Security Against Foreign Enemies? The notion that these Syrians, desperate for a better life after 5 years of having bombs dropped on their heads, chemical weapons used against them, seeing their neighbors having their heads sliced off, their children used as sex slaves etc. are the enemy is laughable. It is a term that only those afraid of the monster under the bed would use. The Syrians, just like us are HUMAN. It is time someone reached their hand out to another human and help lift them up out of their despair.
13
Examine the lies of President Obama....The State Department actually said "....so-called “military-age males” unattached to families make up just two percent of Syrian refugees admitted to date to the United States". Please pay strict attention to the State Dept throwing in the caveat of "unattched to families". The actual number of military-aged males" crossing over is 62% according to UN High Commissioner for Refugees. This is the way that journalists and the President's administration LIES TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ! 62% truth versus 2% LIE....Obama has a very different and dangerous definition of the truth.
19
"Refugees from War Aren't the Enemy?" How do you know that? How can you possibly know that?
The current process takes 18 months to 2 years? And where are they in the mean time? Here. Unvetted. And this seems fine to you? Or do we stick our European allies with them? I'm sure they love that.
Why aren't any ME countries accepting them, even though they share cultures? Maybe, just maybe, they might know something we don't?
This is all just a diversion from the failure of Democrat foreign policy.
The current process takes 18 months to 2 years? And where are they in the mean time? Here. Unvetted. And this seems fine to you? Or do we stick our European allies with them? I'm sure they love that.
Why aren't any ME countries accepting them, even though they share cultures? Maybe, just maybe, they might know something we don't?
This is all just a diversion from the failure of Democrat foreign policy.
21
This is yet another sad example how Congress works. Run for the hills boys and girls the bad guys are out to get you. Passing this bill plays right into the hands of ISIS. It builds more fear and in reality does absolutely nothing to curb terrorism. If this all that Congress can do to assure the American people that they are taking steps to protect our nation then it's a sad state of affairs.
Our Congress has learned nothing since going into Iraq. Maybe the refugees coming in are carrying weapons of mass destruction.
Our Congress has learned nothing since going into Iraq. Maybe the refugees coming in are carrying weapons of mass destruction.
9
Refugees aren't the enemy...the Obama administration is the enemy of America.
11
The GOP no longer wants the US to be the land of the free and the home of the brave. Instead, we are to become the land of the selfish and the home of the paranoid.
13
I keep seeing, "It only takes one mistake in screening to let in a terrorist who could kill thousands." Sure, but if I were a terrorist, I'd hide my needle in the biggest, messiest haystack I could find -- here's what I mean:
OK, there are many millions of Americans already here. There are millions of people here for short-term periods on tourist and other visas. None of these people receive much scrutiny; their process is quick and easy.
On the other hand, we have a few thousand people who sat in a refugee camp for TWO YEARS being studied in detail while they waited and hoped to escape from violence, with children, mothers and the elderly given priority, and most young men refused.
In which group do you think terrorists would want to hide?
OK, there are many millions of Americans already here. There are millions of people here for short-term periods on tourist and other visas. None of these people receive much scrutiny; their process is quick and easy.
On the other hand, we have a few thousand people who sat in a refugee camp for TWO YEARS being studied in detail while they waited and hoped to escape from violence, with children, mothers and the elderly given priority, and most young men refused.
In which group do you think terrorists would want to hide?
11
Good to remember most of these refugees have been in refugee camps in Turkey, Lebanon,and Jordan for years. So vetting is not difficult provided the vetter at least has a high school degree. Archaeologists are not needed for this project. It is quite simple. Record is clear, nobody over the past 12 years admitted as a refugee has been a terrorist.
8
Restricting immigration has a large chance of increasing the risk of terrorist acts in the United States.
Most, if not all, of the perpetrators of the Paris attack were Europeans. The Islamic terrorists were capable of recruiting them because they felt like the didn't belong to the indigenous society.
We need to focus on better integrating Muslims who live in this country into US society so that they are heavily vested in preventing terrorism.
We don't do that by discriminating against refugee victims who happen to be Muslim.
There is a case to be made that a constructive immigration policy could reduce the risk of terrorism.
Most, if not all, of the perpetrators of the Paris attack were Europeans. The Islamic terrorists were capable of recruiting them because they felt like the didn't belong to the indigenous society.
We need to focus on better integrating Muslims who live in this country into US society so that they are heavily vested in preventing terrorism.
We don't do that by discriminating against refugee victims who happen to be Muslim.
There is a case to be made that a constructive immigration policy could reduce the risk of terrorism.
11
The CIA and FBI think they can fight a guerrilla war with heavy artillery, bombs, tanks, satellites, computers, and phone scans. That's why we have been losing for over 10 years.
George Bush's FBI went around the country bashing and intimidating Moslem and Arab students. Our state college lost most of them who left out of fear of harassment. At the time, obviously these students were not considered candidates for gum shoe information collectors. Our government thought it would be best to harass them, for showy political-security propaganda. Our pathetic lack of intelligence (e.g.: the blindness of the rise of ISIS) is the result of this decadent incompetent security culture, which needs to be overhauled.
George Bush's FBI went around the country bashing and intimidating Moslem and Arab students. Our state college lost most of them who left out of fear of harassment. At the time, obviously these students were not considered candidates for gum shoe information collectors. Our government thought it would be best to harass them, for showy political-security propaganda. Our pathetic lack of intelligence (e.g.: the blindness of the rise of ISIS) is the result of this decadent incompetent security culture, which needs to be overhauled.
6
There is a larger issue.
On a personal level, I’m sure we all sympathize with the refugees throughout the Middle East and Europe, but there is cold, hard math involved of greater importance to us: Every Syrian/Iraqi man who could fight for his country but flees = x American fighting men. Each one of them is like a stone laid on one pan of a balance scale weighing for our deeper involvement.
On a personal level, I’m sure we all sympathize with the refugees throughout the Middle East and Europe, but there is cold, hard math involved of greater importance to us: Every Syrian/Iraqi man who could fight for his country but flees = x American fighting men. Each one of them is like a stone laid on one pan of a balance scale weighing for our deeper involvement.
5
During World War II, a U.S. president forced the internment of Japanese- Americans. With a broad brush stroke, an entire group of law-abiding individuals were labeled as potential enemies of our country. This chapter of our history is now viewed with shame and regret. Have we learned nothing from history?
13
This is a clear opportunity for America to show the world who we really are: Optimistic, forward-looking, welcoming, open and ever striving for equal rights for all. It's also an opportunity for pure empathy to extinguish raw fear. All it takes is to picture, for a mere moment, one's self in a refugee's shoes, exhausted and displaced and oppressed, yet hopeful, seeking a smile of understanding.
6
It's simply appalling the way our Senators, Congressmen, and Governors, most of whom are Protestant Christian, are acting regarding the Syrian refugees. The ironic part being that chances are pretty good that their ancestors were refugees themselves, fleeing Europe because of religious persecution, to what was to become the United States!
10
Let's talk about refugees. Of course we should take in many more refugees and the procedures for that long process are already very adequate to protect Americans. It's shameful that this is even a controversy. Syrians are welcome in my neighborhood. And speaking of shame, what has happened to all the children fleeing drug cartels and murder in Central America? I understand the United States is paying Mexico to intercept them and turn them back. There was a little bit about this in the NYT and then nothing. I would like to know more, but they've disappeared from the news media. These issues are related.
3
Those who have more prejudice than compassion will want to turn away the Syrian refugees, regardless of their suffering. Those of us who have more compassion than prejudice want to screen as carefully as possible and then welcome thousands of Syrians, people who are desperately fleeing from the same evil that led to murders in Paris.
It is really that simple.
It is really that simple.
6
I notice that all of the commenters on this article opposing HB 2043 seemed to have failed to used the link in the first paragraph and read the strait forward 5 page bill, because none of the comments opposing it site a single word of the bill. None. The bill simply calls for 1) Homeland Security, the FBI and the National Intelligence Agency to conduct sufficient background checks as to assure that individual refugees from Syria and Iraq don't pose a security threat to our country 2) that they share their information with each other 3) that the Inspector General perform an annual review to make sure the processes are adequately screening refugees for that purpose and 4) that these agencies file a report monthly with their overseeing congressional committees. Period. That's all it says. My questions for all the opponents, which one of those provisions is so xenophobic, unreasonable, anti immigrant or a breach of American values as to elicit your hyperbolic comments. If you can't challenge one of those specific components of the bill... Then stop spewing your emotional rhetoric.
7
I personally don't think that the call to close the borders is about the mid-east refugees as much as it is about the non-enforcement of laws governing entry into the US, whether across land borders, sea borders or air boarders. There seems to be no willingness for the government to enforce laws already in place. If so, change the laws but enforce them. Congress and the Executive branches seem to want the voters to judge their success by how many laws they have enacted. If a law is passed it means nothing if it is not enforced. I suspect that many laws are passed with no intention of being enforced. They are simply there so the Congress or the President can point to the law and say "see what I accomplished" to satisfy some supporters when actually the law has accomplished nothing because it is not enforced.
13
In addition the not particularly encouraging picture Europe offers of Muslim integration into liberal, secular cultures, I suspect that some of this anger and pandering is being transferred from one set of very numerous illegal immigrants with seeming impunity to walk in and stay, to what I will agree is a well-vetted, small number of quite legal refugees.
Had the US government done more to earn the voters' respect with regard to the one set of illegal migrants, there might be less opportunity to mobilise anger toward another set coming in through a completely different set of circumstances. Governments continue to believe that if they just keep avoiding doing something people want them to do, it won't come back and bite them at another, most inopportune time.
And lastly, Americans don't trust our government, for very good reasons. All right, they say the vetting process is terrific. Perhaps it is. But that's the same government whose FBI and CIA, despite all the information they had about the perpetrators of 9/11, failed to connect the dots, to ghastly and massive cost to the country.
The government has failed to earn trust from the electorate on many fronts, including illegal migration through our southern border. Now it wants us to trust it again. Small wonder there's political hay to be made from its previous failures.
Had the US government done more to earn the voters' respect with regard to the one set of illegal migrants, there might be less opportunity to mobilise anger toward another set coming in through a completely different set of circumstances. Governments continue to believe that if they just keep avoiding doing something people want them to do, it won't come back and bite them at another, most inopportune time.
And lastly, Americans don't trust our government, for very good reasons. All right, they say the vetting process is terrific. Perhaps it is. But that's the same government whose FBI and CIA, despite all the information they had about the perpetrators of 9/11, failed to connect the dots, to ghastly and massive cost to the country.
The government has failed to earn trust from the electorate on many fronts, including illegal migration through our southern border. Now it wants us to trust it again. Small wonder there's political hay to be made from its previous failures.
9
If the Republicans are serious about preventing terrorists from entering the U.S., they should pass bills prohibiting visa waiver programs with European countries. There are hundreds if not thousands of ISIS terrorists who are EU country citizens and hold legitimate passports of France, UK, Germany, and many other European countries. They can enter the U.S. without visa or any serious screening. The move by the Republicans in the Congress to ban admissions of Syrian refugees who have undergone vigorous vetting by multiple US agencies and have to endure 18 months to 2 years of waiting is disingenuous and just demagoguery and fear mongering. I dare the Republican Congress to raise the question of re-instating visa requirements for Europeans. Targeting only the most venerable is cowardly.
5
Meantime Obama puts Social Security on the table in the latest budget talks with Congress. Take Social Security off the budget talks table and then tell me about the economic migrants or so called refugees. It is clear on whose plate the economic burden of this yet another culture war squabble is going to end up on, those of our own most economically vulnerable citizens.
6
The problem with a mass admission of middle eastern migrants is less about adding to the danger of terrorism today and more about the danger a few years from now. There is no telling which of the children among the peaceful families, or those yet to be born, will become alienated and radicalized. How many times have we read about a home grown terrorist, "He was just a sweet normal kid until he came under the influence of the internet" or a radical cleric? Regardless of our sympathy for the unfortunate refugees, the duty of the U.S. government is to look after the safety and welfare of American citizens before it tries to solve everyone else's problems. President Obama may need to be reminded that he isn't President of the world.
It isn't in America's interest to import a critical mass of migrants who will expect housing, services, health care and jobs, while having little to offer in return and who are unlikely to assimilate into our culture. France did that. How happy is that country today.
It isn't in America's interest to import a critical mass of migrants who will expect housing, services, health care and jobs, while having little to offer in return and who are unlikely to assimilate into our culture. France did that. How happy is that country today.
8
Many Republicans have long advocated putting American boots on the ground and American lives on the line in Syria to defend the Syrian people against the tyrant Assad. So why are they now unwilling to put American lives on the line by taking the small risk of a terror attack, in order to help those same Syrians who are now refugees?
2
Another indication how exceptional our country is.
1
Xenophobia: "intense or irrational dislike or fear of people from other countries." It's irrational to equate people who are fleeing from violence with those who are committing the violence. Using the same "logic", a woman fleeing from an abusive husband would be denied entrance to a shelter.
5
No one wants to see anyone hurt by a terrorist attack. This panic and cowardice since 9/11 egged on by politicians is disgusting and counter productive. 9/11 was painful and sad. It did not threaten the existence of the United States. Refugees should be screened as they are. They are not an existential threat to anyone except our values, if we over react.
6
They may not be enemy, but they look like one. Never has any nation, this one included, handled that reality with particular aplomb. Too little caution and you get your hand bitten. Too much caution and we get the injustice of profiling, a conundrum which we are unlikely to decipher any better now than in the past. If there is a sure fire algorithm designed to identify the guilty among a national reservoir of the innocent, by all means let's employ it, but the variability of human nature tends to confound prognostication.
1
Can lawmakers guarantee that a would-be terrorist might infiltrate the country as a Syrian refugee and commit a horrible, deadly act, even though it's unlikely to happen like that? No. No more than lawmakers can guarantee that a U.S. citizen who buys high-powered weapons and ammo at a gun show, pawn shop, or retailer won’t go to a school and commit a horrible, deadly act. So I wonder how many of the politicians calling for even more scrutiny (many of them apparently oblivious to the layers of security checks already in place) would call for more restrictions on gun sales.
3
We cannot allow those imbedded within the refugees to take advantage of our compassion. Refugees or immigrants who turn to crime for whatever reason are not like thousands, or perhaps millions of fanatical hardline Muslims who regard the tenants of ISLAM, as a mandate for destroying the West's way of life and committing atrocities in the name of their faith. Very different than a common criminal. And as we already know there have been refugees vetted by the US government who have committed terrorist acts in the name of their religion against America. Major Nidal Malik Hasan and the Boston marathon bombers and dozens of others are examples of just how ineffective the vetting process is. It would make far more sense to engage Muslim Countries where they share a common faith, language and culture and help those countries set up resettlement centers for the refugees. Finally, we already have serious problems that continue to fester here in America with no resolution in sight; Homelessness, increasing racial tensions, illegal immigration and a National debt soaring out of control. Does it make sense to add a potential nightmare like Europe is living at this very moment? This is not about being anti-immigrant or anti-refugee. This is about weighing the risks involved and being prudent. There are many ways to help the refugees other than bringing them and the potential terrorists imbedded among them into our communities.
3
I would like Rep. McCaul to draft a bill that requires the ATF to certify that every gun purchaser in the U.S. is not a threat to other U.S. Citizens.
4
As usual the liberal writer leaves out pertinent facts. Current vetting relies on the foreign government from which the immigrant comes for such information referenced by the writer. Thanks to Mr. Obama and Ms. Clinton there is no government in Libya or Syria to request information from.
Their ill advised toppling of the Libyan leader and subsequent abandonment of Libya has left a void filled by terrorist's loyal to The Islamic State and the Caliphate (same for Iraq). Syria was an exercise in weakness by the paper tigers Obama & Clinton that promoted the take over of much of that country by TIS from which they now kill innocent men, women, and children in Europe. It is just a matter of time before a disaster is perpetrated on an american city. It matters little how they get here, indeed they are already here; but common sense protective measures need to be considered beyond the crippled methods of vetting that now exists.
Anyone who uses this situation to claim someone else is politicizing it simply is a fool for an ideology they likely know little about.
Their ill advised toppling of the Libyan leader and subsequent abandonment of Libya has left a void filled by terrorist's loyal to The Islamic State and the Caliphate (same for Iraq). Syria was an exercise in weakness by the paper tigers Obama & Clinton that promoted the take over of much of that country by TIS from which they now kill innocent men, women, and children in Europe. It is just a matter of time before a disaster is perpetrated on an american city. It matters little how they get here, indeed they are already here; but common sense protective measures need to be considered beyond the crippled methods of vetting that now exists.
Anyone who uses this situation to claim someone else is politicizing it simply is a fool for an ideology they likely know little about.
4
Are they all refugees? is the question. How paranoid and xenophobic would everyone be if it had been 129 Americans dead in NYC? Remember 9/11?
3
If you look at radicalized Islamic youth, in the UK, it is not the first generation immigrants but their offspring who take offense at feeling marginalized as Muslims and depart for Syria. The Bethnal Green schoolgirls is a case in point.
6
Earlier this week, I visited the Japanese "relocation center" at Manzanar in the eastern Sierra of California. In one of the video displays, a former internee stressed the importance of not making the same mistake again with Muslims. If the KKK launches a terror campaign, do we detain all white southerners? If so, I guess I have to pack a bag and lock up the house.
9
Of course, imprisoning citizens without evidence of criminality is quite different from allowing entry of persons without evidence of non-criminality (or for that matter, cultural incompatibility -- such as being an Islamist).
4
As the Israeli paper, Haaretz, reported in August 2015, “Under its leader, Iraqi jihadi Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the Islamic State group's top command is dominated by former officers from Saddam's military and intelligence agencies” .
The unwise invasion of Iraq and the decision by Paul Bremmer, head of the Occupational Authority, to discharge these military leaders are directly related to the rise of ISIS and the cause of this refugee problem.
The unwise invasion of Iraq and the decision by Paul Bremmer, head of the Occupational Authority, to discharge these military leaders are directly related to the rise of ISIS and the cause of this refugee problem.
11
What about pulling out our military?? Do you think all this would have happened our military was still in Iraq? I definitely think Obama doesn't care about foreign policy. He is more concerned with racial inequities and Socialism.
2
@Jtati,
Predictably you forget that Obama has his share of blame. Obama first withdrew our military from Iraq leaving a power vacuum that ISIS filled. Obama halfheartedly initially supported Syrian rebels and then abandoned them allowing Assad to use chemical weapons and barrel bombs. This has prolonged the Syrian civil war and led directly to the refugees. He should have provided full support to the rebels, or stayed out of it altogether and allowed Assad to regain control. Obama's support of the so called Arab "spring" and the Muslim Brotherhood has led to instability across the ME fueling the Islamic terrorists and weakening our allies. It is no wonder Putin has shown such disdain to Obama and has moved in to fill the void.
As a result Americans do not trust this president.
Predictably you forget that Obama has his share of blame. Obama first withdrew our military from Iraq leaving a power vacuum that ISIS filled. Obama halfheartedly initially supported Syrian rebels and then abandoned them allowing Assad to use chemical weapons and barrel bombs. This has prolonged the Syrian civil war and led directly to the refugees. He should have provided full support to the rebels, or stayed out of it altogether and allowed Assad to regain control. Obama's support of the so called Arab "spring" and the Muslim Brotherhood has led to instability across the ME fueling the Islamic terrorists and weakening our allies. It is no wonder Putin has shown such disdain to Obama and has moved in to fill the void.
As a result Americans do not trust this president.
3
I just called my congressional representative, Peter King, to protest the bill HR 4038 and was met with hostility by his legislative representative. Though not surprised at this I am sure that most of those calling his office today are in favor of this bill. Appealing to fear and xenophobia is as much a part of the American political landscape as apple pie and Thanksgiving before we exterminated the Indian population. We never learn that. as Eleanor Roosevelt noted, we are all immigrants; we were all, from the beginning, also refugees fleeing injustice and harm to our spirits and body. Americans can be better than this in an election year or not. Pandering to the worst will not protect us.
14
Are you aware that the year is 2015, not 1815 or even 1915? Resources are limited. Land is limited. Millions of American citizens are hurting, and we are told there is no money for them. Why are there suddenly unlimited funds for people we know so little about?
6
Since Republican governors (including, amazingly, Massachusetts governor Charlie Baker) are trying to slam the doors to needy refugees, out of suspicion and fear (and in some cases just dislike of muslim aliens), one wonders why they would stop there. They are behaving as though states can have immigration policies. In that case, why not have a closed-door policy for everyone they don't want in their states? They could say no gays allowed to settle in Louisiana. No liberals, no vegetarians, no gun-control advocates, no non-English-speakers, in fact nobody in any way different enough to make the majority uncomfortable. No one from India. Oh wait, we'll let them in if they change their names to something that sounds more normal, like Bobby.
10
Mostly, sounds pretty good policy, but I agree it should be on a national basis
1
Hey all. There's a lot of fear and it's understandable. But, let's show the world what makes America great: we're the home of the free and the...brave.
13
Don't patronize us, if you please. We actually know that refugees aren't the enemy. That's no reason not to consider future demographics or ignore from Europe's bad experiences with assimilation and integration, especially of conservative Islam. The fact remains that we have porous southern borders that our idiot government (including the GOP) has left that way for decades because it benefits the Big Agriculture, Big Construction, and Big Hospitality industries, all while wringing its hands about our "broken" immigration system. There's nothing "broken" about it; the laws are perfectly sound. But the government can't or won't enforce them.
As far as Europe goes, the demographic issues are still a taboo subject, as is the blindingly unfair notion that European populations should get no voice whatsoever in a huge influx of ME migrants, 80% of whom are economic migrants, who will constitute yet another low wage workforce compressing wages. Germany is already discussing lowering the minimum wage for everyone so they can put the new migrants in jobs as soon as possible. I'm sure that will do wonders for German appreciation of Merkel's "generosity". Dear me, what were all those ivory tower economists saying a couple of months ago about the wonderful benefits of all that migration?!
To this day, the views of host populations are absent from representation in this paper. The migrants are the only ones with a "side".
It's never that simple, except to the TIMES editorial board.
As far as Europe goes, the demographic issues are still a taboo subject, as is the blindingly unfair notion that European populations should get no voice whatsoever in a huge influx of ME migrants, 80% of whom are economic migrants, who will constitute yet another low wage workforce compressing wages. Germany is already discussing lowering the minimum wage for everyone so they can put the new migrants in jobs as soon as possible. I'm sure that will do wonders for German appreciation of Merkel's "generosity". Dear me, what were all those ivory tower economists saying a couple of months ago about the wonderful benefits of all that migration?!
To this day, the views of host populations are absent from representation in this paper. The migrants are the only ones with a "side".
It's never that simple, except to the TIMES editorial board.
32
I say "No". I'm appalled and ashamed that so many are behind this. It is not what this country stands for, one of our most iconic symbols, the Statue of Liberty, embodies who we are, or at least who I thought we were. The French are still going to receive refugees. What's wrong with us? When did we become so mean-spirited and craven? . . . "These are the times that try men's souls . . ."
11
This article ignores the fact that we live in a representative democracies. The House bill reflects the desires of the vast majority of Americans because of serious security and safety concerns.
This article, and the Obama administration, argues that the Syrian refugees will be thoroughly vetted by looking at the applicants' histories and law enforcement and travel records. But where are they going to get these records? From the Syrian government! C'mon, why do we have any reason to believe ISIS followers in Syria will get flagged by criminal records? Most of these people will have no records at all. Stop pretending like we can really vet all these people and that they pose no threat.
And stop ignoring that there is a humanitarian alternative that does not put our homeland at risk: set up safe zones in Syria and Iraq for these refugees, and defeat ISIS. This president's refusal to forcefully pursue those actions is a shame, and he should stop blaming Republicans for looking out for real and imminent security concerns shared by the vast majority of Americans.
This article, and the Obama administration, argues that the Syrian refugees will be thoroughly vetted by looking at the applicants' histories and law enforcement and travel records. But where are they going to get these records? From the Syrian government! C'mon, why do we have any reason to believe ISIS followers in Syria will get flagged by criminal records? Most of these people will have no records at all. Stop pretending like we can really vet all these people and that they pose no threat.
And stop ignoring that there is a humanitarian alternative that does not put our homeland at risk: set up safe zones in Syria and Iraq for these refugees, and defeat ISIS. This president's refusal to forcefully pursue those actions is a shame, and he should stop blaming Republicans for looking out for real and imminent security concerns shared by the vast majority of Americans.
20
"So far, half of the Syrian refugees accepted into the United States, officials say, have been children, and another quarter are over 60 years old. Roughly half are female, and many of those applying from abroad are multigenerational families, often with the primary breadwinner missing."
Isn't research showing that the immigrant young males who grow up homes without fathers (or with non-involved fathers) are more likely to join the radicals?
Isn't research showing that the immigrant young males who grow up homes without fathers (or with non-involved fathers) are more likely to join the radicals?
3
So, in the fear they MIGHT turn violent in 15 years, we leave them to grow up in a war zone or transit camp. Great thinking.
1
So, how are these families being supported, if there is no breadwinner?
1
These naive grandstanders are so fearful about taking in Syrian refugees. Why don't they do something about the lack of gun safety regulation? Our own US citizens are going on killing sprees in our schools, churches, theaters, etc. Now that would save some lives.
9
The "progressive" New York Times represents the dangerous insanity of the left. It isn't xenophobia, it is a desire to protect our Country and our families from terrorist infiltrators that will invariably be embedded with the refugees, who we have no way to vet. Moreover, why shouldn't the Arab world accept these refugees with open arms rather than Europe and the U.S.!!? They don't because they realize how stupid the politically correct left is in the West. Liberals, who are incredibly intolerant to Christians and conservatives, swoon with tolerance for those who would destroy our way of life. Sick indeed.
The New York Times tightly censors their blogs to "approve" only those comments they believe do not damage their cause. We shall see if they truly revere the First Amendment and publish my comments
The New York Times tightly censors their blogs to "approve" only those comments they believe do not damage their cause. We shall see if they truly revere the First Amendment and publish my comments
22
You will find a large number of these refugees bring with them the sickness of coming from Syria and other countries in that area. They will always hate various of us because that is a way of life they were brought up in.
4
... and you know this how?
We are in far greater danger from the gun toting domestic terrorists who stalk our churches, movie houses and schools than we are from any possible Syrian infiltrators. But do the chest beating governors who play to the public's worst fears do anything to control or stop domestic gun violence? Not one bit, pointing up the hypocrisy of their professed concern for public safety. The NRA and other gun lobby groups do more to make our society unsafe than any number of jihadis possibly could. The contradictions in our politics and public lives continue to mount.
9
I feel that it's high time we fully looked into Ted Cruz' and Marco Rubio's background, and demanded to know why they support bringing tens of thousands of Cuban criminals into Florida under the most-liberal immigration rules in America.
4
According to the NYT, Mike Brown was but a child, and Trayvon Martin too. When you say half are children, what exactly is meant by this? And the fact that women make up a large proportion shouldn't put anyone at ease - a woman just blew herself up in Paris yesterday, and the Tsarnaev "children" were radicalized by their mother.
Also of importance - the people fleeing Assad are at a higher risk of becoming radicalized. Don't let people with a political agenda or ignorance of the demographics confuse you on this. The Syrian refugees are the losers in his war against people who would like to turn Syria into an extension of ISIS's caliphate, they're mostly conservative Sunni, and if they want to turn Syria around, they're free to join Assad's forces just like thousands of Shia, moderate Sunni, and Christians have. I find it highly curious that the tide of refugees drastically accelerated when Assad started to turn the tide.
Finally, keep this in mind. Our country's primary duty is to safeguard us, the citizens of this country. We have no obligation to anyone else, and if the state fails at protecting us, especially when there's no upside to the risk, the state loses legitimacy. Weigh the benefit of allowing the Tsarnaev family into this country, with the cost of the pain and suffering they inflicted. It isn't worth it. Stop the tide - give them a safezone in Turkey or northern Syria, protected by US troops if need be, but there's absolutely no good reason to bring them here
Also of importance - the people fleeing Assad are at a higher risk of becoming radicalized. Don't let people with a political agenda or ignorance of the demographics confuse you on this. The Syrian refugees are the losers in his war against people who would like to turn Syria into an extension of ISIS's caliphate, they're mostly conservative Sunni, and if they want to turn Syria around, they're free to join Assad's forces just like thousands of Shia, moderate Sunni, and Christians have. I find it highly curious that the tide of refugees drastically accelerated when Assad started to turn the tide.
Finally, keep this in mind. Our country's primary duty is to safeguard us, the citizens of this country. We have no obligation to anyone else, and if the state fails at protecting us, especially when there's no upside to the risk, the state loses legitimacy. Weigh the benefit of allowing the Tsarnaev family into this country, with the cost of the pain and suffering they inflicted. It isn't worth it. Stop the tide - give them a safezone in Turkey or northern Syria, protected by US troops if need be, but there's absolutely no good reason to bring them here
15
ISIS wants these civilians to remain in Syria and Iraq. The refugees are living proof that their effort to create a growing Caliphate is failing. Terrorism is a violent mechanism to polarize the West against Muslims and rejection of the people fleeing their regime is exactly what ISIS hopes to achieve. The political leaders who insist on blocking the flight of these desperate families from the horror of war are playing directly into the hands of our sworn enemy.
4
Knowing the level of competence recently exhibited by government agencies, (the IRS, VA, GSA, Secret Service, "Obamcare" roll out, Justice Dept., etc.), what is wrong with taking a break and looking again at our "vetting" procedures? We know we are a target and we know that Syrians are a suspicious group. As for the amount of female Syrians, we did have a Syrian female blow herself up this week in Paris. Willingness to assimilate into our culture and values is a factor also. We already have seen in Boston where today's refugee becomes tomorrow's terrorist.
10
I am not sure I trust our federal government to do a great job of screening immigrants entering our country. Case in point, our Airport security folks seem 'below average' at their job relative to their counterparts in Europe. If the immigration folks are anything like our TSA screeners then I would probably agree with better screening procedures.
To be clear, I am all for allowing immigration from Syria and other countries. I just want to know the screening procedures are as thorough as they need to be. While the President's speeches on this subject are comforting; the devil is in the details on this issue and I'm not sure he is up close and personal on the details of immigration.
To be clear, I am all for allowing immigration from Syria and other countries. I just want to know the screening procedures are as thorough as they need to be. While the President's speeches on this subject are comforting; the devil is in the details on this issue and I'm not sure he is up close and personal on the details of immigration.
12
No one ever said the refugees are the problem. The concern is our friendly terrorists sneaking in with them to cause havoc in the US. Extra screening seems like a simple solution to the issue. Its called a "compromise" to sooth frayed nerves. This really should not be a campaign issue.
6
any male age 18 to 35 should be sent back to fight for their mothers sisters and children
6
Who would you suggest they fight for? Assad? The "moderate" rebels currently under attack from Russia? ISIS?
1
The problem is any "vetting" process is extremely unreliable and you can't be sure who is really a refugee from the war or who is sneaking in. Its not worth the risk.
8
Refuge
Who are the refugees?
Are they the people who
Have lost their homeland?
Their geography and lives cracked
Open and and spilling out.
Walking away,
Stones of bitterness
Packed with their few belongings.
Grief surfing the hems
Of women and children
Men grim with despair
Crossing ancient battlefields
Towards an indecipherable
Faceless future.
Bargaining for compassion.
Searching the horizon
For a friendly face, a hand, a heart
Hope in any form.Shelter in any form
Lifting a child up
To better see the blue sky.
Charles Coombs 2015
Who are the refugees?
Are they the people who
Have lost their homeland?
Their geography and lives cracked
Open and and spilling out.
Walking away,
Stones of bitterness
Packed with their few belongings.
Grief surfing the hems
Of women and children
Men grim with despair
Crossing ancient battlefields
Towards an indecipherable
Faceless future.
Bargaining for compassion.
Searching the horizon
For a friendly face, a hand, a heart
Hope in any form.Shelter in any form
Lifting a child up
To better see the blue sky.
Charles Coombs 2015
1
Anyone who has worked in and around large government agencies knows how important cross-organizational data sharing is and how long it takes to transform processes and modernize technology systems to allow for accurate sharing of data.
The question around what kind of data can be trusted to allow the American people to know whether taking in 10,000 Syrian refugees is safe is not unreasonable to ask. There is an emphasis on safety because, as we all know, one of the perpetrators in the Paris massacre held a Syrian passport.
I'm an Independent voter who has voted for Democrats in national elections, but will not again vote for a Democrat who does not take the security concerns of the American public seriously. This administration appears to be ignoring what the majority of American people want: http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-11-18/bloomberg-poll-mos...
Ask all the people in Boston what it was like to receive robocalls to 'shelter in place' during the days after the Boston bombing. It wasn't pretty.
The question around what kind of data can be trusted to allow the American people to know whether taking in 10,000 Syrian refugees is safe is not unreasonable to ask. There is an emphasis on safety because, as we all know, one of the perpetrators in the Paris massacre held a Syrian passport.
I'm an Independent voter who has voted for Democrats in national elections, but will not again vote for a Democrat who does not take the security concerns of the American public seriously. This administration appears to be ignoring what the majority of American people want: http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-11-18/bloomberg-poll-mos...
Ask all the people in Boston what it was like to receive robocalls to 'shelter in place' during the days after the Boston bombing. It wasn't pretty.
9
Labeling as Un-American those with whom you disagree, is the last refuge of a scoundrel. And make no mistake, the assertion, "this is not who we are" is the substantive equivalent of characterizing your political opponents as Un-American. More fundamentally it is a meaningless assertion. When we have been at war we have secured our borders against potential infiltrators. The democratic icon, FDR went so far during WWII as to inter Americans of Japanese decent. So please, spare me the sanctimony. Moreover, why should we trust our government's assurances that the refugees can be adequately vetted. ISIS has already fooled our President into thinking he was dealing with the JV team. Our President's Department of Homeland security is a sieve. Recall that just months ago we learned tests run by undercover agents at airports revealed a 94% success rate in smuggling through potential weapons. This means TSA was catching only 6% of contraband. The Obama administration is filled with patriots, it's just that they are incompetent and misguided. Exhibit A is Obama's Secretary of State who sees a certain rationale in the previous ISIS attacks in France on Charlie Hebddo.
11
If only Americans who buy guns were screened as carefully as the refugees are who seek shelter here. America would be a much safer country. The refugees who have settled here are amazingly law-abiding. Screening works.
Just imagine: If the NRA were sponsoring the refugees, they would already be settled here, no questions asked.
Just imagine: If the NRA were sponsoring the refugees, they would already be settled here, no questions asked.
5
Nearly five times as many Americans were killed by gun violence last week as victims of terrorism in Paris. If Republicans truly wish to protect our citizens, they'd insist on the same level of scrutiny of American gun owners as that they wish to impose on families and children fleeing international violence that is largely of our making.
7
It's a lie that each potential immigrant would be vetted for 18 mo to 2 years. If that were the case, none would be allowed in next year. But at least the Feds need to let the public know the exact particulars of where the immigrants will be kept for the 18 to 24 months and how they are vetted since reportedly they don't have 'papers' and what paper trail is available from Syria?
8
Hypothetically, let's assume that one terrorist comes in with 10,000 Syrian refugees and commits a terrorist act. How many American lives are worth the 9,999 safe refugees who are allowed to live here?
One life, 10 lives, 100 lives?
If you can answer that question with a positive number, then you really don't understand the question.
One life, 10 lives, 100 lives?
If you can answer that question with a positive number, then you really don't understand the question.
5
Why don't you pray for protection of our country then ... O ye of so little faith.
There would not be a Syrian refugee crisis but for the insurgence of ISIS in Syria. Despite the President's bluster, the fact is that we have done very little to effectively eradicate ISIS. Before we embark on a large scale operation to import Syrian refugees at our peril and cost, we should at least develop and implement an effective strategy to address the threat of ISIS?
4
If "gun control" is to "gun violence" as "vetting process" is to "terrorism" then we are in for a "blood bath" Given that "security" has to be "correct" 100% and the terrorists have to be "correct" only once and that we have 1,000 on going investigations with some 70 arrest being made demonstrates the flows inherent in the claims of a strong vetting process.
1
Politicians who create fear and loathing or stoke the flames of racism and xenophobia should be expelled from our political system. America is a nation based upon diversity and inclusion. Division and exclusion are not American values.
Professional politicians should be able to discuss issues without resorting to the most base of human emotions. If they can't we should repudiate them.
Professional politicians should be able to discuss issues without resorting to the most base of human emotions. If they can't we should repudiate them.
4
Citizen action time. I don't use twittter but if you do and if you are in favor of allowing Syrian refugees (who have already been vetted by both the U.N. and the U.S.) to come to America then send out a tweet saying "NO to HR4038 - Allow Amnesty for Syrian Refugees" and send it to your Congressional representatives and State legislators today. Let's stop this racist/radical religionist war on immigrants NOW.
1
How about drafting all the young men who come here as refugees and sending them to fight for their countries along side us and our European allies? We would help their families as payment. That would do one of two things, either help put boots on the ground in the battle that is, after all, their battle or halting immigration altogether and demonstrating that these young man are cowards.
8
As best I understand the left's position on immigration, it is as follows:
1) If you find your way across our borders, you have the right to stay here forever and work. We will never send you home and eventually confer citizenship on you
2) If you come from a war torn country, we will also accept you regardless of what your values are. Don't believe your wife should be free to drive a car? no problem, come on in. don't believe your daughters should be educated? no problem come on in. You believe rape is not rape unless there are five male witnesses? no problem, come on in. You believe homicide is justifiable if I insult your religion? No problem - come on in.
I applaud immigration. It founded our country. It is the lifeblood of who we are. That said, only people who share our values (freedom, freedom to speak) should not be invited here. They will degrade who we are.
To boot, asking for additional securities measures at this time for Syrian immigrants, when ISIS is trying to flood the world with its operatives makes sense. We're not saying we don't want immigrants. We are saying that we need to know they are not terrorists before we allow them in. We are at war with ISIS even if our leader does not acknowledge that. Things changes during war.
1) If you find your way across our borders, you have the right to stay here forever and work. We will never send you home and eventually confer citizenship on you
2) If you come from a war torn country, we will also accept you regardless of what your values are. Don't believe your wife should be free to drive a car? no problem, come on in. don't believe your daughters should be educated? no problem come on in. You believe rape is not rape unless there are five male witnesses? no problem, come on in. You believe homicide is justifiable if I insult your religion? No problem - come on in.
I applaud immigration. It founded our country. It is the lifeblood of who we are. That said, only people who share our values (freedom, freedom to speak) should not be invited here. They will degrade who we are.
To boot, asking for additional securities measures at this time for Syrian immigrants, when ISIS is trying to flood the world with its operatives makes sense. We're not saying we don't want immigrants. We are saying that we need to know they are not terrorists before we allow them in. We are at war with ISIS even if our leader does not acknowledge that. Things changes during war.
17
"According to U.S. Customs and Border Protection, during Reagan’s eight years we saw an average of 1,056,500 illegal immigrants try to cross our border every year. Under President Obama, that number is down to 417,000."
Read more at: http://www.forwardprogressives.com/proof-illegal-immigration-worse-ronal..."
Read more at: http://www.forwardprogressives.com/proof-illegal-immigration-worse-ronal..."
1
You miss the point.
The 'West' has created the mess in the Middle East since the partitioning of the Ottoman empire. More recently, we spawned ISIS with our take-down of Saddam Hussein and the marginalization of the Sunni minority.
In other words, if we hadn't stuck our foot in it these people would not have had to leave their own homes.
As Colin Powell said, and as Cheney himself once believed, if you break it you need to help fix it.
The absurdist nonsense promoted to a vote today is yet another example of America at its worst.
Yet another historical embarrassment brought to you by the GOP.
The 'West' has created the mess in the Middle East since the partitioning of the Ottoman empire. More recently, we spawned ISIS with our take-down of Saddam Hussein and the marginalization of the Sunni minority.
In other words, if we hadn't stuck our foot in it these people would not have had to leave their own homes.
As Colin Powell said, and as Cheney himself once believed, if you break it you need to help fix it.
The absurdist nonsense promoted to a vote today is yet another example of America at its worst.
Yet another historical embarrassment brought to you by the GOP.
3
Tell that to the families of the dead in Paris. Obama is a disgrace. Leave it to Obama to make the French look strong against terrorism.
8
The French are increasing their inake of Syrian refugees after 11/13
3
Any person with a European passport, including Belgium and France, unless he or she is on a watchlist, can enter the US without a visa. You can be a murderer, thief, pedophile or terrorist; show your passport, board the plane, welcome to the US. Oh yes, you will have to take off your shoes and go through an x ray machine. Big Deal.
The problem is not refugees, most of whom are fleeing the same terrorists that we are against. The problem is the billions we have given government agencies to ferret out the evil doers, and which they have wasted, and the billions wasted on endless and needless wars that caused the current misery, perpetrated by George Bush and Company.
The problem is not refugees, most of whom are fleeing the same terrorists that we are against. The problem is the billions we have given government agencies to ferret out the evil doers, and which they have wasted, and the billions wasted on endless and needless wars that caused the current misery, perpetrated by George Bush and Company.
9
So Saudi Arabia lights the fuse of radicalism and terror and the west picks up the tab in the form of refugees who will need government support the rest of their days? We can't even think we are so caught up in our own mushy emotions and the juvenile back and forth between Republicans and Democrats.
