I find it interesting that there is not one reference to any Israeli or Jew defending the actions of the Israeli murder suspects you discuss. Yet your article wrongly suggests that there is support for this despicable act among Israelis particularly so-called settlers. The fact is that this murder was widely condemned. Of course reporting that would detract from the theme of the article.
24
Presumed guilt, without any suspects or evidence, is suddenly transformed into a guilty verdict, and the judge is calling for a hanging, or better yet, a lynching of an entire group of people. What better way to fan the flames of anti-Israel screed (though that isn't necessarily what the author believes herself, but she's got a book to sell!) than for a fellow Jewess to preside at the "trial." Ms. Hirschhorn, please tell me, in your own words, how did the assumed Jewish terrorists (and that is still the working presumption) manage to sneak in unnoticed into the middle of a dense, sizable town, do what they did, scrawl on the walls, and run away without being seized, or even actually seen?
13
The problem Yael writes about is real, but Israelis do regularly condemn this kind of violence. There simply is no comparison between these acts, which represent the will of a tiny, tiny minority in Israel, and the way they are regarded by the Israeli mainstream, and terrorism within the Palestinian community, which is mainstream, and is not only supported by most Palestinians, but by large minorities, and sometimes majorities, of the populations of other Middle Eastern countries.
19
For three decades, many of us have spoken out about the stubborn refusal of Israel, whose survival America rightly defends, to do justice for the Palestinians on the West Bank. The leaders of Israel have not budged, and in recent years under the Netanyahu regime, the stonewalling has hardened and the persecution of the Palestinians has become even more aggressive.
To learn the depths to which Israel has sunk in allowing Israeli terrorism against Palestinians and, worse, to learn the extent to which American Jews are traveling to Israel to commit murder, is sickening. Shame on all of us for allowing these crimes to continue.
Sarah Yael Hirschhorn is to be thanked and praised for her courage. The New York Times, which has not always applied the same standards for moral conduct on Israel as it does with other countries, including the United States, is also to be thanked for publishing this story. We can only hope that Ms. Hirschhorn stays safe from physical retaliation by the Israelis and that America finally wakes up.
To learn the depths to which Israel has sunk in allowing Israeli terrorism against Palestinians and, worse, to learn the extent to which American Jews are traveling to Israel to commit murder, is sickening. Shame on all of us for allowing these crimes to continue.
Sarah Yael Hirschhorn is to be thanked and praised for her courage. The New York Times, which has not always applied the same standards for moral conduct on Israel as it does with other countries, including the United States, is also to be thanked for publishing this story. We can only hope that Ms. Hirschhorn stays safe from physical retaliation by the Israelis and that America finally wakes up.
36
Ms Hirschhorn is forgetting the deliberate mass terrorism Israel's founders employed to get rid of its non-Jewish population and create an exclusive Jewish state, when she says Goldstein committed the worst terror Israelis and Palestinians had ever seen. The state was founded on terrorism and its official state-sponsored terrorism hasn't stopped since its founding. This incident may be unofficial, but it's every bit state-sponsored in that Israel has a long-standing practice of helping the terrorists in the occupied territories get established, protecting them and looking the other way when they commit less heinous acts of terrorism.
Ms Hirschhorn may be right that the settlers are perverting the language when they claim victimization in this conflict as well as liberal values, but that too, ignores Israel's founding values Israel that exclude its indigenous people from equal rights, indeed, Israel bans most the right to live in their land of origin, and many from the right to life as it permits killing (only of Palestinians) without even the cover of one of its biased trials.
Ms Hirschhorn may be right that the settlers are perverting the language when they claim victimization in this conflict as well as liberal values, but that too, ignores Israel's founding values Israel that exclude its indigenous people from equal rights, indeed, Israel bans most the right to live in their land of origin, and many from the right to life as it permits killing (only of Palestinians) without even the cover of one of its biased trials.
26
Everything that has happened since the formation of Israel, in Israel, in the US, could have been and was predicted, by sec of state George Marshall. This will cause us problems for years to come, he said.
Wasn't that Marshall was such a visionary -- he was, but not in this case. It was all so bloody obvious.
Unfortunately, his boss, the-buck-stops-here Truman, said show me the money. And the Zionists did.
Wasn't that Marshall was such a visionary -- he was, but not in this case. It was all so bloody obvious.
Unfortunately, his boss, the-buck-stops-here Truman, said show me the money. And the Zionists did.
15
Strange, USA today had a a very sympathetic piece about these American settlers in occupied territory, although they never used the word "occupy."
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/09/03/israel-west-bank-ame...
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/09/03/israel-west-bank-ame...
9
This needs to be discussed and confronted. American Jews are the source of some of the worst types of Israeli extremists. Politics in the United States are so complex for these Orthodox Jews -- Jews are a minority group who needs a country committed to equality and minority rights. Israel is the place where you can let all of that go and just be an out and out fascist patriot.
The American modern Orthodox community is completely, openly and proudly in bed with the settlements and less openly but no less proudly committed to a clear vision in which Israel has all of the land and none of the people, at least not as citizens of a democratic country. When you confront them about demanding the same rights at home that they would deny to Palestinians, they explain that Israel is not a country like America.
These Jews are educated, intelligent, well-spoken. They send their children to the West Bank to study and live and come back to the States to work and make money as needed. The American Jewish community and indeed the American government inadvertently funds and supports them in a variety of ways.
Maybe when this group starts killing our friends and family in Israel, rather than Palestinian toddlers, we will wake up and realize that we have been ignoring them for far too long.
The American modern Orthodox community is completely, openly and proudly in bed with the settlements and less openly but no less proudly committed to a clear vision in which Israel has all of the land and none of the people, at least not as citizens of a democratic country. When you confront them about demanding the same rights at home that they would deny to Palestinians, they explain that Israel is not a country like America.
These Jews are educated, intelligent, well-spoken. They send their children to the West Bank to study and live and come back to the States to work and make money as needed. The American Jewish community and indeed the American government inadvertently funds and supports them in a variety of ways.
Maybe when this group starts killing our friends and family in Israel, rather than Palestinian toddlers, we will wake up and realize that we have been ignoring them for far too long.
28
Another one sided bash of the State of Israel . These are all isolated incidents of individual Jews. The Israeli government as well as a large majority of Jewish leaders condemn these acts unlike Palestinian government and leaders. Where is the outcry on the attacks on the 5 yeshiva youths who were attacked in Hebron? http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/04/world/middleeast/west-bank-hebron-pale....
As for the tragic event in Duma. There have been 4 fires this past year a home owned by the Dawabashe family in Duma. Israeli site 0404 has documented that the fire last night that damaged a home owned by the Dawabashe family in Duma was the fourth one this year.
Besides the one last month that is being blamed on "settlers" based on nonsensical Hebrew graffiti, there was another fire on February 26. There was also a car that caught on fire on June 19 belonging to a member of the same family.
What a coincidence!
Also, I have not seen any evidence that the fire this morning was an electrical fire - just various people have made that assumption but as far as I can tell no one actually examined the damage and then came to that conclusion yet. http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2015/08/coinicidence-alert-this-was-fou...
As for the tragic event in Duma. There have been 4 fires this past year a home owned by the Dawabashe family in Duma. Israeli site 0404 has documented that the fire last night that damaged a home owned by the Dawabashe family in Duma was the fourth one this year.
Besides the one last month that is being blamed on "settlers" based on nonsensical Hebrew graffiti, there was another fire on February 26. There was also a car that caught on fire on June 19 belonging to a member of the same family.
What a coincidence!
Also, I have not seen any evidence that the fire this morning was an electrical fire - just various people have made that assumption but as far as I can tell no one actually examined the damage and then came to that conclusion yet. http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2015/08/coinicidence-alert-this-was-fou...
11
So the theory here's what--that the dead kid set the fires?
I'm being sarcastic, of course, but if these sorts of bizarre rationalizations and alibis and denials show anything, it's that right-wing fanaticism is always well-defended.
I'm being sarcastic, of course, but if these sorts of bizarre rationalizations and alibis and denials show anything, it's that right-wing fanaticism is always well-defended.
29
A Pandora's Box opened to hurl inflammatory accusations against not just Israeli Jews, but all Jews. Of course American Jews comprise the majority of Jews living outside Israel, and many of us (and European Jews) do support Israel's right to exist, and for a minority of Jews to reside in areas that will become Palestine, just as Palestinians currently comprise a 20% minority of Israeli citizens. As to who committed this horrible crime, we cannot assume anything. Said one military correspondent, interviewed in an orthodox magazine, the working assumption is a Jewish extremist, and there is a tiny bunch of such teens and young adults who are angry and could conceivably do such a thing. But, the house targeted was in the middle of a large Arab town; simply running away without interference or witnesses is almost impossible to comprehend. To assume such guilt without anybody being apprehended, and then to stoke the flames of blame on all American Jews who are pro-Israel, is pure venom. Disgusting. It results in all these miserable anti-Israel remarks below. Thanks for the hanging jury.
11
i hadn't known that opposing violence and theft based on religious fanaticism was "anti-Israel."
39
Israeli terrorism and terrorists were born in ancient Ur, Sumer-modern Iraq- when Abram claimed that his god commanded him to lead his people in an invasion and occupation of the lands of other ethnic sectarian people. In that that god's name killing, wounding and displacing the foreign men, women and children. See Deuteronomy 20:10-17. Thus was born the ethnic sectarian crusade and the jihad.
Emulating the model of Abraham created the Zionist Haganah, Palmach, Irgun Zvai Leumi, Stern Gang and LEHI. And they begat the Israel Defense Force. The Palestinian Liberation Organization, Islamic Jihad, Hamas, Muslim Brotherhood, ISIS/ISIL, al Qaeda, al Nusra and Hezbollah all have great role models to follow to building their own preferred ethnic sectarian state.
Emulating the model of Abraham created the Zionist Haganah, Palmach, Irgun Zvai Leumi, Stern Gang and LEHI. And they begat the Israel Defense Force. The Palestinian Liberation Organization, Islamic Jihad, Hamas, Muslim Brotherhood, ISIS/ISIL, al Qaeda, al Nusra and Hezbollah all have great role models to follow to building their own preferred ethnic sectarian state.
20
Right. The only reason Hamas et al are crazy and violent and fanatical is that The Jews set a bad example.
14
Blame the Bible? The other two monotheistic religions are based on that "ethnic cleansing" holy book. What is your point? If the Bible is real, and Jewish, then pay attention to whom it belongs, from time immemorial. If you deny the authenticity, or G-d given authority, from whence come any legitimate claims of any other religion? Islam makes its claims on Israeli land from religious beliefs. Are those more sacred? If you want secular sources, please check out the Balfour declaration, the San Remo Conference, and the League of Nations article 22, plus the UN Charter, article 80.
6
she writes "RATHER than quoting the Bible or rhapsodizing about a messianic vision, they tend to describe their activities in the language of American values and idealism — as an opportunity to defend human rights and live in the “whole land of Israel” — often over a cup of Starbucks coffee in their boxy aluminum prefab houses or in the mansions of settlement suburbia." Is she referring to American Jews or Israeli Jews? Has she even visited this area she describes? There is no Starbucks in Israel! Unbelievable!
9
Pssst...Starbucks sells bags of coffee. And there are these wossname, "mail order," services.
10
There is nothing liberal-minded about the current state of Israel or these extremist settlers. They are racist to the core and their violent actions should be seen as the crimes of a hate group. The rhetoric of Jews being the victims in Israel/Palestine is wearing quickly thin in the face of all the evidence to the contrary.
31
This Op Ed eloquently describes the concept of "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter". We need to understand and, without hesitation, condemn and search any who do these things. The "Why" doesn't matter, it's the "What" that counts. Finally, is this proof positive that our collective morality is driven simply by the phrase "the ends justify the means". I truly hope not.
35
It's a shame that all the brainwashed Americans who think the only solution to the Middle East quagmire is to kill more Arabs won't read this Hirschhorn column very slowly. Twice.
A Palestinian taxi driver in Paris, dislodged from his home by Israeli settlements, explained Bin Laden this way:
"Bin Laden is Israel and US made."
The Palestinian fighters who die like flies trying to hit back at Israel were not born that way, but are a reaction to an Israeli government that doesn't treat them like equals -- or consider them human.
Similarly, these violent Israelis were not born that way but are reactions to what has been inculcated in their heads since childhood about the Holocaust.
How to break out of this downward spiral?
It's only tough to do because leaders and voters (les mouton) lack the imagination and courage to try another cheek. But one of these days, I an Israeli Gorbachev is going to look around and think: "This is only getting worse. There has to be a better way."
And this Gorbachevstein will prepare for this announcement:
"Israel will withdraw to its 1967 borders, in exchange for commitments to peace by all its neighbors and with an agreement from the United States that all citizens of Israel can have free passage to our other homeland in America."
Shazam!
Within a month, we would be more than halfway to what was thought unattainable -- Peace in the Middle East. And after that, solving climate change and cancer would be easy.
A Palestinian taxi driver in Paris, dislodged from his home by Israeli settlements, explained Bin Laden this way:
"Bin Laden is Israel and US made."
The Palestinian fighters who die like flies trying to hit back at Israel were not born that way, but are a reaction to an Israeli government that doesn't treat them like equals -- or consider them human.
Similarly, these violent Israelis were not born that way but are reactions to what has been inculcated in their heads since childhood about the Holocaust.
How to break out of this downward spiral?
It's only tough to do because leaders and voters (les mouton) lack the imagination and courage to try another cheek. But one of these days, I an Israeli Gorbachev is going to look around and think: "This is only getting worse. There has to be a better way."
And this Gorbachevstein will prepare for this announcement:
"Israel will withdraw to its 1967 borders, in exchange for commitments to peace by all its neighbors and with an agreement from the United States that all citizens of Israel can have free passage to our other homeland in America."
Shazam!
Within a month, we would be more than halfway to what was thought unattainable -- Peace in the Middle East. And after that, solving climate change and cancer would be easy.
16
One does not have to look far for Jewish extremism in Israel. Just print the names of the military leaders of the IDF who took part in last summer's "mowing of the lawn". Truly, terrorists may be described as miscreants who audaciously strike hospitals, orphanages, civilian homes, ambulances, and so on with the hell fire of sophisticated U.S. made and supplied missiles and bombs. Study the rubble we call Gaza. The persons responsible for this rubble are genuine terrorists. Don't you dare blame Hamas! Hamas is a creation of Israeli hegemony. Hamas is a group of desperate, poorly armed, caged rebels. Treat Palestinians fairly and there will be no Hamas.
25
US JEWS settling in Israel are a very different bunch these day from when I was born in 1948, at the time of the birth of the nation. Back then, they were Halutzim, or "pioneers" in what was more of a back-to-the-soil movement on Kibbutzim. Now many of the American settlers are LOINs (liberals only in name). As a US Jew, I am saddened, angered and ashamed that allegedly violent Jewish American settlers in Israel are using manipulative rhetoric to parade their duplicity, manipulation and heinous acts as having anything to do with the democratic ideals upon which the US was founded. They and their families should be exposed for their hypocrisy and their criminal intent (when it can be proven beyond a doubt). Sadly, misfits from the US who become transplants in Israel will not blossom into model citizens automatically.
17
< More disturbingly, several of the alleged instigators, currently being detained indefinitely, are not native-born Israelis — they have American roots. >
So did one of the three teenagers who were kidnapped and killed by Palestinian Arabs a year ago, murders which lead to the death of a Palestinian Arab youth at the hands of Palestinian Jewish teens.
So did the 4 Jewish tourists from US who yesterday have lost their way in Hebron and were almost lynched by Palestinian Arab mob had it not been for a Palestinian Arab who sheltered the injured tourists in his home.
So did Adam Godham, the now dead Jew who converted to Islam and became a leader within the ranks of DAESH.
In the era when tens of thousands of people are dying every month, these completely meaningless statistics are testimony to Stalin's famous remark: "One death is a tragedy, many deaths is just statistics"
So did one of the three teenagers who were kidnapped and killed by Palestinian Arabs a year ago, murders which lead to the death of a Palestinian Arab youth at the hands of Palestinian Jewish teens.
So did the 4 Jewish tourists from US who yesterday have lost their way in Hebron and were almost lynched by Palestinian Arab mob had it not been for a Palestinian Arab who sheltered the injured tourists in his home.
So did Adam Godham, the now dead Jew who converted to Islam and became a leader within the ranks of DAESH.
In the era when tens of thousands of people are dying every month, these completely meaningless statistics are testimony to Stalin's famous remark: "One death is a tragedy, many deaths is just statistics"
10
Let's call these people what they are -- land thieves and colonizers. They have no idea of a shared humanity with the people whose land they have taken, and they claim a god-given right to "all the right of Israel," even though in many cases they have European ethnicity and roots. And we call the Arabs terrorists and militants!
Also let's point a finger back at ourselves -- it is conscious US and Israeli policy that supports such people and their aggressive, self-aggrandizing world-view. Theirs is a philosophy developed in the 19th century much before the Holocaust. It is a philosophy that rudely exploits historical tragedy to meet its goals.
Also let's point a finger back at ourselves -- it is conscious US and Israeli policy that supports such people and their aggressive, self-aggrandizing world-view. Theirs is a philosophy developed in the 19th century much before the Holocaust. It is a philosophy that rudely exploits historical tragedy to meet its goals.
26
Do you think we will see American Drones going after these American born terrorist?
CR
CR
10
We are all products of the environment we grow up and live in. Whether it starts in the halls and classrooms of the yeshivas in the United States, or in the streets of the settlements, this unspeakable behavior has no place in Jewish society. The settlers of the State of Israel named Meir and Rabin, at the time, were branded terrorists too, but they did not indiscriminately kill innocents. If these so called patriots want to fight for our homeland, let them go join the IDF or remain indefinitely where they belong - in jail.
14
Meir,Began=terror
8
very nice analysis, unfortunately it appears that no group has a monopoly on extremism.
3
Not one of these suspected terrorists was born in the US. Where did you get this headline?
3
From the actual planet we inhabit.
3
Not to diminish from the horror of some of these acts, however, that the actors were American is simply correlation without causation. What is highly correlated with an outcome is the ceaseless NYT focus on Israel. Why is that? Two reasons: First, it is because the best Middle East journalism assignment is in Israel, a highly civilized and urbane country that has a liberal democracy and the rule of law. As a journalist, you can slam Israel by day, and safely sip cocktails on Ben Yehudah street in Jerusalem at night while gazing at the "occupied territories". I would love to see more journalists spend time in other Middle East countries and write a little bit about the real insanity going on outside of Israel. Second, regardless of what is going on around the world, people love to pile on Israel and, yes, anti-Zionism is neo anti-Semitism despite all the group-think and protestations to the contrary (its been going on since well before 1967).
13
I'll agree to your proposition that ant-Zionism is "neo anti-Semitism" the day you agree that Zionism is "neo Exceptionalism and quasi racism."
And the insanity outside Israel has long roots in the history of colonial misdaventures in the middle east, of which establishing a state based on Zionist principles is a prime example.
And the insanity outside Israel has long roots in the history of colonial misdaventures in the middle east, of which establishing a state based on Zionist principles is a prime example.
5
Religious zealotry makes terrorists of Jews from the USA (as well as native-born Israelis) and Arabs/Muslims mourning their Nakba within the State of Israel. Orthodox settlers in Arab territories are pushing the status quo into untenable diections. Orthodox Jews who massacre Arabs and fellow Jews in the name of religious purity, according to their own warped misinterpretation of Talmud, are criminals. Muslims and Arabs who do not recognize the State Of Israel are denying reality. The word "Israel" doesn't appear on maps in Arab lands; the word "Palestine" occupies the place of Israel in books taught to Muslim children. A young Orthodox Jew, Yigal Amir, assassinated Yitzhak Rabin in 1994 because Rabin explained the Oslo Peace Accords at the Knesset to Israel and the Palestinians living in Israel. The split between left and right and religious zealotry and secularity in Israel is now an uncrossable crevasse. A similar situation in the US - between the liberal left and the extremist right is driving our country towards a catastrophic train wreck.
Compromise is a chimera in both our democracies.
Compromise is a chimera in both our democracies.
3
I once commented to a friend that fundamentalists of all stripes are dangerous and she said, "at least Jewish ones don't kill people." My answer was, "that remains to be seen."
When you're sure you have the revealed truth and a deity on your side, nothing is out of the question for any group.
