Like many liberals, TF is great at describing a problem, but he offers no solutions, except to say that the world is changing, countries r no longer in control of their destinies, and the north south migration will only continue to pose more problems for the West. Fair enough, but that does not mean that individual statesmen cannot at least try to protect their own people, and one way is to discourage asylum seekers from even trying to get in and building walls and fortresses to insure that. Little ISRAEL, surrounded by enemies on all sides, has been able to survive by being more tough,more ruthless than its sworn enemies. Netanyahu, who knows and understands the Arab mindset--most of the migrants r Muslims--has declared "No mas!"He knows that the "refugee crisis" is a bit of a sham, that the vast majority simply wants access to the bountifulness--read generous welfare payments--available in Western countries, far better than anything that Turkey, whence most of them had come, could offer, and so, being middle class with bank accounts decided to pay smugglers to get them to Germany. Just think that if all those able bodied men had remained in Syria to fight ASSAD, he might have been driven from power.TF ignores all of this, and prefers to focus on what Jules Michelet called the "duree de l'histoire!"Its all quite tiresome coming from him. He should have saved such a turgid column as the subject of a college lecture. Of no immediate interest.
11
An entire oped about climate change, microchips and walls, and not one word on the main driver of all this disorder, Religion.
The reason why Syrians are flooding Europe is because Sunni fanatics are fighting Shia fanatics sponsored by Iran, with Alawites siding with Shia in fear of their minority status. Christians, Jews and Yazidis are slaughtered or expelled from most of M.East because of Islamic theology.
Why arent Asian, European and S.American nations such perpetual hubs of violence and religious barbarism?
The reason why Syrians are flooding Europe is because Sunni fanatics are fighting Shia fanatics sponsored by Iran, with Alawites siding with Shia in fear of their minority status. Christians, Jews and Yazidis are slaughtered or expelled from most of M.East because of Islamic theology.
Why arent Asian, European and S.American nations such perpetual hubs of violence and religious barbarism?
23
We have a new paradigm, which creates its own irony. The US has and continues to open its doors to professionals, academics, and highly skilled workers from foreign countries. This makes sense from a parochial point of view. We are enriched by this immigration. But our gain is another country's loss. We cannot demand, much less hope for, the development of civil society that will create a "world of order" when we continue to take the talent and brains from the world of disorder.
15
Yes, Tom Friedman, especially to your last paragraph. When someone on NPR was talking about the cost to Europe of this year's immigrants, I heard myself saying, "But what of next year's costs"?
This is only the beginning, folks. We need to join hands with anyone willing and figure this thing out. We shall all be changed in the process.
This is only the beginning, folks. We need to join hands with anyone willing and figure this thing out. We shall all be changed in the process.
4
Maybe it was said already, but there will be pressure friom those who want to buy votes from future citizens to let our "fair share of " Syrians and all else into the US. But, we already have 12 million illegal economic migrants from our hemisphere. We as a nation can not handle more who , in fact, take more from the nation than they contribute. And, let us keep in mind that this group of migrants do not have even a semblance of Judeo-Christian values. We are infidels to them. And, when some of their group are radicalized( right off the internet), we will have a waive of home grown terrorists. But, if you say any of the above, you will be called a racist and bigot when in actuality you would like to have some security in the US and a chance at economic well being for our own people.
15
Mr. Friedman is correct. Either the world learns to deal with endless streams of desperate refugees from failed nations, or an international effort must be undertaken to create order in those nations and to empower their better citizens to build better societies. Call it "paternalistic colonialism" if you'd like, but it would be intended to improve lives rather than exploit resources.
8
This article also appeared in the WSJ. The same rationale, policy, is applicable to Mexico, Cuba, Latin America, etc. In an unstable world order, lies great conquest opportunities for the enlightened Western World. Ironically, the liberated people would welcome, be forever grateful for modernity, a humane way of life..
Wouldn't it make more sense, be a better long term strategy for the EU (led by German forces) to simply invade the lands refugees are fleeing from, kill all the enemy, abolish the primitive, heathen practice of islam, permanently occupy the land as Western colonies, repatriate the displaced people, institute Western rule? This long overdue historical recolonization of the middle east will necessarily have to occur sooner or later. I suppose it will be later, when the cost to accomplish same will be tenfold. And yet, it doesn't have to be..
Wouldn't it make more sense, be a better long term strategy for the EU (led by German forces) to simply invade the lands refugees are fleeing from, kill all the enemy, abolish the primitive, heathen practice of islam, permanently occupy the land as Western colonies, repatriate the displaced people, institute Western rule? This long overdue historical recolonization of the middle east will necessarily have to occur sooner or later. I suppose it will be later, when the cost to accomplish same will be tenfold. And yet, it doesn't have to be..
4
Friedman expresses well how Americans see the role of international diplomacy:
"Since World War II, U.S. foreign policy has focused on integrating more countries into a democratic, free-market world community built on the rule of law while seeking to deter those states that resist from destabilizing the rest. This is what we know how to do."
But actually WE DO NOT KNOW HOW TO DO THIS. The fact is that Americans do not really understand foreign cultures, and make mistake after mistake.
We tried to protect Vietnam for "democracy" and against the evil "communists," but we faced a humiliating defeat. Convinced that Saddam Hussein had "weapons of mass destruction," we invaded Iraq and easily vanquished the country, but were not able to establish a stable government.
Now we likely have bungled in Syria. Yes, Assad was cruel, but we seem to have effectuated something far worse in ISIL. It is this most recent failure which causes millions of refugees of which Germany has agreed to accept 800,000, about 1% of its current population.
We need to drop the insistence on Western forms of government. Democracy does not work when the people are starving. And we must learn that a major cause of unrest around the world is population growth.
China studied the works of American intellectuals, such as "the Limits of Growth" of 1972 by the Club of Rome. They introduced a remarkably effective one-child policy.
Controlling population growth must be a cornerstone of our foreign policy.
"Since World War II, U.S. foreign policy has focused on integrating more countries into a democratic, free-market world community built on the rule of law while seeking to deter those states that resist from destabilizing the rest. This is what we know how to do."
But actually WE DO NOT KNOW HOW TO DO THIS. The fact is that Americans do not really understand foreign cultures, and make mistake after mistake.
We tried to protect Vietnam for "democracy" and against the evil "communists," but we faced a humiliating defeat. Convinced that Saddam Hussein had "weapons of mass destruction," we invaded Iraq and easily vanquished the country, but were not able to establish a stable government.
Now we likely have bungled in Syria. Yes, Assad was cruel, but we seem to have effectuated something far worse in ISIL. It is this most recent failure which causes millions of refugees of which Germany has agreed to accept 800,000, about 1% of its current population.
We need to drop the insistence on Western forms of government. Democracy does not work when the people are starving. And we must learn that a major cause of unrest around the world is population growth.
China studied the works of American intellectuals, such as "the Limits of Growth" of 1972 by the Club of Rome. They introduced a remarkably effective one-child policy.
Controlling population growth must be a cornerstone of our foreign policy.
16
So, in an amazing flip, Friedman wants "Boots on the ground"!
Tom, you don't spell that out so let me help you. You want a utopian army of who? The answer is the North Europeans and Uncle -- your objects of massive scorn forever. Because you sure don't want UN troops from primitive places as muscle, do you? (Think recent African atrocities.)
And this army does what? Educate, pacify, feed and house? And when that's done, the Westerners all go home, having led the Locals into permanent peace and prosperity?
Get sober.
Buddy, what you can't face is this: either we (in the USA especially) allow nature to take place horrifically or we reimbark on a new Colonialism.
Your choice, Progressives.
Tom, you don't spell that out so let me help you. You want a utopian army of who? The answer is the North Europeans and Uncle -- your objects of massive scorn forever. Because you sure don't want UN troops from primitive places as muscle, do you? (Think recent African atrocities.)
And this army does what? Educate, pacify, feed and house? And when that's done, the Westerners all go home, having led the Locals into permanent peace and prosperity?
Get sober.
Buddy, what you can't face is this: either we (in the USA especially) allow nature to take place horrifically or we reimbark on a new Colonialism.
Your choice, Progressives.
8
I agree with what you say except the last sentence, as a progressive, I never supported the 'invasion' of Iraq and think going into Syria or other middle eastern countries is a recipe for even more disaster and more massive displacements of people.
This is an issue when people on 'both sides of the aisle' can come together. The Middle East has many countries overflowing with money, let them allow other Muslims who need refuge in.
This is an issue when people on 'both sides of the aisle' can come together. The Middle East has many countries overflowing with money, let them allow other Muslims who need refuge in.
11
"Since World War II, U.S. foreign policy has focused on integrating more countries into a democratic, free-market world community built on the rule of law..."
As for the "democratic" part, cf. Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, the UAE, Yemen, Egypt, Libya, Honduras, Uzbekistan, Suharto's Indonesia, Pinochet's Chile, the Duvaliers in Haiti, the Shah in Iran, Saddam Hussein after the Shah was overthrown...
The United States and the powers of Western Europe have a long history of plundering the resources of the Middle East and North Africa. They have drawn the borders, supported the dictators, and (sometimes) carried out wars to overthrow them later. There has never been a serious international, regional, or foreign occupier plan for dealing with the poverty, lack of jobs and infrastructure, unintended consequences, and mass migrations these wars create. This history is responsible for the power vacuums and resentments that enable groups like ISIS.
If people in the United States and Europe don't like what's happening now, they should carefully consider the ways their own governments are to blame. It won't help the situation right now, but there are many lessons for the future.
As for the "democratic" part, cf. Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, the UAE, Yemen, Egypt, Libya, Honduras, Uzbekistan, Suharto's Indonesia, Pinochet's Chile, the Duvaliers in Haiti, the Shah in Iran, Saddam Hussein after the Shah was overthrown...
The United States and the powers of Western Europe have a long history of plundering the resources of the Middle East and North Africa. They have drawn the borders, supported the dictators, and (sometimes) carried out wars to overthrow them later. There has never been a serious international, regional, or foreign occupier plan for dealing with the poverty, lack of jobs and infrastructure, unintended consequences, and mass migrations these wars create. This history is responsible for the power vacuums and resentments that enable groups like ISIS.
If people in the United States and Europe don't like what's happening now, they should carefully consider the ways their own governments are to blame. It won't help the situation right now, but there are many lessons for the future.
10
Friedman's initial comments about Republican presidential candidates actually shroud the main message of the article: he's actually saying that extreme responses in either direction will not work. Yes, being so wall-obsessed that we're thinking about a wall along the Canadian border is absurd; but on the other hand, "We fool ourselves that there is a sustainable, easy third way: just keep taking more refugees..." A lot of readers commenting here seem to be pitting what they view as a civilized, progressive openness to migrants against the "closed-mindedness" of Walker and Trump. But we're past the time when we can simply regard "openness" as a solution. I say this, by the way, as someone who wants a less restrictive, more liberal immigration policy - my only point is that simply saying "let more people in" no longer cuts it as a respectable, smart argument in the world order in which we now find ourselves. Should we allow in more refugees from the region than we do? In my opinion, absolutely. At some point, though, Europe and the rest of the world will have to acknowledge that the limit has been reached - and the limit will likely be reached long before all those in need of asylum have gotten it. What do we do then?
7
There are many etiologies of the disorder that Friedman describes. One of them is climate change. Over a chronic period, that might be the factor of greatest magnitude.
The acute problem with the Syrian refugees is a direct result of the Iraq War which Friedman enthusiastically supported. I'm glad your heart aches, Tom. Would not circumspection have been a better sensibility?
The acute problem with the Syrian refugees is a direct result of the Iraq War which Friedman enthusiastically supported. I'm glad your heart aches, Tom. Would not circumspection have been a better sensibility?
9
Chaos and revolution do not come simply from people feeling downtrodden. Rather, they come from people whose expectations have been raised to the point where they believe morally their position is unjustified and practically that they can do something about it. The rhetoric of democratization -- consumer even more than political -- has exploded expectations across the world. Couple that with the advertised, internet spread of "instant gratification" and you have the recipe for disaster, as political institutions simple cannot adapt fast enough to deal with the ensuing dissatisfaction.
Europe has been losing its sense of collective identity for decades. As a result, when a major problem such as mass migration or Russian aggression occurs, there is neither the creativity nor the political will to deal with it. Europe has lazily and complacently drifted into a collective amnesia as to why, after W. W. II, it began building transnational institutions in the first place. One hoped that the wars in the Balkans would have awakened Europe to its collective weakness and need for serious institutional reform. .
Meanwhile, the Middle East has barely changed in the century since T.E. Lawrence described it in "The Seven Pillars of Wisdom." It is still defined by clan, tribal, ethnic, and religious differences. ISIS, following on the heels of Lawrence, Nasser, and the Baathists. is merely the latest effort to transcend those divisions.
Europe has been losing its sense of collective identity for decades. As a result, when a major problem such as mass migration or Russian aggression occurs, there is neither the creativity nor the political will to deal with it. Europe has lazily and complacently drifted into a collective amnesia as to why, after W. W. II, it began building transnational institutions in the first place. One hoped that the wars in the Balkans would have awakened Europe to its collective weakness and need for serious institutional reform. .
Meanwhile, the Middle East has barely changed in the century since T.E. Lawrence described it in "The Seven Pillars of Wisdom." It is still defined by clan, tribal, ethnic, and religious differences. ISIS, following on the heels of Lawrence, Nasser, and the Baathists. is merely the latest effort to transcend those divisions.
3
(1) Wall based defense: Invincible? No.
(2) Boot based defense: Invincible? No.
(3) Consciousness based defense: Invincible? Give it a try. http://www.invincibledefense.org
(2) Boot based defense: Invincible? No.
(3) Consciousness based defense: Invincible? Give it a try. http://www.invincibledefense.org
1
Tom - how about joining the real world. In the real you will find that the average citizen of the US or EU does not want a flood of muslim refugees in their country, no more than the US wants more illiterate Mexican and Central American refugees.
You need to ask yourself why the refugees who come to the EU are refusing to register until they get to the country they want to go to with good benefits.
Are these people really refuges or aren't they really economic migrants looking for a country with generous benefits and handouts? If you ask yourself that question honestly you will discover the answer is YES otherwise why do so many want to go to Germany.
If you remember the refugees of WWII, they were thankful to be anywhere where they got food and shelter - you never heard the "I WANT" which is all these new migrants know what to say. I WANT - that is their slogan and that should tell you that they are nothing but benefit hunters looking for the most generous welfare and they will never leave unless forced.
Many do not even come from countries at war, they come for benefits - Bangladeshi, Pakistanis, Kosovars, Albanians etc. These are not refugees and do note deserve anything but a ticket home.
Wake up Tom, and see the real world for a change.
You need to ask yourself why the refugees who come to the EU are refusing to register until they get to the country they want to go to with good benefits.
Are these people really refuges or aren't they really economic migrants looking for a country with generous benefits and handouts? If you ask yourself that question honestly you will discover the answer is YES otherwise why do so many want to go to Germany.
If you remember the refugees of WWII, they were thankful to be anywhere where they got food and shelter - you never heard the "I WANT" which is all these new migrants know what to say. I WANT - that is their slogan and that should tell you that they are nothing but benefit hunters looking for the most generous welfare and they will never leave unless forced.
Many do not even come from countries at war, they come for benefits - Bangladeshi, Pakistanis, Kosovars, Albanians etc. These are not refugees and do note deserve anything but a ticket home.
Wake up Tom, and see the real world for a change.
8
In our popular culture, the current zeitgeist in America is best described by Marc Maron as “apocalypse management”. The anxiety we all feel reflects a shared dread that is reflected in Mr. Friedman’s description of the new world order. Our Manichean worldview of good and evil provides no useful solutions to the evolving economic and cultural collapse of vast regions of the world. And Europe, only recently united, is even less able than we are to resolve the complex humanitarian nightmare emerging from the failed 20th century solutions to regional poverty, ignorance and exploitation.
As the EU is flooded by Middle Eastern refugees, it's conceivable that an erosion of the social ruling bargain, established at such great cost by the 28 member countries of the EU, can catalyze the dissolution of that historic accomplishment. It can be the match that ignites the European super nationalism of the past. And it’s hard to ignore a similar trend toward nativism reflected in our own national politics.
The notion of a ruling social bargain defined as democracy - one that we share with the EU – should be the criterion for citizenship should any or all countries in the West attempt to absorb this flood of refugees. These immigrants have lived under authoritarian ruling bargains, and without intensive education concerning the rules and requirements of democratic governance, they cannot be assimilated. This is where coherent policy needs to focus.
As the EU is flooded by Middle Eastern refugees, it's conceivable that an erosion of the social ruling bargain, established at such great cost by the 28 member countries of the EU, can catalyze the dissolution of that historic accomplishment. It can be the match that ignites the European super nationalism of the past. And it’s hard to ignore a similar trend toward nativism reflected in our own national politics.
The notion of a ruling social bargain defined as democracy - one that we share with the EU – should be the criterion for citizenship should any or all countries in the West attempt to absorb this flood of refugees. These immigrants have lived under authoritarian ruling bargains, and without intensive education concerning the rules and requirements of democratic governance, they cannot be assimilated. This is where coherent policy needs to focus.
8
Friedman, the Times stable of mass immigration advocating writers and the editorial board as well as our political class 1% controlled oligarchy know perfectly well that that border walls are not needed to stop illegal immigration! They all just use dramatic rhetoric about "the wall" to distract the public from what would work, what citizens have a right to respect in a developed country democracy - the enforcement of the rule of law. Half of our illegals came in on visas and never left. Walls are irrelevant regarding them and also most would not illegally come here or stay if they were denied as the law requires the ability to get a job & access social services. The truth is that we have a "de facto open borders policy" orchestrated by a our political elites' treasonous sabotage of immigration law enforcement. All we need to do is train and require our over 1 million local and state law enforcement personal to identify and detain those they contact that are in the country illegally and have a streamlined system for turnover to federal agencies and a subsequent swift deportation procedure + the enforcement of our employment laws adequate to kill the "jobs magnet". Bankrupting fines on businesses and jail time for owners would largely stop illegal immigration with a zero cost to the treasury. But no! Friedman openly brandishes his treason of an insistence on the availability of the functional equivalent of an immigrant slave-wage class to our business owner nobility.
9
Tom, I hope you were joking about the idea about going into a country like Syria, taking out all of the bad guys and replacing that with what we imagine is a working, democratic style government ... this was tried and failed, it is called Iraq.
Others have noted the pressure of growing human populations. So long as human beings in some countries continue to have large families - one Syrian family spoken of recently on the Times had a family of nine, two adults and seven children - those who live in impoverished and war torn areas are bound to head toward Europe so long as the 'open door' policy is continued.
Human overpopulation is the number one problem facing our planet today, with a push to 'develop' all regions where people have lived for centuries with few amenities and a rural lifestyle. How many planet earths will be required to support 8 billion people, let alone 10 or 11 billion, all the while major corporations clapping their hands in glee at the prospect of all these new consumers.
Others have noted the pressure of growing human populations. So long as human beings in some countries continue to have large families - one Syrian family spoken of recently on the Times had a family of nine, two adults and seven children - those who live in impoverished and war torn areas are bound to head toward Europe so long as the 'open door' policy is continued.
Human overpopulation is the number one problem facing our planet today, with a push to 'develop' all regions where people have lived for centuries with few amenities and a rural lifestyle. How many planet earths will be required to support 8 billion people, let alone 10 or 11 billion, all the while major corporations clapping their hands in glee at the prospect of all these new consumers.
18
"It is why, when it comes to our borders, I favor only high walls with big gates — yes, control the borders but with more efficient gates that enhance investment, common standards, trade, tourism and economic opportunity in all three countries. Nothing would make us more secure." This is how most conservatives feel about the issue, but they get painted as wall builders without gates.
3
Typical response of a liberal, take a reasonable idea, extend it to the absurd and then criticize the original proposer as absurd and out of the mainstream of thought. Do you have doors and windows with locks even though a thief might still penetrate your house? Yes. Not so absurd? Neither is a wall on the Mexican border.
3
Typical response of a so called conservative. Ignore the actual argument being made and descend into cutesy ad hominem attacks.
2
But what? Many of the refugees seem to be exactly the Western-inclined people whom we’ve pinned our hopes on to fight for and rebuild their countries. We’ve just seen a true free Syrian army rise up; only they’ve decided their energies would be better spent getting into scuffles with Hungarian border guards.
6
Finally a Wise Person has said it. We have no alternative but to apply Pax NATO to impose some level of order and security in countries that are now erupting refugees. Sadly, the Bush/Cheney administration so poisoned this option that it is unlikely that we can pull it off.
3
Can you imagine leaders who advocated and oversaw the overthrow and killing of Saddam Hussein & Kadafi, and the attempt to do so in the case of Syria's Assad (thus creating ISIS) are still around, shamelessly pushing their ideas and careers though they have so failed and hurt their country and the world in so many ways? Cheney, W. Bush, and Wolfowitz harmed the USA and the world as much as any US leaders in the last 100 years, And Hilary Clinton and her advisers are directly responsible for the creation of ISIS and death and destruction to millions, and yet none of these folks have the honesty or courage to take responsibility for their failures. (Hearing Cheney or Hilary talk about Iran and military force to kill lots of Persians is like hearing the NRA talk about he latest school massacre.) 21st c. American know how to shoot people, threaten and carry out destruction, and how to bribe rich people, so that will be our policy, no matter who is elected in 2016. In weighing this article, it's important to know that Tom Friedman, in the most important political decision of his journalistic life, advocated the Wolfowitz-Cheney invasion of Iraq. The American power elite goes on making bloody blunder after bloody blunder, and it's doubtful they'll stop, because they lack the conscience to take blame or shut up.
10
What if?
What if a coalition of Western and Middle Eastern countries carved out a safe region inside northern Syria and or Southern Turkey for refugees? This region would be protected by the coalition to house refugees until Iraq and Syria are fit to live in again.
What if a coalition of Western and Middle Eastern countries carved out a safe region inside northern Syria and or Southern Turkey for refugees? This region would be protected by the coalition to house refugees until Iraq and Syria are fit to live in again.
3
I don't think a wall or a dome will suffice. We better build a giant rocket ship and live in outer space. I'd like to see those refugees try to get to us there!
2
I'm not sure what universe Scott Walker inhabits (the Kochs'?) but in the real one the poor are better off in Canada than in the U.S. and so have zero incentive to migrate.
Lots of Canadians do work illegally in the U.S. but to catch them the INS would have to swoop down on consultancy firms, IT and high tech, engineering, accountancy and the entertainment industry.
This is not the same as harassing farmworkers and refugees fleeing the killing zones the US helped to create in Central America.
Scott Walker's wall reflects nothing but the insanity of the GOP today.
Lots of Canadians do work illegally in the U.S. but to catch them the INS would have to swoop down on consultancy firms, IT and high tech, engineering, accountancy and the entertainment industry.
This is not the same as harassing farmworkers and refugees fleeing the killing zones the US helped to create in Central America.
Scott Walker's wall reflects nothing but the insanity of the GOP today.
8
For sure more enduring than the walls, domes, et al, are the three horsemen, all disguised with less ominous monickers. Should we ponder then who or what then is, or will be, the fourth?
1
Why can't we expect the citizens of the countries to stay and actually fix the problems?
3
I reluctantly suggest the return of colonialism. We can polish it and call it policing the world, but in the end we will have to go into "disordered" countries with boots on the ground and attempt to restore order while our soldiers are randomly killed by terrorists.
As Catton wrote, in "Overshoot" in 1980, we all know there are just too many people. The current population, let alone the projected numbers for 2050 and beyond, are way beyond the earth's capacity to feed and shelter. NO country is going to be able to absorb all these migrants and refugees. We need to do some serious thinking.
4
The highest of walls and the widest of borders, nor any dome can prevent a desperate Man and his family in fear of their lives from finding safer shores, however unwelcome they may find themselves to be. Mass migrations have occurred throughout Our Planet's history. Maybe, this migration of humanity from the Middle East is just one of those. Nothing will stop them because they have nothing to lose.
3
The story of the Earth is a story of mass migrations. I don't think any nation has yet been able to stop them.
1
Tom Friedman has a knack for directing his dialogues in carefully constructed ways for readers to feed on. Mother Nature, Moore's Law, Markets take back seat to Meddling; as in providing lethal weapons to overthrow societies and regimes with pseudo arguments. The current crisis is as much an externally precipitated one, that Friedman and others have carefully endorsed.
3
Seems to me, people leave their homes when things become unbearable or they can't survive. Sounds simple enough, but insisting that ordinary people with little means rise up against dictators or radicals who have unlimited resources to "help" themselves is fantasy. Never thought I would say this, but it's becoming clear that a "reset" in our mindset is in order.
I don't think living with the oppressive Cancers the likes of the Isiss, al-Assads, or Africa's Boko-Harams is productive containment--not when people start fleeing their disordered worlds. So a reset is in order. Wipe out these cancers (whatever it takes) and provide massive infusions of aid. Call it quasi nation building if you will, but thinking that building walls around our borders, risking re-contamination of cancer in healthy bodies is cheaper in the long run, is fooling ourselves. Give people a reason to stay put and fight for something that has value to them; food and jobs; and that will be cheaper and more rewarding in the long run.
I don't think living with the oppressive Cancers the likes of the Isiss, al-Assads, or Africa's Boko-Harams is productive containment--not when people start fleeing their disordered worlds. So a reset is in order. Wipe out these cancers (whatever it takes) and provide massive infusions of aid. Call it quasi nation building if you will, but thinking that building walls around our borders, risking re-contamination of cancer in healthy bodies is cheaper in the long run, is fooling ourselves. Give people a reason to stay put and fight for something that has value to them; food and jobs; and that will be cheaper and more rewarding in the long run.
3
TF makes some good points but may be leaving out the major fact the West created this world of have and have not's. Through imperialism and economic hegemony we have plundered countries, kept terrible regimes in power, and generally been a violent superpower concerned with our individual interests and using of natural resources. Now that we have everyone playing in our constructed system of international organizations we don't follow our own rules. We should be more involved with the current migrant crisis and take our share of refugees for not just a moral reasoning but a latent responsibility.
There are no easy answers here obviously but I certianly agree with Mr. Friedman that economic integration with Mexico and Canada as well as central America is a wise choice.
We have tried to help countries create western style democracies in places like Iraq and Afghanistan. The price tage was huge (to the tune of trillions of dollars) and the results have been at the very best - unsatisfying and ephemeral.
It is no surprise that people in these countries resent military invasions and being told how to run their affairs even if the system they operate under is an abject failure.
So what does that translate to in practical terms?
1. Contain the chaos. Keep the chaos within the borders of nations where it already exists and allow the people of those nations the dignity of fixing their own problems. This represents building "walls" around chaos rather than around our borders.
2. Selectively empower those nations to fix their own problems by promoting immigration of talented and educated people to the West to further refine their skills in hopes that they can reutrn to their home nations ansd be part of the solution.
If we allow unrestrained immigration, we take on the problems of foreign countires in chaos. Burdening the US does not solve the problem. It is just a feel good treatment of the symptom - not a long term solution.
We have tried to help countries create western style democracies in places like Iraq and Afghanistan. The price tage was huge (to the tune of trillions of dollars) and the results have been at the very best - unsatisfying and ephemeral.
It is no surprise that people in these countries resent military invasions and being told how to run their affairs even if the system they operate under is an abject failure.
So what does that translate to in practical terms?
1. Contain the chaos. Keep the chaos within the borders of nations where it already exists and allow the people of those nations the dignity of fixing their own problems. This represents building "walls" around chaos rather than around our borders.
2. Selectively empower those nations to fix their own problems by promoting immigration of talented and educated people to the West to further refine their skills in hopes that they can reutrn to their home nations ansd be part of the solution.
If we allow unrestrained immigration, we take on the problems of foreign countires in chaos. Burdening the US does not solve the problem. It is just a feel good treatment of the symptom - not a long term solution.
Another serious factor that demands attention is Lack of family planning due to religious dictates that's leading to overpopulation especially in weak/war torn countries (as we see regarding the present refugees) who are making their way to strong countries. Thus, these unfair over population issue will now have an impact on strong countries taking them in.
Of course another serious consequence of rampant thoughtless overpopulation is the overuse of Mother Earth's limited natural resources. Therefore, family planning and birth control and consequences if ignored are issues that demand loud and clear ongoing warnings. And that means probably first somehow transforming the thinking of religious leaders who turn a blind eye to reality. Yet, none of us will be holding our breath. And that's scary.
Of course another serious consequence of rampant thoughtless overpopulation is the overuse of Mother Earth's limited natural resources. Therefore, family planning and birth control and consequences if ignored are issues that demand loud and clear ongoing warnings. And that means probably first somehow transforming the thinking of religious leaders who turn a blind eye to reality. Yet, none of us will be holding our breath. And that's scary.
