As someone currently back in school for Computer Science, my opinion is that only good can come from this.
Journeyman welders earn $50 an hour; underwater welders start at over $100 an hour; aircraft (fixed wing and rotor) mechanics don't earn peanuts, neither do pilots; railroad and dock workers are well compensated, as are trucker who use their brains. Each of these areas require reading and math skills, which should be the focus of el-hi schools (along with science and history). But for some.reason the present-day assumption is that the only money to be made is in computers, when in actuality, there are a great many fields of opportunity. Focusing on only one and giving kids the idea that "this is where the money is" as though that is the only discipline that pays, will, in effect, close doors they will not know are there. How about a well-rounded el-hi education, with some exposure to multiple disciplines? Bring in people from various fields to talk about their work...what they love about it, what they hate about it.
Most people, even people in the computing/software field, do not really need a "computer science" education. Certainly some basic computer literacy should be taught to all kids, and some who show aptitude and interest should be exposed to programming. But "computer science" is stuff like: O(n) notation for algorithmic complexity, countability of sets, the Halting Problem, symbolic algebra, etc. and that's just going to go over most teenagers' heads. It would be like making a would-be electrician study electrophysics, or expecting a plumber to know Bernoulli's equations and the advanced calculus required to describe fluid flows.
1
A lot of recently IT professionals who are low paid, have been replaced by visa holders or have seen their jobs move overseas can fill these teaching positions. It should not take 10 years to implement!
Better to concentrate not on coding but on mathematics, algebra, problem solving, spreadsheet programming, advanced word processing. Most of the employees in technology work are not coders at all but require teamwork skills, a general knowledge, and ability to learn fast, or teach themselves, just-in-time learning. Teaching coding sufficient to produce a commercial program is not something you can do in high school, and by the time you master it, there will be another computer language and tools to replace it. Remember Basic and Pascal? Everybody needs to know how to use computers to solve problems in everyday life. That is more than how to use Facebook and Twitter, and less than how to write an app for IOS9.
Of the many vast issues our young need to be prepared for in the future they face, particularly environmental issues, this mayor decided that all the students of this large city should be preparing to participate in the economy of APP making.
Wasn't it something like 7% of the NY electorate that voted to put him into office and he then rules over the whole public school system without any balancing of goals worked out through any kind of parent-teachet- schoolboard collaboration.
It is not possible to arrive a successful system based on these types of top-down proclamations.
Wasn't it something like 7% of the NY electorate that voted to put him into office and he then rules over the whole public school system without any balancing of goals worked out through any kind of parent-teachet- schoolboard collaboration.
It is not possible to arrive a successful system based on these types of top-down proclamations.
The mayor should stop setting goals and actually work to get things done. So many good ideas, so little follow theough. Police reform? No. Affordable housing? No. Vision Zero for no traffic fatalities by 2020? No. Aid for the mentally ill. No.
We elected de Blasio for these progressive ideas - and want to see reform. But institutions resist reform. So, what's it going to take?
You start to get the feel that this all hot air.
We elected de Blasio for these progressive ideas - and want to see reform. But institutions resist reform. So, what's it going to take?
You start to get the feel that this all hot air.
As a fresh college graduate of computer science, I see many issues with Major De Blasio's initiative, but the one that stands out the most is pay grade.
I have friends who also graduated from UIUC, but majored in education. They're making half of what I make, and that gap will only become greater as we progress down our respective careers.
I have seriously considered education as a career, and plan on pursuing it one day - after I've made great money doing something that stretches my intellect to it's highest potential. But how will Major De Blasio reconcile the huge pay cut I'd be taking if I were to switch to education? That is to assume that I'm already qualified to teach computer science - I'm only halfway there after 4 years of undergrad.
I have friends who also graduated from UIUC, but majored in education. They're making half of what I make, and that gap will only become greater as we progress down our respective careers.
I have seriously considered education as a career, and plan on pursuing it one day - after I've made great money doing something that stretches my intellect to it's highest potential. But how will Major De Blasio reconcile the huge pay cut I'd be taking if I were to switch to education? That is to assume that I'm already qualified to teach computer science - I'm only halfway there after 4 years of undergrad.
In light of cyberwarfare and cyber security issues, does the Mayor think we have ten years to spare? Now is the time!
1
Ten years, really? We put a man on the moon in less than ten years!
This just another example of people not having the will to do what they should in a timely manner. If it is worth doing do it NOW. If it is not worth doing then do not bother.
This just another example of people not having the will to do what they should in a timely manner. If it is worth doing do it NOW. If it is not worth doing then do not bother.
"But the goal is for all students, even those in elementary school and those in the poorest neighborhoods, to have some exposure to computer science, whether building robots . . . ."
Careful about that building robots thing, though, kids, based on today's news from Texas . . .
Careful about that building robots thing, though, kids, based on today's news from Texas . . .
I'm happy about of the news because in my country not exists this incentive for education. You should thank for have this opportunity.
Really NYC? Ten years to accomplish this goal? States like Arkansas are crushing you. Last school year, Arkansas required all schools public and charter, to offer computer science NEXT YEAR. That means they are teaching CS right now. That is ten years before NYC. There are many options available to add a CS class to any school today. Working for a company that offers such curriculum, I speak with educators on a daily basis. The point of offering a programming or other CS courses in High school is to offer students a view “behind the curtain” of computers. Some students will learn coding whether schools teach it or not. A programming course like ours is used to attract the students that are not sure what they want to do; but “Game Programming” sounds like fun. Our students in our “Game Programming” Curriculum learn the coding language C# (Pron. C-Sharp), which is used to create many different types of software. Ten years to accomplish this goal? Nine years ago, the trackball was introduced for the Blackberry, there was no iPhone, remember that? What will we be doing in the next ten years?
2
What will we be doing in the next ten years?
trying to get the curriculum into the class.
trying to get the curriculum into the class.
1
Where will NYC get the CS curriculum from? Several are already developed, but are they buying one off the shelf? Working with a Teaching College? I hope not building it from scratch...
As an elective yes - but not mandatory like Chicago. That's a dumb idea. High school is not college. High school students shouldn't have to prove proficiency in computer science to graduate. In that case - why not accounting classes? Not everyone is going to grasp computer science - just like they won't all grasp accounting. 1) focus on making schools proficient in the basics first 2) add more vocational schools as all students are not and will never be or maybe don't desire to be college material.
1
Computer Science provides employable skills. I have a Masters in Computer Science and have been steadily employed for over 30 years.
Computer Science teaches concepts which generally require knowledge of discrete math, graph theory, etc.
Programming classes are frequently the first class people take, which try to show implementation of concepts.
There are many millions of jobs in IT especially in NYC and Jersey City. Additionally there are business analysts, project managers, CFOs who need to understand computer technology to implement HR, CRM, payroll, and manufacturing systems.
Writing an Android application might be a good introduction to this large field.
Computer Science teaches concepts which generally require knowledge of discrete math, graph theory, etc.
Programming classes are frequently the first class people take, which try to show implementation of concepts.
There are many millions of jobs in IT especially in NYC and Jersey City. Additionally there are business analysts, project managers, CFOs who need to understand computer technology to implement HR, CRM, payroll, and manufacturing systems.
Writing an Android application might be a good introduction to this large field.
2
I remember learning logic in math class back in 10th grade for the NYS Regents exams.
That's your foundation for computer science. Everything beyond that takes years of self honing.
That's your foundation for computer science. Everything beyond that takes years of self honing.
1
Considering most New York City public school children educated by union teachers are not currently achieving competency in Math and English we might want to fix that first before adding more to the curriculum.
3
Sure, blame the union for every failure. There are many factors involved in children not learning that are beyond the control of teachers, principals, schools. Poverty is high on the list -- a child coming to school because he didn't sleep because he shares a bed with siblings, or comes to school without proper clothing, or hasn't eaten. Those needs must be addressed before children can focus on learning.
1
It is common for children inJapan to share a bed with their siblings and there mother too. It is no excuse for school performance and certainly not one to cover for faulty educational practices. And as the public schools all offer breakfast to all, what gives about that excuse.
It's time to stop making excuses and acknowledge that there are real issues that result form the institution itself that is inhibiting education achievement of many students.
It's time to stop making excuses and acknowledge that there are real issues that result form the institution itself that is inhibiting education achievement of many students.
1
I don't think the problem with our kids getting jobs is tied to knowing computer science or how to code. Frankly, this is about 20 years too late - coding used to provide a good career when you majored in it in college, but now coders are a dime a dozen and most are located in India.
Maybe De Blasio ought to focus on why kids graduate without being able to do basic math or write a legible paragraph. Maybe it would be good to eliminate teachers that cannot teach, regardless of their precious tenure, and allow those that can teach to actually teach kids the basics and how to think.
Guess that doesn't make headlines. De Blasio - is he stupid? Or is he just incapable of running the city and so must dig up dumb ideas that cannot be paid for, while ignoring the garbage and crime in the streets? Someone, please tell him what the job of mayor is. It is not to design the educational curriculum!
Maybe De Blasio ought to focus on why kids graduate without being able to do basic math or write a legible paragraph. Maybe it would be good to eliminate teachers that cannot teach, regardless of their precious tenure, and allow those that can teach to actually teach kids the basics and how to think.
