I am not anti-migrant European leaders will have to be more responsible in the near future and start looking after the rights of European citizens and the Union State taxpayers does not make sense that our identity and culture may be lost in the future
3
Today a representative for our government said that Sweden got to the limit of how many refugees we can handle. Between 1500-2000 a day comes into Sweden over 8000 last week and the prognosis is about 190000+ at the end of the year will be seeking asylum in Sweden. Many of thoose comes from Germany and Denmark which just let them pass their country and go on in to Sweden. Despite the rule that refugees should seek asylum in the first country when they enter the EU. Our government which just for about a month ago said there where no problem to handle the increasing numbers of asylumseekers. Today it has been a rude awekening for those blindfolded politicians. No sugestions where made how to lower the figures of asylumseekers who comes to Sweden. Our neighbour countries Finland ,Denmark and Norway takes just a tiny fraction of those which comes to our Northern countries. In media this is called a refugee crisis I would call it a mass migration not only because of what we usally think of are reasons for asylum. Many of the migrants are seeking a better life in something they wrongly belive is paradise. That is not a reson for asylum. Many of the other countries in the EU won´t even take one. I read that the USA has taken a little more than a thousand Syrians since the Syrian war begun. I have no answers to all this but we must someway stop the war in Syria and get an end to the fighting in Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, Eritrea, Libya and many other countries.
So people stay home.
So people stay home.
8
It's partly true that for many fleeing wars and conflicts "a wintry sea seems a safer bet than life at home." But psychology comes into play as well. Most of the migrants follow the herd, and those who lead the herd - especially human traffickers - exploit our compassion and our humanitarian values. They think it would arouse more sympathy if these people arrive by crossing stormy seas in freezing temperatures. They don't warn about the risks, they just encourage the migrants to come to Europe to boost revenues. Unfortunately many Europeans have become numb to these tragedies.
4
Being an HSE professional, I have been inquisitive to view the type of floating device worn by the refugees in the pictures produced by media especially on NYT. Most of them have been found wearing "Life vest "on Zodiac is a sign of their eagerness to live in this world. War on faith over religion threw them over board but the ray of hope to lead a secured life, made them onboard vessels to reach the shore of Europe.
In Stockholm, the theatre runs the film show on the war between Sweden and Russia is popular among tourists. Probably, the film on war in middle east, sea travel, the vessels reached the shore of Europe , the gate crash and emotional turmoil of the refugees would make a big coverage in the HISTORY and DISCOVERY channel and create many historically important tourist locations in Europe.
In Stockholm, the theatre runs the film show on the war between Sweden and Russia is popular among tourists. Probably, the film on war in middle east, sea travel, the vessels reached the shore of Europe , the gate crash and emotional turmoil of the refugees would make a big coverage in the HISTORY and DISCOVERY channel and create many historically important tourist locations in Europe.
1
It's shocking to read so many comments attacking the Times for their coverage on the migrant crisis
in Europe. I hope they keep showing the photographs and telling the stories. There but for the grace of God go you or I. Here in America we are so insulated from the bombs we are dropping in faraway places. We grumble and complain about our government and the morning traffic jams. It's scary to read the complete lack of empathy for another human being's misery expressed in some of these comments. Mark Twain said something to the effect of walking a mile in another person's shoes before you judge them. How hard can it be to do that. Leaving your life behind with just the shirt on your back. Risking your life and that of your children's with no guarantees of any safety or security. Spending what ever you have left on putting yourself and your loved ones at the hands of pirates and thieves pedaling dangerous crossings in old leaking vessels. and what about the Greek people who are struggling with their own serious problems but showing tremendous humanity meeting these poor souls at the shore and offering assistance. Didn't America do that too just a few generations ago?
in Europe. I hope they keep showing the photographs and telling the stories. There but for the grace of God go you or I. Here in America we are so insulated from the bombs we are dropping in faraway places. We grumble and complain about our government and the morning traffic jams. It's scary to read the complete lack of empathy for another human being's misery expressed in some of these comments. Mark Twain said something to the effect of walking a mile in another person's shoes before you judge them. How hard can it be to do that. Leaving your life behind with just the shirt on your back. Risking your life and that of your children's with no guarantees of any safety or security. Spending what ever you have left on putting yourself and your loved ones at the hands of pirates and thieves pedaling dangerous crossings in old leaking vessels. and what about the Greek people who are struggling with their own serious problems but showing tremendous humanity meeting these poor souls at the shore and offering assistance. Didn't America do that too just a few generations ago?
3
@rames, ny
Many people who are commenting here, like myself, have first-hand knowledge of the effect these mass migrations are having in Europe.
This offers a different vantage point from those viewing the situation from over 3,000 miles away.
Within the last few months, I have seen the opinions of my friends and family in Germany turn from elation about helping these refugees, to concern about the numbers that are continuing to come, and the increasingly violent and frequent outbreaks taking place amongst them. And then there is the long-term financial cost at the expense of the normal taxpayer.
Perhaps it is best to understand that this story has many sides to it. And we are only seeing a small part of it.
Many people who are commenting here, like myself, have first-hand knowledge of the effect these mass migrations are having in Europe.
This offers a different vantage point from those viewing the situation from over 3,000 miles away.
Within the last few months, I have seen the opinions of my friends and family in Germany turn from elation about helping these refugees, to concern about the numbers that are continuing to come, and the increasingly violent and frequent outbreaks taking place amongst them. And then there is the long-term financial cost at the expense of the normal taxpayer.
Perhaps it is best to understand that this story has many sides to it. And we are only seeing a small part of it.
8
There is another storm brewing in the encroaching winter months. The countries that migrants/refugees have preference on being given asylum in, Germany and Sweden, are negotiating to remove many approved asylum seekers to the other 20+ countries in the EU. We have seen articles on migrants/refugees who have protested being sent to rural areas in Germany and Sweden, and when many find out that those placements aren't an option for them any longer it will lead to major unrest. Not only from frustrated and disillusioned migrants/refugees, but also from EU populaces that aren't inclined towards welcoming asylum seekers from the Middle East and Africa. The large exodus from Turkey is only the tip of the iceberg, when strong enough social winds blow, what lies beneath will erupt to the surface.
7
" ... A Wintry Sea Seems a Safer Bet Than Life at Home for Refugees ..."
Please stop it, these are not refugees but illegal migrants.
They ended being refugees when they left Syria or Iraq and found safety in neighbouring countries.
Going to Europe is purely in search of better life and a working social security system paid for by infidels.
Not in search of safety.
Safety is what they had in Lebanon or Turkey.
The reason why numbers are growing is simple and can be verified any time in all those place these people came from, it's fear that others, who migrated earlier, might get their house, car and easy lives, as the story still goes in Syria, in Europe while those who waited longer might miss out on this opportunity.
Yes, face it, these people still believe, in quite a few times even demand when arriving in Germany, that they get a house and a car and all the money they want from the German government.
That they, in fact, have a right to these things.
What powers these people is quite often greed, pure and simple.
And as some stories make it to Syria, which tell them that Germany is not the promised land, they believe that these stories, based on real life on Germany, are only told by those who do not want their fellow migrants to come to Germany and get what is believed "rightfully theirs to demand"
Forget about the tearful stories of hardships under war conditions, these people want a better life than they have had for a long time in safe countries.
Please stop it, these are not refugees but illegal migrants.
They ended being refugees when they left Syria or Iraq and found safety in neighbouring countries.
Going to Europe is purely in search of better life and a working social security system paid for by infidels.
Not in search of safety.
Safety is what they had in Lebanon or Turkey.
The reason why numbers are growing is simple and can be verified any time in all those place these people came from, it's fear that others, who migrated earlier, might get their house, car and easy lives, as the story still goes in Syria, in Europe while those who waited longer might miss out on this opportunity.
Yes, face it, these people still believe, in quite a few times even demand when arriving in Germany, that they get a house and a car and all the money they want from the German government.
That they, in fact, have a right to these things.
What powers these people is quite often greed, pure and simple.
And as some stories make it to Syria, which tell them that Germany is not the promised land, they believe that these stories, based on real life on Germany, are only told by those who do not want their fellow migrants to come to Germany and get what is believed "rightfully theirs to demand"
Forget about the tearful stories of hardships under war conditions, these people want a better life than they have had for a long time in safe countries.
7
Insanity that these so called refugees can enter the EU with zero vetting.......
4
Why not just stay in Turkey, a nice Moslem country? Why leech off Europe?
5
It drives me crazy that the only pictures every news source shows of these migrants are of frightened children and old people. The fact is, the majority of these economic migrants are young working age men who are expecting welfare benefits, free housing, and good jobs. What happens when these are not forthcoming. As we are already beginning to see, rioting and demands for more free help.
7
In the depth of our roots, we are the children of Immigrants or Refugees.
It is a pity that we are not able to accommodate our fellow human beings on the basis of imaginary lines called "boundaries" and imaginary state called "country".
The Almighty has granted us equal rights to reside at any part of the world. I too agree that hard work of one section of people, and fruits of such labor, cannot be shared with people who have come, all of a sudden, from poor parts of the world. But this is a humanitarian crisis and therefore, EU should look at this issue in that way. I do not for a moment endorse human trafficking. EU should take effective steps in identifying smugglers and punishing them. But innocent people cannot be left to rot.
By the way, who is responsible for the present chaos in Middle East. Libyans were safe under Md. Gadhafi, though he was described a tyrant. If the U.S./Israel and allies have not intervened in places like Iraq and Libya, ISIS would not have come into existence. The present humanitarian crisis across Middle East would not have also cropped
It is a pity that we are not able to accommodate our fellow human beings on the basis of imaginary lines called "boundaries" and imaginary state called "country".
The Almighty has granted us equal rights to reside at any part of the world. I too agree that hard work of one section of people, and fruits of such labor, cannot be shared with people who have come, all of a sudden, from poor parts of the world. But this is a humanitarian crisis and therefore, EU should look at this issue in that way. I do not for a moment endorse human trafficking. EU should take effective steps in identifying smugglers and punishing them. But innocent people cannot be left to rot.
