The first question one should ask is how does the action in question serve to bolster Putin's domestic cult of personality. A confrontational approach to Russia is exactly what Putin wants. This is not Russia versus the world, it is Putin the egotist versus every other human on the planet.
Why don't we just stay out of this fight? If the Russians/Syrians/Iranians win, things go back to "normal" in the middle east, minus the fact that Syria is no longer a functioning state with a sway of its own. Everyone is an enemy or a potential enemy in this fight, so, save ourselves time and increasingly scarce money and just let other forces shape the fight on the ground. All the tribal alliances and literally byzantine politics of the middle east are on full display here. We stick our hand into this mess, it results in dead soldiers and large amounts of money spent, for literally nothing gained.
Having Jihadists forces smashed in a decisive defeat is worth "losing" a potential proxy war to Russia in Syria.
Having Jihadists forces smashed in a decisive defeat is worth "losing" a potential proxy war to Russia in Syria.
1
Putin will continue to strengthen his forces and influence in Syria and will extract them only when economic pressure against Russia is eliminated. Bashir and Syria are only pawns to be cashiered when the time is ripe.
turkey aircraft are overflying syria and so is the US. If a russian aircrat flies over a little turkey so what. As long as they do not attack anything. It not worth getting a shooting war started.
Why does Russia feel so compelled to lie? One one day, they say they will bomb ISIS, and the next, that they will not send ground troops. Today, we hear they will send ground troops to fight the rebels we have backed, but they fraudulently call their troops "volunteers"
It seems so pointless for Russia to behave in this way.
I guess we just have to wait they have really truly committed their forces, and then ensure they have a nice, long, expensive, high-casualty stay in Syria.
It seems so pointless for Russia to behave in this way.
I guess we just have to wait they have really truly committed their forces, and then ensure they have a nice, long, expensive, high-casualty stay in Syria.
2
Putin may try some maskirovka in the Baltics before the end of the President's term...will the President blink on NATO's red line in Latvia, Estonia ad Lithuania?
1
Ex-KGB agent Putin is fueling the End of Times theory of terrorists by his invasion. What is he going to achieve different than what coalition have been already bombing for over a year? The better thing was for him to send troops on the ground but the clown too is afraid like Obama. This "volunteer" forces trick will backfire as Jihadists who are already in thousands from Russia will flood more than the "volunteers. May be Putin wants to take on his own Jihadists in others turf.
When the communist Chinese entered the Korean War, they did so by sending 200,000 volunteers of the People's Liberation Army (PLA) across the Yalu River in the dead of winter. I wonder how many Russian volunteers will go into Syria? It really does not matter. It's a losing proposition from day one. This will only prolong the civil war.
Years ago, Putin promised to protect the ancient and indigenous Christians of the Middle East. Whereas all the loudly proclaimed "Christians" of the Republican Party are content to shake their heads and cluck, the Russians are actually doing something practical to fight against the Islamic State, which seems to feel that rape, murder, and desecration are fine and dandy. What could possibly be wrong with that?
4
Please let's stop all this reflex Putin-hating. If NATO and the USA can't drain the swamp, then by all means, let's welcome Russia. I would have also made a deal with the Soviets to defeat Hitler, and I will gladly make a deal with Russia to obliterate Daesh.
And let's be clear if the Daseh cowards decapitate a Russian, they shall reap the whirlwind. Dash is a typical Middle Eastern army of cowards: they are not that good at fighting other armies, but they excel at terrorizing civilians.
And let's be clear if the Daseh cowards decapitate a Russian, they shall reap the whirlwind. Dash is a typical Middle Eastern army of cowards: they are not that good at fighting other armies, but they excel at terrorizing civilians.
8
Russia will not allow Syria to fall and lose their main naval base in the Mediteranian Sea. No way would Putin allow that! We wouldn't either.
The USA has made a total mess of the Middle east, so if the Russians want to die fighting ISIL let them. yes, i know they will wipe out Pro-Freedom fighters too. That's why we should have armed the Kurd's.
The USA has made a total mess of the Middle east, so if the Russians want to die fighting ISIL let them. yes, i know they will wipe out Pro-Freedom fighters too. That's why we should have armed the Kurd's.
1
Just let Putin unloading well. It is good for all nations who do not like terrorists.
This appears to me to be push back by Putin after the intimacy of Netanyahu the nightmare and our Congress.
Viewing these developments in a realistic manner, it appears that the involvement of Russian ground troops in Syria, irrespective if irregulars or regular detachments, will prolong the combat. Accordingly, one of the areas with collateral consequences of these actions will be Western Europe and the European Union. Look for increases and continual streams of migrants attempting to reach Western Europe. It would appear that the European Union, under Article 42 (Mutual Defence Clause), will very likely eventually be immersed in the conflict. Assuming the discipline and desire, the European Union, with over 500 million inhabitants and a GDP equivalent to the US, has more than enough capacity to resolve the situation. The United States, with no immediate threat to its security, should, at most, only provide logistical assistance and support.
1
Putin should remember the old adage "you break it you bought it." Apparently the USSR's fiasco in Afghanistan is part of the glorious Soviet past Putin has forgotten. It is callous I know, but I am tired of the world expecting the US to solve intractable problems in the Mideast - even the ones we had a hand in creating. Let the Russians waste their lives and treasure for a while.
1
I guess Putin doesn't realize how his army of trolls only reinforces the perception that he's delusional.
1
Buzzy's not upset about that Afghan hospital:
"What is your point, that the intended target was the hospital and thus a war crime? This is doubtful."
Indeed you should be skeptical. I heard the Taliban put "fake" patients in the hospital just to make the US look bad -- you know, the old "human shields" trick. One report even said the hospital was built, years ago, for the secret purpose of using it some day to embarrass the Americans.
Is nothing beyond those nasty Taliban guys? Next thing you know, they'll be bombing a hospital!
"What is your point, that the intended target was the hospital and thus a war crime? This is doubtful."
Indeed you should be skeptical. I heard the Taliban put "fake" patients in the hospital just to make the US look bad -- you know, the old "human shields" trick. One report even said the hospital was built, years ago, for the secret purpose of using it some day to embarrass the Americans.
Is nothing beyond those nasty Taliban guys? Next thing you know, they'll be bombing a hospital!
3
What a load of internet conspiracy theories you have.
Go ask Doctors Without Borders about it. Go find out from them if their dead staff was tending to fake Taliban patients to embarrass the USA.
Go ask Doctors Without Borders about it. Go find out from them if their dead staff was tending to fake Taliban patients to embarrass the USA.
2
Shark...I don't think you saw the sarcasm. Read it again.
Just curious what you think. Why would be the motivation for the US to attack the hospital?
"The Americans are fighting the terrorists, is Russia with us on this? Their flight over allied Turkish territory suggests otherwise."
Whatever one may say about Putin, he's been pretty straightforward about this: He's helping out his buddy, Assad. To you, that may imply certain restrictions, such as: "OK if you help out Assad by bombing ISIS, but that's the only way you can help him." But to Putin, helping out his buddy, Assad, means helping out his buddy, Assad -- period. If Assad wants him to bomb ISIS, he'll bomb ISIS. If Assad instead wants him to bomb some enemies that we happen to like, Putin will bomb some enemies that we happen to like.
In other words, Putin may be less willing than you would like to observe the restrictions you would like.
Whatever one may say about Putin, he's been pretty straightforward about this: He's helping out his buddy, Assad. To you, that may imply certain restrictions, such as: "OK if you help out Assad by bombing ISIS, but that's the only way you can help him." But to Putin, helping out his buddy, Assad, means helping out his buddy, Assad -- period. If Assad wants him to bomb ISIS, he'll bomb ISIS. If Assad instead wants him to bomb some enemies that we happen to like, Putin will bomb some enemies that we happen to like.
In other words, Putin may be less willing than you would like to observe the restrictions you would like.
5
Such is the advantage of a despot.
Please dear readers understand that these fully-armed white guys in uniform without insignia whose Arabic is weak are here to save Syrians from terrorists.
Why dont the Turks complain, or do we carry their water for them? And now that Russian "volunteers" are becoming a settled major ground force in the world, you can expect them in Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Belarus and the Stans. Too bad none of our folks in WDC ever read a history book or they would see the parallels with Germany in 1937-39.
"The Russian military briefs daily that their strikes are taken with "smart" bombs ... Followed by a video ... showing a strike using decidedly dumb cluster bombs."
Thanks for pointing this out! I sure hope they don't bomb a hospital, don't you?
Thanks for pointing this out! I sure hope they don't bomb a hospital, don't you?
3
These are not cluster bombs, but the navigation.
The videos are smart bombs, there is also a video of a Su25 doing a strafing run, like the A10, or the Apache.
Otherwise, it's KA-500 laser guided bombs by Su24's.
Otherwise, it's KA-500 laser guided bombs by Su24's.
"People should be very concerned about this."
You're probably right. But somehow I'm not. Russian planes should stay in Syrian airspace, and I sure hope they will going forward. But it's not all that big a deal. After all, Russia is hardly the first country to fly uninvited in some other country's airspace. The US is doing it every day, and has been for quite some time. I don't recall the Syrian government ever granting permission to the US.
You're probably right. But somehow I'm not. Russian planes should stay in Syrian airspace, and I sure hope they will going forward. But it's not all that big a deal. After all, Russia is hardly the first country to fly uninvited in some other country's airspace. The US is doing it every day, and has been for quite some time. I don't recall the Syrian government ever granting permission to the US.
5
Russia could get bogged down in a land war.
Or it could strengthen Assad in the non-ISIS portions of Syria, and then cut a deal with ISIS. Guess who that would leave out?)
Or it could strengthen Assad in the non-ISIS portions of Syria, and then cut a deal with ISIS. Guess who that would leave out?)
"But with Assad back in power, at least we will not have ISIS killing Christians, widespread beheadings, homosexuals thrown to their death off buildings and he does not make a practice of blowing up ancient ruins and killing those in charge of preserving them. Somehow I think the Syrian people may welcome Assad 'back in power'."
Why guess? Take a poll. I'll bet dollars to donuts that you're correct.
Why guess? Take a poll. I'll bet dollars to donuts that you're correct.
2
If Chechnian units (probably best fighters in the world) enter in Syria on behalf of Russia (as they did in Krimea) to defend Syrian regime then all the terrorist (both isis and the ones we support al nusra etc) will be defeated and Assad regime will survive. No matter how bad (and he wasn't that bad comparing with thugs we supported for decades) Assad's government is way better then anything else.
6
A totally unsubstatiated and untrue post if there ever was one. The US nor any other western power is supporting Al Nusra. In fact the West is attacking them.
4
The US is sending weapons, money, and materiel to our friends the rebels, who then turn them over to alQueda, ISIS and Nusra. This is a documented fact.
The first warehouses the Russians bombed, were alQueda and Nusra, and were full our our stuff we gave to our buddies the rebels.
The first warehouses the Russians bombed, were alQueda and Nusra, and were full our our stuff we gave to our buddies the rebels.
2
The whole Europe and the world is aware that we support AlNusra even al kaida and directly or indirectly Isis through Saudi Arabia and others for the reason of hoping to 'finally' destroy and break apart Iraq and Syria.
I'm more interested in why President Obama did not immediately go on television to apologize for the U.S. bombing of the Doctors Without Borders hospital in the city of Kunduz. Regardless of the cause or who to blame the fact still remains that U.S. planes bombed the hospital.
President Obama went on National TV to express his deep regret for drone attacks in Pakistan that killed two Americans. Aren't the lives of innocent Muslims just as important as the two Americans killed in the drone strike?
President Obama went on National TV to express his deep regret for drone attacks in Pakistan that killed two Americans. Aren't the lives of innocent Muslims just as important as the two Americans killed in the drone strike?
8
I wonder if anyone from the President on down to the punditry really understands the darkest potential of Putin's plans. His move into Syria was preceded by Qassem Suleimani's trip to Russia. This suggests his moves are as much about Iran as they are about Syria.
In his recent 60 Minutes interview, Putin spoke of what a terrible tragedy the breakup of the Soviet Union was. This is another very telling indicator.
I would suggest it is possible that Putin's real endgame is all about the Baltic States, the Ukraine and possibly, eventually, Eastern Europe. By moving into Syria, he is exacerbating that situation and further empowering Iran's influence in the region. Both moves, especially if coupled with a violation of the Iran nuke agreement (which Putin might plan on facilitating), could push the U.S. into another long and costly engagement in the Middle East. With hawkish policies being spouted by every contender for the Presidency except Bernie Sanders, Putin knows he can manipulate us into such a war.
Once we're engaged again in the Middle East, that creates an opening for Putin to annex all of Ukraine and go into the Baltic States. Sure, there will be NATO opposition, but the U.S. will either need to sit out the war in Europe or literally be drawn into World War III. He imagines a lack of political will for the latter, resulting in the former and possibly a subsequent withdrawal of the United States from NATO.
Now that's an endgame.
In his recent 60 Minutes interview, Putin spoke of what a terrible tragedy the breakup of the Soviet Union was. This is another very telling indicator.
I would suggest it is possible that Putin's real endgame is all about the Baltic States, the Ukraine and possibly, eventually, Eastern Europe. By moving into Syria, he is exacerbating that situation and further empowering Iran's influence in the region. Both moves, especially if coupled with a violation of the Iran nuke agreement (which Putin might plan on facilitating), could push the U.S. into another long and costly engagement in the Middle East. With hawkish policies being spouted by every contender for the Presidency except Bernie Sanders, Putin knows he can manipulate us into such a war.
Once we're engaged again in the Middle East, that creates an opening for Putin to annex all of Ukraine and go into the Baltic States. Sure, there will be NATO opposition, but the U.S. will either need to sit out the war in Europe or literally be drawn into World War III. He imagines a lack of political will for the latter, resulting in the former and possibly a subsequent withdrawal of the United States from NATO.
Now that's an endgame.
Maybe we should leave Putin with the Middle East. Should do wonders for the Russian economy like it helped ours. Putin must be a Republican!
1
Again, the content of the article changes.
Okay, Turkey is screaming foul. Yet a little over a year ago, Turkey was letting the Kurds get hit hard by ISIS and other tribes were slaughtered by ISIS.
Remember, the Turkish leader is for the islamic brotherhood. If you like him, then you should take the Midnight Express to Turkey.
Okay, Turkey is screaming foul. Yet a little over a year ago, Turkey was letting the Kurds get hit hard by ISIS and other tribes were slaughtered by ISIS.
Remember, the Turkish leader is for the islamic brotherhood. If you like him, then you should take the Midnight Express to Turkey.
4
Where was NATO when the USA, France, Turkey and Israel "violated" Syria's air space?
8
A simple illustration of Russian (Putin) duplicity.
The Russian military briefs daily that their strikes are taken with "smart" bombs and accurate within 5 meters.
Followed by a video (provided by the Russian military) showing a strike using decidedly dumb cluster bombs.
The Russian military briefs daily that their strikes are taken with "smart" bombs and accurate within 5 meters.
Followed by a video (provided by the Russian military) showing a strike using decidedly dumb cluster bombs.
One correction; The rebel area should be clearly identified as Jabhat Al-Nusra area, the strongest group; however, they are Al-Qaida affiliate.
I thought Al-Qaida is an enemy, because they are the enemy.
It is amazing how certain individuals or group can sell their soul.
I thought Al-Qaida is an enemy, because they are the enemy.
It is amazing how certain individuals or group can sell their soul.
5
A week ago, any one hitting alQueda or ISIS was a righteous warrior.
This week, we are intervening on their behalf. Last week, any one bombing a warehouse of their weapons, was a hero. This week, those poor misunderstood people.
Shame on our government for siding with alQueda. For shame.
This week, we are intervening on their behalf. Last week, any one bombing a warehouse of their weapons, was a hero. This week, those poor misunderstood people.
Shame on our government for siding with alQueda. For shame.
1
They say we aren't in a Cold War pt.2, but these proxy battles are increasingly starting to look like Afghanistan did back when we fought the Russians in the 70's and 80's.
Russia has quickly surpassed China as the super power to keep a wary eye on. At least with China we only really have to worry about hacking and their economy; Russia presents the real possibility of another war.
As always I hope cooler heads prevail and we can avert dragging this country, and the rest of the world, down a dangerous path of self-destruction.
Russia has quickly surpassed China as the super power to keep a wary eye on. At least with China we only really have to worry about hacking and their economy; Russia presents the real possibility of another war.
As always I hope cooler heads prevail and we can avert dragging this country, and the rest of the world, down a dangerous path of self-destruction.
"Russia has quickly surpassed China as the super power to keep a wary eye on."
Exactly as predicted by Mitt Romney! Obama ridiculed him , assuring us that Russia, like the rest of the world, was so deeply in love with Obama that they'd do whatever he asked of them
Exactly as predicted by Mitt Romney! Obama ridiculed him , assuring us that Russia, like the rest of the world, was so deeply in love with Obama that they'd do whatever he asked of them
On Russia and Syria: There are some hard geopolitical truths we must come to terms with when we discourse on Russia's meddling in Syria, which is fast disintegrating as a nation, with half of its population displaced, millions of its
citizens fleeing their country as refugees, and more than a million of its young adults and children orphaned. Turning a blind eye to these horrible realities, Mr. Putin is focusing his entire attention on one thing, and one thing alone: How to ensure that Mr. Bashar al-Assad, Syria's Shiite ruler, with a largely Shiite modern army and air force, will continue to rule Syria, and will remain an ally of both Russia and Iran. A Syria ruled by either ISIS or any of the other rebel groups, is inconceivable for Mr. Putin because it will foment strife between Kremlin and its Muslim population. If a war between NATO powers and Russia over Syria is to be avoided--and it should be, by all means--President Obama must invite Mr. Putin, along with the leaders of all NATO countries, and the Iranian President Ayatollah Rouhani, and convince the Russian leader that a dictator like Mr. Bashar al-Assad, whose army has killed over 250,000 Syrians, used WMD on its own people,, and brought his own country to total anarchy could not continue as Syria's ruler anymore. In exchange for pulling out its men and materiel from Syria, NATO and the U S would assure Mr. Putin that Syria under a new democratically-elected leader wouldn't meddle in Russia's politics.
citizens fleeing their country as refugees, and more than a million of its young adults and children orphaned. Turning a blind eye to these horrible realities, Mr. Putin is focusing his entire attention on one thing, and one thing alone: How to ensure that Mr. Bashar al-Assad, Syria's Shiite ruler, with a largely Shiite modern army and air force, will continue to rule Syria, and will remain an ally of both Russia and Iran. A Syria ruled by either ISIS or any of the other rebel groups, is inconceivable for Mr. Putin because it will foment strife between Kremlin and its Muslim population. If a war between NATO powers and Russia over Syria is to be avoided--and it should be, by all means--President Obama must invite Mr. Putin, along with the leaders of all NATO countries, and the Iranian President Ayatollah Rouhani, and convince the Russian leader that a dictator like Mr. Bashar al-Assad, whose army has killed over 250,000 Syrians, used WMD on its own people,, and brought his own country to total anarchy could not continue as Syria's ruler anymore. In exchange for pulling out its men and materiel from Syria, NATO and the U S would assure Mr. Putin that Syria under a new democratically-elected leader wouldn't meddle in Russia's politics.