6
Accepting large numbers of Syrian and other Middle Eastern refugees here may be the right thing to do, but it brings a host of major problems that need to be addressed as quickly as possible. First, where does the government settle them and how does the government insure that they are integrated into the community? How do the governmental entities on level discover what the refugees work skills, are, educational level, language skills, and wants are? How do governmental entities find out what their intents are, in other words are they hostile to the U.S, and possibly trained terrorists or not? How do they view the society of the U.S. and its laws, norms, and religious diversity? How do school systems handle the influx of many new students, many of whom speak little if any English, may never have attended school, and how do school districts determine their intellectual abilities and levels are? Also, where do districts find the suddenly necessary bilingual teachers, mostly Arabic-English? Where does the money come from to handle these problems? Most local governments and school districts are already stretched to the limit financially. Answering these questions on the fly, is NOT the way to do so.
3
We have so much and so few excuses in the US. Our challenges should be relatively easy to solve. Let's put our own house in order first. These problems are caused by greed and religion. It doesn't seem that humans are capable of giving up either. Imagine a world where we gave up both and used commonsense, science, empathy and morality and avoided senseless wars.
2
Friedman celebrated the Arab Spring for months but conveniently has forgotten it entirely. The riots in Tunisia and Egypt were over a lack of bread.
The Arab Spring and self-determination were going to fix all that.
The result was more tyranny and the people don't have a slice yet.
Instead we see hundreds of thousands of refugees, mostly able-bodied young men who should be fighting for their homeland on the road looking for someone else's bread. The little Syrian boy who drowned was not fleeing climate change, or population growth or even civil war. The family was coming to Europe so his father could get his teeth fixed.
One more thing, Walker did not propose a northern border fence. When asked about the northern border he said that security on the northern border was a topic worthy of discussion.
The Arab Spring and self-determination were going to fix all that.
The result was more tyranny and the people don't have a slice yet.
Instead we see hundreds of thousands of refugees, mostly able-bodied young men who should be fighting for their homeland on the road looking for someone else's bread. The little Syrian boy who drowned was not fleeing climate change, or population growth or even civil war. The family was coming to Europe so his father could get his teeth fixed.
One more thing, Walker did not propose a northern border fence. When asked about the northern border he said that security on the northern border was a topic worthy of discussion.
2
I'd like to apply for the coffee concession. Maybe popcorn.
However before that, how about the guys who run the shows of dismay and dismemberment sit down and stop the bit players from continuing their game which is bringing chickens home to a foreign and uncomfortable roost .
It isn't hard to figure out peace must prevail and putting off or avoiding the decision to work toward that end without the use of force has to be the priority if those men who control the game of death they are allowing to be played want, assuming they care, any of us to take them seriously.
Our choices, if in fact they are ours, are not in the future they are now.
However before that, how about the guys who run the shows of dismay and dismemberment sit down and stop the bit players from continuing their game which is bringing chickens home to a foreign and uncomfortable roost .
It isn't hard to figure out peace must prevail and putting off or avoiding the decision to work toward that end without the use of force has to be the priority if those men who control the game of death they are allowing to be played want, assuming they care, any of us to take them seriously.
Our choices, if in fact they are ours, are not in the future they are now.
The two factors creating these crises and crippling our ability to deal with them are corporate greed and religious intolerance. Though they seem separate, they are intimately connected.
When the rich bend government to serve themselves without regard to the damage they do to the rest of the people, the only way they can hold power and forestall revolt is by fomenting hate and dividing the people they cheat and oppress.
When the rich bend government to serve themselves without regard to the damage they do to the rest of the people, the only way they can hold power and forestall revolt is by fomenting hate and dividing the people they cheat and oppress.
6
Here's a preview of your grandkid's world history book, circa 2100:
"The decision to turn away the desperate refugees; or to grudgingly accept a few but then marginalize and reject them, in segregated ghettos away from each separate country's native society, was the turning point that led to the wars. With no old national identity to return to, and no new national identity to embrace, the only familiar part of each refugee's world became Islam. This began the explosive, exponential, international growth of the Islamic State.
"The decision to turn away the desperate refugees; or to grudgingly accept a few but then marginalize and reject them, in segregated ghettos away from each separate country's native society, was the turning point that led to the wars. With no old national identity to return to, and no new national identity to embrace, the only familiar part of each refugee's world became Islam. This began the explosive, exponential, international growth of the Islamic State.
1
"The market, Mother Nature and Moore’s law are just revving their engines".
There is a fourth force: population growth. The United Nations recently revised its projected global population upward to over 11 billion by 2100, with almost all this growth occurring in developing countries. This growth will amplify the effects of the other three forces on migration pressures.
There is also a third, and more constructive, response that we can take in the face of these challenges: investment to make the nations that people are fleeing more prosperous and livable. It may be that we can only save ourselves by helping others achieve prosperity and the means to lead healthy secure lives. The devil, of course, is in the details.
There is a fourth force: population growth. The United Nations recently revised its projected global population upward to over 11 billion by 2100, with almost all this growth occurring in developing countries. This growth will amplify the effects of the other three forces on migration pressures.
There is also a third, and more constructive, response that we can take in the face of these challenges: investment to make the nations that people are fleeing more prosperous and livable. It may be that we can only save ourselves by helping others achieve prosperity and the means to lead healthy secure lives. The devil, of course, is in the details.
3
If we were able to look at and study the earth from a distance, I would suggest the current human population could be considered parasites. And that basically is what we are, multiplying at an exponential rate that is exhausting the resources of our planet.
I doubt there is little can be done about it. Only the responsible will curtail their production and the irresponsible resultant masses will continue with their parasitic actions.
No one knows the answer as no one can accurately predict the future, but it is a given that our current overpopulation, on which all economic models are built will probably be met with the same ignorance as the causes of climate change is being met.
I doubt there is little can be done about it. Only the responsible will curtail their production and the irresponsible resultant masses will continue with their parasitic actions.
No one knows the answer as no one can accurately predict the future, but it is a given that our current overpopulation, on which all economic models are built will probably be met with the same ignorance as the causes of climate change is being met.
3
The Real thing to be worried about, the real long term issue is for mankind is highly intelligent computers, software and algorythms that will, with their accompanying robots, be superior to humans in almost everything. The transformation is coming as fast as Moore's law, a loss of human jobs in all fields requiring a complete realignment of society, and government and its purpose and responsibility to all citizens in all nations.
1
How about empowering women? Around the world, projects that do this result in improved standards of living, reduced birthrates and hence population, increased educational opportunities for children, and more prosperity in the long run.
7
It's hard work dragging conservatives into the future when 2,700 year old technology seems so plausible. It doesn't really matter the wall didn't work. The only thing Friedman has a clue about is global warming, and every true believer knows that is just a liberal myth used to scare the credulous.
Computing power is wonderful, but the major use is to make phones more entertaining. Shipping coals to Newcastle is the cause of global warming more than any panacea to the human condition. How is labor exploitation abetted by cheap oil beneficial to humanity? People can't even figure out the harm of it when they can watch glaciers melt on their mobile devices.
It's time good old Tom got busy touting a hydrogen economy. A little more global cooperation news would be helpful instead of the steady stream of global competition. Who is it we are in competition with - other humans living on the same planet endangered by the same greed and avarice?
Computing power is wonderful, but the major use is to make phones more entertaining. Shipping coals to Newcastle is the cause of global warming more than any panacea to the human condition. How is labor exploitation abetted by cheap oil beneficial to humanity? People can't even figure out the harm of it when they can watch glaciers melt on their mobile devices.
It's time good old Tom got busy touting a hydrogen economy. A little more global cooperation news would be helpful instead of the steady stream of global competition. Who is it we are in competition with - other humans living on the same planet endangered by the same greed and avarice?
1
Assad gets support from Iran but the biggest problem is the Russian Bear. They have a navel base there ( remember Crimea and what happened when Russia thought they might loose the base there) and they supply a lot of Assads' arms. Hate to say it but sometimes things are better with a strong man in power. Just went to a lecture by a Copic priest, he said that they feel much safer under the present strongman in Egypt than they did under the brotherhood. We seem enamored with democracy but not when it does't go our way. We don't understand when the "winners" start punishing the "losers".
3
The problem is greed, prejudice and ignorance. The reader needs only to watch Washington Journal on C-Span, while following this excellent program on Twitter and Facebook.
The racial hatred exhibited by Americans and the lack of responsibility for our penchant for dumb wars is readily apparent. And as a culture, Americans waste too much. We live in a disposable society with our smart phones, tablets and I-pods, and we are more ignorant and indifferent than we have ever been.
Look at the problem of homelessness. What is Master Builder Donald Trump's solution to providing shelter for homeless citizens, including the wounded warriors who fought in senseless wars?
"War is nothing more than organized theft," to quote the late Dr. Jacob Bronowski.
Only when America starts to elect statesmen and women to serve in both the legislative and executive branches of government, will it become once more a leader of the free world.
We can only hope.
The racial hatred exhibited by Americans and the lack of responsibility for our penchant for dumb wars is readily apparent. And as a culture, Americans waste too much. We live in a disposable society with our smart phones, tablets and I-pods, and we are more ignorant and indifferent than we have ever been.
Look at the problem of homelessness. What is Master Builder Donald Trump's solution to providing shelter for homeless citizens, including the wounded warriors who fought in senseless wars?
"War is nothing more than organized theft," to quote the late Dr. Jacob Bronowski.
Only when America starts to elect statesmen and women to serve in both the legislative and executive branches of government, will it become once more a leader of the free world.
We can only hope.
6
We need to move away from this notion that democracy is for everyone. It is not. The definition of freedom differs based on circumstances. We might define freedom as free speech and ability to choose our own government but in many parts of the world freedom means freedom from poverty and hunger. So in some countries, i might add China as one, dictators probably have done a better job than any western type of democracy. The average Arab no longer cares for the Arab spring. They want peace and alleviation from poverty. Mother nature has already done its damage and left many poor nations worse off with failed monsoons and devastating floods. Moore's law managed to improve communication among the citizens of the world to an extent that everyone now knows where prosperity exists and market forces at best made one percent extremely rich and left billions of people in its wake. This is the world we live in and these are cards we are dealt.
5
If we're being honest, we shouldn't try to stop these refugees. We should welcome them.
The history of immigration in the United States is nothing less than the greatest success story in modern history. Our citizenry is quick to forget that from 1620, when the Mayflower brought over many of our ancestors, until 1921, there was basically no restriction on immigration. Our nation went from a remote backwater at the edge of the known world to the dominant power on the planet precisely because immigrants poured in, strove for a sweeter slice of the pie, and built the foundations of what we know as our country today.
I have spent many years studying immigration, and have had quite a number of acquaintances and friends who were immigrants and/or Muslim. Guess what? They are people like everyone else. Actually, that's not quite true. Immigrants are less likely to be on welfare, less likely to commit crimes, and are more likely (once they naturalize) to vote. And because they pay a larger percentage of their income in taxes than average, they are actually subsidizing the native born Americans.
This profound misunderstanding of reality is all the more shocking when you confront the fact that basically all Americans have immigrants that can easily be documented. None of our European ancestors had to worry about quotas until 1921. We should dump our racist quota scheme and open the borders, or at least make it fair. First come, first served would be an improvement.
The history of immigration in the United States is nothing less than the greatest success story in modern history. Our citizenry is quick to forget that from 1620, when the Mayflower brought over many of our ancestors, until 1921, there was basically no restriction on immigration. Our nation went from a remote backwater at the edge of the known world to the dominant power on the planet precisely because immigrants poured in, strove for a sweeter slice of the pie, and built the foundations of what we know as our country today.
I have spent many years studying immigration, and have had quite a number of acquaintances and friends who were immigrants and/or Muslim. Guess what? They are people like everyone else. Actually, that's not quite true. Immigrants are less likely to be on welfare, less likely to commit crimes, and are more likely (once they naturalize) to vote. And because they pay a larger percentage of their income in taxes than average, they are actually subsidizing the native born Americans.
This profound misunderstanding of reality is all the more shocking when you confront the fact that basically all Americans have immigrants that can easily be documented. None of our European ancestors had to worry about quotas until 1921. We should dump our racist quota scheme and open the borders, or at least make it fair. First come, first served would be an improvement.
39
Do ask the native Americans if immigration in the United States was the "greatest success." Given the number of native Americans persecuted and incarcerated and chased out of their homes and murdered, in some cases genocide of the entire tribe, and the subsequent destruction of their cultures, such touting of "success" story is utmost ignorance and arrogance.
REFUGEES will become ever increasing waves of humanity fleeing to escape famine, drought, epidemics, violence, injury and death. Currently, the refugees are primarily motivated by violence, injury and death. But as global warming increases, the reasons for refugees fleeing will more often be motivated by famine, drought and epidemics. Right now refugees flee to escape wars. As a result, they may experience deprivation of food, water and medicine in host countries where the infrastructure has not expanded to meet the needs of a great influx of people. But when people are subject to death from starvation, dehydration and substandard or no medical care brought about by shifts in the location of arable land, water resources and medical care, we will see new waves of refugees from man-made destruction of the global environment. Into refugees forced to leave for those reasons, they will also be forced to leave due to violence, injury and death, as countries begin to run out of food, water and medicine. What we must do now is an international outreach to teach conservation of food and water, as well as providing medicine that is able to remain effective, unrefrigerated, in harsh environments. As things stand, It looks like we're facing a massive reduction in the human poulation of the world in the long run.
1
Thanks for prescience and reason in the rhetorical void. I feel like I've been rescued from a lynch mob.
2
If the ones disintegrating first are those that are the most artificial, one would think the standard-bearer for that ominous distinction would have to be Iraq and that elusive concept of an "Iraqi people."
http://lifeamongtheordinary.blogspot.com/2015/04/democracy-and-self-dete...
http://lifeamongtheordinary.blogspot.com/2015/04/democracy-and-self-dete...
2
Iraq is a distant second to Israel in terms of the most recent inhumane artificial and unnatural "nation" in the Middle East that denies the natural divine equal certain unalienable rights of people under it's dominion. Iraq was carved out of three former provinces of the Ottoman Turk Empire by the French and British Empires at the end of World War I.
There was no Israel before Abram of Ur, Sumer (modern Iraq) and his heirs invaded and occupied Canaan and it's neighbors. The heirs of Abraham briefly ruled before the Egyptians, Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Macedonian Greeks and Romans came calling by conquest and diaspora. There has been no Israel since the Roman pagan military crushing conquest forced diaspora of it's Palestine Israel colony.
With their dueling scriptures and prophets Israel is an ethnic sectarian monument to invasion and occupation by Zionist Jewish exodus, Evangelist Christian crusade and Islamist Jihad.
There was no Israel before Abram of Ur, Sumer (modern Iraq) and his heirs invaded and occupied Canaan and it's neighbors. The heirs of Abraham briefly ruled before the Egyptians, Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Macedonian Greeks and Romans came calling by conquest and diaspora. There has been no Israel since the Roman pagan military crushing conquest forced diaspora of it's Palestine Israel colony.
With their dueling scriptures and prophets Israel is an ethnic sectarian monument to invasion and occupation by Zionist Jewish exodus, Evangelist Christian crusade and Islamist Jihad.
1
Good thing Bush invaded Iraq and destabilized the entire Middle East. Oh look apparently we live in a "post-colonial world". Well, tell that to the Greeks, to the Iraqis, to the Libyans, to much of the Third World. How long can this elite propaganda and hypocrisy last? Dear citizens, if you don't like refugees from other countries fleeing into Western countries, then maybe stop electing or listening to those calling for bombing and boots on the ground in those countries. Maybe stop creating the conditions of global climate and drought disaster with incessant consumerism and rapacious capitalism. The Beast is dying, not "revving their engines".
9
Why is it that Friedman is the only one who faces these issues?
Have you ever heard any politician actually articulate any of these issues, let alone create a plan to address them?
This speaks to our leadership crisis as much as it does to the faled state meltdowns.
Have you ever heard any politician actually articulate any of these issues, let alone create a plan to address them?
This speaks to our leadership crisis as much as it does to the faled state meltdowns.
3
Mr. Friedman does an excellent job of framing the issues, but he does not have the answers, nor does he pretend to. Politicians have to appear to have the answers When they run for office, so they avoid posing questions for which neither they nor anyone else has solutions. Hence the political discourse that is devoid of substance.
In defense of the politicians, I doubt we will understand the period of history into which we are entering until a few centuries have passed, for although there are precedents for the details of this period, the total picture is unknown territory.
In defense of the politicians, I doubt we will understand the period of history into which we are entering until a few centuries have passed, for although there are precedents for the details of this period, the total picture is unknown territory.
'...If we’re honest, we have only two ways to halt this refugee flood, and we don’t want to choose either: build a wall and isolate these regions of disorder...'
3. End birthright citizenship, for which there is no guarantee in the Bill Of Rights.
4. End family unification, except for immediate family members, spouses and children.
3. End birthright citizenship, for which there is no guarantee in the Bill Of Rights.
4. End family unification, except for immediate family members, spouses and children.
3
Don't elect Republicans who come up with ideas that will not work and who provide solutions to non problems. I hope you understand what I am trying to say.
There is a third way to halt the flood of refuges and that is to modify their living conditions so that they are not compelled to feel that they must leave their native country. The "environment" would be a lot more stable and peaceful if all of the civilized countries in the world would unite an impose a complete and total embargo the the shipment of all Arms to these unstable regions. To the best of my knowledge, none of these unstable countries manufacture their own arms; all of them get them from other countries who through their multinational corporations, are only too willing to sell/give them and of course reap huge profits as a result. There is no military solution to the problems these unstable nations are confronted with. The resultant death and destruction only generates more refugees. What good is the U.N. if it can't , in conjunction with the EU and the U.S., stop the shipment of arms to these regions. This is not rocket science!!!
5
That is a fine idea. Unfortunately, the US wants these wars to continue. As an example, when, in 2006, Israel last invaded Lebanon and bombed civilian areas resulting in thousands of deaths and injuries, the US actually lobbied to delay implementation of a UN cease fire because the Israelis hadn't finished their murderous rampage and were stalling for time so the US could rush more missiles to them. The Israelis weren't just attacking military targets, but made a conscious effort to level civilian infrastructure: bridges, airport & dock facilities, power plants, residential areas where the Shia minority were concentrated, not to mention 350 schools, two hospitals, sewage treatment facilities, and so on.
Similarly, in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, etc. the goal is not victory, but permanently weak countries. Weak countries can be manipulated, pillaged, and cannot challenge the powers that be. It was as clear as could be when Bush and his crew invaded Iraq without any plan for governance whatsoever. They couldn't even protect the Iraqi National Museum to safeguard its priceless treasures.
Sorry, but permanent war is the official policy, so you'd best get used to more refugees.
Similarly, in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, etc. the goal is not victory, but permanently weak countries. Weak countries can be manipulated, pillaged, and cannot challenge the powers that be. It was as clear as could be when Bush and his crew invaded Iraq without any plan for governance whatsoever. They couldn't even protect the Iraqi National Museum to safeguard its priceless treasures.
Sorry, but permanent war is the official policy, so you'd best get used to more refugees.
I agree that overpopulation, climate change and our current mass extinction event, and the tech-based rewiring of work and social life are the main proximate causes for the challenges we face. But none of these would be insurmountable if we addressed the real problem: clinging to old comfortable (one might say, conservative) ways of thinking.
Maybe we can encourage kids to learn how to think critically and gain a deep understanding of science. Sure, they might stop praying to the same God you pray too. But then they might also come up with an efficient desalinization technology. Or a safe controllable way to capture carbon out of the atmosphere. Or maybe they'll develop a meme that would give societies deeply entrenched in poverty the tools needed for lifting themselves out of that.
Maybe we can encourage politicians, economists, and business leaders to think about developing a sustainable economy that doesn't rely on infinite exponential growth on a finite planet. Maybe we can learn compassion for all humans, indeed all creatures, on this planet. Maybe we can start by guaranteeing education, health care, work, and a living wage for all of our citizens. Maybe 'radical' ideas like these really should be considered not as radical but as necessary to slow down the growth of all these regions of chaos and disorder.
Maybe we can encourage kids to learn how to think critically and gain a deep understanding of science. Sure, they might stop praying to the same God you pray too. But then they might also come up with an efficient desalinization technology. Or a safe controllable way to capture carbon out of the atmosphere. Or maybe they'll develop a meme that would give societies deeply entrenched in poverty the tools needed for lifting themselves out of that.
Maybe we can encourage politicians, economists, and business leaders to think about developing a sustainable economy that doesn't rely on infinite exponential growth on a finite planet. Maybe we can learn compassion for all humans, indeed all creatures, on this planet. Maybe we can start by guaranteeing education, health care, work, and a living wage for all of our citizens. Maybe 'radical' ideas like these really should be considered not as radical but as necessary to slow down the growth of all these regions of chaos and disorder.
9
Like everything else, this all comes back to money. The best way to bring stability to a region is to bring it prosperity. And the best way to bring prosperity is to bring cheap, plentiful energy. The US, Eurozone, and China need to come together an build a political framework that truly unleashes clean energy to the point that it makes coal look expensive and then export it to the world as a human right. There are few problems the world faces that can't be solved when there is cheap and clean energy at our disposal.
30
This sounds like pie in the sky to me. And while on its face the idea that prosperity contributes to stability has merit, it's a lot more complicated than that. Europe in 1914 was more prosperous than any portion of humanity had ever previously been. Man does not live by bread alone. And there is a vein of irrationality that runs through human history that no amount of prosperity can completely block.
Is not the middle east awash in cheap and plentiful energy?
Thank you Thomas,
In two weeks in the middle of the afternoon Jews around the world will again read the Book of Jonah. Jonah is cast ashore in Nineveh to deliver a message to the King of Nineveh from God that his Kingdom is about to be destroyed.
The King of Nineveh does what so few of us have the courage to do especially when we are rich and powerful and that is alter course. Too many of us believe in predestination and that our future is written in stone.
The United States of America is the first country to place the Book of Jonah as its cornerstone. We will write our future whether we take the action to alter our course or whether we choose to continue our path into the iceberg. Even our most rabid Theocons cannot deny what will happen if we just let it happen. The Book of Jonah tells us that the future is never written in stone.
In two weeks in the middle of the afternoon Jews around the world will again read the Book of Jonah. Jonah is cast ashore in Nineveh to deliver a message to the King of Nineveh from God that his Kingdom is about to be destroyed.
The King of Nineveh does what so few of us have the courage to do especially when we are rich and powerful and that is alter course. Too many of us believe in predestination and that our future is written in stone.
The United States of America is the first country to place the Book of Jonah as its cornerstone. We will write our future whether we take the action to alter our course or whether we choose to continue our path into the iceberg. Even our most rabid Theocons cannot deny what will happen if we just let it happen. The Book of Jonah tells us that the future is never written in stone.
1
So, when will countries in the West stop their current foreign policies that are causing the current refugee crisis?
The answer is never, as long as there is a profit in de-stabilizing countries to appease allies and make life horrible for those who you do not like
Humans created this mess, and it may have to run its course before it corrects itself, decades maybe
The answer is never, as long as there is a profit in de-stabilizing countries to appease allies and make life horrible for those who you do not like
Humans created this mess, and it may have to run its course before it corrects itself, decades maybe
1
Jeb Bush's position on the wall is the same as Jorge Ramos' position. They both feign concern that it won't work when their real worry is that it will. Western nations have no obligation to take in those whose culture doesn't mix with Western culture. If the US decides through its representative democracy to allow legal entry to people from Latin America, fine. Western countries are insane to allow entry to more Muslims.
4
If Friedman had written nothing more than, "If we’re honest, we have only two ways to halt this refugee flood, and we don’t want to choose either: build a wall and isolate these regions of disorder, or occupy them with boots on the ground, crush the bad guys and build a new order based on real citizenship, a vast project that would take two generations. We fool ourselves that there is a sustainable, easy third way: just keep taking more refugees or create “no-fly zones” here or there.", he would have covered the topic pretty well.
We don't want to fix the problem, and probably couldn't even with the best of intentions and huge resources. Ignoring the problem is becoming impossible; avoiding it ended when we invaded Iraq. So here we are: plenty of questions and no viable answers. This may be the saddest gift we leave our children ... and theirs.
We don't want to fix the problem, and probably couldn't even with the best of intentions and huge resources. Ignoring the problem is becoming impossible; avoiding it ended when we invaded Iraq. So here we are: plenty of questions and no viable answers. This may be the saddest gift we leave our children ... and theirs.
3
"crush the bad guys (in Middle East) and build a new order based on real citizenship"
This is what we have been trying to do since invasion of Iraq and way before. Turns out, the good guys are the bad guys too.
This is what we have been trying to do since invasion of Iraq and way before. Turns out, the good guys are the bad guys too.
1
Of the three largest forces on the planet — Mother Nature is the only one that is not artificial. And she is uncontrollable, no matter how hard we try. She wins every time, without exception.
Look out, because she's starting to make her move. She will win again, If we, as a species, can't make adjustments to accommodate her, we will join the dinosaurs as fossilized bones for future beings, possibly from another galaxy, to dig up and study.
Klaatu barada nikto.
Look out, because she's starting to make her move. She will win again, If we, as a species, can't make adjustments to accommodate her, we will join the dinosaurs as fossilized bones for future beings, possibly from another galaxy, to dig up and study.
Klaatu barada nikto.
1
A concise summary of the current global challenge and the specific components comprising that challenge. However, there is only one overall issue that must be addressed or all the other factors are meaningless and that issue is rampant overpopulation. If you have ever worked and traveled on other continents (e.g. Africa, Asia), you can easily understand that their collective populations can not continue to double every thirty or forty years. We are seeing the results of the most recent population "doubling" in the Middle East and Africa. You can also look just south to Mexico and observe what has happened as a result of their population explosion over the past thirty years. Europe, the United States, etc. it's all the same issue. Too many people and too few resources.
7
Yes, Friedman, you bring up a most serious series of thoughts about the real problems we face that this recent crisis exacerbates. Put in this light, through this column, we should pay attention to the market, Mother Nature, and Moore's Law. Excellent points about the history of providing order and the current reality.
1
Friedman forgets that we are not immune from the forces of the Market and Moore's Law. Automation, and capitalism's relentless drive to minimize inefficiencies - of which human labor costs is a major one - will only accelerate, and we're beginning to see the tip of where it's headed. The populations of developed countries are not immune.
3
The problem is that media does not make a distinction between displaced and uprooted people on the one hand and the migrants disguising as refugees tin order to reach rich countries for a better life.
4
Humans need open spaces to hike and discover nature and have private quiet thoughts.
Too many people are filling up these open spaces and killing nature by destroying forests and polluting rivers and cutting off mountain tops.
Over population is the world's biggest problem!!!. Especially in the deserts of the middle east. Germany will soon find this out. Germans love their forests.
In Australia, they built a rabbit fence to stop the over producing rabbits from destroying the land. The proposed fences could help the overproducing middle eastern desert people from overwhelming the West. The West seem to realize that a declining birthrate is a good thing.
Too many people are filling up these open spaces and killing nature by destroying forests and polluting rivers and cutting off mountain tops.
Over population is the world's biggest problem!!!. Especially in the deserts of the middle east. Germany will soon find this out. Germans love their forests.
In Australia, they built a rabbit fence to stop the over producing rabbits from destroying the land. The proposed fences could help the overproducing middle eastern desert people from overwhelming the West. The West seem to realize that a declining birthrate is a good thing.
7
patsyann, not only do humans need wilderness areas , but all the other life forms need those areas to survive also. BTW, western Europe has no wilderness areas left. They have forested areas loaded with towns, roads, railroads, and humans.
I am confused. Friedman states "It is why, when it comes to our borders, I favor only high walls with big gates." Isn't that almost word for word Trump's position on the wall with Mexico? With 40% of undocumented immigrants entering the country legally, generally by air, and then overstaying their visas, both Friedman and Trump will need the dome Friedman proposes sarcastically. I understand and agree that our borders need to be secured - but what's with the obsession with walls - not just Trump and the Republican clown car, but apparently Friedman also. How about an effective guest worker/temporary worker program instead of high walls with punishment for employers who hire undocumented workers once that program is in place? As consumers we will have to pay more for many items like food and for many, many services that are currently subsidized by undocumented worker exploitation, but we would have a fairer and more just and legal system. I expect the wall fear-mongering from the Republicans (their only path to the Presidency given our current demographics is fear-mongering), but I expect better from Friedman.
4
"Two generations" of sustained statesmanship to reverse and resolve the mess we are making? Whence such optimism, Mr. Friedman? I'm just a dude off the street with poor typing skills and a little education, but I'd estimate 20 or 200 generations, best case scenario.
To tell the truth, I'm even more pessimistic. "Never" sounds accurate to me. I am concerned that the pace of change we've unleashed through our climate impact, poor political leadership and superb capacity to grease the skids of technological change has far outstripped our collective human capacity to deal with it.
The world of disorder is largely a creation of the world of so-called order. Colonial Europeans patchworked the crazy quilt of the Middle East and we Americans barged into the Iraqi porcelain shop, guns a-blaze, with no idea how to pick up the broken pieces.
It's surely a problem that those who live in the disordered world have no idea how to clean up the mess either, but then, they didn't smash the bric-a-brac in the first place. We in the "civilized" world did.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
To tell the truth, I'm even more pessimistic. "Never" sounds accurate to me. I am concerned that the pace of change we've unleashed through our climate impact, poor political leadership and superb capacity to grease the skids of technological change has far outstripped our collective human capacity to deal with it.