By the way, who is responsible for the present chaos in Middle East. Libyans were safe under Md. Gadhafi, though he was described a tyrant. If the U.S./Israel and allies have not intervened in places like Iraq and Libya, ISIS would not have come into existence. The present humanitarian crisis across Middle East would not have also cropped
4
The EU must make more of an effort to stop this influx. I can't help believing that Turkey is the root cause of this massive influx. Many come from refugee camps in Turkey so there was no reason for them to leave.
Europe is overwhelmed and unable to handle this large a number. It is up to the EU to find a way to start stopping the migrants. Only when people realize that Europe is closed will they stop risking their life in boats.
The EU has yet to sort out those eligible for refugee status and those who must be deported. Until they start deportations in a serous manner these people will come.
As we know this is all the fault of Angela Merkel and The Germans, there fore they must reimburse other countries for these swarms of people. Since the idea is that people will return to their home country once the fighting ends, I wonder how difficult it will be to force the people to return? For return they musts - the concept of refugee always involves the return to the country from which they came.
Europe is overwhelmed and unable to handle this large a number. It is up to the EU to find a way to start stopping the migrants. Only when people realize that Europe is closed will they stop risking their life in boats.
The EU has yet to sort out those eligible for refugee status and those who must be deported. Until they start deportations in a serous manner these people will come.
As we know this is all the fault of Angela Merkel and The Germans, there fore they must reimburse other countries for these swarms of people. Since the idea is that people will return to their home country once the fighting ends, I wonder how difficult it will be to force the people to return? For return they musts - the concept of refugee always involves the return to the country from which they came.
8
As I look at the comments to this and other articles on this topic, I see that the vast majority of readers have caught on to the fact that the Times is not engaging in neutral "journalism" about the Muslim migrant invasion. On the contrary, every single article and every single op-ed attempts to argue that citizens of any nation with any success has a moral obligation to allow unlimited numbers of economic Muslim migrants to simply take over their nation. The Times also argues that citizens of unsuccessful Muslim nations have no obligation to improve their nations, but rather have an inherent right to just mooch off more successful nations. Did the Times' stockholder demographics shift heavily to stockholders from the wealthy Gulf states?
Surely the Times reads the comments to its 100% slanted coverage of the migrant issue. The huge majority of comments and "recommends" are scornful of the Times' position; and now readers are starting to get angry about the Times' relentless propaganda. Its upsetting to see what used to be a reliable news source turn into a modern day version of the old Soviet Pravda.
I will, however, keep my Times subscription because it remains a credible news source on other topics without a not so hidden agenda. It would be interesting to know, however, if other readers who are very vocally sick of the Times' migrant coverage feel the same way, and how subscription numbers change in the next two months. Will the Times report those stats?
Surely the Times reads the comments to its 100% slanted coverage of the migrant issue. The huge majority of comments and "recommends" are scornful of the Times' position; and now readers are starting to get angry about the Times' relentless propaganda. Its upsetting to see what used to be a reliable news source turn into a modern day version of the old Soviet Pravda.
I will, however, keep my Times subscription because it remains a credible news source on other topics without a not so hidden agenda. It would be interesting to know, however, if other readers who are very vocally sick of the Times' migrant coverage feel the same way, and how subscription numbers change in the next two months. Will the Times report those stats?
8
Here is the elemental truth of this situation: as long as Europe allows as many migrants and refugees who manage to make it to their shores to stay, many more will come.
Today, they are mostly from Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan. Tomorrow, they'll be from whatever nation or region next becomes unlivable enough to induce people to risk the trip. There are literally billions of people in such places.
The only questions nations not for now, teetering on the brink of chaos and sustainability have to answer are: 1-when they will say "no more," and 2- whether they will do so in time to avoid suffering the same problems their new residents fled.
Today, they are mostly from Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan. Tomorrow, they'll be from whatever nation or region next becomes unlivable enough to induce people to risk the trip. There are literally billions of people in such places.
The only questions nations not for now, teetering on the brink of chaos and sustainability have to answer are: 1-when they will say "no more," and 2- whether they will do so in time to avoid suffering the same problems their new residents fled.
17
IMMIGRANTS?
These people are refugees of wars and not economic migrants. They are the collateral damages from the US, NATO and israel policies of regime changes in Libya and Syria and elsewhere in the ME. The US and NATO, it must be said and remembered, are too quick to resort to military solutions but are not too quick to respond to the chaos and factional strife resulting from the dissolution of central governments in these countries.
These people are refugees of wars and not economic migrants. They are the collateral damages from the US, NATO and israel policies of regime changes in Libya and Syria and elsewhere in the ME. The US and NATO, it must be said and remembered, are too quick to resort to military solutions but are not too quick to respond to the chaos and factional strife resulting from the dissolution of central governments in these countries.
2
@Tony Silver, Kopenhagen
Yes. Sorry to disappoint. But SOME of these people are economic migrants. And that is why they prefer to go to certain countries (Germany, Sweden, UK), where the benefits are more generous than others.
Have you ever wondered why so many have left Turkey in the first place? -- a place where they were safe; or why they don't want to stay in the countries where they land (Italy, Greece)?
One more thing. Israel, NATO and the U.S. aren't the only players to create this chaos in the ME. There were a few glaring omissions left off your list.
Yes. Sorry to disappoint. But SOME of these people are economic migrants. And that is why they prefer to go to certain countries (Germany, Sweden, UK), where the benefits are more generous than others.
Have you ever wondered why so many have left Turkey in the first place? -- a place where they were safe; or why they don't want to stay in the countries where they land (Italy, Greece)?
One more thing. Israel, NATO and the U.S. aren't the only players to create this chaos in the ME. There were a few glaring omissions left off your list.
6
Note that many of these migrants are coming out of TURKEY where they were safe and free from harm. It's already been determined (by the UN among others), that the majority are NOT from war-torn Syria. And if they ARE, once they've reached a safe haven, they are NO LONGER refugees. A case in point; the migrants in Calais who -- rather than seeking asylum in France -- are risking truckers and travellers' lives trying to get to the UK. Why? Because that's where they'll get the biggest HANDOUTS in the form of benefits (free housing and money for themselves and for every child they have, even if those children are NOT IN THE UK). Thus, they are economic migrants -- not refugees. Their choice to put their lives at risk -- and their families lives. (Mind you, 95% + are young, fit males; why they're not fighting to protect their families and country left behind is another big question...).
19
I'm an American living in Germany. While the situation on the ground doesn't seem as chaotic as the media portrays, people are definitely frustrated on all sides. It's sad because I honestly believe most people understand why waves of people would want to flee their homelands (which are being ravaged by war, oppression and a lack of opportunity). However, I also understand the fear of western Europe being overrun by people aren't accustomed to more progressive ideals.
I do feel sorry for those people who make the trek with the highest of expectations. I'm an intelligent guy making great money and even I've had a difficult time assimilating to Germany...I can only imagine what people from the Middle East an Africa are experiencing. Also, unlike in America, there's nothing these new arrivals will be able to say or do to be considered German. People of Turkish descent who have lived here for generations are still considered Turks, not Germans.
I do feel sorry for those people who make the trek with the highest of expectations. I'm an intelligent guy making great money and even I've had a difficult time assimilating to Germany...I can only imagine what people from the Middle East an Africa are experiencing. Also, unlike in America, there's nothing these new arrivals will be able to say or do to be considered German. People of Turkish descent who have lived here for generations are still considered Turks, not Germans.
13
Perhaps they could try to assimiliate, drop the moslem garb, speak german, act like they live in 2015 and not the dark ages?
7
@pooteeweet
Even people coming from the former East Germany sometimes aren't considered German...and it's been 25 years since reunification!
Even people coming from the former East Germany sometimes aren't considered German...and it's been 25 years since reunification!
2
Actually, I am in a little shock because of the fellow NYT readers comments. Apparently I wasn't aware of the against-immigrant views popularity.
I understand these views. But I think they fail to see whole picture: These people don't have any other chance, and European countries such as Germany too. Rejecting them will be against all European values and project in the eyes of people. And the other thing is, in the current instability in Middle East, especially Syria, United States and it's European allies played a big role. Either by supporting opposition groups that gone extreme after a time, redesigning Middle East power without minding proper power balance in ethnic, religious groups, such in Iraq. Syrian civil war is not actually civil since a long time. It's clashing ground for the international politics and the ordinary people are suffering because of this. Gulf countries and United States? They have the major responsibility. But they take little of that responsibility. Europeans are taking the biggest share of that, voluntarily or not.
I understand these views. But I think they fail to see whole picture: These people don't have any other chance, and European countries such as Germany too. Rejecting them will be against all European values and project in the eyes of people. And the other thing is, in the current instability in Middle East, especially Syria, United States and it's European allies played a big role. Either by supporting opposition groups that gone extreme after a time, redesigning Middle East power without minding proper power balance in ethnic, religious groups, such in Iraq. Syrian civil war is not actually civil since a long time. It's clashing ground for the international politics and the ordinary people are suffering because of this. Gulf countries and United States? They have the major responsibility. But they take little of that responsibility. Europeans are taking the biggest share of that, voluntarily or not.
2
@Ege, Turkey
Interesting evaluation. But no mention of the responsibility in the Syrian conflict to be borne by both Iran and Russia; and no reference to the fact that human- traffickers and other officials are making huge profits from these mass migrations, all too often at the cost of human lives.
Interesting evaluation. But no mention of the responsibility in the Syrian conflict to be borne by both Iran and Russia; and no reference to the fact that human- traffickers and other officials are making huge profits from these mass migrations, all too often at the cost of human lives.
3
World Leaders are aware about who is responsible for these migrations/ home & food less families. UN is in function. Super power(s) has authorities to interfere and is interfering.
Then what about settlement?
I am & we are thanks full to all those who are supporting to these homeless families.
They will soon rewarded by 'God Almighty on serving humanity.
Because "Life's most persistent and urgent question is: what are we doing for others?
Then what about settlement?
I am & we are thanks full to all those who are supporting to these homeless families.
