Future historians will have a field day. This unprecedented number of people just marching into Europe IS historic. Spontaneous or orchestrated? The dichotomies! An NYT photo of people walking and looking like they just got off a bus at Disney world, vs a tragic photo of a toddler dead on a beach. Where is the truth? Or are they both the truth? In any event, Europe and the world will not be the same. For the better? Only to the unthinking (who will come to rue their thoughtlessness) or those who think they have something to gain by this unarmed invasion of sovereign states.
5
A bit of relevant news from another article:
Despite the impression given by this and other articles that EU leaders are working on a "unified European Union policy" to deal with the migrant crisis, the UK is not participating in these meetings and is not participating in plans to distribute asylum seekers.
Britain did not accept the Schengen Agreement and retains control over its borders. Neither did Ireland.
Any "coherent and comprehensive approach" the EU comes up with will not be among the "28-nation bloc" but among no more than 27 of them, with one of the largest by economy and population not participating.
Despite the impression given by this and other articles that EU leaders are working on a "unified European Union policy" to deal with the migrant crisis, the UK is not participating in these meetings and is not participating in plans to distribute asylum seekers.
Britain did not accept the Schengen Agreement and retains control over its borders. Neither did Ireland.
Any "coherent and comprehensive approach" the EU comes up with will not be among the "28-nation bloc" but among no more than 27 of them, with one of the largest by economy and population not participating.
3
Kudos to Germany for moving up to the plate and accepting so many migrants. However, this casts a dark shadow across the rest of Europe, implying that other countries care less about the displaced peoples. Maybe this is their atonement, their time to make right the wrongs they committed decades ago, but Markel seems very interested in shaming other countries in Western Europe. The stronger nations are farther away from the entry points into Europe, which presents a large transportation problem, but it would make sense that they should carry the majority of the weight in this crisis.
1
Some time ago I asked how many migrants will it take for European countries to say "enough, we can't take any more". And how will they then deal with the issue? I suspect, as I did then, the we're going to find out.
13
I can hardly wait until European nations tell people they have spent all their taxes on these migrants. Someone is going to get real mad when they have little or no money for social services they have paid for.
20
What a tragedy. My heart goes out to our war-weary brothers and sisters. We need to pull ourselves together as a human community and address the crisis that has befallen them in Syria. Surely, we cannot countenance an empty Syria. The resistance to resettling such large numbers of people is, to some degree, legitimate. But, if we are to clarify, hold to and defend Europe's limits, we must be prepared to meet the crisis where it is. It is our moral duty. We form one human family.
I am in a way haunted by the deep blue sky hovering over the stream of migrants in the accompanying picture. In such a beautiful land, they cannot find refuge. And in Syria,their families are destabilized, their homes destroyed. We have to remember that we all want a home. Let's harness our responses, our advocacy, to ensure a home for Syrians in Syria.
I am in a way haunted by the deep blue sky hovering over the stream of migrants in the accompanying picture. In such a beautiful land, they cannot find refuge. And in Syria,their families are destabilized, their homes destroyed. We have to remember that we all want a home. Let's harness our responses, our advocacy, to ensure a home for Syrians in Syria.
1
Germany and Greece have shown an extreme level of irresponsibility.
Germany by offering a free life to any one who shows up. Greece by completely ignoring he laws of the EU.
In between, are all the citizens of the countries in Europe, who now get stuck with the bill to pay for Germany's promise, and with hundreds of thousands of undocumented, unregistered, illegal immigrants that Greece allowed in, who have spread all over Europe at this point.
If no one knew you came in, no one knows you are there. Multiply that times the number of people they guess are already in, and then expect no surprises of any kind.
Germany by offering a free life to any one who shows up. Greece by completely ignoring he laws of the EU.
In between, are all the citizens of the countries in Europe, who now get stuck with the bill to pay for Germany's promise, and with hundreds of thousands of undocumented, unregistered, illegal immigrants that Greece allowed in, who have spread all over Europe at this point.
If no one knew you came in, no one knows you are there. Multiply that times the number of people they guess are already in, and then expect no surprises of any kind.
12
It would be more constructive and fair, if the finger-pointing would stop and the world would pull together to help Europe! Europe did nothing to deserve this crisis. It also isn't an "immigration-country" contrary to the US and therefore ill equipped to deal with these outrageous numbers of refugees.
Not helping Europe to cope will eventually back-fire -also on the US.
Greece especially needs help with it all, including screening-equipment.
Not helping Europe to cope will eventually back-fire -also on the US.
Greece especially needs help with it all, including screening-equipment.
6
"They refuse to assimilate".
Of course, many Hasidic Jews refuse to send their children to public schools or allow them to date "others" not of the faith.
Can I say that Jews refuse to assimilate and don't give their first allegiance to "the homeland"?
Arial Sharon was a terrorist to the British, are all Israelis terrorist?
Of course, many Hasidic Jews refuse to send their children to public schools or allow them to date "others" not of the faith.
Can I say that Jews refuse to assimilate and don't give their first allegiance to "the homeland"?
Arial Sharon was a terrorist to the British, are all Israelis terrorist?
1
The extent of callousness of folks like Assad, ISIL "leaders," and supporters of Assad's regime like Putin and Iranian leader clerics --all of whom have have been watching all along the heartrending plight of hundreds of thousands of children, women, and elderly folks besides younger men seeking to get away from the brutality of Assad and ISIL leaders-- is simply impossible to comprehend, especially Putin and Iranian clerics whom one might have expected to be a bit less brutal than Assad and ISIL folks.
All of them are monsters in human form.
All of them are monsters in human form.
4
The "ministers" are in charge of nothing. They sold out their own when they started even entertaining the needs of invaders and the "moral obligation" hogwash. Good luck Europe.
25
One of the most effective, but may not be the easiest, way to stop this problem: prosecute those that smuggle immigrants to the fullest extent of existing laws, including life in prisons.
12
One thing for sure:
People vote with their feet.
And their feet take them to "white" European cultures.
For whatever reason:
Either they are intrinsically better.
Or they are more "welcoming".
Or both.
And they need not agonize and self-flagellate that they might not be.
The very fact that so many want to go there proves that they are.
But they will remain so
only so long as they are not overwhelmed by sheer numbers.
So the total inflow needs to be limited and controlled.
Starting with a total annual cap.
And taking strong measures to require assimilation.
Otherwise the very culture that is so attractive sinks.
People vote with their feet.
And their feet take them to "white" European cultures.
For whatever reason:
Either they are intrinsically better.
Or they are more "welcoming".
Or both.
And they need not agonize and self-flagellate that they might not be.
The very fact that so many want to go there proves that they are.
But they will remain so
only so long as they are not overwhelmed by sheer numbers.
So the total inflow needs to be limited and controlled.
Starting with a total annual cap.
And taking strong measures to require assimilation.
Otherwise the very culture that is so attractive sinks.
10
In recent years, Greece has suffered greatly economically, and does not have the capacity to absorb a significant number of migrants. That being said, the migrants are aware of this plight and are cognizant that an increased chance for opportunity lies beyond Greece’s borders. Despite all this, Greece is one of the major pathways through which refugees are entering the European bloc, and it is in chaos. It is imperative that Greece and other nations on the EU’s borders maximize efficiency in processing these migrants in order to maintain certain rule of law and best serve the interests both the Greek people and the refugees.
2
Here we go, Kerry and the Obama administration have now committed to accepting 100,000 refugees/migrants ?) just in time for the new president to deal with the security issues of letting 100,000 Syrians or who mixed in? Oh they will all just assimilate seamlessly..right. I am sure there will be plenty of single young aimless men mixed in.
19
“Open immigration can’t coexist with a strong social safety net; if you’re going to assure health care and a decent income to everyone, you can’t make that offer global.” Paul Krugman
53
And who do you figure is going to pay for that?
It's tax payers who foot the bill. Ask us, who have to pay, if we could care less about Paul Krugman's pie in the sky.
It's tax payers who foot the bill. Ask us, who have to pay, if we could care less about Paul Krugman's pie in the sky.
2
@Shark
Re-read Tired's post because I think you missed the point.
Re-read Tired's post because I think you missed the point.
14
Your point? They are being rushed out of Greece? First off, the migrants/refugees don't want to stay in Greece - it's a poor country being dismantled by the rich country - Germany - that is kind of holding out the welcome mat and encouraging the disorderly floods of Muslims (mostly young men) into Europe.
Exactly how is Greece to supposed to handle this?
And when will the Times acknowledge this aspect of the situation? Life hasn't been too friendly for the Jews of Europe lately, and Muslims have been the reason.
http://www.timesofisrael.com/for-syrian-refugees-in-italy-israel-remains...
Exactly how is Greece to supposed to handle this?
And when will the Times acknowledge this aspect of the situation? Life hasn't been too friendly for the Jews of Europe lately, and Muslims have been the reason.
http://www.timesofisrael.com/for-syrian-refugees-in-italy-israel-remains...
24
'Exactly how is Greece to supposed to handle this?'
There was something called the EU law, which Greece chose to ignore. Had Greece applied the laws that hold the EU together, this would not be happening. We cannot pick and choose which laws we like to follow, and which we choose to ignore, that's not how this works. When you do that, well, look at the mess Greece got Europe into.
There was something called the EU law, which Greece chose to ignore. Had Greece applied the laws that hold the EU together, this would not be happening. We cannot pick and choose which laws we like to follow, and which we choose to ignore, that's not how this works. When you do that, well, look at the mess Greece got Europe into.
3
Totally wrong statement, Greece is not ignoring EU laws. How can anyone stop migrants from entering from the sea? You erect a fence, as Hungary is doing. The migrants deflate their boats as they approach the Greek shores. Will you let them drown? Of course not. Have you noticed how much Hungary has been denigrated, for being protective of her borders. Lets put the blame where it belongs. Squarely on Merkel, who has sent an invitation for all of the Middle east to come to Europe
5
Germany violated EU law by inviting everybody in and suspending the Dublin rule requiring asylum seekers to be registered in the first nation they enter.
Greece, Italy, and Spain have been spending money desperately trying to keep up with the incoming migrants for years, and have requested financial and logistical assistance from the rest of the EU for years. They didn't get any.
Then, after enough pictures of dead children were shown on the news, Germany declared that migrants could come into the EU without being registered in Greece...or Hungary, or Austria, and could wait until Germany to register. Unless they wanted to go to Sweden. Then they would not have to register in Germany. They also would be able to unlawfully resist Denmark's attempts to register them, and fight their way to Sweden regardless of Danish sovereignty.
Greece was never in compliance with EU laws, not when it entered, not now. Germany and the others knew that. They also knew that Greece could not possibly conform to EU standards without massive financial aid, which was part of the plan for bringing Greece in.
When Greece needed help dealing with an EU crisis, and got none, it did what little it could.
But Germany, the strongest nation in the EU, by picking and choosing what laws would apply to it and to every other EU member state, Germany broke the EU, not just EU law.
Greece, Italy, and Spain have been spending money desperately trying to keep up with the incoming migrants for years, and have requested financial and logistical assistance from the rest of the EU for years. They didn't get any.
Then, after enough pictures of dead children were shown on the news, Germany declared that migrants could come into the EU without being registered in Greece...or Hungary, or Austria, and could wait until Germany to register. Unless they wanted to go to Sweden. Then they would not have to register in Germany. They also would be able to unlawfully resist Denmark's attempts to register them, and fight their way to Sweden regardless of Danish sovereignty.
Greece was never in compliance with EU laws, not when it entered, not now. Germany and the others knew that. They also knew that Greece could not possibly conform to EU standards without massive financial aid, which was part of the plan for bringing Greece in.
When Greece needed help dealing with an EU crisis, and got none, it did what little it could.
But Germany, the strongest nation in the EU, by picking and choosing what laws would apply to it and to every other EU member state, Germany broke the EU, not just EU law.
5
This migration is the result to the many failures of the diplomatic solutions to the humane problems faced in the Middle East and Africa in the past decades, and the dependence on too many military solutions practiced therein. Still we find authors, politicians and commentators suggesting further military solutions in the region especially in Syria. Let us wait now for the result of actions taken in Yemen. Further let us imagine how human conditions will improve or not with lack of diplomacy in Ukraine and elsewhere in East Europe.
1
A professor of mine at the University of Southern California once Stated that by the number of people being born in the third world countries that one day there would be brown cords surrounding the Western world
6
Will millennia of culture now be placed under the axe,
just to prop up German pension funds and generate more tax?
just to prop up German pension funds and generate more tax?
18
Not just the end of the EU. It's the end of Europe. Muammar Gadafi said Turkey would be a Trojan Horse allowing Muslims to take over Europe. He never dreamed Europe would wave them in openly. Better go see Notre Dame and Michelangelo's David before they're blown up. (PS: RAI pulled the story from their website; they're chicken.)
30
I fear most of all what this influx will do to Germany, the EU's most
powerful member. When Angela Merkel's CDU, Germany's center-right party, supports disastrous policies that a majority will come to bitterly resent, there is a serious risk that power in Germany will shift toward far-right parties that hearken to a genocidal legacy.
powerful member. When Angela Merkel's CDU, Germany's center-right party, supports disastrous policies that a majority will come to bitterly resent, there is a serious risk that power in Germany will shift toward far-right parties that hearken to a genocidal legacy.
10
Germany will shift toward far-right parties that hearken to a genocidal legacy that will not be tempted into a disastrous war with Russia, as it too is led by far-right parties that hearken to a genocidal legacy.
Russia has been actively waging war against its Islamic separatist residents for decades. Russia will be happy to give Germany some advice. Or cut off the flow of natural gas and let them freeze.
But right-wing anti-Islamic political beliefs and a desire not to freeze are things also shared by Poland.
It could bring a type of unity that would make Hitler and Stalin's heads explode if they were able to see it.
Russia has been actively waging war against its Islamic separatist residents for decades. Russia will be happy to give Germany some advice. Or cut off the flow of natural gas and let them freeze.
But right-wing anti-Islamic political beliefs and a desire not to freeze are things also shared by Poland.
It could bring a type of unity that would make Hitler and Stalin's heads explode if they were able to see it.
1
Well stated. Already the shift to the right politically has been in affect for many years. Far-right parties too are gaining seats in their respective governments. Germany and Norway amongst others have already demonstrated hostility on the ground level, especially in smaller towns where immigration centers are being constructed (and promptly burned upon completion). Naturally, no one knows anything about the arson, they were all int he bathroom at the time. The backlash is eminent and won;t take long to become manifest in large scale.
2
Europe is being put in a very difficult position right now. It is morally obligated to help these people, and yet it is not able. This article speaks of how difficult it is to screen these people and assign them refugee status. However, even if Europe could create a system that could have all these people registered as refugees by tomorrow, how would it gather the funds to support them?
These refugees are people and not nameless numbers waiting to be assimilated into European society. They will need healthcare, schooling, jobs, and housing if they are to find their footing in this new place. Eventually, children of these refugees will need to be incorporated into the society as well. What Europe is trying to do is simply illogical. There is no way to simply add millions of foreigners to a population and expect things to function smoothly.
These refugees are people and not nameless numbers waiting to be assimilated into European society. They will need healthcare, schooling, jobs, and housing if they are to find their footing in this new place. Eventually, children of these refugees will need to be incorporated into the society as well. What Europe is trying to do is simply illogical. There is no way to simply add millions of foreigners to a population and expect things to function smoothly.
16
"Europe is being put in a very difficult position right now. It is morally obligated to help these people"
Why is Europe "morally obligated" to those who want to turn it into part of an Islamic Caliphate?
Why is Europe "morally obligated" to those who want to turn it into part of an Islamic Caliphate?
35
'It is morally obligated to help these people'
It's immoral to tell other countries what to do.
But if you feel so bad for these masses of economic migrants, how about they all get moved to California?
It's immoral to tell other countries what to do.
But if you feel so bad for these masses of economic migrants, how about they all get moved to California?
11
Europe, no doubt in my opinion, is functioning just as it should at this moment in time. We must keep in mind that strong governing structures, especially confederations, are not put in place so that easy decisions from a homogeneous culture can be made. That is too easy.
Europe is a diverse place, and the EU's continual effort to work through this crisis is all the more necessary because of its seeming dysfunctional nature.
With nationalists like Orban in Hungary, populists like Tsipras in Greece, a culturally bifurcated Italy, its a wonder that most people in the region are still doing so well. And the fact that the governments of these leaders don't cooperate so naturally with others in their super-structure the EU, shouldn't be surprising.
We can see in this article Orban's aggressive and insulting rhetoric toward Greece, and Greece's sheer overwhelmedness by the numbers of people arriving on their shores. But the fact that Greece is able to send these migrants Somewhere because of their partners in the EU making that possible, is a very big deal. Eventually this crisis will be managed, and relatively well compared to how most other regions would handle it, and that will make the EU all the more justified, strong, and perhaps even appreciated in the years and decades to come.
Europe is a diverse place, and the EU's continual effort to work through this crisis is all the more necessary because of its seeming dysfunctional nature.
With nationalists like Orban in Hungary, populists like Tsipras in Greece, a culturally bifurcated Italy, its a wonder that most people in the region are still doing so well. And the fact that the governments of these leaders don't cooperate so naturally with others in their super-structure the EU, shouldn't be surprising.
We can see in this article Orban's aggressive and insulting rhetoric toward Greece, and Greece's sheer overwhelmedness by the numbers of people arriving on their shores. But the fact that Greece is able to send these migrants Somewhere because of their partners in the EU making that possible, is a very big deal. Eventually this crisis will be managed, and relatively well compared to how most other regions would handle it, and that will make the EU all the more justified, strong, and perhaps even appreciated in the years and decades to come.
3
What about the return policy? Do you think Europe will welcome the migrant/refugee/asylum folks indefinitely? I don't. If I were them i'd make it clear that they go home as soon as the dust settles where they came from and not get too comfortable.
3
Paul,
Every day we see more and more hostility between the West and the Middle East. It should one of our top priorities, as citizens of an increasingly interdependent and connected world, to mend that relationship. To be honest, this migration crisis seems like a great opportunity to do just that.
The Middle East as an aggregate has done some pretty terrible stuff, but the West has wreaked a chaos unto that region beyond almost any Westerner's understanding. (And a side not here: the dust won't be settling in Iraq, for instance, for quite a while, thanks to our country's actions not too long ago.)
Both cultures need to work to make that relationship less toxic or the whole world will be dealing with this problem for much too long.
So please, brother, when you talk about these people facing such extraordinary trials of the soul, be generous and kind in your tone.
And regarding the return policy... It's important to remember that humans have a remarkable ability to quickly assimilate to a land, and once they have grown rooted there, I sure do think its an awful sight to push any people "into the sea," so to speak.
Every day we see more and more hostility between the West and the Middle East. It should one of our top priorities, as citizens of an increasingly interdependent and connected world, to mend that relationship. To be honest, this migration crisis seems like a great opportunity to do just that.
The Middle East as an aggregate has done some pretty terrible stuff, but the West has wreaked a chaos unto that region beyond almost any Westerner's understanding. (And a side not here: the dust won't be settling in Iraq, for instance, for quite a while, thanks to our country's actions not too long ago.)
