I had the pleasure of growing up in Brooklyn and Miami in the 1960's. I used to sell pretzels during the summer and on weekends during the school year. The place I bought them was also a bagel bakery. It was on Starr Street. There wasn't a lot of difference in the dough and they used to same belted oven. I bought the pretzels for 2¢ and sold them for 5¢. Sundays we went over and waited for them to come out, so hot they burned your hands. And there weren't all these flavors like today. They were dense and very chewy.
In Miami There was bakery on South Beach. The bagels came up at 7AM and we'd get a dozen and some cream cheese lox and an onion and then go home to sleep. I remember that all the people working there had numbers tattooed on their arms. This would be about 1967.
I had a customer here who baked bagels for Sara Lee and a local supermarket chain. They steamed them for proofing before baking. They were passable but they weren't bagels.
I don't believe I've had a real bagel since I left Miami. Now I want one. Where to get one?
In Miami There was bakery on South Beach. The bagels came up at 7AM and we'd get a dozen and some cream cheese lox and an onion and then go home to sleep. I remember that all the people working there had numbers tattooed on their arms. This would be about 1967.
I had a customer here who baked bagels for Sara Lee and a local supermarket chain. They steamed them for proofing before baking. They were passable but they weren't bagels.
I don't believe I've had a real bagel since I left Miami. Now I want one. Where to get one?
6
Thanks to Lender's, premechanization, New Haven was one of the few cities outside New York or Montreal where nonJewish people were familiar with the word "bagel" in the 60s.
Fascinating to see the feelings, both positive and negative, that Thompson's bagel-making machine provokes in everyone's comments.
Dan and Ada were my next-door neighbors growing up and I thought I'd just chime in to say that they were unfailingly kind and welcoming to me when I was a boy. They were my grandparents' age. Ada was always quick with a cookie (almost always biscotti) and Dan was patient and encouraging.
I remember Dan always in his workshop garage, tinkering. He was proud of his inventions, an advocate for the spirit of invention and proud, too, of his service in WWII.
As we remembered Dan last night over dinner, my mother recalled that Dan and his sons would roll out their ping-pong table every weekend for their regular match on the side yard.
I couldn't have asked for a kinder couple as neighbors and I wanted that said among all the other comments
Dan and Ada were my next-door neighbors growing up and I thought I'd just chime in to say that they were unfailingly kind and welcoming to me when I was a boy. They were my grandparents' age. Ada was always quick with a cookie (almost always biscotti) and Dan was patient and encouraging.
I remember Dan always in his workshop garage, tinkering. He was proud of his inventions, an advocate for the spirit of invention and proud, too, of his service in WWII.
As we remembered Dan last night over dinner, my mother recalled that Dan and his sons would roll out their ping-pong table every weekend for their regular match on the side yard.
I couldn't have asked for a kinder couple as neighbors and I wanted that said among all the other comments
20
Oh yes...there was a time when bagels were real! My father had a little grocery/delicatessen store in CT, and the bagels and hard-rolls, and onion pletzels, and bialys sat in bins in the window, beckoning customers to come in for a nosh. I loved dropping in after school for a bagel...and they were definitely hard to bite into, unsliced. But I was a kid and didn't think I'd ever worry about my teeth falling out when biting into them! When bagels showed up, massed produced, after one bite I was totally dismayed. But when I moved to the upper Westside in the 1970's, you could still get real bagels on Broadway. I have no idea if there are still real bagel shops in NY...there sure aren't where i live in New Mexico. But such fond memories of such great bagels, which came in only 3 varieties - plain, onion, or seeded. Nothing else, which is just as it should be.
3
I've long referred to such pre-packaged, mass-market faux bagels as "goygels".
7
JF, have you been to Northfield or Mankato recently? Try out Tandem Bagels. We are a locally owned and operated bagel shop... formed, boiled and baked fresh daily.
2
The travesty that is the modern, flavorless bagel may be attributed to the rise of the use of frozen dough, dough conditioners, less-expensive low-gluten flours, added fats, bromine, low baking temperatures, a failure to boil before baking, and/or lack of baker skill, but it isn't because of the machine used. I don't see anyone berating the inventor of, say, the electric dough mixer or the natural-gas-fired oven for instigating an unstoppable cascade of poor bagel quality. (And do you know how hard it would be to mix a stiff bagel dough by hand?)
Rest easy Mr. Thompson, you did good.
(I actually did rise before 5AM this morning to bake bagels.)
Rest easy Mr. Thompson, you did good.
(I actually did rise before 5AM this morning to bake bagels.)
12
Bravo! I wrote a comment last night about our bagel shop, Tandem Bagels, in Mankato, Minnesota. We have a bagel forming machine but use all the good stuff, none of the artificial frozen stuff, and we boil ours as well. Indeed, Mr. Thompson, rest in peace, and John K. - I hope to have one of your bagels!
4
BAGELS Finding an authentic one in this day and age of mechanization is becoming increasingly more difficult. That and the fact that many people prefer either softer, more homogenized bagels and others prefer, for a good chew and complex flavor, to seek out customized hand-made boules, baguettes and batards that rise three times in cold conditions. I miss the bagels of my youth that were boiled, chewy and dense. I also miss other disappearing varieties of traditional Jewish ethnic breads, such as sourdough rye, pumpernickel and marble bread. For the Jewish New Year, some bakeries used to make huge round loaves of pumpernickel with loads of white raisins under the top crust. But things change. So I content myself with satisfying my craving for chewy specialty breads to looking elsewhere, since bagels have become light, ethereal and evanescent.
6
My Grandfather and I would take the train down to Coney Island to buy pickles. They were in barrels and the owner reached into them and pulled them out to fill a bucket. We'd buy 4-5 buckets per trip plus a potato salad that you can't find outside of NYC with a unique flavor, very white looking and cole slaw and sauerkraut.
All that stuff seems to be gone today.
All that stuff seems to be gone today.
4
That was the death of the bagel. I was a kettleman and a baker, and this machine destroyed the industry and the delicious, real bagel. It also put a lot of bakers out of work.
7
Not certain this story is entirely true, but the reason the bagel has morphed into the large, doughy item it is today, is because the original bagel (a much smaller bagel with a somewhat hard crust) was impossible to use in making a typical sandwich with meat, lettuce and dressing. One bite on that sandwich and the stuff in the middle would squeeze right out the other end!
My grandmother made bagels--tough little things with a hole in the center. Your mouth was exhausted before you finished it.
My grandmother made bagels--tough little things with a hole in the center. Your mouth was exhausted before you finished it.
12
Wonder what do Dunkin Donuts here in MA, use Tomane their bagels? Pretty decent when you are in a rush..
The history of the bagel told through the life of one man who, some say, destroyed it. Who knew there was bagel makers union?
7
I remember rye breads and pumpernickels with union stickers on, during the early 1960s in Bridgeport, CT.
4
BAGELS AND PHILIP LARKIN
Unsweetened doughnuts that are now made by machine
against which bagel purists to this day inveigle
taste best with lox and cream cheese and of course caffeine
to enhance the flavor of the holey bagel.
Its dough should never be most difficult to chew,
stiff as a corpse that sadly suffers rigor mortis,
and though it won’t turn any goy into a Jew,
it may help gentiles catch up just like Aesop’s tortoise
all being slower in a lot of ways than Yidden,
provided that they don’t use jam or marmalade
or bacon, which is not OK and totally forbidden!---
to eat a food that sadly is no more handmade.
The bottom line is: neither species should indulge
with bagel greed excessively their appetite,
because their major complication, belly bulge,
gives loving spouses and most doctors a great fright.
Whenever you remember Thompson, Daniel,
and Lender’s who’re successfully trademarkin’
a food whose manufacture should be manual,
recall that Daniel came from Hull, like Philip Larkin,
who implied that home is sad because its flavor stays
as it once was before the time we left
behind us memories of vanished tasty days
of which like hand-made bagels we become bereft.
[email protected]
Unsweetened doughnuts that are now made by machine
against which bagel purists to this day inveigle
taste best with lox and cream cheese and of course caffeine
to enhance the flavor of the holey bagel.
