I can understand the motivations of New Zealanders to want to adopt a new flag BUT those proposed designs are TERRIBLE! Honestly, New Zealand is supposedly a land of great beauty (admittedly I've only ever made it to Australia) and there must be better ideas out there than those that are being proposed. My advice would be to WAIT until a strong option becomes available before changing the flag. After all, it is supposed to represent the nation and I really think that there must be a better option than those UGLY UGLY proposals.
3
I am not a Kiwi, but some of my in laws are. I have not had a chance to speak with them to hear their thoughts regarding the new design ideas, but from a non-Kiwi's point of view I do like the fern motif.
Is there any reason why the fern has to replace the Union Jack -- why can't it replace the Southern Cross instead? Much of the confusion between Australia and New Zealand's flags stem from having same elements of design in their flags. There are plenty of countries in southern hemisphere whose flags don't feature Southern Cross. Among Union Jack, fern and Southern Cross, I'd say the constellation is the weakest link in representing New Zealand. At least Australia's name is derived from austral, meaning south, which justifies the use of Southern Cross.
Personally, Red Peak evokes nothing of New Zealand but reminds me of Associated Supermarket logo, one of the sorriest supermarkets I'd had to rely on during a point in my life.
Is there any reason why the fern has to replace the Union Jack -- why can't it replace the Southern Cross instead? Much of the confusion between Australia and New Zealand's flags stem from having same elements of design in their flags. There are plenty of countries in southern hemisphere whose flags don't feature Southern Cross. Among Union Jack, fern and Southern Cross, I'd say the constellation is the weakest link in representing New Zealand. At least Australia's name is derived from austral, meaning south, which justifies the use of Southern Cross.
Personally, Red Peak evokes nothing of New Zealand but reminds me of Associated Supermarket logo, one of the sorriest supermarkets I'd had to rely on during a point in my life.
1
As a proud Kiwi I have long supported changing the flag. New Zealand is a very special but small country in a far flung part of a big, crowded world. A new, distinctive and original flag would help us 'stand tall' and get noticed.
I actually support one of the derivative flags (silver fern with Southern Cross on a blue and black background). This retains some of the existing flag's elements - providing a link to our heritage, while integrating the most recognizable icon of New Zealand - the Silver Fern. Apart from its connection to our natural environment, many, many thousands of New Zealanders who fought and died bravely in both World Wars lie in foreign fields with the Silver Fern gracing their headstones.
Whatever criticism there is of John Key one cannot fault his decision to put it to a public vote - one of only a very few countries who have changed their flag that have used a referendum process. Like with the positive move to a more open and participatory style of democracy (MMP) after many decades of debate - New Zealand will definitely make this change at some point in the future. I hope it is now.
I actually support one of the derivative flags (silver fern with Southern Cross on a blue and black background). This retains some of the existing flag's elements - providing a link to our heritage, while integrating the most recognizable icon of New Zealand - the Silver Fern. Apart from its connection to our natural environment, many, many thousands of New Zealanders who fought and died bravely in both World Wars lie in foreign fields with the Silver Fern gracing their headstones.
Whatever criticism there is of John Key one cannot fault his decision to put it to a public vote - one of only a very few countries who have changed their flag that have used a referendum process. Like with the positive move to a more open and participatory style of democracy (MMP) after many decades of debate - New Zealand will definitely make this change at some point in the future. I hope it is now.
2
Being a bit pedantic but it's the union flag not the union jack unless it's flown from sea or on a boat / ship. The fern is branding and good branding at that. I don't think it has enough to be so dominant on a national flag. Neither for or against the change but give it longevity and depth. Agree easily confused with Australia and that is maybe the best reason for change. Likewise I've seen the Union flag flown upside down on several occasions. Oops just saw Timothyjsteiner post, he's right anyway.
I am hoping for a big All Blacks win over Australia in the Rugby World Cup final on Saturday. While that win would seem give the "silver fern" designs an emotional boost, it might just be enough to give the "Red Peaks" design a winning edge in the first vote from those wishing to retain the iconic silver fern as a unique symbol of the national rugby team.
The two step process of first choosing a new flag design and then choosing whether that design should replace the current flag has been an interesting one to follow from a distance. While it has echoes of the debates taking place in the former Confederate States in the US to replace those state flags which currently contain the Confederate Battle flag, there seems to be--at least in reports available in the US--a serious discussion among many in New Zealand about which design symbolizing desired national characteristics should represent NZ's future on a new flag and not its colonial past. How refreshing compared to the bitter debates in the US!
Good luck to New Zealand in this process. I suspect at the end the current flag will be retained, but Kiwi's have surprised the world before and may do so again.
