We used these men and they know it. You know that awful feeling you get in the pit of your stomach and the scenarios that continue to play in your head when you've been conned? They believed they were fighting for a reason, risking their lives for a reason only to come home to find out that we were busy with our own trivial problems like traffic, paying bills, grocery shopping, or a rough day at work. Our leaders and theirs did not even have enough respect for what they were doing to properly keep them supplied with food or ammunition! And then we ask them to come back home to be a night manager at a Subway?! No wonder they're killing themselves, they were duped by their leaders and the American public. We did wrong by them and now we must fix this. We must make them feel worthwhile, give them a purpose in life that is as important as what we told them they were fighting & sacrificing for, to keep America safe. A menial job at a factory or chasing help at the VA is not representative of the respectful treatment they were expecting and until we fix this, they will continue to feel foolish for believing their service to their country was worthwhile and they will continue to kill themselves.
13
Lots of ineffective solutions have been found suggested here. I have been in combat and know a bit about it. Such intense and extreme experiences can never ever be described or expressed in words . Its not all about mind and psychology.
You go there filled with idealism and in a spirit of youthful adventure .You reach and find out that's its a more serious affair.You grow up fast , mature and do what needs to be done putting your life , future and everything else in harms way every second.You don't even think of life after . You just act , act and act , selflessly,giving it your all. Despite all that, you find your brave hearted comrades in arms die in your hands and get a lot disillusioned about it all. What you have undergone is inexplicable.And suddenly you reach home from it all .
People politely ask a few words about your war- experiences more to entertain themselves with "stories" than because of real concern.You roughly tell them about your transcendental experiences in words that they can grasp and you think understand.They listen with attention and then by the time you meet them next time, they have forgotten your words or experiences , showing little concern about it all and moved on with their own excitements in life .
So far,so fine.
Now,you find that the government and the people for whom you thought you were sacrificing your today's in the battle field,for their tomorrow have started
IGNORING you completely,as if you are dead and gone for them ( contd )
You go there filled with idealism and in a spirit of youthful adventure .You reach and find out that's its a more serious affair.You grow up fast , mature and do what needs to be done putting your life , future and everything else in harms way every second.You don't even think of life after . You just act , act and act , selflessly,giving it your all. Despite all that, you find your brave hearted comrades in arms die in your hands and get a lot disillusioned about it all. What you have undergone is inexplicable.And suddenly you reach home from it all .
People politely ask a few words about your war- experiences more to entertain themselves with "stories" than because of real concern.You roughly tell them about your transcendental experiences in words that they can grasp and you think understand.They listen with attention and then by the time you meet them next time, they have forgotten your words or experiences , showing little concern about it all and moved on with their own excitements in life .
So far,so fine.
Now,you find that the government and the people for whom you thought you were sacrificing your today's in the battle field,for their tomorrow have started
IGNORING you completely,as if you are dead and gone for them ( contd )
5
Continued .
You who fought bravely in the front find that you are defeated by the civil system.You are an honor able person who fought for the honor of your country and the country does not seem to bother about your own dignity or honor.They literally throw you to the greedy wolves of the market leaving you to fend for yourselves.Your wife and children find you unbearable to put up with because you are a financial burden on them now. You are not able to earn anything because you were not taking care of your own future while caring for the future of the country.
The government seem to be unconcerned about your finances and about how you are going to live decently when the market place's profit-greedy wolves are baying at your heels.
Looking after your health in hospices or gloomy veteran hospitals is no solution to one who have sacrificed not only ones limbs and health but life itself .
What's really needed is to design measures by the government, corporations,and the public to make the financial health of veterans safe. This can be done in a number of ways if the government shows some sense of social responsibility and not be guided by cost accountants,styling themselves as financial managers in corporations who knows the cost of everything but the value of nothing..Armed forces is not a revenue earning wing of the government nor is it to be taken as a revenue spending department. its a REVENUE PROTECTING department. No corporation can thrive without it .
( contd) .
You who fought bravely in the front find that you are defeated by the civil system.You are an honor able person who fought for the honor of your country and the country does not seem to bother about your own dignity or honor.They literally throw you to the greedy wolves of the market leaving you to fend for yourselves.Your wife and children find you unbearable to put up with because you are a financial burden on them now. You are not able to earn anything because you were not taking care of your own future while caring for the future of the country.
The government seem to be unconcerned about your finances and about how you are going to live decently when the market place's profit-greedy wolves are baying at your heels.
Looking after your health in hospices or gloomy veteran hospitals is no solution to one who have sacrificed not only ones limbs and health but life itself .
What's really needed is to design measures by the government, corporations,and the public to make the financial health of veterans safe. This can be done in a number of ways if the government shows some sense of social responsibility and not be guided by cost accountants,styling themselves as financial managers in corporations who knows the cost of everything but the value of nothing..Armed forces is not a revenue earning wing of the government nor is it to be taken as a revenue spending department. its a REVENUE PROTECTING department. No corporation can thrive without it .
( contd) .
6
This is a heartbreaking article and it is a national shame that we do not provide better services, especially better mental health treatment, for our veterans. It would be good for Donald Trump to read this article and recognize the sacrifice and service of the Hispanic soldiers in this unit who served their country. Things won't change until we have a mandatory draft in this country where ALL have to serve, even the privileged, and people like Trump aren't allowed to dodge service. Then I hope what will actually happen is that we will never go to war again. What wars in recent memory have achieved any good whatsoever? Our leaders have not served; how do we trust them not to send other people's sons and daughters into harm's way without more careful thought of the devastating consequences? Afghanistan, Iraq and Vietnam veterans understandably feel like their killings and their horrible sacrifices were never for a "good" cause.
9
As a veteran,I would like to say,that you go out as a strapping young man in your twenties full of spirit adventure and patriotism,along with so many other young men imbued with the same passion and spirit.You get engaged with combat.Within hours you grow old and mature.You become old,wiser.You lose your comrades in combat within days or weeks.Each one of them makes your life grow older and older.Your seconds is so enlarged as the billions of nano seconds it contains. You start measuring your life in billionth of seconds and not with seconds of time.
You come home.You are not sure whether it was lucky or unlucky.You look young physically but you are old old old and weary war-weary.To you,you are like a thousand years old .
But instead of getting the care and attention that are reserved for the old,you are expected to fight your way through in life.For the world, you have another forty years of active life.Used to thinking of the next twenty or thirty minutes at the most, you had long since stopped thinking of ten or twenty years ahead ,let alone another forty years!
You find yourselves thrown at the mercy of the merciless market sharks whom you were protecting with your life so long.The government,you find, is also at the mercy of these market-sharks called corporations greedily busy making money. Was it for this that his friends lost their young life ?Is life worth living with these sharks? More sensible to join up with friends of the battle field.
You come home.You are not sure whether it was lucky or unlucky.You look young physically but you are old old old and weary war-weary.To you,you are like a thousand years old .
But instead of getting the care and attention that are reserved for the old,you are expected to fight your way through in life.For the world, you have another forty years of active life.Used to thinking of the next twenty or thirty minutes at the most, you had long since stopped thinking of ten or twenty years ahead ,let alone another forty years!
You find yourselves thrown at the mercy of the merciless market sharks whom you were protecting with your life so long.The government,you find, is also at the mercy of these market-sharks called corporations greedily busy making money. Was it for this that his friends lost their young life ?Is life worth living with these sharks? More sensible to join up with friends of the battle field.
7
Let me come straight to the point. Can't the rich leader of the first world countries in the world , the UNITED States of America who fights everybody else's war for justice give an honorable generous pension to the returning veterans so that they can look after themselves, their family and children decently without then having to work anymore as they have done their life's job already and acquitted themselves honorably staking their own lives in the process ?
A pension linked to the rate of inflation that keeps them free from wants anymore ? War veterans need be honored and not hospitalized. They deserve to live decently and respectfully for the balance of their life not in penury , not in opulence , but just decently as a frugal middle class American family , in peace ?
The respected war veterans deserve the indulgence of the Corporations whom they protected along with the honor of the nation and of their Respected Commander -In- Chief , the POTUS himself.
A pension linked to the rate of inflation that keeps them free from wants anymore ? War veterans need be honored and not hospitalized. They deserve to live decently and respectfully for the balance of their life not in penury , not in opulence , but just decently as a frugal middle class American family , in peace ?
The respected war veterans deserve the indulgence of the Corporations whom they protected along with the honor of the nation and of their Respected Commander -In- Chief , the POTUS himself.
7
Absolutely heartbreaking. It seems though, that what makes these people such good soldiers is the same quality that makes adjusting to civilian life difficult -- they are all so young. In many cases it seems that the military is their first experience away from home. They haven't had time to understand themselves or their place in the world before they are trained up and brought into horrifying and challenging conditions. They see and do things that most of us never will or could never imagine. My heart goes out to the serviceman who is haunted by smoking the bloody cigarette. How is someone who's been through that, before he's had a chance to know the world in any other way, supposed to come home and adjust? There's time and money invested in pre-combat training, but none in re-civilian adjustment. Just as we wouldn't ask a 19 year old to fight a war without training, we shouldn't ask him or her to return home and "be normal" without any sort of acclimatization support. Blessings, all.
3
This is a heartbreaking. As a society, we say that soldiers are heros, righteous. We say they do good, God supports war, and that killing in war is glorious and admirable. While this refrain may on one level make soldiers feel supported, I imagine that when soldiers return and try to grapple with what they have seen and what they have done, some of it may seem false. Wouldn't it be better as a people to analyze and frame war in a more honest way? To go through the trauma of war, to feel ruined, soldiers need to be able to speak honestly and be treated honestly, and with respect. The story is so painful and heartbreaking. Truyly real and valuable support can only be give when the discussion is truthful.
4
The untapped costs of war... And not counted is the violence these wasted and fatigued and fragile young men bring on to their own families and friends and co-workers and to civilian life (to which it may be very difficult, indeed, to adapt after the physical and psychical wreckage of war). It is not just violence against themselves. There must be a lot of domestic violence when all these wives and girlfriends break up with these men too and pull them over the edge. The violence of war has a ripple effect. Violence breeds violence. And the soldiers are very very young men in their 20s to be handling all that stuff. Also, all this collateral effect of war should be part of all those video games that glamorize violence and violent manhood. It's brutal. Inexcusable to be sending them to all these unnecessary wars and then offering them subpar veteran medical services. And finally, imagine the wreckage on the other side as well, all the men and families killed and affected by all this violence. Barbaric.
3
In the military we are taught to keep moving forward, not complain, drink water drive on. We return to civilian life , we return to indifference, we return to platitudes, we return to lost opportunities. We seek help, we do not receive it and yet we need to drink water and drive on. More platitudes, more indifference, I just want the opportunities that I lost. We live with the decisions and the events on the battlefield that we left behind, the things that we can not explain and had no control over. They keep going through our heads over and over again. Drink water drive on.
8
Thank you for your service. I am so sorry that the VA and civilian systems can't seem to crack the code on what you need or how to help. I will light a candle for you. And keep you in my prayers, that you find peace on earth with family and friends. Blessings on you for drinking the water, driving on, and carrying the freight for those of us back home.
4
How does the writer know the final words and thoughts of some of these precious individuals? The information is painful enough without an iota of additional theatrics added.
Where is the leadership of this Marine Battalion which includes officers and staff non-commissioned officers...The heart wrenching saga of this unit is another indicator of politicization of the military where our soldiers, marines, airman and sailors are pawns in the application of of the Liberal Peace Theory cloaked in protracted military tactics dependent upon global acceptance and weakest all in the name of peace in lies of winning.
Yes you dam right we should win our never go! Our veterans are robbed of their dignity every dam day by politicians, bureaucrats and public whom 99.9 will never serve nor will their children.
While I will say a prayer for the Marines who have fallen in battle abroad and at home, I challenge all veterans young and old to reach to a fellow veteran today with strong hands of comfort, clear eyes of resolve and a heart mission driven to save our brothers!
Yes you dam right we should win our never go! Our veterans are robbed of their dignity every dam day by politicians, bureaucrats and public whom 99.9 will never serve nor will their children.
While I will say a prayer for the Marines who have fallen in battle abroad and at home, I challenge all veterans young and old to reach to a fellow veteran today with strong hands of comfort, clear eyes of resolve and a heart mission driven to save our brothers!
2
I certainly am in no position to give an intelligent opinion on why a particular unit, let alone any given individual service person who has seen combat chooses to end his or her life. However, I cannot help but think it relevant that since World War Two, America's wars are far from universally popular, have demanded no real sacrifice on the home front, and generally treat those who return after service as just another consumer who has been out of touch for awhile.
Most responsible are those politicians who send our service people abroad with little in the way of clear focus and a satisfactory, meaningful exit strategy. The horrors of war are bad enough, however it cannot help but matter if what you go through seems to have been in vain or you come home to a populace which does not acknowledge that it cannot understand what you have been through. To have the leaders (and most civilians) reduce what you went through to just a contractual obligation on your part -- as if you had merely signed up for a cell phone plan -- must feel like a betrayal to many of our fighters, undoubtedly contributing to self-questioning about the morality of what they at times may have done.
Perhaps useful for those vets suffering from survivors guilt would be to speak with Holocaust survivors (what few are left),as well and their children, who have grown up in environments in which survivor's guilt has played a huge part.
Most responsible are those politicians who send our service people abroad with little in the way of clear focus and a satisfactory, meaningful exit strategy. The horrors of war are bad enough, however it cannot help but matter if what you go through seems to have been in vain or you come home to a populace which does not acknowledge that it cannot understand what you have been through. To have the leaders (and most civilians) reduce what you went through to just a contractual obligation on your part -- as if you had merely signed up for a cell phone plan -- must feel like a betrayal to many of our fighters, undoubtedly contributing to self-questioning about the morality of what they at times may have done.
Perhaps useful for those vets suffering from survivors guilt would be to speak with Holocaust survivors (what few are left),as well and their children, who have grown up in environments in which survivor's guilt has played a huge part.
4
The Marines Corps does not track suicides of former service members, that is a very interesting statement, I thought it was once a marine always a marine, I guess they have made a determination that the numbers would be detrimental to the corp, war is detrimental to life, I hope we as a country have grown as sick and tired of it as i have and are ready to vote for a president who will not bow to the military industrial complex and keep us out of senseless wars like Iraq, and Vietnam, I say that with great respect for the men and women who fought so valiantly in both those wars, but with no respect for our leaders who sent them off to fight them
3
So tragic, and yet so vital that we talk about this reality.
As a mental health professional, I must point out that there are several gold standard evidence-based treatments. EMDR therapy (top level approval by the World Health Organization, DOD and VA) is one that can reduce the impact of trauma effectively. In this therapy, a person is fully in control of the pace as they address traumatic memories. There are higher success rates and lower drop-out rates than other treatments. http://www.emdria.org/?page=CombatTrauma. The unique mechanisms of EMDR are explained in The Wounds Within, a 2015 book about a suicide from the early years of these recent wars and the lessons we are still trying to learn.
Increasingly, VA's/Vet Centers and active duty bases have EMDR trained clinicians and there are well trained community-based clinicians across the country who welcome veterans that seek help outside of the system. The Soldier Center in Clarksville, TN, founded and headed by Vietnam-era Bronze Star recipient and psychologist E.C. Hurley treats soldiers from around the country with EMDR therapy. The hardest step is for the veteran to seek the help, especially when previous attempts to get help have failed.
As a mental health professional, I must point out that there are several gold standard evidence-based treatments. EMDR therapy (top level approval by the World Health Organization, DOD and VA) is one that can reduce the impact of trauma effectively. In this therapy, a person is fully in control of the pace as they address traumatic memories. There are higher success rates and lower drop-out rates than other treatments. http://www.emdria.org/?page=CombatTrauma. The unique mechanisms of EMDR are explained in The Wounds Within, a 2015 book about a suicide from the early years of these recent wars and the lessons we are still trying to learn.
Increasingly, VA's/Vet Centers and active duty bases have EMDR trained clinicians and there are well trained community-based clinicians across the country who welcome veterans that seek help outside of the system. The Soldier Center in Clarksville, TN, founded and headed by Vietnam-era Bronze Star recipient and psychologist E.C. Hurley treats soldiers from around the country with EMDR therapy. The hardest step is for the veteran to seek the help, especially when previous attempts to get help have failed.
2
The Army and the Marines know the vulnerabilities of young men. Their advertising pushes heroism and real action. Be a hero, be a man and join the fighting military. Be a hero. Defend our country. Be a hero. Get shot, step on an IUD, lose your extremities. Be a hero. Lose your sanity. Be a hero. Be homeless. Be a hero. Commit suicide. Be a hero. No young man, no young woman should be in combat until they are at least 21 and have had 3 years in the military before they can volunteer to go to combat. Young people, those under 21, or even 24, have neither the wisdom nor the experience to be sent to, nor volunteer for, combat. Full disclosure of the horrors of combat should be required before going into combat. Who, then, would go into combat? Good question. No answer. I believe, though, that we'd have far fewer tragic lives to attend to.
3
Vets Journey Home an all volunteer national non-profit organization that provide "free" emotional healing opportunities weekends for all veterans, male or female. We provide a safe space to honor you, allow you to share your story with men and women who "get it"!!!!! We also have free weekends for women only and spousal weekends. Check us out at www.vetsjourneyhome.org Transportation can also be provided if needed.
2
I wonder if there is a correlation between rank and suicides. All in the article are lower enlisted and there seems to be a common thread of survivor's guilt. The Marines feel as though if they had acted differently or performed better, then their comrades would have fared better in battle. This guilt seems to be a primary factor in the suicides.
As one moves up in the ranks, they get to see the bigger picture. Perhaps they would know that the mission was well conceived and executed and that bad things happen anyways. They would know the right routes were chosen, intell. was current and reliable, pre-combat checks were done, etc., etc. Maybe there is less guilt with having more information, which comes with rank. A Private or Lance Corporal has a smaller view of the battle space and maybe a feeling of things happening to them, instead of shaping events comes with this. When things happen to you, you will always wonder what if? and this could lead to a dangerous downward spiral.
As one moves up in the ranks, they get to see the bigger picture. Perhaps they would know that the mission was well conceived and executed and that bad things happen anyways. They would know the right routes were chosen, intell. was current and reliable, pre-combat checks were done, etc., etc. Maybe there is less guilt with having more information, which comes with rank. A Private or Lance Corporal has a smaller view of the battle space and maybe a feeling of things happening to them, instead of shaping events comes with this. When things happen to you, you will always wonder what if? and this could lead to a dangerous downward spiral.
2
I've just finished reading this article and the author's accompanying piece, "Unraveling a String of Veteran Marine Suicides, One by One." It strikes me that something I've always held as a given is not, in fact, being accomplished by the VA. What I am referring to is the data analysis of suicides to identify trends in the rates of suicide based on service members' specific deployments, units they were stationed with, etc. With this analysis, the VA would be able to identify deployments and locations that seem to be more highly correlated with suicides and proactively reach out to service members who may be at risk.
What enrages me is not that the VA has merely neglected to do so but, as Philipps' accompanying article states, has purposefully dismissed it as a course of action on the basis that it would be "insulting" to individual service members (Whatever that means.) What is truly insulting, and borderline criminal, is that the VA has purposefully neglected such a powerful tool (data analysis) to help stem the overwhelming wave of suicides that is sweeping the veteran population. As the former CEO of P&G, VA Chief Robert McDonald is certainly aware of the power of data to identify trends amongst different demographics of consumers with the goal of increasing profitability. We must apply the same analytical rigor we have towards making profit to the issue of veterans suicides if we are to stop them before they happen, rather than mourn and deplore them after the fact.
What enrages me is not that the VA has merely neglected to do so but, as Philipps' accompanying article states, has purposefully dismissed it as a course of action on the basis that it would be "insulting" to individual service members (Whatever that means.) What is truly insulting, and borderline criminal, is that the VA has purposefully neglected such a powerful tool (data analysis) to help stem the overwhelming wave of suicides that is sweeping the veteran population. As the former CEO of P&G, VA Chief Robert McDonald is certainly aware of the power of data to identify trends amongst different demographics of consumers with the goal of increasing profitability. We must apply the same analytical rigor we have towards making profit to the issue of veterans suicides if we are to stop them before they happen, rather than mourn and deplore them after the fact.
6
I am so tired of reading article after article about the state of affairs with our Vets in this country. I am a Licensed Clinical Social Worker / Therapist practicing in S. Florida. If you or anyone you know is waiting for treatment I would be glad to help at a rate that you can afford. Please don't wait another second. This has got to stop. 954.348.5196
8
How can these brave men not be supported by the veterans admin. I am ashamed that we haven't done more to help. President Obama should be ashamed to show his face in public.
Dave Phillips -- I don't know the men of the 2/7 but you do. You know how to contact them & evidently they trust you because they talked to you. There is something else you can do to help them. The clue to that is in your article. Instinctively they turned to each other for help. 1) does each one have a laptop or an iPad and/or a Smartphone? 2) Does each one have Skype? If not each can get a laptop or iPad and/or Smartphone- Do you know how to set up crowd funding to get these devices for those who can't afford one? They have already established connections through that spread sheet. They can take it from there, creating something like an AA group in which each one has a sponsor -- and is a sponsor for another man in the 2/7 even if they don't live close to each other. That gives each man someone specific to whom he can turn when the world turns in on him and another someone toward whom he has some responsibility.. They can meet as a group through Skype since they seem to be scattered geographically. Face to face meetings might be best but if they can't do that they can still meet. We live in a technological world -- use it! I'm a clinical Nurse Specialist -- when I see a wound my first thought is to ask what would best promote the swiftest healing & prevent infection. Can you do this? I bet they can.
5
My son was in this battalion. I remember visiting their base at 29 Palms and spending time with one of the young men who has since committed suicide. The terror a parent has when their child is in a war is indescribable and it is impossible to comprehend what the Marines experienced.
I remember in detail the early morning when this battalion arrived back from Afghanistan. I had driven for hours to this desolate base in the middle of the Mojave Desert. Arriving in the afternoon, I learned that the arrival had been delayed. There were repeated delays as it got darker, colder and fog rolled over the field. Children who had been running around were eventually asleep in their cars. There was no food or water nearby. The buses arrived around 2:30 AM. I have never forgotten the looks on the Marine's faces and their overwhelming fatigue-not just physical fatigue. It was not like the videos you see of dads or moms sneaking up on their kids at school. It was one of the grimmest scenes I have witnessed. There were no bands or confetti. I understand there was encouragement to talk about PTSD, but they also got messages from outside recruiters that they would not be considered for certain jobs if they had PTSD.
To you Marines who are out there, please don't give up hope when a counselor doesn't work for you. Keep trying. Other vets and professionals are skilled at listening. I know that if you made it through your deployments, you are the exceptional among us, and we need you!
I remember in detail the early morning when this battalion arrived back from Afghanistan. I had driven for hours to this desolate base in the middle of the Mojave Desert. Arriving in the afternoon, I learned that the arrival had been delayed. There were repeated delays as it got darker, colder and fog rolled over the field. Children who had been running around were eventually asleep in their cars. There was no food or water nearby. The buses arrived around 2:30 AM. I have never forgotten the looks on the Marine's faces and their overwhelming fatigue-not just physical fatigue. It was not like the videos you see of dads or moms sneaking up on their kids at school. It was one of the grimmest scenes I have witnessed. There were no bands or confetti. I understand there was encouragement to talk about PTSD, but they also got messages from outside recruiters that they would not be considered for certain jobs if they had PTSD.
To you Marines who are out there, please don't give up hope when a counselor doesn't work for you. Keep trying. Other vets and professionals are skilled at listening. I know that if you made it through your deployments, you are the exceptional among us, and we need you!
8
I would like to suggest that if other places and therapies havr not helped that veterans still troubled contact Patriot Outreach (Google them) which is run by two Retired Cols, combat veterans, one of whom is experienced in treatment of PTSD and readjustment issues. Treatment is free, no strings. no drugs.
I am also a veteran who served in the Vietnan war.
I am also a veteran who served in the Vietnan war.
3
Truly heartbreaking article. Truly. Made me also wonder how Afghans are coping (or not coping).
6
This story is the best reason to reinstate the draft, but before that, all of the hawks in our government should be air dropped into their favorite war zones.
10
As a human being who spent BOTH our lives (yes, hubby was a flier ) and Yale Phi Beta,and I a survivor of being a crew member saving hundreds of people in a hijacking.....you are NOT alone.
We have spent our LIVES trying to create QUALITY rather than the staus quo today of Quantity.
Love to ALL. We will DIE doing the best we can.
We have spent our LIVES trying to create QUALITY rather than the staus quo today of Quantity.
Love to ALL. We will DIE doing the best we can.
1
Thank you for bringing attention to this horrifying problem. A few things seem important to look at. One, is noting how many Hispanic people, who have been so unjustly portrayed by politicians, have given so much for our country. Another is that the current standard therapy, desensitization does not work for everyone, and other types of therapy, besides drugs, need to be studied. The anxiety and guilt experienced because of the soldiers participation in war needs to be a priority for helping them after their service. The last thing that should be looked into is the way modern basic training is very different than basic training before and much more effective, might be having a detrimental effect on veterans after service. If there is so much effort put into training soldiers not to hesitate to shoot others, it really has to be looked into whether they can just drop this and how it effects the soldiers on their return to civilian life. Another thing to look into, is shown by one of the comments by a veteran of Vietnam. He was in Vietnam for a specific amount of time, and then knew he would be sent to spend the remaining time of his service in a safer place. The professionalization of the armed services might therefore, be contributing to the overwhelming amount of trauma affecting soldiers today. To read that the VA and the Armed services are not consulting each other, even to tract suicides of specific units is very disheartening.
4
Despite all the talk about how important our soldiers are this country continues to fail them when they need help the most: after they come home. This happened after WWII, the Korean War, the Vietnam War, and so on down the line. We spend more money incarcerating people than we do on helping them, veteran status of not. I read this story and wept for the families of the Marines who took their lives, for the Marines themselves who needed help rather than neglect from our government. We have no business recruiting young men and women to fight our wars if we are unwilling to give them the help they need when they return home. That includes physical and mental help, not just an honorable discharge or guaranteed care at the VA hospital. it means caring for them on days other than Memorial Day or Veterans Day.
If we are going to send people out to fight, to be killing machines, we owe them time to readjust, time to talk about what happened without fear of judgement or retribution. Perhaps we should bring back the draft. At least that way our elected officials would have the same worries that other families have when their sons and daughters go to war. They might even fight for better treatment all around for veterans. I think that anyone who wants to declare a war should have some "skin" in the game.
If we are going to send people out to fight, to be killing machines, we owe them time to readjust, time to talk about what happened without fear of judgement or retribution. Perhaps we should bring back the draft. At least that way our elected officials would have the same worries that other families have when their sons and daughters go to war. They might even fight for better treatment all around for veterans. I think that anyone who wants to declare a war should have some "skin" in the game.
5
The situation after WWI was so dire that when thousands of veterans marched on Washington to demand some of their owed pay, Herbert Hoover had the police open fire and two veterans were killed. He then ordered the Army to burn their depression encampment belongings. Imagine treating War veterans that way. We have a long history of ignoring the needs of our veterans.
3
Let's attempt to create an ideal therapy situation for these soldiers. They deploy as a group, they return as a group. Instead of being discharged from the military, they return to a non combat placement in the US where they can deal with each other and the war traumas and issues with each other, getting used to a noncombat life, and being out of a war zone. They have both group and individual therapy with an experienced therapists who have also experienced combat. No therapist will suggest that a war experience is like a break up with a girl friend, because they know better. Newer methods of treating PTSD will be utilized, including EMDR. Perhaps a year. Then, they will be discharged and will geographically disperse to try to adapt to civilian life and its challenges.
Group support will continue via Skype weekly with the same therapist, and members will be in communication with one another. The group will have signed a no suicide contract and if some one is in a desperate emotional situation, they can always get listened to and helped 24/7. They will also agree to not have any guns in their homes.
Group support will continue via Skype weekly with the same therapist, and members will be in communication with one another. The group will have signed a no suicide contract and if some one is in a desperate emotional situation, they can always get listened to and helped 24/7. They will also agree to not have any guns in their homes.
5
I have nothing new to add to these comments but just need to say it - I'm absolutely heartbroken reading this. Veterans, you are loved and valued, even if we as a society haven't figured out how to express that. I hope this story and others like it are able to have an impact. I, for one, will truly be more mindful of this issue now and consider it of candidates I vote for.
8
This is not just a veterans' problem alone but a societal one as well. We all must listen with our hearts and act. No soldier should come
This is a multi-faceted problem whose solutions are not forthcoming, but there is astounding research being done with MDMA-assisted psychotherapy. For someone suffering from PTSD, it just might be the kickstart needed to move toward healing. I realize there's a stigma associated with currently illegal drugs, but it's worth your time to consider it: http://mdmaptsd.org/.
As a Naval Aviator I flew ASW aircraft. Selection of Anti-submarine warfare kept me from assignment in Viet Nam. Had I served there I may not have returned, or may have been wounded or scarred from years as a POW. I am grateful for my 40+ years that many of my Academy classmates were denied, but I wish I had served in Viet Nam. Combat ties you even closer to your comrades, the very ties that bind the Marines of 2/7.
All servicemen and servicewomen put their lives on the line daily. Injured or killed in training, flying from aircraft carriers. The stress of daily missions left its mark on me, as it did on every pilot. I had nightmares for years. I hated flying on airlines, listening to noises, wondering if the pilot would react as I would. Indeed, each veteran encounters a big transition to civilian life. I know our VA can do much better in their support.
I have witnessed the VA’s need for modernizing hospitals and clinics. Lack of funding and lack of leadership from its bureaucracy cripple efforts. New Secretaries come and go. They intend to succeed, but the task of rebuilding the VA is like “turning a Battleship”. Without recognition by the President and Congress, failure is inevitable. Stop feuding over “Obamacare”, immigration reform, Benghazi, and come together to act for our veterans. Propose and pass legislation to fund rebuilding the infrastructure of the VA, facilities and programs to care for those who have preserved and protected our nation.
All servicemen and servicewomen put their lives on the line daily. Injured or killed in training, flying from aircraft carriers. The stress of daily missions left its mark on me, as it did on every pilot. I had nightmares for years. I hated flying on airlines, listening to noises, wondering if the pilot would react as I would. Indeed, each veteran encounters a big transition to civilian life. I know our VA can do much better in their support.
I have witnessed the VA’s need for modernizing hospitals and clinics. Lack of funding and lack of leadership from its bureaucracy cripple efforts. New Secretaries come and go. They intend to succeed, but the task of rebuilding the VA is like “turning a Battleship”. Without recognition by the President and Congress, failure is inevitable. Stop feuding over “Obamacare”, immigration reform, Benghazi, and come together to act for our veterans. Propose and pass legislation to fund rebuilding the infrastructure of the VA, facilities and programs to care for those who have preserved and protected our nation.
6
Veteran's Passport to Hope, an amazing non-profit organization in Denver, Colorado has complied an incredible "virtual resource" of free services offered to qualifying Veteran's AND their familiy members. This is the best list of services I have ever encountered. In less than 3 years, #VP2H has raised close to $750,000.00 to support Colorado Based, Veteran-focused, non-profit through their annual award of grant money from generous donations. www.veteransresourceportal.com
4
See article, The Hill-- ‘GOP Blocks Veterans Bill’ Feb 27, 2014.
‘Senate Republicans stopped Democrats from advancing a bill that would have expanded healthcare and education programs for veterans.’
The Gop anti govt budget slashers don’t support our troops in need.. They have no responsibility to society.
And how many Repubs have been notorious draft dodgers over decades? All while asking for our votes? Then they habitually play the patriotism card in their campaigns and war policies?
I'd like to see some comparisons with other democracies on their care of veterans' needs. How about those with universal health care already traditional in their countries?
‘Senate Republicans stopped Democrats from advancing a bill that would have expanded healthcare and education programs for veterans.’
The Gop anti govt budget slashers don’t support our troops in need.. They have no responsibility to society.
And how many Repubs have been notorious draft dodgers over decades? All while asking for our votes? Then they habitually play the patriotism card in their campaigns and war policies?
I'd like to see some comparisons with other democracies on their care of veterans' needs. How about those with universal health care already traditional in their countries?
7
Costs money we do not have
We have plenty of money.
1
This is a problem that needs to be dealt with about 21% of soldiers who come back from war commit suicide. After they gain victory in the physical battle they come back home thinking they're safe but many go through a mental battle which causes them to commit suicide . This is a conflict that needs to be resolved, soldiers protect their country and after they're done the government throws them away and forgets about them as if they're just waste. A long time ago soldiers were the most prestigious people and now they're treated like trash, after coming home they cant even find a job. And people wonder why they commit suicide.
4
I am a former Marine who is also the CEO of Operation Restored Warrior. We are a nonprofit organization of veterans healing other veterans with PTSD/TBI. We know the VA isn't helping but ORW is an organization that heals the heart to overcome PTSD. Other organizations help but we heal. This story is all to familiar as the men who come through our Drop Zone program have similar stories and backgrounds. If you need help please contact me through our website www.operationrestoredwarrior.org, or email [email protected]
Semper Fi
Kevin
Semper Fi
Kevin
5
There are some very wise people among these responders with some very good ideas. When I first read this article there were 475 comments. At this count there are over 678 and there will be more no doubt. You are sure to miss one or two which could be helpful. Keep looking. (Some aren't as helpful as they might be - ignore those and concentrate on the ones which you find helpful.) The NYT has also published a video about a hot line at the Canandaigua, NY VA - look for it. There is genuine help out there -- including some from various VAs. Vets & their buddies and their families can find help among these commentators. Look together - you will get better results because some will see useful comments others miss. Best to all of you - and thanks for serving and risking your lives and your minds. You deserve the best, whatever that may be for each of you.
5
My heart goes out to all of these men and their families. What a world we live in .. you've seen so much of the cold shadows the lurk over humanity ... I can only pray that, with time, you will learn to see some of the simple beauty that also surrounds us.
2
There are no real winners of any war as this article has depicted. Whoever went to war are forever changed and injured inside. We should treat war and battles as the last resort of any conflict. I wish all the Republican presidential candidates had read this article before they went to the debate last week. In the mean time, we should invest in research in understanding how the neural memory functions so we can eventually devise effective treatment to those who carried out the most devastating missions for the country.
3
If there are no " real winners " why do we have wars, why do we start wars. Try counting backwards to note how many we have begun. Got enough fingers on one hand?
2
May God bless these men....and may he send some in this story to ......
1
Reading this article brought home the true cost of war. I wonder whether previous war Vets committed suicide as frequently or whether the statistical tracking is just better today. There is no question that the VA and the mental health industry is ill equipped and prepared to take care of these men. I suggest that we equip these Vets with a card which would enable them to get care from licensed providers wherever they may live at no cost to them. I also think the suggestion to pay the cost of regular get togethers of the unit might be a great investment.
5
It appears that the purpose of Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld was to leave these guys hanging in the wind, both in their repeated no-win deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan, and later in an underfunded VA. No amount of patriotic spiel will make up for these lost lives. Both wars could have been fought differently, and the consensus today that Iraq not at all (and i am one of those that believed that an honest mistake was made on Iraq).
Their buddies are ready to shut down the government again over family planning for poor women. Does this include a shut down for VA services? It's not too late to go after those who profited from all those no-bid contracts (including Cheney), and increase funding for both programs.
Their buddies are ready to shut down the government again over family planning for poor women. Does this include a shut down for VA services? It's not too late to go after those who profited from all those no-bid contracts (including Cheney), and increase funding for both programs.
4
Tough times produce crybabies or men.
Or apparently psychopaths.
Yesterday i read the fine article by Dave Phillips on the many cases of suicide among American marines in the Second Battalion, Seventh Marine Regiment. I was and am horrified No wonder there are so many sucides.
Today i read an article in the Times, U.S. Soldiers Told To Ignore Afghan Allies Abuse Of Boys by Joseph Goldstein. It's about "boy play" or pedophila. Soldier are told to ignore it as it is part of their culture. Yes, i am aware this has gone on down through the centuries but i would think by now anybody half civilized or a country existing in the 21st Century would be doing everything possible to curb this practice.
But no, it seems our soldiers who detest this practice have to listen to the screams of boys a floor below them being raped by grown men. More suicides.? More soldiers shot? More soldiers forced to leave?
After reading this i better understand the suicide problem.
May God forgive us all. I say this as a half Agnostic.
Today i read an article in the Times, U.S. Soldiers Told To Ignore Afghan Allies Abuse Of Boys by Joseph Goldstein. It's about "boy play" or pedophila. Soldier are told to ignore it as it is part of their culture. Yes, i am aware this has gone on down through the centuries but i would think by now anybody half civilized or a country existing in the 21st Century would be doing everything possible to curb this practice.
But no, it seems our soldiers who detest this practice have to listen to the screams of boys a floor below them being raped by grown men. More suicides.? More soldiers shot? More soldiers forced to leave?
After reading this i better understand the suicide problem.
May God forgive us all. I say this as a half Agnostic.
5
Reminds me of Penn State football. You would expect war to be any different?
I've had mixed treatment from the VA, ranging from good to pathetic. But the larger issue goes to the priorities set by Americans through their political "leaders."
We have deluded ourselves that American exceptionalism requires a "muscular" foreign policy that celebrates military intervention first and political negotiation last in support of corrupt autocratic foreign regimes and domestic special interests.
We prioritize purchase of uber-costly weapons programs, like the F-35 and the Navy carrier fleets. And we exploit the patriotism of idealistic, relatively poor young men.
We need a draft that insures that the kids & and grandkids of our war-monger class serve at the front lines of the optional wars they foster on the rest of us.
We have deluded ourselves that American exceptionalism requires a "muscular" foreign policy that celebrates military intervention first and political negotiation last in support of corrupt autocratic foreign regimes and domestic special interests.
We prioritize purchase of uber-costly weapons programs, like the F-35 and the Navy carrier fleets. And we exploit the patriotism of idealistic, relatively poor young men.
We need a draft that insures that the kids & and grandkids of our war-monger class serve at the front lines of the optional wars they foster on the rest of us.
4
And meanwhile, a companion story tells us of Marines being prosecuted--and persecuted--by the military for trying to stop the rape of children by our Afghan allies, and of the deaths of several Marines that may be related to their attempts to stop those rapes.
Post WWII, we were all taught that orders are no excuse for soldiers committing or permitting evil. We had the lesson of Vietnam--that we cannot trust our government to engage only in *good wars.*
Yet men--and women--continue to enlist, now that the draft is ended, and to go off on dubious justification to kill and maim the citizens of other countries, and then to come back as shattered human beings who affect everyone around them like a toxic miasma.
Sorry. You had no business going to war. You were complicit in the destruction of your own lives.
Post WWII, we were all taught that orders are no excuse for soldiers committing or permitting evil. We had the lesson of Vietnam--that we cannot trust our government to engage only in *good wars.*
Yet men--and women--continue to enlist, now that the draft is ended, and to go off on dubious justification to kill and maim the citizens of other countries, and then to come back as shattered human beings who affect everyone around them like a toxic miasma.
Sorry. You had no business going to war. You were complicit in the destruction of your own lives.
God, I wish we could have sent each member of Congress, President Bush, Vice President Cheney, all members of the military, Pentagon, all Cabinet members to these wars, straight to the frontlines, where they belonged. Let them give to their country, in a way that most people could ever imagine giving. Cowards, all of them hiding behind the uniforms of those who choose to enlist.
3
After reading this article I want every Republican candidate for the Presidency to read it as well. They nearly all sounded like they believe war is the answer to Isis, war is the answer to Iran's nuclear development, war is the answer to Assad in Syria, and that if all of those conflicts don't keep American servicemen busy they can be deployed to the 2,000 mile long wall along the southern border. Meanwhile the ones who have actually served in these wars come home broken to a broken system for veteran health. We don't need any more misbegotten wars. And it is frightening to hear a dozen-plus contenders for the position of Commander-in-Chief wax poetic about warfare, while sneering at diplomacy. Where were these people during the fiascos of Afghanistan and Iraq? What do they THINK led to the rise of Isis if not our horrible blunder of invading Iraq when there was zero justification. This warmongering may play well to some of the Republican base, but to the rest of us it is just plain terrifying.
3
It's possible too someone is facilitating these suicides.
In 2001, no heroin was produced in Afghanistan.
In 2002, when US military arrived in there, Afghanistan became the world's leading producer of heroin, producing over 6 trillion dollars worth of heroin, displacing Myanmar as the world's leading heroin producer.
The worst of the worst in organized crime will do most anything to control the lucrative heroin trade.
Our soldiers were witness to this, guarded the heroin poppy fields in Helmand and elsewhere, when directed to do so, because, as they were told, the poppies represented the local economy.
Gen. Harold Greene, an engineer and materials science expert, understood better than most, that kerosene or jet fuel doesn't collapse a steel reinforced structure. He was shot on cue, as an easel was set up on a base in Afghanistan, with not one, not two, but three precise kill shots, to the head, heart, and major artery in the upper thigh.
Something as valuable as six trillion dollars in heroin will be protected no matter the cost, no matter who needs to die.
In 2001, no heroin was produced in Afghanistan.
In 2002, when US military arrived in there, Afghanistan became the world's leading producer of heroin, producing over 6 trillion dollars worth of heroin, displacing Myanmar as the world's leading heroin producer.
The worst of the worst in organized crime will do most anything to control the lucrative heroin trade.
Our soldiers were witness to this, guarded the heroin poppy fields in Helmand and elsewhere, when directed to do so, because, as they were told, the poppies represented the local economy.
Gen. Harold Greene, an engineer and materials science expert, understood better than most, that kerosene or jet fuel doesn't collapse a steel reinforced structure. He was shot on cue, as an easel was set up on a base in Afghanistan, with not one, not two, but three precise kill shots, to the head, heart, and major artery in the upper thigh.
Something as valuable as six trillion dollars in heroin will be protected no matter the cost, no matter who needs to die.
2
Another rampant, out of control DOD contact with Big-Pharma. They are in bed with DOD raking in billions over-prescribing and selling "happy pills."
Could it be the enormous amount of anti-depressants the VA hospitals dispense to veterans has something to do with their suicide rate? The mind is complex enough as it is, and when you start feeding it mood altering drugs to adjust behavior God only knows the long or short term consequences.
Could it be the enormous amount of anti-depressants the VA hospitals dispense to veterans has something to do with their suicide rate? The mind is complex enough as it is, and when you start feeding it mood altering drugs to adjust behavior God only knows the long or short term consequences.
2
Manny Bojorquez, Tanner Cleveland, and everyone else from the 2/7: Please know that we hear you. We support you. And we will do whatever we can to make things better, even if we don't yet know what that is.
We're listening. Your stories matter.
We're listening. Your stories matter.
12
Group help is the best. Not saying that the va shouldn't be helping, but those declaring the va system needs more money are wrong . Their budget increased by more than 60% in four years leading up to scandal. More money brought worse outcomes as everyone wanted to hit their new bonuses. Corruption and a government bureaucratic culture is the problem.
The "warrior caste", those of us who went into harm's way for America's best interests are little understood by those who never 'came home'. When most of us came home, we were greeted with a short hug and if lucky, trip to the beach for a few days. The psychology if 'decompression' after leaving combat is best cared for by other veterans who 'get it'. Bureaucrat counselors at the VA or casual conversations with family and friends don't get it done. We need the fellowship of the "caste". We need to understand that we have experiences that none in the 'private sector' can relate to. Our lives are different, more serious, introspective. Private sector people are just that, private and self oriented, without real passion, possessing at best only warm fuzzies. It is they who need help, not us who know life 'down range'.
Maybe forming some sort of veterans' baseball or basketball leagues, some sort of natural way for people who need each other to come together around something positive and uplifting. If such organizations exist, maybe funding could be increased-- it could be a very efficient use of the money. I just want to put that out there.
1
These poor men. They learned how to "kill" an enemy. The tragedy is when they kill the "enemy" inside them.
2
As a former Marine (I was in for 9 years between Korea and Viet Nam, so never saw combat.), my heart bleeds for these 2/7 honorable men and their loved ones. The only ray of hope I see is the bonding experienced on the San Diego mountain top by Mr. Bojorquez and Mr. Guerrero. Let's find a way to replicate those experiences. Perhaps only a Marine who served with Mr. Guerrero can help him deal with his unwarranted feelings of guilt and get beyond them.
In March of 2003, I sat on my balcony and cried uncontrollably, knowing that President Bush was sending my Marine brothers to Iraq to be killed.
This from a man who went AWOL while serving in The National Guard!
The root problem I see is the total disregard on the part of those who could make a difference, for the plight of men and women returning from War.
My recommendation is that the Pentagon, on the occasion of each suicide, send a telegram to President George W. Bush, VP Cheney, Secy Rumsfeld, Senator McConnell and Representative John Boehner (the latter two for failure to support Veterans), notifying them of the death by suicide.
Let those "war mongers" and weak kneed would-be leaders experience some nightmares!
In March of 2003, I sat on my balcony and cried uncontrollably, knowing that President Bush was sending my Marine brothers to Iraq to be killed.
This from a man who went AWOL while serving in The National Guard!
The root problem I see is the total disregard on the part of those who could make a difference, for the plight of men and women returning from War.
My recommendation is that the Pentagon, on the occasion of each suicide, send a telegram to President George W. Bush, VP Cheney, Secy Rumsfeld, Senator McConnell and Representative John Boehner (the latter two for failure to support Veterans), notifying them of the death by suicide.
Let those "war mongers" and weak kneed would-be leaders experience some nightmares!
11
This is exactly why we have to very careful about sending the US military into battle. It canot be done on a whim or because the defense inductry is itching to make a few bucks.
Looking at you, Republicans. You can't stuff the system with veterans and then complain that it's over-stuffed. You can't send soldiers into any battle you manufacture and then whine about veteran suicide.
Peace be with these men and women. If only we could turn back the clock.
Looking at you, Republicans. You can't stuff the system with veterans and then complain that it's over-stuffed. You can't send soldiers into any battle you manufacture and then whine about veteran suicide.
Peace be with these men and women. If only we could turn back the clock.
5
What a horrifying tragedy. Is no one even looking into the notion that this particular battalion might have been exposed to a certain mix of chemical elements that might have influenced their mental health? If there was a housing complex with residents suffering from a particular cancer rate 14 times higher than the national average, I would bet you the EPA (or at least Erin Brockovich) would be testing the soil, water, sheet rock, air ducts, etc. (I suppose that's because there might be some company who could be found negligible and sued, says my cynical side.) Of course, I realize that suicide rates for veterans are horribly, unacceptably higher across all units and branches of service. I just wonder why this problem has escalated so much in this war vs. Vietnam vs. WW2, and why especially it might be so disastrous for one particular unit. At any rate, I thank all the strong men and women who served (and serve today), and wish the failings of the VA system could be a top priority politically.
4
Congressman Rodney Frelinghuysen, you did this. Every time I read about the vets' suicides, PTSD, brain trauma, wasted lives -- I think of my congressman Rodney Frelinghuysen -- I get so angry, I blow a gasket, write a comment which the Times usually refuses to print
Rodney, you spent a year in Vietnam, probably in an air conditioned Quonset hut, came home to inherit your father's perpetually "safe" Republican congressional seat.
Even as a general's aide, you could not possibly have missed the total distain -- no, hatred is the word -- Vietnames villagers had for an occupying Army with big guns, shooting up and destroying their beautiful countryside.
You came home to inherit your father's cushy Congressional seat, spent the next twenty years pretending to support disabled veterans, then voted with Bush, Chaney, Rumsfeld, McCain to borrow money from the Chinese, shoot up and destroy another alien culture, to make the same mistakes -- with all the same foreseeable consequences -- all over again
How can you face your family, much less fellow Viet vets, knowing how your repeated votes enabled these totally foreseeable tragedies.
Of course, you and they would not now have all the perks of the Chairman of powerful House Defense Appropriations. After all the cozying up with defense contractors, schmoozing with Republican elite -- while today's generation of vets rot and die and blow their brains out.
Rodney Frelinghuysen, how can you live with yourself?
Rodney, you spent a year in Vietnam, probably in an air conditioned Quonset hut, came home to inherit your father's perpetually "safe" Republican congressional seat.
Even as a general's aide, you could not possibly have missed the total distain -- no, hatred is the word -- Vietnames villagers had for an occupying Army with big guns, shooting up and destroying their beautiful countryside.
You came home to inherit your father's cushy Congressional seat, spent the next twenty years pretending to support disabled veterans, then voted with Bush, Chaney, Rumsfeld, McCain to borrow money from the Chinese, shoot up and destroy another alien culture, to make the same mistakes -- with all the same foreseeable consequences -- all over again
How can you face your family, much less fellow Viet vets, knowing how your repeated votes enabled these totally foreseeable tragedies.
Of course, you and they would not now have all the perks of the Chairman of powerful House Defense Appropriations. After all the cozying up with defense contractors, schmoozing with Republican elite -- while today's generation of vets rot and die and blow their brains out.
Rodney Frelinghuysen, how can you live with yourself?
10
These guys need great jobs to occupy their minds and heal their souls. Our country is literally falling apart, we could use a few good men to rebuild our country. It would be a win win for us and these soldiers. I know I'm being simplistic but men should be building not killing.
8
And here's one great irony, most members of the military are staunch Republicans. You might jump up and say, "Hey! Don't politicize this!" But it's all about politics people. Wake up. Anyone who watched the GOP presidential debate saw a bunch of ultra-militant nonveterans trying to out-hawk each other. How did our military interventions work out lately? And by that I'd say not just Iraq and Afghanistan, but Vietnam and all the other places. How has it worked out? Wake up people. War is rarely the answer. Very rarely. But it seems the military is the first option for the GOP. Even the vets among the GOP, like Tom Cotton are usually fools who think the military is the answer. That guy is scary. The level of self-righteous arrogance to send a letter to the Ayatollah undermining nuclear negotiations is stunning. Complete ignorance and arrogance.
10
Heartbreaking and complex. And none of it helped by the mountains of psychopharma that VA hospitals heap on these people. It's a boon for the drugmakers, but families and veterans won't know that many of these drugs actually cause suicidal thoughts, and taken with other drugs can have many horrendous side effects that prescribing psychiatrists don't understand (even the manufacturers have poor understanding of how these drugs operate in the brain) and can't help.
5
The VA does the best they can with what they have.
My understanding is that Vets can seek help from civilian doctors.
Do not blame the VA for the victims of a senseless war!
Do you have some drugs that are better that you would recommend?
My understanding is that Vets can seek help from civilian doctors.
Do not blame the VA for the victims of a senseless war!
Do you have some drugs that are better that you would recommend?
We have a product Mood 24/7 that can help and it's free. It allows you to connect with your doctors, family and friends, so they are can help support you. Find out more here Mood247.com
We work closely with Johns Hopkins and the University of Michigan, and currently have research on-going to prove the validity of this treatment method.
I want to encourage this battalion to reach out to me directly to see how I can help. It is enough, and I am willing to stand with you, and do whatever I can.