Both cultures need to work to make that relationship less toxic or the whole world will be dealing with this problem for much too long.
So please, brother, when you talk about these people facing such extraordinary trials of the soul, be generous and kind in your tone.
And regarding the return policy... It's important to remember that humans have a remarkable ability to quickly assimilate to a land, and once they have grown rooted there, I sure do think its an awful sight to push any people "into the sea," so to speak.
Global migrant and refugee crisis.
The. Obama. Legacy.
The. Obama. Legacy.
13
The Dubya/Neocon legacy.
18
DCBarrister, your repetition is getting old. Get ready for another Democratic President. That's just the way it is.
1
@DC Barrister Washington, DC
Might be time to put to pick up the History books.... Here's a hint. Start with WMD.
Might be time to put to pick up the History books.... Here's a hint. Start with WMD.
1
Migration used to be seen as more of a duty to protect the rights of humans--now it is being seen by the 28 countries as more of an inconvenience. Rather than dedicating resources to cater to the welfare of these migrants, countries are implementing their funds into border security and immigration laws. The EU has been attempting to counter the influx with minor laws like the Dublin Regulation and the Bossi-Fini immigration law--which have both had too many repercussions and too little effect. The EU needs to implement a decisive, unanimous ruling on the crisis, rather than have all 28 nations be inconsistently scattered in opinion and in constant argument. However, seeing as though Europe is too diverse politically, religiously, and culturally to settle an agreement between all nations--each country have to balance their duty to act as refuge nations and their desire to remain in their best interests as a nation.
1
LA, blissfully unaware of reality.
These are not a family or three. These are hundreds of thousands of people, moving to Germany for a free house, money and food. It has been noted on and on, that most are economic migrants, moving from peaceful lands, towards Germany in search of free living. How do you figure it is Germany's responsibility to care for them?
If tomorrow, 20000 Latins showed up at San Isidro, and demanded the US took them all, the USA and specially California would put up a fight. But somehow, when this occurs to Germany, well, it is their responsibility to care for all these economic migrants?
These are not a family or three. These are hundreds of thousands of people, moving to Germany for a free house, money and food. It has been noted on and on, that most are economic migrants, moving from peaceful lands, towards Germany in search of free living. How do you figure it is Germany's responsibility to care for them?
If tomorrow, 20000 Latins showed up at San Isidro, and demanded the US took them all, the USA and specially California would put up a fight. But somehow, when this occurs to Germany, well, it is their responsibility to care for all these economic migrants?
8
Right, they call it "benefits tourism" in Germany.
1
Europe's response to the migration crisis has revealed how they can not come together as a "union" to solve a crisis. Europe is having a hard time honoring what they stand for by not providing refugee to these migrants. Europe is more focused on building barbed wire fences and forcing these migrants out of places rather than into places. Hungary and Greece have denied refuge away from these migrants while Germany has said they will take up to 1,000,000 migrants in the next year. These acts reveal that Europe does not have a unified view on this crisis. In this situation, it seems Europe has made the crisis into a black and white situation when in reality, there needs to be a compromise with all states.
Overall, Europe is more focused on protecting itself by seeing this crisis as a security issue rather than one that falls under a humanitarian crisis.
Overall, Europe is more focused on protecting itself by seeing this crisis as a security issue rather than one that falls under a humanitarian crisis.
1
Ever went out with friends, to a super expensive restaurant, with money enough for a salad, just to find out that you have to pay half the bill for their lobster dinner?
Same thing. Germany might have the money to care for economic migrants, but the other tini countries do not. Germany invited one and all, and now the little countries have to foot the bill. So yes, they might be upset about Germany's unilateral actions, and who can blame them.
Same thing. Germany might have the money to care for economic migrants, but the other tini countries do not. Germany invited one and all, and now the little countries have to foot the bill. So yes, they might be upset about Germany's unilateral actions, and who can blame them.
4
I wrote here two weeks ago, when the crisis was just developing, that Europe cannot open its borders to these immigrants because the flood would not stop. At that time most people posted PC comments welcoming the immigrants, mainly after the pictures of the drowned Syrian boy. Two weeks later, when thousands of immigrants arrive to Europe each day, every person with some sense understands that this cannot continue: Europe must shut its borders and Now!
I am a Jew so please do not compare this situation with that of Jewish refugees. First, Jews were already Europeans when they were seeking refuge from persecution in other European countries, And second, Jews did not have shelter countries (funded by the UN) to save them.
But the most urgent argument is that the population Europe is receiving now is a potential atomic bomb for the future of Europe, AND for its Jewish population. Already now Jews cannot live openly as Jews in many areas of France, Belgium, and Britain, because of Muslim anti-Jewism. We hear constantly in the media about Muslims who have lived for years in Europe, suddenly adopt the most extreme Jihadi ideology. This can be first, second or 10th generation of immigrants.
It seems to me that Europe, lead by Germany, lost its head. It seems that Germans, because of WW2, are afraid to seem racist if they reject these immigrants. You won't! The world needs a healthy Europe, not another third world country.
I am a Jew so please do not compare this situation with that of Jewish refugees. First, Jews were already Europeans when they were seeking refuge from persecution in other European countries, And second, Jews did not have shelter countries (funded by the UN) to save them.
But the most urgent argument is that the population Europe is receiving now is a potential atomic bomb for the future of Europe, AND for its Jewish population. Already now Jews cannot live openly as Jews in many areas of France, Belgium, and Britain, because of Muslim anti-Jewism. We hear constantly in the media about Muslims who have lived for years in Europe, suddenly adopt the most extreme Jihadi ideology. This can be first, second or 10th generation of immigrants.
It seems to me that Europe, lead by Germany, lost its head. It seems that Germans, because of WW2, are afraid to seem racist if they reject these immigrants. You won't! The world needs a healthy Europe, not another third world country.
58
Among my concerns, is what will happen to the Jews of Europe with this massive influx of Syrian and other Muslim migrants -- who openly hate Jews and Israel. The situation is already terrible in places like France and Belgium -- my god, what will it be like with 2-3 million Muslim migrants?
21
I still think they should have to sign an agreement of assimilation which will outline, clearly, the rules of this/that country which includes women's rights, secular education, religious freedoms, acceptance of cartoons and films, etc, etc. All immigrants sign this agreement to follow the rules or leave on the next boat or plane or whatever. And this goes for all in your family for two generations. Anybody in there screws up, you all go back where you came from. It should be politically correct to inform people what they are signing up for in their new country. As long as there aren't any problems, they are free to thrive. They will have been forewarned and so should know the consequences.
Exactly! While the latent anti-Semitism exists within the older white populace in most European countries, their temporary ally is the Muslims. However, fearing cultural loss and takeover, this will change and the crisis will most likely hasten what has already been taking place since 9/11. More Norway Shooters who actually target Muslims? Probably. But they will target the political parties they blame for allowing multiculturalism to spread, and this is a hot topic in academic research right now.
2
Even though Europe has approved the relocation plan, nothing is changing just yet because this is a level of chaos that will not be halted by something as relatively miniscule as the approval of a plan.
However I have problem with the idea of the “first reception facilities.” How does this help anything? Sure, economic migrants will get refugee status sooner, but why should they? What makes their problem more legitimate than the plight of these people from Syria and Lebanon who are fleeing war and persecution by their own government? In addition, even if their problem is more legitimate, which it is not, this will not do anything to lessen the sheer number of people flowing into these countries, as the number of people coming to Europe for economic reasons is nothing compared to those fleeing war and chaotic conditions.
At the very least, the people coming to Europe looking for a safe home and living conditions that are at least relatively sustainable should have precedence over those coming to Europe solely for a better economic opportunity.
However I have problem with the idea of the “first reception facilities.” How does this help anything? Sure, economic migrants will get refugee status sooner, but why should they? What makes their problem more legitimate than the plight of these people from Syria and Lebanon who are fleeing war and persecution by their own government? In addition, even if their problem is more legitimate, which it is not, this will not do anything to lessen the sheer number of people flowing into these countries, as the number of people coming to Europe for economic reasons is nothing compared to those fleeing war and chaotic conditions.
At the very least, the people coming to Europe looking for a safe home and living conditions that are at least relatively sustainable should have precedence over those coming to Europe solely for a better economic opportunity.
5
'However I have problem with the idea of the “first reception facilities.” How does this help anything?'
It should be obvious, but here you go.
Let's explain how this works to you. When you go visit another country, you apply for a visa, go through immigration, and if you are who you say you are, you are allowed to pass. why? because you are welcome in.
This is how it should work here too. A desk, where actual refugees, show up, ID themselves, get an asylum application, and are allowed to pass, because they are welcome. And the economic migrants who are taking advantage of this confusion, well, they get sent back home to Egypt, Pakistan, Albania, Iran, etc. This discourages other economic migrants from making the trip. It also helps to deter ISIS agents from mingling with the crowd.
Without this desk, there is a mass influx and everyone gets in, no matter why or how they got there. And we have the mass chaos we have now.
It should be obvious, but here you go.
Let's explain how this works to you. When you go visit another country, you apply for a visa, go through immigration, and if you are who you say you are, you are allowed to pass. why? because you are welcome in.
This is how it should work here too. A desk, where actual refugees, show up, ID themselves, get an asylum application, and are allowed to pass, because they are welcome. And the economic migrants who are taking advantage of this confusion, well, they get sent back home to Egypt, Pakistan, Albania, Iran, etc. This discourages other economic migrants from making the trip. It also helps to deter ISIS agents from mingling with the crowd.
Without this desk, there is a mass influx and everyone gets in, no matter why or how they got there. And we have the mass chaos we have now.
3
I wonder why Muslim countries are not taking most refugees from Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc. What is Dubai, Saudi Arabia, Arabian Emirates - all very wealthy nations - doing about this mostly Muslim migration? Why they are not obligated to take them in?
20
Because they don't share the humanist values of the awful imperialist, sexist, homophobic etc. West.
6
Because most of these economic migrants do not come from Syria. they come from Albania, Pakistan, Iran, Afghanistan, Angola, etc.
Thus no country is obliged to take in people just because they want a free ride in your gravy train.
Thus no country is obliged to take in people just because they want a free ride in your gravy train.
1
Countries reluctant to take in Muslim refugees expose a dangerous situation, similar to the United States xenophobic action towards Japanese Americans during World War II. The relocation program takes out refugees from Greece and Italy and places them in some nations that are unwilling to take in these refugees. During times of hardship, historically we have seen that national security can be prioritized over human rights. Countries that are disinterested in taking in these refugees will prioritize their security as a nation over the rights of the asylum seekers. When Japanese Americans were detained during World War II, America cited that the detention of Japanese Americans was in the interest of “national security”, when in reality, they subjected the Japanese Americans based on their heritage. A similar event could transpire in the countries that are not open to receiving the Syrian refugees. Rather than distributing the refugees based on the country’s wealth and population, the refugees should be redistributed based on the countries that are willing to take in the refugees. Doing so will prevent inevitable human rights violations.
1
Just say "no."
Go back to where you came from.
There is a legal process to relocate.
Syria is a gigantic country and there are plenty of places to relocate. Maybe not as comfortable as these "refugees" are used to, but they are there.
Am I my brother's keeper?
My BROTHER, yes.
Hoards of Syrians looking for a better life?
No.
Go back to where you came from.
There is a legal process to relocate.
Syria is a gigantic country and there are plenty of places to relocate. Maybe not as comfortable as these "refugees" are used to, but they are there.
Am I my brother's keeper?
My BROTHER, yes.
Hoards of Syrians looking for a better life?
No.
24
Hoards of Syrians, maybe.
Hoards of people taking advantage of this confusion, so they can enjoy Germany's welfare system? absolutely no.
Hoards of people taking advantage of this confusion, so they can enjoy Germany's welfare system? absolutely no.
2
Germany is again at it. That country has again rushed into espousing some type of very large scale fantasy that it wants to impose on others. First they want to make it mandatory for any country to accept migrants. Second, when those migrants will become permanent resident in Germany they will move wherever they want in the union as they please, and against the will of other countries. What if the millions who arrived this year suddenly decide to relocate in Hungary, would not they make it de facto their own country? Could that be called a successful invasion? What would be the recourse of the locals? Germany is again creating enormous problems for the rest of Europe, and they don't seem to accept the slightest criticism of their grandiose, fantasist plan. I thought German people were very grounded, but it seems that there is a point where their rationality snaps, and we can observe that with VW, which decided to cheat irrationally, when it was sure that they could not keep their large scale fraud a secret. Please German people do not run your fantasy experiment in Europe, it's not a good idea to start with and if it doesn't work there is no way to repair it. Please think that Germany has already done vast scale fantasist experiments in the past, on many occasions, and that it didn't turn well. This experiment has an opposite face of what you've done before but in essence it is the same: total arrogance towards your neighbor and ignorance of reality.
28
When you have a culture that is radically different, not democratic, with rigid customs and gender norms largely incompatible with western values, and which based on past experience does not integrate well if at all into a host country's culture...common sense says we in the west are headed for a disaster.
The wealthy oil countries of the mid east should take in the refugees, and the US and others can send food and perhaps other aid. But the west cannot solve this crisis by admitting millions that in the long run will create an enormous problem of incompatibility, strife and endless welfare.
The wealthy oil countries of the mid east should take in the refugees, and the US and others can send food and perhaps other aid. But the west cannot solve this crisis by admitting millions that in the long run will create an enormous problem of incompatibility, strife and endless welfare.
27
Here's the problem with socialists. They soak all the earners for every penny, redistributing it (badly) through a bureaucracy-choked government. When every last penny/Euro is stolen, they have nothing left for the NEXT group of greedy dependents.
Sad, but an important lesson for us to learn...
Sad, but an important lesson for us to learn...
13
mr california,
A 2000 study placed France number one in the quality of overall healthcare while spending 55% what we, the US spent (in GDP).
BTW: we ranked 38th..
average US male lifespan was, at that time equal, to Albanian men...
A 2000 study placed France number one in the quality of overall healthcare while spending 55% what we, the US spent (in GDP).
BTW: we ranked 38th..
average US male lifespan was, at that time equal, to Albanian men...
1
The wisdom of Abraham Lincoln in his Second Inaugural comes to my mind. He expressed slavery as a human "woe", and its presence brought an "offense", the Civil War. So too we have the "offense" of forced migration to escape the "woe" of cruel governments, and factions residing in those countries. Lincoln went on to say that upheaval would continue until the "woe" not the "offense" was resolved.
He had one other salient thought. Things once thought right can be shown to be wrong. A revised sense of justice with new knowledge must rule the day.
He ended with a secular benediction:
"With malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in, to bind up the nation's wounds, to care for him who shall have borne the battle and for his widow and his orphan, to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace among ourselves and with all nations."
His words fell mostly on deaf ears that day, and the struggle to bring harmony continues. The Pope today has reiterated that same message. The people of the world have another chance to listen, and learn.
He had one other salient thought. Things once thought right can be shown to be wrong. A revised sense of justice with new knowledge must rule the day.
He ended with a secular benediction:
"With malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in, to bind up the nation's wounds, to care for him who shall have borne the battle and for his widow and his orphan, to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace among ourselves and with all nations."
His words fell mostly on deaf ears that day, and the struggle to bring harmony continues. The Pope today has reiterated that same message. The people of the world have another chance to listen, and learn.
2
What we are now witnessing is the unraveling of Europe as we know it. If the mass migrations continue at this pace, the continent itself will become the next over crowded lifeboat.
There comes a point where action must be taken, and that point is now. Things will not get any better with winter fast approaching, and supplies starting to dwindle. A temporary halt of the buses and trains will not solve the problem of letting too many through the borders in the first place. The EU had best get its house in order before it all implodes.
There comes a point where action must be taken, and that point is now. Things will not get any better with winter fast approaching, and supplies starting to dwindle. A temporary halt of the buses and trains will not solve the problem of letting too many through the borders in the first place. The EU had best get its house in order before it all implodes.
29
N. Smith
The Europe "as we know it" was little more than a pious trade agreement.
France has been a country of immigrants since Napoleon.
France has benefited from immigration.
Post WWII Germany benefited from the Kurdish labor force.
The numbers do not support your contention for Europe being "the
next over crowded lifeboat".
The concerns of many on this page would be better served fighting wealth disparity.
The Europe "as we know it" was little more than a pious trade agreement.
France has been a country of immigrants since Napoleon.
France has benefited from immigration.
Post WWII Germany benefited from the Kurdish labor force.
The numbers do not support your contention for Europe being "the
next over crowded lifeboat".
The concerns of many on this page would be better served fighting wealth disparity.
2
Ah, yes, France has definitely benefited from immigration. What would native Parisians do without being able to observe the popular summertime activity, engaged in by the bored young unemployed from distant lands, of burning vehicles on the street? As for the remark about the Kurds, those were Turks, not Kurds. Turks since the time of Attaturk were secular, and work oriented. These people are a big question mark, with many having thrown their IDs into the Med and refusing to be fingerprinted. If 1/10th of 1% are sympathetic to ISIS, Europe has a big problem on its hands. Before this started, there were too many suspects for the security services to monitor, which is why - but for three Yanks and Brit - there was almost a catastrophe last month on a train bound for Paris.
13
France has benefited from European immigration that has successfully integrated into french society by accepting its laws and traditions. On the other hand, Muslim immigration comes with its own laws and traditions that they will never change (including submission of women and opposing equal rights) and therefore do not integrate well and are a burden to the French society, which has to pay them generous social benefits that do not exist in any Muslim country on the earth.
4
It's never pleasant to encounter our nativist underbelly when matters of the "other" and the issue of race hit the front page.
A few points:
1) Multiculturalism is one of the main factors that make our country dynamic.
(w/out immigration, we would most likely be a sad, isolated lot)
2) I'm confident that most the anti-refugee drivel on this page is posted by people who went along blindly with our self-inflicted wounds of the Iraq & Afghan wars; never criticized our meddling across the globe (such as our coup in 1950's democratic Iran) nor bother to question the Israeli subjugation of the Palestinian.
Also, I doubt many of the commenters have stood up against climate change.
(just watch the numbers go up) Syria had been hit by drought the years preceding the uprising against Assad.
3) Regardless of your Fox News soundbites, postwar France and Germany never seriously engaged to take the Kurd & N.African laborers (badly needed in the '50's) in as full partners. They actually nurtured xenophobia for political gain just as Nixon and Reagan did with their "Southern Strategy".
4) After WWII, the Americans and the Europeans wrote the current laws on refugees for a reason. We are legally committed to respect those laws.
If we had had those laws in 1935, far less people would have perished in the death camps.
5) If you want to seriously fight mass immigration, ask Washington to divert our military spending to sustainable development in Africa and Central America.
A few points:
1) Multiculturalism is one of the main factors that make our country dynamic.
(w/out immigration, we would most likely be a sad, isolated lot)
2) I'm confident that most the anti-refugee drivel on this page is posted by people who went along blindly with our self-inflicted wounds of the Iraq & Afghan wars; never criticized our meddling across the globe (such as our coup in 1950's democratic Iran) nor bother to question the Israeli subjugation of the Palestinian.