When you're sure you have the revealed truth and a deity on your side, nothing is out of the question for any group.
17
It doesn't "remain to be seen" and never was. How do you think European Jews pushed the natives out in the first place? It was with violence and the threat of violence. Any people that thinks they have God-given rights and privileges placing them above others have already dehumanized others. The Jews are certainly not unique in this regard. Unfortunately, it is all too common.
9
The American cultural elements that contribute to these American terrorists are evident here, but what is not covered in the article is the potential role played by the Israel and the Israeli lobby in fertilizing the development of US-grown terrorists. Israel goes to great lengths in the US to perpetuate the image of Israel as a victim that is under siege from all sides, in order to maintain US popular and economic support. These US terrorists are, in part, a byproduct of this misinformation. While Israel may lament the American-born terrorist, it gladly welcomes the role of the US in the UN in providing cover for it's own "excesses" in Lebanon, Gaza, etc.
15
Glancing through the comments to the article I am, time and again, amazed by commenters' comparing between Israeli and Palestinian terrorists. Israel is a sovereign country, with a large army, intelligence service and police force. For the past 48 years these bodies have been controlling all aspects of the life of Palestinians in the occupied territories. The state has no need for, and should fight against, bodies that are involved with further suppression of the Palestinian population.
Furthermore, some may label Palestinian terrorists freedom fighters. Can this label ever be attached to Israeli vigilantes?!
Furthermore, some may label Palestinian terrorists freedom fighters. Can this label ever be attached to Israeli vigilantes?!
11
For every Jew that commits an act of violence there are ten thousand acts of violence committed by Muslims. So stop trying to pretend the two are equivalent. They most certainly aren't.
8
So by these numbers Jews should get a pass. Sounds fair.
4
Over 2,000 Palestinians were killed last summer in Israel assault on Gaza. Fewer than 50 Israelis were killed. I would agree that the violence enacted is certainly lopsided.
10
Did he say that they should get a pass? Stop creating straw men.
1
It constantly amazes me how the NY Times, for decades, has been able to find Jews who are more than happy to write negatively about Israel. These people not only seem to have no sense of shame but perhaps earn their way into the best wine and cheese parties on the Upper West Side by being such 'open-minded" Jews. The truth is that Israel has FEWER terrorists than most countries, certainly fewer than NYC much less the whole US.
8
Why should these radical settlers pull back when their current PM had been giving them dog whistles all along that justify their extreme actions. Settlement building has gone on without abatement. Meanwhile in the U.S. AIPAC ensures that any negative comments about such activities are muted. Politicians comply, liberal media turn their heads, and the American public is largely uniformed about the situation. The final justification was provided by Netanyahu during the election when he assured these extremists that their actions would be rewarded by his open admission to be against a two state solution.
10
Ms. Hirschhorn makes a painful but necessary point. We are no longer living in the era of the romanticism of the kibbutzim. Instead, we are dealing with the Jewish version of al-Qaeda. This behavior is no more representative of Judaism than al-Qaeda or ISIS is of Islam. Yes, it is on a much smaller scale, and they are not looking to convert people. However, what they are doing is terrorism. Israel does have a right to defend itself, and more importantly, a right to safe and secure borders. When AIPAC sends its solicitations to my elderly mother, we put them right into the shredder. I hope that others will do the same. Furthermore, I believe that it is time for the US Congress to have some chutzpah and tell Netanyahu that we will reduce our aid to Israel by every dollar that it spends on settlements. Let it be his choice: defense or settlements.
13
"American Jews at home and abroad can no longer condone these blind spots and damning silences when it comes to Jewish extremism in Israel."
What silence is Ms. Hirschhorn talking about? I have seen numerous articles and heard statements from many Jews - rabbis and laymen alike - who have condemned the recent attacks against Arabs. Even the NY Times has published them.
Why are so many commentators here willing to believe the worst things they hear about Israelis - both religious and secular?
What silence is Ms. Hirschhorn talking about? I have seen numerous articles and heard statements from many Jews - rabbis and laymen alike - who have condemned the recent attacks against Arabs. Even the NY Times has published them.
Why are so many commentators here willing to believe the worst things they hear about Israelis - both religious and secular?
7
I had more sympathy for the Palestinians before their whole-hearted celebrations of the downing of the Twin Towers the day after 9/11. Now I think it is a back and forth of I can do this because you did that that just makes me tired.
Displaced people should be treated as such but as has happened with most displaced people, they typically wind up someplace else.
Displaced people should be treated as such but as has happened with most displaced people, they typically wind up someplace else.
3
"I had more sympathy for the Palestinians before their whole-hearted celebrations of the downing of the Twin Towers the day after 9/11."
A sentiment which perfectly captures the broad-based inability of Americans to think for themselves.
Let's see... 2001... then Israel's theft and occupation of Palestinian lands was in only its 34th year. And all during that time, how many bombs, how many bullets, how much MONEY, how many UN Security Council vetoes, and on and on and on and on, had the US given to Israel so it could continue stealing and settling Palestinian land, continue murdering Palestinian youth who had the gall to throw rocks at Israeli tanks (described so generously, so unanimously, by the US media as being "killed in clashes" with the IDF) ... and then someone, ANYONE, brings down the twin towers, the financial symbol of the United States.
And you're surprised SOME Palestinians cheered.
Wow.
A sentiment which perfectly captures the broad-based inability of Americans to think for themselves.
Let's see... 2001... then Israel's theft and occupation of Palestinian lands was in only its 34th year. And all during that time, how many bombs, how many bullets, how much MONEY, how many UN Security Council vetoes, and on and on and on and on, had the US given to Israel so it could continue stealing and settling Palestinian land, continue murdering Palestinian youth who had the gall to throw rocks at Israeli tanks (described so generously, so unanimously, by the US media as being "killed in clashes" with the IDF) ... and then someone, ANYONE, brings down the twin towers, the financial symbol of the United States.
And you're surprised SOME Palestinians cheered.
Wow.
4
Israel has morphed from a fledgling democracy to a theocracy with elections. Iran also has elections; does that make it a democracy?
North American support for Israel, once a manifestation of rooting for the underdog, now seems more like support for colonialism.
Look at the result of the "victory" of the Zealots in 1st century Judea.
North American support for Israel, once a manifestation of rooting for the underdog, now seems more like support for colonialism.
Look at the result of the "victory" of the Zealots in 1st century Judea.
10
Two-state solution? One-state solution?
Israel settled long ago on a "NO-state solution" for the Palestinians. They don't get their own state. They don't get equal rights in Israel. They just keep getting mistreated, year after year after year. And the world stands by and lets it happen.
And why should Israel change? They've got the US government watching their back. Why change?
Israel settled long ago on a "NO-state solution" for the Palestinians. They don't get their own state. They don't get equal rights in Israel. They just keep getting mistreated, year after year after year. And the world stands by and lets it happen.
And why should Israel change? They've got the US government watching their back. Why change?
15
It' about time the media start to call out so-called Israeli"terrorists" as what they are: American -born ultra-Orthodox hoodlums who should be invited to take their killer fanaticism back to the U.S. and leave the Israelis to their constant proccupation: protecting themselves from OUTSIDE terrorists!
5
Not one of these four are American born.
I agree with the author that Israeli settler terrorists must be rooted out, just as Palestinian terrorists must be. Terrorism is wrong, no matter who commits it.
It is also worth mentioning that the Israeli government has condemned and prosecutes Israeli terrorists. Although far more must be done by the Israeli government, the official Israeli response is preferable to official Palestinian support for Palestinian terrorists.
It is also worth mentioning that the Israeli government has condemned and prosecutes Israeli terrorists. Although far more must be done by the Israeli government, the official Israeli response is preferable to official Palestinian support for Palestinian terrorists.
7
By America's support for Israel and Netanyahu's settlement expansion America can now be classed as a country supporting and exporting terrorism. These American exports are killing and harassing the Christian and Muslim Palestinians every day and in every way. America has no moral authority to condemn Islamic terrorism when it as its own brand supported by the American taxpayer.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/israel/1.673358
http://www.haaretz.com/news/israel/1.673358
33
Mark's wife.
Wow! This is a very informative piece. Thank you.
Wow! This is a very informative piece. Thank you.
5
Gun culture is born in the U.S.A. and exported all over the world
7
Let's see:
When the Palestinian Arabs murder innocent Israeli children, there are huge celebrations by Arabs.
When Israeli, or US citizen, Jews murder innocent Arabs, they are thrown in prison by the Israeli government.
See if you can figure out how those two responses are different.
When the Palestinian Arabs murder innocent Israeli children, there are huge celebrations by Arabs.
When Israeli, or US citizen, Jews murder innocent Arabs, they are thrown in prison by the Israeli government.
See if you can figure out how those two responses are different.
8
Really? Huge celebrations? This myth is akin to the "New Black Panthers" myth being spread here in the U.S. to rile up the paranoid white voter base.
5
The difference is that one group of people is systematically broken down, oppressed, discriminated against, and has had its land stolen for generations. The other group of people is doing the breaking down, oppressing and stealing. See if you can figure out the difference.
3
Naylon: here is the proof of huge celebrations as well as photos of giving out candy when Israeli civilians are murdered by Palestinian terorists https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMOZvbYJMvU
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/11/palestinians-celebrate-hand-out-...
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/11/18/photos-palestinians-celebrate...
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/11/18/jerusalem-synagogue-attacks/
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/11/palestinians-celebrate-hand-out-...
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/11/18/photos-palestinians-celebrate...
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/11/18/jerusalem-synagogue-attacks/
4
Dear Dr. Hirschhorn,
I recently attended your talk at Limud in Jerusalem. At that time you presented a fascinating and i would emphasize complex and nuanced view of the settler movement. This editorial is far from that. More importantly, you make the unsubstantiated observation that the actions of these Jewish terrorists have not been condemned. As you well know many Rabbis in Israel condemnedthe action as well as many Rabbis from abroad. The President, Prime Minister and other official condemned the action, and you were here to hear those condemnations and to hear of the commitment to riding the society of such people. I dare say tat since you were in Israel, you have very little information about what was written in US papers following the incident.
This smacks of a publicity grab to sell your book.
However, I hope you read carefully the firestorm of comments you unleashed. I have. If this does not make you cringe, your politics and your concern for Jewish welfare is suspect. You have people talking of apartheid of the State never being created, of Jewish attempts top exterminate another people. I wondeer how comfortable you are with the support you have corralled.
Moreover, you stated that you would not let your politics enter into your objective study of the settler phenomenon. Given your current rant, my initial interest in your book has waned (I commented positively to you at the talk). You probably do not care because you decided to pull in others.
I recently attended your talk at Limud in Jerusalem. At that time you presented a fascinating and i would emphasize complex and nuanced view of the settler movement. This editorial is far from that. More importantly, you make the unsubstantiated observation that the actions of these Jewish terrorists have not been condemned. As you well know many Rabbis in Israel condemnedthe action as well as many Rabbis from abroad. The President, Prime Minister and other official condemned the action, and you were here to hear those condemnations and to hear of the commitment to riding the society of such people. I dare say tat since you were in Israel, you have very little information about what was written in US papers following the incident.
This smacks of a publicity grab to sell your book.
However, I hope you read carefully the firestorm of comments you unleashed. I have. If this does not make you cringe, your politics and your concern for Jewish welfare is suspect. You have people talking of apartheid of the State never being created, of Jewish attempts top exterminate another people. I wondeer how comfortable you are with the support you have corralled.
Moreover, you stated that you would not let your politics enter into your objective study of the settler phenomenon. Given your current rant, my initial interest in your book has waned (I commented positively to you at the talk). You probably do not care because you decided to pull in others.
16
c/o Seth:
"i would emphasize complex and nuanced view of the settler movement."
I'd like to know whether a nuanced and complex view of bank robbery is also current in Israel, and whether that form of theft may one day constitute a movement as well.
"i would emphasize complex and nuanced view of the settler movement."
I'd like to know whether a nuanced and complex view of bank robbery is also current in Israel, and whether that form of theft may one day constitute a movement as well.
3
Some statistics to keep in mind that provide the broader context of settler violence described in this excellent Op-Ed piece. Since 2000 to present, 133 Israeli children have been killed by Palestinians vs. 2061 Palestinian children killed by Israelis; 1198 Israelis killed vs. 9139 Palestinians killed; 11446 Israelis injured vs. 73158 Palestinians injured. Since 1967 to present, 0 Israeli homes have been demolished vs. 28000 Palestinian homes demolished. There are 261 Jewish only settlements or outposts on land confiscated from Palestinians vs. 0 Palestinian settlements. The violence on both sides should be condemned, especially when directed against civilians. Condemning one's own side is always harder; dehumanizing the other side and saying they deserve the violence is easier. The Op-Ed piece rightly states that condemning violence from our own groups, specifically the extremists on our side, is the morally right thing to do. Makes us better human beings and the world a better place.
22
Meir Kahane was an American rabble rouser who turned Baruch Goldsteiln into a mass murderer by his hateful rhetoric. He used it here against black citizens of Brooklyn and then took it to Israel where he regarded the Arabs as "vermin," which is what Hitler called us -- Jews as subhuman creatures. Being American born doesn't make you virtuous. You take whatever poison you carry with you to Israel and the Israelis, whether Jew or non-Jew, have to put up with it. The settlers there would probably be called "trailer trash" here. They are a stain on my religion and an embarrassment to me as an American Jew.
22
So the author brings up good points regarding America and the west being a recruiting ground for Israelis extremists....at least if your willing to ( as the author does) go to the second generation of these immigrants. What I don't understand is the hypocrisy of the comments on this article. The vast number of terrorist acts in the area are against the Israelis by extremists from its Arab neighbors. Rather then taking criminal actions agaisnt the perpetrators the governments there actually reward families whose men women and children are wiling to be human bombs against Israelis. For every American who is an extremist in Israel there are thousands that are not. Can this be said of the Americans that convert to Islam and emigrate to the Arab world? Yikes i think not... There are serious problems in the middle east and this is what the NYT finds amost pressing as an issue. I'm waiting for the follow up article on the response of the PLO/Hamas on its people who attack unarmed Israelis citizens....sadly in the past these articles have been apologist pieces condoning the actions....and so it goes.....
6
I admit I am shocked to see that the New York Times permitted the horrific attacks by settlers to be called what they are: terrorism.
18
Nobody can argue against the fact that Baruch Goldstein was Brooklyn born and bred, educated in Brooklyn, Manhattan and the Bronx. As for the rest mentioned here, the evidence seems to be a little shaky. Second generation, or third generation, not born in the US (or Anglos, second generation Australian lumped together). American roots? If you told my Israeli born children that they are American, they would would laugh. For that matter, if you told me growing up in the US that I was Latvian, Ukrainian or Polish, based on my grandparents, I would have found that hilarious.
When push comes to shove, nobody wants to mention that Yigal Amir, Yitzchak Rabin's assassin was of Yemenite extraction, and a resident of the coastal city of Herzaliya. No US connection, not even a settler but a resident of what has become gentrified yuppiedom.
Dr. Hirschhorn's book is due to appear soon. For the moment she is on the popular lecture-writing circuit, undoubtedly seeking to bolster future sales. One would hope that her academic work would have something more of solid evidence which she refrains from publishing in her popular publications.
She has studied Efrat, for instance, in Gush Etzion, heavy on Anglos of all types, heavy on Anglo doctors, lawyers, scientists and business men and woman and light on extremists. How does that work for Dr. Hirschhorn?
Things are much more complex than what Dr. Hirschhorn has publicized in her popular work.
When push comes to shove, nobody wants to mention that Yigal Amir, Yitzchak Rabin's assassin was of Yemenite extraction, and a resident of the coastal city of Herzaliya. No US connection, not even a settler but a resident of what has become gentrified yuppiedom.
Dr. Hirschhorn's book is due to appear soon. For the moment she is on the popular lecture-writing circuit, undoubtedly seeking to bolster future sales. One would hope that her academic work would have something more of solid evidence which she refrains from publishing in her popular publications.
She has studied Efrat, for instance, in Gush Etzion, heavy on Anglos of all types, heavy on Anglo doctors, lawyers, scientists and business men and woman and light on extremists. How does that work for Dr. Hirschhorn?
Things are much more complex than what Dr. Hirschhorn has publicized in her popular work.
12
This is so embarrassing. The FBI should do a sweep through Skokie and Williamsburg. It is just out of hand and it makes Jews look terrible. I can't imagine any wanting to support this terrorism and yet our taxes and the voting record speaks for itself. AIPAC is synonomous with lying cheating and manipulating now. WHich doesn't bring back pleasant memories.
17
It's refreshing to see an article in these pages that reports the ugly reality of the Zionist enterprise in the middle east.
The United States has created a monster in its historical support for Israel that has only become more hideous under Bibi Netanyahu. Its decrepit Zionist goal to establish a permanent nation for Jews, to impose a Euro-centric culture and demographic on it, and to be the sole, unregulated nuclear superpower in the region diverge ever more sharply from America's interests. Its ongoing demand for military, economic, diplomatic, and political support from the United States is the absolute height of arrogance and disrespect.
It is well beyond time for America to stop its slavish sponsorship of Israel, and to join the world in condemning its forcible colonialist expansion, injustice, and rogue nuclear weapons activities.
The United States has created a monster in its historical support for Israel that has only become more hideous under Bibi Netanyahu. Its decrepit Zionist goal to establish a permanent nation for Jews, to impose a Euro-centric culture and demographic on it, and to be the sole, unregulated nuclear superpower in the region diverge ever more sharply from America's interests. Its ongoing demand for military, economic, diplomatic, and political support from the United States is the absolute height of arrogance and disrespect.
It is well beyond time for America to stop its slavish sponsorship of Israel, and to join the world in condemning its forcible colonialist expansion, injustice, and rogue nuclear weapons activities.
21
Why do so few peaceful Jews ever speak out against those who have turned Judaism into the most violent extremist movement since the one that killed 6 million of us?
12
Eh.
The entire country was in an uproar, including the government.
Does that mean an entire country are considered a few peaceful Jews in your eyes?
Unlike many others, most Israelis and Jews are not ashamed of admitting there are some rotten apples, and they also take care of them (although not fast enough, but at least they are not hailed as heroes among the population, getting squares named after them...)
The entire country was in an uproar, including the government.
Does that mean an entire country are considered a few peaceful Jews in your eyes?
Unlike many others, most Israelis and Jews are not ashamed of admitting there are some rotten apples, and they also take care of them (although not fast enough, but at least they are not hailed as heroes among the population, getting squares named after them...)
2
Those who sit in silence either have reconciled the behavior because they believe they have a "right to the land", or they simply don't care. Those people apparently don't plan to move to Israel, pick a farm, oust a Palestinian family, & build a One religion, One race state. the tide is turning. In spite of Israel's repeated attempts to stop all social media from Palestinians from reaching America...Americans are seeing Israel for what it really is. A monster who needs to be removed & placed back only on the land allotted in 1948 when they became a state. Christians in America are beginning to realize that if they support Israel, they are basically giving up their own claim to Heaven by supporting those who think it's only for them..
2
"Judaism...the most violent extremist movement"? Heard of ISIS? Hamas? Hizballa? The Islamic Republic of Iran? Boko Haram? What planet are you living on?
3
Re "American Jews at home and abroad can no longer condone these blind spots and damning silences when it comes to Jewish extremism in Israel."
Again, the double standard: (1) On what basis do you conclude that Jews condone these acts? (2) And where are the Palestinians voices who condemn Palestinian acts of terrorism? Jews don't celebrate terror. Many Palestinians do. They name streets after terrorist "martyrs". Nothing like that occurs in Israel.
This article is part and parcel of the Times war against Jews and Israel.
Again, the double standard: (1) On what basis do you conclude that Jews condone these acts? (2) And where are the Palestinians voices who condemn Palestinian acts of terrorism? Jews don't celebrate terror. Many Palestinians do. They name streets after terrorist "martyrs". Nothing like that occurs in Israel.
This article is part and parcel of the Times war against Jews and Israel.
7
Well, plenty of Israelis make a hero out of Jonathan Pollard.