Its dough should never be most difficult to chew,
stiff as a corpse that sadly suffers rigor mortis,
and though it won’t turn any goy into a Jew,
it may help gentiles catch up just like Aesop’s tortoise
all being slower in a lot of ways than Yidden,
provided that they don’t use jam or marmalade
or bacon, which is not OK and totally forbidden!---
to eat a food that sadly is no more handmade.
The bottom line is: neither species should indulge
with bagel greed excessively their appetite,
because their major complication, belly bulge,
gives loving spouses and most doctors a great fright.
Whenever you remember Thompson, Daniel,
and Lender’s who’re successfully trademarkin’
a food whose manufacture should be manual,
recall that Daniel came from Hull, like Philip Larkin,
who implied that home is sad because its flavor stays
as it once was before the time we left
behind us memories of vanished tasty days
of which like hand-made bagels we become bereft.
[email protected]
6
I have never had the opportunity to taste a traditional bagel and would like to try one. The bagels I have tried are dull and Lender's bagels are awful. A good doughnut is a guilty pleasure, however.
3
I agree. I have never liked bagels and while reading this I was wondering if a real, handmade bagel would change my mind.
2
Montreal has the best traditional bagel bakeries. The bagels come out of a coal-fired oven, one by one, and trundle along a conveyor belt until they fall into baskets at the end. It's great to watch and the aromas are incredible.
3
Or in Seattle, where the McGill crew have brought their brains and their bagels. Go Eltana!
I remember traditional bagels, they were a jaw exerciser that was incredible when traditional cream cheese and smoked Nova Scotia salmon were added. They were used for baby teething rings when stale. Machine bagels and chemical cream cheese are pathetic substitutes when you know what the originals really tasted like.
9
So the bagel, which was nothing more than fat carbs, inventor. Thanks for the fat!
1
My daughters, who both went to Washington University in St. Louis, would bemoan the fact that all they could find were "rolls with holes".
5
I call those imitations "Roles with Holes." I call the ones with blueberries and other sweet treats "Donuts."
Give me an old-fashioned, hand-rolled, boiled in water Bagel any day. (Seriously, bring me some as I no longer live in the NY/NJ/CT Tri-State Metropolitan area.)
Give me an old-fashioned, hand-rolled, boiled in water Bagel any day. (Seriously, bring me some as I no longer live in the NY/NJ/CT Tri-State Metropolitan area.)
13
bagels have become donuts, like muffins have become cupcakes, only more so
3
Colorado, New Mexico and the rest--eat your heart out. We have a bagel joint in Madrid, corner of Alonso Martínez and Génova. There they are in the store window, displayed on poles, plain,poppy seeds, onion, everything, whatever you want. For the record, they stink!
1
When you're back here, Bagel Oasis and Eltana do their bagel styles true to form. You will be pleased.
...and not one Angeleno rises to the defense of Western Bagels?! We gentile barbarians out here on the Other Coast LOVE our Los Angeles-bred Western Bagels. Even my Brooklyn-born father-in-law pronounced them "genuine"!
5
There remained in the 80's and 90's a bagel bakery in Brooklyn that made the best I've ever had. I was fond of the "Everything" bagel (salt, onion, poppy seed, etc) that one of the secretaries at Merrill Lynch used to haul in for a pre-shabbos nosh on Fridays. Maybe not union, but you could tell they were hand made.
Speaking of ubiquity, they have Bagelman stores down here in San Jose. Terrible bagels, but it's the thought that counts!
Speaking of ubiquity, they have Bagelman stores down here in San Jose. Terrible bagels, but it's the thought that counts!
1
What a fascinating man. There is a company called Just Bagels which I believe is based in the Bronx that sells packaged, frozen bagels that are quite good for what they are, much better than the blander Lenders. Freshdirect carries them.
http://www.justbagels.com/home/justbagels/
http://www.justbagels.com/home/justbagels/
2
Anyone else out there find the blueberry bagel not just a shande, but an actual sacrilege?
19
Bagels should be plain, onion, garlic, seeded, everything bagel. All others are just bread
6
About as odd as being served a bagel and lox with sprouts.
2
I agree. Add flavored cream cheese to that, as well.
3
I grew up in Brooklyn and Queens and used walk up to the corner to get great bagels from the Key Food on Jamaica Ave every Sunday, but in the late 60s we moved to Montpelier, Vermont. No bagels, well, Lender's if you could call them that, until the Burlington Bagel Bakery opened up. I think it was the beginning of the cultural transformation of Burlington. Expat New Yorkers started moving there in droves. And, the rest is history...
3
"...something that is large and pillowy and flavorless...."
Truth in packaging demands that such products be labeled as "Imitation Bagels".
Truth in packaging demands that such products be labeled as "Imitation Bagels".
13
They should be called "bagel product" or "bagel food".
3
Bagels are junk food. His legacy is increased obesity and diabetes.
1
The product of this invention may be acceptable in flyover America where there is little Jewish culture, but it is merely a wad of dough with a hole in the middle. As the writer admits, it is not an authentic bagel. For that you have to produce and bake them the traditional way, including boiling them before baking. One can argue whether New York or Montreal style bagels are better, but both represent the real thing.
12
The current bagel may be less pure than in the past. But you can find them anywhere. There's a bagel shop in Mumbai, India with the same machine producing the same fine bagels. Is that so bad?
1
Decades ago, my father would stop at a bagel bakery on Jerome Avenue in Bronx to pick up dozens of bagels to bring back to the Catskills. The bakery was in the basement and there were many large wooden bins of different types of bagels. Does anyone recall this bakery?
I used to stop at Ess a Bagel on First Avenue, but the best bagels were at a little place under the el at Avenue P and McDonald, their bagels were about five inches in diameter.
I used to stop at Ess a Bagel on First Avenue, but the best bagels were at a little place under the el at Avenue P and McDonald, their bagels were about five inches in diameter.
1
My mom remembers that basement on Jerome avenue as well. Although she was young and a little nervous each time, she would often go into that basement on Sat. night for fresh bagels for Sunday morning. Her mom ( a single mom) had to be in their candy store on Tremont Ave- across from the Jerome movie theater. They lived around the corner- on Davidson Ave.
1
My father often took our family to that basement bakery in the '50's to buy bagels on Saturday night (we lived on Davidson Avenue). My strongest memory of the place is of sweating men (some of them bare chested!) cutting long strips from blocks of dough, hand-rolling them into bagels, and tossing them into large vats of boiling water. When they finally came out of the baking ovens, they were put into large brown paper bags. Even after you left with your order, the bagels were too hot to eat for several minutes. Wonderful bagels!
2
Okay, I know it's an obit, and condolences to the Thompson family, but..
An article about bagels without once using the word "shmear"? Now that's a shande.
An article about bagels without once using the word "shmear"? Now that's a shande.
7
New York has bagels
far better than all others
due to the water
far better than all others
due to the water
4
it has nothing to due with the water. please read an earlier comment from an old time bagel maker. It's about the preparation , not the water.
Fascinating. Condolences to his family and friends. Previously unknown to myself until now, this fellow influenced my life: I have spent considerable (countless would be more like it) hours in my life involved with both table tennis -- on a folding table -- and machine-made bagels. And the bit about being renamed in memory of another... deep.
3
I've been trying to explain the bagel thing to Utahns for years now. They don't understand. Baked goods are highly valued here but even fresh bagels are more like a flavored bun. There is most definitely a cultural disconnect.
Fortunately for me, a New Jersey couple just opened a traditional bagel shop in town. Maybe they wouldn't stand up to Local 338 standards but it suites me fine. I was seriously weighing DIY versus air shipping.
Fortunately for me, a New Jersey couple just opened a traditional bagel shop in town. Maybe they wouldn't stand up to Local 338 standards but it suites me fine. I was seriously weighing DIY versus air shipping.
4
Easily the most interesting story of the day.
9
"The bagel-maker's craft was passed down from father to son, fiercely guarded from outsiders' prying eyes."
This is what really led to the demise of proper bagels, not bagel-making machines. The essential three pillars required for their creation -- recipe, instructions, experienced skill -- were simply lost.
We are a species whose principal organizing characteristic, civilization, is carried only temporarily in the doomed storage medium of the human brain. We can only transmit civilization successfully to posterity by way of wide and generous teaching or through published and preserved writings.