Terence Finn
Tfinn[at]RemedyHealthMedia[dot]com
CTO, Remedy Health Media
We work closely with Johns Hopkins and the University of Michigan, and currently have research on-going to prove the validity of this treatment method.
I want to encourage this battalion to reach out to me directly to see how I can help. It is enough, and I am willing to stand with you, and do whatever I can.
Terence Finn
Tfinn[at]RemedyHealthMedia[dot]com
CTO, Remedy Health Media
1
Thank you for your actual support and seeking solutions!
I hope your research is correct!
I hope your research is correct!
Once our brave but damaged Marines return from far away, we want them to disappear, because they are an inconvenient truth to our preferred narrative of an all-powerful conquerer, and we're doing a damn fine job of it. We do let them be seen, however, when we sing the National Anthem before the games begin.
5
The military propaganda units put out vast amounts of the wonderful camaraderie that exists between the military bureaucracy and the men and women serving our country, but when one reads of the real situation where veterans are getting completely inadequate medical aid and are forced to wait long weeks and months before being handed some pills it becomes evident that there is no where near the loving attention being given veterans that the Pentagon puts out in its propaganda. Where are all the oratorical patriots that extolled the nobility of dedication to country on Memorial Day but are hard to find in the real world seeing that veterans are properly taken care of?
6
I'm a Marine vet of the Vietnam War. I think I'm qualified to state flatly what this article demonstrates. The government cannot save these guys. Civilian docs and therapists aren't equipped. These Marines can use their Marine Corps training to save themselves. To wit, you're only as good as the guys you're with and you owe them your life. I'm heartened to see that they guys know this, took action, and are saving themselves. They are rejecting the culture of victimhood others want them to embrace. They're hitting the beach.
11
Those of us who are veterans know these stories well. So too should the general public as I have seen this kind of story in the press from time to time every year for the past few years. Yet, it seems to be stories that are noted and then unheeded as was clear when the so called GOP debate had those who never wore a uniform (military high school does not count Mr Trump) beat their chests with bellicose fervor. For our most recently spiritually and physically wounded we can thank such as Dick Cheney (who had other priorities) other other politicians who will gladly send your but not their own children into the mire never to return, if indeed they do, the same.
3
The Draft. We need all to serve and then it would be taken seriously. People who sign up on their own are do not have their lives respected for what they offered so it should not be taken by our government.
2
Trained for war , not trained for peace. Training is not complete. this has to change.
3
The VA at the Federal level, as well as long-term-care facilities at the state level is so incredibly corrupt. Talk about the "Old Boy Network"....the VA wrote the book on that. So many powerful politicians have their buddies in charge of the VA. Crony-ism rules. This will never change. Washington doesn't care about vets if change means their buddies won't get raises. Isn't this shameful? Our very freedom is paid for by the blood of the military, and this is how we treat returning vets. So very American!!! And then Kerry and his buddies want to open the flood gates to refugees and immigrants who will suck our resources dry. Very sad. All for the end to keep power in the hands of a few...and their buddies, of course. Both political parties engage in this.
2
Nearly ten years ago FRONTLINE on PBS covered this. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/heart/view/
During one of our interviews it was explained that PTSD is a normal reaction to an abnormal event. The reaction veterans are having should be expected, anticipated and "pre-treated". How can we train them to kill and then not provide adequate re-acclimation "trainging?". Perhaps some sort of mandatory "civilian life" boot camp.. with as much spent on that as on recruiting and training prior to deployment. That would be a true and balanced way to look at the real cost of war, rather than making veterans carry the cost.. how can their not be a viable network for vets in this day and age? Something like AA that is peer lead and in every city, with sponsors who understand what vets are facing.. or at least some kind of app? If we can do "fitness" challenges with "gym" buddies across the country can we not make an app for vets to have "mental fitness buddies?"
During one of our interviews it was explained that PTSD is a normal reaction to an abnormal event. The reaction veterans are having should be expected, anticipated and "pre-treated". How can we train them to kill and then not provide adequate re-acclimation "trainging?". Perhaps some sort of mandatory "civilian life" boot camp.. with as much spent on that as on recruiting and training prior to deployment. That would be a true and balanced way to look at the real cost of war, rather than making veterans carry the cost.. how can their not be a viable network for vets in this day and age? Something like AA that is peer lead and in every city, with sponsors who understand what vets are facing.. or at least some kind of app? If we can do "fitness" challenges with "gym" buddies across the country can we not make an app for vets to have "mental fitness buddies?"
2
Interesting!
Not one comment about the fact that before Mitch McConnell was a "leader" in the Senate, he voted against more funding for the VA!
Republicans love the troops as long as they fighting wars that make people like Cheney and Eric Prince wealthy but not when they come back broken and dispirited needing massive resources to help them heal!
Shameful and tragic!
Not one comment about the fact that before Mitch McConnell was a "leader" in the Senate, he voted against more funding for the VA!
Republicans love the troops as long as they fighting wars that make people like Cheney and Eric Prince wealthy but not when they come back broken and dispirited needing massive resources to help them heal!
Shameful and tragic!
7
You left out the fact that the va budget increased over 60% between 2010 and 2014.
It feel like the thing that binds them together is the shared experience and coming home they lose the people who understand the experience, and worse are dropped into the population who doesn't understand, is apathetic to, and may have opposition to what they did.
To address the problem seems to need services able to address the violence of the situations, the moral ambiguity with the military and populations interacted with, the intensity of the experiences, but especially the camaraderie under which all of this occurred.
Putting them back into the population takes away the most profound mental underpinnings that held them together - people who shared the same experience, an environment where people relied on them, an environment that was structured, and a group sense of purpose.
Creating this kind of environment at home would be difficult as there may be no way to address all of these at the same intensity of active deployment. It may be the wrong thing to do because it would further isolate them from the population. But some kind of group therapy that connected as many as possible in ways that make them feel connected and understood seems like it would help the kinds of issues this article indicates make them most prone to suicide.
To address the problem seems to need services able to address the violence of the situations, the moral ambiguity with the military and populations interacted with, the intensity of the experiences, but especially the camaraderie under which all of this occurred.
Putting them back into the population takes away the most profound mental underpinnings that held them together - people who shared the same experience, an environment where people relied on them, an environment that was structured, and a group sense of purpose.
Creating this kind of environment at home would be difficult as there may be no way to address all of these at the same intensity of active deployment. It may be the wrong thing to do because it would further isolate them from the population. But some kind of group therapy that connected as many as possible in ways that make them feel connected and understood seems like it would help the kinds of issues this article indicates make them most prone to suicide.
1
There is a small organization run by combat veterans that has a remarkable record of helping our veterans receive healing. The issues are moral wounds that that are at the spiritual level of the heart. We have been working with hundreds of combat veterans over the last three years with eye-opening results. To date, not one active duty or veteran has attempted to take their life after attending our free 5-day program. We go to the root of the cause and don't try to treat the symptoms like everyone else is doing. Not one drug is prescribed. Lives get restored and families get healed. ORW simply works. I want to invite any veteran or active duty to check us out at: www.operationrestoredwarrior.org
1
So grateful for this article ! A valuable organization that is focused on educating the public on Veteran's issues and the need for healing for Moral Injury. Their vision is to involve houses of worship in the healing process. This organization's founder is James H. Mukoyama, Jr., President/CEO: Major General (Retired) U.S. Army. Visit militaryoutreachusa.org to learn ways that you can assist Veterans.
It was hard to read this article. As a veteran of the Vietnam war I know the difficulties of readjustment. I never saw front line combat and I higly reserect any who have. The rewards are few, society can not or will not relate to their problem, so they turn to each other as they did in combat. Brithers in arms my heart goes out to you, I offer this as an alternative method of treatment if the VA has been unhelpful, its a meditation based therapy. I have greatly benefited from it, maybe you will. http://www.patriotoutreach.org/ Its free and I am not affilated with them, but they have helped others.
1
This brilliantly-written article has left me stunned. The one detail my mind keeps returning to is the "therapist" who counseled Manny to think of his comrades' suicides as if he had just broken up with a girl. What kind of person would say something so completely wrong? It sums up the whole, very wrong, reception these young men have received - from a military that abandoned them on the battlefield, a VA system that has worse than abandoned them, and the clueless, heartless and soulless world of 21st century America. A place that doesn't have a lot to offer beyond drugs and a dead-end job for so many. There is a glimmer of hope that some of the survivors have found purpose in helping each other and helping others. A glimmer.
5
I could not agree more. To equate these soldiers' experiences to a breakup indicates that at least some VA "therapists" are at the least woefully trained for their responsibilities, or in the wrong line of work altogether. And a study that finds no correlation between military service and suicide risk, that fails to break out those who have seen combat is poor science with significant policy implications. These soldiers deserve more.
3
A massive amount of damage has occurred, yet to train Doctor to treat such damage occurs after the fact.
It is not helpful to blame the VA when no one had any training, prior to going to the Middle East, on how to treat such mental problems. So someone thinks the doctor was wrong, yet does not understand the problem of a shortage of qualified medical professionals in this nation.
Try to explain how doctors are suppose to be available all over the United States to treat these mental problems!
Local communities will have to step up to the plate and assist in this matter, because the wounded warriors are everywhere!
What can the local community do should be the question!
It is not helpful to blame the VA when no one had any training, prior to going to the Middle East, on how to treat such mental problems. So someone thinks the doctor was wrong, yet does not understand the problem of a shortage of qualified medical professionals in this nation.
Try to explain how doctors are suppose to be available all over the United States to treat these mental problems!
Local communities will have to step up to the plate and assist in this matter, because the wounded warriors are everywhere!
What can the local community do should be the question!
I got the impression that a green therapist fresh out of school had been assigned to this suicidally traumatized veteran - presumably because she came at the lowest possible rate. I can think of no other rational reason for such a selection.
1
The story has even more of a twist. I was in 1/7 Suicide Charley based out of 29 palms. When 2/7 left to afghanistan we had just returned to from Iraq. We were doing a build up for our next deployment. I only had 9 months left of my contract and had already deployed twice. 3 months after 2/7 deployed they called all the short timers back, about 100 of us. Our company commander told us that our sister unit 2/7 was getting hit pretty bad. They had lost so many men they needed combat replacements. We were told if they didn't get enough volunteers that they would pick us. There was no need for them to pick. We would have left that second if we could. We were going to deploy for the last 3-4 months of 2/7's tour and go help them out. Myself and 4 other great men were called into the office. I will never forget this. Our company commander told us that he was not going to send us. Just us 5 in that room. We were all team leaders or squad leaders and all corporals or sergeants. They said we had done our part and they wanted to send (lower) ranked people that were not team leaders or squad leaders. I was shocked but that was that. About a month into that volunteer tour, We lost a brother from our company. We lost LCPL Sims in October. I am scared, I have done all these acts. I lost my Squad leader to his own hand last year. RIP Perez. And now Mahler took his own life last month. RIP Mahler. it's sick and we need help
Xavier Mendoza, Portland Oregon.
Xavier Mendoza, Portland Oregon.
12
Xavier, have you seen the links to http://www.giveanhour.org/GettingHelp.aspx ? If you or a buddy need help, conversation, support, or therapy this organization has clinicians in every town and city willing to help. There are thousands of us out here who support you and your team. Always know that the support is out there, but sometimes not so easy to find. Start with Give an Hour and see if that is helpful. It has been for many. With Metta, Xavier.
3
I have done dealing with this for years now. I have weekly one on one sessions with a PTSD head shrink. I had to fight to get this "advanced" help. Before i was seeing a NP provided by the VA. It's such a joke. I went in to one session telling her how much i think of just ending it. She wrote me a suicide prevention plan and had me come back 4-6 weeks later. I was in shock and I wanted to do right then and there. I have even called the veterans crisis hotline (never again) I ended up getting arrested and sent to a civilian hospital. I know have a 1000 bill from that visit. This article scares me because these men are the same as us. I have done almost all these things. Being a team leader has some added pressure. I never want to appear weak in front of my men or peers. But when Brian, my squad leader did it last october it changed everything. He was always slightly better than me at everything. My greatest honor was serving as his team leader in his squad. I rememeber thinking the same thoughts. If he did it when is my turn. All it takes is a bad day. One day of to much drinking and you never know. I am scared to drink. I avoid it so much because i have woken up with pistols in my hand. I keep truckin along but i know ill never be happy or myself again.
1
Check out The Soldiers Project online & ask them for help. the URL is
thesoldiersproject.org
I hope they can help you.
thesoldiersproject.org
I hope they can help you.
I love and am loved by a Marine war veteran. He is the greatest blessing of my life. His war was years ago but much of what is said here brings back words I have heard. He has lost fellow warriors in battle and later to their demons. Still he struggles over the losses, including to himself. To the world at large I say that we who have not been there are not in a position to judge our veterans on any level. Not the reasons they were there or the choices they make upon return. I am angry over the broken system that should be helping. But I would ask what you do to help. These men and women cannot be helped by a system. They can be helped by each other. And maybe, one warrior at a time, by us if we care enough to speak of them with honor and love each time we speak of them. For we do not know how many in earshot have been there, are waiting to know if there is someone who will accept them for who they are. We cannot fathom what it is to walk their path or what feelings they try to cope with. To our warriors I will say that while I know I do not understand your struggles, I love you all. I ache for your pain, anger, fear, loss. You are all my heroes. I pray for your healing and peace. And most of all I pray that you will find that person who sees that you are what my Marine is to me. Someone perfect, good, gentle and amazing even in the brokenness of yourself, probably because of it. Because the fact is that is much of who you are. I will never understand. But I love you all.
4
I can't add much to the many excellent comments from this important article. I'd like to add that the recent docufilm concerning PTSD and Vets, featuring UW-Madison's Dr. Ricard Davidson has opened eyes and hearts about effective treatment plans for veterans with PTSD and suicidality. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_j1byLKT_c
It is incomprehensible that a government that spends trillions on advanced 21st century military technology has VA psychiatric and psychological services that function akin to the 1950's.
It is incomprehensible that a government that spends trillions on advanced 21st century military technology has VA psychiatric and psychological services that function akin to the 1950's.
1
But no one is forced into the military. Why do Americans join knowing what war is like? Is it the training or the college tuition they are after? Neither is worth the human price they pay.
1
Stacey D--you have captured my feelings about this article exactly. I have been wondering this past week about what I might do to support disabled vets, and now I am going pursue a plan. That we have allowed this to happen is scandalous. We should be ashamed of ourselves. To stand wringing our hands and saying how awful isn't enoough! This article is a call to action! Do something! Lobby your Congressional representatives! Volunteer at your local Vet center! Give to organizations like Wounded Warriors! I challenge every person who reads this article to take positive action to support our veterans--WWII to the present.
1
I wonder whether the unacceptable squalor of some of our VA facilities is in part a reflection of the fact that we have become an all volunteer military in which perhaps 1% serve the 99% of us (as Bernie Sanders has said). But then I recall the squalor depicted in films like "Born on the Fourth of July" and others that showed a similar festering neglect in some of our nation's top VA Hospitals. So now I wonder also if the unacceptable settings and levels of care -- despite the presence of many very good people doing their level headed best to meet the needs of our returning veterans -- are also an inevitable effect of the budgetary sequestration and the endless ranting rhetoric about downsizing government. There is no single cause, there is a multiplicity of inputs results in this outcome - which must be changed. It is not credible to say that we cannot act with urgency to give our veterans the compassionate care and healing environments needed for them to carry on like the brave men and women they are. And perhaps it is time to reinstate the draft ! Our military engagements should not be the sole burden of such a small portion of the population that volunteers.
2
It may be a result of all of those things but for sure it is also the result of a lack of discipline and respect for the troops. How many times have you seen a home or business or church kept immaculately by caretakers who cared enough to hold themselves and others to high standards. The VA has shown time and again that it does not do that. And our government leaders have also demonstrated an unwillingness to hold the VA accountable for its failures. It is one thing not to be able to provide services because of lack of funding etc. but it is another to not provide services because of lack of caring. The abject filth found in many VA facilities throughout the country, and most particularly in the South, is a result of the latter as well as the former.
2
Six mile, have you ever been in a VA hospital?
Or is this all movie insight? I have been in a VA hospital with my dad maybe 10-12 times in the last 5 years. Routine visits and the most serious kind.
Everyone in the US should be as lucky as he was. It was great friendly professional medical care. I can't thank those folks enough.
My own VA treatment as a disabled vet was fine. But with very good private health care I don't need to use the VA so I go somewhere closer.
You should visit a real VA hospital and see what you actually can see not what Tom Cruise saw in that movie.
The VA bless them seems to want to Rx every vet. Those who are combat disabled. Those who were just in combat. Those who spent 2 years in during the 1950s and never deployed anywhere and have absolutely no combat trauma of any kind to treat.
Raise those taxes and improve the facilites. And if anyone can't support higher taxes for that then quit ringing your hands in fake worry and sincerity.
Or is this all movie insight? I have been in a VA hospital with my dad maybe 10-12 times in the last 5 years. Routine visits and the most serious kind.
Everyone in the US should be as lucky as he was. It was great friendly professional medical care. I can't thank those folks enough.
My own VA treatment as a disabled vet was fine. But with very good private health care I don't need to use the VA so I go somewhere closer.
You should visit a real VA hospital and see what you actually can see not what Tom Cruise saw in that movie.
The VA bless them seems to want to Rx every vet. Those who are combat disabled. Those who were just in combat. Those who spent 2 years in during the 1950s and never deployed anywhere and have absolutely no combat trauma of any kind to treat.
Raise those taxes and improve the facilites. And if anyone can't support higher taxes for that then quit ringing your hands in fake worry and sincerity.
2
I was in the Army, 1965-67, although I never saw combat or was sent overseas, I feel great compassion for those who did. I thank the New York Times for publishing an in-depth piece that no other news organization would take the time or spend the money for the extensive research this article needed.
3
You have to wonder how much these suicides is due to the widespread belief that mental disorders are simply signs of character weakness and not real disorders and that "real men" such as Marines wouldn't let themselves be afflicted by them.
Also, regarding the VA system, it is not surprising it has trouble recruiting psychiatrists. It doesn't pay them especially good salaries and makes them work through many levels of administration. There is a shortage of psychiatrists in this country because it is such a low paying specialty. Most residency programs have few if any graduates of American medical schools and are filled with doctors who went to medical school on the Indian subcontinent whose English is often shaky and often have little understanding of American culture, things of vital importance when treating mental diseases.
Also, regarding the VA system, it is not surprising it has trouble recruiting psychiatrists. It doesn't pay them especially good salaries and makes them work through many levels of administration. There is a shortage of psychiatrists in this country because it is such a low paying specialty. Most residency programs have few if any graduates of American medical schools and are filled with doctors who went to medical school on the Indian subcontinent whose English is often shaky and often have little understanding of American culture, things of vital importance when treating mental diseases.
First, my heart goes out to all of our veterans that struggle now due to their service. We must do better for you! At a minimum, I will commit to (1) holding our current elected leaders accountable for meeting the need they created by sending you to war and (2) electing leaders that respect your service enough not to deploy our military, the 1% of this nation that volunteered to protect us, unless we've exhausted all other options.
Second, it's not enough that we salute veterans during halftime of an NFL game or say "thank you for your service" without real follow through. After the game this Sunday afternoon, write a letter to your Senators and Congressperson and call for action. Has VA been given the flexibility, in both process and pay, to hire the best and brightest minds it can find to address these challenges? Does VA have flexibility to offer increased pay and bonuses to attract combat veterans with mental health training? Just a couple ideas offered for consideration.
Second, it's not enough that we salute veterans during halftime of an NFL game or say "thank you for your service" without real follow through. After the game this Sunday afternoon, write a letter to your Senators and Congressperson and call for action. Has VA been given the flexibility, in both process and pay, to hire the best and brightest minds it can find to address these challenges? Does VA have flexibility to offer increased pay and bonuses to attract combat veterans with mental health training? Just a couple ideas offered for consideration.
2
The sad truth is soldiers and vets are expendable. Quite literally. Any therapy that does not address the problem in the context of the environment that produced these wars will fail. The VA by definition will not support this point of view.
Awful to hurt like these veterans. As a non-combat veteran, I know there is no way I can fully understand. Having said that, there is an almost 100% common thread: abuse of drugs and booze. Hard for anyone, military or not, to quit once hooked, but nonetheless quitting must be a priority. Try comparing the combat vets' suicide rate with that of non-veteran substance abusers.
As a related note, the elimination of the draft will prove, in retrospect, to be a very hurtful to the welfare of the USA, for several reasons. First, it becomes too easy to go to war since few families are directly affected. Second, national defense is left to a tiny segment of society, not representative of the whole. This is inherently unhealthy for everyone. Third, an all-volunteer military is of necessity too expensive. Better to re-instate a draft for mandatory national service, which should include non-military work as well as military.
As a related note, the elimination of the draft will prove, in retrospect, to be a very hurtful to the welfare of the USA, for several reasons. First, it becomes too easy to go to war since few families are directly affected. Second, national defense is left to a tiny segment of society, not representative of the whole. This is inherently unhealthy for everyone. Third, an all-volunteer military is of necessity too expensive. Better to re-instate a draft for mandatory national service, which should include non-military work as well as military.
2
It is shameful that we lack the essential humanity to demand this state of affairs change. We have used these men and women as shields and yet when they return, we abandon them. How is that acceptable? This must be set right. If we accept them in the military, we must assist them when they return, to heal from their traumas and reenter society. What have we become?
3
EXCELLENT article by DAVE PHILIPPS. Thank you NY Times for the highly-deserved importance and prominence you gave this article, and the subject of suicide amongst combat Veterans, and, for putting this article on the front page above the fold. I will stop with these comments - understandably, I know you could not print the other comments I would make.
5
Can we place oneself into the lives of these youngsters? Why they joined, their expectations about the kind of war they thought they were fighting, what they discovered when they got there, and how any gap between the two may have contributed to the crisis they live every day. The VA is a part of the establishment. It cannot address these fraught moral issues about right and wrong, about expectation and reality, and yet these issues may be central to the post-war experience of veterans.
The horrors of battle may have led to postwar suicides of WWII veterans. But this feels different - the violence may still be central but now there is a thick overlay, I think, of futility, of meaninglessness, of the question - all this, all this, and what for?
The horrors of battle may have led to postwar suicides of WWII veterans. But this feels different - the violence may still be central but now there is a thick overlay, I think, of futility, of meaninglessness, of the question - all this, all this, and what for?
18
Agree wholeheartedly.
1
Exactly! I don't think that many of the recruits truly appreciated what they were getting into nor how many Americans oppose many of the "actions" we have gotten our selves into. They are, in my opinion, very naive when they go in.
This is about the terrible, crushing human and personal cost of war that dose not make cut for the panoply of evening news hype.
Unquestionably a heartbreaking portrayal of a situation that mostly goes unrecognized or unseen by the vast numbers of Americans who have no real connection to those so horrendously haunted and effected essentially for the rest of their lives. These suicides are wrenching, but know that many more veterans suffer in silence with the psychological and physical impact of their service and never take their own lives.
I agree without reservation with all of the comments of revulsion with the failures to address the impacts of our often frivolous national choices in favor of war making and war fighting. Let me say it again, our frivolous national choices, often despite broad public distain for these political actions.
The litany of those, our collective bellicose choices, from the Vietnam war to the present is one of overwhelming ineffectiveness in military actions that had little to do with bolstering or preserving the security of our nation or our vital national interests.
No amount of flag waving, or praising of sacrifice, or lamenting the supposedly necessary carnage of these grievous moral miscarriages of a truly sacred trust and responsibility can be absolved. Yet as a nation we persist in these disastrous actions.
Unquestionably a heartbreaking portrayal of a situation that mostly goes unrecognized or unseen by the vast numbers of Americans who have no real connection to those so horrendously haunted and effected essentially for the rest of their lives. These suicides are wrenching, but know that many more veterans suffer in silence with the psychological and physical impact of their service and never take their own lives.
I agree without reservation with all of the comments of revulsion with the failures to address the impacts of our often frivolous national choices in favor of war making and war fighting. Let me say it again, our frivolous national choices, often despite broad public distain for these political actions.
The litany of those, our collective bellicose choices, from the Vietnam war to the present is one of overwhelming ineffectiveness in military actions that had little to do with bolstering or preserving the security of our nation or our vital national interests.
No amount of flag waving, or praising of sacrifice, or lamenting the supposedly necessary carnage of these grievous moral miscarriages of a truly sacred trust and responsibility can be absolved. Yet as a nation we persist in these disastrous actions.
16
This article tore me up. My condolences to all who have lost a son, a brother, a husband, a parent, a comrade and a friend. I implore every soldier struggling with PTSD and the horrors they experienced at war to PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE hang in there. Too many people love you, need you and want you here with them. I'm going to look into volunteer gigs that offer help to veterans and do what I can to make it easier for these brave kids to stay with us and not give up. And I urge anyone else moved by this article to do the same. It's the very least we can do.
2
A couple months ago someone from West Point was on the suicide ward for all the standard reasons. The mental health employees were resigned to managing medications and dishing narcotics. The military has changed from 20 years ago when screwing up your family was 'a quaint part of your service. Nowadays, you're a combatant 24/7, there are no errors and every offense is punishable.
The United States sent these young men far away, exposing them to extreme danger for little purpose, and then welcomed them back into a society that values unlimited access to firearms. Even now, when confronted with the 88 persons PER DAY who are killed by firearms, advocates for unlimited gun availability will shrug and say "Two thirds of them are suicides."
Suicides were precious lives worth saving, and this article is a portrait of the deep injustice of valuing firearms over life.
Suicides were precious lives worth saving, and this article is a portrait of the deep injustice of valuing firearms over life.
2
What might help are formal and regular statements from the US political class that the wars they started were entered blindly, supported by lies, badly mangled in conduct, and ultimately pointless regarding US security. (No, Jeb, your brother did not keep these veterans at all safe.) The anger and rage is going inward and needs to go outward to hold accountable criminal politicians and corporations who have promoted what's turned out to be endless war. It is not AT ALL the fault or responsibility of US service people or veterans that national policies since 1964 have been so bankrupt. So let's begin with apologies from the very top, and follow up with massive financial and material support for veteran care. And maybe a foundational shift in our pernicious US foreign policies.
1
No doubt.
First and foremost, God bless our men and women in the military, past, present, and future. This article --which was masterly written-- highlights the issues that veterans face when they return home from service. Mr. Philipps' article also draws attention to our inability, as a society, to offer the consistent and effective help these brave men and women need and deserve. I know that people often want to blame those who feel are responsible for the condition of our veterans, but blame produces very little results. As with any issue that hinders growth and progress, the first step of understanding a problem is to admit that a problem is present. I do believe, that as a nation, we are becoming more honest with ourselves and stating, for the record, that our veterans are facing serious, often life-altering and tragically life-ending problems when coming back home after service. I think the next step must take place soon: a solution. While we, as a nation of thoughtful people, create a better course of action, that will better help our veterans return to life post-service, I hope our veterans --our kind, strong heroes-- will hang on and live.
I don't know what it will take to fix the V.A. --- but it is clear that this Administration is incapable of it.
2
Jon E. Dunspaugh, a decorated Marine, assisted his wife Jean in designing the black granite Viet Nam Memorial in front of the hometown Columbia County courthouse. Unknown to him at the time, his battlefield exposure to agent orange was about to present itself in all it's painful reality. It didn't take very long for Jon and Jean, each the love of their lives since they first locked eyes in the hallway in 7th grade, to realize their life together was ending faster than sand through an hourglass. Now, she visits Arlington when she can.
God bless all our vets. Their suffering is lifelong. Never give up. People care.
God bless all our vets. Their suffering is lifelong. Never give up. People care.
(ANOTHER) supremely vital article (read: wake-up call). One paragraph that struck me as particularly important:
...“The V.A. has done more to try to prevent suicide than anyone has done in the history of the human race.” Mr. Bryan, who runs the National Center for Veterans Studies at the University of Utah, added: “But most veterans who kill themselves do not go to treatment or give up. They are not interested. That is the challenge.”
Bottom line: Studies repeatedly indicate that a great percentage (one study says as many as half) of veterans with PTSD or depression DO NOT SEEK HELP.
No matter how big the VA is (and it's huge), it cannot meet the need on its own. Others of us must help by engaging veterans and military families in creative ways to help open the gateway for veterans to be able to regain control of their own life narrative. My organization is the first entity I know of to use filmmaking to enable vets to creative visual narratives together - making short films. We have held more than 30 I WAS THERE Film Workshops at major Army bases...and participants report a nearly 20% drop in PTSD symptoms after attending. Yet, it's been a struggle to even get the VA's attention... Jerry Maguire's "Help me, help you," comes to mind.
We will keep fighting to offer the VA the assistance it needs (persistence is a family trait)... And articles like this help so much. Let's get busy.
Benjamin Patton
Patton Veterans Project, NYC
iwastherefilms.org
...“The V.A. has done more to try to prevent suicide than anyone has done in the history of the human race.” Mr. Bryan, who runs the National Center for Veterans Studies at the University of Utah, added: “But most veterans who kill themselves do not go to treatment or give up. They are not interested. That is the challenge.”
Bottom line: Studies repeatedly indicate that a great percentage (one study says as many as half) of veterans with PTSD or depression DO NOT SEEK HELP.
No matter how big the VA is (and it's huge), it cannot meet the need on its own. Others of us must help by engaging veterans and military families in creative ways to help open the gateway for veterans to be able to regain control of their own life narrative. My organization is the first entity I know of to use filmmaking to enable vets to creative visual narratives together - making short films. We have held more than 30 I WAS THERE Film Workshops at major Army bases...and participants report a nearly 20% drop in PTSD symptoms after attending. Yet, it's been a struggle to even get the VA's attention... Jerry Maguire's "Help me, help you," comes to mind.
We will keep fighting to offer the VA the assistance it needs (persistence is a family trait)... And articles like this help so much. Let's get busy.
Benjamin Patton
Patton Veterans Project, NYC
iwastherefilms.org
I worked at the VA. Revisiting traumatic events as a treatment for PTSD works for the Vietnam-era veterans, I think because they are at a point in life when they can no longer repress the memories anyway (I think this is a function of how much energy one has). These younger servicemen, and particularly those who had multiple deployments, or who felt their service was unsupported by the DOD or by the community at large in the States, seem to be reliving the traumas repeatedly, making me wonder what has happened to their protective ability to repress them (while they are young and have abundant energy to allow them to do so? This seems to be a different issue. Maybe social media and the ability to maintain intimacy with their service members is feeding this process.
I do believe that they need a different type of treatment, without knowing what that will be.
I do believe that they need a different type of treatment, without knowing what that will be.
May I ask what does it have to take for this country to seriously, let alone genuinely care for those who put on that uniform and fight for this country? Once again, I find it beyond deplorable that we can easily send people off to war, but not take genuine care of them afterwards! Our veterans should not have to want -let alone navigate a maze- for anything! I'm with Arjan, Martin, Murray and the Concerned Citizen on this one.
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Go to the Vimeo homepage and search for the award winning short video: "Warrior Within"
It's about healing from the trauma of war. The link in my previous post did not work properly.
It's about healing from the trauma of war. The link in my previous post did not work properly.
This is tragic.
On the VA healthcare system, it depends upon where you are. The hospitals in CA are particularly bad. You can't even find a place to park at Loma Linda.
Boston / New England, much better. Of course health care in the east is better anyway.
Prescott, AZ, is a gem! Clean, smells good...
The VA situation depends upon the aggressiveness of your congressional delegation. Some don't care at all (Barbara Boxer for example) and there is a shortage of everything Veteran. They vote depending on who is paying them. Who is paying them for us? Nobody!
VOTE, my brothers!!!!
On the VA healthcare system, it depends upon where you are. The hospitals in CA are particularly bad. You can't even find a place to park at Loma Linda.
Boston / New England, much better. Of course health care in the east is better anyway.
Prescott, AZ, is a gem! Clean, smells good...
The VA situation depends upon the aggressiveness of your congressional delegation. Some don't care at all (Barbara Boxer for example) and there is a shortage of everything Veteran. They vote depending on who is paying them. Who is paying them for us? Nobody!
VOTE, my brothers!!!!
3
This, sadly, is the price of war. This war was the longest in our history and those men are paying the price. Multiple deployments, modern bombs and the ability to get the injured ( who would have, in early wars died from the ghastly wounds ) out quickly and home have created a rich and fertile medium for the decision to commit suicide to flourish. The VA is a failure to these men and is ill equipped to deal with the depths of their despair and trauma. Time to regroup and focus efforts on immediate intervention with no delays or bureaucratic red tape....this is a crisis. No one else need die.
The problem with a therapy that requires revisiting a traumatic event is the assumption that there is a lesson that needs to be completed before the memory can be outlived. What these soldiers experience is absolutely senseless in any ordinary frame of reference. They have been taught to kill and repeatedly indoctrinated with the notion that there is a higher purpose being served, that there is such a thing as a friend and an enemy, and they must kill the enemy. When they are finally free of the strictures placed on them by the military and the exigencies of survival in combat, their training merely reasserts itself with the only enemy at hand. No one who has not been there can pretend to know what it is like. I have not and do not, but I do know that we must stop asking people to compartmentalize their lives in the service of some "higher purpose". The highest purpose is caring for each other.
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I think youve hit the nail on the head. PTSD treatment starts with the assumption that there was a wrong done to the individual, and that the individual, despite this wrong, can recover. Unfortunately, in our overly militaristic culture the traumas our soldiers experienced occurred in the context of actions that were considered just, and continue to be considered just, but that were really unjust. Until this is addressed, I dont think any type of therapy will be effective.
You need to do some research. The reason for that type of therapy is NOT to learn a lesson, it's to recalibrate the event into a normal memory. Traumatic events don't file themselves into normal memory. They are more like splinters in the psyche than a memory. By repeating the event in a safe setting one can hopefully begin to extract the splinter and turn it into a file in the memory. That is what it's about.
So Fred, once it's in the "normal memory' as you say, what then? What about processing your feelings once you are prepared to? First PTSD treatment. Which is a technique, not a full fledged therapy. But then you've got a long way to go after that. Treatment for PTSD is not the end all and be all of treatment. It is very naive to think so. If it were that easy, we wouldnt have the problem in the first place.
As a Vietnam era veteran I can tell you this isn't a new trend.
I receive my healthcare from the VA.
It has been that way for decades and with the influx of so many wounded warriors the system is breaking down at an alarming rate.
I receive my healthcare from the VA.
It has been that way for decades and with the influx of so many wounded warriors the system is breaking down at an alarming rate.
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This article illustrates the enormous gulf between civilians and combat vets. This problem was on view during the GOP debate last week. Most of them seemed so willing to double-down on our losing Middle Eastern bet; most depressing is how little they seemed to get the true cost of foreign adventuring and how little they seem to remember about the lessons of Vietnam.
I was a staff officer with 1/7 in 1967-8 so it particularly saddens me many Presidential aspirants are so willing to toss young men and women into another bootless errand. The world has changed, it is not 1941.
I was a staff officer with 1/7 in 1967-8 so it particularly saddens me many Presidential aspirants are so willing to toss young men and women into another bootless errand. The world has changed, it is not 1941.
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This story should be read aloud on the floor of both Houses. Heartrending, eyeopening for those outside the service and a call, a continued call. to stand up in all ways for returning Vets. Therapy by those that have served and are now in professional practice should be fully paid for by our government. These men and women must be afforded the best care. Can the system be fixed. Not easily. Pols talk, do little, do it too slowly. If you know a returning Vet pay attention, find nearby resources, help set up a support network. How can we, all of us, not push for greater attention to this.
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It seems like part of the healing process might be well served by having a national memorial that spoke to the horrors of war. Many that I have seen seem to address the weighty, strong, and noble duty that veterans carry out. But I haven't really seen any that acknowledge the mental and physical transformation that veterans undergo, that speak directly to that. Perhaps it might be therapeutic to have a place where people can go to take in visually what it seems like many veterans are unable to put into words. The emotions coming home from war seem too big and complex to put into words anyway, and that's what art excels at, putting many different and complicated things into one visual (or aural) experience. Understanding that our government might not want to memorialize something in this "negative" way, I rather think the government owes it to veterans, who asked them to carry out war, especially with the increasing acknowledgment of the huge emotional toll that war often carries. The leaders who made the decision to send troops into battle can help lift up this rock and shine a light on the dark parts of these people who give the ultimate sacrifice, who are both the people who died and those who come back permanently changed.
I am a VA physician who treats cancer. I am 100% proud of the work that I and my team do every day. Don't lump the entire VA together. There are 144 hospitals and the care varies JUST as much as it does in the private sector only the rest of America doesn't hear about it. I can also tell you that more than 50% of the patients at our facility and 90% of my patients would rather come to us than some of the the private hospitals that are near them.
Set up for failure- How about PTSD PREVENTION? One of the ways to fight cancer is to stop smoking. To avoid PTSD, you have to stop going to war! Since war seems to be inevitable (historically happening with every generation without fail) I agree that limiting soldiers experience to war to no more than 1 tour of duty in a combat zone sounds like it might help as mentioned earlier. It may just be possible that we will never be able to "fix" the problems of these unfortunate soldiers in time to save them. Part of the solution is to not put them in that position again.
If there was an EASY answer for treating PTSD, I think we would have found it by now but we must keep trying. For now, we only have 4 things: 1) talk therapy 2) medications 3) prevention 4) awareness
This article helps with awareness though I continue to be frustrated with how these things end up hurting the morale of the people who work at the VA.
Until we invent the machine that can erase memories, we're going to have problems with PTSD.
Set up for failure- How about PTSD PREVENTION? One of the ways to fight cancer is to stop smoking. To avoid PTSD, you have to stop going to war! Since war seems to be inevitable (historically happening with every generation without fail) I agree that limiting soldiers experience to war to no more than 1 tour of duty in a combat zone sounds like it might help as mentioned earlier. It may just be possible that we will never be able to "fix" the problems of these unfortunate soldiers in time to save them. Part of the solution is to not put them in that position again.
If there was an EASY answer for treating PTSD, I think we would have found it by now but we must keep trying. For now, we only have 4 things: 1) talk therapy 2) medications 3) prevention 4) awareness
This article helps with awareness though I continue to be frustrated with how these things end up hurting the morale of the people who work at the VA.
Until we invent the machine that can erase memories, we're going to have problems with PTSD.
I am a sister of a man who died while in the Navy in '68. He was 23. I have frequent dreams that he is still alive but can't come back to his first life, and that he won't talk about what happened. In real life my mother's life lost meaning, and I have both philosophical and emotional doubts about the value of having a life- major focus since I was 13. My brother is my hero, he exists in my heart with streamers, confetti, and riches laid before him by all the kings and queens of the world. If he had come back and struggled to pay bills, get medical care, relate to a petty neighborhood, have clueless employers, who knows how his life may have played out. Either we all share the life these soldiers experience and serve along side them, or none of us do. How do we mend the gaps when we don't share their pain or take it from their shoulders?
This is truly an American tragedy and our troops need our support. CarePossible is a foundation that offers free, confidential care for military and their families affected by PTSD, depression, addiction, etc. Help is available at www.carepossible.org.
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It is truly sad to see how America's self serving Government has treated Veteran Heroes . People of America better start taking a closer look at who they vote for!
Reality check we must ty these people every day for the sacfrice they made so world can be better place . Its when good people stand idle an allow evil to flourish makes harder for every one . This lesson has been learned over an over till we get right. Like trying to reinvent wheel but these people cant be made whole agun . 200 Years from now world wil be better place an are children children will look back an know we gave them better world to live in
How sis they made the world a better place ? By killing 1.5 million Iraqis?
We—politicians, the military, society—have to realize that taking care of our veterans is part of the cost of war. If it costs more than the actual fighting, so be it—it should be part of the cost-benefit analysis before committing to war.
The abrupt and extreme transition from the camaraderie, structure, and intensity of military life to civilian life must be incredibly hard, even for those who didn't experience direct combat. For those who did…it just seems cruel.
Maybe the transition should be slower and more thoughtful. Perhaps units should remain together for several months winding down, training replacements, preparing for civilian life. Rather than leaving veterans to their own devices, maybe the military should play a more active role—bringing former units together twice a year, tracking and assisting with mental health, employment, education, etc. For Dr. Kudler to say monitoring of combat units over time is "not our mission" is a disgrace.
Would this be expensive? Yes. But these are actual humans—our neighbors, family, fellow citizens—who have endured inhuman things on our behalf. Treating them humanely has got to be included in weighing the cost of going to war.
The abrupt and extreme transition from the camaraderie, structure, and intensity of military life to civilian life must be incredibly hard, even for those who didn't experience direct combat. For those who did…it just seems cruel.
Maybe the transition should be slower and more thoughtful. Perhaps units should remain together for several months winding down, training replacements, preparing for civilian life. Rather than leaving veterans to their own devices, maybe the military should play a more active role—bringing former units together twice a year, tracking and assisting with mental health, employment, education, etc. For Dr. Kudler to say monitoring of combat units over time is "not our mission" is a disgrace.
Would this be expensive? Yes. But these are actual humans—our neighbors, family, fellow citizens—who have endured inhuman things on our behalf. Treating them humanely has got to be included in weighing the cost of going to war.
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Very thoughtful and direct assessment which if instrumented would surely benefit.
If serving the USG military/foreign policy establishment has made these guys unhappy, for whatever reason, before they commit suicide they ought to devote themselves to dissuading other young men and boys not to follow in their footsteps and avoid the recruiters.
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Tricare or Medicare for life for all veterans who have been sent into war. They should not have to pay a dime to go to any doctor or any hospital 24/7. That's the least we can do. All meds and counseling should be free and not a burden to them or their families. Then stop sending our troops to war's we can never win. Elections have consequences. Pay attention to what the presidential candidates say they will do to our military. It's frightening.
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If veterans are killing themselves because they do not go to treatment, why not mandate treatment for everyone at the end of a soldier's tour? Why not have the soldiers spend an additional few months in serious treatment for the PTSD that they all have to some degree? And it goes without saying that this treatment should take place in locations that are decent and show the soldiers the respect they are due.
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I have PTSD, and I have been through years of failed treatments that actually made me feel more suicidal until finally finding in the past year a social worker who specializes in trauma, and I've felt so much better--so much more peace and hopefulness in my life. I found her through attending structured group therapy at a local trauma center. Whereas a prior psychiatrist didn't treat the trauma at all, and then a VA-trained psychologist subjected me to Prolonged Exposure therapy, which inflicted terrible harm on my brain and life (and when I responded by getting way worse, she blamed me for "not taking responsibility" for my problems), the social worker is trained in EMDR. But I think most importantly, I've always known that trauma has a social context--that the problem is not just with me, it's with the fact that what happened to me was horribly wrong--and I needed someone who shared that view. And I needed to be with others surviving trauma, in the group, to really feel like a strong survivor and not some sort of seriously disturbed person. Working with trauma is a matter of social justice. The Vietnam veterans who formed rap groups in the 70s and fought to get PTSD listed in the DSM understood this. War, like all forms of violence--rape, child abuse, assault--is wrong. These brave veterans, survivors of war, testify to the horrors of war every day with the suffering they continue to bear from it. Their suffering makes sense given what they went through.
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This gets to the heart of what's often missing in mental health treatment. It's not 'what's wrong with you,' as an isolated individual, it's 'what happened,' and mutual recognition of what happened, and what this means for all of us.
Sounds like you've read Trauma and Recovery, by Judith Herman. If you haven't i believe you'd find it useful. Also, please consider investigating MDMA, psilocybin or Ayahuasca for the personal and emotional healing. The social component is part of it, but depending on the individual, it may not be enough.
Reading about these Warriors was so very painful for me...
In Colorado, I currently work with Iraqi and Afghani hardened combat veterans struggling to return to who they once were in spirit.
I am a Green Beret who experienced the horrible traumas of war that these combatants have participated in and I understand how necessary it is to reach out to these men.
The Combatants have earned the right to be provided with the time and space to heal themselves so perhaps they can tell the world what it is that drives us all to murder each other.
The cowardly, sub-human, chicken hawks who squawk loudly yet shirk from ever putting their boots on the ground should be shamed for the rest of their lives.
Read 'Soldier's Heart: An Inquiry of War' and watch this nationally acclaimed short video (Vimeo: https://vimeo.com/122663858)
Keep hope men. Return to being in Nature and find a teacher, who will help you discover the nature of your mind....the deeper mind, where the Soul finds it's origins.
Be well continue to support each other.
In Colorado, I currently work with Iraqi and Afghani hardened combat veterans struggling to return to who they once were in spirit.
I am a Green Beret who experienced the horrible traumas of war that these combatants have participated in and I understand how necessary it is to reach out to these men.
The Combatants have earned the right to be provided with the time and space to heal themselves so perhaps they can tell the world what it is that drives us all to murder each other.
The cowardly, sub-human, chicken hawks who squawk loudly yet shirk from ever putting their boots on the ground should be shamed for the rest of their lives.
Read 'Soldier's Heart: An Inquiry of War' and watch this nationally acclaimed short video (Vimeo: https://vimeo.com/122663858)
Keep hope men. Return to being in Nature and find a teacher, who will help you discover the nature of your mind....the deeper mind, where the Soul finds it's origins.
Be well continue to support each other.
When will the United States resign as the "World's Police Force" so this tragedy will not continue?
For my entire adult life (I'm 73), our leaders have used whatever excuse or cause to place our young men & woman in harms way.
Why? For what? Don't tell me it was for the "Cause of Peace", please.
A war that we had to declare and defend our country was valid - WWII.
Will our leaders ever stop the madness?
For my entire adult life (I'm 73), our leaders have used whatever excuse or cause to place our young men & woman in harms way.
Why? For what? Don't tell me it was for the "Cause of Peace", please.
A war that we had to declare and defend our country was valid - WWII.
Will our leaders ever stop the madness?
I’m a generalist therapist, not a PTSD “specialist,” at a counseling center. I’ve worked with a few young veterans with marital, anger and identity issues. One man’s existential grievance shook me: “We told ourselves we weren’t going to survive this.” Nearing the tour’s end, “I realized I probably would make it. But suddenly it occurred that it wouldn’t matter if I did – you’re gonna die anyway. I realized that no matter what I reached in life, I’ll fade into nothingness.” I’ve also worked with several adolescents, usually alienated from family, uneasy in life, who intended to become soldiers. Casual theory is: I wonder if these young men have “meaning” problems from early on, and that war fills this bleak emptiness with horror.
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It is a shame what the American war machine and most of the rest of the country has done to these young men, sending them off to brutalize and be brutalize in a foreign land. Lay off the VA. I was working at a VA when these wars began. Many in the VA are veterans and all who worked with vets knew the perils of war. They better than anyone knew what America was sending these men off to. While the rest of America was pounding its chest and lusting for war, many at the VA were saddened and fearful. They knew they and our soldiers were to carry the burden for other's lust for glory and revenge. And now the same people are just aching to send more young Americans off to Iran. THEY are the problem. I'm so mad I could spit.
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So tragic, and yet so vital that we talk about this reality.
As a mental health professional, I must point out that there are several gold standard evidence-based treatments. EMDR therapy (top level approval by the World Health Organization, DOD and VA) is one that can reduce the impact of trauma effectively. In this therapy, a person is fully in control of the pace as they address traumatic memories. There are higher success rates and lower drop-out rates than other treatments. http://www.emdria.org/?page=CombatTrauma. The unique mechanisms of EMDR are explained in The Wounds Within, a 2015 book about a suicide from the early years of these recent wars and the lessons we are still trying to learn.
Increasingly, VA's/Vet Centers and active duty bases have EMDR trained clinicians and there are well trained community-based clinicians across the country who welcome veterans that seek help outside of the system. The Soldier Center in Clarksville, TN, founded and headed by Vietnam-era Bronze Star recipient and psychologist E.C. Hurley treats soldiers from around the country with EMDR therapy. The hardest step is for the veteran to seek the help, especially when previous attempts to get help have failed.
As a mental health professional, I must point out that there are several gold standard evidence-based treatments. EMDR therapy (top level approval by the World Health Organization, DOD and VA) is one that can reduce the impact of trauma effectively. In this therapy, a person is fully in control of the pace as they address traumatic memories. There are higher success rates and lower drop-out rates than other treatments. http://www.emdria.org/?page=CombatTrauma. The unique mechanisms of EMDR are explained in The Wounds Within, a 2015 book about a suicide from the early years of these recent wars and the lessons we are still trying to learn.
Increasingly, VA's/Vet Centers and active duty bases have EMDR trained clinicians and there are well trained community-based clinicians across the country who welcome veterans that seek help outside of the system. The Soldier Center in Clarksville, TN, founded and headed by Vietnam-era Bronze Star recipient and psychologist E.C. Hurley treats soldiers from around the country with EMDR therapy. The hardest step is for the veteran to seek the help, especially when previous attempts to get help have failed.
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An old friend of mine had a brother who served in Iraq in 2005 . He was a career soldier, perhaps 40 years old. He was gone for about a year and had a leadership position, mostly in combat areas. Upon his return, his family had a nice party for him and all seemed well. Later that night, when all were sleeping, he simply woke up, went to his porch, laid down on a pillow and shot himself. No explanation, no note, nothing. His death caused me to reexamine not only the life of an everyday soldier, but the purpose of military service and military careers. Not for my sons, no thanks.
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This story does an injustice to both the soldiers and the taxpayer. A kid who shoots himself while drunk after having had extensive training in gunplay is not a victim of "war" he's a victim of the character that led him to wish to go practice war, and drug abuse. The tone of this piece, which presumes that battle in some hard spot causes suicide is an insult to every soldier, draft or enlistee, who has fought and go on to a normal healthy life. It is also an insult to the taxpayer, who should be held responsible in retrospect for the the wrongheadedness of the particular war, which in this case was egregious, but not certain enlistees flaking out and harming themselves.
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". . . he's a victim of the character that led him to wish to go practice war. . . ." -- I believe this is very true. There is a character of injury and fault -- though at root not the young man's fault -- beneath many or most of the motivations to take up arms, submerge oneself in an adversarial-hostile cause, fight an "enemy." All the PTSD therapy in the world will be significantly effete if it doesn't address this history.
Our veterans deserve better. If they can give the best health care to the illegal invaders coming into this country. They can do more, very much more for our veterans. There needs to be a non-stop letter writing, email and phone of our so called representatives until something changes and our veteran get the help they deserve, with caring professionals instead of someone that is going to tell them to just get over it.
Instead of trying to cram veterans through the parallel VA system, why not pay their insurance premiums so they can participate in the private system?
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Because the mental health system in the United States is far worse than the VA's and could not possibly cope with workload.