Guess that doesn't make headlines. De Blasio - is he stupid? Or is he just incapable of running the city and so must dig up dumb ideas that cannot be paid for, while ignoring the garbage and crime in the streets? Someone, please tell him what the job of mayor is. It is not to design the educational curriculum!
9
Yes, please tell him and all of the rest of us in New York about how our city should function from Georgia.
1
So dumb and devoid of any sense of the educational issues involved that it gives one an instant quasi migraine! Rx is rest in a dark room especially during politicians' announcements of cures for social ills.
3
But, what is "computer science"? In simpler terms, what precisely will be taught?
I am in favor of teaching the nature of computers and computing. I am not in favor of filling up coding classes with students required to learn that stuff. For many, it's dull and even perplexing.
Furthermore, only the best graduates get the best jobs, those who have a natural talent. The rest are relegated to careers at the bottom of the computing business and would be better off in another career.
I am in favor of teaching the nature of computers and computing. I am not in favor of filling up coding classes with students required to learn that stuff. For many, it's dull and even perplexing.
Furthermore, only the best graduates get the best jobs, those who have a natural talent. The rest are relegated to careers at the bottom of the computing business and would be better off in another career.
2
Great idea. They can learn computer programming and go to India to find work.
9
This sounds like another "bright, shiny object" plan. We often read how colleges across the country see increasing numbers of incoming freshman who require remedial math and language courses and about high schools that fail to prepare and graduate many students. So the Mayor's solution is to offer more opportunities to steer students away from the basics that they'll need regardless of their career path. This is will likely be another expensive boondoggle with questionable results but it sounds and feels good so why not, right?
Then there's this from the BBC: "Computers 'do not improve' pupil results, says OECD." http://www.bbc.com/news/business-34174796.
Then there's this from the BBC: "Computers 'do not improve' pupil results, says OECD." http://www.bbc.com/news/business-34174796.
4
A great idea that should be taken up throughout America.
1
Great! Now, WILL it be properly funded? If so, HOW and WHEN?
Waiting...
Waiting...
2
How about teaching the basics of operating on a unix/Linux environment, instead of just relying on the much more costly systems, such as those marketed by Apple and Microsoft? Unix/Linux is cheap, fast, reliable, versatile, requires no gratuitous upgrades, and provide the users an enormously better understanding of the science of computing, that is, not merely 'clicking' buttons. One can even run unix/Linux on the current Apples and PCs.
2
This should be required in all schools nationwide if we're to have a workforce that's prepared for the jobs in today's market.
2
Our teaching force is struggling to teach common core mathematics and other common core subjects, and now, a new reform, computer science --- what could go wrong?
3
The Luddite comments on this piece are unbelievable. Computer science isn't teaching kids how to surf the Internet or use a smartphone! Computer science is PROBLEM SOLVING. It teaches how to use technology to improve quality of life, and it's a crucial discipline in today's world. It is applicable far beyond games or apps or even coding skills. The only outrage about this should be that the deadline wasn't 10 years AGO.
8
You can learn problem solving in science or history. Every engineering field is about problem solving. You don't have to learn some computer language to learn about the nature of computing. This is not a great idea unless it's very controlled.
4
What is your objection to computer science if you have no problem with other fields of science and engineering? Learning "some computer language" is not the point of a computer science class, just as learning vocabulary words is not the point of an English class. Why exactly is this a bad idea?
2
You don't need a teacher in the room to teach computer science! My son learned it from Code Academy (free online) and then he took AP Computer Science through North Carolina Virtual Public School. He is 16 years old and already gets paid to code.
3
I took a couple of courses in computers in a New York City high school in the 70's. There no excuse for not having this now.
2
An iPad is a device for consuming media. It's an idiot box like a TV, not a computer for teaching computer programming, or even literacy. With the right curriculum, however, it could suffice.
1
A faster boost to the students might be to help them learn how to use social networks and the internet to find out how to do things they want to do.
This would be useful this afternoon, not in 8 years. For example, can they quickly and comfortably locate a YouTube video on how to patch a leaking bicycle tire, how long to cook a turkey, etc.?
Second, are they familiar enough and comfortable enough with the social norms of on-line technical support groups to know how to ask a question that will most likely get them an answer, instead of silence or rude replies? For example, suppose they try to add up a column of numbers in a spreadsheet, and it doesn't work as advertised. Do they know how to proceed that is likely to succeed?
Can they look up personal health answers, and have any idea how to sift and sort through conflicting information with the use of Q/A forums?
Are they comfortable enough with the tools to ask, and get good answers to questions like "This dude is offering me a mortage at 5% for $400,000 -- is this a good idea or a scam?"
Those are skills that are immediately useful and seem to me would be a good foundation before starting to "learn computers."
Can they collectively "learn a new technology" like using a cell-phone? Why do "giggling gaggles of girls" do this much faster than PhD Faculty?
Then, they can "teach themselves" to code if they want to, probably starting with building their own games. We don't need to ask "teachers" to do this.
This would be useful this afternoon, not in 8 years. For example, can they quickly and comfortably locate a YouTube video on how to patch a leaking bicycle tire, how long to cook a turkey, etc.?
Second, are they familiar enough and comfortable enough with the social norms of on-line technical support groups to know how to ask a question that will most likely get them an answer, instead of silence or rude replies? For example, suppose they try to add up a column of numbers in a spreadsheet, and it doesn't work as advertised. Do they know how to proceed that is likely to succeed?
Can they look up personal health answers, and have any idea how to sift and sort through conflicting information with the use of Q/A forums?
Are they comfortable enough with the tools to ask, and get good answers to questions like "This dude is offering me a mortage at 5% for $400,000 -- is this a good idea or a scam?"
Those are skills that are immediately useful and seem to me would be a good foundation before starting to "learn computers."
Can they collectively "learn a new technology" like using a cell-phone? Why do "giggling gaggles of girls" do this much faster than PhD Faculty?
Then, they can "teach themselves" to code if they want to, probably starting with building their own games. We don't need to ask "teachers" to do this.
2
It might be useful to teach them math first, but any step to raise the skill levels of public school kids is worth trying.
The hard part of course is to convince industry subject matter experts to give up comparatively lucrative jobs in the private sector to take up the task of teaching to the kids. Since the industry is short handed right now, one has to wonder where the teachers will come from and how they'll get funded.
The hard part of course is to convince industry subject matter experts to give up comparatively lucrative jobs in the private sector to take up the task of teaching to the kids. Since the industry is short handed right now, one has to wonder where the teachers will come from and how they'll get funded.
1
Wow, What the hell did all previous NYC Mayors did besides sitting on their hands ?
As an adult without children I had no idea that computer science was not taught as a basic subject to school children in this supposed "1st world city."
No wonder most children only aspire to be Rappers or Basketball players.
As an adult without children I had no idea that computer science was not taught as a basic subject to school children in this supposed "1st world city."
No wonder most children only aspire to be Rappers or Basketball players.
4
They were busy sweeping homeless people under the carpet so they could auction off NYC real estate to their personal friends and highest bidders.
1
I know a 23 year old New Yorker (with a humanities degree) who just finished a twelve week intensive training program in Computer Science and quickly got a job with an $80,000 a year salary. New York City teachers start at $45,000 and take a decade to reach that level. There are a few kind souls out there that love teaching and are willing to forego a quarter of a million dollars in salary for it, but not many.
Who is going to teach these classes?
Who is going to teach these classes?
3
we need to bring in visa holders, after all it does work in industry.
Wow. The negative pushback surprises me. Computers, as machines, and computational thinking, the logic that fuels those machines, are everywhere, completely interwoven with our basic functioning as individuals and as a society. How do we argue or even suggest that learning how they work might be unnecessary?
One problem might be the language itself. What is CS? Scratch around a little and you'll find lots of answers. Perhaps that's because CS is a lot of different things. A wagon wheel analogy might be useful. Some of the spokes involve coding, or programming; other spokes are built from networking and IT; others look like gaming, web design, digital fabrication, and social media. Others are yet to be grasped at all. Holding all the spokes together is the logic of computation, the metaphorical ones and zeros, the on/off, the and/or. The wheel falls completely apart without all these components and their various protocols, each connected or at least fractionally attached to each other. Perhaps we might start with holding CS as a yet to be fully defined entity among us, even as ubiquitous as it might seem to any of us individually. (Here we might remember the blind men and their elephant?)
Another analogy might be that of written language. Recall that scratching marks on bark and bones began as a tool for accounting and weather prediction. Today, though, it's difficult to imagine a teacher in any domain arguing successfully for excluding writing from the curriculum.
One problem might be the language itself. What is CS? Scratch around a little and you'll find lots of answers. Perhaps that's because CS is a lot of different things. A wagon wheel analogy might be useful. Some of the spokes involve coding, or programming; other spokes are built from networking and IT; others look like gaming, web design, digital fabrication, and social media. Others are yet to be grasped at all. Holding all the spokes together is the logic of computation, the metaphorical ones and zeros, the on/off, the and/or. The wheel falls completely apart without all these components and their various protocols, each connected or at least fractionally attached to each other. Perhaps we might start with holding CS as a yet to be fully defined entity among us, even as ubiquitous as it might seem to any of us individually. (Here we might remember the blind men and their elephant?)
