide us. Until then, looks like we have plenty more punishment in store for us.
In this case the " Reliable Right", has focused its latest domestic venomous obsession on Planned Parenthood, to encourage one of its illustrious supporters to act out some of its hate. Interesting to see how quickly Cruz et al. have tried to distance themselves from the very acts they so strongly encourage with their typical rhetoric.
Ultimately, the American people will have to decide when they have had enough of the irresponsible behavior of public officials who seem to encourage violence in every manner, from the uncontrolled distribution of weapons to to the relentless rhetoric which appears to encourage incidents like this.
When the people have had enough, they will vote for candidates who seek to unite us not divide us. Until then, looks like we have plenty more punishment in store for us.
9
In the UK and in Australia, folks have a right to privacy enshrined in statute but no constitutional right to bear arms.
In the Land of the Free, by contrast, there is no explicitly stated right to privacy in the Constitution (the decisions of SCOTUS of implied rights to privacy notwithstanding [1]). There is, of course, the Second Amendment that talks specifically about the right of the people to bear arms.
The consequence of the Second is that SCOTUS has decided that, with certain exceptions such as full-automatic firearms and sawn-off shotguns, permanent resident adults in the USA without a felony conviction can own pretty much any firearm and ammunition they can physically carry.
Which is of the greater fundamental importance to the principle of Liberty - the right to privacy or the right to bear arms? Guns may assist the oppressed in fighting back against the oppressor but guns also allow the armed oppressor to take away the liberty of others. How does a right to personal privacy allow such infringements upon others? It does not.
Fundamentally, the Land of the Free is not so free after all, and all the guns in the world and all the rhetoric about the right to bear arms does not change that one iota.
1) http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/rightofprivacy.html
In the Land of the Free, by contrast, there is no explicitly stated right to privacy in the Constitution (the decisions of SCOTUS of implied rights to privacy notwithstanding [1]). There is, of course, the Second Amendment that talks specifically about the right of the people to bear arms.
The consequence of the Second is that SCOTUS has decided that, with certain exceptions such as full-automatic firearms and sawn-off shotguns, permanent resident adults in the USA without a felony conviction can own pretty much any firearm and ammunition they can physically carry.
Which is of the greater fundamental importance to the principle of Liberty - the right to privacy or the right to bear arms? Guns may assist the oppressed in fighting back against the oppressor but guns also allow the armed oppressor to take away the liberty of others. How does a right to personal privacy allow such infringements upon others? It does not.
Fundamentally, the Land of the Free is not so free after all, and all the guns in the world and all the rhetoric about the right to bear arms does not change that one iota.
1) http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/rightofprivacy.html
6
Guns and bibles are the weapons of Christian crusaders and no different from the guns and Koran of Islamic Jihadists... right in the middle and all over the USA. Scary! What's next? A bombing campaign in the US?
14
Interesting, back in 2014, when there was so much anti-police rhetoric, and then demonstrations against the police that turned violent, and then NYPD Officers Liu and Ramos were assassinated, all the liberals who supported the anti-police protests claimed that the shootings had nothing to do with them.
The shooter was deranged, they said. He wasn't even from here; he came from Maryland. We liberals can't be held to blame. Move on, nothing to see here.
Ah, but now that the shoe is on the other foot, the liberals are singing a different tune. It's all the fault of conservatives, who have created an "atmosphere of hate."
You see, liberals believe that they are such wonderful people that they can't possibly create an atmosphere of hate. Only the bad conservatives can do that.
Frankly, I think it's disgraceful how Planned Parenthood, supported by the liberal media, is trying to use this terrible incident to give itself immunity from criticism for things it does that are wrong, or that at least should be subject of debate about whether they are right or wrong.
That's the main purpose of the First Amendment, to allow for vigorous debate on important public questions. I hope that this incident won't stifle that debate.
The shooter was deranged, they said. He wasn't even from here; he came from Maryland. We liberals can't be held to blame. Move on, nothing to see here.
Ah, but now that the shoe is on the other foot, the liberals are singing a different tune. It's all the fault of conservatives, who have created an "atmosphere of hate."
You see, liberals believe that they are such wonderful people that they can't possibly create an atmosphere of hate. Only the bad conservatives can do that.
Frankly, I think it's disgraceful how Planned Parenthood, supported by the liberal media, is trying to use this terrible incident to give itself immunity from criticism for things it does that are wrong, or that at least should be subject of debate about whether they are right or wrong.
That's the main purpose of the First Amendment, to allow for vigorous debate on important public questions. I hope that this incident won't stifle that debate.
3
Go look at the rhetoric of Carly Fiorina, Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, Mike Huckabee, John Boehner, Mitch McConnell concerning PP. Calling it irresponsible and incendiary is being impossibly kind to these folks. You nailed it with your phrase, "creating an atmosphere of hate".
3
Dear NRA,
Thank you for providing weapons of war to an insane individual once again.
Most Americans understand that your mother will once again comfort you, that it was indeed not your fault.
Rest well NRA. There is a place in the depths of hell waiting for all work work for gun lobbiest.
Thank you for providing weapons of war to an insane individual once again.
Most Americans understand that your mother will once again comfort you, that it was indeed not your fault.
Rest well NRA. There is a place in the depths of hell waiting for all work work for gun lobbiest.
7
Carly Fiorina in the Republican debate incited to murder. She is to blame for the carnage in Colorado.
12
This is exactly what happened when a video made by an American, republican, christian extremist caused Muslims extremists around the world to attack American embassies. Then of course they blamed Hillary Clinton for the deaths republicans caused.
When will Christians finally speak out about the extremists in their party? Why don't we hear anything from the christian conmen who are making millions every year ginning up the crazies?
When will Christians finally speak out about the extremists in their party? Why don't we hear anything from the christian conmen who are making millions every year ginning up the crazies?
10
Crazy anti-social men feel very powerful walking our streets w/their assault weapons slung over their shoulders. Some want to bring them into our movie theaters in case another James Holmes shows up. So they can "protect" us.
Alas - there will be more shootings in our fair city.
Alas - there will be more shootings in our fair city.
8
OK will somebody just pull the plug on Mike Huckabee. He cannot even acknowledge that the violence inflicted by a guy parroting propaganda exactly like his own towards our community here in Colorado is an inappropriate response to 3 people getting murdered - the killer muttering about "baby parts".
His inflammatory speech about "millions of babies" being killed at PP is just the kind of nasty, hyped up visuals and rhetoric that get crazy people going should make him ineligible for any office, much less President. All these people should be called on these extremist tactics. Every time.
His inflammatory speech about "millions of babies" being killed at PP is just the kind of nasty, hyped up visuals and rhetoric that get crazy people going should make him ineligible for any office, much less President. All these people should be called on these extremist tactics. Every time.
12
I already make regular donations to Planned Parenthood but after reading all the nonsensical comments from the forced birthers here, I went online and made a $200.00 donation. Thank you Planned Parenthood for all the good you do for women!
20
Moira,
I made a $200 donation to my pro-life group yesterday so mine cancels out yours. I make regular ones as they do great work assisting young girls who are in dire straits and who want to have their babies. Some are adopted and others are raised by family members. These courageous women chose life.
I made a $200 donation to my pro-life group yesterday so mine cancels out yours. I make regular ones as they do great work assisting young girls who are in dire straits and who want to have their babies. Some are adopted and others are raised by family members. These courageous women chose life.
2
KMW: that is the point. That women get to choose what they want for their own families. Your choice is no better than Moira's in America. And your group does not get to encourage anyone to kill others who do not make the same choice as you.
9
Good for them. They made their CHOICE. That's what it's all about KMW - CHOICE.
10
Folks, the world over, people think of Americans as gun crazy. Hollywood has always projected Americans as the gun toting white cowboy beating back the native Americans. The rest of the world has become so accustomed to hearing gun deaths in America that they think elementary, middle and high schools, movie theatres, cafeteria, college campuses, even places of worship (where black folks congregate) are not safe anymore. Those tourists who plan to visit America better write their wills before they come to this gun loving country.
7
Indeed Petey, excellent comment. Note to all overseas tourists that buying, renting or even borrowing any firearm while you are visiting any one of the fifty USA states to protect yourself on the streets or in your hotel room against all the armed crazies is effectively impossible to do legally.
If you're an overseas visitor, and you want access to a handgun, shotgun or rifle and ammunition while visiting the USA, then you have to bring in temporarily from overseas your own legally owned firearm for sporting purposes and apply for a local hunting or competition permit. This won't give you the right, of course, to protect yourself away from the hunting or competition zone.
Now, just where in the Second does it spell out that the right of the people to keep and bear Arms excludes all non-permanent US residents?
If you're an overseas visitor, and you want access to a handgun, shotgun or rifle and ammunition while visiting the USA, then you have to bring in temporarily from overseas your own legally owned firearm for sporting purposes and apply for a local hunting or competition permit. This won't give you the right, of course, to protect yourself away from the hunting or competition zone.
Now, just where in the Second does it spell out that the right of the people to keep and bear Arms excludes all non-permanent US residents?
2
Robert Dear is a terrorist in the true sense of the word. He isn't a member of ISIS but no matter. He represents the issue that America should be focusing on to defeat. Our biggest fear shouldn't be Syrian refugees coming to America or any other refugees coming to America. It is guns getting into the hands of people like Robert Dear that we need to fear most. 33,000 people a year in America are killed by guns. Yes, 33,000! The NRA is the terrorist organization that America should be dealing with, not ISIS. Please, can't we find a way to pass reasonable gun laws that help put an end to this terrorism?
13
Terrorist organizations are powerful and well funded, NRA is no exception.
6
This is the type of person who should be denied the right to own a gun. He had threatened people in the past and had a patter of bizarre behavior. His criminal record was well documented.
5
"No more baby parts." And, that video and testimony was a lie, a fabrication, to discredit Planned Parenthood. How many more "pretty poorly adjusted guy(s)" are there out there that might be motivated by the big lies. Three people dead at least partly attributable to that big lie. Someone needs to be held accountable for the fraud.
9
Right. We need to have restrictions on harmful speech, namely most conservative political ideas, especially criticism of abortion. College campuses have already been at the forefront of this, starting movements to suppress most conservative political speech on campus or in the classroom. Now we need the force of law behind this. First, the IRS can suppress the speech of any organization that opposes the policies of a fairly elected Democratic president (by challenging their tax-exempt status). Next, we can consider jailing Republican congressmen who block the President's agenda by refusing to vote for this policies. China and Russia have already shown the way to a more efficient form of government. Why not here?
1
Huh? I was commenting on the fraud perpetuated by an edited and doctored video presented as evidence to discredit Planned Parenthood. I don't know what you are commenting on here. Free speech--that's good and is protected. The IRS is responsible for regulating tax exempt statuses and do so as policy and by regulation. Women's rights to abortion was secured by the Supreme Court in Roe v. Wade. Congress is responsible for regulating those rights through legislation. Oh, wait. Are you saying that shooting and killing people because you disagree with them is free speech?
4
And yes, this kind of thing can often be stopped or at least lessened with universal background checks, no exceptions, and universal licensure.
The guys (and they are ALWAYS) guys who do this show very clear behavioral patterns, includng a number of brushes with the law. They show very poor social skills. They typically live alone, or isolate themselves within their home and community. They very commonly express rage, and violent thinking. They are typically associated with some kind of near-fanatical belief system: the Bible, or a political ideology, or video games.
And they own, or go buy, one or more assault rifles, or handguns with high-capacity magazines, plus a whale of a lot of ammo and military paraphernalia.
They do everything but stroll down the street firing randomly into the air while carrying a sign that says "I AM GONNA SHOOT A BUNCHA PEOPLE," and after they do what a child could tell you they were probably gonna do, we stand around and wail about how hard it is to predict human behavior.
Oh, well. When we finally have seen enough shot-up kids and health clnics and churches, maybe we'll get around to doing the obvious: universal background checks, at least considering locensire, reinstate the assault weapons ban or reauire special licensure for ownng one, go take these lunatics' guns away.
The guys (and they are ALWAYS) guys who do this show very clear behavioral patterns, includng a number of brushes with the law. They show very poor social skills. They typically live alone, or isolate themselves within their home and community. They very commonly express rage, and violent thinking. They are typically associated with some kind of near-fanatical belief system: the Bible, or a political ideology, or video games.
And they own, or go buy, one or more assault rifles, or handguns with high-capacity magazines, plus a whale of a lot of ammo and military paraphernalia.
They do everything but stroll down the street firing randomly into the air while carrying a sign that says "I AM GONNA SHOOT A BUNCHA PEOPLE," and after they do what a child could tell you they were probably gonna do, we stand around and wail about how hard it is to predict human behavior.
Oh, well. When we finally have seen enough shot-up kids and health clnics and churches, maybe we'll get around to doing the obvious: universal background checks, at least considering locensire, reinstate the assault weapons ban or reauire special licensure for ownng one, go take these lunatics' guns away.
5
Why all the hand-wringing about the "why did he do it" and the vague official remarks of being concerned about his mental health, the search for excuses for his actions.
The man is a cop killing murderous thug. He seemed to be pretty coherent if his remarks about Obama, abortions and baby parts are true. He went to place that he felt was funded by Obama, performed abortions and sold baby parts (maybe he saw Carly's video). So committing mass murder at PP makes perfect sense to him, if on the other he shot up a Walmart or Burger King or Movie theatre and THEN made the same rambling remarks then he might be incapable of rational thought.
I don;t care about his manifesto or what a nice guy he used to be, other than the number of victims how is he different than Abdelhamid Abaaoud?
The man is a cop killing murderous thug. He seemed to be pretty coherent if his remarks about Obama, abortions and baby parts are true. He went to place that he felt was funded by Obama, performed abortions and sold baby parts (maybe he saw Carly's video). So committing mass murder at PP makes perfect sense to him, if on the other he shot up a Walmart or Burger King or Movie theatre and THEN made the same rambling remarks then he might be incapable of rational thought.
I don;t care about his manifesto or what a nice guy he used to be, other than the number of victims how is he different than Abdelhamid Abaaoud?
2
There's nothing wrong with being very very private at all! The problem: Too many people like MR Dear who are soooo Mentally Unstable that if there was a Psychological exam to own any weapons at least 25% of the " Gun owners" would be deemed " Psychologically Unqualified"! Once again the NRA( National Rifle Association) and the Republicans are part of the problem NOT the solution. There should be " oral/ written psychological exams" to own any weapon" period. Way too many MENTALLY UNSTABLE/ CONVICTED FELONS out there who should NOT own any weapons period! As long as the gun laws remain lax( especially in the sun belt states) these deadly shootings will continue! Owning a gun is a privilege NOT a right( like a drivers license). A person must be deemed " Mentally fit" to own ANY type of weapon period!!!!!
4
From an article in Washington Post:
"Dear did nothing that seemed unusual to Anderson, and while he said he did not see Dear with a gun, many people in the area own weapons. “Out here, everybody has a gun,” Anderson said. “There are bears and mountain lions.”
"Dear did nothing that seemed unusual to Anderson, and while he said he did not see Dear with a gun, many people in the area own weapons. “Out here, everybody has a gun,” Anderson said. “There are bears and mountain lions.”
2
Waiting for the New York Times to do the definitive article (with videos) comparing law enforcement shooting deaths like Colorado, with massacre of soldiers by terrorists, school shootings, citizen on citizen gun victimizations, as well as law enforcement race issues like Ferguson, Freddie Gray and Walter Scott case. Ask the public what is wrong with this picture of senseless deaths in every situation - it is not just race that fragments society and creates opportunities for radicalization processes to take hold. The nation's reason, rationale and values are bent toward bullying and hatred in stark contrast to the American framework.
What does Ferguson have in common with the Colorado shooting? Again, trying to squeeze your racial agenda in everything. Before it was Cecil the lion, ISIS, bombing of MSF hospital, now it's the Colorado clinic. It's becomes already utterly shameless.
4
Come now, areader... its right there in front of us: white, (R) male privilege. We're the scourge of all of society; the reason for all its failures.
3
There should be a ban on the sales of assault rifles to civilians and any weapons without background checks for criminal history and mental illness. Among the developed world, only the US allows such sales. The majority of these mass murder incidents are caused by these weapons. Isn't this obvious ? Politicians from both parties should pass legislation to advance gun safety. The US is at war with itself whereby innocent civilians can be shot dead going about their daily lives, at shopping centers, at churches, in schools and colleges, or at the movies. People should probably as well invest in bullet proof vests and military helmets for the whole family, if everyone is allowed to carry a weapon. When is this insanity going to stop ?
3
He "preferred to be left alone," but he obviously did not believe that OTHER people had a right to be left alone.
7
It is too easy to say he was mentally deranged.
ISIS commanders are mentally deranged using the same standard of performing acts of extraordinary violence and evil.
A more accurate description for such people are violent fanatical terrorists.
You find such in Christian and Muslim religions and more around the world.
They have abandoned reason and peaceful coexistence, and the very tenants of their religion, in fanatical support of their cause.
Yes, you can say his actions show he is mentally disturbed just as any terrorist is mentally disturbed on some level.
But just calling it mental illness is a mistake.
Political extremists around the world - and in this country - are calling these fanatical zealots to arms - and they are listening.
The politicians who call them have blood on their hands.
ISIS commanders are mentally deranged using the same standard of performing acts of extraordinary violence and evil.
A more accurate description for such people are violent fanatical terrorists.
You find such in Christian and Muslim religions and more around the world.
They have abandoned reason and peaceful coexistence, and the very tenants of their religion, in fanatical support of their cause.
Yes, you can say his actions show he is mentally disturbed just as any terrorist is mentally disturbed on some level.
But just calling it mental illness is a mistake.
Political extremists around the world - and in this country - are calling these fanatical zealots to arms - and they are listening.
The politicians who call them have blood on their hands.
13
Here is an outline of what look for and ask for from your politicians in gun laws:
1. Require background checks at all sales locations – not just at stores but at gun shows, in gun show parking lots, private sales, etc.
2. Require obligatory reporting of all gun sales including private sales with legal/criminal repercussions for failing to do so.
3. Require licensing with safety training & testing required with mandatory liability insurance for each gun with yearly renewals - just like driving licenses.
4. Loss of those licenses and privileges for serious infractions - having your guns taken away if you are found liable for "careless use" such as leaving loaded weapons around for children to pick up - unfortunately it may be after the fact such as in the cases where young children have killed other children or parents accidentally but at least it is a step in the right direction, or if you are found to be a "straw purchaser" buying for someone else who would not have passed the criteria for obtaining a license.
5. Make parents or the gun owner liable for children or others getting their hands on the owned guns and shooting someone. It is the responsibility of the gun owner to make sure his/her guns are secure.
6. Require presentation of both the license and liability insurance for the purchase of both guns and ammo.
1. Require background checks at all sales locations – not just at stores but at gun shows, in gun show parking lots, private sales, etc.
2. Require obligatory reporting of all gun sales including private sales with legal/criminal repercussions for failing to do so.
3. Require licensing with safety training & testing required with mandatory liability insurance for each gun with yearly renewals - just like driving licenses.
4. Loss of those licenses and privileges for serious infractions - having your guns taken away if you are found liable for "careless use" such as leaving loaded weapons around for children to pick up - unfortunately it may be after the fact such as in the cases where young children have killed other children or parents accidentally but at least it is a step in the right direction, or if you are found to be a "straw purchaser" buying for someone else who would not have passed the criteria for obtaining a license.
5. Make parents or the gun owner liable for children or others getting their hands on the owned guns and shooting someone. It is the responsibility of the gun owner to make sure his/her guns are secure.
6. Require presentation of both the license and liability insurance for the purchase of both guns and ammo.
10
Excellent start. I would add:
7. Psychological screening/testing if anyone who wants to buy a gun, with regular follow testing. (People like Robert Dear can seem normal at one point in their life but deteriorate over time).
7. Psychological screening/testing if anyone who wants to buy a gun, with regular follow testing. (People like Robert Dear can seem normal at one point in their life but deteriorate over time).
1
7. Maintain a national registration on all gun and ammo purchases with the ability to investigate unusual or large purchases through designed algorithms to catch outliers .
8. Require mandatory reporting of all stolen guns within 24 hours with legal/criminal repercussions for failing to do so.
9. Confiscate weapons of all those convicted of domestic violence or felonies and not permitting licensing for them in the future.
10. No conceal carry or open carry unless there is a definitive and crucial reason demonstrating that the person is under high risk due to their job but then only with the proper training, certification, licensing and insurance.
11. Require mental health background checks in order to obtain a license to purchase as suicide and homicide rates jump dramatically when there are guns available within a household. Require a medical doctor’s certification, understanding that people can recover from some mental disorders, as to the viable safety or not of an applicant.
12. Trigger locks required on all guns when not in legal use with civil/criminal repercussions for failure to do so.
13. Create a Federal “buy back” program as an incentive to reduce the physical number of guns already out there. Yes, it is voluntary but it is a beginning and had a very successful effect in Australia.
The right to own a gun should not come at the expense of the safety of other citizens going about their daily activities.
8. Require mandatory reporting of all stolen guns within 24 hours with legal/criminal repercussions for failing to do so.
9. Confiscate weapons of all those convicted of domestic violence or felonies and not permitting licensing for them in the future.
10. No conceal carry or open carry unless there is a definitive and crucial reason demonstrating that the person is under high risk due to their job but then only with the proper training, certification, licensing and insurance.
11. Require mental health background checks in order to obtain a license to purchase as suicide and homicide rates jump dramatically when there are guns available within a household. Require a medical doctor’s certification, understanding that people can recover from some mental disorders, as to the viable safety or not of an applicant.
12. Trigger locks required on all guns when not in legal use with civil/criminal repercussions for failure to do so.
13. Create a Federal “buy back” program as an incentive to reduce the physical number of guns already out there. Yes, it is voluntary but it is a beginning and had a very successful effect in Australia.
The right to own a gun should not come at the expense of the safety of other citizens going about their daily activities.
1
Clearly this is an act of terrorism. Not only must we ask the question of how do we keep guns from the mentally ill, but also, how do we keep guns from the hands of terrorists, domestic or otherwise?
9
It's pathetic that we have Christians killing other Christians over
abortion. It makes you wonder what Jesus would think of all this. I wonder what these GOP zealots thinks about that. Which side of Christ are they on?
abortion. It makes you wonder what Jesus would think of all this. I wonder what these GOP zealots thinks about that. Which side of Christ are they on?
8
Today, many politicians from both political parties repeat the mantra that we need to ask why this is happening with increasing frequency, and what we can do to keep guns out of the hands of people with dangerous psychological conditions. But Mr Dear's case reminds us that people change over time. When he purchased his first gun, many years ago, he probably displayed no sign of mental disorder, and there was no reason to deny him a gun. That being the case, without a national registry, how can people in Colorado know that a gun purchased by a legitimate buyer in South Carolina decades ago was now in their state, and in the hands of a person whose mental state had changed to the point of derangement?
1
"He kept guns around the house for personal protection and hunting..."
Turns out it was us who needed protection from Mr Dear the other way around, and that his hunting targets, in the end, included people. And let's not forget that up to the moment he commenced firing at people, he was one of those law abiding gun owners we hear about all the time - as have been so many of these mass shooters.
It's not Mr Dear's mental condition that is dangerous to us - we have as much if not more to fear from angry and frightened people as we do from those with mental issues, assuming Mr Dear has such. It is his easy access to firearms that is the problem and the fact that, once he has them, it is difficult if not impossible to confiscate them no matter how erratic or troubling his behaviour to those who know him.
Turns out it was us who needed protection from Mr Dear the other way around, and that his hunting targets, in the end, included people. And let's not forget that up to the moment he commenced firing at people, he was one of those law abiding gun owners we hear about all the time - as have been so many of these mass shooters.
It's not Mr Dear's mental condition that is dangerous to us - we have as much if not more to fear from angry and frightened people as we do from those with mental issues, assuming Mr Dear has such. It is his easy access to firearms that is the problem and the fact that, once he has them, it is difficult if not impossible to confiscate them no matter how erratic or troubling his behaviour to those who know him.
4
I recall when Dr Tiller was killed, one, Bill O Reilly was whipping up the crowd. I am sure that he never had a moment of remorse. Nor will Carly Fiorina, Cruz or Huckabee. They have more in common with jihadis than the Syrian refugees that they want to keep out of the country. I do think that Wayne LaPierre and his anxiety disorder appreciate chaos. It's good for the merchants of death. It is very disturbing when the media and many commenters referred to unarmed teenagers as "thugs" and the murderer is referred to as a troubled loner. It sounds as if he had advantages in life, a college education, a family, a profession, and he blew it because he is a total loser, not mentally ill. I suggest that many of the mentally ill struggle mightily to be productive and good citizens, and we should not lump them with this creep.
20
Too bad Ben Carson wasn't there to rush the gunman.
25
He would've pointed at someone else and said, "That's who you want, there."
14
This man fits the description (minus the s/m stuff-maybe?) of a significant proportion of the people in the area where I currently reside. It is the same demographic that the times reported on
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/03/health/death-rates-rising-for-middle-a...
People will rush to condemn this man as yet another fluke, a mentally disabled person with serious psychiatric problems, shifting light away from the real problem, easy access to assault weapons.
In reality, the only thing which stands between a mass shootings and public safety is solid gun control legislation.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/03/health/death-rates-rising-for-middle-a...
People will rush to condemn this man as yet another fluke, a mentally disabled person with serious psychiatric problems, shifting light away from the real problem, easy access to assault weapons.
In reality, the only thing which stands between a mass shootings and public safety is solid gun control legislation.
12
Another violent sap who gives a bad name to those of us who cherish solitude now and again.
Red O. Greene, Albuquerque, NM, USA
Red O. Greene, Albuquerque, NM, USA
3
This would be a good time to affirm and support the importance of Planned Parenthood in our nation by making a donation.
23
I'm thinking also for donations to the Southern Poverty Law Center which tracks hate groups including those of domestic terrorists.
8
Particularly after Ben Carson said on CNN today that 'agencies of the government' classify the Family Research Council as a 'terrorist' organization - unquestioned by the 'journalist' - when the fool meant the FRC has been classified as hate group by the SPLC.
3
I am sure I am not the first commentator, not will I be the last, to point out that the over-the-top rhetoric of the extreme right in the US is, in part, to blame for this violence. The extreme right always wants to be able to incite violence in its cause, then deny it did so. However, it is simply true that if a group (ISIS or the extreme right in the US) spouts off violent rhetoric long enough and loud enough, that there will be violent people who will act on the rhetoric. Period. They cannot avoid their culpability.
Let's be clear–it is not a bunch of vegan lefties killing people in the name of vegetables. It is Fox News spouting righties killing people in the name of whatever right-wing conspiracy theory Fox News and the extreme right is pushing this week.
Let's be clear–it is not a bunch of vegan lefties killing people in the name of vegetables. It is Fox News spouting righties killing people in the name of whatever right-wing conspiracy theory Fox News and the extreme right is pushing this week.
21
Many who have commented in this newspaper seem to be tarring all Christians with the same brush. They throw the word Christian around with the same disdain that the far right people who foolishly believe that all Muslims are terrorists throw the word Muslim around.
For the record, yes, many denominations have denounced violence against abortion clinics and providers. Not just recently, but for decades.
In 1988 the Episopal Church took a legislative action to "Condemn Acts of Violence Against Abortion Facilities and Their Clients."
The Final Text reads as follows:
Resolved. The 69th General Convention of the Episcopal Church condemn all actions of violence against abortion clinics; and be it further
Resolved, That this Convention deplore any acts of violence against those persons seeking the services available at such clinics.
For the record, yes, many denominations have denounced violence against abortion clinics and providers. Not just recently, but for decades.
In 1988 the Episopal Church took a legislative action to "Condemn Acts of Violence Against Abortion Facilities and Their Clients."
The Final Text reads as follows:
Resolved. The 69th General Convention of the Episcopal Church condemn all actions of violence against abortion clinics; and be it further
Resolved, That this Convention deplore any acts of violence against those persons seeking the services available at such clinics.
7
It hurts doesn't it when people paint everyone with the same brush? You can very well imagine how Muslims feel and how Jews felt in the past....something is seriously wrong with Abrahamic siblings.
2
Kind of like how many Republicans paint all Muslims with the same brush ("they're all terrorists ").
2
Yes Eric, that's exactly the point. It's not okay for anyone to do this.
1
If he was such a loner, who gave him the anti-Obama propaganda he was passing out? Did he have a printer? Or did he go to meetings of some sort, meetings w/ a hate group that used him to target Planned Parenthood? These are questions the police/ FBI are hopefully investigating. The religious right knows that people like this unstable, angry white man are willing tools, easily manipulated to do their bidding, i.e., carry out an agenda of intimidation, coercion, oppression and murder. Prosecute and execute him as a terrorist and a hate criminal. He is another Timothy McVeigh.
12
.
.
As an American citizen, this man certainly had the right to shoot birds and to teach his son to do so.
And even after it became clear that he was sinking into mental/emotional illness, I suppose he still had the right to keep and bear swords.
But having now read a bit about him, I cannot comprehend why organized groups have fought so hard, for so long, to protect his "right" to own a lot of ammunition.
.
As an American citizen, this man certainly had the right to shoot birds and to teach his son to do so.
And even after it became clear that he was sinking into mental/emotional illness, I suppose he still had the right to keep and bear swords.
But having now read a bit about him, I cannot comprehend why organized groups have fought so hard, for so long, to protect his "right" to own a lot of ammunition.
12
A Mother Jones article reports NINE-FOLD uptick in violence against women's health provider Planned Parenthood since JULY of this year.
Carly Fiorina is whining that "blaming the messenger" is not OK. If the messenger is delivering lies, then it is high time they got held accountable for creating the dangerous environment they are pushing on the American public by letting crazy people act out their lies for them.
Carly Fiorina is whining that "blaming the messenger" is not OK. If the messenger is delivering lies, then it is high time they got held accountable for creating the dangerous environment they are pushing on the American public by letting crazy people act out their lies for them.
24
If you look at the latest article on this tragedy, by Southall, and you see the first picture of church members with heads bowed - you have to hope and realize that the good people in this world might still win. There are more of them (us), and not just in churches. Perhaps good people with collective best interests in mind have to be more proactive as a way of being, less responsive-only. less naive about what life looks like in the (c)overtly armed 21st century. I just don’t know what that means in terms of action.
We need to speak out when we hear lies and threats against others, such as we've been hearing from republican candidates or media who purvey them. And to reason with, as best we can, those around us who are being deceived, living in a false narrative that has been created so deliberately on the right. We can also help by supporting organizations and candidates who are standing against the lies, and those who serve the people.
10
jb: I am not a Republican, never voted for one, but this never-ending war within our nation doesn’t help us any. But I agree, support the good ones, where-ever you find them.
And now let's hear what the GOP candidates have to say about this: (cue the chirruping crickets)
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
5
When will Republicans respond to Christian terrorism the same way they respond to Islamic terrorism?
17
Among the shame of this is so many of these occurrences happen at an individual's place of employment: be it at a Planned Parenthood, a church, school, a movie theatre, etc. But try to take a gun through the doors of the Capitol or a congressional office building and see how far you get; then see how deeply ensnared in the legal system you are thereafter. The Congress is ensconced and fully protected at work, but this madness is unleashed upon the rest of us and everyone else is a target at what has become a potential shooting range.
The president lobbied members of Congress relentlessly when he wanted his health care act passed, for the Iran agreement, and to fast track the Trans-Pacific free trade agreement. No one believes it's going to take less than a sustained effort to break the stronghold of the multibillion dollar gun industry and its lobby. So the president saying enough is enough is just simply not enough. He knows (or should know) the effort that this will take.
The president lobbied members of Congress relentlessly when he wanted his health care act passed, for the Iran agreement, and to fast track the Trans-Pacific free trade agreement. No one believes it's going to take less than a sustained effort to break the stronghold of the multibillion dollar gun industry and its lobby. So the president saying enough is enough is just simply not enough. He knows (or should know) the effort that this will take.
3
I don't think the Congress would pay attention to an executive order pushing gun control or opening Congress up to those with guns.
It should be clear to anyone that given the Republicans in Congress, there is nothing more any president could do on this issue
And, it's the Congressmen who oppose every action on background checks, etc, who need to be asked if they think Congress should be opened to those carrying guns every time they walk into the halls to go to another meeting.
It should be clear to anyone that given the Republicans in Congress, there is nothing more any president could do on this issue
And, it's the Congressmen who oppose every action on background checks, etc, who need to be asked if they think Congress should be opened to those carrying guns every time they walk into the halls to go to another meeting.
1
To me he seems like an individual who was probably fed up with his lot in life and had had enough. To justify his actions he clung to some beliefe which would restore some meaning to his life. If anyone should be held accountable here, it should be the right wing media. The problem is not guns, the problem is this life we are creating for others and ourselves.
5
The normal people in this country are being terrorized by a small number of violent fanatics and kooks. Surely there must be ways to identify and treat/contain them before incidents like this occur.
1
Normal is relative. One man's normal is another man's bizarre. Some crazy looking people are quite normal and some normal looking people are quite crazy. This is quite prevalent in NYC.
3
KJ, I don't know how that would work. Profiling of every citizen? Widespread government surveillance (even more than we have now)? What happens when regular mentally ill people (the vast majority who are not violent) have their rights taken away?
The answer is controlling the means of destruction. That's the guns.
The answer is controlling the means of destruction. That's the guns.
4
We Americans are exposed to a DOMESTIC mass shooting every few weeks, and after a few days of gnashing our teeth, we shrug it off and go on about our business. Yet the concept of a mass shooting where the gunman is foreign, and especially if he's Muslim, puts us in a froth. We want to put up walls, and if the walls are already there, we want to make them higher. Why is that? Are the victims of the Paris shootings any MORE dead than the victims in Colorado Springs, or at Sandy Hook, or in Aurora, or any of the other domestic shooting sites? I think not. Dead is dead.
We are a nation, whether we admit it or not, that has gotten comfortable with domestic terror. But if foreign terror visits our shores, we spend our blood and more than a trillion dollars fighting two wars, playing right into the hands of the terrorists' strategy (how many more terrorists are there today than before 9/11?) We are a curious people!
We are a nation, whether we admit it or not, that has gotten comfortable with domestic terror. But if foreign terror visits our shores, we spend our blood and more than a trillion dollars fighting two wars, playing right into the hands of the terrorists' strategy (how many more terrorists are there today than before 9/11?) We are a curious people!
9
Scared yet? You're supposed to be. But it's no one's fault - right?
5
then why is this killer not called what HE is, a Radical Christian Extremist. [sic]
--------------
Tell us the ways in which this man practiced his alleged Christianity, what church he attended, what fellow worshippers he associated with, how many Right to Life marches he attended, what donations he made to Charity in money or labor, and so on...
The answer: NONE. Go ahead, equivocate.
--------------
Tell us the ways in which this man practiced his alleged Christianity, what church he attended, what fellow worshippers he associated with, how many Right to Life marches he attended, what donations he made to Charity in money or labor, and so on...
The answer: NONE. Go ahead, equivocate.
5
We would know that if we had better surveillance of churches.
9
You're funny!!
4
The plain fact is that you need none of those things to consider yourself religious, Christian, or whatever. Entirely possible to be radicalized by hate radio and television, internet lies, and political candidates egging you on. Please do not pretend that you have to be a Sunday School teacher to go out and kill folks. Get real.
7
How is Robert Dear different from a terrorist?
12
Terrorists generally belong to a tight knit group. That group generally cooperates in preparing for an attack. The group share an extremist ideology generally associated with an organized movement. Most terrorists are the age of soldiers. Most terrorist cells are affiliated with other similar cells that engage in similar violent attacks. Most terrorists are not killing for the sake of killing. Instead they have an ulterior motive to promote their ideology. Most terrorists receive formal training for their attacks from more experienced members of their sects. Most terrorists are financed by others who support their cause.
Is that enough, or do you need 100 more differences?
Is that enough, or do you need 100 more differences?
3
So let me get this straight...he doesn't believe in killing unborn fetuses but is okay with killing multiple living human beings? This is yet another example of someone using the bible/religion to justify murder. ISIS and Al Quada do the same thing. Just sayin'.
14
You give him way too much credit. He's an aggrieved loner who wants to make a splash, like Unabomber did. So he shoots up where he knows he'll get a maximum media response. It could have as easily been a big high school, or a crowded movie theater, but that would have been too unoriginal.
2
Charles- the only part we actually know is that he picked Planned Parenthood and made a statement about "no more baby parts". Connect those 2 dots if you wish to speculate.
7
I can't help think of the thinly veiled hate speech than republicans feed the masses that undoubtedly sew some of these tradgedies; remember sarah palin's web site having targets against enemy politicians---gabrielle giffords?
It's probably too much to ask to ask political leaders of republican party to advance ideas that are helpful to the majority of citizens--both here and the world' rather than pandering to the money class, bigots and poorly informed.
It's probably too much to ask to ask political leaders of republican party to advance ideas that are helpful to the majority of citizens--both here and the world' rather than pandering to the money class, bigots and poorly informed.
13
There are absolutely superb comments that should be mandatory for Republican presidential candidates and Republican members of the House and Senate to read.
The first few Readers' Picks deserve to be read daily by the above.
Abortion rights and Planned Parenthood are easy targets for the above cowardly hypocrites who prefer to manipulate emotional responses rather than approach these issues in a thoughtful, rational and honest manner.
Shame on them all, and for also silently endorsing these murderous attacks.
The first few Readers' Picks deserve to be read daily by the above.
Abortion rights and Planned Parenthood are easy targets for the above cowardly hypocrites who prefer to manipulate emotional responses rather than approach these issues in a thoughtful, rational and honest manner.
Shame on them all, and for also silently endorsing these murderous attacks.
13
Carly Fiorina made emphatic reference to those ant-Planned Parenthood video as though they were the truth during the first Republican debate. Maybe this guy was watching.
12
Right, we need to just sweep that whole "baby parts" thing under the rug. (Shh, silence. Don't talk about it.)
1
Joseph, Planned Parenthood was acting within the law. Multiple investigations have definitively discerned this. If you don't want fetal tissue being used for medical research, that's one thing, but this whole baby parts thing is just fuel for the Robert Dears of the world. Why perpetuate it?
9
AC
Right, it's legal to sell those baby parts. So, silence - telling the truth about the legal selling of baby parts is hurting "the "movement."
Right, it's legal to sell those baby parts. So, silence - telling the truth about the legal selling of baby parts is hurting "the "movement."
1
What an utter farce the Supreme Court makes of the whole concept of constitutional law by finding things like mandatory no co-pay contraceptive access unconstitutional because they purportedly don't comply with the unconstitutional "Religious Freedom Restoration Act".
It amazes me what kinds of liars and delusionals are considered "brilliant" in the US.
It amazes me what kinds of liars and delusionals are considered "brilliant" in the US.
16
Once you decide that money is the same as speech, or that a corporation is actually a person, the sky is pretty much the limit.
6
John R. -- yes, contraception absolutely is medicine, for which a prescription is needed, and different kinds work for different people.
6
JB
The NY Times is a corporation that is pouring millions of dollars into its own political speech (as is any book publishing company). What sort of limits would you like to impose on that sort of spending? (Corporations aren't people, right?)
The NY Times is a corporation that is pouring millions of dollars into its own political speech (as is any book publishing company). What sort of limits would you like to impose on that sort of spending? (Corporations aren't people, right?)
1
There have been comments invoking the phrase "Christian terrorist" or assuming that Mr. Dear was motivated by religious beliefs rather than voices in his head or voices on talk radio or in internet videos. But is Mr. Dear a cardboard cutout to be used to make ideological points? A useful cudgel to bash one's perceived political opponents?
No, he is a flesh and blood fellow human notwithstanding the fact that we are all outraged and appalled by his heinous acts. As such, he gets every constitutional right and presumption. I say this not because I admire or defend anything about him, but because I admire and defend our Bill of Rights and due process. I also do so because I hear voices in our land demonizing entire groups of people, be they migrants, Mexicans or Muslims. If you rightly find yourself horrified by rhetoric reducing individuals to the despised "other", then how can you do so to the accused, whose crimes are what he allegedly did that terrible day, and not in his being white, or a loner? Let justice take its course here, and stop with the demonizing of all Christians or any other group. Sadly we have candidates all too willing to demonize. Be better than that.
No, he is a flesh and blood fellow human notwithstanding the fact that we are all outraged and appalled by his heinous acts. As such, he gets every constitutional right and presumption. I say this not because I admire or defend anything about him, but because I admire and defend our Bill of Rights and due process. I also do so because I hear voices in our land demonizing entire groups of people, be they migrants, Mexicans or Muslims. If you rightly find yourself horrified by rhetoric reducing individuals to the despised "other", then how can you do so to the accused, whose crimes are what he allegedly did that terrible day, and not in his being white, or a loner? Let justice take its course here, and stop with the demonizing of all Christians or any other group. Sadly we have candidates all too willing to demonize. Be better than that.
2
Give me a break! This guy may or may not be a Christian, that is true enough but EVERY TIME A HUMAN RIGHTS ISSUE comes up there is a Christian trying to deny equality. When you have THREE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES ENDORSING KEVIN SWANSON that is outrageous. These people are in support of genocide. All claiming to be Christian and there counter Christians are relativity silent.
8
@Thompson Most of us , and the general public have no idea whom you are referencing. However as to terrorism, warfare, and the environment Is Pope Francis silent? Is any mainline Protestant pastor? Are Anglican and Eastern Orthodox silent, about genocide, migrants, and the rights of ethnic and racial minorities, while calling out and condemning unjust hatred and bigotry against anyone? Evangelical fundamentalists may monopolize the term "Christian" in parts of the USA but there is no reason to accept that presumption. You need to listen outside the narrow confines of partisan politics or fundamentalist sects.
3
Resolution made by the Episcopal Church in 1988 against violence directed at abortion clinics.
Resolution Number: 1988-D124
Title: Condemn Acts of Violence Against Abortion Facilities and Their Clients
Legislative Action Taken: Concurred As Submitted
Final Text:
Resolved, the House of Deputies concurring, That this 69th General Convention of the Episcopal Church condemn all actions of violence against abortion clinics; and be it further
Resolved, That this Convention deplore any acts of violence against those persons seeking the services available at such clinics.
Citation: General Convention, Journal of the General Convention of...The Episcopal Church, Detroit, 1988 (New York: General Convention, 1989), p. 694.
Resolution Number: 1988-D124
Title: Condemn Acts of Violence Against Abortion Facilities and Their Clients
Legislative Action Taken: Concurred As Submitted
Final Text:
Resolved, the House of Deputies concurring, That this 69th General Convention of the Episcopal Church condemn all actions of violence against abortion clinics; and be it further
Resolved, That this Convention deplore any acts of violence against those persons seeking the services available at such clinics.
Citation: General Convention, Journal of the General Convention of...The Episcopal Church, Detroit, 1988 (New York: General Convention, 1989), p. 694.
5
This not "news". It is the same story again of all mass killers. The Times can refrain from printing the names of rape victims. You can refrain from printing the names of mass killers who lust for publicity.
2
This is not about guns or mental illness - unless we want to classify all extremist thought as deranged, which would be logical. This is domestic terrorism, and the killer belongs in Gitmo. I would also propose that the ideologues running for the Republican nomination, and their brethren in the Freedom Caucus in the House shoulder the blame for fanning the lying hatred that drives men such as this one. Poor, ultraconservative white men are not only the gravest terror threat within our borders, they are also taking their own lives as evidenced by their increasing death rate resulting from drugs and alcohol. As our country drifts deeper into despair, this will only worsen. A shift in our focus from blind American exceptionalism to a realistic compassion embracing each other and our those in need around the world would prove our true worth as Americans.
