TOTALLY inappropriate for a FREE country
3
I'm fresh from a read of Ghettoside, an account of the agonies of black-on-black crime -- mainly homicide -- in Los Angeles. It made me ashamed to live in the city, even though the same conditions obtain elsewhere. It also made me proud to encounter good cops who take homicide with the seriousness and dedication it deserves. The author's premise is that there is too little law enforcement where blacks killing blacks is concerned.
So I see something potentially valuable in this approach if the notion is that police departments are going to take black homicide seriously, including taking steps to prevent it. And that may, yes, include specifically targeting the knuckleheads with guns who have made living poor and black in the US a horrorshow.
So I see something potentially valuable in this approach if the notion is that police departments are going to take black homicide seriously, including taking steps to prevent it. And that may, yes, include specifically targeting the knuckleheads with guns who have made living poor and black in the US a horrorshow.
4
Only 58 percent of homicides in Kansas City were solved or "cleared" in 2014, but by all means, please expend your energies on the nonsense that is "crime prevention."
The cycle of crime is interrupted by holding criminals accountable. With police so distracted with harassing prevention tactics they miss the opportunity to take actual murderers off the streets.
But then again, none of this is about fighting crime, it's about feeding the system.
The cycle of crime is interrupted by holding criminals accountable. With police so distracted with harassing prevention tactics they miss the opportunity to take actual murderers off the streets.
But then again, none of this is about fighting crime, it's about feeding the system.
2
Such predicative analysis largely rely upon scientific controlled behavior studies from large population groups. An example - studies concluded long ago that most lions and tigers will attack people if afforded the opportunity. This behavior is driven largely by instinct. However, it is not true that all lions and tigers will attack people if afforded the opportunity. They can be trained to defeat instinct behavior and not attack. These related studies are also extremely helpful in controlling predictive criminal behavior in America..
1
It should be evident to any thinking person that this is a constitutional violation and will, as always target people of color. I have no doubt that ACLU will be all over this. I am very appalled that the leadership in Mo. cannot see the predatory nature of this program.
2
What part of the Constitution do you find this in violation of? Or is that just a catch phrase for any action you disapprove of?
Where a predatory nature exists in in those at whom the program is named, those who prey on law abiding citizens for their own benefit. No where in the article was there any mention of anyone being convicted of a crime he did not commit. If you want to stay off the police radar, an excellent method is to obey the law.
Where a predatory nature exists in in those at whom the program is named, those who prey on law abiding citizens for their own benefit. No where in the article was there any mention of anyone being convicted of a crime he did not commit. If you want to stay off the police radar, an excellent method is to obey the law.
4
Round up the usual suspects! Saves time and just perpetuates the "thug" profile. Warranted or not.
1
Sounds like plain old common sense, in the vein of, "I smell a rat."
I agree that the use of the computer algorithm is a defense tool for the police against the guilty who adeptly use political correctness as a tool to deflect responsibility.
I agree that the use of the computer algorithm is a defense tool for the police against the guilty who adeptly use political correctness as a tool to deflect responsibility.
3
I think any pilot program should be used on our elected officials. What they "do" for us everyday can be construed as a crime these days.
This will last about as long as it takes for statistical data to tell us what we already know - that young black males commit a staggeringly disproportionate amount of crime, especially violent crime.
Then the program will be folded up, the data destroyed and everyone will pretend it never existed.
Then the program will be folded up, the data destroyed and everyone will pretend it never existed.
5
...but know this: Young males of all races commit the same amount and types of crimes. The only difference is the police don't arrest white males and pursue conviction with the same eagerness they do with males of color. Your ignorance and bias is showing, but no intelligence is detected.
2
Perhaps they should run that program on themselves to see which of them are more than likely going to abuse their authority.
They should clean their own back yard before they attempt to clean ours.
They should clean their own back yard before they attempt to clean ours.
5
An exercise in futility:
1. The probability of devising a method to predict who might commit a crime=0%.
2. The probability of a gun killing you at close range= 100%.
It's clear what to go after.
1. The probability of devising a method to predict who might commit a crime=0%.
2. The probability of a gun killing you at close range= 100%.
It's clear what to go after.
4
Your data is inaccurate. There are plenty of stories where criminals have attempted to use firearms at point blank range and the sidearm malfunctioned.
No reason to "go after guns"...it's the person holding the gun who decides whether or not he's going to be a criminal, not the sidearm itself.
No reason to "go after guns"...it's the person holding the gun who decides whether or not he's going to be a criminal, not the sidearm itself.
...that's a slight apples to orangutans comparison...
How so when there is no 100% chance of a lethal encounter with a "gun" as the original poster states?
Besides, the way I read it, anyone with "a gun" should be "gone after". If I am a gun owner, why should be "gone after" if I have committed no crime?
Besides, the way I read it, anyone with "a gun" should be "gone after". If I am a gun owner, why should be "gone after" if I have committed no crime?
1
Computer algorithms aren't necessary. The average high schooler looking at the criminal records of 50 convicted felons could predict those most likely to reoffend.
The purpose of the computers in the equation is to insulate the police from charges of racism. It won't work. Anyone who speaks about or acts upon the fact of high African-American crime rates will be called "racist."
The purpose of the computers in the equation is to insulate the police from charges of racism. It won't work. Anyone who speaks about or acts upon the fact of high African-American crime rates will be called "racist."
5
Hombre - "Anyone who speaks about or acts upon the fact of high African-American crime rates will be called "racist."
And that is why "predictive policing" will never work! It's not politically correct.
And that is why "predictive policing" will never work! It's not politically correct.
3
They don't need an expensive program to do this. I'd just about bet anyone reading this could tell you who is most likely to commit crimes. Crimes of rape, violent crimes, crimes of aggression... Hmmm. Yep I would venture to say anyone in the world from any country could tell you exactly who is most likely to commit those crimes in the future any time you want. - bodabing - no charge.
2
And can you tell us who is most likely to commit a mass murder at a school or movie theater, and maybe we could start gathering them up and threatening them with incarceration. And after you do that, maybe you could tell us who is most likely to cause the next economic meltdown, and maybe we could start gathering them up and threaten them with incarceration. Not only would you end all these crimes, but you would reverse the disproportionate number of minorities filling our prisons.
2
"Domestic assault charges are pending against him after his girlfriend accused him of choking her and hitting her head against a door last year, according to court documents."
Poor guy.
Poor guy.
1
If they were serious, they would place policemen 24/7 at every bankers desk and every traders desk and the most serious crimes of the past decade could have been prevented.
Instead, they focus on the poor and downtrodden, which is what police forces have always done - ride herd. Given the racial history and insane number of peaceful kids locked up for smoking pot, they will just double down making those people's lives miserable, while the real criminals continue to assault our civil society and rob us all blind in broad daylight.
It doesn't take a computer algorithm to see that coming.
Instead, they focus on the poor and downtrodden, which is what police forces have always done - ride herd. Given the racial history and insane number of peaceful kids locked up for smoking pot, they will just double down making those people's lives miserable, while the real criminals continue to assault our civil society and rob us all blind in broad daylight.
It doesn't take a computer algorithm to see that coming.
6
Depending on criteria to decide those likely to commit crimes, this could be a good idea.
To what extent, however, could police act?
1 arrest them
2 intercept their electronic or other communication
3 openly follow them around
4 make them the focus of attention (with TV cameras)
5 otherwise harass them
With only an unsupported grading as likely to commit crime 1 & 2 would divert resources from honest enforcement of law and order. 3, 4, & 5 would consume those resources and give some police the wrong notion that such measures were powerful indeed.
To what extent, however, could police act?
1 arrest them
2 intercept their electronic or other communication
3 openly follow them around
4 make them the focus of attention (with TV cameras)
5 otherwise harass them
With only an unsupported grading as likely to commit crime 1 & 2 would divert resources from honest enforcement of law and order. 3, 4, & 5 would consume those resources and give some police the wrong notion that such measures were powerful indeed.
1
You don't need a program. Boys raised in a home where the father was replaced with a welfare check, and their brothers and sisters are from different fathers replaced by different welfare checks.
Sounds politically incorrect, but there it is.
Sounds politically incorrect, but there it is.
5
The only way we'll know if the program works, is if Obama, Pelosi and Reid's names pop up. If not, the program surely needs a bit of tweaking!
Elected officials. That's almost a guarantee.
1
Go into certain darker sections of town looking for it. The FBI statistics give a good indicator as to where to look, sadly. Is this what Dr. King and Medgar Evers died for?
