Emotion always trumps reason. You cannot fight this sort of discrimination with logic but with the same weapon the "other side" is using, just as #wejustneedtopee so aptly did. Never abandon logic, just don't depend on it to win any arguments against fear mongers. I wish Houston and everyone fighting for equal rights all the best.
Don't ask me how many times at ball games, rock concerts and other events I and other women have used men's restrooms because the lines for the women's restrooms were too long.
And when bring pretty big male kids into our restrooms because they do not want their kids molested in the men's rooms. I think we women can handle men in the same restroom
And when bring pretty big male kids into our restrooms because they do not want their kids molested in the men's rooms. I think we women can handle men in the same restroom
Has anyone noticed the lines in the women's restrooms? Ever missed making an intermission deadline at the theater or second half? Ever watched the female of a couple in a restaurant take seven and eight year olds to the women's restroom while her husband sits with his drink? Because, of course, the men's room is unsafe for boys. But, of course, they are too old to be in a stall with said mother.
Let's just pull the urinals out, build stalls, and declare all unisex.
Let's just pull the urinals out, build stalls, and declare all unisex.
2
Another of the endless examples of why religion must be kept from interfering with governance and civil rights. Invoking god and religious dogma fails the constitutional separation of church and state. If we value democracy, equality and freedom, religion must be kept where it belongs — in hearts and minds but not in public policy.
Eclectic Pragmatist — http://eclectic-pragmatist.tumblr.com/
Eclectic Pragmatist — https://medium.com/eclectic-pragmatism
Eclectic Pragmatist — http://eclectic-pragmatist.tumblr.com/
Eclectic Pragmatist — https://medium.com/eclectic-pragmatism
I am a religious person. Thank God I also am practical and have common sense. These right wing religious conservatives continue to give religion a bad name, as does radicalism in the name of religion in any faith does. The lack of common sense in their arguments becomes apparent when they make claims that only people who think like them will accept. But I notice that they don't threaten to leave Houston because of this ordinance or leave the US because same-sex marriage has become law.
I fear many, like myself, misunderstand the word "transgender" Having just read the Wikipedia article, I now know the term "transsexual" and its difference: Principally, it seems one can declare oneself to be transgender -- identifying with the sex opposite that one was born as -- without undergoing physical alteration.
Very simple: If you still have your penis, use the men's room. If you don't: Your option.
Why not have the law simply state that? Too blunt? This is Texas, we're used to direct talk.
Very simple: If you still have your penis, use the men's room. If you don't: Your option.
Why not have the law simply state that? Too blunt? This is Texas, we're used to direct talk.
4
"... his congregation “should not be forced to normalize lifestyle choices that God says ‘no’ to.”
Which mythical supernatural psyche does "God" refer to in this context? We don't know because there are thousands of god-concepts and god-stories (theologies); "God" is merely the English name for one--like naming your son "Boy."
These people not only believe mythologies, but they believe they have the right to force their fiction on everyone else. Albeit circuitously--their toilet rights imply duties for everyone else.
Freedom of religion is like freedom of the flat Earth Society. It's barely tolerable as a personal, private matter--your right to be foolish--to be mentally disordered--to see reality through a theology.
But to give it standing in public policy debate is itself a political--communal disorder. It's like legislating--creating rights for some and duties for others--because Santa Claus (St. Claus) says so.
Oh--how many variations on Father Christmas or Father Winter Solstice are there?
Which mythical supernatural psyche does "God" refer to in this context? We don't know because there are thousands of god-concepts and god-stories (theologies); "God" is merely the English name for one--like naming your son "Boy."
These people not only believe mythologies, but they believe they have the right to force their fiction on everyone else. Albeit circuitously--their toilet rights imply duties for everyone else.
Freedom of religion is like freedom of the flat Earth Society. It's barely tolerable as a personal, private matter--your right to be foolish--to be mentally disordered--to see reality through a theology.
But to give it standing in public policy debate is itself a political--communal disorder. It's like legislating--creating rights for some and duties for others--because Santa Claus (St. Claus) says so.
Oh--how many variations on Father Christmas or Father Winter Solstice are there?
3
I am confused. We are arguing about women's restrooms, but why is it called a "women's" restroom if anybody can go in it?
5
What is it with Texas? Is a political tradition driving culture and attitude or is it the other way around? All of this just seems so trivial and unnecessary.
1
Most Americans believe that they can do whatever they wish because the constitution gives them permission....no matter if what they do is moral or immoral, decent or indecent, or right or wrong. With this kind of total freedom the future will have no need of prisons, law enforcement agencies, nor law books. Why? Because if the law allows you to do what you want, then there is no wrong you can do.
God is good and wise. There is a Heaven for those who follow the word of God. Those that fail to follow the goodness of God live in a state of confusion. There is darkness for those who wish to do as they wish. Atheists say they do not believe in the existence of God nor in the existence of Satan. Atheists are asked how they are able to discern between decent and indecent, between moral and immoral, and between right and wrong when raising a family and little children. Atheists are asked if they depend on the supreme court and man’s laws to provide those answers. Atheists are asked if their parents and families taught them right from wrong. Atheists are asked if their past generations of family histories were founded in Christianity, the Bible, church and God. Their answer is I believe in no one, I am who I am, I answer to no one, and I do what I want to do.
Blessed are those who do not see yet believe. To those who believe in His name: who are born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
God is good and wise. There is a Heaven for those who follow the word of God. Those that fail to follow the goodness of God live in a state of confusion. There is darkness for those who wish to do as they wish. Atheists say they do not believe in the existence of God nor in the existence of Satan. Atheists are asked how they are able to discern between decent and indecent, between moral and immoral, and between right and wrong when raising a family and little children. Atheists are asked if they depend on the supreme court and man’s laws to provide those answers. Atheists are asked if their parents and families taught them right from wrong. Atheists are asked if their past generations of family histories were founded in Christianity, the Bible, church and God. Their answer is I believe in no one, I am who I am, I answer to no one, and I do what I want to do.
Blessed are those who do not see yet believe. To those who believe in His name: who are born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
2
Political (Social) Correctness out of control.
3
It appears that unGodly Americans will not rest until they succeed in bringing down upon this country God's wrath and judgment (which most false prophets fail to preach). Apparently they are unaware of the 31-29 warnings.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. (Hebrews 10:31 - - - The Holy Bible)
29 For our God is a consuming fire. (Hebrews 12:29 - - - The Holy Bible)
My advice to American Christians: Pray (continuously) the Abrahamic Intercessory Prayer (Genesis 18:25).
www.ltgof.net
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. (Hebrews 10:31 - - - The Holy Bible)
29 For our God is a consuming fire. (Hebrews 12:29 - - - The Holy Bible)
My advice to American Christians: Pray (continuously) the Abrahamic Intercessory Prayer (Genesis 18:25).
www.ltgof.net
1
This just isn't as simple as this article makes it out to be. I ask: "Why do we have separate gender bathrooms to begin with?" Isn't it because some people would be uncomfortable having the other gender in the loo with them? Is this inappropriate discrimination? Although I myself would not be, perhaps it is reasonable for some women, for example, to be uncomfortable with a transgender woman (who started out as a man). Let's have a little tolerance for other people's feelings - it's just not simple issue. At least until we require women to share their bathrooms with men and vice versa.
3
Those who have male equipment should use the men's restroom and those who have female equipment should use the women's restroom. That's why they're labeled "MEN" and "WOMEN." I see nothing "unequal" about that. People should be able to do their "business" without worrying about voyeurs and gapers pretending to be trans-gender. Most public toilet stalls are not all that private and urinals have no privacy at all. Surely for the tiny percentage of people who're gender confused there can be some single-stall public restrooms available without gender designations.
4
"...As of mid-October, HERO’s numbers were up: 45 percent in favor, 36 percent opposed, with 20 percent undecided..."
___
Really? Let's go to the chalkboard:
45+36=81
81+20=101
And, where is the kerfuffle about transgender women going into the men's restrooms?
___
Really? Let's go to the chalkboard:
45+36=81
81+20=101
And, where is the kerfuffle about transgender women going into the men's restrooms?
It is ludicrous to claim "No minister, anywhere, should ever have to submit a sermon to a government censor,...," if the church is to be tax-exempt.
2
This story is exactly what happened in Springfield, MO. Exactly, including requests for the sermons (dropped) down to use of the same words to create fear of assaults in bathrooms (which is already against the law and hasn't happened elsewhere where such ordinances have passed). One has to wonder if there's some kind of evangelical ALEC out there. The ordinance in Springfield was overturned in a low-turnout election, 51-49%. The good "Christian" purveyors of hate and discrimination of SW Missouri are safe for now, though one has to wonder about this perverted brand of Christianity that ignores most of what Jesus actually preached.
2
The so called "Hero" argument in Houston has been handled so poorly by the new same-sex selected city mayor that she should resign. Her decisions (subpoenaing sermons, really??) have set the gay rights movement back with straights in the city for years. Years.
How can we possibly have separate gender restrooms based on ANYTHING other than plumbing? Anything else is a non-starter, and will cause fear and confusion from coast to coast in my opinion.
Really a sad chapter in the movement to normalize same-sex sex. Poorly handled all the way around.
WR
How can we possibly have separate gender restrooms based on ANYTHING other than plumbing? Anything else is a non-starter, and will cause fear and confusion from coast to coast in my opinion.
Really a sad chapter in the movement to normalize same-sex sex. Poorly handled all the way around.
WR
5
Being a straight, White, native Texan -- and having lived in Houston for a good part of my adult life (though CA and Santa Fe is my "real home") -- I strongly support this Ordinance.
Just one more positive point for Houston -- probably the most sophisticated (and fun) city I've ever lived in (including London, NYC, San Francisco and Los Angeles).
It's the international oil community. Incredible people that speak five languages (or more), extensively traveled all over the world, wined and dined with Kings, Queens, Prime Ministers, etc, etc.
My friends are astounded when I say this about Houston -- esp considering the other places I've lived. But, that's what I think.
You GO, Houston! Show Texas what it's like to truly be open and free.
Just one more positive point for Houston -- probably the most sophisticated (and fun) city I've ever lived in (including London, NYC, San Francisco and Los Angeles).
It's the international oil community. Incredible people that speak five languages (or more), extensively traveled all over the world, wined and dined with Kings, Queens, Prime Ministers, etc, etc.
My friends are astounded when I say this about Houston -- esp considering the other places I've lived. But, that's what I think.
You GO, Houston! Show Texas what it's like to truly be open and free.
What federal and state regulations require separate facilities for men and women? Are they enforced? It's ludicrous to require separate facilities for men and women then insist it's ok for men to invade facilities designed for women. Then we prosecute those who pee in the streets when no facilities are available. It's a natural function. If we have laws to dictate course facilities, build them on streetcorners for all to use. Our open co-use facilities in homes for public use. Really, it's a bit strange to force builders to pay for separate male-female facilities and then let men and women pee freely wherever they gotta go except in the streets.
3
Anyone ever heard of uni-sex bathrooms? They're all the rage in lots of countries, save money in construction costs and utilize space more efficiently, afford everyone who uses them privacy , conserve fresh water, and everyone can micturate and have bowel movements in peace and quiet without regard as to who may or may not be in an adjoining water closet.
3
In the end, after gender-neutral bathrooms are the norm, the only ones who will be complaining are women. Guys couldn't care less if a woman is in the bathroom with them, it's the women who get grossed out by urine soaked floors and no toilet paper in the stalls. Come on in and have a seat!
7
As a woman I want to use the mens room the lines are always much shorter
4
Many women, particularly those who have been sexually abused, are not happy with the idea of physically stronger men transitioning in public ladies rooms. I don't care about any surgically complete transgender person in the ladies room with me, but I do care about those not complete.
4
If there is any way to create a phobia about sex, your run of the mill anglo-saxon conservative will find a way to do it. Fear, shame and guilt about sexual matters of all kinds seem to rule the day with many of these "well meaning" people that keep their heads well planted in the sand. I sincerely believe this sort of petty foolishness over who pees where and who may see what would be, and probably is laughed at by European countries.
3
When we are with family, including with extended family, and with friends, in each others homes, we all use the same bathroom without worrying that the different genitals will rub off. (I do imagine that in some homes in our culture people have separate bathrooms for the genders of the family members living in the home. This is likely the exception to the rule, genders share a bathroom(s) in homes.)
Unigender Bathrooms For All! UBA!
Unigender Bathrooms For All! UBA!
4
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...
There it is spelled out in the Bill of Rights, freedom of religion and freedom FROM religion.
As many posters have noted churches should lose their tax exempt status when they start making political statements based on their religious beliefs.
There it is spelled out in the Bill of Rights, freedom of religion and freedom FROM religion.
As many posters have noted churches should lose their tax exempt status when they start making political statements based on their religious beliefs.
2
The author shows her lack of intellectualism when she attempts to shame those who disagree with her. That's the very same MO too many liberals use instead of a well reasoned coherent argument. Worse, shaming only serves to divide.
It's quite simple to me. Your plumbing, so to speak, should dictate which bathroom you use. Being "transgender", an almost meaningless PC word, should not give anyone license to choose as they wish. You either have the full plumbing for the men's room or you have the full plumbing for the women's room.
So this now begs the question; what's the shame in what you are?
It's quite simple to me. Your plumbing, so to speak, should dictate which bathroom you use. Being "transgender", an almost meaningless PC word, should not give anyone license to choose as they wish. You either have the full plumbing for the men's room or you have the full plumbing for the women's room.
So this now begs the question; what's the shame in what you are?
5
Most restroom facilities have stalls, doors, locks, etc. to ensure adequate privacy for everyone. However, I find that the issue of genetic men in women's locker rooms at gyms or schools to be much more concerning. If you "identify" or "feel" that you are a woman, but yet still have a penis, you should use the facilities of your biological sex (male locker room facilities). Transgender activists keep assuring everyone that "gender" and "biological sex" are two separate things, and that's true - so now they need to accept that there will always still be both a desire and need for a few spaces separated by biological sex only. If clothing is being removed, genetic females have a right to change clothing in front of only other genetic females (and vice versa). Granted, there will be only a few scenarios where biological sex separation should occur (locker rooms being the most obvious one) but transgender people should be able to understand that there will always be this desire and need to do that, from the other 99.9% of the population.
5
As someone who grew up in Europe, being used to having women pass by urinals on their way to the ladies' room, I have to chuckle at this discussion. God forbid, the wrong person might be in the wrong bathroom.
Billions still defecate and urinate in the open due to lack of facilities and we are getting territorial about our bathrooms.
