As they say in Afghanistan; the round eyes have the watches but the Taliban have the time.
Even the training and advising mission has NO prospect for success, whether we stay with a very large presence or for 100 years. Pull the plug Mr. President, and cut our losses.
Turn the mission ONLY to contain the bleeding out of the country's current and future Taliban or Al Qaeda threats.
Turn the mission ONLY to contain the bleeding out of the country's current and future Taliban or Al Qaeda threats.
It's time to leave Afghanistan. We we went in, we tried to make it better, it got a little bit better, but it being better cannot be contingent upon our continuous military occupation of the country. It's time to go home and say we did what we could and let chips fall where they may.
Afghanistan is quicksand, as is the rest of the Middle east if one is realistic. Until the locals decide who gets to live, we don't belong there.
Obama or the next President have only two reason for leaving troops in Afghanistan:
1. To avoid the responsibility of making the hard decision and accepting the loss. Put it on someone else. Just put it off. That kills people, because a politician won't do the job he asked for.
2. To appease the die-hards here who want to fight a forever war. They're wrong, they're rejected by most Americans, and Obama promised not to do that, but he'd rather not face them down.
1. To avoid the responsibility of making the hard decision and accepting the loss. Put it on someone else. Just put it off. That kills people, because a politician won't do the job he asked for.
2. To appease the die-hards here who want to fight a forever war. They're wrong, they're rejected by most Americans, and Obama promised not to do that, but he'd rather not face them down.
It is way past time to get our soldiers back home. Afghanistan will never be pacified by US. Alaxender failed; the British had to cut a sorry figure there and USSR broke asunder because of its involvement there. In the case of Brits Afghans annihilated their army of 10,000 soldiers and let just one doctor go to tell the Queen . US has already sacrificed Billions and Billions of dollars and thousands of soldiers. What makes the Pentagon and the top brass think that they can subjugate a very ferocious,proud,martial race of fanatics ? The writing is clear on the wall. Don't waste one more drop of blood or a single dollar in that "graveyard of empires"; just come back.
5
We should minimize our troop footprint in Afghanistan. Pare the whole thing down to whatever we need for our drone programs there, and for the black-ops assassins we have in the area. As for regular ground troops, bring as many of them home as possible. They are only targets for the mujahadeen and the other Muslim extremists there now, such as the Islamic State.
There is no fixing Afghanistan. The majority of the Pastuns don't want our help fixing it because they don't want infidels in their land, and they especially hate Americans.
Compare a "collapsed" Afghanistan to Afghanistan in its supposedly "uncollapsed" state. What is the difference? Not much. It is one of the poorest, harshest, most backward places on Earth. And you know what? Many of its residents like that way. It is a failed narco-state run by regional warlords. The central government in Kabul is a fictional siphon for Western bribe money, a propaganda set we created to convince U.S. taxpayers to keep sending billions and billions of dollars over there. We need to stop our lies about Afghanistan. The place is not very different now than it was before we invaded it in 2001.
5
"Compare a "collapsed" Afghanistan to Afghanistan in its supposedly "uncollapsed" state. What is the difference?"
A lot of dead bodies, and areas abandoned, millions of refugees.
A lot of dead bodies, and areas abandoned, millions of refugees.
Mr. Obama's milquetoast approach to everything has brought us into a world of half-hearted attempts to avoid dealing with any of our problems directly and responsibly. Far from being the great gutsy guy who single-handedly did away with Osama he has proven to be a well-intentioned but ineffective Walter Mitty who has been manipulated by a White House staff to suit their ideologies. He has been a disaster for the country as he made speeches but failed to stop the Bush/Cheney policies and practices that have brought us to our current failing war with ISIS. It looks as if Russia has rescued us from sinking in the Syrian mess, although we still seem to be trying to be all things to all parties as we can't even cooperate constructively with the Russians in defeating ISIS.
1
I loathe the idea of keeping a counter-terrorism task force there indefinitely without some realistic long term effort to eliminate the underlying causes of the insurgency.
Keep this contradiction in mind: the mere presence of such a task force fuels the very terrorism it's fighting. This is no small problem. Afghan society is clan and tribal-based suffused with a militant anti-western Saudi Wahhabi religious presence that aims to create Jihadists. Saudi Sunni Wahhabism is one root of the rebellion.
Another is the long history of internecine warfare between tribes and clans. Afghanistan is no "melting pot". Belief that a neighboring tribe or clan is the enemy is ingrained in local culture. Any Western, non-Muslim, non-Afghan influence is rejected almost like a human body rejects an organ transplant. And because Pakistan meddles in Afghan politics for its own strategic reasons, providing arms and money to the insurgency, pacification might remain well beyond reach indefinitely.
Even so, if a decades-long effort to build a viable Afghan nation is deemed necessary -- what's actually being proposed, nothing less -- the fiscal, administrative and garrison burden must be shared world-wide for the common good. And Wahhabi mullahs, Jihadi groups, the House of Saud, tribes, clans and Pakistan must be made to understand that their insurgency makes Afghanistan just another war front in a Third World War against Salafi Jihadism.
Otherwise, the President's skepticism is justified.
Keep this contradiction in mind: the mere presence of such a task force fuels the very terrorism it's fighting. This is no small problem. Afghan society is clan and tribal-based suffused with a militant anti-western Saudi Wahhabi religious presence that aims to create Jihadists. Saudi Sunni Wahhabism is one root of the rebellion.
Another is the long history of internecine warfare between tribes and clans. Afghanistan is no "melting pot". Belief that a neighboring tribe or clan is the enemy is ingrained in local culture. Any Western, non-Muslim, non-Afghan influence is rejected almost like a human body rejects an organ transplant. And because Pakistan meddles in Afghan politics for its own strategic reasons, providing arms and money to the insurgency, pacification might remain well beyond reach indefinitely.