Also, I doubt many of the commenters have stood up against climate change.
(just watch the numbers go up) Syria had been hit by drought the years preceding the uprising against Assad.
3) Regardless of your Fox News soundbites, postwar France and Germany never seriously engaged to take the Kurd & N.African laborers (badly needed in the '50's) in as full partners. They actually nurtured xenophobia for political gain just as Nixon and Reagan did with their "Southern Strategy".
4) After WWII, the Americans and the Europeans wrote the current laws on refugees for a reason. We are legally committed to respect those laws.
If we had had those laws in 1935, far less people would have perished in the death camps.
5) If you want to seriously fight mass immigration, ask Washington to divert our military spending to sustainable development in Africa and Central America.
1
While I'm sure some of the commenters are right-wing racists, I don't think you should jump to characterize them all in that way. There are nuances among people that identify with a particular philosophy.
I consider myself a liberal, I do believe we caused this mess with our meddling wars, I do believe in climate change, and I think FOX news is an abomination. I also think that you can't open the floodgates to Europe and throw rose petals on hundreds of thousands of people as they push their way in.
Our country is a great multicultural country, and I am proud that my family and I immigrated here. However, this must be done in an orderly and safe way, with immigrants being screened for immunizations, health, etc. There have to be realistic limits on numbers of people coming in, and Europe has to be allowed some time to build the infrastructure to support this.
I consider myself a liberal, I do believe we caused this mess with our meddling wars, I do believe in climate change, and I think FOX news is an abomination. I also think that you can't open the floodgates to Europe and throw rose petals on hundreds of thousands of people as they push their way in.
Our country is a great multicultural country, and I am proud that my family and I immigrated here. However, this must be done in an orderly and safe way, with immigrants being screened for immunizations, health, etc. There have to be realistic limits on numbers of people coming in, and Europe has to be allowed some time to build the infrastructure to support this.
11
Re multiculturalism: I wonder how many open borders advocates who appeal to multiculturalism consider that a place like Texas, will actually be less "diverse" fifty years from now?
6
Jules,
The numbers don't equate to "flood gates".
I don't disagree that a system needs to be put in place.
A lottery system that appoints families to different countries with professionals prioritized to countries where they are most useful.
Yet, Iraq and Syria did not pop up yesterday.
We should have seen this coming.
You must admit, a good number of these comments are xenophobic/racist.
With weather patterns out of wack, we should be putting plans in place now.
The numbers don't equate to "flood gates".
I don't disagree that a system needs to be put in place.
A lottery system that appoints families to different countries with professionals prioritized to countries where they are most useful.
Yet, Iraq and Syria did not pop up yesterday.
We should have seen this coming.
You must admit, a good number of these comments are xenophobic/racist.
With weather patterns out of wack, we should be putting plans in place now.
The EU as usual reached an agreement which they will not implement. But EU unity was preserved which seems to be more important than actually doing anything.
The failure of the EU states to maintain a functioning army really demonstrates that they made a mistake in thinking that getting the US taxpayer to subsidize their defense via NATO would absolve them from having the expense of their own army.
The EU needs military force right now to hold back the migrants and corral them in detentions camp ("hotspots") while they try and identify exactly who each one is and whether they really are true refuges or merely economic migrants.
Everyone of course will claim asylum, backed up by a suitable sob story, so some of the decisions will have to be made purely on country of origin alone. Those who come from countries that are not at war probably should be immediately deported. I saw a lot of interviews with young males who admitted they were just coming to make money.
But waiting until November to set up detention camps is allowing thousands of migrants to arrive and roam through the EU. Armies should be sent to the borders now to start arresting people or pushing boats back out to sea. They also need to send a message that EUROPE IS CLOSED. That all migrants who arrive now will be deported.
The failure of the EU states to maintain a functioning army really demonstrates that they made a mistake in thinking that getting the US taxpayer to subsidize their defense via NATO would absolve them from having the expense of their own army.
The EU needs military force right now to hold back the migrants and corral them in detentions camp ("hotspots") while they try and identify exactly who each one is and whether they really are true refuges or merely economic migrants.
Everyone of course will claim asylum, backed up by a suitable sob story, so some of the decisions will have to be made purely on country of origin alone. Those who come from countries that are not at war probably should be immediately deported. I saw a lot of interviews with young males who admitted they were just coming to make money.
But waiting until November to set up detention camps is allowing thousands of migrants to arrive and roam through the EU. Armies should be sent to the borders now to start arresting people or pushing boats back out to sea. They also need to send a message that EUROPE IS CLOSED. That all migrants who arrive now will be deported.
15
Germany should contract the Greeks out to baby sit the economic migrants and filter and screen the ones who are genuine versus those looking for a free lunch or looking to commit acts of terror.
That would help both alleviate this crisis and improve employment in Greece, help Greece pay its debt back to Germany too.
2 birds, 1 stone.
dc for President 2016.
That would help both alleviate this crisis and improve employment in Greece, help Greece pay its debt back to Germany too.
2 birds, 1 stone.
dc for President 2016.
3
The NYT complains Greece is not doing what the EU wants on migrants - a totally unrealistic demand.
26% of Greeks are unemployed, 30% are in poverty - many are dying because the healthcare system can not buy basic drugs.
Spend millions, billions on a bunch of unwanted ECONOMIC migrants? Not bloody likely.
EU wants them processed? Then the EU can PAY for it & provide the equipment & staff.
From the latest EU data
(1) 62.1% are odds on ECONOMIC migrants based upon their country of origin - no wars, just greed.
(2) ONLY 20.9% claim to be from Syria
ONLY 12.7% claim to be from Afghanistan
ONLY 4.3% claim to be from Eritrea
Those are the ONLY nationalities that have better than a 75% of being declared a refugee and given asylum
The NYT is closing its eyes to
(1) Fake Syrian passports -- 2 British reporters bought them in less than 2 days
(2) Lying migrants who claim they are Syrian but can't speak a word of Arabic or whose Arabic is not Syrian. but are from Algerian, Albania, Iraq, Lebanon, Egypt, North Africa, Bangladesh, Kosovo (WaPo)
Opportunistic liars.
The mandatory quota will NEVER work. None of these migrants comply with the law - they avoid registering, throw rocks & riot.
Make them move to Estonia & they are gonna take off to where they want to go.
THreaten to deport them & cut off their welfare if they illegally move from the country assigned to another?
Yeah that threat has worked so well for the US with illegal migrants
26% of Greeks are unemployed, 30% are in poverty - many are dying because the healthcare system can not buy basic drugs.
Spend millions, billions on a bunch of unwanted ECONOMIC migrants? Not bloody likely.
EU wants them processed? Then the EU can PAY for it & provide the equipment & staff.
From the latest EU data
(1) 62.1% are odds on ECONOMIC migrants based upon their country of origin - no wars, just greed.
(2) ONLY 20.9% claim to be from Syria
ONLY 12.7% claim to be from Afghanistan
ONLY 4.3% claim to be from Eritrea
Those are the ONLY nationalities that have better than a 75% of being declared a refugee and given asylum
The NYT is closing its eyes to
(1) Fake Syrian passports -- 2 British reporters bought them in less than 2 days
(2) Lying migrants who claim they are Syrian but can't speak a word of Arabic or whose Arabic is not Syrian. but are from Algerian, Albania, Iraq, Lebanon, Egypt, North Africa, Bangladesh, Kosovo (WaPo)
Opportunistic liars.
The mandatory quota will NEVER work. None of these migrants comply with the law - they avoid registering, throw rocks & riot.
Make them move to Estonia & they are gonna take off to where they want to go.
THreaten to deport them & cut off their welfare if they illegally move from the country assigned to another?
Yeah that threat has worked so well for the US with illegal migrants
50
What you write here is the TRUTH. The lefty media is lying on this issue, to promote their "open borders" and "multi-culturalism" and of course, to increase the welfare state.
And they say that the right wing "lies". Nothing can top the ceaseless lies from the LEFT.
And they say that the right wing "lies". Nothing can top the ceaseless lies from the LEFT.
The EU really needs to form an oversight body that would be in charge of immigration. Rules need to be formed to distribute the migrants fairly among the member states. Putting up fences and roadblocks isn't going to solve the problem.
2
As Trump has been saying you must have secure borders. Europe is in chaos, I feel sorry for the people as they will pay for this problem which should not be theirs, for generations to come.
30
The idea of the EU and the Euro was to foster interdependence -- the thinking being that interdependence would eliminate the possibility of another european war. This idea was around even before WWI -- after WWII as the old guard died and Europe was eventually governed by the children of the war -- the EU was born and then the Euro. In the mid 80's I was a US student in London -- no one dared broach the subject of the EU being bad idea. That would be like someone today questioning climate change -- it was unthinkable in academia. I once compared the idea of the EU with our 50 states -- wondering how Europe would account for differing economic outputs -- be it size or productivity. I was ...naturally informed ... it was different in Europe. We in the USA take for granted that Mississippi gets more from the federal government then NY. Or that a longtime Senator (no dead) from WV could command such power VS NY.
I never remember any deep discussions about immigration -- The EU was about and for Europe .... especially in the 80's with the USA placing rockets on British soil (remember that!) Europe never thought about immigration -- why would they? The Germans wanted to stay in Germany on the French in France! This only became somewhat of a problem as the EU and Euro expanded eastward and the old eastern block countries started exporting much needed labor to the west.
Europe has no history of immigration. People moved because of conflict.
I never remember any deep discussions about immigration -- The EU was about and for Europe .... especially in the 80's with the USA placing rockets on British soil (remember that!) Europe never thought about immigration -- why would they? The Germans wanted to stay in Germany on the French in France! This only became somewhat of a problem as the EU and Euro expanded eastward and the old eastern block countries started exporting much needed labor to the west.
Europe has no history of immigration. People moved because of conflict.
8
Dear editor, judging by the intellectual level of many of the postings on this page, I see no reason why you declined to allow my earlier comment.
The barely suppressed bigotry on this page is sad to witness. Earlier versions of these comments can be found in 1800's Boston papers lamenting the end of civilization due to the hoards of sub-human Irish-Catholics infiltrating "our fine city".
Hypocrisy has no bounds.
What a classic grouping of xenophobes.
The barely suppressed bigotry on this page is sad to witness. Earlier versions of these comments can be found in 1800's Boston papers lamenting the end of civilization due to the hoards of sub-human Irish-Catholics infiltrating "our fine city".
Hypocrisy has no bounds.
What a classic grouping of xenophobes.
3
Clark,
This is a democracy in the US. People are allowed tohold different views with you. And the NYTimes can even publish those views.
You'd probably be more comfortable with something like Sharia law. Then you could crucify dissenters (like Saudi Arabia is doing yo the young many who went to a democracy rally) or any 'classic grouping' that disagrees with you.
This is a democracy in the US. People are allowed tohold different views with you. And the NYTimes can even publish those views.
You'd probably be more comfortable with something like Sharia law. Then you could crucify dissenters (like Saudi Arabia is doing yo the young many who went to a democracy rally) or any 'classic grouping' that disagrees with you.
2
You might be mistaken. I saw an earlier comment from you. They really don't censer.
This is madness. Look at all these young, military-age men flooding into the west (70% of the migrants, by UN figures). How many of them were beheading people in Syria last week? How many Tsarnaev brothers (who also called themselves refugees) are in these crowds?
Why are we fighting wars for them while they come to suckle at the welfare state? Where is their honor and their dedication to their countries?
Why are we fighting wars for them while they come to suckle at the welfare state? Where is their honor and their dedication to their countries?
43
The loveliest, most modern, enlightened part of the world is (to my mind) Europe. To fil this rare beacon of art, music, science, freedom, with people who have no concept whatsoever nor any wish to accept it will doom Europe. These people are not arriving in splintered rowboats; they are enscnced in expensive boats moving people who have never fought for their freedom, who don't value education, who will never assimilate, whose last uprising was, what, in 720 AD? With Europe in tatters, there is nothing to repace its blessings and industry.
39
Indeed this refugee crisis reveals the sclerotic bureaucracy within the European Union. Myopic policymakers have underestimated the vulnerability of countries on the EU outer borders.
"Hot spots" that serve as "first reception facilities" were "proposed five months ago, they should be up and running in Greece and Italy by the end of November". This may be too little too late, because the migrants want to arrive before winter sets in.
The Greeks themselves are more then happy to let the migrants move on without much ado. Perhaps out of resentment for the austerity measures imposed by Brussels. Besides they lack human resources and hi-tech equipment to register each person electronically.
Grigorios Apostolou, a former Greek police officer made an interesting point, saying the migrants "“are far more flexible than we are” and know how to outfox cumbersome bureaucracies. They are a lot faster, too, often moving within minutes of their arrival in Piraeus to head north".
The influx appears to be more like a strategically planned movement and not an impetuous flight from a warzone.
"Hot spots" that serve as "first reception facilities" were "proposed five months ago, they should be up and running in Greece and Italy by the end of November". This may be too little too late, because the migrants want to arrive before winter sets in.
The Greeks themselves are more then happy to let the migrants move on without much ado. Perhaps out of resentment for the austerity measures imposed by Brussels. Besides they lack human resources and hi-tech equipment to register each person electronically.
Grigorios Apostolou, a former Greek police officer made an interesting point, saying the migrants "“are far more flexible than we are” and know how to outfox cumbersome bureaucracies. They are a lot faster, too, often moving within minutes of their arrival in Piraeus to head north".
The influx appears to be more like a strategically planned movement and not an impetuous flight from a warzone.
25
I thought I was always a liberal but the NYT made me realize that I'm a conservative!
43
I hope policy makers here in the U.S. are taking careful notes, and making emergency plans of our own. I agree with the many commenter who have speculated that this massive uncontrolled migration will become commonplace all over the globe as the number of humans outstrips resources in the near future, due to over population and climate change. There will be a tidal wave of humanity trying to relocate from chaotic, lawless, regions of deprivation, toward more organized societies, who will be unable to take them all in.
Until recently I assumed this dystopian scene would play out after my days (63 years old). Now it's plain to see, it is well under way.
Until recently I assumed this dystopian scene would play out after my days (63 years old). Now it's plain to see, it is well under way.
38
I had hoped to be gone by then, too, now at 65! And thankfully, by choice, childless.
1
I find all these comments may be missing the real issue on this planet. The populace of the world has come to a place where each individual believes they have a "Right" to go to the country of their choice, legally or not. The justifications cover the world of evils from the horror of war to poor living conditions to a desire for more opportunity. The math is relatively simple..there are geometrically more people who want the best places than there are best places so what will eventually (probably not so eventually) occur is the best will cease being the best and the world will become one mass of homogenized soup which cease to be the best place. Or even worse, various areas of the "Best Place" will become enclaves of great to miserable areas and then look out! .This in no way is a judgement of right or wrong but just one fellows concern abut what is really happening at the macro level.
17
No one is missing the issue. Commenters here on the NY Times have been saying the very same thing for years -- the kumbaya diversity elites, using the carrot and sticks of Political Correctness, are working to turn the first world into the third world.
19
I agree. We're rapidly approaching the point where we have countries without borders. When I was young, the population of the planet was 3B. Now it's 7B, soon to be 9B, and later on in the century, 11B. We're already laying waste to our oceans, with vast islands of plastic debris - one in the Pacific the size of Texas, with plastic so thick you can walk on it. Think of the decimation of the fisheries. Cities in the southern hemisphere, referred to as "mega-slum cities", are already having severe problems in housing their residents and providing them with food and potable water. When the infrastructure breaks down completely, many of those people, instead of just tolerating the situation, with vote with their feet and head north, to the U.S.
11
Maybe some natural occurrence will arrive to cull the herd. It happens in most species, right? Already I see more stories of plague and dreadful sewer problems. The planet cannot support this level of huddled masses. If I am one called, then so be it. Whatever.
The Middle East is emptying out. It has been too intolerant and backwards for too long while the population has continued to grow. Young people face unemployment and ethnic and religious conflict never ends much of it orchestrated by religious and political leaders.
The West simply cannot absorb the results of all this dysfunction and if these refugees/migrants/opportunity seekers bring the same intolerance and divisiveness with them then conflict will have moved from one region of the world to another. Spain has very large youth unemployment. Where do these young Spaniards go?
These refugees/migrants/opportunists are really the symptom of a larger problem and that is the lack of leaders in the ME who care more about their people then their own thirst for power, self indulgence and personal bigotry. The ME might be the most backwards region of the world at this point in history.
The West simply cannot absorb the results of all this dysfunction and if these refugees/migrants/opportunity seekers bring the same intolerance and divisiveness with them then conflict will have moved from one region of the world to another. Spain has very large youth unemployment. Where do these young Spaniards go?
These refugees/migrants/opportunists are really the symptom of a larger problem and that is the lack of leaders in the ME who care more about their people then their own thirst for power, self indulgence and personal bigotry. The ME might be the most backwards region of the world at this point in history.
26
Merkel will go down in history as the second most hated german if she doesnt put a plug in this, and soon, before it all blows up in our face.
47
NO, she will be number one. Europe was able to recover after WWII, this invasion will be forever...
1
The paralysis of the EU in meeting the migrant crisis was on full display during the Greek debt crisis which preceded it by almost three years. The troika's abysmal handling of the negotiations with the Greek government evidenced not a union of nations but a loose shifting confederation of broken down into the wealthier northern nations and the poorer less stable outhern states. Well, Greece was reduced to a mere shell of a nation by Germany and Finland's nearsighted demands of repayment instead of debt forgiveness. A debilated Greece is unable to exert any border control at periphery of the EU.
Perhaps, someone in the upper echelons of the EU might ask the question; what if instead of migrants seeking asylum the influx was a military force? If a foreign power had landed an expeditionary military force through Greece by now the southern part of the EU would have been occupied. The only nations making attempts at maintaining national borders; Hungary, Croatia and Serbia are being pilloried in the media.
Misguided humanatarianism is allowing thousands of unidentified foreigners uncontrolled access to the interior of the EU. It will be months before identification and security checks can be performed. Given only a fraction of the migrants current in the EU will qualify for asylum, what happens when thousands of predominately Muslim males are told they must leave? If the incidents in Serbia and Croatia are indictative, it will be a momumental disaster.
Perhaps, someone in the upper echelons of the EU might ask the question; what if instead of migrants seeking asylum the influx was a military force? If a foreign power had landed an expeditionary military force through Greece by now the southern part of the EU would have been occupied. The only nations making attempts at maintaining national borders; Hungary, Croatia and Serbia are being pilloried in the media.
Misguided humanatarianism is allowing thousands of unidentified foreigners uncontrolled access to the interior of the EU. It will be months before identification and security checks can be performed. Given only a fraction of the migrants current in the EU will qualify for asylum, what happens when thousands of predominately Muslim males are told they must leave? If the incidents in Serbia and Croatia are indictative, it will be a momumental disaster.
26
The European Union is digging it's own grave in the way it lets this human tide flow into its borders. While deliberating for some 10 days a plan which is completely detached from reality, they have another 50,000 migrants marching to the paradise of Germany and Sweden.
While doing so they act in complete disregard to their citizens' opinions and feelings, alienating a large portion of the population which is already fed up with Brussels diktats.