Another analogy might be that of written language. Recall that scratching marks on bark and bones began as a tool for accounting and weather prediction. Today, though, it's difficult to imagine a teacher in any domain arguing successfully for excluding writing from the curriculum.
3
This idea is 25 years late now, forget about in 10 more years. All I can say is thanks dad for buying that Tandy 1000 in 1985, instead of that video game console idiot box. I know it cost a lot and you had to make sacrifices to afford it. Was it worth it? I don't necessarily get paid more in my career for being able to program BASIC or even HTML, but I have a brother with a dream engineering job out in Silicon Valley. Unfortunately building a single Lego robot and "programming" in an elective class is not enough. That's like an intro or survey class. Kids need a lot more access and exposure. The teacher excuse is a poor one. Provide tech to kids and they will show you how to use it. Maybe if I didn't need state cert I could teach. It could be a second career for a lot of extremely qualified people but too many barriers set up by the bureaucracy.
4
God be praised. DeBlasio asks City Council to require computer industry in NYC to apply "Moore's Law" to the yearly salary paid to its employees. Considers executive order to apply it to municipal workers.
2
I taught computer science in a Philadelphia public junior high school in 1971-72. I had 30-36 students in my classroom which was located across the hall from a storage closet that had a terminal connected to a mainframe "downtown". My "training"? I had one course in Fortran in college in 1967--- which made me the most qualified teacher on the staff. Here's what I observed: computer science was unimportant to kids who were fearful of being jumped by a gang on the way home or worried about where there next meal was coming from or had no adult at home during the evening because of their parents' work schedule. Moreover, these kids would never be able to lay their hands on a computer anywhere outside of the closet across the hall from my classroom.
My conclusion: in order for the mayor to be successful in this endeavor he needs to continue pushing for the anti-poverty measures he is advocating and he needs to make sure that when the kids leave school they will all have the same access to high-speed connectivity and up-to-date technology. I wish him well… and hope he succeeds!
My conclusion: in order for the mayor to be successful in this endeavor he needs to continue pushing for the anti-poverty measures he is advocating and he needs to make sure that when the kids leave school they will all have the same access to high-speed connectivity and up-to-date technology. I wish him well… and hope he succeeds!
6
Another great example of a politician following the next shiny object. The thought is great, but how does this initiative fit into the whole program. Focusing on point solutions doesn't solve the problem, it causes another one, i.e. education has to be conceived and delivered holistically Based on what I have read hear, the Mayor is playing whack-a-mole. Next he will be focusing on math, because the students can't excel at computer science without a proper math background. And then...
8
As much as technology has and will transcend American lives,we must not,as a consequence,de-emphasize the benefits of Arts and Humanities.I have been keenly disappointed in the contemporary rationale that degrees in these fields are wasteful of both time and money.Yet time and again,cultures are attacked by subversive technological broaches,whose motivations we are bewildered to diagnose.Random cyber-bullying has reached stages where one is not only not shocked,but merely confirms the potentially predatory nature of the web.Where/what is the psychosis of this new phenomena,the compulsion to invade the virtual privacy of our fellow man.Is it because the opportunity is ultimately,irresistible?What does That say about mankind's control of stimulus and response? Does capitalist reward dominate compassion?We are,of course,moving into another realm of evolution,technically,which is indeed an advancement.However we must bear in mind,that the ultimate 'pursuit or denial of happiness,can be but one click away.
1
Scratch, huh?
Tell me: when the boys blow past this obstacle on their own, learning a real language, leaving the girls in the dust, are we still going to blame misogyny? Or mansplaining? Or Manspreading? Or manslamming? Or manconditioning (temperature of office buildings)?
Sure, why not: women should never take responsibility for themselves.
As an aside: two week into Prostate Cancer Awareness month and STILL no supportive article from the NY Times and Obama has STILL not lit the White House Blue. But get those pink ribbons ready: October is just two weeks away. Men, huh? Just misogynists.
Tell me: when the boys blow past this obstacle on their own, learning a real language, leaving the girls in the dust, are we still going to blame misogyny? Or mansplaining? Or Manspreading? Or manslamming? Or manconditioning (temperature of office buildings)?
Sure, why not: women should never take responsibility for themselves.
As an aside: two week into Prostate Cancer Awareness month and STILL no supportive article from the NY Times and Obama has STILL not lit the White House Blue. But get those pink ribbons ready: October is just two weeks away. Men, huh? Just misogynists.
1
This is a great and wise move! However, I wonder how many of the students can read and do simple arithmetic well enough to understand Computer Science without massive remediation.
4
Yes dBlasio must, he should and has to resign. He is a Mayor all for himself. Please Gov. Cuomo, can you "assist" his removal from this sacred office? Thank you.
Teaching "computer science" to today's children is like having a typesetting course in the previous generation. The important developments in computer science are at the theoretical level or are engineering problems, not programming or coding. Whatever supposed skills are learned in the glacially slow development of this program will be utterly obsolete before they are implemented.
Another part of the Mayor's breathtaking "initiative" is the expenditure of $70M or more to expand Advanced Placement. This is a great idea - for David Coleman and the rapacious College Board. For kids - not so much. The Mayor thinks kids will "perform" better just by shoving these canned courses into underfunded, poorly maintained, spirit enervating schools? The College Board is a shameful organization and the Advanced Placement curriculum is lazy education. What was once a clever scheme to collect a few college credits before college, has now become useless. As the AP "brand" has expanded, the value has contracted. Colleges don't really care anymore.
I lead a private school and we abandoned the AP more than a decade ago, because we can offer much better, much more interesting courses.
If we want to fix schools, how about we honor teachers, address racism, mitigate the effects of poverty and give children a play-based, joyful education with small classes and loving support?
These "initiatives" are just public relations nonsense and do nothing to advance educational equity.
Another part of the Mayor's breathtaking "initiative" is the expenditure of $70M or more to expand Advanced Placement. This is a great idea - for David Coleman and the rapacious College Board. For kids - not so much. The Mayor thinks kids will "perform" better just by shoving these canned courses into underfunded, poorly maintained, spirit enervating schools? The College Board is a shameful organization and the Advanced Placement curriculum is lazy education. What was once a clever scheme to collect a few college credits before college, has now become useless. As the AP "brand" has expanded, the value has contracted. Colleges don't really care anymore.
I lead a private school and we abandoned the AP more than a decade ago, because we can offer much better, much more interesting courses.
If we want to fix schools, how about we honor teachers, address racism, mitigate the effects of poverty and give children a play-based, joyful education with small classes and loving support?
These "initiatives" are just public relations nonsense and do nothing to advance educational equity.
2
There are amazing (often free) resources for technology education from K-12. I don't quite understand the 1% number as 108 hours of technology instruction is a middle school requirement. Hopefully all students have had some exposure to programming by high student. That said, anything to inspire students to love science, math or engineering is vital.
1
The studies are in and indicate that computers in classrooms do not improve education or outcome: 2015 OECD report examines impact of school technology on international test results, such as the Pisa tests taken in more than 70 countries and tests measuring digital skills. It says education systems which have invested heavily in information and communications technology have seen "no noticeable improvement" in Pisa test results for reading, mathematics or science.
Computers are OK as long as they dont displace teaching mastery of the 3Rs.
Computers are OK as long as they dont displace teaching mastery of the 3Rs.
1
Despite keeping the ipad and computer games away from my seven year old, I find that she has a natural instinct in how to play games on the computer or use my iphone. She would happily spend hours playing around if I gave her the opportunity. In the elementary years it is so critical for our kids to learn to relate with other people. Their social and emotional development is more important. I find that technology and computers take away from their willingness to connect with people…her mind is engrossed in the iPad if she has it and she will find ways to get it back in her hands every opportunity she has. I have seen the impact computers have had on other children in my family….reduced ability to connect with other children and people. I say…keep it away from the elementary school kids as long as you can. The children need to be given more support in learning math and science at this stage. Also, if you must add something that may help later… probably typing skills.
P.S. The computer science course I was taught at college was obsolete by the time I started work life….and so of no use. Schools typically are not able to modify their curriculum quickly enough to keep up with technology changes.
P.S. The computer science course I was taught at college was obsolete by the time I started work life….and so of no use. Schools typically are not able to modify their curriculum quickly enough to keep up with technology changes.
2
The most ridiculous idea ever. Kids are already exposed to enough 'computer' so-called science in schools and at home. Majority will not even go into that field when they grow up thus it would be a waste of another generation of youth without jobs. What DiBlasio and others need to think of is how to keep jobs in America not waste time on this nonsense.
Once upon a time, NYC had technology teachers in schools. However, since the early '00s, most of them have been phased out of their schools and sent to the "Absent Teacher Reserve". Once can still find them drifting from school to school for 2-week stints, serving as glorified substitutes who earn full salary and benefits until they retire. Perhaps their skills are outdated, perhaps their schools needed to pay young new English teachers smaller salaries to focus on the Common Core...I don't know the reasons why they were eliminated, but in light of Daniel Willingham's Op-Ed piece on September 8th ("Teachers aren't dumb"), and the fact that there are no existing training programs to get experts in computer science into NYC classrooms, I'd say De Blasio had better cross his fingers and hope for the best if he thinks tech-savvy teachers will suddenly materialize!