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It seems to me almost criminal, and objectively negligent, that the army is not offering ketamine treatment to suicidal veterans. Its efficacy as a rapid-acting anti-depressant and treatment for PTSD has been made clear in multiple studies. The only hitch is that big pharma can't make money off of ketamine in its current form. It is safe and readily available. It is used safely in hospitals (as an anesthetic) daily in this country and around the world. It saved the life of someone close to me. It could be saving lives among this veteran community. Right now. I simply don't understand the VA. Those with treatment resistant depression and PTSD need to demand this drug. There are no side effects. While the effect can be short-term, that offers enough of a window if someone is going to end his life.
This study of ketamine for PTSD is even army funded: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/823760#vp_2.
http://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2015-ketamine-depression-treatment/
This study of ketamine for PTSD is even army funded: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/823760#vp_2.
http://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2015-ketamine-depression-treatment/
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Very promising. Thanks for posting. I hope additional studies with adequate human subject research protection are performed and the results dissemniated. Obviously, if this were suddenly offered to everybody without such research, and then 1% of the people treated ended up having adverse side effects like heart attacks, the NYT would be publishing an article about how inept the VA was at protecting veterans from experimental drugs.
I suggest we ask our elected officials and those running for office the names of at-risk veterans in their district or state and the results of their attempts at assisting individuals to get the healthcare they deserve. Ask them to describe veterans risks, VA issues, and what they have been doing or will do. Judge their answers, confirmed actions, voting records, and their results and vote accordingly.
The military is concerned primarily with getting young men to enlist, and getting them to fight where and when ordered, and not with the aftermath. It seems to me that there isn't the mix of adults that was present in other wars: it was always mostly the young, but there were different attitudes, and some who were more resistant to indoctrination. These Marines are not in any way a cross section of society anymore. And they first convinced they are special; then treated as if they were expendable.
Repeated deployment seems to be THE major stressor; the redeployment of men who have been injured back to the scene of their injuries is deplorable. Multiple deployments are insane: there should be a huge outcry against this from civilians -- but most of us are so removed that we don't pay attention. I have also noticed that the coverage of day to day fighting in is not the shocking reveal that we had back in Vietnam. Why? Trump gets pictures, video and headlines: what about the on site coverage on the ground now?
There will always be trauma in war experiences, but there is traumatic exposure going on here that is the direct result of military decisions to keep using a limited force of volunteers over and over in a gruesome theater of operations. The VA has challenges to provide outreach and care; but it cannot clean up all the damage done by having military brass -and out Congress - exploit troops to the maximum, until they can't give anymore.
Repeated deployment seems to be THE major stressor; the redeployment of men who have been injured back to the scene of their injuries is deplorable. Multiple deployments are insane: there should be a huge outcry against this from civilians -- but most of us are so removed that we don't pay attention. I have also noticed that the coverage of day to day fighting in is not the shocking reveal that we had back in Vietnam. Why? Trump gets pictures, video and headlines: what about the on site coverage on the ground now?
There will always be trauma in war experiences, but there is traumatic exposure going on here that is the direct result of military decisions to keep using a limited force of volunteers over and over in a gruesome theater of operations. The VA has challenges to provide outreach and care; but it cannot clean up all the damage done by having military brass -and out Congress - exploit troops to the maximum, until they can't give anymore.
5
A part of the complication that is not getting talked about is that the shortage of trained psychologists is exacerbated by laws prohibiting the VA from hiring any psychologist who did not have an APA-accredited internship during their pre-doctoral training. That internship system has been massively oversubscribed for going on two decades now, with many terrific clinicians opting not even to bother with the expensive process of applying, and many others applying but being frozen out. There is zero evidence to support the idea that these internships result in any better care, and it's clear that the restriction of the labor force results in less access to care.
The article also points to the need to broaden our ideas about effective treatment. Although short term exposure therapies can work for some people for some kinds of trauma, the research supporting them is not anywhere near as strong as their proponents might claim. We need a broad range of therapeutic options, so that skilled clinicians can do our jobs, matching the intervention to the individual.
The article also points to the need to broaden our ideas about effective treatment. Although short term exposure therapies can work for some people for some kinds of trauma, the research supporting them is not anywhere near as strong as their proponents might claim. We need a broad range of therapeutic options, so that skilled clinicians can do our jobs, matching the intervention to the individual.
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The last thing we need are poorly trained psychologists using God knows what "therapies" to treat our vets. Would we want physicians using treatments with no evidence of effectiveness? If the internship isn't judged to be of good quality I imagine there is are good reasons the internship can't gain accreditation. Moreover, if a psychologist in training seeks out an internship that doesn't have accreditation or is unable to gain entrance into an accredited internship that speaks volumes.
Having served downrange 8 times to include Iraq and Afghanistan..a couple of comments.
The suicide challenge for returning veterans is horrific and a poor testimonial to the military's effort to identify those with potential problems, post deployment.
The Marines seem to train their troopers in such a way that any perceive weakness is against the Marine code or culture. To that point, so often it might seem to some that the Marines indoctrinate their troopers to the point "they can stop a 7.62".
When troopers return home and often discharge, they drift into a situation where there is no opportunity to exceed. Many feel their two or three years in uniform will give them a special place in society...and they should, but up to a point. Remembering, the post 9/11 GI bill is excellent and provides up to 2000 dollars per month in educational assistance.
But, the first step should be during the discharge-out processing time while the trooper is in uniform...to communicate the challenges after discharge and the support systems available..and those should be within the Marine Corp. Frame of reference or being able to relate to the Soldier or Marine is extremely important, otherwise the individual will discount any typeof verbal support.
And lastly, during WWII or Soldiers and Marines were gone for the duration of the war...many over 4 years with time after time storming beaches or jumping into combat zones...month after month..year after year.
The suicide challenge for returning veterans is horrific and a poor testimonial to the military's effort to identify those with potential problems, post deployment.
The Marines seem to train their troopers in such a way that any perceive weakness is against the Marine code or culture. To that point, so often it might seem to some that the Marines indoctrinate their troopers to the point "they can stop a 7.62".
When troopers return home and often discharge, they drift into a situation where there is no opportunity to exceed. Many feel their two or three years in uniform will give them a special place in society...and they should, but up to a point. Remembering, the post 9/11 GI bill is excellent and provides up to 2000 dollars per month in educational assistance.
But, the first step should be during the discharge-out processing time while the trooper is in uniform...to communicate the challenges after discharge and the support systems available..and those should be within the Marine Corp. Frame of reference or being able to relate to the Soldier or Marine is extremely important, otherwise the individual will discount any typeof verbal support.
And lastly, during WWII or Soldiers and Marines were gone for the duration of the war...many over 4 years with time after time storming beaches or jumping into combat zones...month after month..year after year.
This article is brilliant, and very compelling. The most jarring, even surreal exposition: A young female "therapist" at the VA tells the distraught Marine suffering from PTSD that he has to "get over" losing his friends in combat, like "a bad breakup with a girl". To me, this one anecdote sums up the Mt. Everest of ineptitude, bureaucracy, cluelessness, indifference publicly disguised as concern, and overarching failure of our government (Congress, the Pentagon, the VA) in effectively dealing with the myriad adjustment problems of returning combat vets, let alone their PTSD, their abysmal civilian circumstances (in many cases) and their suicides. This has been going on for a very long time; who and what will change it? When?
3
The cost of war! No the cost of stupid leaders putting the services all of them up front when they are too stupid to figure out a solution that does not risk someone else s life other than their family or them selves.
What a joke Fighting Suicide: Marines Try “If you kill yourself from now on, it won’t just be a warning or a negative counseling, but an Article 134 per the Uniform Code of Military Justice,” said Sergeant Mark Davis, Camp Lejeune. “And if that doesn’t work, we may have to move to an automatic administrative separation, based on a refusal to train, come to work, or breathe.” The Marines hope the program will slash suicides in half by the end of the year.
If we were to change the laws to send any congressman or senator and all their family's off to war FIRST this stupidity would end as soon as the law when into force. I say this any veteran of a war should be given peer counseling by members of the units and people who faced the same experiences, counseling free for life any time they need it without bureaucratic intervention to save money for the agency or people giving the support. NO CHANGES NO CHANCE OF THIS BEING CHANGED IN THE FUTURE. The ASININE move by the Marine corps chain of command has people laughing at them as stupid. i saw combat in Vietnam and at the expense of my generation by a bunch of lying thieving cheating senators and congressmen of our country who were afraid of fighting the war them selves or having their familys torn apart by war.
What a joke Fighting Suicide: Marines Try “If you kill yourself from now on, it won’t just be a warning or a negative counseling, but an Article 134 per the Uniform Code of Military Justice,” said Sergeant Mark Davis, Camp Lejeune. “And if that doesn’t work, we may have to move to an automatic administrative separation, based on a refusal to train, come to work, or breathe.” The Marines hope the program will slash suicides in half by the end of the year.
If we were to change the laws to send any congressman or senator and all their family's off to war FIRST this stupidity would end as soon as the law when into force. I say this any veteran of a war should be given peer counseling by members of the units and people who faced the same experiences, counseling free for life any time they need it without bureaucratic intervention to save money for the agency or people giving the support. NO CHANGES NO CHANCE OF THIS BEING CHANGED IN THE FUTURE. The ASININE move by the Marine corps chain of command has people laughing at them as stupid. i saw combat in Vietnam and at the expense of my generation by a bunch of lying thieving cheating senators and congressmen of our country who were afraid of fighting the war them selves or having their familys torn apart by war.
1
This article and the searing sorrow on the faces in the images haunted me into the wee hours last night and is in the forefront of my thoughts on awakening.
Leaving aside the politics of war for the moment, we must find our way to helping our combat veterans as they return. Whether in some ideas offered here, particularly the idea of a re-entry camp to guide, identify the broken, to counsel, to help mentally, physically, spiritually, financially, or EMDR therapy, or meditation, whatever needs doing should be done.
As for the men in this group featured, I wish I could comfort them in their despair. I have no words except these- that in this despair lies their humanity. To see their attempts to reclaim that humanity by helping each other is, for me, to witness one of their most heroic acts. Godspeed.
Leaving aside the politics of war for the moment, we must find our way to helping our combat veterans as they return. Whether in some ideas offered here, particularly the idea of a re-entry camp to guide, identify the broken, to counsel, to help mentally, physically, spiritually, financially, or EMDR therapy, or meditation, whatever needs doing should be done.
As for the men in this group featured, I wish I could comfort them in their despair. I have no words except these- that in this despair lies their humanity. To see their attempts to reclaim that humanity by helping each other is, for me, to witness one of their most heroic acts. Godspeed.
We, our government, should be doing all things possible to help the soldiers, period.
1
It is deplorable that the Dept of Veterans Affairs doesn't monitor suicide rates by regiment or battalion. It shouldn't take a news article like this for military officials to be aware of battalions that are suffering disproportionately.
At many televised sporting events, tributes for our troops are delivered by public address announcers. Fans are asked to stand and applaud as an animated image of the American flag appears on a tel-screen. But our veterans need much more than a round of applause. They need a military, a health care system and a public that truly care about them after they return home -- and demonstrate that caring in tangible ways to address PTSD. Standing and clapping may make the public feel good for 15 seconds, but it's a hollow gesture unless we do more to save these vets (and their families) from suicide.
At many televised sporting events, tributes for our troops are delivered by public address announcers. Fans are asked to stand and applaud as an animated image of the American flag appears on a tel-screen. But our veterans need much more than a round of applause. They need a military, a health care system and a public that truly care about them after they return home -- and demonstrate that caring in tangible ways to address PTSD. Standing and clapping may make the public feel good for 15 seconds, but it's a hollow gesture unless we do more to save these vets (and their families) from suicide.
1
First - throughout the training of soldiers there needs to be a more rounded psychologically healthy approach. The idea that drill sergeants screaming abuse at you is healthy training is just insane. The entire desensitizing process needs to be rethought.
Second- during occupation of civilian areas and killing of civilian or irregular forces the soldiers should be rotated to secure military areas after such incidents and their exposure to extreme violence limited by shorter and less deployments.
Finally, enough of the "Support the Troops" magnet patriotism that got us here. The unquestioning and clueless public bears the ultimate responsibility and the shame.
Second- during occupation of civilian areas and killing of civilian or irregular forces the soldiers should be rotated to secure military areas after such incidents and their exposure to extreme violence limited by shorter and less deployments.
Finally, enough of the "Support the Troops" magnet patriotism that got us here. The unquestioning and clueless public bears the ultimate responsibility and the shame.
1
I get your good intentions but: War light? War = making people dead. There is a reason, usually unstated, that the military wants them very young. Same reason auto insurance for young men costs so much. And then they have to be hardened so that they accept that their lot is to kill or be killed.
I guess we disagree on the hardening part. In WW1 front line troops were frequently rotated out of the tranches and then back every couple of weeks to minimize shell shock. I don't think anyone thought it was "light"
I served in the 15th Infantry Regiment in Korea as a radio scout. I have six months of combat time. I was present for, and survived, the last major attempt by the Chinese to break through us and go on to Seoul. During that fight we lost 2400 men, killed and wounded. I still remember going out of my bunker to pee and looking down at the stacks of bodies. I'm sorry, but you will never forget, at least I haven't and that was over a half century ago. You simply have to develop a life and live past it.
1
Once I've met an ex-soldier who came back from Afghanistan with his gut blown apart. I've met him in a Jacuzzi at the hotel where I could see his scars. As an old man, I have experienced many things in my life but this was by far the most alien encounter that I've ever had.
Another "gut-wrenching" experience I've had in my life was my visit to children's oncology clinics where so many of them are succumbed to death for no reason at all. I wonder if we could ask these solders in suffering to visit the children's clinic and face-to-face encounter these most precious things in life, "among these are, life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness". I hope these experience would help the soldiers like those in this article as it did to me after my meeting with the soldier in Jacuzzi.
Let us not forget that the experience that these soldiers went through in wars is a precious, a precious information that needs to be spread out. So please, let them speak out to the public on forum whether be on TV or radio regularly. I think we have an obligation to do so, even if it means a poor rating.
Another "gut-wrenching" experience I've had in my life was my visit to children's oncology clinics where so many of them are succumbed to death for no reason at all. I wonder if we could ask these solders in suffering to visit the children's clinic and face-to-face encounter these most precious things in life, "among these are, life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness". I hope these experience would help the soldiers like those in this article as it did to me after my meeting with the soldier in Jacuzzi.
Let us not forget that the experience that these soldiers went through in wars is a precious, a precious information that needs to be spread out. So please, let them speak out to the public on forum whether be on TV or radio regularly. I think we have an obligation to do so, even if it means a poor rating.
Is there really any mystery here? Young men and women, often very immature and not experienced in life, still in their teens, join the military, for assorted reasons. In other settings, they might not get parental permission to use the family car! Here they are given weapons and taught to kill...and that it is ok to kill, abuse, destroy lives and homes, villages, animals and people of all ages, if they have a good enough justification. They are in a temporary culture where all they have been taught in childhood..hopefully..is contradicted, and sanctioned. T
They do their best in that counter - culture and then return to the non-military world where they have to live with what they have done and seen. Substance abuse is only one escape, temprary relief at best, needing to be repeated over and over. Depression is no surprise with this enormous burden of confusion, guilt and anger at themselves and others for the barbarity they have witnessed and what they may have done themselves. The supportive comradery of their military life is no longer the same once they are back from battle. They have to live with it all, as individuals who never had the benefit of fully maturing into men and women before facing these enormously difficult challennges. No wonder suicide seems an attractive solution.
They do their best in that counter - culture and then return to the non-military world where they have to live with what they have done and seen. Substance abuse is only one escape, temprary relief at best, needing to be repeated over and over. Depression is no surprise with this enormous burden of confusion, guilt and anger at themselves and others for the barbarity they have witnessed and what they may have done themselves. The supportive comradery of their military life is no longer the same once they are back from battle. They have to live with it all, as individuals who never had the benefit of fully maturing into men and women before facing these enormously difficult challennges. No wonder suicide seems an attractive solution.
3
War is a broken system - it doesn't work and its killing/ maiming our young. There are no noble war causes today, ts about oil, greed, and power and our young ones are dying in these war charades. Its time - Parents, save the next generation. Teach your children not to go to war.
3
Institutionalization at the VA has breed a culture where workers often stoop to conveyor-like assembly-line attitude in caring for veterans. No personal care is possible in such an environment. All things done must be 'accounted-for' on the computer where an unseen supervisor oversees each move which creates fear and lack of empathy. Try calling your local VA facility and see for yourself. You get a voicemail at best with the promise of a return call if you're lucky. Most times the callback never occurs. I doubt if anyone actually listens to all the recorded messages of those that call in. Those that are seen are on a regular schedule with visits to their 'primary care provider' every 6-8 months due to the VA's theory about 'preventative care'. If you are in crisis either physically or mentally you generally cannot be seen until your next scheduled visit. The message is clear: 'Don't get sick between scheduled visits'. So if you run into mental chaos you may request a visit to a mental health care professional which can take up to months to get. Only God can help you in today's modern health care system here in America.
This is the kind of solutions you get from a,public so totally divorced from the combat experience.
When neither they or their children have any idea or interest in what MEPS is it's easy to come up with a solution of a mandatory forced labor or relocation camp or temp city for returning combat vets. After all it's not your child in some camp,for months on end after their enlistment is over.
Yep you sign up for 5'years go through training and maybe 2'or 4 combat deployments and when your time is up and you are ready to come home and start civilian life they tell you that you are now going to a relocation camp until you are well..
Make sure you take their weapons away from them first
Not less combat deployments as a country as an answer but mandatory isolation camps when they come back from combat?
A place where one poster said thei could work on important civilian projects with military precision.
Maybe it is time for a draft?
Common sense folks. Try to use it.
When neither they or their children have any idea or interest in what MEPS is it's easy to come up with a solution of a mandatory forced labor or relocation camp or temp city for returning combat vets. After all it's not your child in some camp,for months on end after their enlistment is over.
Yep you sign up for 5'years go through training and maybe 2'or 4 combat deployments and when your time is up and you are ready to come home and start civilian life they tell you that you are now going to a relocation camp until you are well..
Make sure you take their weapons away from them first
Not less combat deployments as a country as an answer but mandatory isolation camps when they come back from combat?
A place where one poster said thei could work on important civilian projects with military precision.
Maybe it is time for a draft?
Common sense folks. Try to use it.
1
An access problem. A wrong fit problem of monthly talk therapy for a highly-and rightly-traumatized group of men that need daily intense intervention. We should consider breaking the treatment model for combat veterans and design something specific for gravely injured men in crisis who crave kinship and understanding from peers. Group trauma therapy led by a veteran. These horrors were acquired as a unit of brothers- this band is a co-hort that needs to heal together. Think of the funds saved by leaving a clearly ineffective model of 1:1 engagement behind and getting one highly trained trauma-informed mental health professional in the same room as these brothers. Your horrors are shared horrors and your strength is shared strength.
2
I don't see how believers in God can escape disillusionment in combat.
2
We now know from MRI evidence that the brain executive centers are still mush until the middle twenties. The Pentagon is a child abuser on a scale far beyond the Catholic Church. No foreign assignment until twenty-five.
1
I cried reading this article and the comments. I'm also angry. Our country's willful neglect of its servicemen and women is criminal and sinful, nothing less.
The word "sacrifice" is thrown around so casually and mindlessly by politicians who pay lip service to veterans. This article vividly shines a light on how gut-wrenching the staggering debt this country owes them: the sacrifice of sound mind, peace, self-worth, sense of purpose, hope, physical health, emotional health.
At a minimum, our veterans are entitled to the same level of healthcare our Congressmen and women receive, if not higher. There should also be higher education assistance, career counseling, vocational training...the works. And for free. It's the right thing to do.
"...the moral test of government is how that government treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the elderly; those who are in the shadows of life; the sick, the needy and the handicapped. "
~Last Speech of Hubert H. Humphrey
The word "sacrifice" is thrown around so casually and mindlessly by politicians who pay lip service to veterans. This article vividly shines a light on how gut-wrenching the staggering debt this country owes them: the sacrifice of sound mind, peace, self-worth, sense of purpose, hope, physical health, emotional health.
At a minimum, our veterans are entitled to the same level of healthcare our Congressmen and women receive, if not higher. There should also be higher education assistance, career counseling, vocational training...the works. And for free. It's the right thing to do.
"...the moral test of government is how that government treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the elderly; those who are in the shadows of life; the sick, the needy and the handicapped. "
~Last Speech of Hubert H. Humphrey
1
The thing is that for those who have had an action life, getting used to the routine of "normal" existence, surrounded by dull and shallow civilians, is pretty difficult.
We go from buddy system to the "everyone for self"; from deep selflessness to the extreme selfishness that our society promotes.
I'm not surprised that this happens. Fact is the person who has lived intensely lives with death in the mind all the time.
The men and women who experienced this type of hard action, once on their own, in civilian life, have to create their own preservation mechanisms. That is how I see it. Girlfriends, boyfriends, relatives, can not replace or be their comrades. That intense life is over. Accept it. One has to find a philosophy, a cause to live for. The mechanism is inside us.
Don't bother with psychiatrists.
We go from buddy system to the "everyone for self"; from deep selflessness to the extreme selfishness that our society promotes.
I'm not surprised that this happens. Fact is the person who has lived intensely lives with death in the mind all the time.
The men and women who experienced this type of hard action, once on their own, in civilian life, have to create their own preservation mechanisms. That is how I see it. Girlfriends, boyfriends, relatives, can not replace or be their comrades. That intense life is over. Accept it. One has to find a philosophy, a cause to live for. The mechanism is inside us.
Don't bother with psychiatrists.
2
This story breaks my heart. All this suffering and continued loss. As I read it, I keep thinking where would we be if the NYTimes didn't point out this important, lasting suffering of vets so poignantly. Thank you.
The crux of the problem is that we no longer have a draft. The draft was the great leveler of society's classses. I had a lottery number during Vietnam; it was a high number so I was lucky. But the draft cut across social classes and income levels. Rich and poor, black and white, the lottery didn't discriminate. Sure, the Bill Clinton and the George W. Bush's found ways to avoid the draft, but for most of us, the system worked. With the Iraq and Afghan wars, the wealthy and privileged escape, and it's our "volunteer" army which does the fighting, so much of our society goes untouched by its tragedy and life in the states goes on as normal. Our system today, reminds me of how the wealthy could pay others during the Civil War to take their place on the battlefield. If thousands of sons of the wealthy had to serve in Iraq and Afghanistan, and they came home in boxes, with PTSD, suicidal or with traumatic brain injuries, I bet there would be a lot more pressure and money to reform the broken VA system. I also bet the wars either wouldn't have occurred or would have been very short-lived. The political pressure from the "haves" in our society whose children had suffered in these wars would have brought these conflicts to a halt.
The crux of the problem is that we no longer have a draft. The draft was the great leveler of society's classses. I had a lottery number during Vietnam; it was a high number so I was lucky. But the draft cut across social classes and income levels. Rich and poor, black and white, the lottery didn't discriminate. Sure, the Bill Clinton and the George W. Bush's found ways to avoid the draft, but for most of us, the system worked. With the Iraq and Afghan wars, the wealthy and privileged escape, and it's our "volunteer" army which does the fighting, so much of our society goes untouched by its tragedy and life in the states goes on as normal. Our system today, reminds me of how the wealthy could pay others during the Civil War to take their place on the battlefield. If thousands of sons of the wealthy had to serve in Iraq and Afghanistan, and they came home in boxes, with PTSD, suicidal or with traumatic brain injuries, I bet there would be a lot more pressure and money to reform the broken VA system. I also bet the wars either wouldn't have occurred or would have been very short-lived. The political pressure from the "haves" in our society whose children had suffered in these wars would have brought these conflicts to a halt.
6
No words, just prayers for these people who have given their lives for our country. Thank you.
1
CNN should make amends for the travesty of last week's "debate", with all its unchallenged saber-rattling and contempt for diplomacy, by broadcasting three hours devoted to this platoon, and others, not just from this war, but from Vietnam as well, showing the after-effects of war on young men and women. I'm sure Dave Phillips, David Finkel, and Jon Stewart would be happy to help.
2
Is there any way to ensure that the children / grandchildren of Congress are always eligible to be drafted into any armed conflict? Is there any way to ensure the children of the elite corporate executives, bankers, lobbyist, et al will be represented in the infantry and other combat arms?
I know that Americans will pay a very high price for freedom sometimes, but I don't know how to make sure it's really worth it. Maybe that would help.
I know that Americans will pay a very high price for freedom sometimes, but I don't know how to make sure it's really worth it. Maybe that would help.
3
Ironic this government is committing over 100 million dollars to the state of Iran with the nuclear pact -- Iran, the country most vocal about taking us down, yet we struggle to find adequate funding for the treatment of the very people who gave so much to keep us 'up'. No wonder the people of this country are so exasperated with Washington.
I moved to jacksonville NC. as a Army vet. seeing all the active duty Marines and a boat load of vets. in the area was good for me I felt like if all these guys are making it and have not lost their fing minds so can I.
The way forward if you ask me is to grow up quit drinking raise the kids most likely you have a wife at home act like it.
Let me say my Barracks rats are now private puppy wuppy and pfc doc dog.
Get busy flip some houses or something what ever make a buck save for teh future time will fly a kid who just joined will be retiring and you will say 20 years have passed where did it go.
Guess what that means you are old. congrats. now old age aint for wimps.
You will see what I mean when you get there.
The way forward if you ask me is to grow up quit drinking raise the kids most likely you have a wife at home act like it.
Let me say my Barracks rats are now private puppy wuppy and pfc doc dog.
Get busy flip some houses or something what ever make a buck save for teh future time will fly a kid who just joined will be retiring and you will say 20 years have passed where did it go.
Guess what that means you are old. congrats. now old age aint for wimps.
You will see what I mean when you get there.
Veterans, I honor and salute you. We need to make sure this cycle does not continue! How do we take care of this as soon as possible.. I don't know. We elect politicians that speak of escaping wars. We don't address what is right in front of us. We choose to look the other way. Shame on us for not taking care of our veterans..and keep on sending more young boys and girls abroad to countries that despise us.
The above comment should read...we elect politicians that speak of escalating war...not .."escaping" war!!
I hope that GW Bush, Dick Cheney and the rest of that administration read this and carry it in their heads and hearts, thinking, as the should: "we have done this." That war in Iraq, which left the U.S. troops in Afghanistan abandoned and underequipped, will haunt us and the rest of the world, for centuries to come. And those poor young kids caught in the crossfire of an incompetent administration's barrage of disastrous decisions!
3
During my last trip the USA, while I was in Washington D.C., I listened to news reports regarding the management failure veterans administration and it appears that a year and a half later nothing has been done to improve the health and welfare of our soldiers who are also still on duty overseas.
What does it take to move the failure of congress and the white house?
What else do Americans have to offer besides their lives to receive the attention that they deserve?
People abroad in Europe and elsewhere condemn the USA for its political roles in wars. When will the people around the USA stop and think about their own freedom and how it is given to them?
Send messages to the white house and congress to push them to make a decsion now!
What does it take to move the failure of congress and the white house?
What else do Americans have to offer besides their lives to receive the attention that they deserve?
People abroad in Europe and elsewhere condemn the USA for its political roles in wars. When will the people around the USA stop and think about their own freedom and how it is given to them?
Send messages to the white house and congress to push them to make a decsion now!
I wish Cheney could be forced to read this article. Then possibly he could be shamed enough to stop his cries for endless war. But then again, I suspect it wouldn't change a thing.
3
The idea that we would ask children whose minds are not fully developed to be warriors and not face serious consequences for doing so is, easily, one of the dumbest ideas I have ever heard of.
The solution is simple. Do not go to war unless the nation's life and liberty are at stake. Our children are far too precious to be wasted on the latest politician-in-charge's whims for world domination...
The solution is simple. Do not go to war unless the nation's life and liberty are at stake. Our children are far too precious to be wasted on the latest politician-in-charge's whims for world domination...
1
1st. The actual cost of war is far beyond the price of all the tangible things we associated with it (guns, bullets, helmets etc.). This article, truly points out one of those elements. My point is, those in power who make such decisions, better think it f--k--g though, because the after effects have impacts for generations.
2nd. It's obvious that the US will always be sending troops to harms way. We need to think beyond our current approach to those who serve and need help. We had hospitals treating the wounded and someone providing comfort veteran during the civil. Perhaps to rethink the approach maybe, communities with housing, parks, recreations, where military families can live (no time element). Those who decide to leave and want to swim upstream are allow to do so. Studies can be made, every medical university in the county would be required to support the effort. We have the money, we just don't have the desire to really resolve this issue.
2nd. It's obvious that the US will always be sending troops to harms way. We need to think beyond our current approach to those who serve and need help. We had hospitals treating the wounded and someone providing comfort veteran during the civil. Perhaps to rethink the approach maybe, communities with housing, parks, recreations, where military families can live (no time element). Those who decide to leave and want to swim upstream are allow to do so. Studies can be made, every medical university in the county would be required to support the effort. We have the money, we just don't have the desire to really resolve this issue.
Currently there is significant progress being made in Virtual Reality treatment for PTSS. It's quite an effective treatment, usually consisting of a maximum of 15 sessions.
As to the stigma of PTSS: perhaps the best way to address that (I don't know how it's being treated now) is through education. Educate those who enter boot camp about PTSS, talk about the symptoms and treatments up front. Normalize it, and people will be able to recognize the symptoms if they occur in their fellow soldiers or even themselves. This is a strategy that shows quite promising results in the field of eating disorders.
As to the stigma of PTSS: perhaps the best way to address that (I don't know how it's being treated now) is through education. Educate those who enter boot camp about PTSS, talk about the symptoms and treatments up front. Normalize it, and people will be able to recognize the symptoms if they occur in their fellow soldiers or even themselves. This is a strategy that shows quite promising results in the field of eating disorders.
2
Every American would benefit from reading this article. My father a WWII and Korea vet had his PTSD issues. He did not talk about his experiences in the wars much.
My take away after reading this article is to vote for candidates who will avoid war. Choose wisely when you vote in every election.
My take away after reading this article is to vote for candidates who will avoid war. Choose wisely when you vote in every election.
2
American Veterans of War have received less than adequate care since The Vietnam War. From a climate of differing viewpoints on war in general, when service people come back, to the embarrassment of the VA's lack of funds.
We may not be able to prevent depression when our people come back, we can at LEAST support their emotional & medical needs. Our government needs to give the same courage & loyalty to our veterans as they have given to us. Period!
We may not be able to prevent depression when our people come back, we can at LEAST support their emotional & medical needs. Our government needs to give the same courage & loyalty to our veterans as they have given to us. Period!
Even without wars our troops suffer being stationed in hostile countries and having no opportunity to have a normal life with their family, friends and country. Moltke once said that even wars are won they harm the victor as well as the enemy. Sending our troops for useless phony wars is worst than sending them to jail!
1
A well written and deeply moving article. I am not a vet but my family was riven by alcoholism, suicide and sexual abuse. I recently read a book called War and the Soul by Ed Tick. It is an insightful masterpiece as to the traumatic effects of war on the individual and society. It should be required reading for vets and their families
How can we be failing these soldiers so completely? We owe them more.
3
This is not the first article of this kind, America has a lot of veterans, and they need support. Not only financially, but also psychologically, this is what the country owes them for their dedicated service. The government should not forget about these people.
This article makes reference to the failures of the VA to be able to responds to the needs of the veterans and it may be true after any war or conflict or whatever we call the engagement of our young people in combat.
It may not be possible for the VA to have sufficient Doctor and facilities for such a task and other professional help may not be available.
These veterans need to take advantage of the American Legion and Veterans of Foreign Wars. They can receive moral support and also take advantage of some of the programs that these two organizations offer.
It may not be possible for the VA to have sufficient Doctor and facilities for such a task and other professional help may not be available.
These veterans need to take advantage of the American Legion and Veterans of Foreign Wars. They can receive moral support and also take advantage of some of the programs that these two organizations offer.
A few days or weeks ago, the NYT was full of stories and positive comments about the first women graduating from the Ranger School.
My suggestion would be for all those future officers to spend at least 3 to 6 months in the VA hospitals dealing with those veterans and experience first hand the tragic consequences of PTSD. They would then have a better appreciation of what they are about to do, and hopefully if would give them a better understanding of what to do when giving orders later in their officer careers.
I would advise the students of all School of governments to do the same, so that future politicians can see first hand the consequences of going to war for obscure reasons not directly related to a real and imminent danger to America's beaches or borders.
It is unbelievable that a country that ask so much of its young men and women do not organize a better follow up of these kind of wounds.
My suggestion would be for all those future officers to spend at least 3 to 6 months in the VA hospitals dealing with those veterans and experience first hand the tragic consequences of PTSD. They would then have a better appreciation of what they are about to do, and hopefully if would give them a better understanding of what to do when giving orders later in their officer careers.
I would advise the students of all School of governments to do the same, so that future politicians can see first hand the consequences of going to war for obscure reasons not directly related to a real and imminent danger to America's beaches or borders.
It is unbelievable that a country that ask so much of its young men and women do not organize a better follow up of these kind of wounds.
5
The immediate mission is to help these veterans to find something that will give them some hope.These guys are our sons and brothers and they need our love and support. I would like to rub JEB!'s face in this story and ask him to clarify once more how his brother made us safe. Body bags for GW Bush, his administration and his corporate friends; not for our veterans!
1
Who most profits from Americans who live safely and prosper? Consumer goods corporations of course. If these corporations contributed their fair share of taxes then there would be sufficient money to handsomely reward these veterans and provide better care. As citizens we should stand up and make a deal with all the corporations we buy goods from. We tell them: "We are happy to keep paying our taxes to provide superior training and combat support for our troops. If we do this, can your corporation pay taxes to build and support a superior care system for veterans? Only fair, right?"
This article was crushing, poignant, and extremely well written. Thank you for telling this story. It's important. Earlier this year I had the honor of watching a documentary film called Of Men and War. (menandwar.com) It's a close cousin of this article and illuminates this issue in another, also significant, way.
Congressional chickenhawks willing to put $6 trillion on plastic to send our soldiers off to fight their wars now can't be bothered to fund adequate mental health care for those that served. Remember this come election time, people. In the meantime, are there productive actions that non-military, non-medical members of the public can take to help?
1
My thoughts and prayers go out to my fellow vets.
I'm a Vietnam-era Vet, and for the life of me I can't understand how these kids can do 5,6, up to 8 and 9 deployments, as I've read about in several stories, and books.
In Vietnam, it was 13 months in-country, at the end of which a helicopter plucked you from the fields and you were home within 48 hrs. The remainder of a 2 year draftee's time was spent at a non-combat base.
These kids from the Iraq/Afghanistan theaters of war have endured IED's that turn any given moment into a horror-show of casualties; that hyper-vigilance takes over for these guys seems no surprise. Some soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan complained they never saw the enemy, except in roadside bombs and their destruction. They had to shove that stuff down while they were over there; now they can't get rid of it.
Imagine being haunted, waking and sleeping, by your worst nightmares ever.
War is always a story of irony.
Of initial enthusiasms brought low by savagery.
Why we never seem to learn that war destroys, to a large extent, the victor and the vanquished alike? Who can even say at this point?
All I know is these kids, these young men, are now in pain, a lot of pain, and if we really want to stand by and do right by our veterans, as we oft claim, we'll do more than stammer out a "thank you for your service".
We'll put our money where our mouth is, and do the right thing for treatment and help these guys, and I mean stat.
I'm a Vietnam-era Vet, and for the life of me I can't understand how these kids can do 5,6, up to 8 and 9 deployments, as I've read about in several stories, and books.
In Vietnam, it was 13 months in-country, at the end of which a helicopter plucked you from the fields and you were home within 48 hrs. The remainder of a 2 year draftee's time was spent at a non-combat base.
These kids from the Iraq/Afghanistan theaters of war have endured IED's that turn any given moment into a horror-show of casualties; that hyper-vigilance takes over for these guys seems no surprise. Some soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan complained they never saw the enemy, except in roadside bombs and their destruction. They had to shove that stuff down while they were over there; now they can't get rid of it.
Imagine being haunted, waking and sleeping, by your worst nightmares ever.
War is always a story of irony.
Of initial enthusiasms brought low by savagery.
Why we never seem to learn that war destroys, to a large extent, the victor and the vanquished alike? Who can even say at this point?
All I know is these kids, these young men, are now in pain, a lot of pain, and if we really want to stand by and do right by our veterans, as we oft claim, we'll do more than stammer out a "thank you for your service".
We'll put our money where our mouth is, and do the right thing for treatment and help these guys, and I mean stat.
62
My heart goes out to these brave young men.
Spare a thought for the civilian Afghans who have to continue living there. For generations they have been caught in a war between the Russian, Taliban, US, Pakistan, Iran and god knows who else.
Spare a thought for the civilian Afghans who have to continue living there. For generations they have been caught in a war between the Russian, Taliban, US, Pakistan, Iran and god knows who else.
1
Look into Team Rubicon which is run by soldier alums from my alma mater UW- Madison. They are running a volunteer disaster relief force of veterans, going around the country doing rescue, cleanup and rebuilding. As part of this duty the soldiers focus on positive employment of the warrior, something missing from civilian life, and helping each other recover from PTSD and avoid suicide. Team Rubicon pays expenses and has actual paid jobs open to veterans too. Helping victims of disasters, peer support and using warrior skills as a civilian seems to be a win for all. We got fires out west if anyone is looking!
I understand depression, Ive experienced the almost-overwhelming desire to commit suicide, and I feel terrible for these young soldiers. But I also have to ask: What did they *think* was going to happen when they went to war? The military exists for one reason only: to kill people. Wars may be "justified" or not, but they're still about death and destruction, and that will always carry an enormous psychological burden. Sometimes I wonder if we should raise the age of enlistment to 25, when the frontal cortex is fully developed, and men and women can better think through the true reality of serving in the military.
2
Allowing vets to use a VA "card" to get fully-paid private treatment would be a start. But access to care is only the beginning. Being with each other seems to help. These guys need to feel a sense of belonging and trust. Funding such get-togethers, as well as other "after-care," should be a priority.
Lastly, what strikes me most about this piece is that the young people we send to these wars are often from lower-income backgrounds or jobless geographies such that joining up--even in wartime--seems like a good choice. The poor fight and pay the price; the rich stay home and make money. We must do something so that the burden of war is shared by all. I bet we'd see fewer wars.
Lastly, what strikes me most about this piece is that the young people we send to these wars are often from lower-income backgrounds or jobless geographies such that joining up--even in wartime--seems like a good choice. The poor fight and pay the price; the rich stay home and make money. We must do something so that the burden of war is shared by all. I bet we'd see fewer wars.
2
THERE IS SUCCESSFUL TREATMENT for PTSD!! EMDR therapy is considered a first-line treatment by orgs such as ISTSS (International Soc. for Traumatic Stress Studies), the Amer Psychiatric Assn, the Amer Psychological Assn, the Dept of Veteran Affairs, the Dept of Defense, the Depts of Health in Northern Ireland, UK, Israel, the Netherlands, France, and other countries and organizations. There are 35 randomized controlled (and 20 nonrandomized) studies that have been conducted on EMDR therapy in the treatment of trauma to date.
The World Health Organization published Guidelines for the management of conditions that are specifically related to stress: Trauma-focused CBT and EMDR are the only psychotherapies recommended for children, adolescents and adults with PTSD. “Like CBT with a trauma focus, EMDR aims to reduce subjective distress and strengthen adaptive cognitions related to the traumatic event. Unlike CBT with a trauma focus, EMDR does not involve (a) detailed descriptions of the event, (b) direct challenging of beliefs, (c) extended exposure, or (d) homework." (Geneva, WHO, 2013, p.1)
In TN, The Soldier Center http://www.soldier-center.com offers daily EMDR therapy so vets can COMPLETE their treatment in about a week! Pro bono treatment is available. The director, EC Hurley, is a retired colonel. In EMDR therapy, the drop-out rate is practically nonexistent, compared with Prolonged Exposure or CBT, the two methods most often used at the VA.
The World Health Organization published Guidelines for the management of conditions that are specifically related to stress: Trauma-focused CBT and EMDR are the only psychotherapies recommended for children, adolescents and adults with PTSD. “Like CBT with a trauma focus, EMDR aims to reduce subjective distress and strengthen adaptive cognitions related to the traumatic event. Unlike CBT with a trauma focus, EMDR does not involve (a) detailed descriptions of the event, (b) direct challenging of beliefs, (c) extended exposure, or (d) homework." (Geneva, WHO, 2013, p.1)
In TN, The Soldier Center http://www.soldier-center.com offers daily EMDR therapy so vets can COMPLETE their treatment in about a week! Pro bono treatment is available. The director, EC Hurley, is a retired colonel. In EMDR therapy, the drop-out rate is practically nonexistent, compared with Prolonged Exposure or CBT, the two methods most often used at the VA.
My heart goes out to veterans struggling with PTSD. I'm glad that close-knit groups of veterans are providing often life-saving support for each other.
I recommend the following resources for PTSD treatment -
(1) Article - "Could Ayahuasca Be The Next Medical Marijuana?" - cnn.com The hallucinogenic Ayahausca brew is illegal in the U.S., however, many people, including veterans, are travelling to Peru to participate in Ayahuasca healing rituals. This article reports on benefits and dangers.
(2) Book - "Warrior's Return: Restoring The Soul After War" by Ed Tick
(3) Book - "Getting Past Your Past: ... EMDR Therapy" by Francine Shapiro
(4) YouTube - "Guided Imagery For Soldiers with Balleruth Naparstek" Soldier, Dave, initially hates guided imagery, but gradually realizes its benefits.
(5) YouTube - "Belleruth Naparstek On PTSD" - 7 videos
(6) Article - "Trauma Update: On The 'Tipping Point For Tapping' Therapy" - commonhealth.wbur.org
(7) YouTube - Emotional Freedom Technique (EMT) Demonstration -
by mercola
(8) Article - "Getting Rid Of Repeating Nightmares: A Simple, Potent ..." - huffingtonpost.com
(9) Web search - Interviews with Dr. Barry Krakow about treatment for sleep problems, PTSD and nightmares
(10) Article - "The Two-Part Film Technique: Empowering Dissociative Clients To Alter Cognitive Distortions And Maladaptive Behaviors" by Sarah Krakauer -academia.edu
Using self-hypnosis visualization to access one's "Inner Self-Helper/Collective Heart"
I recommend the following resources for PTSD treatment -
(1) Article - "Could Ayahuasca Be The Next Medical Marijuana?" - cnn.com The hallucinogenic Ayahausca brew is illegal in the U.S., however, many people, including veterans, are travelling to Peru to participate in Ayahuasca healing rituals. This article reports on benefits and dangers.
(2) Book - "Warrior's Return: Restoring The Soul After War" by Ed Tick
(3) Book - "Getting Past Your Past: ... EMDR Therapy" by Francine Shapiro
(4) YouTube - "Guided Imagery For Soldiers with Balleruth Naparstek" Soldier, Dave, initially hates guided imagery, but gradually realizes its benefits.
(5) YouTube - "Belleruth Naparstek On PTSD" - 7 videos
(6) Article - "Trauma Update: On The 'Tipping Point For Tapping' Therapy" - commonhealth.wbur.org
(7) YouTube - Emotional Freedom Technique (EMT) Demonstration -
by mercola
(8) Article - "Getting Rid Of Repeating Nightmares: A Simple, Potent ..." - huffingtonpost.com
(9) Web search - Interviews with Dr. Barry Krakow about treatment for sleep problems, PTSD and nightmares
(10) Article - "The Two-Part Film Technique: Empowering Dissociative Clients To Alter Cognitive Distortions And Maladaptive Behaviors" by Sarah Krakauer -academia.edu
Using self-hypnosis visualization to access one's "Inner Self-Helper/Collective Heart"
I'm not going to try to compare my service in the Marine Corps with that of these men, yet I am going to compare what I know about any generation of Airmen, Marines, Sailors and Soldiers.
You cannot reasonably expect that 100% of all those that sign up for military service were mentally stable to begin with. Recruits enter their branch's basic training with a certain percentage of which are unable to complete the physical demands, yet alone the psychological challenges and pressure. Throw them into a combat zone in a part of the world so far away from home and we expect them to continue that discipline?
I would advise any young person that before you take the word of the federal government for the promises of having college paid for, commissary benefits and VA administrated health benefits...you look in the mirror and ask yourself whether or not you really want to "settle" for this type of work?
Remember, there are plenty of very financially successful people in the White House and both houses of Congress that would be more than happy to send you off rather than their own children! Oh and they don't have to wait for the medical care that you will either...
You cannot reasonably expect that 100% of all those that sign up for military service were mentally stable to begin with. Recruits enter their branch's basic training with a certain percentage of which are unable to complete the physical demands, yet alone the psychological challenges and pressure. Throw them into a combat zone in a part of the world so far away from home and we expect them to continue that discipline?
I would advise any young person that before you take the word of the federal government for the promises of having college paid for, commissary benefits and VA administrated health benefits...you look in the mirror and ask yourself whether or not you really want to "settle" for this type of work?
Remember, there are plenty of very financially successful people in the White House and both houses of Congress that would be more than happy to send you off rather than their own children! Oh and they don't have to wait for the medical care that you will either...
38
To the editors of NYT: PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE devote more columns to subjects like these instead of bread and circus events that purport to be political. Most civilians still have no idea of the dangerous consequences that accompany military actions. How can we make educated choices for leadership otherwise?
6
I know this might seem too obvious, but when you sign up to be a hired killer by the state and you end up killing people and having some of your compatriots die with you, it's going to have a long effect on your life. The propaganda they teach you in boot camp to dehumanize "the enemy" can help the "strongest among them" to continue to compartmentalize the reality of what it means to supposedly kill for your country's beliefs, but when your contract ends and you are back to the current USA reality, any remnants of humanity you still have haunt you.
Next lifetime if that is what happens become a war protester before you sign on the dotted line to kill people.
Maybe gun control to boot might help so the impulse to kill yourself when depressed and you will have better odds of failure.
The government can spend billions trying to understand why hired killers sometimes have consciences and can't escape the facts of what they have done to other human beings, but it's just going to be money down the drain like the war they sent the kids into anyway.
Perhaps better drugs and brainwashing might help.
Next lifetime if that is what happens become a war protester before you sign on the dotted line to kill people.
Maybe gun control to boot might help so the impulse to kill yourself when depressed and you will have better odds of failure.
The government can spend billions trying to understand why hired killers sometimes have consciences and can't escape the facts of what they have done to other human beings, but it's just going to be money down the drain like the war they sent the kids into anyway.
Perhaps better drugs and brainwashing might help.
I'm not really surprised, the health care system in the US is a joke. We've released huge numbers of people from psychiatric care who have become homeless and in and out of hospitals or in jail instead, costing the taxpayers much more then it would have cost to properly take care of them. We send the poor to go fight our wars for us, why would anyone think we would really spend the money to take care of them afterward?
2
I certainly am in no position to give an intelligent opinion on why a particular unit, let alone any given individual service person who has seen combat chooses to end his or her life. However, I cannot help but think it relevant that since World War Two, America's wars are far from universally popular, have demanded no real sacrifice on the home front, and generally treat those who return after service as just another consumer who has been out of touch for awhile.
Most responsible are those politicians who send our service people abroad with little in the way of clear focus and a satisfactory exit strategy. The horrors of war are bad enough, but it cannot help but matter if what you go through seems to have been in vain and/or you come home to to a populace that does not acknowledge it cannot understand what you have been through. To have the leaders (and most civilians) reduce what you went through as just a contractual obligation on your part -- as if you had merely signed up for a cell phone plan -- must feel like a betrayal to many of our fighters, undoubtedly contributing to self-questioning about the morality of they at times did.
Perhaps useful for those vets suffering from survivors guilt would be to speak with Holocaust survivors (what few are left),as well and their children, who have grown up in environments in which such guilt played a huge part.
Most responsible are those politicians who send our service people abroad with little in the way of clear focus and a satisfactory exit strategy. The horrors of war are bad enough, but it cannot help but matter if what you go through seems to have been in vain and/or you come home to to a populace that does not acknowledge it cannot understand what you have been through. To have the leaders (and most civilians) reduce what you went through as just a contractual obligation on your part -- as if you had merely signed up for a cell phone plan -- must feel like a betrayal to many of our fighters, undoubtedly contributing to self-questioning about the morality of they at times did.
Perhaps useful for those vets suffering from survivors guilt would be to speak with Holocaust survivors (what few are left),as well and their children, who have grown up in environments in which such guilt played a huge part.
2
Served with the 3rd Marines 65-68. God Bless all of the men and women serving today. We come from a civilized society and then we go to war and do what has to be done. I have been told that more of us Vietnam veterans have committed suicide than died there. Please go to the VA and seek help. There are men and women there that are the same as us and they will do everything to help you. Thank you for your service and welcome home. God Bless each and everyone of you. Ron
1
When one considers the time involved in intake, then getting evaluated, then getting an appointment, a veteran seeking help for PTSD can face a wait of nine months before actually seeing a therapist. Of course, of the veteran is willing to state the s/he is a danger to her/himself or to others, the wait can be shortened, but making such a statement can have severe adverse consequences if a person wishes to have a military career. There is a catch-22 for some, and no simple cure for any.
The real tragedy is that our men and women returning from Iraq and Afghanistan were sent there at all. The Bush/Cheney administration was beating the drums of war long before the attacks of 9/11, and their campaign to link the attacks to a non-existent threat of weaponry in Iraq is the worst of calculated lies. For a group of armchair warriors who avoided our country's draft by hook and by crook, they were sure eager to send other people's kids to war. They and their cronies have been loathe to support increased services for the thousands upon thousands of veterans who have returned with physical and mental health problems. This is worse than a tragedy; it is a national failure and embarrassment.
The real tragedy is that our men and women returning from Iraq and Afghanistan were sent there at all. The Bush/Cheney administration was beating the drums of war long before the attacks of 9/11, and their campaign to link the attacks to a non-existent threat of weaponry in Iraq is the worst of calculated lies. For a group of armchair warriors who avoided our country's draft by hook and by crook, they were sure eager to send other people's kids to war. They and their cronies have been loathe to support increased services for the thousands upon thousands of veterans who have returned with physical and mental health problems. This is worse than a tragedy; it is a national failure and embarrassment.
3
Every time our politicians and candidates say "we need boots on the ground" I want to scream alright then you go over there.
My thoughts and prayers are with all of our men and women who suffer after their deployments. I am so sorry that this has happened to you. May God bless you.
My thoughts and prayers are with all of our men and women who suffer after their deployments. I am so sorry that this has happened to you. May God bless you.
I understand pstd in a nonviolent way. I see very clearly what we have here is a lack of forgiveness. Self, societal & religious lack of forgiveness.
To soldiers who are suffering:
* Our creator ("God") loves you UNCONDITIONALLY. Remorse IS enough & you have to stop yourself at some point. Self punishment is not necessary. LIVE for the lost lives.
*Meds imo, are a temporary handle but may be necessary to function until you see fit. Trust your own instincts on what you need.
*Honoring a memory is much different from carrying guilt daily. So don't punish yourself any further.
*Know that the V.A. will always be half in half out thing. Otherwise with saying so they would not be able to have war at all.