3
I am so happy this article is out. I have been planning to address this for long, sending letter to the President, suggesting that these criminals; terrorists, be recognized as such by US authoritys and dealt with in right manner. Enough with looking the other way, which is what Israel's government is doing. it shames us all. I have seen rich American parents, living in Israel, supporting their young CRAZED sons, running home for food and money and a shower before running back to the "Hills" (They are called The Hills boys). They are hated by sane Israelis and act in manners that do harm to all. See them as Blood Thirsty Americans, Criminals yielding guns, burning homes with their Arab occupants, destroying Arab crops, causing suffering. These terrorists cannot do things like that in America so they found a "Good cause" and hurry to a land that allows them to shoot and burn and murder with impunity.
I am an Israeli born Jew, my heart breaks with each incident.
I call for all Americans to voice their horrified views, ask our government to immediately recognize these people, whom I'm sure we have their names, as terrorists and act accordingly. Imprison them uppon arrival here, cut off their financial support and all other means we use for their kind. Please, save us from committing crimes against people and against chance for PEACE. Why does anyone allow these Foreigners, even if they are Jewish, to come to the holy land with hate, guns and fire?
I am an Israeli born Jew, my heart breaks with each incident.
I call for all Americans to voice their horrified views, ask our government to immediately recognize these people, whom I'm sure we have their names, as terrorists and act accordingly. Imprison them uppon arrival here, cut off their financial support and all other means we use for their kind. Please, save us from committing crimes against people and against chance for PEACE. Why does anyone allow these Foreigners, even if they are Jewish, to come to the holy land with hate, guns and fire?
18
Wherever they go, Americans are entitled and violent. I have always known these crazy immigrants are the most strident and unwilling to respect the rights of others.
It is not Jewish. And it is certainly not Israeli - a small people who have always sought a place in the world.
It is a reflection of the isolated, empire culture of the US. It is how America as a country operates in the world.
It is not Jewish. And it is certainly not Israeli - a small people who have always sought a place in the world.
It is a reflection of the isolated, empire culture of the US. It is how America as a country operates in the world.
6
Apparently you miss the part where 50 Israel/Jewish NGO's like AIPAC have used bribery, blackmail and threats of turning Judea against a candidate who says one word against Israel (or until recently these criminals). No, instead the people we elect have fear that the large special (foreign) interest group will be against them and they are willing to have only a 14% approval in the USA by their constituents.... if AIPAC see's them as their ally.
Poor and vested Jews will be thrown under the bus, just like their leaders did to them in Germany. It's all about building Israel as the Jewish refuge from the world....because they can make Jews hated in the countries they share, first among Notzies and now with Muslims (working on Christians).
Poor and vested Jews will be thrown under the bus, just like their leaders did to them in Germany. It's all about building Israel as the Jewish refuge from the world....because they can make Jews hated in the countries they share, first among Notzies and now with Muslims (working on Christians).
2
Violence and Zionism go together like see love and marriage. Blaming Americans is just a dodge.of that fact.
2
Thank you Sara Yael Hirschhorn for speaking out against acts of terror committed by Israelis. It is a relief to learn that these "terrorists" are mostly "foreign implant" and that the US has been the breeding ground for settler violence. The world has always been lectured about young Palestinians trained to become terrorists and suicide bombers, without knowing the existence of their Jewish counterparts.
45
The uncomfortable truth is that every dollar American taxpayers give to Israel, every vote against the Iran agreement, every letter to the editor excoriating people who dare to criticize Israel, and every half-baked sermon by right wing rabbis in praise of Netanyahu and his gangster government is complicit in the death of Ali Dawabsheh. Go ahead,try and prove that I am wrong, but the fact remains that unchecked fundamentalist religion has been coupled with virulent, racist nationalism to create the very “swamp” that Rabin railed against. Everyone who supports the Netanyahu regime is an implicit conspirator in the destruction of the once-promising “Israeli dream.” Enjoy it now people because in about 75-80 years when the oil in the Middle East is all gone neither the U.S nor its increasingly secular and progressive Jewish community will even care what happens to Israel. To put it into “U.S. Open” terms, it will be game, set, match.
104
Thank you for differentiating between Netanyahu's circle and Israel as a whole. I wish that more people would do the same.
Personally, I strongly support Israel's right to exist and to defend itself vigorously against enemies who have been hell bent on its destruction since day one. I also am opposed to the settler movement in the West Bank, not because I want to see the West Bank be a "Palestinian only" ghetto, but because it is extremely poor public relations. In the short term it has had its benefits. Terrorist infiltration into Israel from the East has dropped strongly because of it. But in the long term it is causing Israel to lose the public relations war.
What I wish is that Jews and Muslims could live peacefully, side by side, in Gaza, Israel and the West Bank. But a certain overly influential sector of the Palestinian leadership seems it won't be satisfied until there is not a single Jew living within either Gaza or the West Bank. And of course, would they even be satisfied should that come about?
Personally, I strongly support Israel's right to exist and to defend itself vigorously against enemies who have been hell bent on its destruction since day one. I also am opposed to the settler movement in the West Bank, not because I want to see the West Bank be a "Palestinian only" ghetto, but because it is extremely poor public relations. In the short term it has had its benefits. Terrorist infiltration into Israel from the East has dropped strongly because of it. But in the long term it is causing Israel to lose the public relations war.
What I wish is that Jews and Muslims could live peacefully, side by side, in Gaza, Israel and the West Bank. But a certain overly influential sector of the Palestinian leadership seems it won't be satisfied until there is not a single Jew living within either Gaza or the West Bank. And of course, would they even be satisfied should that come about?
3
If in 75-80 years oil is no longer gushing from the Arab controlled lands of Middle East, the funding for terrorism will dry up. Then those countries that have modern economies, treat their citizens with respect and democratically elect their leaders will have a place in the world. Israel already possesses these laudable attributes, the rest of the region ought to start down this path post-haste if they want to survive.
The creation of Israel was a major mistake. It was supposed to secure a place for the Jews where they can escape discrimination and abuse in the aftermath of the holocaust. What it did is create new reasons for anti-Semitism, reduce Jewish safety and cause endless wars and hostilities. Perhaps the world Jews should consider the option of becoming a majority Jewish state in a future 'United Pan-Arab States' as Sam A. Cohen suggested in his book with that title.
37
Only in the new revisionist history was Israel supposed to secure a place for the Jews where they can escape discrimination etc.
Israel is indigenous to the Jews and recognizing this, pursuant to the Treaty of San Remo, the League of Nations awarded the British Mandate with a condition for the establishment of a Jewish homeland therein. This was long before the Holocaust.
Israel was not a compensation for Jews being killed anymore than a Kurdistan, if established, will be because the Kurds have historically been a persecuted minority.
Your narrative is a deligitimization of the history and peoplehood of the Jews.
Israel is indigenous to the Jews and recognizing this, pursuant to the Treaty of San Remo, the League of Nations awarded the British Mandate with a condition for the establishment of a Jewish homeland therein. This was long before the Holocaust.
Israel was not a compensation for Jews being killed anymore than a Kurdistan, if established, will be because the Kurds have historically been a persecuted minority.
Your narrative is a deligitimization of the history and peoplehood of the Jews.
5
c/o American
"What it did is create new reasons for anti-Semitism"
You make it sound like any such reasons are valid, rather than simply the products of sick minds.
" reduce Jewish safety"
Good one that. Since you've chosen "American" as your pseudonym, why don't you look up how concerned (not) Americans were while Jews were being slaughtered. Start with the steam ship St. Louis.
"What it did is create new reasons for anti-Semitism"
You make it sound like any such reasons are valid, rather than simply the products of sick minds.
" reduce Jewish safety"
Good one that. Since you've chosen "American" as your pseudonym, why don't you look up how concerned (not) Americans were while Jews were being slaughtered. Start with the steam ship St. Louis.
2
Please check the history of Jewish expulsion from Muslim nations before offering such brilliance.
2
Terrorism at its most blatant was first introduced into the Middle East as a political tool by Zionist organizations which came to form the back bone of the Israeli state and Isrseli,army.
It ranged from political assassinations of non Arab political figures unsupportive of Zionist ambitions in Palestine Lord Moyne and Count Bernadotte, the latter for daring to mediate the implimentation iof UNGA right of Return resolution,to mass massacres of civilians as in DEIR YASSIN and forced eviction of civilians as in Ramla preceded by the summary execution of men liable to insist on non emigration.
Both the assassins of the toddler and Palestinians at prayer are acting in accordance with the principles and moralities that established Israel in the first place.
It ranged from political assassinations of non Arab political figures unsupportive of Zionist ambitions in Palestine Lord Moyne and Count Bernadotte, the latter for daring to mediate the implimentation iof UNGA right of Return resolution,to mass massacres of civilians as in DEIR YASSIN and forced eviction of civilians as in Ramla preceded by the summary execution of men liable to insist on non emigration.
Both the assassins of the toddler and Palestinians at prayer are acting in accordance with the principles and moralities that established Israel in the first place.
64
Nobody is saying that such an act was justified. However, where you when three Israeli boys were being kidnapped and killed? What about when an American family was attacked by a Hamas member in Jerusalem by a car and had their baby killed? Better yet, where at least a bit mad when some Hamas members went into a Jerusalem synagogue and butchered up the four rabbis? I could never understand why there are those such as yourself who turn a blind eye. BTW, I'm not turning a blind eye to the Jewish extremists, but such statements doesn't excuse what the Palestinians are doing to Israeli civilians either. Please remember that two wrongs don't make a right.
4
The capacity of some to rewrite history by choosing starting points and selecting events is truly admirable. It is on the same level as saying that the attack on the Twin Towers was a CIA plot and that Jews working there were told to stay at home.
Somehow the events in the British Mandate in thirties and forties are ignored and the terrorism of the so-called Infitadas are passed over. The war started by the Arab countries when Israel was established is ignored. The murder of Palestinian Arabs by Hamas, whose leaders take their cue from Mugabe also bear little scrutiny. The self-serving delusions of many inhabitants of the Middle East is truly remarkable.
Yes, Israelis has behaved badly: so have Palestinians. Perhaps you should examine the truly wonderful happenings in Syria, Iraq, Iran, Libya, Nigeria, etc., etc., to broaden your perspective on the reality of REALITY.
Somehow the events in the British Mandate in thirties and forties are ignored and the terrorism of the so-called Infitadas are passed over. The war started by the Arab countries when Israel was established is ignored. The murder of Palestinian Arabs by Hamas, whose leaders take their cue from Mugabe also bear little scrutiny. The self-serving delusions of many inhabitants of the Middle East is truly remarkable.
Yes, Israelis has behaved badly: so have Palestinians. Perhaps you should examine the truly wonderful happenings in Syria, Iraq, Iran, Libya, Nigeria, etc., etc., to broaden your perspective on the reality of REALITY.
1
"Please remember that two wrongs don't make a right"
Look in a mirror...you are justifying saying yea they did it but look here.....they deserve it. You are saying not to do exactly what you are doing. Jews always have to be the victim....always...it's in the DNA.
Look in a mirror...you are justifying saying yea they did it but look here.....they deserve it. You are saying not to do exactly what you are doing. Jews always have to be the victim....always...it's in the DNA.
2
Absolutely agree with you. Where are the Rabbis - how dare they not speak up against these atrocities in which innocent people are murdered - and the existence of our state is severely undermined.
39
the rabbis have condemned it!
Ironic that I don't actually disagree with much of this article, but I find the writer's prejudices against ALL settlers distract from what she's trying to say. It's not correct that there's "little outcry" when Jewish settlers commit terror; she's apprarently not listening hard enough. And to speak of mansions on the west bank -- I'm not sure but I think it's an exaggeration. But I'm pretty sure her disdain is revealed by referring to sipping Starbucks, which, according to Starbucks, would make for a mighty cold cup of coffee. From what I saw on store locater at Starbucks website: the closest Starbucks to the west bank is in Amman, Jordan. Israel famously rejected Starbucks. There are none in Israel -- or the territories!
14
Starbucks sells pre-ground coffee and beans you can prepare at home.
Have the fine heros of the pals revolution who murdered the three hitchhikers faced a punishment yet.
Getting a square named after you doe not seem to very harsh.
Getting a square named after you doe not seem to very harsh.
8
I don't know where you've been, Lawrence, but you might be interested to know that the 'alleged' murderers of the three Israeli hitchhikers were shot to death not too long after the boys' bodies were found - no due process for them, and in addition, their homes were blown up.
On the other hand, the murderers of the young Palestinian boy who was kidnapped off the street and burned alive are still alive and well - their trial is still going on after over a year, in spite of their full confession to the crime. I guess it takes time for their lawyers to come up with a credible insanity defense plea. And BTW, their homes are still intact.
On the other hand, the murderers of the young Palestinian boy who was kidnapped off the street and burned alive are still alive and well - their trial is still going on after over a year, in spite of their full confession to the crime. I guess it takes time for their lawyers to come up with a credible insanity defense plea. And BTW, their homes are still intact.
2
The Israeli settler movement, and it's violence against Palestinians, make me so angry. I am Jewish, despite my last name, and the actions of Israelis against the Palestinians are the single leading cause of anti-semitism in the world today.
65
"the single leading cause of anti-semitism in the world today."
Interesting theory, though it doesn't explain the centuries of antisemitism that predate 1948, nor the causes for the expulsion of roughly 1 million Jews across North Africa and the Middle East in the decades between 1880 and 1950... long before the settler movement you referred to.
Interesting theory, though it doesn't explain the centuries of antisemitism that predate 1948, nor the causes for the expulsion of roughly 1 million Jews across North Africa and the Middle East in the decades between 1880 and 1950... long before the settler movement you referred to.
21
"...the single leading cause of anti-semitism in the world TODAY".
You ignored the operative word, "today", but that's a frequent strategy of the Israeli apologist - harken back to historical atrocities, as if that gives Israel sufficient reason to commit atrocities today.
You ignored the operative word, "today", but that's a frequent strategy of the Israeli apologist - harken back to historical atrocities, as if that gives Israel sufficient reason to commit atrocities today.
3
Actually, no, the disproportionate condemnation of all things Israeli is a reflection of widespread latent anti-Semitism, not the reverse.
1
Is grasping the card of victimization a don't-blame-me move? What special rights and dispensations do victims have?
4
In August 1967, two months after the Six Day War, the Arab League met in Khartoum, Sudan and responded to an Israeli offer to return all the captured lands in return for peace. The Arab League responded with the famous three no's of Khartoum-No Negotiation, No Recognition, No Peace.
Well, the Arab League got what it wanted. Now it's 48 years later and they still won't recognize the existence of Israel but they have realized that war can be fought in other ways besides on the military battlefield. Asymmetric and irregular warfare is one way, and others are diplomatic, media publicity , op-ed writing, school and university propaganda-all thymes of the war called peace. And yet, the Jews, those people who only cause trouble, refuse to give in without something in return-namely recognition of their right to exist as human beings. Time for the Arab Nation to reassess its stand of the last half century.
It's also interesting that the Times publishes plenty of articles by Israelis and Jews criticizing Israel. It would be refreshing to see the Times publish articles by Arabs criticizing their leaders- that is, if they dare.
Well, the Arab League got what it wanted. Now it's 48 years later and they still won't recognize the existence of Israel but they have realized that war can be fought in other ways besides on the military battlefield. Asymmetric and irregular warfare is one way, and others are diplomatic, media publicity , op-ed writing, school and university propaganda-all thymes of the war called peace. And yet, the Jews, those people who only cause trouble, refuse to give in without something in return-namely recognition of their right to exist as human beings. Time for the Arab Nation to reassess its stand of the last half century.
It's also interesting that the Times publishes plenty of articles by Israelis and Jews criticizing Israel. It would be refreshing to see the Times publish articles by Arabs criticizing their leaders- that is, if they dare.
34
This all started in 1948, not 1967. I suggest you read 'The Generals Son' and find out the true history.
17
This all started when both sons, Ishmael and Isaac, received a blessing, but only Isaac was the legitimate heir and received the covenant promise. The ultimate case of sibling rivalry continues.
5
Even if for the sake of argument, we accept everything that you say is the truth [which it mist definitely is not], the inescapable fact is that beginning with the Begin regime in the late 1970's, a series of increasingly right wing Israeli government have made every bad situation much, much worse. Each government has tried to outdo the last in its strident militarism, its granting of "special favors" to the virulent settler community, and its wholesale embrace of a religious fundamentalism that is almost unrecognizable in the West. It has even reached the point where Netanyahu has essentially forced the world Jewish community to make a choice - his way or the highway. Hint, the majority has given Bibi the single-finger salute he deserves.
9
Yes, terrorism is bad, no matter who perpetrates it, no matter for what reason.
I would be very happy to see the Israeli authorities crack down hard on Jewish terrorists.
I would also be very happy to the Palestinian Authority and Hamas do the same. When was the last time either of those organizations tracked down a Palestinian perpetrator of terrorism against Israelis, put him on trial and convict him to a very long period in prison?
I would be very happy to see the Israeli authorities crack down hard on Jewish terrorists.
I would also be very happy to the Palestinian Authority and Hamas do the same. When was the last time either of those organizations tracked down a Palestinian perpetrator of terrorism against Israelis, put him on trial and convict him to a very long period in prison?
26
Unfortunately, extremists are very much welcomed on the Palestinian side, and Hamas is known for celebrating such actions by handing out candy to everyone and partying about it.
3
When was the first time a murderer of Jews was tried by a Muslim regime?
2
Irony indeed! This entire op-ed is spent criticizing the liberal Jewish Israeli/American settlers for not strongly condemning "Jewish terrorism", but not a word about the brutal 48-year-long (and counting) apartheid forced military occupation and oppression of Palestinians by all of Israel and its extremist right-wing "government" Glad am I to hear that Jewish-American settlers in the West Bank and Jerusalem are proud of having stood with African Americans during the Civil Rights Movement in the 1960s. This writer can attest to that because I covered that Movement as a journalist in Louisiana and Mississippi and saw Jewish Americans in marches, rallies, lunch counter sit-ins, picketing and as freedom riders in Greyhound buses. Jewish Americans were in the vanguard of that Movement, and some, as we all know, gave their lives in advocating freedom, justice and equality for African Americans. Participation of Jewish Americans in America's Civil Rights Movement exemplified the practice and holding to the morals and values of Judaism. But looking back now and having become somewhat knowledgeable of the ongoing brutal unlawful 48-year-long apartheid forced Israeli military occupation at gunpoint of Palestine's Gaza, East Jerusalem and the West Bank, I must ask the "liberal Jewish American settlers" in the West Bank and East Jerusalem: Whatever happened to your Judaism in Israel? Why not freedom, justice and equality for your neighbors, the Palestinians?
71
What does the word "apartheid" actually mean? I know it's a fun one to throw around because it has all kinds of connotations related to South Africa and the grave injustices perpetrated on Africans by Europeans.
But what does it actually mean?
(hint - it has Dutch language origins)
But what does it actually mean?
(hint - it has Dutch language origins)
3
Jim, somewhat described it aptly, and perfectly: the spectrum of Zionism and anti-Zionism.
Near Shakespearean in its word use.
Near Shakespearean in its word use.
2
Apartheid literally means "separateness". The classic example from America's past would be the separate water fountain for blacks.
Separateness... dividing the social and physical spheres into 2 sections, 1 for one group, 1 for the other.
Is this truly the case in Israel? I don't doubt that there is discrimination by Jews against non-Jews within Israel's citizenry, just as discrimination is found in the USA and across most countries on the planet. However the non-Jewish Israeli citizen has access to the same courts, the same schools, the same jobs and the same rights under the law as the Jewish Israeli citizen.
Can the same be said for Jews living in Gaza (there are none), or the West Bank, or Egypt, or Syria, or Saudi Arabia, or Libya ... ?
Where is the apartheid?
Separateness... dividing the social and physical spheres into 2 sections, 1 for one group, 1 for the other.
Is this truly the case in Israel? I don't doubt that there is discrimination by Jews against non-Jews within Israel's citizenry, just as discrimination is found in the USA and across most countries on the planet. However the non-Jewish Israeli citizen has access to the same courts, the same schools, the same jobs and the same rights under the law as the Jewish Israeli citizen.
Can the same be said for Jews living in Gaza (there are none), or the West Bank, or Egypt, or Syria, or Saudi Arabia, or Libya ... ?
Where is the apartheid?
2
"Terrorist", "Settler terrorism".