9
There are two enablers here: the propagandists of GOP and the NRA. A policeman is dead for no reason as a result.
14
More than just a policeman dead. Many grievously wounded. Yet you only mention the policeman, as though that is what makes this significant.
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
8
As are 2 other people.
9
"Along with examining whether Mr. Dear could be charged with a hate crime, officials were exploring whether he may have violated federal laws intended to protect abortion clinics. In 1994, President Bill Clinton signed the Freedom of Access to Clinic Entrances Act, which makes it a crime to use physical force against patients and clinic employees."
May have?
May have?
14
This man parroted the right wing narrative -- one that was not true, one that was manufactured -- and decided to murder people because of it. The party that manufactured this lie is the same party that is pro gun. In their incompetence this party has unleashed monsters upon this land.
12
The problem with this man is not merely that he had guns, the problem is that he was a violent, hate-filled right wing terrorist who had guns. Let's be clear on this. As the NRA continually reminds us, it is not the guns alone that kill people, it is (with the not infrequent and tragic accidental shootings set aside) vile murderers with guns who do.
6
But that does not explain the soaring murder rates in Chicago, Oakland, and other Democrat fiefdoms, does it? If 3 Colorado murders are "terrorism," what are 500 annual murders in Chicago? Armageddon?
3
Can someone please reconcile the concept of "pro-life" and pro-gun for me? The same people seem to adhere to both and I find them somewhat contradictory.
9
The NRA and those of us who are pro-chice have more in common than we like to admit.
We both profess extreme positions on major issues. The reason for this is a very real fear that our rights will be taken away.
For women our fear is that our right to terminate an unwanted or unhealthy pregnancy will be taken away. This is a very real and well founded concern.
For law-abiding citizens (the majority of legal gun owners) who keep a gun in the home for hunting, target practice or self-protection, the fear is that the right to own a gun will be taken away. That fear is also legitimate.
The most basic study of biology tells us that a fetus is a human being in it's earliest stages of development. This isnt a religious belief as many maintain, it's just science. But common sense should tell us that there's a world of difference between an 8 week old fetus and a third trimester pregnancy. Why would anybody insist otherwise? Because there is a substantial group of people who would take away our right to a safe abortion at any stage of fetal development. We oppose ANY restrictions on abortion at any stage because they would open the door to complete loss of rights.
The NRA takes onerous position of opposing ANY common-sense restrictions on gun ownership, like background checks and training. Why would they oppose potentially life-saving measures? Because they open the door to confiscation and loss of rights.
What can we do?
We both profess extreme positions on major issues. The reason for this is a very real fear that our rights will be taken away.
For women our fear is that our right to terminate an unwanted or unhealthy pregnancy will be taken away. This is a very real and well founded concern.
For law-abiding citizens (the majority of legal gun owners) who keep a gun in the home for hunting, target practice or self-protection, the fear is that the right to own a gun will be taken away. That fear is also legitimate.
The most basic study of biology tells us that a fetus is a human being in it's earliest stages of development. This isnt a religious belief as many maintain, it's just science. But common sense should tell us that there's a world of difference between an 8 week old fetus and a third trimester pregnancy. Why would anybody insist otherwise? Because there is a substantial group of people who would take away our right to a safe abortion at any stage of fetal development. We oppose ANY restrictions on abortion at any stage because they would open the door to complete loss of rights.
The NRA takes onerous position of opposing ANY common-sense restrictions on gun ownership, like background checks and training. Why would they oppose potentially life-saving measures? Because they open the door to confiscation and loss of rights.
What can we do?
5
There is a ban on "partial birth abortion." It should be banned unless absolutely necessary for the health of the woman. This is too much like infanticide. Infanticide should be banned; any other timing or type of abortion should be up to the woman and her doctor. it is her body; her choice
3
I realize that second trimester abortions are almost always for the health of the mother or due to fetal abnormality and that third trimester abortions are so rare it's almost a non issue.
So why do some reproductive freedom advocates adhere to the position that "any timing" for an abortion is acceptable? Why would someone advocate for the right to perform a seven or eight month abortion of a viable fetus for any reason other than the health of the mother?
For the same reason that the NRA adheres to their position that no new regulation on guns is acceptable: the fear that any new regulation at all, however rational, will lead to a complete loss of rights. It's the old camels nose argument. Once that camel gets his nose in the tent you can't prevent the rest of the camel from following.
Inflammatory rhetoric, whether it's calling a woman who chooses to terminate a pregnancy a "murderer", or calling a target shooter a "gun nut" is counter-productive - other than the fact that it might make us feel good momentarily. In fact, it just polarizes people and sometimes leads to violence.
So why do some reproductive freedom advocates adhere to the position that "any timing" for an abortion is acceptable? Why would someone advocate for the right to perform a seven or eight month abortion of a viable fetus for any reason other than the health of the mother?
For the same reason that the NRA adheres to their position that no new regulation on guns is acceptable: the fear that any new regulation at all, however rational, will lead to a complete loss of rights. It's the old camels nose argument. Once that camel gets his nose in the tent you can't prevent the rest of the camel from following.
Inflammatory rhetoric, whether it's calling a woman who chooses to terminate a pregnancy a "murderer", or calling a target shooter a "gun nut" is counter-productive - other than the fact that it might make us feel good momentarily. In fact, it just polarizes people and sometimes leads to violence.
5
You are wrong Todd. The pro-choice crowd is not the same as pro-gun crowd. The right-wing, Christian, conservative anti-choice side has been fighting to take away a woman's right to choose since the ink was barely dry on Roe v. Wade. They have been wildly successful, making it very difficult for millions of (mostly poor) women to exercise their Constitutional right to terminate a pregnancy. Meanwhile the NRA became a political organization and has been very successful in making more guns available to more people in more places (the "guns everywhere" agenda).
The result is the pro-choice side has lost considerable amount of their rights, while the pro-gun side has dramatically expanded theirs.
The result is the pro-choice side has lost considerable amount of their rights, while the pro-gun side has dramatically expanded theirs.
This is the fourth time this year a Planned Parenthood Office was attacked because of that 100% fake video the Republicans are using to score votes. Sickening. He and the others are terrorists employing the same tactics as ISIS to fear using these clinics. He should be charged for committing acts of terrorism not a hate crime.
13
Same with Cruz, Rubio and Fiorina. All should be frogmarched into court and be charged with accessory and incitement to murder.
6
he's no thug, nor a criminal he just murders people. gun violence is the culprit. so much white people rationalizations for white people.
This article gave a lot of information about Mr. Dear's history and proclivities. However, a rather large piece was missing. What does he use as his news source? Dollars to doughnuts he's a FoxNews viewer. In fact, I'd wager that the majority of violent criminals over the age of thirty-five regularly view FoxNews and listen to right-wing hate radio.
8
Republican political policies encourage such violent actions against Planned Parenthood.
18
The Republican Party, America's largest hate group, in cahoots with the NRA, an organization so extreme they won't allow their bought and paid for politicians to bar those listed on the terrorist watch list from owning guns, and the presidential candidates who spew lies and hate day after day after day now have blood on their hands.
Will any Republican stand up and demand the closing of Christian churches and the expulsion of evangelicals from the country because of this act of domestic terrorism? Of course not. They need their votes.
Will any Republican stand up and demand the closing of Christian churches and the expulsion of evangelicals from the country because of this act of domestic terrorism? Of course not. They need their votes.
18
Please prove your accusations.
1
KMW, just turn on Fox.
7
Why is the Times giving this story so much publicity? Do the editors of the Times not read their own newspaper? In October you printed an article about mass shootings as a contagion with publicity having an "accelerating effect." The media is as guilty as the NRA and the firearms industry for this problem. "If it bleeds , it leads." and the media again cashes in on human suffering.
problem.http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/08/science/mass-killers-often-rely-on-pas...
problem.http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/08/science/mass-killers-often-rely-on-pas...
2
But therein lies the conundrum: human beings do wish to be informed about the world around them. They do wish to know what is going on in their communities, their states, their nations. Especially when it relates to threats, whether real or perceived. And we have largely determined, as a society which values free speech, that we have a collective right to much of that information. We may be growing more and more aware of the potential impact this information dissemination can have - but putting all of that back in the box is highly unlikely - even impossible.
If the Times and other news organizations declined to publish any information on the shooter, rest assured that many voices would clamor for access to such information. The more conspiracy-minded among us will probably cook up a far more complex, bizarre tale than the sad reality. Others will complain that there must be a coverup or something nefarious.
It's not as easy as saying the Times and their peers shouldn't be publishing this information.
If the Times and other news organizations declined to publish any information on the shooter, rest assured that many voices would clamor for access to such information. The more conspiracy-minded among us will probably cook up a far more complex, bizarre tale than the sad reality. Others will complain that there must be a coverup or something nefarious.
It's not as easy as saying the Times and their peers shouldn't be publishing this information.
2
Extensive media coverage of mass shootings in other countries---ie: Norway, Canada---do not have an 'accelerating effect'. Why? Probably because their societies are not awash in every type of easily obtained firearm imaginable.
8
I'm thinking Carly Fiorina needs to be true to her cause. She should take her entourage out to Colorado Springs and hold a news conference and suggest that it takes somebody like Robert L. Dear Jr. to finally get her message!!!!
That dastardly, Muslim loving Barack Obama wants to penalize him for trying to protect the unborn.
It would be even more poignant if she would fly Kim Davis and her husband,the clerk from Kentucky, who thinks her God trumps he law, and use them for a backdrop.
Time to stand with right thinking Americans should be her battle cry
That dastardly, Muslim loving Barack Obama wants to penalize him for trying to protect the unborn.
It would be even more poignant if she would fly Kim Davis and her husband,the clerk from Kentucky, who thinks her God trumps he law, and use them for a backdrop.
Time to stand with right thinking Americans should be her battle cry
15
I will be glad to tag along. I am for protecting the unborn.
1
Wait a minute, KMW. You want to go to a hypothetical rally supporting Robert Dear?
5
KMW - " I am for protecting the unborn." Funny, but the moment they're born you and your conservatives tell the kid he/she's on their own. And heaven help the mother if she asks for help - then you call her a taker. Pro-life? Nah, not so much.
4
When are people going to realize that the Christian Right is not that dissimilar to ISIS? It also wants to take over territory to impose its religious views on people who don't agree; it also wants to treat women as bodies to be used for others' purposes, i.e. slavery; and it is composed of violent men who will use terror and murder to attain its ends.
The difference is that America, since 1864 has been a secular state that does not allow religious beliefs to make law and it does not allow slavery. So huge majorities will always fight religious imposition of laws, no matter how much terror they try to evoke.
The difference is that America, since 1864 has been a secular state that does not allow religious beliefs to make law and it does not allow slavery. So huge majorities will always fight religious imposition of laws, no matter how much terror they try to evoke.
23
The constitutional ban on faith-based legislation in the US has been rigorously ignored ever since the Congress legislated the nation to be "under God", back in 1953.
3
So, let me get this straight. The U.S. Government is all uptight about foreign men controlling a foreign woman's right to her own body; so obsessed in fact that the U.S. Government has spent trillions of U.S. taxpayer money to declare war on these men who hate their women, and justifies invading the countries of these foreign men to bring freedom and rights to these women.
President Obama: Closed any Afghan soccer stadiums lately?
However, back home, this same government -- a government primarily ruled by men, and dominated by men male dominated -- carries out war against their own women by burning down Planned Parenthood offices, using propaganda and lies, killing women who seek the right to have control over their bodies, murdering women -- in their own unrelenting, ceaseless control and domination of women.
Where is the war against this government and these men?
The only difference between these two nations of men is how in the U.S. Government there are women in power who are carrying out this war upon their own kind.
Decide this matter. Enough is Enough. Once and for all. Or let the killing and murder of women continue.
President Obama: Closed any Afghan soccer stadiums lately?
However, back home, this same government -- a government primarily ruled by men, and dominated by men male dominated -- carries out war against their own women by burning down Planned Parenthood offices, using propaganda and lies, killing women who seek the right to have control over their bodies, murdering women -- in their own unrelenting, ceaseless control and domination of women.
Where is the war against this government and these men?
The only difference between these two nations of men is how in the U.S. Government there are women in power who are carrying out this war upon their own kind.
Decide this matter. Enough is Enough. Once and for all. Or let the killing and murder of women continue.
8
There goes "Religion and gun" to rescue the extremist who happen to to born few thousand miles away from middle of the east.
3
It would be nice to see a reporter confront one of the venal, shameless opportunists running for the GOP nomination about this, particularly Carly Fiorina, whose irresponsible, totally false accusations about Planned Parenthood based on a deceptively edited video very likely led to this latest act of domestic terrorism.
18
Dear appears to be a type we can expect to see more of: someone emotionally unsettled by a toxic political environment. Tribalist/survivalist/fundamentalist rhetoric has always had the power to move borderline personalities into terrorism. This year's spikes in extreme election rhetoric most likely played a role in pushing this individual over the edge.
10
The only places on Earth where there are tens of millions of guns loose are war zones. Perhaps if the world's civilized nations put in place a strong travel advisory warning against traveling to what is one of the most dangerous nations on earth, and it started hitting pocket books, those corrupt merchants of death running the place might be forced to implement the same kinds of reasonable background checks and controls that work so well in EVERY OTHER WESTERN DEMOCRACY.
12
..."we have to do something about the easy accessibility of weapons of war on our streets to people who have no business wielding them.”
That's all of us. We need to disarm and stop killing each other.
The fact that Mr Dear had guns means that anyone can get one. To those who think that this makes sense, a large part of this tragedy is on you. The "good guys with guns" eventually stopped him: he's alive, but others no.
Children murdered, women murdered, police murdered--are your violent toys to you worth this slaughter?
That's all of us. We need to disarm and stop killing each other.
The fact that Mr Dear had guns means that anyone can get one. To those who think that this makes sense, a large part of this tragedy is on you. The "good guys with guns" eventually stopped him: he's alive, but others no.
Children murdered, women murdered, police murdered--are your violent toys to you worth this slaughter?
8
If Robert Dear is not mentally ill, what then? Many, or even most, murders are committed by sane but very dangerous individuals. To believe the contrary is to provide fuel for the gun lobby.
5
We try to find a way to figure out what the motivation is - the why and the how someone could do this. There are too many words for something so simple.
All we need to know is that anyone who kills in this manner is mentally ill. That's it. Giving the mentally ill free reign on weapons -- that's the real why and the how.
All we need to know is that anyone who kills in this manner is mentally ill. That's it. Giving the mentally ill free reign on weapons -- that's the real why and the how.
3
Lies by Republican terrorists like Carly Fiorina. Lies by the fascist propaganda mill like Fox News and hate radio.
Where is the rule of law in the USA?
Why are fascist terrorists like Republican party politicians and hate media mouthpieces allowed to incite low-functioning morons like this shooter with brazen lies?
Where is the rule of law in the USA?
Why are fascist terrorists like Republican party politicians and hate media mouthpieces allowed to incite low-functioning morons like this shooter with brazen lies?
28
Because Ronald Reagan and his fellow Republican criminals gave honorary citizenship to Rupert Murdoch
So he could establish a right wing propaganda network known as Fox News to influence stupid Americans to vote against their own interests. That's why.
So he could establish a right wing propaganda network known as Fox News to influence stupid Americans to vote against their own interests. That's why.
7
One thing that puzzles me about this thing is that we do not know who the two "civilians" were that he killed. It seems like the authorities must know by this time, but there's nothing in the media. Who they were might tell us something about his motives.
4
If the other victims were patients whose families do not wish to publicize their medical conditions, it would not yet be public. There is, as yet, considerable missing information as if there might at least be reasonable grounds to search for a consipracy behind this terrible shooting. I'm waitins as you are.
2
On Saturday the police said they would not be releasing those names until after a full autopsy. I believe they gave a probable date of Monday for that information to be made public.
2
I hope those politicians and their Christian supporters who held bogus hearings on made up false evidence accept their responsibility for this tragedy. They have spent years telling lies about Planned Parented.
28
I hope these people get prosecuted, for what they did, give false evidence using false identities.
2
In 1957, President Eisenhower ordered National Guard troops in Arkansas to mobilize in order to support the Constitutional rights of black students attempting to enroll in and attend a formerly segregated high school. I believe that it is high time for President Obama to mobilize the National Guard to protect the constitutional rights of women to receive any available health care services, including abortion, at any clinic that offers them. I feel, as I'm sure many Americans also do, that no one in Washington is truly standing up for the rights of women in the face of ongoing and worsening harassment by protesters and right wing terrorists.
25
We haven't had success in dealing with the main avenues deemed relevant in reducing mass killings -- mental health and gun restrictions. But there is a third option out there. As many as 20 to 30 percent of attacks are set off by other attacks, according to researchers at Arizona State University and Northeastern Illinois University. This strongly suggests that censorship in reporting such incidents could save dozens of lives. Such censorship need not violate the First Amendment if it can be established that pervasive news coverage is like screaming fire in a "theater" crowded with dangerous individuals who own guns. The suggestion may sound unAmerican. But these shootings have become all too American.
5
Wow.
How about starting with identifying lies as lies with our media, not a black out of information. Hold people accountable not help the liars amongst us.
Candidates lying with the help of media is driving some crazy behavior from the base.
How about starting with identifying lies as lies with our media, not a black out of information. Hold people accountable not help the liars amongst us.
Candidates lying with the help of media is driving some crazy behavior from the base.
11
michjas: You cite mental health and gun restrictions. How about incendiary politicians who deliberately fan the flames of hate? And a whole "news" channel which inspires these actions?
Contrary to what you say, there is no restriction on "screaming fire in a theater," but rather FALSELY doing so. To suppress news reports of shootings is unconstitutional (see Prior Restraint). To prosecute people who use lies to create a clear and present danger is very constitutional.
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
Contrary to what you say, there is no restriction on "screaming fire in a theater," but rather FALSELY doing so. To suppress news reports of shootings is unconstitutional (see Prior Restraint). To prosecute people who use lies to create a clear and present danger is very constitutional.
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
6
Not a bad idea, up to a point. But then who gets to decide what is a lie? Depending where one falls on the political spectrum these days, one person's lies is another person's facts
The GOP has made clear that rhetoric matters. Every time someone speaks out against police brutality and abuse of power, the leading candidates, their spokespeople and supporters all complain that the protestors are complicit in either violence against cops or the made-up contention that officers are afraid to do their jobs.
But according to countless Republicans and other pro-forced-birth activists both now and over the years, when things like Colorado Springs happen, suddenly it's hey-not-my-fault, or in the case of Carly Fiorina just this morning, a "left-wing tactic" to make the connection between their hateful, inciting, lying rhetoric and the terror inflicted on women and entire communities.
Which is it, guys?
But according to countless Republicans and other pro-forced-birth activists both now and over the years, when things like Colorado Springs happen, suddenly it's hey-not-my-fault, or in the case of Carly Fiorina just this morning, a "left-wing tactic" to make the connection between their hateful, inciting, lying rhetoric and the terror inflicted on women and entire communities.
Which is it, guys?
22
New York Times - Please stop showing the face of this criminal on the front page and stop featuring him in big articles. Every time the media makes big news of these violent, monstrous people, it turns others like them to thinking they can also be a somebody. The media has a responsibility to showcase them as they are, nobodies who are demented and not be celebrated.
13
It is called selling newspapers/internet subscriptions.
1
This country needs FREE mental health and addiction care asap. With a little luck the rest will follow.
4
The NYT.com front page blurb on this story reads:
A law enforcement official said Robert L. Dear Jr. made the statement ("no more baby parts") in a rambling interview about his deadly rampage at a Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado Springs, Colo., but his motive remained unclear.
Once again, the American media unwilling to admit that right-wing terrorism is the culprit. It's always "unclear" or a "mentally disturbed individual" or some such nonsense. Right wing terrorism is an active threat in this country. You'd think the organizations tasked with informing the public would be more clear about it.
A law enforcement official said Robert L. Dear Jr. made the statement ("no more baby parts") in a rambling interview about his deadly rampage at a Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado Springs, Colo., but his motive remained unclear.
Once again, the American media unwilling to admit that right-wing terrorism is the culprit. It's always "unclear" or a "mentally disturbed individual" or some such nonsense. Right wing terrorism is an active threat in this country. You'd think the organizations tasked with informing the public would be more clear about it.
14
He is a Republican Terrorist pure and simple. They incite it, they own it.
4
I put the blame for this act squarely where it belongs. On the shoulders of the "Center for Medical Progress" and Mr. Daleiden the head of of said organization who provided edited videos to falsely claim that Planned Parenthood profits off of abortions. Secondarily, I blame the GOP Right Wing for promoting false accusations. Thirdly, I blame the mainstream media for fomenting hatred towards Planned Parenthood and not doing enough to rebut those false claims. Lastly, I blame this misguided sick individual who believed what those mentioned above told him was the unadulterated truth. They should ALL be held accountable.
17
Carly Fiorina is responsible for this man's actions. She claimed that PP was selling fetal body parts on a national television debate watched by millions. His own statements show that he heard her statements and took them to be a call to action. She is not fit to be president.
24
I am all for serious gun control and am against the rabid right wing muckraking and extremism that instigates the deranged and mentally ill to heinous acts.
But after all is said and done, one realizes that this person was, to those who knew him, just an art dealer with some anger management issues. He ran a business and raised a son. Perhaps mental illness developed afterward. No contemplated gun control would have prevented this. Muzzling Fox news and its minions or more fully excoriating Carley Fiorina for her lies about the Planned Parenthood video would likely not have prevented this either.
We are powerless to search out every last messenger of evil in our world. We will always be vulnerable to a lonely person going quietly mad in a tarpaper shack.
Whatever role we would ascribe to the gun he carried or the propaganda Robert Dear certainly heard which drove him to his mad act, the tragedy here was just a human one.
But after all is said and done, one realizes that this person was, to those who knew him, just an art dealer with some anger management issues. He ran a business and raised a son. Perhaps mental illness developed afterward. No contemplated gun control would have prevented this. Muzzling Fox news and its minions or more fully excoriating Carley Fiorina for her lies about the Planned Parenthood video would likely not have prevented this either.
We are powerless to search out every last messenger of evil in our world. We will always be vulnerable to a lonely person going quietly mad in a tarpaper shack.
Whatever role we would ascribe to the gun he carried or the propaganda Robert Dear certainly heard which drove him to his mad act, the tragedy here was just a human one.
5
I think it's very important that comments such as this, which are wrong in so many ways (and as an Editor's Pick will get more attention) be rebutted.
If gun owners - and potential gun owners - were required to submit to regular psychological tests to buy and keep their guns, it's possible someone like Dear would never be able to own guns, or would have them taken away.
Strong gun control laws, which other countries with much lower levels of gun violence gave, work. In America, sadly and tragically, we cannot pass even the most minimal federal gun control law (universal background checks), which is supported by 90% of Americans.
Millions of gun purchases have been denied due to existing background checks by gun dealers. God knows how many lives gave been saved.
No, we can't possibly identify every mentally ill or potential mass murderer. But we can do so much more to prevent these people from getting their hands on these weapons of destruction.
If gun owners - and potential gun owners - were required to submit to regular psychological tests to buy and keep their guns, it's possible someone like Dear would never be able to own guns, or would have them taken away.
Strong gun control laws, which other countries with much lower levels of gun violence gave, work. In America, sadly and tragically, we cannot pass even the most minimal federal gun control law (universal background checks), which is supported by 90% of Americans.
Millions of gun purchases have been denied due to existing background checks by gun dealers. God knows how many lives gave been saved.
No, we can't possibly identify every mentally ill or potential mass murderer. But we can do so much more to prevent these people from getting their hands on these weapons of destruction.
1
This doesn't count as terrorism, unfortunately, because a white Christian guy did it. Also, the gunman was exercising his First Amendment right to be insane and say insane things and his Second Amendment right to brandish a firearm. Folks will say this guy loved his freedom, whereas if an Arab Muslim guy had done this, people would say it's because he hates freedom.
12
Only 3 killed hardly qualifies as "terrorism." If it did, Chicago the Murder Capital would have been put under Martial Law 3 years ago.
3
Every year, more Americans are killed by their infant children playing with guns than by ISIS and Al-Qaeda combined.
Food for thought.
Food for thought.
12
YUCK. Past days coming to NY Times, one will need to contend with that front/side mug shot of the perpetrator. So tired of it, will remember to turn NY Times off too, during the inevitable drawn out runs of these miserable stories, and the free publicity given the perpetrators. I need a shower now. Signing off.
6
Funny, isn't it, how when these rampages happen we all don't think "Oh, must be another Obama-supporting lefty liberal shooting people again"?
Funny, isn' it, how time and time again the deluded and the violent are found to have their heads filled with the rightist conspiracy-theory drivel spewed out daily by the hate-mongers of talk-radio, the propagandists of Fox "News," and, sadly, the front runners for the GOP nomination for president?
Strange that time and time again the shooters are fueled by the paranoid delusions of the right: that Obama is coming for all your guns, that liberals and femininazis and hoity-toity university elites are destroying an America they hate, that their president, Obama, is not really one of us but is a secret atheist Muslim Hiterlite Stalinist who wants America to fail.
When will the mainstream media stop treating the modern right wing, which spouts this nonsense day in and day out, is if it were airing legitimate political propositions and not spouting reactionary lies and misinformation that seep into unbalanced minds and produce tragedies like this?
The connection between mainstream rightist rhetoric and the frequent mass shooters acting on what they perceive to be the "truth" the right has fed to them is too consistent and obvious to be denied any longer.
In a country where the deranged have access to high-powered military weaponry, the hyperventilated rhetoric of the right is as irresponsible as striking a match in a petrol dump.
Funny, isn' it, how time and time again the deluded and the violent are found to have their heads filled with the rightist conspiracy-theory drivel spewed out daily by the hate-mongers of talk-radio, the propagandists of Fox "News," and, sadly, the front runners for the GOP nomination for president?
Strange that time and time again the shooters are fueled by the paranoid delusions of the right: that Obama is coming for all your guns, that liberals and femininazis and hoity-toity university elites are destroying an America they hate, that their president, Obama, is not really one of us but is a secret atheist Muslim Hiterlite Stalinist who wants America to fail.
When will the mainstream media stop treating the modern right wing, which spouts this nonsense day in and day out, is if it were airing legitimate political propositions and not spouting reactionary lies and misinformation that seep into unbalanced minds and produce tragedies like this?
The connection between mainstream rightist rhetoric and the frequent mass shooters acting on what they perceive to be the "truth" the right has fed to them is too consistent and obvious to be denied any longer.
In a country where the deranged have access to high-powered military weaponry, the hyperventilated rhetoric of the right is as irresponsible as striking a match in a petrol dump.
25
T. McVeigh is the classical US example. Yes, is true.
3
---And, "funny, isn't it," that the "solution" the Left always comes up with to most of society's ills, is to take away a "few more" freedoms....In this case, the First Amendment??
1
"But one senior law enforcement official, who would speak only anonymously about an ongoing investigation, said that after Mr. Dear was arrested, he had said “no more baby parts” in a rambling interview with the authorities.
The official said that Mr. Dear “said a lot of things” during his interview, making it difficult for the authorities to pinpoint a specific motivation."
----------------------
Sorry, N.Y. Times, you just don't print such a scathing explanation forthis atrocity that puts the smoking gun in Republican hands from a source that you can't identify. If the hateful accusations against Planned Parenthood by conservatives, including some Presidential candidates, were the the rationale for this crime it will come out in due time.
In case you haven't noticed, there is a spiral of escalation of partisan hatred, which includes discounting the main stream media. There is no justification to be the first with news that can't be validated.
AlRodbell.com
The official said that Mr. Dear “said a lot of things” during his interview, making it difficult for the authorities to pinpoint a specific motivation."
----------------------
Sorry, N.Y. Times, you just don't print such a scathing explanation forthis atrocity that puts the smoking gun in Republican hands from a source that you can't identify. If the hateful accusations against Planned Parenthood by conservatives, including some Presidential candidates, were the the rationale for this crime it will come out in due time.
In case you haven't noticed, there is a spiral of escalation of partisan hatred, which includes discounting the main stream media. There is no justification to be the first with news that can't be validated.
AlRodbell.com
4
A senior law enforcement officer willing to say that he was told this by the person arrested, on the record, is fairly specific.
10
The Times revised their online headline to remove the smoking gun words that I objected to. Perhaps they saw the merit to the point that I made. Using a quote from one not authorized to speak to the media is of questionable ethics at best.
Obama says, "Enough is enough," after Colorado. I'm not surprised. The government and the media are in cahoots to give as much attention to these shooters as possible in order to scare us so that we civilians will give up our guns. After everyone finally gives up his or her guns, the government can implement their totalitarian plans. I'm sure living under military occupation will be just fine. Just ask the Iraqis. Anti-gun proponents better have a good think about what the future will hold when no one is armed except the police and military. We need to have free public access to mental health care to treat these deranged people, not gun removal.
2
i'm curious: what exactly is it that you think the Black Helicopters will do tha's worse than stomping into a health clinic with an AK and a whole lot of ammo, killing three people including a cop, wounding about ten more, and forcing everybody in the area to stay locked in a room for eight hours?
9
Have you yourself checked for sources of mental heath care? I fully agree that we need better healthcare, and that Ronald Reagan's tossing the mentally ill that were in hospitals onto the street was tragic.
The delusion of defending oneself with handguns and assault rifles against a government that can wage wars around the world...not good use of one's mind. Listening to the radicals who stir up anger and hatred...this is harmful to your emotional health. It's easy to access people's fear: evil people have done it forever. Don't give in to this attack on who you really are!
The delusion of defending oneself with handguns and assault rifles against a government that can wage wars around the world...not good use of one's mind. Listening to the radicals who stir up anger and hatred...this is harmful to your emotional health. It's easy to access people's fear: evil people have done it forever. Don't give in to this attack on who you really are!
2
You may fit the bill as well, '...implement their totalitarian plans'.
The mental derangement you are referring to are largely the fundamentalist talking points. And yes, C. Fiorina is extremist in that she puts out blatant lies, repeatedly.
The mental derangement you are referring to are largely the fundamentalist talking points. And yes, C. Fiorina is extremist in that she puts out blatant lies, repeatedly.
3
Crediting Carly Fiorina and the members of the house committee that interrogated Cecile Richards for contributing to the atmosphere; they own this, absolutely.
32
The White House and the Agency sure are determined to lay down a bloody path of pretext for top-down executive action. And what a bonus in this new show: emotional and cognitive association manipulation over pro-abortion policy. Surely there is a more honest, less violent program?
1
Thanks for illustrating just what sort of thought processes led this lunatic with an AK to shoot up a clinic and kill people.
12
While reading this article I was reminded of Eric Clapton's "Lonely Stranger" ('91), very odd.
Oh he wanted to be left alone.......maybe like women who male a perfectly legal and personal decision to have an abortion? I saw one description of this clown as " adrift and alienated" thank goodness he wasn't a DOMESTIC TERRORIST! And of course its so very important for " adrift and alienated" individual to get a gun to........defend their " adriftness and alienation"
13
When you draw equivalence between abortion and the murder of actual human beings, then you morally justify the killing of providers of abortion services. It is as simple as that.
When you claim the right to act on the basis of the Bible rather than our Constitution and the First Amendment separation of Church and State, then you are an opponent of the Constitution and the system of laws our Founding Fathers created. It is as simple as that.
It is time we demand radical conservatives take responsibility for the consequences of their ideology. At the very least, we need to acknowledge that if you propagate extremist rhetoric while demanding an unlimited right to access lethal weapons, this is a recipe for domestic terrorism that will only get worse until we either tone down the rhetoric, or have some common-sense regulation regarding the screening of gun purchasers.
When you claim the right to act on the basis of the Bible rather than our Constitution and the First Amendment separation of Church and State, then you are an opponent of the Constitution and the system of laws our Founding Fathers created. It is as simple as that.
It is time we demand radical conservatives take responsibility for the consequences of their ideology. At the very least, we need to acknowledge that if you propagate extremist rhetoric while demanding an unlimited right to access lethal weapons, this is a recipe for domestic terrorism that will only get worse until we either tone down the rhetoric, or have some common-sense regulation regarding the screening of gun purchasers.
26
Am I alone in fearing that Trump and those around him may be intentionally fomenting and inciting violence in order to be able to make the case for more law and order -- potentially even including dispensing with electoral politics at all -- as their path to power? He has a platform and an infrastructure and a following and the sheen of legitimacy and it's getting more and more frightening with each passing day.... I know THIS wasn't Trump, but it certainly is part of the same larger trend we seem to be seeing of right-wing extremist violence of late....
14
Robert L. Dear Jr fits the mold of other monsters (Theodore Kaczynski, Dylann Roof, Ismaaiyl Abdullah Brinsley, etc) for being socially isolated and mentally unstable.
In addition, all had a history of drug use and prior run ins with the law.
There has to be a way to prevent people like this from going around society unchecked, let alone allowing them to purchase destructive equipment like guns and propane tanks.
One other thing: it is clear the Robert Dear had nothing to do with the pro-Life community, which is horrified by this murderer. Please remember than when you formulate your opinions.
In addition, all had a history of drug use and prior run ins with the law.
There has to be a way to prevent people like this from going around society unchecked, let alone allowing them to purchase destructive equipment like guns and propane tanks.
One other thing: it is clear the Robert Dear had nothing to do with the pro-Life community, which is horrified by this murderer. Please remember than when you formulate your opinions.
3
They are horrified as well they should be. But they are complicit by allowing the furor to reach this level. At any time they could have stood up and said the video or videos were inappropriate and maligning a law abiding organization like Planned Patenthood was out of line. But did they? No.
4
You do not know that he "had nothing to do with the pro-Life community".
The people who show up to squawk about this video every week at the Colorado Springs PP had the same idea this guy did about "baby parts" even though it was shown to be a cobbled together mess.
The people who show up to squawk about this video every week at the Colorado Springs PP had the same idea this guy did about "baby parts" even though it was shown to be a cobbled together mess.
8
I have seen the pro-birth in action in front of PP facilities - threatening, bulllying and spewing hate - they own this one
12
As heinous and unimaginable as acts like these are, they are all to commonplace in our USA these days, many acts even more heinous than this go unnoticed by the media. It's these weekly acts that see America being one of the most violent societies on the planet with tens of thousands of US citizens shot dead right here at home annually.
A couple weeks ago another white guy named William Hudson shot dead a family of six from Maine and California including a six year old boy that had just moved in next door to his property in Texas. The reason he shot them remains uncertain, but apparently he just didn't like them for becoming his neighbors.
This is terrorism and these perpetrators are white American males with guns. The overseas French religious fanatics are terrorists, and so are these white guys with guns on our home turf. This is an example of white-on-white violence, the most commonplace kind of violence in our country.
This is why the American public should be disarmed, like the public is generally disarmed in England. Our municipal authorities will then be less worried about a violent public and they can disarm too, like in England. Then these weekly atrocities will become almost non-existent. We can be like England, a white protestant country with millions of African, middle eastern, and Asian immigrants many whom are not Protestant. They all live together without this gross violence.
It's all about civility and peace being preferable to violence and fear.
A couple weeks ago another white guy named William Hudson shot dead a family of six from Maine and California including a six year old boy that had just moved in next door to his property in Texas. The reason he shot them remains uncertain, but apparently he just didn't like them for becoming his neighbors.
This is terrorism and these perpetrators are white American males with guns. The overseas French religious fanatics are terrorists, and so are these white guys with guns on our home turf. This is an example of white-on-white violence, the most commonplace kind of violence in our country.
This is why the American public should be disarmed, like the public is generally disarmed in England. Our municipal authorities will then be less worried about a violent public and they can disarm too, like in England. Then these weekly atrocities will become almost non-existent. We can be like England, a white protestant country with millions of African, middle eastern, and Asian immigrants many whom are not Protestant. They all live together without this gross violence.
It's all about civility and peace being preferable to violence and fear.
17
And how, specifically, would you disarm approximately half the US population?
I'm a gun owner, as are many of my friends and neighbors, and we are not about to give up our guns. And there are countless millions of gun owners who feel the same way. And while you're writing this law prohibiting guns, please remember to include criminals because the laws you have now don't seem to deter them in the least.
I'm a gun owner, as are many of my friends and neighbors, and we are not about to give up our guns. And there are countless millions of gun owners who feel the same way. And while you're writing this law prohibiting guns, please remember to include criminals because the laws you have now don't seem to deter them in the least.
1
Australia did it.
What would you do if you are requested to give up you guns, then? Fight?
Enjoy beautiful Vermont, a state with reason.
What would you do if you are requested to give up you guns, then? Fight?
Enjoy beautiful Vermont, a state with reason.
5
I wonder why, even in NYT articles, PP is categorized as an "abortion clinic"; pregnancy termination is one of the services (3%). The vast majority of services are general health care, family planning, prenatal services, general counseling, STI education/treatment...
and re firearms in the U.S. there are the debates (and there should be no debate) re background checks, tighter gun control, etc--- a vast battleground as well. What a mess. Unfortunately, there are too many in congress who are hypocrites and cowards.
and re firearms in the U.S. there are the debates (and there should be no debate) re background checks, tighter gun control, etc--- a vast battleground as well. What a mess. Unfortunately, there are too many in congress who are hypocrites and cowards.
37
I'm sure that his victims would also have preferred to have been left alone...but that, apparently, didn't factor into his lunatic brain.
16
Sounds just like a convert to ISiS but just happened to be here in the USA. Nothing more than a terrorist which is what he should be called.
18
No one has identified the church at which the crazed "Christian" mountain man worshipped every Sunday. Or the Christian soup kitchen and homeless shelter he worked at. Why not?
Of course, since his name is not, say, Al-Maliki, or Sam Goldberg, then he must be "a Christian." Right?
Of course, since his name is not, say, Al-Maliki, or Sam Goldberg, then he must be "a Christian." Right?
11
He read the bible front to back and was quoted as saying he "lived by the bible". I'd call that christian, Charles. Unless they have a different bible there in San Jose that I couldn't possibly know about.
15
Well, he did brag about reading the Bible "cover to cover", so . . .
4
Maybe the description from his wife about his Baptist affiliation, her talking of his Bible reading, the crosses he put on his buildings, and the offense he took from the faked video. Just guessing of course.
You are guessing too that Christians work at soup kitchens and attend services and do not get radicalized by lies on TV and the internet. That is pretty naive at this point. Have you not heard of the many attacks on people who work at PP over the years? Their motivation is religious.
You are guessing too that Christians work at soup kitchens and attend services and do not get radicalized by lies on TV and the internet. That is pretty naive at this point. Have you not heard of the many attacks on people who work at PP over the years? Their motivation is religious.
6
Most disturbing to me beyond the actual murders and injuries by Robt. Dear are the people who have lauded his actions. They are terrorists in our midst who give aid and comfort to those who would take away freedom with violence. The war on women is genuine and Robt. Dear is the trigger man for people like Carly Fiorina rather she likes it or not.
24
In your lead, you indicate that his motives aren't clear, but still you put that under a headline that can only be considered incendiary. A reason for distrust of the msm - stirring the pot when a more moderate approach would work.
6
If you're looking for incendiary statements, there are a wealth of them out there from Republican candidates and pundits over the last few months, and they are considerably more sensationalist and melodramatic than this relatively neutral headline. It's always the shouter who accuses everyone else of speaking too loud.
4
NRA wont allow bans on guns for mentally ill and people flagged as potential terrorists. The Republicans don't want to challenge the NRA so America will continue to bleed and suffer! What a shame.
12
Newsflash! NRA has no legislative authority, so your point is moot, Hans. Take it up with the Supreme Court.
1
Charles – While the NRA may not have legislative authority, they have power in DC. Check out which Congresspersons they support.
7
It's impossible to know whether any single incident could have been prevented by changes in the law or social policy.
However, it's not surprising that the US has, by far, the highest gun homicide rate of any of the developed countries. The US has more guns per capital than any other country on the planet. The US has a more competitive economy--less protection for workers = more stress. The US also is lacking in a robust national health service that provides mental health services to all of it's citizens.
(MORE GUNS + MORE STRESS) - MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES = MORE GUN HOMICIDES ..... that should not be surprising to anyone.
There is no single answer. Firstly, we cannot end all gun homicides. However, other developed countries have found a combination of policies that have cut their per capita gun homicides to a fraction of what the US experiences. It's clear that we have substantial room for improvement.
However, it's not surprising that the US has, by far, the highest gun homicide rate of any of the developed countries. The US has more guns per capital than any other country on the planet. The US has a more competitive economy--less protection for workers = more stress. The US also is lacking in a robust national health service that provides mental health services to all of it's citizens.
(MORE GUNS + MORE STRESS) - MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES = MORE GUN HOMICIDES ..... that should not be surprising to anyone.
There is no single answer. Firstly, we cannot end all gun homicides. However, other developed countries have found a combination of policies that have cut their per capita gun homicides to a fraction of what the US experiences. It's clear that we have substantial room for improvement.
9
Have the Republicans checked to make sure he's not a Syrian refugee? Oh, wait a minute--he's anti-Planned Parenthood and pro gun. So he must be okay then.
18
Is there a republican plan to end the murders with guns epidemic in America? How can someone call themselves a leader and not be able to lead on this issue?
14
The problem, Ed, is how do we implement a "plan" to end murders? You cannot lead people where they don't want to go. And that's the problem. Where (with the gun issue) are we going, and how do we get there?.
Ask the Supreme Court of the United States. They're the leaders.
3
I think I will vote for Carly after reading all of the hateful comments directed at her which she does not deserve. She did not know this man and was no where in sight of the PP facility in Colorado. Poor Carly.
3
Oh, I see. She didn't know him and wasn't there. Great defense.
11
"Poor Carly". Thanks for the laugh!
Go ahead and vote for her, she'll never get anywhere near the White House.
LOL!
Go ahead and vote for her, she'll never get anywhere near the White House.
LOL!
9
She will definitely need your support.
There is nothing wrong with holding people running for President accountable for the accuracy of their words. Especially since it is obvious that cheap political points with the base are endangering everyone else.
There is nothing wrong with holding people running for President accountable for the accuracy of their words. Especially since it is obvious that cheap political points with the base are endangering everyone else.
8
About 270 million guns in the US according to multiple sources on Google
The insanity of the gun lobby:
1. If the military and all police forces launched a synchronized raid they could not get all the guns at one time. Not even close.
2. When the 2nd Amendment was adopted all weapons were single shot muzzle loaders. The founders could never have envisioned the massive destructive firepower in the hands of one lunatic being more powerful than the firepower in the hands of a hundred armed militia men. I have been saying this in these pages since Newtown. They could not have conceived of it as the technology was non-existent – it is why we have to interpret The Constitution in our modern society as opposed to giving it an originalist reading ala Justice Scalia.
3. Some people just love conspiracy theories, and the 'Guvmint' and Hillary coming to take our guns is another tall tale.
4. If these insane magazine capacities were truly limited AND controlled as to how many magazines could be owned etc. That alone would contribute greatly to reducing carnage.
I will accept that people can have all the guns they want if they will accept Muzzleloaders and their inherent limitations – because that is what the founders were writing about.
The insanity of the gun lobby:
1. If the military and all police forces launched a synchronized raid they could not get all the guns at one time. Not even close.
2. When the 2nd Amendment was adopted all weapons were single shot muzzle loaders. The founders could never have envisioned the massive destructive firepower in the hands of one lunatic being more powerful than the firepower in the hands of a hundred armed militia men. I have been saying this in these pages since Newtown. They could not have conceived of it as the technology was non-existent – it is why we have to interpret The Constitution in our modern society as opposed to giving it an originalist reading ala Justice Scalia.
3. Some people just love conspiracy theories, and the 'Guvmint' and Hillary coming to take our guns is another tall tale.