The world of disorder is largely a creation of the world of so-called order. Colonial Europeans patchworked the crazy quilt of the Middle East and we Americans barged into the Iraqi porcelain shop, guns a-blaze, with no idea how to pick up the broken pieces.
It's surely a problem that those who live in the disordered world have no idea how to clean up the mess either, but then, they didn't smash the bric-a-brac in the first place. We in the "civilized" world did.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
1
What Friedman's article opens up, far as I'm concerned, is two principles: a) Charity Is Not Enough, b) xenophobia is what people do when they don't want to face up to the practical realities.
A sensible country would look at what Mexico's instability and problems cost us, decide the cost benefits of getting serious about doing something, and get on with it.
You know: a serious, no-kiddong Marshall Plan for Latin America, on the theory that that's GOT to be cheaper and more effective than what we're doing now.
Instead, we get crazinesses like Trump's: not a cheerful care on the world for what happens to Latin America after we suddenly dump five or ten million people on them, and the money they sent back home stops.
A sensible country would look at what Mexico's instability and problems cost us, decide the cost benefits of getting serious about doing something, and get on with it.
You know: a serious, no-kiddong Marshall Plan for Latin America, on the theory that that's GOT to be cheaper and more effective than what we're doing now.
Instead, we get crazinesses like Trump's: not a cheerful care on the world for what happens to Latin America after we suddenly dump five or ten million people on them, and the money they sent back home stops.
2
The "largest forces on the planet [include] market globalization tying the world ever more tightly together ... Since World War II, U.S. ... has focused on integrating more countries into a democratic, free-market world community built on the rule of law while seeking to deter those states that resist...."
This is more American mythology. "Making the world safe for democracy" really means making it safe for mega "corporatocracy"--rule by transnational corporations (some say the essence of fascism--stripped of Nazism.)
Thus US policy sought to make Central and South America safe for corporate investment--aka takeover. United Fruit is only the most famous example--giving birth to "Banana Republic"--a form of political-economy (not a GAP clothing store chain). Other notorious examples include Chile's Allende-Pinochet debacle and the Dominican Republic's Trujillo dictatorship--until both became embarrassments. And so on in Africa and the Middle East.
Smith's famous "invisible hand" made local communities prosperous only because foreign investment was too risky.
Transnational Corporatocracy (rule of the 1%) seeks to make foreign investment (aka plunder) a sure thing--all by the invisible hand of the CIA and other covert operatives.
Was this column ghost written? "Make the world safe for democracy" hardly means let the common people everywhere rule themselves--especially not indigenous people.
This is more American mythology. "Making the world safe for democracy" really means making it safe for mega "corporatocracy"--rule by transnational corporations (some say the essence of fascism--stripped of Nazism.)
Thus US policy sought to make Central and South America safe for corporate investment--aka takeover. United Fruit is only the most famous example--giving birth to "Banana Republic"--a form of political-economy (not a GAP clothing store chain). Other notorious examples include Chile's Allende-Pinochet debacle and the Dominican Republic's Trujillo dictatorship--until both became embarrassments. And so on in Africa and the Middle East.
Smith's famous "invisible hand" made local communities prosperous only because foreign investment was too risky.
Transnational Corporatocracy (rule of the 1%) seeks to make foreign investment (aka plunder) a sure thing--all by the invisible hand of the CIA and other covert operatives.
Was this column ghost written? "Make the world safe for democracy" hardly means let the common people everywhere rule themselves--especially not indigenous people.
1
Disorder in the Middle East and Africa is causing the current refugee crisis, and this will no doubt persist.
But Mr. Friedman warns that the future will bring other such crises--we should think about that.
Climate change will bring drought, coastal and island flooding, collapse of parts of the fishing industry; deadly viral and bacterial diseases are rising due to disturbed ecosystems and planetary travel; wealthy nations and corporations have been buying up water rights and good agricultural land in undeveloped countries for decades. These are only a few examples.
Do we, in our secure communities and lives, really believe that the people who will suffer the most from these changes will (or should) just stay where they are and deal with it?
But Mr. Friedman warns that the future will bring other such crises--we should think about that.
Climate change will bring drought, coastal and island flooding, collapse of parts of the fishing industry; deadly viral and bacterial diseases are rising due to disturbed ecosystems and planetary travel; wealthy nations and corporations have been buying up water rights and good agricultural land in undeveloped countries for decades. These are only a few examples.
Do we, in our secure communities and lives, really believe that the people who will suffer the most from these changes will (or should) just stay where they are and deal with it?
1
The artificial states are mostly in the middle east, with a few in africa. All a result of white europeans. The middle east states were created by the brits and the frogs following ww2 without regard to tribe or history in the area. The result is what we have now and bombs and guns won't fix the many problems. The area has to resettle with borders that make sense and this has to be done by the people in the area. The african states may be a little easier to solve if the corruption can be fixed, but again, the people directly affected will have to do it.
2
The Syrian refugees are running from the Syrian civil war, a war started by Iran puppet Assad, and kept going by additions of men and material from the Iranians and their client Hezbollah. Now that we are, for better or worse, lifting the nuclear based sanctions off of Iran as part of the Iran/Nuclear deal, we should instead institute sanctions against Iran (and Hezbollah), until they force Assad to the peace table.
German business is rushing to trade with newly opened Iran, while German cities will be over run by refugees from Iran's proxy wars. The cause of the refugees is the war, those who perpetuate the wars need to be sanctioned, or the flow of refugees will become a tidal wave.
German business is rushing to trade with newly opened Iran, while German cities will be over run by refugees from Iran's proxy wars. The cause of the refugees is the war, those who perpetuate the wars need to be sanctioned, or the flow of refugees will become a tidal wave.
2
Very true. And the Iran deal will make matters worse; it guarantees longer, nastier wars thru Syria, Iraq, and possibly Lebanon. Ergo, more refugees. But nobody in the Administration, certainly not in Europe, wants to think about it. Yes, they will bomb ISIS, but not Hezbollah positions. As long as the Assad-Hezbollah-Iranian-Russian axis remains, so will ISIS.
In our society it is not polite to discuss religion in a negative manner. But this is less about straight line borders and more about religious fanaticism.
Wherever belief is based on no rational evidence, insanity will be found.
Insanity is very catching in many of it's forms, especially the collective
insanity of religious fanaticism.
"From fanaticism to barbarism is only one step". Denis Diderot
Wherever belief is based on no rational evidence, insanity will be found.
Insanity is very catching in many of it's forms, especially the collective
insanity of religious fanaticism.
"From fanaticism to barbarism is only one step". Denis Diderot
5
And Israel what!......knowing that its people went through a terrible experience and to hear Mr. Netanyahu claim "the integrity of the country".. is just unthinkable. Mr. Netanyahu TEAR DOWN THIS WALL and let your people be part of the world
3
Europeans have 3 basic choices:
1. Accept the migrants, provide them sanctuary, education, training, and opportunity;
2. Send the migrants back, perhaps thereby forcing beneficial change on their countries of origin--or consigning them to death;
3. Make humanitarian statements, take in a few, and consign the rest to hellish "camps."
#3 is obviously the preferred solution, especially in the absence of a fourth and partial option that Michael Ignatieff suggested: getting the rest of the world to take some responsibility as well.
1. Accept the migrants, provide them sanctuary, education, training, and opportunity;
2. Send the migrants back, perhaps thereby forcing beneficial change on their countries of origin--or consigning them to death;
3. Make humanitarian statements, take in a few, and consign the rest to hellish "camps."
#3 is obviously the preferred solution, especially in the absence of a fourth and partial option that Michael Ignatieff suggested: getting the rest of the world to take some responsibility as well.
3
Friedman's summation of the three GREAT environmental trends is what we all need to cogitate most about. But there is another factor causing instability in the geographical range of unstable countries-- child socialization. When kids are raised learning that it is OK to hate someone, to despise someone because of clan or religion or leader affiliation, that it is OK to hate even an uncle, this leads to incessant strife. People in western Europe don't teach children to hate others, and so virtually nobody there wants wars. If public education can help overcome this pattern of child socialization, gradually there would be more political and social order there.
3
Helping our neighboring countries improve people's lot, so they won't feel compelled to migrate, escape misery and violence, may be best. But having charlatans (Trump and Walker come to mind) exploit xenophobic impulses, fear of the unknown and anger at government, and propose isolation by building a wall, is not only loony but the very definition of Demagoguery. If these vulgar rabble-rousers escape accountability, their folly may come back to bite us; and if it came to fruition, no one but ourselves to blame.
41
Globalization is like an iceberg. So far many just saw the shiny tip - from cheap bananas to slave labor, and all far away from us. Now the wave runs the other way.
6
What I find troubling, and hear constantly, is that the Middle East is a mess because the West didn't consider the different religious, tribal and regional alliances in the region and just carved out borders. The argument goes that had they took a closer look and respected the people and the loyalties noted above, we somehow would have had less conflict and it should have been foreseen.
Now, take present circumstances. Are we not expecting, actually demanding, Europe go through the same? Hundreds of thousands of refugees entering Europe regardless of what is most stable for the region. Most European countries are secular, Christian or a mix of both. Shouldn't we heed more caution than we did post WWII in forcing a hodge podge of cultures together like Picot Sykes?
So, it was a complete and violent disaster when it happened in the Middle East but somehow fairy dust will descent on Europe and the same thing done decades ago will somehow have a different, peaceful end in Europe?
Beyond, doubtful.
Now, take present circumstances. Are we not expecting, actually demanding, Europe go through the same? Hundreds of thousands of refugees entering Europe regardless of what is most stable for the region. Most European countries are secular, Christian or a mix of both. Shouldn't we heed more caution than we did post WWII in forcing a hodge podge of cultures together like Picot Sykes?
So, it was a complete and violent disaster when it happened in the Middle East but somehow fairy dust will descent on Europe and the same thing done decades ago will somehow have a different, peaceful end in Europe?
Beyond, doubtful.
5
Under the current conditions, Mr. Friedman's conclusions are correct. Either wall off the problem, or launch a massive invasion and rebuild the place from the ground up. Both are enormously expensive with no takers.
There is another path, which is to change the current conditions. That would require the locals to stop killing each other for petty ethnic reasons, stop having so many babies, and accept modern education.
Then the super powers that created this mess with their straight lines should work with the locals and redraw those lines to where they need to be, along age old ethnic and cultural areas.
This would require the super powers to jettison their puppet rulers, arms buyers and oil buddies.
The best way may be the last mentioned. We (the West) created this mess through our self-serving alliances. If we would stop supporting that which cannot be supported, there may be a chance for internal improvements. The other end of the bargain would be for the locals to stop killing each other long enough for the healing to take place.
As a practical matter, neither will happen. The advent of ISIS reveals how dire the situation has become. ISIS mostly walked in and took over. The locals accepted them as an "improvement" over what we created.
Realistically, it is probably too late. The suffering will continue and the world will experience a massive relation of humanity. I always liked Middle Eastern food.
There is another path, which is to change the current conditions. That would require the locals to stop killing each other for petty ethnic reasons, stop having so many babies, and accept modern education.
Then the super powers that created this mess with their straight lines should work with the locals and redraw those lines to where they need to be, along age old ethnic and cultural areas.
This would require the super powers to jettison their puppet rulers, arms buyers and oil buddies.
The best way may be the last mentioned. We (the West) created this mess through our self-serving alliances. If we would stop supporting that which cannot be supported, there may be a chance for internal improvements. The other end of the bargain would be for the locals to stop killing each other long enough for the healing to take place.
As a practical matter, neither will happen. The advent of ISIS reveals how dire the situation has become. ISIS mostly walked in and took over. The locals accepted them as an "improvement" over what we created.
Realistically, it is probably too late. The suffering will continue and the world will experience a massive relation of humanity. I always liked Middle Eastern food.
2
Your conclusions seemed a bit confusing. The only way to stem the flow of refugees is to restore order at home (their home). For that to occur, one would need a world order, whereby all nations join in a common effort to allow each nation to be fair to its own. Bipolarity, like Russia and Iran supporting Siria's thug (Assad), while other countries are trying to get him out of office; this just maintains war, displacements, killings and refugees suffering. For now, we have become complicit of a barbarian status quo, complacent of our feeble efforts to look the other way.
3
The trends described in this article have been around for a while, but, they fail to resonate with our political class, whose big picture thinking ability is limited to building walls, investigating Benghazi, defunding planned parenthood, and preserving the right of religious freedom in marriage license offices. Instead of Congressional hearings devoted to Hillary's emails, our representatives should have televised hearings on the three crisis pointed out in this article ---even if it only appeared on C-Span, at least we would have a governmental body thinking and talking about big picture problems. Such conversations. however, requires addressing big questions in a nation that votes for politicians offering small answers.
5
Cannot agree more with Jack K. For a European it is amazing to realize that that US politicians and general public largely wash their hands and just sit looking at the mess of the incessant flow of migrants that seek refugee in Europe. After all they are fleeing the destruciton and misery that US (and their allies)agression has created in the middle east for geopolitical and economic reasons.And the US is as usual safe with two Oceans separating it from the rest of the world. Too bad you do not have an Ocean to separate you from Mexico too then your "splendid isolation" would have been perfect..
5
I find attitude of Germany (both its government and its people) fascinating -- so hardened to the self-induced plight of the Greeks, yet so generous to the tens of thousands of Middle East refugees.
I would love for someone to research this German attitude and discover whether or not there is some conscious or unconscious need they feel to make up for what happened 75 years ago.
I would love for someone to research this German attitude and discover whether or not there is some conscious or unconscious need they feel to make up for what happened 75 years ago.
3
Is it wrong to say that these folks (the refugees) are in some slight way responsible for their own mess? These middle eastern countries are hell holes, at some point shouldn't the people who live there have done something about it?
2
No Mr. Friedman, if we're honest we will stop thinking in black and white, good vs evil terms and admit that we humans have entered a period of chaos where Mother Earth will have the final say. More walls and boots on the ground are very expensive, temporary solutions and will ultimately fail and I am amazed that you are still offering them up.
Humans are part of a global ecosystem, not separate from it. Healing will come when we stop treating the earth and its resources as a bank account with unlimited withdrawal privileges and work within the limitations of that system. The solutions are likely to come from the bottom up rather than the top down which is why it is hard for us to imagine them. There may well be a kind of breakdown before our societies can be built up in a more sustainable form.
Respect for the natural world and understanding our place in it, not above it, is a good place to start...
Humans are part of a global ecosystem, not separate from it. Healing will come when we stop treating the earth and its resources as a bank account with unlimited withdrawal privileges and work within the limitations of that system. The solutions are likely to come from the bottom up rather than the top down which is why it is hard for us to imagine them. There may well be a kind of breakdown before our societies can be built up in a more sustainable form.
Respect for the natural world and understanding our place in it, not above it, is a good place to start...
2
There is a Silver lining on this desperate interaction between order and disorder - the regional integration of India, Bangladesh, Nepal and Bhutan. This is the experiment of multi religious and multi ethnic cooperation to create order. Very little international press coverage went to this event and if this experiment is successful, it will demonstrate that hope of order is not dead.
4
it was Napoleon who said if you want to kill the dragon at the door cut off his head. How can we let a regime like Syria go on and on with Assad at he head killing his own people? We need to put hm down and put order in that country. Have some form of democracy. This is insane what is going on. To get Assad down would be a good start.
3
when discussing border walls, it is important to remember impact of walls on migrating wildlife and free flowing water routes which are often impacted and the environmental consequences of militarization in general upon lands which are often open, free and wild.
We don't need a wall with Canada. There is already one. My friend, a university educated Canadian scientist, spent 35 years trying to emigrate to the US, but he was always denied, because he has no family in the US. Sure he could have come as a homeless illegal immigrant and live in the gutter, but of course he would not do that. Anyway, it's not like Canadians are flocking to leave Canada for the US, why would they? So why is it impossible for a very few willing Canadians to emigrate to the US?
3
Ichogo,
My own experience has taught me that much of the problem stems from the fact that one of the major obstacles for working for the department of Citizenship and Immigration is the requirement to never ever under any circumstance use your brain.
My own experience has taught me that much of the problem stems from the fact that one of the major obstacles for working for the department of Citizenship and Immigration is the requirement to never ever under any circumstance use your brain.
While we all should be moved by the current plight of the refugees, we must not overlook the need to protect the well being of every countries citizens - is there any health screening going on within the relocating masses? The pandemic of 1918 killed a fifth of the world's population at the time, according to the National Archives. In its brief appearance, it hit more than 25 percent of the U.S. population, decreasing the average life expectancy by 12 years. Movement left unchecked could bring more than any of us bargained for and should be considered.
1
The political diatribes, especially on the "Right", remind me of the 1980s movie: "The Russians are coming! The Russians are coming!". In it, a small seaside New England town was panic-stricken when a Soviet sub arrived. The Soviet sailors were equally afraid of the Americans. But, once they got to meet, and get to know each other, they became close friends.
As in that satirical movie, the current Immigration topic in the
U. S. is highly racist, and it encourages some of the most divisive sentiments within our society. It is based on attracting political support, rather than based on any sort of rational ideas.
Why pick on the Mexicans, rather than the Chinese billionaires who can buy Green Cards (EB-5 Visas) with a $1,000,000 investment, other Asians with highly-coveted technical skills, Cubans who arrive within the U. S. are fast-tracked to Permanent Residency (Cuban Adjustment Act), or Canadians and Europeans who "look like us" and generally share our views?
Mexicans and other immigrants without any particular talents tend to vote Democratic. But Cuban-Americans, and others either with wealth or skills often vote Republican. As always, politics tends to trump all else in Washington.
http://thetruthoncommonsense.com
As in that satirical movie, the current Immigration topic in the
U. S. is highly racist, and it encourages some of the most divisive sentiments within our society. It is based on attracting political support, rather than based on any sort of rational ideas.
Why pick on the Mexicans, rather than the Chinese billionaires who can buy Green Cards (EB-5 Visas) with a $1,000,000 investment, other Asians with highly-coveted technical skills, Cubans who arrive within the U. S. are fast-tracked to Permanent Residency (Cuban Adjustment Act), or Canadians and Europeans who "look like us" and generally share our views?
Mexicans and other immigrants without any particular talents tend to vote Democratic. But Cuban-Americans, and others either with wealth or skills often vote Republican. As always, politics tends to trump all else in Washington.
http://thetruthoncommonsense.com
1
It is worth noting that the Republicans wish to build walls to keep out the disorderly "foreigners" who, in their illusion of the American dream, are intent on creating disorder within the tidy whitey supposedly Democratic USA. They neglect to mention or perhaps are in a classic case of Freudian denial, that there exists large pockets of disorder within our crumbling First World friendly country. Why just within the last year there were two large riots which sparked from decades of neglect of our inner cities in places as distant in geography as Ferguson, Mo and Baltimore, MD. In fact, the truth is that the Hispanic immigrants are inordinately law abiding people once they reach the US who spend most of their time either working or avoiding immigration, Border Patrol or racist locals who want to project their own feelings of hostily onto someone who is unable to fight back due to their legal status. When European leaders of great magnitude like Angela Merkel craft immigration policies allowing for the absorption of Syrian professionals feeling from their war torn country, they envision the contribution that the foreigners will make rather than their "disorderliness." If the people who have enough determination to risk their lives across the ocean in small leaky lifeboats clutching small children to their breasts, then trekking hundreds of miles toward a European sanctuary don't embody the human image of determination and hope, then we as a species have lost our humanity.
4
I don't know, Tom, look around there is plenty of chaos here. I would not go casting stones.
I wish Mr. Friedman had substantiated his assertion about what U.S. foreign policy has successfully done since WWII with some specific examples.
Would the successes he imagines include successfully prosecuting the Korean conflict? Engaging in Vietnam? Installing the Shah in Iran? Toppling Saddam? Co-dependently enabling the Saud family to sponsor global terrorism? Sponsoring Israel (advocating for 6 million Jews in a neighborhood of 400 million Islamists -- sentimentality aside, this is a giant strategic blunder - at least the way it's been handled to date)? Etc., etc.
The only "true" success may be negotiating disarmament accords with the Russians to avoid mutual destruction -- and then witnessing the implosion of the very flawed Soviet state (what role did the US play in that?).
Meanwhile, the clearest US policy has been to sell or give away arms -- enabling countries to blast each other to #@!! That's a form of militaristic Darwinism that hasn't really led to much in terms of positive and lasting outcomes -- let alone emergence of democratic states.
Perhaps the Iran Nuclear Deal provides a glimmer of hope for the future -- the idea of giving peace a chance -- even if there aren't ironclad guarantees it will succeed. But, then again, what if it does......
P.S. In the case of Iran, might it also be possible that lifting sanctions may create improved economic conditions there that will prevent a flood of more refugees from Iran?
Would the successes he imagines include successfully prosecuting the Korean conflict? Engaging in Vietnam? Installing the Shah in Iran? Toppling Saddam? Co-dependently enabling the Saud family to sponsor global terrorism? Sponsoring Israel (advocating for 6 million Jews in a neighborhood of 400 million Islamists -- sentimentality aside, this is a giant strategic blunder - at least the way it's been handled to date)? Etc., etc.
The only "true" success may be negotiating disarmament accords with the Russians to avoid mutual destruction -- and then witnessing the implosion of the very flawed Soviet state (what role did the US play in that?).
Meanwhile, the clearest US policy has been to sell or give away arms -- enabling countries to blast each other to #@!! That's a form of militaristic Darwinism that hasn't really led to much in terms of positive and lasting outcomes -- let alone emergence of democratic states.
Perhaps the Iran Nuclear Deal provides a glimmer of hope for the future -- the idea of giving peace a chance -- even if there aren't ironclad guarantees it will succeed. But, then again, what if it does......
P.S. In the case of Iran, might it also be possible that lifting sanctions may create improved economic conditions there that will prevent a flood of more refugees from Iran?
1
We, the US, England, and France created the mess in the Middle East going back to Sykes-Picot agreement, the Balfour Declaration, the putting of dictators in charge of the countries, and the creation of Israel out of Palestinian land.
But we only cared about loyalty to US and oil from those countries who had oil. We didn't care what happened to their people. And nothing happened. The world progressed and their people stayed poor.
Now as the dictators fight for the spoils, many of their people want to live like modern people in a modern economy.
But we only cared about loyalty to US and oil from those countries who had oil. We didn't care what happened to their people. And nothing happened. The world progressed and their people stayed poor.
Now as the dictators fight for the spoils, many of their people want to live like modern people in a modern economy.
1
What does the Syrian mess have to do with Israel? Find any stretched opportunity to blame Israel for "stealing" land, land which they paid for dearly. Israel is the one functional country there, hosting a large majority of Muslims, and a thriving Christian community. No wonder that makes some people angry!
No mention of the many lost opportunities for the Palestinians to have created their own independent country. But no, they have to take away all of Israel first.
No mention of the many lost opportunities for the Palestinians to have created their own independent country. But no, they have to take away all of Israel first.
Error-I meant a large minority of Muslim citizens. The Palestinians in the West Bank obviously aren't Israeli; a few in East Jerusalem have availed themselves of citizenship.
I see an opportunity for Europe, exemplified by Germany. If done right, by accepting these dispirited refugees fleeing "disorder", this can become a boon for demographically impoverished Europe. These refugees will be very motivated and grateful to be humanely received. They will adapt to German "order" - not a small matter. Hopefully, other European nations will comply according to their quota. Again, most could gain for the same demographic reasons.
As for the US, we share a huge responsibility in this "disorder" so why can't we commit to accepting some of these refugees. The only thing that will oppose accepting more refugees is our own "disorder".
As for the US, we share a huge responsibility in this "disorder" so why can't we commit to accepting some of these refugees. The only thing that will oppose accepting more refugees is our own "disorder".
The crisis in Europe distracts from the crisis in North America. People around the world have tha same basic needs of ways to survive and reach a reasonable level of safe comfort. People will work to achieve those ends but must be given reasonable opportunity to do so. Governments around the world must tax the rich to open doors for all. Transfer of wealth from those who have to those who don't is necessary to peaceful coexistence. Governments must provide work opportunities so people can earn a decent living. If they don't people will take from those who have to survive. Capitalism must generate wealth while government puts all to work when capitalists don't need their services. Stop giving away tax dollars and use them to open more job opportunities so everyone can earn a decent living. It's far better to spend tax dollars putting people to work than to pay for more boots on the ground. Either way the rich must pay to support the poor whether as warriors or as workers.
1
Friedman touches it lightly but any rational analysis shows the major problem facing the world is unrestrained and never ending population growth. It is estimated more people are alive today then the total human population that ever existed over the past one million years. We continue to experience exponential population growth. Those who have made ever increasing 'growth' their core belief refuse to recognize there are limits. Global warming, dwindling natural resources, increasing political instability - the root cause is overpopulation. For some strange reason it has become almost political suicide to discuss overpopulation or propose policies that discourage population growth.
9
Too little time at moment to do Mr. Friedman's exc. article the justice it deserves, I'd like to remind everyone he had article several yrs ago, Connect the Dots. A few yrs before (2002) that I sent him 150 articles from across globe, 12 from U.S., supporting very plausible explanation that female inequality was among core problems of world. I noted that NYT front pg Jan. 2001 had article stating India gained more pop. 1st wk of 2001 than all Europe in 2000. Much of my writing has linked power of compounding & fact that everything is interrelated are integral "forces" that will make many serious issues skyrocket out of control, & this surely is supported by Friedman's analysis of migrant problems, one of issues he's stating being pop. growth. But doesn't latter stem from inequality of females often being treated as baby machines? Doesn't U.S. have to set better example re severely curtailing rape & pay inequality (affects ability to parent), thwarting attacks vs Planned Parenthood, insisting on free contraceptive coverage for many, media exposing dysfunctional family courts esp. re abusive custody, etc. which surely also is part of picture of creating cycling anger, etc, that leads to guys becoming abusive as does excess incarceration? ETC???? Sorry out of time, BUT you get the picture- we surely need to "Connect More Dots" before the power of compounding wins! Just try doubling a penny for one month- results will amaze you as always do me, a former math tchr!
1
There are never 'only two choices'. The other choices may be in an embryonic stage. Or they exist in our blind spots, ideas we refuse to consider until a situation blows up and creates new opportunities that the old realities couldn't seem to contain.
Even when flipping a coin, there are other possibilities -- the coin resting on its edge, rolling off, or dropping into a crevice. Or being snatched in mid-air.
Even when flipping a coin, there are other possibilities -- the coin resting on its edge, rolling off, or dropping into a crevice. Or being snatched in mid-air.
3
I know it's an unpopular concept but 'isolationism' is a viable solution.
Let in people we want. Keep out those we don't.
Those we want include vast numbers of Mexicans who provide vital services to our economy without 'stealing jobs from Americans'.
I've never met an 'American' who wants to labor 10-12 hours a day in staggering heat for less than minimum wage and no benefits, picking produce. Republicans demonize these people without recognizing that their labors make our lives more affordable.
Let's keep out un-vetted persons of middle-eastern origins who cannot fairly conclusively establish that they aren't potential jihadists. It's not foolproof but it's workable.
Let's invite in educated foreigners who can contribute to our advancement as a society. Einstein was a foreigner.
The principle duty of a sovereign is to insure the safety and stability of it's people, within the sovereign boundries.
Jihadists are a threat when we let them in.
Keep them out.
ISIL is driving around the middle-east reeking havoc from the backs of pickup trucks. They are not presently a threat to us given the fact that the American military budget consistently exceeds that of the next twenty countries behind us. If and when we want to destroy them we can.
The only reason we resist isolationism is the desire by corporate America to expand it's markets.
Protecting the lives and interests of American citizens should be this sovereigns first priority.
Let in people we want. Keep out those we don't.
Those we want include vast numbers of Mexicans who provide vital services to our economy without 'stealing jobs from Americans'.
I've never met an 'American' who wants to labor 10-12 hours a day in staggering heat for less than minimum wage and no benefits, picking produce. Republicans demonize these people without recognizing that their labors make our lives more affordable.
Let's keep out un-vetted persons of middle-eastern origins who cannot fairly conclusively establish that they aren't potential jihadists. It's not foolproof but it's workable.
Let's invite in educated foreigners who can contribute to our advancement as a society. Einstein was a foreigner.
The principle duty of a sovereign is to insure the safety and stability of it's people, within the sovereign boundries.
Jihadists are a threat when we let them in.
Keep them out.
ISIL is driving around the middle-east reeking havoc from the backs of pickup trucks. They are not presently a threat to us given the fact that the American military budget consistently exceeds that of the next twenty countries behind us. If and when we want to destroy them we can.
The only reason we resist isolationism is the desire by corporate America to expand it's markets.
Protecting the lives and interests of American citizens should be this sovereigns first priority.
2
During college I worked in construction during the summer in the late 1960's in Miami. The crews were predominately black with a smattering of whites. The huge truck farms by the Everglades that grew winter vegetables and the vast sugar operations near Lake Okeechobee mostly black workers. I have watched in thirty five years the fast food workers in Texas change from white and black teenagers to Hispanic. I am not sure i agree with your premise.
