Police have no business in schools!
66
Where is the NYT's outrage that kids and people in general have no respect for authority and law and order?
59
I keep wondering, in our country now, how is anyone supposed to get a disruptive, unresponsive teenager gently out of a classroom?
94
"white sheriff’s deputy in a Columbia, S.C., classroom throwing and dragging an African-American student"
I wonder why you have to frame the story in racial terms?
Race had nothing to do with this incident.
By constantly using the term "African American" you are increasing racial division and tension it is not the least bit helpful.
I wonder why you have to frame the story in racial terms?
Race had nothing to do with this incident.
By constantly using the term "African American" you are increasing racial division and tension it is not the least bit helpful.
60
My wife, Cameroonian and product of six years of education in that country, remarked today that the school, its students and their parents, which our son (my stepson– the white stepfather, her biological son – the African mother) attends treats him “a bit differently” from a white student. My wife knows nothing of the ongoing debates about race in the US, yet she senses it. I, the white male stepfather, have also had “the conversation” with our ten-year-old fifth grader – hands at your sides, no sudden moves, say “Sir” a lot, in case you are ever approached by a policeman.
34
“Police-driven policies have not made schools safer.” To conservatives, it made them more American.
21
Couldn't they just make her write 100 times on the blackboard, "I will not mess with my cell phone during class"?
38
Find it interesting there is the blanket statement here that cops don't make schools safer (data please). Also thought it is interesting that the video we are talking about went viral but the protest of over 200 kids in that school in SUPPORT of the fired cop did not. The kids seem to have a different interpretation than everyone here does.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/10/30/student-walkout-bac...
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/10/30/student-walkout-bac...
34
If you're a kid in a high school doing something that gets you put in handcuffs and a chokehold by a police officer, the problem isn't the school, or the officer.
Think about it.
Think about it.
52
NYT: "Police-driven policies have not made schools safer."
Having made that assertion, now ask inner-city teachers and administrators how they feel about removing school resource officers.
Having made that assertion, now ask inner-city teachers and administrators how they feel about removing school resource officers.
52
Police are in schools primarily to protect students. According to the Justice Department’s Bureau of Justice Statistics, students ages 12–18 experience higher rates of victimizations at school than away from school. There are about a dozen homicide per year in K-12 schools, not counting mass shooting events. In 2013, there were about 749,200 nonfatal violent victimizations at school among students 12 to 18 years of age, including about 455,900 theft victimizations and 966,000 violent victimizations, which included simple assault, aggravated assault, rape, sexual assault, and robbery. Seven percent of students in grades 9–12 reported being threatened or injured with a weapon such as a gun, knife, or club on school property. Besides dealing with crimes on campus, the police help teachers maintain order in the classroom, thereby protecting the student’s right to an education. Police also protect teachers. Each year about 10 percent of school teachers are threaten with physical attack and about five percent are physical assaulted, with female teachers being attacked more often than male teachers. In a typical year, about 300,000 school teachers are attacked by students. The video showing the South Carolina officer wrestling a student out of her street is not a violent school video, at least not when compared to the violent videos that show students attacking teachers, which never seem to “go viral” because newspapers like the New York Times ignore them.
37
Main problem: too many people on the planet.
Sub problem: too many stupid people on the planet.
Sub problem: too many stupid people on the planet.
43
Anyone who thinks the schools do not need policing should spend a day or two at some of these schools and see what the teachers have to put up with!
67
I see a lot of comments from people who have obviously not been in a public school classroom in a long time. These people do not have a clue about the challenges facing a public school teacher. Educators have not turned over management of schools to police as stated in the editorial; rather educators have had to rely on backup from police at times. During my career of 28 years I took 7 knives away from students. I handled those situations myself without even calling for administrative backup because I felt it would be counterproductive. However, I do appreciate having the police there if I needed them. I have called school security many times to remove disruptive students as I felt that was necessary sometimes. As our school policeperson stated on many occasions, school police should only be used when there are violations of law, not discipline. And there are plenty of those instances in large public schools.
66
We now tell teachers they can be rated down and possibly fired if their students don't learn, and at the same time we're telling them they should just tolerate kids playing with their phones during class because it's no big deal.
Make up your minds, folks, what you expect of these people. They are not superhuman. If they can't enforce any rules in their classrooms, how can they be blamed for students who haven't learned anything?
Make up your minds, folks, what you expect of these people. They are not superhuman. If they can't enforce any rules in their classrooms, how can they be blamed for students who haven't learned anything?
54
I was living in Boulder CO when cops came into the schools as part of the anti-drug DARE program. Horrified, I took my daughter out of 5th grade DARE classes, which were "taught" by fully armed police officers. I was the only parent who objected, and the principle looked at me as if I'd lost my mind. The brainchild of Daryl Gates (the former LA Chief of Police also upped the use of paramilitary tactics in his force and presided over the beating of Rodney King), DARE has now been proven ineffective, even counter-productive, but cops with guns are permanent fixtures in schools. And children are considered criminals who must be subdued.
32
The police have no business being in an elementary school.
35
I used to be a high school teacher in a fairly tough school. I was upset by the video, and was glad the officer was fired, but I placed a lot of blame on the teacher, too. You don't say to a student, "If you don't comply, we will drag you out of your desk." It's a bad threat, because you are then obligated to make good on it. Teenagers are hot-headed and stubborn. You, the teacher, have an obligation not to "set up" the consequences so that they will end violently if a grumpy, angry student (who isn't actually hurting anyone) can't calm down quickly enough to comply.
The truth is, there are a lot of things you can do or say in these situations. One is letting the student sit there grumpily at their desk until they have calmed down. Another is dealing with it after class, or the next day, or by having someone come from the office to talk to the student.
Dealing with children and with the public at large is not like "the Dog Whisperer" -- you don't have to get crushing obedience in order to be successful. In fact, when a teacher is yelling at their class about how "you better respect me", that is usually a sign of a teacher who is not in control. Good teachers allow a little latitude for human weakness. You can control a class better by being human than inhuman. You can get more respect by giving it than by taking it away.
The truth is, there are a lot of things you can do or say in these situations. One is letting the student sit there grumpily at their desk until they have calmed down. Another is dealing with it after class, or the next day, or by having someone come from the office to talk to the student.
Dealing with children and with the public at large is not like "the Dog Whisperer" -- you don't have to get crushing obedience in order to be successful. In fact, when a teacher is yelling at their class about how "you better respect me", that is usually a sign of a teacher who is not in control. Good teachers allow a little latitude for human weakness. You can control a class better by being human than inhuman. You can get more respect by giving it than by taking it away.
165
I think you're right the police shouldn't be called in for this situation. The teacher should've been able to do the same thing the cop did. Why do you need the police for that?
Of course the teacher probably would've been fired then.
When I was in junior high school I punched a kid right in the mouth who is bullying me. We were both taken to the boys Dean. He took us upstairs somewhere where he pulled out a paddle with holes and gave us both one good whack. I found out what it was to see stars.
I can tell you after that I was very lucky reluctant to ever throw another punch. And I had a right to do what I did. That girl was totally in the wrong. Mr. Turner would've taking care of her butt good. That's a lesson she needed to learn.
Of course the teacher probably would've been fired then.
When I was in junior high school I punched a kid right in the mouth who is bullying me. We were both taken to the boys Dean. He took us upstairs somewhere where he pulled out a paddle with holes and gave us both one good whack. I found out what it was to see stars.
I can tell you after that I was very lucky reluctant to ever throw another punch. And I had a right to do what I did. That girl was totally in the wrong. Mr. Turner would've taking care of her butt good. That's a lesson she needed to learn.
12
We need to understand the role that trauma plays when students are disciplined. A disturbingly high number of children and teens, particularly poor children of color, have experienced trauma and are suffering from PTSD. Because most teachers and cops aren’t trained to understand the massive impacts trauma can have on a person’s behavior, they treat traumatized children like criminals. In this way, trauma only works to keep marginalized children oppressed.
For example, a young person who grew up in a violent home could go into fight-or-flight mode when his teacher raises her voice. He might even leave the classroom. Because teachers (and school cops) don’t understand the impacts of trauma, they view this behavior as a form of disrespect, and the student is punished, sometimes excessively and violently, as the most recent spate of videos shows.
Instead of brutalizing traumatized children, schools need to recognize the impact that PTSD has on learning. When we care for children who have been victims of trauma, we can help them heal and succeed in school and life. But if we use extreme and violent punishment, we let traumas keep children of color oppressed.
For example, a young person who grew up in a violent home could go into fight-or-flight mode when his teacher raises her voice. He might even leave the classroom. Because teachers (and school cops) don’t understand the impacts of trauma, they view this behavior as a form of disrespect, and the student is punished, sometimes excessively and violently, as the most recent spate of videos shows.
Instead of brutalizing traumatized children, schools need to recognize the impact that PTSD has on learning. When we care for children who have been victims of trauma, we can help them heal and succeed in school and life. But if we use extreme and violent punishment, we let traumas keep children of color oppressed.
25
Honestly, you folks type whatever you want and think that makes it true. And once again, the august New York Times offers a couple of anecdotal instances and the same tired, contextless "disparate impact" argument on behalf of a position that recommends itself primarily because of how it makes you feel about yourselves.
In Philadelphia, where school violence is systematically under-reported and downplayed, School Police Officers and metal detectors in schools have saved lives. Is it pretty? No. Would it be nice to do something about the causes of that violence? Yes. But until some kids decide to stop terrorizing the other kids around them - who look just like them - it's an unpleasant but effective deterrent.
In Philadelphia, where school violence is systematically under-reported and downplayed, School Police Officers and metal detectors in schools have saved lives. Is it pretty? No. Would it be nice to do something about the causes of that violence? Yes. But until some kids decide to stop terrorizing the other kids around them - who look just like them - it's an unpleasant but effective deterrent.
29
We've gone from principals with paddles to police officers with guns. And kids seemed better behaved and they learned more back then. How is this progress?
25
The teachers and school staff can deal with any problems without the help of the police.
9
Police officers in schools reflect a desire to suppress dissent and free thought.
18
Editorial makes assertions about police effectiveness in schools and that minorities are disproportionately targeted with harsher discipline. Where's the evidence or even a reference?
Second -- the editorial offers no solutions, or no descriptions of the reality of some schools, which are in chaos. It's a nice game of pretend to assume that cop behavior is wrong and students are just kids. Some students are thugs, pure and simple.
You cannot have school if teachers can't control the classroom. If disruptive behavior is allowed and isn't stopped, let alone punished, then students who are trying to get an education, can't.
In the situation in SC, the teacher, the administrator, and the cop all asked the 16 year old girl to leave the classroom. She didn't and wouldn't. I don't know how long she'd been disrupting the class, but clearly long enough to bring in an administrator and then a cop.
At that point, what do you do? Bring in John Kerry (better yet, Henry Kissinger). Or Oprah or Dr. Phil? Do you evacuate the school room?
No, you have to physically remove her from the room. Perhaps the cop used too much force, but she also resisted, and it was her resistance that led to her being flipped.
So, beat up on the cops (once again) but in some cases only some sort of physical intervention, i.e a swift kick in the rear, works. Many of these kids come from homes where education isn't valued, so involving parents may not work. So -- what do you do?
Second -- the editorial offers no solutions, or no descriptions of the reality of some schools, which are in chaos. It's a nice game of pretend to assume that cop behavior is wrong and students are just kids. Some students are thugs, pure and simple.
You cannot have school if teachers can't control the classroom. If disruptive behavior is allowed and isn't stopped, let alone punished, then students who are trying to get an education, can't.
In the situation in SC, the teacher, the administrator, and the cop all asked the 16 year old girl to leave the classroom. She didn't and wouldn't. I don't know how long she'd been disrupting the class, but clearly long enough to bring in an administrator and then a cop.
At that point, what do you do? Bring in John Kerry (better yet, Henry Kissinger). Or Oprah or Dr. Phil? Do you evacuate the school room?
No, you have to physically remove her from the room. Perhaps the cop used too much force, but she also resisted, and it was her resistance that led to her being flipped.
So, beat up on the cops (once again) but in some cases only some sort of physical intervention, i.e a swift kick in the rear, works. Many of these kids come from homes where education isn't valued, so involving parents may not work. So -- what do you do?
36
This is activity is why the children grow up to see authority as frightening. They, the police, are creating their own monsters. And they wonder why policemen get shot. This is where your answer begins.
10
Children should never be victims of any kind of violence, including "spanking." Violence is the root of evil.
7
Schools have one job. Teach children the basic facts (multiplication, grammar, etc.) and teach them how to think.
Teachers are not social workers. We pay more than any country in the world to teach students - more money per pupil than anywhere! It's telling that we don't do a very good job. It's even more telling that most commenters and the NYTimes fault the teachers and cops, not the student.
Disruptive students used to be sent to the principal's office. We'd would never have imagined sitting at our desk saying 'no.' Would not even want to face my dad, much less a cop if I'd have acted that way.
If you really watch the video - it was the girl that started to flail and turn herself on her head. It was not racism, although the NYTimes wants you to see it that way, as does Obama. In fact, this girl hurt the learning opportunity for her classmates - many of whom were black. And they came out in defense of Fields in a protest after the fact. But that's not mentioned here either.
I disagree with most here that believe everyone should have coddled this poor girl and given her a hug. She needs access to help, but this was not a kumbaya moment. It was a moment where suspension was involved. The fact that there was none only encourages other students to misbehave and disrespect authority. Authority in our schools has been neutered - you can't suspend, expel, or fail a student that doesn't perform. Then 10 years down the road you will lament how unfair it is.
Teachers are not social workers. We pay more than any country in the world to teach students - more money per pupil than anywhere! It's telling that we don't do a very good job. It's even more telling that most commenters and the NYTimes fault the teachers and cops, not the student.
Disruptive students used to be sent to the principal's office. We'd would never have imagined sitting at our desk saying 'no.' Would not even want to face my dad, much less a cop if I'd have acted that way.
If you really watch the video - it was the girl that started to flail and turn herself on her head. It was not racism, although the NYTimes wants you to see it that way, as does Obama. In fact, this girl hurt the learning opportunity for her classmates - many of whom were black. And they came out in defense of Fields in a protest after the fact. But that's not mentioned here either.
I disagree with most here that believe everyone should have coddled this poor girl and given her a hug. She needs access to help, but this was not a kumbaya moment. It was a moment where suspension was involved. The fact that there was none only encourages other students to misbehave and disrespect authority. Authority in our schools has been neutered - you can't suspend, expel, or fail a student that doesn't perform. Then 10 years down the road you will lament how unfair it is.
26
If the parent of a child came into a classroom, asked their child to leave with them (We're late for your doctor's appointment, Johnny, put down that cellphone.) and the child refused, would we allow a parent to then grab and flip said child onto the floor? Parent's have not ceded authority to schools that exceeds what they can themselves do but I'm afraid too many parents do not realize that the schools themselves seem to think they have.
11
The Bush Administration created a huge security apparatus to "protect" us but it has been turned against us and our children.
12
I disagree. My kid's semi-suburban Atlant middle school and High School each had an officer with a K9 partner. I'll tell that that there was very little trouble on campus in either school. Additional help was also close by so when two Somalian gangs decided to fight on the front lawn they were quickly rounded up and hauled off.
Maybe it's me, but I learned respect from my parents and family, and then from my teachers. Today schools need more help.
Maybe it's me, but I learned respect from my parents and family, and then from my teachers. Today schools need more help.
13
Ryan, I can't believe you support handcuffing six-year-olds, or beating up and throwing across the room a sixteen-year-old girl for not complying with an order. If we're going to have to have police in schools, they should use de-escalation as a first, second and third level of dealing with situations. In nearly all cases, we're not talking about kids doing anything remotely near to violent behavior. And please, don't get me going about kids having an arrest record for sassing!
11
"In many places, the shift created repressive environments where educators stepped back from managing schools and allowed police officers to set the tone."
Ah, the omnipresent but always mysterious "many".
On behalf of teachers who have their hair pulled, are punched, pinched, scratched and kicked by children of ALL ages and never call in the police, let's try to keep some perspective. Each day, there are far more teachers who literally take a beating trying to provide education than there are students who suffer at the hands of teachers (or police officers). I would go so far as to say there are "many" such teachers, but I guess that is for the experts on the Times' editorial board to quantify.
Ah, the omnipresent but always mysterious "many".
On behalf of teachers who have their hair pulled, are punched, pinched, scratched and kicked by children of ALL ages and never call in the police, let's try to keep some perspective. Each day, there are far more teachers who literally take a beating trying to provide education than there are students who suffer at the hands of teachers (or police officers). I would go so far as to say there are "many" such teachers, but I guess that is for the experts on the Times' editorial board to quantify.
18
Many comments reveal a disconnect with the reality in classrooms. As a retired school employee and current sub, I am in classrooms with negligible percentages of minorities. Virtually every kid has an "Eye-phone", E-reader, I-pad, Ear-buds. Everyone of them is also aware, they are not to have them out during class time. Does that stop them- heck no! "Jonnie, Tiffanie, Justin, Myra" all ignore. They put them down for a moment and then sneak them out again; and again- and again. Every teacher and support staff in America, knows the "signal": Kids with their heads down looking in their laps. I have yet to have any Police Officer come into the classroom and extricated "these" kids out a a chair- simply because the teacher would never think of calling the police officer assigned to that school. Non compliance throughout the school day over phones, is the norm. Students with profound disabilities are also routinely dealt with- with a harsh hand of school based law enforcement. America- it isn't our children, it is the Adults who have Criminalized Childhood.
16
Why not start throwing kids in jail, just round up all the kids with low test scores and lock them up. We are building a society in America where there are not enough jobs, the Republicans feel this is a good thing. They cheer when corporations move jobs overseas for slave wages, and when they bust unions. They defend and protect the corporate loopholes that allow them to park billions in offshore accounts. I have no idea what kind of America that our corporatist, TPP loving congress and President are after, but apparently employing Americans is no longer the goal. So what are kids going to school for exactly, why test them when society has already failed them. The last refuge of scoundrels appears to be a police state, and these students could be anything, but we have already stacked the deck so much that your probably going to become a criminal or a minimum wage worker so why not throw you away before you even get a chance.
12
I cannot believe how naive many commenters here are about the reality in public schools. I have stated that the police officers mentioned in the incidents in this editorial should be charged and disciplined. They were clearly wrong.
Police should not be a part of the regular discipline process. However, let me ask those of you who are so confident that no situation at school requires the presence of the police what you would do in the following situations:
1. A student brings a gun to school.
2. A student sexually assaults another student on campus.
3. A student is selling prescription drugs to students on campus.
4. A student threatens to kill a teacher.
5. A fight between rival groups breaks out in the cafeteria involving dozens of students, damaging property, and injuring several.
6. A student pulls a knife another student in the hallway.
7. A student beats another student unconscious in class.
How are you going to "de-escalate" that? How are you going to reason your way to a peaceful solution? Are you going risk the liability of intervening physically yourself? No. You know what you are going to do? :Call the cops. These are criminal activities that take place in our nations high schools every day and they require law enforcement. If you think you can do the job without police back up, please become a teacher or a school administrator. We need police officers on high school campuses because our high school campuses are too often the scenes of serious crimes.
Police should not be a part of the regular discipline process. However, let me ask those of you who are so confident that no situation at school requires the presence of the police what you would do in the following situations:
1. A student brings a gun to school.
2. A student sexually assaults another student on campus.
3. A student is selling prescription drugs to students on campus.
4. A student threatens to kill a teacher.
5. A fight between rival groups breaks out in the cafeteria involving dozens of students, damaging property, and injuring several.
6. A student pulls a knife another student in the hallway.
7. A student beats another student unconscious in class.
How are you going to "de-escalate" that? How are you going to reason your way to a peaceful solution? Are you going risk the liability of intervening physically yourself? No. You know what you are going to do? :Call the cops. These are criminal activities that take place in our nations high schools every day and they require law enforcement. If you think you can do the job without police back up, please become a teacher or a school administrator. We need police officers on high school campuses because our high school campuses are too often the scenes of serious crimes.
16
Something is very wrong with a school system that allows police to discipline students. We have too many militarized police organizations and are they now they being used to militarize our schools?
8
We are all frightened of police and the power they have. I am never very comfortable around them even in social situations like parties. I see those around me being extremely polite and careful with their words. If you put a cop in a school that quickly changes the dynamic. Those in charge will not challenge the officer and his / her power will quickly escalate. When you are handcuffing little kids, your country stops being a democracy and freedom is truly gone.
7
I am concerned that the backlash from the SC video will be more widespread bans on student cell phones. We must demand that all police officers be mandated to wear video cameras in our schools.
3
Except in the most extreme of circumstances, cops don't belong in schools, certainly not in connection with disciplining a student who is messing with a cell phone.
If the school administration cannot handle this, then the administration need to be replaced.
If the school administration cannot handle this, then the administration need to be replaced.
13
How else are schools going to teach the rules of living in a police state?
5
I read that putting police in the schools is paid for by federal grants. If so the government itself created the problem it is trying to mitigate, and it should stop. Having special security people in schools should be a last resort. If they are absolutely necessary they should never be police. They have a different mission and they should have different requirements and training.
5
Too bad no mention of the African-American seven-year-old handcuffed the other day in a school for kicking an inanimate object. SEVEN years old!
Brutal, overreaching, police or police-like treatment is only a symptom of the deeper issue, which is our hatred and fear of children, and our need to exert complete control over them. We see this again in the wholesale drugging of perfectly healthy but 'difficult' children. Institutions call this 'chemical restraint'.
Only a shade of difference between popping a pill (carrying lifelong side effects) in a kid's mouth at breakfast and a cop's brutal restraint. Simply that one doesn't make it onto iPhone screens and TV news, and the other does.