The two step process of first choosing a new flag design and then choosing whether that design should replace the current flag has been an interesting one to follow from a distance. While it has echoes of the debates taking place in the former Confederate States in the US to replace those state flags which currently contain the Confederate Battle flag, there seems to be--at least in reports available in the US--a serious discussion among many in New Zealand about which design symbolizing desired national characteristics should represent NZ's future on a new flag and not its colonial past. How refreshing compared to the bitter debates in the US!
Good luck to New Zealand in this process. I suspect at the end the current flag will be retained, but Kiwi's have surprised the world before and may do so again.
1
Their current flag is one of the handsomest and most distinctive, while paying respect to NZ's history as a British settlement. NZ, Aus, Canada and early US were part of the great migration from the crowded and class ridden British Isles. Unlike Canada, which had to deal with its Francophone population, NZ hasn't that diversion from its British history. Frankly, the proposed designs are gimmicky. To the extent some of the proposals claim to incorporate Maori designs, they pay tribute to an aboriginal population that is a minority, without regard to the history, majority population and economy of the NZ nation as its exists today. The Southern Cross in the starry sky belongs to everyone. A fern leaf on a flag -- just goofy and resembles a tattoo. What is NZ best known for, aside from its good friendly people: beautiful green hills, sheep raising, sailing on its local seas and bays, and last but not least, peaceful good government. British heritage. Be proud of it.
4
Thanks God when the decision on the new Canadian Flag was made it wasn't subject to a great deal of public consultation or a referendum. That sounds odd coming from a democracy, but they made a great choice in the face of much opposition as I recall the story. Now Canadians love the flag and its simple distinctiveness.
6
I agree New Zealand needs an easy to draw distinctive flag. I like the simple kouru which very quickly would be recognizable around the world. Yet it has more meaning than the Red Peak design in my opinion.
1
The Koru design looks like a Maori tattoo -- what if Canada had a tribal totemic symbol on its flag? Would you think that would make Canadians feel good about themselves? Frankly, I love the Maple Leaf on your flag, but you should have kept the Union Jack in the corner, changed the rest to white, added the leaf.
Hawaii still has the Union Flag on it's State flag so how urgent can it be for New Zealand to change?
4
I just want to say, photo printing is very possible these days and shouldn't be out of line, expense-wise. No other country has such a flag. Why not a realistic mountain range done in graphic black and white, with an accent of red somewhere?
1
A better headline for this story would have been, "Prime Minister John Key Pulls National Ponytail As Joke; Nation Not Amused".
6
I'm not from New Zealand , but if I was, I'd certainly want to change the flag. Their current flag is annoyingly dominated by UK's flag, and it's too similar to the Australian flag. There's barely anything unique about it. I'd certainly go for the white fern on black. It looks terrific and just screams New Zealand.
1
As a designer I think a flag's design should be simple enough for a kid to draw on a notebook. Simple enough for anyone to copy anywhere. Patriotism should be easy to express.
To that end, the "Red Peak" is a truly great design. I would vote for that if I were a Kiwi. It seems like a traditional flag design, but feels completely new. It could even work in black and white. Simple yet rich - a really good design.
The fern designs are very interesting and meaningful, but way too complex.
To that end, the "Red Peak" is a truly great design. I would vote for that if I were a Kiwi. It seems like a traditional flag design, but feels completely new. It could even work in black and white. Simple yet rich - a really good design.
The fern designs are very interesting and meaningful, but way too complex.
3
"Red Peak" may be a great design but it does not speak of New Zealand; the design originated in the USA.
There is a flag already in use in NZ for many years, which the Government could have chosen without the $26 million cost -if they had been brave enough.
The National Maori (Tino Rangitiratanga) flag whose design is outstanding and uniquely ours, would have proudly acknowledged our history better than any of those offered in the expensive and pointless referendum process.
http://www.mch.govt.nz/nz-identity-heritage/flags/national-m%C4%81ori-flag
There is a flag already in use in NZ for many years, which the Government could have chosen without the $26 million cost -if they had been brave enough.
The National Maori (Tino Rangitiratanga) flag whose design is outstanding and uniquely ours, would have proudly acknowledged our history better than any of those offered in the expensive and pointless referendum process.
http://www.mch.govt.nz/nz-identity-heritage/flags/national-m%C4%81ori-flag
1
As an American, NZ's flag is not my call. But for what it's worth, I've always admired your existing flag... the sea, the Southern Cross, the historical tie to Britain.
On the other hand, the silver or white fern is terrific. I could get used to seeing it.
