The real story here is the lack of affordable child care. Two of my grandchildren are Manhattan kids and until they were both in school it was my pleasure to fly in and help out from time to time. Fortunately I was able to find sublets for these visits, but there is no way I can live in NYC year around on a teacher's pension. My children are not senior partners in any big company (actor and nonprofit executive) so they can't afford to provide an apartment for me. This article is hardly about a middle class immigration pattern.
This is not hard to figure out. It's definitely for the well to do parents. $3000 a month for the grandmother's studio is probably less than what other reliable child care would cost. Guessing the parents subsidize grandma. Grandma gets to live in NY (I wish I could ) and spend time with grand kids vs. sitting in flyover country (nothing wrong with it but not much excitement) and playing bridge, etc... When kids are older grandma can go back home or elsewhere. Win win for all involved. But probably not a big trend.
I would like to know how these people circumvented the "80x your rent" income requirement in order to rent an apartment. I am 63, an empty nester and would love to move back home. As far as I know, though, I will need to win the lottery to do it.
1
I moved from Kentucky to North Carolina to be close to both of my children, but baby-sitting is NOT why I came here. As for the children: I raised mine, and they can raise theirs. I'm 66, still work full-time from home, and I have my own life.
2
First of all: I do not expect this comment to be published because I do not pay the ridiculous price for unlimited access to the NY Times. I get most of my news from other places (free) anyway.
As far as this article goes: As others have mentioned, Many of the NY Times articles are cherry picked to appeal to high income individuals who can afford the high prices of New York City.
How about articles that describe ways a low or middle income family can survive in New York. For instance: Put up links to available low income housing construction or present low income housing buildings that have open applications for occupancy.
As far as this article goes: As others have mentioned, Many of the NY Times articles are cherry picked to appeal to high income individuals who can afford the high prices of New York City.
How about articles that describe ways a low or middle income family can survive in New York. For instance: Put up links to available low income housing construction or present low income housing buildings that have open applications for occupancy.
1
I find this article disturbing. Grown affluent adults "summoning" their parents to work 12 hour days? Seems like the height of narcissism to me.
4
What you going to do, hang out in Florida with nothing to do but have dinner at 4:30 and go to malls?
It's always fun reading NY Times fantasy stories of how stimulating and rewarding living in NYC is if you can afford to write $3,000 a month rent checks for a tiny apartment and enjoy spending big bucks going to overpriced restaurants and shows on a regular basis. Being a senior myself, and living mortgage free in a beautiful house with a swimming pool, leaving a bankrupt NYC for California in 1976 was a move I have never regretted. I can fly in and visit whenever I wish, see a few shows, and take a limo back to JFK knowing I'm not draining 36K a year from savings to pay for a walk-up apartment so I can believe my life is just so special because I live in NYC.
3
It's not just a New York trend. My aunt and uncle, who are in their late seventies, moved from the Philadelphia suburbs (Huntingdon Valley), where they had a 4-bedroom home with backyard, to Philadelphia proper a few years ago, and now live in a one-bedroom apartment building downtown, within walking distance of movie theaters, Trader Joe's, restaurants, cafe and even a nonprofit theater company. They couldn't be happier. They feel that the hustle and bustle and the energy of the city keep them feeling young. And yes, the grandchildren live there. But the reason they did it is because in their old age they wanted things to do to keep them busy and didn't want to be isolated. They also think that walking is important and good for their health, and Philly is great for walking. Finally, my aunt knows that if something happens to my uncle, who is not in good health, she has plenty of neighbors in the building who will help her, along with the doorman. In the suburbs she would be completely alone.
8
I think living in a "real" city (San Diego does not count) would be fantastic. Unfortunately that's not where my grandchild lives Then, too, after years in SoCal, there's the winters to consider.
If your aunt & uncle enjoy this, and have physical health good enough to WALK (in winter? in a blizzard?) to theater and restaurants, then god bless them.
But you indicate your uncle is NOT in good health. So how long can this urban lifestyle go on? There is a divide between the "young old" -- fit healthy folks who are maybe 60 to 75 -- and the "ailing old", who are over 80 and have mobility issues.
I shudder to think of an elderly couple, leaving their home to to go out for dinner & a show, in the winter -- it is dark at 5PM! -- and on the way home at 11PM, one of them slips and falls on the sidewalk because it is icy. Or falls getting off steep bus stairs. The result could be a broken hip and a swift move to a nursing home.
Also: you have assumed people in the suburbs are "completely alone" -- do you seriously think they would have no neighbors THERE? friends? relatives? A doorman is not a home health aide, and can only do so much.
But you indicate your uncle is NOT in good health. So how long can this urban lifestyle go on? There is a divide between the "young old" -- fit healthy folks who are maybe 60 to 75 -- and the "ailing old", who are over 80 and have mobility issues.
I shudder to think of an elderly couple, leaving their home to to go out for dinner & a show, in the winter -- it is dark at 5PM! -- and on the way home at 11PM, one of them slips and falls on the sidewalk because it is icy. Or falls getting off steep bus stairs. The result could be a broken hip and a swift move to a nursing home.
Also: you have assumed people in the suburbs are "completely alone" -- do you seriously think they would have no neighbors THERE? friends? relatives? A doorman is not a home health aide, and can only do so much.
2
How interesting to see us finding notable something that used to be normal: the integration of generations in mutual support, with Grandma and Grandpa conveniently available for the kids, handy for the parents. Shades of Mayberry indeed.
Now for the next part: will the family be as handy and convenient when Grandma and Grandpa need their support?
Now for the next part: will the family be as handy and convenient when Grandma and Grandpa need their support?
4
Totally. While I could never afford to live in the city, I can fly in from Cleveland often, about six times a year, stay with the kids in Brooklyn and watch my granddaughters grow up. Love, love, love New York. As to the grumpy comment writers, really? It is not a sin to have a little cash in your 70's and spend it creating a bridge to the future. I never knew my grandparents and treasure every visit with my two little angels, then I come back inspired to my studio in Cleveland and paint. There are worse things to do with your required minimum distributions.
5
Of course it is not a sin to spend money on your grandkids. But we aren't talking about the latest Barbie doll or toy truck -- we are talking about $3000 a month and giving up your HOME, plus the hard labor of caring for toddlers without pay at age 75.
It's wonderful you can visit your grandchildren that often. I envy you. Those of us who are not wealthy, or still must work, can't visit anyone 6 times a year. And does visiting NYC mean "staying in your adult children's home, a one bedroom apartment and sleeping on the sofa"? or does it mean "a luxury hotel"? There is a big difference.
It's wonderful you can visit your grandchildren that often. I envy you. Those of us who are not wealthy, or still must work, can't visit anyone 6 times a year. And does visiting NYC mean "staying in your adult children's home, a one bedroom apartment and sleeping on the sofa"? or does it mean "a luxury hotel"? There is a big difference.
3
Middle ground is available just north of Manhattan. I sold a place in Queens in order to find affordable housing in downtown New Rochelle, NY. My walk to the train takes 6-10 minutes and the ride into midtown adds another 30 minutes. Because I'm in the downtown area, I can walk to grocery stores, the movies, the library, great restaurants and the beach.
I feel lucky to have taken this path because I have it all without having to pay thousands each month in rent. Yes, I could own a car, but I have discovered that it isn't necessary thanks to cabs, rentals and on occasion carpooling with a neighbor.
I feel lucky to have taken this path because I have it all without having to pay thousands each month in rent. Yes, I could own a car, but I have discovered that it isn't necessary thanks to cabs, rentals and on occasion carpooling with a neighbor.
1
University towns such as Madison have seen a reversal of fortunes, too, and resources such as the Participatory Learning And Teaching Organization help feed the flow to towns with gowns. They may even be what sociologists call the original NORCs--naturally occurring retirement communities.
This article essentially starts with a grandparent walking their child in a stroller in the PARK SLOPE section of Brooklyn! Shocking, absolutely shocking! Who'd a thunk that a Times writer would give that area such notoriety?! Next thing we'll see is Park Slope continually mentioned in their Real Estate section! And then we go to Bushwick! Thank G-d I didn't pull a Rip Van Winkle and fall asleep forty years ago! I'd wakeup and think I was either dreaming or in the middle of a nightmare! Or am I?! Watch out Sheepshead Bay you might be next! Oh wait, there's no toxic dump like the Gowanus Canal nearby! Shush, or as they are saying more and more in southern Brooklyn, Das vadanya everybody!!!
2
Funny, isn't it, how they did not picture Inwood or East New York.
1
Not sure that I live in the same country.
My son and his wife moved in with me last year when she became pregnant about the same time that the multi-national company he was working for as w welder dropped employee-provided family health insurance as a benefit. I retired last spring after 30 plus years as a public school educator. I was hoping to be able to move to the city to be closer to them, but instead they have moved back to the town of 800 in which they grew up, in the middle of Nebraska. So now there are four us living in a very small, very old 2-bedroom house. They both make barely over $10 an hour; he is a welder, she is a pre-school teacher. Her job provides health insurance and discounted childcare, though it is 45 mile commute. I am not physically-able enough to babysit, once my grandchild became mobile. They are working on buying an old house a couple of blocks away for 50K. My 45K home is paid-for, after 20 years of living in it.
Culture?? I guess my exposure to culture is reading the New York Times. This particular article was more like fantasy.
My son and his wife moved in with me last year when she became pregnant about the same time that the multi-national company he was working for as w welder dropped employee-provided family health insurance as a benefit. I retired last spring after 30 plus years as a public school educator. I was hoping to be able to move to the city to be closer to them, but instead they have moved back to the town of 800 in which they grew up, in the middle of Nebraska. So now there are four us living in a very small, very old 2-bedroom house. They both make barely over $10 an hour; he is a welder, she is a pre-school teacher. Her job provides health insurance and discounted childcare, though it is 45 mile commute. I am not physically-able enough to babysit, once my grandchild became mobile. They are working on buying an old house a couple of blocks away for 50K. My 45K home is paid-for, after 20 years of living in it.
Culture?? I guess my exposure to culture is reading the New York Times. This particular article was more like fantasy.
7
Jackie: I genuinely appreciate you mentioning this. I didn't even think of it myself, and I am highly critical of this piece. It sets up the notion that there is a large migration of elderly retirees returning to the most expensive posh parts of New York City, in order to raise their grandchildren (presumably whilst mom and dad work their high paid careers). I rather doubt it is more than an isolated phenomena, due to the very high costs of living there.
But you describe what I think is the REAL TREND, which they have blithely ignored. It is when ADULT children move in with a retired parent, often in a cramped small house, apartment or even trailer. The retiree can barely manage on a small SS check, and here comes their married kid, plus grandkids -- expecting to piggy back on their income and home. And in a down economy.
How sad that this was driven by the loss of health insurance!
On top of that, your statement that "you are not physically able to babysit" is probably more typically the case, than is that of a senior so hearty she can hoof it up 3 flights of stairs each day to her walk-up $3000 studio.
At least Nebraska is affordable. But young families who cannot make a go it alone are a bigger national story than baby-sitting grandmas.
But you describe what I think is the REAL TREND, which they have blithely ignored. It is when ADULT children move in with a retired parent, often in a cramped small house, apartment or even trailer. The retiree can barely manage on a small SS check, and here comes their married kid, plus grandkids -- expecting to piggy back on their income and home. And in a down economy.
How sad that this was driven by the loss of health insurance!
On top of that, your statement that "you are not physically able to babysit" is probably more typically the case, than is that of a senior so hearty she can hoof it up 3 flights of stairs each day to her walk-up $3000 studio.
At least Nebraska is affordable. But young families who cannot make a go it alone are a bigger national story than baby-sitting grandmas.
2
This trashy, patronizing and sentimental story is about exploitation, pure and simple. 12 hour days, third floor walkups, high rents? What these grandparents need, on their way to getting a life, is a union.
11
I am a parent and we keep all four grandparents involved in our child's life through visits. We have been lucky to have extended visits when needed to attend out-of-town work commitments such as conferences. I believe it is unfair to expect relocation and full-time care from grandparents; for other families, it seems to be a viable option. However, I would hate to rip my parents from their social structure, comfortable suburban home, and established health care setup to tend to their grandchild. The United States has a long way to go before multigenerational families are the norm; our transportation system and city structure is not set up that way. In addition, some of the doted-upon grandchildren I have seen have trouble adjusting to other caregivers, and the parents become exceedingly picky about child care providers, sometimes compromising their work options to continue to provide family-only care.
Well, in the end, each family has to find their own solution.
Well, in the end, each family has to find their own solution.
2
"Well, in the end, each family has to find their own solution" writes Sushirrito. That's really the key, isn't it, because each family has its own relationships, history, obligations, stresses, hopes, dreams. In our case, we longed to be grandparents but when none of our children expressed any interest in becoming parents, we assumed it was not to be. (We'd never have asked, much less pressured them.) What a thrill 3 years ago when a granddaughter entered our lives. While the downside is that we are older than optimal (late 60s, early 70s), the upside is we're retired, so were able to move. The most loving relationship I have had in my life was with my grandmother, so it's a relationship I understand. I am sorry my granddaughter's other grands cannot see her weekly, as we do, but they don't seem to mind. They live in another state, plus they have other grands.
You make a good point about whether the children would have trouble adjusting to any other caregivers. Our granddaughter has never had any other babysitters but us, and usually we don't even have her alone, but get together with her and her parents. But, fortunately, she has been in daycare, now preschool, so it should not be too hard for her to adjust to another babysitter if necessary. She does seem to like a lot of people. BTW, I lived in San Fran from 2008 to 2011 - the only time I've lived in a city. I loved it. If my granddaughter were there rather than San Diego, I'd be so happy, though broke.
You make a good point about whether the children would have trouble adjusting to any other caregivers. Our granddaughter has never had any other babysitters but us, and usually we don't even have her alone, but get together with her and her parents. But, fortunately, she has been in daycare, now preschool, so it should not be too hard for her to adjust to another babysitter if necessary. She does seem to like a lot of people. BTW, I lived in San Fran from 2008 to 2011 - the only time I've lived in a city. I loved it. If my granddaughter were there rather than San Diego, I'd be so happy, though broke.
When people had a large, multi-generational family homes, they ALSO HAD large Victorian houses with multiple bedrooms, or several extra buildings -- or maybe lived next door -- they didn't try to squash those generations into tiny NYC apartments, nor force 75 year old grandmas to walk up 3 flights of stairs with arthritic knees.