Shocking and shameful. Children deserve better.
Brutal, overreaching, police or police-like treatment is only a symptom of the deeper issue, which is our hatred and fear of children, and our need to exert complete control over them. We see this again in the wholesale drugging of perfectly healthy but 'difficult' children. Institutions call this 'chemical restraint'.
Only a shade of difference between popping a pill (carrying lifelong side effects) in a kid's mouth at breakfast and a cop's brutal restraint. Simply that one doesn't make it onto iPhone screens and TV news, and the other does.
Shocking and shameful. Children deserve better.
9
Yet no one sees the connection between lack of classroom discipline and future job availability. Then we wonder why black students don't get hired, and the why there is disparity between white income and black income, and oh, it must be racism.
6
The violence seen in these incidents is inexcusable. Violence breeds violence.
However, the reason poor and minority children are subject to frequent discipline is simple, they are more violent ( on average ) and more disruptive than other groups. The statistics are damning.
Note which schools must have metal detectors to keep lethal weapons out. Note which schools chronically report violent attacks upon teachers & students, Note where the murder rates and beatings are highest, etc, etc.
The root cause is that these students are immersed in violence at home and in their social life. Enforcement of school conduct should not add violence to their lives.
However, there is value in making school the one place where children can feel free of fear of violence. It is impossible to maintain this state when truly disruptive and aggressive children are present. One bad student can easily corrupt the progress of an entire classroom and create an environment of fear. Further, schools cannot and should not become mental health facilities.
The well being of the bulk of children should not be sacrificed for political correctness.
However, the reason poor and minority children are subject to frequent discipline is simple, they are more violent ( on average ) and more disruptive than other groups. The statistics are damning.
Note which schools must have metal detectors to keep lethal weapons out. Note which schools chronically report violent attacks upon teachers & students, Note where the murder rates and beatings are highest, etc, etc.
The root cause is that these students are immersed in violence at home and in their social life. Enforcement of school conduct should not add violence to their lives.
However, there is value in making school the one place where children can feel free of fear of violence. It is impossible to maintain this state when truly disruptive and aggressive children are present. One bad student can easily corrupt the progress of an entire classroom and create an environment of fear. Further, schools cannot and should not become mental health facilities.
The well being of the bulk of children should not be sacrificed for political correctness.
I am shocked that Americans believe that schoolchildren today are worse than schoolchildren of the past. It was during the 1960s that some cities across the United States placed police officers in high schools as a response to student activism and racial violence. In fact, in New York City, the board of education approved of undercover cops posing as students in schools to crack down on activism and drugs. City-wide high school youth organizations such as the New York High School Student Union, High School Coalition, and the Afro-American Student Association protested against the presences of police officers in schools. If you think schoolchildren today are terrible, you have no idea how much social unrest occurred in secondary schools during the high school student movement of the 1960s and 1970s.
10
As a teacher, I believe this article is comparing apples to oranges. The idea that a disabled child of 8 or 9 would need to be handcuffed is beyond outrageous. I can't imagine any district where I've taught handling things this way. In fact, these children- especially those with behavioral/emotional disorders- are often 'accommodated' beyond reason, to the detriment of the educational environment. This goes to the recent NYT article about charter schools getting rid of 'problem students.' When the behaviors- whether organically-based or learned- go beyond the pale they must be addressed. In contrast to these horrible images of police man-handling a young woman or handcuffing a disabled 8 year old... there are many, many school where the only answer is to have security officers. I can assure you these schools would have no other students, let alone teachers, if there were no security. I saw a You Tube video yesterday that didn't surprise me at all- but would shock many not familiar with urban public schools. It showed a half dozen kids out of control in a classroom where the teacher appeared either powerless or too afraid to do anything. Some children simply can't be allowed to tear their way through schools simply to graduate with a piece of paper that will mean nothing because they can't read, write or think beyond a middle-school level.
20
When you say such police-driven policies "disproportionately affect minority [children]" you're talking about Blacks, of course, not Asians. If Asians are included in the analysis, the narrative falls apart.
Stark behavioral differences among groups exists in society, and that's reflected in public schools. It's a reality that's clear to anyone with a pulse and any intellectual honesty—but such thoughts are verboten to discuss openly.
I suggest the New York Times Editorial Board drop its anti-science, know-nothing worldview and examine the work of psychologist Richard Lynn, et al., which show clear differences between races and psychopathic personalities. Environment, institutions, and "society" can only be blamed for so much.
The fact that police are needed so often in schools with large black populations isn't the cause of these problems, but a response and solution. The amount of interpersonal violence and anti-social behavior exhibited by these students is appalling—hence why the liberal gentry (including the Obamas) send their children to homogenous private schools.
Stark behavioral differences among groups exists in society, and that's reflected in public schools. It's a reality that's clear to anyone with a pulse and any intellectual honesty—but such thoughts are verboten to discuss openly.
I suggest the New York Times Editorial Board drop its anti-science, know-nothing worldview and examine the work of psychologist Richard Lynn, et al., which show clear differences between races and psychopathic personalities. Environment, institutions, and "society" can only be blamed for so much.
The fact that police are needed so often in schools with large black populations isn't the cause of these problems, but a response and solution. The amount of interpersonal violence and anti-social behavior exhibited by these students is appalling—hence why the liberal gentry (including the Obamas) send their children to homogenous private schools.
11
This is literally how a dystopian society, like that imagined by George Orwell, will come into being. It is happening. No exaggeration. Our kids are the frogs in the slowly simmering pot of water. Bring it to a boil over a long enough period and not enough people will notice or care enough to stop it.
12
Absolutely and without a doubt. No coincidence that teens love the recent trend of those types of novels; they recognize, on some level, their real lives reflected.
3
The "type" of people doing the policing is a major factor here, in nearly all areas of such problems. Put the right people in those positions.
7
The real issue is disruptive students. We may have eliminated corporal punishment and other abusive means of discipline but we've also made it difficult for teachers and administrators to handle disruptive students.
This is the reason many middle class families, of all races, are fleeing urban school districts. It has nothing to do with race, but with avoiding disruptive students who can adversely affect your child's ability to learn.
This is the reason many middle class families, of all races, are fleeing urban school districts. It has nothing to do with race, but with avoiding disruptive students who can adversely affect your child's ability to learn.
16
What a silly and inappropriate title, "School Resource Officer" (they call them that across the country), as if they are guidance counselors or social workers. They are police or para-police (security guards), pure and simple. Why the Orwellian language?
12
What we seem to have here is not a situation where the police "protect and serve", which one would naturally assume to be the case when police officers are assigned to schools, but instead are stationed to discipline 10 year olds. This is evident by your statement that administrators have essentially turned management of disruptive children (not criminals) to the police. That was clearly the case in South Carolina. This child was manhandled and arrested for not surrendering her cell phone. I've seen real criminals in the streets of New York City arrested with less force.
So the question is, when did these "disruptive" children become more of a threat to society than actual crime in the streets, where, you know, actual criminals live? Because if we are policing schools for disruptive children, those cops are clearly not deterring any real crime, nor apprehending any real criminals, and they are obviously not keeping these children safe.
So the question is, when did these "disruptive" children become more of a threat to society than actual crime in the streets, where, you know, actual criminals live? Because if we are policing schools for disruptive children, those cops are clearly not deterring any real crime, nor apprehending any real criminals, and they are obviously not keeping these children safe.
9
Schools used to be able to suspend or expel trouble makers. Now, with school boards afraid of lawsuits, the teachers and administrators do not know what to do with the seriously misbehaving students. Hence, the police on campus. The solution is to allow school administrators to get rid of students who do not want to be there and are distractions to the other students.
15
Police make no one safer. Most people know won't call the police for anything, especially help. By and large the level of emotional ignorance among police is epidemic. As we have seen time and again even though they know they are on camera they lose all control of the situation while showing no evidence of possessing the common sense to carry a fire arm, let alone understand the human mind. Most cops are thugs and need mental help as we have now seen from countless videos.
5
The only solution - disruptive, dangerous and violent students should be expelled from school. It's not society's responsibility, not that of the rest of us, to spend inordinate amounts of money, jeopardize other students, destroy the learning environment, just to accommodate these students - because of a "politically correct" social policy. Discipline and academic rigor are essential - regardless of race.
19
School problems start and end in the home. Strong parenting, setting expectations, discipline, family culture (instead of gang culture), ethics and a place the children can really call home and family would go a long way toward fixing the school problems. Those who expect to drop out of school have no ownership in education so they can be as disruptive as they want. Blame the state, the school, the teachers, the police. Blame whomever you wish. But it all starts at home.
10
One implication of the stories of police in the classroom is that teachers and school administrators can't or don't enforce discipline in their own schools. One student can disrupt the learning of every other student. That does not mean the police need to be involved.
The editorial asserts something without any proof. That the increase of police in schools has not made the schools safer. It might be the case but seems open to evidence.
The editorial asserts something without any proof. That the increase of police in schools has not made the schools safer. It might be the case but seems open to evidence.
11
Schools and police departments nationwide should seriously rethink the practice of allowing police to physically attack or retrain or arrest students while attending school. Not only are those practices reprehensible but they also place their budgets at risk. Lots of lawyers like myself will gladly work to see the victims justly compensated.
4
What should be illegal is any conservative response to any problem. The consequences of rigid, insensitive approaches to complex problems are what we see in the examples of unimaginative policing cited in this editorial.
4
1. Police in schools have dramatically reduced gang violence in the schools during school hours over the past decades. 2. Disruptive kids should not be allowed in regular classes. 3. Physical force is often needed to control disruptive students. 4. School staff and school districts get sued for millions of dollars if they set a hand on a student. 5. Cops are immune from lawsuits if appropriate force used. 6. In almost all cases appropriate force can only be used to take a person into custody after the cop declares he is placing the subject under arrest.
14
Right on. Your comment says it all. So many people act like a stern talking-to will always work on disruptive students and there is no need ever to lay a hand on a child. I can only assume that most of them went to private schools or very nice public schools in the burbs.
In the end, we can't let a few disruptive students stop others from being able to learn. And, occasionally, but not often, force is necessary to achieve this end.
Also we need to quit acting like it's so traumatizing to have adults physically force students to stop disrupting class. If either of my sons was disruptive in class and flat out refused to stop, I'd want the teacher or principal or a police officer to remove them, forcibly, if necessary. And I wouldn't complain if they didn't go out of their way to be extra gentle.
In the end, we can't let a few disruptive students stop others from being able to learn. And, occasionally, but not often, force is necessary to achieve this end.
Also we need to quit acting like it's so traumatizing to have adults physically force students to stop disrupting class. If either of my sons was disruptive in class and flat out refused to stop, I'd want the teacher or principal or a police officer to remove them, forcibly, if necessary. And I wouldn't complain if they didn't go out of their way to be extra gentle.
9
As to your number 5 point, the force being used is inappropriate.
And Dave, please quote someone saying all that is necessary is a "stern talking-to". No one said that. You are engaging in the fallacious argument known as reductio ad absurdum. If you are not familiar with it please feel free to look it up.
And Dave, please quote someone saying all that is necessary is a "stern talking-to". No one said that. You are engaging in the fallacious argument known as reductio ad absurdum. If you are not familiar with it please feel free to look it up.
1
Yet, more and more schools and communities are chasing after government funding to add more Police/school intervention programs. When did we as a supposedly enlightened society deem the youngest citizens "worthy" of nonstop surveillance and cradle-to-the-grave law enforcement contact? We are slowly and consistently creating a society where our children are growing up with the tacit acceptance that incarceration-like environments are the norm.
5
Police state actions in our schools is only a part of the problem. We have allowed our Country to become a military/police state beyond any logical or practical need for that military/police state.
Watch a TV interview of speech by a general. He will probably be wearing a camouflage uniform. When I see a couple of GIs in public, they will often be wearing camos. Aren't camos supposed to be a battle uniform? Has there been a new tradition launched by the military to do away with normal fatigues or dress uniforms? Or are we to assume that everywhere in the world is a battle zone? As we saw in Ferguson last year our police have too closely followed suit with the military and have over militarized themselves in the process.
If we really think we need to police our schools at all times we should develop a specialized force trained to deal with kids as kids, instead of as perps.
All my life the politicians who have crusaded for smaller government have at the same time stampeded each other to prove they were not soft on crime. They passed some real stupid laws that showed they would rather be considered soft in the head than soft on crime. (Which laws have, incidentally, made government larger.)
Watch a TV interview of speech by a general. He will probably be wearing a camouflage uniform. When I see a couple of GIs in public, they will often be wearing camos. Aren't camos supposed to be a battle uniform? Has there been a new tradition launched by the military to do away with normal fatigues or dress uniforms? Or are we to assume that everywhere in the world is a battle zone? As we saw in Ferguson last year our police have too closely followed suit with the military and have over militarized themselves in the process.
If we really think we need to police our schools at all times we should develop a specialized force trained to deal with kids as kids, instead of as perps.
All my life the politicians who have crusaded for smaller government have at the same time stampeded each other to prove they were not soft on crime. They passed some real stupid laws that showed they would rather be considered soft in the head than soft on crime. (Which laws have, incidentally, made government larger.)
9
Education does require an ordered sense of self in approaching the beloved object sought . In the case of the classroom , that objective is Knowledge. The Teachers ideally are guides who enthusiastically transfer and make understandable to their charges that which Society has demanded and legally authorized on a journey required of the successful student and graduate. None of this of course works if the child presented to the School lacks an ordered sense of self worth normally gained from the coherency of parenting and family tranquility. This effort is only supplemented by early childhood programs and educational efforts of the media. The Teacher cannot replace the parenting or family values that should have been in place before the child's presence in the classroom . Order , discipline, respect for self, others, and authority when lacking in the classroom effect all present most negatively on what should be a wonderful journey of discovery. Sometimes, the few must be sacrificed to alternative paths of instruction so that the many might succeed. The fact that school safety officers are required in so many of our Schools is a terribly sad commentary on the level of early childhood parenting and its aftermath. What in fact do you do with the child that will not recognize the authority of a teacher or police officer. Do we sacrifice the few to save many or do we fire the teacher and the police officer.
5
From the education side,
- teachers should be made, once more, managers of their own classrooms, strongly backed by clear rules and supported by their administration. If don't parents don't like something a teacher does, then they should get involved.
- Schools should be controlled locally based on national standards.
- Get rid of some of the standardized testing and some of the Common Core elements I've seen. Some are really not sensible.
- Cell phones and other student-owned media devices should not be allowed in school unless provided by the school
From the non-education side...well, there's the rub. Schools have no control over what happens to their students after school hours and should not be held to account. That students bring their personal lives with them to class, for good and for bad and is a burden the school bears. Without parental involvement and teamwork with the school, I personally think public education in America as I knew and enjoyed is finished.
Probably, we should also look at how public schools are funded and admit that educating all the country's young makes a better life for the country. Why is it so hard for people to admit this?
This issue is so complicated, politicized and outside education... but I don't think policemen in schools are going to do anything good.
- teachers should be made, once more, managers of their own classrooms, strongly backed by clear rules and supported by their administration. If don't parents don't like something a teacher does, then they should get involved.
- Schools should be controlled locally based on national standards.
- Get rid of some of the standardized testing and some of the Common Core elements I've seen. Some are really not sensible.
- Cell phones and other student-owned media devices should not be allowed in school unless provided by the school
From the non-education side...well, there's the rub. Schools have no control over what happens to their students after school hours and should not be held to account. That students bring their personal lives with them to class, for good and for bad and is a burden the school bears. Without parental involvement and teamwork with the school, I personally think public education in America as I knew and enjoyed is finished.
Probably, we should also look at how public schools are funded and admit that educating all the country's young makes a better life for the country. Why is it so hard for people to admit this?
This issue is so complicated, politicized and outside education... but I don't think policemen in schools are going to do anything good.
2
Simple solution:
1: Make marijuana legal (heck, make other drugs legal too). Those who want it can easily get it.
2: Remove all police, metal detectors, and ban any adult from physically intervening when students fight, disrupt, etc (so there's never a case of inappropriate reaction should a teen punch a teacher in the face, for example).
3: Freely open charter schools who can select who they will accept into their learning environment.
See? Everybody wins!
1: Make marijuana legal (heck, make other drugs legal too). Those who want it can easily get it.
2: Remove all police, metal detectors, and ban any adult from physically intervening when students fight, disrupt, etc (so there's never a case of inappropriate reaction should a teen punch a teacher in the face, for example).
3: Freely open charter schools who can select who they will accept into their learning environment.
See? Everybody wins!
2
Since charters usually pay their teachers less and offer lower-quality education, confident that their ability to pick and choose their students will make up for the lack (since it often will), I wouldn't say that everybody wins in your scenario. Except for charter investors, I can't see that ANYBODY is winning there.
2
The US needs to solve these kinds of problems from the ground up... Look to the fundamentals. Police in schools are just a band-aid to attempt to fix something that is already broken much deeper than can be managed. Look to Sweden. The US should offer one-year paid maternity/paternity leave so parents can spend the most crucial time with their children, teaching, guiding and nurturing. As a mother of a five-month-old, (and half Swedish) daughter, I can safely say that there is no better place for babies than with their parents for the first year. Mothers and fathers in the US work just to dump their babies off at day-care or with a nanny. What are they learning from that? I should specify, what are the babies AND parents learning from that? How do parents even get to know their own children if Mom is going back to work after two months? (A two month old barely can recognize Mom and Dad at that point, if at all) How do the children, in turn, learn the mutual respect for others, parents, etc? A country like Sweden places trust in parents to raise future citizens who value and respect themselves, their peers, and their environment. But that is the style of the US - there is absolutely zero investment in the fundamentals. Pot holes in the streets?? Instead of re-doing the whole road, let's just patch up the holes until we have to patch them again next year.
3
I believe when you take on the role of teacher in a school part of your competencies must be that of being able to control and de-escalate belligerent adolescent behavior. Misbehavior in a classroom such as using your phone is not a criminal offence. It's rude and worthy of a stern talking to with consequences befitting of the violation of school policies, but calling in a police officer, really. Never in my life having in many civilized nations, have I seen police presence in schools except when living in the United States.
74
Misbehavior such as using your phone in class doesn't warrant a police response. It warrants being sent to the office.
The girl in SC was sent to the office. She refused to go.
The girl in SC was sent to the office. She refused to go.
5
When there are no consequences for misbehaving, when students have been taught to have contemp for authority, when students have dysfunction due to home environment, the teacher has no workable tools. That's like saying, hey you're a builder, you should be able to build a house and if you can't you are no good, but you don't get any lumber, nails, screws, siding, drywall, concrete bricks or land.
5
We abdicate our civic responsibilities when we turn our K-12 schools over to the adult justice/criminal system. Our youth have the civil right to evolve and grow to become adult citizens. Actions such as this take away the right of the rite of evolution of many of our youth and predetermine their future before they become adult citizens and attain the Right of self determination.
4
So let them have the choice, sit in the cafeteria and watch tv or sit in the classroom and learn.
It is the parents that should be in handcuffs for developing in these kids the anti social behavior that leads to the incidents. Discipline starts in the home. Lack of it winds up being brought to school. Lets be honest, the parents of these kids are guilty of child abuse by not providing the structure and discipline need for a kid to properly function in a learning environment. Yes, I am being 'judgmental', for it is the parents problem.
9
Which kids? The disabled Kentucky kids cited, or that high school student in South Carolina? Because there's a big difference.
1
Adults show little respect for teachers so why should students?
Violent or disruptive students have a negative affect on not only themselves but the entire class. If a teacher has to spend inordinate amounts of time dealing with defiant and disruptive students the entire class loses out. You say they should be suspended or expelled but school officials are under fire for that as well. There seem to be a million excuses for why these students behave as they do. Perhaps they should not be in regular classrooms so that those students that follow the rules can spend their time learning
Violent or disruptive students have a negative affect on not only themselves but the entire class. If a teacher has to spend inordinate amounts of time dealing with defiant and disruptive students the entire class loses out. You say they should be suspended or expelled but school officials are under fire for that as well. There seem to be a million excuses for why these students behave as they do. Perhaps they should not be in regular classrooms so that those students that follow the rules can spend their time learning
17
Let the disruptive kids watch tv in the cafeteria. They won't get an education no matter what, so they may as well enjoy themselves. The ones below thirteen years can watch educational shows, those above can watch whatever they choose.
1
I note the Editorial Board does not have any words of wisdom for teachers who have students who are acting out, refusing to be quiet, refusing to put away their phones or otherwise creating a disruptive classroom. Nor does the Editorial Board seem to have any sympathy for other students who may want to learn but are prevented from doing so by the disruptive students. Presumably, students really don't have any right to get a quality education once the disruptive students exercise their veto power. So education in public schools becomes subject to the veto of the most disruptive, narcissistic or emotionally disturbed or disabled students.
36
Anecdotes are alarming but they do not prove causality when saying police presence is not working in schools.
The fact is we have criminal behavior (i.e. drugs, assaults, disorderly conduct, rape, weapons, threats, stealing, gang activity, etc.) in schools and the age of these students has no bearing. We are a nation of laws and somehow many young people don't think it applies to them. Students who engage in these behaviors are going to work through the system over many years until they wake up and change. Many don't wake up until they end up in jail and many don't ever change because they have been raised in a gang banging household which includes fathers and grandfathers.
Let's get rid of the police are the problem attitude and realize that school is full of criminal activity that is one step away from chaos because teachers and administrators cannot and don't want to deal with it. Addressing it only triggers lawsuits, firings and charges of discrimination.
We need a serious overhaul of the K-12 system and everything needs to be put on the table.