" Mr. Bashar al-Assad, whose army has killed over 250,000 Syrians, used WMD on its own people,, and brought his own country to total anarchy could not continue as Syria's ruler anymore. "
Very bad misrepresentation of the facts. Are the rebels, al Qaeda, ISIS, 41 different groups of rebels, responsible for Syrian deaths? How is it that approx. 56,000 Syrian troops are among the dead per this article by a well respected Mid-East journalist. Who killed the 56,000 Syrian troops?
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/syria-s-moderates-have-disappeared-a...
Very bad misrepresentation of the facts. Are the rebels, al Qaeda, ISIS, 41 different groups of rebels, responsible for Syrian deaths? How is it that approx. 56,000 Syrian troops are among the dead per this article by a well respected Mid-East journalist. Who killed the 56,000 Syrian troops?
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/syria-s-moderates-have-disappeared-a...
If the Russians wish to enter the quagmire then perhaps we should offer transportation for them. Their forces are not better than ours and they will be ground up like sausage. No vital American interests are involved in this complex conflict.
1
How embarrassing!
The US cannot and will not protect its allies!
Shocking, but understandable, the US has no one who knows how to win a war. After all, we haven't won any for decades. And if you study historical military blunders and think about what the US is doing then you begin to fear our military leaders are bookish, lacking practical experience, and have learned nothing from the books.
The US cannot and will not protect its allies!
Shocking, but understandable, the US has no one who knows how to win a war. After all, we haven't won any for decades. And if you study historical military blunders and think about what the US is doing then you begin to fear our military leaders are bookish, lacking practical experience, and have learned nothing from the books.
I was just writing about this, in terms of the potential jihad factor and Russia playing with fire, and I would love to hear people's thoughts on my piece
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/putins-reckless-syria-escalation-makes-ru...
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/putins-reckless-syria-escalation-makes-ru...
1
Apparently President Obama still has apparatchiks from the Neocon universe advising him for it is clearly illusionary for anyone to believe that any cohesive opposition not aligned with Isis is going to replace Assad. Syrian opposition groups are in some cases no better than either Isis or Assad. At this stage of the swimsuit competition any opposition group eager for arms is going to tell Americans whatever our culturally ignorant minds want to hear. Unlike Iraq, Syria is chiefly, Sunni, not Shiite.
Far better to truly look at the granular level of who is supporting Isis (Saudi Arabia, et al Sunnis) and sanction them...exactly, not going to happen. Good luck Russia! After all they are the ones aligned with our Iraqi (ally?). Apparently we can only work jointly with Iraq against Isis--in Iraq. Keep in mind, there is no Shiite terrorist group taking over territory and bent on creating a caliphate, only Isis and their Sunni supporters are.
Given President Obama's mangled approach to Syria, it is apparent that in his National Security Council they are still parroting "will be greeted as liberators" and "Nation Building 3.0". Mr. President, ditch your neocon advisors for they've never gotten anything right, just look at the disarray arising from Netanyahu's policies.
Far better to truly look at the granular level of who is supporting Isis (Saudi Arabia, et al Sunnis) and sanction them...exactly, not going to happen. Good luck Russia! After all they are the ones aligned with our Iraqi (ally?). Apparently we can only work jointly with Iraq against Isis--in Iraq. Keep in mind, there is no Shiite terrorist group taking over territory and bent on creating a caliphate, only Isis and their Sunni supporters are.
Given President Obama's mangled approach to Syria, it is apparent that in his National Security Council they are still parroting "will be greeted as liberators" and "Nation Building 3.0". Mr. President, ditch your neocon advisors for they've never gotten anything right, just look at the disarray arising from Netanyahu's policies.
6
If President Vladimir Putin joins Adm. Vladimir Komoyedov, at the head of these volunteers, I will be able to sleep better at night.
1
"The Misadventures of Putin in Syria." It sounds like a comedy, but it will be a tragedy. The only thing Putin has going for himself here is that he's got such a tight grip on Russia that the Russian people can't intervene politically to stop him.
1
"..Forty-one rebel factions that oppose Mr. Assad said in a statement on Monday that Russia’s “brutal occupation has cut the road to any political solution.”
Rebel factions? Seriously? These are al Qaeda affiliates. Why should we care what they want, or don't want?
Why is it such a surprise that Putin is blowing up threats to Russia's claim to Tartous and an energy transit area?
I'm no fan of Russia, but let me tell you, the reporting on this war is nothing short of insane.
Rebel factions? Seriously? These are al Qaeda affiliates. Why should we care what they want, or don't want?
Why is it such a surprise that Putin is blowing up threats to Russia's claim to Tartous and an energy transit area?
I'm no fan of Russia, but let me tell you, the reporting on this war is nothing short of insane.
7
Bingo .. we have a winner
Cognitive dissonance of epic proportions.
Doesn't matter.
FP by its very nature is the essence of unavoidable reality.
Cognitive dissonance of epic proportions.
Doesn't matter.
FP by its very nature is the essence of unavoidable reality.
Good for them! In 10 years they too can have thrown away trillions of dollars and lost thousands of lives for no good reason.
5
Best thing that could happen is Putin getting involved in Syria. The Russians have obviously learned nothing from their encounter in Afghanistan. They deserve each other. We can check back with them in 10 years and nothing will have changed. Mules, all.
Making fun of Russia for Afghanistan , yet do you forget about the U.S, in Iraq? How about the U.S led NATO bombing of Libya. which left Libya to become an extremist haven, as it is now.? How's the "arming the rebels" worked out, in Syria? Another attempt at "regime change" American style, hey? Yeah, make fun of Russia. ;)
"(Russia) .. threatens to undermine Turkey’s Syria policy, which aims for the establishment of a “safe zone” along the Turkish border ..."
That would be the same safe zone through which most of the ISIS fighters travelled?
Or are we referring to the refugee camps which Erdogan opened, thus triggering the refugee crisis?
A more honest newspaper would take a much more critical look at Erdogan's contribution to escalating the Syrian war into its current state, rather than focussing exclusively on Nato's opposition to Russia, which seems to be driven by Putin's emphasis on knocking off al Qaeda and ISIS.
Whose side are we supposed to be on here?
That would be the same safe zone through which most of the ISIS fighters travelled?
Or are we referring to the refugee camps which Erdogan opened, thus triggering the refugee crisis?
A more honest newspaper would take a much more critical look at Erdogan's contribution to escalating the Syrian war into its current state, rather than focussing exclusively on Nato's opposition to Russia, which seems to be driven by Putin's emphasis on knocking off al Qaeda and ISIS.
Whose side are we supposed to be on here?
5
Turkish 'Syria policy' -- from one Khalifa Erdogan al Turkiya to another Khaifa Abubakar al Baghdadi.
Cannot understand why the Russians do not listen to the West after our wonderful achievements in Afghanistan,Iraq and Libya.
11
Lesson in Afghanistan is not enough for the Russians as the lesson in Vietnam has slipped out of our memory.
2
This is how a world war can start. We should withdraw and let Putin sink into the muck of the Middle East. None of this is worth the risk of our further involvement. Turkey, unfortunately a NATO "partner," has contributed to the unrest. It should be made clear to them that they're on their own in this situation.
3
It's interesting to read many comments where readers are willing to cede to Russia the role of a military enforcer in the world's hot spots. It's a big strategic mistake. This kind a myopic view will see Russia and China become much bigger threats to our economy and the gains made in this world over the last 50 years. It seems we have lost the perspective of just how the plight of human beings has been bettered with America in the lead. That complacency will carry some costs. (/11 was a just a canary in the coal mine if we don't wake up.
3
Good. Let the Russians take a pass at it for the next decade or so. The U.S. has shed enough blood and squandered enough trillions already fighting the Arabs' wars for them.
3
What an absolute outrage that the U.S. bombers of a hospital are going to investigate themselves. There needs to be an immediate transparent independent investigation into what seems to be a war crime. The U.S. is loosing even more credibility by the day.
3
What is your point, that the intended target was the hospital and thus a war crime? This is doubtful. However, what's beyond question is the brutal, murderous behavior the Taliban continue to exhibit:
http://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2015/09/18/major-taliban-milit...
http://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2015/09/18/major-taliban-milit...
1
NATO and the U.S. along with the EU deliberately went out of their way to antagonize and arouse the Russian Bear by overthrowing the legitimate government of Ukraine and attempting to seize Ukraine as a forward base for future operations against Holy Mother Russia. Now it is "pay back" time for Russia. By expanding the war in Syria this will increase the refugee flow into Europe. Meanwhile the Europeans sit idly by and do nothing to stop this migrant invasion. So yes people aggression and war in one place can easily lead to return aggression and war in another. Regardless of that, the U.S. needs to stay completely out of this morass. We caused this Syrian civil war by encouraging the uprising against Assad. We helped overthrow Qaddafi in Libya and invaded and occupied Iraq and Afghanistan. Now the entire region is in turmoil thanks to W. and his war hawks and Obama not having courage and decency enough to completely withdraw from the Middle East mess. We get no oil or gas from the Middle East. Europe and the Far East do. They all have large armies, navies and air forces. Any military intervention to restore order and peace and stop the illegal aliens invading Europe needs to come from Britain, France, Germany and Italy. The "Big Three" in Asia---China, India and Japan have millions of soldiers and plenty of ships and aircraft. If they need to step in to keep the oil flowing and the sea lanes open let them do so. No more American lives and money squandered in the Middle East!
7
The yellowness of the "journalism" is only matched by the hypocrisy and double-speak trotted out by the Obama administration of late. Russia entering the fight is a "dangerous escalation" but France doing the same is super-cool. Saudi Arabia and the US can blast untold civilians to death by bombing, but Russian planes over the Turkish border is reprehensible. Russian "volunteers" are snidely derided as obvious agents for the government, but American volunteers (profiled in the NYTMagazine on the 30th) are depicted as idealists.
Your revolting excuse for informing the public may as well be straight out of COINTELPRO. It is a profound disservice to journalism, respectability, and the ideals of the United States.
Your revolting excuse for informing the public may as well be straight out of COINTELPRO. It is a profound disservice to journalism, respectability, and the ideals of the United States.
5
Russian "volunteers" as we learned in Ukraine aren't "volunteers". Ask several dozen Russian families about that. Or the Russians captured by Ukraine. France, England, the US and many others are bombing ISIS. Russia? Bombing anyone who happens be close to Assad.
Do the math.
Do the math.
Is this "volunteer" Russian ground forces the very same one that is in Ukraine?
1
"And, did US get approval from UN or Syria to use their airspace?"
Well, the UN doesn't have any airspace, so that answers the first question. As for Syrian airspace, the answer is "Nope."
Russia has permission to use Syrian airspace. The US doesn't. That's an important distinction – maybe not to the US, but to everyone else.
Well, the UN doesn't have any airspace, so that answers the first question. As for Syrian airspace, the answer is "Nope."
Russia has permission to use Syrian airspace. The US doesn't. That's an important distinction – maybe not to the US, but to everyone else.
5
Volunteers is it. If there is a Russian mother who can read this - hide your children in the farm fields.
It has not gotten serious yet. Russian Generals are holding back their regulars but if there is any Russian stund enough to enter the middle eastern quagmire, Vladimer and his buddies will provide the plane ticket.
It has not gotten serious yet. Russian Generals are holding back their regulars but if there is any Russian stund enough to enter the middle eastern quagmire, Vladimer and his buddies will provide the plane ticket.
1
NATO????? Now they threaten other countries??? Hmmm.
2
Although this would be bad for most Syrians in the short term, in the long term is could be good for everyone...since this could be 1979 and Afghanistan for Russia all over again, just as Iraq and Afghanistan are 1964 and Vietnam all over again for the U.S.
2
The silver lining of the Russian intervention in Syria is that reactions to it will hasten the demise of the Assad regime in ways that were not previously anticipated. I expect that in the fullness of time it will end up being a very costly error for Russia, much like Afghanistan was, and much like Vietnam and Iraq were for the USA.
2
Volunteer in Russia = either you go to an exotic location like Syria or you go to Siberia! I think I will go to Syria , voluntarily. But if you look at history - this will be another failed military intervention.
3
What is the point of Putin's utter duplicity? The world knows he's not in Syria "to attack ISIS" but to protect Assad. The world understood there was no "referendum" in Crimea, just another Sudetenland. And the world clearly gets that Russian troops will not be "volunteers."
There aren't even 5-year-old children who will buy what Putin is trying to sell.
There aren't even 5-year-old children who will buy what Putin is trying to sell.
3
Domestic consumption.
Lessons of December 1979 to February 1989 USSR involvement in Afghanistan, leading to USSR retreat 'with their tail between there legs'' apparently ignored by Putin.
2
You've gotta have some excuse:
"Why is the Obama administration obsessed with "political transition" in Syria? If we remove Assad, who exactly is going to take over? Do the Americans think that democracy is going to magically work in Syria?"
I seriously doubt the US government has thought this through, but they need SOME excuse for meddling in other countries' affairs. Absent any excuse, after all, someone might get the wrong impression: that the US government is just meddling in other countries' affairs. If someone were to think such a thing, well – as Richard Nixon was wont to say on the Watergate tapes: "That would be wrong."
"Why is the Obama administration obsessed with "political transition" in Syria? If we remove Assad, who exactly is going to take over? Do the Americans think that democracy is going to magically work in Syria?"
I seriously doubt the US government has thought this through, but they need SOME excuse for meddling in other countries' affairs. Absent any excuse, after all, someone might get the wrong impression: that the US government is just meddling in other countries' affairs. If someone were to think such a thing, well – as Richard Nixon was wont to say on the Watergate tapes: "That would be wrong."
4
Russia is not a superpower. Please stop referring to Russia as one.
1
Russia possesses sufficient nuclear weaponry to annihilate all mankind. That is the practical definition of a superpower.
The US is not a superpower. Please stop referring to it as such.
Putin realises the impotent, incompetent Obama administration can be ignored without consequence. Putin can and will do whatever he likes in the region, without fear of consequence, and so will aim to achieve his goals before the next President takes office. With references to 'red lines' and jokes about ISIS being the JV, Obama has made the USA a laughingstock in the Middle East.
1
1, Assad is awful and so is Putin
2. Both are better than ISIS by a country mile
3. Aside form the Kurds there are no good guys in this mess
4. Russia came in to save Assad sure but in reality with Turkey making declarations on Northern Syria and talks of safe zones and no fly zones, this forced Russia to act.
5. Turkey, not Obama, blew it by attacking the Kurds for the last 6 months or so instead of storming into "friendly" northern Syria to establish its safe zone and attacking ISIS.
6. Is what it is now which is a war pitting Russia/Shite/Kurd/Christian vs. Whabbi/Turk.
7. None of our business accept to arm Kurds and Christians.
2. Both are better than ISIS by a country mile
3. Aside form the Kurds there are no good guys in this mess
4. Russia came in to save Assad sure but in reality with Turkey making declarations on Northern Syria and talks of safe zones and no fly zones, this forced Russia to act.
5. Turkey, not Obama, blew it by attacking the Kurds for the last 6 months or so instead of storming into "friendly" northern Syria to establish its safe zone and attacking ISIS.
6. Is what it is now which is a war pitting Russia/Shite/Kurd/Christian vs. Whabbi/Turk.
7. None of our business accept to arm Kurds and Christians.
1
Those who follow the US/NATO narrative on this (the one repeated by the embedded US media) are like sheep chasing after lemmings.
You will publish this, right?
You will publish this, right?
1
An understatement:
"NATO are the biggest violators of airspace and national sovereignty in the world. They should look in the mirror and see the REAL guilty party in the Syrian tragedy."
Several top US officials -- not to mention Hillary Clinton -- have insisted that the US establish a "no fly zone" over non-ISIS parts of Syria, which presumably would include the entire part of Syria controlled by the government. Presumably the US Air Force would patrol this no-fly zone, which would mean that neither Syrian nor Russian planes could fly there.
Gosh, I wonder:
1. Whether the Syrian and/or Russian Air Force would immediately cease operations in Syria out of respect for the US-established no-fly zone.
2. Whether the Syrian and/or Russian Air Force would interpret that as a US violation of Syrian air space.
3. How the US might feel if the the Syrian and/or Russian Air Force established a no-fly zone over the US.
"NATO are the biggest violators of airspace and national sovereignty in the world. They should look in the mirror and see the REAL guilty party in the Syrian tragedy."
Several top US officials -- not to mention Hillary Clinton -- have insisted that the US establish a "no fly zone" over non-ISIS parts of Syria, which presumably would include the entire part of Syria controlled by the government. Presumably the US Air Force would patrol this no-fly zone, which would mean that neither Syrian nor Russian planes could fly there.
Gosh, I wonder:
1. Whether the Syrian and/or Russian Air Force would immediately cease operations in Syria out of respect for the US-established no-fly zone.
