Bravo, readers! I was deeply concerned that a study purporting to show educational achievement in (gasp!) a "Republican run" state would give pause to the NY Times core readership. But your universal rejection of the study's conclusions and methodology has been remarkably swift, if predictably superficial.
6
THE TRUTH EMERGES! Students who are disadvantaged will have more difficulty with academic achievement! It is not due to plots by teachers or teachers' unions. We teachers have known that all along.
If we were really serious about improving academic performance in the US we would seek to implement a plan like that in Denmark, where when women find that they are pregnant, a visiting nurse stops by to check on the health, living condition and needs of the expectant mother, then introduces her to other recent or expectant mothers so that they form a community support network. There is emphasis on healthful, supportive environments for people from cradle to grave in Denmark. Call it nanny government if you like, but it works better than our system.
If we were really serious about improving academic performance in the US we would seek to implement a plan like that in Denmark, where when women find that they are pregnant, a visiting nurse stops by to check on the health, living condition and needs of the expectant mother, then introduces her to other recent or expectant mothers so that they form a community support network. There is emphasis on healthful, supportive environments for people from cradle to grave in Denmark. Call it nanny government if you like, but it works better than our system.
5
In fact when you correct for demographics American schools have always done well in comparison to other countries. Public school teachers have been getting a bum rap.
7
Ha ha, a minor point, TX and FL excel in NORMALIZED test scores.
Why dies this not matter to the author?
I live in Texas and it matters to me.
Why dies this not matter to the author?
I live in Texas and it matters to me.
2
This is the worst analysis I've ever seen that wasn't published on April 1st. The underlying hypothesis is that poor and minority kids should be expected to do poorly, so rather than actually teach them, "adjust" their scores and voila! you have achieved equality (or, in this analysis, superiority). That they are still ignorant of everything they need to know in life is irrelevant. If anyone still doubts the pernicious stupidity of testing in lieu of learning, here's the proof.
8
Makes perfect sense to me. Here in Palm Beach County Florida along the coast we have some of the highest test scores in the state. However, in western Palm Beach County along Lake Okeechobee we have Belle Glade, Pahokee, and South Bay where scores are the worst in the state. When the combined results are read, our county is slightly above average. Is this low scoring area disadvantaged, unbelievably so. Along the coast, mostly affluent. Study makes sense to me when you see coastal high school have multiple kids score over 1350 on the SAT. The Palm Beach County School District has one of the largest budgets in this Nation. Year after year we spends millions and search for answers to achieve better results from these struggling schools and NOTHING ever works. So if 50 schools are doing great and 10 are dragging the scores down, the 50 schools are better than the overall rating, right, plain and simple.
2
I can't speak about Florida, but Texas has problems with education. The emphasis on learning and critical thinking there is weak. For one, the high school football coaches are often paid more than teachers. What kind of message does that send to students and parents? Second, schools in poorer districts receive far less funding than those in affluent areas. And even in affluent areas the wealthy send their children to private schools, knowing that the public schools aren't so great. I lived in Texas for a number of years. I was shocked at how uninformed and passive voters there were regarding issues of importance to localities, the state, health care, education and the nation. In one small but important example, voters there allowed the sitting governor (Rick Perry) to get away with not having a single debate in the 2010 general election for governor, even as the state was on the verge of making significant cuts in its budget. With such a docile electorate that shows such little interest in rigorous debate on issues that impact its own citizens I can only say that Texas is receiving the education that it deserves. Texas is a wealthy state (unlike many others in the South). It has made a choice not to emphasis education. It's too bad. Texas could be a great state if it had its priorities right.
6
"Adjusted scores" is now new code for "lowered expectations for blacks, Hispanics and native Americans". Did I miss any other "disadvantaged" groups?
3
"Did I miss any other "disadvantaged" groups?"
Pacific Islanders.
Pacific Islanders.
1
They had better investigate TX and FL. There has got to be a mistake in both those States scoring.
1
Outside of the federal NAEP, on which Texas always does well considering its demographics, is there much evidence that Texas is an educational superstar? For example, how do Texas's SAT and ACT scores compare to California's?
2
Many commentators seem to have disregarded the Top-Performing School chart inserted into the article. It shows that Texas and Florida schools perform better than New York, Illinois, Michigan and California in "raw" scores as well as "adjusted" scores.
2
The comments in this article are incredibly discouraging. The political polarization of this country has become a dense cataract, clouding the judgement of both liberal and conservative constituencies. Most comments are a variant of 2 themes:
1) Florida and Texas still have low scores overall, and score normalization by adjusting for race / immigrant status / SES does not excuse this.
2) The numbers are being massaged
It is argued that low-performing schools should receive increased funding to off-set the poor start disadvantaged students receive; thus any evidence suggesting that schools in states with limited educational budget create relatively better outcomes for these populations must immediately be discredited, even when reported from a moderately liberal think-tank like the Urban Institute.
I'm the son of 2 Hispanic immigrants and was raised exclusively in Florida. I am fortunate to have attend one of this country's top liberal arts colleges and to currently be attending an excellent medical school on significant academic scholarship. Not once have I felt unprepared for my coursework.
Is it outside the realm of possibility that Florida and Texas might have some lessons to teach other states, like California, which also bear a significant immigration burden? Are we becoming so myopic that alternative discussions are discredited as quickly on the left as they are on the Right? We cannot let political polarization cloud our judgement and threaten our rationality.
1) Florida and Texas still have low scores overall, and score normalization by adjusting for race / immigrant status / SES does not excuse this.
2) The numbers are being massaged
It is argued that low-performing schools should receive increased funding to off-set the poor start disadvantaged students receive; thus any evidence suggesting that schools in states with limited educational budget create relatively better outcomes for these populations must immediately be discredited, even when reported from a moderately liberal think-tank like the Urban Institute.
I'm the son of 2 Hispanic immigrants and was raised exclusively in Florida. I am fortunate to have attend one of this country's top liberal arts colleges and to currently be attending an excellent medical school on significant academic scholarship. Not once have I felt unprepared for my coursework.
Is it outside the realm of possibility that Florida and Texas might have some lessons to teach other states, like California, which also bear a significant immigration burden? Are we becoming so myopic that alternative discussions are discredited as quickly on the left as they are on the Right? We cannot let political polarization cloud our judgement and threaten our rationality.
12
Your analysis of the "state of affairs" with our politics is "spot on". More importantly, you've actually identified the major problem with our education system nationwide (not discussed here, in the article, or by politicians) by your own personal experience. The problem is not money, unions, tests, or curriculum. The problem is too many students simply do not avail themselves to the education provided. Simply put, unlike your story (congratulations, btw), we have too many kids (and their families) that don't care about school.
7
Charles and PC: Your comments reflect our societal myth that ours is an equal opportunity society. It IS a myth. I'm not going to type a long argument, merely refer you to Annette LaRue's great study called "Unequal Childhoods", the 2011 edition wherein she does a 10 year follow-up on the children studied---Black, White, Middle Class, Working Class and Poor. See Table D.
What you are unaware of isn't that the WC and P don't care. They have a different strategy for raising children---Natural Development--- caused in part by their difficult situations. The MC use "Concerted Cultivation", with high expectations and the ability to assist in their children's development. PC: I'm willing to bet a lot of money that your parents had high expectations of you and worked hard to provide as many opportunities as they possibly could. Furthermore, you apparently had both parents at home. What a gift!! 73% of Black children are born to single mothers, almost 60% of Hispanics. What chance do they have? They will be poor. Of course, there are always exceptions but they are just that, exceptions.
You might also check out "Social Darwinism in American Thought", an old book but still relevant. Horatio Alger is alive and well.
What you are unaware of isn't that the WC and P don't care. They have a different strategy for raising children---Natural Development--- caused in part by their difficult situations. The MC use "Concerted Cultivation", with high expectations and the ability to assist in their children's development. PC: I'm willing to bet a lot of money that your parents had high expectations of you and worked hard to provide as many opportunities as they possibly could. Furthermore, you apparently had both parents at home. What a gift!! 73% of Black children are born to single mothers, almost 60% of Hispanics. What chance do they have? They will be poor. Of course, there are always exceptions but they are just that, exceptions.
You might also check out "Social Darwinism in American Thought", an old book but still relevant. Horatio Alger is alive and well.
So your telling me that if a kid's parent's won't teach her english and won't let her study because it's more important she wash dishes at the restaurant or sweep the floors at the dry cleaning business, then that kid's test scores are going to drag down the average???? Shocking indeed!
As someone whose Brother, Sister, Sister in Law & Mother in Law all teach elementary and middle school, I can tell you that the single biggest obstacle to education in our society is children coming to school that cannot speak English. The untold millions of dollars and thousands of hours spent on ESL education is doing more damage to the education and economic infrastructure of our country than any single biggest factor. We are the only 1st world country without an official language. Our teachers cannot be held responsible for teaching children whose parent's don't even ensure they can communicate with their educators.
The problem has nothing to do with dollars spent as Texas has some of the highest per capita student spending in the country. The problem is also that we are approaching this issue incorrectly. We put systems in place to teach all subjects in the native tongue of immigrant children. This is approaching it completely wrong and enabling the problem. We should take these children and put them into an intensive english learning experience 1st and teach nothing else until they are up to grade level in english. Then catch them up on the other subjects. Its the only way.
As someone whose Brother, Sister, Sister in Law & Mother in Law all teach elementary and middle school, I can tell you that the single biggest obstacle to education in our society is children coming to school that cannot speak English. The untold millions of dollars and thousands of hours spent on ESL education is doing more damage to the education and economic infrastructure of our country than any single biggest factor. We are the only 1st world country without an official language. Our teachers cannot be held responsible for teaching children whose parent's don't even ensure they can communicate with their educators.
The problem has nothing to do with dollars spent as Texas has some of the highest per capita student spending in the country. The problem is also that we are approaching this issue incorrectly. We put systems in place to teach all subjects in the native tongue of immigrant children. This is approaching it completely wrong and enabling the problem. We should take these children and put them into an intensive english learning experience 1st and teach nothing else until they are up to grade level in english. Then catch them up on the other subjects. Its the only way.
7
Of course, if teachers were allowed to teach instead of test all the time, the kids just might be learning better from sea to shining sea. But no... teachers have to resign themselves to laws and regulations created by businesspersons and politicians, two categories of people who usually have no experience in education, other than they ( mostly) graduated from high school and (mostly) graduated from college, and somehow think that yhey know more than educators who specialized in education in college and graduate school.
Of course, when you have real estate tycoons, brain surgeons and ex-CEOs running for President, I guess it is easy to think that you have the knowledge to do something your totally unprepared for, like businesspersons and politicians telling teachers how to teach, and then setting up ridiculous tests without knowledge of what the teachers would and should be teaching. If you are a politician in Texas, you set up your own textbook companies that spread the conservative message and then you pressure other states to use those same texts. If you are a businessperson, you find a lucrative and sometimes state-helped opportunity in private shools, cherry-picking the best students to pad your scores and reason for being.
