One key aspect missing here is the code requirements for the visual pictographs, typography and braille. ADA code states the size and location of all the signage elements, many of these shown do not meet these requirements. Especially important is the wheelchair symbol. Personally, I think the focus should be on the facility, and less on who's allowed or not allowed in the space.
1
There is a big issue with this idea that “all-gender restrooms” are the answer for dealing with the “trans issue”, which seems to be the way that some state governments see this group of individuals as. This policy or “answer” they seem to conclude allows for a divide between trans people and cis gender people. In this article the author shows a lack of a holistic understanding of this pressing trans issue.
In the article the author writes, “With the issues of serving openly in the military and same-sex marriage now largely resolved, the fight for all-gender restrooms has emerged as the latest civil rights issue in the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (L.G.B.T.) community — particularly the “T” part.” This is not and LGBT issue, gay men and women are still able to attend the restrooms they feel comfortable in because they still see themselves as the gender they were born with. This is entirely a trans issue. Which doesn’t mean that the rest of the LGBT community isn’t fighting for also. Mainly because trans men and women are being pushed into the wrong restrooms that do not correlate with the gender they feel to be.
All-gender restrooms are not the answer because they are an excuse to put trans people in another room in order to accommodate cis-gender people and their comfort, but what about the comfort and safety of trans people.
In the article the author writes, “With the issues of serving openly in the military and same-sex marriage now largely resolved, the fight for all-gender restrooms has emerged as the latest civil rights issue in the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (L.G.B.T.) community — particularly the “T” part.” This is not and LGBT issue, gay men and women are still able to attend the restrooms they feel comfortable in because they still see themselves as the gender they were born with. This is entirely a trans issue. Which doesn’t mean that the rest of the LGBT community isn’t fighting for also. Mainly because trans men and women are being pushed into the wrong restrooms that do not correlate with the gender they feel to be.
All-gender restrooms are not the answer because they are an excuse to put trans people in another room in order to accommodate cis-gender people and their comfort, but what about the comfort and safety of trans people.
I don't want to share a public bathroom with men, period.
4
Nina, your period does not bother me.
3
I've read some of the comments of people with elderly parents or children who need assistance.
Don't you have (and I know someone will complain at the name) disabled toilets? This is a non gender room around 7x7 feet (2x2 metres) which can easily accommodate a wheelchair & helper.
The toilet has a higher seat & grab bars & the sink is lower, assuming the user is in a wheelchair.
This is not only standard in new buildings, but retrofitted into older ones.
As for unisex toilets for everyone else, one place in which women cannot be harassed or abused or preyed upon seems to be disappearing for the needs of a handful of people who are 'transgendering'.
We've had numerous cases here of men filming under toilet doors, & at least one rape & murder (of an 8 year old girl whose arms & legs were broken so she couldn't escape).
Don't you have (and I know someone will complain at the name) disabled toilets? This is a non gender room around 7x7 feet (2x2 metres) which can easily accommodate a wheelchair & helper.
The toilet has a higher seat & grab bars & the sink is lower, assuming the user is in a wheelchair.
This is not only standard in new buildings, but retrofitted into older ones.
As for unisex toilets for everyone else, one place in which women cannot be harassed or abused or preyed upon seems to be disappearing for the needs of a handful of people who are 'transgendering'.
We've had numerous cases here of men filming under toilet doors, & at least one rape & murder (of an 8 year old girl whose arms & legs were broken so she couldn't escape).
5
I'm not entirely sure of the point you're trying to make here- are there MORE potential murderer-rapist men being somehow kept out of the women's room by the almighty power of that little stylized person in a dress, or are those who are 'transgendering' disproportionately murderer-rapists, and by allowing us the freedom to perform basic bodily functions with a lessened fear of the (very real) threat of retaliation on the part of bold heroes like yourself you allow us freedom to maim and sexually assault eight year olds? If it's the latter, can you source your claims? This is striking me as a little alarmist.
