Wow. Brooklyn (where else?) Goldman banker concerned by Fox Sports sponsorship on the shirt of his little Tarquin or Milo?
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
5
"Talk about the pot calling the kettle black."
Hardly. Do you imagine that bankers walk around with "Goldman, Sachs" stitched onto the backs of their suits?
And unless it has changed dramatically since last I was there, I'm sure that Westchester has more than its share of little Tarquins and Milos.
Hardly. Do you imagine that bankers walk around with "Goldman, Sachs" stitched onto the backs of their suits?
And unless it has changed dramatically since last I was there, I'm sure that Westchester has more than its share of little Tarquins and Milos.
2
former banker, current math teacher.
2
I wonder if any of these parents send their kids to charter schools, which are giant beneficiaries of Rupert Murdoch. Or perhaps they don't mind taking the money as long as they don't have to think too hard about how it was made?
1
"I wonder if any of these parents send their kids to charter schools"
Actually, these are the people most likely to support and defend the public school system. Charter schools are for free-market types who think even basic education should be a for-profit enterprise.
Actually, these are the people most likely to support and defend the public school system. Charter schools are for free-market types who think even basic education should be a for-profit enterprise.
1
"That Fox Sports, which broadcasts soccer, is not the same thing as Fox News has made little difference. Nor has the fact that some of the distressed parents have presumably consumed hours of “Glee,” or “Empire,” for instance, on the Fox network."
These are the same hipsters who are label-obsessed and superficial in other aspects of the their life, so I'm not surprised that they are ignorant and over-reactionary. Even worse, these are the same people that displaced black people from their neighborhoods and are ignorant of how they hurt the poor:
http://everydayfeminism.com/2014/09/gentrification-communities-of-color/
These are the same hipsters who are label-obsessed and superficial in other aspects of the their life, so I'm not surprised that they are ignorant and over-reactionary. Even worse, these are the same people that displaced black people from their neighborhoods and are ignorant of how they hurt the poor:
http://everydayfeminism.com/2014/09/gentrification-communities-of-color/
1
Half the country votes democrat and half republican, which means at least half the country has no problem with a Fox logo. More importantly, the vast majority of parents beyond the privileged one half of one percent in Brooklyn are probably quite happy to have a corporate sponsor underwrite some of the cost of team jerseys. Now they know how many of us feel about all the leftist propaganda that comes home from school in our kid's backpacks.
2
"Now they know how many of us feel about all the leftist propaganda that comes home from school in our kid's backpacks."
Your state, Texas, requires very "special" textbooks indeed to avoid offending the sensibilities of those who don't approve of certain inconvenient facts of science and history. Eventually your kids' backpacks are likely to contain little more than a Bible and a gun.
Your state, Texas, requires very "special" textbooks indeed to avoid offending the sensibilities of those who don't approve of certain inconvenient facts of science and history. Eventually your kids' backpacks are likely to contain little more than a Bible and a gun.
8
It is, on the most generous view, tactless for the central organization to proceed to accept this form of sponsorship without thorough consultation and at least willingness to consider allowing opting-out. After all, the organization needs volunteer support and not only financial support. That no such consultation or advance disclosure occurred suggests to me that the central organization knew it was likely to incur resistance and wished to preempt it. Whether this was so becomes a question as to its good faith.
1
What a non-issue. So you're criticizing parents for thinking critically about their values? The nerve of some people!
If the tone of the piece is that this is not all that important, why is this columnist bothering to cover it?
If the tone of the piece is that this is not all that important, why is this columnist bothering to cover it?
1
Politics aside, it's important to help kids from families without enough money to pay for soccer fees. It benefits us all when every kid has the chance to play.
And it might improve our National Teams too (though our women seem to be doing OK).
And it might improve our National Teams too (though our women seem to be doing OK).
2
Gross, if it was for altruistic reasons Fox would have just purchased the shirts for the soccer team there would be no need for a logo at all, they would just donate them, but it's about advertising and branding. Schools, let alone children's uniforms are no place for it. It's disgusting in its subterfuge.
9
Fox Sports actually broadcast the entire Women's World Cup Soccer matches in prime time.(!!) So, let them use some of that revenue to support your soccer teams. It says Fox Sports and not Fox News.