The author of this article, Leonhardt, barely scratched the surface of who, what, where, when and how teachers are making public school systems actually function. It isn't the politicians, and it isn't know-it-all businesspersons. It is teachers.
Of course, when you have real estate tycoons, brain surgeons and ex-CEOs running for President, I guess it is easy to think that you have the knowledge to do something your totally unprepared for, like businesspersons and politicians telling teachers how to teach, and then setting up ridiculous tests without knowledge of what the teachers would and should be teaching. If you are a politician in Texas, you set up your own textbook companies that spread the conservative message and then you pressure other states to use those same texts. If you are a businessperson, you find a lucrative and sometimes state-helped opportunity in private shools, cherry-picking the best students to pad your scores and reason for being.
The author of this article, Leonhardt, barely scratched the surface of who, what, where, when and how teachers are making public school systems actually function. It isn't the politicians, and it isn't know-it-all businesspersons. It is teachers.
11
Worked as an educator in CT for forty years, and my district had an expert at central offices who could massage the numbers to make the schools look like the biggest success story in the state. We all knew that minorities were doing poorly in classes but if you looked at the statistics coming out a very different image emerged. Why was this done? Money, of course. Federal funds and grants from companies like GE for the purpose of improving scores and graduation rates had to show successful results or else the money would dry up. Can you blame the school districts for learning how to game the system? Not if the name of the game is to get the money or else.
6
More dumbing down? Children of immigrants always tend to do very well because of the emphasis most immigrants place on education, something they had to forego to provide immediate income.
I expect to see such an inconclusive article in WSJ(never renewed my subscription after releasing the slanted bias in their articles-thanks, Murdock)
When did we become such a nation of coziness, irresponsibility, political correctness and excuses?
The fact that children are less prepared is a major red flag. We need to address that, not get comfortable with it. It is like wanting to go green but drilling new wells to keep oil abundant.
It is this attitude of complacency that will continue to erode our once dominant place globally.
I expect to see such an inconclusive article in WSJ(never renewed my subscription after releasing the slanted bias in their articles-thanks, Murdock)
When did we become such a nation of coziness, irresponsibility, political correctness and excuses?
The fact that children are less prepared is a major red flag. We need to address that, not get comfortable with it. It is like wanting to go green but drilling new wells to keep oil abundant.
It is this attitude of complacency that will continue to erode our once dominant place globally.
3
Most immigrants from Mexico have only elementary school education. This is why Texas is tied for second among states with a high school graduation rates of 88 percent, but at the same time is the state with the highest percent of resident without a high school diploma.
http://www.texastribune.org/2015/02/20/texas-high-school-graduation-rate...
http://www.texastribune.org/2015/02/20/texas-high-school-graduation-rate...
3
How does Chingos actually ask third and fourth graders about the number of books in their houses? How is this done within the testing context? To call such matters suspect would be a wild understatement. What Chingos mentions, but fails to dive into at any depth, is the differing levels of poverty required from state to state to trigger eligibility for free lunch. Mightn't some northeast states have wildly differing standards than those from the deep South and Appalachia? He mentions the potential to create distortions, but leaves it alone.
Also, how has the concept of teaching to the test, and concomitant widespread teaching (cf Atlanta) affected the legitimacy of the tests? Again, it is unaddressed.
And state aid inequalities are a huge untouched hornet's nest. Here in New York, the Campaign for Fiscal Equity sued over systematic underfunding of Urban districts in the state aid formula that strongly favored affluent suburban districts. They won a $4 BILLION judgement in court. The state "settled" for 50 cents on the dollar, agreeing to pay urban districts $2 billion to equalize. That settlement has remained unpaid in its entirety through the administrations of George Pataki, Elliott Spitzer, David Paterson and Andrew Cuomo, 12 years of, as King put it, the government writing a bad check. This time, though, it's literally true. And Andy Cuomo would have less rationale to push charters if he paid public schools what is due them.
Also, how has the concept of teaching to the test, and concomitant widespread teaching (cf Atlanta) affected the legitimacy of the tests? Again, it is unaddressed.
And state aid inequalities are a huge untouched hornet's nest. Here in New York, the Campaign for Fiscal Equity sued over systematic underfunding of Urban districts in the state aid formula that strongly favored affluent suburban districts. They won a $4 BILLION judgement in court. The state "settled" for 50 cents on the dollar, agreeing to pay urban districts $2 billion to equalize. That settlement has remained unpaid in its entirety through the administrations of George Pataki, Elliott Spitzer, David Paterson and Andrew Cuomo, 12 years of, as King put it, the government writing a bad check. This time, though, it's literally true. And Andy Cuomo would have less rationale to push charters if he paid public schools what is due them.
1
New York City has the biggest and best tax base in New York State, with hundreds of billions of dollars worth of commercial property to tax. The idea that the city deserved MORE funds was the product of political and financial illiteracy. city schools being underfunded is a choice the city has made to spend more on other, less generally accepted, areas of government.
2
New York City does not fund schools with property taxes. Most of the rest of the state does. It leads to huge disparities in both spending and in state aid to districts, as well as property tax bills, even in adjacent neighborhoods. Nassau County, wher I live, has 1.1 million population, adults and children. It has 54 separate school districts. Suffolk, with 700,000 population, has an astonishing 70 separate districts. This allows for segregation. But per pupil spending ranges from $18,000 per pupil per year to almost $40,000 in Gold Coast districts. ALL of those figures far surpass NYCs spending, special education excluded.
But that wasn't the point. The point was that state aid under both Cuomo Pere and Pataki favored districts needing little, if any help, like Great Neck, Syosset, Scarsdale and the like over poorer urban districts. The failure in budgeting came at the STATE level, and that is why the state LOST *at trial,* and was willing to settle. They just have chosen to welsh on the settlement they AGREED TO.
By the way, Amanda, if the city wanted to fund its schools with property taxes, it would need the legislature and the governor to assent to the change. For a New Yorker, you don't know much about how the government (dys)functions.
But that wasn't the point. The point was that state aid under both Cuomo Pere and Pataki favored districts needing little, if any help, like Great Neck, Syosset, Scarsdale and the like over poorer urban districts. The failure in budgeting came at the STATE level, and that is why the state LOST *at trial,* and was willing to settle. They just have chosen to welsh on the settlement they AGREED TO.
By the way, Amanda, if the city wanted to fund its schools with property taxes, it would need the legislature and the governor to assent to the change. For a New Yorker, you don't know much about how the government (dys)functions.
I have several issues with this article. First, how do we know these adjustments are valid? Are there other organizations that adjust this data and do they come to the same conclusion? More importantly, does it matter what the adjusted results are. You either know can read and do math well or you don't. When looking for a job, no one will say he or she had good comprehension considering their background. It's just how well they do something. The raw data is important. Children have to read and know math at a certain level irrespective or their backgrounds. This is letting educators off the hook. It is saying "I know your students do not read or do math well but that's OK given their circumstances. But it's not OK. These students will be at a disadvantage as adults.
This article appears to be based on the unfortunate assumption that white people are smarter than minorities. According to this article, minorities, and the states that have a disproportionate amount of them, should be held to lower standards, and therefore mediocrity for white people is a success for equivalently performing minorities. I don't like it.
2
The article is based on tests that are the same for all students nationwide. The standards are the same for all students. The tests show Hispanic, African American and low-income students score lower than non-Hispanic white and Asian students nationwide. The test results show that Florida and Texas are doing a better job than other states at educating Hispanic, African American and lower-income students. Only 30 percent of Texas K-12 students are non-Hispanic white, yet Texas ranked 32nd.
3
Doest that mean future generations of Texans/Floridians are well trained to become highly efficient blue collar workers and leave politics to the Ivy League thinking elite?
2
Only five states send more students to Yale than Texas.
4
If you massage the data enough, President W looks like a superlative president with long lasting benefits worldwide.
5
This article is not very well put together and is very incomplete. The author barely explained the 'adjustments' to the state scores but it was assumed after reading that the adjustments had to do with taking into account demographic diversity. The agenda behind the article is also not very clear. Are we trying to defeat wrongful assumptions about the quality of our education? Is it to defeat biases among researchers or educators who may think that quality of education is better along the coasts (or states that have recently gone Democrat)?
After reading this article it became very clear to me why we need something like a Common Core to make sure that school systems are on the same page, and that we also need to make sure that people of varying economic means have the same access to quality education as more affluent people. If everyone has an equal shot at receiving a good education, then perhaps this will be a step towards reducing over inequality.
After reading this article it became very clear to me why we need something like a Common Core to make sure that school systems are on the same page, and that we also need to make sure that people of varying economic means have the same access to quality education as more affluent people. If everyone has an equal shot at receiving a good education, then perhaps this will be a step towards reducing over inequality.
4
My mother, although born in the United States, did not speak any English upon entering kindergarten in the 1930s. My mom's parents (ethnic Greeks exiles from Turkey) both had a 3rd grade education. My father's parents were from Eastern Europe and also had less than a 4th grade education. Despite this, both my parents graduated near the top of their class in high school and both attended college, despite being from blue collar (my mom's family) and almost destitute backgrounds (my father's family). My mom also never attended 'English as a second language' classes but figured out how to well along the way. I don't believe a families economic status has as much to do with how well as child succeeds in school (or not) but how strongly the will to succeed that burns within the child. My mother's family didn't want my mom to go to college but did, while in my father saw the example of drunken and unemployed violent father as something to avoid.
Texas has a lot of poor Mexican and Central American (mostly illegal) migrants and I can only hope that they soon begin to prize education as something to strive for, rather than that being an exception to the rule
Texas has a lot of poor Mexican and Central American (mostly illegal) migrants and I can only hope that they soon begin to prize education as something to strive for, rather than that being an exception to the rule
8
The biggest concern I have with this analysis is that it assumes certain facts that are not in existence. For example, all racial minority students are assigned a factor based on the performance, historically, of racial minority students. Yet there are differences between states on this very issue.
I've also said this before: if we teach to pass a test, students will pass the test but they may not understand how to solve a problem.
I've also said this before: if we teach to pass a test, students will pass the test but they may not understand how to solve a problem.
6
And once the kid is out of school and can't get a well paying job we can just make an adjustment again. We will just tell them they are getting paid more then they really are.
6
I can affirm the importance given to math in Dallas area schools. I do not know how this compares to other states or the rest of Texas. But I know that children, based on their aptitude, are taught advanced math. A 4th grader works through 5th grade honors math problems. I have reviewed their books and know they get to solve problems that are quite complex for their age.
This was an important factor for my spouse and me to choose to to live here, and we are happy with our decision for our child.
This was an important factor for my spouse and me to choose to to live here, and we are happy with our decision for our child.
5
Feel the same about San Antonio. One reason we moved here and it has worked out well. All 3 kids have gone to good colleges (which we saved for).
2
The test scores are such a failure. Every parent knows it. To think Texas, the state whose textbooks deny slavery, is near the top is ludicrous. I've lived in Houston and now live in the Tampa Bay area. My work involved following the habits and trends of young people. Believe me, they are very ill educated in both states. It is truly astounding how little basic education these high school "graduates" know.