1
@DebAltmanEhrlich - In the US, most disabled toliets are in the main ladies or men's bathroom. There is a separate stall that is much larger than the rest and has space for a wheelchair, grab bars, etc.
Some building have a separate bathroom, often called a 'family bathroom' that sounds like what you are describing (2m x 2m, room for a helper of some kind). I estimate less then 10% of US buildings have them, and often only new buildings, or building that have recently been renovated. And often, a large museum will have one family restroom (which could be 4 floors down on the other side of a huge building - not easy to get to quickly with a child who just said they need a toilet). Smaller buildings like restaurants rarely have family bathrooms (although sometimes if the building is really old, there is only one small bathroom for both genders - no stalls, just a single room - this works well for my family, but again is uncommon. And because these rooms tend to be super small, they often don't work for people with wheel chairs).
It really is a very common problem. A neighbor recently mentioned to be that her elderly parents almost never go out because her mother is developing dementia, and it is rare that her father can find a place where he is able to help her mother with the toiler if they are out.
Some building have a separate bathroom, often called a 'family bathroom' that sounds like what you are describing (2m x 2m, room for a helper of some kind). I estimate less then 10% of US buildings have them, and often only new buildings, or building that have recently been renovated. And often, a large museum will have one family restroom (which could be 4 floors down on the other side of a huge building - not easy to get to quickly with a child who just said they need a toilet). Smaller buildings like restaurants rarely have family bathrooms (although sometimes if the building is really old, there is only one small bathroom for both genders - no stalls, just a single room - this works well for my family, but again is uncommon. And because these rooms tend to be super small, they often don't work for people with wheel chairs).
It really is a very common problem. A neighbor recently mentioned to be that her elderly parents almost never go out because her mother is developing dementia, and it is rare that her father can find a place where he is able to help her mother with the toiler if they are out.
3
@DebAltmanEhrlich - I just want to clarify one more thing. I live in the northeast part of the US. Buildings here tend to be older, and space is at more of a premium. Family bathrooms are relatively rare (but again, appreciated by many different types/groups of people).
It is possible that in other parts of the country (like the south and west) where buildings tend to be a bit newer and space is less of an issue that family restrooms are more common.
It is possible that in other parts of the country (like the south and west) where buildings tend to be a bit newer and space is less of an issue that family restrooms are more common.
2
A fine restaurant here recently altered the signs on its two single-user restrooms from Men and Women to read Anybody and Everybody. Unfortunately, the result is that they are both now filthy, with urine splashed on the floor. I don't go there anymore for that reason.
8
The article doesn't seem to provide much clarity about multi-user vs. single-user bathrooms. Which types are these various museums and restaurants using and/or which types are the various city/state laws requiring? I agree with the commenter below that there needs to be a mention of Europe. If memory serves, some bathrooms in Europe are multi-user/multi-stall, with a shared sink area. An important distinction is that in Europe, the stall partitions typically go all the way from floor to ceiling, as opposed to the U.S., where the partitions don't. We need to adopt this model.
7
Once upon a time the only fear we had about using a public rest room was whether it was clean or not. Gas stations like Texaco may have put out a welcome sign for the use of their bathrooms, but thanks to some Transphobic Texans who successfully waged an aggressive fear mongering campaign, for the transgender community in Texas there is anything but a welcome. When it comes to LGBT rights there is no rest until the discrimination stops. http://envisioningtheamericandream.com/2015/11/04/there-are-no-heros-in-...
women need a comfortable private space to deal with their periods and putting on make up, etc in a room not scented with the spray of male urine and their hit and run style of bathroom use, or to see them zipping up as they leave the room if they have even bothered to close the door in the first place.
occasional use when n a hurry of one another's bathroom is not a big deal, or if u r trans, queer, gay, or bi, use what u choose, but don't deny those of us who enjoy the privacy and special ambience of separate sex bathrooms our comfort as well.
whats next?
occasional use when n a hurry of one another's bathroom is not a big deal, or if u r trans, queer, gay, or bi, use what u choose, but don't deny those of us who enjoy the privacy and special ambience of separate sex bathrooms our comfort as well.
whats next?
