Obama administration should never have started effort to train and arm Syrians with questionable intentions in the first place. But pressure from some quarters from the other end of Pennsylvania avenue probably resulted in the error prone decision that has resulted in a mass exodus out of Syria that has become a humanitarian crisis. Russia and the USA should now cooperate to usher in the change desired by both.
4
"“There are many, many individuals in Syria who want to fight the regime,” said Christine E. Wormuth, the under secretary of defense for policy. “We were focused on identifying individuals who wanted to fight ISIL. And that’s a pretty challenging recruiting mission.”
This is precisely the problem that the West has in Syria. and with all conflicts in the Middle East. Western Governments and especially the 'Hawks' within those governments do not have the insight to reach into the mind of the fanatical Muslim.
They simply cannot understand the mindset whereby an Arab Militant will call you his friend when he is receiving largess but will quickly turn away at some perceived grievance against Islam itself.
The 'Hawks' when they hear of a second generation immigrant blowing up an innocent crowd in Boston or a serving Muslim Medic in the Military turns on his compatriots put it down to a mental botheration when indeed it is a mindset that has been fostered for over 1200 years and is not just a religion but a system of Law for all of their lives. The 'gung ho'philosophy of some of the American military is no substitute for a genuine understanding of the Islamic min and cannot be learned in a few decades of warfare against mainly western troops.
If a true diminution of the violence in the Middle East is truly desired, then Western and Asian Governments must recognise their culpability in fomenting the violence in the first place and do the next best thing and 'butt out'.
This is precisely the problem that the West has in Syria. and with all conflicts in the Middle East. Western Governments and especially the 'Hawks' within those governments do not have the insight to reach into the mind of the fanatical Muslim.
They simply cannot understand the mindset whereby an Arab Militant will call you his friend when he is receiving largess but will quickly turn away at some perceived grievance against Islam itself.
The 'Hawks' when they hear of a second generation immigrant blowing up an innocent crowd in Boston or a serving Muslim Medic in the Military turns on his compatriots put it down to a mental botheration when indeed it is a mindset that has been fostered for over 1200 years and is not just a religion but a system of Law for all of their lives. The 'gung ho'philosophy of some of the American military is no substitute for a genuine understanding of the Islamic min and cannot be learned in a few decades of warfare against mainly western troops.
If a true diminution of the violence in the Middle East is truly desired, then Western and Asian Governments must recognise their culpability in fomenting the violence in the first place and do the next best thing and 'butt out'.
2
This is proof positive that we need a Republican president. Why?
So the press will take him/her to task about plans to train and arm rebels in a civil war, reminding POTUS of the failures of similar programs begun by Truman/Korea, Kennedy and Johnson/Vietnam, Bush/Iraq, Obama/Syria et al.
So the press will question why a President and his/her administration contracts with a Canadian company with a poor track record to build a website, why spending multiplied to 10 X the original contract for a website roll-out that needed paper applications.
We need a Conservative president who may not be a Tele-Prompter Orator but who will hold people in his/her administration accountable, and a press that will point out lack of accountability.
We need a President to insist that IRS employees (et al) do their jobs, knowing that injecting politics into their workday will mean suspension and/or termination, and a press that would take him/her to task for not doing this.
We need a POTUS who will look at out-of-work citizens before committing to more immigrants and more agreements such as Clinton's NAFTA and Obama's TPP.
Maybe we just need an unbiased press that recalls its function: to investigate and report the truth. Maybe we need an unbiased press, not cheerleaders for their politician, their party.
And maybe we need a population that doesn't require politicians to be entertainers. (If you don't frown when you see Hillary Clinton 'dancing for votes', you won't get this.)
So the press will take him/her to task about plans to train and arm rebels in a civil war, reminding POTUS of the failures of similar programs begun by Truman/Korea, Kennedy and Johnson/Vietnam, Bush/Iraq, Obama/Syria et al.
So the press will question why a President and his/her administration contracts with a Canadian company with a poor track record to build a website, why spending multiplied to 10 X the original contract for a website roll-out that needed paper applications.
We need a Conservative president who may not be a Tele-Prompter Orator but who will hold people in his/her administration accountable, and a press that will point out lack of accountability.
We need a President to insist that IRS employees (et al) do their jobs, knowing that injecting politics into their workday will mean suspension and/or termination, and a press that would take him/her to task for not doing this.
We need a POTUS who will look at out-of-work citizens before committing to more immigrants and more agreements such as Clinton's NAFTA and Obama's TPP.
Maybe we just need an unbiased press that recalls its function: to investigate and report the truth. Maybe we need an unbiased press, not cheerleaders for their politician, their party.
And maybe we need a population that doesn't require politicians to be entertainers. (If you don't frown when you see Hillary Clinton 'dancing for votes', you won't get this.)
6
Embuing Middle Eastern rebels with Western ideologies and fighting styles, when their cultural heritage and fighting strategies are vastly different from the West's, is typical of the U.S. To make an impact, trainers must understand the region's culture and sociology and how to gain individuals' trust.
This has never been a point of emphasis for the U.S. military. One has only to look at Viet Nam, Libya, even Iran to note that use of brute force and excellent arms are not how all wars are won.
The military/industrial complex focuses on weapons technology and money.
But who is paying attention to the ancient ways and etiquettes, the fighting styles, of these ancient cultures?
The Middle East, once comprised of nomadic, small encampments, developed a system of conversation by which they got to know strangers. They had to trust the stranger before business was discussed. They made emotional assessments. It is still this way.
Asian cultures are homogeneic and respectful of form. African fighting strategies have tribal bases which involved the stealing of one woman each by rival camps. Then the leaders would discuss peaceful settlement and the women were returned.
While abandoning the Middle Eastern troop training effort is welcome, the U.S. really needs to place sociologists, historians and cultural experts into their "protection" efforts, not just weapons. Cultural sensitivity and playing the long game is the only way the U.S. can win in non-Westernized lands.
This has never been a point of emphasis for the U.S. military. One has only to look at Viet Nam, Libya, even Iran to note that use of brute force and excellent arms are not how all wars are won.
The military/industrial complex focuses on weapons technology and money.
But who is paying attention to the ancient ways and etiquettes, the fighting styles, of these ancient cultures?
The Middle East, once comprised of nomadic, small encampments, developed a system of conversation by which they got to know strangers. They had to trust the stranger before business was discussed. They made emotional assessments. It is still this way.
Asian cultures are homogeneic and respectful of form. African fighting strategies have tribal bases which involved the stealing of one woman each by rival camps. Then the leaders would discuss peaceful settlement and the women were returned.
While abandoning the Middle Eastern troop training effort is welcome, the U.S. really needs to place sociologists, historians and cultural experts into their "protection" efforts, not just weapons. Cultural sensitivity and playing the long game is the only way the U.S. can win in non-Westernized lands.
1
It doesn't appear that training is lacking. It is the motivation and courage to fight. You cannot put that in a bottle and pass it around. We need to do what we can on a humanitarian basis; otherwise reduce our presence in Syria and Iraq. Until we gain an adequate understanding of the ethnic, religious and cultural animosities at work in the area we will just fumble around and in all probability make matters worse. Footnote Mr President: Short of carpet bombing the Middle East with Nuclear Weapons you will not satisfy John McCain and his like minded crowd.
1
The "Syrian Train and Equip Program" is appropriately named.... because we "S.T.E.P. ed right into it" Now it's difficult and smelly to remove.
So we trained a handful of fighters lacking the skill or the will to fight ISIS with the end result providing arms to the enemy. Mirrors a Fast and Furious campaign with deadlier consequences or worse by aiding, abetting and advancing terrorist ( there I said it... the "T" word.)
"Indecision has often given an advantage to the other fellow because he did his thinking beforehand."
Maurice Switzer
So we trained a handful of fighters lacking the skill or the will to fight ISIS with the end result providing arms to the enemy. Mirrors a Fast and Furious campaign with deadlier consequences or worse by aiding, abetting and advancing terrorist ( there I said it... the "T" word.)
"Indecision has often given an advantage to the other fellow because he did his thinking beforehand."
Maurice Switzer
3
And most of these rebels in Syria are foreign fighters and not native Syrians trying to liberate their country. In Syria there are known extremists attempting to overthrow a legitimate government. These so-called moderate Syrian rebels are nothing more than extremists on the US payroll. Also, these moderate rebels have also surrendered some of their weapons to ISIS and Al Qaeda.
Let me finish by saying the only reason the Obama Administration canned their failed training program is because Putin called out the US on 60 Minutes and at the United Nations. Also as the article stated many in US Congress already knew the program was doomed.
Let me finish by saying the only reason the Obama Administration canned their failed training program is because Putin called out the US on 60 Minutes and at the United Nations. Also as the article stated many in US Congress already knew the program was doomed.
5
A very simple and effective way to resolve the ISIS case. Don't buy its oil, don't provide it with arms and other equipments (SUVs, military vehicles, etc.), don't finance it, keep it out of the international money transfer cycle and mechanism. This way will avoid war and terrorism. Then prosecute the people and the organizations that perform the above business with ISIS. Take the case of the Toyota SUVs handed to ISIS, it should not be difficult to identify who bougth them and sold them to ISIS, it is just matter of doing this identification.
5
• will instead use the money to provide ammunition and some weapons for groups already engaged in the battle.
They don't get it, do they? Just keep throwing money at them to what end?
"We might have learned some humility. Yes, the military toolbox is handy and often useful. But one of the most basic lessons of international relations is a frustrating one: There are more problems than solutions. Governments, like doctors, should weigh the principle, 'First, do no harm.'"
~ NICHOLAS KRISTOF
On Iraq, Echoes of 2003
The New York Times: Jun 18, 2014
Bring everything home – the bombers,the bombs, the hardware, the personnel; invest the $500 million at home on care for the damaged veterans of this entire insanity.
“The wise man is he who knows when and how to stop” ~ VICTOR HUGO
Let the Russians have their Syrian apparatchik and return to the calamities of their "Afghanistan" disaster. Let Russia's energies and treasure be sapped, they can ill afford it. Then it cost them their Soviet Union, maybe this time their Federation.
"In the modern world, conquest is for losers."
~ PAUL KRUGMAN
Putin, Neocons and the Great Illusion
The New York Times: Dec 21, 2014
War is waste.
They don't get it, do they? Just keep throwing money at them to what end?
"We might have learned some humility. Yes, the military toolbox is handy and often useful. But one of the most basic lessons of international relations is a frustrating one: There are more problems than solutions. Governments, like doctors, should weigh the principle, 'First, do no harm.'"
~ NICHOLAS KRISTOF
On Iraq, Echoes of 2003
The New York Times: Jun 18, 2014
Bring everything home – the bombers,the bombs, the hardware, the personnel; invest the $500 million at home on care for the damaged veterans of this entire insanity.
“The wise man is he who knows when and how to stop” ~ VICTOR HUGO
Let the Russians have their Syrian apparatchik and return to the calamities of their "Afghanistan" disaster. Let Russia's energies and treasure be sapped, they can ill afford it. Then it cost them their Soviet Union, maybe this time their Federation.
"In the modern world, conquest is for losers."
~ PAUL KRUGMAN
Putin, Neocons and the Great Illusion
The New York Times: Dec 21, 2014
War is waste.
5
Tens of billions wasted on a military program that has NEVER worked. Training groups we cannot define, to fight a war they do not want to fight. Presumably these are the same group(s) we expect to rise miraculously from the ashes of war and govern - place country name here - (Iraq,Syria, Libya, Afganhistan,etc)
And of course this new leadership we seek will be pro western, peace loving, human rights advocates on white horses seeking truth and justice for all.
Our leadership and the military industrial complex just ripped all of us off -- again.
And of course this new leadership we seek will be pro western, peace loving, human rights advocates on white horses seeking truth and justice for all.
Our leadership and the military industrial complex just ripped all of us off -- again.
4
When it comes to spending on pressing domestic needs, we are often told that there are no funds available for rebuilding infrastructure or aid to education, for example, yet, when it comes to throwing away money on misbegotten military spending, money is no object. Just think what this totally wasted $500 million or the "tens of billions of dollars" referred to in the article could do help the American public.
5
al-Quaida will no longer be getting US support.
They will have to rely on the Israelis and Saudis.
They will have to rely on the Israelis and Saudis.
5
Difficult to defeat I.S when they use women & children as shield protection, if the overall objective is eventually to stabilize & transition as much as Syria as possible Russia should & could cooperate with the 60 odd coalition, they need all the help they can get. They also know the Assad regime is on borrowed time, this of coarse requires the U.S to cooperate the longer they do not, the less moderate ground forces will survive..& I.S expand. We all know how reviled the Assad regime is, but I.S is far worse, a few days ago a 15 year old I.S fanatic shot & killed a administrative officer leaving a Sydney Police station he in turn was shot. I.S is on our front door step. something the U.S administration needs to think about............john
1
It occurs to me that in his political naivety, Obama is trying to play 'catch up' with Putin. Obama just does not seem to have the wit to understand that by opposing the aims of Assad and Putin, he is merely prolonging the misery of the Syrian people. The only possibility of normality in Syria is not to give the warring factions the means to carry on fighting. It is far more feasible that some sort of peace in Syria will occur if ALL of the outside powers are prevented from providing ammunition for the weapons.
It was the crass stupidity of Cameron and Sarkozy that started the ball rolling by encouraging the regime change in Libya which left a void for Islamic fundamentalists to fill. It soon spread to Egypt where, at least, the Egyptians quickly found out that they did not like living under the Muslim Brotherhood. Other Arab countries throughout the region tried to follow suit with their own brand of fundamentalism but in most cases, the ruling groups quickly put down the insurrection and generally brought back some semblance of peace.
In fact, the interference of the West has done far more harm than good. By facilitating the removal of cruel, but stable government, it has left the Region in untold misery as it is replaced with fundamentalism.
I am no fan of Assad, nor Putin but the quicker that Syria returns to stable government, the safer the WORLD will be. A fundamentalist Syria risks bringing a beleaguered, but nuclear armed Israel into the conflict.
It was the crass stupidity of Cameron and Sarkozy that started the ball rolling by encouraging the regime change in Libya which left a void for Islamic fundamentalists to fill. It soon spread to Egypt where, at least, the Egyptians quickly found out that they did not like living under the Muslim Brotherhood. Other Arab countries throughout the region tried to follow suit with their own brand of fundamentalism but in most cases, the ruling groups quickly put down the insurrection and generally brought back some semblance of peace.
In fact, the interference of the West has done far more harm than good. By facilitating the removal of cruel, but stable government, it has left the Region in untold misery as it is replaced with fundamentalism.
I am no fan of Assad, nor Putin but the quicker that Syria returns to stable government, the safer the WORLD will be. A fundamentalist Syria risks bringing a beleaguered, but nuclear armed Israel into the conflict.
7
The reality is that there are many "groups" in Syria, but only two substantive ones - ISIS and Assad. Our foolish idea that we were going to train "moderate" rebels was (and is) a silly fantasy. The fact that most of our "moderate rebels" took the expensive military equipment we gave them, and then sold it to ISIS speaks volumes for our incompetence. Some senior personnel in charge of this program should lose their jobs.
6
Harry S. Truman's motto: The Buck Stops Here.
4
Wise move, President Obama. Unlike clueless George W., criminal Dick Cheney and warmonger John McCain, Obama learns from our mistakes and makes the necessary adjustments to save lives and treasure.
Unfortunately, Al Quada and ISIS aren't the only sociopathic snipers the president must account for. The Fifth Column Republican party is also intent destroying him and our government from the inside. I'd say shame on them__but they obviously have none.
www.newyorkgritty.net
Unfortunately, Al Quada and ISIS aren't the only sociopathic snipers the president must account for. The Fifth Column Republican party is also intent destroying him and our government from the inside. I'd say shame on them__but they obviously have none.
www.newyorkgritty.net
the Obama administration historically will be branded as an American Disaster
... in all aspects of its (mis)performance...
... in all aspects of its (mis)performance...
6
'The letter referred to a recent incident in which some of the American-trained Syrian fighters gave at least a quarter of their United States-provided equipment, including six pickup trucks and a portion of their ammunition, to the Qaeda affiliate in Syria, the Nusra Front.'
- If the Americans were smart they would have put tracking devices in those trucks.
- If the Americans were smart they would have put tracking devices in those trucks.
4
This is not going to work! Any weapons the U.S. supplies will inevitably fall into terrorist hands. I vote that we terminate all military involvement in the Middle East and spend our precious tax dollars on humanitarian support. At least, we can control which mouths we feed, which bodies we clothe, which families receive housing.
2
I think it is time to admit there is something wrong with our techniques to train other countries to fight. I remember seeing the pictures from Viet Nam where 6'5" marines were trying to work with 5'2" Vietnamese soldiers. The weapons we wanted these people to use often appeared to overwhelm the more diminutive people. I do not know how many months of training our military has in the culture and beliefs of these other countries but I fear it is not enough. Iraqis, Afghanis, Syrians do not live in societies where people are as privileged as our kids. One of our guns costs more than many of their homes, one of our tanks is worth an entire village. The average American soldier has more gear than a person in Afghanistan sees in a lifetime. We seem to be trying to make them into American soldiers and that just does not work.
SUN TZU stated in his book The Art of War that to win you must first win the hearts and minds of the people.
My karate master stated "I can teach you 1000 techniques but I cannot give you courage.."
So no matter how well armed the rebels were perhaps the above precepts were not observed.
Stan Chun
Wellington
New Zealand
My karate master stated "I can teach you 1000 techniques but I cannot give you courage.."
So no matter how well armed the rebels were perhaps the above precepts were not observed.
Stan Chun
Wellington
New Zealand
3
So we’re going to arm some groups fighting in Syria. And the people who will do this are reading from the same US government playbook that had us train, arm and fund Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan. This is brilliant! That turned out so well. What could possibly go wrong this time?
Obama is delusional! He actually thinks he is winning against all the aggressors of the world!
3
Has it occurred to anyone that the folks running US foreign policy over the last half century are utterly corrupt and incompetent?
3
This country makes a mistake a day in trying to fiugre out the Arab countries. Not helped, of course, when some US political/ethnic group forced the gutting of Arabic language training in the Foreign Service Institute. I understand that on 9/11 there were more certified Danish speakers than Arabic speakers in the State Department. And we think we can communicate with these people? Benign neglect is the answer...it is staring us in the face.
1
Russia is an outsider interfering in the Syrian Civil War as is
The United States ..also an outsider interfering the the Syrian 'Civil War.
As difficult as it is to ponder the intervention of Russia or the USA...this
intervention should be a collaboration of Russia and the USA...
This is not a Europe via Russia via China via The Americas..
This is a global war game..and the sooner the US Defense Dept...understands
this idea...the sooner we get the 21st centrury ...rules of military engagement
correctly...thus avoiding WWIII...World War III will end civilization as we
know it...Dictatorships should be history; and Theocracies should also be
history....
and...we should not NOT reduce our military...but expand it...and
BRING BACK the draft..not just as combat forces but for taking care of
our infrastructure...and the benefit might be a 21st Century GI Bill for
a full 4 year US college education...Get MOVING ahead...and not try to
remedy what is obviously incapable of being remedied..aka the Assad
dictatorship...and zealots like Netanyahu...etc.
The United States ..also an outsider interfering the the Syrian 'Civil War.
As difficult as it is to ponder the intervention of Russia or the USA...this
intervention should be a collaboration of Russia and the USA...
This is not a Europe via Russia via China via The Americas..
This is a global war game..and the sooner the US Defense Dept...understands
this idea...the sooner we get the 21st centrury ...rules of military engagement
correctly...thus avoiding WWIII...World War III will end civilization as we
know it...Dictatorships should be history; and Theocracies should also be
history....
and...we should not NOT reduce our military...but expand it...and
BRING BACK the draft..not just as combat forces but for taking care of
our infrastructure...and the benefit might be a 21st Century GI Bill for
a full 4 year US college education...Get MOVING ahead...and not try to
remedy what is obviously incapable of being remedied..aka the Assad
dictatorship...and zealots like Netanyahu...etc.
1
The best possible move. Let the Russians get caught in a quagmire of their own.
2
America has NO BUSINESS wading into Islamic civil wars! It is long past time to close all our military bases in the Islamic world, withdraw the troops, rein in our corporations, and lower our profile culturally in the Islamic world. And we should have declared victory in Afghanistan and gotten out years ago.
3
It is hypocrite to say "to train Syrians to combat ISIS" while it is really "to train Syrian to fight their own government".
With Russians joining the gov side, it makes sense to end the program of "sending meat to the chop board".
With Russians joining the gov side, it makes sense to end the program of "sending meat to the chop board".
3
Let's leave some heavy weaponry for the Kurds, the only ones we know for sure will not change sides and the only ones protecting other minorities. Then, let's pull out all our "advisers", "trainers" or whatever we call them and bring them all home. Our presence there has not improved anything--quite the opposite--and we do NOT have a real solution to any of this Syrian/Iraqi mess, why pretend and sink in moneys we could use at home?
5
People want magic or at least the promise of magic. Not too long ago Obama was under pressure from various forces in Congress to arm the opposition in Syria. However, these forces were weak and there was the realistic fear that such arms would end up in the hands of the Islamists. The U.S. tried to train the forces but it didn't work out. Iraq's new government forced us out of their country just before ISIS made their move. ISIS wouldn't have existed if Sadam hadn't been ousted. Ironically G.H.'s advisors forecast an insurgency if we forced out Sadam in the 90s. His son had his own advisors a decade later who said otherwise. Now Russia has moved into Syria. Does any reasonable person believe that attempting to oust them is a good move?
2
It is hard to put into words the utter incompetence of the Obama administration. The President has managed to find a way for a 'regional power' (his words) to completely humiliate the United States, in Syria Iraq and Ukraine.
Worse, the President used NATO air power to overthrow a n Arab dictator that was no threat to the United States, something he arrogantly said he would never do. Yet, in the process, he broke the law (the War Powers Act) and sowed chaos throughout North Africa by taking down Libya. Terrorists now control Libya and have looted it of heavy weapons and explosives. Stay tuned for another 9/22 as a result.
In Afghanistan, the President 'doubled down' and surge troops to nearly 100,000, resulting in more combat deaths with nothing to show for it but increasing Taliban gains.
In Yemen, the President supplies Saudi Arabia with intelligence and weapons to decimate the country, yet the media remains silent about White House involvement in this dirty war.
I really hope America has learned a lesson when it comes to inexperienced leadership in the White House and a disastrous national security cabinet.
Worse, the President used NATO air power to overthrow a n Arab dictator that was no threat to the United States, something he arrogantly said he would never do. Yet, in the process, he broke the law (the War Powers Act) and sowed chaos throughout North Africa by taking down Libya. Terrorists now control Libya and have looted it of heavy weapons and explosives. Stay tuned for another 9/22 as a result.
In Afghanistan, the President 'doubled down' and surge troops to nearly 100,000, resulting in more combat deaths with nothing to show for it but increasing Taliban gains.
In Yemen, the President supplies Saudi Arabia with intelligence and weapons to decimate the country, yet the media remains silent about White House involvement in this dirty war.
I really hope America has learned a lesson when it comes to inexperienced leadership in the White House and a disastrous national security cabinet.
3
I don't believe official reports. I guarantee that Administration is aware of MAJORITY of the money was going straight to ISIS, who are allies of Assad, and there is no excuse to building up ISIS.
Thank God they cancelled... at least only half of billion went to ISIS....
Thank God they cancelled... at least only half of billion went to ISIS....
1
500 million dollars for the trainees to learn to raise their hands in the air ala ferguson protesters. could have fed a lot of starving children in the US, instead.
3
The US Syrian end-game is revealed. Assad wins.
200,000 dead Syrians lose.
200,000 dead Syrians lose.
3
Another Obama retreat and failure.
5
Exactly what must Obama and the executive branch of this administration do to be impeached, ousted and shunned by all US Citizens? There are quotes from brilliant people to cover most any emotion. "Have you no shame, at long last have you no sense of shame"
Are not the death and dismemberment, stoning, beheading and rape of innocents and the importation of criminals, invasion of and by tens of thousands... extortion, waste, illegality and abject failure at home and abroad... incomparable arrogance, racism, sexism and false sympathy enough?
Are not the death and dismemberment, stoning, beheading and rape of innocents and the importation of criminals, invasion of and by tens of thousands... extortion, waste, illegality and abject failure at home and abroad... incomparable arrogance, racism, sexism and false sympathy enough?
2
Once again, smooth. Now can we discuss "plausible deniability"? http://journal-neo.org/2015/10/10/us-defense-secretary-ash-carter-said/ It's about time we got our New York Times back.
Come on, report.
Come on, report.
2
Fire all the US generals who proposed all these lame military programs which have failed in Syria. Shameful. Vietnam. Iraq. Afghanistan. Syria. We lost or are losing or not succeeding in all of them. When are we going to learn. You cannot go into countries and militarily win. Period. US, stay out. You are wasting American lives and trillions of dollars.
2
To predict the future we must reflect on history. It is high time America disembark from Saudi, and let the middle East sort out their own problems. America has always been a great country, and really has no need to be involved. If their people have grown weary and wish to immigrate here,then prepare to assimilate or stay where you are.It's that simple. All this mollycoddling has to stop.
1
Stop War in Syria
1
I wouldn't call this great news. In a way, it's just like leaving the dentist: you're just thankful the pain is over. What would please me would be an announcement of a major, high level purge at the Pentagon. That would be great news.
1
The most inept administration in a hundred years.
3
We tax-payers would like our $500 million back.
3
Why does the article mention there's another program run by the CIA as almost a sidenote?
2
The 'moderate' rebels had about as much of a chance of winning as the Washington Generals against the Harlem Globetrotters. Why anyone believed in that nonsense in the first place is beyond me. I know CNN in particular was pretty guilty of glamorizing the rebels and being woefully naive about who they were and what they represented.
1/2 billion dollars spent to train a handful of soldiers?? Where did all the money go?
9
Obama blew 1 trillion on his failed porkulus
The US has a very simple program thats been in place since the Second World War. Arm and kill everyone. Sow democracy. Exclude Russia. If it doesn't work we've got the great department of homeland security. If violence is state sponsored, we've got nuclear weapons. The great part is that it's simple enough for a politician to remember.
4
Whatever happened to "Don't do stupid stuff"?
Has Turkey agreed to stop bombing Kurdish forces?
Ending the failed training program was long overdue. But the new program, between Arab distrust of the Kurds and Turkish open hostility toward them, seems doomed to failure.
Does anyone in the White House truly believe this is a good plan? Or is it simply the least awful one? The president should heed the advice he gave Putin and get out.
Has Turkey agreed to stop bombing Kurdish forces?
Ending the failed training program was long overdue. But the new program, between Arab distrust of the Kurds and Turkish open hostility toward them, seems doomed to failure.
Does anyone in the White House truly believe this is a good plan? Or is it simply the least awful one? The president should heed the advice he gave Putin and get out.
8
Inertia is engineered into most Obama projects so this is of no surprise. Notwithstanding Benghazi, like the not so affordable Affordable Care Act the roll out in Syria was never presented with obvious sign of perpetuity.