Even so, if a decades-long effort to build a viable Afghan nation is deemed necessary -- what's actually being proposed, nothing less -- the fiscal, administrative and garrison burden must be shared world-wide for the common good. And Wahhabi mullahs, Jihadi groups, the House of Saud, tribes, clans and Pakistan must be made to understand that their insurgency makes Afghanistan just another war front in a Third World War against Salafi Jihadism.
Otherwise, the President's skepticism is justified.
7
“You like Syria?” [mr. dobbins] said. “How would you like to have another one?”
like former syria, afghanistan is made up of several antagonistic tribal and ethnic groups. one has to wonder that if it takes a foreign military to prevent civil war and genocide, is it worthwhile to maintain rule as a single state. maybe the pashtuns should have their own regional rule and tax base. after 14 years, certainly the US should be thinking about alternatives.
furthermore, the US needs to be careful about supporting less than savory "leaders" and military personnel. most democratic? i highly doubt it. i would prefer to live in malaysia and maybe even indonesia, although i would have to think carefully about choosing between afghanistan and yemen.
like former syria, afghanistan is made up of several antagonistic tribal and ethnic groups. one has to wonder that if it takes a foreign military to prevent civil war and genocide, is it worthwhile to maintain rule as a single state. maybe the pashtuns should have their own regional rule and tax base. after 14 years, certainly the US should be thinking about alternatives.
furthermore, the US needs to be careful about supporting less than savory "leaders" and military personnel. most democratic? i highly doubt it. i would prefer to live in malaysia and maybe even indonesia, although i would have to think carefully about choosing between afghanistan and yemen.
1
Leaving Afghanistan will lead to a human rights catastrophe, in which children and women will be the main victims. But, avoiding such disaster is the responsibility of every civilized country in the world, not just the US. The UN, not the US, should lead a global effort in which all nations with a minimum respect for human rights should participate. A strong diplomatic effort in the UN and major centers of power should form an international coalition to replace the US as the leading force in Afghanistan. Otherwise, you will have unabated suffering and massive displacement of people.
The only region in Aphganistan where the Taliban will have no popular support is the region where live the HAZARA people. They are shiite and were terribly persecuted by the Taliban. They are the 2nd largest ethnic group in Aphganistan. They speak a persian dialect. Its problably easier to protect them, and Iran is probably be willing to help to protect them. Rather than leaving Aphganistan altogether, keep a military presence in Hazarajat and hit the Taliban with drones out of that region.
1
After 5 years and $65B of building the Afghan Army and police they're still not ready to protect their own country and people. What makes anyone think that another year or two or ten will make the difference?
5
Can you imagine closing the door behind you, leaving your wife and children home, to go fight a ruthless terrorist group that is about to raid your village? Afghans can. Many Afghans can because they know if Taliban capture their village, the kids can no longer get vaccines, go to school, watch TV, or play.
They know this because they grew up without vaccines, school, TV, or play--due to a war that the US ignited, a war that led to creation of the malicious Taliban disease.
NYT should put together a photo album that compares shows Afghanistan from1960s to 2015. There was and there is conflict in Afghanistan. But now there is hope and progress, too.
America is behind the fall and rise of Afghanistan. Stand on the right side of history. Stand with Afghanistan.
They know this because they grew up without vaccines, school, TV, or play--due to a war that the US ignited, a war that led to creation of the malicious Taliban disease.
NYT should put together a photo album that compares shows Afghanistan from1960s to 2015. There was and there is conflict in Afghanistan. But now there is hope and progress, too.
America is behind the fall and rise of Afghanistan. Stand on the right side of history. Stand with Afghanistan.
2
Afghanistan has nothing to exchange for our help.
I think our policy in Afghanistan has been wrong from the start. We should have learned from England and Russia's experience that occupation of Afghanistan is not a good idea. Following 9-11 we should have , perhaps, conducted a punitive expedition on the Taliban for their having sheltered Bin Laden and for their not having been willing to hand him and his men over. But this long occupation has been wasteful in lives and money, and for what? As soon as we leave in sufficient numbers the Taliban will soon take over. The current Afghan regime has already been compromised by their association with us and will soon collapse. If we leave a skeleton force and an embassy their lives will be in peril. If we stay in force we will just waste more of our own lives and assets. Obama's first idea is a good one, cut losses and come home.
5
If we ever leave Afghanistan it will revert to what it would have been had we never gone there. Same with Iraq. The politicians responsible for wasting trillions of US taxpayer dollars in these countries should be held accountable. Our country would look very different now if that money had been used domestically.
5
Ridiculous. Nothing the USA has done or will do can change the situation in Afghanistan. Get the remaining US troops out immediately.
5
The Iraq embassy is almost as large as Rome's Vatican City and the most costly US embassy built to date coming in at $750M. So no wonder it would take a 1,000 marines to protect this fortress. The high hopes of the Bush/Cheney administration created yet another monster in Iraq by building this colossal mess.
We have already spent far too much in blood and treasure in Iraq. Its time to board up the place, say goodbye, and hope the door doesn't hit us in the rear end as we leave.
We have already spent far too much in blood and treasure in Iraq. Its time to board up the place, say goodbye, and hope the door doesn't hit us in the rear end as we leave.
2
There isn't much about capitalist democracy that many Muslims find that desirable, not to mention the culture it inhabits. One can only buy and fight their way into their hearts and minds for so long until we should realize it simply doesn't work.
2
The success of USA support is directly proportional to the level of commitment to The Rule Of Law of the region. If there is a significant core of population to lead in that direction then we should be ready for generational involvement as what we consider to be corruption is held as a normal way of life in the average population. If ultimately the people choose to NOT commit to The Rule Of Law then it is a hopeless venture.