4. If these insane magazine capacities were truly limited AND controlled as to how many magazines could be owned etc. That alone would contribute greatly to reducing carnage.
I will accept that people can have all the guns they want if they will accept Muzzleloaders and their inherent limitations – because that is what the founders were writing about.
11
If a gun's magazine can be considered "insane," imagine what descriptors are needed for the crazed mountain man who loaded the insane magazine into the gun. Words fail me.
4
I am in favor of control laws, but the but the authors of the 2nd amendment were not. They thought citizens should be armed so they could form militias capable of prevailing against military forces. They would have wanted weapons in the hands of citizens to evolve to match those of potential foes. Many Americans regard the amendment as outdated, but the remedy is not "reinterpretation. The amendment say what it says very clearly. The remedy is a constitutional amendment. The temptation to ignore the amendment is tempting, but if you can ignore on freedom guaranteed in the Bill of Rights, you can ignore them all.
Many American consider the 2nd Amendment outdate, but the remedy for that is a constitutional amendment.
Many American consider the 2nd Amendment outdate, but the remedy for that is a constitutional amendment.
The guy was unhinged. No amount of gun control would have stopped him. But more Concealed Carry licensed people might have ended his shooting spree sooner.
1
More "concealed carry licensed people" would mean that some of them would have tempting weapons at hand when they got angry at their domestic partners, mistook the bad guy in a crowd shoot, or decided to do vigilante neighborhood patrol. Or that the gun gets used by one of their children. No thank you, I'd rather live in Canada than in Somalia.
7
Seriously, concealed handgun owners would do a better job then the police???
4
Sorry Mr. President - it is normal for you. It's not normal anywhere else in the developed world, but it's normal for you. And until your craven Congress stands up to the NRA and somehow America's leadership dispels the pernicious myths around the "intrepid individual", nothing will ever, ever, change.
13
There's an old lesson to be taken from this, though law enforcement and social services fail endlessly to take it.
People who engage in violence--even "minor" violence--against family members and domestic animals, and who have contentious or creepy interactions with their neighbors, are somewhere along the spiraling descent into dangerous mental illness.
Someone who had a reasonably successful life; who was at one point in time able to maintain productive business relationships and to value the parent-child relationship--and who then began to isolate himself and to threaten and harass the people around him--was turning into a timebomb.
Someone who shoots a dog that is not rabid or in the midst of attacking another living creature is a troubled and dangerous person.
Some people are terrorists. And terrorists are uniquely talented at manipulating the purposeless and the disturbed into doing their dirty work as disposable pieces of equipment.
Had Mr. Dear's previous actions been vigorously prosecuted as a means of getting him diagnosed and into treatment, he likely wouldn't have ended up here.
To repeat--no violence against other living creatures is minor. It is a symptom of serious dysfunction. It doesn't get better on its own.
People who engage in violence--even "minor" violence--against family members and domestic animals, and who have contentious or creepy interactions with their neighbors, are somewhere along the spiraling descent into dangerous mental illness.
Someone who had a reasonably successful life; who was at one point in time able to maintain productive business relationships and to value the parent-child relationship--and who then began to isolate himself and to threaten and harass the people around him--was turning into a timebomb.
Someone who shoots a dog that is not rabid or in the midst of attacking another living creature is a troubled and dangerous person.
Some people are terrorists. And terrorists are uniquely talented at manipulating the purposeless and the disturbed into doing their dirty work as disposable pieces of equipment.
Had Mr. Dear's previous actions been vigorously prosecuted as a means of getting him diagnosed and into treatment, he likely wouldn't have ended up here.
To repeat--no violence against other living creatures is minor. It is a symptom of serious dysfunction. It doesn't get better on its own.
10
Why do you keep saying his motive is unclear? His motive is OBVIOUS. It is the essential definition of terrorism -- "the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims." I realize that it is not acceptable to say that these Christian fundamentalists want to impose the law of the Bible on everyone else, but stop the charade that there is no motive here.
"If women took up arms to protect their reproductive rights the United States would have banned guns yesterday."
"If women took up arms to protect their reproductive rights the United States would have banned guns yesterday."
29
I think its perfectly acceptable to suggest that self-styled "Christian" extremists want to impose their world view on everybody else. What isn't acceptable is to suggest is that someone like Robert Dear is representative of Christians, any more than an ISIL suicide bomber is representative of Muslims.
3
Too bad this guy didn't find the Whitesboro Baptist church. He would have felt right at home there...or Cliven Bundy's ranch. There has to be a chunk of wilderness out west that could be cordoned off for such upright citizens. It could be even fenced off, for their own protection, of course. They could have their own flag and anthem and everything.
11
Carly Fiorina can be proud, she has blood on her hands, together with many others.
Also, how did this man ever got guns with his history? NRA approved rules?
Perhaps NRA leaders should draft gun ownership rules and be held legally responsible for the consequences?
Also, how did this man ever got guns with his history? NRA approved rules?
Perhaps NRA leaders should draft gun ownership rules and be held legally responsible for the consequences?
26
Grotesque to give this person's crazed ramblings top billing in a front page headline of the NYT.
2
I think we need to know.
12
Maybe people will learn something. There are many lessons in this tragic story.
3
Show of hands; how many here think this cowardly loser would have attacked this clinic if he didn't have access to a gun.
Guns make cowards brave...
Guns make cowards brave...
25
I noted the presence of a TV antenna on top of the trailer.
How ironic are we? We watch lots of TV. On occasion, someone goes berserk because of what they saw on TV, then everyone watches what the guy did, then new nuts do the same thing.
Television is the American social Cancer. It kills.
How ironic are we? We watch lots of TV. On occasion, someone goes berserk because of what they saw on TV, then everyone watches what the guy did, then new nuts do the same thing.
Television is the American social Cancer. It kills.
2
You can add the Internet.
3
C. Simpson.....I don't think so. It's a stupid show.
Seriously, I don't get upset on the internet but I can see how the multimedia experience of Television can hype and draw in the viewers.
Seriously, I don't get upset on the internet but I can see how the multimedia experience of Television can hype and draw in the viewers.
This jerk referred to "no more baby parts", and the Republicans are saying his motive might possibly be related to abortion and planned parenthood. But he's probably just a crazy man, unrelated, of course, to the right-wing candidates call to end "baby murder". Donald Trump does a spastic pantomime while referring to a Times reporter who has a joint disease, but of course the two are not connected in any way. Video evidence, quotes and citations now have no meaning to the Republican party. Soon photosynthesis and the boiling point of water will be just a matter of opinion for them. You know, open to debate.
17
That cover picyure depicting the trailer in the middle of nowhere (looks like the Salt flats) tells a story all its own- desolation, despair and narcissism to say the least. This is yet another good reason why we as humans need socialization, to keep us away from the inner demons that may potentially come to inhabit our mind and thoughts from extended periods of isolation. If anyone thinks that it is he/she 'against the wrold', they had best think again and get some mental help, yet the problem is that loners do not have anyone to be their 'sounding baord', and thus self-delusion occurs. Nothing is ever accomplished by going out and causing a huge amount of destruction, pain and suffering - no perceived enemy monster is vanquished , save in the mind of the self-deluded and onlyy more misery is created.
6
The ground is covered by snow. 'The middle of nowhere' is the Rocky Mountain West. Generally, not as congested as Tampa, but not of itself indicative of desolation, despair or narcissism.
6
If, as suggested by supporters of NRA and 2nd amendment folks, we track all the loners and misfits, AND we improve mental health system, we will spend all our time and effort in chasing our tails and we still won't prevent this kind of tragedy. Anybody can "snap" and nobody knows when. The common denominator that can be controlled is the obscene number of guns.
What bothers me the most is the refusal of the politicians and religious right to take any responsibility that their hateful rhetoric causes these loonies to take action and kill innocent people.
What bothers me the most is the refusal of the politicians and religious right to take any responsibility that their hateful rhetoric causes these loonies to take action and kill innocent people.
6
Only in America are white mass murderers and terrorists described in such glowing prose about their humanity and normalcy. Some how the hatred and violence is an exception that simply does not reflect on their race or religion like it does for everyone else.
11
I thought the article stated the facts plainly and dispassionately, and that it's an example of the exemplary researching and reporting we get from few other papers these days. Clearly NYT had reporters on the ground asking a lot of questions and working hard to track down a lot of people.
The article details a lot of creepy and threatening behavior on Mr. Dear's part, and quotes a man stating he was "a pretty poorly adjusted guy." This is hardly an encomium.
The article details a lot of creepy and threatening behavior on Mr. Dear's part, and quotes a man stating he was "a pretty poorly adjusted guy." This is hardly an encomium.
2
Triggered by that scurrilous video scam. Its creators should be tried aloingside.
22
Do you mean like the maker of that video that was claimed to be the trigger in Benghazi?
1
The perpetrator muttered a number of ramblings but "no more baby parts" is the specific comment that gets leaked? If anyone doesn't see the motive in that, then they will buy beachfront property in Kansas.
7
Thanks, Carly.
19
After reading so many apologists I must repeat. The GOP candidates constant statements deriding Planned Parenthood are interpreted by the zealot driven crazies out there to do as much harm to PP as possible. This is inciting terrorism. Yet, these GOP zealots seem to care less. HOW IN ANY WAY is that practicing being good Christians and loving Jesus? Remember, In most cases these are Christians killing other Christians
17
It's notable that so many politicians have been totally willing to accept the accusations made in the video of Planned Parenthood without first listening to what the organization has to say, and yet these same folks are unwilling to ascribe motives to this latest shooter, saying that *he* hasn't made his motives clear.
Oh well. Sadly, consistency is not the hallmark of our current American debate.
Oh well. Sadly, consistency is not the hallmark of our current American debate.
16
I'm tired of hearing how terrorists like Robert Dear are mentally ill and a loner. There are many millions of people in the world that have mental illness and/or loner tendencies who somehow manage not to commit crimes and infringe on the rights of others to live life as they choose. These men know exactly what they are doing; they are bitter and angry that they can no longer control who does what with their lives and that uppity women and anyone else who isn't a white male have choices. I know plenty of men who feed on a steady diet of right-wing lies and propaganda who would do the same if they thought they could get away with it. So lets stop pretending this man was an outlier. He's not.
22
If Mr. Dear is psychotic it does not absolve the propagandists and exaggerators about "baby parts". Crazy people and the great availability of firearms are the givens in this situation. The lies about the purpose and incentives of the doctors who provide a necessary and legal medical service are not. The far right therefore shares the blame for this new Colorado massacre
11
Should we have additional gun control legislation? Yes. Will it significantly impact gun violence in this nation? Probably not. It is beyond obvious that the killer's motives were his anti-abortion views and that the inflammatory rhetoric of, mostly, Republicans on a deranged mind led to this massacre. Carly Fiorina, the most vocal of the anti-Planned Parenthood haters ,should drop out of the race. I foolishly sent her a small contribution. Not another thin dime from me. And while we are on the subject why is there no federal protection of Planned Parenthood clinics which have been the subject of repeated gun violence? President Obama's eloquence post gun violence has proven useless. Thank you Governor Cuomo for instituting additional protection for Planned Parenthood in our state. Thank you for those brave workers who put their lives on the line to serve and treat women who are exercising their constitutional right of choice.
4
One thing certain: Robert Dear will never again be left alone . . . At least, not the way he'd like to be.
3
We can all picture this isolated, mentally ill guy watching hours of Fox News and being incited to violence by their exaggerations and outright lies. Fox and Republicans--politicians and pundits of all strips-- your words have consequences!!!
15
You assume he has cable in that mountain redoubt, and $100 or more a month to pay for "the package". BTW, what would Liberals do without Fox News? "Send in the whipping boy!"
5
Charles,
You are hilarious. I needed a good laugh. Some of these angry respondents are so depressing. They give me the blues.
You are hilarious. I needed a good laugh. Some of these angry respondents are so depressing. They give me the blues.
Thanks, KMW. My humor is hard-won after several years as a journalist in NYC.
2
We don't know the motive? How long will we keep hearing this nonsense every time murders with easy-to-detect motives happens? the Tsarnaev brothers bombing the Boston Marathon: "motive unknown." This guy in Colorado: "motive unknown." This kind of playing dumb goes even beyond political correctness. Maybe he killed people at a Planned Parenthood clinic so he could impress us all with his forehead-wrinkling ability in the mug shots.
5
The seven deadly sins in their current form are not found in the Bible, however there are biblical antecedents. One such antecedent is found in the Book of Proverbs 6:16-19. Among the verses , it states that the Lord specifically regards seven that are an abomination unto Him", namely:
A proud look
A lying tongue
Hands that shed innocent blood
A heart that devises wicked plots
Feet that are swift to run into mischief
A deceitful witness that uttereth lies
Him that soweth discord among brethren
................
The people that manipulate video and bear false witness about Planned Parenthood have created the potential for deadly discord. Propaganda is a dangerous weapon in a country that is armed. We do not have a well- regulated milita but armed individuals that are: paranoid, delusional, careless, and violent.
We are daily arming a paranoid-milita with both assault weapons and slander.
And then calling that insanity..Freedom.
A proud look
A lying tongue
Hands that shed innocent blood
A heart that devises wicked plots
Feet that are swift to run into mischief
A deceitful witness that uttereth lies
Him that soweth discord among brethren
................
The people that manipulate video and bear false witness about Planned Parenthood have created the potential for deadly discord. Propaganda is a dangerous weapon in a country that is armed. We do not have a well- regulated milita but armed individuals that are: paranoid, delusional, careless, and violent.
We are daily arming a paranoid-milita with both assault weapons and slander.
And then calling that insanity..Freedom.
11
This guy was a rightist loser and a coward.
Remove the gun of on this scenario and Mr. Dear wouldn't have harmed a fly.
But place a gun in his hands and suddenly he finds courage.
The gun is the problem...of course it is.
Guns make gutless rightist boys brave.
Remove the gun of on this scenario and Mr. Dear wouldn't have harmed a fly.
But place a gun in his hands and suddenly he finds courage.
The gun is the problem...of course it is.
Guns make gutless rightist boys brave.
15
Carly Fiorna, thanks! Thanks for disseminating lies and totally wrong information for political gain. Just for your FYI - There are many, many Dears out there, total ignoramuses. Be very careful of such incendiary Political rhetoric. As evinced, there are some real deadly consequences to unsubstantiated rhetoric.
18
Give a Colorado mountain man enough legal pot, hash, and hash oil, and there's no telling how he'll react in a psychotropic haze. Restrict guns? Restrict drugs, they kill far more people than guns.
2
This guy spent his life in SC and NC. He showed up in Hartsel a year ago. I think right wing pap about PP was his drug of choice.
14
So now it's "guns don't kill people, pot kills people"?
Gimme a break, you're starting to sound desperate.
Gimme a break, you're starting to sound desperate.
14
I have known a lot of pot heads in my time. None of them would do what this guy did. To much drama!
4
Another ignorant killer educated by the republican propaganda machine. Everything this murderer knew about medical abortions in America was based on lies delivered by religious fanatics, republican politicians, and their talking heads press corps. Republicans have been on an extreme rant against human rights for long long time now and the psycho's in the country are listening and murdering innocent people at their behest. The gun violence gripping America will eventually come home to roost at the door steps of republicans, maybe they will wake up then.
14
Christian fundamentalist leaders who call legal abortion murder of the unborn and vilify Planned Parenthood and those legislators who oppose any and all forms of gun control cannot deny complicity in this tragic act.
15
Charles, I doubt you have a uterus.
2
Abortion of a fetus that when it has reached the stage of independent viability is illegal and is not practiced by Planned Parenthood. This comment is another example of deliberate distortion and sensational smears designed to put an end to a woman's right to mange her own healthcare under the law.
4
"Just the facts, ma'am":
Check the archives for the revelation by an apostate Exec from Planned Parenthood of Bergen County, NJ, who produced documents in the 1990s showing over 5,000 late-term abortions just in tiny New Jersey, despite PP's oft-repeated claims that such abortions were "rare." Not an anomaly at all for PP.
Check the archives for the revelation by an apostate Exec from Planned Parenthood of Bergen County, NJ, who produced documents in the 1990s showing over 5,000 late-term abortions just in tiny New Jersey, despite PP's oft-repeated claims that such abortions were "rare." Not an anomaly at all for PP.
2
Not all desire for solitude is pathological and it always scares me a little when being a loner is the first thing cited as proof of a mental disturbance. Being a loner is not the cause of those disturbances, although may well be the result, but being suspected of being dangerous just by virtue of being a loner is not fair.
I have a file in CSIS, our version of the CIA, as someone to watch. Why? Because in the eighties during the talks surrounding free trade I took part in creating art for protests against the agreement. In addition I don't own a credit card. I don't buy stuff. I don't own anything and I don't owe anything. Highly suspicious. By the time I retire from my job as community artist I hope to have completed my "off the grid" hobbit house to which I will happily retreat.
Am I dangerous? Should I be watched? Should a social worker come out and assess me? People who know me would laugh at that notion. And yet, there it is. On a government document. A black mark on my file.
People who say America doesn't have a gun problem, it has a mental health problem need to come to terms with the problem of identifying who and who is not mentally ill. So far the parameters seem woefully inadequate at best and downright scary at worst. Watch out Waldon Pond People. Your non participation in society's norms is being duly noted.
I have a file in CSIS, our version of the CIA, as someone to watch. Why? Because in the eighties during the talks surrounding free trade I took part in creating art for protests against the agreement. In addition I don't own a credit card. I don't buy stuff. I don't own anything and I don't owe anything. Highly suspicious. By the time I retire from my job as community artist I hope to have completed my "off the grid" hobbit house to which I will happily retreat.
Am I dangerous? Should I be watched? Should a social worker come out and assess me? People who know me would laugh at that notion. And yet, there it is. On a government document. A black mark on my file.
People who say America doesn't have a gun problem, it has a mental health problem need to come to terms with the problem of identifying who and who is not mentally ill. So far the parameters seem woefully inadequate at best and downright scary at worst. Watch out Waldon Pond People. Your non participation in society's norms is being duly noted.
8
it's time to name names in Congress. the President should hold a televised address to the Union wherein he reads off the names of those Congresspersons rated A++ by the NRA due to their slave-like adherence to LaPierre's murderous tenets. while he's at it, he should call out the CEO's at Browning, Bushmaster, Colt, Remington, Winchester, etc., and demand they face the public, explain their indefensible lobbying efforts & distorted 2nd amendment beliefs , and acknowledge the blood on their hands. the only way to begin to solve this problem is to educate voters on what's really happening. enough is indeed enough.
13
But after all, don’t both sides in American politics surreptitiously take video footage of people they disagree with, then edit the film together to present false narrative, then publish the duplicitous film nationwide, then label their opponents perpetrators of genocide and butchers of innocence while simultaneously encouraging people to ignore opposing points of view and be ready to take up arms against the government? Don’t both sides do it? Isn’t their enough blame to go around without pointing fingers at one political party?
4
Joe, what video have Democrats posted that has incited someone to commit murder? There's no equivalence between the parties. Republicans having been playing on fears and inciting their constituents for decades.
6
Please provide an instance of the democratic "side" doing this.
10
This is a denial of reality. There has been a sea change in the Republican Party. The GOP has created an unholy alliance, a fusion of Tea Party gun rights activists with Christian Evangelists that has adopted a virulent disrespect for a woman's rights to seek healthcare on her own terms. These two extremist groups form the core of today's Republican Party. There is no comparable lethal opposition ..this is far beyond the need for a "fair and balanced" approach. Fingers of blame must be pointed if we are to come together as a nation and reject the madness.
9
I hold Carly Fiorina responsible for this. Her lies and fabrications about Planned Parenthood provoked this man to commit murder.
27
AND the sunrise in the East caused the sunset in the West; news at 11:00.
3
Stop the nut case/loner/mentally disturbed talk. In my small town in upstate New York, I know around ten men who fall into the category of nut case/loner/mentally disturbed individuals. A cross on the home and murdering people for a political reason adds up to a lot more than this. It adds up to Christian terrorism.
15
WhoooWWWeeee! Where do I begin?
Pretty good reporting and very interesting reading. The motive is clear to me; Mr. Dear wanted to kill people with a gun...............pretty simple huh?
It's not good to be a loner. People who are, need to reach out to people. Just start a simple conversation and the rest will follow. Compliments are always a good start.
Angry about something or the world in general, take a walk away from what makes you angry.
As always, the political leaders took advantage of the situation. President Obama remarked that we had to do something about about the military weapons on the street.....yeah! the ones he gave all the police!
AG Lynch really remarked on a lot of points. She got maximum bang for the buck knowing she would be quoted.
Look, the guy was a nut and went berserk killing people with a gun. Keep it all in perspective and don't let everyone take advantage of your anger or fear. Every couple of months, one guy goes berserk and kills. That's one guy out of 311,000,000 Americans.
Keep it real and don't live in fear. You'll be happier.
Pretty good reporting and very interesting reading. The motive is clear to me; Mr. Dear wanted to kill people with a gun...............pretty simple huh?
It's not good to be a loner. People who are, need to reach out to people. Just start a simple conversation and the rest will follow. Compliments are always a good start.
Angry about something or the world in general, take a walk away from what makes you angry.
As always, the political leaders took advantage of the situation. President Obama remarked that we had to do something about about the military weapons on the street.....yeah! the ones he gave all the police!
AG Lynch really remarked on a lot of points. She got maximum bang for the buck knowing she would be quoted.
Look, the guy was a nut and went berserk killing people with a gun. Keep it all in perspective and don't let everyone take advantage of your anger or fear. Every couple of months, one guy goes berserk and kills. That's one guy out of 311,000,000 Americans.
Keep it real and don't live in fear. You'll be happier.
Every time something like this happens I am in awe of the absence of courage of the American TV media's "on-air talent." They are so afraid to offend the NRA or right-wing Christians. Talk about political correctness. But of course none of them compare in cowardice to most members of Congress.
21
This article was not at all necessary. He's a domestic terrorist. No one needs to know his life story. There are much more worthy stories and people the NYT's could write a fluff piece about. Very disappointed by this organization's coverage lately.
6
If he were Muslim and shot up an organization that conflicted with his religious views he would not be labeled as an isolationist. He'd be a terrorist and a religious extremist.
28
What's in a name? Bang bang, you're dead, regardless of the nomenclature or the etiology.
2
In one case, Charles, we go bomb cities full of innocent people, or at the least propose to "clamp down" on anyone of that religion; in the other, we shrug and say, "What's in a name?"
4
If he used the "body parts" scam, those public figures who spread it should be indicted as accessories of some sort.
18
The important point to remember is that if this killer had been (take your pick) Muslim/Middle Eastern descent/Syrian refugee, his act of violence would have further demonstrated that all of his kind are likely to do the same and should be discriminated against.
Since he's a white Christian it's just a case of a troubled loner and nothing more.
Since he's a white Christian it's just a case of a troubled loner and nothing more.
15
While his horrific acts cannot be undone, rather than leap to the conclusion of ideological and religious and Constitutional reasons must be the explanation based solely one a few quotes from neighbors, continue to ask questions and let an actual investigation occur.
These comment boards are here for us, the public, to share our OPINIONS. Until one can be supported by facts, its all meaningless fodder.
These comment boards are here for us, the public, to share our OPINIONS. Until one can be supported by facts, its all meaningless fodder.
3
I hear what you are saying. The problem is that the dots are so connectible. It almost doesn't matter that it was the incendiary rhetoric about Planned Parenthood that set him off, in his state of mind (not good), it would have been something.
To your point, reverse the tables. Had someone in the LGBT community attacked a religious event for reasons not yet known, do you not think the Liberals would be blaming the (R)s for the attack while ardently defending the individual?
2
Blaming conservatives, Republicans or Christians is wrong. We have a First Amendment Right to Freedom of Speech and Religion, to believe what we want, to exercise our conscience according to our beliefs and values. Carly Fiorina is not not responsible for this - despite the many comments - nor is anyone, other than the individual who committed the carnage. This man does not represent the conservative movement, Republicans or Christians. Indeed, what he did is against everything that we stand for. Period.
Only liberalism would seek to "connect dots" in this case - just as Sarah Palin was "responsible" for the shooting of Gabby Giffords by a mental case. Stop playing politics - this is just sick.
Only liberalism would seek to "connect dots" in this case - just as Sarah Palin was "responsible" for the shooting of Gabby Giffords by a mental case. Stop playing politics - this is just sick.
6
Thank you!
2
Nobody is trying to quash anyone else's first amendment rights, Katmandu. What people are asking for is for people to be RESPONSIBLE. People with an ideological disagreement with abortion created a false video, then - even after that video was proven false - public figures used said false video to rile up people who shared their ideology. See what they did, there? They perpetuated falsehoods for political gain. That is what is so outrageous here. People like Fiorina and Cruz are smart human beings, and had to be smart enough to figure out those videos were false propaganda. Yet, they repeated the lies to lather up their uneducated base.
And this shooting a consequence of them throwing around lies for political gain.
And this shooting a consequence of them throwing around lies for political gain.
10
Calling for accountability for repeating lies that incite people while running for the office of President of the US is hardly "wrong". Get Real!!
8
There we go.
Does it really come as a surprise that the target was not accidental but the natural result of the concerted effort to demonize Planned Parenthood by the right-wing?
In particular, David Daleiden, the ideologue who produced the doctored video that is the basis for the rightist campaign of vilification against Planned Parenthood, now has blood on his hands.
His false propaganda video spurned this lunatic to attack Planned Parenthood. So says the lunatic himself.
In this country where the deranged have access to high-powered weaponry, there can be dire consequences for engaging in propaganda and hyper-ventilated rhetoric.
This is a case in point.
I hope Mr. Daleiden takes a long, hard look in the mirror and reconsiders his life choices.
But, then again, being a rightist and a fanatic, self-reflection does not likely come easily to him.
Does it really come as a surprise that the target was not accidental but the natural result of the concerted effort to demonize Planned Parenthood by the right-wing?
In particular, David Daleiden, the ideologue who produced the doctored video that is the basis for the rightist campaign of vilification against Planned Parenthood, now has blood on his hands.
His false propaganda video spurned this lunatic to attack Planned Parenthood. So says the lunatic himself.
In this country where the deranged have access to high-powered weaponry, there can be dire consequences for engaging in propaganda and hyper-ventilated rhetoric.
This is a case in point.
I hope Mr. Daleiden takes a long, hard look in the mirror and reconsiders his life choices.
But, then again, being a rightist and a fanatic, self-reflection does not likely come easily to him.
20
Blood on his hands? Laughable if it weren't so wrong an ironic.
2
Thank you for putting this so clearly.
5
Not much to laugh about here, Mike. But if you think there's no connection between the lies spouted by the right about Planned Parenthood and this tragedy, then you need a reality check big-time.
4
Bottom line: This is tragic, indeed, but you can't plan for crazy.
2
Is there really any question that this man suffered from severe mental illness? With timely and appropriate care we might have prevented this tragedy. And more importantly we could prevent all such horrors in the future if we understand the root causes of serious mental illnesses and funded scientific research into these brain diseases we could eradicate these biological brain diseases.
All victims (included this crazed, sick man) would be saved from the awful results of schizophrenia, depression and the myriad of other neurological dis-eases.
eeases.l
All victims (included this crazed, sick man) would be saved from the awful results of schizophrenia, depression and the myriad of other neurological dis-eases.
eeases.l
Dear Robert Dear. Like Garbo, he wanted to be left alone. Yet he would not allow others to do the same? Another good bible-thumping "Pro Life" Christian whom I suppose can claim he was only following "God's Will", according to his religion, distorted as that version may be.
This terrible act may lead to calling for an immediate rounding up of suspect like-minded Christians, oui? Not ALL Christians, mind you. No one is against ALL Christians, just the ones who threaten President Obama. I know it's not politically correct these days to say it but there are many Christians out there who feel, think, and may act as violently as dear Mister Dear did. Who is to say which Christian may next take up the sword due to a misinterpretation of what Fire and Brimstone Jesus Christ really meant? Christians overall are a joyous lot. Many of them whom I got to know are good people, who love the U.S. of A., and abide by its laws. I've befriended a few and even had some over to my house.
It's only takes a few bad apple Christians out there to spoil it for all Christians. We need to reacquaint them with a God of Love, a God of Peace, the God most Christians claim to believe in. Others are calling for surveillance of churches but I think this creates disharmony. Let us instead reach out to Christians during their upcoming celebration of Christmas, the birth of Jesus, and extend a loving hand of understanding. Most of them love our country as much as we do.
DD
Manhattan
This terrible act may lead to calling for an immediate rounding up of suspect like-minded Christians, oui? Not ALL Christians, mind you. No one is against ALL Christians, just the ones who threaten President Obama. I know it's not politically correct these days to say it but there are many Christians out there who feel, think, and may act as violently as dear Mister Dear did. Who is to say which Christian may next take up the sword due to a misinterpretation of what Fire and Brimstone Jesus Christ really meant? Christians overall are a joyous lot. Many of them whom I got to know are good people, who love the U.S. of A., and abide by its laws. I've befriended a few and even had some over to my house.
It's only takes a few bad apple Christians out there to spoil it for all Christians. We need to reacquaint them with a God of Love, a God of Peace, the God most Christians claim to believe in. Others are calling for surveillance of churches but I think this creates disharmony. Let us instead reach out to Christians during their upcoming celebration of Christmas, the birth of Jesus, and extend a loving hand of understanding. Most of them love our country as much as we do.
DD
Manhattan
10
I believe it is the relentless barrage of hateful speech by prominent right-wing politicians and media personalities on Planned Parenthood that tips a few people like Robert Dear to do what they do. They bear quite a bit of the moral responsibility for the tragedy in Colorado.
I also hope that politicians on the other side do not exploit this tragedy to advance gun control agendas. To do so will be to obfuscate the primary cause of this tragedy. Guns are secondary here.
I also hope that politicians on the other side do not exploit this tragedy to advance gun control agendas. To do so will be to obfuscate the primary cause of this tragedy. Guns are secondary here.
7
As long as the police and the military can carry assault rifles, civilians should be able to, too. An armed government + unarmed civilians = totalitarianism.
3
I'm surprised the NYTimes posted this. You should feel lucky. It's a good point, but a better idea is to deescalate the arming and militarization of police. What happened to the good old guy walking a beat tipping his hat to everyone?
2
When will white males apologize for all these attacks in our country? It's all their fault, isn't it? Or is it possible that the people who abet and perform attacks are guilty, and not the whole race or ethnic group to which they happen to belong?
8
Don't wander off-script. "Domestic Terrorism" and "Christian Terrorism" are the prevailing Democrat tropes. Like a big time Democrat said a few years ago, "Never let a national tragedy go to waste."
2
You misquote the fellow, Charles. But I can certainly see that republicans take it to heart as you cite it. Bush Jr. managed to get invasions, occupations, immense profits for Halliburton and such, and huge deficits out of the tragedy he exploited. It was a gift that keeps on giving, so to speak, for such as he.
2
Why always the in depth profile of the shooter? It seems irrelevant and a distraction from the primary reason - lax gun control.
5
I want to try to resist pairing with too broad a brush. Nevertheless, the anti abortion movement has a clear pattern, from the grassroots level all the way up to GOP leadership, of systematic intimidation against Planned Parenthood & their peers. It's hard to separate this lone wolf character from that context.
As the facts are slowly tricking in, it's clear the fetal tissue controversy is related.
As the facts are slowly tricking in, it's clear the fetal tissue controversy is related.
15
Once again the Left exploits the actions of a madman to impugn all Christians, gun owners, and persons with pro-life views. Do you own a 22 for shooting rabbits in your garden, go to church on Sunday, and get queasy at the thought of the elective abortion of a 24 week-old fetus? According to many NYT commenters, you might as well have been loading this sick man's gun and pointing out targets for him. You are a ticking time bomb yourself and an enabler to anyone anywhere who commits an atrocity. You made this happen. The blood is on your hands.
Such is the reasoning of a group of people who delight in congratulating themselves as rational and fair-minded.
Such is the reasoning of a group of people who delight in congratulating themselves as rational and fair-minded.
4
"Once again the Left exploits the actions of a madman to impugn all Christians, gun owners, and persons with pro-life views"
Kind of like the entire rightwing does with muslims.
PS: aborting a 24 week fetus is an exception and is rare. This is why we cannot seem to have an intelligent discussion on the subject. For pro-lifers, it is not about an abortion of developing cells before 20 weeks - which make up 99% of all abortions they want to talk about. No, they go straight to the 1% of late term abortions. Did you know that of that 1%, these are not just a convenience thing? Women in countries where abortion is illegal have died on the operating table because a fetus that was already dead in her womb could not be aborted.
Please, get your facts straight and move away from the hyperbolic "elective abortion of a 24 week fetus" talk, because it is ridiculous.
Kind of like the entire rightwing does with muslims.
PS: aborting a 24 week fetus is an exception and is rare. This is why we cannot seem to have an intelligent discussion on the subject. For pro-lifers, it is not about an abortion of developing cells before 20 weeks - which make up 99% of all abortions they want to talk about. No, they go straight to the 1% of late term abortions. Did you know that of that 1%, these are not just a convenience thing? Women in countries where abortion is illegal have died on the operating table because a fetus that was already dead in her womb could not be aborted.
Please, get your facts straight and move away from the hyperbolic "elective abortion of a 24 week fetus" talk, because it is ridiculous.
16
Just look at their teensy weensy slate of presidential candidates. Great grandpa, a discredited Maryland (Baltimore) governor, and Queen Hillary. That's "Choice"? How telling.
2
I assume Mr. Dear registered to vote 1 year ago in Colorado when he changed his driver's license from his previous state to Colorado. At that point, in this interaction with state government, his "mental health" was judged sufficient to drive a motor vehicle--and, of course, vote.
It will be very difficult to come up with reasonable ideas which could have identified Mr. Dear as a threat to commit mass murder. Thousands of solitary people who "live off the grid" have more guns, make more threatening posts on various internet sites and attend regular protests against whatever extreme cause has caught their attention--unfortunately often the same protests organized by groups such as Focus on the Family which contends its protest language and behaviour is peaceful and does not exhort the mentally disturbed to use guns in the service of its cause.
I am grateful to the many donors to Planned Parenthood who pay for the extensive security past attacks by the "mentally disturbed with guns and bombs" has made necessary. I am especially grateful to law enforcement people who may have put aside their personal beliefs to protect Planned Parenthood clinics in their communities. And, my sincere gratitude goes to the staff of this clinic and all the Planned Parenthood clinics for their courage in simply coming to work each day knowing these type of attacks are likely.
It will be very difficult to come up with reasonable ideas which could have identified Mr. Dear as a threat to commit mass murder. Thousands of solitary people who "live off the grid" have more guns, make more threatening posts on various internet sites and attend regular protests against whatever extreme cause has caught their attention--unfortunately often the same protests organized by groups such as Focus on the Family which contends its protest language and behaviour is peaceful and does not exhort the mentally disturbed to use guns in the service of its cause.
I am grateful to the many donors to Planned Parenthood who pay for the extensive security past attacks by the "mentally disturbed with guns and bombs" has made necessary. I am especially grateful to law enforcement people who may have put aside their personal beliefs to protect Planned Parenthood clinics in their communities. And, my sincere gratitude goes to the staff of this clinic and all the Planned Parenthood clinics for their courage in simply coming to work each day knowing these type of attacks are likely.
32
Well written. The Planned Parenthood teams face this risk everyday despite the fact that most of their services go to birth control, health screenings, and women's health services. I'm not looking forward to putting the decision of availability of access to the Supreme Court. Terrifying.
8
This past weel saw two instances that should have the so called "pro life" movememt motivated. In NYC a mother abandoned her new born son, umbilical cord still attached, at a church. In Los Angeles a mother buried her new born daughter alive. I'm waiting, but not holding my breath, for the "pro-lifers" to begin a campaign that would see these children, brought to term as they desire, adopted by pro life families so that they don't end up in the system with the possibility that they will become "burdens on society". I'm waiting, but I'm not holding my breath.
14
1. It is the nature of the pro-life movement to abhor violence, especially to the unprotected, such as infants and unborn humans. The violence you describe is that of people with a low regard for the human-ness of the young, which would more accurately describe pro-choice movement.
2. Many institutions that oppose abortion, such as Catholic Charities and crisis abortion centers, either provide adoption placement services or have referral information on them. Adoption as an alternative to abortion is a standard argument made by pro-life groups.
2. Many institutions that oppose abortion, such as Catholic Charities and crisis abortion centers, either provide adoption placement services or have referral information on them. Adoption as an alternative to abortion is a standard argument made by pro-life groups.
2
I heard a wonderful pro-life story on TV last evening. A mother insisted her daughter abort her child 37 years ago, but the saline solution failed to kill the baby twice. I do not recall how many weeks the baby was when this occurred, but within the approved time. Two nurses entered the abortion room and saw what had happened and let this tiny human being live. This baby was adopted by a couple who were not able to conceive and this grown woman had advanced degrees and was a pro-life public speaker. It was a heartwarming story and she adored her adopted parents and was also able to finally connect with her birth mother who had believed for many years that she had been killed. My point of this story is that there are people in the pro-life movement who are willing to assist pregnant women as these two nurses demonstrated. The media and pro abortion folks do want to hear and believe this happens. This woman is living proof.
Why is Carly Fiorina not being prosecuted for inciting terrorism?
22
Good point. Wasn't it she who spread the spurious story about PP's selling baby parts?""
5
Let's stop giving media attention to these deranged people. It only fuels the fire for others seeking notoriety. We don't care about his history, unfortunately there are way too many like him and they have no trouble arming themselves.
Americans have become increasingly wary of going to public places, whether the mall, the movies, women's health or abortion clinics, etc. It's now commonplace to hear people question weather it's safe to be at these places...they usually go anyway, but in the back of their minds they are worried and on alert when there. That is terrorism, and what fear does to people. It's not paranoia, it's common sense based on reality. And they are mostly afraid of what American terrorists armed with semi-automatic weapons might do, not ISIS.
19
Here's a modest proposal - for those who are pro-life and not merely pro-birth, all pregnancies should be treated, for legal purposes, as a hostage situation in which the pregnant woman has taken a hostage within her womb. If she decides she does not want the baby, the authorities should take her out with a sniper, rescue the baby, and make sure one of their supporters takes on the responsibility of rearing that baby to adulthood.
Or, back in the real world, pro-birth folks out their could stop storming Planned Parenthood clinics, realize that as of today Roe v. Wade is still the law of the land until nonviolent legislative channels decide otherwise.
Or, back in the real world, pro-birth folks out their could stop storming Planned Parenthood clinics, realize that as of today Roe v. Wade is still the law of the land until nonviolent legislative channels decide otherwise.
4
Nice fact gathering. Where in this article is the label, "terrorist"? Because that's what this fanatic is, a (domestic) terrorist.
6
Mr. Dear was apparently a good and sane man at one time. This is why even universal background checks will not prevent a tragedy such as this. Background checks cannot look forward in time to when your mental state has been altered. This is why hand guns and military weapons should not be carried by anyone other than law enforcement.
After living in Canada, Australia and Norway it quite apparent to me that a country free of handguns (let alone assault weapons) is a much safer place.
It is too bad that the US is not capable of learning from the likes of England, Japan and others where gun ownership, gun deaths and murder in general are minimal.
In this case it would seem that extreme GOP rhetoric combined with a weak mind and available guns to create a perfectly predictable tragedy.
Cue equally predictable attacks on Muslims, refugees, immigrants and other groups hated by the right and now under constant verbal assault by the Republican 'presidential' candidates.
After living in Canada, Australia and Norway it quite apparent to me that a country free of handguns (let alone assault weapons) is a much safer place.
It is too bad that the US is not capable of learning from the likes of England, Japan and others where gun ownership, gun deaths and murder in general are minimal.
In this case it would seem that extreme GOP rhetoric combined with a weak mind and available guns to create a perfectly predictable tragedy.
Cue equally predictable attacks on Muslims, refugees, immigrants and other groups hated by the right and now under constant verbal assault by the Republican 'presidential' candidates.
19
Actually he had a few interactions with police although it is not clear if, occuring in Carolina and yrs ago, it might not have made it into the system.
Isn't it time to focus on domestic terrorists?
8
Yeah like the well organized crime families. This guy was a lone nutjob.
1
Will anyone have the courage to remind Carly Fiorina that yelling 'fire' in a theater is not an exercise of free speech, that referencing a doctored film is morally and intellectually dishonest, that embracing a lie for the purpose of attracting a slice of the voting public is despicable, and that discarding the blatant knowledge that some of those who embrace her lies as truths are armed and unhinged all evidence her absence of moral principles. She enabled this crime to happen. She should be held accountable.
26
Almost everything you say applies even more so to Hillary. "Aye, there's the rub." Your only candidate is badly tarnished, like her husband before her in their Ozark Dynasty.
Charles, how's your uterus?
2
Forget about gun control. Focus on getting rid of the bullets, which do the killings. There is nothing in the second amendment about the right to bear bullets.
5
Men concerned about fetal tissue or 'baby parts" should spend their time educating their sex on birth control. Are men stepping up to make sure a woman doesn't get pregnant? Robert Dear spend your time on that.
19
"The horse has been stolen! Lock the barn!"
2
Charles,
Funny but oh so true.
Funny but oh so true.
I believe we have 300 million guns in the U.S. A gun for nearly everyone. If you issued a hand grenade to every other person in the U.S., how many of the bombs would be exploded each week in an inappropriate manner? Would it make us safer if we made sure that ALL of us had hand grenades?
3
The Republican Party has become a party of lies and this man's behavior was a product of those lies. Lies about the President. We see him handing out anti-Obama pamphlets Lies about Planned Parenthood. We see him responding to the film that Republican candidates embraced. Lies about the statistics regarding guns and murder. There is no way to have rational or reasonable political discourse when one party is committed to lies as a way to govern.
17
Dear may have preferred to be left alone, but he doesn't seem to want to allow other people this preference.
9
We've flooded this country with guns and ammo, and paramilitary gear including flak vests.
We've flooded it with military training and rifle ranges and "combat handgunning," schools, not to mention endless moves and TV shows glorifying military tactics.
We've flooded it with the most extreme anti-government rhetoric, screaming about "Second Amendment remedies," screaming about going for head shots with the FBI and ATF (thanks, G. Gordon!), screaming about the President's being a tyrant and it's time we took our country back, screaming about how everybody needs to get back to Gawd and let's hang gay people, screaming about Planned Parenthood.
And then, we're shocked, shocked when a lonely nutter who loves his Bible and his guns and has a problem with women goes and shoots up a women's health clinic and kills people, doing exactly what we've handed him the means, motives and opportunity to do.
We've flooded it with military training and rifle ranges and "combat handgunning," schools, not to mention endless moves and TV shows glorifying military tactics.
We've flooded it with the most extreme anti-government rhetoric, screaming about "Second Amendment remedies," screaming about going for head shots with the FBI and ATF (thanks, G. Gordon!), screaming about the President's being a tyrant and it's time we took our country back, screaming about how everybody needs to get back to Gawd and let's hang gay people, screaming about Planned Parenthood.
And then, we're shocked, shocked when a lonely nutter who loves his Bible and his guns and has a problem with women goes and shoots up a women's health clinic and kills people, doing exactly what we've handed him the means, motives and opportunity to do.
20
As usual these days, the real tragedy in these cases is that so many mentally-ill people reach the point where they see firing a gun at people they don't know will somehow help them. It's a cultural phenomenon unique to the US and speaks to a host of social problems. not the least of which is mental health practices, lax gun laws, and criminally myopic politicians.
5
I wonder if the people who made the Planned Parenthood tapes are happy now.
20
Maybe he preferred to be left alone but he didn't leave others alone. It does not appear bible reading did much good for his moral character.