Friedman's apocalypse does not apply equally.
Revolution and chaos do not come simply from people feeling downtrodden. Rather, they come from people whose expectations have been raised to the point where they believe morally their position is unjustified and practically that they can do something about it. The rhetoric of democratization -- consumer even more than political -- has exploded expectations across the world. Couple that with the advertised, internet spread of "instant gratification" and you have the recipe for disaster, as political institutions simple cannot adapt fast enough to deal with the ensuing dissatisfaction.
Europe has been losing its sense of collective identity for decades. As a result, when a major problem such as mass migration or Russian aggression occurs, there is neither the creativity nor the political will to deal with it. Europe has lazily and complacently drifted into a collective amnesia as to why, after W. W. II, it began building transnational institutions in the first place. One hoped that the wars in the Balkans would have awakened Europe to its collective weakness and need for serious institutional reform. .
Meanwhile, the Middle East has barely changed in the century since T.E. Lawrence described it in "The Seven Pillars of Wisdom." It is still defined by clan, tribal, ethnic, and religious differences. ISIS is merely the latest effort to transcend that, following on the heels of Lawrence, Nasser, and the Baathists.
Revolution and chaos do not come simply from people feeling downtrodden. Rather, they come from people whose expectations have been raised to the point where they believe morally their position is unjustified and practically that they can do something about it. The rhetoric of democratization -- consumer even more than political -- has exploded expectations across the world. Couple that with the advertised, internet spread of "instant gratification" and you have the recipe for disaster, as political institutions simple cannot adapt fast enough to deal with the ensuing dissatisfaction.
Europe has been losing its sense of collective identity for decades. As a result, when a major problem such as mass migration or Russian aggression occurs, there is neither the creativity nor the political will to deal with it. Europe has lazily and complacently drifted into a collective amnesia as to why, after W. W. II, it began building transnational institutions in the first place. One hoped that the wars in the Balkans would have awakened Europe to its collective weakness and need for serious institutional reform. .
Meanwhile, the Middle East has barely changed in the century since T.E. Lawrence described it in "The Seven Pillars of Wisdom." It is still defined by clan, tribal, ethnic, and religious differences. ISIS is merely the latest effort to transcend that, following on the heels of Lawrence, Nasser, and the Baathists.
2
First it was Mexican migrants. Now it's migrants from the Middle East and Africa. It makes no difference whether they're considered refugees seeking asylum or victims of war or poverty seeking a better life for themselves and their children. The fact is that these people have uprooted themselves not to become freeloaders, but because they want a place to live where they can work, feed their families and send their kids to school. It's truly disgusting when politicians, who seek no nobler cause than their own re-election, build walls to keep migrants out.
We started but cannot stop the wars that are forcing migrants
to seek shelter outside their home countries -- where their homes and livelihoods have been destroyed. We all have an obligation to help them resettle and make them welcome. It's called humanity.
We started but cannot stop the wars that are forcing migrants
to seek shelter outside their home countries -- where their homes and livelihoods have been destroyed. We all have an obligation to help them resettle and make them welcome. It's called humanity.
82
So how do you cull the sheep from the goats?
America did fight the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, and to an extent is responsible for Syria, but who is fanning the flames now?? The war should have settled by now and the countries should be getting along with rebuilding. ISIS is making sure their word is being spread and what better way than dispelling Muslim people to other countries. The more they war, the more Muslims they drive into other countries willing to accept them. When their people are accepted, you accept their faith. What better way to spread the Islamic faith. Maybe we should read the story of the Trojan Horse again and again. Just maybe, there are many Trojan Horses coming. How many Muslims will Israel accept Mr. Friedman??
Richard, you are right on target. The Mexicans risk their lives to cross the US Mexican boarders, much like the Middle East and AFrican migrants. There is nothing different. They come for a better life. The Mexicans come here because if they remain in Mexico, their families will starve. I just know that we will be taking in many of the migrants that arrive in Europe, but how can we do this when politicians are simultaneously talking about shipping out 11 million Mexican migrants ? What have we become ? Who are we ? Why don't the Mexicans who pick our produce in the fields for low wages have legal status? Yet, those migrants who are now in Europe will be be given automatic US permanent residence without having to do anything. This is not equitable treatment for groups who are fleeing poverty, wars or other reasons. I call it racism.
1
Mr. Friedman has certainly done his part in regional meltdown, stating with his vamping for the Iraq war. The entire Middle East was destabilized by massive military interventions, sanctions and other forms of warfare.
It's the height of disingenuousness to blame global, historical forces on the damage and consequences of launching genocidal Crimes against Humanity.
It's the height of disingenuousness to blame global, historical forces on the damage and consequences of launching genocidal Crimes against Humanity.
The order-disorder metaphor can just as easily be stood on its head. The Islamic world is a very ordered social system, so uniflavored that it easily facilitates authoritarian rule. In contrast, the secular West is highly disordered and is organized by Rule of Law which promotes individual liberty and free economic behavior under governments chosen by choice, not in the name of divine rule.
The Islamic world is puritan, moral, with behavior-binding rules while the West is decadent, pornographic, licentious and vibrant, expressive, unbound. (As the Iranian revolutionaries correctly point out, the U.S. is the Great Satan!)
The greatest exporter of extreme religious orthodoxy is Saudi Arabia. Why is this country an ally of the Secular Republic whose first clause of its First Amendment says: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"
And given the First Amendment, why is the U.S. the ally of any religious-based state in the Middle East? How far into the 21st century can the U.S. support religious parochialism? Should it even try? Are religious-based states sustainable?
The Islamic world is puritan, moral, with behavior-binding rules while the West is decadent, pornographic, licentious and vibrant, expressive, unbound. (As the Iranian revolutionaries correctly point out, the U.S. is the Great Satan!)
The greatest exporter of extreme religious orthodoxy is Saudi Arabia. Why is this country an ally of the Secular Republic whose first clause of its First Amendment says: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"
And given the First Amendment, why is the U.S. the ally of any religious-based state in the Middle East? How far into the 21st century can the U.S. support religious parochialism? Should it even try? Are religious-based states sustainable?
Friedman is wrong. A flood of Muslim immigrants will shift Europe from his "world of order" to the "world of disorder." Look at France, the UK, Sweden, Norway, etc. These are an alien people with a disruptive violent culture that will bring Salafism, niqabs, and terrorism to the heart of Europe. Statistics show most Muslim Arabs don't contribute to Europe's economy or assimilate. They commit violent crimes at a far higher rate than native Europeans, have high unemployment and low educational levels. Expecting any other outcome is wishful thinking contrary to the grim reality of most Muslims and their non-Muslim neighbors in Europe. They retain their extreme conservative culture and require/demand billions in welfare payments. Turn them away at the border, save the Enlightenment, and prevent the Islamisation of Europe.
What Friedman omits is the fact that the U.S. Acted militarily to destabilize the MidEast when it, without cause, attacked Iraq and then many small states in the area and in Africa. Further, the war on Afghanistan, a nation which never attacked us, has raged for over a decade, also creating refugees. The Iraq war created over 4 million refugees: the U.S. Has not assumed responsibility for the results of its attempts to steal Iraqi oil. The over $5 trillion wasted there should be paid as restitution to aid the refugees which the U.S. Military created there.
2
We are so obsessed about being the ethnic, racial, sectarian, religious, national or political “majority” that we are willing to abandon all the principles that have made us strong, smart, tolerant, intelligent, cooperative and hardworking people.
Being majority is a consequence of believing in and implementing the good principles, not a solution to our problems.
Let’s make debate about our governing principles, not the governing parties and politicians. We have witnessed so many times that the leaders abandoned all the principles they promoted on the campaign trail the very moment they got elected.
This advice is equally valuable to every nation on this planet.
If we implemented the good principles everywhere we would stop the constant flow of desperate refugees and immigrants…
Being majority is a consequence of believing in and implementing the good principles, not a solution to our problems.
Let’s make debate about our governing principles, not the governing parties and politicians. We have witnessed so many times that the leaders abandoned all the principles they promoted on the campaign trail the very moment they got elected.
This advice is equally valuable to every nation on this planet.
If we implemented the good principles everywhere we would stop the constant flow of desperate refugees and immigrants…
1
recently there was an article on the NY Times regarding an immigrant who finally made it to Sweden from Syria. Although he was grateful for being in Sweden, he was disillusioned. There were no Mosques close by, no one spoke his language, he was away from his family and friends. (I am not sure what he expected to find in Sweden, but obviously he didn't find it.) He is, however, taking language classes and given money to live on and medical care. When the basic structures family, religion, friends of a society are missing to the immigrant population no amount of basic needs will help. This has the very real potential of terrorist tendencies to develop.
1
For every problem under the sun,
There's a solution or there is none.
If there is one, find it.
If there's none, never mind it.
And the guilt of never minding it.
There's a solution or there is none.
If there is one, find it.
If there's none, never mind it.
And the guilt of never minding it.
Problem both bigger and smaller than indicated. Emigrants tend to be the more energetic members of the societies they leave, resulting in lower social performance. Problem is really limited to Arab mid east, Africa and Central America, all of which have smallish populations, suggesting special solutions not general despair
US should
--control inflows by a modern national ID system (like India's!) which also resolves voting issues
--restudy our immigrant history for learning not the prejudice which still surrounds our views on the question, despite common immigrant origins as a country --- message, it may take time, but people come here because they want to be in America, not convert it to where they came from.
--concentrate in the first instance on our own backyard -- central America and the islands -- to help those societies work well so people stay home
--help out in messes we may have created -- Iraq and Afghanistan in particular. Unconscienceable we cannot take in our former employees in danger but goes farther
--emphasis on nuclear families of genuine refugees and, fair or not, tsecular middle classes fromn the Mideast we can actually qbsorb
Military intervention in Mid East is fraught. Moreover, we have little offer between Shia and Sunni. Maybe we do need to work with Iran -- which is not going to dissolve to disorder -- to solve Syria and gang up on ISIS.
Solving self-reco0lonization by African elites? That would befor someone who knows more than I
US should
--control inflows by a modern national ID system (like India's!) which also resolves voting issues
--restudy our immigrant history for learning not the prejudice which still surrounds our views on the question, despite common immigrant origins as a country --- message, it may take time, but people come here because they want to be in America, not convert it to where they came from.
--concentrate in the first instance on our own backyard -- central America and the islands -- to help those societies work well so people stay home
--help out in messes we may have created -- Iraq and Afghanistan in particular. Unconscienceable we cannot take in our former employees in danger but goes farther
--emphasis on nuclear families of genuine refugees and, fair or not, tsecular middle classes fromn the Mideast we can actually qbsorb
Military intervention in Mid East is fraught. Moreover, we have little offer between Shia and Sunni. Maybe we do need to work with Iran -- which is not going to dissolve to disorder -- to solve Syria and gang up on ISIS.
Solving self-reco0lonization by African elites? That would befor someone who knows more than I
1
This opinion article lays bare troubling thoughts that have roiled my sleep for a decade. Prior to Dr. Friedman's article, I had not connected globalization, Moore's Law, and climate change as the driving forces underlying the spread of failing states and populations on the move. Instead, I had perceived the conflict as a balance of forces between religious totalitarianism and enlightened libertarianism. Either way, I see signs that we should worry about the sorry world we are leaving to our descendants, and we should dismay at the feckless leadership of elite western nations in the face of this historical challenge.
1
I was supposed to be harvesting and carefully weighing and tasting the largest and best tomato crop of my 68 summers but late blight has me planning next year's garden and preparing strategies to combat the fungus that led to the death of one million Irish peasants.
The picture of the young boy's lifeless body brought to mind a scene from the National film Boars of Canada's film The Coffin Ship Hannah. The death of two young Irish boys on the ice flows off Canada's east coast. The death of a million Irish peasants was also the result of an economic imperative. A million peasants died to protect an Irish economy based on the export of food.The economic importance of Ireland's grain, meat and dairy meant one million Irish potato eaters died and many more were forced to find refuge elsewhere.
I grew up with some of the survivors of the starvations. I remember the joys of sharing simple meals and the joy of spending time together. The Walkers, Hannities, O'Reillys and Reagans should remember best the importance of refuge in an all too inhospitable world. The supposedly Christian right should remember the real reason Sodom and Gommarah were destroyed but that was of course ancient history.
The picture of the young boy's lifeless body brought to mind a scene from the National film Boars of Canada's film The Coffin Ship Hannah. The death of two young Irish boys on the ice flows off Canada's east coast. The death of a million Irish peasants was also the result of an economic imperative. A million peasants died to protect an Irish economy based on the export of food.The economic importance of Ireland's grain, meat and dairy meant one million Irish potato eaters died and many more were forced to find refuge elsewhere.
I grew up with some of the survivors of the starvations. I remember the joys of sharing simple meals and the joy of spending time together. The Walkers, Hannities, O'Reillys and Reagans should remember best the importance of refuge in an all too inhospitable world. The supposedly Christian right should remember the real reason Sodom and Gommarah were destroyed but that was of course ancient history.
1
Should have said descendants of survivors and Film Board.
1
Perfectly said, Tom. In our too-eager and simplistic democracy fetish, we have denuded the world of historic forces of "order" (empires and autocrats) and we now reap the unending whirlwind. For the news media, of course, it's nothing more than a cacophony of "human interest" stories that stimulate and foster further this human tragedy.
2
Friedman raises a series of valid points including the U.S. taking responsibility for Iraq and Libya and the refugees created directly by removing the brutal dictators in those countries but leaving a power vacuum and chaos in its place, but leaves our responsibility in Syria out. Most of the blame for the carnage in Syria belongs to the butcher and thug Assad. But we the U.S. along with our allies Saudi Arabia, the Gulf states, Turkey and Israel have been fighting a proxy battle - very poorly - with Iran and Russia and Hezbollah in Syria. While much of the current mess in the Middle East can traced the disasteous Iraq War championed by Bush/Cheney and cheerled by Friedman and his Neocon buddies and was apparently a proxy war that we fought on behalf of Saudi Arabia, the Gulf States and Israel and our own oil-military-industrial complex and Evangelical zealots, it is Obama and Hillary Clinton that own the U.S. portion of the mess in Libya and in Syria and the ensuing refugee crisis. The U.S., Saudi Arabia, the Gulf States, and Israel have totally failed in their moral obligation to help the refugees from Syria, Libya and Iraq. Only Turkey has been exemplary in helping almost 2 million Syrian refugees. Friedman is right about climate change, global market and Moore's Law effects, but in classic Friedman style, he beliberately leaves out the core issue behind the Syrian refugees to deflect our responsibilities and that of most of our allies in the region.
2
The NYT reported Monday: there is no end in sight to the coming Third World and Islamic migrations to Europe.
The scores of thousands of Syrians in the Balkans, Hungary, Austria and Germany are only the first wave. Behind them in Lebanon, Turkey and Jordan are 4 million refugees from the Syrian civil war. Seeing the success of the first wave, they are now on the move.
Behind them are 2 million Alawites and 2 million Christians who will be fleeing Syria when the Bashar Assad regime falls to ISIS and the al-Qaeda terrorists who already occupy half of that blood-soaked land.
Now the Iraqis, who live in a country the prospects for whose reunification and peace are receding, have begun to move. Also among the thousands pouring into Europe from Turkey are Pakistanis, Bangladeshis and Afghans. When the Americans leave Afghanistan and the Taliban take their revenge, more Afghans will be fleeing west.
Africa has a billion people, a number that will double by 2050, and double again to 4 billion by 2100.
Are those billions of Africans going to endure lives of poverty under ruthless, incompetent, corrupt and tyrannical regimes, if Europe’s door remains wide open???
If Europe does not seal its borders, what is to stop the Islamic world and Third World from coming and repopulating the continent with their own kind, as the shrinking native populations of Europe die out???
What is coming is not difficult to predict.
“Liberalism is the ideology of Western suicide.”
- James Burnham
The scores of thousands of Syrians in the Balkans, Hungary, Austria and Germany are only the first wave. Behind them in Lebanon, Turkey and Jordan are 4 million refugees from the Syrian civil war. Seeing the success of the first wave, they are now on the move.
Behind them are 2 million Alawites and 2 million Christians who will be fleeing Syria when the Bashar Assad regime falls to ISIS and the al-Qaeda terrorists who already occupy half of that blood-soaked land.
Now the Iraqis, who live in a country the prospects for whose reunification and peace are receding, have begun to move. Also among the thousands pouring into Europe from Turkey are Pakistanis, Bangladeshis and Afghans. When the Americans leave Afghanistan and the Taliban take their revenge, more Afghans will be fleeing west.
Africa has a billion people, a number that will double by 2050, and double again to 4 billion by 2100.
Are those billions of Africans going to endure lives of poverty under ruthless, incompetent, corrupt and tyrannical regimes, if Europe’s door remains wide open???
If Europe does not seal its borders, what is to stop the Islamic world and Third World from coming and repopulating the continent with their own kind, as the shrinking native populations of Europe die out???
What is coming is not difficult to predict.
“Liberalism is the ideology of Western suicide.”
- James Burnham
3
Maybe we can start a few more wars, drop a few more drones, supply some more weapons, support those corrupt leaders with bales of money...
For long now, we've had areas of economic prosperity (what Friedman calls areas of Order) and economic desperation (what Friedman calls Disorder) separated by artificial barriers. Like most natural systems, the sheer force of osmosis the flow has been from desperation to prosperity. So, this is a very natural movement and we should re-think the true role of borders, immigration AND citizenship!
Now, the second element is "integration" without disturbing the immigrant-absorbing nations who fear a disruption in their homogeneity. This homogeneity is a source of comfort as it reduces the fear of the unknown - physical or intellectual. That homogeneity in this globalized world is receding fast and is at a point of no return. One interesting idea I came across while discussing the caste system in India (another example of heterogeneous YET highly segregated society) was that of EXOGAMY - inter_caste or inter_cultural marriages. All other forms of integration seem inorganic and unsustainable. Only way to come out with a culture that values SYNTHESIS over ASSIMILATION.
Peace.
Now, the second element is "integration" without disturbing the immigrant-absorbing nations who fear a disruption in their homogeneity. This homogeneity is a source of comfort as it reduces the fear of the unknown - physical or intellectual. That homogeneity in this globalized world is receding fast and is at a point of no return. One interesting idea I came across while discussing the caste system in India (another example of heterogeneous YET highly segregated society) was that of EXOGAMY - inter_caste or inter_cultural marriages. All other forms of integration seem inorganic and unsustainable. Only way to come out with a culture that values SYNTHESIS over ASSIMILATION.
Peace.
1
Friedman makes two errors: First, since WWII, our main foreign mission has been to prop up governments, often with the dictators he's talking about, to stem the tide of Communism (even when it was really just popular resistance). Second, his limitation of our options to two - isolate the disordered countries with walls or send in troops and take them over to prop up new governments - reflects his underlying view that Middle Easterners and possibly Africans are unable to govern themselves. There have always been voices of reason and moderation in these countries, but we have never supported them because we have seen the issue not as how can we support intelligent self-rule, but as how can we counter Russian (or now Chinese) influence, or maintain access to oil or other resources in order to keep our country thriving and powerful. Our only tools have been military ones. Friedman is right that global warming and environmental catastrophes will intensify the movement from vulnerable nations (the refugees then will be from low-lying countries in Asia). Thinking in terms of his two solutions is a dead-end. The world's and the U.S.'s aim has to become helping those in the disordered (to use Friedman's phrase) and less-ordered parts of the world in their own efforts to find solutions to their problems without falling into the trap of thinking that "help" means sending arms to the sides of conflicts we agree with.
1
yes the ideas of giant walls and domes are extreme, but let's look at why we are even talking about walls - both parties have totally failed to enforce the existing laws regarding immigration for 30 years, so the average person has no where else to look for a solution. what does it matter what the law says if we refuse to enforce it? we could save the cost of building a wall and beefing up all of this security, if we simply returned to their homes anyone here illegally, quickly and humanely. eventually the flood would ebb as people realized that they had no hope of beating the system and staying. so they wouldn't risk the trip. But that wont happen and the problem is too extreme; the republican party needs to embrace and propose the following policy:
1. announce an expansion of LEGAL immigration quotas to show that the party supports immigration, along with changes to make the process easier and quicker. make sure that the visa are distributed evenly worldwide to guarantee the most diversity.
2. enforce the current laws regarding ILLEGAL immigration. if you came her or stayed here without the legal process, you get a trip back to your home. quickly, without a lot of delay and paperwork.
3. charge the countries of origin a very stiff fine for each of their citizens that they failed to stop from crossing their borders. after all, borders have 2 sides, it shouldn't fall to us alone to secure them. use the millions in fees to build the wall.
1. announce an expansion of LEGAL immigration quotas to show that the party supports immigration, along with changes to make the process easier and quicker. make sure that the visa are distributed evenly worldwide to guarantee the most diversity.
2. enforce the current laws regarding ILLEGAL immigration. if you came her or stayed here without the legal process, you get a trip back to your home. quickly, without a lot of delay and paperwork.
3. charge the countries of origin a very stiff fine for each of their citizens that they failed to stop from crossing their borders. after all, borders have 2 sides, it shouldn't fall to us alone to secure them. use the millions in fees to build the wall.
1
The U.S. has aided and abetted this process since taking over from Britain the empire business.
We destabilized Iran when we installed the Shah.
Iraq when we cozied up to Saddam Hussein.
We turn a blind eye to the wahhabiism of Saudi Arabia whose major export is now jihad.
We encourage Israel which is experimenting with fascism.
Let us design a plan to rebuild the infrastructure of the entire world.
Let's put billions of restless young men and women to work recreating their countries and their neighborhoods.
Let's take the money we would spend militarizing the problem and instead send in the bulldozers and engineers.
Let's try to think outside of the box we have put ourselves into by thinking every problem is a nail just because we have the biggest hammer.
The 21st Century will not be any kinder to military adventurism than the 20th was.
Remember all those bodies from all those wars?
It'll get worse if we don't try something different.
We destabilized Iran when we installed the Shah.
Iraq when we cozied up to Saddam Hussein.
We turn a blind eye to the wahhabiism of Saudi Arabia whose major export is now jihad.
We encourage Israel which is experimenting with fascism.
Let us design a plan to rebuild the infrastructure of the entire world.
Let's put billions of restless young men and women to work recreating their countries and their neighborhoods.
Let's take the money we would spend militarizing the problem and instead send in the bulldozers and engineers.
Let's try to think outside of the box we have put ourselves into by thinking every problem is a nail just because we have the biggest hammer.
The 21st Century will not be any kinder to military adventurism than the 20th was.
Remember all those bodies from all those wars?
It'll get worse if we don't try something different.
4
The will to bring order to Syria is coincidentally increasing among European leaders. About time. The flow of people into Europe will slow when newcomers text their friends and family to say the money and housing spigot is out of order, which will come soon. Plus the pressure to turn Syria around; the Iranian deal will actually hurt that chance. Assad has to go. When Syrian refugees see the EU and America are serious about that, they will return home.
1
A post-colonial world without a hegemon will, as we are witnessing, suffer collapse at its weak points. Remember the decline of Rome? The deeper truth is that this reflects a decline in the prestige of Western culture. Fifty years ago the West was still a model for the Islamic world. Today that's no longer true. Religious fanaticism of all types grows in the absence of culture and order; the breakdown of western culture has been accompanied by a revival of intense religiosity, and not just in the Islamic world.
I agree that we should integrate more fully with both Canada and Mexico, but we need to do something about the Mexican Drug War, which has killed over 100,000 people and threatens to turn Mexico into a failed state. Perhaps it's time to legalize drugs and thereby cut off the cartels from the vast profits they continue to earn?
As for Europe's migrant/refugee problem, there is a third solution: deploy armed forces to prevent the influx. Europe's armies and navies are basically unemployed; this would give them something to do. Failing to arrest the flood of refugees means, eventually, the ascent of the Far Right in some countries, with profound (and probably bad) consequences for everybody.
I agree that we should integrate more fully with both Canada and Mexico, but we need to do something about the Mexican Drug War, which has killed over 100,000 people and threatens to turn Mexico into a failed state. Perhaps it's time to legalize drugs and thereby cut off the cartels from the vast profits they continue to earn?
As for Europe's migrant/refugee problem, there is a third solution: deploy armed forces to prevent the influx. Europe's armies and navies are basically unemployed; this would give them something to do. Failing to arrest the flood of refugees means, eventually, the ascent of the Far Right in some countries, with profound (and probably bad) consequences for everybody.
1
The three Ms, i.e., Mother Nature, Moore's law, and Market, are all in play. And yes, their effects are being felt and will be felt with greater force in the future.
But Mr. Friedman fails to mention the starting point. Rather blandly he notes that countries with borders that are "mostly straight lines" without any correspondence to "ethnic, tribal or religious realities" are the ones that are disintegrating. As a bland statement of current reality he is right. But as I said earlier, he fails to mention that it was these very colonial powers that, in their hunger and lust to control this region's natural resources, intentionally drew these rather arbitrary boundaries. And the unintended consequence is what we are witnessing today.
So, even as he notes the chaos permeating through this region, at the very least he needs to mention the role of colonists. Otherwise he is incomplete in his analysis.
But Mr. Friedman fails to mention the starting point. Rather blandly he notes that countries with borders that are "mostly straight lines" without any correspondence to "ethnic, tribal or religious realities" are the ones that are disintegrating. As a bland statement of current reality he is right. But as I said earlier, he fails to mention that it was these very colonial powers that, in their hunger and lust to control this region's natural resources, intentionally drew these rather arbitrary boundaries. And the unintended consequence is what we are witnessing today.
So, even as he notes the chaos permeating through this region, at the very least he needs to mention the role of colonists. Otherwise he is incomplete in his analysis.
1
Sectarian differences are not the building blocks of democracy. The ME is a sectarian nightmare. Unless the sectarian countries do not want to live in harmony, little can be done.
Picking sides is a fools errand. Sunni countries have won most of the west's loyalty. But is precisely the virulent Sunni element that has terrorized the West. Shia aggression is largely regionalized, but also violent. Israeli aggression adds another sectarian wall to peaceful coexistence.
Keeping nuclear war material out of the ME is the "vital" interest of the "order" world that the agreement with Iran advances. Any further involvement by any country is perilous, until countries in the ME want peaceful coexistence.
Picking sides is a fools errand. Sunni countries have won most of the west's loyalty. But is precisely the virulent Sunni element that has terrorized the West. Shia aggression is largely regionalized, but also violent. Israeli aggression adds another sectarian wall to peaceful coexistence.
Keeping nuclear war material out of the ME is the "vital" interest of the "order" world that the agreement with Iran advances. Any further involvement by any country is perilous, until countries in the ME want peaceful coexistence.
Mr. Friedman has provided a dispiriting, succinct and valid argument that the refugee problem has no viable solution in the foreseeable future; however, his statement that Mother Nature, Moore's law and the market are the primary causes "blowing up weak" countries leaves out the primary cause of the refugee problem: specifically, the extremely high birth rate (and associated explosive population growth) in many of these weak countries has made it nearly impossible for these states to provide many of the basic needs for their people; and so their citizens try to move to the industrialized countries, which have low birth rates, and where there may be better opportunities. Until population growth is slowed in these weak countries, this heart-rending problem will not be solved.
I disagree with Mr. Friedman's analysis about the root causes for this refugee crisis.
The fact is that the breakdowns in Iraq and Libya were completely knowable, and the history behind that knowledge was only about 20 years old: Yugoslavia, a construct from the end of the earlier World War I that fell apart into internecine strife very shortly after the death of Josip Tito in 1980. So, there's really no excuse for anyone claiming, "How could we know this would happen?" when referring to Iraq and Libya.
Yes, there are countries that have survived being "put together" from disparate groups, but the successful ones survived because it was from an internal decision of the people living in the areas and no force was needed to push them together: the US, Canada, Germany (which, remember, only became Germany in 1871), and Italy (in 1861). Yugoslavia was pushed together from the "outside" from a group of separate identities that really weren't committed to the idea of a Yugoslav state.
And there's a further lesson from the breakup of Yugoslavia: the rest of the countries of the world, and, especially, the European countries, sat on their hands for years as people were slaughtered.
So, the real question to ask here is to what extent did Mother Nature (aside from causing death due to natural lifespans), Moore's Law, and The Market really have to play in the disintegration of Yugoslavia, Iraq and Libya, let alone what will happen once/if the Assads no longer control Syria? Little.
The fact is that the breakdowns in Iraq and Libya were completely knowable, and the history behind that knowledge was only about 20 years old: Yugoslavia, a construct from the end of the earlier World War I that fell apart into internecine strife very shortly after the death of Josip Tito in 1980. So, there's really no excuse for anyone claiming, "How could we know this would happen?" when referring to Iraq and Libya.
Yes, there are countries that have survived being "put together" from disparate groups, but the successful ones survived because it was from an internal decision of the people living in the areas and no force was needed to push them together: the US, Canada, Germany (which, remember, only became Germany in 1871), and Italy (in 1861). Yugoslavia was pushed together from the "outside" from a group of separate identities that really weren't committed to the idea of a Yugoslav state.
And there's a further lesson from the breakup of Yugoslavia: the rest of the countries of the world, and, especially, the European countries, sat on their hands for years as people were slaughtered.