1
The gulf is wide indeed between the willing-to-do-everythings and the willing-to-do nothings.
The folks described in this article are completely foreign to me. In my world, it takes a village, one composed of babysitters, a workplace with a lenient work-life policy, after school programs, a strong parent network, countless trips to the ATM, and budgeting skills. It takes a village, as regretful as it may be, that is not populated by entitled, wealthy Caucasian grandparents who think a trip to NYC to visit their grandchildren is shorthand for a trip to The Met with a latte chaser.
I have so much respect for the grandparents I see from different ethnic groups and cultures, and of both sexes (my favorites are the Sunset Park Chinese grandfathers, but there are plenty of African American, Indian, and Latino elders) on the subway, presumably shuttling kids safely to and from the places they need to go so their parents can be the breadwinners they are supposed to be. Let's face it, two paychecks in many households is critical to income stability these days, and isn’t it logical that, health permitting, we all pitch in a bit?
My husband and I weren’t born here. But we will raise our kids in NYC, and when the time comes, and if our health cooperates, we will help with our grandchildren. Our children will benefit from reduced costs and less stress. Our grandchildren will benefit from our time, attention, and participation, and hopefully they will carry on the tradition.
The folks described in this article are completely foreign to me. In my world, it takes a village, one composed of babysitters, a workplace with a lenient work-life policy, after school programs, a strong parent network, countless trips to the ATM, and budgeting skills. It takes a village, as regretful as it may be, that is not populated by entitled, wealthy Caucasian grandparents who think a trip to NYC to visit their grandchildren is shorthand for a trip to The Met with a latte chaser.
I have so much respect for the grandparents I see from different ethnic groups and cultures, and of both sexes (my favorites are the Sunset Park Chinese grandfathers, but there are plenty of African American, Indian, and Latino elders) on the subway, presumably shuttling kids safely to and from the places they need to go so their parents can be the breadwinners they are supposed to be. Let's face it, two paychecks in many households is critical to income stability these days, and isn’t it logical that, health permitting, we all pitch in a bit?
My husband and I weren’t born here. But we will raise our kids in NYC, and when the time comes, and if our health cooperates, we will help with our grandchildren. Our children will benefit from reduced costs and less stress. Our grandchildren will benefit from our time, attention, and participation, and hopefully they will carry on the tradition.
What too many naive -though well meaning-adult children & their ever-growing older parents who opt to live in NYC do not understand, is that when the time comes for these elders-at whatever age walking...seeing..."fitness" begin to diminish- unless they are taken in to their children's homes...the option of Assisted Living -or Independent Living-or Senior Residences - are all under some impotent oversight by the NYS Dept of Health...Folks need to think about that before the time comes to transition their loved ones.
In the case of the disgusting Prospect Park Residence eviction ( 2014)...the owner is a real estate developer...check out some of the other Assisted Living Residences & you'll find there is a consistent connection (if under wraps for the most part!)...especially here in Brooklyn i.e. Nursing Homes...ALFs...Property Developers...all for one one for all.
While that would be bad enough, not only do we have a failed Dept of Health whose clients are NOT those who are the vulnerable elders...but rather the so-called operator who gets a pass for anything they do. The DOH is oblivious...the legislators in Albany need to own it...and so far they have evaded dealing with this growing urgency for safe places for the elderly.
Don't bother looking at the DOH Website...it is as archaic & inadequate as one might find in a third world country. I'm compelled to share this warning because too many State Assemblypersons are allowing these dire circumstances to be perpetuated.
In the case of the disgusting Prospect Park Residence eviction ( 2014)...the owner is a real estate developer...check out some of the other Assisted Living Residences & you'll find there is a consistent connection (if under wraps for the most part!)...especially here in Brooklyn i.e. Nursing Homes...ALFs...Property Developers...all for one one for all.
While that would be bad enough, not only do we have a failed Dept of Health whose clients are NOT those who are the vulnerable elders...but rather the so-called operator who gets a pass for anything they do. The DOH is oblivious...the legislators in Albany need to own it...and so far they have evaded dealing with this growing urgency for safe places for the elderly.
Don't bother looking at the DOH Website...it is as archaic & inadequate as one might find in a third world country. I'm compelled to share this warning because too many State Assemblypersons are allowing these dire circumstances to be perpetuated.
7
That's a sad aspect of this. When ordinary studio apartments cost $3000 a month, what do Assisted Living residences cost? They are typically about 3 times the cost of a regular (small) apartment, so it is reasonable to guess they are $9000-$10,000 in the city -- far beyond the ability of anyone non-rich to live there.
On top of that, they are not as "lucrative" to operators as are luxury apartments, so it seems many senior residences are being torn down to make way for expensive new construction. The seniors are therefore displaced. There goes their "access" to all those restaurants, theatres. 24-hour bagel places and so on.
And if we mean that the grateful adult children, when the time comes, take in mom (or dad) in old age and care for them -- well, that is nearly impossible to do if your own apartment is a tiny one-bedroom. Are you going to make your 85 year old mother sleep on a foldout sofa?
On top of that, they are not as "lucrative" to operators as are luxury apartments, so it seems many senior residences are being torn down to make way for expensive new construction. The seniors are therefore displaced. There goes their "access" to all those restaurants, theatres. 24-hour bagel places and so on.
And if we mean that the grateful adult children, when the time comes, take in mom (or dad) in old age and care for them -- well, that is nearly impossible to do if your own apartment is a tiny one-bedroom. Are you going to make your 85 year old mother sleep on a foldout sofa?
1
This is great for people who enjoy big city life, but not so much for those of us who aren't that comfortable with the noise and the crowds. Most smaller cities have many of the amenities that larger cities have, as well as a significantly lower cost of living.
That said, more power to these grandparents! My children had wonderful teachers and other paid caregivers, but, as professional as those were, no one cares about a child more than a loving parent or grandparent. And being at the office has to be easier, knowing that grandma or grandpa is in charge of the children.
That said, more power to these grandparents! My children had wonderful teachers and other paid caregivers, but, as professional as those were, no one cares about a child more than a loving parent or grandparent. And being at the office has to be easier, knowing that grandma or grandpa is in charge of the children.
4
I personally think it's beautiful to see families stick together regardless of their circumstances. There are so many families in this world who aren't able to stick together because of outside circumstances and any family that's able to stick together to carry on their love for each other is a blessing. I give blessings to these families and happy for them to be able to share life together as all family members should.
1
Freud was right.
He said family and work are the most important factors in our lives.
Climate, culture etc. are secondary.
He said family and work are the most important factors in our lives.
Climate, culture etc. are secondary.
i don't want to help raise my grandkids, if i ever have them. and this is only for the most affluent people who can afford a good lifestyle here. i'm relatively affluent but as soon as my last kid leaves for college, i'm selling my large home in a posh suburb. my school district is superb and my taxes exceed $50k, and that's still a relative bargain with the respect to posh private school, especially since i have 3 kids. i'd love see my grandkids and a have a good relationship with them, but i have no intention of helping to raise them, and definitely not in ny. ny has many wonderful things to offer, but i'll have happy to visit them a couple of times a year.
7
Yes money is a factor (still trying to wrap my brain around the idea of "property tax of $50K a year -- more than the US median family income of $48,500!) -- but so is very good health in old age.
Let's put the money and rent aspect off to the side. How many 75 year olds can handle a walk up, third floor apartment? Can stuff the belongings of a lifetime into a tiny studio meant for a 25 year old? Can walk up & down countless flights of stairs daily -- with a toddler OR TWO -- with strollers, diaper bags, etc.?
How many can carry a 36 lb toddler, and also a stroller, and get themselves, child and stroller onto a bus? or subway? in a blizzard in February?
Frankly I am astonished if this is true. There is more to this story somehow, and we are hearing just the highlights.
Let's put the money and rent aspect off to the side. How many 75 year olds can handle a walk up, third floor apartment? Can stuff the belongings of a lifetime into a tiny studio meant for a 25 year old? Can walk up & down countless flights of stairs daily -- with a toddler OR TWO -- with strollers, diaper bags, etc.?
How many can carry a 36 lb toddler, and also a stroller, and get themselves, child and stroller onto a bus? or subway? in a blizzard in February?
Frankly I am astonished if this is true. There is more to this story somehow, and we are hearing just the highlights.
11
I hope the comments moderator is willing to print this because, Concerned Citizen, I want to tell you how much I appreciate your comments, not only here but in response to so many NYT articles (we seem to read the same material). You do not pull punches. I frequently (not always) agree with you but, even when I do not, I find you add much to the comments conversation. Thanks.
3
Michelle Obama's mother moved from Chicago to Washington DC to help the first couple with their daughters. Seems surprising no one has mentioned this particular example of this "trend."
14
Yes, Michelle Obama's mother moved...into the White House, with an enormous staff, chef-prepared meals, etc, at no cost to her. Wonderful that she is close to her family but no more indicative of a "trend" that the wealthy privileged dual career couples in this article.
5
Wonderful! I would pick up and move to NYC in a heartbeat! I love it. I live in Chicago--not quite. However one little caveat--none of my 3 grown kids (2 in their 40's) jave any kids! When and if they do, I will love being a full time granny nanny. I am a writer and a musician so being a full on grandmother would work beautifully.
3
I'd do this in a heartbeat - I'd love to get out of these sleepy suburbs. Only problem is, don't have any grandkids yet.
3
Horrifying. Not the real estate - I'm used to that - but the notion that you are supposed to raise your grandchildren. I never wanted to be a mother, and so I didn't have children, but always wanted to be a grandparent. (I understood that I could not be a grandmother without being a mother in the interim, but I was wistful about it.) My parents loved me, but my maternal grandparents adored me.I spent almost every weekend with them (of course, being a kid I did not fully appreciate what a blessing this was) and we went places, or we stayed in the house and talked. Then on Sunday night I went home. My grandparents had a wonderful experience spending the weekend with me, and that is what I wanted for myself.
Full time, and doing most of the cooking for at least three other people? And the childcare burden? When you have done it once before and are now enjoying the fruits of your labor, either in a senior position at work or from your retirement income? Horrifying!
Full time, and doing most of the cooking for at least three other people? And the childcare burden? When you have done it once before and are now enjoying the fruits of your labor, either in a senior position at work or from your retirement income? Horrifying!
13
I don't think the idea is to "raise" your grandchildren - rather its to spend your retirement living in a thriving & vibrant city instead of a sleepy suburb or retirement village. The bonus for both sides is that your grandchildren are with you instead of in daycare with strangers. Yes, it would be a "job" but your weekends and evenings would be yours to spend as you wished (that would be my stipulation) and in most examples within this story the grandparents rent was covered or subsidized by their children in exchange for their help. I didn't use my parents as "babysitters" but because I had triplets they were always alongside me helping wherever they could. One of the most wonderful benefits of their help was the close and loving bond they developed with all 4 of my children and the comfort and security they provided. My children have wonderful memories of this time with my parents and even though they're both now gone, their influence and nurturing will last forever.
6
Where do you get "supposed" to raise their grandkids? In every instance cited in the article, the grandparents did this willingly and eagerly of their own free will.
1
Triplets? Well God bless - it would take more even than grandparents to help out, no? Like "a village" perhaps. We have only 1 three-year-old and she's a bundle of energy. While I wish we could see her more than once or twice a week, I confess we are tired after a few hours. Of course we are older grands (60s and 70s), not 40s or 50s - more's the pity.
For those few senior one-percenters who can afford the cost of living and who actually miss all the challenges of living in NYC, I say go for it! This is one ex-New Yorker who enjoys the pleasures of country life...and guess what, there are actually great restaurants and quality cultural offerings outside the confines of NYC.
18
I would love to see an article on grandparents who willingly and lovingly relocate to be near grandchildren EVEN THOUGH this means moving to a place where the grandparents would not otherwise want to live. In our case, our sole grandchild (only 3 years old and adorable) lives in San Diego, which is one of the most expensive cities in the country (not as bad as NYC or San Fran. of course, but still expensive). Worse, it doesn't have the wonderful city amenities of "real" (think urbanly dense) cities. We sold a house in an inland California city that was paid off, and bought a house costing 2X as much in San Diego, so we are back to paying a mortgage. We are thrilled with grandparenthood and our daughter and son-in-law are delighted with our presence. (We do not do daily childcare, but get together weekly or so.) But we are living in a car-dependent city, even as driving gets harder. I am not complaining because this was a choice and it has its pleasures, but it would be nice to hear from others in a similar situation, dealing with the trade-off involved.
11
Your daughter, son-in-law, and grandchild are very lucky. I am a parent and our child also is the sole grandchild (on both sides). You have given up a lot to provide your regular presence; I am certain your family and your grandchild are benefiting, and I hope they take the time to acknowledge what you have given up. I posted a comment about this and scrolled down and saw your post. I wish you well, and I hope you continue to stay active and healthy in San Diego - I agree that it is a car-dependent city!
Sushirrito, how very kind of you. Thank you.
love walking my dogs on the golf course
11
Immigrants families across New York City, of all income levels, have prioritized having grandparents as a part of their kids' lives (often out of childcare necessity but largely out of the importance of family ties). I was a beneficiary of that growing up in Queens and now my own kids are being raised close to their grandparents also in Queens (they watch them after school). It keeps the grandparents young and active and it allows the kids to build strong relationships with people other than parents and gain different perspectives. One thing I noticed when I lived in Brownstone Bklyn for a few years is how few people over the age of 60 are around the neighborhood and probably even less so in more gentrifying areas. I always thought it was a little odd that kids hardly see senior citizens around. A few more grandparents around the playground is a good thing for the fabric of the community.
23
Whoa. An article about middle class people living in a million dollar house in a neighborhood built for civil servants and service workers that doesn't mention how on Earth these folks manage to pay for it all. Fascinating!
20
We live in a suburb of a small city and there are quite a few relocated-grandparents here. The difference, however, is that the cost of living here is sane.
14
Cost of living is an important factor. But it is secondary to the condition of the elderly parents. My parents are approaching 70. When my sister-in-law asked my mom if dad could pick up her 4-year-old after school, mom said no. "If he fell on the icy road, it would be surely more trouble for you all." I think my mom is wise. My parents love us, and at this stage in their life they have updated their way of loving their children by making sure they are self-sufficient not only for now but also for a long time to come.