17
Robert,
I agree with you. I don't blame the teachers, I blame the system. I was a math tutor and private home school teacher. I have seen a young woman graduate high school at the calculus level who couldn't even pass the community college entrance exams. She had no idea how to solve basic algebra problems without a calculator. I found this to be consistent with many of my public school students. They are taught to pass a test not to know the subject.
I agree with you. I don't blame the teachers, I blame the system. I was a math tutor and private home school teacher. I have seen a young woman graduate high school at the calculus level who couldn't even pass the community college entrance exams. She had no idea how to solve basic algebra problems without a calculator. I found this to be consistent with many of my public school students. They are taught to pass a test not to know the subject.
6
"Texas, the state whose textbooks deny slavery..."
Take your medication. Your sense of reality is slipping again.
Take your medication. Your sense of reality is slipping again.
2
There is no such thing as Texas textbooks. Texas uses the same textbooks as other states, and those used in Texas schools don't "deny slavery." The curriculum approved by the Texas State Board of Education requires Texas students to be able to explain reasons for the development of the plantation system, the transatlantic slave trade, and the spread of slavery; analyze the impact of slavery on different sections of the United States, and explain the causes of the Civil War, including slavery.
2
What with No Child Left Behind, Charters, State Control over both curriculums and testing, the variables are unlimited rendering the results,at best questionable.
2
Many of these states are affluent or predominantly white — if not both. The new analysis suggests that many of their school systems have better reputations than they deserve. They enroll a lot of students who come to school well prepared and thus excel on tests. But the schools themselves are not doing as good a job as their test scores suggest....
[ I really do not understand this passage, which strikes me as self-contradictory. ]
[ I really do not understand this passage, which strikes me as self-contradictory. ]
2
Seems clear.
White wealthy states, many peopled by liberals, NIMBY's basically, who talk about diversity but don't practice it, who are sanctimonious about illegal immigration (let them all in, just not into my state) have better prepared students who get good scores despite the relatively poor performance of the teaching environment. Since these students come from stable white families, in homogeneous environments, this did not make much difference to their test scores, or at least not as much as it should have given the poor teaching environment.
And poor Texas and Florida, which have to struggle with a diverse student population, recently arrived, poor English speaking skills, do an excellent job given these built-in disadvantages, but get a reputation, undeserved, as dumb states.
In other words, typical liberal sleight of hand.
Seems clear.
White wealthy states, many peopled by liberals, NIMBY's basically, who talk about diversity but don't practice it, who are sanctimonious about illegal immigration (let them all in, just not into my state) have better prepared students who get good scores despite the relatively poor performance of the teaching environment. Since these students come from stable white families, in homogeneous environments, this did not make much difference to their test scores, or at least not as much as it should have given the poor teaching environment.
And poor Texas and Florida, which have to struggle with a diverse student population, recently arrived, poor English speaking skills, do an excellent job given these built-in disadvantages, but get a reputation, undeserved, as dumb states.
In other words, typical liberal sleight of hand.
Seems clear.
10
It means that schools are irrelevant; only race income and gender matter. So lets get rid of them and give the money to people to hire private tutors. Ho, ho.
Let's face it, most people cannot accept that 50% of anything, including their children, the schools they attend and those who administer and teach in them are below average.
Let's face it, most people cannot accept that 50% of anything, including their children, the schools they attend and those who administer and teach in them are below average.
1
John,
You seem to go out of your way to be divisive rather than "clear".
FYI. States with most immigrants (in order); California, New York, New Jersey, Florida, Nevada, Hawaii, Texas, Massachuetts, Maryland, Illinois.
Every state spends plenty of money for education. This has nothing to do with rich vs poor, white vs mixed, or liberal vs conservative. This has to do with teaching and testing students in your community the best you can while reporting the data (comparing districts) in a meaningful way.
Though not what Nancy may have been thinking, since schools essentially mirror their communities' values and work ethic, the author's assertion that the schools in communities less affected by immigration have students and teachers that somehow are "not doing as well as they think" is, in fact, contradictory. Ironically, this, unwittingly, reinforces the liberal argument that the 1% (and the kids in their schools) already "have it made" by suggesting that their schools should be held to a different standard.
You seem to go out of your way to be divisive rather than "clear".
FYI. States with most immigrants (in order); California, New York, New Jersey, Florida, Nevada, Hawaii, Texas, Massachuetts, Maryland, Illinois.
Every state spends plenty of money for education. This has nothing to do with rich vs poor, white vs mixed, or liberal vs conservative. This has to do with teaching and testing students in your community the best you can while reporting the data (comparing districts) in a meaningful way.
Though not what Nancy may have been thinking, since schools essentially mirror their communities' values and work ethic, the author's assertion that the schools in communities less affected by immigration have students and teachers that somehow are "not doing as well as they think" is, in fact, contradictory. Ironically, this, unwittingly, reinforces the liberal argument that the 1% (and the kids in their schools) already "have it made" by suggesting that their schools should be held to a different standard.
I was educated in New England, my kids in Florida. I always thought they received as good, if not better, elementary and high school education here than I received in New England. I do however understand that it all depends on where you reside in Florida and that even if you reside in an affluent community there is always constant pressure from retirees and Republican tax cutters to slash school budgets and to lower property taxes than pay for education. So, while it is good news about the Florida education system there is always that constant reminder that there are those that wish to dummy it down.
3
The key problem in any data-driven and high pressure environment is that those in charge can resort to manipulating the data to make it appear that they are being effective.
This can happen in business, when extreme pressure to have continuous improvements in earnings per share, in education with its ridiculous high stakes standardized testing, and in autos, as shown in the Volkswagen massive emissions fraud.
I would encourage there be made some very careful investigation into the integrity of these numbers to see if there is a true comparison among the states.
If you would like to see true effectiveness in human capital development among a poverty student environment, examine the thirty year track record of the Hobart Shakespearean process developed by Rafe Esquith who uses classic literature as a base plus life skills learning to eradicate poverty among his kids from non-English speaking homes in Los Angeles.
His allocation of time to drill for standardized tests: ZERO!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYnkRvYGnEk
This can happen in business, when extreme pressure to have continuous improvements in earnings per share, in education with its ridiculous high stakes standardized testing, and in autos, as shown in the Volkswagen massive emissions fraud.
I would encourage there be made some very careful investigation into the integrity of these numbers to see if there is a true comparison among the states.
If you would like to see true effectiveness in human capital development among a poverty student environment, examine the thirty year track record of the Hobart Shakespearean process developed by Rafe Esquith who uses classic literature as a base plus life skills learning to eradicate poverty among his kids from non-English speaking homes in Los Angeles.
His allocation of time to drill for standardized tests: ZERO!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYnkRvYGnEk
2
None of these results matter as much as the current teacher shortage. As long as the NYT, other media, presidential candidates, President Obama, Arne Duncan, and other public figures continue to demean, denigrate, and dismiss the value of the education professional educators, the teacher hemorrhage will continue or increase. As long as teachers have no job stability, and their evaluations depend upon test results which are not correlated with their instruction, we will continue to lose current and potential teachers.
What this means in my school is this: we now have a chronic substitute shortage. Literacy specialists are pulled to cover for absent classroom teachers. Children who need extra help with literacy don't receive it. And yet teachers are responsible for improving student literacy scores...
What this means in my school is this: we now have a chronic substitute shortage. Literacy specialists are pulled to cover for absent classroom teachers. Children who need extra help with literacy don't receive it. And yet teachers are responsible for improving student literacy scores...
10
It is interesting to note the discussions on charter schools. Charter schools in my area specifically discriminate against certain groups of students. In particular, the local charter high school doesn't admit students from junior high unless they have a 2.0 or higher gap. Those who can't meet that standard go to the regular public high school. That's right; the charter is a publicly funded school that has higher scores due to the fact that they don't have lower achieving students. In fact, it is a school of publicly funded discrimination. Certainly, it's not apples to apples.
11
A lot of charter schools in my area also screen out special needs and english as a second langauge students. The charters have a higher 'starting point'.
5
Wouldn't that be the same as magnet schools? There are magnet HS in our area that screen for GPA also. Sort of like the HS in NY that you have to pass a test to get into. I can see the problem if your area has no special HS, but it doesn't seem much different than what is done with specialized HS.
Sounds like we need to do more to create that safety net, if lower socio-economic families are starting a few rungs down on the ladder of life. Perhaps if such kids began life with the same guaranteed medical care, food, shelter and safe neighborhoods those scores would be even higher--and the incarceration rate in those states much lower. The UI offers the perfect argument for expanded government intervention.
6
Reports like this don't even touch the issue of quality of teaching materials. I would take little comfort from a Texas student mastering the material in those Texas School Board-approved textbooks...
Students who manage to excel in poor educational environments often face a grim awakening when they gain admission to good universities. I've seen, myself, how disheartening it is for someone who was always "top of the class" to be shockingly unprepared for college or graduate work in a genuinely rigorous program.
Nothing can make up for a deficient home environment. People don't need a lot of money in order to instill good values in their children; to regularly patronize libraries; to allocate resources towards the things that matter. When the mother's manicures are the absolute latest thing but there isn't one book in the home, states can't remedy the problem.
As an ex-Noo Yawka who worked for several years in a setting where I was exposed to huge numbers of public school students, their teachers and their parents, I can tell you that the majority of teachers are awful and too many parents put their kids last. In my experience, minority children even from very disadvantaged backgrounds start out eager to learn. Their environments and their teachers beat that out of them pretty fast.
Students who manage to excel in poor educational environments often face a grim awakening when they gain admission to good universities. I've seen, myself, how disheartening it is for someone who was always "top of the class" to be shockingly unprepared for college or graduate work in a genuinely rigorous program.
Nothing can make up for a deficient home environment. People don't need a lot of money in order to instill good values in their children; to regularly patronize libraries; to allocate resources towards the things that matter. When the mother's manicures are the absolute latest thing but there isn't one book in the home, states can't remedy the problem.
As an ex-Noo Yawka who worked for several years in a setting where I was exposed to huge numbers of public school students, their teachers and their parents, I can tell you that the majority of teachers are awful and too many parents put their kids last. In my experience, minority children even from very disadvantaged backgrounds start out eager to learn. Their environments and their teachers beat that out of them pretty fast.
11
The National Assessment of Educational Progress mat and reading tests are giving to students nationwide. It not just a test of material covered in textbooks used in Texas schools.
6
Lived in Florida where teaching to the test was the order of the day. Countless newspaper articles each year about the fact that the kids were being hammered with the "teach to the test" form of education as opposed to receiving an actual education. Drive past the school, big letters on the bulletin board -- the dates of the "tests" and then the crowing about which schools got an A ranking. The rankings that depended on the test scores and determined the funding the school got from the state. SO the F schools with the most kids for whom language wasn't their first language or in which the kids were dirt poor -- poor scores equated to less money for additional aides/teaching tools to help those kids become functionally literate. Insane system designed to enrich no one except the test manufacturers.