So, the real question to ask here is to what extent did Mother Nature (aside from causing death due to natural lifespans), Moore's Law, and The Market really have to play in the disintegration of Yugoslavia, Iraq and Libya, let alone what will happen once/if the Assads no longer control Syria? Little.
1
I like Canadians. I like Mexicans, too, and despite speaking French, I can communicate with them better in their language than I can with those from Montreal.
Nobody rational disputes Tom's vision of high walls with big gates. The problem is the politics of building the walls, although for Tom to acknowledge the need to turn off the spigot SOMEHOW is going some -- the idea must be developing legs. It may be that the net movement of Mexicans is now zero, but I'd ask who is leaving (likely established, employable people with the means to emigrate, and legal) and who is coming (likely young, poorly educated, needful of services, desperate and illegal).
Trump and, entertainingly, now Walker, may be ginning up fear, but is it irrational fear?
Tom summarizes very well a world spinning into chaos impelled by forces beyond easy control -- nature, technology, globalization -- and, I'd add, a piracy that we've been unwilling to address. Uncontrolled movements of desperate people threatens the stability of cultures, and the lives of those millions, since people aren't going to allow their cultures to be attenuated and destroyed easily.
What has kept us on the edge of order, which keeps the multitudes within their own borders, has been a global cop willing to intercede. As we disengage from the world, that stabilizing influence recedes and the forces of disorder multiply. We still have the hard choices to make, but we can't make them intelligently without buying time.
Nobody rational disputes Tom's vision of high walls with big gates. The problem is the politics of building the walls, although for Tom to acknowledge the need to turn off the spigot SOMEHOW is going some -- the idea must be developing legs. It may be that the net movement of Mexicans is now zero, but I'd ask who is leaving (likely established, employable people with the means to emigrate, and legal) and who is coming (likely young, poorly educated, needful of services, desperate and illegal).
Trump and, entertainingly, now Walker, may be ginning up fear, but is it irrational fear?
Tom summarizes very well a world spinning into chaos impelled by forces beyond easy control -- nature, technology, globalization -- and, I'd add, a piracy that we've been unwilling to address. Uncontrolled movements of desperate people threatens the stability of cultures, and the lives of those millions, since people aren't going to allow their cultures to be attenuated and destroyed easily.
What has kept us on the edge of order, which keeps the multitudes within their own borders, has been a global cop willing to intercede. As we disengage from the world, that stabilizing influence recedes and the forces of disorder multiply. We still have the hard choices to make, but we can't make them intelligently without buying time.
1
Mr. Friedman again cuts through daily pretense and the sloganeering of many to get the true heart of the matter, here most notably in his last two paragraphs: either we wall off the "world of order" from catastrophic inundation by millions of people fleeing the "world of disorder" created by political strife, overpopulation, and climate change. Or else we go on a grand multi-generational crusade--military, political, economic, and cultural--to fundamentally "reform" that disordered world.
I fear that the latter approach would be resisted abroad as a new form of Western imperialism; it did not work well in Afghanistan or Iraq; and that, in any case, it is beyond the economic/military means and political will of even the United States and the wealthy nations of Europe. Thus, the logical alternative is to insulate ourselves as best (though very imperfectly) as we can from that increasingly disordered world. And, as Mr. Friedman noted, the current crisis is "just the beginning," given the future impact of global climate change on hundreds of millions, including many in the developed world--which thus will face a major challenge just in alleviating the stress on its own populations.
I fear that the latter approach would be resisted abroad as a new form of Western imperialism; it did not work well in Afghanistan or Iraq; and that, in any case, it is beyond the economic/military means and political will of even the United States and the wealthy nations of Europe. Thus, the logical alternative is to insulate ourselves as best (though very imperfectly) as we can from that increasingly disordered world. And, as Mr. Friedman noted, the current crisis is "just the beginning," given the future impact of global climate change on hundreds of millions, including many in the developed world--which thus will face a major challenge just in alleviating the stress on its own populations.
24
Why aren't any of the refugees making their way to the super wealth gulf states where they would also be culturally compatible?
Why is there no expectation for Saudi Arabia, UAE, Qatar, Kuwait, Bahrain, etc. to give asylum?
Why is there no expectation for Saudi Arabia, UAE, Qatar, Kuwait, Bahrain, etc. to give asylum?
3
"build a wall and isolate these regions of disorder, or occupy them with boots on the ground, crush the bad guys and build a new order based on real citizenship"
Isn't that what Mr. Friedman counseled us to do in Iraq once before? Look how well it's worked out, for that matter, helped to create Isis.
We won the first time round there because GHW Bush used minimal force
to accomplish a major task. Too bad his son - and of all people Thomas
Friedman - didn't pay heed to his wide admonition to keep out of Iraq and leave
a defanged Saddam to his own devices.
Isn't that what Mr. Friedman counseled us to do in Iraq once before? Look how well it's worked out, for that matter, helped to create Isis.
We won the first time round there because GHW Bush used minimal force
to accomplish a major task. Too bad his son - and of all people Thomas
Friedman - didn't pay heed to his wide admonition to keep out of Iraq and leave
a defanged Saddam to his own devices.
3
One thing lacking in this analysis -- Israel. Why are they never in the conversation? They have taken borders to a new level.
3
Perhaps because Syria has been in a declared state of war against Israel since 1948? Israel has nothing to do with the Syrian civil war and has no international obligation to take in what used to be called "enemy aliens" beyond interning them - and then imagine the outcry.
Attempting to shoehorn Israel into "the conversation" is a tried and true method of avoiding addressing the real problem which, in this case, is the apparent inability of most Arab governments to govern for their people's benefit.
Attempting to shoehorn Israel into "the conversation" is a tried and true method of avoiding addressing the real problem which, in this case, is the apparent inability of most Arab governments to govern for their people's benefit.
The world is being redivided into regions of “order” and “disorder,” just like our big cities, and for the first time in a long time, we don’t have an answer for all the people flocking to get out of the world of disorder and into the world of order so they can live on the wealth of the ordered countries and drive them into disorder. Build the dome!
"...crush the bad guys and build a new order based on real citizenship, a vast project that would take two generations."
It did not work very well with Iraq, did it, even though we gave up in half a generation?
It did not work very well with Iraq, did it, even though we gave up in half a generation?
3
Maybe the solution, as painful as it would be, would be to have a total regional war, where the end result would be to redraw the country borders to suit the tribes that existed before colonialism and war remade them in someone else's image.
2
A world of order and a world of disorder- a great concept. I think a world map of the countries of order, disorder and those transitioning would help communicate this concept even more forcefully.
2
It’s interesting how some people love sex but refuse to raise a child or pay the alimony.
The gigantic flood of the immigrants and the refugees is the European invention. That’s exactly how America was settled 3-4 centuries ago. That’s exactly how Texas changed the texture of local population a few hundred years ago. That’s exactly how Europe established the vast colonial empires all over the globe.
Should we remind anybody that the European great powers, mainly Britain and France came up with the Balfour Declaration? The key point was to resettle several hundred thousand Europeans from the Old Continent to the Middle East.
Of course, the local Muslims didn’t like the idea in 1917. They were portrayed as intolerant, biased, zealot and hateful.
The Arabs finally learned their lesson. Instead of fighting Europe they decide to join her.
The Europeans expected the Palestinians and the Arabs to move to the other Middle-eastern countries. Surprisingly, the locals decided to prove to the world that they are very tolerant people capable of living mixed together with the other ethnic groups and religions without any need to be the majority or have their society governed by the Sharia Law as stubbornly claimed by the European press.
Suddenly, the Old Continent looks extremely intolerant, biased and hateful with the barbed wire fence hastily erected.
I guess they don’t like their own recipes cooked in their backyards…
The gigantic flood of the immigrants and the refugees is the European invention. That’s exactly how America was settled 3-4 centuries ago. That’s exactly how Texas changed the texture of local population a few hundred years ago. That’s exactly how Europe established the vast colonial empires all over the globe.
Should we remind anybody that the European great powers, mainly Britain and France came up with the Balfour Declaration? The key point was to resettle several hundred thousand Europeans from the Old Continent to the Middle East.
Of course, the local Muslims didn’t like the idea in 1917. They were portrayed as intolerant, biased, zealot and hateful.
The Arabs finally learned their lesson. Instead of fighting Europe they decide to join her.
The Europeans expected the Palestinians and the Arabs to move to the other Middle-eastern countries. Surprisingly, the locals decided to prove to the world that they are very tolerant people capable of living mixed together with the other ethnic groups and religions without any need to be the majority or have their society governed by the Sharia Law as stubbornly claimed by the European press.
Suddenly, the Old Continent looks extremely intolerant, biased and hateful with the barbed wire fence hastily erected.
I guess they don’t like their own recipes cooked in their backyards…
3
When you said "dome," Mr. Friedman, I thought you were going to mention Hurricane Katrina and the central role that Houston's Astrodome played in the evacuation of New Orleans. I thought you were going to punch through the unrealistic nonsense of building walls around Western countries, or going to war to try to make peace in war torn areas.
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Hurricane Katrina was a case study in mass migration, 200,000 people went from New Orleans to Houston in less than a week. It offers lessons for Germany, Europe, and the world. There were mistakes made: poorly administered housing, a lack of sufficient law enforcement, services that didn't follow evacuees to far flung housing. But ten years later, Houston can honestly say that we are stronger for it. And so will Germany, and other countries that accept refugees.
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This is not to say that borders should disappear. Obviously a nation's sovereignty depends on its borders. And border control is hugely important. But in times of international need, the gates have to be opened. And Katrina taught us, that everything hinges not on how many refugees arrive, but how they are handled.
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Hurricane Katrina was a case study in mass migration, 200,000 people went from New Orleans to Houston in less than a week. It offers lessons for Germany, Europe, and the world. There were mistakes made: poorly administered housing, a lack of sufficient law enforcement, services that didn't follow evacuees to far flung housing. But ten years later, Houston can honestly say that we are stronger for it. And so will Germany, and other countries that accept refugees.
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This is not to say that borders should disappear. Obviously a nation's sovereignty depends on its borders. And border control is hugely important. But in times of international need, the gates have to be opened. And Katrina taught us, that everything hinges not on how many refugees arrive, but how they are handled.
4
In the first place, no, 200, 000 people did not suddenly move to Houston. in the second, how would you feel about two million? Four million? ten?
friedman's point is that even wealthy countries will hit a breaking point, if we keep going on as we are. Charity will not be enough.
friedman's point is that even wealthy countries will hit a breaking point, if we keep going on as we are. Charity will not be enough.
1
America adopted a pause in immigration before, from around 1920 to when a new immigration law was passed in 1968 which opened it back up again. America reached about 15% foreign born in the period between 1910 to 1920. The urban tenements teeming with Jews, Italians, Irish, Greeks, Poles, etc were causing a political backlash. America wound up with a near 50 year pause in immigration which allowed for assimilation of these foreign born and their offspring. In 1970 the percentage of foreign born residents dropped to 4.7%. This political solution would be denounced today as heartless by progressives and economic suicide by Wall Street Journal conservatives. In my opinion it worked very,very well and it should be tried once again. We are approaching 15% foreign born once again, and much more in many urban areas. It is time to get borders under control.
42
I didn't look it up, but I'm pretty sure the immigration law was changed in 1965, not 1968. (I'm a Virgo and part German-Swiss, so I couldn't resist pointing it out.)
1
Art josephs I think you are likely right. We should allow immigration, but must also do it in a way that requires immigrants to assimilate into those aspects of our culture that need to be standard in order for our Constitution and rule of law to function. While each culture has unique aspects that they should cherish and retain, ahd have much to teach us, there are other aspects of many cultures that cannot be allowed either here, or in Europe. For example, no one needs more Mafia traditions such as what still plagues southern Italy. We cannot allow the repression of women that is rampant in much of Islam, or practices like female circumcision that are common in northern Africa. The culture of corruption common in Russia or sub-Saharan Africa have been ruinous to those societies. And we absolutely must retain separation of church and state. Such progressive developments as LGBT rights would be quickly rolled back with a sufficient influx of immigrants retaining all "traditional" values. While we need to respect and tolerate different cultures, those who come from cultures that are failing do not have the right to immigrate to another country and proceed to try to remake it in the image of their former, failing, home.
We have enough problems trying to remake our own cultural values to address the chronic injustice exposed by the Black Lives Matter movement , and the growing distance between rich and poor that tears at our social fabric.
We have enough problems trying to remake our own cultural values to address the chronic injustice exposed by the Black Lives Matter movement , and the growing distance between rich and poor that tears at our social fabric.
4
"In my opinion it worked very,very well and it should be tried once again."
Sure. The interwar period where the global economy collapsed like never before, followed by the rise of authoritarianism in Europe, followed by the deadliest war in modern times, followed by the proliferation of nuclear weapons. Sounds like it worked well.
Mind you, I'm not saying that US immigration policy was directly responsible for all those things. But letting the Gilded Age happen, and a refusal to accommodate people trying to escape political persecution and economic hardship certainly didn't help.
Sure. The interwar period where the global economy collapsed like never before, followed by the rise of authoritarianism in Europe, followed by the deadliest war in modern times, followed by the proliferation of nuclear weapons. Sounds like it worked well.
Mind you, I'm not saying that US immigration policy was directly responsible for all those things. But letting the Gilded Age happen, and a refusal to accommodate people trying to escape political persecution and economic hardship certainly didn't help.
This is an accurate assessment of the challenges ahead of us. Building walls or letting refugees from Africa or the Middle East to settle in Europe or elsewhere are not viable long term solutions. The artificial states created after WWI and the collapse of the Ottoman Empire such as Syria and Iraq are in shambles and it will be very hard to to put them back together. Envisioning a new world order which guarantees basic rights such as freedom of expression, security, education, healthcare, etc. in the regions of "disorder" will be longer but probably less onerous. We will need to enlist all the world and regional powers friends or foes to come up with a grand bargain and implement it. This is not impossible, it has been done before in a smaller scale in Bosnia, Kosovo, etc.
1
"Building walls...(is) not a viable solution". So say you. I say let's give it a try.
Unrestrained population growth and climate change are the plagues of the 21st century and yet, Republicans generally deny both.
How tragic that Mr. Friedman and the Republican Party still believe that American military intervention will somehow end this perfect storm when such action effectively blew up the Middle East, only a little more than 10 years ago.
American "boots on the ground" as a solution to this new reality belongs in the clown car now driving our political debate.
How tragic that Mr. Friedman and the Republican Party still believe that American military intervention will somehow end this perfect storm when such action effectively blew up the Middle East, only a little more than 10 years ago.
American "boots on the ground" as a solution to this new reality belongs in the clown car now driving our political debate.
6
Belgium is one of the most densely populated nations of earth... hardly a hell-hole. According to the IPCC there is no evidence of devastating Climate Change over the past 50-100 years... the catastrophe is predicted for the 22nd century... with little evidence to support those claims except for repudiated climate models.
They're about to have another government shutdown if Planned Parenthood isn't federally defunded.
I'm conservative, but I do not understand the obsession and paranoia of Republican candidates with immigration, especially since most of the immigrants coming here tend to be more socially conservative. Through my work I've met hundreds of immigrants in France and the US, and the overwhelming majority come, not to impose their worldview, but to benefit from freedom of conscience and economic opportunity.
3
We didn't need to build walls to keep people out during the cold war because the Soviets built walls to keep them in. It was easy to absorb the the limited number of refugees from Communist countries.
Thus, both the US and the EU have to break new ground to deal with the current crisis. I agree that high walls and strong military action are not effective options; on the contrary, past military actions not only failed in their objectives, but left weapons with those we now oppose.
A major factor that Friedman does not mention is soaring population growth in the Middle East and Africa, which strains resources for basic needs like food, water, and housing. This would have a destabilizing effect in any political system. Before the 20th century war and disease routinely limited population growth. Humanitarian medical aid to impoverished countries has left us with only war to cut down overpopulated regions.
I don't suggest that we stop trying to eradicate disease in Africa or force China's draconian one child policy on other people. However, any long-range solution must include effective methods of controlling population growth. The only short range action to mitigate the effect of this crisis may be to press wealthy Middle Eastern countries to accept more refugees, develop programs to enable less wealthy African central Asian countries to accommodate more people, and seek non-military mechanisms to stabilize those regions.
Thus, both the US and the EU have to break new ground to deal with the current crisis. I agree that high walls and strong military action are not effective options; on the contrary, past military actions not only failed in their objectives, but left weapons with those we now oppose.
A major factor that Friedman does not mention is soaring population growth in the Middle East and Africa, which strains resources for basic needs like food, water, and housing. This would have a destabilizing effect in any political system. Before the 20th century war and disease routinely limited population growth. Humanitarian medical aid to impoverished countries has left us with only war to cut down overpopulated regions.
I don't suggest that we stop trying to eradicate disease in Africa or force China's draconian one child policy on other people. However, any long-range solution must include effective methods of controlling population growth. The only short range action to mitigate the effect of this crisis may be to press wealthy Middle Eastern countries to accept more refugees, develop programs to enable less wealthy African central Asian countries to accommodate more people, and seek non-military mechanisms to stabilize those regions.
3
The European problem from a numerical perspective is that there are 400 million people in the Middle East and 1.1 million people in Africa. Both are growing fast. Europe will be able to absorb a lot of people, but only a small amount as a percentage of the 1.5 billion. The U.S. is in a little different spot. There are 200 million people in Mexico and Central America and 400 million in South America. As a generalization, these two areas are more stable and prosperous. The cultural issues between Europe's immigrants and its current residents are also potentially greater. Ultimately, my guess is that Europe will need to wall itself in. This is no particular knock on anyone. It is simply the way the numbers shake out.
4
Only a small fraction of the people in the middle east and Africa are trying to immigrate to Europe. Europe is not the promised land. Most refugees know that fact. At the present it is a place without the ravages of war. Most of the current immigrants would gladly return to their homes if peace and relative safety was restored.
One of Tolkien's wise old characters advised that a people can wall themselves in but cannot wall out the world for long. That is true for us in the US, and for Europe, but it is also true for everyone in the middle east. Their ruers have tried to create static societies and resist change. Now they are changing the hard way, with civil war. We can't have that conflict on their behalf, and we can't ignore its effects on us. We will have refugees and they will change us. There will be new Syrian Steve Jobs and there will be some who commit violent acts. It is a fantasy to believe that we will remain ethnically and culturally the same as we are now. Neither will any of the places n the Middle East.
4
The assertion that “the net migration flow from Mexico to the U.S. is now zero” is based on calculations that are five years out of date. The Pew Research Center calculated that “During the five-year period from 2005 to 2010, a total of 1.4 million Mexicans immigrated to the United States, down by more than half from the 3 million who had done so in the five-year period of 1995 to 2000. Meantime, the number of Mexicans and their children who moved from the U.S. to Mexico between 2005 and 2010 rose to 1.4 million, roughly double the number who had done so in the five-year period a decade before. While it is not possible to say so with certainty, the trend lines within this latest five-year period suggest that return flow to Mexico probably exceeded the inflow from Mexico during the past year or two.” However, that was at the height of the U.S. recession and even then it was just a guess. Now that the U.S. economy has improved, Mexican migrants are no longer returning to Mexico, but the flow of illegal immigrants from Mexico continues. Besides, the calculations factor in only Mexicans coming from or returning to Mexico; they did not factor in the tsunami of “refugees” from Central American and increased illegal immigration from Asia.
1
It would seem that the answer to actual numbers is to just make up other numbers.
Missing in these considerations is the risk of ISIL terrorists posing as escapees from war. These will mostly be among the young men immigrating without families. Perhaps these are the ones causing disruption in Hungary's attempt to establish an identification process, the ones inciting refusal to accept water and nourishment at Keleti train station in Budapest, and the ones leading resistance to getting fingerprinted. In its laudable empathy for those leaving war-torn areas in the Middle East and Africa, Europe is likely importing a fifth column - some who will engage in anti-Semitic acts or who wish to resurrect a Caliphate and are willing to commit heinous crimes in the service of their misguided beliefs. All it will take will be one significant terrorist bombing to unleash the already burbling right wing reaction. While the vast majority of the immigrants certainly deserve our sympathy and all efforts to improve their lot, any who refuse to cooperate with a screening process, as Hungary tried unsuccessfully to implement, ought to be barred from entry out of hand. For those justly earning asylum, the consequent strain on European economies does not come near matching the strain experienced by those escaping war with their families and the tribulations they suffered to arrive in Europe. Brotherhood deserves precedence. Still, as Clare Boothe Luce wittily remarked, "No good deed goes unpunished." En garde.
4
Very true, except that I would not categorize overpopulation as exclusively the province of "Mother Nature." These are cultures where women usually have chattel status, and where men take many wives over a lifetime. The birthrate problems in these places do not go away, becuase the cultures themselves are highly resistant to change. Much of Latin America and East Asia have steeply changed birthrates within the past few decades, which clearly improves the quality of life and economic opportunities in those regions. As long as women are basically disposable property in Africa and the Middle East, prosperity, growth, stability, and peace will all be pipe dreams. There are many issues at play, but we should not ignore the basic refusal of these cultures (and, even hostility at the idea) to change to a more 21st-century way of thinking.
20
There is a third option. A grand bargain that redraws national boundaries along ethnic lines. In a sense that is what happened in Europe after World War II and in Yugoslavia after communism fell. It could be done in Middle East by redrawing the national boundaries of Syria and Iraq and creating a Kurdistan. It would also require some population shifts. It would be very difficult and would require support of the ethnic groups involved and the cooperation of Turkey, Russia, Iran (now much more possible because of the nuclear agreement) and Saudi Arabia among others. It is really already happening in an uncontrolled way with enormous violence. We should recognize the inevitability of it and control it through negotiation. It would not fix everything but it would improve the situation.
10
Great idea, except it's totally impractical. Turkey and Iran would never agree to an independent Kurdistan. And even if you carved up Syria along ethnic/religious lines, each group would seek to seize the territory of the others, and dominate (if not exterminate) the people living there.
Friedman states that as opposed to Trump, he favors a wall with big gates to allow those who have something to contribute in. As a journalist he should at least have payed enough attention to Trump to know what he actually said, instead of saying that Trump is making Americans "dumb and afraid, purely for political gain.
Because the fact is that Trump used those exact words "big gates" to describe what kind of wall he intends to build. He went on to say that there are allot of "great" people in Mexico who he would welcome to the US.
Chances are that if he were discussing the stated policy proposal of a candidate that was a professional policy maker he no doubt would have taken the time to get to know their position. However, as with all others who have devoted their careers to covering professional politicians, he cannot bring himself to take Trump seriously at all.
Because this would show that a professional is nothing more than somebody who is mediocre at what they do, its just that they do it for a living. And that he has devoted his life to taking a bunch of very average people very seriously.
Because the fact is that Trump used those exact words "big gates" to describe what kind of wall he intends to build. He went on to say that there are allot of "great" people in Mexico who he would welcome to the US.
Chances are that if he were discussing the stated policy proposal of a candidate that was a professional policy maker he no doubt would have taken the time to get to know their position. However, as with all others who have devoted their careers to covering professional politicians, he cannot bring himself to take Trump seriously at all.
Because this would show that a professional is nothing more than somebody who is mediocre at what they do, its just that they do it for a living. And that he has devoted his life to taking a bunch of very average people very seriously.
4
Thy won't take Trump seriously until he's living in the White House - if then.
One of the strongest arguments for the Iraq deal, though rarely articulated, is that as the one of only three true nation states in the region -- Israel and Saudi Arabia are the others -- it is critical that it be engaged with the rest of the world. Yes, Iran is a major contributor to the anarchic chaos, but it also is likely to be one of the few instruments available if we hope to have a rational, though surely still dangerous and imperfect, structuring of the Middle East. The Saudis, by the way, are like Iran, spreading their own terror.
4
Saudi Arabia is as artificial as any country, having been a very minor province in the Ottoman Empire, with a quilt of tribes dividing the peninsula. The Wahabis, led by the man who eventually came to be called Ibn Saud controlling only the desert around Riyadh, and only after 1902. It wasn't until 1932 that his conquests (supported by Britain) made a country remotely recognizable. If Saudi Arabia is a nation state, it is the nation of the Wahabi.
Israel a true nation state? If you mean heterogeneous, I'd hate to see forcible expulsions and illegal annexations be the definition of how a nation becomes "true". The majority of Israel's territory (not including the West Bank) was, by far, majority Arab before 1948. If Jews are a nation, surely the Arabs who lived there are too.
Iran, by contrast, has been a nation since antiquity, in roughly the same place as it is now, though at times it has been much larger. The Persians have their own language (Israelis have Hebrew, but it is the native language of less than half of the population. Saudis have Arabic, but they share this with hundreds of millions in other countries), distinctive cuisine, etc.
You can look at the facts from many perspectives and debate what a nation is endlessly, but there is no sane way to call Saudi Arabia and Israel any more true than the rest.
Israel a true nation state? If you mean heterogeneous, I'd hate to see forcible expulsions and illegal annexations be the definition of how a nation becomes "true". The majority of Israel's territory (not including the West Bank) was, by far, majority Arab before 1948. If Jews are a nation, surely the Arabs who lived there are too.
Iran, by contrast, has been a nation since antiquity, in roughly the same place as it is now, though at times it has been much larger. The Persians have their own language (Israelis have Hebrew, but it is the native language of less than half of the population. Saudis have Arabic, but they share this with hundreds of millions in other countries), distinctive cuisine, etc.
You can look at the facts from many perspectives and debate what a nation is endlessly, but there is no sane way to call Saudi Arabia and Israel any more true than the rest.
Is it naive to think that maybe, if we could make pockets of safety, Western teachers, nurses, doctors, small business people, and other helpers and role models could make a difference in showing the people in those countries how to live the lives they now seek in Europe?
I remember that after the iron curtain came down, many lawyers went to the former Soviet states to help draft constitutions and laws that would promote private property and commercial opportunity. It was a quiet and below-the-radar project that the returning lawyers felt had been very successful.
Rather than training local militias only, how about training local citizens and builders? We're told that many people who support ISIS do so because they provide a functioning government and public services. If those services could come organically from the people themselves, ISIS would lose it's status as the least worst option.
If there was a plan to create safe pockets, I suspect they would become magnets for the locals who don't really want to become westerners. They just want to live a normal life.
I remember that after the iron curtain came down, many lawyers went to the former Soviet states to help draft constitutions and laws that would promote private property and commercial opportunity. It was a quiet and below-the-radar project that the returning lawyers felt had been very successful.
Rather than training local militias only, how about training local citizens and builders? We're told that many people who support ISIS do so because they provide a functioning government and public services. If those services could come organically from the people themselves, ISIS would lose it's status as the least worst option.
If there was a plan to create safe pockets, I suspect they would become magnets for the locals who don't really want to become westerners. They just want to live a normal life.
70
Yes, once again
Take up the white man's burden...
Take up the white man's burden...
Let’s step aside from the nonsense spouted by Donald Trump, Scott Walker and other Republican campaigners. Let’s think seriously about immigration and borders, as people flee from societies which don’t work to those which – for the moment – seem to function. Hopefully, the views of Thomas Friedman about his favoring a big Mexican wall are metaphorical.
There is hope raised by some world leaders. Angela Merkel’s adherence to ethical principles of right and wrong caused Europe suffering in recent years from her mistaken belief that austerity was the correct approach to recession and from her hardline handling of the Greek financial crisis.
She learned some moderation from those mistakes, but the one area in which her ethical views need no relaxing is her recognition that she and Germany have a moral duty to the migrants fleeing to Western Europe from broken countries. If we rightly criticized Merkel previously, we now owe her praise for doing the right thing.
The European failure to deal responsibly with the migrants is based partly on prejudice against Muslims and people of color. Perhaps not surprisingly, the impulse for exclusion also seems to be a decision that a greater homogeneity of the population in each country is much simpler for elected officials to administer. Even were it not too late to return to single-flavor societies, laziness is a poor excuse for turning a blind eye towards people in great need.
America can and should help more.
There is hope raised by some world leaders. Angela Merkel’s adherence to ethical principles of right and wrong caused Europe suffering in recent years from her mistaken belief that austerity was the correct approach to recession and from her hardline handling of the Greek financial crisis.
She learned some moderation from those mistakes, but the one area in which her ethical views need no relaxing is her recognition that she and Germany have a moral duty to the migrants fleeing to Western Europe from broken countries. If we rightly criticized Merkel previously, we now owe her praise for doing the right thing.
The European failure to deal responsibly with the migrants is based partly on prejudice against Muslims and people of color. Perhaps not surprisingly, the impulse for exclusion also seems to be a decision that a greater homogeneity of the population in each country is much simpler for elected officials to administer. Even were it not too late to return to single-flavor societies, laziness is a poor excuse for turning a blind eye towards people in great need.
America can and should help more.
69
The U.N. currently estimates there are around 50 million displaced persons in Africa and the Middle East. Ms. Merkel recently almost torpedoed the euro currency by being too rigid, now dooms the entire EU by being too flexible. Britain and France hesitate to open the immigrant floodgates because of their experiences with Muslim influxes from their imperialist days. The Balkan states build their fences from past experiences under the Ottoman Empire. This is not a time for illusionary thinking, but pragmatism - choosing between order and disorder. This could well be the end of European order and Ms. Merkel will be out of a job as European politics turns a hard right.
