"Israel undermines stability by failing to negotiate peace with the Palestinians." As usual, the NYT has no qualms about repeating historical inaccuracies to further its misguided agenda. While most countries of the Middle East are undergoing unprecedented turmoil, Israel remains a sea of stability.
25
Another absurd Times accusation that Israel is to blame for not reaching a deal with the Palestinians who havwe reapeatedly walked from the table and refused to even recognize Israel as a Jewish State when they seek a Palestinain state. To the contrary, Israeli might and democracy is the only stabilizing force left in the region and will continue to be given the inept foerign policy of this administration and ridiculous blame being assigned by the Times.
26
The board writes: "America has a responsibility to help ensure the security of Israel and the gulf allies"
No, we don't!
No, we don't!
38
What you fail to realize is that you cannot negotiate with someone who wants you dead. Whether or not some Palestinian organizations talk about peace, the truth is that they will only accept the end of Israel as their solution to the middle east problem. This does not condone all actions by Israel nor does it condone support for settlers in the West Bank. I does make clear that your hope for negotiations is absurd until Israel is accepted as a legitimate entity by their negotiating partners.
21
Given Israel's operational nuclear triad (80 plus nukes - Jericho land missiles, German diesel subs, and US F-15 delivery) and our history of active support of their nuclear and conventional delivery capabilities, we have no obligation to further inflame the MIddle East doing Israel's bidding while compromising America's long-term interests.
35
It strikes me that there are numerous nations, factions, and groups -- including, as examples, Israel, Saudi Arabia, assorted "freedom fighters" in Syria, and the Kurds -- that urge the US to militarily reenter the Middle East chaos. Of course, each argue for reentry on their side, against their enemy(ies), and chiefly at our expense. None offer "light at the end of the tunnel", but only more of the same.
Like Bush the Elder, I suggest we be very prudent.
Like Bush the Elder, I suggest we be very prudent.
13
I would very much like to see President Obama invite former President Jimmy Carter to the White House, before he dies, to consult with him about world affairs and especially the Middle East. He did, after all, broker a peace agreement between Israel and its arch enemy Egypt. How big a deal was that? Well, I remember where I was when I heard Kennedy had been shot; and I remember where I was when I heard Anwar Sadat had been assassinated. Those two things.
Carter's intelligence and his contributions are of the highest order. Through the Carter Center, he and Mrs. Carter have made steady progress in bringing about better lives for poor people around the world. He has used his status, intellect, work ethic and compassion to make friends for the U.S. By contrast, Bill Clinton, whose advice is widely sought after, saddled the country with NAFTA, and has enriched himself and his family beyond their wildest dreams.
Since the birth of Israel, only one president has managed to achieve a meaningful détente between Israel and an archenemy, and that is Jimmy Carter. The cast of characters is different today, but that does not mean he does not have something useful to offer. President Obama should seek his counsel. He has a valuable perspective.
Carter's intelligence and his contributions are of the highest order. Through the Carter Center, he and Mrs. Carter have made steady progress in bringing about better lives for poor people around the world. He has used his status, intellect, work ethic and compassion to make friends for the U.S. By contrast, Bill Clinton, whose advice is widely sought after, saddled the country with NAFTA, and has enriched himself and his family beyond their wildest dreams.
Since the birth of Israel, only one president has managed to achieve a meaningful détente between Israel and an archenemy, and that is Jimmy Carter. The cast of characters is different today, but that does not mean he does not have something useful to offer. President Obama should seek his counsel. He has a valuable perspective.
25
In reading many of the NYT Picks in the comments sectuon, there is a common theme that arming Israel is a threat to the rest of the middle east. Did I miss Israel stating that any of the other nations int he middle east should be pushed into the sea? Did I miss Israel arming the people in other nations and encouraging terrorism and indiscriminate killing of civilians? Did i miss Israel stating that they would use arms as offensive weapons to crush other nations? NO. There is simply no comparison or analogy between Israel having weapons and Iran, Syria or any of the other U.S. hating Middle East nations having weapons. Before we bemoan Israel getting more aircraft, let's not forget that Iran is getting over $100B in the next couple of years from the release of sanctions.
20
Rhetoric that Israel, (well....the US with the goading of Israel), should preemptively attack because of their alleged nuclear arms programs has been spewed by Bibi since the early 90's...with all options on the table.
Israel wanted to attack Iran whether or not Iran actually had or was working on getting nukes, but just because it has a civilian nuclear program.
When Israel and the US say that, "all options are on the table", in an Iranian attack, that includes the nuclear option.
So it's just fine for two nuclear armed nations, (one of whom has Iran completely surrounded by military bases, allies and their 5th fleet in Bahrain), can threaten Iran with nuclear attack, but if Iran threatens to retaliate, they are the bad guys?
Iran spends less on their military than any other country in the region, except for Yemen...and look how well that's working out for Yemen.
For Israel and the US to play the helpless waif, is laughable...but if it keeps American weapons of death working, keep at it folks.
Israel wanted to attack Iran whether or not Iran actually had or was working on getting nukes, but just because it has a civilian nuclear program.
When Israel and the US say that, "all options are on the table", in an Iranian attack, that includes the nuclear option.
So it's just fine for two nuclear armed nations, (one of whom has Iran completely surrounded by military bases, allies and their 5th fleet in Bahrain), can threaten Iran with nuclear attack, but if Iran threatens to retaliate, they are the bad guys?
Iran spends less on their military than any other country in the region, except for Yemen...and look how well that's working out for Yemen.
For Israel and the US to play the helpless waif, is laughable...but if it keeps American weapons of death working, keep at it folks.
21
What was the Iran deal for? If 3 months after its signature the US is preparing to arm Israel to the teeth? It seems to me like MIC in the US, and its counterparts in Russia and China have won again. ( Iran will try to match all these weapons by going on a shopping spree in Russia and China)
14
The funniest bit is that the only nuclear armed nation in the middle east, (except the US, of course), whines when Iran tries to arm itself against attack.
On one hand, Bibi laughs at the Iranian military, and on the other, complains that Iran is protecting itself against Israeli attack.
How dare a country try to defend itself when it has been threatened with attack by 2 nuclear powers on an almost daily basis.
How dare they...
On one hand, Bibi laughs at the Iranian military, and on the other, complains that Iran is protecting itself against Israeli attack.
How dare a country try to defend itself when it has been threatened with attack by 2 nuclear powers on an almost daily basis.
How dare they...
18
Netanyahu and right-wing Israel has the end game of greater Israel reigning supreme militarily in the Middle East.
Toward that end the program is (1) to continue the grinding aggression of displacement of the Palestinians and settlement building, and (2) to get the US to fight a war with Iran.
Neither of these things is in the US interest.
The US adding more money and weapons to Israel's 'aid' does not serve US interests.
Toward that end the program is (1) to continue the grinding aggression of displacement of the Palestinians and settlement building, and (2) to get the US to fight a war with Iran.
Neither of these things is in the US interest.
The US adding more money and weapons to Israel's 'aid' does not serve US interests.
33
The Iran Deal will curtail Iran's nuclear capability for at lest 10-15 years besides the fact it will protect Israel's safety. It is ironic that it is Israel who is protesting the loudest. Now that the Deal is a reality, why and what are we reassuring Israel for? We always have and will protect Israel. With the Iran Deal, Israel will have no need for sophisticated military equipment of which they have plenty notwithstanding their secret and clandestine nuclear capability. So what is the necessity to arm Israel further which would only lead to more imbalance in the Middle East. No wonder the rest of the world looks askance as we continue to arm Israel. If we and Israel want REAL PEACE, let's start with diplomacy, not guns.
19
So, how do you build trust after O has sacrificed Syria, Iraq, Kurds, the Urkraine, Poland, and the Baltic states? Who'd trust him or us?
11
As a US Citizen and tax payer, I question the need to pander to Israel and send them tens of billions of dollars weapons/aid when already Israel has a vastly superior armed forces in the Middle-East?
I suspect American politicians blindly support Israel for political donations from Israeli's lobbies and Jewish millionaires/billionaires.
There are three primary villains in the Middle-East joined at the hips, responsible for the mess: Saudi Arabia, Israel and Iran (the former two supported by America)
I suspect American politicians blindly support Israel for political donations from Israeli's lobbies and Jewish millionaires/billionaires.
There are three primary villains in the Middle-East joined at the hips, responsible for the mess: Saudi Arabia, Israel and Iran (the former two supported by America)
24
Thinking back to yesterday, Yom Kippur, when our prayer books remind us of the joys and obligations of being Jewish, but also of the Holocaust, the pogroms, the inquisitions, the forced conversions, the exiles and the blood libels attendant to being Jewish over the couse of the centuries, I have a difficult time understanding an editorial like this, coming as it does in the midst of unprecedented dangers to Israel in the Middle East; except as a deliberate effort to rally support and a place at the table for the Times among enemies of Israel.
16
Israel is armed with the most sophisticated weapons American money can buy. They are armed with hundreds of nukes. The nuclear armed US has bases surrounding Iran, and their allies in the region are also armed to the teeth by western weapons, weapons at the moment being used by Saudi to decimate a country and put 20 million people in mortal danger.
Israel has publicly teamed up with Saudi, the home of Jew hating Wahhabiism, where death to Israel chants are a regular thing, yet somehow, Saudi, (the 4th best armed country in the world), is safe, and Iran is a terrible danger.
The rest of the world doesn't buy it. The only ones who do are AIPAC shills..
Israel has publicly teamed up with Saudi, the home of Jew hating Wahhabiism, where death to Israel chants are a regular thing, yet somehow, Saudi, (the 4th best armed country in the world), is safe, and Iran is a terrible danger.
The rest of the world doesn't buy it. The only ones who do are AIPAC shills..
26
"Israel undermines stability by failing to negotiate peace with the Palestinians."
Really???
Really???
13
I'm not convinced the US owes Israel anything, especially after the obscene intrusion into American politics by Netanyahu and AIPAC. As an American, I deeply resented their efforts to intimidate our political class into starting yet another war in the Middle East, no doubt to be fought and paid for largely by Americans. I am equally offended by the GOP's apparent eagerness to start that war in return for AIPAC's support.
34
I have idea. All/most of the nations of the Middle East (e.g. Israel, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc.) should arrange to meet collectively with the objective of beginning to peacefully mitigate, for themselves, regional political, religious, and historical/present anxieties, all with the aim of finding advantages in cooperation. The US and other outside powers would NOT be involved. Perhaps the Pope could help with arrangements. Netanyahu might jump-start the affair (a la Nixon) by publicly offering to meet with the Iranians (without warlike fanfare, of course).
Of course, I suggest too much.
Of course, I suggest too much.
10
I think that the Iran deal will bite us in the fourth point of contact - however I fail to see how the guy from Brooklyn can dictate to us - the republicans invite him to speak to congress and take umbrage at the pope doing the same - bag of worms
6
The deed is done and, any further interpretation is moot.
If the past is of any value, Iran will violate the deal and continue using released monies for their region's proxy wars/terror. This is what they do best!
Per hopes reflected in the editorial, certainly with a 'tongue-in-cheek': No, we do not have " Peace For Our Time".
If the past is of any value, Iran will violate the deal and continue using released monies for their region's proxy wars/terror. This is what they do best!
Per hopes reflected in the editorial, certainly with a 'tongue-in-cheek': No, we do not have " Peace For Our Time".
8
Ideally US should ,have a strong defence co -operation between USA ,India and Israel and also countries like UK ,France and Germany to handle the Middle East crisis in particular Pakistan which seems to be the hot bed for all kinds of threats and establish peace in the Middle East and South Asia .The US should also focus in controlling China which seems to violating peace in the South China sea and arming Pakistan heavily and threatening Japan and needs to get India and Australia involved. A country like India with huge well trained army will be advantageous to the US in establishing peace in the region
The US has a greater share of responsibility in ensuring peace in Asia as a top priority
The US has a greater share of responsibility in ensuring peace in Asia as a top priority
1
One more thing to be glad about on this sunny day is seeing that,
finaly, americans are sick of Israel's screaming for more money,
and bunker busting bombs and sneaking in a thousand ways
to control the congress and everything else they can do.
It is time to cut the string. And everyone knows it.
This editorial could only have come from an Israel centric newspaper.
Otherwise it's arguments are a complete joke.
finaly, americans are sick of Israel's screaming for more money,
and bunker busting bombs and sneaking in a thousand ways
to control the congress and everything else they can do.
It is time to cut the string. And everyone knows it.
This editorial could only have come from an Israel centric newspaper.
Otherwise it's arguments are a complete joke.
22
Let The next president name John Kerry as ambassador to Iran.
4
Name one thing the Arabs have offered Israel in return for peace and security since the UN founded the Jewish State in the 1940's?
10
I am tired of our finest young people dying in Afghanistan and Iraq for the benefit of Israel.
I do not want them to be sacrificed in Iran for the benefit of Israel!
I do not want them to be sacrificed in Iran for the benefit of Israel!
36
For the benefit of Israel? You're joking if course.
11
If Israel causes an issue, it would be easy to change the source of the TAPI pipeline from Caspian gas fields owned by Israel to Iran, which is where is should come from in the first place.
The bigger concern is Qatar and the Saudis who will move to get Nukes from Pakistan and have a showdown with Iran.
The bigger concern is Qatar and the Saudis who will move to get Nukes from Pakistan and have a showdown with Iran.
2
Given the already voluminous information that has already emerged concerning the mistakes, failures and omissions of the Iran deal, one might have thought that today’s editorial was going to be entitled “Our Sincere Apologies to Mr. Netanyahu.” But, of course, it was not. Instead what we got was a tired rehashing of Mr. Netanyahu’s supposed betrayal of President Obama and the Republican Party’s supposed betrayal of all that is holy.
More and more, the Times is coming to closely resemble the Japanese soldiers who retreated into the jungles of the Pacific after World War II to make one last stand for the Emperor. Except this time, we have the editors of the Times in there defending President Obama by throwing stink bombs at Israel, which just happens to be one of the few remaining liberal democracies in the world, and the only one in the Middle East.
The Japanese soldiers did eventually come out of the jungle after many years. I doubt that the editors of the Times ever will. The soldiers were actually guilty of nothing more than attempting to support their Emperor with a few old rifles, and the Times editors have been guilty of much more. Which I suppose is why history will ultimately be according the Japanese soldiers a far better reputation than the editors of the Times.
More and more, the Times is coming to closely resemble the Japanese soldiers who retreated into the jungles of the Pacific after World War II to make one last stand for the Emperor. Except this time, we have the editors of the Times in there defending President Obama by throwing stink bombs at Israel, which just happens to be one of the few remaining liberal democracies in the world, and the only one in the Middle East.
The Japanese soldiers did eventually come out of the jungle after many years. I doubt that the editors of the Times ever will. The soldiers were actually guilty of nothing more than attempting to support their Emperor with a few old rifles, and the Times editors have been guilty of much more. Which I suppose is why history will ultimately be according the Japanese soldiers a far better reputation than the editors of the Times.
13
There is a deliberate ignoring of the Parchin samples which were provided by Iran with no oversight. Matt Lee of AP reported that was the agreement with Iran and now the media is vilifying or ignoring him but as he says, reported or contradicted, his facts stand.
1
You're mixing fiction with reality.
2
This is an egregiously false accusation in this editorial. Israel does not refuse to negotiate with the Palestinians. Israel has at least twice in the last ten years offered the Palestinians a state. The Palestinians on the other hand refuse to negotiate for two states. The so-called extremists Hamas are racist Islamic anti- Semitic fanatics who vow to destroy Israel. The so-called moderates Fatah also refuse to recognize a Jewish state, and do not want a genuine two-state solution.
Repeating this falsehood is a form of defamation that certainly does not forward the cause of peace.
Repeating this falsehood is a form of defamation that certainly does not forward the cause of peace.
16
Words matter. This editorial, while bringing forth salient points, was crafted in such a way as to bring out the "best" in the anti-Israel crowd. What is missing, from the editorial and too many responses, is the legitimate fear that Iran will use the released money to attack Israel thru its proxies. That Iran still threatens to destroy Israel; several times after the concluded deal. Why is this vital point left out? The motive is best left to the logical imagination of thinking supporters of Israel. Hint - Iran doesn't threaten Saudi Arabia with extinction.
19
We don't owe Israel *anything*. That little country meddles in our internal affairs and constantly tries to drive us to fight its wars for them, even when it is against our interests.
Let's not increase "aid" (ie, money and weapons) to Israel. Israel is an international belligerent and a gross human rights violator. Let's take the billions of dollars we simply *give* the Israelis and invest that in our schools and public infrastructure. And let's not give an already nuclear-armed nation more firepower. We need to cut off all military aid to the Middle East.
Let's not increase "aid" (ie, money and weapons) to Israel. Israel is an international belligerent and a gross human rights violator. Let's take the billions of dollars we simply *give* the Israelis and invest that in our schools and public infrastructure. And let's not give an already nuclear-armed nation more firepower. We need to cut off all military aid to the Middle East.
19
So when do all of the people in the "why are we supporting Israel" camp actually wake up and realize that military aid to all Middle Eastern allies - Israel, KSA, UAE, Egypt - that have been raised by both the Executive and Legislative Branches is basically feeding the US arms industry?
OK - got that now?
Now - take another vantage point of what's happening - EU markets are stagnating and dropping sanctions on Iran opens up new revenue streams - consumer and industrial. So the deal basically feeds EU companies.
It's all a money game - nothing more, nothing less - and the US gets rich, the EU gets rich, Iran gets rich, and everyone goes to bed happy with all their new toys!!!
OK - got that now?
Now - take another vantage point of what's happening - EU markets are stagnating and dropping sanctions on Iran opens up new revenue streams - consumer and industrial. So the deal basically feeds EU companies.
It's all a money game - nothing more, nothing less - and the US gets rich, the EU gets rich, Iran gets rich, and everyone goes to bed happy with all their new toys!!!
5
RNR516: That most of the military aid to countries in the ME is basically feeding the US arms industry is undoubtedly not news to those supporting Israel. Certainly, I have pointed out time and time again in NYT comment sections, as have others, that the US benefits from its aid to Israel in terms of American jobs, new weapon development, and probably covertly obtained information on other ME states obtained by Israel and passed on to the US. So why are you singling out those who support Israel?
4
Regarding Netanyahu, Seldom in history has one demanded so much and returned so little.Why?
17
I have a different take, it is high time Israel dumped its Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Earlier this week the NYTimes published an Op-Ed piece titled Israel Needs New Friends. It should have been titled Israel has a strange view of what a friend is. Israel is more like an ill mannered in-law or relative, we are constantly embarrassed and insulted and yet they still come asking to borrow money they never repay.
In the past few years Prime Minister Netanyahu has announced new settlements almost every time the US tries to get some peace going on thus ensuring maximum insult and humiliation to the US. Israel has sold US funded technology to countries like India and China in direct opposition to the US who paid for it. Israel has "borrowed" arms from strategic stockpiles located in Israel without asking or informing the US. And it what could only be termed an act of amazing hubris PM Netanyahu spoke in favor of one Presidential candidate during an election race.
I am a strong supporter of Israel and its right to exist, I don not support Prime Minister Netanyahu and his supporters.
In the past few years Prime Minister Netanyahu has announced new settlements almost every time the US tries to get some peace going on thus ensuring maximum insult and humiliation to the US. Israel has sold US funded technology to countries like India and China in direct opposition to the US who paid for it. Israel has "borrowed" arms from strategic stockpiles located in Israel without asking or informing the US. And it what could only be termed an act of amazing hubris PM Netanyahu spoke in favor of one Presidential candidate during an election race.
I am a strong supporter of Israel and its right to exist, I don not support Prime Minister Netanyahu and his supporters.
9
"America has a responsibility to help ensure the security of Israel..."
WHY?
"Since 2009, the United States has provided Israel with more than $20 billion in military aid...more than $3 billion for missile defense systems and $1.9 billion in precision-guided munitions."
WHY??
"Mr. Obama pledged to further strengthen the relationship by...renewing assurances that Israel, the only country in the region with nuclear weapons, will always have military superiority over its neighbors."
WHY???
America's historical reasons for sponsorship of Jewish settlement in the middle east are today outmoded. Now Israelis DEMAND that their American sponsors continue to condone their development of nuclear weapons and flaunting of the NPT and to provide unlimited supplies of the most sophisticated conventional weapons on the premise that the Jewish nation has a right to exist, which in practice means the right to conquer the Palestinians and take over their land. They are alarmed that Iran may use its money to wipe them off the map, while they expect unquestioning American financial support for their efforts to do the same to the Palestinians.
Writing for these pages, Shmuel Rosner said it best: Israel needs new friends. More emphatically, so does the United States. It is past time for the old relationship to end.
WHY?
"Since 2009, the United States has provided Israel with more than $20 billion in military aid...more than $3 billion for missile defense systems and $1.9 billion in precision-guided munitions."
WHY??
"Mr. Obama pledged to further strengthen the relationship by...renewing assurances that Israel, the only country in the region with nuclear weapons, will always have military superiority over its neighbors."
WHY???
America's historical reasons for sponsorship of Jewish settlement in the middle east are today outmoded. Now Israelis DEMAND that their American sponsors continue to condone their development of nuclear weapons and flaunting of the NPT and to provide unlimited supplies of the most sophisticated conventional weapons on the premise that the Jewish nation has a right to exist, which in practice means the right to conquer the Palestinians and take over their land. They are alarmed that Iran may use its money to wipe them off the map, while they expect unquestioning American financial support for their efforts to do the same to the Palestinians.
Writing for these pages, Shmuel Rosner said it best: Israel needs new friends. More emphatically, so does the United States. It is past time for the old relationship to end.
15
Val in Brooklyn. To the Editorial Bd. : You're wrong.
This is a broken record I'm sick of hearing: billions of dollars, nuclear this, nuclear that, bitter political tensions, overseas banks. the M.E., bombs, military superiority, hardliners, relationships, extremist groups.
In the last week or so, I've read and heard about: ISIS, soldiers' suicides, child abuse, murder, refugees, slaughter abroad, etc. Most, if not all of which stems from oil, so-called rare earth minerals, etc., but always OIL! We've been everywhere raping the planet, upending lives for crude oil. Black gunk. And for profit for the very few at the top.
Meanwhile, what's left of this planet and this country including: our roads, schools, homeless, and everything that needs attention and financial
support--well, that's just expendable, isn't it?
Right now, even the Pope makes more sense. At least he denounces weapons! And I'm no fan of Catholicism or organized religion, in general. For the love of reason--assuming anyone still has or cares about reason--enough already!
Enough. Enough. Enough.
This is a broken record I'm sick of hearing: billions of dollars, nuclear this, nuclear that, bitter political tensions, overseas banks. the M.E., bombs, military superiority, hardliners, relationships, extremist groups.
In the last week or so, I've read and heard about: ISIS, soldiers' suicides, child abuse, murder, refugees, slaughter abroad, etc. Most, if not all of which stems from oil, so-called rare earth minerals, etc., but always OIL! We've been everywhere raping the planet, upending lives for crude oil. Black gunk. And for profit for the very few at the top.
Meanwhile, what's left of this planet and this country including: our roads, schools, homeless, and everything that needs attention and financial
support--well, that's just expendable, isn't it?
Right now, even the Pope makes more sense. At least he denounces weapons! And I'm no fan of Catholicism or organized religion, in general. For the love of reason--assuming anyone still has or cares about reason--enough already!
Enough. Enough. Enough.
3
At a minimum we should condition all aid on dismantling of settlements. If Netanyahu regards security as enough of a problem (else why would increased aid by the US be necessary), sacrificing a few settlements should be a no-brainer. Every parent has seen where giving too much for free leads: spoiled, entitled behavior.
13
It is true that Israel receives billions of dollars in aid, however it is not in form of cash, but in the form of military hardware. American workers in American factories get paid from the US government to produce hardware that is then shipped to Israel. The aid is very simply a US government subsidy to the American military industrial complex. People have the right to be against this whole concept of course, but framing this in the context of money to Israel VS. money to hungry American children is just falsehood. One may ask what will be the consequences of stopping the aid to Israel. The answer is simply higher unemployment due to thousands of skilled workers getting laid off (resulting in more hungry children?) and a substantial risk to the survival of a vital US ally.
6
I am puzzled. Just exactly why do we need to keep providing security and billions of dollars to Israel? So far it seems to be a one-side relationship. WE give them money and they take the money and provide exactly nothing in return.
I'd be more worried about Israel's aggrssion in the region than Iran. Remember most of the Arab objections to Israel still revolves around their illegal occupation of the West Bank and the continued inflow of illegal jewish settlers. Lot of this would go away if Israel would pull back to the 1967 borders.
Final question, if Iran complies and does not build a nuclear weapon, is Israel ready to give up their nuclear weapons?
I'd be more worried about Israel's aggrssion in the region than Iran. Remember most of the Arab objections to Israel still revolves around their illegal occupation of the West Bank and the continued inflow of illegal jewish settlers. Lot of this would go away if Israel would pull back to the 1967 borders.
Final question, if Iran complies and does not build a nuclear weapon, is Israel ready to give up their nuclear weapons?
16
President Obama's Nuclear Treaty with Iran allows Iran to have Nuclear Weapons ten years after this treaty is agreed and ratified by all of the governmental parties to this agreement!
The USA will have "Peace in Our Time" because Iran agreed to not build nuclear weapons for the next ten years.
Now there is no need to worry about any future nuclear attacks on the USA by Iran until ten years from now!
The USA will have "Peace in Our Time" because Iran agreed to not build nuclear weapons for the next ten years.
Now there is no need to worry about any future nuclear attacks on the USA by Iran until ten years from now!
2
Actually, it does no such thing, and it's not "President Obama's Nuclear Treaty," but a 7-nation pact which includes the United States, and which explicitly prohibits Iran from nuclear armament permanently in its terms. Read it yourself. {Jonathan}
4
We have no moral, ethical, or legal duty to reassure Israel that this is a good deal for them. That it is good for Israel is self-evident. We cannot reward Israeli interference in domestic US politics.
If anything, we need to punish Israel for openly attempting to harm US national interests. Israel needs to be taught a lesson, just as the first President Bush did when he suspended loan guarantees when Israel refused to stop violating international law by stealing Palestinian land.
It's time for us to bring Israel to heel.
If anything, we need to punish Israel for openly attempting to harm US national interests. Israel needs to be taught a lesson, just as the first President Bush did when he suspended loan guarantees when Israel refused to stop violating international law by stealing Palestinian land.
It's time for us to bring Israel to heel.
17
No, not another dime or arms deal for Israel or Saudi Arabia. These are mega human rights abuses and serial aggressors. In May the Jerusalem Post reported Netanyahu was asking for $45 billion more. Outrageous. The Iran nuclear deal was a huge favor for Israel, preventing any possibility of Iran having nuclear weapons to deter Israel's 200 A-bomb swagger. Spend the money on our veterans or refugees or to fight global warming, anything but engorging the settler-fundamentalist government of Israel.
19
It is abundantly clear that nothing would make the NYT Ed Board and its sycophants happier than the annihilation of Israel. With almost predictable regularity, the NYT Ed Board seems to spew forth a stream of anti-Israel Op-Eds from which the most violently anti_Israel commenters predictable suckle. Am I reading Der Sturmer?
12
Your paranoia is what is causing your bias.
Israel is a no more danger than the rest of the world.
That was a very balanced article. Your lack of balance is the problem.
Israel is a no more danger than the rest of the world.
That was a very balanced article. Your lack of balance is the problem.
2
Israel will be the only Middle East nation to have the advanced F-35 jet fighter? Are we sure that ISIS didn't grab a couple of left-overs?
2
25 billion to Israel in the last six years. We are now to accept an increase at the expense of domestic programs!? Meanwhile Prime Minister Netanyahu does nothing to end the shameful Occupation of Palestine, much to stir up conflict and offers steadfast aversion to use of diplomacy. Why do we put the welfare of Israel above that of our citizenry, infrastructure, educational system, etc. Israel does NOT share our values and uses our gifts to oppress and persecute the very people they removed from the land they occupy through Ethnic Cleansing. It's time to cut Israel loose so that they can assess the consequences of it's policies and develop ones that promote peace. I certainly want my tax money to go toward expanding health care, improving education, promoting clean energy shoring up our eroding infrastructure. right here in the U.S.
21
President Obama is not burden with protecting Israel, no more than Israel is burden with protecting our interest. Sooner or later Israel will have to grow up and stand on its own. It is the most powerful military force in the region, but somehow refuses to make peace with the Palestinians. It refuses to accept a fact that if it were to find a solution to let another disenfranchised people live freely, then it might be able to do so as well.
And here's another thought. Every bomb or bullet Israel uses has to be replaced. We, the U.S. tax payers, are supporting those purchases and those who continue to foment war in the Middle East have no interest in that relationship changing. Follow the money to the contractors who will rebuild the West Bank and those who supply the weaponry to destroy it.
And here's another thought. Every bomb or bullet Israel uses has to be replaced. We, the U.S. tax payers, are supporting those purchases and those who continue to foment war in the Middle East have no interest in that relationship changing. Follow the money to the contractors who will rebuild the West Bank and those who supply the weaponry to destroy it.
9
Israel does not need more help.Its nuclear arsenal is larger than the UK and unchallenged by other a Middle East countries.
It's conventional forces outnumber and out muscle all surrounding countries.
It even exports military hardware to other countries principally India which must delight Pakistan.
Our underwriting of their military budget enables them to fund universal health care and abortion , this at a time when their Republican subjects want to defund Planned Parenthood and is prepared to close our Government.
I wonder if Cruz , Huckabee et al see the irony of this
It's conventional forces outnumber and out muscle all surrounding countries.
It even exports military hardware to other countries principally India which must delight Pakistan.
Our underwriting of their military budget enables them to fund universal health care and abortion , this at a time when their Republican subjects want to defund Planned Parenthood and is prepared to close our Government.
I wonder if Cruz , Huckabee et al see the irony of this
11
I am tired of the holier than thou attitude of the US Congress. What right do we have to preach? We have started wars, armed rebels, used our air force to bomb countries and so on. We sell, or give away, arms to many countries and contribute to all the conflict in the region. Our war of choice in Iraq has caused chaos and conflict though out the region and we preach to Iran. How is their support for their proxies any different than our support for our proxies? The congress acts as if freeing up Iran's assets in the US is giving them blood money from the US Treasury. What right did we have to seize their money to start with? Did I miss us declaring war on them? If were not at war, what pretense did we use to seize their assets? It seems to be that we are the big bully on the block and I wish we would stop already. If Iran needs to be dealt with in the Middle East then let the countries in the Middle East band together through agreements and treaties and do something about it.
7
For ever so long, I have wondered what it is that the US owes Israel. One can say that we have a "special" relationship with Israel but why is that? Israel holds nothing in particular that is special to me. How is Israel different from any other middle Eastern country or any other country for that matter? Jewish people who read these sentiments will immediately start screaming "anti-semitism." Pure crap. The noise of a little boy who is not getting his way. Jewish politicians seem to have death grip around the throat of the American government and I, for one, would like to see that end.
24
America absolutely does not have a responsibility to ensure the security of Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States. Our willingness to ensure the security of any foreign state must be conditioned upon good behavior by those states. Until the Saudis and Gulf States stop supporting and cut off their wealthy citizens gifts to radical terrorist organizations like ISIS and AQ and until they stop using Wahhabist madrassas to spread extremism throughout the Muslim world, we should not ensure their security. It makes no sense for us to continue to support nations who fund our enemies. Our Sunni allies have founded, encouraged, funded, and provided the ideology for Sunni terrorist groups from AQ to the Taliban to ISIS, who have killed far more Americans than the Shiite terrorists linked to Iran ever have. We are being played for chumps. No support or security guarantees for nations who support terrorists who kill Americans and other Westerners.
7
I really object when American Jews speak of Israel being the only democracy in the Middle East. Israel is a theocracy, and not a democracy.
I really object to American Jews that speak of Israel being the only ally that the United States has in the Middle East. Being an ally infers that there is some mutual benefit to the relationship.
There is a treaty between the USA and Israel, but this relationship is one-sided in-as-much as Israel is the only beneficiary in this relationship.
The USA has never benefited from the alliance with Israel. Israel Has benefited from the sacrificed blood of American men and women in the Gulf Wars and from the receipt of billions of USA taxpayer dollars.
The only way that Israel could benefit the U.S. would be for Israel to pack up and leave that area of the world to the occupants from whom they took the land to form the state of Israel.
I really object to American Jews that speak of Israel being the only ally that the United States has in the Middle East. Being an ally infers that there is some mutual benefit to the relationship.
There is a treaty between the USA and Israel, but this relationship is one-sided in-as-much as Israel is the only beneficiary in this relationship.
The USA has never benefited from the alliance with Israel. Israel Has benefited from the sacrificed blood of American men and women in the Gulf Wars and from the receipt of billions of USA taxpayer dollars.
The only way that Israel could benefit the U.S. would be for Israel to pack up and leave that area of the world to the occupants from whom they took the land to form the state of Israel.
18
I don't know about pack up and leave. More feasible is the acknowledgement that the creation of Israel was the second biggest political mistake of the 20th century. (The first was allowing Germany to rearm after WWI.) The way to undo the mistake is called the one state solution, not to pack up and leave.
5
Israel is no more a theocracy than is Great Britain. Both countries have official state religions, both offer freedom of worship to those of other faiths, and both integrate some aspect of tradition of their official state religion into their secular laws. Israel is a parliamentary democracy, where parties must create coalitions to form governments. That Jewish religious parties form part of those coalitions is not a mandate of law but a reality of voter participation.
1
Every American and very citizen of the world has benefited from the state of Israel in the accomplishments of the Israelis in almost every field of endeavor. Put away your flash drive, do not use any of the medical advances and so on and your life, if it continues without the Israeli medical advance will be much poorer in quality. Maybe Israel has always been pulled between freedom and the religious hierarchy and that may ever be resoled because both are needed. But the world needs Israel to advance and Israel needs protection from those states on and near her borders who continually threaten (and not just with words) to destroy her.
5
Same anti-Israel rhetoric as usual. NY Times Editorial page caters to a coterie of anti-Semites who resent the perceived wealth and influence of American Jews and to those who most bitterly oppose any friend of the U.S. in the belief that western society and values are fundamentally flawed, and that Israel, as the only proponent of those values in a highly scrutinized region, is the most fundamentally flawed. The Editorial Page also caters to those who would never accept the concept that maintaining a military advantage, backed by the regrettable but occasional use of that force to maintain credibility, can ever produce a better world than refraining from force and "hoping." (SEE, Syria, Northern Iraq, Yemen, etc, for examples.)
15
Most Jews support the Democrats, appreciate all the good done by Obama's administration (and can well imagine the misery of a McCain Palin or Romney-Ryan one) and more and more (especially the new generation) do not like the Right Wing Israeli Government and the Occupation with no end in sight. So it is incumbent on Netanyahu and his allies to explain (and not expect American Jews to do this for them) what the US is getting from this relationship and promise to stop favoring one party, the Republicans, over the other in the crudest manner. They have neither the right to do this nor any long-term interest in so doing. If they look for a moment at the clowns parading themselves in the Republican primaries and the future voters of the US who are going to be less and less inclined to take this alliance as a given (or at least end the subsidies) they need to rethink their assumptions.
14
Yes Israel is a fantastic country with fantastic people. But Bibi is making them look bad. He's a bully like Donald Trump. If they don't get rid of him Americas will lose favor with Israel.
2
I have read the editorial and all the recommended comments and I am amazed that no one has mentioned that Israel has an estimated 100 nuclear bombs,a fact mentioned by Thomas Friedman just a week or two ago in a column defending the deal with Iran. It is perhaps understandable that Israel wishes to be the only nuclear power in the region but history so far seems to indicate that is not necessarily a positive element in international politics.
7
So we may need to cut some of our home programs to provide more money for Israel? I think the American people are tired of spending our money on the Middle East problem. It is never going to go away.
17
As usually our bribed by Israel, AIPAC and Israel first Jews politicians and legislators wish as to kowtows to they Israel bosses.
Fact is that Israel do not recognise and do not feel bound by nuclear agreement signed between P5+1 and Iran.
Further on, no one country from the P5+1 will even consider to grant any compensation to Israel for signing nuclear agreement with Iran.
So, why should we, due to this signed agreement with Iran, consider to grant Israel any increase of already enormous military aid of over $ 3 billions yearly or any other favour?
Large number of Americans are wondering why we in America should care about Netanyahu, Israel or they safety? What are they to us? Are we they guardians or protectors? Why we should not have with them relations as we have with any other country in the World. If we give them any aid, it should be on the same bases as we give aid to any other country in the World. In another word: We shouldn't be obsessed with Israel, Netanyahu and Jews in general and kowtows to them. We should treat them as we treaty anybody else in the World, and all our problems with Israel, Netanyahu and Jews will disappear and soon we shall forget that they even exist.