2
Smart move. Bring the students into todays technology asap. Great move, DeBlasio, your predecessors should have done it, thank you for paying attention.
1
I have a degree in computer science and I taught AP computer science at a school in Washington Heights last year as a volunteer. Three of the students are now pursuing CS degrees in college. This is a direct result of being offered the class. Exposure is key and I applaud the city for this effort.
Tech jobs are in high demand. Madating CS is a direct way to help satisfy this demand, and give children an opportunity at a lifelong career to boot. Our entire world today runs on a backbone of code. CS needs to be as widely offered as biology or chemistry. This is a giant step in that direction.
Tech jobs are in high demand. Madating CS is a direct way to help satisfy this demand, and give children an opportunity at a lifelong career to boot. Our entire world today runs on a backbone of code. CS needs to be as widely offered as biology or chemistry. This is a giant step in that direction.
4
Next thing we know the taxpayers will be required to buy every student an iPad. While 45 year old government teachers teach these students C .
1
Nothing wrong with Ritchie n Kernigan C, but a bridge too far for most :)
Too little too late. Practically every other industrialized country in the world is way way ahead of us and we will never catch up. Republicans have been enormously successful in cutting funds for public education to the point where we're graduating substandard people who are for the most part going to serve fast food.
4
Totally agree, a "little to late."
I'm reminded, about twenty years ago, a politician received positive peer feedback for recommending an all-night basketball program for inner city youth, however proposal was scraped when youth suggested they'd prefer computer science program instead.
Go figure!
I'm reminded, about twenty years ago, a politician received positive peer feedback for recommending an all-night basketball program for inner city youth, however proposal was scraped when youth suggested they'd prefer computer science program instead.
Go figure!
Ridiculously late...10 years???? Give our children an opportunity to compete.
Office of Strategic Partnership needs to address technology used at city hall. We will train all these kids to be computer savvy, yet city & state agencies will still be behind the times, and nobody will want to work for a municipality that still uses DOS.
4
I love this idea. I think it is important that we teach kids early that computers are more than devices for content consumption but that they are also tools that allow them to create as well.
I have a bachelors in Computer Science and when I entered college, I had a small amount of exposure to programming before college which was helpful but more exposure especially in high school would have been a great leg up. It would have been more useful to me than having to take foreign language classes.
I think an entire computer science curriculum similar to what you find in university might be overkill but a mix of programming, IT and exposure to some the of everyday productivity software (spreadsheets, word processing, presentation) would be more sensible.
Finding teachers capable of teaching the material will be hard but level of difficulty is not a good reason to not do something. Have schools partner with local colleges and the private sector. There are resources out on the internet now that could be used in the classroom.
I am sad to see so many people negative on this initiative. We have to do more than just teach kids reading, writing and math. If it turns out that the initiative does not work then it should go away but we need to try first.
I have a bachelors in Computer Science and when I entered college, I had a small amount of exposure to programming before college which was helpful but more exposure especially in high school would have been a great leg up. It would have been more useful to me than having to take foreign language classes.
I think an entire computer science curriculum similar to what you find in university might be overkill but a mix of programming, IT and exposure to some the of everyday productivity software (spreadsheets, word processing, presentation) would be more sensible.
Finding teachers capable of teaching the material will be hard but level of difficulty is not a good reason to not do something. Have schools partner with local colleges and the private sector. There are resources out on the internet now that could be used in the classroom.
I am sad to see so many people negative on this initiative. We have to do more than just teach kids reading, writing and math. If it turns out that the initiative does not work then it should go away but we need to try first.
5
The objective should be to give students an indepth exposure to computer software, both as a learning-aid as well as a productivity-tool. A spreadsheet such as Excel is a good example, from simple projects like setting up a personal budget to more advanced projects like plotting graphs so students can visualize simple math equations.
There are software for all sorts of things, Rosetta to help students pick up a foreign language, Encore to help students audio-lize ( I think I just invented a new word ) sheet music... all sorts of things.
That said, I don't think the mayor knows Computer Science if it smacks him in the face.
There are software for all sorts of things, Rosetta to help students pick up a foreign language, Encore to help students audio-lize ( I think I just invented a new word ) sheet music... all sorts of things.
That said, I don't think the mayor knows Computer Science if it smacks him in the face.
As a 20 year veteran of the tech start-up world, it is clear that the term "computer science" is being bandied around incorrectly in this case. What De Blasio seems to be calling for is the teaching of basic computer knowledge and computer skills, including simple programming -- at least I hope that's the case. Computer science deals much more with theory, which is unnecessary for most tech jobs and almost certainly beyond the average kid. Why do I have a feeling this program is just going to be another boondoggle -- sounds good, but accomplishes little.
7
The children may be well ahead of Bill de Blasio's requirement skills announcement. The wave of technology sweeps into early life like beginning pacifiers. The infant mind increasingly becomes accustomed to stimulating brain infusions provided by parents, I-Pads, TV and earlier curricular activity. They will enter Public schools well prepared and even become bored with what is offered .
1
Not every kid has access to an iPad or some other smart device. Many do and those kids could get left behind because they don't have early exposure to the tools that would allow them to compete in this economy.
3
His proposal implies that there will be instruction on computer programming. This is much more meaningful than teaching how to use computers/ipads/etc. Most people who use computers have no knowledge or idea of how to program them.
Having to learn about computer programming, in order next to instruct their kids, will send most primary school teachers into a panic. This is understandable. They don't have the basics. You have to build on solid foundations. Having had to undertake burdensome responsibilities in the past for which I was manifestly unprepared, I sympathise with them.
Schooling is not education. Instruction is not schooling. You don't teach computer skills in the sense of initiating pedagogical enquiry in the Socratic mode. You instruct. Nothing wrong with instruction when it's done well by knowledgeable and skilled instructors. Quite the opposite in fact.
Most children and adults need skilled instructors in order to acquire skills. Otherwise, it's self-learning from a book, or it's trial and error, which takes longer and may have unpredictable and undesirable outcomes. This is OK for something like computer skills but not for learning to drive, learning to fly, becoming a surgeon etc.
Schooling is not education. Instruction is not schooling. You don't teach computer skills in the sense of initiating pedagogical enquiry in the Socratic mode. You instruct. Nothing wrong with instruction when it's done well by knowledgeable and skilled instructors. Quite the opposite in fact.
Most children and adults need skilled instructors in order to acquire skills. Otherwise, it's self-learning from a book, or it's trial and error, which takes longer and may have unpredictable and undesirable outcomes. This is OK for something like computer skills but not for learning to drive, learning to fly, becoming a surgeon etc.
2
It is great to offer computer classes and they should do it, but these courses require real work and effort and many students are not willing to make the commitment of time and dedication that it takes to master the subjects. This does not mean that young people are not capable, only unmotivated.
2
The term "computer science" is not well understood by a great many people. A degree in Computer Science is an Engineering Degree and coursework includes the requisite engineering math. My AS Degree is in Computer Science, and I took the required math, up to Calculus, and the required lab Science, which also required Calculus. My BS Degree is in Computer Information Systems, which didn't require me to go further than Calculus with math, what I wanted to do didn't require an engineering degree. It would be more practical, and more feasible, to offer courses that would allow students to become computer literate, and once literacy is attained, to allow them to choose an area that they can be passionate about. Keep in mind, please, that not all students, not even a majority of students, will develop a passion for Computer Science. Let them be literate (in ALL areas) and then let them follow their passions. I have a grandson who is passionate about baseball. Quite literally his desire is to play professional baseball. If you tried to force him into Computer Science (as bright as he is in math) you would have a war on your hands. He is not the only high-schooler who would feel the same way. He has a lot of company.
6
I think the mayor is just making a political statement, he wouldn't know Computer Science if it smacks him in the face.
1
The practical way to do this is to have older students teach younger ones computer skills, for course credit. Define the objective down from the high-sounding and vague "computer science" to an identifiable set of skills - coding and using particular tools - that are analogous to learning reading and basic math. And it needn't take ten years.
2
Well, they can't teach reading, so maybe this will work out better.
12
Can they read? Can they find Albany on a map? China? Do they know who Eisenhower was? The Wright Bros?
31
the STEM centered job market does not require any of what you ask. Hence it should not be taught.
Back in 1964 I was teaching high school students and others interested in computers, programming languages. Especially the IBM 1401 systems, and 360 systems. Although there are many new languages today, back then a lot of study and application was necessary to understand what programming a computer would make it do.
Today it's piece of cake. Computer code can be learned by anyone, and the operation of a desk computer isn't hard at all.
I'm surprised at this article, and why it took so long to get these classes into NY SCHOOLS.
Today it's piece of cake. Computer code can be learned by anyone, and the operation of a desk computer isn't hard at all.
I'm surprised at this article, and why it took so long to get these classes into NY SCHOOLS.
4
No, computer programming CANNOT be learned by everyone. Having taught programming at the community college level for a decade, I have learned that students who struggle in math will struggle with programming.
Programming requires analytical thinking, concentration, and troubleshooting. Most students who have only limited math experience (less than College Algebra) lack these skills.
