This is yet another step by the industrial food companies to create processed food. If you really want to avoid meat for any reason, eat real food, like vegetables, beans, whole grain rice, etc that is more sustainable and better for you.
39
If you want to ban water-consuming foods, consider lettuce and almonds. Lettuce has no nutrition, consumes huge amounts of water to grow, has to be shipped in refrigerated train cars often thousands of miles. People need protein but nobody needs lettuce. Almond trees also consume huge amounts of water and for what -- a snack. Banning lettuce and almonds makes sense. If people want to eat meat, which is often locally produced, that's their call.
4
Population controls is what is needed.
12
I hope they know I'll never acknowledge all this fake stuff as real until they title it accurately. There is no such thing as vegan ice cream. It's usually sweetened, texturized, nut milk of some kind. Just as there is no such thing as faux chicken. If it ends up being pea powder, soy sauce, etc then I shall refer to it as texturized pea powder, not faux chicken.
4
I would much rather have a hamburger than two weeks of showers so I will make the sacrifice.
17
Kristof, man, just do it. You have been circling around the issue of animal torture and environmental problems because of meat eaters now for years -- always ending up saying: Yes ... but I am not yet there. You still want your hamburger "now and then" -- that means you are NOT "avoiding the brutalizing of "farm" animals (most of whom, by the way, have never seen a farm), but are still participating in the animal torture you acknowledge is involved, even if only "now and then." The particular animal tortured and killed for your hamburger will not appreciate your "now and then" position. Just stop the torture altogether. I stopped the whole mess involved in eating animals 45 years ago --- the best decision I made in my life -- in all ways, ethically, environmentally, and for my own health. Kristof, you know you have to do it! Get with it...
59
Applause ans Salute to Mr. Kristoff for daring to write about eating of meat by the kreasphagous (= carnivorous) people. In this age of loud-mouthed and vehement politicization by the all-knowing promoters of the politically correct, it is often forgotten that the species Homo sapiens (Linnaeus 1758) is panphagous (= omnivorous).
However, biological or genetic engineering of make-believe food raises a grave danger of "Brave New World", with the resulting cloning of humans and revival of eugenics.
The old saying, "people who eat sausage should not look at how it is made", applies to those who eat meat. I fear the day when food markets will be flooded by the artificial meat, vegetables and mushrooms -- representatives of the three living kingdoms.
However, biological or genetic engineering of make-believe food raises a grave danger of "Brave New World", with the resulting cloning of humans and revival of eugenics.
The old saying, "people who eat sausage should not look at how it is made", applies to those who eat meat. I fear the day when food markets will be flooded by the artificial meat, vegetables and mushrooms -- representatives of the three living kingdoms.
3
Nicholas, in some year (2525?) isn't it all suppose to come in pill form? The pill will make you think you just had the burger on a grilled bun dripping with mayo, tomatoes and pickles!
1
There is no shortcut to an ethical life, but many shortcuts to fake one. Please feel free to eat real food, and give a thought (not too infrequently) to children and adults who are starving not by their choice.
6
No more cows?
Would vegans dream of electric steers?
Would vegans dream of electric steers?
3
To consume milk products, humans cause cows to give birth every year, and half of the calves are male, which are consumed. The dairy cow also has a finite productive life-- 7-10 years with good treatment, at the end of which her body is consumed as well. So to get rid of beef, one has to get rid of milk, cheese, butter, and yogurt, too.
14
I have been a Vegan since 1995.That year, I discovered Horses were being slaughtered for Dinner in Europe and Japan. If I would never eat a Horse or any of its Cousins then why should I eat any other Animal. The suffering is different for each Species. Birds have zero protection as they are not included in the Humane Slaughter Act of 1958 which was signed into Law by President Eisenhower. A worker can throw a Chicken like a Football and no consequences will follow.
The Factory Farms have absolutely killed off the Family Farmer. If one wants to be a Carnivore then please support your LOCAL Farmer to buy your Food. The Animals in Factory Farms all get Antibiotics (close quarters lead to illness) and Steroids to have a larger Animal or Bird. The FDA came out with a Rule regarding Antibiotic and Steroid use but they made it VOLUNTARY!
My hope is that the new Head of the FDA enforces these Rules pronto. It is always Big Beef that kills our Wildlife because the so called Welfare Ranchers want to graze their Cattle on Public Lands and the USDA and the entire Department of the Interior have made it abundantly clear they do not care one bit about the Species we are losing.
The Factory Farms have absolutely killed off the Family Farmer. If one wants to be a Carnivore then please support your LOCAL Farmer to buy your Food. The Animals in Factory Farms all get Antibiotics (close quarters lead to illness) and Steroids to have a larger Animal or Bird. The FDA came out with a Rule regarding Antibiotic and Steroid use but they made it VOLUNTARY!
My hope is that the new Head of the FDA enforces these Rules pronto. It is always Big Beef that kills our Wildlife because the so called Welfare Ranchers want to graze their Cattle on Public Lands and the USDA and the entire Department of the Interior have made it abundantly clear they do not care one bit about the Species we are losing.
7
As one who avoids meat for ethical reasons, I say, "Bring it on!."
5
Delicious vegetarian food have already been invented hundreds if not thousands of years ago. Nick, surely you have tried the delicious Chinese vegetarian chicken, duck, oysters, roast pork, shark fin, and other vegetarian delicacies while you and Sheryl were living in China. They are also served on a regular basis in Chinese vegetarian restaurants found in many larger Cities in the US and abroad.
Many Chinese who are "practicing " buddhist will skip meat in their meals for 4 days each month, a regime that is much easy for those of us not ready give up certain earthly pleasures but would like to be forgiven for killing other animals.
Many Chinese who are "practicing " buddhist will skip meat in their meals for 4 days each month, a regime that is much easy for those of us not ready give up certain earthly pleasures but would like to be forgiven for killing other animals.
1
Yum. Soylent Green.
7
I wonder what chemical time bombs are included in all the new bogus meats in order to make them remotely palatable?
6
"And if I can still enjoy a juicy burger now and then, while boosting my health, helping the environment and avoiding the brutalizing of farm animals, hey, I’m in!"
Says it all.
Says it all.
1
Most all the NYT picks are about whether or not "fake" meat works for meat eaters. Hardly anyone's primary comments are about CO2. Heads in the sand? It was news to me that the livestock industry creates more CO2 than the Transportation industry. The bottom line is climate change due to carbon emissions, not taste, not even huge lost of jobs if meat and dairy production are curtailed. Don't we HAVE to move towards way less carbon emissions by eating less eggs, dairy and meat? I don't like it, especially eating less dairy, and eggs, but it makes sense, and is urgent, for the sake of the planet. Hopefully, seafood is still okay to eat.
16
If plant-based "meat" ("pleat"?) can replace just the ground versions of beef, pork and lamb, that will be a substantial win. Whether you believe these meats are as bad for our health as convention has it, most meat-originated contamination arises when big producers don't exercise enough care and control in the grinding process. If switching over also reduces the amount of fuel and water needed to produce it, so much the better.
4
Read Michael Pollan's The Omnivore's Dilemma, and Nicolette Hahn Niman's Defending Beef. A chemical stew as a substitute for meat? Anyone interested in this topic should read these books. The assertion that cattle use too much water is true -- for those raised in feedlots, but raised on grass, cattle consume consume little water. Grass is renewable with the winter rains. Chemicals interact in our bodies in ways don't fully understand; scientists continue to discover their ill effects. The obesity epidemic is all around us. Cooking is a creative outlet with the family, and in demonstrating a love of good food and real cooking, my grandchildren clamor -- yes beg --- to do the same. Portion control is critical -- small amounts of high quality meat (2-3 ounces) and the remainder of food on the plate vegetables. And through a rich variety of color on the plate, the meal becomes immensely satisfying to the eye, the palate, and the body. Become a conscious eater and you will be rewarded. I dearly wish this article had focused on the processed food industry (yes, feedlot cattle is a part of that) and the big money from big ag that goes to politicians begging for their support.
6
We have, nationally, a fake energy policy, a fake military policy, a fake criminal policy, a fake judicial policy, a fake agricultural policy. A fraud in most every office at the highest levels of government. Why not.
Soylant is just another step.
Soylant is just another step.
4
Moving to none meat protein consumption will also enable our global 1%s to manipulate human demography, go slow on birth control and encourage mass migration because it will be possible to feed the added legions ... so as to cram ... what 15 or 30 billion resource consuming and polluting humans onto the earth? Yes it is obvious to this environmentalist why our masters of the universe want to do this smiley faced green wash deception - in order to manufacture many billions more slave-wage workers and customers for their designed to fail faddish high profit margin junk.
4
I had a chance to meet Ethan Brown, the founder of Beyond Meat, at a conference a few years ago. I asked him if he was concerned about having to use too many chemicals or ingredients in his products in order to replicate the texture and taste of meat, and whether he thought this could result in a negative health effect on what he is trying to do. Without skipping a beat he said that he and his family eat his products regularly and that he is focused on not letting the means corrupt the ends of what he is trying to do. He is a very sincere guy that is totally focused and down to earth and I was really impressed with his quiet enthusiasm and plain spoken-ness about his product.
7
Eating meat is not by default paving any path to any health certainties like a heart attack. That old meme is played out as its patently based on the woefully unscientific pop-culture health and fitness craze and crazies of the last several decades.
We know what leads to heart attacks, and other major health concerns in the USA, and its not the simple ingestion of meats. Its a mixed bag of causes, most having to do with genetics, excessive bad food choices, and equitable access to good food, and the biggest of the causes - sedentary lifestyles.
Also causing our health crisis the woeful lack of fact based education in our school systems regarding diet/nutrition, general fitness and exercise. So we have a huge adult population now with little to no actual fact based knowledge about nutrition, proper exercise - who rely on alarmist news stories about the dangers of meat, eggs, and anything protein based, compounded by one pop-culture diet fad after another being touted as the Miracle Program, compounded further by TV personalities like Dr. Oz who present products and ideas fresh from the hyped up, Questionably scientific one-study world of Supplements. "Oh its been found that Gongkoglobula (made-up term) helps reduce free-radicals, and grows hair in lab rats! Here, take this 70x's a day with organic macadamia nut milk, while standing in the sun facing west." And - "You can still eat all the cr/ppy food you do now!"
Eating animals for their protein is not inherently bad.
We know what leads to heart attacks, and other major health concerns in the USA, and its not the simple ingestion of meats. Its a mixed bag of causes, most having to do with genetics, excessive bad food choices, and equitable access to good food, and the biggest of the causes - sedentary lifestyles.
Also causing our health crisis the woeful lack of fact based education in our school systems regarding diet/nutrition, general fitness and exercise. So we have a huge adult population now with little to no actual fact based knowledge about nutrition, proper exercise - who rely on alarmist news stories about the dangers of meat, eggs, and anything protein based, compounded by one pop-culture diet fad after another being touted as the Miracle Program, compounded further by TV personalities like Dr. Oz who present products and ideas fresh from the hyped up, Questionably scientific one-study world of Supplements. "Oh its been found that Gongkoglobula (made-up term) helps reduce free-radicals, and grows hair in lab rats! Here, take this 70x's a day with organic macadamia nut milk, while standing in the sun facing west." And - "You can still eat all the cr/ppy food you do now!"
Eating animals for their protein is not inherently bad.
6
As concerns your last statement, the animals might disagree . . .
6
Ingredients including flavorings can be a significant problem. Will there be nitrates or substances which our bodies turn into nitrates, which are dangerous? Will absolutely every ingredient be adequately identified to avoid allergic reactions?
Personally, I would like to see more soy- and peanut-free products. Whey / seitan is great!
Personally, I would like to see more soy- and peanut-free products. Whey / seitan is great!
Unless everyone who eats meat and dairy products is ready to become a vegan, and believes that eating the products of corporate laboratories and factories will have no unexpected health consequences, there are some unexplored issues in this essay. One is mentioned below: small-scale, ethical farms which raise their animals humanely and sustainably will be the first to go out of business as the market shifts. Second: dairy products, including cow milk cheese and our beloved yogurt will become unsustainable. In order to produce milk, dairy animals must give birth. Approximately one-half of all of the young are males, which have no future in milk production. They are raised and slaughtered for meat. What do dairy farmers do with all of their male calves if no one will eat them? Dog food? How much sense does that make? Third: Grazing animals turn grass into protein. They also provide natural fertilizer for vegetable crops via the end-product of their digestive process. Animal manure is vital for organic farming. A better answer is more chemical fertilizers? I don't think so. Don't eat factory-raised meat. Pay more to support small ethical farmers, and eat less. It's a better option for everyone's health--farmers and consumers alike.
9
You're in, Nicholas. But I am surely out!
I wouldn't trust the manufacturers of the fake food one iota more than I trust them for real food.
It will just be an alternate poison they are feeding us that will rise in price as the demand from the naive people rises.
I wouldn't trust the manufacturers of the fake food one iota more than I trust them for real food.
It will just be an alternate poison they are feeding us that will rise in price as the demand from the naive people rises.
10
I've been happily walking the vegetarian path for 20 plus years. My experience has shown me that talking like this won't win any converts to vegetarianism, but I'll say it anyway:
My favorite "fake meats" don't taste like meat. They taste delicious. Fake meats are usually not as good as fresh vegetables and fruits, but still quite tasty and they are a great way to add variety to an already thoroughly delectable diet.
Go to a grocery store, go to the fish section, close your eyes, and inhale deeply through your nose. Do you really like the smell of dead fish? Try the same experiment in the meat section.
Being a vegetarian isn't a hardship. It's a pleasure.
My favorite "fake meats" don't taste like meat. They taste delicious. Fake meats are usually not as good as fresh vegetables and fruits, but still quite tasty and they are a great way to add variety to an already thoroughly delectable diet.
Go to a grocery store, go to the fish section, close your eyes, and inhale deeply through your nose. Do you really like the smell of dead fish? Try the same experiment in the meat section.
Being a vegetarian isn't a hardship. It's a pleasure.
22
Rather than making fake food which smacks of politics more than it does of taste, maybe we should figure out a way to create copycat animals without brains or nervous systems that would be ethical to eat.
2
Small hobby farms supply a much larger portion of the beef than suspected. Most of those farms use natural springs, streams or run off ponds to water the animal. Thus, while it may take twenty gallonsof water to produce a hamburger, much of that water would naturally flow back into an ocean or used to keep somebody's lawn green. and if cruelty to animals is really the issue then we need to stop killing rats and mice since they too are animals. And all that fishing yep, it is not meat but those fish are animals. And all those squirrels, deer, rabbits and armadillos run over by cars, well that has to stop as well. Airplanes and windmills kill a lot of birds. Medical research use mice and other animals. Dog food, yep gotta go. Leather shoes, baseball gloves and even the beloved pigskin, gotta go. Ships with propellers, yep , them as well. Aquariums and zoos, them too. Wait, farms destroy habitat and kill animals, nix them as well. Need some wood? A bird might have a nest with baby birds there or need a seed so let us stop that. Those great parks and hiking trails displace and cause the death of animals as well. Those are just for starters. Let us see how principled you folks really are. I suspect that the slightest inconvenience will make liars of you all.
10
I was a vegetarian at time when I don't think I ever heard the word vegan. I practiced yoga when no one would associate it with the word power. I grew up in NYC when you went to a local butcher, green grocer, fishmonger, and baker which were all located in a walking distance of maximum four blocks. I never went to a farm as a child but I learned at a young age how to pick fruit and vegetables, what quality meat and seafood looked like. that fresh baked goods tasted superior. Today I try to follow Michael Pollan's seven word mantra: "eat food,not too much,mostly plants." I read content labels constantly. I am afraid if Beyond Meat type products become all that popular I will have little time to eat because I will be too busy reading labels. I need to know what goes into my "not dog" or "tofu turkey" that makes them taste like the real deal. Is the tofu from GMO soybeans? Where and how were the veggies in my veggie burger grown? I like to think that my time is better spent, and my health better off when I can go to a Greenmarket for fresh produce, dairy and meat products; when I can season my food with herbs grown on my Brooklyn apartment terrace; when I do general grocery shopping in local food co-ops and health food stores; when I take a nice walk to do my shopping rather than to the front door to accept a delivery from Fresh Direct, or Amazon, or Blue Apron. The time spent food shopping is more enjoyable than time spent visiting doctors, preparing meals better than therapy.
51
I don't know why this post has only three "recommends." It is really well written, persuasive, and sage.
I humbly suggest that they put some adjectives on the packaging other than "Plausible" and "Good-tasting."
3
More fake food. It would probably taste great.
But I have no doubt that an ingredient label would be an
unpronounceable list of chemicals. You can't build
a healthy body from things whose sole purpose is
to enhance flavor, 'mouth feel', and shelf life.
No thanks.
But I have no doubt that an ingredient label would be an
unpronounceable list of chemicals. You can't build
a healthy body from things whose sole purpose is
to enhance flavor, 'mouth feel', and shelf life.
No thanks.
15
I welcome more and tastier meat substitutes.
As a Vegan, my refrigerator and my body is a GARDEN, not a MORGUE.
As a Vegan, my refrigerator and my body is a GARDEN, not a MORGUE.
26
Hmm ... so there are only LIVE plant materials in your frig?
Aside from those veg products with yeast, most frig veg is 'dead'. If it isn't, I'd be concerned (unhealthy bacteria, fungus, etc.).
As those who study plant life are discovering, plants communicate bio-chemically & perhaps audibly, some actually do movement, and there is some suggestion of some kind of sentience - so we may be killing sentient life when we 'harvest' from our gardens.
There may be plenty of other reasons for eating vegan, but avoiding a 'morgue' isn't one of them.
Aside from those veg products with yeast, most frig veg is 'dead'. If it isn't, I'd be concerned (unhealthy bacteria, fungus, etc.).
As those who study plant life are discovering, plants communicate bio-chemically & perhaps audibly, some actually do movement, and there is some suggestion of some kind of sentience - so we may be killing sentient life when we 'harvest' from our gardens.
There may be plenty of other reasons for eating vegan, but avoiding a 'morgue' isn't one of them.
I've been a vegetarian for over 20 years simply to ease the suffering of animals. I recently ordered faux chicken at a mainstream restaurant that was so convincing that I had the waitress confirm that it wasn't chicken. Another waitress and vegan stopped by my table and complained that faux meats are so real now that she refuses to eat them. My curious and carnivorous dining companions sampled the faux chicken. They were not impressed. In the end, nobody was happy with the faux chicken. The moral of the story: You simply can't please anyone.
3
Call me when short ribs of soy can fool an Argentino into believing he/she is eating beef ribs.
2
If we want to encourage people away from eating flesh, we shouldn't continue to extol meat even if it's fake. But we should still encourage the consumption of food that is tough and chewy because our caveman brains still like to use our sharp teeth to tear away at our meals.
I guess I see how people need to take small steps towards change, but I wonder if ultimately this isn't a step in the wrong direction for our survival as a species.
I guess I see how people need to take small steps towards change, but I wonder if ultimately this isn't a step in the wrong direction for our survival as a species.
3
@John:
If by "caveman" you mean Paleolithic hunter-gatherer, then we still have a mostly Paleolithic _genome_, which expects mostly Paleolithic inputs of food, activity, sleep, etc, for optimal health.
If by "caveman" you mean Paleolithic hunter-gatherer, then we still have a mostly Paleolithic _genome_, which expects mostly Paleolithic inputs of food, activity, sleep, etc, for optimal health.
The definition of marriage is changing. Maybe it's time for the definition of meat to change.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJcMD8Iioh8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJcMD8Iioh8
1
Chris, chemical consumption cannot be better than eating anything natural. I say, leave the chemicals out of the equation, do not give Big Tech power over our food supply and if you don't want to eat meat, eat yummy vegetarian meals instead.
http://greenwei.com/blog/big-tech-tries-to-replace-meat-with-chemicals-b...
http://greenwei.com/blog/big-tech-tries-to-replace-meat-with-chemicals-b...
2
Thanks for writing and publishing this great article. The more great veggie options, the better!
Is Soylent Green far behind? It probably would be cheaper than $14 a pound!
3
Yay, science!
I DO love a burger once/week. And I know I shouldn't. But I also don't believe the "research" (which I haven't seen) that indicates cows are causing more greenhouse emissions than cars. Hasn't that recently been disproven? Can you update us and let us know who funded the research?
3
Some other reader probably thought of this, but if cattle emit all that methane eating grass (which I have no reason to doubt), how much methane will all those grass eating humans emit when our population reaches 9 billion?
6
I'm not sure faking meat is really the way to go. You just want something that tastes great on its own merits. In the past vegetarian alternatives have tended to taste more righteous than good. That has changed dramatically recently. I don't normally feel comfortable promoting brands but we LOVE the Morningstar Farms Veggie Burgers. They have loads of variety, the texture is great and they taste wonderful, what more do you need? The scientists can play but the meatless alternative is already here.
2
The whole idea of turning food over to manufacturers and their processing and chemicals chemicals is disgusting. Seems to me that it would be much better to educate palates and cooking methods to real (natural) vegetable foods.
36
"But if I were a cow, I might be a bit embarrassed by Beyond Meat’s meatballs and Beast Burger."
Embarrassed? I'd say relieved.
Fake meat has its place - but let's not forget that Brussel sprouts, mushrooms and spaghetti squash are all very satisfying, when well-prepared, after you get off the meat addiction.
Embarrassed? I'd say relieved.
Fake meat has its place - but let's not forget that Brussel sprouts, mushrooms and spaghetti squash are all very satisfying, when well-prepared, after you get off the meat addiction.
28
@Irene:
I love brussel sprouts, mushrooms, and spaghetti squash, but none of those are a substitute for the essential nutrients found in animal foods. Do you consider the need to breathe oxygen or the need to drink water to be "addictions"?
I love brussel sprouts, mushrooms, and spaghetti squash, but none of those are a substitute for the essential nutrients found in animal foods. Do you consider the need to breathe oxygen or the need to drink water to be "addictions"?
In some supermarkets you can buy a pound of tofu for a dollar. Even dog food costs more than that. Higher end tofu may cost 3 dollars, and that is cheaper than just about any premium meat.
Another point is that meat eaters on average have twice the cancer rate of non meat eaters.
So you may ask yourself if you wouldn't mind a touch of cancer with your T Bone steak?
Another point is that meat eaters on average have twice the cancer rate of non meat eaters.
So you may ask yourself if you wouldn't mind a touch of cancer with your T Bone steak?
@alxfloyd:
Quality animal foods have never been demonstrated to cause cancer or any other disease in humans. If you want to talk about _processed_ meats, you might have a case that these foods are associated with harm.
Quality animal foods have never been demonstrated to cause cancer or any other disease in humans. If you want to talk about _processed_ meats, you might have a case that these foods are associated with harm.
Welcome to Fake King. May I have your order please. Yes, I want the fake burger on a fake roll with fake catsup and fake cheese. Anything else? Ah yes ..