6
"You may not be interested in war but war is interested in you" (Leo Trotsky)
....when in doubt about the rectitude of confronting terror consult a terrorist
....when in doubt about the rectitude of confronting terror consult a terrorist
4
Obviously the U.S. has no idea of who is fighting against Assad and it doesn't really care. The important thing is, after getting rid of Egypt, Lybia and Iraq, to now get rid of Syria. That would make Israel feel much safer, which was the purpose of the Arab Spring idea. Maybe we are approaching the time when we will finally know what's happening in the Middle East.
3
Obama Administration Halts Pretend Program to Train Syrians to Combat ISIS.
10
This failure of training "moderate rebels" in Syria teaches a broader lesson about US policies in the Middle East. There is a region-wide conflict right now. All the players are eager to take advantage of US aid - whether economic or military - and use it against their enemies. However, none of them share Obama's vision of democracy, some kind of united front against ISIS, or a negotiated peace.
Time to take a step back. Stop letting wishful thinking dictate policy.
Time to take a step back. Stop letting wishful thinking dictate policy.
4
"We should also stop our ineffective bombing of ISIS - which only helps Russia - and leave the field to Putin."
That may well be what happens. But if the US truly wants to defeat ISIS, and can get over its disappointment that Russia has taken over the lead and intends to beat ISIS by strengthening Assad, it sill will be helpful for the US to keep bombing ISIS. Let's not take our eye off the ball so quickly here – beating ISIS should be the goal.
That may well be what happens. But if the US truly wants to defeat ISIS, and can get over its disappointment that Russia has taken over the lead and intends to beat ISIS by strengthening Assad, it sill will be helpful for the US to keep bombing ISIS. Let's not take our eye off the ball so quickly here – beating ISIS should be the goal.
4
Training and arming Syrian "Freedom Fighters" is not working? An effort undertaken by the US Government is not working? What a shock! With our overwhelming record of success in Vietnam, Bolivia, Nicaragua, Libya and the Sudan, I would have thought this was a slam dunk. Maybe we should let whomever trains the TSA, IRS and DMV workers have a crack at this. After all they have all done superlative jobs there.....
6
Thank you, Mr. Putin. You taught US how adults think and act.
9
Same old same old. Didn't I read this exact same article couched in the same vague "what we are going to do in the future" terms six months ago? This barely qualifies as news. Just the NYT repeating what they were told by the Defense Department, the administration, the Pentagon, and "sources" who sound more like shills.
7
Horse feathers. What pains Washington is the possibility of the Russians getting the upper hand in Syria. It's blatantly obvious. Washington wants control of Syria, and Assad is not their man.
8
I lived in the Middle East in a Gulf state nearly ten years ago during the George W. Bush war in Iraq. I noted the Arabs have a deep underlying resentment to the West. After the First World War the British and the French and later the USA carved up the Middle East and used divide and rule policies to rule there. I took off my Western cultural glasses and tried to comprehend the Arab people. It is not just Sunni vs. Shia. It is also a complex family, clan, and tribal network. Obama is right to be cautious. There is no easy solution. Any political settlement would redraw boundaries. Would the Turks allow the Kurds to have their own state? Would Assad be allowed to have an Alawite enclave around Latakia? Does the USA and the West still need 'oil'? The West as Russia has pointed out have left Libya in a mess. Will the Sunnis deal with IS?..Many questions ....Are there any answers??
3
Obama has not been cautious. He's only admitting a mistake and a failed program, and trying to mend it by providing terrorists more arms.
There is no easy solution. In this situation we either choose a secular dictator, or an Islamist terror state. Russia has forced our hand and made us look incompetent. No wonder our state department, the DoD, and NATO is working in overdrive to paint Russia's actions as a failure.
My belief is that we should stop giving these rebels weapons. Spend the 500 million on the refugees in Turkey. Continue bombing IS. Suck it up and work with Iran to defeat IS in Iraq. Protect what we fought so hard for in 2003.
But Syria has turned into a quagmire, and in many ways the West is to blame. There is no politically pretty solution, and that's why it won't be solved.
There is no easy solution. In this situation we either choose a secular dictator, or an Islamist terror state. Russia has forced our hand and made us look incompetent. No wonder our state department, the DoD, and NATO is working in overdrive to paint Russia's actions as a failure.
My belief is that we should stop giving these rebels weapons. Spend the 500 million on the refugees in Turkey. Continue bombing IS. Suck it up and work with Iran to defeat IS in Iraq. Protect what we fought so hard for in 2003.
But Syria has turned into a quagmire, and in many ways the West is to blame. There is no politically pretty solution, and that's why it won't be solved.
5
I see no "operational pause". Coalition airstrikes continue. If the rebels really want thier country back the US should just provide them with intelligence and logistics information. Firepower ends up in the wrong hands.
"...Will the Sunnis deal with IS?"
Pretty sure ISIL is predominately Sunni, so I seriously doubt that will happen.
Pretty sure ISIL is predominately Sunni, so I seriously doubt that will happen.
The "moderates" wanted to fight Assad. ISIS fights Assad. Why would anyone think they were willing to die fighting ISIS?
I pretty much think there really aren't any moderate anti Assad forces. They are mostly Islamist. The moderates are now called refugees.
I pretty much think there really aren't any moderate anti Assad forces. They are mostly Islamist. The moderates are now called refugees.
5
It is in the interest of theUnited States to let Rusia cleanse and eliminate isis fron Siria and Iraq. The so called moderates are really disguised terrorist. Hasad and his father gave stability to Siria for more than 40years. isis was created when the US and EU gave military help to terrorist disguised as democrats .You cannot bring democracy to nations plagued with ethnic hate for centuries. Look what happened in Libia and Iraq the sufering of the sirian emigrants. Putin has no imperial ambition he needs to defeat isis to prevent its extension to Rusia and to central asia with a large islamic population
3
I have a crazy idea: what if we stop spending trillions of dollars making the Middle East worse and just have nothing to do with it?
6
Goodbye, Syria. Let Russia clean up the mess and reap the "rewards", which I'm sure will be many in that part of the world.
Syria is Russia, Iran, and Iraq's ally. It has a major Russian naval base in it.
Russia gets the support of Shia's worldwide in a time of diplomatic isolation.
Finally Russia gets to kill the same terrorists who have killed tens of thousands in Russia over the last 3 decades.
What do we gain?
Democracy? Good feelings?
I say all we gain is more terrorists, more refugees, and more pain.
Russia gets the support of Shia's worldwide in a time of diplomatic isolation.
Finally Russia gets to kill the same terrorists who have killed tens of thousands in Russia over the last 3 decades.
What do we gain?
Democracy? Good feelings?
I say all we gain is more terrorists, more refugees, and more pain.
6
Do we have any idea what's going on and what we are doing? When was the last time we could talk about a victory?
3
Why? Too expensive - $1,000,000 per rebel - or afraid Putin is going to kill them and then the President will look bad.
In the real world, when you take the possibility of force off the table and your enemies know it, you are powerless to do anything.
Problem is President Obama and Secretary Kerry don't live in the real world. Their fantasy world view will cause - and has caused - unnecessary deaths.
Hope its not someone I know and love.
In the real world, when you take the possibility of force off the table and your enemies know it, you are powerless to do anything.
Problem is President Obama and Secretary Kerry don't live in the real world. Their fantasy world view will cause - and has caused - unnecessary deaths.
Hope its not someone I know and love.
4
I meant to say $100,000,000 per rebel. Sorry.
1
So cutting aid to moderate rebels means weakening them for Russia, common sense would have been to actually increase aid since the other side got a boost.
But what is next since we're pretty sure Asad will win. Why do people dream about things that will not happen, like a political solution when so much was spilled.
If we don't see the Sunni Syrians join ISIS in droves in the next few weeks, then Obama's support for the rebels is actually increasing - SECRETLY or through Saudi Arabia. The stakes are just too high for Russia to get comfortable so close the worlds' largest oil reserves.
But what is next since we're pretty sure Asad will win. Why do people dream about things that will not happen, like a political solution when so much was spilled.
If we don't see the Sunni Syrians join ISIS in droves in the next few weeks, then Obama's support for the rebels is actually increasing - SECRETLY or through Saudi Arabia. The stakes are just too high for Russia to get comfortable so close the worlds' largest oil reserves.
...and the right wing piles on.
The ONLY people with room to complain here are those who protested our going into Iraq, no matter their political affiliation.
This whole situation is part of the hornet's nest brought about by W, his cadre of hawks, who duped the Democrats into going along with it all, and an unquestioning base, resulting in yet another colossal mess for someone else to clean up, as is usual with the GOP.
Stop pretending like W never existed, GOP. You know as well as anyone else of your culpability here. You just refuse to admit it.
At least Obama has the spine to admit a mistake, and, post-presidency, will not be found in hiding with his oil paints and a lifetime of resentment at being used and abused by his daddy's ''friends.''
The ONLY people with room to complain here are those who protested our going into Iraq, no matter their political affiliation.
This whole situation is part of the hornet's nest brought about by W, his cadre of hawks, who duped the Democrats into going along with it all, and an unquestioning base, resulting in yet another colossal mess for someone else to clean up, as is usual with the GOP.
Stop pretending like W never existed, GOP. You know as well as anyone else of your culpability here. You just refuse to admit it.
At least Obama has the spine to admit a mistake, and, post-presidency, will not be found in hiding with his oil paints and a lifetime of resentment at being used and abused by his daddy's ''friends.''
4
Typical liberal comment - one that seeks to stifle debate by claiming that only certain people can have an opinion on a matter. Yikes.
When Mr. Obama admits his far, far bigger mistake of abandoning Iraq following the successful surge operation -- when all of his generals advised against it -- call me.
When Mr. Obama admits his far, far bigger mistake of abandoning Iraq following the successful surge operation -- when all of his generals advised against it -- call me.
8
George Bush won the Iraq war. Obama inherited a stable Iraq, Biden even tried to take credit by calling Iraq Obama's greatest success story. But next Obama committed the biggest blunder in history: he yanked troops out of Iraq too soon, against the advice of every general, diplomat and adviser he had, just to score a few cheap temporary political points.
1
Watching MSNBC reporting, I heard 2 interesting facts:
1. We spent $500 million training our militant moderates.
2. The number of those trained who are actually engaged in combat? "Four or five".
Sounds like a government program to me. The Obama administration can't even get a full football team into combat.
1. We spent $500 million training our militant moderates.
2. The number of those trained who are actually engaged in combat? "Four or five".
Sounds like a government program to me. The Obama administration can't even get a full football team into combat.
7
Pay attention; the team is irrelevant.
It's about time. Now stop obsessing about Assad, ditch Saudi Arabia, and start to work with Russia, Iran, Assad, and the Kurds to bring ISIS to heel.
8
The anti-Assad rebels have long been complaining about a lack of heavy weapons - the kind of weapons that would be needed to topple Assad. And so our community organizer commander in chief says that we'll give you some light duty weapons providing that you use them to fight ISIS - not Assad. Needless, to say, that idea went over like a lead balloon.
2
So we are aligning with troops from Saudi Arabia in Syria?
1
Yet another stunning success of the Obama regime! When is Obama going to admit his endless list of other failures, like ObamaCare, the failed porkulus, Cash for Clunkers, the War on Police, Dodd-Frank, the outlaw renegade EPA, opposition to keystone, etc, etc, etc
4
Our efforts to train Afghani forces to take on Taliban is floundering, and we have learned that many of those trained are actually allied with the enemy they were supposed to fight.
Now this.
Flounderer-in-chief.
Now this.
Flounderer-in-chief.
4
The crucial mistake in President Obama's plan to build up a effective Syrian rebel force was made several times during the article;thev U.S. was attemmptingbto train a foregin military force to fight someone WE thought should be engaged NOT the enemy the foreign nationals wanted to fight. Napolean said the morale of an army is to its physical compostion and deployments in a ratio proportion similar to 3:1.
The preceeding observation by "the little corporal" also observered by other military leaders as far back as Sun Tzu, was blithly ignored by the President and his Pentagon advisors. I suspect President Obama was concerned about ISIL filling in the political vacuum in the region after the removal of the al-Assad government in Syria.
But since Russia has entered to war to support the al-Assad government, instead of a brutal Muslim sect possibly taken over Syria, a Russian puppet government also backed by Iran will instead. Mr. Putin saw President Obama's hesitancy to militarily engage directly and the falterting of al-Assad government and was left with few opitions to protect their strategic interests in Syria and moved in.
I would not be surprised if Mr. Assad meets with a unfortunate fatal accident or is involuntarily removed from power in a coup by next April, especially since Mr. Putin has escalated Russia's investment to sending ground forces, in addition to military aid and conducting aerial bombing.
The preceeding observation by "the little corporal" also observered by other military leaders as far back as Sun Tzu, was blithly ignored by the President and his Pentagon advisors. I suspect President Obama was concerned about ISIL filling in the political vacuum in the region after the removal of the al-Assad government in Syria.
But since Russia has entered to war to support the al-Assad government, instead of a brutal Muslim sect possibly taken over Syria, a Russian puppet government also backed by Iran will instead. Mr. Putin saw President Obama's hesitancy to militarily engage directly and the falterting of al-Assad government and was left with few opitions to protect their strategic interests in Syria and moved in.
I would not be surprised if Mr. Assad meets with a unfortunate fatal accident or is involuntarily removed from power in a coup by next April, especially since Mr. Putin has escalated Russia's investment to sending ground forces, in addition to military aid and conducting aerial bombing.
A president who acknowledges that it is time to withdraw from another nation's civil war.
How unique and refreshing.
How unique and refreshing.
4
Amazing how you can spin an announcement by the Administration of complete utter failure into a positive. [When President Obama inhales and exhales you must get all giddy -- ' just look at that man breath! I've never seen anything like it.']
BTW, CMS, we were never fully engaged in anything from which to withdraw. We pussy footed around and unfairly held out the hope to the moderate rebels that we would help them in a significant way. We didn't.
Mr. Obama was a rank amateur when he was elected and he has learned nothing. We are talking James Buchanan territory. He should worry that objective scholars write the history.
BTW, CMS, we were never fully engaged in anything from which to withdraw. We pussy footed around and unfairly held out the hope to the moderate rebels that we would help them in a significant way. We didn't.
Mr. Obama was a rank amateur when he was elected and he has learned nothing. We are talking James Buchanan territory. He should worry that objective scholars write the history.
2
Obama lacks the intellectual capacity and self-awareness required to acknowledge that he had made a mistake. This "decision" was thrust upon him by a smarter and more capable leader on the world stage. He had no choice. That's not "refreshing"; it's humiliating... And had brought us even closer to war.
2
Russia can lob cruise missiles from its home territory, across friendly territory (Iran and Iraq).
To do the same in our lame attempt to topple Assad, we would have to launch ICBMs. Sniveling drones are not quite as daunting as Russian military might, in an area that has always been recognized as within the Russian sphere of influence.
Exactly who in the Pentagon is pushing for WW3? I thought Obama was supposed to stop the war crimes.
To do the same in our lame attempt to topple Assad, we would have to launch ICBMs. Sniveling drones are not quite as daunting as Russian military might, in an area that has always been recognized as within the Russian sphere of influence.
Exactly who in the Pentagon is pushing for WW3? I thought Obama was supposed to stop the war crimes.
3
Our original goal was to get Bin Laden. They got him. Now pack it up and go home.
3
Using your "logic" WWII should have ended when Admiral Yamamoto, the architect of the Pearl Harbor attack, was killed in 1943.
1
Yes, Johnny, you get a blue star on your head for being the last winner! Admitting a mistake tells me how basically good and mature you are. No, Johnny, you don't have to fix anything. Good intentions are all!
1
I think most American voters can be made to understand that in the grand scheme of things, Syria is irrelevant.
1
No it's not! If Islamic State takes over Syria, that puts them on the border with Turkey, Jordan and Lebanon (including Golan Heights) and dangerously close to Israel and Saudi Arabia.
4
And then Bibi might have to come back to speak in front of the Speaker of the House!
Some people will fight, and never give up, some people will give up, and never fight, trouble is, they both look the same, in the beginning, when they see money flowing in.
4
Barack Obama, year 7 of the bumbling mass of incompetency. You would think that after spending 200 millions this crew of fools might have realized that it wasn't near working but that might actually take some courage and intelligence. I do enjoy how Obama knows nothing until he reads it in the paper. He reminds me of Sgt. Schultz from Hogan's Heroes, except Schultz was funny on occasion.
6
"I know NOTHing!"
1
What is it that the US wants to see happen in Syria? Is it to see Asadd fall, dancing in the streets, and the waving of American flags? We keep having this dream since the liberation of Italy in WWII. Of course, go after the terrorists, but isn't that mostly for our benefit? It isn't within the scope of reality for the US to play parent to every child in the world (unfortunately). This is in part to blame for our over reaction and over involvement. But images have emotional and haunting power.
4
"If Russia and Iran team up with the Syrian army, they will present a formidable fighting force that ISIS has never encountered before."
And the US can help out by coordinating with Russia, Iran and Assad in the bombing of ISIS -- assuming, of course, that the US' goal is to defeat ISIS rather than to refuse to cooperate with Russia, Iran and Assad.
And the US can help out by coordinating with Russia, Iran and Assad in the bombing of ISIS -- assuming, of course, that the US' goal is to defeat ISIS rather than to refuse to cooperate with Russia, Iran and Assad.
7
"And the US can help out by coordinating with Russia, Iran and Assad in the bombing of ISIS"
Yes, I agree. The half-hearted effort we've put into fighting ISIS is complete folly. It requires a DNA analysis to distinguish one of our "moderates" from Nusra Front and other jihadist groups. The only viable force that can mount a serious challenge to ISIS is the Syrian army. We need to hold our noses and work with Russia to assist the Syrian army taking on ISIS.
Either ISIS is or is not a serious world-wide threat. If it is, let's get serious about fighting it. Otherwise, let's come home.
Yes, I agree. The half-hearted effort we've put into fighting ISIS is complete folly. It requires a DNA analysis to distinguish one of our "moderates" from Nusra Front and other jihadist groups. The only viable force that can mount a serious challenge to ISIS is the Syrian army. We need to hold our noses and work with Russia to assist the Syrian army taking on ISIS.
Either ISIS is or is not a serious world-wide threat. If it is, let's get serious about fighting it. Otherwise, let's come home.
3
Phil: Al Nusra isn't moderate, no matter what Obama says. They murdered my Orthodox Christian relatives in Ma'aloula, Syria,
Why don't we just leave? Why are we there? What good have we done in the middle east over the past 15 years? How much money have we wasted? How many lives have been lost? ENOUGH ALREADY!! Close up shop, bring home our troops and equipment, and tackle the problems we have right here at home.
We need leadership in Washington that cares about America, not getting involved in other people's problems half a world away. It's not isolationism - it's Learning From Your Mistakes.
We need leadership in Washington that cares about America, not getting involved in other people's problems half a world away. It's not isolationism - it's Learning From Your Mistakes.
5
There are tens of thousands of young men fleeing to Europe shouting save my babies, and less than 50 willing to fight. Is the problem us, or them? They should take a page from the Israelis and show some guts. I think the problem with the "moderate" Muslims is much deeper than a mistaken US air strike.
5
Funny you should mention the "Syrian Observatory for Human Rights:"
"It is sadly not only the Times that has fallen for this charade that is the Syrian Observatory for Human Right; even progressive media such as Democracy Now have fallen for it."
A couple of years ago, the Times did a long article on the SOHR, pointing out that it was really just one guy -- a Syrian ex-pat who lived in some small city north of London -- sitting cross-legged on his bed with a laptop. Though I notice SOHR is now referred to as a "group," thus suggesting he's maybe hired his 11-year old son to help out, it was referred to as a "group" back then too, so I'm not sure he's expanded. Back then, and maybe now, he basically collected information from "activiists" -- no government sources whatsoever, nor (to my recollection) any info from the al Nusra Front or ISIS.
Frankly, I think that one guy, sitting cross-legged with his laptop on his bed in that small city north of London, may be almost single-handedly responsible for most people's belief that the "Free Syrian Army" still exists.
"It is sadly not only the Times that has fallen for this charade that is the Syrian Observatory for Human Right; even progressive media such as Democracy Now have fallen for it."
A couple of years ago, the Times did a long article on the SOHR, pointing out that it was really just one guy -- a Syrian ex-pat who lived in some small city north of London -- sitting cross-legged on his bed with a laptop. Though I notice SOHR is now referred to as a "group," thus suggesting he's maybe hired his 11-year old son to help out, it was referred to as a "group" back then too, so I'm not sure he's expanded. Back then, and maybe now, he basically collected information from "activiists" -- no government sources whatsoever, nor (to my recollection) any info from the al Nusra Front or ISIS.
Frankly, I think that one guy, sitting cross-legged with his laptop on his bed in that small city north of London, may be almost single-handedly responsible for most people's belief that the "Free Syrian Army" still exists.
9
He lives in Coventry. And he is funded by the opposition. More honest news outlets than this mention that he's part of the opposition. The times, though, uses his claims unquestioningly.
2
Yes, our media often quotes information from the SOHR. My question is, who is supporting him?
1
Ash Carter is an utter and total disaster.
I urge President Obama to ask for his resignation.
Most seriously.
I urge President Obama to ask for his resignation.
Most seriously.
6
Ash Carter manages the military as they carry out Obama's orders. He doesn't determine overall policy. You're seeking the resignation of the wrong person.
3
Wrong.
Donald Rumsfeld had great influence, including his PR persona.
Ash Carter is no Rumsfeld.
But his PR shtick is a joke, and he couldn't command a cotton swab.
Donald Rumsfeld had great influence, including his PR persona.
Ash Carter is no Rumsfeld.
But his PR shtick is a joke, and he couldn't command a cotton swab.
1
Another one of Obama's military failures.
Who told him to withdraw the U.S. military from Iraq to begin with?
Military analyst Andrew Bacevich said, “What I see is an administration that is content to manage the quagmire that we’ve managed to get ourselves into.”
As Hardy repeatedly told Laurel in the Hollywood film comedies, "A fine mess you've got us into," always blaming everyone else except himself for the trouble he could have avoided to begin with.
Staying the course president Bush and Dick Cheney originally set or a variation therof would have avoided all the mess we're in now all over the world because the success of ISIS has encouraged other Muslims to join.
Same with Afghanistan.
Now it’s Obama’s big mess.
And it keeps spreading.
3
"Who told him to withdraw the U.S. military from Iraq to begin with? "
GWB, who signed the SOFA with Iraq that required us to leave. Why don't you know that? It's weird that you don't.
You're really uninformed. Bacevich called GWB's Iraw folly "immoral", so citing him doesn't bolster your already ignorant argument.
GWB, who signed the SOFA with Iraq that required us to leave. Why don't you know that? It's weird that you don't.
You're really uninformed. Bacevich called GWB's Iraw folly "immoral", so citing him doesn't bolster your already ignorant argument.
4
Bush negotiated 99% of the SOFA and Obama threw it away! Obama premature withdrawal of troops will go down in history as the biggest blunder ever!
2
This terrible idea only reinforces that military intelligence sometimes is an oxymoron. This debacle is only only worsened by the fact, that included in inflated government contracts, exists language providing for the replacement of the lost, stolen or damaged equipment. We get to buy them twice.
1
What a fiasco. At least $500 million U.S. dollars spent and nothing has been achieved. In some respects, we are even worse off, showing that the U.S, can't even train an army. President Obama's feckless foreign policy has brought us to this, with his famous "red line" being the starting point. No matter how much the Administration tries to shift the conversation and the blame, America has lost its way and its influence in the Middle-East, leaving others to fill the gap to our detriment.
5
Finally a Middle Eastern quagmire we are smart enough to get out of while Russia is dumb enough to jump into. We should also stop our ineffective bombing of ISIS - which only helps Russia - and leave the field to Putin.
2
Goes to show if you want something done right you have to do it yourself.
1
Hilarious watching the Obama apologists here...lol. Syria was HIS idea, and he fell flat on his face, and then when Russia ordered us to get out, that they were taking over, we tucked our tail and did what he said and ran. This whole thing is a total embarrassment for the US, and once again demonstrates what a joke Obama is. Did Bush's actions bring about the root cause of the problems? Absolutely. Did Obama still have an epic failure here? Yes also.
9
No, Syria was not his idea. We're there to fight ISIS, period, not expel Assad.
You must watch Fox.
You must watch Fox.
2
What right to you have to fight in Syria? Please show a) UN Security council resolution or b) permission of President Assad's government. Neither? Get out or be shot down.
"We're there to fight ISIS, period, not expel Assad."
They why did we encourage the failed revolution against Assad, and why are we funding groups whose primary goal is to unseat Assad?
They why did we encourage the failed revolution against Assad, and why are we funding groups whose primary goal is to unseat Assad?
5
Unfortunately, the "rebel force inside Syria to combat the Islamic State"(ISIS/ISIL) was never intended to combat the Islamic State. They are virtually one and the same. The real target has always been Assad and regime change, instigated by our "moderate rebel forces" or "Syrian fighters" whose training and funding was initially part of a program that The Hillary Brand® oversaw, a program that was taken over by other flacks in the Pentagon. Our lackluster attacks upon ISIS were deliberately lackluster, designed to inflict as little damage as possible, so that "our terrorists" - "ISIS/moderate rebels/Syrian freedom fighters" - could function as our proxy warriors to create chaos inside Syria, and - such as the grand scheme was - bring down Assad in the process. Russia threw a spanner in the works by supporting Assad, and actually targeting the ISIS terrorists that we conveniently missed. Recall the frequent blunders where we hit Assad's army and training centers instead. We got away with this farce by pleading "bad intel" - and Russia, taking the heat for actually taking on the real terrorists, has shown the world that our foreign policy in Syria was a con job from the start.
Obama is "stepping back" from this disaster of a Middle Eastern conflict - and it's about time. Unless he is ready to confront Russia militarily, with China siding with Russia and Syria as well, backing off and stopping this stupidity is the wisest decision he has made in a long time.
Obama is "stepping back" from this disaster of a Middle Eastern conflict - and it's about time. Unless he is ready to confront Russia militarily, with China siding with Russia and Syria as well, backing off and stopping this stupidity is the wisest decision he has made in a long time.
5
So Russia just kicked USA out of Syria in a matter of several days? Just days ago US general (or whatever) said USA will NOT retreat.... What a joke
4
DOD wasted $500 million.Cut the DOD budget by 20% based on FY 15 actual expenditures as a penalty for utter stupidity.How many generals/admirals were involved in this fiasco?
2
We should cut the DOD budget anyway.
5
The Defense budget has already been axed to the bone. The army is smaller now that in 1939. You people slash and burn the defense budget and wonder why hospitals get bombed
It looks like Hillary Clinton and Mitt Romney were right about Barack Obama after all. Syria is just the latest episode with this guy. He simply is not up to the job. He never was. Apparently it takes more than a Chiclet smile and a hipster's swagger to be POTUS.
9
I must be reading a different article. What I get out of it is, instead of having spent that particular $500 million here we will now spend additional funds there.
4
In light of the CiA's confession of having covertly armed "moderate" rebels, the US bears the responsibility of housing refugees and should make every effort to ensure their safe passage from Syria.
Why doesn't Iran take them? They support Assad who's doing the killing?
Ah, that would force Iran to take responsibility for something instead of just blaming everything on the West.
We both now Iran is incapable of that, Iran is too cowardly.
Ah, that would force Iran to take responsibility for something instead of just blaming everything on the West.
We both now Iran is incapable of that, Iran is too cowardly.