12
A poor unhealthy kid cannot be educated well no matter how much test taking skills applied. Testing is for the teachers to measure how the children perform. The child needs good food, love and care to have a healthy body and mind. Then they will do better in class. Teachers can test it out.
3
Hope fully this type of analysis becomes more widespread.
I have bad knees, carry too much weight, and run in my sandals with black socks - where is my Olympic Sprint gold medal?
I have bad knees, carry too much weight, and run in my sandals with black socks - where is my Olympic Sprint gold medal?
5
if we were evaluating the performance of your personal trainer, wouldn't we want to consider the fact that you have a priori physical problems?
This article is about the relative performance of the school systems, not the performance of the students. This seems to be lost on a lot of people.
This article is about the relative performance of the school systems, not the performance of the students. This seems to be lost on a lot of people.
This is a good start. The UI group may already have done this, but a good way to analyze these data would be a multiple regression equation with as many of the the demographic factors as could be obtained included. Performance would be judged by how much a state, district or school was above or below the line of predicted outcomes, allowing for a range of random flop. At present, virtually every story I read about test score results either nationally or in my state is pure nonsense. Nice going guys.
3
This is a classic case of playing with numbers and has nothing to do with quality education and acquisition of knowledge. A test only shows how well students do on tests, not what they know.
6
Scratch the surface, and Texas isn't a terribly bad place or a utopia. But, such a mundane reality does not yield a good newspaper article. Stick to our politicians. They are truly strange.
5
Texas! Proudly educating the poor and disadvantaged while simultaneously working overtime to keep them that way. Anti Medicaid, anti Planned Parenthood, anti ACA, anti, anti, anti. Where teachers battle the right on creation science, history books refer to slaves as an imported work force, with "voluntary" prayers in the locker rooms and bible verses on sport booster posters.
17
Massachusetts ranks 14th on poverty and first on test scores. This takes a lot of hard work and dedication on the part of teachers and parents.
Way to go MA!
Way to go MA!
11
Massachusetts students are 67 percent non-Hispanic white. Texas students are 30 percent non-Hispanic white. Hispanics and African American students score we lower than non-Hispanic whites in all states. You can congratulate yourself on being mostly non-Hispanic white.
2
According to the article, MA is first in the nation both for raw and adjusted scores, doing even better than its demographics would predict.
3
I'll start accepting "adjusted" data for state school performance when the states start applying the same "adjustments" to the teachers they are "measuring".
14
Correct. This, effectively, allows the teachers in disadvantaged districts a "handicap". Though as politically incorrect as it may seem, is the reality of the situation.
1
So--they score higher on tests they've been endlessly prepped for that don't reflect actual literature or reading (unless life is reading exerpts)
9
Yeah, but life IS reading excerpts, especially once one has learned how to spell the word .... :)
1
Surprise: Florida and Texas excel in math and reading is a surprise, but could indicate an increase in cheating skills especially when they also include competition and teaching accountability.
1
Poverty matters. We should reduce it with all means at our disposal.
But the culture of home - the parents' attitude toward educational achievement - matters most of all.
Our biggest problem is cultural, not economic.
But the culture of home - the parents' attitude toward educational achievement - matters most of all.
Our biggest problem is cultural, not economic.
11
The Urban Institute has never seen a kooky, right-wing idea it didn't like. The UI "study" fits right well with the vacuous right-wing economic studies that proclaim you can simultaneously have economic growth and austerity.
The next thing you know is we will have a Republican flimflammer as the Speaker of the House and he/she will be touting the inane concept of economic growth and federal revenue expansion through tax cuts for the .01-percenters.
The next thing you know is we will have a Republican flimflammer as the Speaker of the House and he/she will be touting the inane concept of economic growth and federal revenue expansion through tax cuts for the .01-percenters.
8
Really ? From their web site it looks like a liberal think tank--founded by the LBJ administration.
1
Unfortunately the 1%'s are the ones who invent/run all the businesses that keep the other 99% employed, and grwo the economy, and the way you propose to incentivize them is to take more of their money away.
That's smart. You should be in government if you're not in already.
That's smart. You should be in government if you're not in already.
1
"the Urban Institute has adjusted the raw scores for each state to account for student demographics"
Let's cut through the obfuscating euphemisms - they have adjusted the scores for the fact that Hispanic and black students perform poorly in school. States with a lot of black and Hispanic students, such as Florida and Texas, score poorly as a result.
If one believes that all races or ethnic groups magically have exactly the same intellectual endowment despite all their manifest differences in other attributes, as many of the commenters here apparently do, then such an adjustment is an acknowledgement of failure attributable to racism. But if one believes in evolution and particularly the recent genetic evidence for rapid and divergent human evolution over the last 10,000 years, then one would not presume that all demographic groups enter the educational system with exactly the same endowments. In the latter case, the educational system must be judged considering not only its outputs (the test results) but also its inputs (the students it has to educate).
Of course, we all love science - except when it conflicts with our ideology.
Let's cut through the obfuscating euphemisms - they have adjusted the scores for the fact that Hispanic and black students perform poorly in school. States with a lot of black and Hispanic students, such as Florida and Texas, score poorly as a result.
If one believes that all races or ethnic groups magically have exactly the same intellectual endowment despite all their manifest differences in other attributes, as many of the commenters here apparently do, then such an adjustment is an acknowledgement of failure attributable to racism. But if one believes in evolution and particularly the recent genetic evidence for rapid and divergent human evolution over the last 10,000 years, then one would not presume that all demographic groups enter the educational system with exactly the same endowments. In the latter case, the educational system must be judged considering not only its outputs (the test results) but also its inputs (the students it has to educate).
Of course, we all love science - except when it conflicts with our ideology.
4
First time I have ever heard the "Evolutionary" explanation for diverging results on standardized testing - hopefully the last.
5
"If one believes that all races or ethnic groups magically have exactly the same intellectual endowment despite all their manifest differences in other attributes"
It has fairly well been determined that Asian-Americans have an average IQ of 115, white-Americans an average of 100, Hispanic Americans an average of 90 and African-Americans an average IQ of 85. How much of this is genetic and how much is cultural has yet to be determined but the government loving liberal/progressives continue to insist that all ethnic groups are intellectually equal which is obviously not the case.
It has fairly well been determined that Asian-Americans have an average IQ of 115, white-Americans an average of 100, Hispanic Americans an average of 90 and African-Americans an average IQ of 85. How much of this is genetic and how much is cultural has yet to be determined but the government loving liberal/progressives continue to insist that all ethnic groups are intellectually equal which is obviously not the case.
4
I came to this country as a teenager without speaking a word of English. Soon enough, I took an IQ test and scored a grand total of 40. I don't even know what they call that, idiot seems too generous. I am not black or Hispanic, so I am obviously not of the inferior intelligence you and your ilk around here refer to.
I just didn't know what the test was asking. Lack of English was not an issue, since it was all numbers and pictures and symbols. But when they asked A is to B as B is to ? I had no idea what they were trying to get at. I had never seen an IQ test before.
Once I grasped the principle, I scored off the charts, or certainly higher than some of you racially superior fatuous pseudo-intellectuals would have. I also later majored in math and physics.
IQ tests only measure "intelligence" (defined as what is on the test) once you establish a certain base, a skill (i.e. once you know how to crack a "type" of question), i.e. once you are prepared. Otherwise they are useless. I am proof. And this applies to every other subject and intellectual activity.
Therefore the idea that blacks and Hispanics (neither a race) are innately dumber because of their race is incorrect. You can never accurately adjust for a poor learning environment from age 0, lack of stability and support in family life, and a cultural disrespect for using one’s brain.
I just didn't know what the test was asking. Lack of English was not an issue, since it was all numbers and pictures and symbols. But when they asked A is to B as B is to ? I had no idea what they were trying to get at. I had never seen an IQ test before.
Once I grasped the principle, I scored off the charts, or certainly higher than some of you racially superior fatuous pseudo-intellectuals would have. I also later majored in math and physics.
IQ tests only measure "intelligence" (defined as what is on the test) once you establish a certain base, a skill (i.e. once you know how to crack a "type" of question), i.e. once you are prepared. Otherwise they are useless. I am proof. And this applies to every other subject and intellectual activity.
Therefore the idea that blacks and Hispanics (neither a race) are innately dumber because of their race is incorrect. You can never accurately adjust for a poor learning environment from age 0, lack of stability and support in family life, and a cultural disrespect for using one’s brain.
1
Seems like a bad idea to adjust the rankings based on demographics. A better solution is to focus on the root causes of the problem. Smoothing over the numbers hides the problem and just makes everyone feel good. In summary, poorer districts deserve the same quality in education as more affluent areas. Make it happen.
6
Gee, by this logic we should grade everyone on degree-of-difficulty scales. Let's see, there's "Washout the pilot" who can qualify for a license after controlling for walleye vision. Or, "Crash the bridge builder", who qualifies as an engineer after controlling for the neighborhood he grew up in. I can't wait to get an explanation from an associate that their faulty computer code actually works after adjusting for a tough childhood....
Demographics should help understand differences in test scores, but are hardly a rationalization. The whole point of education is to help ALL students achieve proficiency.
Demographics should help understand differences in test scores, but are hardly a rationalization. The whole point of education is to help ALL students achieve proficiency.
37
So it sounds like you are against Affirmative Action in college admissions?
1
I appreciate the use of demographic adjustments to provide greater insight, but I think in this case we're making the mistake of jumping to some very large conclusions without adequately examining the contributing factors. Some hypotheses:
Reading scores of ESL students depend heavily on the quality and maturity of ESL programs, and maturity of ESL programs depends heavily on the size of the population that needs to be served. Not surprisingly, many of the largest gains in the rankings - not only Texas and Florida but also states like New Mexico and Nevada - went to states with the largest populations of non-native English speakers. Kudos to them for doing a good job teaching English to ESL students, but over-performance in that one specialty puts a thumb on the scale for the overall rankings. In the unadjusted figures we know that Texas and Florida are bad at teaching reading, and high ESL proficiency doesn't change the overall picture as much as the study suggests.
Second, we know that schools nationwide are failing poor black students. States like Mississippi and Louisiana get big boosts in the rankings from worst-in-the-nation to merely mediocre, apparently because they produce an average amount of failure for a much larger black underclass. That's cold comfort. We shouldn't be giving a free pass to failing schools just because they're failing by the expected amount.
I suggest doing a factor analysis before blindly accepting the aggregation of demographic adjustments.
Reading scores of ESL students depend heavily on the quality and maturity of ESL programs, and maturity of ESL programs depends heavily on the size of the population that needs to be served. Not surprisingly, many of the largest gains in the rankings - not only Texas and Florida but also states like New Mexico and Nevada - went to states with the largest populations of non-native English speakers. Kudos to them for doing a good job teaching English to ESL students, but over-performance in that one specialty puts a thumb on the scale for the overall rankings. In the unadjusted figures we know that Texas and Florida are bad at teaching reading, and high ESL proficiency doesn't change the overall picture as much as the study suggests.