Billions still defecate and urinate in the open due to lack of facilities and we are getting territorial about our bathrooms.
4
"Echoing claims made in other parts of the United States, opponents also cited public safety . . . This . . . opponents claimed, . . . [could] allow a rapist impersonating a woman to skulk in and commit unspeakable crimes."
Um, what's to stop them from doing that now? If the criminal penalties against rape won't stop you, I doubt a fine for using the wrong bathroom will.
Um, what's to stop them from doing that now? If the criminal penalties against rape won't stop you, I doubt a fine for using the wrong bathroom will.
4
Right wing churches have been political for years. They should have lost their tax exemptions long ago.
3
The bathroom of the future will be a single room with private stalls. The larger the venue, the larger a separate private area for urinals. Privacy will still be protected for all. The degree of that privacy will be a practical function of the degree of how "public" the bathroom is. At a football game, not so much. At the office, quite a bit more. And at home ahhhhhh.
Primary and secondary school restrooms will have to manage the task of dealing with their immature clients.
But, the adult venues will of necessity, no longer cater to the phobias of the immature adult.
Primary and secondary school restrooms will have to manage the task of dealing with their immature clients.
But, the adult venues will of necessity, no longer cater to the phobias of the immature adult.
During my 22 years in the Air Force, starting in 1958, it was not unusual to go into a latrine on base where the individual stalls had no doors. I found that disconcerting. What's going on in Houston is merely religious bigotry. Evangelical fundamentalists always fret about the nonexistent war on Christianity.
1
Over the years I've used long troughs that were the norm in public restrooms from years ago. Ten to twenty men just stood there and did their business with no embarrassment. Or urinals that had no privacy panels between them. Today I see one man go into a public restroom and if the are two urinals and one is in use he goes to the stalls for privacy. What will they do when women decide to use any facility and tie up the stalls? And what has happened to men that they are so bashful?
A tempest in a toilet.
2
I wonder where Kaitlin Jennings and her REPUBLICAN friends are right now? Awfully quiet, I imagine. Or maybe working on another story to bring her some more $$$$$$$$$$$?
1
TX, need we say more!
At one time, those who exposed their penises to people of a different sex were called "flashers" and were arrested. The very wearing of a raincoast on a cloudless day could be enough to cast suspicion. Now, we seem to be encouraging more and more penises in women's restrooms. That is real progress.
7
The problems have already started with this new found freedom, there have been reversals at schools to this policy after men started entering women's bathrooms and using their phones to video women. Like that wasn't inevitable !
I bet you won't find many women ever entering a men's bathroom, or going about their business in a women's bathroom full of men !
I bet you won't find many women ever entering a men's bathroom, or going about their business in a women's bathroom full of men !
4
don't bet too much.
though when I have I have asked a man to check to see if anyone is in there. and even stay outside to warn fragile male flowers who equate special empty johns for men with the survival of western civilization.
though the place is usually a pit and it is illegal, sometimes we just have to go..
though when I have I have asked a man to check to see if anyone is in there. and even stay outside to warn fragile male flowers who equate special empty johns for men with the survival of western civilization.
though the place is usually a pit and it is illegal, sometimes we just have to go..
Tax exempt status for the organized religions means that basically the citizens are paying for the ads and legal actions against a law arrived at through the democratic actions of their representatives and elected officials. It is time to revisit tax-exempt status. I see no problem with allowing church operating expenses to be deducted from taxable income; having us pay for the political agenda of their pastors and administrators should not be allowed.
3
The Equal Rights Amendment to the US Constitution faltered, too, in part of claims over bathrooms. This was happening while I was attending an elite Ivy League university which had shared bathrooms (showers as well as toilet and sinks) for almost all of its students, except the freshman. It was not a problem.
2
Seen from over the pond, this is an incredible situation. It seems that parts of the USA are a century behind Europe in social thinking.
In Britain this issue of equality for gays and other minorities has been settled for almost a generation - gay marriage was legalized three years ago to complete the legislative framework, by a Conservative/Liberal coalition.
Perhaps the reason for the innate conservatism of many Americans is that the US workers and left-liberals failed to create a left wing political party that could fight for, and obtain, Federal government office. In Europe it is these left parties in government that have been at the forefront of legislating for equal rights.
In Britain this issue of equality for gays and other minorities has been settled for almost a generation - gay marriage was legalized three years ago to complete the legislative framework, by a Conservative/Liberal coalition.
Perhaps the reason for the innate conservatism of many Americans is that the US workers and left-liberals failed to create a left wing political party that could fight for, and obtain, Federal government office. In Europe it is these left parties in government that have been at the forefront of legislating for equal rights.
1
"Too much pluribus, not enough unum"
1
This whole discussion stinks.
Why, oh why, can't people with male parts just use the men's room? These people have seen a penis before, while my four=year-old granddaughter has not!
11
Can you even believe that this is an issue. If a biological man passing as a woman uses the ladies' restroom, how on earth would anyone know? If a biological woman passing as a man used the men's restroom how would anyone know if she used a stall rather than a urinal?
The reason for the law is not to prevent lawsuits, it is an invitation to create a new protected class that will have the right to sue.
It's on a par with the demand that artisans participate in same sex wedding or be sued out of business. Agree with the agenda or die.
The reason for the law is not to prevent lawsuits, it is an invitation to create a new protected class that will have the right to sue.
It's on a par with the demand that artisans participate in same sex wedding or be sued out of business. Agree with the agenda or die.
6
We live in a secular nation with freedom of and from religion. I am an MIT educated engineer/physicist. I don't want my grandkids taught creationist nonsense as Bobby Jindal has snuck into Louisiana public schools. Fat chance of that happening in Seattle. But my point is that in a constitutionally secular country, religious supposed rights should never trump civil rights. 50 years ago, most of the Houston white preachers would have been defending segregation from the pulpits as Jerry Falwell did Virginia. What these Houston ministers apparently want is their version of Sharia law.
1
The bathroom fight now being used all over the country (including here in Indiana) is totally cynical. Fear-mongering, lies and distortions? Absolutely. The radical religious right will do anything to stop LGBT equality. They don't care about the consequences, much less the truth. They want to stop Gay rights in its tracks. They just want to defeat HERO no matter what. And they think they have a winner this time with their made-up stories about men who "wake up one day and decide to be women" going into bathrooms and locker rooms to wreak havoc.
They have always lied about Gay people. The Alliance Defending Freedom, founded by James Dobson, Donald Wildmon, D. James Kennedy and others, exists for the sole purpose of denying human and civil rights to LGBTs. They seldom win in the courts, but they are good at forcing a referendum like Houston's. In the campaign all they have to do is control the narrative ("bathroom rapists!") to win. And Houston Mayor Annise Parker played right into their hands with her public meltdown.
If the right-wing zealots win there, we will hear the exact same claims in Indiana when the legislature convenes in January. But the anti-Gay faction will be armed with an additional weapon; Gay rights laws are losers, we just won in the 4th largest city!
To win, use 3 messages: anti-discrimination, business climate and attacking the bullying cabal. It may be too late for Houston, but not for my state.
They have always lied about Gay people. The Alliance Defending Freedom, founded by James Dobson, Donald Wildmon, D. James Kennedy and others, exists for the sole purpose of denying human and civil rights to LGBTs. They seldom win in the courts, but they are good at forcing a referendum like Houston's. In the campaign all they have to do is control the narrative ("bathroom rapists!") to win. And Houston Mayor Annise Parker played right into their hands with her public meltdown.
If the right-wing zealots win there, we will hear the exact same claims in Indiana when the legislature convenes in January. But the anti-Gay faction will be armed with an additional weapon; Gay rights laws are losers, we just won in the 4th largest city!
To win, use 3 messages: anti-discrimination, business climate and attacking the bullying cabal. It may be too late for Houston, but not for my state.
3
Ms Schwartz
I am curious to your extensive background with rapists? Can you delineate the general pathology that they follow? Each has their own specific. I ask this because I was a parole agent for the Department of Juvenile Justice in California for 23 years. One of my units during my career was Oak. It was the sex offenders unit. And I read more offense histories, read more psych evaluations and participated in more intensive counseling sessions than you can possibly imagine. You cannot begin to understand how they are wired and how they reason. It's unlike anything you can see. If a woman's restroom was barely used, for instance, that increases the likelihood that it could be used since they often target sites that are poorly lit, sparse foot traffic and gives them the best opportunity to carry their attack out.
Second, I wonder if this mayor would screen the comments of a Muslim mosque. Does the author realize that under Islamic law a homosexual will probably be killed? It is considered an abomination. Why didn't the mayor examine from this perspective? So she wanted to force pastor's to basically have their sermon's approved for content? Maybe someone should hand her a copy of the Constitution and any number of cases regarding free speech. When I first heard about this I shook my head. It's no different than abortion or birth control. Both are prohibited under Islam but you never see the left go after therm. It's only Christians. They don't fight back
I am curious to your extensive background with rapists? Can you delineate the general pathology that they follow? Each has their own specific. I ask this because I was a parole agent for the Department of Juvenile Justice in California for 23 years. One of my units during my career was Oak. It was the sex offenders unit. And I read more offense histories, read more psych evaluations and participated in more intensive counseling sessions than you can possibly imagine. You cannot begin to understand how they are wired and how they reason. It's unlike anything you can see. If a woman's restroom was barely used, for instance, that increases the likelihood that it could be used since they often target sites that are poorly lit, sparse foot traffic and gives them the best opportunity to carry their attack out.
Second, I wonder if this mayor would screen the comments of a Muslim mosque. Does the author realize that under Islamic law a homosexual will probably be killed? It is considered an abomination. Why didn't the mayor examine from this perspective? So she wanted to force pastor's to basically have their sermon's approved for content? Maybe someone should hand her a copy of the Constitution and any number of cases regarding free speech. When I first heard about this I shook my head. It's no different than abortion or birth control. Both are prohibited under Islam but you never see the left go after therm. It's only Christians. They don't fight back
4
Some corrections: Islam does address abortion, and considers the soul to have entered the body at four months, after which abortions are forbidden.
This is not in the Koran but rather in hadiths (commentary) and learned opinions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_abortion. Opinions vary on birth control and trying to avoid pregnancy.
Homosexuality in Islam is more complex, certainly there are predominantly Islamic countries where it is a capital crime. Some of these countries have a development level similar to 1776 America; all 13 colonies had the death penalty for male homosexuality. Fast forward to 2015 and it is by no means unheard of for homosexuals in the US to be subject to extrajudicial killing. Probably good to get our own house in order without worrying too much about Islamic bogeymen.
http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1061&conte...
This is not in the Koran but rather in hadiths (commentary) and learned opinions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_abortion. Opinions vary on birth control and trying to avoid pregnancy.
Homosexuality in Islam is more complex, certainly there are predominantly Islamic countries where it is a capital crime. Some of these countries have a development level similar to 1776 America; all 13 colonies had the death penalty for male homosexuality. Fast forward to 2015 and it is by no means unheard of for homosexuals in the US to be subject to extrajudicial killing. Probably good to get our own house in order without worrying too much about Islamic bogeymen.
http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1061&conte...
Val in Brooklyn, NY
There's a fight about bathrooms in 2015? With articles on the Greenland ice sheet melting, a cop grabbing a student by the neck and dragging them to the floor, a screwed up budget from a non-functional Congress and ISIS, etc., I see a title about bathroom rights?
I'm more annoyed with people who don't curb their dogs. Can we all just agree on mutual respect, not attacking each other, those with children, just watch them and as Passion for Peaches said, if ya gotta go, just friggin' go, already! Solved!!
Submitted 10-28-15@12:45 a.m.
There's a fight about bathrooms in 2015? With articles on the Greenland ice sheet melting, a cop grabbing a student by the neck and dragging them to the floor, a screwed up budget from a non-functional Congress and ISIS, etc., I see a title about bathroom rights?
I'm more annoyed with people who don't curb their dogs. Can we all just agree on mutual respect, not attacking each other, those with children, just watch them and as Passion for Peaches said, if ya gotta go, just friggin' go, already! Solved!!
Submitted 10-28-15@12:45 a.m.
Now that trans rights are trendy, there is a rush to open up womens' bathrooms to men who identify as women as a common sense solution. Why deny the "burly, bearded transgender male cowboy" the right to use the ladies room? When you give him the right to go there, many women will feel uncomfortable with him sharing their private space along with any other characters who "identify as female." This creates a hostile environment for some females who don't wish to share their bathroom and takes away their right to use the bathroom without men sitting next to them. Further, who is going to judge who is qualified to go in the ladies room. ("is a man with a dress and a beard ok?") The police will have no interest in enforcing this and various peepers and up skirt voyeurs will wander in a claim that they "identify as female" if there is a complaint. Bottom line: women will avoid public bathrooms in Houston and their rights will be taken away.
6
Annise Parker, 1st gay big-city mayor? Depends on your definition. Sam Adams was mayor (not "elected mayor") of Portland on Jan. 1, 2009. "Big city"??? Portland is one of the 30 biggest cities in the country. Guess it depends on how you define, and therefore meaningless.
2
Somehow, in France, there seem to be a lot of co-ed public bathrooms, and the French Republic has survived.
5
Nope. When there are several bathrooms (washroom + stall(s)), they're always segregated; and when there's only one, it's on a one-at-a-time basis, with people waiting outside, not within the same enclosed washroom.
1
The best public bathrooms are the ones with fully enclosed stalls, with real doors on them, and no one can see or hear anything. They function a lot like the rows of porta-johns at festivals, you only see people washing their hands, or at least you hope they do.
6
His hashtag: #wejustneedtopee.
(I am not going to improve on that.)
(I am not going to improve on that.)
1
In Texas, keeping a "healthy bidness climate" trumps everything. This time it's a good thing. With apologies to Molly Ivins.
I find gender-segregated bathrooms unnecessary. When I have to pee, I have to pee. When there is a long line in the ladies' (I am female), I will use the men's. I prefer the women's only because it is generally cleaner, but ultimately I prefer no wait. I've gotten some strange looks but hey get over it-we all have to pee! And most of us over the age of 2 know there are anatomical differences but everyone pees! Why are we all so gender obsessed and overly modest?
2
When Phyllis Schafly claimed that the ERA would lead to unisex bathrooms, she was pilloried as a fool. Now that the peddlers of "gender theory" hokum would have us believe that men have vaginas, women penises, and there are fifty shades of sex, we suddenly have a "right" to (confused) men using women's restrooms .... and those that think that confusion is a "civil right."
4
Phyllis Schlafly is a fool, gender is different from sex, and everyone enjoys the same civil rights as you. Deal with it.
