I would say,as long as the number immigrating is offset by the number dying and emmigrating,it should be OK.If population is growing and causing a lot of crowding,congestion and welfare dependency,then not OK.
If France is worried that the migrants will drive wages down, that ship sailed long ago with the globalization of jobs, and with corporations seeking the lowest labour costs for both manufacturing and service jobs.
Whether we like it or not, the world is changing. The refugees have a hurdles to overcome in learning language and gaining new skills. They might just set the standard for the world to follow, and prove hard work and dedication gets results.
Whether we like it or not, the world is changing. The refugees have a hurdles to overcome in learning language and gaining new skills. They might just set the standard for the world to follow, and prove hard work and dedication gets results.
2
migrant (mī′grənt)
n.
1. An organism, especially an animal, that moves from one region to another (as for breeding) or that has established itself in an area where it previously did not exist. 2. An itinerant worker who travels from one area to another in search of work. 3. A person who leaves one country to settle permanently in another; an immigrant.
refugee (rĕf′yo͝o-jē′)
n.
One who flees, especially to another country, seeking refuge from war, political oppression, religious persecution, or a natural disaster.
The media should stop referring to these Syrians as "migrants" they are not migrating. They are fleeing civil war. They are 'refugees". When the US & Europe finally finds the will to stop the war and rebuild Syria, they should all be sent back home.
n.
1. An organism, especially an animal, that moves from one region to another (as for breeding) or that has established itself in an area where it previously did not exist. 2. An itinerant worker who travels from one area to another in search of work. 3. A person who leaves one country to settle permanently in another; an immigrant.
refugee (rĕf′yo͝o-jē′)
n.
One who flees, especially to another country, seeking refuge from war, political oppression, religious persecution, or a natural disaster.
The media should stop referring to these Syrians as "migrants" they are not migrating. They are fleeing civil war. They are 'refugees". When the US & Europe finally finds the will to stop the war and rebuild Syria, they should all be sent back home.
1
A little correction: Germany took Syrian refugees only, and refused all other refugees and migrants.
A racial selection, as is the the WWII German habit, which still remains in their chromosomes.
Germany now puts to work the refugees, that is positive for them, but really to transform the 21 Billions budget surplus into 21 Billions production capital and become steadily richer.
Nothing happens casually in Germany, except after accurate calculations, and the refugees acceptance did no exception.
The German behavior, also if financially interested and a great electoral propaganda for Ms Merkel, is anyway much better that the Hungarian and East European one in general.
EU is now divided into Central, Northern, Southern and Eastern, according to financial, racial, mental and nationalistic differences.
The U of EU is therefore not more existing, the EU is dead, leaving simply the old Europe which soon or later will generate a new war (even if financial only), as it was during all the past millennium.
In this scenario Germany plays a key role, having caused two world wars only in the past century and smartly never paying the damages, while from Greece they want back their money to the last cent and in the meantime they impose them harsh measures and to sell all national properties, in order to destroy the Greeks' future for the next 100 years.
The refugees acceptance is therefore a partial moral reparation to the bad reputation gained in the Greek crisis.
A racial selection, as is the the WWII German habit, which still remains in their chromosomes.
Germany now puts to work the refugees, that is positive for them, but really to transform the 21 Billions budget surplus into 21 Billions production capital and become steadily richer.
Nothing happens casually in Germany, except after accurate calculations, and the refugees acceptance did no exception.
The German behavior, also if financially interested and a great electoral propaganda for Ms Merkel, is anyway much better that the Hungarian and East European one in general.
EU is now divided into Central, Northern, Southern and Eastern, according to financial, racial, mental and nationalistic differences.
The U of EU is therefore not more existing, the EU is dead, leaving simply the old Europe which soon or later will generate a new war (even if financial only), as it was during all the past millennium.
In this scenario Germany plays a key role, having caused two world wars only in the past century and smartly never paying the damages, while from Greece they want back their money to the last cent and in the meantime they impose them harsh measures and to sell all national properties, in order to destroy the Greeks' future for the next 100 years.
The refugees acceptance is therefore a partial moral reparation to the bad reputation gained in the Greek crisis.
Good for you Jason. I applaud this young man's good fortune but anyone who thinks his situation will be the lot of anything more than a tiny percentage of the muslim immigrants flooding into Europe is insane. The far more likely - indeed virtually certain - result will be an instinct to concentrate much as our own Italian and Irish forebearers did. That's normal and understandable. But, in is case, as in virtually every instance where muslim immigrants settle in large numbers in the west with minimal education and job skills, anger and resentment will eventually take root and fester and grow. I honestly believe there are few if any jihadis in this influx. But give it time and they will blossom
5
Germany is a bizarre place. When I was young kid in a Displaced Persons (DP) camp near Hamburg, the German cops frequently called us "verfluchte auslanders" ( cursed foreigners) and threw rocks at us kids. And we were white and Lutheran! The year was 1948. I guess we were still considered untermenschen, a couple of steps removed from the Jews and Slavs. I was Latvian as were my young shoeless friends.
7
This is heartening, but far from the full story. It is terrific that highly intelligent, skilled, literate people are being integrated quickly into the workforce with living wage jobs. The real test will be the non-literate, low- or no-skill people - who greatly outnumber the former. Are there enough McDonald's-type jobs available, what strata of the economy will they occupy, what level of state support will they require, and can Germany afford that large incremental increase in support with only a modest gain in productivity?
7
Please put some fairy-tails straight:
(1) Manfred Schmidt, the head of the Federal Office for Migration and Refugees, cited “personal reasons” for his resignation. Which is an euphemism for he was told to quit for incompetence. But he is considered to be a fall guy for Thomas de Maizière, who has fallen short in expectations. All this twitter-post reasoning is a fairy tail.
(2) Germany didn't "open" it's border, or did invite anyone. What we did was to revoke the Dublin-III-agreement, which just states, that every asylum-process must proceeded at the first schengen-member. We revoked this agreement on the urgent request of greece and hungary, and also because we conceived it as stupid. We revoked it just for arabians, we still wanted hungary to sort out the balkan migrants, who just come for economic reasons. It take us 2 minutes to do determine this if someone can speak arabian or not, but still we are left with all the expenditure to send the balkans back.
(3) German borders are not closed. Monday more than 3000 refugees crossed the border. We have now established a regular train-shuttle to bring refugees from austria to distribution hubs in germany, this starts today.
Munich as hub was overstretched, especially with the Oktoberfest starting this WE, with expected 6 Million visitors.
(1) Manfred Schmidt, the head of the Federal Office for Migration and Refugees, cited “personal reasons” for his resignation. Which is an euphemism for he was told to quit for incompetence. But he is considered to be a fall guy for Thomas de Maizière, who has fallen short in expectations. All this twitter-post reasoning is a fairy tail.
(2) Germany didn't "open" it's border, or did invite anyone. What we did was to revoke the Dublin-III-agreement, which just states, that every asylum-process must proceeded at the first schengen-member. We revoked this agreement on the urgent request of greece and hungary, and also because we conceived it as stupid. We revoked it just for arabians, we still wanted hungary to sort out the balkan migrants, who just come for economic reasons. It take us 2 minutes to do determine this if someone can speak arabian or not, but still we are left with all the expenditure to send the balkans back.
(3) German borders are not closed. Monday more than 3000 refugees crossed the border. We have now established a regular train-shuttle to bring refugees from austria to distribution hubs in germany, this starts today.
Munich as hub was overstretched, especially with the Oktoberfest starting this WE, with expected 6 Million visitors.
3
Germany wanted Hungary to "sort out" the immigrants for them? Looks like they don't want to be Germany's lapdog. Migrants didn't read the fine print--that only "arabians" were invited to migrate. So the Germans are left to "sort out" the migrants themselves.
10
They were complaining that Turkish Government did not give them houses, and take care of them. Chances are they will have the similar expectations from German Government, too.
11
Meanwhile, the smartest people seem to be the Gulf States who pay money to support the migrants but don't allow them in to for fear of "destablizing their country." Wonder who will turn out to be right? UAE or Germany?
15
With the vast amount of U.S. media coverage of nearly every conceivable issue concerning the crisis of "Migrants" (or as I call them, Middle East war refugees) I continue to be absolutely amazed that the media has spent no time, ink. or broadcast bandwidth seriously addressing the actual 'cause' of these hundreds of thousands of "Migrants" (nor the tens of thousands of citizen deaths) in the countries like Syria, Libya, Iraq, Yemen, etc. that happen to be the countries that the militarist Empire HQed in, and 'posing' as, our former country which has actually started all these wars and leading to all such human crises, eh?
5
Most people know the cause of the war in Syria. It was a civil war started by Syrians specifically the Sunnis. Syrians started marching against Assad as part of the Arab spring. Assad killed some of them leading the Sunnis to rebel and start a civil war. Russia, China and Iran backed Assad in the war while Saudi Arabia backed the Sunni rebels. None of these countries are taking any Syrian migrants. Now we are witnessing mostly able bodied young Syrians running away to Germany rather then staying and finishing the civil war they started. So yes we know the cause at least in Syria.
17
@Gaeta14
As an immigrant in Germany you mentioned in your initial post: that ‘the integration lessons were heavy handed and insensitive, such as lessons on why birth out of wedlock was not a problem at all.’
If you are migrating to a country where birth out of wedlock is not a problem, then you probably should respect that. There will be many other ideas that may be hard for the new migrants to accept, such as: complete equality (including sexual freedom) of women, homosexuality, divorce, complete freedom of speech, interracial and interfaith marriages, females in leadership positions etc.
These are not ‘heavy handed and insensitive’ ideas – they are core freedoms that are essential in most Western societies.
The NYT hugely fails its readers by not openly discussing the fact these cultural divides will cause massive problems. And probably bring some very negative impacts on the empowerment of women in many of these countries - receiving millions of people who will not accept the core values of the societies they are migrating to.
As an immigrant in Germany you mentioned in your initial post: that ‘the integration lessons were heavy handed and insensitive, such as lessons on why birth out of wedlock was not a problem at all.’
If you are migrating to a country where birth out of wedlock is not a problem, then you probably should respect that. There will be many other ideas that may be hard for the new migrants to accept, such as: complete equality (including sexual freedom) of women, homosexuality, divorce, complete freedom of speech, interracial and interfaith marriages, females in leadership positions etc.
These are not ‘heavy handed and insensitive’ ideas – they are core freedoms that are essential in most Western societies.
The NYT hugely fails its readers by not openly discussing the fact these cultural divides will cause massive problems. And probably bring some very negative impacts on the empowerment of women in many of these countries - receiving millions of people who will not accept the core values of the societies they are migrating to.
43
Peisinoe, my thoughts exactly!
9
And now Germany begins to backtrack from its absolutely disastrous decision to broadcast to every person in the Third World "Come to Europe! We will take care of you, no questions asked!": https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/croatia-is-the-new-frontline-in-eur...
One wonders how the NYT and the other incredibly biased liberal media will react to this about-face from Germany, which clearly has realized it made a drastic, unforgivable error in inviting this chaos to Europe. My assumption is the Times will continue to ignore reality and castigate Germany for finally apparently coming to its senses. One can only hope that the liberal media will apologize to Hungary for putting an end to this madness.
One wonders how the NYT and the other incredibly biased liberal media will react to this about-face from Germany, which clearly has realized it made a drastic, unforgivable error in inviting this chaos to Europe. My assumption is the Times will continue to ignore reality and castigate Germany for finally apparently coming to its senses. One can only hope that the liberal media will apologize to Hungary for putting an end to this madness.
14
"The Third World"?? Well Iraq was not "third world" until we bombed the daylights out of it. And neither was Syria, until it got decimated by a government fighting a force borne from the vacuum we left in Iraq. Meanwhile, I've seen parts of Missouri I'd class as 3rd world.
4
That's the point! US should take responsibility and take most of the refugees. They (and their "allies") destabilized huge parts of the middle east. They failed big time. Who has to pay now? Germany, Greece, Italy etc. all countries that were not only not involved in bombing Iraq, Libya but also warned the US about the consequences...
And who is flooded now by these poor refugees?
And who is flooded now by these poor refugees?
1
A very recent report from the BBC:
While the tragedy of those fleeing Syria's terrible civil war has caught the popular imagination, such people formed just 20.1% of those seeking asylum in Germany from January to August 2015.
If you add together the Balkan arrivals (from Albania, Kosovo, Serbia, and Macedonia) they amount to twice that, 40.2%. The figures for those granted refuge are quite different because many of the applications from Balkan countries are rejected.
It's hard to avoid the conclusion that tens of thousands of people from relatively peaceful countries have joined the trek to Germany, which is seen as one of the most desirable places in Europe to live.
To put it more bluntly: they are taking advantage of and increasing this crisis. Statistics (attached report in German) compiled by the German authorities show that while the number of Syrians went up by 177% during the first nine months of 2015 (compared with the same period last year), the rise from Albania was 631%.
While the tragedy of those fleeing Syria's terrible civil war has caught the popular imagination, such people formed just 20.1% of those seeking asylum in Germany from January to August 2015.
If you add together the Balkan arrivals (from Albania, Kosovo, Serbia, and Macedonia) they amount to twice that, 40.2%. The figures for those granted refuge are quite different because many of the applications from Balkan countries are rejected.
It's hard to avoid the conclusion that tens of thousands of people from relatively peaceful countries have joined the trek to Germany, which is seen as one of the most desirable places in Europe to live.
To put it more bluntly: they are taking advantage of and increasing this crisis. Statistics (attached report in German) compiled by the German authorities show that while the number of Syrians went up by 177% during the first nine months of 2015 (compared with the same period last year), the rise from Albania was 631%.
19
It's good to see that someone in Europe has taken such a pragmatic approach to refugees and immigrants. If only all the other EU member states would see the refugees not just as a cost and irritant, this crisis wouldn't have reached such an awful level.