Fact is that Israel do not recognise and do not feel bound by nuclear agreement signed between P5+1 and Iran.
Further on, no one country from the P5+1 will even consider to grant any compensation to Israel for signing nuclear agreement with Iran.
So, why should we, due to this signed agreement with Iran, consider to grant Israel any increase of already enormous military aid of over $ 3 billions yearly or any other favour?
Large number of Americans are wondering why we in America should care about Netanyahu, Israel or they safety? What are they to us? Are we they guardians or protectors? Why we should not have with them relations as we have with any other country in the World. If we give them any aid, it should be on the same bases as we give aid to any other country in the World. In another word: We shouldn't be obsessed with Israel, Netanyahu and Jews in general and kowtows to them. We should treat them as we treaty anybody else in the World, and all our problems with Israel, Netanyahu and Jews will disappear and soon we shall forget that they even exist.
13
I support Israel- always have. But they are a separate country, no matter what John Boehner thinks. Enforcing the deal falls to the nations that negotiated and signed on to it. Seems simple to me.
Politics should stop at the water's edge- but something about President Obama makes Republicans reject that good advice. Hmmm, wonder what that is.
Providing Netanyahu the means of attacking Iran seems foolish. We have made our position clear about Iran getting a nuclear weapon. That needs to be enough. A Republican controlled Congress sabotaging the agreement just destroys our credibility in the world, and will likely lead to chaos. Maybe that's what they want. I hope not.
Politics should stop at the water's edge- but something about President Obama makes Republicans reject that good advice. Hmmm, wonder what that is.
Providing Netanyahu the means of attacking Iran seems foolish. We have made our position clear about Iran getting a nuclear weapon. That needs to be enough. A Republican controlled Congress sabotaging the agreement just destroys our credibility in the world, and will likely lead to chaos. Maybe that's what they want. I hope not.
13
People are afraid of the wrong things. Instead of fearing not doing enough for Israel....why not fear not doing enough for America?
15
Wow, the venom being spat by so many commenters against Israel is very disturbing - I even saw one use the words "final solution" with no irony. Such anger does not derive, my friends, from a political disagreement about foreign aid (do any of these George Kennans understand how small a fraction the aid numbers are), rather it is their deep seated anti-semitism as alive and rabid as it has ever been that lies behind their invective. Singling out Israel or Netanyahu as the worst actors in the region without considering the pure evil of many of the other players is complete intellectual corruption and invalidates any arguments that follow. The US supports Israel with weapons as it always has supported allies of the US, for the interests of US period, as it should be. Why people continue to blame Israel for the mess of the middle east is hard to comprehend until you look at the real roots of their anger and hatred.
16
Antisemitism in America is at its lowest level in history......while criticism of Israel is at its highest level since 1948.
Accusing critics of Israel of antisemitism is a now discredited Aipac and Zionist ploy that will no longer work.
It's time to concentrate on what's best for America first!
Accusing critics of Israel of antisemitism is a now discredited Aipac and Zionist ploy that will no longer work.
It's time to concentrate on what's best for America first!
8
Your editorial board summation of the Iran deal is your continual anti-Israel opinions over the past few years. The basic question is 'Can Iran be trusted?' and history has shown that the answer is NO. They will continue to support Hizballah, Hamas and every terrorist organization around the world and not one American inspector will be allowed into their facilities. Now you also say that our country should not arm Israel with MOP since it would be provocative. Is it provocative for the highest person in Iran to continually call for Israel's destruction and to arm its enemies? I have read the Times since it was founded and I am now simply ashamed of your newspaper.
14
I agree.
I can't tell which emotion prevails here and in Israel, paranoia, or hatred and anger.
There certainly is not enough dignity or respect.
I can't tell which emotion prevails here and in Israel, paranoia, or hatred and anger.
There certainly is not enough dignity or respect.
1
Israel fails to negotiate peace with the Palestinians? Ariel Sharon and Bill Clinton negotiated a deal with Yassar Arafat and the PLO that gave the Palestinians everything they had been asking for. The PLO rejected it
12
What probably galls Israel most about the Iran deal is not so much Iran's current or future military strength, but the fact that Israel [8 mill.], even though it will continue to be militarily superior, will no longer be viewed as exceptional in the overall political structure of the Middle East. The US will continue to be Israel's strongest supporter, but will now factor in the increased role of Iran [80 mill.] in solving, if that is ever possible, the difficult political and social issues in that part of the world.
3
IT is high time to review our relationship we Israel. A country which interfered directly in our choice for President and paid for the " Blood on your Hands" TV spots aimed at any member of Congress who would dare to vote for the accord with Iran. Enough is enough!! Time to cut back the billions we send to Israel every year. Israel is a nuclear power and not some poor country unable to defend itself. The long free ride is over, Mr. Netanyahu. I for one have had enough of Mr Netanyahu and his interference in our politics.
14
The one overriding lesson I've learned in 70 years as an American citizen is that I can never count on the American government to think of the wellbeing of Americans first and foremost over the wishes of special interests and foreign allies.
10
President Obama, in order to secure approval of the vital Iran nuclear control agreement, accepted the Republican-sponsored resolution for a straight up-or-down vote. By securing enough Democratic votes, the Obama administration won that legislative battle without even having to go through the veto process.
Now, Republicans want to jettison the very process they created. They also wish to sabotage the Iran agreement. The Republican approach is so foolish and so detrimental to the best interests of the United States, President Obama would do better to proceed in the region under existing legislation regarding military steps allowed to the Executive Branch without prior consultation with Congress.
Hopefully, such military action will not be necessary against Iran, because the assistance of Iran is necessary to defeat the ISIS forces and those of al-Qaeda in and around Syria. If such action against Iranian proxies like Hezbollah comes under consideration, President Obama cannot be forced to act prematurely simply because the Republicans and their leader, Benjamin Netanyahu, demand it. Similarly, the President also cannot wait for Congressional approval if the situation requires that he act quickly.
Now, Republicans want to jettison the very process they created. They also wish to sabotage the Iran agreement. The Republican approach is so foolish and so detrimental to the best interests of the United States, President Obama would do better to proceed in the region under existing legislation regarding military steps allowed to the Executive Branch without prior consultation with Congress.
Hopefully, such military action will not be necessary against Iran, because the assistance of Iran is necessary to defeat the ISIS forces and those of al-Qaeda in and around Syria. If such action against Iranian proxies like Hezbollah comes under consideration, President Obama cannot be forced to act prematurely simply because the Republicans and their leader, Benjamin Netanyahu, demand it. Similarly, the President also cannot wait for Congressional approval if the situation requires that he act quickly.
2
As I have stated before, Israel is not the 51st state of our union and it's time we let it (and Mr. Netanyahu) understand that. Enough is enough. Israel never shows gratitude for the massive funds it has received for decades, but rather demands more. Moreover, Israel has not contributed one dime or one troop to support our military actions in that area of the world, those actions primarily taken for Israel's welfare and security.
10
An alliance is generally based on mutual objectives, mutual support and consideration of each party for the other. The leadership of Israel has objectives that differ substantially from those of the US and has provided the US with no support of consideration. In fact, Israel has frequently acted against the interests of the US and the current leader has disrespected our president.
I don't see any benefit in the US for this "alliance".
I don't see any benefit in the US for this "alliance".
9
I think Congress should specify which programs are being cut in order to pay for ever more aid to Israel, a bellicose state who is seen by most of the world as the number one threat to peace and stability in the region. Why the U.S. taxpayer should sacrifice at home for the sake of ever more weapons to use against their neighbors can only be fathomed via an understanding the deep power of AIPAC and supporters. Even when they lose on Iran, they somehow win. Disgusting and shameful.
8
How about not giving any rewards to Israel for meddling quiet directly into our politics. We would not tolerate such open and clear intervention by China, Germany, UK, France, Japan, etc ....
Maybe it it time to let Israel know that the US is the superpower and they are the client state. If they don't like it, they should go it alone with all its consequences.
Maybe it it time to let Israel know that the US is the superpower and they are the client state. If they don't like it, they should go it alone with all its consequences.
12
This is exactly the reason why the Obama argument of we either pass his agreement with Iran or we go to war is bogus. We will go to war either way for the simple fact that if Israel feels threatened they will come out blasting at Iran and we will get dragged into it no matter what anyone says. Furthermore, Israel has every right to feel threatened when the United States did an idiotic thing by letting Iran get ballistic missiles from Russia as part of this deal. That Iron Dome system they have and we helped supply to Israel works OK on SCUD type missiles, but may be ineffective against multiple re-entry MIRV type ballistic missiles and warheads the Russians will sell to Iran, thanks to one of the Obama side deals with Iran.
5
Netanyahu is not behind current Israeli-American tension. Netanyahu is not behind anything. It's Sheldon Adleson. Bibi betrayed his own country when following Sheldon's orders to play a role in partisan politics in the in the United States. And what did it get him? What did it get Israel? The Israeli public must see this by now.
4
The U.S. and, to a lesser extent, the UK, have been arming all sides in the Mideast to a standstill for generations. Now, in order to establish a modicum of order with Iran, we are dumping more money and materiel into the region -- all in the name of deescalating the conflict. Somehow, we must be able to stand up, look everyone in the eye and say, "Stop this, now!"
3
PEACE IN OUR TIME?
Doesn't everybody realize that President Obama has achieved “Peace In Our Time?”
But only for the next ten years and then he has agreed that Iran can build as many nuclear weapons as it wants in accordance with this agreement!
Iran does not have intercontinental ballistic missile delivery systems, but they can afford to rent a van for a suicide bomber instead!
This treaty is a great diplomatic victory for the Obama Administration!
The USA, France, Germany, England, China and Russia did all get together and then all agreed in essence to "Give away everything Iran wants in return for a ten year pause before Iran is allowed to have nuclear weapons with the capability to destroy the USA!"
The US agrees to release Iran from Iran’s treaty obligations under the existing non-nuclear-proliferation treaty that Iran previously signed!
The US agrees to lift trade sanctions against Iran that were implemented against Iran for Iran’s capture of the US embassy in Iran and Iran's failure to comply with Iran’s obligations that Iran agreed to comply with as a part of the previous non-nuclear-proliferation agreement that Iran signed!
This will give Iran the economic capability to arm and finance many more religious fanatics around the world. How will the USA ever deal with a bunch of nuclear armed religious fanatics?
The US agrees to Iran having Nuclear Weapons ten years after this treaty is agreed and ratified by all of the governmental parties to this agreement!
Doesn't everybody realize that President Obama has achieved “Peace In Our Time?”
But only for the next ten years and then he has agreed that Iran can build as many nuclear weapons as it wants in accordance with this agreement!
Iran does not have intercontinental ballistic missile delivery systems, but they can afford to rent a van for a suicide bomber instead!
This treaty is a great diplomatic victory for the Obama Administration!
The USA, France, Germany, England, China and Russia did all get together and then all agreed in essence to "Give away everything Iran wants in return for a ten year pause before Iran is allowed to have nuclear weapons with the capability to destroy the USA!"
The US agrees to release Iran from Iran’s treaty obligations under the existing non-nuclear-proliferation treaty that Iran previously signed!
The US agrees to lift trade sanctions against Iran that were implemented against Iran for Iran’s capture of the US embassy in Iran and Iran's failure to comply with Iran’s obligations that Iran agreed to comply with as a part of the previous non-nuclear-proliferation agreement that Iran signed!
This will give Iran the economic capability to arm and finance many more religious fanatics around the world. How will the USA ever deal with a bunch of nuclear armed religious fanatics?
The US agrees to Iran having Nuclear Weapons ten years after this treaty is agreed and ratified by all of the governmental parties to this agreement!
3
Just as any country with limited resources, a threat like no other nation in the world who has a bulls-eye on it would act as Israel has done in regards to America. Its time for Israel to understand that they cannot depend on America,for financial help, military, or energy.They need to look at the world as they have started to India, China, Russia who love the technology coming out of the Start-Up Nation as Israel is know throughout the tech world. People need to ask for instance the pilots flying through out the Middle East where its quite easy to get a hold of a shoulder fired anti-aircraft missile how much they enjoy the counter measures invented by Israel.Or the American weapons manufactures who Israel returns a large part of the money to America given to it to help keep them afloat. Or the Syrian's blown to bits who are put back together by Israeli Doctors and Nurses in the hospital in Nahariya. Only about 1.2 million of the world’s 400 million ethnic Arabs live in Israel, yet the sole registry for Arab bone marrow donors is located in Jerusalem, at Hadassah Hospital. Or a country if the people in California wanted to listen to, would remove the threat of drought as they have done in the exact same climate conditions with its vast limited resources. No one is saying that Israel is the Garden of Eden, but they always continue to try to make a better world,even with the threats daily to their very existence.
4
(With due apologies to the Corps,) tell it to a Marine.
1
Just as negotiations are the crucial first step, a clear statement of the consequences of violation are a crucial next step. Iran has cheated before and has escaped without significant consequence. Part of meaningful agreements are clear statements of the consequences of violation of those agreements. Should Iran be caught again cheating, it will strengthen the President's hand to know the Congress will support him should war be deemed the appropriate response.This is not a threat, but a clear statement of consequences so no one is surprised or in doubt.
1
What do you mean by the way cheating, it is a dictatorship country, dictators doesn't cheat , they do what ever they want? have ever heard of Hitler.
We as a democratic world cannot live with Dictators terms, they must obey us, Iran deal means that. when you exclude them with severe sanctions , in fact you are granting them living in a no mans land.
We as a democratic world cannot live with Dictators terms, they must obey us, Iran deal means that. when you exclude them with severe sanctions , in fact you are granting them living in a no mans land.
1
Israel has around 200 nukes and won't even sign the international non-proliferation agreements that the US, Iran and much of the rest of the world have signed on to. Unlike Iran which hasn't attacked another country in hundreds of years, Israel routinely invades and bombs its neighbors under the impunity provided by its nuclear umbrella and US sponsorship. If there is a country that needs to hear that forceful action will be taken if it misbehaves, it is Israel.
1
We don't need to reassure the Israelis about anything. They are beholden to the US for their very existence. They need to shed their arrogant extremism and find a solution to the Palestinian/Israeli problem. A good start would be to negotiate with both the Palestinian Authority and Hamas. To encourage a Palestinian government of all parties, and to end the illegal settlements and the Ghettoization of Gaza.
We should be threatening Israel with a loss of the billions of dollars we give them unless they stop their efforts to expel the Palestinians from the land they have lived on for thousands of years.
We should be threatening Israel with a loss of the billions of dollars we give them unless they stop their efforts to expel the Palestinians from the land they have lived on for thousands of years.
28
You don't seem all that intelligent, and most of your post is lying nonsense, but I laughed at how you claim that Israel cannot exist without the US. Not sure what planet you live on, but it is not earth.
2
Bibi and Putin are the biggest egomaniacs in the world. Both despise Obama. Why is America so beholden to Israel? Even AIPAC doesn't explain the situation. Why not just declare Israel our 51st State and get it over with!
8
Israel would never agree to becoming our 51st state. While it now enjoys representation without taxation, in becoming a US state if would have to pay taxes for that privilege. Not tradition! As we have seen for six decades, money is intended to flow only from the US to Israel, never the reverse.
2
You haven't heard of Mr. Trump? He has practically cornered the market on egomania.
How well can much cooperation, with an insecure politician like Netanyahu, end? [Insecure because a shaky, Rube Goldberg coalition makes him PM). Even if his backers were more secure, Israel's motives may still not align with the US's.
And how well can our deal with Iran end? The mullahs who now have power, need a bunch of thugs to keep it. That's hardly secure either.
Permutations of all that can go wrong have greatly multiplied.
Potential for a Middle East armageddon to begin sth. like WWIII has also swollen.
Despite an unearned self-image as competent global settler of all disputes, the US would be smart to greatly lessen involvement in this region. Then if a rumble broke out it would stay among soon exhausted Muslim states. Many of them rely on the US for arms and supply. Others rely increasingly on Russia. If secular Russia's faction won, how long would Russia's heavy hand be tolerated? And after seeing that war had done no good and that honor from jihad was not so great either, most Muslims should reject rulers who claim to have God's ear.
And how well can our deal with Iran end? The mullahs who now have power, need a bunch of thugs to keep it. That's hardly secure either.
Permutations of all that can go wrong have greatly multiplied.
Potential for a Middle East armageddon to begin sth. like WWIII has also swollen.
Despite an unearned self-image as competent global settler of all disputes, the US would be smart to greatly lessen involvement in this region. Then if a rumble broke out it would stay among soon exhausted Muslim states. Many of them rely on the US for arms and supply. Others rely increasingly on Russia. If secular Russia's faction won, how long would Russia's heavy hand be tolerated? And after seeing that war had done no good and that honor from jihad was not so great either, most Muslims should reject rulers who claim to have God's ear.
5
The top ten comments here very clearly say the same thing: stop destroying what is left of the Middle East by appeasing and also arming one party to the teeth. But powers that be, don't read these comments, nor the media that twist policies as needed. The final solution will be reached in about thirty to forty years when everyone in the ME starts going back to riding camels, and the oil-based extensive building done by South Asian sweat labor would be swallowed by the desert.
5
Or the Middle East will look like the "Trinity" atomic test site!
1
Enough is enough. US military support for Israel is astronomical and contributes to its pugnacity in regional and world affairs. Why such fear of trusting Iran with international detection mechanisms in place? One senses both the US and Israel hope Iran will cheat, giving pretext for a ferocious attack. The US has so thoroughly meddled in the Middle East as to be a prime cause of al Qaeda and ISIS. America shall never learn.
21
Republicans aren't really against the Iran nuclear deal. What they're against is any success by the president. This deal puts another feather in Obama's cap, already adorned with major successes.
As it stands Obama's going to go down as one of the greatest presidents of all time. But maybe his greatest accomplishment will be the destruction of the Republican Party.
The Republicans hated him so much they were beside themselves and unable to control their anger. They showed themselves to be small minded, bitter, frivolous, and bigoted.
And now the last vestiges of their mean-spirited core group calls the shots. Now they are outside the mainstream dooming them for years to come. Maybe Obama's greatest accomplishment.
As it stands Obama's going to go down as one of the greatest presidents of all time. But maybe his greatest accomplishment will be the destruction of the Republican Party.
The Republicans hated him so much they were beside themselves and unable to control their anger. They showed themselves to be small minded, bitter, frivolous, and bigoted.
And now the last vestiges of their mean-spirited core group calls the shots. Now they are outside the mainstream dooming them for years to come. Maybe Obama's greatest accomplishment.
11
Why do the Republicans "hate" him?
What I see is, Republicans refuse to vote with Democrats as well as Democrats refuse to vote with Republicans, even though it may or may not be good for the American people.
What I see is, Republicans refuse to vote with Democrats as well as Democrats refuse to vote with Republicans, even though it may or may not be good for the American people.
In order for there to be peace in the Middle East there needs to be realism. The Israeli Palestinian situation is a side show and the settlements are largely irrelevant to a deal between Israel and Palestinians. The United States has to get Netanyahu to set aside what is politically expedient for him and realize that in the future Israel will have to govern too many Arabs and weapons will developed for which land will not provide a defense.
Right now there is a defacto alliance between Israel, Egypt and the Gulf States. President Obama needs to see ways to get all these countries to want to make peace with the Shiites, particularly Iran and not allow the silliness of the anti-Israeli crowd get in the way.
Right now there is a defacto alliance between Israel, Egypt and the Gulf States. President Obama needs to see ways to get all these countries to want to make peace with the Shiites, particularly Iran and not allow the silliness of the anti-Israeli crowd get in the way.
1
Our biggest problem is not Iran. It is Israel, its monetary expectations and intimidation of our politicians to put Israeli interests over what is best for the United States while refusing to adhere to international law and end it's cruel occupation of the Palestinians.
30
It is a mark of the influence of Jews who are generous in their campaign donations that the President and Congress feel a need to genuflect when the subject of Israel comes up. Israel has been poking America in the eye for decades but we keep turning the other cheek. Perhaps Republicans with their Christian Evangelicals fixated on the Rapture feel the need to play to Israel leaders but I don't understand any reason to give them MORE than we've given so generously in the past… unless politicians want to remain on the good side of Jewish campaign contributors.
I'd love Israel to thrive and I'd love for Israeli leaders to begin dealing honestly with the millions of Palestinians inside and outside the country who have legitimate rights that are being consistently and aggressively undermined by Israeli policies and behavior. We say that is what we want, but we seem incapable of making financial and military support contingent on changes in Israeli policies. No change… no money… makes sense to me. But Israel just keeps poking a stick in our eye and we keep making excuses for them. Those campaign contributions are pretty sweet I guess.
I'd love Israel to thrive and I'd love for Israeli leaders to begin dealing honestly with the millions of Palestinians inside and outside the country who have legitimate rights that are being consistently and aggressively undermined by Israeli policies and behavior. We say that is what we want, but we seem incapable of making financial and military support contingent on changes in Israeli policies. No change… no money… makes sense to me. But Israel just keeps poking a stick in our eye and we keep making excuses for them. Those campaign contributions are pretty sweet I guess.
15
We are at the 100th anniversary of when TE Lawrence, acting as a British guerrilla warfare advisor, led the Arabs in revolt against the dying Ottoman Empire. The Mideast struggles still with the unresolved consequences of that dubious victory. Iraq, Saudi Arabia, non-Arab Iran, Egypt, Libya, and the UAE, all became mini Ottoman-style empires with Euro-American encouragement. All for the sake of oil, of course. Trust and cooperation among these tribal nations was rare. Upon its creation, Israel became the greatest symbol of the Arab dictum, “The enemy of my enemy is my friend” and we have seen where 70 years of that kind of outlook will get you—nowhere.
The Mideast created along the artificial boundaries of the Treaty of Versailles (according to the wishes of Europe’s colonial powers) is, after 100 years, disintegrating. We’re back where we started, with the addition of Israel to the mix. What will be the outcome this time? No one it seems has answers beyond greater and greater armaments. That pursuit was the prelude to WWI. It horrors were enough for it to be proclaimed “The war to end all wars.” That of course never happened and we seem poised to disprove it yet again. This in spite of our latest efforts to obstruct a destructive yet rising Mideast power from obtaining the most destructive armament of all.
The Mideast created along the artificial boundaries of the Treaty of Versailles (according to the wishes of Europe’s colonial powers) is, after 100 years, disintegrating. We’re back where we started, with the addition of Israel to the mix. What will be the outcome this time? No one it seems has answers beyond greater and greater armaments. That pursuit was the prelude to WWI. It horrors were enough for it to be proclaimed “The war to end all wars.” That of course never happened and we seem poised to disprove it yet again. This in spite of our latest efforts to obstruct a destructive yet rising Mideast power from obtaining the most destructive armament of all.
2
Where were you when it came to achieving a deal that truly could be felt to protect Israel and other Mideast countries, not the problematic result of the
fiasco that's just taken place? Sure Netanyahu was mistaken in the way
he politicized the issue. Yet by far so were we by letting Iran outpace and outflank us on practically every issue Obama himself had stated were his own
red lines. As Tom Friedman said, we negotiated with an empty holster, and that's what we got as a result... instead of a trustworthy agreement, even more damage control.
fiasco that's just taken place? Sure Netanyahu was mistaken in the way
he politicized the issue. Yet by far so were we by letting Iran outpace and outflank us on practically every issue Obama himself had stated were his own
red lines. As Tom Friedman said, we negotiated with an empty holster, and that's what we got as a result... instead of a trustworthy agreement, even more damage control.
5
Nothing seems more dangerous to our national security than jacked up Republicans. Even the ones opposed to their leader in the polls, Trump, seem to share his reckless penchant for distortion in order to serve their own goals - often the goals really of their lobbyist overlords.
10
What a difference watching the Pope, a man of peace and compassion as opposed to watching Netanyahu, a man of hate, intolerance and war. It's time to cut the cord with Israel.
30
And how would you characterize Hamas , who calls for the destruction of Israel? Your willful ignorance is absolutely frightful.
2
Many of your responders feel Israel is unworthy of US support, financial or political. Some even suggest thst Israel has acted against US interests. Israel has alays been the canary in the coalmine vis a vis the US. All the terror Israel has suffered has been & is currently being visited on US soil. The NYT accuses Israel of not willing to negotiate with the Palestinians. When in the last 75 years have Palestinians negotiated in good faith with Israel? The goal of radical Islam is the elimination of Israel. Once that is accomplished the US is their next target. Only history will judge the Iran nuclear deal. In the meantime it would be prudent for the US to support its true friends and let those who chant "death to america" know that they are on the wrong side of history.
11
This editorial says Mr. Obama has repeatedly promised he would not let Iran obtain a nuclear weapon and is prepared to use force if needed." And how many times did Mr. Obama say that if "you like your doctor you could keep our doctor and if you liked your healthcare plan you could keep our healthcare plan". Obama is capable of understanding the difference between telling the truth and lying so therefore he is an outright liar. Liar, liar pants on fire.
Let's hope it is not a nuclear fire!
Let's hope it is not a nuclear fire!
4
I disagree that recent events have harmed the US - Iseael relationship. They are more in the nature of a spat between friends - a lovers quarrel if you will. The solid ties remain.
4
The tail is wagging the dog!
Israel harboring criminal fugitives, including murderers from Houston and wall street master business criminals from the US justice system is also very disgraceful.
Israel always wants more US taxpayer funds.
The Israeli lobby has no peer and it has turned the legislative branch of the US government into what former US Senator Jim Abourezk once called Israeli-occupied territory.
Thanks to U.S. Jewish lobby political campaign contributions, the U.S. always does bail out Israel with the blood of US military service people and with U. S. taxpayer's money.
Because of AIPAC and other Israeli lobbyists in this country, US Middle East policy is Israel oriented.
A post-9/11 chilling conjuncture has occurred in which the Israeli lobby, the Christian Right, and the Bush administration's semi-religious belligerency was theoretically committed to the destruction of Israel's enemies. This is given the label of bringing regime change and "democracy" to the Arab countries who most threaten Israel.
If Israel had not been created by taking a part of Palestine right after WWII, there would be peace in that area of the World today!
Israel harboring criminal fugitives, including murderers from Houston and wall street master business criminals from the US justice system is also very disgraceful.
Israel always wants more US taxpayer funds.
The Israeli lobby has no peer and it has turned the legislative branch of the US government into what former US Senator Jim Abourezk once called Israeli-occupied territory.
Thanks to U.S. Jewish lobby political campaign contributions, the U.S. always does bail out Israel with the blood of US military service people and with U. S. taxpayer's money.
Because of AIPAC and other Israeli lobbyists in this country, US Middle East policy is Israel oriented.
A post-9/11 chilling conjuncture has occurred in which the Israeli lobby, the Christian Right, and the Bush administration's semi-religious belligerency was theoretically committed to the destruction of Israel's enemies. This is given the label of bringing regime change and "democracy" to the Arab countries who most threaten Israel.
If Israel had not been created by taking a part of Palestine right after WWII, there would be peace in that area of the World today!
18
No.
There has never been peace in the area and there never will be peace. It's part of local history and custom. If by magic Israel were to disappear tomorrow, the Arabs would be fighting with each other, as they are, even now.
Here in the USA, and perhaps in places such as Europe, we have a concept of nation states. By and large, in the Middle East where there are countries that were created by Europeans along lines favorable to themselves, there is much less of the notion of a country; it is a tribal society, mainly nomadic, governed by loyalties to family and tribe.
The mental scale is so different perhaps no rapprochment is possible.
There has never been peace in the area and there never will be peace. It's part of local history and custom. If by magic Israel were to disappear tomorrow, the Arabs would be fighting with each other, as they are, even now.
Here in the USA, and perhaps in places such as Europe, we have a concept of nation states. By and large, in the Middle East where there are countries that were created by Europeans along lines favorable to themselves, there is much less of the notion of a country; it is a tribal society, mainly nomadic, governed by loyalties to family and tribe.
The mental scale is so different perhaps no rapprochment is possible.
1
"America has a responsibility to help ensure the security of Israel..." How about if we put America's interest ahead of Israel's for once? It's astounding that we somehow have to provide to Israel when they thumb their nose at us at every turn. Through continued expansion of settlements and mistreatment of the residents of the occupied territories, Israel never seems to understand its role in inflaming the region nor is it willing to consider the criticism of the international community. Such a hardline attitude will never help Israel win the security and peace it so desperately seeks.
27
"How about if we put America's interest ahead of Israel's for once?"
How about recognizing that America's and Israel's interest often coincide or overlap?
How about recognizing that America's and Israel's interest often coincide or overlap?
1
If this is such a good deal, then why do we need to arm our allies to the teeth in the first place? Israel does not need nor do they want want the MOP. Having such a weapon would require them to have heavy bombers, which they do not have, nor do they have runways to accommodate.
In your second to last paragraph, you mention that "Israel undermines stability by failing to negotiate peace with the Palestinians." It takes two to tango. Last time I checked, Israel put forth proposals backed by President Clinton to Arafat and Olmert to Abbas, both were rejected. When Secretary Kerry came around, Netanyahu accepted his framework, Abbas rejected it. Zero counter proposals have come from the PA. I feel your sentence is biased in favor of the Palestinians, who have perpetuated the status quo.
In your second to last paragraph, you mention that "Israel undermines stability by failing to negotiate peace with the Palestinians." It takes two to tango. Last time I checked, Israel put forth proposals backed by President Clinton to Arafat and Olmert to Abbas, both were rejected. When Secretary Kerry came around, Netanyahu accepted his framework, Abbas rejected it. Zero counter proposals have come from the PA. I feel your sentence is biased in favor of the Palestinians, who have perpetuated the status quo.
9
A true test of one's commitment to an Israeli-Palestinian settlement is whether they are willing to be as specific about what a peace accord will require of Palestinians as they are about what Israel will have to do. I don't hear or read too much about that these days. Wonder why?
7
It's fine to see the editorial board of the NYTimes urging increased military support for Israel. This is in light of the deal so that Iran's lesser angels will not be permitted to misuse incoming funds and prevail in the region, either through conventional means or nuclear means.
But I must take issue with two claim. In an obvious effort to seem balanced, the piece says that Saudi Arabia is to blame for much of the rise of extremist groups, which is true. The balancing act is to claim that B. Netanyahu has failed to negotiate with the Palestinians. This is simply untrue. The Israeli government has several times entered into negotiations with the Palestinians. They fell apart through Palestinian intransigence. The Israelis are always seeking means to negotiate with both Fatah and with Hamas, but usually run up against a brick wall.
Further, to say that the Israel-US relationship was put at risk because of the Republicans and Bibi who "polarized the debate over the Iran deal," is simply a false analysis. I recommend that the Times editorial board have a look at Michael Oren's book, Ally, to see how destructive President Obama has been to the US-Israel relationship. If inviting Bibi to speak to Congress caused any damage (and I am doubtful), then this was merely icing on the cake.
But I must take issue with two claim. In an obvious effort to seem balanced, the piece says that Saudi Arabia is to blame for much of the rise of extremist groups, which is true. The balancing act is to claim that B. Netanyahu has failed to negotiate with the Palestinians. This is simply untrue. The Israeli government has several times entered into negotiations with the Palestinians. They fell apart through Palestinian intransigence. The Israelis are always seeking means to negotiate with both Fatah and with Hamas, but usually run up against a brick wall.
Further, to say that the Israel-US relationship was put at risk because of the Republicans and Bibi who "polarized the debate over the Iran deal," is simply a false analysis. I recommend that the Times editorial board have a look at Michael Oren's book, Ally, to see how destructive President Obama has been to the US-Israel relationship. If inviting Bibi to speak to Congress caused any damage (and I am doubtful), then this was merely icing on the cake.
9
What selective memories NYT readers have. Iran funds Hezbollah and terrorist groups that threaten Israel and undermine stability in the Middle East. Israel is the only democratic nation in the region with freedom of the press and fair elections for all. The Palestinians have successfully portrayed Israel as an apartheid state while ignoring their own mistreatment of Jews and Christians. The Arab states declared war on Israel in 1948 and many Palestinians fled. Those who remained are Israeli citizens and enjoy all the rights and privileges of citizens. Israel is the only dependable ally the US has in the Middle East. That's why the US gives Israel weapons and aid.
There were more Jewish refugees from Arab lands who were forcibly expelled from their countries than Palestinian refugees from Israel. Approximately 850,000 Jews were forced to leave their homelands in 10 Arab countries, significantly more than the Palestinians who fled Israel. These Jews had lived in the Arab states for 2,500 years. Although the UN recognizes these Jews as refugees, there's no hue and cry about the dispossessed Jews. They went to Israel and other countries and went on with their lives, unlike the Palestinians, who are political pawns so the Arab countries can rally their populace to hate Israel, and ignore the mistreatment of their citizens. Apartheid? Yes, gender apartheid and rampant anti-Semitism in many Arab countries. No one gets upset about that. Long live the double standard!
There were more Jewish refugees from Arab lands who were forcibly expelled from their countries than Palestinian refugees from Israel. Approximately 850,000 Jews were forced to leave their homelands in 10 Arab countries, significantly more than the Palestinians who fled Israel. These Jews had lived in the Arab states for 2,500 years. Although the UN recognizes these Jews as refugees, there's no hue and cry about the dispossessed Jews. They went to Israel and other countries and went on with their lives, unlike the Palestinians, who are political pawns so the Arab countries can rally their populace to hate Israel, and ignore the mistreatment of their citizens. Apartheid? Yes, gender apartheid and rampant anti-Semitism in many Arab countries. No one gets upset about that. Long live the double standard!
13
"...no one gets upset..." *sigh* Hyperbole and misrepresentation really accomplish nothing.
2
Plus apartheid towards those of Palestinian descent. Third generation born Saudis, Lebanese etc of Palestinian heritage are not refugees. They are natives, excluded because of heritage. Like Roma in Europe.
This is a result of Arab sectarianism that saw 500,000 of Palestinian descent expelled from Kuwait during the Gulf War. It is why there are 900,000 people living in Qatar but only 300,000 are citizens.
Mischaracterizing the Palestinians "refugee" problem will have dire consequences now that you have millions of new refugees in the Middle East. They are not going home and will also continue to be refugees for generations.
Google George Deek, an Israeli diplomat in Oslo and see his speech. He discusses the millions of refugees, Muslims included, in the 20th and 21st century and how the Palestinian "refugee" problem is a hoax. George is an Arab whose family fled in 1948 from Jaffa and returned.
This is a result of Arab sectarianism that saw 500,000 of Palestinian descent expelled from Kuwait during the Gulf War. It is why there are 900,000 people living in Qatar but only 300,000 are citizens.
Mischaracterizing the Palestinians "refugee" problem will have dire consequences now that you have millions of new refugees in the Middle East. They are not going home and will also continue to be refugees for generations.
Google George Deek, an Israeli diplomat in Oslo and see his speech. He discusses the millions of refugees, Muslims included, in the 20th and 21st century and how the Palestinian "refugee" problem is a hoax. George is an Arab whose family fled in 1948 from Jaffa and returned.
1
I believe no body really defend any more Sunni Arab political view anymore , If they have single shred of human dignity.
The question is Why Israel is trying find a way to reconcile with Iran , Iran as a culture way more civilized and open minded than which Israel believes that behind curtain Allies ( Wahhabi's Saudi and emirates)
The question is Why Israel is trying find a way to reconcile with Iran , Iran as a culture way more civilized and open minded than which Israel believes that behind curtain Allies ( Wahhabi's Saudi and emirates)
Honestly, billions of dollars of military aid to Israel? A country that could defend itself 10 time over? Meanwhile, we have 1/6 of this nation living in poverty?
As fro US/Israeli relations, they should be subject to Israel moving to the center. Right now, they are no different than Iran or Saudi Arabia. Fundamentalist, non-inclusive, religious states. This is teh danger of theocracies.
Israel, at one time, was the hope of all Jews; the fundamentalist parties have turned it into a nation only for Orthodox Jews. This alone should have our politicians thinking of what they are supporting. Israel is no longer a Democracy. It may be on paper, but, in practice, it no longer is.
In the end, the current government of Israel is no different than their enemies. Israel doe snot want peace; that is given. The US shoudl not be helping it push their own agenda.
As fro US/Israeli relations, they should be subject to Israel moving to the center. Right now, they are no different than Iran or Saudi Arabia. Fundamentalist, non-inclusive, religious states. This is teh danger of theocracies.
Israel, at one time, was the hope of all Jews; the fundamentalist parties have turned it into a nation only for Orthodox Jews. This alone should have our politicians thinking of what they are supporting. Israel is no longer a Democracy. It may be on paper, but, in practice, it no longer is.