13
As a male caregiver for my recently deceased mom I ran into a conundrum. Often I took her out in her transfer chair, a more portable version of a wheelchair. It can't be operated by the person in it and my mom couldn't navigate an ordinary wheelchair anyway due to her advancing dementia. When in public places with only men's or women's restrooms (often when my mom was in urgent need), I would have to make a calculated decision about which one to use. So called "family restrooms" like those often found in airports are a dignified alternative for people in this situation, as would the all-gender restrooms discussed in the article.
9
My son is 6. I often take him into public ladies restrooms with me. He's still young enough that no one seems to mind.
My son is also autistic and intellectually disabled (low IQ). He passes as 'normal' for a moment or two if he is quiet, but his abilities are very limited.
I'm worried about what will happen as he gets older. Will people start to complain if I bring him into a ladies room when he is 8? 10? 12? If he is quiet and 'passing' for a moment, will he or I be yelled at? Will someone call security?
At 8/10/12, he may still need help washing his hands and fastening buttons (90% of the time he wears clothing he can do by himself, but finding clothing without fasteners gets harder every time he grows taller).
And at least my child is mobile. I know a number of people with children with extremely limited mobility. They need help getting from their wheelchairs to a toilet, even in handicap equipped bathrooms. Do those kids always have to go out with a caregiver of the same gender just so they can use the toilet? I know people who don't go out much because toileting is difficult in public places. It is heartbreaking.
For me, all gender restrooms are beneficial not only because they recognize that gender is not a simple binary notion, but also because they make life easier for lots of people who are not 'perfect'.
Our lives are so hard in so many ways. A little help in making peeing easier would make our days so much better.
My son is also autistic and intellectually disabled (low IQ). He passes as 'normal' for a moment or two if he is quiet, but his abilities are very limited.
I'm worried about what will happen as he gets older. Will people start to complain if I bring him into a ladies room when he is 8? 10? 12? If he is quiet and 'passing' for a moment, will he or I be yelled at? Will someone call security?
At 8/10/12, he may still need help washing his hands and fastening buttons (90% of the time he wears clothing he can do by himself, but finding clothing without fasteners gets harder every time he grows taller).
And at least my child is mobile. I know a number of people with children with extremely limited mobility. They need help getting from their wheelchairs to a toilet, even in handicap equipped bathrooms. Do those kids always have to go out with a caregiver of the same gender just so they can use the toilet? I know people who don't go out much because toileting is difficult in public places. It is heartbreaking.
For me, all gender restrooms are beneficial not only because they recognize that gender is not a simple binary notion, but also because they make life easier for lots of people who are not 'perfect'.
Our lives are so hard in so many ways. A little help in making peeing easier would make our days so much better.
6
Why is the US the only English-speaking country with "restrooms"? Everywhere else they are "toilets". We don't use them for rest, nor for bathing. Perhaps if we didn't consider everything we do with our "private parts" to be dirty, both literally and figuratively, there would be less strife concerning gender spectrum concepts.
Language and usage are powerful indicators of cultural attitudes: our use of euphemisms for toilets makes it clear we have made the natural and ordinary into something shameful. We need to get past that problem first, then no one will care much about the specific genitalia used to accomplish the task.
Language and usage are powerful indicators of cultural attitudes: our use of euphemisms for toilets makes it clear we have made the natural and ordinary into something shameful. We need to get past that problem first, then no one will care much about the specific genitalia used to accomplish the task.
3
you're right about "restrooms!" some people come to my house and ask for the restroom. I don't have one, as my house isn't a gas station, but I do have a bathroom they might want to use.