The fact is we have criminal behavior (i.e. drugs, assaults, disorderly conduct, rape, weapons, threats, stealing, gang activity, etc.) in schools and the age of these students has no bearing. We are a nation of laws and somehow many young people don't think it applies to them. Students who engage in these behaviors are going to work through the system over many years until they wake up and change. Many don't wake up until they end up in jail and many don't ever change because they have been raised in a gang banging household which includes fathers and grandfathers.
Let's get rid of the police are the problem attitude and realize that school is full of criminal activity that is one step away from chaos because teachers and administrators cannot and don't want to deal with it. Addressing it only triggers lawsuits, firings and charges of discrimination.
We need a serious overhaul of the K-12 system and everything needs to be put on the table.
10
Trying these incidents in the court of public opinion, using selective and highly inflammatory 'descriptions' of events, is an enormous injustice that poorly serves the problems it's pretends to address.
8 years old, enabled by their tantrums, can and do cause harm and, at times, need to be restrained and controlled.
Let the government establish specific guidelines and mandate training, as it does in many industries. But know that the job of those officers is complex and should be reported on fairly.
8 years old, enabled by their tantrums, can and do cause harm and, at times, need to be restrained and controlled.
Let the government establish specific guidelines and mandate training, as it does in many industries. But know that the job of those officers is complex and should be reported on fairly.
9
Totally agree with your comment. I certainly don't know enough to pass judgment on the incidents with the 8 and 9 year olds. But sweeping statements about how no adult could possibly ever need to restrain a child are just plain wrong. I've known several families with kids that young who have severe disabilities and who go into all out rages that are frightening and dangerous to themselves and others. In one case, it took a call to 911 and two police officers to even restrain the child enough to get him in an ambulance to be taken for help. That's not to say there wasn't wrongdoing by any of these school resource officers, just that starting with broad generalizations will never effectively address complex issues.
3
I have never understood suspension as a means of punishment. You want children in school to learn, and if they are not there, they are not learning.
If a school is as frightening as some of the situations in this editorial - over-the-top violent discipline, handcuffs, small children violently restrained - then as a child I would do everything I could to be suspended. What a nightmare.
Seems like personal time and advocacy are more appropriate than further alienating a child. If, of course, you actually care about a child learning anything of value?
If a school is as frightening as some of the situations in this editorial - over-the-top violent discipline, handcuffs, small children violently restrained - then as a child I would do everything I could to be suspended. What a nightmare.
Seems like personal time and advocacy are more appropriate than further alienating a child. If, of course, you actually care about a child learning anything of value?
1
The assumption behind suspension is that it forces parents to deal with their misbehaving child, and hopefully they'll understand the significance of that level of punishment (or resent having to deal with their own children) enough to make the kid understand he or she shouldn't do something to get suspended again. Sometimes it's a faulty assumption; the parents who are on the ball enough to do that have often raised their kids in such a way that they don't get suspended in the first place.
But while a disruptive kid is suspended, learning can take place for the rest of the students.
But while a disruptive kid is suspended, learning can take place for the rest of the students.
6
Suspending very disruptive students might allow everyone else to learn.
6
As a high school teacher for 37 years, in schools across the country, I never found a student who was not manageable, as long as I carefully treated each student with kindness, respect, compassion, and affection. The line, delivered with a smile: "It's a good thing I like you," defused anger in many situations.
As far as cell phones: I told my classes that if an emergency call came through, they should quietly get up, and go out into the hall to take the call. Did some abuse this? Maybe. I didn't check because I had so few students take advantage of this permission. When I saw students fooling with their phones in class, I would smile at them and ask them to please put them away. They always complied. Treating kids with kindness, respect, and affection is much more powerful than having armed police patrolling the halls.
As far as cell phones: I told my classes that if an emergency call came through, they should quietly get up, and go out into the hall to take the call. Did some abuse this? Maybe. I didn't check because I had so few students take advantage of this permission. When I saw students fooling with their phones in class, I would smile at them and ask them to please put them away. They always complied. Treating kids with kindness, respect, and affection is much more powerful than having armed police patrolling the halls.
11
Me thinks you don't teach in the inner city.
5
Two comments about this highly troubling issue: First, I recently heard the police chiefs of two major cities interviewed on NPR. One of them observed that with the major cutbacks in most local governments' budgets for social workers, mental health services, and the like, the police and fire fighters are now the first and often only responders to troubled people and situations in our communities. In other words, the police and fire departments have become de facto substitutes for social services and mental health providers, which is not how it should be in a rational world. Likewise, with diminished and absent resources in our schools, e.g., guidance counselors, special ed teachers, and overstretched teachers, it seems that security guards have been called upon instead to deal with troubled kids and situations.
Second, I have been saddened to hear that the girl treated so viciously was in foster care. Having done volunteer work with kids in foster care, I think it is tragic that she was subjected to raw, physical force - which only reinforces the life experience from which she may have come. She has learned all too well that the world is a brutal, uncaring place, which makes her odds of success all that much dimmer. Moreover, many kids in foster care still love their families and miss them - even if wrong to do in class,she may have been texting a family member. Skilled handling by the teacher, administrator, and resource officer could have defused this situation.
Second, I have been saddened to hear that the girl treated so viciously was in foster care. Having done volunteer work with kids in foster care, I think it is tragic that she was subjected to raw, physical force - which only reinforces the life experience from which she may have come. She has learned all too well that the world is a brutal, uncaring place, which makes her odds of success all that much dimmer. Moreover, many kids in foster care still love their families and miss them - even if wrong to do in class,she may have been texting a family member. Skilled handling by the teacher, administrator, and resource officer could have defused this situation.
11
I don't think so. The teacher in this incident tried (black male teacher), then the administrator tried. Then they called the officer (I've read different accounts - some say he was a security officer that was also a coach) and he asked her to leave the class room and come with him. She would not; blatantly showing a lack of respect for all authority. Sad that she is in foster care, but that is no excuse for her behavior. Only thing they could have done is have the whole class leave the room. That's a solution? No.
7
Well put. It seems we have plenty of money for wars ('defense') and to help bail out corporations, but never enough for basic needs such as healthcare, creating jobs, affordable housing, decent education for all, childcare, eldercare, maintaining infrastructure, etc.
5
There are many more disruptive students in the schools now for various reasons such as single parent homes, violence, mental health issues, etc. And it is very difficult for teachers to teach a class with even one child like this. It disrupts everything and encourages mayhem. There needs to be way more attention to these kids. Each teacher needs better training and resources. Instead of a police officer, perhaps a guidance person/counselor, aide who will take the kids out of the classroom into a private cubicle, figure out what's really going on. These kids need one on one. Pay for more trained aides, not officers. It's simple. Remove the kids from the classes. Get individual help.
9
Until I retired in 3013 I was an attorney representing children who got in trouble with the law. Most of my clients were poor students and the majority in high school could not read at a 3rd grade level. Since they could not do the work and since the schools preferred paying for cops instead of remedial reading specialists, these kids acted out. Think about it, you are in high school and can't read well enough to understand the text books. You can't do your homework and you don't understand what is being taught in the class room. You get bored, frustrated and begin acting up. Well that is a crime in school so the cop on campus arrests you. You end up in a high school where, to get a diploma, you only have to show up at least haft the time.
Most of the children I represented who got in trouble at school, in my day and age would have been dealt with at school not by the Courts. "Cops on Campus" is a very bad idea.
Most of the children I represented who got in trouble at school, in my day and age would have been dealt with at school not by the Courts. "Cops on Campus" is a very bad idea.
1
Students do not respect their teachers in this country. When I was growing up in East Asia, not even the toughest kids would dare to talk back aloud to their teachers. In America, students beat up their teachers. Where I grew up, a teacher would never have had to even repeat her directive to any student to put away her gadget, much less require the assistance of a cop.
Teachers deserve to be respected by their students. Students deserve to learn in a non-disruptive environment. Students do not deserve to be manhandled and criminalized for common misbehavior. Police officers should not be expected to know how to handle a misbehaving child.
Parents send disrespectful children to schools and the schools react by calling in the cops. Lose, lose all around.
Teachers deserve to be respected by their students. Students deserve to learn in a non-disruptive environment. Students do not deserve to be manhandled and criminalized for common misbehavior. Police officers should not be expected to know how to handle a misbehaving child.
Parents send disrespectful children to schools and the schools react by calling in the cops. Lose, lose all around.
62
I have taught in the same Title 1 high school in NC for 18 years, and while I appreciate the issues this editorial raises, I feel it is too biased against School Resource Officers. Since our police department has had a presence in our school, drug-related offenses have dropped by 65%, we have gone from an average of three fights a week to one fight every two weeks, and the majority of our students now report that our school is a "somewhat" or "very" safe environment, compared to the 70% of students who said our school was "somewhat" or "very unsafe" beforehand.
As a teacher, it is an enormous relief not to be required to break up fights any more, especially as a petite woman, and the number of kids who show up high to my class or who are here just to deal have plummeted. Our SRO's make the time to have good relationships with our students, they are in the halls and lunchrooms every day talking to kids. Our students have such good relationships with our SRO's that most of the time they tip officers off before fights are about to occur so students can receive counseling instead of handcuffs.
I understand that some officers abuse the power they are given in schools, but please do not denigrate the incredible work that many of these men and women do for public schools.
As a teacher, it is an enormous relief not to be required to break up fights any more, especially as a petite woman, and the number of kids who show up high to my class or who are here just to deal have plummeted. Our SRO's make the time to have good relationships with our students, they are in the halls and lunchrooms every day talking to kids. Our students have such good relationships with our SRO's that most of the time they tip officers off before fights are about to occur so students can receive counseling instead of handcuffs.
I understand that some officers abuse the power they are given in schools, but please do not denigrate the incredible work that many of these men and women do for public schools.
79
I have no reason to doubt your experience, but armed police officers, especially those with no psychological or child development training, is just plain wrong if the goal of public education is the betterment and education of our nation's children (and, thereby, our nation itself).
4
And where are those kids now? In Probation School no doubt. That is why your stats are better, you got rid of the underachievers instead of helping them.
"The video that went viral last month showing a white sheriff’s deputy in a Columbia, S.C., classroom throwing and dragging an African-American student across the floor may well be indicative of a deeper problem..." the deeper problem is the Editorial Board's deep bias against the police in this country and its total ambivalence toward unacceptable behavior from students in the classroom. Please watch the whole video! That supposed young lady, she's no lady, punched the officer twice. So to force her out of her seat was in fact the proper thing to do. I guess the chief of department in his department, a man who sides with political correctness couldn't at least give due process a chance, should instruct the school district from now on if it isn't a criminal matter don't call the police. We aren't your bouncers. Which is probably what the principal wanted the officer to do just "remove" her.
The problem isn't with the police its with the way parents aren't raising their children. And perhaps this girl has no supervision at home. Whose fault is that and what about all the other students who decide they can do, say and act as they want? The schools fault? The police? Society? No it's their parents fault. Hold mom and dad accountable. And seeing as the school isn't really a public place suspend any student the posts videos on social media of others without a written consent. The officer should sue the parents of those that posted this encounter on-line.
The problem isn't with the police its with the way parents aren't raising their children. And perhaps this girl has no supervision at home. Whose fault is that and what about all the other students who decide they can do, say and act as they want? The schools fault? The police? Society? No it's their parents fault. Hold mom and dad accountable. And seeing as the school isn't really a public place suspend any student the posts videos on social media of others without a written consent. The officer should sue the parents of those that posted this encounter on-line.
6
Rob, so you think it is OK for a cop to use physical violence against a teenager who refused to turn off her cell phone and pay attention to the teacher? She was ignoring the class not disrupting the class.
2
Aside from the atrocious actions of the police officer, its clear to me that the teacher was not qualified to led a group of teenagers. A simple "could you please put the phone away " could have been enough. If she continued to defy him, He might have said "ok, we'll deal with this after class" and moved on. Then he might have either talked with her privately (which could have been enough) asked for administrative help, called the parent etc. Clearly the teacher needs training for allowing this minor incident to escalate. That such a minor event result in her being thrown across the room is a bit much. Every adult involved in this incident showed questionable judgement at best.
4
Unfortunately, what we don't see are videos of teachers and administrators hitting children with wooden boards in the 19 mostly southern states that allow corporal punishment. Not surprisingly, most of those hit are minorities and the disabled. In Florida, students in shop class make the paddles that are eventually used on them. Tens of thousands of children are beaten at school every year, some bruised for life. The defense of calling it spanking is no defense at all. It should never be the role of an educator to hit children. If there was one video of it, like the one of the police officer, a national conversation would begin.
1
Perhaps as a nation we need to get over the obsession with test scores and concentrate on classroom management and discipline so that teachers and administrators will be properly trained to handle students who are disruptive for whatever reason. This also means hiring fewer police officers and more school psychologists, social workers, and aides. As a retired teacher with almost 40 years of experience I taught an increasing numbers of special needs children. The treatment of the children described in this article is an outrage. It sickens me. It belies every value I hold as a teacher. There are better ways to calm a child down and secure compliance than handcuffs and assaults.
2
What you erroneously report as Police-Driven policy is a failure of school administrators. School administrators call the cops to eject the student the same way a bar owner calls to cops to get rid of a drunk.
The Teacher could not deal with the student, the school administrator could not deal with the student and the school security personnel could not deal with student. All the talk and reason had been tried by the professional educators. The school administration called the cops. The officer did what he was requested to do by the school administrator, eject the student. That fact that she started swinging on him as soon as he touched her probably surprised the cop as much as anyone else. Over goes the desk.
It’s the cops fault. Boloney.
The Teacher could not deal with the student, the school administrator could not deal with the student and the school security personnel could not deal with student. All the talk and reason had been tried by the professional educators. The school administration called the cops. The officer did what he was requested to do by the school administrator, eject the student. That fact that she started swinging on him as soon as he touched her probably surprised the cop as much as anyone else. Over goes the desk.
It’s the cops fault. Boloney.
8
Treating children brutally is obviously wrong and should not be tolerated but the problems that lead to police in the schools are very serious and are simply being ignored in this article. Children from distressed neighborhoods, poorer neighborhoods, regularly lose class time, instruction time, to disruptive children who distract teachers and administrators which children in more affluent school districts just do not experience. It contributes to the poorer outcomes for kids in K-12 which hurts their chances of graduating and of going to college. Not only that because they live in neighborhoods with higher crime rates and drug abuse, these occur more frequently in the schools, too. While police in schools may seem extreme, the problems which school administrations and teachers must deal are extreme, too.
3
The function of police in any society is to enforce its' laws. This is not the same as maintaining discipline in children. When the police become the fist of discipline in schools, they are reduced to being no more than goons or henchmen. They are no longer strictly agents of the law but now the tools of school staff. A school staff that is often either frightened of its' charges or of lawsuits. A school staff whose highest priority is "CYA", not that you could blame them. And so the police become the perfect tool. Able to escalate force to any level and, until recently, virtually legally untouchable. What we have forgotten, is that we are dealing with disciplinary issues and not law enforcement.
Schools are not prisons. Children are children. Police are not disciplinarians. Batons, stun guns, takedowns and firearms have no place in the discipline of children. Please let the police go back to doing the job they were trained for. Please don't allow our schools to keep teaching our children that violence is the answer.
Schools are not prisons. Children are children. Police are not disciplinarians. Batons, stun guns, takedowns and firearms have no place in the discipline of children. Please let the police go back to doing the job they were trained for. Please don't allow our schools to keep teaching our children that violence is the answer.
6
The video of the adult male police officer body-slamming a fourteen year-old girl, and dragging her out of the classroom, demonstrates two points, however unfortunate: as suggested by the article, a classroom discipline incident should never be accelerated into a police activity; and this merely serves as an example of negative intervention--introducing young teenagers to the potential for policy over-reaction.
How otherwise might we expect the young men and women of the black community to grow into adulthood, but with a negative attitude toward all police officers. That in no way builds relationships between the police department and minority communities, at large.
http://thetruthoncommonsense.com
How otherwise might we expect the young men and women of the black community to grow into adulthood, but with a negative attitude toward all police officers. That in no way builds relationships between the police department and minority communities, at large.
http://thetruthoncommonsense.com
2
Being born on the South Side of Chicago and a product of the Cihicago Public School system K-12 ,I was used to having cops in schools. But they were there primarily to protect the kids, staff and teachers from outsiders. That changed somewhat in high school as racial and neighborhood boundaries were altered and black kids were sent into white neighborhoods and new black ones leading to conflict. But again it was not an issue of school discipline and behavior. Outsiders were feared.
What is happening in American schools is the criminalization of school discipline and behavior problems. Primarily and disproportionately targeting black youth. The young lady in South Carolina was in foster care after losing her mother. She should have been receiving school counseling and the cops should have never be called in the first place. Refusing to give up your phone and to stop texting or defying your teacher is not a criminal offense. She was beaten and man-handled in the same manner as though she were a dangerous criminal or a black man like tennis star James Blake.
Even if she were a hardened criminal her rights were violated. And if her own parents had beaten and mistreated her that way, then they could have been criminally liable. America has 25% of the world prison population with 5% of Eartlhlings. Blacks who make up 13.2% of Americans are 40% of those condemned to "slavery and involuntary servitude." And it begins with black school kids.
What is happening in American schools is the criminalization of school discipline and behavior problems. Primarily and disproportionately targeting black youth. The young lady in South Carolina was in foster care after losing her mother. She should have been receiving school counseling and the cops should have never be called in the first place. Refusing to give up your phone and to stop texting or defying your teacher is not a criminal offense. She was beaten and man-handled in the same manner as though she were a dangerous criminal or a black man like tennis star James Blake.
Even if she were a hardened criminal her rights were violated. And if her own parents had beaten and mistreated her that way, then they could have been criminally liable. America has 25% of the world prison population with 5% of Eartlhlings. Blacks who make up 13.2% of Americans are 40% of those condemned to "slavery and involuntary servitude." And it begins with black school kids.
9
Defying authority and disruptive behavior isn't a crime. However.... Local police and deputies were taken aback, to say the least. during a 'dating violence and bullying' forum in my home town to learn of a school's failure to report or document various types of assault, and battery among students because the school reasoned (1) the incidents happened at school and (2) the perpetrator and victim were minors and had a right to privacy. We haven't developed the conversation among school authorities, law enforcement and students about protest and defiance that is permitted and that which is not. Students must buy into the rules the school is selling. How can they truly know what the rues are they are to comply with when authorities - both school and law enforcement - haven't figured that out.
3
As with most such incidents, the one we all saw on video was only one. If you follow sites dedicated to cop misbehavior there are MANY more videos like this one. It's just the one that - for whatever reason - caught fire and spread around the world.
I understand the fear caused by Columbine and Sandy Hook, but police in schools has not turned out to be a solution. Instead it is a major source of violence against children, and the arrest and criminalization of ordinary harmless acts by children. Tantrums of 7 year olds end in arrest. Spit balls from straws result in arrest, a school yard fight ends with a cop tazing the students without even saying one word to try and end the fight by any other means, a girl is tazed as she raises her hands outside a school in surrender (for what offense no one even knows; she wasn't doing anything but walking), and on and on. Children get criminal records, children are injured and traumatized, classes are disrupted by the police far more than the offense was disruptive. If this is not part of the definition of a police state, I don't know what is.
It is essential that, in the wake of horrors including Columbine, Sandy Hook, and 9/11, we do not sacrifice the values we are seeking to protect. Police should not be patrolling schools. If only cops were more intelligent and professional, I might have a different opinion, but the people who today function as police are not competent to protect are children. They end up victimizing them instead.
I understand the fear caused by Columbine and Sandy Hook, but police in schools has not turned out to be a solution. Instead it is a major source of violence against children, and the arrest and criminalization of ordinary harmless acts by children. Tantrums of 7 year olds end in arrest. Spit balls from straws result in arrest, a school yard fight ends with a cop tazing the students without even saying one word to try and end the fight by any other means, a girl is tazed as she raises her hands outside a school in surrender (for what offense no one even knows; she wasn't doing anything but walking), and on and on. Children get criminal records, children are injured and traumatized, classes are disrupted by the police far more than the offense was disruptive. If this is not part of the definition of a police state, I don't know what is.
It is essential that, in the wake of horrors including Columbine, Sandy Hook, and 9/11, we do not sacrifice the values we are seeking to protect. Police should not be patrolling schools. If only cops were more intelligent and professional, I might have a different opinion, but the people who today function as police are not competent to protect are children. They end up victimizing them instead.
6
our children. My typo of the day.
Why are there police in our schools? Because we've changed teachers jobs to include raising our children as well as following the curriculum. We abdicate the role of parents but demand the right to criticize and restrict the teachers span of control. Discipline is our purview, but the responsibility for a well rounded and civilized contributing citizen belongs to them. In truth, it is all our responsibility, not the board of education.
Put a cop in the classroom and some students will challenge that authority because their parents side with their little angel - who was always a good child and never caused any problems at home, except for those 15 incidents with the local police. But they would never do that...
There once was a time when the parent was responsible for the actions of their child. Parents, be careful of corporal punishment - Child Protective Services is watching.
The blame lays at our feet as parents and as citizens of this once great nation.
Put a cop in the classroom and some students will challenge that authority because their parents side with their little angel - who was always a good child and never caused any problems at home, except for those 15 incidents with the local police. But they would never do that...
There once was a time when the parent was responsible for the actions of their child. Parents, be careful of corporal punishment - Child Protective Services is watching.
The blame lays at our feet as parents and as citizens of this once great nation.
11
Private schools and charter schools (As evidenced by a recent article in The Times) expel students that are disruptive. Public schools can't do that because there is no where to expel them to.
Public schools need an alternative to the current system. I would rather see charter schools set up to give individual attention and address the needs of those disruptive students and allow the public schools to do the job of educating the majority of students who attend school to achieve a quality education.