The European experience shows an initial phase of empathy and help followed by a second phase where the refugees find themselves in a culture and surrounded by people and institutions they don't understand or agree with. Many of them land in ghettos where they push back on police and the government so they can establish their own Sharia law. Mosques are built and many live in a world insulated from the country they live in. The West is identified as corrupt and evil along with racist and other charges even as many of these 1st and 2nd generation refugees receive government support. And finally young men and women find meaning in radical Islam and the destruction of the West and it's values and idealize the Middle East and Africa where they came from. That's when we become their enemy.
Our lack of critical thinking is profound.
The European experience shows an initial phase of empathy and help followed by a second phase where the refugees find themselves in a culture and surrounded by people and institutions they don't understand or agree with. Many of them land in ghettos where they push back on police and the government so they can establish their own Sharia law. Mosques are built and many live in a world insulated from the country they live in. The West is identified as corrupt and evil along with racist and other charges even as many of these 1st and 2nd generation refugees receive government support. And finally young men and women find meaning in radical Islam and the destruction of the West and it's values and idealize the Middle East and Africa where they came from. That's when we become their enemy.
Our lack of critical thinking is profound.
7
The Obama administration and his allies in the press are prone to use deceptive statistics to make an argument. The 2% figure is a prime example. According to UNHCR over 20% of the refugees are men of military age. Assuming Obama allows 10000 in that would be 2000 men of military age.
6
Refugees from the wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Gaza, West Bank, East Jerusalem and Libya are mostly Muslim and mainly the victims of European and American military action along with European American alliances with Sunni Arab Muslim tyrants, Sunni Muslim Turkish supremacists and Zionist Israeli bigots who deny the socioeconomic political educational rights of persons under their dominion. Ethnic sectarian conflicts are exacerbated by suppressing the divine natural equal certain unalienable rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness by civil secular plural egalitarian democracy.
America betraying it's values harms it's interests.
America betraying it's values harms it's interests.
2
I confess I have not gone to the Congressional website, so I'll have to rely on second-hand press reports about this legislation. Let us assume this is politics and pandering by Republicans, Let's also assume that a party whose current favorite sounds off and struts like a Sylvester Stallone character with a blond comb-over is not going to do nuance and thoughtfulness in a time of threat. It's Rambo 24/7 in GOP land.
Ok, that is the rational view and the view of people who watch C-span or read the NYT or Foreign Affairs. But most Americans don't fall into those categories. They are scared. They are whipped up by both demagogues and talk radio and the shameless hysteria of cable news and not just Murdoch's operation either. The Dems are already at their lowest electoral point in 85 or more years. Voting against this legislation, flawed though it might be, can only make them even more toxic to a wide swath of white America, the swath that still determines elections now. Elections are about winning. Losers can't determine policy and losing to the crazy party makes things even worse. Dems, vote for this bill, and hold your nose if necessary.
Ok, that is the rational view and the view of people who watch C-span or read the NYT or Foreign Affairs. But most Americans don't fall into those categories. They are scared. They are whipped up by both demagogues and talk radio and the shameless hysteria of cable news and not just Murdoch's operation either. The Dems are already at their lowest electoral point in 85 or more years. Voting against this legislation, flawed though it might be, can only make them even more toxic to a wide swath of white America, the swath that still determines elections now. Elections are about winning. Losers can't determine policy and losing to the crazy party makes things even worse. Dems, vote for this bill, and hold your nose if necessary.
1
Please invite the young men of the ages from 18-50 to live with you so that you may protect their feelings and you may preserve your righteous beliefs. Not one item in any bill being written is saying that we won't bring them in. A pause is not racist or xenophobic. An opportunity to strengthen a vetting process is the most sensible thing we can do to promote the safety of our own people. Obama's amateurish comments show he's nothing more than a community disorganizer. He has shown a total lack of understanding what the American people are demanding.
9
I really have to admire the NYT censorship. It basically does not print anyone who writes and pointedly disagrees with the editorial. The only disagreement it permits are ones that hedge and fudge around the topic. No strong ringing denunciation of Obama's open door policy for potential terrorists aka Syrian Refugees. It loves the idea that we take them in and it will bury any story when they turn out to be less than perfect.
This is in contrast to the Financial Times which does not have a censorship policy. You are free to disagree provided you don't use obscenities. The only censorship they practice is not opening up all articles to comments. But their comments are open to subscribers, not like the NYT where basically the comments are only for those who agree with the NYT.
This is in contrast to the Financial Times which does not have a censorship policy. You are free to disagree provided you don't use obscenities. The only censorship they practice is not opening up all articles to comments. But their comments are open to subscribers, not like the NYT where basically the comments are only for those who agree with the NYT.
12
Both the WSJ and WAPO have open comment threads on Op/Eds and articles provided you're a paid subscriber. Much better exchange between readers.
5
So right, Judyw.
An echo chamber if there ever was one...an echo chamber if there ever was one.
An echo chamber if there ever was one...an echo chamber if there ever was one.
1
That "complicated current process" has yielded some pretty good results.
2
And the fools go for it again. Are there no thinking skills in our government, particularly the repulsives. So, when they get a flat tire do they destroy the car. These folks would be best served by holding their tongues for at least two weeks post disaster so the minutia that they spout will settle down.
2
Regarding editorials and social-media postings which declare that no bad actors are to be found among Syrian refugees because they are, themselves, fleeing terrorism: the Syrian conflict began as a civil war pitting various factions against each other. People take sides in a civil war. Virtually every Syrian had an allegiance, be it pro-Assad/Shi'a/Alawite, pro-Sunni/ISIS/al Qaeda, pro-Hezbollah, Pro-Iran, etc. None of those allegiances is acceptable to the west, and all must be condemned. Are we to believe them all just suddenly reformed, now? How is that possible, please?
6
There is no more room in the Inn.
It would make more sense to prohibit french citizens from coming to the United States since it appears that at least 7 of the 8 terrorists were French citizens.
The list can go on: Saudi Arabia would certainly be on it as a result of the 911 attacks.
It would make more sense to prohibit french citizens from coming to the United States since it appears that at least 7 of the 8 terrorists were French citizens.
The list can go on: Saudi Arabia would certainly be on it as a result of the 911 attacks.
2
The editorial board just doesn't get it. Americans have lost confidence in Obama and his administration. Americans have lost trust in this president primarily due to his refusal to call Islamic terrorism what it is. We see that his policies have led to the instability in the ME and the subsequent refugees. We know that ISIS will attempt and probably succeed in infiltrating America posing as refugees and don't trust Obama to stop them.
6
You offer oft repeated talking points without proof or context. Claiming that others aren't as American as you is xenophobic and unAmerican.
As for, " his policies have led to the instability in the ME", you, again, offer not reasonable explanation while the Israeli paper, Haaretz, reported in August 2015, “Under its leader, Iraqi jihadi Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the Islamic State group's top command is dominated by former officers from Saddam's military and intelligence agencies” . You can blame Obama for Bremer's decision, but he didn't hire him or ignore advice that the invasion would cause this instability - the president you voted for did that.
As for, " his policies have led to the instability in the ME", you, again, offer not reasonable explanation while the Israeli paper, Haaretz, reported in August 2015, “Under its leader, Iraqi jihadi Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the Islamic State group's top command is dominated by former officers from Saddam's military and intelligence agencies” . You can blame Obama for Bremer's decision, but he didn't hire him or ignore advice that the invasion would cause this instability - the president you voted for did that.
5
What caused the mess in the Middle East?
1) partitioning and colonialism of the region following end of Ottoman empire
2) building up of strongmen in the region (Iran: Shah; Iraq: Saddam Hussein; Saudi Arabia: tacit support of the monarchy)
3) destabilization caused by Iraq invasion I and II and the tandem invasion of Afghanistan.
4) blind support for Israel
American people, such as yourself, simply 'just do not get it'. The Muslim religion says that all territorial invaders are enemies to Islam and must be expelled.
What would all the NRA gun-toting nuts do if Persians-Arabians took up permanent residence in North America?
1) partitioning and colonialism of the region following end of Ottoman empire
2) building up of strongmen in the region (Iran: Shah; Iraq: Saddam Hussein; Saudi Arabia: tacit support of the monarchy)
3) destabilization caused by Iraq invasion I and II and the tandem invasion of Afghanistan.
4) blind support for Israel
American people, such as yourself, simply 'just do not get it'. The Muslim religion says that all territorial invaders are enemies to Islam and must be expelled.
What would all the NRA gun-toting nuts do if Persians-Arabians took up permanent residence in North America?
1
@Jtati,
Obama first withdrew our military from Iraq leaving a power vacuum that ISIS filled. Obama halfheartedly initially supported Syrian rebels and then abandoned them allowing Assad to use chemical weapons and barrel bombs. This has prolonged the Syrian civil war and led directly to the refugees. He should have provided full support to the rebels, or stayed out of it altogether and allowed Assad to regain control. Obama's support of the so called Arab "spring" and the Muslim Brotherhood has led to instability across the ME fueling the Islamic terrorists and weakening our allies. It is no wonder Putin has shown such disdain to Obama and has moved in to fill the void.
As a result Americans do not trust this president.
Obama first withdrew our military from Iraq leaving a power vacuum that ISIS filled. Obama halfheartedly initially supported Syrian rebels and then abandoned them allowing Assad to use chemical weapons and barrel bombs. This has prolonged the Syrian civil war and led directly to the refugees. He should have provided full support to the rebels, or stayed out of it altogether and allowed Assad to regain control. Obama's support of the so called Arab "spring" and the Muslim Brotherhood has led to instability across the ME fueling the Islamic terrorists and weakening our allies. It is no wonder Putin has shown such disdain to Obama and has moved in to fill the void.
As a result Americans do not trust this president.
1
The great majority of Americans oppose the entry of the Syrian migrants. In the wake of mass murders of helpless civilians in Paris, the public is afraid of taking in people from a region and, possibly, belonging to a religiously oriented political movement that advocates and carries out mass murder of Europeans and Americans. That should be the end of it. Instead, the President and our self-appointed Mandarin class tells us voters with astonishing arrogance that we are unreasonable and narrow minded. Now there is opposition from our elected officials and they too are bad. We need legislation to ensure democratic process over immigration. It cannot be left to the whims of the executive branch and its circle of self-interested supporters.
9
The attitudes toward refugees has not changed one bit in the United States. Yet, I am a living witness of the generosity of this country and the opportunity that it gives us, immigrants (be it legal, refugee, asylum seeker, whatever). I am a staunch conservative but I have to point out the obvious: the refugees are not a threat. We are misdirecting our frustrations toward the "least of us." The process to become a refugee is long and very, very, very well documented and vetted. It is easier for terrorists to come on tourist visas or student visas since those visas are surprisingly easy to get if you have money in the bank (and based on what I have seen in the news, terrorists are swimming in cash). I have direct knowledge from two "US-Syrians" themselves looking to bring their families here that it is quite the process. Also, I am an avid reader of the propaganda that ISIS posts online and their sick magazine in an attempt to understand the evil upon us. It is VERY clear that they consider those fleeing "the lands of the Muslims" as traitors who deserve death. In fact, they were mocking the refugees that drowned and claimed that "Allah punished them for leaving towards the land of the Christians." Also they do not want any of these men to leave because they need soldiers. So these people are not ISIS tools. My knee jerk reaction when I see the news is to scream "protect the borders" but then I realize, protect them from whom?
6
Why is President Obama starting another war in the Middle East?
I cannot support starting that new war, unless we are going to win this time and only accept unconditional surrender from whichever Islamic nation that the President elects to attack.
We should never again accept some kind political settlement that restores governmental power to those that we defeat in battle!
Does President Obama expect US citizens to pay again WITH THEIR BLOOD AND TREASURE for that same Middle East real estate that was paid for in 1991 and then again in 2001?
Will President Obama then give it right back to the same defeated Islamic citizens again when we wimp out and even apologize for defeating their armies as each of the Bush Presidents did previously?
Are our military sons and daughters going to again be ordered to go on constant patrol as targets for the Islamic people to kill and maim without any penalty being inflicted on the local Islamic people when they do kill and maim US servicemen and servicewomen?
Are we going to once again order our military to not shoot back at the local civilians who are killing and maiming our military sons and daughters?
If there is no penalty, why then should the local Islamic people stop killing and maiming our US military sons and daughters!
I cannot support starting that new war, unless we are going to win this time and only accept unconditional surrender from whichever Islamic nation that the President elects to attack.
We should never again accept some kind political settlement that restores governmental power to those that we defeat in battle!
Does President Obama expect US citizens to pay again WITH THEIR BLOOD AND TREASURE for that same Middle East real estate that was paid for in 1991 and then again in 2001?
Will President Obama then give it right back to the same defeated Islamic citizens again when we wimp out and even apologize for defeating their armies as each of the Bush Presidents did previously?
Are our military sons and daughters going to again be ordered to go on constant patrol as targets for the Islamic people to kill and maim without any penalty being inflicted on the local Islamic people when they do kill and maim US servicemen and servicewomen?
Are we going to once again order our military to not shoot back at the local civilians who are killing and maiming our military sons and daughters?
If there is no penalty, why then should the local Islamic people stop killing and maiming our US military sons and daughters!
3
A minor technical detail: Kuwait isn't either Iraq or Syria.
One is reminded that about 30% of Republicans polled were furious about the President's doing nothing over Russia's annexation of the Crimea.
It seems that they believed it was somewhere in the Midwest.
One is reminded that about 30% of Republicans polled were furious about the President's doing nothing over Russia's annexation of the Crimea.
It seems that they believed it was somewhere in the Midwest.
1
Credibly vetting candidates for refugee status is difficult under the best conditions. Neither the current system or the supposedly much more stringent Republican sponsored Bill resolve the far greater difficulty of achieving faultless screening with tens of thousands coming out of places overtly hostile to the U.S. and or from countries immersed in profound civil chaos.
It is not a matter of “fighting global terror.” Rather it is about balancing a commitment to humanitarian action and simultaneously avoiding the grave consequences of admitting potential radicals and terrorists into our midst. It only takes a minuscule number of mistakes to provide a core cadre for multiple horrendous attacks to be carried out. The stark reality is that the impact of the Paris attacks and carnage by just ten jihades has been staggering in its scope.
It is absolutely imperative that the war in Syria end forthwith followed by the expeditious and unconditional military defeat of ISIS in both Syria and Iraq, and then a reconstruction effort in affected areas on a scale sufficient to restore civil, political and economic stability to the region.
It is not a matter of “fighting global terror.” Rather it is about balancing a commitment to humanitarian action and simultaneously avoiding the grave consequences of admitting potential radicals and terrorists into our midst. It only takes a minuscule number of mistakes to provide a core cadre for multiple horrendous attacks to be carried out. The stark reality is that the impact of the Paris attacks and carnage by just ten jihades has been staggering in its scope.
It is absolutely imperative that the war in Syria end forthwith followed by the expeditious and unconditional military defeat of ISIS in both Syria and Iraq, and then a reconstruction effort in affected areas on a scale sufficient to restore civil, political and economic stability to the region.
2
One thing that strikes me in all this soul-searching over "immigrants", is this romantic and nostalgic hackneyed notion that we are "a nation of immigrants" and therefore somehow have it in us to open are arms to everyone, regardless.
Back when my great grandparents emigrated from Norway, America was a wide open and relatively undeveloped country with large swaths of land to essential give away as homesteads . . . and in today's modern reminiscence's about immigration, it seems like much of it is somehow pretending that we still live in such a time and place. Which it ain't.
So if there's to be any realistic discussion on this matter, shouldn't at least the parameters of the current immigration environment be laid out on the table as something real and not make-believe? We all love the statue of liberty, but remember that was just a gift of a long ago and different age.
Back when my great grandparents emigrated from Norway, America was a wide open and relatively undeveloped country with large swaths of land to essential give away as homesteads . . . and in today's modern reminiscence's about immigration, it seems like much of it is somehow pretending that we still live in such a time and place. Which it ain't.
So if there's to be any realistic discussion on this matter, shouldn't at least the parameters of the current immigration environment be laid out on the table as something real and not make-believe? We all love the statue of liberty, but remember that was just a gift of a long ago and different age.
11
Americans want their country to feel like home. It is their home. The extremists don't seem to have a sense of identity when it comes to American and their insistence on there being no border enforcement, refusing to enforce immigration laws, refusal to show any restraint whatsoever to outsiders, seemingly determined to erase all borders, anything that distinguishes this country. It really does feel like that is the desire of some of the extremists. Even after getting their tails handed to them in election after election including the most recent one when voters in Oklahoma and Texas said resoundingly "ENOUGH, you are going too far," they still dont' seem to get it. Liberal is not bad. But unchecked liberalism is and it seems a lot of those on that side are way out to lunch. Common sense seems to be an elusive object to them. I am not a Republican, never have voted for a Republican in my life, but for the first time ever, I am honestly concerned that Democrats or at least extremists on that side, are dangerous for this country. Their naiveté, their aversion to any boundaries whatsoever culturally or otherwise is actually really concerning me now.
9
Why don't the Syrian refugees arm themselves and return to Syria and overthrow their Islamic government?
These people are trying to escape violent Islamic murderous religious conflict, but they will bring their Islam religion with them, and their Islam's Quran instructs true believers to cut off the heads and the fingertips of the non-believers!
Even if the refugees are not true believers, then their children might read, follow and obey the Quran!
Freedom is not free, except it is offered for free to these Syrian refugees in Europe and the USA!
Some of those among us have previously paid for Freedom in the USA, and also for most the European “Nanny State” nation’s freedom from Germany!
Why does the USA have to expend US Blood, US effort, and US Treasury to pay for the freedom of others around the world, Including Moslems that are commanded by Allah to kill us non-believers (Christians and Jews)?
What will the world do after the USA becomes bankrupt paying for all of the wars to free people in other nations?
Who paid for France's freedom from Germany during WWII, after France surrendered to Germany at the beginning of WWII and allied France with Germany against the USA and England?
These people are trying to escape violent Islamic murderous religious conflict, but they will bring their Islam religion with them, and their Islam's Quran instructs true believers to cut off the heads and the fingertips of the non-believers!
Even if the refugees are not true believers, then their children might read, follow and obey the Quran!
Freedom is not free, except it is offered for free to these Syrian refugees in Europe and the USA!
Some of those among us have previously paid for Freedom in the USA, and also for most the European “Nanny State” nation’s freedom from Germany!
Why does the USA have to expend US Blood, US effort, and US Treasury to pay for the freedom of others around the world, Including Moslems that are commanded by Allah to kill us non-believers (Christians and Jews)?
What will the world do after the USA becomes bankrupt paying for all of the wars to free people in other nations?
Who paid for France's freedom from Germany during WWII, after France surrendered to Germany at the beginning of WWII and allied France with Germany against the USA and England?
6
So, refugees are no threat? Is the NYT so distant from Boston that it forgot the Tsarnaev family were refugees? Certainly, the younger brother came as child, he grew up and killed Americans.
We took in refugees from Vietnam, Cuba, Laos, Cambodia, China, and elsewhere who were escaping Communism; and Jews from war torn Europe. These people agreed with our American ideals. The majority of Syrians do not.
The correct assistance for Syrian refugees is to set up camps in Syria to provide a place to sleep and something to eat, and give every male between 17 and 70 a rifle and a box of ammunition, point them to the enemy and tell them to go take back their country.
We took in refugees from Vietnam, Cuba, Laos, Cambodia, China, and elsewhere who were escaping Communism; and Jews from war torn Europe. These people agreed with our American ideals. The majority of Syrians do not.
The correct assistance for Syrian refugees is to set up camps in Syria to provide a place to sleep and something to eat, and give every male between 17 and 70 a rifle and a box of ammunition, point them to the enemy and tell them to go take back their country.
12
I think I remember reading that one of the Boston bombers or his brother received a grant of over 100k from the US. So, this kid got 100k or more, while there are homeless US citizens, even homeless veterans??? Something is wrong with this picture.
7
Once again, the fear-mongering Republicans are trying to thwart the entry of refugees into the United States. Having served in Iraq and Afghanistan, I feel deeply for the Syrians refugees who are looking only for a safe place to live and raise a family. We have heard a lot of rhetoric from the likes of John McCain, Lindsey Graham, Donald Trump and others but no solid solutions to the ISIS problems. The make a big clamor for "boots on the ground" - not theirs but our sons, and husbands. They will beat the drum until the body bags start coming home and then they will look to pin the action on others. The path that the president and his military advisors have chosen is a careful, thoughtful one. In my opinion, we should increase the arms, especially artillery, TOW missiles and MANPAD (Stinger-type antiaircraft missiles) to the Kurds, along with JTAC forward air controllers to direct air strikes. Perhaps now the EU will mobilize and coalition force to deploy to the Middle East, work with the Kurds to attack and cripple ISIS, then join with Turkey and Saudi Arabia to depose Assad.
28
Lot's of flaws in your thinking. First, any missiles we provide seems to always end up in the wrong hands. We need to keep the air clear of missiles from unknown parties on the ground. Second, the Kurds are not interested in taking over Syria. They just want their piece of land and for everyone to leave them alone. Point is they are not the boots on the ground that will move ISIS out.
Third, having Saudi Arabia take out Assad will only trigger Iran to dig in deeper as this is a Sunni taking out a Shia leader which Iran will not stand for. Fourth, Assad is a problem but he is not the first problem. ISIS needs to be wiped out then Assad can be shown the door perhaps to Russia. Fifth, we need to win the peace which likely means a ground force in Syria for several years to maintain security and keep out bad actors. The Sunni vs. Shia conflict needs to addressed in Syria and Iraq or this will never end.
But for the present, the boots on the ground will either come from countries that want to secure peace in Syria and stop the refugee flow or they will come from radical Sunni's who are not going to be moved by bombs from the air. So far it's been mostly the latter.
Frankly if this is the JV team there is no reason to bash anyone in political office and especially McCain for wanting to go in. He earned his stripes. The US military could stomp ISIS into a mudhole very quickly and given all the misery they are causing we either turn our head and not look or we need to act.
Third, having Saudi Arabia take out Assad will only trigger Iran to dig in deeper as this is a Sunni taking out a Shia leader which Iran will not stand for. Fourth, Assad is a problem but he is not the first problem. ISIS needs to be wiped out then Assad can be shown the door perhaps to Russia. Fifth, we need to win the peace which likely means a ground force in Syria for several years to maintain security and keep out bad actors. The Sunni vs. Shia conflict needs to addressed in Syria and Iraq or this will never end.
But for the present, the boots on the ground will either come from countries that want to secure peace in Syria and stop the refugee flow or they will come from radical Sunni's who are not going to be moved by bombs from the air. So far it's been mostly the latter.
Frankly if this is the JV team there is no reason to bash anyone in political office and especially McCain for wanting to go in. He earned his stripes. The US military could stomp ISIS into a mudhole very quickly and given all the misery they are causing we either turn our head and not look or we need to act.
1
The news reports on TV yesterday revealed that already some Syrians are using fake Greek passports to seek entry into North American by showing up at central American borders. It is only a matter of time that a determined, maniacal entity such as ISIS will exploit our porous borders to get into the country, unvetted, to do serious harm.
The undocumented entry into the US must be stemmed. Forthwith.
The undocumented entry into the US must be stemmed. Forthwith.
11
This bill serves an un-American agenda. Public policy should be guided by traditional American values of fairness, justice equality and the rule of law. If Congress is serious about stopping the flow of refugees from the Mid-East they would approve funds for safe zones there where immigration petitions could be vetted and ruled upon and where housing, food, education, medical and psychological care can also be provided until the refugees can either safely enter a 1st world nation or until they can safely return to their Mid East homes where they may start evolving as a society-maybe move into a new enlightenment period where gender equality, tolerance, individual civil liberties and the rule of law become the guiding principle. Like the Peace Corps, we could also recruit tens of thousands of young people including many underemployed young professionals to work in these safe zones while an international force forever wipes ISIS off the face of the earth so the refugees can return home.
1
I wish that we could get unbiased reporting from at least one outlet. We have shriekers on the right and the left, including the NYT. It is reasonable to take a pause to make certain that the screening process is sound. The bill does not advocate turning refugees away. However, those on the left howl "shame" and those on the right want the bill to eliminate admitting refugees altogether In fact, the bill is not based on religious preference (made clear by Speaker Ryan) and it is only meant to clarify our processes. President Obama may take that as an insult, but he too is playing partisan politics, erecting straw men every where possible. We need a meaningful discussion on how to protect and settle the refugees, including locales in the Middle East as well as abroad, and stop the useless hyperbole from the NTY and it's opposites on the far right. We need to protect our citizens. Grow up.
7
Refugees are not the enemy, just the sheep in wolves clothing. Safe zones in Syria and Iraq need to be established for the refugees. This does not mean we cannot accept some refugees as immigrants. But international policy should be set up refugee camps and repatriate as soon as possible.
5
The NYTimes recommendations are based upon a perfect vetting system, but ISIS is far too sophisticated to be unable to create appropriate false documents, and an associated data trail "verifying" those documents, to be so thwarted. The level of resources we would have to devote to detecting such invaders would drain other critical criminal investigative activities.
When will the NYTimes realize that the first priority is protecting the Homeland? The most efficient -- and only sure-fire – approach to that necessary goal is denying entry to these supposed "refugees".
I was thinking of exempting women and children from the ban, but two of the body-bomb terrorists that blew themselves up during the current police actions in France were women.
When will the NYTimes realize that the first priority is protecting the Homeland? The most efficient -- and only sure-fire – approach to that necessary goal is denying entry to these supposed "refugees".
I was thinking of exempting women and children from the ban, but two of the body-bomb terrorists that blew themselves up during the current police actions in France were women.
11
The picture accompanying this editorial is inconsistent with the content of the leader. It shows Syrian and other Arab-looking refugees showing up at the border only to find a huge fence. Did the cartoonist not know that they have to wait 24 months to be vetted before they can show up at our borders with proper documentation?
#Demagoguery
#Demagoguery
6
Any and every corporation who profits from the manufacturing of any weapons used in the conflict should be required to immediately provide food and shelter for all refugees...
Problem solved and paid for.
Problem solved and paid for.
2
This is like a lot of things in politics these days just a distraction. Does it really matter that much either way if the US accepts 10 thousand refugees out of millions. What would be much more helpful is sending money to support the refugee camps were the vast majority of refugees are or negotiating safe zones in syria. The kurdish north seems pretty safe and maybe some of the refugees could support the fight. Ultimately I think the US policy of "Assad must go" (not really sure why this was the case except maybe Obama wanted a proxy war with Russia) is partly to blame for the current situation and so I support supporting the refugees.
3
The plight of the Syrian refugees seemed newsworthy two months ago, when ABC News rolled out extended coverage:
ABC News Announces Special Coverage on the Front Line of Refugee Crisis
"This is one of the most important stories of our generation," said ABC News President James Goldston. "We hope to give our viewers a deeper look into what it is like to be torn from your community in the face of devastating war and to give voice to the refugees who feel they have no other option but to put their lives in danger to save themselves and their families. This day of special programming continues our commitment to cover this story now and into the many days ahead."
http://abcnews.go.com/Press_Release/abc-news-announces-special-coverage-...
Since the Paris attacks and the resulting hysteria, however, ABC News has been conspicuously silent on the plight of those Syrian refugees. Ratings, it seems, matter more than properly portraying the refugees in a sympathetic light.
ABC News Announces Special Coverage on the Front Line of Refugee Crisis
"This is one of the most important stories of our generation," said ABC News President James Goldston. "We hope to give our viewers a deeper look into what it is like to be torn from your community in the face of devastating war and to give voice to the refugees who feel they have no other option but to put their lives in danger to save themselves and their families. This day of special programming continues our commitment to cover this story now and into the many days ahead."
http://abcnews.go.com/Press_Release/abc-news-announces-special-coverage-...
Since the Paris attacks and the resulting hysteria, however, ABC News has been conspicuously silent on the plight of those Syrian refugees. Ratings, it seems, matter more than properly portraying the refugees in a sympathetic light.
2
Wow. Crazy town. The vast majority of 'refugees' going to Europe are young men. We can't effectively vet them. ISIS has said, they literally told us, that they will use the refugee process to infiltrate terror to the West. They are a group who has no compunction about beheading, crucifying, burning people alive in cages and bombing restaurants and planes. Why in the world would we welcome these people?!?!? Why take that risk. We can build nice refugee centers for them in the middle east, we can coerce other middle eastern countries to take them in. There are lost of ways that we can help the refugees without bringing them over here and taking that risk.
http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Syrians-Arrested-Trying-to-Cross-Texas-...
Ultimately, the Muslim nations need to figure this out. The West cannot take in their whole populations. They need to, themselves, go after ISIS and kill them.
http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Syrians-Arrested-Trying-to-Cross-Texas-...
Ultimately, the Muslim nations need to figure this out. The West cannot take in their whole populations. They need to, themselves, go after ISIS and kill them.
10
I would like to know what you would have told Bobby Kennedy's widow on the night he was assassinated. Would you have told her, for example, that her husband's death was just "collateral damage", and that refugees should be admitted just because they were hungry and cold?
Some of the children you would so readily admit will grow up to be angry young men who hate the USA. Look at the experience of Europe. Look at the experience of Canada, which admitted the al Kadhr family as "refugees". Look at your own experience with the Somalis, hundreds of which have returned to Somalia to join al Shabab.
If you admit hundreds of thousands of refugees without adequate screening many of them will grow up to be angry young men who will harm the USA and spit on its ideals, who will murder and maim to their heart's content. If you do this, may the wailing of the widows the new militants create echo in your ears forever--that is all you will deserve.
To my mind, President Obama should join with the Republicans to craft a tight screening program that will minimize the possibility of those with militant ideas entering the USA. And Justin Trudeau should craft his own plan in a similar fashion.
Some of the children you would so readily admit will grow up to be angry young men who hate the USA. Look at the experience of Europe. Look at the experience of Canada, which admitted the al Kadhr family as "refugees". Look at your own experience with the Somalis, hundreds of which have returned to Somalia to join al Shabab.
If you admit hundreds of thousands of refugees without adequate screening many of them will grow up to be angry young men who will harm the USA and spit on its ideals, who will murder and maim to their heart's content. If you do this, may the wailing of the widows the new militants create echo in your ears forever--that is all you will deserve.
To my mind, President Obama should join with the Republicans to craft a tight screening program that will minimize the possibility of those with militant ideas entering the USA. And Justin Trudeau should craft his own plan in a similar fashion.
8
Traditional vetting of prospective immigrants will not protect their host countries because it does not consider the future risk that they represent.
An intelligent vetting process would attempt to predict their probability of successful integration into a host society.
It is very likely that an "indifferent immigrant" will become radicalized if they will not (or cannot) assimilate into the culture of their new host country. If they live in isolated ghettos, never learning the new language, lack marketable skills, and reject/resent western values then they are ripe for radicalization.
As a simple example, admitting poorly educated, low skill, Muslim men invites disaster. They are misfits for a modern economy. France's ghettos are hot beds of crime and terrorism because they are full of immigrants that meet this profile.
An intelligent vetting process would attempt to predict their probability of successful integration into a host society.
It is very likely that an "indifferent immigrant" will become radicalized if they will not (or cannot) assimilate into the culture of their new host country. If they live in isolated ghettos, never learning the new language, lack marketable skills, and reject/resent western values then they are ripe for radicalization.
As a simple example, admitting poorly educated, low skill, Muslim men invites disaster. They are misfits for a modern economy. France's ghettos are hot beds of crime and terrorism because they are full of immigrants that meet this profile.
6
Re keeping out young healthy men but letting in women and children -- aren't such men most likely the fathers, husbands, and older brothers, and isn't it natural that they'd accompany their families when trekking from one country to another?
Moreover, this situation presents a great opportunity: when the families of such men are safely in America, the men may be more willing to go home (if home is Syria or Iraq) and fight. And, to put it directly, with their families here, these men would know which country's interests are most aligned with their own.
Moreover, this situation presents a great opportunity: when the families of such men are safely in America, the men may be more willing to go home (if home is Syria or Iraq) and fight. And, to put it directly, with their families here, these men would know which country's interests are most aligned with their own.
1
To be accurate, refugees from war aren't necessarily the enemy. Given that we are at war with Islamic terrorists, many of whom are Syrian, prudence and common sense dictate that we take every precaution to avoid admitting terrorists under the guise of refugees. After all at least some of the Islamic terrorists involved in last week's massacre in Paris were purportedly "refugees."
5
So when will Republicans stop jumping through hoops with their anti immigrant edicts and endless investigations of Hillary Clinton for the benefit of their warped base and start tending to the people's business. I say unleash an omnibus Justice Department investigation of these moral misfits.
1
Most people with any common sense would prefer to defer any immigration until this administration can come up with a better vetting method. While we may normally like to have immigrants unfortunately, we do not live in a "normal" period of time.
4
What does the dear Editorial Board have against steps that might protect the lives and property of American citizens?
Are we required to take everyone who claims to be a "refugee". or are we allowed to exercise some discretion?
After all, the U.S. Constitution is not a suicide pact.
If we decide to let all in, I move that a fair number of these immigrants be relocated to the Hamptons. That should reveal just how hypocritical the Times' Editorial Board really is.
Are we required to take everyone who claims to be a "refugee". or are we allowed to exercise some discretion?
After all, the U.S. Constitution is not a suicide pact.
If we decide to let all in, I move that a fair number of these immigrants be relocated to the Hamptons. That should reveal just how hypocritical the Times' Editorial Board really is.
8
Put aside the security issues- real or imagined- surrounding recent Syrian and Iraqi refugees and focus on the real shame in our immigration process; the slow-walking of visa applications from Iraqi and Afghan translators who, at great personal risk, helped the US military. These individuals are being stymied by the Special Immigrant Visa (SIV) program that caps visas for 2015 and 2016 at 4,000 total, despite the fact that over 11,000 people are in the application process.
Why would you argue that refugees from Syria and Iraq be admitted immediately because the vetting "process can take 18 months to two years for each person" when have taken much longer to process the visa applications for former translators? And why should we admit any new refugees until we have admitted all former translators who want to emigrate to the US?
By all means have a debate on the proper way to treat new refugees, but there should be no debate on the proper way to treat those who helped the US military and now want admission to the US; fast-track their applications and lift the arbitrary caps.
read more at: http://fee.org/anythingpeaceful/our-immigration-system-is-killing-our-al...
Why would you argue that refugees from Syria and Iraq be admitted immediately because the vetting "process can take 18 months to two years for each person" when have taken much longer to process the visa applications for former translators? And why should we admit any new refugees until we have admitted all former translators who want to emigrate to the US?
By all means have a debate on the proper way to treat new refugees, but there should be no debate on the proper way to treat those who helped the US military and now want admission to the US; fast-track their applications and lift the arbitrary caps.
read more at: http://fee.org/anythingpeaceful/our-immigration-system-is-killing-our-al...
2
Unfortunately it appears that most of those involved in the recent Paris attack were actually French or Belgian citizens and not refugees, Should we prohibit people from those countries from coming here too?
2
If the shoe [or vest] fits...
4
Ten percent of the Syrian population is Christian, but less than three percent of refugees admitted here are Christian. Is tis the result of the vetting process?
2
So....we precipitate the crisis in the Middle East (Iraq invasion) creating ISIS via Sunni estrangement, go on to mindless destabilization in other countries (Libya and Syria) and we end up with a mess (Syrian refugees) that Republicans (the primary idiots behind all of this) want to wash their hands of.
As best I can tell, the GOP is the party of adolescents in foreign policy, something they demonstrate again and again every time they open their mouths.
These are exactly the same type of folks who sent Jewish refugees back into the hands of the Nazis just prior to and during the early stages of WWII.
As best I can tell, the GOP is the party of adolescents in foreign policy, something they demonstrate again and again every time they open their mouths.
These are exactly the same type of folks who sent Jewish refugees back into the hands of the Nazis just prior to and during the early stages of WWII.
2
We already know what happened when we welcomed refugee Chechen brothers Dzhokhar Tsarnaev and Tamerlan Tsarnaev into the USA and that was just two so-called refugees who were poorly screened. Six people died (one from being shot) and some 280 were injured when the Tsarnaev brother's pressure cooker bombs were detonated at the Boston Marathon. Countless other terrorist attempts have been thwarted.
Bringing thousands of poorly screened immigrants into our country from terrorist strongholds makes no sense. They are not just "widows and orphans." Many of those immigrants may be angry young men who've been battle hardened and whose culture and beliefs will never adopt ours. Some of those Paris murderers were home-grown.
Bringing thousands of poorly screened immigrants into our country from terrorist strongholds makes no sense. They are not just "widows and orphans." Many of those immigrants may be angry young men who've been battle hardened and whose culture and beliefs will never adopt ours. Some of those Paris murderers were home-grown.
5
We must welcome families seeking resettlement, because if we turn these people away, the terrorists will have changed who and what we are. The U.S. has always projected strength and leadership to the world, how pitiful we will be sniveling in a corner, frightened of small children. This embarrasses each and every one of us.
2
Ok, we get it: you think this batch of refugees might be legit.
Are the agencies checking them out the same ones who let Nazis into the country? Are they doing a better job? I sure hope so because we seem to have a very hard time getting rid of the bad ones once they get here.
Are the agencies checking them out the same ones who let Nazis into the country? Are they doing a better job? I sure hope so because we seem to have a very hard time getting rid of the bad ones once they get here.
2
If this keeps up we will eventually understand who the new enemy of the American way of life really really has become.
It is us!
It is us!
1
Shamefully, it does in fact reflect who many Americans are -- reflexive and xenophobic -- people who do not seem to remember their history of times not long past when asylum seekers were turned away and sent to their deaths. Conveniently forgotten is their Judeo-Christian moral command to not merely accept the other, but to welcome them and to take them in as consistent with loving God and loving neighbor. It seems that the GOP brand of Judeo-Christian morality is only brandished these days to exclude, to find other humans unworthy of existing upon them, and to prey upon the fears of unthinking citizens. Syrian refugees are only their latest target.
2
Has there been any indication that a Syrian refugee has been involved in a terrorist attack anywhere?
How did this disconnect get started?
A citizen of France or Belgium who went to Syria to join ISIS is not the same thing as a Syrian refugee. We could be so focused on the possibility of refugees as the enemy we will miss the enemy standing in front of us.
How did this disconnect get started?
A citizen of France or Belgium who went to Syria to join ISIS is not the same thing as a Syrian refugee. We could be so focused on the possibility of refugees as the enemy we will miss the enemy standing in front of us.
2
Just like protecting us from voter fraud this incredibly shameful and chickenshht political stunt just furthers fear and mistrust. It too is a fraud tbat preys on people who lack understanding of why our nation was founded. Our nation used to be known as the land of the free and the home of the brave. It is pathetic the lack of bravery shown by these Republicans. Heartless and gutless every one.
2
Meanwhile, in the real world:
New York City: Islamic State Group Propaganda Video Makes Threats Against City, Authorities Say
The video shows images of New York streets and landmarks spliced with clips of suicide bombers preparing for attacks. “We will remain at a heightened state of vigilance,” the NYPD said in a statement.
New York City: Islamic State Group Propaganda Video Makes Threats Against City, Authorities Say
The video shows images of New York streets and landmarks spliced with clips of suicide bombers preparing for attacks. “We will remain at a heightened state of vigilance,” the NYPD said in a statement.
1
Whenever a mass shooting occurs in the US, Republicans swiftly point out that a handful of bad people with guns do not represent all gun owners.
On what grounds is that logic inapplicable here?
On what grounds is that logic inapplicable here?
4
It's painful to see the delusion that infects many Americans as witnessed in some comments. They suggest that Syrians should fight for their country. How? As part of some unspecified Syrian group or in the US armed forces. Fight for whom against whom? Ally with Russia and Assad or with ISIS and Saudi Arabia? Or with one of the anti-Assad anti-ISIS groups?
The world is complex, not organized on Disney principles. Not all problems have solutions that we're prepared to embrace.
The world is complex, not organized on Disney principles. Not all problems have solutions that we're prepared to embrace.
1
Let's review for a moment. The terrorists that flew those planes on 9/11 were vetted. Those terrorists that bombed the Boston Marathon were vetted. Some of terrorists that were responsible for shooting and setting off the bombs in Paris were vetted. ISIS has stated that they will infiltrate their terrorists into the refugee migration. The refugees that are flowing from Syria and the Middle East essentially have little or no paperwork. Those that do might have paperwork prepared by ISIS. As the FBI director has stated, there is no useful database to check the background of the refugees. Gee, what could possibly go wrong.
3
Do any of the commenters realize how tiny and slow this US effort to bring in Syrian refugees is, relative to the magnitude of the crisis and what other much smaller countries are doing? It makes all the screaming by the US islamophobes even more ridiculous. We are supposed to bring in 25,000 Syrian refugees in the next few months in Canada, a campaign promise by the newly elected PM. Yes, many Canadians are protesting that he intends to keep this promise and joining the anti-immigrant hysteria in the U.S. But today the lead story in Montreal is that the refugee resettlement agencies are overwhelmed with offers to help.
1
If only The Editorial Board actually knew who the enemies were and could identify them. It cannot. Less sanctimonious grandstanding from The Editorial Board and greater concern for US safety would be in order.
10
Why do you have so little faith in the Dept of Homeland security and law enforcement to protect us ?
We spend billions to do exactly this job, and I trust them to do it.