8
another very serious mental health problem that will be interpreted to support several political agendas, not least the PP agenda. For an example, just look at the headline for the story in todays NYT.
The NRA is closed for the weekend and their executives are devoutly praying for the dead and wounded in the Planned Parenthood massacre. I expect Monday they will advise Planned Parenthood to exercise their 2nd amendment rights and arm themselves. They will also offer advice as to proper choice of weapons based on rate of fire, dependability and kill power. They may offer discounts on the cool tactile gear that many of their members favor. They will aid Planned Parenthood in defending themselves against attackers, whether terrorist or right-wing insurrectionist or both, whether the attacker is a member of the well-regulated militia with the secret headquarters address or a lone-wolf, FOX news inspired nut-case like Dear. Thank you NRA for helping in the battle for women's health and rights.
7
When I read the account of Mr. Dear my first thought was "I know him". Not literally, but over the past several decades I've come into contact with countless people like him. Angry loaners, upset with society and difficult to deal with, they rant and rage against "injustice" and people in general. Most of them die relatively young and alone, having been a nuisance to society but nothing more. But then there's the exception, as Mr. Dear proves. What is difficult, I suggest impossible, is sorting out the simply obnoxious from the dangerous. It appears something just "snaps", and they cross the line with little or no warning. And if anyone doubts we are living with such people in every community ask a local police officer if he/she has concerns about some people. I guarantee they will because these folks are everywhere.
7
As Americans we have the right to unrestricted access to media information. However, I strongly feel that repeated information about gun violence and mass murderers allows for copy cat crimes. We are all, in some ways, responsible for the devastating murder rates in the US.
2
I wish the Times wouldn't spend so much time chronicling the life of a hate-filled murderer. It gives him the attention he so clearly craves. I'd rather them focus on the victims whose lives were brutally and abruptly ended
4
I believe this man did not prefer to be alone it just happened. People need people (remember the Barbra Streisand song) and want a sense of community. In NYC there are a lot of lonely people and they do not like this situation. He needed a support system and there was none. He needed to reach out to someone for help but was too sick to do so. I am sure we will discover he suffered from major depression which immobilized him. He is a pathetic person who was his own worst enemy.
1
too bad he wasn't a bit more immobilized before terrifying a community and murdering people.
4
So this is the kind of person who thinks he can decide what women can do with their own bodies? Figures. He belongs with one of the mentally deranged terrorist groups in the middle east, not gunning people down in America.
9
Apologists of the murderer blame the heavily edited fake videos. Their crude reasoning is it took a murder act to stop wide spread murder. But their definition of murder is NOT based on US law. They support violence instead of political means to force their religious beliefs on the rest of us. Using violence for political means is by definition terrorism.
Planned Parenthood was investigated. It was determined no illegal activity took place, murder or otherwise. The authorities brought no indictments according to the US Law backed by the US Constitution.
I do not know where religious bigots got the idea that abortion of fetuses is akin to murder of children. The Bible could not have been any more clear on this. The heinous crime of beating a pregnant woman to abort her fetus is punishable by a fine to her husband according to the Bible. However murder is a capital offence in the Bible based on the principle of an eye for an eye. You take a life you lose yours.
Republican politicians such as Fiorina and really ALL of them who ganged up on the good people of Planned Parenthood with falsehoods are co-responsible for these murders not just the lunatic who pulled the trigger.
Who gains from all of this? President Putin, Salman of Saudi Arabia, the Koch brothers, Tillerson CEO of Exxon Mobil, and coal baron Blankenship. They are all laboring to weaken the effort currently under way in Paris. They prefer we are thinking of ANYTHING other than Climate Change.
Planned Parenthood was investigated. It was determined no illegal activity took place, murder or otherwise. The authorities brought no indictments according to the US Law backed by the US Constitution.
I do not know where religious bigots got the idea that abortion of fetuses is akin to murder of children. The Bible could not have been any more clear on this. The heinous crime of beating a pregnant woman to abort her fetus is punishable by a fine to her husband according to the Bible. However murder is a capital offence in the Bible based on the principle of an eye for an eye. You take a life you lose yours.
Republican politicians such as Fiorina and really ALL of them who ganged up on the good people of Planned Parenthood with falsehoods are co-responsible for these murders not just the lunatic who pulled the trigger.
Who gains from all of this? President Putin, Salman of Saudi Arabia, the Koch brothers, Tillerson CEO of Exxon Mobil, and coal baron Blankenship. They are all laboring to weaken the effort currently under way in Paris. They prefer we are thinking of ANYTHING other than Climate Change.
12
It's time we started calling this murderous rampage and the Charleston killings what they are: domestic terrorism.
16
And what difference will that make?
"No more baby parts"? I think that the terrorist's motive was very clear!
7
He should be asked where he got the information about "baby parts," and those sources should be told, so they know the effect of their actions when they make up such things.
9
The phrase "baby parts" is a clear reference to the highly edited, intentionally misleading videos meant to falsely accuse Planned Parenthood of America of selling "baby parts" to enrich itself.
GOP presidential candidates like Carly Fiorina who irresponsibly seized upon the completely discredited videos to drum up unfounded anger and unjustified support have blood on their hands.
GOP presidential candidates like Carly Fiorina who irresponsibly seized upon the completely discredited videos to drum up unfounded anger and unjustified support have blood on their hands.
26
Planned Parenthood's President has a net worth of $4 million, and makes $400,000.00 per year from the "non-profit." So make your own videos, it costs next to nothing, as we've seen.
"Ex-Wife Says Robert Dear Showed Few Signs of Obsession".
This woman is as delusional or ignorant as Jerry Sandusky's wife.
This woman is as delusional or ignorant as Jerry Sandusky's wife.
10
Exactly. Getting thrown out a window is not just some flukey behavior of "a gentle giant" . I would use her as a character reference anytime soon.
4
Let's call this guy what he is: a terrorist. And let's ask a key question: Why didn't the police take him down instead of talking him down when he was shooting up a commercial area? They take down black people for lesser offenses. Lastly, why did this business last hours? Because he was targeting a Planned Parenthood office rather than a Wal-Mart? How does law enforcement make these decisions, and why?
12
Hey I would have been perfectly ok with police shooting him down like a dog. Let me guess, you're anti-capital punishment though, right?
Mental illness is closely tied with less involvement in the community. American society has taken many steps away from community life since WWII. 75 years ago people knew what their neighbors were up to, and that sense of community created a safety net of sorts which limited the number of people who became socially disaffected. Tight community may be stifling and repressive, but what we're seeing now is the alternative. People like Mr Dear are not integrated into the community. As a result, their mental problems become far worse, and they become ticking time bombs. Then they latch onto some extremist propaganda that gives them 'purpose' and a feeling of belonging. Then they attack the rest of society. The same could be said for many of the terrorists in the past 10 years. It's good to see the youngest generation of American adults are now trying to reclaim and rebuild American community.
4
He was, in a very real sense, integrated into a community - the community of beliefs binding anti-abortion extremists.
Community is not just physical proximity, nor even superficial similarities. The novelist Kurt Vonnegut wrote of wampeters and granfalloons. The latter are just such pseudo-communities; the former often coalesce around an unexpected or unorthodox core, but they are genuine. Everyone who has relatives in Grand Forks would probably be a granfalloon; model train enthusiasts, probably a wampeter. Many groupings fall in between, such as membership in an ethnic group. And wampeters are not always positive - I would class anti-abortion zealotry, along with Islamicist fundamentalism, Maoism, and similar true-believer ideologies, as possible examples of negative wampeters. Though they could be granfalloons - that is, the belief itself is superficial - in that Eric Hoffer, in his masterwork on The True Believer, observes how easily the Believer personality may shift from one belief to another, sometimes quite opposite, e.g. the zealous Nazi becomes the zealous Stalinist. It is the intensity of belief, rather than the belief itself, that counts. This guy was looking for something to believe in, to care about. Unfortunately, this is what he found.
Community is not just physical proximity, nor even superficial similarities. The novelist Kurt Vonnegut wrote of wampeters and granfalloons. The latter are just such pseudo-communities; the former often coalesce around an unexpected or unorthodox core, but they are genuine. Everyone who has relatives in Grand Forks would probably be a granfalloon; model train enthusiasts, probably a wampeter. Many groupings fall in between, such as membership in an ethnic group. And wampeters are not always positive - I would class anti-abortion zealotry, along with Islamicist fundamentalism, Maoism, and similar true-believer ideologies, as possible examples of negative wampeters. Though they could be granfalloons - that is, the belief itself is superficial - in that Eric Hoffer, in his masterwork on The True Believer, observes how easily the Believer personality may shift from one belief to another, sometimes quite opposite, e.g. the zealous Nazi becomes the zealous Stalinist. It is the intensity of belief, rather than the belief itself, that counts. This guy was looking for something to believe in, to care about. Unfortunately, this is what he found.
4
Enough is enough. Let us try to put and end to this senseless violence. If you are serious that background checks should be done for gun purchases then take an oath and vote for representatives who support background checks for gun purchase.
4
wow - that guy is really crazy. we need more treatment for mental illness paid for by the 1%.
2
After reading the article, it seems to be quite obvious that Mr. Dear has some mental health problems. People cannot tell his true motivation of the shooting, or is it the choice of Planned Parenthood is just kind of random thing. But sure thing is if the gun control can be well implemented, such incidents will happen much less frequent.
One of the ironies of this tragedy is that Officer Swasey, who lost his life trying to help the people under attack at Planned Parenthood, was reportedly a pro-life Christian pastor.
5
And while I personally am firmly pro-choice, I feel profound gratitude to him for putting his professional calling ahead of his personal opinions in order to protect his community and the people within it. I wish it was not a sacrifice he was forced to make.
Everyone needs to stop pretending this is just a "lone wolf" person with mental illness. This man and his actions are the direct result of 24/7 lies about Planned Parenthood coming from right wing propaganda outlets like fox and talk radio programs, from Republican politicians, and from the disgraceful liars who made videos that are shoddy propaganda intended to illicit EXACTLY this kind of response. The video producers should be charged as accomplices to this act of terrorism. And everyone with a shred of decency should renounce and shun the vile and disgusting politicians who use such filthy lies to stir up fear and hate.
15
This comes down to our country's lack of civil discourse. Hate speech and rants: xenophobic, anti-minority, anti-women often wrapped in the "sacred scriptures" of the Bible. It's clear that this individual was already on the edge - a frustrated, alienated loner who probably heard too much uncivil ranting on TV and radio. He apparently didn't go to church, although read the Bible "cover to cover to cover". He had the cross displayed prominently on his property. He knew how to shoot. He hunted back in his old home state and probably in CO after he came here. The gun was probably not new. How do you stop hate speech from becoming so inflammatory that it feeds people like this? It gets worse not better. We call it hate speech when it affects minorities and LGBT people. We don't label it that way when aimed at groups who are providing services permitted under the law. This was a hate crime, pure and simple and you can trace it directly back to the way our society allows freedom of speech to provide platforms for horrible statements, videos and lies. You can trace it back to how our press tries to maintain neutrality and not call these liars out. And you can trace it directly back to our right to bear arms to provide people with the ability to act on those hateful thoughts.
This guy will get the justice he deserves, but the people who continue to encourage this type of action will still be out there spewing invective to those who are encouraged to listen and act.
This guy will get the justice he deserves, but the people who continue to encourage this type of action will still be out there spewing invective to those who are encouraged to listen and act.
8
We should be seeing photos of Carly Fiorina and the producers of the fake PP video perp walked into prison. They are just as culpable as this madman.
16
Background checks will help for guys/gals like this, but requiring exclusive permits for all semi-automatic handguns and assault rifles, and shotguns, is the only way to end this carnage.
10
When and how can we hold politicians responsible for libelous statements that end up creating scenarios in the heads of fanatics?
The GOP line up keeps repeating the lies about Planned Parenthood and the cobbled together video that has been discredited by Attorney Generals in many states in courts of law. No matter- they keep repeated incendiary stuff to people who don't care about the truth.
They are endangering not only women who go to PP for healthcare, they are endangering everyone else. Is there legal recourse available because the GOP candidates should know that they are creating this atmosphere and the people in far away communities like mine are burying people. Stop it.
The GOP line up keeps repeating the lies about Planned Parenthood and the cobbled together video that has been discredited by Attorney Generals in many states in courts of law. No matter- they keep repeated incendiary stuff to people who don't care about the truth.
They are endangering not only women who go to PP for healthcare, they are endangering everyone else. Is there legal recourse available because the GOP candidates should know that they are creating this atmosphere and the people in far away communities like mine are burying people. Stop it.
12
"No more baby parts- except for those that lie in the wombs of the women I gun down." A very sick man whose illness metastasized through lies fanned by those who should know better.
13
So then, you're saying that if a it's destroyed by a lunatic then it's a baby, but if it's destroyed by a licensed medical professional it's a fetus? How does that work exactly?
You're missing the point... which is that the "reverence for life" of abortion foes has curious exemptions. It seems to apply only to the unborn, for example.
4
"No more baby parts suspect is said to have said."
Keep fanning the flames NYT. Keep making this guy out to be a "pro-life" representative. He is crazy, plain and simple. We might find out even clinical once he's been evaluated. But why wait for all the facts when you are pushing an agenda? I'm pro choice myself. But I still recognize agenda pushing journalism when I see it. More subtle, but it is the same as the false statements made against planned parent hood. It is dangerous and irresponsible no matter what "side" you are on.
Keep fanning the flames NYT. Keep making this guy out to be a "pro-life" representative. He is crazy, plain and simple. We might find out even clinical once he's been evaluated. But why wait for all the facts when you are pushing an agenda? I'm pro choice myself. But I still recognize agenda pushing journalism when I see it. More subtle, but it is the same as the false statements made against planned parent hood. It is dangerous and irresponsible no matter what "side" you are on.
3
"Keep fanning the flames" is exactly what the GOP/FOX news has been doing right along in its demonizing PP.
This is squarely the "baby parts" blabber that even Carly Fiorina uses to stir up the crowds. Yes, the guy is clearly crazy. And yes, he sounds motivated by stuff people like Fiorina choose to say, even knowing what they are saying is false. Reporting the results is not the fault of journalists.
This is squarely the "baby parts" blabber that even Carly Fiorina uses to stir up the crowds. Yes, the guy is clearly crazy. And yes, he sounds motivated by stuff people like Fiorina choose to say, even knowing what they are saying is false. Reporting the results is not the fault of journalists.
8
How is the Times - or any other journalistic enterprise - pushing an agenda by reporting on what this murderer is credibly alleged to have said? If anything, there has been an over abundance of caution on reporting his alleged motivations. This has lead to someone bizarre headlines like "Planned Parenthood Shooter May Have Been Anti-Abortion." Are there are ever PP shooters or PP clinic attackers who are not anti-abortion?
There have always been paranoid schizophrenics. In the past, some of them even had rifles. The difference is, now they have automatic weapons.
5
No more lies about Planned Parenthood. No more politicians giving false moral missions. No more laws written by or for the NRA. No more towns referenced by the mass killing that took place there.
14
This guy apparently didn't even have a TV.
To say he was influenced by the videos is a leap of faith at best if not out right propaganda.
He should not have been sold a gun for sure..so who sold or gave him the gun?
To say he was influenced by the videos is a leap of faith at best if not out right propaganda.
He should not have been sold a gun for sure..so who sold or gave him the gun?
1
Apparently he had enough connectivity to oppose President Obama and solicit for perverted sex on the Internet . With all his little second homes, he wasn't always living off the grid.
5
The real issue no one is looking at is what created this monster? His issues were religious in his 50s. Were they in his 30s? Men like this always find issues they can settle into to twist into a "cause." They begin their lives in states that pay what cannot remotely be called, "living wages" and live an early adulthood in deprivation they know and feel until they seethe with rage.
It doesn't help that you have bigots and fundamentalists knowingly inciting these mental defectives. Couple that inciting these unbalanced individuals as Chaffetz did when he dared to show an edited Planned Parenthood film Chaffetz knew was distorted and you can blame this "New Wave" of poltical dolts who get away with sedition and all manner of inciting all the most fragile minds in society.
It is a matter of the distortion of the intent of the 2nd Amendment which is clearly defined in Article I, Sec. 8 as a militia called up, armed, disciplined and funded by Congress..not by gun manufacturers dumping millions of guns every year in society and then deliberately misinterpreting the First Amendment so that any politician can lie, distort and twist his right to free speech without any responsibility.
No American is entitled to ANY freedom when it is not accompanied by responsible speech and behavior. It is not responsible to allow Chaffetz to get away with inciting men to murder. That IS what Chaffetz did the minute he produced that bogus lie about Planned Parenthood.
It doesn't help that you have bigots and fundamentalists knowingly inciting these mental defectives. Couple that inciting these unbalanced individuals as Chaffetz did when he dared to show an edited Planned Parenthood film Chaffetz knew was distorted and you can blame this "New Wave" of poltical dolts who get away with sedition and all manner of inciting all the most fragile minds in society.
It is a matter of the distortion of the intent of the 2nd Amendment which is clearly defined in Article I, Sec. 8 as a militia called up, armed, disciplined and funded by Congress..not by gun manufacturers dumping millions of guns every year in society and then deliberately misinterpreting the First Amendment so that any politician can lie, distort and twist his right to free speech without any responsibility.
No American is entitled to ANY freedom when it is not accompanied by responsible speech and behavior. It is not responsible to allow Chaffetz to get away with inciting men to murder. That IS what Chaffetz did the minute he produced that bogus lie about Planned Parenthood.
7
A "doctored" video and a nutcase with a gun. Why are we amazed at this outcome. These deaths and injuries should be placed directly on the doorstep of these so-called "Pro Life" groups who attempt to tell women what to do and ignore Planned Parenthood's other work that makes up the vast majority of what they do.
9
The innocent victims of this lunatic's actions should be profiled in depth. I don't care about any details involving the lunatic's pathetic life.
6
This was a lone crazy person. That is all it
is. Don't make something more of it than it is. The videos were facts. If the
news or videos caused a deranged person to kill people, that is just part of
life. We can't suppress things on the off chance that some nut job will do irrational
things, like killing people based on what he or she sees in the news or in
movies or on You-tube. Multiple millions of people saw the same things or read the same things this nut probably saw, but that didn't drive them to murder or violence against Planned Parenthood.
is. Don't make something more of it than it is. The videos were facts. If the
news or videos caused a deranged person to kill people, that is just part of
life. We can't suppress things on the off chance that some nut job will do irrational
things, like killing people based on what he or she sees in the news or in
movies or on You-tube. Multiple millions of people saw the same things or read the same things this nut probably saw, but that didn't drive them to murder or violence against Planned Parenthood.
4
There is a long history of violence against Planned Parenthood, inflamed by similar hate speech and lies. Since the release of the fraudulent videos (which have been established to include misleading images and accounts that have zero to do with Planned Parenthood or abortion), there has been an increase of attacks on Planned Parenthood by these domestic terrorists.
Since 1977, there have been 11 murders, 17 attempted murders, 42 bombings, and 186 arsons (not sure if that last number is counting the recent 4 arsons). That does not include all the vandalism.
Shouting fire in a crowded theater, lying about "selling baby parts", are deliberately inflaming violence, and the latter is aimed directly at Planned Parenthood.
Since 1977, there have been 11 murders, 17 attempted murders, 42 bombings, and 186 arsons (not sure if that last number is counting the recent 4 arsons). That does not include all the vandalism.
Shouting fire in a crowded theater, lying about "selling baby parts", are deliberately inflaming violence, and the latter is aimed directly at Planned Parenthood.
8
Except that the videos....weren't fact.
Yet another "law abiding citizen" taking his anger and hatred out on innocent health care workers and their patients with an arsenal of weapons. My guess is no background check was performed and another right-winger filled with rage and Religion commits another act of terrorism. We worry about Daesh while our country is filled with angry white Christians who are hunkered down with their beloved guns waiting for their opportunity to strike out at anyone they disagree with. Horrifying.
11
No one in the clinic was killed. A Christian Pastor who also serves as a policeman was killed defending the PP clinic.
We do not know who the other victims were yet.
We do not know who the other victims were yet.
2
Are you defending this lunatic?
Everyone has a right to their opinion, in a democratic society--but no right to enforce it by murder.
Everyone has a right to their opinion, in a democratic society--but no right to enforce it by murder.
1
Let's be clear about one thing -- the group that made the fallacious videos about Planned Parenthood, and the right-wing politicians and activists at all levels who used that video and similar appeals to pander to their base, bear a substantial amount of responsibility for the deaths in Colorado. No, they didn't urge such violence in so many words and no, that doesn't let the shooter off the hook. But inflammatory and fallacious targeting of an organization, in an atmosphere already tense and emotionally inflamed -- not to mention, one in which guns are all too easy to get and use -- is utterly irresponsible and leads to results that, sooner or later, were going to happen somewhere...
14
The lunatic apparently did not have a TV...so how could the videos influence him?
He wouldn't have to have seen the videos to have been influenced by word of mouth in the overheated political climate re Planned Parenthood -- yes, he wanted to be left alone, but he still found out PP was a political target. In fact his isolation would have made it easier to avoid hearing from many directions (notably the Media Matters website, but many others too) how the videos were faked and misleading at many points.
This is not an issue of media power as such, but rather of demagogic political leaders who'll never let the facts get in the way of a good opportunity to pander --
This is not an issue of media power as such, but rather of demagogic political leaders who'll never let the facts get in the way of a good opportunity to pander --
2
Logic: believe it or not, a TV is not the only way to acquire knowledge and access information. Plenty of people I know don't own a television either - but they still watch plenty of TV shows, streaming shows, news, and grumpy cat videos on a screen; it just isn't a tv screen hooked up to cable.
Besides, it seems safe to assume that most people watching those videos saw them online anyway.
Besides, it seems safe to assume that most people watching those videos saw them online anyway.
2
I'm genuinely puzzled by the almost critical need of many commenters to label the man a "Christian terrorist." It seems to me that he is much more a nut job who also really hates abortion. Perhaps you can label him an "anti-abortion terrorist."
If you want to label him a "Christian terrorist," there needs to be a commonly accepted and taught, theological justification for this murder. I am unaware of any equivalent Jihad-like concept in Christianity. I am certainly unaware of any Christian theology that allows the use of terror to achieve goals.
But I could still buy the "Christian terrorism" label on Mr. Dear if there were at least some large conspiracy of Christians, even without theological justification, trying to inflict terror in such a way. But there obviously is not. Mr. Dear, who seemingly can't put together a coherent sentence, was a lone nut job.
It just seems this is much more a discussion on how to keep guns out of the hands of unhinged people.
If you want to label him a "Christian terrorist," there needs to be a commonly accepted and taught, theological justification for this murder. I am unaware of any equivalent Jihad-like concept in Christianity. I am certainly unaware of any Christian theology that allows the use of terror to achieve goals.
But I could still buy the "Christian terrorism" label on Mr. Dear if there were at least some large conspiracy of Christians, even without theological justification, trying to inflict terror in such a way. But there obviously is not. Mr. Dear, who seemingly can't put together a coherent sentence, was a lone nut job.
It just seems this is much more a discussion on how to keep guns out of the hands of unhinged people.
5
I'm unaware of many Christians who smoke weed and troll for sadomasochistic sex either.
1
Ted Cruz was recently endorsed by a radical Christian leader Troy Newman who thinks abortion providers should be executed (going by biblical precepts), and that women who have abortions (for any reason) are murderers. This extremist has close ties to the Center for Medical Progress which made up the hate videos. https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2015/group-a...
Ted Cruz also spoke at an event in company with one of the extreme Christian leaders who thinks homosexuals should be executed.
So, sadly, yes, this is radical Christian terrorism advocating violence against women and others.
Ted Cruz also spoke at an event in company with one of the extreme Christian leaders who thinks homosexuals should be executed.
So, sadly, yes, this is radical Christian terrorism advocating violence against women and others.
5
You should live down here, Scott.
1
"Alienated" are the one who are vulnerable to any extreme ideology, including radical Christianity, and can become unhinged to bring havoc on society.
3
I think Mitchell (Arizona) is right about one of the contributors to these horrible events - millions of guns in this country. Another factor is the glorification of violence. I found it beyond ironic that when I began reading the article about this latest gun tragedy an ad for watches was running right next to it featuring James Bond and violence!
3
If in fact he had said “no more baby parts" in his interview that certainly adds credence to those of us who point out the harm done by the escalation of anti abortion extremist rhetoric and propaganda. This has been going on even before Roe v. Wade but I think the new forms of media in both technology and tactics fuel this. That seems obvious and applies to more than just anti abortion violence.
3
The CSP police say he said lots of incoherent things.. rantings they called it..
To those who think the answer to these tragedies is more guns: What if we were able to get rid of all the guns and everyone just carried a sword? Even women, children and seniors. Or what if there were no weapons at all and we walked around ready to physically fight a fellow citizen at any minute? Everyone. And at all times. Never letting your guard down. I don't have the focus for that. I have a job, a life, etc. Sounds like it would be easier just taking some people's guns away.
4
We clearly know little about Mr. Dear. It's easy to look at the mug shots and form an opinion. Mainstream in the extreme.
2
When will we start focusing on a valid effort towards mental health? The details might be different but the individuals carrying out these atrocious acts all seem to have changed in a split second from simple people to outrageous monsters. If this fellow would have been intervened early on, chances are his victims would still be among the living.
Thank you
Thank you
5
I'm tired of the these politically correct candidates who refuse to acknowledge that we're at war with violent Christian extremists.
Well, at least those extremists seem to be at war with us...
Well, at least those extremists seem to be at war with us...
9
The Republicans running for President who have hyped the lies about Planned Parenthood and the media who simply passed their lies on without challenge have blood on their hands. The Founding Fathers expected more from the press than to simply engage in a he-said-she-said narrative. They expected the press to be the defenders of truth, which is central to democracy. Today's corporate media seems to have abandoned this responsibility.
6
Guns kill, abortion kills. Both are legal. Welcome to our country.
3
And yet guns are, overall, becoming far more accessible and the laws pertaining to their use and ownership far more expansive.....
While access to abortion is rapidly diminishing, to the point of non existence in areas encompassing millions of women of childbearing age.
Both being legal definitely does not translate into them having equal access and availability.
While access to abortion is rapidly diminishing, to the point of non existence in areas encompassing millions of women of childbearing age.
Both being legal definitely does not translate into them having equal access and availability.
And -- Voila! -- we have another paranoid "conservative" wimp!
I have never, in more than six decades on the planet -- living in poor inner city neighborhoods or affluent suburban ones -- needed a weapon "for personal protection." Grow up! The world is just not that threatening a place...
I have never, in more than six decades on the planet -- living in poor inner city neighborhoods or affluent suburban ones -- needed a weapon "for personal protection." Grow up! The world is just not that threatening a place...
7
I've never contracted AIDS either, but I still use condoms.
2
I think this is less about guns and much, much more about the war on women's rights to sexual freedom. This was not shooting up a high school or mall indiscriminately; this was a deliberate act of terrorism targeting a women's healthcare facility that provides, among many other healthcare services, contraception and abortion. This man (it's always a man) is a terrorist; very little difference between him and some ISIS idiot with a suicide vest, except that Dear was more focused in his choice of target. Both want to send women back to the status they endured in the Dark Ages.
8
It's worth mentioning that targetting of the Planned Parenthood clinic had to have been deliberate. It had recently moved from its previous location, but it's not some place someone camping out in Hartsel would 'stumble over' or just happen to notice. It's 65 miles over the mountains to get to Colorado Springs - and you don't get there fully armed and ready to shoot without meaning to.
3
Although President Obama says, this "is not normal," it actually is normal. Thinking it isn't "normal" only makes it more difficult to do anything about guns. This country is out of control and that's what the new normal is.
4
If I were a family member of one of the dead or injured I would sue the makers of the lying video about Planned Parenthood.
16
They have no standing to do so, and anyway it's impossible to prove.
Anyone with a restraining order against him should be examined psychiatrically, relieved of all weapons and followed up at intervals. All people stating to paranoid thoughts on line or otherwise re killing people ditto. It seems that most of our mass killers have a long history before they finally do their mass killings. It seems the wrong people are protected by our laws.
6
No more baby parts? I'd say Ms. Fiorina has blood on her hands.
14
The baby-parts video has been debunked six ways to Sunday as a deceptively edited fraud. However, once such a fraud is loose in the wild - the Internet - there is no getting it back.
A gossipmonger once asked a rabbi how he could make amends for having spread a false rumour. The rabbi told him, take a feather pillow on the roof, scatter the contents to the winds - then go pick up every last feather.
It is time we realized the First Amendment, like the Second, has a paradox built into it: its viability relies on self-restraint, on setting boundaries to it.
There is blood on the hands of the anti-abortion movement. Yet again.
A gossipmonger once asked a rabbi how he could make amends for having spread a false rumour. The rabbi told him, take a feather pillow on the roof, scatter the contents to the winds - then go pick up every last feather.
It is time we realized the First Amendment, like the Second, has a paradox built into it: its viability relies on self-restraint, on setting boundaries to it.
There is blood on the hands of the anti-abortion movement. Yet again.
14
The other night I heard a TV reporter wonder about what motivated this killer. He was motivated and empowered by the reckless & inflammatory rhetoric of politicians so eager to please a small number of voters that they brazenly lie about PP & the services it provides to thousands of mostly poor women. He didn't act in a vacuum even if he did live in a trailer in the middle of no where. He was able to impose his twisted will upon innocent people because he had access to a weapon of mass destruction. Bottom line if he didn't have that gun this wouldn't have happened. And where are those self righteous politicians now?
6
Clearly, this fellow should have been arrested and convicted years ago for crimes that would have legally prevented Mr. Dear from acquiring any firearms. The laws for doing so have long been in place.
But what we need are more gun laws because few are prosecuting cases against habitual criminals.
Wait, we have more gun laws in places like Chicago, but, again, liberal attitudes towards habitual criminals make them all but irrelevant there.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-shootings-violence-...
But what we need are more gun laws because few are prosecuting cases against habitual criminals.
Wait, we have more gun laws in places like Chicago, but, again, liberal attitudes towards habitual criminals make them all but irrelevant there.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-shootings-violence-...
2
Please stop trying to blame everyone you disagree with for political purposes. The murders were committed by one deranged man and it was not part of any organized group whose purpose it was to stop Planned Parenthood from selling aborted baby parts. There are of course many millions of people who do not want Federal Funds, their hard earned tax dollars, going to a group that does what Planned Parenthood seems to have been caught doing on video tape, but those millions are law abiding citizens and would have nothing to do with violence of any kind directed at Planned Parenthood. The millions who wish not to Fund Planned Parenthood are trying to do it through Congress but have failed because the Democrats and the President disagree with their position about the sale of aborted body parts and think it is perfectly OK to engage in that activity. They have not resorted to violence.
8
the gop candidates baked this poison cake. here is the recipe: take one lie from carly fiorina about planned parenthood harvesting organs from live babies, add a declaration from marco rubio saying that god's law trumps civil law, stir in a general hostility to reproductive rights and lots of gun worship, and half bake. it's no wonder the republican candidates have absolutely nothing to say now as we choke on their filthy concoction.
15
How much do you want to bet the TV in his trailer was perpetually dialed into FOX News ?
4
Laura,
It was reported that he did not have a TV so your accusation of Fox News being to blame is moot.
It was reported that he did not have a TV so your accusation of Fox News being to blame is moot.
KMW, he had a computer. You can view Fox on your computer too you know.
2
When I wanted to volunteer at a local children's shelter, I was fingerprinted and had to take a lie detector test. I had to present 3 character witnesses and "jump through many hoops" to be approved. My therapy dog was scrutinized as well and had to pass many tests. Yet, this unbalanced man can walk into a gun store and obtain a weapon of mass destruction to unleash a killing spree on innocents. I can just imagine him passing on his " Morals" to his son. And so it goes. The media telling lies about Planned Parenthood , the hatred of "the other" and the Political divisiveness that marks this country is a civil war in the making. When will we just start turning the guns on each other? The "Enemy at the Gate" will have accomplished it's purpose without a single shot.
19
This is the consequence of decades of right wing rhetoric and lies. This man was motivated by the false notion of planned parenthood selling baby parts, pushed relentlessly by the right, all the way up to and including candidates for president. As long as our society tolerates the promotion of outrageous lies, this will continue.
11
We are an exceptionally country. We love guns, give only lip service to mass killings, worst educational system of western counties, least educated on world affairs. We will kill if you insult our imaginary God. Racism is normal here. Too many don't like a black man in the white house. Republican candidates only play to their interests. Good public policy is good public policy regardless of being a Democrat or Republican. Some people think this is a Christian Country. Some people believe climate change is God's doing. How ignorant we are, but believe we are special because we are Americans. We dis Syrian refugees. Yes, we are exceptional.
3
He most certainly is a fundamentalist Christian terrorist.
Do you think all the Muslim terrorists have warm, happy, family-oriented backgrounds? No. His profile is probably very similar to the single male, isolated angry fundamentalist Muslim terrorist living away from his society.
We ask Muslim's to condemn Muslim acts of terrorists. Therefore, as a Christian, I am condemning this act.
The problem is the same- terrorism due to weapons plus fundamentalism. It's time to stop blaming religion and start blaming fundamentalism - which notably, seems to have the same problems no matter which God the fundamentalist prays to.
Do you think all the Muslim terrorists have warm, happy, family-oriented backgrounds? No. His profile is probably very similar to the single male, isolated angry fundamentalist Muslim terrorist living away from his society.
We ask Muslim's to condemn Muslim acts of terrorists. Therefore, as a Christian, I am condemning this act.
The problem is the same- terrorism due to weapons plus fundamentalism. It's time to stop blaming religion and start blaming fundamentalism - which notably, seems to have the same problems no matter which God the fundamentalist prays to.
7
This is a question I want asked at the next GOP debate: "Candidate, if you or a loved one are diagnosed with cancer or other life-threatening medical condition, would you accept any treatment that was developed through the use of human tissue in the laboratory? Why or why not?"
7
Critics who demand hyperbole to describe radical jihadists should notice the example of restraint set by the news media, particularly the Times, in this case.
Only a couple days later is it becoming clear that the suspect was an anti-abortion terrorist. That's as it should be as the facts are carefully parsed through, lest we succumb to hysteria.
Only a couple days later is it becoming clear that the suspect was an anti-abortion terrorist. That's as it should be as the facts are carefully parsed through, lest we succumb to hysteria.
1
Look to those who use their 1st Amendment rights to inveigh against 'selling baby parts', those who spend their time throwing lit matches into the rubbish pile. And when the pile erupts in flames and cops and holiday shoppers get burned they howl: 'Not my match.' Look to LImbaugh and Huckabee and Fiorina, people who know better yet pander to sad loners in bleak trailers everywhere for their own desperate gain.
6
During the standoff, one of the Fox News reporters stated that Mr. Dear may have been motivated by Planned Parenthood's "selling of baby parts". The "selling of baby parts" was presented by Fox as a fact, not as Mr. Dear's opinion.
As demonstrated on the clandestine videos, a more objective assessment of what Planned Parenthood did was "assess fees related to the costs of collecting and preserving fetal tissue samples donated to medical research".
By repeating the lie that Planned Parenthood was "selling baby parts" Fox News makes themselves complicit in this and other terror attacks against women's health providers.
As demonstrated on the clandestine videos, a more objective assessment of what Planned Parenthood did was "assess fees related to the costs of collecting and preserving fetal tissue samples donated to medical research".
By repeating the lie that Planned Parenthood was "selling baby parts" Fox News makes themselves complicit in this and other terror attacks against women's health providers.
11
Why is this man's face on the front page of the New York Times? How many nutcakes are going to see this as a way to be FRONT PAGE NEWS?
4
It's terrorism. He's a terrorist. Why aren't reporters using the proper term for a man who goes into a clinic where legal medical procedures are being performed, intending to take hostages and kill people? He's a terrorist. Is it because he's white? Is it because he's not Muslim? Is it because prominent Republicans call abortion "murder" and the press is reluctant to take them to task for encouraging terrorism? (There, I said it again - that's not so hard, is it?)
11
Amen.
1
Republican Christian Terrorist. It is what it is.
People like Carly Farinia & other religious fanatics have to share in the guilt of this demented individual.Her obsession for public attention & her pandering for support from the religious element in her party led her to publicly repeat that trumped up lie about Planed Parent Hood.His comment about no more selling of Baby Parts, was a major reason he committed this atrocity.
13
"People like Carly Farinia & other religious fanatics have to share in the guilt of this demented individual."
I fail to see how and why. Because Ms. Fiorina is steadfastly against abortion? Because she, and many other Christians and conservatives, believe that it is morally wrong and indefensible for our tax dollars to fund PP?
I am against abortion - it is the killing of a human life. Does my belief make me responsible? How far does liberalism go when it comes to assessing blame?
Will the NYT dare to print this reply? The heavy edit hand of the NYT to scew all news in favor of its liberal bias shall be seen.
I fail to see how and why. Because Ms. Fiorina is steadfastly against abortion? Because she, and many other Christians and conservatives, believe that it is morally wrong and indefensible for our tax dollars to fund PP?
I am against abortion - it is the killing of a human life. Does my belief make me responsible? How far does liberalism go when it comes to assessing blame?
Will the NYT dare to print this reply? The heavy edit hand of the NYT to scew all news in favor of its liberal bias shall be seen.
Because from her position with a microphone she was hysterical and incendiary all in support of her "political" career. She will say anything to get attention. If it wasn't these videos, it would have been something else.
2
Katmandu
I'm not for abortion, but I am for woman's choice.How fast we forget the self imposed abortions that young girls would perform that in many cases led to their death. Most of these girls came from poor religious homes, where the fear of their Bible thumping Parents was worse than the risk they were taking.This was happening when the rich could go to Europe where abortion was legal.Religious hypocrisy, condones capital punishment, & war, but goes haywire about abortion.
For your information, the only abortion the tax Payer pays for is when the Mother's life is in danger, Rape ,or incest, thank goodness teenage girls do not have to resort to quacks & wire hangers anymore.
.
I'm not for abortion, but I am for woman's choice.How fast we forget the self imposed abortions that young girls would perform that in many cases led to their death. Most of these girls came from poor religious homes, where the fear of their Bible thumping Parents was worse than the risk they were taking.This was happening when the rich could go to Europe where abortion was legal.Religious hypocrisy, condones capital punishment, & war, but goes haywire about abortion.
For your information, the only abortion the tax Payer pays for is when the Mother's life is in danger, Rape ,or incest, thank goodness teenage girls do not have to resort to quacks & wire hangers anymore.
.
2
Carly Fiorina had nothing to do with this killing or sick man. When liberals do not like the message they blame the messenger. Planned Parenthood was selling baby body parts and happened to get caught in the act. They would still be doing this immoral behavior if it had not been brought out into the open. Let's stop blaming Carly Fiorina and the Republicans when a tragedy occurs. It is so unbecoming and I could say a few negative things about Hilary Clinton but I will not stoop to a low level.
3
Only when that message is a bold faced lie KSM.
The Planned Parenthood video that Fiorina got all worked up over for the cameras was a proven fake and she knew it but decided to use it anyway.
KSM, you rightists can feign ignorance with the best of 'em but save it for your fellow rightists because real Americans deal with facts.
The Planned Parenthood video that Fiorina got all worked up over for the cameras was a proven fake and she knew it but decided to use it anyway.
KSM, you rightists can feign ignorance with the best of 'em but save it for your fellow rightists because real Americans deal with facts.
5
Actually, no. It has been well established by facts that Planned Parenthood was not "selling baby parts". This was a lie. Several states have now investigated and discovered no illegal activities. Fetal tissue was donated at the woman's request, and the usual fees (which even the Red Cross charges) were applied. Every medical ethicist has looked at this and found that the fees were within the norms.
And repeating lies is stooping to a low level, especially after this hate speech has incited violence. I seem to remember something about the morality of bearing false witness.
And repeating lies is stooping to a low level, especially after this hate speech has incited violence. I seem to remember something about the morality of bearing false witness.
7
How many concerned family members be denied "mental health care" for armed mass shooters before lawmakers impose a new "cost" for gun purchases from now on? What rights do we have NOT to be shot?
2
Your chances of dying in a mass killing in the U.S. have been estimated at 1 in 333,333. Just to put this risk in perspective, here are some natural disaster comparisons:
Tornado: 1-in-60,000
Lightning Strike 1-in-83,930
Snake, Bee or other Venomous Bite or Sting 1-in-100,000
Earthquake 1-in-131,890
Dog Attack 1-in-147,717
Asteroid Impact 1-in-200,000
Tsunami 1-in-500,000
Mass killings get a lot of play in the media. To me, it seems like there are more than what the statistics show. But that is probably true about any incidents that are media darlings. Of course, we would like to end mass killings. We would also like to stop asteroids from hitting populated areas. When it comes to protecting our security, however, giving up freedom, especially the freedom of the mentally ill and other supposedly suspect populations, I think there is a strong argument that the supposed cure is worse than the disease.
Tornado: 1-in-60,000
Lightning Strike 1-in-83,930
Snake, Bee or other Venomous Bite or Sting 1-in-100,000
Earthquake 1-in-131,890
Dog Attack 1-in-147,717
Asteroid Impact 1-in-200,000
Tsunami 1-in-500,000
Mass killings get a lot of play in the media. To me, it seems like there are more than what the statistics show. But that is probably true about any incidents that are media darlings. Of course, we would like to end mass killings. We would also like to stop asteroids from hitting populated areas. When it comes to protecting our security, however, giving up freedom, especially the freedom of the mentally ill and other supposedly suspect populations, I think there is a strong argument that the supposed cure is worse than the disease.
4
So how many innocent unarmed Americans have to get slaughtered by another gun fetishist before our "christian" nation should be concerned?
4
There are far too many people in this country who have been left behind by our modern culture. Too many people feel that angry people on the radio and Fox News are representing the truth, and no one stops them from telling outright lies. Fox News is successful because it frightens people. Let me tell you, people are frightened. Think how scary the world is if you believe Rush Limbaugh and his ilk. You want stricter gun control? So do I. But tell me how decide that someone who could easily be considered normal in this day and age could be kept away from guns? And isn't the lack of a right to defend himself what people like Mr. Dear are the most afraid of?
3
So, are we going to call this guy a Christian terrorist?
8
I hope not. He's too sick to have a coherent motive, IMHO.
That would be accurate.
1
I agree 100%. Lone wolf shooters cause every bit as much terror as so-called "coherent" terrorists.
1
This is what American, Radical Christian Terrorism looks like. Lets call it what is it: Terrorism.
11
I am not sure I can call the actions of very sick people terrorism.
To the right wing propagandists who spread lies about PP for your own benefit: Dear listened to you, believed your lies, and his actions were inspired by them.
Though I implore you to make no mistake about these facts, to cease your lying, and to admit your complicity in this tragedy, I have no illusions that you have the integrity to do so.
Though I implore you to make no mistake about these facts, to cease your lying, and to admit your complicity in this tragedy, I have no illusions that you have the integrity to do so.
7
We can thank the GOP for christian terrorism as they vilify one of the best organizations ever created in this country.
9
One auxiliary point to be made: With all the mass shootings we have encountered, why publicize the name of the killer? Perhaps his background but not his name--publicity immortalizes the shooter rather than the victims.
2
This is a modest proposal. (With great sadness for the families and friends of all of those involved in the recent Colorado shooting.)
We can all be certain that the House of Representatives will soon take up legislation entitled 'The Vetting of Crazy Terrorist White Men to Eliminate Terrorism in America'. Republican spokespeople will announce the elements of the vetting. All crazy terrorist white men in America must first be cleared by their local police officers through extensive interviews with family and friends and coworkers to ensure that they have not been crazy. Homeland Security will then conduct intensive reviews of web sites and meeting places known to be frequented by crazy terrorist white men. Finally, the FBI Director must personally certify that the crazy terrorist white men are not a national security threat.