I only see 2 reasons for intervention. If we were propping up the elected government while they consolidated their strength and built their own defenses, that would be worth fighting for. Trouble is, it doesn't seem to be happening. Second, if the current gov't's empowerment of women (women in professions, girls in schools, women's shelters) would rouse the people to fight for those values, that would be worthwhile. We have to see the Afghans step up. So many there cling to their traditional values.
1
The realization one must come to is there is no war to win in Afghanistan. That war was over when Bin Laden and Mullah Omar were removed from power and eventually killed. Unfortunately, keeping a small force of U.S. and NATO soliders permanently there is the only solution right now to stop terror groups such as the Taliban from capturing the entire country. At this point, it is important not allowing terror groups to have an entire country as a base of operations to plan another 9/11 attack. We have troops all over the world, why not continue to do so in Afghanistan?
oh yes, lets leave a few americans in afghanistan, so we can pretend what we did there wasn't folly. the country will sink or swim and americans will come home in body bags. feh.
3
"The Central Intelligence Agency also wants a larger presence to help protect its assets in Afghanistan." What Assets? Does the CIA use Afghanistan as its foothold in Central Asia?
To have "an embassy force of about 1,000, which mainly protects American diplomats in Kabul" sounds crazy!
In March 2014 Hamid Karzai refused to sign the Bilateral Security Agreement, saying U.S. troops were not needed in Afghanistan as his military was ready to take over entirely. What does he say today about ISIS making inroads? He is the reason why Ashraf Ghani is "not popular among Afghans". Perhaps he's planning a comeback!
To have "an embassy force of about 1,000, which mainly protects American diplomats in Kabul" sounds crazy!
In March 2014 Hamid Karzai refused to sign the Bilateral Security Agreement, saying U.S. troops were not needed in Afghanistan as his military was ready to take over entirely. What does he say today about ISIS making inroads? He is the reason why Ashraf Ghani is "not popular among Afghans". Perhaps he's planning a comeback!
2
How do you say Vietnam redux? Answer: Afghanistan.
President Obama do not send brave Americans into another Vietnam quagmire. Without committing to total war in Afghanistan and fifty years of occupation, then to continue the fight is an operation to enrich the military-industrial complex and unnecessarily kill more Americans.
To end the bloody wars in Iraq and Afghanistan is one of the critical reason you were elected President of the United States. If fourteen years of war have not changed the Afghanistan situation and culture, then 2-3 more years of America waging war there won't change it either.
Bring our troops home.
President Obama do not send brave Americans into another Vietnam quagmire. Without committing to total war in Afghanistan and fifty years of occupation, then to continue the fight is an operation to enrich the military-industrial complex and unnecessarily kill more Americans.
To end the bloody wars in Iraq and Afghanistan is one of the critical reason you were elected President of the United States. If fourteen years of war have not changed the Afghanistan situation and culture, then 2-3 more years of America waging war there won't change it either.
Bring our troops home.
No country has been able to pacify Afghanistan and bring political order. In the 1980s, the CIA funneled billions to the mujahedin to drive out the Russians, but notwithstanding they see us as infidels as well.
Do we want the same outcome? We should get out while the going is good. Otherwise, the President will leave a festering problem to his successor.
Do we want the same outcome? We should get out while the going is good. Otherwise, the President will leave a festering problem to his successor.
No! No! No! President Obama has been so wise about getting/keeping us out of foreign entanglements where military intervention can do no good. Yes, the armchair warriors will blame him when things go sour in Afghanistan, which they inevitably will. But military intervention will not win hearts and minds, Has everyone forgotten about Vietnam??? It is now up to the Afghanis to decide what they want. All American troops should be out of all of Afghanistan as well as the Middle East asap, long before President Obama leaves office.
1
Maybe Obama just learned something from the Iraq and Syria experience that if you pull out and leave a power vacuum the worst of the worst move in, abuse the population, plan for ways to kill America, generate millions of refugees and make you look feckless.
He could always say in the case of Iraq that is was a GWB mistake and we should have never went in but he cannot say that with respect to Afghanistan. Obama consistently supported that invasion and held it up as what we should have done. By pulling out of Iraq and fighting Assad he enabled ISIS and now he has to deal with ISIS in Afghanistan. Very ironic.
This just reinforces that we lack strategy and we seem delusional about our efforts and what kind of outcome will result from those efforts. We are consistently reacting to events and trying to impact them with very little leverage because we are constantly out of position including necessary dialogue and relationships.
Maybe Obama is not the smartest guy in the room. Or perhaps he is just not that interested in foreign policy. It certainly is an extraordinary mess.
He could always say in the case of Iraq that is was a GWB mistake and we should have never went in but he cannot say that with respect to Afghanistan. Obama consistently supported that invasion and held it up as what we should have done. By pulling out of Iraq and fighting Assad he enabled ISIS and now he has to deal with ISIS in Afghanistan. Very ironic.
This just reinforces that we lack strategy and we seem delusional about our efforts and what kind of outcome will result from those efforts. We are consistently reacting to events and trying to impact them with very little leverage because we are constantly out of position including necessary dialogue and relationships.
Maybe Obama is not the smartest guy in the room. Or perhaps he is just not that interested in foreign policy. It certainly is an extraordinary mess.
1
Obama should pull us out of Afghanistan. After 13 years, thousands of lives either lost or ruined, and billions of dollars on "home improvements" for Afghanistan: Afghanistan needs to step forward on its own. We have the intelligence and capability to protect ourselves from terrorism threats from Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq, Iran etc etc etc without occupying and supporting any of those countries. The strategy of preventive war and occupation to convert the mideast to democracy is expensive and ineffective. The bombast of Republican hawks like Senators McCain, Lindsey Graham, Vice President Cheney, Fox news talking heads and our military is designed to cover up the Republican foreign policy and US military's incompetence that led to the debacle of Iraq. Spending our blood and treasure on ineffective military intervention "over there" so we don't have to fight "over here" is wrong headed and counter productive.