The short shortsightedness is staggering. They play directly into the hands of right and ultra right wing parties all over Europe which loathe the union because of what they perceive as disregard for national and cultural values which, they feel, define their identity.
And there is no way back. Once people plant themselves in a country they never leave but keep living in the shadows of their host countries. This can be seen everywhere. In the US and in European countries like France, Sweden and others.
It is mind boggling to witness the ineptitude in which the EU deals with this crisis. Instead of blocking the access to some miserable, tiny, Greek islands and the shores of Libya they play the most dangerous game they played in their history.
While doing so they act in complete disregard to their citizens' opinions and feelings, alienating a large portion of the population which is already fed up with Brussels diktats.
The short shortsightedness is staggering. They play directly into the hands of right and ultra right wing parties all over Europe which loathe the union because of what they perceive as disregard for national and cultural values which, they feel, define their identity.
And there is no way back. Once people plant themselves in a country they never leave but keep living in the shadows of their host countries. This can be seen everywhere. In the US and in European countries like France, Sweden and others.
It is mind boggling to witness the ineptitude in which the EU deals with this crisis. Instead of blocking the access to some miserable, tiny, Greek islands and the shores of Libya they play the most dangerous game they played in their history.
26
Glad to see that the NYT has finally admitted that these people are "fleeing poverty," which makes them economic migrants, not refugees. As been pointed out so many times, people are refugees only as long as they stay at their first safe destination.
34
This could easily herald the demise of the EU (if not liberal governance), whose politicians are notably out of touch with the desires of their citizens. The mood on the ground is far from welcoming, the resentment against these millions of illegal immigrants rising exponentially.
This does not bode well for referenda that will decide whether Britain and others remain in the EU. My friends and family in Europe are, rightly, scared. With no border controls, we have no way of knowing how many ISIS members are forcing their way into our countries. And they are not doing it politely, but with violence and anger. In a post-9/11 world, there is no "humanitarian" solution to this problem - not until we can separate economic refugees from fanatical killers, which will entail detention camps and probably years of security checks.
The backlash against Merkel and her sympathizers is not going to be pretty.
This does not bode well for referenda that will decide whether Britain and others remain in the EU. My friends and family in Europe are, rightly, scared. With no border controls, we have no way of knowing how many ISIS members are forcing their way into our countries. And they are not doing it politely, but with violence and anger. In a post-9/11 world, there is no "humanitarian" solution to this problem - not until we can separate economic refugees from fanatical killers, which will entail detention camps and probably years of security checks.
The backlash against Merkel and her sympathizers is not going to be pretty.
84
It would be a nice change if reporting on this issue, in the US, was based less on "touchy feely" sound bites and more on the reality of how the average citizens in European countries felt about this. 150 years ago the US was wrapping up its own civil war. I fear Europe has something similar in their future. It will be called a Clash of Civilizations.
1
More pictures of mostly young men. Is the NY Times ever going to do a story about what is happening to all of the women left behind?
38
The women left behind will soon be joining their husbands, along with their half dozen kids in tow. The FEAR is that this is just the first wave. The second wave will be multitudes of their children, siblings, elderly parents. And they will all continue to reproduce at a rapid rate, living on the teat of their host country.
What causes the rise of right-wing groups in Europe? Answer: the idiocy of the left.
30
If Britain had stopped all immigration in 2011, its population would still rise by 4 million within 10 years. If Germany did the same, its population would fall by 15 million. Britains population is set to pass Germanys within 10 years. Brtiain had a net migration of 330,000 this year, a record high, has 8 million foreign born residents, also a record high, economic migrants from Eastern Europe stacked up to the roof, 2 million unemployed, housing prices that are off the chart, and a crumbling NHS. Immigration is now the overwhelming first concern of the British electorate.
Why, then, are Angela Merkel and Brussels, and the New York TIMES, and the Guardian, and the BBC all insisting that Britain=Germany and should be eager to take in another 100,000 or so migrants from a foreign culture that has, like the Turks in Germany and the North Africans in France and Sweden, already shown difficulty integrating into European culture. e.g., clinging to its cultural views of women?
Frankly, it is impossible to escape the sense that this crisis was allowed to happen to serve other interests: solidifying EU control over its members by extending control of immigration from within the EU to outside the EU, demonstrating German status as first among equals in Europe, and giving global corporate interests a hand by helping to create a low-wage workforce with only loose cultural ties to the host country and who will not even be able to vote for years.
This crisis was engineered.
Why, then, are Angela Merkel and Brussels, and the New York TIMES, and the Guardian, and the BBC all insisting that Britain=Germany and should be eager to take in another 100,000 or so migrants from a foreign culture that has, like the Turks in Germany and the North Africans in France and Sweden, already shown difficulty integrating into European culture. e.g., clinging to its cultural views of women?
Frankly, it is impossible to escape the sense that this crisis was allowed to happen to serve other interests: solidifying EU control over its members by extending control of immigration from within the EU to outside the EU, demonstrating German status as first among equals in Europe, and giving global corporate interests a hand by helping to create a low-wage workforce with only loose cultural ties to the host country and who will not even be able to vote for years.
This crisis was engineered.
33
The Germans do have an incredibly low birth rate -- fully 40% of all German women will never give birth.
I don't know why this is. It would be very interesting to do a sociological study to find out why Germans are so distanced from family and childbearing -- they have the best imaginable maternity benefits, parental leaves, child subsidies, free education and so forth. But it has not helped increase the birth rate.
However: you cannot solve that problem by importing 10 million Islamic migrants.
I don't know why this is. It would be very interesting to do a sociological study to find out why Germans are so distanced from family and childbearing -- they have the best imaginable maternity benefits, parental leaves, child subsidies, free education and so forth. But it has not helped increase the birth rate.
However: you cannot solve that problem by importing 10 million Islamic migrants.
1
I don't understand - why doesn't the EU take on Britain's policy of ONLY processing refugee applications from existing refugee camps? That way you can screen people, control the flow, ensure proper representation of women and children, and don't incentivize all these insane boat rides. Everyone on a boat should be escorted back by a EU coast guard, and encouraged to apply from a camp.
The only voice of reason in this has been Britain. Germany has lost all sense, it looks to me, and imposing nonsense to everyone else. I've always been pro-Europe, but not like this, not if Europe is a helpless, incompetent, and ultimately stupid entity.
The only voice of reason in this has been Britain. Germany has lost all sense, it looks to me, and imposing nonsense to everyone else. I've always been pro-Europe, but not like this, not if Europe is a helpless, incompetent, and ultimately stupid entity.
116
I see your point. Please remember though, England is the EU nation that isn't. Support for economic fluidity and reasonable concern for continental affairs are expected; its part of British tradition. Uncalculated political acquiescence to the continent though? I think you've forgotten the geographical barrier known as the Chanel. It's amazing how a small body of water can impact the norms and attitudes of a nation.
1
Thank you. Chaos is only benefiting the organized crime/people smugglers, at great financial and other (lives lost) cost. No one has a right to march in wherever they desire to be and demand their lives are paid for by others.
2
Has it ever occurred to you that Britain is an island, whereas continental Europe is not? Have a look at the American-Mexican border and you will see how difficult it is to control an influx of people - at least if we are talking about democracies that are not ready to machine-gun thousands of people to keep them out.
1
I see this terrible situation differently. I see nations grappling with a unique tragedy, that no country or group of countries have systems to address well --- but, on different levels, they are all trying to develop and implement systems that would make the lives of migrants better. I applaud the effort, as uneven as that effort might be.
6
What effort?
Greece threw the door wide open, Germany welcomed one and all.
And no one told the countries between Germany and Greece, that they were the ones to foot the bill.
This is not an effort. this is pure confusion.
Greece threw the door wide open, Germany welcomed one and all.
And no one told the countries between Germany and Greece, that they were the ones to foot the bill.
This is not an effort. this is pure confusion.
1
I you had to live with the consequences you might feel differently.
I see your comments differently still. You said, "no country or group of countries have systems to address well"? Well, guess what, these people do have their own countries. They were not gypsies. They were from Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Eritrea, other Balkan states, and more.
Your question really should have been: If a country decides to mistreat its own citizens so badly as to force all of them out, is there a responsibility for others to take in all their citizens, and can it realistically do so? Many a country do that on a regular basis, ISIS is one, Syria's own government is another, even the refugee crisis of the Rohingyas from Myanmar. Should the rest of the world just stand by quietly to take in whatever migrants outflow, or should UN (as a collective group that represents the rest of the world) have intervene which would provide a more legitimate cover for the intervention, rather than claims of pseudo colonialism from the bygone era? Should those arab neighbors like Saudi Arabia have taken in more, though at this point there's no ramifications to these indifferent countries for doing nothing except throwing in a few dollars in the pot and let others deal with the mess?
Your question really should have been: If a country decides to mistreat its own citizens so badly as to force all of them out, is there a responsibility for others to take in all their citizens, and can it realistically do so? Many a country do that on a regular basis, ISIS is one, Syria's own government is another, even the refugee crisis of the Rohingyas from Myanmar. Should the rest of the world just stand by quietly to take in whatever migrants outflow, or should UN (as a collective group that represents the rest of the world) have intervene which would provide a more legitimate cover for the intervention, rather than claims of pseudo colonialism from the bygone era? Should those arab neighbors like Saudi Arabia have taken in more, though at this point there's no ramifications to these indifferent countries for doing nothing except throwing in a few dollars in the pot and let others deal with the mess?
2
Wow, they will handle 120.000 illegal migrants.
Wake me up in two weeks, when the next crisis meeting will have to take place for the next 120,000.
120,000 illegal migrants is what comes to Euro every two weeks at the current rate.
Way too insignificant to discuss it using such dramatic gestures as a summit..
Wake me up in two weeks, when the next crisis meeting will have to take place for the next 120,000.
120,000 illegal migrants is what comes to Euro every two weeks at the current rate.
Way too insignificant to discuss it using such dramatic gestures as a summit..
20
As others have pointed out, the current massively unmanageable number of migrants is only the tip of the iceberg. Even ignoring the tens of millions in sub-Saharan Africa and southeast Asia waiting their chance, each male migrant will be eligible to "reunify" his family in Europe. Our Honduran nanny gained her green card in the 1986 amnesty (we hired her in 1993.) She was able to then bring her 8 children to the US, legally. A wonderful family, no harm done, but granting asylum or amnesty does not solve the migration overload, it only increases it.
37
The whole thing has become a land rush of desire to move to the destination that most meets your personal fancy.
37
Fascinating how Ms. Merkel managed to physically destroy Greece, all of old Yugoslavia, and Austria and emotionally destroy the rest of Europe and all that by making false promises to Middle Easterns. She has made a name for herself, no doubt about it.
51
For years, I have been reading about young people in Europe, mostly in the southern countries, who have little or no hope of finding employment. Supposedly, Merkel has welcomed these migrants partly because of Germany's low birth rate; there's not enough young workers paying into its expensive pension system. Was any consideration whatsoever given to the young European workers, prior to giving carte blanche entry to 800,000 this year, and 500,000 each year thereafter, for who knows how many years to come? I think not. Merkel has lot her senses.
107
As a german you should know better, just look at the migration statistics of the EU.
300.000 greeks in germany still outnumber syrians, 700.000 polands, not to talk about the 1.500.000 turkish people, who still have a turkish passport, or the 2.500.000 turkish citizen, who have waved their turkish citizenship in favor of the german.
Germany is an immigration country, and the biggest immigration is within the Schengen area, or europe.
300.000 greeks in germany still outnumber syrians, 700.000 polands, not to talk about the 1.500.000 turkish people, who still have a turkish passport, or the 2.500.000 turkish citizen, who have waved their turkish citizenship in favor of the german.
Germany is an immigration country, and the biggest immigration is within the Schengen area, or europe.
At 300,000 Greeks, if that number is accurate, the inflow from the Middle East will quickly dwarf that number. The solution for Germany is hardly to take in such a vast number of migrants and to force other EU nations to take in their "fair share". It is not possible to open up the floodgates, as Merkel has done, and then shut them again. Let in 800,000 and 2M will come next year, followed by 5M the year after that. All of the Middle East and North Africa could be emptied of people. Realistically, nobody - absolutely nobody - will choose to return to their home country after experiencing Germany. Think of the security threat. The security services cannot even monitor the suspects that they have now. If even 1/10th of 1% are sympathetic to ISIS, that opens up the door to catastrophe. It was only a few weeks ago that disaster was averted on a Paris bound train by three quick thinking Yanks and a Brit.
4
First, the famous 800,000 was a prognosis about the number of refugees that could be expected in 2015, not a promise to take in such a number. Why do people always misrepresent that? It is absurd.
Second, unemployed persons from the EU are free to work in Germany anyway, and actually, hundreds of thousands have come and found work. Still others prefer to stay in their country, even if unemployed.
Second, unemployed persons from the EU are free to work in Germany anyway, and actually, hundreds of thousands have come and found work. Still others prefer to stay in their country, even if unemployed.
1
The migrants crisis is like boarding a plane. The plane is boarding and some passengers in the economy section decides to upgrade themselves to first and business. Flight attendants say no, not all passengers have boarded including first and business class passengers. And even with everyone boarded and seats are still available, the upgrade priority would be given to passengers with frequent-flier membership and pregnant women. A group of young economy passengers decided they are not going to have "their seats" taken by people on the line and bum-rushed the attendants and knock over everyone.
Europe and Germany (with the VW crisis), cannot even take care of their own and their neighbors' unemployed citizens. They have generous social benefits but it was never designed to take care million of foreigners. And if Germany, Sweden, etc. ever decided to reduce social welfare, guess which group will be the first on the street flipping cars, burning tires and stoning police?
Europe and Germany (with the VW crisis), cannot even take care of their own and their neighbors' unemployed citizens. They have generous social benefits but it was never designed to take care million of foreigners. And if Germany, Sweden, etc. ever decided to reduce social welfare, guess which group will be the first on the street flipping cars, burning tires and stoning police?
94
The mass migration will not stop, but rather it will increase enormously.
There is only one solution, which is simply that the EU will only and exclusively accept pre-registered refugees from frontline camps. All others treated as economic refugees and deported on the spot without delay.
When, and only when this policy is enacted, and it becomes known that this is the policy, will the flow slow down or stop.
In my village and the neighboring ones, we now already have groups of young men and women migrants who are seeking jobs that do not exist. There was more or less equilibrium in the job markt before, and adding several thousand migrants in a 10 km radius doesn't exactly make a viable solution.
We're happy to lend a hand, and visit for a spell, but I really truly have no clue where you're going to be working. Sorry folks, I don't care what Angela GmbH says, but that is the reality on the ground.
There is only one solution, which is simply that the EU will only and exclusively accept pre-registered refugees from frontline camps. All others treated as economic refugees and deported on the spot without delay.
When, and only when this policy is enacted, and it becomes known that this is the policy, will the flow slow down or stop.
In my village and the neighboring ones, we now already have groups of young men and women migrants who are seeking jobs that do not exist. There was more or less equilibrium in the job markt before, and adding several thousand migrants in a 10 km radius doesn't exactly make a viable solution.
We're happy to lend a hand, and visit for a spell, but I really truly have no clue where you're going to be working. Sorry folks, I don't care what Angela GmbH says, but that is the reality on the ground.
68
The feckless political leaders of Europe have abdicated to political correctness. This mass migration of illegal aliens will become a tidal wave that overwhelms each nation that is dumb enough to welcome it. There is such a thing as being too nice and too charitable.
51
I think reporters are finally getting wise to what everyone else recognized all along. We're witnessing another wave of mass migration. The author called it a river but perhaps the levee just hasn't broken yet. I expected global warming to be the pretext but I guess Iranian computer technicians aren't willing to wait that long.
Greece is not alone in their response but the answer is still what you'd expect: "I don't care where you go but you can't stay here." I'd say now would be a good time to call out the national guard but the European Union's lack of real-world political cohesion has left them utterly deficient. That's why they don't have a national guard or an actionable respone plan in the first place.
Right now, essentially anyone with decent cash liquidity has a free pass to Europe. The question is how long before the crisis dissolves into a national free-for-all? Is that enough time for the EU to take control of the situation?
Greece is not alone in their response but the answer is still what you'd expect: "I don't care where you go but you can't stay here." I'd say now would be a good time to call out the national guard but the European Union's lack of real-world political cohesion has left them utterly deficient. That's why they don't have a national guard or an actionable respone plan in the first place.
Right now, essentially anyone with decent cash liquidity has a free pass to Europe. The question is how long before the crisis dissolves into a national free-for-all? Is that enough time for the EU to take control of the situation?
40
The EU has a minimal army and no real resources to deal with this - they are believers of peace and socialism, assuming everyone is just a good guy trying to live. Sadly, they are wrong.
According to Toynbee the rise and fall of civilizations depends on responding successfully to challenges under the leadership of elite leaders.
If I use this benchmark for the EU response to the migration crisis it predicts the near fall of this European adventure. Both, successful response and elite leadership are clearly missing.
During none of the three major crises of 2015 (Ukraine, Euro, immigration) has the EU been able to act convincingly or successfully. In summary, 2015 turns out to be the EU's annus horribilis and the worst may yet come.
Among the European leaders the fall of Angela Merkel is the deepest. Her short-sighted "immigrants welcome policy" is rapidly alienating her from European partners and German middle class voters. The resulting damage cannot be repaired short-term, as the immigrants will stay. And the threat of a Brexit is becoming more likely every day. Most probably, this would terminate all dreams and disrupt the Union.
If I use this benchmark for the EU response to the migration crisis it predicts the near fall of this European adventure. Both, successful response and elite leadership are clearly missing.
During none of the three major crises of 2015 (Ukraine, Euro, immigration) has the EU been able to act convincingly or successfully. In summary, 2015 turns out to be the EU's annus horribilis and the worst may yet come.
Among the European leaders the fall of Angela Merkel is the deepest. Her short-sighted "immigrants welcome policy" is rapidly alienating her from European partners and German middle class voters. The resulting damage cannot be repaired short-term, as the immigrants will stay. And the threat of a Brexit is becoming more likely every day. Most probably, this would terminate all dreams and disrupt the Union.
38
First of all, this is not a flight of refugees, these are illegal migrants and an invasion that does not care about rules or laws, borders of countries of the infidels.
They come from safe countries and areas like Turkey, in which some of them have spent the past few years in total safety after which they have decided to go to Europe to demand a share of the European welfare offers.
Ignoring each and every rule and law there is for migration and legal residency.
Also, Greece does receive hundreds of millions of Euro each year from various agencies and commissions of the EU to handle the illegal migration and execute the Schengen and Dublin agreements - and Greece, as always does, not do what it is required to do as per these agreements and laws.
Greece simply takes in everyone who comes and passes them onward to Austria, Germany and other countries.
Mostly without any concern for their well being and legal status.
Greece has given up it's borders and therefore it's sovereignty.
Greece does not care at all.
In part that is the same with Italy.
So how should the EU handle this situation?
By establishing hotspots inside the EU?
Those illegal migrants will not stay in these hotspots, they don't care for laws.
They'll just move on.
So the only place for these hotspots is outside the EU which also makes deportation easier.