In the end, the current government of Israel is no different than their enemies. Israel doe snot want peace; that is given. The US shoudl not be helping it push their own agenda.
19
Ever since Israel was "created" out of nothing it has created instability in the Middle East.
It's very existence begets terrorism and is based upon religious fanaticism which is based upon ancient texts of the bible.
Why this was allowed to happen stems from world guilt of the holocaust.
It seems that the existence of Israel depends upon fear and hatred. So, they get nuclear weapons but no other nation does. They get arms and money from the US to prop up their very tenuous manufactured "nation".
Until Israel stops it's fear and hatred based existence and genuinely attempts to accommodate the peoples whose land they just invaded and took over, and bombs and destroys at will with no consequences, it must be considered the original terrorist state.
It's very existence begets terrorism and is based upon religious fanaticism which is based upon ancient texts of the bible.
Why this was allowed to happen stems from world guilt of the holocaust.
It seems that the existence of Israel depends upon fear and hatred. So, they get nuclear weapons but no other nation does. They get arms and money from the US to prop up their very tenuous manufactured "nation".
Until Israel stops it's fear and hatred based existence and genuinely attempts to accommodate the peoples whose land they just invaded and took over, and bombs and destroys at will with no consequences, it must be considered the original terrorist state.
27
By this logic the USA should be given back to the Native Americans. All the other people displaced by 1940's BRITISH PARTITIONS have moved on with the lives.
1
Israel's existence is based on a historical right to the land, the Treaty of San Remo, the League of Nation's Mandate, a successful war of independence and recognition.
If any country was built out of "nothing" and has caused worldwide instability, it is the United States.
If any country was built out of "nothing" and has caused worldwide instability, it is the United States.
Good point. But the slaughter of native Americans and taking their land should not be used as an excuse for Israel's behavior. Two wrongs don't make a right.
You say, "America has a responsibility to help ensure the security of Israel ...."
What exactly is Israel's responsibility?
Israelis have continued to support Netanyahu who never misses an opportunity to tweak the President of the US, be it in his not-so-thinly-veiled support of Romney or his blatant courting of the Republicans in trying to scuttle the Iran treaty. Netanyahu's "endorsement" of Romney or his opposition to the Iran treaty hasn't exactly worked in his and his country's favor. Netanyahu and Israel now have the responsibility to stop interfering in American elections and foreign policy and to win the President and the Democrats and America back, not the other way around.
What exactly is Israel's responsibility?
Israelis have continued to support Netanyahu who never misses an opportunity to tweak the President of the US, be it in his not-so-thinly-veiled support of Romney or his blatant courting of the Republicans in trying to scuttle the Iran treaty. Netanyahu's "endorsement" of Romney or his opposition to the Iran treaty hasn't exactly worked in his and his country's favor. Netanyahu and Israel now have the responsibility to stop interfering in American elections and foreign policy and to win the President and the Democrats and America back, not the other way around.
23
With friends like this Israeli Administration, who needs enemies?
I find Netanyahu utterly noxious. His politics. His demeanor. His endless condescension. His completely unapologetic meddling in American politics. And most of all, his unwavering commitment to Israel's version of apartheid.
He is a loud mouthed war mongering oppressor, and not much else.
The United States paid a huge political price for electing George W. Bush. So too should Israel, for continuing to hire this moribund, divisive, prognosticator of doom.
Political choices have consequences. And as long as Israel chooses this man to represent them, they deserve the consequences of that choice.
Continue to choose a war monger, and eventually you'll get the war. Just like we did with Bush / Cheney.
I find Netanyahu utterly noxious. His politics. His demeanor. His endless condescension. His completely unapologetic meddling in American politics. And most of all, his unwavering commitment to Israel's version of apartheid.
He is a loud mouthed war mongering oppressor, and not much else.
The United States paid a huge political price for electing George W. Bush. So too should Israel, for continuing to hire this moribund, divisive, prognosticator of doom.
Political choices have consequences. And as long as Israel chooses this man to represent them, they deserve the consequences of that choice.
Continue to choose a war monger, and eventually you'll get the war. Just like we did with Bush / Cheney.
35
Instead of trying to give Israel some assurance that the deal with Iran will not threaten Israel's security by threatening to attack Iran whenever we preceive that it is cheating or by giving Israel more conventional weapons that it can use against Iran's proxies which Israel probably doesn't need since Iran's proxies are pretty much occupied and will be for some time defending Assad from ISIS, why don't we just admit to the world that the deal gives Iran a pathway to the bomb and so Israel has our permission to attack Iran whenever it feels threatened by Iran's nukes, real or imagined, and with nukes if they believe that is necessary. In other words, we tell the world that we are not going to defend Iran from Israel, which I suspect is no more than telling the world the truth.
And maybe if we did that, Iran's mullahs would recognize and be willing to acknowledge that they need nukes like they need a hole in the head, especially now that they will have all the money they need to arm their proxies with conventional weapons to harass Israel with impunity, and maybe be willing to abandon their nuclear weapons program. And if not, it will maybe be clear to the Iranians that they and the Israelis will both be living under the Sword of Damocles, hanging by a thread, if and when Iran gets nukes, and then maybe they will demand that the mullahs give up the program.
And maybe if we did that, Iran's mullahs would recognize and be willing to acknowledge that they need nukes like they need a hole in the head, especially now that they will have all the money they need to arm their proxies with conventional weapons to harass Israel with impunity, and maybe be willing to abandon their nuclear weapons program. And if not, it will maybe be clear to the Iranians that they and the Israelis will both be living under the Sword of Damocles, hanging by a thread, if and when Iran gets nukes, and then maybe they will demand that the mullahs give up the program.
1
Why is nuclear disarmament for Israel never discussed, never on the table?
Israel has been the outlaw nation when it comes to building a nuclear arsenal. Of course they can justify any moral outrage by simply stating "because Holocaust."
Israel has a vibrant growing economy, with better debt-to-GDP ratio than the US. It is insane that US gives Israel a nickel.
Israel has been the outlaw nation when it comes to building a nuclear arsenal. Of course they can justify any moral outrage by simply stating "because Holocaust."
Israel has a vibrant growing economy, with better debt-to-GDP ratio than the US. It is insane that US gives Israel a nickel.
27
"...Increased cooperation between America and its regional partners, including the Arab gulf states as well as Israel, is vital to ensuring that Iran sticks to the deal..."
Let me guess, when, not if, Iran, the world's largest supporters of terrorism, a condition unaffected by the deal, fails to abide by said deal, the Times Editorial Board has set up Israel, the US, and regional partners, including the Arab Gulf states, to be blamed for failing to live up to the Obama Administration's ideals. And therefore, somehow manage to, "provoke" the Iranians into doing what they have done since they took the US Embassy Staff in Tehran hostage in 1979, act like a rogue state engaging in blackmail.
Let me guess, when, not if, Iran, the world's largest supporters of terrorism, a condition unaffected by the deal, fails to abide by said deal, the Times Editorial Board has set up Israel, the US, and regional partners, including the Arab Gulf states, to be blamed for failing to live up to the Obama Administration's ideals. And therefore, somehow manage to, "provoke" the Iranians into doing what they have done since they took the US Embassy Staff in Tehran hostage in 1979, act like a rogue state engaging in blackmail.
1
I beg to differ. The worlds largest supporter of terrorism is Saudi Arabia and its fundamentalist religion that it exports to the rest of the middle east. There was not one member of the 9/11 attack that came from Iran, almost all of them were Saudi citizens.
2
If Iran has not manufactured within the fifteen year life of the treaty, will you admit you were simply wrong, or will you continue to make excuses for your arrogance?
All this posturing should be put on the back burner for about 10 years. They don't need any more guns, airplanes or bombs in the Middle East. Our allies have all the "firepower" they need. Save our money.
12
It's not quite clear what the "deal" is, if there even is one. As Nancy Pelosi artfully state about the AHCA, "let's pass it, so we can see what's in it!" What is likely is that the next Administration will be conducting corrective surgery, or acting as pallbearers.
1
The end of this editorial is truly awful.
"Israel undermines stability by failing to negotiate peace with the Palestinians" is ahistorical. Abba Eban's famous old quip that the Palestinians have never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity still holds. The Palestinians repeatedly set preconditions for negotiations, then welsh when Israel accepts them (e.g., hiatus in settlement-building, release of terrorist prisoners). Does The Times desire Israel's utter capitulation at the negotiating table?
"Those ties [with the US] were put at risk by Benjamin Netanyahu ..." is said in the context of a deal that has been opposed by Israelis across the political spectrum (a fact that has been scarcely reported in The Times). To the extent that Netanyahu put ties at risk, it was because he had the temerity to differ publicly with a President who no longer brooks his viewpoints being challenged.
President Obama and Secretary Kerry have enormously complicated, if not undermined outright, Israel's ability to defend itself. Their proposed compensation packages (for that's what they are), cited in your editorial, can only partly compensate for the damage they'll do. They have rendered the US a far from trustworthy and steadfast ally.
In 2008, President Obama ran for President on a platform of Hope. Hope is now his Middle East policy.
"Israel undermines stability by failing to negotiate peace with the Palestinians" is ahistorical. Abba Eban's famous old quip that the Palestinians have never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity still holds. The Palestinians repeatedly set preconditions for negotiations, then welsh when Israel accepts them (e.g., hiatus in settlement-building, release of terrorist prisoners). Does The Times desire Israel's utter capitulation at the negotiating table?
"Those ties [with the US] were put at risk by Benjamin Netanyahu ..." is said in the context of a deal that has been opposed by Israelis across the political spectrum (a fact that has been scarcely reported in The Times). To the extent that Netanyahu put ties at risk, it was because he had the temerity to differ publicly with a President who no longer brooks his viewpoints being challenged.
President Obama and Secretary Kerry have enormously complicated, if not undermined outright, Israel's ability to defend itself. Their proposed compensation packages (for that's what they are), cited in your editorial, can only partly compensate for the damage they'll do. They have rendered the US a far from trustworthy and steadfast ally.
In 2008, President Obama ran for President on a platform of Hope. Hope is now his Middle East policy.
5
America cannot forget that Israel's overwhelming military superiority, its capacity to strike at will and without international restraints, its disregard for basic human rights of Palestinians is a permanent provocation to regional Islamic states. So, US gives Israel $20B in weapons over 6 years. And expects to be considered an honest broker, while Palestinians lack water, basic human needs, suffer worst humiliation each day? These policies, in place due to American jewish pressure on politicians, are provocations; they will be seeding terrorist groups for ever. A lesson of Vietnam - an unequal enemy with a cause resorts to guerrilla warfare, terrorism. Let us not forget.
19
The US needs to get something for all its aid money to Israel -- how about a two-state peace solution with the Palestinians. The effect of that deal would be profoundly constructive, including reducing a host of secondary tensions.
What the US does not need is to be extorted for more 'aid' aka weapons and free money to finance more settlement building. Further the US does not need to be manipulated and provoked by right wing Israel and its lobby into fighting a war with Iran.
What the US does not need is to be extorted for more 'aid' aka weapons and free money to finance more settlement building. Further the US does not need to be manipulated and provoked by right wing Israel and its lobby into fighting a war with Iran.
15
"A crucial sense of trust needs to be rebuilt. It is unclear that this can happen soon, no matter how many promises of aid and cooperation America makes to Israel." It is past time for Israel to make some promises of cooperation to America and the region, It is also way past time for Saudi Arabia to reign in the extremists their money and silence allow to propagate.
But, as long as the house of Saud and the party of Netanyahu need to prop up their power and prestige by using extreme and paranoid visions of doom and destruction that will not happen.
But, as long as the house of Saud and the party of Netanyahu need to prop up their power and prestige by using extreme and paranoid visions of doom and destruction that will not happen.
9
Not content with having carried toxic waste for the Administration throughout the bungled and ill-conceived nuclear negotiations that resulted in nothing less than the handing over the Middle East to Iran and Russia, the Times now ups the ante by resuming its endless vendetta against Mr. Netanyhau and the Republicans.
And why not? Their crimes are obvious to the Times. Mr. Netanyahu is plainly guilty of wanting to secure the safety of his people,
insofar as he is humanly able to do. And the Republicans, well they are just Republicans, and the Times believes it is G-d's will that they be opposed at every turn, regardless of the merits of their case, and notwithstanding the fact that a large majority of Americans were opposed to the deal and continue to believe that it will ultimately result in a disaster.
When the Times Editorial Board dreams at night about Mr. Netanyahu and the Republicans in Technicolor, do they have horns and tails?
And why not? Their crimes are obvious to the Times. Mr. Netanyahu is plainly guilty of wanting to secure the safety of his people,
insofar as he is humanly able to do. And the Republicans, well they are just Republicans, and the Times believes it is G-d's will that they be opposed at every turn, regardless of the merits of their case, and notwithstanding the fact that a large majority of Americans were opposed to the deal and continue to believe that it will ultimately result in a disaster.
When the Times Editorial Board dreams at night about Mr. Netanyahu and the Republicans in Technicolor, do they have horns and tails?
4
By the US giving Israel more weapons to intimidate Arab countries , the US is enabling Netanyahu to be a bully and to never consider compromise to bring about peace in the region. This leads to distrust of the US by the Arab Nations who hear the US say that diplomacy is preferred while at the same time arming Israel with weapon capabilities that they really don't need. It's Netanyahu's way or the highway. Narcissistic meglomaniacs are always going to feel threatened by their shadow because their world view revolves around them and anyone that threatens that worldview is a mortal enemy. It makes the US look disengenuous for it's support of Israel, because Israel fears no repercussions with AIPAC's political and econmic muscle so Israel feels free to "bite the hand that feeds it"
21
Easy to blame tiny Israel for the problems in the Middle East. Heaven knows that they are far from perfect. I certainly don't agree with many of their choices.
I just wonder where all those progressive voices are complaining about beheadings in Saudi Arabia or the failure of Israel's neighbours to take in some of the millions of refugees or the human rights violations by most if not all of those same countries (and that's just for starters). Just asking
I just wonder where all those progressive voices are complaining about beheadings in Saudi Arabia or the failure of Israel's neighbours to take in some of the millions of refugees or the human rights violations by most if not all of those same countries (and that's just for starters). Just asking
3
Saudi Arabia never came to us with hat in hand asking for money and claiming that they deserve our largesse because they "share our values".
"Just asking"
You won't get an answer, not from this crowd and certainly not from the Times' editorial board.
You won't get an answer, not from this crowd and certainly not from the Times' editorial board.
How many refugees has Israel taken in?
1
The outright war mongering of the NY Times is extremely disappointing. By increased cooperation the Times is really advocating more advanced conventional arms.
Israel has the ultimate protection against a nuclear armed Iran. Mutual Assured Destruction. It's the build up of conventional arms that all sides seem perfectly comfortable using that's the real problem in the ME.
We no longer need oil out of the ME. It's time to stop trading conventional arms for oil.
It's shameful that Democrats who have supported the President did so by getting a massive arms deal for Israel in return.
The Israeli lobby has done an amazing job of getting Democrats and Republicans to sell themselves with little in return. How about we at least extract a moratorium on new settlements in return for this shake down.
Israel has the ultimate protection against a nuclear armed Iran. Mutual Assured Destruction. It's the build up of conventional arms that all sides seem perfectly comfortable using that's the real problem in the ME.
We no longer need oil out of the ME. It's time to stop trading conventional arms for oil.
It's shameful that Democrats who have supported the President did so by getting a massive arms deal for Israel in return.
The Israeli lobby has done an amazing job of getting Democrats and Republicans to sell themselves with little in return. How about we at least extract a moratorium on new settlements in return for this shake down.
17
"Israel undermines stability by failing to negotiate peace with the Palestinians"
So the Israelis should instead evacuate Gaza to promote peace with the Palestinians? The Palestinians responded to that peace gesture by shooting rockets at Israeli schools, from Palestinian school yards. How about offering title to the vast majority of the west bank in return for peace? Tried that in 2000 and 2008, the Palestinians answered with a war. How about getting the 'intransigent' Netanyahu to sign on to the Kerry Parameters? He did in 2014, the 'peacemaker' Abbas, favorite of the NYTimes editorial writers told Obama to forget about it, he wasn't going to end the conflict in return for title to the west bank, the definition of peace.
Though it is the editorial policy of the NYTimes to blame everything on Israel and to give the Palestinians a free pass, perhaps the Times editorial page could try a little balance. Then perhaps the Palestinians would realize that their intransigence is self-defeating. Right now they read the NYTimes and figure their is no consequence to turning down Israeli peace gestures. On the pages of the NYTimes editorials, they are correct.
So the Israelis should instead evacuate Gaza to promote peace with the Palestinians? The Palestinians responded to that peace gesture by shooting rockets at Israeli schools, from Palestinian school yards. How about offering title to the vast majority of the west bank in return for peace? Tried that in 2000 and 2008, the Palestinians answered with a war. How about getting the 'intransigent' Netanyahu to sign on to the Kerry Parameters? He did in 2014, the 'peacemaker' Abbas, favorite of the NYTimes editorial writers told Obama to forget about it, he wasn't going to end the conflict in return for title to the west bank, the definition of peace.
Though it is the editorial policy of the NYTimes to blame everything on Israel and to give the Palestinians a free pass, perhaps the Times editorial page could try a little balance. Then perhaps the Palestinians would realize that their intransigence is self-defeating. Right now they read the NYTimes and figure their is no consequence to turning down Israeli peace gestures. On the pages of the NYTimes editorials, they are correct.
8
I am amazed at the anti-Israel rhetoric from a number of these comments and the thumbs up they are receiving.
First Israel is the only democracy in the ME and from a western point of view we support democracy. It may not be pretty just as here in the US but it is a better system than all the rest. In fact many ME Arab and Persian writers have accused the US of not supporting democracy for Arab and Persian countries because we are racist. That's hard to argue against given our lack of rhetorical support and direction for those nations to become a democracy. We are too much in bed with the latest dictator in the ME. If we cannot support Israel which is surrounded by hostile royal dictators, religious dictators and military dictatorships I would suggest we are not only racist but stupid as well.
Second $20 Billion over 6 years is a pittance in our national budget but we just freed up over $90 Billion for Iran in one fell swoop and now we are talking about finding ways to make sure they don't spend that money on terrorism.
The anti Israel rhetoric is revealing a true lack of perspective on the ME and its core problems and who we can depend on. It sure is not Iran or any of the Arab states. We are the common enemy that keeps their rulers in power.
First Israel is the only democracy in the ME and from a western point of view we support democracy. It may not be pretty just as here in the US but it is a better system than all the rest. In fact many ME Arab and Persian writers have accused the US of not supporting democracy for Arab and Persian countries because we are racist. That's hard to argue against given our lack of rhetorical support and direction for those nations to become a democracy. We are too much in bed with the latest dictator in the ME. If we cannot support Israel which is surrounded by hostile royal dictators, religious dictators and military dictatorships I would suggest we are not only racist but stupid as well.
Second $20 Billion over 6 years is a pittance in our national budget but we just freed up over $90 Billion for Iran in one fell swoop and now we are talking about finding ways to make sure they don't spend that money on terrorism.
The anti Israel rhetoric is revealing a true lack of perspective on the ME and its core problems and who we can depend on. It sure is not Iran or any of the Arab states. We are the common enemy that keeps their rulers in power.
6
We support democracy? last time i checked we overthrew Iran's democratically elected government in 1953.........
And that 20 Billion may seem like a small amount but keep in mind its a present for them.
The 90 Billion you are complaining about is actually hard earned money that belongs to Iran so don't pretend like we are gifting them anything.
And that 20 Billion may seem like a small amount but keep in mind its a present for them.
The 90 Billion you are complaining about is actually hard earned money that belongs to Iran so don't pretend like we are gifting them anything.
Obama has tried to support the Arab Spring movement with the idea that it was pro-democracy. One can argue the execution of that support but the aspiration was present. I agree that we have been inconsistent in the past and cynically self-interested which is reflected in my comment about being "in bed with the latest ME dictator."
However being hostile to Israel is just a foolish continuation of that inconsistency with respect to our treatment of democracies in the ME. Fundamentally Israel is like the US. If the US was a small country in the ME we would also be targeted for our liberal western values and be in constant conflict. The hostility is not just about being Jewish it's about democracy. Israel's vitality and freedom is a threat to the dictators around them hence they are the enemy.
If you are offended by support for Israel then you must be offended by support for Egypt and Pakistan as well as all of the money we have paid in the past for ME oil. The release of frozen money to Iran is not the same as support money but perhaps we would not need to support Israel if Iran was not promising to wipe them off the face of the earth.
In summary, the root cause of problems in the ME is the leadership of these ME countries which is dominated by religious, military and royal dictatorships.
However being hostile to Israel is just a foolish continuation of that inconsistency with respect to our treatment of democracies in the ME. Fundamentally Israel is like the US. If the US was a small country in the ME we would also be targeted for our liberal western values and be in constant conflict. The hostility is not just about being Jewish it's about democracy. Israel's vitality and freedom is a threat to the dictators around them hence they are the enemy.
If you are offended by support for Israel then you must be offended by support for Egypt and Pakistan as well as all of the money we have paid in the past for ME oil. The release of frozen money to Iran is not the same as support money but perhaps we would not need to support Israel if Iran was not promising to wipe them off the face of the earth.
In summary, the root cause of problems in the ME is the leadership of these ME countries which is dominated by religious, military and royal dictatorships.
". . . attention is shifting to what America must do to reassure Israel and its American supporters that the agreement will not harm Israel’s security."
Israel, and the AIPAC overlords of our Congressmen, would do well to focus on what THEY must do to ensure continued American support for that tiny mouse that incessantly roars, carps, complains, and insults. Withdrawing to the 1967 lines would be a good, first step.
Israel, and the AIPAC overlords of our Congressmen, would do well to focus on what THEY must do to ensure continued American support for that tiny mouse that incessantly roars, carps, complains, and insults. Withdrawing to the 1967 lines would be a good, first step.
14
Republican attitudes and responses to the Iran Deal seem like those to the ACA, kill it without any thought as to who it will hurt.
Our aid to the Gulf states and Israel seem only to feed into the power politics of the area and provide more grist for the warlike attitudes of the governments in the area. Perhaps behind much of what the US does by giving weapons is to set up a balance of power between the factions, but can this really prevent the fanatics on both sides of these religious wars from going off into the deep end of war and suffering?
Our aid to the Gulf states and Israel seem only to feed into the power politics of the area and provide more grist for the warlike attitudes of the governments in the area. Perhaps behind much of what the US does by giving weapons is to set up a balance of power between the factions, but can this really prevent the fanatics on both sides of these religious wars from going off into the deep end of war and suffering?
1
When I read articles like this, I can't help but ask myself what sort of world we'd live in today had Holocaust guilt not driven the creation of the state of Israel in 1948. I know that trying to put toothpaste back in the tube is a fool's errand, but given the precarious state of world today, it's hard not to consider the ramifications of a post-war diplomacy that was based more on pragmatism than emotion.
12
Not adding the MOP bomb to Israel's arsenal is provacative and dangerous.
The U.S. was able to stand down and ultimately prevail over the former Soviet Union by matching and going beyond that regime's military prowess, THEN, Gorbachev took Reagan seriously and a decrease in arms was negotiated.
Iran is a bully. It is one of the most serious sponsor's of state terrorism. Bullies understand strength, not weakness.
Give the MOP to Israel is a warning to Iran .
Note: Israel has never never used a nuclear weapon despite years of alleged possession (unlike the U.S. and unlike the threats of destruction from Iran)
The U.S. was able to stand down and ultimately prevail over the former Soviet Union by matching and going beyond that regime's military prowess, THEN, Gorbachev took Reagan seriously and a decrease in arms was negotiated.
Iran is a bully. It is one of the most serious sponsor's of state terrorism. Bullies understand strength, not weakness.
Give the MOP to Israel is a warning to Iran .
Note: Israel has never never used a nuclear weapon despite years of alleged possession (unlike the U.S. and unlike the threats of destruction from Iran)
6
One of the worse things that can happen in foreign policy is to allow a small country, such as Israel, determine when a large country, such as mine, goes to war. The cascading series of events leading into WWI are the prime example of what can happen when this principle is abandoned. Supplying the 30,000 lbs bunker bomb will strengthen Israel's capacity to do exactly what should be prevented. The bombs will enable Israel to start a war that it cannot complete. It saddens me to think that there are members of my Congress who are so willing to turn the most basic power of my government--the power to declare war--over to a foreign country.
26
Israelis only seeks to defend their nation and her population; war will not be necessary unless Iran, its proxies Hezbollah and Hamas, or other Palestinians
initiate and provoke it.
Hopefully, if war becomes necessary, the U.S. military will arrive to find Iranian targets and the Gaza Strip smoking ruins, before the U.S. has to do anything. Keeping Israel's qualitative military edge sharp will make that outcome more probable!
initiate and provoke it.
Hopefully, if war becomes necessary, the U.S. military will arrive to find Iranian targets and the Gaza Strip smoking ruins, before the U.S. has to do anything. Keeping Israel's qualitative military edge sharp will make that outcome more probable!
2
America has no responsibility to Israel as long as it is not an honest partner.
Israel is an apartheid state that has spied upon us, headed by a hyper partisan Likudnik that gives lip service to peace while systemically taking land from people unfortunate enough to live in lands under Israeli occupation.
Israel has acted like a war criminal for a very long time. Ask the UN peacekeepers in Lebanon who have been targeted by the Israeli Army over the years or the people who live with cluster bombs in Southern Lebanon. Or the children of Gaza- made homeless by war crime strikes against civilian targets.
We need to cut off all aid to Israel until it comes clean with itself and with it's neighbors. Demographics are not on the side of the Republicans or their compatriots the Likudniks. History teaches us that someday there will be a reckoning and the path Israel is on will not make things better.
We should not be helping Israel and should send their Ambassador and Counselors home until we get an official apology for Netanyahu's open meddling in our politics.
This speck of a country- less than twice the size of Los Angeles County- has been an outsized pain in the backside for a very long time. They have been getting far more from us than we ever got from them.
Israel is an apartheid state that has spied upon us, headed by a hyper partisan Likudnik that gives lip service to peace while systemically taking land from people unfortunate enough to live in lands under Israeli occupation.
Israel has acted like a war criminal for a very long time. Ask the UN peacekeepers in Lebanon who have been targeted by the Israeli Army over the years or the people who live with cluster bombs in Southern Lebanon. Or the children of Gaza- made homeless by war crime strikes against civilian targets.
We need to cut off all aid to Israel until it comes clean with itself and with it's neighbors. Demographics are not on the side of the Republicans or their compatriots the Likudniks. History teaches us that someday there will be a reckoning and the path Israel is on will not make things better.
We should not be helping Israel and should send their Ambassador and Counselors home until we get an official apology for Netanyahu's open meddling in our politics.
This speck of a country- less than twice the size of Los Angeles County- has been an outsized pain in the backside for a very long time. They have been getting far more from us than we ever got from them.
23
The tired, old "Apartheid" canard is the favored tool of bigots seeking to delegitimize and eradicate Israel. Unlike Apartheid era South Africa, all Israeli citizens: Arabs, Christians, Druze and Jews, can vote, form political parties and hold public office. In which Arab countries, other than Tunisia, can minorities, not to mention the majority, enjoy those rights?
Dislike him, if you will, but Mr. Netanyahu has kept his nation secure through three wars, in which Hamas deliberately targeted civilian communities in violation of the 1949 Geneva Conventions, defining that conduct as a "war crime."
As the aggressor, Hamas may define its own "Rules Of Engagement," but when those same "R.O.E." are applied against Hamas, they have no right to complain. When al-Qaida brought down the Twin Towers on 9/11/01, Palestinians danced in the street and handed out sweets in celebration. Last summer, residents of Sderot, Israel, a frequent target of Hamas rockets, sat on sofas outside their homes and cheered as the I.D.F. Air Force put on a show by taking down high rise buildings in Gaza City.
There is an old Marine Corps adage about "Payback," which cannot be repeated in its entirety in a family newspaper, but in essence, "what goes around, comes around!" As long as Hamas, Hezbollah, or other Iranian proxies provoke war against Israel, they will earn the full retribution of the I.D.F. They will reap the death and devastation that they sow!
Dislike him, if you will, but Mr. Netanyahu has kept his nation secure through three wars, in which Hamas deliberately targeted civilian communities in violation of the 1949 Geneva Conventions, defining that conduct as a "war crime."
As the aggressor, Hamas may define its own "Rules Of Engagement," but when those same "R.O.E." are applied against Hamas, they have no right to complain. When al-Qaida brought down the Twin Towers on 9/11/01, Palestinians danced in the street and handed out sweets in celebration. Last summer, residents of Sderot, Israel, a frequent target of Hamas rockets, sat on sofas outside their homes and cheered as the I.D.F. Air Force put on a show by taking down high rise buildings in Gaza City.
There is an old Marine Corps adage about "Payback," which cannot be repeated in its entirety in a family newspaper, but in essence, "what goes around, comes around!" As long as Hamas, Hezbollah, or other Iranian proxies provoke war against Israel, they will earn the full retribution of the I.D.F. They will reap the death and devastation that they sow!
2
You're so off on every point, I'll only address one because I don't have the time to fix your brand of ill-informed or just plain stupid. Show us your evidence of apartheid in Israel. I can show you Arab MKs, Arab Supreme Court Justices, Muslim Top Chef contestants, Druze and Israeli Arabs serving in the IDF, Ethiopians winning beauty contests, and so much more. Perhaps you should learn the definition of a word before you try to use it in a sentence.
1
I can definitely say I'm Pro Israel, for many reasons I just love the country and the people, the culture, the history. But I also think the attitude of Israel to be really arrogant. The US did so much for this country, helping them in so many ways. The attitude of Netanyahu toward Obama by siding with the Republicans and therefore involving himself in internal politic of the US was so unacceptable. They should also have the intelligence to understand that other countries in that region also have the right to develop and aim at a better living. Their attitude can do nothing but create anger.
13
To put forth the idea that Israel is militarily vulnerable is specious.
14
The solution is to give the military industrial complex more money? The solution is to send more weapons to the Middle East. The solution is to let Iran have millions of dollars to further finance terrorists? You guys are a wacky lot indeed.
3
We should not forget that Netanyahu has already planned 3 attacks on Iran which didn't come off. His goal is to have us in a war with Iran. We should not provide him stronger weapons than he already has. Israel is already far stronger militarily than anyone in the region, thank to us.
13
Further supporting Israel and its activities in the Middle East is like supporting the Klu Klux Klan in the South. They have both had their day in the sunshine, nothing good has come of it and they need to be dealt with for what they are.
13
The Saudi's are the biggest threat to the world. They fund more terrorists groups that are real threats than the Iranians. Al Queda, ISIS, Taliban, Lashkar-e-Taiba and the Al-Nusra Front among others. all started and funded by Saudi Arabia. The Iranians are being encircled by Saudi funded terrorist groups. There is some evidence from a U.N. report that the Israel defense forces from at least 2013 are helping and possibly arming ISIS. Why should the Iranians feel threatened by the Saudis, Israel and the USA (after all we did once overthrow their elected government?
1
The Iran deal, for which this newspaper was a lead supporter, has already revealed itself for the sham it is: only a day ago the IAEA received its first soil sample from Parchin, selected by the Iranians. If you aren't among those who already have been lulled to sleep by the sirens, it is clear this deal borders on the theater of the absurd. Of course Israel should receive the MOP, though that, alone, isn't enough. The editorial speaks of a "cooperation" between Israel and the US as the key to Israel's security. But you would undoubtedly protest that Obama has been a strong supporter. Yet he gave the Iranians the smooth pathway to the bomb. No, in the last analysis Israel must be able to make the final decisions about its existence. And as it -- and Jews everywhere have learned -- they can count only on themselves when their very existence is threatened.
3
"The focus on America’s obligations often ignores the responsibility Israel and the gulf states have for regional security". This is the source of all evil, because Washington does not take a tough stance on its protégés, who often behave recklessly in the region. They know that they could get away with impunity and rely on the US to straighten things out for them. With the exception of Israel, which receives military aid in billions from Washington, the Sunni Arabs have to pay for it. Iran and its allies have no choice but to buy weapons from Russia.
Indeed, before the foundation of the Israeli state and the exploitation of oil in the Middle East, Sunnis and Shiites had their way to co-exist peacefully.
Indeed, before the foundation of the Israeli state and the exploitation of oil in the Middle East, Sunnis and Shiites had their way to co-exist peacefully.
6
Efforts to ensure Iranian compliance with the recent nuclear agreement, especially its terms of inspection, should not include further arming a nation already armed to the teeth; one that regularly attacks its neighbors and subject populations, and that already has nuclear weapons, which it refuses to acknowledge, along with refusing inspections. That nation, of course, is Israel, which also categorically refuses to sign the international Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons.
7
It's hard to accept the fact that the United States can do much more for Israel than what it has already done for decades, billions in grants and military aid. How much more do we to give to that so-called ally? And what has Israel done for the United States? Nothing, nothing at all but thumb its nose to America time and time again. We should firmly oppose to any additional giveaways, period. Enough of kowtowing to that ungrateful nation.
8
When I read the title of the editorial, I thought that perhaps the NYT had, for the first time in decades, moved up the Foreverstan (the MIddle East) learning curve. I was wrong. Same old, same old war mongering for the national security military industrial complex.
The USA is the greatest arms merchant in the world. We have spread weapons liberally through Forevestan for the last 35 years for what purpose? How many Muslims have died? How many homes and businesses have been destroyed? How many millions are now living in misery in camps? Is that region any more stable? And, although there is virtually no real threat to the USA mainland from Foreverstan, does the USA feel more secure?
And so what should we do? More of the same apparently. No learning curve. No peace. No stability. And how long will this go on? Forever.
The USA is the greatest arms merchant in the world. We have spread weapons liberally through Forevestan for the last 35 years for what purpose? How many Muslims have died? How many homes and businesses have been destroyed? How many millions are now living in misery in camps? Is that region any more stable? And, although there is virtually no real threat to the USA mainland from Foreverstan, does the USA feel more secure?
And so what should we do? More of the same apparently. No learning curve. No peace. No stability. And how long will this go on? Forever.
4
Israel is already the strongest in the Middle East in terms of Military power.
How about a bunker-busting two-state solution with the Palestinians? War-mongering and war-making has failed terribly in the Middle East.
There was no ISIS and refugee tragedy before the Iraq disaster.
There was no Hezbollah before Sharon's invasion of Lebanon.
There was no Hamas before Israel's beat-down of the 1987 Intifada.
What new militant group will emerge from the Gaza beat-down?
If the Palestinians had a state, they'd have something to build on.
Right now their land is just being stolen slowly for settlements, with an new settlement project being announced every time a US official shows up.
This is the behavior US aid is buying.
How about a bunker-busting two-state solution with the Palestinians? War-mongering and war-making has failed terribly in the Middle East.
There was no ISIS and refugee tragedy before the Iraq disaster.
There was no Hezbollah before Sharon's invasion of Lebanon.
There was no Hamas before Israel's beat-down of the 1987 Intifada.
What new militant group will emerge from the Gaza beat-down?
If the Palestinians had a state, they'd have something to build on.
Right now their land is just being stolen slowly for settlements, with an new settlement project being announced every time a US official shows up.
This is the behavior US aid is buying.
9
Yes, that worked out real well in Gaza! There are 22 failed Arab States already, what makes you think adding one more will change anything?
"Israel undermines stability by failing to negotiate peace with the Palestinians."
To paraphrase the president: typical Times.
The Egypt treaty, Jordanian treaty, the Oslo accords, the Gaza withdrawal, the Barak plan, the Taba plan, the Ohmert plan - all proffered and signed off on by Israel over the last forty years. Proof, to the Times, I guess, that Israel is the obstacle to peace - how odd. The latter three plans gave the Palestinians everything they said they wanted, particularly the Ohmert plan. But they walked away.
The Palestinians are in total disarray. Even if Israel and the PA concluded a deal, Hamas would reject it and the West Bank PA would refuse a separate peace deal.
I never liked the settlement program - the land should have been kept as a military zone, easy to redefine and from which to ultimately withdraw. Nevertheless, and perhaps exactly because there are settlements, you would think the Palestinians would do what the Zionists did in 1947, accept a deal that gives you what you want, even if every dot and tittle is not in place. That would be good for everyone but the Palestinian leadership walks away - of course.
As for the Times, of course, it dumps the blame on Israel. How odd; the Times editorial board, when it comes to Israel, is strange.
To paraphrase the president: typical Times.