Why was the issue of the tax exempt religious organizations using their sermons for politicking dropped so easily? Because Rand Paul said so?
1
Although it is an issue tangential to the article, I think it is about time this country re-examine the tax-exempt status of religious organizations. Why are they tax-exempt in the first place?
Certainly, religious liberty is important. But since when did you need a tax exemption to get together and pray?
Certainly, religious liberty is important. But since when did you need a tax exemption to get together and pray?
4
I never cease to be amazed by the bizarre phobias and neurosis that drive the public discourse of this country. It seems to me Americans have better things to be scared about than who else is using the same public bathroom.
9
As a transwoman who regularly uses public restrooms, here are my thoughts:
1) I will not move to a city or state which does not have equal civil rights protections for trans people. While the bigoted and ignorant of Houston are freaking out about nonexistent perverts in the bathroom, were I a resident I'd be freaking out at the possibility of being fired simply because I was outed to a particularly backwards boss. If I don't have legal protection, I don't live there, and given that I'm a software engineer, that's a loss to the businesses and tax base of the city in question. Houston's preachers hear "men in the ladies room", I hear "no civil rights" and "doesn't want my tax dollars".
2) I look like a woman, sound like a woman, and am, for lack of a better term, anatomically correct. It also says 'F' on my driver's license, passport, birth certificate, and social security records. If people are worried about perverts in the bathroom, and want to screen entry, they better have on site chromosomal testing available.
3) Even when I was early in transition and not particularly convincing in my femininity, I still never had an incident in a public restroom. These days, if I wanted to cause an incident, the best way to do it would be to use the men's room.
The only practical effect of this ordinance failing will be Houston saying it doesn't want LGBT people to be equally protected under the law and doesn't want their contributions to the city. It's their loss.
1) I will not move to a city or state which does not have equal civil rights protections for trans people. While the bigoted and ignorant of Houston are freaking out about nonexistent perverts in the bathroom, were I a resident I'd be freaking out at the possibility of being fired simply because I was outed to a particularly backwards boss. If I don't have legal protection, I don't live there, and given that I'm a software engineer, that's a loss to the businesses and tax base of the city in question. Houston's preachers hear "men in the ladies room", I hear "no civil rights" and "doesn't want my tax dollars".
2) I look like a woman, sound like a woman, and am, for lack of a better term, anatomically correct. It also says 'F' on my driver's license, passport, birth certificate, and social security records. If people are worried about perverts in the bathroom, and want to screen entry, they better have on site chromosomal testing available.
3) Even when I was early in transition and not particularly convincing in my femininity, I still never had an incident in a public restroom. These days, if I wanted to cause an incident, the best way to do it would be to use the men's room.
The only practical effect of this ordinance failing will be Houston saying it doesn't want LGBT people to be equally protected under the law and doesn't want their contributions to the city. It's their loss.
16
I don't have a problem IF you're "anatomically correct" (a loose term here, indeed). But you're wrong about perverts. They exist and will seize the opportunity to prey on their victims. Also, you're not going to convince anyone who disagrees with you when with ad hominem name calling. But go ahead and call people who don't think like you bigots. You'll lose the argument each and every time.
2
Laws similar to this ordinance exist statewide in 20 US states and nearly every major US city, including all other Texan metropoles. If, as you assert, this law is going to open the floodgates for perverts and peeping toms, then there should be ample evidence of such an epidemic in all the places where cities and states were so "foolish" as to pass these laws. Except that no epidemic has occurred, life has continued as normal, and the people who screamed the loudest were the ones who ended up looking foolish.
If I sound angry it's because I am. As the Houston mayor said, "this is my life." You may enjoy universal civil rights in every state and municipality, but I do not. If I lived in Houston, these posts, in which I've done nothing but disclose what genitals I was born with, were they linked back to me, would be sufficient grounds to fire me from my job and evict from my apartment and to deny me service in a restaurant or hotel. So yes, that makes me angry, particularly when progress on the issue is stalled out by people who have never met a trans person or know the first thing about what being trans is. Generally we call people who act out of ignorance ignorant, and if that action is further motivated by prejudice, we also call them bigots. You call it name calling, I call it the definitions of the terms.
I can hear the judgement in your tone, but just be aware that I, and historical progress, can judge back.
If I sound angry it's because I am. As the Houston mayor said, "this is my life." You may enjoy universal civil rights in every state and municipality, but I do not. If I lived in Houston, these posts, in which I've done nothing but disclose what genitals I was born with, were they linked back to me, would be sufficient grounds to fire me from my job and evict from my apartment and to deny me service in a restaurant or hotel. So yes, that makes me angry, particularly when progress on the issue is stalled out by people who have never met a trans person or know the first thing about what being trans is. Generally we call people who act out of ignorance ignorant, and if that action is further motivated by prejudice, we also call them bigots. You call it name calling, I call it the definitions of the terms.
I can hear the judgement in your tone, but just be aware that I, and historical progress, can judge back.
Government funds (i.e. my taxes) should not be spent on separating the sexes for what are essentially religious reasons. Publicly funded bathrooms, like most bathrooms in most college dorms and almost all bathrooms in Europe, should be co-ed. Anyone who is lucky enough to share a bathroom with my transgender daughter should be honored because she is a fine human being.
The Constitution's Bill of Rights outlaws establishment of religion. And by the way, the 2nd amendment only gives gun rights to 'a well ordered militia', and those rights are to serve in the army (which is the meaning of 'bear arms').
To see some other things we should do, go to YouTube and watch Comedy Party Platform (2 min 9 sec). Then send a buck to Bernie Sanders and invite me to speak to your group. Thanks.
The Constitution's Bill of Rights outlaws establishment of religion. And by the way, the 2nd amendment only gives gun rights to 'a well ordered militia', and those rights are to serve in the army (which is the meaning of 'bear arms').
To see some other things we should do, go to YouTube and watch Comedy Party Platform (2 min 9 sec). Then send a buck to Bernie Sanders and invite me to speak to your group. Thanks.
4
So, the accusation is that an individual will go through the ridicule and prejudice that comes with being transgendered--- not to mention the physical danger that could come from an angry restroom user or significant-other-- just in order to use a public women's restroom? Frankly, the only time I would ever subject myself to similar such treatment would be to avoid using a public restroom, not to enter one.
1
This is getting ridiculous. If you have a penis you belong in the men's bathroom. Period.
The lines for the women's bathrooms are long enough already, be thankful not to have to join them.
The lines for the women's bathrooms are long enough already, be thankful not to have to join them.
8
Interactions with transexuals and cross dressers helped me better understand why my hometown, Evanston, Illinois, is such a special place for open-minded people to live.
The former involved a personable and friendly black guy who belonged to my gym. He got to know everyone through typical convivial locker room banter, and one day invited a few of us to his stand-up comedy routine. The routine turned out to be an autobiographical and humorous recollection of his journey from being a black woman in downstate Illinois, to his transition to a man and new life near Chicago.
The latter was a quirky white guy (same gym) with coke bottle glasses who began constantly staring at himself in the mirror, then, over time, gradually shaved off his chest and other body hair. After that he regularly began wearing a modest women's bikini during lap swim.
Through all of this, the fellow men in our locker room--ranging from macho workout types to triathletes to regular joes of different races and nationalities--treated both these guys with the respect you'd give anyone you see everyday. Human beings, who despite their personal quirks, do the things that make them happy and which really don't harm other people.
Even better: We were all naked, and no one's sexuality was ever threatened.
The former involved a personable and friendly black guy who belonged to my gym. He got to know everyone through typical convivial locker room banter, and one day invited a few of us to his stand-up comedy routine. The routine turned out to be an autobiographical and humorous recollection of his journey from being a black woman in downstate Illinois, to his transition to a man and new life near Chicago.
The latter was a quirky white guy (same gym) with coke bottle glasses who began constantly staring at himself in the mirror, then, over time, gradually shaved off his chest and other body hair. After that he regularly began wearing a modest women's bikini during lap swim.
Through all of this, the fellow men in our locker room--ranging from macho workout types to triathletes to regular joes of different races and nationalities--treated both these guys with the respect you'd give anyone you see everyday. Human beings, who despite their personal quirks, do the things that make them happy and which really don't harm other people.
Even better: We were all naked, and no one's sexuality was ever threatened.
7
I did not know that Huckabee had moved his hate bus to Florida. Rubio, ¿Jeb? and Huckabee. I am sad.
1
So a person who looks like a man but identifies herself as a woman can go in both restrooms?
4
"The Fox News contributor and presidential candidate Mike Huckabee, who lives in Florida, not Texas, urged his Facebook followers to protest on the steps of Houston’s City Hall."
Being consistent with that thinking, then why is this article in a NEW YORK paper? The reason is pretty clear- because it is a chance to make religious people look bad.
Funny how the NY Times never has an article describing the charitable work of these religious organizations:
https://philanthropy.com/article/Religious-Americans-Give-More/153973
Being consistent with that thinking, then why is this article in a NEW YORK paper? The reason is pretty clear- because it is a chance to make religious people look bad.
Funny how the NY Times never has an article describing the charitable work of these religious organizations:
https://philanthropy.com/article/Religious-Americans-Give-More/153973
4
Trans gender people have decided that the sex within which they were born does not suit them and they have chosen to look like (some going as far as radical surgery) the other sex, which nature did not bestow upon them. This is their right and should be so (so long as public moneys are not spent to implement their choices). That having been said their rights of self- consideration in no way should encumber my or societies' rights to consider them and treat them as the genetic sex within which they were born.
They made this choice for themselves not for me or society.
They made this choice for themselves not for me or society.
8
Having lived in Europe, for the most part in France, where sometimes there are bathrooms labelled "hommes" et "femmes," but where often unisex bathrooms, it's the latter that seems to me to make sense. Each stall has a door and the door can and is usually locked. Most mature human beings know what the other sex looks like -- i.e., their genitalia -- and it takes a really nasty view of the human race to assume that, we are all sex-crazed and ready to rape at any time. The second matter is that of trans-gendered human beings; does it really matter, just as long as we respect each other's privacy and even in a urinal in a boot camp just do our "business" (bizness, I want to say!). The whole issue is just funny, particularly for Christian fundamentalists who believe God made us all in his image. Ernest Becker was a great psychologist who died of cancer and who described human beings as mortals who .... (excrete). Or, like sex, maybe I should quote the Italian who, when asked by DH Lawrence, if he though Lady Chatterly's Lover was obscene, replied: "Mama Mia, we do it every day." When this interchange ever took place or not, the Italian's reply still makes a lot of sense. In 2015 we don't have better things to worry about, much less make need an ordinance one way or another?
2
And so how does this exactly work - not so much in the bathroom, but in the school gym or health club locker room? If a man proclaims himself a woman, he is entitled to go into the girls' facilities? Does a six year old have this right? (I remember seeing an article on this already.) Or do you have to be an adult? Do you have to actually look like a woman? Or can you simply say you identify as a woman and walk in and make everyone else uncomfortable. Does criteria have to be established. If so, who does so and who evaluates? Is it even really discrimination as long as you get to use one or the other half of pretty much equal facilities? Do the rights of one person to "gender identify" and feeling comfortable outweigh the rights of the many to feel comfortable in such intimate settings? Lot's of questions in my mind. Certainly seems a lot simpler to base things on who has penis who does not.
12
Presumably transwomen don't want to do away with sex-segregated restrooms and dressing rooms; they don't want to encounter men there any more than I believe most women do. And yet that's going to be the result of this.
I have all these people telling me I shouldn't care about using the same facilities as men. If that's the case, then why do transwomen have a problem using the men's room? I don't think they want unisex bathrooms. I think they want to use the ladies' where they feel safer and more comfortable.
So do I. Do I have a vote about this?
I have all these people telling me I shouldn't care about using the same facilities as men. If that's the case, then why do transwomen have a problem using the men's room? I don't think they want unisex bathrooms. I think they want to use the ladies' where they feel safer and more comfortable.
So do I. Do I have a vote about this?
7
Just like a ramp is mandatory in all public places and businesses, why not just have mandatory bathrooms for the transgenders? End of story!
2
My initial reaction was to vote against HERO, mainly because:
(a) equal rights are already the law, so why do we need duplicate laws?
(b) Mayor Parker and her allies should have had the sense to put the issue to the voters in the first place,
But, once I saw these ridiculous bathroom ads, I changed my mind. If that is, seriously, the only argument the anti-HERO campaign has, then it has no argument at all. So, I've voted for the ordinance, and I think the majority of Houstonians will too.
(a) equal rights are already the law, so why do we need duplicate laws?
(b) Mayor Parker and her allies should have had the sense to put the issue to the voters in the first place,
But, once I saw these ridiculous bathroom ads, I changed my mind. If that is, seriously, the only argument the anti-HERO campaign has, then it has no argument at all. So, I've voted for the ordinance, and I think the majority of Houstonians will too.
3
As long as they put the seat down it should be alright.
27
Are you sure? What if they don't lift it to start with?
People from outside of Houston need to consider the following:
The simple fact is that the liberal Mayor & City Council fear democracy. They have fought tooth and nail against a public vote on this matter even taking it to the Texas Supreme Court but why should they be afraid? They were elected and they are openly liberal democrats? Houston elected an openly lesbian mayor twice. If their is nothing sinister or untoward about the ordinance, wouldn't the enlightened populace who twice elected an openly lesbian mayor also vote for the ordinance? What could cause them so much consternation and fear about the democratic process that gave them their jobs if all was well with the law as written? Could it be that this is not so innocent of an ordinance as they propose? Could this be why they fear the people who elected them having a say on it?
Heaven help if one cannot see the truth inherent in their fear...
The simple fact is that the liberal Mayor & City Council fear democracy. They have fought tooth and nail against a public vote on this matter even taking it to the Texas Supreme Court but why should they be afraid? They were elected and they are openly liberal democrats? Houston elected an openly lesbian mayor twice. If their is nothing sinister or untoward about the ordinance, wouldn't the enlightened populace who twice elected an openly lesbian mayor also vote for the ordinance? What could cause them so much consternation and fear about the democratic process that gave them their jobs if all was well with the law as written? Could it be that this is not so innocent of an ordinance as they propose? Could this be why they fear the people who elected them having a say on it?
Heaven help if one cannot see the truth inherent in their fear...
7
It's as plain as the fear of President Obama on a so-called tea partier's face.
Perhaps it's the fear of right wing intolerance.
Or perhaps if we left issues of civil rights to a ballot vote, then your home state would still be ensuring that only people of the right skin color are eligible to enter the voting booth.