Since House Republicans will want this to be a complete review of all crazy terrorist white men, they will announce that for the sake of the safety of the homeland, all crazy terrorist white men will have to be deported immediately along with all of their guns to Syria for the two year vetting process to be completed. Since crazy terrorist white men share the characteristic of attacking and killing innocent people, they will of course be able to understand and fight ISIS terrorists. America will at last have boots on the ground.
We can all be certain that the House of Representatives will soon take up legislation entitled 'The Vetting of Crazy Terrorist White Men to Eliminate Terrorism in America'. Republican spokespeople will announce the elements of the vetting. All crazy terrorist white men in America must first be cleared by their local police officers through extensive interviews with family and friends and coworkers to ensure that they have not been crazy. Homeland Security will then conduct intensive reviews of web sites and meeting places known to be frequented by crazy terrorist white men. Finally, the FBI Director must personally certify that the crazy terrorist white men are not a national security threat.
Since House Republicans will want this to be a complete review of all crazy terrorist white men, they will announce that for the sake of the safety of the homeland, all crazy terrorist white men will have to be deported immediately along with all of their guns to Syria for the two year vetting process to be completed. Since crazy terrorist white men share the characteristic of attacking and killing innocent people, they will of course be able to understand and fight ISIS terrorists. America will at last have boots on the ground.
1
Who cares?
It was his freedumb.
Second Amendment right.
Should we bans knives next?
Guns don't kill people, people kill people.
The shooter was clearly a pro-life person, so he gets to kill others.
Both sides do it. Liberals are just as bad as conservatives. They both equally stoke fear and hate and discontent and want everyone to have easy access to all sorts of guns. Both sides. Both sides. Both sides.
Blah blah blah...
Nothing has changed. Nothing will change.
Maybe I'll take notice when someone like Wayne LaPierre is caught staring down the barrel of some madman's gun.
Until then, I shrug.
Uhmurica, baby. Uhmurica.
It was his freedumb.
Second Amendment right.
Should we bans knives next?
Guns don't kill people, people kill people.
The shooter was clearly a pro-life person, so he gets to kill others.
Both sides do it. Liberals are just as bad as conservatives. They both equally stoke fear and hate and discontent and want everyone to have easy access to all sorts of guns. Both sides. Both sides. Both sides.
Blah blah blah...
Nothing has changed. Nothing will change.
Maybe I'll take notice when someone like Wayne LaPierre is caught staring down the barrel of some madman's gun.
Until then, I shrug.
Uhmurica, baby. Uhmurica.
3
Not likely, Wayne is well protected by armed bodyguards (they are good guys with guns). see http://www.clydefitchreport.com/2013/02/waynes-world/
2
Surely those with the Libertarian mindset can appreciate that women accessing the myriad of healthcare services Planned Parenthood provides also prefer to be -- and deserve to be -- left alone, as in not harassed, threatened, stalked, leafleted, or assaulted by angry mobs and deranged individuals.
One woman's pregnancy, real or imagined, is no one's business.
One woman's pregnancy, real or imagined, is no one's business.
11
Absolutely true. If you want the law changed. go demonstrate at the courts and keep your ugly screaming discontent with the world and yourself out of the faces of women making life choices that are none of your business. We've allowed this hateful spitting of bile in the name of free speech long enough, while those who want to demonstrate at political conventions are kept in chain-link boxes down the street. This case reconfirms the supremacy of the white male—if this person were black or female, they would no longer be alive, or they'd have a transvaginal ultrasound shoved up them as I write. Equality of treatment and income. Want to "fix the family," and end abortion? Pay a wage that can support children and their parents.
2
There are many, many marginal people in this world. They have a hard time just getting through the day. Even normal folks can explode over nothing. What is road rage? Why get upset because someone changed lanes in front of you? Yet, doing so throws many into a violent rage.
The gun people keep saying that sensible, law abiding citizens should be able to carry guns everywhere and own whatever gun they want. We are not sensible. None of us. All are prone to fits of rage.
Now enter the deluge of hate speech and lies perpetrated by the the radical right. This is enough stimulation to push marginal people over the edge. They crack up and act out their rage with gun violence.
We don't let people shout "fire" in a theater for a reason. That same reason should apply to political hate speech. Telling lies the public square for no other reason than to incite causes these types of reactions.
Add guns to the mix and the result are these mass shootings. People are just not responsible enough to possess such fire power. That's the problem with these AK type weapons. I no problem with hunting and harvesting wild game. Hunters usually can only get one shot off at one time. Very rarely two. But the type of weapon Dear had allowed him to hold off dozens of heavily armed cops for 5 hours. We don't need thee weapons and we don't need the hate speech and the lies that causes people to use them. They rob us of our freedom.
The gun people keep saying that sensible, law abiding citizens should be able to carry guns everywhere and own whatever gun they want. We are not sensible. None of us. All are prone to fits of rage.
Now enter the deluge of hate speech and lies perpetrated by the the radical right. This is enough stimulation to push marginal people over the edge. They crack up and act out their rage with gun violence.
We don't let people shout "fire" in a theater for a reason. That same reason should apply to political hate speech. Telling lies the public square for no other reason than to incite causes these types of reactions.
Add guns to the mix and the result are these mass shootings. People are just not responsible enough to possess such fire power. That's the problem with these AK type weapons. I no problem with hunting and harvesting wild game. Hunters usually can only get one shot off at one time. Very rarely two. But the type of weapon Dear had allowed him to hold off dozens of heavily armed cops for 5 hours. We don't need thee weapons and we don't need the hate speech and the lies that causes people to use them. They rob us of our freedom.
4
It's easy to dismiss this shooter, once again, as one more mentally ill individual.
But we the American people are equally sick, failing to accept that we, too, are suffering, and can only begin the path to wellness when we acknowledge our illness and take responsibility for our own recovery.
The first step is to quit manufacturing and selling assault weapons and other weapons of mass destruction designed for only one thing: killing large numbers of our fellow Americans.
The next step is to elect only those representatives who pledge to stand up to the NRA and help us heal.
But we the American people are equally sick, failing to accept that we, too, are suffering, and can only begin the path to wellness when we acknowledge our illness and take responsibility for our own recovery.
The first step is to quit manufacturing and selling assault weapons and other weapons of mass destruction designed for only one thing: killing large numbers of our fellow Americans.
The next step is to elect only those representatives who pledge to stand up to the NRA and help us heal.
2
Some on the right go a bit mad over the right to abortion. On the left we go a bit mad over guns. Both are legal. Both are regulated to some extent. That's what we get in a pluralistic, democratic society as expressed in our society. I'm on the side that wishes there were fewer guns out there. But I no longer live in a society where that is true, or going to be true. The solution to these shootings will not be no guns or even fewer guns. That's not going to happen. We need to look for ways to reduce the lost of life in other ways. Police forces have adapted by now going in to engage right away (at risk to their own lives). Are there other adaptations we can make -- some regulation, more attention to the mental health issue, etc.?
1
Since the early 70's a woman's right to choose has been vilified and dragged out during every election cycle by the conservative/evangelical political alliance. I understand and respect people's passion about this issue--it is the single most riveting political point for the Right Wing and one that defies the simple black and white analysis and hyperbolic rhetoric that mediocre politicians embrace during the election cycle. It does seem likely that this miserable, confused, and lonely man (Robert Dear) was motivated by the intensity and outright lies of cynical political operatives trying to rile up the "base". I doubt that any of those responsible (the group that created the false videos about PP, or hacks like Carly Fiorina) will claim responsibility. But let's just call this what it is--terrorism. As we shrink back in horror after Paris and condemn refugees to a miserable wandering existence or to death, let's all be honest about what terrorism really is and stop lying to ourselves.
5
The common denominator between these mostly white males declaring to be pro 'life' is that they are as well pro gun due to their misinterpretation of the 2nd Amendment and pro-death penalty as well.
They pick and chose from both the bible and the Constitution whatever fits into their pre-Enlightenment world view.
It is high time to call people like Mr. Dear by their correct name: Christian Terrorists trying to impose their warped beliefs on the rest of the population through sheer terror.
These religious terrorists are actually egged on by our own representatives in Congress who are holding and televising 'hearings' about Planned Parenthood, and even want to shut government down over the minescule funding by the government, none of which is used for abortions.
The mainly white male members of that committee conveniently never talk or publish how many lives of women who couldn't afford to pay for a visit to a doctor's office have been saved in the almost 100 years of the existence of PP through early screening for numerous potential health dangers.
Only in America ....... but I repeat myself.
They pick and chose from both the bible and the Constitution whatever fits into their pre-Enlightenment world view.
It is high time to call people like Mr. Dear by their correct name: Christian Terrorists trying to impose their warped beliefs on the rest of the population through sheer terror.
These religious terrorists are actually egged on by our own representatives in Congress who are holding and televising 'hearings' about Planned Parenthood, and even want to shut government down over the minescule funding by the government, none of which is used for abortions.
The mainly white male members of that committee conveniently never talk or publish how many lives of women who couldn't afford to pay for a visit to a doctor's office have been saved in the almost 100 years of the existence of PP through early screening for numerous potential health dangers.
Only in America ....... but I repeat myself.
4
I think there is a parallel in the behavior of a perpetrator
like Dear with that of a jihadist recruit. Having had some
related experience myself, I have a hunch that whatever turned
him from a casual Christian into a believer needing to kill
for a fundamentalist tenet is functionally equivalent to the
mental events that turn young semi-observant Muslim men into
jihadist militants. In our society the mental crisis sometimes
leads to sporadic run-amok events. In the Middle East,
there are social forces that channel and harvest such a crisis
for political ends.
This incident shows how difficult it will be to prevent its
kind simply through firearms regulation. Dear emerged from
the middle of the sportsman/hunter culture without having
been much more than a grouchy neighbor beforehand.
like Dear with that of a jihadist recruit. Having had some
related experience myself, I have a hunch that whatever turned
him from a casual Christian into a believer needing to kill
for a fundamentalist tenet is functionally equivalent to the
mental events that turn young semi-observant Muslim men into
jihadist militants. In our society the mental crisis sometimes
leads to sporadic run-amok events. In the Middle East,
there are social forces that channel and harvest such a crisis
for political ends.
This incident shows how difficult it will be to prevent its
kind simply through firearms regulation. Dear emerged from
the middle of the sportsman/hunter culture without having
been much more than a grouchy neighbor beforehand.
1
This tragedy will be, once again, used by people who want to keep advancing their ideological agenda. For gun control, or against gun control, for abortion, or against abortion, for mental health treatment, or against government's interference. Everyone will find something in this story to back their narrative their hardened position. A fair minded person, looking at the facts would have to conclude that a deranged man chose the abortion issue to exploit as the focus of his dysfunction. It could have been any other highly charged subject of national disagreement. Assigning this under the category of "GOP Wackos" is pure ideology. Having said that, this case demonstrates that while some lunatics are always capable of going off, they shouldn't be allowed to do so with an AK-47 in hand.
1
Sure, counter-factual media campaigns, blatant propaganda and outright lies saturating the public sphere for years has no influence on these matters.
3
Assuming he was motivated by the anti-Planned Parenthood propaganda videos recently released then by extension the Republican candidates who have promoted the lies, most vehemently Carly Fiorina, are culpable. Their rhetoric essentially reduces to inciting violence although they do not state that explicitly. If they had distanced themselves from the videos but continued to discuss their philosophical disagreements without promoting the lies that would exhibit leadership, not to mention a thought process.
3
Call me another angry white man, but I always feel infuriated when I read or hear someone talk about the shooter's motives after another gun violence incident.
I don't give a hoot about someone's motives! There is no rational reason why someone would go out and gun down innocent victims because he felt angry. As past experience and other commenters have argued, there is simply no way to predict such violent behavior; talking about mental health care to prevent gun violence is a waste of time and as specious an argument as "...we need more good guys with guns to stop bad guys."
As long as this country is awash with guns and the twisted interpretation of the Second Amendment by the Republican Supreme Court stands, there will continue to be many more gun shootings and many thousands of innocent American men, women, and children will be needlessly murdered.
We need to change our gun culture through education, repeal the Second Amendment, and remove the plethora of guns from our sick society.
W need action and not hand-wringing or prayer for the dead victims. We need to prevent future victims from being killed!
****A Connecticut physician
I don't give a hoot about someone's motives! There is no rational reason why someone would go out and gun down innocent victims because he felt angry. As past experience and other commenters have argued, there is simply no way to predict such violent behavior; talking about mental health care to prevent gun violence is a waste of time and as specious an argument as "...we need more good guys with guns to stop bad guys."
As long as this country is awash with guns and the twisted interpretation of the Second Amendment by the Republican Supreme Court stands, there will continue to be many more gun shootings and many thousands of innocent American men, women, and children will be needlessly murdered.
We need to change our gun culture through education, repeal the Second Amendment, and remove the plethora of guns from our sick society.
W need action and not hand-wringing or prayer for the dead victims. We need to prevent future victims from being killed!
****A Connecticut physician
9
Simply speaking, the common denominator in these kinds of mass casualty tragedies is psychopathology that found a cause and a weapon and acted out. Trying to make rational sense (or establish a rational motive) out of a deranged irrational mind is a waste of time. It would be more productive, I believe, (regarding finally establishing some semblance of prevention if that's even possible in this day and time when anyone can get a gun if not legally than illegally plus find a cause) would be understanding the common factors that lead to similar psychopathology, what exaggerates it, and why isn't it being treated before it's acted out.
2
Deadly incidents of this nature, the result of lack of control and regulation of the purchase, owning, and use of firearms seems to be just "a cost of doing business" in the United States. Those who are willing to accept these monthly tolls of dead citizens, murdered or otherwise killed or maimed by firearms, have the upper hand in American life.
Starting with the manufacturers of guns, as well as organizations like the NRA and the GOA, and on down to unaffiliated individuals who believe in the unfettered access to guns, they and only they must bear a share of the blame for all this needless carnage.
That said, with more than 300 million guns in circulation, it is hard to imagine any practical action which would lessen these now-predictable mass shootings of totally innocent people.
The one fact that no one, particularly the Supreme Court, wants to admit to in 2nd Amendment matters is that rights do not preclude regulation. All rights carry some kind of regulation or restriction.
That is where the argument should begin.
Starting with the manufacturers of guns, as well as organizations like the NRA and the GOA, and on down to unaffiliated individuals who believe in the unfettered access to guns, they and only they must bear a share of the blame for all this needless carnage.
That said, with more than 300 million guns in circulation, it is hard to imagine any practical action which would lessen these now-predictable mass shootings of totally innocent people.
The one fact that no one, particularly the Supreme Court, wants to admit to in 2nd Amendment matters is that rights do not preclude regulation. All rights carry some kind of regulation or restriction.
That is where the argument should begin.
How protective the national press always is of Republican sensibilities.
This awful man--a white, conservative, anti-choice Baptist-- was a) carrying one of the lethal weapons Republicans have been gleefully determined to protect from any sort of sane regulation ever since Sandy Hook and b) attacking the Republican Party's favorite summer target, a Planned Parenthood clinic.
For that matter, c) he ranted to a cop about those infamous "baby parts" made infamous by the GOP-coordinated video that was Topic A on the Republican campaign trail and in Republican fundraisers, until Paris came along to divert them to the Muslim Menace, a broader and more lucrative target than America's women.
Yet with all this, the national press primly insists that Robert Dear's motives were "unclear," and tut tuts about those who would "politicize" this sad random inexplicable event, and declares that we mustn't point any of our pointing fingers at Republicans, or anti-choice groups, or at Baptist churches, or goodness knows what, because that would be jumping to conclusions.
The national press also doesn't seem much inclined to dwell on the curious fact that an armed cop-killer can be taken alive mid-massacre, just so long as he's white.
All right then. No 'liberal media bias' need apply. "Both sides do it," right, national press? If Republican propaganda generates an atrocity, then surely Democrats must be equally to blame, so let's be terribly careful not to take sides here.
Lucky GOP.
This awful man--a white, conservative, anti-choice Baptist-- was a) carrying one of the lethal weapons Republicans have been gleefully determined to protect from any sort of sane regulation ever since Sandy Hook and b) attacking the Republican Party's favorite summer target, a Planned Parenthood clinic.
For that matter, c) he ranted to a cop about those infamous "baby parts" made infamous by the GOP-coordinated video that was Topic A on the Republican campaign trail and in Republican fundraisers, until Paris came along to divert them to the Muslim Menace, a broader and more lucrative target than America's women.
Yet with all this, the national press primly insists that Robert Dear's motives were "unclear," and tut tuts about those who would "politicize" this sad random inexplicable event, and declares that we mustn't point any of our pointing fingers at Republicans, or anti-choice groups, or at Baptist churches, or goodness knows what, because that would be jumping to conclusions.
The national press also doesn't seem much inclined to dwell on the curious fact that an armed cop-killer can be taken alive mid-massacre, just so long as he's white.
All right then. No 'liberal media bias' need apply. "Both sides do it," right, national press? If Republican propaganda generates an atrocity, then surely Democrats must be equally to blame, so let's be terribly careful not to take sides here.
Lucky GOP.
2
It is important to take Dear's words seriously and not as an indicator of mental illness. The fact that we may not understand and condone his actions does not mean that he has a mental illness. It is highly possible that Dear is extremely invested in his religious identity and that he sees himself as a martyr for the cause. This would also explain the statement - he wants to explain his actions and why he understands them as being correct. I recommend the documentary Soldiers in the Army of God. If you adopt the black and white view of the world - we are holy and others are evil - it is possible to understand how Dear can justify his actions.
His pattern of behavior really isn't all that different from other religious terrorists. If we look at the attackers in Paris - it seems that they were also rather small time losers with petty lawbreaking behind them - who had been sort of religious, but not overly so prior to radicalization.
The use of the "lone wolf" is a tactic that has also been standard in terrorist violence against clinics and on the far Right in general.
The use of the mental illness label is an attempt to explain away behavior that we don't like or understand from a member of the hegemonic group. It is important to remember that persons with severe persistent illness are less likely to be violent than members of the general population & more likely to be victims of violence.
His pattern of behavior really isn't all that different from other religious terrorists. If we look at the attackers in Paris - it seems that they were also rather small time losers with petty lawbreaking behind them - who had been sort of religious, but not overly so prior to radicalization.
The use of the "lone wolf" is a tactic that has also been standard in terrorist violence against clinics and on the far Right in general.
The use of the mental illness label is an attempt to explain away behavior that we don't like or understand from a member of the hegemonic group. It is important to remember that persons with severe persistent illness are less likely to be violent than members of the general population & more likely to be victims of violence.
2
Here in Central NY, we recently had an incident where the members of a church that purports to be Christian beat a young man to death and seriously injured his brother. The father and sister of the victims participated in the beatings.
Were these people mentally ill or did something else contribute to this terrible crime? There seems to have been some cultist mental manipulations that created a culture where this behavior seemed somehow OK. How do we as a society respond to situations like that?
It's facile to generalize that apparently senseless crimes are the result of mental illness, just as it's facile to generalize that atrocities committed by members of a religious group are the result of that religion.
There are a lot of forces attempting to manipulate the vulnerable. We can't prevent that, but at the very least, our politicians should stop trying to inflame and enrage. Fear may seem a useful tool to garner political support, but in the long run, it can destroy us.
Were these people mentally ill or did something else contribute to this terrible crime? There seems to have been some cultist mental manipulations that created a culture where this behavior seemed somehow OK. How do we as a society respond to situations like that?
It's facile to generalize that apparently senseless crimes are the result of mental illness, just as it's facile to generalize that atrocities committed by members of a religious group are the result of that religion.
There are a lot of forces attempting to manipulate the vulnerable. We can't prevent that, but at the very least, our politicians should stop trying to inflame and enrage. Fear may seem a useful tool to garner political support, but in the long run, it can destroy us.
1
In scanning the comments it seems most people, regardless of how they feel about guns and mental illness, are viewing through a shorter-term, narrower lens than what might be needed. This would not likely be a case that a law, by itself, could have prevented. Many are not. In fact, I would venture to say that most of the mass murderers we have "seen" in the media were unlikely to have been flagged.
The issue of gun proliferation and misuse, abuse, accidental use, etc. is one that we, as a society, have condoned for the last two generations, largely due to ever-increasing lax laws and lack of political will to confront those people, including the Supreme Court that got it wrong, who believe that gun rights trump right to life/happiness.
One solution is actually not that hard although it will take a long time: send the opposite message. "We do not condone gun use and violence and risky behavior." How? Constant public service announcements, blasted on billboards, buses, print ads, TV and viral ads, radio ads - wherever. Then pass law after law that mandates safer use, less use, less access. etc. It does not matter as the NRA would want you to believe whether or not a single law will "work." It is the message sent over time that will work. It is the cumulative effect that will work, just as it has been the cumulative effect that got us here in the first place.
The issue of gun proliferation and misuse, abuse, accidental use, etc. is one that we, as a society, have condoned for the last two generations, largely due to ever-increasing lax laws and lack of political will to confront those people, including the Supreme Court that got it wrong, who believe that gun rights trump right to life/happiness.
One solution is actually not that hard although it will take a long time: send the opposite message. "We do not condone gun use and violence and risky behavior." How? Constant public service announcements, blasted on billboards, buses, print ads, TV and viral ads, radio ads - wherever. Then pass law after law that mandates safer use, less use, less access. etc. It does not matter as the NRA would want you to believe whether or not a single law will "work." It is the message sent over time that will work. It is the cumulative effect that will work, just as it has been the cumulative effect that got us here in the first place.
1
Unfettered access to guns of virtually any type is one issue in this matter. But the larger concern is that a well financed political group is distributing highly edited, false propaganda that Planned Parenthood is harvesting baby parts for sale. Worse, GOP candidates for President, Governors and Members of Congress are acting as though the propaganda is true and creating an environment in which unbalanced people are encouraged to act as vigilantes against a perceived crime.
The result is that zealots with guns are attacking medical facilities and medical personnel who are providing vital services to women who are otherwise unable to get the health care they need.
While controlling guns is controversial and difficult, what should not be controversial nor difficult is to protect Planned Parenthood, its personnel and patients from attacks such as this. The number of clinics is limited. Given the refusal of most state governments to protect their citizens, President Obama should provide federal protection with federal law enforcement.
The result is that zealots with guns are attacking medical facilities and medical personnel who are providing vital services to women who are otherwise unable to get the health care they need.
While controlling guns is controversial and difficult, what should not be controversial nor difficult is to protect Planned Parenthood, its personnel and patients from attacks such as this. The number of clinics is limited. Given the refusal of most state governments to protect their citizens, President Obama should provide federal protection with federal law enforcement.
1
This issue is a complicated one at several levels.
1. How do we as a society explain Mr. Dear? Obviously a deeply troubled man. The question is not what led him to commit this heinous act, but what caused his estrangement from society in the first place?
2. Some may blame the videos of Planned Parenthood executives and doctors talking about the baby body parts trade over wine and lavish dinners. This video anger me and others, but we don't kill people over it.
3. That leads to the abortion culture. How doe we as a "moral" society explain the abortion culture? What does the arbitrary termination of a human life because it may be inconvenient say about our society?
4. Of course the availability of guns contributed to this event, but that is not what caused the event. Guns only shaped the outcome in terms of leading to the death of three people and the injury of several others.
This a complicated event and until the nation comes to terms with the marginalization of people who don't fit in the so-called norm, they will continue to happen. These events will continue as long as our society champions the abortion culture, which terminates the life of inconvenient people, much like the marginalization of those who don't fit in. These events will continue as long as our society tolerates the use of guns to settle the score. These events will continue as long as society excepts the consequence of death, something which the abortion and gun cultures intrinsically share.
1. How do we as a society explain Mr. Dear? Obviously a deeply troubled man. The question is not what led him to commit this heinous act, but what caused his estrangement from society in the first place?
2. Some may blame the videos of Planned Parenthood executives and doctors talking about the baby body parts trade over wine and lavish dinners. This video anger me and others, but we don't kill people over it.
3. That leads to the abortion culture. How doe we as a "moral" society explain the abortion culture? What does the arbitrary termination of a human life because it may be inconvenient say about our society?
4. Of course the availability of guns contributed to this event, but that is not what caused the event. Guns only shaped the outcome in terms of leading to the death of three people and the injury of several others.
This a complicated event and until the nation comes to terms with the marginalization of people who don't fit in the so-called norm, they will continue to happen. These events will continue as long as our society champions the abortion culture, which terminates the life of inconvenient people, much like the marginalization of those who don't fit in. These events will continue as long as our society tolerates the use of guns to settle the score. These events will continue as long as society excepts the consequence of death, something which the abortion and gun cultures intrinsically share.
2
Of course the gun caused this tragedy.
Without the gun this loser wouldn't have the guts to confront another man or group of men. But out a gun into the hands of this coward and suddenly he is brave.
Guns turn cowards into cowards with artificial assaul rifle bravery.
Of course the gun caused this...guns make cowards feel like men.
Without the gun this loser wouldn't have the guts to confront another man or group of men. But out a gun into the hands of this coward and suddenly he is brave.
Guns turn cowards into cowards with artificial assaul rifle bravery.
Of course the gun caused this...guns make cowards feel like men.
4
@Bob: The fact that you called Mr. Dear a "loser" means that you belong to that segment of society that marginalizes people with mental problems. I'm sorry that you feel that way, and I hope that one day you will change. However, based on my own experience, something significant, even life changing, will have to happen to you to change.
1
Semantics is everything. We have to not let those who would turn this into a hateful dialogue set the tone with their words. "Pro-Abortion?" No one is for abortions. No one says, "Let's get more women pregnant so we can have more abortions." That's ludicrous. It comes down to choice and control. The two sides are Pro-Choice and Anti-Choice .... some want the option to choose to have control over their bodies and choose safe abortions when they are needed. Others want to deny those choices. It's that simple...except that in the latter case one more option is available...as in the past, before Roe v Wade, some may choose to have an unsafe abortion.
2
Crime was committed when those fake videos were released. This is one of the effects of that crime.That crime sowed the seeds for many such acts and has made our society permanently vulnerable. Why are we not arresting the original criminal?
2
OK let me simplify:
The "T" word is "terrorism."
The "D" phrase is "Double standards."
Now that the motivation is becoming clear, will mainstream media start using the T world or will we be stuck with D.
It is much harder for our media to decide to call non-Muslims who conduct mass killing "terrorists." They have "psychological difficulties."
There are many mass killings in the USA and yes there needs to be more regulation of type of gun people get a hold of. That wont solve everything though.
Though far in the minority, Muslims who kill at a workplace --like Major Hasan, who clearly has psychological difficulties --are usually labeled terrorist and their real or perceived links to websites are played up ion the media. In this case, let the media do its job and see what political and online source of intolerance fueled this man's violence.
The "T" word is "terrorism."
The "D" phrase is "Double standards."
Now that the motivation is becoming clear, will mainstream media start using the T world or will we be stuck with D.
It is much harder for our media to decide to call non-Muslims who conduct mass killing "terrorists." They have "psychological difficulties."
There are many mass killings in the USA and yes there needs to be more regulation of type of gun people get a hold of. That wont solve everything though.
Though far in the minority, Muslims who kill at a workplace --like Major Hasan, who clearly has psychological difficulties --are usually labeled terrorist and their real or perceived links to websites are played up ion the media. In this case, let the media do its job and see what political and online source of intolerance fueled this man's violence.
1
Thank you, Carli and Donald and all the Republican right hate mongers for lying about and demonizing Planned Parenthood, purely for political gain. Your kind of rhetoric is an inspiration to wing nuts and whackos everywhere, like Mr. Dear, who will act out your hatred and vitriol with the weapons you want to ensure they have access to. People will die because of your polemical lies and hate-speech: Mothers, police officers, children. Keep preaching hate and lying to get votes. It's what you do.
3
This will never stop, too much money to be made by those supporting it...its that simple...fear and loathing pays well!
1
When Yitzhak Rabin was murdered, some Israelis called for an end to the venomous rhetoric that was common in Israeli public life at that time, and I suppose still is. They felt that his murder occurred at least partly because of the polarizing speech very common in Israeli public discourse.
Well, here's an American wingnut in jail (and likely to be executed) after killing three people, assuming no one else that he shot dies. If "baby parts" have anything to do with this miserable tragedy, the folks who concocted those faked videos now have blood on their hands. I hope they're proud of what they've done- inciting murder. What a sterling accomplishment.
Well, here's an American wingnut in jail (and likely to be executed) after killing three people, assuming no one else that he shot dies. If "baby parts" have anything to do with this miserable tragedy, the folks who concocted those faked videos now have blood on their hands. I hope they're proud of what they've done- inciting murder. What a sterling accomplishment.
9
So Deer isn't a Syrian refugee, not even a Muslim. That's quite a relief but it seems to leave everyone wondering what his motives could possibly be. Being a Christian he's obviously not a terrorist. He's just a troubled man trying to do what congress voting to shut down Planned Parenthood can't seem to do.
Come on people!!! When a guy with a gun on a rampage is frightening, that's terrorism!!! Let's see Homeland Security go after this guy with all the post 9/11 anti terrorist laws. It's time to stop giving anti abortionists a free ride.
Come on people!!! When a guy with a gun on a rampage is frightening, that's terrorism!!! Let's see Homeland Security go after this guy with all the post 9/11 anti terrorist laws. It's time to stop giving anti abortionists a free ride.
11
..." but his motive remained unclear"... seriously this was the lead in to this article after describing the perp talking about baby parts. Seems pretty clear to me. oh that and the anti-obama rant.
10
In response to this latest attack on PP the President said, as reported by the Times,:
“We can’t let it become normal,” Mr. Obama said in a statement. “If we truly care about this — if we’re going to offer up our thoughts and prayers again, for God knows how many times, with a truly clean conscience — then we have to do something about the easy accessibility of weapons of war on our streets to people who have no business wielding them. Period. Enough is enough.”
I am hopeful President Obama and Loretta Lynch will announce next week a plan to address this issue in a meaningful way, like a dedicated security presence at all PP locations for the duration.
“We can’t let it become normal,” Mr. Obama said in a statement. “If we truly care about this — if we’re going to offer up our thoughts and prayers again, for God knows how many times, with a truly clean conscience — then we have to do something about the easy accessibility of weapons of war on our streets to people who have no business wielding them. Period. Enough is enough.”
I am hopeful President Obama and Loretta Lynch will announce next week a plan to address this issue in a meaningful way, like a dedicated security presence at all PP locations for the duration.
5
Yes, I'm sure the Republican Congress will be delighted and happily willing to find a dedicated security presence at all PP locations, posthaste.
(Obviously that's sarcasm, even though I personally would be very supportive of more robust security at all abortion-providing PP locations, or any PP facility that's been targeted by protestors, regardless of abortion being performed there or not. However, PP and PP affiliates are just one organization that offers full reproductive services. There are many, many non-PP facilities across America....though there are fewer than there used to be, thanks to absurd and dangerous "TRAP" laws and the like. And getting ANY family planning funding is already a gigantic struggle....the GOP mantra, right after "Defund Obamacare," is "Defund Planned Parenthood!" Hell will freeze over, thaw, then freeze all over again before this Congress gets on board. Instead, they'll conflate all rep. service clinics with PP and turn it around to
claim that PP should've been protecting themselves better, what with all the funding and donations they get - totally overlooking all of those non-PP clinics.)
(Obviously that's sarcasm, even though I personally would be very supportive of more robust security at all abortion-providing PP locations, or any PP facility that's been targeted by protestors, regardless of abortion being performed there or not. However, PP and PP affiliates are just one organization that offers full reproductive services. There are many, many non-PP facilities across America....though there are fewer than there used to be, thanks to absurd and dangerous "TRAP" laws and the like. And getting ANY family planning funding is already a gigantic struggle....the GOP mantra, right after "Defund Obamacare," is "Defund Planned Parenthood!" Hell will freeze over, thaw, then freeze all over again before this Congress gets on board. Instead, they'll conflate all rep. service clinics with PP and turn it around to
claim that PP should've been protecting themselves better, what with all the funding and donations they get - totally overlooking all of those non-PP clinics.)
Isn't this guy a terrorist? Where is the call for the registry of folks like him and the call for a crack down on immigration from his home state to another state; come you GOP folks you are losing focus.
5
Ah, America. The right to be crazy, well armed, and harass your neighbors. Gotta love it !
10
"No more baby parts" says the suspect. DO YOU HEAR THAT, Carly Fiorina? Spew your lies and reap the results. This is not like saying someone who watches violent films will resort to violence. We're talking about political leaders making claims on a national platform, and it's beyond irresponsible. This man is a terrorist and I hope he's prosecuted as one. Meanwhile the silence from the GOP candidates has been deafening, and it's an absolute disgrace.
21
The other leading GOP presidential candidates used the same term. They are all guilty of hate speech and inciting violence against women.
3
Really, he did it because he had guns and could. Why cover him and his crime, or dignify it by wondering "why?" Guns are very available and anyone can feel justified for using them for any reason...."stand your ground" a malicious video by anti abortionists....etc....or just got drunk and pissed and decided to kill someone...
5
As these articles fade off into yesterday's news let me ask the following questions:
1) Why do the NYT articles refer to this health care facility as an abortion clinic? It is a health center performing a variety of services, one of which is legal, safe abortions.
2) Why is the NYT fueling the anti-choice, anti-reproductive rights, anti-woman agenda with sensationalist headlines like "No More Baby Parts," a purported quote from an alleged murder/terrorist by an anonymous source? Especially when, by the way, every investigation has shown that the fetal tissue activity of Planned Parenthood was legal, ethical and in the interest of science?
3) Would we tolerate articles in the NYT giving credence to any other terrorist agenda?
1) Why do the NYT articles refer to this health care facility as an abortion clinic? It is a health center performing a variety of services, one of which is legal, safe abortions.
2) Why is the NYT fueling the anti-choice, anti-reproductive rights, anti-woman agenda with sensationalist headlines like "No More Baby Parts," a purported quote from an alleged murder/terrorist by an anonymous source? Especially when, by the way, every investigation has shown that the fetal tissue activity of Planned Parenthood was legal, ethical and in the interest of science?
3) Would we tolerate articles in the NYT giving credence to any other terrorist agenda?
16
I think you're missing the point-
The Times is using the 'No More Body Parts' headline to refer to Carly Fiorina and her hate-filled, emotional outburst during the Republican debate. The Times' not so subtle implication is that Fiorina may well have been the inspiration for the attack on Planned Parenthood (which makes some sense.)
Also, I don't think us pro-choice folks should shy away from the word, "abortion." We don't need to apologize for its legitimacy and we should all strive to avoid political correctness in the form of euphemism and doublespeak.
The Times is using the 'No More Body Parts' headline to refer to Carly Fiorina and her hate-filled, emotional outburst during the Republican debate. The Times' not so subtle implication is that Fiorina may well have been the inspiration for the attack on Planned Parenthood (which makes some sense.)
Also, I don't think us pro-choice folks should shy away from the word, "abortion." We don't need to apologize for its legitimacy and we should all strive to avoid political correctness in the form of euphemism and doublespeak.
2
The Planned Parenthood facilities perform abortions and the pro abortion folks make light of this. This is where PP makes most of their money. It is sad they put money over innocent human beings. They have no conscience.
I don't see any politically viable answer to the continuing daily gun violence.
By now I'll bet there are more guns than people in the USA. That's because although people all eventually die, few guns die. When my father in law got into his 80s he wanted me to have his 9 guns. Although I politely refused, he sneaked a 30-06 into my house anyway. It sits in my basement having never been fired by me. I have no idea what happened to the other 8.
In New Zealand and in Japan, you need to demonstrate responsibility and competence in order to own a weapon. Unfortunately, here in thee good old USA, all yo need to demonstrate is the ability to fog a mirror.
God bless America. Indeed.
By now I'll bet there are more guns than people in the USA. That's because although people all eventually die, few guns die. When my father in law got into his 80s he wanted me to have his 9 guns. Although I politely refused, he sneaked a 30-06 into my house anyway. It sits in my basement having never been fired by me. I have no idea what happened to the other 8.
In New Zealand and in Japan, you need to demonstrate responsibility and competence in order to own a weapon. Unfortunately, here in thee good old USA, all yo need to demonstrate is the ability to fog a mirror.
God bless America. Indeed.
2
In medical school we were taught that there are two time inwhen a male paranoid has the highest likelihood of carrying out a mass shooting. The first one I saw in practice was a 62 year old who randomly killed several people. He had no ideological motivation. That was 40 years ago.
Today unfortunates like Mr. Dear have assault-style weapon and choose their victims from groups they are taught to hate, who make him a hero to kill. The inflammatory rhetoric and easy access to rapid firing guns must cease and \sensible gun laws must be put into place.
Today unfortunates like Mr. Dear have assault-style weapon and choose their victims from groups they are taught to hate, who make him a hero to kill. The inflammatory rhetoric and easy access to rapid firing guns must cease and \sensible gun laws must be put into place.
6
The article and readers' comments make me wonder .... If these "mental cases" didn't have easy access to guns, would they have not committed the crimes?
4
If there is any hollow benefit to be mined from this latest of gun related tragedies, it is that it has at least momentarily silenced these disgraceful presidential candidates.
7
In both parties
This is a clear example of right wing talks, and Republican presidential candidate Carly Fiorina's false graphic descriptions of services rendered by Planned Parenthood, weaponizing mentally sick people who and terrorists are free to buy guns in America. We have killings and terrorism almost every week in our soil, but we are so concerned about the Paris killings by ISIS. The media is not doing a good job in driving this home.
15
Surely there are more suspects to be found in this case. I suspect that if you look closely, you'll find the fingerprints of the NRA, poor healthcare, the media, religion, and a poor understanding about the facts of life all over it.
6
Thank you Carly Fiorina for exercerbating the environment that would allow these kinds of toxic attitudes to flourish.
Of course just as in the case of Sarah Palin the shooter deserves the entire responsibility for this event. No way do I blame Carly Fiorina just as I assign no blame to Sarah Palin for the actions that took place in Arizona.
Of course just as in the case of Sarah Palin the shooter deserves the entire responsibility for this event. No way do I blame Carly Fiorina just as I assign no blame to Sarah Palin for the actions that took place in Arizona.
8
I say Carly Fiorina is partly responsible for this. She lied about PP selling baby body parts; I believe she knew it was a lie; I believe she grandstanded to make political points, and this is a result. Of course access to guns is a huge problem, and mostly responsible, and untreated mental illness, and I don't pretend to know the answers to this, but she exacerbated the situation, took advantage of gullible passions, and owes the people of Colorado Springs an apology, the population of the United States an apology, and she should remove herself from her run for the Presidency, or whatever this might be called, that she is doing now.
22
From the depictions in this story, Dear embraced all of the Tea Party exhortations. Rejects civil society, gun toting, libertarian, authoritarian and fundamentalist christionist.
This is the Republicans' agenda, people. Madness.
This is the Republicans' agenda, people. Madness.
22
Absolutely. I am weary of angry white men, whether they are gun-wielding anarchists or podium-pounding politicians. If these men find our system of government so distasteful, if the freedom it works to support for all its citizens is so contrary to their beliefs, I suggest they move to countries more suited to their philosophies. Anywhere in the Middle East comes to mind.
7
Owning many guns and isolating yourself are signs of paranoia, a mental illness. You cannot isolate one from the other as Republican politicians say we should. Background checks should be required and if someone has anger management issues to the point where they have physically assaulted someone, as Dear did, they should not be allowed to purchase a military style assault weapon. Finally, all sorts of weapons are illegal for civilians to own and the second amendment does not apply to individuals but to organized militias.
5
As others have noted, this is another case of christian terrorism. The faith hates women - and it shows. ISIS in America.
19
There's nothing criminal about being ecerntric but good grief he exhibited all elements of becoming unhinged. Clearly something snapped in him quite a few years ago. Will no state entity step up and flag these flakes?
1
There is something criminal about assaulting your wife, shooting a neighbor's dog, and being a peeping Tom. He had a police record and at least one restraining order against him. Not too hard to flag this person as a danger to society. People have been required to take anger management classes for less.
1
The answer to a problem like this is strengthen the laws in regard to the "right" to have an abortion in this country and an end to the harassment of women who choose to do what they want with their bodies. Our so-called "free" society has permitted those against abortion to have a much bigger say in what goes on in our country. They have used this issue to pursue political goals and garner votes from the likes of this murderer. Women need to be protected against the continuing onslaught against us especially now that the GOP sees us as an enemy.
19
Abortion politics has been used as the leading wedge issue to force through unconstitutional religious laws to break down separation of church and state in the US and deny freedom from religion. It is a tool of treason.
2
When half of Americans don't bother to vote, what do you expect? The fringe element is more motivated and thus holds sway.
I wish we had compulsory voting as they do in Australia, and fine those who fail to do their civic duty. The GOP would be toast and maybe we could even get some remedial action on gerrymandering and redistricting.
I wish we had compulsory voting as they do in Australia, and fine those who fail to do their civic duty. The GOP would be toast and maybe we could even get some remedial action on gerrymandering and redistricting.
1
When news organizations and a major political party give legitimacy to doctored videos, even the mentally unhinged are paying attention. Is it any wonder that another massacre has been the result? The GOP sows its share of seeds which help instill fear and anger among a certain segment of the population. Sadly, abortion clinics have been targets for domestic terrorists for years, yet little to nothing is done to protect the patients or employees. I received a "support PP" car sticker in the mail, yet had to throw it away for fear if I displayed it on my vehicle, either I and/or or my property might become a target.
16
The important thing is that you donated support to PP.
Dear really appears to be one of the unstable sheep prone to believe Fox and
our other right wing hate speech outlets.
A political revolution however is on the rise ala Bernie Sanders.
More of our diverse population are realizing that through voting we
can and will obtain sensible gun legislation as well as address
the challenges of the mentally Ill
our other right wing hate speech outlets.
A political revolution however is on the rise ala Bernie Sanders.
More of our diverse population are realizing that through voting we
can and will obtain sensible gun legislation as well as address
the challenges of the mentally Ill
9
Yet another mass shooting in a "gun-free zone," which the killers/shooters invariably choose because their victims can safely be presumed to be defenseless. France is essentially a gun-free zone throughout. With the threat of ISIS terrorism coming to America, the best possible defense against shooters in populous venues is a heavily armed citizenry and lots of people with concealed weapons. Because cops are seldom there to stop a shooter's attack, the alternative is a police state with most individual rights removed.
4
So those armed folks can mistakenly shoot each other when the gunfire starts?
8
Actually, the cops were right there to stop this one--and one cop got klld, and several others were wounded, so thanks for your apprciation.
As for France, lemme suggst this: fly to CDG, take the RER B downtown, get off at the Gare du Nord, walk around the station for half an hour, and THEN lecture on the country being a gun-free zone.
What they don't have is your average kook running around with an AK-47 and all the ammo a boy could want.
As for France, lemme suggst this: fly to CDG, take the RER B downtown, get off at the Gare du Nord, walk around the station for half an hour, and THEN lecture on the country being a gun-free zone.
What they don't have is your average kook running around with an AK-47 and all the ammo a boy could want.
1
This is the "logic" that begat the killings in Colorado Springs. Folks with guns inexperienced in using them in a stressful situation are a danger to all present. The alternative is not a police state, though that is the typical NRA slippery slope argument. Guns should be registered and their handlers trained, certified, and insured, with insurance companies doing the background checks for lawful possession and mental and physical health. No insurance. No gun.
In this case the blood is on the hands of the GOP for promulgating the guilt of Planned Parenthood with clearly doctored videos and claims of "selling" baby parts. Planned Parenthood provides medical advice for women who make their own decisions.