13
I lived in NYC from 22 to 30.
I'd like to retire to Manhattan - as long as I wasn't in a fourth floor walk up!
I'd like to retire to Manhattan - as long as I wasn't in a fourth floor walk up!
13
So many thought on this article but will touch on 2 points -
In my opinion, NYC is NOT a great place to reside if you are no longer able to drive. Lack of mobility, diminished vision, slow or poor reaction time - these are the very same issues that would make navigating the city's public transportation difficult if not impossible. When I was pregnant many years ago, maneuvering through the subways, especially those darn stairs were very challenging.
Also if grandparents are caring for a child full-time, when oh when would they be able to enjoy the great and cultured life that cities typically provide? Certainly taking grandchildren around interesting places is good, but really, when would they enjoy adult and child-free pursuits? When would this full time nanny see their physician, dentist, plays etc? Weekends? Well like all working folks, and make no mistake about this, these grandparents ARE working, weekends will be used to play catch-up on mundane household chores, errands, and the all important rest. Though the grandparents featured here are mobile and vibrant, reality and biology says we're no longer in our twenties.
The grandparents are the losers here. Good to be in the lives of your grandchildren but without the responsibility of full-time care.
In my opinion, NYC is NOT a great place to reside if you are no longer able to drive. Lack of mobility, diminished vision, slow or poor reaction time - these are the very same issues that would make navigating the city's public transportation difficult if not impossible. When I was pregnant many years ago, maneuvering through the subways, especially those darn stairs were very challenging.
Also if grandparents are caring for a child full-time, when oh when would they be able to enjoy the great and cultured life that cities typically provide? Certainly taking grandchildren around interesting places is good, but really, when would they enjoy adult and child-free pursuits? When would this full time nanny see their physician, dentist, plays etc? Weekends? Well like all working folks, and make no mistake about this, these grandparents ARE working, weekends will be used to play catch-up on mundane household chores, errands, and the all important rest. Though the grandparents featured here are mobile and vibrant, reality and biology says we're no longer in our twenties.
The grandparents are the losers here. Good to be in the lives of your grandchildren but without the responsibility of full-time care.
24
Tell that to my grandparents who lived in the suburbs and eventually couldn't drive. They relied on the not so great dollar senior ride. They'd have welcomed the subway and all of its challenges. Or they'd have taken a cab. Neither of which was available where they lived.
6
Emily, transportation is always somewhat of a challenge for declining seniors. City or suburb or country, you still need to get places.
I am not sure what a "dollar senior ride is", but transportation that picks you at your door, and takes you to doctors or shopping, and only for a dollar, would be incredible. Buses & cabs are far more than this.
Buses require a lot of walking, steep steps and they are not cheap anymore -- in my modest city, a bus tide is $2.50! What is it in NYC? Subways? LOTS of stairs. And both require walking out of doors in inclement weather, waiting in the cold & rain, often no seats so you must stand. If you cannot drive, you won't be able to do this either.
I am not sure what a "dollar senior ride is", but transportation that picks you at your door, and takes you to doctors or shopping, and only for a dollar, would be incredible. Buses & cabs are far more than this.
Buses require a lot of walking, steep steps and they are not cheap anymore -- in my modest city, a bus tide is $2.50! What is it in NYC? Subways? LOTS of stairs. And both require walking out of doors in inclement weather, waiting in the cold & rain, often no seats so you must stand. If you cannot drive, you won't be able to do this either.
1
Isn't the option to take subways and to be able to stick out your hand and take a cab or even call Uber -- not mentioned by yourself -- far superior than living in a community where you have completely isolated yourself once you can't drive?
Most subway stations these days have elevators, BTW, and more to come to meet the ADA requirements.
Most subway stations these days have elevators, BTW, and more to come to meet the ADA requirements.
Perhaps a bit taboo to mention, but most of the grandparents in the article are Caucasian, fly-over state transients.
Rent for a studio at $3,000 a month must be a tax deduction. Why not own a real apartment for $1,000,000 or more. I am almost sure affordability comes into play in these situation, although the article is packaged as an "upper-income dual couple" decision.
If either of these dual income types are laid off, unable to find work, I hope the grandparents are keeping their housing in suburbia.
Rent for a studio at $3,000 a month must be a tax deduction. Why not own a real apartment for $1,000,000 or more. I am almost sure affordability comes into play in these situation, although the article is packaged as an "upper-income dual couple" decision.
If either of these dual income types are laid off, unable to find work, I hope the grandparents are keeping their housing in suburbia.
8
Please tell me how a retired individual over 65 can "tax deduct" an apartment rental in the city. Unless it is some kind of business deduction, and I think the IRS would look askance at a retiree on SS claiming to be a day care provider for their own grandchildren, and that it was a paid job.
17
I'm surprised that so many commenters here consider this a "trend". In my culture, the Hispanic culture, grandparents taking care of their grandchildren is not a trend but a way of life. With all the horrible things that happen in today's world with nannies and babysitters, who better to help raise babies but their own grandparents? My culture is not the only one where family sticks together for life and it's actually really sad that so many people here don't see it that way.
69
Yes, but it would be considered evidence we are backsliding.
1
100% agree. I'm surprised by so many of the negative comments. In Indian culture it is absolutely the norm for grandparents to have a significant amount of responsibility taking care of grandkids. It's not trendy, it's our way of life (and thank goodness). Not necessarily full-time care, but it's certainly not unusual. Of course, no one should be forcing anyone to do this but if the grandparents want to, why the heck not? My children's lives are infinitely richer having their grandma live with us.
6
My grandma was 47 when I was born. Remember though, in cultures teenage and early-20s marriage and pregnancy are prevalent, things are different. Grandmas are likely to be younger and prevented by multiple births (and associated care work) to work or maintain a niche in the labor market past 50 or 55. The grandmas in this article are much older than that, and one is 75 (had a career) and exceptionally healthy.
Priceless memories; follow your heart.
5
Five years ago, at age 61, I moved back to NYC from Santa Monica, a gorgeous, oceanfront suburb of LA. Nevertheless, with way fewer people on the streets and in the parks and with much less spontaneous interaction than here in NYC, I felt lonely. My main way of meeting people was to join a club, such as my 200-member tennis club. But as much as I enjoyed that exercise and companionship, I also needed to dip my bucket in a wider ocean.
In addition, my driving skills were deteriorating, and I could foresee having to live in LA without a car, which is horrible.
No, NYC is not the same as when I grew up in the 60's and 70's sharing a walk up on the UES whose rent was about $90. Now, it is way more expensive, with fewer artists and sing for your supper types. But the city is still a whole lot livelier than suburbia. So moving back here was, for me, a life affirming choice.
What is sure, however, is that if my NYC family asked me to care for my nieces and nephews full time - and they have not as they are all grown up - I would say no. Moving back to the city as a senior is one thing; being a full time babysitter is a different thing entirely.
In addition, my driving skills were deteriorating, and I could foresee having to live in LA without a car, which is horrible.
No, NYC is not the same as when I grew up in the 60's and 70's sharing a walk up on the UES whose rent was about $90. Now, it is way more expensive, with fewer artists and sing for your supper types. But the city is still a whole lot livelier than suburbia. So moving back here was, for me, a life affirming choice.
What is sure, however, is that if my NYC family asked me to care for my nieces and nephews full time - and they have not as they are all grown up - I would say no. Moving back to the city as a senior is one thing; being a full time babysitter is a different thing entirely.
79
You are entitled to live anywhere you would like, assuming you can pay for it. Santa Monica is about as costly as Manhattan, so that probably wasn't a problem. But empty streets? nothing to do? You are not describing the Santa Monica that I know -- a bustling ocean front village/suburb within LA county. It's chock full of activities, and near all kinds of cultural stuff, entertainment, restaurants, BEACHES, etc. and has glorious weather -- the warmth of So Cal, plus breezes off the ocean.
Also: I am saddened your driving skills were deteriorating at only 61. I can't imagine this, and I'm just slightly younger. I hope it was nothing like macular degeneration. Most healthy adults without dementia can and do drive until at least their early 80s. I had an aunt who drove until age 91.
Also: I am saddened your driving skills were deteriorating at only 61. I can't imagine this, and I'm just slightly younger. I hope it was nothing like macular degeneration. Most healthy adults without dementia can and do drive until at least their early 80s. I had an aunt who drove until age 91.
16
No - most people should not be driving at that age. They are as bad as 18 year olds..
7
I would never think of Santa Monica as a boring suburb of Los Angeles, but I guess it is, certainly in terms of nightlife. The new Expo line from downtown to the beach will reduce the splendid isolation a bit. Take care on those icy sidewalks!
1
Upside: you now have free babysitters for your kids. Downside: your mother-in-law lives 3 blocks away from you.
11
This requires you REALLY REALLY get along -- your spouse too -- no issues or conflicts or old hurts -- and that the senior is extremely healthy and fit and energetic.
I'm half a generation younger than these ladies, and I could not keep up with a busy toddler anymore. Oh for a few days, even a week -- not for years on end, or daily. I think it would be a struggle for anyone over 55, let alone 75.
I'm half a generation younger than these ladies, and I could not keep up with a busy toddler anymore. Oh for a few days, even a week -- not for years on end, or daily. I think it would be a struggle for anyone over 55, let alone 75.
19
More folk with greater disposable incomes moving into the city and pushing up housing prices. The working class don't have a chance in this city, not to mention all the working class nannies who will be let go now that the grandparents are around to take care of the grandkids.
On the flip side, having grandparents in town is great for the business and institutions where they will be taking their grandkids. The business that the parents work for will also probably see productivity gains.
On the flip side, having grandparents in town is great for the business and institutions where they will be taking their grandkids. The business that the parents work for will also probably see productivity gains.
9
I understand their attraction to the city.The same thing is happening in Boston.
There is the problem of the cities becoming,more and more,for the rich while the inconveniences of being at a distance from amenities and public transit is,more and more,for the poor,lower income and middle income person or family.
There is the problem of the cities becoming,more and more,for the rich while the inconveniences of being at a distance from amenities and public transit is,more and more,for the poor,lower income and middle income person or family.
15
Boston is a lot more livable for the elderly than NYC.
6
New York, NY has a higher life expectancy than Boston, MA. So i'm quite sure the elderly "live" in NYC and Bostonian elderly aren't living a more "livable" lifestyle since they die earlier..
My dad died just before retirement. My mom, who had worked on Wall St for 40+ years, retired a year later, decided she needed an change, and moved to live with us in another state. The us being my husband, my 4 year old son and me. In preparation, we looked for and bought a house that could accommodate us all, one with an in-law suite attached, which included her own kitchen. She was there for my son when he came home from school, cooked dinner four nights a week, and did the ironing. This allowed me to work full time, and in addition I cooked three nights a week and did the laundry. It was a wonderful sharing of household, and child-rearing, duties. We were ever thankful to her. My husband and I had the opportunity to put our thankfulness into action when, years later, her health begin to fail. In her last two years when could not be left alone, nor perform simple activities of daily living such as dressing and bathing, we kept her home. I am forever grateful for what she did for us. Her years here gave my son an appreciation of elders. They had a very special relationship. I live with great memories, of both the wonderful years and also the tough ones. I live with no regrets.
88
Yes. After reading this I was wondering if the parents would give up their lives and incomes when the grandparents come to need them. Bravo to you!
20
That's a nice story, and it's wonderful you cared for your MIL in her old age.
However, we are only hearing the first part of the story here -- the senior caring for the grandkids. We have no idea if they will turnaround and care for this senior in a few years, when the grandkids are only elementary or middle school age (and still need some caretaking).
Also: It's grand you found a lovely home with a full in-law suite, including a private bath & kitchen, thus allowing your MIL to live on premises but with total privacy. But boy -- I've had several homes and lived in a few parts of the US and I have almost never seen anything like this. It would be very costly in many communities, as it would be a potential rent-producing suite. If you had to BUILD IT, it would cost almost as much as small private HOME. To tell people to count on having such an in-law suite, is like asking them to be sure they have a oil well in the backyard or a diamond mine. It's rare. You were very, very lucky.
However, we are only hearing the first part of the story here -- the senior caring for the grandkids. We have no idea if they will turnaround and care for this senior in a few years, when the grandkids are only elementary or middle school age (and still need some caretaking).
Also: It's grand you found a lovely home with a full in-law suite, including a private bath & kitchen, thus allowing your MIL to live on premises but with total privacy. But boy -- I've had several homes and lived in a few parts of the US and I have almost never seen anything like this. It would be very costly in many communities, as it would be a potential rent-producing suite. If you had to BUILD IT, it would cost almost as much as small private HOME. To tell people to count on having such an in-law suite, is like asking them to be sure they have a oil well in the backyard or a diamond mine. It's rare. You were very, very lucky.
9
I wish more adult children were as caring and decent as you. Sounds like a fair arrangement and not exploitive of your Mom. Unfortunately, I think you are in the minority.
3
Sounds like an opportunity for families to spend more time together, but if both parents work 7 to 7, when do they have time to be with their own children let alone with the grandparents?
21
In 1900 or so, over 90% of Americans lived on the farm. Three even 4 generations shared the kitchen. After WW II, farms and farming faded and folks drifted to cities; the multigenerational house vanished. Today, less than 2% live on the farm. Some do not know what a farm looks like. Most eat processed foods - and look like it.
The suburbs grew after 1940. I was born in 1939. I watched as the rings extended outward, and the nuclear family replaced the extended family. Today the nuclear is under attack.
Read William D. Cohan on suicide in today's New York Times. Stress in our overachievers. We raised 6, put all through college, medical and other grad schools. 11 grandchildren. We farm, they visit. We refer to our farm as a family farm without family. We would love it if this changed. The extended family is more healthy - if the family itself is emotionally healthy.
So, grandparents are helping. Across the globe this is the norm. The savagery of ISIL is moderated by the extended families of the orphaned. Aunts and uncles, cousins and in laws are helping. I know. We are searching to see if we can help an orphan.
Grandparents will do well if they are truly needed. It is the best thing in the world for them. However, the need they fill needs to be examined. Stress in the parent or the child is not good. Some relish stress. Even then it is not good.
Still, the extended family is good. Let there be no question about this.
The suburbs grew after 1940. I was born in 1939. I watched as the rings extended outward, and the nuclear family replaced the extended family. Today the nuclear is under attack.