After 14 years, I think it's time that we withdraw all of our troops from Afghanistan. It should have been done as soon as SEAL Team Six took out bin-Laden and dumped his carcass at sea.
Do we really want to spend additional years, perhaps decades, there?
No. Such commitment is too long, too open-ended and too uncertain.
Bring our troops home ASAP!
Do we really want to spend additional years, perhaps decades, there?
No. Such commitment is too long, too open-ended and too uncertain.
Bring our troops home ASAP!
Great, Obama has finally learned the lesson from Iraq - if we withdraw completely, then extremists like ISIS and the Tailban will fill the vacuum.
It is better to spend a little overseas to keep these extremists busy over there than have them build up a sanctuary and eventually attack us here.
It is better to spend a little overseas to keep these extremists busy over there than have them build up a sanctuary and eventually attack us here.
1
A force of 1000 to protect American diplomats in Kabul? Do other nations have a military force of 1000 in place to protect their embassy's diplomats? We might be very "exceptional" indeed.
Obama, campaigning, 2007: "Afghanistan is the right war." That was, what, a Novel Peace Prize and 5 wars ago? No surprise that in the marshmallow "debate" last night, not a Democrat dwelt upon the Middle East. How telling.
2
Pass the buck and kick the can down the road.
Once the Taliban cement their takeover of Afghanistan, they'll offer refuge to all the terrorists hiding in Waziristan, Pakistan. Then the end-game is the takeover of Pakistan for its nuclear arsenal. Saudi Arabia will have a robust nuclear arsenal by then, fortunately, to counter Iran, and Pakistan. For the etiology, check "Obama's Wars" and "The Rise of ISIS" on PBS Frontline. Then vote Republican to save America.
Curiously, this article doesn't consider public opinion in either the US or Afghanistan. A clear majority in both countries want the US to leave. The problem is how and when. Nobody wants all the deaths to have been in vain, but that is exactly the scenario that is in play. Obama's paralysis results from governing by poll. In 2010, polls (Gallup) said clearly that citizens of the US (66%) wanted to leave Afghanistan by a gradual timetable.
If a country wants to successfully occupy a conquered country, it can do it with relative ease, After all, what should have been the hard part (fighting) is over. What better example that the occupation of Germany and Japan after WWII? In Japan, 350,000 troops kept the peace and not a single serviceman was killed. In Germany, over a million allied troops occupied the country until 1955. Again, not a single US soldier was killed by Nazi insurgents.
This kind of occupation is expensive and requires a long-term commitment. The reason that we don't do that is twofold; because the general public wants a quick solution, and because endless war is the motto of the corporations who are our governing class. Our political establishment gets money from military contractors who are becoming a larger part of our economy every year. Peace doesn't require a continuous stream of military equipment so peace is never on the agenda.
If a country wants to successfully occupy a conquered country, it can do it with relative ease, After all, what should have been the hard part (fighting) is over. What better example that the occupation of Germany and Japan after WWII? In Japan, 350,000 troops kept the peace and not a single serviceman was killed. In Germany, over a million allied troops occupied the country until 1955. Again, not a single US soldier was killed by Nazi insurgents.
This kind of occupation is expensive and requires a long-term commitment. The reason that we don't do that is twofold; because the general public wants a quick solution, and because endless war is the motto of the corporations who are our governing class. Our political establishment gets money from military contractors who are becoming a larger part of our economy every year. Peace doesn't require a continuous stream of military equipment so peace is never on the agenda.
2
"Pressure on the White House"...from who? Certainly the American public is not demanding perpetual warfare?
5
Notoriously delusional War Hawk John McCain sponsors a paper calling for yet more war? Shocked.
Last week In an insightful piece by Salon.com's Ben Norton recaps just how deluded McCain is about the US war in Afghanistan:
http://www.salon.com/2015/10/06/john_mccains_insane_delusions_the_big_af...
Per Norton: "All the facts indicate that U.S. military intervention has only made matters worse. Yet, almost 15 years later, war hawks like McCain are still calling for more".
Our Commander in Chief should once again review the historical consequences of our decades of military actions in Afghanistan.
The American public should demand that President Obama uphold his commitment to end the US military involvement in Afghanistan.
Last week In an insightful piece by Salon.com's Ben Norton recaps just how deluded McCain is about the US war in Afghanistan:
http://www.salon.com/2015/10/06/john_mccains_insane_delusions_the_big_af...
Per Norton: "All the facts indicate that U.S. military intervention has only made matters worse. Yet, almost 15 years later, war hawks like McCain are still calling for more".
Our Commander in Chief should once again review the historical consequences of our decades of military actions in Afghanistan.
The American public should demand that President Obama uphold his commitment to end the US military involvement in Afghanistan.
1
So, based on the opinion of a multitude of current and former US government officials who have all FAILED in their combined 14 year attempt to 'bring democracy to Afghanistan" the American people need to keep pouring lives and treasure down a sinkhole while our nation quite literally crumbles around us?
Honestly, they all make me sick. They all seem to think that somehow or other their ongoing position supporting this monumental failure will be overlooked if we just keep going long enough and spend enough money and get enough of our own people killed.
Perhaps the training /education these self declared 'experts' all had needs to be adjusted to include several years of "America doesn't need war and how to live without it".
Honestly, they all make me sick. They all seem to think that somehow or other their ongoing position supporting this monumental failure will be overlooked if we just keep going long enough and spend enough money and get enough of our own people killed.
Perhaps the training /education these self declared 'experts' all had needs to be adjusted to include several years of "America doesn't need war and how to live without it".
3
Latin countries have a saying ‘after the baby drowns, cover up the well’
This baby is gone, doing a patch up job will only make Liberals feel good about their president, but does nothing at all to fix the mess we have made.