The whole continent is ageing. But since that is seen as a problem for future generations, nothing much is happening now - other than xenophobia.
The whole continent is ageing. But since that is seen as a problem for future generations, nothing much is happening now - other than xenophobia.
1
"The whole continent is ageing"
With increasing automation, there will be much less need for workers in the future.
With increasing automation, there will be much less need for workers in the future.
8
automation so far has mainly replaced unskilled labor. Who builds the automated machines ? Skilled toolmakers, electricians, mechanics. I understand that this apprenticeship program is very unique to central Europe and has created (and continues to create) a highly skilled and productive workforce.
1
Germany is really an inclusive country, accommodating the greatest number of refugees in Europe. The best way to assimilate the refugees is, as Germany has done, to provide the work opportunities for these people, making them part of the economy. The hunger state of the labor market in Germany will bring no pressure to the local people. In addition to economy, I am concerned about the culture part. These refugees are mostly muslim, but Germany is a stronghold of Christianity; therefore, the conflict in faith and culture will unavoidably appear. If Germany regards muslim as the part of its culture, this will influence all walks of life: law, politics, social code and even personal behaviours. Are German willing to confront and accept this change from the influx?
7
Germany is the country of Martin Luther, Kant and Nietzsche, of reformation and philosophical atheism.
4
The problem is Germany need not nor be forced to change its culture in a one sided way to accommodate what is essential and always will be a foreign religion/culture. Its the Syrians who need to assimilate and give thanks. Conform their culture and believes to German standards. Otherwise why did they come? was it just for the freebies not available on the Turkish border?
2
Indeed, the birthplace of Zeitgeist.
I am puzzled as to why some people think that this importation of migrants into Europe reflects the principles of a "European Union." The rich European countries are selling out the poor ones. There isn't anything remotely united about this. If Germany needs workers, Italy, Spain, and Greece have more than enough to supply them.
25
Germany does not need workers. Germany does need high skilled academics ( and most of the refugees are not). And btw: there are already hundreds of thousands of Greeks, Spaniards and Italians in Germany.
4
This article tells me there is political blowback for Merkel due to migrants flooding into Germany. Many of the migrants speak openly about going to Germany to get benefits including "free" money and a "free" apartment. Rather then going for freedom and democracy and to work and contribute. So viola a migrant who actual wants to work and contribute appears.I'm sure the idea of migrants flooding in to live at German workers expense does not sit well with working taxpayers. Now you also have a German official stepping down and the suggestion that a tweet he made suggesting that any Syrian could come to Germany for "free" stuff was a mistake. Turns out Merkel who bragged Germany could handle 800.000 migrants could not handle a rush of 40,000 and had to shut the border. Closing the border, disavowing the tweet and putting migrants to work are Germany's way of telling migrants they really don't want them not even all Syrians. They are also letting migrants know they will not retire to a life of ease on benefits but that they will be expected to work. Maybe in fast food or as a nurses aide.It is also a way for Germany to try to escape blame for the migrant crisis that Germany caused as Merkel seeks to off load her excess migrants on to other EU countries that do not want them.
22
How about Germany start integrating the 3 million Turks they already have?
"In comparison to the German population, the Turks living in Germany perform very poorly in general education: 57 percent of those surveyed have no high school diploma or only attended a secondary modern school (Hauptschule).
In addition, 40 percent of Turks in Germany have no professional qualifications (27% is the German average), which is important for successful participation in working life. Only 47 percent of those surveyed (men: 56%, women: 39%) are fully or partially employed. In comparison, 58 percent of the German population do have jobs."
http://www.citizentimes.eu/2012/08/23/turks-in-germany-2012/
"In comparison to the German population, the Turks living in Germany perform very poorly in general education: 57 percent of those surveyed have no high school diploma or only attended a secondary modern school (Hauptschule).
In addition, 40 percent of Turks in Germany have no professional qualifications (27% is the German average), which is important for successful participation in working life. Only 47 percent of those surveyed (men: 56%, women: 39%) are fully or partially employed. In comparison, 58 percent of the German population do have jobs."
http://www.citizentimes.eu/2012/08/23/turks-in-germany-2012/
15
Indeed, Angela Merkel had always opposed to Turkey's bid for EU membership.
5
The problem with these statistics are, that turks can decide, if they want to hold german citizenship or not.
If you go through the numbers more precisely you will learn, that of the 3 million turks in germany, about the half have become german citizen. This of course makes you wonder what intentions the other half has to refuse german citizenship. Hint: refusal of full integration may be a good guess.
So if we are talking about turks in germany, we are talking about 1.5 million turks, who for some reason have refused to become german citizen.
But this also is not a reason for concern, even those, who want to stay turkish citizen, are well integrated, they just have lowered their own expectations.
If you go through the numbers more precisely you will learn, that of the 3 million turks in germany, about the half have become german citizen. This of course makes you wonder what intentions the other half has to refuse german citizenship. Hint: refusal of full integration may be a good guess.
So if we are talking about turks in germany, we are talking about 1.5 million turks, who for some reason have refused to become german citizen.
But this also is not a reason for concern, even those, who want to stay turkish citizen, are well integrated, they just have lowered their own expectations.
2
The Afghan refugee, Nematullah Jasor is lucky that he can earn a very modest living - "945 euros a month before taxes" - as an apprentice at Zahnradfabrik (ZF) in Passau. Unlike many of his peers in Germany, who can live with their parents, Jasor has to pay 208 euros a month for a "small room". There won't be much left to live on. But if he gets into the second year, he will get more. He seems to be a pleasant person. I wish him all the best!
Wages are lower in Germany, and many Germans prefer to come to Switzerland, where they can earn much better.
Wages are lower in Germany, and many Germans prefer to come to Switzerland, where they can earn much better.
8
If you think this doesn't affect you America, keep in mind this guy and his buddies' will now get a German passport and can travel to the US unfettered. He may be lovely and assimilated, he may be grateful, but those guys throwing rocks at the Hungarian border yesterday, not so much.
21
it won't be long before the US will have a visa requirement for all EU countries in the name of security. it won't do much good but hey anything for a mushrooming and expanding government bureaucracy . NYT and its readers think that the solution to every issue is to expand government.
1
Yes, compared with what is happening in Hungary, Syria and elsewhere in the world, Germany is doing what should be done. But please also remember that Germany need nearly half a million people to work in their economy. Germany has always provided work for immigrants from Italy, Turkey and eastern European countries for ages.
Hence doing the right thing - or normal thing - has become extraordinary these days, because the world is not normal any more for these refugees in their home county and along the way. But that does not necessary make Germany extraordinary.
Hence doing the right thing - or normal thing - has become extraordinary these days, because the world is not normal any more for these refugees in their home county and along the way. But that does not necessary make Germany extraordinary.
4
But are these migrants willing to work in very humble and menial jobs that the Turks seem to fill in Germany now? And how do the Turks feel about these newcomers who they will be competing with for jobs?
3
So in this article they are migrants who want to work, not refugees to whom the world (arguably) owes something? I guess it depends on what part of the paper the article is in?
"There is something to be said about thinking of refugees not just as victims but as potential contributors to societies and economies in the future,” said Elizabeth Collett, a policy fellow at the Migration Policy Institute Europe, based in Brussels.
These refugees(?) have already shown some pretty heavy doses of free will. I wouldn't expect them to line up for minimum wage jobs for long.
"There is something to be said about thinking of refugees not just as victims but as potential contributors to societies and economies in the future,” said Elizabeth Collett, a policy fellow at the Migration Policy Institute Europe, based in Brussels.
These refugees(?) have already shown some pretty heavy doses of free will. I wouldn't expect them to line up for minimum wage jobs for long.
14
The German program is an excellent one but it deals basically with small numbers of refugees. I am not sure that it can even begin to handle the swarm of migrants heading for Germany.
German is not an easy language and I do not expect many of the migrants to learn it. ONce again, depending on how Germany deals with economic migrants, there will be large ghettos of Syrian in various German cities with the accompanying social problem that come with ghettos.
There are already large Turkish ghettos made up of Gastarbeiter who never adjusted. Like most ghettos they are crime ridden, people live off welfare and criminal activities. That is the future of many Syrian who will not adept.
Why does the NYT hide the truth from its readers about this vast horde rampaging through Europe and what it will do to Europe.
German is not an easy language and I do not expect many of the migrants to learn it. ONce again, depending on how Germany deals with economic migrants, there will be large ghettos of Syrian in various German cities with the accompanying social problem that come with ghettos.
There are already large Turkish ghettos made up of Gastarbeiter who never adjusted. Like most ghettos they are crime ridden, people live off welfare and criminal activities. That is the future of many Syrian who will not adept.
Why does the NYT hide the truth from its readers about this vast horde rampaging through Europe and what it will do to Europe.
26
No wonder the refugees are desperate to go to Germany which is taking the most positive approach possible to this crisis. Yes, it is extremely difficult to integrate such large numbers of people. Yes, there will be many failures - but putting them to work as a way to integrate allows them to contribute rather all be wards of the state, living apart in ghettos as has happened elsewhere.
I spent a very productive sabbatical year there and sat in on free German classes which was populated by mostly Eastern European immigrants.
If any country can pull this off, it will be Germany. I wish Germany success.
I spent a very productive sabbatical year there and sat in on free German classes which was populated by mostly Eastern European immigrants.
If any country can pull this off, it will be Germany. I wish Germany success.
9
I am an American who has lived in Germany for six years. I am pretty appalled by the misinformation that is being presented as fact and the commentary made by people who did not read the entire article and are ignorant of reality.
Germany is a socialist nation. People who do not work are supported by the government through money, training and counsel. Here people on welfare get money to buy food for their pets, so the idea that poor Germans are suffering, while new migrants are getting rich off the government is ridiculous.
Germany and other nations are trying to make the best of the terrible situation. There will be problems but this irrational fear of lazy terrorists entering European borders is based on fantasy and is useless.
Germany is a socialist nation. People who do not work are supported by the government through money, training and counsel. Here people on welfare get money to buy food for their pets, so the idea that poor Germans are suffering, while new migrants are getting rich off the government is ridiculous.
Germany and other nations are trying to make the best of the terrible situation. There will be problems but this irrational fear of lazy terrorists entering European borders is based on fantasy and is useless.
7
And if they were jews fleeing Europe, would you say the same?
If this were 1941, the headline would be "Many Obstacles Are Seen to U.S.,Canada and Australia, Taking in Large Number of Jewish Refugees". We should all be ashamed - this country is special and should exercise more compassion. Our leaders have destabilized the Middle East (due to incompetence, not bad intentions) but now this is all Europe's problem ?
We are all immigrants or descendants of immigrants. At the very least we should use our still considerable influence to get our ME "allies" to accept refugees if the public at large is too busy with the beginning of football season to remember what this country is about. But I am confident that if the media did a better job of explaining the magnitude of this crisis, the American people would rise to the occasion.
If this were 1941, the headline would be "Many Obstacles Are Seen to U.S.,Canada and Australia, Taking in Large Number of Jewish Refugees". We should all be ashamed - this country is special and should exercise more compassion. Our leaders have destabilized the Middle East (due to incompetence, not bad intentions) but now this is all Europe's problem ?
We are all immigrants or descendants of immigrants. At the very least we should use our still considerable influence to get our ME "allies" to accept refugees if the public at large is too busy with the beginning of football season to remember what this country is about. But I am confident that if the media did a better job of explaining the magnitude of this crisis, the American people would rise to the occasion.
2
Here's a Merriam Webster definition of Socialism:
... a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state...
Yes, there is a social component to the German form of capitalism, f.i. helping unemployed back to their feet. But calling Germany a socialist nation is far fetched and this view most likely influenced by FoxNews rather than living 6 years in Germany.
... a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state...
Yes, there is a social component to the German form of capitalism, f.i. helping unemployed back to their feet. But calling Germany a socialist nation is far fetched and this view most likely influenced by FoxNews rather than living 6 years in Germany.
1
There a variety of modern systems that are described as socialist, including several in northern Europe. Perhaps you would prefer the term social democracy.
A careful reading of my comment would show that I am in favor of the system of government in Germany. Unlike Fox News, I do not think socialism is a dirty word. By the way, as a resident of Germany, I cannot be influenced by Fox News (It's not available here.)
A careful reading of my comment would show that I am in favor of the system of government in Germany. Unlike Fox News, I do not think socialism is a dirty word. By the way, as a resident of Germany, I cannot be influenced by Fox News (It's not available here.)
Can we have another article on the refugees living in ghetto's, living on the dole and rioting beacuse is reality also and not an anecdotal one.
29
Do you speak or read German, Liz? I do, because I'm a first generation Austrian. It's one of the most difficult languages to learn and master. What a rosy-colored-glasses article this is.
What a disaster this will all turn out to be.
What a disaster this will all turn out to be.
34
I enjoy visiting Germany, but it is a very culturally rigid society. It's immediately obvious that the Turkish community is marginalized and work at the more menial jobs. Unless German society changes radically and becomes more multicultural in a way similar to the US and Canada, these thousands of migrants will be permanent outsiders living on government benefits (and resentful at the same time). And yes, for adults it will be nearly impossible for them to learn more than the most rudimentary German.
2
That is only partly true, turkish immigrants in Germany or better their children are f.ex elected politicians (men and women), work in all kind of offices and you would have no problem finding lawyers, doctors.... with turkish names. What may be true is that they are not the religious kind.
1
And we arrived at the chic of the issue. German think they are the leader of Europe but they only watch out for German interest. Encouraging illegal migration and forcing other countries to take them in to drive down labor costs works great for Germany, the second or third largest industrial economy on Earth but it wrack havoc on other countries which have a more primary or service oriented economy.