Read William D. Cohan on suicide in today's New York Times. Stress in our overachievers. We raised 6, put all through college, medical and other grad schools. 11 grandchildren. We farm, they visit. We refer to our farm as a family farm without family. We would love it if this changed. The extended family is more healthy - if the family itself is emotionally healthy.
So, grandparents are helping. Across the globe this is the norm. The savagery of ISIL is moderated by the extended families of the orphaned. Aunts and uncles, cousins and in laws are helping. I know. We are searching to see if we can help an orphan.
Grandparents will do well if they are truly needed. It is the best thing in the world for them. However, the need they fill needs to be examined. Stress in the parent or the child is not good. Some relish stress. Even then it is not good.
Still, the extended family is good. Let there be no question about this.
10
Paying that kind of rent in old age seems nuts, but my grandmother lived down the street when I was growing up, and it had an indelible effect on me. She lives in my heart forever.
34
A third floor walk-up for a 74 year old?
69
I kinda wondered about that myself. Apparently this is a HECK of a lady, in amazingly good physical condition. I'm 15 years younger, and if I had to go up and down that many stairs a day, I'd be in the hospital having a full knee replacement. Most 75 year olds couldn't do this AT ALL, and that's not counting running around with an active toddler for 12 hours a day.
All I could think is: what happens when Grandma falls on slippery, icy stairs in the winter and breaks her hip? Walk-up apartments are not very forgiving of things like this. Will her adult children care for her, as she has cared for her grandchildren?
All I could think is: what happens when Grandma falls on slippery, icy stairs in the winter and breaks her hip? Walk-up apartments are not very forgiving of things like this. Will her adult children care for her, as she has cared for her grandchildren?
16
No!
1
this article is crazy why would anyone want to pay so much rent & then take care of a child at this age all day long..hey I have one grandchild and she lives right here in AZ but thanks to her mom I don't get to see her as much I would like and they only live up the road..I do want to go back to Brooklyn for my own reasons but housing in NYC is out of this world.....believe me my daughter-in-law would love to get rid of me & hubby.....like the saying goes a daughter is forever but not a son as soon as he meets the one it step aside folks.....I have been trying to get back to my roots but I would have to hit the lottery or strike it rich to get back to NYC..glad it is working for these family.
13
Yikes Brooklyn so sorry you have a daughter-in-law that's not so inviting. That must hurt.
16
"I would have to hit the lottery or strike it rich to get back to NYC".
This would be true for about 95% of all Americans. The prices quoted blithely here -- though I am sure they are quite accurate -- are more than most people EARN a month, let alone can spend on rent. This is the upper 4% of income for the nation. Please let's not forget this.
This would be true for about 95% of all Americans. The prices quoted blithely here -- though I am sure they are quite accurate -- are more than most people EARN a month, let alone can spend on rent. This is the upper 4% of income for the nation. Please let's not forget this.
15
Being geographically and emotionally close to loving grandparents is great for children. And when the time comes for the parents to care for the grandparents, these children will likely be adolescents/young adults and could lend a hand to their parents if they go to school/college or work close to home. The families that can work this arrangement out are lucky. Enjoy.
8
How about an article about GrandParent Family Apartments, a supportive housing residence in the Bronx for low-income grandparents raising grandchildren?
The residence also provides educational and other services to children.
The residence also provides educational and other services to children.
40
I realize that this is the Real Estate section of the NYT, but especially on this issue, the concentration on affluent people is, as always, extremely disturbing.
This is a serious problem for the rest of us - working-class, middle-class people; we see our children struggling with daycare, finances, time to be with their children. Recently my pcp told me that her practice has been discussing this as a health issue: they’re seeing grandparents suffering, physically and emotionally, from being responsible for more than is appropriate for their age, who are really not up to all the demands of this work, but are determined to be "good parents.” Many young parents turn to their parents in desperation - they want to stay home with their young children, but can't manage financially on just one salary, nor can they afford daycare. These are *not* people who are taking extravagant vacations, etc.; on the contrary, they are usually unable to take *any* vacation, or do much of anything else for pleasure. They struggle to pay the bills (including their student loans), and need help, financially and otherwise, from their parents. These are the grandparents my pcp is seeing, who see their children struggling and feel they must help, even when it is detrimental to their own health. Many of us are coming up with “solutions” which are unhealthy, untenable, and often create more problems.
Why are other countries finding solutions? We are not even looking.
This is a serious problem for the rest of us - working-class, middle-class people; we see our children struggling with daycare, finances, time to be with their children. Recently my pcp told me that her practice has been discussing this as a health issue: they’re seeing grandparents suffering, physically and emotionally, from being responsible for more than is appropriate for their age, who are really not up to all the demands of this work, but are determined to be "good parents.” Many young parents turn to their parents in desperation - they want to stay home with their young children, but can't manage financially on just one salary, nor can they afford daycare. These are *not* people who are taking extravagant vacations, etc.; on the contrary, they are usually unable to take *any* vacation, or do much of anything else for pleasure. They struggle to pay the bills (including their student loans), and need help, financially and otherwise, from their parents. These are the grandparents my pcp is seeing, who see their children struggling and feel they must help, even when it is detrimental to their own health. Many of us are coming up with “solutions” which are unhealthy, untenable, and often create more problems.
Why are other countries finding solutions? We are not even looking.
95
A solution that has elderly 75 year old widows selling a paid up home in a warm climate, to move to a freezing climate and spend $3000 a month rent -- that is not a very practical solution.
How on earth will this work in 5 years, when the children are still very young and only in kindergarten? and Grandma is EIGHTY? Will she still be hoofing it up 3 flights of stairs to a walk up studio apartment?
Note: I don't think any other nations have particularly more brilliant solutions. They do many of the same things, including enlisting senior women to raise their own grandkids.
How on earth will this work in 5 years, when the children are still very young and only in kindergarten? and Grandma is EIGHTY? Will she still be hoofing it up 3 flights of stairs to a walk up studio apartment?
Note: I don't think any other nations have particularly more brilliant solutions. They do many of the same things, including enlisting senior women to raise their own grandkids.
9
yeah, don't get me started on the NYC transplants in Charleston who spent a "modest" 250K on renovating a so-called cottage. I mean what world do these people live in? not mine, that is for sure.
"Their daughter and her husband had purchased a two-family townhouse in Bushwick, Brooklyn, in 2014 for $969,000."
When I read about people who cannot be satisfied in life with the basics: nature, reading, walking, cooking, creating - but see perpetual dining out, blockbuster museums, and crowds as the only way to feel 'alive,' I can't help but think of one word: addict.
The grandchildren are lucky to have loving grandparents around, but they will likely just be another generation of Americans who value consumption and external stimulation over quieter, and perhaps, more meaningful, pursuits.
When I read about people who cannot be satisfied in life with the basics: nature, reading, walking, cooking, creating - but see perpetual dining out, blockbuster museums, and crowds as the only way to feel 'alive,' I can't help but think of one word: addict.
The grandchildren are lucky to have loving grandparents around, but they will likely just be another generation of Americans who value consumption and external stimulation over quieter, and perhaps, more meaningful, pursuits.
39
Yes, I'm addicted to good theater, foreign films, frequent concerts, world class museums and multicultural neighborhood restaurants. In addition, I am an avid reader and can easily travel to see mother nature's glory. (AARP has listed the upper westside of Manhattan the 2nd best area for seniors to live in the US) And children exposed to the amazing things in NY are enriched and extremely fortunate.
20
$969,900 for a two-family townhouse is very cheap by Brooklyn standards. That's about as cheap as housing gets in Manhattan and Brooklyn.
10
Bravo! I was repulsed by the materialism clearly so embraced by these parents. And as for "whose apartments don't have a little roach problem" (??!!) Reply: most of us!
Three thousand dollars a month for am "alcove studio" in a Frank Gehry-designed building is not only morally reprehensible,
it makes absolutely NO sense for a person of retirement age and income.
Three thousand dollars a month for am "alcove studio" in a Frank Gehry-designed building is not only morally reprehensible,
it makes absolutely NO sense for a person of retirement age and income.
19
Like several of the commenters here, I find this trend somewhat disturbing. Why would well-off, dual career couples ask their elderly parents to work as full-time babysitters. All but one of the families profiled here don't even seem to be paying the rent for their parent. I have a feeling that the adult children profiled are like so many Gen Xers and others I have worked with over the years who never spare expense when it comes to their branded clothing and accessories, their real estate purchases in upwardly mobile enclaves, their luxury brand cars, or their vacations and restaurant meals. These same individuals also rely on their parents to provide full-time childcare and other assistance without compensation. Just seems patently unfair to ask parents, who presumably have worked hard all their lives and have made innumerable sacrifices, to now give up their valuable remaining time of mobility and mental health to engage in such grueling and thankless work. I can definitely see the occasional babysitting or taking one's grandchildren on trips, but the adult kids profiled here seem to be having it all on the backs of their parents. Just doesn't seem fair and I worry when the grandchildren no longer need full-time care and the parents are deteriorating whether these adult children will cut back on their high powered careers and lifestyles to selflessly care for their parents. I'm not hopeful.
215
I noticed that too and also the (relatively) young age of the grandparents profiled. Caring for babies can be fun, if exhausting, but caring for elderly people is rarely fun, especially for people whose own needs have been catered to for their entire lives. I'm afraid I'm not too hopeful either.
30
The grandparents are free to refuse, are they not?
15
Grueling yes, thankless no. But you do have a point - these lucky grandkids will hopefully grow to help their parents take care of their grandparents.
1
Could you not have profiled at least one household where a grandparent(s) relocated to the NYC because his/her child/child-in-law could not afford both rent and child care and the grandparent(s)'s social security and supplemental benefits--i.e. food stamps, lifeline telephone..--kept them out of homeless a shelter?
101
@Country Squiress: No. If the grandparents were living on social security and had supplemental benefits, such as food stamps and lifeline telephone, they could not have afforded to live in Manhattan or most of Brooklyn. They would have stayed where they were living.
@Anne. No, Anne, they would move into the same housing occupied by their children and grandchildren and added their incomes to that already supporting the household; a separate residence for the grandparents would not be part of the arrangement.
1
Good luck for those "grandparents" who've relocated to NYC...when their age catches up with their ability to remain independent, unless their children take them in, there will be NO safe assisted living residences in Brooklyn under the failed guidelines of the NY Dept of Health.
Don't believe me...? Just google Prospect Park Residence eviction and see what a complicit Dept of Health and a failure of the NY Dept of Health...the Attorney General...and our State Assembly- which has failed to pass a Bill giving assisted living/senior residences more than the 90 days notice to get out that real estate churners are allowed to impose...on your loved ones and on my own.
Don't kid yourself...when the time comes to depend on others as elders' needs invariably will arise, you'll be subjected to an amoral system in which real estate owners masquerade as senior residences until they can say they need to close conveniently when the price is right to sell their property.
Depressing...yes it is...and it must be stopped.
Don't believe me...? Just google Prospect Park Residence eviction and see what a complicit Dept of Health and a failure of the NY Dept of Health...the Attorney General...and our State Assembly- which has failed to pass a Bill giving assisted living/senior residences more than the 90 days notice to get out that real estate churners are allowed to impose...on your loved ones and on my own.
Don't kid yourself...when the time comes to depend on others as elders' needs invariably will arise, you'll be subjected to an amoral system in which real estate owners masquerade as senior residences until they can say they need to close conveniently when the price is right to sell their property.
Depressing...yes it is...and it must be stopped.
36
But you can be an independent person in NYC, even if you can't in most of the country, because you can get around without driving.
4
@WSB: that has to be the greatest fallacy put forth in this kind of article. If you cannot drive, the chances are very good you also cannot walk to the bus stop or subway in freezing cold, rainy or windy weather or on icy slushy sidewalks! I'd hate to see a person in a walker trying to navigate this, without assistance. Do you think a frail 80 year old can take a week's worth of groceries home, while managing a cane or walker? in February? in a blizzard?
Yet you can do all these things with a CAR. The only limitation would be if your eyesight was what was failing. But with cataract surgery and intraoccular lenses, genuine eyesight failure is rarer than ever even among the very elderly.
A CAR will let a senior individual enter the vehicle from within a garage or parking structure, without going out of doors in bad weather --- drive to the desired location -- park in handicapped spaces nearby and go directly inside the building. A person taking a bus cannot do so. (A taxi might work, but that is going to be a huge expense if you do it several times a week.)
You are assuming an senior who is extremely fit & able to walk. That's OK for 60-somethings. Not for 80-somethings.
I'm not even getting into buildings without elevators, as one of the seniors quoted in the article moved to a THIRD FLOOR WALK UP....bless her heart. But most of us could not do that at 75.
Yet you can do all these things with a CAR. The only limitation would be if your eyesight was what was failing. But with cataract surgery and intraoccular lenses, genuine eyesight failure is rarer than ever even among the very elderly.
A CAR will let a senior individual enter the vehicle from within a garage or parking structure, without going out of doors in bad weather --- drive to the desired location -- park in handicapped spaces nearby and go directly inside the building. A person taking a bus cannot do so. (A taxi might work, but that is going to be a huge expense if you do it several times a week.)
You are assuming an senior who is extremely fit & able to walk. That's OK for 60-somethings. Not for 80-somethings.
I'm not even getting into buildings without elevators, as one of the seniors quoted in the article moved to a THIRD FLOOR WALK UP....bless her heart. But most of us could not do that at 75.
12
My grandparents lived in the UES until their late 80s. They picked up food from the deli, bought groceries daily, and had access to a wide range of senior services. Of course you can't live a suburban, Costco-sized life in the city. The whole point is you don't have to.
11
I'm with the commenters who claim that the article was premature or written with selection bias re the choice of interviewees. My wife and I are in similar circumstances having moved to NYC from Vancouver, BC when our first grandson was born nearly two years ago. While we initially enjoyed many of the attitudes of the grandparents interviewed for the article (variety of ethnicities, entertainment possibilities, vibrant NYC street scenes), that has been worn down by the extreme temperatures in summer and winter, pollution (noise and air), and isolation. Yes, being with our grandchildren (just added another last week) has compensated for all the City's many shortcomings, but it's far from sweetness and light. ....And don't get me started on the loss of quality of life/health care/liberal politics as a result of moving from Canada.
99
With all the advantages of Canada , why are so many Canadians here many of whom are illegally working?