Because there is more to do within a bathroom or restroom than to use the toilet. As a woman, I will go into a bathroom or restroom to touch-up makeup or my hair.
And under no circumstance will I ever, ever, ever use a public bathroom with males
And under no circumstance will I ever, ever, ever use a public bathroom with males
2
"When they realize that it’s just like it is at home, it’s not a big deal.”
This is exactly the point. At home, bathrooms are not marked "men, "women," or "all genders." Why can't it be the same in public places? Why do people get so offended when it is done (or tried to be done) this way?
Also, I have never seen a urinal in a home bathroom (I have, however, seen a few bidets, but that belongs in a different story) so why are urinals necessary in men's public bathrooms?
This is exactly the point. At home, bathrooms are not marked "men, "women," or "all genders." Why can't it be the same in public places? Why do people get so offended when it is done (or tried to be done) this way?
Also, I have never seen a urinal in a home bathroom (I have, however, seen a few bidets, but that belongs in a different story) so why are urinals necessary in men's public bathrooms?
1
For speed, I imagine. There can be 10 urinals and 4 stalls; no wonder the lines for the men's rooms move so quickly!
2
Your home does not have a public bathroom. It's used by people you know and trust -- or at least you know not to trust them and can be more careful.
2
Every article I read on this subject describes how progressive and "inclusive" these institutions are but I never have seen any statistics at all as to how many people are "gender fluid" or transgender or opposed in any way to the generally accepted, biological definition of gender. In the name of inclusion and good will and the desire to be non-offensive, are we, in fact, going a little overboard? Most people identify as either male or female, since time began. Why is now the time to question this? I don't really care if a bathroom is a onesie but I'm not going to use a bathroom where I'm next to a guy (the traditional definition of a male). Yes, some rules are meant to be broken but not all of them. How much money is being spent on what could be an extremely small portion of population? And how much further is society prepared to go? What if someone identifies as being another animal, or an inanimate object? The possibilities are endless.
13
See V's and AndyK's comments above re caregivers of a different gender than their charges.
You might also note that we, as a society, will be judged by how we treat the "least" of us. If we dismiss/ignore the needs of a relatively small portion of our community because it has a monetary cost associated with it, we don't deserve to be judged favorably. Using that logic, consider that combat veterans are a relatively small portion of our population. Would you be okay with abolishing the facilities and services provided for that group? It's all really expensive.
You might also note that we, as a society, will be judged by how we treat the "least" of us. If we dismiss/ignore the needs of a relatively small portion of our community because it has a monetary cost associated with it, we don't deserve to be judged favorably. Using that logic, consider that combat veterans are a relatively small portion of our population. Would you be okay with abolishing the facilities and services provided for that group? It's all really expensive.
1
As an architect, I find this article interesting. Plumbing/ building codes require separate sex toilet facilities for most public spaces. It was considered a major break-through when codes required that women needed more WCs than men, such at theaters. Even when it makes no difference- such as single-use toilets in office spaces, as noted in the article- we had to provide two separate toilets with the accepted signage. Local ordinances which conflict with the plumbing codes which conflict with the building codes- what fun lies ahead.
7
If we are going to be inclusive, let us remember braille which is only apparent in the Whitney Museum signage; of course that would include individuals who are both LBGT and blind. In actuality, braille signage is a requirement in most public areas under the federal American's with Disabilities Act (A.D.A.) but at present signage sensitive to transgender individuals is not required by federal law.
2
Good grief, life these days is as weird as Eraserhead.
Not sure all women want to access a room full of urinals in use but, otherwise, who cares. If the bathroom is a one-person room, it doesn't matter at all.
Just don't leave the seat up, guys.
Not sure all women want to access a room full of urinals in use but, otherwise, who cares. If the bathroom is a one-person room, it doesn't matter at all.
Just don't leave the seat up, guys.