I want a fake cup of coffee with soy milk and fake sugar. Drive to the nexrt window please.
I want a fake cup of coffee with soy milk and fake sugar. Drive to the nexrt window please.
4
The operative word in this ridiculous essay is "real".
Let's give up "real". Real meat. Real mayonnaise. Real feelings. Real politicians. Let's hear it for fake food. Fake art. Fake feelings. And yes, please switch it over and fool us so you can laugh at our folly.
I'm going to eat as much beef as I can. Hopefully I'll drop dead before any of this comes to pass.
Let's give up "real". Real meat. Real mayonnaise. Real feelings. Real politicians. Let's hear it for fake food. Fake art. Fake feelings. And yes, please switch it over and fool us so you can laugh at our folly.
I'm going to eat as much beef as I can. Hopefully I'll drop dead before any of this comes to pass.
4
Swapping fake chicken for real chicken sounds like a recipe for an allergic reaction of massive proportions! Yeesh, don't experimenet on people, WHole Foods!
After learning All About how animals are raised, and slaughtered, as well as their capacity for fear and suffering, and the pollution this process creates, if you can still eat meat, by all means go ahead. You're pretty much beyond compassionate, rational thought.
1
Are they moving away from using so much un-fermented soy? I hope they will.
Okay, so the hoi polloi will be eating nice "green" meat and the real steaks will be the Beluga caviar of the rich. Got it!
1
Juicy burger. How has that become the common description? Why is it appealing?
Oranges are juicy. Burgers are beefy. Or, if you must, bloody. But you wouldn't want THAT dripping down your chin, would you? Or worse, on your hands.
Oranges are juicy. Burgers are beefy. Or, if you must, bloody. But you wouldn't want THAT dripping down your chin, would you? Or worse, on your hands.
Despite the cost, I buy cage free eggs now and have bought organic milk for years. I don't think these two staples will be replaced by plant protein any time soon, by virtue of the fact that people don't feel as if they are contributing to cruel practices and relate nostalgically to the "old farm" and all that it entails. Organic dairy cows live a far better life than their nonorganic peers, but dairy cows in general, fair better than beef cows. Still, we could all do better with less animal protein, and the offspring of dairy cows across the board meet a sad fate.
There is a state of denial when it comes to the cruelty of animal slaughter, and the raising of living beings solely for the purpose of meat. The majority of those animals live very short lives and often in cramped, inhumane conditions. We probably wouldn't buy much meat if forced to witness the life and slaughter of some of these poor creatures. Beef replaced by vegetable protein would alleviate huge environmental concerns including cleaner air and overgrazing, but it would also do something else: make us feel better. And if we could extend the protein based meats to replace fish, think of the impact it would have on our strained and overfished oceans. And the majority of chickens roaming the world would probably be ornamental egg layers. They are, after all, beautiful birds, And then there's our health, which would benefit enormously. I like the whole concept. I think most people would.
There is a state of denial when it comes to the cruelty of animal slaughter, and the raising of living beings solely for the purpose of meat. The majority of those animals live very short lives and often in cramped, inhumane conditions. We probably wouldn't buy much meat if forced to witness the life and slaughter of some of these poor creatures. Beef replaced by vegetable protein would alleviate huge environmental concerns including cleaner air and overgrazing, but it would also do something else: make us feel better. And if we could extend the protein based meats to replace fish, think of the impact it would have on our strained and overfished oceans. And the majority of chickens roaming the world would probably be ornamental egg layers. They are, after all, beautiful birds, And then there's our health, which would benefit enormously. I like the whole concept. I think most people would.
25
While I don't need to eat 'fake meat' as a vegetarian/vegan, Veggie Heaven in NJ, is my favorite vegan restaurant where you can enjoy healthy food for body and soul. We don't need to contribute to the torture and evil done to God's creatures to satisfy our appetites. Jan, God's Creatures Ministry
1
Fake food? Are you kidding me?
I know people do it all the time. Someone goes on a paleo diet and then they make fake pancakes or a fake dessert using ingredients that imitate the food that they are craving. To me that is kind of pointless. If you crave meat then eat real meat, because fake meat (whatever that really is) is only going to increase your craving, because it isn't,t real meat and will never be as satisfying.
Why not, instead of eating fake meat either eat a real hamburger, or simply swear off any kind of meat - real or fake? For some reason the idea of eating a highly processed fake meat hamburger is making me crave freshly cooked turnips with butter and salt and pepper. Wouldn't,t eating a real vegetable be more satisfying than eating fake meat? Come to think of it, with fake meat you aren't even eating real vegetables. The whole thing is fake. How good can that be for you?
I know people do it all the time. Someone goes on a paleo diet and then they make fake pancakes or a fake dessert using ingredients that imitate the food that they are craving. To me that is kind of pointless. If you crave meat then eat real meat, because fake meat (whatever that really is) is only going to increase your craving, because it isn't,t real meat and will never be as satisfying.
Why not, instead of eating fake meat either eat a real hamburger, or simply swear off any kind of meat - real or fake? For some reason the idea of eating a highly processed fake meat hamburger is making me crave freshly cooked turnips with butter and salt and pepper. Wouldn't,t eating a real vegetable be more satisfying than eating fake meat? Come to think of it, with fake meat you aren't even eating real vegetables. The whole thing is fake. How good can that be for you?
4
To all you vegans, I have just one comment: Vitamin B 12.
Without it in our diet, we die. It is produced only by animals.
In your Brave New World of Frankenstienfurters, it would have to be artificial B 12, produced in chemical factories. What a joke, a "pure, natural, non-processed food diet", and a non-natural, chemical additive just to stay alive.
Without it in our diet, we die. It is produced only by animals.
In your Brave New World of Frankenstienfurters, it would have to be artificial B 12, produced in chemical factories. What a joke, a "pure, natural, non-processed food diet", and a non-natural, chemical additive just to stay alive.
7
Wrong. Animals do not produce vitamin B12, any more than plants do. Vitamin B12 is produced exclusively by bacteria. The only reason it's in the meat supply is that commercially-farmed pigs and chickens are fed vitamin B12 supplements so that it gets into their bodies that eventually wind up on your plate. These are the same type of B 12 supplements that vegans ingest in pill form or in fortified fake meats. Cows, however, are different. Their complex stomach allows them to host the bacteria that produce vitamin B12 and serves as a fermentation chamber in which the bacteria produce the B12. Thus, they are the only commercially-raised animal whose feed does not, in general, need to be supplemented with B12.
Regardless, your reference to B12 is just another rationalization for continuing to participate in the cruel, pointless, exploitation of sentient animals that is the modern "meat" industry. Fake meats are often supplemented with B12, and so is soy milk, so vegans get their B12 in supplemented form just as most omnivores do, once removed through the supplementation of the farmed animal feed supply (with the exception of cows). Many vegans also take a pill to get more B12, just as many omnivores and vegans get their vitamin D in a pill form since most of us at northern latitudes no longer spend enough time in the sun to make sufficient vitamin D. So, the vitamin B12 issue is just a red herring and another rationalization.
Regardless, your reference to B12 is just another rationalization for continuing to participate in the cruel, pointless, exploitation of sentient animals that is the modern "meat" industry. Fake meats are often supplemented with B12, and so is soy milk, so vegans get their B12 in supplemented form just as most omnivores do, once removed through the supplementation of the farmed animal feed supply (with the exception of cows). Many vegans also take a pill to get more B12, just as many omnivores and vegans get their vitamin D in a pill form since most of us at northern latitudes no longer spend enough time in the sun to make sufficient vitamin D. So, the vitamin B12 issue is just a red herring and another rationalization.
2
As a 61 year-old male who has been vegan for 25 years I guess I will have to respond since you started out with "to all you vegans."
B12 is not produced by animals, it is produced by bacteria. It is found in animal flesh because the animal absorbed it from its own gut--either from B12 made by bacteria in their own microbiome, or exogenously from the bacteria in the soil or from other animals. Only a few micrograms are required daily and the liver stores several years worth of B12--so it can take quite awhile to become deficient).
It's true, I am careful to take a tiny B12 tablet a few times a week (it's the only supplement I take). I do this because I may not be ingesting enough soil in my vigorously washed vegetables and it is possible that the bacteria in my own microbiome are not making enough B12.
The irony is that if a vegan gets sick or dies from B12 deficiency, it will make newspaper headlines--because it is so RARE. Whereas, if a meat eater has a heart attack or coronary artery bypass graft nobody mentions it--because it is so COMMON. I should also add that most Americans over age 50 (whether vegan or not) should be supplementing with B12.
B12 is not produced by animals, it is produced by bacteria. It is found in animal flesh because the animal absorbed it from its own gut--either from B12 made by bacteria in their own microbiome, or exogenously from the bacteria in the soil or from other animals. Only a few micrograms are required daily and the liver stores several years worth of B12--so it can take quite awhile to become deficient).
It's true, I am careful to take a tiny B12 tablet a few times a week (it's the only supplement I take). I do this because I may not be ingesting enough soil in my vigorously washed vegetables and it is possible that the bacteria in my own microbiome are not making enough B12.
The irony is that if a vegan gets sick or dies from B12 deficiency, it will make newspaper headlines--because it is so RARE. Whereas, if a meat eater has a heart attack or coronary artery bypass graft nobody mentions it--because it is so COMMON. I should also add that most Americans over age 50 (whether vegan or not) should be supplementing with B12.
1
@Patrick:
Herbivorous animals, like cows, have the specialized gut anatomy and gut microbes to make and absorb enough B12 from an herbivorous diet.
Us omnivores, lacking that gut anatomy and those gut microbes, have to get B12 from animal foods or from supplements. Nobody is claiming that animals make the B12, but it is true that B12 is only found naturally in animal foods.
Herbivorous animals, like cows, have the specialized gut anatomy and gut microbes to make and absorb enough B12 from an herbivorous diet.
Us omnivores, lacking that gut anatomy and those gut microbes, have to get B12 from animal foods or from supplements. Nobody is claiming that animals make the B12, but it is true that B12 is only found naturally in animal foods.
Beans are the meat of the veggie world. Not canned beans; real organic beans soaked and then cooked slowly. A pot of those can last several days and be combined with potatoes, brown rice. Add fresh tomatoes, cumin seeds, whatever you like - beans are extremely satisfying.
2
Too many carbs.
1
Solent Green....... I don't know why this came to mind but it did.
Pretty soon no one will have any choice in what they eat....we won't be told what's in our food or where it comes from. Revolutions in food stuffs gave us products overburdened with gluten, salt, high fructose corn syrup, GMOs and antibiotic and hormone filled meats. I am not optimistic that this revolution is for the good of mankind. I hear the coins flowing already.
Pretty soon no one will have any choice in what they eat....we won't be told what's in our food or where it comes from. Revolutions in food stuffs gave us products overburdened with gluten, salt, high fructose corn syrup, GMOs and antibiotic and hormone filled meats. I am not optimistic that this revolution is for the good of mankind. I hear the coins flowing already.
3
In Los Angeles we have a whole chain of more or less fast food restaurants based on artificial chicken, etc, called VEGGIE GRILL.
Calling them "food" scientists is a misconception. That would be like calling DuPont a "food" company.
2
There should be some concerns about people switching from animal flesh, a part of the human diet since cave days, to an expensive, highly-processed plant diet.
The effort is well-meaning, but the unintended consequences could be deeply troubling. More range land turned to agricultural land has implications for all kinds of wildlife. Most vegetarians and vegans are very careful to make certain they get adequate complete proteins; Would the general public do the same thing?
But back to my original point; i would rather continue as I'm doing, eating a lot less meat than I used to, and spending the money to ensure that it is responsible and humanely raised, than switch to a diet of highly processed plant food. Americans don't need as much meat as they eat. What if we ate half the animal products we do now? (Don't forget, dairy operations are huge contributors to greenhouse gas emissions as well.) Or one-third? What if we made more of those meat choices from poultry rather than cattle? We could make a huge and nearly instant difference in greenhouse gas emissions without the whole corporate model of creating more phony food.
The effort is well-meaning, but the unintended consequences could be deeply troubling. More range land turned to agricultural land has implications for all kinds of wildlife. Most vegetarians and vegans are very careful to make certain they get adequate complete proteins; Would the general public do the same thing?
But back to my original point; i would rather continue as I'm doing, eating a lot less meat than I used to, and spending the money to ensure that it is responsible and humanely raised, than switch to a diet of highly processed plant food. Americans don't need as much meat as they eat. What if we ate half the animal products we do now? (Don't forget, dairy operations are huge contributors to greenhouse gas emissions as well.) Or one-third? What if we made more of those meat choices from poultry rather than cattle? We could make a huge and nearly instant difference in greenhouse gas emissions without the whole corporate model of creating more phony food.
3
You make some good points. However, "humanely raised," is better than the status quo, but it is not humane. Do some research if you can bear it. Poultry is no different in any way from cattle in terms of its "naturalness" or the horrendous life cycle of farm chickens. Cage-free has been a Herculean fight yet it is hardly humane. I really wish people would quit believing something cavemen did has anything to do with nutrition or more generally that humans are "supposed" to eat flesh or that it is in anyway required to have a decent shot at a healthy life. That view is complete poppycock.
This sounds wonderful! Power to these companies. My only concern is that all the "plant fiber" rocket science that is taking place along with infusion of Omega 3 and this and that in these products, how well researched are the long terms effects of all of this? Like just the other day I read an article about how Omega-3 might only be a good thing for the Innuits and not the general public who doesn't solely survive on a meat-based diet. So who knows that right now these products are being pushed for their superior taste and closeness to the actual meat textures and flavors. And then years down the road we all then read a research paper about how there is something about the processing of these non-meat items or some ingredient that causes cancer. Or like how Aspartame and diet drinks and banishing of pure fat has only led to America being a fatter-than-ever nation.
I guess nothing is clear. You don't know who the heck to believe. So it all comes back full circle. If Beyond Meat sounds like a good alternative and if you find it tastes wonderful and if you feel that there is a reasonable amount of research and food safety baked in the processing of these items then just go ahead and enjoy these items. The only truth that remains unchanged is that in the end we all die.
I guess nothing is clear. You don't know who the heck to believe. So it all comes back full circle. If Beyond Meat sounds like a good alternative and if you find it tastes wonderful and if you feel that there is a reasonable amount of research and food safety baked in the processing of these items then just go ahead and enjoy these items. The only truth that remains unchanged is that in the end we all die.
2
I've been sampling the wide variety of meat substitute products for a couple years, and some are delicious! Add a good sauce, and they are very satisfying. Having a pure meat eater write an opinion piece degrading the taste of these products will only hurt the move to a more animal friendly economy. Shame!
I had to make difficult decisions about my diet after watching the documentaries Cowspiracy and Vegucated. As the first film makes clear, you can't truly call yourself an environmentalist if you continue to eat animals or dairy products. I sincerely hope our large environmental organizations like Greenpeace show bravery and start to take on the animal agriculture industry. This industry is "eating up our planet" and is directly implicated in environmental degradation, human hunger, and land scarcity.
2
The big, and apparently so far insurmountable problem with fake meat is that the amino acid composition is that of plants and so is lacking in the sulfur amino acids methionine and cysteine. Until this problem is solved fake meat will continue to be just glorified tofu.
2
An old science fiction story describing a world population grown to large to support its desire for meat. After a series of global warming events, production beef, pork and poultry were virtually none existent. Farm land, or what was left of it, was used to produce grain for human consumption. Starvation was averted by going vegetarian but soon peoples craving for meat returned. Scientist came up with synthetic meats. Most people never even tasted meat so they snatched it up and as time went by companies began adjusting the flavor of their product to suit the consumers taste but they never could get it right. Finally one company came up with a flavor that took the world by storm. Everyone wanted it. Demand couldn't be met. Until a scientist explained why. You see it didn't taste like beef or pork or poultry. It tasted like human flesh.
By the way, I sampled a black bean burger recently. Not bad.
By the way, I sampled a black bean burger recently. Not bad.
Since living in Mexico, I have become a lot less squeamish about eating insects, such as ant larvae, wingless ants (with the wings plucked off the winged ants), grasshoppers. I have yet to try termites, though I hear they are also quite tasty. Insects are loaded with proteins and fats (especially the larvae of various insects), and I am not sure why we don't harvest more of them. They are generally beneficial to the environment, and if farmed in greater quantities, they would be easier on the pocket book. It seems to me his would be a wonderful alternative to give human beings the nutrients we need.
Given that livestock can subsist on plant matter not directly edible by humans, or acreage not suitable for crop cultivation, I once again question whether meat production is as damaging as is asserted here.
Also, I'm skeptical whether fake meat will meat the complete nutritional profile of real meat. It's not just the macronutrients (protein, lipids, etc) but also the micro nutrients (vitamins, minerals, and things we may not even have detected yet) that determine whether the fake meat is equivalent in nutritive value to the real.
Also, I'm skeptical whether fake meat will meat the complete nutritional profile of real meat. It's not just the macronutrients (protein, lipids, etc) but also the micro nutrients (vitamins, minerals, and things we may not even have detected yet) that determine whether the fake meat is equivalent in nutritive value to the real.
3
Fake meat is going to be no more "delicious" than decaying meat from a dead animal.
But it will be accepted readily by people who have come to savor today's foul construction-paper bread, slimy ice cream, gluey mayonnaise, gassed tomatoes, butter that requires the addition of "natural flavor," cheese that needs coloring, creams and eggs and other factory-made stuffs that don't come close to resembling the foods they've replaced.
The "revolution" that is unfolding in the food world, Mr. Kristoff, is to wipe out all genuine food and substitute it with test-tube-cooked glop for the ignorant masses.
But it will be accepted readily by people who have come to savor today's foul construction-paper bread, slimy ice cream, gluey mayonnaise, gassed tomatoes, butter that requires the addition of "natural flavor," cheese that needs coloring, creams and eggs and other factory-made stuffs that don't come close to resembling the foods they've replaced.
The "revolution" that is unfolding in the food world, Mr. Kristoff, is to wipe out all genuine food and substitute it with test-tube-cooked glop for the ignorant masses.
5
I love animals too.Have had 11 yrs) dogs in my lifetime(74 yrs), and 2 rabbits, now have a rescued cat.)I never desired to eat any of my pets, OR abuse them.
I love meat, especially rare beef. When young, the meat was all quite good, and safe.No hamburgers made from scrapings from slaughterhouse floor.C grazed or ate hay.Beef was naturally organic, not fed hormones or etc for heavier weigh-ins.
In the 60s, pregnant w/my 2 child, in NYC, I used to walk to the kosher butcher and have him grind me a lean quarter lb.It was my lunch.I cooked it VERY rare(thus kosher butcher-"cleaner" meat.)
Found myself making it rarer & rarer.It was , sprinkled w/salt and w/a sliced tomato, DELICIOUS!Eventually wound up--eating it raw.It was DELICIOUS! "Steak Tartare?"
While still pregnant, my I went to see Rosemary's Baby.My husband was appalled, but I SO understood(the raw meat-eating.)Anemic?Yep, but also the TASTE.
When the word about bad meat came, I became an organic eater, then a grass-fed.I've read widely on "eating for health", was paleo before Paleo was.Never served raw meat @ table--shock value R not I.But followed the urge for VERY rare burgers.And now thar I'm old, will still go in to Whole Foods & have butcher grind me a quarter-pounder, salt it lightly w/sea salt,eat it raw, sharing it w/ my cat.
I've never felt guilt for those steer.Grass-fed lead a VERY good life.I always put my dying dogs down early rather than later.Quality of life more important than quantity.
I love meat, especially rare beef. When young, the meat was all quite good, and safe.No hamburgers made from scrapings from slaughterhouse floor.C grazed or ate hay.Beef was naturally organic, not fed hormones or etc for heavier weigh-ins.
In the 60s, pregnant w/my 2 child, in NYC, I used to walk to the kosher butcher and have him grind me a lean quarter lb.It was my lunch.I cooked it VERY rare(thus kosher butcher-"cleaner" meat.)
Found myself making it rarer & rarer.It was , sprinkled w/salt and w/a sliced tomato, DELICIOUS!Eventually wound up--eating it raw.It was DELICIOUS! "Steak Tartare?"
While still pregnant, my I went to see Rosemary's Baby.My husband was appalled, but I SO understood(the raw meat-eating.)Anemic?Yep, but also the TASTE.
When the word about bad meat came, I became an organic eater, then a grass-fed.I've read widely on "eating for health", was paleo before Paleo was.Never served raw meat @ table--shock value R not I.But followed the urge for VERY rare burgers.And now thar I'm old, will still go in to Whole Foods & have butcher grind me a quarter-pounder, salt it lightly w/sea salt,eat it raw, sharing it w/ my cat.
I've never felt guilt for those steer.Grass-fed lead a VERY good life.I always put my dying dogs down early rather than later.Quality of life more important than quantity.
4
As we eat the meat, we take on the karma of the sentient creature that was tortured and slaughtered. The fear, the horror....it's in the flesh....and we take it into our bodies, our consciousness.
5
We are stuck on food archetypes! Fake meat, gluten free, Carob chocolate etc etc....something seems wrong with the trend of replacing not so healthy but very tasty food with look likes and taste likes. Our brains and cravings are so used to the original food type that we need to get as close to it as possible but in the process are we not degrading the nutrient density of the baseline ingredients. Instead of having to need a burger or bread or chocolate, shouldn't we come up with new food archetypes? Nutrient dense versions.
1
Almost all nutritional scientists agree we should be moving away from highly processed foods to a diet largely made up of whole foods. This is a step backwards. I agree our current state of factory farming is atrocious and immoral. Lets change our current regulations to ensure more sustainable and humane practices of husbandry.
7
Why bother? Do we make fake baked potatoes out of chicken?
Humans and the animals we feed are the only animals on the planet that eat food that doesn't jibe with their digestive systems. Animals that eat high plant-matter diets have far more complex digestive systems than we do, and even so, their digestion is so incomplete that they have to eat nearly constantly. The brains that evolved to the point where we can debate philosophical issues would not have--could not have--evolved in the absence of meat. This doesn't mean we should be cruel to animals. It is just, to borrow a phase, "an inconvenient truth." If you can't bring yourself to eating meat but you can bring yourself to not considering eggs meat, eat eggs.
In any case, if you want to eat the food that your human digestive system is most suited to digesting...that food is meat. Our digestive system has changed dramatically since the ape years, and is now almost identical to that of a dog.
In any case, if you want to eat the food that your human digestive system is most suited to digesting...that food is meat. Our digestive system has changed dramatically since the ape years, and is now almost identical to that of a dog.
2
Being a family where several people are vegans, and a few others are vegetarians, I have eaten meat substitutes (and dairy substitutes) for years and years....decades, actually.
They are just god awful. They wouldn't fool the dumbest person on earth, or someone born without tastebuds. They smell wrong, the taste wrong, the texture is wrong.