Knowledge that is closely hoarded, on the other hand -- and transmitted only by the staticky signal of stingy nepotism -- is always imperiled whenever the next generation is uninterested, untalented, unintelligent or never even born.
It is incumbent on all human beings to teach whatever we know. Civilization can only advance if we transmit and record our knowledge, not if we take it mutely to our graves.
As an object lesson, I merely note that it is the loss to civilization of proper bagels that we mourn, and not the loss of those secretive bagel-makers.
This is what really led to the demise of proper bagels, not bagel-making machines. The essential three pillars required for their creation -- recipe, instructions, experienced skill -- were simply lost.
We are a species whose principal organizing characteristic, civilization, is carried only temporarily in the doomed storage medium of the human brain. We can only transmit civilization successfully to posterity by way of wide and generous teaching or through published and preserved writings.
Knowledge that is closely hoarded, on the other hand -- and transmitted only by the staticky signal of stingy nepotism -- is always imperiled whenever the next generation is uninterested, untalented, unintelligent or never even born.
It is incumbent on all human beings to teach whatever we know. Civilization can only advance if we transmit and record our knowledge, not if we take it mutely to our graves.
As an object lesson, I merely note that it is the loss to civilization of proper bagels that we mourn, and not the loss of those secretive bagel-makers.
27
There was a place near Penn Station in NY years ago that had one of Mr. Thompson's machines right behind the counter. As you waited for yours with a schmear, you could watch the bagels on their slats rise out of their steaming water bath, rotate backwards and dip back in again. It was like following a steamboat whose paddlewheel was loaded with deliciousness. Those bagels were tough and chewy, even if evidently not "the real deal." Thank you for bringing back that memory! My condolences to the Thompson family.
9
when I was a boy, about 75 years ago, my uncle had a small dairy store in the Bronx on Vyse Avenue where he sold butter carved out of a wood tub, eggs and bagels....REAL bagels.. half the size of today's characterless overblown imitations, but with a rich flavor wrapped in a hard brown crust...with fresh butter or cream cheese and sometimes lox...marvelous....
Memories, memories....
Memories, memories....
16
As several readers have already commented, this is a very fine obituary by a writer known for writing very fine obituaries.
But for an even better one -- which I make a habit of re-reading every year when Yom Kippur approaches because of its honest and, to me, profoundly meaningful take on life-- go to the link below and read "The End of A Happy Life," H.L. Mencken's obituary of his very good friend, Albert Hildebrandt, a Baltimore violin maker. You will need to scroll down a bit. In a lifetime of reading obituaries, I have found none better.
https://books.google.com/books?id=9r8KqQDNZD0C&pg=PA448&lpg=PA44...
But for an even better one -- which I make a habit of re-reading every year when Yom Kippur approaches because of its honest and, to me, profoundly meaningful take on life-- go to the link below and read "The End of A Happy Life," H.L. Mencken's obituary of his very good friend, Albert Hildebrandt, a Baltimore violin maker. You will need to scroll down a bit. In a lifetime of reading obituaries, I have found none better.
https://books.google.com/books?id=9r8KqQDNZD0C&pg=PA448&lpg=PA44...
3
Unfortunately, the link here is missing one page of the obituary. The complete obituary is contained in "A Second Mencken Chrestomacy," edited by Terry Teachout. Your library will have a copy.
1
Just want to add that even Catholics like myself who grew up in the NYC area ate bagel (a treat on weekends). I miss the smaller old fashioned bagels and laments both the current size (too large) and the wild proliferation of varieties.
9
The bagels I remember from the late 50s and early 50's were plain, more flat than today's puffy product (even when boiled), had a hard outer shell, more dense, and very chewy. Have not found any like those for many years. Can they be found anywhere today?
3
Robert,
Yes. Try the "mini bagel" at Absolute Bagel 2788 Broadway. The owner learned the craft the old way. The mini represents the older, pre-Thompson machine, size.
Yes. Try the "mini bagel" at Absolute Bagel 2788 Broadway. The owner learned the craft the old way. The mini represents the older, pre-Thompson machine, size.
Look for locations of Brooklyn Water Bagels along the eastern seaboard, plus one in Los Angeles. They boil and bake the heavenly rings on the spot, and some stores even make bialys. (Good luck with that, though.)
We buy then freeze bagels from BWB, and get Ray's New York bialys from Publix' freezer. It is sufficient.
http://brooklynwaterbagels.com/
We buy then freeze bagels from BWB, and get Ray's New York bialys from Publix' freezer. It is sufficient.
http://brooklynwaterbagels.com/
1
To prove that further degradation of the bagel is possible, Wegman's doesn't even boil the product they call a bagel.
5
Oy vey! Such kvetching over a sacred piece of boiled and baked dough!
Many years ago I did some business in the Midwest and each time I would travel there I’d pick up a couple of dozen fresh hot bagels from H and H on my way to the airport. When I would arrive in the environs of America's Breadbasket, it was as if John D. Rockefeller was passing out dimes to kids by bringing to the uninitiated something we New Yorkers would take for granted. These poor souls only knew from a frozen Lender’s and the arrival of real bagels not only made their day, but mine as well in creating a wonderful business relationship.
Mr. Thompson’s invention had an unintended (and most fortunate) consequence for some of us, so thanks!
Many years ago I did some business in the Midwest and each time I would travel there I’d pick up a couple of dozen fresh hot bagels from H and H on my way to the airport. When I would arrive in the environs of America's Breadbasket, it was as if John D. Rockefeller was passing out dimes to kids by bringing to the uninitiated something we New Yorkers would take for granted. These poor souls only knew from a frozen Lender’s and the arrival of real bagels not only made their day, but mine as well in creating a wonderful business relationship.
Mr. Thompson’s invention had an unintended (and most fortunate) consequence for some of us, so thanks!
10
Great story and history. Mr. Thompson's memory is definitely a blessing. Thank you.
4
What a great obit, with background info, links and all. Thank you M. Fox.
8
lender's bagels lack the taste and texture of the traditional bagel
10
Years ago I picked just the right moment to stop for a coffee break at the Side Saddle Cafe in Dripping Springs, TX. While I was there, a stunning redhead waited on an old-timer in jeans and battered hat, and encouraged him to try something new they had, called a bagel. "It's from New York, Dusty, kind of like a donut. I can split it and toast it for you, and you put butter or cream cheese on it. There's ones with poppy seeds or onion or sesame seeds" I can't remember Dusty's choice, but most likely it had come from a far-away Thompson machine, and he seemed to enjoy it just fine.
8
Oh, and everyone in the know, knows that the best bagels (and pizza for that matter!) were historically made in eastern Bensonhurst, and yes, The Old Borough Park! Why, well besides the water which all of New York had, all those landsmenettes and cujinettes would have it no other way. Stern folks who you wouldn't want to disappoint or mess with!!!
1
The things in the supermarket may look like bagels and even be called bagels, but they aren't really bagels. They are bagel shaped bread.
21
The bagel machine was the work of the Devil.
6
I recall in the 60s getting up at 4am on Sunday to make bagels.
What passes for a bagel today ( Dunkin' Donuts? Give me a break.) is worse than a shande. It is total fraud.
Like eggs with yellow yolks ( real eggs have orange yolks) these things lack any bit of authenticity.
And they taste like cardboard.
Let's start with ingredients. The water used, the way the dough is prepared and many other things are essential for a true bagel. I know a local bagel maker here in Maryland, where there are lots of people who still recall what a real bagel tastes like, who imports his dough from New Jersey. He told me that he cannot replicate the exact dough here with local water. The boiling in water, way they are baked, size, quality of toppings, among other things, all converge to make a bagel that is worthy of its name. The real deal.
Oy, my kingdom for a true bagel!
What passes for a bagel today ( Dunkin' Donuts? Give me a break.) is worse than a shande. It is total fraud.
Like eggs with yellow yolks ( real eggs have orange yolks) these things lack any bit of authenticity.
And they taste like cardboard.
Let's start with ingredients. The water used, the way the dough is prepared and many other things are essential for a true bagel. I know a local bagel maker here in Maryland, where there are lots of people who still recall what a real bagel tastes like, who imports his dough from New Jersey. He told me that he cannot replicate the exact dough here with local water. The boiling in water, way they are baked, size, quality of toppings, among other things, all converge to make a bagel that is worthy of its name. The real deal.