Under such a system, there would be no need for police in the classroom. For that matter, there would be no need for private schools. Teachers would get to do what they have always wanted to do: Teach.
Everyone would get the education they need from the public education system, which is how it ought to be.
Public schools need an alternative to the current system. I would rather see charter schools set up to give individual attention and address the needs of those disruptive students and allow the public schools to do the job of educating the majority of students who attend school to achieve a quality education.
Under such a system, there would be no need for police in the classroom. For that matter, there would be no need for private schools. Teachers would get to do what they have always wanted to do: Teach.
Everyone would get the education they need from the public education system, which is how it ought to be.
6
Schools are among the most dangerous places a person can work, ask any teacher, particularly one that works in an inner city school. The video in question showed a student refusing to comply with both the teacher's and administrator's request to leave the room. She also refused to comply with the request of a law enforcement officer. So, tell me, without such officers in the schools, what do you think the result would be? I can tell you. You would have thugs running the schools instead of the adults, and students who wanted an education would be prevented from getting one. There would be mass chaos in classrooms. Don't think for one minute it would be limited to high school. It would be all schools and all grades. These kids are dangerous. I knew a teacher who had her face broken by a student. It is easy to judge by a two minute video, but there is so much more to the story.
13
Most people outside the school system are unaware that self-contained classrooms for ED and LD children are disappearing in New York City, with special needs children placed in general ed/special ed mixed classes with two teachers, regardless of the needs of the child. IEP's can't be written recommending self-contained classrooms--they are rejected. Saves money.
Even with money to separate children who really need a more restrictive environment, the right questions are not asked. Teachers and curricula are blamed for lack of motivation among students, but we need to ask "Why should students cooperate?"
Do students perceive a route to a good life through good grades that they would not have without it? That used to be the case for many. Not so much any more. For most, there is little or no real reward for hard studying, and everyone is pushed through to graduation, because that's what parents and voters want to see. Petty corruption abounds.
Do minority students see schools as an arm of an oppressive and prejudicial white power structure? Do their parents agree, even if urging them to take advantage of it? Who imagines there is really equal reward for equal work? Or equal punishment for equal infraction?
Is everyone a good candidate for an academic education? We used to have abundant manufacturing jobs for young people so inclined. Now we are without alternatives and attempt to punish children into conforming to roles inappropriate for them.
Even with money to separate children who really need a more restrictive environment, the right questions are not asked. Teachers and curricula are blamed for lack of motivation among students, but we need to ask "Why should students cooperate?"
Do students perceive a route to a good life through good grades that they would not have without it? That used to be the case for many. Not so much any more. For most, there is little or no real reward for hard studying, and everyone is pushed through to graduation, because that's what parents and voters want to see. Petty corruption abounds.
Do minority students see schools as an arm of an oppressive and prejudicial white power structure? Do their parents agree, even if urging them to take advantage of it? Who imagines there is really equal reward for equal work? Or equal punishment for equal infraction?
Is everyone a good candidate for an academic education? We used to have abundant manufacturing jobs for young people so inclined. Now we are without alternatives and attempt to punish children into conforming to roles inappropriate for them.
7
I live a block from an urban high school. On a daily basis, school kids gather from that school in the alley near my apartment to smoke 420, loiter, and mark walls with graffiti. The school has a police office inside it. That office can be very responsive when contacted. I have seen arrests happen in my alley. Were it not for that office, my call to the police would be routed through the non-emergency main number downtown and there would be a slow response, if any. The quality of life is better in the school for the police presence in school. It's better in the neighborhood too. There are surely abuses, but on balance it's a good policy.
20
Unless and until this country roots out racism from its core,we'll see more and more infractions in the schools,in the cafeteria or in public places.
Children behaving badly or politely, depends more on what they're taught at home . If most of the children going to the schools have no 'homely' atmosphere in there so called homes,with millions of Black males missing from our societies,how do we adults expect them to be normal kids.
If we incarcerate their parents in the jails for long time for minor offenses and let single mothers make ends meet by pulling two jobs,how can the mothers of those children, teach their children how to behave in the schools.
We cannot just put up blinds on our eyes and say that there is no Race issues in this country at all.
And "its all the faults of the minorities, specially the Black citizens who prefer not to work but accept the Govt. handouts. And lay the entire blame of their children's bad behaviors in the schools and the day care centers to those helpless single mothers".
But in reality we're better than that . We're a better country.
We can be a better country than everything we did before and still do.
Remember the rhetoric that we're the world's policemen . We tell the whole world how they should behave with their neighboring countries .
Yet, we cannot tell our own neighbors to accept as we're and not by the color of our skin or the different language we speak or the different Gods we pray to.
Yes this is what we really are...tkb
Children behaving badly or politely, depends more on what they're taught at home . If most of the children going to the schools have no 'homely' atmosphere in there so called homes,with millions of Black males missing from our societies,how do we adults expect them to be normal kids.
If we incarcerate their parents in the jails for long time for minor offenses and let single mothers make ends meet by pulling two jobs,how can the mothers of those children, teach their children how to behave in the schools.
We cannot just put up blinds on our eyes and say that there is no Race issues in this country at all.
And "its all the faults of the minorities, specially the Black citizens who prefer not to work but accept the Govt. handouts. And lay the entire blame of their children's bad behaviors in the schools and the day care centers to those helpless single mothers".
But in reality we're better than that . We're a better country.
We can be a better country than everything we did before and still do.
Remember the rhetoric that we're the world's policemen . We tell the whole world how they should behave with their neighboring countries .
Yet, we cannot tell our own neighbors to accept as we're and not by the color of our skin or the different language we speak or the different Gods we pray to.
Yes this is what we really are...tkb
2
This editorial begs the question: why were police invited into schools to begin with?
What problems were they there to handle that teachers and administrators could not?
What does the record show about the numbers - the statistics about the kinds of matters that they are asked to deal with?
Is this one incident typical of a police/student interaction, or an anomaly?
Let us consider again: why are the police in schools, who asked them there, and why?
What problems were they there to handle that teachers and administrators could not?
What does the record show about the numbers - the statistics about the kinds of matters that they are asked to deal with?
Is this one incident typical of a police/student interaction, or an anomaly?
Let us consider again: why are the police in schools, who asked them there, and why?
6
As a retired elementary teacher, this entire subject is a difficult one to discuss, and an even more difficult problem to solve. After last week's shocking video in South Carolina, this week's counterpoint video shows a high school student throwing a chair at a substitute teacher. Everyone I know in my profession knows a colleague who has dealt with an aggressive or violent student. At the secondary level, these students are usually (but not always) removed from the general population and sent to alternative school. However, at the elementary level, it becomes more difficult. You can't expel a third grader. But while my Tea Party acquaintances point to the recent video as proof we need more policing in schools, my take is a bit different.
Budget cuts at the state and local level have removed guidance counselors and support staff at a time when they are most desperately needed. Our counselor was so busy as "testing coordinator" and intervention person, she rarely had time to work with troubled students or give true "guidance". In addition, mainstreaming has led to cuts in services for our most behaviorally disturbed students. They are left in the gen ed classroom for years; often becoming physically violent with teachers and other students, running away. and making the classroom environment unsafe. By the time these students reach middle or high school, it is almost too late. I wish I knew the answer. I wish there was a simple fix to this complex issue.
Budget cuts at the state and local level have removed guidance counselors and support staff at a time when they are most desperately needed. Our counselor was so busy as "testing coordinator" and intervention person, she rarely had time to work with troubled students or give true "guidance". In addition, mainstreaming has led to cuts in services for our most behaviorally disturbed students. They are left in the gen ed classroom for years; often becoming physically violent with teachers and other students, running away. and making the classroom environment unsafe. By the time these students reach middle or high school, it is almost too late. I wish I knew the answer. I wish there was a simple fix to this complex issue.
63
Not knowing the particular facts of the case, I would still be quick to judge that handcuffing any school child is cruel & unusual behavior. It is also highly unusual for a police officer to be called in to handle school age misbehavior unless they are plotting to blow up the school, set fires or put other children and/or the school staff at risk of danger. I've been employed as both a Special Education teacher as well as a school counselor. Under the Individuals With Disabilities Act, children as young a preschool can already arrive at school with a special education label including autism, traumatic brain injury, severe emotional disabilities, learning disabilities, mildly to severe mentally retardation, speech or various other physical health impairments.
An elementary school usually has a minimum of one special education teacher as well as other disability specialists, school psychologist & counselors. Special education labelled children are encouraged to be placed in the least restricted learning environment possible to encourage their growth while working with specialist in particular deficit areas. Students with ADHD usually require a 504 plan which structures certain accommodations within the classroom to assist the child cope with their disability. This child should've been on a strict behavioral positive consequence driven contract, in which he earns points & bad behavior results in a time-out & removal of rewards rather than cruel punishment.
An elementary school usually has a minimum of one special education teacher as well as other disability specialists, school psychologist & counselors. Special education labelled children are encouraged to be placed in the least restricted learning environment possible to encourage their growth while working with specialist in particular deficit areas. Students with ADHD usually require a 504 plan which structures certain accommodations within the classroom to assist the child cope with their disability. This child should've been on a strict behavioral positive consequence driven contract, in which he earns points & bad behavior results in a time-out & removal of rewards rather than cruel punishment.
3
YOU are wrong. Cops on Campus are closely involved in almost every incident when a child is disruptive. If two 11 yearolds push each other on the playground, the cop is there immediately and then after deciding which one (usually the minority) is at fault either cites the child to appear in court of takes the child to Juvenile Hall. I defended children for over 15 years. I've seen it happen over and over again that children are arrested by te cop on campus for normal childhood behaviours.
1
How about special 'charter schools' just for them? It might allow the rest of the students to learn something in a class that was previously regularly disrupted. I'm a retired teacher and know what has been going on.
2
The disproportionate discipline meted out to disabled students (usually mentally disabled students) appears to be a mere pre-cursor to a heartless approach that disabled members of our society will face their entire lives.
While I am glad the Obama Administration is looking into disproportionate discipline against the disabled in our schools, which starts their difficult road to survival in America, this bias against the disabled and seniors has now been extended to Medicare. In terms of home health agencies, for example, Medicare is now paying a flat fee for care instead of a per visit or per cost of supplies fee. Thus, even though its illegal, agencies accepting Medicare patients are doing everything they can to avoid patients who need longer term care, where the agency loses money under the flat fee arrangement, while courting healthier Medicare patients who require shorter term care allowing the agency to make money. What the disabled face in school and in healthcare, all happening under a Democratic administration (and which would be worse under Republicans), is beginning to give some validity to Sarah Palin's much mocked "death panel" statement of years ago,
While I am glad the Obama Administration is looking into disproportionate discipline against the disabled in our schools, which starts their difficult road to survival in America, this bias against the disabled and seniors has now been extended to Medicare. In terms of home health agencies, for example, Medicare is now paying a flat fee for care instead of a per visit or per cost of supplies fee. Thus, even though its illegal, agencies accepting Medicare patients are doing everything they can to avoid patients who need longer term care, where the agency loses money under the flat fee arrangement, while courting healthier Medicare patients who require shorter term care allowing the agency to make money. What the disabled face in school and in healthcare, all happening under a Democratic administration (and which would be worse under Republicans), is beginning to give some validity to Sarah Palin's much mocked "death panel" statement of years ago,
2
I'm going to approach this problem from another angle. I saw a documentary on a "reform school", these kids had been kicked out of their public schools for discipline problems. Many had enrolled in this school to complete their HS education. Many were poor and minority, broken home etc. This school wrestled with this continuing problem until they noticed a change in behavior across the board after they started a farm to school nutrition program. At lunch hour they had fresh or steamed vegetables direct from their local farm. Fresh meat, milk, and cheeses. They eliminated ALL processed foods with additives and preservatives. I believe breakfast was available to any that wanted it.
Within a couple of weeks a visitor could walk down the hall and not distinguish it from any normal well behaved High school. The kids would talk and laugh at lunch and the teachers noticed the students were learning better and were not nearly as disruptive, even the hard luck cases.
They decided to bring the results to the attention of the traditional HS's and even offered to let them in on the farm to school program they had set up. It cost no more than what they were already spending on their lunch programs. The traditional high schools got push back from the vendors supplying them and even though they could offer the students higher quality nutritious food for equal money, it was torpedoed by big food companies.
Many solutions exist, police are not one of them.
Within a couple of weeks a visitor could walk down the hall and not distinguish it from any normal well behaved High school. The kids would talk and laugh at lunch and the teachers noticed the students were learning better and were not nearly as disruptive, even the hard luck cases.
They decided to bring the results to the attention of the traditional HS's and even offered to let them in on the farm to school program they had set up. It cost no more than what they were already spending on their lunch programs. The traditional high schools got push back from the vendors supplying them and even though they could offer the students higher quality nutritious food for equal money, it was torpedoed by big food companies.
Many solutions exist, police are not one of them.
60
"In many places, the shift created repressive environments where educators stepped back from managing schools and allowed police officers to set the tone, even when that meant manhandling, handcuffing and arresting young people for minor misbehaviors that once would have been dealt with by the principal."
This is the heart of the problem. School teachers and administrators have abdicated their role in discipline to the police. Police officers should be the last resort--not the first line of defense, which quickly makes criminals out of recalcitrant students.
In the case of the student in the viral video, I did not see a teacher or administrator in sight when this event occurred. Also, it's important to have teachers and administrators (and police officers) of color available to help handle these matters. They likely are far better at handling the psychology of these situations.
This is the heart of the problem. School teachers and administrators have abdicated their role in discipline to the police. Police officers should be the last resort--not the first line of defense, which quickly makes criminals out of recalcitrant students.
In the case of the student in the viral video, I did not see a teacher or administrator in sight when this event occurred. Also, it's important to have teachers and administrators (and police officers) of color available to help handle these matters. They likely are far better at handling the psychology of these situations.
4
We need discipline in the school, for sure, but we also need best practices. My son's school in Arizona has a police resource officer, but the front line for discipline at his school and other surrounding high schools here is the school security staff. In the case of a belligerent, unruly student like South Carolina's the school security staff would have attempted to remove the student. The school resource officer would only have intervened when he observed the student commit a crime, eg, assaulted the school security staff. I've been on the site council for one of my son's schools and the first step in dealing with an unruly student is to do it internally. But make no mistake, the rights and safety of all the students have to protected. Very often the youth's who are in trouble are serial offenders and a danger to the physical safety of others and must be removed from the school and when appropriate referred to the criminal justice system. Let's agree on the best practices for doing that, making sure we protect the rights and safety of all the students, teachers and staff.
1
The examples of the police brutality against students listed in this editorial are inexcusable and those officers should be charged with assault and be disciplined themselves.
However, thousands of school resource officers across the country do their jobs well and contribute to the safety and success of public schools. They are necessary on campuses -- mostly high school and middle school -- because these upper level schools are a microcosm of American Society. High School and Junior High schools these days have serious crime problems that school administrators cannot possibly address without the police. There is nothing in American Society -- not drugs, not racism, not violence, not pornography -- that our students are not confronted with on campus every day. Public schools contain organized crime, drug dealers, rapists, and violent criminals. Do you really think a half dozen school principals can handle this situation alone?
Technology, the media, selfish parenting, and societal selfishness have made schools places where the individual is more important than a healthy society. There is no doubt that individual rights, individual success, and individualism contribute to a robust and healthy society, but not if they are not balanced with a respect for the needs and rights of others. No place is this imbalance more obvious or more damaging than in public schools.
However, thousands of school resource officers across the country do their jobs well and contribute to the safety and success of public schools. They are necessary on campuses -- mostly high school and middle school -- because these upper level schools are a microcosm of American Society. High School and Junior High schools these days have serious crime problems that school administrators cannot possibly address without the police. There is nothing in American Society -- not drugs, not racism, not violence, not pornography -- that our students are not confronted with on campus every day. Public schools contain organized crime, drug dealers, rapists, and violent criminals. Do you really think a half dozen school principals can handle this situation alone?
Technology, the media, selfish parenting, and societal selfishness have made schools places where the individual is more important than a healthy society. There is no doubt that individual rights, individual success, and individualism contribute to a robust and healthy society, but not if they are not balanced with a respect for the needs and rights of others. No place is this imbalance more obvious or more damaging than in public schools.
1
As a teacher in a "tough" school, I see first-hand how discipline is or is not handled. We as teachers are expected to handle all but the physical violations (fighting, harassment), which are to be handled by security guards or our one resource office if the situation calls for it. Case in point: A fight involving over a dozen students in which one was severely hurt and several were placed in handcuffs and arrested. When teachers, including me, have worked to diffuse a situation that escalated instead, some were hurt, incurring for example a broken shoulder, a punch to the throat, or shoved against a wall. I will not risk physical harm to break up a fight any longer. Instead, I work to establish relationships with my students so we can work together more reasonable before trouble begins.
I do not agree with the "police policies' in some of our schools, especially not having a child of any age or race being thrown to the ground and dragged, but our schools have become increasingly more violent places. Where does the problem begin? In communities? In homes? With children who suffer PTSD due to the circumstances of their childhoods, or in the racial tensions that afflict so many of our communities?
I do not agree with the "police policies' in some of our schools, especially not having a child of any age or race being thrown to the ground and dragged, but our schools have become increasingly more violent places. Where does the problem begin? In communities? In homes? With children who suffer PTSD due to the circumstances of their childhoods, or in the racial tensions that afflict so many of our communities?
37
all of the above plus lack of jobs that enable the parent to not work two.
1
A big problem is the lack of specialized schools and personnel qualified to deal with students with severe disabilities. The "inclusion" movement assumes that every disabled child can be successfully educated in the regular public schools. My disabled son benefitted greatly from 3 years in a Special Education school before transitioning to a regular public school. Unfortunately, most states do not to spend the funds necessary to properly supervise and educate severely disabled students.
While working in a public school I witnessed a 5th grade student kick a teaching assistant and fracture her finger. The TA and the school's resource officer had to restrain the out of control student and have him removed by a parent. Students such as this one, with severe emotional disturbances, do not belong in regular public schools where they are a danger to themselves, fellow students, and school personnel.
While working in a public school I witnessed a 5th grade student kick a teaching assistant and fracture her finger. The TA and the school's resource officer had to restrain the out of control student and have him removed by a parent. Students such as this one, with severe emotional disturbances, do not belong in regular public schools where they are a danger to themselves, fellow students, and school personnel.
5
There is no defense for inhumane treatment of children. In the incident in the video the officer should not have been called. There should only be police involved when a student creates a situation involving violence, or threat of violence. The officer in the video instigated the violence. This is wrong.
I can understand the need for police in schools but only to respond to violent acts or threats to the safety of the teacher and other students.
Many pundits and others have defended the officer involved in the incident. There is no rational defense for a police officer to instigate violence in this situation. The child in this case put her phone away and apologized. This teacher should have resumed the job of teaching but chose instead to escalate the situation by demanding that the student leave the classroom. Was this teacher in fear for his/her life? A good teacher would have resumed the lesson and talked to the student after the class was over. The student was in the wrong and there should have been consequences but there was no need to bring in "Officer Slam".
There is clearly a problem with this school district ( and others) and there is clearly discrimination involved. This is not about cell phones or students out of control, terrorizing the classroom. This is about discrimination, racial and otherwise.
I can understand the need for police in schools but only to respond to violent acts or threats to the safety of the teacher and other students.
Many pundits and others have defended the officer involved in the incident. There is no rational defense for a police officer to instigate violence in this situation. The child in this case put her phone away and apologized. This teacher should have resumed the job of teaching but chose instead to escalate the situation by demanding that the student leave the classroom. Was this teacher in fear for his/her life? A good teacher would have resumed the lesson and talked to the student after the class was over. The student was in the wrong and there should have been consequences but there was no need to bring in "Officer Slam".
There is clearly a problem with this school district ( and others) and there is clearly discrimination involved. This is not about cell phones or students out of control, terrorizing the classroom. This is about discrimination, racial and otherwise.
39
Police are not trained in appropriate child behavior modification techniques, education or anything that should be required for school based officers. This is not to say that there are not some fantastic youth officers out there - there are.
Teachers cannot do their work and other students cannot learn - if students intimidate them, so there has to be discipline. But we certainly are not limited to a choice between treating children as criminals and complete laissez faire. Installing a cop to maintain discipline through force means the system has failed, and has to be rebuilt from the ground up. Discipline is comprised by everything that is done to keep students on track to learn, safe and healthy: if it relies solely on punishment, we are replicating prisons.
There seem to be a large number of superintendents, and principals ( vice principals, etc) who head school systems today, with little or absolutely no background in teaching or direct experience working with children. Is it possible that they seize on police as a solution because they have no better ideas, or don't want to be held personally responsible for anything?
Teachers cannot do their work and other students cannot learn - if students intimidate them, so there has to be discipline. But we certainly are not limited to a choice between treating children as criminals and complete laissez faire. Installing a cop to maintain discipline through force means the system has failed, and has to be rebuilt from the ground up. Discipline is comprised by everything that is done to keep students on track to learn, safe and healthy: if it relies solely on punishment, we are replicating prisons.
There seem to be a large number of superintendents, and principals ( vice principals, etc) who head school systems today, with little or absolutely no background in teaching or direct experience working with children. Is it possible that they seize on police as a solution because they have no better ideas, or don't want to be held personally responsible for anything?
11
The last paragraph explains it all. Schools are but one example of how officials and politicians have abrogated their responsibilities and turned to police and prisons to deal with social problems they (or their donors) don't want to address. The criminal (in)justice system has become the one-size-fits all answer to the intractable problems of poverty, racism, and income inequality that are at the root of homelessness, drug abuse, and disruptive children in schools. Declaring War on Drugs, criminalizing homelessness, bringing police into schools, and militarizing police into an occupying force with a license to preemptively kill "enemies" is preferable to addressing the root causes. Even if donors and voters were willing to spend tax dollars helping "takers," the solutions would require programs that exceed the election cycle. Officials don't want the risk of being blamed if the programs don't produce immediate results.