So it's ok to predict criminal potential, but it's not ok to effectively address the real causes of those abandoned to survival at any cost through bad public policies? Have we truly become this disconnected from one another? Are we incapable of seeing a culture that accepts the rates of poverty, mental illness, inadequate education and opportunities as simply collateral consequence of hyper-capitalism. The idea that we create then condemn the victims of our indifference to the control of policing is immoral, classist, racist and unsustainable. This is outrageously bad public policy. It is also a revealing in the starkest terms of our lack of concern for human lives as we throw away millions like refuse, so that those who seek to profit from this theft of human Liberty can thrive. God help us.
2
Ahhh... "Pre-Crime", I think I saw a movie about that!
2
Such programs often confuse prediction with causation, and make inappropriate assumptions about the latter based on the former. They also bring with them a package of other services, like assistance finding housing, and then attribute the success of the program to the predictive algorithm rather than the wrap-around services. For some additional information about the public health consequences of mass incarceration, check out this slide deck we put together in the social epidemiology group at Columbia. http://blogs.cuit.columbia.edu/socialepicluster/mass-incarceration-info-...
1
Kansas City right? A democrat government right? Isn't it republicans from whom we are constantly told to expect this sort of repressive public policy?
2
This program won't last long.
The computer has selected you for termination....
2
I can predict who is going to commit crimes without a program. If they were raised in the generational welfare system, I can almost guarantee they'll commit crimes.
6
Why not an algorithm for wall street or white collar criminals, too? Let's include those whom have a history of huge financial risks, have strip clubs on their credit cards, have lots of debt, lawsuits against them, etc...just take that bernie madoff guy and a bunch other crooks, and start profiling them, too?
And why not an algorithm for bad cops while we are at it? Those with prior complaints, supervisors that have complaints, too to demonstrate impunity, domestic violence incidents, etc?
Bet if we made other groups like that a pre-condition for the "complete" predictive policing, this program would go away real fast!
And why not an algorithm for bad cops while we are at it? Those with prior complaints, supervisors that have complaints, too to demonstrate impunity, domestic violence incidents, etc?
Bet if we made other groups like that a pre-condition for the "complete" predictive policing, this program would go away real fast!
5
Mainly becasue they don't kill people.
there is a finite (that means limited) resources and I would rather lose $10,000 then get killed.
there is a finite (that means limited) resources and I would rather lose $10,000 then get killed.
It is called profiling and has been used by the FBI for years. It is illegal because it works!
1
Minority Report?
6
Why don't we just harass everyone...that should stop crime.
Because we know the only thing stopping criminals from being model citizens is their lack of knowledge that they might get caught and serve time...
Because we know the only thing stopping criminals from being model citizens is their lack of knowledge that they might get caught and serve time...
1
Of course blacks commit more crimes. We could predict that by looking at what we define as a crime.
Loitering? A crime performed by people with nothing to do and nowhere to go, i.e. young blacks. Gouging the needy with obscene interest and fees on payday loans and buy-here-pay-here auto sames? Not a crime, just being a good capitalist. The list goes on and on...
Loitering? A crime performed by people with nothing to do and nowhere to go, i.e. young blacks. Gouging the needy with obscene interest and fees on payday loans and buy-here-pay-here auto sames? Not a crime, just being a good capitalist. The list goes on and on...
5
"Domestic assault charges are pending against him after his girlfriend accused him of choking her and hitting her head against a door last year"
How is that ever not defined as a crime?
How is that ever not defined as a crime?
1
This is ominous for ALL Americans. Crime profiling as a business model? What could go wrong? Ask all those incarcerated for crimes they did not commit. The police need to get back to real police work instead of believing all the cop shows on television. WE must demand it.
2
99% of incarcerated convicts claim to be innocent.
basic associations to be programmed in:
Person of Middle Eastern background with interest in electronics- Bomber
Person of Asian background with interest in science- Spy
Person of African background with anything- Thief
Person of White European background with arsenal- Patriot
Person of Middle Eastern background with interest in electronics- Bomber
Person of Asian background with interest in science- Spy
Person of African background with anything- Thief
Person of White European background with arsenal- Patriot
7
We Americans have lost the vision of what policing should be. It is not the number of arrests, it is not the strength of the armaments, it is not the brute force. Constructive policing should be the elevation of the positive aspects of our society. It should start in the recognition and help offered to families in poverty and emotional distress. It should be nourished in the equal educational opportunities to spark children's imaginations to possibilities. It should be recognizing that teenagers, with their abundance of energy as they cross the threshold into maturity, need guidance, need an outlet for their voices, and need direction -- not more surveillance that is based on the assumptions that they will do harm. Our families, neighborhoods, towns and cities are all responsible for raising the next generation. An authoritative police state that is not invested in the success of our youth will not be able to provide the nurture and environment to guide their paths. We do not need more police "authority". We need to get back to the police and communities working together for the safety and well-being of all.
I know this sounds a bit "Utopian", but we are in an era that our President is where he is because of grassroots support that built into a national mandate. We CAN do this without resorting to pre-emptive police control.
I know this sounds a bit "Utopian", but we are in an era that our President is where he is because of grassroots support that built into a national mandate. We CAN do this without resorting to pre-emptive police control.
1
It is more than a bit utopian, it is utopian in the extreme and while you may think your idealism is doing good. In reality it accomplishes nothing. Thr President you speak of has made a hash of things, primarily because he did not and does not have the abilities necessary for the job. But he made a nice speech and that is where your idealism leads.
3
My comment was not about the President, it was about starting large projects in small ways and about the need to have a broader view of saving our youth from going down criminal paths.
I would say that Mr. Brown would be well-served to consult an attorney regarding defamation proceedings against Kansas City police.
1
He was involved in a murder, is that equivalent to littering in your mind?
2
Do we really need a "program"?
I can pick'em out.
I can pick'em out.
1
This sounds like the cops already have their usual suspects, now all they need is a crime to attach to each of them. How is this an improvement in police tactics? Good grief.
5
The Police need to self reflect. Enough said.
View each person as an individual, then put them in jail.
Fascinating concept. I look forward with great anticipation to the announcement of the predictive algorithm focused on financial misconduct (worthless securitized mortgages, anyone?). It will be interesting to see how widely that approach is adopted.
7
I liked this program the first time I heard about it, when it was called PROFILING.
2
Yep. If it works, it works.
It used to be called profiling. Before that it was simply called good police work.
3
15 years for having a bullet in their pocket? How can you use prior issues to justify such sentences. Did they pay their debt to society with their prior sentences? Yes, so that's it. It cannot be used to justify current prosecutions. Plus look at some of the criteria they are using; broken family structure, family members and friends with criminal pasts (again, if you have paid the "debt to society" that is that), drug offences (what about pot? Does that count towards the police harassing citizens?). Holding the poor hostage for who they associate with, when many of those in poor neighborhoods have no options of who is around is a terrible idea. This whole concept is a terrible idea and flies in the face of the constitution and the avowed aim of what we call our criminal justice system. The way to fight crime is to provide economic and educational support for our young children. That is where you will defeat crime.
5
Just love that term "paid their debt to society". While I usually strive to follow Polonius' advice, whenever someone repays me a debt I don't wind up around $60,000 per year short!
Spot on. Programs like this would further erode 4th amendment rights and due process and increase the already absurd number of people serving long prison sentences for non-violent crimes, mostly drug-related. It would also potentially increase instances of unnecessary police confrontations, which all too often turn violent, simply because someone was being watched or monitored. The scariest part to me is that it's not just people who have previously committed crimes (violent or non-violent) that are being targeted - it's people who are in the social circles of those people. There are the obvious questions about how police plan to acquire that information - will they mine your social media to see if you have a friend of a friend in common? But there is also the concern that you could end up on a "list" purely out of associations, which would allow police to gather information on you even though there is no evidence that you've actually committed a crime or even plan to commit one. We've already moved in the direction of a garrison state; programs like this would just push us further down the road. I'd write more but the Thought Police are probably watching.
Most Americans don't know US homicide fell by 58% and gun homicide fell 65%as incarceration rates increased the past 22 years.
John Jay has interesting work showing the biggest drops were in fact in the places where incarceration rates increased the most. Also one can clearly see that with a logical two year lag (people committing, getting caught and judicially process on their next crime), as incarceration rates flattened and decrease violent crime is now increasing the past 12 months.