I've cooked with them, because (as I say above) have to occasionally entertain and feed vegans & vegetarians. I have found that vegans especially tend NOT to like vegetables (!!!) and try the hardest to eat a processed diet of fake foods -- fake meats, fake cheese, fake dairy, etc.
Those "meat crumbles" that are supposed to be like crumbled hamburger -- OMG, is that stuff horrible. It not only tastes funny, but the texture is horrible and it often has inexplicable pieces of tough chewy "something" -- it can't be gristle, since it's not meat. It's worse than gristle. It something and it's so gross I have literally gagged on it.
The concept has merit, but the exception is really, really poor. I have concluded that vegans especially just don't like FOOD -- it's not meat per se -- they hate food, they hate things that taste good, they hate & fear pleasure in food and since they feel this way, they seek to destroy good tasting food and pleasure in eating for everyone else.
They are just god awful. They wouldn't fool the dumbest person on earth, or someone born without tastebuds. They smell wrong, the taste wrong, the texture is wrong.
I've cooked with them, because (as I say above) have to occasionally entertain and feed vegans & vegetarians. I have found that vegans especially tend NOT to like vegetables (!!!) and try the hardest to eat a processed diet of fake foods -- fake meats, fake cheese, fake dairy, etc.
Those "meat crumbles" that are supposed to be like crumbled hamburger -- OMG, is that stuff horrible. It not only tastes funny, but the texture is horrible and it often has inexplicable pieces of tough chewy "something" -- it can't be gristle, since it's not meat. It's worse than gristle. It something and it's so gross I have literally gagged on it.
The concept has merit, but the exception is really, really poor. I have concluded that vegans especially just don't like FOOD -- it's not meat per se -- they hate food, they hate things that taste good, they hate & fear pleasure in food and since they feel this way, they seek to destroy good tasting food and pleasure in eating for everyone else.
7
Vegan here, love food. Your vegan and vegetarian relatives might want to seek counseling.
This has got to be the most inaccurate generalization I've ever read. Do you work for the meat industry?
The "need" for fake beef is based on the assumption that we cannot break people of their "addiction" to beef. The first time I tried to give up beef (for cardiac health), I failed because I craved grilled and barbecued meat, and there was no substitute. However, eventually, I just lost interest in beef and I do not miss it.
2. IMHO, the reason that so many people still crave beef is the constant advertising, not only from the beef producers, but from the many sellers, like McDonalds and Wendys. It is hard to get people to consider changing their tastes, when beef is portrayed as a fabulous food many times a day in psychologically manipulative ads. Even if fake beef tastes fabulous, I do not see how it will be any more successful against the onslaught of beef advertising than health-based diets have been.
3. I do not mean to say that beef can never be part of a health-based diet. However, the purpose of modern food advertising is not only to get us to each particular foods, but also to eat more than we need for health. If we ate more appropriate quantities of beef, particularly beef raised in a humane and healthy manner, we would not need fake beef.
2. IMHO, the reason that so many people still crave beef is the constant advertising, not only from the beef producers, but from the many sellers, like McDonalds and Wendys. It is hard to get people to consider changing their tastes, when beef is portrayed as a fabulous food many times a day in psychologically manipulative ads. Even if fake beef tastes fabulous, I do not see how it will be any more successful against the onslaught of beef advertising than health-based diets have been.
3. I do not mean to say that beef can never be part of a health-based diet. However, the purpose of modern food advertising is not only to get us to each particular foods, but also to eat more than we need for health. If we ate more appropriate quantities of beef, particularly beef raised in a humane and healthy manner, we would not need fake beef.
3
Reading this hyped up & warmed over tribute to Corporations & profit driven individuals like Bill Gates eagerness to jump on board the new "veggie is cool" train, I feel vaguely like the character Xi, a Sho of the Kalahari Desert when he discovers a discarded empty glass Coca-Cola bottle & believes it contains great mystery & luck from the heavens. We, the modern man, are so inexorably separated from our natural selves that depended on hunting and gathering and observance of the environment, climate & natural habitat that we are more than willing to give up our natural hunger for real meat and instead are willing to preclude our basic instinct in favor of Corporate food which insists it is environmentally preferable which is vaguely similar to the plot from the movie Soylent Green. My hunch is that the CEO's of these supposedly "green" companies live a life which is very different from that which they peddle including the preference for 10,000 sq. ft. mansions, 55 metre luxury yachts, 3rd & 4th luxury vacation villas in the South of France & an assortment of luxury vehicles including Lexus, Mercedes, BMW, Porsche, Cadillac, Lincoln Continental, Ferrari, etc. Talk about Capitalist hypocrites who talk a good game although live an entirely different life than the one that they peddle to their potential consumers. Now that's (Fake) environmentalism in it's most grotesque form imaginable!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnxb-nSHM7M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnxb-nSHM7M
6
"... My take is that the optimal approach to food, for health and ethical reasons, may be vegetarianism. But the average American still consumes close to half a pound of meat a day..." It's a class thing and a capitalist thing. Look at the folks who still smoke. Smoking's not going away, statistics notwithstanding or standing outside, and it shows. Folks will never get used to vegetarianism. Not in the cellphone era and not in your lifetime. Despite that Bill and Melinda will get richer.
1
"My take is that the optimal approach to food, for health and ethical reasons, may be vegetarianism." How about moderation in everything we do and eat, and following the food pyramid of nutritional consumption? Anytime modifying and altering the natural composition of food enter the picture, we end up getting the unintended ill consequences and the interplay of capitalism.
It all comes down to mind over matter. If you don't want to eat meat, you won't. Once that happens, you don't even miss it.
What does it say about people who need something to fake bleed for it to be palatable?
What does it say about people who need something to fake bleed for it to be palatable?
1
well, it brings to mind things that have even less impact...like this http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/16/scientist-poop-burger-video_n_8...
I always prefer "fake" meat. There are no surprises. I have bitten into to many gross things in beef in my life. And that takes my appetite away completely!
Good luck to these companies. I look forward to trying the products soon. Will look for them tomorrow.
In the meantime, Blossom in New York has FANTASTIC chicken alternatives. Without the surprises. :) And without the guilt.
Good luck to these companies. I look forward to trying the products soon. Will look for them tomorrow.
In the meantime, Blossom in New York has FANTASTIC chicken alternatives. Without the surprises. :) And without the guilt.
I have to agree with the comment that what is already try will remain true--that the more processed the food, the less healthy it's going to be.
I am also convinced that if we were to come up with some replica meat products that were as good as the real thing, then cows, pigs, and chickens would soon be on the verge of extinction. If we don't need 'em, chuck 'em. And, if we need 'em, chuck 'em too.
I am also convinced that if we were to come up with some replica meat products that were as good as the real thing, then cows, pigs, and chickens would soon be on the verge of extinction. If we don't need 'em, chuck 'em. And, if we need 'em, chuck 'em too.
We don't need highly processed fake meat wrapped in non-recyclable cardboard and plastic, and we don't need GMOs either. Simply cut back on meat consumption. There's no reason the average American needs to eat a half pound of meat every day. It doesn't have to be a huge change. You don't need to become vegetarian or vegan (though eventually you might, as I have, when you start to feel better). Just eat a bit less meat and a bit more fruit and vegetables. It's better for you, it's better for the environment, and you'll save money to boot. Plus you can feel great about "feeding the world" as more land becomes available to grow grains and vegetables for human consumption rather than GMO corn and soy for livestock production. When I first went veg I ate fake meat to replace the stuff I used to eat, like bacon and hamburgers. Then one day it hit me...why don't I just enjoy fruits and vegetables for what they are, instead of trying to make them into something they're not? There are so many amazing non-meat recipes online. Think of it as expanding your horizons instead of doing without.
95
@ugh:
I was fat, sick, and pre-diabetic on the near vegetarian diet that you recommend. Since I started eating more quality meats and fats, I am healthier and leaner. So let's dispense with the "one size fits all advice."
I was fat, sick, and pre-diabetic on the near vegetarian diet that you recommend. Since I started eating more quality meats and fats, I am healthier and leaner. So let's dispense with the "one size fits all advice."
Given the costs, and I don't mean just dollars, of raising animals, we must evolve from this notion that we are entitled to meat and dairy. The situation is just barbaric, not only for the animals but for the people working in it. So along with the money, there is also the soul sucking work and the resulting cruelty which is beyond belief.
How wonderful would it be if production was scaled back to a sensible and humane level and people ate meat and dairy occasionally instead of in every single thing they put in their mouths.
How wonderful would it be if production was scaled back to a sensible and humane level and people ate meat and dairy occasionally instead of in every single thing they put in their mouths.
3
@FARAFIELD:
Humans have been eating animal foods since before we were even human, we are adapted to get many of our essential nutrients from animal foods. Evolutionary adaptation to a new diet will take thousands of generations.
Humans have been eating animal foods since before we were even human, we are adapted to get many of our essential nutrients from animal foods. Evolutionary adaptation to a new diet will take thousands of generations.
Given how many nutritional choices we now have, if you are still eating meat, you are just cruel and selfish. Why kill an animal (one that values its life every bit as much as you value your own--think Darwin) when you don't need to? Ah, yes, you like to have a very particular sensation on your taste buds.
Like I said: cruel and selfish.
Like I said: cruel and selfish.
3
There is a Chinese restaurant in Teaneck and Montclair New Jersey called Veggie Heaven that use fake meat and chicken in their dishes. I find it impossible to tell the difference from actual chicken and meat. I look forward to the day when I can find these products on my supermarket shelf.
What happened to actual meat grown in glass? Is that off the table?
Beyond Meat is showing its plant substitute products as being made with non-GMO pea or soy protein. I certainly hope so! My very well-educated, completely "down to earth" doctor won't touch anything -- even what health food stores offer -- that contains soy, saying one can't be sure of non-contamination. When one considers that more than 90 percent of the soy produced in the USA contains GMOs, I have to hope that the alternatives on offer ARE truly what they say -- non-GMO.
2
My kneejerk response to an article like this would normally be to mock it and make quips about Soylent Green. However, we do need to seriously consider sustainability, in terms of both resource availability and the environment, so I really am curious to see where this goes.
The biggest problem of course is that although vegetarians have claimed for decades that their diet is inherently "healthier" than an omnivorous diet, their claims simply do not stand up to scientific scrutiny. Sure, if you compare a generally health-conscious vegetarian to a 300 pound couch potato, the vegetarian will be healthier. But it has nothing to do with the fact that the couch potato eats meat; it is because of all the other lifestyle decisions regarding physical activity, quantity of food, etc. When comparisons are made between people of generally similar lifestyles, the vaunted health benefits of vegetarianism disappear.
5
Not true. Continuing and significant national and international studies have proven beyond a doubt that eating a plant-based or plant-focused diet is healthier. See: Bad Cowboy, Deadly Feasts (regarding mad cow disease) , Forks Over Knives, etc. etc etc., not to mention the bacteria, cancer-causing (estrogen/female) hormones, and antibiotics that lead to superbugs and kill an estimated 23K US citizens/year.
As a vegetarian for the last 10 years, I do not want to pay for meaters' obesity and diseases and general poor health - but the ACA forces me to since my insurance rates include the higher costs of their care, and I get NO discount for being a healthy vegetarian.
As a vegetarian for the last 10 years, I do not want to pay for meaters' obesity and diseases and general poor health - but the ACA forces me to since my insurance rates include the higher costs of their care, and I get NO discount for being a healthy vegetarian.
@Anita:
Observational studies based on "food recall surveys" and riddled with confounding variables have demonstrated that a vegetarian-ish diet is healthier than a "standard American diet." Even if we overlook the unreliability the survey data, you couldn't possibly set a lower bar of comparison.
In the world of actual experimental trials, with human subjects, people lose weight and get healthier when they eat a high(er) fat diet, including animal foods, compared to the standard "low fat" dietary advice.
Observational studies based on "food recall surveys" and riddled with confounding variables have demonstrated that a vegetarian-ish diet is healthier than a "standard American diet." Even if we overlook the unreliability the survey data, you couldn't possibly set a lower bar of comparison.
In the world of actual experimental trials, with human subjects, people lose weight and get healthier when they eat a high(er) fat diet, including animal foods, compared to the standard "low fat" dietary advice.
1
I realize this piece is conceptual but have a bit of pragmatism that must be inserted before the fake meat bubble gets too big - splattering us all with ideological paunch manure - and that is about the life cycle burden of any or most of the cited processes. Animal husbandry is water intensive, of course. So will be the fake meat processes. Same issue on energy, if one covers the entire supply chain, including the growing and shipping and distributing of said "plant materials. " Hold off on the promotional talk Nick, until the researchers share their numbers in M-Joules per/Kg and hectares of watercconsumed/Kg of fake meat delivered to the store! Same
1
I am a sceptic. You want me to replace all-natural, grass-fed, beef with something created by chemists? That's supposed to be better for me?
9
We can stop brutalizing farm animals right now. Why condemn billions of sentient beings to entire lives of torture every year? The Europeans don't.
It is really subsidies by our tax dollars - massive corporate welfare - that keeps the death spiral turning - the spiral of making US citizens sick, torturing farm animals and destroying the planet.
Write about that, Mr. Kristof!
It is really subsidies by our tax dollars - massive corporate welfare - that keeps the death spiral turning - the spiral of making US citizens sick, torturing farm animals and destroying the planet.
Write about that, Mr. Kristof!
14
I'm not big on processed foods, but if it's likely to lessen the number of cowboys and their influence on politics, then I'll eat it.
3
Ah yes, healthy humane manufactured meat. Technology Review magazine reported on the imminence of Fake meat based on a chitin substrate back in 1980. (Chitin is a polymer found in fingernails and lobster shells) Well, that revolution never came and this latest one won't either. And you can add miracle materials made of carbon nano-tubes to the list of things you won't see on store shelves in the future. But that fact won't stop academics, federally funded research labs and SBIR scammers from siphoning off you hard earned tax dollars to continue to pursue bad ideas that have proven themselves worthless by decades of non-results.
1
Not only will it happen but it has. Faux meat products have been around for centuries in Asia. American conpanies have created products that are healthy and cruelty free. The dairy and meat industry receives millions in subsidies from the government and that industry is riddled with secrecy, illness, and recalls. . I urge you to try one of the better vegan restaurants in your City. My strictly carnivorous friends love the plant based meats they have tried.
5
With all the potential calamities due to global warming, especially potable water supplies, developing a diet that does not produce solid waste, aka poop, may be a helpful thing. Think of all the resources and facilities required to accept, transport, and process this unpleasant substance. Such an prodigious undertaking could be coupled with the development of the technologies to put a person on Mars.
The meat revolution with all its vegetable bulk and fiber may actually increase solid waste volume and require additional transportation and processing facilities.
I suspect that Elon Musk already has a team brainstorming the subject.
The meat revolution with all its vegetable bulk and fiber may actually increase solid waste volume and require additional transportation and processing facilities.
I suspect that Elon Musk already has a team brainstorming the subject.
1
If these food scientists would like to make a quantum leap in flavor, texture and affordability in "vegan meat', they should visit the Au Lac Vegetarian Super Market at 80 Le Duan Street in Da Nang Viet Nam. They offer everything from the mundane--chicken, beef and pork, to the exotic--snail, muscles and cuttlefish...along with faux luncheon meats and meat spreads. Their products are indistinguishable from real meat. And, none of it is imported from China! I am baffled why the US lags so far behind in this area.
2
There is so much delicious food and recipes that have no meat.
Unbelievably good, tasty, nutritious stuff.
You just need to go for it.
Unbelievably good, tasty, nutritious stuff.
You just need to go for it.
9
People don't care about the nutritional value of meat, they just want the sensation and taste that goes with it. But they always bring up the issue of protein and vitamin B-12. "Where are you going to get that?"', they say. But they never wonder about all the harmful effects of animal food's nightmare of harm to the body until some doctor tells them it would be better if they became vegan and got off all animal products including milk and eggs. I am a 72 year old life-long vegetarian who converted to veganism thirty years ago, not for my own health but because when I put two and two together and saw that the egg and dairy mega-industry is just as cruel to cows and chickens as the slaughter industry (indeed, it is the slaughter industry), I looked in the mirror just one time and immediately stopped that stuff. My health has always been excellent though and still is because I have forgone the intake of meat all these decades.
But, I grew up occasionally eating all sorts of fake meat and really loved it. It's all based on taste developed from childhood. A person would love leaves from a tree, as do the chimps and gorillas if he started on it from childhood.
The point is though, that we just plain don't need all the protein the government says we need! They are complicit in a vast conspiracy that shouldn't surprise or shock anyone to push meat, dairy, eggs, fish, and all of it down our throats because it is big biz.
But, I grew up occasionally eating all sorts of fake meat and really loved it. It's all based on taste developed from childhood. A person would love leaves from a tree, as do the chimps and gorillas if he started on it from childhood.
The point is though, that we just plain don't need all the protein the government says we need! They are complicit in a vast conspiracy that shouldn't surprise or shock anyone to push meat, dairy, eggs, fish, and all of it down our throats because it is big biz.
3
@John Michel:
We don't need all the protein the government says we need -- we need more. The recommended USDA diet is an overdose of carbs, and an "underdose" of protein and healthy fats.
We don't need all the protein the government says we need -- we need more. The recommended USDA diet is an overdose of carbs, and an "underdose" of protein and healthy fats.
Why don't you eat burgers made from bison? They graze on the prairie, which doesn't require watering or fertilizing. They are never confined and mis-treated. Bison Burgers are readily available in the frozen food section of many supermarkets.
6
Unfortunately that is not true about bison ... depending on the producer they can very much be confined and grain fed. Look for bison with the American Grassfed Association label - this ensures they are pasture raised ....
What's disturbing and infuriating to me in all such conversations is the moral and ethical aspect that takes a backseat and is listed last, like an afterthought. It should be the FIRST consideration involving animals. They have equal rights like human beings.
People who make too much of a song and dance about environmental degradation and climate change when talking about vegetarianism strike me as no less narcissist and selfish than other meat-eaters. The planet will go on with or without you, but you're directly killing billions of sentient beings every year in the most brutal manner. Why is this not more important than everything else?
People who make too much of a song and dance about environmental degradation and climate change when talking about vegetarianism strike me as no less narcissist and selfish than other meat-eaters. The planet will go on with or without you, but you're directly killing billions of sentient beings every year in the most brutal manner. Why is this not more important than everything else?
13
My sentiments exactly. How morally bankrupt are we when we know full well that meat production is outrageously cruel and environmentally devastating, yet we refuse to change our participation unless scientists develop an identical alternative? Sometimes doing the right thing involves a modicum of personal effort and responsibility. Besides, there's already plenty of delicious animal-free food out there that makes no effort to replicate meat. We vegans don't all live on frozen veggie burgers.
7
I don't eat meat because I dislike the odor. Meat smells, to me, exactly like what it is: a dead animal. That dead animal had likely lived for a very short time under brutal conditions. And died a horrible death.
Meat-eaters are not just immoral and unethical. They are cannibals.
Meat-eaters are not just immoral and unethical. They are cannibals.
1
Sorry, but none of this makes me change my mind. I like meat. Give me real meat anytime over what's fake, as any way you slice it, it's stil a fake.
2
This is going to be the food for the masses. While the ruling elite will eat real meat the rest of us mortal peasants can eat our soylent green.
3
Don't change a thing. Fake meat is supposed to taste awful, so that those who eat it will feel good about their suffering. Listen up - people aren't exactly dropping dead in the street from prime steaks. Humans live longer these days than ever before in the history of the planet. We must finally be doing something right yet some people just can't stand it. Carry on - and make mine medium rare!
5
Uh, yes they are droppping dead in the streets or at home. Ever see the obits w/photos of overweight people oin their 50's that say "died unexpectedly" or "died suddenly"? What about the 23,000 Americans who die every year from superbugs because antiobiotics don't work anymore - because over 80% of the antibiotics used oin the US annually are fed to CAFO animals????
Aren't you mad that you've been so totally brainwashed by Big Meat that you can't see their lies?
Aren't you mad that you've been so totally brainwashed by Big Meat that you can't see their lies?
"Moreover, prices are still a bit higher than real meat."
Are you forgetting how heavily-subsidized the meat and dairy industries are? If we were to level the playing field and either eliminate the subsidies to animal agriculture or subsidize the vegan food industry in the same way, I think the price of Beyond Meat and other vegan "meats" would become very competitive.
I'm disabled and living below the poverty level; I still find a vegan diet to be very affordable—both in the short term, and the long term.
Are you forgetting how heavily-subsidized the meat and dairy industries are? If we were to level the playing field and either eliminate the subsidies to animal agriculture or subsidize the vegan food industry in the same way, I think the price of Beyond Meat and other vegan "meats" would become very competitive.
I'm disabled and living below the poverty level; I still find a vegan diet to be very affordable—both in the short term, and the long term.
9
Until "faux meat" is 100% blind taste test IDENTICLE to the actual dead animal protein, I will not be even slightly interested. And don't try to fool me with "meat" that must be smothered in some aromatic sauce to hid a weird smell or off taste. When the delicate flavors of roasting and searing are indistinguishable from a real carcass, and I can experience the taste symphony which is a combination of silky marbling and juicy flesh coating my sophisticated palate, I'll give it a try.
12
odd your description of dinner as "dead animal protein" and "real carcass" sounds more like roadkill
1
I wonder if you'd feel this way if you looked into an animal's eyes as they were being led to slaughter and you saw firsthand the fear and wish to live. Sophisticated palate but heartless soul?
1
Wait, you won't even try it before it's perfect? Not all meat is perfect. Sometimes it's just fast and easy to make a burger/hot dog, not necessarily the jewel of gourmands everywhere.
1
"Sure, meat may pave the way to a heart attack."
You're own paper does not seem to agree with you:
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/03/17/study-questions-fat-and-heart-d...
"a large and exhaustive new analysis by a team of international scientists found no evidence that eating saturated fat increased heart attacks and other cardiac events."
If anything processed foods seem to be the issue, and if the fake meat is highly processed with chemicals it could be worse health-wise than occasional red meat.
You're own paper does not seem to agree with you:
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/03/17/study-questions-fat-and-heart-d...
"a large and exhaustive new analysis by a team of international scientists found no evidence that eating saturated fat increased heart attacks and other cardiac events."
If anything processed foods seem to be the issue, and if the fake meat is highly processed with chemicals it could be worse health-wise than occasional red meat.
7
Go watch a Mercy for Animals video on FB and you won't feel so good about that 'juicy' burger anymore.
4
I love tricking my friends into thinking that they are having an Indian dish called Keema, which is ground beef or lamb with spices. Instead I use a fake ground beef. It fools them everytime.
However, the other fake meat products out there don't really taste or look like real meat, and I actually prefer it that way. As a vegetarian, why would I want to eat fake meat that looks and tastes like real meat?
However, the other fake meat products out there don't really taste or look like real meat, and I actually prefer it that way. As a vegetarian, why would I want to eat fake meat that looks and tastes like real meat?