The Egypt treaty, Jordanian treaty, the Oslo accords, the Gaza withdrawal, the Barak plan, the Taba plan, the Ohmert plan - all proffered and signed off on by Israel over the last forty years. Proof, to the Times, I guess, that Israel is the obstacle to peace - how odd. The latter three plans gave the Palestinians everything they said they wanted, particularly the Ohmert plan. But they walked away.
The Palestinians are in total disarray. Even if Israel and the PA concluded a deal, Hamas would reject it and the West Bank PA would refuse a separate peace deal.
I never liked the settlement program - the land should have been kept as a military zone, easy to redefine and from which to ultimately withdraw. Nevertheless, and perhaps exactly because there are settlements, you would think the Palestinians would do what the Zionists did in 1947, accept a deal that gives you what you want, even if every dot and tittle is not in place. That would be good for everyone but the Palestinian leadership walks away - of course.
As for the Times, of course, it dumps the blame on Israel. How odd; the Times editorial board, when it comes to Israel, is strange.
4
Week after week, one comes here and reads dozens of vitriolic anti-Israel posts. Why do we give Israel this, that, the other? Why doesn't Israel give the Palestinians?...
To read the posts is to arrive at the notion that the entire U.S. citizenry feels one way about Israel. Yet curiously, the entire elected leadership, put into office by voters who are clearly anti-Israel and pro-Palestinian, feels another way. I've never been able to square this circle.
Why the persistent dichotomy? Why don't Americans, when they decide for whom to vote, give top priority to the candidates' positions on Israel? Why don't such candidates exist who echo the views of the anti-Israel citizens? Why don't posters who detest Israel consistently elect politicians who are strident supporters of Israel?
Please don't tell me it's the Jewish lobby. It can do many things but it can't buy elections for seats in the House, which is overwhelmingly Republican and pro-Israel. And you posters live in these states. Why don't you vote your candidate out and put a pro-Palestinian in office? Are you less anti-Israel than anti-Jewish, and coming here and typing away gets you what you need?
Just asking. Trying to understand the bifurcation between talk and action.
To read the posts is to arrive at the notion that the entire U.S. citizenry feels one way about Israel. Yet curiously, the entire elected leadership, put into office by voters who are clearly anti-Israel and pro-Palestinian, feels another way. I've never been able to square this circle.
Why the persistent dichotomy? Why don't Americans, when they decide for whom to vote, give top priority to the candidates' positions on Israel? Why don't such candidates exist who echo the views of the anti-Israel citizens? Why don't posters who detest Israel consistently elect politicians who are strident supporters of Israel?
Please don't tell me it's the Jewish lobby. It can do many things but it can't buy elections for seats in the House, which is overwhelmingly Republican and pro-Israel. And you posters live in these states. Why don't you vote your candidate out and put a pro-Palestinian in office? Are you less anti-Israel than anti-Jewish, and coming here and typing away gets you what you need?
Just asking. Trying to understand the bifurcation between talk and action.
1
Benjamin Netanyahu is an insulting, cranky and tiresome fanatic. He leads a country that depends upon the good will not of its neighbors, who mistrust it for good reason, but of far-flung "friends." That the U.S. feels obliged to support Israel to the extent it does, in the face of Israel's unconscionable behavior (settlements, bombings, outright murder) is a mystery to this observer. The U.S. should be working with other world powers to force the mid-east tribes and cobbled-together nation states to a peace table upon pain of profound and costly sanctions.
5
Your editorial merely asks for more of what has been decades of failed and misplaced American policies in the Middle East (threatening punishment to one or more Muslim nations while calling for the lavishing of more military aid and security obligations to "comfort" poor little Israel).
Isn't it time to wake up?
Why are you not talking, regularly and loudly, about how America should use this landmark deal to transform its relations with Iran, to pull Iran fully into the political and economic orbit of the global community, and create so much good will and self interest in Iran to increase engagement with the world at large, that in 15 years no one (in or out of Iran) will care about the nuclear agreement?
Your pettiness and reliance on stock arguments that have so failed America (and the people of the Middle East) is beyond sad.
Isn't it time to wake up?
Why are you not talking, regularly and loudly, about how America should use this landmark deal to transform its relations with Iran, to pull Iran fully into the political and economic orbit of the global community, and create so much good will and self interest in Iran to increase engagement with the world at large, that in 15 years no one (in or out of Iran) will care about the nuclear agreement?
Your pettiness and reliance on stock arguments that have so failed America (and the people of the Middle East) is beyond sad.
2
America does not have "a responsibility to help ensure the security of Israel and the gulf allies". Our government has a responsibility to protect America's interests. Our interests are frequently harmed by actions of the government of Israel. It is difficult to see how America's interests are advanced by sending additional billions of dollars and weapons to Israel. How does this help America?
6
As an American who loves apple pie and the Jesus, I believe that the United States must distance itself from the dangerous foreign policy of the State of Israel. The US must have the Iranians and the Arabs as allies. The US needs the Middle East's oil. Israel exists in the Middle East as part of American foreign policy. From President Truman until the present day, Israel's only reason for being, as far as American foreign policy goes, is to keep the Arab dictatorships and the Islamic Republic of Iran in check. Let us hope and pray that Bibi Netanyahu gets the message. American tax payers, in reality own Bibi. That is what foreign aid is. It is buying foreign leaders. And that is what Bibi must learn.
1
How many more billions of dollars are we going to spend buying Israel's "friendship"? Why?
4
Stop arming Israel! Stop with the Iran bogeyman created soley by Israel to deflect from the continuing occupation and slavery of the Palestinian people. 3 Plus million people effectively imprisoned and enslaved by colonial settlers. And the NYT wants cooperation?
I think the Palestinians should start marching towards Europe enmasse and maybe then Europe and US will realize that Palestinians have been going through for 60 years what the Syrians are only going through now.
I think the Palestinians should start marching towards Europe enmasse and maybe then Europe and US will realize that Palestinians have been going through for 60 years what the Syrians are only going through now.
7
Yet once more, we read that Hezbollah is a "proxy." In what sense, exactly? Its desire to expel Israeli invaders has been its own desire, and has created the only effective resistance. Does the mere fact of accepting foreign aid turn a group into a proxy of the foreign power? If you insist on referring to proxies, please do so more even-handedly: Hariri/March 14 as Saudi proxies, Israel as US proxies.
"The focus on America’s obligations often ignores the responsibility Israel and the gulf states have for regional security. Saudi Arabia shares much blame for the rise of extremist groups, while Israel undermines stability by failing to negotiate peace with the Palestinians."
By contrast, The New York Times' editorial board apparently ignores or denies the responsibility the Palestinians have for their own peace process. If Israel is "failing to negotiate peace with the Palestinians," that implies (wrongly) that the Palestinians are at the table, waiting for the Israelis, or even moving toward the table. Far from it. Hamas in Gaza continues to make war on Israel, not negotiate peace, and as for the PA, Abbas has done nothing to promote or negotiate peace, instead announcing a unilateral and unspecified "bombshell" (rather poorly chosen metaphor, that) he plans to deliver at the United Nations.
The Times can't have it both ways. If the Palestinians are eligible for peace negotiations, they must bear responsibility themselves for pursuing or avoiding those negotiations. If it is only Israel that can initiate or move the process along, those aren't negotiations, that's simply a demand by The Times for Israel to unilaterally give away more of its territory in hopes of some unstated (and unpromised) "peace."
By contrast, The New York Times' editorial board apparently ignores or denies the responsibility the Palestinians have for their own peace process. If Israel is "failing to negotiate peace with the Palestinians," that implies (wrongly) that the Palestinians are at the table, waiting for the Israelis, or even moving toward the table. Far from it. Hamas in Gaza continues to make war on Israel, not negotiate peace, and as for the PA, Abbas has done nothing to promote or negotiate peace, instead announcing a unilateral and unspecified "bombshell" (rather poorly chosen metaphor, that) he plans to deliver at the United Nations.
The Times can't have it both ways. If the Palestinians are eligible for peace negotiations, they must bear responsibility themselves for pursuing or avoiding those negotiations. If it is only Israel that can initiate or move the process along, those aren't negotiations, that's simply a demand by The Times for Israel to unilaterally give away more of its territory in hopes of some unstated (and unpromised) "peace."
3
The Iran nuclear "deal" is clearly in the best interests of the U.S., Israel, Iran and the other countries in the region. It affords much opportunity to detect and act upon any potential "cheating" by Iran. Israel (et al) does not need any "reassuarnces" about it. We are not going to change Netanyahu's mind, nor do we need to. We should just keep calm, carry on, and be very reluctant to introduce new and greater weapons into the region.
1
Now that the Pope is visiting the USA it's a great time to add more rhetoric to the already polarized general public. For some unknown reason instead of basking in the gathering of thousands reflecting on peace and goodwill towards the oppressed in our society, the topic of bunker busting bombs comes up along with all the folks that really want to see Israel go down in flames. I gather most do not understand what the supreme ayatollah means when he says: death to Israel, every Friday in Iran. This editorial is flawed in strategic thinking and understanding of the overall implications of our national security strategy reviewed and signed off by the President. This week I prefer to ponder the possibilities of peace in our fractured society vs. giving Bibi a hard time.
2
When an Iranian built nuke goes off in Tel Aviv, it is going to be very hard to blame Bush/Cheney. Not impossible, but very hard.
2
The agreement is done. What now? What's the best way to ensure Iranian compliance?
A bipartisan Congressional resolution, signed by the President specifying military actions for certain types of serious violations puts the Iranians on notice. It strengthens the hand of the Iranian moderates, shows we mean business, and puts the lie to all those who say we're a paper tiger. It's just non-nonsensical to say we must walk gingerly so as not to offend the sensibilities of the leading exporter of terrorism in the world. Many people feel we could and should have obtained a better agreement with Iran. This proposal would go a long way toward mitigating those concerns.
A bipartisan Congressional resolution, signed by the President specifying military actions for certain types of serious violations puts the Iranians on notice. It strengthens the hand of the Iranian moderates, shows we mean business, and puts the lie to all those who say we're a paper tiger. It's just non-nonsensical to say we must walk gingerly so as not to offend the sensibilities of the leading exporter of terrorism in the world. Many people feel we could and should have obtained a better agreement with Iran. This proposal would go a long way toward mitigating those concerns.
1
Dear Editorial Board,
There can be a two state solution tomorrow if Israel agrees to allow 2 million Palestine refugees to return to their home in what is now Israel, & if Israel returns to the original partition approved by the UN,,and if the Old City of Jerusalem is void of any Jewish presence, or as Abbas recently said , " We don't want the dirty feet of Jews on the mount"Israel in return will receive the word of the Palestinians to accept Israel as an entity, but not as a Jewish State.Dear editors if you were an Israeli who have fought 3 wars with their neighbors & countless terrorist attacks against their citizens, accept that Deal.
There can be a two state solution tomorrow if Israel agrees to allow 2 million Palestine refugees to return to their home in what is now Israel, & if Israel returns to the original partition approved by the UN,,and if the Old City of Jerusalem is void of any Jewish presence, or as Abbas recently said , " We don't want the dirty feet of Jews on the mount"Israel in return will receive the word of the Palestinians to accept Israel as an entity, but not as a Jewish State.Dear editors if you were an Israeli who have fought 3 wars with their neighbors & countless terrorist attacks against their citizens, accept that Deal.
2
Many Israelis told me how grateful their country is to the USA for the support they get . The vast majority of Israelis recognize the immense debt they owe America . The military , political and economic support America provides allowed Israel to survive and prosper . And Israelis know it .
It is obviously not a balanced relationship , but then who has a balanced relationship with America ? The UK , who is cutting its defense budget
daily ? Japan , who would rather not have any army at all ? France , whose military size has declined alarmingly ? Korea ? Germany , who hardly has an air force ?
In fact , probably none of America's allies has a military as powerful as Israel's , available at America's disposal if the need arises . Obviously , it cannot be utilized where the Muslim world is concerned , which is where America's wars have been fought in the last 25 years , and has thus never been put at America's service . But who knows what a day brings ?
But the most noteworthy element is that , while America has given Israel militay hardware , not one American sodier has ever fought or ( God Forbid ) shed blood for Israel . None .
Consider , in contrast , and with a tear in your eyes , the American casualties taken in fighting to support England , France , Europe , China , Kuwait ,
Iraq , Afganistan , and more .
There are allies , and there are allies , and Israel is the very best .
God Bless America . God Bless Israel .
It is obviously not a balanced relationship , but then who has a balanced relationship with America ? The UK , who is cutting its defense budget
daily ? Japan , who would rather not have any army at all ? France , whose military size has declined alarmingly ? Korea ? Germany , who hardly has an air force ?
In fact , probably none of America's allies has a military as powerful as Israel's , available at America's disposal if the need arises . Obviously , it cannot be utilized where the Muslim world is concerned , which is where America's wars have been fought in the last 25 years , and has thus never been put at America's service . But who knows what a day brings ?
But the most noteworthy element is that , while America has given Israel militay hardware , not one American sodier has ever fought or ( God Forbid ) shed blood for Israel . None .
Consider , in contrast , and with a tear in your eyes , the American casualties taken in fighting to support England , France , Europe , China , Kuwait ,
Iraq , Afganistan , and more .
There are allies , and there are allies , and Israel is the very best .
God Bless America . God Bless Israel .
5
"America has a responsibility to help ensure the security of Israel ...." No, it does not. Israel has that responsibility, and it may ask America's assistance in doing so. But Israel also has a responsibility to ensure human and civil rights within its borders and to abide by international law apropos to the territories it occupies, neither of which it has done. Until Israel does so, America should decline to "ensure the security of Israel." America should not be funding nor insuring an apartheid state nor an illegal occupation; only when the government of Israel sees fit to end that reality, then America should assist it in regard to security.
1
The right-wing, neo-conservative government of Israel and its biggest welfare policy, itself.
"Since 2009, the United States has provided Israel with more than $20 billion in military aid, as well as more than $3 billion for missile defense systems and $1.9 billion in precision-guided munitions."
Take Israel off American welfare. Time for America to look after the poor. Israel is not poor and does not need welfare from us.
"Since 2009, the United States has provided Israel with more than $20 billion in military aid, as well as more than $3 billion for missile defense systems and $1.9 billion in precision-guided munitions."
Take Israel off American welfare. Time for America to look after the poor. Israel is not poor and does not need welfare from us.
13
First we make all the money available to Iran, a country that, as we all know, invests heavily in the financial health of terrorist groups. Then we want to do everything to prevent them from using this money the way they want to. It is like putting the house on fire and then trying to put it out with a glass of water. As to the need to "rebuilt a crucial sense of trust" I believe destroying this trust is not the best first step. It seems paradoxical, to say the least. It sounds like our best strategy to move forward is to begin by moving backwards. Will that work?
2
Isnt it time that Israel comes to the table? Why do we continue to support them financially - when we are in debt ourselves - when they outwardly show no respect to our leader? And just why does America have a responsibility to help ensure the security of Israel anyway? What have they ever done for us?
2
September 23, 2015 3:00 pm
The commander of Iran’s army said on Tuesday that the Islamic Republic would destroy Israel at all costs despite the recent nuclear deal aimed at reining in the country’s rogue behavior, according to comments by these officials.
Ataollah Salehi, commander of Iran’s army, said that no matter how many weapons are given to Israel, “we are going to destroy them,” according to comments reported in Iran’s state-controlled press and independently translated from Persian for the Washington Free Beacon.
The comments follow reports that Iran has unveiled new advanced military hardware and intends to violate international prohibitions on its construction of ballistic missiles, which could be used to carry a nuclear payload.
“Israel only barks, no matter how much weapons are given to [it], we are going to destroy them, we will promise this task will be done,” Salehi was quoted as saying by the Fars News Agency.
Salehi expressed pride in Iran’s support for terrorist groups such as Hamas and Hezbollah that seek the Jewish state’s destruction. The military leader also said that Iran has been directly responsible for attacks on Israel.
“We are glad that we are in the forefront of executing supreme leader’s order to destroy the Zionist regime,” he said. “They have been hit by those supported by us [Iran] even though they have not confronted us directly; if they confront us directly they will be destroyed.”
The commander of Iran’s army said on Tuesday that the Islamic Republic would destroy Israel at all costs despite the recent nuclear deal aimed at reining in the country’s rogue behavior, according to comments by these officials.
Ataollah Salehi, commander of Iran’s army, said that no matter how many weapons are given to Israel, “we are going to destroy them,” according to comments reported in Iran’s state-controlled press and independently translated from Persian for the Washington Free Beacon.
The comments follow reports that Iran has unveiled new advanced military hardware and intends to violate international prohibitions on its construction of ballistic missiles, which could be used to carry a nuclear payload.
“Israel only barks, no matter how much weapons are given to [it], we are going to destroy them, we will promise this task will be done,” Salehi was quoted as saying by the Fars News Agency.
Salehi expressed pride in Iran’s support for terrorist groups such as Hamas and Hezbollah that seek the Jewish state’s destruction. The military leader also said that Iran has been directly responsible for attacks on Israel.
“We are glad that we are in the forefront of executing supreme leader’s order to destroy the Zionist regime,” he said. “They have been hit by those supported by us [Iran] even though they have not confronted us directly; if they confront us directly they will be destroyed.”
2
You are buying all those posturing, be realistic. do not live in military's sphere.
Iran has no army power or will to render Israel in ruins.
Iran has no army power or will to render Israel in ruins.
Israel is not our ally, it is our albatross. If any other nation behaved like Israel, a state that occupies the land and oppresses and ethnically cleanses the indigenous people from the land from which Israel was created, the U.S. would slap sanctions on it, and condemn such a state at the U.N. Americans wonder why the U.S. is hated. We are seen as aiding and abetting the killing and maiming of civilians in Lebanon and Palestine. Israel was the only country cheer leading the U.S. to invade Iraq and take out (according to them) their biggest enemy. Bush II probably thought it would bring the Republicans Jewish support. At what cost! Peace needs to be imposed on the Israelis and Palestinians by the UN. Once that happens much of the incentive for radical jihad is removed. Israel already has the weaponry to remain the dominant state in the region. Time for the US to step back. The continued support of Israel, as that state behaves on the world stage, does not promote American strategic interests. Israelis wake up and see that life would be even better for you if you made peace with your neighbors. The status quo is not sustainable.
2
The fact that as the article says "attention is shifting to what America must do to reassure Israel and its American supporters that the agreement will not harm Israel’s security" is confirmation to the degree any was needed of the pernicious and unprecedented nature of the influence of the Pro-Israel lobby and Israel itself. The US should be negotiating for its own security and free to do deals which meet its interests without being held for ransom by Israel supporters who now feel entitled to compensation for having failed to derail the deal in Congress. What kind of a world do we live in ? What has this country come to ? This is just bad....really bad !
2
Maybe its because I am aging; or maybe its because I was slightly younger than draft age, and witnessed the useless carnage of the Vietnam War; or maybe its because I saw a similar fiasco in Iraq; or maybe its because I have seen Israel's Prime Minister ask for huge monetary and military handouts while at the sane time seeking to directly interfere with the American People's exercise of our democracy; or maybe its because there are MILLIONS of American citizens who have lived here all their lives who struggle to have food on the table, a roof over their head, or even remotely quality healthcare; or finally, maybe its the sight of a mass of Mideastern migrants seeking to swarm the EU whether they are given permission to do so or not, primarily because THEIR Arab Spring turned into an Arab Nightmare; but US military and political isolationism is looking more attractive with each passing day,
Our participation in the Iran Deal was the absolute best we could do with a bad situation, Obviously, Netanyahu would love nothing more than 50,000 US troops going to war with Iran; but what is in that for us, when we cannot take care of our own seniors, disabled and homeless citizens? Russia is more than happy to colonize and unilaterally destroy ISIS, Let them do it,
In my lifetime, our international meddling has been a repetitive fiasco, Isn't it time we told the world: "Fight your own battles and pay your own bills, we have millions of Americans we have to take care of first,
Our participation in the Iran Deal was the absolute best we could do with a bad situation, Obviously, Netanyahu would love nothing more than 50,000 US troops going to war with Iran; but what is in that for us, when we cannot take care of our own seniors, disabled and homeless citizens? Russia is more than happy to colonize and unilaterally destroy ISIS, Let them do it,
In my lifetime, our international meddling has been a repetitive fiasco, Isn't it time we told the world: "Fight your own battles and pay your own bills, we have millions of Americans we have to take care of first,
1
Seems like a way of disposing of many F-35's known to be lemons.
2
Does it ever occur to the writer of this opinion that it is odd (to say the least) that the allies of "America" in that region are the Apartheid regime of Israel, the theocracy of Saudi Arabia (main sponsor, by the way, of Islamic terrorists), and the failed state of Pakistan? In the meantime, the secular regimes of the region have been overthrown by "America" and none of them (Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya) are better after the intervention.
Let's admit that the US military was not able to prevent, nor alleviate the suffering of New Orleans while and after Katrina. The US military has been unable to do anything meaningful in Haiti, where none is attacking US forces there.
The US has failed. NATO has failed. Capitalism has failed. There are still tens of millions of US citizens without basic health care, while the government is still spending billions defending terrorist organizations like Likud and the house of Saud.
Let's admit that the US military was not able to prevent, nor alleviate the suffering of New Orleans while and after Katrina. The US military has been unable to do anything meaningful in Haiti, where none is attacking US forces there.
The US has failed. NATO has failed. Capitalism has failed. There are still tens of millions of US citizens without basic health care, while the government is still spending billions defending terrorist organizations like Likud and the house of Saud.
1
Judging from the comments I might not be the only one wishing we could walk back 1948. Why did we ever give in to this biblical whimsy ?
1
The USA has fallen into the Israeli/AIPAC trap and we are now in the era of American pathological obsession with anything and every thing that touches on Israel which has become SOLE parameter fot USA Middle East policies at the total,oblivion and malignant disregard and attempts at effacing anything else.
To pretend that Israeli security demands of the USA ceaseless efforts to ensure that no other state in the region acquires nuclear know how is to declare indefinite support of indefinite
Israeli regional military supremacy ......hardly rational or feasible but certainly inducing and entrenching further and deeper aversion,hate and rejection of every thing American by the people's of the region.
To pretend that Israeli security demands of the USA ceaseless efforts to ensure that no other state in the region acquires nuclear know how is to declare indefinite support of indefinite
Israeli regional military supremacy ......hardly rational or feasible but certainly inducing and entrenching further and deeper aversion,hate and rejection of every thing American by the people's of the region.
1
While I am a supporter of Israel, I am not a supporter of Likud which I liken to the Republican party here. Israel does face an existential threat on a daily basis but Netanyahu is not helping when he rails against the Iran deal in the same way the GOP does. I know they don't trust Iran- nobody does and certainly Obama and Kerry don't trust them which s why there is rigor in the verifiable portions of the deal. If there was no deal, Iran would have nukes much faster and they were already on the track to have them.
Congress and Bibi should try for once to support Obama for the sake of peace in the ME- but since Obama wants it- they will not lift one finger to help. I am disgusted by their small minds.
Congress and Bibi should try for once to support Obama for the sake of peace in the ME- but since Obama wants it- they will not lift one finger to help. I am disgusted by their small minds.
8
“Ensuring security” is now essentially a nonstop flow of arms and ammunition to the Middle East to ever more recipients in ever larger quantities.
Given all that is going on, in particular with civilian populations being openly targeted, is this really an amazing idea for United States to pursue?
Given all that is going on, in particular with civilian populations being openly targeted, is this really an amazing idea for United States to pursue?
1
Netanyahu has fabricated and promoted the so-called"existential threat" in order for Netanyau & Co. to stay in power. He has been intentionally provoking violent reactions from the Palestinians to support his position as Israel's "great protector".
If Israel stopped the occupation of the West Bank and stopped the effective occupation of Gaza, the threat level would become reduce dramatically immediately and become negligable in the ensuing years ......... but of course, this would put Netanyhau and his extremist buddies out of work.
If Israel stopped the occupation of the West Bank and stopped the effective occupation of Gaza, the threat level would become reduce dramatically immediately and become negligable in the ensuing years ......... but of course, this would put Netanyhau and his extremist buddies out of work.
11
The US is better off if this Iran deal leads to more constructive relationship.
The US is better off if Israel remains strong and able to defend itself.
These two circumstances are often presented as mutually exclusive. When all involved parties understand that they are simultaneously possible we will have begun the process of building more international cooperation.
The US is better off if Israel remains strong and able to defend itself.
These two circumstances are often presented as mutually exclusive. When all involved parties understand that they are simultaneously possible we will have begun the process of building more international cooperation.
It will never happen but cutting ties with Israel and using that money to help our own people, rather than supply arms to a nation that has absolutely no interest in peace, the better off we would be. As long as we back Israel, the more terrorist attacks we can expect at home and abroad. Without our aid, Israel would be forced to make a good faith effort at peace. They wouldn't be able to continue to treat Palestinians like dogs.
4
Yesterday Freedman's article described how distorted world view of Netanyahu caused the life of Issac Robin. The same play is being played by this immoral politician - this time the price may be much more - fate of Jews state. In human history, logical conclusion is considered the best survival trick - though nature provided another survival tool to animals - intuition. Human beings continuously discriminating between these two mode of decision making. To complex issues intuition works better. To get better results require a very calm and pure mind. The mind of power hungry is very different from the mind of loving person - Natanyahu and Francis. Their intuitions are very different as we notice Francis disagree with Netanyahu. America should not fuel the Netanyahu view of the world to sustain friendship.
2
The editorial reads: “There is a risk some parties will try to overcompensate for the bitter political tensions over the Iran deal and go too far in trying to please Israel.”
Read what Mr. Friedman wrote about Netanyahu a couple of days ago: "[Rabin's] murder came at the end of a hate campaign led by hallucinating rabbis, settlers who were against the withdrawal from territories and the parliamentary right, led by the Likud (party), already then headed by Benjamin Netanyahu, who wanted to destabilize Rabin’s Labor government.”
Not too long ago Israel assassinated an Iranian general and a top Hezbollah commander in order to provoke Iran during Kerry's negotiations with Iran. Same Benjamin Netanyahu, same methods.
If anyone thinks that Netanyahu is going to change his stripes to spots anytime soon is being naively stupid.
Since 2009, the United States has provided Israel with more than $20 billion in military aid, as well as more than $3 billion for missile defense systems and $1.9 billion in precision-guided munitions. It has also promised that Israel will be the only Middle East nation to have the advanced F-35 jet fighter.
What exactly has been accomplished by all that military generosity from the United States? Look at Gaza today in photographs and see the answer.
Read what Mr. Friedman wrote about Netanyahu a couple of days ago: "[Rabin's] murder came at the end of a hate campaign led by hallucinating rabbis, settlers who were against the withdrawal from territories and the parliamentary right, led by the Likud (party), already then headed by Benjamin Netanyahu, who wanted to destabilize Rabin’s Labor government.”
Not too long ago Israel assassinated an Iranian general and a top Hezbollah commander in order to provoke Iran during Kerry's negotiations with Iran. Same Benjamin Netanyahu, same methods.
If anyone thinks that Netanyahu is going to change his stripes to spots anytime soon is being naively stupid.
Since 2009, the United States has provided Israel with more than $20 billion in military aid, as well as more than $3 billion for missile defense systems and $1.9 billion in precision-guided munitions. It has also promised that Israel will be the only Middle East nation to have the advanced F-35 jet fighter.
What exactly has been accomplished by all that military generosity from the United States? Look at Gaza today in photographs and see the answer.
10
The fact that increased aid to both Israel and Saudi Arabia are needed speaks to how weak the deal is. Just last week we learned (in the New York Times and from Reuters) that yes, in fact the Iranians did their own inspections at Parchin, their military facility where hidden nuclear work was suspected.
Sorry, New York Times Editorial Board and deal supporters, if you had wanted to secure increased stability in the Middle East instead of increased military support to our allies now threatened by an emboldened Iran, you should have pushed for a better deal. The face that Democratic senators and congresspersons who supported the deal are now scrambling to save face with "deal strengthening" legislation was inevitable.
Sorry, New York Times Editorial Board and deal supporters, if you had wanted to secure increased stability in the Middle East instead of increased military support to our allies now threatened by an emboldened Iran, you should have pushed for a better deal. The face that Democratic senators and congresspersons who supported the deal are now scrambling to save face with "deal strengthening" legislation was inevitable.
The only thing America can do realistically to assure Israel is to elect a new (and hopefully this time, competent) President of the United States.
Prime Minister Netanyahu has absolutely no sane reason to believe a word Barack Obama says given Obama's antics, rhetoric and naked preferences for Iran.
That ship has sailed, and no amount of flowery rhetoric from a Times Editorial Board (increasingly adrift from reality), will change that.
Prime Minister Netanyahu has absolutely no sane reason to believe a word Barack Obama says given Obama's antics, rhetoric and naked preferences for Iran.
That ship has sailed, and no amount of flowery rhetoric from a Times Editorial Board (increasingly adrift from reality), will change that.
Israel has been under attack from it's neighbors both literally and via propagandized media since the day the modern state was established in the mid 1940's.
Had Israel lost any of the formal wars who's sole purpose was the destruction of the Jewish State of Israel during the ensuing decades, is there any doubt that the world, including the Islamicized States of Europe and BDS folks, would not be lobbying for reestablishment of the Jewish State?
Such hypocrisy, when aimed at solely Jews has been recognized over the millennium as 'antisemitism'.
Had Israel lost any of the formal wars who's sole purpose was the destruction of the Jewish State of Israel during the ensuing decades, is there any doubt that the world, including the Islamicized States of Europe and BDS folks, would not be lobbying for reestablishment of the Jewish State?
Such hypocrisy, when aimed at solely Jews has been recognized over the millennium as 'antisemitism'.
2
Just remember that other nations in that area also get aid from the U.S., not just Israel. However the U.S. policy has ostensibly been to support democracy everywhere in the world. Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East.
That said, the U.S. has more than enough problems of its own and should take care of its own people first. Unfortunately, the way the politicians are bought, their only interest is in making more money, and there's lots of money for them in war. This is one reason why the U.S. is still in Afghanistan.
That said, the U.S. has more than enough problems of its own and should take care of its own people first. Unfortunately, the way the politicians are bought, their only interest is in making more money, and there's lots of money for them in war. This is one reason why the U.S. is still in Afghanistan.
2
American has no "responsibility to help ensure the security of Israel". Israel has never shown itself to be an ally of the USA. More often it act in ways that counter and undermine US goals and priorities.
10
CAn you privide us with some sources, details and concrete examples?
There is no quantity of explosive ordinance short of genocidal levels to force a surrender in the Middle East, no matter who wields it. The fact is nearly every player in the region - ISIS, Israel, Hamas, Saudi Arabia, Iran, and so on - see themselves as the sole righteous authority, and view even negotiation as a partial surrender, a lesson they learned from U.S.
The fact of the matter is that for people to stop fighting each other, some people are going to have to work together. Israelis will have to come to terms with Palestinians, Saudis will have to come to terms with Iranians, Egyptians will have to come to terms with political Muslims. Not everybody has to get along, but it is always easier to prolong conflict than to be the pansy who calls for it to end by anything but victory. And there are always more insidious forces at work that we tend not to question.
Who is making money from all this suffering?
The fact of the matter is that for people to stop fighting each other, some people are going to have to work together. Israelis will have to come to terms with Palestinians, Saudis will have to come to terms with Iranians, Egyptians will have to come to terms with political Muslims. Not everybody has to get along, but it is always easier to prolong conflict than to be the pansy who calls for it to end by anything but victory. And there are always more insidious forces at work that we tend not to question.
Who is making money from all this suffering?
1
The first reason for having this article in print is that Israel's presence in the Middle East is the most important element for the defense of the Western World against a direct attack of radical jihadists. This accepted, then there are good reasons for an open dialogue and joint strategy. It is not a matter of "reassure ... that the agreement will not harm Israel's security", since we cannot foresee what is going to happen in the following 10 or 20 years, but rather the willingness on both sides to carry a constructive dialogue. This is not easy to advance because, among other things, too many Americans still prefer the idea of having a direct military US intervention in the Mid East.
1
When will the US and Isreal come to understand that military might is powerless when it is faced by millions of ordinary people motivated by injustice and abuse they or their peoples have experienced. Has military might prevailed in Iraq? .. in Afghanistan?
US hegemony and Israeli injustices in the Middle East may be prolonged under the umbrella of military might, but in the long term, after great expenditure of blood and treasure, they will fail and the peoples of the middle east will prevail.
Far better to support the human rights of the local populations.
US hegemony and Israeli injustices in the Middle East may be prolonged under the umbrella of military might, but in the long term, after great expenditure of blood and treasure, they will fail and the peoples of the middle east will prevail.
Far better to support the human rights of the local populations.
10
Israeli injustices? Are you kidding? It is the ONLY democracy in a theocratic and extremist neighborhood. It is the ONLY country in the region that recognizes a right to practice one's religion. It is the ONLY country to offer voting rights to minorities. It is the ONLY country that has a judiciary, legislative and executive branch.
The blood that is spilled in ENTIRELY caused by the extremist and theocratic nut jobs in the region. If you believe otherwise, your brain is void of knowledge, facts and the capacity to analyze objectively.
The blood that is spilled in ENTIRELY caused by the extremist and theocratic nut jobs in the region. If you believe otherwise, your brain is void of knowledge, facts and the capacity to analyze objectively.
The fact that the US has to promise weapons to Israel is absurd. It is widely known that Israel is in possession of 80 nuclear weapons, despite the UN's Non-Proliferation Treaty. Why has this not been discussed throughout the Iran treaty discussion? Are we expected to have two sets of rules?
14
The article is premised on what America must do to reassure Israel of its security. Pardon me, but the foremost American priority is of its own security, not that of another nation. Assuredly, Netanyahu does not consider the United States' wellbeing when making decisions. In any case, Israel is a nuclear power that never hesitates to use lethal force, hardly in need of outside military might.
14
Nor does any other leader care about the U.S.'s well-being. Just saying that to be fair.
1
Why would we give billions to Israel, a country with one of the world's best and most efficient universal, single-payer health care system? One would think that principled Republicans would join lockstep, making every possible effort to shutdown the Israeli government. No number of Congressional votes is enough to halt this disastrous healthcare system. Mr. Obama should address the Knesset with a stern lecture on the unacceptable evils of universal healthcare.
8
Of course we have a desire and responsibility to see that escalation of the chaotic middle east does not occur. But not by allowing the war dogs of Israel to dictate our foreign policy.
Bibi Netanyahu had the audacity to accept an invitation to speak to our assembled congress at the behest of the administrations opposition party and attempt to influence our foreign policy without consulting our president.
Anyone who makes a trip to Israel will find an apartheid condition exists and that all Palestinians are relegated to third class citizenship, if that.
I am thankful Mr. Obama does not take his lead from Mr. Netanyahu and the neocon hawks of DC.
Bibi Netanyahu had the audacity to accept an invitation to speak to our assembled congress at the behest of the administrations opposition party and attempt to influence our foreign policy without consulting our president.
Anyone who makes a trip to Israel will find an apartheid condition exists and that all Palestinians are relegated to third class citizenship, if that.
I am thankful Mr. Obama does not take his lead from Mr. Netanyahu and the neocon hawks of DC.
8
For all the US aid accorded to Israel Since 2009, Prime Minister has certainly written a very odd thank-you note. Unswervingly truculent and hostile even to his best friends, giving a Netanyahu-led Israel the most powerful non-nuclear bomb in the US arsenal would be the height of irresponsibility.
The only reasonable way forward is to ditch the hollow John Wayne act and strive to make the Iran deal work in the face of war-mongering figures at home and in Iran. Vote-seeking threats won't do it. Striving for peace might.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
The only reasonable way forward is to ditch the hollow John Wayne act and strive to make the Iran deal work in the face of war-mongering figures at home and in Iran. Vote-seeking threats won't do it. Striving for peace might.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
10
Although Netanyahu couldn't 'help' meddling in U.S.'s affairs 're' Iran Deal, one way to save face may be to accept. however grudgingly, the deal, is to stop republicans from bombarding it and endangering the peace process.For now, Netanyahu is playing a dangerous game...by biting Israel's helping hand. Lets trust that there remain voices of reason for a much needed constructive criticism, and keep stupidity at bay.
4
After Netanyahu’s disgusting and ungrateful behavior towards the U.S. president and the American people and his warmongering policies in the region and especially against Iran, providing Israel with more advanced weapons is highly irresponsible and is like giving more matches and petrol to an arsonist. Only a few weeks ago, Edud Barak revealed that he and Netanyahu had ordered an attack on Iran at least three times, but the saner heads in Israel prevented them from going ahead. Now, you want to give this man more deadly weapons to bomb Iran’s non-existent nuclear weapons’ sites. AIPAC and other Israeli pressure groups should be told that they went too far in meddling in U.S domestic policies and trying to sabotage a landmark U.S. foreign policy deal, but now instead of punishing them you want to appease them by giving them billions of dollars of more weapons!