This baby is gone, doing a patch up job will only make Liberals feel good about their president, but does nothing at all to fix the mess we have made.
Tom Friedman said it best 15 years ago. "We can't want democracy more than they want democracy." If the Afghans or Iraqis don't have the heart to fight for their own country, then there's no point in spilling another ounce of American blood on their behalf.
3
Yesterday's Times article told us how much worse ISIS is compared to Taliban. Impossible for us to have an independent judgment on these fine but deadly points.
It appears that USA is stuck in that part of the world in perpetuity. If only money is concerned, we can probably afford it. Republicans and many Democrats agree on that. Hopefully, the Taliban will not kill too many Americans who actually volunteer for military service.
There was some progress since Vietnam war, some of us remember the details.
'Escalation' if not too large should be accepted, it seems to be quite inevitable.
It appears that USA is stuck in that part of the world in perpetuity. If only money is concerned, we can probably afford it. Republicans and many Democrats agree on that. Hopefully, the Taliban will not kill too many Americans who actually volunteer for military service.
There was some progress since Vietnam war, some of us remember the details.
'Escalation' if not too large should be accepted, it seems to be quite inevitable.
Why is NATO (North Atlantic Treaty Organization) in Afganistan?
Keep to the schedule and let Hillary decide during her terms.
2
For a proper Counterinsurgency strategy to work long-term a significant detachment of counterinsurgent soldiers must remain in the host nation for at least a generation. This is simple COIN theory that dates back to David Galula. Successful campaigns that have adhered to this strategy can be found in Indonesia, Malaysia, and several other small wars throughout the twentieth century. No to pull out completely or reduce the numbers of soldiers to a mere embassy staff level will invite the reclusive insurgent to regain a foothold, thus undoing COIN efforts of the past 14 years. President Obama has learned whatever lessons he has learned through the course of his administration. His vantage point on this issue is far better any other. If he goes back on his pledge to ‘end the war’ in Afghanistan it will not be due to a willful breaking of a 2007 campaign promise. It will be a decision based on current facts and acquired wisdom.
1
Finally a comment with some knowledge on the subject. Galula's principles were the bedrock of GEN Petraeus and GEN Mattis' strategy on building COIN. Both wars were terribly mismanaged for years by the executive branch and senior military leadership. So, if we want some semblance of success in Afghanistan, or at least stability, it's a long long road. One most of the American public won't stand for, which as a democracy we need the will of the people & leaders. Obama's looking at the situation on the ground now, and re-assessing. Thank god. If we leave as the situation stands now, Afghanistan will most likely end up ever worse than we left it.
I wish for peace for the people that have been through so much there, but the U.S. military leaving won't bring them that peace.
I wish for peace for the people that have been through so much there, but the U.S. military leaving won't bring them that peace.
To defeat Taliban and annihilate Osama bin Laden, the American people paid dearly with our soldiers' lives. We achieve the goal and get our justice.
We however, couldn't change what the Soviet Union failed, to instate a new government and control Afghanistan for good.
What we paid dearly is sunk cost that we cannot recoup. What we are going to pay in the future is still without our control. Afghanistan, its culture (addicted to easy money from opiate), its people (a different religion, with millions of assault weapons from various wars), plus the interference of other powers in the world, make it a black hole that we can never fill.
Let's get all troops out of Afghanistan. And let's take our embassy out of there as well -- until the country becomes safe enough.
We however, couldn't change what the Soviet Union failed, to instate a new government and control Afghanistan for good.
What we paid dearly is sunk cost that we cannot recoup. What we are going to pay in the future is still without our control. Afghanistan, its culture (addicted to easy money from opiate), its people (a different religion, with millions of assault weapons from various wars), plus the interference of other powers in the world, make it a black hole that we can never fill.
Let's get all troops out of Afghanistan. And let's take our embassy out of there as well -- until the country becomes safe enough.
1
Why leave a small for to protect the American Embassy in Kabul? When the Taliban take over the Afghan government, the embassy will suffer the same fate as the American consulate in Benghazi.
1
Marine guards always answer to the diplomats inside the Embassy but such a force would answer to the White House through its own chain of command. Surely they would maintain safety inthat part of Kabul until the cavalry rode in for the rescue.
1
We should have completely withdrawn from Afghanistan shortly after deposing the government in 2002. Now it is 2015, and we have been acting as though Afghanistan must forever be controlled by America. I want America to leave Afghanistan now, but I know that will not happen and are saddened by the knowing.
9
Once again, the U.S. faces being the world's police force in the absence of any willingness by regional countries to engage in that role. The question is the extent to which additional U.S. forces in Afghanistan are protecting the security of America. I trust the Obama administration on this issue which is not comprised of a bunch of war hawks.
2
General John F. Campbell, the top American commander in Afghanistan, that (whom) many Afghans now refer to the American officer as their "country’s defense minister."
----------------------------------------
So, American taxpayers are paying to have an American military commander serve as Afghanistan's "defense minister", huh?
Obama will leave a mess in Afghanistan and in Syria for the next prez to clean up. Short-change we can believe in.
----------------------------------------
So, American taxpayers are paying to have an American military commander serve as Afghanistan's "defense minister", huh?
Obama will leave a mess in Afghanistan and in Syria for the next prez to clean up. Short-change we can believe in.
3
Just like eight (8) years of Bill Clinton's baby steps and half-measures made 9/11 inevitable just eight (8) months into G W Bush's presidency.
Mr. Obama should stay on the course he has set for himself. Afghanistan has to stand on its own.
We have been there 14 years and it seems to me that grave lessons that couldn't be learned in that period may not ever be learned. Does that mean that we will always be at the nation's beck and call? Afghanistan's insurgencies have shown themselves to be durable and I don't think the US has will or energy for a generation-long commitment.