Majority rule while preserving minority rights is THE fundamental tension of the democratic system of governance. If you ignore minority rights, then the majority can just vote away the participatory power of the minority, and then what remains can no longer be rightly called democracy. You see sinister conspiracy, I see someone who wasn't paying attention in US History or US Government class.
Majority rule while preserving minority rights is THE fundamental tension of the democratic system of governance. If you ignore minority rights, then the majority can just vote away the participatory power of the minority, and then what remains can no longer be rightly called democracy. You see sinister conspiracy, I see someone who wasn't paying attention in US History or US Government class.
Good grief!
For real?
Just make all the bathrooms co-ed.
If there ever was a common denominator among all humanity...
For real?
Just make all the bathrooms co-ed.
If there ever was a common denominator among all humanity...
17
If the Pulpits were Preaching Politics, then they should necessarily have their tax exempt status revoked. Getting very tired of people thinking they are above the law. Separation of Church and State as written into the Constitution of these United States means Everyone must adhere to this. For far too long, the leash on the Religious Right has been let loose. Time to reel them in and put them in their rightful place. In your homes, in your churches you have every right to preach and believe as you will. But when it comes to following the laws of this country, you WILL obey them.
15
So many organizations abuse tax-exempt ststus that the relevant provision of the IRC should be repealed and everyone cvan pay their own way.
The citizens, most of whom neither belong to nor support all of these churches, phony (scientology) and "legitimate" main line churches, "chairities," "think-tanks," "NGOs" Clinton Foundation,. and on, are tired of paying, through taxes to cover just about any applicant, and can support, by specific directive, whatever it is that each desires to support.
The citizens, most of whom neither belong to nor support all of these churches, phony (scientology) and "legitimate" main line churches, "chairities," "think-tanks," "NGOs" Clinton Foundation,. and on, are tired of paying, through taxes to cover just about any applicant, and can support, by specific directive, whatever it is that each desires to support.
I voted for HERO because I believe in it's principles...I'll just make sure I pee before I leave home.
4
"But no one can say religious conservatives aren’t imaginative troubleshooters".....Mimi has a future in comedy.
10
It's days like this when I truly, with all my heart and soul, lament the untimely deaths of Molly Ivins and Ann Richards!
19
Oh amen. Those ladies would have long since skewered those lacking in common sense.
Years ago I attended a national conference with a preponderance of women attendees (easily 80%) and the hotel rose to the occasion. On most floors over those three days, there was one bathroom per floor for men, and the remaining men's bathrooms were temporarily labelled for the ladies, their urinals filled with bouquets of fresh flowers. Inspired!
Years ago I attended a national conference with a preponderance of women attendees (easily 80%) and the hotel rose to the occasion. On most floors over those three days, there was one bathroom per floor for men, and the remaining men's bathrooms were temporarily labelled for the ladies, their urinals filled with bouquets of fresh flowers. Inspired!
The law of unintended consequences is immutable. Damn the consequences and vote ahead, it's for the children.
3
I'm surprised to see the ordinance reduced to the bathroom argument in the New York Times as well. The ordinance does a lot more than just let women use the women's bathroom (see what I did there?). By all means, support overturning the ordinance and allow (or rather not ban) discrimination against many people, because the prospect that some broad shoulders might find their way into the women's restroom is scary to some.
Sure, if someone is standing up in the stall next to you while she pees, I can see how that would be slightly alarming. However, where is she? She is in the stall next to you, which is not your stall. She will not come out of the stall gallivanting her penis around to all the other women. No, she will come out fully clothed like everyone else does, wash her hands, and adjust her makeup just like anyone else. Plus, I am willing to bet the majority of transgender women sit while they pee anyways.
Sure, if someone is standing up in the stall next to you while she pees, I can see how that would be slightly alarming. However, where is she? She is in the stall next to you, which is not your stall. She will not come out of the stall gallivanting her penis around to all the other women. No, she will come out fully clothed like everyone else does, wash her hands, and adjust her makeup just like anyone else. Plus, I am willing to bet the majority of transgender women sit while they pee anyways.
47
I've always been a woman and I always pee standing up in a public restroom.
1
I do see what you did there. You tried to win an argument by a rhetorical sleight of hand. The definition of "woman" is precisely what's being contested. Transgender women say they are women, so they get to use the women's bathroom. And note that if this were straightforward, if everyone agreed that they are women, then it wouldn't be an issue, because, as you say, women get to use the women's bathroom. But some people disagree about whether transwomen are properly women. So they see the issue as some men wanting to use the woman's bathroom. (And actually I kind of see the point - why isn't prohibiting men from using the women's bathroom just as much sex discrimination as not allowing transgender women to use the women's bathroom?) And this issue (whether transgender people are "really" the sex they claim to be) is one that hasn't yet been resolved in the culture.
(FWIW, I expect most people who are concerned about this issue are more concerned about locker rooms than about public bathrooms.)
(FWIW, I expect most people who are concerned about this issue are more concerned about locker rooms than about public bathrooms.)
2
You have your pronouns confused. "her penis" is by defintion nonsensical.
1
Anyone who advocates for or is in favor of males going into female bathrooms or vice versa is a morally bankrupt pervert. And a pox on American society.
15
Especially since there are no urinals!
4
No, that would make them lawyers.
1
Guess you were never a Dad out and about with a little girl who needed to pee, huh? Or did you take her into the men's room past the guys using the urinals?
My religion calls for human sacrifice.
Somehow I don't think my right to religious freedom is going to trump civil law.
Somehow I don't think my right to religious freedom is going to trump civil law.
11
You'd be eligible for tax exempt status, surely.
Don't forget, Houston was the city that sold stadium naming rights to Enron, one of the most dishonest companies in the country. How is that different from this?
5
Houston doesn't own Minute Maid Park, and naming rights are controlled by the Astros. Thanks for asking.
1
1) Enron was a local company, so the naming rights for a local team wasn't much of a surprise. The rest of the country was doing business with Enron, so I'm not sure what your point is.
2) How is this situation similar to that in ANY way?
2) How is this situation similar to that in ANY way?
1
Just last week or maybe the week before my spouse and I went to a crowded festival in New York. We both needed a rest room and when we located one, the women's door had a line of maybe forty people and the men's none at all.
My first thought is that anyone would be nuts to want to go to the female side on this. My second is that we should just ditch the system and go unisex. And I do remember the southern male bizarre opposition to the equal rights amendment based on shared rest room fears. Time for a reset on the whole thing.
My first thought is that anyone would be nuts to want to go to the female side on this. My second is that we should just ditch the system and go unisex. And I do remember the southern male bizarre opposition to the equal rights amendment based on shared rest room fears. Time for a reset on the whole thing.
15
Forty women in the women's line and none in the men's line. Next time if what you advocate, there will be 20 women in each line, so Nancy, you will still have to wait.
saw a comment that there would still be twenty people. Yes, even in the fifties they let little girls in school where they learned arithmetic.
In answer, yes I can figure that out. And my thoughts are that twenty people are much better than forty. and if men had to share the discomfort, it is pretty likely that there would be more restrooms.
In answer, yes I can figure that out. And my thoughts are that twenty people are much better than forty. and if men had to share the discomfort, it is pretty likely that there would be more restrooms.
This is insanity. I don't identify as transgender but all the bathrooms here in D.C., to my knowledge are officially gender-neutral and there are many single-user lockable bathrooms, where the issue is capacity when there are crowds waiting to use them, not peeping toms. If the transgender part of the ordnance got left out that would be segregationist to me but also a good idea in terms of getting these laws passed in more conservative places. Are people really this terrified to tell other people, in person that they are uncomfortable with someone's bathroom behavior or locker room behavior? Are there national epidemics of be-penises transgender women scaring innocent biological females from our nation's locker rooms and gyms? This seems like scare-mongering to me. If its not one minority being put on a pedestal, it will be another.
15
"Most big American cities already have such laws. They offer protections while saving victims the time and expense of filing federal lawsuits."
What disingenuous reporting. Yes many other cities have an ordinance to protect against discrimination. You know what those ordinances almost all have in common? They specifically preserve the right to exclude from men's or women's restroom facilities members of the opposite sex. Very few ordinances of this sort offer protections so someone claiming to be the opposite gender can go into their non-gender assigned restroom/locker room facility. Thats the rub. That's where all the objections lay. Conservative groups in the city of Houston tried to negotiate with the Mayor to add this provision which is present in nearly all other like ordinances. She flat out refused.
This has nothing to do with equality. This is 100% about Mayor Parker trying to create a liberal legacy for herself to leverage into further election victories. This is politics as usual. The people are not benefiting from this.
What disingenuous reporting. Yes many other cities have an ordinance to protect against discrimination. You know what those ordinances almost all have in common? They specifically preserve the right to exclude from men's or women's restroom facilities members of the opposite sex. Very few ordinances of this sort offer protections so someone claiming to be the opposite gender can go into their non-gender assigned restroom/locker room facility. Thats the rub. That's where all the objections lay. Conservative groups in the city of Houston tried to negotiate with the Mayor to add this provision which is present in nearly all other like ordinances. She flat out refused.
This has nothing to do with equality. This is 100% about Mayor Parker trying to create a liberal legacy for herself to leverage into further election victories. This is politics as usual. The people are not benefiting from this.
16
A transgender woman using a woman's restroom or locker room IS going into her gender-assigned restroom/locker room facility.
Clare- until the plumbing matches the mindset, it's just hearsay whether someone is or is not transgender. That's the issue. Like it or not, people need to use the restroom that is compatible with their anatomy, not their brain.
Sorry, my desire to protect my kids outweighs any of my political or religious views, and if I'm at a park and my 9 year old is in the bathroom and I see some creepy looking dude walk in there, then I have a problem with this. The argument is being made here that there should be no societal taboo about this occurring, and that in fact the concern about the safety of one's child is the taboo because it's transphobic, and that if I were to express concern to an authority figure or business owner about it, I would be painted as the bad guy. Kind of amazing actually. The irony is I would be much more concerned about straight male perverts in a situation like this than I would be about transgendereds. Yes, 99.99% of these occurrences would be harmless, but it would be incredibly naive to think there won't be incidents of assault and harassment of women as a result of these laws, with most of the perpetrators being straight men. Somewhat shocking to me that people seem to be blowing this off as a non-issue.
27
If .01%, that is one in ten thousand occurrences are harmful, and you worry about it.
Crossing a busy street is more dangerous than that.
Were a transgender woman to use a male restroom, her odds of being hurt are far greater than one in ten thousand.
Crossing a busy street is more dangerous than that.
Were a transgender woman to use a male restroom, her odds of being hurt are far greater than one in ten thousand.
So you're suggesting that if transwomen are legally allowed to use women's bathrooms, straight men will increase their assaults and harassments of women? And that this should somehow mean that transwomen SHOULDN'T be allowed to use the women's bathroom? If some straight men don't control their violent misogyny, it seems pretty rich to lay that at the feet of women. Rich, but all too common.
So ignorant. Do you shield your kids from seeing handicapped people too because they are "creepy looking?" Open your mind, your heart, your eyes. There are these kinds of laws already in place in many places in the US already and ZERO incidents of problems. Trans people are obviously highly sensitive - they've lived a life of feeling "out of place/body" - you can rest assured they are going to be quite discreet and not showing off to your sensitive kids - or anyone else for that matter. As far as true sexual perverts - how many of them do you think are going to travel to Houston, put on a dress and harass kids or anyone else. You're more likely to get shot in a movie theater for texting in this country than getting flashed by a man in a dress in a restroom in Houston.
Mr. Paul, no one is "censoring" the pastors' sermons; however, if they are preaching politics, they can pay their taxes just like everyone else. Otherwise, they have the perfect right to say what they want, just don't ask the taxpayers to subsidize their political views. I think a lot of religion simply amounts to a tax dodge anyway. Is this a great country, or what? hahahaha
14
Then how do blatantly political operations like the Clinton Foundation have tax exempt status in order to park Clinton advisors at handsome salaries, awaiting jobs in the HC campaign or in her administration?
The IRC should be amended to revoke all non-profit tax exemption, which has turned into a massiive fraud, dumping the tax shortfall on the 99% who do not support these activities. This goes for every church, chairity, et al. Let those who wish to support one or the other NGO do so with their own now increased funds.
The IRC should be amended to revoke all non-profit tax exemption, which has turned into a massiive fraud, dumping the tax shortfall on the 99% who do not support these activities. This goes for every church, chairity, et al. Let those who wish to support one or the other NGO do so with their own now increased funds.
Morals seem to be a legitimate topic discussed in churches, and Politics and religious issues often intersect. I see how Liberals seem to want to bash clergymen and punish them by threatening to take away their tax exemption (their livelihood) when they oppose LGBT or other Liberal agenda issues that contradict religious morals, but applaud when priests talk up for amnesty for illegal immigrants (well, the Catholic ones at least). Either censor Religious representatives on EVERY political issue, or just hush up altogether; in other words, show some balance and fairness.
Astonishing, the stupidity and arrogance of so-called 'progressives' in this country. Calling a badly flawed rights ordinance "HERO" and trying to force it down the throats of the very people who elected her - Parker must have already decided to retire from politics.
Texans (and Americans) love eccentrics. That love turns to something else when those eccentrics force their values on us.
Texans (and Americans) love eccentrics. That love turns to something else when those eccentrics force their values on us.
12
Christians have been forcing their values on this country since it was founded. There are other beliefs and opinions besides theirs, you know.
19
Wait...we've been told over and over that the Founders weren't Christians. They were Humanists or Deist or something...just not Christian.
Requiring you to recognize the rights of your fellow citizens is not the same as forcing you to share "values" with which you do not approve.
While the greatest mass extinction since the Permian - Triassic Extinction Event (aka "The Great Dying") continues unabated, our overpopulated world warms to a furnace, Greenland's glaciers melt and our politicians borrow and spend us into penury we squabble about picayune restroom nonsense? Unbelievable .... .
11
NO religious point of view takes precedence over any civil law, no way, no how, nowhere. Everybody already hates Texas for so many equality reasons. Looks like Houstonians are not inclined to do anything to help themselves into the mainstream. I guess they think they are too good for the rest of us. And, by the way, those who feel they are entitled to discriminate against any of "God's children" cannot call themselves Christians.
8
What's new about disconnected conservatives feeling that equality laws are somehow created to threaten their way of life? Their arguments are systematically weak and unfounded. Anyone so adamant on cross dressing with the intent to rape can do so with or without this law. No one should validate irrelevant hypotheticals as an argument for or against anything. Moreover, if HERO is the monster these people claim, can they please cite incidences that have occurred as a result? Where are the people getting raped, molested, and another kind of in wrong doing that they've predicted would happen as a result of the law?