But even with the world's highest incarceration rate and a prison industrial complex that provides the only recession-proof growth industry not (yet) offshored, the root problems continue to worsen. How bad will things have to get before enough voters realize that we can't continue to let police and prisons deal with all our difficult social problems?
But even with the world's highest incarceration rate and a prison industrial complex that provides the only recession-proof growth industry not (yet) offshored, the root problems continue to worsen. How bad will things have to get before enough voters realize that we can't continue to let police and prisons deal with all our difficult social problems?
40
Police follow procedures to protect themselves and to control situations. There was a time when cops followed procedures as guidelines. In today's world, they behave like automatons, programed robots that follow procedures no matter what. The procedure says to handcuff suspects. These are little kids. They aren't adult suspects. The psychological trauma of placing a small child in restraints must be enormous.
I went to a rough high school. Sometimes the cops were called. They didn't put kids in handcuffs. They didn't throw them to the ground.
We are witnessing a militarization of America. Civil rights have taken a back seat to state power. Force take priority over understanding. Manners and mutual respect have been replace by hyper individualism. The public's response has been more guns everywhere, including schools. All of this has made the cops super defensive. Everyone is now a threat. The cop now uses overpowering force because anyone can kill them. Even little kids. That is their mindset.
The loss of mutual respect which is fueled by hate media, celebrity politicians, violent video games, glorification of violence in sport and street life, loss of parenting is producing violent cops that handcuff kids. We keep applying more force, keep reducing the safety net, eliminate jobs, reduce opportunity and the whole thing spirals down the hole of violence and fear.
I went to a rough high school. Sometimes the cops were called. They didn't put kids in handcuffs. They didn't throw them to the ground.
We are witnessing a militarization of America. Civil rights have taken a back seat to state power. Force take priority over understanding. Manners and mutual respect have been replace by hyper individualism. The public's response has been more guns everywhere, including schools. All of this has made the cops super defensive. Everyone is now a threat. The cop now uses overpowering force because anyone can kill them. Even little kids. That is their mindset.
The loss of mutual respect which is fueled by hate media, celebrity politicians, violent video games, glorification of violence in sport and street life, loss of parenting is producing violent cops that handcuff kids. We keep applying more force, keep reducing the safety net, eliminate jobs, reduce opportunity and the whole thing spirals down the hole of violence and fear.
77
Cops are not professional educators nor social workers nor psychologists nor counselors.
Kids with behavioral or discipline or mental health issues are not criminals. And those that are will be preferentially sent for "juvenile justice" if they are white.
We need competent unbiased professionals to "stay in their lanes" and do their jobs with our kids in and out of school
The professional educators and cops in my family keep telling me that all they see is gross incompetence at best and malevolent bigotry at worst in these situations.
Kids with behavioral or discipline or mental health issues are not criminals. And those that are will be preferentially sent for "juvenile justice" if they are white.
We need competent unbiased professionals to "stay in their lanes" and do their jobs with our kids in and out of school
The professional educators and cops in my family keep telling me that all they see is gross incompetence at best and malevolent bigotry at worst in these situations.
2
As another commenter noted, part of the problem is the slashing of school budgets and services that provided more individual attention for students with learning and behavioral issues. I wonder how much it costs to have these "resource officers" (there's an Orwellian term for you) and why this money cannot be put back into children-centered services by appropriate educational professionals.
3
People may not remember back to the time before police roamed the halls of schools. Growing up on the upper west side of manhattan in the 1960s - before Starbucks and The Gap - there were some dangerous schools. Teachers were getting knifed. Kids were beaten/shot/stabbed by fellow students. And teachers and administrators were powerless to stop predator students. That's the initial reason for police presence in schools, metal detectors etc....
I am NOT in favor of removing police from schools. Let's face it, when a teenage bully breaks the nose of weaker underclassman, it's assault. And should be treated like assault.
What SHOULD happen is far better training and understanding over what is a police matter - both for teachers/administrators and police. Is using a cell phone criminal? Then don't call in the cops. Is someone overturning desks and threatening the well-being of other students? Yes, call the cops.
And once the cops are on the scene, they seem to have a penchant for escalating to obscene levels. This needs to stop.
I am NOT in favor of removing police from schools. Let's face it, when a teenage bully breaks the nose of weaker underclassman, it's assault. And should be treated like assault.
What SHOULD happen is far better training and understanding over what is a police matter - both for teachers/administrators and police. Is using a cell phone criminal? Then don't call in the cops. Is someone overturning desks and threatening the well-being of other students? Yes, call the cops.
And once the cops are on the scene, they seem to have a penchant for escalating to obscene levels. This needs to stop.
13
The police weren't called because the student was using a cellphone. The police were called because the student refused to follow the teacher's instructions. Ultimately, you've got to have some way to enforce discipline. Otherwise everyone else in the classroom suffers.
4
Employ school security staff and have them be the front line for discipline. Keep the cops, but keep them in the background unless necessary.
Police officers were initially placed in schools throughout the country due to the increasing number of mass shootings...to act as a deterrent to the sick and deranged who seek to harm our children.
It was my understanding that any discipline, regarding an individual student, would be conducted by the parents, teachers and principle, not the officer. Somewhere along the way, lines have gotten blurred, thus the incidents we are now hearing about.
A review, and reconsideration of just where those lines are drawn between officers and students needs to be made more clear, so that everyone is on the same page. Our children are already afraid to go to school due to mass shootings. The last thing they need is to be afraid of is the guy in the uniform, who is supposed to be there to protect them.
It was my understanding that any discipline, regarding an individual student, would be conducted by the parents, teachers and principle, not the officer. Somewhere along the way, lines have gotten blurred, thus the incidents we are now hearing about.
A review, and reconsideration of just where those lines are drawn between officers and students needs to be made more clear, so that everyone is on the same page. Our children are already afraid to go to school due to mass shootings. The last thing they need is to be afraid of is the guy in the uniform, who is supposed to be there to protect them.
9
When I was studying for my degree in education in the 1980s, the idea that informed every teaching method and classroom management technique was that the school was there to serve the children. Order and discipline were necessary, of course, to provide them with a safe and productive environment in which to spend their days and learn, but were not ends in themselves. These days, it looks more like schools are preparing children for life in a police state. Surveillance cameras and microphones record their actions and conversations on the bus as well as in class. Biometric scanning is used for everything from entering the school to paying for lunch. Detention has become an everyday disciplinary method, even for the most minor infractions. Classroom and playground misbehaviors that are normal in childhood are treated as crimes.
Police officers are not, to my knowledge, trained in child development or appropriate disciplinary methods that allow children to learn from their mistakes and grow into healthy, independent, and responsible people. That's not their job. Rather, they know how to use authority and force or the threat of it to gain compliance from people and control their behavior. Their presence in schools changes their character, from nurturing, child-centered places to authoritarian institutions. I believe that is a profound mistake.
Police officers are not, to my knowledge, trained in child development or appropriate disciplinary methods that allow children to learn from their mistakes and grow into healthy, independent, and responsible people. That's not their job. Rather, they know how to use authority and force or the threat of it to gain compliance from people and control their behavior. Their presence in schools changes their character, from nurturing, child-centered places to authoritarian institutions. I believe that is a profound mistake.
14
Some people who don't know much about schools seem to think that teachers should be able to handle any disciplinary problems. This is unrealistic - their primary mission is to teach and many are simply not able or inclined to deal with extreme discipline problems. A few or even one disruptive student can bring learning to a halt in a classroom.
Just as teachers are trained to teach, it may be necessary to have personnel in schools who are trained to apply extreme discipline when necessary. The Columbia deputy either did not have such training or disregarded it. Ordinary training for police or sheriff is mostly aimed at adults, not children. Of course in some schools there may be actual felonious activity such as drug dealing and weapons possession. And teachers must be able to deal with behavior which is prohibited but not disruptive, such as simple possession of a cell phone (without actually using it), hopefully without calling in outside help.
Just as teachers are trained to teach, it may be necessary to have personnel in schools who are trained to apply extreme discipline when necessary. The Columbia deputy either did not have such training or disregarded it. Ordinary training for police or sheriff is mostly aimed at adults, not children. Of course in some schools there may be actual felonious activity such as drug dealing and weapons possession. And teachers must be able to deal with behavior which is prohibited but not disruptive, such as simple possession of a cell phone (without actually using it), hopefully without calling in outside help.
4
I taught public school in Brooklyn. No cops. Just teachers. We did fine. We certainly had no need or cause to brutalize passive withdrawn students grieving over the recent loss of a parent.
7
Police do not belong in schools. Their training is very different than that of educators. I taught for 35 years and rarely saw problems that needed police intervention. Part of the problem is appointing administrators with very little classroom experience and zero- tolerance policies. When you have been in the classroom for several years you learn to de-escalate problems and to not let minor issues become major problems. Police are used to a my way or the highway approach that can create problems.
86
We sit by idly as the military-industrial complex penetrates and permeates our towns, schools and homes with their rules, modes and arms.
27
Hi, I live in the same town you do. I also saw the same IKE scene in JFK 20 years ago that you are paraphrasing. Get a grip.
We are very lucky for now. Our kids for the most part are very well off and have opportunities most children can't even imagine. However, as society continues to enable this lack of respect for authority among young people, our luck will eventually run out. We will start to see the same problems in our town. We must control our schools so teachers can do their jobs and all students have the opportunity to learn. I'm for whatever it takes to get that done.
We are very lucky for now. Our kids for the most part are very well off and have opportunities most children can't even imagine. However, as society continues to enable this lack of respect for authority among young people, our luck will eventually run out. We will start to see the same problems in our town. We must control our schools so teachers can do their jobs and all students have the opportunity to learn. I'm for whatever it takes to get that done.
1
So if I'm reading correctly, you think it is OK for students to be disruptive and violent in the classroom with no repercussions?
3
What we are seeing here, in classrooms, is a microcosm of society. We're losing respect for all forms of authority, for police officers, teachers, politicians and even parents. Parental involvement in their childs education is often seen more as confrontational than cooperative. I've spoken to several veteran teachers lately and to a person they would not recommend teaching as a vocation. To the contrary, the only reason they are still teaching is their upcoming retirement and pension. They understand completely the turnover of young teachers, who have decades of dysfunction to look forward to if they remain.
11
The only problem with the officer in SC was that he went too easy on the student. Where is the concern for the civil rights of the other students in the classroom and the teachers and administrators who are trying to do their jobs?
Letting students behave like animals has never been an answer and can't be one now. We need far greater discipline and enforcement in our schools to make sure every child has an equal opportunity to learn.
Letting students behave like animals has never been an answer and can't be one now. We need far greater discipline and enforcement in our schools to make sure every child has an equal opportunity to learn.
7
Without the facts about what that young girl was actually doing with her phone that caused the teacher to summon the police, statements like this contribute nothing to the discussion. For instance, if that girl was simply texting while in class there would have been no reason for a police officer to be involved, period. Give some thought to your comments if you want them to be taken seriously.
He went "too easy" on the girl? Really? Should he have pulled his gun? A balky teenager is no excuse for a violent assault, which is what is shown in that video.
Thats right, handcuff an 8 year old student and yell at him that he has to have "personal responsibility". This doesn't even work with kids without special needs. Actually, if the parents did this, it would be child abuse.
Get police out of the schools.
Get police out of the schools.
11
If the parents disciplined their child, the police would not have to. When parents don't discipline their children it is a form of child abuse.
1
The police are once again left to deal with the mess created by progressive politicians and bureaucrats. The so called "mainstreaming" movement whereby children with behavior and mental health issues are placed in regular classrooms, robs the majority of kids of their right to a quality learning environment. A child with a mental disorder that prevents him from following instructions, does not belong in a regular classroom. The Editorial Board decries the fact that children with mental health issues are suspended at a higher rate; is this really shocking? In NYC the police were put in schools; in some cases with metal detectors at the doors, because students were bringing guns to school. The vast majority of these metal detectors were placed in schools with a high African American population. Why? because white students generally weren't carrying guns. Lets take an honest look at the underlying social causes of these problems and stop focusing on useless statistics.
10
Yes. The white students don't bring a gun to school until they are planning to kill a few dozen of their classmates and teachers. I went to a high school in the Bronx where there were metal detectors and all it did was make everyone late for class. The few students who were inclined to carry weapons, usually box cutters and small knives, just left them hidden behind the school until they got through security. Honestly, those most prone to violence and mayhem didn't bother to show up for school and conflicts inside the school were usually limited to the parties involved.
This attitude that African American students are so prone to violence that our schools should be turned into pseudo-prisons is racist and hypocritical given that pretty much all of the mass shootings in schools and society are perpetrated by whites who kill innocent people they have no prior grievance with.
This attitude that African American students are so prone to violence that our schools should be turned into pseudo-prisons is racist and hypocritical given that pretty much all of the mass shootings in schools and society are perpetrated by whites who kill innocent people they have no prior grievance with.
1
There is another side to police in schools. The school administration and teachers have stepped back from discipline. They don't do it. They use the police *instead* not in addition to their own efforts.
Why? Because they were getting complaints. Rather than face up to discipline issues, they ducked and outsourced.
Why? Because they were getting complaints. Rather than face up to discipline issues, they ducked and outsourced.
18
Well, that's one possible explanation but here's an alternative. Class size increases but doesn't always come with an increase in resources. Sometimes there are more kids assigned to classes than there are desks in the room. Sometimes there are not enough textbooks for each kid to have one. More kids with disabilities or special needs are mainstreamed, partly because schools cut back on special ed or resource teachers, to hold down costs. Teachers' aides are pretty much gone. There are more standardized tests to give, so that the teacher can be certified as "qualified" based on the kids' scores and the school won't be labeled a "failure", which results in withholding more school funds for the next year. Now public schools have to compete with charters for students with fewer complex problems to deal with. So perhaps, teachers and principles have stepped away from discipline or perhaps perpetual budgets cuts, criticism, and lack of support is just another step in abandoning our children and blaming someone else.
1
So you think it should come down to a teacher fighting a student?
The role of the teacher in the South Carolina child abuse case -- where the white "school resource officer" dragged the African-American child -- has yet to be fully examined.
The teacher wanted the African-American child to stop using her cell phone, but from the looks of things many other students in the same class were likely using there cell phones. Otherwise, how do you explain the quick reaction of students to video the heinous behavior of school officials and the "school resource officer." Look at the role of the teacher and the teacher's record on disciplining students.
The teacher wanted the African-American child to stop using her cell phone, but from the looks of things many other students in the same class were likely using there cell phones. Otherwise, how do you explain the quick reaction of students to video the heinous behavior of school officials and the "school resource officer." Look at the role of the teacher and the teacher's record on disciplining students.
17
Spring Valley High School students, most of the black, staged a walkout to protest the firing of the police officer. Their reaction is easy to explain. They sided with the police officer against the disruptive student who decided she was above school policy regulating classroom behavior.
3
The problem is not that there are more police officers in schools. The problem is that they are needed there in the first place. When students openly defy every person in authority, it demonstrates that there's been a complete breakdown. Authority is no longer recognized. When this happens systems no longer work. It's only natural that enforcement would get stepped up as normal disciplinary measures fail, but that opens the door to all kinds of additional problems.
Whether the disregard of authority comes from a lack of it in the home or elsewhere, it is becoming impossible to manage, police, etc., a population that completely disregards rules, laws, etc.
Whether the disregard of authority comes from a lack of it in the home or elsewhere, it is becoming impossible to manage, police, etc., a population that completely disregards rules, laws, etc.
78
The problem has arisen because of excessive interference of parents in schools. We parents have tied the hands of educators by throwing lawsuits at them for the smallest disciplinary actions. I am not condoning violence, but the fear of getting rapped on the knuckles kept children in check in schools during my days. we probably had one student a year in a class getting punished for lack of discipline and that caused other students to stay disciplined and respect their teachers. A 10 year old being asked to stand on the bench holding his ears for disrespect or unruliness will stop such behavior for a long time..
4
You mean like disregarding the authority of the IRS, or BLM officers enforcing the rents on cattle grazing, or the authority of a legitimate election?
There has been a breakdown of respect for authority, most of all the respect for the authority of the Constitution and the Federal government that Constitution established, by tea partistas and fascist republicans.
We need police in schools because we have made it far too easy for troubled and criminal minds to have access to weaponry.
Lack of respect to authority began a long time ago and has been perpetuated by right wing politics ever since.
There has been a breakdown of respect for authority, most of all the respect for the authority of the Constitution and the Federal government that Constitution established, by tea partistas and fascist republicans.
We need police in schools because we have made it far too easy for troubled and criminal minds to have access to weaponry.
Lack of respect to authority began a long time ago and has been perpetuated by right wing politics ever since.
The schools eliminated the school psychologists, school social workers and counselors who helped kids in the past to pay for school police.
Tough subject to arrive at the correct plan of action.
Do school districts respect the rights of students to have a classroom environment conducive to learning or do the rights of the disruptive individual with learning difficulties (generated from socio-economic conditions) rule the day.
I spent 2years as a substitute teacher covering 14 levels of learning.
My experience convinced me - NO AMOUNT OF LOCAL AND FEDERAL SCHOOL MONEY can directly solve the root causes of disruptions N the classroom. Rich school districts having broad house incomes into poverty levels have proven that; no politician has the guts 2 speak the truth N the matter.
Problems are linked to socio-economics.
PROBLEMS IN EDUCATION TODAY LAY OUTSIDE THE FENCELINE OF THE SCHOOL SYSTEM - Sadly it is in the home.
When problems from home disrupt the learning environment, & that should be the bottom line here,
THE DISRUPTION OF THE LEARNING ENVIRONMENT
... district policy & school officials should be able 2 respond immediately 2 disruptions & return control & focus of the classroom to the teacher.
2 do less is to steal a piece of the future from other students & contribute 2 the decline in our society.
As one teacher said, ”If today’s student is the direction of where America is headed, I will cut my wrists, ...I will cut my wrists.”
Police in schools ARE A MUST.
Today they R the other side of the coin 2 maximized learning & great teachers.
Who bleeds.... teacher, student or country?
Do school districts respect the rights of students to have a classroom environment conducive to learning or do the rights of the disruptive individual with learning difficulties (generated from socio-economic conditions) rule the day.
I spent 2years as a substitute teacher covering 14 levels of learning.
My experience convinced me - NO AMOUNT OF LOCAL AND FEDERAL SCHOOL MONEY can directly solve the root causes of disruptions N the classroom. Rich school districts having broad house incomes into poverty levels have proven that; no politician has the guts 2 speak the truth N the matter.
Problems are linked to socio-economics.
PROBLEMS IN EDUCATION TODAY LAY OUTSIDE THE FENCELINE OF THE SCHOOL SYSTEM - Sadly it is in the home.
When problems from home disrupt the learning environment, & that should be the bottom line here,
THE DISRUPTION OF THE LEARNING ENVIRONMENT
... district policy & school officials should be able 2 respond immediately 2 disruptions & return control & focus of the classroom to the teacher.
2 do less is to steal a piece of the future from other students & contribute 2 the decline in our society.
As one teacher said, ”If today’s student is the direction of where America is headed, I will cut my wrists, ...I will cut my wrists.”
Police in schools ARE A MUST.
Today they R the other side of the coin 2 maximized learning & great teachers.
Who bleeds.... teacher, student or country?
11
For some reason, we've gotten into the habit of handing off the responsibilities of individuals to the government. This is the outcome. Eventually, like a hot potato, someone is forced to deal with the individual's problem.
The government is a poor authority figure and an even worse disciplinarian. Schools are not parents, nor should other students and teachers be expected to become them and impose order where there is none.
Who is speaking up for the students who don't disrupt and are interested in getting an education? What are their rights? Every time discipline is meted out, enablers fight it. Look at the criticism Success Academy, a NYC charter school, is receiving for disciplining students. One bit and threw things. The parents were showcased in The Times as victims of an unfair system.
The government is a poor authority figure and an even worse disciplinarian. Schools are not parents, nor should other students and teachers be expected to become them and impose order where there is none.
Who is speaking up for the students who don't disrupt and are interested in getting an education? What are their rights? Every time discipline is meted out, enablers fight it. Look at the criticism Success Academy, a NYC charter school, is receiving for disciplining students. One bit and threw things. The parents were showcased in The Times as victims of an unfair system.
13
The perceived problem with Success Academy was that the school was attempting to avoid dealing with the disruptive students, getting them to transfer to the public system, where they had to be accepted. There is no doubt that some of the improved records of charter schools (whose few who do have better records) is due to their ability to avoid students who pose discipline problems.
There is nothing about private schools that makes them inherently better at discipline than government schools.
There is nothing about private schools that makes them inherently better at discipline than government schools.
12
Success Academy was not critisized for its dicipline policy, rather, it was for a "to go" list, later described as an "anomaly" by the Success administration. It's existence. however, violated and circumvented the procedures and laws (vis-à-vis CSE and 504 regulations) for the placement of children with special educational needs. Those laws are in place to clearly and legally identify that so-called "biter"or "chair pusher" in the article as a student with special needs as opposed to an academically weak student having immature responses to the limited range of pedigological strategies employed in that classroom. The parents, in that case, may well be victims if those laws are not applied evenly and correctly.