You sound like Christie, who can't understand that just because he was unable to vet and manage his own deputies, that it's impossible.
Tell me, what's the ratio of terrorist attacks by refugees / refugees ?
Now tell me what's the ratio of terrorist attack by Iraq War vets / Iraq War vets ?
The latter is higher, but I don't think we should expel Iraq War vets, just because they are more likely to commit terrorist acts than refugees. Do you ?
We spend billions to do exactly this job, and I trust them to do it.
You sound like Christie, who can't understand that just because he was unable to vet and manage his own deputies, that it's impossible.
Tell me, what's the ratio of terrorist attacks by refugees / refugees ?
Now tell me what's the ratio of terrorist attack by Iraq War vets / Iraq War vets ?
The latter is higher, but I don't think we should expel Iraq War vets, just because they are more likely to commit terrorist acts than refugees. Do you ?
2
We, The People are a bunch of hypocrites. We'll malign them for doing something or crucify them for doing nothing.
2
Pitiable discussion from idealogues lefta and right. Of course refugee families escaping death should be admitted. Of course extensive screening regardless of expense should be used to prevent terrorist entry. Our country is so polarized that it will become the undoing of the greatest republic in history.
3
Terrorism is all about spreading fear. It has certainly worked in the US. Exactly the response ISIS was hoping for!
2
Let's face it, for Republicans, anyone who is not one of them, a relative, or a pay-to-play friend is an enemy.
...........small minds consciously and progressively deconstructing a nation and setting back human civilization in the process.
This brand of 'right' just isn't right.
...........small minds consciously and progressively deconstructing a nation and setting back human civilization in the process.
This brand of 'right' just isn't right.
6
Radx28 your comment epitomizes liberal debate. Simply attack and demonize your opponent while totally ignoring the facts at hand. Did you actually read the bill? It's only 4 pages so, unlike the ACA, it should be easy to see what's in the bill even before we pass it. It simply says that that Homeland Security, the FBI and National Intelligence Agency have to perform an adequate background check on refugees from Iraq and Syria to assure they don't pose a security threat. That the Inspctor General will review the process annually to ensure the process is adequate. And that monthly reports will be give to appropriate congressional committees on who's coming in and who is being denied entry. That's it... 4 pages. Period. And this is somehow "progressively deconstructing a nation and setting back human civilization"??? Seriously. You can't actually believe that. Again, typical liberal emotional, factless, baseless attacks being passed off as legitimate debate.
2
Are we all so ignorant that we want to repeat the essence of Nazi Germany and the treatment of another oppressed religious and ethnic group? If so, then I am ashamed to be an "American". Unless we are 100% full-blooded Native American (another oppressed ethnic group), then face the fact that our forefathers and relatives immigrated to the US looking for a more hopeful future. Is that any different than what these refugees want? This country was founded on the precepts of religious and political freedom. To now act in a way that is the antithesis of what this country stands for is both hypocritical and morally repugnant.
5
Delta is ready when you are.
1
This bill is not about improved security vetting. It is about putting a chokehold on the refugee process altogether. The current vetting is intense and thorough. When I think about all the things that put my life in danger, refugees do not even make the list. Alienated Americans with easy access to guns are much more frightening to me.
5
Refugees from the war who want to come and blow us up ARE the enemy. I have no faith that this administration can discern the difference between refugees who are truly victims and those who wish to do us harm.
9
Until somebody can prove that any of these Syrian refugees will not pursue jihad and terrorism against America, not one should be admitted to our country. Facts somehow elude those bleeding heart liberals who are all to willing to trust their fellow man. Fact: 75% of the would be refugees are men in the age group that pursues radical Islam. Fact: The vast majority of these refugees have no documentary evidence of birth, income, work history, or past criminal activity. How can you vet someone without that documentation. Fact: If allowed into America how will these refugees survive? who will hire them or house them? And who will track their movements and actions? Trump is correct again: Keep them in Syria and establish a safe haven for them. No matter what the cost is will be cheaper than relocating them to America and paying for all that entails.
5
It isn't clear why the Times believes that the current process for vetting refugees is perfect and needs no enhancement. Given what just happened in Paris, why not try to improve it? The one thing we know from this editorial is that the heads of the FBI etc are too busy to look at the applications from refugees. This is not inspiring confidence.
7
The bill on capitol hill is purely political, make no mistake. I don't recall Republican governors refusing middle eastern refugees, over 700,000 since 2001.
But we are in a presidential election cycle. And any way they can instill fear in the masses, they will do. Any way they can tear Obama down, they will do it.
It's just more bloviated nonsense from a do-nothing, know-nothing Republican congress. What a surprise.
But we are in a presidential election cycle. And any way they can instill fear in the masses, they will do. Any way they can tear Obama down, they will do it.
It's just more bloviated nonsense from a do-nothing, know-nothing Republican congress. What a surprise.
4
So Refugees aren't the enemy. Talk about the most colossal straw-man argument in the history of politics... No one is say refugees are the enemy: they are saying the enemy can hide among the refugees and it's impossible to tell them apart. Suppose some madman broke into the M&M factor and mixed in 1000 M&Ms poisoned with arsenic. Nobody is saying all M&Ms are poisoned. We're saying it's impossible to tell them apart by looking at them. And just because the screening process is "complicated" doesn't mean it's effective. The bill halts immigration until we can develop a screening process more reliable than asking if they intend to commit terrorism and hoping they tell the truth.
5
Well it's not as ridiculous as the Bush / Cruz, "just let in the Christian refugees" straw-man.
If a terrorist can pose as a refugee, he or she can just as easily pose as a Christian one.
If a terrorist can pose as a refugee, he or she can just as easily pose as a Christian one.
2
Again the NYT and its liberal readers don't care if one US citizen is murdered by the Muslim radicals, just to preserve their perverse ideas. It is common sense to prohibit these individuals from entering the US. Why are they refugees? Because Obama refuses to put boots on the ground. Obama is looking more and more like Jimmy Carter. He is finally being questioned by the Media and more importantly by the French.
7
How many US soldiers / citizens who died for a phony war in 2003 were you concerned about ?
Did you ever pause to consider that a refugee who's refused in the US and ends up in Europe is much more likely to be radicalized than if they are accepted here ?
Did you ever pause to consider that a refugee who's refused in the US and ends up in Europe is much more likely to be radicalized than if they are accepted here ?
1
Looking at the Republican community, one shouldn't be surprised by what Ryan is pushing through in the House. The latest RealClearPolitics polls of Republicans show that some 70% of them support four candidates: Trump, Carson, Rubio and Cruz. Two idiots and two Batista-Cubans each ready with their various grenades. Where are the serious candidates, the thoughtful, the knowledgeable. Where are the Earl Warrens, the Bob Taft, the Ike Eisenhower. Are the current favorites the best the Republicans can offer to the Nation?
1
This is a foolish bill, unworthy of us and ill conceived. Bad guys come in all backgrounds and religions. Instead of shutting our borders, lets do a better job of selecting, training and informing those who protect our borders. And, lets help the world do a better job of sharing intelligence so that when bad guys try to enter the US (or anywhere else) we are more likely to stop them.
2
...but neither are they necessarily friends. while this editorial seems largely in line with facts, the title is a generalization that cannot be supported. a number of refugees have, in fact, gone abroad to support terrorist organizations and are regarded as threats. Let's be rational, not advocates. Most refuges, immigrants, native-borns are probably harmless, some of each are harmful, period.
3
For every terrorist who would try to sneak in there would be thousands of innocent victims of war who would, if history offers any examples, become truly loyal and grateful Americans, if given the chance. Draconian measures, based on fear, would favor the enemy, who would seek to radicalize those who we would abandon.
3
We know Syrian terrorists are in this country and we must stop more from getting in. Syrians have been arrested at the Texas Border, in Honduras = they must be deported or put in detention camps.
We should not be fooled by the fact that there are large numbers of women. Women are suicide bombers. If you have bothered to read the story coming out of Paris of the Saint-Denis siege, you would see that one of the terrorists who blew herself up with an explosive vest was a young women.
So any articles like this one that pretends that taking in women and children means that they aren't terrorist, are living in the Obama fantasy land. We should have learned from events in Syria and Europe that women and children are often terrorists and are used because they know that naive west is apt to take them in.
Ask the Israeli if women and children can attack you and kill you and you will find the answer if yes.
The Bill before Congress on Syrian refugees is a good one and should be passed. Better still we should NOT resettle these people, but better to put them in refugees camps as opposed to letting them disappear into the US - not to be heard of until they blow you up.
We should not be fooled by the fact that there are large numbers of women. Women are suicide bombers. If you have bothered to read the story coming out of Paris of the Saint-Denis siege, you would see that one of the terrorists who blew herself up with an explosive vest was a young women.
So any articles like this one that pretends that taking in women and children means that they aren't terrorist, are living in the Obama fantasy land. We should have learned from events in Syria and Europe that women and children are often terrorists and are used because they know that naive west is apt to take them in.
Ask the Israeli if women and children can attack you and kill you and you will find the answer if yes.
The Bill before Congress on Syrian refugees is a good one and should be passed. Better still we should NOT resettle these people, but better to put them in refugees camps as opposed to letting them disappear into the US - not to be heard of until they blow you up.
4
The Republican Party actions are downright disgraceful. The culture of fear which festers through the veins of that party is against everything Americans stand for.
Without instilling a fear of terrorism and immigration Republicans don’t win Presidencies.
Reactionary politicians who are shouting “close the boarders” are of the worst lot, they are a vile type who thinks only of their own comfort.
Syrians women and children make up more than 80 percent who those that are fleeing,thousands have be raped by Isis.
If ISIS was chasing your Mother would you close your door?
This modern day group of lackeys in the Republican party actually like to be called “Christian”, this is the biggest hoax of the century.
Without instilling a fear of terrorism and immigration Republicans don’t win Presidencies.
Reactionary politicians who are shouting “close the boarders” are of the worst lot, they are a vile type who thinks only of their own comfort.
Syrians women and children make up more than 80 percent who those that are fleeing,thousands have be raped by Isis.
If ISIS was chasing your Mother would you close your door?
This modern day group of lackeys in the Republican party actually like to be called “Christian”, this is the biggest hoax of the century.
3
If the majority of refugees are women who have been mothers all their lives, their children, and elderly relatives, then who among them will be working and supporting the family financially while in the US? And if years of job training and education, housing, and health care will be needed, who will pay for that? Where is the money going to come from, specifically? It's not as though the US never takes in immigrants. Actually, we absorb more than any other country, but the law of supply and demand has not been repealed, and an ever expanding workforce DOES reduce wages and make life more difficult for those already here. It is no longer 1915, and resources of every kind are limited.
2
The last thing that we need now is to allow more unskilled people who do not share our values into this country. I'm sure that most are fine but I'm positive that some are not and they will slip thru the "vetting" process. We don't need it.
10
Your editors write: "This is a frightening time for Europe, and for the United States. Should this bill reach his desk, President Obama is more than likely to veto it because it has little to do with fighting global terror." And you can't be more ignorant. Keeping terrorists hiding among refugees coming to the U.S. has EVERYTHING to do with fighting global terror.
7
Ok so deny entry to the "2% single males of combat age."'
Will that satisfy the NYT editorial board and those writing in in agreement? Or is it "all or none" - so typical of politics in this country.
Will that satisfy the NYT editorial board and those writing in in agreement? Or is it "all or none" - so typical of politics in this country.
5
This represents much of the same NIMBY-ist attitude that has marked American sentiment for years. How far has New Orleans come from Katrina? How about NYC? What's the literacy rate in Boston compared to Mobile? How many domestic terrorists have committed atrocities on American soil versus foreign terrorists? I'm guessing the vetting process for refugees is a lot more rigorous than the one for foreign workers, short stay visitors or American citizens born abroad. Given the people Europe is accommodating, the question should be why America isn't doing more?
3
I have a notion that one proposal would get support from both left and right:
Allow the refugees in, but resettle them at places like 1600 Pennsylvania Ave, or, next to the Clinton estate, or, next to Nancy Pelosi's home, or, next to Harry Reid's home. See, we can agree on something that allows the left to bear the cost of any possible danger to Americans from stealth refugees who are actually ISIS.
Allow the refugees in, but resettle them at places like 1600 Pennsylvania Ave, or, next to the Clinton estate, or, next to Nancy Pelosi's home, or, next to Harry Reid's home. See, we can agree on something that allows the left to bear the cost of any possible danger to Americans from stealth refugees who are actually ISIS.
7
Giving shelter to traumatized refugees is not totally without risk but it's the right thing to do. America, "home of the brave"? We'll soon find out.
4
Brave with other people's lives, you mean.
1
It's amazing to me how many of the commentators equate the present question of accepting large numbers of immigrants from Syria with the tradition of American largesse vis a vis the earlier waves of immigrants. The Germans,the Irish, the Jews, the Latinos, the Italians al came to theses shores to work and to contribute to American life and culture. No one was concerned about terror attacks on our country. The present situation is different. After years of anti American propaganda in the Muslim world and the spread of violent terrorism by Islamic Jihadists throughout the world,how are we to be sure that even one won't embed in the immigrant flow? It only takes a few to wreak havoc and destruction as the Parisians and countless others have learned.
Our government has the responsibility of ensuring our safety. If it takes closing the border while we wage a war to destruction of ISIS then so be it.
Watch the hand wringing by these very same contributors to this paper when G-d forbid the first suicide bomber hits a big city. And it will unless we remain vigilant. The notion that we must preserve our freedoms even at the cost of reduced scrutiny of potential terrorists will serve no purpose if we are dead.
Our government has the responsibility of ensuring our safety. If it takes closing the border while we wage a war to destruction of ISIS then so be it.
Watch the hand wringing by these very same contributors to this paper when G-d forbid the first suicide bomber hits a big city. And it will unless we remain vigilant. The notion that we must preserve our freedoms even at the cost of reduced scrutiny of potential terrorists will serve no purpose if we are dead.
16
I do believe you have forgotten about the first suicide bombers who have already hit America?
In fact, anti-immigrant hysteria in the 1920s was motivated in large part by the fear of Bolshevik revolution and earlier examples by the fear generated by anarchist outrages.
Given that none of the 750,000 post 9/11 refugees have committed such an act, we have an acceptable level of safety already. No one is talking about reducing the level of scrutiny in the current vetting process.
Given that none of the 750,000 post 9/11 refugees have committed such an act, we have an acceptable level of safety already. No one is talking about reducing the level of scrutiny in the current vetting process.
2
Your point of reference to the previous influx of immigrants, dating back before the invention of the telephone, is a non sequitur.
The New World was truly a land of opportunity from sea to shining sea. America was born; one nation, under God. Built under the ideals of freedom and justice for all; sadly, that is the America we live in today. The dichotomy is vast.
The New World was truly a land of opportunity from sea to shining sea. America was born; one nation, under God. Built under the ideals of freedom and justice for all; sadly, that is the America we live in today. The dichotomy is vast.
you write "such individuals more often already live here, or they come via illegal means.".
Well, how about we screen out individuals more carefully before we grant them the right to live here? That is what this bill is about.
How about we patrol and fence the border more, physically and electronically. Please, people, let the police and intelligence agencies do what they need to do to keep us safe.
Well, how about we screen out individuals more carefully before we grant them the right to live here? That is what this bill is about.
How about we patrol and fence the border more, physically and electronically. Please, people, let the police and intelligence agencies do what they need to do to keep us safe.
5
Already coming over the southern border. no vetting there and they will likely be released with a hearing date that up to 80% ignore with little to no legal conseqeunces. Inevitably, they would take a page out of the illegal immigrant book.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/19/us-mideast-crisis-usa-texas-id...
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/19/us-mideast-crisis-usa-texas-id...
1
I couldn't agree more with your editorial up to the point where you believe that only the 2% single males of combat age are our only threat. Your naïveté surprises me.
2
This republican bill likely does just what the law for refugees already does, but by passing this bill the republicans can claim they are the ones doing something to make Americans safe. Its all about perception to the voters.
2
The Republican yet again reveal their fact-aversion, abject hypocrisy and vile hatefulness — all so they can leverage the carnage in Paris into a political issue they can use to stoke their base. This is politics at its lowest.
Why Syrian refugees? Since most, if not all, of the attackers were French and Belgian citizens, shouldn't the Republicans call for banning all French and Belgian citizens from entering the US? Or, since most of the 9/11 attackers were Saudi Arabian citizens, shouldn't the Republicans call for banning all Saudi Arabians from entering the US? Or, since Timothy McVeigh was a US citizen, shouldn't the Republicans call for...?
No, the Republicans won't/don't do any of that because it would be so over-the-top absurd and objectionable (although a more "logical" application of their current ridiculous logic). Instead, they scapegoat Syrian refugees for political purposes who, despite suffering through a horrific civil war for the last several years, don't have any constituency in the US.
Chris Christie revealed best the utter heartlessness of the Republican Party when he recently said that even a 5-year-old orphan from Syria should not be allowed into the US. I'd love to see Christie and his disappointing Republican colleagues say that, on camera preferably, directly to a parent-less child from Syria wanting to escape the death and destruction there. That's the image in my mind of today's Republican Party (full disclosure: I was once a Republican).
Why Syrian refugees? Since most, if not all, of the attackers were French and Belgian citizens, shouldn't the Republicans call for banning all French and Belgian citizens from entering the US? Or, since most of the 9/11 attackers were Saudi Arabian citizens, shouldn't the Republicans call for banning all Saudi Arabians from entering the US? Or, since Timothy McVeigh was a US citizen, shouldn't the Republicans call for...?
No, the Republicans won't/don't do any of that because it would be so over-the-top absurd and objectionable (although a more "logical" application of their current ridiculous logic). Instead, they scapegoat Syrian refugees for political purposes who, despite suffering through a horrific civil war for the last several years, don't have any constituency in the US.
Chris Christie revealed best the utter heartlessness of the Republican Party when he recently said that even a 5-year-old orphan from Syria should not be allowed into the US. I'd love to see Christie and his disappointing Republican colleagues say that, on camera preferably, directly to a parent-less child from Syria wanting to escape the death and destruction there. That's the image in my mind of today's Republican Party (full disclosure: I was once a Republican).
4
Let's start by having each member of Congress tested. Many of them are a threat to the constitution. They take an oath to defend the constitution against its enemies, but they give themselves a pass on that. In parallel, test governors. Too many seem to think they have borders they can close. There is no depth they'll not sink to. How can we convince them to stop digging? A tax strike?
1
Where was the exact location of the President of France at the time of these attacks? Seems more likely that the purpose was to eliminate a leader rather than citizens.....
I don't see why ISIS would NOT want to send terrorists into countries that are at war with it. What comes to mind is Castro permitting Cubans to emigrate to the U.S., but arranging for some of the refugees to be people released from jails and mental health facilities. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariel_boatlift
2
I'm no more worried that a terrorist would slip through the immigration screen than McCaul or Cruz is. Does the Ed. Board think their readers are so obtuse?
We don't trust this Administration.
We don't trust this Administration.
3
I want to point out that the perpetrators of the Boston Marathon bombing were welcomed as refugees to liberal Cambridge where they were given welfare payments, food stamps, and housing. They went to the highest funded and diverse high school in Massachusetts and were popular, NOT marginalized. The older brother married a pretty, American girl. They were still radicalized. They still felt Muslim and extremism was where they found meaning.
10
The obvious bravery and action of the French people and their government should serve as an example to the people of the United States and their fear mongering representatives that a country can exhibit bravery that promotes safety. Their handling of Muslim unrest will need to be addressed more comprehensively, however they are willing to both fight DAESH and take in refugees from Syrua. The quick action of their police has likewise overwhelmed and killed the organizer of these dastardly attacks.
We are entering a very dark period in American history. I am especially disturbed by the use of words like "pause" and "delay". What these words really say is that Republicans want NO refugees! There are no clear guidelines in these bills in Congress on what vetting means and I believe it is intentional. America is dying.
America is not "dying". We don't need anymore people until we can care for our own.
1
We have accepted refugees from all over the world including Cuba. Should we have kept out the Cubans because among them were communist spies dedicated to the destruction of our democracy? If so we wouldn't have to deal with the likes of Cruz or Rubio (who are among the first to shut the door that they entered by). Hypocrisy they name is Republican!
4
Not sure who is worse, the Cowards' Caliphate of ISIS or the cowards elected to Congress or the cowards who elected them. Makes me thankful for a president with a brain and the ability to think things through before speaking.
5
It's May 1939 and Captain Gustav Schröder has sailed from Hamburg with 908 Jewish refugees on the "St. Louis" bound for Havana. His passengers are jubilant, ready to embrace a new life, a return to safety & sanity, and -- freedom! But this is not to be, at least not in Cuba.
Upon arrival in Havana Harbor, Cuban officials inform the "St. Louis" that the refugees' visas have been retroactively invalidated. Captain Schröder has no choice except return to Hamburg and surrender his passengers to their fate.
He does not accept this. He takes them instead to Florida. Refused landing by U.S. officials in Florida, he sails for Canada, but the "St. Louis" is again turned away. Apparently defeated, Schröder has no choice but to return to Germany.
But the Captain does not see things this way. It soon becomes clear that he will do *anything* but return his passengers to mortal danger. He even contemplates wrecking his ship on the English coast, creating a pretext for the Jews to enter Britain. Eventually, Schröder negotiates the entry of every last passenger into France, Belgium, and Britain. He returns to Hamburg with an empty ship.
The Syrian refugees fleeing terrorism face the same mortal danger that the Jews of central Europe faced in 1939. They are ordinary human beings, not terrorists. Half -- approximately 2 million -- are children. Who will be their Captain Schröder? Where will they turn, what will become of them, and who is denying them safe harbor?
Upon arrival in Havana Harbor, Cuban officials inform the "St. Louis" that the refugees' visas have been retroactively invalidated. Captain Schröder has no choice except return to Hamburg and surrender his passengers to their fate.
He does not accept this. He takes them instead to Florida. Refused landing by U.S. officials in Florida, he sails for Canada, but the "St. Louis" is again turned away. Apparently defeated, Schröder has no choice but to return to Germany.
But the Captain does not see things this way. It soon becomes clear that he will do *anything* but return his passengers to mortal danger. He even contemplates wrecking his ship on the English coast, creating a pretext for the Jews to enter Britain. Eventually, Schröder negotiates the entry of every last passenger into France, Belgium, and Britain. He returns to Hamburg with an empty ship.
The Syrian refugees fleeing terrorism face the same mortal danger that the Jews of central Europe faced in 1939. They are ordinary human beings, not terrorists. Half -- approximately 2 million -- are children. Who will be their Captain Schröder? Where will they turn, what will become of them, and who is denying them safe harbor?
4
Even the director of the FBI says we really have no way to vet these people. The director of national intelligence says that of course ISIS would try and infiltrate the refugees with terrorists. The problem is that we should have created a safe zone so these poor people did not have to flee but Obama is just not up to the job...any job and would sooner fight with Republicans than ISIS. As of now, the French and Russians are leading the war against Islamic terror because Obama is no leader and has actually encouraged the terrorists with his weakness.
7
Personally, I don't see anything wrong with screening people who want to live in the US during a time of crisis, who will, once they are admitted, be able to wander at will anywhere they want. Also, the article states that half the refugees already admitted are families of women and children, lacking the breadwinner. The article doesn't elaborate on exactly who is supporting these families economically, since they lack a "breadwinner". My main quarrel with the open borders crowd is that no one has asked ordinary Americans what they want. (or ordinary French people, ordinary Brits, etc.) Why are the feelings and potential consequences to ordinary people never considered?
8
These are the same people with the same mindset who watched as millions of Jews were murdered. The saddest thing in my mind is the feeble minded, arrogant claim that these people are "Christians"... That Christ would allow babies, children and innocent people to suffer while they had the means to alleviate the pain is beyond belief. It's like withholding available pain relief from terminal, suffering cancer victims. Shame on all of these "Christians" and anyone else who fosters this nightmare belief.. I hope your God is more caring than you are...
3
You are correct, "refugees from war are not the enemy." However, the vast majority of Americans would like to at least have a temporary halt to taking in these refugees. Many people frankly get ticked off with this President when he belittles those who have fear of being blown up in American cities.
7
We accepted Vietnamese boat people into our nation--- people who were fleeing the consequences of our misguided efforts in that country. We should do the same for refugees fleeing the consequences of our misguided entry into Iraq…
1
The Republicans are falling all over themselves demanding a "pause" in the Syrian refugee program until a guaranteed perfect screening process is worked out to make sure that not a single person will die because a terrorist has slipped into the country. It's ironic that there the same level of concern for American lives is not shown in the Republican demands that there only be minimal screening of gun purchasers who regularly kill hundreds and even thousands of innocent people every year.
1
Republicans are always such embarrassing cowards, running around like Chicken Little, as soon as any danger appears. Let's take a page from Paris's playbook (and New York's after 9/11) and summon some courage. It's a cliche by this time, but a true one: Let the terrorists set the agenda and you let them win.
A personal example: the summer after 9/11 I was introduced to a woman who lives in the Cleveland area during a visit to relatives. She asked me, a New Yorker, about 9/11 but before I could say much, she started going off, in the most dramatic way, about that awful day and how terrified she had been and it was the worst day of her life and she ran to get her kids at school so they'd be safe and how everything had changed and we live in constant danger now and she still thought about it constantly..... And I stood there thinking, yes, but you were in Cleveland!
A personal example: the summer after 9/11 I was introduced to a woman who lives in the Cleveland area during a visit to relatives. She asked me, a New Yorker, about 9/11 but before I could say much, she started going off, in the most dramatic way, about that awful day and how terrified she had been and it was the worst day of her life and she ran to get her kids at school so they'd be safe and how everything had changed and we live in constant danger now and she still thought about it constantly..... And I stood there thinking, yes, but you were in Cleveland!
3
If France had paused return travel from Syria or Iraq and prevented these attacks would that have been considered pandering to xenophobia ? Immigration to the US is a critical and welcome asset that makes life more interesting for most of us. But too many people simply do not trust the inclinations of ideologues on either side of reasonable.
1
This bill has nothing to do with security and everything to do with Republicans appealing to their ignorant and bigoted base.
1
mocking and lecturing the right (and every day people) on this is a losing issue for the left. It's not crazy to after a massive terror attack want to slow down. It shows how out of touch the left is, and is why the Right is winning in Europe and people like trump have a chance
7
The proposed measure offers ISIS proof that they can effectively terrorize our Congress. Table it.
1
This goes way beyond "sad".
American voters need to face these real, not imaginary, facts: the Republican Party has ceased to function as a rational political party. Through its overtly brainless and ugly bellicosity and monolithic advocacy of policies that can only be characterized as fascistic, modern-day Republicanism poses a bigger threat to America's democratic ideals than ISIS itself.
The GOP has no shame and has no legitimacy.
American voters need to face these real, not imaginary, facts: the Republican Party has ceased to function as a rational political party. Through its overtly brainless and ugly bellicosity and monolithic advocacy of policies that can only be characterized as fascistic, modern-day Republicanism poses a bigger threat to America's democratic ideals than ISIS itself.
The GOP has no shame and has no legitimacy.
4
The Times as it does to further its political agenda glosses over the truth. Vetting through law enforcement records and travel records. The FBI Director says there are problems. Is he wrong? Common sense says it can not be done. Now is the Times right about the 2%? Or is it another distortion to further an agenda? The best argument vs the bill is that our border is porous so why come in the front door? In other words, is it necessary or simply feel good government pablum.
4
I don't disagree with this editorial.
However, the statement -- "That's a lot of women, children and old people", like Obama's statement yesterday that we are afraid of "widows and orphans", is not as ludicrous a notion as the NYT editors and Obama suggest. Women and widows are increasingly suicide bombers. Children as young as 11 are Islamic terrorists. So yes, it makes sense to be cautious.
Also, how terrorists gained entry into our country in the past is not necessarily how they are going to gain entry in the future, especially if another source (eg. refugees) becomes a supplier of superior talent. NYT editors should know better -- it is supremely foolish to assume that ISIS' tactics will remain static.
However, the statement -- "That's a lot of women, children and old people", like Obama's statement yesterday that we are afraid of "widows and orphans", is not as ludicrous a notion as the NYT editors and Obama suggest. Women and widows are increasingly suicide bombers. Children as young as 11 are Islamic terrorists. So yes, it makes sense to be cautious.
Also, how terrorists gained entry into our country in the past is not necessarily how they are going to gain entry in the future, especially if another source (eg. refugees) becomes a supplier of superior talent. NYT editors should know better -- it is supremely foolish to assume that ISIS' tactics will remain static.
5
If it wasn't a election year this would be a non issue. This is a good wedge issue to generate talking points for the Right. A way to contrast themselves with the President and Hillary. Everybody gets to look tough if they are a Republican candidate. Use the Refugees as a side show that deflects attention from the fact they don't have a real plan for Syria. The Republican plan is to bomb everybody in Syria and let God sort out the rest. It plays well with their base.
It's interesting to me that Huckabee and a coalition of mostly Republican governors are oppose to letting more Syrian refugees into the US. Compared to other first world countries very few have arrived here since this crisis began. The card that they play is Islamophobia and fear of letting terrorists into the US There is a big problem with this in that a lot of Syrian refugees are in fact Christian: the evangelical right wing should be drooling over a chance to help them, but don't have the intellectual gravitas to understand this nuance. Time to hear more harangues about the "War on Christmas" methinks.
The biggest cowards are those who play on fears of other to do their duty for them.
The message Republicans are sending is neither black lives matter but neither do refugee’s from Syria matter either. There is no difference between the groups, both are being used to play on the fears of others.
The message Republicans are sending is neither black lives matter but neither do refugee’s from Syria matter either. There is no difference between the groups, both are being used to play on the fears of others.
No matter how long the civil war in Syria rages on, there is one thing we know for certain--it will eventually be resolved and order will be restored. Eventually, ISIS will be defeated--because it cannot be allowed to exist. Eventually Assad will be removed, because he is a dictator and his people do not support him.
In the meantime that leaves the question of the refugees. While the devastating scenario is playing out, we must ask ourselves this question: since this current situation is temporary, why do Syrians need to leave their country on a permanent basis? Why do they need to become citizens of another country? And why-oh-why do they need to become American citizens? Is there some American interest served by having them here? If not...what is in it for us?
Say what you want about Muslim populations displaced from around the globe--they DO NOT ASSIMILATE. This is not racist, not xenophobic, it's just a fact. Even here in the U.S., Muslims tend to create their own self-contained enclaves, speak their own languages, practice their own customs--even governing themselves by Sharia law. This is certainly the case in France. Why then would any country willingly take Muslim refugees and welcome them as citizens--when they resist assimilation? What country wants that?
Aside from the security/vetting issues that arise, what purpose does it serve to bring them here? I'm not sure the "humanitarian" angle is good enough for me.
In the meantime that leaves the question of the refugees. While the devastating scenario is playing out, we must ask ourselves this question: since this current situation is temporary, why do Syrians need to leave their country on a permanent basis? Why do they need to become citizens of another country? And why-oh-why do they need to become American citizens? Is there some American interest served by having them here? If not...what is in it for us?
Say what you want about Muslim populations displaced from around the globe--they DO NOT ASSIMILATE. This is not racist, not xenophobic, it's just a fact. Even here in the U.S., Muslims tend to create their own self-contained enclaves, speak their own languages, practice their own customs--even governing themselves by Sharia law. This is certainly the case in France. Why then would any country willingly take Muslim refugees and welcome them as citizens--when they resist assimilation? What country wants that?
Aside from the security/vetting issues that arise, what purpose does it serve to bring them here? I'm not sure the "humanitarian" angle is good enough for me.
6
Perhaps a better course of action would be to stop creating more terrorists.
Yeah, do nothing, those pesty terrorist really love us under all that bluster, all we have to do is hide in the corner and do nothing and they will be sure to leave us alone.
1
It's quite interesting to me, Andrew, how if you aren't favoring bombing someone back to the Stone Age then you must be advocating for hiding in the corner and doing nothing. Life is much more complex than that.
Unfortunately it will do more to interfere with intelligence than to prevent terror.
We are terrorists.
Please compare the number of people killed on 9/11 with the number that US military forces have killed since then. Has the NY Times done this? Why not?
Think for yourself?
Please compare the number of people killed on 9/11 with the number that US military forces have killed since then. Has the NY Times done this? Why not?
Think for yourself?
Either this is the home of the brave or it isn't. We're beginning to discover it is not.
It is one thing to have these things we say about bravery and freedom, about caring for others and trusting God. It is quite another to live up to those oaths.
America has arrived at this moment sadly lacking...
It is one thing to have these things we say about bravery and freedom, about caring for others and trusting God. It is quite another to live up to those oaths.
America has arrived at this moment sadly lacking...
For the Christmas issue of our weekly newspaper in New York State, instead of another recipe for cookies, I described a babystep that we could take in our county-- invite just one Syrian family and support them by learning their culture and language while they learn ours. There are 62 counties in New York State and that would mean we would invite 62 families from our state alone and that might be about 300 persons.
A family that walks over several countries with their children on their shoulder and in their arms-- they will so appreciate our good schools and goodwill-- such a family is not going to use suicide for a weapon - they are escaping from ISIS and not one of them. Their children will be an inspiration to our schools- and really appreciate school.
To Republicans who want to delay any visa for over a year I can only say: We would get over our fear of ordinary Syrians and what better way to fight terrorism- overcome the pointless fearmongering.
Chris was born in a manger- because there was no room at the Inn- Christ's parents were migrants and shelter was found for them. It is a morally correct move to provide shelter and our FBI will do an excellent job to vet the persons who will be invited.
A family that walks over several countries with their children on their shoulder and in their arms-- they will so appreciate our good schools and goodwill-- such a family is not going to use suicide for a weapon - they are escaping from ISIS and not one of them. Their children will be an inspiration to our schools- and really appreciate school.
To Republicans who want to delay any visa for over a year I can only say: We would get over our fear of ordinary Syrians and what better way to fight terrorism- overcome the pointless fearmongering.
Chris was born in a manger- because there was no room at the Inn- Christ's parents were migrants and shelter was found for them. It is a morally correct move to provide shelter and our FBI will do an excellent job to vet the persons who will be invited.
1
This bill is a embarrassment. If the statue of liberty could, she would be crying. If your not white, male, evangelical Christian, republican and a bit dense, well you just made the list buddy. It boggles the mind, how did we let this happen?
Perhaps, congress could legislate the National Comprehensive Responsibility Act for gun control, or the Infrastructure and Future Energy Act. It is just too much to ask I guess. Peace in the world.
Perhaps, congress could legislate the National Comprehensive Responsibility Act for gun control, or the Infrastructure and Future Energy Act. It is just too much to ask I guess. Peace in the world.
The only thing the statue of liberty would be crying about is that we have given our country over to the enemy.
The vast majority of the 10,000 Syrian refugees are young Muslim men. It is just this demographic profile that has committed the vast majority of terrorism and murders in the name of Islam. it makes perfect sense to target this group with thorough vetting and outright denial of entry into the United States for the time being. We welcome people who emigrate to the U.s.; but we do not welcome people who emigrate to cause mayhem in the name of their religion.
As a Republican, I disagree with Speaker Ryan on this.
Throwing together a bloated bureaucracy is not the answer. The GOP establishment is playing the compromise half a loaf game, to "appear" tough on illegal immigration while giving Obama the keys to the car again after he's wrecked two of them.
The Syrian migrants need to be turned away. We have no guarantees or facts capable of knowing whether there are radicalized terrorists or even ISIS operatives coming here. It's a bad idea. Send them back.
You can tell when America is being forced to endure an Obama idea, because no matter how many oppose him, he does it anyway. In some bizarre way, Obama views what he is doing with regard to Syria as some sort of fix-a-flat for his Syria strategy overall. Mr. Obama fix a flat doesn't work when the car doesn't have wheels anymore.
Throwing together a bloated bureaucracy is not the answer. The GOP establishment is playing the compromise half a loaf game, to "appear" tough on illegal immigration while giving Obama the keys to the car again after he's wrecked two of them.
The Syrian migrants need to be turned away. We have no guarantees or facts capable of knowing whether there are radicalized terrorists or even ISIS operatives coming here. It's a bad idea. Send them back.
You can tell when America is being forced to endure an Obama idea, because no matter how many oppose him, he does it anyway. In some bizarre way, Obama views what he is doing with regard to Syria as some sort of fix-a-flat for his Syria strategy overall. Mr. Obama fix a flat doesn't work when the car doesn't have wheels anymore.
7
Immigration stopped during the Great Depression. This is the lowest in 48 years of house ownership; 78% of people are in the work force. We need to secure our borders and have jobs here before we let the masses of people come into the U.S. The Syrians cannot be thoroughly checked it is a very "atypical" circumstance. Take a vote on it; people at shops, gym, church, etc. do not feel protected enough nor safe to take these people in. Just because a person is a "woman" does not mean she is not a threat. Many do the suicide mission. Thirty plus governors do not want these people; Obama should not be so arrogant and ignore the people who voted him in.
8
The GOP threat to American values is far more dangerous than any potential terror attack.
You obviously don't have a clue what American values are.
Unfortunately, the bill will pass but Obama can veto it.
1
They aren't are enemies. They aren't necessarily our friends, either.
1
Immigrants should, when they survive the citizenship process, always vote Democrat. Naturally!
1
Half the refugees are women! A woman was involved in the Paris attacks? No one is against refugees, people are afraid of ISIS who said they were going to mix agents in with the refugees, and they did it in Paris. The question is, to whom does our government have its first obligation, it's citizens or refugees who may be used as pawns to sneak agents of terror to our shores? It's not a theory, ISIS said they would do it and they did it in Paris. This isn't an esoteric debate its a real war and people have died. We need a state of emergency for surveillance purposes. During WWII, men were drafted, what could be a greater suspension of liberty? We did it and we won back our freedom.
3
Why is it the Times does not report that federal agents operating under the umbrella of U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) are claiming that eight Syrian illegal aliens attempted to enter Texas from Mexico in the Laredo Sector? Because they don't want you to know.
7
The consensus I heard on the radio yesterday (NPR, on " The Diane Rehm show" no less) no raving right wing radio host, she---Is that the very Idea of a "robust lengthy and thorough screening" is bunk, it is absolute fantasy. Without a functioning embassy in Syria or any centralized and computerized records of birth, marriage etc. the "screening" is simply impossible and is chiefly a lengthy discussion with the immigrant and a government official, who has to take on faith what the immigrant says (yes this all comes out of the Diane Rehm show). What the NYT implies is that to keep settling Syrians in this country there must be some "acceptable risk" of terrorist activity as a result of the immigration process. Number one: ask the relatives of the Parisian dead how they feel about acceptable risk. Number two: all of you pushing for this open borders madness, so long as its NIMBY, right?
6
Here in Germany, we have admitted the number of 750.000 refugees not in 14 but in just one year, this year! Volunteers are working in their spare time to deliver food and shelter for those arriving from area of war chaos, mostly people, who have lost everything. Yet, xenophobia is rising in Germany too, bcause it is a natural reaction to be afraid of the foreign, especially after the new reminder of barbarism, the attacks in Paris. But let's not forget, that most of these attacks are committed by young sickos, who often are citizens of those countries and were born there (in Belgium, in France). Don't forget, that the last major attack in the US in Boston hast been committed by two brothers, who had lived in the US for a long time. They were no refugees. - In this GUARDIAN article, a french reporter, who had been held hostage for ten month by the US (with fellow sufferers, who were beheaded later) says, that the IS fears nothing more than unity. He says quote:"The pictures from Germany of people welcoming migrants will have been particularly troubling to them. Cohesion, tolerance – it is not what they want to see." So, apart from security measures, which clearly have to be improved to the maximum ("maximum" in respect to the boundaries of democracy) we all have to do our best on the homefront, improve living conditions and fight poverty. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/16/isis-bombs-hostage-...
1
'...the last major attack in the US in Boston hast been committed by two brothers, who had lived in the US for a long time...'
The Boston Bomber's family were 'refugees', who lied to get into the US for the welfare benefits. They arrived in the US in 2002, eleven years before their children became terrorists, not exactly a 'long time'.
The Boston Bomber's family were 'refugees', who lied to get into the US for the welfare benefits. They arrived in the US in 2002, eleven years before their children became terrorists, not exactly a 'long time'.
1
The current lame duck US President might propose Americans step in dog droppings as a sign of their patriotism, and the Time's Editorial Board might likely applaud his proposal as an example of bold, patriotic leadership.
At least one of the Paris terrorists snuck into France among refugees from the war torn Levant.
HR 4038 is simply an act of judicious prudence.
Comparing the potential for terrorism from the war torn region to gun violence at home is pure nonsense, no sane, law abiding US citizen believes allowing the seriously mentally ill, or convicted criminals, access to guns is a good idea.
Though democrats tend to agree early parole, and keeping the mentally ill, particularly the seriously mentally ill, out of institutions and on the streets is somehow "enlightened." For decades, democrats like Chuck Schumer have even opposed NRA efforts to enroll all the adjudicated mentally ill into the National Instant Background Check System. Because, you know, it's not enough.
And of course, the majority of gun crime takes place in urban areas long the bastion of democrat party control, and very strict gun laws. The same democrats often opposing HR 4038.
And comparing Syrians raised in Syria to Japanese Americans raised, or otherwise naturalized, in the US, those who were interned during World War 2, is simply specious. Bur of course, some democrats actually believe there is no legal, or other substantive differences between American citizens, and foreign nationals.