In my state, Maryland, 85% of murder perpetrators, and over 90% of murder victims are released criminals. The numbers are 76% and 84% released felons or persons with five or more arrests.
The data clearly show, that a very small fraction of outlier events aside, US murder is virtually all about released criminals. In fact if you are not a criminal, you are at lower risk of being a homicide victim in the US than you are in Canada, Australia or the European mean.
John Jay has interesting work showing the biggest drops were in fact in the places where incarceration rates increased the most. Also one can clearly see that with a logical two year lag (people committing, getting caught and judicially process on their next crime), as incarceration rates flattened and decrease violent crime is now increasing the past 12 months.
In my state, Maryland, 85% of murder perpetrators, and over 90% of murder victims are released criminals. The numbers are 76% and 84% released felons or persons with five or more arrests.
The data clearly show, that a very small fraction of outlier events aside, US murder is virtually all about released criminals. In fact if you are not a criminal, you are at lower risk of being a homicide victim in the US than you are in Canada, Australia or the European mean.
5
I am happy that thieves, gangsters, and violent people are being locked up to protect the weak and innocent, who live in fear, year after year, for their lives and property. It sucks being victimized, so lock up the thugs for decades.
2
Here we go! Ultra-expanded PD budgets so that Psy-Ops can be conducted by the agencies infamous for executing raids on the wrong addresses, shooting family pets, as well as innocent residents, 'mistakenly;' and otherwise contributing to today's incidents of unnecessary domestic terrorism. Another wondrous facet being added to the intrusive and reckless police state. Could be a great idea, but not in such questionable, often fallible hands. Who, actually, is promoting this hastily-conceived, potentially nightmare scenario among already short-handed police departments at a time when crime statistics are rapidly rising in a negative trend that is clear testimony to declining police-force efficacy? It seems more a form of desperation likely to produce only disaster - at least in its preliminary incarnations. Just as climate conditions cannot be predicted 100 years out, human criminal behavior cannot be predicted a few months out with any sort of reliably actionable accuracy. To ensure public safety, the allegedly scientific techniques must first be proven valid through the use of experiments on aggressive laboratory animals, such as chimpanzees on crack, with the results evaluated by appropriate scientific and judicial authorities, as well as open public review. Ha! And that's nearly as absurd as the entire proposed program.
3
Is this the script for the 6th season of 'the Wire'?
1
They already do, they always go after black people - no matter who or where they are - and treat them as criminals. Preventative? Only in the minds of the cops who've already decided blacks are guilty .... of driving while black, walking while black, living in the USA while black. This whole article is based on the ridiculous movie "minority report" and at least in the movie, they figured out they were wrong. These kind of police NEVER figure out they're wrong. NEVER.
6
Admitting you're wrong is difficult for some people especially when they know they are right.
Your reaction has been gauged and the data fed into the computer. Is there something in your past that worries you so?
The United States already has the highest incarceration rate in the world. Putting more people--mostly black men--in prison is not going to solve anything.
2
Maybe putting more redheads with green eyes in jail instead will help. Or how about any girl named Tiffany? It's not like we don't have actual statistics as to who is committing crime in the USA. I know it's not politically correct but the most violent and criminal demographic in this country is young black men. How is any crime combatting program likely to be successful able to ignore this fact?
What's wrong with putting black men in prison when the commit crimes?
1
One of life's most glaring and harsh ironies is, as we distance ourselves further and further from the country's traditional conservative values and principles, becoming a more liberal society, we continue to put even more laws on the books, criminalizing even more behaviors that lead to yet more incarcerations. Liberal ideology is antithetical, and diametrically opposed, to liberty and justice.
This sounds like a "Minority Report" primer.
3
If the attributes of those most apt to break the law include unemployment, an unstable home life, are in prison, have gang ties and problems with drugs or alcohol, then the thing to do is to get them a job, stabilize their home life, get them out of prison, help them break gang ties and treat them for drug and alcohol problems. If you have a hammer, then everything looks like a nail, and what the police know how to do is to arrest people.
Instead of trying to buy a gun from Mr. Glenn, he should have been offered a job and other help. Now he will be in prison where he will strengthen his gang ties.
The prosecutor says that he does not know if this program will work. Why not try offering help instead?
Instead of trying to buy a gun from Mr. Glenn, he should have been offered a job and other help. Now he will be in prison where he will strengthen his gang ties.
The prosecutor says that he does not know if this program will work. Why not try offering help instead?
20
You describe many of the elements of restorative justice.
Unfortunately, in this country today, with the militarization of all things and the demise of human rights, such an approach gets short shrift.
Unfortunately, in this country today, with the militarization of all things and the demise of human rights, such an approach gets short shrift.
3
It's not the prosecutor's responsibility to employ or help him.
Basically, this is ancient strategy of pacification with a modern twist-remove the able bodied young men and you are left with the more manageable and exploitable women, children and elderly. In practice, we are talking about poor young black men who are not well integrated into the mainstream. Putting them in prison will probably make certain neighborhoods safer. It is certainly much easier and cheaper than trying to integrate them into the mainstream. It allows us to increase control without addressing the core issues of race, segregation and inequality.
Basically, this is ancient strategy of pacification with a modern twist-remove the able bodied young men and you are left with the more manageable and exploitable women, children and elderly. In practice, we are talking about poor young black men who are not well integrated into the mainstream. Putting them in prison will probably make certain neighborhoods safer. It is certainly much easier and cheaper than trying to integrate them into the mainstream. It allows us to increase control without addressing the core issues of race, segregation and inequality.
1
Your naiveté is only exceeded by your altruism. Why dont you offer him a job and you pay him, why force someone else to hire him? Besides were it that easy, crime would be a thing of the past. It is this simplistic thinking that has allowed crime to continue to increase.
If men were angels there would be no crime hence no need for police. But alas men are not angels. Crime has been with us since Cain killed Abel and as long as man is imperfect crime will alway be part of the human experience. All we can do is try to keep it to a minimum by punishing the guilty and rewarding the responsible. Te long blue line is a necessary part of this societal role to keep crime at a minimum and I commend and praise their lawful pursuit in keeping crime to a minimum.
The rise in crime coincides with the welfare state. It dehumanizes the individual by taking away any pride of accomplishment and replaces it with a sense of entitlement and victimhood while removing any sense of reponsibiliy they may have to their situation.
Your simplistic solutions of give, give, give have created this monster amd will only allow crime to increase. Until we can replace welfare and its entitlement mentality with self respect and personal responsibility, crime will continue till only an overbearing police state will exist, a tyranny that will give everyone a job, as you suggest, whether you like it or not. Yes, there will be no crime, but also no freedom, no pride, no humanity, only totaiatarism
If men were angels there would be no crime hence no need for police. But alas men are not angels. Crime has been with us since Cain killed Abel and as long as man is imperfect crime will alway be part of the human experience. All we can do is try to keep it to a minimum by punishing the guilty and rewarding the responsible. Te long blue line is a necessary part of this societal role to keep crime at a minimum and I commend and praise their lawful pursuit in keeping crime to a minimum.
The rise in crime coincides with the welfare state. It dehumanizes the individual by taking away any pride of accomplishment and replaces it with a sense of entitlement and victimhood while removing any sense of reponsibiliy they may have to their situation.
Your simplistic solutions of give, give, give have created this monster amd will only allow crime to increase. Until we can replace welfare and its entitlement mentality with self respect and personal responsibility, crime will continue till only an overbearing police state will exist, a tyranny that will give everyone a job, as you suggest, whether you like it or not. Yes, there will be no crime, but also no freedom, no pride, no humanity, only totaiatarism
2
"They say criminals...often have similar attributes...previous arrests; unemployment; an unstable home life; friends and relatives who have been killed, are in prison or have gang ties; and problems with drugs or alcohol."
For heaven's sake, is it so hard to see the answer is not an ostensibly clever algorithm that predicts who fits this pattern, but instead addressing each of these root causes—and for all people in susceptible groups?
Are we so obtuse that we lay each element of a societal trap for those enmeshed in the fabric of hopelessness, racism, and poverty, and then think we're "successful" when we catch people in that trap?
Shouldn't we be dismantling the trap altogether, and replacing it with a society based on hope and opportunity?
We keep electing leaders who know what the problems are, and yet retain office despite treating only symptoms, while ignoring the illness itself.
This article underscores the totally farcical nature of our "law and order" approach to social problems: if we want to get serious about crime in our nation, we need to address the causal chain leading to crime, not just lay in ambush at the final "Put-them-in-prison!" stage.