10
Nice how Liberals are all about "the Will of the People" until they discover that Will to be opposed to their social experimentation. Then, it becomes a matter of forcing the experiment down the throats of the People through City Council action. Democracy - great for thee but not for me, eh?
7
The majority of Americans are in favor of abortion, better gun laws, the Affordable Care Act, campaign finance reform, renewable energy, and decriminalization of marijuana. Notice how Conservatives are all about "the Will of the People" until they discover that Will to be opposed to their social stagnation. Democracy - great for thee but not for me, eh?
24
Typical Texas politics inspired by the Christian right that forgot the real teachings of Christ, and seems only to understand vengeance and retribution. Of course, the politics of fear is often profitable, and Texas is a state where money is often worshipped, especially by the wealthy pastors of all those megachurches that line the streets of Houston.
10
I would venture that if you placed the Bill of Rights before the public for a vote, and the wording was handled in a way not to immediately remind of their origins in our Constitution, that a majority would oppose those rights. At minimum, vigorous debate would follow. We are generally a tolerant people, until we are asked to be otherwise or until that tolerance becomes a point of controversy. Then, not so much. It is difficult for a lot of people to admit that we don't live in a world where a single sexual, cultural or social identity predominates. These days, they feel like the old, old song: "...now heavens knows, anything goes"
2
You're right, not a single sex dominates. Then again, you're either a male or a female when born. Maybe we can get an amendment to change all that.
I remember when, during the 1970s, we feminists were pushing to get the ERA--Equal Rights Amendment--ratified by enough states to become part of the Constitution. (It never was.) It simply spelled out that women and men must be treated equally in matters of employment, housing, public accommodations etc.--not really a controversial idea today, I would hope.
The main argument against the ERA, especially in southern states, was that men and women would be required to share public restrooms. How ironic that we still haven't progressed as a society since then.
I just don't get it; I didn't then and I don't now.
The main argument against the ERA, especially in southern states, was that men and women would be required to share public restrooms. How ironic that we still haven't progressed as a society since then.
I just don't get it; I didn't then and I don't now.
15
Of course, the existence of separate male and female bathrooms is itself discriminatory. Imagine if any city tried to enshrine racial discrimination by returning to the days (which were still around in my lifetime) of separate black and white bathrooms. Clearly that would violate this ordinance as race based discrimination.
Similarly, having separate male and female bathrooms is gender discrimination. What is more gender discriminatory than forbidding me from entering a room in a business solely because of my gender? That is the very essence of discrimination.
Over fifty years ago the Supreme Court famously stated that "separate but equal is not equal." Clearly, the day when that principle is given full applicability is yet to come, and when it comes to bathrooms, separate but equal is accepted as equal under the law.
Similarly, having separate male and female bathrooms is gender discrimination. What is more gender discriminatory than forbidding me from entering a room in a business solely because of my gender? That is the very essence of discrimination.
Over fifty years ago the Supreme Court famously stated that "separate but equal is not equal." Clearly, the day when that principle is given full applicability is yet to come, and when it comes to bathrooms, separate but equal is accepted as equal under the law.
"Discrimination" can be defined as good, bad or neither.
Can cats discriminate colors?--is neither.
Racism, sexism, ageism--etc.--are defined as bad/irrational--letting irrelevant factors count in decision making or not counting all relevant ones.
Discriminating taste/judgment is defined as good--counting all and only relevant factors, weighing them correctly, impartially, unbiased, unprejudiced etc. for classification, decision and choice. It is wisdom--in the areas/subject matters at issue. It often requires enhanced powers of neutral discrimination--experiencing forests and its trees--with educated eyes, ears, noses, fingers or tongues. Sensory experience is rarely raw--it comes conceptualized--we see, hear, smell, touch and taste--AS this or that.
Can cats discriminate colors?--is neither.
Racism, sexism, ageism--etc.--are defined as bad/irrational--letting irrelevant factors count in decision making or not counting all relevant ones.
Discriminating taste/judgment is defined as good--counting all and only relevant factors, weighing them correctly, impartially, unbiased, unprejudiced etc. for classification, decision and choice. It is wisdom--in the areas/subject matters at issue. It often requires enhanced powers of neutral discrimination--experiencing forests and its trees--with educated eyes, ears, noses, fingers or tongues. Sensory experience is rarely raw--it comes conceptualized--we see, hear, smell, touch and taste--AS this or that.
I'm female and of an age where a bathroom visit might be right-now-right-this-second necessary. I have used men's public restrooms in a pinch. My feeling is that I have an emergency and men can deal with the presence of a woman if it bothers them. But I do use common sense. I am not going to walk into a restroom full of occupied urinals because I know that would embarrass the men using them (however, I did live in communal housing when I was at university, and shared a common bathroom with urinals with the men in the house, and I survived unscathed). I live where there is a large population of transgender people, happily going about their lives unimpeded, so perhaps I am more used to fluid gender lines than some. I would not think twice -- do not think twice -- about a human who is not clearly either make or female using the women's restroom while I am in there. If I see a dad accompanying his young daughter into a women's restroom, I think good for him for taking the route more comfortable for and respectful of his little daughter, rather than only of himself. If I saw a man enter a woman's restroom alone, however, and simply lurk there or act too interested in the actions of the women in the facility, I might question him or alert the cleaning crew or management. Context and behavior are everything in this matter. As for those posting here about "sex crazed" men dressing as women to enter a woman's bathroom, that has nothing to do with equal access. Nothing at all.
48
As I recall, the City Council vote came across as a backdoor attempt to get a gay rights issue passed without having to go to the public, and get it passed by popular vote. As Ms. Swartz rightly notes, Black pastors have been strongly opposed. It's interesting to me that spokesmen for the Black community are often very vocal in their opposition to gay rights advocacies. One would think, as Ms. Swartz, they'd be for all of them. The opposing point is well made here: gay rights - equality arguments - are not the same as racial equality, though they are often confused in the public discussions. We shall see if Houston voters agree with the Black pastors or their Mayor. It seems to me now, a Texan but not a Houston, that the Mayor is afraid she'll lose the public vote, which was the reason for the ordinance being passed through the City Council in the first place.
2
Infringing on the rights of the majority to help a very few individuals doesn't seem quite right.
19
The country was founded on certain principles, including the idea that minorities are entitled to certain fundamental rights. So people in the majority should not argue ably claim that they have the 'right' to deprive others of their rights. Or in other words, what is the positive right here other than denying something to others?
1
We are simply going to have to have a Constitutional Amendment requiring the individual's protection for living his or her religious faith.
As weak as Congressional Republicans are in facing the lockstep Dems, I think a convention will certainly have to be called to roll out amendments, including serious limits on the sordidly mis-used interstate commerce clause.
As weak as Congressional Republicans are in facing the lockstep Dems, I think a convention will certainly have to be called to roll out amendments, including serious limits on the sordidly mis-used interstate commerce clause.
What privileges are you losing? The right to discriminate? When the majority loses it's long proud tradition of stepping on the minority, it isn't losing rights-- it's fixing a broken system. Your privilege is showing!
2
uh, hum. I don't recall ever seeing anything but a stall in a woman's room so I confess to being confused how a young girl would even know that a transgender person with a penis presumably was in the next stall. And in my experience most men stand with their back to the room when using a toilet so even if a girl did get a peek all she would be seeing is the back of a fully clothed person standing at a toilet. Th implication that a transgender person is somehow going to expose themselves in the public area of the woman's room is insulting.
And no matter how enlightened, let's just face the reality that it's much safer for the transgender person in the women's room. I can't even imagine the idea of having to use the men's room for transgender individual. It makes me nervous for them. Mix in a little alcohol and the propensity for carrying weapons and it's enough to make me caution them to stay home rather than urinate in a public restroom.
No, I think Houston got this exactly right.
What is it with church people that they are so afraid of the human body and seem to make everything be about sex? It's creepy.
And no matter how enlightened, let's just face the reality that it's much safer for the transgender person in the women's room. I can't even imagine the idea of having to use the men's room for transgender individual. It makes me nervous for them. Mix in a little alcohol and the propensity for carrying weapons and it's enough to make me caution them to stay home rather than urinate in a public restroom.
No, I think Houston got this exactly right.
What is it with church people that they are so afraid of the human body and seem to make everything be about sex? It's creepy.
24
There is solution, but it would require $ and a lot of renovation - just have several separate stalls with a proper 3-hinged door, and the sink in the common area.
2
No, the solution is for people to choose the bathroom that is consistent with their gender identity/expression, and for people to mind their own business. They need to stop making up alarmist, improbable, unprecedented scenarios that have never materialized.
2
A few years ago I was in the men's bathroom when a woman who was impatient waiting in line for the women's bathroom used the men's bathroom. The men either laughed or ignored the woman.
What do you think would happen if I walked into the women's bathroom? The women would either scream or call the police.
There seems to be a bit of paranoid hypocrisy going on here. We need unisex bathrooms and responsible adult behavior.
What do you think would happen if I walked into the women's bathroom? The women would either scream or call the police.
There seems to be a bit of paranoid hypocrisy going on here. We need unisex bathrooms and responsible adult behavior.
12
You have a point. I can remember when a group of us women "commandeered" a men's room during the intermission of a symphony concert. There was one guy in there and, as usual, the line for the women's room was incredibly long. So when the lone man using the bathroom came out, five or six of us went in. When a few men arrived later, they were quite amused to learn that there were women in "their" bathroom. One even volunteered to "help" us by being the "lookout."
Many of the women in the other line did not seem equally amused. Or perhaps they were simply jealous. Standing around in high heels and Spanx when you really have to pee is enough to make anyone unpleasant.
Many of the women in the other line did not seem equally amused. Or perhaps they were simply jealous. Standing around in high heels and Spanx when you really have to pee is enough to make anyone unpleasant.
2
"…responsible adult behavior…"
Refusing to allow transgenders in a women's bathroom IS "responsible adult behavior."
1
I'm old enough to remember that bathroom hysteria was deployed against the Equal Rights Amendment, if anyone cares to recall that this country never managed to pass an amendment to the Constitution affirming that women had equal rights with men. The text of that amendment read as follows:
Section 1. Equality of rights under the law shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex.
Section 2. The Congress shall have the power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.
Section 3. This amendment shall take effect two years after the date of ratification.
Yup, that's all it said. But somehow it meant that all bathrooms would have to be co-ed. I hope I live long enough to see a country in which identity based on sex and/or gender stops sending uptight doth-protest-too-much individuals into a tizzy, or they become a tiny and absurdly entertaining minority.
Section 1. Equality of rights under the law shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex.
Section 2. The Congress shall have the power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.
Section 3. This amendment shall take effect two years after the date of ratification.
Yup, that's all it said. But somehow it meant that all bathrooms would have to be co-ed. I hope I live long enough to see a country in which identity based on sex and/or gender stops sending uptight doth-protest-too-much individuals into a tizzy, or they become a tiny and absurdly entertaining minority.
10
Re-read "The Rise and Fall of The Roman Empire."
Where do we think we are heading morally?
The entire concept of gendered bathrooms is bizarre, arbitrary, and pointless anyway.
7
Excuse me?! I do not want a man in my bathroom. This is beyond the pale. Is there no sense left in the world?
1
Imagine a person from the next century coming back in time and seeing our bathroom arrangements. "You have segregated bathrooms? How is that different from segregated buses? Why do you create this space (the men's bathroom) that women are not allowed access to? Why go to all this trouble to define 'man' and 'woman' and 'transgender'. What a strange arrangement. I remember reading about it my history books. In my century we have unisex bathroom stalls."
5
It is long overdue for churches to be called out on their hate speech... so much for following the teaching of Jesus.
24
Maintaining the morality of the Bible is not "hate speech."
Transgenders were never condoned by any statement in any Bible.
No less mixed bathrooms!
Not really sure how any legislation is going to keep 'someone' from dressing up as a woman and going into the Ladies Room. Can't imagine they're going to expose their 'privates' and ask permission.
and BTW, how many of these imaginary transgressions have occurred? We can interpret from a Mark Twain line (attributed):
"I've known many troubles in my time. Fortunately most of them never happened." Sam Clemens was good.
and BTW, how many of these imaginary transgressions have occurred? We can interpret from a Mark Twain line (attributed):
"I've known many troubles in my time. Fortunately most of them never happened." Sam Clemens was good.
19
"The senior pastor of the Grace Community Church declared that his congregation “should not be forced to normalize lifestyle choices that God says ‘no’ to."
God made us in his image. Apparently though, the devil made this guy. What a disgrace he is that he even wants others to listen to his junk.
God made us in his image. Apparently though, the devil made this guy. What a disgrace he is that he even wants others to listen to his junk.
13
I can definitely see why a woman would be creeped (not afraid of being raped but being very uncomfortable) out to share a bathroom or locker room with someone who is biologically a male. I am not sure why the transgendered persons "right" to use a bathroom or locker that is not consistent with their biology should trump the right of the individual to use a same sex bathroom or locker room.
40
@nyalman1 in complete agreement with you, while I am for equal rights to gays/lesbians/trans etc why should their rights supersede all others? Build separate bathrooms if need be.
12
This is what conservatives, religious and political, do: pit minority groups one against the other, use unfounded scare tactics, and, when all else fails, get personal...
12
Since the minority groups own 90% or so of the news media reporters and higher-ups, however, it wprks out about even. The most ignored minority these days would be the conservatives wanting a smaller, more efficient government.
Even Boehner and McConnell are disgusted with them.
Even Boehner and McConnell are disgusted with them.
2
Rand Paul, quoted in this article, sounds like a genuine Crazy to me.
6
“No minister, anywhere, should ever have to submit a sermon to a government censor,...”
How about to a fact-checker?
How about to a fact-checker?
18
I find it laughable that the NYT is so concerned about this. Why not push for this in NYC and see how far it goes. Lets force everyone to use same sex bathrooms in Gotham. If it is good enough for Houston, it is good enough for NY.
7
Too late! We already have that law.
1
Your comment isn't relevant. In NYC, is already illegal to discriminate in public accommodations based on gender identity, sexual orientation, etc. http://www.nyc.gov/html/cchr/html/coverage/public-accommodations.shtml
And the author is from Texas Monthly.
And the author is from Texas Monthly.
You're absolutely right, Bill, that NYC should have a law like HERO, and in fact, it does-- the New York City Human Rights Law (http://www.nyc.gov/html/cchr/downloads/pdf/human-rights/nyc-human-rights... goes farther than the HERO ordinance proposed in Texas. Incidentally, there has never been a reported "bathroom" incident since the NYC HRC was enacted in 1991.