2
Why does Germany have a moral duty to the migrants fleeing to Western Europe from broken countries? Based on its crimes connected with WW II? Germany has admitted its guilt, made reparations and been a very good world citizen in the last seventy years.
The present big problems in the Middle East started as a result of the US' invasion of Iraq - shouldn't the US bear a large percentage of the cost of taking care of these hundreds of thousands of refugees? Of course, the biggest cost of the wars are borne by the refugees themselves who have lost their countries, family members, and their livelihood.
The present big problems in the Middle East started as a result of the US' invasion of Iraq - shouldn't the US bear a large percentage of the cost of taking care of these hundreds of thousands of refugees? Of course, the biggest cost of the wars are borne by the refugees themselves who have lost their countries, family members, and their livelihood.
1
Hungary was overrun with Muslims in the past (see St. Stephen) as was France (see Tours). Can you really blame them for being "gun-shy"?
I agree, the two alternatives are walls or boots on the ground. Yes there is a bill to pay, and no I do not like this situation.
Suppose the worst case though, and disorder overwhelms and destabilizes Europe. It is hard for me to believe we will be protected by our oceans if this happens. Isolationism promises a fool's paradise.
So, back to the awful news. We have no choice. We have to be the world's policeman.
Two comments about Iraq. Colin Powell's "Pottery Barn" rule applies there. We broke it, so we own it. My second comment is, next time we see somebody like Saddam Hussein we leave him alone.
Suppose the worst case though, and disorder overwhelms and destabilizes Europe. It is hard for me to believe we will be protected by our oceans if this happens. Isolationism promises a fool's paradise.
So, back to the awful news. We have no choice. We have to be the world's policeman.
Two comments about Iraq. Colin Powell's "Pottery Barn" rule applies there. We broke it, so we own it. My second comment is, next time we see somebody like Saddam Hussein we leave him alone.
82
And who is Bashar Assad, if not another version of Saddam Hussein? We are not leaving him be. In fact, our meddling in Syria is what is causing this crisis. Aided and abetted by our "friend" the Saudis.
Assad is the next guy after Saddam Hussein, and he is also secular, and a bulwark against al Qaeda and ISIS, just as was Saddam. We are determined to take him down because Israel and Saudi Arabia demand regime change in Syria. Chaos is good, and greed is even better. The worse it gets the more the elites benefit. How is it never mentioned that oil, gas and pipeline development are why we are in the Middle East destroying States in the name of democracy? How is it possible that anyone thinks that we are trying to stabilize anything, when we have done exactly the opposite of stabilizing for more than a decade? I don't get it?
Well, there are lots of candidates. Assad, for one. We've pretty much left him alone but the outcome is lousy also. It's a world of choices, all bad.
1
Jurassic Park's Dr. Ellie Sattler: You never had control, that's the illusion!
All our "stabilizing" efforts from imperialism to covertly overthrowing governments to boots on the ground have done nothing but destabilize the Mid East, Africa, Southeast Asia and Central and South America. We are failures because we do not live up to our own principals. You cannot force democracy down the throats of others. You cannot force people to believe what you believe. We treat countries like right wing Christians trying to force or scare people into worshiping God. We try to force or scare people into believing in democracy which is not even working in our own country. Once upon a time countries did look to the US because of the increasing standard of living for all Americans even the poor. Today with a shrinking middle class, failing schools, crumbling infrastructure, increased poverty we have no "moral" high ground. In fact they see us as hypocrites criticizing them for their fraud (Nigeria) or their governments run by the rich cheating their people of foreign financial assistance when our banks were rewarded for fraud that brought down the world's markets, and then were rewarded with middle class taxpayer money.
We have to get our house in order. We have to decide whether capitalism is there to serve all people not just a few. Then we can try to stabilize the world with an egalitarian expansion of industry but we will still never have control. It is an illusion.
All our "stabilizing" efforts from imperialism to covertly overthrowing governments to boots on the ground have done nothing but destabilize the Mid East, Africa, Southeast Asia and Central and South America. We are failures because we do not live up to our own principals. You cannot force democracy down the throats of others. You cannot force people to believe what you believe. We treat countries like right wing Christians trying to force or scare people into worshiping God. We try to force or scare people into believing in democracy which is not even working in our own country. Once upon a time countries did look to the US because of the increasing standard of living for all Americans even the poor. Today with a shrinking middle class, failing schools, crumbling infrastructure, increased poverty we have no "moral" high ground. In fact they see us as hypocrites criticizing them for their fraud (Nigeria) or their governments run by the rich cheating their people of foreign financial assistance when our banks were rewarded for fraud that brought down the world's markets, and then were rewarded with middle class taxpayer money.
We have to get our house in order. We have to decide whether capitalism is there to serve all people not just a few. Then we can try to stabilize the world with an egalitarian expansion of industry but we will still never have control. It is an illusion.
185
As Plato said, "Democracy is a charming form of government, full of variety and disorder. It dispenses a sort of equality to equals and non-equals alike."
We don't care to make it better! George HW Bush knew exactly what removing Saddam Hussein would do to the Middle East, so he stood down after the first Gulf War.
The neocons aren't fools and neither are the oilmen. They intended to create chaos in order to exploit the opportunities created by chaos. The oil fields of Saudi Arabia are in the Shia Crescent which panicked the Sunni Royals, and Big Oil didn't want to absorb being shut out as independents by a renewed Iran's thrust toward further nationalized markets. If the independents lost retained reserves their stocks would be punished.
Unfortunately we lost Shia Iraq, and they aligned with Iran. ISIS thus became the lever to redraw the map of the ME on the terms of Big Oil and the Sunni Royals. Naturally, we don't care in the least about the collateral damage. In fact the elites welcome it, because it justifies more war to the American People.
The neocons aren't fools and neither are the oilmen. They intended to create chaos in order to exploit the opportunities created by chaos. The oil fields of Saudi Arabia are in the Shia Crescent which panicked the Sunni Royals, and Big Oil didn't want to absorb being shut out as independents by a renewed Iran's thrust toward further nationalized markets. If the independents lost retained reserves their stocks would be punished.
Unfortunately we lost Shia Iraq, and they aligned with Iran. ISIS thus became the lever to redraw the map of the ME on the terms of Big Oil and the Sunni Royals. Naturally, we don't care in the least about the collateral damage. In fact the elites welcome it, because it justifies more war to the American People.
The refugees from Syria are not fleeing climate change, the global market, or Moore's law. They are fleeing fascists.
2
Lack of resources, water, climates amenable to agriculture, causes political instability. Hungry people are angry people. Friedman's comment is to identify factors leading to changes, some of which are de-stabilizing.,
If the projections on climate change are correct, the middle East will dry up. The number fleeing will be in the millions not thousands.
It seems to me that Mr Friedman ignores any chance of self-organization within the countries affected that will correct the disorder. He seemed to think that it is up to "us"', by which I assume that he means the Western democracies, to fix the problem. We, in the West, assume that we have the ideal model for the world; but that kind of hubris caused many of the problems that we see today. If we didn't "fix" Iraq (which Mr Friedman supported) then many of the dislocations we are seeing in the region might not be happening today.
Maybe it is time to realize that we are powerless to find the solution to the world's problems because our vision is based on money and excessive military power - two things that will only drive us all deeper into chaos.
Maybe it is time to realize that we are powerless to find the solution to the world's problems because our vision is based on money and excessive military power - two things that will only drive us all deeper into chaos.
8
While the current refugee crisis is desperate for millions, the world can absorb those desperate enough to flee disorder, certainly more than at the start of WWII when borders were closed off and Jews couldn't escape Nazi tyranny or Chinese couldn't flee Japanese aggression.
It is at least hopeful to see far off countries like Australia and Chile offering to take refugees and finally, the EU is starting to think how a 'Union' should react to a crisis of this size.
It is at least hopeful to see far off countries like Australia and Chile offering to take refugees and finally, the EU is starting to think how a 'Union' should react to a crisis of this size.
2
Australia, which is sparsely populated, has agreed to take only 12k, less than the illegal immigrant total Obama shipped to CA during the 2014 surge when other, pro-amnesty states said no to taking a mere 100 people.
Australia has also put strict limits on who it will accept, as has Britain. First, priority will be given to persecuted minorities (Kurds, Yazidis, Christians, Shia Muslims), and second, the refugees will be picked from those in refugee camps. The latter condition will allow the countries to attempt to vet the backgrounds of those who wish to live peacefully in the West.
Australia has also put strict limits on who it will accept, as has Britain. First, priority will be given to persecuted minorities (Kurds, Yazidis, Christians, Shia Muslims), and second, the refugees will be picked from those in refugee camps. The latter condition will allow the countries to attempt to vet the backgrounds of those who wish to live peacefully in the West.
Dealing with the results rather than the roots and causes of the problem that caused the undesired result is not going to dramatically change the result.
The basic result leaves us to deal with millions of people, characterized a very much divided over sectarian and tribal, belonging, not tolerant to other culture and reluctant to assimilate and integrate in a western society with norms considered for the immigrants as unacceptable (women equality, dress, etc.) Adding to all above an unchecked population growth (women and children per family) preferring an extremist ultra-religious and militant social approach and we head towards a complete change of western cultural, social, democratic fabric.
The alternative to slow but certain social and economic self destruction combined with further chaos is a combination of walls and imposing order in the disorder. (the example that comes to my mind is Germany and Japan after WWII - with all means required to achieve these results). Inside the walls, we should educate a selective, capable and qualified people from the problem sources to be able taking over their own countries to consolidate the building we need to put in place of safety and economic opportunities for their nations.
The basic result leaves us to deal with millions of people, characterized a very much divided over sectarian and tribal, belonging, not tolerant to other culture and reluctant to assimilate and integrate in a western society with norms considered for the immigrants as unacceptable (women equality, dress, etc.) Adding to all above an unchecked population growth (women and children per family) preferring an extremist ultra-religious and militant social approach and we head towards a complete change of western cultural, social, democratic fabric.
The alternative to slow but certain social and economic self destruction combined with further chaos is a combination of walls and imposing order in the disorder. (the example that comes to my mind is Germany and Japan after WWII - with all means required to achieve these results). Inside the walls, we should educate a selective, capable and qualified people from the problem sources to be able taking over their own countries to consolidate the building we need to put in place of safety and economic opportunities for their nations.
What about Israel finally accepting the refugees from Syria?
Have Moses and Jesus banned such act of mercifulness anywhere in the Holy Books?
Should not the only democracy in the Middle East lead by personal example?
Not accepting the refuges puts the state of Israel really low on the humanitarian rank list, next to the Saudi Arabia. Anybody at the same level with the Saudis should be extremely worried about their worldviews...
Have the Jews forgotten how desperate the refuges running for their lives could be? The WWII ended mere seven decades ago.
If we must never forget the Holocaust we also should never fail to recognize the other humans in danger of total extermination and offer them shelter and protection.
What are the politics good for if they destroy our love for the other people?
Are we really let the people die in order to assure some irrelevant majority?
Just check the Ten Commandments, there is no single word regarding any majority. There are several instructions how to protect and care for our neighbors...
Have Moses and Jesus banned such act of mercifulness anywhere in the Holy Books?
Should not the only democracy in the Middle East lead by personal example?
Not accepting the refuges puts the state of Israel really low on the humanitarian rank list, next to the Saudi Arabia. Anybody at the same level with the Saudis should be extremely worried about their worldviews...
Have the Jews forgotten how desperate the refuges running for their lives could be? The WWII ended mere seven decades ago.
If we must never forget the Holocaust we also should never fail to recognize the other humans in danger of total extermination and offer them shelter and protection.
What are the politics good for if they destroy our love for the other people?
Are we really let the people die in order to assure some irrelevant majority?
Just check the Ten Commandments, there is no single word regarding any majority. There are several instructions how to protect and care for our neighbors...
22
Even when that neighbor is at war with you, as Syria has been with Israel since 1948? Under what standard are you operating? Are you suggesting they be assimilated into Israel and take on Israeli citizenship (including all of its rights and obligations) or would their stay be temporary?
As it is, the Israelis have already been offering medical help to the wounded and have been sending food and other supplies via Jordan, albeit with every trace of Hebrew removed. A better question would be where is this great Arab Umma we keep hearing about? The Syrian refugees would, one would think, be better able to assimilate into, and lead more normal lives in, Arab countries with which they already share a culture, religion and language. After all, many of them are lacking neither in money nor territory.
Of course, if Israel did accept some of these Syrian refugees, the next - and predictable - news stories would be articles (a) comparing the camps in which they would be temporarily housed in Israel to the Nazi concentration camps and (b) transforming any attempt at teaching about Israeli society and Jewish history to be a form of "refugee-washing" and a form of racism.
As it is, the Israelis have already been offering medical help to the wounded and have been sending food and other supplies via Jordan, albeit with every trace of Hebrew removed. A better question would be where is this great Arab Umma we keep hearing about? The Syrian refugees would, one would think, be better able to assimilate into, and lead more normal lives in, Arab countries with which they already share a culture, religion and language. After all, many of them are lacking neither in money nor territory.
Of course, if Israel did accept some of these Syrian refugees, the next - and predictable - news stories would be articles (a) comparing the camps in which they would be temporarily housed in Israel to the Nazi concentration camps and (b) transforming any attempt at teaching about Israeli society and Jewish history to be a form of "refugee-washing" and a form of racism.
1
Right. many of the Mideast states have already taken in droves of refugees; why not Israel? And why not us? In spite of what Dick Cheney blathers, we have our share of blame in creating the Mideast turmoil, and two useless wars rendered us incapable of dealing with Syria as a humanitarian problem a la Kosovo.
The way in which Mr. Friedman arranged the cards is forcing us to claim that there is the fourth way to solve the problems but we should refuse to do it.
There is the best way or the only way.
“Gens una sumus” or “We are one people”
See, the walls and barbed fences prevent communication in both ways, immigration of the refugees to America and export of the best ideas to the rest of the world.
Our troubles are solved by sharing the best ideas worldwide like coexistence, tolerance, openness, honesty, equality, hard work, discipline, education, anti-corruption, inclusiveness, learning from each other, learning from the mistakes of other people…
The fact is that our western governments created those bad guys in the Middle East. Several decades ago, those Arab countries emerged after the colonial oppression with the pro-socialist, inclusive, secular governments that worked hard to marginalize the radical fundamentalist and ancient sectarian hatred.
Actually America, Britain and France corrupted the local generals to orchestrate the military coups and destroy open, secular and tolerant governments in Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Syria and Libya… The western government prodded Saddam Hussein to launch the Iraq-Iran War thus reopening Pandora’s Box of dormant Sunni-Shiite animosity…
Let’s forget the foolish short term benefits and focus exclusively on the long-term priorities…
There is the best way or the only way.
“Gens una sumus” or “We are one people”
See, the walls and barbed fences prevent communication in both ways, immigration of the refugees to America and export of the best ideas to the rest of the world.
Our troubles are solved by sharing the best ideas worldwide like coexistence, tolerance, openness, honesty, equality, hard work, discipline, education, anti-corruption, inclusiveness, learning from each other, learning from the mistakes of other people…
The fact is that our western governments created those bad guys in the Middle East. Several decades ago, those Arab countries emerged after the colonial oppression with the pro-socialist, inclusive, secular governments that worked hard to marginalize the radical fundamentalist and ancient sectarian hatred.
Actually America, Britain and France corrupted the local generals to orchestrate the military coups and destroy open, secular and tolerant governments in Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Syria and Libya… The western government prodded Saddam Hussein to launch the Iraq-Iran War thus reopening Pandora’s Box of dormant Sunni-Shiite animosity…
Let’s forget the foolish short term benefits and focus exclusively on the long-term priorities…
14
.."Our troubles are solved by sharing the best ideas worldwide like coexistence, tolerance, openness, honesty, equality, hard work, discipline, education, anti-corruption, inclusiveness, learning from each other, learning from the mistakes of other people…"...
Seems to me that we've been trying that our US cities for decades with little success.
Seems to me that we've been trying that our US cities for decades with little success.
"It is why I favor high walls but only with big gates" -- this is exactly what Trump suggested, but called him dumb. Perhaps you should listen more carefully to people. Sounds like you made a bad impression on Trump, and even when he agrees with you, you fail to notice.
8
The walls (physical or otherwise) are intended to keep ILLEGAL immigrants out.
Trade, exchange of ideas and people, diversity of thought and individuals and all other good stuff Mr Friedman talks about can still happen - legally.
Trade, exchange of ideas and people, diversity of thought and individuals and all other good stuff Mr Friedman talks about can still happen - legally.
11
"Since World War II, U.S. foreign policy has focused on integrating more countries into a democratic, free-market world community built on the rule of law while seeking to deter those states that resist from destabilizing the rest. This is what we know how to do."
What evidence is there that we know how to do this? If we knew how to do this we'd have democratic countries in the middle east and an equitable distribution of food, clothing, and shelter across the globe. Our misplaced faith in the market is leading us to a borderless economy ruled by oligarchs who are not interested in democracy… they are solely interested in gaining market share and protecting their personal assets from those living in disorderly squalor.
How can we restore more order? Stop selling arms and providing military advisors and start providing humanitarian support to the refugees and to those countries who are providing asylum.
What evidence is there that we know how to do this? If we knew how to do this we'd have democratic countries in the middle east and an equitable distribution of food, clothing, and shelter across the globe. Our misplaced faith in the market is leading us to a borderless economy ruled by oligarchs who are not interested in democracy… they are solely interested in gaining market share and protecting their personal assets from those living in disorderly squalor.
How can we restore more order? Stop selling arms and providing military advisors and start providing humanitarian support to the refugees and to those countries who are providing asylum.
40
It is not up to the USA or Europe or any other nation to fix the ME….they need to fix their own problems which existed long before the West needed their one commodity, oil…..which is now an antiquated commodity that is toxic, finite and unsustainable….the ME needs to devise a better education system that involves women & girls and then build a diverse economy that actually makes things they need like steel, farms, etc. How incredibly foolish to have a mono economy, look at the results combined w/ a fanatical religion that encourages if not demands constant breeding by the women who have no civil rights, and you have an unsustainable nightmare. They need to fix this, the world cannot, it's their responsibility to innovate now.
This comment is one of the most sensible (and obvious) approaches to the world problems I have ever read in the New York Times…ever.
The underlying assumption here is that it's the West's problem to fix, and given historical & current realities it's hard to argue with that. You know what would definitely help during our time of "hard thinking" and "hard choices" though? Knowing our allies in the region are on the same page as we are in terms of reversing this tide. I won't get into Saudi Arabia's ongoing promotion of ultra conservative Wahhabism (if you don't know, Google) but I will call them and the other Gulf nations out for resettling ZERO Syrian refugees, as the rest of the world essentially gives them a pass and focuses on Europe. As the U.S. begins ramping up our own resettlement efforts, please sign this petition asking our leaders to formally press SA and the Gulf to follow our lead and begin resettlement immediately: http://wh.gov/iReyE
7
I agree, with reservations. Given Saudi Arabia's predilection towards sectarianism, how would migrants fare in that country?
There is a third option for dealing with these refugees: ignored the UN High Commissioner for Refugees remit and instead give them over to UNWRA which can place them in perpetuity in towns called "camps" located in non-Western countries that, although sharing every conceivable cultural, religious and linguistic commonality with them, will deprive them of civil rights and deny them any chance at a decent future while creating a culture of grievance and victimization - all paid for overwhelmingly by the West.
That's been the world's working model for the Palestinian Arabs, why treat their brethren (members of the famous Ummah we constantly hear about) any differently?
To clarify for those who read all comments a bit too literally, this particular comment is heavily dosed with sarcasm at the hypocrisy and double standards indulged in by people who treat what is effectively the same problem differently depending on whether it affects their country or one that is far away and of which they know little.
That's been the world's working model for the Palestinian Arabs, why treat their brethren (members of the famous Ummah we constantly hear about) any differently?
To clarify for those who read all comments a bit too literally, this particular comment is heavily dosed with sarcasm at the hypocrisy and double standards indulged in by people who treat what is effectively the same problem differently depending on whether it affects their country or one that is far away and of which they know little.
11
A little disappointed that you make no mention of the proxy wars financed by Saudi Arabia, the Emirates and Iran...and the continued financing of the USA and Russia to their proxies. As an ex-pat living in France, I can only tell you that the mood of Europeans regarding the influx of economic migrants (hard to make a living when your country is in the middle of a civil war) is to give the USA the finger. GHWB and GWB started this mess. Obama and Sarkozy added fuel to the fire with the Libyan action. The US has taken in less than 1000 refugees, and has not contributed a dime towards the costs that Europe is taking on (treaties still mean something here) to provide safe haven to these migrants. Merkel accepting 800K migrants solves their labor problem due to negative birth rates. France with its positive birth rates, high youth unemployment does not need nor can afford accepting 100K+ migrants. Boots on the ground isn't going to happen; Europeans and Americans won't support it...and Russia is sending strong signals that they won't support it either. "If we're honest" as you hypothesize, Europeans and the USA need to accept that they are responsible for this situation, going back to colonialism, Post WWI borders drawn at the collapse of the Ottoman Empire and by geopolitical/oligarchical deals made by the West with Saudi 'royalty', tyrants and oil company oligarchs since WWII. GHWB's 'new world order' is chaos. Lastly, why are no gulf states accepting refugees?
20
Au contraire, the US provides the highest level of refugee assistance to those in camps in Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan of any country in the world. $2.1 billion to Jordan alone to date.
Yes, France and England most certainly asked the US to bomb Libya into regime change and Obama was happy to oblige. They even asked to "borrow" our bombs when theirs ran out. Maybe now would be a good time for European countries to pay up on NATO dues and provide for their own security, instead of calling in the US taxpayer to fund European defense.
Yes, France and England most certainly asked the US to bomb Libya into regime change and Obama was happy to oblige. They even asked to "borrow" our bombs when theirs ran out. Maybe now would be a good time for European countries to pay up on NATO dues and provide for their own security, instead of calling in the US taxpayer to fund European defense.
1
Friedman does not consider all the alternatives.
Here's a "really wacko" idea: Instead of being adversaries of Assad in Syria, and looking at the Syrian civil war as an opportunity for regime change, we had taken a helpful intermediary position. The protests in Syria against Assad largely developed from an economic crisis brought on by a drought, and the subsequent forced migration of one million Syrians from farms into cities, where they had no work. What if we had simultaneously aided the Assad regime, while pushing for fair, non-violent treatment of initially peaceful protestors, and offered assistance to mitigate the economic crisis? Would we, diplomatically, strategically, would most directly affected by the crisis, be better or worse off? Is anyone truly threatened by Russia having a warm water port on the Mediterranean, particularly if that makes Putin/Russia feel more secure? (Having foreign bases seems to mollify many of us Americans.) Would supporting a Shia regime that is also supported by Iran through Hezbollah made Iran feel more secure, and would that be in our interests? Would any refugee crisis have been at least somewhat, perhaps substantially mitigated? Would ISIS have found a less fertile environment for its expansion into Syria? What would intermediating in this way have cost us, versus what we have paid, and will pay? Would we have been better off, or worse off, diplomatically, strategically? Would such intervention not have even benefitted Israel?
Here's a "really wacko" idea: Instead of being adversaries of Assad in Syria, and looking at the Syrian civil war as an opportunity for regime change, we had taken a helpful intermediary position. The protests in Syria against Assad largely developed from an economic crisis brought on by a drought, and the subsequent forced migration of one million Syrians from farms into cities, where they had no work. What if we had simultaneously aided the Assad regime, while pushing for fair, non-violent treatment of initially peaceful protestors, and offered assistance to mitigate the economic crisis? Would we, diplomatically, strategically, would most directly affected by the crisis, be better or worse off? Is anyone truly threatened by Russia having a warm water port on the Mediterranean, particularly if that makes Putin/Russia feel more secure? (Having foreign bases seems to mollify many of us Americans.) Would supporting a Shia regime that is also supported by Iran through Hezbollah made Iran feel more secure, and would that be in our interests? Would any refugee crisis have been at least somewhat, perhaps substantially mitigated? Would ISIS have found a less fertile environment for its expansion into Syria? What would intermediating in this way have cost us, versus what we have paid, and will pay? Would we have been better off, or worse off, diplomatically, strategically? Would such intervention not have even benefitted Israel?
16
Not "wacko" at all. Excellent points, in fact.
This is thinking fast: "If we’re honest, we have only two ways to halt this refugee flood....: build a wall and isolate these regions of disorder, or occupy them with boots on the ground, crush the bad guys .... We fool ourselves that there is a.... third way:... taking more refugees....."
Thinking slow entails more time.
In the middle east oppression, economic stagnation, drought, overpopulation, and religious extremism are at play.
Economic stagnation is a byproduct of a single commodity based economy. The west created countries and installed monarchs to divide the resources and exploit tribal and religious differences with the goal of extracting oil at maximum profit. Religious sects were chosen that legitimized the monarchs. This led to economic stagnation, wherein the monarch's became richer and religion became more extremist expediting greater oppression.( the Shah had no religious legitimacy).
Global warming developed as more nations industrialized, resulting in regional droughts, misuse of water resources, and starvation of overpopulated countries.
Religious extremism and monarchism potentiate each other. Wahhabism legitimizes the caliphate.
The beginning of a solution: end dependence on oil, redistribute the wealth of deposed monarchs, end arms shipments to the region, de-legitimize religious schools, introduce massive solar generation and desalination infrastructure, reduce population growth. This will require a scientific world body to administrate.
Thinking slow entails more time.
In the middle east oppression, economic stagnation, drought, overpopulation, and religious extremism are at play.
Economic stagnation is a byproduct of a single commodity based economy. The west created countries and installed monarchs to divide the resources and exploit tribal and religious differences with the goal of extracting oil at maximum profit. Religious sects were chosen that legitimized the monarchs. This led to economic stagnation, wherein the monarch's became richer and religion became more extremist expediting greater oppression.( the Shah had no religious legitimacy).
Global warming developed as more nations industrialized, resulting in regional droughts, misuse of water resources, and starvation of overpopulated countries.
Religious extremism and monarchism potentiate each other. Wahhabism legitimizes the caliphate.
The beginning of a solution: end dependence on oil, redistribute the wealth of deposed monarchs, end arms shipments to the region, de-legitimize religious schools, introduce massive solar generation and desalination infrastructure, reduce population growth. This will require a scientific world body to administrate.
8
"Since World War II, U.S. foreign policy has focused on integrating more countries into a democratic, free-market world community built on the rule of law while seeking to deter those states that resist from destabilizing the rest. This is what we know how to do."
I framed this statement by Thomas Friedman in quotes. I keep looking at it, and the more I look at it, the more I just want to laugh! All of the above is exactly what we have proven since the delivery of shock and awe to Iraq in 2003, THAT WE ARE NOT EVEN REMOTELY GOOD AT DOING...anymore than were the Brits.
I'd like to think that Friedman is just kidding, but past delusions like his famous utterance that to invade Iraq could be "audacious," leads me to believe that in the face of all evidence to the contrary, he actually believes what he wrote!
For the life of me I can't think of a place which has gas, oil and pipeline potential on the strategic arch of conflict, that the United States hasn't DESTABILIZED ostensibly to promote democracy, particularly during the age of George W Bush, which is not yet over.
Bush was seminal to chaos particularly because he embraced a notion of America as a revolutionary force for democracy in the world.
He was even post modern in the sense that he BRAVELY asserted in the face of dissent that "America creates its own reality," and we did, and it has been awful!
We disintegrated Iraq, and have spent years coercing Iran not to capitalize. I think Tom needs to rethink the above.
I framed this statement by Thomas Friedman in quotes. I keep looking at it, and the more I look at it, the more I just want to laugh! All of the above is exactly what we have proven since the delivery of shock and awe to Iraq in 2003, THAT WE ARE NOT EVEN REMOTELY GOOD AT DOING...anymore than were the Brits.
I'd like to think that Friedman is just kidding, but past delusions like his famous utterance that to invade Iraq could be "audacious," leads me to believe that in the face of all evidence to the contrary, he actually believes what he wrote!
For the life of me I can't think of a place which has gas, oil and pipeline potential on the strategic arch of conflict, that the United States hasn't DESTABILIZED ostensibly to promote democracy, particularly during the age of George W Bush, which is not yet over.
Bush was seminal to chaos particularly because he embraced a notion of America as a revolutionary force for democracy in the world.
He was even post modern in the sense that he BRAVELY asserted in the face of dissent that "America creates its own reality," and we did, and it has been awful!
We disintegrated Iraq, and have spent years coercing Iran not to capitalize. I think Tom needs to rethink the above.
50
You know, we have two problems here:
The first Friedman correctly identifies - that most of us do not even grasp the nature of the challenges now upon us. What gets measured gets managed, goes the old business school saying - but what we fail to measure properly is very difficult to address properly. Journalists have a big role in this, in telling the story whole and absorbing the inevitable attacks from those who don't wish to hear it.