At least one of the Paris terrorists snuck into France among refugees from the war torn Levant.
HR 4038 is simply an act of judicious prudence.
Comparing the potential for terrorism from the war torn region to gun violence at home is pure nonsense, no sane, law abiding US citizen believes allowing the seriously mentally ill, or convicted criminals, access to guns is a good idea.
Though democrats tend to agree early parole, and keeping the mentally ill, particularly the seriously mentally ill, out of institutions and on the streets is somehow "enlightened." For decades, democrats like Chuck Schumer have even opposed NRA efforts to enroll all the adjudicated mentally ill into the National Instant Background Check System. Because, you know, it's not enough.
And of course, the majority of gun crime takes place in urban areas long the bastion of democrat party control, and very strict gun laws. The same democrats often opposing HR 4038.
And comparing Syrians raised in Syria to Japanese Americans raised, or otherwise naturalized, in the US, those who were interned during World War 2, is simply specious. Bur of course, some democrats actually believe there is no legal, or other substantive differences between American citizens, and foreign nationals.
3
Good Job, Dairy Farmers Daughter, for calling your Congress representative! Yes, we all need to call the 40 republican/tea party "freedom deniers" who are holding OUR government hostage to their hateful, angry, fearful, supposed "christian" views. Now is the time for a tweet directed at the forty to go virile and tell the world that the majority of us do not agree with the BIG democracy-destroying, fear and war mongering money masters behind these political operatives. WE welcome well-vetted Syrian refugees to America.
2
You can't pause something that is not being done. The amount of Syrian refugees coming to the US is not only miniscule but were were approved before the increase in refugees fleeing from the Syrian war zone this year. Saying that the approval (not vetting) for a refugee family to come here takes two years only proves the incompetency of our refugee approval process bureaucracy, not a good investigation. Refugees need help immediately or as near to immediate as possible not to the whim of bureaucratic nonsense. Why don't these congress people say we're not accepting refugees period rather than covering themselves with the pretense that we have effective refugee policy. Stop preying on American fears for political gain.
1
In the USA there are hundreds of thousands of homeless, millions without access to regular healthcare, and tens of millions that are un or under employed. As long as there are so many destitute already here, it makes no sense to increase the number of people who will overwhelmingly rely on government benefits like food stamps. The NY Times editorial board lives in a utopian fantasy land, no doubt insulated by comfortable apartments, private schools, and Hampton summers.
2
Anyone that doesn't see that both stubbornly partisan parties use the refugee-terrorist problem for political gain is themselves part of our democratic disfunction.
No refugee has to come to the US to escape persecution. This is just the Cadillac of destination countries. Both parties could agree to pay to resettle them in more cost effective and welcoming societies much closer to their home countries which would help the greatest number of refugees per dollar spent but where would the political gain be from such an easy answer?
With the current entrenched partisan positions, Republicans own the label of anti-illegal immigrant during the next election and democrats own the next refugee or illegal immigrant run terrorist attack instead...and but a handful of refugees are helped.
No refugee has to come to the US to escape persecution. This is just the Cadillac of destination countries. Both parties could agree to pay to resettle them in more cost effective and welcoming societies much closer to their home countries which would help the greatest number of refugees per dollar spent but where would the political gain be from such an easy answer?
With the current entrenched partisan positions, Republicans own the label of anti-illegal immigrant during the next election and democrats own the next refugee or illegal immigrant run terrorist attack instead...and but a handful of refugees are helped.
Since the communist revolution in Cuba, all refugees from there only had to set foot on American shores and they were welcomed with open arms. Until recently Cuba was declared a terrorists state and congress was not concerned about the possible terrorists coming from Cuba. We should treat all past and present immigrants from Cuba as possible terrorists or even spies. Those that have been here for years and their children and grandchildren may be sleeper spies. I'm very afraid of these people especially those that might have slipped in through Canada.
Even a cursory reading of Arab history would reveal that Arabs have for centuries attempted to establish self-rule with little success. After the Ottoman Empire began to crumble in the 1800’s prior to WW1, their dominance of this region was replaced by western colonialism. Spain, Italy, France, Germany, and England and others dominated people seeking some form of self-determination for much of the first half of the 20th Century. In the years after WW2 this region became embroiled in Cold War politics and a desire for self-determination was viewed as picking sides in this east-west conflict. The US instead of being seen as the champion of democracy and for ending colonial rule came to be viewed as just another oppressor interested in economic gain at Arab expense.
What we have today in this region is a vast civil war made more terrible by centuries of failure and disappointment.
A refusal to admit refugees from this conflict, the people whose lives have been shattered by violent war, will serve to perpetuate the view that we are just another enemy to be opposed. More people die in the US daily from gun shots and automobile accidents than died in Paris last weekend. The Paris terrorist attack was horrific and it would be horrific to add to that pain the denial of sanctuary to those immigrants from this civil conflict seeking refuge in the US.
What we have today in this region is a vast civil war made more terrible by centuries of failure and disappointment.
A refusal to admit refugees from this conflict, the people whose lives have been shattered by violent war, will serve to perpetuate the view that we are just another enemy to be opposed. More people die in the US daily from gun shots and automobile accidents than died in Paris last weekend. The Paris terrorist attack was horrific and it would be horrific to add to that pain the denial of sanctuary to those immigrants from this civil conflict seeking refuge in the US.
I spent 12 of the most wonderful years of my life in Blacksburg, Virginia, nestled in the beautiful Blue Ridge Mountains of southwestern Virginia. So it was with much disgust, shame, and sadness that I read the comments of Roanoke VA's mayor Bowers, calling for local government and non-government agencies to all but shun and turn away Syrian refugees from his city and to suspend any assistance to them. Thinking it couldn't get any worse, he reminded us of one of President Roosevelt's more inglorious moments--his efforts to round up and imprison Japanese nationals. After all, Bowers said, we need protection from "harm and danger" posed by these refugees, this "present scourge upon the earth." His words. On official letterhead.
No sooner had Bowers' venomous memo been circulated when the flood hit; the calls, tweets, texts to denounce and distance themselves from him was swift. The community which has seen its share of tragedy from both foreigners and locals, hit back hard.
The support to war refugees vowed by many, including governor Malloy of my new home state of Connecticut, and the actions of my former community to quickly stamp out hatred at all levels as soon as we see it, must continue. Our own community 'leaders' like Bowers and others like New Jersey governor Christie may not have the ability to change federal laws, and their numbers may be few, but they have the power to cement public opinion and give traction to unfounded radical fears.
No sooner had Bowers' venomous memo been circulated when the flood hit; the calls, tweets, texts to denounce and distance themselves from him was swift. The community which has seen its share of tragedy from both foreigners and locals, hit back hard.
The support to war refugees vowed by many, including governor Malloy of my new home state of Connecticut, and the actions of my former community to quickly stamp out hatred at all levels as soon as we see it, must continue. Our own community 'leaders' like Bowers and others like New Jersey governor Christie may not have the ability to change federal laws, and their numbers may be few, but they have the power to cement public opinion and give traction to unfounded radical fears.
1
We already have too many people who are American that need government help. We don't have the resources to help all the refugees....especially the men who choose to run rather than fight their own battle at home. Refugee children are victims and I feel sorry for them, but not as sorry as I feel for the Americans living in poverty and requiring food stamps to survive. Let's solve our own problems first. Then we can let in the refugee children if someone is willing to adopt them and care for them. It should not be the taxpayer's burden to care for people fleeing violence in the middle east. There are plenty of closer countries that should be helping the refugees.
5
I'll welcome any refugees that are fleeing oppression. But, it's really quite simple. Only let in immigrants after they have gone through a security check. If a check can't be done because there are no available records, well, sorry - protecting its citizens is the #1 priority of the U.S. government.
All this legislation does is make sure that we only take in those we can verify as not being a threat. Why is that even controversial?
All this legislation does is make sure that we only take in those we can verify as not being a threat. Why is that even controversial?
8
If we dont give in to the refugees the terrorists win. Right.
If we dont surrender they will keep attacking us.
If we dont allow everyone in they will become radicalized.
Do people even hear what they are saying? If we dont provide a home to someone they will feel justified to try to murder us? And we are going to allow such people access to our country?
The terrorists want Muslims to emigrate to our countries. They want to destroy our culture, society and way of life. Why convert us when they can simply out-breed us?
We are not obligated to accept anyone. And for those of you who do feel obligated: great. You should be proud of yourselves. But in a free country obligations are not dictated to citizens- they are accepted, or not, by each individual.
If these economic migrants are hurt it wont be because of Americans- it will be because of the people who hurt them. We are not the ones killing these economic migrants- and we are not responsible for their plight.
If we dont surrender they will keep attacking us.
If we dont allow everyone in they will become radicalized.
Do people even hear what they are saying? If we dont provide a home to someone they will feel justified to try to murder us? And we are going to allow such people access to our country?
The terrorists want Muslims to emigrate to our countries. They want to destroy our culture, society and way of life. Why convert us when they can simply out-breed us?
We are not obligated to accept anyone. And for those of you who do feel obligated: great. You should be proud of yourselves. But in a free country obligations are not dictated to citizens- they are accepted, or not, by each individual.
If these economic migrants are hurt it wont be because of Americans- it will be because of the people who hurt them. We are not the ones killing these economic migrants- and we are not responsible for their plight.
3
I have noticed an interesting thing with right wingers and republicans. Each Fall they go into irrational panic mode. This year it is Syrian refugees but who remembers last year and the utter panic over Ebola. Close the borders because Ebola is this huge threat. Further back say the Fall of 2001 after the Twin Towers, it was Iraq is days away from nuking us.
Something about the trees shedding leaves and the days shortening seems to drive republicans into fits of insanity. It is really too bad this happens when one thinks of the $Trillions that could be saved if this did not occur.
Something about the trees shedding leaves and the days shortening seems to drive republicans into fits of insanity. It is really too bad this happens when one thinks of the $Trillions that could be saved if this did not occur.
1
Obviously, refugees are not the enemy! However, refugees coming from a place that currently has the highest density of apocalyptic suicidal mass murders on the planet, drawn from all over the world and bent no-less on disrupting western civilization, should give any sensible person a moment of pause. It is not necessarily xenophobic to be against getting blown up! In so far as there is a way to clearly identify those Syrians who would never dream of killing innocent people vs. the other camp that actively contemplates it, then by all means let's do our share and let's take in those old women and orphans president Obama has talked about. If the gov't, in fact, has limited mechanisms to differentiate between the two, as many contend, than the "know nothings" on the right have made a valid point. Either way, the administration has done a terrible job explaining what criteria are actually used to vet these Syrians we intend to invite in and what parameters are in force. While this editorial helps correct some misconceptions, the administration must do a better job.
Obama's attack on letting in Christians is a complete straw man. It isn't about prioritizing Christian lives over Muslim lives... (both have clearly suffered tremendously in Syria). It's just that Syrian Christians, as an absolute truism, have no reason to blow themselves up once they get here.
Obama's attack on letting in Christians is a complete straw man. It isn't about prioritizing Christian lives over Muslim lives... (both have clearly suffered tremendously in Syria). It's just that Syrian Christians, as an absolute truism, have no reason to blow themselves up once they get here.
It is particularly xenophobic to push a bill that gives no value-added to the current refugee procedures and/or to argue that such refugees shouldn't be admitted. The statement on letting in Christians isn't a straw man. Since the overwhelming majority of Muslims have no reason to blow themselves up once they get here, such discrimination can only be based on prejudice against Muslims qua Muslims.
1
How quickly the Republicans embrace a position of a so-called "protective" stance, seeking to bar refugees from entering our country. Who among us is not an immigrant, once, twice or several times removed?
To jump on that exclusionary bandwagon so quickly and ardently again demonstrates the Republican persona of ingratitude, exclusiveness, and remoteness. Governors of red states quickly stated that "no refugees will enter their states", knowing, of course, that states have no basis for excluding anyone. We don't work that way and it is shameful that they portray this country in the light of exclusion, not inclusion.
The refugees have traveled a long road, and it is far from over, but we in the US have to return to the road of inclusiveness, empathy, and sharing.
To jump on that exclusionary bandwagon so quickly and ardently again demonstrates the Republican persona of ingratitude, exclusiveness, and remoteness. Governors of red states quickly stated that "no refugees will enter their states", knowing, of course, that states have no basis for excluding anyone. We don't work that way and it is shameful that they portray this country in the light of exclusion, not inclusion.
The refugees have traveled a long road, and it is far from over, but we in the US have to return to the road of inclusiveness, empathy, and sharing.
1
For Arabs, the experience in France has been that many French citizens look upon them as low-cost workers who might take their jobs, and whose religious views do not fit in with a country which is, from what I have read, devoted more to a secular worldview valuing freedom of thought and expression than obedience to religion. Welcoming and making immigrants feel comfortable and valued is not a French law. It is understandable that Arabs who want to fit in, want to contribute, etc. feel resentful when they -- more than the average French citizen -- cannot find a job, cannot socialize with many of the people surrounding them, cannot find safe, affordable housing. An NPR story ( http://www.npr.org/2015/11/16/456194287/journalist-says-paris-attacks-hi... ) mentions how some far-right French politicians are calling for forcible serving of pork in schools (which Jews and Muslims cannot eat), and some mayors have called for banning new kebab shops because they threaten traditional French restaurants. The percentage of resentful people committing acts of terror is very, very low, but it is not zero.
I wonder if the Syrian refugee experience in the U.S. would be similar to the French one, and I wonder why other Arab countries do not welcome Syrian refugees.
I wonder if the Syrian refugee experience in the U.S. would be similar to the French one, and I wonder why other Arab countries do not welcome Syrian refugees.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." This doesn't just say US citizens, or that we get to pick and chose which of "them" we like or don't. As a guiding principle of our Nation we should stand for those words. In our declaration, we also state that the government derives it's powers from the governed. If a majority don't like the direction we are going, we can have a revolution at the polls in November 2016. We don't live in a risk-less society, as some below elude to and strive for. If we lose our humanity for security, we have lost as a Nation and support the notion of the terrorists. To those who suggest the President's duty is to protect us at all costs, the oath of office states "... to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."
I particularly shake my head at Sen. Ted Cruz's suggestion that the U.S. only allow "Christian" refugees into the country. How can we hope to know if these refugees are telling the truth? The obvious proof that this is a flawed tactic is that the Republican Party has had over a dozen presidential candidates falsely representing themselves as "Christian" for these recent many months and have been unable to realize their deception.
2
Sad to see a political party seize upon a sad day for humanity and use it to bludgeon our president. There is no credibility for this group of power hungry opportunists as they have operated in in lock step for seven years without a shred of respect for the office of the president and the complexity of the issues at hand. If the sanctity of life is so important- let's work on assault weapons which are responsible for the killing of innocents in our schools. We are a nation of immigrants and though we cannot protect ourselves from every evil, to use the refuge of a minuscule percent of those in need to gin up fear for political gain is despicable, but nothing new in the fox playbook. We can never build gates high enough - but we can ask our leaders to work together to honor the ideals for which we fought and know that we have something worth protecting.
1
The GOP leadership once again shows itself a bigots and fearmongers. A clear explanation of the current vetting process for incoming refugees should quell the anxiety of most. It takes years to enter. The refugees are not just hopping on planes and arriving daily. Common senses and compassion should rule the day.
The US is and should be a country of diversity.
The US is and should be a country of diversity.
The head of Homeland Security and the FBI have testified that the vetting process cannot say for any certainty who is coming into the Untied States. They will never nor could they "certify" anyone is 100% safe. In fact if you listen to what they had said, the only thing the vetting process can say for sure is that they aren't on a terrorist watch list. So the vetting process in actuality means nothing. They stated we don't have the ability to ask foreign governments from where these people are coming from for them to give us concrete answers to who they are. As for fingerprint checks, who are we inquiring to check them Assad's Syrian government who we are at war with?
Women and children are probably much less an issue for security. But will in the future they be allowed to bring other relatives here? Will they go home after the war is over? Who is going to take care of the elderly Syrians who have perhaps only a few years of work life left if they work at all? We don't take care of our own elderly, our own veterans, but we should provide new housing, healthcare, education and monthly benefits to people that under the law have really no right to be here. Nor does our Constitution state they have that right. Morally and ethically the issue is debatable.
We have sacrificed over 5000 of our sons and daughters to give freedom a chance in the ME and guess what, those people don't have the courage themselves to fight for it and keep what our military gave them.
Women and children are probably much less an issue for security. But will in the future they be allowed to bring other relatives here? Will they go home after the war is over? Who is going to take care of the elderly Syrians who have perhaps only a few years of work life left if they work at all? We don't take care of our own elderly, our own veterans, but we should provide new housing, healthcare, education and monthly benefits to people that under the law have really no right to be here. Nor does our Constitution state they have that right. Morally and ethically the issue is debatable.
We have sacrificed over 5000 of our sons and daughters to give freedom a chance in the ME and guess what, those people don't have the courage themselves to fight for it and keep what our military gave them.
1
These "leaders" who want to stop the flow of immigrants came from a background of believers of myth. Their grandparents cheered the House of UnAmerican Activities when they believed that the nation was full of communist sympathizers ready to take over. Their parents urged sending the military to Vietnam so that the dominos would not topple and endanger the entire region. And they were the ones who believed our President who ordered the invasion of Iraq. I wonder what holy allegiance their children will follow.
This H.R. 4038, the American Security Against Foreign Enemis (SAFE) Act of 2015 reminds of a dark chapter of the Roosevelt administration, which refused to accept Jewish refugees fleeing Hitler's fascist regime, war, and ultimately Holocaust. It was seen as a horrible and tragic episode in American history.
According to a 1938 poll, two-thirds of the respondents said they should try to keep the Jews out. They saw them as "political refugees" being on par with communists, anarchists and posing ideological threats.
According to a 1938 poll, two-thirds of the respondents said they should try to keep the Jews out. They saw them as "political refugees" being on par with communists, anarchists and posing ideological threats.
4
I've seen variations of this comment a dozen times this morning-- RED HERRING-- unless there is some history I'm not aware of that some of the Jews trying to emigrate were the world war II equivalent of ISIS in disguise.
1
History contnues to repeat itself over and over and over. Hate isn't inherited, it is taught
Significant difference is that the Jews that FDR unreasonably excluded, did not include people who brought murder and destruction to their neighbors or to those with whom they disagreed.
A more reasonable connection might be made if one cited Truman's policies to bring noted Nazi scientists to America...At least in that case, the nation got something out of the exchange; it is highly unlikely that the same can be said about taking in Middle Eastern refugees.
A more reasonable connection might be made if one cited Truman's policies to bring noted Nazi scientists to America...At least in that case, the nation got something out of the exchange; it is highly unlikely that the same can be said about taking in Middle Eastern refugees.
Fear, anger, hate, violence. That is all the "red" states have to sell. Not on your life, boys and girls. The vast majority of us are not buying your 2015 version of the communist scare tactics of Joseph McCarthy and Ronald Reagan. The vast majority of Americans are in favor of allowing Syrian refugees who have been vetted by both the U.N. and U.S. Syrian refugees who are fleeing from the war, destruction and chaos your boy George Bush, Jr. spread when he recklessly invaded Iraq. November 8, 2016 cannot come soon enough when we will send you Boogie Men and Women back to where you came from - or to Syria. There's an idea.
5
The question is not, as you suggest, hinging on the mere bringing in "refugees".
It is a question of the Obama administration's claim of robust vetting protocols that clearly do not exist...
And until they do, it may be necessary to decline the issuance of invitations to turn our cities into suburbs or look-alike versions of Damascus or Racca, replete with the poverty and violence of medieval proportions.
Sorry, The People are entitled to better treatment by our government than that,
I thoroughly reject, nhglea, both your premises and and your conclusion as being both false and premeditatedly so.
It is a question of the Obama administration's claim of robust vetting protocols that clearly do not exist...
And until they do, it may be necessary to decline the issuance of invitations to turn our cities into suburbs or look-alike versions of Damascus or Racca, replete with the poverty and violence of medieval proportions.
Sorry, The People are entitled to better treatment by our government than that,
I thoroughly reject, nhglea, both your premises and and your conclusion as being both false and premeditatedly so.
The current front runner for the Democrat party's presidential nomination voted fully in favor of the Iraq invasion. I assume you will stand by principle and not vote for her in 2016. Right?
A side issue:
"That’s a lot of women, children, and old people."
It's astonishing to me that despite the Times' reflexive liberalism (and some might say excruciating political correctness), the editorial board would automatically equate women with those who are harmless and helpless.
In the third paragraph of what's currently the top story on the home page, we're reminded of "a woman who detonated a suicide vest, whom two French intelligence officials have identified as Hasna Aitboulahcen" in Wednesday's raid.
Yesterday, Tom Friedman praised an Uber-like service in Saudi Arabia "where women can’t drive and need chauffeurs to take them and their kids everywhere". Women aren't incapable of driving and don't "need" someone to chauffeur them and their children around, as legions of mothers in this country know. Rather, Saudi women are denied this practical tool of personal autonomy.
So don't advocate for admitting women to the U.S. because they're child-like or of limited capacity. Advocate for admitting women because any woman subjected to second-class citizenship and the oppression of sharia law should be considered for political asylum.
"That’s a lot of women, children, and old people."
It's astonishing to me that despite the Times' reflexive liberalism (and some might say excruciating political correctness), the editorial board would automatically equate women with those who are harmless and helpless.
In the third paragraph of what's currently the top story on the home page, we're reminded of "a woman who detonated a suicide vest, whom two French intelligence officials have identified as Hasna Aitboulahcen" in Wednesday's raid.
Yesterday, Tom Friedman praised an Uber-like service in Saudi Arabia "where women can’t drive and need chauffeurs to take them and their kids everywhere". Women aren't incapable of driving and don't "need" someone to chauffeur them and their children around, as legions of mothers in this country know. Rather, Saudi women are denied this practical tool of personal autonomy.
So don't advocate for admitting women to the U.S. because they're child-like or of limited capacity. Advocate for admitting women because any woman subjected to second-class citizenship and the oppression of sharia law should be considered for political asylum.
8
Also, they don't explain in detail how these supposedly unskilled women and their children and grandparents are going to afford to live here. Who is going to pay for their food, lodging, schooling, medical care etc? Where will this money come from?
IF we shouldn't outlaw guns because inevitably some will get around the law, then we shouldn't outlaw refugees because even if we do, some of them will end up here illegally as well.
5
So Obama supporters are arguing that since guns are not outlawed (guns are inanimate objects, not people) then its okay to allow Syrians who may be radicalized or worse, members of ISIS to enter the country and be secretly relocated to cities and towns in America, and nobody in America can say a word about it.
I wanted to vote for Obama, but when the Democrats found out I could read, write and think, they said I was overqualified to be an Obama supporter.
I wanted to vote for Obama, but when the Democrats found out I could read, write and think, they said I was overqualified to be an Obama supporter.
2
Let's deal with those Syrian refuges the same way we dealt with those fleeing Cuba after the Castro revolution.
6
Betsy, the Cuban refugees were mostly Christian, had been to schools, and had concept of living peacefully in a nation of laws. The refugees that are missing all of these should not be candidates for coming here.
Compare "Europe's Welcome Sign to Terrorists."
1
Twitter circulated a picture of young Syrian children arriving at an airport in Washington state, carrying gifts of flowers, looked dazed and beleaguered by their new surroundings; the text reminded everyone that these are the Syrian refugees 31 GOP governors fear are terrorist embeds.
Ok--the image twisted and stretched the governor's stands--but also reflected how twisted is their claim their opposition is only prudent. Not so! Their stands are politically aberrant!
Here's why: official reports say only 2% of US Syrian refugees are prime age males; the US resettlement program has been operating without incident for several years; the vetting process sets priorities, overlaps and takes at least 18 months; resettled families have US sponsors who work closely with the families; stopping refugee entry doesn't fight terrorism; the details, process, and empirical evidence of refugee entry and management support no evidence of threat. Germany has accepted a million; two million have settled in Jordan, Lebanon, and Turkey--all without incident.
Why the howling? The GOP sees Obama as the real threat--not the refugees! Cruz, Trump and others say so! The GOP pushes mightily against the President on issues from personal to policy, purely for politics. Every challenge has been presented on a platter and pillar of fear and mistrust. It has become so ridiculous that the Roanoke, Virginia mayor cited the shameful Japanese internment as an compelling national example.
Ok--the image twisted and stretched the governor's stands--but also reflected how twisted is their claim their opposition is only prudent. Not so! Their stands are politically aberrant!
Here's why: official reports say only 2% of US Syrian refugees are prime age males; the US resettlement program has been operating without incident for several years; the vetting process sets priorities, overlaps and takes at least 18 months; resettled families have US sponsors who work closely with the families; stopping refugee entry doesn't fight terrorism; the details, process, and empirical evidence of refugee entry and management support no evidence of threat. Germany has accepted a million; two million have settled in Jordan, Lebanon, and Turkey--all without incident.
Why the howling? The GOP sees Obama as the real threat--not the refugees! Cruz, Trump and others say so! The GOP pushes mightily against the President on issues from personal to policy, purely for politics. Every challenge has been presented on a platter and pillar of fear and mistrust. It has become so ridiculous that the Roanoke, Virginia mayor cited the shameful Japanese internment as an compelling national example.
20
The GOP is creating shibboleths blaming the victims of terrorism in order to attack and undercut the President--against the evidence!--but is willing to allow watchlisted US residents to buy guns (no background checks!); nor did the GOP block Saudi citizens from entry after 9/11. Its candidates and governors continue to weaken American values (a prime mission of terrorists!) by proposing actions that aid global terrorist recruitment and raise terrorists morale by giving the appearance that the long arms of their campaign is working--by the mere influence of media threats and distant actions which leverage and trigger the dynamics of contradictions in US politics which aid and advance their cause, without a fight.
14
I bet those Boston Bombers were cute as children.
1
We should expect elected leaders to want to protect their citizens from terrorists. We ALREADY know that the terrorists are mixed in with these actual refugees. Is Walter willing to risk his family and friends' lives on there being no terrorists among the ones he welcomes into his neighborhood?
Simply knowing who you are supposed to hate is no way to enter old age.
Simply knowing who you are supposed to hate is no way to enter old age.
2
Will the Syrian refugee issue provide Americans an opportunity to illustrate their decency and compassion or will Americans be led by political opportunists into the caldron of refugee bashing?
A look back at a previous refugee issue from the late 1930s -- the MS St. Louis -- could provide a teachable moment. For more on this MS St. Louis, go here: http://tinyurl.com/2d4eq7w .
A look back at a previous refugee issue from the late 1930s -- the MS St. Louis -- could provide a teachable moment. For more on this MS St. Louis, go here: http://tinyurl.com/2d4eq7w .
6
The directors of the FBI and national Intellligence are not refuge specialists. This bill demands that they approve every refugee personally. That stipulation alone would affect us all by making those two very important administrators use their time ineffectively. It is beyond bureaucratic,its foolish. It is a recipe in how to be incompetent.
The GOP calls for leadership, strong leadership. Leadership demands that we accept vetted refugees from Syria. Some of these families have been living in camps for years trying to survive both Assad and ISIS/DASH.
If the GOP wants to keep us safe, let them address what really puts people in harms way; hospital infections, overdoses, poor access to mental health treatments, overdoses, smoking, alcholism, gun violence, stuid drivig aka texting, wars,etc,
H.R. 4038, Congress.. Please file this bill in the incompetence folder and use your time to actually keep America safer.
The GOP calls for leadership, strong leadership. Leadership demands that we accept vetted refugees from Syria. Some of these families have been living in camps for years trying to survive both Assad and ISIS/DASH.
If the GOP wants to keep us safe, let them address what really puts people in harms way; hospital infections, overdoses, poor access to mental health treatments, overdoses, smoking, alcholism, gun violence, stuid drivig aka texting, wars,etc,
H.R. 4038, Congress.. Please file this bill in the incompetence folder and use your time to actually keep America safer.
19
All the government protocols put in place after 9/11 couldn't protect the people of Boston. the Tsarnaev brothers were refugees, and worst, they were children when they arrived. There is no compelling reason for the U.S. to in Syrian refugees. The President turned his back on Syrian a long time ago. Where was the U.S. Navy this past summer as young children drowned and washed ashore? Despicable. Besides, Obama keeps telling us ISIS is "contained" and his strategy is working. If that is true, why are there refugees?
12
The Tsarnaev brothers weren't refugees but were admitted as their families had sought political asylum. Further, that wasn't a case of a program admitting terrorists; the Tsarnaev brothers were 16 and 8 at the time. The elder brother became radicalized several years after admission. The Syrian refugees are fleeing the civil war in Syria in general, including the acts of Assad, not just ISIS. Likewise, the containment of ISIS' territorial control to Syria and Iraq doesn't mean there isn't fighting going on in those countries; your statement is something of a non-sequitur.
2
What a jumbled hodge podge of diatribe. A segment of America has now completely gone insane and turned into carictures of what America was at its worst when Jews were turned away to die, Americans with Japenese ancestors were stripped of everything, and the enslaved were "better off" in shakles than free.
1
The Tsraenaev brothers were NOT refugees. They came here as children on their father's tourist visa - he applied for asylum and was granted it. They were children when they arrived - they were radicalized HERE in the USA. They did not go thru the same process of vetting. You cannot give ONE example of an actual refugee who's gone thru the extensive, intensive vetting process who's committed terrorism domestically.
1
Technically, if those fleeing ISIS come by way of Europe, they are not refugees anymore. The European Union requires they apply for asylum in the first European country that they reach, so unless you consider someone leaving Italy or Greece or wherever as fleeing oppression, they are not refugees. They are Greek or Italian nationals.
6
Technically, that is not correct. They became refugees by nature of the reason for their flight. If we take some of them in, they don't stop being refugees. They certainly didn't become Greek or Italian nationals.
1
Technically, if you had the time to trouble yourself with those pesky things called FACTS, you should know that nothing that you describe in your post is, at all even, close to accurate. Ignorance at best; willful, deceitful, bigotry at worst. I hope it is the prior, not the latter.
Of course the refugees are not the enemy. But it is disingenuous to maintain on the one hand, that we should throw our doors open, while on the other hand continuing to promote a passive isolationist foreign policy. It is a mixed message. For years now most of the American public has signed on to the Obama don't do stupid things/don't intervene wherever we might get shot at approach to dealing with the world's growing numbers of trouble spots. Then why should Obama and the Times expect the same public that was sold that bill of goods to suddenly be open-minded internationalists when it comes to refugees? You reap what you sow.
8
What you call "isolationism" is NOT a "bill of goods". If the US had been more "isolationist" this crisis would arguably not exist in the first place, Iraqis would still have a country to inhabit, and the US would be about 10 trillion dollars richer. The Norwegians are "isolationist" and they have the highest standard of living in the world, or close to the highest.
The Muslim world has many nations with Mosques and Sharia Law. These are places where only Islam is allowed like Saudi or Somalia. Drinking alcohol is punished. They have welcome arms for Muslims and generally will not allow a Christian or Jew to gain residence. Send the Refugees to where they will be happy with their fellow Muslims. Pakistan, Iraq, Indonesia and the options continue. Muslims should not be subject to the Western lifestyles with drinking of wine, study of science and women driving automobiles. These cultures are UnIslamic.
26
The refugees from Syria include Christians as well. Furthermore, in Syria, as in countries such as Lebanon, Jordan and Turkey, while they have Muslims, alcohol is not forbidden and all women are allowed to drive, work and participate socially without having to cover themselves. And the study of science has always been allowed and encouraged in all Arab and Muslim countries. Shame on those in the US who would turn there backs on refugees escaping oppression, violence and war. How quickly you forget that all of our families immigrated to the US from somewhere. There is a difference between refugees and terrorists.
No profiles in courage here.
It is fitting, and reprehensible, that Republicans in the Congress have moved so quickly on this legislation, while failing in their basic duty under the Constitution to authorize the use of military force in Syria.
Here is what the NYT said a year ago:
''The United States is fighting a new and costly war in Iraq and Syria. Yet, for months, members of Congress have ducked their constitutional responsibility for warmaking. They have neither initiated a meaningful debate on the use of American force against the Islamic State, which is known as ISIS, nor shown any inclination to vote on whether to endorse or modify the mission.''
This is a time of peril and turmoil, during which it would be beneficial to have a functioning government, acting in good faith after serious debate on serious issues. Instead, we see nothing but self-interested pursuit of re-election, reducing the issues to poll-tested talking points.
A sad state of affairs for the country that introduced popular democracy to the world.
It is fitting, and reprehensible, that Republicans in the Congress have moved so quickly on this legislation, while failing in their basic duty under the Constitution to authorize the use of military force in Syria.
Here is what the NYT said a year ago:
''The United States is fighting a new and costly war in Iraq and Syria. Yet, for months, members of Congress have ducked their constitutional responsibility for warmaking. They have neither initiated a meaningful debate on the use of American force against the Islamic State, which is known as ISIS, nor shown any inclination to vote on whether to endorse or modify the mission.''
This is a time of peril and turmoil, during which it would be beneficial to have a functioning government, acting in good faith after serious debate on serious issues. Instead, we see nothing but self-interested pursuit of re-election, reducing the issues to poll-tested talking points.
A sad state of affairs for the country that introduced popular democracy to the world.
10
Excellent post. I only wish that I could recommend it a thousand times. These light-weight, fearful and fear-promoting Republicans in Congress need to start working with their President rather than against him to solve problems. Defeating Obama seems to be more important to them than defeating DAESH/ ISIS.
The House is merely continuing its usual procedures. Pass a bill in search of a problem, pass a bill with unrelated amendments to ensure its failure, pass a bill that does not solve any problem, or pass a bill that has no chance of getting through the Senate, all of the above done merely to score political capital.
14
"Refugees from war aren't the enemy." Au contraire! Some of them are.
19
No they're not - and you can't give a single example of it.
This is breaking news. Is there any legitimate intel to that effect or are we supposed to be taking your completely arbitrary, clueless, and bigoted delusion as indisputable fact?
Neither are widows and orphans, claimed the president. Except some are, like the Chechen "black widows." Just ask the Russians.
My concern is not the refugees per se, and my heart goes out to them.
But will we be any more successful is assimilating them and making them part of our society than Europe has been? Part of the problem in Europe is that the children of these migrants are becoming radicalized. And this certainly could and has happened here: the family of the Boston marathon bombers originally came here seeking political asylum. How should this concern be weighed against the values and traditions that this country represents and strives to maintain?
It is not so much that I am in fear of All refugees or think that they are all terrorists. I just think that some sort of discussion on what this will look like long term does need to be respectfully included in this debate, and not simply dismissed as being xenophobic and heartless.
But will we be any more successful is assimilating them and making them part of our society than Europe has been? Part of the problem in Europe is that the children of these migrants are becoming radicalized. And this certainly could and has happened here: the family of the Boston marathon bombers originally came here seeking political asylum. How should this concern be weighed against the values and traditions that this country represents and strives to maintain?
It is not so much that I am in fear of All refugees or think that they are all terrorists. I just think that some sort of discussion on what this will look like long term does need to be respectfully included in this debate, and not simply dismissed as being xenophobic and heartless.
16
The family of the Boston marathon bombers originally came here seeking political asylum and received it, as well as years of taxpayer support.
Where exactly did your family come from, what did they leave behind, why did they come and did they assimilate.
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free." Perhaps it's merely a statue, a nice piece of art, after all?
This bill may or may not "reflect who Americans are", but it most definitely reflects who its sponsors are.
This bill may or may not "reflect who Americans are", but it most definitely reflects who its sponsors are.
11
Taking in Refugees, who are in fact permanent immigrants, is a fool’s game. The truly humanitarian thing to do is put an end to the cause of the refugee crisis, the Syrian civil war and ISIS.
9
No, most refugees are not our enemies. Not all. Let our compassion be blind and no one in government responsible for who comes into our country as a refugee, and all will be fine - that's the gist of this article. Don't we already have evidence that ISIS has hidden among refugees? Don't we already have evidence that women may be terrorists? Or that young people from war-torn countries may be easily radicalized? Wasn't the Boston Marathon bombing enough of a lesson? Can we not at least say that these are reasons to act with caution and expect that if we do not make boundaries - we will not?
12
I am more afraid of the "Christian" guy in the neighborhood with two semi-automatic assault rifles and three pistols in his house who listens to the hate spewed by Rush Limbaugh on the radio and watches Fox News than any Syrian refugee.
33
Yes, and if you're keeping score at home, since 2000 in the United States:
Americans killed by hand guns and assault rifles - over 400,000
Americans killed by Muslims (including Sept. 11): aprrox. 3,200
Americans killed by hand guns and assault rifles - over 400,000
Americans killed by Muslims (including Sept. 11): aprrox. 3,200
Demagogues always exploit the emotions of the population, to go behind their backs and commit terrible crimes, like invading Iraq. If Americans can remember the Iraq war and the demagogic display of nuclear weapons, lies about Saddam's support of Al Qaeda, the UN presentation about fabricated weapons of mass destruction and then realize that BUSH was a demagogue who manipulated America and lied to get us into an illegal war, then we may be spared this effort by Republicans to manipulate fear to undermine our President, so distrust, and cause another war.
Treating refugees like we treated Jewish refugees in WWII is shameful and it is also part of the plan ISIS has to foster fear and hatred against all Muslims. "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort." Opposition to a policy that provides aid to our ISIS enemy gets dangerously close.
Treating refugees like we treated Jewish refugees in WWII is shameful and it is also part of the plan ISIS has to foster fear and hatred against all Muslims. "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort." Opposition to a policy that provides aid to our ISIS enemy gets dangerously close.
7
I suggest a refugee exchange.
Let's forcibly expel Bush II, Cheney, Rice, Wolfowitz, and all the rest of their cabal and I would be more than happy to take in an equivalent number in their place.
We harbor war criminals that have yet to face their day in court.
Let's forcibly expel Bush II, Cheney, Rice, Wolfowitz, and all the rest of their cabal and I would be more than happy to take in an equivalent number in their place.
We harbor war criminals that have yet to face their day in court.
Right!
3
Sure we have to screen them but we can't trust Republicans they only want to use the screening process new bill (HR 4038) to hinder the rescue effort.
6
Oh please. They are screened and screened and screened and screened, months and months and months of screening.
This is not a simple or typical refugee situation. Refugees from war aren't usually the enemy, but in this case, almost certainly contain the enemy. The percentage of Syrians who support ISIL is staggering. ISIL has said and demonstrated that they will infiltrate the ranks of refugees. This is not a forensic issue. The ability of the US government to screen Syrian refugees is quite debatable, however - one need look farther than failures at the TSA to become quite concerned about over-promising and under-delivering. And to suggest that more restricted refugee policies will aid in terror recruitment is incredibly naive - jihadists have contempt for the West and want separation from it. They can't rail against xenophobia when they market it.
20
What else would a Republican propose if not to create a program that would require a huge increase in the size of government and hundreds of millions of dollars for something destined to fail and divert. Even the great and powerful Oz of bloviation Donald Trump couldn't afford to pay for all the bombs required to drown out the sounds of his gasbag pronouncements. There are ways to protect America and to fight terrorists but this is definitely not one of them regardless of how much Republicans are interested in expanding government, increasing the debt, and blaming each other for failed attempts to use bombs instead of brains.
5
A program that would require a huge increase in he size of government and hundreds of millions of dollars for something destined to fail and divert?
Thank goodness Obama never did that. (See Obamacare) Right?
Hypocrisy, thy party is Democrat.
Thank goodness Obama never did that. (See Obamacare) Right?
Hypocrisy, thy party is Democrat.
3
Because there ARE impostors in this world. You can't rationalize from an armchair, you can't tell by appearance. Terrorists can look just like you or me.
Sadly, your entire premise is wrong. At the conclusion of the Op Ed it states, " This bill doesn’t reflect who Americans are, and congressional leaders should have the good sense to realize that. ". This bill does accurately reflect who America is today and exactly what Congress and the GOP stand for. Just look at how popular politically it has become to bash immigrants who live and work in the US! Donald Trump shouts the vilest xenophobic proposals and he is leading the GOP Presidential polls. Let's face it, America is not and may never be the beacon of light, that shining hill it once was because its leaders and many who support them have turned their backs on what America stands for and means to the rest of world. Imagine an America built on the backs of immigrants , celebrated in its most beautiful song , God Bless America, written by a Jewish Russian immigrant , refusing to allow women, children and the elderly fleeing a war zone where they are being killed, tortured and raped refuge!
9
We all favor effective defense against potential terrorists. But few of us know what is effective and what is not. The government has not been forthcoming in disclosing the particulars in this regard. The claimed need for mass collection of information, CIA torture, and surveillance of suspect citizens have all been deemed excessive. Now we are told that vetting refugees is also excessive. It is not clear whether the government's tendency to keep us largely in the dark about security matters serves a legitimate purpose. But it is clear that an uninformed public does not serve the interests of democracy.
38
That is exactly how we got Obama.
Rep Michael McCaul of Texas exercise to keep everyone safe would be noteworthy and genuine if he would apply the same standard to his constituents and guarantee that none of them will be involved in any type of violent crime during his tenure in congress.
6
This editorial can be summed up in a single word: delusional. "About 2 percent are single males of combat age." France has 6.2 million Muslims, yet eight or 0.00013% of the Muslim population carried out the attacks the other day.