2. Whether the Syrian and/or Russian Air Force would interpret that as a US violation of Syrian air space.
3. How the US might feel if the the Syrian and/or Russian Air Force established a no-fly zone over the US.
4
Many commenters have criticized Russia for allowing "volunteers" to enter Syria and fight on the ground. Presumably those Russian troops would be invited to do so by the Syrian government. Sounds exactly like Vietnam, only this time it's Russian troops rather than US troops. Our soldiers were "invited" to Vietnam by Vietnam's government, after all, and we can hardly argue that Vietnam's government at the time was any more legitimate than Assad's government. Nor do I remember anyone suggesting that we had to ask the Russians' permission to send our troops to Vietnam.
The Russian bravado and euphoria will last until the first video of one of the "volunteers" getting his head sliced off.
2
Won't matter much if they're effectively censored from Russian domestic media, just as Russian casualties in the Ukrainian conflict are largely taboo for public discussion.
United States hypocrisy is in its most dangerous form. The U.S. government believes that it can invade anybody at any time, and somehow it's righteous. It's not, of course. But when Russia hints at "voluntary troops," American officials start with that self-righteous pitch about all the harm it could do. On the other hand, it's O.K. for the U.S. to turn a blind eye to all the mercenaries and "volunteers" aiding and abetting the Syrian "resistance" otherwise known as terrorists and/or people who hate secularism. Regardless, the Russians are going to fix the Syrian problem, and short of declaring war, there's nothing the United States or the rest of our phony allies like Turkey can do about it. If it were up to the United States, we would use the Kurds to fight ISIS, then betray them to Turkey, where they would be no doubt annihilated. That's American foreign policy: backstab, lie and betray, just as the U.S. government did to Gaddafi and just as it did to its own citizens. If there's money to be made and power to grab, come up with some moral excuse - no matter how outrageous - churn out the propaganda, and shed that blood.
The last great president was Eisenhower. Since then, it's been a steady decline. Now all we have are egotists trying to bend the truth. Russia is at least consistent in terms of supporting allies, and Syria must be settled. At this moment in time, average citizens in Europe and the U.S. should realize that Putin is their greatest ally.
The last great president was Eisenhower. Since then, it's been a steady decline. Now all we have are egotists trying to bend the truth. Russia is at least consistent in terms of supporting allies, and Syria must be settled. At this moment in time, average citizens in Europe and the U.S. should realize that Putin is their greatest ally.
10
Solution: Give the 5 loyal US trained fighters a free ticket to Stuttgart. Set up free vodka kiosks for the arriving ground pounders. Wait six months. Russian equipment is awful, their ground forces are traditional, top down, dupyas (in Polish). Their officer corps is pathetic. Their communications protocols are infantile. Give them all the space they need in western Syria.
4
Now Russia wants to fight our terrorists. My, how the worm turns.
Well, I guess that remains to be seen, doesn't it?
"Mr. Carter ... said that the United States and its allies wanted to fight the Islamic State and to work toward a political transition in which Mr. Assad would leave office. “Russia seems to believe you can have one without the other,” Mr. Carter said. “Right now they’re way off track.”
"Mr. Carter ... said that the United States and its allies wanted to fight the Islamic State and to work toward a political transition in which Mr. Assad would leave office. “Russia seems to believe you can have one without the other,” Mr. Carter said. “Right now they’re way off track.”
1
Russia under Putin continues to dig itself into a deeper hole. There are statements today from Russian officials that "volunteer" ground troops will be deployed in Syria (Reuters). I expect there to be additional "accidental" incursions into Turkey by Russia forces in the near future.
Contrary to Kremlin doublespeak, Assad is largely responsible for this catastrophe by slaughtering peaceful moderates at the inception of this war. Putin's macho attempt to defend Assad will fail.
Putin has managed to aggravate nearly the entire world (East Ukraine, Crimea, MH17 among others) and looking at the Russian economy (negative 4% growth) it shows. In spite of it all, Putin is bent on confronting the West regardless of the consequences, even if it prolongs the Syrian war and eventually destroys the Russian economy.
Contrary to Kremlin doublespeak, Assad is largely responsible for this catastrophe by slaughtering peaceful moderates at the inception of this war. Putin's macho attempt to defend Assad will fail.
Putin has managed to aggravate nearly the entire world (East Ukraine, Crimea, MH17 among others) and looking at the Russian economy (negative 4% growth) it shows. In spite of it all, Putin is bent on confronting the West regardless of the consequences, even if it prolongs the Syrian war and eventually destroys the Russian economy.
1
Given the Obama presidency, we are the last people on Earth who should be chastising anyone. Putin is filling the hole in Syria Obama created, and take a look around here at home, our economy is nothing to gloat about.
A senior American official rejected the claim. “The pilot would have known where they were,” said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the official was not authorized to comment by name. “I’m not a fighter pilot, but there was no way this was accidental. The notion that this was accidental is far-fetched.” I wasn't a fighter pilot either... just a trained combat air controller. The fighter was operating 18 miles from the Turkish border. A jet fighter can get 18 miles off course virtually in the blink of an eye.
9
I don't understand why people believe that in order to stabilize the military situation in Syria, Russia would need to make a long term commitment to having boots on the ground. If you assume that Putin wants to rebuild the Syrian government and to eradicate jihadist elements in the country entirely, then sure, a 4-month entry/exit plan would be impossible. A longer commitment would have to be made to occupy the country, to suppress any and all resistance to the Assad regime, and to sort dissidents from within the local civilian populations into which they would undoubtedly blend to "live to fight another day."
But if the scope of Putin's goal is restricted to say, effectively eradicating the infrastructure and the organized fighting capabilities of the major dissident factions, then a short-term war could easily achieve those results.
I think people forget that part of the reason the United States became mired in Iraq and Afghanistan was that the overarching goal of the Bush administration--beyond defeating the Taliban and toppling Saddam Hussein--was to spread democracy to the middle east. Essentially the United States took upon itself the doomed projects of building governments from the ground up and, in the words of Ken Jowit, of "chang[ing] people whose loyalties are to their little kin and clan into the Massachusetts Committee of Correspondence."
The point is, Putin's goals are more restricted in scope and could be achieved with a short war.
But if the scope of Putin's goal is restricted to say, effectively eradicating the infrastructure and the organized fighting capabilities of the major dissident factions, then a short-term war could easily achieve those results.
I think people forget that part of the reason the United States became mired in Iraq and Afghanistan was that the overarching goal of the Bush administration--beyond defeating the Taliban and toppling Saddam Hussein--was to spread democracy to the middle east. Essentially the United States took upon itself the doomed projects of building governments from the ground up and, in the words of Ken Jowit, of "chang[ing] people whose loyalties are to their little kin and clan into the Massachusetts Committee of Correspondence."
The point is, Putin's goals are more restricted in scope and could be achieved with a short war.
4
If it were as easy as destroying the ISIS's command and control structures, infrastructure and so on and so forth, do you seriously think somebody would not have done so by now? We already have troops on the ground over there -- Kurds, Iraqis, Iranians, etc. -- and massive air superiority.
Really, they've tried that, It didn't work.
Really, they've tried that, It didn't work.
The Syrian Crisis reeks of Obama WH politics.
This is a golden opportunity for Obama to embrace the 2008 liberal progressive, Bush-bashing antiwar Obama--to remove all US forces from a civil war in a destabilized region that US intervention and nation building has failed.
So why is Obama trying to match Putin, bomb for bomb?
To save face. To project some imagined image that Obama has a clue, a spine or a plan. To stick it to political critics calling him weak.
Not to save Syrian lives, destroy ISIS or spread democracy.
This is a golden opportunity for Obama to embrace the 2008 liberal progressive, Bush-bashing antiwar Obama--to remove all US forces from a civil war in a destabilized region that US intervention and nation building has failed.
So why is Obama trying to match Putin, bomb for bomb?
To save face. To project some imagined image that Obama has a clue, a spine or a plan. To stick it to political critics calling him weak.
Not to save Syrian lives, destroy ISIS or spread democracy.
1
The truth is Russia is giving the US and its NATO allies a dose of their own medicine. From Iraq, Libya to Syria, the US and its allies have acted as if the world's opinion does not matter. The US and EU even got involved in Ukraine but when real actions were most needed, the US and EU were MIA. Russia is acting when the US and its EU allies are most unprepared and facing their domestic crisis: refugees in Europe and Americans tiring of long wars in Afghanistan and the ME.
6
The Times quotes an unnamed "administration official" warning Mr. Putin "not to continue to test the waters" with its Syrian intervention. This macho off the record talk is fairly aggressive for a government that drew a red line two years ago that was immediately crossed by Assad. What exactly would the Administration threaten the Russians with? A scathing Op-Ed piece by Susan Rice? Or maybe a Re-Reset Button that President Obama could press to show Putin and his FSB friends that this time, really, truly, there will be repercussions for Russian imperialism? I am sure the Kremlin is paralyzed by fear over that possibility.
3
And they probably will not be wearing a uniform either ! Barbara T , It seems that when someone is not with us is because they are against us ! It was clear as water that Putin's interest was in assisting his client's needs from day one ! is one of the ways to profit and be more capable of dealing with some of the sanctions economic effects .Bob Woods says it better !A mistake made on purpose becomes a direct treat ! Lets hope they do not make a real mistake that will open the gates of heck !
Russia is going to send ground troops to Syria?
They'll be sorry.
They'll be sorry.
6
So, the bad Russians flew a whole plane over the border into Turkey. How will we ever survive?! NATO simply cannot put up with all this flying of aircraft! (Insert hypocritical outrage here)! We should show everyone how upset we are by intentionally bombing some more hospitals!
6
It's year 10 of a 30-Year War. ISIS has to go, and there are no 'moderates', they have all left. Let Russia do the dirty work, they are good at it. They can have the blowback, too.
4
If you wish to "volunteer" to fight in Syria just join the Russian Army and they will "volunteer" you.
1
Erdogan may be in a panic that his game is up. His open support for IS, and NATO's silly reaction to an overflight stand in contrast to his repeated call for a "no-fly" zone over Syria, which is not only a violation of sovereignty but an act of war. Compare Russia's admission of an error, in which no one was injured, to President Obama attempt to deny that the US bombed a Doctors Without Borders hospital in northern Afghanistan, killing a dozen medical personnel and at least three children. The bombing continued for half an hour after frantic calls to US and NATO commanders to stop. The hospital was turned into a rubble pile, and Obama just dodged responsibility “until the investigation into the incident is completed.”
4
Totally non-partisan thinking here, but let's see how President Obama reacts to President Putin's moves in Syria. This is what I am waiting for.
Re. the Russian incursion into Turkish airspace: "a senior U.S. official said the Obama administration does not believe the incursion was an accident", unlike the US airstrike against a large Afghan hospital marked on every map. No siree.
4
Nowhere in this or related articles do I see any statement by the administration about what, if anything, this country intends to do about what may become a Russian invasion into Syria. While Russia, escalates its military incursion into Syria we do the opposite of the political advice from Teddy Roosevelt. We "speak loudly but carry a twig". I guess that's smarter than making threats which will never be carried out, as we have done before with Syria.
Putin is playing us like a violin. He is intent on becoming the dominant power in the Middle East, displacing the US in all the region, except, perhaps, for Israel. If that is the eventuality, why not leave the region completely, and stop wasting assets and risking American lives.
Putin is playing us like a violin. He is intent on becoming the dominant power in the Middle East, displacing the US in all the region, except, perhaps, for Israel. If that is the eventuality, why not leave the region completely, and stop wasting assets and risking American lives.
Dominant power in the middle east?
Dominant power in a stirred up ants nest, more likely. He can have it. It will destroy him like it has destroyed everyone else.
Dominant power in a stirred up ants nest, more likely. He can have it. It will destroy him like it has destroyed everyone else.
While only a fringe movement in the Syrian conflict we have been involved from the beginning when it was only Syrians. Now it is like 1920 when the French came and destroyed the last edition of the Kingdom of Greater Syria because they were angry at the British. Arabs were being killed then over foreigners battling for influence or domination in the region and now it is U.S., Russia, Saudis & Iranians trying to influence the outcome in Syria.
1
The US can bully fly pecks like Israel but can not stand up to the likes of Iran:so, the US will say little serious to Russia, which is Iran times one thousand. We gave the Russians the opportunity since we have done almost nothing in Syria. Remember that line in the sand? Assad crossed it and the US cowered. Putin is looking out for the Rodina. Russian will hold on to its warm water port in the Med and do not look for those Russian volunteer troops to be leaving Syria anytime soon. If our sec of state had been going to class instead of getting worse grades than W maybe he would have learned a few things about Russia's aims for the last 300 years, and they have not changed. And, the current US admin has been cutting our Navy and will be going our Army. Does not look good for US interests. Will it be even worse when Hillary Clinton takes over?
Isn't this what USA not being the worlds policeman looks like?
1
One message from all of this is that if you're an ally of Russia and the "going gets tough," then you get warplanes and unfaltering support, whereas if you're an ally of the United States, then you're lucky if the White House even answers the phone.
It's time for the Obama administration to wake up, there is no (organized) faction in Syria for which one would not have moral qualms of supporting and this is where pragmatism should take over. In short, it's time to talk to Assad and use his hold on power to destroy ISIL and when ISIL is completely decimated, then we should turn our guns and quietly put a bullet in the back of Assad's head. We then make extra sure to leave the Assad regime's infrastructure in place and put one of his generals temporarily in charge of Syria, someone without illusions for what the real score is. What we don't do is pick some buffoonish expatriate whom supposedly "represents" the "opposition," and then create another Iraq. The best part is that we do all of this with the help of Russia whom will defray a significant portion of the cost, but in the end gets nothing.
It's time for the Obama administration to wake up, there is no (organized) faction in Syria for which one would not have moral qualms of supporting and this is where pragmatism should take over. In short, it's time to talk to Assad and use his hold on power to destroy ISIL and when ISIL is completely decimated, then we should turn our guns and quietly put a bullet in the back of Assad's head. We then make extra sure to leave the Assad regime's infrastructure in place and put one of his generals temporarily in charge of Syria, someone without illusions for what the real score is. What we don't do is pick some buffoonish expatriate whom supposedly "represents" the "opposition," and then create another Iraq. The best part is that we do all of this with the help of Russia whom will defray a significant portion of the cost, but in the end gets nothing.
4
Let's see. The Russians are allied with a minority Shia (alewife) government, that puts them in bed with iran, iraq and Hezbollah, all of whom want to save Assad. We are hooked up with the Sunni gulf states, Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and the Turks, all of whom want Assad to go. We also are supporting the Kurds, whom the Turks are fighting. Everyone hates Israel. Goodness knows about Libya, Yemen, etc. Really people, do we care if Russia devotes itself to one particular insane group vs. another? I believe history will consider Obama's pivot to the pacific rim (new trade agreement), and Latin America (Cuba re-engagement) in lieu of this part of the world will be considered his smartest move. Avoid this crazy quagmire at all costs. I actually feel sorry for the Russians.
quagmire at all costs.
quagmire at all costs.
4
SO let's just stay out of it. Really, do we have ANY national interest in this?
3
Not really. I suspect we did when oil mattered, but now I see little shared values or interests, other than to minimize disruption to bordering nations. A thoughtful plan to limit said disruption is about as far as I'd go.
Why doesn't Russia bomb hospitals like we do?
10
Russia under Putin killed 10's of thousands of Chechen's. You may have heard about this. Your statement is baseless. Russia is also responsible for the deaths of thousands in East Ukraine, not to mention downing MH17.
1
America has morally bankrupted itself. It is time that the US retreat from the World Stage and assess itself before doing any more damage to itself. NATO is nonsense at this point and needs to dissolve itself.
11
A vacuum get's filled. I guess this "red line" has been crossed?
Why is the Obama administration obsessed with "political transition" in Syria? If we remove Assad, who exactly is going to take over? Do the Americans think that democracy is going to magically work in Syria? How did it work out in Iraq? In Libya? In Egypt? I sometime wonder whether Americans are naive or stupid to think that democracy works everywhere and not learn from their mistakes.
Putin has recognized that if Assad were to fall, there would be chaos in the region and could easily spread to former USSR countries south of Russia. Putin has a clearly stated objective and is willing to commit resources to achieve that objective, as opposed to the U.S. where we are talking half-hearted measures. In this matter, I fully support Russia and hope they succeed.
Putin has recognized that if Assad were to fall, there would be chaos in the region and could easily spread to former USSR countries south of Russia. Putin has a clearly stated objective and is willing to commit resources to achieve that objective, as opposed to the U.S. where we are talking half-hearted measures. In this matter, I fully support Russia and hope they succeed.
59
Yikes. Crazy to think that this is where we are in 2015. Obama was completely blindsided by Russia on the international stage the past 3 years.
I agree ,100%. Well said.
While the though of Russian special forces (excuse me, "volunteers") in a long war with Al Qaeda might seem acceptable, Syria won't actually get fixed until Assad is gone, or until Assad rules an Alawite-only successor state. Russia keeping Assad in office claiming all of Syria will block any actual settlement of the war.
"And so, administration officials who have spoken publicly about Russia’s actions in Syria have limited themselves to warning the Russians that they are headed into dangerous territory, without making overt threats."
the war is unwinnable for any side, with its toxic mix of ethnic, tribal and religious hatreds and fears. more importantly, there are no "good guys" without blood on their hands for international powers to support. the sooner that russia, mr. assad, the sundry groups of rebels, turkey and iran realize this, the sooner that they can begin to think about alternatives--like negotiations on how to divide former syria into a confederation or separate independent states.
see libya, where a de facto sharing of power now exists, and while the country remains violent and full of tribal hatreds, it has not exploded into a full scale civil war and a refugee disaster.
the war is unwinnable for any side, with its toxic mix of ethnic, tribal and religious hatreds and fears. more importantly, there are no "good guys" without blood on their hands for international powers to support. the sooner that russia, mr. assad, the sundry groups of rebels, turkey and iran realize this, the sooner that they can begin to think about alternatives--like negotiations on how to divide former syria into a confederation or separate independent states.
see libya, where a de facto sharing of power now exists, and while the country remains violent and full of tribal hatreds, it has not exploded into a full scale civil war and a refugee disaster.