Second, we know that schools nationwide are failing poor black students. States like Mississippi and Louisiana get big boosts in the rankings from worst-in-the-nation to merely mediocre, apparently because they produce an average amount of failure for a much larger black underclass. That's cold comfort. We shouldn't be giving a free pass to failing schools just because they're failing by the expected amount.
I suggest doing a factor analysis before blindly accepting the aggregation of demographic adjustments.
8
"Adjusted test scores"
Of course, we should blindly trust that those "adjustments" are objective, hold all other factors constant, and retain all important results.
For example, Texas students historically have performed very poorly at mathematical problem solving, perhaps the single most important measure of the quality of mathematics education.
Have Texas students suddenly started learning how to think? If so, why not present any of the data?
Of course, we should blindly trust that those "adjustments" are objective, hold all other factors constant, and retain all important results.
For example, Texas students historically have performed very poorly at mathematical problem solving, perhaps the single most important measure of the quality of mathematics education.
Have Texas students suddenly started learning how to think? If so, why not present any of the data?
3
I live in Florida and think the methods of computing the statics and the testing methods should be computing.
What great news this is for all our Texas teachers. Congratulations to all of them and the great work they are doing. Nothing is more important than a teacher - molding the minds of our future leaders. Keep up the good work.
4
Democrats, liberals and all the unions of teachers will predictably denigrate this report. What would add gas to this study is an account for the dollars spent per student vs. the result in learning accomplishment. And yet the Report's comment: "What is often overlooked is that every state has a mini-Massachusetts and Mississippi contrast within its own borders” is a serious point.
This renders the Report as objective and fair - something the unions simply can't stomach.
This renders the Report as objective and fair - something the unions simply can't stomach.
8
I don't understand, are Mass and NJ not states with stronger public teacher unions?
3
Tom, I know you are from South Carolina and one of the most union-adverse states in the Union (yes, you poor thing, you're a Union member!) but the way you are connecting teacher's unions to this report is ridiculous. While Texas and Florida do not have strong teacher's unions, many other states that have strong teacher's unions are doing quite well. I'd love to see the author of this article break down these results even further, i.e. district by district, private schools versus public schools versus charter schools, unionized versus non-unionized. I imagine, given the scope of improvement he mentions in Florida and Texas, that these improvements would show up most prominently in poorer public-school districts, which you could infer would be the most heavily unionized. I might add, in my state of Indiana, that in testing results in prior years, only a few of the charters were able to show scores closely aligned to the public schools, and several have shut down.
4
I get it,Tom Paine. It's perfectly OK for the ,1% to spend 4millions on lobbyists and buy politicians to promote their goals, but not OK for teachers and other workers to band together to promote decent wages and working conditions.
3
After this report, it won't be long before the charter school crowd declares victory and the corporate press declares the traditional public schools the losers.
1
Two states excel in difficult subjects and they do not pay their teachers anything like the Northeast. Interesting.
4
Texas alway takes a big beating from the Times and its readers, and this won't change a thing.
11
Schools are not underperforming, we just need to use statistics more creatively to reconstruct reality.
18
Science used in climate: Reinforcing reality.
Science used in education: Reconstructing reality.
Science used in education: Reconstructing reality.
1
There seems to be an interesting story here (not discussed) why the "rust-belt" states of Michigan, Ohio and Pennsylvania grossly underperform based on their demographics. What is going on there?
7
What a strange way to evaluate instruction.
For example, if the Houston Independent School District's reading scores were adjusted for demographics just who is left to be counted? The district has a 68% Hispanic population and a population of 20% Americans of African descent, most living in poverty, plus the largest immigrant community of Middle Easterners in the USA. Is it only the few children from the educated middle class who attend public schools (except in those communities where schools are located in expensive housing areas) who are being counted? And are their test scores the result of teaching techniques or home support for math and reading?
For example, if the Houston Independent School District's reading scores were adjusted for demographics just who is left to be counted? The district has a 68% Hispanic population and a population of 20% Americans of African descent, most living in poverty, plus the largest immigrant community of Middle Easterners in the USA. Is it only the few children from the educated middle class who attend public schools (except in those communities where schools are located in expensive housing areas) who are being counted? And are their test scores the result of teaching techniques or home support for math and reading?
3
Statistical adjustments don't drop data from students with more difficult backgrounds, they take those into account when calculating the adjusted score. This is not a subgroup analysis.
DMC said:
"I think the measure of a school system's success is not the accomplishment of the average student, or the heights that an outstanding student can reach. In my view, it is the way the system deals with students that arrive with major disadvantages, be they economic, cultural, or whatever. I live in Europe, and the school districts that have the most challenges get the most resources. When I lived in the US, it was clearly the opposite -- the school districts with privileged residents had the most resources. To me this is immoral."
Bravo and well-said! Whatever happened to the idea that states would pool their resources (in-state) so that schools in rich districts would not get more than schools in poor districts?
"I think the measure of a school system's success is not the accomplishment of the average student, or the heights that an outstanding student can reach. In my view, it is the way the system deals with students that arrive with major disadvantages, be they economic, cultural, or whatever. I live in Europe, and the school districts that have the most challenges get the most resources. When I lived in the US, it was clearly the opposite -- the school districts with privileged residents had the most resources. To me this is immoral."
Bravo and well-said! Whatever happened to the idea that states would pool their resources (in-state) so that schools in rich districts would not get more than schools in poor districts?
5
There are two things we can measure with educational testing - students and schools. Raw scores measure how students are doing while the adjusted scores the author refers to measure how the schools are doing. In the ideal world, schools and teachers should be measured on how much progress each student makes from the beginning to the end of the school year.
Thus a school that brings a student from reading at a first grade level to a third grade level in one year is doing better than a school where a student enters reading at a fourth grade level and leaves reading at a fourth grade level - even though the raw statistics would indicate that the latter student is doing better.
I think this is what the adjusted scores try to measure although it's somewhat crude in using demographic data rather than individual student progress.
Thus a school that brings a student from reading at a first grade level to a third grade level in one year is doing better than a school where a student enters reading at a fourth grade level and leaves reading at a fourth grade level - even though the raw statistics would indicate that the latter student is doing better.
I think this is what the adjusted scores try to measure although it's somewhat crude in using demographic data rather than individual student progress.
3
It sounds like someone has gotten completely lost in the trees. First, the whole idea was to bring all students to a minimum level of expertise, so failure is still failure. Second, anyone can plug a giant adjustment and turn things on their dead. This is just dishonest fudging of the numbers. Anyone with kids in school in Texas know that the kids spend an enormous amount of time studying for the test. It is absolutely gameable - you can learn techniques to give the appearance of understanding and improved writing. Pearson among other companies practically lives off teaching how to "beat" the test. This assessment serves only to distort the larger issues and is fundamentally dishonest.
15
What do you mean "practically," when it comes to Pearson gaming the tests? Pearson makes the tests, sells test prep materials. For a few dollars more, like from the Hedge Funders supporting Edupreneur Eva Moskowitz' Success Academies, Pearson will sell "preferred test prep materials," featuring *actual* questions in use.
1
Ah, normalization. As my husband likes to say, normalized for height, he could be in the NBA.
The net here is that there are cheers for many teachers, who exceed expectations when handed myriad problems to surpass, and jeers to states that have failed to address such ingrained societal problems that even excellent teachers cannot bring children to a reasonable educational standard.
But the upshot is, still, that many of these children are not sufficiently educated to be able to compete for jobs, since employers do not normalize resumes.
The net here is that there are cheers for many teachers, who exceed expectations when handed myriad problems to surpass, and jeers to states that have failed to address such ingrained societal problems that even excellent teachers cannot bring children to a reasonable educational standard.
But the upshot is, still, that many of these children are not sufficiently educated to be able to compete for jobs, since employers do not normalize resumes.
35
The data may say that Republican run States do better educating disadvantage students but until Paul Krugman verifies the methodology , I am taking these news with a grain of salt.
4
Adjusted rankings do not reflect what happens to graduates with below average skills in the job market where employers will not grade their employees on a curve.
23
This is creative accounting at its best.
32
The point of the NAEP is to create a level playing field for the 50 states instead of individual state tests which vary in the degree of difficulty. The raw scores reflect reality, how well students do on the same set of questions. These adjustments sound contrived because in a longitudinal study of 20,000 students by the Department of Education, poverty was noted as the marker for performance, showing poor children start falling behind by the end of first grade. It does a disservice to the students of each state to juggle the raw figures on the NAEP which is the only national comparison that exists. In the future the raw scores should be disseminated as widely as this study.
2
This is complete nonsense. These "adjustments" allow states off the hook for what they have been doing for decades--shortchanging the education quality of poor and otherwise disadvantaged children. The only legitimate comparison is to pair up a state's proficiency rates on its own test with the same state's proficiency rates on NAEP. Those comparisons, for example, show about 50% differences between Texas state tests and US NAEP results.
18
I would partly agree, but it is also true that Florida and Texas have huge immigrant populations (Texas especially) and it is not really fair to blame those states for language issues.
2
The fact is that all states show variances from the NAEP, to their test scores, not just Texas.
Florida and Texas students excelling in math and reading? Nice. However, let us remember that, in due time (like, now?), the content of what they are reading is, or should be, as important. It should be secular, not religious, as dogma has no place in the wonder and freedom of knowledge, a well-rounded education. If you 'must' indoctrinate your children (considered by some as a form of abuse), do it at your own leisure at home. Just remember, students will appreciate the beauty of excellent teaching, which includes the ability to think for yourself, to embrace empirical evidence rather than esoteric theories devoid of reality, and to be free of preconceived ideas about yourself and nature (of which we are part of). Sounds too simple to be true? It does, because life itself is simple; no more but not less either.
6
Perhaps being Bolivian, you do not realize that in the US, we are guaranteed Freedom of Worship, and that millions of US schoolchildren get a very good education at parochial schools (many different religions).
1
I think it's funny that people actually pay extra to have their kids taught silly Sky Fairy myths.
And yet, if you remove any mention of religion from their school instruction, all you've done is indoctrinate them with "your" beliefs that such things are foolish.
1
If Texas and Florida rank that high then they have cheated on the scores in able for more funding. It wouldn't be the first time that has happened.
4
Tony, did you read the article at all?
Texas and Florida don't rank "that high" unless you take into account that they are educating a lot of disadvantaged children: children who start school not speaking English, for instance.
What exactly is your beef here? You think we folks in Texas and Florida must be losers, and if in any way it looks like we're accomplishing anything, it must be because we're cheating?
Texas and Florida don't rank "that high" unless you take into account that they are educating a lot of disadvantaged children: children who start school not speaking English, for instance.
What exactly is your beef here? You think we folks in Texas and Florida must be losers, and if in any way it looks like we're accomplishing anything, it must be because we're cheating?
1
My worldview says people in Texas are stupid, and I'll discount all evidence to the contrary. Very enlightened Tony.
Did it ever cross your mind that Texas schools actually do educate people? And also that they deal with a huge amount of illegal alien kids that bring the entire state's test scores down?
Maybe it's time to give the state a break.