They will soon rewarded by 'God Almighty on serving humanity.
Because "Life's most persistent and urgent question is: what are we doing for others?
2
What? Bringing sharia law to EU is a good thing?
4
If this were 1941, the headline would be "Many Obstacles Are Seen to U.S,Canada and Australia, Taking in Large Number of Jewish Refugees". We should all be ashamed - this country is special and should exercise more compassion. Our leaders have destabilized the Middle East (due to incompetence, not bad intentions) but now this is all Europe's problem ?
We are all immigrants or descendants of immigrants. At the very least we should use our still considerable influence to get our ME "allies" to accept refugees if the public at large is too busy with the beginning of football season to remember what this country is about. But I am confident that if the media did a better job of explaining the magnitude of this crisis, the American people would rise to the occasion.
We are all immigrants or descendants of immigrants. At the very least we should use our still considerable influence to get our ME "allies" to accept refugees if the public at large is too busy with the beginning of football season to remember what this country is about. But I am confident that if the media did a better job of explaining the magnitude of this crisis, the American people would rise to the occasion.
1
"Nobody puts their child in a boat, unless the water is safer than the land."
I have a friend who has just returned from volunteering in Molyvos, and witnessed the disaster last week where 66 people drowned. How people can read about what's happening with the refugee crisis and then look for reasons not to be compassionate, and summarily categorize those fleeing their countries as opportunists, is deeply disturbing. Noone puts their child in a boat, unless the water is safer than the land.
I have a friend who has just returned from volunteering in Molyvos, and witnessed the disaster last week where 66 people drowned. How people can read about what's happening with the refugee crisis and then look for reasons not to be compassionate, and summarily categorize those fleeing their countries as opportunists, is deeply disturbing. Noone puts their child in a boat, unless the water is safer than the land.
3
Most of the comments I have read thus far are not at all sympathetic to the refugees/migrants. I sympathize with anybody who has left his or her homeland for any reason. I left the land of my birth for good when I was 18 yrs old. I left because I did not see a bright future for me had i stayed. It wasn't easy to leave everything and everyone that I loved. But what kept me going was the thought of new adventures and experiences. I was wide eyed and curious about America. So I joined the US Army at 19. I thought at the time that serving was my way of paying back my adopted country. Forty years later I am more American than ever. I admit that though I still speak my native language fluently...I find it hard to see the culture as my own. I feel more American and will probably never go back to the land of my birth. I will die here in America...the land I have grown to love. This country has given me so much in terms of opportunity to explore and grow as a well rounded human being. I was an immigrant who bought into the American idea that if you worked hard you would get ahead and be okay. It has certainly been true for me. I worked hard all my adult life. I still work hard to this day. I am embarking into my 60's and I have no plans on slowing down. God willing, I hope to live another 10 to 20 years and contribute to society. Please stop the immigrant bashing. You have no idea what you're talking about.
3
This is what happens in the world after 16 years pf bad US Foreign Policy. As an American, I think there should be some accountability of our part.
1
Not wanting to sound cynical, or even cold-blooded, but this article comes off as just another tug-at-you-sleeves op-ed piece disguised as journalism.
At this point, how many more pictures of weeping women and children will it take before the real cause of this calamity sinks in ??
Namely, THE SMUGGLERS and HUMAN-TRAFFICKERS who are raking in money hand over fist in what has become a cottage industry based on human misery.
This has got to stop. Enough already! Simply because if the migration of refugees and migrants keeps up at this pace, they will soon encounter a very unfriendly face of Europe. And a life less safe than the one they are trying to escape.
At this point, how many more pictures of weeping women and children will it take before the real cause of this calamity sinks in ??
Namely, THE SMUGGLERS and HUMAN-TRAFFICKERS who are raking in money hand over fist in what has become a cottage industry based on human misery.
This has got to stop. Enough already! Simply because if the migration of refugees and migrants keeps up at this pace, they will soon encounter a very unfriendly face of Europe. And a life less safe than the one they are trying to escape.
9
Anyone who refuse or is in denial of environmental or economic limits, is just unsuitable for reasoning. We all see the moral obligations, about 60 Million people fleeing war, and billions just looking for a better life. The societies they are heading to have often a delicate social equilibrium, even those, who are considered wealthy like the US or Germany.
The NYT often write about the misery, but they never write about the challenge of handling a million refugees. And many of those immigrants ain't saints, everyone writes about the right wing attacks on refugee here in germany, but up to now all homicides to refugees here were committed by other refugees.
And such editorials like about this african who nearly made it to britain illegally - this is totally off the track. If it is not illegal for one to enter a country that way, it is also not illegal for a million. And than what ? Let them loot through London because britain has not the infrastructure to shelter and feed them ?
It is so easy to write about grievance and moral obligations, but it is just cowardly not to come up with a realistic proposal and get it going. All these idealists are hypocrites, they leave the hard work to someone else.
The NYT often write about the misery, but they never write about the challenge of handling a million refugees. And many of those immigrants ain't saints, everyone writes about the right wing attacks on refugee here in germany, but up to now all homicides to refugees here were committed by other refugees.
And such editorials like about this african who nearly made it to britain illegally - this is totally off the track. If it is not illegal for one to enter a country that way, it is also not illegal for a million. And than what ? Let them loot through London because britain has not the infrastructure to shelter and feed them ?
It is so easy to write about grievance and moral obligations, but it is just cowardly not to come up with a realistic proposal and get it going. All these idealists are hypocrites, they leave the hard work to someone else.
31
@M. Weitz Frankfurt, Germany
Might I suggest you read more of the comments, and not just the articles themselves. For there you would find many opinions that closely reflect those of your own.
Not everybody is "in denial" about the hardships these massive migrations are causing.
Might I suggest you read more of the comments, and not just the articles themselves. For there you would find many opinions that closely reflect those of your own.
Not everybody is "in denial" about the hardships these massive migrations are causing.
1
That the strife of war and the treat of death is driving these people from their homes is self-evident. That they are Muslim should not be the cause of reduced compassion for a suffering people. This is truly an international crisis that requires an international solution. If we consider ourselves to be civilized citizens of the world, Islamophobia and intolerance cannot be the rule of the day. This not the first time we have witnessed this kind of panicked drive to find safety for self and family and won't be the last. Why can there not be a consortium of UN Peacekeepers working with leaders of Muslim countries to find a means of relief that does not place the burden on just a few countries?
14
Compassion and tolerance do not consist of allowing the world's billion Muslims to flood western societies.
12
" ... That the strife of war and the treat of death is driving these people from their homes is self-evident. ..."
Sorry, no it is not.
When you are able to talk to these people the their own environment and language, the story is quite different.
They know when and which story to tell in order to look in dire need of help.
In fact, they, very often, simply lie about their reasons for migrating to Europe.
They just want to get a better life, paid for by infidels.
It helps to speak to them in their own language to understand the real reasons behind this invasion.
It is a local culture of moving on when things get tight whenever there is hope for someone else who might pick up the bill.
Sorry, no it is not.
When you are able to talk to these people the their own environment and language, the story is quite different.
They know when and which story to tell in order to look in dire need of help.
In fact, they, very often, simply lie about their reasons for migrating to Europe.
They just want to get a better life, paid for by infidels.
It helps to speak to them in their own language to understand the real reasons behind this invasion.
It is a local culture of moving on when things get tight whenever there is hope for someone else who might pick up the bill.
4
Another story that focuses exclusively on the illegal economic migrants rather than the toll they take on islands, nations and societies, as they make their way to the promised lands of Germany and Sweden.
It's getting tiring both reading these stories that present only one side. And even more annoying that the NYT's objectivity and reputation for presenting the news is in danger of failing, and it being turned into a propaganda machine for open borders.
It's getting tiring both reading these stories that present only one side. And even more annoying that the NYT's objectivity and reputation for presenting the news is in danger of failing, and it being turned into a propaganda machine for open borders.
48
Nytimes lost any credibility it had left with the article suggesting that rural Italy be settled illegal Muslims. Nytimes, I ask you, seriously, is there not one person on the staff that pauses for a second and wonders if maybe, just maybe, millions of mostly uneducated Muslims moving to Europe isn't the greatest idea?
53
The Op Ed article you speak of was written by an Italian Journalist for the Italian daily Corriere della Sera. It was NOT written by a NY Times journalist. The NY Times simply reprinted it with permission to present that point of view. It is NOT an endorsement of any kind.
6
Many of these people aren't uneducated and many countries in Europe have aging populations that need immigration to continue GDP growth. Aside from the morality of the issue that the destabilization in the Middle East is largely due to 16 years of bad US Foreign Policy.
I couldn't even bring myself to read that insanity. Rural southern Italy is already filled with migrants from Africa. They hate it there and are desperate to leave. They live in abandoned buildings and the wilderness, scrounge food and drugs to survive and dream of finding their way to London.
There are plenty of news reports and interviews of African migrants in rural Italy to demonstrate the folly of this idea.
Then there is the fact that the Middle Eastern horde of young men will become violent if they are not permitted to go to Germany or Sweden. They do not want to go anywhere else, and they will not stay anywhere else if sent somewhere.
There are plenty of news reports and interviews of African migrants in rural Italy to demonstrate the folly of this idea.
Then there is the fact that the Middle Eastern horde of young men will become violent if they are not permitted to go to Germany or Sweden. They do not want to go anywhere else, and they will not stay anywhere else if sent somewhere.
10
Everyone wants a pass to free stuff. When your country fails, why stay home and solve the problem? Just jump on a boat, take a short trip, and force some other nation to deal with your problems. In the near future, Europe needs to start looking after the rights of their own legal citizens and stop pandering to the illegal immigrants who want to feed off the taxpayers of your countries. Do it now, or your cultural identity will soon be lost.
40
“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.”
― Emma Lazarus
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.”
― Emma Lazarus
4
Oh, c'mon. That's a POEM. Not a piece of legislation.
12
You're forgetting that it's 16 years of bad US Foreign Policy that has greatly contributed to these problems.