1
Let em! Let the UN and NATO deal with the Russians. If I was kind of the forest I'd say, "Thanks, Vlad, go get em. Let me know if there's something I might be able to give you a hand with" and make like a tree and leave. The Russians knocked them selves back 30 years in Afghanistan. They are lousy militarily. Just gangsters. Let the rest of the world knock each other out and get out of the way.
4
Who would you want fighting for you - a gangster army or a diversity experiment army?
1
Not a good sign. Russian troops on the ground. Russian planes flying sorties into Turkish airspace. It appears as though we are inching ever closer to proxy war in Syria with this recent Russian escalation. At this point, the U.S. just might want to ask itself if a Syria with Assad is as frightening as one without. Undoubtedly, Mr. Putin has very definite goals in mind, but he's playing with fire if he wants to assert his will over Mr. Edogan, who has an equally strong will as well.
Turkey’s Syria policy, which aims for the establishment of a “safe zone” along the Turkish border where some Syrian refugees could return in the future.
Great news! Another "Israel". Just what the region needs.
It seems that every time world leaders try and act like god by deciding for people how and where they should live, the world only turns against itself even more.
Russia is not the problem, rather those without a clue who like to pretend that somehow they did and have the military and dollar force behind them to shove their delusions of grandeur down other peoples' throats.
Great news! Another "Israel". Just what the region needs.
It seems that every time world leaders try and act like god by deciding for people how and where they should live, the world only turns against itself even more.
Russia is not the problem, rather those without a clue who like to pretend that somehow they did and have the military and dollar force behind them to shove their delusions of grandeur down other peoples' throats.
1
Sometimes when your enemy commits a series of self-destructive actions, it is best to stand back and them hurt themselves deeply. What is the Russian endgame? To return Syria to what it was once? That will never happen. To break Syria into smaller nations? OK, what's in that for Russia? Syria has absolutely nothing the West needs. The only realistic, meaningful goal is to destroy ISIS. BVeyond that, all is worthless. So, have at it Russia. Spend your billions, kill your young people for nothing.
Who would have thought Vladimir Putin is as stupid as Cheney, Bush and Rumsfeld?
Who would have thought Vladimir Putin is as stupid as Cheney, Bush and Rumsfeld?
3
Preservation of the military facility at Tartus, which is the sole remaining Russian military facility outside the former domain of the USSR.
There's also prestige at stake, with Putin more than happy to show the world that Russia's government has more resolve than that of the United States.
There's also prestige at stake, with Putin more than happy to show the world that Russia's government has more resolve than that of the United States.
1
Taking an arm chair approach:
Russia sends a dangerous message with its airstrikes in Syria.
The opening moves take place.
Russia bombs the Syrian rebels and not ISIS and Al Qaeda’s Syrian force. (We are not happy with these unforeseen events.)
Assad breathes a sigh of relief and Putin's game shifts from chess to checkers.
Our strategic moves now may well be:
Encourage Syrian rebels to stand down and take refuge in safe zones in Turkey, Jordan, and Lebanon.
This is known as a strategic retreat or live to fight another day.
Many Syrian refugees may choose to leave the EU and move to welcome and join the rebels in the camps.
We send all aids to the camps.
We and other interested parties retire to a negotiating table, deliberate, and send a "here we are" note to Putin/Assad.
Then we wait.
ISIS/Al Qaeda turn their attention on Assad and his forces and have at it.
Putin must now engage these hostile forces aligned against Assad and decide how to defeat them - all on his own.
He is forced to encourage and/or put boots on the ground to assist Assad.
Home front Russia, with their past Afghanistan disaster and other current national problems, now says - Maybe we should talk this over, Comrade Putin.
We signal Putin from the negotiating table and send positive, helpful, and welcoming remarks.
The good news:
Obama is President, not some hot-headed Republican war monger.
Hope the Congress keeps a cool head.
Above scenario may lack vital detail. Do add to it.
Russia sends a dangerous message with its airstrikes in Syria.
The opening moves take place.
Russia bombs the Syrian rebels and not ISIS and Al Qaeda’s Syrian force. (We are not happy with these unforeseen events.)
Assad breathes a sigh of relief and Putin's game shifts from chess to checkers.
Our strategic moves now may well be:
Encourage Syrian rebels to stand down and take refuge in safe zones in Turkey, Jordan, and Lebanon.
This is known as a strategic retreat or live to fight another day.
Many Syrian refugees may choose to leave the EU and move to welcome and join the rebels in the camps.
We send all aids to the camps.
We and other interested parties retire to a negotiating table, deliberate, and send a "here we are" note to Putin/Assad.
Then we wait.
ISIS/Al Qaeda turn their attention on Assad and his forces and have at it.
Putin must now engage these hostile forces aligned against Assad and decide how to defeat them - all on his own.
He is forced to encourage and/or put boots on the ground to assist Assad.
Home front Russia, with their past Afghanistan disaster and other current national problems, now says - Maybe we should talk this over, Comrade Putin.
We signal Putin from the negotiating table and send positive, helpful, and welcoming remarks.
The good news:
Obama is President, not some hot-headed Republican war monger.
Hope the Congress keeps a cool head.
Above scenario may lack vital detail. Do add to it.
Putin is just using this arena to try and get his public manhood back. Seems of late "little" men have used the lives of others to make a big statement only to prove the malignancy within themselves. The American pipsqueaks being the prior administration whose game of toy soldiers started this dire mess in the first place.
1
A country, who has failed numerous times when attempting to replace despots in the middle east, shouldn't give others "how to" advice to other nations.
9
Russia has a simple, but achievable policy goal in Syria--create a safe Alawite region with Bashar al-Assad in charge, while the U.S. and its allies have none. If we really want to eliminate ISIS, we need a political vision that forgets about yet another "regime change" that replaces the hated dictator we know with something worse like ISIS. It's time for an international peace conference to end the Syrian civil war that would consider reconstituting it as a federated state that would include our allies, the Kurds, who are already in the process of creating their own enclave. Unless the U.S starts a diplomatic initiative immediately, it is guaranteeing that an accident involving either a Russian or American plane being shot down and the neocons here screaming for more Middle East blood with a retaliatory escalation. Once again, Mr. Putin is setting the agenda with military facts on the ground and the U.S. must stop dithering or fall further into the quagmire it unleashed with the toppling of Saddam Hussein.
4
Time for Obama to draw another red line in Syria. Where is Hillary's reset button?
3
The Cold War was Soviet-American cooperation to end what Dean Acheson called the civil war in Europe. American troops kept West Europe under control and Soviet did the same in East Europe. This was exactly what Churchill called for in March 1946 when he popularized the phrase "Iron Curtain" in calling for a strict division of spheres of influence.
Fortunately, we seem to be re-establishing that good "Cold War" in the middle East. The Russians establish control of Assad in all parts of Syria, something clearly in our interest. Iran creates an Iron Curtain between the Shiites and Sunnis in the South, including in Baghdad. Turkey re-establishes it centrures old-hegemony over northern Iraq and gets Kurds forces out of it, including Kirkuk. Russia protects Syria from Turkey.
Of course, as in the old Cold War, the alliance needs to be hidden with false confrontation. The Saudis need to be told if they interfere again, our policy will be regime change, and Israeli should be told to become a neutral economic wonder like Switzerland.
Peace, as durable as in Europe 60 years ago, will be established.
Fortunately, we seem to be re-establishing that good "Cold War" in the middle East. The Russians establish control of Assad in all parts of Syria, something clearly in our interest. Iran creates an Iron Curtain between the Shiites and Sunnis in the South, including in Baghdad. Turkey re-establishes it centrures old-hegemony over northern Iraq and gets Kurds forces out of it, including Kirkuk. Russia protects Syria from Turkey.
Of course, as in the old Cold War, the alliance needs to be hidden with false confrontation. The Saudis need to be told if they interfere again, our policy will be regime change, and Israeli should be told to become a neutral economic wonder like Switzerland.
Peace, as durable as in Europe 60 years ago, will be established.
4
Something good comes out of Russia's military intervention in Syria : It has been quiet in the conflict-ridden Donbas region of eastern Ukraine for the first time in weeks. The "Normandy Quartet" - Vladimir Putin, Angela Merkel, François Hollande and Petro Poroshenko - met in Paris last week and reached an agreement on the withdrawal of tanks and small-caliber weapons from the front line. The cease-fire raises hopes that the truce negotiated in February may finally bring peace between Kiev and the pro-Russian separatists, because the "volunteers" now flock to Syria. Winter soon sets in, so it will be more pleasant to fight there.
4
Step aside, Mr. Obama. You have been replaced on the world stage. Time to start designing that presidential library.
1
It would be nice if NYTimes could include a little more analyses instead of simply reporting what some American official said. I can understand the Russian position, their precise objectives, without reading Pravda (does that still exist?). But I am totally at a a loss to understand the American position.
Russians want to support and maintain the Assad regime. They are willing to commit both air and ground troops to meet this objective. They are willing to fight all comers opposed to Assad.
So, what is the American position? Vacuous words from American officials such as "Russia's actions are not contributing to the security and stability of the region," mean nothing. Was there security and stability before the Russians came in or even any indication it was trending that way? Really, the US and the Western Powers are going to bring to the table forty-one rebel factions to negotiate a settlement with Assad and the Russians have upset the apple cart?
All the conflicts in the Middle East (except those having to do with Israel) have only two root reasons: the schism between Sunni and Shia, and the conflict between those wanting to live in the 7th century vs. those wanting to live in the 21st century.
Let us not get involved in Sunni-Shia conflicts of which Syria is one. Pay no attention who is supporting whom in such conflicts.
Let us support those who are fighting to live in the 21st century as much as the treasury would allow.
Russians want to support and maintain the Assad regime. They are willing to commit both air and ground troops to meet this objective. They are willing to fight all comers opposed to Assad.
So, what is the American position? Vacuous words from American officials such as "Russia's actions are not contributing to the security and stability of the region," mean nothing. Was there security and stability before the Russians came in or even any indication it was trending that way? Really, the US and the Western Powers are going to bring to the table forty-one rebel factions to negotiate a settlement with Assad and the Russians have upset the apple cart?
All the conflicts in the Middle East (except those having to do with Israel) have only two root reasons: the schism between Sunni and Shia, and the conflict between those wanting to live in the 7th century vs. those wanting to live in the 21st century.
Let us not get involved in Sunni-Shia conflicts of which Syria is one. Pay no attention who is supporting whom in such conflicts.
Let us support those who are fighting to live in the 21st century as much as the treasury would allow.
13
Go Russia! Atleast they are actively solving a problem.
We are currently bombing are own hospitals! And worse yet those hospitals probably treat the very terrorists we are trying to destroy!
So right now I am a big fan of the Russian / Iranian moves.
My country dropping billions in bombs on dirt houses...not so much.
We are currently bombing are own hospitals! And worse yet those hospitals probably treat the very terrorists we are trying to destroy!
So right now I am a big fan of the Russian / Iranian moves.
My country dropping billions in bombs on dirt houses...not so much.
6
I am surprised by how many people seem to be missing the meaning of the story. Russia has basically just admitted to this lie of green men in Crimea and rebels in Ukraine. At the same time, they have the skill and technology to ensure they do not cross international airspace borders, so in doing just that they have signaled again their subversiveness. They operate in bad faith seemingly gaining strength from the spread of lies and disinformation. Peace is not high on their agenda because they thrive in the shadows of discontent and adversarial relationships. Chaos and disorder is their playground. This is what makes them dangerous even today, decades after being regarded as a world superpower. They are the world's superterrorist.
1
Syria is a country recognized by the U.N. as is the government of Bashar Assad. The stated goal of the United States to remove the Assad government constitutes aggression under international law. All military activity that takes place within or above the internationally recognized borders of Syria must be done by permission of the recognized government of Syria, the Assad government. Any person within the territory of Syria who carries arms against the Assad government is a terrorist. Any country who supports any these people, such as the United States, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Turkey and Israel, are state sponsors of terrorism. The U.S. does not have a leg to stand on from the standpoint of international law and the whole world knows it.
15
Russia will defeat the anti-Assad,non-ISIS rebels; the US will see to the crushing of ISIS. In the end, Assad will still be in power, after the countless deaths and dislocations that have rocked the region and disrupted Europe. So much mayhem for nothing...
We are the only stakeholder that does not have a presence in Syria. We should at least have our special forces in there.
This is an abdication of leadership, which is exactly why al-Qaeda, once 99% defeated in Iraq, has been able to re-emerge as ISIS to take over 1/3 of Iraq under Obama's tenure.
This is an abdication of leadership, which is exactly why al-Qaeda, once 99% defeated in Iraq, has been able to re-emerge as ISIS to take over 1/3 of Iraq under Obama's tenure.
1
With Putin, the problem is always "what's next"? He took over Crimea, then invaded other parts of Ukraine, has threatened the Baltic states, threatened Sweden, now has troops and equipment in Syria, what is next? That said, I think he is getting into a big quagmire in Syria. Russia is turning into an Iranian proxy and not the other way around.
The U.S. insistence on Syria without Assad sounds good until you ask -- who or what will replace Assad? It's a very fractured place, just like Iraq. Does anybody really think parliamentary elections are going to work there any better than they worked in Iraq.
7
With Iran ground forces going to Syria to join the Russian forces this all looks like the Ezekiel 38-39 war is on the horizon.
4
Russia's actions in Syria can be seen as a marketing campaign by its arms makers, more so than a military campaign. After years of decay and shrinkage, with few new advanced weapons developed and demonstrated, the Russian arms industry risks becoming irrelevant to the international market. They lost successive campaigns in India, Brazil,and maybe a few other places as well. Even their best customer, China, is seeking to replace them with domestic makers and eventually compete with them for international sales. So even though it's a very asymmetric campaign, the Russians are demonstrating that once again they can deliver ready to deploy practical systems to their allies and other customers. Without exports to defray development costs, the Russian arms industry risks falling farther behind the rest of the world at a time that their economy is struggling and they continue to lose technical competitiveness through emmigration and demographic shifts.
1
Great news, Putin is letting his machismo get his nation into further quicksand; he is doing what Bush II did by invading Iraq. Russia's already dealing with Sunni insurgency within its borders and now Putin is inviting trouble with the majority Arab sect, outside of Russia.
Here is the rub, Iran will spend more cash flow, after removal of sanctions, fighting these Islamists' along with Russia then was intended between them in trade.
So now barbaric ISIS has a face other than USA to direct its fanaticism.
Here is the rub, Iran will spend more cash flow, after removal of sanctions, fighting these Islamists' along with Russia then was intended between them in trade.
So now barbaric ISIS has a face other than USA to direct its fanaticism.
1
Seems almost like Putin wants a Russian plane to be shot down by a NATO member, thereby justifying an attack on Estonia/Latvia/Lithuania. I haven't read that sort of analysis anywhere, but Russians don't play chess in a single corner of the board the way the West does.
Putin simultaneously worsens the refugee crisis that is paralyzing Europe, creates a negotiating position to relieve the pressure in exchange for Europe's capitulation on sanctions, and creates a justification for a war that he may be seeking in the Baltics. In exchange, he makes himself the enemy of Sunnis around the world and, hopefully, replaces the West as the primary target of terrorists. It's still hard to tell whether he's very smart or very stupid.
Putin simultaneously worsens the refugee crisis that is paralyzing Europe, creates a negotiating position to relieve the pressure in exchange for Europe's capitulation on sanctions, and creates a justification for a war that he may be seeking in the Baltics. In exchange, he makes himself the enemy of Sunnis around the world and, hopefully, replaces the West as the primary target of terrorists. It's still hard to tell whether he's very smart or very stupid.
I guess Putin needs a diversion, but I don't see what Russia has to gain here. It's going to be a trap for them, the same way Iraq was for George W. Bush.
Nothing will unite the fractured Syrian anti-regime factions more than Russian boots on the ground. Unfortunately, no one seems to care about saving the civilian populations from a murderous dictator and extremist religious groups.
1
Ironically the US did nothing when the Turk MIT were smuggling weapons to ISIS, nothing about the Turks on record recruiting terrorists to false flag themselves by blowing up their own historical landmarks, nothing about the Turks being the middleman with all the oil ISIS suddenly got under control, all the fighters funneling through the country...should I keep going? Need more clues what's happening?
3
Hey, Putin, remember Viet Nam?
if only romney, mccain or palin were in office. they would know what to do (i.e., openly and militarily confront the coward putin who would back down in a second), unlike the coward Obama.
Why do liberals not understand? Why are they so dispossed towards appeasement?
Why do liberals not understand? Why are they so dispossed towards appeasement?
3
And if he doesn't.......puff goes the world. Syria is not worth one drop of American blood.
2
This is simple.
Let Russia do the job.
If we walk away, if we stop giving guns and money to our alQueda affiliated rebels, if we let Russia fly their planes towards ISIS, there will be no confrontation between NATO and Russia. No one needs that.
How easy would it be to just walk. Russia is already in theater, playing Terminator on our called enemies. So walk. They win, we got rid of alQueda, Nusra and ISIS, and the civil war ends. They lose, well, we come in and play hero to the world, attacking a weakened enemy.
Sometimes in a fight, the best solution is to walk away. This is one of those times.
Let Russia do the job.
If we walk away, if we stop giving guns and money to our alQueda affiliated rebels, if we let Russia fly their planes towards ISIS, there will be no confrontation between NATO and Russia. No one needs that.
How easy would it be to just walk. Russia is already in theater, playing Terminator on our called enemies. So walk. They win, we got rid of alQueda, Nusra and ISIS, and the civil war ends. They lose, well, we come in and play hero to the world, attacking a weakened enemy.
Sometimes in a fight, the best solution is to walk away. This is one of those times.
8
Well played, Putin! Just a few hundred thousand more Russian ground troops and there will be peace in the Middle East!