Moreover, the basic philosophy is wrong, and we should have learned this long ago. We can't impose our system on countries so utterly different from our own and expect it to stick. If they are to going to get there, and stay there, they have to find their own path.
We have been there 14 years and it seems to me that grave lessons that couldn't be learned in that period may not ever be learned. Does that mean that we will always be at the nation's beck and call? Afghanistan's insurgencies have shown themselves to be durable and I don't think the US has will or energy for a generation-long commitment.
Moreover, the basic philosophy is wrong, and we should have learned this long ago. We can't impose our system on countries so utterly different from our own and expect it to stick. If they are to going to get there, and stay there, they have to find their own path.
7
We've wasted $65 billion arming and training Afghan police and troops.
We've wasted $108 billion "rebuilding" Afghanistan.
We've wasted the lives of 2,700 GI's, maimed for life another 10,000, gifted a lifetime of PTSD and TBI on a hundred thousand, or so, others.
So, we just keep throwing good money and people after bad?
For what?
There is no winning there.
Raping young boys and selling daughters, like sheep, is the norm. The abuse of women is the custom.
We're fighting, dying and wasting a king's ransom in gold for this?
We've wasted $108 billion "rebuilding" Afghanistan.
We've wasted the lives of 2,700 GI's, maimed for life another 10,000, gifted a lifetime of PTSD and TBI on a hundred thousand, or so, others.
So, we just keep throwing good money and people after bad?
For what?
There is no winning there.
Raping young boys and selling daughters, like sheep, is the norm. The abuse of women is the custom.
We're fighting, dying and wasting a king's ransom in gold for this?
14
Rethinking? Why can't he go all the way in or just get out entirely? Half-measures and half-baked ideas got him in trouble in the first place. I think he is just biding his time so that he can leave it to the next administration to figure it all out. This will be his true "legacy" which he seems so preoccupied with.
2
Who are we supporting? - Who are we killing? Insurgents? Taliban? Isis? Al Qaeda? Sunnis, Shiites? Who are terrorists? How do you tell them apart? Are we the counter terrorists? What are we doing in this quagmire?
7
Let them fight it out. Osama has been dead for how many years now. We have more pressing needs at home. Invest in America, before throwing more money and lives away in Afghanistan. They have been fighting each other for Thousands of years and will likely still be fighting each other in another thousand regardless of our efforts. Lets focus on America and our Allies in Asian and Europe and leave the Middle East, Africa, and Central Asian to themselves.
2
No amount of American assistance for any length of time will ever stabilize Afghan, its just ungovernable given its tribal, sectarian, and corrupt nature. O's goal now is to find a way to avoid blame for putting American lives and treasure into it for the last seven years. So, we all know what he will do, say nothing, leaving it to the next jerk that occupies the White House. Hey, its the coward's way of doing things. No surprise.
1
If we’ve used force for 14 years in Afghanistan and still haven’t won, then we’ve lost. Let’s not linger any longer, spending 10 to 20 billion a year to maintain an embassy, but admit there are better ways to spend that money at home, and remove all our soldiers and our embassy.
11
We used real force until 2003.
We have been hanging out, patrolling and avoiding casualties since then.
We have been hanging out, patrolling and avoiding casualties since then.
You've got to be kidding me. This guy hasn't learned anything. Please don't be as ignorant as John McCain. The Taliban are there to stay. This 14 years is a drop in the bucket to the Taliban. We are in their country and they want us out. We will never defeat them. The longer we stay, the more innocent people get killed, and the Taliban's recruiting effort will thrive. If the Afghans don't want them there, they will fight back and decide their own destiny.
12
With all the suffering and human rights atrocities going on all over the world I'll never understand why all the attention to this one place.
4
More proof that Obama is by far the littlest president of our Times.
And lest we forget: the Times called Obama's decision to send 30,000 more troops to Afghanistan (that number obligingly released by the White House beforehand, all part of the new wave journalism, releasing news in two stages to soften the blow, to increase the likelihood they're missed altogether) "courageous and sound" -- those of course being the two words that least described the decision.
And lest we forget: the Times called Obama's decision to send 30,000 more troops to Afghanistan (that number obligingly released by the White House beforehand, all part of the new wave journalism, releasing news in two stages to soften the blow, to increase the likelihood they're missed altogether) "courageous and sound" -- those of course being the two words that least described the decision.
7
Afghanistan is the roach motel of wars - we checked in but can never leave.
It's ironic that the president who won the Nobel Peace prize will prolong the longest war in our history.
It's ironic that the president who won the Nobel Peace prize will prolong the longest war in our history.
6
President Obama should call on the two brilliant American leaders who planned and directed the rapid, stunning, low-cost rout of Al Qaeda and the Taliban in the fall and winter of 2001 -- America's best military success since Inchon.
2
If it had been a rout we wouldn't still be there. It was a temporary pull back by the enemy. They bided their time and came back stronger than before because they could use that "rout" as propaganda against the "infidels".
Must keep wasting $2.5 billion per week for nothing...
3
As noted in another story today, the end of international arms in Afghanistan spells the doom of women and girls and their education and work; the silence of womens' groups is significant as all of this become obvious.
1
What folly to continue the war into yet another presidency, when that occupant of the White House will again be trapped. Obama should screw up his courage and tell the military no, it's over. The Taliban, in one former another, has dominated Afghanistan for thousands of years and probably will for that much longer. What the U.S. couldn't accomplish in over a decade, it couldn't do in millennium.
10
"Mission Accomplished" redux.
4
The whole mess is not worth another dime nor another life. It takes courage and intelligence to understand that we have no threat from Afghanistan and no need to be there. We need leaders who have both, understand both. Yankee come home!
7
"the Taliban’s recent advances have convinced the Pentagon, many in Congress and much of the national security establishment in Washington that it is critical for American troops to remain there."