2
Lesa people, not less meat. It's overpopulation that is destroying the plaent and all living things on it just so , ankind can continue to sprawl over every square inch of land.
5
You want to see how far fake meats have come? Visit one of the Native Foods or Loving Hut chain restaurants. You will be quite surprised.
Taste is something you get over and it is a lot easier if you understand the present system of meat production is simply unsustainable, besides being barbaric and cruel.
Taste is something you get over and it is a lot easier if you understand the present system of meat production is simply unsustainable, besides being barbaric and cruel.
7
For those of you who floss, you may have noticed that meat is much more difficult to pry out of those corners between your teeth. I remember as a kid my father telling me that apples clean your teeth. They kind of do. Most veggies do the same, with all that cellulose they sport.
If indeed you are a flosser, you must have noticed how much more difficult it is to get meat out of the crevices between your teeth, and how quickly not doing so can cause pain and nascent infection.
Just one more fact for those who want to change their eating habits. I still eat meat, sad to say, but I floss extra hard when I do, and every time I have a veggie dinner I notice how much easier that is.
If indeed you are a flosser, you must have noticed how much more difficult it is to get meat out of the crevices between your teeth, and how quickly not doing so can cause pain and nascent infection.
Just one more fact for those who want to change their eating habits. I still eat meat, sad to say, but I floss extra hard when I do, and every time I have a veggie dinner I notice how much easier that is.
2
@Onbeyondzen:
Except meat and fat don't cause dental caries, only sugar and starch cause tooth decay.
Except meat and fat don't cause dental caries, only sugar and starch cause tooth decay.
The idea of giving up meat in favor of factory produced protein would be a lot easier to contemplate if we had the slightest reason to trust corporations not to sell out our safety for their profits.
5
I'd be much more concerned about trusting those people to produce meat safely.
Nick if you haven't tried a porcini mushroom burger, no scientific alterations needed as It is thick, meaty and juicy with exquisite taste.
4
Thirty years ago, my wife announced that she was going to become a vegetarian. The fact that she was the lab worker who did tests on meat for Utah at the time had nothing to do with it. (OH no!!) Anyway, I held out for two or three weeks while we managed a split menu and then caved in.
It was really hard at first. And it was difficult for years. Today, I couldn't be happier about it.
Foods that actually taste like meat are a horrible idea. If you fall for that, you're missing some of the best parts of vegetarianism. Meat is full of gristle and bone and stuff that defies explanation. Vegetarian foods are good all the way through ... no worries. And cooking animal fats create an aerosol that sticks to everything. After a while, a meat kitchen has a sticky layer on it that collects dust and is just plain disgusting.
The main thing that has started to happen for us is that vegetarian foods have FINALLY started to become relatively cheaper as the technology improves and the economy of scale does it's magic.
I made a coffee mug for myself featuring a red pentagram of forks and the legend: Praise Seitan! And I do.
It was really hard at first. And it was difficult for years. Today, I couldn't be happier about it.
Foods that actually taste like meat are a horrible idea. If you fall for that, you're missing some of the best parts of vegetarianism. Meat is full of gristle and bone and stuff that defies explanation. Vegetarian foods are good all the way through ... no worries. And cooking animal fats create an aerosol that sticks to everything. After a while, a meat kitchen has a sticky layer on it that collects dust and is just plain disgusting.
The main thing that has started to happen for us is that vegetarian foods have FINALLY started to become relatively cheaper as the technology improves and the economy of scale does it's magic.
I made a coffee mug for myself featuring a red pentagram of forks and the legend: Praise Seitan! And I do.
5
I have made all kinds of changes to my diet, in hopes of a reward to my health, taking the meat out of pizza, pasta, and just about everything, but a steak. I don't mind it a bit. But, I do think men require more meat than women. In our family, I can go days, if not weeks, and never miss it --- the boys can't seem to go a day.
2
You can't draw a conclusion from such a small data sample, especially given the societal expectations we are all subject to.
I, for example, could say exactly the opposite. I used to love meat, especially rare steak, the taste of which I refused to dilute with steak sauce. I also loved raw fish. My husband was not into steak or raw fish but liked hamburgers. In early 2013, we both switched to a plant-based diet. I still miss steak and raw fish, whereas my husband says he does not miss meat at all. What he does miss is cheese, but fortunately there are some great cheese substitutes on the market now. Everybody is different.
I, for example, could say exactly the opposite. I used to love meat, especially rare steak, the taste of which I refused to dilute with steak sauce. I also loved raw fish. My husband was not into steak or raw fish but liked hamburgers. In early 2013, we both switched to a plant-based diet. I still miss steak and raw fish, whereas my husband says he does not miss meat at all. What he does miss is cheese, but fortunately there are some great cheese substitutes on the market now. Everybody is different.
If you want to reward your health maybe you should take the pizza and pasta out of the meat. The great fat scare, especially saturated fat, has caused more harm than any other dietary change. It forced everyone to increase carbs which lead to obesity, diabetes, heart attacks. Everyone was on cholesterol drugs which has further exacerbated the problems. Cholesterol is and never has been a problem. The information is readily available, I don't know what the big debate is. Fat is good for you and necessary. Btw, the medical world will be declaring cholesterol a non issue sometime this year. Fat also but for some reason they cannot admit saturated fat has nothing to do with heart problems even though the studies show the opposite.
1
Thanks Elliot and H.G.
H.G. you are right, my family is a small data sample, but I do wonder overall. It makes sense to question such, as men with more muscle may require more protein. (what is this protein stuff they all drink?) (But I'm not sure protein outside the body has anything to do with protein inside the body - it might be fat, as a baby drinks lots of milk before walking, and I remember how my mother taught, the babies would put on weight, (require more milk - baby fat) before walking?
Elliot --- well, I caught the egg scare, cholesterol in the egg didn't lead to higher cholesterol in the body. I believe I read it to be saturated fat. And then I think there is a difference between poly and mono, so, with no brains, I switched to olive oil. As to the meat, my father was dead at 51. I have read heart disease can be cured by removing meat (anything with a face) from the diet. So, although, I could never go without it completely, I have tried to remove it here and there. Plus, I figure if there is a shortage, it will help if I can go without. (take it all with a grain of salt --- I just typed veracious for voracious, too!
H.G. you are right, my family is a small data sample, but I do wonder overall. It makes sense to question such, as men with more muscle may require more protein. (what is this protein stuff they all drink?) (But I'm not sure protein outside the body has anything to do with protein inside the body - it might be fat, as a baby drinks lots of milk before walking, and I remember how my mother taught, the babies would put on weight, (require more milk - baby fat) before walking?
Elliot --- well, I caught the egg scare, cholesterol in the egg didn't lead to higher cholesterol in the body. I believe I read it to be saturated fat. And then I think there is a difference between poly and mono, so, with no brains, I switched to olive oil. As to the meat, my father was dead at 51. I have read heart disease can be cured by removing meat (anything with a face) from the diet. So, although, I could never go without it completely, I have tried to remove it here and there. Plus, I figure if there is a shortage, it will help if I can go without. (take it all with a grain of salt --- I just typed veracious for voracious, too!
One hundred years ago there were pig varieties that supplied oil for lamps and there were pig varieties that supplied meat. Today there are no oil pigs. Tomorrow pigs may be seen only in zoos. We have beef cattle and we have dairy cattle tomorrow who knows. Today we have laying hens and Cornish crosses tomorrow who knows. I believe we should be eating less meat but above all let us treat our food with more respect and if it is sentient let us treat it humanely.
3
There are many delicious fake meat options out there already. You do have to try them out and find the ones the work for you. Some just aren't all that tasty, at least to me, but some are outstanding. Lightlife's "Fakin Bacon," made from tempeh, is terrific (some fake bacons are pretty bad), and it is not highly processed. (Tempeh is a great ingredient in your own recipes too.) Gardein's "Beefless Burger" is a really good faux burger with juiciness and texture of a beef burger. But many people like the veggie or vegan burgers that don't try to replicate beef, but instead create an alternative experience -- like black bean burgers (you can make your own -- recipes abound on the web) I used to love real meat -- I don't miss it at all. And remember, it doesn't have to be all or nothing. Even eating less meat can have a positive impact on your health, the environment and animals.
71
This all sounds over-processed; I'm sticking to homemade quinoa cakes and falafel.
63
Fake is worse than real but OK if healthier? Even better, how about be real and healthy? Veggie burgers can taste worse than meat burgers but have more ingredients and can taste better. (NYTimes published some great recipes.)
Meat was important to our survival back in the days of 50 year life expectancy. There's plenty of research linking meat (and dairy) to arterial plaque and heart disease in older folks. For those who'd rather not live to 90, they probably will, wouldn't they rather be active then?
Meat was important to our survival back in the days of 50 year life expectancy. There's plenty of research linking meat (and dairy) to arterial plaque and heart disease in older folks. For those who'd rather not live to 90, they probably will, wouldn't they rather be active then?
@Oreamnos:
The "research" you refer to are observational studies, based on food recall surveys, where people who eat more meat, more processed meats, more sugar, more processed foods, less vegetables, get less exercise, and smoke more cigarettes are at a greater risk of heart disease compared to people who are the opposite of all those behaviors.
It's riddled with confounding variables, even if we accept the survey data as accurate (they're not). Any one of those factors could be an independent risk for heart disease, and the meat likely has nothing to do with it.
Meanwhile, quality animal foods have _never_ been demonstrated to cause harm in an experimental trial with human subjects -- in fact, quite the opposite has been the result. Most experimental trials with humans show that health is improved and weight is lost when people eat more naturally fatty foods, including meat, fish, eggs, and dairy.
The "research" you refer to are observational studies, based on food recall surveys, where people who eat more meat, more processed meats, more sugar, more processed foods, less vegetables, get less exercise, and smoke more cigarettes are at a greater risk of heart disease compared to people who are the opposite of all those behaviors.
It's riddled with confounding variables, even if we accept the survey data as accurate (they're not). Any one of those factors could be an independent risk for heart disease, and the meat likely has nothing to do with it.
Meanwhile, quality animal foods have _never_ been demonstrated to cause harm in an experimental trial with human subjects -- in fact, quite the opposite has been the result. Most experimental trials with humans show that health is improved and weight is lost when people eat more naturally fatty foods, including meat, fish, eggs, and dairy.
Lima Linda foods has been making vegetarian alternatives to meat for many years and had vegeburgers long before most of us had ever heard of them.
No cow/calf/steer heading to their sudden death in the slaughterhouse would be embarrassed by Beyond Meat’s meatballs and Beast Burger.
4
I agree. I found that sentence insulting, and evocative of the indifference to massive-scale animal suffering this piece exudes.
Fake meat is a sophomoric culinary distraction and nothing more. One cannot replace the taste of a steak filled with the rich blood of a Angus Cow.
3
I'm all for it! But...
I turned to soy sausage awhile ago. It's about $3.50 at any major grocery store and it is fine when mixed in with salad or substituted in for sausage for breakfast. You can even roll it into meatballs and have it with tomato sauce. I also enjoy soy noodles instead of pasta. But that's about it. I tried the fake pepperoni -- awful. And, truth be told, after a few weeks of eating like this (although good calorie-wise), I feel the need to have something more substantial. You know, like a steak. Sorry, Nick.
I turned to soy sausage awhile ago. It's about $3.50 at any major grocery store and it is fine when mixed in with salad or substituted in for sausage for breakfast. You can even roll it into meatballs and have it with tomato sauce. I also enjoy soy noodles instead of pasta. But that's about it. I tried the fake pepperoni -- awful. And, truth be told, after a few weeks of eating like this (although good calorie-wise), I feel the need to have something more substantial. You know, like a steak. Sorry, Nick.
1
The Patrick O. Brown of Impossible Foods invented the microarray and open access science publication. If he now has good tasting non-meat-derived protein sources, it behooves us to check it out.
I don't want anyone to suffer. My best friend, Duke, was suffering and he died yesterday. Good for him.
Duke loved "Waikiki Burgers", a one-third pound sirloin beef patty, grilled on his porch bar-b-q in Hawaii, topped with strips of bacon and grilled fresh pineapple on a thick, sesame-seed bun basted with mayonnaise on one side and ketchup on the other. The finishing touch? a leafy-green slab of lettuce on the mayonnaise side. That was for openers.
I can't count the years those flames went flying into the night air as we stood Duke's treehouse second-story porch, nestled among the branches of a small mountainside pine forest overlooking the view of a Pacific Ocean Waikiki sunset and the glittering lights of Honolulu below, with the silver umbrella of stars in the night-sky above.
The girls were scintillating, bikini-clad, beach-bunny charmers attracted by Duke's professorial status at the University of Hawaii, my own charms as the #1 television newscaster in Hawaii, and a dozen other guys who were the "Wild Bunch" bachelors of Hawaii.
We played cards, "Tonk", after the Waikiki Burgers. Duke would break out the Wild Turkey Bourbon Whisky.
"A shot of whisky never hurts ounce and awhile," Duke would say, lighting up a smoke.
Girls weren't allowed to play "Tonk", and they stayed anyway for the drinks and deserts after the card game.
Waikiki Burgers, bourbon and smoke killed Duke. I'm alive, the non-smoking, vegetarian, teetotaler.
[email protected]
Duke loved "Waikiki Burgers", a one-third pound sirloin beef patty, grilled on his porch bar-b-q in Hawaii, topped with strips of bacon and grilled fresh pineapple on a thick, sesame-seed bun basted with mayonnaise on one side and ketchup on the other. The finishing touch? a leafy-green slab of lettuce on the mayonnaise side. That was for openers.
I can't count the years those flames went flying into the night air as we stood Duke's treehouse second-story porch, nestled among the branches of a small mountainside pine forest overlooking the view of a Pacific Ocean Waikiki sunset and the glittering lights of Honolulu below, with the silver umbrella of stars in the night-sky above.
The girls were scintillating, bikini-clad, beach-bunny charmers attracted by Duke's professorial status at the University of Hawaii, my own charms as the #1 television newscaster in Hawaii, and a dozen other guys who were the "Wild Bunch" bachelors of Hawaii.
We played cards, "Tonk", after the Waikiki Burgers. Duke would break out the Wild Turkey Bourbon Whisky.
"A shot of whisky never hurts ounce and awhile," Duke would say, lighting up a smoke.
Girls weren't allowed to play "Tonk", and they stayed anyway for the drinks and deserts after the card game.
Waikiki Burgers, bourbon and smoke killed Duke. I'm alive, the non-smoking, vegetarian, teetotaler.
[email protected]
2
If Mr. Kristof can't tell fake meat from real, he just doesn't have a very refined palate. I can tell instantly, usually from the amount of sodium in the fake stuff. And yes, I can tell TVP even when people try to hide it in chili or pasta sauce.
4
As someone who really likes a good burger / chilli / chicken strip, I sympathize with the environmental issues around meat production but I cannot change my diet to the awful tasting soy-vegi-stuff that currently passes for alternatives. If they can make the synth-meat taste and have the same texture as the real thing, then I'm game to switch even if its a bit pricey. I wish them luck.
Try eating beans.
Please try the faux chicken strips by Beyond Meat or the faux beef crumbles -put them in tacos or spaghetti sauce and you will be pleasantly surprised (I don't work for the company but eat these products myself)
I've been eating this "meat" for a while and Gardein brand is far and away the best!
1
I tried vegetarian stuff back in the 80s, but found it odd and boring. What did the trick? A daughter who cooks great vegetarian and vegan meals--if you like Kalua pork, try it made with jackfruit. Aside from that I rarely eat fake meat, and I don't miss the real stuff.
I've eaten any number of meat substitutes and find they are reasonably good. (My tastes are particularly well defined, I should note.) But right now they cost significantly more than meat and I wonder about what goes in to these highly processed foods. After all, you don't make soybeans taste like beef without a fair amount of chemistry.
45
What is the energy consumption from harvesting and processing plants into meatlike substances vs the energy consumption from grass finishing animals and butchering them?
2
Why does it matter? There is no way that everyone is going to be eating "grass finishing" animals. I would venture to guess it still comes out in favor of the fake meats, however.
It matters because energy consumption matters. There is no way everyone is going to eat fake meat either. And guessing is not science.
A few inconvenient truths: A dairy farm with 2,500 cows produces the same amount of waste as a city of 400,000 people. Animal agriculture in the USA produces 7 million pounds of excrement per minute and is responsible for 18% of all greenhouse gas emissions; more than all transportation combined. Interested in learning more... Cowspiracy now on Netflix. If we're serious about combating global warming we must either significantly reduce human population or meat from the human diet.
7
So what do you do with all the cows? Kill them? You have choice, whether they are used to produce milk or meat or not used at all, they still will produce waste. So the only choice is to eliminate them, right?
Just wondering what the environmental effects of the additional manufacturing of substitute meat products entails. Seem to think that added power costs, along with water usage (and the environmental footprint of the individual components) might not be such a great deal either! I don't eat much red meat, but when I do, I prefer the kind that grazed in a field, breathing air instead of factory air conditioning, and met a humane demise by the hand of someone who respected the natural food chain. This article reminds me of the awful message in the Charlton Heston movie, "Soylent Green".
4
But what about animal suffering and the impact factory farming has upon the environment and human health?
We eat our fellow creatures, and, given the chance, they eat us. It's the way of the world, but must we be so cruel about it? That in mind, Wife and I were vegetarians for 15 years. Wife was fine with it, but I became fatter each year. The solution was either to again start eating meat, or become vegans. Vegan cooking seemed beyond us. `Truth is, we were simply too lazy, so we reluctantly once again became meat eaters. It was much easier than we expected. But why not? It's just a thought process, and, after all, whose thoughts are they, anyway? Besides we had also discovered grass fed beef, et al, yet we still intensely dislike the inherited cruelty of it.
But we recently saw the documentary, "Conspiracy" via Amazon, and once again awakened to the reality that our lust for meat does more damage to nature than all of humankind's burning of fossil fuels. Since we'd love to leave our grandchildren a healthy planet, we finally vowed to overcome our laziness and become vegans.
That said, maybe a bit of fake meat now and then will ease the difficult transition to a truly responsible way of eating. Now, if we can only help elect Bernie Sander in 2016, we'll feel self righteous, indeed! ;o)
But we recently saw the documentary, "Conspiracy" via Amazon, and once again awakened to the reality that our lust for meat does more damage to nature than all of humankind's burning of fossil fuels. Since we'd love to leave our grandchildren a healthy planet, we finally vowed to overcome our laziness and become vegans.
That said, maybe a bit of fake meat now and then will ease the difficult transition to a truly responsible way of eating. Now, if we can only help elect Bernie Sander in 2016, we'll feel self righteous, indeed! ;o)
11
I'm a terrible editor, but it was spell check that changed "COWSPIRACY" TO Conspiracy"
Also, it seems most reader conveniently skip this telling bit:
"Brown, 44, is deeply concerned by climate change and spent eight years in a company making hydrogen fuel cells. But he read that livestock cause more greenhouse gases than the entire transportation industry, and he wondered if he shouldn’t focus more on food."
Also, it seems most reader conveniently skip this telling bit:
"Brown, 44, is deeply concerned by climate change and spent eight years in a company making hydrogen fuel cells. But he read that livestock cause more greenhouse gases than the entire transportation industry, and he wondered if he shouldn’t focus more on food."
Although I am an omnivore, I have lived with a vegan for many years. Gradually my meat intake has decreased to once or twice a month (unlike vegans however, I have no argument with dairy: eggs, milk and cheese are staples of my diet). I have suffered the early artificial meats and enjoyed the newly engineered fake meat burgers—how did they do that? The fact that died-in-the-wool vegans are always in pursuit of fake meat that mimics the blood and guts variety mystifies me.
I could be happily against the slaughter of animals for food as long as the products of animals were available and were humanely harvested. With vegans, though, it's all or nothing but oddly, they still hunger for fake meat, fake eggs, awful pretend cheese and other non-dairy equivalents.
I could be happily against the slaughter of animals for food as long as the products of animals were available and were humanely harvested. With vegans, though, it's all or nothing but oddly, they still hunger for fake meat, fake eggs, awful pretend cheese and other non-dairy equivalents.
12
Maybe the future of the human diet is micro-blended extruded soy paste with a long list of chemical stabilizers, colors and texture enhancers. But the science is not there to support this yet.
I love tofu, but I am not convinced of its safety to want to eat it every day. Industrially produced soy products do not look anything like real food. I will continue to take my chances with fresh vegetables, meat, poultry and fish.
I love tofu, but I am not convinced of its safety to want to eat it every day. Industrially produced soy products do not look anything like real food. I will continue to take my chances with fresh vegetables, meat, poultry and fish.
11
Tofu has some potential when cooked with enough spices or deep fried (but there goes the health aspect!). Or smothered in rich sauces.
But plain tofu, as is often served in health food restaurants, is just ghastly -- like eating a kitchen sponge. It has a revolting taste and texture.
But plain tofu, as is often served in health food restaurants, is just ghastly -- like eating a kitchen sponge. It has a revolting taste and texture.
1
I have a problem with tofu and other "fake" meats as I have a very sensitive sense of taste and notice at once when I have been given non-meat "meat" mainly because I have never eaten refined foods.
Before I eat fake meat, I'd rather have none at all.
Before I eat fake meat, I'd rather have none at all.
Nutrition is very complex, but if there is one rule I try to stick to, it's that the more processing there is the less healthy the food. To date, reductionism in nutrition has repeatedly failed.
52
It would be nice if the media enforced fact-based coverage of topics, instead of allowing people like Kristof continue to casually enforce false ideas like "meat may pave the way to heart attack". That aside, there is no evidence based on their track records that the food companies that would produce fake meat would use healthy ingredients. Likely they would go for the cheapest, most oxidized oils, the most harmful GMO soy (laden with bot estrogen and Round-up) and whatever else they can pull out of the recycle bin of industrial waste. Nobody has ever been able to (or likely will be able to) top Pollen's simple advice - eat real food, mostly plants.
32
MC: I have read Pollen's book and admired many parts of it, but I think he could do better. Something like "Eat real food based on plants" would be better as we wouldn't have to kill animals to live. As we have 90 years to be alive, why not live it ethically? Do you really need meat to live? The answer is no. I have been a vegetarian since 1975 and am strong and healthy.
I'm not sure you can take a stand on 'fact-based coverage' when you dump some non-fact based GMO information into the same paragraph.
Technically, Jack LaLanne beat Mr Pollan to the punch by quite a few decades: "If man made it, don't eat it!"
Besides the benefits of meat substitutes mentioned by Kristoff, there is the fact that real meat is riddled with veins, ligaments, cartilage, stray fur or feathers, fecal smears, and other grossosities.
I'll take plant-based "meat" over that, any day.
I'll take plant-based "meat" over that, any day.
19
@spacetimejunkie:
The organs and connective tissue are full of nutrition, more than is found in the muscle meat alone. Traditionally, people have preferentially eaten the organs, fat, and bone marrow, while cooking the connective tissue into soup. Eating just the muscle meat is a relatively new thing.