There are 41 rebel factions? And presumably more, because some would not have signed and some would have not been found.
Maybe "rebel factions" really means "gangs"?
Maybe "rebel factions" really means "gangs"?
6
President Obama and Secretary Kerry should declare Syria a "Gun Free Zone." That will solve the problem of Syria/Russia just as declaring a "Nuke Free Zone" has solved the problem of Iran.
5
That is a ridiculous statement like the USA is a gun free country. Who do you think would listen to us?
Russia will find itself in another AFGHANISTAN SITUATION, I say , let them bleed for a while. They can hardly make more of a mess in Syria than it already is.But what they will do is earn the eternal wrath of more Muslims who already populate the southern portion of their country.For all of the CIAs concern on Russian involvement in Africa during the Brezhnev period, it came to nothing!Every kopek spent was lost, all regimes fell. Similarly I doubt any Assad offspring shall be taking the reins. Let Putin dip his foot into the cesspool that ids the middle east today.Thank yo Bush for the wo ar of flowers and songs that has destabilized the region. Notice our 'ALLY' who helped us so much with THEIR Neocons are moving into the Golan Heights and declaring it Israel proper, just like Jerusalem. They never let a good crisis go to waste.
1
The reason Arab dictators eventually fail is that they represent a small minority group trying to control a larger majority.
3
After 7 years of Obama the rest of the world has learned that while it may be bad to be an enemy of the USA, it is absolutely fatal to be a friend.
8
Why do all the Sunni Muslim countries, the U.S. and Israel want Assad overthrown? And a few of these Sunni Muslim countries, led by Saudi Arabia are now bombing rebels in Yemen. Please dig down a little deeper, NYT, and provide the answers instead of continually attempting to psychoanalyze Russia's president, Putin.
27
Thank you for providing a grain of sanity in a sea of foolishness!
2
Assad is a dictator but he is a secular dictator, like Saddam was. I'd argue that we (the common people, not the oil and defense lobbies) are better off with secular dictators in the middle east and not Islamic radicals controlled by the oppressive and backwards Saudis. It's amazing how eager the supposedly liberal-leaning upper middle class is to leap to the defense of the Islamic State and Saudi Arabia, one of the worst countries in the world. Face it: Russia has interests that our different than our own. They will pursue those interests, just like we pursue ours. Have you all forgotten about our two invasions of Iraq? The USA is not the good guys.
22
The US and NATO are playing pinprick games hitting a Humvee here and there which the Iraq Army gave to ISIS. Russia is using airpower like it is designed - to support ground troops which force the enemy to gather in mass so they can be destroyed. Dangerous move, but bold and brilliant. Russia could emerge as the hero of the Arab World for whipping Al Queda and ISIS and ending the war. The other outcomes include starting a much larger military conflict with our allies like Turkey fighting Russian troops. What will happen? Anyone have a Crystal Ball?
7
Muhammad, like Charlie before him, will not come out in the open to commit suicide.
Putin, bold and brilliant as you describe him. Time will tell.
The Russian could not fight their way out of a paper bag. They have old planes and technology and are as likely to blow up a cow or a school or a deli as hit a real target(look at our latest afghan bombing). Mass troops in open ground?You are stuck in WW1, time to update your battle plans. Russia will not be a hero anywhere EVER in the Muslim world, Remember Chechnya, they do.
It should have been obvious, looking back even 5 or 10 years, that Russia would be willing to fight over both the Crimea and Syria. Both Russia and Putin, personally, have strong incentives to see an implied imperative requiring not just a response, but particular types of sequences in response to various categories of the situation(s) they perceive.
Nothing has changed, except that when such scenarios are no longer hypothetical, bluster and loose talk can lead to tragedy. The Middle East, Europe and the world do not need additional tragedy. Everyone's care is required.
If the language and psychology of the situation is more one of management than control, felt imperatives will lose their ability to drive radical action. But it would be a mistake to misunderstand why Russia and Putin feel so vulnerable. That will not change.
Nothing has changed, except that when such scenarios are no longer hypothetical, bluster and loose talk can lead to tragedy. The Middle East, Europe and the world do not need additional tragedy. Everyone's care is required.
If the language and psychology of the situation is more one of management than control, felt imperatives will lose their ability to drive radical action. But it would be a mistake to misunderstand why Russia and Putin feel so vulnerable. That will not change.
14
In the 2012 Foreign Policy Debate, Romney said that Russia was looking to expand its geo-political control. Obama mocked him and said "this isn't the Cold War." Romney turned out to be right...
Not to say I disagree with what Obama has done, or more accurately, hasn't done in Syria. I don't mind the hands off approach. It just concerns me that Obama doesn't know what is going on.
Not to say I disagree with what Obama has done, or more accurately, hasn't done in Syria. I don't mind the hands off approach. It just concerns me that Obama doesn't know what is going on.
2
Nato seems to be the aggressor..
Why dont' you read the new American Century ... then speak up
Why dont' you read the new American Century ... then speak up
I am not concerned about Russian troops in Syria. Let them have it and all the trouble that goes with it. The new reality is that Russia is throwing all in with Assad and that means Assad will stay in power of what is left of Syria. Fine with me. Yes he is a murderer sanctioned by the State, but isn't that true of virtually all the Heads of State in the world? Russia can have Syria and all the headaches that go with it, and it makes no difference to me.
9
The violations of Syrian airspace by US and Turkish warplanes are definitely not accidental. They are just as liable to being shot down under international law as Russian warplanes in NATO airspace.
13
There is a new type of Russian soldier operating near the NATO borders: the all-purpose "volunteer" commandos and mercenary veterans clearly under Moscow orders, using Moscow weapons and materiel. They materialize from the ether on the battlefield whether Putin wants there there or not.
How long can they keep up this farce? Not long at all: they'll need bigger numbers in there soon enough to cover the ranks of a decimated Syrian army.
How long can they keep up this farce? Not long at all: they'll need bigger numbers in there soon enough to cover the ranks of a decimated Syrian army.
3
Why do you assume that there are no volunteers who agree with Russian foreign policy? I mean, I see the reasons for what they've done in Ukraine. They can't tolerate certain things on their border any more than we could tolerate bombs being tossed over from Canada. Presumably given Putin's 85 percent approval ratings, some Russians also agree.
4
A look at the air bombardment map makes clear the essential difference between the US and Russian interventions - morally speaking, both to be opposed - in the Levant. The US is scatter-shot and unfocused; the Russian is operationally concentrated to support eventual follow-up ground operations. One implication is that the US has never been serious about "going after ISIS", treating it as a lesser evil to Assad; the Russians are quite serious about the destruction of the anti-Assad forces right in front of them.
All the outsiders: Russia, Saudi Arabia/GCC, Israel, Iran, Turkey/NATO, the US, Hezbollah (anybody left out here?), need to get the heck out of Syria, and leave it to the people of Syria to determine their own future. Syria's catastrophe are the product of 1) Assad, and 2) the foreign hijacking of much of the anti-Assad resistance.
All the outsiders: Russia, Saudi Arabia/GCC, Israel, Iran, Turkey/NATO, the US, Hezbollah (anybody left out here?), need to get the heck out of Syria, and leave it to the people of Syria to determine their own future. Syria's catastrophe are the product of 1) Assad, and 2) the foreign hijacking of much of the anti-Assad resistance.
The problem with the airstrike map is that it is sourced entirely to US central command and to the UK-based Syrian Opposition Observatory. Neither has what I would call a good record for truthfulness.
I am sorry but I am tired of the tired old spin whereby Israel and the Saudis are glorified and the Allouite-based regime in Syria is constantly denigrated. And yes, it is pure propaganda to focus on Assad when the journalists and the political elites in America really want to end the entire secular government in Syria!
I realize Putin is simply defending his own interests, and I do not like Hezbollah (at all!), but if I were a Syrian, I would not only support the Syrian government and its Hezbollah allies, I would be GRATEFUL to them. I can only congratulate the Russians for sending volunteers to fight against Islamic extremists, and not just ISIS. I mean, my god, the groups our government supports work closely with the al-Nosra Front (al-qaeda !!!), and then we are going to complain when the Russians bomb them.
If I had military experience and were much younger, I would join them!!
I realize Putin is simply defending his own interests, and I do not like Hezbollah (at all!), but if I were a Syrian, I would not only support the Syrian government and its Hezbollah allies, I would be GRATEFUL to them. I can only congratulate the Russians for sending volunteers to fight against Islamic extremists, and not just ISIS. I mean, my god, the groups our government supports work closely with the al-Nosra Front (al-qaeda !!!), and then we are going to complain when the Russians bomb them.
If I had military experience and were much younger, I would join them!!
15
Where is Angela Merkel? She was the one pushing everyone to let Russia in on the quagmire saying, "There could not be peace without Russia being involved". It's a no wonder why she was being spied on. This woman scares me and should be watched at all times. She is too close to Putin and they are both Communists.
3
yes, Merkel is communist.
It's pretty obvious from recent reports on the stunning failure of US efforts to train and equip Syrian 'moderates' that there's little to be gained and much to be risked opposing Assad, and ISIL. With Russia openly escalating in Syria, the risks multiply exponentially.
After 15 instructive (but unavailing) years in Afghanistan, and Iraq US should stand down, and allow Vlad Putin to sink Russia's militaristic ambitions in the sucking sands of the Middle East. Better there than in Ukraine and the Baltic states.
After 15 instructive (but unavailing) years in Afghanistan, and Iraq US should stand down, and allow Vlad Putin to sink Russia's militaristic ambitions in the sucking sands of the Middle East. Better there than in Ukraine and the Baltic states.
7
Can't the NYT keep up? Other sources are reporting the ground troops are already there and ISIS is on the run. This will be a very short operation. All it took was the will to do it, something apparently lacking in DC.
You must be referring to Russian state news sources. Are no links available?
3
I posted it earlier on another thread, here it is again.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/609680/Islamic-State-ISIS-Russian-bo...
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/609680/Islamic-State-ISIS-Russian-bo...
Even Russians cant stop the Syrian spring.
Just delay it.
Neither America or Russia can stop the Islamic state.
Just delay it.
Just delay it.
Neither America or Russia can stop the Islamic state.
Just delay it.
1
Putin is about to show the world that he is on the same intellectual level as Bush and Cheney. He thinks he can go into Syria, quickly force a military outcome, and leave as a hero of Russia. In reality, if NATO leaves Putin to dig his own grave in Syria, Putin will learn the same lesson that everyone who has invaded the middle east (or any other country for that matter) that it is easy to prevail in the short term but a whole other matter to keep the peace.
ISIS and "the rebels" aren't going to simply stop fighting when Russian "volunteers" show up. Putin will be in Syria until he gives up on Syria but he will never win in Syria.
ISIS and "the rebels" aren't going to simply stop fighting when Russian "volunteers" show up. Putin will be in Syria until he gives up on Syria but he will never win in Syria.
1
Putin can most certainly win in Syria. All he has to do is kill most, if not all, of the radical muslims opposing the Assad regime.
3
"Putin can most certainly win in Syria. All he has to do is kill most, if not all, of the radical muslims opposing the Assad regime."
I'm OK with that. Stabilize the country, shore up the borders, get things moving on rebuilding, the US will be there in no time lest the Germans get all the contracts. Seems to me Putin is the new sheriff in town, and that's a good thing.
I'm OK with that. Stabilize the country, shore up the borders, get things moving on rebuilding, the US will be there in no time lest the Germans get all the contracts. Seems to me Putin is the new sheriff in town, and that's a good thing.
6
There is a major difference: the US wants to preserve ISIS and AL Nusra as a threat to Assad but the Russians actually want to destroy these terrorist groups. And they may just do it: just watch!
4
The Austrian economics financial blog Zerohedge has produced a helpful "how to"guide for promoting US /anti-Russian propaganda.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-05/useful-prep-sheet-syria-media-p...
In all honesty, it may be very helpful for some commenters here in order to get "on message."
However, for a more comprehensive overview of how this party get started, Hang The Bankers gives a great run down
http://www.hangthebankers.com/world-war-3-why-russia-and-syria-are-being...
Here's why I think they merit review:
Not long ago we had a little war against a country called Iraq. The media essentially regurgitated what the Us government said, without any skepticism, and went along with what now appear to have been deliberate lies by a Zionist/MIC and otherwise militarist 'Deep State' in order to provide pretext for a war long desired.
We learned about the lies, we learned about the bad journalism, but then when it came time to villify Iran or Syria or Russia - while the US literally supported coups nowhere near its shores and literally supported foreign terrorist mercenaries merely to overthrow yet another government - in massively hypocritical fasion it claimed Russia was the aggressor and meddler, and lots of otherwise intelligent people, once again, fell for the exact same propaganda tactics by the same old warmongers.
The one thing we learn from even recent history, is that the American people, even the chattering class, don't learn...
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-05/useful-prep-sheet-syria-media-p...
In all honesty, it may be very helpful for some commenters here in order to get "on message."
However, for a more comprehensive overview of how this party get started, Hang The Bankers gives a great run down
http://www.hangthebankers.com/world-war-3-why-russia-and-syria-are-being...
Here's why I think they merit review:
Not long ago we had a little war against a country called Iraq. The media essentially regurgitated what the Us government said, without any skepticism, and went along with what now appear to have been deliberate lies by a Zionist/MIC and otherwise militarist 'Deep State' in order to provide pretext for a war long desired.
We learned about the lies, we learned about the bad journalism, but then when it came time to villify Iran or Syria or Russia - while the US literally supported coups nowhere near its shores and literally supported foreign terrorist mercenaries merely to overthrow yet another government - in massively hypocritical fasion it claimed Russia was the aggressor and meddler, and lots of otherwise intelligent people, once again, fell for the exact same propaganda tactics by the same old warmongers.
The one thing we learn from even recent history, is that the American people, even the chattering class, don't learn...
7
You have nailed the problem: the American people are sheep. That said, we could say the same thing about the Europeans, and just about everyone else. We are heading straight into a huge brick wall, and people don't even question what the conductors is up to!
3
Hmmm... the tone of many of these "pro-Russian" responses smells suspiciously like the disinformation company in Moscow that the Times reported on a couple of months ago.
3
Bob:
Any chance you've been brainwashed by Western mainstream media?
Any chance you've been brainwashed by Western mainstream media?
6
People are sick of being backdoored into wars without their consent. Obama said he took us out of war in Iraq, and now we are right back in there. Despite what the neocons say, I don't actually consider that a good thing. If Putin thinks he can clean things up without cost to the US taxpayer, let him do so.
3
Hmmm ... I am definitely not pro-Putin, as my many rants against Russian interventionism in Ukraine, Georgia and other countries attests! But I see a lot of people, be they right, left or upside down, who LIKE Russian's intervention in Syria. Not that it will restore the Allouite-based secular regime's power throughout Syria, because it won't, but the intervention can help secure as large a space as possible for the sane people of Syria.
Oh, I forgot to mention the Syrians -- that people for whom the neocons seem to have the final say in the States! How many really support the opposition in Syria? ANY of the rebel groups? Would YOU want to live in an area controlled by Sunni extremists, even those who receive backing from Uncle Sam? If so, you might check with a couple of the hostages who escaped from their clutches first!
Oh, I forgot to mention the Syrians -- that people for whom the neocons seem to have the final say in the States! How many really support the opposition in Syria? ANY of the rebel groups? Would YOU want to live in an area controlled by Sunni extremists, even those who receive backing from Uncle Sam? If so, you might check with a couple of the hostages who escaped from their clutches first!
3
Let 'em go! They'll get slaughtered like they did in Afghanistan and Chechnya. Best thing America can do, is stay out, and let Erdogan solve the problem. Up until now he's been focused on killing Kurds so he can increase his dictatorial powers.
2
We have seen this before, and only a fool would believe it for a second. Remember the invasion of Crimea. Crimea, the territory Russia made treaties that she would leave alone. There were professional operatives not volunteers Crimea and now some are still in Ukraine posing as Ukrainians. Read the KyivPost online.
Putin is playing to his audience at home. He can claim Russia as
a superpower capable of dealing with and frustrating the West
AND perhaps prop up Assad with some bombing and a few
troops. His downside is nothing. We are not going to go to
war with a nuclear power and his economy is already bashed
from Western sanctions and falling oil prices so threats of
further isolation are meaningless to him.
a superpower capable of dealing with and frustrating the West
AND perhaps prop up Assad with some bombing and a few
troops. His downside is nothing. We are not going to go to
war with a nuclear power and his economy is already bashed
from Western sanctions and falling oil prices so threats of
further isolation are meaningless to him.
1
The soulmates Putin and Bush are increasingly likely to share similar legacies.
2
This is about Syria, not what Turkey or Saudi Arabia and the Sunni Gulf States want. Assad is Syrian. The rest are not. Why should their interest supersede that of a Syrian?
Are we getting in front of what's needed? The colonial mentality is still strong in us.
Are we getting in front of what's needed? The colonial mentality is still strong in us.
13
Remarkable how Putin's Russia increasingly looks like Stalin's Soviet Union - driven by an irresistible urge to lie about everything. Russian troops in the Ukraine were not volunteers and the troops in Syria won't be either.
Putin will soon find himself bogged down as we were in Vietnam and Iraq and we both were in Afghanistan.
In the end, only Syrians can solve Syria's problems.
Putin will soon find himself bogged down as we were in Vietnam and Iraq and we both were in Afghanistan.
In the end, only Syrians can solve Syria's problems.
Don't forget, Stalin did take over half the world.
1
Yes, and the US should lead the way by withdrawing its military forces from the Middle East, and from all foreign countries for that matter.
Half the world! Have a look at a map.
Protest away; Putin will do it anyway. Syria can't be saved in any meaningful way and our presence at this potential flashpoint represents risk without reward. This widening quagmire will absorb much of Russia's energy. Our focus needs to be on saving the lives of the survivors.