That said, I applaud the moves by these mayors. In today's world, computer programming should be part of a well rounded education for most students. Although the choice of programming language may change over time, the skill of programming remains essentially the same.
Programming requires analytical thinking, concentration, and troubleshooting. Most students who have only limited math experience (less than College Algebra) lack these skills.
That said, I applaud the moves by these mayors. In today's world, computer programming should be part of a well rounded education for most students. Although the choice of programming language may change over time, the skill of programming remains essentially the same.
2
Honestly. what good is all this effort in terms of potential future employment?
These companies have outgrow their loyalty and their responsibilities to both to America and to American workers.
They will simply outsource future Computer Science jobs to the lowest bidders in some far off country, and as they keep their profits offshore and build their I phones and gadgets with slave wage labor in China.
These multi-national traders , the new age robber barons, are more "traitors" than "traders". They are callous traitors to everything and everyone American, except their greed and bottom line.
Ain't modern global Capitalism wonderful?
These companies have outgrow their loyalty and their responsibilities to both to America and to American workers.
They will simply outsource future Computer Science jobs to the lowest bidders in some far off country, and as they keep their profits offshore and build their I phones and gadgets with slave wage labor in China.
These multi-national traders , the new age robber barons, are more "traitors" than "traders". They are callous traitors to everything and everyone American, except their greed and bottom line.
Ain't modern global Capitalism wonderful?
2
I.T. jobs go to India, not to China.
Most of the H1B and L1 visas are for I.T. jobs, and most are given to Indians, not to Chinese.
Most of the H1B and L1 visas are for I.T. jobs, and most are given to Indians, not to Chinese.
To accommodate this excellent discipline, just cut out 80% of the time teaching fractional math based on our rejection of the metric system.
1
Create a state certification in computer science. Don't let the educrats (education bureaucrats) create a mindless number of irrelevant requirements for teacher certification. Social studies teachers should not be teaching computer science, any more than they should be teaching math.
3
I hope this means that the kids will be taught coding and programming which are both great mental exercises and fun also.
Yes!! When my son applied to high school late fall, we were shocked to learn that only 6 schools offer more than 1 year of computer science/software engineering. Three of those schools are specialized, requiring an entrance exam. This is a gamechanger. Teaching disadvantaged kids how to code will change lives and result in great social mobility among blacks and Latinos.
7
No reason to require computer science. Kids need to learn how to keyboard (typing without looking) and how to use Microsoft Word, which is in important job skill. That can be taught in middle school or high school.
A total and complete waste, because the vast majority of kids are not going into computer science and therefore don't need it. Might as well require courses in welding while he's at it.
A total and complete waste, because the vast majority of kids are not going into computer science and therefore don't need it. Might as well require courses in welding while he's at it.
21
not a bad idea actually. While you're at it, why not add a few more courses using your imagination along with meditation.
1
You don't know what computer science can do buddy
1
Welding is a good trade skill to pick up. Welding especially specialist welding, are in demand internationally. Australia used to issue immigration visas for specialist welders.
FYI welding is a science, physicists and engineers study it, in my days, from MIG, MAG to hydrogen embedded in interstitial space...
FYI welding is a science, physicists and engineers study it, in my days, from MIG, MAG to hydrogen embedded in interstitial space...
2
So many countries are so far ahead of us in technology. We need to give all our children the tools to hack into our enemies business. Seriously.
1
Education is not job training. If Bill Gates and the "private sector" need programmers, let them invest in the training. Public schools exists solely for the survival of our democracy, not Silicon Valley.
And can't wait for Cuomo to pull the rug out from under this one...just because.
And can't wait for Cuomo to pull the rug out from under this one...just because.
16
Democracy point well taken.--
But obviously schools are not succeeding on that score either--we have government of, by and for the 1%.
Foreign languages are not mere job training either--but often they help.
As does mathematical literacy. Think of Comp Sci as communication with computers. We already spend a lot of time talking to robots and it will only get worse.
But obviously schools are not succeeding on that score either--we have government of, by and for the 1%.
Foreign languages are not mere job training either--but often they help.
As does mathematical literacy. Think of Comp Sci as communication with computers. We already spend a lot of time talking to robots and it will only get worse.
Hopefully oriented towards programming and design of what is called "the internet of things." It seems to be where the action is now.
These comments are full of mindless negativity, nitpicking, subject changing to other pet concerns, trumpeting of other agendas...
I don't envy school planners if this is the window on the kind of oh so serious tut tutting they have to deal with.
This is a worthy initiative. Everything else is a secondary point.
I don't envy school planners if this is the window on the kind of oh so serious tut tutting they have to deal with.
This is a worthy initiative. Everything else is a secondary point.
9
I agree.
1
The fear of math gives people real physical pain..this is a real study and I blogged it a few years ago from PLOS-one and it's been cited, so here's issue number one:) The more I read and write, the most this is true...
http://ducknetweb.blogspot.com/2012/10/algo-duping-plos-one-journal.html
http://ducknetweb.blogspot.com/2012/10/algo-duping-plos-one-journal.html
I was thrilled to wake up this morning to see that a major city is taking CS education seriously. I've written about this as well, but I'd love to see it taken even younger than highschool.
https://medium.com/@coderoshi/computer-literacy-as-minimal-education-2b5...
https://medium.com/@coderoshi/computer-literacy-as-minimal-education-2b5...
4
This is no game changer, and will do little to improve education. Few people need to ever learn to code or program anything for that matter - what we all need is how to use programs and how to learn to use new software as its developed. This doesn't require a computer science course - it requires that all course teach students and require students to use a suite of software: wordprocessors, data sheets, statistical analysis, presentation, video and photo editing, sound editing, publishing, website construction, to name a few kinds of programs that ALL students need to learn how to do by graduation. This is best accomplished by requiring all course to use these programs as part of the core course - not as a stand alone class. Training all teachers is going to be the challenge...but its the only way to seamlessly incorporate these skills into the classrooms..
3
I don't think computer science education is just meant to teach people how to write code. Rather, the benefit comes from learning how to think like a programmer - how to work through a problem logically, how to break down big problems into smaller, sub-problems, how to organize pieces of information in a way that makes sense, etc. It's this mindset computer science education gives students that really helps in the long run. Learning to use specific programs that create webpages or edit videos is great only to a certain extent. I can either be taught how to use a small subset of programs to accomplish some narrowly defined task or I can learn how to figure out, on my own, how to use any program or tool I need to get the job done. Students need skills to be able to adapt to a constantly changing world, not just skills to survive in the the world as it is right now. Learning how to think through a problem rather than just using an already available solution is the real reward here.
I think he mean't computer coding and not science. All in time mayor but first let the children discover tigr and Peter Rabbit.
Before jumping on the Mayors announcement there is learning for the sake of learning.
Socialist? Yes I am in some matters (not financial though).
Getting to the short of it, William Deresiewicz is better versed than I am.
Have no financial advantage, read Bill in Harper's magazine.
Before jumping on the Mayors announcement there is learning for the sake of learning.
Socialist? Yes I am in some matters (not financial though).
Getting to the short of it, William Deresiewicz is better versed than I am.
Have no financial advantage, read Bill in Harper's magazine.
I'm shocked at the number of negative comments here about this initiative. I am not a huge fan of DiBlasio, but I think he's got this one absolutely right. While it's true that many kids spend too much time on screens, teaching computer science is not the same thing as encouraging the "bad" kind of screen time. We need to think of it as a crucial language in which this generation should be conversant. In today's world and in the future to come, it will be as important -- perhaps moreso -- as learning a second language.
17
Do you know what you are talking about? Computer language is constantly changing, just as everything in technical areas. Code writers are in India, and knowing how to code isn't going to get you much of a job here. It's the ability to learn and think and then take what you've learned to the next step that prepares kids. Not computer science. And certainly not learning computer coding as a 'crucial language.'
Let's focus on improving basic math skills first. Without mastery of the fundamentals, this will be a waste of money at best, and a waste of a child's education at worst.
19
If NYC makes an effort to rehire/retrain retired and -off mid-career employees from the Computer Science field, this field could increase incomes for those forced into poverty by greedy corporatists and fill the needs of teaching.
Having finished a program where no one is finding work (due to skill levels), having used the funds for STEM teachers would have been a more advantageous investment by the Department of Labor.
Having finished a program where no one is finding work (due to skill levels), having used the funds for STEM teachers would have been a more advantageous investment by the Department of Labor.
1
Learning computer science can be a great motivator for children to learn math. Just think - they'll never ask "Why do we have to learn this math? What's this math good for, anyway?" again. The two can go hand in hand.
Absolutely correct. Few students have the math skills to handle real computer science. This is because few teachers have the knowledge and ability to teach them. Real science is hardly taught at all except at a few "special" schools like the Bronx High School of Science which has an endless waiting list for admission. Most secondary school science is dumbed down and has become a platform for political propaganda about global warming and environmental activism. The exceptions are AP science and math classes for kids who are seeking admission to good colleges. Sadly, many students have the ability but do not take these classes because they require real work and effort. Just offering the class does not solve the problem.