On the other hand, the silver or white fern is terrific. I could get used to seeing it.
1
Too bad; a great people with a great heritage, thinking about turning their backs on the past. The alternative flags seem to me to be more like Pagan totems than the present one, which stands for the British ideals of respect for the rule of law and the rights of man. Thus goeth civilization...
2
There wasnt much respect for the rights of man or the rule of law when it came to brutal British and American imperialism against people of the wrong race and religion.
2
If the Prime Minister John Key were honest there would be a option to keep the current flag which most want to do. How can this then be called a "democratic process".
There actually is that option. The first vote is for which alternate flag design is the preferred option. Then that winning design goes up against the existing flag in a second vote. The outcome of the second vote is almost certainly (based on ALL opinion polls to date) going to be the existing flag. That is why so many in NZ are questioning the millions of dollars of tax-payer funds being spent to fund this nonsense.
1
I like all of those.
Lots of graphic designers are obsessed with flags. I am one of them. Maybe it's the effect of also being in love with Olympic graphics which of course highlight national identities. Maybe it's the early exposure to Japan's glorious '64 Olympic design work, that I have a particular fondness for elegant simplicity.
The thing is, I've learned through many identity campaigns, change is hard, and new design acceptance has little to do with design, and much to do with basic nostalgia and sentimentality.
Having said that 'Red Peak' is a beautiful flag. Stunning in its simplicity, and its accomplishment in honoring the nation's natural, ethnic and colonial origins.
The thing is, I've learned through many identity campaigns, change is hard, and new design acceptance has little to do with design, and much to do with basic nostalgia and sentimentality.
Having said that 'Red Peak' is a beautiful flag. Stunning in its simplicity, and its accomplishment in honoring the nation's natural, ethnic and colonial origins.
4
It's "The Union Flag" and not "The Union Jack Flag." It's only "The Union Jack" when flying at sea.
3
Confusing... Key was in front of the wrong flag! If he can't sort that out maybe it isn't the flag that should go. What's next? Drop the English portion of the national anthem.
1
Many New Zealanders are complaining about the price of the referendum, the bulk of which is going on postage. Indeed, I agree it is an exorbitant amount of money, but as a nation we voted in a Parliament who promised to do just this. My concern is that the flag is merely a band-aid on the far deeper need for New Zealand to have a serious discussion about our constitution. While people are panicking changing the flag will cut ties with Britain we are clearly not in the place to have it!
I, like many New Zealanders, signed the petition to include the Red Peak design. The final four selections were disappointing and failed to showcase the vast array of appropriate motifs seen in the submissions. The designs (Red Peak aside) are too complicated to be easily replicated -- something we are told the Consideration Panel considered. I think the Red Peak has gained popularity because not only does it stand for something, but it is simple and was well marketed. I disliked the design when I first saw it, but it has grown on me.
I just hope that everyone who has been quick to judge takes the time to vote.
I, like many New Zealanders, signed the petition to include the Red Peak design. The final four selections were disappointing and failed to showcase the vast array of appropriate motifs seen in the submissions. The designs (Red Peak aside) are too complicated to be easily replicated -- something we are told the Consideration Panel considered. I think the Red Peak has gained popularity because not only does it stand for something, but it is simple and was well marketed. I disliked the design when I first saw it, but it has grown on me.
I just hope that everyone who has been quick to judge takes the time to vote.
2
We are not a British colony. Drop the Union Jack. A silver fern on a black background would be my choice. Unfortunately I don't have that option.
4
I'm proud to be married to a Kiwi; we're currently living in the UK, and enough with the Union Jack already.
While I agree John Key has fluffed this process by pushing a strong favorite of his own, I agree with his reasons for why a change of flag is needed. New Zealand is its own nation with a unique presence on the world stage, one which honors the culture of its Maori indigenous people - many of whom are active in government.
Too many ferns in NZ already, thanks to the awesome All Blacks (sorry Mr. Key). And we loved some of the other designs on offer before the list was reduced. For now, Red Peak is the standout and actually looks like a proper flag.
Hoping for a bright, bold change for this model democracy. Go Red Peak!
While I agree John Key has fluffed this process by pushing a strong favorite of his own, I agree with his reasons for why a change of flag is needed. New Zealand is its own nation with a unique presence on the world stage, one which honors the culture of its Maori indigenous people - many of whom are active in government.
Too many ferns in NZ already, thanks to the awesome All Blacks (sorry Mr. Key). And we loved some of the other designs on offer before the list was reduced. For now, Red Peak is the standout and actually looks like a proper flag.
Hoping for a bright, bold change for this model democracy. Go Red Peak!