I am horrified and disgusted by the readers comments appended to this article. The new immigrants are "too Islamic." "Send them back to 'fix their own countries' rather than allow the majority to spread their misogynist attitudes and religious fanaticism...while relying on the public welfare services." "They are primarily young, able-bodied men from narrow-minded cultures that encouraged ridiculously large families..."
Ah yes, here we have the essence of the so-called "universal values" of white Europeans and Americans. These people are are not deserving of plain human decency because they are "different," a faceless horde made up not of individuals, but are the spawn of "narrow minded cultures, with "large families," that might rely on public services.
A century ago in this country, these were the reasons given to keep out the Irish, the Jews, the southern Europeans, Asians.
Where is simple Christian charity in all this? Where is simple humanity? Why do the Western powers keep pouring gasoline--arms, destabilizing military interventions, outright invasion--on the fire in the Middle East and Africa and creating failed states? Ah, we what their cheap raw materials and resources, but definitely not their people.
I'm sorry, Europe and America. You imposed globalization on the world, first with your colonial and imperial projects, now with a neo-liberal economic order. No matter what walls you erect, human ingenuity and need will overcome them. Get used to it.
Ah yes, here we have the essence of the so-called "universal values" of white Europeans and Americans. These people are are not deserving of plain human decency because they are "different," a faceless horde made up not of individuals, but are the spawn of "narrow minded cultures, with "large families," that might rely on public services.
A century ago in this country, these were the reasons given to keep out the Irish, the Jews, the southern Europeans, Asians.
Where is simple Christian charity in all this? Where is simple humanity? Why do the Western powers keep pouring gasoline--arms, destabilizing military interventions, outright invasion--on the fire in the Middle East and Africa and creating failed states? Ah, we what their cheap raw materials and resources, but definitely not their people.
I'm sorry, Europe and America. You imposed globalization on the world, first with your colonial and imperial projects, now with a neo-liberal economic order. No matter what walls you erect, human ingenuity and need will overcome them. Get used to it.
13
So, according to you, the West has caused all the problems in the Middle East and the Muslim migrants are not misogynistic. Do you really believe this?
25
Howard
Today I read an article about a woman stoned to death in Afghanistan for adultry. She was placed neck deep in put and STONED to death! And this is the religion and these are the people you would welcome to Ohio. Good luck with that
Today I read an article about a woman stoned to death in Afghanistan for adultry. She was placed neck deep in put and STONED to death! And this is the religion and these are the people you would welcome to Ohio. Good luck with that
39
Lilith, I believe that Western policies have been a significant factor behind the proliferation of failed states in the Middle East. I did not say that the West was the unique cause, which you imply I said. As to misogyny, this is hardly uniquely an affliction of Muslim societies. I am afraid you will find misogynists in all religious traditions, not least the three Abrahamic traditions--Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Nor, as I can say from personal experience, is it some sort of universal characteristic of Muslims or Muslim societies, having lived and worked with Muslims for many years in the Middle East. You say that "the Muslim migrants are...misogynistic." That is a generalization akin to saying that "Blacks are lazy."
3
After reading all of the comments on this subject, and after writing so many myself; I've come to the conclusion that most of the people writing here have more of a sense about this mass migration crisis than the EU politicians do. Scary. Because their problems are only just beginning as ever more refugees and migrants continue to pour in.
Germany is at the brink of collapse, as the voices of discontent are growing louder against Chancellor Merkel's "Fluechtlingspolitik" (Refugee Policy), and the resources to accommodate all of these masses are finally growing thin.
If anything, the writing is on the wall. And that is why the rush is on.
Germany is at the brink of collapse, as the voices of discontent are growing louder against Chancellor Merkel's "Fluechtlingspolitik" (Refugee Policy), and the resources to accommodate all of these masses are finally growing thin.
If anything, the writing is on the wall. And that is why the rush is on.
29
They are not refugees if they are leaving a safe place, Turkey for example, and seeking to go where they want to go because that's where they want to live. Refugees flee for the lives not for comfort. These are migrants, illegal ones at that. It's time we stop glorifying them and instead start returning them to the campus they chose to leave. The goal should be to get these people back to their homes as soon as that is possible, not make new ones at the expense of those already in Europe.
26
This event will be looked on in history of a game changer and the decline of Western values. Perhaps it's a result of all the wars of the past century that enables Europeans to accept an invasion of their countries without any control. In the end the numbers will win out: they will not reflect the Europe that we have come to known.
21
Donald Trump seems to be the only candidate for President who understands where the catastrophic economic migrant crisis in Europe is headed. Soon this tide of economic migrants will overflow into the United States. Once that happens there will be no turning back. Add this to the breached floodgates on our southern borders and the situation in our country will get completely out of hand. What will the population of the United States be in 50 years? In 100 years? Do the math. Is this what we want for our descendants? I don't think so.
We know when Trump becomes President he will make this issue his top priority. In the meantime he should be making plans to meet with the leaders of our allies - and the Russians - and the Iranians to cement a joint deal with them to destroy ISIS and end this mayhem in the Middle East. If anyone can pull this off, the Donald can.
We know when Trump becomes President he will make this issue his top priority. In the meantime he should be making plans to meet with the leaders of our allies - and the Russians - and the Iranians to cement a joint deal with them to destroy ISIS and end this mayhem in the Middle East. If anyone can pull this off, the Donald can.
15
Yeah, it's amazing what a man (who got a million dollar loan from his dad and attended an elite boarding school while the lesser-privileged of his generation got drafted to the Vietnam quagmire) can accomplish.. Such real-world training even eclipses the gritty experiences of George W. Bush.
1
Dermot, Russia & Iranians are already dealing w/ISIS via helping to arm Assad to fight them. It is Obama who diehard insists on arming the rebels (to supposedly fight Assad) when at this point he cant know which faction of rebels are those & which are aligned w/ISIS & if he's arming them. Absolutely ludicrous, no wonder the Syrian populace are all running for their lives from this hellhole war zone where nobody knows who's who other than they're all killing each other. Ends w/winner takes all & gets to rule Syria, a pile of rubble w/ no tax base of working citizens, because they're all in EU.
It is painfully obvious that the EU needs a plan or else there will be exponentially more migrants making the journey in the near future. The EU has already experienced difficulty in processing and settling the current wave of migrants, it does not take much imagination to realize that the EU has already reached its saturation point. The EU cannot take in all the millions of potential migrants who wish to leave Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. If Angela Merkel were a real leader, she would assiduously work to create a viable plan to keep the migrants already in existing safe haven countries in the region and to encourage other safe haven countries in the region e.g. Saudi Arabia to start to do their part. The EU could offer generous financial support to the migrants in these regional safe havens, and because costs are much lower in developing countries, it would be much cheaper to support them there than in the EU. This will benefit the migrants also, who will no longer risk their lives and the lives of their children via the dangerous crossings, and it would take pressure off the EU countries, most of whom are having a hard time coping with the hug and unplanned influx.
22
Interesting how the reporter describes Europe's "failure" to find a solution and how European governments are "bickering" as if they are silly children. The loaded implication is that there is some simple strategy that could solve this chaos.
The truth, of course, is that there is no good solution. Europeans will pay for a seemingly endless stream of migrants who will be extremely difficult to assimilate and will bring many of the grievances, superstitions, and resentments that split their homelands.
Eventually, European countries will run out of accommodations and have no choice but to close their borders just as Hungary has already done. This too will then be painted as a European "failure."
Europe will look very different in a generation due to Merkel's experiment.
The truth, of course, is that there is no good solution. Europeans will pay for a seemingly endless stream of migrants who will be extremely difficult to assimilate and will bring many of the grievances, superstitions, and resentments that split their homelands.
Eventually, European countries will run out of accommodations and have no choice but to close their borders just as Hungary has already done. This too will then be painted as a European "failure."
Europe will look very different in a generation due to Merkel's experiment.
61
Blood on the hands of everyone who encourages these folks (and thus support human trafficking).
15
What a debacle. I really hope this has a happy ending.
Today in Canada we inaugurated a new PM who pledged to do his best to bring in 25,000 Syrian refugees - by the end of this year! It is logistically impossible but Trudeau gave this deadline in response to the urgency of this crisis. He also strongly spoke out against Islamophobia even though it was not a popular position. Like the previous waves of refugees, many of whom were denied entrance in the U.S., these people will become productive Canadians. The new minister who will oversee electron reform is a refugee from Afghanistan. http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/11/04/maryam-monsef_n_8468048.html
5
Electron reform? Thought that was impossible, due to the Heisenberg uncertainty principle and other factors.
Ha, well anyway, 25,000 is nothing. Several million Syrians will be fleeing, eventually all of them, so that number amounts to far less than 1% and will not help in the slightest with the overall problem. Take in ten million and it'd be helpful, can Canada manage that?
Ha, well anyway, 25,000 is nothing. Several million Syrians will be fleeing, eventually all of them, so that number amounts to far less than 1% and will not help in the slightest with the overall problem. Take in ten million and it'd be helpful, can Canada manage that?
8
Productive like the asylum seekers Sweden took in years ago, and who have turned Malmo into a violent city where Jews are afraid to walk, let alone live?
There were three hand-grenade attacks in Malmo just last summer. Anti-Semitism is rife in the immigrant community. I do hope Canada fares better.
There were three hand-grenade attacks in Malmo just last summer. Anti-Semitism is rife in the immigrant community. I do hope Canada fares better.
23
I like Canadian immigration rules much more than the US ones. It is based on a system of points: language, money, special skills. Those 25K of the refugees will have none of these skills. I think next Canadian PM will be a conservative. It is like a mayor in NYC: 4 years a Democrat and after that 12 years a Republican trying to undo what a Democratic mayor did.
I do not see these people in Brooklyn as productive Americans. Women with 3-4 children covered in black from head to toe. I doubt very much that they work. I do know why you think Canada will be different.
I do not see these people in Brooklyn as productive Americans. Women with 3-4 children covered in black from head to toe. I doubt very much that they work. I do know why you think Canada will be different.