2
Ummm, no. That should be Iran for supporting the dictator they are running from,
1
Training any Muslin group is folly. Always will be.
5
"Training any Muslin group is folly. Always will be."
It's worse than folly: iI's counterproductive, since we will probably end up fighting them.
It's worse than folly: iI's counterproductive, since we will probably end up fighting them.
2
Let's face it, whatever "strategy" Obama might've had in the Middle East lies in ruins. He doesn't know what he's doing.
8
I suspect Pres. Obama did the bidding of the Neocons thinking they could overthrow Syria's president, Assad using a proxy army. Seems like in 2012 the U.S. thought Assad was about to be toppled. I guess the whole agenda backfired. Now, 3 years later, Assad is still there and now with direct Russian support.
1
This was a very expensive lesson we learned. How many teachers, police, firefighters, etc., in the US could that have bought? Or, how much storm damage could that have paid for? How many roads and bridges would that have repaired or improved?
We always seem to have a lot of money to waste when the president or congress wants to do something, but we never have enough to do the things we should be doing a home
We always seem to have a lot of money to waste when the president or congress wants to do something, but we never have enough to do the things we should be doing a home
5
Unfortunately, lost in the chaos of the Syrian disaster, is the plight of Syrian minority groups, Christians and Alawites. Representing 20% of Syrian population, they became hostages of Assad's regime. They had no choice but side with Assad since his opponents quickly became radicalized based on their ethnic and religious identity as Sunni Muslims. If Assad's regime falls to the demands of the US government, these people are in grave danger. As we (US) try to figure out which ones of Islamic militants are better "friends" to us, we are subjecting millions of Syrian citizens to a rapidly approaching catastrophe.
3
"they became hostages of Assad's regime"
To the contrary, Assad has always permitted diverse religious practice including Christians and Jews. Islamic State is their mortal enemy. Assad is protecting them.
To the contrary, Assad has always permitted diverse religious practice including Christians and Jews. Islamic State is their mortal enemy. Assad is protecting them.
2
New York times has been censoring my comments on this topic for over a year and probably thought it was a joke .... and look at my location .... would I be joking. So one more time:
There is no moderate (cute) rebels or radical (ugly) rebels the one who wins will transform into radical rebels and all have seen this throughout the history it is the law of the jungle. I am certainly glad Americans have stopped funding (moderate) rebels. Some sense has prevailed.
There is no moderate (cute) rebels or radical (ugly) rebels the one who wins will transform into radical rebels and all have seen this throughout the history it is the law of the jungle. I am certainly glad Americans have stopped funding (moderate) rebels. Some sense has prevailed.
7
Can you imagine if we had applied this Realpolitik thinking in '03 when we chose to invade Iraq. The resulting benefits boggle the mind. A cool trillion to invest in our own infrastructure building. 26,000 troops not injured, let alone 4000 plus dead. No ISIS. Iran boxed in and begging for relief from sanctions, so they could fight Saddam.
Sometimes the decision is NOT to engage.
Sometimes the decision is NOT to engage.
4
That cool trillion would have been wasted on people like Solyndra, Elon Musk, Democrat bundlers and other crooks touting green energy. Such is life in a crony socialist state.
The "peace dividend" always becomes a slush fund.
The "peace dividend" always becomes a slush fund.
2
lol.. your planet deserves to perish human
What are you smoking Mike. Seriously are you ever, ever going to hold this administration to task for how ineffective and wasteful it is.
1
This reminds me of the film "Zardoz" with the giant floating head spewing guns so the Brutals will all kill each other.
1
There's a blast from the past.
So I guess at this point we can all agree ISIS was trained by he CIA. ISIS is regime-changing tool! Lol
8
No, we can't all agree on that. What we can agree on is that Iran funds Assad who kills his own people.
1
Lawyer/DJ: Assad is all that stands between the religious minorities, such as my Orthodox Christian relatives, and death at the hands of Muslim extremists.
1
Yeah, they stopped training them... all 5 of them
11
Too little, too late.
Obama (and any other administration, in general) should think of the money as their own, before spending on such lost causes.
And if deciding to spend, then commit 100%. It should have known from the beginning that training non-US personal has never worked (truly) in the past.
Obama (and any other administration, in general) should think of the money as their own, before spending on such lost causes.
And if deciding to spend, then commit 100%. It should have known from the beginning that training non-US personal has never worked (truly) in the past.
3
And as Obama becomes irrelevant in world conflict so too does the US. If you don't think that has long term consequences look at the failure to execute wars in Korea and Vietnam.
Americans are in more danger now than ever before. The simple undeniable truth is that the world is governed by the use of force and the perception of strength. As we shrink from the world, people that wish to do us harm grow.
The purpose of fighting over there, is so that we are not fighting over here. I only wonder how much longer it will be before the next Muslim attack on American soil.
Americans are in more danger now than ever before. The simple undeniable truth is that the world is governed by the use of force and the perception of strength. As we shrink from the world, people that wish to do us harm grow.
The purpose of fighting over there, is so that we are not fighting over here. I only wonder how much longer it will be before the next Muslim attack on American soil.
5
Tell you what....why don't you go and fight Isis with your family and friends.
Most Americans are not really interested in fighting in the Middle East.
Obama listened to,the American people and choose not to renter these conflicts that Bush directly caused with his illegal and immoral war in Iraq.
So please go fight on your dime!
Most Americans are not really interested in fighting in the Middle East.
Obama listened to,the American people and choose not to renter these conflicts that Bush directly caused with his illegal and immoral war in Iraq.
So please go fight on your dime!
1
Even the Chinese are getting Putinish with us now. We are the fat kid on the playground now.
3
So go fight in Syria, tough guy.
America has a long history of having to choose between supporting zealots or supporting tyrants. Typically we go for the tyrants mostly because American Business finds it preferable to deal with tyrants then zealots. Hats of to Obama for choosing neither.
2
The return on the investment of the American taxpayers' $500 million spent to arm and train the Syrians can be summed up in bureaucratic mush: "Operational Pause" and "enablers." What a deal!
2
Recognizing that you're wrong isn't all there is to making a good decision. The administration has no, absolutely no, real idea of what it wants in the middle east. This lack of knowing why things are happening and what the actual result will be continues to allow Putin and Xi to think they can do anything they want (or to put it if "fair" terms) makes them think they have to fill the void of leadership left by a "retreating" US. This lack of wanting to be a leader actually puts the world at risk and along with it it puts the US at risk.
Examine history. The administration is more than wrong, it is leading the world to the brink of the next world war.
Examine history. The administration is more than wrong, it is leading the world to the brink of the next world war.
5
May we have the $500 million back?
3
Sure! We'll also get the trillions back from Obama's failed porkulus, ObamaCare, the disastrous ObamaCare website, Cash for Clunkers, Solyndra, Libya, Obama's endless vacations, etc, etc, etc.
1
Who is the CIA training? Is it the groups financed by the Saudis that we would call extremist under sun light?
3
Well... at least they admitted they were wrong and didn't stubbornly let it turn into another Iraq/Afghanistan/Vietnam situation? Realistically, the mistake never should have been made in the first place, and it shouldn't have taken this long or cost this much to get here. Past administrations have been making this mistake for decades. You don't give training or arms to non-state actors which aren't beholden to international law, and you damn sure don't do it in a place as volatile as the Middle East. You can draw a straight line between Operation Cyclone and 9/11, and it cuts through the Reagan Administration's Middle East policy. You'd think that would have been enough history to learn from.
If we were ever going to get involved in Syria, it should have been from jump the same way we handled Libya. Once protest has failed and people turn to rebellion, if they ask for our help then we give it: air strikes, no fly zones, medical supplies, food and water, tactical support, sanctions against their leaders. That's it. If the people of Syria want a revolution, they can't have it as a US proxy against Russia and Iran. That's not how functioning states work. Leave the fight against Assad's war crimes to the United Nations. That's why we have it.
If we were ever going to get involved in Syria, it should have been from jump the same way we handled Libya. Once protest has failed and people turn to rebellion, if they ask for our help then we give it: air strikes, no fly zones, medical supplies, food and water, tactical support, sanctions against their leaders. That's it. If the people of Syria want a revolution, they can't have it as a US proxy against Russia and Iran. That's not how functioning states work. Leave the fight against Assad's war crimes to the United Nations. That's why we have it.
1
Libya is yet another Obama/Clinton disaster. Obama overthrew Kadhaffi and then handed the nation over to ISIS
1
I support the military, I just do not support the generals and government who do not know how to judge what to be done when we get into a war….this includes, Bush, chaney, rumsfeld, and today's crew.
A courageous act by the President, putting the values of America and interests of Americans ahead of those of party(Republican and Democrat) war hawks and thanks especially for standing up to the military-industrial complex. People and lives, American and Syrian, ahead of war profiteering, unfortunately a rare event in American history.
23
It was the bumbling and incompetence of the Obama presidency that caused this in the first place. Courageous act indeed.
1
What a bizarre definition you have of courage as it was Obama who is the architect for this debacle. Obama is more concerned about polishing his legacy than in the nation.
1
"A courageous act by the President?" This fool just flushed a half billion dollars down the drain as he leads from his behind and all you can say is it's a "courageous act/". He was told before he did this it would never work but with Obama, he's always the smartest guy in the room...except when he's not which is quite often.
1
Give Syrian "rebels" money..they leave Syria, use the money to get citizenship in Germany, Norway, Austria......and Americans are out a half a billion dollars. Well played, well played indeed.
3
only after experiencing a couple of failures and spending trillions of dollors, we now started to make some positive decisions.
1
Some mistakes are mistakes before they are begun.
2
Agreed. $500 million, in reality, is peanuts to learn that lesson, too.
This is a good start...... we should end all our military meddling. Let's give this problem to the UN to resolve diplomatically.
3
We are so inexperienced it seems. This idea was always a hope and a fantasy not something grounded in the real world. Whose idea was it anyways to throw $500 million to people we do not know?
The proof is in the irony that we cannot find any fighters in Syria to align with against Assad while Russia sees them all as ISIS and similar type entities. Was $500 million spent on fictitious people or just front people for ISIS and AQ? It sure seem like it. Our equipment certainly ended up in the wrong hands. Is it possible that Russia has better intel than the US and we are just suckers?
The proof is in the irony that we cannot find any fighters in Syria to align with against Assad while Russia sees them all as ISIS and similar type entities. Was $500 million spent on fictitious people or just front people for ISIS and AQ? It sure seem like it. Our equipment certainly ended up in the wrong hands. Is it possible that Russia has better intel than the US and we are just suckers?
3
We would have no trouble finding fighters in Syria to go after Assad who has killed so many Syrians in horrible ways. The President is not looking for fighters to go after Assad. What he wants are fighters who will go after ISIS, and only ISIS, as a brief paragraph toward the end of the article states. About the only fighters who will go after ISIS and only ISIS are the Kurds.
The Pentagon and the CIA have had different programs in Syria to look for fighters in two different but related fronts. First, the Pentagon has been trying to find Sunni Arabs (NOT Shia or Alawites) to fight only ISIS in the eastern part of Syria. That is the program that has failed miserably because no Sunni Arabs want to fight ISIS exclusively or first.
Second, the CIA has been trying to find and train Sunni Syrian Arabs, who perhaps are moderates, to fight Assad. They are fighting alongside Al Nusrah and others. They are in western and northwestern Syria, and are being bombed heavily by the Russians. How much help we will give them now is not clear at all because the President doesn't want to get into a quagmire in Syria to oust Assad.
The President talks about getting rid of Assad, but he has not given whole-hearted indeed very little--support to the Syrian Sunni Arabs fighting Assad. Instead, he wants to fight ISIS and only ISIS because he views them as a terror threat and a threat to Iraq.
The Pentagon and the CIA have had different programs in Syria to look for fighters in two different but related fronts. First, the Pentagon has been trying to find Sunni Arabs (NOT Shia or Alawites) to fight only ISIS in the eastern part of Syria. That is the program that has failed miserably because no Sunni Arabs want to fight ISIS exclusively or first.
Second, the CIA has been trying to find and train Sunni Syrian Arabs, who perhaps are moderates, to fight Assad. They are fighting alongside Al Nusrah and others. They are in western and northwestern Syria, and are being bombed heavily by the Russians. How much help we will give them now is not clear at all because the President doesn't want to get into a quagmire in Syria to oust Assad.
The President talks about getting rid of Assad, but he has not given whole-hearted indeed very little--support to the Syrian Sunni Arabs fighting Assad. Instead, he wants to fight ISIS and only ISIS because he views them as a terror threat and a threat to Iraq.
1
Good. And, let's agree that there will not be more American boots fighting and dying for who knows what! Oil? Land? Political influence? The Saudis, Jordanians, Turks, and Israelis can and should manage their own neighborhood, including what to do about the new muscle from Russia.
We have too many more important issues to work on here at home. Let's try to put our own house in order for a change.
We have too many more important issues to work on here at home. Let's try to put our own house in order for a change.
3
A moderate rebel is one which will kill women and children quickly
ISIL and the non moderates do not kill quickly
So that tells you all you need to know about who Obama was funding
ISIL and the non moderates do not kill quickly
So that tells you all you need to know about who Obama was funding
4
that should be whom , not who
The administration needs to fully back the Kurdish resistance groups in Syria and Iraq. They are the only ones with few strings attached, that can be trusted as allies in the region. The Iraqi military had no courage in the face of ISIS, and independent guerilla groups in Syria are foxued on Assad, not ISIS. In fact, they may be sympathetic, and may side with ISIS once Assad is out. The Kurds are the only ones that can be trusted.
1
"The administration needs to fully back the Kurdish resistance groups in Syria and Iraq"
Do you think our NATO ally Turkey will like that? Nope. You haven't given much thought to this, have you?
Why do we need to fight ISIS? Why do we need to fight Assad? We don't.
Do you think our NATO ally Turkey will like that? Nope. You haven't given much thought to this, have you?
Why do we need to fight ISIS? Why do we need to fight Assad? We don't.
Another example of hard-working military staff being sent on a fool's errand; there are no good guys in this conflict
We've know that all along, but somehow we had to spend $100,000,000 per fighter to confirm it
For that kind of money, we should have been able to build a squadron of transforming robots with super powers
We've know that all along, but somehow we had to spend $100,000,000 per fighter to confirm it
For that kind of money, we should have been able to build a squadron of transforming robots with super powers
3
Complete failure of a ridiculous idea. Doesn't the U.S. Ever learn? We armed rebels to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan and they turned into Al Queda. We sent arms to Syrian Rebels and now Isis has that equipment. We toppled Saddam, then retreated and left the country and allowed it to descend into chaos. Yet Mr Obama clings to his fantasy of "Assad must go". U.S. Foreign policy has been a joke under this administration. Putin realized the opportunity Obama's weakness has given him and has seized the moment. And he is correct that supporting Assad as bad as he is, is still the best way to bring stability back to the region. But it will be a stability where Russia gains the top hand and the U.S. reinforces the reality that our leader is weak, and we are just a paper tiger now, a fading power. Our friends cannot count on us, and our enemies need not fear us.
5
We have no friends.
As everything is about politics, I'm certain the same Repubicans who criticized the President's program in the first place, will criticize this latest abandonment of the program. It's quite obvious to those who pay attention that there is a large body, or largely Repubs that want US troops, or 'boots on the ground' in the Middle East---again!
1
First, the US Government needs to acknowledge that "we" created ISIS, when we "trained and equipped" Saddam in Iraq years ago. We sent endless buckets of money, arms and training so he would do our bidding in Iran. And, he joyfully took all that we gave him ... and then went his own way.
Saddam's old Field Commanders lead ISIS. They were trained by the best in the business; the US. Now, we fight them on their own turf. And now, we look for "Allies" in that Country to help us fight them.
Guess what? You can't buy friends or Allies. You would think our "Leaders" would have figured that out by now. But, no. And, why were we in Iraq in the first place? To make their Country safe for Democracy, or Women's Rights, or Religious Freedom? No. We were there to make the World safe for Big Oil and Defense Contractors.
We need to come clean on this, and quit making the same ugly mistake. If we truly offer something better and positive to other Countrys, maybe we would have some Allies and friends to help, rather than US Troops always doing the heavy lifting, dying, and picking up the tab.
Saddam's old Field Commanders lead ISIS. They were trained by the best in the business; the US. Now, we fight them on their own turf. And now, we look for "Allies" in that Country to help us fight them.
Guess what? You can't buy friends or Allies. You would think our "Leaders" would have figured that out by now. But, no. And, why were we in Iraq in the first place? To make their Country safe for Democracy, or Women's Rights, or Religious Freedom? No. We were there to make the World safe for Big Oil and Defense Contractors.
We need to come clean on this, and quit making the same ugly mistake. If we truly offer something better and positive to other Countrys, maybe we would have some Allies and friends to help, rather than US Troops always doing the heavy lifting, dying, and picking up the tab.
6
Let Russia have at it in Syria. We don't care.
4
Next on the list should be Afghanistan and Iraq. It's time to nation build at home.
4
Why has President Obama been so ineffective in Syria? From whining that Assad must go, to drawing red lines that he refused to enforce, to labeling ISIS as the JV to training a few friendly fighters, Obama seems to be totally incapable of making any positive difference in Syria. I wonder if that reflects the incompetence of Hillary and Kerry.
7
Lots of money spent for nothing. I could have told you this plan would never work. Where was the CIA on this, or did it have no intelligence?
4
The entire situation is a terrible catastrophe, and it has only gotten worse with Russia's aggressive intervention. I feel that both ISIS and Assad are terrible entities, but from a practical standpoint, ISIS is definitely worse because of the nature of their ideology (they have nothing to do with Islam) and the threat they pose beyond Syria and really - to the entire civilized world. They should thus be the priority target over Assad. Having said that, it must be recognized that ISIS is not just a global problem - but a Muslim problem. Muslim forces must be the ones to exterminate ISIS, and looking at the regional actors, Iran has the interests and the actual muscle to take them out. No, they are not a popular country with the west, but they are one of the "least worst" of a host of bad actors here.
Clearly, the United States has no political will to do anything more in the mideast (at least for the duration of the election season), and have ceded our empty claims to leadership in the area. Lets turn our attention to helping the refugees, and let Iran (and Russia) take out ISIS.
Clearly, the United States has no political will to do anything more in the mideast (at least for the duration of the election season), and have ceded our empty claims to leadership in the area. Lets turn our attention to helping the refugees, and let Iran (and Russia) take out ISIS.
23
I disagree. The Russians are willing to do what Obama has prevented our armed forces from accomplishing. The wholesale distruction of ISIS.
Fully 55% of our planes/drones come back to base with bombs still on the rack. Why? We are at war. We need to start behaving as if we intend to win
Fully 55% of our planes/drones come back to base with bombs still on the rack. Why? We are at war. We need to start behaving as if we intend to win
Let us also now also acknowledge that so called 'moderate' rebel, are actually salafi/ikhwan who strategically are on the side of the ISIS. They only defer in tactics. This also explains why Assad and Russians are attacking them first. They are the frontline of ISIS.
6
Putin is making Americans safer, everyday.
5
US has been involved in this conflict for years.
http://www.truth-out.org/progressivepicks/item/33180-wikileaks-reveals-h...
http://www.truth-out.org/progressivepicks/item/33180-wikileaks-reveals-h...
1
Could it be any more difficult training Syrian fighters than it would be controlling the Republican House?
Why bother what happens overseas when Obama administration can't take care of the usa problems
2
A government funded jobs programs ended by President Obama. Failure has a new definition.
5
Funniest thing I've read all day. Perfect..
The dearth of moderate fighters makes one think that this would explain all those young, able Syrian men claiming to be refugees. Why couldn't they have stayed and fought if the government regime is so bad and Isis perhaps worse? Instead they ran away.
3
$500 million. Schoolbooks. Road and bridge repair. College tuition. Affordable Housing. Homeless Shelters. Job training.
$500 million needlessly wasted on mayhem, suffering and death.
$500 million needlessly wasted on mayhem, suffering and death.
6
Well, if it's any consolation, we haven't really added to the suffering and death, or done anything else for that matter
1
mayhem, suffering and death. are what have made america what it is today
Finally, a reasonable realization by the administration that not all is well with the rebels, and its strategy, in Syria. All we did is add fuel to the fire there, and continuing to do so, by letting the Gulf states, Israel and Turkey run our foreign policy. It's time that those who are enraged by Russia's foray in Syria stop reliving the Cold War and look at the facts on the ground, to use military jargon. ISIS is now the penultimate power in most Arab countries and threatening other Muslim states. It was born out of US wars in the region, and some call it a US creation. Is there a way to fight it effectively? How can one fight a foe determined, as the North Vietnamese were and the Taliban are, to succeed? One thing for sure is the rebels weren't determined.
1
Maybe the GOP conservatives who are always ready to shutdown government should do that in these kind of issues where half billion is gone down the drain, rather than issues where government money is spent on welfare programs.
Amit,
You made one true statement. Obama and his "Lead from Behind" blew $ 500 Million, Obama stated many times, "We have no strategy."
Obama is surrounded by the best Military Strategists in the World. Why has Obama put a Strategy in place based on Military Strategy and Intelligence?
Obama makes decisions based strictly on political expediency. Obama has forced retirement to over 300 Generals that have openly disagreed with his feckless "Lead from Behind" strategy.
Obama has now put the future of the Middle East in the hands of Putin. What type of leader would put this pivotal part of the World's Future in the hands of a Communist Government.
I am ashamed of Obama for the way he has let Putin run roughshod over him for years. Obama continues to exhibit that he is "Totally Lacking" any "Leadership Skills"
Putin has played Obama:
1) Obama told Putin there would be dire consequences if he attacked the Crimea
2) Not only did Putin attack The Crimea but defeated The Crimea and is now under (Putin) Russia's Control
3) Obama again tells Putin there would be dire consequences if he attacked The Ukraine
4) Putin has invaded The Ukraine and has almost defeated The Ukraine
5) One of Putin;s Generals goes to an American Embassy in Syria. The General tells the Ambassador the U.S. better not fly bombing missions in Syria.
6) Putin now has told Obama that Syria is a No Fly Zone for any U.S. Jets
7) What is Obama's response? Total silence
You made one true statement. Obama and his "Lead from Behind" blew $ 500 Million, Obama stated many times, "We have no strategy."
Obama is surrounded by the best Military Strategists in the World. Why has Obama put a Strategy in place based on Military Strategy and Intelligence?
Obama makes decisions based strictly on political expediency. Obama has forced retirement to over 300 Generals that have openly disagreed with his feckless "Lead from Behind" strategy.
Obama has now put the future of the Middle East in the hands of Putin. What type of leader would put this pivotal part of the World's Future in the hands of a Communist Government.
I am ashamed of Obama for the way he has let Putin run roughshod over him for years. Obama continues to exhibit that he is "Totally Lacking" any "Leadership Skills"
Putin has played Obama:
1) Obama told Putin there would be dire consequences if he attacked the Crimea
2) Not only did Putin attack The Crimea but defeated The Crimea and is now under (Putin) Russia's Control
3) Obama again tells Putin there would be dire consequences if he attacked The Ukraine
4) Putin has invaded The Ukraine and has almost defeated The Ukraine
5) One of Putin;s Generals goes to an American Embassy in Syria. The General tells the Ambassador the U.S. better not fly bombing missions in Syria.
6) Putin now has told Obama that Syria is a No Fly Zone for any U.S. Jets
7) What is Obama's response? Total silence
1
How quickly we forget. Assad was our ally when we wanted people tortured. Excuse me - that was extraordinary rendition, not torture. Now we want Assad toppled because of his barbaric treatment of his citizens - yet Bush and Cheney are still at large, appearing on TV to tell us how to deal with the Middle East.
It's so hard to find good proxies these days.
It's so hard to find good proxies these days.
5
There is a reason that Third World countries are the way they are and it is not because of any interference from the civilized world, it is because their cultures are dysfunctional and corrupt.
Nothing can or will help these failed cultures except the people themselves.
The fact that young healthy males run from their own countries, leaving the women and children behind, does not leave much hope, but to allow these cowardly men to emigrate First World countries only brings their troubles with them, as they are the root cause of these horrific problems.
Nothing can or will help these failed cultures except the people themselves.
The fact that young healthy males run from their own countries, leaving the women and children behind, does not leave much hope, but to allow these cowardly men to emigrate First World countries only brings their troubles with them, as they are the root cause of these horrific problems.
3
the war is unwinnable for any side. it is therefore best to stay away from an ongoing, internecine feud by adding weapons and gunpowder to the already explosive mix. see also, afghanistan and somalia.
and even if the war were winnable, you can bet that given the extreme violence that has already ensued, there would be "purges" at the end to take revenge, also known as "ethnic cleansing". basically, more dead, tortured and raped people. who would want to be associated with that? russia and iran might not have any qualms, but i hope that US government officials would.
my advice: try announcing the need for negotiation. peace for land.
and even if the war were winnable, you can bet that given the extreme violence that has already ensued, there would be "purges" at the end to take revenge, also known as "ethnic cleansing". basically, more dead, tortured and raped people. who would want to be associated with that? russia and iran might not have any qualms, but i hope that US government officials would.
my advice: try announcing the need for negotiation. peace for land.
1
I like Obama, and think he makes a lot of good decisions. Arming these folks was not one of them. It is, and has been, clear that forces worth backing in the region--meaning they share at least a modicum of our values--have never been numerous enough or strong enough to ever prevail. This is an old civil war that we should stay out of, and I commend Obama for finally coming to his senses. Unfortunately, the old idea that "They need a strong man over there" is pretty accurate, at least for now and the foreseeable future. Bush made the biggest mistake by toppling Saddam. Get out, stay out.
The biggest blunder in history was Obama's premature withdrawal of troops from Iraq against all advice. Obama squandered the victory and the stable Iraq he inherited from Bush and Obama created ISIS, all in one stunning demonstration of breathtaking incompetence
1
Andrew J. Tabler said: “The opposition and their regional backers wanted the program, they just couldn’t accept ISIS as the priority and U.S. ambiguity on taking out Assad”.
Regional backers - Qatar and the United Arab Emirates - were heavily involved in the Libyan conflict, that led to the ouster of Muammar Gaddafi. What do they say to the situation in Libya today? They wash their hands of the consequences and now shift their focus on toppling Bashar al-Assad in Syria. The Sunni Arabs have tons of money, but little political acumen. Therefore the West should not be too enthusiastic about what these regional players indulge in.
Regional backers - Qatar and the United Arab Emirates - were heavily involved in the Libyan conflict, that led to the ouster of Muammar Gaddafi. What do they say to the situation in Libya today? They wash their hands of the consequences and now shift their focus on toppling Bashar al-Assad in Syria. The Sunni Arabs have tons of money, but little political acumen. Therefore the West should not be too enthusiastic about what these regional players indulge in.
4
Saudi Arabia said today that they're sending a load of new weapons to al-Qaeda factions to fight Russia, while Qatar has put out a new call for Sunni Muslims from all over the world to travel to Syria to wage jihad against the Russians and the Shiites. These are the 'allies' we're backing against Assad, who won't take in any refugees because they're not the right kind of Muslim and they don't want to deal with 'emotionally traumatised' victims of war.
1
Wait'll you get a load of what happens to the Kurds, (again). Never get involved in a land war in Asia.
If the Chinese decide to join this party, it is armaggedon, folks. That's fer sure; that's fer DANG sure.