Germany is doing to Europe what the British Empire was doing to its colonies. Getting the cheapest possible raw materials and labor from the colonies, value add (manufacturing) in home country and sell back to the colonies at price low enough to ensure no local competition.
Germany is doing to Europe what the British Empire was doing to its colonies. Getting the cheapest possible raw materials and labor from the colonies, value add (manufacturing) in home country and sell back to the colonies at price low enough to ensure no local competition.
17
The sentence was suppose to read "we arrived at the crux of the issue". Darn autocorrect.
Fact. At the moment Germany takes about 60 % of all refugees in the EU. About 500000 this year. Poland, rpughly the same size but with half the inhabitants, may be persuaded to take in 5000.
1
AmateurHistorian: "Germany exploiting countries around"? Not so simple. There is a lot of indigenous advanced manufacturing rapidly expanding in Poland for example. Possible in part thanks to the existence of an open German market close by. Germans buy loads of highly manufactured goods made elsewhere, not only raw materials or cheap labor.
As the trade volumes are really high and rapidly growing, all parties to the exchange profit. In case of Poland, just released data show 87% people "satisfied with their lives". Highest we ever had. Not quite an image of an "exploited colony".
As the trade volumes are really high and rapidly growing, all parties to the exchange profit. In case of Poland, just released data show 87% people "satisfied with their lives". Highest we ever had. Not quite an image of an "exploited colony".
1
Riddle me this:
if there are so many wonderful jobs available to migrants who have little/no education and don't speak the language... why is unemployment throughout the EU so high?
Let me guess... Italians, Spaniards, and Greeks are "lazy" and "don't want" the jobs that these new entrants will take.
sounds a lot like the arguments we get here in the US to try to justify the illegal invasion from Mexico and Central America.
Well, I hope that Germany's 1 million Muslim entrants (not including the several million family members who will now come) assimilate better than the ones we have here in Minnesota, who still to this day go back to fight for ISIS despite getting free education, free healthcare and free housing.
if there are so many wonderful jobs available to migrants who have little/no education and don't speak the language... why is unemployment throughout the EU so high?
Let me guess... Italians, Spaniards, and Greeks are "lazy" and "don't want" the jobs that these new entrants will take.
sounds a lot like the arguments we get here in the US to try to justify the illegal invasion from Mexico and Central America.
Well, I hope that Germany's 1 million Muslim entrants (not including the several million family members who will now come) assimilate better than the ones we have here in Minnesota, who still to this day go back to fight for ISIS despite getting free education, free healthcare and free housing.
34
You Americans should realize how lucky you are to get Mexicans and Central Americans, their culture is much closer to yours than the Middle Easterners' is to ours.
10
Actually there has been a steady influx of folks from Southern European countries to Germany. Being able to work anywhere within the EU as an EU citizen is one of the union's greatest positives.
1
Yes Marie, you have a point - I am specially concern about their view and treatment of women.
That will be 50% of migrants that almost certainly won't work.
That will be 50% of migrants that almost certainly won't work.
15
Thanks, Germany, for helping all these refugees! I hope we'll be able to accept more to the U.S. soon also.
3
The NYT editorial board are under direct orders from their manager/owner carlos slim to push for open borders at all times, as he has mexican telecom and banking monopolies that are enriched when mexican illegal aliens call home/send remittances. That explains why the NYT editorial board has become so strong an advocate of open borders, everywhere. It gives them the fig leaf of being "consistent", even if the idea itself is lunacy.
As for the syrians, No one wants to take in any of them - they were the same people sending in terrorists to murder US troops in iraq, housed the hamas HQ for years, and repeated polls there showed widespread support for terrorism against Israeli civilians.
Look at how "well" arab muslims are assimilating in France, Sweden and the UK...
No thank you, they can go to iran or russia - the two close friends of assad. Alternatively, their "brother" arabs in the Gulf of Arabia can take them in. We do not want them in EU.
As for the syrians, No one wants to take in any of them - they were the same people sending in terrorists to murder US troops in iraq, housed the hamas HQ for years, and repeated polls there showed widespread support for terrorism against Israeli civilians.
Look at how "well" arab muslims are assimilating in France, Sweden and the UK...
No thank you, they can go to iran or russia - the two close friends of assad. Alternatively, their "brother" arabs in the Gulf of Arabia can take them in. We do not want them in EU.
29
I used to admire Merkel, immensely, as a leader. I now think she should be impeached: She is not representing her electorate.
She's putting the troubles of others before the well-being if her own nation - without considering the possibly very destructive consequences. That is not what she was voted in for - and therefore she is violating her privilege.
It is simply unethical to ask for a region to self-destruct just because it fits one’s political or myopically moral beliefs.
While the migrants and refugees should be treated with humanity - they should not be allowed to enter or stay in Europe. The real failure of the Middle-East has little to do with Western politics or culture: it has to do with a society that allows brutality and corruption, which subjugates women to second class citizens (and now also to sexual slavery), death to homosexuals and which imposes a medieval brand of Islam intolerant to any other creed or ideas.
By allowing these migrants to enter their territory Europe will be importing this failed culture together with all its problems.
She's putting the troubles of others before the well-being if her own nation - without considering the possibly very destructive consequences. That is not what she was voted in for - and therefore she is violating her privilege.
It is simply unethical to ask for a region to self-destruct just because it fits one’s political or myopically moral beliefs.
While the migrants and refugees should be treated with humanity - they should not be allowed to enter or stay in Europe. The real failure of the Middle-East has little to do with Western politics or culture: it has to do with a society that allows brutality and corruption, which subjugates women to second class citizens (and now also to sexual slavery), death to homosexuals and which imposes a medieval brand of Islam intolerant to any other creed or ideas.
By allowing these migrants to enter their territory Europe will be importing this failed culture together with all its problems.
37
What will you do with the uneducated, the lazy, the radical, the ones that want your money/handout but wants you to bend to their culture?
Great concept, so is communism...
Great concept, so is communism...
31
A nice story, but this young man seems to be the exception. The company where he has been hired stated that he is the only migrant they have on the payroll. Daimler has not hired any. In addition the article kind of glosses over the difficulty in integrating and learning the language.
23
This man started studying German *before* he decided he wanted to move to Germany.
Unfortunately, he is in the minority.
Unfortunately, he is in the minority.
6
including Spaniards and Greeks with their sky high unemployment rates who chose to learn english over german.
1
Germany's commendable program should be an exemplar for the remainder of the free world. Taking care of the people--all of them. Get them engaged fast--before they begin to languish and lose hope and become depressed and eventually become a drain on a society's resources. This is both courageous and far-sighted. Why can't we replicate this in the United States where it is so sorely needed? Instead of debating how to start keeping "them" out and even worse, "sending them back", often in harm's way.
4
Because this is one instance. It as an anecdote and relates to nothing on a larger scale.
11
Struggling EU citizens (many of whom, for one reason or another, aren't eligible for free housing, health care, education + pocket money) are watching all of this, which is why the right wing is growing stronger all over Europe.
It's terrible that people need to flee their homes because of war but most of these migrants are economic immigrants, and there's already quite a bit of trouble with immigrants who don't integrate, even if they've been living in Europe for a few generations: hand grenades being thrown, women being assaulted for not covering themselves like Muslim women do, growing Roma (and other) shantytowns etc.
If Germany really needs more skilled labor there's a whole lot of jobless Europeans all over the place, many of whom already paid loads in taxes.
It's terrible that people need to flee their homes because of war but most of these migrants are economic immigrants, and there's already quite a bit of trouble with immigrants who don't integrate, even if they've been living in Europe for a few generations: hand grenades being thrown, women being assaulted for not covering themselves like Muslim women do, growing Roma (and other) shantytowns etc.
If Germany really needs more skilled labor there's a whole lot of jobless Europeans all over the place, many of whom already paid loads in taxes.
31
Is there anyone who cares about the people of Germany who are poor and unemployed, many of whom are living in poverty, no jobs, etc., etc.??? Do any of you REALLY believe migrants should take priority over the people of Germany (or ANY country) who are in need??? Where are the REAL leaders in the world who would never make their people in need suffer so much, to help others, and who would be setting the example of REAL leadership by being physically WITH their people who are in serious need (not sitting in all their often luxurious, comfortable "settings", safe, secure, with all their basic needs for living, plentiful, available at their beck and call, all the while pontificating and dictating to their subordinates and "experts" - now THERE is a laugh - to do what they are told to do, etc., etc., ad nauseam) ENCOURAGING them, INSPIRING them, and HELPING them get what they NEED, THEN, helping others in need??? Is there anyone who understands what is REAL leadership??? Are you THAT caught up in money, gadgets, celebrity, gossip, personal comfort, and so on??? No REAL leader will destroy his/her own people in order to help other people...
20
It is really strange that so-called Progressives seem willing to completely let the elites of the home countries of these migrants off the hook for failing to provide for their people, while at the same time condemning any observation by the working class and poor of the destination countries who oppose massive influxes of immigration as racist and xenophobic.
It's just a class-based sense of disconnect in my opinion - this doesn't negatively impact the elites of the home or destination countries, so it's not a problem.
It's just a class-based sense of disconnect in my opinion - this doesn't negatively impact the elites of the home or destination countries, so it's not a problem.
2
Well you know everyone in Germany already has health insurance and gets social benefits. The unemployment rate is under 5%. So they are really way, way ahead of the US in taking care of their own people. Talk about leadership!
5
Please Note From the Article: There is a 25% difference between the number of migrant men vs. migrant women working and only a 10% amongst other Germans. This is a huge difference and no doubt speaks about the lack of assimilation amongst Muslim women. You can not have only half of a migrant population assimilate to be considered successful.
29
Any refugee that has the physical, mental and financial means to travel to Northern Europe from the Middle East through the various barriers has the potential to become an integrated part of their new home. The weak, unintelligent, and poor have been left behind. This could be a major boon to the European economy. And although there are fears that there could be extremists mixed with the migrants, there could also be future business Titans. Exploit their potential and everyone can win.
1
Keep thinking that way and then remember the 9/11 terorists also had the physical, mental and financial means to come to America.
19
One of the ring leaders of 9/11 Mohammad Atta had a masters degree. And he flew a plane into the WTC killing thousands. So yes a few extremist can do a lot of damage.
9
When I moved to Germany, I enrolled in the local Folk School's language and culture classes, which had just become obligatory to gain your permanent visa. I jumped at the chance to really understand what it was like to be an immigrant.My son attended the "immigrant school". In general, the atmosphere was wild. The deciding point, however, was when we learned that NOT ONE CHILD had been selected by the teaching staff to go on to the gymnasium level-the college track-in two years.
My daughter's experience was much different. We managed to talk her into one of the gymnasiums, where with the help of a sympathetic teacher and a circle of girlfriends, she flourished. There were only a few--a very few--immigrant children in the school. They had all been shunted off to the Hochschule and Realschule tracks. My two years at the Folk School were fascinating. Most of the men--Serbs, Eastern European, Turks--had menial jobs, even the college educated. The Muslim women just were not integrating. Many of them were shy, or seemed unhappy at being there. One young husband spent weeks at his country bride's side, pleading for her to talk German. And the integration lessons were heavy handed and insensitive, such as lessons on why birth out of wedlock was not a problem at all. In general, I felt that the Germans, even the most well-meaning ones, had no real grasp of multiculturalism, and that there was only one way--the German way--and sensitivity to other cultural viewpoints did not exist.
My daughter's experience was much different. We managed to talk her into one of the gymnasiums, where with the help of a sympathetic teacher and a circle of girlfriends, she flourished. There were only a few--a very few--immigrant children in the school. They had all been shunted off to the Hochschule and Realschule tracks. My two years at the Folk School were fascinating. Most of the men--Serbs, Eastern European, Turks--had menial jobs, even the college educated. The Muslim women just were not integrating. Many of them were shy, or seemed unhappy at being there. One young husband spent weeks at his country bride's side, pleading for her to talk German. And the integration lessons were heavy handed and insensitive, such as lessons on why birth out of wedlock was not a problem at all. In general, I felt that the Germans, even the most well-meaning ones, had no real grasp of multiculturalism, and that there was only one way--the German way--and sensitivity to other cultural viewpoints did not exist.
23
I'm sorry but if you are an immigrant in Germany then the only way should be the German way!
As an immigrant, I've always felt it is a privilege to live in my host country - it is my responsibility to assimilate to it - not the other way around.
As an immigrant, I've always felt it is a privilege to live in my host country - it is my responsibility to assimilate to it - not the other way around.
27
My original response had to be brief. I did not mean that immigrants should not assimilate. The problem is that the integration courses in general were heavy handed to the point of being ineffective and alienating at times. Sensitivity to other mores can help. My tutor's husband, for example, help to set up an "Ethics" class so that students had more choices than to take the Catholic or Protestant classes that were practically mandatory at my daughter's gymnasium. A true multicultural society recognizes that simply saying there is only one way to do things is ineffective, and the Germans, as AM admitted a few years ago, have failed in the Multikulti society.
Gaeta,
In your initial comment you mentioned: ‘the integration lessons were heavy handed and insensitive, such as lessons on why birth out of wedlock was not a problem at all.’
If you are migrating to a country where birth out of wedlock is not a problem, then you probably should respect that. There will be many other ideas that may be hard for the new migrants to accept, such as: complete equality (including sexual freedom) of women, homosexuality, divorce, complete freedom of speech, interracial and interfaith marriages, females in leadership positions etc.
These are not ‘heavy handed and insensitive’ ideas – they are core freedoms that are essential in most Western societies.
In your initial comment you mentioned: ‘the integration lessons were heavy handed and insensitive, such as lessons on why birth out of wedlock was not a problem at all.’