8
You posters who insist that the refugees aren't 'really' desperate, that they are just economic migrants and layabouts, that they are planning a muslim invasion of Europe, etc--have any of you ever been in a rowboat in rough seas and known that with a single errant wave, you were going to die? I once was, for about an hour. It's not an experience I would ever willingly undergo again unless the alternative was certain death back on land. Believe me, these are authentically desperate people. Whatever the solution to this crisis may be (and there are no easy solutions)--these people at least deserve our compassion.
23
You're putting the cart before the proverbial horse. People get into those lifeboat situations *after* they choose to embark on their voyage.
9
They aren't "planning" a Muslim invasion of Europe, this IS a Muslim invasion of Europe.
Do absolutely none of you grasp what the demographics mean here?!
Can you picture yourself in 1661 at Plymouth Rock, Jamestown, looking at all those anxious Pequots, Delaware, Alongonquin, Mohawk, Seneca, etc., and saying, "We're just nice people looking for better lives! And, look at all the room you have here and how many more there are of you than us! Besides, multiculturalism is a wonderfully enriching experience!"
150 years later, who owned the continent? Whose cultural narrative ruled, and whose cultures went to the wall, died out, and became artifacts in museums?
I suggest you review the numbers, and perhaps take a peek into Walter Laqueur's notable book, "The End of Europe". Or you could try the opinion piece published in January 2014 one week after the Charlie Hebdo attacksa in the Wall Street Journal by Christopher Caldwell, "Muslim Immigration Into Europe: A Crisis of Faith".
Demographics are history. Just ask the Sioux up on the Rosebud Reservation.
Do absolutely none of you grasp what the demographics mean here?!
Can you picture yourself in 1661 at Plymouth Rock, Jamestown, looking at all those anxious Pequots, Delaware, Alongonquin, Mohawk, Seneca, etc., and saying, "We're just nice people looking for better lives! And, look at all the room you have here and how many more there are of you than us! Besides, multiculturalism is a wonderfully enriching experience!"
150 years later, who owned the continent? Whose cultural narrative ruled, and whose cultures went to the wall, died out, and became artifacts in museums?
I suggest you review the numbers, and perhaps take a peek into Walter Laqueur's notable book, "The End of Europe". Or you could try the opinion piece published in January 2014 one week after the Charlie Hebdo attacksa in the Wall Street Journal by Christopher Caldwell, "Muslim Immigration Into Europe: A Crisis of Faith".
Demographics are history. Just ask the Sioux up on the Rosebud Reservation.
29
indeed; given tone of the top readers' picks -- would rather have refugees as fellow Americans & neighbors than these mean-spirited, angry, and cavalier persons.
We did this. It's our fault and now we need to take responsibility. We let an entire country with a marvelous heritage disintegrate. It's all our fault-
3
We have as much responsibility in this as the Ottoman Turks do. Why do so many try and always blame the US. Why not blame the radical Islamist who is causing them to flee or the Islamic dictator that is causing them to flee. The Answer is: because your bias doesn't let you blame anyone but the West/US
10
However desperate "migrants"/refugees might be,
every country has the right to control immigration:
including the right to control the types of immigrants
-- including their bona fides, as well as skill levels,
and also the right to control the rate of inflow (numbers per year), with caps,
and the right to sub-divide the caps into sub-caps for sub-categories.
I say the total annual cap for all categories for immigration into the USA ought to be limited to one million, with a sub-cap for refugees of 50,000, meaning the total sub-caps for all other categories is 950,000 annually.
and, if, in a given year, even if a good case can be made for admitting 100,000 refugees, then the total of all other categories ought to be reduced from 950,000 to 900,000.
Those who advocate for compassion for refugees need to make concrete proposals for control, including control of total numbers.
Simply advocating unlimited, uncontrolled immigration is a non-starter.
every country has the right to control immigration:
including the right to control the types of immigrants
-- including their bona fides, as well as skill levels,
and also the right to control the rate of inflow (numbers per year), with caps,
and the right to sub-divide the caps into sub-caps for sub-categories.
I say the total annual cap for all categories for immigration into the USA ought to be limited to one million, with a sub-cap for refugees of 50,000, meaning the total sub-caps for all other categories is 950,000 annually.
and, if, in a given year, even if a good case can be made for admitting 100,000 refugees, then the total of all other categories ought to be reduced from 950,000 to 900,000.
Those who advocate for compassion for refugees need to make concrete proposals for control, including control of total numbers.
Simply advocating unlimited, uncontrolled immigration is a non-starter.
20
The only question that should be asked to these refugees is why are they risking their children's lives by leaving the safety and security of the UN refugee camps in Turkey. Is the €300-500 month refugees will receive in Germany worth a child's life? Apparently it is, and once these refugees leave the safety of Turkey they become economic migrants.
43
Being in Europe right now is interesting. Every migrant that arrives in Greece says the same thing..."whatever happens to us, it will be better than what we left behind." Within a week, that sentiment is gone, and it is one demand after another until they are allowed to pass unhindered to Germany and Sweden, without respecting what is left of European law and process. Europe is committing cultural suicide, and Merkel is responsible for encouraging this mess.
70
Some people keeps pointing out to see the pictures, well the press always it is going to publish the most compleing pictures to soften you and sell the news. The bottom line it is not too much the amount of imigrants coming into Europe. In my opinion here are some of the issues that have been documented 1) Many are not Syrians, so why they are escaping 2) they are young and iliterate ,and uneducated without any skills, what they want is a good deal with welfare 3) they do not plan to integrate in western culture, this has been the case with all the Muslims, Indians and Pakistanis in Europe. They despise the western culture. But they like the benefits and life style 4) They will go back and marry a woman that is from their country and they will continue the proliferation of children and subjugation of women. The case of the guy tuning with two wives at 24 and several children. How did he planned to keep bot wives in Germany.? People do not believe that Europe economy and culture will be destroyed. I have not heard them saying I want to go to Saudi Arabia, they are rich, or to China or Russia. HMhmhmh
37
Each Times article with titles suggesting Muslims are fleeing to Europe in order to save themselves discredits the newspaper since it's apparent many of these migrants are simply leaving their native countries for economic reasons. The Times seems to have forgotten that there's supposed to be an impenetrable wall between news items and editorials.
63
The coverage on this invasion from the New York Times and other left-leaning publications has been so biased and sentimental that I find their reports difficult to read. For all of the European leftists who love spending other people's money to make themselves feel better about the bad things happening in the world, I ask humbly that you volunteer 90% of your income to help pay for scarce housing, jobs, and benefits for these poor souls. Give up half your house to them so they might live a better life; don't forget to throw out all the alcohol in your home and set up a prayer room to appeal to their Islamic sensibilities (oh no scanty dress either, that's highly offensive to them). Also send your kids to a school where 90% of the kids speak Arabic and not the native language of your country so that you can successfully integrate them into society, at the small expense of your child's education.
The paralysis of the EU in this situation, and the foolish naivete of European leaders will ultimately lead to their undoing. I predict a rise in Eurosceptic, "far-right" parties in the next few years as native Europeans grow increasingly sick of the unwillingness of their governments to protect their own borders. And I for one think this is a good thing, as "Fortress Europe" sounds a lot better than "Europeistan."
The paralysis of the EU in this situation, and the foolish naivete of European leaders will ultimately lead to their undoing. I predict a rise in Eurosceptic, "far-right" parties in the next few years as native Europeans grow increasingly sick of the unwillingness of their governments to protect their own borders. And I for one think this is a good thing, as "Fortress Europe" sounds a lot better than "Europeistan."
60
At least someone else has realized how the leftist media has tried to manipulate public opinion on this, especially this dreadful "publication."
In my case, I began a subscription to the Wall Street Journal - even though I can get the NYT free through work, and stopped reading it - because the coverage of this awful "publication" of this issue is so unbearably biased.
According to this "publication," the jews were not allowed to move to Israel to escape the death camps, but the arab muslim young men seeking welfare and jobs in Europe today: welcome them with open arms. It is just unbearable to read, and I no longer can do so.
In my case, I began a subscription to the Wall Street Journal - even though I can get the NYT free through work, and stopped reading it - because the coverage of this awful "publication" of this issue is so unbearably biased.
According to this "publication," the jews were not allowed to move to Israel to escape the death camps, but the arab muslim young men seeking welfare and jobs in Europe today: welcome them with open arms. It is just unbearable to read, and I no longer can do so.
25
Believe me, AC and you have plenty of company, yours truly included.
5
"In mid-October, an average of 8,700 a day were landing in Greece, peaking at 10,006 on Oct. 21. Fistfights broke out, and there were some stabbings, as people tried to cut in line to get the precious documents from Greek officials that allowed them to take a ferry to Athens and beyond."
What is going to be the level of violence when these mostly young men find out that they are not going to college, or getting a great job, or living in a nice part of the city? Frustration will turn to anger, which will lead them to fundamentalism. Get ready for more terror attacks.
What is going to be the level of violence when these mostly young men find out that they are not going to college, or getting a great job, or living in a nice part of the city? Frustration will turn to anger, which will lead them to fundamentalism. Get ready for more terror attacks.
61
Doesn't anyone remember the cry to help the poor people of Afghanistan, especially the women and the children who were being systematically murdered in the soccer stadiums by the Taliban? Doesn't anyone remember the pictures of the women kneeling with babies in arms being shot in the head by the Taliban? Doesn't anyone remember how well our help to these people went?
3
Why oh why oh why does The Times still call these people migrants? They are REFUGEES. Please stop mis-labelling them. Jews fleeing Nazi Germany were not migrants! Russians fleeing Communist Russia were not migrants. STOP ALREADY! I'm so sick and tired of this.
8
Oh for heaven's sake stop the emotional hysterics.
IN fact - not the NYT's propaganda line - around 60% of these people will be deported as ECONOMIC migrants.
THey are not just from Syria but from
Lebanon,
Bangladesh,
Vietnam (yep),
Pakistan,
Afghanistan (Germany has said it will ship them back if them came from around 80% of the country as does Norway and Sweden),
Egypt,
Nigeria,
Ghana,
and an endless list of African countries not at war. (The Africans head north, get to Egypt, travel to Turkey and then come over to the Greek Islands.)