6
@WSB: every year, on average, about 250,000 Canadians emigrate to the US (legally). A few do it illegally as well.
In that time period, about 25,000 Americans emigrate to Canada. Most of them do so because they have married a Canadian citizen.
Now remember, Canada is 1/10th the population of the US -- but she sends us 10 times more immigrants! DO THE MATH.
if all the lefty liberals who SWEAR they will move to Canada, because it is more politically liberal, ever did so, these numbers would not be true. And they are. It's all talk and hot air, from armchair bloviators.
In that time period, about 25,000 Americans emigrate to Canada. Most of them do so because they have married a Canadian citizen.
Now remember, Canada is 1/10th the population of the US -- but she sends us 10 times more immigrants! DO THE MATH.
if all the lefty liberals who SWEAR they will move to Canada, because it is more politically liberal, ever did so, these numbers would not be true. And they are. It's all talk and hot air, from armchair bloviators.
4
Concerned Citizen - Also - Your numbers are completely made up. Nowhere near that many Canadians migrate to the US. Also - the average Canadian has a higher quality of life than the average US citizen. The US has less harsh weather...
7
A stay-at-home wife who was the middle-class status symbol of the last century. Is the non-live in grandnanny this century's version? Clearly, either the parents or granny has to be wealthy enough to afford to buy or rent in NYC.
34
so true..I sure would like to know how in the word they can afford to do this..NYC when it comes to housing is crazy but everything in the City is pricey..Hate where I live & love to go back to my roots but I would starve and be homeless in a matter of 1 week....so I will keep hating it out here but at least I can afford it for now.
17
I can't believe anyone feels that a day 7 am to 7 pm with a very young grandchild would be a positive experience. Or maybe it's just me. Ms. Rice was 58 when the arrangement began. That isn't old but it's beyond the time when I would want to be beholden to a small child, be it my grandchild or not. I love my grandchildren, but I am their grandmother not their mother or father. I know I will get in trouble for saying this but if you have a high powered job that keeps you away from home from 7 am to 7 pm, don't have children. My opinion is you can't have it all.
I remember when my children were teenagers and a few of their friends got pregnant and had to move back in or stay for an extended period of time with their parents. I told them then and I meant it, "Do not think that I will take on the responsibility of raising my grandchildren." I meant it then and I mean it even more now. I have a life. I have limitations. I have a full-time job. I am not anyone's nanny.
I remember when my children were teenagers and a few of their friends got pregnant and had to move back in or stay for an extended period of time with their parents. I told them then and I meant it, "Do not think that I will take on the responsibility of raising my grandchildren." I meant it then and I mean it even more now. I have a life. I have limitations. I have a full-time job. I am not anyone's nanny.
138
Amen!
I completely agree with you about not having children if one prefers a high-powered job to spending time with children (equally true for men and women); yes, we feel we’ll get in trouble for saying it, but what is the problem with just recognizing you don’t want children? There’s no shame if your preference is to devote your entire day to work, or if you simply just don’t enjoy children; and if you don’t enjoy children, having them is reprehensible.
I completely agree with you about not having children if one prefers a high-powered job to spending time with children (equally true for men and women); yes, we feel we’ll get in trouble for saying it, but what is the problem with just recognizing you don’t want children? There’s no shame if your preference is to devote your entire day to work, or if you simply just don’t enjoy children; and if you don’t enjoy children, having them is reprehensible.
30
I raised my children in Philadelphia, in an up-and-coming but still very working class neighborhood. Both sets of grandparents were recently widowed and remarried in very short order. Except for the occasional (and scheduled well in advance) dinner out, neither of the 'rents were available for babysitting or childcare, thank you very much. The idea of traveling from the Main Line (a few short miles away) to the dingy row houses of Philadelphia was not exactly their idea of a good time. And they were too busy traveling the world, volunteering and enjoying the lives they had made together.
This was the 1980s. I used to watch those working-class families, many of whom had lived in houses in that neighborhood for generations, take care of all of the children of their extended families lovingly and easily. They offered on many occasions to take mine, too, and though both children went to excellent (and extremely expensive) day care, they loved to spend the evenings outside jumping rope, chalking the sidewalks and resting in the loving arms of one adopted grandmother or another while I spent a few excellent moments catching up on the laundry. Afterwards, in the summer, we all sat and laughed on the "stoop" (translation: steps) as the old gals roped off the street and set up tables for nighttime bingo.
I say this because even though I'm terribly jealous (imagine the money we could have saved), there is something so wonderful about grandparents being in their children's lives.
This was the 1980s. I used to watch those working-class families, many of whom had lived in houses in that neighborhood for generations, take care of all of the children of their extended families lovingly and easily. They offered on many occasions to take mine, too, and though both children went to excellent (and extremely expensive) day care, they loved to spend the evenings outside jumping rope, chalking the sidewalks and resting in the loving arms of one adopted grandmother or another while I spent a few excellent moments catching up on the laundry. Afterwards, in the summer, we all sat and laughed on the "stoop" (translation: steps) as the old gals roped off the street and set up tables for nighttime bingo.
I say this because even though I'm terribly jealous (imagine the money we could have saved), there is something so wonderful about grandparents being in their children's lives.
29
As one who's nearing "older adult" status, I'd retire in New York in a New York minute..... If I could afford to. I've spent a lot of time in New York and know the landscape pretty well. And I could afford almost everything about living there. Except housing. We have a really nice place paid off that's worth about $350-400K where we live. That might buy us a cheap studio in a part of NYC that we'd want to live in. And we're not willing to retire to a tiny studio just to be in NYC - it's a really wonderful city, but it's not THAT wonderful. Maybe if our kids hit the big time and lived there we'd come to take care of grandkids too, but there's no way we'd be able to stay. Good for those who can, but most can't. And we're pretty well off, just not INCREDIBLY well off...
19
I don't think $400K will buy a studio in a New York neighborhood that you would want to live in. I sold a 500 square foot studio for quite a bit more than that and that was years ago. Prices have only gone up since then. You could however pool your money and buy as an LLC.
6
Your $350-400K would be a 50% down payment on a nice one-bedroom apartment in lovely parts of Brooklyn. Take a closer look before you dismiss the possibility! I have loved downsizing and living in BK.
2
I know several 65+ people who have bought in Bay Ridge recently and they are far from rich. Safe streets, many senior activities and and express buses to Manhattan.
2
If a person can afford Manhattan for retirement it is great. You have the world-renounced hospitals, physicians, and restaurants. Cnvenient access to three major airports for travel. The food is the best along with the culture and Broadway. One is never bored. A person can purchase a bagel, go to a drug store, order out, etc. 24 hours a day and that cannot be done in most of the rest of the world.
12
I live in the back end of nowheresville, Janis -- fly over country. The Rustbelt.
I can go out and buy drugs at 3AM, because we have several 24 drug stores. Also a couple of 24 hour supermarkets, which stock a lot of things besides food (cosmetics, toiletries, kids stuff, etc.).
A bagel? not as good a one, perhaps, but I assure you I can buy one at any hour of the day or night. We have all night donut shops and eateries.
On top of that: you are assuming a person WANTS to be eating at 2AM. My god, the indigestion! I did not do that at 22, I am not going to do it in my 50s or 60s. I'm asleep at night, or in my jams watching TV.
You may be a 24 hour Party Person, but most folks are not. I do not feel a huge need to order takeout in the wee hours, but if I did -- yes, we do have some all night places.
We also have a world class orchestra....world class museums....the Number #1 rated coronary care hospital in the WORLD, and some of the best physicans, too. You have an incredibly myopic view of the rest of the US, as if it was 1950 (or 1850) and we were living in log cabins.
I can go out and buy drugs at 3AM, because we have several 24 drug stores. Also a couple of 24 hour supermarkets, which stock a lot of things besides food (cosmetics, toiletries, kids stuff, etc.).
A bagel? not as good a one, perhaps, but I assure you I can buy one at any hour of the day or night. We have all night donut shops and eateries.
On top of that: you are assuming a person WANTS to be eating at 2AM. My god, the indigestion! I did not do that at 22, I am not going to do it in my 50s or 60s. I'm asleep at night, or in my jams watching TV.
You may be a 24 hour Party Person, but most folks are not. I do not feel a huge need to order takeout in the wee hours, but if I did -- yes, we do have some all night places.
We also have a world class orchestra....world class museums....the Number #1 rated coronary care hospital in the WORLD, and some of the best physicans, too. You have an incredibly myopic view of the rest of the US, as if it was 1950 (or 1850) and we were living in log cabins.
"world class orchestra and museums"??? that couldn't be anywheresville. World Class is an over used term nowadays - kind of like A's in college. Very few things in lifer are that excellent.
The online link to this article began with a pop-up ad for "Residences from $5.2M to $18M." Real estate and rental prices in NY distort reality. I love NY, but whatever "trend" this article is trying to suggest seems unsustainable. Most seniors that I know contend with fixed budgets and trying to figure out how to pay for escalating costs of medications.
37
I don't know the finances of the seniors in this article, nor are they obligated to reveal them -- but for most people, spending this huge sum in your 70s means you WILL NOT HAVE THIS MONEY to pay for Assisted Living or nursing care in your 80s and 90s. That could result in your having to go to a miserable Medicaid facility instead of private care. That is a SERIOUS issue.
Now, maybe everyone here has inherited wealth, or the adult children are all hedge fundies and money is no issue. But for 99% of humanity, money is THE issue. Draining your parents assets, so you can have free child care -- that is VERY selfish.
Now, maybe everyone here has inherited wealth, or the adult children are all hedge fundies and money is no issue. But for 99% of humanity, money is THE issue. Draining your parents assets, so you can have free child care -- that is VERY selfish.
1
Excellent idea- The city is alive and vibrant- plus great doctors and hospitals- very important for seniors. The active life style is wonderful.
8
Another preposterous, elitist New York Times story. Get real, please.
116
Not mentioned is the tax advantages--
Many of these grandparents are moving from suburbs where property taxes pay for services to a City that gets a significant percentage of its tax income from an income tax.
The sell their place in the suburbs, with its excellent schools (which they don't need anymore) and its regressive [and growing] property taxes to a young could with children that will use the schools. They move to the City, with lower property taxes and a fixed income tax rate during after their peak earning years.
Many of these grandparents are moving from suburbs where property taxes pay for services to a City that gets a significant percentage of its tax income from an income tax.
The sell their place in the suburbs, with its excellent schools (which they don't need anymore) and its regressive [and growing] property taxes to a young could with children that will use the schools. They move to the City, with lower property taxes and a fixed income tax rate during after their peak earning years.
10
Uh, that makes no sense. Florida has no state or county or city taxes, a HUGE savings for seniors. It also has no taxes on estates.
A house increases in value; an apartment is not an asset AT ALL and the rent goes up each year. The taxes on a house are DEDUCTIBLE. Most seniors get a homestead exemption as well.
The taxes on any sort of income in NYC are HUGE compared to Florida (or the Midwest or South or Southwest).
If anything, these seniors are facing increased taxes, and the loss of real estate appreciation.
A house increases in value; an apartment is not an asset AT ALL and the rent goes up each year. The taxes on a house are DEDUCTIBLE. Most seniors get a homestead exemption as well.
The taxes on any sort of income in NYC are HUGE compared to Florida (or the Midwest or South or Southwest).
If anything, these seniors are facing increased taxes, and the loss of real estate appreciation.
Just so you know - you can own an apartment. Most of them are co-ops (as in cooperative ownership) and many are condos. They actually benefit old people because they don't have to maintain a house. Also - real estate taxes are actually pretty low in NYC. That's why the overall population is actually aging in NYC. Part of it is what I just described - while part of it is the transportation options. Also of note - if you are lower income in NYC - you get more help from the government than you do elsewhere in the country.
Yet another reason to increase accessibility on New York City transit. Maybe 35 years ago I could carry an umbrella stroller up and down the subway stairs. Not anymore. Accessible transit helps everybody including grandmas with strollers.
13
Yet another fake trend piece, focused on people with money. The word "summoned" is a little appalling, too.
88
Whatever seniors enjoyed in NYC is long gone. I lived for 2 months in Brooklyn in my father-in-law's house. I was going up and back to settle the estate. The first time I came back, I loved it. The second time, it was OK. The third time, I really don't want to move back here.
Before I retired, I lived and worked in Manhattan in a rent-stabilized apartment. I was born in Manhattan. I used to go to the flea markets on Canal Street and around 24th Street and 6th Avenue. Loved the East Village and all the 2nd hand shops. Times square with its raw flavor.
It is not my city anymore. I miss what NYC used to be.
Before I retired, I lived and worked in Manhattan in a rent-stabilized apartment. I was born in Manhattan. I used to go to the flea markets on Canal Street and around 24th Street and 6th Avenue. Loved the East Village and all the 2nd hand shops. Times square with its raw flavor.
It is not my city anymore. I miss what NYC used to be.
51
Plenty of second-hand stores in Brooklyn. Also architectural cast-offs places here and there.
If you want "raw flavor," you can still go to Times Square and see tawdriness and vulgarity parading about. Or you can go to Second Avenue in Brooklyn, near Costco, and find adult-only shops. Is that really what you're looking for? Really?
New York City still has everything -- parks, museums, eateries of all gastronomic varieties, shopping of all sorts. No, you won't find floors of antique doorknobs and doors around the corner from Cooper Union anymore, and Schirmer's with all its sheet music is gone; but flea markets are right near the Williamsburg Savings Bank on weekends, in front of the church at Voorhies and Ocean Avenue, and in many other places too.
Yes, once upon a time my rent was about $325 a month. But that was in the late 1970s, and I was making $8,000 a year as a first-year teacher.
If you want "raw flavor," you can still go to Times Square and see tawdriness and vulgarity parading about. Or you can go to Second Avenue in Brooklyn, near Costco, and find adult-only shops. Is that really what you're looking for? Really?
New York City still has everything -- parks, museums, eateries of all gastronomic varieties, shopping of all sorts. No, you won't find floors of antique doorknobs and doors around the corner from Cooper Union anymore, and Schirmer's with all its sheet music is gone; but flea markets are right near the Williamsburg Savings Bank on weekends, in front of the church at Voorhies and Ocean Avenue, and in many other places too.
Yes, once upon a time my rent was about $325 a month. But that was in the late 1970s, and I was making $8,000 a year as a first-year teacher.