The organs and connective tissue are full of nutrition, more than is found in the muscle meat alone. Traditionally, people have preferentially eaten the organs, fat, and bone marrow, while cooking the connective tissue into soup. Eating just the muscle meat is a relatively new thing.
All of the recent cases of e coli contamination -- which would be fecal material -- were in vegetables and salad items.
Actually the ligaments and cartilage found in meat is healthy. The other stuff not so much. I get my meat from local ranchers that raise grass-fed beef.
1
I think fake meat will inevitably be highly processed with long lists of dubious chemical additives. The right path is simply less meat in our diets, more plants. The real problem is how the farming of good vegetables has declined.
118
Yes. I believe Americans would eat a lot more fruits and vegetables if they were of the same quality the Europeans have. Dry, woody or mealy peaches or woody, flavorless, overgrown strawberries or tomatoes do not appeal to anyone. If you can use the fruit as a softball, it is not worth eating. Garden raised carrots and snow peas fresh from the earth are sweeter and more flavorful than anything you buy in the grocery store. Give kids good - really good - fruits and vegetables and they will eat them gladly.
As a vegan since 1983, I have always found it so sad that people are so wed to their meat lust- including the writer, that cruelty to animals meant next to nothing to them. A young woman who I worked with in Cleveland City Hall in the 8O's said matter of factly after my telling of farm animal horror that she just had to have her meat. I was deeply saddened by this. People like me just took one look at the horrible treatment of cows, pigs, and chickens and said -forget it. We don't need to feast on cruelty. However, I applaud this effort and pray to God that it will result in the opening of the cruel cafos and that once again the animals which are still raised for food will be able to enjoy fresh air, sun light, and mingling with their families. How we could have done this to sentient living beings is beyond my scope of understanding.
54
100% correct (as a 5-year vegan myself). If this advance actually happens, and saves some animals from suffering, it would be excellent. Sadly, certain John Wayne "macho" types would never, ever give up real meat - because doing so would erode their (fragile) he-man self-image. (They'll swear to their last dying breath that it doesn't taste the same).
Eliminating meat from your diet -- or everyones diet -- does nothing to make animals lives better. In fact, cows and pigs and chickens only EXIST on this planet because people wanted to eat them. They had no other purpose. They were bred for this reason. Without being used for meat and eggs and leather and fur, such animals would be turned out to starve or worse. We are talking about BILLIONS of animals.
It would be far better to adopt humane methods of animal husbandry and food processing, whereby all such meat animals were treated compassionately. I suggest you read the work of animal behaviorist Temple Grandin on this issue.
It would be far better to adopt humane methods of animal husbandry and food processing, whereby all such meat animals were treated compassionately. I suggest you read the work of animal behaviorist Temple Grandin on this issue.
Note though that these animals won't be happily grazing, they'll be extinct. A few specimen herds will be in zoos and national parks. Otherwise, there will be no economic system to keep them around.
As for enjoying hanging out with their families, my guess is that you've never spent much time around bulls. Not so big on family values.
As for enjoying hanging out with their families, my guess is that you've never spent much time around bulls. Not so big on family values.
I wish people would stop reflexively connecting meat to heart attacks since we are now learning that properly produced animal fat can be part of a healthy diet. That said, fake meat would be a much better alternative to factory farmed meat if the price comes down.
10
For now, no thanks. I don't trust processed foods in general.
41
But you trust the products of the factory farming industry, which cares about nothing beyond its bottom line?
1
I applaud the fake meat revolution! I already keep frozen veggie burgers and sausage patties as an occasional alternative to meat. I'd say I'm up to 3 days a week having veggie products for dinner. They're relatively cheap, store well in the freezer, and are packed with protein. Easy fixxings as they say,
We have a huge obesity problem in this country, largely from fatty foods and corn-based processed foods that add little to our nutritional profile except a belly. If we can improve our farm lands, sustain earth, cut down on water consumption, and still produce a tasty high-protein facsimile product, why not?
It will likely take a generation or two to get folks to adjust. The millennials have already brought us vegan and vegetarian living. But what better way to maintain the tastes and mouth feel of foods that look and taste like the real thing at a fraction of the fat and calories?
As long as you're dieting, you might as well enjoy what you do get to eat. And "fake" meat products, or low fat healthier alternatives to real meat products like turkey and chicken hotdogs (seasoned so you really can't tell the difference) can help us shed some of our collective waistlines while not losing enjoyment of the foods we like to eat in summer, at ball games, etc.
We have a huge obesity problem in this country, largely from fatty foods and corn-based processed foods that add little to our nutritional profile except a belly. If we can improve our farm lands, sustain earth, cut down on water consumption, and still produce a tasty high-protein facsimile product, why not?
It will likely take a generation or two to get folks to adjust. The millennials have already brought us vegan and vegetarian living. But what better way to maintain the tastes and mouth feel of foods that look and taste like the real thing at a fraction of the fat and calories?
As long as you're dieting, you might as well enjoy what you do get to eat. And "fake" meat products, or low fat healthier alternatives to real meat products like turkey and chicken hotdogs (seasoned so you really can't tell the difference) can help us shed some of our collective waistlines while not losing enjoyment of the foods we like to eat in summer, at ball games, etc.
10
@Christine McMorrow:
We now have numerous randomized controlled trials, with human subjects, where people _lose weight_ when they eat more naturally fatty foods (including meat and dairy) compared to people eating standard or "low fat" dietary advice.
We now have numerous randomized controlled trials, with human subjects, where people _lose weight_ when they eat more naturally fatty foods (including meat and dairy) compared to people eating standard or "low fat" dietary advice.
Sadly, diet and vegan products do not lead in any way to slimmer waistlines or lower BMIs.
I know a number of fat vegetarians. When I questioned them about this, they said that things like candy, ice cream, French pastries, french fries, cookies, chips and soda were all vegetarian. I also know fat vegans, and all of those treats come in vegan form.
Meat is not fattening, per se. It depends on what type of meat and how much of a portion you eat. ANY FOOD can be fattening if you eat a huge quantity of it, out of proportion to your needs. ANY FOOD can be part of a healthy diet eaten in moderation.
The purpose of veggie meat substitutes was never low calories, and some are not very low in calories. The purpose was something meat-tasting that isn't made from an animal. Clearly vegetarians and vegans WANT something that is LIKE meat, but not meat -- they DO like the taste, or they would not try to imitate it.
I know a number of fat vegetarians. When I questioned them about this, they said that things like candy, ice cream, French pastries, french fries, cookies, chips and soda were all vegetarian. I also know fat vegans, and all of those treats come in vegan form.
Meat is not fattening, per se. It depends on what type of meat and how much of a portion you eat. ANY FOOD can be fattening if you eat a huge quantity of it, out of proportion to your needs. ANY FOOD can be part of a healthy diet eaten in moderation.
The purpose of veggie meat substitutes was never low calories, and some are not very low in calories. The purpose was something meat-tasting that isn't made from an animal. Clearly vegetarians and vegans WANT something that is LIKE meat, but not meat -- they DO like the taste, or they would not try to imitate it.
1
Some long held misconceptions here. You may want to read up on the more recent science. Eating fat does not make you fat. Eating starchy vegetables does not make you thin.
"Moreover, prices are still a bit higher than real meat."
The problem with this trend towards "faux" meat products is that they too require a lot of processing, which is part of the reason why prices are (and will always be) higher.
Why not simply eat the veggies, legumes, lentils, fava beans, quinoa, or any other plant-based product directly? What adds taste to any product are the vast range of spices. Combine spices in different proportions and you get an infinite range of options to make food tasty and appealing.
We do not have to rely on scientists to manufacture tastes for us when we can be our own scientists (or cooks, if you prefer an ancient outdated term) in our kitchens.
The problem with this trend towards "faux" meat products is that they too require a lot of processing, which is part of the reason why prices are (and will always be) higher.
Why not simply eat the veggies, legumes, lentils, fava beans, quinoa, or any other plant-based product directly? What adds taste to any product are the vast range of spices. Combine spices in different proportions and you get an infinite range of options to make food tasty and appealing.
We do not have to rely on scientists to manufacture tastes for us when we can be our own scientists (or cooks, if you prefer an ancient outdated term) in our kitchens.
33
There is nothing wrong with vegetables or legumes or grains like quinoa. The problem is that vegetarian/vegan culture wants to make those the sole things you can eat. Without meat, there is going to be very little variety in taste or texture. Lentil soup is delicious but having to eat lentil soup day after day is pure torture.
Many people do not like legumes or beans, and some people literally cannot digest them. Most Americans absolutely hate vegetables, especially children. I don't mean they just prefer other foods. I mean that they ABSOLUTELY HATE vegetables, loathe them and despise them. That is a very high barrier to cross.
Many people do not like legumes or beans, and some people literally cannot digest them. Most Americans absolutely hate vegetables, especially children. I don't mean they just prefer other foods. I mean that they ABSOLUTELY HATE vegetables, loathe them and despise them. That is a very high barrier to cross.
chickenlover, I'm with you on eating the veggies directly until you get to fava beans! For generations, my family had huge gardens, canning and later canning and freezing veggies and fruits and sun-drying some fruits. I saw fava beans in a magazine then in a farmers' market in the Atlanta area. I was curious but they were way pricey.
But "I had his liver with some fava beans and a nice Chianti" from "The Silence of the Lambs" wiped out the curiosity.
Fordhook limas, baby green limas, speckled butterbeans, butterpeas and all the other beans..........but no fava beans for me.
But "I had his liver with some fava beans and a nice Chianti" from "The Silence of the Lambs" wiped out the curiosity.
Fordhook limas, baby green limas, speckled butterbeans, butterpeas and all the other beans..........but no fava beans for me.
I am the only one of five siblings not allergic to mushrooms. One needs an Epi-pen. My daughter is allergic most nuts and a few seeds. My sister-in-law is allergic to legumes.
Not a single one of us is allergic to cow. I'll stick to the known proteins, thanks.
Not a single one of us is allergic to cow. I'll stick to the known proteins, thanks.
8
This is a necessary step to 3D printing of food, as recently done with a pizza, or so I read claimed. That is Star Trek replicator food. I've been through too many cafeterias for that ever to have appealed to me, but maybe. I'd try it.
Food is one of the great pleasures of life. Cooking well, with carefully chosen ingredients, is one of the best things we can do for ourselves. I include in that not just kitchen wonders, but fresh fish over an open fire while camping. I've encouraged my kids to learn to cook, and to enjoy cooking and eating.
Processed fake food half way to a replicator seems contra all that.
Food is one of the great pleasures of life. Cooking well, with carefully chosen ingredients, is one of the best things we can do for ourselves. I include in that not just kitchen wonders, but fresh fish over an open fire while camping. I've encouraged my kids to learn to cook, and to enjoy cooking and eating.
Processed fake food half way to a replicator seems contra all that.
15
Mmmm.....replicator food.
Until the fake meat revolution reaches its peak and yields fruit, there is a simple way to make vegetarian diets more enticing.
1. How about taking time for healthy shopping? There are lots of farmers´markets everywhere. Yesterday I visited one in Boston, on a square between Trinity Church and The Public Library. It was paradise on earth.
The apples I ate there reminded me of the ones I used to pick from the trees as a little girl. Savory-sweet and juicy. Simply delicious.
2. Mind you: my veggie burgers don´t taste like cardboard*, and I don´t even contain tofu. What I intend to say is we have to take some more time for creative cooking. The more we "practise and experiment" while using fresh ingredients, the better the outcome.
3. There are so many cooking trends which involve using all kinds of vegetables, beans, fruit, nuts, grain. And we can always rely on the wisdom and expertise of great chefs from all over the world.
4. Becoming a vegetarian is easier than most people think. After some time, you no longer succumb to the temptation of a tasty burger. If you add the health benefits to the list, you will never regret changing course.
5. Are you fond of animals, Mr. Kristof? Then try figuring out that the beautiful creatures portrayed in your column are the ones you are about to eat as you order a steak or a burger. It might do the trick.
Above all, we need to change our lifestyles for the sake of the planet.
* Sorry I have no space for the recipe...
1. How about taking time for healthy shopping? There are lots of farmers´markets everywhere. Yesterday I visited one in Boston, on a square between Trinity Church and The Public Library. It was paradise on earth.
The apples I ate there reminded me of the ones I used to pick from the trees as a little girl. Savory-sweet and juicy. Simply delicious.
2. Mind you: my veggie burgers don´t taste like cardboard*, and I don´t even contain tofu. What I intend to say is we have to take some more time for creative cooking. The more we "practise and experiment" while using fresh ingredients, the better the outcome.
3. There are so many cooking trends which involve using all kinds of vegetables, beans, fruit, nuts, grain. And we can always rely on the wisdom and expertise of great chefs from all over the world.
4. Becoming a vegetarian is easier than most people think. After some time, you no longer succumb to the temptation of a tasty burger. If you add the health benefits to the list, you will never regret changing course.
5. Are you fond of animals, Mr. Kristof? Then try figuring out that the beautiful creatures portrayed in your column are the ones you are about to eat as you order a steak or a burger. It might do the trick.
Above all, we need to change our lifestyles for the sake of the planet.
* Sorry I have no space for the recipe...
31
Ever price food at a farmer's market?
1. Farmer's markets cannot possibly serve the grocery needs of 320 million people. The only reason YOU can go to them is that you are relatively wealthy. They are expensive, selling premium or boutique fruits & veggies. They are often not located where poor or working class people live. Fruits & vegetables are perishable, and hard to store. Not everyone has a deluxe kitchen, a freezer or a working refrigerator.
2. A lot of farmer's markets are fake. That juicy apple might have well come from the ordinary food terminal in your city (where the supermarket gets its produce) and NOT from some individual farmer. They also mislabel conventional foods as organic, to get a higher price.
3. You are absolutely entitled to eat veggie burgers, and enjoy them. Most people who have tried them think they taste like wet cardboard or worse.
4. Great chefs cook with meat. Vegetables, fruits, grains, even tofu can all be delicious if they are cooked with meat, dairy and eggs. There are no true vegan cultures. Indian vegetarian cuisine is superb, but it REQUIRES dairy in the form of ghee and milk.
2. A lot of farmer's markets are fake. That juicy apple might have well come from the ordinary food terminal in your city (where the supermarket gets its produce) and NOT from some individual farmer. They also mislabel conventional foods as organic, to get a higher price.
3. You are absolutely entitled to eat veggie burgers, and enjoy them. Most people who have tried them think they taste like wet cardboard or worse.
4. Great chefs cook with meat. Vegetables, fruits, grains, even tofu can all be delicious if they are cooked with meat, dairy and eggs. There are no true vegan cultures. Indian vegetarian cuisine is superb, but it REQUIRES dairy in the form of ghee and milk.
1
Mr. Kristof usually dwells on accuracy, so I am sorry to see his false assertion that "meat may pave the way to a heart attack." It has been shown in recent years that that old idea was never justified and is just wrong; blood cholesterol does not come from dietary cholesterol. (For those who want references, see recent books by Nina Teicholz and, a little earlier, Gary Taubes.)
32
Vegans actually seem to have less heart disease. See for example the American Heart Association webpage.
1
It's interesting that you mention this fallacy that has been perpetuated regarding meat . In 2001 NYT had a 9 page article re:"fat / animal fats" and how the fallacy became some truth that everyone is unable to shake. The article (tons of references for further investigation) is "what if it's all a lie". It disputes mistaken beliefs that animal fats and proteins cause heart disease, obesity, diabetes etc. It also lends credence to the slandered Atkins diet & similar ones, with verifiable studies that it wasn't dangerous. An eye opener for me, as for 40yrs I have been basically eating in this manner...proteins, vegetables, eggs (once taboo), very little grains and carbs, no sugars/salts and no processed foods. No weight problems, no diabetes, no heart issues, no BP issues. It isn't animal fats/proteins that create havoc with insulin or cause obesity, it's all the carb/grain loading, sugars & processed foods. Now it is suggested that we embrace processed vegetable matter along with who knows what as a meat replacement. I'm all for the ethical treatment of animals and conservation of the planet, but I am not in favor of embracing a foodstuff loaded with sodium/sugars/grains/GMO's and ingredients I can't pronounce. Give me grass fed beef, free range chicken/pigs, other natural foods & garden grown veggies anyday. My 3 obese, diabetic, horomone imbalanced sisters are enough to scare me away from the USDA food pyramid. We're becoming lab rats once again like 25 yrs. ago.
1
@XY:
Would this be the same American Heart Association that told us all to eat a low fat, high carb diet, and to substitute margarine for butter? Why would we listen to anything they have to say?
Would this be the same American Heart Association that told us all to eat a low fat, high carb diet, and to substitute margarine for butter? Why would we listen to anything they have to say?
Our large brains require a tremendous amount of energy and we evolved these large brains through the consumption of energy-dense meat as well as plant-based food. Can these meat substitutes provide the same nutritional density as the real thing? The problem isn't the resources that meat animals require; it is the presence of too many humans for the planet to support. If we reduce the population of humans, then there is no problem with the meat we evolved to consume.
9
"Our large brains require a tremendous amount of energy and we evolved these large brains through the consumption of energy-dense meat as well as plant-based food."
But lions eat mainly energy dense meat. They are still where they were a billion years ago.
The truth is we evolved because we figured out the art and science of cooking. Before we did we used to eat raw leaves all day and may be fruit. Now we have the time to think and that has allowed our brains to develop.
Cooking has also proven beneficial to the brain as it is a form of meditation.
But lions eat mainly energy dense meat. They are still where they were a billion years ago.
The truth is we evolved because we figured out the art and science of cooking. Before we did we used to eat raw leaves all day and may be fruit. Now we have the time to think and that has allowed our brains to develop.
Cooking has also proven beneficial to the brain as it is a form of meditation.
5
We may have benefited from fat-dense meat (that's what "energy-dense" means in this case) before we invented agriculture, when we were starving most of the time, trying to survive on berries and insects. But today, with a grocery store around the corner and with most of us obese enough to survive several droughts, we are in no danger of starvation or extinction. Even the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics, the largest organization of food and nutrition professionals in the U.S., says that "appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases." ( See http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19562864 )
1
@H.G.: Starvation was more of problem for early agricultural peoples than it was for hunter-gatherers. Hunter-gatherers could move and adapt to new food sources, early farmers could be wiped out by one failed harvest.
Would that be the same Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that is sponsored by Pepsi, McDonalds, Kelloggs, and Nestle? Why would we listen to anything that they have to say?
Would that be the same Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that is sponsored by Pepsi, McDonalds, Kelloggs, and Nestle? Why would we listen to anything that they have to say?
I read this article through and still do not have a clue as to what is in these meat substitutes. Is it chemical/mechanical manipulation or culinary wizardry? In any event, I prefer my vegetables to be identifiable in the final product.
8
Let me help you out here. As a vegetarian of 25 years I can say the faux meat makers have come a long way in the last 5 years. Through my own example and cooking I've converted a number of boyfriends and parents to a more vegetarian lifestyle.
So:
A list of ingredients for one company's faux beef crumble (very tasty in a tomato sauce I might add);
water, soy protein concentrate*, expeller pressed canola oil*, organic cane sugar, sea salt, yeast extract, onion powder, garlic powder, caramel color, natural flavors (from plant sources), spices.
Here are the ingredients for one of the same company's veggie burgers (awesome with all the burger fixings):
water, cooked brown rice, roasted vegetables (onions, corn, red and green bell peppers), vegetables (carrot, peas), gluten-free rolled oats, expeller pressed canola oil, soy protein concentrate, yeast extract, methylcellulose, organic cane sugar, dehydrated garlic, garlic powder, onion powder, sea salt, spices, natural flavors (from plant sources), paprika, citric acid.
And their faux chicken (I make a mushroom-wine sauce and put it all on rice, noodles or potatoes... yummy!):
water, soy protein isolate, expeller pressed canola oil, methylcellulose, tapioca starch, yeast extract, organic cane sugar, organic vinegar, potato starch, salt, quinoa, natural flavors (from plant sources, contain celery), color added, mushroom dry matter, acacia gum.
Gardein's products taste good, and the ingredients are not frightening at all.
So:
A list of ingredients for one company's faux beef crumble (very tasty in a tomato sauce I might add);
water, soy protein concentrate*, expeller pressed canola oil*, organic cane sugar, sea salt, yeast extract, onion powder, garlic powder, caramel color, natural flavors (from plant sources), spices.
Here are the ingredients for one of the same company's veggie burgers (awesome with all the burger fixings):
water, cooked brown rice, roasted vegetables (onions, corn, red and green bell peppers), vegetables (carrot, peas), gluten-free rolled oats, expeller pressed canola oil, soy protein concentrate, yeast extract, methylcellulose, organic cane sugar, dehydrated garlic, garlic powder, onion powder, sea salt, spices, natural flavors (from plant sources), paprika, citric acid.
And their faux chicken (I make a mushroom-wine sauce and put it all on rice, noodles or potatoes... yummy!):
water, soy protein isolate, expeller pressed canola oil, methylcellulose, tapioca starch, yeast extract, organic cane sugar, organic vinegar, potato starch, salt, quinoa, natural flavors (from plant sources, contain celery), color added, mushroom dry matter, acacia gum.
Gardein's products taste good, and the ingredients are not frightening at all.
Actually the ingredients are horrifying to me. For me they are not edible as they include things I can't eat due to allergies/sensitivities and also that says natural flavors added doesn't much to me, color added = ?, sugar, soy and salt are off my list of allowable foods. Canola oil (rapeseed) is a definite no .
Good quality meats and other naturally fatty foods have never been demonstrated to "pave the way to a heart attack." Most people improve their health when they eat less carbohydrate and more naturally fatty foods.
The meat substitutes may succeed in replicating the taste and texture of meat, but it is unlikely that they will replicate the _nutrition_ found in meat.
The meat substitutes may succeed in replicating the taste and texture of meat, but it is unlikely that they will replicate the _nutrition_ found in meat.
9
Any idea of the environmental cost to producing this fake meat or does it magically materialize out of nowhere and nothing. And as people tend to naturalness, here you have a product that is the antithesis to natural. You are miserably selective in your facts!
5
I don't have an exact number for you but it's nowhere near the environmental devastation caused by meat production. Ever lived downstream from a factory farm? Added bonus is they don't have to pump the ingredients full of antibiotics to prevent inevitable disease outbreak (as is standard process in factory farms).
MOST OR US WERE BROUGHT UP EATING MEAT . . .
...so we have become adjusted to consuming it ... and we buy it pre -packaged and never see how the animals were tortured. And don't realize how much water and land is used to produce a hamburger or a pork chop or bacon.
We are in this country beginning to realize that we (people) share a great deal in common with "animals" ... feelings and intelligence and perceptions. Kids can relate to animals (e.g., cats and dogs) ... well, until we get older and we are taught this strict dichotomy. One has to be taught or conditioned.