I'm not in the least impressed by this "algorithm"—I'm embarrassed by how we allow its "results" to be misconstrued.
@ricfouad
For heaven's sake, is it so hard to see the answer is not an ostensibly clever algorithm that predicts who fits this pattern, but instead addressing each of these root causes—and for all people in susceptible groups?
Are we so obtuse that we lay each element of a societal trap for those enmeshed in the fabric of hopelessness, racism, and poverty, and then think we're "successful" when we catch people in that trap?
Shouldn't we be dismantling the trap altogether, and replacing it with a society based on hope and opportunity?
We keep electing leaders who know what the problems are, and yet retain office despite treating only symptoms, while ignoring the illness itself.
This article underscores the totally farcical nature of our "law and order" approach to social problems: if we want to get serious about crime in our nation, we need to address the causal chain leading to crime, not just lay in ambush at the final "Put-them-in-prison!" stage.
I'm not in the least impressed by this "algorithm"—I'm embarrassed by how we allow its "results" to be misconstrued.
@ricfouad
19
Don't we already have well-proved science that the shape of men's heads already provides ample basis for deducing their criminal propensities. When is law enforcement going to start employing the widely-accepted (97% of all real scientists) empirical methods discovered in phrenology. Also, there are many highly qualified professionals that have almost flawless records of success through analysis of entrails, tea leaves and the flight of birds. It is high time that police show respect for modern scientific methods.
Race aside, there is really no way to truly predict who will commit a crime. As humans, we are not that consistent. Some people continuously make mistakes, some learn from them and never repeat, others want to change but don't really know how, and then there are the ones who have changed but are always viewed in a negative light. Feelings, circumstances, survival, environment, etc. change all the time and can affect someone's beliefs and behaviors. For example, just because someone lives in a poor neighborhood with a high crime rate does not mean they will commit a crime but with this new program they will be targeted anyway. If anything, the program helps justify stereotyping and profiling.
11
"Race aside, there is really no way to truly predict who will commit a crime"
That's the point: race. After that is determined, THEN you know who is destined to be a criminal. Simply look at the numbers. Simple.
That's the point: race. After that is determined, THEN you know who is destined to be a criminal. Simply look at the numbers. Simple.
Interesting. A complex computer program comes up with same info as observant, non PC people: Blacks commit the most crimes. Shocking. I guess, according to liberals, the computers must be inherently racist as well, right? When will theses child like lefties finally understand that profiling actually works. Now, all we need is a computer to tell liberals that hispanics are more likely to be illegals: then maybe we can finally do something about that problem.
4
The algorithm:
If race = black, hispanic or eastern european then person = suspect;
else person = not of interest;
If race = black, hispanic or eastern european then person = suspect;
else person = not of interest;
3
"... enforce laws selectively."
Selective enforcement -- oh no!
Strange to hear the left now oppose what has been the hallmark (or facade) of the Obama administration and its so-called Justice Department.
Selective, or more accurately, intensive, focused enforcement contributed to the dismantlement of many powerful Mafia families; few complained.
Police concentration on the future plans of Killers & Co. seems sound, provided that it does not come at the expense of homicide departments/detectives dedicated to solving already committed murders -- a problem cited in "Ghettocide: A True Story of Murder in America" by Jill Leovy; Spiegel & Grau (Jan. 27 2015).
Law enforcement resources are finite, choices must be made -- in good faith.
Selective enforcement -- oh no!
Strange to hear the left now oppose what has been the hallmark (or facade) of the Obama administration and its so-called Justice Department.
Selective, or more accurately, intensive, focused enforcement contributed to the dismantlement of many powerful Mafia families; few complained.
Police concentration on the future plans of Killers & Co. seems sound, provided that it does not come at the expense of homicide departments/detectives dedicated to solving already committed murders -- a problem cited in "Ghettocide: A True Story of Murder in America" by Jill Leovy; Spiegel & Grau (Jan. 27 2015).
Law enforcement resources are finite, choices must be made -- in good faith.
1
Too late for 'good faith."
Certain kinds of crime are committed disproportionately by certain racial/ethnic segments of the society and for that reason the algorithms will target them--and for that reason this program will be squashed by the PC folks as 'racist.'
4
So not only is it 'guilty by association', but it's also 'thought crimes', or 'pre-crime'. No. Absolutely not. Guilt comes AFTER activity, not before unless there is a long chain of LEGALLY OBTAINED EVIDENCE pointing to intent. And intent is already punishable. We don't need new programs to cover already criminal activity.
6
Like it or not, associating with known criminals is a violation of parole in all fifty states. You should try to read up on the law. You might learn something.
1
SOME of this is based on post-crime punishement merely being held back in exchange for an absence of new crimes.
"We have all 16 of this neighborhood's Bloods branch caught on camera selling Crack, we'll hold off on prosecution for now but if anybody gets shot by a blood all of these old cases are going to trial at once" is a common new threat which I can accept. It keeps the gangs hustling rather than shooting it out.
A lot of the other stuff? Not so much.
"We have all 16 of this neighborhood's Bloods branch caught on camera selling Crack, we'll hold off on prosecution for now but if anybody gets shot by a blood all of these old cases are going to trial at once" is a common new threat which I can accept. It keeps the gangs hustling rather than shooting it out.
A lot of the other stuff? Not so much.
Wow! This will last about a week until its called a "racist computer program" because it picks out black men more often than their percentage of the population would suggest. Which, ofcourse, we all know is what the statistics say, but its not very PC to state publicly.
Chalk this one up, along with the SATs, teacher's teach, policeman tests, credit scores...as "racist"
Chalk this one up, along with the SATs, teacher's teach, policeman tests, credit scores...as "racist"
3
I thought Liberals were against Profiling.
An officer is condemned for profiling but it is A-OK for a computer to do it. That doesn't help the beat officer very much.
Sure it does, it take the emotion out of it. Liberals love to scream about cops being racist, etc. They predicate that thought (if you can call it that) on emotion. So, if you take the emotion out of it, and a logic based machine comes up with the same result, then guess what, its not racist to profile blacks for crime, its just statistical fact. Maybe, just maybe, this will start getting liberals off the "excuses for black bandwagon", and start questioning why black leaders are not doing anything to address the disproportionately high crime rate among blacks.
1
So you're combining the premise of Minority Report, a Spielberg film adapted from a Philip K Dick story which was a cautionary tale about the police state, and the broken windows policing strategy which has been a colossal failure at mending the widening rift between cops and the community's they (are supposed to) serve.
How could this possibly go wrong?
How could this possibly go wrong?
22
Anti-crime initiatives all seem to share one goal: put more black men in prison. Sentencing someone to 15 years for having a bullet in his pocket or 25 years for possessing designer drugs and posting a picture of himself with a gun on Facebook is beyond cruel, it's sadistic. The US has the highest rate of imprisonment in the world; with 5% of the world's population, we have 25% of the world's prisoners. 1 in 31 adults in the US is behind bars. There is a war against black men, conducted by local, state, and federal agencies. Black people represent 13% of the US population but 40% of the US prison population. This approach may take criminals off the street, but it destroys families and communities and perpetuates the conditions that lead to crime. The best crime prevention program would be to give people equal opportunity for education, employment, and healthcare and ban handguns.
3
You lie with dogs, you'll get fleas
2
First, crime prediction will go for the low hanging fruit. It will target black males, who commit most crimes. Then it will move on to target white males who legally own a firearm and believe n free speech. Lastly, after everyone else is criminalized, old ladies with their own email servers and pantsuits will get traffic tickets. But that will take a while.
3
Uh, I think I saw this movie already a few years ago. It was called, Minority Report and was not one of Tom Cruise's better efforts.
5
Yikes! This reads like a social engineering plan which, while potentially effective, seems unethical. The basic premise seems to be that if you associate with bad folks, you are likely to engage in bad behavior. A reasonable premise. But we are basically talking about targeting certain people for any offense that can be successfully prosecuted to get them off the streets and into prison. It's similar to the strategy of going after gangs, but employed against people who don't necessarily have a formal gang affiliation. So yes, if you get rid off the tough kids, the nerdy kids may thrive. But, we are talking achieving that through incarceration and the resultant ruination of many lives. Scary Big Brother stuff.
11
If it works in these instances, surely no one will complain if we extend its use to white collar crime. Am I being too optimistic about the possibilities for these methods. Think about gathering stock brokers and bankers into a room and flashing their profiles on the screen, having predicted their probable future criminal acts. Think about what we could do with the polluters, the producers of tainted food and drugs. The possibilities are endless. Surely, no one will complain.