*There is something still very broken about emotional recovery systems. They deal with hurting people with their heads rather than their hearts. Trust yourself & what you need.
* No stigma for any caring man who reaches out for assistance with more than any human should handle alone. Any good woman will recognize that.
*NO guilt for emotional suffering from family or otherwise. You don't need any more. It's wasteful, selfish & condescending to a human beings experiences.
*Accept the past cannot be changed. Have the strength to let it bring out the best in you TODAY.
Many prayers to lost & suffering souls. You have put too much on yourself. I can say without a doubt, there were a lot more hands at work influencing what happened in your life.
To soldiers who are suffering:
* Our creator ("God") loves you UNCONDITIONALLY. Remorse IS enough & you have to stop yourself at some point. Self punishment is not necessary. LIVE for the lost lives.
*Meds imo, are a temporary handle but may be necessary to function until you see fit. Trust your own instincts on what you need.
*Honoring a memory is much different from carrying guilt daily. So don't punish yourself any further.
*Know that the V.A. will always be half in half out thing. Otherwise with saying so they would not be able to have war at all.
*There is something still very broken about emotional recovery systems. They deal with hurting people with their heads rather than their hearts. Trust yourself & what you need.
* No stigma for any caring man who reaches out for assistance with more than any human should handle alone. Any good woman will recognize that.
*NO guilt for emotional suffering from family or otherwise. You don't need any more. It's wasteful, selfish & condescending to a human beings experiences.
*Accept the past cannot be changed. Have the strength to let it bring out the best in you TODAY.
Many prayers to lost & suffering souls. You have put too much on yourself. I can say without a doubt, there were a lot more hands at work influencing what happened in your life.
1
Am sorry to read this Article , Our government should be careful , How to mentally trained them to be strange in a region where life is different then our standard and very clear pictur of any mission , What they are trying to accomplish. My thoughts and prayers for the innocent officer who are suffering.
These guys need eachother when they come home. They should be living in a town that welcomes them to live, work, hang out and exercise together. Yes, they must create a community with many of their own kind available to them.
1
The answer to fixing PTSD for those who were never in combat is to take men from a Marine Bn, approx 900 men and instead of sending them home after their enlistment is up we will make they all live together in some soon to be determined town. Not a concentration camp-----something a bit nicer?
Do you have any idea what actual combat vets would think of this idea?
Make sure you take their weapons away before telling them.
Do you have any idea what actual combat vets would think of this idea?
Make sure you take their weapons away before telling them.
This is a most difficult article to read. It speaks of realities we would rather deny or pretend only happen to others elsewhere. That we have done everything that we can do to assist.
The realities silenced me until the extremely myopic self-serving assertion of Craig J. Bryan who as part of the Durkheim Project developed linguistics-driven prediction models to estimate the risk of suicide. These models were generated from unstructured clinical notes with an inference accuracy which was consistently 65% or more. With this high level of accuracy the data suggests that clinicians could potentially screen "seemingly" healthy patients at the primary care level, and to continuously evaluate the suicide risk among psychiatric patients..
This data apparent gives Mr. Bryan the chutzpah to state: “… most veterans who kill themselves do not go to treatment or give up. They are not interested.” NOT INTERESTED !!! It is apparent from the factual accounts that quite the opposite is true.
The realities silenced me until the extremely myopic self-serving assertion of Craig J. Bryan who as part of the Durkheim Project developed linguistics-driven prediction models to estimate the risk of suicide. These models were generated from unstructured clinical notes with an inference accuracy which was consistently 65% or more. With this high level of accuracy the data suggests that clinicians could potentially screen "seemingly" healthy patients at the primary care level, and to continuously evaluate the suicide risk among psychiatric patients..
This data apparent gives Mr. Bryan the chutzpah to state: “… most veterans who kill themselves do not go to treatment or give up. They are not interested.” NOT INTERESTED !!! It is apparent from the factual accounts that quite the opposite is true.
1
If you had been a combat vet you would have understood better.Yes they may miss the adrenaline rush and the going outside the wire hunting.
They may miss their comrades and friends deeply.
But it's quite likely they do that missing alone. Often while self medicating. Not in a VA facility.
In fact if there was a Bn or company reunion it's quite they would stay home deeply drepreesed as to how much they miss their team mates rather than actually go to a,reunion and see them.
It took me literally many decades before I could go to,a reunion. Not that I did not want to go at some level long before.
It's tricky. But an actual combat vet would see at once what i understand and what you missed in those comments.
They may miss their comrades and friends deeply.
But it's quite likely they do that missing alone. Often while self medicating. Not in a VA facility.
In fact if there was a Bn or company reunion it's quite they would stay home deeply drepreesed as to how much they miss their team mates rather than actually go to a,reunion and see them.
It took me literally many decades before I could go to,a reunion. Not that I did not want to go at some level long before.
It's tricky. But an actual combat vet would see at once what i understand and what you missed in those comments.
Marines and Navy Corpsmen of 2/7, thank you.
Dave Philipps, thank you.
Dave Philipps, thank you.
2
As retired Army I started a community-based treatment center, called SOLDIER CENTER, which specializes in treating military personnel and veterans suffering with combat trauma issues. Our treatment is different from the VA, it is effective and offered in a timely manner with minimal dropout rates. As a veteran, an "old soldier" I offer a straight-forward approach at a center where veterans are respected for their service. We treat combat traumas, guilt, shame and moral injury successfully. Our goal is to help veterans reclaim their lives through this treatment. There is HOPE. We offer pro bono treatment to OIF/OEF veterans which provides great outcome results. (www.soldier-center.com)
2
Reading this story twice now, it makes me ashamed or even dirty to be an American. And I love my country but no one should treat their military heroes like this. This is a wake up call. Anyone reading this story needs to email it to everyone you know.
2
Over and over, reading this, I heard them say, "I miss them." It seems so clear that what they need to recover is each other. Broadcasting them back into America when all that kept them alive in war was each other is inept and ignores what they need. Each other. Yes, they have hometowns and families, but war devours all. I couldn't agree more with the commenters who proposed some system of re-entry that keeps battalions together, in service. Perhaps they could serve 3 months and be off 3 months, etc. Whatever it takes to prevent them from losing those bonds that held them to life over there. They deserve it here. Knowing they will regularly be with their brothers again could be the hope that keeps them going. If they need each other, we have to find out how to make it happen. Those who don't need the regular contact should still be provided regular ways to meet their brothers...paid for by US. Because they have all paid far, far too much.
We should be treating our vets better. Thanks so much for your service. This article should be required reading for anyone running for office.
1
I am heartbroken reading this article, but as a parent of a grown child who is a veteran (13 years in the Navy) and who is struggling at this very moment in a mental hospital with depression and many other issues that have resulted in repeated suicide attempts, I'd beg to differ with the studies saying that it's only combat vets who are affected. My child was also deployed to Afghanistan and returned damaged mentally, likely from paranoia and stress. Other factors such as a demanding deployment on a ship too soon afterwards, use of legal stimulants used (by many) to be able to work the long hours required and the breakup of his marriage and loss of his wife and two children and inadequate mental health care have culminated in his inability to summon a desire to go on living. Another huge issue is the military's "zero tolerance" policy for drug abuse that requires separation with limited or no benefits for the service member. This is the situation in which we find ourselves. And we are running out of options. Certain VA personnel have been supportive and helpful because I'm a mother with a very loud mouth, but it may be too late. I heard on the radio a few weeks ago that 22 returning veterans die by suicide in this country every day. That MUST change! The military and the VA should start to remedy that by not denying health benefits under any circumstances to EVERY mentally ill service member. And making sure care is immediate and quality. It's a moral imperative.
70
1) The effects on families of the veterans trauma are significant & must be recognized.
2) the therapeutic potential of working with vets in the context of their families should be part of the therapeutic plan of care (there needs to actually BE a therapeutic plan of care!)
3) Group therapy is more likely to be effective than individual therapy - it is important that they feel part of a joint effort - and they are used to working in combat groups -
4) I have learned of a multitude of treatment & support options by following these posts. Look for them. It will take time. Get your buddies and your family and friends to search the comments. The information is there.
5) Thank you for serving. Thanks to the commentators for your many wise observations and recommendations. And best fortune to all.
2) the therapeutic potential of working with vets in the context of their families should be part of the therapeutic plan of care (there needs to actually BE a therapeutic plan of care!)
3) Group therapy is more likely to be effective than individual therapy - it is important that they feel part of a joint effort - and they are used to working in combat groups -
4) I have learned of a multitude of treatment & support options by following these posts. Look for them. It will take time. Get your buddies and your family and friends to search the comments. The information is there.
5) Thank you for serving. Thanks to the commentators for your many wise observations and recommendations. And best fortune to all.
Where is that statistic coming from: 22 returning veterans dying by suicide/day? That is more than casualties in the frontline or even abroad.
1
We need research on whether or not suicide is a contagious mental disorder; ditto certain kinds of depression among young women.
5 Path Hypnosis allows a person to heal from tragic events. Anyone suffering should look up a 5 Pather in their area. I offer my 5 Path services for free to veterans suffering from PTSD. 5 Path heals.
This is a nation of motivational speakers and talking about ones problems is unacceptable. Not surprised that the therapist suggested to treat war memories like a bad breakup, to get over them. Without understanding PTSD, I can at least imagine that these vets feel very misunderstood and isolated. If the stories of their negative experiences are censored by society, then why should living in this society matter to them?
1
I worked at two VAs and know many more VA mental health workers. They are the hardest working clinicians I know. Dedicated to their patients, vigilant to be the very best. People who gave up family and free time all for caring for veterans like me. While I know not all get excellent care, many do. Demonizing these folks is aiming scorn the wrong direction.
3
It seems that there young men have issues which are very hard to treat. Even well crafted treatment with an excellent private therapist can take many, many years to be truly effective when the problems are so complex. Such treatment is simply not available to most folks. It is also not the kind of treatment done by the VA, which does not have the funds to support it.
To me it seems that another issue is the lack of plan or direction when these fellows are discharged. Many join the service right out of high school. Some do so because they don't have a plan or schooling they can/want to do. They then experience deep comradeship in an environment which closely directs and monitors what they do and where they do. If they are in battle the experience is highly dangerous, exciting (in good and bad ways), and very unique. When they leave the service many do not have skills that translate to civilian jobs. So they have lost the ordered life; lost the comradeship; lost the adrenaline rush producing environment; and lost the uniform which brings both attention and respect. Even those who are not traumatized and depressed must surely feel let down and at loose ends. More attention during and after discharge ought to be paid to post-service life.
To me it seems that another issue is the lack of plan or direction when these fellows are discharged. Many join the service right out of high school. Some do so because they don't have a plan or schooling they can/want to do. They then experience deep comradeship in an environment which closely directs and monitors what they do and where they do. If they are in battle the experience is highly dangerous, exciting (in good and bad ways), and very unique. When they leave the service many do not have skills that translate to civilian jobs. So they have lost the ordered life; lost the comradeship; lost the adrenaline rush producing environment; and lost the uniform which brings both attention and respect. Even those who are not traumatized and depressed must surely feel let down and at loose ends. More attention during and after discharge ought to be paid to post-service life.
9
Seems like there's an "after battle" to be fought--and that's the one the vets now are facing. And it's just as tough; to find a way through this aftermath and come through whole. I'm grateful to those reaching out to others and would like to see more funding to keep this going. This and more.
9
This article deeply saddens me, more so because it was avoidable. To all those who are affected by this, please pay attention to what you do in the voting booth. It has consequences.
43
You are so right. The politicians are always willing to lay down your life for their country. If we want to avoid these sense;less, meaningless wars (Viet Nam, Iraq, Afghanistan) we need two things. A draft and a tax surcharge to pay for them. If these were proposed by Bush, the wars would never have happened. But so few people are effected by the recent wars that it is easy to wear a ribbon and a bumper sticker without doing anything or being impacted. In VN, the majority of the soldiers were undereducated and poor. Now the guys are Reservists and Guard who never should be mobilized for these wars. But Cheney et al found that to be an easy way to populate the battle fields with minimal societal impact. How do they sleep? When the hawks start beating the Syria/Iraq/ Iran drums, make sure they are willing to send their kids and grand kids and that they are willing to pay as we go. They will say "of course not".
1
Among the Republican pretenders to the presidency, or in Hillary Rodham Clinton or her nomination competition, is there even one person who takes this problem seriously enough to do something about it?
8
It's horrible. I'm so sad right now and really had no idea how many suicides were occurring. Who indeed is going to say anything about this, Democrat or Republican? (Sanders?)
My thoughts are so confounded right now...
I am thankful for the service of our armed forces.
However, I am so disgusted by the "out of sight, out of mind" approach that our government takes towards our veterans. Seemingly, the VA system of care is no better than some of the developing countries we give aid to, yet we can't take care of home...or more specifically, we can't take care of those who defend home!
Shame on our government!
I am thankful for the service of our armed forces.
However, I am so disgusted by the "out of sight, out of mind" approach that our government takes towards our veterans. Seemingly, the VA system of care is no better than some of the developing countries we give aid to, yet we can't take care of home...or more specifically, we can't take care of those who defend home!
Shame on our government!
18
Don't broad brush the VA as a bad entity. I have been using it for about 15 years and the medical service is excellent. The people that I have come into contact with are competent and caring. That they can't figure out what is wrong with someone who never comes to their facility is not something to blame the VA for. People spend a lot of money at private clinics trying to deal with depression. And they struggle too. Sometimes people just have to man up!
The only "shame on the government" is for starting these stupid conflicts.
The only "shame on the government" is for starting these stupid conflicts.
Shame on us for electing that government and allowing it to continually frighten us and keep our soldiers fighting. Shame on us for paying men and women too little to fight wars we pay absolutely no attention to. When they come home, we say, "Thank you for your service," and think we've paid the bill.
1
I know more than one part of this horrible story sounds like a cracked record, but the most frustrating (if not surprising) is the part that says the data masters of the military and federal government cannot identify the increased probability of suicide for these men as a certain statistical factor. Of course soldiers are at greater risk for self harm - so are college students, and a variety of other groups you might or might not expect - but someday the public has to become aware of the severe limitations of behavioral science and its ability to predict what one human being will do. You can identify the groups, the general circumstances, that correlate with risk, but you cannot figure out which single persons will or will not take the last step. It's impossible, because humans are too complicated for our "science." The only thing we know is the seemingly nonsensical, maddening, "contagious" nature of suicide within identifying risk groups.
Are these suicide rates worse than they were for World War II veterans? And if so, is it because the veterans now feel completely despised by their countrymen?
This means, first, that we have to take the blame, the guilt, for these suicides up front - not hoping we'll be able to prevent them after the fact; and second, that if there ever is a way to draft men into using lethal force for the purposes of government without damaging them in the process, it will mean finding a way to protect their spirits up front, not sometime later.
Are these suicide rates worse than they were for World War II veterans? And if so, is it because the veterans now feel completely despised by their countrymen?
This means, first, that we have to take the blame, the guilt, for these suicides up front - not hoping we'll be able to prevent them after the fact; and second, that if there ever is a way to draft men into using lethal force for the purposes of government without damaging them in the process, it will mean finding a way to protect their spirits up front, not sometime later.
8
We have to stop thinking of this as some far off distant war, and start thinking of it as our war. We were insulated largely from the effects of the war by having a volunteer force.
I am grateful for the men and women who have served. I intend to demonstrate my appreciation in the future, not just by words.
I am grateful for the men and women who have served. I intend to demonstrate my appreciation in the future, not just by words.
13
After 21 years service, retired from the US Air Force. Having very bad PTSD I had found myself sitting in corners afraid to come out. I also had a graduate degree in Psychology. I understood what was wrong. In the military I had been conditioned not to feel my emotions when traumatic events took place. I was taught to push down the feelings and go to my programming in how to act in specific events. Through the years I had built up loads of memories and tons of feelings...all built up inside of me. It took years to build them up and they can't come out in a day...I would have blown up. i had to re-learn how to feel and with that came the memories and feelings that were built up. That was the bravest thing that I have ever accomplished. It took years. I also found a web site that talked about music and how it can help heal. The site was OurPsychicLives.com. With the music, I was able to heal. Gallons of tears, piles of fear, whirlwinds of anger, waves of sadness, amazing loss, learning to accept love. PTSD is a state of being in constant fear and not feeling safe. Love makes a person feel safe and when they feel safe, emotions come out. Without understanding that, people freak out when they are loved. I have come a long way. I have some more to go. It takes time and the VA's process isn't about time, it is about get them in and get it them out. Nothing loving ever happens without patients or the guidance of God.
31
I found a website by this name but couldn't tell whether they were selling music enhanced by prayer or telling you to make your own or both. I couldn't tell what they were selling or where on the site that was. Does this sound like the right site? Could you clarify?
we are grateful for your service to the nation. The current VA medical system are short staffs nationwide. Farming out the PTSD counseling could be done. However, the cost could be higher. Furthermore, there will be more PTSD cases once the Middle East conflicts are over.
We pray to god for his help to our returning veterans.
We pray to god for his help to our returning veterans.
You should be one of the people developing therapeutic approaches for the VA. As an RN I have found that the most important thing I can do is LISTEN to my patients and what THEY think might help. I hope that DavePhillips -- and the men he talks about in his article -- see your remarks. Brilliant!
Perhaps these troubled men would feel better if they could shoot George W. Bush, Donald Rumsfeld, and Dick Cheney. They were the ultimate cause of these warrior's misery. I think it would give them some closure on their lives and do the country a favor.
26
Moral injury in addition to PTSD is what they are dealing with. An article on moral injury would be appreciated. Not allowing people to enlist in the military who have experienced more that five ACE (adverse childhood events) might be a start and might save some lives. The only real solution in the end is to stop senseless wars. Don't vote anyone into office who sees war as a solution to anything.
30
Sure, too bad Truman, Acheson, Bradley and Marshall aren't around so they could be shot for allowing MacArthur to run amock in N Korea up to the Chinese border, after the mission truly was accomplished. What was that: free S Korea.
They are also afflicted with Survivor's guilt -- In any event, the therapeutic "technique" which the VA favors is what Behaviorists call "desensitization." This may be effective for phobias -- but it is not safe for overcoming emotional trauma and survivor guilt. Using desensitization to treat battle trauma is equivalent to trying to heal a fractured leg by hitting it so as to break it again -- over and over. It doesn't work with rape trauma either, and certainly can hardly be expected to be effective with what these men experienced.
I don't think this is the V.A.s fault. These guys experienced horrific things that are indelibly etched in their memories. No therapy or prescription is going to take those memories away. Each will have to learn to live with them. It's like living with a chronic illness. You may never be over it, but you can live a good life despite it. The first step is to decide suicide isn't an option. The second is to accept the past as what it was, and find reasons to live in the present and for the future.
8
Therapy of course wont take those memories away, but they can change the way that a person experiences the memory. Therapy works. It is hard, it is difficult, but it does work. I think the attitude that PTSD is a chronic illness that will never get better is both inaccurate and takes away hope. There is hope, it can get better.
Mr. Boyle, are you a combat veteran?
4
So this is the remedy? Gosh, I guess the military should have given these guys a pamphlet with your sage words when their service was completed and the VA psychiatric staff the same!
Our country sent these men (and women) to this living HELL and it is now our country's responsibility to help them heal and someday maybe feel alive again, not tell them to accept the past and learn to live with it. I realize they volunteered, but they deserve our respect, honor, and caring.
Our country sent these men (and women) to this living HELL and it is now our country's responsibility to help them heal and someday maybe feel alive again, not tell them to accept the past and learn to live with it. I realize they volunteered, but they deserve our respect, honor, and caring.
2
We really don't understand our obligations to protect and take care of the men and women we send to fight our wars. Stories like this one are a start.
21
Dave, thank you. I am the daughter of WWII Marine who served in the Pacific. Every Friday night of my childhood I went with him to the VFW in Independence, Ohio where he went to provide support to returning Vietnam veterans. I am so moved by your piece buy saddened that it appears to be worse now. This past summer I served as an advocate for a 68 year old Vietnam veteran who finally got into the VA after years of trying but only because his base was declared an Agent Orange site in 2012. But now after the initial visit, the VA cancelled his last visit. I doubt he will try again. He is 68 and has given up. The tragedy of these very young men is heartbreaking and a national tragedy. Please continue to give them a voice.
25
I heard a piece on NPR yesterday about VA whistle blowers. One of them had reported a psychiatrist for falsifying treatments of PTSD vets, logging that she had seen them when she had not. The report went on to say the whistle blower was fired but the psychiatrist was still working there.
This piece makes me cry. Such good people ruined by a needless war brought about by cowards in an oval office.
Yeah Trump........it is just like your military school for brats.
This piece makes me cry. Such good people ruined by a needless war brought about by cowards in an oval office.
Yeah Trump........it is just like your military school for brats.
31
My deepest thanks to the men of 2/7 and their families, to Dave Phillips and his editors, for their courage and tenacity in making real, what is unreal, for so many Americans. Each one of us has a role to play in our nation's fight against suicide. This epidemic, particularly among veterans, is hereby declared out of the shadows -- and in the public square. Developing effective ways to save lives from suicide requires significant changes in our culture and our health care systems. Can't be done, you say? Londoners in 1800s thought cholera could never be beaten. And then they built sewers. In the 1950s, Americans thought that every cancer meant a death sentence. Gene therapy success stories today are pushing that myth into a smaller corner. We will get there with suicide, too. Do you hear us, Congress? Do you hear us, V.A.? We mothers of lost sons demand that you champion the fight against this epidemic!
33
This is an agonizing, heart-brake of a story. And so very important. One is grateful for its transparency.
It seems we just can't get past the never ending combat, and all the scorching injuries, deaths, and dire upheaval that drowns men (& women & families & countries) in its wake.
No more war. It is the only answer.
And be kind to all. G-d bless our brave men and women.
It seems we just can't get past the never ending combat, and all the scorching injuries, deaths, and dire upheaval that drowns men (& women & families & countries) in its wake.
No more war. It is the only answer.
And be kind to all. G-d bless our brave men and women.
9
Saying "God bless" and "no more war" is heartfelt but it will do nothing concrete to help the men in this story or the hundreds waiting for psychiatric care with the VA right now.
Dave,
What a beautiful, heartfelt and heart-wrenching piece. I has the ring of truth and I know that all the vets who read it, and their family members, will resonate with it. I want to invite you Dave, and your readers, to check out my new book, Waking Up from War: A Better Way Home for Veterans and Nations, www.wakingupfromwar.com , based on eight years of working with thousands of returning vets and family members and care providers. It addresses many of the questions and experiences you convey. It illustrates how war trauma is actually transformed, and the role that the community of brother and sister vets and of family members can play, if harnessed, in its transformation. Check it out and let me know your thoughts.
What a beautiful, heartfelt and heart-wrenching piece. I has the ring of truth and I know that all the vets who read it, and their family members, will resonate with it. I want to invite you Dave, and your readers, to check out my new book, Waking Up from War: A Better Way Home for Veterans and Nations, www.wakingupfromwar.com , based on eight years of working with thousands of returning vets and family members and care providers. It addresses many of the questions and experiences you convey. It illustrates how war trauma is actually transformed, and the role that the community of brother and sister vets and of family members can play, if harnessed, in its transformation. Check it out and let me know your thoughts.
2
I could not read past the 8th paragraph. This in my mind is a national disgrace. And we have many more stories like this one where our fellow American citizens are cast to the waste dump. I personally have not gone to war. I can say thank you to all the military service men and women who have sacrificed for me and all of us but that will not fix their problems especially suicide. I am personally familiar with suicide. It is a terrible to endure! It felt surreal to me at the time. It's all glory when you get recruited or join voluntarily on the front end. But after the war is over we see the devastation on the back end. There is no one that can tell me that this cannot be reduced if not eliminated. We throw money at the problem but there has to be a commitment by the VA to really help these vets and not treat them like a number! I wonder if George W, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Rice really think about the destruction they and the administration have caused. I sincerely wonder if they actually think about these men and women that were cast into hell at a young age and have found no solace after coming home from that hell!! But reality tells me different based on articles like this one. I feel helpless and angry that we have allowed to use WAR as the only answer when in reality it never is!!
21
You told the story with great skill and without getting in its way. You must know it is deeply moving. I found it so; and I'm grateful to you; yet I agonize that we don't know how to help.
24
Sharing your voice with this letter to the NY Times helps and vote for candidates who will fund veterans' care.
I never went to war but I can relate. I was orphaned at 10 due to my mom's suicide. Then came the many different foster homes and group homes. Eventually I made it back to mainstream by going to college ( a great one at that - Williams College). But like these young soldiers, I had changed. Like these soldiers, I developed a certain dark attitude about the world that my peers did not have, so they saw me as hardened or "street" and I could no relate to their open hearts. It takes a LONG time to get back into society - and often it takes hitting rock bottom as well as discovering God. THEN - after many years - you finally see that the "trauma" you experienced was actually a small price to pay for the blessing of having a unique experience.
Their lives will never be "normal" and when they can see the blessing in this, they are on their way "home".
ALL these gentleman are on a path now of discovering their war experience as a unique blessing, and that true enough, they are not victims, and that love is all that matters in this world.
May many miracles and God's presence bless them on this new journey.
Their lives will never be "normal" and when they can see the blessing in this, they are on their way "home".
ALL these gentleman are on a path now of discovering their war experience as a unique blessing, and that true enough, they are not victims, and that love is all that matters in this world.
May many miracles and God's presence bless them on this new journey.
12
The great pity of the suffering these Marines endure is that it was for no purpose. Just like Vietnam.
30
Please, if you are thinking of killing yourself, postpone it by a day, a day, a day, another day. Better by far to be than not to be. There is no peace in death, I don't think so.
2
Every combat veteran should be supported monetarily for life and have lifetime private psychiatric care.
5
Lifetime private psychiatric care?
You actually believe that Big Pharma will do a better job than the VA?
You actually believe that Big Pharma will do a better job than the VA?
2
Let's keep in mind that the great majority of people who serve in the military, including the majority of those who serve in war zones, are not combat veterans.
3
Excellent and well informed article, it saddens me deeply that our young Veterans are suffering in silence and need more resources for help. They're basically being casted aside and told to get over it...heartbreaking.
3
I have been a VA patient since 1968. I have never had a problem with getting care on a timely basis. It takes some time to navigate the VA. It helps if you can treat the staff with respect, and can enter the system without a chip on your shoulder, and develop relationships with other patients and the VA staff. If you think you know you don’t need drugs, or want to design your own treatment, you are not likely to benefit by going to the VA or any place else. The VA is for people who want treatment and are willing to take direction, not for people who need treatment but are unwilling to listen or participate.
The military is a structured environment. Soldiers are told what to do, when to do it, and when to stop. When that structure is taken away, many people, including myself, have had trouble, adjusting, and depression, substance abuse, and metal illness can follow. These problems are not the fault of politicians, the VA caregivers or the military itself. The VA or mental health professionals can only help. Finding a spiritual basis for your life through Churches, 12 Step Programs or other means, along with appropriate medical care has helped may people, Politicians who promise to spread pixie dust on you, or fire the evildoers at the VA are unlikely to solve problem that has been with us since people first picked up a club and started wailing on their neighbors.
The military is a structured environment. Soldiers are told what to do, when to do it, and when to stop. When that structure is taken away, many people, including myself, have had trouble, adjusting, and depression, substance abuse, and metal illness can follow. These problems are not the fault of politicians, the VA caregivers or the military itself. The VA or mental health professionals can only help. Finding a spiritual basis for your life through Churches, 12 Step Programs or other means, along with appropriate medical care has helped may people, Politicians who promise to spread pixie dust on you, or fire the evildoers at the VA are unlikely to solve problem that has been with us since people first picked up a club and started wailing on their neighbors.
6
All this pain and suffering, all these suicides, and none of it would have happened if it weren't for the carefully crafted lies of George W. Bush and Dick Cheney - both war criminals.
It's an injustice of the highest order that those who created all this suffering never experienced any of it.
I believe Cheney is still out there giving advise.
It's an injustice of the highest order that those who created all this suffering never experienced any of it.
I believe Cheney is still out there giving advise.
73
The human carnage from war is not only on the battlefield. Even a 'just war' leaves scars for generations. Our warring venture into the middle east was far from a just war. Humanity has tried for ages to repair the damage war brings to the human psyche. The modern medical-industrial complex's failure to alleviate the pain from the most recent war is evidence that such pain is a permanent stain that cannot be removed. It is not a failure of the care-givers. It is a profound failure of the chicken hawks who lead us into this carnage. The criminals who have done this and continue in their warring ways should pay.
23
This article is devastating. Why are these men not receiving the help they need? Can it be, as in Australia, that psychiatrists, whose adequate psychotherapy could possibly save the men, are now choosing to lessen psychotherapy and increase medication? We have many seriously mentally ill persons now dying from metabolic problems and obesity caused by psychiatric medications... their life expectancy has decreased from Australia's expected 84 years/females, 82 years /male to some 56-58 years, mainly because of obesity and cardiac deaths from psychiatric medications.
6
Caroline: What are these medicines?
Those which were spoken of in an NYT report about 2 months ago., Brigid. The gist of the report had to do with what I wrote here. that many psychiatrists are concerned about the increase in the use of medications...the decrease in psychotherapy hours available for the seriously ill, the seriously depressed. Returned soldiers and all our severely mentally deserve better than what is happening to them in the USA and Australia. I'm sorry, I can only remember of clozapine, diazapam and clozoril.
Sorry Brigid. Just remembered there is a book by Professor Peter Gotzsche, "Deadly Psychiatry and Organized Denial". This is available as a Kindle from Amazon, I've been told...it is expected to be published, paper back, before 2016.
As a mother of a Marine deployed in the 3/8 to Iraq, twice, all of the article redounds with "truth, and nothing but the truth". Failure of the provision of mental health treatment, competent and adequate, from the VA is so widespread that only a complete systems overhaul and creation of an independent service will stop this epidemic of suicide. I spent hours on the phone trying to obtain treatment for PTSD and depression for my son. Finally, I took him to the emergency room of the VA over an hour away, which in and of itself is criminal. I even purchased private health care so that he could be treated if the VA failed to provide care. Waiting three months to see a counselor or any qualified counselor, psychiatrist or psychologist is not adequate. Cognitive behavioral therapy is along with medication the most proven treatment for depression and PTSD.
Congress should be ashamed of itself. I will not comment about assigning these young Marines to areas without water, supplies, ammunition or support. That is criminal and I did personally go to my Congressman to complain. The push back was palpable. Criminal indictments should be sought by the justice department for the failure of both the VA and the Defense department. If these military big whigs were threatened with the loss of their pensions, jail and firing, they might responsibly take care with the lives of the Marines with whom they are entrusted.
Congress should be ashamed of itself. I will not comment about assigning these young Marines to areas without water, supplies, ammunition or support. That is criminal and I did personally go to my Congressman to complain. The push back was palpable. Criminal indictments should be sought by the justice department for the failure of both the VA and the Defense department. If these military big whigs were threatened with the loss of their pensions, jail and firing, they might responsibly take care with the lives of the Marines with whom they are entrusted.
16
After my doctor recommended I get treated for my sleep apnea, I went to the same business the VA had sent my husband to a few weeks earlier. I was shocked at the dilapidated building the business was in. The office was dirty, dank, and stunk like mold. Everything in it looked like someone had picked it up off the curb on trash day. I was given an at-home test kit that had clearly been used by many people. I was charged $169 and my insurance paid another $700+. I did not see a nurse, much less a doctor, and the people who took my credit card and gave me instructions seemed hired off the street: greasy hair, dirty fingernails, and clothes that were wrinkled and stained.
Why wouldn't a veteran feel like no one cares what they've been through? Aside from their families, it must be obvious to them that no one does. We treat them like unwanted refuse from wars we'd rather not be reminded of. We throw the word 'hero' at them and think it should suffice.
Why don't these soldiers have first-in-line status for jobs and training? Why do they have a GI bill that limits the time they can spend getting educated? Why aren't they giving financial assistance for obtaining housing during reentry, no matter how long it takes? And for god's sake, why don't they have the best VA healthcare system this nation has ever devised?
Why wouldn't a veteran feel like no one cares what they've been through? Aside from their families, it must be obvious to them that no one does. We treat them like unwanted refuse from wars we'd rather not be reminded of. We throw the word 'hero' at them and think it should suffice.
Why don't these soldiers have first-in-line status for jobs and training? Why do they have a GI bill that limits the time they can spend getting educated? Why aren't they giving financial assistance for obtaining housing during reentry, no matter how long it takes? And for god's sake, why don't they have the best VA healthcare system this nation has ever devised?
9
I am a mom of a vet, a member of 2/8 that also served in helmand province. He did two tours. I thought I had dodge a bullet when he came home unharmed, and then the suicides began, and I realized it's not the bullet that gets you, its the land mines, and they are all around you. My Son is going through his own private hell, and I feel bereft, To see the struggle that he has with his own demons, what have we done to our children? 1% of the people of this country are bearing the burdens of this war, as one mother I say it wasnt worth this, my son is physically whole, but I wonder if he will ever be spiritually whole again, not because I dont believe it is possible, but because I fear that he doesnt. What have we as a nation done! WHat have we done, and how can we ever ever make it better for our veterans and their families again? It is a pain that comes from the vet and reverberates through the vets entire family, and their friends. I consider myself a very strong woman, but i find myself wondering if I will ever know peace of mind and soul again, because my baby is so wounded and I cant fix it.
43
As a mother, albeit one with young children, I can feel your pain radiating from your words. I thank you for taking the time to express them, because I think they are so vitally important. The cost of war lies not in balance sheets or budget outlays. It is a cost that expands to encompass whole families, radiating outward to exact its toll in unimaginable, unpredictable ways. My hope and prayer is that you, and every other parent, spouse, partner, friend, or child of a veteran can find a path to a new wholeness - one that recognizes the staggering cost of war, while also reconciling its ravages with the many small steps forward it takes to reach a full life, mindful of the past but adequately equipped to face the future.
1
I am both progressive and anti-war. But it saddens me to see the many comments that only blame the right. Were that it was true, but it is not.
True, the Republicans bang the drum more loudly and more frequently. But at the end of the day, the Democrats line up to feed at the military budget trough too. Few, if any, Democrats vote against military spending in their district. As long as we pretend that only Republicans spend money on guns, nothing meaningful will be done to restrict our nation's warmongering.
The bi-partisan military spending makes it easier for our leaders to think that they can solve problems at the end point of a gun. The result is tremendous suffering everywhere, both on battlefield and off, during the conflict and after, as this story on veterans' suicide reveals.
True, the Republicans bang the drum more loudly and more frequently. But at the end of the day, the Democrats line up to feed at the military budget trough too. Few, if any, Democrats vote against military spending in their district. As long as we pretend that only Republicans spend money on guns, nothing meaningful will be done to restrict our nation's warmongering.
The bi-partisan military spending makes it easier for our leaders to think that they can solve problems at the end point of a gun. The result is tremendous suffering everywhere, both on battlefield and off, during the conflict and after, as this story on veterans' suicide reveals.
3
The part of this article I read reminds me of books about soldiers in the Afghanistan and Iraq Wars. So many lives ruined and destroyed, and for what? You can't read this stuff and not feel these wars were unconscionable, started by men and women in power with, no skin in the game, and no idea what they were doing.
To hear Republican candidates talk about more wars, with more soldiers dying and lives destroyed, without any idea of what we will accomplish or how, is hard to stomach. They have no idea what they're doing.
They blame Obama for ISIS and the disastrous Middle East without saying it was George W. Bush who created the mess! Bush and Cheney and Rumseld and the rest are responsible for chaos and destruction in the Middle East. Obama has brought the troops home and gotten us out of these wars as much as possible. He is using our military in ways that will be effective without creating another Middle East quagmire. He has learned from the Bush administration's failures, unlike most Republicans (except Rand Paul).
Trump and the others say they will destroy ISIS. What we have to remember is, they have no clue how.
That the Republicans haven't learned we cannot bring peace to the Middle East with our military is beyond belief.
To hear Republican candidates talk about more wars, with more soldiers dying and lives destroyed, without any idea of what we will accomplish or how, is hard to stomach. They have no idea what they're doing.
They blame Obama for ISIS and the disastrous Middle East without saying it was George W. Bush who created the mess! Bush and Cheney and Rumseld and the rest are responsible for chaos and destruction in the Middle East. Obama has brought the troops home and gotten us out of these wars as much as possible. He is using our military in ways that will be effective without creating another Middle East quagmire. He has learned from the Bush administration's failures, unlike most Republicans (except Rand Paul).
Trump and the others say they will destroy ISIS. What we have to remember is, they have no clue how.
That the Republicans haven't learned we cannot bring peace to the Middle East with our military is beyond belief.
19
I bet none of their kids or grandkids will be fighting on these endless wars they want.
1
I wonder if these men had to take the anti-malaria medicine mefloquine (Lariam), which has been linked to suicide.
See http://www.nytimes.com/2002/09/10/health/vital-signs-labeling-added-warn...
and
http://www.malariajournal.com/content/7/1/30
See http://www.nytimes.com/2002/09/10/health/vital-signs-labeling-added-warn...
and
http://www.malariajournal.com/content/7/1/30
2
yes
1
Yes we did
Young men, please don't enlist in the US armed forces. You may be called to a war based on lies or the needs of oil companies.
The recruiters will lie to you as well. War is hell and mostly needless. Don't do the chicken hawks work for them.
The recruiters will lie to you as well. War is hell and mostly needless. Don't do the chicken hawks work for them.
11
So many, many of us were predicted that this would happen when we spoke against the war in Iraq and sending troops to Afghanistan. We were mocked, the war sentiment prevailed. So now the US is reaping what it sawed. That, is the part of the socium which has to enlist because there are no decent jobs. Thank you Bush and Co. for this ongoing disaster, heckofajob.
6
Does George W. Bush have any nightmares? Let me guess. A brilliant job of reporting...I have rarely see such writing. Good for Mr. Dave Phillips
14
Please, separate the human interest side of this article from partisan jabs. Did Lincoln have any nightmares about sending boys to their deaths? Did FDR? How about Truman--who incinerated tens of thousands at Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Did they chortle self-satisfiedly all the way back to Camp David?
Of course W is horrified at the human carnage of the wars he commenced. I'm sure Lincoln, FDR and Truman were too. That's separate and apart from whether the wars were justified, based on what W knew at the time. And that question is not facilely answered, at least by thoughtful people.
Of course W is horrified at the human carnage of the wars he commenced. I'm sure Lincoln, FDR and Truman were too. That's separate and apart from whether the wars were justified, based on what W knew at the time. And that question is not facilely answered, at least by thoughtful people.
1
It is Dick Cheney who doesn't have nightmares. He is incapable of regret. He is only a right wing shrill advocating more war. He should be tried for war crimes and put away where he can't hurt anyone but himself.
1
I'm Glad to see that the senior senator from Arizona got to the bottom of the VA problem and all is well in his home state
5
Too bad NRA members don't usually read the NY Times.
I'm sure most NRA members who urge everyone with a problem, and everyone reading this article, that THE only solution is to buy more guns.
I'm sure most NRA members who urge everyone with a problem, and everyone reading this article, that THE only solution is to buy more guns.
4
I have a cynical angry comment about the V.A. in my heart. But it is tamped down by a hope that a good idea can't be killed even by itself. You are the only people qualified to sit in the chair to be vacated by the woman with a harmful 'breakup BFF' therapy. I do AA, sometimes successfully (6 months dry today, this time.) I've been at it 35 years. The 2 founders were about to drink (death for them) but their 2 hour meeting removed the craving for that one day. Strangers, united by understanding what it feels like to give in to impulse. You guys are uniquely qualified to start a fellowship of support for combat veterans. A Marine from anywhere could know he had the support of the fellowship. Create it, stumble, get up, succeed, bring along the vulnerable, watch suicides statistically tumble, the V.A. changes it's model of Freudian blab therapy to peers supporting each other, you display the beginnings in this article, running to help a friend in danger. No doctors can help me not drink, a fellow sober drunk can, and I do not know how. This is not about drinking, this is about a model you could adapt to your needs. AA has principles that a Marine could probably love, like Honor, Duty, Corps but different words: service, unity and fellowship. Is the answer to be relieved of the bondage of self and care for your brother,which keeps you alive for another day? You'll not look back with regret.
11
Would you suggest an organization modeled on AlAnon and AlAteen for the wives & families & children of these vets? Also, remember,there are women vets in the same condition - often exacerbated by having been raped by their male comrades in arms, including officers. What do you recommend for them to deal with their trauma? Participate in your groups of male vets or have their own segregated groups?
This is a huge issue. War is madness. When powerful guys in fancy offices make the decision to go to war, this should be taken into consideration.
First I want to thank David Philipps for devoting his time to help us get our word out there. We didn't do this article to get sympathy nor to get recognized for our actions. We did this because our brothers and others are hurting. I'm not speaking of just us men in this article but for men who served before us and for the men and woman who will serve in the future. Seeing everyone commenting on this is amazing and I want to personally thank you all for taking the time to read our story. With your attention now please help us get this recognized on a bigger scale. Obviously I'm asking for the sake of my brothers but I myself have two younger brothers who I know will one day follow into this hell. And I want them and they're brothers in arms to be able to come home and not feel alone
Thank you again
Tanner Cleveland
2/7 Golf co Third PLT
Thank you again
Tanner Cleveland
2/7 Golf co Third PLT
166
Tanner Cleveland, thank you for your post. May i add why not ask your brothers not to go to war? Just plain ask? End the madness so to speak or help end it?
Best to you always.
Best to you always.
4
Dear Tanner,
Thank you for your courage and that of your friends in agreeing to be interviewed for this article. You all have done a deeply admirable thing in speaking out like this and exposing your inner wounds so that we as a society truly face the toll that war takes and the obligations we have to our veterans' health.
This comes from a stranger, but I send you my support and hope that you and your comrades, and all veterans--all people--struggling with suicide, know that your lives matter, and that we need you here to fulfill your purpose in life. You have a lot to teach us.
Thank you for your courage and that of your friends in agreeing to be interviewed for this article. You all have done a deeply admirable thing in speaking out like this and exposing your inner wounds so that we as a society truly face the toll that war takes and the obligations we have to our veterans' health.
This comes from a stranger, but I send you my support and hope that you and your comrades, and all veterans--all people--struggling with suicide, know that your lives matter, and that we need you here to fulfill your purpose in life. You have a lot to teach us.
9
Thank you Tanner. I don't know what to say except that I am sorry we, your country, did this to you and your friends. Thank you for taking care of each other in a way that reminds me why I love Marines. Please tell your friends never to give up. You don't know what tomorrow may bring.
3
Dave Philipps has done a superb job of tracking the members of one combat unit and showing the dreadful toll their experiences took on them after they survived the battle on the ground. My book, The Price They Paid: Enduring Wounds of War (Trysail, 2015), shows that for the members of another unit, an air cavalry troop in Vietnam, those who fought their way through the most intensive helicopter combat ever were changed forever. Many still pay the price forty years after the war ended. Philipps shines a light on another unit in a later war, but the results are at least as devastating.
2
Dave Phillips, late from the Gazette Telegraph newspaper in Colorado Springs, won a Pulitzer for his reporting on Veterans problems in that city, which is close to large Fort Carson with an Army combat Division, which has suffered similar vet and war returnee problems.
1
When will anyone understand that the anti depressants they feed these guys CAUSEcthem to be suicidal?
2
When pigs learn to fly...after the pigs have taken their Big Pharma anti-depressant meds.
While there are correlations and links between anti-depressants and suicide, I can state firmly and confidently that sometimes - many times - medication can be a godsend and a blessing. I say this as someone with many years of experience in taking those pills. For some of us, they can mean the difference between making it one day more or not making it at all. The VA should clearly not be relying exclusively on medication, but it does have its place, and can stabilize and calm a patient so that he or she can be in a secure mindset in order to do the hard work of healing.
According to a 2006 NYT article the suicide rate in the army was 17.3 per 100,000. No breakdown of gender, but I assume the base population is overwhelmingly male. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/17/us/17suicide.html
According to the BMJ the male suicide rate in Canada ranges between 20 and 28 per 100,000. http://www.bcmj.org/sites/default/files/BCMJ_53Vol10_suicide_fig1.JPG
Same in the UK http://www.samaritans.org/sites/default/files/kcfinder/files/research/Sa...
The US is a little lower (but doesn't account for suicide by cop). https://www.afsp.org/understanding-suicide/facts-and-figures
Seems to me that suicide is not limited to veterans, but has shown an increase in all males.
According to the BMJ the male suicide rate in Canada ranges between 20 and 28 per 100,000. http://www.bcmj.org/sites/default/files/BCMJ_53Vol10_suicide_fig1.JPG
Same in the UK http://www.samaritans.org/sites/default/files/kcfinder/files/research/Sa...
The US is a little lower (but doesn't account for suicide by cop). https://www.afsp.org/understanding-suicide/facts-and-figures
Seems to me that suicide is not limited to veterans, but has shown an increase in all males.
1
As a non combat vet I cannot imagine what these men have experienced. I can only hope that they find the peace they deserve and find it soon. I also hope that those of us who haven't seen combat and really dont need the services of the VA(I have never used a VA facility) will discontinue using the services which could be better allocated for those that can really use them. Not just to save money and "because I earned it"
2
The lack of consistently available psychological help from the VA seems to me to be another example of what may be the most widespread character flaw of Americans: We want to have all our consumer products and all the government services that benefit us, but we don't want to pay for them. We certainly don't want to pay for services that only benefit other people. Many of us have abandoned the idea of a national social contract and retreated into a fantasy world where radical individualism is all that is necessary. We're content to have a Veterans' Authority that we pretend works well, but we don't care enough to do and pay what it takes to actually fulfill our obligations to our veterans.
The Bush administration cut taxes and then started a war that it pretended would be cheap, and that it was unpatriotic to talk about what our supposedly noble quest for freedom and justice was going to cost. Now the Republican controlled Congress is content to pretend that we're all done with those wars, and leave the veterans to pay the ongoing psychological costs of war on their own. I can understand why Republicans wouldn't want to pay for civilian health care, but it's just an unconscionable abandonment of their responsibility and professed values to let the needs of veterans be sacrificed for the sake of an "all government is bad" ideological purity.
The Bush administration cut taxes and then started a war that it pretended would be cheap, and that it was unpatriotic to talk about what our supposedly noble quest for freedom and justice was going to cost. Now the Republican controlled Congress is content to pretend that we're all done with those wars, and leave the veterans to pay the ongoing psychological costs of war on their own. I can understand why Republicans wouldn't want to pay for civilian health care, but it's just an unconscionable abandonment of their responsibility and professed values to let the needs of veterans be sacrificed for the sake of an "all government is bad" ideological purity.
5
Thanks to the writers of this extraordinary article.
It is simply unacceptable that the help these vets need is not available when sought.
There claims should be processed immediately and accepted at face value, spot audited later, like taxes.
A Congressman from the San Diego area had proposed this, and then it went nowhere in the GOP block-it-all Congress.
If help is not immediately available at the VA, they get a voucher for care in the private sector.
The overuse of meds has probably increased the number of suicides. This is serious malpractice in a government VA hospital mostly protected with government immunity from liability for the damage it causes.
And the reliance on the repeated exposure therapy, is actually more akin to torture than treatment for many. Why the VA keeps using it, after so many who have undergone this "therapy" kill themselves, is puzzling.
It is simply unacceptable that the help these vets need is not available when sought.
There claims should be processed immediately and accepted at face value, spot audited later, like taxes.
A Congressman from the San Diego area had proposed this, and then it went nowhere in the GOP block-it-all Congress.
If help is not immediately available at the VA, they get a voucher for care in the private sector.
The overuse of meds has probably increased the number of suicides. This is serious malpractice in a government VA hospital mostly protected with government immunity from liability for the damage it causes.
And the reliance on the repeated exposure therapy, is actually more akin to torture than treatment for many. Why the VA keeps using it, after so many who have undergone this "therapy" kill themselves, is puzzling.
5
I recently heard a politician bragging about how much care for veterans has improved. Obviously not nearly enough has been done. My heart goes out to The Lost Battalion.
5
Hard to read. Important to read.
I was particularly interested to see veterans' therapy dropout rates being associated with having to revisit traumatic events. My grandmother would NOT talk about what she saw in the war. I respected that and I believe I would feel the same.
I was particularly interested to see veterans' therapy dropout rates being associated with having to revisit traumatic events. My grandmother would NOT talk about what she saw in the war. I respected that and I believe I would feel the same.
3
What a waste that these young people's courage and loyalty to the United States of America was squandered on George W. Bush's petty revenge scheme against Saddam Hussein and the ongoing stupidity in Afghanistan. These soldiers signed up to defend America, not to engage in pointless mis-adventures in historical deathtraps. Small wonder they're depressed.
What were they fighting for anyway?
What were they fighting for anyway?
18
There is no legitimate basis on which to characterize the Iraq War as a "petty revenge scheme". And even John Kerry, in 2004, said the invasion of Afghanistan (unlike Iraq) was the right war, at the right time.
I am surprised at how petty these comments are.
I am surprised at how petty these comments are.
My father was in the Army for 30 years, having fought in WWII, Korea and Vietnam. I want to thank Dave Phillips for taking the time and effort to try to quantify the issues that have long plagued combat veterans. As Phillips points out, it does seem rather odd that the most advanced country with the most sophisticated Army and technology on Earth has never tracked the suicide rates of its most vulnerable veterans. My father, like so many other vets I know, found relief only in talking with other veterans. No amount of conventional civilian therapy (which is useless in most cases) or drugs (which my father refused on the grounds that they only made things worse) can address some of the core existential issues that these men face when returning home from combat. Therefore, It is my profound hope that the government and Veterans Administration are able to better track the threat level to these men and develop more peer-based solutions from the second they discharge - not months and years later, when it may be too late.
5
By habitually not serving in the military our political and economic elites and their offspring are the most cowardly of any similar group in any nation on earth. Even the British Royals have the patriotism, integrity and sense of decency to serve in their armed forces, and even the bravery to take on risky roles and assignments. It's beyond pathetic and disgusting that our elites feel no shame in this behavior. Every 18 year old girl who starts boot camp today is more deserving of being an American than all of these other malingering so-called "men."
11
Marine Cowboy, Why did you have to end an otherwise intelligent post w a back-handed sexist comment? That's just insulting to our female warriors.
Meant to be the opposite...these macho men politicians can't compare to the courage and patriotism of an 18 year old girl (or boy) on her/his first one-minute of service (yes...they are girls, as are the 18 year old boys...only the young with still forming brains can be counted on to follow orders in combat without question.)
This article states that leaders at the top level of the government have yet to figure out who is most at risk for suicide among veterans. But it assumes that that a major factor is the fact that they have been in combat. However this article in the Military Times reports of an extensive study about this very issue. The study showed that there is no substantial difference between combat and non combat troops in regard to their suicide rates.