5
I am on the board of a large AYSO region, and protested against the imposition of this logo.
Please note that at the region level we are all volunteers, many of us devoting hundreds of hours a year to our league. The national organization, which essentially provides us nothing but overpriced insurance, enters into arrangements with third parties that in many cases (Herbalife) have zero connection with soccer.
They talk about scholarships? Seriously? They don't offer scholarships! We do! All finances are managed at the regional level, and we factor the cost of scholarships into the registration fee we charge everyone who can afford it. No child is ever turned away. Their training materials? Hopelessly amateurish. Without volunteer instructors, none of our coaches and referees would be trained.
Then they have the chutzpah to turn our kids into moving billboards. Our region uses jerseys that have their own logo, add the AYSO logo, and now this Fox logo, and the jerseys look ridiculous. With the smallest kids, aged 4, all you can are logos.
AYSO has a long, long history of exploiting its volunteers, without whom it could not operate. Dealing with the national office is a painful experience for anyone who needs to do so. But until this year, they did not exploit our kids.
Disgusting.
Please note that at the region level we are all volunteers, many of us devoting hundreds of hours a year to our league. The national organization, which essentially provides us nothing but overpriced insurance, enters into arrangements with third parties that in many cases (Herbalife) have zero connection with soccer.
They talk about scholarships? Seriously? They don't offer scholarships! We do! All finances are managed at the regional level, and we factor the cost of scholarships into the registration fee we charge everyone who can afford it. No child is ever turned away. Their training materials? Hopelessly amateurish. Without volunteer instructors, none of our coaches and referees would be trained.
Then they have the chutzpah to turn our kids into moving billboards. Our region uses jerseys that have their own logo, add the AYSO logo, and now this Fox logo, and the jerseys look ridiculous. With the smallest kids, aged 4, all you can are logos.
AYSO has a long, long history of exploiting its volunteers, without whom it could not operate. Dealing with the national office is a painful experience for anyone who needs to do so. But until this year, they did not exploit our kids.
Disgusting.
24
Hard to believe this is an issue. Who cares? The kids have uniforms, a place to play, and volunteers to coach. If the organization hates fox sports, then don't take their money. Pretty simple.
1
As Rosie has proven, the is a very simple, very public and very embarrassing solution here. Grab a Sharpie and black that logo out!
6
I took a break from studying Paradise Lost to read this.
Coincidentally there is this fabulous conclave of the impotent and complaining devils at the start of Book 2 railing against their inescapable prison of hell.
And they say classic literature is no longer relevant or even dead.
Coincidentally there is this fabulous conclave of the impotent and complaining devils at the start of Book 2 railing against their inescapable prison of hell.
And they say classic literature is no longer relevant or even dead.
5
Doesn't get much better than John Milton.
1
It's sad to see corp logos, or any form of advertising, tacked onto children's uniforms, but especially AYSO jerseys. Despite constant adult pressure, most kids just want to play & aren't trying to reach "the next level". At AYSO events, they also see how "many hands make less work" as their parents lead by example to donate their time to administrate, coach, referee, line fields, etc. This grass roots community approach reduces the need to attract corp money and influence. The lessons of sweat equity verses pay to play are life long. I've watched my 3 sons give back as a result: they all played AYSO soccer while growing up & then on their own initiative, youth coached AYSO teams while in high school & away at college. To me, that sense of community is the real beauty of the game. Hopefully AYSO won't lose its way.
17
Wow! Could you be more self important.These people may live in Brooklyn but they ain't from Brooklyn.The blue collar ethnic melting pot of my youth has been taken over by investment bankers turned do gooders.
5
"investment bankers turned do gooders."
I know how you feel. What could be more offensive than somebody trying to do good.
I know how you feel. What could be more offensive than somebody trying to do good.
2
yeah, investment bankers turned do gooders are the worst!
All politics is local. I lived in Park Slope for 15 years; my two sons grew up playing in AYSO. The vibe in the Slope has always been progressive, especially where kids are concerned, and putting a FOX logo on the soccer jersey is the equivalent of making Ted Cruz the Brooklyn regional AYSO Commissioner. Incredibly dumb, and automatically controversial. The backlash is understandable.