It would be fantastic if the NYT were to call *everybody* who murders, tries to murder or supports murder in the name of god, a terrorist. But that would require renaming most of Gaza and 10s of thousands of PA residents as "terrorists". The NYT prefers to call the guys who launch GRAD rockets into Israeli towns, the PA and Gazan government funded guys who pay and are paid to kidnap and murder teenagers and sleeping families "militants" but the few (true - it is a few too many but it is also very few) Jewish Israelis who spray paint "payback" on Arab homes and puncture tires - these are the guys the NYT calls "terrorists".
You can count on the fingers of one hand the number of Arabs murdered by Jewish Israelis. The opposite is not true.
There is not a week goes by that an Arab terrorist does not murder or attempt to murder Jewish Israelis. Every. single. week. They are "militants"
Israel will catch the guys who burnt the home and murdered the Arab child and father. They perps will go to jail and unlike the Arab terrorists, their families will not get a penny of financial support from the gov't and they will never be called heros.
That is one heck of a difference NYTimes. One that you might want to mention.
It would be fantastic if the NYT were to call *everybody* who murders, tries to murder or supports murder in the name of god, a terrorist. But that would require renaming most of Gaza and 10s of thousands of PA residents as "terrorists". The NYT prefers to call the guys who launch GRAD rockets into Israeli towns, the PA and Gazan government funded guys who pay and are paid to kidnap and murder teenagers and sleeping families "militants" but the few (true - it is a few too many but it is also very few) Jewish Israelis who spray paint "payback" on Arab homes and puncture tires - these are the guys the NYT calls "terrorists".
You can count on the fingers of one hand the number of Arabs murdered by Jewish Israelis. The opposite is not true.
There is not a week goes by that an Arab terrorist does not murder or attempt to murder Jewish Israelis. Every. single. week. They are "militants"
Israel will catch the guys who burnt the home and murdered the Arab child and father. They perps will go to jail and unlike the Arab terrorists, their families will not get a penny of financial support from the gov't and they will never be called heros.
That is one heck of a difference NYTimes. One that you might want to mention.
28
Just how many fingers do you have in one hand? The Op-Ed piece mentions Baruch Goldstein's massacre but does not state that he murdered 29 people and injured 125. Just that horrific incident is more than the 5 fingers most people have in one hand. Goldstein remains a hero to the lunatic fringe of the settler movement to this day. While his terrorism is the most violent act, it is within the context of unpunished setter violence "the price tag" mentality. The same context that allowed and to this day celebrates the murder of Rabin, the most courageous Prime Minister in Israel's history. For the last 10 years, there has been on average 1 incident of settler violence every day based on UN data and B'Tselem data. No doubt, you find those organizations unreliable and disgusting (though, ironically, the UN created Israel). But pretending that settler or Jewish violence can be counted on one hand is simply the type of lie that is repeated as propaganda that the Op-Ed piece correctly challenges.
2
Since you want to more broadly condemn all violence as terrorism - a worthy sentiment, here are some other numbers to count. Since 2000 to present, 133 Israeli children have been killed by Palestinians vs. 2061 Palestinian children killed by Israelis; 1198 Israelis killed vs. 9139 Palestinians killed; 11446 Israelis injured vs. 73158 Palestinians injured. Since 1967 to present, 0 Israeli homes have been demolished vs. 28000 Palestinian homes demolished. There are 261 Jewish only settlements or outposts on land confiscated from Palestinians vs. 0 Palestinian settlements. The violence on both sides should be condemned, especially when directed against civilians. Condemning one's own side is always harder; dehumanizing the other side and saying they deserve the violence is easier. The Op-Ed piece rightly states that condemning violence from our own groups, specifically the extremists on our side, is the morally right thing to do. Makes us better human beings and the world a better place.
3
You seem to ignore those who kill in order to steal their neighbours farms and homes and burn peaceful Palestinians, including children, alive in the process. What's your suggestion for the appropriate vocabulary for those people. What vocabulary should be used for the carpet punishment bombings of civilians and civilian infrastructure by the State of Israel? What vocabulary for those who illegally colonise Palestinian land against all international law?
1
This is for everyone who thought young American youths traveling to the Middle East to cause mayhem and terror started with ISIS recruits. And since these youths had no social media to lure them, it is fairly safe to assume that they got their education at home.
21
A young French boy (19 years old) decided to leave the comfort of his very wealthy and respected family and offer his military services--at the possible expense of his life--to a rebel army 3,000 miles away, actively fighting for the rebel army against the then-legitimate government. He was welcomed with open arms, was soon appointed General by the rebel army's leader, treated as a son by that leader, and ended up a hero in that foreign land. He is revered still. And he wasn't a jihadist. Religion was not a prime motivator.
The rebel leader's name was George Washington, and the French boy was the Marquis de Lafayette.
The rebel leader's name was George Washington, and the French boy was the Marquis de Lafayette.
Bravo to Ms. Hirschhorn for bringing into the light the important influence of American religious extremists on the ongoing discrimination practiced in Israel. The whole settlement movement, openly & defiantly illegal, is heavily driven by these US fanatics. And they in turn are supported by the AIPAC & a few key members of Congress, most notably Senators Schumer & Menendez.
I guess that’s all fine and good as long as the Israeli people are willing to condone such behavior. But what isn’t OK is that so many of my tax dollars go to support this despicable form a oppression. Tiny & far from impoverished Israel has been by far the largest recipient of US foreign aid over the last 5 decades. We give the country roughly $500 every year for every man, woman & child resident in the country! I am tired of funding this rogue nation whose leaders openly work against our President and our country’s desire to promote peace in the Middle East.
We need to find a way to prohibit a lobbying organization backing a foreign country from buying our elected representatives. Admittedly they do it skillfully & obviously are effective. But I say ENOUGH.
I guess that’s all fine and good as long as the Israeli people are willing to condone such behavior. But what isn’t OK is that so many of my tax dollars go to support this despicable form a oppression. Tiny & far from impoverished Israel has been by far the largest recipient of US foreign aid over the last 5 decades. We give the country roughly $500 every year for every man, woman & child resident in the country! I am tired of funding this rogue nation whose leaders openly work against our President and our country’s desire to promote peace in the Middle East.
We need to find a way to prohibit a lobbying organization backing a foreign country from buying our elected representatives. Admittedly they do it skillfully & obviously are effective. But I say ENOUGH.
59
The bitter tone of so many of the responses to this op-ed piece is wholly understandable. Professor Hirschhorn, while she condemns the violence of both sides, focuses on the sins of the Israelis and thereby implicitly challenges their self-image as a people notable for their decency and commitment to democracy.
I strongly support Israel, but in this case I believe its defenders protest too much. Many of the responders resent any suggestion that the Israeli state and people share blame for the actions of a handful of extremists in their midst. For their part, however, they make no effort to distinguish between the atrocities of Hamas, on the one hand, and the behavior or attitude of the bulk of the Palestinian people, on the other. It must also be stressed that Israelis cannot escape responsibility for the actions of their government because it is a democratic institution; the same can hardly be said of Hamas.
Despite the repugnance of Hamas, moreover, there is no moral equivalence between the violence committed by the two sides. All the atrocities are detestable, but the Palestinians, like our native Americans, are engaged in a defensive campaign to regain land seized by the Jewish state. Israeli actions, both the random acts of extremists and the official policy of the government, including the settlement policy, stem from a determination to expel the Palestinians from their land.
There is much guilt on both sides, but the world rightly sees Israel as the aggressor.
I strongly support Israel, but in this case I believe its defenders protest too much. Many of the responders resent any suggestion that the Israeli state and people share blame for the actions of a handful of extremists in their midst. For their part, however, they make no effort to distinguish between the atrocities of Hamas, on the one hand, and the behavior or attitude of the bulk of the Palestinian people, on the other. It must also be stressed that Israelis cannot escape responsibility for the actions of their government because it is a democratic institution; the same can hardly be said of Hamas.
Despite the repugnance of Hamas, moreover, there is no moral equivalence between the violence committed by the two sides. All the atrocities are detestable, but the Palestinians, like our native Americans, are engaged in a defensive campaign to regain land seized by the Jewish state. Israeli actions, both the random acts of extremists and the official policy of the government, including the settlement policy, stem from a determination to expel the Palestinians from their land.
There is much guilt on both sides, but the world rightly sees Israel as the aggressor.
119
When will their houses be torn down, and they be tossed out of the country after serving long sentences?
15
Thank you for an article I'd expect only in Ha'aretz.
Our media needs to cover this, it's our Exceptionally American violence that has been exported to all corners of the globe.
Holy men of any faith urging murder/terror is exactly equivalent to the radical imams preaching jihad.
Our hypocrisy no longer hold up.
Our media needs to cover this, it's our Exceptionally American violence that has been exported to all corners of the globe.
Holy men of any faith urging murder/terror is exactly equivalent to the radical imams preaching jihad.
Our hypocrisy no longer hold up.
25
Keep in mind that the groups sponsoring these illegal colonists and their religion of hate are tax-exempt organizations under the Internal Revenue Code. Thus, all Americans subsidize them and their actions.
But if an American tries to help Palestinians by donating money, they are vigorously prosecuted by the Dep't of Justice for aiding and abetting terrorism.
But if an American tries to help Palestinians by donating money, they are vigorously prosecuted by the Dep't of Justice for aiding and abetting terrorism.
44
Quite so and this shows the power of AIPAC to control Congress by gaming the election campaign funding system.
Does it harm the USA ? In 2003, journalist Thom Friedman of the NYT`s counted 25 members of the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations saying, “if you had exiled them to a desert island a year and half ago, the Iraq war would not have happened”.
Does it harm the USA ? In 2003, journalist Thom Friedman of the NYT`s counted 25 members of the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations saying, “if you had exiled them to a desert island a year and half ago, the Iraq war would not have happened”.
1
If you bothered to read about the parliamentary elections held in the Palestinian territories that were held not that long ago, Hamas, a recognized terrorist organization, dominated and won most of the seats, plus they have a history of misusing funds for their own causes such as having more weapons to fire at Israeli civilians.
The root of the problem is the intolerance, racism and negative attitude of Arab settlers and squatters. It always has been.
The Arab argument has always been that "Jews have no right to the land". Even that land that was legally purchased from Arabs (most of the land in dispute). The Arabs refused to pay money to buy back land that was sold prior to 1945 and claimed that they would take it back by force. (The Coming War Over Palestine, published 1946)
This fact, coupled with the well-known mass immigration of more than 500,000 Arabs from Saudi Arabia, Transjordan, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and Algeria makes Sara Yael sound foolish!
The Arab argument has always been that "Jews have no right to the land". Even that land that was legally purchased from Arabs (most of the land in dispute). The Arabs refused to pay money to buy back land that was sold prior to 1945 and claimed that they would take it back by force. (The Coming War Over Palestine, published 1946)
This fact, coupled with the well-known mass immigration of more than 500,000 Arabs from Saudi Arabia, Transjordan, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and Algeria makes Sara Yael sound foolish!
19
Always Right --will you please document these claims for us ?
I have been following the Israel / Palestine debacle since WW 2, and I have never
heard such claims as yours, from any source, about Arab migration to Palestine.
Thanks
I have been following the Israel / Palestine debacle since WW 2, and I have never
heard such claims as yours, from any source, about Arab migration to Palestine.
Thanks
11
I want to make sure that I understand you correctly: The setting of a fire that resulted in the death of an 18-month old, and indications of an increased radical presence in the settler communities from American-born settlers is excusable because of the reasons that you list? The facts in your second paragraph are incomplete and your analysis is - at best - facile. Your final paragraph is a non sequitur.
Undoubtedly, at this point, neither side has behaved entirely well, nor can either side claim "pure" victimhood. Context matters, of course. But, it does not follow that every aspect of Israeli-Palestinian relations is contextualized at such a high level that people cannot address and analyze component parts of the relationship. We are most likely past the point of any sort of easy answer to the whole situation. History, and context, are complicated. The resulting "solutions" - such as they are - will be just as complicated. Attributing single, and simple, causes via finger-pointing, is smug.
Undoubtedly, at this point, neither side has behaved entirely well, nor can either side claim "pure" victimhood. Context matters, of course. But, it does not follow that every aspect of Israeli-Palestinian relations is contextualized at such a high level that people cannot address and analyze component parts of the relationship. We are most likely past the point of any sort of easy answer to the whole situation. History, and context, are complicated. The resulting "solutions" - such as they are - will be just as complicated. Attributing single, and simple, causes via finger-pointing, is smug.
6
Y ou amaze me. One of the most prominent families among the Palestinians is the "al Masri". This family includes at least one
billionaire and the press secretaries of both Fatah and Hamas. "al
Masri" means "Egyptian".
arcaneone
billionaire and the press secretaries of both Fatah and Hamas. "al
Masri" means "Egyptian".
arcaneone
1
Can you imagine the uproar if the FBI set up a program to penetrate and spy on the American Jewish community, like they do the American Muslim community? Cries of anti-semitism would fly like arrows at Agincourt.
Some years back, a young Jewish man murdered a female mail carrier in my city,in an attempted rape. His parents spirited him off to Israel, knowing that, by Israeli law, he couldn't be extradited back to the US to face trial. The local Jewish community was conspicuously silent. Meanwhile, Muslim Americans are criticized for not speaking out against Islamic terrorists loudly enough.
Some years back, a young Jewish man murdered a female mail carrier in my city,in an attempted rape. His parents spirited him off to Israel, knowing that, by Israeli law, he couldn't be extradited back to the US to face trial. The local Jewish community was conspicuously silent. Meanwhile, Muslim Americans are criticized for not speaking out against Islamic terrorists loudly enough.
58
If the murderer you are referring to is Samuel Scheinbein, you left out some important (and easily accessible) information. First, in 1999, he was tried and convicted in an Israeli court for the 1997 murder and was sentenced to 24 years in prison, which ended last year when he was shot to death after attacking prison guards.
Second, as a result of this case, Israel amended its law. Now, extradition of Israeli citizens whose citizenship was acquired under the Law of Return now includes a residential component that should prevent a repeat of this problem.
For what it's worth, exceedingly few countries extradite their own citizens and prefer, as Israel did, to try them in their own courts.
Second, as a result of this case, Israel amended its law. Now, extradition of Israeli citizens whose citizenship was acquired under the Law of Return now includes a residential component that should prevent a repeat of this problem.
For what it's worth, exceedingly few countries extradite their own citizens and prefer, as Israel did, to try them in their own courts.
10
"a young Jewish man murdered a female mail carrier in my city,in an attempted rape. His parents spirited him off to Israel, knowing that, by Israeli law, he couldn't be extradited back to the US to face trial."
The same thing happened with Samuel Sheinbein. His father spirited him to Israel, which refused to extradite him, despite his committing 1st degree murder:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Sheinbein
The same thing happened with Samuel Sheinbein. His father spirited him to Israel, which refused to extradite him, despite his committing 1st degree murder:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Sheinbein
I think what is going on in Israel, Gaza, and the West Bank should be brought out in the media more...rather than the glorification of a country whose attitudes toward others in the area are basically repugnant . We need more input from Norman Finkelstein and others, whose views are not corrupted by the Israeli and Jewish intimidation. His thoughts and opinions ( based on knowledge and facts ) are not generally welcome in the U.S. media.
33
Norman Finkelstein's views have been corrupted by Arab intimidation. What is needed is an objective view of history, which recognizes and implements the Two-state solution, as envisioned by the United Nations under UNGAR 181 in 1947!
3
Is i t too much to point out that the Jews accepted 181 and the Arabs rejected it?
arcaneone
arcaneone
The author (whose academic credentials unfortunately do not appear on the Oxford Web Site) points out the criminal intolerance of American-born Jews who settled in the part of the Holy Land incarnated as the State of Israel and that was dreamt by Theodore Herzl to be the "State of the Jews" (Der Judenstaat).
This development, addressed to by Ms. Hirschhorn, may not be surprising: the upbringing in the Ghetto-like neighborhoods of American cities and the self-imposed isolation from the culture of the Occident are the factors contributing to extremism and intolerance of those who are the products of such an environment. They have certainly not absorbed with mother's milk the better manifestations of the American ethos and spirit.
This development, addressed to by Ms. Hirschhorn, may not be surprising: the upbringing in the Ghetto-like neighborhoods of American cities and the self-imposed isolation from the culture of the Occident are the factors contributing to extremism and intolerance of those who are the products of such an environment. They have certainly not absorbed with mother's milk the better manifestations of the American ethos and spirit.
9
There are few articles that try to explain Jewish radicalism.In a way many problems have resulted from this.Not only the children of warmongers like Kahane but wealthy American Jews that finance the continued violence in the middle east.Whether it is Republican candidates financed by right wing Jewish Billionaires prompting the next war or the child of malevolent American rabbis spewing hate and death it is really all the same . Those THAT SHOULD BE PROSECUTED, instead are given reserved seats in Congress for a speech by a head of state not invited by the president.Much like an article today in this paper about US involvement in Guatemala and the death squads, we are equally corrupt in starting Isis, and Al-queda.Indeed any talk of not just ending support but not promoting results in the cries of anit-semantisim for the usual cabal.
22
Hoe do you define the word terrorist because as far as I can see non of the actions in this article can be be described that way,
Dr Goldstein was not part of a larger group.
He acted as a individual and was denounced by all Jews at that time.
How can you say there was very little outcry to the recent deaths in the west bank when Ali Dawabsheh was burned alive.
First you say alleged.
That means you arr not sure.
Then you say thy are detained which means to me there was a outcry.
If there wasn't they wouldn't have been detained.
This article is trying to say the Jews and the Arabs are the same because they are both terrorist nations.
This is not true and anyone with intelligence would know that.
Dr Goldstein was not part of a larger group.
He acted as a individual and was denounced by all Jews at that time.
How can you say there was very little outcry to the recent deaths in the west bank when Ali Dawabsheh was burned alive.
First you say alleged.
That means you arr not sure.
Then you say thy are detained which means to me there was a outcry.
If there wasn't they wouldn't have been detained.
This article is trying to say the Jews and the Arabs are the same because they are both terrorist nations.
This is not true and anyone with intelligence would know that.
17
But they are the same-An Arab extremist looks no different than a Jewish extremist. Both communities have them in abundance, only the Palestinians are advertised in the western media. I wonder why? All settlements in the West Bank must be dismantled-this is the cause of Arab extremism.
5
Dr. Goldstein was as much a lone-wolf as are the lone wolves inspired by ISIS to commit acts of terror.
6
"He acted as a individual and was denounced by all Jews at that time"..... and that's why the Jews of Hebron built a shrine to him
5
After the signing of the Oslo Accords, the agreement where the Palestinians, on the promise of establishment of a semi-autonomous Palestinian state, agreed to conditions of continued Israeli interference in their internal affairs the Israelis themselves would never have agreed to, terrorist attacks throughout the region dropped to the vanishing point.
Then came the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin (a true visionary and patriot) which ushered in the Sharon-Netanyahu era in which the agreement was essentially torn up and terrorist violence resumed until it's now worse than ever on both sides.
Until Israelis finally acknowledge that, as Rabin understood two decades ago, the only hope for preservation of the Jewish State is a two-state solution, Israel's prospects are bleak. And the current Israeli government's policy of avoiding hard decisions by maintaining the status quo of perpetual war with the Palestinians coupled with the consequent further isolation of Israel from the world community will only accelerate Israel's existential crisis.
Then came the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin (a true visionary and patriot) which ushered in the Sharon-Netanyahu era in which the agreement was essentially torn up and terrorist violence resumed until it's now worse than ever on both sides.
Until Israelis finally acknowledge that, as Rabin understood two decades ago, the only hope for preservation of the Jewish State is a two-state solution, Israel's prospects are bleak. And the current Israeli government's policy of avoiding hard decisions by maintaining the status quo of perpetual war with the Palestinians coupled with the consequent further isolation of Israel from the world community will only accelerate Israel's existential crisis.
21
Yours is a common misunderstanding perhaps driven by frustration, but Prime Minister Rabin never advocated or supported the "two state solution." He supported some lesser form of autonomy for the Palestinian Territories.
The first Israeli Prime Minister who formally supported the "two states for two peoples" solution as a matter of Israeli policy was Benjamin Netanyahu.
The first Israeli Prime Minister who formally supported the "two states for two peoples" solution as a matter of Israeli policy was Benjamin Netanyahu.
3
The vast majority of settlers live where they do for purely economic reasons.
Just ask them.