19
Those calling for extra caution with respect to Syrian and Iraqi refugees are the same ones who have taken the strongest stand against immigration, in general. Their claimed security concerns are an excuse for their nativist beliefs.
4
And what's wrong with being a Nativist?
It is foolish to think these people can be properly vetted. What government investigator is going to their hometown's municipal building and checking records against applicants docs? None. BTW, forged Syrian documents are a booming business........
Add to this IS has said they are going to use these pathways to put fighters in our country. As the heinous attacks on Parisians shows IS does what it says it's going to do.
It is foolish to think these people can be properly vetted. What government investigator is going to their hometown's municipal building and checking records against applicants docs? None. BTW, forged Syrian documents are a booming business........
Add to this IS has said they are going to use these pathways to put fighters in our country. As the heinous attacks on Parisians shows IS does what it says it's going to do.
9
Two thoughts:
1)They are non-combatants fleeing the battle space. That's a good thing both militarily and politically. They will require shelter, protection, food, and education for their young.
2) Don't those that would refuse these people in need know that the crisis will some day end and they will have to live with themselves?
1)They are non-combatants fleeing the battle space. That's a good thing both militarily and politically. They will require shelter, protection, food, and education for their young.
2) Don't those that would refuse these people in need know that the crisis will some day end and they will have to live with themselves?
6
We have heard fear mongering from the Republican Governors, and from Congress - we need leadership from Progressive forces and where better for it to come from than CT and NY? Perhaps Cuomo can pull together with Dalasi and with Malloy and offer to settle all 100,000 Syrians offered refugee status by Obama right here in the CT/NY/NYC area? Waive enhanced screening, get them drivers licenses right away, social services, and healthcare and get them settled with their families. Lead the immigration effort. Show what we can do when we try. Add these 100,000 to the wonderful melting pot that is the greater NYC area, and watch the vitality and economic activity spread and let this sort of program be a model for a new Ellis Island type immigration wave, from Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq - the whole Middle East.
2
Here in CT, we have a gapping budget deficit and Governor Malloy annoucing cuts to health and education programs, transportation and local aid. We already have one of the highest tax burdens in the country and a stagnant economy. Yet, Malloy feels free to welcome more and more of those requiring social services. How is that 'progressive' to the citizens of CT?
2
The US government is so incompetent that there is no way they could guarantee that these refugees could be properly vetted. If even one terrorist gets through then it's not worth it to bring these people here.
10
"worth it..." The apex of the free-market!
Jeb Bush has made the outrageous suggestion that we accept only Christian refugees. Perhaps the next move in his immigration policy would be to deport only those undocumented immigrants who are not Christian. And then perhaps he will want to take a closer look even at those who were born here who are not Christian.
7
There is nothing outrageous about it; the Christians of Syria have been singled out for their own special atrocities by ISIS and they find little comfort or safe haven in the surrounding Muslim countries.
8
Are you aware that federal law REQUIRES that the religious affiliation of an asylum seeker be identified and that factors of religious persecution determine whether asylum is warranted?
section 1158 of Title 8, U.S. Code: the applicant "must establish that … religion [among other things] … was or will be at least one central reason for persecuting the applicant."
Christians in the Middle East are indeed more vulnerable to religious persecution than Muslims (as are Jews in Muslim lands)
section 1158 of Title 8, U.S. Code: the applicant "must establish that … religion [among other things] … was or will be at least one central reason for persecuting the applicant."
Christians in the Middle East are indeed more vulnerable to religious persecution than Muslims (as are Jews in Muslim lands)
5
First, for perspective, let's admit that our gun problem is orders of magnitude worse than the problem of terrorism. Right-wingers in Congress should be held accountable for supporting the gun manufacturers over the lives of Americans.
As for terrorism, the Editorial Board and most liberals are looking at the problem the wrong way.
Name calling ("pandering to the xenophobia") demonstrates a weak argument.
Terrorists "more often already live here". True. They are often the sons and daughters of nice people.
The error is thinking in terms of individual immigrants and refugees instead of in terms of religion and ethnicity.
To protect our families, we need to halt the immigration of Muslims, particularly from the Middle East. The nice women and children you refer to may someday be the parents of terrorists. On that day, The NYT will interview the parents and they will say they have no idea what happened to their loving child.
This liberal editorial has little to do with fighting global terror. Instead, it panders to people who have an unrealistic view of the present nature of terrorism, which is rooted in Islam.
As for terrorism, the Editorial Board and most liberals are looking at the problem the wrong way.
Name calling ("pandering to the xenophobia") demonstrates a weak argument.
Terrorists "more often already live here". True. They are often the sons and daughters of nice people.
The error is thinking in terms of individual immigrants and refugees instead of in terms of religion and ethnicity.
To protect our families, we need to halt the immigration of Muslims, particularly from the Middle East. The nice women and children you refer to may someday be the parents of terrorists. On that day, The NYT will interview the parents and they will say they have no idea what happened to their loving child.
This liberal editorial has little to do with fighting global terror. Instead, it panders to people who have an unrealistic view of the present nature of terrorism, which is rooted in Islam.
9
Correct me if I'm wrong, but just the other day you stated, did you not, that Islam is a "religion of peace"? Now you're saying that the United States should base immigration policy on religion, in violation of the Constitution, because, self-contradictorily, you claim that terrorism is rooted in the very religion you previously said was nonviolent. It's nonsense to equate Islam with terrorism; the kind of essentialist analysis that does this is perilous.
The truth is that Islam is NEITHER a religion of peace NOR a religion of violence. It takes any number of different forms and can be interpreted and adhered to in any number of different ways, much like Christianity. Samuel Huntington's "clash of civilizations" thesis hasn't been entirely well-received by academics, but I don't think it's altogether wrong. And I'm not surprised that when people who live in a very different environment, who are brought up on tales of the glory days of Islam, whose culture is patriarchal, and who hold traditionalist values, bump up against modernity there's resentment, confusion, and backlash.
But I'm getting off the subject. Suffice it to say, we can scarcely afford to make Islam the enemy. The people who are doing the vetting (who include the CIA) will not put American lives in jeopardy. They do a great job. The public has a rather understandable fear of Islam, considering what they see on television. But we cannot turn our backs on Muslims and betray our values because of public hysteria.
The truth is that Islam is NEITHER a religion of peace NOR a religion of violence. It takes any number of different forms and can be interpreted and adhered to in any number of different ways, much like Christianity. Samuel Huntington's "clash of civilizations" thesis hasn't been entirely well-received by academics, but I don't think it's altogether wrong. And I'm not surprised that when people who live in a very different environment, who are brought up on tales of the glory days of Islam, whose culture is patriarchal, and who hold traditionalist values, bump up against modernity there's resentment, confusion, and backlash.
But I'm getting off the subject. Suffice it to say, we can scarcely afford to make Islam the enemy. The people who are doing the vetting (who include the CIA) will not put American lives in jeopardy. They do a great job. The public has a rather understandable fear of Islam, considering what they see on television. But we cannot turn our backs on Muslims and betray our values because of public hysteria.
1
>
All well an good, but beware of this.
If the GOP can, and they will try to, turn this election from one of domestic issues to one of fear and terrorism, the Dems are in big trouble.
The GOP is already trying to blame Obama for Paris. Ref: Sunday talk shows.
Always remember this and never forget it: the GOP can have a terrorist attack on its watch and everyone will rally around them including Liberals & Dems and praise them for years to come. They're actually proud of standing on "the rubble" of the largest terrorist attack in history. But if a Dem POTUS has one on his watch, or if an ISIS person so much as steals a frozen Turkey from a supermarket (exaggerated to make a point), they'll run Obama out of town on a rail; such is the way politics is played in this country.
Bush had all kinds of warnings.......This according to the CIA....
Ref: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/11/cia-directors-documentary...
Obama cannot afford to be too cool here. If the other shoe falls here, the GOP will be like a pack of rabid hyenas.
You can bet your house that some GOP strategists are already planning their response should we get hit next.
Moreover, if an attack comes from just one of these people, it is game over for the dems. The country is at a strategic tipping point between a liberal society and a fascist one. America is not a country of the brave.
All well an good, but beware of this.
If the GOP can, and they will try to, turn this election from one of domestic issues to one of fear and terrorism, the Dems are in big trouble.
The GOP is already trying to blame Obama for Paris. Ref: Sunday talk shows.
Always remember this and never forget it: the GOP can have a terrorist attack on its watch and everyone will rally around them including Liberals & Dems and praise them for years to come. They're actually proud of standing on "the rubble" of the largest terrorist attack in history. But if a Dem POTUS has one on his watch, or if an ISIS person so much as steals a frozen Turkey from a supermarket (exaggerated to make a point), they'll run Obama out of town on a rail; such is the way politics is played in this country.
Bush had all kinds of warnings.......This according to the CIA....
Ref: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/11/cia-directors-documentary...
Obama cannot afford to be too cool here. If the other shoe falls here, the GOP will be like a pack of rabid hyenas.
You can bet your house that some GOP strategists are already planning their response should we get hit next.
Moreover, if an attack comes from just one of these people, it is game over for the dems. The country is at a strategic tipping point between a liberal society and a fascist one. America is not a country of the brave.
10
I am so glad Obama is still our president, and I worry what will happen when one of these hateful, fear-mongering, mean-spirited GOP clowns gets into the Oval office come January 2017. They can do more damage to our security and world peace in general with their power than any terrorist organization can ever dream of.
13
Not when. If. The next election is all about the Supreme Court, not terrorism.
Some commentators like Naomi in New England are comparing the current refugee crisis with the Jewish refugees of the 30s and 40s which were denied entry. Many of those refugees were soon killed by the Nazis. The guilt felt by good people is understandable.
The difference is that the Jewish refugees that tried to enter the US in the 30s and 40s did not have a terrorist problem in their ranks.
The Jews is Germany were well educated and quite successful. Many of the Jews from Poland and other countries were not necessarily well educated but were simple hard working people with no history of violence. The fact that the US closed its doors back then may have a lot to do with the strong push on the left to accept refugees now.
However there is a major difference in this case. Syria is a breeding ground for extremism and fanatical Islam. Even if this editorial is correct in its assertion that only 2% are men (which is a huge leap), then 200 of the refugees are men. If only 10% of those men are radical that's 20 radical Muslims that will now live in the US.
That's more men than were needed in France last Friday. And we all know how hard it is to acquire guns in America.
The difference is that the Jewish refugees that tried to enter the US in the 30s and 40s did not have a terrorist problem in their ranks.
The Jews is Germany were well educated and quite successful. Many of the Jews from Poland and other countries were not necessarily well educated but were simple hard working people with no history of violence. The fact that the US closed its doors back then may have a lot to do with the strong push on the left to accept refugees now.
However there is a major difference in this case. Syria is a breeding ground for extremism and fanatical Islam. Even if this editorial is correct in its assertion that only 2% are men (which is a huge leap), then 200 of the refugees are men. If only 10% of those men are radical that's 20 radical Muslims that will now live in the US.
That's more men than were needed in France last Friday. And we all know how hard it is to acquire guns in America.
14
reply to Long Islander: You stated: The Syrian refugees "have a terrorist problem in their ranks"? I wasn't aware those who actually carried out the tragedy in Paris were refugees? The only "report" of one being a refugee came from an un-named Greek source which no one else have corroborated.
3
Donna:
Are you aware those who actually carried out the 'tragedy' (now there's a euphemism for terrorism) in Boston were refugees?
Are you aware those who actually carried out the 'tragedy' (now there's a euphemism for terrorism) in Boston were refugees?
Well said: "However, opposing the bill allows certain people to assert their righteousness, and unfortunately, that is the main goal of many people in our society."
2
If there are no security questions about Syrian and Iraqi refugees, then why will none be relocating to Washington DC?
9
Meet the "Me only" America, which represents those who indignantly squash the hopes or rights of others to make themselves feel like they're getting what they deserve, even in the form of false safety. In a country where thousands die each year at the hands of guns held by other citizens, and in a party which obstructs any attempt to regulate those weapons (including automatic rifles like the ones just used in Paris), we have this pandering to the xenophobes.
Paul Ryan's budget numbers never added up, and neither does his "one out of 10,000" Syrians being a terrorist being one too many. We have more domestic terrorists, or sympathizers radicalized to believe in the ISIS way of life that will some day return home and try to wreak havoc. HR 4038 is despicable on its face because it reveals the majority party in this country to be racist. Obama is correct - the world is watching, and now wondering what this country has become. Ryan and the rest - just disgusting.
Paul Ryan's budget numbers never added up, and neither does his "one out of 10,000" Syrians being a terrorist being one too many. We have more domestic terrorists, or sympathizers radicalized to believe in the ISIS way of life that will some day return home and try to wreak havoc. HR 4038 is despicable on its face because it reveals the majority party in this country to be racist. Obama is correct - the world is watching, and now wondering what this country has become. Ryan and the rest - just disgusting.
7
John, the US has been 'me only' for a long time. When the legal system routinely holds different politically advantaged groups of people to different legal standards and government uses taxpayer money to buy influence as a matter of course, there is no social cohesion. There is no 'Us'.
4
They're refuse to fight for their country, no loyalty. What makes anyone think they'll be loyal to our country?
10
The Syrian refugees are overwhelmingly women and children.
2
SMB: 80% of the refugees are young males.
And ISIS has members who are the children of refugees from the US. The Minneapolis Somali community is where most of them were raised.
And ISIS has members who are the children of refugees from the US. The Minneapolis Somali community is where most of them were raised.
Tell them which armed group to join, and give them a compelling argument.
In times of instability and crisis, congress and politicians traditionally set aside any disagreements with the POTUS and present a unified front to the world and most especially, our enemies. This show of support is even more significant when the POTUS is abroad as Obama is currently. However, Republicans are exploiting the terrorist attacks in France as orchestrated political fodder to disparage and denigrate Obama's policies. That is extremely unpatriotic and counterproductive, playing into the terrorists objective to shame and humiliate the United States. Very disappointing and misguided behavior.
5
Once again alleged "progressives" take every opportunity to posture narcissistically, enthralled with their own virtue and seeking to cast anyone to the right of them as evil, stupid or both. The narcissism is extraordinary. But if the Times board and others would stop looking in the mirror they might recognize that a review of current screening of applicants for admission to the US is timely and that the US public, like those in Europe, needs demonstrable measures to assure security. Further, current bureaucratic procedures are inept and heir efficacy won't be known for a long time given the timelines seen in the past for "sleeper" cells of terrorists. Nonetheless all the Times and its chorus produce is self congratulatory drivel.
12
I like Chris Matthews's idea: set up a no-fly zone in Syria. Evverybody shares the costs and contributes resources. After isn't that like the state of Israel? Matthews also suggests that we train able young Syrian refugees as soldiers to fight for their own country.
5
They are not necessarily friends either. A look at how well they have integrated, how well they have adopted the main values of the US (or France, England, etc) is a good clue as to how future immigrants will behave. When neighborhoods become off limits to "outsiders", when immigrants demand that their adopted country bow to the values of the country they left, when it becomes dangerous to walk by or live near a mosque, it then becomes legitimate to question whether we want to permit more people with similar attitudes to enter.
The question is not whether their country is at war - but whether this country needs to admit them and whether they can be better settled in a country whose values are closer to their own.
The question is not whether their country is at war - but whether this country needs to admit them and whether they can be better settled in a country whose values are closer to their own.
13
I see no reason why male refugees of an age to do so, can't be "drafted" into our military for training to go back and fight for their country.
Until there is a stable replacement government in Syria we will be faced with another unstable country in the Middle East. If we indeed destroy ISIS, there will be another militant group to replace it.
As far as women, children and the elderly refugees, I think we should welcome them with open arms. How to get a group of people ready to kill us? Treat them the way we are now.
Until there is a stable replacement government in Syria we will be faced with another unstable country in the Middle East. If we indeed destroy ISIS, there will be another militant group to replace it.
As far as women, children and the elderly refugees, I think we should welcome them with open arms. How to get a group of people ready to kill us? Treat them the way we are now.
2
Some of the Paris terrorists were women.
8
Perhaps Maine would like to offer to support all those 'women, children and the elderly refugees', who will spend their lives on welfare.
One of this editorial's points I take issue with its detailing how many women and children come from Iraq and Syria, as if they are all innocent. As we have already seen, ISIS uses woman as operatives, and it's training children early on in its ideology and methods of execution.
However, that is no reason to reject all refugees. The rational view says we cannot ever be completely safe, the greatest threat comes not from foreigners, and the conditions that make Europe so vulnerable do not exist here.
We should continue investigating all refugee requests and remain vigilant against all threats, especially those who have already demonstrated their danger - white American males with guns.
However, that is no reason to reject all refugees. The rational view says we cannot ever be completely safe, the greatest threat comes not from foreigners, and the conditions that make Europe so vulnerable do not exist here.
We should continue investigating all refugee requests and remain vigilant against all threats, especially those who have already demonstrated their danger - white American males with guns.
4
At least one of the Paris terrorists was a refugee. We should not let Muslim refugees enter this country. We don't need another Boston atrocity.
9
Or a repeat of 9/11.
5
None of the suspects in the Paris attacks have been confirmed as refugees. Of the 8 that have been identified, all were EU citizens. The Boston bombers were both American citizens.
5
Eric: They were refugees first. And you are making our point: We shouldn't be bringing in any Muslims from foreign countries as even the ones that because me "Americanized" can become radical terrorists.
8
Now that ISIS has threatened NYC, the Times editors can put their immigration theories to the test. Good luck.
13
I know the Times can't resist the usual "when in doubt blame the Republicans" talking points but why take chances?? Look at all of these young men of military age fleeing Syria--what if ISIS sympathizers have already infiltrated their ranks just waiting for the right moment to strike? Hey, it's possible. Does America want to take the chance of experiencing a repeat of 9/11 terrorist attacks again?
12
Politicians at it again with their always 'do something'. Question? How do you vett people when you cannot verify their documents, if any, are real? The idea that none of this refugees could be an enemy is pure nonsense.
15
If the "SAFE" act goes through, it's a victory for the terrorists. Not only are innocent Syrian families looking for a safe home the victim of this bill, it sends out the signal that Americans are afraid of the terrorists.
Let's not forget that the major mistake leading up to the Paris attack was not the basic kind of intelligence (the terrorists were known as risk elements to Belgian, French and US intelligence!) but in following their whereabouts after arrival.
FYI Belgium announced actions to address the latter today, one of them is immediate incarceration of returning Daesh fighters.
Let's not forget that the major mistake leading up to the Paris attack was not the basic kind of intelligence (the terrorists were known as risk elements to Belgian, French and US intelligence!) but in following their whereabouts after arrival.
FYI Belgium announced actions to address the latter today, one of them is immediate incarceration of returning Daesh fighters.
3
Refugees from war are not our enemies,
but does that make them allies or pleasant guests ?
We both want the Islamists and Assad to be extinguish, but many of the refugees nevertheless deny our society or consider us as decadent and inferior. Do they accept that the constitution of a nation stands above the Quran, especially in a nation that was forged by christians, and struggled for decades for this social contract, that forms our society.
Refugees are not without liabilities, we know what can go wrong with muslim refugees, we expect them to obey our laws and respect our culture.
Nevertheless i think we should and could do more for the refugees, and they are falsely vilified. Many of the muslims coming to europe, and especially those from syria, but also from afghanistan and other countries, are reflecting their situation in a way we expect them to do.
We simply must make case-by-case review and still provide a society that is willing to defend its culture.
but does that make them allies or pleasant guests ?
We both want the Islamists and Assad to be extinguish, but many of the refugees nevertheless deny our society or consider us as decadent and inferior. Do they accept that the constitution of a nation stands above the Quran, especially in a nation that was forged by christians, and struggled for decades for this social contract, that forms our society.
Refugees are not without liabilities, we know what can go wrong with muslim refugees, we expect them to obey our laws and respect our culture.
Nevertheless i think we should and could do more for the refugees, and they are falsely vilified. Many of the muslims coming to europe, and especially those from syria, but also from afghanistan and other countries, are reflecting their situation in a way we expect them to do.
We simply must make case-by-case review and still provide a society that is willing to defend its culture.
2
I was on the fence until Paris. Recently in Europe, I felt the confusion and anxiety, fear and resentment refugees created. Many of them, especially the young men, looked well-dressed and not in any substantial distress. I found that surprising and puzzling. This is not your typical refugee crisis as far as I can tell. I'm sympathetic with people truly at risk and running from death and disaster. I am not, however, willing to accept that we should simply open our doors and turn a blind eye to an obvious risk. Screening is necessary and should be a requirement.
11
According to the article screening already occurs, screening that can take anywhere from between 18 months and two years to complete and which ultimately ends up admitting mostly children and seniors. Do you disbelieve this assertion?
4
H.R. 4038 is NOT about security. It is about winning the admiration of Americans by appealing to their hatred, anger, and paranoia.
I see no difference between a Mafia Protection racket and the Republican leadership.
I see no difference between a Mafia Protection racket and the Republican leadership.
5
I simply do not feel any obligation whatsoever to lend a helping hand to these social opportunists looking for free stuff under the guise of being 'refugee'. Let us go beyond the obligatory security checks and consider the typical Syrian family's lifestyle choices : women repressed under the veil, reduced to the domestic sphere as baby machines to satisfy peculiar cultural traditions which fly in the face of managing a family budget in 21st century America. President Obama is taking a very muscular stance on this issue merely out of vanity-- he so deeply desires to end his second presidential term on a positive, 'humanistic' note. Unwittingly, he will also ensure a GOP win in the White House in 2016, for better or worse.
13
How can you possibly vet someone when they have no electronic past? Would you believe any records from Assad's regime? Mr. Assad won't even allow Syria's information made available to the US. It's like trying to vet a caveman, no paperwork.
13
The Times Editorial board knows fully well that most of these "refugees" aren't women, children or families, its able-bodied young men looking for work. They went straight to Germany where the work supposedly is, truth is as many warned here long ago, the Germans wouldn't be able to handle the refugees, and resentment would build from the local population given the fact billions of dollars are being spent on them, jobs that could have gone to local Germans are going to them, and housing is also going to them depriving current German homeless a chance for shelter. FACTS conveniently avoided just so the Times could claim a moral high ground. There is no moral high ground when you deprive your own homeless, unemployed people a home, and a job. The Times, Merkel, Obama, and Hollande seem to think otherwise. Good leaders- NO; Fools- YES!!
13
It's helpful to know that the Syrians now entering had to wait in refugee camps for two years. The ones accepted by the US consist 98% of women, children & elderly, not young men like you might recently have seen on TV. Real terrorists would just enter on an EU passport & tourist visa, instead of facing the 18-month delay and intense scrutiny of a UN refugee application.
I think a lot of the emotion on both sides comes simply from how we see ourselves and what we fear. For many people, the Syrians look and sound much like the terrorists wreaking mayhem on the innocent. It is terrifyng to think of them here among us. So the impulse is to keep them out.
I can't help but see it very differently. My family is Jewish; my father fled Berlin in the mid-1930's to Central America, and later the U.S. When I look at the Syrians, I don't see terrorists. I see a family like my father's, and all the relatives driven by violence from country to country. It could have been me dispossessed of home, country and safety, hoping for refuge in a faraway land. My fear that we will turn them away.
I think a lot of the emotion on both sides comes simply from how we see ourselves and what we fear. For many people, the Syrians look and sound much like the terrorists wreaking mayhem on the innocent. It is terrifyng to think of them here among us. So the impulse is to keep them out.
I can't help but see it very differently. My family is Jewish; my father fled Berlin in the mid-1930's to Central America, and later the U.S. When I look at the Syrians, I don't see terrorists. I see a family like my father's, and all the relatives driven by violence from country to country. It could have been me dispossessed of home, country and safety, hoping for refuge in a faraway land. My fear that we will turn them away.
174
You have a point but are very naive about anti Semitism in Middle Eastern culture.
Ironic that in parts of Europe, Jews cannot walk safely on the streets any more.
Your vision is faulty, I see a family much better served by being returned to their previous life, not in the US forever. Many of them will be poor, difficult to live in our country and basically outcasts or trouble makers.
Why does the NY Time's Editorial Board willfully ignore the specific threat from ISIS that it will deliberately use Syrian immigrants as a cover to export potential terrorists to both Europe and the United States?
16
Refugees from a war can sometimes be an enemy. Former Nazi collaborators disguised their past and adopted more palatable identities when completing their immigration papers. Appropriate vetting and checks need to continue when deciding who comes in.
People are sympathetic to the Middle Eastern refugees languishing in UNHCR camps, particularly Yazidis, Christians and other minority groups, and would like to see them resettled in the West. When advocates mention the plight of these minorities, pundits and politicians argue against a cherry picking policy. However, why do we want to force them to live in a region that is increasingly hostile towards any type of diversity? Unlike the Sunni and Shia Muslim refugees, these minorities really have no place to go.
Migration is getting more complex with genuine concerns about security and how it reshapes the sociopolitical, economic, and cultural landscape. We need to have a constructive debate, and find the courage to work out a consensus. Then it can be an opportunity for growth and promoting positive universal values, not an obstacle.
People are sympathetic to the Middle Eastern refugees languishing in UNHCR camps, particularly Yazidis, Christians and other minority groups, and would like to see them resettled in the West. When advocates mention the plight of these minorities, pundits and politicians argue against a cherry picking policy. However, why do we want to force them to live in a region that is increasingly hostile towards any type of diversity? Unlike the Sunni and Shia Muslim refugees, these minorities really have no place to go.
Migration is getting more complex with genuine concerns about security and how it reshapes the sociopolitical, economic, and cultural landscape. We need to have a constructive debate, and find the courage to work out a consensus. Then it can be an opportunity for growth and promoting positive universal values, not an obstacle.
4
The rage, the brutal killings, the fanatic war cries that are radiating out from the Middle East and reaching all corners of the globe, have been laid to past failings of Western policy in the region. Certainly, the aggressive imperialism of European powers in the 19th century left in it’s wake a region disillusioned with its own past and incapable of making a quantum leap into the present. As long as tyrants filled the political vacuum, a modicum of order was maintained. When the population exploded in protest in the “Arab Spring”, all restraints disappeared. The hate and anger won’t be assuaged by force of arms. It will play itself out over time. The West will pay the price of rehabilitating the destruction and providing for the millions of refugees.
The time is now to visualize the area when the frenzy is exhausted. How and by what means can viable lasting societies be built out of the rubble? Models based on the western tradition are patently inapplicable. Some new synthesis including both the traditional values and the current aspirations of the peoples involved is necessary.
The time is now to visualize the area when the frenzy is exhausted. How and by what means can viable lasting societies be built out of the rubble? Models based on the western tradition are patently inapplicable. Some new synthesis including both the traditional values and the current aspirations of the peoples involved is necessary.
What can you expect from the party that invaded Iraq after a bunch of Saudi Arabians, working out of Afghanistan, attacked the World Trade Center and Pentagon?
It's like the guy who was looking under a street light for his keys, even though he lost them down the street. Another guy asks: "why are you looking here if you lost them down the street?". First guy says "the light is better here".
Posturing is easier than dealing with the problem. The FOX crowd will eat it up!
It's like the guy who was looking under a street light for his keys, even though he lost them down the street. Another guy asks: "why are you looking here if you lost them down the street?". First guy says "the light is better here".
Posturing is easier than dealing with the problem. The FOX crowd will eat it up!
2
The Bill has nothing to do with national security and is more grandstanding of the hateful and vicious towards the most vulnerable of the world's populations. The GOP has always been adept at manipulating fear and ignorance and Paris has given them the material for their war on immigrants.
The further suggestions that we admit only those who can prove they are "Christians" is the precursor to religious testing for admission. Perhaps we can set up Ted Cruz as our Grand Inquisitor for I.C.E. to determine who the "true" Christians are?
The further suggestions that we admit only those who can prove they are "Christians" is the precursor to religious testing for admission. Perhaps we can set up Ted Cruz as our Grand Inquisitor for I.C.E. to determine who the "true" Christians are?
3
White guy guns down dozens in gun attack and he is a lone wolf, we cannot take any action against guns in this country because of the actions of one crazy guy. Muslim kills dozens in bomb and gun attack, we need to seal our borders to keep all Muslims out. While doing that, can we seal the gun nuts out, too? They pose a far greater statistical threat. With the attitude of those who would deny refuge, perhaps it's time to tear down the Statue of Liberty as she seems to have lost her meaning.
3
Why must Republicans lie and distort truth? Why are they compelled to confuse, deflect, and solve problems that do not exist? So much wasted effort, time, money and talent when there are real problems to solve. So much wasted media, not only on Fox but in esteemed media like the NY Times, which must remain vigilant and call out a House determined to fritter away US citizens' tax dollars on a side show pandering to a voter base drawn to false solutions like a moth to a flame. Net, I am far less safe and secure when Republicans try to vet Syrian children, widows and elderly instead of real security threats. Thank goodness Obama is there to stop them with a veto. In the meantime homegrown terrorists and angry young white guys are plotting their next move.
2
The term "refugee" used by all the media does not cover the facts anymore. People have fled from Syria and Iraq mainly into Turkey and other neighbouring countries. In this sense they had been "refugees". Leaving their host-country Turkey and intruding unlawfully and even violently into Turkey's European neighbours' territories in order to exchange a third or fourth-class provider for a first class social security set-up is the reality we are all faced with presently. Neither the U.S.A. nor Europe is under any obligation to support and condone, leave alone to finance this sham.
8
Val in Brooklyn, NY
Several thoughts.
1. Locks don't keep burglars out, they keep the so-called protected ones in; i.e., if a terrorist wants in, they WILL find a way in.
2. I've more fear of gun violence, U.S. born terrorists, drunk drivers and these governors whom Ryan is coddling-enabling--as well as the Republicans running for president, than I do of any refugee coming here.
3. Someone had a good point re: unemployment. How will these already suffering people find work here, when lots of Americans can't? I ask, not from cruelty but genuine worry for them and all of us.
4. A little history review-question with Turkey Day coming aka National Day of Mourning for Aboriginal Inhabitants of Turtle Island aka the U.S.A.: How much vetting and refusal did the Aboriginal Inhabitants do of new arrivals, at least compared to what the House is considering now?
Submitted 11-19-15@2:32 a.m. EST
Several thoughts.
1. Locks don't keep burglars out, they keep the so-called protected ones in; i.e., if a terrorist wants in, they WILL find a way in.
2. I've more fear of gun violence, U.S. born terrorists, drunk drivers and these governors whom Ryan is coddling-enabling--as well as the Republicans running for president, than I do of any refugee coming here.
3. Someone had a good point re: unemployment. How will these already suffering people find work here, when lots of Americans can't? I ask, not from cruelty but genuine worry for them and all of us.
4. A little history review-question with Turkey Day coming aka National Day of Mourning for Aboriginal Inhabitants of Turtle Island aka the U.S.A.: How much vetting and refusal did the Aboriginal Inhabitants do of new arrivals, at least compared to what the House is considering now?
Submitted 11-19-15@2:32 a.m. EST
2
I am totally perplexed about why this situation is not compared to the holocaust.
Millions of Jewish, homosexual folks and other undesirables were forced to flee Eastern and Western Europe under threat of extinction.
There is a Statue in New York Harbor that defines what makes America great. Yet Germany, France, Greece, Italy and Turkey are willing to help these poor souls.
But the US is fighting tooth and nail about taking 10,000 of the 4 million refugees because one may be a terrorist.
In the US, American born terrorist have killed many Americans. We have the greatest intel in the world and we can't help a young mother with her 5 year old son start a new life in the US?
Can you imagine how a world that has seen the Bush Doctrine literally blow up the middle east denying aid to a few thousand of the victims WE created.
And how would 3/4's of a BILLION people (worldwide) who are muslims side with if they had a choice between an uncaring aggressor (US) along with an unwilling nation to heal (US.)
They would be more willing to believe ISIS propaganda and become our enemies.
For every Syrian refugee we admit, we create a ripple effect that says the United States is a force for good, not evil.
But our cowardly politicians and their cowardly supporters run from the chance to be a nation of greatness.
"The only thing we have to fear is fear itself." The man who said that won a war. We have become cowards, greedy beyond belief, and stupid.
God help us.
Millions of Jewish, homosexual folks and other undesirables were forced to flee Eastern and Western Europe under threat of extinction.
There is a Statue in New York Harbor that defines what makes America great. Yet Germany, France, Greece, Italy and Turkey are willing to help these poor souls.
But the US is fighting tooth and nail about taking 10,000 of the 4 million refugees because one may be a terrorist.
In the US, American born terrorist have killed many Americans. We have the greatest intel in the world and we can't help a young mother with her 5 year old son start a new life in the US?
Can you imagine how a world that has seen the Bush Doctrine literally blow up the middle east denying aid to a few thousand of the victims WE created.
And how would 3/4's of a BILLION people (worldwide) who are muslims side with if they had a choice between an uncaring aggressor (US) along with an unwilling nation to heal (US.)
They would be more willing to believe ISIS propaganda and become our enemies.
For every Syrian refugee we admit, we create a ripple effect that says the United States is a force for good, not evil.
But our cowardly politicians and their cowardly supporters run from the chance to be a nation of greatness.
"The only thing we have to fear is fear itself." The man who said that won a war. We have become cowards, greedy beyond belief, and stupid.
God help us.
3
'...we create a ripple effect that says the United States is a force for good, not evil...'
We have taken in Muslim refugees and nothing good has come of it for the American people.
At best, we have more people on welfare.
At worst...well, we have Boston and Fort Hood.
We have taken in Muslim refugees and nothing good has come of it for the American people.
At best, we have more people on welfare.
At worst...well, we have Boston and Fort Hood.
I am reminded of the 1940's when both America and Britain turned away thousands of Jewish refugees seeking sanctuary from the Nazis. Far too many were forced to return to oblivion. It was a shame upon us then and now.
These desperate folk are not our enemies, they are our natural allies. And one day, the sons and daughters of these refugees will return to the Middle East and bring pro-Western thought and democracy with them.
These desperate folk are not our enemies, they are our natural allies. And one day, the sons and daughters of these refugees will return to the Middle East and bring pro-Western thought and democracy with them.
4
And "congressional leaders should have the good sense to realize that"!?
Is The Times trying to generate some humor in these days with depressing news?
Is The Times trying to generate some humor in these days with depressing news?
The irony is that Ted Cruz father was a refugee, and he wasn't born in this country.
Marco Rubio's parents weren't citizens when he was born here, but he's happy to claim birthright citizenship.
These guys must laugh and exchange high fives all day at how they are able to convince people to support them using arguments that would have excluded them from even being here in the first place.
Marco Rubio's parents weren't citizens when he was born here, but he's happy to claim birthright citizenship.
These guys must laugh and exchange high fives all day at how they are able to convince people to support them using arguments that would have excluded them from even being here in the first place.
2
Earth calling the NYT editorial board, please descend from orbit!
Millions of refugees are arriving in Europe, 80% of them young men in military age; there is no proof that these are victims of the civil war in Syria, they could just as easily be perpetrators and it is impossible to screen them...in the case of the recent atrocities in Paris one of the perpetrators got into the EU as a refugee with a fake Syrian passport.....
Millions of refugees are arriving in Europe, 80% of them young men in military age; there is no proof that these are victims of the civil war in Syria, they could just as easily be perpetrators and it is impossible to screen them...in the case of the recent atrocities in Paris one of the perpetrators got into the EU as a refugee with a fake Syrian passport.....
5
Republican politicians are rejecting refugees from war zones that they have largely contributed in creating. Supporting the Mujahideen in Afghanistan to fight the Communists has created the Taliban. The unlawful war in Iraq and the backing of so-called Syrian rebels, some of whom belong to branches of al-Qaeda, to bring down the Syrian regime, have enabled the creation and rise of ISIL and allowed the Syrian civil war to fester for more than 4 years. Now Europe has to bear the brunt of these crises, including admission of hundreds of thousands of refugee, and America refuses to help clean up the mess in the Middle East that they have created. As a member of NATO and the primary contributor to these crises, America should man up and take as many refugees as Europe. It is deplorable that most Republican politicians are like parrots, rehashing the same tired, hateful and xenophobic rhetoric. If there are any wise politicians left in the Republican Party, they should try and silence these parrots. Otherwise, the GOP will sink further into irrelevance.
2
"Refuges from war aren't the enemy", We can't know this, as much as we would like, objectively speaking, not for 100% of them. Sorry, but have you heard of the TROJAN HORSE?
As a citizen of the US and a resident of New York, I want the elected leaders to eliminate ANY possible risk of terrorism now, or in 20 years, from some of these people's angry children. Only a handful of people and it's enough to create huge human damage, and personally I don't want t take the risk, and the NYT should not lobby and advocate to confiscate my right to be better safe than sorry in my own country.
As a citizen of the US and a resident of New York, I want the elected leaders to eliminate ANY possible risk of terrorism now, or in 20 years, from some of these people's angry children. Only a handful of people and it's enough to create huge human damage, and personally I don't want t take the risk, and the NYT should not lobby and advocate to confiscate my right to be better safe than sorry in my own country.
7
There isn’t a certain line that shows refugees are enemy or are not. Screening them on the shore is really important but it doesn’t solve or reduce enemy problem.
Establish a new life in new environment for any person is hard and for refugee is harder. Their life after pass the border is more considerable. Far left refugees are most likely exposed by radical group.
Dealing with refugee is continues job that be started from the border to settlement. Categorize them base on gender or age at entrance and leave them alone makes new problems in near future.
Basically refugees are not enemies. Our attitude and wisdom makes friends or not.
Establish a new life in new environment for any person is hard and for refugee is harder. Their life after pass the border is more considerable. Far left refugees are most likely exposed by radical group.
Dealing with refugee is continues job that be started from the border to settlement. Categorize them base on gender or age at entrance and leave them alone makes new problems in near future.
Basically refugees are not enemies. Our attitude and wisdom makes friends or not.
3
Fear is our greatest enemy and the root of all violence. From our point of view we fear the terrorists and from the terrorists point of view they fear everything without any rationality and are willing to commit suicide. Without fear none of this would happen. But let's look at our national figures:
3380 Americans died in terrorist attacks in 12 years
406,000 Americans died from gun violence in 12 years
~6 million Americans died from unintentional falls and poisoning in 10 years
~12 million potential Americans die as aborted fetuses in 10 years
~13 million Americans die in car crashes every 10 years.
Our greatest fear is fear itself
3380 Americans died in terrorist attacks in 12 years
406,000 Americans died from gun violence in 12 years
~6 million Americans died from unintentional falls and poisoning in 10 years
~12 million potential Americans die as aborted fetuses in 10 years
~13 million Americans die in car crashes every 10 years.
Our greatest fear is fear itself
2
A guy walks into a school in the US with an automatic weapon and slaughters children and this same crowd is silent. Not a word on American born and bred terrorism. Shows where their priorities are.
4
Call it what it is: Racism pure and simple. It's not surprising that Republicans want to prevent Arab refugees from coming to America. Just listen to what Republican presidential candidates are saying about Mexican and Latino immigrants. And listen to their glee at the dismantling of civil rights legislation and voting rights legislation by SCOTUS.
3
Islam is a religion, not a race.
That tired liberal yell isn't carrying any weight any more. It's about security and not taking unnecessary chances.
I've already lived through 9/11 and have no desire to repeat past mistakes or taking unnecessary security risks. And there is no reason that a country cannot and should not take steps to protect their borders against invasion, whether that is illegal immigrants or refugees from around the world.
I've already lived through 9/11 and have no desire to repeat past mistakes or taking unnecessary security risks. And there is no reason that a country cannot and should not take steps to protect their borders against invasion, whether that is illegal immigrants or refugees from around the world.
No one knows what's going to happen next. ISIS works that way. Not even the editorial board of this publication. How then, can it be said that such and such precaution is overboard? Such pretention only muddies the waters. From what I can tell, underreaction (progressives) is no more reassuring than overreaction(conservatives). However, perhaps that old axiom from cowboy movies - always sit facing the saloon doors - is worth reflecting on at this time.
3
Since the voters of the United States elected presidents and Congressional personnel who made dangerous decisions to invade and destabilize countries in the Middle East, we owe the victims a chance to live out their lives in peace.
When you read the results of what our nation destroyed in Iraq, the money wasted on useless projects in Afghanistan, we have lost the right to make inhumane decisions for innocent people and create more suffering for them.
It is worth taking a chance on the possibility that dangerous people will come into our country. I am sure the migrants will add skills and abilities to the nation and perhaps set an example of how to improve our own imperfect domestic agenda.
When you read the results of what our nation destroyed in Iraq, the money wasted on useless projects in Afghanistan, we have lost the right to make inhumane decisions for innocent people and create more suffering for them.
It is worth taking a chance on the possibility that dangerous people will come into our country. I am sure the migrants will add skills and abilities to the nation and perhaps set an example of how to improve our own imperfect domestic agenda.
1
The bill in question has nothing to do with fighting terror. It has everything to do with getting re-elected.
3
What will it cost to assimilate these refugees? After what they have been through they will need a lot of support. They can't be assumed to be sophisticated or well educated or English speaking, so translators, social workers, adult education will be needed.
The school systems will need to hire translators and provide remedial assistance. In a lot of places we already have South and Central American illegal immigrant children consuming these expensive resources.
How will this support for Syrian refugees be funded?
I think I'm at a breaking point with taxes as it is.
The school systems will need to hire translators and provide remedial assistance. In a lot of places we already have South and Central American illegal immigrant children consuming these expensive resources.