But it has not convinced the American people. Does there opinion count?
But it has not convinced the American people. Does there opinion count?
13
Obama is more of the same he has continued the Bush doctrine wake up Americans look around you.
4
Over 14 years in Afghanistan, is there any strategy we haven't yet tried? Oh yeah, how about not being in Afghanistan? That would be a novel and courageous approach if you ask me.
39
No reason to stay - let them solve their own problems and decide their future.
15
Because 14 years of propping up a corrupt Kleptocracy that hates women and children is not enough? There is no victory to be had here. It's time for the Afghans to slug it out and decide their own fate.
34
We seem to have forgotten, as we often do, why we went in to Afghanistan. The local terrorist, Osama bin Laden, was based there. He's gone now.
Get out. It will take us forever to beat the Taliban in Afghanistan. We don't want to be at war there forever. If another ObL comes along, return and take of it when it happens.
Get out. It will take us forever to beat the Taliban in Afghanistan. We don't want to be at war there forever. If another ObL comes along, return and take of it when it happens.
3
The empirical evidence suggests that the US cares more about the future Afghanistan than do its leaders and its military. If I didn't care about US military deaths or the waste of dollars, I'd say "Let's stay." But I do. So let's keep the transfer payments rolling in to our defense contractors and help them in every way that doesn't put a single American life in danger.
2
Yo u can pay with your txes, I don't want my money going to any more war. And the mercenaries should be put out of business.
Keeping the 10,000 force there seems worthwhile for many reasons. One is our credibility in the country and the region, as well as the good that we might be able to achieve; the other that is rarely mentioned and, if my memory is correct, appears crucial: rare earth elements.
China already has all those rare earth minerals. The Americans were the fools and did the dirty work for China and China is laughing all the way to the bank.
2
What credibility?
1
Isn't that precisely why we should stay there?
If we leave Afghanistan, can we keep the Afghans, and those that will use Afghanistan as a base for terrorism, out of the USA?
To those who want to leave Afghanistan to the Taliban and those who blame Obama for the continuing involvement w expense and troubles.. Get a grip ! We all invaded Afghanistan to help boot out the rabid Taliban and the job ain't done !
2
We invaded to get bin Laden. This is Vietnam all over again. We need to stop. Continuing is just throwing good money after bad.
2
& it never will be.
My you certainly are Gung Ho. How about you forming a merc team and leading the charge over there? No? Thought not, just let someone else's kids get maimed.
2
US presence would help Afghan Govt to establish its writ in the country. If America leaves with unfinished business n=behind, she may have to come back again. Its the cost now, or compounding cost in near and far future? Conflicts are initiated by will, they may not end the same way that easy. In the end a sizeable force is needed in that region to protect long term US interests,irrespective who is in Whitehouse, its the geo-strategic location of Afghanistan and too much stake for another 911. Taliban are bad news, to keep that bad news away from towns and cities, US troops and technology is needed on the ground, otherwise it will be wasted. This time around Taliban would be different than when America came to Afghanistan; they have learned the tactics to deal with western armies, local Afghan National Army in no position to safeguard any of the key interests or installations on their own. Current troops level by US and Airpower may help to sustaine Afghan Govt now and democracy in future.
2
Why not ask your country Canada to send you to afghanistan?
2
what this country needs is a military draft no exceptions. rich, poor etc all must serve a minimum of two years and if there is a conflict somewhere they must be deployed to that area. guaranteed a lot of conflicts will not happen because the politicians and rich will not want to send their precious children into a war zone.
25
That won't work. Rich people will figure out a way to buy their children out of the service. (See: our civil war)
2
Wars are not over until someone surrenders, which in this case appeared to be Obama, and ISIS is on the move in Afghanistan to fill the void.
9
Obama has no clue. He pulled our troops out of Afghanistan after stating during his first presidential campaign that this was the war that had to be won. Now loyal Afghan forces are paying the price for that boneheaded decision. The Taliban are running wild against the over matched Afghans. Similarly, he abandoned Iraq to ISIS, and they are wreaking havoc there. Meanwhile Syria is about to become a Russian satellite because Obama refused to back up his "red line in the sand" boast against Assad. I guess the Nobel Peace Prize winner just doesn't understand that simply wishing for peace does not make it happen.
7
The redline referred to the chemical weapons Assad had used in his war. Obama told him to give them up or expect cruise missiles. Assad relented and international forces took out those weapons. Mission Accomplished!
Congress was also asked to vote on expanded military actions in Syria. Congress voted No, reflecting the will of Americans. We don't want any more stinking wars, especially made up Repub wars.
So, there you go again. Parrot meaningless words on a topic that you forgot was all about in the first place!
So much for the 'redline' dig. Mission fail.
Congress was also asked to vote on expanded military actions in Syria. Congress voted No, reflecting the will of Americans. We don't want any more stinking wars, especially made up Repub wars.
So, there you go again. Parrot meaningless words on a topic that you forgot was all about in the first place!
So much for the 'redline' dig. Mission fail.
2
The whole concept of a holding action has beed a failure since Vietnam. Either get in and do the job, or get out and put focus resources in another area.
Our government needs to quit wasting our/my money.
Our government needs to quit wasting our/my money.
38
James Dobbins said "“You like Syria? How would you like to have another one?”
You like Afghanistan? How would you like another one?
Keep it up in Syria, and we can be involved in TWO forever wars. What a bargain, folks!
Just think of how much good another $65, $80, or $100 billion could do at home instead.
You like Afghanistan? How would you like another one?
Keep it up in Syria, and we can be involved in TWO forever wars. What a bargain, folks!
Just think of how much good another $65, $80, or $100 billion could do at home instead.
18
You forgot Iraq. Three forever wars.
And next up... Yemen.
And next up... Yemen.