Futhermore, the comments regarding that article focused little on the discipline part of the story as opposed to the fact that Success Academy's test scores are being touted as exemplary relative to the NYC schools in general. If Success Academy wants to be an elite school academically such as The Taft School or militarily such as The Citadel that is fine however, just don't masquerade as a public school prepared to meet the needs of all students when, in fact, they are neither willing or able to
Futhermore, the comments regarding that article focused little on the discipline part of the story as opposed to the fact that Success Academy's test scores are being touted as exemplary relative to the NYC schools in general. If Success Academy wants to be an elite school academically such as The Taft School or militarily such as The Citadel that is fine however, just don't masquerade as a public school prepared to meet the needs of all students when, in fact, they are neither willing or able to
There is something very wrong the our culture if police is needed to maintain order in schools. How far will it go? Do we want to or need to live in a police state?
Without a doubt there is a severe discipline problem in the schools that simply didn't exist 50 years ago. It doesn't exist in most European and Asian countries. It is the main obstacle to education of kids in poor neighborhoods. Police is not a solution there nor should it be here.
Without a doubt there is a severe discipline problem in the schools that simply didn't exist 50 years ago. It doesn't exist in most European and Asian countries. It is the main obstacle to education of kids in poor neighborhoods. Police is not a solution there nor should it be here.
17
How come that other advanced countries do not have police in their schools, despite the fact that they most surely also have 'disruptive' children? If a teacher or principal can't handle that behaviour they are should never be allowed to be in these professions in the first place.
Our violent culture of police brutality, especially against minorities, indeed makes us very, very 'exceptional' as the land of the not so free and not so brave.
Our violent culture of police brutality, especially against minorities, indeed makes us very, very 'exceptional' as the land of the not so free and not so brave.
202
The first thing to look at is how much money is spent to ensure that the schools are properly staffed and supplied. We leave our teachers in overcrowded classrooms, with no-one to turn to in the case of an emergency - or even just a 'disruptive' student. We don't pay them well, and we ask them to work in conditions that most of us would not tolerate. They are burnt out and beaten down by the system. Another aspect - exacerbated by over-crowding and understaffing - is not allowing kids the room to be kids. Forget about disabled or special needs students for a minute, just think about the standard, impulsive, scatter-brained American teen/tween - we are expecting them to be and do things that many adults wouldn't react well to, and then punish them for having poor impulse control and judgement. That's the definition of a teenager - poor impulse control and judgement!
No, kids should not be texting, tweeting, and facebooking in class, but we shouldn't make a -literal- federal case out of it if one doesn't follow the rules. One of the issues here is the mixed messages that kids get about use of electronics - teachers HATE them in the classroom, but parents and some administrators want them to have them 'in case of emergency.' Somehow, most of us survived not having an electronic tether in the 60s, 70s and 80s, but it's become a necessity today... Give clear rules, and enforce them reasonably.
No, kids should not be texting, tweeting, and facebooking in class, but we shouldn't make a -literal- federal case out of it if one doesn't follow the rules. One of the issues here is the mixed messages that kids get about use of electronics - teachers HATE them in the classroom, but parents and some administrators want them to have them 'in case of emergency.' Somehow, most of us survived not having an electronic tether in the 60s, 70s and 80s, but it's become a necessity today... Give clear rules, and enforce them reasonably.
2
One reason that other countries don't have police in their schools is that students are not likely to have access to guns. When the whole craze about police in schools started, papers were full of stories about gang warfare in schools and life-threatening attacks on teachers. Now that the students don't carry dangerous metal objects to school anymore, the police are given different functions. A chief function seems to be to attend to 'normal' disciplinary issues, which have been made worse by forcing schools to 'mainstream' just about everyone without providing the necessary money to do so. I am very much reminded of the movement to release people from mental-hospital incarceration without providing the community treatment centers that the freshly-released needed. So now a large number of mental patients is confined in regular prisons. The only reason why this does not work in the schools is because you have parents, teachers, and fellow students who won't go along with a police solution to individuals' mental problems.
1
In Japan, they don't need police officers in their schools because Japanese students respect their teachers. They have been taught to do so by their parents.
If a teacher ask a student to put away her gadget, she puts it away. Right away. No need for police.
If a teacher ask a student to put away her gadget, she puts it away. Right away. No need for police.
4
Police officers shouldn't necessarily be expected to know how to handle a child with behavioral disabilities, although given their assignment to a school a little training should be expected. But where was the teacher with the training to deal with these kids effectively; the teacher that knew these kids and their issues.
What? Let go? Last year? Budget cuts?
Oh, I see.
What? Let go? Last year? Budget cuts?
Oh, I see.
26
Clearly, the so-called "Ferguson effect" is America waking up to the harsh reality of the excessive use of police force when it is unnecessary and inappropriate. Let's not make excuses and play the blame game that there really are bad students. What we are seeing across the nation are students being mugged by those supposedly trained in the credo of "law and order." The videos show needless deaths and assaults on innocents with no regard for the dignity and respect every individual, especially our children, demands from those trained and sworn "to serve and protect."
26
Uh, but there really are bad students. That's not an excuse. Assaults, robberies, and lots of other violent crimes happen in schools, far too often. Should they be addressed with a stern talking to rather than an arrest because they happened in a school rather than somewhere else? What people try to minimize as a "schoolyard scuffle" would often be assault and battery if it happened elsewhere.
1
The real "Ferguson effect" is shifting the blame from the people who cause the problems to the ones who are trying to solve them
Please, cut me a break.
This long term level of disrespect shown to authority can only be expected to return an increase in what you call "muggings."
People trained in how to enforce law and order are no different from other people and have limits to how much and long disrespect is directed to them before they slip-up.
Classroom behavior is ignored by the general public in favor of playing the civil rights card at the risk of reducing the education 2B gained by the rest of the classroom.
Stop telling police and teachers to work in another profession after they loose it.
Want to help reduce the "muggings"?
Begin to campaign for OBEY THE LAW (plus teachers) AND ALWAYS, ....A-L-W-A-Y-S ... follow the direction given to you by an officer of the law.
Such a campaign will go a long way in teaching the future generation who in society will be there to protect them when called upon, 24/7 and who are the people in society that are investing their lifetime to help them learn.
This long term level of disrespect shown to authority can only be expected to return an increase in what you call "muggings."
People trained in how to enforce law and order are no different from other people and have limits to how much and long disrespect is directed to them before they slip-up.
Classroom behavior is ignored by the general public in favor of playing the civil rights card at the risk of reducing the education 2B gained by the rest of the classroom.
Stop telling police and teachers to work in another profession after they loose it.
Want to help reduce the "muggings"?
Begin to campaign for OBEY THE LAW (plus teachers) AND ALWAYS, ....A-L-W-A-Y-S ... follow the direction given to you by an officer of the law.
Such a campaign will go a long way in teaching the future generation who in society will be there to protect them when called upon, 24/7 and who are the people in society that are investing their lifetime to help them learn.
1
Alas, this is a situation that has been decades in the making. One would have to swim far upstream to identify and repair to root causes. Today's school children and their 20- and 30-something parents have grown up with little discipline or respect for authority. The parents can't teach this to their children as many haven't themselves received this kind of upbringing. The parents don't back the teachers up so of course the children act out with impunity. Having said all this, it is wrong to substitute a system that was designed to deal with adult offenders (the police) as a solution. Frankly, I don't know if there even is a solution anymore.
4
So easy, Mr. Racoon, to see the "problem" in terms of the talk-show frame of the day: no discipline! hand-out classof people! breakdown of authority!!
Easily generated, overly shared opinions that reinforce themselves with every statement.
However, Mr. Racoon, this doesn't make accurate, helpful or useful. You just get to rock back on your easy chair!
Easily generated, overly shared opinions that reinforce themselves with every statement.
However, Mr. Racoon, this doesn't make accurate, helpful or useful. You just get to rock back on your easy chair!
A Los Angeles city councillor recently lamented that in no civilized country should pre-school be more dangerous than police work. He was referring to gun violence, not police brutality. In our exceptional land we now have both.
What this says about the nature of childhood and schooling in our homeland disturbs me. The State of Michigan is now debating whether open or concealed carry of guns should be permitted in its schools. No consideration is allowed for the options of no-carry or local district discretion.
We might rightly wonder about the future of a nation where its school children come to know their homes and halls of learning as fearful armed forts bristling with firearms from without and within.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
What this says about the nature of childhood and schooling in our homeland disturbs me. The State of Michigan is now debating whether open or concealed carry of guns should be permitted in its schools. No consideration is allowed for the options of no-carry or local district discretion.
We might rightly wonder about the future of a nation where its school children come to know their homes and halls of learning as fearful armed forts bristling with firearms from without and within.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
14
The office in the video was perhaps more forceful than he needed to be, but I am curious as to where exactly others would draw the line. Exactly how much physical force is "appropriate"? If police officers have been invited into schools to help maintain order, we should not be too surprised when they they use the methods they have been trained in. If we decide the use of physical force unacceptable, then schools must find ways of managing unruly or violent students themselves. You can't have it both ways.
13
The student was not violent. She used her phone. Then she put the phone down. If a teacher can't handle this minor infraction, he should not be teaching.
5
I grew up in a state that prohibited physical punishment of children. We did just fine--and we all knew that no one was allowed to hit children. We were not angels, but our teachers didn't outsource discipline to cops. If a teacher and a principal cannot handle a student who is texting on her phone without calling in a cop, they should be fired. They have flunked classroom management 101. This wasn't a fight; this wasn't someone screaming at someone else; this was a child who had recently been orphaned and was living in a foster home texting.
3
There is no reason for police officers, nor metal detectors, in public schools. If you want those sorts of things, put your child in private school.
If a student is being disruptive, brings a weapon to school, etc, simply give that student an extra homework assignment. If they are a repeat offender, then perhaps take a point off their grade average.
For the students who find that their education is being negatively impacted by disruptive students, simply give them vouchers to attend charter schools.
Then everyone is happy - those who want to learn go to a school where learning is supported. Those who want to disrupt others go to a school where that is acceptable.
If a student is being disruptive, brings a weapon to school, etc, simply give that student an extra homework assignment. If they are a repeat offender, then perhaps take a point off their grade average.
For the students who find that their education is being negatively impacted by disruptive students, simply give them vouchers to attend charter schools.
Then everyone is happy - those who want to learn go to a school where learning is supported. Those who want to disrupt others go to a school where that is acceptable.
2
Charters are usually worse schools. Why should good students have to leave superior schools and go to inferior ones in order to avoid disruptive students?
And do you really think disruptive, criminal students are going to do an extra homework assignment? Do you really think they have grades that can be reduced? The choices are to remove those kids or to let them disrupt others' learning. We can hope that, after they're removed, they can be given some help to try to learn how to behave, but giving more homework as an inadequate consequence to a kid who probably ignored the homework he already has is going to accomplish exactly nothing.
I really hope you're trying and failing to make a point with irony, because your comment seems hopelessly clueless. What we should be trying to do is to make public schools places of learning that are welcoming to students who want to learn. That's probably going to mean removing a few kids that make that environment impossible to achieve. Those are, actually, precisely the sort of kids that charter schools were originally intended to serve.
And do you really think disruptive, criminal students are going to do an extra homework assignment? Do you really think they have grades that can be reduced? The choices are to remove those kids or to let them disrupt others' learning. We can hope that, after they're removed, they can be given some help to try to learn how to behave, but giving more homework as an inadequate consequence to a kid who probably ignored the homework he already has is going to accomplish exactly nothing.
I really hope you're trying and failing to make a point with irony, because your comment seems hopelessly clueless. What we should be trying to do is to make public schools places of learning that are welcoming to students who want to learn. That's probably going to mean removing a few kids that make that environment impossible to achieve. Those are, actually, precisely the sort of kids that charter schools were originally intended to serve.
3
Eric - you didn't get my satire.
The student fight in a classroom the other day where the teacher/principal was lifted and body slammed to the floor requires a security presence to prevent and deal with those situations. The presence cannot be the teachers.
However, the editorial board and most comments here say it shouldn't be security officers, and no weapons. Ok...fine.
That leaves......what? Asking a disruptive or violent student to stop by asking "pretty please..."?
So, I suggest for those who don't want the security presence, that they should have schools that run that way (with the repurcussions). For the rest of us who want to learn, give me an option to go somewhere else where the disruptive students are removed and don't exist.
The student fight in a classroom the other day where the teacher/principal was lifted and body slammed to the floor requires a security presence to prevent and deal with those situations. The presence cannot be the teachers.
However, the editorial board and most comments here say it shouldn't be security officers, and no weapons. Ok...fine.
That leaves......what? Asking a disruptive or violent student to stop by asking "pretty please..."?
So, I suggest for those who don't want the security presence, that they should have schools that run that way (with the repurcussions). For the rest of us who want to learn, give me an option to go somewhere else where the disruptive students are removed and don't exist.
This is truly dim. Texting is equated to carrying a weapon. I don't know which planet you live on, but they are not the same thing, and schools should not treat them the same.
2
No child should be put in handcuffs, period. The only thing that keeps many of the refugees I meet every week from still having positive views of my country of birth is that are not yet reading American newspapers or seeing videos of incidents like the viral video or the accounts such as those of Sudanese-born Ahmed Mohamed who was handcuffed.
Is there any NYT coment reader who supports the handcuffing of Ahmed Mohamed? I would hope the answer to that would be: "No, not one single reader of Times accounts of these appalling incidents believes that handcuffing him was justified."
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen-USA-SE
Is there any NYT coment reader who supports the handcuffing of Ahmed Mohamed? I would hope the answer to that would be: "No, not one single reader of Times accounts of these appalling incidents believes that handcuffing him was justified."
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen-USA-SE
9
What would you have done to a person who, despite being under 18, is also a violent criminal? Such people exist. Sadly, in far too many numbers.
I can acknowledge that handcuffing a student in one case wasn't justified while still realizing that in other cases, it would be.
I can acknowledge that handcuffing a student in one case wasn't justified while still realizing that in other cases, it would be.
1
If it is the constitutional right of students with severe behavioral problems to run amuck then they should be segregated from the general population for the other students also have a right to an education. Is it surprising that students with the most behavioral issues have the most suspensions?
Police were introduced into the school system in response to escalating violence and risk to the safety of students and staff. It is unfortunate that this has been necessary and is a sign of degradation of social mores and responsibility. This editorial is a perfect example of the shift away from a common belief in what is reasonable and proper behavior to the self centered, litigious, acting out as a right of empowerment, standard of today. It is partly due to this shift that the police have become the agents of order in the classroom as a teacher or administrator who laid hands on a student or took disciplinary action who surely be sued and fired.
Police were introduced into the school system in response to escalating violence and risk to the safety of students and staff. It is unfortunate that this has been necessary and is a sign of degradation of social mores and responsibility. This editorial is a perfect example of the shift away from a common belief in what is reasonable and proper behavior to the self centered, litigious, acting out as a right of empowerment, standard of today. It is partly due to this shift that the police have become the agents of order in the classroom as a teacher or administrator who laid hands on a student or took disciplinary action who surely be sued and fired.
32
"Severe behavioral problems"? I don't see a child with 'severe" behavioral problems. She looked at her phone, and she put it down, and she apologized. She is a human being.
4
The educational skills of many American students is dismal.
The impassioned defense of "disruptive" students is misguided.
Removal of these "disruptive" students from the classroom,regardless of their race or ethnicity, is essential to the education of the other students.
The twisted logic of turning order and discipline in the classroom into a civil rights issue undermines the sole purpose of schools which is to provide an education to those who want to learn.
The impassioned defense of "disruptive" students is misguided.
Removal of these "disruptive" students from the classroom,regardless of their race or ethnicity, is essential to the education of the other students.
The twisted logic of turning order and discipline in the classroom into a civil rights issue undermines the sole purpose of schools which is to provide an education to those who want to learn.
44
As someone who has taught in a tough mixed race school, I offer this comment because it is what it is. I'm sure many will find fault, but it expresses a reality that is relevant to the discussion and I think it should be shared. Male teachers in tough schools are almost always the ones who break up fights and there are plenty of them, especially in busy corridors. In our school, the common view -- based on the advice of black teachers -- was that boys fight with their fists and you should almost always get in the middle because you're likely to be able to separate them without getting hit. Girls, however, -- especially black girls -- fight with their fingernails and sometimes their teeth. Intervene at your own risk.
(As for those who are inclined to view this as sexist, the existence of different fighting techniques for males and females is a fact of life. 99% of the time when one partner pours boiling water on the other, it's the guy who gets burnt.)
(As for those who are inclined to view this as sexist, the existence of different fighting techniques for males and females is a fact of life. 99% of the time when one partner pours boiling water on the other, it's the guy who gets burnt.)
16
I hope you are not a teacher anymore.
1
I'm seeing growing intolerance the world over. The brutality of the police is not confined to the United States alone; it happens in all the countries. However, one must be cautious while critizing the police for all their actions without understanding the circumstances that led the deputy Sheriff in Columbia to handcuff the boy. Instead of condemning the police actions, the government should arrange for training of the policemen where they can be sensitized in adopting a softer approach in dealing with students.
One fallout I see of condemning the police is they may get demotivated and simply stoop taking action or discharge their duties to avoid negative media coverage. This has to be avoided at all cost, as a demotivated police force is far more dangerous than a few errant officals taking law into their own hands.
One fallout I see of condemning the police is they may get demotivated and simply stoop taking action or discharge their duties to avoid negative media coverage. This has to be avoided at all cost, as a demotivated police force is far more dangerous than a few errant officals taking law into their own hands.
2
I wonder if this doesn't have something to do with the increasing burden placed in this country on teachers and public schools to handle social issues far beyond those of teaching, as well as the increased blame of teachers and schools for much that is beyond their control. Bringing in police is reprehensible, but may be part of a bigger picture.
39
The video from SC shows an officer out of control. It was equivalent to road rage. I do not know if it was race based, but this was an officer who has true anger management problems and should not have been in the position that he was in.
62
I agree, and the first thing that came to mind when I saw the first video was steroid rage. Then I read a newspaper report that this officer is a bodybuilder who lifts 635 lbs. I wonder if he was tested for steroids after it happened.
5
Again, we have South Carolina and Kentucky. When are we going to wake up and understand that there are a number of states in this country that have no intention of engaging in civilized behavior. Why are we sending tax dollars their way. I suggest that no amount of money, training, or DOJ investigations will help these people. They can't learn, and it's costing the rest of us.
14
What would happen if someone walked in to the lobby of the New York Times and started smoking? You would ask him to stop. If he didn't you would call security. They would ask him to stop. If he didn't, he would be forcibly removed.
What the video doesn't show is the backstory. Obviously, the student has disobeyed class rules and refused to comply with her (black) teacher. How much time has she wasted? How many resources used? What is your solution? More security? A counselor to talk her out of her chair?
Meanwhile more art classes are cut. Sports dropped. Education denied.
What the video doesn't show is the backstory. Obviously, the student has disobeyed class rules and refused to comply with her (black) teacher. How much time has she wasted? How many resources used? What is your solution? More security? A counselor to talk her out of her chair?
Meanwhile more art classes are cut. Sports dropped. Education denied.
39
No matter what the backstory was, the response was inappropriate. If a sibling had filmed that video at home when a parent was dealing with a disrespectful teen, that teen would be in foster care and the parent facing charges.
As a country we have paid short shrift to educational, economic and teaching priorities for decades, expecting teachers to pick up the slack, sapping their energy, enthusiasm, and often their pocketbooks. If Americans want to know what is wrong our schools, they can start looking in the mirror and fessing up to expecting the world and being willing to be taxed exactly nothing to get it.
As a country we have paid short shrift to educational, economic and teaching priorities for decades, expecting teachers to pick up the slack, sapping their energy, enthusiasm, and often their pocketbooks. If Americans want to know what is wrong our schools, they can start looking in the mirror and fessing up to expecting the world and being willing to be taxed exactly nothing to get it.
3
JK: Your analogy is quite faulty: The Adult smoking in a lobby is an Adult. A KID sitting in a chair not turning of their cell phone (head down Texting). simply is a false equivalent. We all realize that any parent who did this to their own child would be charged with Felony Assault so why are we more than willing to accept this from someone with a gun, uniform and badge. What law did she break?
4
I don't think you know all the details of this story. The child had been recently orphaned and placed in a foster home. She wasn't talking on the phone and put the phone away when asked, but the teacher decided to confiscate it. The school has a reputation for misplacing confiscated phones. This child, according to the other students in the class hardly spoke a word during the incident. Even if she had said something offensive, it in NO way allows ANYONE to put hands on her, let alone assault her causing great bodily harm.
5
Overall school crime is down significantly over the last couple of decades. The authors will need to make the case that enhanced security in schools had no contribution in the decline, besides saying that it didn't.
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/iscs14.pdf
Indicators of School Crime and Safety: 2014
This report is the seventeenth in a series of annual publications produced jointly by the National Center for Education Statistics (NCES), Institute of Education Sciences (IES), in the U.S. Department of Education, and the Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) in the U.S. Department of Justice.
The total victimization rate against students ages 12–18 at school declined 70 percent from 181 victimizations per 1,000 students in 1992 to 55 victimizations per 1,000 students in 2013.
The rate of violent victimization at school declined overall from 68 victimizations per 1,000 students in 1992 to 37 per 1,000 in 2013
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/iscs14.pdf
Indicators of School Crime and Safety: 2014
This report is the seventeenth in a series of annual publications produced jointly by the National Center for Education Statistics (NCES), Institute of Education Sciences (IES), in the U.S. Department of Education, and the Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) in the U.S. Department of Justice.
The total victimization rate against students ages 12–18 at school declined 70 percent from 181 victimizations per 1,000 students in 1992 to 55 victimizations per 1,000 students in 2013.
The rate of violent victimization at school declined overall from 68 victimizations per 1,000 students in 1992 to 37 per 1,000 in 2013
4
Perhaps violence in schools actually did decline, but a much truer picture is the fact that teachers and administrators are discouraged from reporting such acts-suspensions, referrals, and expulsions are part of schools' overall "grade" in many states. Much is swept under the rug or simply not documented.