How will this support for Syrian refugees be funded?
I think I'm at a breaking point with taxes as it is.
3
Just a thought about numbers.
Under the Administration's plan, now being opposed by the House leadership and many governors, the US is supposed to accept a total of 10,000 refugees after a lengthy verification process.
Despite the rougher winter conditions, approximately 6,000 to 8,000 refugees from war torn Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan continue to arrive in Greece every day seeking refuge. Over 700,000 have arrived in Europe since January with the flow continuing.
So the refugees we are arguing about would amount to not much more than ONE DAY'S FLOW in the stream of refugees seeking asylum in the West.
Germany a country with one quarter the population of the US, is open to taking 50 times as many refugees or more (500,000 +).
Shame on US.
*Of course, everyone agrees there needs to be verification to filter out any terrorists, by the Administration plan has an 18-24 month verification process. Surely we can accept 10K in a country of over 300 million.
Under the Administration's plan, now being opposed by the House leadership and many governors, the US is supposed to accept a total of 10,000 refugees after a lengthy verification process.
Despite the rougher winter conditions, approximately 6,000 to 8,000 refugees from war torn Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan continue to arrive in Greece every day seeking refuge. Over 700,000 have arrived in Europe since January with the flow continuing.
So the refugees we are arguing about would amount to not much more than ONE DAY'S FLOW in the stream of refugees seeking asylum in the West.
Germany a country with one quarter the population of the US, is open to taking 50 times as many refugees or more (500,000 +).
Shame on US.
*Of course, everyone agrees there needs to be verification to filter out any terrorists, by the Administration plan has an 18-24 month verification process. Surely we can accept 10K in a country of over 300 million.
2
Wow, reading some of these comments and listening to GOP candidates does not paint a very charitable picture of the good old U.S.A. Actually just downright ugly. Some would ban Muslims altogether. Others (and this from politicians who should have a working knowledge of the Constitution) might accept Christians only. Sounds way too close to organizations that accept only white Christians for membership and reject all others. And it doesn't get any uglier than that. Can these people hear what's coming out of their mouths?
World crisis- we are still part of the world, have to do our part. Safely as possible. Fact is we broke the Middle East, we've been at war there 14 years, we have some responsibility for what has happened. Saying we don't want to help because we're scared just lets the rest of the world know we are unreliable. We have to be better than that.
World crisis- we are still part of the world, have to do our part. Safely as possible. Fact is we broke the Middle East, we've been at war there 14 years, we have some responsibility for what has happened. Saying we don't want to help because we're scared just lets the rest of the world know we are unreliable. We have to be better than that.
3
Hmmm...Chinese Exclusion Act of 1884, Madison Grant and his 1916 book, The Passing of the Great Race and subsequent U.S. Immigration Act of 1924 to keep the U.S. ethnically "pure", turning away the boat "St Louis" in 1939 and sending the Jews fleeing the Nazis back to die in the death camps...seems like Pres. Obama was wrong when he said restricting admission of refugees is not who we are as a people. Seems like it's exactly who we are.
1
Maybe the Syrian refugees coming to our shores are peace loving people, and maybe they r not. I don't know where EB gets its statistics, but according to reliable sources, 72 percent of the new comers r young males, of military age, whose profiles, in certain cases,match those of the gunmen and bombers who wreaked havoc in Paris less than a week ago.Why is it imperative to admit them at this time?Given the "affreux gachi" that persists on our southern border where vetting is haphazard and sometimes non existent, why would the average American think that the screening of Syrian migrants would be any better? A fundamental question to be formulated is why we should accept them at all, except on an individual basis, and after waiting their turn in line. Relocate them in the Trucial States as a temporary measure.We have problems of our own with 94 million unemployed, 47 million living on EBT and other subsidies, and an infrastructure"en desuetude.".A major reason for O's deep unpopularity among a segment of the populace is that he always seems to put the interests of non citizens over those of citizens.Hence, we have millions of undocumented residents, vast majority of whom are solid, others who r bad hombres, and who have harmed and even killed US citizens. O seems unconcerned. In the crepuscular months of his Presidency, our c-in-c should devote his efforts to serving the American people first and foremost. That would be a nice note to go out on, and would inform his legacy.
The 9/11 killers came over on tourist visas because 15 of 19 were Saudis, not considered a risk of overstaying and thus routinely granted visas.
3
I am more-than-a-little sick and tired of the meaningless and stupid mantra that the government's most important responsibility is to protect its people, because that responsibility is too often simplistically applied to war making or protection against violence from outside forces. Government needs to provide rules (aka laws) and enforcement that will provide a civilized society, and protect its citizens from disease, poverty, homelessness, starvation, and indignity, as well as death by homicidal people with easy access to guns. Foreign enemies are for the most part outgunned and too far away to really threaten us as much as our own violent people and some of our greedy corporations, which, by the way, people and corporations are obviously two different things. We should and we shall vet the Syrian refugees, and then we must apply compassion and kindness to sway them from radicalization any time in the future.
2
I was just wondering if anyone has heard of or even knows about the Syrians who were caught at our southern border trying to enter the country illegally...
Two federal agents operating under the umbrella of U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) are claiming that eight Syrian illegal aliens attempted to enter Texas from Mexico in the Laredo Sector. The federal agents spoke on the condition of anonymity, however, a local president of the National Border Patrol Council (NBPC) confirmed that Laredo Border Patrol agents have been officially contacting the organization with concerns over reports from other federal agents about Syrians illegally entering the country in the Laredo Sector.
Two federal agents operating under the umbrella of U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) are claiming that eight Syrian illegal aliens attempted to enter Texas from Mexico in the Laredo Sector. The federal agents spoke on the condition of anonymity, however, a local president of the National Border Patrol Council (NBPC) confirmed that Laredo Border Patrol agents have been officially contacting the organization with concerns over reports from other federal agents about Syrians illegally entering the country in the Laredo Sector.
3
Many Americans know little or nothing about what it means to be a refugee, and how they get to the U.S. In order to apply for refugee status (which is done from outside the U.S.) you must be able to prove that you are subject to persecution on the basis of your race, religion, nationality or political affiliation. In other words, you could be killed in your own country because of who you are or what you believe.
This claim is then verified through a series of in person interviews, and once the claim is verified, a lengthy security check, conducted by several federal agencies, begins, often taking up to two years. Only then will a small percentage of those refugees be offered admission to the U.S. They are not the danger. Someone coming to the U.S. on a tourist visa (think 9/11 bombers) poses a much bigger threat since their backgrounds cannot be so extensively checked. The human beings coming from Syria are humans, just like us. They deserve the right just to live. They come with their families, and they just want to live. They are are not terrorists. We have to be better than this.
This claim is then verified through a series of in person interviews, and once the claim is verified, a lengthy security check, conducted by several federal agencies, begins, often taking up to two years. Only then will a small percentage of those refugees be offered admission to the U.S. They are not the danger. Someone coming to the U.S. on a tourist visa (think 9/11 bombers) poses a much bigger threat since their backgrounds cannot be so extensively checked. The human beings coming from Syria are humans, just like us. They deserve the right just to live. They come with their families, and they just want to live. They are are not terrorists. We have to be better than this.
110
Syrian refugees are not the only danger but they are one danger especially when ISIS asserts that it will use them as a cover to export genuine terrorists. Why don't we take ISIS at its word?
2
Are you aware of how easy false documents are obtained which shows the the person as some nice safe person? I guess not ore you would not have written this message.
And many of us don't care either. We have a country that is already over populated, we don't have resources to care for our citizens. Yet we want to take in people who can be assisted better close to their homes in countries with cultures more suitable for them. Just foolish progressive ideas.
1
This ought not to be treated as a partisan political issue. I suspect there are Democrats as well as Republicans who give more emphasis to security from infiltration of terrorists within a body of otherwise innocent refugees than do other Americans. It’s really a matter of threat estimation, which tends to plan against worst-case scenarios, and gives high priority to protecting against worst-case consequences. Given that, BOTH sides have a lot to add to the conversation, and both sides should make the best arguments they can. The editors make their own compelling argument for why H.R. 4038 requires a level of scrutiny that is redundant given the safeguards already built in to our refugee vetting protocols, adding nothing to the process but inconvenience to people whose lives already have been shattered.
In the end, Congress will have a voice, by either enacting H.R. 4038, a Senate analog and conferencing a bill … or not. If it survives, the president will need to sign it to make it law, and it’s very unlikely that his veto could be overridden, particularly given the composition of the Senate.
But all we read in this editorial is one side of the argument, seriously worsened by the implication that those who support it are somehow un-American. Our president recently made a similar comment, and in that obviously he was speaking for those who happen to agree with him and the editors, but NOT for all Americans.
Let the process function as intended and let all voices be heard.
In the end, Congress will have a voice, by either enacting H.R. 4038, a Senate analog and conferencing a bill … or not. If it survives, the president will need to sign it to make it law, and it’s very unlikely that his veto could be overridden, particularly given the composition of the Senate.
But all we read in this editorial is one side of the argument, seriously worsened by the implication that those who support it are somehow un-American. Our president recently made a similar comment, and in that obviously he was speaking for those who happen to agree with him and the editors, but NOT for all Americans.
Let the process function as intended and let all voices be heard.
2
This is how potential terrorists (ISIS) will try to get into our country
Honduras just detained 5 Syrians with stolen Greek passports who made their way from Brazil up to Honduras with their ultimate destination the US to go "traveling" Fortunately the Hondurans caught them while the other countries such as Brazil didn't.
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/11/18/world/americas/ap-lt-honduras...
Honduras just detained 5 Syrians with stolen Greek passports who made their way from Brazil up to Honduras with their ultimate destination the US to go "traveling" Fortunately the Hondurans caught them while the other countries such as Brazil didn't.
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/11/18/world/americas/ap-lt-honduras...
1
The very founding of this nation by the brave men and women who stood their ground against the supreme world power at the time, who were willing to die for the civil liberties we all enjoy, was an act that has empowered all of humanity. Freedom. That sort of freedom means risk, not security. Today we have a group of people, cowards really, who would gladly sacrifice these very liberties for supposed (and false) security. They would throw away not only their own liberties, their own freedom, but everyone else's as well, so that they can feel "safe." They want instead to foster fear, distrust, to engender hatred and mostly to run and hide from the dangers that the freedom and liberty we have must included. Not foolish and reckless danger, but the danger from fulfilling our nation's credo: That all have the God given right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. All. Not just us. I have no doubts at all that our courageous ancestors who willingly died to create a country founded to embody these freedoms and liberties for all humanity, would be ASHAMED at these cowards who want to run and hide and are only concerned with protecting themselves.
83
No doubt you are speaking about the able bodied army dogers heading to Europe from the Middle East.
1
What they want is to do away with Barack Obama. They've been trying unsuccessfully since his first inaugural, and they see this as their last chance. This is what makes me cry.
1
well said
There is nothing remotely unreasonable about this bill, given all that has happened. There is nothing xenophobic about it, and please stop labeling everyone who disagrees with you with an epithet, it reflects very poorly on you.
You say that most “law enforcement and intelligence authorities” describe the proposal as “wrongheaded” – whom exactly are you talking about? The Director of the FBI described the “vetting process” as virtually useless in exposing “foreign enemies” - which you place in quotation marks as if it’s some wild fantasy.
You praise the federal vetting protocols and state that the immigrants’ records are checked by “national security, intelligence, law enforcement and consular officials,” including “past travel and immigration records.” Really? Because all reports are that most of the people who left Syria - 70% male, military age - have no documents at all. So what exactly is being “vetted?”
Set aside the culture wars for a moment. Given all that has happened, the only reasonable response is caution, and a complete review of how and why we admit people into the U.S. None of this is unreasonable.
One thing is clear - the reactionary, intemperate response from the Times editorial board and others on the far left has been perceived as wildly unreasonable by most people outside of your echo chamber.
Most people, first and foremost, want their government to defend THEM, the actual citizens, not migrants/refugees/terrorists (choose your category).
You say that most “law enforcement and intelligence authorities” describe the proposal as “wrongheaded” – whom exactly are you talking about? The Director of the FBI described the “vetting process” as virtually useless in exposing “foreign enemies” - which you place in quotation marks as if it’s some wild fantasy.
You praise the federal vetting protocols and state that the immigrants’ records are checked by “national security, intelligence, law enforcement and consular officials,” including “past travel and immigration records.” Really? Because all reports are that most of the people who left Syria - 70% male, military age - have no documents at all. So what exactly is being “vetted?”
Set aside the culture wars for a moment. Given all that has happened, the only reasonable response is caution, and a complete review of how and why we admit people into the U.S. None of this is unreasonable.
One thing is clear - the reactionary, intemperate response from the Times editorial board and others on the far left has been perceived as wildly unreasonable by most people outside of your echo chamber.
Most people, first and foremost, want their government to defend THEM, the actual citizens, not migrants/refugees/terrorists (choose your category).
3
The bill reflects exactly what Americans are: fearful of more terrorist attacks in the USA. Half the refugees are children? Look what has been happening in Europe when those children have grown up. The children of many Europeans are dead today as a result. It is time to pause, think, and decide what is in the best interests of our citizens. No one wishes ill to migrants, and no one imagines that evil lies in the hearts of all who seek entry, but a government that does not recognize the rational worries of its citizenry is unresponsive and therefore negligent. Maybe in a few years, things will look different, but right now the government is obligated to respect the concerns of the population and address them in a manner that maximizes their protection and well-being, both physical and psychological.
69
Those children in Europe who grew up and caused trouble felt marginalized somehow. Why is a question that has not been answered.
Why did someone enter an elementary school in Connecticut and start to kill children and adults? Why did someone blow up a large government office building in OK? Why did someone enter a shopping mall in OR and start to kill everyone in sight? Why have too many entered MacDonald's restaurants and shot everyone in sight? When these were all US born citizens and white Christians they were all regarded as crazy.
Why can't we see the same elements in anyone of Muslim background as the cause for such things?
Why did someone enter an elementary school in Connecticut and start to kill children and adults? Why did someone blow up a large government office building in OK? Why did someone enter a shopping mall in OR and start to kill everyone in sight? Why have too many entered MacDonald's restaurants and shot everyone in sight? When these were all US born citizens and white Christians they were all regarded as crazy.
Why can't we see the same elements in anyone of Muslim background as the cause for such things?
1
I am fearful, but not of terrorist attacks. I am fearful of "fortress America" policies and a destruction of civil rights and civil liberties that ISIS hopes our Republican friends will enact. I am fearful of the mortal economic and social desolation that will follow if they manage to scuttle efforts to address climate change. I am fearful of the autocratic and monopolized "democracy" that the US will become if one of the Republican candidates wins the Presidency, sweeping in a filibuster proof majority in the Senate.
1
But that is why this "bill" is just a political ploy during an election cycle. The Republicans sully our reputation and disregard our image of ourselves in the world to gain political points. The current process, as written in this article, takes up to 2 years as all the information we can get is examined. We already "vet" those who wish to migrate here. I saw a political ad on TV last night where Jeb Bush said we should only allow Christians to migrate here. While he does mention Israel he doesn't use the word Jewish. Is that what the Republicans really want? A Christian nation where other religions are not tolerated? I would rather not live in a country like that. And since I'm Jewish, apparently the Republicans don't want me to either.
1
This Republican bill isn't enough. It should be a ban.
Our President tells us that the 10,000 Syrian migrants he plans to take in against public outcry will be rigorously vetted. This does not sound truthful because it is impossible. Consider this:
The migrants are coming from war-torn Syria and Iraq. The home governments in Syria and Iraq will not and could not verify migrant identity. Syria is not going to answer inquiries because the US is insisting on the overthrow of Mr. Assad. Iraq has also been uncooperative with the US since its change of government. Even if Iraq and Syria were willing to cooperate, they could not because their territories are battles zones without functioning government or under control of ISL.
The migrants have been concealing their identities. Many have presented at borders with their fingerprints burned off. The migrant trail is littered with defaced passports.
Many of those who have not discarded their passports are carrying false or altered passports.
We have no agreement with the EU to take only what we consider the best migrants or only mothers and orphans. More than three quarters are fighting-age men, i.e., participants in a vicious sectarian war.
Are we going to vet these migrants by questioning? "Are you or have you ever been at any time a member of a terrorist network?"
Do we even have enough Arabic- and Farsi-speaking immigration personal to process the applications?
I am so tired of the lies.
Our President tells us that the 10,000 Syrian migrants he plans to take in against public outcry will be rigorously vetted. This does not sound truthful because it is impossible. Consider this:
The migrants are coming from war-torn Syria and Iraq. The home governments in Syria and Iraq will not and could not verify migrant identity. Syria is not going to answer inquiries because the US is insisting on the overthrow of Mr. Assad. Iraq has also been uncooperative with the US since its change of government. Even if Iraq and Syria were willing to cooperate, they could not because their territories are battles zones without functioning government or under control of ISL.
The migrants have been concealing their identities. Many have presented at borders with their fingerprints burned off. The migrant trail is littered with defaced passports.
Many of those who have not discarded their passports are carrying false or altered passports.
We have no agreement with the EU to take only what we consider the best migrants or only mothers and orphans. More than three quarters are fighting-age men, i.e., participants in a vicious sectarian war.
Are we going to vet these migrants by questioning? "Are you or have you ever been at any time a member of a terrorist network?"
Do we even have enough Arabic- and Farsi-speaking immigration personal to process the applications?
I am so tired of the lies.
2
It was pointed out that out of 4 million Syrian refugees only 4 were willing to stay and fight for their country. Other countries have been bombed and their men stayed and fought for their country. Why did many of the Syrian men leave the women behind if it's too dangerous ... why leave your wife and children behind ? Our families shouldn't be expected to send our loved ones to fight in Syria while all the Syrian males won't and expect free money, healthcare and everything our own veterans don't receive when they return from putting their live's on the line ! I don't buy our government's line about their rigorous vetting...there is no way they can get complete records from Syria regarding the thousands of refugees. The other mid-east countries need to step up financially and humanitarily.
1
Women, children, old people can be refugees. Young healthy men leaving their homes, refusing to defend them, coming to live on somebody's land and dime?? I don't think it's right. I don't think it's fair to people in Europe and America. Who is going to fight their war?? European boys?? American boys?? I do not remember anything like that in the history of mankind. Just remember two world wars. Men left their homes for a fight, not to hide behind somebody's backs on somebody's dime. And one does not have to be a military expert to understand that this war cannot be fought from air. Our leaders and professionals know it very well. There are many voices for poor people caught in fire. Those who manage to flee don't look like poor people. Really poor people are living in camps near the borders or stay in their destroyed homes in Syria and elsewhere. Sorry, but it seems true to me.
60
They want the civilized world to fight their wars for them, while they remind us how much they hate us.
Syria has required military service of a year and half. They also have conscription for which young people (both men and women) who have already served their required time may be held in reserve and called up. Those young men (and women) who are fleeing may very well have served their term in the military, which is more than we can say about young people in this country. Would you feel the same way about young men and women from the U.S. fleeing wars here if they were not enlisted? As for your comment about refugees not "looking like poor people," many of them are not–no more than many Jews fleeing their home countries during WWII were. But, when your home, your neighborhood, your city, your country has been bombed to oblivion, you become poor. Bad things don't just happen to poor people. Not only poor people flee terrible situations. This logic is flawed.
Did you see the part about TWO PERCENT of the applicants being young men? Can you engage in a thought experiment and come up with scenarios in which it might make sense for them to seek refugee status? Ie, only surviving adult in their family?
2
Did you asked yourselfs why none of the rich Arab countries don't help to resettle those refugees? They know only to take and complain never to give. The refugees are not the enemy but the enemy use them to penetrate into Europe and the USA. Send them back to the Arab countries where there is no war
3
Like ISIS members are going to through 18-24 months of screening to get into the country. Most likely their followers are here now. Worry about that please. Honestly, our leaders have lost their minds. And Chris Christie is the worst of them all by refusing to take children. I guess the chant I heard over and over again as I was growing up - "never again" - means nothing now. This refugee discussion is a shame on our country.
3
Were it not for the US war in Iraq there wouldn't perhaps be the ISIS nor the US bound refugees. Isn't it the US action inviting equal reaction?
2
you mean as far back as the first Gulf War in 1990-1191. Bin Laden said himself, that was the main reason why he did what he did(no excuses for what he did). Infidels in a Muslim country.
First it was Ebola. Then it was kids crossing the Mexican border. Now it's Syrian refugees. It seems as though every year the GOP comes up with a new bete noire in hopes of scaring Americans into voting them into office. Are we really so susceptible to paranoia? If so one wonders how previous generations stood up Hitler's legions or those of King George. Nowadays we're easily convinced that our own shadows are likely to attack us unless Donald Trump gets to wave his magic wand of defiance.
16
The last thing that this country needs is more conservative religious people.
We have enough of those already.
We have enough of those already.
All but one (at most) of the terrorists involved in the attack are citizens of France or Belgium. We should require the President himself to certify that anyone coming into this country from the EU is not a terrorist after each EU tourist has gone through a 3 year vetting process.
14
That the jihadists who carried out the massacres in Paris were French an Belgian nationals is NOT an argument in favor of mass Muslim migration into the United States.
1
citizens who either came form the Middle East or are children of immigrants.
1
I called my Congressman and gave his rep an earful on this today - I asked the young man who took my call if the Congressman was going to also support denying entry to anyone carrying a French or Belgian passport, since the perpetrators of these criminal acts in Paris were French and Belgian citizens. This question was met with dead silence. Syrian refugees are vetted over nearly 2 years before being allowed entry into the United States. Somehow our some of our brilliant politicians seem to be unaware of this fact. The Republicans in Congress have no shame. President Hollande, even in the midst of their crises, has stated they will still take 30,000 Syrian refugees this year. Just when you think the current crop of Presidential Pretenders and hyper partisan politicians can sink no lower, they manage to do so. Yes indeed, another example of American Exceptionalism.
142
Uh, there are plenty of EU nationals on the no-fly list. The US excludes persons with even the vaguest ties to jihadist organizations. Very doubtful that any of the Paris savages could have entered the US legally. Of course we welcome illegal aliens now so the terrorists can cross our borders with the flow from Latin America.
1
Thank you for making that call to your congressman. We could extend the concept even further and suggest that other countries worldwide deny entry to US citizens on the entirely analagous grounds that many of the terrorists who have attacked THIS country, including Tim McVeigh as well as most of the school shooters and other gun-crazy lunatics, have been natural-born citizens of the good old USA.
1
Think of the Tsarnaev brothers who carried out the terrorist bombing of the Boston Marathon. Russian intelligence warned the U.S. twice about the radical jihadist elder brother. You trust the U.S. government to keep us safe from jihadists among the refugees?
1
Our economy is in tatters. Except for people who literally live in Manhattan, Beverly Hills and Silicon Valley, most of us are barely eking by.
It's inhumane to "welcome" ever more immigrants to the slums where they will be forced to live and subsist off of government handouts, far from their homeland, their culture and their relatives, because there will not be jobs waiting for them.
It may make the residents of Manhattan, Beverly Hills and Silicon Valley feel brave and generous for a few weeks to call for more immigrants, but the truth is that there are no jobs.
Resettle the refugees close to home so they can be a part of the rebuilding of their people and their culture instead of being brought off, dropped off and abandoned by rich people who need to feel good about themselves.
It's inhumane to "welcome" ever more immigrants to the slums where they will be forced to live and subsist off of government handouts, far from their homeland, their culture and their relatives, because there will not be jobs waiting for them.
It may make the residents of Manhattan, Beverly Hills and Silicon Valley feel brave and generous for a few weeks to call for more immigrants, but the truth is that there are no jobs.
Resettle the refugees close to home so they can be a part of the rebuilding of their people and their culture instead of being brought off, dropped off and abandoned by rich people who need to feel good about themselves.
42
i agree. we can't/won't take care of our own homeless, but it's PC to take in foreign homeless people and give them food, clothing , shelter and jobs that could have gone to our own.. doesn't make sense whatsoever.
1
This legislation is politics at its worst - vulgar and partisan. It's an oxymoron that nativist passions are being stirred in a country of immigrants. Someone needs to explain to millions of people around the world why a country that is so rich and powerful fears those who are so poor and in need. If we truly feared violence THAT much we would strengthen our efforts at home by working to reduce the domestic, racial, and criminal violence that kills our own citizens on a daily basis. Somehow, that's ok? I am truly ashamed of these politicians that use their own ethnic, racial, and religious identities when convenient for "vote-getting" and then turn their backs on those who are less fortunate when there is no personal gain.
15
For some reason, we tend to think of terrorists as superhuman. In order to pass the already stringent screening process and outfox our intelligence professionals, potential jihadists would have to be extraordinarily sophisticated well-trained, and patient enough to wait 18-24 months. After all that, if there was even a hint of suspicion, the refugee would not be admitted. Wouldn't ISIS be much more likely to try to turn someone already living here, or sneak a jihadist in over the border?
11
Or - if someone can pass that level of screening - why not just buy a plane ticket and come on a tourist visa?
A recent article in Mother Jones makes an important point: Democrats need to stop mocking other Americans for being concerned about homeland security. It is a losing posture. Democrats, including Obama, need to at least fake caring about national security, or they will lose the White House. Once they win, they can stop faking, and neglect America's security needs all they want.
9
I was in Vienna last month, watching "refugees" pass through the Vienna Haupbahnhof. I did not see a lot of "women, children, and old people." I saw 85%+ of men in their 20s or 30s, and wondered: why does Europe need them? If they are "political refugees" they should be home effecting change in their country, not looking for a sinecure in Europe (all the while detesting Western civilization). THe House is right; the only "pandering" is by those who kowtow to the "borderless" immigration lobby.
34
France, less than a week after they suffered this attack, says they will accept 30,000 Syrian refugees over the next two years. What a contrast to U.S. House Republicans, who would rather pander to their xenophobic base than take a stand for foundational tenets of our national character.
15
France is committing cultural suicide. France, due to the large influx of Muslim immigrants, has become increasingly dangerous for French Jews. Muslim violence against Jews in France has become routine. whereas 20 years ago, it was not. You don't lock the doors of your house because you hate the people outside; you lock them because you love the people inside.
1
"You don't lock the doors of your house because you hate the people outside; you lock them because you love the people inside."
That is not necessarily the case.
Your statement about anti-Semitism in France also overlooks that many of the anti-Semitic attacks represent a surge in native right-wing sentiment that would be more than capable of sustaining a surge in anti-Semitism without Muslims (see Hungary for an example) The idea that letting Muslims in is "cultural suicide" is pure xenophobia. As the Atlantic article pointed out "The new anti-Semitism flourishing in corners of the European Muslim community would be impoverished without the incorporation of European fascist tropes."
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/04/is-it-time-for-the-j...
That is not necessarily the case.
Your statement about anti-Semitism in France also overlooks that many of the anti-Semitic attacks represent a surge in native right-wing sentiment that would be more than capable of sustaining a surge in anti-Semitism without Muslims (see Hungary for an example) The idea that letting Muslims in is "cultural suicide" is pure xenophobia. As the Atlantic article pointed out "The new anti-Semitism flourishing in corners of the European Muslim community would be impoverished without the incorporation of European fascist tropes."
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/04/is-it-time-for-the-j...
1
That's the attitude that caused the U.S. to turn away 900 European Jews on the SS St Louis in 1939, several hundred of whom subsequently died in the Holocaust.
Unlike European countries where tens of thousands of refugees are showing up at their borders, the U.S. is able to thoroughly investigate potential refugees over a period of 18 to 24 months before they are accepted. This vetting process should be examined for any needed improvements, but "locking the door" is not the answer.
Unlike European countries where tens of thousands of refugees are showing up at their borders, the U.S. is able to thoroughly investigate potential refugees over a period of 18 to 24 months before they are accepted. This vetting process should be examined for any needed improvements, but "locking the door" is not the answer.
Republicans and right-wingers are fond of referring to the U.S. as a Christian country. When it come to the issue of admitting refugees, they should ask themselves this question: What would Jesus do?
15
There is no such thing as a "Syrian" refugee. The carnage in that country demonstrates the depth and complexity of its ethnic and religious makeup. Obama denounced the religious test for refugees but Daesh is not so politically correct: it has singled out the religious minirities, primarily the Yazidis, Christians and Allawites, for genocide. Shouldn't it be common sense that the potential victims are given priority over able-bodied Sunni men and women? Using obfuscating and emotionally charged language, such as "refugees", for a mixture of economic migrants, opportunistic escapees, and genuine victims of violence will not make Obama's case more acceptable even to liberals like myself.
6
As an American visitor to Paris during the terror attacks I am moved by the resilience and resolve of Parisians. They seem willing, in a way so many Americans are not, to steadfastly maintain the guiding principles of Liberté, Égalité et Fraternité in the face of terrorists whose every purpose is to instill fear and hatred and distrust. There are no guarantees of safety in the world. And doing the right thing, which is reaching out a hand to refugees fleeing the ravages of civil war and constant threat, will indeed come with some risk. Risk that someone with ill intent will come in the door with the refugees. But we cannot ever really secure our borders against all threat without closing our borders entirely, along with our humanity and compassion. I would rather live with the risk than exist in a place where there are only people who we deem "safe", in other words, people just like "us". And frankly, the idea of every person around me being by definition a "Christian" isn't particularly comforting, based upon the attitudes of a sad number of "Christians".
295
Don't forget laïcité--secularism. Although the French Republic enacted its secularism law in 1905, we've been a secular republic for far longer--since First Amendment.
Unscrupulous politicians there (Front National) and here (the GOP/Tea Party) want to change that. Since the 1988 GOP Convention, where Pat Buchanan's keynote address called this a "christian nation," the Constitution has become Kleenex to be used when convenient.
It's hardly "christian" to let in "christians only." It's copying our World War II enemies who desired "racial purity." It's copying its dress rehearsal, the Spanish Inquisition.
I always thought we were better than that.
Unscrupulous politicians there (Front National) and here (the GOP/Tea Party) want to change that. Since the 1988 GOP Convention, where Pat Buchanan's keynote address called this a "christian nation," the Constitution has become Kleenex to be used when convenient.
It's hardly "christian" to let in "christians only." It's copying our World War II enemies who desired "racial purity." It's copying its dress rehearsal, the Spanish Inquisition.
I always thought we were better than that.
2
They are pretty much living under martial law right now.
it is not about living only with folks just like "us". It's about during times of war, being cautious about granting the right to come here, to live here. Every country has always had screening processes and the obligation to limit and control immigration.
The simple fact is there are political points to be scored here for Republicans. They may be a lot of things, but they are not stupid. They know the process is already very thorough, and our intelligence apparatus knows a potential jihadist is much more likely to be already in the country, or will seek an illegal pathway. They certainly would not wait 18-24 months to go through a grueling vetting process (where, in order to "dupe" the FBI, they would have to be extraordinarily trained) just for a 50/50 chance of being admitted.
Republicans know this too, but beating your chest and sounding tough makes for good politics in America
Republicans know this too, but beating your chest and sounding tough makes for good politics in America
6
Have you so soon forgotten that the Boston marathon bombers were Chechen asylum seekers? One of the Paris bombers came through Greece as a refugee in October, yet still you are in denial. I would love to hear that debate between Obama and Cruz. I have always admired Obama, but the Left's wishful naivete about immigration goes a long way towards explaining why rightist governments keep getting elected.
26
I am sure that Cruz would enjoy debating the President of the United States of America, because he is a junior Senator, Presidential wannabe who will probably never reach the status of President. He should come back if and when he has the bonafide standing to debate the Democratic candidate for the presidency.
1
Why should the President of the United States take his precious time to debate with Ted Cruz? I'm offended for the office of President that Cruz would even suggest it.
The same Cruz who stood on an Iowa stage this weekend with a preacher who wishes to execute gays? Can we trust any politician who would stoop so low as to plumb a cesspool of hate just to garner a few more primary votes?
1
Over 2.000 people on the federal government's Terrorism Watch List were able to purchase guns in the US because Republicans refuse to close a gun loophole that the NRA opposes. That's a a very real threat we presently live with. We need a House vote on that ASAP.
177
And yet minus all loop holes they were still able to get guns in Paris.
2
If this hysteria and fear-mongering about scapegoating refugees is allowed to go through in Congress, it will be an awful blotch on Paul Ryan's record...and all the republican governors shutting their doors to these desperate human beings, escaping war, and worse. These refugees are going through rigorous vetting procedures, and would most unlikely present a danger; instead, productive workers promoting what the U.S. holds dear, diversity and inclusion, and a stronger democracy. No empathy left?
10
It's not that Americans don't have empathy, it's because the people are not fools. FYI: the United States government has admitted that no vetting procedure is in place that absolutely guarantees that Syrian refugees are "safe". (Google it.)
According to Uncle Sam, the "rigorous vetting" that you believe in is, unfortunately, sub par at this point in time. And that's why so many governors don't want to cooperate with Obama.
And while I honor your free speech, I believe that your argument has no merit since you've ignored this proven fact.
According to Uncle Sam, the "rigorous vetting" that you believe in is, unfortunately, sub par at this point in time. And that's why so many governors don't want to cooperate with Obama.
And while I honor your free speech, I believe that your argument has no merit since you've ignored this proven fact.
6
Why doesn't our Congress introduce a bill stopping us from buying Saudi Arabian oil?
20
A good idea, if you could get them to actually agree on anything...
Republican law makers always seem to be keen on mean-spirited, cruel rhetoric to accompany the exclusive nature of their law making. They are more than anyone enthusiastic to take away peoples' rights, especially when it comes to the lesser among us.
Hysterical calls to cut assistance to the poor, Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security have been the 'bread and butter' of that party, and so depriving families of refugees from safe heaven, away from their war tron country is just a logical extension of their dogma.
Yet they seemed to be very thin on logic or common sense. The terrorists who attacked Paris were Europeans born and raised. One is suspected to have used a refugee statues to join the other in their murderess act.
Does the fact that one refugee might have been involved in the attack incriminates all refugees?
Using this logic one might assume that if police officers killed unarmed African-Americans then all officers are automatically suspected of those crimes.
A CIA chief who lie often to the public clearly discredit all CIA officers, and if a former Republican Speaker of the House cheats on his wives, that means that all Republican law-makers are adulterers.
When "one of us" commit a crime, we resort to the convenient "bad apple" explanation, yet when it is "one of them" it reflects on their entire group - Muslims, refugees - character.
Hysterical calls to cut assistance to the poor, Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security have been the 'bread and butter' of that party, and so depriving families of refugees from safe heaven, away from their war tron country is just a logical extension of their dogma.
Yet they seemed to be very thin on logic or common sense. The terrorists who attacked Paris were Europeans born and raised. One is suspected to have used a refugee statues to join the other in their murderess act.
Does the fact that one refugee might have been involved in the attack incriminates all refugees?
Using this logic one might assume that if police officers killed unarmed African-Americans then all officers are automatically suspected of those crimes.
A CIA chief who lie often to the public clearly discredit all CIA officers, and if a former Republican Speaker of the House cheats on his wives, that means that all Republican law-makers are adulterers.
When "one of us" commit a crime, we resort to the convenient "bad apple" explanation, yet when it is "one of them" it reflects on their entire group - Muslims, refugees - character.
9
This country's open invitation, come-as- you -are, Trick or Treat immigration policy has already led us to the "Trick" part- remember the first terrorist bombs planted in the WTC back in 1993? Ramzi Yousef used a false Iraqi passport to try to enter the U.S. then claimed "political asylum" and was granted entrance to the U.S. only later to be the prime participant in the bombing, there are many others from the Middle Est who were granted entrance. Yes, it was a "Trick " back some 20 odd years ago and still is today. The Democrats pandering for votes from the open-door policy Latino immigrant groups and others is what is putting our country in continual danger.. Keep it up Obama and other Democrats, you're just asking for us to be attacked. Your "Welcome" mat is one that should be removed immediately, might as well leave the door open with a sign saying- "Rob My House, Please".
13
Apple founder Steve Job’s biological father was a Syrian, so was tennis player Andre Agassi’s father (though emigrated from Iran). Could you imagine the U.S. without Steve Jobs and Andre Agassi?
7
Yes i could, in Jobs case, it would have made our world more livable and personable. The digitalization of our world has made this more of a mess than it used to be. Some of Apple's innovations have been used by ISIS and other terrorists groups.
3
Easily. I'm a pc guy and Sampras was the superior player.
1
The point is: We should not just perceive refugees as welfare burdens or threat. With the proper handling, refugees and their offspring could immensely contribute to the US society someday. Steve Jobs and Andre Agassi are two good examples.
Great synthesis of the reality of the real issues.
1
President Obama addresses the better angels of our nature, while the Republican Presidential candidates play on cynicism. Jeb! wants to let in the Christian refugees. Ted Cruz would turn them all away. Donald Trump believes the desperate Syrian refugees are a "Trojan horse plot." Ben Carson, supposedly the nicest of that group, said that while he felt for the refugees, 'you put an oxygen mask on yourself before your neighbor in a plane emergency.'
President Obama, as a good leader, sees innocents suffering and indiscriminate killing in war-torn Syria, for the humanitarian crisis it is. He knows how dangerous it would be to use religious litmus tests for citizenship and actually understands, beyond lip service, America as the shining city upon a hill.
President Obama, as a good leader, sees innocents suffering and indiscriminate killing in war-torn Syria, for the humanitarian crisis it is. He knows how dangerous it would be to use religious litmus tests for citizenship and actually understands, beyond lip service, America as the shining city upon a hill.
244
What's the logic that states a refugee wouldn't feign Christianity to get in to the US ?
Only the Christian refugees ? Ugh.
Only the Christian refugees ? Ugh.
1
Right you are, Fran. Jeb! hasn't thought through that possibility. Very superficial, simplistic thinking in the Christians-only argument. Thanks for writing and enjoy your evening.
Ask the Danes how it is working out.
1
The best way to end this refugee crisis is to end the war in Syria, of course.
But in the meantime, the US can make a huge difference in the lives of some of the victims of this brutal war. Surely among the many, many refugees we can find 10,000 who are clearly not a threat, and will be forever grateful.
But in the meantime, the US can make a huge difference in the lives of some of the victims of this brutal war. Surely among the many, many refugees we can find 10,000 who are clearly not a threat, and will be forever grateful.
128
Yes we can. They are usually identified as Christians - not by the PC crowd, of course.
2
I could reply with the usual long list of "Christian" terrorists, including some from the US, but instead, a statement of fact: surely in this case we can identify many non-Christians who are clearly not a threat too.
All it takes is one of those 10000 to cause havoc and kill hundreds.
It was around 1938 or 1939 a poll was taken whether to admit up to 10,000 refugee Children into USA, which was opposed by approximately sixty-one percent (61%). Those children along with people all ages on the ship MS St Louis were Jewish; I forget their ultimate fate?
What has slowly happened since President Obama's election is acceptance of the intolerable for fear of being ostracized speaking against; Birtherism, Ebola patients, admittance of unaccompanied Hispanic children (under laws signed by republican presidents) and now this ugliness denying primarily widows and orphans or Non-Christians.
And as in the cases of 1920s Italy, Germany media and intellectuals find rationale to that point of view, this lulls public in having its feelings validated to subsequent laws enacted. So Pastor Martin Niemoller's poem shows us ithe abyss were it leads us as well.
Those proverbial slopes are not so much slippery as society's slide is due to gravitational pull of ignominy which puts in motion repeat of history's horrors.
What has slowly happened since President Obama's election is acceptance of the intolerable for fear of being ostracized speaking against; Birtherism, Ebola patients, admittance of unaccompanied Hispanic children (under laws signed by republican presidents) and now this ugliness denying primarily widows and orphans or Non-Christians.
And as in the cases of 1920s Italy, Germany media and intellectuals find rationale to that point of view, this lulls public in having its feelings validated to subsequent laws enacted. So Pastor Martin Niemoller's poem shows us ithe abyss were it leads us as well.
Those proverbial slopes are not so much slippery as society's slide is due to gravitational pull of ignominy which puts in motion repeat of history's horrors.
3
I don't think most people believe all Muslims are the enemy. I do think there is an honest concern about those trying to escape the Syrian mess based on the fact that ISIS had it's birth and holds ground in Syria, the very region so many are attempting to leave. To call people racists or bigots because they want to ensure those migrating are not going to shoot them in a cafe or blow them up in a public setting is unfair and a form of bullying a contrarian opinion and honest concern. Islam is not a race. It is an ideology. An ideology that drives a group now estimated at over 40,000 followers to enact horrific atrocities towards innocent victims in the name of the Quran..
24
When you write "Islam is not a race. It is an ideology. An ideology that drives a group now estimated at over 40,000 followers to enact horrific atrocities towards innocent victims in the name of the Quran.." as opposed to saying that a militant fringe element of Islam does this, then you clearly are one of those people who does believe that all Muslims are the enemy.
2
But what does the record of all Muslim-majority countries show us? Most have laws against apostasy and the penalty for the 'crime" of leaving Islam is death. Turkey will put you in jail for the "crime" of "insulting the prophet." Turkey's leader Erdogan has said that there is no moderate Islam, that Islam is Islam.
2
The record doesn't show us that the Islam per se drives people to act like ISIS and to call that prejudice isn't, as the forgoing opinion asserted, even close to bullying. In fact, most Muslims have disdain for ISIS (except, apparently, Pakistan).
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/17/in-nations-with-signific...
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/17/in-nations-with-signific...