Several important things not mentioned in this article. This is part of a national trend; NYC is not exceptional in this regard. And it's more than just restaurants and Broadway shows that make New York a great place to live (really at any age). You don't need a car to live here because of our wonderful public transit system, which is great for seniors who can no longer drive. We have access to great health care facilities not found in most suburbs. And finally, people are choosing live in here to escape the social isolation that can come from living in suburbs (especially for those who don't drive). Bowling Alone, anyone?
21
Clearly, you are myopic in Brooklyn.
A senior with mobility problems -- simply age, arthritis, a cane, a walker -- will not be able to negotiate a bus or subway, nor be able to walk blocks to get to the bus stop or subway station. It will be hard anytime, but winter will be a real misery. The biggest risk to seniors are FALLS -- so walking long distances on icy, slippery sidewalks in the winter is asking for trouble.
In comparison, driving is MUCH safer, plus you don't have to worry about carrying back purchases, bags, or groceries.
You have not even figured in that these folks are caring for toddlers! how are they to carry a stroller, AND themselves AND a toddler on the bus or subway???? Or do you fancy they can take a taxi on each and every trip?
You are also wrong about health are. Most suburbs have wonderful hospitals, or outlets of hospitals, and clinics and doctor's offices. And they are easy to get to, since you can drive up to the door (especially if you have a handicappe parking sticker!).
Social isolation? Are you kidding? The suburbs are chock-a-block with senior activities, senior centers, adult day cares, church and synagogue groups -- lunch programs, bingo, mah jong, book clubs, library programs. The list is endless. And you can drive easily to all of them, without walking or having to get on and off a bus.
You are FAR more likely to be socially isolated in a walk-up building, with bad knees & a fear of falling, & where it is so hard to get out in winter.
A senior with mobility problems -- simply age, arthritis, a cane, a walker -- will not be able to negotiate a bus or subway, nor be able to walk blocks to get to the bus stop or subway station. It will be hard anytime, but winter will be a real misery. The biggest risk to seniors are FALLS -- so walking long distances on icy, slippery sidewalks in the winter is asking for trouble.
In comparison, driving is MUCH safer, plus you don't have to worry about carrying back purchases, bags, or groceries.
You have not even figured in that these folks are caring for toddlers! how are they to carry a stroller, AND themselves AND a toddler on the bus or subway???? Or do you fancy they can take a taxi on each and every trip?
You are also wrong about health are. Most suburbs have wonderful hospitals, or outlets of hospitals, and clinics and doctor's offices. And they are easy to get to, since you can drive up to the door (especially if you have a handicappe parking sticker!).
Social isolation? Are you kidding? The suburbs are chock-a-block with senior activities, senior centers, adult day cares, church and synagogue groups -- lunch programs, bingo, mah jong, book clubs, library programs. The list is endless. And you can drive easily to all of them, without walking or having to get on and off a bus.
You are FAR more likely to be socially isolated in a walk-up building, with bad knees & a fear of falling, & where it is so hard to get out in winter.
This article put a smile on my face.... Growing up in the 50's your family was always around... grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins. How nice to have your family around. Yes, the city has it's challenges, but no matter where you live in the world, there are challenges. BUT, to be able to see your grandchildren every day is a gift and to know that they will have wonderful memories of their childhood that you'll be a part of.... say no more!
11
Yes, the city is a wonderful place for people who want access to many wonderful things and the ability to be mobile without having to drive, but I, too, am struck by the rents mentioned in the article. I want NYC to return to the place where working and middle class people can live well. I have no desire to move to a retirement community or suburb or country, where, once I can't drive any more, I would become totally isolated, but I fret about the cost of the city. I will not have a six-figure retirement income.
100
This article is like "Friends" for the Aged grandparent (and their children) set. It's nice; it's pleasing, it's cute, and I mean no disrespect for the minority of those able to do it, but it's a fantasy for most. Especially in a world where the average income for a family of four is somewhere in the area of 45K a year.
But even so it does point to a demographic shift I, too, have observed. Grandparents and (older) caregivers are moving away from their "warehoused" existence society has been confining them to in our era and are returning...as probably has always been the case down thru the ages, to supporting a basic (societal) need. And that need is being supportive and helpful to the young, both children and their parents. In this I'd say it's a healthy trend for all.
John~
American Net'Zen
But even so it does point to a demographic shift I, too, have observed. Grandparents and (older) caregivers are moving away from their "warehoused" existence society has been confining them to in our era and are returning...as probably has always been the case down thru the ages, to supporting a basic (societal) need. And that need is being supportive and helpful to the young, both children and their parents. In this I'd say it's a healthy trend for all.
John~
American Net'Zen
37
If they can take care of a toddler, they are far away from warehoused existence. They can have a life!
4
I love to visit my kids/grandchild in the NY area and wish I'd live closer so I could visit more frequently. When I'm visiting, I am delighted to help with anything I can. But I'm always happy to go home to my life. I'm a dynamic person with a variety of interests and am involved in the activities of my choice. Although I'm only 64, I know I don't have it in me, physically or psychologically, to be the parent of young children anymore.
19
What do you call elderly people who sell a $100k home in a warm climate to move into a $3k/month studio in NYC? Nuts!
33
what if two more children's families need them? What if they choose one set of grandchildren over another, occupying themselves as nannies, driver, babysitters, so much with one set they ignore the other grandkids? It is nice to see this phenomenon happening, but I have seen things from the other side too....unavailable grandparents too busy with their charges to visit or spend time with the other grandkids. And so I echo the commenter who asks why some parents can't stop asking their parents for help TO RAISE THEIR OWN KIDS!! I know firsthand that some grandparents are taken advantage of, and treated as the help rather than as special, loving people to visit. SPEAK up grannies who feel unappreciated! And do not forget to love your other children, grandchildren, and old friends.
36
So who are these relocating grandparents? They seem to be blessed with energy and money to burn, two obvious prerequisites for the sort of lifestyle this article describes. Retirement? What's that? And what of those in less than excellent physical condition? Quite invisible here; it's as if they don't exist.
These 'Accidental New Yorkers' are, let's face it, but a fortunate few, blessed not only with health and wealth but exceptional agility. The rest of us, of similar ages, who grew up in a real city that could be as gritty as grand but never boring and, most importantly, accessible - even Broadway shows, thanks to reduced-price catch-as-catch-can tickets - are in no hurry to move to New York City as it is today. (Note that I didn't say 'return'. You can't return to a place that no longer exists.) Most of us can't handle dealing with mini-accommodations at maxi-prices, and a lot of us - may today's society forgive what now seems a sin - are not about to embrace hustle, designer conformity, and custom workouts. We enjoyed being residents of a functioning city, but can't deal with becoming talking heads in what's become a theme park for the rich. That's just swapping one rat race for an even harder, more expensive one. No thanks.
These 'Accidental New Yorkers' are, let's face it, but a fortunate few, blessed not only with health and wealth but exceptional agility. The rest of us, of similar ages, who grew up in a real city that could be as gritty as grand but never boring and, most importantly, accessible - even Broadway shows, thanks to reduced-price catch-as-catch-can tickets - are in no hurry to move to New York City as it is today. (Note that I didn't say 'return'. You can't return to a place that no longer exists.) Most of us can't handle dealing with mini-accommodations at maxi-prices, and a lot of us - may today's society forgive what now seems a sin - are not about to embrace hustle, designer conformity, and custom workouts. We enjoyed being residents of a functioning city, but can't deal with becoming talking heads in what's become a theme park for the rich. That's just swapping one rat race for an even harder, more expensive one. No thanks.
29
They are also extremely wealthy. $3000 a month is a HUGE rent for someone on a fixed SS income.
2
I'm bemused by many of these comments. In many cultures, including my own, grandparents taking care of babies so parents can work is standard. Yes, these families are very lucky to be able to afford it, but there's nothing new under the sun here.
22
Thank you! And if the esteemed NYT would expand its horizons to the "outer boroughs", they would find families everywhere in which grandparents are helping to raise the next generation. Oh - and the grandparents didn't have to "relocate", because everybody's already living here!
1
I agree totally! In our culture for instance - it is an absolute shame for a senior to be put in a nursing home. My grandmother died right in her bed at home. She had a walker and we hired someone to cook for her during the day. We weren't shipping her out to any nursing home. Nursing homes should be for people who don't have any family. We live in selfish times.
1
What a nice feel-good story about how (wealthy?) people solve the problem of daycare, really the problem of who does all the work that women once did. Work that was so undervalued it wasn’t even recognized; suddenly,
when women in greater numbers began entering the paid workforce, through
necessity or desire, it was noticed that they actually had been doing quite a
bit of work: taking care of children, older relatives, plus all the essentials of living, such as eating!
While many countries recognize this as a societal problem, not an individual one, and provide universal daycare, for instance, or are trying to shorten the amount of hours people have to work, here it’s everyone for her/himself, and if you don't have the means, or don’t want to employ a nanny, your parents will need to step up - except for: those grandparents still employed, or who have health problems, or who are unable financially to move to become nannies and housekeepers. Or, how about all of us who love our children and grandchildren but who, after 40-50 years of working, want to have at least a few years “off?” - travel, perhaps, pursue a passion long denied when work had to come first, or do political work, etc.? Instead we're feeling the demand to do what grandparents are now expected to do: be daycare providers, chauffeurs, etc.
This problem is created by hyper-competitive, unregulated capitalism; grandparents aren't the answer.
when women in greater numbers began entering the paid workforce, through
necessity or desire, it was noticed that they actually had been doing quite a
bit of work: taking care of children, older relatives, plus all the essentials of living, such as eating!
While many countries recognize this as a societal problem, not an individual one, and provide universal daycare, for instance, or are trying to shorten the amount of hours people have to work, here it’s everyone for her/himself, and if you don't have the means, or don’t want to employ a nanny, your parents will need to step up - except for: those grandparents still employed, or who have health problems, or who are unable financially to move to become nannies and housekeepers. Or, how about all of us who love our children and grandchildren but who, after 40-50 years of working, want to have at least a few years “off?” - travel, perhaps, pursue a passion long denied when work had to come first, or do political work, etc.? Instead we're feeling the demand to do what grandparents are now expected to do: be daycare providers, chauffeurs, etc.
This problem is created by hyper-competitive, unregulated capitalism; grandparents aren't the answer.
32
What sense is there to earn a living and move into retirement in a (much) lower cost-of-living area, then retire to NY? While we do visit (and help with the grand kids) several times a year, it still is much cheaper than trying to live there. With the cost of living in NY, I would have nothing left to join the museums, go out to eat, or visit any other place.
13
Good luck for those "grandparents" who've relocated to NYC...when their age catches up with their ability to remain independent, unless their children take them in, there will be NO safe assisted living residences in Brooklyn under the failed guidelines of the NY Dept of Health.
Don't believe me...? Just google Prospect Park Residence eviction and see what a complicit Dept of Health and a failure of the NY Dept of Health...the Attorney General...and our State Assembly- which has failed to pass a Bill giving assisted living/senior residences more than the 90 days notice to get out that real estate churners are allowed to impose...on your loved ones and on my own.
Don't kid yourself...when the time comes to depend on others as elders' needs invariably will arise, you'll be subjected to an amoral system in which real estate owners masquerade as senior residences until they can say they need to close conveniently when the price is right to sell their property.
Depressing...yes it is...and it must be stopped.
Don't believe me...? Just google Prospect Park Residence eviction and see what a complicit Dept of Health and a failure of the NY Dept of Health...the Attorney General...and our State Assembly- which has failed to pass a Bill giving assisted living/senior residences more than the 90 days notice to get out that real estate churners are allowed to impose...on your loved ones and on my own.
Don't kid yourself...when the time comes to depend on others as elders' needs invariably will arise, you'll be subjected to an amoral system in which real estate owners masquerade as senior residences until they can say they need to close conveniently when the price is right to sell their property.
Depressing...yes it is...and it must be stopped.
12
Why not send the infants to Florida to live with the grandparents? The parents with high-pressure 24/7 jobs aren't spending much time with their babies anyway and one could wonder why they even had children.
40
thank you!!! It's ludicrous, isn't it?
2
It would seem they don't desire the children to grow up in Florida...???
I'd love to be able to live near my new granddaughter in NYC and even help with child care. But like lots of other people our age (60-66), we're facing unstable employment situations, loss of retirement investments, and the prospect of working longer (when we can find work). We'd never be able to afford to live in NYC but are glad to be within an easy drive of our son, daughter-in-law and new grandchild. But that's as far as it can go. The lovely picture painted here is, I suspect, something very few can achieve.
102
Wow...one woman sells her (presumably) paid for home in FL to move into a third floor walkup as she enters her golden years...another gets to put in 12 hour days, 7AM to 7PM caring for her grandchild...and their children are so self-centered they allow, nay expect, their own parents to do this. Why did they have children in the first place if it was never their intention to parent them? This article just confirms all the stereotypes I have of the shallowness and self-centeredness of all these fabulous New Yorkers and their high-flying lifestyles. The children are the accessories and the parents are the help. When our children were small we downsized our careers a bit and lived near my mother so she could help us on her terms. But, if these parents are happy in their lives, good for them.
34
These children will know, when they're older, that some parents manage to make time to see them grow up, whilst others out-source these rare and fleeting opportunities to the grandparents, many of whom don't have the heart to see their grandchildren cared for by paid strangers. My husband and I make sure our careers revolve around the needs of our children; we don't have the luxury of available (emotionally or physically) grandparents to help out. But I'd rather sacrifice my own luxuries to be with my own child than delegate these precious relationships to someone else, even if that someone is a grandparent.
2
Pretty pathetic. Don't have kids until you can figure the details out. Glad these overgrown children have a mommy or daddy who can drop their lives and come running.
29
NYC is the perfect place for old people -- who are losing it all -- teeth, eyesight, hearing, knees, hips --- GREAT MDs, public transit, food on every corner -- I have a cane but nowadays so do most of the other people on the bus! Piles of free entertainment.... and the weather is pdg.... did not use the AC ONCE last summer... Maybe the Bay area works as well....
12
I think there can be nothing more exciting or enriching than living in NYC during one's retirement years, but I worry that these uber successful Gen Xers are exploiting their parents. I mean they all "desperately need babysitters," but they don't seem to want to pay for them. I mean part-time childcare help is understandable, but asking your parent who presumably worked like a dog all of their lives, to now be a full-time nanny to your children begs the question, what will you do for them when they become old and frail and need intense supports at the same time you are still pursuing your high-powered career and coping with your kids who are now challenging teens? I worked with many such folks who were insistent on dressing in high end brand clothing, having high-end furnishings and cars while using their parents as their babysitters. But maybe I'm overthinking all of this and maybe in exchange for all of this childcare help, the kids are picking up the tab for the rent, but me thinks no.