Oy, my kingdom for a true bagel!
25
The last paragraph is unclear: was Mr. Thompson indirectly responsible for the abomination against man and nature that is the Dunkin' Donuts "bagel"? Of all the not-so-bagel-y "bagels" I've had the misfortune of trying, those are perhaps the worst – their continued existence is just as enigmatic as the phrase "bake place" that appears on the secondary signage of some locations...
4
So interesting and so well written. I love this paragraph:
What was more, Mr. Thompson’s machine proved to be a mirror of midcentury American history. For bound up in the story of its introduction is the story of Jewish assimilation, gastronomic homogenization, the decline of trade unionism, the rise of franchise retailing and the perennial tension between tradition and innovation.
What was more, Mr. Thompson’s machine proved to be a mirror of midcentury American history. For bound up in the story of its introduction is the story of Jewish assimilation, gastronomic homogenization, the decline of trade unionism, the rise of franchise retailing and the perennial tension between tradition and innovation.
25
This bagel making machine is anti-semitic. Rolls will be heading.
9
It always saddens me (as a former New Yorker, where a good bagel has long been exceedingly rare) to stand on line in Iowa at a thing called "Bruegger's Bagel Bakery" staring at the bins of pumpkin bagels and blueberry bagels and "jala-peeno" bagels etc…But that is the course of time, in which culture becomes commodity. One ought, I suppose, not to get too nostalgic about "authentic" bagels, which were the flavor of authentic ghettoization in an Old World, but I wonder whether life without blandly assimilated bagels would be preferable to the neutral doughy consumable present-day product.
I read this obituary with interest as I am a New Yorker visiting Copenhagen and couldn't resist a bagel for breakfast yesterday. I was very pleasantly surprised as it was nice and crispy on the outside and not too doughy on the inside. Whatever Mr. Thompson's contributions were to the bagel, may he rest in peace.
KDSpiegel
KDSpiegel
Ah, bagel-making in the American heartland! I remember walking into a shop in Grand Forks, ND, about 25 years ago where they offered bagels in all-American red, white and blue: maraschino cherry, plain, and blueberry. I have not yet recovered from the sight.
1
I remember a place called the Bagel Box on Eagle Rock Ave in the Pleasantdale section of West Orange back in the early 70's. Was a morning staple. When I went in the service I recall that most of the other Marines didn't even know what a bagel was which was a surpirise to me. Still waiting for someone to direct me to a good bagel here in S California. Always figured it had something to do with the water problaby the same reason you can't find a good slice out here either.
1
My friends and I worked our way through college in the early mid-70's bomaking bagels at the Bagel Factory in Ann Arbor Michigan. From 4 in the morning when Kurt got the shop ready to start baking to midnight, when Michael cleaned up, the people with whom I shared a house in college were factory workers making bagels. Some of us were students, some of us not so much, but we made bagels old school, with high gluten flour that was shaped, cut and rounded by a machine that we all called a Habomfa, (but that might just have been descriptive of the noise it made.) My most vivid sense recollections of working there are the way my arms would get covered with corn meal (which we put on the baking paddles so the bagels slid more easily into the ovens) and sweat, which would eventually get baked to a crust on our arms during the course of a morning. It was tough dirty work, and we loved it, bringing new york culture (we were all new yorkers) to the midwest. And the stale bagels were a staple in our house. Every time I go into a bagel store, I try to see if they have vats to boil the bagels in the back room. If I don't see em, I assume the bagels are not made in the shop.
1
Reply to DaMoopies USA 6 hours ago who said, "I spent 9 years making bagels with a pair of Thompson machines. They were indeed sturdy enough to handle a traditional gluten-heavy dough that when boiled and baked resulted is the classic hard crust bagel."
Thank you DaMoopies. I have never baked a bagel in my life. I was lucky. As a child in Flushing in the 1940s I remember how wonderful the bagels were that our next door neighbor made. I would get to share them with his daughter, Caroline.
It wasn't until years later that I tasted bagels that were the equal of those in Flushing. My brothers went to high school with Craig, and we met his brother Steve Thompson. They became bonus brothers. Every so often, Steve or Craig would treat us to a box of bagels from Mr. Thompson's machine. They made my mouth water. They were just the right taste of hard, fulsome and crusty.
For our family, more important than his bagel machine and his ping pong table was the other gift he gave us. Mr. Thompson - thank you for sharing Craig and Steve. God bless you!
Thank you DaMoopies. I have never baked a bagel in my life. I was lucky. As a child in Flushing in the 1940s I remember how wonderful the bagels were that our next door neighbor made. I would get to share them with his daughter, Caroline.
It wasn't until years later that I tasted bagels that were the equal of those in Flushing. My brothers went to high school with Craig, and we met his brother Steve Thompson. They became bonus brothers. Every so often, Steve or Craig would treat us to a box of bagels from Mr. Thompson's machine. They made my mouth water. They were just the right taste of hard, fulsome and crusty.
For our family, more important than his bagel machine and his ping pong table was the other gift he gave us. Mr. Thompson - thank you for sharing Craig and Steve. God bless you!
1
My father, a mechanical engineer, was asked to design a bagel machine in the early 1950's. He tinkered with it for a couple years and finally sold his design to a spaghetti manufacturer. His theory was that the sweat from the workers' hands was needed to make a great bagel.
1
It's not just the fine obituary that is notable here. The comments that are appearing in this section today are also unusually generous and kind. Day after day, the Times comment section is frequently filled with a great deal of anti-Jewish, anti-Israel invective. But today seems different. Maybe now we could even get a nice editorial on the bagel from the Times. Thank you for your good productive life, Mr. Thompson.
6
A wise old rabbi laying dying in a shtetl in Poland. The villagers pushed the blacksmith into the rabbi's room who removed this cap, nervously twisted it, and said: "Rebbe, excuse me, I'm sorry, but the people want to know. They want to know: what is the meaning of life?" The great rabbi opened one eye and said: "Life? Life is like a bagel." Word spread quickly among the people crowding around the rabbi's humble home: "Of course! How could not see it? Life is like a bagel." But these were Jews, and with Jews there is always one. "Hmmph," said this one. "Why is life like a bagel?" So the people pushed the reluctant blacksmith back into the rabbi's room. Again twisting off his cap, and apologizing at the intrusion, the blacksmith said: "Rebbe, forgive me. But the people. The people want to know: "Why is life like a bagel?" At this, the great rabbi opened both eyes, sighed deeply, and intoned in a magisterial voice: "O.K. So it's not like a bagel."
16
Wonderful story about the history of the bagel. As a gentile and former New Englander now living in Houston, TX it makes me want to experience a New York Jewish bagel - no offense to Mr. Thompson's invention. Though obviously not as tasty as the original, we can thank Daniel Thompsonn for introducing the bagel to a whole nation and I pay homage to him.
2
Guarding the bagel as a Jewish tradition for Jews is just one more sign of the sense of exclusivity of the Jewish people: as the chosen ones.
No civil society can prevail as long as religions and races claim exceptionalism by birth, and which cannot be diluted by allowing outsiders in.
Thus, the purist's bagels are not a product of culinary excellence; just ethnocentrism.
No civil society can prevail as long as religions and races claim exceptionalism by birth, and which cannot be diluted by allowing outsiders in.
Thus, the purist's bagels are not a product of culinary excellence; just ethnocentrism.
3
So this sort of tragedy happened in 1968 too?! Some of us graduated high school, America lost a couple of noble leaders to assassins, there were riots, the ramifications of Tet, The Black Hats with the help of the media began to hijack Judaism, and wouldn't you know it, the bagel started to become ubiquitous! Ironically, those last two events materialized in a neighborhood, that gave America an unusually large number of its' early bagels and comedians! And a landsman by the name of Thompson was behind the homogenization of bagels! Go figure?! (Great obit. by the way!)
4
Oh, purists! You are no doubt right. But I remember waiting outside the H&H Bakery for a bag of bagels, hot and tasty, when I moved to NYC and didn't know what kreplach even meant. You all grew up with them; I encountered them late.
It's true, Lender's are sorry cousins. "The Bagel" in Denver does a nice job. But this is splitting hairs. Bagels now carry pizza, as well as lox and cream cheese, and we all love them. Thank you, for sharing!