W and Cheney did this. They both belong behind bars. Sometimes I can't believe voters let W get away so clean.
If the Chinese decide to join this party, it is armaggedon, folks. That's fer sure; that's fer DANG sure.
W and Cheney did this. They both belong behind bars. Sometimes I can't believe voters let W get away so clean.
2
"For years, the Americans have found it difficult to identify groups in Syria that they can confidently support."
I
n Syria or anywhere else. Not in the Shah's Iran, not in Vietnam, not the Contras in Nicaragua, not in Afghanistan, and not in Iraq. But we can confidently support Israel to make us hated everywhere else.
I
n Syria or anywhere else. Not in the Shah's Iran, not in Vietnam, not the Contras in Nicaragua, not in Afghanistan, and not in Iraq. But we can confidently support Israel to make us hated everywhere else.
4
For those of you who think that the United States could just pull out of the Middle East, leave it to the Russians to handle, we will save a hunk of money, and everything will be fine.....I got news for you. You may not want to be involved in the Middle East, but the Middle East is coming to you, like it or not. It is only going to get worse, especially with a totally confused, but self-righteous White House.
7
All the more reason to spend the money here. If their coming here then it will be much more difficult for them do defeat an educated, self sufficient group of citizens.
1
Well we finally get the confession, backed by the explicit comments of four U.S. senators, that the CIA was basically defacto training up recruits for Al Qaeda in Syria, and potentially also for ISIS. By indirection once removed, a "single degree of separation" of the CIA effort from the above forces allowed the US regime and its kept media outlets to pretend to its own people that it was not in fact materially strengthening Al Qaeda and possibly also ISIS, as the recruits simply flowed to the most powerful forces on the ground. Ardent advocates such as John McCain certainly understood this, yet, however, unlike Snowden, will never bring the media-coddled McCain on charges of treason in the supposed "global war on terror" (GWOT).
So let's admit finally that the GWOT is a fraud, and begin rolling back the many repressive infringements on out civil liberties that the GWOT was used as justification: Repeal the "Patriot" act, reverse the militarization of the US police, end the universal NSA spying, scale back the TSA and Canadian border police harassment. And so on.
So let's admit finally that the GWOT is a fraud, and begin rolling back the many repressive infringements on out civil liberties that the GWOT was used as justification: Repeal the "Patriot" act, reverse the militarization of the US police, end the universal NSA spying, scale back the TSA and Canadian border police harassment. And so on.
9
Ok, so we tried the McCain/ Graham idea of arming the so-called moderates. It didn't work.
Let's get out of there. Syria is not worth any US lives.
Let's get out of there. Syria is not worth any US lives.
4
They were not fighting ISIS, they were fighting ASSAD FOR ISIS!
1
Obama should stand up to the warmongers and say no more funding of terrorists and mercenaries. He should terminate the warmongers who continue to infest the state and defense departements. And all of US YOU AND ME should continue and escalate our criticisms of the warmongering media.
6
The US has again chosen the wrong side to train and support as it did by not supporting the Afghan Northern Alliance until after September 11th 2001. Women in Kurdish Peshmerga are fighting to defend their homeland while young Syrian men run away from their homeland to Europe. A 19 year old girl called Ceylan Ozalp had to shoot herself in the head to avoid capture by ISIS because she ran out of ammunition. Now the US has joined hands with Turkey that is bombing the Kurdish Peshmerga. If this isn't a signal as to who should be supported then no one knows what it should be.
3
This is all soooo bad. Training Sunni's with Kurds in Turkey?!? Either the Obama admin. thinks the American people are stupid to actually believe it possible or they themselves are stupid. I believe the latter to some extent. Doesn't anyone see that this is a war by proxy? Russia and NATO battling it out in Syria? One side concentrating on the east, the other on the west....one side arming or training so called moderate rebels while the other attacks the moderate rebels and not ISIS. Neither side cares about Syria. this is just a huge power-play between the USA and Russia. Let's hope a cold war ensues and not a full scale war.
3
The disaster of the training and support programs in Iraq, Afghanistan and now Syria are on incompetence in the Pentagon and CIA, not Obama. These over-funded groups have been an utter failure since Carter's Iranian rescue mission down to our first trained corp of Syrians being massacred or kidnapped a month ago by ISIS as they were just arriving...these heathen barbarian killers have better intelligence than the CIA and Pentagon?
But you can't say that. You are fighting both patriotism (that's our fighting troops out there!) and money, i.e. the Military Industrial Complex now owns our Congressmen. This incompetence gets so, so, old!
But you can't say that. You are fighting both patriotism (that's our fighting troops out there!) and money, i.e. the Military Industrial Complex now owns our Congressmen. This incompetence gets so, so, old!
4
You can try to weasel all you want, but the f at remains that this disaster is 110% Obama's! His incompetence is unprecedented
1
When you take half measures you get half baked results. You didn't save us half a billion dollars, you wasted half a billion dollars. Now Russia is going to kill all of the half armed, little trained people (all 5-6 of them) and once the 'insurgency' is suppressed they will go to work on ISIS in Syria and Iraq (at Iraqi request). This administration has ceded any influence we may have had to the Russians and Iranians. If that was Obama's goal then I congratulate him on a well executed policy.
4
Having failed to actually do anything meaningful against the growing ISIS peril, Obama steps back and allows Putin to show how it might be done.
7
Finally the John McCain pushed agenda to arm “moderates” has come to an end. Hairdressers and accountants do not a fighting force make.
The best example was provided by the Iraqi Army’s capitulating to ISIS at Tikrit in 2014. ISIS commandeered all of the Iraqi Army’s US supplied weapons and drove them over the border to Syria.
Be it in Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan, we have never been able to arm and train locals who can function effectively as a military force.
The only way to consistently defeat the “insurgents” is to put our own men in and leave them there permanently, to prevent a new wave of “insurgents” entering the void that would be there when we left. In other words, the Republican cycle of dependency, with the bill footed by the US taxpayer.
The best example was provided by the Iraqi Army’s capitulating to ISIS at Tikrit in 2014. ISIS commandeered all of the Iraqi Army’s US supplied weapons and drove them over the border to Syria.
Be it in Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan, we have never been able to arm and train locals who can function effectively as a military force.
The only way to consistently defeat the “insurgents” is to put our own men in and leave them there permanently, to prevent a new wave of “insurgents” entering the void that would be there when we left. In other words, the Republican cycle of dependency, with the bill footed by the US taxpayer.
3
Not that long ago Obama "Hails" it and now he "Halts" it. One more year to go.
8
Finally, we're admitting that "training moderates" amounted to giving ISIS US weapons. Good.
Now we propose to give ammo and "some" weapons to "Syrian opposition forces on the ground". OK, should work better. OOPS, we're talking about "a conglomeration of 10 to 15 groups of Arab fighters, who would join more than 20,000 Kurdish combatants in an offensive backed by dozens of coalition warplanes". This is a fantasy. They'll work well together and we know this because our military screened the leaders of these groups "to ensure they met standards set by Congress" to approve $500 million last year for the Defense Department to train and equip moderate Syrian rebels. If I weren't laughing so hard I'd cry.
Back the Kurds - they are fighters. Give them the weapons and air support. Let them work out alliances, or not.
Now we propose to give ammo and "some" weapons to "Syrian opposition forces on the ground". OK, should work better. OOPS, we're talking about "a conglomeration of 10 to 15 groups of Arab fighters, who would join more than 20,000 Kurdish combatants in an offensive backed by dozens of coalition warplanes". This is a fantasy. They'll work well together and we know this because our military screened the leaders of these groups "to ensure they met standards set by Congress" to approve $500 million last year for the Defense Department to train and equip moderate Syrian rebels. If I weren't laughing so hard I'd cry.
Back the Kurds - they are fighters. Give them the weapons and air support. Let them work out alliances, or not.
1
Oh yes, brilliant idea to back Arab fighters. Does that give any informed person a clue of what the U.S. is really up to? The writing is on the wall that even a blind man couldn't miss if he tried.
1
Wow ! Imagine if they spent $500 million in the US to train thousands of people who lost their jobs to swindling bankers less than a decade ago. Now, we will provide "lethal aid" with the money that wasn't wasted. Our collective short term memories have forgotten Pope Francis 'recent plea/admonishment about global weapon sales. Isis are definitely a deranged,group of terrorists who have no boundaries and morals and the world would be better without them.
But Syria being bombed by the big players kills innocents and probably creates more radical terrorists down the line. It's all bad.
But Syria being bombed by the big players kills innocents and probably creates more radical terrorists down the line. It's all bad.
3
were trying to adapt their strategy by seeking to identify the leaders of “capable, indigenous forces”
Yes, I remember, this program is very handful and no doubt very successful. LAst time when they had tried it, they created Osama Bin Laden. So as a matter of fact I expect, they will create someone even more capable. Once again.
Yes, I remember, this program is very handful and no doubt very successful. LAst time when they had tried it, they created Osama Bin Laden. So as a matter of fact I expect, they will create someone even more capable. Once again.
4
This is the Arab Spring that Obama was so positively about as he welcomed in the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt with Morsi as the President. (The Muslim Brotherhood who uses democracy like it's toilet paper, a one time use). Obama was so gung ho on the Muslim Brotherhood who systematically burned down Churches, beheaded priests, and murdered Christians. This is not a democracy where the folks in power brutally wipe out the other religions. When the military threw Morsi out, Obama was deeply concerned about the ousting of the first freely elected president. What is wrong with our President when he can stand by and silently say nothing or do nothing about the murder of Christians. ( Coptic Christians were there first btw). Now, he misjudged Syria and the rebel forces. Who here is surprised?
6
'Who here is surprised?'
No one. Those of us who could see the mess that was happening, were not surprised.
The Obama apologizers cannot see this at all, thus they cannot be surprised if they refuse to see that it's happening.
No one. Those of us who could see the mess that was happening, were not surprised.
The Obama apologizers cannot see this at all, thus they cannot be surprised if they refuse to see that it's happening.
1
Steve writes:
"My parents hounded me the whole time I was growing up about making my bed and helping with the dishes. Sometimes they just gave up and did it themselves. It wasn't until I was grown up and away from home that I started doing it consistently because I had no one else to do it for me and guess what - I like clean dishes and a made bed!"
Can you talk to my sons?
"My parents hounded me the whole time I was growing up about making my bed and helping with the dishes. Sometimes they just gave up and did it themselves. It wasn't until I was grown up and away from home that I started doing it consistently because I had no one else to do it for me and guess what - I like clean dishes and a made bed!"
Can you talk to my sons?
1
It sounds a whole lot like they have no strategy and little idea of how to proceed. However, I am mildly amused seeing liberals celebrate the Obama Administration ending the effort and not making a failure into a bigger failure, as thought that were a victory! The soft bigotry of low expectations.
6
Withdrawing arms support for the rebels could be construed as tacit support for the Russian strategy to rid the region once and for all of extremists and fanatics. If so, I'm very proud of the Obama administration's courage, practicality and sense of national - and international - duty. It takes adults not egotists to work toward real resolution despite past frictions.
4
"In Washington, White House and Defense Department officials said the equipment to be provided to the rebel groups would be “basic” in nature and would not include antitank rockets or other high-end equipment that could eventually fall into the hands of groups that commit acts of terrorism against the United States or its allies."
One side - Syria, Iran ( STILL holding 4 Americans, one presumed dead), Russia and Hezbollah
( Hezbolla responsible for murdering 241 US Marines in Lebanon, who oddly enough was taken off the US List for terrorist organizations by Obama)
On the other side, is the group we have supported - Jabhat al-Nusra (JN), the official al-Qaeda (AQ) affiliate in Syria. Yes, Al-Qaeda the people who murdered 3,000 US citizens.
Both sides have already "commit(ted) acts of terrorism against the United States "
One side - Syria, Iran ( STILL holding 4 Americans, one presumed dead), Russia and Hezbollah
( Hezbolla responsible for murdering 241 US Marines in Lebanon, who oddly enough was taken off the US List for terrorist organizations by Obama)
On the other side, is the group we have supported - Jabhat al-Nusra (JN), the official al-Qaeda (AQ) affiliate in Syria. Yes, Al-Qaeda the people who murdered 3,000 US citizens.
Both sides have already "commit(ted) acts of terrorism against the United States "
3
Personal experience here - 8 weeks basic, 8 weeks AIT , 30 days leave and off to SE Asia. Good enough for American troops some years ago. Wonder how long ISIS and Taliban troops train?
How much have we wasted on training our "allies" in Iraq, Afghanistan and now Syria? All with the same results --utter failure! When are we gonna learn? When are the Generals ever going to tell the truth about our allies performance?
Finally, how much have we spent on the Syria training program and who got the money?
How much have we wasted on training our "allies" in Iraq, Afghanistan and now Syria? All with the same results --utter failure! When are we gonna learn? When are the Generals ever going to tell the truth about our allies performance?
Finally, how much have we spent on the Syria training program and who got the money?
4
Where is Hillary's "reset" button?
2
Obama will be VERY unhappy when he sees this on the news with the rest of us.
6
$500 million! For this amount of money we could give most of ISIL fighters Harvard Education.
4
So, sounds like Putin was speaking the truth at the UN after all. How sad. And btw, if it wasn't for the Russian intervention, we would not be hearing about this change of plans in Syria. They would just keep going with their disastrous strategy.
4
Another milestone in the annals of leading from behind.
4
I as I understand we have abandoned throwing money senselessly. Instead, now we will equip and provide strategic assistance to "assemble a group of Sunni tribes", along with Kurds, to fight Sunni ISIS and oppose Shia forces and the regime who are themselves fighting ISIS and various derivates of opposing Sunni forces. By default, this takes us down the road of fighting a proxy, never ending, war with Russia.
I see. It makes perfect sense now.
I see. It makes perfect sense now.
2
This failure is reminiscent of the Bush-era fiasco in trying to train Iraq soldiers in 2003. Paul Bremer sought to create a new Iraqi army from scratch. This of course was under the mistaken notion that Bush's actions in the region would let democracy bloom. But the Pentagon then was unable to acknowledge the failure -- that Iraqis were in truth reluctant to train for a cause they did not believe in. And part of the reason they believed less in their cause was because of a corrupt government we had a hand in installing. What's amazing is that the Pentagon has continued to convince people of the fiction that training programs like this work.
2
It's mind boggling that we are trying to overthrow Assad. Did we not learn what happens when there is a power vacuum after our experience with Libya and Iraq? Those that forget the past are condemned to repeat it. $500 million of taxpayer dollars, not to mention all the Manpads that are now in ISIS' hands to destroy SAA tanks, as well as our domestic airliners (it's really just a matter of time).
4
Was it Thomas Friedman who once said, they don't need to be trained, they've been fighting forever. So they don't do it in our clean, orderly way blah-blah. This is akin to trying to turn sects thinking into Jeffersonian democracy. It doesn't work. What do they teach them at West Point anyways and do we have smart military making the calls or dumb politicians?
4
500 million is a drop in the bucket considering how much the US government spent in Iraq and Afghanistan from 2001 - 2014, which will never be accounted for. The Syrian Proxy War was just another negligent mistake of many. The idea was interesting, to say the least, but the coherent single minded view that Syrians were aligned as one entity to rebel against the government was grossly misunderstood. Was it the Arab Spring or more like the Arab Swamp?
3
In the name of "Democracy" we killed a Tiger in Iraq; and then, a Tiger in Tunisia. Both of which we dealt with for decades, and neither of which had anything to do with 911, or as it turned out with the provocative baiting peddled as WMD.
But for whom did our chest-thumping penchant for Tiger hunts on one pretext or another open doors we now don't seem able to close? For Wolves -- armies of them.
For Wolves, whose zealous goal is neither democracy nor freedoms for the area's inhabitants, but rather, as even a child could have predicted, for inflicting their own brand of rule; and most of all, for our own destruction.
So now the target du jour of our misguided passions -- or perhaps for sundry cloaked agenda we common folk are not privy to -- is Syria.
I can't help but wonder though, is there something these Mid-East Tigers fathom(ed) about their peoples that perhaps we never can, or ever will?
But for whom did our chest-thumping penchant for Tiger hunts on one pretext or another open doors we now don't seem able to close? For Wolves -- armies of them.
For Wolves, whose zealous goal is neither democracy nor freedoms for the area's inhabitants, but rather, as even a child could have predicted, for inflicting their own brand of rule; and most of all, for our own destruction.
So now the target du jour of our misguided passions -- or perhaps for sundry cloaked agenda we common folk are not privy to -- is Syria.
I can't help but wonder though, is there something these Mid-East Tigers fathom(ed) about their peoples that perhaps we never can, or ever will?
2
$500,000,000 for up to 5000 Arab fighters. That's $100,000 per fighter who have no education, cannot read, cannot write. Does anybody in the military think about the fact that these $500 million slush funds are American taxpayer dollars?
4
This is exactly what happened in Viet Nam. We eventually had to go in and do the job ourselves, to the loss of 50,000 Americans. This time we're not going in, so we'll just have to wait and see what Mr. Putin accomplishes. I'm sure he has the world's interests at heart.
4
The world, including these rebels, expects that ultimately the USA will once again put on its Mighty Mouse uniform and go over there and do their job for them. And why wouldn't they, after the precedents we've set in Afghanistan, Iraq, Vietnam, Korea, etc.
My parents hounded me the whole time I was growing up about making my bed and helping with the dishes. Sometimes they just gave up and did it themselves. It wasn't until I was grown up and away from home that I started doing it consistently because I had no one else to do it for me and guess what - I like clean dishes and a made bed!
No more American blood and lives spent in a part of the world where people have been butchering one another for 8,000 years.
My parents hounded me the whole time I was growing up about making my bed and helping with the dishes. Sometimes they just gave up and did it themselves. It wasn't until I was grown up and away from home that I started doing it consistently because I had no one else to do it for me and guess what - I like clean dishes and a made bed!
No more American blood and lives spent in a part of the world where people have been butchering one another for 8,000 years.
2
Wow, everybody is on agreement on this failed program and The President has abandoned its effort. Not a sign of weakness but being smart. Pulling out of the Middle East would not be a sign of weakness, but a sign that we have no American interest there. Putin is betting that the US will make a mistake, so lets surprise him and do nothing and pull out.
55
So Ron, at the same time we have "no interests" in the Middle East are you suggesting we get the crude oil we use by the billions of barrels, form the Middle East, from some other source? Got an oil well in your backyard we haven't tapped yet?
"Putin is betting that the US will make a mistake, so lets surprise him and do nothing and pull out. "
Who's to say that pulling out doesn't end up being the mistake?
Who's to say that pulling out doesn't end up being the mistake?
1
We've been waiting 7.5 years for Obama to pull out of these ridiculous wars. Smart would have been to do it in his first year and work on real issues.
1
Are you confused by U.S. mideast policy?
First a previous administration is vehemently criticized for forcibly removing a middle east dictator but then the current administration criticizes another nation for supporting a middle east dictator. Both dictators considered to be unfriendly to the U.S. Is there a catch 22 here or is my government just inept?
First a previous administration is vehemently criticized for forcibly removing a middle east dictator but then the current administration criticizes another nation for supporting a middle east dictator. Both dictators considered to be unfriendly to the U.S. Is there a catch 22 here or is my government just inept?
2
Better late than never. I am grateful that there is still enough courage in the administration to publicly acknowledge that arming the Syrian rebels was not productive. Had Hillary the hawk had her way, we'd be sending more troops rather than withdrawing arms support. Now, if the administration can just either stand aside or help Russia rid the region of problems, Syria and Iraq can finally stabilize, and Europeans can breath a sigh of relief that they will no longer be burdened with waves more of asylum seekers.
i don't think any of us know what is the best strategy for the USA with regard to middle east policy. my only anger is toward congress which just passed a bloated $612 billion defense budget that includes weapons even the pentagon does not want. i am so disgusted with the defense pork and waste on failed endeavors like that outlined in this article.
1
Now how about getting back the hundreds of millions the rapacious contractors walked away with? Probably everyone knew from the start that the thing didn't make sense but they went ahead anyhow because there was lots of money available for contractors and lots of ex-military to sop it up. A look inside the Central Command will surely find a corrupt contracting system that makes lots of money irrespective of success or failure. In these circumstances contractors and their ex-military hired help gain mainly not from success but from prolongation of the conflict, which is what we've had.
3
We should never have been in the business of arming and training Assad's opposition. It is good that we are out. We have no real strategic interests in Syria. Most of what we are seeing is blowback from Bush's 2nd Gulf War, but that only upset an already unstable apple cart that was 500 years in the making. National Security should be one of the president's primary goals. National Security in this case would have been better served by staying out of the mess entirely and using the 'peace dividend' to rebuild America's infrastructure.
28
Why did Hillary Clinton as Secretary of State under President Obama commit the U.S. to the removal of Assad? Why did she and the current administration criticize a former administration for forcibly removing a tyrannical mid east dictator while militarily supporting the removal of another tyrannical mid east dictator? Did she like Saddam but does not like Assad? If affirmative why? When in the current administration's opinion should a tyrannical dictator be removed and when does he get to stay? The answer is when Russia says so.
4
We are long past could have should have would have. The US Commander-In-Chief enjoys wide latitude in foreign policy. Maybe there are no good options. The American public might be ready to hear that plainly stated. But foreign policy initiatives that accomplish nothing other than to the appearance of doing something are counterproductive and benefit no one, not even Obama's perceived effectiveness. It seems he wanted to stay completely out of Syria until Isis reared its ugly head. He should have resisted political and public pressure and stayed out while maneuvering the Russians in.
It's been an embarrassing misguided process from the beginning by the Obama administration. Early on we couldn't decide which Syrian rebels to arm and fund, so we gave huge amounts of arms & ammo to someone, much of which ended up with the bad guys. Then the U.S. backed off its "Red Line" ultimatum. Then we put a half billion dollars or so training fewer than 100 hopefully anti-Assad fighters?!!
It's no great wisdom to cease and desist from this blindman's blundering. It's just finally recognizing the obvious.
In the meantime, President Putin, playing decisively for Russia's interests, has moved into a dominant mid-East position, firmly pushing the U.S. out of the way.
Not sure what to conclude--we just messed up really big, and the outcome may be hugely adverse to U.S. interests.
It's no great wisdom to cease and desist from this blindman's blundering. It's just finally recognizing the obvious.
In the meantime, President Putin, playing decisively for Russia's interests, has moved into a dominant mid-East position, firmly pushing the U.S. out of the way.
Not sure what to conclude--we just messed up really big, and the outcome may be hugely adverse to U.S. interests.
6
Better late than never but a sensible action, nevertheless, long overdue. Let us stop arming even those vetted (??)leaders. Russia has foolishly entered into the Middle East to support their protegé, Assad. Leave them, Russia, Assad and Iran to fight the ISIS. That will prevent Assad from decimating his own people.
And on a selfish note we can do a lot with the billions ( B is deliberate to M ) to improve our country and the lives of it's citizens. Our societal responsibilities can be met with no cuts in funding or extra funding needed to keep our social programs solvent for future generations. Besides investing in our own people with education, jobs, infrastructure, we can become the great country again, whom the world looks up to and envies. The only malcontents would be the ones in the industry for making arms, their contractors, their lobbyists and above all those warmonger Politicians. Forget about them because they have already amassed unbelievable wealth. Let our Country be known for diplomacy than as an arms' exporter.
And on a selfish note we can do a lot with the billions ( B is deliberate to M ) to improve our country and the lives of it's citizens. Our societal responsibilities can be met with no cuts in funding or extra funding needed to keep our social programs solvent for future generations. Besides investing in our own people with education, jobs, infrastructure, we can become the great country again, whom the world looks up to and envies. The only malcontents would be the ones in the industry for making arms, their contractors, their lobbyists and above all those warmonger Politicians. Forget about them because they have already amassed unbelievable wealth. Let our Country be known for diplomacy than as an arms' exporter.
Regime change should only be attempted after an viable alternative is identified with high confidence. If such alternatives do exist, they could do the regime change themselves with some support from world communities. Regime change can only come from inside not imposed by outsider forces. The existence of opposition or rebel groups do not mean they are viable alternatives for governing.
While I am a fervent supporter for democratic changes, force regime change without viable alternative is not help people there.
Look at the successful regime change in Philippine, it was driven by internal force.
While I am a fervent supporter for democratic changes, force regime change without viable alternative is not help people there.
Look at the successful regime change in Philippine, it was driven by internal force.
22
Arab spring was all about regime change and you see how that turned out. A complete failure everywhere it was tried and it cost the lives of 4 Americans in Benghazi and they have lied repeatedly about what happened. Some little guy went to jail for nothing more than posting a video on youtube that Obama decided to use for a scapegoat. UNREAL
1
I'm not sure how much of the $500 million was actually spent, but I can tell you with absolute certainty that probably half of whatever we did spend went directly into the pockets of whomever we were dumb enough to entrust it to. Problem is, given our "buy now, pay later" military mentality, it's just considered the cost of doing business. Not to mention that there's always more money whenever you need it. What's especially telling is that even though the program is considered a failure, "A senior defense official said that the remaining training will be much more minimal than the previous program." Yes, by all means, let's continue funding a failure. Good God! The stupidity, the waste and the hubris is literally Brobdingnagian.
1
This is a very good thing. Without the need for Middle East oil, the Siren and the Achilles Heel of our foreign policy in that region for almost 75 years, we can leave them to draw their national boundaries for themselves. The West has been nothing but treacherous and inept from beginning to end.
1
The Community Organizer in Chief is unable to formulate a coherent, effective foreign policy within the community of nations. Seems a community organizer never was qualified to be President of the United States.
4
Finally some news that heartened. The US government has recovered the reason, ceasing to sustain the support of opponents of Assad, encouraging the development of ISIS. $ 500 mill. of dollars saved. Just help the Kurdish forces which have proved the most effective against monsters of ISIS. It now remains to stop the CIA preventing them to continue to support the Syrian regular forces.
Peace can be achieved using reason and wisdom. You can no longer think of getting it as launching a nuke in 1945 in Japan. Now the whole world is involved and requires governments intelligent, prepared, collaborative for it. Russia and the USA, are able, working closely together, to prepare a world of peace.
Peace can be achieved using reason and wisdom. You can no longer think of getting it as launching a nuke in 1945 in Japan. Now the whole world is involved and requires governments intelligent, prepared, collaborative for it. Russia and the USA, are able, working closely together, to prepare a world of peace.
Yet another example of failed Obama Administration policy on so many levels.
4
Looks like we've just drawn a 'red line' through the hearts of the Syrians who thought us allies. So sad.
3
Never have the lives of so many been destroyed and messed up by the idle tinkerings of so few.
Half a billion dollars wasted in a harebrained plan to train and arm a non-existent "moderate" opposition in the Syrian madness.
It could have been far better for the economy and for the American people if the US government had simply transferred 1600 dollars in cash to each man, woman and child living in the USA today.
It could have been far better for the economy and for the American people if the US government had simply transferred 1600 dollars in cash to each man, woman and child living in the USA today.
1
According to many accounts, the "fighters" we trained, simply handed their weapons over to the Al Nustra Front when they entered the "hot zone" in Syria. Who knows, maybe ISIS or Al Queada sent them to be "trained" by us, just for this purpose. And, let's not forget that, as you read this, ISIS is driving around in the Humvees we shipped into the Middle Eastern theater of war.