Did it ever cross your mind that Texas schools actually do educate people? And also that they deal with a huge amount of illegal alien kids that bring the entire state's test scores down?
Maybe it's time to give the state a break.
3
You aren't understanding the article. The overall scores are low. What the adjusted scores do is control for a lot of other variables (beside teacher quality) that affect a student/school's score. Once you control for those other variables, it is clear that the teachers in Texas and Florida are doing a good job given the students who come into their classrooms. (Assuming, of course, that teaching to the test is a legitimate goal, which is a different question entirely). Before, we've just been looking at the low raw scores and pretending that it was all the teachers' fault instead of accounting for a myriad of factors that affect kids beyond the teacher.
2
As a test measure, the raw scores need to stand. In NYS in years gone by, kids could opt in to the Regents curriculum testing, they were not forced to take it, but many immigrant kids, like in my district took the test and first generation immigrants whose parents did not speak English as their first language excelled at the Regents, taking high scores, and they were also rewarded by the Regents Scholarship exam. Don't lie to kids, tell them their real scores, tell the parents, tell the teachers and administrators the truth, don't ADJUST the grades, adust the learners.
14
Off the top this acknowledges the obvious; starting the race from laps behind does favor the other runners. We'd appreciate more detail on the criteria used in the study.
Is the state really the significant entity for study? Some states are much more heavily urbanized, which ought to favor the "wide open" states of the northwest.
There's a certain fallacy here, that units such as states - or any other unit, e.g., a city, or a given style of classroom - have some sort of magic procedure to make kiddies healthy, wealthy et al. Nothing in any of these procedures will achieve the most needful: somehow the schools and the population must resonate with each other, as indeed they once did. Resonate and identify; we've changed the schools greatly, but the population's more in the "frankly, my dear..." stage.
Is the state really the significant entity for study? Some states are much more heavily urbanized, which ought to favor the "wide open" states of the northwest.
There's a certain fallacy here, that units such as states - or any other unit, e.g., a city, or a given style of classroom - have some sort of magic procedure to make kiddies healthy, wealthy et al. Nothing in any of these procedures will achieve the most needful: somehow the schools and the population must resonate with each other, as indeed they once did. Resonate and identify; we've changed the schools greatly, but the population's more in the "frankly, my dear..." stage.
This analysis makes a lot of leaps and conclusions that the original one in the link does not.
The original report, for example, says that these numbers are only for comparing a group of students in one state with a similar group in another--not an overall assessment of the education system.
The original report also says there may be significant differences between, say, students who qualify for a free lunch from one state to the next.
Finally, the original doesn't take a whack at kids who happen to come to school prepared, or claim that they go to mediocre schools, which this report seems to go out of its way to do.
The original report, for example, says that these numbers are only for comparing a group of students in one state with a similar group in another--not an overall assessment of the education system.
The original report also says there may be significant differences between, say, students who qualify for a free lunch from one state to the next.
Finally, the original doesn't take a whack at kids who happen to come to school prepared, or claim that they go to mediocre schools, which this report seems to go out of its way to do.
15
Is there a graph available showing the 'adjusted' scores in other states? I do not remember an allowance of this type when I taught?
1
You can tinker with the data all you want...if you believe Texas ranks so high, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. Remember the Bush stats that gave birth to common core?
30
I think the measure of a school system's success is not the accomplishment of the average student, or the heights that an outstanding student can reach. In my view, it is the way the system deals with students that arrive with major disadvantages, be they economic, cultural, or whatever. I live in Europe, and the school districts that have the most challenges get the most resources. When I lived in the US, it was clearly the opposite -- the school districts with privileged residents had the most resources. To me this is immoral.
27
This is not always true. Washington DC spends the most money per child, yet continues to have some of the worst outcomes for students anywhere.
"To me this is immoral." Yes, but totally in sync with how this country has been run since a grade B movie actor convinced credulous Americans that government is bad and greed is good. Even today, this is what a substantial portion of Americans believe, despite solid evidence of the beneficial role government has played since 2009.
The ACA has provided insurance to 16 million previously uninsured Americans; extrapolating from Kaiser Permanente data on premature deaths caused by lack of insurance, this has saved some 16,000 lives (while the refusal of Republican governors to take free federal funds to expand Medicaid will result in the premature deaths of tens of thousands of their constituents), The increase in spending on health care has also slowed significantly since the ACA passed.
The ARRA prevented a Great Depression II (with a net increase of 11 million private-sector jobs since Obama was first inaugurated, and that despite the loss of over 4 million jobs during January-August 2009). And the notion that Republicans had anything to do with that (other than causing the crisis in the first place through fecklessness, lack of oversight, and general stupidity) is given the lie by the CBO reports, which estimated that the Republican panacea for the worst financial crisis in 80 years, namely tax cuts, was the least effective job creator in ARRA.
So enjoy Europe; it's not the Old World; it's what we used to call civilization ... when people understood what that meant.
The ACA has provided insurance to 16 million previously uninsured Americans; extrapolating from Kaiser Permanente data on premature deaths caused by lack of insurance, this has saved some 16,000 lives (while the refusal of Republican governors to take free federal funds to expand Medicaid will result in the premature deaths of tens of thousands of their constituents), The increase in spending on health care has also slowed significantly since the ACA passed.
The ARRA prevented a Great Depression II (with a net increase of 11 million private-sector jobs since Obama was first inaugurated, and that despite the loss of over 4 million jobs during January-August 2009). And the notion that Republicans had anything to do with that (other than causing the crisis in the first place through fecklessness, lack of oversight, and general stupidity) is given the lie by the CBO reports, which estimated that the Republican panacea for the worst financial crisis in 80 years, namely tax cuts, was the least effective job creator in ARRA.
So enjoy Europe; it's not the Old World; it's what we used to call civilization ... when people understood what that meant.
1
This, in a nutshell, is what plagues education in America. This arcane parsing of scores and demographics seems like a sophisticated analysis, but it is completely missing the forest by way of obsessing over a tree or two.
Of course kids get slightly higher scores on exams when curricula and time are devoted to those things that will result in higher scores on the exams. This frenetic self-fulfilling prophecy has almost nothing to do with actual learning. For example, if the purpose of education was to deliver short term recall of maximum number of vocabulary words, anyone could develop a curriculum to achieve that result. For some period of time thereafter, kids would know more words, and little else.
So that's what is happening. No critical capacity. No joy. Deadened curiosity. No or few arts programs. No thrill of discovery. No development of analytical skills. No originality. No imagination. No beauty.
The whole system of testing, accountability and this idiotic focus on metrics has broken the heart of education and the hearts of children.
It is a national shame.
Of course kids get slightly higher scores on exams when curricula and time are devoted to those things that will result in higher scores on the exams. This frenetic self-fulfilling prophecy has almost nothing to do with actual learning. For example, if the purpose of education was to deliver short term recall of maximum number of vocabulary words, anyone could develop a curriculum to achieve that result. For some period of time thereafter, kids would know more words, and little else.
So that's what is happening. No critical capacity. No joy. Deadened curiosity. No or few arts programs. No thrill of discovery. No development of analytical skills. No originality. No imagination. No beauty.
The whole system of testing, accountability and this idiotic focus on metrics has broken the heart of education and the hearts of children.
It is a national shame.
53
I notice you live in New York, not Texas. Have you ever been to a school in Texas. Many put New York schools to shame. I note you write well, and are able to pick up talking points too. Since you are probably middle or upper middle class, you might want to ask low income parents what they actually want. Overwhelmingly the research shows that they want to make sure their kids learn the basics of literacy and math. These schools are succeeding for these kids and its something we should be happy about.
Sorry but grading on a curve won't cut it for me. Yes, context matters, and of COURSE not everyone arrives at school with the same benefits. Those differences are undoubtedly correlated with socioeconomic. But until we focus on the root causes of those differences then this is all just so much noise.
5
Looks like this data indicates poverty matters to me, and by the way America doesn't want to do anything about poverty.
6
"...not all students arrive at school equally prepared, and states should not be judged as if students did."
Why not? Why should they not be expected to bring the disadvantaged students up to par with the rest no matter how far behind they may start? This seems like an excuse.
Why not? Why should they not be expected to bring the disadvantaged students up to par with the rest no matter how far behind they may start? This seems like an excuse.
4
See @abo's post below. A state should be responsible for helping this situation, not just continuing to make it a teacher's job.
1
Does lack of union control of the schools in Florida and Texas have anything to do with it? Seems a 'right to work' model works well in improving education. .
3
Many years ago Thomas Sowell (yes, black conservative who most NYT readers call an Uncle Tom or worse) wrote an essay entailed "Ethnic America " in which he point out the real attitude of various ethnic groups toward education among other things .. guess what some folk/ groups s don't value education while others do e.g Asian kids could fill the entire freshman class at Berkley ( Don't tell me a lot Asian kids are not poor)
6
Adjusting the scores for poverty, in particular, sounds dicey to me - like adjusting lung cancer rates for #s of smokers. Poverty and failure of educational achievement go hand in hand. The raw rates are the actual index of the societal problem we have to (ought to) fix.
9
"like adjusting lung cancer rates for #s of smokers"
But that is exactly what you would do if you were trying to see if there are other factors causing lung cancer.
But that is exactly what you would do if you were trying to see if there are other factors causing lung cancer.
2
Are you arguing that a multi-cultural population should reduce their standards?
COMMON: Standards we share as a nation. CORE: Basic knowledge we ALL need to remain competitive individually and as a nation.
Please stop making excuses for sub-standard score. It is soft prejudice and there are grave consequences to this line of thinking.
COMMON: Standards we share as a nation. CORE: Basic knowledge we ALL need to remain competitive individually and as a nation.
Please stop making excuses for sub-standard score. It is soft prejudice and there are grave consequences to this line of thinking.
23
I think what the article is arguing for is having reasonable expectations. If you think that understanding that a migrant, non-English-speaking child is not going to score the same as a kid in an English-speaking home, who has been in the same school system with the same curriculum, since kindergarten, is "making excuses", then you are not being reasonable.
4
I have to love this article because it admits that the NYTimes position on education is wrong. By touting the "demographic" adjustment of the Urban Institute this national institution, the NYTimes, is admitting and even promoting the idea that educational performance on standardized tests is a function of poverty, not teaching, not standards, and not labor laws. If the NYTimes were to do the same thing when reporting on PISA results, you would see the same results. The USA, with its high poverty rates, performs poorly compared to the rest of the civilized world. Adjust those PISA scores for poverty rates and you see a whole different picture.
14
Interestingly, the American ethnic kids' PISA results track very closely the PISA results for their peers in their parents' countries.
Korean-American kids' PISA scores are almost identical to Korean kids' PISA scores.
Hispanic American kids' PISA scores are almost identical to Mexican kids' PISA scores.
The culture of the home is the factor with the greatest influence over children's educational achievement.
Korean-American kids' PISA scores are almost identical to Korean kids' PISA scores.
Hispanic American kids' PISA scores are almost identical to Mexican kids' PISA scores.
The culture of the home is the factor with the greatest influence over children's educational achievement.