It's true, Lender's are sorry cousins. "The Bagel" in Denver does a nice job. But this is splitting hairs. Bagels now carry pizza, as well as lox and cream cheese, and we all love them. Thank you, for sharing!
3
As a westerner who never went east of Texas until I was 23, I remember the arrival of bagel making in Boulder in the 1970s. I'd watch the bagels boil in large, long shallow baths at the Boulder Bagel Bakery, and became a convert. A few years later, I ate them in New York when I traveled there to meet my fiancé's family. When I eventually moved to my teaching post in Illinois, a visiting professor from New York would grace me with a bag brought back from New York whenever she'd visit family there. My breakfast continues to be a bagel, some forty years later.
1
What a great obituary, thank you. Sigfried Giedion wrote a book (one that includes, as I recall, a section on how automated baking revolutionized the baking of the baguette) with a title that speaks directly to Daniel Thompson's "contribution" to the bagel: "Mechanization Takes Command."
I think Lender's frozen bagels are pretty good, not least because their size is not "overwhelming." The best bagel, alas, are in Montreal, where many are still hand made. As you cross the Hudson bagel quality falls quickly until it really is just donut shaped "wonderbread."
1
I grew up in Westchester and looked forward to Sunday mornings when my father would take my sisters and I to Koven's Deli to eat bagels with cream cheese and lox. There were only two kinds, plain & onion. I remember being a purist; I would only eat plain bagels. Then, one Sunday, I tried an onion bagel. I've been an onion-man ever since. When the new mass-produced, squishy bagels began to appear everywhere, I turned up my nose in disgust. And it's still turned up more than 50 years later.
6
The New Yorkers are scratching their heads thinking, hmm I never had a bagel that came out Daniel Thompson's machine.
- I lived very close to Tal Bagels on UES.
- I lived very close to Tal Bagels on UES.
2
Thanks for the history on bagel-making. I like how the NYTimes actually defined a bagel in 1960 as an "unsweetened donut with rigor mortis".
It was fascinating to learn that as recently as the 1960's, all bagels were made by members of the "Beigel" Bakers Union. And I loved that headline "Bagel Famine Threatens City".
I remember that old advertisement: "You don't have to be Jewish to love Levy's". Weren't Levy's the bagged and frozen kind? I guess that's when they were using these Thompson machines and promoting the product for expansion of the market...
It was fascinating to learn that as recently as the 1960's, all bagels were made by members of the "Beigel" Bakers Union. And I loved that headline "Bagel Famine Threatens City".
I remember that old advertisement: "You don't have to be Jewish to love Levy's". Weren't Levy's the bagged and frozen kind? I guess that's when they were using these Thompson machines and promoting the product for expansion of the market...
8
Levy's was Jewish Rye bread. Not too bad. But not like Pechter's.
Levy's was rye bread, not bagels at all. "Levy's real Jewish rye"
I thought levy's made rye. is it possible you're thinking of lender's - founded by murray lender? i think he died within the past year or two.
When I was a kid in the 1950s, we would visit my Aunt's family who lived in a Williamsburg, Brooklyn public housing project. On the way home, we would stop at Republic Bagel bakery just off of Grand Avenue. It seemed to be open at any hour. The bagels there were small and fresh. But they would become quite hard after a few hours. I loved the fresh bagels, which seemed to only exist in two varieties, plain, and with rock salt on the outer coating.
Today, here in Vermont, I had a sandwich, with a Thomas "bagel", bought in a plastic bag. It was larger, very soft, and pre-split. It seemed to remain soft somehow, even though they were bought a week ago. It tasted a little like a bagel, but, other than the fact that it was round with a hole in the middle, any resemblance to a Republic Bagel bagel was minimal, at best.
I am going to have to order some from the Montreal bakery everyone talks about. The so called bagels available to me are a corruption of the original.
Today, here in Vermont, I had a sandwich, with a Thomas "bagel", bought in a plastic bag. It was larger, very soft, and pre-split. It seemed to remain soft somehow, even though they were bought a week ago. It tasted a little like a bagel, but, other than the fact that it was round with a hole in the middle, any resemblance to a Republic Bagel bagel was minimal, at best.
I am going to have to order some from the Montreal bakery everyone talks about. The so called bagels available to me are a corruption of the original.
8
As far as I am concerned, his contributions are an abomination. There is nothing like the hand made bagels done in the style of St Viateur or Fairmont Bagel in Montreal. Love goes into the making of those gems. A bite of those bagels are memorable and makes life a sweet pleasure.
4
Oy, the man just died. How about a little respect here. Easy enough to speak positively of the bagels you love without the vitriol. We all miss hand-made bagels.
Eltana's in Seattle (three locations) makes Montreal-style bagels. One of the owners is a McGill expat.
No bagel machines for those bagels.
No bagel machines for those bagels.
This obituary belongs among the best ever appearing in the Times.
It was a revelation about a food that I always took for granted.
As I read it, a whole new world opened up. I kept thinking:
"So... who knew"?"
It was a revelation about a food that I always took for granted.
As I read it, a whole new world opened up. I kept thinking:
"So... who knew"?"
13
I'm over 60, and I can remember the days when middle-America did not know what a bagel was.
We were gentiles, but my father had done a medical residency in the New York City area. Hence, we had bagels in the house often. One time my mother offered a goy kid a bagel. He replied, "What's a bagel?"
Mass-produced bagels changed the perception, for better or worse.
We were gentiles, but my father had done a medical residency in the New York City area. Hence, we had bagels in the house often. One time my mother offered a goy kid a bagel. He replied, "What's a bagel?"
Mass-produced bagels changed the perception, for better or worse.
6
i remember back in the 1970's the "Temp Tee Cream Cheese"- T.V. commercial where the actor(Dan Resin or to his fans- Dr. Beeper from "Caddyshack"), asks the waiter, "What's a Bagel"? Yep, clueless back in those days.
Well gosh - I know what a Bagel is. And couldn't care less. Great story and History, but Bagels - No Thanks. Cardboard at Best
Will someone please build a monument to this man!
2
Oy. Here we go. All due respect to Mr. Thompson but machine made bagels cannot compare with the handmade,proofed, boiled and baked original. It takes three days to make a decent batch of bagels...extending the starter, making the dough and rolling the bagels 16 hours later...proofing overnight and then boiling and baking the next day. The bagel machine mass produces an inferior product...no one would argue with that and no one does. But try and make a living making bagels by hand...c'est impossible!.
5
Thanks Harley, You are the only person so far who has stated how bagels are made- authentically. For the last 25 years or so I"ve told friends in Seattle and here in Oregon that it's NOT the water that is the problem with West coast bagels(they all blame the water), it's how its made. I've been making bagels by hand at home for years, indeed the problem i found is that the locals don't allow enough time for the dough to rise, for the yeast to do it's thing. I'm glad someone has finally come out and told the real deal about bagels- and not about those round pieces of thick dough with a hole in the middle that people think is a bagel. Boy, have i had some awful locally made bagels.
The man lived a good and long life and rest his soul BUT LENDERS BAGELS are NOT bagels, thank you very much (and EVERY New Yorker knows this). Bagels are not hard to make well BUT the rules must be followed, one of which is that they must be hand rolled. Anyway, he was a clever man but his invention didn't do anything to improve our diet one bit.
8
It wasn't the bagel machine that killed bagels. Rather, it was the Jews turning over the franchise to others -- in the Bay Area frequently East Asians -- that turned the holy holy of holies into marketing nostalgia, whose existential definition was merely topological. As with pizza, destroyed by the Italians giving up the franchise to others, mostly Greeks, "bagels" now live in the oxymoronic world, where people actually push a "cranberry bagel" with a straight face, much as one now finds "broccoli pizza."
Thirty-five years ago when I ran into pre-packed bagels on the Navajo Res, I realized it was the beginning of the end.
As to Lenders: any resemblance to bagels living or dead is purely coincidental.
Commenters who note particular shops that sell real bagels exemplify the problem. Again, as with a slice of pizza, a bagel was something you could get at a store down the street. One did not have to search for it as a specialty item, let alone as a type of cuisine.