And who knows anything about all of the "refugees" that are pouring into Germany? Remember, Germany was the country that Muhammad Ata set himself up in, before flying not just to, but "into" Manhattan.
And yes, the United States will be letting some of these refugees into our country - will it be, as the late Yogi Berra used to say, "DeJa Vu all over again"?
We should do the smart thing, and end, not just this program, but our entire Middle East effort - we have been doing our nation more harm than good; our troops have suffered, our budget has been busted, and the disaster that has taken place on the ground, will make the locals hate our country for a thousand years.
It's time to "Ivan" try and do it. We can take turns, just as we did in Afghanistan - only this time, we went first.
And who knows anything about all of the "refugees" that are pouring into Germany? Remember, Germany was the country that Muhammad Ata set himself up in, before flying not just to, but "into" Manhattan.
And yes, the United States will be letting some of these refugees into our country - will it be, as the late Yogi Berra used to say, "DeJa Vu all over again"?
We should do the smart thing, and end, not just this program, but our entire Middle East effort - we have been doing our nation more harm than good; our troops have suffered, our budget has been busted, and the disaster that has taken place on the ground, will make the locals hate our country for a thousand years.
It's time to "Ivan" try and do it. We can take turns, just as we did in Afghanistan - only this time, we went first.
2
"And yes, the United States will be letting some of these refugees into our country - will it be, as the late Yogi Berra used to say, "DeJa Vu all over again"?"
The Syrian refuges are 80% men, age 18-40. We can not vet who is a good guy or a bad guy, as there is no viable government left to ask the question of. But Obama wants to take in 200,000 of them into the United States. Isn't the President's number 1 priority the safeguard of Americans?
The Syrian refuges are 80% men, age 18-40. We can not vet who is a good guy or a bad guy, as there is no viable government left to ask the question of. But Obama wants to take in 200,000 of them into the United States. Isn't the President's number 1 priority the safeguard of Americans?
1
Thank God!
At $100 million per fighter, that initiative could add up to some real money.
At $100 million per fighter, that initiative could add up to some real money.
8
Wow...Obama couldn't manage a weenie roast even if he was using his own weenie. ...and with the changes he's allowed to take place in our military, what are we gonna do? Go over and scratch their eyes out? ...meeoooow!
4
Definition of insanity; doing the same thing over again and again and expecting a different outcome
5
When our whole culture is about war, that means all the regular American people are left out of any kind of social peaceful world. Carter and Fallon are just another extention of the Bush Axis with his counterpart in Britain, that were both sued by the International Court as War Criminals. It is the same story, different leaders, that goes on and on, and our government spends tax payer money in all their covert deals, with no thoughts that all the money is NOT theirs. We have a sick government. Peace not war.
4
Unfortunately, the United States was unable to marshal this kind of support to New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina. Guaranteed, there would have been a better return on the dollar. It's still not to late to make up for that horribly tragic episode of negligence and abandonment in the history of our country, and make sure it never happens again to our citizens. Send our money home, and leave this mess for Putin to manage and fund.
3
The US Government did not train rebels, they trained TERRORISTS.
Russia just ended that nonsense by finally coming to the rescue of their ally, and the US raised the white flag.
Russia just ended that nonsense by finally coming to the rescue of their ally, and the US raised the white flag.
5
Let us step back and let Russia lead. We are no longer a super power. Those days are over.
2
Pathetic that I took this long to realize that training these individuals is not in our best interest and ineffective, to boot.
Bring our money home. We need some nation building right here.
Bring our money home. We need some nation building right here.
7
Just hearing that "the Central Intelligence Agency runs a separate program to train and arm selected groups" sends chills down my spine. Now we know who will launch the next attack against us.
7
Another failure. Another example of how Obama, the above-average candidate, translated into Obama, the below-average president.
In many ways Obama is a perfect example of the Peter principle - an outstanding candidate with great rhetorical skills, and the ability to feel what voters wanted to be promised- is promoted to Presidency based on those skills- a position where over time there is real accountability and a set of challenges which require a completely different skill set.
Once enough time passed and you can't blame stuff on the guy before you, or tell people that salvation is just around the corner, all the air went out of the room and you are left with someone who looked out of his league, and not exceptionally skillful, or motivated about his job.
Obama's overall foreign policy attitude seemed to be; let me get through the presidency without major mess up and try to transfer the problematic issues, like Syria, and the results of hasty messy exits in Iraq and Afghanistan, to the next guy. That's not leadership. In the end it is fell short and things are collapsing around him at an astonishing rate.
In many ways Obama is a perfect example of the Peter principle - an outstanding candidate with great rhetorical skills, and the ability to feel what voters wanted to be promised- is promoted to Presidency based on those skills- a position where over time there is real accountability and a set of challenges which require a completely different skill set.
Once enough time passed and you can't blame stuff on the guy before you, or tell people that salvation is just around the corner, all the air went out of the room and you are left with someone who looked out of his league, and not exceptionally skillful, or motivated about his job.
Obama's overall foreign policy attitude seemed to be; let me get through the presidency without major mess up and try to transfer the problematic issues, like Syria, and the results of hasty messy exits in Iraq and Afghanistan, to the next guy. That's not leadership. In the end it is fell short and things are collapsing around him at an astonishing rate.
49
Jack M, your "appraisal" is wholly lacking in rigor. You skim the surface of Obama and his decisions with the same fluff you accuse this president of possessing. This is exactly what the world looks like when a prior president runs the US military and Treasury and respect and credibility into the ground and the American people throw up their hands and say, "We don't want to be the world's policeman anymore." You remind me of John McCain who would have us in at least half a dozen wars right now - if he were president. But, of course, he wouldn't have had such a policy since he would be subject to the same set of circumstances facing this president. And the American people would simply not permit it. Early withdrawal from Iraq and Afghanistan? What's so early about 14 years? Someone else here said it would only take about 2,000 "special forces" to defeat ISIS. Perhaps you believe this fairytale too. It's all so easy when you have no real decisions to make much less be accountable for them.
1
You are making a lot of assumptions as if they are facts.No one knows what another person is thinking to assume so and state it as fact is a bad idea.
Good try Jack, making it Obama‘s fault. He tried something and it didn‘t work, how dare he. Please share what your comment would have been had no training been attempted.
By the way the exit from Iraq was not hasty, and we‘re still in Afghanistan on certain projects.
By the way the exit from Iraq was not hasty, and we‘re still in Afghanistan on certain projects.
Another example of how liberals think they can get someone else to do the heavy lifting for them, like Obamacare, heavy taxes, and spending productive people money of their supporters... Gee, it failed? Another example of how Liberals just don't understand any point of view but their own. I mean really, this administration inability to understand the wants and needs of those that oppose it has always confused it... From the Republicans to the Islamists...
3
@dpbisme: "Gee, it failed? Another example of how Liberals just don't understand any point of view but their own."
Actually, what failed is the well-intentioned attempt to contain the monster that was created when the Bush/Cheney regime blew up the region. What don't Conservatives get about that?
Actually, what failed is the well-intentioned attempt to contain the monster that was created when the Bush/Cheney regime blew up the region. What don't Conservatives get about that?
1
Too many diverse tribes, motives, goals and intentions of the limited number of fighters we are supporting which only weaken efforts and consequences. Compare that to the concentrated efforts and limited well-defined objectives of Putin, Assad, and ISIS. Until those imbalances can be changed, if even possible, most likely the status quo will remain or worsen.
2
America needs to find much better motivated honest brave "allies" in any foreign ethnic sectarian socioeconomic political educational civil war that it chooses to enter. While humbly humanely recognizing that there is no military solution to these futile foolish wars.
The military-industrial complex is the only segment of American society that benefits and profits from forever war. Americans and their families who are among the 0.75% of Americans who have volunteered to serve in a uniformed American armed force since 9/11/01 are the only Americans who pay the cost of war in blood, sweat and tears. While the American tax payer treasury is pillaged by the likes of barbarian clucking war hen robber baron corrupt crony capitalists like Dick Cheney, Donald Trump and Carly Fiorina.
The military-industrial complex is the only segment of American society that benefits and profits from forever war. Americans and their families who are among the 0.75% of Americans who have volunteered to serve in a uniformed American armed force since 9/11/01 are the only Americans who pay the cost of war in blood, sweat and tears. While the American tax payer treasury is pillaged by the likes of barbarian clucking war hen robber baron corrupt crony capitalists like Dick Cheney, Donald Trump and Carly Fiorina.
2
Could this mean that we're finally beginning to rethink our obsession with pouring countless billions of taxpayer dollars down bottomless foreign ratholes? Or, more likely, does it merely mean that we've become bored with this particular rathole but will soon start slavering over another?
6
It appears that in the ME the People will follow whoever is the toughest even if it means changing sides multiple times. We naïvely thought the Arab Spring would result in a western style democracy, but what it did was create chaos and a leadership vacuum ripe for ISIS. Now we want to get rid of ISIS. Putin understands this mentality and is making his moves based on a history of similar Russian tactics. To Putin, all rebels are the enemy, not just ISIS. The more brutal the attacks against rebel groups, the more successful he will be in helping Assad gain back territory presently held by both American supported rebel groups and ISIS. Once the Syrian government is firmly back in control, ISIS will fade into the woodwork or take their fight elsewhere. Assad may be eased out (given asylum in Russia), but you can be sure the person he will be replaced with will be pro-Russian all the way.
Obama is doing the right thing by staying clear. This is a war that we cannot win as strategies for stability in the Middle East are totally foreign to our way of thinking. Even as policemen with boots on the ground we will always be considered the enemy by most that live there. As soon as we leave (no matter how long we stay), all that we have built will be torn down as they return to what they are used to, authoritarian rule.
The only failed policy here is deciding to get involved.
Obama is doing the right thing by staying clear. This is a war that we cannot win as strategies for stability in the Middle East are totally foreign to our way of thinking. Even as policemen with boots on the ground we will always be considered the enemy by most that live there. As soon as we leave (no matter how long we stay), all that we have built will be torn down as they return to what they are used to, authoritarian rule.
The only failed policy here is deciding to get involved.
Should fire those who gave aid to rebels ,500 million where did they get it borrowed
1
It is good President Obama has admitted defeated U.S. foreign policies and he is now willing to save American taxpayers money.
2
On the world stage, Obama stands a clown.
5
In your opinion.
1
In other words, President Obama offers to President Putin an absolute rendition on Syria.
The Syrian Partisans (not rebels please, they are rebels for Assad) were the only mean to make a land combat in addition NATO allies' now doubtful airstrikes.
Canceling training and armaments to Syrian Partisans, USA decided with Russia to leave Syria to Assad.
At this point the tail of USA opposing Russia has been replaced by the reality of a USA-Russia agreement, while the NATO allies airstrikes are now joust theater.
The Syrian Partisans (not rebels please, they are rebels for Assad) were the only mean to make a land combat in addition NATO allies' now doubtful airstrikes.
Canceling training and armaments to Syrian Partisans, USA decided with Russia to leave Syria to Assad.
At this point the tail of USA opposing Russia has been replaced by the reality of a USA-Russia agreement, while the NATO allies airstrikes are now joust theater.
1
"The Obama administration has ended the Pentagon’s $500 million program to train and equip Syrian rebel..."
Good. Because the last time we successfully trained Islamic rebels worked out really well for us.
Good. Because the last time we successfully trained Islamic rebels worked out really well for us.
8
500 million dollars that could have been spent on Americans in need of healthcare. That could have been spent on American infrastructure. That could have educated children.
We threw it down a hole in a literally god forsaken desert.
We threw it down a hole in a literally god forsaken desert.
8
At least finally, the Obama administration may be dropping the magical thinking w/regard to the middle east.
Keeping in mind the tragic MSF bombing in Kunduz, I hope to state the obvious w/regard to giving rebel leaders the power to call down airstrikes:
1) It would be better if airstrikes called down by rebels are conducted by foreign (possibly Turkish) air force, rather than by the US, so that in the case of collateral damage, US credibility isn't further mired in this conflict.
2) make sure airstrikes aren't accidentally or deliberately used to target civilian targets
3) make sure airstrikes aren't used to kill a rebel's rivals
US foreign policy has to define a realistic, humanitarian end scenario that is actually in American interests (rather than Saudi/Turkish/Israeli interests) -- this has been the flaw in US policy all along. Saudis want Sunni theocracy, and the Turks want ISIS to grind down the Kurds, and Israelis don't mind Syria burning.
Just wanting Assad to step down, without ensuring that Syria doesn't fall into the hands of islamic extremists or Al Queda, is obviously unrealistic.
There are critical questions that must be answered:
1) Assad be convinced to step down?
2) the secular government remain strong rather than collapse?
3) rebels join the secular government to combat ISIS?
4) the Russians go along with this?
That's a lot to hope for. Otherwise, the Russians are taking point with plan B (Assad).
Keeping in mind the tragic MSF bombing in Kunduz, I hope to state the obvious w/regard to giving rebel leaders the power to call down airstrikes:
1) It would be better if airstrikes called down by rebels are conducted by foreign (possibly Turkish) air force, rather than by the US, so that in the case of collateral damage, US credibility isn't further mired in this conflict.
2) make sure airstrikes aren't accidentally or deliberately used to target civilian targets
3) make sure airstrikes aren't used to kill a rebel's rivals
US foreign policy has to define a realistic, humanitarian end scenario that is actually in American interests (rather than Saudi/Turkish/Israeli interests) -- this has been the flaw in US policy all along. Saudis want Sunni theocracy, and the Turks want ISIS to grind down the Kurds, and Israelis don't mind Syria burning.
Just wanting Assad to step down, without ensuring that Syria doesn't fall into the hands of islamic extremists or Al Queda, is obviously unrealistic.
There are critical questions that must be answered:
1) Assad be convinced to step down?
2) the secular government remain strong rather than collapse?
3) rebels join the secular government to combat ISIS?
4) the Russians go along with this?
That's a lot to hope for. Otherwise, the Russians are taking point with plan B (Assad).
2
Poor pawns. I don't believe that we train and arm rebels, in situations like this, with any expectation or hope that a particular group will win. We arm and train unhappy people to destabilize a regime by robbing it of the ability to provide safety. Angry, armed malcontents act violently which demands a violent response from the government. This creates a cycle of violence which inevitably ensnares innocents which in turn destroys trust in the government and creates unrest and strife. If all works according to plan, the target government is unable to maintain order and the regime falls. Then, in theory, we are able exert our influence from the ground up as, hopefully, a new order is established. So, the real take home message? That free gun is not because we believe in you and what you stand for. We are not trying to protect your rights and certainly not you. Your government is, for some reason, an obstacle to us. We want to remove that obstacle. You are a tool, a pawn. And sometimes, it becomes clear that we can't win a game so we leave. Nothing personal- after all, we don't even know who you are.
4
How's that "don't do stupid (stuff)" working out for you, Mr. Obama?
Resigned inaction is not a foreign policy.
Resigned inaction is not a foreign policy.
4
Where is your evidence that action produces better results than inaction. We lost the Vietnam War, now we trade with Vietnam. So what?
1
If you go back to the end of WWII, it can be seen that very few military adventures by the U.S. have been successful.
The 1990-1 Gulf War was a success, primarily because once the stated objective was achieved the U.S. stopped.
The Kosovo War of 1998-99 could be seen as successful in that some minor league thugs running Serbia were eliminated, but that was really a NATO effort, and the amount of force used is still controversial.
Of course Reagan's invasion of mighty Grenada in the Caribbean (1983) was an all out victory. So there's a plus.
But W's invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, and now this fight against ISIS (but not too much so that Assad wins) - put them in the column with Korea (no winner) and Vietnam (loss) - all failures.
The 1990-1 Gulf War was a success, primarily because once the stated objective was achieved the U.S. stopped.
The Kosovo War of 1998-99 could be seen as successful in that some minor league thugs running Serbia were eliminated, but that was really a NATO effort, and the amount of force used is still controversial.
Of course Reagan's invasion of mighty Grenada in the Caribbean (1983) was an all out victory. So there's a plus.
But W's invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, and now this fight against ISIS (but not too much so that Assad wins) - put them in the column with Korea (no winner) and Vietnam (loss) - all failures.
4
Perhaps he'll use the funds to force gun removal from law-abiding citizens. SInce the NYT is a progressive rag, the lefty journalists will push this as well.
3
Did you THINK about this post before you sent it?
1
You have to admit. The Russians have bigger balls than the Western coalition when it comes to combating ISIS. The move is such a slap in the face to President Obama, The White House, Pentagon, and even NATO. #HatsOff
3
On the contrary: Putin, be our guest!
They do? Because they fired some cruise missiles?
So, you a sucker for the "mine's bigger than yours" line of thinking?
Sad.
So, you a sucker for the "mine's bigger than yours" line of thinking?
Sad.
1
Typo in the article's accompanying graphic:
"Pro-government forces pushed north along several routes Thursday in a heavily contested region of northeastern Syria."
Should read "northwestern." As the Times points out, at great length, the Russians really aren't devoting much attention -- not yet, at least, to "northeast" Syria, where ISIS is. They're focused on northwest Syria, where the non-ISIS rebels are.
"Pro-government forces pushed north along several routes Thursday in a heavily contested region of northeastern Syria."
Should read "northwestern." As the Times points out, at great length, the Russians really aren't devoting much attention -- not yet, at least, to "northeast" Syria, where ISIS is. They're focused on northwest Syria, where the non-ISIS rebels are.
2
Our government is embarrassingly amazing.
If you read the headline, you ought to think this is good news.
Then you read the fine print, and realize it is just more hot air.
We are no longer recruiting, however we are still training. We will not get any more ‘moderate rebels’, we will just train them to call in air strikes.
Having read the whole diatribe about the bombing of the hospital this past week, it clearly stated that only US soldiers can call in air strikes. So why are we training ‘moderate rebels’ to call in air strikes? Air strikes against who?
The goal is also as ambiguous as usual. The article reads that we are training these people to attack ISIS, but it also says our goal is to remove Asad. So which is which? And if we admit in public that we are after Asad, then it amounts to a declaration of war against him.
And WHY ARE IN SYRIA ANYWAY?????
The Pentagon should simply get out of Syria all together. there is no purpose for us being there, risking WWIII over ‘democracy in Syria’. They did not even ask us to help, we just showed up.
Please US Government, please stop! Get out of there. NOW.
If you read the headline, you ought to think this is good news.
Then you read the fine print, and realize it is just more hot air.
We are no longer recruiting, however we are still training. We will not get any more ‘moderate rebels’, we will just train them to call in air strikes.
Having read the whole diatribe about the bombing of the hospital this past week, it clearly stated that only US soldiers can call in air strikes. So why are we training ‘moderate rebels’ to call in air strikes? Air strikes against who?
The goal is also as ambiguous as usual. The article reads that we are training these people to attack ISIS, but it also says our goal is to remove Asad. So which is which? And if we admit in public that we are after Asad, then it amounts to a declaration of war against him.
And WHY ARE IN SYRIA ANYWAY?????
The Pentagon should simply get out of Syria all together. there is no purpose for us being there, risking WWIII over ‘democracy in Syria’. They did not even ask us to help, we just showed up.
Please US Government, please stop! Get out of there. NOW.
11
Obama was never truly interested in stopping ISIS. Instead, his goal from day 1 was regime change in Damascus. Clearly, he hasn't paid attention to the aftermath of his regime change strategy in Libya.
22
His regime change strategy? I kinda thought it was the Libyans who threw out Khadaffi. Should we have propped him up? Or let the chips fall... O h yes we could have tried to insure that the revolution that go rid of him chose the right leadership, but how would we have done that. The notion that with the right "strategy" we could have made all of the outsomes we would like to see happen. This tends to be after the fact backseat driving at its' best.
A sensible move to rescind a program that had never worked and a sensible first step toward an exit from combat in this chaotic conflict. Let's hope this is followed swiftly by the grounding of our bombers and reevaluation of how we can do the most good in Syria.
2
Obama's foreign policy:
1) train local forces - FAILURE!
2) drone and airstrikes - EPIC FAILURE! (destruction of MSF hospital and other civilians)
3) "reset" with Russian - FAILURE!
4) withdrawal of US troops - FAILURE! (rise of ISIS)
It is time to move past President Obama. The next President must learn from the mistakes of the predecessors (both Obama and Bush) and make better decisions. We have learned that unilateral war or appeasement are not successful, so it's time for something different.
BTW, that is why it is dangerous to have presidents with zero foreign policy experience!
1) train local forces - FAILURE!
2) drone and airstrikes - EPIC FAILURE! (destruction of MSF hospital and other civilians)
3) "reset" with Russian - FAILURE!
4) withdrawal of US troops - FAILURE! (rise of ISIS)
It is time to move past President Obama. The next President must learn from the mistakes of the predecessors (both Obama and Bush) and make better decisions. We have learned that unilateral war or appeasement are not successful, so it's time for something different.
BTW, that is why it is dangerous to have presidents with zero foreign policy experience!
11
The U.S. military has a sorry record in its repeated and unsuccessful attempts to train and build up local forces in troubled nations such as Iraq and Afghanistan. We should not waste more money on it and apparently learned nothing from our experience in Vietnam. Let the Russians wreck their economy in Syria. They already have more distractions than they can afford in the Ukraine, Chechnya, Crimea and at home.
I would add to that why it is dangerous to have presidents with zero military experience.
1
Agreed. President Obama's inaction made a significant contribution to the suffering of Syrian people. Syria is not very likely to be united under one flag again.
From Pres. Bush we learned the unintended consequences of an overly interventionist policy in the Middle East, and from Pres. Obama we are learning about the unintended consequences of the opposite.
5
"The Obama administration has ended the Pentagon’s $500 million program to train and equip Syrian rebels, administration officials said on Friday". I don't think so. I think the Russians killed them. Obama failed missed the basic training most American men get on the school yard. We will be lucky if, in his remaining 15 months, he doesn't get us all killed.
8
I believe we had Americans there too... And sadly, they were killed by the Russia airstrikes.
"A senior defense official said that the remaining training “will be much more minimal” than the previous program."
HA! HA! That is hilarious! Does that mean it's going to be 3 or 4 trainees, rather than 4 or 5?
HA! HA! That is hilarious! Does that mean it's going to be 3 or 4 trainees, rather than 4 or 5?
12
US: Gentleman, thank you for your participation. Unfortunately we are disbanding the Program in light of recent events.
Rebels: But, the Russians... We are helpless against their weapons. What can we do?
US: Pray.
Rebels: But, the Russians... We are helpless against their weapons. What can we do?
US: Pray.
8
Like the ancient House of Bourbon, the United States never forgets anything and never learns everything. The notion of training indigenous armies to fight causes we support but they do not has failed every time. We have no national interest in this complex, multifaceted and incoherent Syrian conflict which will continue for many years. The only reason we are involved is because of President Obama's regrettable statement that Assad must go. There is no alternative to Assad. We should get out before the Neocons get what has always made them comfortable, renewal of the Cold War with Russia.
20
Excellent comment. I have no clue why some will do anything to revive proxy wars with Russia. I'm afraid that history might indeed repeat and we might even collude with ISIS to fight Russia/Assad.
1
"The program cost us about $100K per a fighter."
Actually, it was about $100M each -- but what are a few zeroes, after all, when you're talking about such vast sums?
Actually, it was about $100M each -- but what are a few zeroes, after all, when you're talking about such vast sums?
17
Great news....maybe the money used for this illicit military action could be used helping Americans educate themselves and get proper job training to help build our economy.
12
There is NO military solution to Syria's problems.
There is no MILITARY solution to Syria's problems.
There is no military SOLUTION to Syria's problems.
Candidates running for elected office in 2016 should be asked which phrase best summarizes their stance. Extra credit given if they choose "all of the above."
There is no MILITARY solution to Syria's problems.
There is no military SOLUTION to Syria's problems.
Candidates running for elected office in 2016 should be asked which phrase best summarizes their stance. Extra credit given if they choose "all of the above."
22
There are few military solutions for anything when the enemy knows in advance that a "leader" like Barack "Hamlet" Obama will a) never deploy sufficient resources in support of a realistic military object overseas or b) delay so long as to make the investment useless.
"Sufficient resources" in the Syrian case had to include creation of a no fly zone on the Turkish border. So long as Assad was willing to use barrel bombs and poison gas on his own people and bring in foreign troops to win his battles, the idea of building an effective force at the late date that it was attempted was never possible outside of a no fly zone.
Might the Times demand an audit of the $500 million spent for, what, training 50 troops? How is this possible? That's $10 million for each soldier.
"Sufficient resources" in the Syrian case had to include creation of a no fly zone on the Turkish border. So long as Assad was willing to use barrel bombs and poison gas on his own people and bring in foreign troops to win his battles, the idea of building an effective force at the late date that it was attempted was never possible outside of a no fly zone.
Might the Times demand an audit of the $500 million spent for, what, training 50 troops? How is this possible? That's $10 million for each soldier.
2
"There is NO military solution to Syria's problems."
Not necessarily. If Russia and Iran team up with Assad's army, they can put a significant fighting force on the ground. ISIS has never been confronted with this before. Let's see what happens.
Not necessarily. If Russia and Iran team up with Assad's army, they can put a significant fighting force on the ground. ISIS has never been confronted with this before. Let's see what happens.
1
Half a billion of my tax dollars washed down the toilet trying to overthrow a legally elected democratic leader (that's half a billion we know about......)
Where are republican hawks when it comes to issues involving military spending.....they seem to be all over every other issue........why not when it comes to cutting defense waste?
Where are republican hawks when it comes to issues involving military spending.....they seem to be all over every other issue........why not when it comes to cutting defense waste?
17
$500 million was allotted, $50 million was spent. Bad but only 10% as bad.
We agree about money being wasted but since when did a dictator like Mr. Assad (who has murdered thousands of his own citizens) become a "legally elected democratic leader"?
1
Well, it is because those dollars spent are paid back to them in campaign contributions. I assume most of that money goes to defense contractors. The neocons are more than happy to keep giving it away to them knowing it will line their own pockets in return. $500M for 5 five fighters! That is a an utterly complete failure beyond belief! When I was chief engineer on the ship, I had to scrape my budget and beg just to order necessary repairs for the ship in drydock. Much haggling was done for a few hundred dollars worth of maintenance to keep the ship running. It is disgusting to see such sums of money flying into the ether for zero impact without anyone getting fired!
1
When you spend half a bil and you have 4 or 5 fighters to show for it, can you blame him?
Let's see what the Russians can do with this quagmire that W caused.
Let's see what the Russians can do with this quagmire that W caused.
2
Time for the Obama administration to consult its magic eight ball for a new Syria strategy. Or the latest polls.
3
Congress never fails to approve, nor does the President (of either party) ever fail to spend, untold trillions of dollars smashing, rebuilding, then ultimately alienating one third world country after another, leaving in our wake millions of lives shattered. Yet if any politician dare suggest that this nation's treasure instead be spent rebuilding our own infrastructure, educating our own people and providing healthcare to all, the word "socialism" is venomously spewed by the American-flag-lapel-pin-wearing crowd.
Why do they hate America so much?
Why do they hate America so much?
17
Another McCain/Graham foreign policy failure bites the dust.
http://thehill.com/policy/defense/211597-mccain-graham-call-for-us-to-ar...
http://thehill.com/policy/defense/235537-graham-shreds-obamas-fatally-fl...