23
All those people are free to open their checkbooks and buy thousands of jerseys out of their own pockets.
I wonder how much money this is to AYSO and what they did without it before?
Local sponsors being supported by a logo on the jersey is one thing but this is clearly just going out for the money and doing whatever "they" want so you get it.
Local sponsors being supported by a logo on the jersey is one thing but this is clearly just going out for the money and doing whatever "they" want so you get it.
5
Keep "The Fox" out of not only hen houses but school houses and off youth sports fields as well.
Where Ruppert goes turmoil follows.
Where Ruppert goes turmoil follows.
17
Former Goldman Sachs Employees, Architects likely designing soul sucking condos and there ilk, are complaining about corporate sponsorship. Typical behavior from the intolerant legions that live in Park Slope. Thanks for shining a light on these people.
11
Children are a very desirable demographic for advertisers. Children do not understand that advertising and marketing are intent upon selling products. Accordingly it is more difficult for corporations to directly target them via advertising.
These logos are programming your children to be favorably disposed towards Fox Sports They will FOREVER associate Fox Sports with their wonderful memories of playing soccer with their friends. Even as adults, they will be favorably disposed towards Fox Sports which will impede their ability to make an informed decision.
I am disturbed that in 20 years, when these children take on the mantle of civic responsibility, they will be less likely to question the intent of this multi-national corporation--or any other corporations that saturate their formative years with well-researched advertising and marketing messages.
The reason that several European countries now forbid advertising and marketing to children isn't about the company or the content of the message, but because subjecting immature minds to advertising and marketing campaigns is essentially brain washing.
These logos are programming your children to be favorably disposed towards Fox Sports They will FOREVER associate Fox Sports with their wonderful memories of playing soccer with their friends. Even as adults, they will be favorably disposed towards Fox Sports which will impede their ability to make an informed decision.
I am disturbed that in 20 years, when these children take on the mantle of civic responsibility, they will be less likely to question the intent of this multi-national corporation--or any other corporations that saturate their formative years with well-researched advertising and marketing messages.
The reason that several European countries now forbid advertising and marketing to children isn't about the company or the content of the message, but because subjecting immature minds to advertising and marketing campaigns is essentially brain washing.
25
Fox broadcasts live soccer including the women's World Cup finals pumping tens of millions into the sport, but they shouldn't sponsor a kid's soccer league? It's a sports channel, not MSNBC.
1
What a load of nonsense. Half the kids who enjoy soccer outside of AYSO wear either Chelsea or Barcelona shirts, sponsored or financed by Samsung, a Russian oligarch and/or the Qatar Foundation.
So what if a sports network is promoting itself to young soccer players? There's a thousand things much more disturbing out there.
So what if a sports network is promoting itself to young soccer players? There's a thousand things much more disturbing out there.
2
Just wear them inside out.
8
I think wearing them inside out would obscure their player number. Just grab a sharpie and decorate over the offensive logo. That sends a bigger message anyway.
Life is skirmish, large and small. Some pick their fights, just as others need everything to be a situation. FOX is evil but in comparison to what? At least we know who they are. CNN and MSNBC shape-shift and have become all things to all people in the hopes of reversing irrelevancy. Network nightly news has become "America's Favorite Viral Videos" amidst similar hopes for profit. The fights worth winning seem more about greed and less about dogma. We the left of center forget this at our own peril as we win the skirmishes over fashion and we lose the larger war.
Hilarious. Just another bunch of open minded liberals free from prejudice. How do these people not realize their own hypocrisy?
And to get a nine year old girl to claim she is fighting "conservative media imperialism" is too rich? More like parroting what her parents have told her.
And can those people really be upset about "conservative media imperialism" and read completely bias article in this newspaper every morning?
And to get a nine year old girl to claim she is fighting "conservative media imperialism" is too rich? More like parroting what her parents have told her.
And can those people really be upset about "conservative media imperialism" and read completely bias article in this newspaper every morning?
8
kenny, that part was a joke.
6
Like most conservatives Kenny has no sense of humor. Did he really think that Rosie is fighting "conservative media imperialism." Wow!