34
this is extremely dangerous situation now leading a war. should be avoided
The US and NATO should not look a gift horse in the mouth known as Russia and fail to use it. They should saddle up and ride it all the way to victory over ISIS. If Russia wants to expend its blood and treasure to defeat ISIS and Al Qaeda terrorist, we should encourage Mr. Putin in his efforts. As long as there are borders between countries someone is going to overfly/violate them during conflict situations. This is a bogus outrage. The current focus should be on ISIS not Mr. Assad or over flight issues concerning Turkey. The US back Sunnis in Syria are not going to bring peace to the region. They are nothing but ISIS and Al Qaeda sympathizers and enablers. Be aware of who we call friends. If these Sunnis were to come to power, the Alawites, Christians and all other non-Sunni Muslims are endanger of extinction no matter what type of deal we broker with this group. This is a sectarian war funded by Saudi Arabia and other rich gulf nations in the region who fear the decline of Sunni influence and the rise of Iran and the Shias. We cannot solve this religious war. Let Russia expend its time, energy and resources. In the meantime, The US needs to think long-term about Assad. After all Assad's father was in power over 40 years and there was a peace between the various religious factions. By the way, Hafez Al-Assad was also called a tyrant and we did not try to support directly any regime change. Stay out of this conflict and MYOB!
6
Putin putting boots on the ground is a clever and strategically superior move.
If Obama's airstrikes kill Russian solders, guess who the UN will be coming after? Hint: Obama.
Obama leaving office as a war criminal? Absolutely ironic.
If Obama's airstrikes kill Russian solders, guess who the UN will be coming after? Hint: Obama.
Obama leaving office as a war criminal? Absolutely ironic.
5
Day 1, Nobel Peace Price before anything at all has been done.
Last Day, war criminal, after he did what he meant to do.
Still the perfect president for the Liberals, a horror for the rest of us.
Last Day, war criminal, after he did what he meant to do.
Still the perfect president for the Liberals, a horror for the rest of us.
shark, I agree. if only we had a president like Romney, McCain or Pallin in office. These problems would simply not exist. Putin would simply run in fear.
All the articles we find on the Russian intervention in Syria are equally lacking . They all seem to ignore another element in the equation ,and one which may not be as stable as everyone hopes. That player is Israel, whose prime minister and coalition government are floundering with problems they cannot but must control.it would not surprise many if turning up the heat on Israel's borders would be the political solution for the Netanyahu government.
1
I've read plenty about the Israel - Russia relationship. You have to seek out other sources.
It is clear that Assad will be staying in Syria despite all the efforts by the United States to destabilize the country and topple him. This is not necessarily a bad thing. Look what happened when we got rid of Saddam and Gaddafi. US style democracy doesn't work everywhere.
18
Please, I doubt it is about democracy. It is getting rid of leaders that are not favorable to our allies in the region and installing leaders who will not make any waves and will do the bidding of our allies.
Syria is not Afghanistan as the army has supported Assad as the legitimate ruler up to this point. Most concur that ISIS can only be defeated with air and ground troops. Putin is making a commitment that will neutralize ISIS in Syria, cement his relationship with Assad, Iran and, unfortunately with Iraq. Our troops have been wasted and the spoils go to Russia who will now be the petroleum and power player in that part of West Asia.
3
This article devotes no fewer than 20 paragraphs to a single Russian plane that flew over Turkey, retreated, and did no harm. Unlike the Obama drone that killed a wedding party in Afghanistan, and not the first time that's happened under him.
5
Or the MSF hospital we bombed last week.
But hey, those Russians...
But hey, those Russians...
1
Of course, Russia will send troops (as "volunteers"). Thanks to Obama and company, there is a huge power vacuum in the Middle East that Putin is doing his best to fill.
3
To those who prefer a weakened Russia, Putin’s involvement in Mideast wars is a welcome gift.
The Obama administration’s policy should be to do absolutely nothing to stop Putin so that we can all enjoy a jolly good Russian train wreck.
The Obama administration’s policy should be to do absolutely nothing to stop Putin so that we can all enjoy a jolly good Russian train wreck.
11
What about those of us who do not prefer a weakened United States (i.e. people smart enough not to be Obama supporters)?
What you can't seem to admit is that Putin is in Syria cleaning up Obama's jolly good train wreck.
What you can't seem to admit is that Putin is in Syria cleaning up Obama's jolly good train wreck.
3
The Obama administration’s policy has been to do absolutely nothing.
Maybe we should do just that, nothing.
Let Russia do the heavy lifting, and stay out of it.
Win Win for us if ISIS is gone, the civil war ends, and we did not send soldiers nor blew our Treasury doing it. What's not to like about that?
Oh wait yea, I forgot. We're America, if we do not do it, no one else is allowed to.
Maybe we should do just that, nothing.
Let Russia do the heavy lifting, and stay out of it.
Win Win for us if ISIS is gone, the civil war ends, and we did not send soldiers nor blew our Treasury doing it. What's not to like about that?
Oh wait yea, I forgot. We're America, if we do not do it, no one else is allowed to.
If these "volunteers" were to fight for someone and somewhere else, they would be called mercenaries.
Mr. Putin doesn't have worry about quagmires and being bogged down, he has his stratospheric approval ratings in Russia and that's enough - unfortunately.
Mr. Putin doesn't have worry about quagmires and being bogged down, he has his stratospheric approval ratings in Russia and that's enough - unfortunately.
1
yes, but its unlikely they are actually volunteers.
Putin's stratospheric approval numbers won't survive being bogged down anymore than Brezhnev's and his successors did being bogged down in Afghanistan - that was the beginning of the end of Soviet communism. It could be too for the Putin regime of oligarchic capitalism (which turns out to be hardly distinguishable from Soviet communism).
Putin's stratospheric approval numbers won't survive being bogged down anymore than Brezhnev's and his successors did being bogged down in Afghanistan - that was the beginning of the end of Soviet communism. It could be too for the Putin regime of oligarchic capitalism (which turns out to be hardly distinguishable from Soviet communism).
Suggestion for Turkish pilots, When they do it again, and they will, simply come up on their 6 and go to radar weapons lock. No radio warning at all is needed since they KNOW they are violating your airspace. When the Russian pilot's cockpit is lit up with alarms and they think you are about to blow them out of the sky, I doubt they will do it again.
ha ha ha!!!!
Ever played chicken? let's see who blinks first. In fact let's see a Turkish pilot ignite WW III with the twitch of his finger. The Russian pilot will be laughing all the way to his home base, watching the Turk pilot seething with anger, and not been able to do a thing about it.
Surely the Turkish generals know Ankara will be the next bombing target if they tried to do anything but roll over.
Ever played chicken? let's see who blinks first. In fact let's see a Turkish pilot ignite WW III with the twitch of his finger. The Russian pilot will be laughing all the way to his home base, watching the Turk pilot seething with anger, and not been able to do a thing about it.
Surely the Turkish generals know Ankara will be the next bombing target if they tried to do anything but roll over.
This is similar to the "volunteers" that Russia sent into Eastern Ukraine. In our Military, however, we call them Special Ops.
I wonder if the so-called volunteers will wear Russian uniforms without rank or insignia, carry Russian weapons and other paraphernalia, and display Russian battlefield tactics--just like they first did in Crimea.
Vladdie must truly be staying-up nights, retrying to devise more such charades.
http://thetruthoncommonsense.com
I wonder if the so-called volunteers will wear Russian uniforms without rank or insignia, carry Russian weapons and other paraphernalia, and display Russian battlefield tactics--just like they first did in Crimea.
Vladdie must truly be staying-up nights, retrying to devise more such charades.
http://thetruthoncommonsense.com
No one knows if Russia's entry is a good thing or not, they just think they do.
Best to wait and watch how it all evolves. Obama's strategy (and only someone who does not know how the WH and DoD works would think there is no strategy) is optimal. We partially go in and see what happens here and there. We adjust. Risk is managed and we are realistic - well experienced with expensive and failed grand schemes - to understand that you do not go in big, committed to one outcome, in an evolving situation. You need flexibility, room to maneuver, and must understand that any positive outcome will take time and be temporary. There is no Fix: that is old thinking.
Russia has entered a quagmire with Old Thinking, mostly due to domestic considerations. Thank God Obama is ignoring the same fearful, insecure, paleolithic, Republican, chest-beater types that are pulling Putin strings.
Best to wait and watch how it all evolves. Obama's strategy (and only someone who does not know how the WH and DoD works would think there is no strategy) is optimal. We partially go in and see what happens here and there. We adjust. Risk is managed and we are realistic - well experienced with expensive and failed grand schemes - to understand that you do not go in big, committed to one outcome, in an evolving situation. You need flexibility, room to maneuver, and must understand that any positive outcome will take time and be temporary. There is no Fix: that is old thinking.
Russia has entered a quagmire with Old Thinking, mostly due to domestic considerations. Thank God Obama is ignoring the same fearful, insecure, paleolithic, Republican, chest-beater types that are pulling Putin strings.
1
So Obama has a strategy and Putin doesn't. Are you so far into the tank with Obama that you will disbelieve the evidence of your own eyes. The emperor has no clothes and he has been naked for the last 7 years. Take the blinders off.
As a liberal, perhaps moderate-minded, individual, who seeks world peace where all people can have health, happiness and the pursuit of liberty, i think the Russians are taking the bull by the horn and going after the bad guys. Maybe, they are not connecting all the dots or doing so in a proper order, but they definitely seem to be taking steps against ISIS and terrorism. Assad is a bad guy, but ISIS is much worse and can do much more damage. I bet even the Israelis are happy that Russia is in Syria. Meanwhile, we do nothing and the President that I voted for twice appears weak and confused. Talk is cheap; action is sometimes required to stop the bad guys.
4
I feel so presidential today! Obama and I are both watching the news and doing nothing about it.
2
You and Obama are both wise.
When T-Rex is nearby and about to step into the tar pits, you're right -- you watch and do nothing about it.
When T-Rex is nearby and about to step into the tar pits, you're right -- you watch and do nothing about it.
Good for Obama! It shouldn't be America's job to make the world safe for Saudi Arabia and the Islamic State. If the Russians want to crush the Islamists, I say let them! Assad is a dictator but it should be abundantly clear to everyone by now that the Middle-East can't function without dictatorial rulers.
2
This made me laugh more than I should have.
You are not wrong sir.
You are not wrong sir.
Just looking at the maps, it is clear that the Syrian Government troops have to go trough rebel occupied territory to get to the ISIS occupied territory. No point in fighting ISIS when you are being attacked from the back. First you bomb the main infrastructure and then you send in the troops to wipe the area clean off rebels and ISIS fighters. This all appears to be a sound strategy.
Looks like Assad will be back in power soon and will start eliminating his enemies and terrorizing his own citizens again. I am not sure if the Russians have a plan for that.
Looks like Assad will be back in power soon and will start eliminating his enemies and terrorizing his own citizens again. I am not sure if the Russians have a plan for that.
4
But with Assad back in power, at least we will not have ISIS killing Christians, widespread beheadings, homosexuals thrown to their death off buildings and he does not make a practice of blowing up ancient ruins and killing those in charge of preserving them. Somehow I think the Syrian people may welcome Assad 'back in power'.
1
'Somehow I think the Syrian people may welcome Assad 'back in power'.'
They would, if we stopped telling them to hate him.
Somehow I think, that if we left them to their own devices, they would right their ship, their way. If we keep shoving American brand democracy on them, look at the fine mess we make.
They would, if we stopped telling them to hate him.
Somehow I think, that if we left them to their own devices, they would right their ship, their way. If we keep shoving American brand democracy on them, look at the fine mess we make.
1
How do you say "quagmire" in Russian?
1
Like this: "American intervention"
Russia crossing into Turkish airspace. What bout Turkish, US, French, British, Israeli, Saudi and Qataris' aggression against Syria. This has been going on since March 2011. Here there doesn't seem to be a problem for Mr. Stoltenberg.
35
I was trying to find a reason why Putin wanted to directly intervene in a violent, complex conflict that has smoldered on for four years. Why now instead of 2013 and 2014? It's definitely suspicious, and the short NY Times video embedded in this article did not provide much light on Putin's motivations because the man is extremely cynical. Putin yearns to remain in and enhance his power within Russia and nothing more, and he definitely does not have a cohesive ideology to validate his geopolitical moves--even this silly notion that he believes democracies lead to mob rule and chaos is pure bunk. He only believes in one thing--how to keep Putin on the Russian throne.
So, keeping this in mind, the only good explanation for Putin's johnny-come-lately intervention in the Syrian civil war is one provided by a commenter below--Putin is trying to gin up the global oil price up to $75 to $100, and perpetual war in Syria that will spill over to other parts of the Middle East is his best bet. That way he keeps his kleptocratic billionaire friends in the Kremlin happy because oil revenues will revive, he provides a boost to the Russian economy, and he gets a nice bump in the revenues he uses as slush funds to prop up his rule. It's a win-win for Putin. Not so much for the benighted people in Syria and Iraq, and even for the embattled Assad regime itself.
So, keeping this in mind, the only good explanation for Putin's johnny-come-lately intervention in the Syrian civil war is one provided by a commenter below--Putin is trying to gin up the global oil price up to $75 to $100, and perpetual war in Syria that will spill over to other parts of the Middle East is his best bet. That way he keeps his kleptocratic billionaire friends in the Kremlin happy because oil revenues will revive, he provides a boost to the Russian economy, and he gets a nice bump in the revenues he uses as slush funds to prop up his rule. It's a win-win for Putin. Not so much for the benighted people in Syria and Iraq, and even for the embattled Assad regime itself.
4
Russia and Iran are consolidating their positions in Syria while US strategy is to be a passive bystander. The administration's policy seems to strengthen our enemies at every turn.
1
Russia consolidating its position in Syria will strengthen Russia about as much as America's involvement in Iraq strengthened America.
Also see: "Soviet Union in Afghanistan” and "US in Vietnam.”
Also see: "Soviet Union in Afghanistan” and "US in Vietnam.”
Assad will be "consolidating" from a position of weakness and nothing about this fight will strengthen Russia in any way. ISIS will simply scatter as Assad "liberates" various areas, and then his decimated army will be stretched too thin and Putin will have to send in troops--real troops--to bail them out. It will spiral from there. Russians will be occupiers in a hostile land surrounded by highly motivated, suicidal ISIS units. This will not strengthen Russia.
You mean re-consolidating their positions? Syria was firmly in the pro-Russian, pro-Iranian camp before 2011. Ukraine was in the pro-Russian camp, too. This administration has wisely concluded that America became overstretched when it tried to take Ukraine for the EU and Syria for the Saudis. The United States was still powerful prior to the attempt to overthrow Assad, and still will be even if the Russians somehow manage to rescue him.
One can't say that the Russians do not provide advanced warning as to their intentions, even if the White House is often guard unawares. There is every reason to believe them that Russian ground forces will soon be in Syria, whether as volunteers, "volunteers" or in any other capacity.
As Russia has no intention of attacking Turkey and the incursion was a mistake, less serious than US mistakes of late, NATO's warnings are irrelevant. The US and West will continue to wait and watch. At some point they will wake up to the fact that action must be taken, and then it will be too late. There might be some good speeches along the way though.
As Russia has no intention of attacking Turkey and the incursion was a mistake, less serious than US mistakes of late, NATO's warnings are irrelevant. The US and West will continue to wait and watch. At some point they will wake up to the fact that action must be taken, and then it will be too late. There might be some good speeches along the way though.
5
Looking at the graphic of the US and Russian airstrikes leaves me scratching my head a bit. US strikes very little of the territory controlled by ISIL, and Russian strikes are clustered at the US-backed rebels--neither one is striking the terrorists. Russia just got there, but the US has had more time to have an impact, and has not. What is really going on here? ISIL is largely gathered at the river, with offshoots along the route to Homs via Palmyra. In the meantime, with Russia striking in rebel territory, it's pushing ISIL up against Kurdish-controlled territory, further stressing their resources. I'm still a bit confused why the US is not helping the Kurds more--a classic pincer tactic could be pulled off there. Of course, I'm not a strategist, but that way you could stay close to the water.
The site of the airstrikes is sourced to central command (US) and to the "Syrian Observatory" in Coventry, England, part of the opposition. In other words, it's just what is being claimed by the rebels. The times made no effort to secure info from the Syrian Government or other balancing sources.
By way of Anne Applebaum, "Russia's War Plan in Syria":
https://www.rusi.org/analysis/commentary/ref:C560E9A3D1FCD8/#.VhKpmNbxSkj
Islamic State is a pretext and a red herring. Stunning revelation.
"While the West bears moral responsibility for the fate of the Syrian moderate opposition against Assad, it is doomed to sit idle and watch them be hit by Russian bombs. The Kremlin’s quite correct calculation was that the West would be unwilling to use the only tool – military power – capable of immediately stopping Russian operations targeting groups the West supports; Russia would be able to achieve its goals unopposed. In this sense, the Syria campaign is the next step in development of Russia’s modus operandi after Eastern Ukraine, thus marking the general direction of Russian policy in disputed areas around the globe in the future.
"The feeling is rapidly spreading among the Western-backed armed opposition that they have been betrayed by their supporters: to them, it looks like the West has secretly made the deal with Russia and washed its hands, letting Russian and Syrian forces methodically destroy them. This means a general weakening of Western credibility and soft-power influence, both in Syria and elsewhere – outcomes very much welcomed by the Kremlin too."
https://www.rusi.org/analysis/commentary/ref:C560E9A3D1FCD8/#.VhKpmNbxSkj
Islamic State is a pretext and a red herring. Stunning revelation.
"While the West bears moral responsibility for the fate of the Syrian moderate opposition against Assad, it is doomed to sit idle and watch them be hit by Russian bombs. The Kremlin’s quite correct calculation was that the West would be unwilling to use the only tool – military power – capable of immediately stopping Russian operations targeting groups the West supports; Russia would be able to achieve its goals unopposed. In this sense, the Syria campaign is the next step in development of Russia’s modus operandi after Eastern Ukraine, thus marking the general direction of Russian policy in disputed areas around the globe in the future.