2
I'm a firm believer in separate but equal when it comes to restrooms. If a transgender is still packing equipment, HE belongs in the men's room and vice verse for the SHE.
34
The ladies' room does not bother me. It's all stalls in there and there's nothing to see. The men's room? That's their problem not mine.
What I'm worried about is the gym locker room. I belong to a big gym with a big open locker room. I'm as much in favor of equal rights as anyone else, but I really do NOT want to see a penis on anyone in there. I don't care how the person got in there, thinking he/she is a woman, or just some guy who got past the receptionist. If I see that I'm quitting.
What I'm worried about is the gym locker room. I belong to a big gym with a big open locker room. I'm as much in favor of equal rights as anyone else, but I really do NOT want to see a penis on anyone in there. I don't care how the person got in there, thinking he/she is a woman, or just some guy who got past the receptionist. If I see that I'm quitting.
150
If it's Planet Fitness, you won't even need to quit- they'll terminate your membership for your "insensitivity".
8
Quick! You poor thing! Let me get some smelling salts before the gentle lady faints.
19
If you see that, fire "the receptionist".
3
The language of the ordinance, as written, says that discrimination in housing, employment, and "public accommodations" against "persons" is prohibited. It says that in several sections.
In the second paragraph, it states, that Houston "seeks to provide an atmosphere free from discrimination based on..." and a long exhaustive list follows. That sound "aspirational" and it is not used to define "person".
The ordinance does not specifically define "person", and It says nothing about Transgenders, sexual reassignment, or bathrooms.
It says "persons", and in the United States we have a tradition of "person" which is pretty essential to citizenship. Granted that has been violated and fought over for decades, even though the Declaration of Independence says, "all men are created equal".
Maybe Houston could just adopt the standard "European bathroom" set up which is: common sink areas and individual private stalls. The social fabric of Europe has not be shredded, and 740 million Europeans manage to go to the bathroom without any group's panties getting in a bunch, without of course them putting them on wrong in the morning.
In the second paragraph, it states, that Houston "seeks to provide an atmosphere free from discrimination based on..." and a long exhaustive list follows. That sound "aspirational" and it is not used to define "person".
The ordinance does not specifically define "person", and It says nothing about Transgenders, sexual reassignment, or bathrooms.
It says "persons", and in the United States we have a tradition of "person" which is pretty essential to citizenship. Granted that has been violated and fought over for decades, even though the Declaration of Independence says, "all men are created equal".
Maybe Houston could just adopt the standard "European bathroom" set up which is: common sink areas and individual private stalls. The social fabric of Europe has not be shredded, and 740 million Europeans manage to go to the bathroom without any group's panties getting in a bunch, without of course them putting them on wrong in the morning.
18
That's why Europe is in the mixed up state it is in !
I want to say something about men in women's locker rooms and bathrooms. Women do not feel safe when there is a man in those places, or when we are followed into those places by a man. I know what everyone is saying -- BUT THEY'RE WOMEN BECAUSE THEY'RE TRANS. Okay, fine. But who is going to verify that men going in these places are trans? What prevents the run-of-the-mill perv from going in? And, really, are you going to insist that such pervs don't exist?!
42
And yet the bulk of sexual assault is committed by someone the victim knows...
2
I would say that the transgendered woman using the woman's lockerroom feel even less safe due to the harsh judgment of people like you. It's hard enough living your truth on a day to day basis without having to be harassed with such ignorant tripe.
1
Years ago I discovered, In France, a system that makes the whole problem go away. If you had a penis, and needed to pee, you were sent to a facility with urinals. All others were sent to a facility with private stalls with floor to celiing doors. I do not recall that men and women objected to standing next to each other when they were washing their hands.
12
It is interesting that opposition to the equality measure is strongest in the religious community, where lessons are learned by looking backwards into old books, and the progressive cause is championed by business, whose existence is rooted in the need to have better employees and customers than the next shop in line.
6
I guess greed can be good after all
It is time for the Unisex bathroom. You share your home bathroom with family members regardless of sex, why not in public? Treat the world as one big family. Hopefully people will be on their best behavior in front of people of different sex and the public bathrooms will a lot cleaner.
13
Because people are not on their best behavior with different sexes they are not related to, as every woman knows.
34
Please cite one instance, anywhere in the world, where a woman was sexually assaulted in a public mixed gender bathroom.
2
Why are things different in public with strangers than they are in our own homes with our families? Do you really need to ask that?
2
less religious activism, more common sense and empathy.
22
While I support HERO, Ms. Parker sounds a bit unhinged, incapable of a dispassionate evaluation of the situation, and likely guilty of using civic resources for a vendetta. She should step down...she is not helping.
20
Her political opposition is accusing her of being "against God" and she is not permitted to defend herself against such childish and hateful defamation?
10
You support HERO, but think Mayor Parker should resign? What a supercilious crock, on both counts.
3
As a Houstonian, I'd like to know where all those public restrooms are hidden. There's never one around when needed.
231
Didn't you know that apparently we Americans are not mature enough to be able to handle public bathrooms. I know foreign tourists are always shocked that there are no public bathrooms in our major cities….NYC, LA etc…..just try to find a bathroom. Thankfully Macys has bathrooms.
How about signs that say people with penises use this bathroom and people with vaginas use this bathroom?
Or is it now politically correct to allow each of us to decide what gender we are on any given day of the week, depending on our 'feelings' and which gender will give us the most privilege?
Or is it now politically correct to allow each of us to decide what gender we are on any given day of the week, depending on our 'feelings' and which gender will give us the most privilege?
76
I'm guessing Governor Huckabee would object to the descriptive wording you suggest.
I like it. Besides which, the symbol on the door will be more accurate for the woman who dresses exclusively in slacks - and the occasional Braveheart in his kilt.
1
But the activists will tell you that neither a penis nor a vagina defines a male, female, or some other gender or identification. Since we've now said how you feel or express yourself is sufficient and must be honored, your suggestion can't work.
2
All the talk about access to public bathroom facilities, which are not directly mentioned in the ordinance, and use of which are hardly central to the daily experience of most Americans, probably reveals more about the opponents of the ordinance than it does about the real issues at stake. Also, the mayor's alleged tactics, while hardly unimportant, should not divert attention from the importance of protecting equal rights.
As a Methodist, I cannot claim to be surprised at the attitude of many of the religious leaders in Houston. But this latest example of the stubborn refusal of so many Christians to heed the central message of their religion, a failure unfortunately exhibited throughout American history, still causes deep disappointment. The core belief of Christianity is God's love for all people, a love not conditioned on ethnic or cultural factors. The tiresome claim that sexual or cultural practices which harm no one nevertheless count as sins in God's sight implicitly contradicts this doctrine and tends to locate Christians among the last opponents of human equality. Like the Bourbons, we apparently never forget and never learn.
As a Methodist, I cannot claim to be surprised at the attitude of many of the religious leaders in Houston. But this latest example of the stubborn refusal of so many Christians to heed the central message of their religion, a failure unfortunately exhibited throughout American history, still causes deep disappointment. The core belief of Christianity is God's love for all people, a love not conditioned on ethnic or cultural factors. The tiresome claim that sexual or cultural practices which harm no one nevertheless count as sins in God's sight implicitly contradicts this doctrine and tends to locate Christians among the last opponents of human equality. Like the Bourbons, we apparently never forget and never learn.
117
To be Christ-like where to love each other unconditionally stands at odds with those who merely call themselves Christians. We all struggle with this unspoken commandment; love thy brother[unconditionally]. To do this would radically transform our society.
Mr. Lee,
I admired your piece. Although not a believer, I am a product of cultural inheritance and the Bible is first and foremost in that inheritance. If, indeed, "man" was created in the image and likeness of God, then it follows that God, too, is LGBT; for which, read "human". Thank you.
I admired your piece. Although not a believer, I am a product of cultural inheritance and the Bible is first and foremost in that inheritance. If, indeed, "man" was created in the image and likeness of God, then it follows that God, too, is LGBT; for which, read "human". Thank you.
You must be living in another world...using the bathroom doesn't happen daily?
I fail to see any reason why the pro-HERO forces were so opposed to letting the people of Houston decide. It is their city, is it not?
Let both sides air their positions, logical or emotional, and let the voters decide.(or are the liberals in Houston afraid of democracy?).
Let both sides air their positions, logical or emotional, and let the voters decide.(or are the liberals in Houston afraid of democracy?).
36
Anti-discrimination laws exist to protect minorities against the tyranny of the majority.
11
Democracy isn't the point; equal protection IS. If the good people of Houston had been allowed to vote on segregation in the 1960's, what do you suppose the outcome of that would have been?
I don't even know why these local ordinances are necessary - perhaps because folks have to be constantly reminded that the country belongs to everyone, not just those who fall within the local majority's definition of "normal".
I don't even know why these local ordinances are necessary - perhaps because folks have to be constantly reminded that the country belongs to everyone, not just those who fall within the local majority's definition of "normal".
2
Rights should never be subject to votes, period.
3
So what stops a rapist male criminal from dressing up like a woman and visiting Houston's bathrooms now? The lack of an anti-discrimination ordinance? Please, give me a break.
93
Hello? The difference is that women now have no grounds to get men thrown out of the women's washroom. They have to accept any male in a dress who wants to share their space. Any old creepy man can put on a dress and waltz in there if he feels like perving on women.
This is outrageous. Males cannot transform into women. They remain males even when they're wearing a dress and high heels. And males do not belong in women's bathrooms and change rooms. Period.
This is outrageous. Males cannot transform into women. They remain males even when they're wearing a dress and high heels. And males do not belong in women's bathrooms and change rooms. Period.
10
As a woman, you really can't understand why other women do not want to share a bathroom with a man who declares himself a woman?
41
I am a woman. When I go into a public bathroom I simply go to the bathroom, wash my hands, and leave. I don't daydream, wonder, or even care to know any details about the genitals of the person who uses the stall next to me- nor do I care who they might be attracted to.
38
Exactly Chris - if only the men who identify as women could be as broad-minded as you and just use the public Men's' rooms without concern for the genitals of those next to them..
10
Honey, I'm a woman. And I live in Houston. I have a friend in LA who started life as a guy and is now a gal, and I promise, having gone into a restroom with her when we've visited LA, that yes, I really can't understand why other women do not want to share a bathroom with a man who declares himself as a woman. And who are you, as a woman, going into a bathroom and scrutinizing the other women there? Like, are you really taking a poll? "Oooh... that might be a man who identifies as a woman. Scary!!" Depending on the trans man, how would you even know? And why on earth would you care? This ordinance isn't about bathrooms. It's about equality.
118
The real question is why we equate going to the bathroom with sex/sexuality?
15
"We" don't. But the loudest conservatives on the Internet reduce everything to toilet terms.
15
It would seem to me that the transgendered individuals are the ones doing that.
10
Clearly you've never seen the movie "Porky's"
1
It is not a "right" for a man to be legally and socially regarded as a woman based on his own self-declaration that he is one.
66
It is a person's right to keep your nose out of their business- and their pants. The point of this is to live and let live, to treat people equally. It is the Huckabees of this world who are making it into something totally different.
17
But here is the thing, they are now demanding that I recognize their definition of male and female as the correct one. That is not the same as keeping my nose out of their business. That is something entirely different.
Having shared a co-ed bathroom in college, I am not happy about doing it with all and sundry. Men don't know how to behave. They just don't. And it was deeply uncomfortable. I would certainly advance a push for more family bathrooms in large public areas since father's with small daughter's are rarely comfortable taking them into the men's room.
I am also curious as to why the sensibilities of the trans community, who is less than .o3% of the population or fewer than redheads should drive how we dispose of public bathrooms but not the sensibilities of the deeply, conservatively religious with whom there are very strict gender divisions? I am no more the latter than the former but it seems to me that in dismissing their sensibilities and definitions you are not living and let living but privileging one definition over another.
Having shared a co-ed bathroom in college, I am not happy about doing it with all and sundry. Men don't know how to behave. They just don't. And it was deeply uncomfortable. I would certainly advance a push for more family bathrooms in large public areas since father's with small daughter's are rarely comfortable taking them into the men's room.
I am also curious as to why the sensibilities of the trans community, who is less than .o3% of the population or fewer than redheads should drive how we dispose of public bathrooms but not the sensibilities of the deeply, conservatively religious with whom there are very strict gender divisions? I am no more the latter than the former but it seems to me that in dismissing their sensibilities and definitions you are not living and let living but privileging one definition over another.
88
On the one hand you're saying that there are so few transgender people that their existence need not be accounted for, but then on the other hand you're saying that accounting for their existence would cause the sky to collapse.
40
This issue is not as simple as it may seem for business owners trying to do the right thing. Here is the way Equality Maryland discusses the standard, which echoes the advice given by the Maryland Office of the Attorney General Civil Rights DIvision:
Does this law mean that all public facilities will have to be open to anyone – regardless of gender or gender expression?
No. The public accommodations provisions in the Fairness For All Marylanders Act do not apply to “all public facilities”—they only apply to “places of public accommodation” which are narrowly defined as hotels, restaurants, entertainment and recreation establishments such as movie theaters and sports arenas, and retail stores.
What the law requires is that a place of public accommodation may not discriminate on the basis of gender identity—which is a person’s innate, sincerely-held internal sense of self as male or female. Under the legislation, a person’s gender identity is whatever that deeply and innately identifies as their gender even if it is other than their gender assigned at birth.
The issue is one of difficulty for health clubs and other businesses which have open locker rooms. They try to accomodate all members but if there is no ability to retrofit locker facilities for use by TG persons, then the Attorney General has instructed facilities to have folding partition walls and instructing the TG person to use them.
Does this law mean that all public facilities will have to be open to anyone – regardless of gender or gender expression?
No. The public accommodations provisions in the Fairness For All Marylanders Act do not apply to “all public facilities”—they only apply to “places of public accommodation” which are narrowly defined as hotels, restaurants, entertainment and recreation establishments such as movie theaters and sports arenas, and retail stores.
What the law requires is that a place of public accommodation may not discriminate on the basis of gender identity—which is a person’s innate, sincerely-held internal sense of self as male or female. Under the legislation, a person’s gender identity is whatever that deeply and innately identifies as their gender even if it is other than their gender assigned at birth.
The issue is one of difficulty for health clubs and other businesses which have open locker rooms. They try to accomodate all members but if there is no ability to retrofit locker facilities for use by TG persons, then the Attorney General has instructed facilities to have folding partition walls and instructing the TG person to use them.