1
Teaching good citizenship is just as important as the three Rs and just as fundamentally important to our future as a free society based on the rule of law. To abdicate that responsibility and contract out a school's disciplinary function to the criminal justice system in the form of a poorly trained and poorly equipped police officer whose whim is the law, teaches not good citizenship, but to yield to the rule of force. As the police officer so effectively explained, do what he says or have ill-fitting cuffs applied painfully to your biceps. The cop is rule-maker, law enforcement, judge, and jury. The lesson is unmistakable: You have no rights, police have no accountability, and the strongest and most brutal will dominate and rule over the weak and vulnerable. Respect for the rule of law and the obligation to demand a just and accountable social system is not part of the lesson. Submit and obey the tyrant is.
9
...and especially in the classroom.
Thank God.
Signed (by three different people),
A greatful parent
A dedicated teacher
A student wishing to learn
Thank God.
Signed (by three different people),
A greatful parent
A dedicated teacher
A student wishing to learn
In 2006 to 2008 I worked in the U.S. Department of Education I pointed out the problem of school discipline to expulsion. I found data on expulsions and suspensions and racial disparity.
I proposed a study to examine the origin and result of the policies.
I also noted that as schools got rid of counselors and social workers to help children the brought in police and zero tolerance.
Of course we do not have zero tolerance for police misconduct, we do have it for 5 year old minority children.
It then escalates.
My work was disparaged and ignored.
Children were punished and expelled and Ari Duncan and the Department of Education did not consider this to be a problem.
Michael D. Wiatrowski, Ph.D.
I proposed a study to examine the origin and result of the policies.
I also noted that as schools got rid of counselors and social workers to help children the brought in police and zero tolerance.
Of course we do not have zero tolerance for police misconduct, we do have it for 5 year old minority children.
It then escalates.
My work was disparaged and ignored.
Children were punished and expelled and Ari Duncan and the Department of Education did not consider this to be a problem.
Michael D. Wiatrowski, Ph.D.
22
Please. Is there a chance that minority students may "act up" more then a white bread type? Minority children hear a constant barrage of how they are disproportionately discriminated upon in society, and mostly it's true. When a confrontation happens they can feel empowered to misbehave and be disrespectful.
Being immature, they don't see the bigger picture, where their actions may actually hurt them or other people. The cop may lose his job, the teacher and principle can't control her class, and the student will have the reputation as the one who was in that video for the rest of her life.
There are better ways for all to have acted, and now the price will be paid for all those adults, any one of which could have halted the process of escalation. Thankfully, no one was physically hurt. Once the cops come in, people can get killed, as we all know.
The classroom should he been emptied, to take away the students audience. The child should have been calmly removed by talking to her by the classroom teacher and or the principle. If need be, the parent called to remove the student. Why is the principle of zero tolerance for violence, not applied to the authorities in the school? It's hypocrisy, and the cop and the student acted exactly the same, angrily.
Being immature, they don't see the bigger picture, where their actions may actually hurt them or other people. The cop may lose his job, the teacher and principle can't control her class, and the student will have the reputation as the one who was in that video for the rest of her life.
There are better ways for all to have acted, and now the price will be paid for all those adults, any one of which could have halted the process of escalation. Thankfully, no one was physically hurt. Once the cops come in, people can get killed, as we all know.
The classroom should he been emptied, to take away the students audience. The child should have been calmly removed by talking to her by the classroom teacher and or the principle. If need be, the parent called to remove the student. Why is the principle of zero tolerance for violence, not applied to the authorities in the school? It's hypocrisy, and the cop and the student acted exactly the same, angrily.
1
Weird. I've never seen a police officer in a classroom or even the building in the schools I attend. Sure there are guards at the gates but they don't have handcuffs or such. They don't have the responsibility of ensuring discipline.
But I live somewhere else.
The article seems to illustrate why they shouldn't have such a responsibility. It's supposed to be a teacher's or principal's job, like it used to be in U.S.
It also looks like the consequences of a gun culture.
But I live somewhere else.
The article seems to illustrate why they shouldn't have such a responsibility. It's supposed to be a teacher's or principal's job, like it used to be in U.S.
It also looks like the consequences of a gun culture.
5
The behavior of the children described here is not criminal. The behavior of the police is brutal and unlawful. With the possible exception of some bizarre circumstance, no eight year old child needs to be put in handcuffs, disabled or not.
27
Resistance- kids use it to control what they take in: be it food, love or discipline, nothing new here.
Going to school by bus and leaving the school in a police car - getting bailed out by a relative is a new wrinkle.
Carrots and sticks; honey and vinegar, depending on what you employ, it will determine the outlines of the response you receive.
Seems to me the rhythm is lost. Blame those bad parents of bad kids (racist roots here like it or not). And call in the higher authority (i.e. cops).
Check the mirror daily til it clears!
Going to school by bus and leaving the school in a police car - getting bailed out by a relative is a new wrinkle.
Carrots and sticks; honey and vinegar, depending on what you employ, it will determine the outlines of the response you receive.
Seems to me the rhythm is lost. Blame those bad parents of bad kids (racist roots here like it or not). And call in the higher authority (i.e. cops).
Check the mirror daily til it clears!
1
Around the world, and in America, police forces were founded not to make the "people" safer, but to make the well-off feel safer, and to keep traffic and business flowing.
Policing has become part of the culture wars. Too many excuse anything the police do and too few recognize the good that police do. And there's no way the police apologists want to ask how other countries manage their police in something like a civilized way. Being civilized is now also part of the culture wars.
Policing has become part of the culture wars. Too many excuse anything the police do and too few recognize the good that police do. And there's no way the police apologists want to ask how other countries manage their police in something like a civilized way. Being civilized is now also part of the culture wars.
5
When did we start using cops to patrol schools as a general practice? And why, for heaven’s sake? After all, we have the sense to keep soldiers from being stationed in our streets unless there’s a major breakdown of civil order, because we know that soldiers carry M16s and are trained to kill the enemy – there would be … incidents.
The School Resource Officer (SRO) is a cop, and has been selectively in schools since the 1950s; but not so’s you’d notice outside of the most crime-ridden urban schools until the 1990s. The dramatic increase in their presence since then was sparked by these incidents of school violence such as 1999’s Littleton, CO shoot-out, which also saw the widespread introduction of metal detectors and surveillance cameras. By increments, we’ve allowed rare explosions of violence to cause us to declare our schools war zones, in the name of trying to eliminate ANY possibility of such violence.
Well, cops deal with unruly behavior, particularly involving violent civil disobedience, with force; and they don’t take a lot of garbage from people who don’t obey lawful orders. We tolerate this generally in society because there are a lot of violent people out there and we want civil order. But we’re seeing the perfectly natural consequences of putting cops in schools when we see handcuffed kids. We did this to ourselves, and blaming cops is, well, a cop-out.
What we may really need are more effective principals and district administrations.
The School Resource Officer (SRO) is a cop, and has been selectively in schools since the 1950s; but not so’s you’d notice outside of the most crime-ridden urban schools until the 1990s. The dramatic increase in their presence since then was sparked by these incidents of school violence such as 1999’s Littleton, CO shoot-out, which also saw the widespread introduction of metal detectors and surveillance cameras. By increments, we’ve allowed rare explosions of violence to cause us to declare our schools war zones, in the name of trying to eliminate ANY possibility of such violence.
Well, cops deal with unruly behavior, particularly involving violent civil disobedience, with force; and they don’t take a lot of garbage from people who don’t obey lawful orders. We tolerate this generally in society because there are a lot of violent people out there and we want civil order. But we’re seeing the perfectly natural consequences of putting cops in schools when we see handcuffed kids. We did this to ourselves, and blaming cops is, well, a cop-out.
What we may really need are more effective principals and district administrations.
64
In part we tolerate police behavior because we have no choice.
Judges give them every latitude in the courtroom barring the presence of outside witnesses, and in the community I know if I ever dared complain about police behavior I would have them shadowing my every move to exact their revenge.
You never deliberately step on a rattlesnake; their reaction can be lethal.
Judges give them every latitude in the courtroom barring the presence of outside witnesses, and in the community I know if I ever dared complain about police behavior I would have them shadowing my every move to exact their revenge.
You never deliberately step on a rattlesnake; their reaction can be lethal.
What we also need are sane laws regarding appropriate discipline of children. A major problem that we have is parents and teachers/administrators are not allowed to discipline their children. If your child is out of control, you as a parent are not allowed to physically restrain or subdue them, even if they are trying to harm you or another child in your home or the class. Only the police have such power and they only know how to escalate a bad situation into a worse one. Kids fear the police, but they have very little respect for them, their parents, teachers, or other authority figures these days.
2
The violent people in society who make police officers necessary went to school at some point. They didn't check their violence at the door.
2
The article fails to provide information stating whether or not the educational environment has improved as a result of these policies. Missing from the conversation are the voices of the majority of students who just want to go to school. What about their rights? This is NOT to excuse the appaling behavior of the SC sheriff's deputy, but I fear that the disproportionate attention dedicated to a few incidents has effectively given willfully disruptive students a free pass. "film me. Make me famous!"
Increasingly, parents with the means to do so will support the "school choice" movement that will let them silently walk their children away from schools that fail to provide them with what they perceive to be an acceptable learning experience and into a school that is at liberty to set the threshold of "tolerable behavior" very low. The good teachers will follow, even if it means a reduction in pay. It will be devastating to already struggling public schools.
What then?
Increasingly, parents with the means to do so will support the "school choice" movement that will let them silently walk their children away from schools that fail to provide them with what they perceive to be an acceptable learning experience and into a school that is at liberty to set the threshold of "tolerable behavior" very low. The good teachers will follow, even if it means a reduction in pay. It will be devastating to already struggling public schools.
What then?
11
Unfortunately police officers illegal behavior in K-12 school as demonstrated in this viral video is not punished or even examined very closely. Even the officers boss had tried to justify his subordinates behavior on TV until they were overwhelmed by public outrage. His boss should be fired also. But that won't happen
5
It's time we had a separate police force to deal with minors. It might be difficult for regular police to psychologically transition from dealing with hardened criminals to dealing differently with children, and their techniques may get blurred. A dedicated police force for children, specially trained in child psychology and teenage rebellion is now a necessity. The police are our protectors and we need to train them properly.
1
And you propose to pay for that how exactly?
No question that using police in school corridors to maintain order is wrong. It's a waste of taxpayer money and its a waste of police resources. As the video clearly showed, it's also wrong. Police tactics are not suited for daily interaction with unruly teens.
But that's only part of the issue.
The real question is why anybody would want to teach in an environment that requires police officers to maintain order.
My guess is that we could take all the bullying cops out of all of the police forces in this country and we'd still have very real problems with the fate of minority children in this country. Not the least of which would be the exodus of teachers who would refuse to work in those schools.
Then the editors could rail about racists who refuse to be surrogate parents or surrogate cops in addition to being teachers. Meanwhile the kids will face yet another hurdle in life.
But that's only part of the issue.
The real question is why anybody would want to teach in an environment that requires police officers to maintain order.
My guess is that we could take all the bullying cops out of all of the police forces in this country and we'd still have very real problems with the fate of minority children in this country. Not the least of which would be the exodus of teachers who would refuse to work in those schools.
Then the editors could rail about racists who refuse to be surrogate parents or surrogate cops in addition to being teachers. Meanwhile the kids will face yet another hurdle in life.
5
FHR REAL PROBLEM IS . . .
...the diminishment of cultural values in the "inner city" schools (a euphemism) and the growing decadence even in wealthy suburban educational facilities.
When this is dealt with honestly ... police won't be considered to be a viable response. Though I admit it cannot be easily dealt with ... and will take a great deal of time.
...the diminishment of cultural values in the "inner city" schools (a euphemism) and the growing decadence even in wealthy suburban educational facilities.
When this is dealt with honestly ... police won't be considered to be a viable response. Though I admit it cannot be easily dealt with ... and will take a great deal of time.
1
The girl in South Carolina needed to be physically removed from the classroom. She created that situation by refusing to comply when three adults asked her to leave of her own volition. I do wish she hadn't been flipped backward. I'm not sure, however, that the officer intended that to happen.
I do want every student to be treated fairly. But the fair treatment for some students is going to involve being arrested--why should a person who assaults someone else on the street deal with police and courts while a person who assaults another in a school building deal with a principal? And fair treatment for the majority of students who are willing to behave and work is to have the disruptive students removed until they're willing to stop being disruptive.
I do want every student to be treated fairly. But the fair treatment for some students is going to involve being arrested--why should a person who assaults someone else on the street deal with police and courts while a person who assaults another in a school building deal with a principal? And fair treatment for the majority of students who are willing to behave and work is to have the disruptive students removed until they're willing to stop being disruptive.
32
Dear Eric,
The only thing I agree with is the inadvertent flipping. I watched the video and believe that the officer did not take into account the chair being attached to the desk.
You wrote,"needed to be physically removed". Why? Just because she was being defiant? Was she putting someone in immediate physical danger by her presence in that room? It is important to think carefully before concluding that something "needs" to be done. Once defined as a "need", all means become readily justified. There are a number of nonviolent ways that could've been tried. Perhaps she could have been individually spoken to between periods. It may have been harder for her to back down in front of her peers.
With respect to "assaults", remember that we are dealing with kids. Kids are impulsive and often physical. It is the job of school staff and parents to make a judgment as to whether a particular "assault" warrants the intervention of law enforcement. We don't want to criminalize childhood.
Another thing about kids is that they are incredibly adept at learning. Because of this, adults need to be very mindful of what they are "teaching". Do you really want to teach a kid that the best way to deal with someone obstructing a subway door during rush hour is to drag her out with a chokehold before hurling her across the platform?
The only thing I agree with is the inadvertent flipping. I watched the video and believe that the officer did not take into account the chair being attached to the desk.
You wrote,"needed to be physically removed". Why? Just because she was being defiant? Was she putting someone in immediate physical danger by her presence in that room? It is important to think carefully before concluding that something "needs" to be done. Once defined as a "need", all means become readily justified. There are a number of nonviolent ways that could've been tried. Perhaps she could have been individually spoken to between periods. It may have been harder for her to back down in front of her peers.
With respect to "assaults", remember that we are dealing with kids. Kids are impulsive and often physical. It is the job of school staff and parents to make a judgment as to whether a particular "assault" warrants the intervention of law enforcement. We don't want to criminalize childhood.
Another thing about kids is that they are incredibly adept at learning. Because of this, adults need to be very mindful of what they are "teaching". Do you really want to teach a kid that the best way to deal with someone obstructing a subway door during rush hour is to drag her out with a chokehold before hurling her across the platform?
9
Dealing with juveniles who display oppositional defiant behavior in high school classrooms requires different skills than dealing with younger children. Teenagers may refuse to obey authority for many reasons although power struggles can be avoided by simply giving the teen a choice. In the South Carolina girls situation, she could've been give a choice by the adults in the room by simply using a calm voice, repeating the request, give her a way to save face instead of confronting her in front of her peers & if that approach didn't work with both the teacher (an African American) as well as her Principal (an African American) then instead of escalating the situation by calling in the SRO, which escalates the situation, she simply could've been allowed the chance to step outside to cool down & when she felt she was ready to get back to work, then allowed to rejoin her peers in the classroom. This approach provides the teen with dignity, allows her to retain her self-respect & she could've visited the counseling office to talk about what was going on in her life. Maybe her boyfriend broke-up with her, she was mad at her parents, her girlfriends were creating drama, her teacher reminds her of her father who beats her at home, or a myriad of different issues that the teen is trying to keep under control & not explode. If all else doesn't work, then allow the SRO to calmly issue her an arrest warrant for not complying with school officials rather than physically assault her.
9
If the police are going to be in our classrooms, and I don't think they should, then they need to be trained to deal with teens who, while not criminals, are unruly. Your comment is saying the girl brought it onto herself by not complying. Obviously it would have been better if she wasn't using the phone (though we don't have the information to judge as the call might have been an emergency or something like that). That does not, however, justify the actions of the police officer. That was and is not the first student to act out in class. They've been doing it forever and way before society decided it was a good idea to have police in the schools. Everyday discipline is not a police function. We would all laugh at the parent that calls the police because their child won't listen to them. However, we think it's appropriate when a teacher or principle do. It's not.
7
I work in a small public k-8 school. We have a resource room for our special education students that provides excellent support. Still, the students travel in same age packs, teachers talk and kids listen. Some students just can't sit and be still. Some students will not be successful in this paradigm for many reasons. (Are there things to do for a living that don't involve sitting in a large group quietly?)
We need to change what school is (of course dynamically increase funding, let's be real) and make it a place where students of various ages mix, all teachers teach all students, and students can be grouped with those of similar learning style or any other important criteria, but not just by age.
It would obviate the need for much police work.
We need to change what school is (of course dynamically increase funding, let's be real) and make it a place where students of various ages mix, all teachers teach all students, and students can be grouped with those of similar learning style or any other important criteria, but not just by age.
It would obviate the need for much police work.
6
The school kids in handcuffs is the ultimate manifestation of the totalitarian training we are providing our children as a result of our "concerns for their safety". We have agreed that keeping schoolchildren in locked facilities with surveillance cameras and police protection is a trade off we are willing to make in order to keep them safe from shooters who have unrestricted access to weapons designed to kill people. We're raising a generation who believes 24/7 surveillance, security gates with checkpoints, and constant police presence are needed to protect us from "the other"… a world where parents who allow their children to navigate a walk to park unsupervised are dragged into court for child neglect… a world where the message is buy your own gun if you REALLY want to be safe… a world where a child who protests the treatment of a classmate who's being dragged to the ground by a policeman is arrested.
148
What's happening in our schools reflects our culture in general, since schools represent the largest subculture in US society. The problem is simple: an overall lack of respect - which goes in every direction. The S.C. case is an excellent example of this fact.
First, most Americans my age could not conceive of refusing to follow a teacher's instructions to report to the principal's office - indeed, we would have gone their hesitantly, trembling at the outcome. Today, kids show disrespect with impunity toward authority figures in schools, and why shouldn't they when they hear major media figures speaking with the same disrespect about the president of the US? Kids learn by example, and the examples they see in the adult word are filled with disrespect, shouting, and vehemence.
Second, the staff members should be the adults in the room. Any adult in authority who has to resort to bullying or any form of physical violence in response to student disrespect needs to find a desk job somewhere that does not involve working with other people. Again, however, the officer's behavior mimics that of society in general and the US government in particular.
We see reports every day of brutality by our police officers, prison guards, US soldiers, and our elected representatives. It's as if we are all regressing toward our neanderthal ancestry.
Bottom line: we all need to re-learn this concept of respect, for ourselves and for others.
First, most Americans my age could not conceive of refusing to follow a teacher's instructions to report to the principal's office - indeed, we would have gone their hesitantly, trembling at the outcome. Today, kids show disrespect with impunity toward authority figures in schools, and why shouldn't they when they hear major media figures speaking with the same disrespect about the president of the US? Kids learn by example, and the examples they see in the adult word are filled with disrespect, shouting, and vehemence.
Second, the staff members should be the adults in the room. Any adult in authority who has to resort to bullying or any form of physical violence in response to student disrespect needs to find a desk job somewhere that does not involve working with other people. Again, however, the officer's behavior mimics that of society in general and the US government in particular.
We see reports every day of brutality by our police officers, prison guards, US soldiers, and our elected representatives. It's as if we are all regressing toward our neanderthal ancestry.
Bottom line: we all need to re-learn this concept of respect, for ourselves and for others.
20
The vast majority of kids don't belong in handcuffs. The exception to me would be a large teenager who assaults someone.
But I want to know why we are asking a single teacher, whose job it is to convey knowledge to a room full of students, to resolve problems that have so far remained unsolved by a student's family, medical, psychological, and education experts.
Teachers are not miracle workers. If a student has emotional, behavioral, psychological, and / or learning problems so profound that they persist despite expert and family attention, why should we expect teachers to solve them?
But I want to know why we are asking a single teacher, whose job it is to convey knowledge to a room full of students, to resolve problems that have so far remained unsolved by a student's family, medical, psychological, and education experts.
Teachers are not miracle workers. If a student has emotional, behavioral, psychological, and / or learning problems so profound that they persist despite expert and family attention, why should we expect teachers to solve them?
49
It's simple, police do not belong in schools.
If schools need security personnel to prevent unauthorized persons from entering facilities or to screen students so that weapons are not brought into schools, then those tasks should be untertaken by school security personnel.
Teachers and school administrators should be dealing with disruptive students and only as a last resort should school security personnel become involved.
School disciple should be just what it is, school disciple, and not become a criminal act or felony.
The police should only be called when there is a crime, otherwise student fights, disruptive behavior and bullying should be handled as discipline and not a criminal matter.
If schools need security personnel to prevent unauthorized persons from entering facilities or to screen students so that weapons are not brought into schools, then those tasks should be untertaken by school security personnel.
Teachers and school administrators should be dealing with disruptive students and only as a last resort should school security personnel become involved.
School disciple should be just what it is, school disciple, and not become a criminal act or felony.
The police should only be called when there is a crime, otherwise student fights, disruptive behavior and bullying should be handled as discipline and not a criminal matter.
10
Why would we call something assault when it happens outside the school but a "student fight" when it happens in one, with one being a crime and the other being a minor misbehavior? Why would we call something harassment outside school but "bullying" in, and again, offer a much smaller consequence because the behavior happened in school?
Too much of what students do in schools IS illegal. We shouldn't sweep it under the rug just because they broke the law in one particular building.
Too much of what students do in schools IS illegal. We shouldn't sweep it under the rug just because they broke the law in one particular building.