Iraqis and Iranians have -at best - a 50/50 shot of being allowed to stay.
The VAST majority are ECONOMIC migrants!
BTW< 'refugee" is a legal term and identification. Even the SYrians are NOT 'refugees' until they have applied for asylum and have been determined to have a valid claim for asylum and it is granted. "Refugee" is a loaded word- legally, economically and in the world of propaganda.
IN fact - not the NYT's propaganda line - around 60% of these people will be deported as ECONOMIC migrants.
THey are not just from Syria but from
Lebanon,
Bangladesh,
Vietnam (yep),
Pakistan,
Afghanistan (Germany has said it will ship them back if them came from around 80% of the country as does Norway and Sweden),
Egypt,
Nigeria,
Ghana,
and an endless list of African countries not at war. (The Africans head north, get to Egypt, travel to Turkey and then come over to the Greek Islands.)
Iraqis and Iranians have -at best - a 50/50 shot of being allowed to stay.
The VAST majority are ECONOMIC migrants!
BTW< 'refugee" is a legal term and identification. Even the SYrians are NOT 'refugees' until they have applied for asylum and have been determined to have a valid claim for asylum and it is granted. "Refugee" is a loaded word- legally, economically and in the world of propaganda.
39
Gary,
The EU calls them migrants. They MAY eventually be classified 'refugees' after their application is examineed by designated legal representatives of an EU nation.
Refugees, seeking asylum are people who are dteremined to be threatened if they remain in their native country. Some migrants are destroying their passports so as to not be able proven to be economic migrants seeking a good life rather than fleeing for their lives.
There is at a 40% rate of non acceptance and those people will not be able to stay or have any kinf of EU documentation for jobs or benefits. Ideally they will be deported.
EUROSTAT, the official data keeper and aggregator of the EU data concerning, among other thingfs, migration statistics by month.
Just because the American media skews reportage to focus on the 20-25% of migrants who are women and children doesn't mean you know what is happening. Read Der Speigel andLe Monde to get a truer picture.
The EU calls them migrants. They MAY eventually be classified 'refugees' after their application is examineed by designated legal representatives of an EU nation.
Refugees, seeking asylum are people who are dteremined to be threatened if they remain in their native country. Some migrants are destroying their passports so as to not be able proven to be economic migrants seeking a good life rather than fleeing for their lives.
There is at a 40% rate of non acceptance and those people will not be able to stay or have any kinf of EU documentation for jobs or benefits. Ideally they will be deported.
EUROSTAT, the official data keeper and aggregator of the EU data concerning, among other thingfs, migration statistics by month.
Just because the American media skews reportage to focus on the 20-25% of migrants who are women and children doesn't mean you know what is happening. Read Der Speigel andLe Monde to get a truer picture.
28
You are incorrect. Once these Syrian people decided to leave the safety of Turkey to go benefits shopping in Europe, they became economic migrants and illegal immigrants. Those from the rest of the world are unquestionably economic migrants.
13
They obviously will keep coming because they know they will be let in!!! So keep the doors and freebie bags wide open Europe- the drownings will increase, as well peoples patience.
27
What is going on with Germany & the EU countries? The leaders should be huddled in meetings 24/7 figuring out how as a unit they can work to set up soldiers & officials on Lesbos to decide on the spot what to do with the economic migrants and the refugees. If they are migrants send them back on safe ships, if they are refugees place them in camps before deciding which country will take them in. Germany has encouraged this madness now they must deal with it properly. This is only going to get worse and European citizens are going to angrier and angrier as their taxes go to programs for people who are culturally 360 degrees different than they are. Where is the UAE, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait? Doing nothing as usual to help their fellow muslims...
65
What is going on in the EU countries? It depends on which countries. Greece, Croatia, Slovenia, and Austria are desperate for assistance in dealing with the tens of thousands of migrants that Chancellor Merkel welcomed to Germany - as long as they could get there on their own.
But Croatia, Slovenia, Austria, and Germany are literally not speaking to each other about what is happening. Slovenia has no idea how many migrants will be sent to them out of Croatia on any day because Croatia won't tell them. Austria has no idea how many will come because Slovenia won't tell them. Bavaria has no idea...
And Bavaria's government is incensed by the failure of the national government to institute any sort of controls over the rate of entry or the total that will be allowed to enter. They are threatening to build a fence like Hungary.
What is not in the Times is the fact that the UK is not participating in any meetings regarding the distribution of the migrants as they view it as Germany's problem. Depending on the meeting, Ireland, Denmark, Finland, and Poland may also be boycotting the meeting, or refusing to take any migrants.
Bulgaria, Romania, and Slovakia are terrified that they will become like Croatia and Slovenia. Spain, Portugal, and Italy are happy that no one wants to live there. The Baltic states are too scared of Russia to worry about the migrants.
The mysteries are France, Belgium, and the Netherlands. They are being quiet so hopefully no one notices them.
But Croatia, Slovenia, Austria, and Germany are literally not speaking to each other about what is happening. Slovenia has no idea how many migrants will be sent to them out of Croatia on any day because Croatia won't tell them. Austria has no idea how many will come because Slovenia won't tell them. Bavaria has no idea...
And Bavaria's government is incensed by the failure of the national government to institute any sort of controls over the rate of entry or the total that will be allowed to enter. They are threatening to build a fence like Hungary.
What is not in the Times is the fact that the UK is not participating in any meetings regarding the distribution of the migrants as they view it as Germany's problem. Depending on the meeting, Ireland, Denmark, Finland, and Poland may also be boycotting the meeting, or refusing to take any migrants.
Bulgaria, Romania, and Slovakia are terrified that they will become like Croatia and Slovenia. Spain, Portugal, and Italy are happy that no one wants to live there. The Baltic states are too scared of Russia to worry about the migrants.
The mysteries are France, Belgium, and the Netherlands. They are being quiet so hopefully no one notices them.
3
What could President Obama have been thinking about when he concluded a deal with Iran that will enable them to supply Hezbollah and Hamas with advanced rocket and missiles and keep their own atomic bomb development work on track for the
future. He thought the Middle East was running short of problems?
future. He thought the Middle East was running short of problems?
9
Oh like Bush/Cheney did such a fine job in the middle east?
8
Which deal was that, that included announced provisions to supply "advanced rocket & missiles to Hamas & Hezzbollah? Will they be as advanced as the weaponry that the U.S. ensures a supply of to Israel? Otherwise, not to worry.
I am at a loss to understand how Europe can possible absorb these many people and give them jobs and housing. I fear that there will be lots of problems and troubles when the refugees find out they will be 2nd class citizens doomed to live off welfare benefits for the rest of their lives - especially the thousands of young men who are crossing that lack the skills and education to find decent jobs. The other problem is the citizens of these European countries. While they were at first welcoming, many now say enough is enough.
63
The answer is, Europe can't. It will be the poor and working-class in Europe, of which there are plenty, who pay the price of shrinking benefits packages, compressed wages due to another influx of low-wage workers, and their cultures are further eroded. "Activists" like Benedict Cumberbatch live in neighborhoods like Hampstead that, I assure you, will never see a refugee center set up in their midst.
23
This is tragic, but predictable. Of course it's better to chance death at sea than to stay in Syria, because Syria has no future. Even if one managed to dodge the bombs, chemical weapons attacks, gun battles, and jihadist murderers, the water is running out, and when it's gone everyone there will die excruciatingly. That fate is likely because nobody's working on avoiding it, they're too busy fighting each other over religious and tribal feuds.
So it's better to take to the sea than stay someplace like Syria because it's better to be dead than live in Syria now. Death is peaceful, or looks that way.
Earlier I posited that the flow of refugees would dip a bit over the winter months because more will die in transit and more will stay put and hunker down, in Turkey, Croatia, and so forth; I still think that's true. But in spring the numbers will go back up, and reach far higher than they have yet, as the endgame is the entire population of the Mideast will have to leave or die.
There is something that can be done about this, but nobody will like it. Take over all the failed nations (Syria, Libya, Egypt, Yemen, Eritrea, Afghanistan, and so on), don't grant them self-rule, divide them up by sect, rule them firmly, apply capital punishment liberally, and force them to be civilized and peaceful. Then invest heavily in water desalination and birth control, with an emphasis on paying men to have vasectomies. But nobody will do that, so doom is assured.
So it's better to take to the sea than stay someplace like Syria because it's better to be dead than live in Syria now. Death is peaceful, or looks that way.
Earlier I posited that the flow of refugees would dip a bit over the winter months because more will die in transit and more will stay put and hunker down, in Turkey, Croatia, and so forth; I still think that's true. But in spring the numbers will go back up, and reach far higher than they have yet, as the endgame is the entire population of the Mideast will have to leave or die.
There is something that can be done about this, but nobody will like it. Take over all the failed nations (Syria, Libya, Egypt, Yemen, Eritrea, Afghanistan, and so on), don't grant them self-rule, divide them up by sect, rule them firmly, apply capital punishment liberally, and force them to be civilized and peaceful. Then invest heavily in water desalination and birth control, with an emphasis on paying men to have vasectomies. But nobody will do that, so doom is assured.
25
The water is running out in Europe, too.
2
Who wrote that headline for The New York Times? Okay, time for a painful, learning experience: Terrified refugees don't care what the weather is.
4
The US is simply not helping enough. We must extend ourselves to these people.
2
wbaxter - Only after we stem the tide of South American, Central American and Mexican "migrants" flooding into the United States. Perhaps we can trade our "migrants" for Europe's "migrants" on a one to one basis to keep it fair.
9
There are a bunch of people who are already here whom we are not helping enough. Do they have to leave the country and then try to re-enter in order to garner your sympathy?
18
There are 500,000 homeless in America. Winter is coming here too. Let's house and feed outr own first.
11
It breaks my heart to see all these people taking so much of risk to go to European countries, risking their lives throughout the journey. Europe is scrambling and holding their heads not knowing how to handle this surge in the migrant flood.