4
If you choose to live in the UK you might have to put up with the Union Jack, awfully sorry about that. Perhaps we could come up with some alternate designs for the UK flag and you can choose your favourite, we will use that one until you choose to go home.
2
I think it's time for the Union Jack to go. Also, it might be embarrassing if a referendum vote retains the status quo but then shortly afterwards the blue cross of Scotland disappears from the UK flag. What then?
1
The present flag has better character to the choices that's offered. The cost is not justified. Not sure why it should take 18 million to reach a consensus? It could have been better spent on tackling real issues.
1
I'm from Wellington. I oppose changing the flag at the moment - the Union Jack and southern cross have represented New Zealand for our entire "modern history". The flag change is broadly seen as a vanity project for our Prime Minister, John Key, and it is often dragged out whenever the Govt wants to announce some bad news - the flag debate is a good distraction.
But for me, the main issue is not having the flag debate - I think that it is an important debate to have. But we have gone about it the wrong way. We haven't really had a national conversation about what it means to be a New Zealander, our culture or the future we want to see for our country, We have all of sudden decided our flag is too similar to Australia's and we should change it.
We've missed what I see as a very important step. A flag is not a "logo" used to sell products - that is what the Silver Fern is for. A flag represents who we are as a nation. So I think we have to take a step back and have that national conversation first.
Personally, I don't think we should be changing the flag until if/when we become a republic. That would be an important time to have a flag discussion. Otherwise it is just "change for the sake of change".
There's no appetite for change: just check how many people attended the community meetings. And the polls quoted in this article. It's bad timing, and bad designs. Just my two cents worth!
But for me, the main issue is not having the flag debate - I think that it is an important debate to have. But we have gone about it the wrong way. We haven't really had a national conversation about what it means to be a New Zealander, our culture or the future we want to see for our country, We have all of sudden decided our flag is too similar to Australia's and we should change it.
We've missed what I see as a very important step. A flag is not a "logo" used to sell products - that is what the Silver Fern is for. A flag represents who we are as a nation. So I think we have to take a step back and have that national conversation first.
Personally, I don't think we should be changing the flag until if/when we become a republic. That would be an important time to have a flag discussion. Otherwise it is just "change for the sake of change".
There's no appetite for change: just check how many people attended the community meetings. And the polls quoted in this article. It's bad timing, and bad designs. Just my two cents worth!
5
It is a gross misuse of money at a time when NZ sadly has a high poverty rate and one of the largest gaps between the rich and poor in the OECD. Very far from the values that this country was founded on.
3
It is all the vanity of a Prime Minister seeking a legacy. Instead of the $26 million going to help reduce New Zealand's shameful child hunger issues, he was more interested in changing the flag. A project of conceit by a shallow and vainglorious man.
2
John Key has rigged the process to get what *he* wants, not what *we* want. What he wants is a silver fern.
The whole process has been tainted by this, and does not feel like a robust and trustworthy process that would result in 4 genuinely different designs that could be the basis for debate.
I'm sticking with the status quo.
The whole process has been tainted by this, and does not feel like a robust and trustworthy process that would result in 4 genuinely different designs that could be the basis for debate.
I'm sticking with the status quo.
2
Unlike some other countries most people go for decades without seeing a flag. The only reason pirates and others had flags is that that cellphones and branded sails hadn't been invented at the time but I digress.
The process here is very interesting. If I have it correct we are being asked to vote on 1 of the 5 preferred options first and then if we want to keep the old flag. I think that is a smart way to do it but having 3 of the choices being the same fern logo is not much of a choice at all.
If we have to change I'd vote for Red Peak just because it is the outsider and the PM hates it. I think the design panel was manipulated to pick only options which included a fern and didn't take on board any actual flag design input.
My best guess is we will be stuck with the same old flag which is almost identical to Australia's one. If we have to change it should be to something bold like Red Peak.
The process here is very interesting. If I have it correct we are being asked to vote on 1 of the 5 preferred options first and then if we want to keep the old flag. I think that is a smart way to do it but having 3 of the choices being the same fern logo is not much of a choice at all.
If we have to change I'd vote for Red Peak just because it is the outsider and the PM hates it. I think the design panel was manipulated to pick only options which included a fern and didn't take on board any actual flag design input.
My best guess is we will be stuck with the same old flag which is almost identical to Australia's one. If we have to change it should be to something bold like Red Peak.
2
What we really need to do here is vote in a new prime minister.
2
Waste of time and money. This is what politicians will do to avoid doing anything useful.
2
It was quixotic of Mr. Key to think a new flag design could be more popular than the incumbent. And as it has played out, for every design that attracts some support, even more people don't like it.