After much research and careful, analytic thought on the entire subject of bagels, machines, Jews, pizza, Italians, and progress, I can honestly say along with the Luddische Rebbe: FEH !
Thirty-five years ago when I ran into pre-packed bagels on the Navajo Res, I realized it was the beginning of the end.
As to Lenders: any resemblance to bagels living or dead is purely coincidental.
Commenters who note particular shops that sell real bagels exemplify the problem. Again, as with a slice of pizza, a bagel was something you could get at a store down the street. One did not have to search for it as a specialty item, let alone as a type of cuisine.
After much research and careful, analytic thought on the entire subject of bagels, machines, Jews, pizza, Italians, and progress, I can honestly say along with the Luddische Rebbe: FEH !
14
A test for authenticity: Is the bagel shop open on Passover?
I agree with the commenters that Lenders Bagels aren't the finest specimens of Jewish cuisine - but by mass producing a bagel of sorts, Daniel Thompson was able to introduce a new audience to an otherwise under-appreciated ethnic food.
Having been introduced to the "Wonder Bread"-form of the bagel, that same audience, now seeking a more flavorful variety, became the market for the better bagel from the local deli. And for this, Daniel Thompson deserves our appreciation. Toda!
Having been introduced to the "Wonder Bread"-form of the bagel, that same audience, now seeking a more flavorful variety, became the market for the better bagel from the local deli. And for this, Daniel Thompson deserves our appreciation. Toda!
7
When you think about it, this man's achievements are a great example of how different minds and different ethnicities contribute to our country and our happiness, in ways large and small. An inventor in California meets bread from the Jewish kitchen, and voila--tasty treats for all. Who knows what fine inventors will come, and what they will invent? Who knows what treats they will bring with them?
Food, technology, literature, science, arts, dance--there's a world of human accomplishment out there, that we can share.
Food, technology, literature, science, arts, dance--there's a world of human accomplishment out there, that we can share.
9
In truth, almost nothing we eat today is "real".
As for Daniel Thompson, he did what people in our times are expected to do, and he did it well.
As for Daniel Thompson, he did what people in our times are expected to do, and he did it well.
14
Although the Bagel was born in Europe, it may be the one American import that has not been translated into Italian. Cupcakes, muffins, and brownies provide sustenance to US students abroad and income to transplanted American entrepreneurs, but as a form of "pasta," it cannot compete with imports of "real" Americana or substitute for the local delicacies dipped in the morning espresso.
I remember passing the time while waiting for a bus late at night on Union Turnpike, in Bellerose, Queens, by watching the bagel-makers in the window as they would slice off a strip of dough about one inch wide and expertly join the ends with a rolling motion. The "seam" would be visible on the finished bagel.
Did you hear the one about the dilemma of the bagel baker who wanted to save money by reducing the amount of dough in each bagel -- if he made the holes bigger, it took more dough to go around the hole.
Did you hear the one about the dilemma of the bagel baker who wanted to save money by reducing the amount of dough in each bagel -- if he made the holes bigger, it took more dough to go around the hole.
5
Kudos to Mr. Thompson for inventing new technologies. I'm more of a fan of wheeled, folding Ping Pong tables than mass-produced bagels, but he made an excellent living and became an integral part of American commerce. RIP. And may a user of Thompson bagel machines restore the end product to its former glory.
8
Quite a story! Rest assured, there is life and culture west of the Hudson. We here on the prairie in Mankato and in Northfield, Minnesota have some of the best bagels anywhere. We run a fine small business, Tandem Bagels, that keeps our small but thriving downtowns well fed. Formed, boiled and baked fresh we serve about 1200 daily. We've been told by a New Yorker or two that ours doesn't compare... we said, "really, what's missing"? The response... "the bagels are great, but you Minnesotan's are way too friendly." We think that is pretty darn good.
69
You need add a dash of Jewish dourness and pessimism to make them perfect.
1
Bagels AND Ping-pong? The guy should have been bigger than Steve Jobs.
However it is hard to find a proper Bagel and a good one is a revelation. Recently found one on the east side of Broadway just above 103 street more or less. Worth the search!
However it is hard to find a proper Bagel and a good one is a revelation. Recently found one on the east side of Broadway just above 103 street more or less. Worth the search!
9
I'm still mourning the loss of H&H Bagels. I don't mean to sound callous, but the loss of the inventor of the bagel machine leaves me cold while the loss of H&H Bagels pulled at my heart strings.
Fortunately, Upper West Siders can still rely on Lenny's Bagels and Absolute Bagels.
Fortunately, Upper West Siders can still rely on Lenny's Bagels and Absolute Bagels.
6
I was always baffled at the popularity of H&H. In the mid 80's there existed a place called Lox, Stock & Bagel outdoors on the 7th Ave plaza at Penn Station, just south of the main entrance. They had it down to a perfect science. Like many of the best, they are long gone too.
A trip to NYC would not be complete without bringing home H&H Bagels to Hawaii.
I remember a bagel shop indoors on the main concourse, just beyond the stairs/escalator at the 7th Ave main entrance. I think that's literally directly under where you are describing. If it's the same guys, YES. They were my faves for years.
I remember a NYT's article from the 60s that said stale bagels were used as teething rings for infants.
6
Not stale bagels, but frozen ones are best for teething babies.
Interesting piece -- perfect for the many New Yorkers who move to Los Angeles, stay, and spend the rest of their lives talking about how much better New York was.
7
Not everything about New York was better. But the bagels certainly were. But not anymore for the most part. They are all children of a lesser bagel now.
1
If you want a good bagel, go to Diamond's Bakery on Fairfax Ave. They also make the best corn rye. It's a funny little hole in the wall bakery that hasn't changed since the 1960's with the same sweet old ladies working there.
The new franchise "Brooklyn Bagel" makes a terrific bagel and uses a machine. Look, it's all about the dough. It's not the machine. Dan Thompson provided the tool. It's up to the baker to put the right stuff into it.
So all in all, Mr. Thompson did pretty good.
So all in all, Mr. Thompson did pretty good.
38
..agree this is one of best obits in NYTImes
history ... it is also, in a way, an obituary for the bagel (as "we" know it.)
Ginni Stern
history ... it is also, in a way, an obituary for the bagel (as "we" know it.)
Ginni Stern
21
Thank you Ginni!! I needed that! LOL
The Bagel Mill, Peterborough, New Hampshire...great bagels!
3
Yes, I can still remember standing on tip-toes at the baker's counter, in my short pants and newsboy cap, waving a penny to get the world's finest handmade bagel, handed to me by a gruff man with a heart of gold. And a loaf of the finest bread from down the block was only a nickel. They just don't make 'em like they used to.
25
Mr Thompson really came through for humanity with his fold-up ping pong table, but maybe the less said about his bagel, the better. Condolences to the family.
24
Where can I get a bagel like the ones we bought late, late Saturday night (made after Shabbos) in Buffalo, N.Y.? When they disappeared my mother would scoop out some of the dough from the big ones.
Does anyone in the Boston area know if the bagel of my childhood exists here?
Can you imagine what those union meetings were like?
Does anyone in the Boston area know if the bagel of my childhood exists here?
Can you imagine what those union meetings were like?
7
If you are even in Burlington VT check out Feldman's Bagels on Pine St - the real deal
1
Check out the kosher bakery on Harvard Street in Brookline.
1
Please do not forget 'The Hip Bagel' in the Village during the 1960s. It was certainly a cool place to be in.
Thank you, Ms Fox, for a classic obit, one of the best in Times history.
30
I had my first bagel in north Dallas, Texas, in the late 1960s. It was a real bagel, with character. One doesn't normally think of Texas as having a "thriving Jewish community", but Dallas had enough then and now to support a real bagel bakery, no faking.
Most of what are sold commercially these days are not bagels. The word is out that you can skip putting the dough in boiling oil. I even had one of those non-bagels on a trip to NYC not long ago. I couldn't believe it and threw the remainder of the pretenders in the trash can. These are not bagels, but rounded lumps of gooey bread with some seeds thrown on. Help!
The whole world is becoming one of adulterated, imitation food things, nothing real, nothing authentic. On a visit to France a few years ago, I witnessed stores in the countryside selling pre-packaged croissants, six in a plastic bag, hanging from an easily accessible rack. In France, mind you. (A croissant has to have the flakey surface crustiness or it isn't worthy of the name.) There was even a huge discount store with an enclosed hallway in the front of it and in the hallway there was a pretend Paris street cafe sitting forlorn like a movie set, a memory assembled for the pleasure of those who have never known the real thing.