2
How can the public schools realistically expect to find enough qualified and competent teachers in a rapidly developing field such as computer science for a plan such as this when they can barely do the same for math, a subject that has been required since forever and at the pre-college level has barely changed in centuries?
8
Bravo! Hooray! Not a minute too soon.
Programming is the new manufacturing. Writing code is the new craftsmanship. Computer language is the new literacy. Using computers will be as necessary as the ink pen was 100 years ago.
Everything will have chips and chips are dumb. It's the code that makes them work. Once Intel or IBM or whomever creates a new chip, it's the code brings it to life. Apps, automation, cars that drive themselves, robot scanners at the doctors office, all are coming. Each can have completely different functions with new code.
I'm an obsolete electrical engineer. I don't write code and I should learn how to code. Let the young people get a head start. English, math, science, history, and computer coding should all be mandatory subjects from the 8th grade on.
Programming is the new manufacturing. Writing code is the new craftsmanship. Computer language is the new literacy. Using computers will be as necessary as the ink pen was 100 years ago.
Everything will have chips and chips are dumb. It's the code that makes them work. Once Intel or IBM or whomever creates a new chip, it's the code brings it to life. Apps, automation, cars that drive themselves, robot scanners at the doctors office, all are coming. Each can have completely different functions with new code.
I'm an obsolete electrical engineer. I don't write code and I should learn how to code. Let the young people get a head start. English, math, science, history, and computer coding should all be mandatory subjects from the 8th grade on.
24
Writing code is not computer science. Its grammar. Understanding and describing efficient algorithms is. My fear is that k-12 systems don't under stand the difference.
9
Absolute baloney. Teach Language, music, mathematics, art, and literature. Kids will learn more about technology from their smartphones and gaming consoles rather than their so-called "technology" curriculum in schools. Just a ridiculous notion. None, zero, goose egg of the technology giants are using skills they used from learning technology in an elementary or high school classroom.
6
I disagree that schools aren't teaching computer science. Teachers here in Texas at all levels have given their own time to attend trainings like Dteach at the University of Texas and CS First from Google to learn fun and interesting ways to integrate coding into all of the many the mandated requirements already in place. It is easy to disrespect public schools. Do something. Volunteer at your neighborhood school and see what hard-working teachers are doing to prepare our youth for the future!
2
So there you are. The solution to all New York City's problems. Now if da mayor would only mandate studying English, math, history, and general science today's youth could read the temperature on a thermometer, discuss what temperature was last week or last year, convert degree F to degree C and discuss what effect temperature has on the city's high crime rate.
4
English, mathematics, history, and science all are required subjects now, and we can see how well that has worked out. It is not at all obvious that it will be different for computer science. As with the subjects already required, there will be some who excel, some who fail, and some who muddle through and forget most of it within a year after graduation. Unsurprisingly, success at computer science will follow almost exactly the same pattern as success in other academic subjects, and reflect the parents and the attitudes they hold and enforce upon their children.
Required to offer computer science? Why not mandate it?
2
By the time this requirement kicks in, we'll have google cars and trucks, automated table service, and a bunch of automation taking the place of things we can't even know yet. But, hey, better late than never.
We need this yesterday. There are many retired IT personnel, some who may not need full benefits, who could pinch hit for a few years while you train career teachers. There are also IT workers who have lost jobs due to offshoring, some of who might make great teachers.
5
My how the term "computer science" has fallen. A "computer science" curriculum used to include things like machine language programming (the actually 1s and 0s), machine-level assembly language programming, and some understanding of digital electronics. The very low-level "programming right down on the metal" was what distinguished the "computer science" curriculum from the "programming" curriculum.
"Computer science" majors were the ones who wrote the BIOS, device drivers, and other "low level" stuff that allowed the operating system to run on the electronics.
"Computer science" majors were the ones who wrote the BIOS, device drivers, and other "low level" stuff that allowed the operating system to run on the electronics.
6
Great move, until Republicans cut your funding for education, as is one of their primary moves. Their logo is: "Keep 'em stupid and gullible, so they vote AGAINST themselves!"
7
There are plenty of simplified computer science/info tech applications that makes it easier then ever for young minds to start thinking about technologies! These courses should be taught as early as kindergarten!
Many high schools already offer AP Computer Science, which is a very basic Java course.
How about Mayor De Blasio announce a 10-year deadline to make sure that all kids in public schools can read, write and perform math at a 10th grade level before graduation? Oh, silly me. Far more easy to mandate that all schools offer a basic computer science course. It does nothing and feels good.
How about Mayor De Blasio announce a 10-year deadline to make sure that all kids in public schools can read, write and perform math at a 10th grade level before graduation? Oh, silly me. Far more easy to mandate that all schools offer a basic computer science course. It does nothing and feels good.
16
Actually, though not reported here, part of his new educational policy is a focus on reading skills. He will announce in detail tomorrow. But feel free to jump to conclusions about what is or isn't being taught in schools.
1
This is a great idea. Big tech companies have been encouraging (and profiting) off of computer illiteracy for the past decade. The commonly held belief that younger people instinctively and automatically understand computers better than their elders has, in recent years, been wholly untrue. As more of our financial and political lives are being conducted in a digital sphere, it's crucial that we graduate young people with a real understanding of how these systems operate.
1
Where is he going to get the money, the time and the space to do this in our fashionably small, underfunded schools? And what tech person, who could be making a lot more money in the computer industry, is going to get into teaching, a profession in which such a person will be constantly attacked and disrespected by the likes of Cuomo, Duncan, Bloomberg and all the promoters and consumers of a brutal anti-teacher and anti-public education campaign now sweeping the city and the state for years? As it is, high schools, especially those that serve English Language learners, are overwhelmed with language and other academic requirements. Unless the city and the state begin to explore practical ways to educate our students that address basic space and funding needs and recognize the social realities of our students, this might just be another area in which some schools will have to get around the requirements imposed by officials.
2
Could we offer grammar in the next 10 years as well?
30
Not that programmers are necessarily the most literate crowd but the intersection of illiteracy and programming prowess is nil. Concentrate on reading first.
7
Education needs to walk and chew gum at the same time. Do both.
I have a 4 year old grandchild that her dad has had been a computer geek & she is learning from him on their Apple computer & he taught me ..we had him on computers since he was in the third grade.....now he is a SGT. in the police department with a degree in engineering yet his friend has a computer science degree and lives in CA but he can't get a job so is this the answer to all the problems in the work field. another crazy idea from the mayor of NY..going to buy then computers also....... putting more pressure on kids who may be only average......it never ends with their crazy ideas.
2
How about first teaching every child to read, write, and arithmetic, then add a mandatory Money Management 101 course, so we do not have so many young people clueless about finance, especially the pitfalls of borrowing money, which their parents are also ignorant about.
45
Thank you! It's a tragedy to see how many alert and enthusiastic, but poorly qualified kids we hear from when we hire graduates from NY schools.
Despite keeping the ipad and computer games away from my seven year old, I find that she has a natural instinct in how to play games on the computer or use my iphone. She would happily spend hours playing around if I gave her the opportunity. In the elementary years it is so critical for our kids to learn to relate with other people. Their social and emotional development is more important. I find that technology and computers take away from their willingness to connect with people…her mind is engrossed in the iPad if she has it and she will find ways to get it back in her hands every opportunity she has. I have seen the impact computers have had on other children in my family….reduced ability to connect with other children and people. I say…keep it away from the elementary school kids as long as you can. The children need to be given more support in learning math and science at this stage. Also, if you must add something that may help later… probably typing skills.
P.S. The computer science course I was taught at college was obsolete by the time I started work life….and so of no use. Schools typically are not able to modify their curriculum quickly enough to keep up with technology changes.
P.S. The computer science course I was taught at college was obsolete by the time I started work life….and so of no use. Schools typically are not able to modify their curriculum quickly enough to keep up with technology changes.
A nation whose next generation knows nothing about earth science, basic chemistry, biology, and physics is probably not going to do too well going forward.
Exposing children to computer science is hardly a sound foundation. If you must, teach symbolic logic instead. That skill can be transferred to many fields.
Exposing children to computer science is hardly a sound foundation. If you must, teach symbolic logic instead. That skill can be transferred to many fields.
31
This is absolutely shocking. How did New York get stuck in the past? I taught introduction to computers to children from K through 8 in Europe in a Department of Defense school in the mid and late '80's, and shortly after that two years of computer science were offered to high school students. My grandchildren in another state have been using computers in their classrooms since K and are now in 4th grade. There really is NO EXCUSE for having deprived New York City or schools in any part of any state from having had at least some exposure to computer science in their schools.
8
It's not "computer science", Mr. Mayor, it's computer skills. 95% of public school students have neither the aptitude for nor interest in the subject - so let's force them to take a class they will fail. How about focusing on reading, writing and arithmetic, Mr. Mayor, subjects that NYC teachers can't seem impart to the vast majority of those who attend city schools?
5
Ridiculous. DiBlasio is just a Mayor, who is he to decide and dictate what is needed. Seems like all these politicians are like tyrants one way or another.
1
You know, computer science is not the end all be all, but it's something that everyone should be exposed to early on, part of a liberal arts education. Might demystify the subject somewhat. It's just basic, so why not start early.