1
Is this bill not in fact simply another means by which the Republicans seek to stem non-white immigration, with the Syrian/Iraqi/Afghan asylum seekers being used as a convenient means of stirring up fear? It has yet to be conclusively shown that the lone Syian in the group that attacked Paris was actually Syrian, and not travelling on a stolen travel document - but the Republicans inhabit a fact-free universe - look how soon they forgot that it was the US "war on terror" that destroyed these people's homelands and created the refugees in the first place.
5
Some further moves consistent with HR 4038:
- Round up all French and Belgian people in the US and deport them. There may or may not have been a Syrian refugee involved in the Paris attack, but there were definitely French and Belgian citizens.
- Shut down (or pause?) all international flights into the US until we can certify that each passenger does not present a threat to the USA
- In addition to the wall that Mr Trump wants to build on the Mexican border, he can build one across the entire Canadian border, since it is pretty easy for any terrorist to walk across our frontier border
When will the Republican Party stop using xenophobia as a way to build its base?
- Round up all French and Belgian people in the US and deport them. There may or may not have been a Syrian refugee involved in the Paris attack, but there were definitely French and Belgian citizens.
- Shut down (or pause?) all international flights into the US until we can certify that each passenger does not present a threat to the USA
- In addition to the wall that Mr Trump wants to build on the Mexican border, he can build one across the entire Canadian border, since it is pretty easy for any terrorist to walk across our frontier border
When will the Republican Party stop using xenophobia as a way to build its base?
9
And Ebola travel bans while we're at it. You never know ...
1
The current screening process which the Republicans in Congress should know is the most stringent and drawn out taking an average of two years. The US is only taking in 10,000 Syrians over the next two years, which is a very small number given the millions of Syrians who have fled their country. At its core, this bill reveals the ugliness and kneejerk opportunistic of the Congressional Republicans. It shows the hollowness of their moral, values, and intellectual honesty.
7
What a disgusting and shameful spectacle the Republicans are putting on. In an unparalleled display of political cowardice they are encouraging and reinforcing the worst instincts of their base with their calls to punish the victims of ISIS who are seeking refuge hereby refusing to allow them entry into our nation.
Thank god we have a real leader in The White House who is providing sound leadership instead of one of these Republican cowards who would be fomenting fear and panic.
Thank god we have a real leader in The White House who is providing sound leadership instead of one of these Republican cowards who would be fomenting fear and panic.
13
NYT Editorial Board opposes additional screening of 10,000 refugees, yet in 2012 maintains that scanning 100% of all incoming cargo containers is imperative.
"We recognized that the scanning of 100 percent of all cargo containers in five years could be a challenging deadline to meet. That is why we included the authority to extend the deadline in cases in which Homeland Security..."
Give me a break. Additional screening will certainly delay the refugee resettlement process, however it will also further ensure the safety of our citizens.
"We recognized that the scanning of 100 percent of all cargo containers in five years could be a challenging deadline to meet. That is why we included the authority to extend the deadline in cases in which Homeland Security..."
Give me a break. Additional screening will certainly delay the refugee resettlement process, however it will also further ensure the safety of our citizens.
39
Machine parts don't become depressed, give up faith, or die while waiting to be scanned. Human beings do.
We need to deal with living people in a fashion which recognizes their humanity.
And we need to scan shipping containers carefully. Among other things, it's now possible to detect a near-critical mass of U235 or Pu239 by remote sensing. In other words, we can, given time and funds, tell if somebody is trying to smuggle a nuke into our country. And that's worth holding up a container of drill bits.
We need to deal with living people in a fashion which recognizes their humanity.
And we need to scan shipping containers carefully. Among other things, it's now possible to detect a near-critical mass of U235 or Pu239 by remote sensing. In other words, we can, given time and funds, tell if somebody is trying to smuggle a nuke into our country. And that's worth holding up a container of drill bits.
1
The Republican party says it wants to keep us safe from harm, so it wants the process for vetting Syrian refugees to be even stricter than the two year process that it already is. But if the goal really was having a safe and secure country, why does the Republican party insist that guns be sold without background checks at trade shows, and only give the NCIS 3 days to vet purchases? If this was about keeping America safe, why does the Republican party insist on allowing unlimited sale of military-style assault weapons? The reason we know this isn't about keeping America safe is because 30,000 people die every year from guns, more carnage than an Islamic terrorist could hope to accomplish in his suicidal and demented dreams, and the Republican party just shrugs. I am more afraid of the NRA than I am of ISIS. Republicans are passing this law to heighten anti-Muslim sentiment that they have exaggerated in this country, to make the refugee problem worse, to paint our country as unwelcoming to strangers in need, to heighten the very fear ISIS intended to create, to alienate Muslims in our midst, and so play right into ISIS's game plan. This is not leadership, this is pandering to our worst, inhumane, primitive instincts, and I feel ashamed that they represent my country.
43
Polling shows large majorities of Americans are against allowing Syrian migrants into our country, but the Times insists this bill doesn't reflect America, as if the Times editorial board has ever had its finger on the pulse of our nation. The Times isn't content to ignore the wishes of the majority of Europeans against mass migration; no, now it demands this madness come to our shores.
Liberals don't care who they put in harms way, as long as they can demonstrate their obeisance to the religion of the left: multiculturalism. Terror attacks by Syrian "refugees" do nothing to change this calculus.
Liberals don't care who they put in harms way, as long as they can demonstrate their obeisance to the religion of the left: multiculturalism. Terror attacks by Syrian "refugees" do nothing to change this calculus.
22
And don't forget the two brothers who bombed the Boston marathon. Asylum seekers from Chechnya. But still the NYT buries its head in the sand and cries "bigot" whenever anyone expresses a legitimate concern for public safety. Immigration is a privilege, not a right, and the existing populace of the target nation should have a say, especially when their safety is at stake.
5
I'm sure you will be safe... there's nothing enticing about Kansas City
Mr. Ryan argued that the program needed to be paused “until we can be certain beyond any doubt that those coming here are not a threat.”
“It’s that simple. And I don’t think it’s asking too much,”
Not the standard used for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.....just saying....
The blatant racism and reactionary political partisanship is distressing. The do anything to impugn Obama is still startling virulent.
Governor Spence barring the "school house doors" in Indiana to a Syrian husband, wife and child already processed by the Obama executive branch.
The Mayor of Roanoke Virginia firebranding/demagoging Syrian Moslems.
Strangely enough, the Paris Murderers were primarily French and Belgium citizens. Shouldn't Paul Ryan and Tail Gunner Ted and Jeb Dough! be more fearful of the French, the Walloons and Flemish?
“It’s that simple. And I don’t think it’s asking too much,”
Not the standard used for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.....just saying....
The blatant racism and reactionary political partisanship is distressing. The do anything to impugn Obama is still startling virulent.
Governor Spence barring the "school house doors" in Indiana to a Syrian husband, wife and child already processed by the Obama executive branch.
The Mayor of Roanoke Virginia firebranding/demagoging Syrian Moslems.
Strangely enough, the Paris Murderers were primarily French and Belgium citizens. Shouldn't Paul Ryan and Tail Gunner Ted and Jeb Dough! be more fearful of the French, the Walloons and Flemish?
7
While it is true that only a few Muslim refugees committed terrorist acts in the US, it is also true that every one of them was 'vetted'.
17
The New York Times editorial board is completely out of touch with the people of this country. By allowing their ideology to blind them and rob them of their common sense , they spew words like " hate ", " xenophobia " thinking that this is going to convince more rational minds. Many who are opposed to letting Syrian refugees into this country ARE NOT OPPOSED TO THEM BEING HELPED IN THEIR REGION OF THE WORLD. Why does the Times editorial board fail to consider alternative help proposals that do not require RESETTLEMENT IN THE USA? Why do they seem more like puppets of the current administration rather than a truly independent thinking board? Editorials such as these only serve to fuel the opposing view. They are too skewed to serve any useful purpose.
26
We already take a very small number of refugees compared to our European allies. Moreover, our process is already very stringent and thorough. It takes 18 months of vetting, with interviews and background. While I may agree that the administration has downplayed the strength of ISIS overall, our intelligence and security PROFESSIONALS tell us that these refugees are not a threat.
It is very disheartening that many of my fellow countrymen are willing to surrender our core principles in the face of fear.
It is very disheartening that many of my fellow countrymen are willing to surrender our core principles in the face of fear.
7
LET THE INQUISITION BEGIN!
Jeb Bush on Tuesday dug in further on his position that the United States should prioritize bringing in Christians from among the refugees of the Syrian civil war — and he insisted that people can even prove that they’re Christians.
“Well you’re a Christian,” Bush started off saying to reporters. “You can prove you’re a Christian. It’s—”
“How?” a reporter asked.
Bush gave a shrug: “I think you can prove it — if you can’t prove it then, you know, you err on the side of caution.”
5
Since the French terrorists were (so far as the information, and the terrorists have been "pieced" together) French nationals, shouldn't the right wing "patriots" seek to at least ban all French immigration to this country first?? I thought that's what they wanted after all these years. Now that makes sense. Remember Freedom Fries, Freedon Kisses?? I mean, what am I missing here??
No Hate
No Fear
No Hate
No Fear
1
The Syrian refugees cannot be vetted, and as a result, none should be admitted to the United States. This country has an obligation not to import dangers to the American people -- we have enough homegrown problems as it is. The Boston marathon bombers were admitted through the asylum program -- thank you to our own US government for bringing them in.
30
Tsarnaev brothers were refugees who repaid our hospitality by bombing us.
62
They were not "refugees". Simply not true. No one who has gone through our refugee admission process has ever committed a terrorist act.
2
And vetted.
2
They entered the US on tourist visas. After they were already here, they sought political asylum. Never vetted, nor did they ever go through the stringent refugee process that's now in place.
'...the complicated current process, which already requires that applicants’ histories, family origins, and law enforcement and past travel and immigration records be vetted...'
Which has not worked, since the US has used this vetting system and the outcome has be terrorist attacks by Muslim immigrants on US soil, all of whome were 'vetted'.
'...half of the Syrian refugees accepted into the United States...have been children, and another quarter are over 60 years old...half are female, and many of those applying from abroad are multigenerational families, often with the primary breadwinner missing.'
Leaving aside the religion of the refugees, all of the above will be dependent on US taxpayers for support, the older ones for the rest of their lives. The American people have had more than enough of the 'family unification' policy, where immigrants bring in older relatives for the taxpayers to support at a cost of billions of dollars a year, while our own elderly eat cat food.
'...it is fair to say that the people who will be denied resettlement by this bill would be the victims of war, people who have been tortured and threatened by the same jihadists the United States now battles. ..'
It is also fair to say that some of the people who will be allowed in as refugees will be the perpetrators of war, and are jihadists that our politicians foolishly allowed into the United States, as if American citizen's lives must always come second.
Which has not worked, since the US has used this vetting system and the outcome has be terrorist attacks by Muslim immigrants on US soil, all of whome were 'vetted'.
'...half of the Syrian refugees accepted into the United States...have been children, and another quarter are over 60 years old...half are female, and many of those applying from abroad are multigenerational families, often with the primary breadwinner missing.'
Leaving aside the religion of the refugees, all of the above will be dependent on US taxpayers for support, the older ones for the rest of their lives. The American people have had more than enough of the 'family unification' policy, where immigrants bring in older relatives for the taxpayers to support at a cost of billions of dollars a year, while our own elderly eat cat food.
'...it is fair to say that the people who will be denied resettlement by this bill would be the victims of war, people who have been tortured and threatened by the same jihadists the United States now battles. ..'
It is also fair to say that some of the people who will be allowed in as refugees will be the perpetrators of war, and are jihadists that our politicians foolishly allowed into the United States, as if American citizen's lives must always come second.
12
No refugee has ever committed a terrorist act in the US. You are simply wrong
1
Not only was Tsarnaev an asylum case, and vetted, but Russian intelligence warned U.S. authorities twice that he had become a radicalized jihadist. Go talk with some of the people who lost loved ones, or limbs, or their sight because of the Tsarnaev brothers.
1
Tsarnaev came to the U.S. with his parents, who were vetted and granted asylum, in 2002, at the age of 16. He did not become a radicalized Muslim until his early 20s, and the warning from Russia was in 2011. I don't see the relevance to this discussion.
1
A caller into Wisconsin Public Radio articulated best why would not shut or doors in the races of refugees: There's probably no way to vet them all "properly" but we should let them in because it's the right thing to do even in light of some risk. And for me to accept that the risk is so grave will need to point out one example in which a political refugee has committed an act of terror on American soil.
The NYT has no better method of checking the backgrounds of these people that the Feds do. Today a number of the, were caught posing as refugees entering Greece with maps directing them into Europe. Another 5 in Honduras with stolen passports.
Go create "safe zones" in Syria in the meantime and save these people the lo walk. Set the UN soldiers as peacekeepers. But keep them out of the US.
Go tell the families of those killed in Paris how the killers had not done anything wrong BEFORE the attacks and therefore have a right to have been in Paris.
There are sheep, sheep dogs, and wolves. Never expect a sheep to protect other sheep against wolves.
Go create "safe zones" in Syria in the meantime and save these people the lo walk. Set the UN soldiers as peacekeepers. But keep them out of the US.
Go tell the families of those killed in Paris how the killers had not done anything wrong BEFORE the attacks and therefore have a right to have been in Paris.
There are sheep, sheep dogs, and wolves. Never expect a sheep to protect other sheep against wolves.
13
Apparently, in Paris, at least one refugee was the enemy.
9
You can take that position if you like, and hope there's no prie to pay. If nothing untoward happens, there won't be a price. But if it does, Obama and his party are ruined, next year and for years to come. If you feel comfortable running risks like that you must love living dangerously.
3
But who will write the bill to protect us from Republicans?
9
Any reasonable suggestion to go slow or go a different way from the pro-illegal immigrant, pro-"refugee" policy is called racist and xenophobic, and anti-Islamic.
People are uncomfortable with these people from the middle east and for good reason. We don't see any effort made to bring or force the richest and most influential Arab nations to take part either financially or by taking refugees. Why should we have to pick up the pieces in this mess in their part of the world? And there is a possibility that we can let terrorists in or have them develop from these refugees once they are in our country.
Enough is enough. Stop with prioritizing the needs and use of our taxes and resources, of those OUTSIDE this country. We have enough things to do in this country and need to provide services and resources to our needy citizens and veterans FIRST.
People are uncomfortable with these people from the middle east and for good reason. We don't see any effort made to bring or force the richest and most influential Arab nations to take part either financially or by taking refugees. Why should we have to pick up the pieces in this mess in their part of the world? And there is a possibility that we can let terrorists in or have them develop from these refugees once they are in our country.
Enough is enough. Stop with prioritizing the needs and use of our taxes and resources, of those OUTSIDE this country. We have enough things to do in this country and need to provide services and resources to our needy citizens and veterans FIRST.
9
Gee, I'm an Anglican Christian, lucky me. Paul Ryan is an Irish Catholic. Maybe he can't remember that Irish Catholic's were personae non grata for many years.
Something makes me feel very uncomfortable about the discussion of summarily
excluding people from one country or religion from America as the discussion of excluding Syrian people wholesale.
We need to do our best to vet these Syrian refugees to the United States of course.. But If you're going to block people from coming to this country, let's go full stop and block Belgians and French Muslims too. Who else shall we add to the **watch list**? I have heard informally that Steve Jobs was the son of Syrian refugees; if they were turned away the course of technology would have been interrupted. Lucky me to have ancestors who are from England.
Something makes me feel very uncomfortable about the discussion of summarily
excluding people from one country or religion from America as the discussion of excluding Syrian people wholesale.
We need to do our best to vet these Syrian refugees to the United States of course.. But If you're going to block people from coming to this country, let's go full stop and block Belgians and French Muslims too. Who else shall we add to the **watch list**? I have heard informally that Steve Jobs was the son of Syrian refugees; if they were turned away the course of technology would have been interrupted. Lucky me to have ancestors who are from England.
5
"This bill doesn't reflect who Americans are..." I am very afraid it does. House Speaker Paul Ryan needs to score an early touchdown to demonstrate to his anxious conservative base that he's got the right stuff. Mr. Ryan has inherited the best of all possible situations. He is fully aware of the immigration wound that the base wants cauterized. He cannily demurred when asked to succeed John Boehner before letting it be known he'd accept only on his terms. Mr. Ryan is now free to launch his legislative agenda, a slick parallel shadow to 2016's general election. He has an entire year in the political laboratory free of any real check on his ambitions. An anti-immigration plank is a certain winner for him and his party's eventual nominee. He cannot ignore the dozens of GOP governors who have sworn not to admit those fleeing the Syrian and Iraqi holocausts. In this wise, Mr. Ryan joins hands with Mr. Trump as a defender of the American motherland against teeming hordes of those whom the GOP/TP warn are coming to kill us, or as the desperate Jeb Bush said recently, "our way of life." The spreading of fear is low and cheap but its progeny is likely to be an expense we may not be able to pay. If Mr. Ryan wins on this racist bill, Mr. Trump can take no credit. In the unlikely event that immigration becomes Mr. Trump's albatross, Mr. Ryan can point a finger at the reality TV mogul to take the blame.
10
Val in Brooklyn, NY to soxared040713
What a mind reader you are! You've answered the question re: my suspicion. The governors can't stop this legally but Ryan can deliver an (unmercifully meant) coup de grace or at least seriously injure-delay the process.
Just like WW2; I'm trying not to think "This day will live in infamy." Except the infamy I refer to is FDR's refusal of refugees. History repeats itself--again.
Submitted 11-19-15@2:04 a.m. EST
What a mind reader you are! You've answered the question re: my suspicion. The governors can't stop this legally but Ryan can deliver an (unmercifully meant) coup de grace or at least seriously injure-delay the process.
Just like WW2; I'm trying not to think "This day will live in infamy." Except the infamy I refer to is FDR's refusal of refugees. History repeats itself--again.
Submitted 11-19-15@2:04 a.m. EST
To think United States politicians are committing the same mistake as when the ocean liner MS St. Louis was denied entry in 1939, only 76 years ago. For S H A M E, U. S. Congress...for shame.
18
That was then. This is now. And in the end, they got their own homeland, right?
1
Perhaps if the President had obeyed the law, we would not be at this impasse. Using executive orders to do what he cannot accomplish politically a sign of a despot. Ignoring Congress' request for information about refugees and immigrants who turned out to be terrorists is another. Obama was asked for this information by the beginning of September. It's almost December.
This action is just common sense.
This action is just common sense.
6
I do not trust Obama, nor do I feel safe under Obama's leadership. And, yes, I voted for him twice. I feel betrayed, as do many Americans.
6
The knee jerk response to everything Obama says being "fabulous" and everything the "american people and their representatives want" being wrong is what puts the NYT on the wrong side of the U.S., the U.S. interests, U.S. security and exemplifies the elitist and out of touch realities of the mouthpiece for Obama and the democratic party. Have you no shame!
6
Some of the things coming out of the Republican's mouths is pretty shameful as well. Just for the record. No single political party has a solid lock on representing U.S. interests. That's why it's called a Democracy.
2
70 % + of the these Refugees are young males who are moving for economic reasons, where are the women and children? This President is truly mentally ill along with the Editorial Board of the Times, if they think that terrorists are not going to play the game of the "down trodden".
No screening, no history of past alliances, another stupid,dangerous example of of an administration that is totally out of touch with reality.
No screening, no history of past alliances, another stupid,dangerous example of of an administration that is totally out of touch with reality.
31
Agreed. The Times and other liberals conveniently omit these facts, never mind the world has changed over the last 50 years. Open immigration is the cornerstone no matter how misguided it now is , of the liberal/progressive doctrine.
13
While refugees from war may not be the enemy, we are dealing with an enemy that would easily use the guise of 'refugee', to continue waging its 'holy war'. And therein lies the problem. When the Associated Press reports, as it did today, several Syrians with stolen Greek passports were caught trying to enter Honduras, with the United States as their final destination; it is time to sit up and take notice.
Helping refugees is one thing. And a good thing, at that. But it would be entirely foolish to underestimate this kind of enemy, and what it will do to achieve its goal. This isn't fear-mongering. This is the new world order.
Helping refugees is one thing. And a good thing, at that. But it would be entirely foolish to underestimate this kind of enemy, and what it will do to achieve its goal. This isn't fear-mongering. This is the new world order.
27
But that's kind of the point. Any true terrorist wanting to get here wouldn't do it through a process that usually takes 1-3 years (during which you're closely monitored, so it would be hard to be in touch with others in your organization) and extensive screening. It'd be easier to try a fake passport or even just trying to get across a border at a place with no checkpoints -- hike across. There are plenty of easier ways to enter the U.S.
5
In response to Someone:
ISIS could be copying Al Qaeda in setting up "sleeper cells". Indeed, it has said that it has been doing this.
ISIS could be copying Al Qaeda in setting up "sleeper cells". Indeed, it has said that it has been doing this.
1
Senators Rubio and Cruz oppose the granting of asylum to the Syrian refugees, claiming
that the US should receive only Christians, that the Syrians are Muslims and that our Government does not have a good enough vetting process to screen out potential terrorists.
However the US receives every year more than 50,000 Cuban immigrants that come to this country in boats and through our land borders with Mexico and with Canada under the dry feet policy and they enter the US not under a poor vetting process but without any vetting process at all to the point that we do not even know their names or who they are and immediately get residency papers.
Being Cuba a Communist country and applying Mr. Cruz and Mr. Rubio premise they would be Communist themselves and therefore ineligible for asylum in the US.
Now, even though most of the Cuban immigrants turn out to be who they say they are the fact is that the Cuban Government has managed to infiltrate the US with thousands of hardened criminal, many of whom are in jail at our expense and very many are spies as the famous Gang of Five that was recently released and sent back to Cuba.
Now the newspapers inform us that there are more than 2,000 Cubans in Costa Rica, trying to break the fence with Nicaragua, to the north, in order to continue forward to the US.
Do Mr. Cruz and Mr. Rubio support the continuation of this immigration policy towards Cuba in spite of the fact that there is no war in Cuba or will they oppose it?
that the US should receive only Christians, that the Syrians are Muslims and that our Government does not have a good enough vetting process to screen out potential terrorists.
However the US receives every year more than 50,000 Cuban immigrants that come to this country in boats and through our land borders with Mexico and with Canada under the dry feet policy and they enter the US not under a poor vetting process but without any vetting process at all to the point that we do not even know their names or who they are and immediately get residency papers.
Being Cuba a Communist country and applying Mr. Cruz and Mr. Rubio premise they would be Communist themselves and therefore ineligible for asylum in the US.
Now, even though most of the Cuban immigrants turn out to be who they say they are the fact is that the Cuban Government has managed to infiltrate the US with thousands of hardened criminal, many of whom are in jail at our expense and very many are spies as the famous Gang of Five that was recently released and sent back to Cuba.
Now the newspapers inform us that there are more than 2,000 Cubans in Costa Rica, trying to break the fence with Nicaragua, to the north, in order to continue forward to the US.
Do Mr. Cruz and Mr. Rubio support the continuation of this immigration policy towards Cuba in spite of the fact that there is no war in Cuba or will they oppose it?
10
you forgot about the Cuban boat people back in 1980, look what happened then.. open arms to Cuban murders, rapists, robbers and drug dealers, who then turned Miami into a killing ground.
7
I don't know what I dislike meow your headline or the Republcans refusal to do anything for the average American but being ever so happy to spend time doing this.
No one sees indivuals immigrants as the enemy. What is dangerous is our government's refusal to see the rise of international violent Islam as a threat. They are not the JV nor are their attacks just a set back. They are a group with serious and dangerous goals ...world domination based on an interpretation of Islam that is not so different from that of Saudi Arabia or quiet frankly many Muslims. Their methods may be more violent that most Muslims would want but the foundational beliefs, according to Pew, are shared by a Majority of Muslims world wide. It is this naive and apparently clueless position or our government leaders that gives the GOP its push. The same way that refusal of mainstream political parties to recognize Europeans fears, well founded, that an influx of tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of Muslims will impact their countries and cultures in ways that are neither desired or good for the residents of the host countries gives once unappealing right wing parties a jump in popularity.
No one sees indivuals immigrants as the enemy. What is dangerous is our government's refusal to see the rise of international violent Islam as a threat. They are not the JV nor are their attacks just a set back. They are a group with serious and dangerous goals ...world domination based on an interpretation of Islam that is not so different from that of Saudi Arabia or quiet frankly many Muslims. Their methods may be more violent that most Muslims would want but the foundational beliefs, according to Pew, are shared by a Majority of Muslims world wide. It is this naive and apparently clueless position or our government leaders that gives the GOP its push. The same way that refusal of mainstream political parties to recognize Europeans fears, well founded, that an influx of tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of Muslims will impact their countries and cultures in ways that are neither desired or good for the residents of the host countries gives once unappealing right wing parties a jump in popularity.
4
Is it any surprise the NY Times could care less about the security of this country? Time & time again the editorial page of this once great newspaper has sided with those people who would do our nation harm. Eddie Snowden has done incredible damage to our abilities to track terrorists and the NY Times applauded his treason. The French authorities cited Snowden's damage in the recent attacks. No surprise that the NY Times hasn't reported these facts.
23
And this has what to do with the reality that 98% of Syrian refugees seeking to enter the U.S. are widows, children, and senior citizens, none of whom pose any threat to our national security?
What does this have to do with the 100% of Syrian refugees who are thoroughly vetted by all U.S. national security agencies, extensively, for upwards of TWO YEARS before being granted refugee status and allowed to come to our shores (not to mention the previous 1-2 years of vetting done by the U.N.'s refugee agency, which must be passed first, before they can even apply for U.S. refugee applications)?
Meanwhile, you (and Republicans) still demand that ANY Cuban atheist who arrives in the U.S. MUST immediately be granted refugee status, and in 366 days, MUST be given a green card and expedited track for citizenship, all while being supported by taxpayers. This despite the clear evidence many are hardened criminals, who engage in criminal activities in the U.S., and even evidence some are Cuban spies working for the Cuban government!
Seems nothing terrifies one group of Americans more than conservatives can be terrified by pandering Republicans, who need only screech "Terrorism! National Security!" and their supporters wet their pants.
I found it interesting that President Hollande of France today announced, less than one week after the terrorist attacks in Paris, that France WILL accept 30,000 Syrian refugees, three times what the U.S. has agreed to accept.
What does this have to do with the 100% of Syrian refugees who are thoroughly vetted by all U.S. national security agencies, extensively, for upwards of TWO YEARS before being granted refugee status and allowed to come to our shores (not to mention the previous 1-2 years of vetting done by the U.N.'s refugee agency, which must be passed first, before they can even apply for U.S. refugee applications)?
Meanwhile, you (and Republicans) still demand that ANY Cuban atheist who arrives in the U.S. MUST immediately be granted refugee status, and in 366 days, MUST be given a green card and expedited track for citizenship, all while being supported by taxpayers. This despite the clear evidence many are hardened criminals, who engage in criminal activities in the U.S., and even evidence some are Cuban spies working for the Cuban government!
Seems nothing terrifies one group of Americans more than conservatives can be terrified by pandering Republicans, who need only screech "Terrorism! National Security!" and their supporters wet their pants.
I found it interesting that President Hollande of France today announced, less than one week after the terrorist attacks in Paris, that France WILL accept 30,000 Syrian refugees, three times what the U.S. has agreed to accept.
2
sorry as much as i disagree with the Times on this issue, they were spot on with Snowden. He should be awarded the Medal of Freedom.. A true hero.
2
@zoomie- 98% are able body young men.. haven't you seen the video clips, photos.. very few women and children in the groups. Also, today in France a woman terrorist blew herself up during the police raid. Women can be terrorists. I feel like i'm debating a Russia apologist regarding their stealing of Crimea.
2
Refugees from war are most certainly not the enemy. With that said, Merkel's open door policy is beyond idiotic. It lacks common sense and any responsible rationale. There is a way to handle immigration, migrants, and refugees and open door policy is not the way. It is invitation to chaos and that is not a nite-club. You don't allow a 800,000 people to crawl across Europe. Organize refugee camps, safe havens, process the migrants and then bring them to EU; if it is deemed necessary. Politicians are elected and paid to act responsibly. Merkel has lost her way. Let her resign; give her the Nobel Prize; and push her off into the sunset.
Obama's 10,0000 after being vetted is a responsible policy.
Obama's 10,0000 after being vetted is a responsible policy.
7
Vetted how, exactly? There is no information available on the refugees. And we just saw that it's not just men. A women blew herself up in an apartment that resembled a war arsenal. Children grow up to be disaffected youth vulnerable to radicalization.
4
Why hasn't Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrian, Oman, Qatar, UAE not taken 1 refugee? Don't they have the financial capabilities to do so? Aren't they also Muslim nations? So why do they get to sit this out?
Hillary Clinton wants to allow 65,000. Do you feel this is fair? Can you tell me exactly what this vetting process is? Will this take place before they come here? Homeland Security will be doing this? How do we know that the process will be fair and that someone who fails the vetting process will be deported? And to whom?
We should take care of our homeless vets before we worry about any of these people. They deserve our help and anything we can do to get them back on their feet. We owe them everything. We owe these people nothing
Hillary Clinton wants to allow 65,000. Do you feel this is fair? Can you tell me exactly what this vetting process is? Will this take place before they come here? Homeland Security will be doing this? How do we know that the process will be fair and that someone who fails the vetting process will be deported? And to whom?
We should take care of our homeless vets before we worry about any of these people. They deserve our help and anything we can do to get them back on their feet. We owe them everything. We owe these people nothing
4
because most are Alawites, and Shiites. The Sunni's sworn enemies.
2
Wouldn't the Syrians feel more "at home" in a Mid-Eastern country? Those who are Shia could move to Iran, and those who are Sunni would find refuge in Saudi Arabia or the Gulf States. The Syrians would be able to integrate into these countries whose cultures are more like than own than they would into our western culture.
35
Perhaps...but so what?
Under this concept, we shouldn't accept any immigrants as wouldn't all of them be more at home elsewhere? Wouldn't Swedes be more at home in Norway? Wouldn't Germans be more at home in Austria? Wouldn't ethnic Chinese from the Philippines be more at home in China?
Perhaps they all might be more at home elsewhere...but they're seeking to come to the U.S. for a host of reasons, including freedom, opportunity, education. And we have enough evidence after more than 200 years to know that in the long run immigrants are what have made this nation great.
Under this concept, we shouldn't accept any immigrants as wouldn't all of them be more at home elsewhere? Wouldn't Swedes be more at home in Norway? Wouldn't Germans be more at home in Austria? Wouldn't ethnic Chinese from the Philippines be more at home in China?
Perhaps they all might be more at home elsewhere...but they're seeking to come to the U.S. for a host of reasons, including freedom, opportunity, education. And we have enough evidence after more than 200 years to know that in the long run immigrants are what have made this nation great.
1
no jobs, that's the real reason they are leaving... only to take jobs away from the current population in Europe. Funny, but so much money is being spent on these people, yet very little is going to the current homeless and unemployed. Where on Earth did Merkel find $7 billion dollars for the refugees? Nothing for her homeless and unemployed countrymen.
5
"But so what"? you're kidding? Let the Saudi's or Kuwaitis take them in.. oh i forgot , they are Sunni and the refugees are primarily Shiites and Alawites- their sworn enemy. Besides, the Saudis and Qatar have been providing money and arms to the ISIS gangsters... "But , So What"!!!
1
These new Democrat voters will have to be inculcated in the American culture and go through our ''melting pot.'' Otherwise, all they will know is hate from the internet & local mosque and we will be where France is today in twenty years.
We have to teach them that their god is the same as everyone else's because the crazy-devoted-terrorist concept depends on their god being much better than everyone else's - even though they go back to Abraham/Ibrahim like everyone else among the Judeo-Christians.
We have to teach them that their god is the same as everyone else's because the crazy-devoted-terrorist concept depends on their god being much better than everyone else's - even though they go back to Abraham/Ibrahim like everyone else among the Judeo-Christians.
And while we're at it, can we teach the so-called "Christians" that their God too is the same God as Muslims worship? Because if you listen to rightwing Christian hatemongers, they've been pretty emphatic that their God is NOT the same God as the God of Islam.
6
As a factual matter, the two religions are not worshiping the same concept of God. Islam considers Jesus to be a prophet, but not "the savior." Don't you realize that that means the entire concept of God in each religion is completely different, i.e. as different as Zeus and Buddha?
While we're at it, could we lose "Judeo-Christian"? There is no such thing - just two totally different religions with a bit of overlapping scripture. Jewish values are not really the same as Christian values, except in the basics that virtually all religions share. The fundamental concepts diverge too far for a little hyphen to bridge them.
After other countries in the mid-east each take a few hundred thousand to a million refugees each, then the US and other western countries should consider allowing some to re-settle here.
We can certainly send food and perhaps other aid to help countries there try and deal with the refugees, but this is a mid-east problem and they should have primary responsibility for handling the crisis.
And for those we do take in, stronger vetting is wise given the reality that most do not share and are not open to adopting our values or norms (and they never will), and some terrorists will inevitably try to slip in. We can't fix this problem, only the Muslim people and nations can.
We can certainly send food and perhaps other aid to help countries there try and deal with the refugees, but this is a mid-east problem and they should have primary responsibility for handling the crisis.
And for those we do take in, stronger vetting is wise given the reality that most do not share and are not open to adopting our values or norms (and they never will), and some terrorists will inevitably try to slip in. We can't fix this problem, only the Muslim people and nations can.
5
Please point out any flaws in the current system of screening? Recommendations? Or just political flaming?
Lebanon had a population of 4 million before IsIs and Assad started chewing up Syria.
Lebanon now has 1,000,000 additional souls fleeing Syria. Does this meet your standard?
Lebanon had a population of 4 million before IsIs and Assad started chewing up Syria.
Lebanon now has 1,000,000 additional souls fleeing Syria. Does this meet your standard?
6
Terrorists don't wait two years for refugee status. They buy a ticket, grab their passport and get a tourist visa.
Also, I'm wondering why you think "most do not share and are not open to adopting our values or norms"? I ask because I sometimes hear people generalize about Jews, but if you stood me next to a Satmar Hasid, you might never guess we are both Jews. And if you talked to us, you'd have an even harder time finding any similarities. Not all Syrians are Muslim, and not all Muslims are alike in beliefs and observances, any more than all Christians or Jews are.
Also, I'm wondering why you think "most do not share and are not open to adopting our values or norms"? I ask because I sometimes hear people generalize about Jews, but if you stood me next to a Satmar Hasid, you might never guess we are both Jews. And if you talked to us, you'd have an even harder time finding any similarities. Not all Syrians are Muslim, and not all Muslims are alike in beliefs and observances, any more than all Christians or Jews are.
2
Trying to reason with the Times Editorial board is like trying to reason with a concrete wall. How many times must it be said, its way too easy for terrorists to pretend that they are "refugees". I guess the fact of one of bombers came from the Middle East falls on deaf ears in the Times editorial section. This isn't the year 1945 or 1901, it's 2015 with different realities. Back then there was no Internet, no cell phones, no IED's, no commercial jet aircraft and in 1901, no automobiles, trucks, no more than a literal handful anyway. The Europeans hadn't carved up the Middle east back in 1901 so no need to resent the christian euros, no need to call a holy war against the infidels, so immigration was pretty much open. 1945 saw a need to allow refugees, ex- slave laborers of the Nazis refuge in the U.S. Canada. The fear was, returning most to the U.S.S.R. or Poland would endanger their lives. 2015 - there's a whole new realty, a reality the Times and other bleeding heart, lack of common sense fools refuse to accept. Time to dramatically slowdown the refugee/migrants who want to come here and the EU countries. Haven't you guys noticed that about 90% of these so-called refugees were young able-bodied looking men had cellphones, clean clothes when they arrived in Europe, most wanting to go where the jobs were- Germany. I truly hope that this bill passes Congress. A time out(finally) to our come-as- you-are Trick or Treat immigration policy is desperately needed.
37
Using your "logic", America is under a deeper threat from the Walloons, the Flemish and the French.
After all most of the Paris murderers were citizens of Belgium and France.
Basic common sense.......
After all most of the Paris murderers were citizens of Belgium and France.
Basic common sense.......
6
Nice speech!
Too bad the French have determined that one supposed refugee terrorist wasn't. See, that was based on a forged passport, which has since been determined to NOT have been used by any of the 10 terrorists involved in the attacks last week (and the planned but failed attack in Le Defense). In fact, ALL TEN terrorists are Belgian citizens, born and raised in Belgium. Not one arrived with the hundreds of thousands of refugees admitted to Europe thus far!
Oh, and today, France's President Hollande affirmed France WILL accept another 30,000 Syrian refugees. Apparently the French are not as easily frightened and terrified as American conservatives (aren't conservatives always claiming liberals a weak and frightened, that only they are the brave and tough guys? Sure doesn't look that way).
Now, if you do want to get worked up, go check out the story about how DOJ's records show that at least 2,000 people living here in the U.S. who are on the Terrorist Watch List (who can't fly commercial aircraft) have LEGALLY purchased thousands of firearms in the last five years! Seems, at NRA request, Republicans rewrote the law several years back stating that someone on the Terrorist Watch List can't be prevented from obtaining firearms! Several attempts by Democrats in Congress to correct this have been blocked by House Republicans who refuse to allow a vote on any such bill, as the NRA opposes any such change!
Can't bring in small children, but we can arm potential terrorists?
Too bad the French have determined that one supposed refugee terrorist wasn't. See, that was based on a forged passport, which has since been determined to NOT have been used by any of the 10 terrorists involved in the attacks last week (and the planned but failed attack in Le Defense). In fact, ALL TEN terrorists are Belgian citizens, born and raised in Belgium. Not one arrived with the hundreds of thousands of refugees admitted to Europe thus far!
Oh, and today, France's President Hollande affirmed France WILL accept another 30,000 Syrian refugees. Apparently the French are not as easily frightened and terrified as American conservatives (aren't conservatives always claiming liberals a weak and frightened, that only they are the brave and tough guys? Sure doesn't look that way).
Now, if you do want to get worked up, go check out the story about how DOJ's records show that at least 2,000 people living here in the U.S. who are on the Terrorist Watch List (who can't fly commercial aircraft) have LEGALLY purchased thousands of firearms in the last five years! Seems, at NRA request, Republicans rewrote the law several years back stating that someone on the Terrorist Watch List can't be prevented from obtaining firearms! Several attempts by Democrats in Congress to correct this have been blocked by House Republicans who refuse to allow a vote on any such bill, as the NRA opposes any such change!
Can't bring in small children, but we can arm potential terrorists?
6
The murderers were primarily French and Belgium citizens. It's time to dramatically slow down visitor visas or entry to any and all French, Walloons and Flemish folks.
Haven't you noticed that if you make up stuff that supports your thesis, it is still false?
Haven't you noticed that if you make up stuff that supports your thesis, it is still false?
6
When people fleeing war reach the first place of safety, they are refugees. But when they try to reach countries hundreds of miles away with advanced welfare programs, those people become migrants. Therefore this editorial's premise is wrong to begin with. The US should help fund Turkey's refugee camps while fighting to establish a functioning govt in Syria. Yes to vetted refugees, no to anti-Western migrants looking for the biggest payout.
12
Members of the Times Editorial Board and their families probably won't be encountering many Syrian refugees in the neighborhoods where they live, but judging by the polling data, ordinary, less affluent Americans are worried. I hope that America will welcome a goodly number of Syrian refugees, but it needs to be done in a manner that provides very strong safeguards lest a few very bad apples get into this country and do grievous damage to the prospect of our receiving larger numbers of refugees in the future.
4
Yes....the 1800 currently admitted are totally terrifying. 900 children. 540 over 60 years old. 36 single men......
Out out damned facts.......
Out out damned facts.......
6
Have you read the column? Apparently not...
The current process for Syrian's to come to the U.S. require them to first apply to the U.N.'s Refugee Agency for designation as a refugee from war. The U.N. does extensive background checks against a host of databases to verify they have no criminal record and no association with any terrorists (even being related to one is a disqualification).
Once they pass the U.N.'s check, which takes a minimum of one year, and sometimes up to two years, only then are they allowed to apply for designation as a refugee for admission to the U.S.
That process also takes at least one year, and upwards of two for some. It includes a complete and total check of history, employment, known associations, education, politics, past friends, family, and checks in every national security database currently in use in the U.S. Any negative information is an automatic denial, with no appeals allowed.
After all that, only those who pass all vetting checks will be allowed to come to the U.S. as refugees.
I'd point out, in the last 10 years we've taken in more than 750,000 Middle East refugees, with more than 20,000 of those from Syria. To date, exactly ZERO have been convicted of a terrorist act against the U.S.
The current process for Syrian's to come to the U.S. require them to first apply to the U.N.'s Refugee Agency for designation as a refugee from war. The U.N. does extensive background checks against a host of databases to verify they have no criminal record and no association with any terrorists (even being related to one is a disqualification).
Once they pass the U.N.'s check, which takes a minimum of one year, and sometimes up to two years, only then are they allowed to apply for designation as a refugee for admission to the U.S.
That process also takes at least one year, and upwards of two for some. It includes a complete and total check of history, employment, known associations, education, politics, past friends, family, and checks in every national security database currently in use in the U.S. Any negative information is an automatic denial, with no appeals allowed.
After all that, only those who pass all vetting checks will be allowed to come to the U.S. as refugees.