You write: “In the end what is most important for Israel’s security is the relationship with the United States.” Instead, what is most important for Israel’s security is to end the apartheid regime and continued occupation of Palestinian lands, and to reach a fair and equitable agreement with millions of stateless Palestinians and to make peace with her neighbors. More militarism will only lead to greater disaster in the Middle East.
You write: “In the end what is most important for Israel’s security is the relationship with the United States.” Instead, what is most important for Israel’s security is to end the apartheid regime and continued occupation of Palestinian lands, and to reach a fair and equitable agreement with millions of stateless Palestinians and to make peace with her neighbors. More militarism will only lead to greater disaster in the Middle East.
17
"Since 2009, the United States has provided Israel with more than $20 billion in military aid, as well as more than $3 billion for missile defense systems and $1.9 billion in precision-guided munitions. It has also promised that Israel will be the only Middle East nation to have the advanced F-35 jet fighter. "
The NYT never tires of the above canard, meant to placate the left wing of its Editorial Board.
The Times leaves out that the 20 billion in military aid comes with serious strings attached. A good chunk of that money must be spent back in the good ole USA, employing thousands here, especially in American aircraft industries.
Further missing, is even a nod to the tremendous return on that investment involving missile defense systems which actually work, and which are just as vital to the US's strategic safety depth, as it is for the Jewish State.
As for Israel being supplied with the "most advanced fighter jet in the Mideast," well, she surely will need it now that the Obama administration's weak Mideast policy has enabled the Russians to place their own "most advanced fighter planes" in Latakia, Syria.
I suppose when the first dogfight occurs between Russia's "most advanced fighter jet," and that of the American-supplied "most advanced fighter jet" to Israel, there will be Pentagon experts who will learn a great deal from the carnage.
Yup, that Iran deal is looking better and better all the time.
The NYT never tires of the above canard, meant to placate the left wing of its Editorial Board.
The Times leaves out that the 20 billion in military aid comes with serious strings attached. A good chunk of that money must be spent back in the good ole USA, employing thousands here, especially in American aircraft industries.
Further missing, is even a nod to the tremendous return on that investment involving missile defense systems which actually work, and which are just as vital to the US's strategic safety depth, as it is for the Jewish State.
As for Israel being supplied with the "most advanced fighter jet in the Mideast," well, she surely will need it now that the Obama administration's weak Mideast policy has enabled the Russians to place their own "most advanced fighter planes" in Latakia, Syria.
I suppose when the first dogfight occurs between Russia's "most advanced fighter jet," and that of the American-supplied "most advanced fighter jet" to Israel, there will be Pentagon experts who will learn a great deal from the carnage.
Yup, that Iran deal is looking better and better all the time.
2
Reading many of the hateful comments about Israel makes me realize that anti-Semitism is alive and well in the United States.
Where was all the concern about money given in financial aid (to Israel circa $30 billion) when the United States was spending upwards to $4 TRILLION in Iraq and Afghanistan, countries which are not democratic like Israel and with which America shares little in common?
Where was all the concern about money given in financial aid (to Israel circa $30 billion) when the United States was spending upwards to $4 TRILLION in Iraq and Afghanistan, countries which are not democratic like Israel and with which America shares little in common?
8
Your $4 trillion to Iraq and Afghanistan was covering Israel's back. Just add the $4 trillion to the $25 billion given directly to Israel.
You missed the concern/outrage over the $4 trillion spent on Iraq war?? I'm not sure how you could have missed that.
You can add a good chunk of that account to Israel's bill, because Israeli officials and particularly Netanyahu falsely claimed that Saddam Hussein had nuclear bombs and constantly incited an invasion of that country in order to keep Israel safe.
We don't owe Israel anything. They owe us. Maybe they could start by paying us back for some of the billions we have given them over the years.
39
Just make it simple. Never speak to Bibi again, unless he comes back to Congress and endorses working with his country's benefactor.
11
What a strange op-ed. The last paragraph should have been the first. Netanyahu's unconscionable meddling in US politics and appalling treatment of our President and Sec. of State was and is a problem. Obama and Kerry made huge efforts to exact the best deal possible, in Israel's interest, in conjunction with 5 other powers who, in varying degrees, were ready to start trading with Iran no matter what.
The piece mentions all the US did to exact support for the deal from Israel but fails to mention that that support never materialized. Israel is taking a lot for granted!
The piece mentions all the US did to exact support for the deal from Israel but fails to mention that that support never materialized. Israel is taking a lot for granted!
25
Hard to really believe how the liberals and Democrates of this country have shown how anti-semetic they really are. So many ignorant people.....
A little quick playing that card for someone from Vegas! Moderator: That's a serious charge (that isn't even spelled correctly!), why is it OK for such an ad hominem attack. I've read the comment guidelines and Paul gary seems to in contravention thereof!
What is the justification for giving Israel US weapons merely to increase its current massive power relative to any possible adversary? Its nuclear arsenal is the largest in the middle east. There are no Arab armies massed on its borders. The weapons the US intends to give Israel will do nothing to combat terrorist attacks on Israelis, which is the real problem facing Israel. Far more likely to help resolve the Israeli-Arab-Muslim conflict would be for the US to reduce substantially the military aid it provides to Israel rather than increase it. Giving Israel practically everything it wants in weaponry is either a bribe for its acceptance of the treaty with Iran (won't work) or an effort to reduce the political fallout from the treaty in the US (unnecessary -- most Americans support the treaty already). So long as Israel can get whatever it wants from the US, there is no hope of creating some kind of reasonable order in the middle east.
16
It is important not to confuse The State of Israel with Benjamin Netanyahu and AIPAC both of whom represent minority positions.
The United States is challenged to maintain a delicate ballance that at one time contains Iran while keeping Israel safe. All in the context of a 62 year war with no end in sight.
This is not a question of tax dollars or the prolifieration and possible use of extreme weaponry.
To strike this ballance requiers a coherent strategy to achieve some semblance of peace in the Middle East which Congress seems unable to form. "If you don't know where you are going any road will lead you."
This is what the American people shold demand of Congress and the State Department. If not in 38 years we will be talking about a 100 year War.
The United States is challenged to maintain a delicate ballance that at one time contains Iran while keeping Israel safe. All in the context of a 62 year war with no end in sight.
This is not a question of tax dollars or the prolifieration and possible use of extreme weaponry.
To strike this ballance requiers a coherent strategy to achieve some semblance of peace in the Middle East which Congress seems unable to form. "If you don't know where you are going any road will lead you."
This is what the American people shold demand of Congress and the State Department. If not in 38 years we will be talking about a 100 year War.
3
Ms. Eis, perhaps you are unaware that any number of Islamic fundamentalists, particularly the violent jihadis, speak of the 1300 year war with the infidels.
As night follows day , it was given that Israel would DEMAND more freebies and special treatment after their attempt to steer our foreign policy failed. This despite the efforts of their 5th column elements so prevalent in this country. Twenty five billion in aid since 2009 ! How much since 1946? That this arrogant country and their leaders think that the US "owes" them is a prime example of the ridiculous influence that they and their "loyalist" (that's you Sheldon , and others) have in this country. Please show me a President that will call out the 'dual loyalist 'in this country as boarder line traitors that they are. That they are not the 51 state, that their seizing of properties and brutal treatment of Arab subjects is a fascist trait that we do not support. That the Pollard agreement and decades of lies by the current Likud government since the assassination of Rabin is reason enough that we should "rethink" our rekationship with our ally. PERIOD!
18
In a nutshell, US will sell military hardware (at inflated prices) to Arabs telling them that they should fear Iran, and will turn around and give the money from the sale proceeds to Israelis telling them to shut up. That is how the business of utilizing the cash from oil sale is done.
7
As we now know, Netanyahu seriously considered bombing Iran three times over the past few years. And now the US is going to shower Israel - the most violent and aggressive state in the Middle East - with even more weaponry and more capacity to intimidate and brutalize its neighbors? Yes, the US certainly knows how to promote peace and stability and improve its image, doesn't it? Once again, the US will find itself culpable in whatever Israel decides to do with those new armaments.
16
This never ending game of security through strength cannot succeed and must end. Israel already has the ultimate deterrent, the atomic bomb. Iran an every other nation in the region would love to have such power. The don't mess with me or I will hurt you game has reached levels of potential total annihilation.
If America wants to protect Israel, then America much right the wrongs that created so much hatred for the West. America must stop supporting regimes that feed the hatred. America must stop Israel from continuing to chip away at the West Bank by building more and more settlements there. America must instead broker a permanent Palestinian solution once and for all.
The Syrian war must come to an end. Iran must stop providing support for its proxies in the region that are warring with their neighbors. Likewise, Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States must do the same.
These are the only ways to truly protect Israel. Providing them with $350 million jets is just a continuation of more of the same. Stop giving the children more dangerous toys. Make them learn how to play together. If they refuse, then they all deserve their fate.
If America wants to protect Israel, then America much right the wrongs that created so much hatred for the West. America must stop supporting regimes that feed the hatred. America must stop Israel from continuing to chip away at the West Bank by building more and more settlements there. America must instead broker a permanent Palestinian solution once and for all.
The Syrian war must come to an end. Iran must stop providing support for its proxies in the region that are warring with their neighbors. Likewise, Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States must do the same.
These are the only ways to truly protect Israel. Providing them with $350 million jets is just a continuation of more of the same. Stop giving the children more dangerous toys. Make them learn how to play together. If they refuse, then they all deserve their fate.
16
"America must instead broker a permanent Palestinian solution once and for all."
Clinton Parameters and Kerry Plan.
Clinton Parameters and Kerry Plan.
It is the Palestinians who are refusing to negotiate, not Israel. Why are the Republican's blamed for polarizing the debate? It takes two poles to have polarization. There wouldn't have been such a dispute if Israel would have had its own seat at the negotiations. Not acceptable to Iran? The world should not accept as legitimize Iran's non-recognition of Israel's right to exist.
2
Continuing to arm this right wing Israeli government makes an already belligerent government even more so. Give them more weapons; they will use them; then we will be called upon to defend them against the inevitable response.
Israel is said to be our "ally". I understand the many billions of dollars and the worldwide political support they get from us. But just what do we get from them? Much of the world despises us for our support of Israel.
We could do some good by advocating for a nuclear free zone for the middle east.
Israel is said to be our "ally". I understand the many billions of dollars and the worldwide political support they get from us. But just what do we get from them? Much of the world despises us for our support of Israel.
We could do some good by advocating for a nuclear free zone for the middle east.
13
This is a very dangerous idea.
Obviously the massive bombs will need to be supplied with a strategic long range bomber as a delivery vehicle, likely supersonic B1B. This surely will infuriate Russians to supply Iran with suitable deadly anti aircraft missile system. These vicious cycle of arms race will do no good at all to the region.
Obama stands to fritter away enormous gains made for the peace merely for the sake of satisfying maniacal ego of the war monger Republicans and Israeli hawks. Shame on Obama for buckling to the unreasonable domestic critics.
The revealing unpleasant truth is we non Americans simply do not understand the country. Looking at it from outside we see a political system in the hands of big armament industry and its lobbyists. There are no checks and balances, only a perverse mix of irresponsibility, greed dominate the political space.
Obviously the massive bombs will need to be supplied with a strategic long range bomber as a delivery vehicle, likely supersonic B1B. This surely will infuriate Russians to supply Iran with suitable deadly anti aircraft missile system. These vicious cycle of arms race will do no good at all to the region.
Obama stands to fritter away enormous gains made for the peace merely for the sake of satisfying maniacal ego of the war monger Republicans and Israeli hawks. Shame on Obama for buckling to the unreasonable domestic critics.
The revealing unpleasant truth is we non Americans simply do not understand the country. Looking at it from outside we see a political system in the hands of big armament industry and its lobbyists. There are no checks and balances, only a perverse mix of irresponsibility, greed dominate the political space.
10
You understand it perfectly, it IS a vicious cycle with no end in sight.
Similar to communist, the American people have no say so about any of this, the political system in the U.S. originally had good intentions to keep each party in check, that system is long gone and no longer has the well being of it's citizens as a priority. I'm not saying that Americans have no freedoms, they just don't have any control over it's elected official's policies and decisions.
Similar to communist, the American people have no say so about any of this, the political system in the U.S. originally had good intentions to keep each party in check, that system is long gone and no longer has the well being of it's citizens as a priority. I'm not saying that Americans have no freedoms, they just don't have any control over it's elected official's policies and decisions.
1
Much of the chaos and violence in the Middle East today is a direct outcome of the American neocon faction, largely concerned with Israel who drove us to the invasion of Iraq. President Obama's diplomatic efforts are opposed by that same cadre of neocons who oppose the Iran Nuclear Agreement. It is outrageous to shape our part in this Agreement with concern for Israel who harbors hundreds of nuclear weapons. Nor should we increase weapons aid. Israel is not the fifty first state. It is we understand and address that.
17
"largely concerned with Israel who drove us to the invasion of Iraq."
It is a fact that, in 2002-2003, the then-Prime Minister of Israel, Ariel Sharon, and his security team, told US officials to focus on Iran, not Iraq, as the greater threat.
It is a fact that, in 2002-2003, the then-Prime Minister of Israel, Ariel Sharon, and his security team, told US officials to focus on Iran, not Iraq, as the greater threat.
Israel makes efforts to humiliate our President and interfere with our political processes, acts contrarily to our interests, and (as a nuclear power) fosters discord in the Mid-East (although certainly not the only one to do so), and we "reward" it with massive military and economic assistance.
Let's change policies. If Israel wants to be a country with nuclear weapons, dictating its own contrarian course, and thumbing its nose at the US, let it finance these ignoble objectives wholly on its own.
Let's change policies. If Israel wants to be a country with nuclear weapons, dictating its own contrarian course, and thumbing its nose at the US, let it finance these ignoble objectives wholly on its own.
25
You need to study some history as well as the current situation.
Also, having an anti-semetic President who compares ISIS with Christians and Jews from the middle ages hasn't helped. Giving Iran the tools to succeed so to speak will haunt the world. Glad I won't be around to see it.
The President has zero relationships with any of our partners and friends. He has an agenda that, once out of office. the public will find out about and cringe.
Also, having an anti-semetic President who compares ISIS with Christians and Jews from the middle ages hasn't helped. Giving Iran the tools to succeed so to speak will haunt the world. Glad I won't be around to see it.
The President has zero relationships with any of our partners and friends. He has an agenda that, once out of office. the public will find out about and cringe.
What more, exactly, does Israel require of us? They shamelessly accept our treasure while at the same time encouraging our dishonor and complicity in their illegal annexation of others' lands. Treachery is usually planned behind one's back; under Bibi, however, he's been quite upfront about his knavery. President Obama could make no promise to Israel that they would accept except our capitulation to all their demands about this deal or any other issue. The House of Saud needs to demonstrate something like responsible accountability, too. They are not innocents in this matter. Why do these two particular American benefactors shirk a moral duty to do some heavy lifting? Congress needs to understand who sent them to Washington, and it wasn't Bibi or the Saudis. Or was it?
17
Duel citizenship of many decision making employees in our government makes for a very interesting situation......almost one government for both countries, I cannot imagine how it can actually work without bias entering the process
7
Who has dual (note the spelling) citizenship in our government?
"What America must do to reassure Israel..."
You lost me at the first sentence. Am I the only one who's grown tired of this pretense that the United States is, in one way or another, beholden to Israel and its increasingly authoritarian leaders now that we have defied their position on Iran? Israel is already, by far, the largest recipient of American foreign aid, despite its claims to be the most open and prosperous nation in the Middle East (not to mention the only nuclear state in the region, and by far the most powerful militarily). Israel is "owed" nothing more than we owe our other allies -- who, it's worth mentioning, now shoulder the burden of a truly massive refugee crisis as a result of the unending chaos in the Middle East.
Perhaps it is time to turn that question around -- what can Israel do to reassure America that it is a loyal and worthy ally? Netanyahu has meddled in the domestic affairs of a sovereign nation for the better part of a decade, yet he repels any effort to dismantle what any reasonable observer would conclude is a modern apartheid state; our tacit support for this policy is, without question, the largest source of anti-Americanism in the Muslim world. Rather than snubbing its American allies while simultaneously using our veto power in the UN to defy the nearly-unanimous criticism of the international community, perhaps Israel should return to the negotiating table. Their continued belligerence is a national security liability for America.
You lost me at the first sentence. Am I the only one who's grown tired of this pretense that the United States is, in one way or another, beholden to Israel and its increasingly authoritarian leaders now that we have defied their position on Iran? Israel is already, by far, the largest recipient of American foreign aid, despite its claims to be the most open and prosperous nation in the Middle East (not to mention the only nuclear state in the region, and by far the most powerful militarily). Israel is "owed" nothing more than we owe our other allies -- who, it's worth mentioning, now shoulder the burden of a truly massive refugee crisis as a result of the unending chaos in the Middle East.
Perhaps it is time to turn that question around -- what can Israel do to reassure America that it is a loyal and worthy ally? Netanyahu has meddled in the domestic affairs of a sovereign nation for the better part of a decade, yet he repels any effort to dismantle what any reasonable observer would conclude is a modern apartheid state; our tacit support for this policy is, without question, the largest source of anti-Americanism in the Muslim world. Rather than snubbing its American allies while simultaneously using our veto power in the UN to defy the nearly-unanimous criticism of the international community, perhaps Israel should return to the negotiating table. Their continued belligerence is a national security liability for America.
19
Israel and Russia have already completed high level talks to ensure that the Russian build up in Syria will not pose a threat to Israeli security. The Russians as well as the Iranians would not be well served to undermine Israel's safety & security in the region, as the global community would be turned against them. Iran is attempting to emerge again as a responsible member of the global community and thus would lose its fragile allegiance with the US & its allies which are allowing Iran to exert military might into Iraq. As long as Israel isn't engaging in any military aggression against its neighbors or bombing its own people in Gaza, there is little concern about Iran funding a war to defend the Palestinians. If the US decides to initiate a heavy buildup inside nuclear armed Israel, this action could be misconstrued as an offensive threat against its neighbors including Russian fortified Syria which would only heighten security concerns in the region. If, on the other hand, Russia is able to win the battle against ISIS in Syria with the help of the Iranians and secure a safe and stable country for its citizens, the threat against Israel will be diminished considerably. It is time for Israel to begin to extend a hand of friendship with its neighbors as it expects Iran to do in kind, in order to stabilize the region and bring about a peaceful detente.
1
This is Syria, right? You do realized that they have never been willing to declare peace with Israel? The reason Israel is sitting on the Golan heights and won't give them back is they were shelled from there. All Israel has ever asked of Lebanon and Syria was to STOP SHELLING. They never have done that.
Why don't we build a buffer state of Christians who have been displaced by ISIS in Sourthern Syria? It won't solve the problem of the long range missiles, but since they have been treated brutally, maybe they would be willing to be peaceful partners.
Why don't we build a buffer state of Christians who have been displaced by ISIS in Sourthern Syria? It won't solve the problem of the long range missiles, but since they have been treated brutally, maybe they would be willing to be peaceful partners.
1
" those increases come at a time of strict limits on federal spending and will undoubtedly require cuts in other programs."
Enough is enough. Let Israel cut its own programs. With our own citizenry suffering massively from the effects of floods, tornadoes, droughts and forest fires, this is hardly the time to be diverting our resources to make things easier for Israelis and tougher for Americans. Let's start taking better care of number one. It's way past time for Israel to stand on its own. It will continue to exploit the American taxpayers as long as we let it.
Enough is enough. Let Israel cut its own programs. With our own citizenry suffering massively from the effects of floods, tornadoes, droughts and forest fires, this is hardly the time to be diverting our resources to make things easier for Israelis and tougher for Americans. Let's start taking better care of number one. It's way past time for Israel to stand on its own. It will continue to exploit the American taxpayers as long as we let it.
11
While the huge bombs are undoubtedly too much we should keep in mind other factors. Yes, Netanyahu has tried to influence Congress, but the U.S. has tried to influence the actions of the Israeli govt. for decades. More importantly, we should remember that it is not Israel that is opposed to the existence of the Arab nations and has threatened their eradication. It is the Arab nations that deny the right of Israel to exist and threatens her total destruction. No matter what the world does, if Iran wants nuclear weaponry, they will get it. Maybe not for 10 years, but eventually. When that day comes we should all be glad that Israel exists and can maintain the balance of power in the Middle East.
I think it is time for a much more clear-eyed and hard-heaed view of our relations to Israel. We do not have an obligation for Israels security any more than for Rwanda's or Kirghistan's; that we have a responsibility is a foreign policy paradigm that has lasted for over half a century and is in dire need for revision. Israel's government has that responsibility, not the US government. Further, a country that openly wants us to spill blood and treasure on their behalf, while lobbying against the elected president of this country, should inspire outrage, not receive any special consideration. None of the actors in the Middle east are white knights, and those condemning Iranian support for terrorism the loudest fail to remember that Israel during its early years was an ardent practitioner of terrorism itself, with none other than the late prime minister Begin in a leading role. Though what is happening now in the occupied territories is indeed not state-sponsored terrorism, - the charge leveled against Iran-, but simply terrorism by the state. Every other description of holding a civilian population hostage all the while expanding the occupation is a euphemism. Contrary to keeping engaged, for the simple reason that's what we have always been doing, we should leave the region to its own devices, and the sooner the better.
11
I think this is particularly true since Netanyahu has jumped in bed with the Russians a couple of times recently. Not voting to support condemnation of Russia's Crimea grab and the recent arrangement with Russia in Syria. I have never understood where the claim that Israel is an ally comes from. Portugal was in Afghanistan, I can't think of one occasion Israel has done anything for the US. I don't suggest taking action against Israel but to simply treat it the same way the US treats other countries. Support it when it is right and condemn it when it breaks international law, not subsidize it.
"America has a responsibility to help ensure the security of Israel and the gulf allies"
This is true. The first step to ensuring the security of the people of Israel is to immediately halt all military "aid" to the State of Israel. Note the distinction.
Firstly, because it's already illegal. US law prohibits military funding of nuclear weapons states (which the State of Israel is) that don't abide by international nonproliferation agreements (which the State of Israel doesn't). Sidebar: US military funding for India and Pakistan is equally illegal.
Secondly, what the government of the State of Israel does with our weapons is commit war crimes and crimes against humanity, with our complicity. That makes both the people of Israel and the people of the US less safe, not more. The State of Israel and Saudi Arabia are bad actors, much like Iran. Yet the State of Israel and Saudi Arabia get free passes for their international terrorism and religious oppression because...reasons?
The State of Israel is not our ally. Allies act in each other's interests. The State of Israel acts against our interests (and the interests of its own people). Netanyahu is not our friend. The Apartheid State of Israel is not a democracy. The State of Israel will not be a democracy until and unless Palestinians have equal rights, either as citizens of their own state, or of the State of Israel. The State of Israel will not nevotiate a peace settlement until we stop rewarding it for its belligerence.
This is true. The first step to ensuring the security of the people of Israel is to immediately halt all military "aid" to the State of Israel. Note the distinction.
Firstly, because it's already illegal. US law prohibits military funding of nuclear weapons states (which the State of Israel is) that don't abide by international nonproliferation agreements (which the State of Israel doesn't). Sidebar: US military funding for India and Pakistan is equally illegal.
Secondly, what the government of the State of Israel does with our weapons is commit war crimes and crimes against humanity, with our complicity. That makes both the people of Israel and the people of the US less safe, not more. The State of Israel and Saudi Arabia are bad actors, much like Iran. Yet the State of Israel and Saudi Arabia get free passes for their international terrorism and religious oppression because...reasons?
The State of Israel is not our ally. Allies act in each other's interests. The State of Israel acts against our interests (and the interests of its own people). Netanyahu is not our friend. The Apartheid State of Israel is not a democracy. The State of Israel will not be a democracy until and unless Palestinians have equal rights, either as citizens of their own state, or of the State of Israel. The State of Israel will not nevotiate a peace settlement until we stop rewarding it for its belligerence.
17
Does any rational human being not see that whatever MOP either the USA or Israel dropped on Iran would mean war with Iran? Are we to think that either country could act with impunity after an act of war? Does anyone consider the consequences of war with Iran to the security and economic well being of the USA?
The sooner Israel wakes up to the consequences of being an apartheid state with a growing population of Jewish citizens that not only do not serve in the military, do not work and seek to impose their religious views on the rest of the population the safer Israel will be.
The sooner Israel wakes up to the consequences of being an apartheid state with a growing population of Jewish citizens that not only do not serve in the military, do not work and seek to impose their religious views on the rest of the population the safer Israel will be.
11
Your editorial is completely lopsided. Yes Obama promised the smaller bunker busting bombs over a year ago...where are they? Mr. Obama has repeatedly said he wouldn't let Iran have a nuclear weapon. He has also said that he would not allow the Russians to bully its neighbors and that the use of WMD in Syria would be a redline. So we should trust him now? Meanwhile Iran is funneling its new found billions to Hizbullah which ultimately will lead to war with Israel.
Yes, the billions of dollars in aid for Israel has helped the Jewish state's defense but it has also provided tens of thousands of jobs for Americans as most of the aid must be spent in America. The Israel developed anti-missile system is now deployed by US forces and has already saved numerous American lives and will continue to do so in the future. US military aid to Israel is a two way street. The F-35 fighter is already obsolete. Israel is buying it due to US pressure not the other way around (JOBS). Much of the F-35's technology is Israeli developed anyway.
Lastly, it is the Palestinians who will not talk peace with Israelis. Our PM just two days ago said he was willing to talk peace with Mahmoud Abbas anytime, anywhere. Why should Abbas negotiate in good faith when the EU and Obama give him everything he wants anyway?
Stop blaming the Jews already. Its becoming passe'.
Yes, the billions of dollars in aid for Israel has helped the Jewish state's defense but it has also provided tens of thousands of jobs for Americans as most of the aid must be spent in America. The Israel developed anti-missile system is now deployed by US forces and has already saved numerous American lives and will continue to do so in the future. US military aid to Israel is a two way street. The F-35 fighter is already obsolete. Israel is buying it due to US pressure not the other way around (JOBS). Much of the F-35's technology is Israeli developed anyway.
Lastly, it is the Palestinians who will not talk peace with Israelis. Our PM just two days ago said he was willing to talk peace with Mahmoud Abbas anytime, anywhere. Why should Abbas negotiate in good faith when the EU and Obama give him everything he wants anyway?
Stop blaming the Jews already. Its becoming passe'.
4
The first thing Israel must to for it's security is end the occupation of Palestinians. We don't see any effort or interest in that direction by the Netanyahu right wing government.
Why should we be groveling to make amends with Israel for the Iran deal by giving them more weapons? Israel will never feel secure even as it does not with it's own nuclear arsenal as it claims that Iran ( which it threatens) should not have one.
Tax dollars are being taken awayfrom other programs that we sorely need to be spending on that are going to be cut as a result.
There are clues in those facts as to how we should be behaving.
Why should we be groveling to make amends with Israel for the Iran deal by giving them more weapons? Israel will never feel secure even as it does not with it's own nuclear arsenal as it claims that Iran ( which it threatens) should not have one.
Tax dollars are being taken awayfrom other programs that we sorely need to be spending on that are going to be cut as a result.
There are clues in those facts as to how we should be behaving.
14
"The focus on America’s obligations often ignores the responsibility Israel and the gulf states have for regional security. Saudi Arabia shares much blame for the rise of extremist groups, while Israel undermines stability by failing to negotiate peace with the Palestinians."
Truer words could not be spoken, other than the phrase "America's obligations." America has no obligations; that is a myth foisted on the American public by supporters of a militant Israel. The American public has been footing the bill for Israel's soul-crushing occupation, her theft, her brutality and her expansionist aspirations for decades, and it's immoral. And Saudi Arabia, a state that predicates itself on elitism and sexism, exploits fanaticism and exports terrorism is no less culpable for the continued decay of the region.
We should not be arming any state in the Middle East, particularly Israel. We as Americans have become slaves to both ME oil and Israel; funding appalling conduct as we have been subjugated into supporting Israel interests above our own, forced to ignore even the most basic ethical concerns. It must stop. We should not be handing Israel billions while she preys on Palestinians. In fact, we should not be handing her money at all. And we can do without Saudi oil if the best she can do is nurture hostility in the form of violent Islamic extremism.
Truer words could not be spoken, other than the phrase "America's obligations." America has no obligations; that is a myth foisted on the American public by supporters of a militant Israel. The American public has been footing the bill for Israel's soul-crushing occupation, her theft, her brutality and her expansionist aspirations for decades, and it's immoral. And Saudi Arabia, a state that predicates itself on elitism and sexism, exploits fanaticism and exports terrorism is no less culpable for the continued decay of the region.
We should not be arming any state in the Middle East, particularly Israel. We as Americans have become slaves to both ME oil and Israel; funding appalling conduct as we have been subjugated into supporting Israel interests above our own, forced to ignore even the most basic ethical concerns. It must stop. We should not be handing Israel billions while she preys on Palestinians. In fact, we should not be handing her money at all. And we can do without Saudi oil if the best she can do is nurture hostility in the form of violent Islamic extremism.
28
So America has to apologize to ("reassure") Israel because a US administration dared to pursue a deal that is in America's interest?
Who is the real superpower? Why does America belittle itself in this relationship with Israel. No self-respecting country would tolerate Israeli interference in its politics the way America does.
The burden should be on Israel to prove it still deserves America's trust and already over-generous support, given its brazen intrusion in US politics.
Who is the real superpower? Why does America belittle itself in this relationship with Israel. No self-respecting country would tolerate Israeli interference in its politics the way America does.
The burden should be on Israel to prove it still deserves America's trust and already over-generous support, given its brazen intrusion in US politics.
42
It's long past time for the US to start disengaging from our married relationship with Israel. Israel has shown itself to be part of the military complex, with little regard for life or peace. It's all quite ironic given it's reasons for existing, but obviously that was the past and now is now.
As for the do nothing GOP who vow to undo this 'multi' national agreement - they need to stop collecting a paycheck and go home - permanently!
As for the do nothing GOP who vow to undo this 'multi' national agreement - they need to stop collecting a paycheck and go home - permanently!
11
To all those on here that complain about lack of negotiation partner, history and defend Bibi, wake up. Its in Israel vital long term interest to figure out a solution to the Palestine question. This isn't a case of Egypt, where a brave foreign leader is going to come to Israel. At this point this is domestic issue that Israel will have to be creative in its thinking and willing to take on some short term pain in order to secure its long term viability as a democratic Jewish state. If you are complaining about why their isn't peace, you are missing the point and stuck in an old way of thinking. What do you think Israel's future is if you stick with the status quo?
7
Israel is the top aid recipient from the United States having received over $25 billion in military aid from the United States and has a stockpile of over 200 nuclear warheads.
And all we get in return is more carping from Bibi who wants to interfere and topple this administration. Any country that tried to interfere with America's internal affairs would have been told firmly to back off, and yet all we hear from Israel is how shabbily they have been treated by the United States.
I think we have many better things to do, like building our crumbling bridges and roads and supporting school teachers, with the $25 billion.
And all we get in return is more carping from Bibi who wants to interfere and topple this administration. Any country that tried to interfere with America's internal affairs would have been told firmly to back off, and yet all we hear from Israel is how shabbily they have been treated by the United States.
I think we have many better things to do, like building our crumbling bridges and roads and supporting school teachers, with the $25 billion.
35
It is time to reboot our relationship with Israel. It is all give and no return for the U.S. Israel is the greatest threat to peace in the Middle East. They have no interest in negotiating any kind of agreement that would allow a Palestinian state. They have alienated most of their former friends in Europe, and are hated throughout their own region. At a minimum, some change in behavior should be required before we give them more aid. Netanyahu is a clear and present danger to world peace. We should make it clear that our support for Israel is not support for Netanyahu. He went to bed with Boehner, now let him reap the consequences. Israel is more like a dependent child than an ally.
35
Twenty five billion in aid since 2009? Why??? When did Israel become the 51st state. No wonder why Bibi feels entitled to speak in congress and complain about the US President. So, the US supplies more per capita aid to Israelis than US citizens. No wonder they are the most bellicose nation in the Middle East.
35
What does Israel give the U.S. in return for the military aid we give it now? What will Israel give the U.S. in return for the increased military aid the President and Congress seem eager to give Israel now and in the future? That Israel and its supporters will dampen their criticisms of and efforts to sway U.S. foreign policy?
There is one thing Israel has never given the U.S. in return for U.S. military aid. And that is Israeli foreign and domestic policies that would lead toward peace in the Middle East, both for the U.S. and for Israel.
In effect, the U.S. supplies Israel with military aid in tacit support of Israeli political decisions, not necessarily in support of Israeli expediencies. Pro-Israeli lobbyists, at least up until the Iran deal, have strived to present at least the appearance of non-partisan support for Israel in the U.S. Why does the U.S. effectively display partisan support for certain Israeli factions.
If the U.S. is committed to support a Jewish state in the Middle East, the U.S. should support a state that adheres to Jewish values, not the political leanings of just certain Jews - either in Israel or in the U.S. That is the way to preserve a Jewish state. To do otherwise may serve to protect a Zionist state. But paradoxically, a Zionist state may not turn out to be a Jewish state.
There is one thing Israel has never given the U.S. in return for U.S. military aid. And that is Israeli foreign and domestic policies that would lead toward peace in the Middle East, both for the U.S. and for Israel.
In effect, the U.S. supplies Israel with military aid in tacit support of Israeli political decisions, not necessarily in support of Israeli expediencies. Pro-Israeli lobbyists, at least up until the Iran deal, have strived to present at least the appearance of non-partisan support for Israel in the U.S. Why does the U.S. effectively display partisan support for certain Israeli factions.
If the U.S. is committed to support a Jewish state in the Middle East, the U.S. should support a state that adheres to Jewish values, not the political leanings of just certain Jews - either in Israel or in the U.S. That is the way to preserve a Jewish state. To do otherwise may serve to protect a Zionist state. But paradoxically, a Zionist state may not turn out to be a Jewish state.
16
The hope is that Iran will eventually curb their belligerence once they see that trade deals that they make with the west are threatened. This is the gamble. We can only put the olive branch out there.
2
America does not need nor deserve allies that use American arms along with diplomatic and financial support to deny people under their dominion the universal divine natural equal certain unalienable rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. America is the super power senior party in the relationship between Israel and the Arab states. What America needs are allies that steer more towards civil secular plural egalitarian democracy by diplomacy, commerce and humanitarian aid.
But for the fact that 40% of the world's 16 million Jews live in America and humanitarian concerns, the existence of Israel as a Zionist Jewish state does not involve any American interests. Indeed, Israel is a tiny socioeconomic and educational problem but a major diplomatic, political, military and moral liability. By defining itself by it's theological and cultural Jewish heritage, Israel is no more a democracy than were slave and Jim Crow era and apartheid South Africa. With it's nuclear weapons arsenal, state sponsored terrorism and the Jim Crow colonial apartheid oppression of Palestinians Israel reigns and rules as an outlier axis of evil.
Israel must declare and renounce it's nukes. Israel must give the 6 million Christian Muslim Arab Palestinians under it's dominion all of their natural normal human rights. The Sunni Muslim Arab secular and royal theocratic dictator and autocrat states who breed terrorism should do likewise. They deserve humanitarian aid but arms should be cut.
But for the fact that 40% of the world's 16 million Jews live in America and humanitarian concerns, the existence of Israel as a Zionist Jewish state does not involve any American interests. Indeed, Israel is a tiny socioeconomic and educational problem but a major diplomatic, political, military and moral liability. By defining itself by it's theological and cultural Jewish heritage, Israel is no more a democracy than were slave and Jim Crow era and apartheid South Africa. With it's nuclear weapons arsenal, state sponsored terrorism and the Jim Crow colonial apartheid oppression of Palestinians Israel reigns and rules as an outlier axis of evil.
Israel must declare and renounce it's nukes. Israel must give the 6 million Christian Muslim Arab Palestinians under it's dominion all of their natural normal human rights. The Sunni Muslim Arab secular and royal theocratic dictator and autocrat states who breed terrorism should do likewise. They deserve humanitarian aid but arms should be cut.
32
A reasonable editorial, but it it proposes no solution to our greatest problem regarding our bilateral relations with Israel and all other countries: our political system is thoroughly corrupted by money. As long as money is considered "speech," the NRA, AIPAC, and other lobbies will own our politicians and use them to further their special interests--which rarely correspond with the best interests and the common good of the US.