"The study found that the military group at highest risk for suicide are those who served in the military for less than a full enlistment. In fact, the suicide rate among those who served less than a year was 2.5 times the active-duty rate, according to the research. And those rates remained extremely high among those who served less than three years".
The article goes on to offer explanations as to why this is the case.
http://www.militarytimes.com/story/military/benefits/health-care/2015/04...
"The study found that the military group at highest risk for suicide are those who served in the military for less than a full enlistment. In fact, the suicide rate among those who served less than a year was 2.5 times the active-duty rate, according to the research. And those rates remained extremely high among those who served less than three years".
The article goes on to offer explanations as to why this is the case.
http://www.militarytimes.com/story/military/benefits/health-care/2015/04...
1
This is a a well-researched and powerful piece of reporting. We need to know the consequences of our nation's decsions concerning war and peace. The unfairness of it is striking, with the vast majority untouched by our wars while some of the finest among us (and their families and friends) suffer despite their best efforts.
Sincere thanks to the reporters and to the veterans and loved ones who shared their stories and displyed their shrines.
Sincere thanks to the reporters and to the veterans and loved ones who shared their stories and displyed their shrines.
3
Every last man that served in the two seven is an American hero, end of story.
1
Dulce et decorum est pro patri mori.
Sweet and righteous it is to die for one's country, right?
Every dead man is a hero, even though the cause for which your heroes died was not heroic.
At all.
Still I am sincerely glad you will send your son and daughter to die for nothing.
Someone has to.
Sweet and righteous it is to die for one's country, right?
Every dead man is a hero, even though the cause for which your heroes died was not heroic.
At all.
Still I am sincerely glad you will send your son and daughter to die for nothing.
Someone has to.
1
When you have to fulfill the orders you don't consider good or when you have to go to a war you don't understand, you slightly lose the idea you are fighting for your country and start going mad. I am horribly sorry for all these guys, who gave all their strength to the war and had none left for themselves.
1
After WWII, many suffered just as these Marines did.
Same with Korea, Vietnam and Iraq.
How do we ask these men and women to experience the horror and not support them to best we are able.
Same with Korea, Vietnam and Iraq.
How do we ask these men and women to experience the horror and not support them to best we are able.
1
Twenty-nine years ago I had the honor of leading 2/7 as their CO. It was unquestionably the most incredible and rewarding experience of a 26 year Marine career. I thank those who have taken the time and effort to comment on this article and these Marines' stories. I have commented on other NYT articles in the past and have watched hundreds weigh in. 132 so far on this piece is frankly disappointing and lends credence to my sense that the American people are completely out of touch with the sacrifice made by men and women in uniform and their families.
I lay the blame squarely at the feet of our political class that lacks military experience and an appreciation of the burdensome responsibility of the decision to send our armed forces to war. There is far too much armchair muscle flexing and tough talk by men and women many of whom would faint, puke or run at the sight of what these young Americans endured bravely on a daily basis. The old time term was “chickenhawks” and they have nested comfortably in DC.
So Mr. and Mrs. America the next time you hear the tocsins beating, ask your representatives a simple “why?” Ask yourselves that if the US goes to war shouldn’t all participate via activation of the draft. Look at your son or daughter and ask yourselves “is this cause worth their sacrifice?” And if you say “why should I-the armed forces are all volunteers. That’s the job they’re being paid to do”, then I say hang your head in shame.
Marines of 2/7: Semper Fidelis.
I lay the blame squarely at the feet of our political class that lacks military experience and an appreciation of the burdensome responsibility of the decision to send our armed forces to war. There is far too much armchair muscle flexing and tough talk by men and women many of whom would faint, puke or run at the sight of what these young Americans endured bravely on a daily basis. The old time term was “chickenhawks” and they have nested comfortably in DC.
So Mr. and Mrs. America the next time you hear the tocsins beating, ask your representatives a simple “why?” Ask yourselves that if the US goes to war shouldn’t all participate via activation of the draft. Look at your son or daughter and ask yourselves “is this cause worth their sacrifice?” And if you say “why should I-the armed forces are all volunteers. That’s the job they’re being paid to do”, then I say hang your head in shame.
Marines of 2/7: Semper Fidelis.
12
Donald "I'm worth 10 billion dollars" Trump is the perfect example of the man NY Times writer Matthew Hutson admires, a man who knows how to express their rage and their anger as a key to success. According to Mr. Hutson in "The Rationality of Rage",
"ANGER is a primal and destructive emotion, disrupting rational discourse and inflaming illogical passions — or so it often seems. Then again, anger also has its upsides. Expressing anger, for example, is known to be a useful tool in negotiations. Indeed, in the past few years, researchers have been learning more about when and how to deploy anger productively."
Good one, vets, get off your duffs and rationally express your anger and your rage!
Make Donald Trump, Matthew Hutson and America proud of you!
"ANGER is a primal and destructive emotion, disrupting rational discourse and inflaming illogical passions — or so it often seems. Then again, anger also has its upsides. Expressing anger, for example, is known to be a useful tool in negotiations. Indeed, in the past few years, researchers have been learning more about when and how to deploy anger productively."
Good one, vets, get off your duffs and rationally express your anger and your rage!
Make Donald Trump, Matthew Hutson and America proud of you!
2
Jon, you sound angry. Good for you for expressing it!
Best,
Matthew Hutson
Best,
Matthew Hutson
The Sunday Review
THE RATIONALITY OF RAGE
"ANGER is a primal and destructive emotion, disrupting rational discourse and inflaming illogical passions — or so it often seems. Then again, anger also has its upsides. Expressing anger, for example, is known to be a useful tool in negotiations. Indeed, in the past few years, researchers have been learning more about when and how to deploy anger productively."
Maybe this unit of veterans stalked by suicide need to try and save one another by tapping into the upside that is their anger and their rage.
The above helpful tip brought to you by the NY Times's Matthew Hutson. Yes, productively deploying anger and rage is what the world needs more of. Especially if one is a war veteran in a unit being stalked by suicide. Thank you, NY Times.
THE RATIONALITY OF RAGE
"ANGER is a primal and destructive emotion, disrupting rational discourse and inflaming illogical passions — or so it often seems. Then again, anger also has its upsides. Expressing anger, for example, is known to be a useful tool in negotiations. Indeed, in the past few years, researchers have been learning more about when and how to deploy anger productively."
Maybe this unit of veterans stalked by suicide need to try and save one another by tapping into the upside that is their anger and their rage.
The above helpful tip brought to you by the NY Times's Matthew Hutson. Yes, productively deploying anger and rage is what the world needs more of. Especially if one is a war veteran in a unit being stalked by suicide. Thank you, NY Times.
1
I don't know if have the right to ask vets for anything, but here is what I want to see.
A group of vets in uniform, attending political rallies, with simple signs. Maybe "Too many buddies killed themselves" or "PTSD killed my friend." Please stand near the press.
A group of vets in uniform, attending political rallies, with simple signs. Maybe "Too many buddies killed themselves" or "PTSD killed my friend." Please stand near the press.
5
The men on both sides of my family have served in every war this country has entered for the last 100 years. Some saw combat, some died, and some served in other ways, but none came out unscathed. I worry every day that my baby brother, having served in Desert Storm, then volunteering to go to Iraq on another tour, and then re-upping for a stint in Afghanistan, will quietly and unobtrusively decide that this life he now leads as a divorced, unemployed and depressed young man simply holds no joy. He has memories he can't share with us because when he tried our first reaction was horror; he'll never try to share his nightmares. He has joined Wounded Warriors, and he is almost ready to be a PT assistant, where he believes he can live an authentic life by helping other Vets. But then a member of his Battalion committed suicide, and I can see the pain and the questions crawl across his face. He is worthy of living, as all of you are. If nothing else, re-read Robert from Arizona's comment, especially this part:
All I can say to these and those who survived the sandbox and the angry hills of Afghanistan is that you are important. You must live. You must affirm what the politician and all those who've never "seen the elephant" don't know: human beings are not innately capable of slaughtering one another. To be forced to do so compromises our very souls.
Hold on. Reach out and lean on each other, and let your families love you!! Believe me when I tell you, they do.
All I can say to these and those who survived the sandbox and the angry hills of Afghanistan is that you are important. You must live. You must affirm what the politician and all those who've never "seen the elephant" don't know: human beings are not innately capable of slaughtering one another. To be forced to do so compromises our very souls.
Hold on. Reach out and lean on each other, and let your families love you!! Believe me when I tell you, they do.
6
Many of these men in the article are on FaceBook. Maybe your brother can look them up when he feels the need to talk. Sometimes it is easier if it is sort of anonymous. And I know they have been though hell and back. Tanner Cleveland is my son and he will talk to anyone who reaches out to him.
2
I'm saying a prayer for all of you. That you find something you love and you grab hold of it when you need a lift. And you keep yourselves safe from harm. You are important. You matter. You have things to give.
4
Every American should read this.
10
With enlistment bonuses averaging $20,000, it should come as no surprise that so many young men and women come back devastated by their experiences as soldiers. If you have to pay someone twenty grand to induce them to enlist, it's time to examine the cause for which you are recruiting.
Just a reminder that these folks were all volunteers. Did they miss the fact that those returning from Korea, Vietnam, and all the other wars after WWII were ignored by the VA and outcasts or misfits when they came home? Did they actually believe they were defending their country when they were actually defending the bottom line of a few multinational corporations? Some of the richest people in the world run the US military industrial complex and they made tons of money from the suffering of soldiers and are very well adjusted indeed.
1
I feel like killing is a human defense mechanism of sorts for living beings. When people are threatened with grave danger, the defense mechanism kicks in which provides some type of energy which allows the human being to commit an action which he or she would be likely incapable of doing to a normal human being under normal circumstances.
Soldiers have been asked to fight wars which can't be justifiably said to grave danger to the homeland from the end of world war. korea,vietnam,iraq,afghanistan(al-qaeda were the terrorists who attacked not the entire country of afghanistan). Without the presence of visible, grave threats, the defense mechanism doesn't exist. Repeating calling enemies evil and reminding about their desirableness can go only so far.
As mentioned by another commentator Stephen Rinsler, what soldiers are experiencing might be a normal human experience when asked to do the tough and difficult job of fighting without having the deeper belief/emotions that are required to fight. A spiritual crisis has happened and its a horrible thing that politicians and we as a country are asking them to keep doing it in our name while deeply damaging their psyche.
Soldiers have been asked to fight wars which can't be justifiably said to grave danger to the homeland from the end of world war. korea,vietnam,iraq,afghanistan(al-qaeda were the terrorists who attacked not the entire country of afghanistan). Without the presence of visible, grave threats, the defense mechanism doesn't exist. Repeating calling enemies evil and reminding about their desirableness can go only so far.
As mentioned by another commentator Stephen Rinsler, what soldiers are experiencing might be a normal human experience when asked to do the tough and difficult job of fighting without having the deeper belief/emotions that are required to fight. A spiritual crisis has happened and its a horrible thing that politicians and we as a country are asking them to keep doing it in our name while deeply damaging their psyche.
Too much stress placed on these young Marines.
The USA should consider bringing in Ghurka fighters to supplement
US combat units.
The USA should consider bringing in Ghurka fighters to supplement
US combat units.
Why? Are their lives any less important, to be thrown away in these useless wars?
1
No one should ever feel forgotten...
3
I am shocked that neither VA nor Services travk suicide data at all. To fail to do so and correlate with specific units served in and deployments is inexplicable and inexcusable.
What can they be thinking?!
What can they be thinking?!
1
This article was very well written and the integration of quality photos andvideo I believe, gives us "somewhat" of an idea of what pain these Marines go through.
I come from a Vietnam-era military family, live in a high military population community and teach in a school where some students and parents deal with the reality of deployed/TDYed spouses/parents, family members dealing with PTSD or, dads killed in Afghanistan. Many residents in my city have been impacted by war since the Vietnam War. Many Americans do not realize though how long-lasting the impacts of war are. How many years from nowwill we talk about the impacts still felt by our conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan? Don't forget, we still have soldiers dealing with health problems from Operation Desert Storm. I attended a meeting the VA had for ODS veterans as a concerned citizen. There were family members dealing with the suicide of their spouse, former officers talking about "lost" health files and their soldiers who suffered bizarre, inexplicable health problems.
When we send our men and women to war, we also "send" spouses, children and communities! We need to start taking this kind of action seriously and be prepared to help heal their bodies and spirits and those of the families they come home to! It's horrible that our innocent students have to deal with the impact of war!
Since the Vietnam War more services have been developed overall, but it doesn't appear as if enough has been done yet!
I come from a Vietnam-era military family, live in a high military population community and teach in a school where some students and parents deal with the reality of deployed/TDYed spouses/parents, family members dealing with PTSD or, dads killed in Afghanistan. Many residents in my city have been impacted by war since the Vietnam War. Many Americans do not realize though how long-lasting the impacts of war are. How many years from nowwill we talk about the impacts still felt by our conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan? Don't forget, we still have soldiers dealing with health problems from Operation Desert Storm. I attended a meeting the VA had for ODS veterans as a concerned citizen. There were family members dealing with the suicide of their spouse, former officers talking about "lost" health files and their soldiers who suffered bizarre, inexplicable health problems.
When we send our men and women to war, we also "send" spouses, children and communities! We need to start taking this kind of action seriously and be prepared to help heal their bodies and spirits and those of the families they come home to! It's horrible that our innocent students have to deal with the impact of war!
Since the Vietnam War more services have been developed overall, but it doesn't appear as if enough has been done yet!
5
I was not a "tough guy." Before I was drafted into the Vietnam War, I was always afraid I was going to die. The Marines are an all volunteer service that attracts "tough guys". It seems that when the "tough guys" come up against the realities of war---that everyone is afraid to die---they have more trouble dealing with it than those who were afraid to go to war. Are these guys killing themselves because they are not the "tough guys" they think they should be? Marine Corp recruiters prey on the cultural wide belief that real men should be "tough guys."
2
Your stereotypes are not accurate, or helpful.
Anything about the dead children on the other side.
Will we ever get figures about the
afghanistani dead? Or the Iraqui dead? How about them?
And now lets hear the republican candidates shriek how we must
be constantly at war, biggest army, most boots. The history is
so good on that.
follow
Will we ever get figures about the
afghanistani dead? Or the Iraqui dead? How about them?
And now lets hear the republican candidates shriek how we must
be constantly at war, biggest army, most boots. The history is
so good on that.
follow
2
Read "The War Prayer" by Mark Twain.
Twain says it all.
Twain says it all.
As a therapist that works with PTSD clients daily, I highly recommend EMDR (Eye movement desensitization and reprocessing). The world health organization has chosen EMDR and Cognitive Behavioral therapy as the treatment of choice for PTSD especially for vets. I have seen miracles in the lives of clients in short periods of time. Every vet should be required to get this treatment after serving! Find a therapist that does EMDR at Emdria.org.
Hand wringing! Talk! Congress (sic) want to shut down government over a faux issue of Planned Parenthood, while J Bush tells us his brother protected us! Government is people, now people! What am I missing? A President with fervor, concern and immediate action. Congressional leadership? We have none. Politicians babbling about 2016 elections! A hopeless indifferent media? I need be concerned with Hedge fund managers while vets suffer? Are you kidding me? Vets organizations? Bureaucrats, all. Proven worthless. Mr Obama, aside from an imminent foreign or terrorist threat, your Monday morning calls should start a massive firing of the VA heads. Leave them to their lawyers, and start acting like a leader.
1
Blowback. When you witness or commit unspeakable acts in a war which took the lives of thousands of non-combatants, guilt pours onto those ex-soldiers who still possess consciences. What one does in wars of choice apparently doesn't remain there and eats away at humans like a cancer.
2
I couldn't hold back the tears and struggled to finish this piece. I'm so angry. You have politicians in Washington who only pay lip service to veterans issues itching for another war when we have not taken care of those we sent to the last one. Trump talks about how he supports the veterans but thinks attending a military school is the same as serving. I weep for our country.
3
This is hard to read because it is so sad . Sad these young men suffered so and sad because CTE is not mentioned as a possible cause.
They chose to go to war in wars I and many Americans never supported.
They should own up to the consequences of their actions.
I'm far more concerned with helping Americans who did not help waste trillions of dollars on military adventures.
They should own up to the consequences of their actions.
I'm far more concerned with helping Americans who did not help waste trillions of dollars on military adventures.
1
"They chose to go to war in wars I and many Americans never supported. They should own up to the consequences of their actions."
While I agree that none of these of veterans fought for me even for a second, I also understand that young people are often incapable of making good decisions, like the teenager who gets drunk and then wreck his father's car. Although I blame the father (the U.S. government), the kids who are injured by their fathers' stupidity need assistance.
While I agree that none of these of veterans fought for me even for a second, I also understand that young people are often incapable of making good decisions, like the teenager who gets drunk and then wreck his father's car. Although I blame the father (the U.S. government), the kids who are injured by their fathers' stupidity need assistance.
I objected to these misadventures as well, but I'm not going to consign these people to just living with the consequences on their own. The vast majority of these guys are mid or low-level grunts. They aren't making the decisions or giving the major orders.
For some young men & women, enlisting can seem like a smart move within the context of limited choices. Not able to afford college? Serve a few years then get tuition benefits. How about guys who, 30 yrs ago, might've had a union job at a manufacturing plant and lived a middle class life with only a diploma? Not many jobs like that anymore. To a guy who wants to be doing something with his life, yet doesn't see himself as ready or desiring to start college right away, or who comes from a family with little money and few resources, the military can be very appealing - especially when they are offering signing bonuses of $20,000. There are some who enlist knowing that they can be granted citizenship later - a pretty powerful draw, for understandable reasons.
People join the military for many different reasons, good and bad, with motivations that range from the mundane to the moral. It's unfair and inaccurate to lump them all together, as though they were the architects of this debacle and now deserve a hearty "I told you so."
The people who really ought to own up to the consequences are those who've paid little or no price. Instead, it's the people far lower on the totem pole who live with the effects.
For some young men & women, enlisting can seem like a smart move within the context of limited choices. Not able to afford college? Serve a few years then get tuition benefits. How about guys who, 30 yrs ago, might've had a union job at a manufacturing plant and lived a middle class life with only a diploma? Not many jobs like that anymore. To a guy who wants to be doing something with his life, yet doesn't see himself as ready or desiring to start college right away, or who comes from a family with little money and few resources, the military can be very appealing - especially when they are offering signing bonuses of $20,000. There are some who enlist knowing that they can be granted citizenship later - a pretty powerful draw, for understandable reasons.
People join the military for many different reasons, good and bad, with motivations that range from the mundane to the moral. It's unfair and inaccurate to lump them all together, as though they were the architects of this debacle and now deserve a hearty "I told you so."
The people who really ought to own up to the consequences are those who've paid little or no price. Instead, it's the people far lower on the totem pole who live with the effects.
I have struggled with PTSD and suicide.
I have stood on the edge of a bridge with the intention of jumping.
I have held a razor blade in my hands with the intention of cutting.
Everyday I was hunted, by an unseen force, an unseen evil.
Consumed by its appetite for pain,
I was the prey.
One day instead of running, instead of hiding, I sat down alone in my room
and faced the beast,
I looked it right in its eyes.
It snarled at me, it showed me it's teeth.
It showed me the images, the reason
I should be afraid.
But as I kept staring at it,
it became afraid.
And ran away.
The next day it came back. The next day it tried again.
But each time I faced it, and each time it ran away.
Then one day it did not come back.
Although you have returned from war: You have a new enemy: it is within. The beast can no longer take the lives of others, so now it wants YOUR life. Your only hope is to turn and face it.
I have stood on the edge of a bridge with the intention of jumping.
I have held a razor blade in my hands with the intention of cutting.
Everyday I was hunted, by an unseen force, an unseen evil.
Consumed by its appetite for pain,
I was the prey.
One day instead of running, instead of hiding, I sat down alone in my room
and faced the beast,
I looked it right in its eyes.
It snarled at me, it showed me it's teeth.
It showed me the images, the reason
I should be afraid.
But as I kept staring at it,
it became afraid.
And ran away.
The next day it came back. The next day it tried again.
But each time I faced it, and each time it ran away.
Then one day it did not come back.
Although you have returned from war: You have a new enemy: it is within. The beast can no longer take the lives of others, so now it wants YOUR life. Your only hope is to turn and face it.
11
Brave man!
Beautiful!
War is a horrible thing, and these people have almost no one to share, they feel lost,forgotten by the government and abandoned by their country. We thing the war is over, but it still goes on in their hearts, that's why some of them can not bare it.
3
At the end of their service there should be a 6 month, full time debriefing type of class given. They should be paid and it should be mandatory. They should have psychological assessments, and be educated in what and why they had to do while in service. Too many feel guilty and helpless and alone when they come back. No one knows understands what they have gone through. They should also be given a special status military i.d card so they can go to any doctor or hospital asap and the government pay for it. Tricare for life as all members have after twenty year's of service. These troops have to be handled totally different than non combat veterans. Whether they were in for 6 years or 26 year's. We can save them if we want to.
16
The IAVA informs us that 22 Veterans a day are lost to suicide.THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE & DISGRACEFUL. Isn’t it critically obvious that we must continue to evaluate our Veterans decades after deployment/separation from service?
Today, the onus is on the traumatized to contact the VA.... then languish waiting for attention/treatment, in acute anguish.
Change the model!
Each branch of the Military maintains contact information to their vets, similar to what colleges do- publish alumni lists, state chapters, etc. It could incorporate Vet to Vet outreach/counseling if implemented properly. Have the VA perform intensive evaluations of our Veterans, for the remainder of their lives.
Little concern was voiced as to how “the war(s)” would be paid for. Updating & expanding the delivery model is also a cost of "the war(s)": it ain't just getting the equipment & boots on the ground! Shame on you for balking at any increase in costs to properly care for our Veterans!
Finally, (and you will not convince me otherwise) I view these multiple deployment rotations as another military-social experiment along the lines of the TUSKEGEE AIRMEN.
We did not learn the lessons taught by previous wars, especially Vietnam: it is appalling how the US cares for its newest Veterans, despite the fact that we upped the ante by exposing them to multiple repeated deployments.
Just what DID you think would happen to them?!
Today, the onus is on the traumatized to contact the VA.... then languish waiting for attention/treatment, in acute anguish.
Change the model!
Each branch of the Military maintains contact information to their vets, similar to what colleges do- publish alumni lists, state chapters, etc. It could incorporate Vet to Vet outreach/counseling if implemented properly. Have the VA perform intensive evaluations of our Veterans, for the remainder of their lives.
Little concern was voiced as to how “the war(s)” would be paid for. Updating & expanding the delivery model is also a cost of "the war(s)": it ain't just getting the equipment & boots on the ground! Shame on you for balking at any increase in costs to properly care for our Veterans!
Finally, (and you will not convince me otherwise) I view these multiple deployment rotations as another military-social experiment along the lines of the TUSKEGEE AIRMEN.
We did not learn the lessons taught by previous wars, especially Vietnam: it is appalling how the US cares for its newest Veterans, despite the fact that we upped the ante by exposing them to multiple repeated deployments.
Just what DID you think would happen to them?!
3
It is time for a paradigm shift regarding our military men and women. Suicide prevention need to start when military training starts, and Not after those fighting, come home.
8
That would require acknowledging that war is traumatic to warriors -- that will never happen. No one would join the military.
Thank you Dave Phillips and the NY Times for this thorough and moving account of a tragedy that is playing out all around us. It's heartbreaking (and criminal) that we have yet to figure out how to take care of our service members and veterans after they have selflessly sacrificed so much for us. It is pieces like this that can push the issue to the forefront of the agenda in Washington. Bravo.
For veterans struggling with post-traumatic stress, one resource is BOOTSTRAP. A home-based program that utilizes the wisdom of yoga and mindfulness to heal stress conditions caused by military combat, service members and veterans can get free access here: www.bootstrapUSA.com
For veterans struggling with post-traumatic stress, one resource is BOOTSTRAP. A home-based program that utilizes the wisdom of yoga and mindfulness to heal stress conditions caused by military combat, service members and veterans can get free access here: www.bootstrapUSA.com
3
And nobody sees, neither the media nor the political bunch,
the breath taking idiocy of the fisty, warmongering "America armed to the
teeth, and boots on the ground screamers everywhere by Republican presidential candidates?
We are not for real, apparently.
the breath taking idiocy of the fisty, warmongering "America armed to the
teeth, and boots on the ground screamers everywhere by Republican presidential candidates?
We are not for real, apparently.
2
My 83 year old neighbor came over yesterday just to chat. We got on the subject of the news and wold affairs. She stated she doesn't remember a time in her entire life when our country was not at war. (Oh, for a few months or years we were not actively engaged in war, but the background of her long life, war was singing its horrid, lurid song.)
I didn't argue as i could remember Rosevelt's sp voice on the radio announcing we are now at war and my parent's reaction to this news. It is still vivid in my mind.
So yes, why ARE we always at war? Are we just wired to fight and kill or are there other reasons we don't yet understand?. It seems we are a forever killing species.
A stunning, brilliant article NY Times.
I didn't argue as i could remember Rosevelt's sp voice on the radio announcing we are now at war and my parent's reaction to this news. It is still vivid in my mind.
So yes, why ARE we always at war? Are we just wired to fight and kill or are there other reasons we don't yet understand?. It seems we are a forever killing species.
A stunning, brilliant article NY Times.
12
Come on, you know why there is perpetual war. There is much money to be made. Period.
Max Schachtman pointed out decades ago -- in the 1950s, in fact, that the U.S. is in a "permanent war economy." Not a new idea.
For the first time in my life I completely missed my subway stop, going six past where I get off, because I was so completely focused on this article. I wish I could help these young men some way! What they go through is deeply unfair! Thankfully they have figured out the best medicine - and this I strongly believe - is what they have done, bonding together and also helping others in the group also suffering. I wish you all the very best.
12
As the wife of a former Marine, my heart breaks reading about this. I wish all of the men who are back home seek help, and fast, whether it is from the VA or a different counseling center. These men fought for their country and deserve as much peace as possible.
To all who served and dealt with combat and strife, I thank you.
To all who served and dealt with combat and strife, I thank you.
1
what did they learn that became so hard to live with? That death is not that big a deal? This is an argument for bringing back the draft. so the truth is not marginalized
“You wake up a primal part of your brain you are not supposed to listen to, and it becomes a part of you."
There really is no Hell deep, cold, and painful enough for the politician warmongers who did this to our young men in order to line their own pockets.
There really is no Hell deep, cold, and painful enough for the politician warmongers who did this to our young men in order to line their own pockets.
9
Like a pebble that creates ripples when dropped in water, it's not just these vets are hurting. There is no mention of any support for those who were left behind - the girlfriends, wives, parents, siblings. Who holds these people up? Who tells them that it's not their fault, that it's not like they were supposed to understand?
1
Never forget my blood brother Morgan Brent Haick. He wrote an essay when back from deployment at Miss State about how he was told if he did his job "wrong," investigating an insurgent who was burned alive in captivity, he'd be killed. Now he is dead, suicided months before becoming an MD at UC Davis. Whatever the truth us, it stings.
5
Please join Veterans For Peace.org
They have 5000 members, or more now. Put your energy and desire to be with your comrades to work for peace.
We have chapters in every state. We help each other while doing some good on this earth.
Thanks to you all. A 100% disabled vet here.
They have 5000 members, or more now. Put your energy and desire to be with your comrades to work for peace.
We have chapters in every state. We help each other while doing some good on this earth.
Thanks to you all. A 100% disabled vet here.
8
Thank you for your sacrifice and service.
No amount of money can fix the VA. it needs to be abolished and the employees put in a re-education camp for a couple of years. The VA is paralyized by incompetent and corrupt adminisitration, stupid and lazy unionized mid level employees and stupid and lazy unionized staffers. The appropriation is over 20K per year per enrollee. Abolish the VA and spend half that amount on each vet for the high options BCBS that congressmen and senators have from the government.
3
Best way to prevent suicide...don't send our men and women to war.
21
Best way to prevent future war...don't the entire U.S. Congress to war.
1
Are you sure?
According to Matthew Hutson in "The Rationality of Rage" in the NY Times Sunday Review, rage and anger is often the rational answers!
According to Matthew Hutson in "The Rationality of Rage" in the NY Times Sunday Review, rage and anger is often the rational answers!
And for those who nonetheless were sent in, stop promoting gun ownership as a form of personal self-realization.
My dear friend M. B. Haick supposedly committed suicide a year and a half ago. He had served tours of duty in Afghanistan and Iraq. He was an EMT, had a master's degree in biophysical engineering, and was studying to be a doctor. We would rock climb, and ski, and generally have a good old time. I lost a part of me when I realized, after moving to the east coast, that he had committed suicide. All I had was an essay he'd written while not on deployment, at a college in Mississippi, about how he'd been threatened by his superior with death if he "mishandled" the investigation he was assigned into how an insurgent had been burned alive while in captivity. He was two months from becoming a Medical Doctor, MD. His superiors had been discharged and probably joined Blackwater.
8
Didn't he pass away in 2009? Your comment piqued my curiosity, but my googling shows he lived from 1978-2009.
I am so sorry for your loss.
I am so sorry for your loss.
In the story, the author writes that the VA does not track suicides of former servicemen or women. Is this incompetence or do they just not want to face the reality of what they already know? Only 1% of Americans serve in the military. Why can't we treat them like royalty when they return or at least care so much that this story never has to be written again? Sadly, it will and it breaks my heart.
85
I'm a VietNam vet. Can I help?
Bless you for thinking to ask if you can help, especially since you served in Vietnam.
I'm not a vet, but was wondering if there aren't ways ordinary civilians (including women like me) can't help. So far, all I have come up with is pressing Congress (petitions, letters, phone calls) to take action with the VA and, possibly, with non-military hospitals and psychiatric medical personnel. Why not find a way to mandate admissions to civilian hospitals for vets and mandate a certain number of hours to be donated (pro bono) by civilian psychiatrists and other doctors for treatment of vets - or, if mandating treatment by civilians is impossible, as I think it is, then why not shift funds from the VA to the private hospitals and doctors in order to make treatment more accessible? ("Anne" in New York City suggests that there are psychotherapists who might treat vets at a reduced charge or for free.)
I'm not a vet, but was wondering if there aren't ways ordinary civilians (including women like me) can't help. So far, all I have come up with is pressing Congress (petitions, letters, phone calls) to take action with the VA and, possibly, with non-military hospitals and psychiatric medical personnel. Why not find a way to mandate admissions to civilian hospitals for vets and mandate a certain number of hours to be donated (pro bono) by civilian psychiatrists and other doctors for treatment of vets - or, if mandating treatment by civilians is impossible, as I think it is, then why not shift funds from the VA to the private hospitals and doctors in order to make treatment more accessible? ("Anne" in New York City suggests that there are psychotherapists who might treat vets at a reduced charge or for free.)
It would be great if the NYT could run a similar story about how Afghan-nationality veterans and civilians are, or are not, coping.
Not for "balance" but for human interest and cultural insight.
Not for "balance" but for human interest and cultural insight.
2
ABC's "Boston Trauma" was excellent.
They treated many drug-addicted Afghan vets who had overdose on the streets of Boston.
They treated many drug-addicted Afghan vets who had overdose on the streets of Boston.
With Americans avoiding military service in wholesale numbers these days, the chances are good that some of these soldiers should have never been sent into combat in the first place.
1
Yeah,
And Andover Prep guy cheerleaders who used daddy's juice to dodge Viet Nam like GW Bush, should BEVER have been appointed C In C.
And Andover Prep guy cheerleaders who used daddy's juice to dodge Viet Nam like GW Bush, should BEVER have been appointed C In C.
1
Maybe this is why the Taliban and Afghan fighters never stop fighting. Once you start you go crazy if you ever stop. It's like a disease that once infected you can't seem to shake.
I would be inclined to look towards more unconventional methods of healing.
Ecstasy or Ayahuasca under experienced supervision and safety could be very effective. Unfortunately in this country these types of medicines aren't legal or recognized as medicines as they are in other countries.
I would be inclined to look towards more unconventional methods of healing.
Ecstasy or Ayahuasca under experienced supervision and safety could be very effective. Unfortunately in this country these types of medicines aren't legal or recognized as medicines as they are in other countries.
1
Heartbreaking... these brave men and women sacrifice it all. Souls, emotional being, physical bodies, psychological balance. Thrown into these horrible situations where the primal takes over and then Expected to rejoin civilization without much of any support after their tours are over. SHAMEFUL that our government is so emotionally crippled and short sighted in realizing HOW essential it is to take care of these wounded warriors when they have risked all for our country as SOON as they return. EVERY solider needs some kind of 'psychological & emotional debriefing" and a support organization tin place in their community to come home to. I pray for all these brave souls and weep for those who have gone, thinking that their lives were hopeless and that no one cared.... tragic.
1
Extraordinarily sad, made me weep, feel so sorry for these victims.
My own VA story, many years ago, hurt my back. The doctor that read the xrays declared that all my internal organs were backward. I am lying there barely able to move, and he convenes an emergency conference about his discovey.
One of the doctors in the rooms opined he wsa looking at the xray backwards.
Yep.
My own VA story, many years ago, hurt my back. The doctor that read the xrays declared that all my internal organs were backward. I am lying there barely able to move, and he convenes an emergency conference about his discovey.
One of the doctors in the rooms opined he wsa looking at the xray backwards.
Yep.
2
If this quote by the chief mental health consultant isn't more evidence of a completely broken culture that requires mass layoffs, I don't know what is ["it's not our mission"....are you kidding me!?!:
"But Dr. Harold Kudler, chief mental health consultant to the department, said the military and V.A. did not share information that could allow the monitoring of combat units over time.
“Might that be a good idea? It might be a good idea,” he said. “But it’s not in our ability to achieve. It’s not our mission.”"
"But Dr. Harold Kudler, chief mental health consultant to the department, said the military and V.A. did not share information that could allow the monitoring of combat units over time.
“Might that be a good idea? It might be a good idea,” he said. “But it’s not in our ability to achieve. It’s not our mission.”"
2
When you acclimate to the honesty, commitment and genuine trust you share with your brothers in arms the behavior of people in the civilian world seems selfish, vile and downright evil by comparison and the idea of returning to a world where people like that set the rules for the way you'll be expected to live your life makes that life seem less valuable to you.
I would bet a million dollars at the core of every decision each of these Marines made to end their own lives is a set of circumstances cooked up by some banal, vapid, self-centered civilian spouse, family member, employer, etc that made the thought of "taking a dirtnap" far easier.
I would bet a million dollars at the core of every decision each of these Marines made to end their own lives is a set of circumstances cooked up by some banal, vapid, self-centered civilian spouse, family member, employer, etc that made the thought of "taking a dirtnap" far easier.
1
I'm reminded of the Marine who said "please don't thank me for my service. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/22/sunday-review/please-dont-thank-me-for...
So if I see a guy in a uniform and acknowledge him and thank him, somehow I'm the bad guy. I don't know his pain and my comment is “patriotic gloss,” according to that article.
And now we see the flip side. My intuition that war was Hell was correct and my attempt to connect with a human being was well intentioned. These men are suffering and dying.
When I tell a soldier "Thank you for your service" what I'm really saying is "I see you. Welcome home. You are valued."
Of course civilians don't actually understand what happened in the wars. And if you'd really like to be left alone with your depression and your booze and your guns, we can do that.
But maybe when someone says "Thank you for your service" you can reply "You're welcome…but you know, now we need your help" and tell them how to get engaged.
So if I see a guy in a uniform and acknowledge him and thank him, somehow I'm the bad guy. I don't know his pain and my comment is “patriotic gloss,” according to that article.
And now we see the flip side. My intuition that war was Hell was correct and my attempt to connect with a human being was well intentioned. These men are suffering and dying.
When I tell a soldier "Thank you for your service" what I'm really saying is "I see you. Welcome home. You are valued."
Of course civilians don't actually understand what happened in the wars. And if you'd really like to be left alone with your depression and your booze and your guns, we can do that.
But maybe when someone says "Thank you for your service" you can reply "You're welcome…but you know, now we need your help" and tell them how to get engaged.
1
It's not that we aren't great full for the thank you. We are its something inside that doesn't feel as we deserve it. And I only speak for myself when I say this. I look at it as it was my job just as civilians look at theirs.
Heartbreaking story. I've never experienced this tragedy, but as a Marine myself we share a common bond that will make us brothers forever. Semper Fidelis brothers. Your fellow Marines have not broken their faith with you.
"War is Hell". That saying has been around for a long time. It is still true today. These young men are seen as "expendable" by the military and our government. Anyone I speak to regarding the VA, reinforces the belief that they are vastly incompetent or just don't care. You really need to talk anyone you know, OUT of enlisting in the military.
2
I was only "on the ground" in Vietnam for 19 days or so—as long as it took my papers for a 90-day early-out to reach Saigon and back to Qui Nhon. One night, tracers flew over our Bn. HQ Detachment tents--way higher than the rounds used in Basic Training for the low crawl under barbed wire and machine-gun fire.
But I still have nightmares, some "active" enough that I awaken on my bedroom floor.
Of course I followed with interest the revelations of the fraudulent "Tonkin Gulf Incident" that sent all us draftees "to do what S. Vietnamese boys should be doing for themselves." LBJ hadn't lied, tho'—he said he wouldn't send us 10,000 miles; he sent us only 9,998 miles--we had to walk the last two.
I've also followed the ongoing revelations of "The Tragic Events of September 11, 2000 and 1" as it's come to be called this 14th anniversary of the False Flag "Op" of 9/11 and the excuse it continues to provide for 2 US invasions, 2 US occupations and Death by Presidential Drone all over the oleaginous Middle East, $2.3 Trillion (give or take, but who's counting?) Pentagon "losses," ….
But here's an idea for constructive use of our vaunted, tho' illegal, NSA dragnet spy system: Use it to save veterans returning from these illegal wars from killing themselves.
The "National Surveillance Agency" didn't "secure" us on 9/11, but maybe it could use its real-time spying to track all veterans' mental state. They've got Google plugged in, and Facebook too, if Ed Snowden has it right.
But I still have nightmares, some "active" enough that I awaken on my bedroom floor.
Of course I followed with interest the revelations of the fraudulent "Tonkin Gulf Incident" that sent all us draftees "to do what S. Vietnamese boys should be doing for themselves." LBJ hadn't lied, tho'—he said he wouldn't send us 10,000 miles; he sent us only 9,998 miles--we had to walk the last two.
I've also followed the ongoing revelations of "The Tragic Events of September 11, 2000 and 1" as it's come to be called this 14th anniversary of the False Flag "Op" of 9/11 and the excuse it continues to provide for 2 US invasions, 2 US occupations and Death by Presidential Drone all over the oleaginous Middle East, $2.3 Trillion (give or take, but who's counting?) Pentagon "losses," ….
But here's an idea for constructive use of our vaunted, tho' illegal, NSA dragnet spy system: Use it to save veterans returning from these illegal wars from killing themselves.
The "National Surveillance Agency" didn't "secure" us on 9/11, but maybe it could use its real-time spying to track all veterans' mental state. They've got Google plugged in, and Facebook too, if Ed Snowden has it right.
Whatever happened to the Marine Corps creed that no wounded are ever left behind? Where are the Officers that lead these men? How many Commissioned Officers have committed suicide? Why does the Marine Corps not keep track of the suicide former Marines?
Too many questions--not enough concern.....these young men are left adrift in a society that can't comprehend what they went through....if everyone had to share in the burden these men endured there most certainly would be more help available.
2/7 is a famous, hard fighting unit and the men of that organization deserve better from all of us....
Semper Fi
Too many questions--not enough concern.....these young men are left adrift in a society that can't comprehend what they went through....if everyone had to share in the burden these men endured there most certainly would be more help available.
2/7 is a famous, hard fighting unit and the men of that organization deserve better from all of us....
Semper Fi
2
Don't go to the VA. Seek out a psychotherapist who is either a veteran or who has lived abroad and traveled to war zones. These people (ahem) exist. Some of them may treat you for a reduced fee or even for free.
What Dr. Harold Kudler lacks in courage, he does not make up for with competence.
1
I wonder about American veteran's rate of suicide after three major wars: WWII, Vietnam and Iraq/Afghanistan. My guess --without hard data -- it has increased substantially in the recent wars of Iraq/Afghanistan.
Despite advanced psychological training techniques, soldiers continue to suffer from post traumatic stress syndrome for killing innocent old men, women and children.
Despite advanced psychological training techniques, soldiers continue to suffer from post traumatic stress syndrome for killing innocent old men, women and children.
2
From this article: "Dr. Harold Kudler, chief mental health consultant to the department, said the military and V.A. did not share information that could allow the monitoring of combat units over time.
“Might that be a good idea? It might be a good idea,” he said. “But it’s not in our ability to achieve. It’s not our mission.”
As a civilian with many family members in the military, forgive my fury when I ask: "Whose 'mission' is it?" Dr. Kudler?
We have a Pentagon bulging with over-paid generals and bureaucrats who frame statistics so this tragedy is buried, so they can glibly assert this "problem" doesn't exist. These male and female stooges are not "serving" their country. They are indulging in cowardice and laziness, on the taxpayers' dime.
Can't some of the money being poured into pork barrel projects be better spent helping veterans from high-risk units find each other on social media, coordinating unit-wide service or social events, and connecting with therapists better-equipped to work with the aftermath of their combat experience?
I would like to conclude with the words of a respected combat veteran: "I hope my own children never have to fight a war. Friends disappearing, lives being extinguished. It's just not right." -- George Bush, Sr.
George Bush, Jr., on whose watch 9/11 happened, left our nation trillions of dollars in debt, further de-stabilized the Middle East, and fattened Halliburton's coffers while destroying the lives of many fine young men.
“Might that be a good idea? It might be a good idea,” he said. “But it’s not in our ability to achieve. It’s not our mission.”
As a civilian with many family members in the military, forgive my fury when I ask: "Whose 'mission' is it?" Dr. Kudler?
We have a Pentagon bulging with over-paid generals and bureaucrats who frame statistics so this tragedy is buried, so they can glibly assert this "problem" doesn't exist. These male and female stooges are not "serving" their country. They are indulging in cowardice and laziness, on the taxpayers' dime.
Can't some of the money being poured into pork barrel projects be better spent helping veterans from high-risk units find each other on social media, coordinating unit-wide service or social events, and connecting with therapists better-equipped to work with the aftermath of their combat experience?
I would like to conclude with the words of a respected combat veteran: "I hope my own children never have to fight a war. Friends disappearing, lives being extinguished. It's just not right." -- George Bush, Sr.
George Bush, Jr., on whose watch 9/11 happened, left our nation trillions of dollars in debt, further de-stabilized the Middle East, and fattened Halliburton's coffers while destroying the lives of many fine young men.
6
Val in Brooklyn, NY. in case I forgot. Mr. Bojorquez, you said "no second guessing." I repeat , you did what you had to do to survive.
Shame on those here who victim-blame the soldiers.
I echo Heather in saying, shame on Dr. Harold Kundler. He should be fired
and stripped of his pension. And, the bottom line, of course, is the Oval Office and Congress. The current and previous administrations. Except for WWII, no excuse whatsoever. Obama, Bush I, Bush II, and those (well) before WWII. Our taxes are being exploited for death, madness, and to be respectful and fair--the destruction of lives, etc., wherever we invade-intrude in the world.
Shame on those here who victim-blame the soldiers.
I echo Heather in saying, shame on Dr. Harold Kundler. He should be fired
and stripped of his pension. And, the bottom line, of course, is the Oval Office and Congress. The current and previous administrations. Except for WWII, no excuse whatsoever. Obama, Bush I, Bush II, and those (well) before WWII. Our taxes are being exploited for death, madness, and to be respectful and fair--the destruction of lives, etc., wherever we invade-intrude in the world.
The 2002 invasion of Iraq was sanctioned by the UN and over 100 countries. Remember Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait years before. Saddam used chemical weapons, yes WMD's on his own people (The Kurds) The Democrats and its supporters hate what America stands for and will do anything they can to destroy our Constitution and way of life. The loath our military, just ask Bill Clinton. They run on helping the little guy and complain about the VA not ddoing their job only when a Republican is POTUS. Barack Husein Obama ran his campaign telling his supportors how badd Bush treated our military and promised if he was elected he would fix the VA. Well 8 years later after the Democrats gutted our military and pulled all US troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan the middle east is a hell on earth. Russia is advancing and invading sovereign country's, and the Muslims are creating their dreamed of caliphate. The VA is hell on earth for our injured military and Obama and the Democrats do nothing. The press has virtually been silent. The press will again bang the drum only when a Republican is elected POTUS and blame the Republican for the sick mess they created.
I find it bizarre and ironic that you posted such a comment on the virtual pages of a newspaper with the embarrassing and shameful distinction of having published countless articles by Judith Miller, wherein the drumbeat was actually one using false, incomplete, and/or misleading information that helped promote and legitimize what turned out to be abysmal intelligence.
This is sadly a shame to us all.a failure of are country.vets now come home to,unlike previous conflicts,low pay jobs,in abundance.odd scheduling by employers,single life,divorce in astounding #s,mental illness,a country in contradiction,what they return too offers little to put energy into.its seen as useless,counterproductive, if not sickening in itself.so lonely,broken,no use,they take there lives.if we offered jobs,of hire pay,better,more normal,healthy scheduling,a shot to succeed in all aspects of life, it would obviously elviate there pressure. But we don't ,we as a country offer walmart',management!. How worthy of such warrior's!. And sadly how worthy of us all.i blame this on the new world order of things.it is after all what are piltics is all ll about.
1
I salute each and every veteran out there past and current. The doggone VA( Veterans Administration) has an ultimate responsibility to take care of each and every veteran period! President Obama signed into law to " expedite the process" of veterans applying for Disability. Every single American stands behind our veterans 100% because without these true heroes freedom would not exist! Thank u to all and may the veterans get the true benefits they deserve from the Federal Government period!!!!!
1
Why not everyone that reads this article just think of what you can do so that this feeling of helplessness be stopped as well as addressed by the best minds in this country!! I lose my best friend that served with the 7th Marines Buddy Ray Martin 7/10/67 and then I was hit 02/18/68 go figure !!!
S/F
Dave
battleforhue.com
S/F
Dave
battleforhue.com
Dear President Obama - This is part of your legacy. Please DO SOMETHING before you leave office. A standard bureaucratic task force won't cut it. Call the Joint Chiefs into your office, and set up a special team to work out both an IMMEDIATE and long term plan of action. Draft one of our country's excellent computer companies to help fix the VA system. And for goodness sake, send investigators out to talk to these men to find out which VA Hospitals let them down. Prove to our veterans...plus the men and women you have personally put in harm's way...that the greatest country on earth will not abandon them.
5
This isn't just Obama's legacy. These guys went in 2008. It is the USA legacy.
1
Pete - Understood. And you're right: our entire country bears the responsibility. Taking care of our veterans is a non-partisan issue. But President Obama is the one sitting in the Oval Office. He's the one ultimately responsible for the VA, and he's the one empowered to take action. That's all I meant by my comments.
Wars are the most horrible event mankind can participate in. Aggressive warfare is the worst of the worst. Keep sending Americans to fight and kill for no reason but "because freedom isn't free" and you will keep seeing the tragedy of broken soldiers returning to only take their own lives.
4
"With the Pentagon focused on the surge in Iraq, equipment was scant."
This is a travesty, the entire Iraq war was needless and has done more damage than can be fathomed. Meanwhile, the Bush, Cheney and Rumsfelds of the world sent these Americans into a firestorm without what they needed, gave them an impossible job to do, and then to top it all off the VA abandons them when they need help.
I am sickened by the whole lot of these chicken hawk bunch of clowns from
the GOP. They are ready to send other people's sons and daughters into Iran. Please stop them America. The leader of the pack of fools says his military school for spoiled brats was the same as what these true heroes and patriots have done for our country. He also thinks Mexican Americans who's sons and brothers have died for our country are criminals who should be deported.
My father fought in the 2nd Marines during Vietnam. He was one of the first CO's at 29 Palms. It appalls me to think of these young men having no one to turn to but themselves for help. I cry for them and their families.
This is a travesty, the entire Iraq war was needless and has done more damage than can be fathomed. Meanwhile, the Bush, Cheney and Rumsfelds of the world sent these Americans into a firestorm without what they needed, gave them an impossible job to do, and then to top it all off the VA abandons them when they need help.
I am sickened by the whole lot of these chicken hawk bunch of clowns from
the GOP. They are ready to send other people's sons and daughters into Iran. Please stop them America. The leader of the pack of fools says his military school for spoiled brats was the same as what these true heroes and patriots have done for our country. He also thinks Mexican Americans who's sons and brothers have died for our country are criminals who should be deported.
My father fought in the 2nd Marines during Vietnam. He was one of the first CO's at 29 Palms. It appalls me to think of these young men having no one to turn to but themselves for help. I cry for them and their families.
3
I don't know how else to say this, but Dianetics or Scientology can effectively help these suffering veterans. Please try to overlook negative reports in the media. Find your way to a Dianetics or Scientology center and you will find effective help, even for deeply traumatized veterans. They know what they are doing. Please.
Very sad, and horrible, of course. But bottom line -- we killed more of them than they did of us + those who killed themselves, right? I mean, that's what it's about, right? That and all the 'glory' and 'thrill of battle' ?? No one less than 50 years old should have to fight wars. That might change things.
This is heart-wrenching. It reminds me of the husband of one of my friends who went to Vietnam and upon his return was never right mentally. Too bad stories like this have little or no effect on war hawks in our government who continually advocate "boots on the ground " in Syria and Iraq.
5
Wake up calls.
You get in your Chevrolet and turn on the ignition.
Or, in another American dream, you sign up for the marines. Friends, family and strangers pat you on the back.
Flag, Anthem, Action: You become a part in a fighting machine and are sent by draft-dodgers in power (W, Cheney, Wolfowitz and Perle) 7000 miles away to kill religious fanatics.
That's not difficult because you are a ROBO soldier with all the technology American companies can sell to the Department of Defense, which is also not difficult.
It doesn't go well.
The poster child for you, Pat Tillman, a pro for the Cardinals in the NFL, is killed by his own men. The draft dodgers cover that up as long as they can.
(And if he'd come back as a Democratic war hero and run for office, they probably would have claimed he hadn't been shot at, like they did to Kerry)
You arrive back in America, with less than you left with. There's no cheering, the anthem sounds phony, your VA hospital just wants to get rid of you. It's nothing new, It happened to Vietnam veterans.
All you want to do wash the blood off your hands and salvage your life.
Welcome to the real USA. An icy bath has woken you from a fake American dream. Face this truth: The only person looking after you is You. And Your mission is to survive, the same as it always was.
Meanwhile, the still rich and powerful draft dodgers sell books and paint. All the Republican candidates talk tough. The crowds cheer.
Warn others. Good luck...
You get in your Chevrolet and turn on the ignition.
Or, in another American dream, you sign up for the marines. Friends, family and strangers pat you on the back.