7
How precisely is anyone to determine another person's "sincerely-held internal sense of self as male or female"? Certainly not by asking directly lest one be immediately accused of hate, insensitivity, rudeness, judgement, patriarchy, or whatever - perilous waters. Note also that there are some activists who don't even accept the "male or female" choice as societal impositions not applicable to them. This is a morass that is often times falsely created and will be a legal nightmare for many years to come.
15
Define 'sincerely-held internal sense of self as male or female'.
Can that change day to day?
Can the person decide that today it would be helpful to be seen as male, but tomorrow it would be better to be considered female?
Why not, as long as their belief is 'sincerely-held'?
Can that change day to day?
Can the person decide that today it would be helpful to be seen as male, but tomorrow it would be better to be considered female?
Why not, as long as their belief is 'sincerely-held'?
11
This particular issue, while an immediate concern for the gender different community, are really just first world problems. In many countries around the world, the private bathroom consists of a small room with a hole in the floor for relieving oneself. In our more comfortable society, people spend time fighting for the right to use the gender bathroom of their choice. Women everywhere have complained for ages at public events while standing in long lines, that whoever designed public restrooms must be men since everyone knows that women need to go more often as well as take longer to complete the task. Now, liberals want to encourage transgenders to fight for their right to the use of the "ladies" room. I'm sure many parents are worried as public restroom activity is a place where they have to show inordinate amounts of supervision to prevent a crime from taking place. When I lived in San Francisco, I had many gay friends although accidentally stumbled across gay male sex orgies that happened in public parks, bath houses & restrooms. I'm not accusing all transgender individuals of having lax moral codes or obsessed with sexuality, although all it takes is for one sex crime to happen by either a straight male sex offender or transgender in a public restroom & the entire community will be outraged. Why not solve the problem by insisting that Houston develop a gender neutral alternative like the family restrooms in department stores where mothers change diapers?
10
"Why not solve the problem by insisting that Houston develop a gender neutral alternative"
An alternative to the women's bathroom has been offered to activist transgender "women" in other places - and they have been insulted by it. They have rejected it with cries of bigotry.
Because you see, thse guys don't merely want to relieve themselves. That is not the agenda. If they just wanted to relieve themselves they could use the men's room. Or the handicapped bathroom, or another neutral space offered to them.
These guys claim to be worried about male violence in the men's room, Well Hello??? Just exactly why do these guys think women don't want random males entitled to use women's public bathrooms? It is not safe!
"We just need to pee" - that's a laugh. What these transgenderist males really want is get full social acknowledgement as women. Giving them a gender neutral bathroom doesn't accomplish that. They want unfettered access to all women's spaces even the most intimate ones like change rooms and bathrooms.
What genuine women need for their comfort and safety doesn't matter to these entitled male transgenderists. All that matters is that society bow down to their delusion of being women exactly like genuine female women. Grotesque.
An alternative to the women's bathroom has been offered to activist transgender "women" in other places - and they have been insulted by it. They have rejected it with cries of bigotry.
Because you see, thse guys don't merely want to relieve themselves. That is not the agenda. If they just wanted to relieve themselves they could use the men's room. Or the handicapped bathroom, or another neutral space offered to them.
These guys claim to be worried about male violence in the men's room, Well Hello??? Just exactly why do these guys think women don't want random males entitled to use women's public bathrooms? It is not safe!
"We just need to pee" - that's a laugh. What these transgenderist males really want is get full social acknowledgement as women. Giving them a gender neutral bathroom doesn't accomplish that. They want unfettered access to all women's spaces even the most intimate ones like change rooms and bathrooms.
What genuine women need for their comfort and safety doesn't matter to these entitled male transgenderists. All that matters is that society bow down to their delusion of being women exactly like genuine female women. Grotesque.
5
Public facilities should have separate toilet enclosures with floor to ceiling walls and real doors. They should be unisex and accessed from an open space with a communal area with sinks for washing hands. This would be safer for everyone.
21
I am not going to be alone with a man in a public bathroom. There have already been cases of women being assaulted in public bathroom in NYC, even without this concept.
If this is the case, there had better be an able-bodied attendant.
If this is the case, there had better be an able-bodied attendant.
11
"Safer for everyone?"
The idea that letting men have free unfettered access to women's public bathrooms would be "safer" is utterly out of touch with the reality of women's lives.
Why do males like Martin keep expressing their opinion on what women need for their safety in public bathrooms? What would you know about it, Martin?
The idea that letting men have free unfettered access to women's public bathrooms would be "safer" is utterly out of touch with the reality of women's lives.
Why do males like Martin keep expressing their opinion on what women need for their safety in public bathrooms? What would you know about it, Martin?
3
Gee, I must have committed a crime in Houston this year! Attending theatre, at the break between acts, I went out to use the facilities. There were about 20 women waiting in line, but no one at the men's and no man was anywhere in sight. Another woman standing behind me and I went to the men's while the line for the women's toilet kept getting longer.
14
I do that all the time. What's the big deal?
8
The religious community of Houston seems to be infatuated with homosexuals and bathrooms. Trying to keep the community safe from all of the dangerous homosexuals and trans people must be a daunting task for any clergyman and congregation especially in the face of real issues like murder, assault, narcotics and gun violence (just to name a few) that is happening everyday on the streets of Houston. Making mountains out of mole hills is a ploy on both a local and national scale to divert small minded people away from the issues that really do affect them.
49
Anti Christian bigoted liberals with no morals and no decency seem to be obsessed with having hate and bigotry towards the only folks left in this country who know what morals and decency are - the Christian Church.
1
How is this possibly an issue? Every woman has been faced with long lines at the women's room and no lines at the mens. So one watches the door as the other does what needs doing. I had no idea it was illegal. Are washroom attendants supposed to genital check? I know silly politics as I live in Louisiana but Texas wins the prize!
30
There were locally famous instances of women, facing absurdly long lines at crowded ball games at the Astrodome, using the stalls in the men's restrooms while the men used the urinals. No one got molested. No one howled about destruction of Christian morals. Most people, even in Texas, will act decently, if they haven't been rabble-roused and fear-mongered into doing the opposite.
13
Happens all the time during intermissions here at the opera, symphony, plays, concerts plus as Franko said " . . .. women, facing absurdly long lines at crowded ball games at the Astrodome, using the stalls in the men's restrooms while the men used the urinals." That's why stalls have doors, locks. The "stalls" do not care who they serve!
3
Lucky you! There have been millions of rapes, assaults, and murders of women of every age, even infants. Many women would not risk it, why should they. Would you rouninely or even once send a 6 year-old girl alone into men's bathrooms? An elderly woman who may need assistance? Would you yourself walk into a bathoom full of men who are anonymous to you and and feel at ease pulling down your underwear in a variety of public places at random?
5
Love the tax exemption proposal! This needs to be done across the country. Of course Rand Paul is an idiot mislabeling the approach as "government censor". If a cleric wishes to enter the political arena and abandon their religious tax free status that's cool, just as long as we don't subsidize their religious beliefs with our tax dollars!
69
Here's my summary of what is wrong with HERO:
1) The secretive way Mayor Parker attempted to have this law passed with no prior input from any conservative Houstonians, and with no advance public knowledge; 2) Out-of-towners wrote the ordinance; 3) Similar ordinances elsewhere have been used AGAINST GAY BARS" WHY? Because; 4) HERO test for discrimination is any act that the employee or customer sees as "demonstration of preference or antipathy". Can that vague test be any more subject to abuse? 5) Applies to businesses as tiny as 15 employees, where one single unfair claim can sink the business, taking all 15 jobs with it; 6) Changes definition of "public accommodations" to mean just about anything; 7) There have been disturbances as a result of this kind of ordinance when an opposite sex person claiming to be trans (apparently pre-op) entered a shower facility. In short, posing as an "Equal Rights" ordinance (sounds great, doesn't it?) it is actually a heavy-handed effort at transforming all private businesses, including gay businesses (it exempts government) into adopting the values of the hard left - but most people don't know this because they have not read the ordinance.
1) The secretive way Mayor Parker attempted to have this law passed with no prior input from any conservative Houstonians, and with no advance public knowledge; 2) Out-of-towners wrote the ordinance; 3) Similar ordinances elsewhere have been used AGAINST GAY BARS" WHY? Because; 4) HERO test for discrimination is any act that the employee or customer sees as "demonstration of preference or antipathy". Can that vague test be any more subject to abuse? 5) Applies to businesses as tiny as 15 employees, where one single unfair claim can sink the business, taking all 15 jobs with it; 6) Changes definition of "public accommodations" to mean just about anything; 7) There have been disturbances as a result of this kind of ordinance when an opposite sex person claiming to be trans (apparently pre-op) entered a shower facility. In short, posing as an "Equal Rights" ordinance (sounds great, doesn't it?) it is actually a heavy-handed effort at transforming all private businesses, including gay businesses (it exempts government) into adopting the values of the hard left - but most people don't know this because they have not read the ordinance.
19
Where I have problems with efforts of this type is the idea of some on the left that sexual identity/gender are "fluid concepts" not biological ones, hence we get definitions written into ordinances or policies with language such as, "...an individual’s innate identification, appearance, expression or behavior as either male or female...". Thus, given that fluidity, merely deciding from one day to the next based on looks, dress, "expression" (whatever that really means from a legal standpoint - a very broad idea) is theoretically possible. Scoff if you will, but we are also told, harshly often, that you dare not question in any way such outward appearances, demeanors, etc. and must in every way accommodate them, even though a reasonable person may not know what it is another's mind.
The same goes for the silly trend on campuses for "what's your pronoun" nonsense, where in addition to the foregoing, now it is expected, nay demanded, that we use either poor English, such as plural for singular ("they" instead of "he/she") or the inclusion of made up terms like "xvyr" for the apparently passe "your".
Yes, society should make REASONABLE accommodations for people especially when the issue is one that is truly innate, such as race, actual physical/biological sexual nature, etc., but we simply cannot go on with legal diktat for things that are so fungible as appearance and expression or pronoun of the day. It's chaotic and absurd.
The same goes for the silly trend on campuses for "what's your pronoun" nonsense, where in addition to the foregoing, now it is expected, nay demanded, that we use either poor English, such as plural for singular ("they" instead of "he/she") or the inclusion of made up terms like "xvyr" for the apparently passe "your".
Yes, society should make REASONABLE accommodations for people especially when the issue is one that is truly innate, such as race, actual physical/biological sexual nature, etc., but we simply cannot go on with legal diktat for things that are so fungible as appearance and expression or pronoun of the day. It's chaotic and absurd.
67
You bring up a good point. What do we do with those who identify as "gender-fluid" and neither male or female. Allow them in either bathroom or neither bathroom? After all, if you aren't "this" and aren't "that" then why are you in "my" bathroom?
1
I agree. That is why there should be no recognition of religion because it is definitely NOT innate.
Regarding race - how many races are there? If you cannot figure that out, you cannot give "innate" racial labels to anyone.
Regarding race - how many races are there? If you cannot figure that out, you cannot give "innate" racial labels to anyone.
do you know one symptom of "privilege"? it's when you say that an issue that doesn't affect you is silly.
Unisex bathrooms! Come one come all!
17
What a sad reflection on much of our society--particularly the politicians and the priests, who seem to always be behind the times. Seemingly this HERO law will be passed next week and we won't have to hear anything more about this but it's frightening that bigoted religious institutions and politicians see fit to try and trump the equal rights of others for their own gain.
12
What is wrong with the people who fear a pervert invading a ladies' restroom? I've been in a lot of "ladies' rooms" in my long life. Guess what? With very few exceptions they had stalls with doors...peeping toms would be very disappointed. And, really, what's to "peep" at? Yuk! And the Christian preachers who insist on getting into every political fight should stay home and attend to church business!
53
I do not want to be followed into a ladies room by a man. If that happened where I work I would absolutely turn around and leave. Too scary here.
4
Really? Ask Larry "Wide Stance" Craig whether there is anything to peep at in a public bathroom. In fact, ask him why he did so repeatedly in an airport bathroom.
3
I am truly confused...'the burly, bearded transgender male cowboy who posted a sad selfie of himself trapped in a ladies’ restroom.'
Does this person want to be in the ladies' restroom of the guys' restroom?
Does this person want to be in the ladies' restroom of the guys' restroom?
5
Wants to be in the mens. But wasn't born male. Therefore must use the womens. I think.
7
In the guy's restroom is where belongs and wants to be. He was born female but changed his gender very convincingly.
3
No, he wants to be in the guys' restroom. He took the picture to illustrate how wrong it would be not to permit him to use the facility of his chosen gender, rather than the gender he was born.
3
Can't we just agree that for bathroom purposes, if you have a penis: use the men's room; I you have a vagina: use the women's room. Meanwhile, who has ever heard of a rapist dressing up as a woman so he can go into the women's bathroom? I haven't. A rapist who is hiding in the bathroom with the intent of attacking you hasn't gone to all that trouble. And a cross-dresser is not the same thing as a transgender person.
This is all about defeating equal rights laws.
This is all about defeating equal rights laws.
125
It's not so simple as that though. Should pre-op male-to-female trans folks still be required to use the men's room, even if they identify as female? What about female-to-male?
1
There have been plenty of stories about men dressed as women doing terrible things in women's toilets and locker rooms. And so far (and I've been paying attention to this issue for at least a decade), I've not seen any explanation of what differentiates a 'crossdresser' from a 'transgender,' aside from the feeling a man claims to have in his head.
5
A penis is not what determines a person's gender. There are many transgender women that are simply stunning... and stealth. No one knows what is between their legs (and it is no one’s business.) If these beautiful, simply beautiful, women used the men's room because that were they law, it would they that were in danger. There are transgender women killed every year over this issue. Killed. What really upsets people is when an ugly transgender person uses the women's restroom. A person who does fit the stereotype so many have of what a woman should look like. The pretty transgender women (usually younger and early to transition) are allowed to go about their day unmolested (as long as they use women’s restrooms.)
Make no mistake it is the older, less attractive, transgender women that are often molested in our society. These older, more stereo-typically masculine looking, women are not doing the molesting.
Change, no matter how important it is that it be done, no matter how fair or correct it is, is difficult. I understand the reaction to a naked body, or a masculine looking women, is an emotional one. It is sad, but one cannot argue with emotion. Just know that there are many things that determine gender and a penis, or large nose, or broad shoulders are no more important than a flat chest or pretty face. Many people attach emotion to the penis as a symbol. However, that is a social construct.
Make no mistake it is the older, less attractive, transgender women that are often molested in our society. These older, more stereo-typically masculine looking, women are not doing the molesting.