1
Fine editorial. Get the police out of the classroom and out of the schools. Get guns out of the schools in order that you can get police out of the schools. A society that winds up with police in the class room is a diseased society, no question about it. America's got a disease and the people don't even know it. Why don't they know it? Because Republicans don't believe in knowing anything. If you gut guns on campus, you got police on campus to make sure the gun carriers don't use them. You got police on campus they're gonna get mission creep and start disciplining students in their own inimitable way. That's the NRA-Reupblican way. Republicans said they were gonna fix things. Well they've fixed em so bad it may be impossible for this society to ever right itself. Crazy supreme court decisions on campaign finance prevent real political change. Money rules, not popular deliberation. A web of Republican traps that have ensnarled democracy so badly that it cannot function.
Thanks Republicans, you ruined it for everybody. Republicans you want guns in schools, you pay for the police in schools. Let's start taxing people in accordance with what they vote for. Southerners, you start paying for the excessive military expenditures.
Thanks Republicans, you ruined it for everybody. Republicans you want guns in schools, you pay for the police in schools. Let's start taxing people in accordance with what they vote for. Southerners, you start paying for the excessive military expenditures.
11
Unfortunately, events in the Black community seem to be conspiring to create a new sense of entitlement--a certain freedom from having to obey rules, conventions and laws--without consequence. Somehow, a long banished system of slavery, combined with a history of discrimination, seems to be providing a feeling of immunity for certain citizens--for having to follow the rules by which a civilized country governs itself.
Somehow.....
It is proper for a young Black kid to attack a police officer, to charge at him, wrestle for his firearms--and then when his arrogance and disrespect for authority ends badly....to be made a martyr, spawning a phony narrative for a phony cause.
It is ok for Black activists to decry the only force for good--for law and order in their dysfunctional and violent inner city neighborhoods. Somehow...brave officers are the enemy, and thugs and gang-bangers are the heroic victims.
It is ok for activists to interrupt and indeed take over legal public gatherings--with chants and banners, claiming only their lives matter.
Somehow, it is ok to protest in the street--calling for the murder of police officers--for "pigs to fry like bacon".
This all leads to?....a young arrogant girl, disrupting a classroom--disobeying all authorities, refusing to comply with reasonable requests, who when the police show up and demonstrate that SHE is not in charge, is suddenly a "victim" of police brutality.
The world has been turned on its head.
Somehow.....
It is proper for a young Black kid to attack a police officer, to charge at him, wrestle for his firearms--and then when his arrogance and disrespect for authority ends badly....to be made a martyr, spawning a phony narrative for a phony cause.
It is ok for Black activists to decry the only force for good--for law and order in their dysfunctional and violent inner city neighborhoods. Somehow...brave officers are the enemy, and thugs and gang-bangers are the heroic victims.
It is ok for activists to interrupt and indeed take over legal public gatherings--with chants and banners, claiming only their lives matter.
Somehow, it is ok to protest in the street--calling for the murder of police officers--for "pigs to fry like bacon".
This all leads to?....a young arrogant girl, disrupting a classroom--disobeying all authorities, refusing to comply with reasonable requests, who when the police show up and demonstrate that SHE is not in charge, is suddenly a "victim" of police brutality.
The world has been turned on its head.
19
What happened to teachers handling this sort of thing, with as a last resort, the principal?
8
The teachers and principal are running for their lives. They're both intimidated by the behavior and intimidated by the cellphone cameras and the lawyers if they try to take control of the situation. It's a pretty awful situation.
A POLICE STATE exists in the schools. Tragically, they have not prevented school shootings. If not, then why are officers there? To enforce discipline? The meaning of the word discipline comes from the same root as 'disciple." So discipline implies learning--learning self-control. Watching a kid being flipped from a desk onto the floor and dragged out of the classroom is the definition of a child NOT being taught self-control.
If teaching self-control is the objective of school police, then those officers so tasked must be given intensive training and supervision in how to teach self-control, or discipline. A hair trigger response with rage and physical violence by an officer shows a clear deficit of both training and supervision.
The rationale for a hair-trigger response is to protect the lives of officers on the street, which is a claim proven to be false by the videos of nonviolent, unarmed citizens being shot to death.
Radical change in attitude is required. The first duty of law enforcement is to keep the peace. That does not mean slamming or killing unarmed citizens, including children. How does that maintain the peace? It defines extreme violence.
The militarization of police, especially following 9/11, has been rationalized to prevent future attacks. But the people attacked are not even carrying weapons, leave alone using a plane filled to capacity as a bomb.
If the violence continues, the terrorists will have achieved their objective: Terror!
If teaching self-control is the objective of school police, then those officers so tasked must be given intensive training and supervision in how to teach self-control, or discipline. A hair trigger response with rage and physical violence by an officer shows a clear deficit of both training and supervision.
The rationale for a hair-trigger response is to protect the lives of officers on the street, which is a claim proven to be false by the videos of nonviolent, unarmed citizens being shot to death.
Radical change in attitude is required. The first duty of law enforcement is to keep the peace. That does not mean slamming or killing unarmed citizens, including children. How does that maintain the peace? It defines extreme violence.
The militarization of police, especially following 9/11, has been rationalized to prevent future attacks. But the people attacked are not even carrying weapons, leave alone using a plane filled to capacity as a bomb.
If the violence continues, the terrorists will have achieved their objective: Terror!
83
Schools should invest in hiring more highly trained behavioral technicians, social workers & community liasons who are highly trained in working with behavioral, emotional & family issues and are usually paid less than police trained school resource officers who focus more on punishment than viewing children's behavior from more rudimentary crime & punishment paradigms.
5
The editorial doesn't mention that the Columbia, SC legislature passed a law making disruption in a classroom a criminal offense. The action of Columbia clearly says that, in my opinion, the town doesn't like children, or at least the children of a particular group of residents.
We can discuss school discipline or the size of classes or the curriculum that bores and leaves many children simply occupying space. We can even discuss the value of educating our young people to the larger society.
While we make claims that we think that public education is important (more important if outsourced to a for-profit corporation) but our actions belie our words. We really don't care about the children of anyone but our own and that of our close friends. We criminalize children for being bored in a classroom that is already overcrowded because we think that the education costs too much.
The sometimes brutal arrests of some children are but the tip of the proverbial iceberg that is public education and our attitudes towards it.
We can discuss school discipline or the size of classes or the curriculum that bores and leaves many children simply occupying space. We can even discuss the value of educating our young people to the larger society.
While we make claims that we think that public education is important (more important if outsourced to a for-profit corporation) but our actions belie our words. We really don't care about the children of anyone but our own and that of our close friends. We criminalize children for being bored in a classroom that is already overcrowded because we think that the education costs too much.
The sometimes brutal arrests of some children are but the tip of the proverbial iceberg that is public education and our attitudes towards it.
155
George, I'd love to read the text of that law, which sounds insane. Got a link?
In reply to Mr. George Wells: What you say about people really not caring about the children of anyone but their own and those of their close friends reminded me of recent news reports - in The New York Times and CBS 60 Minutes - on the new attitude toward heroin now that its use has decisively moved into white communities. When black people were addicts, they were junkies, i.e. junk. Now that better-off white teens are using - and dying - from overdoses, are users are people who are ill and need help. Of course this is true whether a person is black or white. But it seemed clear that the group of white, bereft parents who appeared on 60 Minutes had thought that their white suburban community, where all good boys play football, would protect them from bad things happening. It's not that simple.
2
Public disdain for education and teachers trickles down to children. Why would this girl respect the teacher? Nobody else does.
1
Discipline is the responsibility of teachers and the school system, not of law enforcement. This is turning schools into centers of child abuse.
The trauma is not just for the children who are "arrested" and treated with brutality, but for all the other children who observe the abuse. Their ideas about violence and racism as well as disabilities are being impacted by this. Why don't the parents of all children in these schools complain? These incidents are harming many others beyond the victims of the police child abuse.
My family has been educators for generations, on different levels. I grew up hearing about a 16-year-old female teacher maintaining discipline over larger boys in a one-room schoolhouse in Kentucky, and other stories. The teacher always has ultimate authority in the classroom, and there are many ways of exercising it.
The penalty for using a cell phone and other infractions should never be violence. The student in SC was a foster child in what should have been a safe place - her schoolroom. The other students seen in the video are paralyzed with fear, except for the girl who bravely protested (and was arrested for her courage).
“Do not train a child to learn by force or harshness; but direct them to it by what amuses their minds, so that you may be better able to discover with accuracy the peculiar bent of the genius of each.” Plato
The trauma is not just for the children who are "arrested" and treated with brutality, but for all the other children who observe the abuse. Their ideas about violence and racism as well as disabilities are being impacted by this. Why don't the parents of all children in these schools complain? These incidents are harming many others beyond the victims of the police child abuse.
My family has been educators for generations, on different levels. I grew up hearing about a 16-year-old female teacher maintaining discipline over larger boys in a one-room schoolhouse in Kentucky, and other stories. The teacher always has ultimate authority in the classroom, and there are many ways of exercising it.
The penalty for using a cell phone and other infractions should never be violence. The student in SC was a foster child in what should have been a safe place - her schoolroom. The other students seen in the video are paralyzed with fear, except for the girl who bravely protested (and was arrested for her courage).
“Do not train a child to learn by force or harshness; but direct them to it by what amuses their minds, so that you may be better able to discover with accuracy the peculiar bent of the genius of each.” Plato
126
She should neither have been arrested, nor should the officer have been fired. She did not respond to the order to turn over her phone. At that point, the order somehow has to be enforced and that was only possible through physical "interaction". She should have been hauled off for detention with make-up time on the weekend. No arrest, no record.
Sorry, no sympathy there. I grew up when physical punishment was still accepted at school and it ensured discipline. As long as the teachers were not sadists, that was a useful and sparingly used tool.
Sorry, no sympathy there. I grew up when physical punishment was still accepted at school and it ensured discipline. As long as the teachers were not sadists, that was a useful and sparingly used tool.
2
"My family has been educators for generations, on different levels. I grew up hearing about a 16-year-old female teacher maintaining discipline over larger boys in a one-room schoolhouse in Kentucky, and other stories. The teacher always has ultimate authority in the classroom, and there are many ways of exercising it."
How?
I won't argue that that sort of thing hasn't worked, but it requires buy-in from students and parents. If the student simply refuses to comply, either the teacher's authority disappears or there has to be another step. A teacher can control a class alone ONLY when the kids have been taught to behave.
Everybody keeps insisting this teacher should have handled it on her own. Nobody can explain how.
How?
I won't argue that that sort of thing hasn't worked, but it requires buy-in from students and parents. If the student simply refuses to comply, either the teacher's authority disappears or there has to be another step. A teacher can control a class alone ONLY when the kids have been taught to behave.
Everybody keeps insisting this teacher should have handled it on her own. Nobody can explain how.
1
You seem to leave parenting out of the equation. If there is no respect for authority at home the teachers cannot teach at school.
2
So here we are a 'Police State' that now even assaults children to the hurrahs of the same crowd of 'patriots' who love liberty guns, lynchings and police who are judge jury and executioners.
A police force that threatens not only those who resist with death but also feels it has both the right to 'withdraw' it's protection of citizens it does not like but to organize boycotts as though it was correct for being a political instead of an apolitical force.
They even blame protests for the murders carried out by individuals rather than as true conservatives with principles would, allocate blame where it lies; with the killer individuals. More victim blaming.
A police force that threatens not only those who resist with death but also feels it has both the right to 'withdraw' it's protection of citizens it does not like but to organize boycotts as though it was correct for being a political instead of an apolitical force.
They even blame protests for the murders carried out by individuals rather than as true conservatives with principles would, allocate blame where it lies; with the killer individuals. More victim blaming.
11
In NYC this has been going on for years. I have a niece with behavioral/emotional problems and on a few occasions she was removed from school by police officers for acting out. To be fair, in one incident she did hit or try to hit her teacher. She was taken to a psych ward to be evaluated alongside an 11/12 year old boy who was being evaluated for chocking his 9 year old sister almost to death, AGAIN. I do not have a hard position on this issue, because while there are instances where the police go overboard, the reality is that children can be dangerous. More and more children are being prosecuted as adults for horrific crimes. And that makes it harder to look at children as innocent little souls who need protection and nurturing.
Children with disabilities are at an even greater disadvantage because schools across the country lack the resources to provide the appropriate level of care and instruction of special needs students. Minority students get the worst of it, because schools in low income/higher crime areas have such a large police presence and to them, the student body looks a lot like the perps on the street. Ultimately, we have sacrificed civil rights for security.
Children with disabilities are at an even greater disadvantage because schools across the country lack the resources to provide the appropriate level of care and instruction of special needs students. Minority students get the worst of it, because schools in low income/higher crime areas have such a large police presence and to them, the student body looks a lot like the perps on the street. Ultimately, we have sacrificed civil rights for security.
34
Unless they are called in to detain a burglar or a criminal (a sniper, most probably), police has no business inside schools. Students are not criminals. Their disobedience should not be dealt as a crime. Teachers and principals are supposed to know how to deal with disobedience. If they don't know or don't want to, then we need to find people who can.
22
How should they do so? Teachers and principals are usually pretty good at their jobs, but how should they deal with it when a student completely opts out of the process, sits in a seat ignoring requests from adults, and won't move?
They should have someone on staff whose job duties include physically removing that student. That's my answer, at least. I hear a lot of people insisting that school employees should "handle" or "deal with" extreme misbehavior, but none can give what sounds like a workable answer for what that would look like.
They should have someone on staff whose job duties include physically removing that student. That's my answer, at least. I hear a lot of people insisting that school employees should "handle" or "deal with" extreme misbehavior, but none can give what sounds like a workable answer for what that would look like.
As an educator with over 20 years experience in schools, as an outreach worker, counselor and administrator, this excessive policing and punishing of children, especially poor and minority children, is not new or surprising. I have seen children with behavioral issues locked in closets by administrators and the National Child Abuse line refused to assist. No attorney will take their case. No leaders will challenge the system that criminalize and blame the children and family. I have seen children arrested at school by police officers, for refusing to stop speaking Spanish to other Spanish speakers. A 10 year old who weighed about 60 pounds was arrested after biting a counselor, when she and two other large adults were holding the child down, sitting on the child's shoulder, body and legs. He was charged with assault and given community service at 10 years old. Police are regularly used to threaten and frighten children in school, especially poor and minority children. It is the first step and experience of criminalizing children and their behaviors. Officers are not teachers or counseling, but enforcers of the law. Few children are such criminals deserving of such inequitable and frightening treatment in school or in the community.
193
We're marching our kids, school uniforms and all, lockstep into the past, a past that didn't really happen but we fantasize about, when "things were different", discipline in school was the norm, and kids all respected teachers and cops. It's a lot easier than actually dealing with the complex problems or educating and socializing our young, especially when they pose challenges. This aligns neatly with the dumbing down of nearly everything, the compartmentalization, the devaluation of individualism in pursuit of robots willing and able to work at mind-numbingly boring jobs for very low wages. Too bad Oliver Twist didn't have an SRO to handcuff him when asking for more gruel, he'd have learned his lesson right quick. But this criminalization of the petty and the young bears fruit for the corrections industry, a burgeoning private enterprise in our economy. I wonder how many charter school principals have invested in them?
4
There are legitimate reasons for placing officers in schools, but enforcement of disciplinary policies is not one of them. Like many of my colleagues, I periodically invited the SRO (School Resource Officer) into my classroom to explain to students the laws that most directly affected them and to discuss in more general terms how the police interacted with the community. The SRO viewed these occasions as an opportunity to establish rapport with teenagers, something that was difficult to do outside the school environment, when the encounters were of an official nature.
No teacher I knew would have permitted an officer to enter the classroom for disciplinary reasons, both because it would signal the instructor's abdication of his moral authority and because it would undermine the critical idea that schools were sanctuaries where rule infractions would not trigger adult consequences. The only exception to this policy involved a violation of city or state law, usually related to possession of drugs or weapons.
Students who resist authority without threatening to harm anyone should face suspension or expulsion, not arrest, much less a violent takedown. As odd as it may sound, the instructor can ignore passive defiance and continue to teach while an assistant principal is summoned and the parents are contacted. Reliance on the police in this situation threatens to damage the learning environment in ways that are not easy to remedy. The cost is too high, to everyone.
No teacher I knew would have permitted an officer to enter the classroom for disciplinary reasons, both because it would signal the instructor's abdication of his moral authority and because it would undermine the critical idea that schools were sanctuaries where rule infractions would not trigger adult consequences. The only exception to this policy involved a violation of city or state law, usually related to possession of drugs or weapons.
Students who resist authority without threatening to harm anyone should face suspension or expulsion, not arrest, much less a violent takedown. As odd as it may sound, the instructor can ignore passive defiance and continue to teach while an assistant principal is summoned and the parents are contacted. Reliance on the police in this situation threatens to damage the learning environment in ways that are not easy to remedy. The cost is too high, to everyone.
179
Agreed. And even suspension is way over-used and counter-productive. Expulsion should only be for the most extreme behavior when all other more moderate remedies have been tried in good faith and to no avail.
3
How do you suspend or expel someone who won't go to the principal's office?
I mean, sure, they'll leave eventually, and you can mail the suspension paperwork home. What happens when the kid walks into school the next day and refuses to observe the suspension? All of the "the school should just handle it" answers assume some degree of compliance from the students, and that's a reasonable assumption. Reasonable students will go along with it. But not all students are reasonable, and when you have a defiant student who won't go to the office when sent, your only real choices are to allow that student to poison the educational atmosphere with the example that you can act any way you'd like without consequences, or to remove that student.
I mean, sure, they'll leave eventually, and you can mail the suspension paperwork home. What happens when the kid walks into school the next day and refuses to observe the suspension? All of the "the school should just handle it" answers assume some degree of compliance from the students, and that's a reasonable assumption. Reasonable students will go along with it. But not all students are reasonable, and when you have a defiant student who won't go to the office when sent, your only real choices are to allow that student to poison the educational atmosphere with the example that you can act any way you'd like without consequences, or to remove that student.
2
The teacher called the administrator, the administrator called the school security officer. That failed. The administrator called the cops. The teacher has nothing to do with it. The protocols were followed. But thanks for telling us what you will not do.
3
The most shocking part of the assault in Columbia, SC, was that the deputy did it in front of a room full of witnesses. He must have believed he could get away with it, that he was just "doing his job".
The way he overturned the desk could easily have broken the girl's neck.
He should be charged with felony child endangerment, felony child abuse and felony battery.
The way he overturned the desk could easily have broken the girl's neck.
He should be charged with felony child endangerment, felony child abuse and felony battery.
169
For every video of bad police officers, there are hundreds of videos of students rampaging in the classroom, beating up each other and teachers, throwing chairs and desks out the windows, attacking the police officers who are responding. What should be done about this? There are some schools where no teachers want to go, and for very good reasons.
35
I find it funny that one can make this statement and simply expect everyone to believe it. Do you care to back up your assertion that students are so incredibly violent and riotous that police are required?
14
Our problem is dysfunctional families, there is no fix for that!
Nice assertion- care to share a source?
11
Police should be involved only when there is physical violence or danger of bodily harm to the student or others. Beyond that, police should be called when there is gross destruction of property. In high school, criminal behavior should be included in when to call the cops. The kid who was dragged by the cop was being obstinate, disrespectful and infuriating. In the past, a teacher would have ignored her and gone on with the lesson or sent her to the principal's office.
76
@Anne-Marie Hislop - Anne-Marie, you use three very strong words to describe the behavior of the student that in the videos (2) I have seen is simply sitting at her desk.
I thought I had read all of the NYT accounts of this incident but I do not recall finding in any of them satisfactory documentation of the exact sequence of events and behaviors that preceded the police officer's violent action.
If you have a reliable source justifying your use of the three words I would like to see it, either as a reply here or a note at my blog or to my Gmail (at blog).
Larry
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
I thought I had read all of the NYT accounts of this incident but I do not recall finding in any of them satisfactory documentation of the exact sequence of events and behaviors that preceded the police officer's violent action.
If you have a reliable source justifying your use of the three words I would like to see it, either as a reply here or a note at my blog or to my Gmail (at blog).
Larry
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
8
The problem with this approach (ignore or send her to the principal's office) is this. What if she's disruptive enough to make teaching impossible and refuses to leave? There needs to be a bottom line. Perhaps this officer went about it in an inappropriate manner but the bottom line is disruptive students need to leave the classroom, one way or another.
4
every class has few of those kids who are always disturbing other children, this is beyond the scope of teachers, few decades back we had corporal punishment, it could have fixed some kids, now these kids end up in prison
1
This article complains, but doesn't offer a solution. If you talk with the teachers, then they will tell you that they get no support from the parents. Sometimes the teachers can't even find the parents. The media is playing down the fact that there are police in some schools because the teachers cannot handle the behavioral problems.
60
Perhaps the article does not offer a solution, but it certainly makes clear what the solution is NOT.
13
Behavioral problems within schools should be handled by pedagogical methods. Handcuffs and manhandling are clearly not amongst them. Different qualification, even peronality type is needed for handling behavioral problems of (disabled) children with or without parents and (criminal) law offenders. Moreover , the (young) law offenders even in prisons also need some pedagogical approach. Unnessecary violence begets new violence and broken personalities.
14
"The media is playing down the fact that there are police in some schools because the teachers cannot handle the behavioral problems." This statement is sadly very, very accurate Thank you, OUTSIDE THE BOX. Many schools have to spend so much time with behavorial problems, their true mission of educating students takes a back seat. Because of this dynamic, educators get to see grandiose articles from news agencies about schools not educating students. Ah, come on over members of the news media. Step into these schools for more than an hour and try to teach in some of these situations. Before you preach to educators become one for a few months and experience schools from the inside. The preachiness of your editorials just might change.
5