But, obviously, that would ruin the thesis of this piece, that many settlers in Judea and Samaria, the Land of Israel given to our people by G-d as mentioned in the Torah, are terrorists.
Are there terrorists?
A handful and truly nothing more.
However, because they are Jews this author makes a very big deal about it.
It is not as big a deal as she and others of her ilk would make it appear.
Israel is treating these people much more severely than it treats Arab terrorists. They are being arrested and held without trial, without charges in many cases. This is being done to show that Jewish terrorists will not be lightly treated in a Jewish state.
However, the demonization of Israel will continue by those who hate Jews and our Homeland.
Of that I have no doubt.
Shana tova ( Happy New Year 5775 ) to all.
Just ask them.
But, obviously, that would ruin the thesis of this piece, that many settlers in Judea and Samaria, the Land of Israel given to our people by G-d as mentioned in the Torah, are terrorists.
Are there terrorists?
A handful and truly nothing more.
However, because they are Jews this author makes a very big deal about it.
It is not as big a deal as she and others of her ilk would make it appear.
Israel is treating these people much more severely than it treats Arab terrorists. They are being arrested and held without trial, without charges in many cases. This is being done to show that Jewish terrorists will not be lightly treated in a Jewish state.
However, the demonization of Israel will continue by those who hate Jews and our Homeland.
Of that I have no doubt.
Shana tova ( Happy New Year 5775 ) to all.
13
The more I hear about israel, the more I think it can't be this way. But that's what i also think about Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Iran. Maybe its time for HONY to take a trip to Israel.
1
It isn't that what is being told here isn't true, and isn't reprehensible. But the implication that there is some kind of symmetry in murderous acts, racist orientation, and evil intent is truly the new kind of antisemitism. The danger is in how the world has historically allowed this to become an excuse for the Jews (not the Israelis) getting "what they deserve". Are things different this time around, now that we know that Jews didn't cause the Plague? And I thought we had collectively become aware of how easily we slip into misunderstanding...
14
Israeli right-wingers have been able to hide for decades behind idealist Israelis- the left-wing dreamers with visions of equality, justice and democracy for all- in a Jewish homeland.
The dream of a democratic and Jewish homeland is now under pretty much dead due to those same right-wingers that have risen in power the last 20 years and simply want a country that "Jewish," moreover, their type of Jewish- they don't care much for a democracy with Arab or Christian involvement.
The liberal left seems to have either given up or moved on to America or Europe. They realize that Israel isn't moving forward and the Palestinian Occupation is slowly destroying Israel's soul.
Americans too, may one day wake up and question our unending support for a government that is denying equality to 4 million people, solely based upon religion. For instance, a Jewish settler and an Arab Palestinian live in the same city (such as Hebron or any West Bank area), but one has the right to vote and all other citizenship rights while the other has no rights and lives under constant military rule- solely based upon religion.
The dream of a democratic and Jewish homeland is now under pretty much dead due to those same right-wingers that have risen in power the last 20 years and simply want a country that "Jewish," moreover, their type of Jewish- they don't care much for a democracy with Arab or Christian involvement.
The liberal left seems to have either given up or moved on to America or Europe. They realize that Israel isn't moving forward and the Palestinian Occupation is slowly destroying Israel's soul.
Americans too, may one day wake up and question our unending support for a government that is denying equality to 4 million people, solely based upon religion. For instance, a Jewish settler and an Arab Palestinian live in the same city (such as Hebron or any West Bank area), but one has the right to vote and all other citizenship rights while the other has no rights and lives under constant military rule- solely based upon religion.
16
The Palestinians have squandered numerous opportunities for a state of their own as a consequence of failed "wars of aggression" against Israel. It appears that their priorities lie, not in establishing a state of their own, which they could have done since 1948, but in eradicating Israel. In any such "one to the exclusion of the other" scenario, Israel, in the interest of preserving its national independence and territorial integrity, must maintain their military superiority, and thus continue the so-called "occupation!" If all of the land is disputed, including Israel within the 1949 "Green Line," then all of Jerusalem, the West Bank (Judea and Samaria) and even Gaza, are disputed as well!
The choice for Palestinians is simple: either establish a state of their own co-existing in peace alongside their Israeli neighbors, or remain stateless and disenfranchised! Perhaps, future generations of Palestinians will determine that statehood is more important than independence; perhaps not. That will be their decision to make in future years. Currently, they are incapable of making the necessary compromises for peace and independent statehood!
The choice for Palestinians is simple: either establish a state of their own co-existing in peace alongside their Israeli neighbors, or remain stateless and disenfranchised! Perhaps, future generations of Palestinians will determine that statehood is more important than independence; perhaps not. That will be their decision to make in future years. Currently, they are incapable of making the necessary compromises for peace and independent statehood!
1
Settlers think that there is some roots for the Jewish people in the west bank for example Judea, which translates to "Land of the Jews" is a pretty strong indication that Judaism had a presence there. This article only says a very seldom amount of freak incidents. This is how you can show a lot more of facts:
January 1st, 2001: Netanya centre combing, 60 injured (Hamas)
January 30th, 2001: Tayibe bombing 2 injured (Islamic Jihad (Palestinain))
March 27th, 2001: Talpoint bombinb 7 injured (Islamic Jihad (Palestinain))
March 27th, 2001: Bus 6 bombing 28 injured (Hamas)
March 25th 2001: Central bus bombing 65 injured (Islamic Jihad (Palestinain))
I can keep on going for quite a while but that is just a brief example of some proportion and "extremism" difference that both sides have. Now for the barrier wall, this is a pretty strong indication that one needed to be build so Jihadist like these do not walk across the board and blow themselves up.
January 1st, 2001: Netanya centre combing, 60 injured (Hamas)
January 30th, 2001: Tayibe bombing 2 injured (Islamic Jihad (Palestinain))
March 27th, 2001: Talpoint bombinb 7 injured (Islamic Jihad (Palestinain))
March 27th, 2001: Bus 6 bombing 28 injured (Hamas)
March 25th 2001: Central bus bombing 65 injured (Islamic Jihad (Palestinain))
I can keep on going for quite a while but that is just a brief example of some proportion and "extremism" difference that both sides have. Now for the barrier wall, this is a pretty strong indication that one needed to be build so Jihadist like these do not walk across the board and blow themselves up.
8
These are all caused by the illegal Jewish settlement of the West Bank
4
"Now for the barrier wall, this is a pretty strong indication that one needed to be build"
Even if you are right that it was needed, it ought not to have been built deep inside the other fellow's country. It was ALSO a land grab.
Even if you are right that it was needed, it ought not to have been built deep inside the other fellow's country. It was ALSO a land grab.
2
Finally, the New York Times stretches one little toe forward on the path toward the truth in Israel.
This Jewish American is looking for further steps by the New York Time on this path.
This Jewish American is looking for further steps by the New York Time on this path.
21
If both American and Israeli Zionists want to talk about actual existential threats to Israel, they need to start by looking in the mirror.
And if they want to talk about anti-Semitism, they need to look at who is really threatening Judaism. Yitzhak Rabin knew. And was murdered for his knowledge.
And if they want to talk about anti-Semitism, they need to look at who is really threatening Judaism. Yitzhak Rabin knew. And was murdered for his knowledge.
20
Since when slender becomes an OpEd article in the most important news paper? "All available evidence suggests that the blaze was a deliberate act of settler terrorism" Really? Can you share this evidence with the readers? Has the Police arrested one settler and accused him? A couple of weeks ago another house was burned down in the same village, which has been notorious for bad blood between families that many time ends up in violence. This latter incident is under investigation by the Palestinian police, and no one accused any settler. So until we have a clear evidence about the perpetrators of this outrageous crime, the above sentence is pure slender. But why complain when people on the left continuously lie about Israel and the IDF. 18-Month-old Ali Dawabsheh was a victim of evil, but so were the children of the Vogel family, whose throats were cut in their sleep by Palestinian terrorists. Where was Ms. Hirschhorn then? Apparently she justifies the murder of Jewish children just for the simple reason that they settle in their historical homeland. The only good thing about such articles, with such an outrageous inciting titles, is that they serve as nails in the coffin of the Israeli left.
11
It isn't just the Israeli left. I'm a lifelong Democrat, who used to identify as "liberal", but I have been enlightened to the fact that the irrational and delusional anti-Semitic group think under the guise of "human rights" of the far left is no better than the irrational and delusional racist group think under the guise of "taking our country back" of the far right. People are starting to see what the far left is really about, and it is costing them in elections. Look at what happened when Ed Milliband sold the Jews out to win a few Muslim votes in Europe. The good news is that Hillary Clinton will throw the wingnuts back out of the party soon enough.
Thou doth protest too much.
1
Pretty good story... At the end of the day Israel is Self Righteous, Self Centered Self Absorbed and Self Afflicted.
14
Thank you for this article. The significance of racist Americans in the settler movement and throughout Israel has long been kept as hidden as possible by the unquestioning supporters of Israel. Since many of these American settlers have US passports, why shouldn't they be prosecuted under US law? They also join the Israeli military so they can murder Palestinians under the guise of combat. What do you say to this Senator Schumer? How about cutting off all military and economic aid to Israel.
17
The terrorist mentality even extends to their cruel comments on the USA.
BREAKING NEWS By JTA \ 09/04/2015 20:01
'Jimmy Carter's cancer is God's punishment for his behavior toward Jews'
Is this a nation to receive US aid?
BREAKING NEWS By JTA \ 09/04/2015 20:01
'Jimmy Carter's cancer is God's punishment for his behavior toward Jews'
Is this a nation to receive US aid?
20
I take it you have a link that I can click to verify these explosive claims?
It's worth noting that the Israeli government in fact condones this, and the U.S. government finances the Jewish terrorist settlements on stolen Palestinian land.
13
It is so encouraging to hear Jews stand up and condemn the terrorism committed by co-religionists. All too often criticism of the Israeli government is met with accusations of anti-Semitism. Nothing could be more anti-Semitic than to defend those whose despicable acts of hate besmirch the proud history and uncertain future of Judaism.
14
This article is a primary example of the red herring argument that college freshman are learning about this month. How very pedestrian of the author to touch on this extremely rare incident by placing blame on a group of people (Jews living in Judea, Samaria and Israel proper) without a single particle of evidence.
10
A good and effective start would be for the Israeli electorate to "spit out" Benjamin Netanyahu and Avigdor Lieberman. They have proven time and time again that they are unworthy of the Israeli people and fatally detrimental to the enlightened self-interest of Jews everywhere.
12
Presumably these terrorist Americans still have American passports, as many Israelis do. Are they on US Dept of Homeland Security watch lists if they attempt to return to the USA? I see little difference in behavior between these people and ISIS, Hamas, and Hezbollah people who certainly would be stopped at our borders.
16
Yet more hypocrisy?
"An interesting focus, given hundreds of thousands killed or displaced in Syria?"
Who can't agree with that? Why should anyone get all worked up about an innocent 18-month old baby who's burned alive when there are thousands -- thousands -- being killed or displaced in Syria? Where are our priorities?
"An interesting focus, given hundreds of thousands killed or displaced in Syria?"
Who can't agree with that? Why should anyone get all worked up about an innocent 18-month old baby who's burned alive when there are thousands -- thousands -- being killed or displaced in Syria? Where are our priorities?
4
"Every secular Israeli I've ever met can't stand [the settlers] and state they are the greatest obstacle to peace."
Ever notice how those "secular Israelis" never actually do anything about those bad settlers? In other words, are we seeing exactly what Meir Kahane used to say?
"Remember, I only say what you think."
Ever notice how those "secular Israelis" never actually do anything about those bad settlers? In other words, are we seeing exactly what Meir Kahane used to say?
"Remember, I only say what you think."
9
A settler-supporter spots hypocrisy:
"Yet another article about Jewish extremist but nary a condemnation of those young Arabs who are" just throwing a few stones"."
I wasn't there, of course, but I have a hunch that 18-month old baby who was burned alive wasn't throwing any stones.
"Yet another article about Jewish extremist but nary a condemnation of those young Arabs who are" just throwing a few stones"."
I wasn't there, of course, but I have a hunch that 18-month old baby who was burned alive wasn't throwing any stones.
7
Then we should stop blaming Pakistan!! We should clean up our own home before blaming others!
1
First, the author assumes Jews killed the Arab baby in the news lately-- even though there is no evidence. 'Innocent till proven guilty" apparently is a phrase unknown to this Oxford researcher. Second, there is more than moral indignation in this article, there is actual hatred of those Jews who are religious and believe in the Bible, and that Judea and Samaria, and not Tel Aviv, is their patrimony. Alas, she is typical of secular Israelis on the far left.
7
As a long time supporter of Israel, I find it impossible to support any degree of tolerance for these Israeli terrorists. Until the Israeli public elects a government that distances itself from the actions of its own terrorists...whether homegrown or transplants from other countries...Israel will sound hollow when criticizing Hamas, Hezbollah and other anti-Israeli terrorist groups. I would suggest that Israel show its commitment to fighting terror does not exclude Jewish terrorists by applying the same harsh punishment against Jewish settlements that are breeding grounds for terrorists...just as they punish villages that produce Palestinian terrorists.
5
This Israel supporter thinks we're making way too much of this 18-month old child burned alive:
"An interesting focus, given hundreds of thousands killed or displaced in Syria?"
And after all, it appears there was just ONE 18-month old child burned alive. It's not like there were a whole bunch of them. Sheesh!
"An interesting focus, given hundreds of thousands killed or displaced in Syria?"
And after all, it appears there was just ONE 18-month old child burned alive. It's not like there were a whole bunch of them. Sheesh!
2
One Palestinian child has been killed by Israel every 3 days for the last 15 years...https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/.../6185- not to mention the 6000 Palestinian children injured or the 800,000 Palestinians who have arrested by the foreign occupiers.
1
While Arab terrorists are born and bred right at home.
4
Like the author of this essay, I am constantly encountering supporters of the Israeli occupation who see no contradiction with their otherwise liberal views. Both the Palestinians and the Israeli settlers in the West Bank are living in the same land, which is under Israel's complete control. But the Palestinians have no right to vote in that country while the settlers not only can vote but have all the advantages of citizenship. If this does not offend the liberal conscience, I don't know what will.
10
The so-called "occupation" is the consequence of Arabs losing the 1967 "Six Day War." Under the terms of the 1993 Oslo Agreement, the Palestinian National Authority was created to negotiate a two-state agreement with Israel. Yet, despite the 2000 and 2008 Israeli offers to return captured land in exchange for peace, ignored by Yasser Arafat and Mahmoud Abbas, without counter-offers, or initiatives of their own, Palestinians have done little to bring about the establishment of their own state.
In Israel, as in the U.S., all citizens can vote. Illegal immigrants cannot vote in either. If the Palestinians negotiated the creation of their own state, they would have the vote, rather than being saddled with Hamas, elected only one time in 2007, and Mahmoud Abbas, now in the 11th year of the four year term to which he was elected in 2005.
In Israel, as in the U.S., all citizens can vote. Illegal immigrants cannot vote in either. If the Palestinians negotiated the creation of their own state, they would have the vote, rather than being saddled with Hamas, elected only one time in 2007, and Mahmoud Abbas, now in the 11th year of the four year term to which he was elected in 2005.
1
The only solution is to return the West Bank to the Palestinians. However, I'm opposed to forcing the settlers to leave. But if they stay they should have to live under a Palestinian government, just as many Palestinians live under an Israeli government. The violence is the fringe of a basic injustice, which is the occupation of the West Bank by Israel.
2
The situation is a bit more complicated than you let on. First, the Palestinian Arabs were never sovereign in Judea and Samaria (it only became the "West Bank" in 1950 when Jordan tried to annex the areas it seized in 1948-49 and never considered creating a separate Palestinian state there). Second, the original PLO Charter from 1964 expressly waived any Palestinian rights to these areas then held by Jordan. Under those circumstances, in what sense are you using the word "return."
Finally, Arab violence against Jews long predates and has nothing to do with any 1967 "occupation." That's basic history.
Finally, Arab violence against Jews long predates and has nothing to do with any 1967 "occupation." That's basic history.
1
The NY TImes, labeled these attacks "bias attacks" on August 6th when it's Jerusalem bureau chief of reported on the Palestinian toddler burned to death and the fatal stabbing of 16-year-old Jewish girl at a gay pride march in Jerusalem.
Printing now that those attacks are terrorist acts, is progress, but the NYT board needs to take this further then reporting this as opinion piece by a Jewish scholar of Israeli Studies at Oxford University.
Printing now that those attacks are terrorist acts, is progress, but the NYT board needs to take this further then reporting this as opinion piece by a Jewish scholar of Israeli Studies at Oxford University.
5
just like British and American Muslim who leave their families and homes to fight for ISIS -- both are fanatics who disavow the sanctity of human lives. So common and so sad!
5
The author (purposely?) misses a couple of points:
The biggest support for such terrorism is, unfortunately, not from immigrants to Israel, in spite of her examples. Many of them aren't setters.
All political parties in Israel and the Prime Minister and President have roundly condemned the Jewish terrorism, and the government has acted swiftly to jail suspects.
The biggest support for such terrorism is, unfortunately, not from immigrants to Israel, in spite of her examples. Many of them aren't setters.
All political parties in Israel and the Prime Minister and President have roundly condemned the Jewish terrorism, and the government has acted swiftly to jail suspects.
4
Quite a change from Rabin's "they are foreign to Judaism, they are not ours" to the Likud and now Netanyahu position of regarding these guys as his political base.
5
Of course! Rabin's opinion of the leading Likudniks who gained power after years of uninterrupted Labour government, was not very different from those he expressed about other Jewish terrorists later on. Statement such as, "They are foreign to Judaism, they are not ours," and "We spit them out" applies equally well to Sharon, for example. Was not his choreographing the massacres in Sabra & Shatila by his friends The Phalange (Remember: The Kahan Commission "did not accept" the testimony of the Defense Minister. I.E. He lied - and was found personally responsible for the massacres. Just what we look for in a future Prime Minister.
3
If the settlers legally acquire the land that they occupy in the West Bank let them live there.
When permanent borders are established either by negotiation or imposed by the UN, (which started this problem in the first place in 1948 by giving Jews a state mostly at Palestinian expense to make recompense for what the Germans did), if the settlers find themselves on the Palestinian side of the border they will be Palestinians. Jewish Palestinians with all of the rights and obligations accorded to the other citizens of the State of Palestine. If they don't like it they can move.
Israel has Arabs, Palestine can have Jews.
Settlers,,,,,,,, enjoy!
When permanent borders are established either by negotiation or imposed by the UN, (which started this problem in the first place in 1948 by giving Jews a state mostly at Palestinian expense to make recompense for what the Germans did), if the settlers find themselves on the Palestinian side of the border they will be Palestinians. Jewish Palestinians with all of the rights and obligations accorded to the other citizens of the State of Palestine. If they don't like it they can move.
Israel has Arabs, Palestine can have Jews.
Settlers,,,,,,,, enjoy!
8
"...it is not enough for Jews to preach to Palestinians that moderates must speak out, murderers must be cast out, and incitement must be stopped without taking the same aggressive steps within their own communities."
This statement says it best. When supposedly "better" people start mimicking those they deem "worse," what difference remains?
This statement says it best. When supposedly "better" people start mimicking those they deem "worse," what difference remains?
18
The first paragraph of the article states that alleged instigators are currently being detained indefinitely.
This pretty much counts as "same aggressive steps" that Israel rightfully expects of Palestinians - and invariably takes against its own extremists. Doesn't it?
The difference that you failed to see is that, unfortunately, in the Arab world such criminals are celebrated as heroes and have streets and schools named after them.
This pretty much counts as "same aggressive steps" that Israel rightfully expects of Palestinians - and invariably takes against its own extremists. Doesn't it?
The difference that you failed to see is that, unfortunately, in the Arab world such criminals are celebrated as heroes and have streets and schools named after them.
I don't know who might be assuming, any more, that Israel stands on higher moral ground than its neighbors.
Many of the comments in support of Israel echo the lunatic extremism of this failed state built by force on other people's land. We hear the same denial of Israeli atrocities as one gets from the settler riff raff, even though the settlers have boasted of murdering the Palestinian child by setting him on fire. It's astonishing and repugnant. As a Jew, I have to hold my nose around the supporters of this AWFUL terror state.