When stores are careful enough to make them properly, we can all have real bagels these days and I shall thank Mr. Thompson for not making me wait for my next trip north of here to New York.
Most of what are sold commercially these days are not bagels. The word is out that you can skip putting the dough in boiling oil. I even had one of those non-bagels on a trip to NYC not long ago. I couldn't believe it and threw the remainder of the pretenders in the trash can. These are not bagels, but rounded lumps of gooey bread with some seeds thrown on. Help!
The whole world is becoming one of adulterated, imitation food things, nothing real, nothing authentic. On a visit to France a few years ago, I witnessed stores in the countryside selling pre-packaged croissants, six in a plastic bag, hanging from an easily accessible rack. In France, mind you. (A croissant has to have the flakey surface crustiness or it isn't worthy of the name.) There was even a huge discount store with an enclosed hallway in the front of it and in the hallway there was a pretend Paris street cafe sitting forlorn like a movie set, a memory assembled for the pleasure of those who have never known the real thing.
When stores are careful enough to make them properly, we can all have real bagels these days and I shall thank Mr. Thompson for not making me wait for my next trip north of here to New York.
4
I bought my first bagel machine from Dan and his son Steve in April, 1980. It was the beginning of a long and wonderful relationship. It was a sturdy, reliable machine which made a wonderful product. I purchased the proto-type of his dough divider; and later the first two bank vertical machine. They were amazing pieces of equipment, and I could always rely on Dan, Ada, and Steve's help when we had problems. We used two two-bank vertical machines, including Thompson dough-dividers,16 hours a day, which allowed us to make a crusty, dense bagel and supply our 16 locations in Southern California. Dan was one-of-a-kind. He will be missed.
45
Given my profession (sub-specialized physician) I could live anywhere, but born and bred in NYC, expected to be able to at least sift through The Gray Lady by age 4 years, I guess I have remained close enough to NY so that when we moved to NJ 22 years ago to start our medical careers I scoped out the 6 different bagel bakers settling on one, whom I don't even like his politics (conservative) but he made the best. This coming from a guy whose father took him to Yonah Schimmel's Knish Bakery for the best kasha you could plotz for. Let's buy our bagels locally, have them overnighted where and heaven forbid, worry about automated frozen kinshes. Oh, as a physician, get the Scottish Lox. Less salt then belly.
9
I would not fault Mr. Thompson for his invention, he did do a service in the hinterlands. Getting a bagel was hoping that there was an established Jewish neighborhood in one's city. Houston, Chicago and Columbus, Ohio comes to mind.
A good bagel, like a good pizza, is very hard to find west of the Hudson, South of the Harlem River - Long Island Sound.
Yes, there are pockets that are few and far between. Here, in Lonmont, we have the Brooklyn Deli; ex-New Yorker ships everything in and makes really good bagels, by hand. Nice and crispy, and does great at considering he is doing it at altitude. Begel's like what I remember from the mid-1960s from Long Island. He also makes very good Knishes. And the Pastrami on Rye, is to die for. We have two pizza shops, also run by ex-New Yorkers. The kind where it slightly blacken on the bottom, thin crust, oozing with cheese, and pick it up it goes everywhere; like you found also on Long Island in the 1960s.
So, there is hope for the hinterlands.
A good bagel, like a good pizza, is very hard to find west of the Hudson, South of the Harlem River - Long Island Sound.
Yes, there are pockets that are few and far between. Here, in Lonmont, we have the Brooklyn Deli; ex-New Yorker ships everything in and makes really good bagels, by hand. Nice and crispy, and does great at considering he is doing it at altitude. Begel's like what I remember from the mid-1960s from Long Island. He also makes very good Knishes. And the Pastrami on Rye, is to die for. We have two pizza shops, also run by ex-New Yorkers. The kind where it slightly blacken on the bottom, thin crust, oozing with cheese, and pick it up it goes everywhere; like you found also on Long Island in the 1960s.
So, there is hope for the hinterlands.
28
A "crispy" bagel??
Last I checked the Italian-American stronghold of northern NJ was west of the Hudson and has pizza as good as if not better than New York's.
My condolences to Mr. Thompson's family. Yes, he brought the bagel to America's heartland, and now living in South Carolina, I'm happy he did no matter how inferior they are. But I will always yearn for the bagel of my youth with its "earthy taste, an elastic crumb and a glossy, dauntingly hard crust" preferable with a schmear and some white fish.
10
If somebody automatically asks for a (fresh) bagel to be toasted, it's a clear sign that they have grown up with Lenders.
26
That's probably true, but I like my bagels toasted nontheless.
1
This obit, in its eloquence, perfectly illustrates why the NYT should publish, in book form, a collection of the greatest obits for the new century. Margolit Fox and her colleagues consistently turn out masterpieces like this. Reading this obit propels those of us who remember the NY bagel of the 50s into our own, special Proustian world. Ah, to once again be able to sink my teeth into the dense beauty of that plain bagel that my parents dispatched me to get at Adrian's Bakery in Windsor Park, Queens . . . it would be ecstasy.
61
That is a great idea. The obit section is the main reason why I subscribe to the Times. I'm just sorry that in so doing means I'm helping to provide a paycheck for David Brooks. Pete McGuire, Atlanta
31
The best reads in the Times are turning out to be the Obits and the Reader Comments.
15
Do I remember Adrian's. Sure do! My parents had me walk there every Sunday morning, about a mile, no matter what the weather, to get fresh bengals--and seven-layer cake!
Probably ran into you there. Last time I was in the Windsor Oaks area, a few years back, Adrian's was still there.
Probably ran into you there. Last time I was in the Windsor Oaks area, a few years back, Adrian's was still there.
3
The real real bagels are still made in Israel, likr ytheyusrd to be make in Eastern Europe, and are still made in Poland (Ate some there)
6
Excellent bagels are available all over Eastern Europe, from Croatia to Russia. And it would not occur to anyone there to think of them as "Jewish" food.
This article, more perhaps than any other, describes the reasons for the inevitable decline of the Taxi medallion and subsequent rise of Uber.
Still, I miss those fifteen cent bagels I used to buy in Brooklyn as a kid.
Still, I miss those fifteen cent bagels I used to buy in Brooklyn as a kid.
7
Thompson's machines don't create bagels, they create bagel-oids. Similar in size and shape to real bagels, they are just a bit, can we say it(?), goyishe. But let's give the man credit for the revolutionary invention and mourn his passing.
I bake my own. It isn't so difficult, but it takes some practice to get something decent. While they are not quite up to the standards of the union-rolled variety I grew up with in the NYC suburbs of the 1960s, they are still way better than the mass-produced jet-puffed squeezies peddled in every supermarket across the land.
I bake my own. It isn't so difficult, but it takes some practice to get something decent. While they are not quite up to the standards of the union-rolled variety I grew up with in the NYC suburbs of the 1960s, they are still way better than the mass-produced jet-puffed squeezies peddled in every supermarket across the land.
14
The best. Oasis Bagel on the service road of the LIE in Fresh Meadows in the 50's and 60's. How do I know? Triple parking to run in and grab them. The cops did nothing to prevent blockage of the service road to one narrow lane. Lender's? Maybe I had one once and spit it out.
7
Thanks for the memory of Oasis Bagel. Saturday nights were packed with people picking up breakfast so they could sleep late on Sunday. I concur on the awfulness of Lender's. But the new franchise "Brooklyn Bagel" makes a terrific bagel using a machine. It's not the machine, it's all about the dough. So all in all, Mr. Thompson did pretty good.
1
Yes but what happened to the bagel holes? Why did they disappear?
7
When??
They tie them together to make fish nets.
The Thompson machine "turned the bagel, which had once been smaller and crusty and flavorful, into something that is large and pillowy and flavorless — it had turned into the kind of baked good that Americans like, à la Wonder Bread.”
Thanks a lot, Mr. Thompson.
Thanks a lot, Mr. Thompson.