If you are migrating to a country where birth out of wedlock is not a problem, then you probably should respect that. There will be many other ideas that may be hard for the new migrants to accept, such as: complete equality (including sexual freedom) of women, homosexuality, divorce, complete freedom of speech, interracial and interfaith marriages, females in leadership positions etc.
These are not ‘heavy handed and insensitive’ ideas – they are core freedoms that are essential in most Western societies.
7
Oh, and the young men we all saw last night throwing bricks at Hungarian riot police? Not to worry sayeth the NYT (albeit implicitly), they are just like Mr. Jasor and will totally integrate and become highly productive members of whatever European community will take them.
Boy, the Times reads more like a looking glass Fox News everyday
Boy, the Times reads more like a looking glass Fox News everyday
51
Five Hungarian policemen are still hospitalized, the result of that attack by the migrants.
I'd give anything to see you get off a boat with your family, fleeing a cemetery filled with the families of your neighbors, and having gates and barbed wire fences built in your face to keep you out, leaving you stuck in a new living hell after you had fought so hard and risked so much to escape your country. What kind of integration are you talking about? Treat people like dogs and they'll act like dogs - Hungary sows seeds of hate, but those people did not come with hate in their hearts. They know what hate is and if they retaliated with a few stones to a force of black garbed riot geared, tear gassing, Hungarian militia, that's because they still have a shred of dignity left and exhausted as they were they wanted to show they are still alive. God Bless them.
1
It can only be good for German cuisine.
13
Doing work by minorities in Europe (mainly from Turkey, Greece, Portugal, and Middle East) started around 1960, primarily in the Netherlands, Germany, Belgium, and France. The work involved basic professions like garbage pick up, prostitution, newspaper delivery, and car cleaning. The white Christian local people loved it not having to do the dirty work and understanding that all workers would leave Europe when they retired (got too decrepit to do this physical work); then the laws changed and such workers could stay in Europe and bring their wife and kids, go to school there, in short could fully integrate. This started around 1980 and since then constant conflicts (religious issues, stealing of cars, women hiding their face, and all-around-prostitution-for-lower-wages a real salary cut for Dutch and East European women). Conflicts have been brewing non-stop since then and from the moment Ms. Merkel's promised to accept some one million refugees in Germany alone the fear of god and racial discrimination towards non-Christians exploded this side of WW2. Europe has flunked "racial acceptance 101" (or perhaps they are realistic) and won't recover.
14
This sounds terribly racist. Immigrants, Children, students start at the bottom like all of us to learn and gain experience. As our skills grow, or not grow, we move up. Simply because one comes from another country, is brown, or is brown in a white country does not mean they automatically go to the top. Be fair. These immigrants chose to go there. Let them earn their place in the sun, don't punish those who are kind enough o let them join THEIR country And please, don't hid the truth behind women and children.
3
Um, I work with a Portuguese man and he considers himself to be "white" - also I would suspect that Turks and Greeks may be surprised that you don't appear to consider them white either.
Hmm... there are no "white Christian local people" working in those European countries either?? Hard to believe.
Hmm... there are no "white Christian local people" working in those European countries either?? Hard to believe.
1
This is utter madness. Why don't Germans work with unemployed youth from Greece or Spain or France? Those young people have as much education, and probably much more. They are easier to integrate. Just put adds in European newspapers and ask them to come, provide them with free German lessons and all the advantage you want to give non-europeans. Frankly, continuing on the policy of irrationality that Merkel is conducting will only bad very tragic results to Europe. How can Germany expect to be respected by other nations in Europe when they treat those migrants better than other Europeans, especially Greeks? Germany is destroying dialogue in Europe, whether they know it or not. Wake up Germany, stop trying to do your colossal new program on your own and sit at the table with your traditional partners and listen to them instead of forging ahead with your own plans that you have never told anyone about before and that don't make any sense to your partners!
54
For that matter, I am sure there are many Americans who would happily emigrate to Germany if offered a job, housing and German lessons.
53
1. German always love colossal projects regardless if it makes sense or not. It is a national trait. Chinese love colossal projects but German love them closed to the obsessed.
2. Illegal migrants are cheaper. Apprentice's pay are low and they cannot run back to their home country as the skill they learned in Germany are useless in their non-developed home country.
2. Illegal migrants are cheaper. Apprentice's pay are low and they cannot run back to their home country as the skill they learned in Germany are useless in their non-developed home country.
10
@ml: I am part German on my father's side. I took German in high school and got all As. I am publicly volunteering to emigrate to Germany under the condition that I get to choose the nicest and most pleasant city to live in -- get a FREE house to live in -- get free education for any children or grandchildren -- get free health care -- get free food -- and a nice allowance (I believe German hands out about $1500 per person a month, over and above housing & food).
I look forward to a very pleasant time in Germany. In fact, I will retire early to take advantage of this wonderful opportunity. At least, the German people can rest assured that I am not a terrorist, nor member of ISIS.
I look forward to a very pleasant time in Germany. In fact, I will retire early to take advantage of this wonderful opportunity. At least, the German people can rest assured that I am not a terrorist, nor member of ISIS.
14
He's 22 and learned German very quickly. That would suggest he's pretty sharp and atypical. Germany would have been better off conducting an immigration program in Afghanistan and picking the immigrants it wants as opposed to having an open door policy.
What happens if one of the refugees is a terrorist? Will the media turnaround and indict Merkel's policy or dismiss the terrorism as an aberration?
What happens if one of the refugees is a terrorist? Will the media turnaround and indict Merkel's policy or dismiss the terrorism as an aberration?
33
It is so angering to pay some of the highest taxes in the world so that we can have all these billion-euro anti-terrorist BS campaigns then have the gates of Europe flung wide open to whomever wants to come in.
16
What happens if one of the refugees is a terrorist? Well, what happens if a young native German man becomes a terrorist? What's the difference? Is it worth discriminating against millions of desparate women in children because of an illogical and racist understanding of risk?
Laughable line of article: "And not everyone has the requisite skills."
Yes, very unlikely that the rock-throwing, fire-igniting, angry and threatening young hoods stalled at the fence in Hungary are doctors, engineers, architects, or even simply decent citizen material.
Yes, very unlikely that the rock-throwing, fire-igniting, angry and threatening young hoods stalled at the fence in Hungary are doctors, engineers, architects, or even simply decent citizen material.
55
There's unwritten rule in life: take care of your own first. Bleeding hearts of Europe would do well to remember it. Less fortunate Europeans (ie unemployed) are going to feel betrayed and they won't forget.
43
It's about time we had something besides baseless opinions about how migrants are ungrateful, don't want to work, won't assimilate, and hate Europeans. Please let this be the beginning of a wave of articles by the NY Times talking about how migrants have adjusted to Europe, and how Europe has adjusted to them.
4
'...and how Europe has adjusted to them...'
It is the responsibility of the guest to adjust to the host, not the other way around.
Else they might seem ungrateful and entitled and we would not want that to happen, would we?
It is the responsibility of the guest to adjust to the host, not the other way around.
Else they might seem ungrateful and entitled and we would not want that to happen, would we?
13
You mean propaganda? Don't worry, it's coming!
6
What newspaper have you been reading? At the NYT, illegal immigrants swarming over borders are never, ever depicted as anything but a super-positive force, and only ignorant and racist ingrate natives raise objections to it. The NYT peddles this fairy tale day after day. You just haven't been reading the stories published here.
8
Learning German well enough to hold a skilled job or even a not so skilled job is a daunting task that takes years. Most of these economic migrants and refugees will not be able to do it.
The fact that large German companies have only hired a handful of Middle Eastern migrants speaks volumes.
I do not believe Germany has opened the doors wide to the many millions of Greek or other European unemployed people. The "we need workers" argument is, as usual, a ruse. That was the argument for bringing in millions of Turks as guest workers in the 50's and 60's. The government promised the German people it would be temporary and they would leave. Later, the government reneged on that promise to the German people and instead allowed the Turks to stay. Turks are not well integrated in German society and mostly remain a permanent underclass. There is a history of betrayal.
Immigrants are not economic cogs. They bring their culture, ethnic identity and values with them. Therefore, filling jobs (which are not truly available) is not a good reason to allow mass immigration of people from very alien, unrelated cultures who then remain visible minorities. To do so is to sacrifice the long-term good of one's own people for the sake of short-term profits. It raises GDP, but not in a good way. Such "growth" comes mostly from government payouts, which is then on the backs of the taxpayers. And it causes social alienation.
Germans need to have more of their own children, not immigrants.
The fact that large German companies have only hired a handful of Middle Eastern migrants speaks volumes.
I do not believe Germany has opened the doors wide to the many millions of Greek or other European unemployed people. The "we need workers" argument is, as usual, a ruse. That was the argument for bringing in millions of Turks as guest workers in the 50's and 60's. The government promised the German people it would be temporary and they would leave. Later, the government reneged on that promise to the German people and instead allowed the Turks to stay. Turks are not well integrated in German society and mostly remain a permanent underclass. There is a history of betrayal.
Immigrants are not economic cogs. They bring their culture, ethnic identity and values with them. Therefore, filling jobs (which are not truly available) is not a good reason to allow mass immigration of people from very alien, unrelated cultures who then remain visible minorities. To do so is to sacrifice the long-term good of one's own people for the sake of short-term profits. It raises GDP, but not in a good way. Such "growth" comes mostly from government payouts, which is then on the backs of the taxpayers. And it causes social alienation.
Germans need to have more of their own children, not immigrants.
91
Ones "own people" seems to not only be defined by border and blood. The human race is one we all share; it's difficult to see this migration in any other terms. Economic realities are not the only realities and being a "minority" isn't the worse thing in the world, as all those buried in the rubble of Syria would gladly tell you. Whatever Germany's "reasons" for opening their country to these migrants, the bottom line is that EVERY human being has an obligation to these people whom we watch suffer. I watch Hungary actions and think, who would rally to help these people guarding the "Christian" land - I think Christ himself would pass them over in favor of the migrants coming off the boats. I know I would. I can't see how Hungary will be in a better position than Germany, ever, even if everyone in Hungary has a "job." They've shown themselves to be a hateful culture; protecting what no wants any part of, least of all the migrants.
I agree. Canada did that by giving the baby bonus for each child to the age of 18 to encourage Canadian families to have more children. It is extremely economical and non-disruptive. Wealthy people sometimes declined to cash it. That is by far a better answer to the need for more population. Bringing people with undesirable cultural and religious baggage brings resentment and conflict. A terrible choice. The most peaceful and successful societies tend to be homogeneous, especially when they are very advanced. This multicultural and multi ethnic experiments hasn't yielded good results. Everybody pays for the consequences of these bad decisions.
1
Most of these people will be living in poverty in a wealthy country, and will soon come to resent the disparity. A small percentage will succeed and assimilate. There will be no motivation to learn the German language, as they will live in neighborhoods where they don't need to. This isn't a prophetic prediction, it's what has happened already in the U.S. and in many other countries.
55
But here in Seattle we also have migrants and many of them are eager to learn English and work. Our schools and factories and farms have work for them. It is not an easy life but many make it.
Without immigrants we would not have Amazon, Nordstrom, Costco, not to mention many wineries and farms. Somehow being a high immigration state has not made us a poor state. We are just behind Arizona in immigrants as a share of population (over 13%) but we also have a huge percentage of immigrants as business owners (15%).
Everyone was once an immigrant, even the Native American tribes here. We all are managing to make it or not.
As for the headscarves comments below... Their daughters will decide. So far we are not seeing headscarves passed down more than one generation in most rich countries. The "traditional" men might oppose the change but I say welcome, sister--wear what makes you comfortable, come for tea, and have you signed your daughter up for the robotics club after school? No? Let me help you.
I believe humanism can conquer all kinds of prejudice. I'm not naive. I am living proof.
Without immigrants we would not have Amazon, Nordstrom, Costco, not to mention many wineries and farms. Somehow being a high immigration state has not made us a poor state. We are just behind Arizona in immigrants as a share of population (over 13%) but we also have a huge percentage of immigrants as business owners (15%).
Everyone was once an immigrant, even the Native American tribes here. We all are managing to make it or not.
As for the headscarves comments below... Their daughters will decide. So far we are not seeing headscarves passed down more than one generation in most rich countries. The "traditional" men might oppose the change but I say welcome, sister--wear what makes you comfortable, come for tea, and have you signed your daughter up for the robotics club after school? No? Let me help you.
I believe humanism can conquer all kinds of prejudice. I'm not naive. I am living proof.
38
You are an exception. Unfortunately, not the rule.
2
Would you consider England a "Rich" country ? If so, please go and visit towns like Oldham, Leicester, and the eastern boroughs of London, and you will see that the men wear jeans and T-Shirts, and the women, who must now be third generation, still wearing their saris, hijabs, and niqabs.
16
Any group of humans which requires females cover their bodies head to foot (a shaming device) is never going to adapt to free and independent thought. There will be no assimilation. Males who require women to veil themselves will never accept the unveiled Western female. Islam is a prop for the male ego and is the source of its strength.
(Where's Charles Martel when you need him?)
(Where's Charles Martel when you need him?)
68
Women cover up in Islam for the same reason women dress modestly in America, but more so. It is not a shaming device. Most Syrians, by the way, do not veil at all. The way they dress is rather like nuns in our country. I don't remember anybody claiming that the Catholic church was shaming its nuns. Historically speaking, they dress very much like the pilgrim women. Were we shaming them?
Get a grip.
Get a grip.
4
Best not to bring up the Catholic Church when discussing treatment of women, as the misogyny of the Church is legion.
And yes, nuns were covered head to toe because women's bodies were considered 'shameful' and too tempting for men to resist raping, the same as in every fundamentalist religion, including Islam.
Notice the migrant men are in tee shirts and jeans in the heat, while the women suffer.
Despicable that anyone would defend this practice, much less a man.