5
Gender neutral toilets for use by one person at a time, fine. Gender neutral multiple-person ones? Probably not a good idea unless equiped with an attendant to keep an eye on any situations that would make women uncomfortable.
20
The progressive doesn't care about natural born women, just the men who think they are. Truly, the feelings of women are never considered.
12
Or make men feel uncomfortable... Not that either should feel uncomfortable - that would truly be progressive.
1
More than 35 years ago, when my firm moved into a small floor near the top of 655 Madison Avenue, we needed to be creative to squeeze all our people into the modest footprint of the floor. As for accommodating bathrooms, there was space only for a pair of one-person toilet rooms. In our conventional thinking for that era, we put up elegantly-lettered signs on the two doors reading Men and Woman. Very quickly, someone pointed out the absurdity of the distinction, so we put up two new signs, each reading WHOSOEVER. I have always been an advocate of signage that is as direct as possible, so why not use that one-word designation (perhaps coupled with a stylized drawing of a toilet) instead of the agonizingly circumlocutious and verbose signs illustrated here.
How about a sign that just says RESTROOM or is that just too apolitical for everyone's taste?
10
"Children don’t know gender norms until we as adults teach them." There may be some truth in that, but there is also a lot of evidence that there are certain innate gender differences, taught or not. Nevertheless, one can also argue that the increase in all of this "questioning" and fungible identities is not due to the children but to adults who are saying, in essence, well, we don't know and can't say, so just keep guessing as to your "identity" lest we somehow damage you. Uncertainty about self is a pretty common fact of puberty and rather than helping kids we seem to make them even more confused. Then, in jump the activists to really mess things up, and we are told we must accommodate what may be a transitory sense or mere exploration, often with legal mandates to do so.
8
Allow me to share an anecdote- back in school, my younger sister had an acquaintance who was born a boy but believed herself to be a girl. Her parents were quick to reinforce the notion that she was really a boy, that it was all a phase, etc. One day, she smuggled a kitchen knife in to school, went into the bathroom, and tried to cut her penis off. I don't think that things would've gotten to the point of genital mutilation had her parents been a little more open to the possibility of her identifying differently. This is just an anecdote, mind, and maybe you're right about us being overly accommodating of exploration- but I know plenty more people with stories in the same vein, and would rather be safe than sorry. What's the harm in letting a kid explore themselves in a supportive environment?
"...widely loathed by those who identify as gender nonconforming..." Talk about first world problems. It never ceases to amaze me how in our society so many people seem to be on a never ending hunt for things to be offended or irate about. Coupled with the weakness of businesses and institutions who immediately feel the need to bow down to any small number of complaints while ignoring the vast majority of society. You can't not offend someone, somewhere these days, and all of the endless contortions to please everyone - an impossible task - is ridiculous. It's a bathroom sign meant to convey in the quickest, simplest form the use of the room, not a political statement. Take your loathing and outrage elsewhere and use it for something more constructive.
21
I have no problem with sharing a restroom with transgender individuals. I have a major problem sharing a public restroom with people (usually men) who don't put the seat down or who drip or splatter the floor. Worse, according to my husband, some men don't bother to put the seat up and splatter the whole seat. (OK, sometimes women create this effect too). Locations with all gender restrooms should install fixtures with those movable paper liners on the seat rims, or hire attendants to clean them after each use. Some of us have to sit and want a clean seat to do it on.
18
Gender neutral bathrooms have been an option in Europe for years and years! Only in America would we make a big deal over something like this. Honestly, aren't there bigger issues in the world with which to deal?
13
In Europe, the walls and doors on bathroom stalls go all the way to the floor. They are more private and quieter than those in public spaces in the US. Also, the doors close completely, due to a different and better locking mechanism (a turn-lock, rather than a sliding lock). If we had those here, a lot of the fuss about sharing space would disappear.
7
This article nicely brings forward the conversation about gender diversity.
But the headline "The Symbols of Change" on Aimee Lee Ball's article is not fulfilled by the graphic images shown.