A significant proportion of New Zealanders don't want to change out of principle. More New Zealanders still, while they are open to a change (if a really, really good design comes along), don't mind our current one.
Proponents for a change were relying on a 12-person panel of non-design experts to choose at least one really, really good new design. A design that needed to be thought unanimously wonderful among all New Zealanders open to a change.
As I said, a tall order. And a $26 million, politically-fraught one at that.
(On a personal note: We ought to have a better flag, and I saw better designs that weren't even long-listed. Our shortlist is disappointing but I am open to "Red Peak" as a not-embarrassing, compromise option. Most New Zealanders won't be.)
A significant proportion of New Zealanders don't want to change out of principle. More New Zealanders still, while they are open to a change (if a really, really good design comes along), don't mind our current one.
Proponents for a change were relying on a 12-person panel of non-design experts to choose at least one really, really good new design. A design that needed to be thought unanimously wonderful among all New Zealanders open to a change.
As I said, a tall order. And a $26 million, politically-fraught one at that.
(On a personal note: We ought to have a better flag, and I saw better designs that weren't even long-listed. Our shortlist is disappointing but I am open to "Red Peak" as a not-embarrassing, compromise option. Most New Zealanders won't be.)
1
The designs look like weak corporate brandingCanada went through this with Lester Pearson, who was warned that there would be nothing but political trouble. And when Lenny Bruce was asked when visiting Canada what he thought about s country that didn't have its own flag, said "well, that's a start."
1
I have to agree with the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", comment. Prime Minister John Key's MO here is a nationalistic feint to distract from his neolib demolishing of New Zealand's values of fairness and sharing.
The real problem in New Zealand is that so many its citizens are gulled by this ex-currency trader's vanity, and the culture of greed he personifies.
The real problem in New Zealand is that so many its citizens are gulled by this ex-currency trader's vanity, and the culture of greed he personifies.
2
Not asked for.
Overpriced (it is by special referendum rather that the next election cycle)
Stupid choices.
Overpriced (it is by special referendum rather that the next election cycle)
Stupid choices.
11
I think it's important to reiterate that the criticisms are not just about the design choices, but also the huge cost of having two referendums and Key's use of the flag change as a distraction from other politics. But while agreeing with some of the criticisms, I still think if we have to have the referendums we may as well go with the red peak because it better represents our values and culture. The current flag ignores the Maori part of the equation and isn't exactly original.
10
I concur, this process ins nothing but a vanity project and an attempt to distrct us from real issues. Out gvmt has no credibility. I'll vote to keep our current flag. It'll be gone before long anyway as Britain crumbles.
1
I believe that it is time for New Zealand to begin carving our own national identity beyond our ties to the British Commonwealth, and the beginning of this is through the Red Peaks flag. This is a sophisticated design, and I believe that it represents the Kiwi culture better than the current flag. However, I also think it is important to recognise the politics behind the flag change referendum, and how John Key (the Prime Minister) is using this to divert attention away from controversial policies and issues.
8
I don't think many people in NZ think that the red peaks design is sophisticated at all, but rather a safety flag or warning sign, and it is a very harsh design. Key is doing this to leave his mark on NZ in some permanent way, not to divert attention away from other issues as you claim. I find it amazing how the reporters make claims that all New Zealanders are against the flag change when it is hardly a talking point except for the odd letter to the editor and an odd comment on radio talk back, but most people are just going to go along with the flag change process and maybe a new flag will be chosen.
1
All the alternatives look terrible and the three peaks version is the worst of all. What if the All Blacks lose on Saturday? Will the silver fern still apply?
2
Kiwi here. I would vote to change to a black flag bearing the silver (or white) fern as seen on the All Blacks uniform, but none of the proposed options, which are rightly criticised in my opinion. Kiwis already rally behind All Black silver fern motif. Many wear it as a tattoo. That this is not an option in the referendum because some think it might be confused for the ISIS Black Standard is ridiculous.
Kiwis are by and large, a reasonably progressive people. Should the current flag be retained, as I believe is likely, the result should be interpreted as a rejection of the alternative proposals, not as a national aversion to change.
Kiwis are by and large, a reasonably progressive people. Should the current flag be retained, as I believe is likely, the result should be interpreted as a rejection of the alternative proposals, not as a national aversion to change.
6
The three peaks choice is bold, original and symbolic. I like it alot.
4
I love the koru flag! Great design. All of them are better than the existing one.
1
cmon keep it simple - all these looked like they are from photo -shop
2
A national symbol retired by it's own people, what next?
6