And yes, nuns were covered head to toe because women's bodies were considered 'shameful' and too tempting for men to resist raping, the same as in every fundamentalist religion, including Islam.
Notice the migrant men are in tee shirts and jeans in the heat, while the women suffer.
Despicable that anyone would defend this practice, much less a man.
13
Social history concerning the link between interpersonal etiquette and fashion (Elias and others) suggests that, in some cases, how modestly women dress reflects prevailing norms governing how others conduct themselves toward women. In contemporary US society, e.g., women can be safely fairly scantily clad in public b/c they don't have to fear being preyed upon or raped, and vice versa.
5
A perfect NYT story about an ideal immigrant fitting in perfectly. Now, how about a profile of the guys throwing rocks and lighting fires at the border or the guy with four wives and 18 kids. You don't even have to travel, take a subway to the southeast corner of Prospect Park East and you'll find plenty of subjects.
92
We Europeans (French and Italians among others) were given the same talk about the Roma after the Schengen treaty entered into force: their language is very close to French and Italian (just totally incomprehensible to French or Italian speakers), they will easily integrate, they're poor people segregated and exploited in their own countries (Romania and Bulgaria), they just want to work and find decent jobs and bla bla bla.
Ten years later it has become evident (save for those who live with eyes closed) that the ultimate goal of the Roma is not to work but to live at the expenses of any society they happen to be in. Sure, they know the fine art of begging and pick pocketing and making many children which will allow them to get benefits but not one single of them (don't even mention women) is employable.
Have a look here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dibrani_case and it will give you an indication why the French have had more than their share of compassion and patience with so-called refugees.
But of course, it's so easy to blame the evil French, Italians, Britons, you name them.
''Living with eyes closed, misunderstanding what you see'' as J. Lennon wrote.
Ten years later it has become evident (save for those who live with eyes closed) that the ultimate goal of the Roma is not to work but to live at the expenses of any society they happen to be in. Sure, they know the fine art of begging and pick pocketing and making many children which will allow them to get benefits but not one single of them (don't even mention women) is employable.
Have a look here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dibrani_case and it will give you an indication why the French have had more than their share of compassion and patience with so-called refugees.
But of course, it's so easy to blame the evil French, Italians, Britons, you name them.
''Living with eyes closed, misunderstanding what you see'' as J. Lennon wrote.
98
The .01% could care less about the people, as they live in gated communities and ride in limousines.
6
English workers were told the same about the open borders. The government said that they expected 3000-5000 people to come into England. Well even a conservative estimate would say that 900,000 polish people came. They mostly work construction jobs and have undercut the native British worker for contracts. The result is a lowering of wages in the construction industry. Of course this has meant great profit for the companies and industry, but has bred great resentment among the working people.
6
Yes by all means throw the Roma (a European problem population for centuries) in the same category of an entire nation of refugees fleeing civial war. You know Syria was a modern, relatively globalized state right? Buy why bother with such mundane things a relevent details when you can simply paint millions with a broad xenophobic brush.
This link states that unemployment among males under 25 in Germany was 7.8% in July 2015. Fairly high.
http://countryeconomy.com/unemployment/germany
Admitting hundreds of thousands of economic migrants sounds misguided.
http://countryeconomy.com/unemployment/germany
Admitting hundreds of thousands of economic migrants sounds misguided.
48
So this is why Germany opened the door: cheap labor.
This is really really unfair to any German, or any migrant that was already there and looking for a job. They remain unemployed while Germany imports workers.
This is really really unfair to any German, or any migrant that was already there and looking for a job. They remain unemployed while Germany imports workers.
44
German capitalists are replicating the American model of importing cheap and more often illegal labor.
23
@Pilgrim - Absolutely - under the guise of "compassion" or "humanitarian". Now, like in the U.S., any opposition articulated against massive influxes of unskilled labor can be dismissed as "racism" and "xenophobia".
The REAL problem is that global elites find their own native citizen population as too "uppity" and like the idea of importing supposedly docile foreigners into their countries for cheap labor.
The REAL problem is that global elites find their own native citizen population as too "uppity" and like the idea of importing supposedly docile foreigners into their countries for cheap labor.
2
read about Sweden where 60% of immigrants are unemployed despite everything the nation tries to do for them.
77
They should be able to export them. A country has limits.
10
Most such economic immigrants have no intention of every working, or even of learning the language. They are content to live on welfare, while laughing at the naive stupidity of their hosts -- and the young are often fermenting rebellion.
Just wait until Germany has 2 million YOUNG MUSLIM MEN under 30, most of whom have no jobs and don't speak German and hate "corrupt Western culture".
Just wait until Germany has 2 million YOUNG MUSLIM MEN under 30, most of whom have no jobs and don't speak German and hate "corrupt Western culture".
5
Who are we not talking about? The native German workers who have had to struggle to find jobs that can pay the bills. They are being thrown under the bus in order to please an appeal to emotion.
84
Are the German workers struggling to find jobs?
1
This is true. Average worker wages have stagnated in Germany since the turn of the millennium, this can only ensure that trend continues.
34
Did you really just ask that question?
Unemployment in the EU is 10.5%, in Germany is 4.5%
Go tell those guys how they really should not have had an issue getting a job. Where is your bleeding heart for them?
Unemployment in the EU is 10.5%, in Germany is 4.5%
Go tell those guys how they really should not have had an issue getting a job. Where is your bleeding heart for them?
10
It is normal to be fearful when folks with nothing appear at your door and need to be fed, clothed, housed and employed en masse. Folks in that situation however, are desperate enough to work very hard, follow the rules and be excellent neighbors, taking jobs others do not want. Mexican migrants working the fields of the USA is an excellent example. What folks initially perceive as a 'problem' can become a blessing very quickly when given a chance.
6
Only 1% of all illegal aliens in the US work in agriculture of any kind. This is not 1955. Most illegals are NOT working stoop labor in the fields. (And you'd be surprised, about half of such workers are US citizens, not illegals.)
99% of illegals work at the same jobs that Americans can do, did do and want to do -- construction, trucking, meatpacking, restaurant and food service, child care, landscaping, elder care, etc.
They are not "jobs that nobody wants". You are just a NYC snob. LOTS of Americans want such jobs, but cannot get them because of the massive influx of illegal aliens.
99% of illegals work at the same jobs that Americans can do, did do and want to do -- construction, trucking, meatpacking, restaurant and food service, child care, landscaping, elder care, etc.
They are not "jobs that nobody wants". You are just a NYC snob. LOTS of Americans want such jobs, but cannot get them because of the massive influx of illegal aliens.
5
If they burn down your fence to be at your front door would you still say they'd make good neighbors?
'...What folks initially perceive as a 'problem' can become a blessing very quickly when given a chance...'
Since the four decades have passed since the first Reagan amnesty, the once rising African American middle and working class has been decimated. I doubt any of those people see the competition as 'a blessing'.
No country, or family, for that matter, can thrive if they first do not take care of their own.
Since the four decades have passed since the first Reagan amnesty, the once rising African American middle and working class has been decimated. I doubt any of those people see the competition as 'a blessing'.
No country, or family, for that matter, can thrive if they first do not take care of their own.
4
These refugees will be a boon to Germany's demographic progress which, if unaddressed, will put Germany's economic world position in dire jeopardy.
Immigration works, but the institutional determination has to be there to make it work. Starting with explicitly doing away with any de facto discrimination based on religion, ethnicity, gender and sexual orientation. And being willing to go out of the comfort zone to hire and work with people that don't look like you.
I conflict that those European countries that thrive on xenophobia - these countries wil have nthing but xenophobia to thrive on.
Immigration works, but the institutional determination has to be there to make it work. Starting with explicitly doing away with any de facto discrimination based on religion, ethnicity, gender and sexual orientation. And being willing to go out of the comfort zone to hire and work with people that don't look like you.
I conflict that those European countries that thrive on xenophobia - these countries wil have nthing but xenophobia to thrive on.
16
Younger, educated adults will have the easiest time integrating and thriving in new countries, as well as kids, of course, who find it much easier to learn new languages and cultural norms. Middle-aged adults may struggle. Women may struggle if they stay too much in the home, don't try to learn the language or work outside the home. Older people will need lifetime support, I guess.
4
Germany is expecting 800,000 - 1,000,000 arrivals. It is not expecting to accept all of them – many have already been deported. At last estimate, it expected to approve of 500,000 applications. 500,000 would therefore be a much better representation of the number of refugees / migrants expected to stay and need to be integrated into the German economy. I do not understand why some of the Anglo-American media continue to cite these higher numbers when they're not representative of what the media claim.
2
You really believe the Germans will deport half a million people? Please join us in the real world.
15
That is way too many.
6
Making sure that those who are not granted any status to stay in Germany actually leave the country is an unpleasant, difficult and costly business. Of the roughly 200,000 applicants last year about 65,000 were granted a status that allowed them to stay in Germany. That leaves 135,000 people. Of those only about 11,000 were actually deported. Deportation is a huge problem already and will only get more complex with higher numbers of asylum seekers.
13
Another incredibly biased article from the Times. Absolutely zero mention of how this will affect German citizens, uses the word "steal jobs" in scare quotes as if the idea of foreigners coming in and taking less pay and driving down wages is some laughable notion, and quoting one skeptical person (Marine LePen) with a one line quote and immediately labeling her "far-right" so naturally her opinion is to be disregarded. Simply put, the Times does not care about the citizens of the countries being the invaded--it only cares that every single person from the Third World who wishes to illegally immigrate to the West be allowed to do so and to be welcomed with open arms.
Further, one questions the facts behind this anecdote purporting to show that mass migration is something to be excited about: how did the Times come to find out about this young man who "proves" the Times pain of view on this invasion? Was he spoon-fed to the Times by one of the radical NGOs which support massive illegal immigration? Did the Times go to one of these NGOs with a request for a "successful" migrant to profile to "prove" that its POV is, in fact, correct? Please advise how this story came to be.
Further, one questions the facts behind this anecdote purporting to show that mass migration is something to be excited about: how did the Times come to find out about this young man who "proves" the Times pain of view on this invasion? Was he spoon-fed to the Times by one of the radical NGOs which support massive illegal immigration? Did the Times go to one of these NGOs with a request for a "successful" migrant to profile to "prove" that its POV is, in fact, correct? Please advise how this story came to be.
127
Time for a multiple-choice question. Which previous migration to (or within) Germany is the most similar to the current wave from the Middle East?
a) The "reunification of East and West Germany."
b) "Germany's previous absorption of European migrants."
c) "“Guest worker” programs bringing Turks and others to fill factory labor shortages."
To her credit, the reporter sets off c) by noting that "it has not always worked seamlessly" and that it "stoked friction and gave rise to ethnic enclaves," conclusions also drawn by a German Fulbright scholar:
"According to recent research on cultural consumption patterns, most members of Turkish communities consider themselves Turks, and only 3 percent perceive themselves as fully German. By and large the command of the German language is inferior to the command of Turkish. The preference for Turkish books and music is much higher than for German cultural products. It is noteworthy that this preference persists among 2nd generation German-Turks that have a better grasp of the German language."
"However, this “economic integration” does not apply to a fairly large proportion of the Turkish minority in Germany, which has become a dependent, underclass
population. This underclass survives through public welfare and the resources
of their communities and is a constant irritant to many native Germans."
http://www.fulbright.de/fileadmin/files/togermany/information/2005-06/gs...
Is Merkel as naive as she appears?
a) The "reunification of East and West Germany."
b) "Germany's previous absorption of European migrants."
c) "“Guest worker” programs bringing Turks and others to fill factory labor shortages."
To her credit, the reporter sets off c) by noting that "it has not always worked seamlessly" and that it "stoked friction and gave rise to ethnic enclaves," conclusions also drawn by a German Fulbright scholar:
"According to recent research on cultural consumption patterns, most members of Turkish communities consider themselves Turks, and only 3 percent perceive themselves as fully German. By and large the command of the German language is inferior to the command of Turkish. The preference for Turkish books and music is much higher than for German cultural products. It is noteworthy that this preference persists among 2nd generation German-Turks that have a better grasp of the German language."
"However, this “economic integration” does not apply to a fairly large proportion of the Turkish minority in Germany, which has become a dependent, underclass
population. This underclass survives through public welfare and the resources
of their communities and is a constant irritant to many native Germans."
http://www.fulbright.de/fileadmin/files/togermany/information/2005-06/gs...
Is Merkel as naive as she appears?
66
No, she isn't. The older generation needed us Jews and Poles to do the hard work, and apparently their contemporaries have found themselves another demographic to do the low paying jobs that normal Germans don't want to do.
Of course, it makes it hard to assimilate when the favorite national food is currywurst (pork sausage with curry ketchup) :)
Of course, it makes it hard to assimilate when the favorite national food is currywurst (pork sausage with curry ketchup) :)
2
I don't think much effort had been made to integrate the Turks during the "guest worker" program. To the contrary.
It all looks typically Germanic: hands-on, shoulders-to-the-wheel, practical stuff, done as soon as possible. No wonder so many of the current batch of migrants want to go there. Germany is leading by example. Too bad the rest of Europe can't emulate them, or doesn't want to. It costs money to feed, house and train all these individuals. Many of Europe's nations simply don't have the economic resources to make such impressive programs for new citizens.
24
"Germany — with Europe’s biggest economy, an aging population and more than a half-million jobs currently unfilled — sees the migration wave as not only a challenge but an opportunity."
What perplexes me is that while unemployment soars in Greece, why don't Greeks migrate to Germany in search for jobs? Being in EU, I'd think it'd be much easier for Greeks to migrate.
What perplexes me is that while unemployment soars in Greece, why don't Greeks migrate to Germany in search for jobs? Being in EU, I'd think it'd be much easier for Greeks to migrate.
33
They do, but now i guess these Afghans and Syrians will be put at the front of the queue...