Once again, politically correct decisions will prove entirely unworkable.
Time for border fences and tighter border controls.
Execute European law.
They come from safe countries and areas like Turkey, in which some of them have spent the past few years in total safety after which they have decided to go to Europe to demand a share of the European welfare offers.
Ignoring each and every rule and law there is for migration and legal residency.
Also, Greece does receive hundreds of millions of Euro each year from various agencies and commissions of the EU to handle the illegal migration and execute the Schengen and Dublin agreements - and Greece, as always does, not do what it is required to do as per these agreements and laws.
Greece simply takes in everyone who comes and passes them onward to Austria, Germany and other countries.
Mostly without any concern for their well being and legal status.
Greece has given up it's borders and therefore it's sovereignty.
Greece does not care at all.
In part that is the same with Italy.
So how should the EU handle this situation?
By establishing hotspots inside the EU?
Those illegal migrants will not stay in these hotspots, they don't care for laws.
They'll just move on.
So the only place for these hotspots is outside the EU which also makes deportation easier.
Once again, politically correct decisions will prove entirely unworkable.
Time for border fences and tighter border controls.
Execute European law.
33
The fundamental disconnect between the reality on the ground and the proposals and statements of European leaders is due to the fact that neither of the two options for dealing with the crisis are feasible. One option is to accept refugees and asylum seekers fleeing persecution, economic hardship and war and integrate them fairly in the E.U. countries. The other option is to prevent their entry into Europe except for token numbers. The points of entry will continue to speed them on their way out of their nations. Resistance to their arrival at their countries of choice will inevitably build. It is like stopping the flow of water after the dam has collapsed. But these are people, not floods. The only solution, and there seems little discussion of it in any capital or the U.N., is to intervene with force to end the civil war in Syria where barbarism continues and to marshal economic forces to aid areas of economic hardship. Failing this will result in a much greater loss of life and economic chaos throughout Europe will grow.
3
When I read the line: "Saddled with an economic crisis and a dysfunctional state apparatus" - I thought they were going to say Germany.....not Greece. Germany needs to stop leading by example - it is only going to lead to a wide variety of problems.
9
Why no photos of 4,000 homeless sleeping each night on Budapest streets and 6,000 filling up shelters? How can Hungary house and feed migrants when so many of ‘its own’ have no roof over their heads? Pepper sprays and water cannons are favourite motif, the stone-throwing and cudgel-brandishing that provoked them uninteresting.
One-sided, tear-jerking reporting is having negative effect. People are becoming increasingly resentful, asking ‘When are media going to show 'the other side'?’
The other side is the reality of Islamisation: Loss of national identity,
sex-grooming of children by Muslim gangs, faith schools that become hate schools, radical preachers in universities, beheadings, dramatic increase in rape crimes, Sharia law (20,000 Muslims in Britain with multiple wives), bans on nativity plays & wearing Christian cross (burka or turban O.K.).
All the world's democracies are based on Christian principles; Islam and democracy are diametrically opposed terms.
Without consulting the other 28 EU members, Merkel ("There can be no limit to numbers”) said Germany welcomed all Syrian refugees. Gabriel said it could accommodate 500,000/yr for several years. The refugees came, and even 140,000 were too many. She passed the buck and said Europe has moral duty to share Germany's burden. Does that apply to the 1000,000 it expects this year and 500,000/yr thereafter? Is this the “closer Europe” - she giving orders, the rest obeying? One thing she’s achieved for sure - a Brexit.
One-sided, tear-jerking reporting is having negative effect. People are becoming increasingly resentful, asking ‘When are media going to show 'the other side'?’
The other side is the reality of Islamisation: Loss of national identity,
sex-grooming of children by Muslim gangs, faith schools that become hate schools, radical preachers in universities, beheadings, dramatic increase in rape crimes, Sharia law (20,000 Muslims in Britain with multiple wives), bans on nativity plays & wearing Christian cross (burka or turban O.K.).
All the world's democracies are based on Christian principles; Islam and democracy are diametrically opposed terms.
Without consulting the other 28 EU members, Merkel ("There can be no limit to numbers”) said Germany welcomed all Syrian refugees. Gabriel said it could accommodate 500,000/yr for several years. The refugees came, and even 140,000 were too many. She passed the buck and said Europe has moral duty to share Germany's burden. Does that apply to the 1000,000 it expects this year and 500,000/yr thereafter? Is this the “closer Europe” - she giving orders, the rest obeying? One thing she’s achieved for sure - a Brexit.
70
In the midst of panic and a lot of lefty political correctness, nobody is doing THE MATH.
Syria has 22 million people -- alone. That isn't counting the many other countries, that make up most of the refugees (Syrians are MAYBE 30%, tops). If even 1/4 of the Syrians decided to come to Europe, that alone is 5-6 million people -- most of them poor, uneducated, unskilled and don't speak any European language or English.
Now figure out all the OTHER nations who make up 70% of the migrants. We could easily be talking about 20 million people from all of the poor, miserable places in the world. I can't even talk about Africa. Imagine how many would love to come from poor parts of Africa to wealthy Europe!
And it is ALREADY very clear that European nations have no plan, no method of even ensuring migrants are from Syria -- can't tell if they are true war refugees OR economic migrants -- can't fingerprint or identify people (who jump trains and fences, to be incognito to authorities) -- can't get them to go to any particular country (as most insist on Germany) -- even within Germany, cannot direct them to less populated areas, as they want the big prosperous cities -- the authorities have already lost track of many thousands who are now just wandering the countrysides of Europe. There is no way of telling which are ordinary families, and which are terrorists looking for a way to secretly integrate into European society.
Syria has 22 million people -- alone. That isn't counting the many other countries, that make up most of the refugees (Syrians are MAYBE 30%, tops). If even 1/4 of the Syrians decided to come to Europe, that alone is 5-6 million people -- most of them poor, uneducated, unskilled and don't speak any European language or English.
Now figure out all the OTHER nations who make up 70% of the migrants. We could easily be talking about 20 million people from all of the poor, miserable places in the world. I can't even talk about Africa. Imagine how many would love to come from poor parts of Africa to wealthy Europe!
And it is ALREADY very clear that European nations have no plan, no method of even ensuring migrants are from Syria -- can't tell if they are true war refugees OR economic migrants -- can't fingerprint or identify people (who jump trains and fences, to be incognito to authorities) -- can't get them to go to any particular country (as most insist on Germany) -- even within Germany, cannot direct them to less populated areas, as they want the big prosperous cities -- the authorities have already lost track of many thousands who are now just wandering the countrysides of Europe. There is no way of telling which are ordinary families, and which are terrorists looking for a way to secretly integrate into European society.
8
My friend who's a retired teacher and small town newspaper editor from upstate New York, speaks perfect french (a true francophile) and has a descent pension (self-sufficient,) always doing some sort of volunteer work (nice guy all-around), was kicked out of southern France last year, on some really stupid immigration technicality.
Same thing on this side of the pond. I finally gave up trying to hire a Danish social pedagogue, it was just too much of a hassle dealing with immigration.
Not to disparage the millions from different cultures who flock into the USA or Europe, but something is weird here. Is Is it a case of political correctness stressing logic or what?
Same thing on this side of the pond. I finally gave up trying to hire a Danish social pedagogue, it was just too much of a hassle dealing with immigration.
Not to disparage the millions from different cultures who flock into the USA or Europe, but something is weird here. Is Is it a case of political correctness stressing logic or what?
61
It's estimated that only 20% of the migrants are from Syria the ones EU breathtakingly say they have to help. What will they do with the hundreds of thousands of the rest? Mostly young men who are coming for economic reasons? Send them back?
This will go down as one of the most irrational and thoughtless policy in modern European history, and will dissolve the EU as immigration backlash rises with the election of far right parties.
This will go down as one of the most irrational and thoughtless policy in modern European history, and will dissolve the EU as immigration backlash rises with the election of far right parties.
67
And yet, still nothing from the UAE, they have done nothing to accommodate these refugees. They turn a blind eye and expect Europe to take care of all of them. They have more in common than do Europeans first and foremost the language and customs. And still silence from the press on the subject too.
52
L, not sure you understand the situation. UAE want migrants to invade Europe on behalf of their ideology. That's their plan.
1
The European press and politicians are totally out of touch with how much their citizens are against this unchecked mass immigration. Germany and Merkel in particular have taken a unilateral and dictatorial approach to letting in masses of people whose religion and values are diametrically opposed to Western culture and values. I am sure that there will be history documentaries in the future that will point to what is going on now as the genesis of some yet unknown calamity that will befall on Europe in the future.
41
These migrants want what they want when they want it. Their sense of entitlement makes them believe they can break laws, throw rocks and debris at police, refuse to register, complain about food, whine about their lack of welcome, and leave trash everywhere .
And STILL the numbers keep growing.
Will the German army of 61,000+ be able to control the coming violence when migrant benefits are cut by 1/2 as is happening, when their entitlements are dashed?
I doubt it. Will Germany call on the 60,000 members of the American military stationed in Germany to bail them out? You can bet on it.
Germany has an army of 61,000+,
And STILL the numbers keep growing.
Will the German army of 61,000+ be able to control the coming violence when migrant benefits are cut by 1/2 as is happening, when their entitlements are dashed?
I doubt it. Will Germany call on the 60,000 members of the American military stationed in Germany to bail them out? You can bet on it.
Germany has an army of 61,000+,
42
Now that Putin can see the EU in its full dysfunction - he can probably view it as a soft target - putting countries that border Russia into further jeopardy.
15
Ohh yeah, why not, let's call for sanctions against Putin.
And while we are at it, time to make him responsible for the bad weather we have today as well.
And while we are at it, time to make him responsible for the bad weather we have today as well.
2
I am sure Mr. Putin is by his TV set daily, laughing hysterically at the folly of weakling Europe -- and at least in the back of his mind, thinking "fools like this could be overtaken militarily without much effort".
4
Well, what is happening today in Europe it is chaos and the only way to stop this chaos is to stop the war in the Middle East, otherwise the number of refugees will steadily increase and this wave engulf not only Europe but also America.
8
It's time to boycott all German products until the German people rise up and boot Merkel out of office. Her actions threaten Germany, Europe, the US and the rest of the civilized world.
27
Will Alabama boycott the new Airbus factory and jobs???
1
No because Airbus is a French company, headquartered in France.
1
It is critical that the USA/NATO with Sunni Arab allies enter Syria and create a safe haven for Sunnis and Kurds. Russia and Iran are facilitating their slaughter and encouraging mass migration. We have no choice now but to invade Syria.
3
It is simply mind-boggling that Europe has decided to forfeit its sovereignty and abrogate all of its immigration laws in the space of a few short months, all without consulting the citizens of the various nations of the continent. I just cannot wrap my head around the fact that "leaders" in Europe are allowing anyone who can float from Turkey to Greece to become an "immigrant" into Europe without following any of the immigration rules and laws established over decades and centuries. If I were a citizen of a European nation, I would be terrified that anybody on this planet who wishes to get into Europe, doubtlessly including many people who mean to do grave harm to others, can simply come ashore in Greece and then go his merry way to his destination with zero government interdiction or regulation. If it wasn't happening, I would say it is unbelievable.
And yet...liberal media like the New York Times cheer on this absolute madness and do everything but call those countries and citizens that think this highly dangerous and illegal free-for-all needs end immediately "racist"--oh wait, the Times does that, either implicitly or explicitly, on a daily basis (see, e.g., the current article about "backward" Eastern Europe "doing the right thing" and knuckling under to the laughable resettlement mandate from the EU. But of course the Times couldn't help calling the populaces of Eastern Europe racist and backward when it acknowledged that they are overwhelmingly against this plan.
And yet...liberal media like the New York Times cheer on this absolute madness and do everything but call those countries and citizens that think this highly dangerous and illegal free-for-all needs end immediately "racist"--oh wait, the Times does that, either implicitly or explicitly, on a daily basis (see, e.g., the current article about "backward" Eastern Europe "doing the right thing" and knuckling under to the laughable resettlement mandate from the EU. But of course the Times couldn't help calling the populaces of Eastern Europe racist and backward when it acknowledged that they are overwhelmingly against this plan.
73
This will continue until there is naval blockade formed by members in the EU. This is insanity. Merkel has clearly lost her mind.
60
All authentic refugees must be redirected from Europe to the now soon to be well-funded refugee camps in Turkey, Lebanon, etc. All others, economic migrants and phony asylum seekers must be rejected and turned away immediately without registration or any kind of processing.
True refugees must be informed that they can find safety in the existing camps but may not enter or reside inside Europe at all. End of story, end of crisis.
Any real refugees will be grateful for shelter, safety and care at well-run camps in their own regions, while the phonies and would-be freeloaders will go home. Camps in the regions of conflict should be the ONLY assistance offered to refugees -- take it or leave it. The temptation to use refugee status as a pretext to illegally enter and live in Europe at the expense of the European people must completely eliminated as a possibility or option.
At the same time, Europe and the US must cooperate with Russia, Assad and Iran to force peace on Syria, crush ISIS, and then rebuild Syria with some kind of modern Marshall plan.
The US government and the other criminal globalists must stop trying to topple Assad and instead support him in reestablishing peace and stability.
Those who fomented the war and unrest in Syria in their quest for power through regime change in Syria must be arrested and held accountable. John McCain comes to mind, but there are many culpable individuals who should stand trial.
True refugees must be informed that they can find safety in the existing camps but may not enter or reside inside Europe at all. End of story, end of crisis.
Any real refugees will be grateful for shelter, safety and care at well-run camps in their own regions, while the phonies and would-be freeloaders will go home. Camps in the regions of conflict should be the ONLY assistance offered to refugees -- take it or leave it. The temptation to use refugee status as a pretext to illegally enter and live in Europe at the expense of the European people must completely eliminated as a possibility or option.
At the same time, Europe and the US must cooperate with Russia, Assad and Iran to force peace on Syria, crush ISIS, and then rebuild Syria with some kind of modern Marshall plan.
The US government and the other criminal globalists must stop trying to topple Assad and instead support him in reestablishing peace and stability.
Those who fomented the war and unrest in Syria in their quest for power through regime change in Syria must be arrested and held accountable. John McCain comes to mind, but there are many culpable individuals who should stand trial.
20
EU, UN, and all world countries are following the effects: the fleeing people - but nobody does anything to stop the rut causes: Dictators and War Lords, which are financed by the western and eastern countries and their multinationals, which are the criminals' instigators.
If the rut causes will not be stopped, there will be more and more migrants in the near future.
If the rut causes will not be stopped, there will be more and more migrants in the near future.
14
as a result of years of ill conceived and badly executed intervention of numerous countries in the middle east region (and beyond) the world (not just Europe dear Americans) is faced with fleeing masses. Why to Europe may one ask. First of all it is nearby (but so are Saudi Arabia and the gulf states. Secondly Europe has a more or less a humanistic, well functioning open society, which is more than one can say of e.g. Russia and its satellites and of far away countries in Asia. But the US is not helping that much is it? The solution to the problem does not lie in Europe and is not only for Europe to find and execute. The US and Russia are the only countries that can end the suffering in Syria. The US and Russia spend millions of money on ineffective and halfhearted military support of one party or the other in Syria. The US and Russia are the ones that should do something in stead of blaming Europe for not solving the problem. And pick up the bill. I am of course just dreaming.
9
What country, Russia or the U.S., has been practicing regime changes in the Middle East? Removal of these regional strongmen, such as Saddam and Khaddafy, has opened up the door to religious extremism. The removal of Assad will only make things worse. ISIS will take over; not the so-called "Syrian moderates". We spend $500M on training them, and most of them defected to ISIS. The Kurds are presently fighting with the Syrian Army, against ISIS. Syria has been a Russian ally since the 1950s. I would argue that we shouldn't get in the way, as our foreign policy in the Middle East has been one disaster after another.
1
@ernstgh
You don't always have to rely on the US or Russia to shield Europe from external threats you know. You can march down to Amsterdam or Brussels (since you are close) and demand your government to secure your border and protect your culture. If you read most people's comments here other places like Daily Mail, you will see most American supports your desire to keep Europe unique and European culture intact. It is a wonder to lots of us why you guys don't do anything to protect it.
You don't always have to rely on the US or Russia to shield Europe from external threats you know. You can march down to Amsterdam or Brussels (since you are close) and demand your government to secure your border and protect your culture. If you read most people's comments here other places like Daily Mail, you will see most American supports your desire to keep Europe unique and European culture intact. It is a wonder to lots of us why you guys don't do anything to protect it.
2
Europe is (as a whole) larger and wealthier than the US, and much closer physically to Syria, and dealing with a huge migrant invasion. They are entirely capable of forming their own military invasion of Syria.
There is no need for the US to be involved at all. Everytime we set "boots on the ground" in the Middle East, it is a disaster.
We just (barely) got out of Afghanistan and Iraq -- no more. We are done. This is Europe's problem -- you touch it, you break it, you bought it.
There is no need for the US to be involved at all. Everytime we set "boots on the ground" in the Middle East, it is a disaster.
We just (barely) got out of Afghanistan and Iraq -- no more. We are done. This is Europe's problem -- you touch it, you break it, you bought it.
3
As media reports indicate only one of five landing illegally on European is a Syrian refugee. It is therefore not a question of desperateness but of God send opportunity for Asians and Africans to land in the land of opportunity and plenty of entitlements with freedom to change Europe. Media, especially the international news channels have been quite helpful in this exodus.
33
Perhaps 1 in 4 is of Syrian NATIONALITY -- but most of those who are actually Syrian, have been living peacefully in Turkey or Lebanon now for a while. The parents of little Aylan Kurdii were living in Turkey -- had an apartment, jobs, etc. and application for immigration to Canada in the works. They just wanted to "jump the gun" and go to Germany instead (German welfare is even more generous than in Canada!). The father risked the lives of his family -- and lost -- just for this. They were not escaping war or even poverty. They were greedy.
2
If you are European, you recognize that the politburo of the EU consists of a lot of wastrel politicians who didn't get elected in whatever their home country is, but being part of the political old-buddy network they were tuned in to one of the high paying jobs in Brussels. The EU was visibly a mistake as soon as it became politicized in the mid '80s. It is corrupt, inefficient, arrogant and totally ill-adapted to what has finally caught up with them. The system was not set up to handle human crises. Numbers only, please. License plate colors, how to make cheese, sizes, shapes, forms, statistics.
As the ex-colonials have proven in France and the Turks in Germany, there's about to be another, much more important shift away from European culture. The culture of Islam that works well in "developing" nations because of the uniformity of mindset in those countries, is an unfortunate disaster in the mix of Europe and is too small to be felt in America.
Eventually, given the world's lack of leadership, this will turn into a security disaster to add to the cultural one.
The Bush/Cheney/Obama/Clinton/CIA regime change policy that planted all of these Middle Eastern bombs and lit their fuses is noticeably absent in the discussions to repair the damage they caused. Why?
As the ex-colonials have proven in France and the Turks in Germany, there's about to be another, much more important shift away from European culture. The culture of Islam that works well in "developing" nations because of the uniformity of mindset in those countries, is an unfortunate disaster in the mix of Europe and is too small to be felt in America.