113
Please tell me how many Israelis actually condoned those actions? Again, I'm not justifying what was done, but that still doesn't give the Palestinians a reason to attack them either. Keep in mind that two wrongs don't make a right. The only difference is that Israelis don't condone extremists while Palestinians do. As for the claim on whose land it is, there were always Jews living in the West Bank for over a millennium. As a matter of fact, the original names of that land was Judea and Samaria. It wasn't even known as the West Bank until under Jordanian rule, which was the only time Jews weren't living there mainly because they were forced to leave. What's so interesting is that when Jordan had the West Bank, they didn't once offer a Palestinian state even though they could have by just the stroke of a pen, and the same goes for Egypt when having the Gaza Strip. Just to let you know, Israel legally got the West Bank after acquiring it and winning it in the Six Day War. Meanwhile, Jordan gave up on the land in 1988 and didn't want it back, which was probably because they didn't want to deal with the Palestinians again. More importantly, Israel did do a unilateral withdraw of the Gaza Strip only see a barrage of qassam rockets fired at them by Hamas, which shows why they can't do the same for the West Bank. Until there really will be peace, Israel shouldn't be forced to make such preconditions when they know what can happen right after.
1
The proposed state called Palestine is that "failed state" to be built partly on land of ancient Israel, re-created under UNGAR 181 in 1947. In the language of the Resolution, there were to be two states, "one Arab and one Jewish." In rejecting the Resolution, which Israel accepted, the Palestinians forfeit their own statehood, resting on the same Resolution re-establishing Israel. In such "one to the exclusion of the other" scenarios, Israel is just as entitled to be the "single-state," in the absence of Palestinian agreement to a two-state solution!
Terrorism against civilians in violation of the 1949 Geneva Conventions, is a war crime, but it is acceptable to Palestinian terrorists. Article 13 of the Hamas Covenant unequivocally rejects all forms of non-violent conflict resolution in favor of perpetual war against Israel. Article 7 calls for the genocide of all Jews, not limited to those in Israel; Article 32 brands any Palestinian who negotiates with Israel as a traitor to the cause. Read the complete text at: http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_centiury/hamas.asp
As a nation-state ember of the United Nations, Israel is entitled to an "inherent right to individual, or collective self-defense," as recognized by Article 51 of the United Nations Charter! A far better option would be a permanent cease-fire, to be followed by a negotiated tow-state solution, as originally envisioned by the U.N. Palestinians have yet to accept that formula for peace and independent statehood!
Terrorism against civilians in violation of the 1949 Geneva Conventions, is a war crime, but it is acceptable to Palestinian terrorists. Article 13 of the Hamas Covenant unequivocally rejects all forms of non-violent conflict resolution in favor of perpetual war against Israel. Article 7 calls for the genocide of all Jews, not limited to those in Israel; Article 32 brands any Palestinian who negotiates with Israel as a traitor to the cause. Read the complete text at: http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_centiury/hamas.asp
As a nation-state ember of the United Nations, Israel is entitled to an "inherent right to individual, or collective self-defense," as recognized by Article 51 of the United Nations Charter! A far better option would be a permanent cease-fire, to be followed by a negotiated tow-state solution, as originally envisioned by the U.N. Palestinians have yet to accept that formula for peace and independent statehood!
1
"several of the alleged instigators, currently being detained indefinitely, ..." Why doesn't the article mention that no one has been actually arrested and charged for the crime? It's been more than 30 days and eyewitnesses said they saw the killers go to a nearby settlement. Were the settlers there subject to interrogations and arrests like Palestinians face whenever Israeli Jews are victims of violence ostensibly by Palestinians? And what about the case of Mohammed abu Kdeir who was burned to death over a year ago. Three Israelis were arrested, but the trial has been in recess since early July. Why?
As for the hasbara line that the Palestinians glorify their killers and the Israelis pursue theirs you might examine this piece that I've written on the subject: https://electronicintifada.net/content/how-israel-honors-murderers-its-m...
As for the hasbara line that the Palestinians glorify their killers and the Israelis pursue theirs you might examine this piece that I've written on the subject: https://electronicintifada.net/content/how-israel-honors-murderers-its-m...
71
Stanley, those people are honored for other things that they did. Even when they did such actions, they were never thanked for them at the time either. However, they did give up on terrorist acts when the Israeli War of Independence was started and many Irgun members helped join the fight. By such logic, nobody should have anything named for them if they did something wrong in the past. Would you stop honoring George Washington for being a very arrogant general during the American Revolution or even attacking a group of Hessians on Christmas when both sides agreed to a truce that day to celebrate that holiday? What about Abraham Lincoln for arresting journalists at the time of the US Civil War without giving them a habeas corpus first, which is known as a preliminary hearing? Weren't presidents such as Harry Truman and Warren Harding once part of the KKK in which they shouldn't have been allowed to even consider running for president at all? In reality, nobody is perfect, but as long as they still aren't the same person they were then, they should be given a clean slate. Nevertheless, I don't find your link to be reliable considering that the Electronic Intifada has been known for having an anti-Israel bias and even rides numerous claims despite being debunked so many times.
Settlers are, by and large, ultra orthodox and believe that they have a right to the land they've stolen on the West Bank. Every secular Israeli I've ever met can't stand them and state they are the greatest obstacle to peace. Bibi courts them because without them, he's a dead duck.
It is way past time to call these vermin just what they are. A disgrace to one of the world's oldest religions and more. Of course, AIPAC will say it's ok.
It is way past time to call these vermin just what they are. A disgrace to one of the world's oldest religions and more. Of course, AIPAC will say it's ok.
202
All true. Let us also include terrorism the choke hold AIPAC has over Congress and especially the anti-American Republican Party.
7
Nobody stole any land. You can’t steal something from someone if it wasn’t theirs to begin with. That’s the propaganda of lefties. And vermin seems a little hard too.
3
Actually there are scores of non-religious Israelis who settled in the West Bank because the government offered them American-style living (most Israelis live in multi-family apartment buildings, with the inconveniences of communal living) in single homes with the Israeli army protecting them and with roads that separated them from their Palestinian neighbors. The Israeli government relied on those people creating "facts on the ground" to prevent return to the pre-1967 borders in possible future negotiations. Israelis living in the West Bank, in turn, hoped to win the lottery to leave those dwellings in future negotiations. No sane Israeli thought the situation would continue for 50 years. Alas, sanity lost, as it frequently does in the Middle East.
5
An interesting focus, given hundreds of thousands killed or displaced in Syria?
17
That's a ridiculous comment. NYT has run several articles about Syrian refugees in the last 24 hours. Do you think we should suddenly ignore all other violence?Or just the violence that you'd prefer to cover up because you sympathize with it?
4
When Arabs are killing tens of thousands of Arabs, they don't care. It is only news when Jews defend themselves against stone-throwers, Molotov bombers and other "palestinian" terrorists.
This article coincides with the 43rd anniversary of the Munich massacre of Israeli Olympic athletes. While Jewish terrorism is even more reprehensible than Arab terrorism, because as Rabin rightly said "this is not our way", the liberal media is to blame for making supporting Arab terrorism a trendy, liberal identifier. Had Arabs been interested in peace the whole phenomenon of "Jewish" terrorism" would never have emerged. Now the NY Times can continue its campaign of moral equivalence and let the mists of time slowly help the world forget 75 years of unabated terror against Israel.
30
It was Zionists who started the whole thing by stealing land that did not belong to them.
6
"Had Arabs been interested in peace the whole phenomenon of "Jewish" terrorism" would never have emerged."
When the Palestinians were indeed interested in peace, and when Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin worked indefatigably to achieve it, he was murdered by a Jewish terrorist.
When the Palestinians were indeed interested in peace, and when Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin worked indefatigably to achieve it, he was murdered by a Jewish terrorist.
6
"Had Arabs been interested in peace the whole phenomenon of "Jewish" terrorism" would never have emerged"
Palestine belongs to its indigenous people not the 20th century foreigners who have been ethnically cleansing it for 7 decades. eg. In 1918 , Ben Gurion & Y. Ben Zvi (PM for 2 decades & 2nd pres of Israel respectively) coauthored a history of Israel in which they agreed with professional historians that there was no exile of Jews from Roman Palestine in the 1st or 2nd century AD. They agreed that most of the populace (90%+) stayed in place and that a majority of them converted to Islam in the 7th century. It was only after the Palestinians revolted in 1929 &1936-39 against the loss of THEIR land to foreigners that these 2 premier Zionists decided that ethnic cleansing was needed & OK. Eg. In 1948 the Zionist militias ethnically cleansing 425 villages & 12 urban centers of their indigenous people creating 750,000 refugees. This evil as continued to this day.
As Shlomo Sand establishes in his intern`l best seller “The Invention Of The Jewish People” the 20th century colonists are mostly the descendants of converts to Judaism from the 200 BC-300 AD era around the Roman Empire ,when Judaism competed with Christianity for converts plus the conversion of the Khazars c750 AD that spawned the Ashkenazi who became the founding colonists in the 20th century. A 2013 DNA study: "Ashkenazi Jews do not stem from Hebrews" ttp://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1208/1208.1092.pdf.
Palestine belongs to its indigenous people not the 20th century foreigners who have been ethnically cleansing it for 7 decades. eg. In 1918 , Ben Gurion & Y. Ben Zvi (PM for 2 decades & 2nd pres of Israel respectively) coauthored a history of Israel in which they agreed with professional historians that there was no exile of Jews from Roman Palestine in the 1st or 2nd century AD. They agreed that most of the populace (90%+) stayed in place and that a majority of them converted to Islam in the 7th century. It was only after the Palestinians revolted in 1929 &1936-39 against the loss of THEIR land to foreigners that these 2 premier Zionists decided that ethnic cleansing was needed & OK. Eg. In 1948 the Zionist militias ethnically cleansing 425 villages & 12 urban centers of their indigenous people creating 750,000 refugees. This evil as continued to this day.
As Shlomo Sand establishes in his intern`l best seller “The Invention Of The Jewish People” the 20th century colonists are mostly the descendants of converts to Judaism from the 200 BC-300 AD era around the Roman Empire ,when Judaism competed with Christianity for converts plus the conversion of the Khazars c750 AD that spawned the Ashkenazi who became the founding colonists in the 20th century. A 2013 DNA study: "Ashkenazi Jews do not stem from Hebrews" ttp://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1208/1208.1092.pdf.
1
There is no evidence or let alone proof that any of the people mentioned in the article had anything to do with the incident
That said the article is nothing but a slander - and I am not sure why NYT publishes such a - to put is mildly - trash
That said the article is nothing but a slander - and I am not sure why NYT publishes such a - to put is mildly - trash
14
Crazy people with a God born complex /agenda are still crazy people with a God born complex / agenda - maybe its the heat of the desert that evaporates their critical thinking skills...?
13
Agreed about the craziness, but what of those born and raised in these
verdant States? Perhaps the desert inside their heads.
verdant States? Perhaps the desert inside their heads.
You say "But there has been little outcry in their communities. Settler rabbis and the leaders of American immigrant communities in the West Bank have either played down their crime or offered muted criticism." Really? There were condemnations from all across the political spectrum. Certainly no one will name a square after whoever did it.
14
Israel would be well served to vet foreign Jews prior to granting them residency let alone citizenship.
A terrorist is a terrorist.
In many senses the stakes are too high.
A terrorist is a terrorist.
In many senses the stakes are too high.
19
It is neither anti-Semitic nor anti-Zionist to call these terrorists out. I am a Jew, I am a Zionist and I am ashamed of the violations of Jewish law perpetrated by these hateful people. We are called to make peace in the land and with our neighbors, and they incite only hatred and violence. I'm heartened to learn that the Israeli government is calling them to task.
110
However, those people you speak of only represent a small fringe group that isn't even accepted by their own country yet Palestinian extremists are almost welcomed by their own people and even places named after them.
2
The original Zionist goal was a civil secular ethnic culturally Jewish socialist country or land that was safe for the Jews. Instead of a country that was primarily legally forcibly exclusively for Jews. America with 40% of the world's 16 million Jews is the fulfillment of the Zionist dream. While Israel with another 40% of the Jewish community when given a choice between being Jewish or democratic chose to be Jewish.
3
Another example of why religious extremism of any faith is among the largest threats to civilization today.
148
American Jews grow up in an ignorant society that sees no shades of grey. Palestinians are primarily portrayed as terrorists in the media and once you discount their humanity they can be treated as sub human.
100
And you know this--because? I denounce terrorism in the mIddle east whether it is Israeli or Arab. That's what I learned in my home and my community and from my Israeli relatives. I'd say that a person who writes what you just did is someone who grew up in an ignorant society that sees no shades of grey. Perhaps you should study a little history and find out why your country's policy toward Jewish refugees in the 1930's was summed up by the motto "One is too many."
Bravo for your moral clarity.
Religious nationalism is highly problematical and its fear-mongering is often used to demonize others and justify injustice. Those American youth who find meaning in the settler movement are not so different than the misguided Muslims who send up assisting ISIS. The tribalistic and almost cult-like psychology is similar.
NYC and national US elected officials treat Israel (and its fractious government) as sacrosanct. As long as criticizing the pathological aspects of Israeli society is taboo, our own leaders will remain enablers, dupes and stooges. You can be pro-Israel and pro-Palestinian. To be pro-human, we must be both.
Religious nationalism is highly problematical and its fear-mongering is often used to demonize others and justify injustice. Those American youth who find meaning in the settler movement are not so different than the misguided Muslims who send up assisting ISIS. The tribalistic and almost cult-like psychology is similar.
NYC and national US elected officials treat Israel (and its fractious government) as sacrosanct. As long as criticizing the pathological aspects of Israeli society is taboo, our own leaders will remain enablers, dupes and stooges. You can be pro-Israel and pro-Palestinian. To be pro-human, we must be both.
47
It's only partly religious nationalism. It's mostly ethnic nationalism, which is why the settler movement and its supporters can justly be compared with nativist and white supremacist movements is Europe and the US.
2
"'[T]hey are foreign to Judaism, they are not ours,' thundered Mr. Rabin."
One hears that sort of thing often...the this-is-not-who-we-are routine.
It might make you feel better, but don't be surprised when the rest of us aren't fooled.
When you find yourself saying this-is-not-who-we-are all the time, guess what: this is who you are.
One hears that sort of thing often...the this-is-not-who-we-are routine.
It might make you feel better, but don't be surprised when the rest of us aren't fooled.
When you find yourself saying this-is-not-who-we-are all the time, guess what: this is who you are.
36
Seems I've heard this many times from Muslims after countless barbaric terrorist acts. Is that who they are?
I will give this article to my 15 year old son who has just begun reading a book by Norman Finkelstein. If Mr Finkelstein had been quoted in the article he would have made it very clear that this is not a new phenomenon and it is far too late to "nip it in the bud." It needs to be pulled out by the roots.
22
Lets not forget those other closer-to-home 'Liberals' who are "defending liberalism from itself" like Bill Maher and Sam Harris who have stated that Islam is an intrinsically evil entity and make fun of Arabs as violent or childish. Let's be careful who we let define themselves as liberal.
11
Appointing oneself as the decider of who is liberal seems oxymoronic.
1
I have heard Bill Maher's father was a Muslim Arab. (There are Coptic Arabs, Christian Arabs, Sunni Arabs, Shia Arabs.....Bill is probably trying to find out his family tree).
1
The problem with the Jewish Settler Movement, especially those who relocate from The United States is they arrive with a pre-conceived notion that they are going to build a Greater Israel based on their belief of what the ancient land of Judea was & so are acting to fulfill the prophecy for the return of the Jewish Messiah.
Since their premise is based on their understanding of biblical stories, they have the belief that G-d is on their side. That makes them infallible.
Their premise & belief are delusional. As long as they get support from American Jewish organizations (& others) & tacit backing by Israel, they will do much to hinder any peace efforts.
These people are hateful racists whose zealously promote their agenda through whatever means at their disposal, violating Jewish principles.
The main problem of the concept of a Greater Israel, no matter the historical reference; is twofold. First, it doesn't care that the land already has a long existing population of Palestinians on these lands. Second, the only legitimate solution to the conflict is to go back to the vote by the United Nations in 1948, creating two states in this narrow strip of land.
All parties, The Israeli Government, Jewish settlers, The Palestinian Authority, the Palestinian population & all of the surrounding Arab governments need to set aside their claims beyond the pre-1967 borders, accept the presence of both the Palestinians & Israelis & work towards a lasting peace which is everyone's interests.
Since their premise is based on their understanding of biblical stories, they have the belief that G-d is on their side. That makes them infallible.
Their premise & belief are delusional. As long as they get support from American Jewish organizations (& others) & tacit backing by Israel, they will do much to hinder any peace efforts.
These people are hateful racists whose zealously promote their agenda through whatever means at their disposal, violating Jewish principles.
The main problem of the concept of a Greater Israel, no matter the historical reference; is twofold. First, it doesn't care that the land already has a long existing population of Palestinians on these lands. Second, the only legitimate solution to the conflict is to go back to the vote by the United Nations in 1948, creating two states in this narrow strip of land.
All parties, The Israeli Government, Jewish settlers, The Palestinian Authority, the Palestinian population & all of the surrounding Arab governments need to set aside their claims beyond the pre-1967 borders, accept the presence of both the Palestinians & Israelis & work towards a lasting peace which is everyone's interests.
20
I'm not concerned with Jewish organizations, which at the time of the creation of the state of Israel, represented the sentiments of most American Jews. Those organizations, which support Israeli government policy uncritically, no longer represent most of us. In any case, AIPAC is not the problem. The problem is those American politicians who support Israeli aggrandizement, no matter what the cost to the Palestinians. Some of those politicians (like Schumer) are Jewish. Most of them are not.
It is time for America to stop supporting Israel. Israel is not America's friend.
2
Doesn't there seem to be something over the top in this piece? Even the most liberal people, in other societies, don't engage in this level of public self-flagellation over the terrorist attacks of the very few. If Jews really have a right to exist as humans with a state in the real world, that state can be allowed to deal with these "errant weeds" without unique and disproportionate public hysteria. And the context does matter. The massive level of ongoing barbarism throughout the Middle East, including that directed against Israel, objectively deserves any attention given to this type of angst. If it had gotten more such attention, and the West had finally resolved to deal with the problem, much of the chaos consuming the Middle East, and now sweeping into Europe, could have been prevented.
38
I agree as far as the 'errant weeds' go. Every country has them. This should not make us lose sight of the basic injustice - the occupation of the West Bank by Israel.
3
Kurds don't have a state of their own. Neither do the Basque. Jews can exist without a state of their own. Of course it would be better if the Palestinian people and the Zionists came to an agreement to either coexist peacefully in one state or to live apart, with the Zionists in a Jewish nation, much like how ISIS is carving out an Islamic state.
1
Though I applaud this article, I'm afraid that the emphasis on the terrorism aspect obscures the point that the whole settlement enterprise is land theft pure and simple and rotten to the core in its fascistic nationalism. If this were the 1800s, I suppose it would be in keeping with the zeitgeist of the times. But its not, and the only comparable present instance is Putin's theft of Crimea. And now with the appointment of Danny Danon, a spokesperson for the annexation movement in Israel and someone who makes Marine Le Pen look like a humanitarian, as Israel's envoy at the UN, annexation and the attendant ethnic cleansing, seem just a matter of time.
151
I am curious if this ties in with the Birthright trips many American kids participate in. Thats not a judgement. Its a question. Hope that doesn't offend anyone.
6
What do you think the tie could possibly be?
The birthright trips encourage positive Jewish identity, not terrorism. Are you trying to make a misguided point that being a proud Jew makes someone a terrorist?
The birthright trips encourage positive Jewish identity, not terrorism. Are you trying to make a misguided point that being a proud Jew makes someone a terrorist?
3
Birthright Israel is not a political group, and they were made to help Jews living in the US and a few other countries tour Israel for free especially if it's their first time.
The only birthright trips I'm aware of are for the secular Jews, not the ultrareligious ones. I think the idea is to spark a flame of interest where there might have only been a spark before.
bravo, Little Bear. The head in the sand posture of "good Jews" becomes a problem for any of us with memories of what that same attitude in Germany and the world allowed Hitler to do. We lacked the moral courage to oppose evil. Now 'good Jews" face the same challenge, and hopefully they will find the moral courage to speak up.