Now, we just need to find the people at the Pentagon (and CIA) who recommended this plan to Obama and find other jobs for them.
http://thehill.com/policy/defense/211597-mccain-graham-call-for-us-to-ar...
http://thehill.com/policy/defense/235537-graham-shreds-obamas-fatally-fl...
Now, we just need to find the people at the Pentagon (and CIA) who recommended this plan to Obama and find other jobs for them.
9
After all, Barack Obama played no role in this travesty.
Everybody knows Obama leads from his behind.
Everybody knows Obama leads from his behind.
This move clearly shows that the US had abdicated to Russia in Syria. Who would ever imagined such a downfall?
2
The US hasn't abdicated anything to Russia. Barack Obama has.
Versions of US military training have played out before.
Most notably, there were the "advisers" Eisenhower/Kennedy sent to Vietnam to train the South Vietnamese against the North.
Those "advisers" didn't work out well, either, and were followed by American troops on the ground.
Then, the American troops didn't work out well, even with the B-52 bomber following up.
We never learn. We keep making the same mistakes, over and over again….a North American power trying to fight Asian land wars. Asia swallows us up.
Most notably, there were the "advisers" Eisenhower/Kennedy sent to Vietnam to train the South Vietnamese against the North.
Those "advisers" didn't work out well, either, and were followed by American troops on the ground.
Then, the American troops didn't work out well, even with the B-52 bomber following up.
We never learn. We keep making the same mistakes, over and over again….a North American power trying to fight Asian land wars. Asia swallows us up.
6
Syria is a totally failed state. No winners ever. The factions are destroying their very own heritage. Truly sad. But the US and NATO had better learn that they do not have to "save face" every time things don't go their way. Let the Russians get mired in it for absolutely no gain. Also sadly, Republicans will probably argue for more troops, more war, more money for the Pentagon. Ugh.
11
well your dems in the senate just voted along with the repubs to give $612 billion to the pentagon.
Don't give up quite yet. Before the failed revolution that the U.S. backed, Syria had a strong, functioning central government. Assad isn't a good guy, but he allowed a diversity of religions including Christians and Jews.
If Russia and Iran team up with the Syrian army, they will present a formidable fighting force that ISIS has never encountered before.
If Russia and Iran team up with the Syrian army, they will present a formidable fighting force that ISIS has never encountered before.
1
Ask yourself what does Russia get as it slowly takes over the ME.
And then watch the prices go up at your local gas station.
And then watch the prices go up at your local gas station.
Let me see if I have this right. For weeks now, we have been receiving scattered reports of the failure of the US to vet a significant number of "moderate rebels" in Syria, culminating with today's announcement that the program is cancelled. Mean time, we are criticizing the Russians for attacking the "moderate rebels" instead of ISIL. Does this seem inconsistent to anybody else?
The US has once again demonstrated its total incompetence in the Middle East. This can be expected to continue as long as we play power politics, and follow the failed pattern of alliances that was born of the Sykes-Picot agreement.
The US has once again demonstrated its total incompetence in the Middle East. This can be expected to continue as long as we play power politics, and follow the failed pattern of alliances that was born of the Sykes-Picot agreement.
16
A NYT article published a couple of days ago reported that some of the "moderate" groups we're backing are fighting alongside Nusra Front which is a franchise of al Qaeda. How does it make you feel to know that we're providing arms to al Qaeda's buddies?
1
Wasn't as if the "program" was having any success. Let's see, $500 million and 60 "trained" fighters= over $8 million per trainee. Just about right for a government program. Meanwhile, the US armed forces are being "downsized."
4
Syria has no future in the short term without Assad who will most likely reinfoce his postion in the Allowite homeland in a reduced but manageable tribal state which is the only kind which can survive in Syria and its neighboring countries. Better to come closer to the Russians, if possible, and come to a strategic understanding with them. Face reality, the map of the Arab middle east is changing fast away from the European imperialist model imposed after WWI to that of tribal homelands as existed for centuries under the Ottoman Empire. The only difference is thanks to President Obamas catastrophic bolstering of the extreme Shiite regime in Iran, millions of Sunnis have fled not to return. As for the Kurds they will be used in the short term but double-crossed in the longer term as they have always been because they are the only ones who can stand and fight without running away and have a will of their own, which is never a quality appreciated by outside meddlers.
11
An that is why Putin conferred with Netanyahu a few weeks before Russia launched its current military move. There is a "natural" political realignment possible between the two deeply conservative and Islamophobic regimes of Russia and Israel.
1
He Reps, drop the Benghazi witch hunt and find out what happened to the 500 million. Who approved it, what was given in aid, and where it ended up.
13
What made anyone think this effort would succeed and that if it succeeded it would draw anything but horse laughs from the ISIL/ISIS crowd?
6
How Obama would let his advisors talk him into supporting Syrian rebels is beyond me. It's time for our president to start making decisions on his own and stick with them. Like pulling out of this disaster waiting to happen. How about supporting the UKranians and arming them. Russia can't fight a war on two fronts.
5
What are you talking about? The president has insisted on directing from the beginning. What he needs to do is lay out the policy and then get out of the way! Oh, I forgot. He's already dumped the general staff with sufficient war experience! Dummy me....
This article is terribly misleading. It refers to the stopping of a program, but then well under the fold we learn Obama has authorized direct transfer of arms and ammo to certain "vetted" rebels. That seems to greatly increase the risk of a proxy war.
But the times knows this. And they've buried the new program well under the fold.
But the times knows this. And they've buried the new program well under the fold.
10
Don't worry. They're going to use the same tool for evaluating who is trustworthy, as the last (failed) effort. What could go wrong? You just can't make this stuff up. Absolutely crazy....from the start. Yippey, let's do it again!
I really don't understand the press. If the CIA trained troops are failures, why are we wringing our hand when the Russians attack them? They cannot simultaneously be a potent force and a failure. The media really has to get this right.
12
Just because they are failures doesn't mean we should cheer their deaths at the hands of the Russians.
1
This was a phony diversion by Obama to present the mirage of action.
Another government waste of half a billion dollars for political gain.
Another government waste of half a billion dollars for political gain.
9
$500 million down the drain, wasted training Sunni extremists who refused to fight ISIS and handed over their weapons to Al Qaeda. If this is not treason...
Also, the Times should be embarrassed to be reporting any information provided by the "Syrian Observatory for Human Rights." Is not a a monitoring group as the Times claims, but rather Rami Abdel Rahman, one man based in London who spews all sorts of figures and information that cannot be verified,
Also, the Times should be embarrassed to be reporting any information provided by the "Syrian Observatory for Human Rights." Is not a a monitoring group as the Times claims, but rather Rami Abdel Rahman, one man based in London who spews all sorts of figures and information that cannot be verified,
41
It is sadly not only the Times that has fallen for this charade that is the Syrian Observatory for Human Right; even progressive media such as Democracy Now have fallen for it. Thanks to RT for giving us the truth on this.
5
The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights is indeed a one man partisan effort broadcasting from London, bits of unverified hearsay from a far-away battlefield. Despite this well-known fact, he is cited in nearly every NYT story about Syria, without explanation about his situation.
I should also mention in this context that the Times continues to report from dubious sources, including The Istitute for the Study of War, a "think-tank" exclusively funded by military contractors, and thus highly suspect. I have articulated this complaint about one-sided presentations from this group on the PBS News Houras well as we are not getting unbiased reporting from these tools of war.
I should also mention in this context that the Times continues to report from dubious sources, including The Istitute for the Study of War, a "think-tank" exclusively funded by military contractors, and thus highly suspect. I have articulated this complaint about one-sided presentations from this group on the PBS News Houras well as we are not getting unbiased reporting from these tools of war.
1
Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition! Finally, there's some good news from the brass within the bowels of the Pentagon, But please, President Obama, to be sure and emphasize to Secretary Ash Carter that he has a bit of a problem with some "quality control" issues with these advisers. He should first screen them - that they actually know how to call in an air strike - before you screen some of these rebels to call in these air strikes given the recent "contretemps" in Kunduz. And tell him that he will be giving the apologies the next time around. That will keep his eye on the ball.
1
The idea was magical thinking from the start. This is a 3 sided civil war and we wanted 2 of the 3 gone which was an almost impossible task from the start- and that's before you even include Turkey fighing Kurds, now Russia and Iran. This situation as is everything in the ME is very complicated. You don't know who your allies are and you really don't have any. Your so called friends are really your fr enemies- nice to your face but stab you in the back while taking your money and abusing children in military bases. You supply people with weapons only to find out the weapons are then used against you - example Taliban. Who knows who is really who? Can you have an ISIS person pose as a rebel? I would imagine so. Obama knew from the very beginning this was a long shot but he tried and took a gamble. He lost. so now it's time to leave and let Russia get caught in the quagmire so he can distract his people from their broken economy and prop up a horrible dictator- no surprise there. We should leave the ME entirely and use the money here at home for infrastucture and taking care of veterans.
25
Or spend some of the money helping the refugees. I agree it is really complicated and duplicitous I am so glad Obama did not get us involved with ground troops..Iraq....what a mess Bush created there. So stupid....
This is the best summary of the chaos we have there.
Seems that many of the battle-capable citizens of Syria haven't the will to combat and save their beloved homeland. Instead they have chosen to flee to the wealthy nations of Europe and elsewhere in hope of a better, unearned, economic opportunity.That is not how wars are won. Some would call that cowardice.
15
What a naive, uninformed statement..I gues all those women and children we see in boats unworthy to be at sea are selfish and looking for the easy way out
1
And some would call it just not wanting themselves and their families to be slaughtered in the streets by an overwhelming more powerful and well-armed force, that of the Assad government.
The families of most Americans, including most likely yours, emigrated to the United States at some point for a similar "unearned" economic opportunity.
Even when Obama is forced to admit an obvious failure of his, he still tries to blame someone or something else. As Commander-in-Chief, the Pentagon and its policies are directed and controlled by, and the responsibility, of Barrack Obama. Will the president ever grow up?
19
Another failed plan and likely another failed policy. Between our foreign policy "elite" and military efforts to overthrow Assad--or invade Afghanistan and Iraq, destroy the government of Libya or--I can't think of a single plan or projection that has gone as they said it would. Why do none of these people pay no price politically or careerwise for being so wrong so consistently? Not only do they pay no price, they the are consulted again and their careers continue to advance. There is no penalty for their failure except to other countries and the U.S. itself.
51
Because it's not so much about replacing other countries' governments as it is about controlling their fossil fuels.
I think the key words in the article come from Andrew J. Tabler “Like in the Iraq war, you can’t expect people to fight on your behalf unless you give them what they want. We got the politics wrong yet again.”
Life would be a lot easier for America, and rest of the world, if the U.S. stops trying to forcibly mold sovereign countries into its liking within the term limit of the president.
The track record is awful, like it is for Russia and China as well.
Life would be a lot easier for America, and rest of the world, if the U.S. stops trying to forcibly mold sovereign countries into its liking within the term limit of the president.
The track record is awful, like it is for Russia and China as well.
4
This is great news, truly! Let Putin have Syria for all the good it does him. Let's get out NOW!
5
"where a small group of “enablers” — mostly leaders of opposition groups — would be taught operational maneuvers like how to call in airstrikes."
Gee, what could possibly go wrong?
Gee, what could possibly go wrong?
7
"Our DoDo-in-Chief is learning it takes more than being a community organizer to run a country. This is like bush and his W.M.D. When you know not what you are doing you had better have advisors who know what is going on and will not allow you to make stupid mistakes!
6
The program cost us about $100K per a fighter. I think just recruiting foreign professional mercenaries would be cheaper and much more effective use of money. Just buy an army of killers and thugs from around the world, pay them well, and set them on ISIS.
2
Sorry, but I don't really see any difference. We're still intent on funneling tons of cash and weapons to "moderates" because we are desperate to weaken Assad. The only difference now is that with Russia helping, any chance of success is gone, and the complete waste of the money is a foregone conclusion.
4
Our last five "fighters" sold their weapons and are now in a refugee camp in Berlin. Spreading jihad.
We would love to see an accounting of the 500 million spent.
We would love to see an accounting of the 500 million spent.
12
Good decision. Now let's figure out where that half billion dollars went, why the program/system failed, and try to claw back some of that money. At the very least, those contractors involved in the so-called training - names of individuals and contractor companies - and strike those names from the Pentagon's federal contractor list.
8
Holy Cow. You must be kidding. Our government just spent $500M to train "four or five" rebels, ostensibly to fight a two front war, against both ISIL and Assad.
Did anyone do the math? That works out to about $125M per trainee.
Is that correct, or am I missing something?
Did anyone do the math? That works out to about $125M per trainee.
Is that correct, or am I missing something?
12
I've heard "five" more often than "four," which makes the math a bit better -- only $100 million per trainee rather than $125 million.
1
That's about right Herb but it is cheap compared to the $4 billion poured into airstrikes that have killed an estimated 10,000 ISIS fighters. That comes to $400,000 per casualty. Source: http://www.defense.gov/News/Special-Reports/0814_Inherent-Resolve.
You do the math and figure out how the US can afford to fight a war for long at these costs.
You do the math and figure out how the US can afford to fight a war for long at these costs.
We trained a lot more than that. There are only four or five left in the program. Many who were trained were overrun or turned coat and joined ISIL/ISIS.
Probably finally someone read the newspapers out there (NYT included) and realized that most of those "friendly" rebel groups are associates of Al Qaeda...remember Iraq, Afghanistan? etc The US went to war, etc trying to find their boss and everyone else in that organization. ie: Terrorists.
Not to mention that probably the first efforts in arming rebels back a few years ago, when the situation and who was who was not clear probably bolstered the creation or reinforced a budding ISIS.
Not to mention that probably the first efforts in arming rebels back a few years ago, when the situation and who was who was not clear probably bolstered the creation or reinforced a budding ISIS.
6
This "training" fiasco reminds me of when our soldiers "trained" the Iraqi military after we'd conquered Iraq in 2003. Many of the Iraqi officers and soldiers had fought in the Iran-Iraq war, which lasted from 1980-1988, and thought they knew a bit more about soldiering than the babe-in-the-woods US soldiers sent there to "train" them. They thought the US military just might have beat the Iraq military because they had high-priced weapons, not because they were better soldiers.
I have a feeling these "moderate rebel" Syrians had pretty much the same attitude. They just liked the fat paychecks they were getting, and the ample supply of US weapons they were handed at the end of the course (most of which were promptly taken by their enemies when most of those "trained" soldiers were captured after a day or two in the field).
I have a feeling these "moderate rebel" Syrians had pretty much the same attitude. They just liked the fat paychecks they were getting, and the ample supply of US weapons they were handed at the end of the course (most of which were promptly taken by their enemies when most of those "trained" soldiers were captured after a day or two in the field).
8
An I might add that we made a terrible mistake by getting rid of the Iraqi army (disbanding it) rather than letting it continue on under our command. We would, most likely, have had a much better possibility of controlling what turned into an out of control country comprised of different tribal factions, made, by fiat, by the British over 100+ years ago.
The fact that the USA is actively and publicly involved in trying to overthrow a legitimate government should be embarrassing to us all. Syria was under no UN sanctions and had been generally a stable country, until we tacitly backed the so-called "Arab Spring" and allowed the entire region to devolve into chaos. We arbitrarily decided to topple Assad, who is certainly a dictator, but kept the country stable, didn't persecute religious minorities and stayed away from Israel. He's really no worse than the Castro brothers, whom we've suddenly decided to cozy up with. These are sad times for American foreign policy and I hope the Syrian people forgive us for what we've done to them.
29
So true and sad.
"Obama Administration Ends Pentagon Program to Train Syrian Rebels". All five?
14
Given the reports that Central Command had intentionally squashed intelligence reports that this training program was failing, as well as the rather clumsy testimony of General Campbell before congress, there certainly appears to be a need for a wholesale cashiering of the top ranks of that command starting with General Campbell himself. Perhaps that clean sweep should also include prominent members of Obama's national security staff as well.
8
I might suggest a clean sweep of the Executive branch of government also.
What a coincidence, the US ceases the support of the 'moderate' Syrian rebels exactly after Russia started fighting ISIS.
Weren't those 'moderate' rebels in fact members of ISIS and the US poured this money directly into their pockets with Saudi's and Turkey's help? Of course the Obama administration will never admit they supported ISIS out of the taxpayers' money, but isn't this what in fact happened?
Weren't those 'moderate' rebels in fact members of ISIS and the US poured this money directly into their pockets with Saudi's and Turkey's help? Of course the Obama administration will never admit they supported ISIS out of the taxpayers' money, but isn't this what in fact happened?
9
No. It is not "in fact" what happened. ISIS largely originated from other areas, such as Yemen and Iraq.
This piece uses the term "strategy" 5 times. I firmly suspect the Obama administration have no idea what a strategy looks like. I doubt they could develop a strategy for tiddlywinks.
10
The pity is they actually strategize very well. But only for presidential elections.
We should have given that money to Assad! He's the good guy over there. Is he a brutal tyrant? Absolutely. But, like Saddam before him, a secular Tyrant is better than a cadre of religious maniacs.
42
"If we are going to send arms to any party in this mess, I would say the Kurds."
I think you'll get your wish, big-time.
I predict Russia/Assad will lay claim to western Syria and leave eastern Syria (aka "desert") to ISIS, whereupon ISIS will focus its attention elsewhere, notably back in Iraq and against the Kurds. The Kurds will plead for US help, as they always do. The US government will do some bob-and-weave with Turkey (who doesn't smile upon any giving of aid to the Kurds) and supply the Kurds with lots of money and weapons – only to fight ISIS, of course, and the Kurds undoubtedly will promise not to use those weapons for any other purpose (such as fighting the Turks, for example).
We never actually get out of the Middle East, though we should. We just lurch from one stupid engagement to the next. That appears likely to happen again. In six months, maybe less, count on reading lots of articles about how the Kurds are our "one true ally" over there, and so we need to send them lots of money and weapons.
I think you'll get your wish, big-time.
I predict Russia/Assad will lay claim to western Syria and leave eastern Syria (aka "desert") to ISIS, whereupon ISIS will focus its attention elsewhere, notably back in Iraq and against the Kurds. The Kurds will plead for US help, as they always do. The US government will do some bob-and-weave with Turkey (who doesn't smile upon any giving of aid to the Kurds) and supply the Kurds with lots of money and weapons – only to fight ISIS, of course, and the Kurds undoubtedly will promise not to use those weapons for any other purpose (such as fighting the Turks, for example).
We never actually get out of the Middle East, though we should. We just lurch from one stupid engagement to the next. That appears likely to happen again. In six months, maybe less, count on reading lots of articles about how the Kurds are our "one true ally" over there, and so we need to send them lots of money and weapons.
8
Nothing good will come of our involvement in Syria. It is a lost cause, although not one we can, or will, abandon. The area formerly known as Syria will be in conflict for years to come, and some it will be contested land for decades. Some combination of Muslim extremists will likely control vast, largely uninhabited portions of it in the East, while the lower coast will remain in Alawite hands, even after Assad is dead. We will spend billions to no effect there, other than flooding the area with guns and money. This is our Middle East foreign policy approach.
3
This time the US should allopw the Russians to carry the water in fighting insurgents and not repeat the Afghan experience. If we had let the Russians continue their efforts against insurgents in that country , the US would not have created Al Qaeda which launched the 911 attacks ultimately leading to the Islamic Brotherhood take over of Egypt, the Lybian fiasco, the creation of the ISIS Al Qaeda offshoot and the Iraq disaster and the current Syrian fiasco. Our neocon Dems (starting with Scoop Jackson) and Republicans (Goldwater, Cheney/Reagan) have driven this country's foreign policy into repeated misadventures and disasters. Let the Russians do the dirty work. Political and economic progress / influences do not grow out of the barrel of a gun or from the mouths of mindless media talking heads.
1
This is news? Our training programs failed miserably in Iraq, in Afghanistan and now we're surprised our money and time has been wasted in Syria?
5
I do not see this as a negative, I see this as the arrival, hopefully, of a hard learned and bitter lesson.
The interventionist model of how the US should deal with unstable states -- AKA the Bush Doctrine -- has finally reached the end of its learning curve. The folly has run its course, and we hopefully are back where we should have stayed: containment of conflict and instability, not intervention.
Our "freedom interventions" in the Middle East were military adventures of utter folly, for the region is riven with countless sectarian and tribal and political strife. We thought removing one government, or one man, would uncork Jeffersonian democratic esprit among the people. Obama too fell under the spell of this misguided idealism in the case of Assad, and also, a couple years ago, in Egypt.
Have we learned our lesson yet? If we have, this story is not bad news. It means we have come back around to our realpolitik senses. Containment is our talent; let the Russians get mucked down in interventionism yet again.
The interventionist model of how the US should deal with unstable states -- AKA the Bush Doctrine -- has finally reached the end of its learning curve. The folly has run its course, and we hopefully are back where we should have stayed: containment of conflict and instability, not intervention.
Our "freedom interventions" in the Middle East were military adventures of utter folly, for the region is riven with countless sectarian and tribal and political strife. We thought removing one government, or one man, would uncork Jeffersonian democratic esprit among the people. Obama too fell under the spell of this misguided idealism in the case of Assad, and also, a couple years ago, in Egypt.
Have we learned our lesson yet? If we have, this story is not bad news. It means we have come back around to our realpolitik senses. Containment is our talent; let the Russians get mucked down in interventionism yet again.
2
Just another example as to how the Obama cabal is wandering around with blindfolds when they try to figure things out. And, also illustrates their desperation to "have someone else do it for us". Sad, with all the great leaders we have had as President who provided strong leadership, we have come to this point whereby Russia has filled the leadership void in the Middle East.
Someone better put on their thinking hat and develop a strong and strong coalition with action, not words, because we can all see it coming. Russia will target the former Communist countries, i.e. Baltics, Poland, etc. to get them back under their umbrella. It will happen over time, because Putin knows we will do nothing at least under Obama.
What has America come to in the past 7 years? Simply a country that huffs and puffs and stamps its feet at Russian aggressive expansion strategies, and really does nothing of substance to exert our influence. We believe that Asaad must go as he is a bloody dictator, but only Russia asks, "what happens if he goes??? Another Libya?" But, we have no plan for the region or for Syria for that matter.
Someone better put on their thinking hat and develop a strong and strong coalition with action, not words, because we can all see it coming. Russia will target the former Communist countries, i.e. Baltics, Poland, etc. to get them back under their umbrella. It will happen over time, because Putin knows we will do nothing at least under Obama.
What has America come to in the past 7 years? Simply a country that huffs and puffs and stamps its feet at Russian aggressive expansion strategies, and really does nothing of substance to exert our influence. We believe that Asaad must go as he is a bloody dictator, but only Russia asks, "what happens if he goes??? Another Libya?" But, we have no plan for the region or for Syria for that matter.
5
Mr Obama, you cannot win a war by throwing money at a Polyanna inspired strategy.
5
The "moderate" rebels were given the chance, at significant cost, to show they were up for the fight against ISIS as well as the Assad Regime, and they showed that they are not. At least they aren't in the way that the Obama administration had hoped. The U.S. government was played when it came to financing and training hours, but at least we didn't put our soldiers in the middle of what is a struggle for power. If Russia wants to get bogged down, let them. America has got to stop trying to impose democratic values on countries that aren't ready for it.
2
Why are we giving up on this commendable program? At $100,000,000 per Syrian "moderate" it is a far lower unit cost than an aircraft carrier or advanced fighter plane and perhaps just as useful. We should also invest $500,000,000 in the tooth fairy to help guide us on how to motivate Sunni Syrians to fight Sunni ISIL when all they really want to do is fight Assad and his barrel bombs.
3
Here is a probable outcome: Russia's action will cause the "moderate" rebels join forces with ISIL to topple Assad. I am not so sure that if the Russians succeed in eliminating the opposition that ISIL will then fight Assad once the Russians leave. I can see the eventuality of a large ME war with Iran and Russia fighting the Sunnis of ISIL and even Saudi together. Egypt and Turkey in this scenario are wildcards. My hope is that we as a nation get the heck out of there ASAP!
3
The two wars in Iraq show us that it is very difficult for the U.S., utilizing the tools known to us, to create conditions on the ground that would simply foster democratic and effective governments. We have failed in Iraq and looks like we are about to fail in Afghanistan. Sadly, our future anti-terror campaigns will mostly likely be the job of our special forces and the CIA.
Obama's policy on Syria is based on the lessons from the 2nd Iraq War and the Afghanistan War. Similar to the other two theaters, we may not like the result in Syria. But Syria is not going to cost us trillions but rather, just billions. And in Washington, billions are not real money but just change.
Obama's policy on Syria is based on the lessons from the 2nd Iraq War and the Afghanistan War. Similar to the other two theaters, we may not like the result in Syria. But Syria is not going to cost us trillions but rather, just billions. And in Washington, billions are not real money but just change.
1
Great. So let me get this straight.......the idea is to supply massive instruments of death and destruction in the hope that somehow everything will turn out wonderful.
Ingenious!
Ingenious!
5
Have we learned nothing from history? There has never been a record of success training other nation's militias. Why would anyone have thought it would work in the Syrian quagmire? At least they are ending this inexplicable endeavor sooner than later.
7
so who got that $500m?
7
The whole idea that a small number of rebels (with questionable affiliation to begin with) could defeat Assad, and then also prevent ISIS from taking over Syria was always doomed to begin with -- more "hope" than policy. If Russia ends up cleaning out ISIS from Syria and Iraq, it will be great for the US as well.
5
Why would anyone in Syria join to fight either ISIS or Assad? All you need do is arrive in Europe, demand that you cross borders and migrate anywhere you wish that has very generous social services and you can have a good life. A life built by others and not yourself.
If you have no place to go perhaps all of these able bodied men would then get the back bone to do the fighting themselves. We have found this to be true in Iraq and Afghanistan. Why fight when the west will dump trillions of dollars into your country, paying warlords and elected politicians who love our money, and the people don't have to fight because our soldiers are doing it for them. And then cry we are war criminals when we make a mistake and innocents are injured and killed.
Seal them up in their third world countries and let them fight it our and we can deal with whoever takes over there. Dictators seem to be the best form of government for that part of the world. The people only understand tyrants they have no concept of individual freedoms, other than what their religion allows which isn't too much for women, gays or non-believers.
Europe will become inundated with refugees at this rate, again why bother to fight for a better way of life, when Europe's with its open borders is safe, at least safe for now.
If you have no place to go perhaps all of these able bodied men would then get the back bone to do the fighting themselves. We have found this to be true in Iraq and Afghanistan. Why fight when the west will dump trillions of dollars into your country, paying warlords and elected politicians who love our money, and the people don't have to fight because our soldiers are doing it for them. And then cry we are war criminals when we make a mistake and innocents are injured and killed.
Seal them up in their third world countries and let them fight it our and we can deal with whoever takes over there. Dictators seem to be the best form of government for that part of the world. The people only understand tyrants they have no concept of individual freedoms, other than what their religion allows which isn't too much for women, gays or non-believers.
Europe will become inundated with refugees at this rate, again why bother to fight for a better way of life, when Europe's with its open borders is safe, at least safe for now.
6
Buffoonery is the hallmark of this administration in the Middle East.
As has been mentioned there likely is more to this than is being made public as far as tactics in support of the strategy. Oh wait there is no strategy. Except high tail it out of there and salute the Russians on the way out while leaving hundreds of millions of dollars in armaments to be used against our friends or more accurately our former friends. Betrayal would be another hallmark of Mr. Obama's tenure.