6
Yes, but it's not "computer science". What we're REALLY talking about is "a survey of computer programming". "Computer science" is what engineers who are going to program right down on the bare metal (electronics) of the computer, without an operating system net to catch them, learn. That's why too technical and unnecessary for kids who maybe want to grow up to be nurses or other useful occupations.
I am completed in favor of the initiative, but wish it were to begin in 2016.
1
"Mr. Barnacle" is absolutely correct in his recommendation toward information technology rather than computer science. I've used my own IT knowledge since the mid-80s without a single formal course. While programing itself might be a challenge, my own liberal arts education offered me the skills to think and, in essence, figure out the machine in front of me.
Besides, many teachers will admit that they turn to their students when in need of technical assistance. These students have grown up with Google and wouldn't know a library card catalog from one from Sears. (Wait, do they still even print those?)
Besides, many teachers will admit that they turn to their students when in need of technical assistance. These students have grown up with Google and wouldn't know a library card catalog from one from Sears. (Wait, do they still even print those?)
You have a willing workforce in 'hackers', they haven't taken any education courses, but they known their stuff.Of course, half of them are prison.Think of it as 'work-release' program.
What all teachers make should be comparable to what engineers make---pay them more money.You can have it all tomorrow, if you listen.Do not make them take any education courses.
Or, you can wait 10 years, for some OK teacher who's not really into it.
What all teachers make should be comparable to what engineers make---pay them more money.You can have it all tomorrow, if you listen.Do not make them take any education courses.
Or, you can wait 10 years, for some OK teacher who's not really into it.
7
Except teachers ALREADY earn more than engineers, on a per hour worked basis.
You can look it up -- Bureau of Labor Statistics, 2007. It is THE TRUTH. Teachers earn more than other workers with similar education.
Why? they work much much fewer hours, and have benefits others can never dream of having. Engineers work all day, 12 months of the year and get 2 weeks vacation to start. Teachers work 6 hours a day, 8 months of the year -- get 14 weeks paid vacation from Year One, and unlimited sick leave and all kinds of holidays nobody else gets. Then they retire 15 years early.
If you calculate the value of that, they are more highly compensated than anyone but millionaires and hedge fundies.
You can look it up -- Bureau of Labor Statistics, 2007. It is THE TRUTH. Teachers earn more than other workers with similar education.
Why? they work much much fewer hours, and have benefits others can never dream of having. Engineers work all day, 12 months of the year and get 2 weeks vacation to start. Teachers work 6 hours a day, 8 months of the year -- get 14 weeks paid vacation from Year One, and unlimited sick leave and all kinds of holidays nobody else gets. Then they retire 15 years early.
If you calculate the value of that, they are more highly compensated than anyone but millionaires and hedge fundies.
An admirable and ambitious goal! Excited to see it put into action.
1
Dumb idea. Dumb priority. The kids today already know how to use a computer and school time needs to dwell on more important things. Acquiring real knowledge to understand the world is more important than taking time in a crowded school day to learn computer proficiency.
Do kids today have a sense of self and know who they are? Do they know how to think, how to communicate, how to put their ideas into a paragraph or how to feel and are they developing a set of values? Do they have emotional intelligence? Do they have an aesthetic appreciation of what is beautiful? Do they know how to question and problem solve? This certainly involves more than taking the square root of a number or learning trignometry. Do they understand other cultures and have an appreciation of those cultures? Can they use a foreign language?
We must understand that attending school to get high test scores and eventually score high on the S.A.T.'s has become more irrelevant in an increasingly complex world. I'm surprised to see De Blasio focused on computer science education as a route to successful learning in our public schools. Surely, we must do more than prepare students to become a drone in the work world.
Real school reform will center on the curriculum, the subjects taught and the knowledge and ideas that kids should be exposed to. It is the CONTENT of the education that is more important and not the skills of working computers.
Do kids today have a sense of self and know who they are? Do they know how to think, how to communicate, how to put their ideas into a paragraph or how to feel and are they developing a set of values? Do they have emotional intelligence? Do they have an aesthetic appreciation of what is beautiful? Do they know how to question and problem solve? This certainly involves more than taking the square root of a number or learning trignometry. Do they understand other cultures and have an appreciation of those cultures? Can they use a foreign language?
We must understand that attending school to get high test scores and eventually score high on the S.A.T.'s has become more irrelevant in an increasingly complex world. I'm surprised to see De Blasio focused on computer science education as a route to successful learning in our public schools. Surely, we must do more than prepare students to become a drone in the work world.
Real school reform will center on the curriculum, the subjects taught and the knowledge and ideas that kids should be exposed to. It is the CONTENT of the education that is more important and not the skills of working computers.
3
Why not do both?
School should bring kids alive, kids will do anything, if they are motivated.
School should bring kids alive, kids will do anything, if they are motivated.
2
I echo Mr. Wilson's comments. “If we can get them earlier, I think we can get them excited about it.” Computer literacy is part of STEM and we here @ York College (The City University of New York) has a long tradition of imparting computer literacy through NASA STEM Program called SEMAA (Science, Engineering, Mathematics and Aerospace Academy) to the greater York community and so far educated over 17,000 K1-9 students since 1999. K1-9 students are catching STEM excitement via SEMAA, now called MUREP Aerospace Academy, and we hope to continue doing so through funding from NASA and Con Edison.
1
Within 10 years?? No... NOW! NOW!
8
I've worked professionally as a programmer and engineer. Whatever programming language we teach to kids today will be outdated tomorrow. Certainly logic and math and fundamental programming should be taught as early as possible. My concern is they'll get bogged down in a specific language and bypass all the education that makes it easy to continue to learn new languages no matter one's age.
27
As always, we need to teach kids how to think and how to learn.
1
It doesn't matter which programming language they learn. A for-loop is essentially the same in every language. I taught myself BASIC in 1982, and this early head start helped me to learn FORTRAN, C, Assembly, python, Java, shell scripts, VHDL, and everything else. You have to start somewhere. It all compiles down to machine code (or digital logic) anyway - that's what they need to learn...
You are so right. As a professional engineer, long retired, I had during my career to learn four computer languages just to keep up with developments.
The public schools are unable to teach basic English and math because the unions keep shortening the classroom time. DeBlasio has no idea what computer science is. These kids who cannot read or write will not be able to employed in the computer field. Dumb idea and a waste of resources.
5
The average public school day in the US is 6 hours by CONTRACT. Kids get out as early as 1PM in High school and often 2:30PM in elementary and middle schools.
This is a fact. You can also do as I do, and watch the parking lot to see those union flunkies getting in their cars, and driving home by 2:45PM, so much for "working late". How often do kindergarten teachers stay late? Or band teachers? or typing teachers? yet they all get paid the same.
School is only 180 days a year, sometimes less due to "snow days". I recently learned there is not ONE SINGLE MONTH OF THE SCHOOL YEAR where children attend for 4 uninterrupted weeks -- there is a holiday or teacher conference day or something every single month.
How many Americans get this? what is the value of all summer off with pay? what is the value of retirement 15 years early with a $3 million pension backed by the taxpayers?
This is a fact. You can also do as I do, and watch the parking lot to see those union flunkies getting in their cars, and driving home by 2:45PM, so much for "working late". How often do kindergarten teachers stay late? Or band teachers? or typing teachers? yet they all get paid the same.
School is only 180 days a year, sometimes less due to "snow days". I recently learned there is not ONE SINGLE MONTH OF THE SCHOOL YEAR where children attend for 4 uninterrupted weeks -- there is a holiday or teacher conference day or something every single month.
How many Americans get this? what is the value of all summer off with pay? what is the value of retirement 15 years early with a $3 million pension backed by the taxpayers?
The number of days children go to school (180) has not changed in many years and the number of hours children go to school has also not changed in many years (6:45). The states with the best academic performance have strong teachers' unions while the states with the worst academic performance have weak teachers' unions.
Students in all schools do spend less time on the core academic subjects because the teachers are required to do test-prep for the mandated high stakes standardized tests staring with No Child Left Behind.
Students in all schools do spend less time on the core academic subjects because the teachers are required to do test-prep for the mandated high stakes standardized tests staring with No Child Left Behind.
That's it! That ought to solve all the city's problems with violence and homelessness.
2
I had computer science in public high school in 1974...amazing
7
Yup. 1982 for me...
1
How will New York City get the money for this ambitious initiative? As far as pay for industry vs teaching; most people I know in the field are contracted as a lot of jobs are overseas. People are very misinformed about industry incomes. Teachers with their benefits, numerous vacation time (especially now with all of the ethnic holidays), and their union making it almost impossible to lose their job, do not need to be afraid of a downsizing, merger, etc. are way ahead of everyone else. They just do not appreciate their situation.
8
Not all teachers in the US have strong unions backing them, and there is a misperception among those who don't spend time in public schools about the amount of free time teachers have.
2
@Janecek: I do know teachers and spend time with them. Some are members of my own family. So I know PRECISELY how much time they get off -- what they are paid (Rustbelt Midwest, so much less than NYC) -- what they get in retirement and at what age. I get to see them lazing about in hammocks all summer, sipipng iced tea, while I slog off to work in 90º humidity. I see them taking EIGHT snow days while I must slog off to work in -10º cold.