The second is framing the response as an opportunity, and a giant one, with huge positive upsides. When the US resurrected a prostrate Europe with the Marshall Plan we were paid back many, many times over with a stable, free, prosperous Europe. Oh, and we made tens of millions of lives better in the process.
If we would turn the same mindset to an increasingly-prostrate world, we would find not only the work of a couple of generations at least, but the hope of a payoff that our grandchildren's grandchildren will thank us for.
The laundry list is simple: Climate change, education, "boots on the ground" assistance with teaching pluralism and the political stability that accompanies it. Health care. Elevating the status of women to bring more equity to their societies. Pipe dreams? Not at all.
Instead, much of the rich world rushes, in a panic, toward finger-in-the-dike solutions that will never solve our long-term challenges. And the human toll is great.
So, are we capable of new thinking? The price of a "no" answer should be prod enough.
The first Friedman correctly identifies - that most of us do not even grasp the nature of the challenges now upon us. What gets measured gets managed, goes the old business school saying - but what we fail to measure properly is very difficult to address properly. Journalists have a big role in this, in telling the story whole and absorbing the inevitable attacks from those who don't wish to hear it.
The second is framing the response as an opportunity, and a giant one, with huge positive upsides. When the US resurrected a prostrate Europe with the Marshall Plan we were paid back many, many times over with a stable, free, prosperous Europe. Oh, and we made tens of millions of lives better in the process.
If we would turn the same mindset to an increasingly-prostrate world, we would find not only the work of a couple of generations at least, but the hope of a payoff that our grandchildren's grandchildren will thank us for.
The laundry list is simple: Climate change, education, "boots on the ground" assistance with teaching pluralism and the political stability that accompanies it. Health care. Elevating the status of women to bring more equity to their societies. Pipe dreams? Not at all.
Instead, much of the rich world rushes, in a panic, toward finger-in-the-dike solutions that will never solve our long-term challenges. And the human toll is great.
So, are we capable of new thinking? The price of a "no" answer should be prod enough.
8
The implementation of your proposal will take a lot of cooperation, a commodity in short supply today. The alternative would be all out war?
In his second to last paragraph presents us with two "honest" and one apparently "dis-honest" solutions to the immediate refugee crisis, and the larger socio-economic chaos crisis:
1. Walls ("honest");
2. Boots on the ground for two generations ("honest");
3. Accepting immigrants and intermittent "no-fly zones ("dis-honest);
Neither of Friedman's "honest" choices are either honest, affordable, feasible, or effective, as we've seen throughout history. Walls do not work (Great Wall of China, Hadrian's Wall, Maginot Line, Berlin Wall, and eventually and inevitably, the Israel/Palestine walls.). Boots on the ground might win wars (WWII) but cannot win peace (That took the Marshall Plan overseas, and the benefits to G.I. Bill domestically).
Friedman may be right that "no-fly zones" will ultimately not work in the long term. But one can argue that the no fly zone over Iraq was not given enough time to work, just as so many now argue, albeit unconvincingly, that we left Iraq "too soon" (Just as we left Vietnam "too soon." Except apparently we didn't leave Vietnam too soon. On evidence, we probably didn't leave Vietnam soon enough.).
There is a valid third way, that while not easy, but possibly sustainable, we have seen work. And that is to contain undemocratic regimes (as we did the Soviet Union) until they self-destruct (As did the Soviet Union. Sorry, St. Ronnie worshippers.). China did not fall to our arms. We could have mitigated the Syrian crisis without regime change.
1. Walls ("honest");
2. Boots on the ground for two generations ("honest");
3. Accepting immigrants and intermittent "no-fly zones ("dis-honest);
Neither of Friedman's "honest" choices are either honest, affordable, feasible, or effective, as we've seen throughout history. Walls do not work (Great Wall of China, Hadrian's Wall, Maginot Line, Berlin Wall, and eventually and inevitably, the Israel/Palestine walls.). Boots on the ground might win wars (WWII) but cannot win peace (That took the Marshall Plan overseas, and the benefits to G.I. Bill domestically).
Friedman may be right that "no-fly zones" will ultimately not work in the long term. But one can argue that the no fly zone over Iraq was not given enough time to work, just as so many now argue, albeit unconvincingly, that we left Iraq "too soon" (Just as we left Vietnam "too soon." Except apparently we didn't leave Vietnam too soon. On evidence, we probably didn't leave Vietnam soon enough.).
There is a valid third way, that while not easy, but possibly sustainable, we have seen work. And that is to contain undemocratic regimes (as we did the Soviet Union) until they self-destruct (As did the Soviet Union. Sorry, St. Ronnie worshippers.). China did not fall to our arms. We could have mitigated the Syrian crisis without regime change.
2
Make hiring illegals a criminal offense and lock up anyone who employs illegals. The nonsense of the fence will be made manifest.
Mitch was correct, illegals will self deport if there are no jobs.
To countenance otherwise is to pander to the creators of the problem.
Mitch was correct, illegals will self deport if there are no jobs.
To countenance otherwise is to pander to the creators of the problem.
2
There is a foreign invasion of refugees of alien cultures from disfunctional arab and african countries to Europe, specifically Germany as it is obviously seen as the land of generous hand-outs and welfare. Much of it is to escape wars and deprivation, and you are right when you say that USA should be taking in far more seeking amnesty from Iraq and Libya as it had a primary role in those countries melt-down, and also because USA has a far better record of success in integrating new immigrants than Europe. As far as I know the millions of refugees in Jordan, Lebanon and Turkey are still being kept in camps, and rich Arab Gulf states have closed their borders as have many muslim countries. These have far more in common in religion, language and culture with the refugees but Europe alone is being expected to freely absorb into their unwilling societies this population displacement. The macro factors that you describe are crucial in the big picture of the collapsing region and the problem will not go away, but it is in the micro solutions of fair distribution around the world of people seeking safe haven that must be sought
1
According to Wikipedia:
Intel confirmed in 2015 that the pace of advancement has slowed, starting at the 22 nm node around 2012 and continuing at 14 nm. Brian Krzanich, CEO of Intel, announced that “our cadence today is closer to two and a half years than two.”
So Moore's law is slowing down, not accelerating. It is now not physically possible for it to even hold at the historical pace (2-year doubling time for transistor density) because we are at or closely approaching the molecular level where there is nowhere to put more transistors.
I know you're trying to make a general polemical point, but facts matter. Technology does not always continue to accelerate.
Intel confirmed in 2015 that the pace of advancement has slowed, starting at the 22 nm node around 2012 and continuing at 14 nm. Brian Krzanich, CEO of Intel, announced that “our cadence today is closer to two and a half years than two.”
So Moore's law is slowing down, not accelerating. It is now not physically possible for it to even hold at the historical pace (2-year doubling time for transistor density) because we are at or closely approaching the molecular level where there is nowhere to put more transistors.
I know you're trying to make a general polemical point, but facts matter. Technology does not always continue to accelerate.
5
John,
The world needs all hands on deck and your argument is spurious indeed since the base from which we measure is so much greater. The time in which it takes to double the world's population from today's 7 billion has much more meaning when we realize that most of human history meant a base of less than a billion.
Let us re-examine the Biblical injunction to be fruitful and multiple and see whether we need to simply add or subtract.
The world needs all hands on deck and your argument is spurious indeed since the base from which we measure is so much greater. The time in which it takes to double the world's population from today's 7 billion has much more meaning when we realize that most of human history meant a base of less than a billion.
Let us re-examine the Biblical injunction to be fruitful and multiple and see whether we need to simply add or subtract.
A very depressing article.
5
William,
Reality is neither depressing nor optimistic. What we choose to do about is what gives us hope or despair. America was supposed to be about the future being in our hands. Why are so many Americans committed to returning to a past that can never again be?
The time has come to confine Ronald Reagan to the dustbin of history and put solar panels back on the White House.
Reality is neither depressing nor optimistic. What we choose to do about is what gives us hope or despair. America was supposed to be about the future being in our hands. Why are so many Americans committed to returning to a past that can never again be?
The time has come to confine Ronald Reagan to the dustbin of history and put solar panels back on the White House.
"Since World War II, U.S. foreign policy has focused on integrating more countries into a democratic, free-market world community built on the rule of law while seeking to deter those states that resist from destabilizing the rest. This is what we know how to do."
We know how to do this?
We know how to do this?
7
Thanks to the unimaginable foresight of US foreign policy, our "leaders" have made the foremost contribution to the world of disorder. Our incessant meddling and unsuccessful attempts to bring "freedom" and "democracy" to Libya, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, et al, have been unprecedented in creating more disordered states than in any period in recent history. We've made our own bed and now we are feeling the consequences of our action.
19
Mother nature being the factor that we cannot seem to control here, will certainly trump everything. It will destroy and forcibly control population. Our world is always in flux and we will just adapt or perish. All we can do is live to the best of our ability today and help the suffering as much as we can.
6
Get used to it. Vast migrations away from equatorial areas where hot is getting hotter and water is getting scarcer will become a steady surge in the coming years. European nations are running ad campaigns to increase their own birthrates, while vast hordes of people are trying to find the necessities of life as well as a way to get away from marketplace bombings. They are coming, and we might as well accept it.
9
So forcing violent regime change isn't the answer (see Iraq and Libya)
Forcing peaceful regime change is a mess, too (see Zimbabwe).
Ignoring the situation altogether, or hoping it burns itself out, is a major mess (see Syria, Rwanda, the Central African Republic, etc).
Splitting up a country along supposedly cultural lines? Also a mess (South Sudan).
Maybe there's a failed state somewhere that wants to volunteer to be somebody's colony.
Forcing peaceful regime change is a mess, too (see Zimbabwe).
Ignoring the situation altogether, or hoping it burns itself out, is a major mess (see Syria, Rwanda, the Central African Republic, etc).
Splitting up a country along supposedly cultural lines? Also a mess (South Sudan).
Maybe there's a failed state somewhere that wants to volunteer to be somebody's colony.
5
There was a time, was it the sixties, when there was a big push for ZPG, Zero Population Growth, the fear then was that millions would starve for lack of food. Then came the so called "Green Revolution", agricultural methods and crops that pretty easily met the demand. It seems that populations are now at a level that any dislocation (food, fuel, war, bad governments, etc.) can cause massive movements in population. Look down the road a few years, and it only looks worse. Folks, it is time to dust off those old ZPG posters in the attic. We have amazing intelligence, our species need not breed like rabbits.
226
Then perhaps new immigrants to otherwise population-stable areas (the US, Europe) shouldn't breed like rabbits and should accept Western thought that the world is already overpopulated and we have pushed Mother Nature to her extreme.
1
We need a way to make ZPG compulsory on countries like Bangladesh which are so vastly overpopulated
In other words, humans adapted and proved that the "global consensus" or "settled science" of the 1960s was bunk.
I really do wish Tomas Friedman would drop this facile categorisation “World of Order” and “World of Disorder”. “World of Order” is code for US (Western) Hegemony and rule by a neoliberal (Corporatist Capitalist) ideology. The underlying assumption is that Corporatist Capitalism is a source of stability (or order if you will).
On the contrary the predations of Corporate Capitalism worldwide are creating widespread disorder. The grotesque gouging of world resources for privileged benefit is totally unsustainable and it’s results are plain to see.
On the contrary the predations of Corporate Capitalism worldwide are creating widespread disorder. The grotesque gouging of world resources for privileged benefit is totally unsustainable and it’s results are plain to see.
26
Oh great, well, I hope someone tells me when to close my eyes.
2
This "Camp of the Saints" scenario was inevitable.
1
The only long term solution is to make the countries people are fleeing from livable. This is a tall order, the political will of the countries receiving the migrants is not there. It is not beyond the realm of possibility for the wealthy countries to come up with a common strategic plan and resources to solve this problem but it does not seem probable now. An enormous collective effort did take place in WWII to defeat the menaces of Nazism and fascism. Today we are facing a disintegration in slow motion which is bound to accelerate if nothing is done. To stop and reverse it will require a similar effort, but it will not happen until the people in the wealthy countries start feeling that their comfortable lives cannot continue while the rest of the world falls apart. At the very least those fleeing should be organized and given the means to go back and confront the forces that make living there impossible.
2
People are fleeing from the effects of their own population growth colliding with the limits of their environment. This whole process began with the collapse of subsistence farming in Syria from extended drought, which forced migration into already crowded cities.
My heart aches for all these people. I don't care if they are fleeing war or abuse or poverty. They are desperate people doing what desperate people have always done - trying to find a more tolerable situation for themselves and their families, especially the children. Yes, I get that practically speaking one part of the world cannot continue to empty into another part of the world. Yes, I get that there is some risk that 'bad guys' will arrive along with desperate families. Still...
Building a wall is not the solution in Europe or here. As another piece in today's Times points out, we must do more for the refugees who are, for now, remaining in the Middle East - we must do MUCH more and do it yesterday! Winter is coming toward people living in conditions which are miserable even in the warm days of September.
I do not see how "boots on the ground" even as a 2 generation project would work because trying to beat people into submission to our world view (even if we consider it a very good and right world view) seldom works. What we gain in one way would almost certainly raise up new revolutionary groups to resist us. The truth of it is that there are no easy answers and even the hard answers seem untenable.
Building a wall is not the solution in Europe or here. As another piece in today's Times points out, we must do more for the refugees who are, for now, remaining in the Middle East - we must do MUCH more and do it yesterday! Winter is coming toward people living in conditions which are miserable even in the warm days of September.
I do not see how "boots on the ground" even as a 2 generation project would work because trying to beat people into submission to our world view (even if we consider it a very good and right world view) seldom works. What we gain in one way would almost certainly raise up new revolutionary groups to resist us. The truth of it is that there are no easy answers and even the hard answers seem untenable.
12
"The world is being redivided into regions of “order” and “disorder”"
That is not just happening beyond our control. It is not all global warming either, though that doesn't help.
The world of order is systematically smashing the world in disorder. Go through it one by one, and each of them is afflicted from outside, each traceable back to that world of order.
We don't like what comes of this? Well then, stop doing it. Try healing rather than destruction. Not more bombs and drones.
We've built up to this step by step. Congo was being destroyed even more than Belgium had in a Cold War proxy struggle, and somebody from the West killed the UN Secretary General when he flew there trying to solve it.
Shortly after, in a near replay, the Biafran independence war in Nigeria killed millions, mostly by starvation, food as a weapon.
Nation after nation, it has been the same, and they never get put back together.
Somalia dissolved when the West took out it disgusting government. Then it remained ungoverned as the West sponsored invasions to take out each successive local effort for government to emerge. The puppet government desired by the West never took, never governed more than the area around the HQ for it that we guarded. Failed puppet government are a common theme too.
There isn't space to go down the whole list.
We are doing this. Stop. Our war hawks keep telling us each one is necessary, vital to our national security. It is doing this instead. Stop doing Iraq Wars.
That is not just happening beyond our control. It is not all global warming either, though that doesn't help.
The world of order is systematically smashing the world in disorder. Go through it one by one, and each of them is afflicted from outside, each traceable back to that world of order.
We don't like what comes of this? Well then, stop doing it. Try healing rather than destruction. Not more bombs and drones.
We've built up to this step by step. Congo was being destroyed even more than Belgium had in a Cold War proxy struggle, and somebody from the West killed the UN Secretary General when he flew there trying to solve it.
Shortly after, in a near replay, the Biafran independence war in Nigeria killed millions, mostly by starvation, food as a weapon.
Nation after nation, it has been the same, and they never get put back together.
Somalia dissolved when the West took out it disgusting government. Then it remained ungoverned as the West sponsored invasions to take out each successive local effort for government to emerge. The puppet government desired by the West never took, never governed more than the area around the HQ for it that we guarded. Failed puppet government are a common theme too.
There isn't space to go down the whole list.
We are doing this. Stop. Our war hawks keep telling us each one is necessary, vital to our national security. It is doing this instead. Stop doing Iraq Wars.
66
I disagree in part, Mark Thomason. There may well be a time for causing humanitarian regime change from the outside, but 1) it must be done only when the situation is dire, 2) it must be done only where – as is so often the case – the regime is looting the country of its natural resources and pocketing the money instead of taking proper care of its people, 3) it must be done only after the outsiders effecting the change have a new, hopefully honest government ready to step in, 4) the outsiders remain until the new leaders enjoy widespread popular support, and 5) U.N. observers remain even longer.
This is a tall and expensive order, but simply absorbing migrants is not enough. The source has to be stopped.
This is a tall and expensive order, but simply absorbing migrants is not enough. The source has to be stopped.
Immigration must be legal immigration. Build the wall with legal immigration gates, period!
Refugees are another issue. Why is somebody a refugee? Ask the question honestly, openly and deal with the problem. A legal refugee must be helped.
Now, in the Middle East, what form of governments exist? Why do we Americans support these governments? Why do we tolerate and hide the stolen wealth from these countries? Why do we attack and bomb Afghanistan, Yemen, Iraq, Syria, Libya and threaten Aljazeera news with bombing?
Our American government is dysfunctional. We are the richest and most powerful nation on the planet, but, we are failing in our abilities. We have been very unfair and corrupt in what we have done, and are doing, in the Middle East, hence these refugees.
Even in our own hemisphere we Americans have failed. Why is there so much poverty within America and surrounding us, see the islands in the Caribbean, poor, night and day compared to America.
Complicated? Not really, but our government officials are ignorant and greedy. We need major reform in our government. Remove 90%, and do not replace, of the senate and the house, we need accountability. Anybody that has worked for a committee versus a one person CEO will know the difference. Decisions are fast and there is accountability. That is the environment that Donald Trump is from, and he will not be capable to manage the Washington DC federal government because it lacks accountability.
Refugees are another issue. Why is somebody a refugee? Ask the question honestly, openly and deal with the problem. A legal refugee must be helped.
Now, in the Middle East, what form of governments exist? Why do we Americans support these governments? Why do we tolerate and hide the stolen wealth from these countries? Why do we attack and bomb Afghanistan, Yemen, Iraq, Syria, Libya and threaten Aljazeera news with bombing?
Our American government is dysfunctional. We are the richest and most powerful nation on the planet, but, we are failing in our abilities. We have been very unfair and corrupt in what we have done, and are doing, in the Middle East, hence these refugees.
Even in our own hemisphere we Americans have failed. Why is there so much poverty within America and surrounding us, see the islands in the Caribbean, poor, night and day compared to America.
Complicated? Not really, but our government officials are ignorant and greedy. We need major reform in our government. Remove 90%, and do not replace, of the senate and the house, we need accountability. Anybody that has worked for a committee versus a one person CEO will know the difference. Decisions are fast and there is accountability. That is the environment that Donald Trump is from, and he will not be capable to manage the Washington DC federal government because it lacks accountability.
4
So Mr. Friedman,
The entire Middle East destabilizing debacle of The Charge of The Fools Brigade onto Iraq was for:
"integrating more countries into a democratic, free market, world community"?
The entire Middle East destabilizing debacle of The Charge of The Fools Brigade onto Iraq was for:
"integrating more countries into a democratic, free market, world community"?
25
The only thing that will save the world is democracy, the only way the US can help in that regard is to find its way out of its current plutocratic bent and provide the world with an example of democracy. Boots on the ground do not work.
4
Thanks for outlining exactly the overwhelming problems the world is facing. Our leaders are all ducking any mention of these huge problems, sticking their heads in the sand and pretending that it is business as usual. We are in for a very rude awakening.
11
"But if either man [Trump/Walker] were running for office in Europe today, his position on walls everywhere would be getting a big hearing, as masses of refugees from the African and Middle Eastern worlds of disorder try to walk, swim, sail, drive, bus and rail their way into Europe’s world of order."
Not true. Trump and Walker would get a big hearing only in conservative, right wing dominated countries like Hungary, Saudi Arabia, etc. In the social democratic countries of Europe, it is mostly about helping. Germany is awesome. In Austria there are literally hundreds of people showing up to help every day. Last night my neighbor sent me a message that he is bringing food and supplies to the West Train station and asked if we had something to add. Sweden has just said they are providing permanent residence visas to vetted refugees. The list goes on.
Tom, you're fond of writing that, "The the first rule of holes is if you find yourself in one, stop digging." Maybe you can spend some "pundit capital" on espousing how democratic socialistic countries that care more about people than corporations are already finding solutions, rather than pointing out the problems while supporting those forces that keep digging.
Final note: Right wing conservative Israel, home to the "Iron Dome" already, and next door neighbor to Syria, has said they will take in ZERO refugees.
Not true. Trump and Walker would get a big hearing only in conservative, right wing dominated countries like Hungary, Saudi Arabia, etc. In the social democratic countries of Europe, it is mostly about helping. Germany is awesome. In Austria there are literally hundreds of people showing up to help every day. Last night my neighbor sent me a message that he is bringing food and supplies to the West Train station and asked if we had something to add. Sweden has just said they are providing permanent residence visas to vetted refugees. The list goes on.
Tom, you're fond of writing that, "The the first rule of holes is if you find yourself in one, stop digging." Maybe you can spend some "pundit capital" on espousing how democratic socialistic countries that care more about people than corporations are already finding solutions, rather than pointing out the problems while supporting those forces that keep digging.
Final note: Right wing conservative Israel, home to the "Iron Dome" already, and next door neighbor to Syria, has said they will take in ZERO refugees.
10
" . . . the three largest forces on the planet — Mother Nature (climate change, biodiversity loss and population growth in developing countries), Moore’s law (the steady doubling in the power of microchips and, more broadly, of technology) and the market (globalization tying the world ever more tightly together) — are all in simultaneous, rapid acceleration."
Sorry, but it's just plain wrong to say that Moore's Law is accelerating. It's remained constant since it was first formulated by Gordon Moore in 1965. The law is static; it's the power of microchips that's accelerating.
Sorry, but it's just plain wrong to say that Moore's Law is accelerating. It's remained constant since it was first formulated by Gordon Moore in 1965. The law is static; it's the power of microchips that's accelerating.
2
If there’s a solution, it can’t be in the removal of the smarter and stronger inhabitants of the world of disorder to the world of order, leaving the weaker behind, as is happening now. It must be somehow in extending the borders of the world of order: the moral equivalent of imperialism.
2
"lets mine our harbors, too" "as Lindsey Graham jokingly suggested", reminds me of that old refrain "Never say never." Steve Schwarzman of BlackStone commented that his great fear was technology disruptions ability to destroy so many human jobs that the social upheaval in places such as China, India and else-ware would implode the world economies. Let's hope Lindsey Graham's joke remains a joke.
4
Mr. Schwarzman is an example to show vast wealth and good sense do not always go together. These post apocalyptic visions have been tossed around for decades for these two nations. Yet for all their imperfections they continue to defy such dire predictions.
1
Friedman seems to be repeating the myth that Iraq is an artificial construct. To the contrary, the country has been around for over two millenia, ruled from Baghdad or its environs. Even in the Ottoman period Basra was usually controlled from Baghdad. The Arabic is fairly uniform throughout the country, and Shi'ite Islam makes up the majority of people. The relatively small Kurdish area is the main linguistic exception.
10
Yes Tom, we know, "high wall with a big gate." But your actions say something else. The Gang of Eight Bill is a very expensive "low wall" (the Congressional Budget Office says it will only reduce illegal immigration by 25%, at a cost of half a trillion dollars. That's what the politicians you support are offering. In contrast, Trump is talking about letting legions of illegal immigrants back quickly. Other "hard liners" on the GOP side offer a less drastic version, but still insist that the "high wall" (enforcement) be in place as a condition for the "wide gate."
It's quite a news to know that the post-WW II US foreign policy was to help integrate the democratic world. Do US special ties and defense pacts with military ruled states, monarchs and Sheikhs and despots in South and West Asia, Middle East and Africa prove such a reality? Again, is US not responsible for much of the disorder and chaos turning most of the countries in the Middle East or North/ West Africa ungovrrnable? Finally, even while being generous and accommodating to the heavy flood of refugees Europe could retain its calm and anchor how's it that a mere thought of refugees does badly unsttle the US political class, making it forget the very history of America, the land of immigrants? Is Europe less orderly or democratic than the US as to make it uncomfortable like the US with the refugee presence as it could spill disorder there also? Why such two different responses to the refugee problem across the Atlantic?
8
The US already takes more than 50% of the UNCHR's refugee quota, with more than 40% of our refugee visas going to those from the ME.
The US is the single largest donor of Syrian refugee assistance in the world.
Let other countries, including wealthy BRICS countries, look to what they are doing before looking to the US to fix yet another problem (stop ISIS, fund refugees, etc.)
The US is the single largest donor of Syrian refugee assistance in the world.
Let other countries, including wealthy BRICS countries, look to what they are doing before looking to the US to fix yet another problem (stop ISIS, fund refugees, etc.)
Indeed! Friedman's description of the intentions and practices of US foreign policy has done plenty of damage disrupting democratic efforts. Think Iran, Chile, Nicaragua, Congo. Mr Friedman, are you in the employ of the Sate Department?
1
Friedman focuses our attention on unwelcome immigrants, and refugees from lands in disorder. But, if Republicans take over the presidency--giving them control of all 3 branches of government--walls along our northern and southern borders and mines along both coasts will be certainly be necessary....not to keep others out, but to keep Americans from escaping....seeking refuge in more sane and orderly lands.
6
Moore's law is actually decelerating, the doubling rate no longer sustainable. (I'm sure Friedman knows this, perhaps I'm misinterpreting.) The near term challenge is adapting algorithms to new computer architectures (multi core, GPU, accelerators, etc. and one day quantum computers). This demands more skilled workers to solve the worlds problems and sustainably raise global living standards. This is a good thing - what else is there to do on a planet but solve its "problems"?
2
We know how to build democratic free-market countries? You mean by installing people like the Shah and Pinochet?
8
As cold warriors like Henry Kissinger will tell you, our replacement of democratically elected leaders like Salvador Allende and Mohammed Mossadeqh with dictators like Pinochet and the Shah were dictated by cold war "realities." We are now watching history being rewritten once again. Gadaffi, Mubarak and Hussein--soon to be joined by Assad if we have our way--represented obstacles to American carte blanche in an area that stretches from the straits of Gibraltar to Indonesia. This is Friedman's idea of a "post-colonial, post-imperial world."
Your observation is correct.
We will soon be witness to a prolonged period of extreme human suffering as the population in many areas of our planet outstrips available resources.
Although you should have emphasized that this is largely due to societal – religious and other - gridlock on the subject of birth control and family planning. It is also due to the failure of the drug industry to introduce low cost conception preventions.
The Syrian and North African emigrations today illustrate the beginning of a very serious planetary overpopulation problem.
www.InquiryAbraham.com
We will soon be witness to a prolonged period of extreme human suffering as the population in many areas of our planet outstrips available resources.
Although you should have emphasized that this is largely due to societal – religious and other - gridlock on the subject of birth control and family planning. It is also due to the failure of the drug industry to introduce low cost conception preventions.
The Syrian and North African emigrations today illustrate the beginning of a very serious planetary overpopulation problem.
www.InquiryAbraham.com
20
Breeding more and more humans doesn't help - why not have a one child policy like China?
And robots in the workplace are sure to see a population explosion - eliminating fast food jobs and other such entry level employment.
A perfect storm is coming...
And robots in the workplace are sure to see a population explosion - eliminating fast food jobs and other such entry level employment.
A perfect storm is coming...
17
Return to words from my childhood? "Eat the food on your plate, dear. For millions of children are starving in India and Africa." Except that, this time, it may be billions.
5
Once again Tom Friedman nails it. Humans are infesting the earth like a swarm of locusts and natural systems are adjusting through climate change and ecological collapse. We urgently need a grand re-think on these trends but I see no sign of one. It may very well be that humanity just isn't up to it -- a hard fact to live with. But harder still is the fact that none of our leaders have organized any meaningful response. (The plodding ho-hum efforts to cut carbon emmisions is an example... Oh maybe we'll get around to it some day... What's on TV? Did you see the new app for home brews?) Thank you Tom Friedman for at least bothering to notice...
289
Basically you're right. Humanity isn't up to managing the biggest problems, and so Mother Nature will do it for us. This means a lot of hardship for an awful lot of people. But if we view the history of life on Earth, that's just how it works. Our civilization, advanced as it is in some ways, cannot cope effectively enough with the social, political, economic, and environmental problems it has created. Our virtues and our flaws overlap to a great extent. That's our tragedy.
64
Wonderful comment. Add to it the human tendency to see humanity as a "superior" species entitled to ignore the welfare of all the other species...
1
@Tom Beach: I agree. Nature doesn't care whether humans will make the necessary changes to reduce climate change and ecological collapse. It's natural systems will adjust accordingly. The only question is whether humans will be able to evolve to survive these changes.
Thank you for mentioning over population. Three pounds of stuff does not fit into a one pound bag. Even the Pope in Rome has acknowledged this fact. The limits to growth are staring us right in the face, and it's not going to get politicked away by any slogans or declarations, fancy speeches or posturing blather-scaphes.
25
The combination of factors cited in this article & others--climate change; population growth in underdeveloped countries; collapse of existing "political order;" dehydration of the planet (think California and much of the world); human (animal) instinct to migrate to more fertile territory; dissolution of human empathy in the face of millions of people migrating; along with human greed, self-interest & myopia--all spell the end of life on this planet as we know it.