"The feeling is rapidly spreading among the Western-backed armed opposition that they have been betrayed by their supporters: to them, it looks like the West has secretly made the deal with Russia and washed its hands, letting Russian and Syrian forces methodically destroy them. This means a general weakening of Western credibility and soft-power influence, both in Syria and elsewhere – outcomes very much welcomed by the Kremlin too."
1
Obama is nearing another historic first.
Thanks to Obama's incompetence, arrogance and ignorance, Russia may call an emergency meeting of the UN General Assembly to order the United States OUT of Syria.
China, Iran and Israel will be on Putin's side.
Germany? France? UK? Who knows.
Obama should resign. Like yesterday.
Thanks to Obama's incompetence, arrogance and ignorance, Russia may call an emergency meeting of the UN General Assembly to order the United States OUT of Syria.
China, Iran and Israel will be on Putin's side.
Germany? France? UK? Who knows.
Obama should resign. Like yesterday.
1
Israel? you don't think they'll bite the hand that feeds them surely?
That's all but guaranteed.
After bombing an Afghan civilian hospital, NATO officials warned the Kremlin after a Russian warplane invaded Turkey’s airspace.
Good job.
Good job.
34
"Russia’s escalation has come as the Americans and Turks are intensifying their aerial attacks to pressure the Islamic State extremist group..." For the sake of accuracy, the correct timeline would be that NATO aerial attacks intensified following bombardment by the Russians. This is a small but significant detail.
14
The Russians flew into Turkey's airspace and then flew out . The US flew into Afghanistan's airspace and bombed a hospital in 5 sorties over half hour killing many medical staff and burning patients to death in their beds. What was worse?
68
We are legally in Afghanistan's airspace and made a mistake. If you want to play this game, I would say that the Russians intentionally killing a million Afghanis during their war in Afghanistan or obliterating Grozny were worse.
The hospital bombing was an accident. Called in by the Afghanis. Sad, but still an accident.
1
Er, the US was given bad information by the Afghans. Accidents will, sadly, happen in war. However, we did not violate Afghan airspace; we are there at the invitation of the Afghan government. Furthermore, we are there in a good cause, fighting the Taliban -- something that cannot be said of the Russians, who are in Syria to prop up their murderous pet dictator. This is a difference that moral people will recognize; those who do not understand morality and compassion will not.
Putting aside this incident, the bigger question is what is Putin aiming for in Syria? Part of the Russian engagement reflects his vision of reasserting his country's role on the world stage, which in turn involves being a player in the Middle East. But beyond that vision, there does not seem to be any real strategy in terms of how that engagement will play out. At best, he's a tactical thinker who sees only one or two steps ahead.
In any event, his main impetus for engagement is domestic and boils down to keeping himself in power. Jumping from war to war and crisis to crisis is one way of doing so. We might even wonder whether he'd welcome the almost inevitable ISIL-conducted or ISIL-inspired domestic attacks that will follow in the wake of his alienating the Sunni world by so aggressively backing Assad. I'm not sure I'd go that far, but there's the possibility that he could turn them to his advantage.
The really big danger here is that this narrow-minded KGB officer cum President is launching Russian military activities excruciatingly close to those of the United States and its allies. Putin certainly isn't looking for that kind of confrontation, but World War One and other rapidly escalating conflicts have been sparked by such foolishness.
In any event, his main impetus for engagement is domestic and boils down to keeping himself in power. Jumping from war to war and crisis to crisis is one way of doing so. We might even wonder whether he'd welcome the almost inevitable ISIL-conducted or ISIL-inspired domestic attacks that will follow in the wake of his alienating the Sunni world by so aggressively backing Assad. I'm not sure I'd go that far, but there's the possibility that he could turn them to his advantage.
The really big danger here is that this narrow-minded KGB officer cum President is launching Russian military activities excruciatingly close to those of the United States and its allies. Putin certainly isn't looking for that kind of confrontation, but World War One and other rapidly escalating conflicts have been sparked by such foolishness.
38
Perhaps the track record of the US and its allies can also be described as 'foolishness' eg Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan to name but a few...
1
He's engaging in a country he was invited into - which is all well and legal, as opposed to what this fake coalition authorized themselves and has been pretending to do. I know it's easy to take on bias but honestly how many times can people expect them to just roll over and allow the U.S. to not only encroach on this interests but blatantly take them over? Nobody sees the recurring theme in all these uprisings lately?
The more pertinent alarmism should hover over how out of control we've been acting the last several years. When a drunken idiot gets his arm torn off because he thought he was faster and smarter than the stupid sleeping bear he threw rocks at, are you going to give him your pity when he comes begging for it by playing the victim?
The more pertinent alarmism should hover over how out of control we've been acting the last several years. When a drunken idiot gets his arm torn off because he thought he was faster and smarter than the stupid sleeping bear he threw rocks at, are you going to give him your pity when he comes begging for it by playing the victim?
1
Read Putin's remarks to the UN. I think it is more a defensive than a move to conquer. They are saving their naval base (same as Crimea) and also a 60-year ally. Close to the US Allies? Like those on Russia's border?
1
"The 1980s called, they want their foreign policy back." What a rube. We'll be lucky if China doesn't seize Taiwan before he leaves office.
4
And if the other guy was in office, we would all be happy guarding our food from armed marauders while the 1% enjoy their meals in guarded communities.
5
"The 1980s called, they want their foreign policy back."
- Urgent cable to Putin.
- Urgent cable to Putin.
1
Wonderful, let Russian troops do the on the ground dying to save Bashar al-Assad. The US managed to make a mess of Iraq and Afghanistan. Russia, formerly the USSR, had a round in Afghanistan and needs a Syrian debacle to match the US in Middle Eastern failures.
Russian troops dying is much better than American Troops dying for a Middle East dictator.
Russian troops dying is much better than American Troops dying for a Middle East dictator.
7
Don't be so sure they will fail. I am not sure the US 'wants' to win as the presence of ISIS in the Middle East creates precisely the sort of instability and disorder the US and Israel want:as Caesar said, Divide and Rule. The Russians may just make the effort to destroy the military capability of ISIS and Al Nusra in Syria and this may, indeed, be why the State Department and the propaganda pawns are so 'horrified' by Russia's involvement in Syria.
7
"dying is much better"
Dying is no good therefore it cannot better or worse.
Dying is no good therefore it cannot better or worse.
We are all 'volunteers', according to Putin. Follows along with the idea if your in opposition to any government, you are a terrorist. Why be surprised? Putin is always available to explain, like he does with O.
Uh-oh! Did "they" cross Obama's "Red Line"...again? Face it, globally, Obama's viewed by world leaders as weak, indecisive, feckless, immature and certainly IN OVER HIS HEAD! The man is a classic dunce.
4
Don't like Obama much?
Hey, that's not fair! Only Americans should be sent and die in Syria. What if Russians help win the war? Then America can't claim the glory! Not fair, not fair at all!
5
Everything is as expected, US is allowed for any level of collateral damage and still be a democracy protectors, while Russia should be demonized for simple error (no harm done) despite an immediate admission and explanation.
Equal opportunity for everyone.
Equal opportunity for everyone.
34
Ever notice that all viable ME countries have tough leaders that do not respect human rights. Middle Easterners gravitate towards this kind of power and will easily switch sides so they are in line with the most powerful. This is alien to our way of thinking and against our moral upbringing, but to Syrians and others in the ME it is the only way to lead or control a people divided by just about everything. Also, if there is something that is being given away (training/ arms, etc.), they will take it. As long as the goody's are flowing they will do and say whatever the giver wants to hear. But as soon as the goods stop, they will go back to the way they were. ISIS is cruel, and as a result is respected. They fill the leadership gap in areas where it is weak or non-existant. Putin understands this and this is why he is supporting Assad and not the rebels. As for volunteer forces, these are the same guys that bolstering the rebels in the Ukraine. No problem there, it is Soviet policy to divide and conquer the best way possible.
8
I've also noticed the refugees of this conflict pass through areas that are not actively at war, to get to Europe. Why is that? I suspect that this too has to do with "goodies", as there are ME countries that would be much better suited to their needs. Similar cultures, religions and beliefs that they would adjust to much more quickly than trying to assimilate to than those of Europeans. Even the weather of Europe is drastically different than what they are accustomed to.
Go for it, Russia!
If you have even half the success that we had in Iraq, then your country should be negatively effected by it for only a decade or two.
If you have even half the success that we had in Iraq, then your country should be negatively effected by it for only a decade or two.
30
There is a difference between what Russia is doing and what we did in Iraq. Russia is supporting the violent dictator, we supported the people. In the ME it's the dictators that win.
1
We supported who?
DSS: We supported the people of Iraq so well we killed hundreds of thousands of them. Is what you wrote how you convince yourself to sleep some nights?
Of course, Turkey would object to any witness of their genocidal program against the Kurds.
5
If Russian aircraft violated Turkish airspace, who not let the Turks complain about it instead of NATO. As far as Russia is concerned NATO is a political and military instrument of the United States, a red flag of conflict aimed at Russia. If Turkey doesn't complain, then the Russia didn't violate Turkish airspace. Until the U.S. sits down and negotiates with the U.S. and UN Security Council the requirements for peace in the Middle East, U.S. objections are like air in the wind.
2
Russia's behaviour is getting more and more irresponsible.
There's a good saying that applies to Mr. Putin quite well "Tell me who your friends are, and I will tell you who you are." Who are Mr. Putin's friends and allies?
There's a good saying that applies to Mr. Putin quite well "Tell me who your friends are, and I will tell you who you are." Who are Mr. Putin's friends and allies?
4
The NYT is referring to Russia as a superpower again, right there in the second paragraph, so Putin's primary objective is complete.
5
This morning, a Russian expert on NPR corrected the reporter: this is not a repeat of Afghanistan, it is Russia's Viet Nam. This summary seems correct because Viet Nam was a nationalistic rebellion against a colonial power. Iran and their ally, Russia, are a colonial power.
4
Oh yes. I so trust the "experts" trotted out by NPR and especially when the NY times says "officials and experts say".
Listen, but this is just a silly.
Russia is now doing, what should to do
NATO and the United States. Russia is doing YOUR job.
Fighting with terrorists!
And you are hypocritically bring this claim.
No one was hurt.
The United States in Iraq, Afghanistan, killed so many people
with "friendly fire". You do not even know how many!
It would be better if this topic not appeared...
Russia is now doing, what should to do
NATO and the United States. Russia is doing YOUR job.
Fighting with terrorists!
And you are hypocritically bring this claim.
No one was hurt.
The United States in Iraq, Afghanistan, killed so many people
with "friendly fire". You do not even know how many!
It would be better if this topic not appeared...
4
Dear Vasily,
Please keep supporting Putin. Please encourage Putin to send hundreds of thousands of Russian ground troops to fight in the Levant. It will be very good for the citizens of Russia.
Signed,
-Someone who desperately wants Russia to do America's Mideast "job."
Please keep supporting Putin. Please encourage Putin to send hundreds of thousands of Russian ground troops to fight in the Levant. It will be very good for the citizens of Russia.
Signed,
-Someone who desperately wants Russia to do America's Mideast "job."
Well. The mess in the Middle East gets even messier. Plaudits to the West that sat on its hands for three years and did nothing to assist those fighting Assad.
With Russia entering the war, Assad has protection and new life infused into his brutal regime.
And Russia, after five centuries of struggle to get a warm water port, will have a permanent presence on the Mediterranean.
Is Obama going to draw another red line? Or have all Obama's red pens been taken away from him?
With Russia entering the war, Assad has protection and new life infused into his brutal regime.
And Russia, after five centuries of struggle to get a warm water port, will have a permanent presence on the Mediterranean.
Is Obama going to draw another red line? Or have all Obama's red pens been taken away from him?
4
If you are old enough or you actually studied your history, this kind of reminds you of the Spanish Civil War in the 1930's, except for Obama who is weak and refuses to fight. Once again we will be on the loosing side.
1
In this war there are no winners. The smartest thing to do is stay out of the competition.
1
I don't think NATO and the U.S. are in any position to lecture Russia about its actions. Perhaps Russia might be trying to help stabilize a country - that's actually fairly close geographically - so that it isn't overrun with chaos...you know, sort of like the United States and its allies did to Iraq, Libya, Yemen, etc. And as for fighters in Syria backed by the U.S. - could we be talking about the 500 million dollars spent on those 5 individuals of that nebulous group that the U.S. government likes to trot out called the "Syrian moderates." I would think that after a decade or more (or going back even further in time) of U.S. military disasters, we might actually try a new approach, like working with other countries, and maybe not trying to exert our influence and "interests" in every corner of the world. Doesn't seem to have worked very well.
11
For some reason this article has a much different tone than the one you ran a few days ago about the US 'Volunteer' Forces http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/04/magazine/meet-the-american-vigilantes-...
27
Brilliant
interesting approach from Nato: 2 Russian warplanes crossed the border with Turkey (that is in any case unacceptable) and everyone gets crazy but Turkey can support and fund ISIS, US/NATO can violate Syria airspace without permission of their government, Saudi can violate and bomb Yemen, Israel can bomb Palestine, USA can easily bomb an hospital and claim that's "collateral damage" and so on.... the world is fair..
22
And the US and its "democracy{ NGOs can support coups in Ukraine, and that too, is OK?
The question remains as to "Who the Russian volunteer army is fighting for?" The Americans are fighting the terrorists, is Russia with us on this? Their flight over allied Turkish territory suggests otherwise.
12
The US has technology that can read a licence plate from space and sees every Russian asset and manoeuvre, yet they 'somehow' fail to notice convoys of ISIL Humvees and pickups in open desert. This failure alone tells us that the US is not fighting ISIL but turning a blind eye. NATO member, Turkey is more interested in fighting Kurds. So yes, Russia is with 'us', but not US foreign policy.
Who is the CIA arming? Are you sure we're not supporting terrorists?
...where have you been? Obama's been supporting the al-Qaeda backed Rebels, known to the rest of the World as Terrorists. Russia's been targeting ISIS and other Terrorist groups that's been destabilizing the country and causing a massive refugee crisis throughout Europe. Russia stated the flight over Turkey was a mistake and said it would not happen again.
So what makes anyone believe that removing Assad will create a more viable, stable Syria? Who/what among the motley of rebels will fill the vacuum? How?
49
These are very pertinent questions countries bombing Syria ignore. Stupidity or ignorance or both?
I don't think the point is to hand it to the rebels, but rather to another leader in the power structure who is acceptable enough to end the civil war and turn the country's force to ISIS.
I find it appalling but in a perverse sort of way gratifying that what the MSM and liberals called as crazy coming from Mitt Romney's mouth in the 2012 debates, is now a reality.
2
It's still crazy. The Chinese are far, far more dangerous to the United States than Russia. They are our greatest enemy.
maybe Romney knew the plan?
Russia’s escalation has come as the Americans and Turks are intensifying their aerial attacks to pressure the Islamic State extremist group, which has seized swaths of Syria and Iraq. The Americans see the Islamic State as the most dangerous immediate threat and view Russia’s moves as prolonging and possibly widening the war....
[ Russia's objective at the request of the Syrian government is to stop the wildly violent insurgency in Syria and that should be our objective and should have been our implicit objective for several years during which time we were explicitly supporting the insurgency. ]
[ Russia's objective at the request of the Syrian government is to stop the wildly violent insurgency in Syria and that should be our objective and should have been our implicit objective for several years during which time we were explicitly supporting the insurgency. ]
4
Wow ! What a timing of this incident. Now who cares about razing an hospital in Afghanistan by NATO. It's buried, both news and the doctors without Borders.
91
The hospital bombing was an accident of war and is absolutely nothing compared to what Russia, Iran and ISIS are up to in the Middle East. That region has become a powder keg of epic proportion.
1
Angela Merkel is nowhere to be seen on that picture with Ashton Carter. Oh, that's right she is probably in Syria checking out how Germany can enter that place and work out a deal with Putin.
4
We need leaders who will remove US from the cycle of endless wars. The Democrats and Republicans are not up to the task. Hillary and the GOP crew of candidates are unable to contain their warlike natures, which will ruin our budget, ruin our futures. What have we gained in the last 25 years of wars? Security? Resources? Stability? Hell no.
35
NATO warms the Russsian's for flying via Turkey to bomb Americans enemies, while Turkey bombs America's true allies on the ground the Kurds.
75
Except there is no proof yet that the Russkies have bombed any ISIS, Al Qaeda or Al Nusra targets.
1
I'm sure the Russian troll factory will be hard a work soon posting to this page how reasonable and peace-loving Dictator Putin is.
“It’s likely that, within the ranks of the Syrian Army, formations of Russian combat volunteers will appear,” he told Russian news agencies. He said the volunteers were bent on heading to Syria and “cannot be stopped.”
So now, the "volunteers" (Russian paid mercenaries) can be shifted by the plane load from their conquest of Ukraine to support fellow dictator Bashar Al Assad. The Russians are clearly showing that their answer to having a second world economy is to prop up Dictator Putin with a return to an active cold war military. Hopefully, the Russian people will see through Putin's deceptions and rise up to take him down.
“It’s likely that, within the ranks of the Syrian Army, formations of Russian combat volunteers will appear,” he told Russian news agencies. He said the volunteers were bent on heading to Syria and “cannot be stopped.”
So now, the "volunteers" (Russian paid mercenaries) can be shifted by the plane load from their conquest of Ukraine to support fellow dictator Bashar Al Assad. The Russians are clearly showing that their answer to having a second world economy is to prop up Dictator Putin with a return to an active cold war military. Hopefully, the Russian people will see through Putin's deceptions and rise up to take him down.
18
Hey, whats wrong with dictator's, they keep the peace.
Too bad the anti Putin trolling factory beat them to the punch posting to this page how unreasonable and peace hating dictator/tsar/thug/tyrant/despot/gangster/villain Putin is.
All kidding aside Putin offers to clear the mess of American doing. US should be thankful it doesn't have to send it's own troops to fight ISIS and those semi terrorists aka Syrian rebels. And NATO's warnings are nothing but attempts to keep up the illusion of own relevancy by stoking cold war fears. That's a definition of warmongering.