32
Let's see how many of these adult children uproot their lives in order to care for their parents when the time comes.
59
That's another perk of the situation! Their parents will already be here in NYC - close to their adult children to lend a hand and right near some of the finest medical care in the country. That's certainly one of many reason I haven't left the city. I want to stay near my family. My parents have lived here all their lives and don't have any intention of leaving. It's a great place for the elderly.
1
Another, "only in New York City" article about housing and real estate. Most people, especially older and retired folks can't by any stretch of the imagination afford to relocate to NYC. The grandparents profiled in this article are either above the 95% income bracket in this country or their children are. This is such an unreal concept for many, many, many Americans that it's essentially a fantasy.
C'mon NY Times!! Give us some articles in the Real Estate section that are based in reality, instead of week after week, profiling only the wealthy and elite in society, for crying out loud!
C'mon NY Times!! Give us some articles in the Real Estate section that are based in reality, instead of week after week, profiling only the wealthy and elite in society, for crying out loud!
52
Thank you!!!!
would love to be able to live in NYC, but on ss benefits there is no place for me. this type of article doesnt make sence to me and probably thousands others. $3000/mn for a studio, Ha
23
As long as they are safe, which many cities were not in the near past, urban areas are more practical for retirees. Suburbs often have little little in the way of public transportation with stores and medical offices being well beyond walking distance. Then there is the question of what to do when you are home all day. There comes a time in life when the local mall loses its attraction as there is nothing one needs or even wants. The mental stimulation of cities cannot be overestimated.
51
If you cannot drive, it is a short time until you cannot walk or get onto a bus, or go down into a subway station. Poor vision -- neuropathy in your feet -- arthritis in your knees and hips -- the need for a walker or cane -- will make long city walks or public transit nearly impossible. My experiences of NYC were of crowded city sidewalks, bustling with people going quickly to their destinations -- bumping into others -- dashing across busy streets.
I cannot imagine a frail elderly person doing this. There is a vast gap between a healthy, active 65 year old and a frail, sickly 80 year old.
Public transit involves being able to walk out of your building (a third floor WALK UP in this article) and getting to the bus stop, and waiting in FEBRUARY in the freezing cold for a bus. Then navigating the steep bus steps and maybe having to STAND on a crowded bus. I cannot imagine a senior over 75 doing this with ease.
The difference is with a car, you can get into it in your own garage and then drive right to the doctor's office, parking right outside the door. Of course, a time comes when seniors cannot drive safely. But by then, they have other problems and need assistance with general living.
Sure the local mall might be boring. But then what do you do in the city? A person who cannot walk through the mall, won't be standing on long lines for a Broadway play. A person who cannot manage to eat in the mall food court, will not be able to navigate a fancy Brooklyn restaurant.
I cannot imagine a frail elderly person doing this. There is a vast gap between a healthy, active 65 year old and a frail, sickly 80 year old.
Public transit involves being able to walk out of your building (a third floor WALK UP in this article) and getting to the bus stop, and waiting in FEBRUARY in the freezing cold for a bus. Then navigating the steep bus steps and maybe having to STAND on a crowded bus. I cannot imagine a senior over 75 doing this with ease.
The difference is with a car, you can get into it in your own garage and then drive right to the doctor's office, parking right outside the door. Of course, a time comes when seniors cannot drive safely. But by then, they have other problems and need assistance with general living.
Sure the local mall might be boring. But then what do you do in the city? A person who cannot walk through the mall, won't be standing on long lines for a Broadway play. A person who cannot manage to eat in the mall food court, will not be able to navigate a fancy Brooklyn restaurant.
1
David, I think you raised a good point about city safety. Crime in the US has plummeted since the early 90s and cities are safer now than probably at any time since the 50s. So, an elderly person, as long as they can afford the astronomical cost of living, needn't feel unsafe in New York City (or most other cities), unlike 30 years ago.
1
Agree entirely with David with one caveat: one has to be able to afford living in urban areas such as NYC. If one can, the mental stimulation cannot be beat. That's why I chose to live my life in an urban area close to museums, music and theater.
A key point is missing in this report. This is the life of the wealthy! Who can pay $3000 for an apartment as a working person or as a retiree?
40
How many grandparents can afford to retire, buy an apartment in Manhattan, and are still healthy, wealthy and energetic enough to 'nanny' for free for their grandkids? No one I know is fortunate enough to have an arrangement like this, and I'm a city white-collar professional with kids, and a social circle to match. The city was too gritty and dangerous for these grandparents to raise their own precious kids here, but now that their kids have moved in and gentrified and suburbanized it, it's been made safe for grandparents. I suspect none of these families will be advocating for high-quality subsidized childcare for the masses, or rational work-life balance--after all, they have free labor at home to manage sick days, random school holidays, etc. Nice.
Manhattan is becoming Venice--a pretty playground for rich people, a Disneyfied, frozen simulacrum of a real city.
Manhattan is becoming Venice--a pretty playground for rich people, a Disneyfied, frozen simulacrum of a real city.
145
Exactly so.
Except not "is becoming" - it became that playground a while ago.
Except not "is becoming" - it became that playground a while ago.
8
Venice is nothing like that!
1
What major 'real' city hasn't become like that and how 'real' is a city that exists only in your imagination?
I've been several of these grandparents in recent years, but also well-off retirees who never lived here previously and have no personal ties to the city but find it an easy place to grow very old, mostly because they don't have to drive.
9
Sometimes when the elderly can't drive, they can't walk very far either even if they have a cane or walker. NYC streets are no place to be walking if you can't keep pace with the fast-moving throng.
4
@Lynn
You are so wrong. The elderly here are fine walking. My father was able to walk, shop and take the bus until his mid-90s. Would you have wanted him driving?
There are thousands of elderly in NYC (not just Manhattan) who can do their own shopping and go places until they are quite old. And then food can be delivered and you can take taxis or access-a-ride to get to doctors appointments.
NYC streets outside of mid-town are not that crowded or fast-paced. And NYers are used to dealing with the crowds.
You are so wrong. The elderly here are fine walking. My father was able to walk, shop and take the bus until his mid-90s. Would you have wanted him driving?
There are thousands of elderly in NYC (not just Manhattan) who can do their own shopping and go places until they are quite old. And then food can be delivered and you can take taxis or access-a-ride to get to doctors appointments.
NYC streets outside of mid-town are not that crowded or fast-paced. And NYers are used to dealing with the crowds.
2
The subtext to this piece is a bit unsettling as it portrays a lifestyle unavailable to most folks. All of the families portrayed appear to be extremely well-to-do.
And - I'm sorry - it breaks my heart to read that a little girl's well-off parents were too busy running their own seemingly high-end company that they rented an apartment for the grandmother and had her provide 12 hours of daily care. There are plenty of low-income folks who need to work hours like this to made ends meet who have no other choice...
And - I'm sorry - it breaks my heart to read that a little girl's well-off parents were too busy running their own seemingly high-end company that they rented an apartment for the grandmother and had her provide 12 hours of daily care. There are plenty of low-income folks who need to work hours like this to made ends meet who have no other choice...
26
Also distressing is the fact that most of the elderly featured in this piece are overweight or obese.
Not a good combination in NYC.
Not a good combination in NYC.
2
You move to NYC or SF or whatever hyper-competitive city your kids are in. Yes, they need you! How do you cope with the much higher taxes? The much-higher cost of living? Not having a garden? Giving up your friends? And the NYT recently published a long piece about the lack of "senior" facilities in the city, which were all closing to make way for more valuable rentals/condos: what happens to you when YOU need the care? Do you get shipped down to Pennsylvania, or upstate? This article needed to get past a very narrow demographic and tell us how it works for a larger population, if indeed it is, as you claim, a huge trend.
21
So the takeaway is that affluent parents can save money on childcare by cramming their children's grandparents into a studio in New York? Ok, gotcha.
40
Although it is both lovely and important for multi-generations of families to retain connections and be together, this is another NYT article about affluent families who come to NYC from elsewhere and who can afford expensive housing.
In the meantime, there continue to be plenty of people born and raised in NYC who are being pushed out of neighborhoods that were once middle or moderate income areas.
And there are also plenty of native New Yorkers who have managed to stay and already doing this - grandparents helping their adult children and caring for their grandchildren...
In the meantime, there continue to be plenty of people born and raised in NYC who are being pushed out of neighborhoods that were once middle or moderate income areas.
And there are also plenty of native New Yorkers who have managed to stay and already doing this - grandparents helping their adult children and caring for their grandchildren...
128
Amen. I would love to move back to NYC to nanny my grandkids when they come along, but it's completely out of the question financially.
I actually find this very sad, because for so many born and raised New Yorkers, the parents, aunts, uncles, cousins or even longtime neighbors who might have been close by at one point to help with childcare have been swept out by the type of systemic changes that are making this new dynamic possible. As for my own Bronx-bred parents, who come from a long line of apartment dwellers, I think they still pinch themselves that they live in a house with a yard and have a garage to park their car in. They don't see New York as an endless sushi buffet or giant art exhibit; they see it as place where living a "regular" life is not easy or pleasant-- and for those who can not be ensconced in a $3000/month studio, they are right.
171
Yes, very nice, who wouldn't want to retire to NYC? But"upwardly mobile"is correct. How many retirees can budget for $3k rent (likely to rise substantially over the course of their retirement?)
132
Ok. These couples (particularly the ones in high paying careers) are still children who need their parents help to manage their lives just as they did as teenagers (Ms. Zittman was "summoned" by her daughter?). And prefer to spend their wages on rent, eating out and outrageous vacation experiences rather than quality care for their children. I applaud the grandparents who find this commitment fulfilling, but really, kids, grow up!
121
Thank you. What a scam, eh?
8
Huh? I don't get the sense from this article that these families are pinching their pennies to avoid paying for care but rather love the idea of having a trusted, experienced caregiver and a close intergenerational familiy. Not sure why that is worthy of criticism. I don't know where I will be in life when my kids have families but if they called I would certainly consider it.
9
Maybe the, or one of the, reasons both parent work is to ensure that in a divorce, both parents can support themselves...er..more than likely, the woman.
4
Please interview them in a year - when the excitement has worn off. Ask them about the crowds, the noise, the subways that don't work on the weekends, and ask them how many psychotropic medications they're taking at that point.
62
This article was written in September -- some of the loveliest weather in the NE states.
I want to see a follow written in February. During a blizzard. When 75 year old grandma has to push a stroller through slush and ice. Or walk up 3 flights of slippery wet stairs. Or stand in the freezing cold waiting for a bus or cab.
Then let's talk.
I want to see a follow written in February. During a blizzard. When 75 year old grandma has to push a stroller through slush and ice. Or walk up 3 flights of slippery wet stairs. Or stand in the freezing cold waiting for a bus or cab.
Then let's talk.
8
Most of the interviewees have been in NYC for many years already, so I doubt one more year will change their minds. I do have a problem with the high rents, however. Not a lot of retirees can afford the sums that these people are paying.
4
I wouldn't be surprised to see the Grandparents taking over the rent controlled/stabilized apartments from their children who have decided to move to their vacation homes paid for by the substantial savings in rent over the years. And then as the Grandparents pass on to the great Rent Control Apartment in the Sky their children come back to feed at the rental trough once again.
And DeBlasio wants to increase the number of these apartments subsidized by market rate renters. For shame.
And DeBlasio wants to increase the number of these apartments subsidized by market rate renters. For shame.
28
Are you responding to the correct article? Not once did this article mention rent stabilization. most are in market rate or owned homes. You sound bitter
8
Get some help, John Smith, your obsession with rent-regulated tenants is borderline bat guano crazy. Not a real estate column goes by in which you don't spew your petty jealousy and warped fantasies: there are no little old ladies living in opulent $200 rentals. Once upon a time entire buildings were rent stabilized, that is until the deregulation laws went into effect. Who was subsidizing those apartments? No one, the same no ones who are subsidizing today's rent stabilized units.
Get over it. No one is forcing you to live here--let the door knob hit you where the good Lord split you--be gone if you can't afford to live in Manhattan (as you are so fond of telling others). I so wish there were a way to block annoying commenters.
Get over it. No one is forcing you to live here--let the door knob hit you where the good Lord split you--be gone if you can't afford to live in Manhattan (as you are so fond of telling others). I so wish there were a way to block annoying commenters.
9
NYC desperately needs to retain rent controlled and rent subsidized apartments. With foreign investors snapping up expensive new apartments at ever rising rates, driving up costs, there is nowhere for city families to go. It is difficult enough for families in NYC, given the cost of living and education, and we need a middle class presence. If you reduce the number of rent regulated apartments, you will do great harm to the people of this great city.
13
There's trouble in paradise (Fla). My personal view? South Florida is paradise from app. Dec-Feb. (One can debate the exact dates)...
The rest of the year it's Dante's inferno with the heat and humidity, worse than hell.
The rest of the year it's Dante's inferno with the heat and humidity, worse than hell.
56
I can give the exact dates, as many in my family are "snowbirds" and I lived in Florida for 3 years myself.
They are precisely November 1st to March 1st. The temps go down on that date and the humidity goes away, and the place is paradise on earth, with the scent of orange blossoms in the air.
Then on March 1st the humidity returns. Then the heat.
But it's bearable, if you have air conditioned everything and Floridians DO. They don't go outside, they don't play outside -- they go from air conditioned home to store to car and back. Many of them also have swimming pools and that helps.
It's also different for the elderly. They are thin skinned and feel the cold very painfully. They often LIKE it hot and humid. All my elderly relatives down there loved it, and were reluctant to even turn the air conditioning on! it was really had to visit them, the A/C would be set at 88º (!!!) which was merciless. But they seemed perfectly OK.
That's why it is such a paradise for the elderly down there. Everything is set up for them, and caters to their needs.
They are precisely November 1st to March 1st. The temps go down on that date and the humidity goes away, and the place is paradise on earth, with the scent of orange blossoms in the air.
Then on March 1st the humidity returns. Then the heat.