22
As long as Bibi treats our president as an enemy Israel should not be rewarded with doodley-squat. The time has come for Israel to acknowledge that America has spent its wealth and youth defending Israeli policies and practices that do not further any American objectives.
This ungrateful nation ought to keep in mind that without America it would be the smallest freaking province of Saudi Arabia...It is time for Israel to decide exactly which side of history it is going to be on. In doing so, she might want to remember that history is written by the winners...
This ungrateful nation ought to keep in mind that without America it would be the smallest freaking province of Saudi Arabia...It is time for Israel to decide exactly which side of history it is going to be on. In doing so, she might want to remember that history is written by the winners...
34
Without the billions of US dollars given to Israel for their defense, Israel would have greater incentive to find peaceful solutions for coexistence; and then we would have that money to fix our roads and bridges, maybe even schools. The largest obstacle would be weaning defense contractors from their beloved teat. .
32
It seems to me that now is the right time for the US to establish three principles of a partly new Mideast policy: 1) an absolute commitment to Israel's security, as exemplified by continued arms supply in line with what is proposed in this editorial; 2) publicly expressed disapproval of Israel's conquests, aka the settlements, by voting in the UN against the settlements, with the ultimate threat of supporting a boycott of settlement products; 3) insistence that the Palestinians formally and publicly renounce all but at most a token right of return, as a precondition for US support of the end to occupation and the formation of a West Bank Palestinian with East Jerusalem as its capitol but with Israeli control of the Jewish holy sites.
1
If you and your family was forced out of your homes, parts of your family killed, and more than 450 villages and towns in your former home were destroyed and another people built upon those ashes, would you "renounce" your right to return?"
Of course not, stop blaming the victims. Israel should be cut off at the knees for ruining America's foreign policy in the Middle East.
UNGA 194 exists because Israel Ethnically Cleansed nearly a million Palestinians from their homes at it's birth. They have never paid for this even as the United States has invaded Middle East nations for far less and even President Truman, the POTUS that recognized the brand new Israel, warned them about this.
Cut them off, that was what President Truman told David Ben-Gurion in 1949, that's how long this reassessment of US policy has gone on. It's time to end the madness. Cut them off, they are a rich country, they can buy their weapons they use to kill innocent Palestinian women and children somewhere else. American Jews must get shut of this lest we all be eventually be blamed for Israel's slow genocide of the Palestinian people.
Never Again means Never Again for ALL.
Of course not, stop blaming the victims. Israel should be cut off at the knees for ruining America's foreign policy in the Middle East.
UNGA 194 exists because Israel Ethnically Cleansed nearly a million Palestinians from their homes at it's birth. They have never paid for this even as the United States has invaded Middle East nations for far less and even President Truman, the POTUS that recognized the brand new Israel, warned them about this.
Cut them off, that was what President Truman told David Ben-Gurion in 1949, that's how long this reassessment of US policy has gone on. It's time to end the madness. Cut them off, they are a rich country, they can buy their weapons they use to kill innocent Palestinian women and children somewhere else. American Jews must get shut of this lest we all be eventually be blamed for Israel's slow genocide of the Palestinian people.
Never Again means Never Again for ALL.
"One dubious proposal would have the United States provide Israel with a massive ordnance penetrator, or MOP, a 30,000-pound bomb that could do serious damage to Fordo, the Iranian enrichment facility built into a mountain."
The proposal to provide Israel with the MOP is not dubious. It is outright dangerous and irresponsible.
The MOP is an offensive weapon. If the use of an MOP is necessary, the U.S. can deliver that weapon just as swiftly as Israel can. But to give the MOP to Israel is to hand Israel the option to make the decision to use the MOP. And if Israel does, the U.S. is automatically on the brink of war in Iran, if not over the brink.
Effectively, handing Israel the MOP gives Israel the right to determine U.S. foreign policy, and the right to issue a U.S. declaration of war. As it is, the U.S. Congress refuses to assume its own Constitutional authority and obligation to authorize war in the Middle East, most specifically against ISIS. To give Israel the MOP is to move Congressional war-authorizing responsibility even further from the U.S., and into the hands of a foreign entity.
The authorization to go to war should rest solely with Congress. The decision to go to war should rest solely with the President. Or is this another little Constitutional detail that certain Federal elected officials would like to tacitly tear up?
The proposal to provide Israel with the MOP is not dubious. It is outright dangerous and irresponsible.
The MOP is an offensive weapon. If the use of an MOP is necessary, the U.S. can deliver that weapon just as swiftly as Israel can. But to give the MOP to Israel is to hand Israel the option to make the decision to use the MOP. And if Israel does, the U.S. is automatically on the brink of war in Iran, if not over the brink.
Effectively, handing Israel the MOP gives Israel the right to determine U.S. foreign policy, and the right to issue a U.S. declaration of war. As it is, the U.S. Congress refuses to assume its own Constitutional authority and obligation to authorize war in the Middle East, most specifically against ISIS. To give Israel the MOP is to move Congressional war-authorizing responsibility even further from the U.S., and into the hands of a foreign entity.
The authorization to go to war should rest solely with Congress. The decision to go to war should rest solely with the President. Or is this another little Constitutional detail that certain Federal elected officials would like to tacitly tear up?
13
This is another in a long series of editorials and commentaries which steadfastly ignore the elephant in the room. I suggest, for starters, that you read more carefully what your own columnist, Tom Friedman had to say in his piece yesterday about the ties between Netanyahu and the assassins of Rabin. The United States has been coddling and supporting this fanatic of an Israeli prime minister for far too many years. There is no "trust" to restore between America and such a hard-core Greater Israel extremist.
14
This is getting so, so old. Sanctions or inspections? Happy Israel, sad Israel. Netanyahu friend or enemy. I would feel a lot better about all this if Netanyahu had not gone before Congress. I would also feel a lot better about it if I trusted Iran one iota.
These are not the best of times. I say thank God we have such an intelligent group of Republican candidates vying to lead us out of it all.
Yikes!
These are not the best of times. I say thank God we have such an intelligent group of Republican candidates vying to lead us out of it all.
Yikes!
2
I recommend your appropriate sarcasm.
Just exactly what the doctor ordered: more weapons in the middle east. This is a wise move by a country that has a proven track record of success in the middle east, including being welcomed as liberators (of oil contracts) in Iraq, ignoring Assad's atrocities, creating ISIS, pampering the "democratic" theocracy of Israel. I wonder if the USA secretly gives Israel chemical and biological weapons.
9
The lack of water resources will constrain Iran almost more than the nuclear agreement. I worry more about Israel being surrounded by failed states. The centrifugal force if Egypt ever imploded would be much worse than Syria.
1
The Board makes two key points. Iran now has billions of dollars to expand its use of proxies like Hezbollah to cause problems in the region and Israel and the Arab gulf states believe their security has been put at risk. It is likely, therefore, they will take risky measures to secure the balance of power in the region. I would not look for them to be overly concerned about their relations with the current administration anytime soon. They have bigger worries, thanks to the President.
1
"Thanks to the President." What a crazy comment. I see you completely ignore that Israel was built on terror and assassination of high officials and British regulars. It's as if the nearly fifty year illegal occupation of Palestine escaped your notice. It's gone on as long as President Obama has been alive, he had nothing to do with it.
Our nation let Israel become an Apartheid State through the inertia of using Israel as a forward operating base during the Cold War. Otherwise that little non-democracy would have zero value to the United States at all.
American Jews do not support crimes against humanity, and this Israel is and had been for decades.
Our nation let Israel become an Apartheid State through the inertia of using Israel as a forward operating base during the Cold War. Otherwise that little non-democracy would have zero value to the United States at all.
American Jews do not support crimes against humanity, and this Israel is and had been for decades.
It looks like Republicans and Democrats try to out do each other when it comes to Israel. We owe none of these countries anything. They should learn to live in their neighborhood. Our support has only embolden them to act out, which helps no one. So I repeat, don't fleece us tax payers so that you can get some votes in the next election, we owe them nothing.
10
We are tired of wars. We need to give peace a chance.
7
Israel should join NATO since it is now on the front lines, along with the baltic
states and Western Ukraine, of Post - Post Soviet Union foreign policy. Russia's new cold war has a branch office in Syria.
states and Western Ukraine, of Post - Post Soviet Union foreign policy. Russia's new cold war has a branch office in Syria.
Israel must participate in bringing peace to the Middle East by serious peace negotiations with the Palestinians. Regional peace hinges on recreating a Palestinian homeland with autonomous self rule.
8
As long as Netanyahu and Likud rule Israel, the United States should not give any aid, financially or militarily. Their recent actions show they don't deserve it. And as for Chuck Schumer putting Israeli security ahead of United States security, he has disqualified himself for any leadership role.
12
We have fought a battle of "Much Ado About Nothing" in this century upon the tribal imperative: that Iran be forced by threats of war, and sanctions to not enjoy the benefits of a full cycle non fissile nuclear program to which Iran is entitled by the Non Proliferation Treaty.
The entire point of Iran's nuclear program was consistent with the Eisenhower Era notion of atoms for peace, and the Shah of Iran wanted to curb domestic consumption of fossil fuels by developing a full cycle nuclear energy producing capability in order to export Persian oil into lucrative world markets. The Shah also recognized at the time of the programs inception that oil would be most valuable in the export petrochemical market, which to date no other world leader has had the sense to endorse.
Most unfortunately boneheaded regime change in Iraq imperiled the oil reserves of Sunni Saudi Arabia, which are in the Shia Crescent, at the same time that Israel made the shocking discovery that it had a minimum of 10 trillion cu ft of gas reserves just off shore, and it became imperative that Saudi Arabia and Israel ally in order to oppose Persian distribution ambitions, and ultimately to redraw the map of the M.E. to be in accord with their own plans for distribution.
All other factors in in the chaotic by design M.E. are irrelevant to this realignment of borders in the service of allied fossil fuel distribution plans, which are backed by the US. ISIS is a useful catalyst, and nothing has changed.
The entire point of Iran's nuclear program was consistent with the Eisenhower Era notion of atoms for peace, and the Shah of Iran wanted to curb domestic consumption of fossil fuels by developing a full cycle nuclear energy producing capability in order to export Persian oil into lucrative world markets. The Shah also recognized at the time of the programs inception that oil would be most valuable in the export petrochemical market, which to date no other world leader has had the sense to endorse.
Most unfortunately boneheaded regime change in Iraq imperiled the oil reserves of Sunni Saudi Arabia, which are in the Shia Crescent, at the same time that Israel made the shocking discovery that it had a minimum of 10 trillion cu ft of gas reserves just off shore, and it became imperative that Saudi Arabia and Israel ally in order to oppose Persian distribution ambitions, and ultimately to redraw the map of the M.E. to be in accord with their own plans for distribution.
All other factors in in the chaotic by design M.E. are irrelevant to this realignment of borders in the service of allied fossil fuel distribution plans, which are backed by the US. ISIS is a useful catalyst, and nothing has changed.
1
The U.S. should not provide more weapons to Israel to appease Netanyahu. Israel should replace Netanyahu with a prime minister who respects the internal politics and sovereignty of the U.S. That would go far to repair the damage Netanyahu has done to the relationship between our countries.
11
The headline continues the fashionable but false story-line that only Israel is affected by the Iran nuclear deal. The editorial more correctly identifies Israel and the US' gulf allies. It still leaves out the not irrelevant matter of the security of EU countries, the obvious targets of Iran's now restored ballistic missile program.
One of the main points in opposition to this deal was the concern that Iran would use sanctions relief to rearm and expand its several terror proxies (from Hezbollah in Lebanon to Hamas in Gaza to the Houthis in Yemen and who knows who else). Having previously dismissed that concern as "warmongering," this editorial now proposes no solution.
On the broader issue of regional stability, the usual bromide is offered: if only Israel could reach a peace agreement with the Palestinians. Given all the evidence down the decades, and given very recent poll results, that it is the Palestinians who are disinterested in any peace with the Jewish State, perhaps the Times should begin to ask the more relevant question: what can the Palestinians do to make peace achievable?
For starters, the Times might push back rather than repeat Arab propaganda denying the existence of any Jewish Temple on the Temple Mount. The recent news article stating that historical fact as only a matter of Jewish belief was beyond reprehensible and reveals the West's continued "bigotry of low expectations" that only encourages the Palestinians to double down on their rejectionism.
One of the main points in opposition to this deal was the concern that Iran would use sanctions relief to rearm and expand its several terror proxies (from Hezbollah in Lebanon to Hamas in Gaza to the Houthis in Yemen and who knows who else). Having previously dismissed that concern as "warmongering," this editorial now proposes no solution.
On the broader issue of regional stability, the usual bromide is offered: if only Israel could reach a peace agreement with the Palestinians. Given all the evidence down the decades, and given very recent poll results, that it is the Palestinians who are disinterested in any peace with the Jewish State, perhaps the Times should begin to ask the more relevant question: what can the Palestinians do to make peace achievable?
For starters, the Times might push back rather than repeat Arab propaganda denying the existence of any Jewish Temple on the Temple Mount. The recent news article stating that historical fact as only a matter of Jewish belief was beyond reprehensible and reveals the West's continued "bigotry of low expectations" that only encourages the Palestinians to double down on their rejectionism.
2
Why would you expect a people who had more than 750,000 Ethically Cleansed from their homeland, and then part of their homeland given away by international fiat, to simply lay down and surrender their nation?
It boggles the mind what some of you conjure up. I wish all of you who make these claims would have the United Nations simply carve up your locale, let Israel kill off a lot of the locals and families, and then see if you are willing to make peace with the Israeli invaders.
This is very basic. In addition to the land that Israel declared its state on according to its own declaration of independence, UNGA 181 is "irrevocable." And yet Israel revoked it all on it's own with the more than 600,000 illegal squatters it has sent into Palestine, another country, along with a brutal occupation army to enforce this travesty. There is no need to wonder why they hate us. I just told you why.
Israel was created in Palestine. It's been there for nearly 2000 years. It's time that the Israeli's start showing a little gratitude instead of gross arrogance and military occupation of an entire indigenous people. At least we Indians got and apology.
It boggles the mind what some of you conjure up. I wish all of you who make these claims would have the United Nations simply carve up your locale, let Israel kill off a lot of the locals and families, and then see if you are willing to make peace with the Israeli invaders.
This is very basic. In addition to the land that Israel declared its state on according to its own declaration of independence, UNGA 181 is "irrevocable." And yet Israel revoked it all on it's own with the more than 600,000 illegal squatters it has sent into Palestine, another country, along with a brutal occupation army to enforce this travesty. There is no need to wonder why they hate us. I just told you why.
Israel was created in Palestine. It's been there for nearly 2000 years. It's time that the Israeli's start showing a little gratitude instead of gross arrogance and military occupation of an entire indigenous people. At least we Indians got and apology.
Why is it necessary for the Times Editorial Board to take one victory lap after another about the Iran nuke deal? Obama and Kerry got what they wanted and Iran is off the table at last. It will be up to President 45 and the next Secretary of State to worry about Iranian nuclear intentions. Since when does the Times editorial board care about Israeli and American relations? As usual the Times did a great job belittling Israel. Anti-Semitism played a huge part of securing the Iran deal as Jewish organizations, especially AIPAC, were demonized and accused of bribing Congress with huge briefcases filled with cash. Ah, the oldest stereotype of Jews and money worked to perfection. Times foreign affairs columnists Roger Cohen, Nick Kristof and Tom Friedman wrote endless articles elevating Iran to the status of rock star superstardom. Times commenters are convinced that Iran can do no wrong and that every problem in the region is somehow Israel's fault.
Oh here's a myth I can debunk. Everyone's Iranian hero Mohammed Mosaddeq wasn't going to give Iran democracy. You've confused nationalism with democracy. Mosaddeq wanted to nationalize the Iranian oil industry and get rid of British control. America was concerned that Mosaddeq would become just another puppet of the Soviet Union. When Russia offered Mosaddeq a huge sum of money America freaked out. Iran was just another chess piece in the struggle between the USA and the USSR.
Oh here's a myth I can debunk. Everyone's Iranian hero Mohammed Mosaddeq wasn't going to give Iran democracy. You've confused nationalism with democracy. Mosaddeq wanted to nationalize the Iranian oil industry and get rid of British control. America was concerned that Mosaddeq would become just another puppet of the Soviet Union. When Russia offered Mosaddeq a huge sum of money America freaked out. Iran was just another chess piece in the struggle between the USA and the USSR.
1
Dear New York Times
Can you please explain what "curbs" its nuclear program means? Because if it means what I think it means, then our "regional partners" will be setting to work developing or enhancing their own nuclear capabilities. Because Iran will have its bomb in a little more than a decade. If it doesn't cheat.
And when the world wonders why every nation state in twenty years has a bomb, we will remember the moment Mr. Obama claimed that it was unacceptable for Iran to get a nuclear weapon. And then blinked.
Can you please explain what "curbs" its nuclear program means? Because if it means what I think it means, then our "regional partners" will be setting to work developing or enhancing their own nuclear capabilities. Because Iran will have its bomb in a little more than a decade. If it doesn't cheat.
And when the world wonders why every nation state in twenty years has a bomb, we will remember the moment Mr. Obama claimed that it was unacceptable for Iran to get a nuclear weapon. And then blinked.
1
Your editorial board anti-Israel bias comes clearly across. Most of the aid given to Israel comes right back and is spent in the USA. The remark blaming Israel for not negotiating with the Palestinians is unfair. The latest round during Clinton's time was rejected by the Palestinians in spite of an offer with many concessions that they would be happy to accept now. You ignore the neighborhood, Israel returned the Gaza strip and got rockets in exchange.
3
"In the end, what’s most important for Israel’s security is the relationship with the United States." Something Netanyahu, Sheldon Adelson, and AIPAC trashed.
Who are Israel's friends? Israel allied itself with Republican racism when they broke protocol and joined Republican rancor against the President of the United States whom they persist in deriding as unfit, indecisive, weak, not respected in the world, not American, and affirmed by silence "a Muslim". Never has such outrageous behavior been tolerated in our Congress. The southern strategy of the Republican party shed the veil of civility and revealed raw racism, hatred of the President. Disgusting and shameful, Israel, under Netanyahu joined hands with these power hungry bigots and violated our friendship.
No we should not provide Israel with anything but instead let Netanyahu know that building settlements in the West Bank must end, if Israel wants our money and arms. We must demand withdrawal from the West Bank as the price of our support. Netanyahu has crossed the line of civility and become a pariah in the world. America cannot support Israeli cruelty, and terror against Palestinians and maintain our integrity. Our support of Israel is not unconditional, it cannot be, it has already changed. Netanyahu must go. Regime change is required to begin healing the abyss Netanyahu has created between America and Israel.
The Gulf monarchies are supporters of Jihad, of ISIS and Al Qaeda, of Wahhabi caliphate fanatics. Enough!
Who are Israel's friends? Israel allied itself with Republican racism when they broke protocol and joined Republican rancor against the President of the United States whom they persist in deriding as unfit, indecisive, weak, not respected in the world, not American, and affirmed by silence "a Muslim". Never has such outrageous behavior been tolerated in our Congress. The southern strategy of the Republican party shed the veil of civility and revealed raw racism, hatred of the President. Disgusting and shameful, Israel, under Netanyahu joined hands with these power hungry bigots and violated our friendship.
No we should not provide Israel with anything but instead let Netanyahu know that building settlements in the West Bank must end, if Israel wants our money and arms. We must demand withdrawal from the West Bank as the price of our support. Netanyahu has crossed the line of civility and become a pariah in the world. America cannot support Israeli cruelty, and terror against Palestinians and maintain our integrity. Our support of Israel is not unconditional, it cannot be, it has already changed. Netanyahu must go. Regime change is required to begin healing the abyss Netanyahu has created between America and Israel.
The Gulf monarchies are supporters of Jihad, of ISIS and Al Qaeda, of Wahhabi caliphate fanatics. Enough!
12
The ties between the United Staes and Israel were already put at risk when Prime Minster Bibi Netanyahu quite publicly and shamelessly inserted himself into the last general election with his support of Mitt Romney, an act never before seen by any foreign head of state.
That very act followed by his unprecedented speech to Congress, chastising President Obama's Iran accord with the help of 5 other major powers on his own soil, confirms the old saying, with friend like this who need enemies.
That very act followed by his unprecedented speech to Congress, chastising President Obama's Iran accord with the help of 5 other major powers on his own soil, confirms the old saying, with friend like this who need enemies.
35
There is no reason to "trust" that the Iranians will honor the deal unless there are consequences for failing to abide by the deal. Support for Israel - including a MOP - is imperative to there being a "carrot and stick" approach to Iran.
Iran will reap the rewards of changed behavior if they stay true to their commitments, but if they stray (as they continue to posture about wiping out Israel) they will have to be concerned with the consequences. Ensuring Israel's overwhelming qualitative military advantage is imperative.
Trust but verify, as Ronald Reagan said, coupled now with some muscle behind those words. If the U.S. and Obama have lost some credibility by failing to act on policy statements in the past, hopefully, this will restore some luster to those words.
Iran will reap the rewards of changed behavior if they stay true to their commitments, but if they stray (as they continue to posture about wiping out Israel) they will have to be concerned with the consequences. Ensuring Israel's overwhelming qualitative military advantage is imperative.
Trust but verify, as Ronald Reagan said, coupled now with some muscle behind those words. If the U.S. and Obama have lost some credibility by failing to act on policy statements in the past, hopefully, this will restore some luster to those words.
JEWISH Americans traumatized by the Holocaust, and others are often overwhelmed by any hint that there is an existential threat to Israel. So their responses become illogical and agitated. To me Obama's deal with Iran is the best that could be done at this time; it contains strict measures that will cut Iran off from much of its access to fissible materiel. While it is true that the deal with Iran is imperfect and the ayatollahs and others may not view an agreement with non-Muslims as binding, Iran clearly wants to rejoin the community of nations. We also need to be on guard not to permit ourselves to be used to advance the political fortunes of anyone, including Netanyahu. His address to Congress and disrespect for the office of President of teh US for his own political gain make it distasteful to have to deal with him. Still, when Israel's safety and survival are at stake we must be prepared to provide strong, consistent support and to disregard political stunts. While Netanyahu's actions weakened Israel's relationship with the US, is offenses did not rise to the level of causing any significant disruption.
1
At work, in a Federal law enforcement agency, we have a webpage called "Trust Betrayed" where we post the rogues' gallery of our miscreant officers upon criminal conviction. A trust betrayed is what the Iran deal amounts to. Both Iran and Israel have much longer histories--and memories, perhaps--than America's, by several thousands of years. Let's see how this debacle in the making develops...
1
Good editorial. Thank you. We are dealing with an "ally" that is as extremist as any of its Mideastern neighbors. In countries with little diversity of mindset, it's easy for extreme positions to take hold. Perhaps if Israel would take in 50,000 Syrian neighbors fleeing the war that Netanyahu advised the CIA would be one of the pushover regime changes, their national attitudes might change. And perhaps we should take in a few hundred thousand given our responsibility for the multiple Mideast crises.
But then, our present leader isn't very good at taking responsibility - and don't even mention that word to his former Secretary of State, Bibi, or the Bush.
But then, our present leader isn't very good at taking responsibility - and don't even mention that word to his former Secretary of State, Bibi, or the Bush.
4
" ...Israel undermines stability by failing to negotiate peace with the Palestinians."
There's the answer - no more war materiel until peace is negotiated. Period. Treat Israel like Iran: belligerence will get you no where.
There's the answer - no more war materiel until peace is negotiated. Period. Treat Israel like Iran: belligerence will get you no where.
11
Israel has never pledged to destroy Iran. Iranian leaders do pledge to destroy Israel.
The Democrats have chosen to enter into an agreement with Iran in the belief that securing Iran's compliance is the best strategy for assuring non-proliferation. The Republicans and Netanyahu believe that the agreement gives away too much and accomplishes too little. This is a matter that reasonable folks can disagree about. To state that Israel knows less about its own security interests than the Democrats and that Israel is at fault here is to arbitrarily assume that the Democrats are right about a matter that is essentially unknowable. That's an attitude that fits the description of ugly American.
Excuse me. More than 20 billion in military aid to Israel since 2009 plus 3 billion in missile defense plus 1.9 billion in precision-guided munitions. Now a 4,444 pound bunker-busting cluster bomb and Israel has the only nuclear weapons in the region. The term "overkill" comes to mind. Israel is approximately the size of New Jersey (our 5th smallest state). Last year over 900,000 people in New Jersey needed food stamps (an increase of 67% since 2009). What kind of priorities do we have that would send twenty billion dollars worth of weapons to a country which arguably can already blow up the entire Middle East, when our own people have to choose between buying food and heating their homes? We definitely need a Political revolution.
29
One view of Bibi tells you a lot about him. He is one of the "fat cats" who survives on the largess of the US. Now he wants to deny to other countries the same autonomy and prosperity that he hopes to reap for himself personally and Israel as a whole.
Israel is no longer the poor kid of the block who needs help to obtain sufficient food and water. Israel has become a power that would deny these to its neighbors.
The Iran agreement is very important. It should be passed and should be supported. It is time to decrease rather than increase aid to Israel. It does not need our money. That aid should go to other countries, such as Palestine, where the need is greater and to help the Palestinians to attain their own free state.
Israel is no longer the poor kid of the block who needs help to obtain sufficient food and water. Israel has become a power that would deny these to its neighbors.
The Iran agreement is very important. It should be passed and should be supported. It is time to decrease rather than increase aid to Israel. It does not need our money. That aid should go to other countries, such as Palestine, where the need is greater and to help the Palestinians to attain their own free state.
25
One of the biggest controversies surround Arafat is if he was able to leave $2.2B or $2.4B to his heirs (not bad considering he never held a job). Palestine does not need more aid. They need to get their act together and endorse leaders who really do have the interests of their people in mind.
Stand strong against the Zionest lobby and their leader, Netanyahu. His country under his leadership has painted themselves into a corner in the world view, yes, the WORLD view, not just the narrow blinders worn by him and his U.S. supporters. Israel has done as much to destablize the middle east as any conqueror and it is time to stop their madness.
70
For Netanyahu, destabilizing the region is the best way to reign upon all of it. Jehovah told him so.
We work very hard at being allies and supporters both of Israel and Saudi Arabia. I WOULD like to see reciprocity. We are their allies, but are they ours?
54
Israel's contributions to American security have received little attention in our mainstream media.
As the only democracy in the Middle East( imperfect though it may be), Israel demonstrates to its neighbors how they might institute decent governments. This jibes with a long-standing American foreign policy goal. It's telling that, in polls, Israeli arabs say they'd rather remain Israelis than become part of a Palestinian state.
Extensive US military and intelligence cooperation has benefited the US as well as Israel. Much is classified, but much is also public. Israel has provided considerable information about the characteristics of Soviet/Russian armaments, from weapons captured in battles, and from being geographically near countries that use Russian weapons. Much of Israel's anti-missile defense R&D surely is shared with the US. I personally know of American-Israeli joint testing that resulted in a small revolution in American infrared imagers.
Don't underestimate Israel's contributions to American security because they go largely unheralded in the US media.
As the only democracy in the Middle East( imperfect though it may be), Israel demonstrates to its neighbors how they might institute decent governments. This jibes with a long-standing American foreign policy goal. It's telling that, in polls, Israeli arabs say they'd rather remain Israelis than become part of a Palestinian state.
Extensive US military and intelligence cooperation has benefited the US as well as Israel. Much is classified, but much is also public. Israel has provided considerable information about the characteristics of Soviet/Russian armaments, from weapons captured in battles, and from being geographically near countries that use Russian weapons. Much of Israel's anti-missile defense R&D surely is shared with the US. I personally know of American-Israeli joint testing that resulted in a small revolution in American infrared imagers.
Don't underestimate Israel's contributions to American security because they go largely unheralded in the US media.
America does not need to do anything whatsoever to reassure Israel and its republican supporters over the Iran deal.
Nothing.
Israel has long benefited from American foreign aid and military backing. Israel's gratitude for such support has been Mr Netanyahu's scorn. Quite frankly, the US does not need Israel. This is just a fact.
Nothing.
Israel has long benefited from American foreign aid and military backing. Israel's gratitude for such support has been Mr Netanyahu's scorn. Quite frankly, the US does not need Israel. This is just a fact.
74
Let Bibi get the money from Putin.
1
This editorial misses the point entirely. It is not what the US must do to repair the relationship\, it is what Israel must do. Israel is the one that blatantly interfered in a US election, that blatantly went around the back of the American President to sabotage US foreign policy. At a minimum Ron Dermer must be recalled and Israel must reach a settlement with Palestine. Then we can talk more aid for Israel, maybe.
131
Is this article for real - the US i.e. republicans will supposedly cut spending elsewhere to send even more money and guns to Israel? And this is a reward for what? Israeli loyalty to their prime supporter? Giving more money to Israel is throwing good money after bad. We need to cut the cord ASAP.
115
Ghost written by Avigdor Liberman and dictated to Sulzberger?
The "A" should be removed from AIPAC.
By its actions, Israel is increasingly undermining its political legitimacy. I say this is someone who has supported its right to peaceful existence for my entire life. But what I see alarms me. It started as a homeland for Jews after the horrors of the Holocaust. But once established as a nation state based on with a religious ideology, it became an imperialist power (1947), then a colonial power (1968), now a destructive hegemon. Its internal development is equally disturbing: fundamentalist fanatics are becoming a majority of the population, its security policy is almost completely militarized and refuses any negotiation, and it resembles an apartheid state more and more with each passing year. I predict it will find justification to eject all non-Jews from the country. Taken together, these are good reasons for the US to let Israel fend for itself, particularly if its leaders presume they can intrude into our domestic politics with the brazen arrogance we have seen these last years.
71
The translation of the $ 25 Bn in defense aid from the US is a whopping $520/ capita/ Year for a country where the per capita income is $ 36,000/ Year. Am sure they could find $ 520/ Year in internal savings to spend on their own defense.
I wonder what that kind of investment in education, health and civic services in neighboring countries of Israel with an annual per capita income of $ 1000 to $ 3000 could yield them and us.
To add insult to injury here is that this defense aid is essentially "revenues" for American military contractors essentially nothing more than a wonderful move of US middle class tax payer money to wealthy "mostly privately owned" defense contractors.
I wonder what that kind of investment in education, health and civic services in neighboring countries of Israel with an annual per capita income of $ 1000 to $ 3000 could yield them and us.
To add insult to injury here is that this defense aid is essentially "revenues" for American military contractors essentially nothing more than a wonderful move of US middle class tax payer money to wealthy "mostly privately owned" defense contractors.
53
"To add insult to injury here is that this defense aid is essentially "revenues" for American military contractors...." Who employ large numbers of people across the US.
And Israel has single payer medical care for all, and many orthodox men who get paid to do nothing but study the Torah. And how many of the current medications for which we are paying through the nose are made by Israeli owned companies? How many Jewish religious schools in New York state are US taxpayers paying for? I, for one, object strongly to having benefits for US citizens cut to pay for Israel's desires.
How much are we going to have to pay Bibi as a result of his bullying. I am hearing the figure of $5,000 000 000 raised from $3,000,000,000 (plus).
How long can we afford to continue diplomacy in the Mid-east if part of the tarriff is always more cash for Bibi's coffers after he slaps us in the face.
How long can we afford to continue diplomacy in the Mid-east if part of the tarriff is always more cash for Bibi's coffers after he slaps us in the face.
67
I'm unsure why threats are not useful in exerting influence on Iran. The threat to continue and expand sanctions was certainly the motivation for Iran coming to the negotiating table. Likewise, the Iranian hardliners cannot be further "emboldened". That sack is full.
2
Because persuasion is successful without the resentment aroused by threats. Because understanding and respecting our opposite's needs can lead to understanding and respect for our own needs. Because while each of us is unique, each of us is also part of a common humanity - we are more alike than different. Because war begets only more war. Because anger and threatening damage all of us and everything in its way. Because war profits only a very few. Because peace profits all.
L&B&L
L&B&L
The animosity was started by Obama, who has no earthly idea how to build a consensus within his own government. His promise to use force is also an empty one. No one trusts the guy anymore except Democrats. Looks like a problem to me.
9
Here in Washington DC, Obama's arrogance, ignorance and incompetence are the worst kept secrets in this town. Thank God the word is getting outside the beltway. God bless North Carolina.
As if any Democrat could build a consensus with the tea party.
3
Too much fox. Come into the real world occasionally.
1
Reading this and many replies gives the impression we have entered this agreement on our own. What about the five other nations, do they not also have a stake in the outcome? We need to try diplomacy at least once in my sixty trips around the sun,all our other attempts at foreign policing in my life have been a fiasco.
17
We are an arrogant narcissistic childish nation that seems to be looking for validation on the world stage. Acts we consider esteemable others may find appalling.
We need to grow up. Theres no reason for us to befriend and a militarily fund a nation that willfully oppresses others. They are NOT our friends. They are a wiping rag for our dysfunction.
We need to grow up. Theres no reason for us to befriend and a militarily fund a nation that willfully oppresses others. They are NOT our friends. They are a wiping rag for our dysfunction.
37
Very well said!
You refer to Iran, of course.
It may well be in our interests to have Israel in position to destroy the nuclear facilities of Iran should they violate the agreement without our help (might not be totally realistic) as we are apparently wishing to become more of an arbiter than active participant in Middle East issues. One concern about the Iran agreement being so partisan (a Democrat issue) is that should Hillary be elected (or Biden) that there will be a huge incentive to look the other way and to get caught up in "international tribunals" etc. and that military force will never really be a viable alternative if it requires the US to lead. The good cop/bad cop model works many times and may be our best hope here for compliance by Iran.
1
The U. S. created the whole imbalance of power in the Middle East when the Bush 43 Administration invaded Iraq in 2003. Taking out Saddam Hussein, the counter-balance to Tehran's clerics, established Iran as the only Regional Power, and it gave birth to the current multi-facetted group of Jihadists groups.
For us to now enter into an Agreement, as we have with Iran--which does offer the best possible outcome, among a number of bad ones--and then consider military action against it, would be ludicrous. Fighting fire with fire in a nuclear-armed Middle East would be devastatingly dangerous, to the world at large.
If we were, in fact, to enter into warfare, we would need to Re-Enact the Military Draft. We cannot possibly keep deploying the same war-weary Army and Marines back into Harm's Way and, no doubt, many are already suffering from PTSD.
Expanding the pain beyond the current one percent of America, so that everyone can feel the pain--of sending sons and daughters off to fight and, perhaps, die--would surely create considerable outrage on the home front. Politicians seem to act differently when it comes to declaring war, when they know that their children or grandchildren might be sent off into serious danger--to reconsider their decision.
http://thetruthoncommonsense.com
For us to now enter into an Agreement, as we have with Iran--which does offer the best possible outcome, among a number of bad ones--and then consider military action against it, would be ludicrous. Fighting fire with fire in a nuclear-armed Middle East would be devastatingly dangerous, to the world at large.
If we were, in fact, to enter into warfare, we would need to Re-Enact the Military Draft. We cannot possibly keep deploying the same war-weary Army and Marines back into Harm's Way and, no doubt, many are already suffering from PTSD.
Expanding the pain beyond the current one percent of America, so that everyone can feel the pain--of sending sons and daughters off to fight and, perhaps, die--would surely create considerable outrage on the home front. Politicians seem to act differently when it comes to declaring war, when they know that their children or grandchildren might be sent off into serious danger--to reconsider their decision.
http://thetruthoncommonsense.com
17
I still can't see a valid reason to be upset about Netanyahu's visit to congress, as expressed in this article. It is not like he told them a secret. It's all been said and written about before. It was important to him and important to congress (those who wanted to hear). His country is one of our leading allies, not an enemy. Congress does have a role in foreign affairs and by law a role in this agreement. All of this is true whether you are pro or con the agreement. Of course, the invalid reason - both sides want to win - is the only real answer to questions about why they someone might be upset. Silencing the other side is always tactically preferable to arguing points with them.
I have no problem with our talking with Iran either. Cooperation is best, but when countries have radically different goals sometimes force and the threat of force is the only answer. Talk did not work with Saddam. It isn't going to work with Iran. There is a reason countries rattle sabers. It gets other countries' attention and has them thinking about consequences. As bad a job as Bush did in foreign affairs, this administration has done worse. The only country I can think of where we have better relations now is Colombia, not a major player. In the middle east, with China and Russia, our allies, it is worse.
I have no problem with our talking with Iran either. Cooperation is best, but when countries have radically different goals sometimes force and the threat of force is the only answer. Talk did not work with Saddam. It isn't going to work with Iran. There is a reason countries rattle sabers. It gets other countries' attention and has them thinking about consequences. As bad a job as Bush did in foreign affairs, this administration has done worse. The only country I can think of where we have better relations now is Colombia, not a major player. In the middle east, with China and Russia, our allies, it is worse.