10
The entire premise of this article - that Israel consists mainly of native born Jews who were born in Israel or recent ancestors were born in Israel except for some American "settlers" who are disproportionately radical - is fundamentally mistaken. Almost the entire population of Israeli Jews are imperial settlers from other lands: America, UK, Europe, Australia, throughout the middleast, and elsewhere. This is the foundational principle of the nation state of the Jewish people (Israel); that if you are a Jew as defined by Jewish religious law, then you are eligible to move to Israel and become a citizen. In this sense, where someone was born is of no relevance in Israel. All that matters is that you were born a Jew. The fact that these Jews were born in the USA doesn't make them less Israeli because they were Israel once they were born of a Jewish mother.
8
Cue the attacks that will be coming your way.
"Imperial settlers from other lands" Really? Over a million Jews were forced to leave Arab countries in the 1940's, 50's and beyond. Iraq, Iran, Syria, Uzbekistan, Kurdistan, Yemen, Libya, Egypt, Ethiopia, Syria, Morocco, Algeria, Tunis, to name a few. Those who survived centuries of government sanctioned massacres were expelled with nothing but the clothes on their backs. They literally walked across the desert to reach Israel, the only country to provide them a homeland. These are the people who vote right wing in Israel because of their experience of persecution at the hands of Arab governments. Without Israel, these cultures, which go back over a thousand years, would have been destroyed without a trace. Israel offered a refuge. This is not to excuse the fanatic west bank settlers who commit terrorism. They should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. But when I hear the term "imperial settlers" I realize how little the world understands the many layers and nuances of Israeli society. It will take some time for the society to trust the world, to believe that they can rely on anyone else except themselves to survive. Israel is not simply a society of entitled Anglos. It is a society of laws and free press, and there are many, many Israelis who work tirelessly (and under the radar) to improve relations with the West Bank and to bring light to the conditions of the Palestinians. Maybe the next NYT editorial can look at that side of the equation.
1
@Kali -- But they all hang on to their U.S. passports (and probably those of EU countries and Australia as well). Nice to have it both ways, isn't it?
2
This is yellow journalism at its worst. But it's sure to sell more newspapers. The saddest part is that it will ultimately deflect, rather than focus, attention onto a serious issue.
4
What is so tragic is that articles like this are so very rare in the US. There is a madness in the Settlements that no one has addressed since Rabin was assassinated. Since then it has become instiitutionalised in Israel. It's only a matter of time before it becomes the real threat to Israel's existence and the narrative it uses to deceive ignorant Americans. What then?
41
Horrible things happen in all countries and by all peoples. And they are of course very wrong and must be aired out and stopped. But to focus on the Jewish people and Israelis like this article does is frankly biased to say the least, when such occurrences are rare, and when so many atrocities and wars have been committed or caused by Arab nationalists/extremists and Islamists in at least the last 65 years. Unfortunately this bias is part and parcel of the European left these days who, to put it mildly, are morally confused. (Unfortunately, the NYTimes has been going in that direction also. And this is coming from a guy on the left (not corporate media "left" like the NY Times).) I am sure the NY Times and the author of this article got great pleasure from juxtaposing the words "terrorist" and "Israeli" in the heading. Sad and disgraceful. No diff. than Fox News' antics.
23
Hirschhorn asserts that all available evidence suggests Jewish terrorists were responsible for the murder of the 18 month old Palestinian baby. Yet, the linked article does not support that claim. The evidence is some Hebrew graffiti and a Star of David scribbled nearby and an eyewitness claim to have seen two masked men. That's hardly an airtight case and any objective observer would have to conclude that, for the moment, all options remain open as to the perpetrators' identity.
What is actually noteworthy about this piece, though, is that in the more than two decades since the massacre by Baruch Goldstein, how few incidents there have been of Jewish terrorism. Perhaps that's why any suggestion that a Jew committed such an act is instantly newsworthy, unlike the daily overt incitement to racial hatred (with consequent murderous results) that ooze from the Palestinian Territories. Another stark difference is the official reactions: each incident of Jewish terrorism is denounced unequivocally across the Israeli political spectrum. Would that the PA reacted similarly, but they don't: they honor their "martyrs" and pay their families.
What is actually noteworthy about this piece, though, is that in the more than two decades since the massacre by Baruch Goldstein, how few incidents there have been of Jewish terrorism. Perhaps that's why any suggestion that a Jew committed such an act is instantly newsworthy, unlike the daily overt incitement to racial hatred (with consequent murderous results) that ooze from the Palestinian Territories. Another stark difference is the official reactions: each incident of Jewish terrorism is denounced unequivocally across the Israeli political spectrum. Would that the PA reacted similarly, but they don't: they honor their "martyrs" and pay their families.
17
Thank you for this comment. I also have wondered if it is so sure that this act was perpetrated by Jews. Jews would have to be stupid to write in Hebrew about why this was done. It is not altogether unlikely that Arabs who can write Hebrew did this and put up Stars of David with the screed. Just Hebrew writing and a symbol makes this a deed done by Jews? Maybe not.
The author is right to condemn extremism. However, her question towards the end asking where all the op-eds are condeming Jewish extremism indicates she is straining to condemn as broadly as possible, facts be damned. The op-eds she calls for were all over the place, in all sorts of newspapers (including this one), by everyone across the religious and political spectrum, including the leaders of right-wing parties and Orthodox rabbinic organizations.
We need to stamp out extremism but we do not need to tar an entire community, especially when the accusation is simply false.
We need to stamp out extremism but we do not need to tar an entire community, especially when the accusation is simply false.
13
While I disagree with Israel's settler policy, it was supported by the voters in the last election. Israelis are afraid and rightly so, with Iran supporting Hamas and Hezbollah, and Saudi Arabia an even bigger problem. When a Jewish terrorist commits a heinous act like the one in Duma, what happens? Nine suspects are arrested nine days later. Netanyahu expressed remorse. Every time a Palestinian terrorist kills an Israeli, the West Bank erupts with joy and promises of more dead Jews. For the author of this article to come close to a moral equivalent is most disturbing.
20
Your comment helps explain why settler violence exists. You're justifying it in a particularly disgusting manner.
16
When was he justifying that? Did you actually read that comment, freespeachlover? Nowhere did Errol say that the Israeli government condones such actions by their own people. Meanwhile, the PA does almost nothing to stop extremists on their end but rather applaud them for doing so. The claims that the Palestinians condones actions done by extremists on their end isn't a lie, it's been found to be a fact, and Hamas celebrates this by handing out candy. I have never seen that being done on the Israeli side.
4
These terrorists are like the terrorists born on American and European soil...they are the children of fundamentalist immigrant parents who never should have been allowed to emigrate in the first place, but were allowed to do so out of political correctness.
There is no difference between fundamentalist religious fanatics. None, but there are a lot more Muslims than Jews, so there are a lot more Muslim terrorists...none should be welcome in any civilized country.
There is no difference between fundamentalist religious fanatics. None, but there are a lot more Muslims than Jews, so there are a lot more Muslim terrorists...none should be welcome in any civilized country.
11
Terrorism is an old tradition in Israel; the state was founded on it. From the murderous havoc wreaked by Lehi (aka the Stern Gang) and Irgun (whose leaders included future President Menachem Begin) and their perpetrating of the massacre at Deir Yassin in 1948, through the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin after his signing of the Oslo Accords, down to the small-scale but deadly campaigns of terror waged by the present-day so-called "settler movement", and the wholesale destruction of Palestinian villages and the daily brutal humiliations suffered by Palestinians forced to pass through military checkpoints merely to get to work-- if they are lucky enough to have jobs-- terrorism directed at Palestinians, whether individual or state-sponsored, is as Israeli as dancing the hora.
It is therefore perpetually and bitterly bemusing to hear the howls of Israeli outrage when the Palestinian people turn to the likes of Hamas and Hizbollah to seek justice, and when the crude rockets begin to land once more in Israeli towns. Israel seems to understand nothing about the laws of karma. You want the Palestinians to abandon Hamas and Hizbollah? Give them a reason to. You say you want peace? Give the Palestinian people justice. Give them their civil rights. Give them reason to hope. Until and unless that day finally comes, the conflict will continue, and Israelis and Palestinians alike will ultimately drown together in a sea of fire and blood.
It is therefore perpetually and bitterly bemusing to hear the howls of Israeli outrage when the Palestinian people turn to the likes of Hamas and Hizbollah to seek justice, and when the crude rockets begin to land once more in Israeli towns. Israel seems to understand nothing about the laws of karma. You want the Palestinians to abandon Hamas and Hizbollah? Give them a reason to. You say you want peace? Give the Palestinian people justice. Give them their civil rights. Give them reason to hope. Until and unless that day finally comes, the conflict will continue, and Israelis and Palestinians alike will ultimately drown together in a sea of fire and blood.
241
I wonder why the Palestinians and Yasser Arafat didn't just found a Palestinian State on the West Bank and Gaza in 1964 with the founding of the organization? After all, the West Bank and Gaza were in Arab hands between 1948 and 1967. What was the PLO founded to do?
15
@This Old Man -- The West Bank was under Jordanian occupation and Gaza under Egyptian. Both those countries wanted to use the displaced Palestinians as weapon against Israel.
2
Although I do agree with you on what you say about Irgun, that still doesn't justify the attacks done by Hamas. Many of the security checkpoints were placed in response to such terrorist attacks. I really suggest you try looking at the causes rather than the effects. At first Israel didn't want to use checkpoints, but the terrorists attacks proved that they needed them, plus the Geneva Peace Convention sees them as both justified and reasonable for them to have them. The only way to truly make peace between the Israelis and Palestinians is for them to stop supporting groups such as Hamas, Fatah, and Hezbollah. If you're talking about civil rights, you do know that the West Bank, Gaza Strip, and even Golan Heights are not officially part of Israel, they are disputed territories, but Israel is willing to give up these lands as long as they know that peace will be made and no attacks will be coming from them either. One other thing, the Oslo Agreement places the responsibility of the Palestinian people on the PA, not on the Israeli PM and Knesset. Also, I highly doubt that most Palestinians actually support the terrorist groups. Let's not forget that when Hamas first came to power in 1987, they staged a coup and even killed anyone they felt presented a threat to them, and I won't be surprised if they threatened to kill anyone who wouldn't vote for them. Overall, if you want to free Palestine, then you must free it from Hamas and make it a real democracy.
1
These Jewish terrorists are reprehensible. They are also completely disowned by the mainstream Israeli (and foreign) Jewish community. One can also count the number of major incidents over the last 20 years on one hand.
In contrast, there have been countless acts of violent Palestinian terrorism, many of which aren't even reported by the New York Times, and which are never disowned by the mainstream Palestinian community.
The whole point of Herzlian Zionism was to make Jews a "normal people" in a "normal state." Unfortunately, anti-Zionist papers like the New York Times continuing holding Jews to a higher standard of behavior than anyone else. Feh.
In contrast, there have been countless acts of violent Palestinian terrorism, many of which aren't even reported by the New York Times, and which are never disowned by the mainstream Palestinian community.
The whole point of Herzlian Zionism was to make Jews a "normal people" in a "normal state." Unfortunately, anti-Zionist papers like the New York Times continuing holding Jews to a higher standard of behavior than anyone else. Feh.
17
Yet another article about Jewish extremist but nary a condemnation of those young Arabs who are" just throwing a few stones". Israel condemns the terrorist acts, arrests and sentences perpetrators for their crimes. The Arabs are always given carte blanche because we are not allowed to consider them civilized and responsible for their actions. Instead they dance in the street and pass out candy to the kids when Israelis are murdered. They did this after 9/11 too but the video quickly disappeared lest we offend out "Arab friends".
I am sick and tired of the double standard. The Palestinians would not be in their present position if they acted in a civilized manner. Many used to work in Israel on a daily basis but that stopped when terrorists entered with the workers and caused death and mayhem. For protection Israel has mostly closed the border but allows medical visas. Now terrorists are applying falsely for medical exceptions too. Food and household goods pass into the Palestinian territories on a daily basis. If the militant groups seize the goods for themselves that is not Israel's fault. Since the Arabs militants want nothing less than the eradication of Israel there is really nothing to discuss with them. They had their chance over and over again. The saying is,"Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity."
I am sick and tired of the double standard. The Palestinians would not be in their present position if they acted in a civilized manner. Many used to work in Israel on a daily basis but that stopped when terrorists entered with the workers and caused death and mayhem. For protection Israel has mostly closed the border but allows medical visas. Now terrorists are applying falsely for medical exceptions too. Food and household goods pass into the Palestinian territories on a daily basis. If the militant groups seize the goods for themselves that is not Israel's fault. Since the Arabs militants want nothing less than the eradication of Israel there is really nothing to discuss with them. They had their chance over and over again. The saying is,"Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity."
20
Unfortunately, what the author mentions is irrelevant to what is going on here. It doesn't matter where these Jewish extremists are coming from, it's the fact that the Israeli government along with their people are calling them out and taking action on this. They are not just condemned, but also arrested, convicted, and sentenced for their actions by their own country. When was the last time the PLO actually did this to extremists on their end on a normal basis? The answer is probably never. The most they ever get is a slap on the wrist or a house arrest that will hardly ever be enforced. As a matter of fact when Hamas or any other Palestinian extremists kills innocent Israeli civilians, their people are actually celebrating this and even naming places after them, and I have never seen this on the Israeli side. Overall, I'm not saying that actions by Jewish extremists are justified or something else, but I do know that they are always being called out while that's almost never the case on the Palestinian side. Just recently, I did hear about some Palestinians in the Gaza Strip that were killed for protesting the actions done by Hamas, and they were probably killed for being Israeli collaborators. Now that I am thinking about it, Hezbollah as a number of Iranian roots, so by that logic I can say that Iran breeds terrorists as well even though that has already been found to be proven true not to mention Iran supports numerous Islamic terrorist groups.
15
Zionism 2015-defending the indefensible.
4
Virtually every day or every week for the past 50 years, the NY Times runs an anti-Israel story. If they've ever run a positive Israel story in that period, I haven't seen it. So the question is: Why is the NY Times so obsessively hostile to Israel? Is it because the ownership and so many of the writers are liberal Jews?
16
Israel portrays itself as one of the most ethical nations in the world and it and its supporters hate when the world sees that the King has no clothes.
Israel, like every other country in the world must own up to its failures.
Israel, like every other country in the world must own up to its failures.
4
Right you are, Mr Krieger.
1
The most interesting item in the piece is the extreme illogic of the Jewish Settler "liberals" mentioned in the piece. The first time I ever experienced this dissonance was sometime back in the late 1990s or early 2000's when I first heard Alan Dershowitz give his pro-hardline Israel position on TV. The same fire eating liberal on all other topics under the sun, now he was dead set for oppression, in this and only this case. It is no doubt the same intellectual framework that animates the Rabbi mentioned in the article. If someone would clearly explain how this is coherent to me, like I am a 2 year old, I would absolutely appreciate it. How can it not be obvious to any "liberal" that some bunch of olive farmers and goat herders should not be made to pay as compensation with their land and heritage, for crimes committed by others a continent away, however heinous those crimes are? How can these "liberals" (some of them now settlers themselves) not see the parallels between what is happening and what happened to say, native Americans when some of their own ancestors moved into the American continent? I have been waiting for almost a couple of decades to hear a good answer ...
42
It is likely that the Israeli terrorists from the U.S. became more fanatic once they settled in Israel. There is a long tradition of Zionist violence and terrorism in Palestine and later Israel, going back to Joseph Trumpeldor and
Vladimir Jabotinsky in the 1920s. An unknown Jewish terrorist murdered Chaim Arsoloff on the beach in Tel-Aviv in the 1930s. The Stern gang assassinated Lord Moyne, the Britisih diplomat in Jerusalem in 1944. The Irgun blew up the King David Hotel in 1946, killing 91 civil servants. The Stern gang murdered Count Folke Bernadotte, the UN mediator in 1949, Dr Rudolf Kastner was murdered by Jewish fanatics in the 1950s. It goes on and on.
Vladimir Jabotinsky in the 1920s. An unknown Jewish terrorist murdered Chaim Arsoloff on the beach in Tel-Aviv in the 1930s. The Stern gang assassinated Lord Moyne, the Britisih diplomat in Jerusalem in 1944. The Irgun blew up the King David Hotel in 1946, killing 91 civil servants. The Stern gang murdered Count Folke Bernadotte, the UN mediator in 1949, Dr Rudolf Kastner was murdered by Jewish fanatics in the 1950s. It goes on and on.
28
This is exactly why I'm not surprised by Schumer's and Cardin's apparent loyalty to Israel. Once a Zionist, always a Zionist. Jewish lives have been deemed to be more valuable than non-Jewish ones. Whoever thought they would ever see anything like this?
18
This is why I am so agnostic. Blame the clever that started to talk about god to gain power over the fearful weak humans that cannot stand the idea of getting eaten by worms. And you know what is the ultimately situational irony? The fact that we are killing each other to defend our different ways of representing a ghost that is supposed to save us.
5
What a surprise. In addition to the billions of U.S. taxpayer dollars given every year to Israel, we also have a fifth column, AIPAC, which is an agent of a foreign government, Israel, funneling money to Israel and enforcing political pressure. I look forward to the now certain spectacle of seeing Israel and Netanyahu utterly failing in their meddling interference in U.S. foreign policy regarding Iran. The clear goal of Israel, Netanyahu, and AIPAC was a war--a war the U.S. would wage on their behalf.
18
Foreign fighters--those who travel to a conflict their nation is not involved in--have long been some of the most violent, having little intrinsic tie to the local population or culture. That Jews radical enough to leave the US for a settlement in the West Bank are radical is not news.
5
What is the news or timely about this this article?
Yes, there was a fire that in which a child was kiled that seems to be arson and no one has been charged. We don't have anyone taking credit for it and no has been charged. The four people named in the article are being held on some indeterminate basis, but not charged in connection with the fire.
The rest of the article is about what exactly? Where is the terrorism? Oh yes, that happened 20 or 30 years ago. Oh, and people who live in settlements and express their belief that they have a right to. That's the Israeli terrorism.
Right, got it, NYT
Yes, there was a fire that in which a child was kiled that seems to be arson and no one has been charged. We don't have anyone taking credit for it and no has been charged. The four people named in the article are being held on some indeterminate basis, but not charged in connection with the fire.
The rest of the article is about what exactly? Where is the terrorism? Oh yes, that happened 20 or 30 years ago. Oh, and people who live in settlements and express their belief that they have a right to. That's the Israeli terrorism.
Right, got it, NYT
6
So sad. Lets face it - who in their right mind would move from the U.S. to the West Bank, knowing they are putting themselves and their children at grave risk? These mentally challenged people are then given weapons to defend themselves! Maybe it is the free house provided indirectly by U.S. taxpayers? Maybe it is religious fanaticism? I would withdraw the IDF and let them fend for themselves. When convicted [if ever...] they are usually sentenced for 10-15 years and when no one is looking, are released after 2-3 years.
10
I sit here comfortably in the US, a proud American who happens to be Jewish. And, so I expect to be told to quiet down because I am not on the ground in Israel.
I would love to be quiet. But, the problem is that Israel's leaders sure make a lot of noise, saying that they speak on my behalf and that their country is my true home.
So, I will indeed speak on my own behalf (and I will inevitably be called a "kapo" and various and sundry other slurs).
With that in mind, two points:
(1) A terrorist is a terrorist is a terrorist. Jews can be terrorists just as much as the next group of people. There is never any excuse to burn down a house and kill innocent babies. Ever.
Palestinians are actual living, breathing, human beings, with lives and homes, many of whom have lived in these lands for generations. Denying any of these facts is historically incorrect and inhumane.
(2) Ever since I was a little boy in Hebrew School, I was told that Israel had to occupy the West Bank and Gaza because of security reasons; "We were attacked in '67."
Okay. But, as the article notes, the settlements are places where thousands of people "are able to enjoy "a cup of Starbucks coffee in their boxy aluminum prefab houses or in the mansions of settlement suburbia." Security, my tuchus.
And, those Americans who left the US to become ultra-nationalist extremists in Israel? Good riddance. You may have been American, but you clearly didn't understand America.
I would love to be quiet. But, the problem is that Israel's leaders sure make a lot of noise, saying that they speak on my behalf and that their country is my true home.
So, I will indeed speak on my own behalf (and I will inevitably be called a "kapo" and various and sundry other slurs).