All kidding aside Putin offers to clear the mess of American doing. US should be thankful it doesn't have to send it's own troops to fight ISIS and those semi terrorists aka Syrian rebels. And NATO's warnings are nothing but attempts to keep up the illusion of own relevancy by stoking cold war fears. That's a definition of warmongering.
Are we really ready to start ww3 over the 5 free Syrian army fellows we might have under command?
Prove to us they haven't sold their weapons for a ticket to europe.
19
This isn't a "we" thing.
Obama is doing this craziness on his own, as our military leaders are all but walking around with paper bags over their heads in shame.
Obama is doing this craziness on his own, as our military leaders are all but walking around with paper bags over their heads in shame.
Now Turkey wants to be active memeber of Nato when the Russian fly over their space are they not big enough to speak up or they trying to hide behind us.
Turkey does not belong in NATO
Forget this region is not worth the time and money
Turkey does not belong in NATO
Forget this region is not worth the time and money
9
Hey, facts matter. Turkey is a member of NATO, but sometimes you would not know this by their actions.
2
The problem is the US. We have decided that we alone will remove from power any ruler we consider undemocratic or who oppresses his people. We have empowered ourselves to make that decision.
IF you want to know how that has worked out for us you have only to look at Libya and Iraq - Libya is a failed states, Iraq is unable to hold on to large areas of the country which have been seized by ISIS. Ignoring Libya, we are now concentrating on ISIS which has its HQ in Syria. But first we have to remove them from Iraq - not an easy job since they are deeply embedded in Mosul, as Sunni town. We do only pin-prick bombing to their HQ in Raqqa and they are well entrenched there.
As for Syria we would do well to sit down with all interested parties and simply partition SYria between Shia, Sunni, and Kurds. That is a more rational solution than trying to remove Assad or turning a blind-eye while Turkey bombs the Kurds. It is impossible to ever put Syria back in one piece. Too much blood has been spilled and there are now too many who hate one another.
IF you want to know how that has worked out for us you have only to look at Libya and Iraq - Libya is a failed states, Iraq is unable to hold on to large areas of the country which have been seized by ISIS. Ignoring Libya, we are now concentrating on ISIS which has its HQ in Syria. But first we have to remove them from Iraq - not an easy job since they are deeply embedded in Mosul, as Sunni town. We do only pin-prick bombing to their HQ in Raqqa and they are well entrenched there.
As for Syria we would do well to sit down with all interested parties and simply partition SYria between Shia, Sunni, and Kurds. That is a more rational solution than trying to remove Assad or turning a blind-eye while Turkey bombs the Kurds. It is impossible to ever put Syria back in one piece. Too much blood has been spilled and there are now too many who hate one another.
21
Genie's never return to their bottles.
Putin's in desperate need of getting the price of oil above at least $75 per barrel, if not $100. Given the Russian economy's dependence on oil exports, Putin's kleptocratic house of cards in Russia depends on it.
With his military now in Syria, Putin can directly foster a wider-ranging and more prolonged conflict. As we know, the greater the chaos and instability in the Middle East, the higher the price of oil goes. Putin's direct involvement in Syria will not end well.
With his military now in Syria, Putin can directly foster a wider-ranging and more prolonged conflict. As we know, the greater the chaos and instability in the Middle East, the higher the price of oil goes. Putin's direct involvement in Syria will not end well.
18
"As we know, the greater the chaos and instability in the Middle East, the higher the price of oil goes."
As we knew, past tense, before fracking. Not true anymore.
As we knew, past tense, before fracking. Not true anymore.
Of course this is all about the price of oil, what else could be about if not that?
Yes, this is main reason for Russia's involvement in Syria. As simple as that...
In time, Russian forays into NATO space will backfire on them. Putin is holding a losing hand as he forces NATO to consolidate its position. His moves will strengthen a resolve which thus far has absent.
Syria....Russians never learn.
Syria....Russians never learn.
5
Putin say the kind of stones President "red line" has. Suffice to say he isn't impressed. Obama has no spine to strenghthen. And without the US, NATO will do nothing.
Many people in New York and Washington seem to miss the Cold War and would like to see it started up again so they can write columns and pontificate about it. Forty years of that was quite enough.
64
THe US should support Russia here, but the ossified neo-cons can't bear to watch a war and be lrft out,
Only something positive cvan come of active Russian involvement in Syrias if the goal is to stabilize the area, including the destruction of a true horror like Isis,
I still don't see why any of this is a US problem or interfest. We can steal oil from many other places to keep our oligarchy running smoothly.
If Israel doesn't like some aspect of the matgter, let it commit its own forces,
Only something positive cvan come of active Russian involvement in Syrias if the goal is to stabilize the area, including the destruction of a true horror like Isis,
I still don't see why any of this is a US problem or interfest. We can steal oil from many other places to keep our oligarchy running smoothly.
If Israel doesn't like some aspect of the matgter, let it commit its own forces,
1
Actually, the attitude is more like "We don't want to do this, will Putin just calm down"? In the end, it will be up to him: how far he's willing to push. At some point, if the provocations grow too egregious, the West will have to push back.
Putin is doing everything he can to remind the Western powers that he exists and they cannot afford to ignore him. But the problem is the bigger his splash, the more the Western powers want to isolate him. As a dictator , annexing Crimea might be the summit of his career.
4
I don't see Germany, France, Italy or the UK isolating Russia.
What I do see is Russia making international alliances with Western powers, and with Iran and China.
The rest of the world, thanks to Barack Obama, is isolating the USA.
You've got it exactly backwards.
What I do see is Russia making international alliances with Western powers, and with Iran and China.
The rest of the world, thanks to Barack Obama, is isolating the USA.
You've got it exactly backwards.
3
@DC - what are you talking about? Russia is already well-allied with Iran, China and Syria too. Been that way for decades.
No developed or developing country in the rest of the world would for its own good want to isolate USA. Even Israel, with all the recent big talk and loud noise with regard to the Iran nuclear deal, defers to the US. Netanyahu yesterday told CNN's Fareed when questioned about his tone and temper re Obama, tried to gloss over all that and said he didn't wish to 'rehash the past' any longer. He did not even make the tiniest attempt to defend his earlier posturing.
As most bureaucrats and experts will tell you re the current situation in ME, the US knows who are all the bad actors but we do not yet know who are the 'good guys' we can side with. That is statesmanship. And before you even start on redlines in Syria, remember that it was Congress who stalled him for a vote and conveniently decided to leave that on the back-burner!
No developed or developing country in the rest of the world would for its own good want to isolate USA. Even Israel, with all the recent big talk and loud noise with regard to the Iran nuclear deal, defers to the US. Netanyahu yesterday told CNN's Fareed when questioned about his tone and temper re Obama, tried to gloss over all that and said he didn't wish to 'rehash the past' any longer. He did not even make the tiniest attempt to defend his earlier posturing.
As most bureaucrats and experts will tell you re the current situation in ME, the US knows who are all the bad actors but we do not yet know who are the 'good guys' we can side with. That is statesmanship. And before you even start on redlines in Syria, remember that it was Congress who stalled him for a vote and conveniently decided to leave that on the back-burner!
People should be very concerned about this. These kinds of "mistakes" can easily start a war. Putin knows this.
The real question is whether he is counting on it.
The real question is whether he is counting on it.
42
The US and Russia should agree ahead of time that any accidents or "accidents" will be resolved and retaliated against within the Syrian war theatre.
Bob the blame should fall solely on the U.S. We've been at war for 14 years in the region. Perhaps our government should have given it the same thought.
In the bizarro world that we live in, yes. In a normal world, the U.S would welcome Russia's help in fighting ISIS and extremists. But since we live in a bizarre world , the U.S chooses to arm "rebels" and try overthrow yet another middle eastern leader, even though that's never worked . See Iraq. See Libya.
Putin probably is probably laughing at NATO's and Obama's response. He should probably take a strong leader's warning in Erdogan more seriously though.
3
Ridiculous, Russia admitted an error had been made. The error caused no harm. What is the point then of bashing Russia or is that the only way in which we can imagine dealing with Russia these days? This scapegoating of Russia is only a mask for policy failings of NATO and the United States, and can only prove self-defeating since Russia should be treated as a close ally.
127
I must disagree, comrade. Russia should be distrusted. The response to such provocation should be swift and without apology.
1
"Volunteer" forces in Syria? You don't think that ups the ante for conflict from air space violations? Well, since you have defended fervently every action Russia has taken printed in these pages, undoubtedly you see this only as another example of the great emphasis Putin places on personal liberty in Russia.
2
Seriously, a mistake?! What planet are you from? Russia has been entering Nato and the U.S. airspace deliberately for the last two years. If Russia is looking for a fight, I'm sure NATO won't back down this time.
NATO warnings don't even carry as much weight as Obama's red line warnings. Which isn't that much.
17
Phew, fortunate for this violation, so the NYT can allow U.S. officials to fulminate about Russia and forget about the Afghan hospital the U.S. just razed.
135
If it in fact happened and not manufactured for the exact purpose of fulminating about Russia to forget about the Afghan hospital the US just razed.
And all those poor people in Yemen who are being bombed mercilessly by our ally, Saudi Arabia and their coalition, supported by the U.S. which rarely gets U.S. mainstream media coverage.
3
That has to be the lamest excuse for anti-Americanism I have ever heard, bar none. That 118 people have so far recommended this risible non-sequitur causes me to lose all hope in the prospects of humanity.
Coming soon, $100+ a barrel of oil.
6
Why?
$100 + if a republican get into the white house.
It would appear that Russia is about to overreach. It is a short step from a border violation to an actual dogfight between Turkish and Russian jets. In addition, the statement by Admiral Vladimir Komoyedov that pro-Russian veterans of the conflict in eastern Ukraine side will most “likely” start showing up as a volunteer battalion in Syria also represents an ominous escalation -- if only in rhetoric. Ukrainians, I am sure, would be happy to see all "volunteers" in E. Ukraine magically disappear into the Middle East, but that's about the only benefit I can see from such a new aggressive step. Some people say that the Russians are only planning for a three or four month war to "stabilize" the situation. That's not likely. It's more likely that Russian forces will find themselves bogged down, and bloodied. No one will benefit from this short-sighted course.
102
Only one overreaching here are US supported islamist rebels about to be wiped off the face of this planet... Afghanistan will look like a picnic to US supported islamofascists
1
What do you think Turkey or NATO are going to do about it?
NOTHING, that's what.
Back in the early 90's, Russia said the same thing about NATO bombing Serbia, and then Russia did not fire on NATO because it would trigger a war. This time Turkey can make lines in the sand, scold Russia, all that happy pie in the sky. At the end they would never shoot down a Russian plane, ever.
NOTHING, that's what.
Back in the early 90's, Russia said the same thing about NATO bombing Serbia, and then Russia did not fire on NATO because it would trigger a war. This time Turkey can make lines in the sand, scold Russia, all that happy pie in the sky. At the end they would never shoot down a Russian plane, ever.
The Russians did not find themselves bogged down and bloodied in the Crimea and Eastern Ukraine. Among the main beneficiaries of the Russian air and ground intervention will be the remaining Christians of the Middle East. In that Mr. Putin has the support of the Orthodox Church. The weak and vain Mr. Obama is not so stupid as to interfere with this, even with the cries of the neocons and liberal hawks and their voices in the media.
Help me out here. How can non- government sanctioned Russian troops currently in Ukraine be moved to Syria? They would need to be sanctioned if the Russian government controls them. Or, are we to believe, they are moving to Syria on their own volition? Is this finally an admission by the Russian government that they do control troops in Ukraine?
38
What was said was "volunteer". Like the whole US forces, entirely constituted of "volunteers".
Whjat is never said is when the last "volunteering" act happened. At enlisting? Mission choice? Being born ?
Whjat is never said is when the last "volunteering" act happened. At enlisting? Mission choice? Being born ?
1
Turkey has been uncooperative with the US throughout the fight against ISIS. Their only concern is keeping the Kurds down. We should not risk military involvement with Russia on their behalf. NATO has outlived the Cold War and the US is foolish to maintain this alliance. Let Putin enter his people in an unending war, but not with the US involvement.
110
Now is probably not the best time to ignore our NATO commitments. That's a for-better-or-worse kind of agreement designed specifically with the Russians in mind. To turn our back on Turkey would embolden Putin beyond his wildest dreams.
Russia will get bogged down, for sure, and Putin may actually find motivation to test that NATO resolve simply in order to get NATO troops on the ground in Syria to cover a Russian retreat. These are "interesting times," and not in a good way.
Russia will get bogged down, for sure, and Putin may actually find motivation to test that NATO resolve simply in order to get NATO troops on the ground in Syria to cover a Russian retreat. These are "interesting times," and not in a good way.
Turkey is an Islamist state which has supported ISIS and no longer belongs in NATO.
Turkey has come around on ISIS, after realizing that it represented a threat, and is now cooperating.
The notion that the US is foolish to maintain NATO is foolish, and this and Russia's other recent escapades tells us why.
The notion that the US is foolish to maintain NATO is foolish, and this and Russia's other recent escapades tells us why.
A Russian mercenary who fought in the Donbass named Bondo Dorovskikh says he has already sent 12 Russian volunteer fighters to Syria.
http://www.interpretermag.com/putin-in-syria-russian-fighter-enters-turk...
http://www.interpretermag.com/putin-in-syria-russian-fighter-enters-turk...
2
Notice that Russia conceded an error, but apparently this wasnt enough. Notice how the article author and presumably official Washington to twist a small error into a demand that Russia stand down in Syria":
"A spokesman for the Russian Embassy in Turkey told the Russian news service Interfax on Monday that the Russian Ministry of Defense had conceded a mistaken crossing into Turkish airspace and provided an explanation to the Turkish military attaché in Moscow.
But Russia, which began its air campaign in Syria last Monday, showed no sign that it was backing down. In fact, Adm. Vladimir Komoyedov, the head of the armed forces committee in Russia’s Parliament, told news services that pro-Russian veterans of the conflict in eastern Ukraine side will most “likely” start showing up as a volunteer battalion in Syria."
"A spokesman for the Russian Embassy in Turkey told the Russian news service Interfax on Monday that the Russian Ministry of Defense had conceded a mistaken crossing into Turkish airspace and provided an explanation to the Turkish military attaché in Moscow.
But Russia, which began its air campaign in Syria last Monday, showed no sign that it was backing down. In fact, Adm. Vladimir Komoyedov, the head of the armed forces committee in Russia’s Parliament, told news services that pro-Russian veterans of the conflict in eastern Ukraine side will most “likely” start showing up as a volunteer battalion in Syria."
27
Was NATO prepared to start WWIII over a minor airspace violation? If not, then NATO should not trivially issue public warnings.
I grow tired of the (yes) NATO/US antagonism towards Russia. The West should respect Russia's border nations as a sphere of influence for Russia just as Latin America is respected as within the US sphere.
And the US should not have tried to strip Ukraine or Syria from Russia.
I grow tired of the (yes) NATO/US antagonism towards Russia. The West should respect Russia's border nations as a sphere of influence for Russia just as Latin America is respected as within the US sphere.
And the US should not have tried to strip Ukraine or Syria from Russia.
76
And, did US get approval from UN or Syria to use their airspace?
19
The U.S, did not strip Ukraine from Russia.
Ukraine is a sovereign nation with the same right to self-determination as any nation.
Any modern U.S. invasion of Mexico would be met with justifiable dismay by the Nations of the world.
Ukraine is a sovereign nation with the same right to self-determination as any nation.
Any modern U.S. invasion of Mexico would be met with justifiable dismay by the Nations of the world.
2
What a relief to know that the same apologists during the Cold War who could always explain away Soviet behavior as wrong-doing by the West have now transferred that same agenda to Russia.
I too grow tired - tired of "Zaire with permafrost and nuclear weapons" being unable to adjust its ambitions to the periphery of its resources.
No one is attempting "to strip" nations "from" Russia other than their own people. If anything, the West has shown benign neglect if not outright hostility to the natural aspirations of peoples to find stability and prosperity - starting with George H.W. Bush infamous "Chicken Kiev" speech during the Gorbachev era (we want stability so keep under Russia's thumb for us, thanks) to the current EU miss-mash during the Putin era (hey, maybe you could be in the EU but not that we're going to do anything to help you but don't complain to us about Russia aggression because we're not getting involved but we're still open to the membership possibilities like maybe).
NATO isn't going to start "WWIII" as Russia is unable to project sufficient force into the Middle East relative to the U.S. - a region swarming with American ground and air bases. A few bomb craters in Syria runways and Russian airplanes are grounded.
That said, if Russia wants to send troops to Syria for Afghanistan II, so be it. You'd have thought W's Iraq adventures, by a US far more capable of force projection, would have taught even a strategic dunce like Putin more.
I too grow tired - tired of "Zaire with permafrost and nuclear weapons" being unable to adjust its ambitions to the periphery of its resources.
No one is attempting "to strip" nations "from" Russia other than their own people. If anything, the West has shown benign neglect if not outright hostility to the natural aspirations of peoples to find stability and prosperity - starting with George H.W. Bush infamous "Chicken Kiev" speech during the Gorbachev era (we want stability so keep under Russia's thumb for us, thanks) to the current EU miss-mash during the Putin era (hey, maybe you could be in the EU but not that we're going to do anything to help you but don't complain to us about Russia aggression because we're not getting involved but we're still open to the membership possibilities like maybe).
NATO isn't going to start "WWIII" as Russia is unable to project sufficient force into the Middle East relative to the U.S. - a region swarming with American ground and air bases. A few bomb craters in Syria runways and Russian airplanes are grounded.
That said, if Russia wants to send troops to Syria for Afghanistan II, so be it. You'd have thought W's Iraq adventures, by a US far more capable of force projection, would have taught even a strategic dunce like Putin more.
6
NATO are the biggest violators of airspace and national sovereignty in the world. They should look in the mirror and see the REAL guilty party in the Syrian tragedy.
62
Not for the first time do I suspect that Kremlin hacks are contributing to these threads again, in the hope that a few "useful fools" will fall for their patently absurd arguments.
1