Flag, Anthem, Action: You become a part in a fighting machine and are sent by draft-dodgers in power (W, Cheney, Wolfowitz and Perle) 7000 miles away to kill religious fanatics.
That's not difficult because you are a ROBO soldier with all the technology American companies can sell to the Department of Defense, which is also not difficult.
It doesn't go well.
The poster child for you, Pat Tillman, a pro for the Cardinals in the NFL, is killed by his own men. The draft dodgers cover that up as long as they can.
(And if he'd come back as a Democratic war hero and run for office, they probably would have claimed he hadn't been shot at, like they did to Kerry)
You arrive back in America, with less than you left with. There's no cheering, the anthem sounds phony, your VA hospital just wants to get rid of you. It's nothing new, It happened to Vietnam veterans.
All you want to do wash the blood off your hands and salvage your life.
Welcome to the real USA. An icy bath has woken you from a fake American dream. Face this truth: The only person looking after you is You. And Your mission is to survive, the same as it always was.
Meanwhile, the still rich and powerful draft dodgers sell books and paint. All the Republican candidates talk tough. The crowds cheer.
Warn others. Good luck...
31
I don't know how to get a copy of your [email protected] if you could. Thanks for the honesty. Roger
I am a psychiatrist with 20 years' experience treating PTSD. I took a job at the Tucson VA in August 2014 inheriting 541 patients. 60-70% my patients had ACTIVE PTSD: 3-4 hours of sleep wracked by nightmares, physical and mental pain, suicidal thoughts, uncontrollable agitation and rage. Many were Vietnam Vets who shop at Wal-Mart at 3am, to avoid an encounter that could trip the hair-trigger on their anger. Younger Vets were terrified and humiliated they couldn't work and provide for their families. I calculated it would take 3-4 months to see everyone ONCE. Typically followup appointments couldn't even be scheduled because the VA system only books 3 months out. I was part of the VA's public relations claim of "ACCESS to care." See the Vet, make the numbers. Click all the performance measures. I have emails to prove no one wanted to know if the care was helping. With 20 minutes all I could do was listen, show respect, and communicate that I cared. "Treatment" requires much more TIME. The VA is an insult to Veterans, who are justifiably angry and disgusted. The euphemisms of "Veteran-centered care" plastered on posters are OFFENSIVE. My 92 year old father loves his VA doctor; but he's healthy. The VA is desperately FAILING Vets with PTSD. I don't know how we can provide Veterans with the care they deserve, but I suspect it will have to be outside the VA system. It breaks my heart that I resigned after five months; but my heart remains with the Vets
45
Well, it's government healthcare...I thought that was supposed to be the BEST, right?
But seriously you need to keep telling people about your experience. People need to know how our federal government is failing the vets.
But seriously you need to keep telling people about your experience. People need to know how our federal government is failing the vets.
You provide an excellent reason why the VA has trouble recruiting psychiatrists. It offers administrative headaches and not especially good pay. There is such a shortage of psychiatrists in this country that they don't need to work there. If the VA was really serious about treating mental illness, it would substantially raise the salaries of its psychiatrists to something like it pays surgeons.
Sierra -- if I knew how to reach you directly I would do so. I am a Rehabilitation Clinical Nurse Specialist who has also worked inpatient psych. (I am presently retired.) I live in Tucson & have friends at the VA. When I taught in the U of A College of Nursing I had students in a VA clinic. When the U of A theatre arts dept. performed "A Piece of My Heart," a play about women in Vietnam, I got a grant to pay my students admission & monitored a panel of R.N.s who had served in Vietnam & in the hospitals in Japan to which wounded men were sent. I interviewed some R.N. vets who were patients in the psych unit secondary to their PTSD and asked them to speak with the students. One said she was too ashamed of what had happened to her to face the students (!) but wrote a statement for me to read to them. The R.N. who shared her living quarters for their MASH unit was gang raped in the showers -- by the military surgeons with whom she worked during the day. I believe that the VA had group therapy for these women vets, but that may have been only on the inpatient unit. I would think that the obvious approach when you were working there would have been group therapy. These vets, both male and female, have been used to working as part of a group; they have shared experiences and understand better than their therapists the conditions under which they served. Why, after all these decades of experience with the beneficial effects of groups doesn't the VA use it?
Not a day has gone by that I have not thought about and prayed for each one of you since we walked off the parade deck at 29 Palms in December 2008. The greatest honor I will ever have, in my 25 years of service, is to be able to say I was your chaplain. The nation owes you, and a few others like you, much more than you will receive; look for your reward in the eyes of your smiling children and in the hand shakes of old men at parades- you are "sheep dogs" in a nation of sheep. But know this, you are loved.
Deus Praeordinatus Cohortem
Russell Hale
LCDR, CHC, USN
Battalion Chaplain
2d Battalion, 7th Marines
2007-2010
Deus Praeordinatus Cohortem
Russell Hale
LCDR, CHC, USN
Battalion Chaplain
2d Battalion, 7th Marines
2007-2010
12
Sack all the existing VA therapists, their managers and the fat cats who run the show. Replace every one of them with combat vets who have had first hand experience of the trauma of battle.
1
Ah, the Donald Trump "Celebrity Apprentice" solution.
"You're fired."
No wonder Donald Trump may be our next president.
"You're fired."
No wonder Donald Trump may be our next president.
I'm a disabled Vet Nam vet and we know what they are going thru. You get this mentally and it never goes away. You cant turn it off you can only try to contain it. Sometimes anything can set it off, a cloud pattern, a breeze, a smell, a word, ANYTHING. You cant control it. You cant even explain it, its just part of you. We ask them to go fight our wars and then you forget about them. I have a lot of pride and respect for each and every one of them. DO SOMETHING FOR THEM.
3
The VA thinks in terms like "The therapies, considered by the department to be the gold standard of evidence-based treatments ...". Gold Standard? One size fits all?
This article suggests to me that a treatment that may be effective among many troops with less combat experience might be ineffective among groups at higher risk due to extremes of multiple combat experiences. One reason might be that such people know that outsiders do not understand them. Those not in Helmand, not in Korengal, not in Fallujah. How do you treat a patient who feels different from others because he or she really is different?
If a soldier lost a limb, we know a lot about how to treat that. What if their service to us causes them to feel they have lost part of their soul? That is not just a medication issue.
All I can say to them from my own personal experience to such soldiers is that when you take your own life your pain does not stop. Your pain is instead given to your family, your children and your friends to suffer in your stead. For that reason, please, please do not. Please find another path.
This article suggests to me that a treatment that may be effective among many troops with less combat experience might be ineffective among groups at higher risk due to extremes of multiple combat experiences. One reason might be that such people know that outsiders do not understand them. Those not in Helmand, not in Korengal, not in Fallujah. How do you treat a patient who feels different from others because he or she really is different?
If a soldier lost a limb, we know a lot about how to treat that. What if their service to us causes them to feel they have lost part of their soul? That is not just a medication issue.
All I can say to them from my own personal experience to such soldiers is that when you take your own life your pain does not stop. Your pain is instead given to your family, your children and your friends to suffer in your stead. For that reason, please, please do not. Please find another path.
8
OMG, who can read this without despair for these men?? It's appalling what NOT the VA is doing! It's criminal! It's UnAmetican. No more adjectives. And, Barack Obama? What is he doing?? Shake up the whole organization! This is THE number one priority in our country. These men need so much care and support and love! How can this administration be so callous and disinterested as to avoid the obvious? Obama....STOP making speeches all over the country and world. DO something!! Act, React! Feel! Address the VA problem!, Now!
1
Going to war is a very serious matter. A fake war is even more serious. Thank you Mr. Cheney, Mr. Rumsfeld and Mr. Bush for all the endless pain.....
8
Old, atheist, female. So take what I say with a big grain of salt, but one paragraph sticks out to me: The one about that "Gold Standard" therapy where one constantly "revisits" the "trauma".
But isn't that the problem? These men are constantly reliving the trauma, every hour, every day, every night in their dreams. That is what is exhausting them. Saying it is vital, yes, and say it all, but every person of trauma, sooner or later, runs into that moment where they mentally groan and think, "Again? That's the 50th time in a row. Can't you pull something else out of the hat?"
And, is there something else that is being offered? Sure - drugs.... I groaned in sympathy for Bojorquez who said, "No drugs", so they handed him a bag of drugs! Another time and place and that could be real funny. But I'm not laughing.
I'm proud of the men who have set up their networks. That's innovative and smart, a true Gold standard of involvement, total common sense. Those are the new weapons needed, especially common sense, an under-rated skill. It was what got you through the madness: it's what keeps you going now. Value it. Make a new spread sheet on what works. Study the patterns. Sooner or later there will be a body of information to start drawing on.
Become old men, that's what I wish for you. This article was agonizing and the last part gave me true hope that you're pulling a really new rabbit out of that hat. I wish the very best for you.
But isn't that the problem? These men are constantly reliving the trauma, every hour, every day, every night in their dreams. That is what is exhausting them. Saying it is vital, yes, and say it all, but every person of trauma, sooner or later, runs into that moment where they mentally groan and think, "Again? That's the 50th time in a row. Can't you pull something else out of the hat?"
And, is there something else that is being offered? Sure - drugs.... I groaned in sympathy for Bojorquez who said, "No drugs", so they handed him a bag of drugs! Another time and place and that could be real funny. But I'm not laughing.
I'm proud of the men who have set up their networks. That's innovative and smart, a true Gold standard of involvement, total common sense. Those are the new weapons needed, especially common sense, an under-rated skill. It was what got you through the madness: it's what keeps you going now. Value it. Make a new spread sheet on what works. Study the patterns. Sooner or later there will be a body of information to start drawing on.
Become old men, that's what I wish for you. This article was agonizing and the last part gave me true hope that you're pulling a really new rabbit out of that hat. I wish the very best for you.
15
I know the need is great, so here is one more small resource for military veterans. There is an organization of civilian mental health providers who will provide confidential, no cost treatment for veterans. It is called Give and Hour and can be found at giveanhour.org
1
I picked up my phone this morning and for some Blessed reason I did not even have to turn it on, there it was on my phone like a message from above, the article I just read with my heartbreaking. And I was so ashamed. Of myself, who has been diagnosed as having PTSD, getting therapy, taking to much medications to hide from the pain and anger of my past. Of my government, for the lack of help these men and women have to face. Grateful that my son, for the first time was not eligible to serve a counrty that I have always been so proud of. Proud enough to include our Flag into my only tattoo that also has my son's initials woven in. He is 28. I am aching for all these soldiers and their families for the hell they are going through. I know there must be a way for me to be there for them, and I promise I will find some way to volunteer or help.I openly apologize to all of you for being branded with a label that I have no right to carry. I am on Facebook, as well as my email, if you just feel like you need a mother to vent to, PLEASE use me, I promise not to judge or try to offer advice that I know nothing about. God bless you. Thank you to the author of this article, you may have helped more than you thought you might. Vanessa Bennington
2
This should be sent to all members of Congress and the House. Let them go visit the local VA and see the faces of those who have gave the most, living daily in recurring nightmares.
Having helped a list of veterans a mile long I can tell you this. The general public has no chance in helping these men cope. You haven't seen the things they have seen, you can't know the things they have experienced and they will not open up to you about it. Even men who served during the same periods of time, in different units, branches of service or "jobs" don't communicate about these things because while they respect one another, they can't know the things they know.
These guys have to face this threat as they have the others they have experienced; together. They have to commit to one another that they will make sure they make it through this; together. They have to also accept that they will suffer losses as well. This is the legacy of war, especially wars of no good purpose. Most have accepted that they were there defending each other no matter what the PR and politicians say, because that is what it always comes down to; the same needs to hold true now for these men. The mission hasn't changed just because you are home; keep each other alive. "Well adjusted" Viet-Nam vets can do a lot of good here, but you know what that will mean for you too. I really believe you hold the key to helping these men cope with the realities of war.
Vet's know what I just said is spot on. Video game heads, fans of war porn, and people who fantasize about the reasons and reality of war will probably take issue with it.
These guys have to face this threat as they have the others they have experienced; together. They have to commit to one another that they will make sure they make it through this; together. They have to also accept that they will suffer losses as well. This is the legacy of war, especially wars of no good purpose. Most have accepted that they were there defending each other no matter what the PR and politicians say, because that is what it always comes down to; the same needs to hold true now for these men. The mission hasn't changed just because you are home; keep each other alive. "Well adjusted" Viet-Nam vets can do a lot of good here, but you know what that will mean for you too. I really believe you hold the key to helping these men cope with the realities of war.
Vet's know what I just said is spot on. Video game heads, fans of war porn, and people who fantasize about the reasons and reality of war will probably take issue with it.
2
They are 'frustrated' by the VA? They should be furious, at our government which runs the VA. Anyone with their eyes open understands the whole war propaganda thing (i.e., The Few. The Proud. The Marines.) Give me a break.
The govt. preys on vulnerable people who eat up the whole patriotic thing like apple pie, and who believe everything the govt. says about 'protecting our borders' or 'restoring democracy to far-away lands'. It's very hard to get through all the subtrefuge to know what's really going on...what are really the US' motives. But history has shown us repeatedly that the US govt., like so many others, has their own motives for getting involved, and will paint our citizens a rosy altruistic picture,in order to try and get us on board. And then, only later, does the real truth come out. War and all the industry that goes along with it is a huge money-maker for the country as a whole.
I'm against getting involved in wars, or starting wars, where the true purposes are other than what is told us. And I'm no fan of people who enlist out of pure ignorance or generic patriotism. That said however, all those who fought at our govt's behest should be fuming mad to see time and again that they and their brethren are used and then chewed up and spit out by the very govt who, when they needed their services, gave nothing but lip service about how much our country 'valued' them and their sacrifice. It's an absolute disgrace!
The govt. preys on vulnerable people who eat up the whole patriotic thing like apple pie, and who believe everything the govt. says about 'protecting our borders' or 'restoring democracy to far-away lands'. It's very hard to get through all the subtrefuge to know what's really going on...what are really the US' motives. But history has shown us repeatedly that the US govt., like so many others, has their own motives for getting involved, and will paint our citizens a rosy altruistic picture,in order to try and get us on board. And then, only later, does the real truth come out. War and all the industry that goes along with it is a huge money-maker for the country as a whole.
I'm against getting involved in wars, or starting wars, where the true purposes are other than what is told us. And I'm no fan of people who enlist out of pure ignorance or generic patriotism. That said however, all those who fought at our govt's behest should be fuming mad to see time and again that they and their brethren are used and then chewed up and spit out by the very govt who, when they needed their services, gave nothing but lip service about how much our country 'valued' them and their sacrifice. It's an absolute disgrace!
I need to tell you as a faithful reader of the NYT but as a disabled vet myself as was my father, both of us being active users of the VA medical system, that this article (starting with the headline) I believe unfairly saddles the VA with the blame. VA is not perfect and it's had terrible issues with managing the huge number of new vets wanting evaluation to enter the system as a result of Gen S. allowing vets to finally address their agent orange issues and the devastation of the middle east debacles. But, once in the system the care for my dad and myself has been pretty incredible and we both have had some significant issues. The terrible problem these young people are experiencing absolutely breaks my heart because as a career officer and a former commander I love and respect the young folks who do this for us but but I believe as a society we have failed them and it's a much bigger issue than just a failure of the VA. (See follow on comment.)
6
Every six months or so, we read stories like this, about veterans who have given up and about the large number of suicides by former soldiers who served in Iraq and Afghanistan. We also repeatedly learn about the inadequacy of the VA's treatment of soldiers with PTSD. Such a tragic waste of life, on all sides. It's encouraging to see that soldiers have set up their own system, helping each other out in crisis. I have heard of many vets burdened with the side effects of the drugs prescribed to them by the VA. I have also heard from various vet groups how many vets are using medical marijuana as a treatment for PTSD with no side effects and/or long term damage. Of course this isn't so easy when you live in a state where it's illegal, which is most of the country. However soldiers cope with their past experiences in war, it is imperative that the government step in and give them what they need through the VA. The VA needs to help people, not hinder them in their search for help.If we have enough money to send people to war, we need to be damn sure that there's money and treatment for them when they get back to this country. The war on terror has been a dismal failure with no clear end. The ongoing war within, that these young people are fighting every day to just survive, is the war we need to win.
4
This one sentence probably says it all
....."There was no one there for me", Mr.Gerard said in a quiet voice"...
I hope VA hears the scream in that quiet voice.
I think there are quite a few ideas suggested in this article that VA can take cues from and develop lasting solutions -
1) like that of therapeutic relief from PTSD through volunteer work of "Team Rubcion" started by Mr.Wood.
2) The informal network and intervention program through Google Spreadsheets and social networking sites started by Mr.Branch.
3) organic farms to help heal by growing food.
Looks like VA does not need more psychiatrists but more social workers who can actively seek out veterans who reported issues with PTSD and start listening to them.
....."There was no one there for me", Mr.Gerard said in a quiet voice"...
I hope VA hears the scream in that quiet voice.
I think there are quite a few ideas suggested in this article that VA can take cues from and develop lasting solutions -
1) like that of therapeutic relief from PTSD through volunteer work of "Team Rubcion" started by Mr.Wood.
2) The informal network and intervention program through Google Spreadsheets and social networking sites started by Mr.Branch.
3) organic farms to help heal by growing food.
Looks like VA does not need more psychiatrists but more social workers who can actively seek out veterans who reported issues with PTSD and start listening to them.
1
(Follow on from my previous comments.)
Among our failures: 1) recognizing the terrible costs of wars on the mental as well as the physical well being of those participating in it - all wars in including WWI and II, Korea and Vietnam have produced their victims. 2) We as a society (though our elected representatives) have failed to adequately fund research into the problem. For example, via the NIH which has world-class researchers but is as we speak, is experiencing severe unfunding. And 3) inadequate funding for medical institutions to support these vets; the VA being the primary one. It is extremely expensive to run a first-class medical system but rather than spend what it takes to do this many congressmen think the VA is just incompetent(which I believe it is not more so than you'd find in any private medical system that would be required to fund it'self on a year -to-year basis and on a relative shoestring (which of course, results in cases of inferior staffing, both in sheer numbers and ability.
Among our failures: 1) recognizing the terrible costs of wars on the mental as well as the physical well being of those participating in it - all wars in including WWI and II, Korea and Vietnam have produced their victims. 2) We as a society (though our elected representatives) have failed to adequately fund research into the problem. For example, via the NIH which has world-class researchers but is as we speak, is experiencing severe unfunding. And 3) inadequate funding for medical institutions to support these vets; the VA being the primary one. It is extremely expensive to run a first-class medical system but rather than spend what it takes to do this many congressmen think the VA is just incompetent(which I believe it is not more so than you'd find in any private medical system that would be required to fund it'self on a year -to-year basis and on a relative shoestring (which of course, results in cases of inferior staffing, both in sheer numbers and ability.
Where are the war mongering GOP Congressman when our soldiers come back and still face the fight of their life? Where are these so called good Americans?
The very Congressman that are so quick to send our soldiers to war are "MIA' when it comes to turning around the VA and helping our suffering soldiers.
When real problems face Congressman, they slink away to the tawdry hotel ballrooms to raise money to stay in office.
To be clear, Congress loves to start wars but does not have the stomach to deal with the consequences of war!
The very Congressman that are so quick to send our soldiers to war are "MIA' when it comes to turning around the VA and helping our suffering soldiers.
When real problems face Congressman, they slink away to the tawdry hotel ballrooms to raise money to stay in office.
To be clear, Congress loves to start wars but does not have the stomach to deal with the consequences of war!
6
The war mongering GOP congressman are laughing all the way to the bank.
But just to be fair, Hillary Clinton supported, and still supports, Bush on Iraq, either because 1) she is hopelessly stupid, 2) she is hopelessly cynical, or 3) she is both 1 and 2.
But just to be fair, Hillary Clinton supported, and still supports, Bush on Iraq, either because 1) she is hopelessly stupid, 2) she is hopelessly cynical, or 3) she is both 1 and 2.
This is such a sad story. When do we stop sending our brave soldiers into wars that can't be won? Only when the politicians that appropriate money also have to go on the front lines for a tour of duty. If they are too old or frail then send all their children and all their grandchildren in their place. If they do not have any family to sacrifice they can't vote to send others. I know no other way to make our chicken heart politicians share the pain.
Draft deferment/dodgers should not be allowed to send others to war when they opted out when their name was called.
Draft deferment/dodgers should not be allowed to send others to war when they opted out when their name was called.
6
A TRICARE clinic saved my life when I was intensely suicidal and suffering from CPTSD, depression, and anxiety. If one saved my life (and continues to save it), surely it has saved (and is saving others'). Carrying this thought further, surely other clinics are saving other suicidal people. So some clinics and some psychiatrists in military medicine know how to treat suicidal people successfully.
And some commenters have said some VA facilities are doing a good job.
It doesn't take a degree in health care administration or a therapy-related degree to know it's lethal to tell a veteran to wait a month for an appointment or to say "get over it; it's like a bad breakup." Or to leave a newly hospitalized, suicidal patient waiting and waiting to see a doctor. These situations can feel like torture to a suicidal patient and further alienate him/her from the rest of humanity.
It's not what happened before; it's how the veteran is treated NOW that determines whether he or she is going to live or die. It sounds like a large part of the VA needs to be doing the jobs these veterans are doing and let the veterans run the VA.
And some commenters have said some VA facilities are doing a good job.
It doesn't take a degree in health care administration or a therapy-related degree to know it's lethal to tell a veteran to wait a month for an appointment or to say "get over it; it's like a bad breakup." Or to leave a newly hospitalized, suicidal patient waiting and waiting to see a doctor. These situations can feel like torture to a suicidal patient and further alienate him/her from the rest of humanity.
It's not what happened before; it's how the veteran is treated NOW that determines whether he or she is going to live or die. It sounds like a large part of the VA needs to be doing the jobs these veterans are doing and let the veterans run the VA.
2
I'm curious as to how many of the GOP candidates participating in Wednesday's debate are military veterans? I ask this, because they all seem eager to start WWIII.
12
Zero of the 11 in the prime-time debate...totaling more than approx. 500 combined years of non-military service and experience. And probably triple that number of combined non-service years if you count their children's military absenteeism. Quite an impressive record for these war experts and their families. For the Junior Varsity team debate, of the four participants, Lindsay Graham served as a lawyer in the Army.
Lindsey Graham is the only GOP candidate who's a veteran. He was a Colonel but it was a Stateside reserve position that required him to do little or nothing.
Trump and Carson both miraculously avoided the Viet Nam draft.
Not one of the others on that stage has ever won a uniform. The pimps for perpetual war ain't never been. Reagan, Bush, Rove, Romney, Limbaugh, Cheney, Bolton, Gingrich, Quayle, John Wayne, Wayne La Pierre, Perry, Kristol, et alii.
1st Aviation Brigade
USARV
Da Nang 69-70
Not one of the others on that stage has ever won a uniform. The pimps for perpetual war ain't never been. Reagan, Bush, Rove, Romney, Limbaugh, Cheney, Bolton, Gingrich, Quayle, John Wayne, Wayne La Pierre, Perry, Kristol, et alii.
1st Aviation Brigade
USARV
Da Nang 69-70
I'm not a psychologist or anything, but it seems that the help line that they've built for themselves might be contributing to the trend. A closely knit unit will tend to share all of the details below, as shown in the article. It seems that any help and therapy should take this into consideration.
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00031539.htm
Suicide Contagion and the Reporting of Suicide: Recommendations from a National Workshop
ASPECTS OF NEWS COVERAGE THAT CAN PROMOTE SUICIDE CONTAGION
Clinicians, researchers, and other health professionals at the workshop agreed that to minimize the likelihood of suicide contagion, reporting should be concise and factual. Although scientific research in this area is not complete, workshop participants believed that the likelihood of suicide contagion may be increased by the following actions:
• Presenting simplistic explanations for suicide.
• Engaging in repetitive, ongoing, or excessive reporting of suicide in the news.
• Providing sensational coverage of suicide.
• Reporting "how-to" descriptions of suicide.
• Presenting suicide as a tool for accomplishing certain ends.
• Glorifying suicide or persons who commit suicide.
• Focusing on the suicide completer's positive characteristics.
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00031539.htm
Suicide Contagion and the Reporting of Suicide: Recommendations from a National Workshop
ASPECTS OF NEWS COVERAGE THAT CAN PROMOTE SUICIDE CONTAGION
Clinicians, researchers, and other health professionals at the workshop agreed that to minimize the likelihood of suicide contagion, reporting should be concise and factual. Although scientific research in this area is not complete, workshop participants believed that the likelihood of suicide contagion may be increased by the following actions:
• Presenting simplistic explanations for suicide.
• Engaging in repetitive, ongoing, or excessive reporting of suicide in the news.
• Providing sensational coverage of suicide.
• Reporting "how-to" descriptions of suicide.
• Presenting suicide as a tool for accomplishing certain ends.
• Glorifying suicide or persons who commit suicide.
• Focusing on the suicide completer's positive characteristics.
1
The article reminded me of Jeb Bush's words about his brother: he kept us safe.
But it also turned my thoughts to the local population in Afghanistan and Iraq - and now Syria. They live in the middle of it day and night, but they don't have any specialists to turn to for help.
War is hell.
But it also turned my thoughts to the local population in Afghanistan and Iraq - and now Syria. They live in the middle of it day and night, but they don't have any specialists to turn to for help.
War is hell.
1
"Us" less the 4491 service men and women killed and tens of thousands wounded in a contrived war that destabilized the Middle East for no good reason. Hey Jeb! "us" includes all of us.
Thank you, NYT, for the article. God only knows what the answer is, but surely the military can begin identifying those who see combat. How hard can it be? Maybe give everyone who does some kind of medal? Maybe they already get one; so how hard can it be to come up with a list of those most at risk? I'll bet the IRS or Homeland Security could do it in a second.
Life does get better, I know that is hard to swallow but it does as time goes by. If you want inspiration, look to your fellow Marines from WW2. We had paratroopers from Vietnam and Korea come to talk to our unit about life afterwards.....
Strike Hold!
Strike Hold!
1
who invented this war?
As a veteran myself ( Air Force,1966-'70 ) , I think that one dollar should spent responding to veterans' needs like these,for every dollar spent on the wars that create these needs. If we're told we can't afford it,then we can't afford the wars,and all "thank you veterans " gesture are in this respect empty.We need to thank these and future vets with our actions,not just words.
6
I am a physician and a VA employee.
The VA indeed has many ongoing efforts and providers dedicated to preventing Veteran suicide. I can vouch that the VA really does take this tragedy seriously.
Yet, the number of US Veterans committing suicide PER DAY remains around 22, while the number of VA employees seriously disciplined for the waiting list scandal has been estimated to be anywhere from 1 to 60 over the past TWO YEARS.
Meanwhile, we get numerous internal emails from VA leadership congratulating us on what a great job we're doing, and highlighting only the positive press that the VA gets, rather than articles like this one. I think this just encourages a 'Circle the wagons' mentality within the VA.
The VA needs less internal back-slapping, more shake-upping.
The VA indeed has many ongoing efforts and providers dedicated to preventing Veteran suicide. I can vouch that the VA really does take this tragedy seriously.
Yet, the number of US Veterans committing suicide PER DAY remains around 22, while the number of VA employees seriously disciplined for the waiting list scandal has been estimated to be anywhere from 1 to 60 over the past TWO YEARS.
Meanwhile, we get numerous internal emails from VA leadership congratulating us on what a great job we're doing, and highlighting only the positive press that the VA gets, rather than articles like this one. I think this just encourages a 'Circle the wagons' mentality within the VA.
The VA needs less internal back-slapping, more shake-upping.
These men have become psychological prisoners of war. They were trained to be disposable killing machines and that will always be part of who they are.
“Only the dead have seen the end of war.” - Plato
“Only the dead have seen the end of war.” - Plato
1
"Trust in the LORD with all your heart; and lean not to your own understanding."
"If God be for us, who can be against us?"
"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."
"If God be for us, who can be against us?"
"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."
THE INCONVENIENT TRUTH: Let's be specific! Where was the V.A. on this issue under that administration when our Warrior started returning from the Iraq war that Bush/ Cheney started based on lies?
1
In sum, though no one wants to say it, volunteering for military service is among the worst mental health decisions a human being can make.
12
And yet if no one were ever willing, the country would be destroyed by its enemies.
Life, and death, are paradoxes.
Life, and death, are paradoxes.
"basic questions about who is most at risk and how best to help them are still largely unanswered". I can provide an answer....stop sending people to war.
1
Michael Moore stood outside of Congress trying to get the Representatives to sign up their children for the War On Terror. They were horrified.
24
Congressmen can't sign their children up for military service. THe children have to volunteer.
I feel for these men as I did for my brothers who went to Nam.The US government does not care if you live or die.Just know that we the people care.May god bless you in your times of trouble.
What a shame, losing these guys. V.A., where is your "new" plan to fix this? More will surely be lost until then.
To the Men of the Forgotten Battalion: RESPECT. You have walked through experiences that the rest of us cannot possibly understand. I am a counselor who works with combat veterans. I hear the stories of the VA trips that fall far, far short of anything that cold be called of "help." Things have happened, things you've seen, the sounds you've heard . . . it all adds up, doesn't it? I listen to the wounds that vets like you are carrying in your souls. Keep speaking up - we need to learn how to hear you.
The 2nd Battalion, 7th Marines Regiment, had 20 men killed and 160 wounded during 2008, the year Manny Bojorquez served with the unit in Afghanistan. On March 4, 1966, the 2-7 attacked an NVA regiment dug into a hilltop in Vietnam’s Quang Ngai Province. The attacked failed and the NVA counterattacked. The Marines lost 98 dead and had 278 wounded. This was in one day of fighting. There were no epidemics of suicides among combat during previous wars, even though combat was more intense. Something is causing an epidemic of suicide among today’s vets, but it’s not combat.
1
Just donated to the organization mentioned here. TEAM RUBICON USA.
Why are the increased funding not used to found or improve a better counseling program, using experienced psychiatrists? Are the coutry's psychiatrists doing pro bono work to help veterans?
Why are the increased funding not used to found or improve a better counseling program, using experienced psychiatrists? Are the coutry's psychiatrists doing pro bono work to help veterans?
No, during the Iraq War, the country's psychologists were busy helping with torture and illegal interrogations.
FYI.....There are 40,000 suicides annually, yet America simply shrugs.
There's a suicide in the USA every 13 minutes.......
Mental Health has been over looked for the past 30 years........
Welcome to the struggle......
There's a suicide in the USA every 13 minutes.......
Mental Health has been over looked for the past 30 years........
Welcome to the struggle......
1
Number one on today’s list of most popular articles and I’m the first to make a comment? I grieve for these men.
I am an army veteran, though not in combat; drafted in 1961 and served two years of active duty. I had a choice of jail, going to Canada, going underground, or submitting to the draft. I chose the draft. I have been ashamed of that decision to this day. This is the first time I have admitted it, publicly.
The big elephant in the room -- I, and the American public, have been repeatably lied to by our government about the reasons for going to kill other people; and those lies have been consistently left unchallenged by the mainstream news media.
Anger? You bet.
Betrayal? Yes.
Guilt? Yes.
Shame? Most likely.
How long can one live in denial of what we have become, both individually and collectively?
The VA , in spite of its bureaucratic structure, has many dedicate people working to care for the wounded. They struggle with the same contradictions we all do. They are part of the symptom, not the problem. The problem is the lies we tell each other.
I grieve for these men and women. I grieve for myself. I grieve for the American people, and for all of the innocents that have been killed in our name.
I am an army veteran, though not in combat; drafted in 1961 and served two years of active duty. I had a choice of jail, going to Canada, going underground, or submitting to the draft. I chose the draft. I have been ashamed of that decision to this day. This is the first time I have admitted it, publicly.
The big elephant in the room -- I, and the American public, have been repeatably lied to by our government about the reasons for going to kill other people; and those lies have been consistently left unchallenged by the mainstream news media.
Anger? You bet.
Betrayal? Yes.
Guilt? Yes.
Shame? Most likely.
How long can one live in denial of what we have become, both individually and collectively?
The VA , in spite of its bureaucratic structure, has many dedicate people working to care for the wounded. They struggle with the same contradictions we all do. They are part of the symptom, not the problem. The problem is the lies we tell each other.
I grieve for these men and women. I grieve for myself. I grieve for the American people, and for all of the innocents that have been killed in our name.
9
You got Troops who served and have gotten out and because of the Financial Crisis and 20 million Americans who lost there jobs (Veterans lasted hired and first fired because of serve & seniority).
President Obama had a program to modified Dept of VA loans, however not a one of the loans applying for the HAMP or VA HAMP were process, but instead they were illegally foreclosed in the name of the 100% owned Ginnie Mae!
HUD does not answer why Ginnie Mae is the head of this RICO operation where veterans and their family member are committing suicide because the armed State Police come and forcibly remove the Veterans with or without limbs and puts them and their wives and children out of their legally owned homes!
There was not a case were these loan that were in a Ginnie Mae mortgage backed securities that the properties could have been foreclosed because no mortgage, deed of trust or security deed illegally exist on the properties, as the instrument is forever separated from the debt!
At best there is only a unsecured debt against the properties and in the case of Washington Mutual Bank who was seized and declared a "failed bank" the debt stop existing on Sept 25, 2008 which was 7yrs ago!
Today the White House complains about Donald Trump for not defending him, while the President is being paid to defend the US Constitution but the Veterans 4th Amendment Rights that are violated with the help of the Federal Government in HUD & Ginnie Mae!
President Obama had a program to modified Dept of VA loans, however not a one of the loans applying for the HAMP or VA HAMP were process, but instead they were illegally foreclosed in the name of the 100% owned Ginnie Mae!
HUD does not answer why Ginnie Mae is the head of this RICO operation where veterans and their family member are committing suicide because the armed State Police come and forcibly remove the Veterans with or without limbs and puts them and their wives and children out of their legally owned homes!
There was not a case were these loan that were in a Ginnie Mae mortgage backed securities that the properties could have been foreclosed because no mortgage, deed of trust or security deed illegally exist on the properties, as the instrument is forever separated from the debt!
At best there is only a unsecured debt against the properties and in the case of Washington Mutual Bank who was seized and declared a "failed bank" the debt stop existing on Sept 25, 2008 which was 7yrs ago!
Today the White House complains about Donald Trump for not defending him, while the President is being paid to defend the US Constitution but the Veterans 4th Amendment Rights that are violated with the help of the Federal Government in HUD & Ginnie Mae!
What an incredibly moving and important piece.
After WWII, there were jobs available, affordable schooling, mortgages, new families--the baby boom.
Do these young men have a chance at any of that? Are there jobs for them? Affordable schooling and housing? Or is it all part time jobs and living with the parents?
And what's with that idiot therapist telling that war was like breaking up with a girlfriend.
My prayers are with these guys. And our whole country needs to do more, much more, to help them.
After WWII, there were jobs available, affordable schooling, mortgages, new families--the baby boom.
Do these young men have a chance at any of that? Are there jobs for them? Affordable schooling and housing? Or is it all part time jobs and living with the parents?
And what's with that idiot therapist telling that war was like breaking up with a girlfriend.
My prayers are with these guys. And our whole country needs to do more, much more, to help them.
22
I am a mom of a vet, a member of 2/8 that also served in helmand province. He did two tours. I thought I had dodge a bullet when he came home unharmed, and then the suicides began, and I realized it's not the bullet that gets you, its the land mines, and they are all around you. My Son is going through his own private hell, and I feel bereft, To see the struggle that he has with his own demons, what have we done to our children? 1% of the people of this country are bearing the burdens of this war, as one mother I say it wasnt worth this, my son is physically whole, but I wonder if he will ever be spiritually whole again, not because I dont believe it is possible, but because I fear that he doesnt. What have we as a nation done! WHat have we done, and how can we ever ever make it better for our veterans and their families again? It is a pain that comes from the vet and reverberates through the vets entire family, and their friends. I consider myself a very strong woman, but i find myself wondering if I will ever know peace of mind and soul again, because my baby is so wounded and I cant fix it.
1
The VA is not the problem; war is. Does any reasonable person really believe you can subject a healthy human being to the experiences described in this article and expect him to return to civilian life undamaged? It is very easy to find fault with the Veterans' Administration, which tries hard to provide solutions to the problems created by the military hawks in Washington, D.C. We wrongly targeted our warriors after Viet Nam. Now it's popular to target the VA. Let's take a long hard look at our militaristic nation.
30
Agreed, while I was reading the unfortunate details of poor services of the VA, I was scolding Congress deep in my heart. They are to blame for the VA not being funded enough to sufficiently care for our veterans. I am grateful that the VA cares for me as a veteran and rue the day when the Rethugs get away with privatizing that as well. There goes my health care which I earned and which I still pay taxes into as well as reasonable co-pays.
Cut the military medical bureaucracy and give the money directly to the service men and women for combat stress. They can spend the money as they wish: education, psychological help, buying a business, starting a family, trip to the Bahamas, a motorcycle, etc
Maybe someone could do the numbers and see if it would be cost effective to give $50,000 for each year of combat (maybe the numbers workout even higher).
Maybe someone could do the numbers and see if it would be cost effective to give $50,000 for each year of combat (maybe the numbers workout even higher).
1
Let's do something to compensate veterans, but why lay waste to the military medical bureaucracy which saves many veterans' lives and their families? Only negative stories were present here in this article about the VA, but as a veteran myself, it has already once saved my life.
If there's any question how we're free,
Tell them because they fought for me.
- Frank
Suicide doesn't stalk people. Suicide is self inflicted. These folks need help. They can help each other through it, find others to help them.
Using their situation and eventual bad decision - suicide - to justify the warped point that the wars were unjust is evil.
Tell them because they fought for me.
- Frank
Suicide doesn't stalk people. Suicide is self inflicted. These folks need help. They can help each other through it, find others to help them.
Using their situation and eventual bad decision - suicide - to justify the warped point that the wars were unjust is evil.
1
You're wrong. Suicidal thoughts do stalk people.
There are levels of the mind which most people do not comprehend.
There are levels of the mind which most people do not comprehend.
You have it wrong my friend. The wars those men fought in were and are evil. Not the men or the Times.
They were started by evil men. W, Cheney, Rumsfield are the first three. If there is a God who judges us after we die, I would not want to be in their "shoes" when they pass over.
The men who committed suicide will get a pass.
They were started by evil men. W, Cheney, Rumsfield are the first three. If there is a God who judges us after we die, I would not want to be in their "shoes" when they pass over.
The men who committed suicide will get a pass.
Your last line disturbs me. I don't believe vets are taking their lives to justify war is evil. I think this article plainly points out that it becomes too unbearable for many veterans who take their lives in what they have witnessed and with fellow soldiers who they were very close to.
An incredibly heartbreaking story, not only for the pain and suffering these dedicated soldiers have to go through, but for the lack of resources our government is providing for them. I encourage people interested in finding promising alternative treatments in dealing with PTSD to contact MAPS (Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies). They have been conducting studies showing the efficacy of pure MDMA under proper supervision in treating PTSD. Sadly the U.S. government has been slow to change MDMA from a Schedule 1 drug ("most dangerous with no known medical benefits) to a Schedule III drug which would allow doctors to use it in therapy. Our government owes these young men and women proper and immediate medical care so they may regain their sense of wholeness within themselves and their relationships.
1
MDMA might be workable for some with PTSD just as ECT seems to be workable for those with severe depression and Bipolar, but the stats can be misleading. The VA works for 10's of millions of veterans as an excellent medical care system but this article did not reflect this. I blame Congress who was not willing to pay for the 10's of thousands of combat-weary veterans that would have high needs after so many Bush wars. I blame Congress and I wish that had been stated in the article instead of shot after shot of blame onto a VA system that was unable to respond to our huge influx of war-weary and injured vets.
Destroying the lives of others obviously has a real cost --- The problem is that those who created the problem are not those who go and suffer the consequences.
This article ought to be sent to all schools, all ought to be compelled to read and write essays about how they react, and Vets ought to be sent in as follow up to drive home the message that the cost of going to war is unending.
It may not help the returnees, but it may save others from making the same mistake.
This article ought to be sent to all schools, all ought to be compelled to read and write essays about how they react, and Vets ought to be sent in as follow up to drive home the message that the cost of going to war is unending.
It may not help the returnees, but it may save others from making the same mistake.
4
Good idea! Yes, it could help returnees as they can share their stories with younger generations about 911 and what caused many to enter the military during the 2000's. It might be very healing for returnees to talk about the rash consequences of their emotive decisions.
War is cruelty; my heart goes out to the families of the victims of such tragic endings which, it seems to me, are more or less psychological effects of combat in the consequence of the war in Afghanistan or Iraq. Our politicians should realize that war is not a solution to any conflict.
4
So, Lincoln should have let the Confederacy leave quietly?
The war continues even when the battlefield is far away in space and time. The suffering is a burden too heavy for any combatant. Frankly I cannot dissociate this kind of tragedies from those politicians who are always prone to create a "casus belli" but, eventually, they would never see or know the meaning of a battlefield.
4
As a Vietnam Veteran I can tell you the American people give lip service to the people who served and the worst are the liberals who in their quiet little cocktail parties demean the hoi polloi for serving and talking of Nigel and Margaret's success on Wall Street. However if these Veterans had been women who committed suicide the President, Congress the media would be pounding their fists on their desks wanting action. This article makes it so obvious that the US doesn't care about men. More lip service for men and more money for the feminist causes, like man spreading.
Wow Pablo. I am a feminist and a female veteran during the war era ... who was nearly called into battle thanks to one of the Bush's who adore war as long as they don't have to send any of their family members abroad. Women in the military are getting raped all of the time and not one politician is pounding their fists on their desks. It is a joke to a misogynist culture that not only do women face many negative aspects of war but suffer further damage for serving their military. Remember that 19% of the military is made up of females and the "liberals" that you stand accusing, are fighting for VA benefits and I'm one of them! PS - I don't have quiet little cocktail parties, can't afford them and too much work to be done on behalf of all those who still suffer including our Viet Nam vets.
The Vietnam war ended just before I would have had to enter the lottery of death that is the Selective Service. Instead I got to go to college...without needing a deferment. What I remember most is that the bathroom stalls were all tiny. No disabled vet could have used the bathroom there even if he or she was on the GI Bill. I still can't believe it took until 1990 to get the ADA passed, and that many "conservatives" still whine about it as a government intrusion into their freedom.
Parents, stop sending your children off to war, especially those that are so clearly unnecessary. American military, take care of them all when they come home. Don't force them back into civilian life unless we know they're okay and don't humiliate them as if they're weak for . With any kind of smart policy, the number of young men and women we are essentially sending off to die, on the battlefield or on their return home, should diminish, if there is any justice in the world. I have one question, though, having grown up in the Vietnam era. I don't recall hearing a lot about vets suicide but do recall a lot of instances of veterans breaking down, sometimes violently. Have we had a lot of suicides after other wars? I suspect the VA and military did not track.
4
Good questions! If the VA and the military have not been keeping track of the Bush family wars, then they certainly haven't for past wars although there may be some stats from our Viet Nam war veterans. But the homeless situation became very apparent after that war and PTSD was suddenly front and center in the mental health field.
1
I read the article. Then I read the comments. It is unbelievable to me that everyone acts like this is a first time experience and reaction to war. And it happens over and over. In my life there has been Vietnam. And then the first Gulf War. Then Afghanistan. And then Iraq. And on and on it goes. And it seems that no one ever learns any lessons from the previous wars. There is nothing that is carried over. Pathetic.
8
I was wondering if a Bush might read this article and identify the havoc they have raised on lower and middle class young people who have suffered so needlessly because of rich men's wars. Now there's another Bush thirsting for war with Iran, Syria, Russia, just to sacrifice more lives that do not impact that family or their party.
George Santayana: "Those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it.
Me: "But most people never even know what happened in the past, so they can't forget it, or learn from it."
Me: "But most people never even know what happened in the past, so they can't forget it, or learn from it."
As long as the US continues to elect people like Bush into the presidency and
as long as the other politicians say yes to blatant revenge wars like Bush's and
as long as young men are blinded by US nationalism, war will keep marching on.
Regarding the "studies" to find the facts in order to stem the tide of suicides.
Save your money, since the answers are in the stories and faces of thousands
trying to tell you that there are limits to what a human being can endure.
War is no longer an option on planet earth, neither the environment nor humans
can withstand or ever recover from the long term impact of modern weapons.
We need a new world, with economies that are not based on military production.
as long as the other politicians say yes to blatant revenge wars like Bush's and
as long as young men are blinded by US nationalism, war will keep marching on.
Regarding the "studies" to find the facts in order to stem the tide of suicides.
Save your money, since the answers are in the stories and faces of thousands
trying to tell you that there are limits to what a human being can endure.
War is no longer an option on planet earth, neither the environment nor humans
can withstand or ever recover from the long term impact of modern weapons.
We need a new world, with economies that are not based on military production.
12
As much as I dislike the Bushes, Hillary Clinton supported, and still supports, the Bush invasion of Iraq.
And LBJ started the Vietnam War based on the Gulf of Tonkin incident, even though there is no evidence that the incident ever occurred.
This is not a Republican-Democrat problem.
This is an American people problem.
And LBJ started the Vietnam War based on the Gulf of Tonkin incident, even though there is no evidence that the incident ever occurred.
This is not a Republican-Democrat problem.
This is an American people problem.
First of all, thank you Mr. Philipps for taking the time to research and write an article that reveals both the depth of suffering and the possibility of healing of these men. Very powerful. It is the best article on combat veterans and suicide that I have ever read. There is however, one thing missing from this important discussion. Often referred to as the 'Hidden Jewel of the VA' - Vet Centers. While there are some very dedicated people in the VA, there are also, as Mr. Philipps makes clear, others who have no business counseling anyone about anything. So you might get lucky there and get some real help, and you might not. The Vet Centers are different. They are small counseling centers scattered all across America. They were started by combat veterans from the Vietnam War. They employ the strategies these Marines seem to have discovered on their own - they help combat vets help each other. Vet Centers are for combat veterans only. Other veterans are not eligible. And the Vet Centers are not subject to the bureaucracy of the VA. They are separate for good reason. They have helped a lot of combat vets for many years. I hope your article will help some combat veterans to get the help they deserve. And to all the Marines who made this article possible with your incredible bravery over there and now back here, thank you.
It sounds like a case of suicide contagion vs the war.. most of us who work in suicide prevention are know that the often quoted 22 suicides of vets a day only includes 1 vet from the Iraq/Afg wars (the bulk of deaths are men over 65 just like the rest of the population). In fact suicide is lower than the general population among I/A vets and as horrible as it is for the family members of those that have lost their life or the 10x higher number who have had suicidal thoughts in this unit articles like this only serve to spread the mythy of emotionally damaged and dangerous young vets.
1
We suffer from first world problems and sleep peaceably at night because some absorb great violence on our behalf while combating the ideology of peace.
It's too bad that such wars don't happen without a general draft up to age 45 that cuts across the entire socioeconomic spectrum, with no exemption for the kids of the Aristocracy whose parents can afford to send them to $30k-$60k per year prep high schools before they can go on to meet/mate with others in the Aristocracy under the smokescreen of getting an "education."
It's too bad that such wars don't happen without a general draft up to age 45 that cuts across the entire socioeconomic spectrum, with no exemption for the kids of the Aristocracy whose parents can afford to send them to $30k-$60k per year prep high schools before they can go on to meet/mate with others in the Aristocracy under the smokescreen of getting an "education."
1
As someone who suffers from and getting help for mental health issues, what these men are experiencing are two very, very powerful emotions and feelings, for men particularly: The emotion of shame, and the feeling of betrayal. For men particularly, men are told to shove these emotions and feelings down deep, and to express them is the ultimate sign of weakness. Even more so in the military. I know all too well the power of those two things put together. The problem in the military and society in general, is the quickness to qualify mental health conditions. The men in this unit need not provide their bona fides to their condition, but many in the military do, even in this article qualifying between those in direct combat and those that are not. Next the most underreported part of this article, the unhappiness among those veterans with the mental health provider. The one thing that the VA could do quickly, is greatly expand civilian network coverage. Let these veterans find a provider THEY feel comfortable with, it makes all the difference in the world. Have the DoD do a survey and ask this one question, do you trust a military/VA mental health provider to tell your deepest, darkest secrets and trust that HIPPA will be honored and respected? You do not want to see the results of that poll, but it will tell you exactly why the men of 2/7 are fairing so poorly. God bless these young men, they must know if they get the RIGHT help, it could and would get better.
1
Institute a draft. That is the only mechanism we have to prevent armchair warriors and politicians from sending our children to war.
War is not a video game and it is, in fact, hell. It does not matter who is victorious because the toll it takes on the human psyche is simply immeasurable and for many impossible to manage. This is not the fault of the soldier rather it is a rational response to irrational acts and situations. The soldier is not to blame, the V.A. only partly responsible, the full weight of responsibility rests with those who applaud War.
If you watched the three hour GOP debate the other night you heard candidates intimate war with Iran, the Middle East, and with Russia & China. All to thunderous applause by, what can only be described as, individuals ignorant of War. For those that applaud I suggest you join an active combat unit and if you are too old, too young, too frail, then I suggest you get family to enlist. Quit cheering and think about what you are embracing.
The V.A. is woefully underfunded and this is not an oversight. This is purposeful and it amazes me people cannot understand that. Americans applaud aggression but do not want to pay for the consequences. They want to fund the largest military in the world but not pay for fallout. If care is too expensive they blame the V.A., its employees, and the soldier. But, they never turn their blame upon themselves.
Lastly, Bush, Cheney et al committed War crimes and we have done absolutely nothing.
War is not a video game and it is, in fact, hell. It does not matter who is victorious because the toll it takes on the human psyche is simply immeasurable and for many impossible to manage. This is not the fault of the soldier rather it is a rational response to irrational acts and situations. The soldier is not to blame, the V.A. only partly responsible, the full weight of responsibility rests with those who applaud War.
If you watched the three hour GOP debate the other night you heard candidates intimate war with Iran, the Middle East, and with Russia & China. All to thunderous applause by, what can only be described as, individuals ignorant of War. For those that applaud I suggest you join an active combat unit and if you are too old, too young, too frail, then I suggest you get family to enlist. Quit cheering and think about what you are embracing.
The V.A. is woefully underfunded and this is not an oversight. This is purposeful and it amazes me people cannot understand that. Americans applaud aggression but do not want to pay for the consequences. They want to fund the largest military in the world but not pay for fallout. If care is too expensive they blame the V.A., its employees, and the soldier. But, they never turn their blame upon themselves.
Lastly, Bush, Cheney et al committed War crimes and we have done absolutely nothing.
42
Institute a draft.
Make everyone die for nothing thanks to the stupidity of the U.S. ruling class.
Make everyone die for nothing thanks to the stupidity of the U.S. ruling class.