3
Who you're teaching matters. And that is a surprise??!!
In 2012 U.S. News and World Report rated the top 100 high schools nationwide. Eleven New York City public high schools, taught by public school teachers, were in the top 100! Link below:
http://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools
In 2012 U.S. News and World Report rated the top 100 high schools nationwide. Eleven New York City public high schools, taught by public school teachers, were in the top 100! Link below:
http://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools
5
Mr. David is making excuses for mediocrity. Florida and Texas stand where they stand and if these states have a disproportionate amount of "disadvantaged children" exactly whose fault is that anyway? Can you spell "rejecting free medicaid and federal aid in educating students in the name of states rights"?
74
The "fault" lies with our immigration system. Texas has lots of disadvantaged children because lax immigration enforcement means you have many Mexican immigrants often from rural areas with no culture of education or academic achievement. The parents don't speak English and don't have high educated dialogue in Spanish. The stresses of poverty just make it worse. What the article is saying is that for any given student background, Texas does a relatively good job. Harvard students don't do well because Harvard teachers are good. They do well because Harvard chose the successful ones at the beginning.
Maybe it's more like "Federal Government won't control the border". We should get an elementary education subsidy from Mexico.
They have a disproportionate amount of disadvantage because they are states with a lot of immigration and the immigrants are partly attracted to them because of job opportunities and a low cost of living. is it houston's fault that refugees from central american war torn countries seek to live there because of its diversity, proximity, and jobs? imagine if mass or washington had to educate that many students whose parents may or may not live with them, who don't know english, who grew up in a war zone
More finely tuned looks at student demographics are interesting, but I worry that studies such as this only muddy the waters further. While there are a lot of factors included in this analysis, I don't think they are enough to get a clear picture in some places.
In Minnesota we have large achievement gaps (and this study shows poorer results when controlled for demographics), but we also have a fairly unique demographic situation. The population of non-white children from refugee families is probably the highest in the country. Studies such as this don't account for refugee status or parental education level.
My child attends Saint Paul Public Schools where the largest demographic group is Hmong. We also have really large populations of Somali and Karen refugee families. Refugees just don't have the same educational background as typical immigrants to the U.S. These families are often two-parent households, but there's a huge difference between being the child of college-educated Nigerian immigrants and being the child of poor Somali refugees who have arrived with little education from a refugee camp.
My guess is that what works for African American children whose families have lived in a state for generations is going to be VERY different from what works for the children of African refugees. If we don't know how those demographic specifics affect learning, we'll never get the right programs in place. Studies like this don't help that effort.
In Minnesota we have large achievement gaps (and this study shows poorer results when controlled for demographics), but we also have a fairly unique demographic situation. The population of non-white children from refugee families is probably the highest in the country. Studies such as this don't account for refugee status or parental education level.
My child attends Saint Paul Public Schools where the largest demographic group is Hmong. We also have really large populations of Somali and Karen refugee families. Refugees just don't have the same educational background as typical immigrants to the U.S. These families are often two-parent households, but there's a huge difference between being the child of college-educated Nigerian immigrants and being the child of poor Somali refugees who have arrived with little education from a refugee camp.
My guess is that what works for African American children whose families have lived in a state for generations is going to be VERY different from what works for the children of African refugees. If we don't know how those demographic specifics affect learning, we'll never get the right programs in place. Studies like this don't help that effort.
9
Math scores in K-8 grades are an indicator of how well children can learn rote quantitative skills like addition, division, subtraction & multiplication. Math is not too challenging at these early grades for most kids who come from homes in which parents help them with their homework, spend time practicing rote memorization of multiplication or spend time counting for fun & way to spin time on long car rides.
Math becomes suddenly intensely difficult in high school when kids are tracked into either advanced honors classes like Algebra, Geometry, Calculus, Trigonometry, Differential Equations, Cryptography, Wavelets & Signal Processing, Numerical Analysis, Abstract Algebra, Probability & Statistics, Metric Differential Geometry, Set Theory, Quantum Mechanics, etc. These math courses demand a high level of abstract thinking & creativeness. Therefore, the high test scores in math in Texas & Florida are more indicative of parental involvement than a penchant towards mathematical genius. It helps if ones parents are Engineers, Architects, Astronomers, Astrophysicists, Information Technology professionals or Actuaries. Thus, the children have the benefit of a predisposition for mathematical problem solving passed through their genetics, environment influences on witnessing their parents or community value mathematical thinking & the positive reinforcement of cultural influences that contribute to their high performance in the field of mathematics.
Math becomes suddenly intensely difficult in high school when kids are tracked into either advanced honors classes like Algebra, Geometry, Calculus, Trigonometry, Differential Equations, Cryptography, Wavelets & Signal Processing, Numerical Analysis, Abstract Algebra, Probability & Statistics, Metric Differential Geometry, Set Theory, Quantum Mechanics, etc. These math courses demand a high level of abstract thinking & creativeness. Therefore, the high test scores in math in Texas & Florida are more indicative of parental involvement than a penchant towards mathematical genius. It helps if ones parents are Engineers, Architects, Astronomers, Astrophysicists, Information Technology professionals or Actuaries. Thus, the children have the benefit of a predisposition for mathematical problem solving passed through their genetics, environment influences on witnessing their parents or community value mathematical thinking & the positive reinforcement of cultural influences that contribute to their high performance in the field of mathematics.
10
The study doesn't claim to identify mathematical genius. It claims to identify states that are doing well teaching the students they have. Having taught math in some challenging schools in the U.S., that's quite an accomplishment.
I'm not sure which high school curricula you've been looking at, but in U.S. math classes we do not teach advanced probability and statistics, quantum mechanics, differential equations, or differential geometry except in AP courses, maybe. I took most of them for the first time in university getting my math degree. Math talent is NOT passed through the genes, it is earned by hard work. And if parental involvement is responsible for some of the high early scores, well good for the parents for supporting their students and getting them off to a strong start. Students need a strong grounding in the basics to then employ creativity in advanced mathematics; numeracy in primary grades is vital to math success. Because of their strong start in primary school, be it from school or parental influence, these primary-aged students will be able to take those AP courses and make us all proud.
I'm not sure which high school curricula you've been looking at, but in U.S. math classes we do not teach advanced probability and statistics, quantum mechanics, differential equations, or differential geometry except in AP courses, maybe. I took most of them for the first time in university getting my math degree. Math talent is NOT passed through the genes, it is earned by hard work. And if parental involvement is responsible for some of the high early scores, well good for the parents for supporting their students and getting them off to a strong start. Students need a strong grounding in the basics to then employ creativity in advanced mathematics; numeracy in primary grades is vital to math success. Because of their strong start in primary school, be it from school or parental influence, these primary-aged students will be able to take those AP courses and make us all proud.
2
"The central idea behind the adjustments is that not all students arrive at school equally prepared, and states should not be judged as if students did."
*Schools* should not be judged as if students did, but *states* can be. Texas does about as little as it can to help people in poverty. Whose fault is that? The tooth fairy?
*Schools* should not be judged as if students did, but *states* can be. Texas does about as little as it can to help people in poverty. Whose fault is that? The tooth fairy?
113
Most people don't realize that the Official Poverty Measure is not adjusted for a state's cost of living. Nor does it take into account the value of all benefits, such as food and rent assistance.
According to the U.S. Census Bureau, Texas' Supplemental Poverty Measure (which takes into account cost of living for housing as well as non-cash government benefits) is at the national average for poverty -- which is even more interesting when considering that Texas is one of only four minority-majority states. California, one of the other four, has the nation's highest Supplemental Poverty Measure rate with proportionately 42 percent more people in poverty per capita than in Texas.
According to the U.S. Census Bureau, Texas' Supplemental Poverty Measure (which takes into account cost of living for housing as well as non-cash government benefits) is at the national average for poverty -- which is even more interesting when considering that Texas is one of only four minority-majority states. California, one of the other four, has the nation's highest Supplemental Poverty Measure rate with proportionately 42 percent more people in poverty per capita than in Texas.
7
abo,
Since you are from Paris, you are forgiven for not realizing that illegal immigration from Mexico is the root cause of the burden for Texas. Send those illegals elsewhere, and the problem moves with them.
Since you are from Paris, you are forgiven for not realizing that illegal immigration from Mexico is the root cause of the burden for Texas. Send those illegals elsewhere, and the problem moves with them.
1
We have the same safety net as all the other states. Health care, dental care, welfare, rent help and food stamps. We do no less than other states. I get that you're in Europe and may not realized this, but neXt time try some google.
I would certainly agree that any kid who grows up in Texas or Florida is pretty "disadvantaged" (especially white middle class kids who grew thinking that shooting a gun is the best way to solve any problem).
But the fact is that it is impossible to educate all Americans to one standard because we don't agree on how to educate, or test, children.
And it is a pipe dream to think that such tests will ever tell much of the story...other than predicting who the winners and losers will be after a student leaves the educational system.
But the fact is that it is impossible to educate all Americans to one standard because we don't agree on how to educate, or test, children.
And it is a pipe dream to think that such tests will ever tell much of the story...other than predicting who the winners and losers will be after a student leaves the educational system.
2
Your home state of New Mexico has a gun death rate of 15.5 and ranks as the ninth most dangerous state in the United States. Texas doesn’t even make the 20 most dangerous states list.
http://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/death-by-gun-top-20-states-with-highest-...
http://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/death-by-gun-top-20-states-with-highest-...
5
There's lots of kids who grow up thinking that shooting a gun is the best way to solve any problem, but contrary to your bigoted thinking, they're not normally white and middle class. Typically they don't finish high school either. And a lot of them get shot.
Any guesses?
Any guesses?
5
What if anything do these tests correlate to that indicate real success? Do states like Texas (adjusted high) or Pennsylvania (raw data high) get more students into college or careers than a state like California?
What matters with education is are we preparing our students to be productive adults and valuable contributors to our democracy. Do these tests measure that?
What matters with education is are we preparing our students to be productive adults and valuable contributors to our democracy. Do these tests measure that?
20
Apparently it is all about what we measure. If being at grade level is what we measure, then of course disadvantaged students get more out of education because they get more attention. And of course grade level is adapted in each state to meet the goal.
Therefore, common core is key. It measures (a bit) better student progress and it is the same in all states. I look forward to the Urban Institute releasing a similar report in a few years, when the results of common core are in.
Therefore, common core is key. It measures (a bit) better student progress and it is the same in all states. I look forward to the Urban Institute releasing a similar report in a few years, when the results of common core are in.
8
So the students in Texas and Florida are more disadvantaged and unprepared than most states' children, but somehow that means they are doing a better job educating them, even though there test scores don't show it? Subjective gobbledegook.
60
Let me simplify it for you David:
Suppose we select from the lower performing illegal immigrant population in Texas and ship them to Portland until the percentage in Portland matches that of Texas. Now keep doing this every year so that the percentages continue to match. How will your schools in Portland do?
Suppose we select from the lower performing illegal immigrant population in Texas and ship them to Portland until the percentage in Portland matches that of Texas. Now keep doing this every year so that the percentages continue to match. How will your schools in Portland do?