3
Not true. Netanyahu has willfully tried to undermine US politic. He shouldn't get pass, nor should the politicians in the US who used him as a wedge. Israel is our ally, but they should stay out of our politics.
1
Israel has been at war for as long as it has existed. It is impossible to negotiate with factions that are bent on your destruction. Can you see the US negotiating with ISIS?
Iran is an existential threat not only to Israel but to other players in the Middle East(Saudi Arabia). We will be fostering the financial backing of disruptive forces in Middle East whether they be in Lebanon (Hezbollah),Yemen(Houthi) or Iraq(Shiite proxy Iran backed government).
This will be as destructive to Order in the MIddle East as George Bush's Invasion of Iraq. US Foreign Policy in the Middle East has gone from
Iran is an existential threat not only to Israel but to other players in the Middle East(Saudi Arabia). We will be fostering the financial backing of disruptive forces in Middle East whether they be in Lebanon (Hezbollah),Yemen(Houthi) or Iraq(Shiite proxy Iran backed government).
This will be as destructive to Order in the MIddle East as George Bush's Invasion of Iraq. US Foreign Policy in the Middle East has gone from
15
Bzg
The US will be fostering the financial backing of disruptive forces in Middle East, that is to say the extremists in Israel.
The US will be fostering the financial backing of disruptive forces in Middle East, that is to say the extremists in Israel.
15
We do seem to have a penchant for making deals, laws and budgets that requires to work out the detailsafter the fact. This is what creates the situation of the Iran stating , "we never agreed to that" or the US stating "We never agreed to this language." It is important for the world to have real and quickly enforcable snactions that must be stricktly adhered to in order to have Iran and other rogue nations realize that not just the US but the World will not tolerate the support and proliferation of of terrorism in the world. Iran's economy has been affected by sanctions that are in place but it has not crippled them to the point of collapse. Part of this is the high price of oil on the Futures Market. Isreal and the US have long enjoyed a symbiotic relationship. We need an ally in the region and untill recently, we work in concert together. The US is regarded as a paper tiger by terrorist nations, while they are less comfortable with confonting Isreal because it is willing to take action to defend itself swiftly with an absolute resolve. Saudi Arabia is first and foremost an Arab Nation, and the largest player in the oil game. It is adept at dealing and appeasing its terrorist neighbors while keeping a cordial realtionship with the US. We have demonstrated time and time again for all the world to see that our ideological infighting between parties makes us dysfunctional and slows any punitive actions.
4
No more aid until and unless Israel negotiates a durable peace. Israel already has enough weapons and personnel to protect itself. Adding more to the arsenal is reckless and counter productive.
125
Denis you need to read the comment by Ethel Guttenberg Cincinnait 1 hour ago
Although there are several issues to deal with in this editorial, I will deal with only one now. The statement that "Israel undermines stability by failing to negotiate peace with the Palestinians" is simply wrong.
In order to negotiate, one must have a partner willing to negotiate. There is no Palestinian authority that has the power to do that. They are under the control of Hamas in Gaza, who continues to send rockets over Israel. In recent years, in the territories the Palestinians have shown no willingness to make a deal. They seem to be playing a waiting game hoping that Israel will be destroyed.
Again, for Israel to negotiate they must have willing partners. Perhaps the New York Times could help in this matter bu taking the Palestinians and their allies to task and giving Israel real partners for peace.
Although there are several issues to deal with in this editorial, I will deal with only one now. The statement that "Israel undermines stability by failing to negotiate peace with the Palestinians" is simply wrong.
In order to negotiate, one must have a partner willing to negotiate. There is no Palestinian authority that has the power to do that. They are under the control of Hamas in Gaza, who continues to send rockets over Israel. In recent years, in the territories the Palestinians have shown no willingness to make a deal. They seem to be playing a waiting game hoping that Israel will be destroyed.
Again, for Israel to negotiate they must have willing partners. Perhaps the New York Times could help in this matter bu taking the Palestinians and their allies to task and giving Israel real partners for peace.
2
How does one negotiate a peace with a country and culture that has its central tenet your destruction and annihilation.
2
How can Israel make peace with the Palestinian leadership when the Palestinian leadership cannot even make peace amongst themselves? And how can Israel make peace with Hamas, which calls for the destruction of Israel? The Palestinians were offered what they said they wanted, a state of its own including a capital in East Jerusalem, with land swaps to assure Israel's security. They rejected the deal. Israel totally withdrew from Gaza, only to be met with repeated terrorism from that very territory.
1
Let's put petty politics and name-calling aside. Israel has an existential fear that is justified in terms of present reality and past experience. That is no flabby excuse; it is a fact. This has helped allow small-minded individuals, like their current PM, to pursue bad policy and to monopolize the discussion in and about Israel. Regardless of his shallow rhetoric and ridiculous posturing and politicking around the world, Israel's realistic fears have to be kept in mind. Israel's neighbors are neither friendly nor fully rational actors. Several preach the most racist murderous lies about Jews, Zionists, and Israel, and spend money to back them up. You have to be careful dealing with them. Arming Israel to take care of immediate threats through tunnels and from non-nuclear missiles seems reasonable, though this should come with serious warnings about abuse of their military power whether in the West Bank or Gaza. At the same time the US should make clear diplomatically the ultimate power it has (MOPs etc.) and its determination to use it to prevent the development of nuclear weapons in Iran. It should clearly state that a nuclear armed Iran would be an existential threat to the US. Russia and China also know about existential threats, and might complain, but would get out of the way if the US made its determination known. Then at least a De facto peace could take hold, and Iran's revolution might have a chance to mature into a normal state.
11
Netanyahu has fabricated and promoted the "existential threat" in order to stay in power. He intentionally provokes violent reactions from the Palestinians. If Israel stopped the occupation of the West Bank and stopped the effective occupation of Gaza, the threat level would become reduce dramatically immediately and become negligable in the years following. But of course, this would put Israeli extremist hawks out of work.
What has Israel done in the last 60 years that is in the strategic interest of the US? I think the answer is clear. Israel has consistently acted against US strategic interests. So let's end not increase all forms of aid to Israel. That would force Israel to push the peace process forward. We can use the billions of dollars wasted on Israel to good use here at home rebuilding our infrastructure. Which politicians have the courage to lead on this issue?
298
Truth be told, Israel is not of the strategic importance it was decades ago when the US competed with USSR in the region. With US troops now throughout the Middle East, good working relations with most Muslim governments and non-carbon energy sources globally more abundant, Israel does not have that much to offer. Besides US aid to Israel costing funds that could be better spent at home, It is now proposed we increase aid to Israel to counter our trying diplomacy with Iran rather than risking another interminable war. No longer the ally it was when the likes of Rabin was prime minister, Israel has moved further to the radical right and is led by a prime minister who even has stated he does not intend to allow a two-state solution. Not only does Israel's illegal settlements and treatment of Palestinians continue to defy international laws and UN resolutions, Netanyahu blithely works against US policies and interests in the region, most recently by openly campaigning against the US President's negotiations with Iran over its nuclear program.
Why does the US treat Israel as a reliable ally we have much in common with when it betrays our trust and its prime minister openly works against US interests? It's time for a complete and honest reappraisal of US policies in the Middle East, with the Iranian deal just a beginning and followed now by a serious reconsideration of the now outdated status quo with Israel. It might help Israel make genuine adjustments to live in peace.
Why does the US treat Israel as a reliable ally we have much in common with when it betrays our trust and its prime minister openly works against US interests? It's time for a complete and honest reappraisal of US policies in the Middle East, with the Iranian deal just a beginning and followed now by a serious reconsideration of the now outdated status quo with Israel. It might help Israel make genuine adjustments to live in peace.
All major U.S. tech companies have major research and development offices in Israel. That is in the strategic interests of the U.S. During the 60s, 70s and 80s Israel was the only U.S. friend in the middle east and in so doing helped to protect U.S. and European oil interests. Israel made sure the Suez Canal remained open to international shipping. Israel has shown (with Egypt) that with a willing partner they will make and keep peace. To suggest that Israel has not strategic interest for the U.S. for 60 years is simply foolish. The U.S. doesn't need any other country, it doesn't need France or England or Australia. But the U.S. does need friends and allies thorughout the world. Israel is a trusted ally in the middle east. Really the only one.
June 1967, the Israeli Air Force and Navy bomb, strafe and torpedo the USS Liberty as it sails in international waters, flying the US flag, killing 34 US sailors, wounding 171.
Israel pays Jonathon Pollard to spy on the US and sells some of that stolen US intelligence to the Soviet Union.
In 2012 BiBi Netanyahu campaigns, openly, in the US for Willard Mitty Romney, who, promised him eternal jihad against Iran. A first for a foreign head of state.
In another insulting breach of diplomatic protocol BiBi addresses Congress, lies about Iran, seeks to lure the US into another needless, stupid war in the Middle East.
Israel is illegally occupying and stealing Palestinian land and running an apartheid regime on the Palestinians. Israel bombs Palestinian non combatants in Gaza, repeatedly, invades and occupies Lebanon, bombs Iraq, Syria.
With "allies" like this who needs enemies?
Israel pays Jonathon Pollard to spy on the US and sells some of that stolen US intelligence to the Soviet Union.
In 2012 BiBi Netanyahu campaigns, openly, in the US for Willard Mitty Romney, who, promised him eternal jihad against Iran. A first for a foreign head of state.
In another insulting breach of diplomatic protocol BiBi addresses Congress, lies about Iran, seeks to lure the US into another needless, stupid war in the Middle East.
Israel is illegally occupying and stealing Palestinian land and running an apartheid regime on the Palestinians. Israel bombs Palestinian non combatants in Gaza, repeatedly, invades and occupies Lebanon, bombs Iraq, Syria.
With "allies" like this who needs enemies?
152
The USS Liberty nonsense was debunked years ago (although anti-Semites love to invoke it in their diatribes against Israel). We have a foreign head of state right now - the Pope - lecturing our Congress about his support for immigration and climate change. Apparently that does not bother you. The territory in question was won in a defense war by Israel started by Arabs and is disputed, not occupied. If there is "apartheid" in Israel, then how is it that Arabs are allowed to vote? "Non-combatants" in Gaza built terror tunnels into Israel and rained bombs on her on a regular basis. Twisting facts to suit your clearly anti-Semitic beliefs doesn't make them true.
1
Had the Liberty acted on Navy directives to move from the Egyptian coast, this "friendly fire" incident may not have occurred, as the Liberty was likely mistaken for the Egyptian Naval Transport "el-Quseir." See: http://wikipedia.org/USS_Liberty_Incident. Many facts were disputed, including whether the Liberty flew a U.S. flag, weather may have left a flag, if any limp, and invisible. In the "Details in Dispute," section, the argument, like the Navy's investigation was inconclusive. Many sources, including the C.I.A., concluded the attack was "accidental." "Friendly Fire" incidents occur in the "fog of war," including a U.S. attack on a British armored personnel carrier, mistaken for an Iraqi Soviet built "BMP," during "Desert Storm," killing its entire crew.
Jonathan Pollard will serve his entire 30 year sentence for espionage and be released on November 21, 2015, one day short of the 30th anniversary of his arrest.
The tired "Apartheid" canard is the favored tool of bigots seeking to delegitimize and eradicate Israel. Unlike Apartheid era South Africa, all Israeli citizens: Arabs, Christians, Druze and Jews, may vote, form political parties and hold public office. In which Arab nations, other than Tunisia, can minorities, not to mention the majority, enjoy those rights? As the victorious belligerent of the 1967 "Six Day War," under International Law, Israel may retain captured land until possession is modified by treaty. See: http;//wikipedia.org/wiki/Uti_possidetis
Jonathan Pollard will serve his entire 30 year sentence for espionage and be released on November 21, 2015, one day short of the 30th anniversary of his arrest.
The tired "Apartheid" canard is the favored tool of bigots seeking to delegitimize and eradicate Israel. Unlike Apartheid era South Africa, all Israeli citizens: Arabs, Christians, Druze and Jews, may vote, form political parties and hold public office. In which Arab nations, other than Tunisia, can minorities, not to mention the majority, enjoy those rights? As the victorious belligerent of the 1967 "Six Day War," under International Law, Israel may retain captured land until possession is modified by treaty. See: http;//wikipedia.org/wiki/Uti_possidetis
1
How about, instead of sending more military aid to our "allies" in the region (including Israel), we instead begin knocking Sunni heads together in an effort to get them to reach out to their Shiite brothers in faith, and end the strife that gives Iran every reason it could possible need to seek to expand Shiite military influence in the region? A nation that is perpetually viewed as a pariah is much more apt to adopt an aggressive stance than a welcoming one. This is nothing but common sense.
If ISIS is to be defeated (as well as the various Salafist groups that our 'allies' in Saudi Arabia have inspired...), then Sunni-Shiite cooperation is imperative.
As regards Israel, there are perhaps 40-50 million Iranians who desire warmer relations with the United States. Why on God's good earth should we allow the paranoia of perhaps several million zealots in Israel to trump our obligation, especially in light of our shameful betrayal of them in 1953, to 40-50 million Iranians?
If ISIS is to be defeated (as well as the various Salafist groups that our 'allies' in Saudi Arabia have inspired...), then Sunni-Shiite cooperation is imperative.
As regards Israel, there are perhaps 40-50 million Iranians who desire warmer relations with the United States. Why on God's good earth should we allow the paranoia of perhaps several million zealots in Israel to trump our obligation, especially in light of our shameful betrayal of them in 1953, to 40-50 million Iranians?
48
The Sunni-Shia conflict has existed for 1,400 years. Unlike the "Thirty Years War (1618-1648)," ending with the "Peace of Westphalia," Catholics and Lutherans long ago learned to tolerate and live with each other. While Sunnis and Shia continue to bomb each others' Mosques, Catholics and Lutherans no longer destroy each others' Churches!
At one time, before extremists turned Iran into a "Pariah Regime," Iran and Israel were trading partners and allies. Most Iranians would like a return to those days, but are precluded from doing so by the "Supreme Leader," despite elected President Rouhani's optimism that the nuclear agreement is the first step toward improved Iranian-American relations.
The U.S.-British overthrow of the democratically elected government of Mohammed Mossedegh was an crime, as was the rule of the Shah, including his notorious secret police, the SAVAK, which oppressed many Iranian dissidents. Perhaps, both the U.S. and Iran should apologize to each other: the U.S. for the overthrow of Mossedegh and Iran for the seizure of the U.S. Embassy in Tehran. A commitment to mutual respect and reconciliation will be required to re-establish positive Iranian-American relations!
At one time, before extremists turned Iran into a "Pariah Regime," Iran and Israel were trading partners and allies. Most Iranians would like a return to those days, but are precluded from doing so by the "Supreme Leader," despite elected President Rouhani's optimism that the nuclear agreement is the first step toward improved Iranian-American relations.
The U.S.-British overthrow of the democratically elected government of Mohammed Mossedegh was an crime, as was the rule of the Shah, including his notorious secret police, the SAVAK, which oppressed many Iranian dissidents. Perhaps, both the U.S. and Iran should apologize to each other: the U.S. for the overthrow of Mossedegh and Iran for the seizure of the U.S. Embassy in Tehran. A commitment to mutual respect and reconciliation will be required to re-establish positive Iranian-American relations!
1
"we instead begin knocking Sunni heads together in an effort to get them to reach out to their Shiite brothers in faith..." Takes two to tango. For example, have the Shia in Iraq--inside the government and among their various militias, shown any real inclination to reach out?
1
The president make sovertures so he isn't remembered as the president who sold out his allies and pandered to his enemies. Unfortunately, it may be too late. Congress will have to clean up his mess again. Not the first time.
9
Tens of billions in military and non-military aid to one particular ally; sharing intelligence data; joint military exercises. You call this "selling out?" There must be hundreds of nations lining up to be "sold out" by America.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
www.endthemadnessnow.org
2
I'm trying to recall Congress cleaning up anything. Please elaborate.
2
What bothers me is the idea that we must go out of our way to assure Israel that we will try our best to see that the agreement is followed.
The implication is that Israel does not trust us to do it and that, somehow, we owe Israel something for "having failed them". The agreement is the best deal we could get, unless we were willing to engage in another 40 year useless conflict with a major country. The principal issue is how to defeat the barbarians that are threatening to engulf the area and do away with civilization. To achieve this, we need to concentrate our attention on them, and removing a conflict with Iran will serve us in the realization of that aim.
The implication is that Israel does not trust us to do it and that, somehow, we owe Israel something for "having failed them". The agreement is the best deal we could get, unless we were willing to engage in another 40 year useless conflict with a major country. The principal issue is how to defeat the barbarians that are threatening to engulf the area and do away with civilization. To achieve this, we need to concentrate our attention on them, and removing a conflict with Iran will serve us in the realization of that aim.
232
The 30,000 lb bomb called MOP is as heavy as an F-16. It can't be carried by any Israeli Air Force planes. It can only be carried by US strategic bombers.
Those who want to give that bomb to Israel also want to give Israel the only planes that can carry it. That has been specified in various proposals as a squadron of B-52's. More recently they've upped that to a squadron of B-1 bombers.
That is outrageous. They must know that. Those planes are subject to our Strategic Arms Limitation Treaties, and part of our nuclear triad. The idea of giving them away is as outrageous as the effect on peace prospects of the Israelis flying a squadron of them around the Middle East.
They also do the massive Arc Light style bombings done by the US. On whom would the Israelis do that? Gaza? Lebanon? Syria? The Sinai? Every prospect is absurd.
Furthermore, it is absurd to think that Israel is not safe already in the conventional warfare sense. They have overwhelming power in quality and numbers, and we've assured they are the only nuclear power complete with their own more limited range delivery triad of subs, F-15s, and ballistic missiles. Israel does not need to be made safe. It is safe.
Israeli hawks and AIPAC both ought not to be rewarded for their awful behavior recently. More weapons, more ways to subvert peace with Iran, is the last thing with which they should be trusted.
They asked for some things that are outrageous, when really they need and deserve nothing at all.
Those who want to give that bomb to Israel also want to give Israel the only planes that can carry it. That has been specified in various proposals as a squadron of B-52's. More recently they've upped that to a squadron of B-1 bombers.
That is outrageous. They must know that. Those planes are subject to our Strategic Arms Limitation Treaties, and part of our nuclear triad. The idea of giving them away is as outrageous as the effect on peace prospects of the Israelis flying a squadron of them around the Middle East.
They also do the massive Arc Light style bombings done by the US. On whom would the Israelis do that? Gaza? Lebanon? Syria? The Sinai? Every prospect is absurd.
Furthermore, it is absurd to think that Israel is not safe already in the conventional warfare sense. They have overwhelming power in quality and numbers, and we've assured they are the only nuclear power complete with their own more limited range delivery triad of subs, F-15s, and ballistic missiles. Israel does not need to be made safe. It is safe.
Israeli hawks and AIPAC both ought not to be rewarded for their awful behavior recently. More weapons, more ways to subvert peace with Iran, is the last thing with which they should be trusted.
They asked for some things that are outrageous, when really they need and deserve nothing at all.
565
Mark:
Your comments are spot on.
A friend of mine, who immigrated to the United States from a European country, told me many years ago that the United States was controlled by Israel. I pooh-poohed his comment at that time, but now, alas, I'm beginning to see his comment as being more correct than wrong.
Your comments are spot on.
A friend of mine, who immigrated to the United States from a European country, told me many years ago that the United States was controlled by Israel. I pooh-poohed his comment at that time, but now, alas, I'm beginning to see his comment as being more correct than wrong.
The B1 is not part of any American defense strategy. They can't carry a serious bomb load and were a major waste of money. We used them once in Desert Storm just to prove we did not waste all that money. The B2 is a serious plane and the B 52's are still around since the B1's can't carry a serious load. B52's won't help Israel since they would need to neutralize all of the air defenses before they can drop a payload. Israel does have an alternative to the MOP, that I am sure they will use if Iran gets a bomb. It is tactical nuclear weapons on all of Irans major defense sites. 10 or so nukes should get the job done. So, if we don't give Israel and alternative and Iran runs for the bomb expect to see nukes used for the first time since WW2.
1
When did Israel ask for any MOP? Your comment is based on a fantasy, but at least it gave you the opportunity to vent.
Why is it that Syria had chemical weapons and Iran is toying with nuclear enrichment? It has everything to do with Israel's "military superiority". Israel has an illegal nuclear weapons program under the Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), and we reward them with billions in aid. If we really want to improve stability in the Middle East, we would withdrawal all foreign aid to Israel until they turn over their nuclear weapons to the US, sign the NPT, and open themselves to IAEA non-proliferation inspections. In exchange the US should extend our nuclear umbrella to Israel, promising nuclear retaliation if nuclear weapons are used against them.
More weapons in the Middle East results in more weapons in the Middle East. Asymmetric military capability (F-35 stealth fighters) leads to asymmetric warfare (terrorism).
We need to break the cycle of empowering and emboldening one theocracy while sanctioning another for the same behaviors. Clearly we have more in common with Israel than Iran, but our current approach has made things worse for the last 60 years. A new approach of deescalation is worth a try. Iran seems to be willing to give it a try.
More weapons in the Middle East results in more weapons in the Middle East. Asymmetric military capability (F-35 stealth fighters) leads to asymmetric warfare (terrorism).
We need to break the cycle of empowering and emboldening one theocracy while sanctioning another for the same behaviors. Clearly we have more in common with Israel than Iran, but our current approach has made things worse for the last 60 years. A new approach of deescalation is worth a try. Iran seems to be willing to give it a try.
121
" ... Israel has an illegal nuclear weapons program under the Non-Proliferation Treaty ..."
Sadly, no, as Israel is not a signatory of the NPT and therefore does not fall under it's regulations.
So the Israeli nuclear arms program, which started in the 1950s based on French technology, legally is not illegal.
Also not illegal is the Iranian nuclear program, or whatever is was, as the Iranians did sign and fully complied to the original NPT but did not sign an additional protocol, one that was not mandatory.
So technically and legally, neither Israel nor Iran are in breach of any NPT protocols or run illegal nuclear arms programs.
Also, both, Israel and Iran are threatened by Saudi Arabia with nuclear annihilation.
Still, there is the small issue of double standards when it comes to judged by the US as the US has been thrown out of Iran in 1979, after having had 26 years of backdoor ruling after the 1953 coup led by the CIA.
So Iran is, of course, the bad guy.
But technically and legally not because of any treaty signed or otherwise unsigned.
Sadly, no, as Israel is not a signatory of the NPT and therefore does not fall under it's regulations.
So the Israeli nuclear arms program, which started in the 1950s based on French technology, legally is not illegal.
Also not illegal is the Iranian nuclear program, or whatever is was, as the Iranians did sign and fully complied to the original NPT but did not sign an additional protocol, one that was not mandatory.
So technically and legally, neither Israel nor Iran are in breach of any NPT protocols or run illegal nuclear arms programs.
Also, both, Israel and Iran are threatened by Saudi Arabia with nuclear annihilation.
Still, there is the small issue of double standards when it comes to judged by the US as the US has been thrown out of Iran in 1979, after having had 26 years of backdoor ruling after the 1953 coup led by the CIA.
So Iran is, of course, the bad guy.
But technically and legally not because of any treaty signed or otherwise unsigned.
Israel cannot be in violation of a treaty (NPT) to which it has never been a party. Syria remains in a state of war with Israel and seeks to annihilate it. Israel has no such designs on Syria. Iran too seeks Israel's extinction as the exercise of the right of the Jewish people to self-determination in their historical homeland - rights under international law as confirmed by the 1922 League of Nations Mandate for Palestine. It goes without saying that Israel does not seek the destruction of Iran. To pretend to see any equivalence in these situations is to be morally obtuse, at best.
1
Sorry, that's not going to work. First off, there's nothing illegal about Israel's nuclear program, so long as it hasn't signed and ratified the NPT. Secondly, Israel would actually be able to function well without US aid. US aid currently pays for about 18$ of Israel's military budget, and going without that is doable.
Finally, there's no way Israel is going to give up its nukes in exchange for a US nuclear umbrella. In 1994, the US and Britain (along with Russia) gave Ukraine security guarantees in exchange for Ukraine turning over it's Soviet-built nukes, and look what happened now. That pretty much proves the worth of US security guarantees.
Finally, there's no way Israel is going to give up its nukes in exchange for a US nuclear umbrella. In 1994, the US and Britain (along with Russia) gave Ukraine security guarantees in exchange for Ukraine turning over it's Soviet-built nukes, and look what happened now. That pretty much proves the worth of US security guarantees.
1
"America has a responsibility to help ensure the security of Israel and the gulf allies". Really? On what politic, democratic or strategic basis? Seeing how such allies actually do nothing for peace or respect for human rights, I don't see how relevant it is to compromise USA's standings with such partners.
245
I fear Congress will so enrich Israel with weapons that those who wish Iran's nuclear facilities destroyed will fulfill their dream.
Even if Congressional largess falls short of that level, our weapons will continue to support Israel's intransigence regarding a two-state solution. Israel is by no means short of weapons. It is not in danger of being overrun by any military in the region, and we would step in with more weapons if they were. We are the enablers of the unattained peace between Israel and the Palestinians, the ones who effectively support a PM who quite explicitly said he will never support a Palestinian state, and tarred his country's minority citizens as enemies at the last election.
Finally, we should not even be considering rewarding Netanyahu for his destructive interference in US politics. His actions in the last few years threaten to destroy the long and extremely important relationship between our countries, a relationship that Israel needs to survive. He needs to reap the consequences of his actions.
Even if Congressional largess falls short of that level, our weapons will continue to support Israel's intransigence regarding a two-state solution. Israel is by no means short of weapons. It is not in danger of being overrun by any military in the region, and we would step in with more weapons if they were. We are the enablers of the unattained peace between Israel and the Palestinians, the ones who effectively support a PM who quite explicitly said he will never support a Palestinian state, and tarred his country's minority citizens as enemies at the last election.
Finally, we should not even be considering rewarding Netanyahu for his destructive interference in US politics. His actions in the last few years threaten to destroy the long and extremely important relationship between our countries, a relationship that Israel needs to survive. He needs to reap the consequences of his actions.
294
Israel's intransigence regarding a two-state solution is not a result of their defensive strength. It is a result of the current right-wing government which emerged after multiple serious land for peace offers from Israel at US lead negotiating sessions, all of which the PA/PLO rejected out of hand with no serious counter offer other than their initial position, which includes demographic suicide for Israel and the all of the old city of Jerusalem be given to the Palestinian State. The follow on terrorist attacks on Israel put Bibi in power and continue to leave him there.
1
A presidential trip to Gaza would be the best demonstration of our commitment to settle issues in the region, and eliminate the need to send a endless flow of arms to the region. Weapons always need to be used. Their use creates more instability. Promoting the Palestinian cause would make us heroes to muslims throughout the middle east and do more to create the very security Israel wants than any amount of war ever will.
What about Palestinian intransigence? Recently, Mr. Netanyahu, walking back from his previous campaign rhetoric, offered to resume negotiations without any preconditions. In contrast, Mr. Abbas insists on using the insecure 1967 border as a baseline, as a "precondition" for resuming negotiations. Perhaps, Mr. Netanyahu should insist on Palestinians relinquishing any so-called "right of return," as a condition for accepting Mr. Abbas' "precondition." That would be an appropriate test of Mr. Abbas' sincerity!
But, even should Mr. Abbas and Mr. Netanyahu reach a two-state agreement,
Hamas would never accept it. Article 7 of the Hamas Covenant calls for the genocide of all Jews, not limited to those in Israel; Article 13, explicitly rejects all forms of non-violent conflict resolution in favor of perpetual war against Israel; Article 32 labels any Palestinian who negotiates with Israel, such as Saeb Erekat, a traitor to the Palestinian cause. Read the entire text at: http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp
Hamas recently reiterated the objectives contained in its Covenant, ensuring future wars in Gaza. After three failed "wars of aggression," each more lethal and destructive to Gaza than the last, it is inevitable that Gaza will be totally reduced to rubble within a decade, or two. But such death and destruction is the price Hamas remains willing to pay!
But, even should Mr. Abbas and Mr. Netanyahu reach a two-state agreement,
Hamas would never accept it. Article 7 of the Hamas Covenant calls for the genocide of all Jews, not limited to those in Israel; Article 13, explicitly rejects all forms of non-violent conflict resolution in favor of perpetual war against Israel; Article 32 labels any Palestinian who negotiates with Israel, such as Saeb Erekat, a traitor to the Palestinian cause. Read the entire text at: http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp
Hamas recently reiterated the objectives contained in its Covenant, ensuring future wars in Gaza. After three failed "wars of aggression," each more lethal and destructive to Gaza than the last, it is inevitable that Gaza will be totally reduced to rubble within a decade, or two. But such death and destruction is the price Hamas remains willing to pay!
1
I, for one, am sick & tired of seeing my tax dollars being massively channeled to this belligerent little country that blithely ignores our requests that it cease its illegal occupation of other people's land & insults our President.
As this editorial points out we have sent it "more than $20 billion in military aid, as well as more than $3 billion for missile defense systems and $1.9 billion in precision-guided munitions". Astounding! With these funds we could have completed the desperately needed cross Hudson rail tunnels, fixed large numbers of bridges and invested in hundreds of schools here in America.
Why do we need to pander to this rogue nation? It already is the only nuclear power in the Middle East with a clandestine arsenal of over 200 atomic bombs.
Why is it our "responsibility to help ensure the security of Israel"? Perhaps it is time for Israel to attempt to reach peace agreements with its neighbors, which it will never do as long as we unquestioningly keep flooding it with our dollars.
As this editorial points out we have sent it "more than $20 billion in military aid, as well as more than $3 billion for missile defense systems and $1.9 billion in precision-guided munitions". Astounding! With these funds we could have completed the desperately needed cross Hudson rail tunnels, fixed large numbers of bridges and invested in hundreds of schools here in America.
Why do we need to pander to this rogue nation? It already is the only nuclear power in the Middle East with a clandestine arsenal of over 200 atomic bombs.
Why is it our "responsibility to help ensure the security of Israel"? Perhaps it is time for Israel to attempt to reach peace agreements with its neighbors, which it will never do as long as we unquestioningly keep flooding it with our dollars.
352
If by "rogue nation" you mean the only democratic country in the Middle East, then you are right to call Israel a rogue nation.
As far as reaching peace agreements with your neighbors (which Israel has done with Egypt and Jordan), how does one reach peace agreement with others who have openly avowed to destroy your country and murder all its citizens?
As far as reaching peace agreements with your neighbors (which Israel has done with Egypt and Jordan), how does one reach peace agreement with others who have openly avowed to destroy your country and murder all its citizens?
2
Perhaps, Israel should pre-emptively use those 200 nuclear warheads to eradicate every "rogue regime" which threaten its very existence. If Israel reduced Iran to nuclear rubble, the United States would no longer be responsible for its national defense. Would that make you happy?
Then you could build those tunnels under the Hudson, provided Governors Christie and Cuomo agreed to pay for them. I see no reason for people who live outside New Jersey and New York to pay for those states' infrastructure!
Then you could build those tunnels under the Hudson, provided Governors Christie and Cuomo agreed to pay for them. I see no reason for people who live outside New Jersey and New York to pay for those states' infrastructure!
1
But of course Mike 71 they SHOULD pay $25 billion to appease Israel. Pretty amazing what the AIPAC has been able to achieve.
1
As usual, NY Times editorial is thoughtful. However, it probably misses the point. Israel needs unending confrontation with Iran to divert attention from its illegal occupation of Palestine
196
No, Iran needs unending confrontation between Israel and the Palestinians to keep their people's mind of the fact they live in an oppressive government that does not deliver prosperity or freedom.
1
Under International Law, Israel as the victorious belligerent of the 1967 "Six Day War," may retain captured land, until possession is modified by treaty. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uti_possidetis
In 2000 and again in 2008, Israeli governments offered return of 95% of captured land, to be supplemented with "land swaps" in exchange for peace. Yasser Arafat and Mahmoud Abbas ignored those offers without any counter-offers, or initiatives of their own.
As acceptance of those offers, or alternatively the Arab League Peace Plan, would constitute "de-facto" recognition of Israel's right to exist within "secure and recognized boundaries" per UNSCR 242 and 338, Palestinians prefer the status-quo.
When Palestinians are ready for peace and an independent state of their own, they will negotiate for them; until then, nothing need change!
In 2000 and again in 2008, Israeli governments offered return of 95% of captured land, to be supplemented with "land swaps" in exchange for peace. Yasser Arafat and Mahmoud Abbas ignored those offers without any counter-offers, or initiatives of their own.
As acceptance of those offers, or alternatively the Arab League Peace Plan, would constitute "de-facto" recognition of Israel's right to exist within "secure and recognized boundaries" per UNSCR 242 and 338, Palestinians prefer the status-quo.
When Palestinians are ready for peace and an independent state of their own, they will negotiate for them; until then, nothing need change!
1
How about giving Israel the best bunker buster available so that Iran has some deterrence and therefore motivation to comply with the agreement?
13
Allowing our most advanced weaponry to be used without our authorization, in opposition to our foreign policy and against our best judgment makes no sense at all.
4
Iran already has motivation to comply, it is the opportunity to once again become a part of the world community.
What's most important for maintaining Israel's security is indeed its relationship with the United States; but if the Israelis believe America is putting Iran on a pathway to a nuclear weapon, and the United States was supposed to be an enforcer in ensuring that this would never happen, then a rethink is needed. That's not my calculation, but it's likely theirs.
Surely the Board meant "while the Palestinians undermine stability by failing to negotiate peace with the Israelis," right? And sometimes threats ARE the best way for Washington to exert influence.
The Israeli government sees the Iranians as rational actors in pursuit of fundamentally irrational goals. The White House is the exact opposite, seeing Iran, however irrational it may at times behave, as pursuing fundamentally rational goals. So there's a basic bifurcation in perception.
We have, for the longest time, put spurious "stability" ahead of human rights and democracy in the Middle East (and elsewhere; sometimes for understandable, Greater-Good reasons). We are now facing a problem, which is that the people of the Middle East often do not esteem inclusivity. How does one license elections when the winners are often candidates who pursue majoritarianism? The Middle East must transition away from despotism. It's hard, but it is inevitable. Security won't last in freedom's absence. We can't support the world's Sisis in their provisioning of pro tem stability. Or at least we shouldn't.
Surely the Board meant "while the Palestinians undermine stability by failing to negotiate peace with the Israelis," right? And sometimes threats ARE the best way for Washington to exert influence.
The Israeli government sees the Iranians as rational actors in pursuit of fundamentally irrational goals. The White House is the exact opposite, seeing Iran, however irrational it may at times behave, as pursuing fundamentally rational goals. So there's a basic bifurcation in perception.
We have, for the longest time, put spurious "stability" ahead of human rights and democracy in the Middle East (and elsewhere; sometimes for understandable, Greater-Good reasons). We are now facing a problem, which is that the people of the Middle East often do not esteem inclusivity. How does one license elections when the winners are often candidates who pursue majoritarianism? The Middle East must transition away from despotism. It's hard, but it is inevitable. Security won't last in freedom's absence. We can't support the world's Sisis in their provisioning of pro tem stability. Or at least we shouldn't.
11
Neither the Republicans in Congress nor the Israelis want the nuclear agreement with Iran to succeed. If the agreement succeeds, it would take away their excuse for starting another war in the Middle East and it would show that diplomacy works better than war.
136
In discussions about the opposition to the Iran deal the issues are exclusively over whether it actually guarantees Iran will not build a bomb in the next 10 years.
However this misses the main problem with the deal. And that is that Iran's nuclear program was not about rushing to produce a primitive bomb in the next few years. The problem with Iran's nuclear program is that as of now Iran is still working in the R&D stage of how to design state of the art centrifuges. As the ayatollah declared that the plan is to have 190,000 centrifuges up and running in ten years, and those centrifuges are to be state of the art, not the first generation models that Iran has already figured out how to make.
And for this purpose Iran agreed to convert the underground Fordo facility exclusively for that purpose. In fact all of the nuclear product that Iran was producing now was simply the byproduct of this research and was never intended for use in building a bomb.
So Iran's nuclear program was never to build a primitive bomb. It was intended from the outset to develop a modern program with the stated purpose of, when completed, they will set up those 190,000 centrifuges with the ability to build as many bombs as they want.
So from the outset of the program the plan was to 1st build their bombs in 10 or 15 years. And therefore Iran gave up nothing with this deal, as the deal provides, and virtually guarantees, that when Iran is ready it can build as many bombs as it wants.