The blame for all these suicides of young men who 'defended' our country has to be put on the shoulders of Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld for orchestrating this war. We should also note that this action is responsible for all the migrants and refugees at the moment because this war that was started destabilized the whole Middle East and now we are seeing its impact throughout the world. The Bush administration should be tried for war crimes. The present Bush who wants to be president should be ashamed of his brother and father and should not be seeking any public office.
4
letting veterans drift into the disease of depression and suicide is, to use carly fiorina's formulation, a really serious blight on the "national character".
where is an executive order when you really need it? where is the congressional will to pass funding and demand change? where are the candidates who will make this, rather than planned parenthood, the iran deal or illegal immigration, a top tier issue?
it's a bitter shame and scandal all around.
where is an executive order when you really need it? where is the congressional will to pass funding and demand change? where are the candidates who will make this, rather than planned parenthood, the iran deal or illegal immigration, a top tier issue?
it's a bitter shame and scandal all around.
I am not surprised to hear one of the veterans say that a VA therapist suggested he could stop his suffering by simply viewing his experience like that of breaking up with a girlfriend. Never in all the accounts of studies examining the quality of care at VA medical centers have I heard much about the VA's hiring practices. How is it that a therapist so lacking in insight and empathy, so dismissive and invalidating of a patient's suffering, could be on the VA payroll? It is one thing for the VA to say they offer "gold standard" evidence-based therapy, but who is it that's providing that therapy? VA medical centers, like many large government bureaucracies, continue to be pork barrels of well-paying jobs that go to applicants who know someone who, in turn, knew someone before them who could pave their way into a VA job. You might say that's just the way of the world. Perhaps so. But if it means a suffering veteran ends up in therapy with an incompetent therapist of the kind who would equate his suffering to that of losing a girlfriend, then what? As the suicides among veterans continues to shock the nation, wouldn't it be fair to ask that the next study of this scourge look at who the VA is hiring as psychiatrists and therapists and ask just whether they are the most qualified of their lot?
3
It would be highly recommended that the mental health staff be stacked with veterans themselves. I am a veteran but their hiring hoops you have to jump through are amazing and I have never been able to make it through their lengthy, multi-faceted hiring process. It's a very cold hard-hearted administrative process and whenever I tried to interview them during their interview process, very minimal response and no warmth. I have known people who got in that were non-veterans because they knew someone inside. That much is true!
1
Your story is a familiar one. Yet, the VA's denying jobs to qualified veterans has not been investigated, even when veteran generals have overseen it. Local politics -- driven by pork barrel considerations -- rule that out. Whether it's clerks and minor bureaucrats looking for bonuses or to protect the VA from missed, mandated visitation schedules, a culture is at work, and no one has looked at it. Yes, this is a fine article and the reporter is reported to have won a Pulitzer Prize when he was at a Colorado Springs paper for stories he did on mis-served veterans. Well and fine, but journalism does not commit to larger stories examining such cultures. Journalism leaves that to sociologists because journalism has become part of pop culture, interested in exploring the sensational (and you would have to see this article as fitting that category despite its virtue of attempting to evoke an outcry against suffering). To look at the culture of the VA and the incompetence its hiring practices promote is beyond the reach and talent of today's journalism. Until the culture of the VA is exposed and changed, the mistreatment of veterans will continue, and so will the suicides.
I don't believe this is a situation where you should take sides. Sure, a lot of Afghans were innocent people, who, like the syrians, may have seen their families blown to pieces by airstrikes, and that's inhumane. But then again, there are lots of marines that were just following orders, trying to support their families, who saw friends die like animals in the battlefield. Who lost limbs trying to save their comrades. There is nothing to do, the damage is done. But we can still support the veterans and remind them that even if the government turns its back on them, we won't. We are grateful for their service. We want them to reincorporate. Even something as insignificant as a visit to have a chat, can slowly rebuild their hope.
"Words will always retain their power.
Words offer the means to meaning,
and for those who will listen,
the enunciation of truth."
-- V, "V for Vendetta"
"Words will always retain their power.
Words offer the means to meaning,
and for those who will listen,
the enunciation of truth."
-- V, "V for Vendetta"
1
As a nation we only considered the beginning of the wars, and as a result grossly miscalculated the cost. The VA carriers this burden but is not the cause. We spent trillions to ensure soldiers were deployed rapidly to erect mountainside bunkers across the world overnight. They were equipped with body armor, night vision, and smart weapons. We built bases and systems to operate drones remotely. Nuclear powered aircraft carriers, with crews the size of small cities scramble billion dollar jets to provide air support when a dozen soldiers are stuck in a pinch. And then we call it a day. At the VA, my phone rings and rings during therapy sessions since we don’t have a receptionist. We are short staffed in every field, but under a hiring freeze. Construction of the structure is 2 years behind schedule so employees can’t drive to work. The west wing of the building is closed after the ceiling collapsed from flooding...again. Funds for to the hospital are based on 2012 numbers, failing to account for the growth in demand. We respond to Congressional mandates for testing, administration and forms, clogging patient files with useless distracters, while the wait list gets longer. And yet we win awards for excellence every year because our people care about veterans. You can’t wrap up a trillion dollar war on the cheap. There is no easy way. Blaming the VA is attacking the messenger. Give the VA the resources that the military had to start this war and lets see what happens.
8
Amen!
Thank you for your service; the accountability to our soldiers lies with those who are happy to finance war, but not to finance the second war- a war to provide not just therapy, but the treatments and hospitalization and crisis intervention. This is not a population that needs monthly sessions- this level of trauma requires an investment in intensive care from highly trained providers who are given adequate systems and infrastructure and administrative support. This nation loves to build public institutions but fails miserably to ensure they are able to respond and thrive to meet the basic human rights of their users. A pro-war congress which does not equip the VA out of "deficient" concerns is morally deficient. Shame on this nation
I worked for a time in the VA as a psychologist. I was struck by how the bureaucracy of the agency hindered its ability to meet the needs of the veterans for which it exists. VA staff were hardworking and dedicated, but leadership was often petty, politically divisive, and caught up in adolescent fantasies of "being in charge" and policing staff productivity rather than fostering creative and urgent problem-solving among already talented staff. The result was a VA medical center bogged down in dysfunction and poor morale. It's time for very fundamental change in the VA and it does not seem to be forthcoming anytime soon.
1
Now what one second here! This sounds like private corporations as well. I don't believe the VA is unique in this make-up at all! We're human beings and those in charge become more in touch with stats and figures and new gimmicks that are useless. The front line providers always pay and most of all the consumers pay the highest price. I have had an excellent experience being a patient of the VA, much better than civilian operations.
Tremendous, just outstanding journalism; a profound story that I will share with many others. This is illuminating on several levels and most of all I think it holds the lesson that a President of the caliber of a W. Bush must never be elected again. Deep congratulations to Mr. Heisler for wonderful work, and of course, deepest sympathies to these suffering, selfless war veterans. If there is any justice, this very fine work will win the highest awards in journalism and garner the most attention possible.
5
Firstly, I want to express my sympathy and blessings to wartime vets.
But I wish someone would do a rough study of the "excess" suicides. Calculate the suicides among a peer group which did not enlist, then compare this number to the actual suicides among all vets serving in conflict areas in the Middle East.
But I wish someone would do a rough study of the "excess" suicides. Calculate the suicides among a peer group which did not enlist, then compare this number to the actual suicides among all vets serving in conflict areas in the Middle East.
1
The best that I can tell you right now is that 12.94 Americans out of 100,000 take their lives each year and nearly a quarter of them are veterans. I'm not sure the research has been done regarding your questions specifically although I believe they are good ones.
I wonder why this tragic situation is different from what's come to pass after other wars -- not just wars the U.S. has waged and not just for U.S. soldiers. War -- death and wound whether physical or psychological or spiritual, is as old as mankind. I wonder if how things are now is even different at all, and perhaps we just know more about how warfighters suffer than in the past. I do think that for American soldiers, there is less opportunity at home, more stress and alienation, and more harshness and cynicism than was the case for servicemen and servicewomen in the past. Sadly, that seems to be the case for many of us. The ultimate solutions is not to wage war.
1
In WWI, it was called shell shock, in WWII it was called battle fatigue, in Viet Nam it was called PTSD, after the Bush wars, it has now become the suicide syndrome. All wars cause great harm to human beings and that is not even considering the civilian populations that suffer through them. Just watch the great migration from the Middle East into Europe right now. Migrations have occurred throughout history due to war and its concurrent displacement of innocent lives.
A good friend of mine was a career soldier in the British army who served in an elite outfit, saw combat overseas, and retired with the rank of Sargeant Major.
I once asked him about the kinds of depression and suicide tragedies among American veterans that are so powerfully reported on in this article, as well as the problems of drug addiction and homelessness that afflict far too many former service persons but often go unnoticed until it's too late.
Is this also a problem among British vets? I asked.
He replied it's a problem worldwide, of course. But there's a major difference in the U.K -- the British have a centuries-old concept and tradition of "The Regiment."
That is, after leaving the military you are still considered an honored member of "The Regiment" and the community of your old outfit -- kind of like a super college alumni group. Former members of a British regiment stay in touch and socialize in a manner that is highly structured by centuries of tradition.
Most important, if a member of a particular regiment has lost his job, become depressed or is dealing with a crisis there's a good chance he won't fall through the cracks, but other members will find out and get him help help fairly quickly.
I once asked him about the kinds of depression and suicide tragedies among American veterans that are so powerfully reported on in this article, as well as the problems of drug addiction and homelessness that afflict far too many former service persons but often go unnoticed until it's too late.
Is this also a problem among British vets? I asked.
He replied it's a problem worldwide, of course. But there's a major difference in the U.K -- the British have a centuries-old concept and tradition of "The Regiment."
That is, after leaving the military you are still considered an honored member of "The Regiment" and the community of your old outfit -- kind of like a super college alumni group. Former members of a British regiment stay in touch and socialize in a manner that is highly structured by centuries of tradition.
Most important, if a member of a particular regiment has lost his job, become depressed or is dealing with a crisis there's a good chance he won't fall through the cracks, but other members will find out and get him help help fairly quickly.
14
I have served in a war, nor experienced PTSD.
But, as a physician I wonder whether many soldiers reactions are normal ones to an extremely insane environment.
They may not have a disease.
The best help may come (as others have commented) from those who have passed through similar horrors and have managed to "work through" their readjustment to civilian life, with its own weirdness and stress.
In any event, we as a nation and a society should put out all necessary resources to help them find a good place back home.
(Obviously, we should stop taking on unnecessary wars, also.)
But, as a physician I wonder whether many soldiers reactions are normal ones to an extremely insane environment.
They may not have a disease.
The best help may come (as others have commented) from those who have passed through similar horrors and have managed to "work through" their readjustment to civilian life, with its own weirdness and stress.
In any event, we as a nation and a society should put out all necessary resources to help them find a good place back home.
(Obviously, we should stop taking on unnecessary wars, also.)
4
These stories seem to ebb-and-flow through the news. Maybe this article notes a practical solution to this tragic loss of soul and hope. Recently, I needed the VA's assistance with healthcare, a requirement under the Affordable Healthcare Act, for years I used the healthcare provided by my employer. As a disabled veteran, I was admitted into their system. The intake evaluation was like an interrogation, do you own guns, how much do drink, are you taking drugs. They search all the drug, military, and police databases. The had asked me to bring along all my previous medical records. They didn't look at them. Not a lot of compassion, here. Enough of these stories. Seems, we hear them over again., and they pass.
I did attend a privileged college after the Vietnam War and once at lunch I was asked about my experience. There was not much depth to the stories. I didn't feel like talking about war or post-war. One woman told me, "I would have just left the service, I would not have put up with that". That, I understood, maybe just one anecdotal story among the many best-and brightest that don't get it. Right then, I did it. She was not alone
I did attend a privileged college after the Vietnam War and once at lunch I was asked about my experience. There was not much depth to the stories. I didn't feel like talking about war or post-war. One woman told me, "I would have just left the service, I would not have put up with that". That, I understood, maybe just one anecdotal story among the many best-and brightest that don't get it. Right then, I did it. She was not alone
How ridiculous that you would be surprised that the VA would perform a thorough evaluation and background checks (which I didn't experience but would be a good idea) because evaluations need to be thorough to high-risk populations such as veterans. You should be grateful for the great services you receive and that they took the time to provide taxpayer dollar spent expertise evaluations and ongoing assessments. I am a female veteran and a mental health provider and I would be doing my clients a disservice if I didn't perform as thorough an evaluation as I could possibly do. It's my professional duty.
The VA worked for me. Talking it out, surprisingly, was the answer. It was very painful and I wanted to quit. All VA Hospitals can't possibly give the same level of care and the one I used is in West Haven Connecticut. I wouldn't say it was great care by any means. On my first visit I was deeply confused and desperate and I had to surrender my belt and shoelaces then sit in a locked room for hours like a prisoner on suicide watch. That was over 15 years ago and I hope the all VA's have a much better system in place now. The problem as I see it is that at the darkest point the confusion and despair are too deep for rational thought. You can't think your way out of it (or at least I couldn't) and reaching out to someone, anyone, can start to lift the fog. I'm very grateful to the VA for helping me by supplying an unbiased and sympathetic ear but I'm also quite certain that it isn't the solution for everybody. Holding it in was what the problem was for me and simply talking about it, although very painful, eventually let it out. Still, it was a fight. I wish you the best of luck guys.
68
Politicians and diplomats have come to accept the consePoliticians and diplomats have come to accept the consequences of warfare and chalk it up to the casualties of combat. Whether a soldier dies on the battlefield or at home it does not matter. They have given up their lives in service to the military. It couldn't be service to the country not when politicians and diplomats refuse to send their own children in harms way. And it certainly isn't on behalf of a nation, many of whom do not want the U.S. involved in foreign wars.
Soldiers have become estranged from the population they claim to serve, most tellingly from their resentment and defensiveness when someone dares to thank them for their service. This is another symptom that Americans, military and civilian have become less compassionate people.
Terrible tragedy here. Clearly mental health professionals are woefully unprepared but this has been going on for the past 40 years.
Soldiers have become estranged from the population they claim to serve, most tellingly from their resentment and defensiveness when someone dares to thank them for their service. This is another symptom that Americans, military and civilian have become less compassionate people.
Terrible tragedy here. Clearly mental health professionals are woefully unprepared but this has been going on for the past 40 years.
3
The American ideal and practice of being a soldier is based on old ideas of temporary national service out of the Civil War, the Great War(WWI) and the Second World War in which almost all those returning had social commitments ,among which having, making and supporting a family were of utmost importance. Veterans groups popped up like mushrooms after rain and there were always places for former soldiers to go and always a universal cameraderie and respect. After the Vietnam war-our last draft war and our grandest failure to, date-the average vet was a draftee-few had felt any ideals about that war,(unlike Bush's bizzarro war), and the society they returned to sucked them in and gave many needed work. This war was an all volunteer war in which the men returning are treated not as the heroes but often of dupes who ended up having only each other. No one wants to hear about their war. Since they prefer the jolt of juice war gives-why not force all returnees to go and "fight" wildfires in California, where they are needed, in danger and can form positive social bonds with others as well as learn to function again in non war society?
We have plenty of such fires and disasters and I'm sure these guys would pay to get to serve again and feel needed--and useful.
We have plenty of such fires and disasters and I'm sure these guys would pay to get to serve again and feel needed--and useful.
A recent study, considered the most comprehensive ever, revealed that combat appears to have little or no influence on suicide rates among U.S. troops and veterans. "The findings from this study are not consistent with the assumption that specific deployment-related characteristics, such as length of deployment, number of deployments, or combat experiences, are directly associated" with suicides, the authors wrote. The study also showed post-traumatic stress syndrome was uncommon and by itself was not found to be a suicide risk factor.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/07/military-suicide-study_n_371985...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/07/military-suicide-study_n_371985...
In the new America it seems everything is compartmentalized. If we go to war, volunteers are sent with whatever is laying around for equipment (while 100s of billions are spent on high tech weapons). No one need worry about a draft, or increased taxes ( in fact we had tax cuts-at least the rich did) all we had to do was go shopping and "support the troops".
I hope any successful candidate for our next "war president", because we surely will be at war, will include plans for a more equitable sharing of the true costs of our over seas misadventures. Higher taxes to pay as we go and pay for the problems we cause for the people we send to do out dirty work for us when they come home. In the mean time a surcharge on all our cheap gasoline to pay for whatever help these kids need now is in order. Oh yeah, how about a national service requirement for every young person?
I hope any successful candidate for our next "war president", because we surely will be at war, will include plans for a more equitable sharing of the true costs of our over seas misadventures. Higher taxes to pay as we go and pay for the problems we cause for the people we send to do out dirty work for us when they come home. In the mean time a surcharge on all our cheap gasoline to pay for whatever help these kids need now is in order. Oh yeah, how about a national service requirement for every young person?
1
The examples in this article reveal characteristics of trauma that are well known in the scientific field of traumatic stress but remain unrecognized in medical care. The description of the quietness that lies in between rounds of gunfire, where you can hear your footsteps - is a common experience in states of "freeze" such as researched by neurophysiologist Stephen Porges, PhD. This is an unconscious physiological process designed for self-protection. Hatred and rage are a normal sign of fight / flight states of heightened sympathetic nervous system activity. These states get triggered during events that are overwhelming, inescapable and for which there is no help or support - or when that help gets blown up right in front of you. Symptoms arise when we cannot integrate and exit such states, which are hallmarks of trauma.
The way this group is expressing mutual acknowledgement of pain, love and connection enlists the physiological state known as the "tend and befriend / rest and recover." This is the ventral vagal branch of the parasympathetic nervous system, as described by neurophysiologist Stephen Porges and by researcher Barbara Frederickson in her book Love 2.0. This is the state that supports digestion, sleep, the ability to experience peace etc and that gets lost in trauma.
There are ways of healing trauma that draw from the science - including Somatic Experiencing, Sensorimotor Psychotherapy, EMDR, Brain Spotting, Internal Family Systems and more …
The way this group is expressing mutual acknowledgement of pain, love and connection enlists the physiological state known as the "tend and befriend / rest and recover." This is the ventral vagal branch of the parasympathetic nervous system, as described by neurophysiologist Stephen Porges and by researcher Barbara Frederickson in her book Love 2.0. This is the state that supports digestion, sleep, the ability to experience peace etc and that gets lost in trauma.
There are ways of healing trauma that draw from the science - including Somatic Experiencing, Sensorimotor Psychotherapy, EMDR, Brain Spotting, Internal Family Systems and more …
1
This is a remarkable story. I am impressed with how connected the men still are. I wonder if it might not be worthwhile to try an approach of getting the men together on a quarterly basis, perhaps in the town where the surviving members of the families of deceased comrades reside. They could meet with the surviving family members, and perhaps plan to do something meaningful for the family or provide something they need, in addition engaging in some supportive group meetings ending in recommitting to surviving until the next meeting and promising to call their comrades if they feel suicidal. The quarterly get-together would give them something to live for. They seem to be very committed to each other, and perhaps their quarterly pledge to stay alive made to each other might serve to keep them alive.
Yes, remarkable, and quite entertaining. This is, well, a novel.
A timely article. A must-read for Veterans of all nations. War is unnatural but necessary. I spent my 22nd birthday as a conscript with an Australian infantry unit in South Vietnam. A Huey chopper circled our ops zone, picked me up and my service and my mates became memories. No time to say farewell, no job to return to after two years of service and no welcome home. I penned these words: "Goodbye to mates, we quickly parted, then my war it really started. The soil I kissed so thankfully, never really greeted me."
Four decades later I interacted with a young commando of the Iraq war, a stranger, but a brother, really.
"I wondered as he walked from view, if my wisdom was his too, that sacrifice is what we do, and our pride just gets us through."
This letter is not self-aggrandisement. It projects a non-geographical, timeless empathy between soldiers of all conflicts against an enemy that would destroy us without us. I hope you can print it for the thousands of men and women who will be confronted with the great dilemma of being stood down, but not standing easy. Civvy street becomes a temporary void, a loss of identity, a feeling of being deserted. No one wants to know, because no one who's never been there could ever understand. An overhead chopper is a flash-back to a forgotten time, but only forgotten by those who were never there.The first step to renewal is to a therapist.
The camaraderie between all soldiers in combat zones will never be replaced in civvy-street.
Four decades later I interacted with a young commando of the Iraq war, a stranger, but a brother, really.
"I wondered as he walked from view, if my wisdom was his too, that sacrifice is what we do, and our pride just gets us through."
This letter is not self-aggrandisement. It projects a non-geographical, timeless empathy between soldiers of all conflicts against an enemy that would destroy us without us. I hope you can print it for the thousands of men and women who will be confronted with the great dilemma of being stood down, but not standing easy. Civvy street becomes a temporary void, a loss of identity, a feeling of being deserted. No one wants to know, because no one who's never been there could ever understand. An overhead chopper is a flash-back to a forgotten time, but only forgotten by those who were never there.The first step to renewal is to a therapist.
The camaraderie between all soldiers in combat zones will never be replaced in civvy-street.
1
One of the more moving but devastating articles I have ever read in the NYT or anywhere else.
This Vietnam Vet went through nothing in terms of the combat hell described here but did survive numerous rocket attacks and knows many of my generation who came back alive but devastatingly damaged by war, especially pointless war. I make the following comments:
1. Although not highlighted, I kept seeing references to multiple tours of duty as common and frequent, sometimes with only 8 months between deployments back to hell. That has to be a contributing cause in at least a few cases and probably many more. Why do we as a nation allow that to happen? Is it because we know a Draft to provide adequate troop levels will make these wars politically poisonous? I suspect so and that is obscene. Nam may have had a few "career" vets who redeployed, usually by choice, but never anything like this. What we did have was a growing public recognition of the folly of it all and riots at home because everyone had skin in the game, except draft dodgers like Bush, Cheney & Rumsfeld. Todays Cruzes, Fiorinas and other clueless chicken hawks would be largely ignored.
2. The VA is a mess because it is overwhelmed and underfunded. That has been fact since I came home from Nam in 1970. Worse, the therapy and treatments seem to be more like witch doctoring than anything else.
It needs more funding, not closing as some suggest.
In the meantime, I salute those who serve in spite of it all.
This Vietnam Vet went through nothing in terms of the combat hell described here but did survive numerous rocket attacks and knows many of my generation who came back alive but devastatingly damaged by war, especially pointless war. I make the following comments:
1. Although not highlighted, I kept seeing references to multiple tours of duty as common and frequent, sometimes with only 8 months between deployments back to hell. That has to be a contributing cause in at least a few cases and probably many more. Why do we as a nation allow that to happen? Is it because we know a Draft to provide adequate troop levels will make these wars politically poisonous? I suspect so and that is obscene. Nam may have had a few "career" vets who redeployed, usually by choice, but never anything like this. What we did have was a growing public recognition of the folly of it all and riots at home because everyone had skin in the game, except draft dodgers like Bush, Cheney & Rumsfeld. Todays Cruzes, Fiorinas and other clueless chicken hawks would be largely ignored.
2. The VA is a mess because it is overwhelmed and underfunded. That has been fact since I came home from Nam in 1970. Worse, the therapy and treatments seem to be more like witch doctoring than anything else.
It needs more funding, not closing as some suggest.
In the meantime, I salute those who serve in spite of it all.
11
These young men have experienced traumas we civilians cannot imagine. When they come back, they are dumped, yes, dumped, back into civilian life. They should be instead kept, on full pay, in the military, in a program that provides psychological and physical treatment, companionship with others of their kind, work that is meaningful, a way to move in and out of "normal" life until they are stabilized. And if they are not, keeping them safe and loved. Loneliness is a killer for any member of a social species. Vast differences in experience create fatal gaps. The VA official who is quoted in this article saying that finding out from military officials details of soldiers' combat lives "is not our mission" is sick and dangerous. And he is not the only one.
4
There was a draft when I served in Vietnam. It seemed like every family had a loved one in that war.
The draft ended in 1972. Today <1% of Americans serve in combat. Which is exactly the way Neo-Cons like Cheney and Wolfowitz want it. It is virtually impossible for families related to that tiny percentile to mount an effective protest to an unjust war.
With most Americans lounging at the beach or feasting at a tailgate, I understand the despair and hopelessness of The Lost Battalion. And I pray that Manny Bojorquez will keep his promise to Mrs Markel. At least that will save one family from the anguish of a son lost to suicide.
I have my own personal gripes with the VA and I let them know about it. And when I hit my knees at night I pray for solders like those in the 2/7. When this great nation comes together by serving together, then we will end worthless wars and sad tragedies like The Lost Battalion.
The draft ended in 1972. Today <1% of Americans serve in combat. Which is exactly the way Neo-Cons like Cheney and Wolfowitz want it. It is virtually impossible for families related to that tiny percentile to mount an effective protest to an unjust war.
With most Americans lounging at the beach or feasting at a tailgate, I understand the despair and hopelessness of The Lost Battalion. And I pray that Manny Bojorquez will keep his promise to Mrs Markel. At least that will save one family from the anguish of a son lost to suicide.
I have my own personal gripes with the VA and I let them know about it. And when I hit my knees at night I pray for solders like those in the 2/7. When this great nation comes together by serving together, then we will end worthless wars and sad tragedies like The Lost Battalion.
9
I think many of these problems are due to the voluntary military of today. Many who join the military bring with them some serious issues they hope to conquer with military service. When the service is over, the problems not only remain but are magnified.
I've recently been reading a novel about WWII in England. That country had already lost nearly a generation of young men, sent into battle totally unprepared. Now, they not only were fighting battles with daily casualty counts greater than the total list in recent wars, but had the added worry for those left behind, who were themselves in a war zone due to nightly bombings.
Yet the majority of these men came back and went on with their lives, which were productive and not wrought was the disorders these young men are experiencing.
When we have universal conscription, we get a far larger number of people who do not bring problems with them that they're hoping being in the military will resolve. They're brighter, they're more emotionally stable. They do their duty to their country and the go home and once again lead normal lives.
I'm well aware that there is no national will for universal. But wars and conflicts will continue to exist, we are considered the world's peacekeepers, and isolationism is not a viable option. I do believe we can lay this problem firmly at the feet of the all-volunteer military. Perhaps we need to concentrate on better psychological assessment of these volunteers.
I've recently been reading a novel about WWII in England. That country had already lost nearly a generation of young men, sent into battle totally unprepared. Now, they not only were fighting battles with daily casualty counts greater than the total list in recent wars, but had the added worry for those left behind, who were themselves in a war zone due to nightly bombings.
Yet the majority of these men came back and went on with their lives, which were productive and not wrought was the disorders these young men are experiencing.
When we have universal conscription, we get a far larger number of people who do not bring problems with them that they're hoping being in the military will resolve. They're brighter, they're more emotionally stable. They do their duty to their country and the go home and once again lead normal lives.
I'm well aware that there is no national will for universal. But wars and conflicts will continue to exist, we are considered the world's peacekeepers, and isolationism is not a viable option. I do believe we can lay this problem firmly at the feet of the all-volunteer military. Perhaps we need to concentrate on better psychological assessment of these volunteers.
There should be entrepreneurship opportunities geared for Veterans:
Instead of trying to fit them into the way world operates, providing them with
opportunities to work with other veterans. They may feel let down in the common workplace where commitment of individual employees are to themselves and to their boss and far less to each other. In the common workplace commitment to each other does not for sure determine the difference between being alive or dead. It is also too much to expect this from others in ordinary workplace(they are mostly there to just make a living and most decisions in ordinary workplace don't call into question survival).
When when one thinks of entrepreneurship, it does not to have be software. it could be a small restaurant, transportation, etc., where the mode of work also fits the way they had previously worked: instead of 9-5, maybe much longer stretches at a time with much much longer breaks as well.
Instead of trying to fit them into the way world operates, providing them with
opportunities to work with other veterans. They may feel let down in the common workplace where commitment of individual employees are to themselves and to their boss and far less to each other. In the common workplace commitment to each other does not for sure determine the difference between being alive or dead. It is also too much to expect this from others in ordinary workplace(they are mostly there to just make a living and most decisions in ordinary workplace don't call into question survival).
When when one thinks of entrepreneurship, it does not to have be software. it could be a small restaurant, transportation, etc., where the mode of work also fits the way they had previously worked: instead of 9-5, maybe much longer stretches at a time with much much longer breaks as well.
Lots of mixed feelings here for me.
I was with Golf Co. 2/7 Vietnam, 1968. Painful to realize that little has changed. This article could have been written then, over 40 years ago.
War is the enemy. It can be defeated, I am confident of that. Human Beings are just too wonderful to force into the nightmare of war.
I am also confident that in 40 years, there will be articles like this written about Marines having survived wars and revolutions of that time. We are led by opportunistic nincompoops and special interests who seem to view our lives as inconsequential. Bring back the draft and force the children of the rich and powerful to face the same risks and traumas. Maybe then the suicides stop, maybe then the wars are ended.
Hugh Massengill, Eugene
I was with Golf Co. 2/7 Vietnam, 1968. Painful to realize that little has changed. This article could have been written then, over 40 years ago.
War is the enemy. It can be defeated, I am confident of that. Human Beings are just too wonderful to force into the nightmare of war.
I am also confident that in 40 years, there will be articles like this written about Marines having survived wars and revolutions of that time. We are led by opportunistic nincompoops and special interests who seem to view our lives as inconsequential. Bring back the draft and force the children of the rich and powerful to face the same risks and traumas. Maybe then the suicides stop, maybe then the wars are ended.
Hugh Massengill, Eugene
14
A notable factor that almost all of these tragic suicides have in common is having a firearm handy at home just waiting to be used impulsively for any sudden surge of depression. Future clinical studies of vet suicides should determine whether there is a significantly higher suicide rate for combat returnees who keep firearms at home compared with those who do not. Separate from the general national discussion of gun ownership, if vets who keep firearms at home are found to kill themselves at a higher rate, then therapy and recovery should include coming to an agreement to not keep pistols and shotguns at home. This shouldn't preclude being able to hunt with firearms safely stored away from the home which many vets enjoy. But I do remember my cousin telling me that her father, once an avid hunter, gave away his shotgun and never again spoke of hunting after he returned from combat in World War II.
3
Given the number of suicides, it would seem the military would make more trauma-based therapies, such as EMDR, available, as this works far more quickly than other types of "talk" therapy.
I hope these men are reaching out to crisis lines, especially Suicide Prevention, as suicide is an act of impulse, frequently done in the moment. It is hard for the average person to understand how quickly the desire to stop the pain comes over one more like a Tsunami than a "Big Sur" - type wave. It is an onslaught that requires immediate help, not "30 day" appointments.
This is disgusting, given that suicide is becoming a national issue, especially in the military.
I hope these men are reaching out to crisis lines, especially Suicide Prevention, as suicide is an act of impulse, frequently done in the moment. It is hard for the average person to understand how quickly the desire to stop the pain comes over one more like a Tsunami than a "Big Sur" - type wave. It is an onslaught that requires immediate help, not "30 day" appointments.
This is disgusting, given that suicide is becoming a national issue, especially in the military.
5
This had me full on tears streaming down my face. Tough piece to get through. I only have admiration for these guys. My criticism is society. If we weren't a culture that expresses uneasiness with genuine affection between two males, perhaps the struggle would be easier for these guys. There existed a time when two men could hug each other, talk about deep feelings, express the truth of what they feel about things between each other with a confidence that it is private and a deeply formed bond. No one looked suspiciously or sexualized what is simply a beautiful feeling for a human being they love. The presence of women being a part of every male equation has damaged this delicate and rare relationship. We should encourage men to feel good about the guys they feel a love for. This story is absolutely heart breaking.
President Obama was left with the detritus of President Bush's wars. I'm 100 percent certain that he was unprepared for the scale, scope and depth of the problem.
Sending young men off to fight foreign wars on thin budgets leads to incredible, life-altering stress. How is it even conscionable that supplies and reinforcements were in short supply in Afghanistan due to the "surge" in Iraq?
So, fairly or not, President Obama will leave a legacy of inadequate attention to the needs of veterans, and this country will endure a painful scar for not having done enough.
Sending young men off to fight foreign wars on thin budgets leads to incredible, life-altering stress. How is it even conscionable that supplies and reinforcements were in short supply in Afghanistan due to the "surge" in Iraq?
So, fairly or not, President Obama will leave a legacy of inadequate attention to the needs of veterans, and this country will endure a painful scar for not having done enough.
1
Whike some may argue that the possession of firearms by some of these veterans made their attempts easier to carry out, it is equally inevitable that some will avoid treatment due to current campaign to deny veterans their second amendment right whole making it neatly impossible to restore once treatment is successful. Unless restoring rivhts is equally easy as it is to tske them away, many will a oid telling a creeners the truth rather than risking losing their property and rights as A prerequisite to treatment. It is sad it has come to this point and even sadder that we give Planned Parenthood half a billion dollars to fascilitate killing babies while neglecting our loyal veterans. Sad indeed. It seems noth I ng has changed since Vietnam when we retured to be spit on and ignored. Americans have devrloped very short memories and defevtive moral compasses.
Going back to WWII, knowledge of suicide risk focused on unit solidarity, the need to be an organic part of a larger group. The individual is in a very vulnerable position if left alone, separated from his unit, particularly after a situation involving lengthy combat stress.
The treatment of Vets should include a strong social component as part of therapy and re-integration. Medical care alone without the social component is likely to be inadequate, there is simply no good replacement for those buddies who shared the horrors of war with you. See the comments of EKB on the need for paid reunions for Vets. Would the Congress and the VA be willing to pay for these events as part of the cost of rehabilitation? Pilot studies could begin to test what works, and how well reunions could be structured for beneficial effects. After all, if we recognize the despair and anguish as a cost of war, then surely we would be willing to underwrite it as necessary care for those who were willing to make the ultimate sacrifice for us. Semper Fi!
The treatment of Vets should include a strong social component as part of therapy and re-integration. Medical care alone without the social component is likely to be inadequate, there is simply no good replacement for those buddies who shared the horrors of war with you. See the comments of EKB on the need for paid reunions for Vets. Would the Congress and the VA be willing to pay for these events as part of the cost of rehabilitation? Pilot studies could begin to test what works, and how well reunions could be structured for beneficial effects. After all, if we recognize the despair and anguish as a cost of war, then surely we would be willing to underwrite it as necessary care for those who were willing to make the ultimate sacrifice for us. Semper Fi!
How tragic that these young men, trying to do their best under impossible circumstances, should have their souls destroyed as they risked their lives, health, and futures to fight an impossible war.
As an older psychotherapist, I have thought about how I would like to help in some way. And I have other colleagues, older yet, and retired, who have reached out to the V.A. to volunteer, but often the bureaucracy makes it impossible.
Those of us who have been around a long time are aware of many problems with evidence-based practices, granted they are designed to be used by to offer consistent treatment, and there are good theoretical reasons for that. Unfortunately, what these young men, and in other cases, women, need, are therapists, ministers, rabbis, priests, nuns, etc, who are veterans themselves. Not necessarily combat veterans, but veterans of supporting others through tragedy and loss, psyche to psyche, soul to soul, sharing their wisdom, life experience, and dare it be said, love, with these young adults that have sacrificed so much, experienced things that no human being should have to experience, and yet the reality is, they have experienced it, and they deserve our best efforts, no matter how unconventional. Some great examples: the work of Bessel van der Kolk, of the Trauma Center in Massachusetts, and the 'Honoring the Path of the Warrior Project' in California.
As an older psychotherapist, I have thought about how I would like to help in some way. And I have other colleagues, older yet, and retired, who have reached out to the V.A. to volunteer, but often the bureaucracy makes it impossible.
Those of us who have been around a long time are aware of many problems with evidence-based practices, granted they are designed to be used by to offer consistent treatment, and there are good theoretical reasons for that. Unfortunately, what these young men, and in other cases, women, need, are therapists, ministers, rabbis, priests, nuns, etc, who are veterans themselves. Not necessarily combat veterans, but veterans of supporting others through tragedy and loss, psyche to psyche, soul to soul, sharing their wisdom, life experience, and dare it be said, love, with these young adults that have sacrificed so much, experienced things that no human being should have to experience, and yet the reality is, they have experienced it, and they deserve our best efforts, no matter how unconventional. Some great examples: the work of Bessel van der Kolk, of the Trauma Center in Massachusetts, and the 'Honoring the Path of the Warrior Project' in California.
3
These men have bought into a 'salted' mine. GOP fool's gold only, at the bottom. As so many have invested as much as 20% and more of their lives-perhaps 40-50% of adult lives, carrying and using guns in Iraqifghanistan to chase the ghost soldiers of Islam, so they have no stake in any form of "civil society" and most don't know what such a concept even means. America has never before so completely allowed itself to rely on paid volunteers to fight it's wars and never before has it fought a war in which it knowingly allowed continuous fighting by non professional soldiers-as if it were a snake hunt and not war against humans.In WWII, forced the rotation of soldiers away from combat-it didn't always work but the Great war and Shell Shock were reminders what war did to a human. With volunteers, it was felt anything was allowed.
As these men admit to a preference for the sodality of military life- they might be aided in "decompressing" from the free for all of daily firefights and bloodshed by recruiting them as military smoke jumpers and firefighters. America is going through a period of increasing forest fires and It will be seen in the geological record. Since these men don't fit in-short of a war-the best we can give them is the numerous fires that need fighting in the Western states. It is dangerous, dirty and it is work that needs groups of men and officers. Such would be prefect employment for those disaccustomed to civil society or unwilling and unable to reenter it.
As these men admit to a preference for the sodality of military life- they might be aided in "decompressing" from the free for all of daily firefights and bloodshed by recruiting them as military smoke jumpers and firefighters. America is going through a period of increasing forest fires and It will be seen in the geological record. Since these men don't fit in-short of a war-the best we can give them is the numerous fires that need fighting in the Western states. It is dangerous, dirty and it is work that needs groups of men and officers. Such would be prefect employment for those disaccustomed to civil society or unwilling and unable to reenter it.
1
Thank you for this sad, stirring, and honest piece. Well-written, personal, non-politicized stuff like this helps veterans to NOT be forgotten. One reader at a time.
6
In the Middle Ages, when knights had no battles to fight, they would sometimes band together and form "Companies" and turn on the cities they were originally supposed to protect, laying siege, slaughtering when necessary, and basically just continuing to perform knightly duties on their own. Humans are not robots. There is no switch to throw that turns you from someone that kills other people to someone who doesn't. It is a disgrace that our leaders throw these kids into such terrible life-altering duty to puff up their own profile of masculinity. And even worse that they do not help them when they come home changed.
I don't believe in God, but I hope that they men and women who struggled together get the help that they need and stay connected. Try and stay connected to the people who understand you.
I don't believe in God, but I hope that they men and women who struggled together get the help that they need and stay connected. Try and stay connected to the people who understand you.
130
Many native American nations required that braves, returning from a war hunt, went to a sweat lodge before rejoining the tribe. Surely we could do as well, but first we may have to recognize that war is as hard on the "winners" as the "losers" and that many of the "manly" pursuits - war, football, boxing, etc.- come at very high cost, not just to the participants but to their families and to all of us.
U know why the issue is?? I've seeked help... The doctors try to just give you drugs to make it go away. I suffer everyday... I hurt physically and I can't think sometimes and it's hard. I served several combat tours in the corps and retired. Then I went to a doctor at the hospital on fort Bragg because tricare told me to go there. Only because I am by a base .. I was told I'm here to medicate you not fix you by a PA!! I left and will never go back. The VA takes forever to make an appointment and get seen and if you do get seen.. Every 3 years u get a new doctor and have to start all over again the system is broken.... We need help not congress sitting on their kiesters making empty promises to us. I didnt ask to become this way. I served my country honorably and would gladly lay my life down in defense so people can have freedom in this country. But I got hurt in the process and we need to get help to get fixed is all we want.. and we become third class citizens and drugged up to make us go away... And wait forever for Inaffective treatments... We are marines first of all not average civilians we are bred to do a focused job... We need people who see that not sit down and just make us draw with crayons.... It doesn't work.... We are marines we will either eat them or try to use them in an effective way to accomplish a mission by improvising and adapting and overcoming....Not color....
Jeb,
Thanks for reminding us what a great patriot, protector of i
Thanks for reminding us what a great patriot, protector of i
A great online resource/support. Created by a combat vet for vets.
7
Anything attached to the VA and or government is tainted.
When you call the VA to make an appointment, they get you in the 30 day window (yayyyyy). THEN, they call on day 29 and cancel. This will happen over and over until you go into the facility. And then, the "doctors" and other staff are typical government workers that are more concerned about break time than the old timer sitting in the chair needing assistance or being on time for an appointment (my last wait time was over an hour).
We pull our men out of countries with a timetable that puts them at risk and then 5 years later, these same politicians re-engaged, with American lives and treasure, the same battle space.
What we see as the biggest travesty, Soldiers and Marines paying the price, voluntarily while our politicians and senior military leaders, get free passes while shixxting down their own leg.
No one remember when suicides began to outpace combat deaths????
Instead, news is about as deep as a high-school popularity contest with all the smoke and mirrors, makeup and lies to boot.
I find it disgusting and ironic that Soldiers and Marines are being sxct on by those very same people they are sworn to protect.
Have a great day!
When you call the VA to make an appointment, they get you in the 30 day window (yayyyyy). THEN, they call on day 29 and cancel. This will happen over and over until you go into the facility. And then, the "doctors" and other staff are typical government workers that are more concerned about break time than the old timer sitting in the chair needing assistance or being on time for an appointment (my last wait time was over an hour).
We pull our men out of countries with a timetable that puts them at risk and then 5 years later, these same politicians re-engaged, with American lives and treasure, the same battle space.
What we see as the biggest travesty, Soldiers and Marines paying the price, voluntarily while our politicians and senior military leaders, get free passes while shixxting down their own leg.
No one remember when suicides began to outpace combat deaths????
Instead, news is about as deep as a high-school popularity contest with all the smoke and mirrors, makeup and lies to boot.
I find it disgusting and ironic that Soldiers and Marines are being sxct on by those very same people they are sworn to protect.
Have a great day!
39
Again with the worthless Government Bureaucrats. We've elected leadership where half of our representatives don't want to give an extra dime to the function of governing and spend their time trying to actively destroy Government institutions. And then we wonder why Government doesn't work?
1
Sounds like you need to get in for some care.
dear MF...thank you for writing from your heart. in our country today, not many people are able to listen to people in pain. if they do listen, they offer advice. while all the time, you have tried the advice and found it lacking, feeling the pain to be unrelenting. i'm a civilian. I've had emotional pain, but nothing like you. my husband was a medic in korea, however, and we struggled with his terrifying levels of pain for years. he would have understood you. he said that he was flown home after his tour and got off the plane feeling like an animal, and staring at the civilians living their lives unaware of the seldom recognized war in korea. during the 32 years he and I were married, in our forties, he slowly revealed the events that tormented him with guilt and shame and fear. maybe because he continued in medicine and worked at the VA helping veterans with their health crises, he found a way to balance things out. he died in april, almost 80. a wonderful man who suffered a lot and also gave a lot to me and his family and friends. he was changed forever by his military experiences at age 17-21. but something helped him survive somehow. for you, I hope the same. I don't know why it happened, but I watched my husband come to terms with his memories, and live to enjoy, finally, the world he lived in, as imperfect as it is. the Buddhists say: life is suffering. that helps me too, to know that...take care...
If any question why we died,
Tell them because our fathers lied.
--Rudyard Kipling, "Epithets of War"
Tell them because our fathers lied.
--Rudyard Kipling, "Epithets of War"
256
Not helpful to tell men and women they died for a lie. These people served their country — they didn't serve the conflict. They worked to keep each other alive. We needed to hold the leadership we had in the country accountable. That never happened and it represents a double failure on the part of a large part of the American public.
The sacrifice of these men and women commands the acknowledgment and to be honored by the American public. So far as the wisdom of being there in the first place, the American public has only itself to accuse of failure.
The sacrifice of these men and women commands the acknowledgment and to be honored by the American public. So far as the wisdom of being there in the first place, the American public has only itself to accuse of failure.
It's Gallipoli (the real life slaughter, not the movie) all over again.
Although it is one of Gibson's better pics.
Although it is one of Gibson's better pics.
Don't blame "the American public." I (and I suspect Randall) demonstrated against the war. Our part of the American public did everything we did to stop the war. I don't know what you did.
But our politicians chose instead to follow their billionaire corporate campaign contributors. Halliburton and Blackwater did very well in this war.
The only presidential candidates that opposed the war are Bernie Sanders among the Democratic candidates, and Ron Paul among the Republican candidates. You can send your message accordingly.
But our politicians chose instead to follow their billionaire corporate campaign contributors. Halliburton and Blackwater did very well in this war.
The only presidential candidates that opposed the war are Bernie Sanders among the Democratic candidates, and Ron Paul among the Republican candidates. You can send your message accordingly.
1
Far above the more than 2 trillion dollars wasted in the wars is this most serious problem left to us be the wars. We must find solutions for these honorable men.
30
Our emotionally and physically shattered veterans are the most visible of the most tragedies caused by these wars and deserve our full support. But other casualties of the wars are less visible: the money we wasted could have gone to cancer and Alzheimer's research, improving the infrastructure, supporting mental health clinics, helping at-risk children, job training -- the list is almost endless. No one will ever know how many lives were actually lost because we threw away trillions. Not to mean that we should now waste our time with teeth-gnashing and endless, fruitless, self-laceration. But we should do our best to make sure we never rush to war again.
1
Mr. Phillips, I hope your well researched article inspires noticeable change for these men and women of the Armed Forces. Our statement as the greatest country in the world is incomplete if this is how we treat the veterans who served to make us great.
24
Don, what every ground combat vet who has seen significant incoming and outgoing knows, is that you just are not going to fix much of this. No matter what you do.
The issue is that this is always what is going to happen when people go off to see extended ground combat.
There is one effective way to,put a stop to this PTSD. And only one.
The issue is that this is always what is going to happen when people go off to see extended ground combat.
There is one effective way to,put a stop to this PTSD. And only one.
Politicians and diplomats have come to accept the consequences of warfare and chalk it up to the casualties of combat. Whether a soldier dies on the battlefield or at home it does not matter. They have given up their lives in service to the military. It couldn't be service to the country not when politicians and diplomats refuse to send their own children in harms way. And it certainly isn't on behalf of a nation, many of whom do not want the U.S. involved in foreign wars.
Soldiers have become estranged from the population they claim to serve, most tellingly from their resentment and defensiveness when someone dares to thank them for their service. This is another symptom that Americans, military and civilian have become less compassionate people.
Terrible tragedy here. Clearly mental health professionals are woefully unprepared but this has been going on for the past 40 years.
Americans are tired of warfare and many do not support our involvement in foreign wars. The soldiers who enlist know the risks they are taking, or should anyway. It is sad to see what is happening to them, but they know or should know that they are pawns in politicians game.
Soldiers have become estranged from the population they claim to serve, most tellingly from their resentment and defensiveness when someone dares to thank them for their service. This is another symptom that Americans, military and civilian have become less compassionate people.
Terrible tragedy here. Clearly mental health professionals are woefully unprepared but this has been going on for the past 40 years.
Americans are tired of warfare and many do not support our involvement in foreign wars. The soldiers who enlist know the risks they are taking, or should anyway. It is sad to see what is happening to them, but they know or should know that they are pawns in politicians game.
56
The military always serves the American public. In the days after 9/11, there was near unanimity about holding those responsible accountable. The fact that the conflict was expanded over a lie, the American public never held those responsible accountable. No, we reelected the individuals responsible for that lie.
None of us get to sit there now and say the military was not serving them.
None of us get to sit there now and say the military was not serving them.
I doubt that "these soldiers" (Marines) who enlist fully understand the the risks (and consequences) when they enlist since they are young men with little life experience. We could solve the perpetual war issue by bringing back the draft. If it's a conflict that necessitates sending young men (and women) off to war, then the sacrifice should be shared by all. That would end it, plain and simple.
Psychiatrists are well trained to treat mental disorders such as depression, PTSD, and substance abuse. These disorders occur in both civilians and the military. The problem is that there is a severe shortage of psychiatrists now.
The waste of such potential and courage breaks my heart. Truly a battalion forgotten by those who exploited their youth and strength.
Bless these wounded young men, trying to save themselves and each other in the face of such darkness and abandonment. Such a raw and sweet nobility in their caring for each other.
I sincerely hope this article shames those responsible for this travesty, and the remaining men and others are helped. Their story is so hard to read. Thank you for telling it.
Bless these wounded young men, trying to save themselves and each other in the face of such darkness and abandonment. Such a raw and sweet nobility in their caring for each other.
I sincerely hope this article shames those responsible for this travesty, and the remaining men and others are helped. Their story is so hard to read. Thank you for telling it.
91
never forgotten by other vets
my heart is breaking for these men. as a nurse, I get the frustration of them going to professionals who don' t have a clue of what they have experienced. I see it happening all the time. If we as healthcare providers can't put ourselves in our clients's shoes so to speak, how are we able to offer solace and advice to help them move on? All of them said they felt alone, all of them said they felt somewhat better being with their former combat buddies. Maybe there should be several large farms/sanctuaries across the country where all who are suffering can go and rest for as long as they need surrounded by soldiers who have been through combat and who could help each other along with qualified professionals and other caring individuals who can ease their way back to reaching their potential and finding meaning once again. A beautiful heart wrenching article. I hope that this will be a wake up call to help those who are trying to keep our world safe.
103
This is not a medical problem. This is a deployment problem. The chances of coming home with at least some level of these symptoms after significant combat is like a swimmer getting wet when they jump in the pool. It's going to happen.
You want to fix this?
Quit sending them. Otherwise just realize this is the price we as a nation pay when we do send them. Well not actually we. More them.
You want to fix this?
Quit sending them. Otherwise just realize this is the price we as a nation pay when we do send them. Well not actually we. More them.
1
So if a doctor hasn't experienced a disease, he or she isn't qualified to treat it? There are many oncologists who never had cancer and many cardiologists who don't have heart disease. And if we required primary care docs to experience all the diseases they treat, they'd be dead before they finished training.
Chris Hedges wrote a book "War Is A Force That Gives Us Meaning" that details the kind of love/hate relationship that soldiers (and combat journalists) develop in war.
After I read his book, I've continued to think about it and wonder what our society can do to help combat veterans. It seems like we keep doing everything wrong. We get into unnecessary wars. We don't support troops well on the battlefield (poor equipment, use of tactics best suited to the last war and not the current one, etc.). We don't offer a standard "return camp" where soldiers spend a number of weeks together learning how to transition back to civilian life. We don't offer timely medical / mental care. We have a highly competitive job market that looks for resumes that exactly match a given job description so that soldiering often doesn't translate well as experience for civilian jobs. That same competitive job market also screens out people with any kind of troubled past (drug testing, history of mental illness, past police records, etc.).
We've created a perfect storm of obstacles that all add to the emotional turmoil of participating in war. At the very least, the military and the US government need to sit down with groups of soldiers and work with them to come up with ways to address all of the above shortcomings.