There is a positive correlation between the degree of civilization in a culture and the manner in the persons treat animals.
I see a potential evolution to more vegetarians and vegans ... but it will take a long time.
...so we have become adjusted to consuming it ... and we buy it pre -packaged and never see how the animals were tortured. And don't realize how much water and land is used to produce a hamburger or a pork chop or bacon.
We are in this country beginning to realize that we (people) share a great deal in common with "animals" ... feelings and intelligence and perceptions. Kids can relate to animals (e.g., cats and dogs) ... well, until we get older and we are taught this strict dichotomy. One has to be taught or conditioned.
There is a positive correlation between the degree of civilization in a culture and the manner in the persons treat animals.
I see a potential evolution to more vegetarians and vegans ... but it will take a long time.
9
@David Chowes:
Evolutionary adaptation to a new diet takes a long time, especially in a long-lived vertebrate such as ourselves. We've had access to dairy foods in some parts of the world for ~10,000 years, but we still don't have 100% lactose tolerance.
Evolutionary adaptation to a new diet takes a long time, especially in a long-lived vertebrate such as ourselves. We've had access to dairy foods in some parts of the world for ~10,000 years, but we still don't have 100% lactose tolerance.
But 100 years ago, most people lived on farms and were surrounded by farm animals, and slaughtered their own meat. They still ate meat.
Apparently they had a higher gross out resistance than modern lefty liberals do.
My grandma used to tell me about how she would wring the necks of chickens, so her mother could singe off the feathers and then gut the chicken, in preparation for cooking it. In no way did this prevent my grandma from eating meat.
All this theory says is that modern day city dwellers in the US and Europe are very wimpy. But frankly, if you get hungry enough, you would learn to slaughter your own meat animals. It's been done for a million years.
Apparently they had a higher gross out resistance than modern lefty liberals do.
My grandma used to tell me about how she would wring the necks of chickens, so her mother could singe off the feathers and then gut the chicken, in preparation for cooking it. In no way did this prevent my grandma from eating meat.
All this theory says is that modern day city dwellers in the US and Europe are very wimpy. But frankly, if you get hungry enough, you would learn to slaughter your own meat animals. It's been done for a million years.
1
"Concerned Citizen," My late father grew up on a modest farm and he had as one of his pals a chicken whom he played with and even gave him a name.
One day he didn't see his "pal" and at dinner he mentioned it ... and I guess all readers know the rest of this sad story . . .
One day he didn't see his "pal" and at dinner he mentioned it ... and I guess all readers know the rest of this sad story . . .
1
I have been a vegetarian for 45 years and tried the Beyond Meat "chicken strips" which are expensive and nearly inedible.
5
I never feel more like a caveman then when I talk about food. Indeed, it's the blood you mentioned emanating from the beef that gives it it's flavor. If ever there was a paradigm in need of shifting, it is the food paradigm. We are not foraging in primeval forests, we don't hunt anymore (except for sport) and we don't need 3/4 of the calories we consume. This revolution you describe will have to be generational. We're still to close to the caveman to feel comfortable outside the cave.
2
@Rick Gage:
If by "caveman" you mean Paleolithic hunter-gatherer, then we still have a mostly Paleolithic genome which expects mostly Paleolithic inputs of food, activity, sleep, etc, to function with optimal health.
If by "caveman" you mean Paleolithic hunter-gatherer, then we still have a mostly Paleolithic genome which expects mostly Paleolithic inputs of food, activity, sleep, etc, to function with optimal health.
1
The average number of calories most people eat is 2000 to 2500 -- so you are suggesting that (say) a small statured woman eat only 500 calories a day? Because you just said "3/4ths are unnecessary". That speaks of anorexia, not vegetarianism.
3
You write: "Sure, meat may pave the way to a heart attack. " but that was debunked in the NYTimes years ago - it shows that it is impossible to dislodge false ideas from human culture.
There is no scientific evidence whatsoever that anything in meat causes a heart attack. (In fact, the Inuit eat a diet entirely made of meat and don't get heart disease.)
In 1977, a Senate committee chaired by McGovern, brushed aside objections by medical researchers, and declared - with no scientific basis at all - that "eating fat is unhealthy". Since then, it has been impossible to dislodge that idea from our culture. Meanwhile, in the medical Journal Circulation, in 1960, a high quality study was published linking heart disease to insulin resistance due to excessive carbohydrates. But carbohydrates are the core of our unhealthy packaged food industry, so easier to demonize the fat rarely found in boxes of lifeless processed food.
None of this has anything to do with climate change, but the likelihood of any effective action there has always been zero, given the clout of economic interests.
There is no scientific evidence whatsoever that anything in meat causes a heart attack. (In fact, the Inuit eat a diet entirely made of meat and don't get heart disease.)
In 1977, a Senate committee chaired by McGovern, brushed aside objections by medical researchers, and declared - with no scientific basis at all - that "eating fat is unhealthy". Since then, it has been impossible to dislodge that idea from our culture. Meanwhile, in the medical Journal Circulation, in 1960, a high quality study was published linking heart disease to insulin resistance due to excessive carbohydrates. But carbohydrates are the core of our unhealthy packaged food industry, so easier to demonize the fat rarely found in boxes of lifeless processed food.
None of this has anything to do with climate change, but the likelihood of any effective action there has always been zero, given the clout of economic interests.
17
A recent article in the NYT said that the reason Inuits are so healthy is that their bodies have adapted genetically to process their high fat, protein rich diet, something which we non-Inuits lack.
Good info, Some-dude. All the talk of fake meats made from plant sources seems to forget to tell us what the actual nutritional content is. I suspect there are a lot more heart-harming, insulin-resistance-causing starchy carbohydrates in Tofu and Soy and so on than in meat. That's why eating some meat (real meat), in reasonable portions as part of a balanced diet, is physiologically better for humans than a diet of all starches and carbs.
Nothing should be eaten to excess, but it is indeed a shame that when big business grabs hold of a false idea (e.g. meat bad, starch good), it takes so many decades to get us past it.
Nothing should be eaten to excess, but it is indeed a shame that when big business grabs hold of a false idea (e.g. meat bad, starch good), it takes so many decades to get us past it.
2
Thank you, Nicholas, for a thoughtful column. I believe, at the heart of the problem of meat consumption, the cost environmentally, and the terrible humane costs to the animals, particularly those who suffer under factory farming, is human overpopulation and the desire for foods that carry status. What research has shown is that as societies become more prosperous, people desire to change from consuming a primarily plant-based diet to consuming meat. As world population increases, and resources are - appropriately - applied to help developing countries become more affluent, there is often a greater desire for meat consumption. We are producing far more humans than the planet's resources can support and we are unwilling to openly discuss this in a manner that would inspire thoughtful population policy. Even Pope Francis, with all his progressive views on many issues facing the world, he has never addressed the issue of overpopulation.
1
Well FINALLY! An intelligent, compassionate human being who is discussing this complicated topic with some insight. How seldom do we hear about the real problem which is human overpopulation which is overtaking the world with our need for food, land and money. I commend Nicholas for writing this educational article and Newhill for speaking clearly about what the real issues are. Thank you for bringing the hidden and unspeakable suffering of millions of animals to the attention of the public as we begin to explore this valuable and necessary alternative to slaughter.
Kill two birds with one stone......Soylent Green
We can all see the advantages of such a revolution, but after sugar substitutes, I suspect there will be a ton of cynicism out there until claims have been proven by actual taste.
There’s a large number of people out there who would accept less distinctive taste in their steaks and burgers, but that number will have a limit. For a revolution to truly allow us to dramatically thin our herds of cattle, our drifts of pigs, our trips of goats or even our rangales of deer, the taste illusion will need to be perfect.
Until then, it’s a flameless, intense heat that yields the best steak.
There’s a large number of people out there who would accept less distinctive taste in their steaks and burgers, but that number will have a limit. For a revolution to truly allow us to dramatically thin our herds of cattle, our drifts of pigs, our trips of goats or even our rangales of deer, the taste illusion will need to be perfect.
Until then, it’s a flameless, intense heat that yields the best steak.
As far as I'm aware, American sugar consumption doesn't rely on an environmentally devastating and entirely unsustainable method of production.
Mr.Luettgen:
"the taste illusion will need to be perfect."
As a dear friend of mine once said, in amazement and dismay at such thinking: "When the cost of something is so tragic, you have to be willing to walk away from it a short distance."
"the taste illusion will need to be perfect."
As a dear friend of mine once said, in amazement and dismay at such thinking: "When the cost of something is so tragic, you have to be willing to walk away from it a short distance."
Actually, people have shown great flexibility in changing their diets, Richard. When we were children, sugar substitutes were virtually non-existent. Nobody (outside of a few ethnic cultures) ate yogurt. Diet foods did not exist. Low calorie or sugar free foods -- did not exist. Gluten free foods did not exist. Organic foods were not sold in any supermarket.
The marketplace is very eager to give people what they want to eat. If they wanted fake tofu "chik'n" strips, then that's what the supermarkets will have in the freezer section or on sale.
BTW: I like my steak cooked out of doors, on a wood fired grill, over a low flame.
The marketplace is very eager to give people what they want to eat. If they wanted fake tofu "chik'n" strips, then that's what the supermarkets will have in the freezer section or on sale.
BTW: I like my steak cooked out of doors, on a wood fired grill, over a low flame.
1
When these products have been shown to have real food value, then there is no point in calling them 'fake meat.' They are foods which are demonstrably better for health than meat.
They should be called [healthy] alternatives to meat; if the benefits are real, they are in no way "fake."
It should be made clear that the incorporation of healthy alternatives into our diet does not require total renunciation of meat. The actual amount of meat protein that the average person needs is only several ounces per week, not the pound eaten per day. Amounts over that baseline requirement tend to be more harmful than helpful to health.
And since meat production is a major driver of climate change, the most significant action we can take to have an impact on climate change is to reduce our consumption of meat. And before heads explode, let me reiterate the word REDUCE.
And we have healthy alternatives that satisfy accustomed tastes.
They should be called [healthy] alternatives to meat; if the benefits are real, they are in no way "fake."
It should be made clear that the incorporation of healthy alternatives into our diet does not require total renunciation of meat. The actual amount of meat protein that the average person needs is only several ounces per week, not the pound eaten per day. Amounts over that baseline requirement tend to be more harmful than helpful to health.
And since meat production is a major driver of climate change, the most significant action we can take to have an impact on climate change is to reduce our consumption of meat. And before heads explode, let me reiterate the word REDUCE.
And we have healthy alternatives that satisfy accustomed tastes.
2
@Doug Keller:
If the fake meat products are made from soy, then they are a decent replication of the essential amino acids found in meat. But they are missing the essential fatty acids, vitamins, and minerals also found in meat (and missing the forms of these nutrients that we are adapted to absorb). So no, they do not have the same nutritional value, and they have never been demonstrated to to be healthier than quality animal foods.
If the fake meat products are made from soy, then they are a decent replication of the essential amino acids found in meat. But they are missing the essential fatty acids, vitamins, and minerals also found in meat (and missing the forms of these nutrients that we are adapted to absorb). So no, they do not have the same nutritional value, and they have never been demonstrated to to be healthier than quality animal foods.
Considering the problem we have with food labeling in general, and the fact that the majority of my allergies and food intolerances are plant-based, I am not hopeful of a smooth transition process. It would be nice to have oversight adequate to ensuring that we know what products are safe for each of us to eat.
1
Another approach to this is what is called "cultured meat" or in vitro meat production. That is to say, actual meat made from animal cells in a test tube. Progress has been made with this, but it still does not taste as good as conventional meat.
Cultured meat is potentially much cheaper than conventional meat, and it will probably be better the people eating it, with fewer unhealthy components. It will eliminate the cruelty of raising and slaughtering animals. One animal cell is sufficient to make as much meat as thousands of animals.
I believe this concept was first described by Winston Churchill in 1932, in his book "Thoughts and Adventures."
Another benefit of this was described by Arthur C. Clarke in his short story, "Food of the Gods." You can look it up.
Cultured meat is potentially much cheaper than conventional meat, and it will probably be better the people eating it, with fewer unhealthy components. It will eliminate the cruelty of raising and slaughtering animals. One animal cell is sufficient to make as much meat as thousands of animals.
I believe this concept was first described by Winston Churchill in 1932, in his book "Thoughts and Adventures."
Another benefit of this was described by Arthur C. Clarke in his short story, "Food of the Gods." You can look it up.
1
Why no mention of lab-grown meat? This is real meat, grown from the stem cells of a cow. The first burger made from lab meat was in the headlines just a few months ago.
Does this fake meat come from sustainable produce? Or does it come from GMO's laced with fertilizers? I prefer organic burgers from organically fed beef with no antibiotics. I'll pay extra for that
1
Organic burgers from organically fed beef with no antibiotic and, and of course, humanely slaughtered.
Vegans and vegetarians tend to be against GMOs, so no, it does not come from GMOs laced with fertilizers. But thanks for another attempt to clutch at straws to justify the horrific practice of eating animals.
"Humanely slaughtered" is an oxymoron.
Whatever it takes to stop the brutality inherent at factory farms.
10
Before you assume that the only solution is vegan eating, read the pioneering work of animal behaviorist Temple Grandin.
It is possible to eat humanely produced and harvested meat.
It is possible to eat humanely produced and harvested meat.
1
As if I could possibly love this man any more! Nicholas, you are my hero. The more I learn about factory farming and/or some traditional farming methods and its effects on sentient, intelligent animals (pigs are often smarter than dogs and very sociable) the more horrified I am that this is legal and protected. With so many options available, giving up eating animals is easier than ever. Having witnessed a "humane" slaughter, I quickly realized no animal willingly goes to his death, so this euphemism simply helps us avoid responsibility for the effects of our food choices. Thank you Nick and I look forward to hearing you speak in NJ!
6
Do you have a pet cat? Most vegans and vegetarians do.
Cats are obligate carnivores. If there was no meat produced, all pet cats would starve to death. They cannot live on vegetarian "substitutes". They need to eat actual meat as the majority of their diet.
Cats are obligate carnivores. If there was no meat produced, all pet cats would starve to death. They cannot live on vegetarian "substitutes". They need to eat actual meat as the majority of their diet.
1
WHERE'S THE BEEF! Those who consume Kosher foods are always looking for meat substitutes for a number of reasons. Animals slaughtered according to the laws of Sh'kheetah are very costly to raise and to prepare for market. As a result, kosher meats often cost at least double what regular meat costs. Another interested group would be those who consume Hallal meats for many of the same reasons as those who follow Kashruth. Vegetarian convert wannabes would be a very large market. People who say they agree with the principles of vegetarians but could not imagine life without, say, hamburgers. The most easily integrated alternative protein sources could be for items with spicy sauces, such as vegetarian chili. An enjoyable version made of tofu has been around for years. Nobody would mistake it for meat-based chili. But it's close enough to appeal to veggie wannabes. There are some recipes such as falafel which resemble fried meatballs vaguely, are already standard ethnic food. So are eggplant dishes, such as a smoked dish called baba ganoujh. It's rich and complex in its own right, though pretty unsightly. Once I brought some to a party, where everyone came up and complimented me on the flavor. The combination of smoked eggplant with sesame oil and sauce is rich and complex. Also, not to be confused with meat. But truly satisfying on its own terms. Asian food stores carry hard pressed spiced and smoked tofu, a nice ingredient. Being a veggie can be lots of fun!
1
I'm not sure we know everything about what in meat is good and bad for you. Besides, do we really know in the long term whether synthetic meat is totally good for you because it lacks the ingredients in real meat that we know are harmful, at least when consumed in excess?
There is a world of literature, including articles from the NYT showing that processed food of any kind is not as healthy as the unprocessed version. Why shouldn't that observation apply to fake meat?
Go ahead Mr. Kristof, enjoy your occasional steak or hamburger. Just cook the burger through lest you contract Salmonella or E. coli poisoning. I'd worry more about that.
There is a world of literature, including articles from the NYT showing that processed food of any kind is not as healthy as the unprocessed version. Why shouldn't that observation apply to fake meat?
Go ahead Mr. Kristof, enjoy your occasional steak or hamburger. Just cook the burger through lest you contract Salmonella or E. coli poisoning. I'd worry more about that.
3
We know meat is bad for the animals who die so that they can end up on your plate.
Gross! We can't artificially create essential amino acids. The last time tryptophan was artificially created, people died. Humans evolved on meat and we cannot mutate into a genetically superior species on a vegan or vegetarian diet, it is biochemicall impossible. The answer is to go organic and to farm more cows, not less.
4
Dear Kem Minnick:
There is no need to "artificially create essential amino acids." All of the essential amino acids are contained in plant foods and all we need to do is eat them, or in this case, products made from them. We can get all the protein we need from plants.
I have no idea what artificially created tryptophan refers to. Some supplement scandal in which people were poisoned? It has nothing to do with eating, in moderation, lightly processed vegan meats made from plants, if they taste good to you. There is no need to eat them, but they are a fun and healthful option.
And finally, no one is trying to mutate into a different species on a vegan diet. Just trying to do the best we can, from the point of view of health and ethics, with the species that we are.
There is no need to "artificially create essential amino acids." All of the essential amino acids are contained in plant foods and all we need to do is eat them, or in this case, products made from them. We can get all the protein we need from plants.
I have no idea what artificially created tryptophan refers to. Some supplement scandal in which people were poisoned? It has nothing to do with eating, in moderation, lightly processed vegan meats made from plants, if they taste good to you. There is no need to eat them, but they are a fun and healthful option.
And finally, no one is trying to mutate into a different species on a vegan diet. Just trying to do the best we can, from the point of view of health and ethics, with the species that we are.
1
Also get rid of all stoves. The last time we artificially cooked our food a lot of smoke was released in the air.
@drveggie:
Complete human adaptation to a vegan diet would have to involve one or more mutations, and would take hundreds or thousands of generations of evolution.
The proteins in plants are poorly absorbed and digested compared to the proteins in animals, not to mention all the other essential fatty acids, vitamins, and minerals that are found only in animal foods or are more easily obtained through animal foods.
Complete human adaptation to a vegan diet would have to involve one or more mutations, and would take hundreds or thousands of generations of evolution.
The proteins in plants are poorly absorbed and digested compared to the proteins in animals, not to mention all the other essential fatty acids, vitamins, and minerals that are found only in animal foods or are more easily obtained through animal foods.
1
Offer these services, fine. Improve them in quality and price, fine. Krystal burgers don't take much beating in my opinion. When you can compete with McDonalds, I'll happily take notice.
Enforce them, as some vegans, some vegan attitudes, and some FDA bureaucrats might like to do? 'Jesus declared all foods clean.' Enforce them? We've got unsolved murders. Enforce them? We've got backlogged courts and crowded jails. Enforcing stuff like this wastes resources.
We need a transfer of power from bureaucrats to we the people they work for. Jesus is libertarian. "Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?"
Enforce them, as some vegans, some vegan attitudes, and some FDA bureaucrats might like to do? 'Jesus declared all foods clean.' Enforce them? We've got unsolved murders. Enforce them? We've got backlogged courts and crowded jails. Enforcing stuff like this wastes resources.
We need a transfer of power from bureaucrats to we the people they work for. Jesus is libertarian. "Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?"
Wrong, He was a socialist. Ayn Rand was/is Satan.
If you talk to hardcore vegans and vegetarians, they don't just seek to eat no meat themselves, or to gently show the rest of us how many delicious vegetarian and vegan options there are.
No, they tell you quite bluntly that their goal is to BAN all meat eating, and make it illegal. "Meat is murder". That is unmistakable.
No, they tell you quite bluntly that their goal is to BAN all meat eating, and make it illegal. "Meat is murder". That is unmistakable.
1
Another possible way of creating meat would be to grow muscle tissue by itself, without the animal. This would eliminate the cruelty of our modern animal factories, but would also drastically reduce the population of livestock, as we have already reduced the population of horses.
3
Actually fake-meat can cause major disruption in the meat industry. Millions will lose jobs, mostly in emerging economies where the meat industry isn't as mechanized as here in the US. In the early years, till the technology is successfully replicated by businesses in poorer economies or manufacturing shifts to emerging markets to handle increasing demand, the richer countries could be net exporters (read: more jobs in the US). Eventually, it is also possible that fake-meat will be tastier besides being far cheaper than the real thing. Nice. It would be interesting to know roughly what type of ingredients are being used in the production.
3
Production in poorer countries will take place in a heartbeat. There is nothing to stop US companies from outsourcing manufacture of this product.
I'd much rather work in a fake meat production plant than risk life and limb every day working in a slaughterhouse.
There's no such thing as healthy unprocessed food. If I'm a leopard, kill a gazelle and consume its tasty innards, then I'm also consuming numerous parasites that infect the guts of all herbivores. By contrast to other animals, modern Homo processes all food stuffs before eating them: brushing; wiping; washing; soaking; grinding; threshing; cooking.
Our species also breeds livestock and cultivars, altering them quickly to match the preferences, tastes, fashions and fads of time and place. Most that the typical Westerner consumes today is a livestock breed or plant cultivar that didn't exist even a millennium ago. Many breeds and cultivars have been bred in the last century. Few soils have all the necessary minerals in the right amounts for every crop. For example, selenium is often too low or too high. Boron is often deficient. Few Westerners would get enough iodine or calcium were not many foods fortified with compounds of these two crucial elements. According to the IOM, less than 10% of Americans get enough potassium in their daily diet, especially potassium citrate found in plants rather than potassium chloride found in animal flesh.
Fowls, fresh water and marine animals may seem to be an exception. Nevertheless, all these animals also are infested with parasites and need careful cleaning/cooking, ie processing, before human consumption. Furthermore, many of our inland and deep sea waterways are polluted with heavy metals such as mercury that build up in the food chain.
Our species also breeds livestock and cultivars, altering them quickly to match the preferences, tastes, fashions and fads of time and place. Most that the typical Westerner consumes today is a livestock breed or plant cultivar that didn't exist even a millennium ago. Many breeds and cultivars have been bred in the last century. Few soils have all the necessary minerals in the right amounts for every crop. For example, selenium is often too low or too high. Boron is often deficient. Few Westerners would get enough iodine or calcium were not many foods fortified with compounds of these two crucial elements. According to the IOM, less than 10% of Americans get enough potassium in their daily diet, especially potassium citrate found in plants rather than potassium chloride found in animal flesh.
Fowls, fresh water and marine animals may seem to be an exception. Nevertheless, all these animals also are infested with parasites and need careful cleaning/cooking, ie processing, before human consumption. Furthermore, many of our inland and deep sea waterways are polluted with heavy metals such as mercury that build up in the food chain.
4
I should have added: cutting; skinning; filleting; boning; peeling; coring; salting; drying.
I became vegan because I love animals. Not for health reasons.
However, I find that after 30 years of being vegan I'm much healthier and look younger than most my age.