In this case the blood is on the hands of the GOP for promulgating the guilt of Planned Parenthood with clearly doctored videos and claims of "selling" baby parts. Planned Parenthood provides medical advice for women who make their own decisions.
1
so
can they prosecute the makers of that sick PP video for libel and inciting violence? It is the equivalent of shouting "fire" in a crowded theatre.
can they prosecute the makers of that sick PP video for libel and inciting violence? It is the equivalent of shouting "fire" in a crowded theatre.
19
It looks like a guy with a lot of problems, his opposition to the Planned Parenthood just one of many. Unfortunately, people like that will always be around and with guns easily available, kill us at random.
5
It's time for accountability! The trial should include questioning Mr. Dear about where he got the idea that PP sells baby parts. Did it come from Congressmen? If so, indict them as co-defendants in these murders. Did it come from Carly Fiorina's statements about the imaginary videos she saw? If so, indict her. Did it come from one of the Christian cult church leaders who spring like toadstools in Colorado? If so, indict them.
22
The biggest liars in the US speak from pulpits.
5
along with the politicians.
I will never understand the media's propensity for humanizing every white mass murderer. There is nothing endearing or romantic about being a loner and living off the grid with your arsenal. The police need to profile these white, gun-owning, disaffected angry men. Why are they allowed to roam free until they decide to re-enter society to kill? In the last 3 years, of the many black men, women, and children killed by police, how many were armed or had a cache of weapons at home? Yet we have accepted that the black body is inherently violent, that an unarmed black man running or walking away from the police is the most dangerous creature on earth. But every mass killer of the past eight months has been some white guy angry about something. The narrative promoted by the media and white culture is that we'll never know why these individuals committed these heinous acts. Really? These men all come from the same group of people who support Trump and Cruz, who despise women and blacks and immigrants. They idolize guns and live on a diet of hate, ignorance, and Fox News. We're only just beginning to analyze whites the way blacks are picked apart: Rising heroin addiction, rising death rates, guns, anger, racism. Something is truly amiss in "Middle America."
25
I totally agree as do so many of nyt readers. These guys are the "Christian" version is Isis. They are dreaming of their own Caliphate. The "leaders" be they evangelical pastors or politicians can feel the energy and only care to corral it. Any mass shooting is the collateral damage that all revolutionaries laugh at. This skill is the one skill everybody always credits Hitler with. He took Teutonic myth and mixed it with German identity , threw in some major brutality and beastiality and nearly won it all. Omg now there is a tv miniseries depicting a hypothetical future after his victory.
It says in the Old Testament "in every generation Amelec arises" . I am always impressed on how wise my ancestors were! We as primates apparently just recently descended from the trees carry some pretty brutal DNA. Our collective abilities to selectively abstract disparate parts of reality and fiction, coupled by a flawed integrative mechanism is evidenced throughout our deteriorating biosphere.
Please g-d make an appearance. Tell all your children of all color and form to beat our swords into plow shares.
It says in the Old Testament "in every generation Amelec arises" . I am always impressed on how wise my ancestors were! We as primates apparently just recently descended from the trees carry some pretty brutal DNA. Our collective abilities to selectively abstract disparate parts of reality and fiction, coupled by a flawed integrative mechanism is evidenced throughout our deteriorating biosphere.
Please g-d make an appearance. Tell all your children of all color and form to beat our swords into plow shares.
1
Imagine if he had been Muslim, an immigrant from Syria! Fox News would be talking about it 24/7, along with all the usual suspects. But just another white male mass murderer? Nothing.
24
I don't suppose liberals will consider giving a bit of ground on abortion. You know, every successful abortion does result in a death.
Of course the man is crazy and does not belong in the ranks of Mother Teresa and Aviva King, two opponents of abortion. But some WILL put all three in the same basket.
A pity really.
Of course the man is crazy and does not belong in the ranks of Mother Teresa and Aviva King, two opponents of abortion. But some WILL put all three in the same basket.
A pity really.
2
Let me get this straight a murderer and a terrorist kills at least 3 people and you feel liberals should give way on abortion! What do you mean give way...we should agree to make it a little bit criminal we should agree to a few forced ultra sounds (want to be first?) I am so sick of this kind of ridiculous talk. Liberals want woman to have the right to choose. People like this terroist and Marco Rubio want women to die! Not much common ground there.
I suggest right wing relgious control freaks give way.. Don't agree with abortion..DONT HAVE ONE! Let the rest of us alone!
I suggest right wing relgious control freaks give way.. Don't agree with abortion..DONT HAVE ONE! Let the rest of us alone!
7
Women have a right to gynecological care. 97% of all Planned Parenthood activities have nothing to do with abortions. Why should women going in for a well woman check, cancer screening, a Pap smear, treatment for an infection or disease, be killed by lunatic armed murderers like the NRA and the Tea Party have encouraged?
What if men couldn't go see their doctors without having to have a safe room and a security door?
What if men couldn't go see their doctors without having to have a safe room and a security door?
7
"I don't suppose liberals will consider giving a bit of ground on abortion"
When I said this I was right, and you prove that I was right.
And no, I am neither right wing nor a religious control freak. I am an independent, a follower of Gandhi and an admirer of our current Pope (although I personally am an atheist).
I used to subscribe to the NYT but left it because there are too many angry people posting here who never want to hear another side of the story. Partisanship wins every time.
When I said this I was right, and you prove that I was right.
And no, I am neither right wing nor a religious control freak. I am an independent, a follower of Gandhi and an admirer of our current Pope (although I personally am an atheist).
I used to subscribe to the NYT but left it because there are too many angry people posting here who never want to hear another side of the story. Partisanship wins every time.
1
Another horrific act of violence. Another round of the usual sanctions: renewed cries for gun control, prosecution for a hate crime, tightened security around soft targets.
Maybe it's the Republican presidential campaigns, but I'm starting to feel that the coarsening of public discourse may be partly responsible for this epidemic. Dear reportedly said something to the effect, "no more baby parts."
If for no other reason than the presence of unstable members of the public, we should all ratchet down the rhetoric. Don't support politicians who inflame emotions. Don't subsidize "entertainment," like video games, films, and certain sports, that promote brutalization.
Maybe it's the Republican presidential campaigns, but I'm starting to feel that the coarsening of public discourse may be partly responsible for this epidemic. Dear reportedly said something to the effect, "no more baby parts."
If for no other reason than the presence of unstable members of the public, we should all ratchet down the rhetoric. Don't support politicians who inflame emotions. Don't subsidize "entertainment," like video games, films, and certain sports, that promote brutalization.
7
So this guy now sets policy? Americans need to give up rights to make this guy whole. Are you kidding me? So if someone keeps robbing your house , may be you should simply get his bank routing number and checking account and agree to send him a monthly stipend so he won't keep breaking the window? I thought that was the definition of extortion?
This man had a cross on his door, raged against abortion, and exhorted people to accept Jesus. Why can't we call this what it is? Radical Christian Fundamentalist Terrorism. If we're going to be reductionist, we might as well be equal opportunity about it.
22
As disgusting as the crazy Carly-Speak lies about both Planned Parenthood and fetal tissue and organ research is, I am finding the direction of this discussion both completely predictable and deeply depressing. This man appears to be deeply disturbed. That he had no community or friends or family that could have helped him find help is tragic, not just for him but for the dead and injured. That the sheer number of guns sloshing around in our country made it inevitable that he could arm himself so thoroughly is inarguable. But the pro-gun-rights mis-direction about identifying the mentally ill rather than legislating gun ownership is spouted without any thoughts about the kind of truly scary Constitutional issues that would arise from government assessments of individual's mental health status becoming the basis of removing any Constitutional rights from that person. Talk about your slippery slopes to an Orwellian nightmare! I never see this discussed.
1
Stop, stop it right now! He is no more disturbed than Carly Farina and her GOP colleagues. They create this madness with their lies and their guns for everyone approach and then they claim to be pro life..what a crock.
No excuses. He knew what he was doing. He had a gun to kill people with whom he disagreed. His mental illness, should he be suffering frim one, is no excuse and no defense.
No excuses. He knew what he was doing. He had a gun to kill people with whom he disagreed. His mental illness, should he be suffering frim one, is no excuse and no defense.
2
When I was a child back in the 1950's there was a popular innocuous tv program entitled "Queen For A Day". Sixty years later, we have a barrage of utterly inane and so-called "reality" shows about vulgar obnoxious housewives, the Kardashian nitwits, naked dating etc. etc. but with one glaring omission, which is that there is not a single show devoted to what I like to call, " Killing American Style". If you haven't noticed this is precisely what is happening in the rightwing fueled paranoid, gun obsessed culture where adults actually believe President Obama is about to show up at their doors demanding that they turn over their high powered rifles and other assorted killing machines. Apparently, Dear, a disturbed and angry man, belongs to this category where according to the police, he made some comment about "no more baby parts" when he was taken into custody. Meanwhile, our GOP candidates are running around the country yammering on about illegal immigrants, Muslims, Syrian refugees etc., while right here at home, we are killing each other at an unprecedented rate thanks to the power of the gun lobbies and their feeble minded lackeys in Congress and state legislatures. Tune in tomorrow for the next chapter in "Killing American Style".
3
It would be a good idea for the NRA to enlist their members to push congress to establish an effective Mental Health system in this country so perhaps we could get ahead of some of the these tragedies
1
Mental health is just an excuse to allow this kind of fanfic to get away with murder and the people who fuel his rage to excuse themselves. It is time for the relgious fanatics, including bishops and politicians, in our country who would rather women die than have access to health services and abortion services to be held accountable.
We should also end tax exemptions for churches and end any exemptions they have from any generally applicable laws. It is time for churches to obey the law and be held accountable when they don't.
We should also end tax exemptions for churches and end any exemptions they have from any generally applicable laws. It is time for churches to obey the law and be held accountable when they don't.
2
Ranting, "no baby parts."Anti Obama. Gun toting anti abortionist. Sounds like the Republican presidential candidates.
24
Hoping that slain civilians were not Planned Parenthood Patients but no matter who they are they will be missed.
2
It seems only fair that the right wingers responsible for the 'baby parts' propaganda, should pay for this disturbed gentleman's defense. After all, the idea was to get an outraged reaction from the populous, and that is exactly what happened.
11
Ted Cruz, Mike Huckabee and Bobby Jindel attended the National Religious Liberties Conference where a preacher spoke about going to gay weddings and killing gay people.
Guns and religion. The Republican Party has embraced this culture. Ted Cruz could become president. Americans need to think about what kind of country we want and ask themselves what kinds of violence our so called leaders are advocating.
Guns and religion. The Republican Party has embraced this culture. Ted Cruz could become president. Americans need to think about what kind of country we want and ask themselves what kinds of violence our so called leaders are advocating.
12
I scanned the comments and didn't see one from Carly Fiorina saying she has blood on her hands for this last shooting. Ms. Fiorina, we're waiting for a statement from you.
18
Absent this man's emerging story, the Times photograph accompanying this article appears almost Thoreauvian. Yet many sets of footprints from investigators now trying to glean more bits of information, some understanding shatter that myth.
"Robert Dear...," the headline begins like a love letter sent, too late.
Countless others across our nation occupy such places, even among us in cities. They manage alone by piecing together their place in society from their past lives, news, political ads, entertainments and "social" media, while avoiding daily human contact.
Do they create a separate world by their thoughts and of their rules, unchecked by our daily human interactions and observations? Do dark interior thoughts we all sometimes have become prominent, no longer easily dismissed?
I cannot say what Robert Dear believed he was doing or saying by this event. I know somewhere, inside, he was asking, telling us, there was a need for help. He surrendered to police. His rampage ended. Our nightmare continues.
The photograph, again. Must we stack our wood so evenly by labels for the isolated details of this event? Can there be any warmth on these cold winter nights from our tidiness, our complacency? Those few scattered clouds on the horizon? Storm's retreat, or another approaching?
"Robert Dear...," the headline begins like a love letter sent, too late.
Countless others across our nation occupy such places, even among us in cities. They manage alone by piecing together their place in society from their past lives, news, political ads, entertainments and "social" media, while avoiding daily human contact.
Do they create a separate world by their thoughts and of their rules, unchecked by our daily human interactions and observations? Do dark interior thoughts we all sometimes have become prominent, no longer easily dismissed?
I cannot say what Robert Dear believed he was doing or saying by this event. I know somewhere, inside, he was asking, telling us, there was a need for help. He surrendered to police. His rampage ended. Our nightmare continues.
The photograph, again. Must we stack our wood so evenly by labels for the isolated details of this event? Can there be any warmth on these cold winter nights from our tidiness, our complacency? Those few scattered clouds on the horizon? Storm's retreat, or another approaching?
1
Abortion is killing of babies. People are trying hard to say it is not the case. America doesnt have a strong family culture. Everything is personal freedom for them. More people are becoming isolated, dejected and resort to violence, drugs and cocaine. When will this stop?.
2
97% of Planned Parenthood's activities are basic gynecological care for women. That means cancer screenings, treatment of diseases, infections, diagnoses, and other reproductive system problems like painful periods, heavy periods, etc.
This is not about abortion except in lunatic minds and in hate speech. This is about women's health care, and their right to care without being slaughtered by domestic terrorists.
This is not about abortion except in lunatic minds and in hate speech. This is about women's health care, and their right to care without being slaughtered by domestic terrorists.
5
When women have access to birth control it prevents unwanted pregnancy and the need for an abortion. Who are you to tell others how to live?
1
What does your comment have to do with this guy who decided to launch a terrorist attack against a Planned Parenthood office and the police who responded?
1
Based on this mornings headline, I now feel very comfortable assigning some of the blame for this latest episode to Catly Fiorina. I want to hear from her today. I want to see her asked if she accepts the responsibility for this episode.
5
Americans must realize that we are all part of a "shooting death lottery."
You and I are in the lottery.
Every time we leave our home.
With essentially unregulated access to a range of weapons (given the gun show loophole for easy purchase), 300 million weapons in private hands, a "you're on your own" society that leaves many of its citizens behind to fester and brood about their dire economic circumstances, little access to mental health services for struggling people, with one of its major parties spewing hate rhetoric and citing "bizarro" facts that don't match really, the stage is nicely set for the non-stop, regular slaughter we see in myriad public places as well as private domiciles.
So, you (yes YOU!) and I are in the lottery.
When you or I, including our kids, are in the wrong place at the wrong time, whether it be the mall or movies or university or grade school or restaurant or a wedding…
We will be shot to death.
A bullet will rip us apart.
At that moment it will be us, not the other guy.
It will be our picture on CNN, our family and friends making the tearful statement about how much they loved us.
We are all in the American "shooting death lottery" and there is a winner every day.
The only question is are we the land of the free and the home of the brave and are we brave enough to realize that 90% of us who are outraged are stronger than the crazies and the NRA that enables them.
You and I are in the lottery.
Every time we leave our home.
With essentially unregulated access to a range of weapons (given the gun show loophole for easy purchase), 300 million weapons in private hands, a "you're on your own" society that leaves many of its citizens behind to fester and brood about their dire economic circumstances, little access to mental health services for struggling people, with one of its major parties spewing hate rhetoric and citing "bizarro" facts that don't match really, the stage is nicely set for the non-stop, regular slaughter we see in myriad public places as well as private domiciles.
So, you (yes YOU!) and I are in the lottery.
When you or I, including our kids, are in the wrong place at the wrong time, whether it be the mall or movies or university or grade school or restaurant or a wedding…
We will be shot to death.
A bullet will rip us apart.
At that moment it will be us, not the other guy.
It will be our picture on CNN, our family and friends making the tearful statement about how much they loved us.
We are all in the American "shooting death lottery" and there is a winner every day.
The only question is are we the land of the free and the home of the brave and are we brave enough to realize that 90% of us who are outraged are stronger than the crazies and the NRA that enables them.
17
Wondering how the folks at the Fiorina campaign are feeling. Her description of that purported wiggling fetus on the Planned Parenthood table waiting for his brain to be harvested -- a video that was proven, over and over, not to exist -- was nothing more than a twisted fabrication used for shock value in her waning political campaign. Could that furor, untruthful as it was, have contributed to the madman's rationale?
10
The people who deliberately constructed the inflammatory and false story about Planned Parenthood's killing babies and selling their dead bodies for harvesting should be brought in front of state and federal grand juries to explore their culpability for this terrorist act.
9
It is wrong to publicize the reasons offered by this man. He attacked people in order to bring publicity to his 'cause'. He has now succeeded.
Have we rewarded this man,, and have we guaranteed that the next fanatic will seek publicity by shooting more people.
We should not publish his name, we should certainly not publish his reasons why.
That is why he did it. It is why the next one will do it.
Have we rewarded this man,, and have we guaranteed that the next fanatic will seek publicity by shooting more people.
We should not publish his name, we should certainly not publish his reasons why.
That is why he did it. It is why the next one will do it.
2
President Obama has declared that "This is not normal." It may not be normal in a normal country, but in exceptional America it is all too sickeningly normal, and getting more normal by the month. The President also said that "enough is enough." Let's allow a few weeks to pass, when we'll again discover that no, indeed, it is not enough for our exceptionality.
President Obama is not accountable for this. He owes nothing to the lethal gun lobby. He has done what he can in the face of a deadly US Congress including, but hardly limited to, a Republican Party in hock to the NRA.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
President Obama is not accountable for this. He owes nothing to the lethal gun lobby. He has done what he can in the face of a deadly US Congress including, but hardly limited to, a Republican Party in hock to the NRA.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
3
This is an act of terrorism, just as much as the attacks by Da'esh. The difference between terrorism and other kinds of violence is that the former is motivated by an ideology, whether secular or - as is increasingly the case today - religious. The mistake liberals often make is to distinguish sharply between the act of violence and the motivation behind it. So we speak of "radicals" as if they were some new kind of humanity, while in fact they are simply people who take whatever they believe in to its logical conclusion. The problem, then, is the ideology itself and we should not be afraid to ask what it is about Islam that breeds Da'esh or what it is about evangelical Christianity that encourages anti-abortion crusades. Guns, mental illness, economic deprivation. - they may be contributing causes but the ideology remains the main one. History confirms, again and again, the truth of Voltaire's observation that people who believe absurdities will commit atrocities. Respect for other points of view should not prevent us from calling out an absurdity - such as that the Planned Parenthood commits murder - for what it is.
7
Let's call this incident was it really is, by its proper name: terrorism.
Robert Dear shot random people at a shopping plaza and healthcare facility in order to sow fear in women who wish to exercise their constitutional right to abortion (or to get cancer screenings or birth control or medicine for their yeast infection, etc). His thoughts may be jumbled but his intent is clear as water. He is just as much a terrorist - if less deadly - as the ISIS creeps who shot patrons at the Bataclan. NOT some loner with mental health issues. A terrorist. And despicable public figures like Carly Fiorina who incited him, have abetted terrorism.
Robert Dear shot random people at a shopping plaza and healthcare facility in order to sow fear in women who wish to exercise their constitutional right to abortion (or to get cancer screenings or birth control or medicine for their yeast infection, etc). His thoughts may be jumbled but his intent is clear as water. He is just as much a terrorist - if less deadly - as the ISIS creeps who shot patrons at the Bataclan. NOT some loner with mental health issues. A terrorist. And despicable public figures like Carly Fiorina who incited him, have abetted terrorism.
14
Why aren't most of the media calling him a domestic terrorist, that is what he is ?
13
The news media clearly suspects that Robert Dear is an antiabortionist terrorist and will label him as such if that become established fact. The only difference between terrorists and murderers is motivation. One is not necessarily more evil than the other. For example, John Brown was an antislavery terrorist, but he is celebrated as a hero by many. Robert Dear would probably prefer being call a terrorists than a murderer.
1
Guns usage should be forbid by law.
1
In the company of their own thoughts, millions of Americans think this man is a hero.
2
I can't help but think Mr. Dear's behavior is that of a mentally ill person, who may even be judged incompetent to stand trial. It doesn't excuse what he did but it might partially explain it.
1
No doubt, Carly Fiorina will still sleep soundly.
7
Under republican logic , this guy would have to be labeled as a 'radical christian' ...
4
Is anyone surprised?Banning guns will not stop this.Obama is wrong.What will stop this is eliminating plea bargains,psychiatric illness defense strategies at trial,etc.Pass a law that simply states if you commit a crime with a gun you receive a 20 year sentence without parole.
2
You are aware the NRa has fought such things
2
Great idea! Look at what the death penalty has done to curb murder rates.
3
That already happens at the federal level.
We have 2 issues here.<br/>The obvious one is guns, Colorado has background checks. Not clear if his gun was legal in Colorado. Not clear if her would pass such a check, find no felonies here, no crimes that would stop the purchase of a long gun.<br/>He obviously is not part of a well regulated militia, but a sad and ultimately extremely dangerous person that we choose as a nation o arm.<br/><br/>The less obvious is mental health facilities. For those who forget we hugely defunded mental health facilities in the late 70's into the 80's.<br/>This was a joint effort by liberals , arguing for personal freedom close these facilities let people free, and Reagan supporters , save money cut back these wasteful programs.<br/><br/>What is clear is we have severlly damaged, essentially, no mental health support network for people like this man.<br/>Lets be sure we examine both issues.
24
This is happening in many cities especially NYC. We can thank our mayor, deBlasio for this epidemic. It is so very sad to see these unfortunate people on the streets with no where to go.
He was a hunter who probably purchased his rifle in South Carolina and carried it to Colorado.
1
Pass all the gun laws you want. This guy would not have obeyed them. He was on a mission from God.
1
"What you take into your hand, you take into your heart." Gun owners are many times more likely to use a gun than non-gun owners. Period.
7
The problem is not as simple as guns.
What many commentators fail to see is that abortion is seen by many sane and rational people to be equivalent to murder. In fact many readers and commentators will be outraged by this analogy.
When life begins at conception, killing the fetus is killing innocent lives. For every victim of gun violence, thousands plus are killed at abortion clinics. This in no way justify killings at PP. But it is a fact that unfortunately stirs strong emotions in people and cause the unstable to act out in such a heinous manner.
What many commentators fail to see is that abortion is seen by many sane and rational people to be equivalent to murder. In fact many readers and commentators will be outraged by this analogy.
When life begins at conception, killing the fetus is killing innocent lives. For every victim of gun violence, thousands plus are killed at abortion clinics. This in no way justify killings at PP. But it is a fact that unfortunately stirs strong emotions in people and cause the unstable to act out in such a heinous manner.
2
We don't fail to see it. We just disagree. And we are outraged that you presume to harass, enslave, and kill living human beings simply because they have different beliefs.
And that you commit atrocities in the name of preserving life, and try to blame them on the victims, is one of the purest forms of hate crimes in history.
And that you commit atrocities in the name of preserving life, and try to blame them on the victims, is one of the purest forms of hate crimes in history.
7
It is extraordinary to talk out of both sides but kudos, you did
5
There is the problem, these are not 'sane and rational' people.
2
When candidates like Carly Fiorina can tell outrageous lies like her assertion that there were tapes showing live babies being dismembered for body parts, it could influence unstable and violent characters like Dear with tragic consequences.
16
Fiona was correct in saying aborted babies are dismembered and sold for medical research. However, she didn't say the video show a baby being dismembered. She said the video showed a aborted baby still moving its limbs as it lay on a table following the procedure. However, it turned out the image had been inserted into the video that Fiona saw to simulate an aborted baby. It may an miscarriage baby rather than an aborted baby.
William, until you can use the word "baby" accurately, your comments lack credibility. You might look up words like "embryo" and "fetus"; that would help.
4
Look, cigarettes and booze are taxed through the roof, the rational being that they are inherent health risks and the tax puts money back into society for the billions in health costs. Guns are responsible for tens of thousands of deaths and injury. Tax guns and ammunition to levels such that nut-jobs in trailers at least might think twice before spending all their beer money.
15
Gun sales are taxed, but the Supreme Court would rule any sales tax that made guns difficult for average Americans to purchase unconstitutional.
Every industry that causes social costs should be taxed enought to pay every last penny of those costs.
A neighbor of mine solved the mystery of why someone like Dear isn't necessarily "crazy". I had long wondered why a few people seem to think the solution to the idea that abortion is murder is more murder. It never made sense to me.
My neighbor said that someone like Dear believes it is "justice" for all those involved with "baby killing" to be killed themselves.
Sadly, the Dears of the world don't worry about the fact that it's outside the law and also unconstitutional to make oneself judge and jury.
The death of innocents are also unaccounted for; after all, in what is left of minds like Dear's, the innocents were aiding and abetting abortion.
My neighbor said that someone like Dear believes it is "justice" for all those involved with "baby killing" to be killed themselves.
Sadly, the Dears of the world don't worry about the fact that it's outside the law and also unconstitutional to make oneself judge and jury.
The death of innocents are also unaccounted for; after all, in what is left of minds like Dear's, the innocents were aiding and abetting abortion.
2
There is not one honest person in the entire mob of claimants to know what God thinks about anything.
1
The guns are only part of the problem. The bigger problem are media outlets and political forces that barrage us daily about the "evils" of the other side. They are relentless in their fear mongering and grave warnings. It is just enough to send an element in this country over the edge. Look at all of the violence that has happened in this country over the last thirty years. How many times did the perpetrator of violence spew out some fragmented soundbite that he heard on radio/TV or read on the internet? The rhetoric can be lethal. The guns aren't going away, so maybe we need to focus on limiting the perceived fears.
5
The sort of issue-generated violence you refer to is rare. For example, there have been 10 antiabortion murders since 1993. We have about 12,000 murders per year. There were 4 hate crimes murders in 2014.
Examine many of the high profile cases. Timothy McVeigh, the two that shot the police officers in Vegas, the South Carolina church shootings... I can assure you that it is a motivation larger than you believe.
2
I see a lot of posts on the role of guns here, which is appropriate. What is more insidious is the role of hate speech, which many of you have noted. Hate speech sells to the base, and is a tactic that Trump, Cruz, Huckabee, Fiorina .... seem to use well. While many can see it for what it is - posturing - there are a unhinged few who cannot see a cartoon from reality. Our political "leaders" really need to consider if they are willing to have the blood of innocents on their hands as a reasonable price for being elected to the highest office of one of the largest democracies in the world, and that to one that fancies itself as a beacon on the hill.
6
Sorry, there are no answers, there are no solutions. Whether it's a mentally ill "off the grid" man or a female suicide bomber, it's a deadly combination of weapons and ideaologies, fueled by cowardly loudmouths who inspire violence from the comfort of their chair or the safety of the broadcast studio. Get used to it.
4
Anti-Abortion advocates have never made any secret of their reason for opposition, they believe abortion is the taking of a human life. Pro-abortion advocates answer that women have a right to control their bodies. The difference is irreconcilable. There is no live and let live ground when the stakes are human life. The debate will go on and on, occasionally it will flare up with violence such as we just saw in Colorado.
Right wing politicians, activists and media personalities have distorted the mission and operation of Planned Parenthood for years. They have smeared and attacked the dedicated folks who work in clinics, killed doctors and launched a campaign of harassment through picketing individual clinics. The lies and physical intimidation would not be tolerated anywhere else, but it seems to be acceptable to attack women who are just trying to get health care. I hope what happened in Colorado is at least a tipping point which will cause a retrenchment from the lies and the hate-spewing on the right.
9
The issue will always circle back to guns and their easy availability in this country where so many are mentally ill. Most will kill themselves as that is the highest statistic of injury and death when it comes to guns and devastate lives that way. But to show how horribly wrong we are when it comes to firearms and how much control the NRA lobbying group has you cannot easily destroy a gun. Try it. Go to your local sheriff or police station and try to turn in your weapon to be destroyed. You will learn of a law that prevents you from doing it. Instead, the weapon will be sold and the proceeds will go to the local school system. You can't get rid of guns even if you want to. There is no way to do so. Many states have also passed these laws to protect the philosophical notion put out by the NRA that guns are safe and why would anyone destroy them? We can start taking action. People can voluntarily destroy weapons. Let's build a system outside the law to do so. Let's set up a non-profit where people can turn their weapons in voluntarily to destroy them. Let's collect all those stories of how these guns destroyed people's lives. Let us see guns for what they are: an evil.
4
Why is it that this incidence reminds me of the shooting in Arizona in 2011 when Democratic Congresswoman Gabrielle Gifford was shot in the head? Oh yes of course, at that time politicians on the right like Sarah Palin were inciting anger with militant language and as I recall cross hairs on the faces of Democratic congressman on her website. This time we have politicians on the right clinging to a series of heavily edited videos threatening to close down the government in an effort to defund Planned Parenthood. Of course they knew the authenticity of these videos was highly questionable. It wasn't relevant. The objective was the same as in 2011- to agitate the base into action. The result is the same. Propaganda employed to spread hate and fear is all that is required for one lonely vulnerable and well armed person to fall off the tipping point.
17
It's worse than reliance on "highly questionable" videos. The media need to emphasize that the videos of that group (group? or just one individual?) are falsehoods. And that vehement and strident assertions such as those found in Candidate Fiorino's debate speech are lies. Left uncontested, the rabid right is left to demand that poor women shouldn't have health care provided by Planned Parenthood. And should be deprived of contraceptive assistance leading, of course and inevitably, to more and more unplanned pregnancies. As MBTN said, "Propaganda employed to spread hate and fear is all that is required for one lonely vulnerable and well armed person to fall off the tipping point." National publications such as the New York Times and the Washington Post owe it to their readers to emphasize when propaganda's assertions are false.
4
"He taught their son to hunt doves, as many Southern fathers do."
That metaphor really just says it all, doesn't it?
That metaphor really just says it all, doesn't it?
17
Why are we not calling this man what he is: A Christian Extremist Terrorist. This is a terrorist attack, plain and simple. If he were Muslim you can be sure the headlines would be different. I have always felt that the white supremacists and other far-right organizations are bigger threat to the rest of the county (New York and Boston being exceptions) than Islamic jihadists. I doubt they can find Colorado on a map. And what is in the water in Colorado that creates all of this horror?
13
In a statement, President Obama said (in part) “we have to do something about the easy accessibility of weapons of war on our streets to people who have no business wielding them.” If the collective ‘we’ refers to the American public that abhor gun violence...they have already expressed their anger...they have repeatedly approached the government to protect them from ongoing violence and tragedy. They have done their part. It is the president and congress that have not.
1
Feel free to hold much or most of Congress responsible - they deserve it. But it strikes me as unfair to assign equal blame to Pres. Obama and to all of the legislators who aren't in the pocket of the NRA. They assuredly do not deserve it.
This person started his rampage in a BANK and then LATER moved to the other building. The Planned Parenthood complex. This alleged utterance seems to be at least partially contrived and seems to be an attempt to politicize this event.
1
Bernie Sanders hit the nail on the head.
Fascist rhetoric from so-called political leaders has consequences. It is no coincidence that this disturbed, and heavily armed man chose a Planned Parenthood to attack soon after hate mongering Republicans went out of their way to lie about and vilify the organization to please the ghost of Jerry Falwell.
When they direct their angry rhetoric in a bigoted way towards immigrants, Muslims, refugees and anyone else their ever more hateful base does not like, I shudder to think of the behavior that will follow.
It is ok to disagree with the political viewpoints of others. When did it become ok to aggressively spew hate just to raise some money?
Fascist rhetoric from so-called political leaders has consequences. It is no coincidence that this disturbed, and heavily armed man chose a Planned Parenthood to attack soon after hate mongering Republicans went out of their way to lie about and vilify the organization to please the ghost of Jerry Falwell.
When they direct their angry rhetoric in a bigoted way towards immigrants, Muslims, refugees and anyone else their ever more hateful base does not like, I shudder to think of the behavior that will follow.
It is ok to disagree with the political viewpoints of others. When did it become ok to aggressively spew hate just to raise some money?
14
Something here is missing. Sure, the perp has the typical malajusted profile found in many shooting incidents, but no known vendettas against PP. There is also not much information coming out from authorities. My gut says that he just might be a "hired gun" for other interests who do not wish to be publicized. Dear might just be the sort of confused loner who makes a great front man. I'm waiting to see what emerges here.
4
Who cares about his "motives"?
You do not kill. Period.
You do not kill. Period.
7
But motive and so called hate crimes are perfect to advance the liberal agenda.
This article would have a lot more impact if the NY Times had run a parallel story about the whack jobs that spliced the baby-parts-for-sale video
People have been killed. Don't you think your readers would like a little more in-depth reporting?
13
Frustratingly; excruciatingly, as we continue to observe. trying to understand and resolve this kind of tragic acting-out psychopathology problem at it's surface level renders resolution impossible. As Albert Einstein stated": "We can not solve our problems with the same level of thinking that created them." It's necessary to get to the roots by going deeper; beyond what we see on the surface; beyond only guns and "causes."
24
My first though when seeing the shooter's trailer in a remote area was that it was a scene out of Breaking Bad or a composite of the typical Donald Trump voter. Either way, if this unstable man was Black and acted the way he did throughout his life, there is little doubt that he would have been either imprisoned or shot by law enforcement by the tender age of 57. I believe that Mr. Dear (an ironic mal à propos straight from a literary farce for a namesake) is the tip of the iceberg when it comes to borderline sane angry White male Republican voters. My hunch is that he isolated himself, listened only to a steady diet of angry extremist Conservative talk radio, Fox News & anti-Obama rhetoric while maintaining an avid interest in guns, hunting, anti-women agenda, animal cruelty reflected in his interest in sadomasichism & history of hurting animals all of which ties in to his desire to seek revenge through a proxy target of GOP hatred: a Planned Parehood clinic. There is no doubt in my mind that unhinged individuals fitting Mr. Dears profile make up a large segment of the GOP base & are susceptible to fiery & hate filled GOP propaganda that was displayed during the GOP debates especially by Carly Fiorina, Ted Cruz & Donald Trump. If I were an attorney for the Colorado Planned Parenthood, I would file a defamation lawsuit against the Republican Party as they are clearly guilty of defamatory statements that resulted in wrongful deaths. We must prevent further violence.
10
Robert Dear, like Officer Garrett Swasey who was gunned down by Dear, is a victim of reckless speeches by prominent conservatives who were spreading falsehood about Planned Parenthood. Where is the latter's accountability?
13
Trying to analyze what was wrong with this man is wasted space. He was crazy and had a gun. As long as America doesn't get this, many more will be shot. Quite frankly I don't believe that this situation will ever improve: it is America that has gone crazy and it is America that has guns. We have become the cancer.
2
I'll cancel my NRA membership as soon as a gun is indicted and convicted of a crime. Or as soon as Obama and Bloomberg disarm their security details.
2
This comment demonstrates that it is precisely the people who want guns who shouldn't have them.
11
This comment demonstrates that it is precisely hysterical people blaming inanimate objects for crime.
First, I am surprised at Mr. Dear's pedigree. I expected to read that he was a high school dropout, semi literate with little formal education."Mais non!"Mr. Dear has a college degree, made a living as an art dealer, and his father was a graduate of the Citadel. I feel sorry for his victims, but I feel sorry for him as well, for having gone off the beam, committed a crime he will pay for with a lifetime prison sentence."If only we could have gotten to him in sooner"must be the regret of many health professionals.Some people thrive on solitude. For others,being alone can exacerbate their fear of society and their rage. Notice sadly that O and his AG were quick to politicize the tragedy:O ranted against the SECOND AMENDMENT("Enough is enough") and Lynch put in a plug for PLANNED PARENTHOOD.
3
Pretty sure Dear himself "politicized" it by going out of his way to attack a PP facility. After that, it's not so much "politicizing" as it is "observing reality."
The edited and embellished videos released by the Center for Medical Progress are no different than yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater.... CMC should face criminal charges for their intentional and fraudulent acts that have resulted in death and injury to innocent people.
11
I really wish we had a president with the courage to step up to the lectern, look the cameras straight in the lens and, instead of saying "Enough is enough" for the umpteenth time (since, clearly, the carnage and mayhem that is now the norm we live with is not enough for the millions of gun-crazed fanatics in our midst) would say this: "This blood is on the hands of Carly FIorina who lied about Planned Parenthood when she said it deals in baby's body parts and, when caught in her lie, refused to retract it. Carly, this one's on you." What would this accomplish? Not much. But we so badly need to hear the truth told in this country -- boldly and baldly told, and told over and over until, incrementally, bit by bit, people listen and demand change. Until people look up from their daily lives and realize the extent to which this country, so far as guns are concerned, has become a mad house where the lunatics are walking around with automatic weapons.
187
I so agree with you. Time to start using the words LIE and LIAR and not untruth or not truthful. Why can't our media just call these politicians what they are -- liars! This incident falls directly in Fiorinas lap, she's the one who keeps lying about the PP video that no one can produce.
4
Were President Obama to utter anything as you suggest he would immediately be criticized for politicizing the tragedy. We already know the truth, but continue to believe outside forces are more of a danger to us. Describing this terrorist as a "loner" makes us all feel safer as if it is an isolated incident. The NRA and its supporters eagerly remind us how any sensible gun legislation will harm law-abiding citizens, not criminals. Meanwhile these incidents continue, and for the most part they are committed by people who were law-abiding until they weren't.
1
You don't know much about Republican base voters, do you?
If President Obama did that (denounce Fiorina explicitly), her poll numbers would go into the stratosphere.
If President Obama did that (denounce Fiorina explicitly), her poll numbers would go into the stratosphere.
3
The people who spread lies about Planned Parenthood that they sold fetal tissues are accessories to murder in this case. They should be tried along with Robert Dear., yet another Christian Terrorist.
In order to have true long-lasting peace, an end to all these killings, we need to change our way of thinking about guns, similar to what was done at the end of the civil war in Mozambique. They literally turned swords into plowshares based on the teaching in the Old Testament in their campaign called 'Transforming Arms into Tools' The most beautiful example of this is the Throne of Weapons in the British Museum. see:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Throne_of_Weapons
In order to have true long-lasting peace, an end to all these killings, we need to change our way of thinking about guns, similar to what was done at the end of the civil war in Mozambique. They literally turned swords into plowshares based on the teaching in the Old Testament in their campaign called 'Transforming Arms into Tools' The most beautiful example of this is the Throne of Weapons in the British Museum. see:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Throne_of_Weapons
5
This is domestic terrorism tantamount to Islamic extremistin other parts of the world. This country spends billions fighting it hafe way around the world when we should be containing it here. Prolife uploads a video of lies that leads to killing of innocent people. Tragically ironic.
4
After I read about Robert Dear's life before Friday's murders, I listened to Ben Carson carry on about terrorists infiltrating refugee groups and operating on the assumption that they will strike. Does he think about protection from native-born terrorists like Dear? He said he never saw a bullet-riddled body as upsetting as encroaching on the 2nd Amendment. No precautions for jim when it comes to instruments of death. No concern for what Planned Parenthood rightly calls "domestic terrorism."
8
It's not just that three people were killed by gunfire in Colorado Springs this month.
It's that it's the second time this month that three people were killed by gunfire in Colorado Springs.
On Halloween day, a concerned citizen called 911 to report a man walking around waving a gun. The 911 dispatcher reminded her that Colorado is an open-carry state, so he was within his rights.
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/colorado-springs-area/colorado-spri...
Colorado sounds like a charming place, but it's off my list of vacation destinations.
It's that it's the second time this month that three people were killed by gunfire in Colorado Springs.
On Halloween day, a concerned citizen called 911 to report a man walking around waving a gun. The 911 dispatcher reminded her that Colorado is an open-carry state, so he was within his rights.
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/colorado-springs-area/colorado-spri...
Colorado sounds like a charming place, but it's off my list of vacation destinations.
11
We surely need to address gun control, and if we can't agree on more stringent ways to hold ownership accountable, we might give thought to creating a tracking/checking of ammunition. If ammo was "banked" and gun owners had to withdraw ammo as desired, it would afford a way to red flag individuals who are stockpiling. Mass shootings require more than one round of ammo.
3
All the gun legislation in the world can not stop the guy who "loses it". Implied in current gun ownership law is the subconscious idea that one can solve your "problems" with said gun, and there doesn't seem to be a way to put the cow back in the barn on this one. Is the NRA actually right on this issue, and only a sense of security at least can be achieved by everyone arming themselves? I hope not.
1
No, this has never happened before in this country on such a scale, and it does not happen in other countries which also have mentally disturbed individuals. The ALEC lobbyists, the NRA gun manufacturers' lobby, and others have totally distorted gun ownership issues.
90% of all American citizens want universal background checks, and they want loopholes closed including those that have permitted 2000 terrorist suspects obtain guns across the past 10 years. This would include domestic terrorists, I suspect.
90% of all American citizens want universal background checks, and they want loopholes closed including those that have permitted 2000 terrorist suspects obtain guns across the past 10 years. This would include domestic terrorists, I suspect.
7
No. The NRA is wrong. Dead wrong.
3
Don't be too quick to dismiss the very distinct possibility that Dear's motivation was anti-choice in nature. He may have been a loner, but in today's world of technology and instant communication a loner isn't exactly entirely cut off anymore, as his seeking sex partners on-line illustrates. And those anti-Obama pamphlets came from somewhere!
One poster referred to him as "Everyman." I agree. This guy might be less social and live in non-middle class dwellings without running water or electricity, but otherwise he IS pretty much like Everyman. I am offended by the press always playing up the lone wolf/mentally ill shooter. This mass murder phenomena has become mainstream! These people are all around us! To be sure, not all of them act on their beliefs. One only has to peruse the various media venues to find a whole lot of people advocating violence against others. Even the GOP front runner displays discriminatory and violent ideas and speech. Some Fox News consultants and contracted personalities promote hate and violence. This kind of attitude and behavior IS mainstream today!
The leaders of the anti-choice movement never speak out strongly enough when violence/destruction is perpetrated for their cause! Why should they? It all works to their benefit. I bet that over the past 4 decades their movement has spawned a significant number of the total number domestic terrorists! They bomb, burn, shoot, and stalk clinics & staff. When will we act to stop this?
One poster referred to him as "Everyman." I agree. This guy might be less social and live in non-middle class dwellings without running water or electricity, but otherwise he IS pretty much like Everyman. I am offended by the press always playing up the lone wolf/mentally ill shooter. This mass murder phenomena has become mainstream! These people are all around us! To be sure, not all of them act on their beliefs. One only has to peruse the various media venues to find a whole lot of people advocating violence against others. Even the GOP front runner displays discriminatory and violent ideas and speech. Some Fox News consultants and contracted personalities promote hate and violence. This kind of attitude and behavior IS mainstream today!
The leaders of the anti-choice movement never speak out strongly enough when violence/destruction is perpetrated for their cause! Why should they? It all works to their benefit. I bet that over the past 4 decades their movement has spawned a significant number of the total number domestic terrorists! They bomb, burn, shoot, and stalk clinics & staff. When will we act to stop this?
19
V. in Bklyn, NY
Y'know you're right and I hadn't even thought of that! The view the media has taken with this is counterproductive, at best. And as you and others have said, with deepest regret for all of us, President Obama, is wrong.
This is the new--or not so new--normal. And, speaking only for myself, I've yet to hear a torrent of super strong condemnation from the force-birth crowd at all abut this.
BTW, I arrived too late yesterday, to participate in a demonstration in Union Square, New York, NY. But I still can and will donate a tad more (all I can afford) to Planned Parenthood today.
Submitted 11/29/15@11:02 a.m. e.s.t.
Y'know you're right and I hadn't even thought of that! The view the media has taken with this is counterproductive, at best. And as you and others have said, with deepest regret for all of us, President Obama, is wrong.
This is the new--or not so new--normal. And, speaking only for myself, I've yet to hear a torrent of super strong condemnation from the force-birth crowd at all abut this.
BTW, I arrived too late yesterday, to participate in a demonstration in Union Square, New York, NY. But I still can and will donate a tad more (all I can afford) to Planned Parenthood today.