Wasn't it Obama who pointed out that Putin's plans in Syria will fail? This little revelation on Obama's plans show they can clearly be called a failure. I guess he would know all about it. Although Putin has a backbone. Obama is a spineless policy maker on foreign issues. He only has animosity when it comes to his own country and people.
He definitely can unite people though. Russia and Iran were adversaries before Obama provided a path to a common goal. Israel is in deep trouble now. But no worries this all lines up nicely with Daniel's prophecy almost 3,000 years ago.
As has been mentioned there likely is more to this than is being made public as far as tactics in support of the strategy. Oh wait there is no strategy. Except high tail it out of there and salute the Russians on the way out while leaving hundreds of millions of dollars in armaments to be used against our friends or more accurately our former friends. Betrayal would be another hallmark of Mr. Obama's tenure.
Wasn't it Obama who pointed out that Putin's plans in Syria will fail? This little revelation on Obama's plans show they can clearly be called a failure. I guess he would know all about it. Although Putin has a backbone. Obama is a spineless policy maker on foreign issues. He only has animosity when it comes to his own country and people.
He definitely can unite people though. Russia and Iran were adversaries before Obama provided a path to a common goal. Israel is in deep trouble now. But no worries this all lines up nicely with Daniel's prophecy almost 3,000 years ago.
5
The search for a critical mass of moderates and believers in democracy in Syria has followed the path of similar searches in Iraq, Iran, Egypt,Libya, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Qatar, etc. All the more reason the Nobel Peace Prize to the group in Tunisia was richly deserved.
How many hundreds of thousands of lives would have been saved if Cheyney and Bush and now Obama had instead launched an equally realistic search for unicorns?
How many hundreds of thousands of lives would have been saved if Cheyney and Bush and now Obama had instead launched an equally realistic search for unicorns?
4
Another failure of President Obama's Middle East Foreign Policy. $500 million wasted, added to the trillions wasted by his and the previous administration; for 14 years.
And what did we get for this:
1. 3000+ people killed on 9/11.
2. Nearly 3,000 soldiers killed in Afghanistan and counting.
3 Nearly 5,000 soldiers killed in Iraq.
4. The rise of ISIS.
5. Re-establishment of the Taliban in Afghanistan.
6. Destabilization in Libya.
7. A major regional war in the Middle East.
Not all of this can be blamed on president Obama. Congress, and George W. Bush are equally complicit. So are people like Hillary Clinton who voted for starting the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Meanwhile, we continue to lose soldiers, we continue to bomb innocent people and now we even gone as far is to bomb a hospital. Doctors Without Borders are doing the right thing, bring the United States up on charges of war crimes. Though, the US does not accept the World Court, when it chooses to go after the US.
While the World Court is at it, it should examine Saudi Arabia for exporting radical Islam and funding international terrorism. The same with Iran. Not to mention its abysmal human rights record among their peoples.
These questions remains. Was all this worth it over the past 14 years? Was this a fitting memory, and legacy, of the 3,000 people who died on 9/11? Did the sacrifice, maiming, injuries, and deaths, on all sides, accomplish anything? History will judge.
And what did we get for this:
1. 3000+ people killed on 9/11.
2. Nearly 3,000 soldiers killed in Afghanistan and counting.
3 Nearly 5,000 soldiers killed in Iraq.
4. The rise of ISIS.
5. Re-establishment of the Taliban in Afghanistan.
6. Destabilization in Libya.
7. A major regional war in the Middle East.
Not all of this can be blamed on president Obama. Congress, and George W. Bush are equally complicit. So are people like Hillary Clinton who voted for starting the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Meanwhile, we continue to lose soldiers, we continue to bomb innocent people and now we even gone as far is to bomb a hospital. Doctors Without Borders are doing the right thing, bring the United States up on charges of war crimes. Though, the US does not accept the World Court, when it chooses to go after the US.
While the World Court is at it, it should examine Saudi Arabia for exporting radical Islam and funding international terrorism. The same with Iran. Not to mention its abysmal human rights record among their peoples.
These questions remains. Was all this worth it over the past 14 years? Was this a fitting memory, and legacy, of the 3,000 people who died on 9/11? Did the sacrifice, maiming, injuries, and deaths, on all sides, accomplish anything? History will judge.
6
This decision seems to be a correct step in the right direction.
Now it is long past due to embrace the Kurds fully, without making any geographical distinction. Sure, our NATO ally will vigorously object to that. That's where our skilled diplomats must step in. We need to correct this anomaly, that is we allow the bombing of the Kurds by Turkey at the same time we support the Kurds' fight against religious extremism in both Syria and Iraq.
I am no military expert, but throwing the Kurds in Turkey under the bus just to be able to use the Incirlik air base was and is not a sound decision.
Now it is long past due to embrace the Kurds fully, without making any geographical distinction. Sure, our NATO ally will vigorously object to that. That's where our skilled diplomats must step in. We need to correct this anomaly, that is we allow the bombing of the Kurds by Turkey at the same time we support the Kurds' fight against religious extremism in both Syria and Iraq.
I am no military expert, but throwing the Kurds in Turkey under the bus just to be able to use the Incirlik air base was and is not a sound decision.
5
It IS time to arms the Kurds, regardless of what Turkey says. They want to throw the Kurds away to ISIS and whoever else dislikes them. All the Kurds want is an autonomous homeland, and that should be their right. Why should we be bound by what the British decided 100+ years ago as far as deciding lines of countries boundaries?
It makes no sense in todays' world.
It makes no sense in todays' world.
So Vietnamization has failed again. When will we ever learn....
5
Dumb move on the Americans part. Putin is now coming into clean up the mess that Obama made in Syria. We should have never gotten involved in Syria to begin with. By the way our air campaign against so called ISIS or more like US proxy is a farce.
3
Putin does not want to clean up any mess made by the U.S. He doesn't care. What Putin does want is a new 21st C. USSR and he doesn't really care who he bombs. Oh yes, he also scored 7 goals in hockey a day ago...right.
Massive waste of tax payer dollars and another reason that we should stay out of the Middle East. All our efforts - the war in Iraq, support for so-called Democratic revolutions in Libya and Syria, etc., etc. - fail, muddy the situation or worsen events.
We simply do not seem to understand who the various players are and what their goals are.
We simply do not seem to understand who the various players are and what their goals are.
1
What the Times calls a "shift in strategy" others would call a "debacle."
President Wilson once remarked that all armed conflicts were motivated by economic lust. Tolstoy wrote that all so-called strategies actually resulted from a confluence of often conflicting, factionalized impulses. But whatever its motive or calculus, U.S. policy in Syria (as in Iraq and Afghanistan) has been characterized by overweening hubris.
President Wilson once remarked that all armed conflicts were motivated by economic lust. Tolstoy wrote that all so-called strategies actually resulted from a confluence of often conflicting, factionalized impulses. But whatever its motive or calculus, U.S. policy in Syria (as in Iraq and Afghanistan) has been characterized by overweening hubris.
7
$500,000,000.00 to train 4 soldiers? Ask John McCain about that? There are a half million Syrian military age men fleeing to Germany...so much for fighting for their country. They have no interest in their country, because they know that the American program. the Russian program, will not help them. The Kurds are fighting, fighting for the idea of a homeland. The Syrians are fighting for welfare in Germany. Good on you Germany, I hope it works out. Not one more American kid, should be wasted in this morass that is the Middle East. We should withdraw from Afghanistan and Syria. We have a country here, that still functions (sorta) let's fix that. We have broken infrastructure and still have a government that works (sorta) let's focus on that. How many contractors pockets that half a billion dollars, while turning out only 4 soldiers, that will likely desert the moment they face an enemy. Let the Russian have Syria.
10
@thewriterstuff - I agree with you about the $$/4 fighters and not wasting another American life in that place. The Russia problem is larger though. Mr. Putin is determined to recreate the USSR. The Baltic countries and Poland are very nervous. Russia flew over the air space of Turkey, a piece pf Iraq and into their pal's Iranian backyard, not far from one of their northern cities, dropping bombs. They don't care about precision and they don't apologize. This Russian Bear is beginning to roar and that didn't work out so well the last time.
If we are going to send arms to any party in this mess, I would say the Kurds. But arming the Kurds is a mess in its own. The Kurds really want their own little state, they have no real issue with Assad or ISIS except as it helps or hinders that goal. In addition, arming the Kurds would freak out Turkey (so we should wait until after the Turkish election) and will be difficult in the absence of a sea port.
1
This was certainly a surprise. This decision is rational, mature and practical resulting from a hard look at objective facts not twisted by hope.
4
Everyone wanted the President "to do something". (In fact, just last week readers of the NYT wanted Obama "to do something" about Russia). Must people did not think boots on the ground was feasible. John McCain was on the talk shows every weekend talking about the poor "opposition" forces that needed our help. Some people want us to get "tough" with Syria. Actually, when it comes to the Middle East, it's best to do nothing!
6
Five hundred million dollars down the drain thanks to the Pentagon. Who thinks up these programs? Anyone who knows even a little about Syria would have understood that the people would want to fight Assad first and then ISIS. it was naïve to think we could make them put our priorities first.
Congress should have smelled a rat in this program when it was first proposed. The US should not try any more programs involving Syrian fighters. We should not army the Syrians, as we have seen they just turn their weapons over to Al Nusra or some other Jihadist franchise.
Forget Syria - let the Russian do what they want there. It is no threat to the homeland. We should concentrate on the existential fight with ISIS. It is very important that ISIS be destroyed than anything else in the Middle East. Let Russia protect Assad, that is not our fight - it is not up to use to choose who governs Syria.
Our mission , and only mission in the Middle East must be the destruction of ISIS. We have squandered so much money on the Middle East that could have been spent at home. We must stop trying to do Regime Change in every country where we considered the ruler undemocratic. All our efforts have been disasters. Let the ruler be undemocratic, it is NOT our job to change that Ruler.
We have two priorities: Destroy ISIS. Repairs of the homeland - from increasing money for the elderly to fixing bridges and roads.
Stop wasting money on being the world's policeman --
Congress should have smelled a rat in this program when it was first proposed. The US should not try any more programs involving Syrian fighters. We should not army the Syrians, as we have seen they just turn their weapons over to Al Nusra or some other Jihadist franchise.
Forget Syria - let the Russian do what they want there. It is no threat to the homeland. We should concentrate on the existential fight with ISIS. It is very important that ISIS be destroyed than anything else in the Middle East. Let Russia protect Assad, that is not our fight - it is not up to use to choose who governs Syria.
Our mission , and only mission in the Middle East must be the destruction of ISIS. We have squandered so much money on the Middle East that could have been spent at home. We must stop trying to do Regime Change in every country where we considered the ruler undemocratic. All our efforts have been disasters. Let the ruler be undemocratic, it is NOT our job to change that Ruler.
We have two priorities: Destroy ISIS. Repairs of the homeland - from increasing money for the elderly to fixing bridges and roads.
Stop wasting money on being the world's policeman --
15
Did you read the entire article? Obama authorized the direct transfer of arms to certain Syrian terror groups.
Another waste of taxpayer money.
$500 million that could have gone toward fixing the crumbling roads and bridges in this country.
I would love to see is an accounting of how the $500 million was spent over there.
Maybe we can sue for misuse and/or incompetence and get some of it back.
Kidding, of course.
$500 million that could have gone toward fixing the crumbling roads and bridges in this country.
I would love to see is an accounting of how the $500 million was spent over there.
Maybe we can sue for misuse and/or incompetence and get some of it back.
Kidding, of course.
10
We need to end sending as much as a slingshot to the fundamentalist Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and the terrorist groups they back in Syria. The Wahhabi Islam they promote is one of the chief causes of turmoil in the region. They are a brutal and intolerant government and not a force for secularism. The BBC reports today an Indian woman held as a slave in the Kingdom had her arm chopped off by her Saudi 'owner' when she tried to escape. No arrests have or apologies have been made.
27
Actually we just chose Saudis to lead commission on human rights at the UN...another failed experiment...
Will someone take our military guys to a secret place, ask their candid opinion, then publish lt anonymously, please. I assume that, somewhere, near the very top of the administration, is a small group of civilian fools, just like the Cheney gang, screwing things up just as badly as the Bush folks did. They may not be committing war crimes, but they are no less harmful in terms of their incompetence. Send them to their think tanks early, so that they can start writing their harmless position papers now, before they do any more damage.
6
About time. We train the heathens and they go over to the ISIS side. So, what is the purpose other than helping Obama`s Islamist`s brothers.
3
This is good news as far as i can tell. What is left is to seat down with Russia and hatch a coalition plan for the extirpation of ISIS. I am sure USA can get a deal that after the defeat of ISIS and the return to calm Asad should go. But to insist now that Asad must go is like pure madness to me. The opposition are so disorganised. I don't trust them.
6
Defense Secretary Ashton Carter constantly pre-mature statements (including insulting Iraq several months back), his poor relationships with the Russians and Israel and his drop-in-the-bucket image when in Europe makes him useless - he makes the US look very weak.
5
Military suppliers and Blackwell aren't going to be happy; nor will their Republican surrogates.
4
It is time to recognize that the U.S. is not very good at this training stuff, except with people with whom we are culturally comfortable, NATO allies and Japan, for instance. Anybody can be taught to shoot but not everybody be taught to fight in battalions.
That's my theory. Against it, I can offer the example of El Salvador. Bob White, Larry Pizzuolo and I watched a grizzled top sergeant give common sense human rights training to El Salvador's troops: don't torture prisoners, cause you won't get good info (Dick Cheney, please note) and don't mess with civilians, cause they will turn into enemies if you do.
From Puerto Rico, he spoke fluent Spanish and was culturally comfortable. A year later, his students committed the largest massacre in El Salvador's Civil War, wiping out the village of El Mozote. So much for theory.
We have to go way back to the Philippines and Magsaysay for a time when the U.S. effectively trained a 3rd world military. The comment about the Taiiban. below, is instructive. Basically, we gave the Muj weapons (e.g, Stinger missiles to decimate Soviet helicopters) not training.
Maybe we could just arm the Kurds, by all accounts a more effective fighting force than either the Iraq Army or ISIL's maniacs..
That's my theory. Against it, I can offer the example of El Salvador. Bob White, Larry Pizzuolo and I watched a grizzled top sergeant give common sense human rights training to El Salvador's troops: don't torture prisoners, cause you won't get good info (Dick Cheney, please note) and don't mess with civilians, cause they will turn into enemies if you do.
From Puerto Rico, he spoke fluent Spanish and was culturally comfortable. A year later, his students committed the largest massacre in El Salvador's Civil War, wiping out the village of El Mozote. So much for theory.
We have to go way back to the Philippines and Magsaysay for a time when the U.S. effectively trained a 3rd world military. The comment about the Taiiban. below, is instructive. Basically, we gave the Muj weapons (e.g, Stinger missiles to decimate Soviet helicopters) not training.
Maybe we could just arm the Kurds, by all accounts a more effective fighting force than either the Iraq Army or ISIL's maniacs..
89
To Frank McNeil:
Excellent analysis.
I would only add that no "outsider" is training ISIL. It seems to be doing that pretty well by its own devices. It has an underlying commitment its indigenous opponents lack. No amount of training can instill the fortitude, mindset - whatever one calls it - necessary for a sustained, effective opposition to ISIL. It's just not there. Not yet, anyway.
Excellent analysis.
I would only add that no "outsider" is training ISIL. It seems to be doing that pretty well by its own devices. It has an underlying commitment its indigenous opponents lack. No amount of training can instill the fortitude, mindset - whatever one calls it - necessary for a sustained, effective opposition to ISIL. It's just not there. Not yet, anyway.
1
Thank God someone is finally saying arm the Kurds!!!!
It seems that soldiers, in the Middle East, are not committed enough to take initiative. If the US insists on ground troops, I guess we should send in the pros, except I have to wonder about our commitment. If we're going to continue to participate, maybe we should do it to win, or withdraw.
1
It's about time to end a program that should not have been initiated in the first place. The only reason that we are there is to further Saudi Arabia's ambitions in that area. Very disappointed in POTUS being suckered in to this campaign. Russia is there to support an ally after being invited. No one has invited us.
16
Very much agree with Wesley Martin on this one.
Mind you, The big boys at NATO are sooooooo excited because they get to strut about in front of CNN in their nice outfits with polished buttons and brag about how they are going to put Assad and Russia in it's place.
This makes NATO "Relevant" you understand.
Mind you, The big boys at NATO are sooooooo excited because they get to strut about in front of CNN in their nice outfits with polished buttons and brag about how they are going to put Assad and Russia in it's place.
This makes NATO "Relevant" you understand.
Our sense of proportion concerning government waste is skewed in these times, when so many individuals in the United States could have paid that $500,000,000 out of their own pockets and not even missed it, not even for a second. Is there anything odd about this picture?
5
@JB - great point! Yes, this picture is odd as is the amount of venom spewed by Americans on these pages against their own country.
I am sure the trainers now know and most likely have reported to their superiors that these "moderate" trainees have more common believes and values with isil than what the American public think of the word moderate. The so called moderate Syrian opposition will never materialize. So it is not unethical with Assad as ruler of Syria as America closed its eyes on Bahrainis.
13
Can we finally admit the limitations of the use of the military? The U.S. Army cannot create a civil society, cannot end conflicts, and cannot train effective armies. The military is only good at destroying civilian infrastructure and killing people, and we need to recognize this.
5
The bloated NSC staff should be providing the president a coherent strategy to enable the US to act with conviction and authority in the middle east. I believe this staff is loaded with sycophants, loyal to democratic ideals, but absent common sense realism that our nation needs to manage the chaos we helped to create and now so many are exploiting.
We were not realists in this endeavor. We spent a ton of bucks finding, vetting, training the most perfectly loyal and untainted few, only to have them killed quickly after entering Syria. Then we lose equipment to the insurgents. But where is the coalition of regional stakeholders to deal with this mess?
The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
Putin is just laughing at us, scoffing at our idealistic views and running circles around our nations power by acting decisively with authority and conviction with boots on the ground. In a couple of months he will have Assad secured in place, the middle east awakening finally quelled, and though we will continue to bluster, he will have what he wants.
If we wanted Assad gone, we could have hit him long ago with airpower after crossing the "red line". We could put special forces in to organize a resistance to topple him. It is what SF does.
Fire the current NSC staff, shrink it down to credible thinkers who understand power and put boots on the ground if it is in our interest. We need strategic thinkers to guide our nations power and a president willing to lead.
We were not realists in this endeavor. We spent a ton of bucks finding, vetting, training the most perfectly loyal and untainted few, only to have them killed quickly after entering Syria. Then we lose equipment to the insurgents. But where is the coalition of regional stakeholders to deal with this mess?
The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
Putin is just laughing at us, scoffing at our idealistic views and running circles around our nations power by acting decisively with authority and conviction with boots on the ground. In a couple of months he will have Assad secured in place, the middle east awakening finally quelled, and though we will continue to bluster, he will have what he wants.
If we wanted Assad gone, we could have hit him long ago with airpower after crossing the "red line". We could put special forces in to organize a resistance to topple him. It is what SF does.
Fire the current NSC staff, shrink it down to credible thinkers who understand power and put boots on the ground if it is in our interest. We need strategic thinkers to guide our nations power and a president willing to lead.
3
If there are five trained people out there fighting ISIL, that's a cost of only one hundred million per person! If it's only four people that's 125 million per person, a worse situation.
Seriously, the level of incompetence among those who created this program is breathtaking. Where did the monies go?
Dan Kravitz
Seriously, the level of incompetence among those who created this program is breathtaking. Where did the monies go?
Dan Kravitz
3
Yet another enormous foreign policy failure which is the product of neither the Democratic or Republic parties, but of our failure as a nation to reimagine ourselves.
I am an ordinary 26 year old U.S citizen. My living memory of my government's role in the world paints a picture of brutal and unecessary wars of empire . A total lack of empathy for the less fortunate in our society. A culture which caters to corporate profits over people.
If this is the type of nation to which we are citizens, which types of citizens do we expect to raise?
Money, not capitalism, but hard currency exchanged for political favor is a corruption to our democracy. The unbridled avarice of corporate speech makes a cruel mockery of my citizenship and yours.
What can we do? I will make the choice, and I call on others to do the same, to refuse my vote to any candidate who willingly accepts donations, superpac or otherwise, from wall street or the military industrial complex. This candidate must also make the total public financing of campaigns an immediate priority.
To do otherwise would be to consider my citizenship worthless.
I am an ordinary 26 year old U.S citizen. My living memory of my government's role in the world paints a picture of brutal and unecessary wars of empire . A total lack of empathy for the less fortunate in our society. A culture which caters to corporate profits over people.
If this is the type of nation to which we are citizens, which types of citizens do we expect to raise?
Money, not capitalism, but hard currency exchanged for political favor is a corruption to our democracy. The unbridled avarice of corporate speech makes a cruel mockery of my citizenship and yours.
What can we do? I will make the choice, and I call on others to do the same, to refuse my vote to any candidate who willingly accepts donations, superpac or otherwise, from wall street or the military industrial complex. This candidate must also make the total public financing of campaigns an immediate priority.
To do otherwise would be to consider my citizenship worthless.
3
To save money, they'll just be sending ISIS a monthly check.
4
When you consider how past Presidents continued to make the same mistakes over and over again. How they made the mistakes their predecessors did. How they continued ruinous policies of other countries. This President at least has the common sense not to follow in their footsteps. Try several things and see what works. Reverse a decision if it is likely a mistake. Don't throw more money at bad ideas, trying to make them work. Don't do the stupid things. Avoid the big mistakes. These are the simple phrases of real wisdom
If only. This is a mere change in tactics, not goals. Instead of training them and making military units ourselves, we will just be training ones already in place. They will still be our proxies against the Russkies.
So, the "turnover" of military equipment to the enemy was a lie, but the "surrender" of the equipment is the truth, ISIS is the "junior varsity," the Muslim Brotherhood is a moderate, secular, organization, and plans for 5,400 rebel fighters the first year yielded only 4-5. It's painfully clear that the intelligence and strategy --or the part the president is cherry picking--is incompetent, dishonest, and driven by a politically-driven desire to distort a dire situation. For an excellent eyes-wide-open discussion of ISIS, this is very important read:http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wan...
5
Why do we continue to waste billions and even trillions on the endless Wars?
NO ARMS to anybody!
We have spent trillions on the Wars in Afghanistan and Iraq for what?
We did not even get the oil!
We need to stop the endless Wars and instead invest in Green Transit so we can cut Auto Addiction, the root of Oil Addiction, invest in renewable energy instead of fossil fuels roasting the planet, invest in the Green Transition we need to sustain civilization in the age of Peak Oil and Climate Change...
NO ARMS to anybody!
We have spent trillions on the Wars in Afghanistan and Iraq for what?
We did not even get the oil!
We need to stop the endless Wars and instead invest in Green Transit so we can cut Auto Addiction, the root of Oil Addiction, invest in renewable energy instead of fossil fuels roasting the planet, invest in the Green Transition we need to sustain civilization in the age of Peak Oil and Climate Change...
2
ISIS/ISIL are the Obama trained army that was to oust the leader of Syria, but this brainchild back fired and has cost the lives of many innocents. The blood is on the hands of the Obama Regime and the fools that voted him into office not once but twice.
5
Yes, me also.
I would really like to know where the money went. Which war profiteer lined his pocket? NYT, please get an investigative reporter on this trail.
This whole training mission stinks to high heaven of corruption. But I see no information in any article on this disaster where the money went and sadly, none of the commentators seems to be curious.
This whole training mission stinks to high heaven of corruption. But I see no information in any article on this disaster where the money went and sadly, none of the commentators seems to be curious.
6
The rebels wanted to fight Assad, not ISIS. Imposing our political and military strategy on the rebels was doomed from day one. Similarly, our total failure to work with the Kurds, who we've let down time and again, is another travesty.
Mr. Obama wants to appease everyone. He wants to mollify the Turks and satisfy them that the Kurds will not seek, nor ever be strong enough to challenge Turkey and gain independence. He wanted to appease the rebels who he failed to help early on when they could have been most effective but he only wanted them to take on ISIS, contrary to the realities of the battleground where to the rebels, Assad, not ISIS is the greater threat. He also wanted to mollify his opponents and critics at home who characterized his strategy and tactics as ineffective, too little, too late and mis-guided.
In doing nothing in Syria Assad is emboldened and Russia is now moving in to one of the power vacuums that Mr. Obama does not believe exists. Mr. Obama insists that the Russians are acting out of weakness. Tell that to the people on the ground who are being bombed into oblivion by Russians.
Jordan is at risk as is Lebanon and Egypt. ISIS and Al Nusra continue their march. The refugees continue to flee to Europe creating massive political unrest there. And now Russia is looking hard at the Baltic States and Eastern Europe including all the now former Russian states.
Mr. Obama has lost the Mid-East and Eastern Europe. Being paralyzed leads to certain defeat.
Mr. Obama wants to appease everyone. He wants to mollify the Turks and satisfy them that the Kurds will not seek, nor ever be strong enough to challenge Turkey and gain independence. He wanted to appease the rebels who he failed to help early on when they could have been most effective but he only wanted them to take on ISIS, contrary to the realities of the battleground where to the rebels, Assad, not ISIS is the greater threat. He also wanted to mollify his opponents and critics at home who characterized his strategy and tactics as ineffective, too little, too late and mis-guided.
In doing nothing in Syria Assad is emboldened and Russia is now moving in to one of the power vacuums that Mr. Obama does not believe exists. Mr. Obama insists that the Russians are acting out of weakness. Tell that to the people on the ground who are being bombed into oblivion by Russians.
Jordan is at risk as is Lebanon and Egypt. ISIS and Al Nusra continue their march. The refugees continue to flee to Europe creating massive political unrest there. And now Russia is looking hard at the Baltic States and Eastern Europe including all the now former Russian states.
Mr. Obama has lost the Mid-East and Eastern Europe. Being paralyzed leads to certain defeat.
2
This was all about keeping the munitions factories going and letting generals advance their careers, and it has been very successful!
6
After letting all the senior officers from every branch go, who is left to advise the commander in chief? Obviously someone with about the same amount of military experience as our POTUS.
4
Instead, a much smaller training center would be set up in Turkey, where a small group of “enablers” — mostly leaders of opposition groups — would be taught operational maneuvers like how to call in airstrikes.
----------------------
This needs to be ditched too, if the recent hospital bombing has taught us anything...
Who exactly are these rebels calling in airstrikes, and since when does the US military work for them?
----------------------
This needs to be ditched too, if the recent hospital bombing has taught us anything...
Who exactly are these rebels calling in airstrikes, and since when does the US military work for them?
10
And it doesn't seem the program is ending, just being repackaged. The times, of course, is uncritical, it being an Obama initiative
This is a travesty within a larger travesty! Why did the American people get involved in this mess!!?
This is a 'gift' from Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and (disappointingly) Obama.
This is a 'gift' from Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and (disappointingly) Obama.
4
So someone's just realized that spending more on creating ducks to shoot for Russian jets, might not be the best use of our resources? Brilliant!
But I'm sure we'll find some other way to waste a a lot more money over there in some other form. Conviction that resides exclusively on only spending money isn't conviction at all, rather just cowardice and weakness.