3
@Grace Brophy
What you call a "joke" is actually the beginning of brainwashing. That is why the hipsters would have loved labels that said "Vegans for Peace!"
What you call a "joke" is actually the beginning of brainwashing. That is why the hipsters would have loved labels that said "Vegans for Peace!"
Bernie (commenter) states the problem succinctly: "Corporate sponsorship is the way of the world now."
A complex issue, for sure, but perhaps the thrust of the problem is "what does sponsorship get the sponsor?"
That, imo, is the problem. Sponsorship ought not (and does not) entitle the sponsor to some sense of ownership unless said sponsor agrees to some level of responsibility, of culpability, and that will not happen (think USPS or Nike and Lance Armstrong). Apparently, though, it is also not a simple case of "donating" money to (here) a team so they can continue to function at a certain standard/level of efficiency. But why is it not that simple?
Because sponsors demand recognition in certain ways for their sponsorship. That has that scent that follows acts such as bribery, political "gift giving", yet not quite to the level of extortion. Perhaps it is just good old American exploitation of the needs of another, viz. Good Business?
It stinks, even if it is "the way of the world now."
And by the way, history is full of "ways of the world," and most of them were bad ways (if not evil).
A complex issue, for sure, but perhaps the thrust of the problem is "what does sponsorship get the sponsor?"
That, imo, is the problem. Sponsorship ought not (and does not) entitle the sponsor to some sense of ownership unless said sponsor agrees to some level of responsibility, of culpability, and that will not happen (think USPS or Nike and Lance Armstrong). Apparently, though, it is also not a simple case of "donating" money to (here) a team so they can continue to function at a certain standard/level of efficiency. But why is it not that simple?
Because sponsors demand recognition in certain ways for their sponsorship. That has that scent that follows acts such as bribery, political "gift giving", yet not quite to the level of extortion. Perhaps it is just good old American exploitation of the needs of another, viz. Good Business?
It stinks, even if it is "the way of the world now."
And by the way, history is full of "ways of the world," and most of them were bad ways (if not evil).
8
The Fox Media empire is very diverse. But the fact of the matter is that the name "Fox" ultimately ties into one of the worst, most deceitful, and dishonest news sources on the planet. That is Fox News' fault. They willfully mislead and provoke fear and unrest based upon a false narrative that they create, and have been under investigation internationally on several issues.
I would not allow my child to be exposed to what appears to be a subtle exposure to that corporate name. In the least, I would remove the logo from the shirt myself before my child wears it.
I would not allow my child to be exposed to what appears to be a subtle exposure to that corporate name. In the least, I would remove the logo from the shirt myself before my child wears it.
22
For me, the problem is that the kids are WEARING the logos. It brands them. I'd have no problem with a nice signboard at every game listing and thanking the corporate sponsors. But leave the kids' bodies alone!
22
Kid's have been wearing logos or company names on sports jerseys for several decades. This isn't about sponsorship, it's about leftist parents disliking the politics of the sponsor.
1
I am sorry that the article mentions Fox' ownership and politics. Sure there may be some parents whose objections are primarily against the sponsor. There are others who object to a national decision to sell the space on the chests of thousands of young kids across the country. The article does point out general lack of objection for local sponsors in the past. I agree that the line is not clear but the differences are real.
So Fox is donating money for scholarships, and people who can afford to live on the Upper West Side and in Park Slope object to it? Interestingly, they don't seem to object to the money, just to the logo. What hypocrites!
7
Fox is "donating" nothing. They are paying for advertising space on the chests of children across the country.
Sure looks like the issue is the perceived conservative view of Fox Sports. Wonder what the reaction would have been to CNN or NPR on the jerseys?
6
Look at it in terms of power. Local sponsors must accept the AYSO as it is and simply support it. Global sponsors corrupt the decision making process such that AYSO must bend to the Global sopnsors' needs. Fox needs advertising: children don't.
12
Who cares? We value money over principles these days, don't we?
1
My kids played AYSO soccer for years, and I am very much on the liberal spectrum. But I can't help but wonder if Mr. Stutt and the other parents who find the Fox sponsorship so objectionable would have reacted the same way if NPR, The Nation, or ACLU were the sponsor.