I don't miss meat or animal products at all. I occasionally eat fake meat, but I usually I eat regular foods, like beans and lentils. Meat doesn't taste good to me anymore. I know this because on a couple of occasions I accidentally bit into some real meat and I didn't like the taste. When I see meat, it doesn't look like food to me.
Over the past 30 years the "fake" foods have gotten really good. There are fake cheeses, fake ice creams, fake milks, and fake meats which taste great.
Finally, I think, for 99% of the people, it is much easier to eat a healthy vegan diet, than a healthy meat based diet. Most meat eaters find it difficult to balance their diet. The meat and potatoes tend to crowd out everything else.
However, I find that after 30 years of being vegan I'm much healthier and look younger than most my age.
I don't miss meat or animal products at all. I occasionally eat fake meat, but I usually I eat regular foods, like beans and lentils. Meat doesn't taste good to me anymore. I know this because on a couple of occasions I accidentally bit into some real meat and I didn't like the taste. When I see meat, it doesn't look like food to me.
Over the past 30 years the "fake" foods have gotten really good. There are fake cheeses, fake ice creams, fake milks, and fake meats which taste great.
Finally, I think, for 99% of the people, it is much easier to eat a healthy vegan diet, than a healthy meat based diet. Most meat eaters find it difficult to balance their diet. The meat and potatoes tend to crowd out everything else.
13
I beg to differ. After 30 years being vegan, your taste buds have changed. I am not saying a plant centric diet can not be healthy and tasty, but some meat, cheese and eggs can be incorporated very easily while still being healthy and sustainable. Excluding all animal products is dogma, not diet.
9
Dogma? Many of India's almost 1.3 billion are vegans not through dogma but because they are too poor to afford anything else. Relatively rich Americans, and other Westerners, of course believe it is their God-given right to indulge themselves in all sorts of ways at the expense of the rest of humanity, other species and the planet. Again not dogma - just plain old-fashioned greed.
5
"Over the past 30 years the "fake" foods have gotten really good. There are fake cheeses, fake ice creams, fake milks, and fake meats which taste great."
Yes, and in America there is fake free-enterprise, fake history, and most importantly, fake democracy. All of these seem to, according to your people, "taste great" as well.
Yes, and in America there is fake free-enterprise, fake history, and most importantly, fake democracy. All of these seem to, according to your people, "taste great" as well.
1
I feel sure that one of the causes of the obesity epidemic is the consumption of heavily processed foods instead of real foods, along with chemical based agriculture instead of organic farming. This engineered, fake, "food" will only make the situation worse.
5
A fresh tomato and avocado sandwich on good bread is delicious. Why even pretend to have meat? Occasionally, I want real meat, chicken or fish but mostly have a vegetarian diet. Veggie burgers are a poor substitute for the real thing.
6
Couldn't agree more strongly. Imitation, whether false burgers or false sugar, feeds desire for the real thing, which in most cases is harmless only if eaten moderately. Children should be educated about where food comes from, its seasonality, its smells and tastes and other pleasures. That alone would reduce the amount of obesity and coronary disease.
1
I don't think these companies are trying to replace high-end meat products, rather to switch out the filling people eat in their sandwiches and burritos at lunch... Which I imagine makes up the bulk of meat consumption in the US.
7
Some here have produced crystal balls and foretell - as consequence (or even goal) of this industrious, entrepreneurial push for meat alternatives - no less than the mass extinction of our beloved livestock(!). So, if I'm understanding this line of thinking -- "if we stop killing them for food, they'll vanish from the earth." Hmm. I'm not so sure about that.
The state of fake meat may have a ways to go before it cooks real, tastes real, and has more desirable health specs than the real thing. But it's come a long way from where it was even five years ago. I for one am optimistic. Is it unhealthy because it's a processed food? I don't know. But when the only functioning alternative is an all-powerful, insatiable, seemingly incurable cancer upon the planet (Big Beef), I say here's to imitation meat getting better, and growing in the marketplace, and offering compelling alternatives for the regular carnivore. And maybe someday being better than the "real" thing.
The state of fake meat may have a ways to go before it cooks real, tastes real, and has more desirable health specs than the real thing. But it's come a long way from where it was even five years ago. I for one am optimistic. Is it unhealthy because it's a processed food? I don't know. But when the only functioning alternative is an all-powerful, insatiable, seemingly incurable cancer upon the planet (Big Beef), I say here's to imitation meat getting better, and growing in the marketplace, and offering compelling alternatives for the regular carnivore. And maybe someday being better than the "real" thing.
2
Thank you so much for this hopeful column! Earlier this year, when the "zombie meat" news broke out in China, I reflected about how thankful I am that I no longer eat meat. People are so greedy for money nowadays, if we choose to eat meat, we are bound to be eating meat from an unknown source, whether it be an animal that was tortured beyond imagination or injected with hormones, or in the case of China, meat that is decades old...
I am very thankful that this issue is gaining more attention. For example, Leonardo DiCaprio was recently involved with "Cowspiracy"-- a super eye-opening documentary. It would be my dream to see faux meat replacing real meat as a norm, during my lifetime. =)
I am very thankful that this issue is gaining more attention. For example, Leonardo DiCaprio was recently involved with "Cowspiracy"-- a super eye-opening documentary. It would be my dream to see faux meat replacing real meat as a norm, during my lifetime. =)
4
"It will be a while before we’re fooled by a fake sirloin steak, but scientists think they’ll eventually get there."
It's irrelevant what scientists think. It boils down to what the consumer thinks, and to learn that, you ask consumers, not scientists.
The funniest thing about the whole vegi-as-meat thing is that almost all the products use meat in their title: "not chicken strips", "meatless balls", etc. So far, none of the products seem to be able to stand on their own, with the possible exception of vegi-burgers. I've been in strictly vegetarian restaurants, especially Asian restaurants, where all the dishes were described with their meat "equivalent:" e.g. General Tso's Chicken, Shrimp and Lobster Sauce, etc. all guaranteed to be vegetarian.
Reminds me of orange juice which, instead of being sold as orange juice, is sold as "not from concentrate."
Here's a question I have wanted to ask vegetarians who believe eating meat is a waste of water, energy, morality, or whatever: is it OK to eat roadkill and, if not, why not?
It's irrelevant what scientists think. It boils down to what the consumer thinks, and to learn that, you ask consumers, not scientists.
The funniest thing about the whole vegi-as-meat thing is that almost all the products use meat in their title: "not chicken strips", "meatless balls", etc. So far, none of the products seem to be able to stand on their own, with the possible exception of vegi-burgers. I've been in strictly vegetarian restaurants, especially Asian restaurants, where all the dishes were described with their meat "equivalent:" e.g. General Tso's Chicken, Shrimp and Lobster Sauce, etc. all guaranteed to be vegetarian.
Reminds me of orange juice which, instead of being sold as orange juice, is sold as "not from concentrate."
Here's a question I have wanted to ask vegetarians who believe eating meat is a waste of water, energy, morality, or whatever: is it OK to eat roadkill and, if not, why not?
2
Vegan here: no ethical qualms about eating road kill, though that's just my personal opinion. It's already dead, and eating it doesn't buy into a system that bred, raised, and killed it before you found it on the side of the road. "Freegans" abide by this philosophy and, out of a desire to reduce waste, will eat animal products destined for the trash bin. I personally don't think eating road kill is "OK" though, because I have safety concerns about eating random rotting carcasses. Also, I'm happy eating vegan food and have no desire to eat meat of any kind - in my mind I don't really think of it as food anymore.
Satisfy your curiosity?
Satisfy your curiosity?
Excellent idea: a vegetarian alternative to torturing and killing animals.
BUT—and here's the kicker—is it likely that the giant animal torturing and killing industry will capitulate to the rational vegetarian industry? If you believe that rationality will win the day, I have a bridge I want to sell you.
BUT—and here's the kicker—is it likely that the giant animal torturing and killing industry will capitulate to the rational vegetarian industry? If you believe that rationality will win the day, I have a bridge I want to sell you.
1
Just a couple of thoughts:
the main credo for healthy eating is to avoid processed, refined foods. Pseudo meat--what could be more processed than that? We've learned that margarine, (fake butter) is not such a good idea. Wonder what we'll learn about fake meat, a few decades down the road?
Second: there's a paradox that what is useful/desirable/convenient to humans survives. Duck hunters support duck preserves. Buffaloes are less convenient to raise than cattle, so they vanish. If fake meat replaces real meat, then do cows, chickens, pigs, goats, sheep become extinct? I think the world is richer with them here. I vote for a more humane way to treat animals, and yes, sometimes eat them. Nature in balance, not chemical vats.
the main credo for healthy eating is to avoid processed, refined foods. Pseudo meat--what could be more processed than that? We've learned that margarine, (fake butter) is not such a good idea. Wonder what we'll learn about fake meat, a few decades down the road?
Second: there's a paradox that what is useful/desirable/convenient to humans survives. Duck hunters support duck preserves. Buffaloes are less convenient to raise than cattle, so they vanish. If fake meat replaces real meat, then do cows, chickens, pigs, goats, sheep become extinct? I think the world is richer with them here. I vote for a more humane way to treat animals, and yes, sometimes eat them. Nature in balance, not chemical vats.
25
Today's cows ARE chemical vats.
It's an unusual animal that goes extinct because people stop torturing, killing, and eating it.
The cows, pigs, and chickens that are raised and slaughtered in this country are the product of selective breeding by humans. They have no natural habitat, no role in a natural ecosystem. I look forward to a future in which they, along with their lifelong suffering, are extinct.
I'm a big fan of "fake" meat. It tastes great and removes the harmful cholesterol and fat while retaining the protein.
The only problem is cost. Government subsidies would help spur mass adoption. There's no reason everyone shouldn't be eating it.
The only problem is cost. Government subsidies would help spur mass adoption. There's no reason everyone shouldn't be eating it.
8
@c.:
Neither cholesterol nor fat in the diet are harmful. (With the exception of artificial trans fats. Which are not found in meat, anyways.)
Neither cholesterol nor fat in the diet are harmful. (With the exception of artificial trans fats. Which are not found in meat, anyways.)
This overlooks the growing body of evidence that highly processed foods are more responsible for health issues than meats. (Meat does not necessarily equal heart attack.)
I've personally tried going vegetarian and it does not go over well, though I wish it did. I become lethargic more easily, my body temp drops and it wreaks havoc on my gut to not get a good portion of high quality animal fats and proteins on at least an occasional basis, and I make a concerted effort to get all macros and sufficient and complete proteins - still doesn't do it for me.
I do believe there is an environmental argument for going vegetarian, but I don't think highly processed substitutes are the answer. Philosophically I think this gets straight to a big cultural problem - we are always trying to mask a taste or fool ourselves into taking the easy way out. When you cook to highlight the strengths of a food you don't need to make it a fake version of something else, you can enjoy it for the unique ingredient it is. I enjoy meat, but the taste isn't what keeps me coming back - it's the fact that as a fuel I can't find anything better, especially after a very physically taxing day. I've made plenty of tasty vegan dishes but they don't satiate the same way.
Personally, I am looking forward to possibly incorporating crickets and other high protein insects into my diet once it becomes more widely available (and I think it will due to necessity).
I've personally tried going vegetarian and it does not go over well, though I wish it did. I become lethargic more easily, my body temp drops and it wreaks havoc on my gut to not get a good portion of high quality animal fats and proteins on at least an occasional basis, and I make a concerted effort to get all macros and sufficient and complete proteins - still doesn't do it for me.
I do believe there is an environmental argument for going vegetarian, but I don't think highly processed substitutes are the answer. Philosophically I think this gets straight to a big cultural problem - we are always trying to mask a taste or fool ourselves into taking the easy way out. When you cook to highlight the strengths of a food you don't need to make it a fake version of something else, you can enjoy it for the unique ingredient it is. I enjoy meat, but the taste isn't what keeps me coming back - it's the fact that as a fuel I can't find anything better, especially after a very physically taxing day. I've made plenty of tasty vegan dishes but they don't satiate the same way.
Personally, I am looking forward to possibly incorporating crickets and other high protein insects into my diet once it becomes more widely available (and I think it will due to necessity).
8
Different strokes. I've been a vegetarian for over thirty years, I'm now well past retirement and I take zero medications and I have zero chronic health problems.
But then, I have a wife who is obsessive about making sure that we get the right vitamins and eat stuff that guaranteed to contain the stuff we need. I don't think I could do that myself.
And it all tastes great too! Took a little getting used to at first ... but not now. Now cooking meat smells disgusting.
But then, I have a wife who is obsessive about making sure that we get the right vitamins and eat stuff that guaranteed to contain the stuff we need. I don't think I could do that myself.
And it all tastes great too! Took a little getting used to at first ... but not now. Now cooking meat smells disgusting.
Ummm....crickets.
Yes, I am sure that will catch on any day now.
Yes, I am sure that will catch on any day now.
Americans have gotten used to eating "fatted calves", young animals finished on corn. Production of such beef is cruel to the animal and bad for the environment, and if eaten in quantity, the meat is bad for one's health.
The meat of a grass-fed cow is much healthier. A cow is a good way to turn grasses that humans can't eat into nutricious food. It might be an environmental toss-up between the impacts of the crops needed for the ingredients in Beast Burgers and leaving the land in good grass and raising cattle on it. Better yet, bison evolved to live in the hot summers and brutal winters of the Great Plains. Maybe Americans should get used to the "virtuous" flavor of buffalo burgers.
The meat of a grass-fed cow is much healthier. A cow is a good way to turn grasses that humans can't eat into nutricious food. It might be an environmental toss-up between the impacts of the crops needed for the ingredients in Beast Burgers and leaving the land in good grass and raising cattle on it. Better yet, bison evolved to live in the hot summers and brutal winters of the Great Plains. Maybe Americans should get used to the "virtuous" flavor of buffalo burgers.
10
Alleluia. I've tried Beyond Meat and it's delicious. Now I can enjoy meat taste and texture without being a party to animal suffering, worker desensitization and environmental destruction.
24
Mark Caponigro writes: "Whatever it takes, people should be dissuaded from eating chickens and their eggs."
My free range chickens would agree about not eating chicken. Not so sure they would agree about not eating eggs. Most hens choose to brood (sit on the eggs until the hatch) only about once a year. If I didn't collect the eggs at other times, they would start to rot and smell to high heavens.
Chickens raised in an open environment can be very happy creatures. Some are as friendly as cats. Many will run up and rub against a person's legs to be picked up and petted. In fact, all of our animals: cows, goats, chickens, rabbits, ducks, and geese can exhibit behaviors normally associated with in-door pets. If people were more aware of how adorable and friendly these animals can be, there might well be more support for vegetarianism.
If not for me, I figure, my animals would never have had a chance to live a decent life. Further, my fields, which are not suited to crops, would simply grow grasses which would eventually rot creating CO2 with no benefit to our food supply. In the end, I cull my flocks for meat using the most humane slaughter method possible. Perhaps my justification is insufficient.
On the other hand, I do know this. Mother nature is red in tooth and claw. The cruelty and destruction caused once a predator gets inside the fence is appalling. The predators will often kill many more animals than they eat.
My free range chickens would agree about not eating chicken. Not so sure they would agree about not eating eggs. Most hens choose to brood (sit on the eggs until the hatch) only about once a year. If I didn't collect the eggs at other times, they would start to rot and smell to high heavens.
Chickens raised in an open environment can be very happy creatures. Some are as friendly as cats. Many will run up and rub against a person's legs to be picked up and petted. In fact, all of our animals: cows, goats, chickens, rabbits, ducks, and geese can exhibit behaviors normally associated with in-door pets. If people were more aware of how adorable and friendly these animals can be, there might well be more support for vegetarianism.
If not for me, I figure, my animals would never have had a chance to live a decent life. Further, my fields, which are not suited to crops, would simply grow grasses which would eventually rot creating CO2 with no benefit to our food supply. In the end, I cull my flocks for meat using the most humane slaughter method possible. Perhaps my justification is insufficient.
On the other hand, I do know this. Mother nature is red in tooth and claw. The cruelty and destruction caused once a predator gets inside the fence is appalling. The predators will often kill many more animals than they eat.
242
I once worked in the home of a woman who had chickens in the back yard. One of them decided that I was the best human ever, followed me into the house, and would never leave my lap. All she wanted was to be stroked and naturally I could not resist. Every day at exactly 2pm she would leave my lap to fly into a basket atop an armoire to lay her egg. Chickens are sentient creatures and I never ate one again.
3
I can't comment on most of this because I don't raise animals to eat and I don't eat animals.
... However ...
I had a pigeon once that was every bit as affectionate as David describes. She would jump in the middle of my morning paper, squat down a little bit, spread her wings half way and DEMAND to be petted. She wouldn't leave me alone to read my paper until she got her morning loves every day. (And there was never food involved. She ate in her cage, never on the kitchen table.)
You wouldn't think a bird would do that ... but that one did.
... However ...
I had a pigeon once that was every bit as affectionate as David describes. She would jump in the middle of my morning paper, squat down a little bit, spread her wings half way and DEMAND to be petted. She wouldn't leave me alone to read my paper until she got her morning loves every day. (And there was never food involved. She ate in her cage, never on the kitchen table.)
You wouldn't think a bird would do that ... but that one did.
2
Grasses don't rot. They decompose and add nutrients back to the soil and are habitat for many creatures. And your fields might very well revert to forest, depending on where you live. But putting that aside, I don't see how you can have these "adorable" animals rub up against your legs and then slaughter them and eat them five minutes later. You make the case for vegetarianism and then slip in the fact that you actually kill these cute little chickens. That's mind-boggling to me.
1
My take is that if want to enjoy a burger made without any brutalization of farm animals, we should regulate our farm processes to avoid brutalization of individual farm animals rather than allow what is effectively an offshoot of the chemical industry to eliminate domestic species wholesale. Saving each individual cow from being eaten, a natural disposition for any animal's body including human ones, by eliminating all domestic cows would leave us with a greatly impoverished world. And that is the end run for what is being proposed; a world where humans sit eating the output of a huge industrial system which vacuums up the greatly simplified remains of the natural world, and serve only to convert this nutrient into more human protein.
99
"if want to enjoy a burger made without any brutalization of farm animals, we should regulate our farm processes to avoid brutalization of individual farm animals..."
You're forgetting the long transportation processes and the absolute slaughterhouse horrors.
You're forgetting the long transportation processes and the absolute slaughterhouse horrors.
1
If you think there is anything "natural" about what happens to animals before they end up wrapped in plastic at your local grocery store, you clearly have spent little to no time informing yourself about current factory farming practices. What do you think you are eating when you eat animal products, if not "the output of a huge industrial system"? Try reading "Eating Animals" by Jonathan Safran Foer, or watching "Vegucated." (The same goes for the NYT editor who has "picked" this ill-informed comment as something clever or interesting.)
It is such a small sacrifice to forgo meat,chicken, fish for a few years in order to save biodiversity, conserve water, prevent torture, and stop climate change. Many have given their actual lives in war for dubious goals. Why anyone would care about perfectly nutritious food not being perfectly delicious before deciding to do the right thing for future generations, is bizarre. People need to get over their personal petty wants and preferences.
13
Nicholas Kristof In the so called western developed nations there is no nutritional need for animal protein to live a long and healthy life. Non human animals have the same central nervous system as humans ,thus experience pain and agony identical to humans. Most never think of these accurate facts, we as a culture have decided that the taste in our mouths is more important than the horrific, usually short life, often painful life of non human animals. The future does not bode well, developing nations are adopting the western meat oriented diet. When factory/industrial agriculture is discussed it almost always deals with pollution and the effect it has on human populations, not the excruciating suffering of non human animals. Just one example hundreds of millions of baby roosters are put to death upon hatching by being chopped up alive, or slowly suffocated in containers etc, and so much more goes on every day, day after day. We have always admired your ethical writings and ask if you extend your compassionate feelings to those who are innocent and cannot defend themselves. Under the present conditions, can we honestly refer to ourselves as civilized?
27
@Morgan:
Humans have evolved as omnivores since before we were even human. A vegan diet is evolutionarily inappropriate for our species, is unlikely to produce health, and is likely to have numerous unforeseen health consequences.
BTW, quality animal foods are much more than just protein.
Humans have evolved as omnivores since before we were even human. A vegan diet is evolutionarily inappropriate for our species, is unlikely to produce health, and is likely to have numerous unforeseen health consequences.
BTW, quality animal foods are much more than just protein.
3
Pooch, You are completely wrong ie animal protein, the many millions who live long and healthy lives, and all things being equal a superior long and healthy life. Yes we did eventually evolve into omnivores, but is that the best we can do to our fellow non human animals, other primates are both omnivore and herbivore, the choice is ours, a humane caring regard for the suffering of others or continued suffering without end. The destruction of the planet is well recognized world wide in a meat based diet , it cannot be sustained. As a reference to moral guidelines on this subject, suggest you look to Albert Schweitzer, Da Vinci,Tolstoy, Einstein, Ghandi and many others. We can do better, WAKE UP
1
I used to eat hamburgers almost every day when I was in my twenties. Then I gradually cut down, influenced by friends and relatives (including my parents) who became vegetarians and vegans. I noticed that when I did not eat beef for a couple of months and then tried it, it tasted great but I would get sick. It seemed as if I'd lost my ability to digest beef (and then poultry and other animal products except dairy because I love to have a cup of cow's milk or yogurt every day). At this point, if I cook even the cheapest kind of veggie burgers (frozen, from the supermarket) in an interesting enough way, they taste fine to me, as I've long ago forgotten what real beef tastes like. So I am fine with the products currently on the market.
20
While this sounds great on the surface —it's hard to argue with eating plants instead of animals— let's delve a little deeper.
Like the Tesla, what is the carbon content of all the processing necessary for faux meat? The carbon content of the Tesla is so high it almost negates the oil-saving virtues.
How much water is necessary to produce faux meat? I suspect it might be more than the 450 gallons you mentioned previously for a 1/4 lb. hamburger.
What other rare earths or special things are needed for this process that aren't needed when a cow makes protein out of vegetation? Is this like the lithium needed for the Tesla batteries? What are we going to do with all that lithium which isn't currently recycled much?
A good start, a good idea, but much more to flush out before it will be endorse-able.
Like the Tesla, what is the carbon content of all the processing necessary for faux meat? The carbon content of the Tesla is so high it almost negates the oil-saving virtues.
How much water is necessary to produce faux meat? I suspect it might be more than the 450 gallons you mentioned previously for a 1/4 lb. hamburger.
What other rare earths or special things are needed for this process that aren't needed when a cow makes protein out of vegetation? Is this like the lithium needed for the Tesla batteries? What are we going to do with all that lithium which isn't currently recycled much?
A good start, a good idea, but much more to flush out before it will be endorse-able.