35
Germany was already flooded by many many people from Spain or Greece in the last couple of years.
9
Fritz is correct. I was standing at a few Sbahn or Ubahn stops in Berlin the prior winter and I was surprised that everyone around me was speaking Spanish...
6
'...Of the migrants who settled in Germany from 1985 to 2013, for example, 73 percent of men and 48 percent of women wound up working...'
Which means that 27% of the men and 52% of the women will be a burden to society for the rest of their lives.
Good plan.
Which means that 27% of the men and 52% of the women will be a burden to society for the rest of their lives.
Good plan.
52
If the women don't work to stay and raise children, and there are men supporting them, as we used to be able to do in the US, the rates for women are not so bad, especially if that 52% is all retirement, youth or childbearing years. But 27% of the men is egregious.
Before you get too excited, you must realize that many of those 27% are elderly, and not necessarily in a good position to be employed, and most of the 52% of women would be very productively taking care of children and household affairs - not sipping schnapps on the curb. One must also recognize that recent arrivals might still be in jobs training or school, and so cannot yet be counted as working.
But of course, you want to believe that some people are inferior, so facts will not persuade you, no matter how good they are.
But of course, you want to believe that some people are inferior, so facts will not persuade you, no matter how good they are.
Workforce participation in the US is 62.4%. That means that 37.6% are not working. Among men, it is 70.2% employed and 29.8% not. What are we, super-duper egregious?
1
The elites that make these policy decisions will not be paying the price.
They don't have to compete for housing, school places or jobs.
It is the working class who will pay.
They don't have to compete for housing, school places or jobs.
It is the working class who will pay.
90
Bingo! Working Germans probably see this as just another hurdle being thrown in their way by their own Government.
21
This is very positive. Also as an example for the rest of Europe. Of course you need to have jobs available first, but in Europe not only Germany has them, at least the entry level ones. Some of the unemployment down here is related to strenuous physical requirements of some available positions (small building contractors are prime example), suitable only for healthy young people.
18
Britain has two million unemployed, mostly in the industrial north, one million illegal immigrants it cannot find and deport, eight million foreign residents already, a met migration of 330,000, the highest on record, the most congested city in Europe in London, and a rapidly sagging National Health Service. It doesn't have the lowest birth rate in the world. It is stocked to the ceiling with Eastern European migrants who for the last 25 years have managed to undercut the wages of the local working classes. Tell us why the UK should take in one more economic migrant.
36
Because I want to see the net profit margins of my stock portfolio go up. Duh!
6
Elizabeth Renant: obviously it is up to the UK people, how they want to organize their labor market.
In May 2015 in the UK the proportion of people aged from 16 to 64 in work (the employment rate) was 73.5%, the highest since comparable records began in 1971. Comparing January to March 2015 with a year earlier, pay for employees in Great Britain increased by 1.9% including bonuses and by 2.2% excluding bonuses. So it looks to me Britain is winning the way it is now.
Source: http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/lms/labour-market-statistics/may-2015/stat...
In May 2015 in the UK the proportion of people aged from 16 to 64 in work (the employment rate) was 73.5%, the highest since comparable records began in 1971. Comparing January to March 2015 with a year earlier, pay for employees in Great Britain increased by 1.9% including bonuses and by 2.2% excluding bonuses. So it looks to me Britain is winning the way it is now.
Source: http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/lms/labour-market-statistics/may-2015/stat...
I was reading this article in the New Yorker about this guy in Berlin who opened his house to...refugees? migrants? anyway, here is an excerpt:
"“I thought, ‘I have one hundred and twenty square meters for myself, I have enough space,’ ” said Tölke, who specializes in writing about luxury goods. “I work at home, but there’s availability.”
Half an hour later, three Egyptians, a Bosnian teenager, and a Moldovan rang his bell. "
So, while I applaud the generosity, I can't help noticing: 3 Egyptians, a Bosnian and a Moldovan?!
This is not a refugee crisis, this is an invasion from every third world country on Earth.
"“I thought, ‘I have one hundred and twenty square meters for myself, I have enough space,’ ” said Tölke, who specializes in writing about luxury goods. “I work at home, but there’s availability.”
Half an hour later, three Egyptians, a Bosnian teenager, and a Moldovan rang his bell. "
So, while I applaud the generosity, I can't help noticing: 3 Egyptians, a Bosnian and a Moldovan?!
This is not a refugee crisis, this is an invasion from every third world country on Earth.
151
Exactly. Also, one has to wonder why Saudi Arabia has offered to build two hundred mosques in Germany but has not taken in one single refugee???
3
You need to get out more. There are hundreds of countries on our planet, not just four or five
You quote entirely out of context. Readers should see the entire article at the New Yorker.
It is striking how many comments show a terrible lack of empathy.
It is striking how many comments show a terrible lack of empathy.
This is hilarious. German citizens who may be having a hard time landing a job are pushed aside to make way for Muslims who are not German citizens. Sounds like Germany's H1B Visa program to me.
The time has come for Germany and the US to say NO to illegal migrants who only seek economic opportunities. Do you really want people in your country who rather flee then fight for a better life in their own countries? Such cowards have no place in the West, especially when these illegal migrants practice a religion that preaches death to Westerners across the globe.
The time has come for Germany and the US to say NO to illegal migrants who only seek economic opportunities. Do you really want people in your country who rather flee then fight for a better life in their own countries? Such cowards have no place in the West, especially when these illegal migrants practice a religion that preaches death to Westerners across the globe.
107
What do you know about German citizens who 'may be having a hard time landing a job'? You have no clue about that country and its people, obviously. Those poor migrants are fleeing death and mayhem. They're just trying to flee to an environment where no bombs rain down upon them and where they are not gassed by their own government. Those people don't see 'economic opportunities' they merely seek survival.
6
Yeah, death and mayhem in Turkey, Greece and Italy. Such horrible places....
29
Good lord. You need to start taking a look at the poster who mentioned the Moldavians and Egyptians who showed up when he opened his home to refugees. They weren't Syrians fleeing bombs. They were Third World occupants looking for a free ride into a nicer country. You are exhibiting incredible naivete.
29
I applaud the pragmatic German approach towards rapid assimilation.
Notice that they are not bogged down in prejudicial and backwards thinking such as “These people are unemployable, have a poor work ethic, come from broken homes, blah, blah , blah.”
No, they see a problem and they attempt to solve it!
Maybe the Germans would be willing to be lead consultants with the US over its unwillingness /inertia /inability to do the same with the vast underclass inhabiting places like Detroit, Ferguson, Baltimore, DC ………
Notice that they are not bogged down in prejudicial and backwards thinking such as “These people are unemployable, have a poor work ethic, come from broken homes, blah, blah , blah.”
No, they see a problem and they attempt to solve it!
Maybe the Germans would be willing to be lead consultants with the US over its unwillingness /inertia /inability to do the same with the vast underclass inhabiting places like Detroit, Ferguson, Baltimore, DC ………
6
Excuse me have you been to Berlin? Have you seen the Turkish ghetto ? Are you aware the Germans already have priblems assimilating the Turkish guest workers they already have ? The ones that currently have high unemployment on state benefits. This is another spin by the nyt. A handful of people have been hired and this becomes big news.
82
In the first place, Kreuzberg is not a ghetto. Be careful of your choice of words! Secondly, the situation vis a vis the Turks is different: The waves of Turks came into Germany as Guest Workers who were expected to leave once the boom ended and who themselves viewed their residency in Germany as temporary. As a result, there was no incentive either to assimilate or to encourage assimilation. But the German government has learned from that experience, and now pushes for immigrants to fully assimilate into German society. That entails learning the language, learning about the culture, and learning about the political system.
5
Germany is learning from its past mistakes. Turkish guest workers were not properly integrated because it was assumed they would leave eventually. Five decades later, their children and grand-children - four million of them - are much better integrated and many are thriving, but on average they still lag in economic mobility and education. In order to avoid repeating that mistake, teaching the refugees German and quickly integrating them in the work force is imperative. The fact that the refugees are far from homogenous as a group is actually an advantage in that regard. Integration is definitely a challenge, but it's far from impossible. For the moment most Germans, from big money to local churches, mosques and neighborhood organizations, seem to be pulling in the same direction. There will be failures and problems, but overall the country stands to benefit tremendously, culturally and economically.
8
"benefit tremendously, culturally and economically"
Hmm. Germany stands to benefit from Middle East Muslim culture? Germany stands to benefit from having to support millions of people who don't speak the language and are unskilled? I'm going to have to think about that one...
Hmm. Germany stands to benefit from Middle East Muslim culture? Germany stands to benefit from having to support millions of people who don't speak the language and are unskilled? I'm going to have to think about that one...
82
Surely my stock portfolio will benefit from higher profits. Who cares about the blue collar people, let them eat cake.
7
If the Germans succeed in assimilating new migrants, much will be due to their insistence on all residents learning to speak German and there rigorous existing job training programs.
Germans fluent in English is almost universal but Germany is not a multilingual country by any stretch. You live there, you learn German.
Job training is also non-negotiable. There is very little tolerance for not working.
Those qualties are worth emulating.
Germans fluent in English is almost universal but Germany is not a multilingual country by any stretch. You live there, you learn German.
Job training is also non-negotiable. There is very little tolerance for not working.
Those qualties are worth emulating.
28
Maybe some will get jobs and integrate quickly, no-one disputes this. But Mr Jasor is not typical. He represents the top 5% of migrants, and is clearly a useful prop of the NYTimes editorial angle to this issue. The vast majority will have no useful training and will take decades to learn German, if they are motivated. Which is a very big if. They get their welfare checks whether they learn German or not. No the sad truth is the vast majority of these people will be on welfare for the rest of their lives, and be a massive drain on Germany for decades.
And there's a more critical point. The Germans are encouraging lawlessness. If they want immigrants, they can take them directly from the asylum camps, or let them apply the same way an engineer from Brazil, China or India gets a job in Germany. Its almost like they are giving a prize for trampling across a number of safe European countries and disregarding the rule of law. The Germans are the root cause of this chaos.
And there's a more critical point. The Germans are encouraging lawlessness. If they want immigrants, they can take them directly from the asylum camps, or let them apply the same way an engineer from Brazil, China or India gets a job in Germany. Its almost like they are giving a prize for trampling across a number of safe European countries and disregarding the rule of law. The Germans are the root cause of this chaos.
251
"Its almost like they are giving a prize for trampling across a number of safe European countries and disregarding the rule of law."
They do not come to germany for a job. But a job is essential to give their life a purpose, and to pay back for this purpose.
They do not come to germany for a job. But a job is essential to give their life a purpose, and to pay back for this purpose.
7
You can bet all at least 50% (the women) will not be working.
19
Caezar,
Your pointing out the encouragement of lawlessness is exactly correct, and the cause of it is shameful.
Your pointing out the encouragement of lawlessness is exactly correct, and the cause of it is shameful.
17
"Germany is pushing for migrants to get into work as quickly as possible to speed their assimilation into German society, despite fears that migrants will “steal” jobs or lower wages. "
There are those that then wonder why so many of those German workers endorse xenophobia and extremist parties. Is it any wonder?
There are those that then wonder why so many of those German workers endorse xenophobia and extremist parties. Is it any wonder?
43
About 2 percent (at the previous national elections). Nearly 5 % for a conservative party who would just be a tiny bit to the left to say Mr Bush.
It is not as positive as depicted.
Frank-Jürgen Weise, head of the Federal Employment Agency, told the FAZ, the leading German Newspaper: "The arrival of hundreds of thousands first of all puts a strain on the labor market," He expected noticeable rising unemployment 2016.
Germany has a some shortages in highly skilled, highly specialized workers, but no shortages in university graduates (some 15 to 20% of the immigrants) or unskilled labor (about half),
It is quite remarkable that it is, nevertheless, welcoming those refugees.
Wrong?
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Frank-Jürgen Weise, head of the Federal Employment Agency, told the FAZ, the leading German Newspaper: "The arrival of hundreds of thousands first of all puts a strain on the labor market," He expected noticeable rising unemployment 2016.
Germany has a some shortages in highly skilled, highly specialized workers, but no shortages in university graduates (some 15 to 20% of the immigrants) or unskilled labor (about half),
It is quite remarkable that it is, nevertheless, welcoming those refugees.
Wrong?
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17
"as well as many asylum-seekers who have arrived from Syria, are educated and bring employable skills"...when the war is over in Syria,Afhganistan,Libya etc. these countries need to be rebuilt,if most of these skilled people don´t intend to return back home (and the vast majority will not return with the prospect of more rewarding careers in Europe) how can these countries be rebuilt? We are condemning these countries to be deserted,depressed and sources for later problems.Even Mr. Sarkozy,the former french President,is changing approach: those who get asylum will have to return back home after their countries are stabilized.More,there are many millions unemployed in Europe,many young,skilled people(Spain,Greece,Italy,Romania,Bulgaria,Hungary with 15% to 30% unemployment rate),logically,europeans should have priority.
85
Europeans have priority to non-EU citizens already. European law. Tey again.
"Of the 95 immigrants housed in the complex Mr. Jasor was one of the few who had a job". This does not bode well for Germany, with one million immigrants arriving this year. And after the one million immigrants are allowed to bring in their various relatives, thus magnifying the problem exponentially……?
164
You do not have the right to bring your relatives, if you are an asylum-seeker or refugee.
It sounds like they are going to make life easier for these new arrivals. And their genius for efficiency will help these unfortunate people become mainstreamed as quickly as possible.
And yes, please stop using the word "migrant"—so colonial sounding and condescending, right up there with "The New York Times Neediest Cases Fund"!
And yes, please stop using the word "migrant"—so colonial sounding and condescending, right up there with "The New York Times Neediest Cases Fund"!