Eventually, given the world's lack of leadership, this will turn into a security disaster to add to the cultural one.
The Bush/Cheney/Obama/Clinton/CIA regime change policy that planted all of these Middle Eastern bombs and lit their fuses is noticeably absent in the discussions to repair the damage they caused. Why?
32
Pierre,
Fights among Muslims have taken place for centuries, much earlier than the Declaration of Independence. The US has been caught in those fights but didn't create them. We've tried to make it work in Iraq and in other places but those people only know one thing: killing their opponents. There is no point in repeating something that doesn't work. We don't want to get involved more than we are, and we wish to get less involved. We had our 9 11 and our Boston bombings. We try to learn from it. I suggest France elects people who can learn from the RECENT past i.e. January 7th (Charlie) and Thalys, and show a bit of a backbone.
Fights among Muslims have taken place for centuries, much earlier than the Declaration of Independence. The US has been caught in those fights but didn't create them. We've tried to make it work in Iraq and in other places but those people only know one thing: killing their opponents. There is no point in repeating something that doesn't work. We don't want to get involved more than we are, and we wish to get less involved. We had our 9 11 and our Boston bombings. We try to learn from it. I suggest France elects people who can learn from the RECENT past i.e. January 7th (Charlie) and Thalys, and show a bit of a backbone.
1
Part of the time bomb is also of the Muslims/Arabs making - it is called "big families". People say these migrants will bring in 3 or 4 family members. Actually, even without counting parents, many of these people have 8 or 10 children, or more. So when Merkel says 800,000 can come, start your calculator.
Europeans are supposed to give free support/education/food/housing to people who can't bring themselves to practice family planning in any reasonable manner? And their children, upon reaching adulthood, the numbers of births will be staggering. Think of how well these communities have worked in France?
And yes, the USA is complicit, but so was the drought in Syria and the birthrate.
Europeans are supposed to give free support/education/food/housing to people who can't bring themselves to practice family planning in any reasonable manner? And their children, upon reaching adulthood, the numbers of births will be staggering. Think of how well these communities have worked in France?
And yes, the USA is complicit, but so was the drought in Syria and the birthrate.
1
The frightening specter of this uncontrollable movement of humanity is the following:
With the Internet and social media now accessible to over 90% of the world's population, what is to prevent a bull-rush of the underclass to areas of greater prosperity?
The ultimate result will be a regression to the mean of human well-being, and the proliferation of gated communities within states, and gated states.
With the Internet and social media now accessible to over 90% of the world's population, what is to prevent a bull-rush of the underclass to areas of greater prosperity?
The ultimate result will be a regression to the mean of human well-being, and the proliferation of gated communities within states, and gated states.
44
You can see the future in places like Mumbai. Gated apartment complex with its own security force, water treatment facility, backup power generators and some with private school and convenience store. Outside the gates the government cannot provide reliable basic services so anyone with a white collar/professional job moves to a gated complex to escape the corrupt cops and beggars.
2
Who knew that Germany was so rich that they are able to offer so many migrants from different cultures a future? I find it bitterly ironic that the Greek people, part of the EU, are suffering tremendously, yet they probably have to jump through more hurdles than people from Iran, Iraq, and Syria to get a job in Germany. If I were Greek, I'd get in among these "refugees" and ride to a new life in Germany since it is wanting for so much new labor.
55
When will this free flow of people end? What is the future of Europe? Can we really depend on the EU leaders? How irresponsible was this for Angela Merkel to invite refugees with open arms? If Germany needs people to run her money machines, there are Greeks, Romanians, Polish, and Slovaks, for God sake!
It is just frightening to even imagine that there will be Sharia enclaves in our backyards! It´s a joke to hear about integration. Integration of these Burqa clad women belonging to Islam? I have seen a Somali woman given birth to half a dozen children while she is just past her teen age! This savage practice is a curse to say the least. Unfortunately, we are going to watch these savagery much more frequently, thanks to the bogus EU leadership. I have human sympathy for the suffering humanity but it is difficult to trade a balance between humanism and savagery. This "rational" balance is losing grounds as fast as the flow of migrants.
It is just frightening to even imagine that there will be Sharia enclaves in our backyards! It´s a joke to hear about integration. Integration of these Burqa clad women belonging to Islam? I have seen a Somali woman given birth to half a dozen children while she is just past her teen age! This savage practice is a curse to say the least. Unfortunately, we are going to watch these savagery much more frequently, thanks to the bogus EU leadership. I have human sympathy for the suffering humanity but it is difficult to trade a balance between humanism and savagery. This "rational" balance is losing grounds as fast as the flow of migrants.
66
Yes. And Europe as we knew it is gone. Muslin birth rates are high; it will not be long before the freedoms so hard-won in the West will be challenged by the "rights" of Sharia law.
7
Look at today's headlines: Hundreds killed in Saudi hajj stampede; Syrian migrants storm Europe; Yemen mosque blast kills dozens. The real story is the abysmal dysfunction in the Muslim world.
101
A simple math indicates how unrealistic and naive European leaders are. 350,000 migrants have so far passed through Greece alone while Europe will eventually "find" accommodation for 120,000. in all EU members.
Mrs. Merkel's "invitation" and open door for 800,000 will flood Europe with migrants looking for nonexistent jobs. Young migrants ask for education, elderly for pensions, children for schools and all combined for healthcare, a place to stay. Where is the money required for all this will come from?
Add to all above naive (or better lack of thinking), the cultural differences, the expected demands of respecting the migrants religions, building more mosques, changing schools menu to halal, observing religious holidays and Europe is heading towards a conflict between growing right wing parties and the growing flow of migrants.
Mrs. Merkel's "invitation" and open door for 800,000 will flood Europe with migrants looking for nonexistent jobs. Young migrants ask for education, elderly for pensions, children for schools and all combined for healthcare, a place to stay. Where is the money required for all this will come from?
Add to all above naive (or better lack of thinking), the cultural differences, the expected demands of respecting the migrants religions, building more mosques, changing schools menu to halal, observing religious holidays and Europe is heading towards a conflict between growing right wing parties and the growing flow of migrants.
141
And again the famous 800,000. That number was not a promise to take in 800,000 refugees, but a mere prognosis. It is absurd how often I have seen this misrepresented.
1
@Peter
The most apt reply so far to an excellent article illustrating the incompetence of the EU. Some, in their haste to exhort others to open their doors to all who come, fail to understand the financial pressures experienced by many EU countries in the past few years, having to deal not only with their own domestic problems/unemployment/lack of sufficient housing/overcrowded schools and transport systems etc. but have simultaneously been absorbing hundreds of thousands of immigrants for years and are now expected to prioritize the needs of an endless stream of new migrants. Official statistics state only some 39% are from Syria, though, as one interviewed migrant said "We are all Syrians now" - there's simply no way of checking. 72% are young males under 30, virtually all Muslim but many come from Pakistan, Eritrea, Iran, Afghanistan, Nigeria, and a large number from Albania and Rumania.
Since many European countries already have serious problems with young Muslim men, who also contribute to the majority of offenders in prison, is it any wonder that they are reluctant to open their doors to all comers?
Someone above suggested this crisis showed "the fundamental weakness" of the EU - no, the worst aspect of the EU is its complete lack of democracy and intolerance of dissent, removing from sovereign nations the power to make their own rules and govern themselves directly.
The most apt reply so far to an excellent article illustrating the incompetence of the EU. Some, in their haste to exhort others to open their doors to all who come, fail to understand the financial pressures experienced by many EU countries in the past few years, having to deal not only with their own domestic problems/unemployment/lack of sufficient housing/overcrowded schools and transport systems etc. but have simultaneously been absorbing hundreds of thousands of immigrants for years and are now expected to prioritize the needs of an endless stream of new migrants. Official statistics state only some 39% are from Syria, though, as one interviewed migrant said "We are all Syrians now" - there's simply no way of checking. 72% are young males under 30, virtually all Muslim but many come from Pakistan, Eritrea, Iran, Afghanistan, Nigeria, and a large number from Albania and Rumania.
Since many European countries already have serious problems with young Muslim men, who also contribute to the majority of offenders in prison, is it any wonder that they are reluctant to open their doors to all comers?
Someone above suggested this crisis showed "the fundamental weakness" of the EU - no, the worst aspect of the EU is its complete lack of democracy and intolerance of dissent, removing from sovereign nations the power to make their own rules and govern themselves directly.
Europe will not solve this crisis until it acknowledges that this is not business as usual but a crisis that requires crisis management. The existing asylum laws were developed to address a small number of people seeking asylum arriving at diverse ports of call. These are not fit for purpose and trying to enforce them is not really possible. A temporary but comprehensive approach to managing the crisis is needed. We have known for well over a year, if not longer, that the number of people coming into Italy and Greece were unmanageable but still European leaders kicked the can down the road.
You could argue that Merkel was the tipping point that accelerated the migration but we have known it was coming. Blame is irrelevant because it would have happened anyway. What is needed now is a solution.
There is no way to stop the flow until Syria is returned to peace. Diplomatic and military solutions need to be explored with urgency. In the meantime, conditions in the refugee camps in the region need to be improved especially with winter approaching or more people will die on the journey to Europe. Finally, we need to stop treating these people as if they were immigrants but rather as war refugees. This has gone on for 4 or 5 years. People waited in the ME until they could no longer put their lives on hold. We need to design a solution that allows them to work and get on with their lives until peace is secured and they can return home.
You could argue that Merkel was the tipping point that accelerated the migration but we have known it was coming. Blame is irrelevant because it would have happened anyway. What is needed now is a solution.
There is no way to stop the flow until Syria is returned to peace. Diplomatic and military solutions need to be explored with urgency. In the meantime, conditions in the refugee camps in the region need to be improved especially with winter approaching or more people will die on the journey to Europe. Finally, we need to stop treating these people as if they were immigrants but rather as war refugees. This has gone on for 4 or 5 years. People waited in the ME until they could no longer put their lives on hold. We need to design a solution that allows them to work and get on with their lives until peace is secured and they can return home.
37
You are unrealistic in the extreme. Hundreds of thousands of people, decided in ONE MONTH that they could not put their "lives on hold" and left -- even though the war, the displacement and the refugee camps have been going on now for YEARS -- at least 4-5 years. And they all got fed in ONE MONTH at the same time.
Sorry, that defies all credulity. You (and Europe) are being played as a fool. Don't you understand that most are not refugees? most are not from Syria? most of the actual Syrians are coming from TURKEY (a safe place)? most are young adult men, and not the women & kids shown prominently on TV?
Sorry, that defies all credulity. You (and Europe) are being played as a fool. Don't you understand that most are not refugees? most are not from Syria? most of the actual Syrians are coming from TURKEY (a safe place)? most are young adult men, and not the women & kids shown prominently on TV?
4
Please vist
http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Unemployment...
There are 23 million current men and women unemployed in the EU-28 block. (this is current to June 2015)
Youth employment for 15-24 year olds is 50% in some countries and the average in the EU-28 block was 21.9%.
Just how are EU countries going to "design a solution" to get these migrants working ? Germany's unemployment rate is only 5% but how resentful will the citizens of the EU feel when Germany offers employment to migrants rather than to EU citizens ?
http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Unemployment...
There are 23 million current men and women unemployed in the EU-28 block. (this is current to June 2015)
Youth employment for 15-24 year olds is 50% in some countries and the average in the EU-28 block was 21.9%.
Just how are EU countries going to "design a solution" to get these migrants working ? Germany's unemployment rate is only 5% but how resentful will the citizens of the EU feel when Germany offers employment to migrants rather than to EU citizens ?
And how long will that be ? There is still no peace in Afghanistan,Irak, Somalia,or Eritrea and so forth despite the fact that Ex president Bush anounced mission completed in some of those countries. Of those refugees we have given asylum in Sweden from different countries just a tiny fraction returned to their homeland when conditions were improved. So that´s just false hopes. I realy don´t think that if you comes from in many cases very poor circumstances and comes to a country like sweden where you get accommodation and getting paid for doing nothing at all makes you want to go back to your earlier life. Even if the numbers you get paid are small, in most cases it´s better than you had before. And you can ad free health care and free dental care for refugees, something an ordinary resident don´t enjoy. So as the word gets around and in ourtime news travels fast ,refugee or not the number of people who are seeking for an imiganary paradise will continue.
1
The refugee crisis has exposed the fundamental weakness of the European Union. The first test was the debt crisis in the European periphery, which was handled in a draconian fashion by Germany and the ECB. Now this refugee crisis is being handled even more ineptly.
Germany is making executive decisions to throw open its borders, with no regard for the impact on its neighbors. Nobody can agree on how to respond to the waves of migrants coming into Europe. Nobody seems able to release funds to bolster border security in Greece and Italy. This is total chaos.
It is sad to see the dream of European unity crumbling so quickly under two important tests of its strength. Is there any real future for the EU if this is how it responds to a crisis?
Germany is making executive decisions to throw open its borders, with no regard for the impact on its neighbors. Nobody can agree on how to respond to the waves of migrants coming into Europe. Nobody seems able to release funds to bolster border security in Greece and Italy. This is total chaos.
It is sad to see the dream of European unity crumbling so quickly under two important tests of its strength. Is there any real future for the EU if this is how it responds to a crisis?
89
This refugee problem is the result of the many failed diplomatic solutions to the middle east and Africa and the over use of military solution to sort out humane problems. Further the combinations of these two modes where the military industrial complexes are urging more of the military solutions, suggested here in the comment to be used in Syria will result in added out migration of people from the region.
@ MB
So easy to criticize the EU's handling of this crisis - crisis, incidentally, not of Europe's making.
Perhaps you can explain how the US and Canada would respond to this tsunami of a migration, assuming the refugees had the capability of crossing the Atlantic, and were pouring en masse by the hundreds of thousands into lower Manhattan and other East Coast ports of entry, overwhelming police defenses by sheer number. Would the US be able to handle this unending human flow in an orderly fashion and allocate a 'fair' number of refugees to every state? More to the point, would they be willing to?
So easy to criticize the EU's handling of this crisis - crisis, incidentally, not of Europe's making.
Perhaps you can explain how the US and Canada would respond to this tsunami of a migration, assuming the refugees had the capability of crossing the Atlantic, and were pouring en masse by the hundreds of thousands into lower Manhattan and other East Coast ports of entry, overwhelming police defenses by sheer number. Would the US be able to handle this unending human flow in an orderly fashion and allocate a 'fair' number of refugees to every state? More to the point, would they be willing to?
1
The headline states, "As Europe Wrangles Over Migrant Relocation, Reality Moves Faster." The more fundamental reality issue is not wrangling about relocation of those already in Europe but that future migrants are likely to make "relocation" an ongoing issue, no matter what Europe decides about the current group, inasmuch as Europe appears to have no plan to deter future migrants.
37
The United States of Europe was not founded with a strong central government. Contrast the brilliance of America's Founding Fathers. I take it Europe will no longer be snooty to Americans.
1
The plan won't work because the migrants want to be in the richest countries...that's it.
75
" ... because the migrants want to be in the richest countries ..."
Plus the do not care for nor accept European laws, so why bother.
See who is a real refugee and deport the rest.
Real asylum, yes, any time, but the rest, that is about 92% at current figures, will have to leave.
Plus the do not care for nor accept European laws, so why bother.
See who is a real refugee and deport the rest.
Real asylum, yes, any time, but the rest, that is about 92% at current figures, will have to leave.
3
If these countries were smart they would set up their own processing centers at major landing points and quickly snap up the most skilled and healthy migrants and apply those numbers to their quotas. The sad part is that not only are they not being pro-active or acting in their own self interest they appear to be putting their head in the sand hoping the problem gets kicked down the road to another set of politicians. The shame on Europe isn't just their xenophobia, but also their failure to act in the best interests of their own citizens.
8
If there are professionals or even skilled labor in the group of migrants I suppose your country UAE and Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait, Bahrain would have picked them up a long time ago. Your country wouldn't pay six-figure salary for western professionals if there are so many professionals in Middle East would it?
1
It is quite likely that the underlying cause of the refugee/migrant crisis is the deterioration of Africa and Middle East ecosystem. So it might be that we do not need only to help these people somehow to fix governing there, but also help to restore agriculture on parched fields. Or accept them all here, in massive numbers (tens of millions?).
A massive challenge. But history shows that all countries which had shut themselves in (while enjoying high status), regressed into pathetic weaklings in a century or two.
A massive challenge. But history shows that all countries which had shut themselves in (while enjoying high status), regressed into pathetic weaklings in a century or two.
8
No regression for a century or two? I'm in!
2
Name two such country. I know China is one but that's fallen behind Europe which was undergoing huge reform at the time. I'd like to know the other country that maintained their society while been overtake by its neighbor in a huge civil war.
1
The funny thing is you haven't seen any chaos yet, just wait for the first terrorist incident that occurs as a result of this migration, then all heck will truly break loose in the EU. Right wing governments will take control in individual states and the misguided liberal humanitarians of the EU will wring their hands and claim not to have seen it coming.
98
Already hade a machete attack in Freiberg and a policewoman stabbed in Berlin, although in fairness the attackers were admitted prior as "refugees"
2
Actually, you have...in Calais and elsewhere. But not of the marquee variety like Charlie Hebdo that grabs endless headlines. Also, given the advocacy of so much media, there is incentive to keep it cool in reporting these events.
1
The time is long overdue for the Schengen agreements to be suspended, at least for the foreseeable future. Every nation should have the right to control its own borders, particularly during this crisis. The convenience for European residents is not worth the resulting chaos in dealing with these hundreds of thousands of migrants. It's mind-boggling how ineffective EU politicians are in coming to grips with this issue.
63
Hungary follows the Schengen rules and is condemned. Greece flouts them by not enforcing its own borders, and is enabled and rewarded for doing so by the progressive termigants in Brussels and elsewhere.
43
I have been to Europe many times over the years. I've spent times in lovely villages and researched my German roots. My father, my uncles, my aunts, all fought in WWII, under the Canadian/British flag. I have relatives there that I can trace to the ninth century. My family has fought and lost their sons, so that Europe would be able to continue its heritage. I see people throwing rocks, demanding admittance. I see the rise of the right, that will promote hate. I see a Europe unable to commit to a single, unified response to this crisis. I see a Europe crippled. I am saddened, but gladdened, that I saw the other Europe, before it was destroyed. I hear from my European friend that they are overwhelmed, scared. I have cancelled my vacation to Europe, just as I cancelled my trip to Egypt. I'm not wealthy and I'd rather spend the money I set aside for my vacation in Asia, or South America. Angela Merkel has a steady economy, we'll see how long that lasts, when the hordes pile in.
94
Immediately after college and for the next twelve years or so I toured Europe about 5 or 6 times. Those were the days, my friends! I went to London a few additional times in the 90s. Hard to find a Brit on the streets.