After I read his book, I've continued to think about it and wonder what our society can do to help combat veterans. It seems like we keep doing everything wrong. We get into unnecessary wars. We don't support troops well on the battlefield (poor equipment, use of tactics best suited to the last war and not the current one, etc.). We don't offer a standard "return camp" where soldiers spend a number of weeks together learning how to transition back to civilian life. We don't offer timely medical / mental care. We have a highly competitive job market that looks for resumes that exactly match a given job description so that soldiering often doesn't translate well as experience for civilian jobs. That same competitive job market also screens out people with any kind of troubled past (drug testing, history of mental illness, past police records, etc.).
We've created a perfect storm of obstacles that all add to the emotional turmoil of participating in war. At the very least, the military and the US government need to sit down with groups of soldiers and work with them to come up with ways to address all of the above shortcomings.
66
It is depressing to think that many of these military men and women came back to work in a sandwich shop.
In the long run PTSD is a killer. 6 of my 8 buddies I served with in Viet Nam are no longer with us. One took his own life during combat combat. Two died young, within three years of returning home. The other three did the kill yourself slowly routine with booze, butts, and bad habits over thirty years. Their Obit read "natural causes," but there is nothing natural about combat beside PTSD.
Don't waste your time with the VA. They are useless. I've tried, but my version of suffering doesn't fit their system for helping or healing. What is helpful is to take care of your body, mind and soul, help others, work hard to live a good life and always be thankful that you made it back home to America. This country, with all its false, is a good place, its worth it. I am glad I served it and thank you for serving it.
Don't waste your time with the VA. They are useless. I've tried, but my version of suffering doesn't fit their system for helping or healing. What is helpful is to take care of your body, mind and soul, help others, work hard to live a good life and always be thankful that you made it back home to America. This country, with all its false, is a good place, its worth it. I am glad I served it and thank you for serving it.
163
According to leading GOP candidate Donald "I had three draft deferments and my business career is the equivalent of serving my country in the military" Trump, anyone with PTSD is a loser.
Lots of vets would disagree with you about the VA. You may be preventing someone from getting help at the VA. Grow up.
Tom....Can't help saying... a freudian slip? ....'this country with all its false, is a good place'
Good for some, in some circumstances...not for others?
I wonder what other advanced countries do to help their veterans and what their vet suicide rates are. Or should we keep that undiscussed?
Good for some, in some circumstances...not for others?
I wonder what other advanced countries do to help their veterans and what their vet suicide rates are. Or should we keep that undiscussed?
I write because I want these men to know this article, the photographs, their statement has been seen. I write to say I know this pain, this void, the feeling it will never get better, never change. I write because it can change. It can be cornered and made part of the life but not all of it.
The dead leave gifts behind. Their stories, their lives are signposts in our hands, a part of mapping the way. We, empty, are free to be anything we want. We, empty, are free to see a better life and I believe we do that. I believe we don’t fight for ideas. We fight for focus, for the drive to move, to believe it’s worth doing and in the beginning good reasons can’t be part of that. Maybe in the beginning it’s the simple act of doing something though we don’t see a reason. Isn't that what honors the men left behind? To be thoughtless about the past is what we seek. Getting there is to be thoughtless about moving forward. Maybe that is the most courageous act of all right now.
The dead leave gifts behind. Their stories, their lives are signposts in our hands, a part of mapping the way. We, empty, are free to be anything we want. We, empty, are free to see a better life and I believe we do that. I believe we don’t fight for ideas. We fight for focus, for the drive to move, to believe it’s worth doing and in the beginning good reasons can’t be part of that. Maybe in the beginning it’s the simple act of doing something though we don’t see a reason. Isn't that what honors the men left behind? To be thoughtless about the past is what we seek. Getting there is to be thoughtless about moving forward. Maybe that is the most courageous act of all right now.
17
I'd like to say it's all an accident. I'd like to say it's just this unit. I'd like to say the VA is OK if not great. I'd like to say I don't understand why these men would kill themselves - but believe me, I do understand.
Even 40+ years later, I wake up some nights and wonder if I truly deserve to live, if the things my hands did under orders from on high can ever be expiated? For whatever reason, I always chose to keep living if for no other reason the responsibility of the gift of my life and perhaps part of theirs.
I don't have an answer for these men. I've had those who survived with me later drunken and/or drugged kill themselves. If they'd have talked to me - maybe we could have helped each other.
All I can say to these and those who survived the sandbox and the angry hills of Afghanistan is that you are important. You must live. You must affirm what the politician and all those who've never "seen the elephant" don't know: human beings are not innately capable of slaughtering one another. To be forced to do so compromises our very souls.
Semper Fi isn't just faithful to the Marines. More important, it is faithfulness to life - yours and our people.
Even 40+ years later, I wake up some nights and wonder if I truly deserve to live, if the things my hands did under orders from on high can ever be expiated? For whatever reason, I always chose to keep living if for no other reason the responsibility of the gift of my life and perhaps part of theirs.
I don't have an answer for these men. I've had those who survived with me later drunken and/or drugged kill themselves. If they'd have talked to me - maybe we could have helped each other.
All I can say to these and those who survived the sandbox and the angry hills of Afghanistan is that you are important. You must live. You must affirm what the politician and all those who've never "seen the elephant" don't know: human beings are not innately capable of slaughtering one another. To be forced to do so compromises our very souls.
Semper Fi isn't just faithful to the Marines. More important, it is faithfulness to life - yours and our people.
456
Robert,
First, thank you very much for your service.
Second, thank you for this incredibly eloquent post.
Last, this is so very sad. No words.
First, thank you very much for your service.
Second, thank you for this incredibly eloquent post.
Last, this is so very sad. No words.
1
Before sending its young men and women into these situations, the people of this nation should understand and affirm this as well. Only then would we be able to take meaningful responsibility for the choices we make in the use of military power, and extend appropriate gratitude and support for returning veterans.
1
Thank you so much for this comment and for your service.
Thank you, Dave Philipps, for a remarkable piece. The point that only a small minority of veterans experienced close infantry combat or the equivalent is important. And, at least from military records, we don’t know who they are. It is easier from available records to find out what a Civil War veteran experienced than a Vietnam veteran (and probably Iraq and Afghanistan vets as well). It is not unusual for those applying for medical care or a disability rating to be required to provide signed statements from eyewitnesses to their combat experience.
Naturally, as Philipps points out, no one has figured out whether combat veterans act differently and need different care.
If a career officer does not enroll promptly upon retirement, the VA reaches out aggressively to ensure that he or she is offered all available services. It could identify surviving members of the 2/7 and do the same. Philipps does not mention the battalion’s senior NCOs or officers. They could be identified and asked (or, if still on active duty, ordered) to help—understanding that no one is sure what they could do. Lets do more than leave these kids alone to figure out how to help each other.
Naturally, as Philipps points out, no one has figured out whether combat veterans act differently and need different care.
If a career officer does not enroll promptly upon retirement, the VA reaches out aggressively to ensure that he or she is offered all available services. It could identify surviving members of the 2/7 and do the same. Philipps does not mention the battalion’s senior NCOs or officers. They could be identified and asked (or, if still on active duty, ordered) to help—understanding that no one is sure what they could do. Lets do more than leave these kids alone to figure out how to help each other.
38
All of these poor children who went off to war with such high ideals of the United States of America and it's role in helping the world who came back disillusioned and broken need our help. Simply reminding them that WE ALL are behind them is not enough. Actively run down your Congressman/Woman and let them know how we feel 'we as a nation' should deal with the extreme shortcomings in the care of our soldiers.
That being said, there is a larger issue at hand. It is the destruction of wages for middle class people in this country. The greed it took to destroy a country such as ours is enormous and should be visible to all. Let your them know about this as well, for ALL of US.
That being said, there is a larger issue at hand. It is the destruction of wages for middle class people in this country. The greed it took to destroy a country such as ours is enormous and should be visible to all. Let your them know about this as well, for ALL of US.
5
I pray these men, who gave up so much for us, find peace
12
I have no answers. However raising awareness is a movement in the right direction. Bravo to the Times, its Editors and writers for this important expose. My prayers, love and highest regard to the heroes who served and those courageous souls who shared their stories.
Part of the illness is the illusion you are alone. Keep reaching out. Isolation is your new enemy. I pray the Times will chase this story for decades.
Part of the illness is the illusion you are alone. Keep reaching out. Isolation is your new enemy. I pray the Times will chase this story for decades.
14
This was a beautiful and tragic story. Thank you for telling it. I wish I could do something to help.
6
Living The Golden Rule is the best medicine.
3
For every complex problem there is a simple solution...that is ridiculous and will not work.
what the hell is there to say-To wait for 24 hours for help from a medical facility funded by our tax dollars is so outrageous that I am left seething while reading this article. The frustration and anguish flows off the pages . This battalion deserves a lot more than the lousy air cover they got while in battle.
24
Thank you for this well-researched article. My heart goes out to the brave young men and their families - to those who took their own lives after surviving the horror and incredible trauma of combat and to those who are surviving even now one day at a time. The system has to help returning veterans of combat process their feelings of shame, betrayal, rage, grief - thru any means necessary!
9
When Lindsey Graham leads the Republican Light Brigade into a war-footing that's going to send another 20,000 young people off into the fog of war, he sure better be talking about how he's going to see to their medical and mental health care during deployment and upon their return. Not talking about it is tantamount to throwing thousands of our young under the bus just to see if hawkish, right-wing thinking was right.
148
Iraq and Afghanistan are picnics compared to what would happen to us in Iran. The Iranians will fight back, big-time. They have the will, intelligence, and capability to fight, especially with the help of their friends the Russians and Chinese. Expect to lose 10-30 times as many Americans in ground fighting as we have in the Cheney-Bush Wars, and their sophisticated anti-ship missiles will likely send quite a few of our vessels and their crews to the bottom of the sea. And of course, we will not "win" such a war any more than we could in Vietnam. Why are these politicians so dumb and ignorant?
1
All Congressmen and Senators should have to serve in the United States Marine Corps ,preferably 2/7 and if they vote to invade another country they should also be required to fight alongside the grunts who do the fighting and witness the killing and destruction they endorsed. The fact that most politicians never have served in the military leaves me wondering what makes them qualified to send our young men into combat . As anyone can see these men many times don’t come home uninjured . Having served in 2/7 myself I know that nothing will ever be the same in your life when you see your men killed and knowing you are killing other men , supposedly the enemy . And in the end when that grunt does get home he finds out that most people in the US
are tired of our country constantly being at war ,and don’t really care anymore .
are tired of our country constantly being at war ,and don’t really care anymore .
1
These are soul injuries. Killing for no reason, only to stay alive and protect your comrades leads to this.
29
I agree, Wabi-Sabi, and I cast no blame on these young men for their soul injury. The human brain is not fully formed until the early 20s, and the pre-frontal lobes, the part of the brain that can override the rampages of the most primal parts may never get an opportunity to develop fully when subjected to adrenaline-soaked, hyper-alert states of kill or be killed.
No talk therapy is going to ease their pain, or at least not until their bodies learn to manage the biological rampage created within their own systems. Guerrero's running is a good start, and the social connections with others who *know* the sensations that run through their bodies is absolutely fantastic. But more is needed, including retraining the neural circuits of the brain to fire in a more highly evolved and organized pattern.
If we have to have wars, maybe no one under 25 should go into any combat situation. These souls deserve the opportunity to flourish.
No talk therapy is going to ease their pain, or at least not until their bodies learn to manage the biological rampage created within their own systems. Guerrero's running is a good start, and the social connections with others who *know* the sensations that run through their bodies is absolutely fantastic. But more is needed, including retraining the neural circuits of the brain to fire in a more highly evolved and organized pattern.
If we have to have wars, maybe no one under 25 should go into any combat situation. These souls deserve the opportunity to flourish.
Seeing all of your sacrifice tossed away by an ideological Commander in Chief leads to this.
They killed because YOU through your elected leaders, sent them to kill. No absolution for us because we elected, and reelected the leaders that were making these decisions.
I'm a Marine vet. But I never saw combat, for which I'm grateful. I don't know the first thing about helping these vets. But what's scary to me is that neither does the Marine Corps, nor the VA. I get that we've spent millions on attempting to reduce suicides, help vets with PTSD and so on, but it clearly hasn't worked, and it clearly hasn't been enough. I can't even find out if vets have a higher incidence of suicide because of military service or if people more prone to suicide are more likely to join military service.
Either way, we owe these guys figuring it out. We owe these guys more and more competent mental health services. Not because they're heroes, but because they had no choice in the matter. I didn't choose not to be in combat. I went where the Marine Corps sent me, just like they did.
I pray we, as a nation, are good enough to get them the help they need.
Either way, we owe these guys figuring it out. We owe these guys more and more competent mental health services. Not because they're heroes, but because they had no choice in the matter. I didn't choose not to be in combat. I went where the Marine Corps sent me, just like they did.
I pray we, as a nation, are good enough to get them the help they need.
137
Citizen, these Marines did have a choice. And they made it when they signed the contract.
They made a conscious choice to join a military service well know for significant combat at the very tip of the spear.
Many made a choice as far as a combat arms mos.
And many made a choice when they raised their hand and vol for combat. Something 10,000s of Marines and Docs have done in the past and will do in the future.
I bet your mos does not start with 03? See you made a choice.
They made a conscious choice to join a military service well know for significant combat at the very tip of the spear.
Many made a choice as far as a combat arms mos.
And many made a choice when they raised their hand and vol for combat. Something 10,000s of Marines and Docs have done in the past and will do in the future.
I bet your mos does not start with 03? See you made a choice.
[[Concerned Citizen New York, NY
I'm a Marine vet. But I never saw combat, for which I'm grateful. I don't know the first thing about helping these vets. But what's scary to me is that neither does the Marine Corps, nor the VA.]]
I have an idea. These are mental health problems and addiction problems.
Treat them accordingly.
I'm a Marine vet. But I never saw combat, for which I'm grateful. I don't know the first thing about helping these vets. But what's scary to me is that neither does the Marine Corps, nor the VA.]]
I have an idea. These are mental health problems and addiction problems.
Treat them accordingly.
I know this sounds cold, but they did have a choice. They enlisted. Why? What delusion or fantasy moved their hands to sign up? Instead of tears for these victims, how about some for those who find themselves at the recruiters' desks? These are the future suicides that we will fuss and weep over. Why? Tell them today: don't enlist! Let's provide these good young people with options that truly serve their desires to be heroic. We need them, but not to be cannon fodder.
All politicians who feel compelled to send troops into harms way need to read this.
202
Listen to Martin Luther King's Riverside Speech against the Vietnam War on YouTube. It was the same story. He predicted what was going to happen to returning veterans. Same story 50 years later.
Yes, they should read this - EVERY SINGLE DAY.
Thank you, Dave Phillips, excellent article.
Thank you, Dave Phillips, excellent article.
We have each had our moments with emotional pain and varying degrees of depression. Sometimes the pain is so much that suicide seems a way to relieve the pain and grief. I know that the experiences of combat that our front line military experience is so much more than most Americans can imagine. My feeling is that for those who grieve for their lost brothers in arms and may have feelings of guilt about their loss that checking out may relieve your pain but does nothing for the others left behind and may even make their sorrow greater still. The families and other comrades may be hurting just as much but choose to honor their loved ones as best they can in life. If we can touch one other in some positive way, if nothing more than a hug or a handshake then enduring the pain to accomplish that is a worthy mission and a reason to experience all that only life has to offer.
10
I'm an Army infantry veteran who deployed to Afghanistan in 2009-10. What the men in this article experienced was far more consistently violent than what I did, but we have much in common. Given that many veterans and their families will likely read this excellent article, I wanted to share a few points:
1. Anxiety attacks are rarely rational. They're more like hitting a random cold spot in a pool while swimming. There are life circumstances that might precipitate attacks, but often it's just a slow downward trajectory with no single cause. As soon as it starts, reach out to someone you trust! You may worry about inconveniencing friends. Believe me: I'd much rather be inconvenienced than have to bury another brother in arms.
2. The VA varies *greatly* from place to place. My experiences with VA mental health care in NYC have been positive. That is not always the case, particularly in rural areas. An option for free mental health care outside of the VA is the Soldiers Project. They can link up veterans with providers willing to donate counseling time. https://www.thesoldiersproject.org/
3. Veterans can talk more easily with other veterans, but there's a much greater understanding among veterans who served together in the same unit. Sometimes just talking with someone who was also there can be therapeutic. If nothing else, there is already a profound amount of trust, which a stranger would have to build over time. Even with fellow vets, there are barriers. It takes time.
1. Anxiety attacks are rarely rational. They're more like hitting a random cold spot in a pool while swimming. There are life circumstances that might precipitate attacks, but often it's just a slow downward trajectory with no single cause. As soon as it starts, reach out to someone you trust! You may worry about inconveniencing friends. Believe me: I'd much rather be inconvenienced than have to bury another brother in arms.
2. The VA varies *greatly* from place to place. My experiences with VA mental health care in NYC have been positive. That is not always the case, particularly in rural areas. An option for free mental health care outside of the VA is the Soldiers Project. They can link up veterans with providers willing to donate counseling time. https://www.thesoldiersproject.org/
3. Veterans can talk more easily with other veterans, but there's a much greater understanding among veterans who served together in the same unit. Sometimes just talking with someone who was also there can be therapeutic. If nothing else, there is already a profound amount of trust, which a stranger would have to build over time. Even with fellow vets, there are barriers. It takes time.
179
It's sad that veterans need to seek care from those willing to provide their services for free.
We don't expect those who need surgery to find those who provide free services or if they have diabetes to find those who will treat this for free. Why should mental health services be any different?
We don't expect those who need surgery to find those who provide free services or if they have diabetes to find those who will treat this for free. Why should mental health services be any different?
Excellent, Nate. You highlight the therapeutic importance of working with other veterans -- especially with those with whom you served when it is possible to do so.
Also you may find useful an entry by "Luria" who also works with families to help them respond appropriately to their family members who have served in the U.S. Armed Forces and been emotionally traumatized. The families of vets also incur secondary trauma from living with traumatized vets. Women vets have been neglected - as have the R.N.s who have worked in combat areas and many of those who have taken care of hospitalized vets whose anger spills over onto the R.N.s, sometimes leading to physical as well as verbal assaults.
Pat : M.S.N., M.P.H., C.R.R.N.
Also you may find useful an entry by "Luria" who also works with families to help them respond appropriately to their family members who have served in the U.S. Armed Forces and been emotionally traumatized. The families of vets also incur secondary trauma from living with traumatized vets. Women vets have been neglected - as have the R.N.s who have worked in combat areas and many of those who have taken care of hospitalized vets whose anger spills over onto the R.N.s, sometimes leading to physical as well as verbal assaults.
Pat : M.S.N., M.P.H., C.R.R.N.
Chris Christie said let's declare "energy independence within 10 years" as our nation's Number One goal. Then we can bring these kids home to defend our borders and air space, and stop meddling in foreign lands. Seems like the best thing we can do for our current troops and future veterans.
2
While I think we should send our troops to war much less than we do, we can never simply sit at home and "defend our border." That will be a disaster.
This hits home. My son served with the USMC in Helmand. I will not identify his unit, but he also has had a hard time. He is a good guy though, and has had lots of support from us and those closest to him. I will pray for 2/7.
48
These men are not forgotten. This country values their lives and sacrifice. There may not have been parades in the lost Battalions honor; the grattitude of a nation that has been at war for over a decade celebrates nonetheless! While words in this forum will likely not provide comfort for those in this article, I pray that the men who remain close ranks and support one another to beat the pain and anguish that haunts them! Semper Fi Marines...you rose to meet a challenge few accept. By moving forward in life, you celebrate your fallen brothers!
10
Reading this brings me so much sadness. I am a wounded combat veteran from the war in Vietnam. I worked with other combat veterans over a 30 year career as a social worker/ therapist. The places are different, the times separated by years, but the anguish, pain, isolation, distrust, sense of shame and anger, of alienation, is the same. We now have " evidence based" therapies, so we lightly train newly graduated therapists in them,people who have no real understanding of the military, war or combat, and ask them to solve the riddle they don't understand. That these veterans are helping each other is a good thing, but not enough. Notice the comments about using alcohol to cope, a terrible idea. The VA program, Vet Centers, is often staffed by therapists that are themselves veterans, often combat veterans, I hope theses men reach out to them for help, as they help themselves.
184
I really feel for these persons.
Since 1964 the U.S. government has thrown away the lives of many of its finest people on one senseless military intervention after another as the U.S. defined itself as a country in a permanent state of undeclared war for the benefit of no one except Wall Street and the corporations.
It has to hurt to wake up mentally one day and discover that no matter how heroic the actions you and your comrades have performed, in a war that is not heroic in any sense there are no real heroes, just collateral damage.
After all, the main difference between waking up in the hospital after a drunk driving accident and waking up in the hospital after volunteering to "serve" one's country is realizing that there really is not difference...except that in the second case you really thought you were doing the right thing.
End of diatribe.
You all have my permission to forget about veterans so you can get back to things that really matter: Football and NASCAR.
Oh, and the antics of Donald "I"m worth 10 billion and I had draft deferments and John McCain is a loser because he was a prisoner and I may be the next president" Trump.
And wasn't Stephen Colbert witty this week?
Since 1964 the U.S. government has thrown away the lives of many of its finest people on one senseless military intervention after another as the U.S. defined itself as a country in a permanent state of undeclared war for the benefit of no one except Wall Street and the corporations.
It has to hurt to wake up mentally one day and discover that no matter how heroic the actions you and your comrades have performed, in a war that is not heroic in any sense there are no real heroes, just collateral damage.
After all, the main difference between waking up in the hospital after a drunk driving accident and waking up in the hospital after volunteering to "serve" one's country is realizing that there really is not difference...except that in the second case you really thought you were doing the right thing.
End of diatribe.
You all have my permission to forget about veterans so you can get back to things that really matter: Football and NASCAR.
Oh, and the antics of Donald "I"m worth 10 billion and I had draft deferments and John McCain is a loser because he was a prisoner and I may be the next president" Trump.
And wasn't Stephen Colbert witty this week?
1
There are over 7,000 licensed therapists across the US participating in the non-profit organization Give An Hour. Many if not most specialize in PTSD and depression, and have experience in treating vets.
The website is easy to navigate and it is sometimes possible to get an appointment within a week or so, especially in an emergency.
Many, many people suffering from PTSD have gotten enormous relief from progressively larger doses of a natural amino acid called 5 HTP, which is a precursor of serotonin.
another safe, effective and no invasive option is neurofeedback training.
I have used these in my private practice with vets and the results have been very good.
Bless you all.
The website is easy to navigate and it is sometimes possible to get an appointment within a week or so, especially in an emergency.
Many, many people suffering from PTSD have gotten enormous relief from progressively larger doses of a natural amino acid called 5 HTP, which is a precursor of serotonin.
another safe, effective and no invasive option is neurofeedback training.
I have used these in my private practice with vets and the results have been very good.
Bless you all.
66
This is the first I have heard of this organization. Is there some way to get this website out there. I would also like to go on record saying that my husband is and was treated very well at the Veterans hospitals he goes to in Michigan. The only problem we have ever had was hearing aids and it involved the new health care that if you can't get in for 30 days you are sent to a private facility. No one seems to know how that works and he's been unable to actually get the haring aids. Has been tested and found to need them though.
1
I'm sorry but depression and PTSD so severe that they lead to suicide are probably beyond the ability of most "licensed therapists" to treat. As we would expect an oncologist and not a nurse practitioner to diagnose and treat cancer, we need psychiatrists to treat these mental disorders unless you believe these aren't "real" diseases but simply social problems.
This piece should be required reading for all those armchair generals out there who want us to get our military more heavily involved in every conflict. I am thinking specifically about that group of nitwits running for the Republican nomination, most of whom have never been in the military, who think President Obama isn't being tough enough.
I wonder how many of them would be willing to send family members into combat.
I wonder how many of them would be willing to send family members into combat.
98
Family members?! Oh goodness gracious, never!
Or how about themselves? It wasn't so long ago that leaders went into battle themselves. If W. and Dick had to see some real action, I'm guessing they may have suddenly discovered the virtues of diplomacy and the wisdom of good judgement.
Very tragic, for the person, the families and us as a society. Its the utter failure of the VA, the Govt, on both sides, who claimed to feel for our men and women in uniforms. We treat out troops like disposable tissues. We rally them into a war with political rah-rah, and sometimes its needed. And once they are back home from a unearthly hellish place, we all as a citizens, forget about them and leave them to their devices.
"Project Welcome Home Troops", is a non-profit that helps troops recover from severe PTSD & depression very effectively, without drugs. I wish more and more veterans have access to this.
Till that time, I wish and hope that we take of care them in all possible ways.
"Project Welcome Home Troops", is a non-profit that helps troops recover from severe PTSD & depression very effectively, without drugs. I wish more and more veterans have access to this.
Till that time, I wish and hope that we take of care them in all possible ways.
3
A story long overdue. Tragic is an understatement.
A primary mission of the Marines during this period was opening a supply corridor to the Kajaki Dam, in very northern Helmand. Senior U.S. government leadership had the bright idea that adding a third power generating turbine to the dam would win hearts and minds in Kandahar and Helmand. The unmounted patrols necessary to secure a route encountered many IEDs, leading to many casualties. The idea of the third turbine was eventually abandoned. Meanwhile, poppy production continues breaking records.
Perhaps if an investment banker or senator's kid was on one of those foot patrols the reasoning for sending brave young men on senseless missions would have been questioned.
A primary mission of the Marines during this period was opening a supply corridor to the Kajaki Dam, in very northern Helmand. Senior U.S. government leadership had the bright idea that adding a third power generating turbine to the dam would win hearts and minds in Kandahar and Helmand. The unmounted patrols necessary to secure a route encountered many IEDs, leading to many casualties. The idea of the third turbine was eventually abandoned. Meanwhile, poppy production continues breaking records.
Perhaps if an investment banker or senator's kid was on one of those foot patrols the reasoning for sending brave young men on senseless missions would have been questioned.
18
This is a heartbreaking and devastating story. I know that it probably won't help, but I (and many other readers, I'm sure) would want Mr. Bojorquez, Mr. Guerrero, and all the others profiled here to know that our hearts and our prayers are with them. Their courage and loyalty to one another speaks volumes about their character and fortitude. These men, and all the young men and women who serve our country, deserve our thanks and our endless admiration. They are the best of us.
15
As a combat vet myself let me tell you its not your thanks that are important. Truly they do not care.
It's your ability to help make sure we have no more vietnam or Iraqi wars that is important.
You want to help do that. If you can't do that then what good is your thanks after?
It's your ability to help make sure we have no more vietnam or Iraqi wars that is important.
You want to help do that. If you can't do that then what good is your thanks after?
2
How I hate our country's so called mental heath services. They simply don't exist. Most psychologists became psychologists because they couldn't make up their mind for a major. Plus our bogus cruel law enforcement has made it so you really can't trust a gov't paid shrink and many in the military know this and avoid them. Not by seeing them will necessarily help them, look at it this way. We keep hearing of suicides and the rate of suicide is going up not down. Therefor one could conclude that if the rates of suicide keep going up or stay the same then the treatment is not working or worse. But in our country change any change to anything is seen as some kind blasphemy.
The fact remains that our health care industry is in complete shambles with the mental health aspect being the most neglected and the most dangerous due to willful ignorance.
The fact remains that our health care industry is in complete shambles with the mental health aspect being the most neglected and the most dangerous due to willful ignorance.
4
A person would have to be heartless not to feel fury and anguish while pondering the wreckage of war. So much blood has been shed, and continues to slowly seep from the wounds that remain, both obvious and hidden alike. It has always been thus; we just happen to live now in a culture that is more open about the ravages of war than it once was. Yet even with our "share everything" style of living, we often don't want to see the people within the uniform once they return. It's far easier to enthusiastically "Support Our Troops" and laud their bravery than it is to effectively and compassionately help them pick up the pieces when they return to a now-alien "typical" American life.
I would encourage any who believe we ought to use our military might to cow Iran, Russia, et al to read this article and countless others like it. Consider the nature of warfare today, in which clear victories are elusive and the front lines ever-changing. Consider the very real collateral damage, and the haunting effects on those who make it home alive but never wholly untouched by the violence, trauma, and tragedy of 21st c. war. War is not tribute ribbons and flag pins and platitudes and pledges of support. It is messy, painful, violent, and often has ambiguous goals.
It is something that must be avoided whenever possible. We can still have a mighty military force without needing to test the limits of our service members so often, and for so little gain.
I would encourage any who believe we ought to use our military might to cow Iran, Russia, et al to read this article and countless others like it. Consider the nature of warfare today, in which clear victories are elusive and the front lines ever-changing. Consider the very real collateral damage, and the haunting effects on those who make it home alive but never wholly untouched by the violence, trauma, and tragedy of 21st c. war. War is not tribute ribbons and flag pins and platitudes and pledges of support. It is messy, painful, violent, and often has ambiguous goals.
It is something that must be avoided whenever possible. We can still have a mighty military force without needing to test the limits of our service members so often, and for so little gain.
11
This story makes me so angry my hands go numb. We send these young men to serve multiple tours in trillion dollar wars waged by men who, when the bullets were flying in Vietnam all ran and hid like scared little children. And we can treat them no better than this?
38
Donald "I had three draft deferment" Trump says his business career (mostly buying and selling casinos) was the equivalent of serving in the U.S. military. And Donald Trump may be our next president.
1
It is our nation's shame that the VA is so understaffed and unable to give our veterans what they deserve and need. There is now a push on the part of insurance companies like Value Options Behavioral Health to provide training and services by Social Workers like myself to provide therapy. I understand, however, that Tricare, a policy designated for coverage for veterans, is bureaucratic in its implementation, a burden for the practitioner and client. Why is it, that in the face of such overwhelming tragedy for our veterans, that we cannot do better?
3
it is a very good idea to start a conversation about alcohol use and suicidal thoughts. Alcohol depletes tryptophan from the liver and the blood stream. Tryptophan is the only substance that makes the neurotransmitter serotonin, which is responsible for keeping us calm and happy. Post mortem examinations of suicide victims show low tryptophan levels. Getting clean of substances such as alcohol and drugs is the first step in suicide prevention for these very worthy men who have given so much for our country.
7
Heartbreaking. Once again we have another generation of young men (and women) scarred from war.
Personally I believe in just and necessary wars, and that the war in Afghanistan to root out bin Kaden and Al Qaeda was justified (the war in Iraq not so much). But the physical and emotional toll on our servicemen and women (and their families) of sending ground troops to fight wars should always be factored into the decision. And just as these brave men and women pledge to serve as the front line of protection for us, so should we pledge to care for them and provide whatever assistance they may require when they return hone.
Personally I believe in just and necessary wars, and that the war in Afghanistan to root out bin Kaden and Al Qaeda was justified (the war in Iraq not so much). But the physical and emotional toll on our servicemen and women (and their families) of sending ground troops to fight wars should always be factored into the decision. And just as these brave men and women pledge to serve as the front line of protection for us, so should we pledge to care for them and provide whatever assistance they may require when they return hone.
1
My heart breaks for these men. I'm reminded that the word "infantry" refers to the military practice of putting the youngest ("infant") soldiers first into harm's way. Where is the guidance of the commanding officers who sent these men on their assignments? Does the responsibility of commanders end when soldiers try to go home again? These men do the nation's bidding against all their basic instincts of self-preservation; no wonder they have trouble regaining those instincts once they come home.
The VA cannot bear the burden of helping these men heal without understanding their profound disconnection with civilian therapy culture. The chain of command needs to continue the communal nature of the combat experience by organizing homecoming soldiers into units tasked with solving important civilian problems with military precision. These soldiers would look out for each other & respond to command leadership as they had in theater, and a non-optional part of the unit discipline would be joint exercises in learning to stand down both physically & emotionally.
Only in a nationally recognized & understood context of indelible experience do I see our veterans feeling at home again in the homeland. As a civilian therapist I understand the severe limitations of a 50-minute weekly talk session for anyone, let alone veterans with experiences they must process 24 hours a day. Let's open our world to theirs instead of expecting them to slide uncomplainingly into ours.
The VA cannot bear the burden of helping these men heal without understanding their profound disconnection with civilian therapy culture. The chain of command needs to continue the communal nature of the combat experience by organizing homecoming soldiers into units tasked with solving important civilian problems with military precision. These soldiers would look out for each other & respond to command leadership as they had in theater, and a non-optional part of the unit discipline would be joint exercises in learning to stand down both physically & emotionally.
Only in a nationally recognized & understood context of indelible experience do I see our veterans feeling at home again in the homeland. As a civilian therapist I understand the severe limitations of a 50-minute weekly talk session for anyone, let alone veterans with experiences they must process 24 hours a day. Let's open our world to theirs instead of expecting them to slide uncomplainingly into ours.
74
Harleymom, what a great idea. I Know as a combat vet what I would have thought of your suggestion.
Mandatory relocation work camps for recently discharged vets.
Nothing would have made me happier after my war tour and after my discharge than to be told I was not going home but to a semi military camp where I would work with military persision while solving important civilian problems. Along side other happy and productive vets.
The vets will be overjoyed. Let's hope they are not armed.
I have no idea why the US govt does not already have these?
Mandatory relocation work camps for recently discharged vets.
Nothing would have made me happier after my war tour and after my discharge than to be told I was not going home but to a semi military camp where I would work with military persision while solving important civilian problems. Along side other happy and productive vets.
The vets will be overjoyed. Let's hope they are not armed.
I have no idea why the US govt does not already have these?
Wish I could give more than 1 recommend. Thank you Harleymom for your wise words.
How many sons/daughters of US politicians or corporate leaders or the hedge fund billionaires serve in the military? Precious few. Until they do, everyday people who sign up & are wounded physically/psychologically will be treated with little more than contempt.
23
It is heartbreaking to see how these young men and so many more have been used and discarded by the country they wanted to serve.
These suicides must be on the conscience of George Bush and Dick Cheney along with the deaths in combat on both sides and those of all the innocent civilians these men and their comrades killed in the criminal wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Of course the lives of many Vietnam veterans have been destroyed as well as long as those of hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese.
What does all the flag waving and glorification of "our heroes" come down to? Were they really "fighting for freedom" and "keeping our country safe?" Or were they mainly enriching the coffers of the military industrial complex and giving politicians like the ones just seen in the Republican debate something to grandstand about instead of doing the hard work necessary to solve the real problems that face our country?
These suicides must be on the conscience of George Bush and Dick Cheney along with the deaths in combat on both sides and those of all the innocent civilians these men and their comrades killed in the criminal wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Of course the lives of many Vietnam veterans have been destroyed as well as long as those of hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese.
What does all the flag waving and glorification of "our heroes" come down to? Were they really "fighting for freedom" and "keeping our country safe?" Or were they mainly enriching the coffers of the military industrial complex and giving politicians like the ones just seen in the Republican debate something to grandstand about instead of doing the hard work necessary to solve the real problems that face our country?
23
George w. Bush and Dick Cheney's consciences? You are assuming they have one. I see no evidence of that.
3
It is not fair to blame the US Military on these suicides. Many young soldiers are still in the process to figuring out who they are, what to do in life, and indeed are at a loss and indeed may commit suicide - many kids not in the military also kill themselves (or others).
Ah, the U.S. military speaks:
1) If something goes wrong in the presence of a president and a general, the general is to blame.
2) If something goes wrong in the presence of a general and captain, the captain is to blame.
3) If something goes wrong in the presence of an officer and an NCO, the NCO is to blame.
4) If something goes wrong in the presence of an NCO and a private, the private is to blame.
5) If something goes wrong in the presence of a U.S. soldier and a U.S. civilian, the civilian is to blame.
6) If something goes wrong in the presence of any American and any foreigner, the foreigner is to blame.
These rules are called "chain of command."
1) If something goes wrong in the presence of a president and a general, the general is to blame.
2) If something goes wrong in the presence of a general and captain, the captain is to blame.
3) If something goes wrong in the presence of an officer and an NCO, the NCO is to blame.
4) If something goes wrong in the presence of an NCO and a private, the private is to blame.
5) If something goes wrong in the presence of a U.S. soldier and a U.S. civilian, the civilian is to blame.
6) If something goes wrong in the presence of any American and any foreigner, the foreigner is to blame.
These rules are called "chain of command."
4
You might want to go back and re-read the first part of the article. Statistics can sometimes be elusive little things.
Why aren't we taking care of our hero's? My taxes should be going towards their care of by professionals. So fire the inept and hire capable, caring doctors and therapists. And a lot of them. This is the very least we can do. Why are the Republicans on Capitol Hill so focused on eliminating Planned Parenthood, and not taking care of the lives here that have defended and saved ours.
61
I need to sign off now.
My favorite football team in on TV.
Then I need to watch NASCAR.
After that I think I'll watch professional wrestling.
Got to support the heroes.
My favorite football team in on TV.
Then I need to watch NASCAR.
After that I think I'll watch professional wrestling.
Got to support the heroes.
1
loisa,to answer your question-the politicians would have to fund the VAMC at a much higher level than they do. The VA wages for nurses,MD's,pharmacists,and a host of other medical professionals run 20-25% below the private sector. As for the "great government benefits"...most of them have been gutted in the past 20 years.
It is easier for politicians to bemoan VA services,but none of them have the stomach to fund the VA appropriately. It's a lot easier to talk incompetence, and waste-rather than putting the money where their mouth is...
It is easier for politicians to bemoan VA services,but none of them have the stomach to fund the VA appropriately. It's a lot easier to talk incompetence, and waste-rather than putting the money where their mouth is...
You try to hire psychiatrists with the low pay the VA offers. Psychiatrists are in very short supply in this country because it is such a low paying specialty and the VA seems to think that it's so wonderful to work for it that it doesn't need to offer better salaries.
This is a very sad saga of the long wars in Afghanistan and Iraq in which American soldiers left their homes of the brave to express their bravery in far off hostile lands only to return to less than optimal environment and in some cases uncaring people to an extent that they ended their lives. It is heart warming to know that veterans are trying save one another. It seems that only the veterans who fought shoulder to shoulder are the only ones who understand the true pain. Every veteran life is precious and should be preserved at all cost and the nations should not overlook them in their hours of need. God bless all those veterans who are no more and those who are fighting to just barely survive. Every citizen and the nations should do a lot more than has been done for them.
14
An old old problem that has been with us since forever. This has happened after every war. Suicide, drinking yourself to death, shoot outs with police or rivals, drug ODs, and a fair number of fatal single car accidents.
I lost good friends all of those ways and more after my war. My dad lost friends this way after WW2
This is the price we pay for our war deployments. This is the price we have paid in the past and will pay in the future.
This is why so many opt not to serve in combat in an infantry unit or in uniform at all.
There are lots of terrible reasons why this is so. The trauma of combat is real. But the trauma of no combat is real as well.
I can point to any number of things in life where I have been successful. I can't point to any other period in my life that was so immediately important, so terrifying, so adrenaline filled, so filled with excitement, and so missed decades later.
I may be truly anti war today. But that thrill of a hot LZ or being shot at without effect is some thing I can still long for nearly 50'years later.
For a combat vet there are three periods in their life now. The life before combat. The life after. And those months or years when you were rucking up and going outside the wire, hunting and being hunted.
Id give anything to do that one more time.
Don't underestimate how hard it is to give that up no matter how much you hated it and despised the war itself.
I lost good friends all of those ways and more after my war. My dad lost friends this way after WW2
This is the price we pay for our war deployments. This is the price we have paid in the past and will pay in the future.
This is why so many opt not to serve in combat in an infantry unit or in uniform at all.
There are lots of terrible reasons why this is so. The trauma of combat is real. But the trauma of no combat is real as well.
I can point to any number of things in life where I have been successful. I can't point to any other period in my life that was so immediately important, so terrifying, so adrenaline filled, so filled with excitement, and so missed decades later.
I may be truly anti war today. But that thrill of a hot LZ or being shot at without effect is some thing I can still long for nearly 50'years later.
For a combat vet there are three periods in their life now. The life before combat. The life after. And those months or years when you were rucking up and going outside the wire, hunting and being hunted.
Id give anything to do that one more time.
Don't underestimate how hard it is to give that up no matter how much you hated it and despised the war itself.
43
This comment took my breath away. Who, but those who have actually 'been there and done that' could possibly relate?!
No number of well-intentioned therapists can help these people unless they come from the combat ranks themselves. Of that I am certain. And even then...
No number of well-intentioned therapists can help these people unless they come from the combat ranks themselves. Of that I am certain. And even then...
That is really scary to read! A few years ago I overheard two young men on a commercial flight talking about their combat experience in Afghanistan. Both were no longer on active duty, but one had become a mercenary and would soon be going back to occupied territory. The second young man expressed his jealousy, saying how much he missed the excitement of killing! And he wanted information about how he could become one of these employees of the private contract military. In our effort to try and take over the Middle East for the oil, we have created both those with a love of killing and those with an incredible sense of shame for what they did in the name of "Protecting the US." They realize they were lied to and that the deaths they witnessed and sometimes caused were not really for some noble purpose. At least, during the Second World War, we really were defending ourselves.
Wow! That's the scariest impact of all for me. That the killing and savagery of war could actually be addictive! That anyone could yearn to go back for more! That the connection soldiers experience under the constant threat of death or dismemberment leaves no room for any other kind of deep connection that is not addictive or destructive. That these men can no longer find meaning other than living on the edge in a rush of adrenaline. If this is the suffering they experience - if life is meaningless without the constant threat of death - then the pull towards suicide becomes a replacement for the constant threat of death. The war continues and the battlefield becomes ones self.
1
This story is heartbreaking . As a civilian I cannot possibly hope to understand these individuals trauma in full. But the vision of these veterans helping each other cope is a salient one. None of these men, and women, should have to come home to menial jobs and desolation. They should be organized and paid, by the same government that trained them to deploy, to now continue to use their skills and comradeship to do good. In this way they could comfort themselves by being amongst the only other folks who can understand them and start to undo and balance the memories of horror with new visions of the good they can do for society. In the vacuum of government support these men face, I applaud them so much for seeking to help each other and looking for meaningful ways to apply themselves. I can only hope the government begins to learn from their example.
83
Yes, returning veterans should receive more support with regard to jobs and housing. However, there have been and are many people with no financial problems who have suffered major mental disorders and have attempted suicide. These are diseases, not simply social problems.
The problem comes from political leaders who never find themselves on battle grounds and succeed in believing that the metamorphosis of a human being in a paid killer has no significant consequences. These leaders are real cold-blood killers.
102
Wow, what a powerful story. We need to do a lot more to help these guys. I'm so tired of reading about problems at the VA. Congress, are you listening? But I also have to say that a theme running through the article is that these men look back and seem to expect themselves to have been Superman. Never make a mistake, never have a lapse of attention, never feel stunned by an explosion. Never shoot the wrong person, or an old woman carrying an RPG (!), in a split second decision. I've studied human factors my whole career, and I can tell you that people make errors. That's how people are made. They have lapses of attention, they jump to conclusions, they miss the "obvious" choice. But we don't blame the person, we focus on the system, how can we make the system better. I'm not sure how possible that is in war, but the point is to realize we're not Superman, we're not designed to be perfect every second of our lives and under all extremis, and then forgive ourselves.
15
I'm sure these men are all are perfectly well aware they're not Superman. All of us know that - rationally. But the raw emotional trauma of friends' violent deaths can't be simply erased by rational knowledge.
Maybe treatment should include financing frequent get-togethers for members of the battallion who served together. This would involve also paying for transportation and stays where the get-togethers were held.Perhaps some kind of facilitators could be provided, not necessarily from the VA. Maybe some of the members of the battalion could receive som basic training in group work. There should be opportunities to hang out, to socialize, as well as to attend group sessions. Maybe even something like cooking lessons or gardening could be offered at the same time.
164
Yes, maybe a hotel or resort chain could make get-togethers possible. Radical changes of scenery often facilitate improved perspectives.
I like this suggestion because the traditional medical model obviously has limited appeal and effectiveness. This article drives home many realities: the limits of the formal helping system; the endless pain of combat; the disconnect between slogans like "we support our troops" and the realities faced by our returning veterans. It's time to find creative responses like your idea of serious government sponsorship of "informal" opportunities to connect for our vets. One size does not fit all. A medical model helps some and fails many others.
I'm not a veteran, but your idea of treatment including occasional get-togethers seems excellent to me. Promote it. And good luck to you.
One thing different about 21st century modern warfare is the exposure to multiple, strong blasts from near misses with IEDs.
Shock waves can cause concussions and can cause micro-tears in the brains of those who aren't burned or hit by shrapnel, but are thrown around in a vehicle or slammed to the ground.
I wonder if that kind of hidden brain trauma (similar to what is experienced by football players after they get knocked to the ground) is also a factor in the kind of disorientation and depression felt by the soldiers?
Shock waves can cause concussions and can cause micro-tears in the brains of those who aren't burned or hit by shrapnel, but are thrown around in a vehicle or slammed to the ground.
I wonder if that kind of hidden brain trauma (similar to what is experienced by football players after they get knocked to the ground) is also a factor in the kind of disorientation and depression felt by the soldiers?
18
MTBI (mild traumatic brain injury) is for basic concussions. Now, Soldiers and Marines have to be taken out of the field and assessed for 24 hours following being in a blast radius +/- 50'. TBI (Traumatic Brain Injury) is guys who really had their heads shaken (boxers, football, etc after being knocked out), this is life long.
What these guys are most likely dealing with is: the effects of prolonged combat, failed military and political leadership and being misdiagnosed by the "fantastic" military psych staff (they work for the generals so they are tainted) who put them on drugs that say "call your local VA if you have thought of killing yourself".
Even when we are out, we are being used......
What these guys are most likely dealing with is: the effects of prolonged combat, failed military and political leadership and being misdiagnosed by the "fantastic" military psych staff (they work for the generals so they are tainted) who put them on drugs that say "call your local VA if you have thought of killing yourself".
Even when we are out, we are being used......
I would encourage anyone who has not experienced it to visit your local VA hospital. The network is not exactly expansive so it may take you a couple hours to get there.
Walk around. Let the smell of the place permeate your clothing. Make sure you take long looks at the faces of patients who are struggling beyond all comprehension to survive in the face of crippling substance abuse and depression.
Spare a thought, of course, for the people working there. Many of them are volunteers and veterans themselves. They are all working hard in the face of a demon that can only grow as time moves forward.
When you leave, ask yourself: is this a place where someone can get healthy? Is this a place I would rush to if I needed help?
If you went abroad and saw these things, you'd be disgusted. "How can a country leave the people who sacrificed the most to this?"
It is an absolute tragedy that we have arrived at this point. An embarrassing healthcare apparatus for veterans. A generation of young men and women lost, most forever.
Walk around. Let the smell of the place permeate your clothing. Make sure you take long looks at the faces of patients who are struggling beyond all comprehension to survive in the face of crippling substance abuse and depression.
Spare a thought, of course, for the people working there. Many of them are volunteers and veterans themselves. They are all working hard in the face of a demon that can only grow as time moves forward.
When you leave, ask yourself: is this a place where someone can get healthy? Is this a place I would rush to if I needed help?
If you went abroad and saw these things, you'd be disgusted. "How can a country leave the people who sacrificed the most to this?"
It is an absolute tragedy that we have arrived at this point. An embarrassing healthcare apparatus for veterans. A generation of young men and women lost, most forever.
359
Arjan - my father spent much of his later years in VA hospitals and I visited often. I found no sign of what you're talking about. He received fine care.
11
Arjan, you may have one solution to the challenge of caring for veterans who have not recovered from their experiences in the war. Perhaps they need to be in smaller facilities, with caregivers who have very specific training about their emotional problems. Such places might be more beneficial if they were closer to their families and friends.
They are NOT working hard. That is the typical VA propaganda. Most VA hospitals are Hollywood sets of what a hospital looks like. VA Theater. Then they proceed to deliver less than half the care of your basic local county hospital. Two OR cases per day per room, when civilian hospitals are doing 5.
1
Another quiet tragedy in the USA, a place that exploits and neglects its people, instead of nurturing them. In pursuit of the almighty dollar, ours is a once-strong society which has developed a soft, rotten core which itself needs broad rehabilitation. Listen to the pope.
31
Quiet to you...because unlike me, you don't work with people with PTSD and other traumatic injuries.
Of course, your state is busy racially profiling everyone on the road and criticizing newscasters for using correct Spanish pronunciations during news casts.
Of course, your state is busy racially profiling everyone on the road and criticizing newscasters for using correct Spanish pronunciations during news casts.
1
I can't say that I've read this entire article. I can't do it in one try because it is so powerful, I need some time to recover. This is heartbreaking and infuriating that we haven't done more to try to help these soldiers. At the same time, judging from the recent debate, the republican party plans on creating a whole new larger batch of veterans after they invade Iran and Syria and God knows where else.
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I suppose it would be wonderful if we could blame the problems of war on one party and absolve the other. The realities are much more complicated than that. The tragedy of the war is that either party has the right to send soldiers to fight in an area without a definite plan and strategies to win and then leave. The And that those people who bring that fact to the attention of Congress are sometimes called unpatriotic. If we want to talk Republicans vs Democrats, I didn't see the Republicans proposing to give Iran a nuclear weapon. Talk about creating a whole new class of veterans. And And I didn't see the Democrats, including Obama, fighting for more money for the VA.
2
Why blame the war in Afghanistan on Republicans or Democrats? Why not blame it on Al-Qaeda or the Taliban, or both? We didn't blame World War II on the Democrats or Republicans. We blamed it on Germany and Japan.
The VA's awash with cash. What we need is less gung-ho war mongering.
1
I wish all the chicken-hawk GOP candidates would read this article and ask themselves this question, "What are you going to do to stop this madness?"
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I hope that George W. Bush also reads this article.
26
Let's ask Obama the same thing: When are you going to stop this madness of giving Iran the ability to have a nuclear weapon? Particularly when they keep yelling "Death to the US."
1
This article should be required reading for all the chicken hawk war mongers now itching to go to war with Iran. Not that they would care - so long as it's poor kids from the other side of the tracks who the fight these wars, they seem to be able to justify it.
1
It is very difficult to write a comment about this article; however, I hope that those who are suffering get help from someone. Your life has value as you have served your country in the job you were given with brave actions and honour. I hope that the support that you can give one another will help you cope with your sorrow and pain.
22
We owe these veterans a debt we can probably never repay. But we should start to try. It is truly unconscionable to send soldiers into war that has little chance to be won, either through lack of political vision, courage, or will.
1
Going into Afghanistan initially was the right thing to do. Then the mission crept into "nation building." A disaster ensued. Then Iraq as well, truly a bad idea from the beginning. Yeah Jeb! your bro kept us safe...NOT TO MENTION THE HIDEOUS aftermath to all of this especially to our own troops and now vets.
And I have not forgotten Pres. Obama's foolish surge into Afghanistan. All too sad for words really.
And I have not forgotten Pres. Obama's foolish surge into Afghanistan. All too sad for words really.