Omitted is the simple black and white image created and given away by Mr. Killermann, which seemed to be the best solution discussed in the article.
But the headline "The Symbols of Change" on Aimee Lee Ball's article is not fulfilled by the graphic images shown.
Omitted is the simple black and white image created and given away by Mr. Killermann, which seemed to be the best solution discussed in the article.
2
I once went to a restaurant where the rest rooms had 2 signs: "People" & "Humans". That should cover everyone.
5
I'm all for accommodating people, but as a woman, it is important for me to have access to an all-female bathroom. It is fine if this includes trans women, but women need a space that is separate from the men's bathroom and isn't for everyone. Women from a young age view the female restroom as a kind of refuge and safe space. Perhaps the best scenario is a female bathroom and male bathroom with a flexible interpretation of who fits these categories, or perhaps three bathrooms in buildings that are able to accommodate a gender neutral bathroom as well.
29
A trans woman is often still a man, biologically.
1
Your point about young women is a good one - adolescents (and adults) sometimes need a private space in which to handle menstrual care, for example, or to change clothes if going from one event to another. I remember the TV show My So-Called Life regularly had Angela Chase's guy friend hanging out in the girls' bathroom with her. I always assumed he felt safer in the girls' bathroom.
Why not just put a mirror on the door?
6
Dan Simons says that men are pigs in restrooms and women are nice and polite? Seriously ....
5
I'm all for this, unless the prudes win out and try to eliminate urinals. Time for everyone to grow up!
5
Restrooms should be clearly designated for either those who pee sitting down or those who pee standing up. That's what really matters.
13
Why can't bathroom signs just say "bathroom" with an icon of a toilet? Why do we even need to mention gender?
7
Try as I might, down here in Florida, looking for that homoerotic feel and touch and smell of men's rooms from the 1970's era, my search reveals great disappointment in finding restrooms sterile, no graffiti, no "glory holes," no signage. Overlooking this scene is sad, a sense of the allure of the restroom is GONE!
3
If I am in a little booth, and I exit, fully clothed, wash my hands, and leave, I don't care whether I am sharing the rest room with people of any and all genders. And gender-free rest rooms will certainly shorten the waiting time for women at the theater.
On the other hand, I had the privilege of using the unisex bathrooms at an avant-garde college in the early 70s (while visiting a friend), before other colleges had attained this degree of enlightenment. I used the toilet; I got dressed. I took a bath; I got dressed. I went to the sink to brush my teeth. In the single-sex bathrooms I had known in college, I could just walk naked from toilet to bathtub to sink, and get dressed when I had dried off. Unless colleges are also enlightened enough to accept gender-free nudity, unisex bathrooms are only symbolic but actually a great inconvenience.
On the other hand, I had the privilege of using the unisex bathrooms at an avant-garde college in the early 70s (while visiting a friend), before other colleges had attained this degree of enlightenment. I used the toilet; I got dressed. I took a bath; I got dressed. I went to the sink to brush my teeth. In the single-sex bathrooms I had known in college, I could just walk naked from toilet to bathtub to sink, and get dressed when I had dried off. Unless colleges are also enlightened enough to accept gender-free nudity, unisex bathrooms are only symbolic but actually a great inconvenience.
11
Why is there no space afforded to concerns about safety for cis identified people?
4
Agree, except with the "cis" part.
1
Because, generally, the safety concerns of cis people regarding public toilets are predicated on the assumption that differently gendered individuals are somehow dangerous, which is a bigoted and baseless assumption conjured by uninformed hypotheticals about sexual predators who might decide "today I feel like a woman" blah blah.
How about a restroom sign that reads:
RESTROOM
FOR ALL
No One Excluded
RESTROOM
FOR ALL
No One Excluded
1
When -- as often happens -- there's a line outside the "women" bathroom and no one in the "men," I use the latter, just ignoring the urinals and heading for a stall.
9