1
Sad to say, I, too, am glad I saw the Europe before. Though my before started in 1970, only 25 years after WWII! Returned to the scenes of my earlier crimes (!) in Italy 35 years later. It already wasn't the same place with so many Eastern Europeans having flooded in, the charm of the place was gone with rip offs at ATMs and fear of pickpockets and being scammed by waiters who conveniently wouldn't take a credit card, only cash. How sad and how tragic it was even then, 10 years ago now. :-((
As many of us feared, there is no existing infrastructure to validate migrants' identities. Millions will pour into Europe and we have no idea who any of them are or what they will do once they get there. I can't believe Merkel is so shortsighted--Germany needs to get her and everyone else with their heads stuck in the clouds out of office, and ASAP.
70
As the Hungarian Prime Minister has said, the Germans are becoming moral imperialists. Indeed, i think its more analogous to an elderly couple giving their money to a conman, and then trying to claim the moral high ground when you don't do the same.
85
Greece did not take part in the invasion of Iraq, or Afghanistan. Not a single soldier, not a single fighter, not a single cannon or tank. And we were scorched for this decision back then.
Those countries that proudly sent their armies to destabilize the region, now want Greece to pick up the pieces of their reckless actions. Aren't they the ones that preach personal and collective responsibility? We pay the price for our fiscal irresponsibility, as we should. And so should they, for destabilizing the region.
UK had 3700 troops in Southern Iraq. Poland 2500. The Czech Republic 430 and four helicopters. The Netherlands 1345 troops plus helicopters. Slovakia 110. Hungary 300. The list goes on. So they should stop crying and pick up the bill. You break it, you pay for it.
As for preventing people from landing on the Greek islands. When they barely make it to our shores, some even drown, what makes people think that they could make it back to the Turkish shores? Are they seriously asking us to intentionally send refugees to their death? We will not do that. Ever.
Or should we keep them here, in order to protect the quality of life of other EU citizens? The ones who are actually responsible for the mess. Well, making sacrifices to protect the quality of life of other EU citizens when they make mistakes, is not how EU works. We know first hand.
Those countries that proudly sent their armies to destabilize the region, now want Greece to pick up the pieces of their reckless actions. Aren't they the ones that preach personal and collective responsibility? We pay the price for our fiscal irresponsibility, as we should. And so should they, for destabilizing the region.
UK had 3700 troops in Southern Iraq. Poland 2500. The Czech Republic 430 and four helicopters. The Netherlands 1345 troops plus helicopters. Slovakia 110. Hungary 300. The list goes on. So they should stop crying and pick up the bill. You break it, you pay for it.
As for preventing people from landing on the Greek islands. When they barely make it to our shores, some even drown, what makes people think that they could make it back to the Turkish shores? Are they seriously asking us to intentionally send refugees to their death? We will not do that. Ever.
Or should we keep them here, in order to protect the quality of life of other EU citizens? The ones who are actually responsible for the mess. Well, making sacrifices to protect the quality of life of other EU citizens when they make mistakes, is not how EU works. We know first hand.
35
Well said, Stroum. Somehow, nobody looks at the root of this mess. USA and allies are beyond criticism.
The middle east broke itself, starting 800 years ago. This is not the result of the west, or the US.
However, I cannot blame Greece for letting these migrants through to the rest of Europe. Frankly, they don't want to stay in Greece anyway. Nor any other southern country. They want the freebies, and Greece ran out of freebies 20 years ago.
However, I cannot blame Greece for letting these migrants through to the rest of Europe. Frankly, they don't want to stay in Greece anyway. Nor any other southern country. They want the freebies, and Greece ran out of freebies 20 years ago.
2
The European Union was a nice idea, but it sure looks like a utopian fantasy now.
35
Migrants are coming from countries and cultures that despise whites and Christians. Yet they are migrating to countries that were built by whites and Christians because those countries are have the best governments, economies, societies, and cultures. How are they going to reconcile that?
128
As in France, with riots demanding more 'free' services and 'accommodation' for their religious beliefs.
3
Turkey is the big problem.
Erdogan is using the refugees as a leverage to achieve domestic goals. For instance he wants europe to cut off any military support for the kurds, who are fighting the daesh. It is comprehensible that Erdogan fears, a stable and more combative kurdish area in syria threatens the unity of turkey, but if we cut off the support of the kurds, we do fear, the whole east of syria will fall to the daesh, and will generate several million more refugees.
Also Erdogan want's to control the funds for the refugees, and knowing the infested corruption of the turkish government, this is an pledge that most of the european leaders are not eager to accept.
At the moment refugees are piling up at the turkish greece border in hope to get a safe and affordable passage to europe. In November there are election in turkey. Until than there could accumulate several thousand refugees, if they are all released at once, this would end in an human catastrophe.
Erdogan is using human misery to blackmail europe, he is sabotaging the western efforts to end the war in syria. He has the means to destabilize greece and the EU, and i am quite sure he is about to spread some mischief.
Erdogan is using the refugees as a leverage to achieve domestic goals. For instance he wants europe to cut off any military support for the kurds, who are fighting the daesh. It is comprehensible that Erdogan fears, a stable and more combative kurdish area in syria threatens the unity of turkey, but if we cut off the support of the kurds, we do fear, the whole east of syria will fall to the daesh, and will generate several million more refugees.
Also Erdogan want's to control the funds for the refugees, and knowing the infested corruption of the turkish government, this is an pledge that most of the european leaders are not eager to accept.
At the moment refugees are piling up at the turkish greece border in hope to get a safe and affordable passage to europe. In November there are election in turkey. Until than there could accumulate several thousand refugees, if they are all released at once, this would end in an human catastrophe.
Erdogan is using human misery to blackmail europe, he is sabotaging the western efforts to end the war in syria. He has the means to destabilize greece and the EU, and i am quite sure he is about to spread some mischief.
20
But Turkey DID house over million of refugees already. We have to help them somehow, without engaging in their internal games.
3
Erdogan clearly is no angel. But he has been asking for the establishment of a safe zone for four years and nobody helped Turkey. Turkey has opened its orders to Iraqis and Syrians, among them thousands of Kurds, ever since the West "liberated" Iraq. 2 million Syrian refugees have cost the Turkish government 7 billion dollars so far. You need to come down from your high German horse and chutzpah to blame it on Erdogan and Turkey. Yes, he is a disgraceful politician but this Turkey bashing by Germans is equally disgraceful
1
It is illegal for refugees to work in Turkey and they receive no cash benefits. They can spend whatever money they have, and work for very low compensation if they can find it in the black market.
1
The EUC was supposed to enable Europe to act as a unit for the betterment of all members. Instead, it appears to nothing but a huge and largely incompetent bureaucracy, with meetings and calls to action that end with nothing more than another to-do list.
56
This event shows that history is mostly irrational and humanity is not a rational subject as we fancy. The apparent equilibrium achieved by the end of the Cold War and the triumph of neoliberalism is suddenly broken by the force of historical movements beyond human control. Some pretentiously called it The End of History. However, humans are not in full control as this experiment. It is like the sudden transformation of fluid states under constant and variable temperature changes in one direction.
The world powers have put this area of Asia under experimental conditions beginning with Shock and Awe to Regime Change (as the neoconservative agenda wanted) starting in 2001 and ongoing at the present. In addition, the markets have stagnated after their own unexpected shock and awe in 2008. The economic remedies like austerity have backfired and worsen the situation. The current prescriptions seem also ineffective to deal with the magnitude of the problem. The powers that be have shown themselves incapable of managing the world.
The world powers have put this area of Asia under experimental conditions beginning with Shock and Awe to Regime Change (as the neoconservative agenda wanted) starting in 2001 and ongoing at the present. In addition, the markets have stagnated after their own unexpected shock and awe in 2008. The economic remedies like austerity have backfired and worsen the situation. The current prescriptions seem also ineffective to deal with the magnitude of the problem. The powers that be have shown themselves incapable of managing the world.
16
Equating rationalism with controlled experiments does not help. The neoliberal experiment has failed. Only when humanity recognizes irrationality in its assumed formal logic, we may begin to plan our future in a rational way. It ain't happening at the moment, and I'm referring to those who speak of the Rule of Law as the panacea for world problems.
6
So, this is the result of actions by neoliberalism and neoconservatism using shock and awe to enforce "regime change" after the end of the cold war. . .
No wonder no one will eat the soup of your theory--it has a little bit of everything in the imaginary kitchen as well as a hunk of ground up lead pipe from the German sink's pre war plumbing. . .
With so many different flavors and political spices it is inedible as well as incomprehensible.
No wonder no one will eat the soup of your theory--it has a little bit of everything in the imaginary kitchen as well as a hunk of ground up lead pipe from the German sink's pre war plumbing. . .
With so many different flavors and political spices it is inedible as well as incomprehensible.
1
In my perception germany is cleaning up the incompetence of other countries.
It was our intention to relief the border-states by partially revoking the Dublin-III agreement, we would have been damned if we didn't. And it is not our fault that we actually can provide some orderly treatment to the refugees, and have some intention to share our prosperity.
What does the rest of europe expects us to do, put up the KZ's and put them behind razor-barbed wire ? Sorry, but we are over this episode, and we won't repeat it.
Half of the people coming now deserve asylum, and we should make their need our irrevocable priority, everything else is negotiable. Their is a technical limit, but i didn't expect that europe reaches it so soon and try to find some moral excuse for this shortcoming.
It was our intention to relief the border-states by partially revoking the Dublin-III agreement, we would have been damned if we didn't. And it is not our fault that we actually can provide some orderly treatment to the refugees, and have some intention to share our prosperity.
What does the rest of europe expects us to do, put up the KZ's and put them behind razor-barbed wire ? Sorry, but we are over this episode, and we won't repeat it.
Half of the people coming now deserve asylum, and we should make their need our irrevocable priority, everything else is negotiable. Their is a technical limit, but i didn't expect that europe reaches it so soon and try to find some moral excuse for this shortcoming.
7
Germany got this ball rolling by essentially rolling out the welcome mat to any and all comers, so it's Germany that should take these migrants, and the millions more to follow.
51
But if true-how will Germany convince the undeserving half that they must leave, return to the ME and do the best they can. . . ?
Open ended invitaions remind me of Mark Twain's story of the kindly doctor cared for, served and fed a sick dog. In a few weeks ,he was doing nothing but taking care of an infinitude of sick dogs, all of which had heard from the original dog about the kindly doctor.
Open ended invitaions remind me of Mark Twain's story of the kindly doctor cared for, served and fed a sick dog. In a few weeks ,he was doing nothing but taking care of an infinitude of sick dogs, all of which had heard from the original dog about the kindly doctor.
6
"Half of the people coming now deserve asylum, and we should make their need our irrevocable priority, everything else is negotiable. Their is a technical limit, but i didn't expect that europe reaches it so soon and try to find some moral excuse for this shortcoming."
And what will happen to the half that doesn't deserve asylum, and those that arrive after your "technical limit" is reached? Do you think they will just peacefully go back?
And what will happen to the half that doesn't deserve asylum, and those that arrive after your "technical limit" is reached? Do you think they will just peacefully go back?
4
“The current chaos on our external borders must end,” Donald Tusk, the president of the European Council, the body that called European leaders together to try to end their quarreling, said early Thursday. Warning that Europe could face millions of people seeking to enter its borders, he said “it is clear that the greatest tide of refugees and migrants is yet to come” and called for an end to “policies of open doors and windows.”
In another Times article today from a Times reporter in Germany, at a receiving center a woman advised that the system is at the point of collapse, another noted 'this cannot go on'. Wave after wave of migrants is arriving.
One German man expressed enthusiasm for the number of people arriving who could fill vacant jobs, another that it is a wonderful boost to the German people and Germany’s reputation to be seen as so welcoming.
Unfortunately, in other areas in Europe where Muslim communities have grown large, many become enclaves which wish little contact with the outside world, some of whom do not even recognize the authority of the government in the countries where they are residing.
This is a massive experiment, and as numbers grow, the pressure is on to do something rational and pragmatic. Europe cannot continue to accept thousands of more people arriving every single week.
In another Times article today from a Times reporter in Germany, at a receiving center a woman advised that the system is at the point of collapse, another noted 'this cannot go on'. Wave after wave of migrants is arriving.
One German man expressed enthusiasm for the number of people arriving who could fill vacant jobs, another that it is a wonderful boost to the German people and Germany’s reputation to be seen as so welcoming.
Unfortunately, in other areas in Europe where Muslim communities have grown large, many become enclaves which wish little contact with the outside world, some of whom do not even recognize the authority of the government in the countries where they are residing.
This is a massive experiment, and as numbers grow, the pressure is on to do something rational and pragmatic. Europe cannot continue to accept thousands of more people arriving every single week.
155
It's astonishing that most governments keep ignoring the crime, violence and other problems brought on by the Muslim communities that refuse to integrate or respect our laws.
Accepting all these people will not only add to those problems but will also send out yet another signal that Europe is open to anyone who wishes to come here. What will these leaders who can't lead do if/when millions more start crossing the border?
If there ever was a bad experiment...
Accepting all these people will not only add to those problems but will also send out yet another signal that Europe is open to anyone who wishes to come here. What will these leaders who can't lead do if/when millions more start crossing the border?
If there ever was a bad experiment...
56
True refugees must be redirected to existing camps in the Middle East and not allowed to enter Europe. This would provide them with protection while discouraging and eliminating the many economic migrants who have jumped on the band wagon in order to freeload off of Europe.
33
The Greek government threatened to dump huge numbers of Muslim migrants on Germany if Germany didn't ease Greece's debt.
Now it's payback time.
Now it's payback time.
68
Schadenfreude, to be sure.
2
Solving the Greek debt problem was very simple to do. Because it was a question of money. It looks like child's play in comparison to the the invasion of Europe with economic migrants who will impoverish their union and bring ills that will bring us back to religious wars.What the myopic vision!
2
The irony is that it is the economic success of Europe and the EU, relatively speaking, even factoring in transit countries like Greece, that makes Europe so attractive for refugee and migrant. The cumbersome European bureaucracy and lack of unity, which did not keep pace with economic success, will fail Europe, refugee and migrant and ultimately sharply effect for the worse the economic success that was so attractive. Chaos is not good for business.
53
If the EU can be swept aside by a tide surge of unarmed immigrants then its foundations are about as robust as those of a bureaucratic sandcastle. Let nature take its course now if this is all it takes to demolish it.
66
So it will collapse because of its freedom, and become just as bad as all the places the immigrants come from.
Funny how Russia doesn't have that problem...
Funny how Russia doesn't have that problem...
3
Europe's foundations - its better foundations - are in humanism. And those principles are now being exploited to bring about its demise.
2
Europe has little moral obligation to process asylum seekers and even less the economic refugees. Middle Eastern states are responsible for this mess by allowing the spread of Islamist extremism. How many are the Saudis absorbing? What about the Iraqis? For that matter, what about the Iranians, though they are not Arab either? What about the Russians who have propped up Assad throughout Syria's civil war and are now profiting from it strategically?
The Obama Administration's inaction must also be blamed and for this reason we should be stuck with some of these refugees--the ones who truly need it. But does anyone think for a moment that the Europeans will be able to sort out who belongs and who should return?
And does anyone with a vowel and a clue believe for a moment that a Fifth Column is in the making, though there numbers are likely very small? It only takes on terrorist sleeper cell to wake up the continent, which are now probably already in place.
The Obama Administration's inaction must also be blamed and for this reason we should be stuck with some of these refugees--the ones who truly need it. But does anyone think for a moment that the Europeans will be able to sort out who belongs and who should return?
And does anyone with a vowel and a clue believe for a moment that a Fifth Column is in the making, though there numbers are likely very small? It only takes on terrorist sleeper cell to wake up the continent, which are now probably already in place.
96
"Middle Eastern states are are responsible for this mess by allowing the spread of Islamist extremism." What an ignorant comment. The political leadership of most Middle Eastern states are horrified by the rise of extremism because it is a direct threat to their power. The only exception is Israel which aided Islamic movements during the 1980s to offset the political power of the PLO. Outside Palestine, the real responsibility for this extremist mess lies with two main parties, first the United States and its European allies who invaded Iraq and Afghanistan, and second, the Russians who maintain the Assad regime in Syria.
1
Oh Yes, ISIS, is now in Europe.
2
This is the thought I had today. Unfortunately, I think ISIS/terrorists have already slipped into Europe and benefiting from this chaos. They are laying down their ground work, probably with the help of European-born jihadists. With European residency, then these terrorists can freely travel to the US and other industrialized countries and set-up cells. God help us all.
2
It is a very important issue to deal with, locating immigrants should be difficult for Europe but, it is a moral obligation for humans to help their fellowmen, work together as a whole to become a friendly and more humanistic world, not only for nowadays generation, but also for future generations, it's a hard work but we have got to do it. Having a Holistic culture about the people around the world, because today is Syria, but it can be your country tomorrow, so it's like a gift that keeps on giving, called charity and love for the humankind.
3
Yes, it might be other countries tomorrow, if acceptance of people who refuse to make any concessions to, much less assimilate to, the existing culture continues. The Dutch have it exactly right in telling immigrants about their particular culture, that certain things characterize their country, and that if immigrants don't like them, then they shouldn't go there.
With apologies, it's probably easier for those in countries that basically offload their unskilled and uneducated laborers onto other countries that already have their poor and disenfranchised for whom to care to endorse open borders and unlimited charity. We in America do not have enough living-wage jobs for every citizen desiring one, and the influx of unskilled immigrants just makes things worse. As a person who has worked at a number of jobs, including unskilled field labor as a teenager, I simply don't buy the notion that Mexicans are taking only jobs Americans don't want to do, and the portrayal of Americans, the multiracial populace of descendants of those who built and who fought for this country, as lazy people is frankly insulting, serving only those who break our law and the greedy businesspeople who love to pay "off-the-books" or otherwise skirt federal law in hiring them.
With apologies, it's probably easier for those in countries that basically offload their unskilled and uneducated laborers onto other countries that already have their poor and disenfranchised for whom to care to endorse open borders and unlimited charity. We in America do not have enough living-wage jobs for every citizen desiring one, and the influx of unskilled immigrants just makes things worse. As a person who has worked at a number of jobs, including unskilled field labor as a teenager, I simply don't buy the notion that Mexicans are taking only jobs Americans don't want to do, and the portrayal of Americans, the multiracial populace of descendants of those who built and who fought for this country, as lazy people is frankly insulting, serving only those who break our law and the greedy businesspeople who love to pay "off-the-books" or otherwise skirt federal law in hiring them.
79
Alberto, I'm an immigrant myself. It's a complicated issue but this immigration to Europe is different from the immigration to the Americas. People who go to the Americas must work to survive, and many work very hard. These people coming to Europe are coming for the free handouts they'll get here, provided by the tax money of hard working Europeans.
If you don't believe that's the case, the fake refugees themselves will tell you that they want to go to Germany or Sweden, and that is because those countries are the most profitable for them. They don't even want to go to Denmark anymore because that country has cut benefits for immigrants.
If these were victims looking for a safe haven they'd have stayed in Turkey or Albania or Serbia, all of which are safe countries.
If you don't believe that's the case, the fake refugees themselves will tell you that they want to go to Germany or Sweden, and that is because those countries are the most profitable for them. They don't even want to go to Denmark anymore because that country has cut benefits for immigrants.
If these were victims looking for a safe haven they'd have stayed in Turkey or Albania or Serbia, all of which are safe countries.