6
I coach my son's AYSO team. It's a great organization, and if selling a few square inches on his jersey to Fox Sports will help it to continue its excellent training programs assist those in need, I don't see a problem.
Corporate sponsorship is the way of the world now. Just look at any professional soccer jersey and you'll see the team's name dwarfed by the sponsor's logo. Our job as coaches and parents is to teach our kids the value of practice, team work, and giving everyone a chance and to save our outrage for things that really matter.
Corporate sponsorship is the way of the world now. Just look at any professional soccer jersey and you'll see the team's name dwarfed by the sponsor's logo. Our job as coaches and parents is to teach our kids the value of practice, team work, and giving everyone a chance and to save our outrage for things that really matter.
31
You miss the point of advertising.
4
@Bernie, you mean somehow you can endorse honesty while wearing the logo and taking money from an institution that has helped prevent action on climate change, cheerlead the war in Iraq, gives platforms for Dick cheney and Mike huckabee to spout their bigotry and warlordism? Your children must read pretty thin books to have their world views so exclusively tailored!
8
Just because it is "the way of your world" it does not make it right.
10
What attracted me to AYSO ten or more years ago, and kept me involved as a coach, referee, and most recently regional coordinator, was the fact that it is top-to-bottom a volunteer organization. Nobody, not even the CEO, gets a dime. I was pretty disconcerted, therefore, to learn that my volunteer efforts would be devoted, in part, to promoting an unabashedly for-profit entity. It totally upends the volunteer nature of the organization.
The ethics of placing corporate promotional material on an unwitting child is poor. Ironically, AYSO's own Safe Haven principles, with their focus on protecting children, could have helped to flag this as a form of abuse (it is exploitation) and killed the idea at its inception.
I resigned from my role as regional coordinator in Spring over this issue. AYSO does not need funds, it relies on the free labor provided by volunteers. It is these volunteers it needs to retain, and from whom it should elicit feedback before making unethical boneheaded decisions.
The ethics of placing corporate promotional material on an unwitting child is poor. Ironically, AYSO's own Safe Haven principles, with their focus on protecting children, could have helped to flag this as a form of abuse (it is exploitation) and killed the idea at its inception.
I resigned from my role as regional coordinator in Spring over this issue. AYSO does not need funds, it relies on the free labor provided by volunteers. It is these volunteers it needs to retain, and from whom it should elicit feedback before making unethical boneheaded decisions.
73
Whatever. I don't like Fox but this Never-Never land you describe that never needs a dollar doesn't exist anywhere or ever. Even "volunteers" that send the packages need to eat.
1
Revisiting this discussion I see many comments from people who don't seem to know much about AYSO. For example, the league has money. The fee for a playing season is $100 per child, which pays for a uniform, field permits, insurance ... everything but labor. If there are half a million kids registered and three playing seasons (Fall, Winter, Spring) that's a $150 Million yearly budget.
For 50 years AYSO has had enough money to run a national program. Suddenly, without warning or discussion, it sells prime advertising space for sponsorship money. If AYSO needed money, it never raised the issue. A vote by its thousands of volunteers (to raise its fee or sign on a sponsor) would have been a better way to resolve this presumed financial problem.
For 50 years AYSO has had enough money to run a national program. Suddenly, without warning or discussion, it sells prime advertising space for sponsorship money. If AYSO needed money, it never raised the issue. A vote by its thousands of volunteers (to raise its fee or sign on a sponsor) would have been a better way to resolve this presumed financial problem.
3
These folks sound just as intolerant as any fringe right-wingers out there.
29
Intolerance is a broad word.
There are some things we are willing to reasonably tolerate, some on which which we take a reasonable position not to tolerate and other things that are reasonable to question.
This sounds like one of those things which, for many reasons given in the article, is reasonable to question. Reasonable, civil people can disagree.
There are some things we are willing to reasonably tolerate, some on which which we take a reasonable position not to tolerate and other things that are reasonable to question.
This sounds like one of those things which, for many reasons given in the article, is reasonable to question. Reasonable, civil people can disagree.