1) There is a major cut down on the UN funding to the syrian refugees. The refugees currently living in Jordan and Turkey cannot work officially. They either have to beg or depend on the food provided by UNHCR or other humanitarian organizations. This really turned the tables for the refugees and they are taking extreme steps to move to a safer country with free benefits just to feed themselves.
2) USA, UK, Arab Countries, France etc are spending billions of dollars on the war against Assad and ISIS. Instead of spending there, they can do a world of good if they can give the same funds to the UN to feed the refugees. Atleast they will stay where they are instead of trying to migrate. US spent $500M just to train 5 fighters. They could have spent that $500M to feed 5M ppl for few days. Arab countries, with all the money they have, can take in some refugees in their countries. Except Jordan and Turkey, i dont see any other Arab nations taking in the refugees. Instead, they are spending billions of dollars fuelling the war that no one sees an end to. Atleast they can spend some of that money to feed them.
1) There is a major cut down on the UN funding to the syrian refugees. The refugees currently living in Jordan and Turkey cannot work officially. They either have to beg or depend on the food provided by UNHCR or other humanitarian organizations. This really turned the tables for the refugees and they are taking extreme steps to move to a safer country with free benefits just to feed themselves.
2) USA, UK, Arab Countries, France etc are spending billions of dollars on the war against Assad and ISIS. Instead of spending there, they can do a world of good if they can give the same funds to the UN to feed the refugees. Atleast they will stay where they are instead of trying to migrate. US spent $500M just to train 5 fighters. They could have spent that $500M to feed 5M ppl for few days. Arab countries, with all the money they have, can take in some refugees in their countries. Except Jordan and Turkey, i dont see any other Arab nations taking in the refugees. Instead, they are spending billions of dollars fuelling the war that no one sees an end to. Atleast they can spend some of that money to feed them.
2
I think the difference between the NYT commenters and the commenters on the Human's of New York pictures of refugees (with heart breaking stories) is fascinating. Do people only feel empathy if they see something and hear about the horror that some of these people are escaping? It's easy to say that we should only allow in the refugees who "really need it", but how do we make this distinction? While governments try to sort economic refugees from those fleeing autocratic oppression, people are dying and suffering.
Frankly it appeals me that people are so un-empathetic. If you haven't seen those pictures yet, I suggest viewing them and trying not to cry.
Frankly it appeals me that people are so un-empathetic. If you haven't seen those pictures yet, I suggest viewing them and trying not to cry.
1
It's also easy to say that other people are doing bad things far away from where you are.
4
Believe me, Germany would be happy to send 50,000 or so to Boston. Why don't you lobby your local city government to take them?
6
Let me summarize what is happening. Hundreds of thousands of refugees are coming to Europe demanding a place to live and there is no end in sight.
I read once a comment submitted by a US immigration worker:" If we open our borders, a billion people will be here. Tomorrow".
This is exactly what Europe is facing. Europe has only two choices: 1.to keep accepting the refugees and to cease to be Europe as we know it because the more it accepts, the more refugees will come until the whole Middle East, Africa, Asia relocates to Europe looking for a better life or 2. to turn the refugees back.
I do not know a solution to this problem but what is happening is nothing less than a catastrophe. Europe started with a good heart and now facing an invasion.
I believe it was Canadian government who said: "We want to help these people however the safety of Canadians comes first'. I agree with them.
I read once a comment submitted by a US immigration worker:" If we open our borders, a billion people will be here. Tomorrow".
This is exactly what Europe is facing. Europe has only two choices: 1.to keep accepting the refugees and to cease to be Europe as we know it because the more it accepts, the more refugees will come until the whole Middle East, Africa, Asia relocates to Europe looking for a better life or 2. to turn the refugees back.
I do not know a solution to this problem but what is happening is nothing less than a catastrophe. Europe started with a good heart and now facing an invasion.
I believe it was Canadian government who said: "We want to help these people however the safety of Canadians comes first'. I agree with them.
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or 2. to turn the refugees back.
Isn't this exactly what is happening? I read an article in NYT recently giving the percentage of how many are allowed to stay vs. how many are returned home.
NYT, please include this information in all articles regarding the refugees entering Europe Full information will give us readers a much better understanding of what is actually happening..
Isn't this exactly what is happening? I read an article in NYT recently giving the percentage of how many are allowed to stay vs. how many are returned home.
NYT, please include this information in all articles regarding the refugees entering Europe Full information will give us readers a much better understanding of what is actually happening..
1
It's like reverse colonialism. Once Europeans set out seeking fortune and new lives in Africa, the Middle East, and Asia. Eventually they were thrown out.
Today the flow is moving from many of these same global locations towards Europe- refugees fleeing war and new lives and economic migrants seeking jobs and a new life.
Interesting.
Today the flow is moving from many of these same global locations towards Europe- refugees fleeing war and new lives and economic migrants seeking jobs and a new life.
Interesting.
7
Will they find "jobs and a new life"? Probably not.
8
Yes, the European colonists were eventually thrown out. Hopefully, Europe will wake up and eventually throw out these new colonists. They should be sent back to Africa and the Middle East before it is too late.
20
I won't make any friends here with this slight harangue but ... A flood of 'refugees' now. A cascade of blood later. Cork it, Europe. Counter this quiet invasion with justifiable impunity. Your children's children will thank you if not your children. Pursue the present course and your kind acceptance of this gentle juggernaut eventually will lead to ugly devastation.
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Send them back to *fix their own countries* rather than allow the majority to spread their misogynist attitudes and religious fanaticism in their host countries while relying on the public welfare services.
There are problems already with the Moslem immigrants in France and other countries. This new influx of economic migrants is no different. Why is the NYT publishing article after article pandering for these migrants?
There are problems already with the Moslem immigrants in France and other countries. This new influx of economic migrants is no different. Why is the NYT publishing article after article pandering for these migrants?
77
Can we please start calling these people what they really are? They are primarily young, able-bodied men from narrow-minded cultures that encouraged ridiculously large families, many of whom are abandoning their women and children in war zones rather than stay and try to make life better at home ... they are voluntary economic migrants?
77
They are not abandoning their family. That is the problem. They are crossing the sea alone because they are young and able with the full expectation of being granted asylum and then bringing all their family (including their wives, children and parents) over to join them.
9
Most countries would call these men 'cowards'.
Not exactly the kind of immigrant any civilized country needs.
Not exactly the kind of immigrant any civilized country needs.
10
The reality here is that these "immigrants" are not going to find prosperity in Sweden or Germany or anywhere else in Europe. They are mostly uneducated and unskilled. In other words, they are largely unemployable in twenty first century Europe. They will be dependent on public assistance for a long time. Extreme right wing political parties are already becoming more electable as a result of this migration.
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They most certainly are not unemployable. They will take all labor jobs away from citizens at half the cost.
Why do you think Merkle wants them? Slave labor.
Why do you think Merkle wants them? Slave labor.
4
There is no market for unskilled labor in Europe -- especially Germany. The arrivals do not speak German. Germany has strong labor unions that actively protect the rights of German workers.
8
Will this human tide ever recede? Other than bad weather conditions preventing passage, don't think so. It'll be open migrant season forever and then what? Wouldn't be surprised if there's an uptick of applicants to the US from Europe. What would you do if this was happening in your hometown? Where are all of these people going to sleep? Eat? Work? Volunteers and relief workers must be exhausted too. The logistics must be insane trying to coordinate all of these people coming ashore daily. It just all seems endless.
35
What would YOU do if your hometown was in Syria?
I was planning a trip to Europe next year, just riding trains and seeing the countries my relatives came from, not anymore. Europe is committing cultural suicide. There is not one dominantly Muslim country that anyone can call a success. Tick them off, Afghanistan, Pakistan, the other stans, Libya, Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, Yemen, Sudan, Somalia...and the Russians are bombing Syria so they don't have to re-patriate Muslims. The EU is a hot mess and Angela Merkel is responsible for every person that drowns trying to get to Germany. More than a million Muslims, mostly young men, pouring into Europe, what could possibly go wrong? And where are the wealthy Arab countries, crickets.
91
Try Turkey. Not perfect, but ranked 18th in the world by GDP. Please note, much of Germany's success as the 4th ranked country in the world, by GDP, is due to Turkish immigrants. Show me a country please, that suffered because of immigration, legal or illegal? Certainly not the US of A.
1
A physician: The growing American black middle class has been decimated by illegal immigration, starting with the first amnesty under Reagan.
Not every American is highly educated or skilled, but most citizens would rather help our own people, especially those whose ancestors did not come here willingly, before we help those who break our laws to jump the line.
Not every American is highly educated or skilled, but most citizens would rather help our own people, especially those whose ancestors did not come here willingly, before we help those who break our laws to jump the line.
11
" Show me a country please, that suffered because of immigration, legal or illegal?"
How about the entire Western Hemisphere?
How about the entire Western Hemisphere?
6
I would hope that as the government of Syria strengthens the most populous parts of Syria extending out from Damascus will become secure and peaceful again lessening migration from Syria. A fall of the government would have been a disaster for Syrians. Now I hope and think there is a chance at an increasing peace. After peace is significantly secured, the structure of the government can be peacefully decided in turn.
3
Where do you get your news? Syria is a failed state.
7
Dear Mr. Lyman,
Given that most refugees face a certain and gruesome death, why would rough seas and falling temperature stop the flow of refugees?
But just as the WE failed Greeks and Armenians during the genocide committed by Turks after WWI, just as WE failed Jews during the Holocaust, just as WE failed Chileans during the U.S.-supported Pinochet genocide, Guatemalans during the U.S.-supported Rios Montt genocide, and Rwandans during the 1994 genocide, WE will fail Middle Eastern Muslims during the current genocide.
Failure to act during genocide is what define WE in the west.
Given that most refugees face a certain and gruesome death, why would rough seas and falling temperature stop the flow of refugees?
But just as the WE failed Greeks and Armenians during the genocide committed by Turks after WWI, just as WE failed Jews during the Holocaust, just as WE failed Chileans during the U.S.-supported Pinochet genocide, Guatemalans during the U.S.-supported Rios Montt genocide, and Rwandans during the 1994 genocide, WE will fail Middle Eastern Muslims during the current genocide.