6
Far out. You illustrate two issues: first the one sidedness of the war on crime; Secondly the spread of such tactics to group declared enemies of the State. Of course, the first group, the group you ID will always call the shots via their paid politicians to target whatever groups THEY want.
My overall attitude rebels against this kind of government intrusion, but it seems that what they are doing, aside from being invasive, is simply identifying those with criminal records and gang affiliations. Something that I hope they had been doing for the last however many years. This appears to be another government boondoggle to tell us something we already know. Follow the money.
2
I haven't read through the posts here so I might be repeating someone comments. I live in a small town that has shifted demographics over the last 50 years. During that time we've gone from a rather benign city to one where violence and drugs prevail, property values have plummeted while taxes are the highest of all surrounding cities and the city council is ruled by racial divisiveness all the while addicted to the government teat for 'free' money to build more 'no income/low income' housing (commonly referred to as mixed income neighborhoods...hahahahaha). Care to guess where the abundance of this crime comes from? The public housing, the single mothers, the fatherless children, the vapid drug culture, etc. In other words, the black majority of our city and other democrat bastions that perpetuate government over family.
3
What you describe is happening to more and more predominantly white safe cities because they are EXPORTING POVERTY to these neighborhoods on purpose. They have realized that housing projects don't work so now they are attempting to de-concentrate poverty which means they are planting the low lifes into formerly safe white communities, to the detriment of those communities. Soon there will be no escape from the crime and graft of the predominantly minority and ignorant horde
So simple......everyone who's skin color is from Beige, Brown to Black
2
I would start in the Albany legislature and governors mansion, and if the computers haven't crashed, move into the NYC city council chambers and mayors office.
1
As long as Political Correctness and the ACLU are in vogue, there is not a chance such a smart law has any chance. Hopefully we will tend to that in spades come 2016
1
I take it you would have supported the palmer raids too?
The ACLU is pretty solid on 4th Amendment cases which this one essentially boils down to. (And some 5th Amendment too). Just because the ACLU is awful about the 2nd and 10th amendments and mediocre at best about the first doesn't mean they are all bad.
Their 4th and 5th amendment fights have generally been right
Their 4th and 5th amendment fights have generally been right
Maybe the information should be used to help these people get employed, receive counseling etc rather than as a tool to punish and threaten.
1
This program apparently figures out what any 10-year-old already knows: Unemployed Black males between the ages of 15-25 with long rap sheets are the most likely future offenders.
In any case, if the program is effective you can rest assured that it will be banned as being racist.
In any case, if the program is effective you can rest assured that it will be banned as being racist.
3
Computer models and predictive analytics work poorly on dating sites. I can't imagine they'll work any better for crime.
12
Amazing, the irrationality and fear of the ACLU and the alarmists in these comments. Crime isn't an equal opportunity blank slate with the probability of an old white man and a young black man being the same. But no, Granny in the wheelchair gets to take her shoes off for the TSA, just like the bearded Middle Easterner male with bulging underwear. We have to play Equal Protection while our intuition and logic knows very well who and who is not likely to do crime.
EVERYONE profiles, all of the time. It's in our DNA that helped us survive for millions of years. Friend or foe? Looks the same, dresses the same, speaks the same. Or not? Male or female? Of course geography matters! You aren't going to cut the violent crime rate by increasing patrols in the gated communities. (Of course, some of those residents commit non-violent crime, aka, White Collar.) The same liberal people, of which I identify, who claim they don't see color are lying to themselves. When their Prius breaks down (presuming they do, sometimes!) at night in the "ghetto" where I used to live, they sure would rather see me, old white male, offer help than a bunch of trash talking, bagging 'n sagging, color wearing, young black men.
Anyone who says otherwise is just fooling themselves. We all profile.
EVERYONE profiles, all of the time. It's in our DNA that helped us survive for millions of years. Friend or foe? Looks the same, dresses the same, speaks the same. Or not? Male or female? Of course geography matters! You aren't going to cut the violent crime rate by increasing patrols in the gated communities. (Of course, some of those residents commit non-violent crime, aka, White Collar.) The same liberal people, of which I identify, who claim they don't see color are lying to themselves. When their Prius breaks down (presuming they do, sometimes!) at night in the "ghetto" where I used to live, they sure would rather see me, old white male, offer help than a bunch of trash talking, bagging 'n sagging, color wearing, young black men.
Anyone who says otherwise is just fooling themselves. We all profile.
24
Except that's now how this country works. Last I checked, Amendments 4 through 8 didn't have a "unless our computers tell us otherwise" clause.
I see the New York Times' bar for "featured comments" has gotten quite low.
I see the New York Times' bar for "featured comments" has gotten quite low.
You Sir, deserve the "Best Comment Award!"
At the same time if "You are associated with someone who is associated with a crime" means all your tiny issues like simple tickets are going to somehow get more severe it may lead to the wrong *KIND* of shunning for the dangerous types. (I fully acknowledge that there are a lot of good kinds of shunning that these criminals and their friends could use, but driving them further away from the "Legitimate" population can actually lead to disaster.
Police or vigilantes have always cracked down on crime in white neighborhoods. This is one reason white neighborhoods are much safer than black neighborhoods. People stop committing crimes when the odds of getting caught increase. But until recent decades, police departments ignored crime in black neighborhoods, except to collect bribes from drug dealers and houses of prostitution. Instead, the police concentrated their patrol cars to keep white neighborhoods crime free. As a result, crime culture flourished in black neighborhoods because black criminals realized they ran little risk of being caught. This begin to change when black civic and religious leaders begin to complain—with good cause—that that police weren’t doing enough to protect black citizens from crime. Arrest rates in black neighborhoods soared as police began to focus on combatting crime in high-crime neighborhoods. However, arrest rates in black neighborhoods will gradually begin to fall as police continue the crackdown as criminals realize they are unlikely to get away with crimes. According to the FBI Uniform Crime Report, U.S. police clear about 64 percent of murders, 58 percent of assaults, 40 percent of reported rapes, 29 percent of robberies, 22 percent of thefts, 14 percent of car thefts and 13.1 percent of burglaries, but the clearance rate is still lower in black neighborhoods.
2
Sounds precariously like stop-and-frisk, big-brother. What I do like is the extra pressure put to the kingpins or natural leaders. I think if we can turn them and still keep them viable in their communities the payoff downstream could be considerable.
1
A doctor can try and treat a bad knee, or upset stomach.
But doctor cannot fix stupid.
Police use tools much like doctor. Profiling is one.
More jails are the answer.
It is simple. A felonious person has a place in civil society. Jail.
But doctor cannot fix stupid.
Police use tools much like doctor. Profiling is one.
More jails are the answer.
It is simple. A felonious person has a place in civil society. Jail.
1
Today's underclass unemployment and crime are not caused by families without men - but by men without families.
When 80 percent of mothers are welfare-supported or self-supported, 80 percent of the men are also unmarried. They are history's first majority of never-married men.
Hard labor for low wages requires intense motivation. Before the welfare entitlements of the 1960s, a father’s paycheck was necessary for survival. Now millions of men need not work to feed, clothe or shelter families. They need never face their hungry child or suffer tender emotions. They need not be deterred by a prison term, nor fear the drug lifestyle - nor cling to a job.
These men impose an outlaw culture. They teach boys coming of age that irresponsibility and crime are viable ways of life, forcing them to dress like convicts, harden their hearts and prove their own brutality to earn protective "respect."
So then, what will happen if we succeed in eliminating racism and improving schools - even if we get unmarried mothers off welfare? How will that change the day-to-day motivations of the mass of men who never marry? The root cause of the crime epidemic will continue, as each unmarried woman's first pregnancy creates an invisible man - a man with nothing to lose.
If low-wage fathers remain unessential, we will continue routing whole communities of women and children into poverty - and great masses of unmarried, unmotivated men into rootless, antisocial, violent criminality.
When 80 percent of mothers are welfare-supported or self-supported, 80 percent of the men are also unmarried. They are history's first majority of never-married men.
Hard labor for low wages requires intense motivation. Before the welfare entitlements of the 1960s, a father’s paycheck was necessary for survival. Now millions of men need not work to feed, clothe or shelter families. They need never face their hungry child or suffer tender emotions. They need not be deterred by a prison term, nor fear the drug lifestyle - nor cling to a job.