But it's bearable, if you have air conditioned everything and Floridians DO. They don't go outside, they don't play outside -- they go from air conditioned home to store to car and back. Many of them also have swimming pools and that helps.
It's also different for the elderly. They are thin skinned and feel the cold very painfully. They often LIKE it hot and humid. All my elderly relatives down there loved it, and were reluctant to even turn the air conditioning on! it was really had to visit them, the A/C would be set at 88º (!!!) which was merciless. But they seemed perfectly OK.
That's why it is such a paradise for the elderly down there. Everything is set up for them, and caters to their needs.
2
The best part is the air conditioning.
3
What this really seems to be is a story about wealthy old and young people who like NYC. The idea sounds wonderful - grandmas and grandpas living close by and involved in the daily life of their kids and grandkids. What also sounds wonderful is how rich these people all seem to be. Sure, it's great to live in Manhattan or Brooklyn when you own your own company, and grandma can comfortably pay $3000/month in rent. My husband and I couldn't even afford to live in NY and moved out the burbs once our second child came; I can't imagine that people can stay in the city and have their parents there as well.
133
Most seniors live on a combo of SS and pensions and a bit of savings. $3000 is more than most of them make. My dad died a few years back, and he was very private about money, but as his executor I saw his papers and he was bringing in a whopping $1400 a month. And he had a VERY good job as an engineer, and a nice defined benefit pension.
Remember ON TOP OF that $3000 was a key fee, broker fee, utilities, taxes, phone, cable TV, maybe even maintenance charges. It's no small thing to live in the most expensive large city in the US. Very few WORKING people could ever afford $3000 a month, let alone a retired 75 yr old widow!
Remember ON TOP OF that $3000 was a key fee, broker fee, utilities, taxes, phone, cable TV, maybe even maintenance charges. It's no small thing to live in the most expensive large city in the US. Very few WORKING people could ever afford $3000 a month, let alone a retired 75 yr old widow!
8
Depends on what you call "the city". Outside Manhattan, there are many neighborhoods that function is a very traditional New York fashion - relatives are scattered about, often within walking distance of each other. Even in my relatively small family, my son & his new family are a few blocks from us, from his sister in another direction, and a mile or so away from his wife's mother. We all help with the next generation and look out for each other as well. Only one member of the extended clan resides in high-priced Manhattan: the young accountant who is not yet a parent. And when the babies come, it's probably back to The Bronx, close to the rest of us.
7
I have to say I'm sort of jealous / judge-y / in-awe all at the same time.
Jealous, because I would love to have my parents taking care of my toddler instead of a toddler (not for the savings-- I would give my parents something in kind), but because there's no one else I would trust more with my kids.
Judge-y, because I would never dream of asking my parents to become my kid's nanny. They've raised their kids and they're done, and they should enjoy life. I almost think it's rude to put one's parents in such a position.
In-awe, because a) the arrangements of the couples in this article are working out so well and b) the grandparents don't seem to find it physically impossible to keep up with the grandkids!
Jealous, because I would love to have my parents taking care of my toddler instead of a toddler (not for the savings-- I would give my parents something in kind), but because there's no one else I would trust more with my kids.
Judge-y, because I would never dream of asking my parents to become my kid's nanny. They've raised their kids and they're done, and they should enjoy life. I almost think it's rude to put one's parents in such a position.
In-awe, because a) the arrangements of the couples in this article are working out so well and b) the grandparents don't seem to find it physically impossible to keep up with the grandkids!
69
I have grandkids. I adore them, and indulge them, and love doing grandma things with them. When my son and his wife went on a long overdue "honeymoon vacation", my husband and I were delighted to drive down to their home, and babysit for a week. We could have even gone two weeks.
But RAISE THEIR KIDS FOR THEM? are you nuts? We are still working ourselves, and can't retire yet. And we raised our family. We looked forward for years to some "alone time" and a house not overrun by kids, their friends, homework, stinky gym clothes or a refrigerator picked clean by vultures.
When we DO retire, when we are 70 or 75 -- we plan to travel and take up hobbies, and relax. Not run after a toddler, even if we adore that toddler.
When I do have to babysit a child under age 4 or 5, frankly I find it exhausting. My energy level is lower than it used to be and I'm not quite 60. The thought of doing it at 75....well all I can say is bless that lady and she has won the genetic lotto. I couldn't do it full time anymore. Neither could most folks. Do you see any 75 nannies out there, advertising for work?
But RAISE THEIR KIDS FOR THEM? are you nuts? We are still working ourselves, and can't retire yet. And we raised our family. We looked forward for years to some "alone time" and a house not overrun by kids, their friends, homework, stinky gym clothes or a refrigerator picked clean by vultures.
When we DO retire, when we are 70 or 75 -- we plan to travel and take up hobbies, and relax. Not run after a toddler, even if we adore that toddler.
When I do have to babysit a child under age 4 or 5, frankly I find it exhausting. My energy level is lower than it used to be and I'm not quite 60. The thought of doing it at 75....well all I can say is bless that lady and she has won the genetic lotto. I couldn't do it full time anymore. Neither could most folks. Do you see any 75 nannies out there, advertising for work?
10
I love children, and always thought I'd love to work in a nursery or some similar place once I was retired. Well, surprise, surprise: I found little kids more boring and effortful than I'd realized. I guess I'd passed the point of wanting to spend lots of time with them. Some time? Absolutely. But not a lot of time.
1
This is NUTS, and there is no "trend" here at all, but a few isolated examples. The 1.2% of seniors who moved to the city could have come from NJ or Connecticut & previously been commuters to city jobs. The author is cherry picking a handful of examples.
A person over 70 who relocates from a warm climate like Florida to a cold, wretched climate like NYC -- with icy sidewalks, no ability to own a car, and rent that is roughly 10 times higher -- is insane. I can't think of it more politely than that. One fall on icy sidewalks, and a broken hip at that age, and you go straight into nursing care (which is also 3 times as costly in NYC if not more). That isn't even considering the taxes!
Every person I ever knew who retired to Florida or California or another warm climate adored it, and would never, ever move back to the frozen north.
That isn't even considering that it is unfair and even cruel to expect a 75 year old to be able to keep up with a toddler, or be your UNPAID nanny. Nobody would go out and hire a 75 year old nanny! Most seniors I know want to use their healthiest senior years to travel, relax, enjoy hobbies -- not raise their grandkids. I wouldn't have LET my elderly parents do this!
I have to wonder seriously about the financial acumen of the lady who sold a paid-off $100K home in a warm climate, to pay over $3000 to live in New York. That is a 1000% increase (at least) in her costs. Who can afford that? Do her kids pay her rent, to get the free babysitting?
A person over 70 who relocates from a warm climate like Florida to a cold, wretched climate like NYC -- with icy sidewalks, no ability to own a car, and rent that is roughly 10 times higher -- is insane. I can't think of it more politely than that. One fall on icy sidewalks, and a broken hip at that age, and you go straight into nursing care (which is also 3 times as costly in NYC if not more). That isn't even considering the taxes!
Every person I ever knew who retired to Florida or California or another warm climate adored it, and would never, ever move back to the frozen north.
That isn't even considering that it is unfair and even cruel to expect a 75 year old to be able to keep up with a toddler, or be your UNPAID nanny. Nobody would go out and hire a 75 year old nanny! Most seniors I know want to use their healthiest senior years to travel, relax, enjoy hobbies -- not raise their grandkids. I wouldn't have LET my elderly parents do this!
I have to wonder seriously about the financial acumen of the lady who sold a paid-off $100K home in a warm climate, to pay over $3000 to live in New York. That is a 1000% increase (at least) in her costs. Who can afford that? Do her kids pay her rent, to get the free babysitting?
195
So many fierce opinions. So little data. My interviews with 75 women all over the U.S. who are fully engaged in their grandchildren's lives echo the attitudes of the grandparents quoted in this article regardless of geography, class, or race. Sure, this story profiles a privileged few, but they are, in fact, part of a trend; it's happening all over the U.S., regardless of wealth. A national childcare crisis forces perfectly mature parents to ask for help from elders. It’s patronizing toward elders to assume that they are being forced into this role, or cannot handle it, or are better off sitting by a pool than engaging with real life. The grandparents who sign on for childcare are the lucky ones healthy & energetic enough for the job; the families doing this are the lucky ones harmonious enough to sustain it. All the research on aging says that the best way to stay healthy, active and happy in retirement is to be fully engaged with contemporary life and to feel needed and purposeful. Without ignoring the economic struggles most families and elders face, we can appreciate the satisfaction that comes with having adult children who want you in their lives and trust you with their children, not to mention the joy that comes with finding that, at 65 or 70, you have the strength, vigor, and humor to care for grandchildren. We don't need non-grandparents telling us what to think or feel or do. We've earned the right to choose this.
14
IMO most old people should NOT be driving. Ever driven in FL?? an absolute nightmare...
Travel can be very hard on oldsters BTW -- and so what... if someone wants to spend his money on rent why complain. PS London is even more expensive and Paris ain't cheap -- nor is it that elderly/disabled friendly.
Aren't your parents old enough to figure out for themselves what they want to do... or are you worried about your inheritance?? I would leave you 5K and the rest goes to charity or I spend it all.
Travel can be very hard on oldsters BTW -- and so what... if someone wants to spend his money on rent why complain. PS London is even more expensive and Paris ain't cheap -- nor is it that elderly/disabled friendly.
Aren't your parents old enough to figure out for themselves what they want to do... or are you worried about your inheritance?? I would leave you 5K and the rest goes to charity or I spend it all.
11
I agree with you 100%! I grew up in a New York apartment and at around age 30, I moved to a suburb of San Francisco and never missed New York. Now I am in my mid-70's and a grandmother of two young boys. Although I love them dearly, I would never move to a place with a cold climate to be a free nanny. I really feel for the grandma in her mid 70's in the 3rd floor walkup. Does she drag groceries in a shopping cart up three flights after chasing a toddler all day?
7
Sounds good to me. From the 1940s through the 2000s, my family pretty much all lived next-door, across the street, and around the corner from one another. Aunts and uncles, cousins, and grandparents were always around, with their doors for the most part unlocked (especially in those early decades), and simply stayed around until they began to die, one by one.
In our family, the adults all felt free to tell us not to make a racket, not to trespass in the neighbors' gardens, and not to run into the street after errant balls. It made for a safer and more orderly environment.
These grandparents' uprooting themselves to help out with toddlers is a good thing for all concerned.
(And, to inject one note regarding its benefit to the rest of us: Perhaps we won't have to endure for much longer the poor behavior of those children whose overworked parents are loath to control them. Restaurants might be quieter, and the streets of Brooklyn less rife with careening scooters.)
In our family, the adults all felt free to tell us not to make a racket, not to trespass in the neighbors' gardens, and not to run into the street after errant balls. It made for a safer and more orderly environment.
These grandparents' uprooting themselves to help out with toddlers is a good thing for all concerned.
(And, to inject one note regarding its benefit to the rest of us: Perhaps we won't have to endure for much longer the poor behavior of those children whose overworked parents are loath to control them. Restaurants might be quieter, and the streets of Brooklyn less rife with careening scooters.)
23
Sure they did, and that's lovely. But did they pay the equivalent of $3000 a month -- for a tiny, one room walk-up studio? At age 75? or did they own their own home or large apartment? or have rent control?
Imagine all those relatives, all paying $3000 a month. That's something like $30K going to landlords. A MONTH. And that is why it doesn't happen in NYC.
Imagine all those relatives, all paying $3000 a month. That's something like $30K going to landlords. A MONTH. And that is why it doesn't happen in NYC.
4
Relatives or not, I suspect the safer, more orderly environment was due to the presence of an adult or adults in the neighborhood at all times.
3
Concerned, I wasn't talking about prices.
Besides, those relatives who owned their own homes made a lot less money in those days; and when they finally paid off their thirty-year mortgages, they celebrated. I remember my uncle, in his late sixties by then, standing on his porch and waving because he'd finally paid off his mortgage. It was a big deal. Just as big a deal then as now.
As for my relatives who rented apartments, they might have begun fairly low, but for elderly people on fixed, small incomes, those incremental increases over a sixty-year tenancy ate into Social Security and whatever savings there were.
Now Carol, having "an adult or adults in the neighborhood at all times" can be a mixed blessing. You mean people who didn't go off to work? Nowadays, at least where I live, they could very well be drug dealers standing around. Or maybe undercover cops. A different world altogether.
Besides, those relatives who owned their own homes made a lot less money in those days; and when they finally paid off their thirty-year mortgages, they celebrated. I remember my uncle, in his late sixties by then, standing on his porch and waving because he'd finally paid off his mortgage. It was a big deal. Just as big a deal then as now.
As for my relatives who rented apartments, they might have begun fairly low, but for elderly people on fixed, small incomes, those incremental increases over a sixty-year tenancy ate into Social Security and whatever savings there were.
Now Carol, having "an adult or adults in the neighborhood at all times" can be a mixed blessing. You mean people who didn't go off to work? Nowadays, at least where I live, they could very well be drug dealers standing around. Or maybe undercover cops. A different world altogether.
Good luck with the taxes. And wait 'til the claustrophobia sets in.
18
I'm still gobsmacked at the lady who sold her (probably) 2000 square foot, paid off, one-floor ranch home (ideally suited to the elderly) in a warm climate (ideally suited to the elderly) and moved into what was probably a 300 square foot studio for $3000 a month. That makes sense in WHAT universe?
10
To many of us, it's about quality of life, not weather, and paying more to live in a quality environment is worth it. Spend a full year living is Florida and you'll see what I mean)
4
New York is our Florida. We moved here, not for grandchildren (they are in New Hampshire), but because of the long winters in the Adirondacks, where we were living. Up there, we had to drive everywhere; here, our cell phones tell us that we walk two miles a day.
We now live in a small apartment near Central Park, and walk with a NY Road Runners senior walking group; some of those people have become new friends. I've been coming to the city all my life, first with my parents, later in college and then with my husband and children. I feel lucky to be able to do this.
Of course, it remains to be seen what will happen as we continue to "age in place." That's another chapter of the story.
We now live in a small apartment near Central Park, and walk with a NY Road Runners senior walking group; some of those people have become new friends. I've been coming to the city all my life, first with my parents, later in college and then with my husband and children. I feel lucky to be able to do this.
Of course, it remains to be seen what will happen as we continue to "age in place." That's another chapter of the story.
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