15
While producing fake meat may require more water to produce than growing plant protein alone, I would beg to differ that it guzzles more water than producing animal protein. Usually meat substitutes are made with a mixture of grains and legumes with a binder such as eggs or tapioca powder. In the case of Beyond Meat products, which Kristof mentioned, they add grains, spices, veggies, legumes, stabilizers (usually made from corn), vitamins and salts (most of which can be readily extracted from ocean water and limestone). They also mark that their ingredients, such as palm oil, as sustainably sourced.
As Kristof mentioned, if one were to make the full argument for a plant-based diet for the sake of one's health and the environment, the rest of the argument would include avoiding processed food. That way you don't need to worry about the energy and resources used to process the food before you eat it. Palates can adapt, and that craving for a medium-rare burger does go away, and you really do learn to enjoy the goodness of foods without all the other stuff in them.
As Kristof mentioned, if one were to make the full argument for a plant-based diet for the sake of one's health and the environment, the rest of the argument would include avoiding processed food. That way you don't need to worry about the energy and resources used to process the food before you eat it. Palates can adapt, and that craving for a medium-rare burger does go away, and you really do learn to enjoy the goodness of foods without all the other stuff in them.
2
@RobertL39 Aptos, CA
I agree with your comments.
One day-dream about Tesla is that most of the charging comes from solar. Doesn't solve the Lithium problem, but still an interesting possibility.
Regarding meat, I have read articles that say meat in moderation is good for us. After all, just look at the fact we have canine teeth.
I agree with your comments.
One day-dream about Tesla is that most of the charging comes from solar. Doesn't solve the Lithium problem, but still an interesting possibility.
Regarding meat, I have read articles that say meat in moderation is good for us. After all, just look at the fact we have canine teeth.
And then there's the animal suffering and worker exploitation and desensitization ...
1
As a vegetarian for 4+ decades, the real conundrum I find in pushing for a universal meat-free diet is that as a species, the best thing that ever happened to cows is that we decided we like to eat them. There are more cows on the planet now than ever before in history. And given the dismal fate of the countless species that humans can't find a use for, I would worry about what would happen to cows, pigs, chickens, fish, etc, if everyone were to stop eating meat. If the switch to "fake" meat is not motivated by a real respect for the sanctity of non-human life, it's only yet another excuse to slaughter yet another species into extinction.
63
These particular species exist only because we created them. Wild species they are not. There's no way everyone in the world will stop eating meat at the same time, so as demands gradually drops fewer animals would be produced for meat consumption. The fear of losing one human-created version of chicken, cows, pig and turkey is misplaced, IMO.
2
I have a hard time believing a vegetarian wrote this as most know what the short lives of cattle (dairy herds worst ) are about. Ask yourself if you would choose to perpetuate your line for a similar fate
2
By that logic, slavery is the best thing that ever happened to slaves!
Would life be worth living if you were stuck in a tiny cage for most of it, where you couldn't even turn around, and died at a young age without ever seeing daylight, like the modern factory-farmed sow? Or if you were repeatedly raped and then forcibly separated from your babies so that your milk could be harvested, like the modern factory-farmed cow? Or if you spent your entire life in a warehouse, so crowded with people that many died from being trampled upon, and were left to decay on the floor, and if you had been bred to grow such a heavy chest that your legs couldn't carry you any more, like the modern factory-farmed chicken? Wouldn't you rather have your species go extinct than doom all its members to a life of pain? Moreover, as ugh said, we are only talking about a handful of species that have been bred by humans into a highly unnatural state, based on our desires for their body parts and secretions. It's disingenuous and self-serving to argue that there is anything whatsoever that is good about factory farming.
Would life be worth living if you were stuck in a tiny cage for most of it, where you couldn't even turn around, and died at a young age without ever seeing daylight, like the modern factory-farmed sow? Or if you were repeatedly raped and then forcibly separated from your babies so that your milk could be harvested, like the modern factory-farmed cow? Or if you spent your entire life in a warehouse, so crowded with people that many died from being trampled upon, and were left to decay on the floor, and if you had been bred to grow such a heavy chest that your legs couldn't carry you any more, like the modern factory-farmed chicken? Wouldn't you rather have your species go extinct than doom all its members to a life of pain? Moreover, as ugh said, we are only talking about a handful of species that have been bred by humans into a highly unnatural state, based on our desires for their body parts and secretions. It's disingenuous and self-serving to argue that there is anything whatsoever that is good about factory farming.
1
Faux chicken strips is just faux. Fake is fake. Period. It can never, ever come anywhere close to the real thing. Your taste buds and thereby the gustatory brain will not be fooled so easily. Taste is an acquired sense. An infant is not born with a taste for meat and blood. His brain is conditioned to taste as he grows up. So if any revolution is to occur, it has to start at infancy. In civilizations where meat is not consumed the adults don't crave for meat.
If one wants to be really healthy, one can substitute a beef pattie by a vegetable pattie. Difficult to recondition a wired brain but not impossible ( witness the burgeoning numbers of vegans ). Then enjoy something REAL!!
If one wants to be really healthy, one can substitute a beef pattie by a vegetable pattie. Difficult to recondition a wired brain but not impossible ( witness the burgeoning numbers of vegans ). Then enjoy something REAL!!
6
You're 100% incorrect. Taste is a) olfactory and b) psychological. Advertisers alone, let alone food scientists, are able to fool your taste buds. All they have to do is write strawberry on the side of a yogurt container and put some red food coloring in it, and you will happily guzzle it noting its strawberry flavor. This has been tested in blinded studies. Infants, being omnivorous primates in waiting, are born with a taste for meat, they just have to develop the necessary faculties for eating it. There are no civilizations in which meat is not consumed in some proportion, as no other food is able to meet its energy-per-ounce nutritional output.
11
JA
People in developed countries eat so much meat that it is causing health problems. We don't have to become vegetarians. We just need to eat less meat and fish. Replacing a beef burger with a Beast Burger at lunch is step in that direction.
People in developed countries eat so much meat that it is causing health problems. We don't have to become vegetarians. We just need to eat less meat and fish. Replacing a beef burger with a Beast Burger at lunch is step in that direction.
7
" Fake is fake. Period. It can never, ever come anywhere close to the real thing."
And not only that, but man will never fly either.
And not only that, but man will never fly either.
If it really tastes the same, then it will have some of the same health problems too. Fat tastes good. Replace it with fake fat, and it may be like margarine for butter, not quite as good and even worse for us.
Perhaps we can do this, but I doubt it will be a miracle solution. It will more likely be new problems.
Perhaps we can do this, but I doubt it will be a miracle solution. It will more likely be new problems.
29
I love animals, and as a result I've tried (unsuccessfully) to become a vegetarian on 4 different occasions.
But as you noted, there is nothing like the taste of a juicy hamburger, which has been my downfall each time.
I tried some of the "beyond meat" products in my last failed attempt, and suffice it to say that the "beyond meat" tag is strictly aspirational at this point.
But I hope they keep trying, maintaining livestock is an environmental catastrophe in the making.
But as you noted, there is nothing like the taste of a juicy hamburger, which has been my downfall each time.
I tried some of the "beyond meat" products in my last failed attempt, and suffice it to say that the "beyond meat" tag is strictly aspirational at this point.
But I hope they keep trying, maintaining livestock is an environmental catastrophe in the making.
4
There are two problems with fake meat. First -- despite Mr. Kristof's glowing compliments -- it tastes awful. Secondly, we all now know that one of the worst things in our diets is highly-processed foods, and fake meats are some of the most highly-processed foods of all.
As other have said above, just eat real food and more fruits and veggies than meat. It's not rocket science (which is practically what's involved in engineered food.)
As other have said above, just eat real food and more fruits and veggies than meat. It's not rocket science (which is practically what's involved in engineered food.)
173
While I agree that most "fake meats" are highly processed, you can do a pretty darn good imitation of meat with tofu and tempeh. Tofu, because it absorbs other flavors so well, and tempeh, because it has a texture that approximates that of meat. Plus you can bake, fry and marinate tofu so it's got a little more tooth to it. Seitan is actually my meat substitute go-to, and you can make it yourself. It really is all about the condiments anyway. No one eats a boiled piece of meat (rarely), and even more rarely do they eat meat unseasoned. Whole Foods has a pretty good mock chicken salad.
As said in a previous comment, the effect of what we put in our bodies is determined SOLELY by its chemical and physical characteristics. Two bites at the same temperature, each a zillion atoms, each atom (or inter-atomic bond) of one bite identical to the corresponding atom (or inter-atomic bond) in the other bite, will be identical to the body, regardless that one bite was made by cutting an apple & the other bite was assembled from individual atoms in a super-collider. This is the nonsensical sugar-argument again: that because white sugar is "processed", it is more harmful to eat those sugar-molecules (atoms of carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen) than it would be to ingest the SAME CONFIGURATION OF ATOMS as honey or nectar. This is superstition. "Processing" is not a magical toxin. When you pull carrots out of the ground & wash them you are removing soil & leaving a coating of water-mist. You are NOT injecting an "additive" named "processing". What is the chemical formula for "processing"? How much does "processing" weigh per cubic centimeter? It may be true that, say, cooking some foods makes them less beneficial (degrades vitamins, softens fibrous textures). But this is because cooking changes the foods' CHEMISTRY, and NOT because cooking injects an evil spirit known as "processing". If the same agglomeration of atoms as something produced by cooking could be picked off a vine, the two would have identical value as food, regardless that one is less "processed" than the other.
Taste is in the mouth of the taster.
Your 2nd point is valid, yet each person must weigh the pros and cons for themselves.
Your 2nd point is valid, yet each person must weigh the pros and cons for themselves.
Is actual meat wholesome? Is there any way at all to be sure except to grow your own food?
1
The purist approach being taken here is fine for the vegans, but omits the effective and obvious technique of combining vege-meat and animal-meat for better flavor. It doesn't take much meat to add good flavor to a chili that mostly uses TVP, for example. The end result is less meat consumption - healthier for us and for the planet.
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Is fake mean the same as processed vegetables? Is fake meat wholesome?
7
It is totally processed; try to make a hamburger out of spinach at home. This is more analogous to a pharmaceutical operation than food. And, yes, it is wholesome
2
Again, "processing" is a villain. When did this all start? If I engage in data processing, is the result less healthy than raw unprocessed data? Does the conviction that "processing" is bad explain your reluctance to do the rational "processing" of thought that is required to see that "processing" is neither bad nor good? (It's some particular thing actually being ingested that is bad or good, regardless of whether it acquired its form via nature or artifice.) Doesn't the objection to "processing" really boil down to one's take on food that comes from entities built atop high concentrations of capital? There are wonderful reasons to de-aggregate capital and diversify the ownership and control of the means of production (and put it in the hands of the consumers whose servant those means of production should be), but the fact that capitalists have too much centralization may make food too expensive. It does not, however, change the fact that food's value depends SOLELY on the current physical and chemical arrangement of its atoms, NOT on whether the HISTORY of those arrangements includes things like assembly-lines and metal cans and 10,000-gallon pressure-cookers.
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I believe this all started when people began realizing they felt much better avoiding processed foods. For some, our bodies take better to whole foods cooked the old fashioned way. Eliminating the aisles of the grocery store fixed many health problems for me personally. Your analogy to data is a stretch. Processing in and of itself may not be bad, but when you put a proceed product into an organism that is not optimized for said product you may have trouble.
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At $14.00 a pound it has to be better than beef. That's the fallacy of these products. And the problem is not raw material cost but the process. Most plants are 90% water; that means a lot of chemistry for a low yield.
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As always, a thoughtful, provocative piece. When the price and taste of fake steak are acceptable, the whole field could experience a tipping point. However, we should be mindful of the collateral consequences, not all of which are positive. (1) The first to lose market share will be small, organic, humane, grass-finishing beef ranchers and dairy farmers whose products are healthiest, and also have the lowest climate impact, but are most costly. These heroes are trying to do everything "right" and are often hanging on by their fingernails. (2) Given that there is no market for "lap cows" or "guard cows," and that the economics of livestock (including dairy) only work--often barely--when the final stage is beef, if bogus beef takes over the market, cows will pass into oblivion. We could, of course, choose for non-economic reasons to breed cows to survive in the wild--Iberian longhorns or even aurochs. However, the life expectancy of today's Jerseys, Guernseys, and Angus would be measured in hours if humans did not have an economic interest in caring for them. All this is explored in the book, COWED: The Hidden Impact of 93 Million Cows on America's Health, Economy, Politics, Culture and Environment.
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Beef raised in confined pens has a much lower impact on the environment than cattle that are pasture fed. They are full grown within nine months, and it takes two years for pasture raised cattle to be ready for slaughter. More time to produce methane and use lots of resources. The best choice is to reject beef produced in a factory farm or in an organic pasture. Also reject factory produced meat substitutes. Just eat real food.
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Thank you for finding a synonym ("real") for "unprocessed". My refutation is the same. If you eat a given bite of food of zillions of atoms in a given chemical arrangement and at a given temperature, the past history of those atoms before they got into that configuration is irrelevant and will have NO effect on the bite's value as food. It won't matter whether those atoms got that way because they are "real" or because something extremely high-tech arranged them that way. What matters is what we actually eat. Until the debate can be focused on the actual SCIENCE of what is good for us, as opposed to superstitious notions that it's not what we eat but, rather, whether it was taken from nature as-is, or is human-synthesized, moral progress is impossible.
@Jerry
CAFO cows are ready for slaughter at between 14 and 16 months. Cow and calf ranchers sell their animals to CAFOs at between 6 and 9 months of age. Ranchers who raise grass-fed animals keep them on pasture about two years so they bear more responsibility for keeping pasture and animals in good condition, have to harvest or buy hay, etc.
Lots of people around me who have a few acres feed a calf or two on grass for their own use. It's healthier meat.
CAFO cows are ready for slaughter at between 14 and 16 months. Cow and calf ranchers sell their animals to CAFOs at between 6 and 9 months of age. Ranchers who raise grass-fed animals keep them on pasture about two years so they bear more responsibility for keeping pasture and animals in good condition, have to harvest or buy hay, etc.
Lots of people around me who have a few acres feed a calf or two on grass for their own use. It's healthier meat.
1
Nicholas
Were you raised on a beef or dairy farm in Oregon ?
Did you attend University of Oregon ?
What is your email address ?
Thanks
Stephen
Were you raised on a beef or dairy farm in Oregon ?
Did you attend University of Oregon ?
What is your email address ?
Thanks
Stephen
I don't know about the other questions, but I'm pretty sure Nick Kristof went to Yale.
Thank you, Nicholas Kristof, for another upbeat piece on the need for us all to start shifting our eating habits! Have you tried Gardein's "Crispy Tenders" or "Crabless Cakes"? In my opinion those are the best of the meat substitutes, for now, and the Tenders are in most supermarket freezers.
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Like you, Mr. Kristof, I enjoy red meat. However, I stick to grass fed and no antibiotics. Also, I indulge, maybe, 3-4 times a month. The rest of the time I enjoy the Asian diet that is so popular with my Chinese wife.
Off subject, I wish that you would share your adventures in China by writing a book about them.
Regards, Shiweiyi Maike.
Off subject, I wish that you would share your adventures in China by writing a book about them.
Regards, Shiweiyi Maike.
3
I think it is time for animal, and brutality, free choices in the supermarket. But I am concerned about the limiting of pasture animal foods that might increase the hunter harvest of our wild deer, hogs, elk, sheep and other wild animals, with extremely stressed populations as it is. Reducing beef and pork would be all the incentive hunters need to demand hunting in state parks year round, baiting fields, which they do anyway and generally declaring another brutal industry of wildlife harvesting.
3
Cheryl Ann Hurt: the logic of your comment is faulty. If the movement described in this article brings about any "limiting of pasture animal foods," it will not come from the top down (as with a law or regulation), but from individuals reducing their demand for those animal foods, in favor of vegan meat analogues. So it will not be increasing the "harvest" of wild animals.
Your comment somehow suggests that those making vegetarian choices would be responsible for the killing of more wild animals. There's simply no connection.
Your comment somehow suggests that those making vegetarian choices would be responsible for the killing of more wild animals. There's simply no connection.
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@CAH
Let's compare: commercial cows and hogs are kept in confinement operations, often up to their kness in their own excrement. Male animals are castrated. Hogs have their tails cut off so they don't chew on each other in the crowded pens. Cows are fed food unnatural for them so they are sick and uncomfortable much of the time.
An elk or deer lives a hard but natural life, eating its natural food in the company of other elk or deer but with plenty of space. If the animal lives to maturity it can mate. A hunter's bullet may kill it quickly so it doesn't die in old age from a wolf, lion or bear attack. Among hunters it is a point of pride to wait for a shot that kills an animal quickly and humanely. Real hunters don't bait.
And please learn something about wildlife management before you comment about "stressed population". Wild hogs are destructive pests in many parts of the country. Deer are disease-carrying pests in many suburban areas. In states with good management deer, elk, sheep, moose and antelope are plentiful.
Let's compare: commercial cows and hogs are kept in confinement operations, often up to their kness in their own excrement. Male animals are castrated. Hogs have their tails cut off so they don't chew on each other in the crowded pens. Cows are fed food unnatural for them so they are sick and uncomfortable much of the time.
An elk or deer lives a hard but natural life, eating its natural food in the company of other elk or deer but with plenty of space. If the animal lives to maturity it can mate. A hunter's bullet may kill it quickly so it doesn't die in old age from a wolf, lion or bear attack. Among hunters it is a point of pride to wait for a shot that kills an animal quickly and humanely. Real hunters don't bait.
And please learn something about wildlife management before you comment about "stressed population". Wild hogs are destructive pests in many parts of the country. Deer are disease-carrying pests in many suburban areas. In states with good management deer, elk, sheep, moose and antelope are plentiful.
2
Actually, from a utilitarian ethical perspective, we should be less concerned about beef (and burger consumption) as an ethical problem, and much much more concerned about chicken. Americans demand the slaughter of far more chickens than beef cattle or pigs. Millions of chickens, raised in hellish circumstances, are put to death daily. And there are no legal protections for chickens, because the animal welfare legislation that gives at least some protections to cattle and pigs intentionally excludes chickens in its definition of "animal."
Whatever it takes, people should be dissuaded from eating chickens and their eggs. And "fake meat" technology should concentrate first on finding substitutes for chicken meat and eggs.
Whatever it takes, people should be dissuaded from eating chickens and their eggs. And "fake meat" technology should concentrate first on finding substitutes for chicken meat and eggs.
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We all must eat and our choices as a population affect the entire planet. Our individual choices for each meal, however, may not be as impactful, especially if we choose, even once or twice a week, to eat a more healthy, locally sourced diet.
I am not a vegan but eliminated beef and pork from my diet more than 20 years ago. I dropped all birds and land animals 4 years ago. I stick with fish and whole plant foods for my protein now. I have found in recent years that there are a plethora of non-meat foods that are close enough in flavor, texture and protein profile to satisfy my need for tasty, healthy meals.
One of the products I like has the brand name "Quorn". It is a close substitute for chicken that works well, especially if made as a component of another dish like tacos or an Asian wrap. It is processed from a fungal material similar to mushrooms so I am not sure about its carbon or water footprint.
I am not a vegan but eliminated beef and pork from my diet more than 20 years ago. I dropped all birds and land animals 4 years ago. I stick with fish and whole plant foods for my protein now. I have found in recent years that there are a plethora of non-meat foods that are close enough in flavor, texture and protein profile to satisfy my need for tasty, healthy meals.
One of the products I like has the brand name "Quorn". It is a close substitute for chicken that works well, especially if made as a component of another dish like tacos or an Asian wrap. It is processed from a fungal material similar to mushrooms so I am not sure about its carbon or water footprint.
@Chas: I have some bad news for you. There is no shortage of cows nor chickens, but the oceans are literally being fished out -- the population of ocean fish is being rapidly destroyed. I suggest you read the book "Four Fishes: The future of the last wild food" by Paul Greenberg. It completely changed my mind about eating fish. I now believe there should be a five year moratorium on some popular fish species -- not because eating fish is "immoral", but because we are in dire danger of destroying whole species of fish.
So choosing fish over the unendangered chicken is not necessarily a wise or moral choice.
So choosing fish over the unendangered chicken is not necessarily a wise or moral choice.
2
Beyond Meat chicken strips taste great, I made a curried chicken salad last week with it.
For eggs, try the "Veg". Great for scrambles and a substitute for the egg. Go to their website and check it out
For eggs, try the "Veg". Great for scrambles and a substitute for the egg. Go to their website and check it out
"...hey, I'm in!" you say. But that's only IF Kristof can enjoy a juicy non-meat burger that tastes like the real one.
If not, then his logic says that he will continue to destroy the planet, torture and murder animals, and damage his health. Great logic, Nick! Love it.
If not, then his logic says that he will continue to destroy the planet, torture and murder animals, and damage his health. Great logic, Nick! Love it.
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FWIW, that is not Kristof's logic. That is the reality of the human condition.
1
Hopefully he’s just saying that to persuade a few of the bloodthirsty that non-meat can be just as satisfying as meat to meat eaters. Next, we need to make harvesting plants look as brave as whaling.
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I continue to be puzzled by this type of response -- one that I've seen many times, usually from vegan advocates who will not be satisfied until there is not another ounce of meat or dairy consumed. We understand the objective but gently suggest that it will be reached in small steps, like any societal change, civil rights, gay rights, women's rights, and that a militant mindset will do more to retard the process than promote it.
3
I loved red meat as a kid. Licked my bloody knees a good while before bandaging. The craving went away when as a teen I ditched dairy and my iron levels went up.
Went fully vegan at 17 and haven't looked back.
My latest burger creation is based on raw fava beans ground with mushrooms, and speckled with wild rice. Umami heaven!
And yes, this is a riff on falafel
Went fully vegan at 17 and haven't looked back.
My latest burger creation is based on raw fava beans ground with mushrooms, and speckled with wild rice. Umami heaven!
And yes, this is a riff on falafel
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As a totally off-topic aside, be careful of raw fava beans if you have a G6PD deficiency, common in people with Mediterranean or African heritage. G6PD is a key enzyme in the pathway that neutralizes reactive oxygen species. The huge amount of oxidants in uncooked fav beans increase the concentration of reactive oxygen species beyond which a deficient G6PD enzyme can cope.
In other words, your latest burger creation should be cooked well done!
In other words, your latest burger creation should be cooked well done!
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We eat turkey bacon - my daughter & wife hew closer to a vegetarian diet - no red meat in our household - while I'm still red-meat when eating out, albeit far from my former meat'n'potatoes diet. So I have altered my diet, some for health-conscious reasons.
That said, we often don't know exactly how the changes will effect us overall - because we can't until we do it. I'm often reminded of an NYT article years ago emphasizing the challenges of nutrition - the 'scientific' reductionist approach is simply untenable. Much like pharmaceuticals - we simply won't know the fullness of side-effects until many people over a long period of time take the drugs.
So whatever labs results there may be, and what studies have been done, we simply won't - and can't - really know until enough people over enough time actually eat this ...