Change, no matter how important it is that it be done, no matter how fair or correct it is, is difficult. I understand the reaction to a naked body, or a masculine looking women, is an emotional one. It is sad, but one cannot argue with emotion. Just know that there are many things that determine gender and a penis, or large nose, or broad shoulders are no more important than a flat chest or pretty face. Many people attach emotion to the penis as a symbol. However, that is a social construct.
I don't know if they exist in the US, but in France I've been more than once in nice restrooms with a central space where the sinks are, and two doors -one marked for men and one for women (obviously no urinals). Generally I've encountered this layout at restaurants without much space in the back. Perhaps the reason why this never seems to pose a problem here, is that French stalls are completely closed, without the open spaces in front and on the sides which French tourists have often told me they find acutely embarrassing when in the US. Maybe if bathroom stalls in America were more private the people so fearful about meeting a disguised member of the opposite sex would calm down. The biggest danger here might be having to exchange a few words of small talk while waiting your turn.
106
While one would expect some backlash from certain religious groups identified as Christian, a majority of mainline Christian Churches support HERO ordinances. The Presbyterian Church (USA) has advocated such since 1978 declaring "there is no legal, social, or moral justification for denying homosexual persons access to the basic requirements of human social existence. " That would included transgendered persons as well.
19
Harold, say what you will but the PCUSA long ago left mainline status.
2
Perhaps an operational definition of transgender would clarify the situation. I am open to folks who really believe that they are different from their physical gender. Their rights should be protected.
I also think that this opens a complex box of questions that also deserve comments, answers and policy. At what point does a person become fully transgendered, if that is a verb?
The clearest definition is when they have transformed their physical gender and have adopted a life style consistent with their desired gender change. I know this can be attacked in many ways. And that there are zealots out there, on both sides, who will pick the notion apart based on hyperbole and misstatements. But the point is a reasonable, productive, constructive conversation.
It is a difficult question that merits reasonable debate. This article only points out the need to have the debate. It's demonization of the other side is premature. Sure the other side should be demonized for much of what they stand for. But adaptive societies move forward where they can.
Think of a young boy who is psychologically a girl. His mother teaches him the etiquette of the lady's bathroom. There is a complex pattern of body language and gesture that most ladies use to show respect and privacy in situations like this. It is different in a men's room. I have never been in a lady's room, but -based on their behavior coming out - it is quite different from a guy-thing.
Maybe?
I also think that this opens a complex box of questions that also deserve comments, answers and policy. At what point does a person become fully transgendered, if that is a verb?
The clearest definition is when they have transformed their physical gender and have adopted a life style consistent with their desired gender change. I know this can be attacked in many ways. And that there are zealots out there, on both sides, who will pick the notion apart based on hyperbole and misstatements. But the point is a reasonable, productive, constructive conversation.
It is a difficult question that merits reasonable debate. This article only points out the need to have the debate. It's demonization of the other side is premature. Sure the other side should be demonized for much of what they stand for. But adaptive societies move forward where they can.
Think of a young boy who is psychologically a girl. His mother teaches him the etiquette of the lady's bathroom. There is a complex pattern of body language and gesture that most ladies use to show respect and privacy in situations like this. It is different in a men's room. I have never been in a lady's room, but -based on their behavior coming out - it is quite different from a guy-thing.
Maybe?
2
The HERO ordinance states that “Gender Identity means an individual’s innate identification, appearance, expression or behavior as either male or female, although the same might not conform to the individual’s body or sex as assigned at birth” but it also states that “Sex means the biological difference between men and women, and gender.” So, Houston could continue to segregate bathrooms by sex. Gender dysphoria, hormone therapy, surgery and a change of wardrobe doesn’t change an individual’s biological sex. If men actually could become women or women could actually become men, there would be no transgender controversy.
10
If this bill is not feasible, all you have to do is require all places of public accommodation to build an additional pair of restrooms at enormous expense to the taxpayer and the private sector. Simple.
But make sure they are adequately maintained at all times, or else the city opens itself up to complaints of segregation.
But make sure they are adequately maintained at all times, or else the city opens itself up to complaints of segregation.
4
Women have the right to use a public bathroom with members of their same sex & gender (which are the same thing, despite lefty liberal attempts to re-write nature). That means GENETIC females only.
Men have the same right to bathrooms with only other genetic males.
If lefty liberals continue this despicable battle, they will lose.
Men have the same right to bathrooms with only other genetic males.
If lefty liberals continue this despicable battle, they will lose.
30
To be clear, you support women using the same bathroom as this guy: https://twitter.com/_michaelhughes1/status/636722952935899136 . Genetic females belong in the women's restroom, right? :rollseyes:
5
So should a person have to have an exam to see if they have an XX or XY chromosome pattern before they go into the bathroom?
11
Yup. And public places are gonna need a LOT of bathrooms... XX, XY, XYY, X, XXX, XXXX, XXXXX, XXY, XXXY, not to mention people who are mixtures and chimeras... then there are all the various people whose genetic sex doesnt match their physical sex... or people who share characteristics of both genders... its gonna get crazy down there.
6
What's to prevent a sex-crazed cross-dressed male rapist from entering women's bathrooms now?
368
In fact, there was a news story last week about a man who dresses as a woman to enter ladies bathrooms and take upshots under the stall.
8
What was already preventing him?
1
Exactly my thought. If a "Women only" sign is all it takes to prevent this scourge, why on earth haven't we posted "no mass shooting" signs on every school in this country!? And why stop there? We could solve so many problems through better signage!
3
So any biologic male can enter a women's restroom if he/she claims to be transgendered? Do straight women and girls have any rights to privacy?
56
Why do you assume all women using public restrooms are straight?
13
"So any biologic male can enter a women's restroom if he/she claims to be transgendered? Do straight women and girls have any rights to privacy?"
Guess what? Men are an everyday part of my existence. They aren't the enemy. I don't have "His" and "Hers" in my home. Some of my best friends are men. They have penises. They don't scare me.
If you go into a public restroom for privacy, you are barking up the wrong tree.
Guess what? Men are an everyday part of my existence. They aren't the enemy. I don't have "His" and "Hers" in my home. Some of my best friends are men. They have penises. They don't scare me.
If you go into a public restroom for privacy, you are barking up the wrong tree.
Why just straight women? Lesbians sure
don't want men in the women's room either.
don't want men in the women's room either.
4
They tried the same bathroom scare here in Maryland before a state wide vote. It didn't work and there have been zero cases like their scare tactics.
Not as hopeful that Texas will see the opposition's scam for what it is.
Not as hopeful that Texas will see the opposition's scam for what it is.
50
Right, the only case I know of was the complete opposite -- a group of presumably-straight women assaulted a trans woman for using a ladies room.
Let’s not bury the lead here. The issue isn’t really gender identity or sexual orientation – regardless of the sad cowboy’s hashtag. These attributes really are secondary, but because they’re highly controversial will tend to distract and masquerade as the actual issue.
The issue that’s being fought in Houston is the extent to which non-secular interests may define the constraints of community. Where we should end as a people is that those interests are confined to those who voluntarily embrace a religion’s convictions, so long as laws are respected, but that parochial interests should not be forced on anyone else.
On one hand you’d think, like the scientific basis of evolution or of global warming, that the jury’s been in on the issue for some time; but we all know that it’s still being argued. It’s also a close call in America, that’s always given a great deal of deference to expression of religious views. But, in the end and from our founding documents, we’ve given precedence in this power to define community to majority will of the people within the constraints of constitutional rights and obligations, and not to religious minorities. The arc of responses to this question of the protection of gender identity in Houston, at least as it relates to nature breaks, makes it clear where the weight of public will lies.
Seems to me that the system is working in Houston, whether or not Prop. 1 is passed as expected.
The issue that’s being fought in Houston is the extent to which non-secular interests may define the constraints of community. Where we should end as a people is that those interests are confined to those who voluntarily embrace a religion’s convictions, so long as laws are respected, but that parochial interests should not be forced on anyone else.
On one hand you’d think, like the scientific basis of evolution or of global warming, that the jury’s been in on the issue for some time; but we all know that it’s still being argued. It’s also a close call in America, that’s always given a great deal of deference to expression of religious views. But, in the end and from our founding documents, we’ve given precedence in this power to define community to majority will of the people within the constraints of constitutional rights and obligations, and not to religious minorities. The arc of responses to this question of the protection of gender identity in Houston, at least as it relates to nature breaks, makes it clear where the weight of public will lies.
Seems to me that the system is working in Houston, whether or not Prop. 1 is passed as expected.
3
Would you feel comfortable sending your female children to shared gender bathrooms at all ages? At 5 years? At 6? At 7? Nothing to do with religion, but facts, reports by police and social services of assaults on women and children committed by men. Would you feel comfortable sending your daughter into a room of anonymous men and pulls her underwear down in a stall amongst them? That is a degree of trust most adult women don't possess. Why should they?
5
cindy:
The only exceptions to females by your definition who would be in those bathrooms would be transgender individuals who present themselves as females and live female lives. Prop. 1 is an acknowledgment that they ARE females in the eyes of the law. So, what I WOULD favor is cutting these people some slack; but that in the case of persons claiming such status to gain entry to a woman's bathroom who then assaulted women or girls sexually, we build a non-air-conditioned prison in Death Valley to which we banish them for life (probably a short one).
But come on. Sending a girl into a room of anonymous men? There aren't that many transgender people in all of Houston (or probably the entire State of Oregon). You'd need to come over to my neck of the woods and decide to look for a woman's bathroom in a bar passed by NYC's Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Pride Parade (now THAT's a mouthful). And most people in NYC would advise you to hold it until you get uptown.
The only exceptions to females by your definition who would be in those bathrooms would be transgender individuals who present themselves as females and live female lives. Prop. 1 is an acknowledgment that they ARE females in the eyes of the law. So, what I WOULD favor is cutting these people some slack; but that in the case of persons claiming such status to gain entry to a woman's bathroom who then assaulted women or girls sexually, we build a non-air-conditioned prison in Death Valley to which we banish them for life (probably a short one).
But come on. Sending a girl into a room of anonymous men? There aren't that many transgender people in all of Houston (or probably the entire State of Oregon). You'd need to come over to my neck of the woods and decide to look for a woman's bathroom in a bar passed by NYC's Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Pride Parade (now THAT's a mouthful). And most people in NYC would advise you to hold it until you get uptown.
We shouldn't be reining in these pastors. Eliminate their church's tax exempt status so they can speak their minds in the pulpit!
146
What as hame that well into the 21st century we're arguing over civil rights issues because of "religion." I simply don't understand the motivations of those driven to marginalize people because of their sexual orientation or gender identity.
25
A lot of these folks are under the impression that God would curse the US for “tolerating” homosexuality. Any new rights for LGBTs would bring the US closer to certain condemnation…never mind the fact that the US already has a lot of wicked and corrupt practices worthy of condemnation. Also, many believe that homosexuality is a sin. To grant LGBT rights would say that legally speaking, sin is okay. They haven’t yet figured out (or perhaps don’t want to figure out) that the US is not a theocracy.
5
Mayor Parker conducted a vicious, personal campaign, to get this measure jammed through before her final term was up, instead of just letting the voters decide. Her motive was clearly to help her future political aspirations. City officials harassed religious opponents - many who were prominent Black pastors - through legal intimidation. She tried to manipulate language on the ballot initiative, to confuse voters, before being reprimanded by the Court. Parker's pettiness has turned off voters of all races, which now endangers this effort. If it fails, she has no one to blame, but herself.
10
Sorry to inform the Texas writer but in the Northeast men dressed as women have been arrested for peeping and solicitation of sex in female designated public restrooms. They claim to be cross dressers. How your tell a pervert in female garb from a legitimate transgender person?
59
And how is such behavior dependent on HERO-type laws?
You did say they got arrested, right?
You did say they got arrested, right?
16
Citations of such arrests, news reports, etc. - please, taxpayer. If you make such an assertion you should provide some factual proof if you wish to be believed. Otherwise you are just saying that we should believe you because you say so - and I won't believe you without some proof.
15
sad taxpayer raises the specter of "men dressed as women have been arrested for peeping and solicitation." I see the word arrested here. What exactly is your argument? Peeping is still illegal.
This argument is like the smears and slurs against gay people in locker rooms and the military - all those tough men who get the vapors at the idea that someone might see them undressed.
This argument is like the smears and slurs against gay people in locker rooms and the military - all those tough men who get the vapors at the idea that someone might see them undressed.
12
The proposal to ban discrimination in public facilities is an anti-discrimination measure with far-reaching impact. It protects us all from discrimination in our daily lives and guarantees our civil rights across the board. No more clerks who deny marriage licenses based on their religious beliefs. As noted here, similar measures are in force in cities across the country. And pretty much wherever this law has been proposed, opponents have raised the transgender bathroom argument. Thereby, a measure that embodies the hopes and dreams of black,. female, and LGBT equal rights advocates has consistently degenerated into a debate of which bathrooms transgenders use. Common sense requires that the transgender bathroom issue be exempted from the measure and left for another day. When the public is inclined to pass the most comprehensive civil rights bill ever proposed, chancing failure over a bathroom issue that arises once in a blue moon is, to put it mildly, not worth it.
69
There is no "transgender bathroom issue." The word bathroom does not apply anywhere in the ordinance. It is a non-issue invented by the opposition to scare people into voting against it. Can't "leave out" something that isn't in the ordinance, and certainly can't tell an entire group of people that their civil rights aren't a protected class because of fear mongers.
27
michjas - "Common sense requires that the transgender bathroom issue be exempted from the measure and left for another day."
Ah, compromise, but that's only required for Republicans and conservatives, right?
Ah, compromise, but that's only required for Republicans and conservatives, right?
When men are raped, assaulted, and murdered by women for decades in the same numbers as women still suffer, at every age, then we can begin to talk about a gender problem? I feel the safety of children and women should be a primary consideration. It's hilarious that transgender rights trump safety concerns for a.vulnerable population that can't even get their rape kits tested by the millions across.the country. Gee, transgender folks should surely see this?
7
Regrettably, the 2015 vote to see if Houston will (belatedly) join other major cities has turned into a rehash of ex-mayor Louie Welch's 1985 campaign against gay rights:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/05/20/1093065/-Remembering-LGBT-Histo...
In 1985, Houston rejected leading the way - 30 years later, following June's SCOTUS decision, will Houston correct their error ?
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/05/20/1093065/-Remembering-LGBT-Histo...
In 1985, Houston rejected leading the way - 30 years later, following June's SCOTUS decision, will Houston correct their error ?
8