Submitted 11/29/15@11:02 a.m. e.s.t.
Why does anyone think that any commodity can be prohibited by the government and not be available? War on drugs? How hard has it been for those who do not care about obeying the law to obtain those? Our government cant even control millions of people from entering our country without obeying our law.
1
So we have another opportunity to deal with an episode involving gun violence and perhaps strongly held beliefs, mental decompensation, and other factors. What will we do this time around? I hope something different from usual, because the repetition of a pattern suggests that we haven't yet learned something we need to learn and developed a response that we need to develop. Maybe it's changing gun laws, maybe it's changing our social relations with people who are struggling, I don't know -- I would speculate that it's a bunch of things. But one fundamental change that I wish we would make is not to see things in terms of us vs them, even when someone commits these kinds of acts. I just don't think the solution is ever going to lie in that direction. Doesn't mean we accept such behavior from these members of us, but it would mean accepting that those who engage in these behaviors are part of the same group we are part of. The more such incidents harden us into different camps, the harder improvement and movement in a positive direction become, I think. I hope we figure out a more helpful response than we have come up with before, I hope we learn whatever it is has been missing from our understanding of previous such episodes.
26
Thank you. Wise words.
During World War II, our society pulled together over the war effort, everyone doing their part to achieve a common goal. Something similar is needed now regarding how we view and accept violence in our culture. We must stop waiting for gun control, and work on the other side of the equation.
Schools, community organizations, the media, and leaders within many groups need to adopt and promote a new American attitude about violence. We’ve experienced other successful examples of this. The anti-smoking campaigns that began in the 60s and 70s effectively changed public perception of smoking.
Imagine messaging throughout our neighborhoods, in the language and voice of the residents, suggesting that “pulling the trigger is easy, but a true man will do the harder thing . . . . talk, negotiate, walk away.”
Imagine when something truly horrific happens, the media cover instead the heroism of bystanders and police, and barely mention the perpetrator.
Imagine everyone working together to create an atmosphere of calm.
Schools, community organizations, the media, and leaders within many groups need to adopt and promote a new American attitude about violence. We’ve experienced other successful examples of this. The anti-smoking campaigns that began in the 60s and 70s effectively changed public perception of smoking.
Imagine messaging throughout our neighborhoods, in the language and voice of the residents, suggesting that “pulling the trigger is easy, but a true man will do the harder thing . . . . talk, negotiate, walk away.”
Imagine when something truly horrific happens, the media cover instead the heroism of bystanders and police, and barely mention the perpetrator.
Imagine everyone working together to create an atmosphere of calm.
5
Terrorists in the United States strike every month or so. They kill children and adults. We are so used to it that we don't recognize what it is. We lament over terrorists in foreign countries. But here in the US we don't make the connection. Will it take another Oklahoma City before we realize the danger in our own country? I hope not.
9
I live in the area in NC where he resided. I can tell you this: from my intimate knowledge of the so-called mountain people, the level of hate, of violent language, is all there. I live in the atmosphere. I hear it almost every day. And, note, there are many churches here. They are in step with what this guy did, not such that they would be quoted publicly, but privately agreeing with his evil and horrible crime.
35
"Deliverance" country, eh?
3
The irony of someone espousing pro life killing a human being. Can anyone recall the last time an advocate of pro choice killed someone who advocated pro life?
37
The group that videoed (and heavily edited) the PP interview and Carly Fiorino (for talking non-stop about "harvesting baby parts" when she knew that wasn't reality) have blood on their hands. Period. Frankly, they are probably overjoyed that PP customers were murdered (even though they were probably innocently getting exams, which is all I've ever had done there), but I hope AT LEAST the police officer shakes them up a bit. Pro-life? Not at all. Disgusting.
68
1. He apparently did not have access to TV.
2. He apparently could not form complete coherent sentences.
3. There is still no official evidence he had any political agenda.
4. Some locals were quoted as saying he tried to to rob a local business in the same shopping center first.
5. It is curious he he even new where Colorado Springs was located.
6. The clinics should have armed guards in any case.
7. Eventually the gun will be traced and the full story of this lunatic will surface.
8. Until then, I think it is pretty so far, there is no right wing Christian organization, Rebublican or otherwise, that sent this nut head.
9. We all owe a debt of gratitude to the fine law enforcement officers in C. Springs. Many, including the one who was killed, are Church going Christians.
2. He apparently could not form complete coherent sentences.
3. There is still no official evidence he had any political agenda.
4. Some locals were quoted as saying he tried to to rob a local business in the same shopping center first.
5. It is curious he he even new where Colorado Springs was located.
6. The clinics should have armed guards in any case.
7. Eventually the gun will be traced and the full story of this lunatic will surface.
8. Until then, I think it is pretty so far, there is no right wing Christian organization, Rebublican or otherwise, that sent this nut head.
9. We all owe a debt of gratitude to the fine law enforcement officers in C. Springs. Many, including the one who was killed, are Church going Christians.
4
I agree one hundred per cent! I would also add the members of congress that promoted that video also have blood on their hands!!
It is overwhelming the case however that those who refer routinely to abortion as murder are self-described christians. It is therefore, mainly christian rhetoric which produces these terrorist events here.
1
It is not ironic at all that the US has been the initiator of major wars in the Middle East, ramping up military at the expense of public services or public benefit. Murder, torture, repression of women on a massive scale ever since theVietnam war...how on earth do we not internalize the violence that our government inflicts on the world and not terrorize ourselves here at home ? It makes perfect sense that we're blowing each other's brains out each and every day.
18
Neither the media nor the general public will now fret anxiously about alienated, isolated, ultra-conservative, Christian, anti-Obama, misogynistic, white American males and the "grave threat" they pose to our "way of life" - even though there is a fairly obvious pattern of similarities between so many mass shooters.
Yet poll-leading candidates from one of the two major political parties are speaking - to enthusiastic applause - about tracking all Muslims in the US and "shutting down" mosques that meet some as-yet-undefined criteria of "radicalism." Others are saying that even an orphaned toddler won't be permitted entry.
Why are our priorities so confused, and our fears so disproportionate? Why can we not see that while both remain a very small risk, it's the mass shootings that have been a repeated feature of American daily life, not an act of terrorism from someone perverting Islam?
Our collective blindness in this does not serve us well, nor does it "keep us safe."
Yet poll-leading candidates from one of the two major political parties are speaking - to enthusiastic applause - about tracking all Muslims in the US and "shutting down" mosques that meet some as-yet-undefined criteria of "radicalism." Others are saying that even an orphaned toddler won't be permitted entry.
Why are our priorities so confused, and our fears so disproportionate? Why can we not see that while both remain a very small risk, it's the mass shootings that have been a repeated feature of American daily life, not an act of terrorism from someone perverting Islam?
Our collective blindness in this does not serve us well, nor does it "keep us safe."
85
Trump has called for shutting down organizations that incite terrorist violence. Given Carly Fiorina's inflammatory inaccuracies while discussing the planned parenthood spy videos, does that mean that Trump will be proposing that we shut down her and the others who use falsehoods to incite right wing extremism?
2
The photos of his dwellings in Colorado and North Carolina tell a story themselves. There is just as much anti-government, anti-social religious fundamentalism in the American West as in the hollers of Appalachia. Maybe more.
29
He was an outlier in Colorado. Most of the anti-government folks here are pot smoking occupy types.
2
Another introvert (apparently full of rage and mentally ill) who initiates a horrible act. He won't have to worry about his preference for the solitary life.
8
"Another introvert (apparently full of rage and mentally ill) who initiates a horrible act. He won't have to worry about his preference for the solitary life."
Don't worry Janis, I'm sure most introverts will be happy to steer completely clear of you.
Don't worry Janis, I'm sure most introverts will be happy to steer completely clear of you.
2
"Another introvert ..."
*Sigh* Not again. Here's another person confusing misanthropy with introversion. Please, for the millionth time, introverts don't hate people. Introverts simply get their energy from a different kind of social interaction than extroverts. Please stop that nonsensical talk.
*Sigh* Not again. Here's another person confusing misanthropy with introversion. Please, for the millionth time, introverts don't hate people. Introverts simply get their energy from a different kind of social interaction than extroverts. Please stop that nonsensical talk.
2
He was a pretty heavy doper for a number of years. When he got to Colorado he registered to vote as a Democrat and a woman, so he must have been quite addled. The pot they have nowadays can do considerable damage to the brain.
13
No doubt the pot can cause paranoia and some changes in the brain, but there are a lot of people who self medicate with pot to get relief from their anger and/or depression.
This is the sleazy excuse that Fiorina and the other GOP enablers will hide behind. They know that they have blood on their hands. Their hateful, provocative and dangerous rhetoric must cease immediately! If not then they all should be held accountable for these 3 deaths and, sadly, more to come.
4
Religion is far more damaging to people's capacity to think than cannabis.
1
In 2014, there were around 12,500 deaths from firearms with 51,000 "incidents." That same year there were more than 318 MILLION U.S. citizens. Out of over 318 million people, we have 51,000 gun "incidents" resulting in around 12500 fatalities. I don't know if people realize how staggering a population of 318 million is, but I would think any reasonable person - with an estimated 270 million guns in private ownership in the U.S. - would think that our track record on gun violence is pretty good.
And of course, there are very few statistics on all the lives saved by the use of guns as a deterrent, but my guess is it well defeats the most convincing of gun control arguments, albeit there aren't any that aren't based on emotionalism and/or a political agenda to usurp individual freedom.
And of course, there are very few statistics on all the lives saved by the use of guns as a deterrent, but my guess is it well defeats the most convincing of gun control arguments, albeit there aren't any that aren't based on emotionalism and/or a political agenda to usurp individual freedom.
2
"...albeit there aren't any that aren't based on emotionalism and/or a political agenda to usurp individual freedom."
The irony is staggering.
The irony is staggering.
7
Impressive example of defining deviancy down! Thousands of people killed by one means, and hey!--it's okay!--there are plenty of us left standing!
The point is that in civilized countries with tight gun regulation, THIS DOESN'T HAPPEN. Here's our American exceptionalism, my dear: We have by far the greatest body count, and all our current government does is bellow about the Second Amendment.
The notion that good people with guns have saved far more lives than are lost has been thoroughly debunked. It was based on a 1995 survey in which about 200 people reported having saved a life/lives with a gun. There was no attempt to verify their claims with law enforcement data. Instead, the results were scaled up to reflect the population to come up with the absurd claim that up to 2.5 million lives are saved by guns EACH YEAR. If that were true, you can bet the NRA would slam-dunk the fact at every opportunity. Instead, the best it can do is cough up one self-defense story for each edition of its magazine.
The point is that in civilized countries with tight gun regulation, THIS DOESN'T HAPPEN. Here's our American exceptionalism, my dear: We have by far the greatest body count, and all our current government does is bellow about the Second Amendment.
The notion that good people with guns have saved far more lives than are lost has been thoroughly debunked. It was based on a 1995 survey in which about 200 people reported having saved a life/lives with a gun. There was no attempt to verify their claims with law enforcement data. Instead, the results were scaled up to reflect the population to come up with the absurd claim that up to 2.5 million lives are saved by guns EACH YEAR. If that were true, you can bet the NRA would slam-dunk the fact at every opportunity. Instead, the best it can do is cough up one self-defense story for each edition of its magazine.
4
Carolyn--Our PER CAPITA rate of gun death is out of control. You can believe what you want to believe...doesn't make it correct.
2
Just another unbalanced white guy with a gun. This one is a little older than the others. Perhaps he fits the profile of the rural older white male who commits suicide by drugs or drink or in this case suicide by police.
The lunacy is his own. But the irresponsible rhetoric of some right wing politicians gave him the target. And, of course, the NRA assured that he would have the means.
The lunacy is his own. But the irresponsible rhetoric of some right wing politicians gave him the target. And, of course, the NRA assured that he would have the means.
50
"Just another unbalanced white guy with a gun".
Why is it OK to solely profile white people, while vociferously complaining about the profiling of others? That's an extreme position. We need to be concerned with ALL profiles who are easily manipulated by irresponsible rhetoric and ALL associations which encourage the use of weapons, as a means to express the latest "offense". To do otherwise, is cowardly and only makes us more vulnerable.
Why is it OK to solely profile white people, while vociferously complaining about the profiling of others? That's an extreme position. We need to be concerned with ALL profiles who are easily manipulated by irresponsible rhetoric and ALL associations which encourage the use of weapons, as a means to express the latest "offense". To do otherwise, is cowardly and only makes us more vulnerable.
1
Strange that no one is talking about states closing their borders to people from South Carolina, North Carolina or Colorado. Or maybe they should just be closed to white males from South Carolina, North Carolina or Colorado.
69
Um the last time we talked about closing borders between states we had a civil war. Is that what you're suggesting?
The fact that there is so little that we as a country can do about our homegrown mentally ill/disenfranchised/"terrorists", etc. only highlights that we should not increase our problems by importing foreign problems.
We are already a fragmented society, where so many of us don't identify with each other, despite our Judeo-Christian commonality. Why do you want to add even more differences to that mix? Do you think poor Muslims from Syria are really going to bring us all together and establish religious and racial harmony?
The fact that there is so little that we as a country can do about our homegrown mentally ill/disenfranchised/"terrorists", etc. only highlights that we should not increase our problems by importing foreign problems.
We are already a fragmented society, where so many of us don't identify with each other, despite our Judeo-Christian commonality. Why do you want to add even more differences to that mix? Do you think poor Muslims from Syria are really going to bring us all together and establish religious and racial harmony?
He yammers about baby parts, he has handed out anti-Obama pamphlets, but still the narrative revolves around the "confused, lonely" theme.
Many of the jihadist attackers have had alienated backgrounds, often having been petty criminals (Richard Reid the "shoe bomber" for example). That makes them no less the dangerous terrorist. Those who are unhinged somehow, are the easiest to radicalize and recruit.
Do they have to shout out Allahu Akbar to be acknowledged for what they are??
Many of the jihadist attackers have had alienated backgrounds, often having been petty criminals (Richard Reid the "shoe bomber" for example). That makes them no less the dangerous terrorist. Those who are unhinged somehow, are the easiest to radicalize and recruit.
Do they have to shout out Allahu Akbar to be acknowledged for what they are??
83
To virulent anti-choice activists (I don't mean all right-to-lifers, just the rabid, militant ones!), this is just collateral damage. I guarantee, they are more upset that none of the PP staff or patients were killed. This is similar to the belief that abortion should not be an option even if the life of the mother is at stake...looking at you Prez-in-waiting Rubio...(some would say because the fetus might be a male).
46
Is it relevant that Colorado Springs is ground zero for evangelical and fundamentalist Christianity? --precisely the folks most extreme in their views about abortion and use of aborted fetal tissue.
Might a true believer like Mr Dear have become radicalized in such an environment?
Might a true believer like Mr Dear have become radicalized in such an environment?
31
No clearly not, because Mr Dear didn't live in Colorado Springs. That's pretty obvious from all the articles.
There is an existing federal regulation prohibiting someone with certain restraining orders from possessing firearms. see https://www.atf.gov/file/58781/download
Mr. Dear, it would appear from the article, came close to qualifying but not meeting this particular regulation. Just a little tweaking of this regulation may be needed. But someone acting as this guy is described is not going to let a pesky regulation stop him.
Mr. Dear, it would appear from the article, came close to qualifying but not meeting this particular regulation. Just a little tweaking of this regulation may be needed. But someone acting as this guy is described is not going to let a pesky regulation stop him.
3
At what point do we, as a society, reject the current distorted, anachronistic interpretation of the 2nd amendment?
The sole purpose of the 2nd amendment was to provide state governments the means to field armed militia in the event the nascent US federal government wouldn't be able to field an army. Prior to 1789, when the Constitution was adopted, the US central government, under the Articles of Confederation, had clearly been unable to do so.
It's not 1789 anymore, and the US federal government can obviously field a large and highly capable military. It's time to either a) appropriately interpret the 2nd amendment for the modern age, in the context of its original intent, or b) repeal the 2nd amendment.
The sole purpose of the 2nd amendment was to provide state governments the means to field armed militia in the event the nascent US federal government wouldn't be able to field an army. Prior to 1789, when the Constitution was adopted, the US central government, under the Articles of Confederation, had clearly been unable to do so.
It's not 1789 anymore, and the US federal government can obviously field a large and highly capable military. It's time to either a) appropriately interpret the 2nd amendment for the modern age, in the context of its original intent, or b) repeal the 2nd amendment.
61
It may be possible to pass new amendment that clarifies/replaces the second amendment. It would take a nationwide campaign.
There is at the moment a growing campaign to pass an amendment clarifying for the supreme court that Corporations are Not Persons and Money is Not Speech.
Person I believe the latter is far more important at this time, because it would slow down the global corporate revolution that threatens to enslave us all. I would call much gun violence a symptom and the corporate take over a cause o many of our problems.
But for those of you that feel strongly about gun control, that is the kind of thing you would have to accomplish in order to have even common sense background checks, etc.
There is at the moment a growing campaign to pass an amendment clarifying for the supreme court that Corporations are Not Persons and Money is Not Speech.
Person I believe the latter is far more important at this time, because it would slow down the global corporate revolution that threatens to enslave us all. I would call much gun violence a symptom and the corporate take over a cause o many of our problems.
But for those of you that feel strongly about gun control, that is the kind of thing you would have to accomplish in order to have even common sense background checks, etc.
The very people who misrepresent the Second Amendment are also often those who cherry-pick passages from the Bible to justify their hatred, xenophobia, homophobia, equal-rights-for-anyone-phobia. I am reminded of an interview done by Bob Woodward (Watergate reporter) with GWB when we were invading Iraq. Woodward asked GWB if he consulted with GHB, his father, about the decision. GWB replied he consulted with his higher "Father". The immediate thought that grabbed me was how does that make him different from those who attacked the World Trade Center? Both thought they were guided by their religion. So when we fear the effects of our ridiculous gun ownership in America...let us also remember that our religious zeal is also a factor - despite the fact that the people who are among the first to scream "Constitutional Rights", are also the ones who have turned the UNITED States of America into a land of erratic tribes. Just watch the slate of GOP candidates that represent the same kind of mentality that failed Iraq in its desperate attempts at democracy. I fear we are doomed...the irrational kill, and the rational forget to vote.
1
We all knew this was going to happen. The GOP set the stage for it, with their kangaroo court based on a phony video and their faux outrage. Couple that with them being in bed with the IRA? Ergo! what do you get - a RW nut job thinking he's doing Gods work. Want to fix the problem? vote them OUT! Get some sane people in congress that will actually DO something other than repeal the ACA over and over again
Jerry NYC
Jerry NYC
88
This is why the commandment says "Thou shalt not bear false witness against your neighbor." rather than "Thou shalt not lie."
It is telling lies about others to get them in trouble or persuade others to hate them that is the sin. As we all know, lying per se is not always a bad thing and can sometimes be a good thing. It's the falsehoods intended to spread hatred or harm others that the commandment specifically forbids, and with good reason.
I'm talking to you, misnamed "Center for Medical Progress" and Fox News.
It is telling lies about others to get them in trouble or persuade others to hate them that is the sin. As we all know, lying per se is not always a bad thing and can sometimes be a good thing. It's the falsehoods intended to spread hatred or harm others that the commandment specifically forbids, and with good reason.
I'm talking to you, misnamed "Center for Medical Progress" and Fox News.
49
Don't forget Carla Fiorina, who has continued to cite the video as fact even after it was shown to be a lie..
4
Perhaps one could argue that the GOP candidates are violating the first amendment, lying (e.g.the theater is on fire) in order to incite violent behavior?
2
Scared, paranoid and armed, thanks Fox News and the NRA.
Chickens are roosting, they're just not going home to do it.
Currently waiting for Ms Fiorina to apologize to the families for inciting this action. Is there a difference between standing at a podium and lying to create turmoil for poltical gain and shouting fire in a theatre? Yes, the people in the theatre don't end up bullet ridden.
Chickens are roosting, they're just not going home to do it.
Currently waiting for Ms Fiorina to apologize to the families for inciting this action. Is there a difference between standing at a podium and lying to create turmoil for poltical gain and shouting fire in a theatre? Yes, the people in the theatre don't end up bullet ridden.
104
That video that lied about Planned Parenthood influenced this deluded man. Let's hold them, the makers of the deceitful video and those who used it for political gain (Carly Fiorina, for example), responsible for what they are feeding.
88
I don't know what is harder to understand, why this man did this terrible thing, or why most Americans don't vote. Neither makes sense to me.
My heart goes out to the victims, their friends and family. This was a tragedy and I hope we can learn from it to reduce future acts of violence.
My heart goes out to the victims, their friends and family. This was a tragedy and I hope we can learn from it to reduce future acts of violence.
20
This is not about "the baby parts" or abortion or the 2nd amendment, it's about a violent form of mental illness choosing a focus and mentally ill people getting their hands on guns.
9
Freewheeling gun culture and legalized pot, great way to attract nut-jobs from all over the country. This is Colorado's problem, let them deal with it.
5
Not sure the guns and pot are related.
4
It wasn't the pot that caused this. It was a combination of religious zealotry and pernicious lies about Planned Parenthood in a country where assault weapons are consider to be the same as a hunting rifle.
3
Fact, most schizophrenics are absolutely addicted to nicotine. Do you want to ban tobacco? Mentally ill people always self medicate, usually they are not violent. It's people who manipulate them towards violence, usually people involved in religion.
1
There are so many issues I have with this character development coming out of Colorado on this man named Robert via law enforcement. I wonder how CSPOA and the Oath Keepers feel now. I can tell by the way they are trying to apologize for his actions so as not to bring any blame on the 2A. Well for those places who embrace Open/Carry & Stand Your Ground this is what you get, we get. When you have a man who is dressed like a Mountain Man banging around with a long gun because it's legal this is what happens. You don't think this is a National Security Risk? I do. And for the GOP and the Democrats who are spending time to get re-elected who can't even sign a letter asking for CDC funding for gun violence and how it's decimating our population and how and why and what we can do, shame on ALL of you. And GOP shut up about Planned Parenthood, as men you reaped well from the science that came/comes from stem cell research. I am sure your prostates thanks you.
26
Another proud member of the NRA and constituent of the Republican Party
34
Attorney General Loretta Lynch properly termed this killing a "crime against women". If it were not for the security door and a safe room at the clinic, this would have been a much larger massacre. Current right wing politicians have spread the poisonous idea that women's low income health clinics are unnecessary. Republicans in Congress and in state houses are systematically trying to eliminate all Planned Parenthood facilities in the country. Only 3% provide any abortions, and the Hyde Amendment has meant that virtually no federal money pays for abortions.
There will be a much larger, much quieter massacre as a consequence of these policies. It is basically a Dark Ages mentality that says women do not need health care, that they do not need gynecologists, that all they need are midwives. Kasich in Ohio has signed anti-abortion legislature that denies abortions to all women and girls in all situations, no matter what their medical circumstances or what their victim circumstances of rape or incest. He signed a law in 2013 that prohibited public hospitals from signing transfer agreements with abortion clinics, no matter if the woman would die or the fetus was already compromised. In Ohio as in Louisiana, the list of so-called alternative providers to the closed Planned Parenthood facilities for gynecological and obstetric care for women include dental clinics, a food bank, school nurses, etc.
Republicans regard women's health and lives as a joke. And a target.
There will be a much larger, much quieter massacre as a consequence of these policies. It is basically a Dark Ages mentality that says women do not need health care, that they do not need gynecologists, that all they need are midwives. Kasich in Ohio has signed anti-abortion legislature that denies abortions to all women and girls in all situations, no matter what their medical circumstances or what their victim circumstances of rape or incest. He signed a law in 2013 that prohibited public hospitals from signing transfer agreements with abortion clinics, no matter if the woman would die or the fetus was already compromised. In Ohio as in Louisiana, the list of so-called alternative providers to the closed Planned Parenthood facilities for gynecological and obstetric care for women include dental clinics, a food bank, school nurses, etc.
Republicans regard women's health and lives as a joke. And a target.
92
I agree with everything you said except for one thing. Midwives are awesome. When your giving birth they actually stay in the room with you instead of popping in at the last second to catch the baby. They actually listen to the patient and care about their thoughts and feelings. And they have very good medical training. Planned parent hood should be hiring them,
2
One more vote for Carly. Good thing that SHE had seen the fetal body parts video, else Mr. Dear might never have been made aware of the threat...
36
Once again, mentally ill person rages agains humanity. Crontrol the insane. don't politicize mass shooters.
4
People who shot innocents because they don't believe what they believe and then blow themselves up are insane? No, they're terrorists.
25
I would say they are both insane and terrorists. And criminals.
But I would not call them warriors, what is what they become when you call it a "war on terror."
But I would not call them warriors, what is what they become when you call it a "war on terror."
1
Why isn't the FBI trying to entrap the clowns being brainwashed in plain sight by cable news and broadcast radio rather than focusing on the very few clowns hoping to be brainwashed by youtube and reddit?
7
Home grown Jihadist. Oh, but in America it's ok for him to arm himself to the teeth with guns.
63
Inciting to violence, provoking and encouraging violence, hate-talk, lies -- all of these are the acts of our Republican presidential candidates. It cannot be that the party representing almost 50% of our population just happens to be running hate-mongers for President. That is not what is happening; they are the true representatives of much of our sadly intellecutally and educationally deficient population.
.Almost 50% of our population does indeed support hate, war, violence, aggression, repression and subjugation of women, and lying and murdering to make a political/religious point. This is violence and hatred deliberately promoted and encouraged by the Republican woman hating party. They belong on trial for inciting to riot and inciting to violence.
.Almost 50% of our population does indeed support hate, war, violence, aggression, repression and subjugation of women, and lying and murdering to make a political/religious point. This is violence and hatred deliberately promoted and encouraged by the Republican woman hating party. They belong on trial for inciting to riot and inciting to violence.
45
Actually, the number of Republicans is inflated. They are about 25% of the electorate. Their influence and presence in Congress is completely out of proportion to their numbers. This is a result of their larger number of people with very deep pockets and their control of the airwaves, not to mention gerrymandering.
The Koch brothers and their friends support all of this. The open carry and Stand Your Ground laws originate in the ALEC, which is funded by the Kochs and their fellow travelers. They are to mass murder in this country what Saudi Arabia is to ISIL. Likewise, they are considered our "good friends".
Vote like your life depends on it because it does.
The Koch brothers and their friends support all of this. The open carry and Stand Your Ground laws originate in the ALEC, which is funded by the Kochs and their fellow travelers. They are to mass murder in this country what Saudi Arabia is to ISIL. Likewise, they are considered our "good friends".
Vote like your life depends on it because it does.
It's too bad that Lorreta Lynch wasn't the AG earlier. Her actions and especially
her words make since and are appropriate. She showed compassion for those who died and recognized tragedy and those people shot. their families and the people who lived in that area as well as the rule of law. But contrast that with Obama and his statement quoted here. It has nothing to do with human grief. It was all about gun control. He could have brought that up at a later time. He could have promised to look at warning signs to give the people harmed as well as their families answers to their questions. Instead he grabs the first soap box he can find and pushes he political agenda, gun control;
her words make since and are appropriate. She showed compassion for those who died and recognized tragedy and those people shot. their families and the people who lived in that area as well as the rule of law. But contrast that with Obama and his statement quoted here. It has nothing to do with human grief. It was all about gun control. He could have brought that up at a later time. He could have promised to look at warning signs to give the people harmed as well as their families answers to their questions. Instead he grabs the first soap box he can find and pushes he political agenda, gun control;
1
Try reading ALL the news. The president expressed grief and concern several days ago When the murders happened. But that's not enough -- he and we can't just go on being sad and praying as more and more Americans are slaughtered. It is not only the president's right to speak about a solution, it is his job. He was elected to find solutions and fix problems. If you don't like his solution, fine -- but if all he did was express sorrow, he'd be excoriated for doing nothing to try to prevent more murders.
19
When politics is leading to people dying, as is the case with the NRA/GOP stranglehold on gun laws in our supposedly developed nation, then a political "agenda" couldn't be a more appropriate response.
3
He did the same thing in Oregon. After lecturing the people to not politicize the murders, he went directly into doing that with lecturing them for gun control. There was plenty of time to pursue his agenda. These were times to center on those suffering from the tragedies. Loretta lynch's statement spoke for the people, not a political agenda.
To the GOP and Carly Fiorina in particular: You OWN this.
How do you DARE to tell us that there is "No GOP war on women"?
How do you DARE to tell us that there is "No GOP war on women"?
106
America I present to you, your real terrorist threat. He comes in the form of Robert Dear and the many thousand of unhinged gun owners roaming around America.
45
Comments by people like Carly Fiorina may very well have tipped this disturbed mind over the edge. Candidates in a public forum need to choose their words thoughtfully and be aware how easily these disturbed minds can get guns.
56
Republicans: you have these victims' blood on your hands. (especially you,Carly!)
64
Will Fox and CNN now demand that all Christians publicly denounce anti-abortion violence?
71
Does the New York Times and other media outlets consider that stories like this about mass murderers give them the notoriety that they seek so the next one is encouraged. Forget the motive..it is an excuse to put misery in action.
5
Certainly. it would be easier for the GOPTP if these stories were not published. It tends to encourage the pro-birthers
2
Another loner, who apparently has mental health issues, takes the lives of several innocent people.
Since we have seen this scenario with a stunning regularity I have thoughts.
First, rhetoric matters. Why is the national media not strongly condemning the words of candidates for the highest office in the land about Planned Parenthood? This very paper is eviscerating Donald Trump, rightly so, for his terrible mocking of a reporter with a disability. There should be a calling to the carpet for those candidates who are reckless with the facts.
Second, the President is right. Are we really going to accept this as the new normal? We accept gun violence in inner cities because who cares if black and brown people ruin each other. But are we really so in love with guns that we are ok with this?
There needs to be a long term examination of the proliferation of guns in this country.
Anything else is unacceptable and obviously deadly.
Since we have seen this scenario with a stunning regularity I have thoughts.
First, rhetoric matters. Why is the national media not strongly condemning the words of candidates for the highest office in the land about Planned Parenthood? This very paper is eviscerating Donald Trump, rightly so, for his terrible mocking of a reporter with a disability. There should be a calling to the carpet for those candidates who are reckless with the facts.
Second, the President is right. Are we really going to accept this as the new normal? We accept gun violence in inner cities because who cares if black and brown people ruin each other. But are we really so in love with guns that we are ok with this?
There needs to be a long term examination of the proliferation of guns in this country.
Anything else is unacceptable and obviously deadly.
18
Most "loners" are peaceful people who would never hurt anyone. It is wrong to conflate loners with mass murderers. Look at Chales Manson or Jim Jones of the Jonestown Massacre. Both highly "social" individuals. Then look at Henry David Thoreau who chose to live alone at Walden Pond. You have nothing to fear from most people who are extremely introverted. The fact that someone chooses to live alone does not make them a potential murderer.
1
A tremendous hole in the Republican argument against gun control is that they seem to assume that no one who was legally sane when they purchased their guns ever develops mental illness. The same can be said at their attacks on Universal Health Care which seems to suggest that Republicans never get sick with serious illnesses, or that their children may be born with devastating congenital illness and defects requiring fortunes for treatment. But, what the heck: the 2nd amendment is "sacred". it trumps life itself. To spite the Black Man in the White House, some prefer to cut of their own noses when it comes to anything that would promote and protect the health of all citizens, especially our growing children and young adults. Many who are "pro Life" hate the living...the abortion issue is secondary.
37
Apparently, Mr. Dear had no more or less attachment to religion or terrorist organizations than so-called "domestic lone-wolf Muslim terrorists" that have sought to kill people in the US over the last several years --he actually seems a pretty analogous counterpart.
8
A lot of Americans who are short of money would rather live in a trailer with a view and a yard than live in urban poverty. That doesn't make them insane. And there are a lot of rattle snakes in those terrains and a lot of people do keep a firearm for perceived self protection.
Now that there are so many guns in possession of the American public, even if all sales of all new guns to anyone not in law enforcement were totally prohibited
it probably wouldn't make a difference. There is a lot of ammo stocked across the country too. They could crack down on gun owners with expired carry permits who carry anyway but how would authorities know they were carrying without a license unless there was a shooting?
I'd hate to see a thought police watching us for signs of insanity.
Now that there are so many guns in possession of the American public, even if all sales of all new guns to anyone not in law enforcement were totally prohibited
it probably wouldn't make a difference. There is a lot of ammo stocked across the country too. They could crack down on gun owners with expired carry permits who carry anyway but how would authorities know they were carrying without a license unless there was a shooting?
I'd hate to see a thought police watching us for signs of insanity.
1
As frighteningly ironic as the last sentence is, that neatly illuminates why the NRA fights any and all attempts to try sensible ways to regulate firepower.
1
No worries. The media only paint Mr. Dear as insane because he's white and American. If he were black he'd be criminal, Muslim and he'd be a terrorist. I vote for terrorist myself, as I think it's a given that anyone who goes around killing people is insane by definition.
1
" There are too many guns, so banning them or collecting them won't help". Isis already has too much territory so we might as well leave them alone. Everybody speeds so we might as well end speed limits. Your blood pressure is already too high so we might as well not treat it. The earth is already getting warmer so we might as well give up on carbon emissions.
We are completely defeated by the gun problem. I don't understand why.
We are completely defeated by the gun problem. I don't understand why.
297
"We are completely defeated by the gun problem. i don't understand why."
The simplest answer, and I don't like it, but I believe it is true, is because we have accepted that a certain number of people randomly killed every month or so, is a reasonable price to pay for a vibrant gun industry.
The simplest answer, and I don't like it, but I believe it is true, is because we have accepted that a certain number of people randomly killed every month or so, is a reasonable price to pay for a vibrant gun industry.
2
Well, we aren't really defeated since there is no gyn problem. There is a mental illness problem and an inability to address it. I don't understand why. Just easier to vilify guns than the mentally ill, I guess.
There is no gun problem. What we have is a societal problem brought about by generations of left wing nihilism.
I'm sorry, what am I missing here, New York Times? He barricades himself in a Planned Parenthood clinic, shoots up the place, kills people, and in a statement says "No more baby parts." But his "motive remains unclear"?
After this, after the mass murder in that black church in South Carolina several months ago (which we have, apparently, already forgotten), how many acts of murder do we allow before we start calling the conservative movement and the politicians and right-wing media that enables these people, terrorists?
After this, after the mass murder in that black church in South Carolina several months ago (which we have, apparently, already forgotten), how many acts of murder do we allow before we start calling the conservative movement and the politicians and right-wing media that enables these people, terrorists?
71
Exactly! If they admitted his self proclaimed motive they would have to focus on the relgious and political leaders who gave it to him.. No one wants to speak truth to that kind of power...RC Bishops we're talking to YOU. For Christ's sake, come out strongly against violence in the name of God.
Many commenters are labeling the Planned Parenthood gunman as a “Christian terrorist” as opposed to an “Islamic terrorist.” While the terrorist label appears accurate, there is no evidence that Robert Dear was motivated by religious convictions. (His ex-wife says he wasn’t a churchgoer.) The debate over abortion in America isn’t a disagreement between Christians and non-Christians. Most abortion providers in America are Christians. The slain Colorado Springs police officer was an evangelical church pastor. The abortion issue isn’t a theological disagreement, or a disagreement between believers and non-believers. It’s a biological issue. Anti-abortionists, or Pro-Life Advocates, think unborn babies are human beings while Pro-abortionists, or Freedom of Choice advocates, think fetuses are not human beings. Americans who consider themselves nonreligious are also divided on the abortion issue. His alleged “no more baby parts” comment indicates that Robert Dear might be an “anti-abortionist terrorist,” but no evidence has emerged that justifies the “Christian terrorist” label.
1
He said he lived by the Bible, read it cover to cover.
Not the Koran or the Torah.
Sure sounds like a Christian to me.
Not the Koran or the Torah.
Sure sounds like a Christian to me.
16
Might try listening to the leaders of this probirth movement that are christian leaders and intone the word of god and jesus at every opportunity. Oh yes, christian terrorists fit very very well
1
You really take a lot of words to justify your beliefs, too bad it doesn't add up.
1
How long is Robert Dear's motive going to remain "unclear"? For as long as the true facts about Laquan McDonald's killing remained "unclear"? Or do the police actually know his motivation, but are holding back the truth to protect GOP candidates who fomented this violence?
I smell a politically-motivated cover-up here. And every day that goes by when the police continue to hold back information, the stench gets stronger. There is not even an "ongoing investigation" to use as a fig leaf. Release the facts.
I smell a politically-motivated cover-up here. And every day that goes by when the police continue to hold back information, the stench gets stronger. There is not even an "ongoing investigation" to use as a fig leaf. Release the facts.
25
Another right wing religious conspiracy theorist gun nut kills people. What a surprise.
30
As others have pointed out, Democrats were quick to condemn the murders. Republicans are in a pickle - condemn the murder of a cop and lose the rabid anti-abortion crowd, or stay silent and imply it's OK to murder cops.
So, leaders that they are, Republican candidates will likely be MIA on this important political issue.
So, leaders that they are, Republican candidates will likely be MIA on this important political issue.
48
anyone who cannot unequivocally say that women must be safe when accessing legal health care has no right to become president.
Media is still calling this murderer "suspect", "lonely" etc. He is a CHRISTIAN terrorist. He killed for his religious beliefs, didn't he??? We should be worrying about Christian terrorist who already here rather than Syrian refugees.
33
Why on Earth are you assuming "he killed for his Christian beliefs?" The investigation has just begun. Among many things, he's told the police "no more body parts", so presumably he's anti-abortion and Planned Parenthod. That isn't a Christian belief. And he hasn't said he was even motivated by his particular religious beliefs (whatever they are).
He wasn't yelling "Praise Jesus" during the siege the way Islamic terrorists shout "Allah" during their attacks.
Compare that to Islamic terrorists who repeatedly say they are fighting a war against us based on their religious beliefs (whether they correctly interpret Islam or not).
Why are people on the Left so adamant about shielding Islamists from criticism while so insistent on condemning Christians??
He wasn't yelling "Praise Jesus" during the siege the way Islamic terrorists shout "Allah" during their attacks.
Compare that to Islamic terrorists who repeatedly say they are fighting a war against us based on their religious beliefs (whether they correctly interpret Islam or not).
Why are people on the Left so adamant about shielding Islamists from criticism while so insistent on condemning Christians??
Instead of obama's legacy dreams of citizenship for illegal aliens and climate change he should stay home and actively pursue conversations and solutions to gun control with the NRA and with ALL of our politicians. The majority of Americans want registration and background checks on all gun purchases, elimination of assault weapons, more restrictions on gun shop owners,etc. WAKEUP Obama and do something.
1
Haven't the President and many Democrats in Congress been doing just that? You will find a way to blame President Obama for everything
1
Are you serious?! Where have you been hiding? Wake up, Obama??!!!
He pleaded with congress to do something about guns after the first grade babies were slaughtered, he has talked about our obsession with guns until he is exhausted. It never makes any difference. Members of congress are terrified of getting a failing grade from the NRA or of not receiving money from them. THEY are the problem, not Obama.
He pleaded with congress to do something about guns after the first grade babies were slaughtered, he has talked about our obsession with guns until he is exhausted. It never makes any difference. Members of congress are terrified of getting a failing grade from the NRA or of not receiving money from them. THEY are the problem, not Obama.
2
How DARE you say he's done nothing? Legislation has been proposed and blocked time after time after time by the GOP. NRA demonizes the president, won't even take a meeting. This president, Mike Bloomberg and others have been incredibly active but have been met with utter defiance by the 2nd amendment crowd. After Newtown, the president tried everything possible -- met with an unyielding wall of opposition. "Pursue conversations?!" Your post is obviously a red herring to shift blame from those who must be held accountable -- but saying the most activist president on gun control is to blame is ludicrous.
4
This guy just wanted to finally take his shooting up a notch and blast a real human. Fortunately for him, the Repub hate-and-fear machine provided a ready rationale.
He got to exercise his basest impulses, and fool himself into 'knowing' that it was for the noblest cause.
He got to exercise his basest impulses, and fool himself into 'knowing' that it was for the noblest cause.
12
Let me get this right: a man injures multiple police officers and civilian, kills 3 people, including a cop and the NY Times paints the rosiest portrait it can muster of the man. "Mr. Dear", the "gunman", a "loner", "could be angry at times", "an art dealer," the irrelevant summary of his father's military and corporate work, "he was religious", was a "mountain culture" guy, had "strong ties to South Carolina" and read the bible "cover to cover." I love the line about police looking for clues about what "sent" Dear on the rampage; the passive voice was necessary there because some force controlled the man and caused him to slaughter and injure all those people. I have no doubt that past coverage by the Times, other papers and television "news" shows of Dylan Roof and others who committed similar acts to used similarly softening language. Where is the deeper research and arm chair sociological discussion of the pathology in his family? No interviews with experts to discuss violence in his "community?" Where is the radicalization analysis? Light as a feather review of his past "run ins" with the law? Imagine if this guy was a Muslim; I wonder if the media coverage would be as charitable.
36
It's called white supremacy. It controls the vocabulary and the narrative. The bad actions of individual whites never stain the group. The good actions of individual whites are applied to all whites.
15
Trevor Noah has dealt with this business, but when a white guy who kills three and shoots up a shopping center does not get killed by the police, whereas it's open season on black guys, there is something seriously wrong.
25
He is a crazy loner and that is what they want you to believe. Maybe he is but something in our life style made him what he is. I think it is important to note where the shooting took place.
8
So you think it is PP fault and made him shoot to kill?
Yup...1865
These backward, gun toting confederate losers are becoming a real threat to modern evolved Americans.
Maybe the next time one of those sad backward confederate states, from the 1800s, wants to secede again we let 'em.
Heck, let the whole collection of red-welfare-states leave...they can being their own gun worshipping Caliphate for all we care.
We Americans are sick anf tired of paying their bills anyway.
These backward, gun toting confederate losers are becoming a real threat to modern evolved Americans.
Maybe the next time one of those sad backward confederate states, from the 1800s, wants to secede again we let 'em.
Heck, let the whole collection of red-welfare-states leave...they can being their own gun worshipping Caliphate for all we care.
We Americans are sick anf tired of paying their bills anyway.
2
This man and others have been radicalized by the Republican right.
39
Fox, talk radio and the GOP nominees want President Obama to start calling the terrorists in Paris, etc. 'radical Islamic terrorists'. Fair enough. Obama should start calling Dear and all the other past and future killers of minorities and abortion providers 'radical Christian terrorists' and see how they like it. They're both about as accurate in describing these men both here and abroad.
43
In these particularly tumultuous times, it's tempting to view this incident and its perpetrator through the filters of Islamic terrorism or racism against Moslems, as many commenters are doing, but the reality seems to be simply one of a troubled, lone, off-the-grid nut, not relevant to either of those issues. Let's focus on the one issue that this incident is relevant to, which is rampant gun crime in America.
70
Islamic terrorism (especially the home grown kind), and racism of all kinds are both related to your issue of "rampant gun crime".
You see, there are many motivations to kill. Not all murder is due to "crimes of passion", drugs or money.
Some kill, apparently as Robert Dear did, to get revenge on those who seek or provide abortions, as he was apparently moved to do because of the current right wing propaganda that is floating around - i.e., the doctored PP abortion tapes.
Others kill either because they hate America or because they hate those who they imagine hate America.
All these issues are related. Therefore we need to keep guns out of the hands of all kinds of people who shouldn't have them.
You see, there are many motivations to kill. Not all murder is due to "crimes of passion", drugs or money.
Some kill, apparently as Robert Dear did, to get revenge on those who seek or provide abortions, as he was apparently moved to do because of the current right wing propaganda that is floating around - i.e., the doctored PP abortion tapes.