But I'm sure we'll find some other way to waste a a lot more money over there in some other form. Conviction that resides exclusively on only spending money isn't conviction at all, rather just cowardice and weakness.
3
Yet another failed Obama policy. The list is endless. January of 2017 can't get here fast enough.
9
If the scores of rebel groups in the 'opposition' are not fighting ISIS they are allies of ISIS and we should not be supporting them, training them to fire mortars, giving them trucks, missiles or guns. When the Russians recently asked for the coordinates of the rebel groups in Syria fighting ISIS and the Pentagon did not provide any, it was because no groups are opposing them in Syria but the Kurds.
10
Half a billion dollars down the drain, along with the other billions that have gone down the drain in Afghanistan and Iraq. Yet Congressional conservatives want to give more money to the Pentagon. Just think of what we could do with that money if we put it towards training and education in the US. Or bridges and roads. Healthcare. Border security. The Arts. After-school programs for disadvantaged youth.
I agree with Donald Trump - if Russia and Syria want to fight ISIS and the rebel subversives, let them. And we should stay out of it.
I agree with Donald Trump - if Russia and Syria want to fight ISIS and the rebel subversives, let them. And we should stay out of it.
35
Way to pass the buck. This was Obama program, not the gop
So if the target was to produce ~5400 trained fighters, capable of defeating ISIS, then at a spend rate of ~$500m, it would have cost us ~$95K to train each fighter, let alone deploy him in combat. If our tax money has produced fewer than ten fighters after nearly a year, well, the math is just as easy as it is dismaying.
Training Muslims to fight Muslims is truly a lost cause. While Sunnis hate Shiites and Shiites hate Sunnis, both of them hate the value systems of western civilized countries just as much, or more. At least according to their theocratic leaders and domestic propaganda organs.
Let the Russians have another Afghanistan. President's Obama's strategy to keep a lower American profile pressures the locals and the unwary to resolve the issue. This is good from a treasury standpoint and avoids inflicting another politically motivated burden on the families of the American military.
As a nation we need to step back and question the competence of our military / congressional / industrial complex, as President Eisenhower labeled it. Today's bloated military is top heavy with generals, colonels, admirals and their like (compare the number of 4 star generals to any time in our history). In addition, our congress and pentagon have created a consulting and mercenary industry that is a constant drain on our taxes.
Good decision to stop the training program. A better decision is not to raise the defense budget given leadership performance for the past ten years.
Training Muslims to fight Muslims is truly a lost cause. While Sunnis hate Shiites and Shiites hate Sunnis, both of them hate the value systems of western civilized countries just as much, or more. At least according to their theocratic leaders and domestic propaganda organs.
Let the Russians have another Afghanistan. President's Obama's strategy to keep a lower American profile pressures the locals and the unwary to resolve the issue. This is good from a treasury standpoint and avoids inflicting another politically motivated burden on the families of the American military.
As a nation we need to step back and question the competence of our military / congressional / industrial complex, as President Eisenhower labeled it. Today's bloated military is top heavy with generals, colonels, admirals and their like (compare the number of 4 star generals to any time in our history). In addition, our congress and pentagon have created a consulting and mercenary industry that is a constant drain on our taxes.
Good decision to stop the training program. A better decision is not to raise the defense budget given leadership performance for the past ten years.
210
The F-35 / A-10 mess is proof of this. We have a plane that works incredible well for close air support. The A-10 is rugged, carries a huge amount of weaponry and is hard to shoot down. It is also slow and ugly and uses "proven" technology. Pilots and the troops on the ground it supports love it.
The leadership wants to retire the plane and replace it with the F-35. The F-35 is a flashy, expensive super high tech fighter that is supposed to do everything, which it does, but poorly. It cannot carry some of the weapons the A-10 carries. But it is new and flashy, and expensive and sexy.
The leadership wants to retire the plane and replace it with the F-35. The F-35 is a flashy, expensive super high tech fighter that is supposed to do everything, which it does, but poorly. It cannot carry some of the weapons the A-10 carries. But it is new and flashy, and expensive and sexy.
1
"As a nation we need to step back and question the competence..."
You should add our intelligence - I use the term loosely - agencies. I have a sneaking suspicion they were all for this.
You should add our intelligence - I use the term loosely - agencies. I have a sneaking suspicion they were all for this.
While I agree with your overall sentiment, this paragraph, even with its qualifications, is misleading:
"Training Muslims to fight Muslims is truly a lost cause. While Sunnis hate Shiites and Shiites hate Sunnis, both of them hate the value systems of western civilized countries just as much, or more. At least according to their theocratic leaders and domestic propaganda organs."
Muslims have fought Muslims many times, at great cost, most notably in the Iran-Iraq War. And the domestic propaganda you refer to plays well not because of our values, but because of our dubious upholding of them. If Iran had overthrown our democratically elected government in 1953, as we did to theirs, I think we'd be chanting "Death to Iran" for decades too.
"Training Muslims to fight Muslims is truly a lost cause. While Sunnis hate Shiites and Shiites hate Sunnis, both of them hate the value systems of western civilized countries just as much, or more. At least according to their theocratic leaders and domestic propaganda organs."
Muslims have fought Muslims many times, at great cost, most notably in the Iran-Iraq War. And the domestic propaganda you refer to plays well not because of our values, but because of our dubious upholding of them. If Iran had overthrown our democratically elected government in 1953, as we did to theirs, I think we'd be chanting "Death to Iran" for decades too.
Game over:
ISIS Ruthless Jihadists 52, Obama's Militant Moderates 0
Time for a new coach?
ISIS Ruthless Jihadists 52, Obama's Militant Moderates 0
Time for a new coach?
7
$500 million to train 5 fighters is reminiscent of Obama's shovel ready jobs.
8
...preceded by 40 years of shovel ready jobs. Wonder who originally came up with this idea?
Or the $500 million of taxpayer funded stimulus money that was thrown away on Solyndra, the failed solar energy company that Obama loved.
What a miserable failure this has been. One must wonder where could this money been better spent in the USA?
17
Clean it up. Back the present Syrian government to the extent required. Support and join with Russia in order to end the ISIS catastrophe, first and foremost. Keep eyes on that ball. Clean it up.
10
WHAT we see again is the Effect and NOT the Cause of US Policy in the Middle East and as long as WE are aligned with the Wahhabi House of Saud, the Sponsors of Al-Qaida, ISIS and 9/11, this is all we are going to get.
WE Have Been And Are On The Wrong Side Of History For Nearly Four Decades.
WE Have Been And Are On The Wrong Side Of History For Nearly Four Decades.
108
What a farce! So, how many Syrians "so called moderate rebels" are fighting Isis? A big 0. They just want to "fight" Asssad's forces, who are fighting Isis. They just want their big Caliphate, and the West will go along, so that Russia doesn't have that naval base. What a circus.
41
That is not true. At least 4 or 5 apparently are still fighting
1
Given the recent 'mistake' bombing of the Afghan hospital, not sure we want these folks calling in airstrikes.
23
This was a misguided effort from the git-go.
The people of Syria have never regarded Americans with any affection, and view us instead as infidels in service to Israel. We have nothing to gain, even theoretically or potentially, by arming any Syrian faction. But we have much to lose through our military adventurism in Islamic nations.
Even when we conquer their governments, our "victories" last only so long as we maintain a military occupation. It is so tragically pointless.
The people of Syria have never regarded Americans with any affection, and view us instead as infidels in service to Israel. We have nothing to gain, even theoretically or potentially, by arming any Syrian faction. But we have much to lose through our military adventurism in Islamic nations.
Even when we conquer their governments, our "victories" last only so long as we maintain a military occupation. It is so tragically pointless.
175
You are wrong Mr. Planarian:
How can you say that the people of Syria regards Americans as infidels?
From this remark you assume that Syrians are all Muslims: You are wrong, up to the mid 19th C., most Syrians were Christians, who of course do not harbor the type of feelings you claim.
Syria was the most tolerant country in the Middle East, and its inhabitants as the most hospitable in the region.
Syrians had been coming to America since the 19th C. Check their history: since then they had been one of the most hard working and educated segments of the American society.
Check the history of Syrians all over the world before posting something not that deep.
How can you say that the people of Syria regards Americans as infidels?
From this remark you assume that Syrians are all Muslims: You are wrong, up to the mid 19th C., most Syrians were Christians, who of course do not harbor the type of feelings you claim.
Syria was the most tolerant country in the Middle East, and its inhabitants as the most hospitable in the region.
Syrians had been coming to America since the 19th C. Check their history: since then they had been one of the most hard working and educated segments of the American society.
Check the history of Syrians all over the world before posting something not that deep.
This Administration has no business in global confrontation or negotiation. The ill-equipped president hired ill-equipped help (for political points), to execute inoffensive and politically correct plans.
We're at a poker game with "go fish" players.
We're at a poker game with "go fish" players.
17
This $500 million "program" should be investigated by a Truman Committee. Need oversight. What we're likely to find is that we were simply dumping arms into a war zone under the auspices of a faux training program.
Pope Francis discussed the arms trade in his speech to Congress, but the U.S. media seemed to totally misunderstand his meaning. "What us? Pour arms into war zones? No way". Yes way.
Then, we need to investigate whether it was our government's intention to use this program coupled with plausible deniability to arm al-Nusra and other al-Qaeda affiliates against Assad.
Pope Francis discussed the arms trade in his speech to Congress, but the U.S. media seemed to totally misunderstand his meaning. "What us? Pour arms into war zones? No way". Yes way.
Then, we need to investigate whether it was our government's intention to use this program coupled with plausible deniability to arm al-Nusra and other al-Qaeda affiliates against Assad.
25
Principia, Obama is caught on the horns of allowing the supposed country that he is nominally the president of to be run by a Disguised Global Crony-Capitalist Empire, that is merely HQed here and 'posing' behind the facade of democracy, and Obama can't break out of his dilemma until and unless he 'outs' this "Empire of Chaos" Escobar, this "Empire of Illusion" Hedges, this "Empire of Neoliberal Geopolitics" Street, and this "Empire of Global Capitalism" Wood and Robinson:
"The U.S. state is a key point of condensation for pressures from dominant groups around the world to resolve problems of global capitalism and to secure the legitimacy of the system overall. In this regard, “U.S.” imperialism refers to the use by transnational elites of the U.S. state apparatus to continue to attempt to expand, defend, and stabilize the global capitalist system. We are witness less to a “U.S.” imperialism per se than to a global capitalist imperialism. We face an empire of global capital , headquartered, for evident historical reasons, in Washington."
Robinson, William 2014 "Global Capital and the Crisis of Humanity" Cambridge Univsity Press
"The U.S. state is a key point of condensation for pressures from dominant groups around the world to resolve problems of global capitalism and to secure the legitimacy of the system overall. In this regard, “U.S.” imperialism refers to the use by transnational elites of the U.S. state apparatus to continue to attempt to expand, defend, and stabilize the global capitalist system. We are witness less to a “U.S.” imperialism per se than to a global capitalist imperialism. We face an empire of global capital , headquartered, for evident historical reasons, in Washington."
Robinson, William 2014 "Global Capital and the Crisis of Humanity" Cambridge Univsity Press
I am very happy to read this. There is no evidence at all that militias currently fighting each other, and fighting Assad care about anything we care about (freedom, equality, democracy). We have plenty of evidence of internecine warfare, and a love for wanton destruction. The refugee crisis horrendous; we should not make the situation worse on the ground by giving more people more ammunition and guns.
Kalidan
Kalidan
4
Bay of Pigs, anyone?
4
Certainly. The failure to recruit and train opposition fighters. The murky distribution of weapons. ISIS successes and now Russia supporting Assad; the US does not want direct conflict with Russia.
2
NYT: "Instead, a much smaller training center would be set up in Turkey, where a small group of 'enablers' — mostly leaders of opposition groups — would be taught operational maneuvers like how to call in airstrikes."
So the new plan is to train a force smaller than "the 'four or five' trainees in the fight in Syria?"
Heckuva job Obama!
So the new plan is to train a force smaller than "the 'four or five' trainees in the fight in Syria?"
Heckuva job Obama!
18
Hah, finally US stop supporting ISIS... Putin beat Obama really hardly...
6
This program is one the biggest failure for Obama administration to believe Tayyip Erdogan and launch this program. Erdogan has his own agenda and use turkey ties with usa to cheat and mislead Obama. How come pentagon can't see this Turkish simple game. Turk's only agenda defeat and destroy kurds gain in Syria, and actually they support jihadist groups. That much simple....
28
An appalling waste of money.
60
A half billion dollars for “four or five” trainees in Syria makes Medicare and Medicaid look extremely efficient. Plus, if an American gets a medically necessary surgery, we know al Qaeda affiliates won't end up with RPG's and a Toyota as a result.
18
Whomever Mr. Bush and Mr. Obama work for is dead set on inserting hand-picked autocrats in countries in Mr. Putin's backyard (Ukraine) and stirring the manure until WWIII happens? I am fairly sure whoever they are has big money invested in arms manufacturers.
Wouldn't their time and energies be better-spent rebuilding Detroit or South Carolina?
Wouldn't their time and energies be better-spent rebuilding Detroit or South Carolina?
15
Finally. The right decision, however late Obama is in making it.
There are NO players in this civil war who deserve an ounce of American military or financial support. The contenders in this Game-of-Thrones are President Assad, a totalitarian psychopath who has used rockets and chemical weapons against his own civilians; the "moderate rebels," composed of Al Qaeda affiliates and other terrorist cells; and ISIS, who needs no introduction.
During the last Republican presidential debate, we heard half the candidates insist that they would cease "leading from behind" and use the full breadth of American military power to somehow stabilize this region. Magically. Once again, we see how removed from reality the GOP is on this issue. They will undoubtedly use this announcement as evidence of Obama's failed leadership, but calling out a hopeless cause with no allies and no end in sight for what it is, to me at least, demonstrates tremendous wisdom. Enough nation building, enough geopolitical hubris disguised as patriotism. End this madness now and stay out of the Middle East.
There are NO players in this civil war who deserve an ounce of American military or financial support. The contenders in this Game-of-Thrones are President Assad, a totalitarian psychopath who has used rockets and chemical weapons against his own civilians; the "moderate rebels," composed of Al Qaeda affiliates and other terrorist cells; and ISIS, who needs no introduction.
During the last Republican presidential debate, we heard half the candidates insist that they would cease "leading from behind" and use the full breadth of American military power to somehow stabilize this region. Magically. Once again, we see how removed from reality the GOP is on this issue. They will undoubtedly use this announcement as evidence of Obama's failed leadership, but calling out a hopeless cause with no allies and no end in sight for what it is, to me at least, demonstrates tremendous wisdom. Enough nation building, enough geopolitical hubris disguised as patriotism. End this madness now and stay out of the Middle East.
235
AND . . . Haven't we become a lot more fuel self-sufficient than ever? Both are a step in the right direction.
Obama will never apologize for this or any other of his blunders. Though he will never admit it, the result pleased him immensely. He squandered and funneled $500 million to the forces of evil.
10
This is one more disaster to add to Obama's foreign policy legacy. Not only is the failure of the program humiliating, but it's stunning that they let is run through $500 million before recognizing its ineffectiveness and terminating it. Isn't there anyone who monitors these programs and recognizes a failed strategy before spending a half billion dollars?
The only organized and effective fighting force in Syria that can oppose Islamic State is the Syrian army. Putin correctly sees this and is supporting them as they attack the jihadists; they actually have a chance for success. The idea that we can recruit and train a contingent of "moderates" to fight ISIS is fantasy.
One report I read in the NYT said that some of our "moderate" forces are fighting alongside Nusra Front which is an al-Qaeda linked jihadist group. Do we really want to be supporting and arming al-Qaeda in Syria?
The only organized and effective fighting force in Syria that can oppose Islamic State is the Syrian army. Putin correctly sees this and is supporting them as they attack the jihadists; they actually have a chance for success. The idea that we can recruit and train a contingent of "moderates" to fight ISIS is fantasy.
One report I read in the NYT said that some of our "moderate" forces are fighting alongside Nusra Front which is an al-Qaeda linked jihadist group. Do we really want to be supporting and arming al-Qaeda in Syria?
33
While $500 million is surely a lot of money to any individual, it is important to judge numbers in the proper context.
The United States' military budget for 2015 was $598 billion. $500 million is only equal to .08% of the budget.
Another way to look at it is that $500 million funds our entire military for about eight hours.
That's peanuts.
If you wish to make additional defense spending comparisons, I'd point you to the Iraq War, which cost somewhere between $1 trillion and $3 trillion, if not higher. Those are unfathomable amounts of money that would fund the world's largest military for years.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not happy about $500 million down the drain, but it's not a lot in the grand scheme of things, the plug was pulled pretty early, and we've had *far* worse in recent memory.
The United States' military budget for 2015 was $598 billion. $500 million is only equal to .08% of the budget.
Another way to look at it is that $500 million funds our entire military for about eight hours.
That's peanuts.
If you wish to make additional defense spending comparisons, I'd point you to the Iraq War, which cost somewhere between $1 trillion and $3 trillion, if not higher. Those are unfathomable amounts of money that would fund the world's largest military for years.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not happy about $500 million down the drain, but it's not a lot in the grand scheme of things, the plug was pulled pretty early, and we've had *far* worse in recent memory.
Republicans complaining about failed efforts overseas and the sheer waste of money, and, on top of that, still demanding that everyone else fight their wishful battles.
As laughable as it gets.
As laughable as it gets.
Score another win for Putin. That guy can't wake up in the morning without humiliating Barack America.
19
Will you get back to us in a month or so, maybe less, when Putin's excellent adventure goes south in Syria? Some of us remember with disgust the glory days of "shock and awe" , "stuff happens" and "mission accomplished from the Bush 2 administration.
Wish I had multiple advanced degrees from Harvard and Georgetown so I could be as smart as our foreign policy "elites" in D.C.
51
They just don't know who to buy with all our taxpayer money... which side do we want to fund today??
1
Get a third-generation farmer, a Union shop steward in a manufacturing plant, and a street-smart cop together and they could pick apart the decisions of our foreign policy "elites" in D. C. Then let them study Congress......both sides of the aisle - what a report that would be!
William F. Buckley Jr: "I'd rather entrust the government of the United States to the first 400 people listed in the Boston telephone directory than to the faculty of Harvard University."
William F. Buckley Jr: "I'd rather entrust the government of the United States to the first 400 people listed in the Boston telephone directory than to the faculty of Harvard University."
Better to cancel a poorly performing plan now than to keep throwing money down the drain. Syria (like Iraq, Afghanistan, etc..) have so many layers of problems that we really need to take a long hard look whether we have the will and resources to try to fix them.
9
So, our fearless leader has abandoned another ally as a sign of allegiance to honor. Tell me more about this guy so I truly understand our President!
5
500 million dollars. It's sad to wonder What could have been done with that money right here in the United States. The shocking part and the most telling is the lack of outrage at this point from the general public. Is the American Taxpayer is just numb and beyond the reach of shock, or is that the American Press protects president Obama to such a degree that no dirt no matter how staining can land on his administration. Can you imagine what would have happened to a President like Nixon who the Press hated, if he was responsible for such a disgusting waste of the publics treasure.
The big takeaway from all this is that an absent press core, allows its Government to do any bit of foolishness it wants, since the Government is not held to any liability by the fourth estate. The responsibilities of the Press in a free republic cannot be understated.
The Press is the watchdog of Democracy.
The big takeaway from all this is that an absent press core, allows its Government to do any bit of foolishness it wants, since the Government is not held to any liability by the fourth estate. The responsibilities of the Press in a free republic cannot be understated.
The Press is the watchdog of Democracy.
65
The American public cannot complain or criticize this president or his performance: He is black. It would be racist to criticize. Wait him out...
1
"Protects President Obama..."
500 million is a drop in the bucket compared to the money and lives spent on the Bush wars.
The money was spent in a losing effort to clean up the remains of the Bush mess.
500 million is a drop in the bucket compared to the money and lives spent on the Bush wars.
The money was spent in a losing effort to clean up the remains of the Bush mess.
Proportionality is important, as is precedent. Unfortunately we seem to be Repeating failures of the later while the former seems to be The numbing agent. Who was the last time you were shocked by government waste? And when it comes to fighting "terrorism" not even the staunchest GOPer seems to have a spending limit...
Props to our armed forces who attempted to train these rebels; they deserve our praise and gratitude. The change in policy has nothing to do with our armed forces attempt and effort.
By the way, can someone name a case, in US history, where we've armed/trained the rebels and were successful? "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. (George Santayana)"
By the way, can someone name a case, in US history, where we've armed/trained the rebels and were successful? "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. (George Santayana)"
120
Stop with the overglorification of "hero" worship.
Just stop.
They didn't really accomplish anything.
And the smart ones know it.
Just stop.
They didn't really accomplish anything.
And the smart ones know it.
7
David...other than South Korea, I can't think of an example. And, the South Koreans weren't rebels; they were motivated anti-Communists. Lastly, that was over 60 years ago.
After so many failures, why do successive administrations think "this time will be different?".
After so many failures, why do successive administrations think "this time will be different?".
4
Like other true Americans I feel that our armed services are constantly bombarded by unjust and unkind criticism. Our military is the best part of us. It is time for people to recognize this and giving it the unconditional support that it deserves. It is also time to free the military from political leadership that sends it on useless missions such as this. Freedom!!!
5
It takes courage to admit mistakes. Thank you Mr. Carter and President Obama for ending this program, before another half billion dollars are wasted. Perhaps somebody learned an important lesson from Vietnam.
238
Yes indeed, thank you President Obama and Mr. Carter for not wasting more than an easily affordable half a billion dollars on this naive misjudgment.
1
It takes elementary intelligence -- and listening to one's military advisers -- to avoid embarking on inevitably doomed programs.
5
The Vietnam lesson is about a free, probing press that works to unveil government secrets and misdeeds. How long would this spending have continued with no results? How much military waste can be uncovered? Billions are lost and unaccounted for, billions are pumped into Iraq and Afghanistan for the purpose of destruction, then abandoned. What those billions could have done in the name of aid and development.
2
Did we not just learn what happens when enablers call in airstrikes? If we can't determine targets, verify it's a clear target, and conduct bombings on our own, we shouldn't do it at all.
30
This is the comment that should have earned the Times' gold star ranking.
8
About time. There are no moderate rebels.
70
How did the US think they could train "moderate rebels" to fight on the ground, hand-to-hand? Most of the "enemy" are their friends and neighbors, or are in the same tribe. It isn't WW2 anymore; no clear friends and enemies. Wake up!
6
Most likely, we would have been able to train "moderate rebels" to fight Assad, but not ISI[S or L]. The entire Pentagon effort was to train people to fight ISIS only because aside from what little the CIA has been doing, the President seems never to have been interested in actually fighting Assad with something more than words.
2
Maybe it's time to evaluate the spending on Iraqi and Afghan training too.
59
So far, every effort by this administration in the Middle East has failed: Iraq pullout, Afghanistan build-up, wrecking of Libya, backing Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, ignoring ISIS, waffling on Syria, etc. Now that 'we' joined with Russia et al in freeing Iran from the sanctions shackles, Russia has partnered with them to begin their hegemony in across the Middle East, not to mention their former satellite states. Job Well Done! Is Obama just as isolationist as Rand Paul?
8
Nice post - until you decided to insult Rand Paul. If Rand Paul had been president, we wouldn't have been in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, and Syria.
We're not getting our money's worth? We're not being efficient and effective? We're wasting time, treasure and lives? Welcome to the 21st Century, Pentagon panderers. Why don't you use your strategists and tacticians to figure out some ways to have your many, many contractors and industrial enablers do something constructive, such as improving the infrastructure of our homeland. Don't you think a Cruise missile or drone maker could be repurposed to make trains and other transportation equipment? Our highways and electrical grid could use some attention too. Aren't they good enough to do this? Are you intelligent enough to suggest and enable it? I doubt it, but I'd wish you'd try.
120
At $100 million per fighter it is long past time this farce was ended. Obama's attempt to have no real strategy, just an excuse for one so he could sneak off stage in 2016, is now fully exposed. He and Miss Rice may need to go on all Sunday talk shows and explain what a victory this is to all who are tone-deaf and will listen; like she did in 2012 over Libya.
16
What? You mean having 9 "Syrian moderates" still fighting after having spent $500M was not a worthwhile investment???
7
9? it's 5, if they are still alive. They have not heard from them in months.
2
There was a fundamental problem with this program; foreigners can't make Muslims kill their brethren. They may kill one another for sectarian or other reason but infidels are not allowed to hurt other Muslims.
Now that Putin is doing the dirty job let him do it and get more involved. If we get rid of the cold war mentality and not panic because Russians have some influence there, we will benefit in the long run.
It's called killing two birds without throwing a stone.
Now that Putin is doing the dirty job let him do it and get more involved. If we get rid of the cold war mentality and not panic because Russians have some influence there, we will benefit in the long run.
It's called killing two birds without throwing a stone.
51
ISIS and Assad are both legitimate targets to the majority of Islamis Sunnis opposition.
ISIS has become a global cult, and the vast majority of Sunnis in the Middle East dislike them, in fact, I only see it gaining popularity among Western Muslims who didn't have the chance to learn Islam except within Islamophobic and racist societies. But even with ISIS being a target of Sunni Arabs, Assad IS the number ONE focus, HE is why the rebels took arms and HE is the reason why ISIS exists in Syria. And the sooner the US gets this, the sooner it will gain back its influence.
ISIS has become a global cult, and the vast majority of Sunnis in the Middle East dislike them, in fact, I only see it gaining popularity among Western Muslims who didn't have the chance to learn Islam except within Islamophobic and racist societies. But even with ISIS being a target of Sunni Arabs, Assad IS the number ONE focus, HE is why the rebels took arms and HE is the reason why ISIS exists in Syria. And the sooner the US gets this, the sooner it will gain back its influence.
2
Makes sense for us to close down the camps in Syria, since most rebels are now in Germany.
54
The headline is that we ended this.
The story is that we are doing something different, likely more effective.
Now we are training them to call in airstrikes. That empowers us, not whoever they give our weapons. We remain in control, and wield the power.
Altogether more sensible, if we are to be there at all.
Yet the headline will inspire hawks to cry out that we are giving up.
The story is that we are doing something different, likely more effective.
Now we are training them to call in airstrikes. That empowers us, not whoever they give our weapons. We remain in control, and wield the power.
Altogether more sensible, if we are to be there at all.
Yet the headline will inspire hawks to cry out that we are giving up.
8
"Today, we will learn how to spot a hospital and read GPS coordinates. There will be a quiz."
20
Airstrikes with Al Qaeda affiliates giving the strike coordinates? What can possibly go wrong?
I expect the Russians to declare all of Syria a no fly zone for NATO. They are supporting the recognized government of Syria, while we do the usual cowboy missions, not bothering about international law or obtaining UN security council resolutions.
I expect the Russians to declare all of Syria a no fly zone for NATO. They are supporting the recognized government of Syria, while we do the usual cowboy missions, not bothering about international law or obtaining UN security council resolutions.
17
So it ends - half a billion of US taxpeyer money down the tubes.
140
No American lives lost as far as we know.
1
I wonder how many refugees could have been "resettled" with that money.
Tis a shame...
Tis a shame...
4
Better than any more of US taxpayer money. We can thank the Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz/Rice for putting this on our deficit.
1
Maybe they finally remembered how they trained their friends from Taliban?
81