Failure to act during genocide is what define WE in the west.
10
Genocide has been occurring in African countries for decades, and the West has nary lifted a finger. America's first black President, Mr Obama, who excels at addressing every racial "disrespect" that arises in America with rhetorical aplomb, has done nothing but ask his wife to write note card "tweets" for the slaughter in Africa. Why should the Syrians and north Africans be any more privileged than those suffering in Sub Sharan Africa? Why would you expect this administration to do anything more than tweet?
5
This isn't genocide of Middle Eastern Muslims - there are one billion on the planet, and they are already 25% of Europe's population. At least 75% of them are economic migrants. And small European countries with benefits systems that eventually will crack under the strain will simply shift the pain on to those countries poor and working classes.
Europe currently has nearly 23 million unemployed. Britain imports 40% of its food and has two million unemployed. France's economy is stagnant. Sweden is already borrowing abroad to help it with its migrant burden, and its ethnic Swedish population is aghast at what the numbers mean for their demographics in the future - southern Sweden where most immigrants are represented bears no resemblance to the peaceful, prosperous Sweden of 30 years ago.
No migrants want to live anywhere but the big cities. London is now the most congested city in Europe.
The planet is home to one billion Muslims, and you are talking about genocide?
Europe currently has nearly 23 million unemployed. Britain imports 40% of its food and has two million unemployed. France's economy is stagnant. Sweden is already borrowing abroad to help it with its migrant burden, and its ethnic Swedish population is aghast at what the numbers mean for their demographics in the future - southern Sweden where most immigrants are represented bears no resemblance to the peaceful, prosperous Sweden of 30 years ago.
No migrants want to live anywhere but the big cities. London is now the most congested city in Europe.
The planet is home to one billion Muslims, and you are talking about genocide?
53
We've read a lot about the migrants (mostly men). I'd be interested to read about the women and children they left behind. Seems like the kind of story the NYT would pick up.
33
I don't know what the numbers are, but in the photos I've seen and articles I've read (not just this one but over the past months), it is evident that entire families are migrating...Demographics in the Middle East being what they are, there is a surplus of single, young, detached men, but that is nothing new. It is also not surprising that those young men, being likely targets or conscripts back home, would be most eager to leave.
Syria's neighbors, as well as the EU, cannot absorb all of the people who are looking for a better life elsewhere. Not only are millions and millions of refugees financially unsustainable for all but the wealthiest countries, the huge influx of people who are seeking to leave their country but not their culture will most likely result in large islands of immigrants who do not assimilate but rather who band together to maintain their cultural identity. Neither of these developments are positive.
These refugees will continue to sell their futures and risk their lives unless and until they become convinced that there is nothing but a forcible repatriation waiting for them. EU Coast Guards and possibly even NATO ships should be patrolling the waters most used for crossing, rescuing foundering boats, arresting smugglers and returning refugees to their point of exit.
These refugees will continue to sell their futures and risk their lives unless and until they become convinced that there is nothing but a forcible repatriation waiting for them. EU Coast Guards and possibly even NATO ships should be patrolling the waters most used for crossing, rescuing foundering boats, arresting smugglers and returning refugees to their point of exit.
57
"Park Hotel. More than 30 exquisite hotels worldwide" is the ad immediately juxtaposed with this article on the immigrants' travails and suffering. And just where are all the oligarchs in the U.S. and elsewhere trying to address this issue?
Most of us are helpless to do much more than read and hope for a quick and lasting solution. A few billionaires here and there could certainly ameliorate this crisis one helluva lot!
Most of us are helpless to do much more than read and hope for a quick and lasting solution. A few billionaires here and there could certainly ameliorate this crisis one helluva lot!
7
Some additional perspective:
- $1,100 per adult to be smuggled approximately 10 miles from the Turkish coast near Izmir to the Greek island of Lesbos
- The family quoted in the article hopes to make it from a Greek island ultimately to Sweden over who knows how many weeks / months and at what further cost
- A simple Kayak search reveals that Pegasus Airlines, Turkey's JetBlue / Ryanair flies one way from Izmir, Turkey to Stockholm, Sweden with a layover in Istanbul for $131 per person
The world is wasting precious time, money and human life in order to avoid making some hard decisions about the orderly and humane distribution of refugees.
- $1,100 per adult to be smuggled approximately 10 miles from the Turkish coast near Izmir to the Greek island of Lesbos
- The family quoted in the article hopes to make it from a Greek island ultimately to Sweden over who knows how many weeks / months and at what further cost
- A simple Kayak search reveals that Pegasus Airlines, Turkey's JetBlue / Ryanair flies one way from Izmir, Turkey to Stockholm, Sweden with a layover in Istanbul for $131 per person
The world is wasting precious time, money and human life in order to avoid making some hard decisions about the orderly and humane distribution of refugees.
7
@ Cem:
At what point do you stop ferrying people from war-torn countries to northern Europe?
At what point do you stop ferrying people from war-torn countries to northern Europe?
4
We will see an elemental shift of attitude in Europe as the citizens there see their new immigrants as a net loss economically.
Too many, too quickly, too poor, too uneducated, too islamic.
A mess.
Too many, too quickly, too poor, too uneducated, too islamic.
A mess.
93
Actually, many of them are wealthy and educated and looking to start business, continue careers in engineering, provide their skills, etc. It costs thousands to hire help to cross borders, and many of these families can afford it. They will most likely help the economy. Merkel, the queen of austerity, wouldn't do this if Germany wouldn't benefit economically.
As someone whose family came to this country at the turn of the last century I could paraphrase as follows:
"We will see an elemental shift of attitude in the United States as the citizens there see their new immigrants as a net loss economically.
Too many, too quickly, too poor, too uneducated, too (Jewish, Italian,Irish)" ...Take your pick.
"We will see an elemental shift of attitude in the United States as the citizens there see their new immigrants as a net loss economically.
Too many, too quickly, too poor, too uneducated, too (Jewish, Italian,Irish)" ...Take your pick.
1
Most of the people are leaving these countries not because they are afraid of their lives, but because they think that they think wrongly that they can have a good life in the west. Many also got the wrong impression from Merkel's statements that Germany is eagerly waiting for them to arrive in their country. The reality is that these people are better off living in their country rather than moving to Germany. And their skills are more suited and more needed in their own countries rather than in the west
61
@vnag,
Just say that you don't want to have refugees in your country, but these people are indeed leaving their countries because they come from bombed cities and are right to be afraid of their lives! Frau Merkel may exagerate with her welcome message but your statement is not to be taken serious.
Just say that you don't want to have refugees in your country, but these people are indeed leaving their countries because they come from bombed cities and are right to be afraid of their lives! Frau Merkel may exagerate with her welcome message but your statement is not to be taken serious.
4
Hum!
a) Rough seas and falling temperatures with the hope for a better life, even though it will be lived on the margins of the dominant society?
b) Or a gruesome death in a failed state where you have absolutely NO future?
Which would I choose? It's "Sophie's Choice" all over again!
The refugees WILL come, whether the racial, ethnic and religious purity advocates want them to come or not.
Therefore, the only viable solution is to prepare to house the refugees.
I'm excited. In addition to my day job, I volunteer to help the locals as well immigrants learn English and integrate into society at my local community college (I don't ask anyone what their immigrant status is, or whether they belong to a particular ethnic or religious or political group).
I recently helped a home-schooled adolescent pass her GED. Next semester she'll be in college. My next client is a Russian émigré.
a) Rough seas and falling temperatures with the hope for a better life, even though it will be lived on the margins of the dominant society?
b) Or a gruesome death in a failed state where you have absolutely NO future?
Which would I choose? It's "Sophie's Choice" all over again!
The refugees WILL come, whether the racial, ethnic and religious purity advocates want them to come or not.
Therefore, the only viable solution is to prepare to house the refugees.
I'm excited. In addition to my day job, I volunteer to help the locals as well immigrants learn English and integrate into society at my local community college (I don't ask anyone what their immigrant status is, or whether they belong to a particular ethnic or religious or political group).
I recently helped a home-schooled adolescent pass her GED. Next semester she'll be in college. My next client is a Russian émigré.
14
So it's OK to attempt to enforce your culture on an established country? I embrace people from many places but when you move to a country with absolutely no desire to assimilate, that's a problem.
21
@Jon NM
"Therefore the only viable solution is to prepare to house the refugees"
Sounds great. But it is very easy to say something like that 4,000 miles away from Europe where the situation has grown completely out of control
and systems are so overwhelmed by the amount of arriving refugees and migrants, that countries are either shutting down their borders, or pushing the masses on to the next stop along the transit route.
While what you are doing in New Mexico is quite admirable. It is NOTHING like what is going on at the moment in Europe.
"Therefore the only viable solution is to prepare to house the refugees"
Sounds great. But it is very easy to say something like that 4,000 miles away from Europe where the situation has grown completely out of control
and systems are so overwhelmed by the amount of arriving refugees and migrants, that countries are either shutting down their borders, or pushing the masses on to the next stop along the transit route.
While what you are doing in New Mexico is quite admirable. It is NOTHING like what is going on at the moment in Europe.
9
It is easy to have a bleeding heart and want to feed and take care of every impoverished person in the world. BUT when will you realize that taking in EVERY single refugee in the world is not possible nor is a smart thing to do. These masses of young men running away should be fighting for their country not looking for other countries to take care of them. Also you say we should just "prepare to house the refugees". Which is what countries are doing now obviously- but what happens when the cookie jar runs dry? What happens when countries dont have enough to take care of their own anymore? oh let me guess the "refugees" will quickly take jobs and learn the language and integrate and work hard to support the countries that took them in- NOT. They will most likely demand for more and governments will be strained and will be forced into bankruptcy perhaps sparking a worldwide war. Helping people get their GEDs will not matter at that point my friend.
9
I think US and Europe should come an agreement for letting all the Iraqi refugees in Europe to be deported to US.
7
Yes! Establish a large refugee center near the Crawford Ranch and Jackson Hole (Cheney resides?) !
3