Shortly, I will them retire at 52, while I must work until 67 -- then get 90% of their final salary, while I get MAYBE 35% of mine. Oh -- and they can never be fired, and have automatic tenure, and TWO automatic raises each year (COLA and step increase).
The majority of teachers in the US are protected by very powerful unions. Even where they are not, they have the benefits of being in state retirement plans.
Shortly, I will them retire at 52, while I must work until 67 -- then get 90% of their final salary, while I get MAYBE 35% of mine. Oh -- and they can never be fired, and have automatic tenure, and TWO automatic raises each year (COLA and step increase).
The majority of teachers in the US are protected by very powerful unions. Even where they are not, they have the benefits of being in state retirement plans.
Call me old fashioned. I believe reading, writing and arithmetic should come first!
16
You betcha! It's hilarious to hear some lefty liberal nutjob calling for "courses in computer science" when his schools have utterly failed to teach basic math, reading, writing and history.
1
Schools like Travis Heights Elementary, in Austin, are already making strides through a blended learning model and an amazing technology teacher! So are other schools around the city whose teachers have given their own time in the summer to attend trainings with DTeach at the University of Texas. The most recent resource available to teachers (again on their own time and initiative) through Google's CS First Initiative.---A retired teacher from Texas.
The headline reads that computer science is required. The actual reality is the computer science is an elective. This is a rather egregious misstatement in your headline.
2
There are school librarians teaching coding and other aspects of computer science (including digital safety) now. Don't forget to tap into the often-forgotten school librarian population!
15
As a person with a B.S. in Computer Science, I can say I'm skeptical about this. They should probably focus on Information Technology, not Computer Science.
I get the feeling that the people pushing this don't know anything about Computer Science themselves, other than it sounds like the hot topic of the moment.
What's the end game here? What's the goal? Many computer science courses are about very obscure topics, like Discrete Mathematics, that will only get kids more frustrated and turned off.
After all this time, they haven't learned. Start with the end in mind -- think about what you want kids to know, then design the courses to reach that goal.
Computer Science for Computer Science's sake is not something I'd recommend. And very, very few people will be programmers, if that's what they're thinking.
Again -- what's the goal? What do you want kids to learn and why?
I get the feeling that the people pushing this don't know anything about Computer Science themselves, other than it sounds like the hot topic of the moment.
What's the end game here? What's the goal? Many computer science courses are about very obscure topics, like Discrete Mathematics, that will only get kids more frustrated and turned off.
After all this time, they haven't learned. Start with the end in mind -- think about what you want kids to know, then design the courses to reach that goal.
Computer Science for Computer Science's sake is not something I'd recommend. And very, very few people will be programmers, if that's what they're thinking.
Again -- what's the goal? What do you want kids to learn and why?
66
If you look at the 'Computer Science' Advanced Placement test, it is mostly rather elementary Java along with some politically correct nonsense.
You can try some of the sample Java multiple-choice questions in this PDF:
https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/digitalServices/pdf/ap/ap-computer...
Yes, you need to understand these basics, but actual commercial Java programmers operate rather differently. They're mostly just calling external libraries, getting a lot done in a small amount of code.
You can try some of the sample Java multiple-choice questions in this PDF:
https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/digitalServices/pdf/ap/ap-computer...
Yes, you need to understand these basics, but actual commercial Java programmers operate rather differently. They're mostly just calling external libraries, getting a lot done in a small amount of code.
1
Don't worry. They'll call it "computer science" but it'll be information technology.
4
I also have a BS in CS, and currently teach AP CS in a public high school, and I completely agree with you. These requirements ad more and more stuff to children burned out of testing. If Bloomberg didn't turn almost every large school into 3-4 smaller schools, it may have been more feasible. But in a school of 500 there may not be any student pasing the AP CS exam. What's worse, cities and states can follow Chicago's example and mandate every student take the class.
They are training teachers from other subjects but they just won't be good enough to produce real software engineers. There are nuances and creative thinking these teachers won't recognize because they'll know one or two ways of doing a problem, if at all. I've been to workshops.
The real problem is the dismal pay and working conditions for teachers. Like the article says, you can make so much more and not have all the politicians going for your throat. Even if you stay in teaching your entire career, you won't get to a base salary of $100,000 in the city. So good luck finding qualified people who aren't recent graduates looking for a stepping stone.
They are training teachers from other subjects but they just won't be good enough to produce real software engineers. There are nuances and creative thinking these teachers won't recognize because they'll know one or two ways of doing a problem, if at all. I've been to workshops.
The real problem is the dismal pay and working conditions for teachers. Like the article says, you can make so much more and not have all the politicians going for your throat. Even if you stay in teaching your entire career, you won't get to a base salary of $100,000 in the city. So good luck finding qualified people who aren't recent graduates looking for a stepping stone.
1
What??? We don't teach computer sciences in high schools? It is not a required subject along with math, english and chemistry? No wonder we need to bring in guest workers to work in our computer based industries and businesses.
20
'Guest workers', or H-1B temporary visa holders, get paid less.
There are plenty of Americans who can do IT, but at much higher wages, American-style wages.
Workers have been let go, all together.Then, foreign IT workers brought in.
Don't be fooled!
There are plenty of Americans who can do IT, but at much higher wages, American-style wages.
Workers have been let go, all together.Then, foreign IT workers brought in.
Don't be fooled!
16
As someone who has worked in the technology field for a very long time, I would be hard pressed to recommend a degree in computer science to any young person. That is not something I would have said twenty years ago.
Comp sci has gone from a lucrative career to one where decreasing wages and job insecurity are the norm. Just look at companies like Disnay, JNJ, and others who are quickly displacing their experienced IT workers with off-shore and H1B workers.
These days I would tell a bright young person to go into healthcare or possibly a pure engineering field. Most U.S. Companies now see technical professionals as modern day blue collar workers. They lament that fewer students pursue studies in fields like science or technology but then displace those workers who have and / or strive to pay them less than they do even in fields like HR.
The days of comp sic are over,mat least in the USA.
Comp sci has gone from a lucrative career to one where decreasing wages and job insecurity are the norm. Just look at companies like Disnay, JNJ, and others who are quickly displacing their experienced IT workers with off-shore and H1B workers.
These days I would tell a bright young person to go into healthcare or possibly a pure engineering field. Most U.S. Companies now see technical professionals as modern day blue collar workers. They lament that fewer students pursue studies in fields like science or technology but then displace those workers who have and / or strive to pay them less than they do even in fields like HR.
The days of comp sic are over,mat least in the USA.
13
We need guest workers because corporations don't want to pay American programmers the salaries they command. Look at what Disney did. The story was featured in the NYT.
19
Glad to teach. Give me same benefits and salary as suburban schools, relative to my experience (not entry level), in a safe area. Do not require MS in Ed, most with Cs degrees would not have it, and do they really need it to teach this ? Hire CS majors as coop students forba semester. Hire recent grads in CS and pay for their Masters with a fast track in summer.
Be as creative in hiring as in the plan, and it can be implemented.
Be as creative in hiring as in the plan, and it can be implemented.
19
Agree about the need for benefits and salary (which in my state is dependant on taxes)...not sure exactly what you mean by creativity in hiring. Teaching really isn't just like any other job. A person can be an expert in their field and not equipped to teach in a public school. Not sure what things are like in NY, but here in Texas we've had alternative certification for a while. (Someone with a degree can get certified without going through the regular program.) Of those who were alternatively certified that I've worked with through the years, the most successful were former social workers!
1
It's always entertaining to hear comments and opinions from people who really know nothing about the topic at hand. Really, you don't think you would need an Master's degree in education to teach? I'd love to see you get up in front of 30 students, many of which aren't really ready or interested, and get them to learn the ideas of passing parameters to methods, return values, and inheritance (the kind that relates to polymorphism, not what your daddy left you). To be a successful teacher of any subject, you need to understand how to reach a child at their level, not just know some stuff about a discipline.
I've been teaching mathematics and computer science for 20 years, and my content knowledge accounts for about 20% of my students' success. The rest comes from knowing what it means to be an educator.
I've been teaching mathematics and computer science for 20 years, and my content knowledge accounts for about 20% of my students' success. The rest comes from knowing what it means to be an educator.
24
Paul, many successful private school teachers do not have masters degrees in education. Yes, it is critically important that teachers know how to reach the children in front of them. But some people with degrees in education find themselves woefully unprepared in that department, and some people without them are very successful at it.
Require it of all elected officials, too. Nothing bogs down a government like out-of-date politicians. De Blasio should lead by example.
13
Within 10 years?
That's only 40 years too late, since it should already have been a requirement by 1985.
That's only 40 years too late, since it should already have been a requirement by 1985.
33
2015-1985= 30
2
Maybe Common Core should be replaced by common sense.
Within 10 years from now essentially adds another 10 - 1985 - 2025, im assuming thats what the original comment was saying...
Just think about all of those employees at the Dept. of Ed. and all of the politicians involved who get to steal this next round of bogus computer spending. Hey wait, do you think that maybe they have something to do with this new initiative from diBlasio? Hmmm. Hey Comptroller Stringer, you better tell your staff to cancel their vacation plans because your office is about to get really really busy.