I'd point out, in the last 10 years we've taken in more than 750,000 Middle East refugees, with more than 20,000 of those from Syria. To date, exactly ZERO have been convicted of a terrorist act against the U.S.
6
that's why 53% of the public now support either stopping the refugees from entering or slowing things down.
Where is the voice of reason on this? Who knows if the Syrian passport found on one of the terrorists was even real - why would he take his passport on a suicide mission unless it was to set a trap that the US is falling into?
We let travelers in unvetted from many other dangerous countries. Why would a Syrian terrorist go through legal channels rather than just sneak in? Chris Christie doesn't even wan't to let toddlers in.
Even if there were a risk involved, wouldn't it be worth it to save the lives of thousands in suffering? I don't believe in god, but WWJD?
We let travelers in unvetted from many other dangerous countries. Why would a Syrian terrorist go through legal channels rather than just sneak in? Chris Christie doesn't even wan't to let toddlers in.
Even if there were a risk involved, wouldn't it be worth it to save the lives of thousands in suffering? I don't believe in god, but WWJD?
9
You're 100% right on the passport.
If ISIS goal was to use Syrian refugees as Trojan horses, why on Earth would they advertise that to the world. It kind of ruins the element of surprise, doesn't it ?
Especially if they are as cunning and sophisticated as the media reports are constantly reminding us. Same thing with the alleged soda can bomb that they are trying to make us believe took down the Russian jet.
If you had an undetectable way to take down jets, how dumb would you have to be to say "and this is how we do it".
If ISIS goal was to use Syrian refugees as Trojan horses, why on Earth would they advertise that to the world. It kind of ruins the element of surprise, doesn't it ?
Especially if they are as cunning and sophisticated as the media reports are constantly reminding us. Same thing with the alleged soda can bomb that they are trying to make us believe took down the Russian jet.
If you had an undetectable way to take down jets, how dumb would you have to be to say "and this is how we do it".
4
Good points!
This refugee process would take a potential terrorist a minimum of TWO YEARS before he'd be here, and could take four years!
Meanwhile, with far less security and vetting, he could obtain a student visa or a tourist visa in mere months! Let's recall that is how all the 9/11 terrorists got here!
This refugee process would take a potential terrorist a minimum of TWO YEARS before he'd be here, and could take four years!
Meanwhile, with far less security and vetting, he could obtain a student visa or a tourist visa in mere months! Let's recall that is how all the 9/11 terrorists got here!
3
The Boston bombers were refugees.
14
Just off the top of my head, you've commiteed the fallacies of hasty generalisation, appeal to fear, guilt by association and slippery slope.
4
Timothy McVeigh was an Iraq War veteran.
What's your point ?
What's your point ?
4
The Boston Bombers were NOT refugees. The amount of ignorance feeding this fear is sickening.
10
I am disgusted. Absolutely disgusted by the Republican response to the Syrian refugee crisis. But in one way I understand it. After enduring 2 hours of FOX news in the waiting room of the auto shop, I can see why the hot air is so effective with their viewers. I mean solid. Nonstop. Terror. Keep us safe. Obama is bad. On. And On. And On. The WSJ reporter, so full of hate. Laura Ingraham as bad as Ann Colter. Bill O'Reilley. It's hard to fight back against this incessant propaganda.
128
We should have faith in the procedures we now have in place. We are talking about providing refuge for less than 1% of the people fleeing conditions that we are in part responsible for. Republican grandstanding on this issue is morally sickening.
15
Having 'faith in the procedures we now have in place' worked out so very well in Boston.
3
We cannot tolerate "faith". Obama needs to educate America on how the process actually works for Syrians applying for refugee status and entry into the US.
With the braying of tail gunner Ted and Jeb Dough!, StormTrumper Donald, Governors Spence et. al., the process in place is lost in fog of antagonism and strident political hatred.
The overt racism engendered in the Republic Party rhetoric is shameful.
With the braying of tail gunner Ted and Jeb Dough!, StormTrumper Donald, Governors Spence et. al., the process in place is lost in fog of antagonism and strident political hatred.
The overt racism engendered in the Republic Party rhetoric is shameful.
1
The Boston example is a bad one. That wasn't a case of Islamist terrorists being granted asylum but two Chechen minors, aged 16 and 9, who were. The elder brother didn't become an extremist until several years after that.
2
Protecting ourselves from danger is natural. If that bill were to pass, I would like our representatives in Washington to do the same for Climate Change - which is a threat potentially more devastating for everybody on the planet. Like terrorism we don't know much about it and our best option is to do everything we can to avoid the worst risks.
9
Most terrorists are children of refugees living decent, if not middle class, lives. Their families are devastated. Europe has so many of these young people to monitor the job is impossible. It makes no sense to add to the current population of potential jihadists in the west.
15
According to hundreds of American law enforcement agencies nationwide, when asked to name what they considered to be the three biggest threats to public order in their jurisdictions, Islamic extremism was listed as one of the three allowed choices by barely 30%.
By contrast, Christian extremism was cited as a serious problem by more than 60% of law enforcement professionals!
Perhaps we should be spending more time looking for violent homegrown Christian terrorists, as law enforcement consider them the greater threat, and in fact there have been three times more American Christian terrorist attacks in the U.S. in the last decade than there have been American Muslim terrorist attacks in the U.S. in the same timeframe!
Singling out Muslims as potential terrorists here while ignoring Christian actual terrorists seems to affirm the claim religious bigotry drives the opposition to Muslims only.
By contrast, Christian extremism was cited as a serious problem by more than 60% of law enforcement professionals!
Perhaps we should be spending more time looking for violent homegrown Christian terrorists, as law enforcement consider them the greater threat, and in fact there have been three times more American Christian terrorist attacks in the U.S. in the last decade than there have been American Muslim terrorist attacks in the U.S. in the same timeframe!
Singling out Muslims as potential terrorists here while ignoring Christian actual terrorists seems to affirm the claim religious bigotry drives the opposition to Muslims only.
3
There should not be any hold up for children & mothers with children or the aged.Young men should be put through stricter vetting, that should not exceed three months, anything longer is a ploy to stop the refugees from entering our country.It bothers me that wealthy Middle East countries like Saudi Arabia, are not doing their part in taking in the refugees, who are mainly Sunnis.It would certainly be a better fit than predominately Christian countries where there is fascist animosity against Muslims or anyone that isn't Christian.
2
Complicated current process already requires that applicants’ histories, family origins, and law enforcement and past travel and immigration records be vetted by national security, intelligence, law enforcement and consular officials. This process can take 18 months to two years for each person.
--------------------------------------------------------------
First of all, how can anyone screen family and travel histories of 'refugees' when most of them have no travel documents or carry fake ones?
Secondly, if the process is going to take 18 to 24 months to complete for EACH PERSON, then it makes a mockery of the humanity that compels those fleeing harm to receive safe haven post haste. Are you saying that the refugees need to apply and wait 18 to 24 months before they can receive yes or no for moving to the States?
Looks like the editors of this newspaper have taken leave of their commonsense, and are merely happy to parrot out the official talking points in their editorials. That is a crying shame.
--------------------------------------------------------------
First of all, how can anyone screen family and travel histories of 'refugees' when most of them have no travel documents or carry fake ones?
Secondly, if the process is going to take 18 to 24 months to complete for EACH PERSON, then it makes a mockery of the humanity that compels those fleeing harm to receive safe haven post haste. Are you saying that the refugees need to apply and wait 18 to 24 months before they can receive yes or no for moving to the States?
Looks like the editors of this newspaper have taken leave of their commonsense, and are merely happy to parrot out the official talking points in their editorials. That is a crying shame.
15
Speaking for my daughter, a lawyer who specializes in immigration law, the process you mock as somehow fake is EXACTLY the process we've used for the last 15 years!!!
Individuals seeking to enter the U.S. as refugees of war wait a minimum of one year, but more commonly two years, before they can come here. Their background IS extensively examined, and their information is checked against dozens of national security databases maintained by CIA, DIA, NSA, UN agencies, FBI, DOJ, INTERPOL, and many, many more! ANY discrepancy is a disqualification, with no appeal allowed!
Let's note that under this system, we've allowed roughly 20,000 Syrians into the U.S. as refugees in the last 10 years. Thus far, exactly ZERO have been subsequently accused or arrested for any terrorist activities.
Sounds to me the system actually works quite well! Why not let it do its job, instead of a knee-jerk cowardly response (or clear GOP political pandering)?
Individuals seeking to enter the U.S. as refugees of war wait a minimum of one year, but more commonly two years, before they can come here. Their background IS extensively examined, and their information is checked against dozens of national security databases maintained by CIA, DIA, NSA, UN agencies, FBI, DOJ, INTERPOL, and many, many more! ANY discrepancy is a disqualification, with no appeal allowed!
Let's note that under this system, we've allowed roughly 20,000 Syrians into the U.S. as refugees in the last 10 years. Thus far, exactly ZERO have been subsequently accused or arrested for any terrorist activities.
Sounds to me the system actually works quite well! Why not let it do its job, instead of a knee-jerk cowardly response (or clear GOP political pandering)?
8
I applaud your well thought out Editorial. The recent House Resolution looks like a knee jerk reaction over what happened in Paris.
It reminds me how following the 9/1 tragedy the PATRIOT Bill was passed without much thought. If we continue to follow that line we have given the terrorist what they fondly want. Fear Xenophobia hatred are poison for s free democratic society.
I agree with you to hope that President will veto this hastily drawn bill by GOP. I smell political opportunism here!
It reminds me how following the 9/1 tragedy the PATRIOT Bill was passed without much thought. If we continue to follow that line we have given the terrorist what they fondly want. Fear Xenophobia hatred are poison for s free democratic society.
I agree with you to hope that President will veto this hastily drawn bill by GOP. I smell political opportunism here!
10
The Republican, and some Democratic, politicians are using the oldest trick in the book. Selling hate and fear of "the other." None of the folks supporting this have said what they will change exactly, or what is wrong exactly, or seem to have any knowledge about what the process currently is. The current screening process can take up to two years, Many immigrant rights activists say that this process already takes too long, and since the applicants must wait abroad, often in the same areas they are trying to flee, say that many of the applicants will likely die waiting, as victims of war and its related affects of famine, disease, etc.
It seems like the Republican plan is to delay the process so that most of the applicants simply die of old age in the decades the plan will take.
It seems like the Republican plan is to delay the process so that most of the applicants simply die of old age in the decades the plan will take.
17
The bigger problem here is the disdain that Chris Christie has for law enforcement, calling them unfit to properly vet people coming into the country.
5
Fran - what data do we have with which to vet these people? Gov. Christie just beat you to the correct realization. All we wil have to go on is conversations one-on-one afer 7 years of disastrous failures by the very SAME government.
7
@fran soyer,
What happened with vetting of those 5 Syrian fighters on which US spent $500,000,000 and who passed US weapons to the enemy?
What happened with vetting of those 5 Syrian fighters on which US spent $500,000,000 and who passed US weapons to the enemy?
1
Steve,
Do you really believe that the DHS is useless ? Or that Obama has ruined it beyond repair ?
7 years, and I never once saw impeachment articles written up stating that Obama made the DHS useless and law enforcement impotent against terrorists. And if they thought this and didn't impeach, they need to tell their constituents why they failed to assert their right to do so under the Constitution.
This is a Republican led Congress. If they can impeach Clinton over an affair, I think they could muster up enough courage to do so for destroying our national security apparatus.
The truth is he didn't make the DHS/INS impotent, but in your blind allegiance to your party, you've suspended all logic to assert that he has.
I trust the DHS and the INS over Christie ( who couldn't even vet his own deputies ) any day of the year.
Do you really believe that the DHS is useless ? Or that Obama has ruined it beyond repair ?
7 years, and I never once saw impeachment articles written up stating that Obama made the DHS useless and law enforcement impotent against terrorists. And if they thought this and didn't impeach, they need to tell their constituents why they failed to assert their right to do so under the Constitution.
This is a Republican led Congress. If they can impeach Clinton over an affair, I think they could muster up enough courage to do so for destroying our national security apparatus.
The truth is he didn't make the DHS/INS impotent, but in your blind allegiance to your party, you've suspended all logic to assert that he has.
I trust the DHS and the INS over Christie ( who couldn't even vet his own deputies ) any day of the year.
4
A few years back when we were letting Iraqi war refugees into the US, two terrorists slipped in hidden among the legitimate refugees. If not for excellent police work, these terrorists would have killed innocent Americans. Everyone needs to take a deep breath as this is not a black or white issue that Obama is trying to make it look like. Anyway, he really could care less about these people. This is purely political for people like him and Bill de Blasio.....They see an opportunity to denigrate the opposition even though they are putting New Yorkers at risk......
10
So you don't trust the police anymore ?
I trust them, as I do the DHS and the INS. Why do you have trouble with them ?
I trust them, as I do the DHS and the INS. Why do you have trouble with them ?
5
Daniel, I don't mean to be rude or to challenge you on this. I would appreciate it if you could provide a link to this, and or more information about it. Thx
2
Daniel. the grandstanding seems to be on the part of the Teapublicans who couldn't wait to use the Paris attacks to demand that we not accept any refugees while our veterans are being neglected. Of course they had voted down FIVE bills to help our veterans, but that is beside the point according to them. The issue is that their party doesn't want to help anyone.
7
Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
Maybe it's time to dismantle the Statue of Liberty.
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
Maybe it's time to dismantle the Statue of Liberty.
13
That statue champions LEGAL immigration to a world of innocent people who will leave everyone else alone. It also didn't apply to Nazi saboteurs deposited on New Jersey beaches during WWII.
2
Refugees are legal migrants who are already thoroughly vetted.
7
How kind of the NY Times Editorial Board, the official voice of Fantasyland, to endanger my children's future by invoking the marvelously simplistic argument that all refugees "deserve a chance." I am honored to risk my loved ones lives for the Board's latest shot at sainthood.
59
@John D,
Thanks! That's exactly it! The lives of our loved ones. Those aspiring saints who prefer to pretend that it isn't the most important thing are selling their soul.
Thanks! That's exactly it! The lives of our loved ones. Those aspiring saints who prefer to pretend that it isn't the most important thing are selling their soul.
2
My child could be in the Mayflower Society if she so chose, since there was no one here in 1620 to deny entry to her refugee ancestor (age 8). As an adult she lives in a neighborhood full of Nepalese and Vietnamese who came here for reasons similar to those of the Syrian refugees today, and it seems to be working out OK.
7
It is true that the refugees from this war in Syria aren't the enemy HOWEVER the interchanging between "moderate" Muslim and "radical" ones is becoming the norm. Let's be honest about this - WHERE are the so-called "moderates" who should be leading the call for tolerance and openness and refuting the radical agenda of ISIS and others. Let's consider our "allies", countries like Saudi Arabia and Kuwait etc. They are REPRESSIVE almost to the extent of ISIS. Public beheadings? Check. Women not allowed to drive or have any role in society? Check. "Death to Israel"? Check. Homosexuals subject to public flogging and hanging? Check. HOW are people supposed to feel about this? We are constantly being told that these radicals don't represent "mainstream Islam" but WHERE exactly can one find an example of a country living as "mainstream" or "moderate"? I don't know of any such place and that, very sadly, is causing this backlash against these poor souls who are fleeing for their lives. How about putting soldiers on the ground, stabilizing the situation, and allowing these refugees to REMAIN in their homes? I know that implies "state building" but isn't that what we should be doing? What other long-term solution can there possibly be?
24
Indonesia, Malaysia, Bosnia, Albania, all Muslim, all moderate. Bangladesh is poor but has a woman Prime Minister.
1
Indonesia, Malaysia and Bangladesh are hardly paradigms of moderation. They each have high levels of political violence and instability and also suffer from tensions between the sectarian and non-sectarian parts of their societies. Yes Bangladesh has a female prime minister but she's part of a family dynasty that can hardly be called "democratic" or "progressive". In fact currently there is increased tensions between terrorists and Christian minorities, among other serious tensions in that land. As to the Balkans, they have suffered such high levels of strife and turmoil that I really don't think we can consider them serious examples that anyone would want to emulate. Moreover there are 1.6 BILLION Muslims and Bosnia and Albania each have less than 4 million residents, so.....sorry but I'm not buying your examples as viable ones.
4
Bangladesh has a woman Prime Minister because it is a feudal state run by a few powerful families. Sheikh Hasina Wajed is a member of one of these families, as is her rival Khaleda Zia. In any case, Bangladesh isn't doing too well on the moderation front, what with Islamic assassins murdering bloggers in the streets. Both Malaysia and Indonesia have long been religiously moderate, but they are getting less moderate every year, in part because of the influence of Saudi Arabia. Malaysia, in particular, is cracking down hard on non-Muslims, in every area from speech to education to marriage. Women's rights are also under attack in Malaysia. With the possible exception of Tunisia, the moderates are losing or have lost all over the Islamic world.
4
I do not fear widows, orphans or old people but I definitely worry that young Syrians of both genders may become radicalized or already are and may cause atrocities here in what is called Jihad. It's awful that it's come to this but should I trust the Editorial Board or the Director of the FBI who says we can't vet Syrians. Marco Rubio has a point when he asks " How do we vet Syrians--call Syria?" We all know that almost all the refugees want peace and a chance to live without fear --almost all.
115
30,000 people die each year (350,000 since 911) on US highways as innocent victims of poor highway/auto designs in many cases and we don't stop driving. Yet we are afraid of a few Syrians trying to escape from a war torn country and our current screening process takes 18 months to vet someone, we spend 100's of billions of $ on the CIA, NSA, FBI, DoD, etc....if they can't do their job and prevent the wrong people from coming in to the US, then we are spending our money the wrong way.
.....we should be more concerned about those American's who have no justifiable reason to own a hand gun yet can easily purchase one and commit horrendous crimes against other Americans.
We need to get our priorities straight.
.....we should be more concerned about those American's who have no justifiable reason to own a hand gun yet can easily purchase one and commit horrendous crimes against other Americans.
We need to get our priorities straight.
11
Imagine two families coming out of a communist country in which its dictator
harangued the population constantly.
Would Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio be in the Senate today if my great country had been as tough on the admission of their parents as the admission requirements they would now impose on displaced Syrians?
9
Those children will need schooling, those women will get pregnant again, and those old people will run up costly medical bills which will have to be financed through taxpayers' extortionate contributions to a cause imposed upon them in a very lordly fashion.
Ours were all ready vetting. Those coming over have lived in tents for a year or more.
Take them.
Take them.
6
This is a sad display of cowardice and political grandstanding.
The goal of terrorism is to scare individuals and governments into inaction or over-reaction which serves to validate the power and legitimacy of the terrorists. ISIS has apparently so terrorized the Republicans in Congress that they want to require absurd certifications as a precondition to helping Syrian families who left behind everything they own and fled for their lives to avoid being slaughtered or enslaved. Republican governors are even bigger cowards wanting to shut their borders to vetted Syrian refugees.
Can we call ourselves “the land of the free and the home of the brave” when we are paralyzed by fear, unable to extend a helping hand to the victims of our enemy?
The goal of terrorism is to scare individuals and governments into inaction or over-reaction which serves to validate the power and legitimacy of the terrorists. ISIS has apparently so terrorized the Republicans in Congress that they want to require absurd certifications as a precondition to helping Syrian families who left behind everything they own and fled for their lives to avoid being slaughtered or enslaved. Republican governors are even bigger cowards wanting to shut their borders to vetted Syrian refugees.
Can we call ourselves “the land of the free and the home of the brave” when we are paralyzed by fear, unable to extend a helping hand to the victims of our enemy?
315
The Syrian refugees are not our responsibility, period. We are not the soup kitchen of the world, providing shelter to every charity case out there.
No, the goal of the ISIS terrorists is destroy Western culture and to murder Americans, not just to frighten us. This is not the hour for naivete.
We were a soup kitchen for the parents, grandparents and great-grandparents of tens of millions of Americans.
3
How many of the 57 Islamc countries welcome non Muslim refugees, and how many in total have been embraced by them over the past half century. More broadly, how much money and aide have Muslims worldwide contributed to non Muslims after disasters. Any Amercan embrace of Muslim 'refugees' should reflect such.
55
An excellent piece. This is madness pure and simple. The president should veto.
12
We have a huge opportunity to win hearts and minds. Consider the narrative of a warm welcome compared to that of a slammed door or a wall. If we embrace the refugees, especially Muslims, we would showcase our compassion and values in stark contrast to ISIS who is driving out the same people: America is great.
Gain friends or leave them in camps to fester, which do you think is more likely to aid in the war on terrorism?
Gain friends or leave them in camps to fester, which do you think is more likely to aid in the war on terrorism?
312
I guess there might be a few instances where we were able to "win the hearts and minds" of Muslims, but I can't think of one right now. I am afraid this might be as naive as thinking we would be greeted with flowers when we invaded Iraq.
6
Really? Are things that simple?
If simply letting people through the door (political gimmick) rather than a comprehensive plan to settle/school/employ AND monitor (long hard work with no political gain) is going to work, northern europe must be in a good place. Not! Decades of short sighted leadership have divided and destroyed countries and cultures.
If simply letting people through the door (political gimmick) rather than a comprehensive plan to settle/school/employ AND monitor (long hard work with no political gain) is going to work, northern europe must be in a good place. Not! Decades of short sighted leadership have divided and destroyed countries and cultures.
3
The Boston Bombers and their families were 'warmly welcomed' and supported by the taxpayers for years.
We all see how our generosity has paid off, just as we see the endless Muslim terrorist acts and riots that have occurred in the US and Europe for decades.
Not all Muslims are terrorists, but there is no doubt that some of them will be.
Why should we take that chance?
We all see how our generosity has paid off, just as we see the endless Muslim terrorist acts and riots that have occurred in the US and Europe for decades.
Not all Muslims are terrorists, but there is no doubt that some of them will be.
Why should we take that chance?
6
As a New Yorker, I welcome added security to screen people who could potentially kill innocent people. The proposed House bill is reasonable, and considering the risk, is worthy of discussion.
However, opposing the bill allows certain people to assert their righteousness, and unfortunately, that is the main goal of many people in our society.
There is always a balance between security and freedom. There is no role for sanctimony from either side. So let's have an honest debate, and stop with these bold proclamations that distort the goal of a safer country.
However, opposing the bill allows certain people to assert their righteousness, and unfortunately, that is the main goal of many people in our society.
There is always a balance between security and freedom. There is no role for sanctimony from either side. So let's have an honest debate, and stop with these bold proclamations that distort the goal of a safer country.
119
As a New Yorker, I'd like to see that we don't all share the xenophobic hysteria of those who see risks where the track record of refugees in this country since 9/11 shows aren't there. Proposing this bill allows people to exploit the reaction to the Paris bombing for political points.
8
you didn't read the article, did you? this bill does *nothing* to improve security. it's smoke and mirrors. it panders to our basest fears. as another commenter noted, gun violence in this country is a bigger public health concern than admitting asylum seekers from war-torn countries.
11
As an American, I still recall Colin Powell's warning about invading Iraq: "You break it. You bought it." So, we broke it and now the blowback comes and we raise our hands and say, "Not our problem." Such global irresponsibility is exactly why you feel threatened.
9
President Obama has already threatened to do so and should do so. On the Syrian refugee issue, it's the Republican governors who are acting unconstitutionally and unlawfully by trying to exclude refugees from their states. The US Constitution places the right to control immigration (which includes refugees) exclusively within the power of the federal government, and the federal statutes governing refugees give the Executive Branch the power to admit and settle refugees in this country. Republicans need to learn to comply with the Constitution and federal law.
13
There are many Syrian-Americans living in Los Angeles who have being trying for years to bring over family members, typically siblings and aged parents, long before ISIS raised its ugly head. Some of them are Christians or political refugees who fled from the first Assad regime. There are thousands of Syrians like these, waiting patiently to be reunited with their US-citizen families, who are now refugees themselves, having fled to Lebanon or Jordan. Vetting them should be simple; much of the paperwork has already been done. We shouldn't tar all Syrian refugees with the same brush.
18
How will their aged parents contribute to the country? Who will support them and provide for their expensive medical care?
And while 'vetting them should be simple', the Boston Bomber's family was vetted.
And while 'vetting them should be simple', the Boston Bomber's family was vetted.
6
Five of the wealthiest Muslim countries have taken no Syrian refugees in at all, arguing that doing so would open them up to the risk of terrorism. Although the oil rich countries have handed over aid money, Britain has donated more than Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates and Qatar combined.
Hello, Mr President...
Hello, Mr President...
69
And your point is that we should emulate Saudi Arabia?
7
You are repeating a myth. Saudi Arabia, for instance, has taken in thousands of Syrian refugees, definitely more than 100,000. Because they are not a signer to the UN Convention on Refugees, those refugees are not counted in the UN count. That doesn't mean they don't exist. In fact, Saudi Arabia does not refer to them as refugees, but something like Arab neighbors in distress, roughly speaking.
I beg the NYT: please do a serious analysis of Syrian refugees (in fact, refugees from all parts of the Middle East) and then probably repeat the story every day for three years so we can destroy this myth of wealthy Muslim countries taking no refugees.
I beg the NYT: please do a serious analysis of Syrian refugees (in fact, refugees from all parts of the Middle East) and then probably repeat the story every day for three years so we can destroy this myth of wealthy Muslim countries taking no refugees.
4
If refugee visas are at all like other visas there is already a mountain of paperwork and vetting that they have to go through. What's the benefit of adding more?
But beyond that, I have never understood our nation's response to terrorism (whether about refugees or civil liberties or anything else) on a fundamental level, and I would love it if anyone could provide a logical explanation.
From my perspective, terrorism seems very much like crime to me, except that it is statistically much less dangerous in the west. In the USA there are about 16,000 murders per year: about triple the number have ever been killed by terrorists in all years in our nation's entire history combined.
Overall, criminals kill us at somewhere between 100 and 1,000 times the rate of terrorists. We could change our constitution, reduce our civil liberties, and take drastic action to improve our safety from common crime and we would save a lot of lives as a result. But we don't. Instead we focus all our attention and our willing to take drastic action to save comparatively few people from terrorism.
The only reason that makes sense to me for this disconnect is an emotional one. Death from crime sounds commonplace, while death from foreign attackers sounds exotic and perhaps extra scary as a result. But aside from the motivations of the attackers, is there any relevant difference that justifies our different response?
But beyond that, I have never understood our nation's response to terrorism (whether about refugees or civil liberties or anything else) on a fundamental level, and I would love it if anyone could provide a logical explanation.
From my perspective, terrorism seems very much like crime to me, except that it is statistically much less dangerous in the west. In the USA there are about 16,000 murders per year: about triple the number have ever been killed by terrorists in all years in our nation's entire history combined.
Overall, criminals kill us at somewhere between 100 and 1,000 times the rate of terrorists. We could change our constitution, reduce our civil liberties, and take drastic action to improve our safety from common crime and we would save a lot of lives as a result. But we don't. Instead we focus all our attention and our willing to take drastic action to save comparatively few people from terrorism.
The only reason that makes sense to me for this disconnect is an emotional one. Death from crime sounds commonplace, while death from foreign attackers sounds exotic and perhaps extra scary as a result. But aside from the motivations of the attackers, is there any relevant difference that justifies our different response?
19
By law, "refugees" are already screened for their religious beliefs. There is no law that says we have to accept a particular number of refugees. It could be zero.
Obama did nothing when Assad was gassing his own people 3 years ago but now it's an election year, the economy is still in the toilet, and Democrats got their rears handed to them a couple weeks ago all across the country in elections.
There are reports now that 8 Syrians were caught at the Texas/Mexico border who were on the terror list.
Obama did nothing when Assad was gassing his own people 3 years ago but now it's an election year, the economy is still in the toilet, and Democrats got their rears handed to them a couple weeks ago all across the country in elections.
There are reports now that 8 Syrians were caught at the Texas/Mexico border who were on the terror list.
2
How can we catch Syrians at the Texas / Mexico border ?
There's no wall, and according to the Republican Presidential candidates, Obama lets them come and go as they please, bringing who knows what into the country.
There's no wall, and according to the Republican Presidential candidates, Obama lets them come and go as they please, bringing who knows what into the country.
According to a Bloomberg survey fifty-three percent of U.S. adults in the survey, conducted in the days immediately following the attacks, say the nation should not continue a program to resettle up to 10,000 Syrian refugees. Just 28 percent would keep the program with the screening process as it now exists, while 11 percent said they would favor a limited program to accept only Syrian Christians while excluding Muslims, a proposal Obama has dismissed as “shameful” and un-American. I think Obama exacerbates the problem by calling people who have legitimate concerns and disagree with him "un-American". This is not how a true leader treats the people who elected him. He'd be better advised to adopt the calm and cogent argument made by this editorial. This has a better chance of convincing the Americans than a junior-high name-calling.
5
And people were 95% in favor of the Iraq War. These polls are useless and say more about how gullible they are than anything else.
"I don't listen very much to the polls" - George W Bush
"I don't listen very much to the polls" - George W Bush
11
The Yazidis are facing genocide. We should take every one of them. The Christians are facing severe persecution. We should take them, too. The Alawites (muslims but considered heretics by ISIS) are toast if ISIS gets to them. We should take them, but we should accept the likelihood that a few of them will be working for Assad. We can live with that; they may be spies, but they won't be terrorists. As for the Sunnis, we should be very careful, but we shouldn't turn our backs completely. ISIS is slaughtering a lot of them, too.
7
I think some of the Jihadists have been coming here through the Mexican border for awhile now....
4
Is there something concrete that gives you that feeling? For non-Latinos, crossing the border is a lot harder than people believe. Getting to the border, crossing it, and remaining under the radar are difficult enough. But few of the Jihadis have some or all of the of skills necessary, including things like speaking English and having familiarity with life here.
I suggest that if they could do it, they would have done so already
I suggest that if they could do it, they would have done so already
5
Andrew S,
Immigrants and drugs both get through on a regular basis. The mexican drug cartels and human traffickers are experts at tunnel building. Chapo Guzman escaped from prison using a well financed and planned tunnel. It's not so ridiculous to believe that IS hasn't gotten people through the Mexican border.
Immigrants and drugs both get through on a regular basis. The mexican drug cartels and human traffickers are experts at tunnel building. Chapo Guzman escaped from prison using a well financed and planned tunnel. It's not so ridiculous to believe that IS hasn't gotten people through the Mexican border.
1
You may be overthinking this. Why would they risk sneaking through the back door when they can so easily enter by the front door, flying in with a passport and visa, just like every other tourist?
The math means that so far 12% of the Syrian refugees accepted into the United States are males of combat age. And the news from France just said that a woman there have blown herself up with a suicide vest.
3
The Republican bill isn't about protecting the country, it's about making Republicans look good, at others' expense.
For the GOP there's no downside: they get to thump their chests and claim their protecting the country even if no terrorists are found. And if all this additional federal busywork they would require actually nets a bad guy, they get to do their favorite thing, point fingers.
Meanwhile, refugees suffer, and ISIS recruits from among the disaffected. Thanks, GOP, for pumping up your reputation among American paranoiacs and bigots at the expense of the needy and of our real security. But that's been your specialty for quite a while now.
For the GOP there's no downside: they get to thump their chests and claim their protecting the country even if no terrorists are found. And if all this additional federal busywork they would require actually nets a bad guy, they get to do their favorite thing, point fingers.
Meanwhile, refugees suffer, and ISIS recruits from among the disaffected. Thanks, GOP, for pumping up your reputation among American paranoiacs and bigots at the expense of the needy and of our real security. But that's been your specialty for quite a while now.
418
Jeremy, I too am from Indiana. Our Governor Pence has pointedly said he will break the law and ignore the Constitution. I note that he has 55% support on this issue in a conservative state, and has the support of the top echelon of the IndyStar. He intimidated the agency responsible for settling these Syrian refugees. Only through the agency not wanting the same sort of excruciating publicity and backlash made popular by the Breitbart hit jobs on mainstream conservative media saved Pence from actually going ahead and breaking the law. He has ran a perfectly respectful and well-vetted young family out of our state by intimidation.
I'm outraged... if I felt that a few well-vetted refugees were a threat, I too would be alarmed, as I have a family I love. But I don't feel that this is anymore than a poll-driven political hissy-fit.
I'm wondering just how welcome already-established families from the Mideast are feeling in Indiana. Considering that a big part of those families are of the medical profession, one hopes that more of this "Hoosier Hospitality" won't drive them out of state, too.
I'm outraged... if I felt that a few well-vetted refugees were a threat, I too would be alarmed, as I have a family I love. But I don't feel that this is anymore than a poll-driven political hissy-fit.
I'm wondering just how welcome already-established families from the Mideast are feeling in Indiana. Considering that a big part of those families are of the medical profession, one hopes that more of this "Hoosier Hospitality" won't drive them out of state, too.
11
Many liberal types want to risk my life and the lives of others to make themselves "feel good". The old, "ISIS will gain recruits because we are mean" is a tired and without-proof logic.
One look at the terrorism from 9/11, France(multiple times), Britain, Egypt, beheadings etc. should tell even the most liberal-minded person that we shouldn't be bringing any potential terror groups or individuals into this country.
One look at the terrorism from 9/11, France(multiple times), Britain, Egypt, beheadings etc. should tell even the most liberal-minded person that we shouldn't be bringing any potential terror groups or individuals into this country.
2
Do we really want to accept refugees who would be willing to become radicalized simply because we will not allow them to emigrate?
28 massacred in a grade school in CT and the GOP can't act because it's too soon, when emotions are running so high. But a bombing in Paris, somehow, doesn't have the same calm reaction from those contemptible Congressmen
356
school shooting cannot be preventable, all those background checks will do nothing as long you have mental issues in this country, but atleast you can prevent more terrorists coming into this country
1
Perhaps it is time to officially break America up into 4 nations and let the folks who continue to elect fools and knaves have their own "more imperfect union" and leave the rest of us alone.
9
@Francis
At the cost of generating more terrorists precisely because of people who buy in the idea that this is a confrontation with Islam per se?
At the cost of generating more terrorists precisely because of people who buy in the idea that this is a confrontation with Islam per se?
2
It only took 4 days after the attacks for the pro-migrant drumbeat to beat again from the New York Times.
When will it end? If given a choice, upwords of 6 billion people worldwide would move to the US.
For the 1000th time, taking in millions (and it will eventually be millions) of unassimilated Islamic migrants will be and economic, cultural, and ultimately a security disaster for the US and the West.
When will it end? If given a choice, upwords of 6 billion people worldwide would move to the US.
For the 1000th time, taking in millions (and it will eventually be millions) of unassimilated Islamic migrants will be and economic, cultural, and ultimately a security disaster for the US and the West.
75
The assumption that "it will eventually be millions" is utterly groundless. At the moment, we are talking about 10,000. Even the Vietnamese refugee crisis only resulted in 1.3 million people coming into the United States over 22 YEARS so the idea that were talking about millions of Syrians is baseless. The security "disaster" is also alarmist. As The Economist pointed out, the 750,000 refugees taken into the U.S. since 9/11 haven't produced a single terrorist.
15
Not everyone wants to move to the US. I moved away more than 30 years ago and have never regretted it. I come back to visit from time to time, and pay my US taxes.
In fact, most of the Syrian refugees seem to want to come to Northern Europe and not the US.
In fact, most of the Syrian refugees seem to want to come to Northern Europe and not the US.
7
Even little Australia (24 million) is going to take more Syrian refugees than the USA (320 million). The present refugee crisis is directly related to the ill conceived plan to depose Saddam Hussein. The USA helped to further destabilise the Middle East, yet many want to turn away the people you have helped to become refugees.
No one is talking about millions of refugees going to the USA. It is a carefully screened group of 10,000. Don't let your view be hindered by the facts surrounding these Syrian refugees.
No one is talking about millions of refugees going to the USA. It is a carefully screened group of 10,000. Don't let your view be hindered by the facts surrounding these Syrian refugees.
15
That’s a lot of women, children, and old people.
-------------------------------
Are you saying that women cannot be jihadis? Think again. Just today, a woman blew herself up and wanted to kill the entering cops by activating her suicide vest.
If there are old people in dire need of safe haven, what use is the 18-24 month-long vetting process for admission?
#Insanity
-------------------------------
Are you saying that women cannot be jihadis? Think again. Just today, a woman blew herself up and wanted to kill the entering cops by activating her suicide vest.
If there are old people in dire need of safe haven, what use is the 18-24 month-long vetting process for admission?
#Insanity
31
Not to mention those ailing old people who will receive free medical care on the US taxpayer's dime whilst millions of young graduates drown in usurious student debt.
2
It's so sad -- and downright shameful -- that this is what some of our "leaders" want to do. It would be different if we had ANY evidence that the current lengthy and thorough screening was failing us. But we have admitted something like 750,000 refugees since 9/11, many of them from troubled and war torn areas, and NOT ONE has been involved in any terrorism. Meanwhile, we have about 70 murders or suicides from regular old gun violence every day (so the equivalent of one Paris attack every other day). A rational person would conclude that THAT's the national security issue we should be addressing. Why don't they do something about that instead?
584
Boston bombers were refugees.
6
Perhaps Boston, Massachusetts rings a bell? Little Rock, Arkansas? Fort Hood? Garland, Texas? Chattanooga, Tennessee?
All locations of Muslim immigrants terrorist attacks.
That the media does not report it only shows their bias, not that the attacks are not occurring with frightening regularity.
It is not fair to assume that all Muslims are terrorists or terrorist sympathizers, but it is not irrational either.
All locations of Muslim immigrants terrorist attacks.
That the media does not report it only shows their bias, not that the attacks are not occurring with frightening regularity.
It is not fair to assume that all Muslims are terrorists or terrorist sympathizers, but it is not irrational either.
8
Wait, I'm confused.. I thought those were all locations of school shootings. Dang! I need to do my homework.
2
You comment that "this bill ignores most of what the U.S. has learned says 9/11 and before". There's no surprise in that - a large percentage of new legislation proposed in the House of Representatives ignores most of what has been learned - facts don't really matter to these folks. But, there are good politicians. I listened to an interview on the radio this morning with the governor of Washington. He is a good man. He seems, to me, to be a good American. He will not attempt to close his state. Please interview him and bring his intelligent and empathetic voice to this discussion. His logic, analysis of facts, perspectives on our history, and understanding of what America has always, and should continue to stand for should be shared with your readers.
10
Consider, it was likely an ancillary goal of ISIS to create distrust of migrants in the West, in order to prevent the civilian population of Syria from leaving their territory. After all, without a large civilian population to rule over, the so called "Islamic State" would be a hollow enterprise.
97
Also, kids in ISIS-controlled lands end up forced to go to schools where they basically brainwash them and train them how to be suicide bombers. Fewer kids in their schools, better for everyone but them.
8
more then a billion muslims in middle east and a certain percentage will always be radicalized, we are not in the business of nation building
I don't see what is wrong with the concept the Republicans are proposing. Improved vetting isn't all bad. Seems to makes sense but of course you see it as an opportunity to bash anyone who disagrees with the President. I remember when GWB was president you had article after article about the fact the US was not screening 100% of containers coming here. Since the 2008 election it apparently is no longer a problem. If a Republican was president you would be screaming for a "sensible" solution to the fact we can not really adequately screen these individuals.
76
Indeed, I remember the editorial from 2006:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/10/opinion/10fri1.html
In fact, it's rather enlightening to contrast what the NY Times says about our ports with its stance on border and immigration security. I found the following paragraph especially striking (just imagine the editorial board writing the same thing, but substituting "borders" for "ports"):
"Overall security is dismal at many ports. Low-paid rent-a-cops often guard the gates and perimeter fences. Thousands of truck drivers gain access to some ports simply by flashing driver's licenses. At one major port, journalists found gaps in the fences, unattended gates, an understaffed police force and inoperative alarms and surveillance cameras."
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/10/opinion/10fri1.html
In fact, it's rather enlightening to contrast what the NY Times says about our ports with its stance on border and immigration security. I found the following paragraph especially striking (just imagine the editorial board writing the same thing, but substituting "borders" for "ports"):
"Overall security is dismal at many ports. Low-paid rent-a-cops often guard the gates and perimeter fences. Thousands of truck drivers gain access to some ports simply by flashing driver's licenses. At one major port, journalists found gaps in the fences, unattended gates, an understaffed police force and inoperative alarms and surveillance cameras."
7
Fortunately, four year olds and 70 year olds don't typically carry nuclear weapons with them in the country (especially after our already incredibly intense screening). But shipping containers could be used to smuggle in a nuclear weapon. So they're not exactly equivalent.
13
The fact that truck drivers could get in by just flashing driver's licenses and that there were inoperative systems and gaps in the fence suggests a level of security that is far more lax than the vetting that is currently done for refugees which takes 18-24 months/applicant.
This is an apples-and-oranges comparison.
This is an apples-and-oranges comparison.
11
Okay, I am a trial lawyer, I work in Washington DC, I am paid to recognize cause and effect, but this one should be easy for anyone to see.
The NY Times Editorial Board is acting like the guy who's had 19 beers and 8 tequila shots who insists he's okay to drive home. On the interstate. In heavy traffic. With school children walking home in his neighborhood. That guy is totally convinced he's right. But everybody knows he's not.
America, when it comes to keeping our nation safe and exercising basic common sense on illegal immigration and open borders for terrorists, let's take the rhetorical and political keys away from the liberals on this one. You'll thank me for it someday.