1
What other word for migrant do you suggest we use for... migrants? They left safe countries to migrate to greener pastures. I trust you don't intend to use the label refugee to describe such behavior? That would seriously degrade precision of language.
60
If they are refusing asylum in Denmark because the benefits package paid for by Danish taxpayers just isn't attractive enough for them, and insist on being taken to Sweden, instead, they aren't refugees: they are migrants. Swedens most popular political party now is a far right one that verges on neo-Nazism. I assure you, its rising popularity is precisely because of the countrys experience with its experiment in multiculturalism. Try a walk around Malmo - unless you are obviously identifiably as Jewish, in which case you should avoid the area. Then we can discuss the poor refugees.
24
They are migrants. That is what they are doing, migrating. Migrations from stable states where they fled to as refugees. When they left Turkey for their destination of choice they stopped being refugees and started being migrants.
24
Thank you for this article. People will, say, but that's only "one"...look at the teeming hoards. But this response by Germany has it right. By and large these are individuals and families looking for safety and a better life: show them how it's done, give them pride in earning their keep, in watching their children flourish, and integration and appreciation will likely follow. Hungary with its barbed wire and water canons got wrong.
4
So few remember the facts but that Germany is a peaceful, wealthy and the most successful of the post war democracies which replaced the awful tyranical and brutal dictatorships of prewar and wartime Europe, is all due to the efforts of the British and the US-. Yes: getting the US congress and people to decide to join in a "world wide war against fascism", the second such great war in a mere quarter century, must have seemed literally like pulling teeth from a recalcitrant , hard mouthed wild horse. For every conceivable reason, Americans wanted no part of another great war which, we thought, would again eat up , chew up and spit into graves hundreds of thousands of our finest young men before they ever had a chance at life. The idea that America and Not the British Empire was in any way responsible for every single individual on the face of planet Earth, seemed an absurd and a fever dream. After three and a half years of bloody war and hundreds of thousands of deaths-America accepted the idea that , along with Britain ,we were stuck with the world and had better get used to working the levers.
All theose who now take for granted that they can travel to Germany , become Germans, get jobs working there, perhaps see their kids grow up educated like German kids; all have the US and Britain, as well as part of the UN we established, to thank, for building a world order where they are no longer merely the subjects of their governments.
Remember us, too.
All theose who now take for granted that they can travel to Germany , become Germans, get jobs working there, perhaps see their kids grow up educated like German kids; all have the US and Britain, as well as part of the UN we established, to thank, for building a world order where they are no longer merely the subjects of their governments.
Remember us, too.
10
Combining apprenticeship programs with sensible labour needs is a great strategy. The USA might do the same.
27
Part of the political correctness doctrine is denial of the fact that aptitude and intelligence are distributed in the population, leading to the assumption that anyone can become a neurosurgeon or particle physicist, and thus to the conclusion that we should have universal college education. Of course, to enable a person of average motivation and IQ of 85 to complete a baccalaureate will require significant lowering of the educational standards. No problem! And, besides, since we don't manufacture anything, and throw away things instead of repairing them, there will be no need for trades or craftsmanship.
3
Not just might but should as not everyone has the capability to go to college. Btw, community colleges are not sufficient. Industry needs to come to the fore to offer apprenticeships.
1
In times of crisis leaders act, they don't just talk. Germany keeps standing up to the challenges and leads by example. i.e. reunification of Germany, economic aid to Greece (they are the main lenders) and now the acceptance of war refugees in vast number. Tip of the hat Deutschland you keep growing stronger by your venerable actions.
43
And Canada has taken how many migrants?
Most interesting in how many Canadians are supportive of other countries accepting a massive influx of migrants, as they sit home safely across an ocean.
Most interesting in how many Canadians are supportive of other countries accepting a massive influx of migrants, as they sit home safely across an ocean.
5
Seventy years after the end of World War II it's ironic that Germany is setting an example for the US in both economics and common decency.
5
3 cheers for Germany. Their migrants are like all those who came to America tfor many years in waves including our illegals from Central America now.
Teaching them to learn German quickly is very smart; they can be productive sooner and get off 'the dole'. Unlike our Hispanic migrants, who are not compelled to learn English, they want to learn German, get a job and
participate in their new country--not live in ghettos as the Turks did.
Teaching them to learn German quickly is very smart; they can be productive sooner and get off 'the dole'. Unlike our Hispanic migrants, who are not compelled to learn English, they want to learn German, get a job and
participate in their new country--not live in ghettos as the Turks did.
7
Refugee crisis is a glaring example of how German democracy is hijacked by collusion of Politician, Media, Courts, Leftist, Saudi Petro Dollar, Human Right Activist and Environmentalist. It is biggest game plan to destroy European Values of Freedom and Liberty. German Politician are evidently indifferent to the wishes of people of Germany. Same mistake India had committed in 1947 for which we are still paying the prices. These population never assimilate with main stream and will create problems for free thinking society.
79
While I agree with your initial statement I beg to differ about the India`s example . After the partition in 1947 people from both religion were given choice to go to country of their choice . The muslims who stayed back were the once who called India as their home and there is no doubt India is still their home .
FYI, the German chancellor, Merkel, leader of the Conservative Christian party, is now in her third term in office. And I do not quite understand your remarks re India. Prior to 1947 you were part of the British Empire.
Its so foolish to think that these people will assimilate. Look at the Somalians in our own country who refuse to assimilate. Europe is headed for civil war. You can not take in millions of people into your country who are so culturally and religiously opposed to your way of life and expected anything less than anarchy.
167
Prussia invited thousands of Huguenots to settle in Brandenburg in the 18th century, and that seems to have worked out just fine. And wait, hasn't the United States been the great melting pot of immigrants since day one? Where did your ancestors emigrate from? Did they assimilate? Did you even read the article? Guess you'd rather not face reality.
5
To "miken": I totally disagree. People who want to assimilate manage it. My favorite cashier at the local grocery store immigrated from Eritrea, and another immigrated from Romania; the woman who occasionally helps me with housework immigrated from Cameroon; a man who does occasional gardening work immigrated from Serbia. They all speak better German than me, a US citizen who is very happy to be an expat in Germany.
2
Yes, I am curious about the migrant in an earlier NYTimes story who arrived with TWO wives. How does that play out in European society?
37
Germany knows very well that at the slightest sign the migrants are sponging off the benefits system its citizens are going to revolt. It also knows that as most of them don't speak German, the migrants are going to be put into low-wage, menial jobs, which may not play out well with the migrants, either. As for Dude's point about not "shuttering them in ghettos" - he should take a look around the UK and France and Malmo in Sweden - like tends to group with like. Then there will be the mosques springing up all over Germany.
Germany now has to reap what is has sowed. Denmark by cutting its benefits package down, and the UK, fortunately, by opting out and not signing on to Schengen, will not.
Germany now has to reap what is has sowed. Denmark by cutting its benefits package down, and the UK, fortunately, by opting out and not signing on to Schengen, will not.
99
It's as if nobody remembers how WWII started. Not only Germans but Europeans will get fed up at some point.
2
Elizabeth Renant says, Then there will be the mosques springing up all over Germany.
Of which, Saudi Arabia has promised to pay for 200. How generous the Saudis are to their co-religionists.
Of which, Saudi Arabia has promised to pay for 200. How generous the Saudis are to their co-religionists.
8
America should take an example from Germany, we have a very high percentage of an elderly population, if we will not invite immigrants to work, soon we will have a chance to get a situation where we will have a labor shortage.
5
We also have a youth unemployment rate of 20%+. The US doesn't need any more low skilled or unskilled immigrants.
32
I'm actually quite surprise by the article "Germany’s Top Migration Official Steps Down" (can't you comment on that article?). News in Germany present that story in a completely different light. German media say Manfred Schmidt stepped down because applications for asylum were handled badly (too slowly) and because his office had seen the refugee crisis coming but did not act accordingly (that is, they did not make sure there were enough homes for people seeking asylum).
Now, I really wonder what his actual reasons were. British and American news coverage on the refugee situation is a lot more conservative than the German media coverage is. That might one reason. On the other hand, "he had to go because he attracted too many refugees" is something that you could not popularly say in Germany at the moment. 2/3 of all Germans are in favor of helping war refugees, right now.
And, commenting on this article, I'm very sure that most Germans are in favor of seeing refugees work as soon as possible. Someone who's working and not receiving social welfare is usually not perceived as a threat, quite the opposite. German society is over-aging and every young working person can help pay for elderly people's pensions.
Now, I really wonder what his actual reasons were. British and American news coverage on the refugee situation is a lot more conservative than the German media coverage is. That might one reason. On the other hand, "he had to go because he attracted too many refugees" is something that you could not popularly say in Germany at the moment. 2/3 of all Germans are in favor of helping war refugees, right now.
And, commenting on this article, I'm very sure that most Germans are in favor of seeing refugees work as soon as possible. Someone who's working and not receiving social welfare is usually not perceived as a threat, quite the opposite. German society is over-aging and every young working person can help pay for elderly people's pensions.
52
As near as I can tell Silke, the German news coverage is overwhelmingly "happy, happy..." and barely touches on meaningful long term concerns, which are genuine and serious. Yes, the English language press (and commentary) is far more conservative than the platitudes spouted by the German media. Which coverage is more realistic? It seems not the German media. Which coverage is more compassionate? Well there is no question.
You have to search pretty far beyond the pages of Bild to find the story of the machete wielding "refugee" that in an early act of integration, assaulted the Netto clerk in Freiberg, an act that will apparently not affect his asylum application.
The German press portrays migrants demanding admission throwing stones aT the gates of Hungary as the fault of the Hungarian authorities, not the frenzied mob demanding their "rights" for you & me to subsidize their health care, education, housing & provide a cash stipend.
My property value is already shot as every large building in the village has or will be converted to winter / forever housing. So much for the calm village far from the city center. But hey, the good news is that my accountant says our effective tax rate (after all deductions) this year will only be about 38%,
Hopefully the boneheaded efforts of Schmidt, Merkel & Co. in encouraging all of the MidEast and Africa to head for the golden land will not result in another Solidarity Tax surcharge, but somehow, I think its coming......
You have to search pretty far beyond the pages of Bild to find the story of the machete wielding "refugee" that in an early act of integration, assaulted the Netto clerk in Freiberg, an act that will apparently not affect his asylum application.
The German press portrays migrants demanding admission throwing stones aT the gates of Hungary as the fault of the Hungarian authorities, not the frenzied mob demanding their "rights" for you & me to subsidize their health care, education, housing & provide a cash stipend.
My property value is already shot as every large building in the village has or will be converted to winter / forever housing. So much for the calm village far from the city center. But hey, the good news is that my accountant says our effective tax rate (after all deductions) this year will only be about 38%,
Hopefully the boneheaded efforts of Schmidt, Merkel & Co. in encouraging all of the MidEast and Africa to head for the golden land will not result in another Solidarity Tax surcharge, but somehow, I think its coming......
26
At least German media don't use the word "migrants" ;). No really, I'm one of those 2/3 that are in favor of helping war refugees. But let's say I'm confused by current media coverage, as well... especially by its mood swings - negative, positive, positive, negative?!? It should always be possible to report on positive and negative aspects in a balanced way.
And noone can really tell what the long time consequences of the current situation will be. But I really don't think that anyone is encouraging "everyone from Africa" to come over. We still have a conservative government, remember? That's really the last thing they'd do. Conservative voters wouldn't condone tax increase, either.
When it comes to housing: you keep hearing things about lowering property value. I don't know what it is like in rural areas, but it's near impossible to lower property value in the cities. The crazy thing is that the cities will have to find housing for most refugees, although there'd be lots of empty flats in rural areas. God, we have ghost towns in Germany but refugees won't be housed there because the government is afraid of racist outlashes especially in these areas and because people are more worried about their property and more afraid of foreigners in the villages.
Does that make any sense?
And noone can really tell what the long time consequences of the current situation will be. But I really don't think that anyone is encouraging "everyone from Africa" to come over. We still have a conservative government, remember? That's really the last thing they'd do. Conservative voters wouldn't condone tax increase, either.
When it comes to housing: you keep hearing things about lowering property value. I don't know what it is like in rural areas, but it's near impossible to lower property value in the cities. The crazy thing is that the cities will have to find housing for most refugees, although there'd be lots of empty flats in rural areas. God, we have ghost towns in Germany but refugees won't be housed there because the government is afraid of racist outlashes especially in these areas and because people are more worried about their property and more afraid of foreigners in the villages.
Does that make any sense?
1
Silke,
What you write is sincere and makes a lot of sense.
But what we forget is human nature. Life is hard, very hard in lots of the world. By stating Germany will process all persons that arrive, Schmidt encouraged literally millions to start heading to the golden land.
That was a wrong move, and a serious one that we will all pay for. For a long, long, long time.
What you write is sincere and makes a lot of sense.
But what we forget is human nature. Life is hard, very hard in lots of the world. By stating Germany will process all persons that arrive, Schmidt encouraged literally millions to start heading to the golden land.
That was a wrong move, and a serious one that we will all pay for. For a long, long, long time.
11
While good news, the person in this article was placed in his job years ago before the flood of people that are now overwhelming the country. It would be much more helpful to know what Germany is doing right now to put migrants in jobs and to assimilate them in general. The overwhelming number of economic migrants today really can't be compared to the relative ease of placing a trickle of actual asylum seekers three or four years past.
29
Merkel is such a hypocrite, She totally trashed the Greeks and instead of helping them she sunk them deeper. The unemployment is 25% http://news.yahoo.com/greek-unemployment-rate-dips-24-6-percent-2nd-1219... and maybe the Greeks should start applying for Welfare and refugee status in Germany. They have been terrorized by the poverty and difficult times. Besides now they are invaded by a mob of thugs that are ruthless and not respectful of any law.