24
Mr. Thompson, may he rest in peace, was an American hero. He was a hero to Americans who love to eat. The bagel is a wonderfully delightful food. I like my bagels plain or with a little butter. Yes, he was a true American, if there was one.
6
From my home in New York I won't wander.
That's where bagels I buy (which I'm fond-a).
Those machine made ersatz-ers
Make New Yorkers plotz-ers.
As the Times said they're really a "shande"
That's where bagels I buy (which I'm fond-a).
Those machine made ersatz-ers
Make New Yorkers plotz-ers.
As the Times said they're really a "shande"
11
Beautiful poem. Almost as enjoyable as the obit...
A tragic story, indeed, told with her usual élan by the inimitable Ms. Fox whose obits are of the traditional handmade variety from first word to last. Of course we ought not entirely attribute the demise of the bagel to misappropriation of Mr. Thompson's invention. After all you cannot find a good bialy any more either and nobody invented a bialy machine.
55
Oy, to have a good bialy -from your mouth to god's ears.
8
Finally!!!! Mention of the bagels lesser known cousin, the bialy. Buying a dozen bagels on Saturday night, any knowledgeable person would always have two or three bialys thrown into the bag. The onions in the middle (for those unaware, a bialy has no hole in it). God bless those folks from Bialistok Poland who "invented" the bialy. It's almost impossible to find something resembling a New York bagel here in Scottsdale AZ. I won't even attempt to seek out a bialy! But even our poor substitute bagels serve a purpose here. How else would we break the Yom Kippur fast on Wednesfay night?
1
You would be very surprised at the things people think are bagels, but are really 'fake bagels'. Large and soft ones from
'The Bagel Barn', that are as exciting as eating a slice of American bread.There are making bakery departments, within supermarkets, selling 'fake bagels'.
There should be a law against selling anything that has not been boiled and calling it a bagel.Why isn't there? There are laws about 'fake fish'. It's the same thing.
'The Bagel Barn', that are as exciting as eating a slice of American bread.There are making bakery departments, within supermarkets, selling 'fake bagels'.
There should be a law against selling anything that has not been boiled and calling it a bagel.Why isn't there? There are laws about 'fake fish'. It's the same thing.
20
Further, the public needs to be educated that the definition of a bagel is NOT a semi-soft roll with a hole in the center. Or, to put it another way, there's much more to a bagel than just the hole.
6
A machine to make bagels. What a service to mankind. Noble Peace Prize worthy. Hey. Some have been awarded the prize based on a lie or just being.
3
Over fifty years ago I was visiting a friend in Peter Cooper Village in New York City. I remember walking int a little store on 14th Street between 1st Avenue and Avenue A. The store was on the south side of the street. The wooden floor, the counter, and the man who ran the store were all covered in flour. He made change out of a cigar box. Behind him were steaming vats, and to the left and right were horizontal poles with bagels on them.
The man, the store, the real bagels, they're all gone. Even the bagels you can get that are still warm, taste like garbage.
The man, the store, the real bagels, they're all gone. Even the bagels you can get that are still warm, taste like garbage.
15
The word "bagels" and the descriptive "bagged and frozen" do not belong in the same sentence, paragraph, or article.
36
I love going to a simcha that's also attended by gentiles, as they marvel at the taste of real bagels. It can be difficult though to get them to try the lox or whitefish. Oy vey!
10
My wife is Jewish. Little did I know that our wedding would open up to me a wonderful universe of new foods! I really miss my mother-in-law's chopped liver.
6
The best bagels in lower Westchester are expertly made by gentiles who bought the shop 30 years ago from old jewish people and they boil and bake them right behind the cash register. Go to H&R Bialy in Quaker Ridge Shopping Center and they have plenty of lox and whitefish.
And they don't toast bagels. And they're usually warm or hot depending upon when you get there.
And they don't toast bagels. And they're usually warm or hot depending upon when you get there.
I grew up eating real bagels. If you can bite through a day-old crust without breaking a sweat, it's not a real bagel.
8
My mother would talk about her Gentile friends would buy bagels for their
babies who were beginning to teeth.
babies who were beginning to teeth.
4
Lenders does not make bagels, only round bread with no similarity to any self respecting bagel, nor anything that anyone who has eaten a real bagel would touch.
48
I have always called the relevant items produced by Lender's, Dunkin' Donuts, etc., "bagel-shaped objects."
14
Kvetch, already! I once, in desperation, bought a package of Lender's. Shande, indeed. Even though I grew up in San Francisco, I do remember eating real bagels--hard crust, chewy dough and all. Now that I am in my mid-70's and the victim of three broken teeth, I have to admit I appreciate the softer crusts. Some commercial bagels even have a pretty good, if not traditional, flavor. What has happened to the bagel is typical of what happens to most ethnic food when it becomes popular here. It is adjusted to the tastes of people who are used to easily consumable fast food.
13
I don't understand why other baked goods like French baguettes or challah or croissants are widely made nearly as good as the originals but the average bagel, whether frozen or fresh, has been rendered completely ersatz.
A real bagel starts with the right ingredients and is boiled, broiled and baked. Oh, what I would give to be able to get a dozen bagels from the now extinct Allerton Avenue bagelry on a Sunday morning.
A real bagel starts with the right ingredients and is boiled, broiled and baked. Oh, what I would give to be able to get a dozen bagels from the now extinct Allerton Avenue bagelry on a Sunday morning.
10
I don't agree about the croissants, and only partly about the baguettes. For a truly good croissant go to La Toulousaine on Amsterdam between 107th and 108th Sts., Manhattan. Theirs are better than any others I've had in the U.S. (and some in France). Their baguette is also excellent.
I'll sort of agree with you on baguettes, less on challah, but most certainly not on croissants. There are OK mass-produced baguettes, few commercial challahs (properly, the plural is challot) can equal homemade but nothing can come anywhere near a true, fresh, French boulangerie croissant. Impossible. And sadly, even most NYC bagels are not like the bagels of 40 or 50 years.
The bagel machine allowed the distribution of the bagel to the hinterlands. Of course these hinterlands had no concept of what a bagel really was.
It is actually an unfortunate fact that the bagel machine destroyed the essence of the bagel which requires a very stiff dough kneaded by hand, and perhaps some baker sweat. There are virtually no hand made bagels any more (except a few artisan places). Today they mostly are the doughy soft round things with a thin crust.
I am not so old that I can't remember the real thing. There was a wonderful bagel baker in Kingston, NY who ran Mr. Bagel, and made the real thing long after the New York City bagel gave up the ghost. Daniel Pinkwater actually did a piece on Mr Bagel on NPR some years ago; it was something of an obituary for the bagel.
It is actually an unfortunate fact that the bagel machine destroyed the essence of the bagel which requires a very stiff dough kneaded by hand, and perhaps some baker sweat. There are virtually no hand made bagels any more (except a few artisan places). Today they mostly are the doughy soft round things with a thin crust.
I am not so old that I can't remember the real thing. There was a wonderful bagel baker in Kingston, NY who ran Mr. Bagel, and made the real thing long after the New York City bagel gave up the ghost. Daniel Pinkwater actually did a piece on Mr Bagel on NPR some years ago; it was something of an obituary for the bagel.
7
I grew up with a Kossar's bakery across the street and remember pre-Daniel Thompson bagels well. I also enjoy having had Ess-A-Bagel and having David's Bagels in the neighborhood.
To Mr Thompson I say Thank You!
To Mr Thompson I say Thank You!
1
Great writing here.
20
In the words of my ancestors "This? This is not a bagel."
52
That is why the Thompson still have their knee caps.
Oy Vey...the world turns and the bagel dies. Progress?
7
I'm sure his machine is a fine piece of work, but Lender's bagels are not real bagels.
75
My husband's mother used to work for Lenders. When he and his brothers were kids, they joked "Anyone can sell a good product. It takes a real business-person to sell a mediocre product."
66
But the money they get for them is very real!
1
I spent 9 years making bagels with a pair of Thompson machines. They were indeed sturdy enough to handle a traditional gluten-heavy dough that when boiled and baked resulted is the classic hard crust bagel.
40
Good to hear that a claasic bagel can be produced with Mr. Thompson's invention.
homogenization of the delis where we lost "Jewish"
food. And Costco, they call them bagels there, but I have
yet to define what they really are.
Tasty obit.