These men impose an outlaw culture. They teach boys coming of age that irresponsibility and crime are viable ways of life, forcing them to dress like convicts, harden their hearts and prove their own brutality to earn protective "respect."
So then, what will happen if we succeed in eliminating racism and improving schools - even if we get unmarried mothers off welfare? How will that change the day-to-day motivations of the mass of men who never marry? The root cause of the crime epidemic will continue, as each unmarried woman's first pregnancy creates an invisible man - a man with nothing to lose.
If low-wage fathers remain unessential, we will continue routing whole communities of women and children into poverty - and great masses of unmarried, unmotivated men into rootless, antisocial, violent criminality.
3
You make a pretty solid point, lack of anything to tie you down to the world can lead to some messed up behavior.
Clinging to a job out of desperation and fear doesn't sound very good either, in fact it sounds like an incredibly weak bargaining position that decreases the ability to fairly bargain for the value of your services in a capitalist economy.
Clinging to a job out of desperation and fear doesn't sound very good either, in fact it sounds like an incredibly weak bargaining position that decreases the ability to fairly bargain for the value of your services in a capitalist economy.
No no, lets keep doing what we're doing now, let the criminals have their way in the poorer neighborhoods. Let's keep leaving behind the law abiding people in these areas to fend for themselves.
1
So fatherless Black males between the ages of 13 and 35 are going to be flagged. Gotcha.
10
Here's what the article says:
"Mr. Brown has come to see some benefit in the program. NoVA officials have helped him find housing, he said, and pushed him to get a job — he now works as a delivery driver for Back Porch Bar-B-Q. The authorities connected him with a program to help him pay child support — he has four children ranging from 4 months to 7 years. And he works with young people to help keep them out of trouble."
I've been a criminal defnse lawyer for 33 years. I started a public defender's office in the Bronx. The Bronx Defenders, which incorpoatres a holitsic approach to adressing the client's issues, is known throughout the country as the right way to do indigent criminal defense. We know that addressing the root causes of engagement with the criminal justice system is the right thing to do.
Holistic policing is also the way forward... It's about identifying those who need the most help, who also may well be those who are the most dangerous, and then doing what can be done to release the pressure... What's so wrong with that?
"Mr. Brown has come to see some benefit in the program. NoVA officials have helped him find housing, he said, and pushed him to get a job — he now works as a delivery driver for Back Porch Bar-B-Q. The authorities connected him with a program to help him pay child support — he has four children ranging from 4 months to 7 years. And he works with young people to help keep them out of trouble."
I've been a criminal defnse lawyer for 33 years. I started a public defender's office in the Bronx. The Bronx Defenders, which incorpoatres a holitsic approach to adressing the client's issues, is known throughout the country as the right way to do indigent criminal defense. We know that addressing the root causes of engagement with the criminal justice system is the right thing to do.
Holistic policing is also the way forward... It's about identifying those who need the most help, who also may well be those who are the most dangerous, and then doing what can be done to release the pressure... What's so wrong with that?
20
Well, first, for police it's not nearly as fun and glamorous as kicking down doors and bustin' heads, and "imposing harsh penalties for even petty slights."
Secondly, it contributes nothing to the prison pipeline, in fact it threatens it.
Secondly, it contributes nothing to the prison pipeline, in fact it threatens it.
Ok. How do we define fascism? Algorithms, profiling certain people. What happened to innocent until proven guilty? Guilt by social, economics metrics. Huh!
2
Well cognitive dissonance reigns. We screamed at Bush and continue to scream at President Obama re the Patriot Act, the use of drones and the fact that we took out Alwaki - a US Citizen in the Yemen we profiled as being responsible for terrorism.
BUT we give high five to this strategy for fighting crime? So where does the Constitution come in? Where is the due process of the law?
Are they going to lock up or profile the mentally illl? Don't forget you cannot arrest a mentally ill person until they have committed certain acts which deem them "a threat" then the use of the Baker Act comes into effect. So many of our criminals have mental problems. And oh by the way what about those folks who commit mass violence in schools, churches...Are we using data analytics on those folks too? No? Ooops most of them are white pardon me.
What a slippery slope and those who do not want to see that this is tantamount to eugenics then you are living in la la land.
BUT we give high five to this strategy for fighting crime? So where does the Constitution come in? Where is the due process of the law?
Are they going to lock up or profile the mentally illl? Don't forget you cannot arrest a mentally ill person until they have committed certain acts which deem them "a threat" then the use of the Baker Act comes into effect. So many of our criminals have mental problems. And oh by the way what about those folks who commit mass violence in schools, churches...Are we using data analytics on those folks too? No? Ooops most of them are white pardon me.
What a slippery slope and those who do not want to see that this is tantamount to eugenics then you are living in la la land.
2
The current system of having police perform extrajudicial executions of any suspicious person on the street is a step in the right direction.
There is probably some genetic and social predisposition to be criminal. So soon police can simply take DNA samples like in the movie "GATTACA" and have suspects fill out a background form...and they can be executed before they have even committed the crime if their data indicate a strong predisposition to commit crimes.
After all, capital punishment has never actually saved a single life. When we execute someone who has committed murder, one of the arguments is that the person will never leave prison (if a life sentence is given instead the murderer could hypothetically get out) and murder again. In other words, the death penalty is about protecting future hypothetical murder victims, not any actual murder victims. They are already dead and cannot be protected.
There is probably some genetic and social predisposition to be criminal. So soon police can simply take DNA samples like in the movie "GATTACA" and have suspects fill out a background form...and they can be executed before they have even committed the crime if their data indicate a strong predisposition to commit crimes.
After all, capital punishment has never actually saved a single life. When we execute someone who has committed murder, one of the arguments is that the person will never leave prison (if a life sentence is given instead the murderer could hypothetically get out) and murder again. In other words, the death penalty is about protecting future hypothetical murder victims, not any actual murder victims. They are already dead and cannot be protected.
1
So much for "Innocent until proven guilty" Maybe they should run this program on all of our politicians and police first.
4
Just remember: Statistics don't lie but statisticians do...At some point this will get into the hands of a politician with an agenda and then all hell will break loose.
3
Black people are usually victimized by other black people, not the police. A race-neutral algorithm that targets people based on past criminal behavior and on associating with criminals will benefit law-abiding blacks.
9
"If you run with wolves, you will learn how to howl. But, if you associate with eagles, you will learn how to soar to great heights." Colin Powell
5
Let me save you some time and money. They are all Democrat cities.
1
Anyone who "inhaled" is a likely suspect and faces a lifetime of paperwork and job rejection explaining how this happened. Republicans and some law and order Democrats won't drop the issue. I was asked to write out what exactly happened 40 years ago after providing certified court documents. This is why the criminal justice system is crazy. They want to make everything illegal and churn endlessly then tell you they are going to decriminalize victimless crimes. Trust them to create a more tyrannical government under the guise of law and order. Though crime is the new horizon to expand their power.
1
There is another component to KC NoVa that was featured on the local news. Habitual criminals are asked what they need to go straight and the program attempts to provide it. This may include things like drug treatment, job training, or a place to live. It was described as a carrot and stick program.
Murder reduction is not the sole goal, but it is centered on a reduction of all types of street crime. The program realizes that just locking people up doesn't solve the problem. These types of crimes have gone down but senseless random drive-by killings are increasing.
So did the police department fool the local news media or has the New York Times left out an important part of the story?
Murder reduction is not the sole goal, but it is centered on a reduction of all types of street crime. The program realizes that just locking people up doesn't solve the problem. These types of crimes have gone down but senseless random drive-by killings are increasing.
So did the police department fool the local news media or has the New York Times left out an important part of the story?
1
My guess? The NY Times left this part out. On purpose.
Because it doesn't fit in with the police-bad prison-bad
I-didn't-do-nothin' narrative.
Because it doesn't fit in with the police-bad prison-bad
I-didn't-do-nothin' narrative.
2
I work for a company that makes and sells some the best predictive analytics tools available. But, as we say, "Propensity is not destiny" - just because the data tools say you are likely to respond a certain way doesn't mean you will. You have something called "free will" - and the in the US, something called a presumption of innocence.
I would be terrified of using these models to treat people differently in terms of police focus.
I would be terrified of using these models to treat people differently in terms of police focus.
10
Nobody is saying we should lock a person up for being on the computer list.
What they're doing is keeping an extra eye on them.
Which only makes sense.