59
How about protecting your future generations by maintaining your country's borders, language and culture? Outside of Germany, European unemployment is extremely high. Absorbing vast numbers of migrants who come from regions intolerant to religious freedom, women's rights, gays and lesbians and free speech is a recipe for disaster.
12
Until now, in both articles and editorials, the Times rarely mentioned the security problems that could arise from massive, uncontrolled migration and it tended to paint anyone who mentioned this as a heartless, xenophobic racist, It's refreshing to see an article where the problem is explicitly acknowledged.
254
I agree completely with your analysis. It was so refreshing to read this article in the NYT. I believe it is the first one I've seen in the NYT that had a balanced and accurate view of what was really going on in the European immigration crises.
2
Mum has been the word as well in most of the European press, which is even more self-censored and P.C. than the NYTimes. A ravine has been widening between the tenor of readers’ comments, and the editorial content of Le Monde, Die Zeit, Telepolis, etc. But as with the Times, some of the European press had gradually come round to admitting some of what is in front of everybody’s eyes.
For a view of the lead-up to the German situation, Google
=> "Deutschland schafft sich ab" Gutmenschen Telepolis
For a view of the lead-up to the German situation, Google
=> "Deutschland schafft sich ab" Gutmenschen Telepolis
2
As I have watched this unfold, I wonder if it will bring an end to the EU. This may be where the rubber meets the road. When individual countries have little to no say about their borders and who immigrates to their countries, it's certainly makes room for bitterness. And if you force countries to take in immigrants that they don't want and resent, then the possibility of them being mistreated in an effort to make them move on is another problem in putting forth a united EU front. Once an immigrant establishes residency in the EU, what's to stop them from moving to the EU country of their choice? This is a mess and I think there could be far reaching impacts that could bring back an old Europe with hostilities between their fellow countries.
221
All refugees, asylum seekers and economic migrants who have hopped on this band wagon must without exception be turned back. They should all be told that if they are truly fleeing war, they will be welcome and cared for in the refugee camps established within their own regions. This would eliminate the phonies as well as the people smugglers. There should be no option for any refugee to seek "asylum", i.e. live inside Europe. There is just too much wiggle room and opportunity for abuse if living inside Europe remains a possibility and temptation for anyone wanting to game the system.
4
Nothing will stop them moving, but a European explained to me that the way that it's supposed to work is that if you get assigned to a particular country, you can of course move , but you won't eligible for any benefits in any other country. So people won't be able to move from one of the poorer countries to one of the richer in hopes of greater benefits. That of course depends on being fingerprinted and being in the system so that the other countries know that you've moved from where you were first assigned.
2
Surely the eastern european countries like Hungary can complain all they want, but they knew full well what they're signing up for when they join the eurozone. There are economic benefits, but it's a deal with the devil, by signing away monetary policy to adopt euro, and now the wrangle over the redistribution of unwanted migrants is taking on full limelight for what it means to give up that part of sovereignty control, so that when Brussels says you have to take it, you have to take it, like it or not.
Ultimately though, none of these migrants want to stay in those countries anyways. When they have their papers ready (however temporary it might be), they'll just move their base to Germany or Sweden or UK. There'll be no stopping them, it's just a matter of time.
Ultimately though, none of these migrants want to stay in those countries anyways. When they have their papers ready (however temporary it might be), they'll just move their base to Germany or Sweden or UK. There'll be no stopping them, it's just a matter of time.
1
Several million refugees and migrants *will* move into Europe.
Period.
Done deal.
No stopping it.
Europe's ONLY alternative is to get ready for these people.
Period.
Done deal.
No stopping it.
Europe's ONLY alternative is to get ready for these people.
16
Nothing is ever a 'done deal'. They can, probably will, and should be turned back. Considering most of them are not Syrians and that most of them are fighting age males they should go back and fight their countries.
113
Well, Europe and its member nations still have a choice about HOW to prepare for this onslaught. They don't just have to let people continue to stream over their borders. And they don't have to let those who are there illegally, stay.
They can adjust laws, so that the children born of illegal migrants do not become citizens unless the parents are citizens, as well.
They can require fingerprints and identification, and confirm authenticity of passports; if there is no legitimate ID or fingerprints have been removed, no refugee status.
For those given asylum can decide whether family members may be brought in, or not...and if yes, how many.
This all seems so nuts. Europe is still made up of sovereign countries and they DO have a choice about who they allow in, and who they allow to stay. The shaming going on, as if Western nations have no business having borders, is absurd.
Grow a backbone, stop being so "nice" to people who will bring in more, and more, and breed in their enclaves until they become the majority...or say good bye to your families' futures.
Good-bye to European culture, art, music, language. Science, and equality, and nature as after a few generations with 6 kids per family there won't be much room for wildlife, either. Just more and more billions of people, until the inevitable crash. Great planning.
They can adjust laws, so that the children born of illegal migrants do not become citizens unless the parents are citizens, as well.
They can require fingerprints and identification, and confirm authenticity of passports; if there is no legitimate ID or fingerprints have been removed, no refugee status.
For those given asylum can decide whether family members may be brought in, or not...and if yes, how many.
This all seems so nuts. Europe is still made up of sovereign countries and they DO have a choice about who they allow in, and who they allow to stay. The shaming going on, as if Western nations have no business having borders, is absurd.
Grow a backbone, stop being so "nice" to people who will bring in more, and more, and breed in their enclaves until they become the majority...or say good bye to your families' futures.
Good-bye to European culture, art, music, language. Science, and equality, and nature as after a few generations with 6 kids per family there won't be much room for wildlife, either. Just more and more billions of people, until the inevitable crash. Great planning.
12
Planning for 160,000 when there are already half a million and the number is steadily growing is not dealing with reality. (1) the incongruity between the slow and inadequate process in Brussels and the urgency of the need of asylum seekers is clear. (2) Policies are failing to deal with the fast changing reality. Brussels, instead of being proactive is reacting in a knee jerk way.
This issue more than the Greek crisis is truly testing the European project. Could it be the beginning of the end for the European Union?
The U.S. is also not coming through to help in any meaningful way. If the U.S. wants the European Union to survive, it should perhaps take two million refugees rather than the proposed paltry 10, 000. Two million might seem a huge number but One out of four in Lebanon is a refugee.
It is a matter of political will. President Obama can afford to do this. He doesn't have to worry about reelection and it is good for his legacy.
This issue more than the Greek crisis is truly testing the European project. Could it be the beginning of the end for the European Union?
The U.S. is also not coming through to help in any meaningful way. If the U.S. wants the European Union to survive, it should perhaps take two million refugees rather than the proposed paltry 10, 000. Two million might seem a huge number but One out of four in Lebanon is a refugee.
It is a matter of political will. President Obama can afford to do this. He doesn't have to worry about reelection and it is good for his legacy.
16
Two million? Um... We have that many coming up and already in the US from Mexico and other places. We have enough problems with that.
68
If Obama were to do that, he would sink the Democratic party.
7
An extraordinary situation demands bold and courageous response. Germany is certainly leading the way but few are truly following. Not only the U.S. but Canada and Australia and every functioning state should come through. My belief is that the tide is going to get worse. The affluent world has a special responsibility.
The Gulf states should at the minimum help Jordan, Lebanon Malta, Italy, Greece and Turkey with increased aid for refugees.
It was done for the Vietnamese. With some political will, it can be done for Africans and Middle Easterners as well.
Please let us not dwell on meaningless excuses like "assimilation" "integration" and "Illegal immigration" etc. Truth be told, "illegal immigration began in 1492."
The Gulf states should at the minimum help Jordan, Lebanon Malta, Italy, Greece and Turkey with increased aid for refugees.
It was done for the Vietnamese. With some political will, it can be done for Africans and Middle Easterners as well.
Please let us not dwell on meaningless excuses like "assimilation" "integration" and "Illegal immigration" etc. Truth be told, "illegal immigration began in 1492."
1
All the talks about registering these migrants, refugees or otherwise, will become moot. The reality of it is, even if all these migrants are redistributed across various countries, once they got their papers, they're going to move themselves to Germany (or whichever countries they desire, including UK).
As for those try to paint some silver lining to this bleak picture, saying the influx of migrants is going to revive the declining population in countries like Germany and help solve labor shortage, think again. Sure, the population is going to grow, but is it really the kind of population mix that Germany wants in the long run?
And for those arguments saying these migrants who are, say, middle-class Syrians, engineers and all, it won't take long for these migrants and their offsprings (who will become second generations EU citizens in the future) to become disillusioned that they are pretty much stuck in some deadend factory jobs, even in their fantasyland of Germany. That's exactly the kind of recruits that ISIS and other radical islamic groups target these days.
I might be too jaded to see a bleak future, but these middle eastern transplants are going to turn Europe into their birth countries.
As for those try to paint some silver lining to this bleak picture, saying the influx of migrants is going to revive the declining population in countries like Germany and help solve labor shortage, think again. Sure, the population is going to grow, but is it really the kind of population mix that Germany wants in the long run?
And for those arguments saying these migrants who are, say, middle-class Syrians, engineers and all, it won't take long for these migrants and their offsprings (who will become second generations EU citizens in the future) to become disillusioned that they are pretty much stuck in some deadend factory jobs, even in their fantasyland of Germany. That's exactly the kind of recruits that ISIS and other radical islamic groups target these days.
I might be too jaded to see a bleak future, but these middle eastern transplants are going to turn Europe into their birth countries.
199
The migrants are going to move to the UK? The UK that refused to become bound by Schengen Agreement and does not permit free entry? The UK that's an island connected to Europe by a single tunnel? The UK that has been keeping out thousands of Africans attempting to enter from Calais for years now? The UK that pays the Moroccan government to keep people from crossing the razor-wire fences into Gibraltar, and expels those who make it across the fences without regard for their status? The UK that was the major force behind delaying free movement within the EU for citizens of Romania and Bulgaria?
The UK that will be voting on whether to remain in the EU in 2017?
That UK?
The UK will accept its allotment of migrants from the 120,000 - but only those who pass its own screening for refugee status. Then it will refuse to participate further in the chaos. The UK has already stated that it will develop its own system for intake of refugees from camps in Jordan and Lebanon, to aid women and children and to avoid rewarding queue-jumpers.
The other EU country that did not adopt the Schengen Agreement is Ireland.
One might imagine a North Sea alliance among UK, Ireland, non-EU Norway, and dissident Denmark.
The UK that will be voting on whether to remain in the EU in 2017?
That UK?
The UK will accept its allotment of migrants from the 120,000 - but only those who pass its own screening for refugee status. Then it will refuse to participate further in the chaos. The UK has already stated that it will develop its own system for intake of refugees from camps in Jordan and Lebanon, to aid women and children and to avoid rewarding queue-jumpers.
The other EU country that did not adopt the Schengen Agreement is Ireland.
One might imagine a North Sea alliance among UK, Ireland, non-EU Norway, and dissident Denmark.
74
Integration is important not just because the host countries want it but because the policies of the countries from which the migrants are fleeing are part of the problem. Sectarian battles and oppression of women are just two examples of the things that the bulk of the immigrants must let go of.
Yes, I know I'm a bigot. There is nothing wrong with their countries. It's all about the West.
Yes, I know I'm a bigot. There is nothing wrong with their countries. It's all about the West.
7
Until the dead boy on the beach made Merkel invite everyone to Germany, the crisis was in Calais...
2
Why don't they have a country like Greece be hired to do this work? Greeks need jobs. There is a flood of migrant refugees and they need help, food and so much. We can send Greece money, material, food, etc. Cripes! Greece needs jobs and money. The Greeks can take care of the dirty work the rest of Europe doesn't want to do. Most of these migrants only want to be safe until they can go back home. I think it's a win-win. Greece gets work and money. Europe and the World helps migrants. I say give it a try.
23
Smart, common sense stuff like this is never done on the World Stage.
All the Actors obsessed about their status, how they are perceived.
Humiliation for proud Greeks. Not a chance.
All the Actors obsessed about their status, how they are perceived.
Humiliation for proud Greeks. Not a chance.
7
Many of these migrants have been interviewed at this point. They have no intention of going back. They spent all their money to come to Europe. They are extremely lucid and clear in what they want -- to go to Germany or Sweden, and go on their very generous welfare programs.
In private, when they talk amongst themselves, the migrants must laughing hysterically at "stupid liberal westerners and their guilt".
In private, when they talk amongst themselves, the migrants must laughing hysterically at "stupid liberal westerners and their guilt".
164
Hired to do what work? The migrants don't want to sit around in Piraeus being hand-fed Euro-rations by the Greeks. And the Greek economy certainly has nothing for them at this point.
7
Europe is learning the hard way what Australia knows after boats started in the late 90s, were stopped by a conservative government amid howled accusations of racism, heartlessness etc, then were started again under a Leftist government whose leader went back on an undertaking to the contrary, then were stopped again by another conservative government accused of...well, you can guess. The simple fact is that people-smugglers and their allegedly innocent and deserving clients, know better than any Western politician that there isn't a happy medium between Yes and No in these matters. And as for the higher ethics of "compassionistas", Aristotle nailed this one 2300 years ago: in the end, impractical morality is no morality at all.
207
You're not a 'refugee' when you're from Somalia or Afghanistan or wherever and skip through various countries just to reach the one with the best benefits.
19
And impractical "morality" is, in fact, highly immoral -- because it is one-sided and imprudent and ignores the very predictable and very real, if unintended, negative consequences to others -- in this case, the European people.
9
I am baffled that NO ONE has offered the optional solution to this refugee crisis of creating a sanctuary inside Syria. It could be a NATO venture as all the nations of NATO are dealing with this refugee crisis. Create a "ad hoc" state to which all these refugees could go and find protection from both ISIS and Assad.
The borders would be protected by NATO troops perhaps working with the UN ... if the UN security council would allow it. But the chaos and confusion of the current situation ... untenable.
The borders would be protected by NATO troops perhaps working with the UN ... if the UN security council would allow it. But the chaos and confusion of the current situation ... untenable.
90
Commenter mike nicosia of seattle says, "I am baffled that NO ONE has offered the optional solution to this refugee crisis of creating a sanctuary inside Syria. It could be a NATO venture as all the nations of NATO are dealing with this refugee crisis. Create a "ad hoc" state to which all these refugees could go and find protection from both ISIS and Assad..."
I'm with you, mike, in asking why the *only* solution being touted is for vast numbers of Middle Easterners to be transplanted instantly! right now! to Western countries. Carefully vetted, in small numbers, and properly oriented, immigrants can be assimilated with relative ease and great benefit to the host nations; under the current plan, the gates are being breached by many aggressive, angry young men demanding not only entrance, but passage to the country of their choice. One wonders why they left their women and children in harm's way if the situation there is so dire. Maybe not as urgent as we feared?
Perhaps a better solution is for us in the West to give generously to provide good schools and all other amenities of normal towns in the Middle East, whether they be in safe zones within Syrian borders or in existing camps. The countries already harboring refugees should be rewarded and encouraged.
I'm with you, mike, in asking why the *only* solution being touted is for vast numbers of Middle Easterners to be transplanted instantly! right now! to Western countries. Carefully vetted, in small numbers, and properly oriented, immigrants can be assimilated with relative ease and great benefit to the host nations; under the current plan, the gates are being breached by many aggressive, angry young men demanding not only entrance, but passage to the country of their choice. One wonders why they left their women and children in harm's way if the situation there is so dire. Maybe not as urgent as we feared?
Perhaps a better solution is for us in the West to give generously to provide good schools and all other amenities of normal towns in the Middle East, whether they be in safe zones within Syrian borders or in existing camps. The countries already harboring refugees should be rewarded and encouraged.
2
Greece's new policy: Pass the buck.
7
What makes it Greece's buck in the first place?
2
They are passing the poorhouse back after Merkel left them in poverty
1
Picture after picture show the majority of migrants as men. Surely they have family and after, what, a year in some European countries, they can bring that family to Europe.
Is it fair then, to say that many male immigrants can be multiplied by a factor of 4 or 5, perhaps more, given high fertility?
I fear that sooner rather than later, Chancellor Angela Merkel, who a few years ago herself proclaimed multiculturalism a failure, will confess that the integration/make-them-productive-German-citizens may be hitting more than a few rough patches.
(And remember, this has been crammed down the throats of all European Union members.)
Is it fair then, to say that many male immigrants can be multiplied by a factor of 4 or 5, perhaps more, given high fertility?
I fear that sooner rather than later, Chancellor Angela Merkel, who a few years ago herself proclaimed multiculturalism a failure, will confess that the integration/make-them-productive-German-citizens may be hitting more than a few rough patches.
(And remember, this has been crammed down the throats of all European Union members.)
198
"sooner rather than later, Chancellor Angela Merkel, who a few years ago herself proclaimed multiculturalism a failure, will confess that the integration/make-them-productive-German-citizens may be hitting more than a few rough patches."
If this continues much longer, I predict that sooner rather than later Angela Merkel will no longer be Chancellor.
If this continues much longer, I predict that sooner rather than later Angela Merkel will no longer be Chancellor.
84
A high percentage of them aren't Syrians at all. You have Iraqis, Kurds, Palestinians, Pakistanis, Afghans, etc. All good fighting age men who should be fighting for their countries against ISIS or the Taliban.
12
Merkel no longer Chancellor? From your lips to God's ears!
2
The Greeks have opened the door and are exacting revenge against Germany by sending hundreds of thousands of poor people in their direction. The problem is they are damaging a lot of "bystander" nations in between. As usual European solidarity and unity are shown to be little more than fiction.
61
The Greeks SHOULD open the door.
They should also cooperate with Russia in places like Syria.
Why shouldn't they?
Greece has gotten nothing from Europe.
Even the bail-out solves no problem for Greece.
Greece, in spite of its problems, is one of the few European countries I respect and would visit to spend my tourist dollars.
They should also cooperate with Russia in places like Syria.
Why shouldn't they?
Greece has gotten nothing from Europe.
Even the bail-out solves no problem for Greece.
Greece, in spite of its problems, is one of the few European countries I respect and would visit to spend my tourist dollars.
18
Far from opened doors, Greece and Italy, short of sinking migrant laden rafts or turning them away on the high seas, has little choice in the matter. The fault lies with Germany which has misconceived itself as the de facto ruler of Europe.
5
The Greeks did not "open the door". Germany opened the door, and it, along with the rest of Europe, will rue the day. So sad.
3
The EU seems to be falling apart. Soon it will be every nation for itself in dealing with the large number of immigrants.
101
The Euro zone was designed to benefit Germany.
Although I appreciate that Germany is now doing more than most when it comes to migrants, Germany's "debt" in terms of planning and foresight are now coming due.
Although I appreciate that Germany is now doing more than most when it comes to migrants, Germany's "debt" in terms of planning and foresight are now coming due.
7
Actually it was designed for the French, who got Germany to sign on as part of the deal allowing reunification with East Germany. The majority of Germans never wanted to get rid of the Mark. To the horror of the French, Germany had a better and more efficient economy.
30
The German lower and middle classes are doing worse with the euro than they did with the deutschmark. Most of them have not benefited from the EU or euro.
12