However this misses the main problem with the deal. And that is that Iran's nuclear program was not about rushing to produce a primitive bomb in the next few years. The problem with Iran's nuclear program is that as of now Iran is still working in the R&D stage of how to design state of the art centrifuges. As the ayatollah declared that the plan is to have 190,000 centrifuges up and running in ten years, and those centrifuges are to be state of the art, not the first generation models that Iran has already figured out how to make.
And for this purpose Iran agreed to convert the underground Fordo facility exclusively for that purpose. In fact all of the nuclear product that Iran was producing now was simply the byproduct of this research and was never intended for use in building a bomb.
So Iran's nuclear program was never to build a primitive bomb. It was intended from the outset to develop a modern program with the stated purpose of, when completed, they will set up those 190,000 centrifuges with the ability to build as many bombs as they want.
So from the outset of the program the plan was to 1st build their bombs in 10 or 15 years. And therefore Iran gave up nothing with this deal, as the deal provides, and virtually guarantees, that when Iran is ready it can build as many bombs as it wants.
10
Already been fact checked and prove wrong.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/sep/10/ted-cruz/...
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/sep/10/ted-cruz/...
Bibi knew that the Iran Nuclear Deal was coming and his whole hissy-fit was only so that he would be in a strong position to receive more support from the USA once it had been finalized. His actions were so transparent that it was ugly and lacked statesmanship, but then you have to respect the strategy, eh? I for one am excited to see what happens in the ME in the next 10 years with shifting powers and "new" players.
47
To me, John, Bibi's strategy was a variation of that old play/movie, "The Mouse That Roared".
President Obama has neither the time nor the inclination to repair relations with Israel. That will be the job of the next president and I'm sure she will handle it well.
13
Isn't it Israel's responsibility to repair relations with the US. How about we keep the next 25 billion and use it in the US.
4
Yes, Carly Fiorina will handle it well!
1
I'm sorry but are you saying that we or our congress, must reward Israel for interfering in our politics and undermining the US president? We know that Netanyahu hates president Obama, so why do we feel the need to pay him for his interference and hatred of an American president?
516
Doris, you ask why Netanyahu "interfered." If you had paid attention to Netanyahu's speech to Congress and other declarations of public persons who oppose the Iran deal, you would have realized that Israel is the Number One and closest target of Iran's aggression. Today Iran funds arms and rockets to the enemies of Israel in Gaza, Lebanon and Syria. I live in Israel and I am very satisfied that Netanyahu presented the case of Israel's citizens. If Iran were to send a nuclear bomb, it would destroy the lands of the Palestinian Authority and Hamas also, who Muslims would become sacrifices for the glory of destroying the Jewish state.
1
Doris, oh were it only that simple..
The US interferes in politics in almost every country. It's beyond hypocritical that we are offended that another country or non-US citizen has a point of view. The Pope right now is cajoling Washington DC on policy with respect to all kinds of issues. Should we say he hates America?
Israel is obsessive about security but they have good reason. And they are not any more reactionary than JFK was about missiles in Cuba which almost put us in a nuclear war with the USSR.
We support Israel because they are a democracy and they do carry many of the same core beliefs that we do about the relationship between government and its citizens. On a relative basis they are the only safe and consistent ally we have in the Middle East and likely provide us more insight on that region than any other country.
Netanyahu does not appear to like Obama but their disagreements are really around how to operate in the ME and the impact of those decisions fall much heavier on Israel than the US. Obama seems pretty cavalier about that fact and can be a risk taker which only increases concern and stress on the part of the Israelis. But putting personal feelings aside Obama seems to understand that Israel has been a consistent ally and they are an example of democracy in a ME ocean of dark dictatorships and worth supporting. Ultimately both of these players will be replaced and the relationship will likely strengthen.
Israel is obsessive about security but they have good reason. And they are not any more reactionary than JFK was about missiles in Cuba which almost put us in a nuclear war with the USSR.
We support Israel because they are a democracy and they do carry many of the same core beliefs that we do about the relationship between government and its citizens. On a relative basis they are the only safe and consistent ally we have in the Middle East and likely provide us more insight on that region than any other country.
Netanyahu does not appear to like Obama but their disagreements are really around how to operate in the ME and the impact of those decisions fall much heavier on Israel than the US. Obama seems pretty cavalier about that fact and can be a risk taker which only increases concern and stress on the part of the Israelis. But putting personal feelings aside Obama seems to understand that Israel has been a consistent ally and they are an example of democracy in a ME ocean of dark dictatorships and worth supporting. Ultimately both of these players will be replaced and the relationship will likely strengthen.
The NY Times opposes Congress formally authorizing the president to attack Iran militarily if Iran breaks the agreement, because “under law, presidents have wide latitude to take military action on their own.” This position conveniently glosses over the difficult question of when a president should engage in military action without congressional approval. We are clearly on firmer constitutional ground when Congress authorizes military action, rather than the President going it alone. President Obama has already engaged in what was clearly a war in Libya without congressional approval, the result of which has been a strategic and humanitarian disaster. The New York Times' deference in these matters is part and parcel to a consistent theme of according imperial powers to President Obama. The Times no longer sees the president as merely the commander-in-chief of the armed forces; he is now the commander-in-chief of the entire government, including Congress. In the brave new world envisioned here, the president is both the legislature and the executive, and Congress is nothing more than annoying bureaucracy that is only performing its rightful duty when it is providing complimentary funding and infrastructure to support the president’s will. For them, legislative language and intent, congressional oversight, ratification of treaties, and congressional war powers are all anachronisms to be swept away by the greater wisdom of our great leader.
5
The idea of vastly broader "Commander-in-Chief Powers" was created by the lawyers of the Bush Administration, not Obama, and not the NYT Editorial Board. It is a purely neocon idea, to which both objected.
At other times, Republicans have objected that Obama would NOT use those powers. For example, they abuse him for going to Congress before the proposed attack on Syria rather than unilaterally enforcing a "red line" using his Commander-in-Chief powers. Of course when asked they refused to support him, but not abuse him for asking instead of defying them to do it.
The complain about abuse of war powers and an "imperial Obama" expressed in this comment is purest hypocrisy, and entirely dishonest.
At other times, Republicans have objected that Obama would NOT use those powers. For example, they abuse him for going to Congress before the proposed attack on Syria rather than unilaterally enforcing a "red line" using his Commander-in-Chief powers. Of course when asked they refused to support him, but not abuse him for asking instead of defying them to do it.
The complain about abuse of war powers and an "imperial Obama" expressed in this comment is purest hypocrisy, and entirely dishonest.
47
Although there are several issues to deal with in this editorial, I will deal with only one now. The statement that "Israel undermines stability by failing to negotiate peace with the Palestinians" is simply wrong.
In order to negotiate, one must have a partner willing to negotiate. There is no Palestinian authority that has the power to do that. They are under the control of Hamas in Gaza, who continues to send rockets over Israel. In recent years, in the territories the Palestinians have shown no willingness to make a deal. They seem to be playing a waiting game hoping that Israel will be destroyed.
Again, for Israel to negotiate they must have willing partners. Perhaps the New York Times could help in this matter bu taking the Palestinians and their allies to task and giving Israel real partners for peace.
In order to negotiate, one must have a partner willing to negotiate. There is no Palestinian authority that has the power to do that. They are under the control of Hamas in Gaza, who continues to send rockets over Israel. In recent years, in the territories the Palestinians have shown no willingness to make a deal. They seem to be playing a waiting game hoping that Israel will be destroyed.
Again, for Israel to negotiate they must have willing partners. Perhaps the New York Times could help in this matter bu taking the Palestinians and their allies to task and giving Israel real partners for peace.
30
Israel is the occupier of Palestine. It is Israel's responsibility to make peace, meanwhile to treat the citizens of the occupied territory humanely.
5
Hamas has no willing negotiating partner either. The State of Israel is not now and has never been willing to negotiate in good faith. The IDF is under control of Likud, who continue to use it to send bullets and bombs into schools, homes and hospitals. They are playing a waiting game, not merely hoping that the Palestinian people will be destroyed, but actively destroying them with war, collective punishment and ethnic cleansing.
The State of Israel is as much at fault as is Hamas. Why only castigate the party with such little power, when the party with so much power is equally unwilling?
There will be no peace deal until we stop pretending that any side is in the right. We, and they, are all at fault for acting as though anyone in the conflict is justified in our, and their crimes.
The State of Israel is as much at fault as is Hamas. Why only castigate the party with such little power, when the party with so much power is equally unwilling?
There will be no peace deal until we stop pretending that any side is in the right. We, and they, are all at fault for acting as though anyone in the conflict is justified in our, and their crimes.
6
Typical excuse for not doing anything.....How would you like to negotiate with someone who controls your border, your budget, and does not respect any international conventions? Perhaps, you should look around and understand (?) why 99% of countries are not supporting anymore Israel's cause......the exception....of course, our exceptionalism
11
Wow , does any body know what to do? I am the first person posting on this opinion page after going to "Schul" for the final day of Yom Kippur. I would like Israel to be assured of safety but the haters come on this page and say Israel is not worth the money that the United States has given them to be a proxy for the U.S. in the region. The Iran nuclear deal is nonsense, there are so many countries that already have nuclear weapons that Iran can get a nuclear bomb from one of these countries. After 5776 years the Jews and the Persians are still quarrelling over past slights. when they threaten the United States it's time for concern. Happy New Year.
13
Israel can take care of itself. The US shouldn't be sending any military equipment to Israel until it complies with UN resolutions, forget about increasing the already huge burden the US taxpayer pays. Nor should Netanyahu get a reception at the Whitehouse.
222
maybe Iran can stop talking about destroying Israel? But Obama wants more pressure on Israel, so its forced to make suicidal concessions.
16
It is the continued USA blindness towards Israeli aggression in Palestine that will eventually lead to the disappearance of the current Israeli State.
6
Maybe Israel can stop actually destroying the Palestinians?
Peace is the opposite of suicide.
Peace is the opposite of suicide.
4
But it's okay for Israel to talk about having its proxy, the US, destroy Iran?
5
The strained relations between the U.S. and Israel arise in part from different perceptions of the best way to cope with a resurgent and belligerent Iran. It is idle to deny, however, that the mutual distrust that defines the attitudes of Obama and Netanyahu also plays a major role. The Israeli prime minister's illusion that he could influence the presidential election of 2012 sharpened the hostility without accomplishing anything.
Netanyahu's visceal dislike of Mr. Obama reinforces a narrow conception of Israeli security, according to which any willingness to compromise in negotiations with the Palestinians betrays a weakness which his country's enemies can exploit. That same narrowness of vision encourages the Israeli government to view a strong, independent Iran as an intolerable threat, an outlook shared by most Republicans in Congress. This attitude caused both to interpret Obama's willingness to negotiate with the mullahs as evidence of his fatal weakness.
Consequently, no amount of aid showered on Israel, no strengthening of the alliance between the two countries, could conciliate Netanhayu. For him, only an emasculated Iran and a Republican administration in Washington could temporarily quiet the anxieties concerning Israel's vulnerability. But this outcome, by discouraging a settlement of the Palestinian conflict, would not serve Israel's long-term interests. A PM not blinded by dislike of Obama might be able to see this.
Netanyahu's visceal dislike of Mr. Obama reinforces a narrow conception of Israeli security, according to which any willingness to compromise in negotiations with the Palestinians betrays a weakness which his country's enemies can exploit. That same narrowness of vision encourages the Israeli government to view a strong, independent Iran as an intolerable threat, an outlook shared by most Republicans in Congress. This attitude caused both to interpret Obama's willingness to negotiate with the mullahs as evidence of his fatal weakness.
Consequently, no amount of aid showered on Israel, no strengthening of the alliance between the two countries, could conciliate Netanhayu. For him, only an emasculated Iran and a Republican administration in Washington could temporarily quiet the anxieties concerning Israel's vulnerability. But this outcome, by discouraging a settlement of the Palestinian conflict, would not serve Israel's long-term interests. A PM not blinded by dislike of Obama might be able to see this.
213
Netanyahu's bad behavior long predated Obama.
Netanyahu was a major force in the incitement that culminated in the assassination of Israeli PM Rabin. Rabin's wife said so loudly and often, and was quite bitter about it. She had every reason to feel so.
Netanyahu promised to "defeat Oslo" before ever becoming PM, and he has.
This is not about Obama. It is about one of the premier neocons, who led to the Bush tragedy here too. Netanyahu is one of the bad actors in the world today. There is no way to sugar coat his malign influence on everything.
Netanyahu was a major force in the incitement that culminated in the assassination of Israeli PM Rabin. Rabin's wife said so loudly and often, and was quite bitter about it. She had every reason to feel so.
Netanyahu promised to "defeat Oslo" before ever becoming PM, and he has.
This is not about Obama. It is about one of the premier neocons, who led to the Bush tragedy here too. Netanyahu is one of the bad actors in the world today. There is no way to sugar coat his malign influence on everything.
69
How did the 6 million Palestinians under Israeli dominion vote in the last Israeli election?
How many nuclear weapons and their delivery systems does Israel have?
How many nuclear weapons and their delivery systems does Israel have?
3
The president's track record has demonstrated that Obama's promises to use force "if necessary" are worthless. Now no one in the Middle East or Europe, friend or foe, trusts the U.S. Denying Israel the only weapon that threatens Iran's deep underground nuclear resources is essentially a guarantee to Iran that no one will threaten them with force. The Times Board once again demonstrates its animus towards Israel and its support of the futile policies of this administration.
63
Oh please. The American People would be FURIOUS if we went to war on behalf of Netanyahu's Israel. If Israel kicked this obnoxious man off the stage and stopped stealing land, it might do a little to repair what Netanyahu has so effectively shattered: Americans' perception of right wing Israel. Watching the Palestinians shoot guns in the air to celebrate the destruction of the World Trade Center, and now watching millions of Muslim migrants force flood Europe is equally repellent. I would love it if we washed our hands of the ENTIRE Mideast. I don't see any players in the region with whom I can have the slightest empathy, except, perhaps, Israelis who voted to dump Netanyahu
3
When, "NRoad," was force against Iran "necessary?"
To the best of my knowledge, Iran has neither built a bomb nor nuked Israel.
Perhaps it is your animus towards critics of immoral Zionist irredentism that needs to be scrutinized?
To the best of my knowledge, Iran has neither built a bomb nor nuked Israel.
Perhaps it is your animus towards critics of immoral Zionist irredentism that needs to be scrutinized?
4
Which track record? Raid to get Osama, drone strikes all over to get other terrorists, surge in Afghanistan, extending the mission in Afghanistan, US forces fighting ISIL and training and financing others to do the same, pretty much all counter to what he said he would do and what his own party wants.
1
"... For Iran to curb it's nuclear program..."
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/03/world/americas/03iht-cia.5.8573960.html
Strange isn't it?
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/03/world/americas/03iht-cia.5.8573960.html
Strange isn't it?
3
It is a little difficult following this editorial's reasoning. What America must do to reassure Israel and it American supporters is: not supply Israel with a MOP, not authorize the president in advance to use force in case Iran violates the deal, not increase American aid to Israel (even though lamentably it is probably inevitable hat it will be increased), and not have Congress impose restrictions on the agreement with Iran. But America should reassure Israel and it American supporters by reminding Israel that it undermines stability by failing to negotiate peace with the Palestinians. And just how is this combination supposed to achieve its goal?
38
The Times misrepresents the facts in asserting that Mr. Netanyahu refuses to negotiate with Palestinians. Contrary to his previous campaign rhetoric, he has announced a willingness to negotiate without preconditions. It is Mr. Abbas who insists on using the insecure pre-1967 boundaries as a baseline for negotiations. Perhaps, Mr. Netanyahu should insist on abandonment of any so-called "right of return," for Israel to accept Mr. Abbas' precondition. That would be an appropriate test of Mr. Abbas' sincerity!
The Executive Agreement (A Treaty requires two-thirds of the Senate for ratification.) between Presidents Rouhani and Obama, will remain in effect as long as the two hold office, if not re-adopted by their successors. At best, if continued for its full term, it kicks the can down the road for 15 years, allowing Iran to resume unrestricted enrichment of weapons grade uranium and plutonium in 2030.
As a U.N. member nation-state, Israel, as any others, is entitled to an "inherent right of individual, or collective self-defense," as recognized under Article 51 of the United Nations Charter. As was the case on June 5, 1967, nothing precludes Israel from acting preemptively when war becomes imminent. She need not wait for an enemy to strike the first blow before acting defensively. While the agreement between Iran and the U.S. is concluded, it may not endure and does not bind Israel, which is not a party.
The Executive Agreement (A Treaty requires two-thirds of the Senate for ratification.) between Presidents Rouhani and Obama, will remain in effect as long as the two hold office, if not re-adopted by their successors. At best, if continued for its full term, it kicks the can down the road for 15 years, allowing Iran to resume unrestricted enrichment of weapons grade uranium and plutonium in 2030.
As a U.N. member nation-state, Israel, as any others, is entitled to an "inherent right of individual, or collective self-defense," as recognized under Article 51 of the United Nations Charter. As was the case on June 5, 1967, nothing precludes Israel from acting preemptively when war becomes imminent. She need not wait for an enemy to strike the first blow before acting defensively. While the agreement between Iran and the U.S. is concluded, it may not endure and does not bind Israel, which is not a party.
20
The current US administration has repeatedly proven to be an untrustworthy partner to Israel. The demise of the healthy relationship enjoyed between these two nations falls squarely on the shoulders of our president. From politics to the personal, Mr. Obama's treatment of Israel's elected leader has been embarrassing.
20
Yes untrustworthy partners always supply 25 billion dollars in military aid. Money, I personally, would rather see spent here at home. It is Mr. Netanyahu who shows disrespect to my tax dollars.
12
And Netanyahu's visit to Congress, on the Republican's invitation, without the President being told, was respectful? Netanyahu is a bully who has tried repeatedly to interfere with the politics in this country. The Congressional visit was just his latest shenanigan. This is the same Netanyahu, by the way, who is featured in the new documentary about assassinated Israeli Prime Minister Rabin. Before the assassination Netanyahu was giving inflammatory speeches, with Rabin pictured in a Nazi uniform. The thought that we are giving billions to support this government, and it was our money which helped supply the weapons that killed the Palistinian children last summer, sickens me. Why should we continue to give billions of dollars of aid to his government, while cutting programs here? It makes no sense whatsoever.
9
And for Bibi to renounce the President in the speech delivered in the US congress is the height of statesmanship.
7
I'd be a little surprised if Bibi bothered scheduling another tête-à-tête with President Obama for the duration of this administration. What would be the point? To obtain MOP? Shortly after 20 January 2017, regardless of who is elected our next president, that super-bomb likely will be on its way to Israel. To align approaches to containing Iran? Israel understandably no longer trusts American foreign policy, which by the by is conducted by the president and not by a far more sympathetic Congress, to effectively contain ANY inimical interests anywhere on Earth, forget about Iran. They'll be making their own plans, and it's an interesting question whether or not they'll share them with the Obama Administration.
I simply disagree that the relationship between the U.S. and Israel was endangered by Netanyahu's interaction with congressional Republicans. What put that relationship at risk was the clear placement of an Obama legacy deal with Iran higher in priority than the security of our Middle Eastern allies. Just that simple. Netanyahu's actions were merely an understandable attempt to minimize the damage to that security posture to Israel -- in other words, his job.
I'd ask the editors to stand back and consider their clear presumption that American interests are properly defined only by Democrats and not at least as well by Republicans, the majority party in both houses of Congress.
I simply disagree that the relationship between the U.S. and Israel was endangered by Netanyahu's interaction with congressional Republicans. What put that relationship at risk was the clear placement of an Obama legacy deal with Iran higher in priority than the security of our Middle Eastern allies. Just that simple. Netanyahu's actions were merely an understandable attempt to minimize the damage to that security posture to Israel -- in other words, his job.
I'd ask the editors to stand back and consider their clear presumption that American interests are properly defined only by Democrats and not at least as well by Republicans, the majority party in both houses of Congress.
14
The Editorial Board of the New York Times is asking the U.S. to trust Iran. How
can the U.S. trust a country that held our embassy for 444 days in 1979, and
today holds four of our citizens hostage? The rants for destruction of the U.S.
and Israel continue through the cities of Iran. What is disturbing is the
complete trust in Iran and its leaders by the Times. Outside of Israel, democracy is dead in the Middle East. and when the current, aging leaders of Iran leave the world stage, there is simply no way to predict, any treaty will be
observed. Obama is leaving the U.S. with the same legacy that Chamberlain
left Great Britain in 1938. Peace in our time.
can the U.S. trust a country that held our embassy for 444 days in 1979, and
today holds four of our citizens hostage? The rants for destruction of the U.S.
and Israel continue through the cities of Iran. What is disturbing is the
complete trust in Iran and its leaders by the Times. Outside of Israel, democracy is dead in the Middle East. and when the current, aging leaders of Iran leave the world stage, there is simply no way to predict, any treaty will be
observed. Obama is leaving the U.S. with the same legacy that Chamberlain
left Great Britain in 1938. Peace in our time.
20
Perhaps you are not aware that OUR CIA overthrew a legitimately-elected government in Iran and replaced it with the vicious dictatorial "Shah" because the legitimately-elected head of that Iranian government proposed to look over the books of the western oil corporations that were looting the country. This is a hornets' nest of our own capitalist corporatioins' making. But if you really want to fight Iran, I'll lend you a gun if you promise to go over there and not come back until you have "won."
4
Israel is not a democracy as long as it denies the most basic rights to the people it has effectively annexed.
4
I always find this kind of argument puzzling. Are you completely unaware of the US' history with Iran? How the US overthrew democracy in Iran and installed the Shah and created his brutal secret service, the SAVAK, which tortured and maimed people on a regular basis? If Americans are going to go on and on about the hostage taking, then at least have the consistency to recognize that if that one event upsets you so much and justifies your hostility to Iran, Iran has so many greater reasons for its hostility towards the US.
5
The Israeli Prime Minister actively works to thwart our President's foreign policy initiatives by colluding with Republicans, and now "America must do" this and that to reassure Israel? Now that's Chutzpah.
How about Israel reassuring America that we continue to share the same values rather than pursing a path of Apartheid. That is the true security risk to Israel. Peace cannot be built upon a foundation of injustice. No Justice, no Peace.
How about Israel reassuring America that we continue to share the same values rather than pursing a path of Apartheid. That is the true security risk to Israel. Peace cannot be built upon a foundation of injustice. No Justice, no Peace.
286
Netanyahu a Repub cahooter
A notorious his-own-horn-tooter,
A hawk who hates dealing
Foot dragging appealing,
The Iran deal would love to neuter.
Assisting in making it work?
A chore he'd be eager to shirk,
A hardened right winger
To Adelson clinger
Who behind the scenes does still lurk.
A notorious his-own-horn-tooter,
A hawk who hates dealing
Foot dragging appealing,
The Iran deal would love to neuter.
Assisting in making it work?
A chore he'd be eager to shirk,
A hardened right winger
To Adelson clinger
Who behind the scenes does still lurk.
122
Great poem; very creative.
1
>
The rightwing of Israel will not stop until they drag us into a war with their paranoid obsession of Iran and their stand your ground military policy.
So the more distant we put between Israel and us the better.
Stand your ground is here within defined as: if you "think", feel....your neighbor or a person, and in this specific case a country, "may" do something physically violent against you, you have the right before that action even actually takes place to negate it via force. Yes this is insane thinking. For example: I think my neighbor wants to kill me, so I killed him first. One sees the madness immediately with it.
A war with Iran will make the recent Afghan and Iraq wars look like child's play.
The word "think" is the critical word here.
The rightwing of Israel will not stop until they drag us into a war with their paranoid obsession of Iran and their stand your ground military policy.
So the more distant we put between Israel and us the better.
Stand your ground is here within defined as: if you "think", feel....your neighbor or a person, and in this specific case a country, "may" do something physically violent against you, you have the right before that action even actually takes place to negate it via force. Yes this is insane thinking. For example: I think my neighbor wants to kill me, so I killed him first. One sees the madness immediately with it.
A war with Iran will make the recent Afghan and Iraq wars look like child's play.
The word "think" is the critical word here.
167
What is the point of the Iran deal if we're going to have to go on our knees to Israel begging to be able to give them more money? Why don't we just skip a year or two of aid to teach them a lesson about where their bread is actually buttered? Remember, they have no other friends.
499
There's actually Russia and China, who are actually relevant in the Middle East if the US seriously takes up your suggestion and Israel needs to find new friends.
1
That's the chutzpah of Netanyahu and all the fanatical defenders of Israel. Which other country provides aid and support to Israel? This country has the least support of any country in that region and is not admired in Europe. Netanyahu should rethink his tactics. He and his countrymen and supporters cannot use the same bullying tactics they engage in the ME to browbeat our country. He needs to stand back or go harass some other world leader. The US grows weary of his disprespectful attitude and sense of entitlement.
3
Or why don't we stop all aid to prosperous Israel? Isn't 20 billion dollars enough? We need our tax dollars to address urgent needs of Americans. By continuing to send billions of dollars a year to Israels war machine, we are enabling the Israeli right wingers to take us to the brink of world war 3.
6
Will Israel attack USA again?
The USS Liberty incident was an attack on a United States Navy technical research ship, USS Liberty, by Israeli Air Force jet fighter aircraft and Israeli Navy motor torpedo boats, on 8 June 1967, during the Six-Day War.The combined air and sea attack killed 34 crew members (naval officers, seamen, two Marines, and one civilian), wounded 171 crew members, and severely damaged the ship.[4] At the time, the ship was in international waters north of the Sinai Peninsula, about 25.5 nmi (29.3 mi; 47.2 km) northwest from the Egyptian city of Arish.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident
The USS Liberty incident was an attack on a United States Navy technical research ship, USS Liberty, by Israeli Air Force jet fighter aircraft and Israeli Navy motor torpedo boats, on 8 June 1967, during the Six-Day War.The combined air and sea attack killed 34 crew members (naval officers, seamen, two Marines, and one civilian), wounded 171 crew members, and severely damaged the ship.[4] At the time, the ship was in international waters north of the Sinai Peninsula, about 25.5 nmi (29.3 mi; 47.2 km) northwest from the Egyptian city of Arish.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident
148
We should have broken off relations with Israel then and there. If any other country had done that, we'd have gone to war that day.
2
Scary thought since Bibi has atom as well as hydrogen bombs!
5
And this is the country America should trust and keep close to our vest? Israel would turn on us on a dime. Theirs will forever be the burden of looking over their shoulders in a region they forceably took and justified under biblical rights. Israel, imo, should never have planted itself as a state in enemy territory. That is one of the most irrational, voluntary action any group of people could have made. Forever, they must watch their backs and intimidate other countries to come to their desperate aid and support. How much nuclear and other weaponry is enought and for how long can they keep this up? Stop the West Bank settlements and try to reconcile with your neighbors. Your choices are not America's problems. We have plenty here.
7
"Saudi Arabia shares much blame for the rise of extremist groups, while Israel undermines stability by failing to negotiate peace with the Palestinians".
The famous NYT proportionality. Al Qaeda is a Saudi invention, and Wahhabism can morph into Al Qaeda and even ISIS in their literal understanding of the Koran. Indeed they did.
This is then compared with Israel at fault for not negotiating a peace with the Palestinians. And what about the Palestinians? it takes two to diplomatically tango. A negotiated deal alas must fulfill the needs not only of the Palestinians, or the NYT editorial board, but also of Israel. It is not a matter of: why does Israel finally just not negotiate a peace? The Palestinians have had viable options on the table which they turned turned. They don't like Mr. Netanyahu. Too bad, that's what there is and they too must show willingness to negotiate now.
"In the end, what's most important for Israel's security is the relationship with the United States." While the editorial blames Mr. Netanyahu and Republicans, the Obama administration comes out squeaky clean without even a mention of fault.
"A crucial sense of trust needs to be rebuilt". This will happen only if the Obama administration realizes that in this case too it takes two to tango in rebuilding trust. The average Israeli, even those with no love for Mr. Netanyahu, simply do not trust the Obama administration. Why? The Obama administration has its work cut out for it in this sphere.
The famous NYT proportionality. Al Qaeda is a Saudi invention, and Wahhabism can morph into Al Qaeda and even ISIS in their literal understanding of the Koran. Indeed they did.
This is then compared with Israel at fault for not negotiating a peace with the Palestinians. And what about the Palestinians? it takes two to diplomatically tango. A negotiated deal alas must fulfill the needs not only of the Palestinians, or the NYT editorial board, but also of Israel. It is not a matter of: why does Israel finally just not negotiate a peace? The Palestinians have had viable options on the table which they turned turned. They don't like Mr. Netanyahu. Too bad, that's what there is and they too must show willingness to negotiate now.
"In the end, what's most important for Israel's security is the relationship with the United States." While the editorial blames Mr. Netanyahu and Republicans, the Obama administration comes out squeaky clean without even a mention of fault.
"A crucial sense of trust needs to be rebuilt". This will happen only if the Obama administration realizes that in this case too it takes two to tango in rebuilding trust. The average Israeli, even those with no love for Mr. Netanyahu, simply do not trust the Obama administration. Why? The Obama administration has its work cut out for it in this sphere.
33
While it is true that Hamas is the greater danger to peace, the rise of the ultra-right-wing in Israel has been consistently alienating liberal American Jews for a couple of decades. Why should America give money to help support a country that allows its ultra-orthodox to live as parasites on the body politic?
2
To Joshua Schwartz: Yes, as you say, it takes "two to tango." Only Israel isn't "tangoing." The concussion grenade thrown at a CHILD the other day wasn't "tangoing," nor was the very recent fire-bombing of a Palestinian family, killing all but one. Maintaining an Apartheid regime is not "tangoing." Warmongering is not "tangoing." Shame on you.
9
According to studies, 40% of American children go to bed hungry while we have spent 25 Billions in 6 years to finance Israel's war machine. And now, the warmongering nation wants more money, and legislation to pave the way for a future war they intend to bring about no matter what.
What is it they have over our heads?
What is it they have over our heads?
585
"What is it they have over our heads?"
The NSA domestic espionage data our government *also* directly gives them (which gives #nofilter new meaning).
The NSA domestic espionage data our government *also* directly gives them (which gives #nofilter new meaning).
1
"40% of American children go to bed hungry "
Yeah, hungry for more dessert.
Yeah, hungry for more dessert.
4
Well you know the answer WestSider; money showered broadly over our Congress by the best lobbying machine money can buy - the AIPAC!
6
$25 billion in "military aid"? Just since 2009? That is obscene, and in a sane, moral country would lead to outrage.
409
Tell it to the South Koreans who could use the anti-missile technology developed by Israel with US financial backing. Tell it to Poland and others who seek missile shields as protection. In any event, U.S. funds are not given "carte blanche" but with strict limitations.
The bottom line remains unchanged: if the Arab countries abandoned their theologically fueled opposition (the nationalist, anti-imperialist language was a later Soviet contribution) to the reality that their former third-class subjects have successfully re-established their sovereignty in their historical homeland, such military aid would no longer be necessary and all parties could benefit from the subsequent peace - assuming the region's various Muslim tribal groups could see their way clear to stop murdering one another.
The bottom line remains unchanged: if the Arab countries abandoned their theologically fueled opposition (the nationalist, anti-imperialist language was a later Soviet contribution) to the reality that their former third-class subjects have successfully re-established their sovereignty in their historical homeland, such military aid would no longer be necessary and all parties could benefit from the subsequent peace - assuming the region's various Muslim tribal groups could see their way clear to stop murdering one another.
3
Consider the billions the Saudis and the Gulf States pour into Al-queda etc.
Consider the billions the arabs pour into building schools whose entire curriculum is hate for Israel and western civilization.
Consider the palestinians who take european donor money and teach nothing but hate and weapons training in their schools
Consider the Pakistanis who have poured at least hundreds of millions into the Taliban to kill Americans
Finally, consider the Iranians and their billions creating Hezbollah and myriad other terror groups.
Our billions just attempt to counter their billions. As a taxpayer, I am perfectly content to see my money used in this way to counter islamic terror.
Consider the billions the arabs pour into building schools whose entire curriculum is hate for Israel and western civilization.
Consider the palestinians who take european donor money and teach nothing but hate and weapons training in their schools
Consider the Pakistanis who have poured at least hundreds of millions into the Taliban to kill Americans
Finally, consider the Iranians and their billions creating Hezbollah and myriad other terror groups.
Our billions just attempt to counter their billions. As a taxpayer, I am perfectly content to see my money used in this way to counter islamic terror.
2
At the same time, I'm sure you supported trillions being spent in Afghanistan and Iraq to "protect" their interests.
2
The real deal is that fossil fuels, which have driven much of the fighting in the Middle East, are coming to an end of their usefulness. The air has gone out of the conflict, and has left the region sharply outlining old hurts of religious bigotry and struggles for power over. War profiteers struggle to hold on to their market share. Banks work to maintain the value of their stock, with 30% of their wealth dependent on fossil fuels not yet burned and on lending to sustain fighting. Fossil fuel corporations are having to make major shifts, extremely reluctantly to the new reality of very real alternatives of energy, clean, and extremely cheap once built out. Wars burn fuel as well, not making it much of an incentive to make peace. It is a big hope that Iraq and Syria can go back to raising figs, and Saudia Arabia's desserts will supply solar power instead of oil. But with the infrastructure of the entire Middle East blown to smithereens by bombings for over a decade, and refugees fleeing the impossible conditions, it is time we focus our efforts on peace. This means Israel must turn their swords into plowshares, as most of us in the world, will need to do the same. And Iran must be given a chance to be its best self. Instead of weapons, we need to rebuild Palestine and end the apartheid that exists there. Israeli's are sick of war, as are most people in the entire Middle East. And this American is sick of it too.
309
Yes, a good start. Some form of a peace conference over the Middle East needs to take shape. The West can help bring it into being but the players in the region have to own it. What happens to them and their economies when the oil runs out or simply becomes too expensive to use? They are at a perilous moment that can either become a smoking ruin or the jumping off point of a great era. But we and they can't remain on square one much longer.
3
If the Iran nuclear deal was mainly to ensure peace and stability in the volatile Middle East under the UN and international watch how the purpose is going to be served if Israel is showered with more lethal weapons and economic largesse by the US just to appease it's hurt ego on the deal? Would it not amount to replacing the pre-deal Iran threat by a new threat to the region by Israel, just because it's the privileged ally of the US? From that logic, should Russia too start arming its allies in the region to allay their real or imaginary fears of Israel?
468
Pals were offered a State in 1947 and threw it away for more war and have not stopped one day since
Gazans were offered a land where they were without Jews and offered peace and turned into a rocket launch pad and fired 10000 rockets
and you think giving Israelis self-defense is warmongering
ISIS beheads Muslims and enslaves women and mass murders people in sit areas and you blame Israel for war mongering
nice to know how your brain works
Iran rallies 'death to Israel' death to the great Satan death to lithe little Satan and you blame Israel
go for it
Gazans were offered a land where they were without Jews and offered peace and turned into a rocket launch pad and fired 10000 rockets
and you think giving Israelis self-defense is warmongering
ISIS beheads Muslims and enslaves women and mass murders people in sit areas and you blame Israel for war mongering
nice to know how your brain works
Iran rallies 'death to Israel' death to the great Satan death to lithe little Satan and you blame Israel
go for it
21
First of all, Russia has started arming its allies in the area. The massive Russian military buildup of the Mass Murdering, Chemical Weapon using Assad regime over the last weeks, boosts an Iranian supported regime that helps supply Hizbollah to throw bombs on Israel. Like any good bully, Russia and Iran understood that America allowing Assad to cross its Red Lines meant a way to take advantage of a weakened US.
Secondly, this may be a bit hard for non-Israelis to understand, but the vast majority of Israelis fully believe the continued threats from Iran to wipe Israel off the map. We are celebrating the 70th anniversary of the end of the "Going Away Party" that Europe arranged for its Jewish population and I hope that you can understand that threats from governments to do away with the State of Israel have to be taken as an honest threat to the lives of all the citizens of this country. So this is not a problem of "ego", but a basic problem of existence.
Secondly, this may be a bit hard for non-Israelis to understand, but the vast majority of Israelis fully believe the continued threats from Iran to wipe Israel off the map. We are celebrating the 70th anniversary of the end of the "Going Away Party" that Europe arranged for its Jewish population and I hope that you can understand that threats from governments to do away with the State of Israel have to be taken as an honest threat to the lives of all the citizens of this country. So this is not a problem of "ego", but a basic problem of existence.
16
Israel, the only nuclear power in the Middle East, do not threaten any nation and uses it as a dissuasive weapon. Iran does not have nuclear bombs, but threatens to destroy Israel
5