Are you people THAT desperate to release violent criminals hoping they'll vote Democrat that you'll sacrifice lives toward that end?
What they're doing is keeping an extra eye on them.
Which only makes sense.
Are you people THAT desperate to release violent criminals hoping they'll vote Democrat that you'll sacrifice lives toward that end?
2
If prisons were not profitable, we'd jail many fewer people in this country. Some social functions should not be privatized for profit. Even the assumption that someone who has committed prior crimes will offend again is prejudicial. Make no mistake: this is a feeder program to keep our prisons populated and to keep the money coming.
15
Well most prisons are not profitable, jails cost a lot and it would be much better if individuals would not be criminal. Your idea that we arrest people to fill our prisons is laughable.
3
Wisconsin corrections must be thick with angels in jail, only locked up cause they're being harvested off the streets like corn off a farm.
Some people's propensity for self delusion leaves them so vulnerable to brainjacking as to explain all the Nigerian inheritance come-ons we see: half of Wisconsin must be eagerly awaiting their checks from His Majesty's Exchequer of Surplus Disbursements.
Imagine the width of conspiracy required to succeed in arresting and persecuting and convicting and sentencing innocent people, by elected officials and random juries, all to benefit a private penal system.
The facts are that:
1. Federal dependency programs have warped the culture of their pets into producing pit bull attitudes incompatible with the lawful pursuit of happiness;
2. Private business, whether for transportation or corrections, is more cost effective than government.
3. Chicago blacks can murder as many as 12 Chicago blacks in 24 hours;
Must the justice system wait until after the murders to REact rather than PROact to identify those most likely to to commit violent crimes and prevent the killings?
Some people's propensity for self delusion leaves them so vulnerable to brainjacking as to explain all the Nigerian inheritance come-ons we see: half of Wisconsin must be eagerly awaiting their checks from His Majesty's Exchequer of Surplus Disbursements.
Imagine the width of conspiracy required to succeed in arresting and persecuting and convicting and sentencing innocent people, by elected officials and random juries, all to benefit a private penal system.
The facts are that:
1. Federal dependency programs have warped the culture of their pets into producing pit bull attitudes incompatible with the lawful pursuit of happiness;
2. Private business, whether for transportation or corrections, is more cost effective than government.
3. Chicago blacks can murder as many as 12 Chicago blacks in 24 hours;
Must the justice system wait until after the murders to REact rather than PROact to identify those most likely to to commit violent crimes and prevent the killings?
1
“…The next time they... commit a violent act, the police will come after everyone in the group for whatever offense they can make stick, no matter how petty…”
Any young inner-city black man will tell you the police already do this and have been for decades.
“…But what resonated with him...was the NoVA team saying that harsh penalties will be imposed for even petty slights once warnings have been given....”
A strategy of imposing extreme penalties on young black men is nothing new either.
“…They say criminals commit violent crimes in fairly distinctive patterns and often have similar attributes. [including] previous arrests; unemployment; an unstable home life; friends and relatives who have been killed, are in prison or have gang ties; and problems with drugs or alcohol….”
Brilliant, this describes the vast majority of young inner-city black men.
Any young inner-city black man will tell you the police already do this and have been for decades.
“…But what resonated with him...was the NoVA team saying that harsh penalties will be imposed for even petty slights once warnings have been given....”
A strategy of imposing extreme penalties on young black men is nothing new either.
“…They say criminals commit violent crimes in fairly distinctive patterns and often have similar attributes. [including] previous arrests; unemployment; an unstable home life; friends and relatives who have been killed, are in prison or have gang ties; and problems with drugs or alcohol….”
Brilliant, this describes the vast majority of young inner-city black men.
5
Here come the thought police!
If this were truly doable, it would be interesting to watch the progressives/leftists be all for it, until the statistics showed that the vast majority of those arrested turned out to be progressives/leftists.
If this were truly doable, it would be interesting to watch the progressives/leftists be all for it, until the statistics showed that the vast majority of those arrested turned out to be progressives/leftists.
5
The police make rank and greater pay when they arrest more people who can't afford to defend themselves who are then blackmailed into pleading guilty irregardless of guilt or innocence.
There is no incentive to prevent crime.
There is no incentive to prevent crime.
18
Yes, the police are secretly committing murders and drive-bys so they have an excuse to arrest innocent young men.
That's what you're saying. Perhaps you'd like to modify your statement.
That's what you're saying. Perhaps you'd like to modify your statement.
1
The problem in this country is that we don't want to pay the price to prevent criminality; we would rather appear "tough on crime" and pay prison corporations to manage populations. Nationwide we vote against providing birth control or abortions to prevent children from being born into broken homes that cannot care for them properly. We vote against before and after school programs and other improved educational opportunities. We absolutely will not pay for trade, technical, or other higher education opportunities.
Personally, I would rather pay $25k per year per child to help break the poverty cycle than $75k a year for him to sit in prison. Until we do admit that those without adequate resources and opportunities are set up to fail, we will continue on this path to prison.
Personally, I would rather pay $25k per year per child to help break the poverty cycle than $75k a year for him to sit in prison. Until we do admit that those without adequate resources and opportunities are set up to fail, we will continue on this path to prison.
44
Prevent criminality?? Not possible in a free society with the variation of culture we have.
1
In NYC and much of upstate NY we spend $20,000+ per year to send a kid to school. Is that not enough?
You can't MAKE them pay attention.
You can't MAKE them consider it important.
You can't MAKE them believe schooling is worthwhile when most of their leaders are telling them the whole country is racist so they'd be studying for nothing.
You can't MAKE them pay attention.
You can't MAKE them consider it important.
You can't MAKE them believe schooling is worthwhile when most of their leaders are telling them the whole country is racist so they'd be studying for nothing.
2
I don't know what planet you live on, but on this planet abortions are legal and birth control is free. We also have government-funded before-and-after school programs, government grants for trade, technical and higher education opportunities and hundreds of billions of dollars directed at housing, education, phones, food and lots of other "stepping stones" for the poor.
Yes, we already have all those things on planet Earth. Stop by and visit us some time!
Yes, we already have all those things on planet Earth. Stop by and visit us some time!
1
Since they are using technology, I guess it's going to be considered justified profiling. Sure.... No problem here!
4
Its analytics. We use analytics in everything such as in logistics, demand modeling, and predicting futures today so there is no reason to get bent out of shape over this. People let their minds wander too much and think that if the don't spout their crazy theories, we'll be living in a dystopian future...
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I can imagine the same sort of comment 100 hundred years ago when they decided who would be pre-disposed to commit crimes by the shape of their head. The terminology was different but the "science" was about the same.
Until you have about 20 years of good solid research on this I think I'll remain a skeptic. By the way, we don't use the shape of the head to predict criminals any more...Seems that concept--so thoroughly accepted by the "scientists" of that day--was just a lot of hooey.
Until you have about 20 years of good solid research on this I think I'll remain a skeptic. By the way, we don't use the shape of the head to predict criminals any more...Seems that concept--so thoroughly accepted by the "scientists" of that day--was just a lot of hooey.
1
“…At a time when many police departments are under fire for aggressive tactics, particularly in minority neighborhoods, advocates say predictive policing can help improve police-community relations by focusing on the people most likely to become involved in violent crime…”
The good reporters who wrote the article, and their editors, seem to blindly accept whatever utter absurdity the police PR people feed them and dutifully and stenographically report to their readers as unvarnished, unbiased facts.
It’s the constant stream of articles like this that serve to shape perceptions and perpetuate a false narrative that police are well-intentioned and only want to serve and protect —and young black men are dangerous inveterate criminals that must be dealt with harshly.
The good reporters who wrote the article, and their editors, seem to blindly accept whatever utter absurdity the police PR people feed them and dutifully and stenographically report to their readers as unvarnished, unbiased facts.
It’s the constant stream of articles like this that serve to shape perceptions and perpetuate a false narrative that police are well-intentioned and only want to serve and protect —and young black men are dangerous inveterate criminals that must be dealt with harshly.
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The "perceptions" are based on which groups commit violent crimes at the highest rates.
2
The "perceptions" are based on YOUR PERCEPTION of which groups are ALLEGED AND ARRESTED for committing violent crimes at the highest rates.
1
I guess Mr. Brown's on the police PR payroll then. He, himself, praises portions of the program near the end of the article if you bothered to read that far.
These programs definitely walk the line on civil rights violations just like Stop & Frisk but the police are in a no-win situation until these communities decide to hold themselves accountable too.