104
I beg to differ. It was because of Merkel's insistence that Greece did not get kicked out of the EU as it should have been. Greece is a basket case reliant on the largesse of hard-working European taxpayers.
1
Every Greek has the right to work in Germany, France etc. as they are still members of the EU despite their best efforts to leave the union.
There are many good ideas in this article, but I think that for an international audience it should be said that the unemployment rates in most EU countries are dramatically higher than Germany's 4.6 percent. Austria's is also low, but Austria is very small compared to Germany. Much of the rest of the EU is locked into chronic high unemployment. It's very hard to do what Germany is doing if over half of your own young adults are unemployed. I think that Germans should be a lot more worried about this.
51
This article makes it seem like every migrant has a degree. Other articles give the impression that thousands of Syrian doctors are pleading for asylum. While this article gives something to hope for, how about more articles reporting the reality of the situation: most migrants will be not be so easily integrated into the workforce. Most are unskilled and don't have secondary education.
138
To Desabata: while you are correct that not every migrant has a degree, you are wrong that most migrants will not be integrated in Germany.
I immigrated from the US to Germany more than 20 years ago, and have happily contributed to this society. I meet so many immigrants daily, and most of them speak better German than I do, and have assimilated wonderfully. Immigrants without degrees also contribute to German society: (1) a Muslim woman from Turkey, my lab technician, who taught me German, (2) an Albanian woman who was the perfect babysitter for my infant son, (3) a Serbian man who put our wild garden into shape and his Serbian mother who added a vegetable garden, (4) a Polish man who made critical renovations on our house, (5) a Hungarian girl who worked as our Au-Pair, (6) Eritrean and Romanian cashiers who I always veer towards in the grocery store, (7) a woman from Cameroon who helps me with household tasks, and (8) taxi drivers -- where would we be without them? -- from EVERYWHERE.
I LOVE these immigrants in Germany. They energize this aging society. The more, the better!
I immigrated from the US to Germany more than 20 years ago, and have happily contributed to this society. I meet so many immigrants daily, and most of them speak better German than I do, and have assimilated wonderfully. Immigrants without degrees also contribute to German society: (1) a Muslim woman from Turkey, my lab technician, who taught me German, (2) an Albanian woman who was the perfect babysitter for my infant son, (3) a Serbian man who put our wild garden into shape and his Serbian mother who added a vegetable garden, (4) a Polish man who made critical renovations on our house, (5) a Hungarian girl who worked as our Au-Pair, (6) Eritrean and Romanian cashiers who I always veer towards in the grocery store, (7) a woman from Cameroon who helps me with household tasks, and (8) taxi drivers -- where would we be without them? -- from EVERYWHERE.
I LOVE these immigrants in Germany. They energize this aging society. The more, the better!
5
A curiosity. I read frequently about European unemployment. Also, about the ability of EU citizens to move within the EU. Yet, Germany needs Syrians to learn German and become employees, which suggests that EU citizens do not want to move for employment. Any thoughts from someone who understands what is going on?
8
It's a way to make people accept what can't be really avoided (increasing immigration).
That said, there can't be integration without work, so, under these circumstances, Germany is moving in the right direction.
That said, there can't be integration without work, so, under these circumstances, Germany is moving in the right direction.
Europeans are moving in Europe, too. Mr. Cameron won an election against the Polish immigration. Hungary has about 600000 of its people working abroad. Germany has taken on board at least one million in the last few years.
1
There have been naysayers in Germany ever since eastern European countries joined the EU, and easterners came west in search of jobs. But the vast majority see that these workers fill jobs that Germans don't want (harvesting asparagus for instance) or, in the case of skilled workers, filling jobs that otherwise lack qualified applicants. What is striking to me is that there is little realization that the same situation applies to immigrants in the US: Every day I see latinos doing work that the gringos perceive as being beneath them. Willing workers are an asset to any country.
Unfortunately, in the US, many large corporations have used their influence in Congress and the White House to manipulate immigration laws, so they can bring in skilled workers from abroad who will work at a fraction of the salary of qualified Americans, who are then fired. I think the reason that is not happening in Germany is that by law the corporate boards are required to have labor representation (and actually perform oversight, as opposed to the cronyism of US corporate boards).
Unfortunately, in the US, many large corporations have used their influence in Congress and the White House to manipulate immigration laws, so they can bring in skilled workers from abroad who will work at a fraction of the salary of qualified Americans, who are then fired. I think the reason that is not happening in Germany is that by law the corporate boards are required to have labor representation (and actually perform oversight, as opposed to the cronyism of US corporate boards).
17
'...Every day I see latinos doing work that the gringos perceive as being beneath them...'
You mean that 'gringos' used to do at a living wage?
Supply and demand rules all. There are too many low skilled workers for too few jobs and that cannot be fixed by importing even more labor.
You mean that 'gringos' used to do at a living wage?
Supply and demand rules all. There are too many low skilled workers for too few jobs and that cannot be fixed by importing even more labor.
7
It must be so frustrating to see those "uppity" working class U.S. citizens who won't accept hazardous working conditions, no over time pay and low wages because they know they have rights.
7
Immigrants in Germany that learn the language and complete an apprenticeship / training program do quite well - even better than Mr. Jasor. Engineering instructors, administrators, shop owners and millionaire business tycoons. Many Germans know this.
The current mass migration will stress every housing centre, language class and career training program. Regular people across the Land are rising to the challenge to make success happen. The positive attitude and reaction is wonderful to see, even if it is clear that many are pure economic migrants, not at all refugees.
Underneath, there is concern, as it was stated yesterday that the majority of the new migrants will not have any luck entering the German workforce in the short to mid-term, in any capacity.
The push to diminish training standards to allow faster entry into the workforce is also concerning, because setting aside the real or imagined concerns about lowered wages, a skilled, trained work force IS the German advantage.
There is no German advantage on hourly labor costs, so production efficiency, high quality and innovation are mandatory to remain competitive. Multi-year industrial apprenticeships actually provide trained, skilled labor, not debutantes. Applicants are indeed welcome, but must finish the program to make it all work.
The best news in your story appears to be that if all goes perfectly, only 27% of the migrant men will become permanent wards of the state.
The current mass migration will stress every housing centre, language class and career training program. Regular people across the Land are rising to the challenge to make success happen. The positive attitude and reaction is wonderful to see, even if it is clear that many are pure economic migrants, not at all refugees.
Underneath, there is concern, as it was stated yesterday that the majority of the new migrants will not have any luck entering the German workforce in the short to mid-term, in any capacity.
The push to diminish training standards to allow faster entry into the workforce is also concerning, because setting aside the real or imagined concerns about lowered wages, a skilled, trained work force IS the German advantage.
There is no German advantage on hourly labor costs, so production efficiency, high quality and innovation are mandatory to remain competitive. Multi-year industrial apprenticeships actually provide trained, skilled labor, not debutantes. Applicants are indeed welcome, but must finish the program to make it all work.
The best news in your story appears to be that if all goes perfectly, only 27% of the migrant men will become permanent wards of the state.
93
Only 27% of the men and 48% of migrant women?
Not exactly something to celebrate, as the world has seen how well this worked in Paris.
Not exactly something to celebrate, as the world has seen how well this worked in Paris.
10
That's still a lot of people on the dole. For example, many from Eritrea even after ten years in the country are not working but living off the taxpayers. A huge underclass is very dangerous!
10
Lars, I hope you were being facetious in reassuring us that "ONLY" 27% of the young, fit migrant Muslim men will become permanent wards of the state. I am sure some naive readers are thinking, "Yeah, 27% isn't that bad."
10
Germany is pushing the other EU nations to accept some of these migrants. Merkel wants some in Germany because of a labor shortage, 5% unemployment.
Why doesn't Germany go to other EU nations which have very high unemployment over all , Spain 25%, or high unemployment of migrants already living in the EU, Sweden 60% unemployment among foreign born???
Why doesn't Germany go to other EU nations which have very high unemployment over all , Spain 25%, or high unemployment of migrants already living in the EU, Sweden 60% unemployment among foreign born???
36
Nearly 20% of all germans are migrants (only a very few are refugees, like the vietnamese boat people). Migration in germany is largely a success, with some very few exceptions. This is what many refugees perceive very soon, they are not the first, many made it before them.
These refugees want a life, an opportunity. They want their children to join a school, and nearly everyone of the children want to become an engineer. Many want to study, women and men alike.
We need succeesful multiplier, we need social worker with the same cultural background as the refugees. The refugees want to integrate, we just have to show them how, and it takes time. For this you need the right attitude.
This is what startles me about europe, that the nations even in the attitude of migration seem to be worlds apart. Of course immigration is a challenge, but this overly negative stance even in france is unsettling.
These refugees want a life, an opportunity. They want their children to join a school, and nearly everyone of the children want to become an engineer. Many want to study, women and men alike.
We need succeesful multiplier, we need social worker with the same cultural background as the refugees. The refugees want to integrate, we just have to show them how, and it takes time. For this you need the right attitude.
This is what startles me about europe, that the nations even in the attitude of migration seem to be worlds apart. Of course immigration is a challenge, but this overly negative stance even in france is unsettling.
98
I am skeptical about so many people, mostly Muslim from the Middle East, being accepted into German society in such a relatively narrow time frame. I worked in Germany from 1987 to 1999, living in Hamburg, Frankfurt, Düsseldorf, and Berlin. When visiting the Einwohnermeldeamt (civil registry office) in those cities, bureaucrats would often say things like "You're the first man without black hair and a mustache I've seen all morning." I heard similar comments routinely from ethnic Germans everywhere. Most Germans are atheists and take a dim view of Islam and Muslims in traditional clothing.
On the positive side, many of these refugees are well educated and can find jobs, if Germans will hire them. I am hoping they will shake things up in an otherwise conservative and boring country.
On the positive side, many of these refugees are well educated and can find jobs, if Germans will hire them. I am hoping they will shake things up in an otherwise conservative and boring country.
13
it doesn't surprise me at all, just have to dig a little deeper.
We all want successful immigrants with a great background and mentality. But this is the very problem of Europe and especially of France (the traditional country of immigration in Europe): they don't have a selective immigration system like the one you have in North America. How can you expect people to welcome immigration with an optimistic view when it's not filtered to answer economical needs? When the immigrants are poorer and more uneducated than their American or Australian counterparts? Europe needs a common strategy and a more rational immigration system. But when you talk about quotas and selection in France, the left will label you as selfish or xenophobic… very different mentality than the Anglo Americans and also very naive interpretation of what humanism is IMO.
4
This is smart. Education, training. Get them working and stabile in society, treat them well, and it will be an investment that pays off. Shutter them in ghettos, and wait a generation for the bombs to explode.
155
Dude: No one is 'shuttered' in ghettos, here or in Europe.
In the First World, people stay in ghettos for the same reasons. Lack of ambition, having children they cannot support, and a sense of entitlement to taxpayer support.
The best, brightest, and hardest working have always moved up and out, leaving the worst behind, generation after generation.
In the First World, people stay in ghettos for the same reasons. Lack of ambition, having children they cannot support, and a sense of entitlement to taxpayer support.
The best, brightest, and hardest working have always moved up and out, leaving the worst behind, generation after generation.
24
The many restrictions put on Muslim Women - that non-Muslim women are not subjected to, automatically shutters women in. Look at the works of French philosopher Elisabeth Badinter to see the effects of these cultural norms on women in France. Just look at the numbers in the article - there is a 25% difference between the number of migrant men vs. women working and only a 10% amongst other Germans. This is huge, and probably does reflect an incomplete assimilation.
4
This sounds more like fear than humanitarian compassion.
Stop calling these war refugees "migrants". These are not "migrant" workers. These are war refugees fleeing for their lives.
28
I agree. It's time for the media to use the correct appellation for these desperate people. Countries don't want to term them "refugees" because that confers a responsibility on the countries to accept and assist them, but refugees from war and disaster is what they are. I'm appalled and disgusted by the brutal treatment, illegal under the Geneva Convention, that the Hungarian government is giving refugees. Some private Hungarian citizens, horrified by the behavior of their government, to their credit are helping refugees; in fact, the previous Prime Minister and his family are taking a different refugee family in for the night to give them a chance for baths, kind treatment, and a night's undisturbed rest in a bed.
2
Safe in New York City, you see only the photos the TIMES, BBC, and Guardian choose to show you. Most of these are healthy young men from a variety of countries. Most are economic migrants. If they are all refugees, why are they insisting they will only go to Germany, the UK, or Sweden - where the benefits are higher? They have refused asylum in Denmark. If they are so terrified and so desperate, why are they acting like country shoppers?
And since Europe has a good many unemployed of their own, like the two million in Britain, working quickly to get the newest arrivals jobs while their own are left to fend for themselves is not going to play out well, in, for example, Britain's hard-hit industrial north. Where, ironically, the first group of "refugees" Britain agreed to take are being shunted up to. Of course, they don't have to stay there. Undoubtedly, once they find their way around and have five-permanent residence visas, they'll figure out the lay of the land and head to the richer southeast in London - which was just named the most congested city on earth, with the highest housing costs in the world, and a water supply that will exceed demand by a minimum of ten percent within ten years.
It must all look so easy from New York.
And since Europe has a good many unemployed of their own, like the two million in Britain, working quickly to get the newest arrivals jobs while their own are left to fend for themselves is not going to play out well, in, for example, Britain's hard-hit industrial north. Where, ironically, the first group of "refugees" Britain agreed to take are being shunted up to. Of course, they don't have to stay there. Undoubtedly, once they find their way around and have five-permanent residence visas, they'll figure out the lay of the land and head to the richer southeast in London - which was just named the most congested city on earth, with the highest housing costs in the world, and a water supply that will exceed demand by a minimum of ten percent within ten years.
It must all look so easy from New York.
138
More than half have been found to be economic migrants, not war refugees.
117