Others kill either because they hate America or because they hate those who they imagine hate America.
All these issues are related. Therefore we need to keep guns out of the hands of all kinds of people who shouldn't have them.
3
Since when is terrorism defined as a group activity? This man is a terrorist, just like the shooters in Aurora, Sandy Hook, and on and on. Two young men in Boston, disenfranchised, angered over perceived injustice, seduced by internet terror porn, and without serious affiliation with known terrorists, decided to blow up the finish line at the Boston Marathon. They were not simply labeled as "troubled, lone .... nut(s). Terrorism IS relevant to this story.
4
... and yet, you yourself have viewed this incident through the lens of someone who would focus on the gun issue. Even though he had several other kinds of devices in the making.
Let's listen to the man's *words* shall we? Would we have dismissed someone shouting Allahu Akbar, because he has a disjointed and petty criminal background? No, but guess what - many jihadists have been of that description. Who, after all, is most susceptible to radicalization.
Information on this particular case is drip-drip-dripping out regarding some aspects (the shooter's statements, the identity of two of the dead), while coming out in a flash - yes from the official statements as well as amateur newshound's investigations: the socially marginal life of the shooter's life and (notably!) the identity and life of the police officer.
I think we can draw conclusions, as the mayor of Colorado Springs has signaled that we should. And it's not primarily about guns.
Let's listen to the man's *words* shall we? Would we have dismissed someone shouting Allahu Akbar, because he has a disjointed and petty criminal background? No, but guess what - many jihadists have been of that description. Who, after all, is most susceptible to radicalization.
Information on this particular case is drip-drip-dripping out regarding some aspects (the shooter's statements, the identity of two of the dead), while coming out in a flash - yes from the official statements as well as amateur newshound's investigations: the socially marginal life of the shooter's life and (notably!) the identity and life of the police officer.
I think we can draw conclusions, as the mayor of Colorado Springs has signaled that we should. And it's not primarily about guns.
1
Why isn't media calling this guy as "Christian" terrorist? He is, isn't he?
17
No he is not. Christians do not commit atrocities. He is a very sick and disturbed man.
According to the 2014 FBI Uniform Crime Report, firearms were used in 8,124, or 67.9 percent, of the nation’s 11,961 murders during 2014. (About 32.1 percent of murder victims are poisoned, stabbed, beaten, kicked or stomped to death.) Americans own about 300 million firearms. So about 0.02 percent of the nation’s guns are used to murder someone. (Rifles like the one used by the Colorado Springs Planned Parenthood shooter were used in 248 of the 11,961 murders.) We need to get 0.02 percent of firearms off the street.
2
Guns: Allowing coward's to kill from a distance for over 400 years.
Guns: Prosthetic penises for "men" born without.
Guns: 'Cause they're easier than books.
Guns: Prosthetic penises for "men" born without.
Guns: 'Cause they're easier than books.
19
Guns: Allowing cowards to kill from a distance for over 400 years.
9
Your statistical rationale is ridiculous, unless you meant it as parody. Because each and every one of those 248 murders by shooters with assault weapons is one too many.
6
Don't make a martyr of him. Put him away where nobody ever hears of or from him again, and he never sees daylight or hears a human voice again.
4
Not to worry, he will hear plenty of human voices, but they will be just in his head.
1
Any right thinking person is appalled at what this man did and rightly condemns it. Unlike Obama who justifies Black violence on their own neighborhoods and and upon police, even those like myself who are right-to-lifers can find no justification for this mans actions.
But the enough is enough bit has not only grown old, the President simply causes gun sales to rise. I have a family member who is in the gun manufacturing business and he tells me that every time Obama opens his mouth on the subject of restricting guns, sales rise.
People are smart enough to understand that criminals and terrorists dont buy they guns legally. They steal, smuggle, etc. Stricter guns laws would only bring us another step closer to another Paris debacle, when Frances citizens had utterly no legal means to defend themselves.
But the enough is enough bit has not only grown old, the President simply causes gun sales to rise. I have a family member who is in the gun manufacturing business and he tells me that every time Obama opens his mouth on the subject of restricting guns, sales rise.
People are smart enough to understand that criminals and terrorists dont buy they guns legally. They steal, smuggle, etc. Stricter guns laws would only bring us another step closer to another Paris debacle, when Frances citizens had utterly no legal means to defend themselves.
3
I am also a pro-life woman but deplore his actions. He certainly does not speak for us in any way. He is the antithesis of our movement.
please share a quote with us where president obama justified violence of any kind.
His gun was legally obtained, so there is that. Says alot about the typical gun guyer that their visceral hatred of the black guy in the White House makes them want to buy more.
I wonder which comes first, the politics or the desire to kill. I mean, do killers begin as relatively normal citizens who gather political information from media sources, then get so hyped up about their supposed political enemies they evolve into killers? Or are these killers crazy to begin with, with heads full of murderous designs, and they find justification to commit murder in political narratives? Either way, They're getting their ideas from the public discourse. I think politicians and pundits who use loaded language, emotional appeals, and even hate speech against their opponents (stuff that's usually three-quarters false), in order to fire up their normal partisans, need to realize how they are affecting their unstable partisans.
8
Although there are all kinds of propagandized reports, I firmly believe that concealed weapons permits as well as gun ownership reduces violent crime. Data on several studies supports this fact. http://www.catb.org/esr/guns/gunslott.html
And most importantly, since the recent surge in NRA support and overall national resistance to gun control, violent crime is DOWN. In 2011, violent crime in Florida was at an all time low, and this is when a concealed weapons permit could and still can be acquired within a week.
The shills for big government and Orwellian federal control would have people believe that the bad guys won't have guns if we deny the good guys their weapons, and that is a flat out untruth. Policemen don't materialize out of thin air when a violent person breaks into somebody's home. The only equalizer there is if the homeowner has a gun, and the same is true for a lone person on the road or a person in a mall that is suddenly targeted by a lunatic. The lunatics will always be able to get a guns, and so will the criminals. Should gun control be established, the black market will thrive with the same financial zeal as during the Prohibition.
Perhaps most importantly, there a commenters here who make their open disdain of rural America and God well known but that is nothing but blatant bigotry. It is divisive, irrational and unkind, and is certainly not a cogent or convincing argument for gun control.
And most importantly, since the recent surge in NRA support and overall national resistance to gun control, violent crime is DOWN. In 2011, violent crime in Florida was at an all time low, and this is when a concealed weapons permit could and still can be acquired within a week.
The shills for big government and Orwellian federal control would have people believe that the bad guys won't have guns if we deny the good guys their weapons, and that is a flat out untruth. Policemen don't materialize out of thin air when a violent person breaks into somebody's home. The only equalizer there is if the homeowner has a gun, and the same is true for a lone person on the road or a person in a mall that is suddenly targeted by a lunatic. The lunatics will always be able to get a guns, and so will the criminals. Should gun control be established, the black market will thrive with the same financial zeal as during the Prohibition.
Perhaps most importantly, there a commenters here who make their open disdain of rural America and God well known but that is nothing but blatant bigotry. It is divisive, irrational and unkind, and is certainly not a cogent or convincing argument for gun control.
3
Guns are lousy defensive weapons. When you find yourself face to face with a home intruder, you are not going to have time to get your gun out. Learn some martial arts. Guns are offensive weapons.
1
Robert Dear: The face of the Republican base. Bill O'Reilly tagged Dr. Tiller as "The baby killer". He was shot dead in a church by a RW radical. Carly Fiorina went on a rant filled with lies about "baby parts" and PP, and reached her target. Surprise, surprise.
49
Do not blame Bill O'Reilly for the actions of this very disturbed man. I highly doubt he ever watched his show and probably would not agree with him. Stop blaming republicans for this lone killer. Every time a tragedy occurs you use this as your weapon of defense. This is getting awfully old and tiring.
You might also consider the rifle-target crosshairs on Sarah Palin's website over the face of Gabriel Gifford before she (and several others) were shot.
1
Another angry white man. He is seething over his perceived loss of control and feels justified within his paranoid assessment of the world. I do not want to hear calls for better mental health care instead of better gun control. In over three decades of working with mentally ill persons in an acute care setting, I never saw any of them who considered using a firearm.
296
Why can't you have both? Your POV ignores the troubled histories of many, if not most of the actors who committed public shootings.
Speaking as a former mental health professional, I see enough info that Robert had serious mental health issues that were not being addressed, or at least not discovered in his history by these reporters. Reasonable gun controls are long overdue but a serious overhaul of how we address mental health issues is also overdue.
Speaking as a former mental health professional, I see enough info that Robert had serious mental health issues that were not being addressed, or at least not discovered in his history by these reporters. Reasonable gun controls are long overdue but a serious overhaul of how we address mental health issues is also overdue.
1
There may be no "vast Christian conspiracy," true, but let´s not deny that there is an extremist element among Christian fundamentalists, who feel entitled to impose their beliefs on the rest of us, even to the extent of killing those who don´t agree with them. How else do you explain "abortion bombers??"
1
There is a similarity between the Christians who assault and kill at Planned Parenthood or at the homes of its staff and the terrorists of the Middle East. Both groups seem to be upset with the departure of their societies from the old ways. Jihadists want to go back to the Muslim religion of the Middle Ages and the Christian terrorists want to go back to the days when white males ruled the world.
Murder on both sides seems to be a reaction to mass change in their societies -- especially the possibility, coming but not fully realized, of the equality of women with men. The shooters and bombers fear the loss of power over half the society, the women, among other changes. The problem isn't technology which both groups cheerfully use. It is the massive social change of women and other despised groups, blacks, Shiites, Yiszidis, Kurds and many others are now threatening to become the equals of the white males and the Sunnis. The loss of power shows up constantly in everyday life and these people are angry about it.
We can't solve their problems but we can take away as much as possible their means of killing -- guns, bombs, etc. We need gun control, mental health treatment of many kinds, but that is not enough. We are simply moving forward in a way these people cannot abide. We cannot change the way culture changes but we can attempt to make these people a little less dangerous to the rest of us.
Murder on both sides seems to be a reaction to mass change in their societies -- especially the possibility, coming but not fully realized, of the equality of women with men. The shooters and bombers fear the loss of power over half the society, the women, among other changes. The problem isn't technology which both groups cheerfully use. It is the massive social change of women and other despised groups, blacks, Shiites, Yiszidis, Kurds and many others are now threatening to become the equals of the white males and the Sunnis. The loss of power shows up constantly in everyday life and these people are angry about it.
We can't solve their problems but we can take away as much as possible their means of killing -- guns, bombs, etc. We need gun control, mental health treatment of many kinds, but that is not enough. We are simply moving forward in a way these people cannot abide. We cannot change the way culture changes but we can attempt to make these people a little less dangerous to the rest of us.
1
Why can't we just say the guy is " nuts " and leave it at that. Most likely he is not capable of having a motive for his actions.
2
@Aaron Adams: Read the headline. Read it again.
"No more baby parts" Suspect told Police.
What did you learn from this?
"No more baby parts" Suspect told Police.
What did you learn from this?
3
He's not smart and composed, like ISIS. Therefore, not a terrorist.
Or maybe his beliefs just hit a little close to home for some.
Or maybe his beliefs just hit a little close to home for some.
Meet the GOP base.
37
Let's see, a devout Christian who believed in the Bible as the word of God, who used violence to enforce what he believed that Bible said. Does that make Christianity a violent religion? Should we blame all Christians? Should we use the same big brush to paint Christianity as a violent religion, as people have tried to use to paint all of Islam? I think there is a good teaching moment here.
25
Yes.....yes to all of your comments. Christianity is historically an intolerant, hateful and violent religion, (slightly more than every other religion), and there is no escaping that fact.
9
Loads of violence in the bible; rape, murder of men, women and children, gay bashing, you name it - it's there. And there are plenty of hateful "christians" in the world, paranoid, controlling, self-righteous foaming at the mouth people who are angry at people that exercise their civil rights - namely women. There is a teaching moment here - abortion is a legal medical procedure, get over it. It's not going away so deal with it!
10
According to the article, he wasn't a regular churchgoer and was "not one to harp on religion." This doesn't make him a "devout Christian." The slain police officer, who was a pastor at an evangelical church, was a devout Christin. He gave his life to protect Planned Parenthood personnel. According to the article, Robert Dear had read the Bible, but there is mention of abortion in the Bible. His alleged comment about "baby parts" appears to indicate that he considered unborn babies, or fetuses, as human beings. This is a biological issue, not a theological issue. Do you think abortion providers and women who have abortions are non-Christians?
Call him whatever you want but this was an act of terror.
26
The terrorism label appears to apply. Acts of terrorism are acts to intended to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or to disrupt the operation of government. The shooting appears designed to intimidate abortion providers and women seeking an abortion. The difference between terrorism and murder is motivation. One is not necessarily more evil than the other. For example, John Brown was an anti-slavery terrorist, but he's a hero to many people.
1
William, is this man a hero to you?
1
The thread by angry white men to innocent people is always with us. The school killer in CT, the church killer in Charleston, the theatre killer in CO were all angry white males. So is this guy. And all presented their beliefs and anger to others but no one reported them. And these guys all were able to buy guns because of course in this country all angry white males have some convoluted "right" to carry assault rifles. When will people realize that the angry white male poses the biggest threat to civilians here in the USA?
32
Well, I suppose it could happen if the international corporations that now control our country and are the biggest threat to humanity and life on the planet are ever eliminated. On the other hand, a very small assortment of murdering lunatics might never qualify as the "biggest threat to civilians here in the USA". I imagine that might actually be heart disease, cancer, or maybe automobile accidents.
1
According to the 2014 FBI Uniform Crime Report (Table 43: Arrest), whites (including Hispanic whites) make up 77.4 percent of the population, but only 46.3 percent of those arrested for murder. Blacks make up 13.2 percent of the population but 51.3 percent of those arrested for murder.
When I see news stories about people like this, I always wonder: Where does he get his income? It's information that should be included in well-researched "background" stories like this one in the Times.
What are the odds that this government-hating goon with an expensive weapon and time on his hands is on the dole, receiving taxpayer-funded benefits of some kind?
What are the odds that this government-hating goon with an expensive weapon and time on his hands is on the dole, receiving taxpayer-funded benefits of some kind?
15
"He was an independent art dealer with a degree in public administration from a Midwestern college, she said, who struck deals with artists, mostly Southern ones, who painted Charleston, S.C., street scenes, Old South plantation tableaus, magnolias and pictures of the Citadel campus. He tended to buy the rights to paintings, commission 1,000 or so prints, then market and sell the prints and keep the proceeds."
Perhaps still living off the proceeds of the work this article says he has done over the years.
Perhaps still living off the proceeds of the work this article says he has done over the years.
You mean like all those people on welfare in W VA Mississippi Louisiana Alabama South Carolina
Missouri.
Missouri.
The article clearly stated that he worked as an art dealer.
1
He certainly didn't 'prefer to leave others alone' as he sought to go out as a 'warrior of CS' and fame in those circles of, 'christian state'!! CS Conservative TERRORISM: CS, christian, in the name of 'yahweh', state, no difference then IS, islamic state, or Daesh, in law and punishments!! Both also being conservative extremists!!!!
As he's apparently been using them conservative 'christian' meme's about pro life and who's responsible for the degridation of the country, OBAMA and liberals, according to reports out of SC he has a rap sheet there of domestic violence, this report touchs on those rap sheet charges, and cruelty to animals and neighbors in NC had reported on him about his dogs running wild and causing problems!!
USN All Shore '67-'71 GMG3 Vietnam In Country '70-'71 - Independent**
As he's apparently been using them conservative 'christian' meme's about pro life and who's responsible for the degridation of the country, OBAMA and liberals, according to reports out of SC he has a rap sheet there of domestic violence, this report touchs on those rap sheet charges, and cruelty to animals and neighbors in NC had reported on him about his dogs running wild and causing problems!!
USN All Shore '67-'71 GMG3 Vietnam In Country '70-'71 - Independent**
9
The first photo accomanying this article is of a trailer, not an RV.
2
Trailers are RVs. See www.rvia.org.
1
C'mon. There is no doubt. The significance of his phrase "no more baby parts" chilled me because he specifically is quoting things he heard on Fox. And he heard actual Congressional "leaders" puffing and blustering for agitation. See what agitation does? It agitates unstable people. It causes actual harm. Stop saying all speech is just "another opinion"!
I also wonder how this article would be written and killer described if he was black. Certain things stand out for me, like the reliance on his ex-wife to describe him as church-going and bible-reading, but not fanatical; "generally conservative but not obsessed".
Like we don't know what we're looking at. Not a Christian, but a person who can't fit in BECAUSE he's twisted, not because he "prefers to be alone". Sheesh.
I also wonder how this article would be written and killer described if he was black. Certain things stand out for me, like the reliance on his ex-wife to describe him as church-going and bible-reading, but not fanatical; "generally conservative but not obsessed".
Like we don't know what we're looking at. Not a Christian, but a person who can't fit in BECAUSE he's twisted, not because he "prefers to be alone". Sheesh.
15
The World War II vet mentioned in the article is the shooter's father, Robert Lewis Dear Sr.
This story needs a fact check. How can someone 58 have served in WWII.
9
it was his FATHER who served in WWII. read the article again.
5
The article said his father served in WWII.
2
It is clear that the article is describing Mr. Dear's father as having served in WWII.
I'm beginning to be really offended by all the accounts of this tragedy including some kind of disclaimer about the shooter's motives being "unclear" or some kind of question whether the event's proximity to a Planned Parenthood clinic was "intentional" or a coincidence. It's one thing when Fox News obfuscates simple facts in this way. It should not happen in the New York Times.
47
It's not an either-or, mental illness or gun access or right-wing ideology. The right wing culture creates a terrorism-shaped vessel to pour mental illness into. Then, easy access to guns makes it easier for people like him to do more harm if they act out. Those who spread the right-wing white Christian ideology, including the falsified propaganda videos to which he referred, should be recognized as inciting terrorism, just like we think those who spread radical Islamic militant ideology should.
32
"The right wing culture creates a terrorism-shaped vessel to pour mental illness into. "
This is a beyond offensive way to speak about mental illness. People with mental illness deserve respect and compassion. It is a heartbreaking illness which is difficult to treat, not something one "pours" into anything.
This is a beyond offensive way to speak about mental illness. People with mental illness deserve respect and compassion. It is a heartbreaking illness which is difficult to treat, not something one "pours" into anything.
It is a metaphor to describe how culture shapes the way mental illness manifests, the same way a liquid is shaped by the container it is placed in. All cultures have people living in them who have severe mental illness (and I have a great deal of compassion for these folks and think that we do a terrible job in this country helping meet their very real needs -- heartbreaking is certainly a good word for it). But it's well established in the research literature that, although people with schizophrenia or delusional disorders exist in all cultures, the specific content of their disordered thoughts will be shaped heavily by what they see and hear around them.
Yet another nut case--with access to high-powered automatic weapons with which to kill the rest of us. When will this nation wake up to gun control and declare the NRA and its boss Wayne La Pierre an enemy of national security?
28
Never, we hope.
1
I think if you nail a cross to your cabin, there is a very good chance that you are Christian. If you kill cops and innocents, then there is a very good chance that you are a terrorist. Isn't that what we just called the people in Paris? Or, were they just nut jobs? There really is no difference. There is something called Christian terrorism. Google it. This guy in Colorado seems to be a classic example of a Christian terrorist.
There have been almost 9000 attacks on PP clinics, and employees since the 1970's. This form of terrorism is now generations old. What ever happened to, "do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Something about the way this issue is being preached is fundamentally wrong. The message needs to be taught differently.
I didn't enlist twice and fight a war over there to have all this terrorism in our communities here.
There have been almost 9000 attacks on PP clinics, and employees since the 1970's. This form of terrorism is now generations old. What ever happened to, "do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Something about the way this issue is being preached is fundamentally wrong. The message needs to be taught differently.
I didn't enlist twice and fight a war over there to have all this terrorism in our communities here.
745
and Carly Fiorina bears some responsibility for anyone who acts in reaction to her false statements about the baby parts video
1
The difference between murderous rampages like this and terrorism is that terrorism typically has an organization behind it -- something like the KKK or Daesh -- providing training, equipment, planning, and so on.
Sorry, a lone person with mental health issues is not the same as an organized group that controls a territory the size of the United Kingdom, has 100,000 armed fighters working to overthrow the government of Syria, has in its control tanks, humvees, and anti-aircraft weapons, and that has pledged to attack Europe and the United States.
The attack on planned parenthood can be labeled a "domestic terrorism", if the Justice Department sees that is fitting, but there isn't a comparison between that and radical Islamic groups that you are trying to make.
The attack on planned parenthood can be labeled a "domestic terrorism", if the Justice Department sees that is fitting, but there isn't a comparison between that and radical Islamic groups that you are trying to make.
The pattern is clear, Isolates (either social or by choice) potential mental problems, deadly weapons lead to violence and death.
The founders of this nation knew that ownership of deadly weapons needed to be limited to members of a "well-regulated militia." Membership in the militia is more than simply screening, training, drills, practice, inspections and certification (although these are necessary components), being a member of a well-regulated militia also means having to spend time with your fellow citizens and understand that you have a civic duty. Isolates don't do well in groups as their problems bubble rapidly to the surface. Most of them would not make it past a basic screening.
Let us return the keeping and bearing of deadly weapons under the jurisdiction of the well-regulated militia under the jurisdiction of the civil authority (reference Article 13 Virginia Declaration of Rights).
Mr. President, please issue an executive order mobilizing the citizen militia with a requirement that all militia members be screened, trained, and qualified before they get an endorsement on their militia ID that allows them to purchase weapons and ammunition only for the weapons they have been screened, trained, and qualified to bear. Add in regular inspections and inventories of their personal arsenals as well - too many deadly weapons are reported "lost" and wind up in the wrong hands.
The founders of this nation knew that ownership of deadly weapons needed to be limited to members of a "well-regulated militia." Membership in the militia is more than simply screening, training, drills, practice, inspections and certification (although these are necessary components), being a member of a well-regulated militia also means having to spend time with your fellow citizens and understand that you have a civic duty. Isolates don't do well in groups as their problems bubble rapidly to the surface. Most of them would not make it past a basic screening.
Let us return the keeping and bearing of deadly weapons under the jurisdiction of the well-regulated militia under the jurisdiction of the civil authority (reference Article 13 Virginia Declaration of Rights).
Mr. President, please issue an executive order mobilizing the citizen militia with a requirement that all militia members be screened, trained, and qualified before they get an endorsement on their militia ID that allows them to purchase weapons and ammunition only for the weapons they have been screened, trained, and qualified to bear. Add in regular inspections and inventories of their personal arsenals as well - too many deadly weapons are reported "lost" and wind up in the wrong hands.
8
You are required to have insurance when you buy a car, why not when you buy a gun? I would think that the "market" would set the price cost to own the gun; an automatic would cost more to insure.
I would also not let the owner off the hook for insurance just because they lost a gun. They would have to prove ownership transfer or that it was destroyed. It would reduce the number of guns people decide to have if they were financially responsible for them. This would allow some type of financial restitution to those people harmed by those guns used by the owners or those that are lost by the owners.
I would also not let the owner off the hook for insurance just because they lost a gun. They would have to prove ownership transfer or that it was destroyed. It would reduce the number of guns people decide to have if they were financially responsible for them. This would allow some type of financial restitution to those people harmed by those guns used by the owners or those that are lost by the owners.
3
A headline we'll never read in the NYT:
"Another white Christian terrorist proclaiming "no more baby parts" killed ----people with an assault rifle at a ...... in ..........."
"Another white Christian terrorist proclaiming "no more baby parts" killed ----people with an assault rifle at a ...... in ..........."
28
He thought they "were selling baby parts" because the Tea Party fomented this lie, therefore they are culpable
49
As is Carly Fioriana
21
This is not the sort of record that gives notice of a mass killer. If you think it is, you'd have to put thousands of so-called "trailer trash" under surveillance. What interests me most, frankly, is a legal issue. As soon as Dear was arrested, he had to be Mirandized. And after being Mirandized, you would think a guy who had engaged in a gun battle with the police would refuse to give them a statement. Instead, he gave a long and rambling statement including incriminating remarks. That is a sign of someone unable to think straight.
4
Or proud of what he has done. As some one who purports to be an officer of the court, you should have seen that.
2
Your point is a good one. I would have liked it better, though, if you didn't feel the need to be snarky.
Yet ANOTHER instance of media intrigue and glorification of yet ANOTHER (male) severe character disorder. Sigh...
3
After all the warnings we have been getting from those who would be king, I was terrified when I heard that a terrorist attack was happening here. You can imagine my relief when I learned that it wasn’t an ISIS gunman or and undocumented alien but only another good ole American nut with an assault rifle exercising his First Amendment rights and expressing his views with a gun as permitted by the current understanding of the Second Amendment, the NRA and the gun lobby.
Our founding fathers considered freedom of speech so important that they made it the first right delineated in the Bill of Rights. But it is not absolute. One cannot scream “Fire” in a crowded theater. You can’t call in a false bomb threat. And you are not supposed to insight riot. But just when does the incendiary rhetoric laced with lies that we hear coming from Mr. Trump and his friends cross the line between morally bankrupt and reprehensible free speech and screaming "fire"?
The parallels with 1930’s Germany seem self-evident, except of course that it could never happen here. Or could it? It’s not the loud mouth with a microphone and some crazy followers that make a Fascist state possible. It’s good people who say and do nothing.
Our founding fathers considered freedom of speech so important that they made it the first right delineated in the Bill of Rights. But it is not absolute. One cannot scream “Fire” in a crowded theater. You can’t call in a false bomb threat. And you are not supposed to insight riot. But just when does the incendiary rhetoric laced with lies that we hear coming from Mr. Trump and his friends cross the line between morally bankrupt and reprehensible free speech and screaming "fire"?
The parallels with 1930’s Germany seem self-evident, except of course that it could never happen here. Or could it? It’s not the loud mouth with a microphone and some crazy followers that make a Fascist state possible. It’s good people who say and do nothing.
41
Definitely a "sick puppy" and hardly the "Christian Terrorist" so many bloviated about Mr. Dear when this news first surfaced. Yes - let's talk about gun control, and ensuring that individuals with a record of "incidents" and nasty law breaking attitude towards neighbors doesn't own guns - if that is somehow constitutional. I'm with Obama on this - just waiting for the plan - as long as it doesn't preclude my right to own a protective firearm.
And in the interest of an intelligent discussion let's further stop with the nonsense of labelling those opposed to abortion as terrorists - there's no vast Christian conspiracy to inflict terror on the US; again as was alluded to in comments - some rediculously equating Christianity with ISIS.
But back to guns - it can't be denied that PP would have been much safer if at least several of its employees were armed. Then, more likely, Mr. Dear would be dead instead of the innocents. And - we would have been spared the crazy comments that the cops deliberately didn't kill Mr. Dear because he is a "white male" (now regularly grouped as 'evil'); but if he was instead a black male - well, then he would be dead. Yeah - the cops were in on it - crazy - right?
And in the interest of an intelligent discussion let's further stop with the nonsense of labelling those opposed to abortion as terrorists - there's no vast Christian conspiracy to inflict terror on the US; again as was alluded to in comments - some rediculously equating Christianity with ISIS.
But back to guns - it can't be denied that PP would have been much safer if at least several of its employees were armed. Then, more likely, Mr. Dear would be dead instead of the innocents. And - we would have been spared the crazy comments that the cops deliberately didn't kill Mr. Dear because he is a "white male" (now regularly grouped as 'evil'); but if he was instead a black male - well, then he would be dead. Yeah - the cops were in on it - crazy - right?
23
Excellent comment.
Of course he's a Christian terrorist, the people being sucked into IS are every bit as dumb and brainwashed as this guy, it's just that they are being brainwashed by media that we do not allow over our public airways in the US. This guy is a victim of that exact publicly sanctioned material.
10
You are wrong. There are Christian terrorists. There was a bomb, filled with nails and bolts, planted at a women's clinic in Austin, Texas about ten years ago. The ATF and FBI investigated it and found the perpetrator (young white male) who is now in prison.
11
once again a troubled loser with a gun wreaks havoc.
He is a domestic homegrown terrorist. period the end.
He is a domestic homegrown terrorist. period the end.
18
I guess I see the difference in this crazy person with a gun versus all the other crazy people who have a gun in this way:
This guy apparently was shooting up a PP because they do one thing that he doesn't agree with.
Many other people shoot up a place because the people are different from himself in EVERY WAY (ie: crazy muslim extremists who kill anyone who is not also a crazy muslim extremist).
Crazy muslim extremist is worse because they want you to be a carbon copy of themselves.
Crazy fanatic like Mr. Dear only is annoyed by one of your traits that goes counter to his own belief.
It's all wrong, shooting people who are not trying to kill you, but at least I know that I'm less of a target with crazy Mr. Dear than crazy muslim extremist. That gives me some sort of wierd comfort.
This guy apparently was shooting up a PP because they do one thing that he doesn't agree with.
Many other people shoot up a place because the people are different from himself in EVERY WAY (ie: crazy muslim extremists who kill anyone who is not also a crazy muslim extremist).
Crazy muslim extremist is worse because they want you to be a carbon copy of themselves.
Crazy fanatic like Mr. Dear only is annoyed by one of your traits that goes counter to his own belief.
It's all wrong, shooting people who are not trying to kill you, but at least I know that I'm less of a target with crazy Mr. Dear than crazy muslim extremist. That gives me some sort of wierd comfort.
3
I see your point. But can't agree. We have people killing people in movie theaters, schools, gas stations and clinics. Any one of us could be in any one of those places. The only thing that gives me comfort is staying away from any where people gather now.
6
Weird and illogical comfort it is. He could have had a bag full of explosives instead of a gun--then his path of destruction would have been much larger.
3
So the cop who was killed was a legitimate target? The patients (it seems perhaps some of them died) and the staff caring for them where also ok to kill and hurt- becuase you understand why they were butchered? And this makes you more comfortable, because you know you will never ever be in a place where a guy like this will be. You will never ever do anything the right wing terrorists don't like. You know that didn't work out so well for a lot of Germans either.
3
There are at least 8 or 9 million AR-15 style weapons in the US today.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/12/03/military-style-ar-r...
This type of thing is now the new normal. Get use to it Mr. President.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/12/03/military-style-ar-r...
This type of thing is now the new normal. Get use to it Mr. President.
3
Actually you are saying we all better get used to it. You can't blame the President for his message. For continually trying. That's just rude.
7
According to the Gun Owner's Action League, there are 20 to 30 million "Modern Sporting Rifles" of which the AR-15 style is the most popular, with over 100 million rifles of all types. Factories are churning them out and Americans are buying them as fast as they can. Quite simply, no one is going to shut the factories down, stop the sales of semi-automatic weapons, nor go door-to-door confiscating these weapons, so yeah, we do all need to get use to it.
Every time there is a shooting, the NY Times and other media make the killer front page news. His photo, his life, his wife, his motives. Is it any wonder there are so many copy cat shootings?
We need all media outlets to realize how they empower a shooting culture in this country by 'glorifying' the killer and bringing him into the spotlight. Why not make the stats on the number of shootings in 2015 front page news?
We need all media outlets to realize how they empower a shooting culture in this country by 'glorifying' the killer and bringing him into the spotlight. Why not make the stats on the number of shootings in 2015 front page news?
7
Fox and the rest of the right wing fringeis using that rather odd excuse - don't make him famous- to hide their part in making him.
1
This is a very diverse nation, probably the most diverse ever. The hateful comments that come forth from everyone and anyone of every persuasion creates a poisonous environment that engenders and encourages miscreants such as Mr. Dear. Somehow, if we all had a discipline of civility, decency, love, and good manners toward each other, registering our disdain and preferences only at the ballot box, a lot of these incidents inflaming weaker minds might not be happening. In the final analysis, guns are not the problem. We are.
91
I couldn't agree more. Civility is lost. Anger appears the norm. I am glad I knew what America used to be like.
1
Except that other extremely diverse first world countries don't suffer from this problem. The citizens of Canada and Australia are not intrinsically better than we are—more decent, more civil, etc.—and yet they don't suffer from these constant outbreaks of gun violence. The reason? Both countries suffered terrible gun massacres decades ago, and responded by enacting comprehensive gun control legislation. "Guns are not the problem, we are" is logical only in the sense that we've apparently decided as a nation to prioritize easy access to firearms over human life.
4
And then there are insane people. You don't need ANYTHING to set them off . . . they will always FIND something!
I don't really care to read a ton of details about yet another crazed loner gone mass murderer.
When are reporters going to dig into the personal details of the merchants who sold this murderer his murder weapons?
When can we read the names and see the faces of the corporate of executives of the companies which manufacture and sell these murder weapons?
When can we have an exposé on the members of Congress who take campaign funding from these murder weapon companies, and from the NRA, in return for continually blocking enactment of sensible gun control laws, like those in most other democracies, which have murder rates vastly lower than America's?
When are reporters going to dig into the personal details of the merchants who sold this murderer his murder weapons?
When can we read the names and see the faces of the corporate of executives of the companies which manufacture and sell these murder weapons?
When can we have an exposé on the members of Congress who take campaign funding from these murder weapon companies, and from the NRA, in return for continually blocking enactment of sensible gun control laws, like those in most other democracies, which have murder rates vastly lower than America's?
859
It sounds like none of the restrictions against legal gun sales applied to him or even proposed restrictions.
"When can we read the names and see the faces of the corporate of executives of the companies which manufacture and sell these murder weapons?"
Notice how, in addition to this terrorist's motive now being 'unclear', his weapon is no longer an assault weapon or an assault-style weapon, it is a 'long gun'. We have a lot of people to appease to keep these terrorist acts possible into the future!
Notice how, in addition to this terrorist's motive now being 'unclear', his weapon is no longer an assault weapon or an assault-style weapon, it is a 'long gun'. We have a lot of people to appease to keep these terrorist acts possible into the future!
2
He was not just a crazed loner turned mass murderer. Look at his target and intent. He was a loner TURNED INTO a mass murderer by right wing lies and hate speech.
1
The decisions of the Roberts court and the republican politicians supported by the "billionaire boys club" are turning our nation into a shooting gallery.It will only get worse if either of them continues down this path. Somehow,we as a nation, need to stop them through reasonable and democratic processes.
25
The irony in all of this is that we have thousands screaming about the threat of mostly women and children or at least families of Syrian immigrants, and yet Americans are more likely to be killed by their own fellow Americans, and there is no attempt to pass gun legislation. Go figure. We are sick as a nation.
621
I thought most of the Syrian migrants were young single men.... like the migrants from South America.
2
Who is going to protect those poor Syrian people from lone killers like Mr. Dear?
4
Kay, read and listen to something other than Murdoch's minions
5
It's okay to kill people as long as they're not in a woman's womb.
33
You might want to re-title your article "Everyman."
Dear's desire for privacy, his Type A personality, his religious and political biases, his contentiousness with women, his interest in hunting -- I'll stop there -- describe, to some extent, almost every man that breathed fresh air. The obvious exception being Dear's Friday fandango fiasco.
Instead of deconstructing this Sad Sack's sad life, let's ask a more ponderous question: why did "Everyman" explode on Friday?
I don't know, but I am content that it's NOT because he lived like a hermit, argued with neighbors and ex'es, passed out leaflets, flirted with women, and smoked a little ganja.
I'm sad that most people will sign-off on the "angry loner" theory, and "Everyman" will continue wreaking havoc on civil discourse.
Dear's desire for privacy, his Type A personality, his religious and political biases, his contentiousness with women, his interest in hunting -- I'll stop there -- describe, to some extent, almost every man that breathed fresh air. The obvious exception being Dear's Friday fandango fiasco.
Instead of deconstructing this Sad Sack's sad life, let's ask a more ponderous question: why did "Everyman" explode on Friday?
I don't know, but I am content that it's NOT because he lived like a hermit, argued with neighbors and ex'es, passed out leaflets, flirted with women, and smoked a little ganja.
I'm sad that most people will sign-off on the "angry loner" theory, and "Everyman" will continue wreaking havoc on civil discourse.
8
Thank you for your comment. I agree completely. Particularly since it's never women who commit these atrocities. As a member of the female side of the equation, I have been observing the plight of men from when I was old enough to do so. The potential to be a powder keg is in all of them. And as it gets harder and harder to express their masculinity, get noticed and/or appreciated in our society, the fuses get shorter.
2
Would this person have gone over the edge had not the right wing lie-o-sphere, not to mention some Republican Presidential candidates, been carping nonsense about fetal body parts for purely political reasons? In this case, their propaganda caused some unexpectedly bad blow back.
31
Yep and they are all complicit. And I want them all to know it. Shameful. Shameful.
2
It's not unexpected.
2
After reading about him, he appears to be as normal as any other Sean Hannity
devotee.
devotee.
37
Terrorism: (noun) "the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims." - New Oxford American Dictionary
Terrorism is what this incident was. That is what the next (and the next, and the next) such incident will be.
Now law enforcement must focus its attention on the people who willfully and with zeal spur this on by fanning the flames of hate and rage.
Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. wrote: “The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man in falsely shouting fire in a theatre and causing a panic … . The question in every case is whether the words used are used in such circumstances and are of such a nature as to create a clear and present danger.”
Creating "a clear and present danger" is what a certain "news" network does around the clock. This is what GOP candidates do when they gather to debate. They deliberately whip up fear and rage as a device to grab and maintain power.
It was cute when the fictional Harold Hill got a whole town worked up into a frenzy over a pool table. It is not cute when professional political agitators, who have nothing positive to offer, instigate, provoke, and arouse fury in a mob. The murderous result is predictable.
Law enforcement: it is your duty hold these inciting barbarians to account before they double-down on their deadly, reckless rhetoric (as we all know they will) and incite more such atrocities as this.
Millions of us are begging you. Our lives depend on it.
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
Terrorism is what this incident was. That is what the next (and the next, and the next) such incident will be.
Now law enforcement must focus its attention on the people who willfully and with zeal spur this on by fanning the flames of hate and rage.
Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. wrote: “The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man in falsely shouting fire in a theatre and causing a panic … . The question in every case is whether the words used are used in such circumstances and are of such a nature as to create a clear and present danger.”
Creating "a clear and present danger" is what a certain "news" network does around the clock. This is what GOP candidates do when they gather to debate. They deliberately whip up fear and rage as a device to grab and maintain power.
It was cute when the fictional Harold Hill got a whole town worked up into a frenzy over a pool table. It is not cute when professional political agitators, who have nothing positive to offer, instigate, provoke, and arouse fury in a mob. The murderous result is predictable.
Law enforcement: it is your duty hold these inciting barbarians to account before they double-down on their deadly, reckless rhetoric (as we all know they will) and incite more such atrocities as this.
Millions of us are begging you. Our lives depend on it.
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
17
So no doubt we will now have to stamp out domestic terrorism by eliminating all white male cannabis users living off the grid...
So much for George Washington and Thomas Jefferson.
So much for George Washington and Thomas Jefferson.
1
Yes, there is a connection between releasing deceptively edited videos making Planned Parent look bad and a crazy person going on a murderous rampage. The crazy thing is, those videos aren’t even complaining about abortions themselves; they’re complaining about the clinics profiting off of sales of parts of aborted fetuses for research. Parts that the women gave up willingly, mind you. So really what they’re complaining about is unethical profiteering, not actual abortion. Which isn’t even happening. Like, when’s the last time someone went nuts and killed people over a profiteering plot? If you want to get all upset, why not stick with the original subject, which is providing abortions?
4
Because, I guess, they needed a new angle. Oh. And something really incendiary. From the beginning I felt that the press neglected their duty in not declaring the yellow journalism that that tape was.. Instead they are letting the full force of the lie and exaggeration of the story play themselves out. They are complicit.
1
Amen, amen. So true.
Not the handsome Action-Star Anti-Hero loner living off the grid we all like to watch in the movies. None of those NRA concealed or open carry folks ever seem to be around to save the day from Nut-Bag, Art dealer, Peeping Tom with Commie designed assault rifle. Mr Dear's Mug Shot is obviously Nature's way of saying Don't Touch, Stay away.
4
I think the politicians who started the fetal tissue investigation are also responsible for this shooting. Fetal tissues from all sources have been used for research for years. Why used it to score political points and got people killed?
18
This incident is NOT an act of violence toward women.
It is REACTION to the government sanctioned violence against men
First, Dear killed men. He wounded 5 men and 4 women.
He truly believed abortion is murder.
So there is not violence against women here.
Men's health -- physical and psychological -- is vastly underfunded in comparison to how our government supports women. We ignore the male suicide rates and male rape in prisons. We still ignore the plight of boys' education.
If our government spent money on the health of men and boys, perhaps we might be able to intervene in cases like this and - egads! - HELP such men
Because with the marginalization of men, the access of guns and the increasing male birth rates, decreasing rate of men attending college -- this will only get worse.
It is REACTION to the government sanctioned violence against men
First, Dear killed men. He wounded 5 men and 4 women.
He truly believed abortion is murder.
So there is not violence against women here.
Men's health -- physical and psychological -- is vastly underfunded in comparison to how our government supports women. We ignore the male suicide rates and male rape in prisons. We still ignore the plight of boys' education.
If our government spent money on the health of men and boys, perhaps we might be able to intervene in cases like this and - egads! - HELP such men
Because with the marginalization of men, the access of guns and the increasing male birth rates, decreasing rate of men attending college -- this will only get worse.
1
Yes, he went to a primarily women's clinic because he was acting out against men. And it is probably all Barack Obama's fault because he is a black man. Perfectly understandable. Not.
3
No, I did NOT say he "acted out against men." I am forced to wonder about the reading comprehension.
I said he RE-acted to the government's lack of concern about men.
And if the government properly (fairly, equally) dealt with men's issues (the way it helps women), instead of just buying the feminist line about "toxic masculinity", then maybe we could help men like this and prevent more killings.
But you'd rather be a victim, right? Easier to vilify men, right?
I said he RE-acted to the government's lack of concern about men.
And if the government properly (fairly, equally) dealt with men's issues (the way it helps women), instead of just buying the feminist line about "toxic masculinity", then maybe we could help men like this and prevent more killings.
But you'd rather be a victim, right? Easier to vilify men, right?
Obviously, there is a reading comprehension on your part. I said nothing about toxic masculinity or victimology. You did.
1
WingnutWorld, in its never-ending quest to avoid the consequences of its propaganda, would have us believe that this act of domestic terrorism was the work of a "lone, crazed gunman." Well, DUHHHH. Lonely, crazed people are MOST LIKELY to be motivated by doctored videos of "baby parts" sold for profit and mellifluous voices coming from the radio calling doctors killers and pretty blonde talking heads on TV lamenting the slaughter of the innocents. Mainstream rightwing media are responsible for these deaths. They should at least express remorse.
18
Why is it that there have been numerous times since Jan 1, 2015 that 3 or more people at one incident have been killed by guns in the city of Chicago and unless you live in the area and listened to the daily news you would never even know about it. Now one crazy kills 3 people and it's the headline for newspapers, internet, local news stations and the 24 hour news channels. Why is this anymore senseless then a average weekend in Chicago?
3
White killer; white victims.
The man is a murderer and a terrorist. It's about time we stop allowing certain types of murdere and terrorists excuses for their vicious and cruel behavior, to those who sold their lies about PP. Carly Farina....you are one. These murders are are your hands.
I hope we will focus on the victims and then on the politicians and relgious leaders who create the atmosphere that makes this kind of attack possible. This includes the RC Bishops and, of course, the NRA.
I hope we will focus on the victims and then on the politicians and relgious leaders who create the atmosphere that makes this kind of attack possible. This includes the RC Bishops and, of course, the NRA.
19