There should be no 'snitches get stitches' and there needs to be far less tolerance for petty crime within the community.
You get what you tolerate. When crime fighting is all on the police, they have too much power. Crime also needs to be fought from within.
There should be no 'snitches get stitches' and there needs to be far less tolerance for petty crime within the community.
You get what you tolerate. When crime fighting is all on the police, they have too much power. Crime also needs to be fought from within.
26
Why blame the victim? The people living in high crime communities didn't create the environments they now live in. Failing public schools did that. For-profit prisons and the failed war on drugs did that. Racial discrimination in our courts and juvenile detentions systems did that. Police brutality and the states failure to protect witnesses did that. And so on.
The cause is top down, not bottom up. That's why you don't see this stuff in upper middle class suburbia where those institutional problems don't exist. When municipalities start reforming and improving their systems in ways that don't involve a perpetuation of failed policing policies, you'll see community changes. The "stop snitching" movement didn't create itself overnight, and last I checked the "Blue Code of Silence" is no different. You're misdiagnosing the root cause of these problems.
The cause is top down, not bottom up. That's why you don't see this stuff in upper middle class suburbia where those institutional problems don't exist. When municipalities start reforming and improving their systems in ways that don't involve a perpetuation of failed policing policies, you'll see community changes. The "stop snitching" movement didn't create itself overnight, and last I checked the "Blue Code of Silence" is no different. You're misdiagnosing the root cause of these problems.
1
ghost, it's not victim blaming to expect the community itself to pitch in to improve their own situation.
"The people living in high crime communities didn't create the environments they now live in."
Umm. Yes they do. They are not children.
Umm. Yes they do. They are not children.
... And I thought they were going to use this technology to help people connect with counseling, education, job training and opportunities. Silly me, just another aggressive tactic likely to overwhelm our dysfunctional and overburdened prisons.
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That would be everyone on Welfare now, you do not need a fancy program for that, you need an economy, and people who WANT to wolrk, and not sit on their butts! fewer demonrats. socialism kills the spirit and ambition! communism just kills you.
2
don't we already have all of that in every city Fed. Building, State Welfare office, and city hall building? we KNOW who, and what, and where, and how much, we wnat to know WHEN something ever gets fixed by the government.
Did you read the entire article? NoVa helped Mr. Brown find housing and persuaded him to find a legal job.
The very definition pf "slippery slope."
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Goodbye to the Constitution and equal treatment under the law.
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Equal protection, not treatment. Criminals get criminal treatment.
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LOL Yeah, fighting crime by using analytical techniques is EXACTLY what the authors of the Constitution were afraid of.
According to the FBI's Uniform Crime Report, those most likely to commit crimes are black.
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Political correctness overrules common sense to the degree that people refuse to accept this is true.
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Only because they don't track the daily crimes of our lawless police.
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Which only means that correlation does not indicate causality, and that data without analysis is worse than useless.
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Police have been profiling bad actors for a hundred years....it's just that it's been an intuitive process. Who do you automatically suspect of violent crime? Somebody who's already committed a violent crime.
If modern analytics can make the process more scientific and more accurate, good for us.
If modern analytics can make the process more scientific and more accurate, good for us.
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Even the TSA is trying to predict crimes now. You know when the TSA gets involved it's nothing more that voodoo science.
http://www.thefederalistpapers.org/us/crack-tsa-squad-to-run-pre-crime-d...
http://www.thefederalistpapers.org/us/crack-tsa-squad-to-run-pre-crime-d...
5
They should use this on Wall Street for white collar crime.
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Yes, the same algorithm could be put into use to predict predatory and sociopathic behavior in MBAs, environmental crime in engineers, culpable duplicity in media.
1
But they can afford high price attorneys plus they're donating to the political elites' in huge amounts. Goldman Sachs was BO's largest contributor and notice that no one when to jail for selling mortgage backed securites that they knew were risky junk. How many people were harmed from that catastophy?
BTW, keep an eye on the metals markets, gold and silver. Wall Street has manipulated the markets to keep the price down, and as a consequence, they've sold more gold and silver on paper than exists. Problem is that many countries like Germany now want their gold back and they're being told they can't have it.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2015-02-05/germany-s-gold-repatri...
BTW, keep an eye on the metals markets, gold and silver. Wall Street has manipulated the markets to keep the price down, and as a consequence, they've sold more gold and silver on paper than exists. Problem is that many countries like Germany now want their gold back and they're being told they can't have it.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2015-02-05/germany-s-gold-repatri...
1
So those with a criminal history are more likely to be involved in future criminal activity... what a surprise.
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The idea makes sense to me until I read about how the cops "Scam" the subjects. That's just inventing crimes which makes the cops the real predators to be feared by society.
10
Police…algorithms…predictive crimes intel…hmmm, what could possibly go wrong?
It’s not like this will inevitably lead to a new cluster of unarmed black men shot dead by police and even more black bodies in prison.
It’s not like this will inevitably lead to a new cluster of unarmed black men shot dead by police and even more black bodies in prison.
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IF your on the list.......
Because it couldn't be the black males fault right?!? It's the system man!!!
Black males between the age of 18 and 35 make up 1.5% of the US population and yet are responsible for more than HALF of ALL violent crimes. A black male is FOURTY times more likely to commit a violent crime than white and hispanic males COMBINED.
75% of black males in the US are born to a single Mom and the use of corporal punishment within the black culture is still embraced. If you want to blame someone other than the criminal blame the welfare state for incentivizing deadbeat dads and selfish moms.
Black males between the age of 18 and 35 make up 1.5% of the US population and yet are responsible for more than HALF of ALL violent crimes. A black male is FOURTY times more likely to commit a violent crime than white and hispanic males COMBINED.
75% of black males in the US are born to a single Mom and the use of corporal punishment within the black culture is still embraced. If you want to blame someone other than the criminal blame the welfare state for incentivizing deadbeat dads and selfish moms.
9
Well more criminals off the street, and of course they still have to be convicted in the courts.
Ever notice how MSNBC shows a constant stream of prison reality shows on weeknights and weekends? Sounds like the liberals know who their target audience is.
4
From policing to prosecutions to prison, the US criminal justice system is horribly broken and a blight on our nation.
The US has the world’s highest per capita incarceration rate —more than five times that of any Western nation and higher than the worst police state.
The US also has the world’s largest prison population —with a quarter of totalitarian China’s population, the US has almost twice as many people in prison.
All told, the United States has less than 5% of the world’s population, yet it holds almost 25% of the world’s prisoners.
Total US criminal prosecutions annually amount to almost forty percent of all prosecutions worldwide, and at more than 94%, the US has one of the world’s highest conviction rates.
Either the US is a nation of inveterate criminals or there's something drastically wrong with our criminal justice system.
Ironically, nowhere on Earth is a person more likely to go to prison, and stay there longer, than right here in the Land of the Free.
The US has the world’s highest per capita incarceration rate —more than five times that of any Western nation and higher than the worst police state.
The US also has the world’s largest prison population —with a quarter of totalitarian China’s population, the US has almost twice as many people in prison.
All told, the United States has less than 5% of the world’s population, yet it holds almost 25% of the world’s prisoners.
Total US criminal prosecutions annually amount to almost forty percent of all prosecutions worldwide, and at more than 94%, the US has one of the world’s highest conviction rates.
Either the US is a nation of inveterate criminals or there's something drastically wrong with our criminal justice system.
Ironically, nowhere on Earth is a person more likely to go to prison, and stay there longer, than right here in the Land of the Free.
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Yes when you are free and have large variance in your population criminals exist in large numbers. Yes we have a large number of criminals compared to many other countries. Simple!!!
2
Did you just say essentially this: 'We have the largest prison population because we're FREE.' I'm sure the irony completely escapes you. lol!!!
"... the US has one of the world’s highest conviction rates."
Rather than showing that "there's something drastically wrong", a high conviction rate may be evidence of the efficacy and efficiency of "our criminal justice system."
Who would prefer higher rates of unsolved crimes and more numerous unfounded, unsuccessful prosecutions? Provided that we don't conduct Stalinist show-trials, we should be proud of efficient law enforcement, not ashamed.
Rather than showing that "there's something drastically wrong", a high conviction rate may be evidence of the efficacy and efficiency of "our criminal justice system."
Who would prefer higher rates of unsolved crimes and more numerous unfounded, unsuccessful prosecutions? Provided that we don't conduct Stalinist show-trials, we should be proud of efficient law enforcement, not ashamed.
3