2
Fox is Fox. Advertising any part of Fox is advertising Fox. Compartmentalizing Fox Sports and Fox News is akin to what Bellafante did in the column about Freedom From Religion Foundation (although that involved a mashup rather than a compartmentalization). In that piece, the writer tried to show how NYC having to foot the bill after the colored power free-for-all of Holi was the same as us having to underwrite the expenses of having a cleric in town who still publicly says women sin when they have abortions. Quite different, both in terms of the two religions' ideologies and the sizes of the bills. That one religion's activities cost the taxpayers money doesn't automatically excuse the colossal expenses of another's. Just like the fact that Fox Sports broadcasts soccer doesn't give Fox New Corp. a pass.
18
Extreme ideological readings will never serve youth sports well. AYSO fulfills -albeit imperfectly- an important role in promoting children's soccer, which equals promoting their health in an era of omnipresent little screens and sedentary habits.
Fox is a legit media conglomerate, in spite of the abhorrently regressive ideology of its news division . Any buck flowing from corporate pockets to children's physical activity is a buck well invested.
Or are the zealot parents going to object also to red Communist jerseys, Vatican yellow, ISIS black and McDonald's orange? Live and let live, and make sure as many kids as possible play soccer.
Fox is a legit media conglomerate, in spite of the abhorrently regressive ideology of its news division . Any buck flowing from corporate pockets to children's physical activity is a buck well invested.
Or are the zealot parents going to object also to red Communist jerseys, Vatican yellow, ISIS black and McDonald's orange? Live and let live, and make sure as many kids as possible play soccer.
7
GS: red, yellow, black and orange are colors, not corporate entities. That you associate them with Communism, the Vatican, ISIS and McDonalds is on you. I prefer to associate them with roses, daffodils, B.B. King and nectarines. I'm happy to have any member of my family wear those colors.
2
The more sports and physical activity kids can enjoy, the better, and there's no doubt organizing leagues cost money. it is not constructive to exercise an ideological censorship of sponsors and potential sponsors based on personal preferences. Agreeing or disagreeing with Fox -without a doubt a legitimate business- shouldn't be an excuse for not thanking it for funding AYSO.
18
My kids are in the Upper West Side AYSO league and I had the same reaction as these Brooklyn parents when the press release was emailed last Spring. It's particularly jarring given the way that AYSO claims to be committed to protecting the kids in every other way. There are AYSO rules and regulations to protect kids from concussions, dogs, pedophiles, lightning, hurt feelings and everything else. Yet somehow there is no desire to protect against corporate brainwashing. And if you've had a young child exposed to corporate sponsorship, commercials, billboards, jingles, etc. you'll understand that brainwashing is exactly what this is. I wrote a letter to AYSO when I heard of this sponsorship and received no response. It would be interesting to know how many complaints they've received and how they're responding.
This article is correct to point out the various grey areas. Local sponsorship seems more palatable even though the act is very similar. AYSO is providing many services that do come with significant cost. Still, in this case you have 500,000 kids at the stage in life where they are most ripe for advertisers being targeted by a global corporation. It just seems like a poor decision by AYSO which in this (and increasingly more cases) seems more interested in it's own growth than in the growth of the children it serves.
This article is correct to point out the various grey areas. Local sponsorship seems more palatable even though the act is very similar. AYSO is providing many services that do come with significant cost. Still, in this case you have 500,000 kids at the stage in life where they are most ripe for advertisers being targeted by a global corporation. It just seems like a poor decision by AYSO which in this (and increasingly more cases) seems more interested in it's own growth than in the growth of the children it serves.
60
I find Fox News odious, I'll establish that from the outset. But is it really rational to think your child will be brainwashed by a logo on a sports shirt? Come on. These people think Fox is lowbrow and it offends their sensibilities to see their unsullied Brooklyn child wearing it. Give me a break.
Actually, yes. It is an established fact that children are more susceptible to advertising than other age groups. Study after study shows children's inability to reliably differentiate between advertising and content as well as the permanence of impressions made during youth. This is why they are so tartgeted by adviertisers and why Fox Sports 1 would want to be on their shirts in the first place.
That is the story here, beginning, middle and end, no matter where you stand on the political spectrum. Advertising and corporate branding have crept into every corner of our lives, and even public broadcasting sells commercial time.
Don't let your child be just another medium to advertise on.