1
Time to include Russia, China and other Afghan neighbors in planning future actions in Afghanistan. We will have to learn to live with the Taliban. Brute force does nothing but destroy human life and perpetuate conflict. We have to win "hearts and minds", and that requires wisdom not blood shed. Get rid of the Cave Men and women and get some brains in Washington.
2
Of course he is. Of course he is.
Remember, this is the same President who made 104 fundraising events before even bothering to meet with General McCrystal who was commanding General in Afghanistan. Only did THAT when it became headlines that he hadn't bothered to meet the man commanding 50,000 NATO troops in-theater.
Thanks, Obama. And how's that 'Hope and Change' thing working out for you Northeast Liberals?
Remember, this is the same President who made 104 fundraising events before even bothering to meet with General McCrystal who was commanding General in Afghanistan. Only did THAT when it became headlines that he hadn't bothered to meet the man commanding 50,000 NATO troops in-theater.
Thanks, Obama. And how's that 'Hope and Change' thing working out for you Northeast Liberals?
13
Working out fine for me. We are definitely better off than we were 7 years ago. I'm guessing your 401K is overflowing compared to when Obama took office. Millions more have healthcare. We haven't been attacked at home. He saved the Auto industry. The only problem we have is the Republican party. They stink.
1
Great! Getting out of hopeless quagmires instead of getting into them is exactly the change I wanted.
2
"Are we willing to spend...somewhere between $10 and $20 billion per year in perpetuity for the privilege of Afghanistan not totally collapsing."
NO, we the electorate demand that all US forces be withdrawn from this quagmire. How many other nations have failed at bringing this backward country in to the 21st century? How many more US weapons and how much more of our tax dollars will be diverted to the Taliban or ISIS?
NO, we the electorate demand that all US forces be withdrawn from this quagmire. How many other nations have failed at bringing this backward country in to the 21st century? How many more US weapons and how much more of our tax dollars will be diverted to the Taliban or ISIS?
17
Don't you know we are more competent than the Russians at running Afghanistan. And Syria. And the Middle East. If it's really that important design a tax to pay for it then present it to the Republican party in the House and have them deliver it to the Senate and sent to Obama's desk. That should get Norquist's panties in a twist.
14
and what will keeping American troops in Afghanistan accomplish? More American tax payers money wasted? There is no strategic value in remaining there. It is a waste of money and precious lives, both Afghan and ours.
21
If Obama's looking for a counterterrorism force in Afghanistan, he should arm the women.
19
And to what end is the purpose of postponing the withdrawal of American troops from Afghanistan? Seem like it's just another kicking the can down the road scenario. Whether it's next year or a few years down the road Afghanistan will implode and become a quagmire much like Syria is now. No sense putting off the inevitable. We gave it a good try; it's time to pack up and go home.
28
If we leave troops there indefinitely that may not happen. Seems worthwhile to me.
Now is the time to end the American empire.
11
Who leaked this story and why? It seems to be the latest version of the Pentagon's old plea:"give us a little more time and we'll turn the corner." But we never do turn the corner and things seem to get worse. It's time to go home. And anyway even after the soldiers leave the secret army of "CIA assets" will remain. They seem to be uncountable and unaccountable.
24
Great!
Iran has a deal with us while still working on atomic bombs and international ballistic missiles so they can reach us.
Obama is going to wipe out ISIS terrorists by bombing Iraq and supporting the Syrian rebels.
Who told him to withdraw the U.S. military from Iraq to begin with?
Military analyst Andrew Bacevich said, “What I see is an administration that is content to manage the quagmire that we’ve managed to get ourselves into.”
As Hardy repeatedly told Laurel in the Hollywood film comedies, "A fine mess you've got us into," always blaming everyone else except himself for the trouble he could have avoided to begin with.
Staying the course president Bush and Dick Cheney originally set or a variation therof would have avoided all the mess we're in now all over the world because the success of ISIS has encouraged other Muslims to join.
Same with Afghanistan.
Now it’s Obama’s big mess.
6
Uh, Thom, Bush signed the deal with his puppet Maliki to leave Iraq. This entire catastrophe can be traced directly to the Bush mendacity and malfeasance in office. Iraq is now aligned with Iran, thanks Bush. Bush paid off the Sunnis in Anbar province for some temporary stability when we left the payments stopped and the "Sunni Awakening morphed into ISIS. Bush and the Supreme Court who appointed him has bee an utter disaster for this country.
46
Dear Sir,
Even a casual reading of history would demonstrate U.S. Evolvement in the Middle East going back to Thomas Jefferson. The fact that you don't like a particular U.S. President doesn't absolve the current one or the past ones of the same or worse mistakes!
Be sure and vote for Hillary in 2016 as I feel she will be far tougher than our current President in World Affairs!
Even a casual reading of history would demonstrate U.S. Evolvement in the Middle East going back to Thomas Jefferson. The fact that you don't like a particular U.S. President doesn't absolve the current one or the past ones of the same or worse mistakes!
Be sure and vote for Hillary in 2016 as I feel she will be far tougher than our current President in World Affairs!
No...Obama and the Democrats have railed for years they would close Guantanamo and leave Afghanistan & Iraq.
So far, talk is, indeed, very, very cheap, isn't it?
But hey, we didn't vote for someone with capabilities - America voted for a talker.
And that's what we got.
So far, talk is, indeed, very, very cheap, isn't it?
But hey, we didn't vote for someone with capabilities - America voted for a talker.
And that's what we got.
21
You may have missed something. We did leave Iraq and we've only got 9000 troops in Afghanistan and they're on their way out.
1
But even though Mr. Obama has declared the American war in Afghanistan to be over,
---------------------------
So was he lying as usual or just clueless as usual.
---------------------------
So was he lying as usual or just clueless as usual.
9
Read my comments above to the other lunatic who spouted off.....
1