4
Could we please see the stats disaggregated by ethnicity?
The California Department of Education does this, and makes the scores for every school, every grade, available on their website.
The pattern is obvious: California's schools do not have a problem with funding, or teachers, or curriculum. They are struggling with a majority demographic, primarily families from Mexico, that could not care less about educational achievement.
No amount of money or curriculum improvement can overcome this problem whose root cause is the cynicism of our political class and their foolish open-borders policies.
The California Department of Education does this, and makes the scores for every school, every grade, available on their website.
The pattern is obvious: California's schools do not have a problem with funding, or teachers, or curriculum. They are struggling with a majority demographic, primarily families from Mexico, that could not care less about educational achievement.
No amount of money or curriculum improvement can overcome this problem whose root cause is the cynicism of our political class and their foolish open-borders policies.
44
I looked at the database and, because I have a real job and can't spend all day on this stuff, I picked 7th grade math scores as a measure (English arts didn't seem a fair test for a hispanic population). For that single measure, the difference between economically/not economically disadvantaged is larger than the difference between white and hispanic, and the black ethnic group does worse than the Hispanic ethnic group.
1
@WJF: you're not looking carefully, or else you just don't know how to interpret data.
The ethnicity gaps - ie between ethnic groups in the same economic cohort - are of a greater or similar magnitude as the income-based gap. The gap between "non-disadvantaged" Hispanic/Latino kids and non-disadvantaged white kids is twice as large as that between "economically disadvantaged" H/L. and economically disadvantaged white kids.
The gap between non-disadvantaged Hispanic/Latino kids and non-disadvantaged Asian kids is slightly larger than the gap between economically disadvantaged H/L. and economically disadvantaged Asian kids.
As every California parent, teacher, real estate agent and admissions officer knows, ethnicity is a better predictor of California educational achievement than income.
This is why the state's education officials focus on ethnicity, not economic status, in their massive and all-consuming effort to "close the gap." There is a deep, cultural problem at work here that, while not unique to one ethnicity, is nonetheless so pronounced that it's not helpful to ignore it.
The ethnicity gaps - ie between ethnic groups in the same economic cohort - are of a greater or similar magnitude as the income-based gap. The gap between "non-disadvantaged" Hispanic/Latino kids and non-disadvantaged white kids is twice as large as that between "economically disadvantaged" H/L. and economically disadvantaged white kids.
The gap between non-disadvantaged Hispanic/Latino kids and non-disadvantaged Asian kids is slightly larger than the gap between economically disadvantaged H/L. and economically disadvantaged Asian kids.
As every California parent, teacher, real estate agent and admissions officer knows, ethnicity is a better predictor of California educational achievement than income.
This is why the state's education officials focus on ethnicity, not economic status, in their massive and all-consuming effort to "close the gap." There is a deep, cultural problem at work here that, while not unique to one ethnicity, is nonetheless so pronounced that it's not helpful to ignore it.
4
The idea behind uniform standards is that no matter what the child's background, race or socioeconomic status, the student, school system and the parents should be held to the same standard. The Urban Institute takes this noble idea and does an end run on it by making all sorts of adjustments. This is the reason the old system was not working. Each school had its own standard and then the standard was further adjusted to each student. The end result was that we were graduating students who could not read or write and the High School Diploma had lost all meaning.
12
Unfortunately, as with the ill-named "No Child Left Behind" laws, trying to equalize education in 50 differing states, and countless different cultures, ethnic groups, economic groups -- results in huge masses of poor children being very directly "left behind" -- flunking out or held back a grade.
And that isn't even considering the absolute intransigency of the public Teacher's unions and their archaic rules.
And that isn't even considering the absolute intransigency of the public Teacher's unions and their archaic rules.
1
The point of the law is that it should tell the state or school district that more resources, better teachers or more parental involvement is needed if a school or student is lagging behind. If you are going to do all this testing and then not act on the results, by saying that background differences explain the results, the whole exercise is pointless.
1
Ouch! Behind Mississippi and just ahead of Alabama. That hurts.
Having 32 kids in a classroom and about $9,000 a year spent on each of them does not help.
We have a growing population of children from families who do not seem to value education. How do we turn that around? I have seen desperately poor children from immigrant families who do incredibly well in school. Primarily, those are children from Asia and the Middle-East.
Our Hispanic immigrants are usually hard working, loving people who often don't see education as a way to move up in the world. They care about their kids; but they don't seem to have that drive for education. Learning a new language in school is taxing and yet students do it every day, and succeed in all areas while doing it.
Smaller class sizes and more support for English Language Learners would help.
Nothing, just nothing beats families who are focused on their child's education. How do we convince people that is a worthwhile goal? And discrimination is not a major problem. Asians were hugely discriminated against in CA since we became a state. They valued education anyway. Today they have top university admissions, top earnings and top advanced degrees.
Having 32 kids in a classroom and about $9,000 a year spent on each of them does not help.
We have a growing population of children from families who do not seem to value education. How do we turn that around? I have seen desperately poor children from immigrant families who do incredibly well in school. Primarily, those are children from Asia and the Middle-East.
Our Hispanic immigrants are usually hard working, loving people who often don't see education as a way to move up in the world. They care about their kids; but they don't seem to have that drive for education. Learning a new language in school is taxing and yet students do it every day, and succeed in all areas while doing it.
Smaller class sizes and more support for English Language Learners would help.
Nothing, just nothing beats families who are focused on their child's education. How do we convince people that is a worthwhile goal? And discrimination is not a major problem. Asians were hugely discriminated against in CA since we became a state. They valued education anyway. Today they have top university admissions, top earnings and top advanced degrees.
78
I ,wonder how Texas's treatment of slavery in history books (see recent NYTimes op ed) and the learning that goes along with it, would fit into the scoring rules.
8
Not at all.
2
I'd count how many Mexican, Guatemalans' bring down the scores? I am always puzzled by my legal Mexican cleaners who do not see the value of more education. The ARE making $20 an hour each and work in teams so maybe money is not a motivator. The father says "We are happy." They have the happy gene and we gringos are cursed with the I have to do it better gene??
6
Yes. I am sure all GOP dominated states are reading about the percentage change in global average temperature.
10
If Florida and Texas are doing such a great job in educating children who started their education at a disadvantage due to poverty and other socioeconomic factors, then over the course of time these student should approach the level of other, less disadvantaged, students. This does not appear to have occurred so I would guess that the entire hypothesis is not true. This methodology is similar to the statistical approach of the value added method mistakenly used to evaluate teachesr and is equally bogus.
38
The major assumption in your analysis is that the student population stays constant. However, this is untrue because of continuing illegal immigration. While the existing students continue to improve, new students bring down the mean.
2
Obliterates the myth that teacher's unions equate to good performance. Thank you for this insightful article.
13
If the charter school movement's emphasis on viewing teachers as cheap disposable tools of labor is the new model for the American workforce, expect to see more people sent to the glue factory at the ripe old age of 35 or so, since by then these underpaid teachers will be bored to death of teaching to the test & realize how exploited they were by billionaire charter school enthusiasts.
16
The charter schools here in New York City seem to be doing something right as they significantly outperform traditional union teacher public schools and give poor and minority students a chance at success. Charters treat teachers like adults (union rules infantatilize teachers) and make them partners in t e education of their students. Unlike the teachers unions, charters and their teachers put he interests of their students education first - and hence the success and overwhelming demand for more charters in New York City.
4
So if I understand the gist, Texas, Mississippi, Florida etc still have an unacceptably high number of failures, but it's okay because they have a lot of poor immigrants. Ummm, no.
116
Actually, the data in the article show that the TX raw (unadjusted) score is #3 among the 10 largest states and CA is #10. Think of it this way...for Hispanics in the US, TX is #1 (unadjusted) in education for that group (among the 10 largest states).
I think it's more that minorities do better than they would in another place, like say, Minnesota, where the raw scores are high, but minorities do very badly. Not using the state as a fact, just a hypothetical. That was my takeaway.
2
They are not saying it is 'ok'. What they are saying is that all things being equal, you may be getting as good if not better of an education in a Texas or a Florida then states that don't have as many ELL students or other disadvantaged. There are great school districts in Texas, but the challenge for the state is there are a lot of districts on the border or in the big cities that have a lot of recent immigrants or children of immigrants and those bring the scores down. California has similar demographics in some areas and much better demographics in others, yet performs worse than you would expect.
It is much more difficult to teach in fast growing states with transient populations in the sunbelt than states with relatively stable, affluent populations in the northeast.
I think when the liberals on here say that Texas and Florida have poor education and inequality, they really need to be careful that they don't throw stones. California has much more inequality and poverty when adjusted for cost of living. Sure, wages may be higher, but housing costs and all taxes but property taxes are astronomically higher in California.
It is much more difficult to teach in fast growing states with transient populations in the sunbelt than states with relatively stable, affluent populations in the northeast.
I think when the liberals on here say that Texas and Florida have poor education and inequality, they really need to be careful that they don't throw stones. California has much more inequality and poverty when adjusted for cost of living. Sure, wages may be higher, but housing costs and all taxes but property taxes are astronomically higher in California.
5
The Massachusetts model works. I wish more states followed it. My kids go to a very high performing school where 42% of the kids live in poverty.
It can be done!
It can be done!
96
Not according to numerous articles in the Washington Post or NPR that claim children in poverty can only learn better by being bused to affluence schools.
3
MA is a small, wealthy state that is largely white and which has almost no illegal immigration. It also has outrageously high taxes that most other states would not tolerate.
5
You mean those families have only two-car garages?
2
Wait until the Texas state school board gets wind of this. That will put a quick end to it.
5
Another way to interpret this data is that, regardless of how well (or poorly) a state educates their children, socioeconomic status plays a larger role in academic success. Maybe we should be focusing more research on what components of socioeconomic status play the biggest role in academic success and which of those components can easily be modified? This way we can put tax money towards things that can improve a child's chance at success.
115
Not true in California. Here, the variable with the highest correlation to academic achievement is not income but ethnicity.
Here's the data for 2013, state-wide, for that now-majority ethnic group in California schools whose severe underperformance - 60-80% below proficient - has caused the state's overall school results to fall below those of Mississippi:
http://star.cde.ca.gov/star2013/ViewReport.aspx?ps=true&lstTestYear=...
Here's the data for 2013, state-wide, for that now-majority ethnic group in California schools whose severe underperformance - 60-80% below proficient - has caused the state's overall school results to fall below those of Mississippi:
http://star.cde.ca.gov/star2013/ViewReport.aspx?ps=true&lstTestYear=...
7
T-bone. Thanks for the link. That is pretty worrisome data.
4
If you look at the high-stakes SAT / ACT scores, however, California whites seem to do slightly better than Texas whites, as do California blacks over Texas blacks. On the other hand, Texas Hispanics seem to do about as well as California Hispanics or maybe even a little better.
For the numbers, see:
http://www.unz.com/isteve/are-texans-really-smarter-than-californians/