6
Tom Friedman assume we all agree that globalizm is good, and that imperialism was well intentioned. It's clear to thinking people neither is true. Globalizm brought about much more burning of fossil fuels, and so did imperialism, which brought us climate change. This brought us refugees. At the heart of the world's misergy is greed. Banking, fossil fuel corporations, war profiteers, drove this mess and now their authority can not keep up with the mess they made. Friedman presents us with two choices; more wars to maintain order or isolation, as if they are the only ones and then says, well maybe they won't work and we have some hard thinking to do. It would have been nice, if some hard thinking had already taken place. Because it's not just a new order in the most exploited or "weaker" countries that need to take place, but a new order everywhere, based on lateral power, and trickle up power. Revamping our energy sources world wide is a great place to start. Stop the fossil fuel interests from interfering and let the new energy innovations take hold. That alone would eliminate 80% of the world's present conflicts. Of course, how do you take power away from these entrenched interests? Maybe a vote for Bernie Sanders or Jill Stein might help.
29
Good to know that war produces "disorder" and that we can reject people in humanitarian need on that account.
I am reminded by this column of the old sit-com "Get Smart," with its forces of Kaos and Control.
I am reminded by this column of the old sit-com "Get Smart," with its forces of Kaos and Control.
10
Well, the first step in building this new order was to oust Iraq's Saddam Hussein and the second step was to oust Syria's Assad. In neither case, while demanding their departure in the name of freedom, human rights and all that is holy, how to preserve the pluralism, however limited, that these regimes embodied, was thought about. After these two, the next project was Iran; Obama seems to have short-circuited that for now, but who knows what the next US elections will bring!
Our role in promoting the disorder in the name of our ideologies, however well-intentioned, needs to be admitted.
Our role in promoting the disorder in the name of our ideologies, however well-intentioned, needs to be admitted.
98
Libya, you forgot Libya - another "victory".
1
Amid all the news of refugees and the way different countries are reacting, I can't help thinking back to my college days when I was privileged to have as fellow students two of the Hungarian refugees that the university had admitted after the 1956 uprising. This should have an opportunity for Hungary's leaders act as other nations acted to their citizens in 1956, but they refuse to honor this moral debt and for that I feel that they are particularly bad actors today.
14
The Hungarian citizens who left Hungary were eventually treated well. Perhaps those who remained weren't party to that treatment and thus aren't as magnanimous as as those who left.
Friedman is trying to apologize for the Neoliberal world he loves so much and has profited from by writing books about the wonders of our new age.
Now, the wheels have come off his Lexus and his olive tree is dying a slow and painful death due to drought.
Yet, Friedman calls for more boots to be sent to desert nations with some boots returning in body bags and others returning sans one boot.
Will Friedman ever learn?
Now, the wheels have come off his Lexus and his olive tree is dying a slow and painful death due to drought.
Yet, Friedman calls for more boots to be sent to desert nations with some boots returning in body bags and others returning sans one boot.
Will Friedman ever learn?
86
Huh? My take from Friedman's "The Lexus and the Olive Tree" was that all of this disruption was bound to occur because of the tension created between the new global, technological economy and the more traditional places dependent on local resources and culture. I took away a feeling of foreboding after that read decades ago.
I don't remember Friedman cheer-leading the Lexus or the Golden Arches. Yet that's what you insinuate?
I don't remember Friedman cheer-leading the Lexus or the Golden Arches. Yet that's what you insinuate?
Funny you must be a conservative and typically you don't have a solution. Just a screed against Friedman who has raised the conversation. He wrote what I've been thinking about but it is not the US that has to intervene directly. We have to help those who would help themselves.
The populations of Africa and the Middle East are still growing exponentially. Allowing these populations to overwhelm Europe - especially in such a short period of time - is an unimaginable social experiment. Most likely Europe will become Africa and the Middle East.
123
Some of those fleeing zones of disorder into zones of order will thrive in their new environment -- just look at how many Indian CEO's are running U.S.-based corporations.
But many carry the seeds of disorder within them as a kind of "cultural meme virus". The zones of disorder did not emerge ex nihilio. There are several causes, some geographic/climatalogical -- but without falling into the facile trope that "we caused it" through intervention (or was it lack of intervention?), the fact is that the main culprit is a culture where there is a lack of respect for "the other".
"The other" includes women, minorities, foreigners, societal critics like journalists & academics, other creeds & religions; non-tribal or family members -- and yes, even beasts of burden and domestic animals.
If the rate at which the newcomers into the zones of order can be assimilated into the system of order is exceeded by the weight of their sheer numbers, then the more likely outcome is to convert the zones of order into zones of disorder. Fasten your seat belts...
But many carry the seeds of disorder within them as a kind of "cultural meme virus". The zones of disorder did not emerge ex nihilio. There are several causes, some geographic/climatalogical -- but without falling into the facile trope that "we caused it" through intervention (or was it lack of intervention?), the fact is that the main culprit is a culture where there is a lack of respect for "the other".
"The other" includes women, minorities, foreigners, societal critics like journalists & academics, other creeds & religions; non-tribal or family members -- and yes, even beasts of burden and domestic animals.
If the rate at which the newcomers into the zones of order can be assimilated into the system of order is exceeded by the weight of their sheer numbers, then the more likely outcome is to convert the zones of order into zones of disorder. Fasten your seat belts...
158
Since when is India part of your "zone of disorder"? It is a thriving and growing economy with 1.3 billion people.
Do you even know where India is?
Do you even know where India is?
1
All of those Indian CEOs are here legally.
1
I guess it all comes down to how picky you are about whom you invite into your home. Personally I get nervous when I have strangers sleeping in the next bedroom. Must be all those action pictures I watch.
7
I see you dismissing the two solutions you propose (building a wall or overthrowing their bad leaders), but i dont see you propose an actual solution. I'd like a detailed explanation of why building a wall is a bad thing.
A single migrant costs the German taxpayer about 15,000 euros (they're entitled to full German social welfare, as well as free education & medical care). Now lets assume half of all Syrian migrants make it to Germany, thats 5 million people. Multiply the two numbers together, that's a 75 billion euro annual cost to Germany. Every year. In perpetuity. That's greater than the German education budget. And that's just the Syrians.
The UN estimates that Africa's population will increase by 3 billion by 2100. The average woman in Nigeria has 5.5 children. That means their population trebles every generation. The slightest conflict or civil unrest in any of these failed states, and suddenly there's an open door to Germany, they're all allowed come, is that really what we're saying? Its the insanity of all this i find most disturbing. The Germans are usually very rational and industrious people, but they have thrown all sense out the window. And they double down on it even when the obvious flaws are pointed out. The only solution, i'm afraid, is that Europe will turn increasingly, and violently, right-wing.
A single migrant costs the German taxpayer about 15,000 euros (they're entitled to full German social welfare, as well as free education & medical care). Now lets assume half of all Syrian migrants make it to Germany, thats 5 million people. Multiply the two numbers together, that's a 75 billion euro annual cost to Germany. Every year. In perpetuity. That's greater than the German education budget. And that's just the Syrians.
The UN estimates that Africa's population will increase by 3 billion by 2100. The average woman in Nigeria has 5.5 children. That means their population trebles every generation. The slightest conflict or civil unrest in any of these failed states, and suddenly there's an open door to Germany, they're all allowed come, is that really what we're saying? Its the insanity of all this i find most disturbing. The Germans are usually very rational and industrious people, but they have thrown all sense out the window. And they double down on it even when the obvious flaws are pointed out. The only solution, i'm afraid, is that Europe will turn increasingly, and violently, right-wing.
126
Germany has put Turks to work at lower skilled jobs in Germany for decades. They have also succeeded in integrating a whole country of semi-refugees, East Germany. Those new immigrants that cannot do higher skilled jobs will wind up doing menial work. Germany may have some trouble integrating all of them, but they gradually will most. And don't forget, many of those fleeing had the money to do so, as they were once professionals in Syria, or where ever, they will find work.
1
You ignore the fact that an assimilated immigrant/refugee will eventually become a productive citizen working & paying taxes & consuming. In countries with low birth rates & generous welfare benefits having a young population to support the older generation is essential.
2
Just a note. Your math includes a plus sign but no minus sign. Do you assume that these refugees will contribute nothing to Germany's finances? They will just be a burden?
We, alone, cannot defeat the bad guys in the ME. We'll need Iran, and we can supply air support. US boots on the ground thinking is not a winner here.
We need to negotiate a truce in Syria. Forget replacing Assad for now, all sides there have committed war crimes. Russia has vowed to help--hold them to it instead of trying for regime change (yet again) while creating millions of refugees. Who would we--& Saudi & Turkey--prefer heading Syria? Seems we've been suckered into another Saudi salafist Sunni plot, and he isn't a saint but who is around there? And Erdogan turned on Assad.
We and NATO must stop this. We should be taking the lead, anything to stop this long bloody conflict yet we're not.
There's much more at play here than you let on. "Will the ends, will the means". First, identify the root. Then the best way to attack it. Hint: it's not your plan.
We need to negotiate a truce in Syria. Forget replacing Assad for now, all sides there have committed war crimes. Russia has vowed to help--hold them to it instead of trying for regime change (yet again) while creating millions of refugees. Who would we--& Saudi & Turkey--prefer heading Syria? Seems we've been suckered into another Saudi salafist Sunni plot, and he isn't a saint but who is around there? And Erdogan turned on Assad.
We and NATO must stop this. We should be taking the lead, anything to stop this long bloody conflict yet we're not.
There's much more at play here than you let on. "Will the ends, will the means". First, identify the root. Then the best way to attack it. Hint: it's not your plan.
23
Julie's thinking is in a possibly productive direction. More such please - Julie, everyone.
1
How could there be any more "at play" when Friedman says, in effect, everything is at play?
Moore's "Law" is actually a historical statistic, not an immutable law, like the laws of physics which suggest that nothing, not excluding the power of microchips, grows forever. Globalization is not inevitable either. It is likely to continue for years to come, but how and in what form depends on politics, economics, law and international relations, and not just on technology. Mother nature is more predictable, and Mr. Friedman's observations are more apt. Population growth, species extinction, and global climate change, cannot stop on a dime. What this means is that, properly thought through, we have more possibilities (and more risks) than the crude binary choice Mr. Friedman posits, between a kind of monstrous new imperialism and massive wall-building. Even in Israel, where those two choices loom much larger in the toolkit of feasible policies, the alternative possibility of a peaceful accommodation with the Palestinians remains open (albeit not on terms desired by the extremist settler fringe, and their US devotees).
48
Israel has built border fences that work near-perfectly with no associated problems --and has now begun the last segment along the border with Jordan. Thomas Friedman needs to explain why the simple and straightforward Israeli border controls work so well, in a poor and volatile region, and yet he claims they cannot work for the USA.
28
Perfectly for whom? Certanly not for the Palestiians whose neighbrohoods have neen divided, and who can no longer freely travel from one town to another in their own land.
7
Because imprisoning peoples behind walls only does two things:
1. It pushes the problem a little down the road.
2. It makes the problem worse.
Just think what will happen to the US when Mexico and huge areas of the US become a desert, and large areas of Canada become arable. Walker's wall may become known as the wall to keep Americans out.
1. It pushes the problem a little down the road.
2. It makes the problem worse.
Just think what will happen to the US when Mexico and huge areas of the US become a desert, and large areas of Canada become arable. Walker's wall may become known as the wall to keep Americans out.
4
Peter I gather by your comments you haven't been to the "occupied territories." The wall Israel built is successful in physically keeping Palestinians in a permanent lock down situation, similar to what East Germany did to its citizens in Berlin. And we know how that chapter in history ended.
7
In terms of Syria, we've been looking for allies against IS. So the Russians step forward, and now all of a sudden, we have cold feet? If we truly want stability there with the defeat of IS, let their ground troops in.
Telling: most Syrian refugees want to go to Germany. Not the US. We used to be the beacon of hope for the world with lots of economic opportunity, but now, not so much. And, if you want to keep your kids out of gunfire, and death, Germany beats us hands down. America is awash with guns. Every week or so, you hear about some child shot by a stray in their own home.
Telling: most Syrian refugees want to go to Germany. Not the US. We used to be the beacon of hope for the world with lots of economic opportunity, but now, not so much. And, if you want to keep your kids out of gunfire, and death, Germany beats us hands down. America is awash with guns. Every week or so, you hear about some child shot by a stray in their own home.
47
I agree with you. Too many guns are creating an image, that's mostly accurate, of a nation that has lost its moral compass. We can thank the NRA and the gun lobby for that
2
"Telling: most Syrian refugees want to go to Germany. Not the US."
Did I miss a major poll taken on this? Have been searching & searching since reading this comment & to no avail.
Please respond with link if not too much trouble.
Thanks
Did I miss a major poll taken on this? Have been searching & searching since reading this comment & to no avail.
Please respond with link if not too much trouble.
Thanks
Refugees are fleeing countries in which the U.S. has conducted wars of aggression and resource extraction, ruining their environment and economies and destabilizing their political systems and infrastructure. As has the developed countries' economic invasions via the IMF and World Bank and licenses to steal such as the TPP. The elites are doing the same to the U.S. The U.S. low labor participation rate and environmental poisoning of poor areas shows we're all refugees now, we're all Detroit.
37
Thank you. You forgot NAFTA, which displaced multitudes of Mexican farmers in a flood of (subsidized) American corn while making a few wealthy Mexicans richer. That explains much of the pressure on the US southern border.
34
"...and destabilizing their political systems.."
Many of the current refugees wouldn't be alive today under their previously 'stable' political systems. Remember that.
Many of the current refugees wouldn't be alive today under their previously 'stable' political systems. Remember that.
In 651 when Europe was in the Dark Ages and the New World was not even imagined, the Arabs invaded Persia (Iraq) forcing the Persians to become Muslim. This resentment and ethnic hatred fueled feud has festered for 1500 years and simmers behind the numerous proxy wars currently displacing tens of millions in the Middle East. This is a Muslim problem needing a Muslim answer and our meddling will only prolong the suffering and bloodshed. Yes, the West has helped the Middle East develop its petroleum resources and has transferred huge amounts of capital into the region. There is a cartel of ME petroleum producers who determine the quantities and price of the oil extracted. It is mere illusion that the West has any cause or can make much effect in this ancient drama.
1
Mr. Friedman wrote, "population growth in developing countries," which overlooks that of all the developed countries the United States is the only one with a rapidly growing population too. In a decade America will grow by more people than there are currently Texans. Although, America's growth will be due to immigration, to the Earth it will not matter because the average American inhabitant uses a disproportionate portion of the Earth's resources irregardless of whether they were home grown or moved here. Folks, the bottom line is that nothing will be getting better with more people.
79
Wait Tom Wait!!! You forgot to divvy up the world into "arsonists" and "firefighters." How are we supposed to know who the good guys and bad guys are without knowing who are the arsonists and who are the firefighters this time around?? The problem is that you yearn for a world that is neatly divided up into some bizarre us vs them scenario according to order and disorder. Well life doesn't work that way now does it. With the coming of the Jewish New Year it may well behoove you to remember that we make plans are and God laughs.
12
"And what if China starts failing in a globalized world"?
Relax. As of 32 minutes ago (from my time of writing), the Shanghai Stock Exchange is up 2.3% today, with general rallying in the East and in Europe. So I guess China is not collapsing today.
http://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2015/sep/09/japanese-stock-mark...
http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/SHCOMP:IND
What is happening is not just the result of "the three largest forces on the planet", but to no small extent also the result of a fourth force, bad political decisions. Decisions that left Assad in power to barrel bomb and gas his people and to ignite the refugee problem.
So, "new thinking and hard choices", indeed, but first owning up to botched decisions and guilt.
Relax. As of 32 minutes ago (from my time of writing), the Shanghai Stock Exchange is up 2.3% today, with general rallying in the East and in Europe. So I guess China is not collapsing today.
http://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2015/sep/09/japanese-stock-mark...
http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/SHCOMP:IND
What is happening is not just the result of "the three largest forces on the planet", but to no small extent also the result of a fourth force, bad political decisions. Decisions that left Assad in power to barrel bomb and gas his people and to ignite the refugee problem.
So, "new thinking and hard choices", indeed, but first owning up to botched decisions and guilt.
4
Like Iraq? What makes you think you can just easily remove someone and then guarantee stability
1
Mr, Freidman, The countries that you describe as unnatural polygons were designed, in the first place by the Oountries of Order, those Western Democracies who, having conquered, then decided to divide the spoils amongst themselves. This is as true of the US as it is of other countries. Interestingly enough, the last Imperial Power which attempted to deal with ethnic groupings was the Ottoman Empire. And we have all heard of the demise of "the sick man of Europe".
As to the squandering of natural assets, perhaps one should ask where the resources originated that made the Western democracies so wealthy. There are, after all, not only the corrupt, but also the corrupters in this moral world.
The appropriate phrase that comes to mind is "Reaping the Whirlwind", or perhaps the "chickens are coming home to roost". The process started in the early 20th. century cannot be stopped. Nor can it be slowed down by contingency planning. The forces of Nature are self regulating, and personally I believe that we cannot even begin to imagine what might happen to any of us.
As to the squandering of natural assets, perhaps one should ask where the resources originated that made the Western democracies so wealthy. There are, after all, not only the corrupt, but also the corrupters in this moral world.
The appropriate phrase that comes to mind is "Reaping the Whirlwind", or perhaps the "chickens are coming home to roost". The process started in the early 20th. century cannot be stopped. Nor can it be slowed down by contingency planning. The forces of Nature are self regulating, and personally I believe that we cannot even begin to imagine what might happen to any of us.
11
Why do not we stop pretending that we know it all in the U.S.? How do you know that removing Assad would have led to a better outcome. Did not work in IraQ or Libya. While I understand the U.S. impulse to always try some solution, we should also learn from past experiences.
1
>
Moving all the unfortunate, dispossessed, displaced, birth lottery losers and lost souls to the west from current and future failed states is a priori so far beyond impractical on so many obvious levels and reasons it is insulting to human intelligence to list them.
"If we’re honest, we have only two ways to halt this refugee flood, and we don’t want to choose either: build a wall and isolate these regions of disorder, or occupy them with boots on the ground, crush the bad guys and build a new order based on real citizenship, a vast project that would take two generations." (TF)
We can modify the 2nd way by taking these young men and training them to be the major portion of the boots on the ground, rather, than come to countries that really are not looking for workers. Sooner or later ISIS will have to be put down. Sure a person is going to try and make themselves more comfortable, that's what humans generally do. Did Jefferson, Washington etc....get on a boat an leave the land of their oppressors? No they fought them.
The West can simply NOT take in all the world's dispossessed people without itself sinking into chaos. We are talking about many millions of people here, and a brain drain on those countries that creates a wasteland worse than now. It is that simple. The foreseen consequences are bad enough, imagine the unforeseen ones.
"The world is a comedy for those who think, but a tragedy for those who feel."
Horace Walpole
Moving all the unfortunate, dispossessed, displaced, birth lottery losers and lost souls to the west from current and future failed states is a priori so far beyond impractical on so many obvious levels and reasons it is insulting to human intelligence to list them.
"If we’re honest, we have only two ways to halt this refugee flood, and we don’t want to choose either: build a wall and isolate these regions of disorder, or occupy them with boots on the ground, crush the bad guys and build a new order based on real citizenship, a vast project that would take two generations." (TF)
We can modify the 2nd way by taking these young men and training them to be the major portion of the boots on the ground, rather, than come to countries that really are not looking for workers. Sooner or later ISIS will have to be put down. Sure a person is going to try and make themselves more comfortable, that's what humans generally do. Did Jefferson, Washington etc....get on a boat an leave the land of their oppressors? No they fought them.
The West can simply NOT take in all the world's dispossessed people without itself sinking into chaos. We are talking about many millions of people here, and a brain drain on those countries that creates a wasteland worse than now. It is that simple. The foreseen consequences are bad enough, imagine the unforeseen ones.
"The world is a comedy for those who think, but a tragedy for those who feel."
Horace Walpole
105
>
I'd also add that TF's 2 way is far better than the path we are currently headed down.
I'd also add that TF's 2 way is far better than the path we are currently headed down.
So, what we need is more colonialism?
"The West can simply NOT take in all the world's dispossessed people without itself sinking into chaos."
There you go! We could always stop creating chaos! The United States of America could stop droning, abandon the Bush Revolution to spread Democracy by regime change, and finally shelve Shock and Awe.
Oh! Shock and Awe works all right! Four and a half million Iraqis have panicked and run like heck from democracy, and our ambitions for a new head of state in Syria have set the rest in motion...straight to Europe come hell or high water.
We did this to the Middle East. We turned it into a charnel house. Yes we did! We were wrong, but now we are responsible. Colin Powell tried to tell em!
There you go! We could always stop creating chaos! The United States of America could stop droning, abandon the Bush Revolution to spread Democracy by regime change, and finally shelve Shock and Awe.
Oh! Shock and Awe works all right! Four and a half million Iraqis have panicked and run like heck from democracy, and our ambitions for a new head of state in Syria have set the rest in motion...straight to Europe come hell or high water.
We did this to the Middle East. We turned it into a charnel house. Yes we did! We were wrong, but now we are responsible. Colin Powell tried to tell em!
2
The colonial boundaries drawn in the early 20th century in the Middle East ignored cultural fault lines. The societies of disorder all contain significant cultural schisms. All those who negotiate the inevitable political agreements, which are the only solution to the chaos that rules the Middle East, should keep in mind the warning from William Faulkner, " The past is not dead. It's not even past."
37
"The colonial boundaries drawn in the early 20th century in the Middle East ignored cultural fault lines."
The ME was in a perpetual war with itself since forever. Friends today, enemies tomorrow. The Barbary pirates were pirates and the tribes of Arabia warred with each other long before Sykes Picot. The Ottoman Empire (won by the sword) encompassed the entire mideast and its Byzantine corruption predate French-English colonialism. The tribes were always at war; the Shia-Sunni schism and wars date to the 600s. Egypt has been Egypt (albeit rarely at peace) for 4000 years. The rest of the Mideast has never, ever been a sea of tranquility or not in civil war.
Blaming European colonialism is PC ignorance.
The entire area was fault line
The ME was in a perpetual war with itself since forever. Friends today, enemies tomorrow. The Barbary pirates were pirates and the tribes of Arabia warred with each other long before Sykes Picot. The Ottoman Empire (won by the sword) encompassed the entire mideast and its Byzantine corruption predate French-English colonialism. The tribes were always at war; the Shia-Sunni schism and wars date to the 600s. Egypt has been Egypt (albeit rarely at peace) for 4000 years. The rest of the Mideast has never, ever been a sea of tranquility or not in civil war.
Blaming European colonialism is PC ignorance.
The entire area was fault line
1
Ed, I'm glad you agree, the whole area was a cultural fault line, but the specifics were different. It was no monolith. Sunni-Shia, Turk- Bedouin, Arab-Turk. You should check out Kenya, South Africa, and Zimbabwe, where other fault lines led to political problems because of Colonial boundaries.
Reasons why so many countries are failing have little to do with mother nature or microchips. A high wind on a healthy tree does no damage; the same wind on a rotten one fells it. The problem is that so many trees are rotten.
You say "bad leaders"; I say: unhealthy/unready cultures which of course choose bad leaders.
Of course, PC prevents the west from saying so openly. After WW2 China was a mess, Europe (east and west) was a mess, Japan, the Mideast, Africa and more were too. Look now. Some still are, some are not. It is easy to blame "colonialism" but in many cases that was the result of a mess, not the cause. Look at China vs India vs Pakistan.
As long as you look only for PC reasons, you will get wrong answers. When you look for reasons, whatever they may be, you will get answers that can be helpful. The only reason that 60 million Egyptians are not trying to flood Europe along with the Syrians, Iraqia and Pakistanis is because Sisi took back a failed, "politically correct" experiment in "democracy".
Elections are not the same as democracy. Elections are essential to democracy but are not in and of themselves democracy. You need a educated, informed, responsible electorate and elections to have democracy. Instead, the US went about spouting "elections" & women's lib to a country completely unprepared for either. The country needs schools, medical care, jobs. It is not ready for elections. "Let's vote a Mercedes for every citizen". Great.
Democracy in action.
You say "bad leaders"; I say: unhealthy/unready cultures which of course choose bad leaders.
Of course, PC prevents the west from saying so openly. After WW2 China was a mess, Europe (east and west) was a mess, Japan, the Mideast, Africa and more were too. Look now. Some still are, some are not. It is easy to blame "colonialism" but in many cases that was the result of a mess, not the cause. Look at China vs India vs Pakistan.
As long as you look only for PC reasons, you will get wrong answers. When you look for reasons, whatever they may be, you will get answers that can be helpful. The only reason that 60 million Egyptians are not trying to flood Europe along with the Syrians, Iraqia and Pakistanis is because Sisi took back a failed, "politically correct" experiment in "democracy".
Elections are not the same as democracy. Elections are essential to democracy but are not in and of themselves democracy. You need a educated, informed, responsible electorate and elections to have democracy. Instead, the US went about spouting "elections" & women's lib to a country completely unprepared for either. The country needs schools, medical care, jobs. It is not ready for elections. "Let's vote a Mercedes for every citizen". Great.
Democracy in action.
69
Elections and women's lib? Get over it! These countries in disarray put down women harshly! We need to pray that the women of the middle east take over (which is unlikely, I know, but the men in charge of the world have down a terrible job. Woman power! Maybe we should try that for a century or two. Bet it works. Oh yeah. We need a bit more, but no one is providing schools, medical care and jobs--we are barely doing that here for many of our people. Woman power! Save the world. (maybe)
2
The war is Syria started when the lack of water from a severe drought forced farmers off there lands and into cities. The sect of those migrating to the cities did not sit well with the residents. Mother nature has a lot to do with the tensions in the Middle East. Dwindling water will lead to more conflict (no matter the labeling of the groups doing the fighting) and migrations in the years to come, sadly so.
3
Glen, the causes of the Syrian War are rather well documented & have absolutely nothing to do with drought or anything you said.
I'd link a supporting source or two if it weren't such an easy topic to research yourself on the web.
I'd link a supporting source or two if it weren't such an easy topic to research yourself on the web.
"We have a special obligation to Libyan and Iraqi refugees. But.."
But? Typical Friedman.
But? Typical Friedman.
10
Perhaps. That means helping them get their home in order - it does NOT mean letting 10 million Libyans and Iraqis into the US.
3
This time map on what is to come
Plus a poisoned climate to some
Is lurid and rash
Just pure balderdash
Although these are thoughts one should plumb.
But what is to come is now here
And stirs up xenophobic fear,
The climate denial
Is way beyond vile,
Rabble rousing is into high gear.
Obama in controversy
And Sanders are two who can see,
The Koch boys et al
Are just hommes fatale,
While quick action now is so key!
Plus a poisoned climate to some
Is lurid and rash
Just pure balderdash
Although these are thoughts one should plumb.
But what is to come is now here
And stirs up xenophobic fear,
The climate denial
Is way beyond vile,
Rabble rousing is into high gear.
Obama in controversy
And Sanders are two who can see,
The Koch boys et al
Are just hommes fatale,
While quick action now is so key!
45
That Party of Emails and Walls
Is what this old viewer appalls,
Just shed your apparel
Climb into a barrel
And go over Niagara Falls.
Is what this old viewer appalls,
Just shed your apparel
Climb into a barrel
And go over Niagara Falls.
62
Larry - the refugees can come over to your place in your climate controlled homes with George Soros et al ..
6
"And fo over Niagara Falls" Best suggestion ever.
2
"The market, Mother Nature and Moore’s law are just revving their engines".
We haven't seen anything yet.
There are 10 million Middle Eastern youth coming of agein the next decade with minimal prospects for employment.
Global food production is likely to fall again with the next regional drought, caising a repeat of unrest in Pakistan, China, Russia, Egypt and other populous countries.
18 million Bangladeshi people and other climate refugees fleeing rising sea level.
Troubles ahead are as bad or worse than today's.
We haven't seen anything yet.
There are 10 million Middle Eastern youth coming of agein the next decade with minimal prospects for employment.
Global food production is likely to fall again with the next regional drought, caising a repeat of unrest in Pakistan, China, Russia, Egypt and other populous countries.
18 million Bangladeshi people and other climate refugees fleeing rising sea level.
Troubles ahead are as bad or worse than today's.
236
The people of the EU (and, BTW, the US) simply want their political leadership to fulfill the prime responsibility of government, which is to maintain the sovereignty and security of the nation. And yet, such is the state of political degeneracy in the EU and the US, that in both cases this is the first responsibility they've abandoned.
It's hard to understand why this is so, but there it is, and it is feeding a mounting frustration in the populace. Perhaps if all refugee camps were placed in A-list watering holes, like Martha's Vineyard or Davos, the political elites would develop a deeper appreciation for the anxiety felt by ordinary citizens left to navigate the societal chaos bequeathed to them by their political overlords.
Finally, a Germany that imports 800,000 third world refugees a year will soon enough no longer be German. Maybe Merkel should ask the German people how they feel about this.