With that in mind, two points:
(1) A terrorist is a terrorist is a terrorist. Jews can be terrorists just as much as the next group of people. There is never any excuse to burn down a house and kill innocent babies. Ever.
Palestinians are actual living, breathing, human beings, with lives and homes, many of whom have lived in these lands for generations. Denying any of these facts is historically incorrect and inhumane.
(2) Ever since I was a little boy in Hebrew School, I was told that Israel had to occupy the West Bank and Gaza because of security reasons; "We were attacked in '67."
Okay. But, as the article notes, the settlements are places where thousands of people "are able to enjoy "a cup of Starbucks coffee in their boxy aluminum prefab houses or in the mansions of settlement suburbia." Security, my tuchus.
And, those Americans who left the US to become ultra-nationalist extremists in Israel? Good riddance. You may have been American, but you clearly didn't understand America.
56
Thank you for writing this important article. Finally, a writer who really gets the dissonance--using American rhetoric for Israel shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the situation.
7
In California, Jewish organizations are pushing the Regents of the University of California to adopt the State Department’s definition of anti-Semitism. In an op-ed in the Pasadena Star-News, Thomas D. Elias wrote, “And if a protest employs a double-standard judging Israel differently from other countries, that’s anti-Semitic, too.”*
Israel routinely destroys the homes of Palestinians who commit violent acts against Israelis.
The odds that the Israeli government will destroy the homes of Jewish-Americans who live in Occupied Palestine and who commit violence acts against the Palestinians are zero.
Obviously, there is a double standard.
*(Elias, Thomas D. “Will UC Regents confront anti-Semitism?” Pasadena Star-News, August 25, 2015, page A9)
Israel routinely destroys the homes of Palestinians who commit violent acts against Israelis.
The odds that the Israeli government will destroy the homes of Jewish-Americans who live in Occupied Palestine and who commit violence acts against the Palestinians are zero.
Obviously, there is a double standard.
*(Elias, Thomas D. “Will UC Regents confront anti-Semitism?” Pasadena Star-News, August 25, 2015, page A9)
13
Irony indeed! This entire op-ed is spent criticizing the liberal Jewish Israeli/American settlers for not strongly condemning "Jewish terrorism", but not a word about the brutal 48-year-long (and counting) apartheid forced military occupation and oppression of Palestinians by all of Israel and its extremist right-wing "government" Glad am I to hear that Jewish-American settlers in the West Bank and Jerusalem are proud of having stood with African Americans during the Civil Rights Movement in the 1960s. This writer can attest to that because I covered that Movement as a journalist in Louisiana and Mississippi and saw Jewish Americans in marches, rallies, lunch counter sit-ins, picketing and as freedom riders in Greyhound buses. Jewish Americans were in the vanguard of that Movement, and some, as we all know, gave their lives in advocating freedom, justice and equality for African Americans. Participation of Jewish Americans in America's Civil Rights Movement exemplified the practice and holding to the morals and values of Judaism. But looking back now and having become somewhat knowledgeable of the ongoing brutal unlawful 48-year-long apartheid forced Israeli military occupation at gunpoint of Palestine's Gaza, East Jerusalem and the West Bank, I must ask the "liberal Jewish American settlers" in the West Bank and East Jerusalem: Whatever happened to your Judaism in Israel? Why not freedom, justice and equality for your neighbors, the Palestinians?
20
This isn't a Jewish problem. This is a human problem that crosses all religious, racial and ethnic borders. Why would anyone pretend that American Jews or people of any faith, race, religion, ethnic background or nationality is immune to justifiable criminal behavior?
We live in a society of laws that create a set of rules. We don't need to either condone or condemn. We need the vast majority of people to have trust in the law and the Justice system. Condemn or Condone isn't required. A fair system that has the trust and faith of the vast majority of citizens is required.
We live in a society of laws that create a set of rules. We don't need to either condone or condemn. We need the vast majority of people to have trust in the law and the Justice system. Condemn or Condone isn't required. A fair system that has the trust and faith of the vast majority of citizens is required.
1
I am not astounded by the American born Jewish terrorism in Israel. I am a long time subscriber of the NYT. I always wonder why they are so prompt to make negative comments on Palestinians and Muslims. It seems Muslims and the Palestinians are responsible for the Holocaust.....American Jews and their sympathesizer are displacing their anger and grudges on people who have no relationship with the Holocaust while maintaining good relationship with the people who are responsible for the crime.
I also wonder why American Jews have to settle in Israel and to displace more native people. To my knowledge Israel is a secular country. Given that Americal Jewish people are in a very privileged positions in the USA, why they have to live in Middle East. Just to displace More Palestnians from their native land!
If Israel is a secular country why Bible play so important role in that land and why American Jews are so eager to settle there by displacing native population.
I also wonder why American Jews have to settle in Israel and to displace more native people. To my knowledge Israel is a secular country. Given that Americal Jewish people are in a very privileged positions in the USA, why they have to live in Middle East. Just to displace More Palestnians from their native land!
If Israel is a secular country why Bible play so important role in that land and why American Jews are so eager to settle there by displacing native population.
13
You are sadly ill-informed. Israel is NOT a secular country It identifies itself as the JEWISH STATE. And you should know the importance of Jerusalem and that Jesus was a jewish carpenter.
Exactly. The evidence is in these comments. People are actually defending these acts. They can barely acknowledge them without "but..." followed by some racist comments about "Arabs" "Muslims" or "Palestinians." No wonder there are violent fanatics coming from the US to Israel.
4
One has to be Jewish to understand the rage we feel of being door mats for the anti-Semites of the world.Growing up in America most of us are law abiding citizens.There have been countless times that growing up & being confronted by Jew Baiters & Jew Haters, I held back from striking out in rage out of fear that I might end up in prison, which is as foreign to me as a Ham on rye.
I was taught that we are a lamp onto the world & each of us are responsible for the image we present to others. When jews break the law we are all condemned, for that is the world we live in.
These American Jewish settlers are foreign to me ,neither I or anyone I know would ever consider taking an innocent life. Golda Meir said it best when she signed a peace treaty with the great Sadat of Egypt. " I can forgive you for killing my children, but I can never forgive you for making us kill your children.
The Golda Meir's are still the greater majority in Israel & the World.What we desire is what all people of good faith desire is to live in peace, with God lighting our path.
I was taught that we are a lamp onto the world & each of us are responsible for the image we present to others. When jews break the law we are all condemned, for that is the world we live in.
These American Jewish settlers are foreign to me ,neither I or anyone I know would ever consider taking an innocent life. Golda Meir said it best when she signed a peace treaty with the great Sadat of Egypt. " I can forgive you for killing my children, but I can never forgive you for making us kill your children.
The Golda Meir's are still the greater majority in Israel & the World.What we desire is what all people of good faith desire is to live in peace, with God lighting our path.
14
When these so-called liberal settlers compare themselves with African-Americans, fighting for Civil Rights, that is a true symptom of true indoctrination. That happens in America and has been for generations with Israeli money. Sponsoring trips to Israel for Politicians and children alike, they have successfully concocted a story and ingrained it into the psyche of some American Jews that Israel, built on stolen occupied land is their homeland.
This is a calculated orchestrated plan in place for decades that is paying dividends where neither the mainstream American media nor any American politician from City Councils up to Congress dare say anything against Israel.
How else can one explain how the entirety of the Republican party and the vast majority of the Democratic party are lined in support of Israel no matter what?
This is a calculated orchestrated plan in place for decades that is paying dividends where neither the mainstream American media nor any American politician from City Councils up to Congress dare say anything against Israel.
How else can one explain how the entirety of the Republican party and the vast majority of the Democratic party are lined in support of Israel no matter what?
44
As David Ben-Gurion said once "When Israel has prostitutes and thieves we'll be a state just like any other" and I can add murders. In America from Jan.1 2015 to Sept.4 2015 there were 11345 homicides nation wide. On August 30 2015, the Syrian Network for Human Rights, a local monitoring group, estimated that 85,000 people were currently being held by the government in conditions that amount to enforced disappearance. But not a word in Western newspapers. Police in New York City say up to 4,000 people are sleeping on the streets and that there are at least 80 homeless encampments - a quarter of them so permanent they have furniture.Many homeless are taking cheap drugs, with heroin going for just $10 a bag and one expert saying: "There is an epidemic." America is 239 years old and not perfect, Israel is 67 years old also not perfect but continues to evolve just like every peace loving country.
16
“We’re not fighting against an enemy who plays by the same rules as we do,”
What do you mean by that, Shlomo Riskin? That 'the enemy' on whose land you are occupying won't burn a baby alive? Then yes, the rules are different. State sanctioned terrorism in the form of American taxpayers' unending largess to the state of Israel has got to stop, or at least be questioned. How is it that we continually and unquestioningly send billions of dollars every single solitary year to this tiny slip of a country, knowing that it is constantly encroaching on Palestinian land and herding Palestinians into ever smaller and densely populated open-air ghettos?! Does no other country on the planet deserve economic aid on the level of Israel? What does Israel do for America that we keep paying for its continuance? Israeli occupiers are the new-oppressed? Give me a break. Cognitive dissonance couldn't be any more dissonant, or profane.
What do you mean by that, Shlomo Riskin? That 'the enemy' on whose land you are occupying won't burn a baby alive? Then yes, the rules are different. State sanctioned terrorism in the form of American taxpayers' unending largess to the state of Israel has got to stop, or at least be questioned. How is it that we continually and unquestioningly send billions of dollars every single solitary year to this tiny slip of a country, knowing that it is constantly encroaching on Palestinian land and herding Palestinians into ever smaller and densely populated open-air ghettos?! Does no other country on the planet deserve economic aid on the level of Israel? What does Israel do for America that we keep paying for its continuance? Israeli occupiers are the new-oppressed? Give me a break. Cognitive dissonance couldn't be any more dissonant, or profane.
126
"What do you mean by that, Shlomo Riskin? That 'the enemy' on whose land you are occupying won't burn a baby alive?"
Unless you have some grotesque moral distinction between burning a person and shooting or blowing him up, this statement rings uncomfortably hollow.
Unless you have some grotesque moral distinction between burning a person and shooting or blowing him up, this statement rings uncomfortably hollow.
1
American-born Jewish terrorists aren't even a new phenomenon. Followers of Meir Kahane firebombed my family home here in Westchester County, NY, days after I was born (Nov. 1978), simply because we have an Arabic surname. We weren't the only ones targeted, either, but such domestic terrorism is obscure to most people. This kind of violence is bred, both at home and abroad, because some individuals get hooked on simplistic, scapegoating thinking such as ' The only good Arab is a dead one," as well as by an American political climate whose narrative had been that Israelis are the victims of villainous Arabs, who stand in the way of God's willed land deals. Things have been stagnant, if not even deteriorating, in my lifetime. Dehumanizing people is arson.
27
Why would an American Jew move to Israel? America is largely a safe, prosperous country with pretty good human rights protections and a low level of antisemitism. The only reasons I can think of are religious or ideological fervor. And, those sorts of people do tend to become terrorists more often than secular moderates.
As a secular American Jew I have no desire whatsoever to move to Israel. It's really hot, and there are a lot of disturbingly religious people there, and I'd have to learn Hebrew. Plus, eventually my descendants would lose American citizenship.
If I lived in Russia, or Ukraine or Ethiopia I'd probably be more interested.
As a secular American Jew I have no desire whatsoever to move to Israel. It's really hot, and there are a lot of disturbingly religious people there, and I'd have to learn Hebrew. Plus, eventually my descendants would lose American citizenship.
If I lived in Russia, or Ukraine or Ethiopia I'd probably be more interested.
53
I noticed that the Americans and others who have been moving into the West Bank are called "settlers," the same name Americans gave themselves as they stole the land that became the United States from the Native Americans who inhabited the continent before the "settlers" arrived, as if the land hadn't already been settled by the people who the newcomers were displacing.
Most Native Americans at that point knew this activity for what it was: a good old fashioned land grab and fought hard to prevent it, but they were outgunned by the "settlers" and the military force sent to protect them.
Perhaps the initial violence isn't this or that killing or stone throwing incident but the theft of a territory one settlement at a time until the whole is finally conquered. If that's the design and it appears it is, the followup might be to set up a "reservation" somewhere, maybe Gaza, and march the former inhabitants of the West Bank across Israel to the "reservation." It must be the proper way to do it, because that is how we did it. And now the land that became the United States is ours.
Most Native Americans at that point knew this activity for what it was: a good old fashioned land grab and fought hard to prevent it, but they were outgunned by the "settlers" and the military force sent to protect them.
Perhaps the initial violence isn't this or that killing or stone throwing incident but the theft of a territory one settlement at a time until the whole is finally conquered. If that's the design and it appears it is, the followup might be to set up a "reservation" somewhere, maybe Gaza, and march the former inhabitants of the West Bank across Israel to the "reservation." It must be the proper way to do it, because that is how we did it. And now the land that became the United States is ours.
45
it's what the "settlers" have in mind, all right ... and just as morally reprehensible as what our forefathers did ...
1
I applaud the New York Times for bringing forth a dangerous, growing, simmering menace coming to a boil. A new contingent of American-born terrorists! We have home-grown ISIS, Al Qaeda, Palestinians and now Jews! Heaven help us all ! Now before we decry all Jews are terrorists, please remove the wheat from the chaff. We have a bad tendency to generalize. We blame entire peoples for a few criminals. We blame the moderates who are unable to bring these shenanigans to a reckoning, never mind they themselves are threatened by these extremists. It is very obvious that these murderers scapegoat their religion. With these American born Jews they seem to be twisting the principles of our Democracy for their blighted cause. All we can now hope are some brave, wise, moderate Jewish voices with help from the Israeli Government to nip this terrorism in the bud. For starters, the settlement areas could be stopped and and grabbed land returned to the Palestinians. That would be killing two birds with one stone for the Israeli Government - stop this terrorism and jump-start the Peace process.
24
I agree with your sentiments but this is not "in the bud." It unfortunately has deep roots that go back to the founding of Israel when an earlier generation of Israeli terrorists used intimidation and murder to perform an ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from their homes and villages. I am not optimisitc but I do hold out hope that moderate voices will prevail in establishing a two-state solution that will permit each side to have a viable state that reverses the apartheid bantustans that the West Bank has been turned into. A vibrant ISrael and a vibrant Palestine would do so much good for the world.
There is zero moral equivalence between the one Israeli "terrorist" and the tens of thousands of Palestinian Hamas, Hezbollah, Al Aqsa Martyrs brigade, Popular resistance committees, Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine, Popular front for the Liberation of palestine, the PLO, etc. Thousands of Jews and Israeli civilians have been killed (official count, over 3,700) through the years. The ONE ISRAELI who clearly is a criminal, gets the NY Times press. How many of the Palestinian perpetrators have been brought to justice by the Palestinians or Arabs for committing these acts ? nearly Zero. Did Israel arrest the one perpetrator? Yes. How much funding to these Palestinian terrorist organizations get form nations? Billions. Are there any Israeli organizations that sponsor terrorism? No. Did Israel have a parade or name a street or give the Israeli's family who was arrested money? No. Do the Palestinian terror organizations do so? yes. Do the Palestinians train suicide bombers, target civilians purposefully, and fire munitions indiscriminately at civilians? Yes. Sara Yael Hirschhorn is a disgrace and is obviously a psychologically disturbed individual. Lastly, why does the NYTImes allow the one Israeli to be called a terrorist, yet hezbollah, hamas, etc, are called militants.
33
There is no mainstream Liberal media organ which equals the NY Times for its history of venomous and distorted reporting on the Arab-Israeli conflict.One has only to refer to the media watchdog CAMERA for a detailed list of all the Times reporting on Israel which were either outright lies or gross distortions. Like this absurd article. To compare the occasional acts of Jewish violence with the daily occurrences of arab attacks against Jews is, for the Times,par for the course. And it should be noted that til now there is no evidence on who exactly committed this crime. Furthermore, given the many instances of the arabs committing property crimes against arab homes, farms and mosques because they know the immediate reaction of the Liberal-left media in Israel is to immediately blame Jews before arab involvement is proven, the impartial observer can only withhold judgement until the actual perpertrators are under arrest.
10
You may wish to look at the death and injury numbers in the last couple decades relating to Palestinian-Israeli violence. In many conflicts, the ratio is about 20-1 but I've never seen it go below even 5-1, Palestinian deaths compared to Israeli deaths. If a single Israeli soldier is captured by a Palestinian, it is a serious terrorist incident, Israel goes into national mourning and it is international news. If 50 Palestinians, including women and children, are killed by Israel it hardly makes page 10 and is described as collateral damage. There is certainly a well documented double standard but it runs in the opposite way than described above.
7
Quantumhumter...You certainly have it right and I appreciate your comments.
Two wrongs don't make a right....However; the differences you proffer are manifest. I don't think Ms. Hirschhorn is disturbed...more that she is disturbing.
The Times should publish stories from the other side showing 6 year old Palestinian kids with toy guns in hand learning the Hamas recipe for continuing the never-ending conflict there. When Barak offered 97% of what the Palestinians wanted and Yasir Arafat turned him down (and had lots of money set aside courtesy of the Palestinian people), kind of difficult to negotiate.
There are mad men everywhere; just more of them in the Gaza strip and the West Bank
Two wrongs don't make a right....However; the differences you proffer are manifest. I don't think Ms. Hirschhorn is disturbed...more that she is disturbing.
The Times should publish stories from the other side showing 6 year old Palestinian kids with toy guns in hand learning the Hamas recipe for continuing the never-ending conflict there. When Barak offered 97% of what the Palestinians wanted and Yasir Arafat turned him down (and had lots of money set aside courtesy of the Palestinian people), kind of difficult to negotiate.
There are mad men everywhere; just more of them in the Gaza strip and the West Bank
4
Thank you, Ms. Hirschhorn, for an interesting and enlightening article.
It was interesting to note the number of people around the world who feel free to invoke the name of Lincoln in their political discourse. After reading this, I now know it is not just the crazies in the GOP. It's just an organized conservative mantra.
It was interesting to note the number of people around the world who feel free to invoke the name of Lincoln in their political discourse. After reading this, I now know it is not just the crazies in the GOP. It's just an organized conservative mantra.
12
Please stop using the word mantra incorrectly. Repeating a phrase doesn't make it a mantra any more than it does a Catholic prayer. MANTRAS ARE ALWAYS IN SANSKRIT.
The entire settlement movement is a gigantic terrorist act.
Imagine what Americans would call a group of foreigners from across the sea invading their land, tearing down entire villages and homes, displacing thousands of Americans and then putting up their own homes and flags on that property.
Imagine how Americans would respond to such action?
Who is the terrorist?
Imagine what Americans would call a group of foreigners from across the sea invading their land, tearing down entire villages and homes, displacing thousands of Americans and then putting up their own homes and flags on that property.
Imagine how Americans would respond to such action?
Who is the terrorist?
308
Salman, you have described the foundation of the United States perfectly. Unfortunately that means we have no moral authority to condemn Israeli colonists unless there's a statute of limitations on that original sin.
4
You do understand that you are describing the consequences of the European discovery of America, right?
The situation in Israel is exactly the reverse: it would be equivalent to the return of the indigenous inhabitants, the vast majority of whom had been previously expelled by conquerors.
The situation in Israel is exactly the reverse: it would be equivalent to the return of the indigenous inhabitants, the vast majority of whom had been previously expelled by conquerors.
3
You mean the exact thing the American Colonists did to the Native Americans? Are you saying the American Colonists were terrorists.
Also, the Arabs (there were no Palestinians then) declared war on Israel the day Israel declared independence. As Abba Eban said, a Palestinian complaining about the destruction to his village in 1948 is akin to the man who murders his parents and then begs the court for mercy because he's a poor orphan.
Also, the Arabs (there were no Palestinians then) declared war on Israel the day Israel declared independence. As Abba Eban said, a Palestinian complaining about the destruction to his village in 1948 is akin to the man who murders his parents and then begs the court for mercy because he's a poor orphan.
5
Terminology, they are not "settlers", they are "colonists". American settlers settle in northern New York, Jewish Americans traveling to the occupied territories are "colonists" taking other people's land.
162
I suspect the Iroquois and Algonquin tribes would not agree with your argument. You also don't seem to grasp the difference between citizenship (US) and ethnicity (the Jews). The Jews are the indigenous people of what is anachronistically called "historic Palestine" and a remnant had maintained, before the re-establishment of their independence in 1948 and against all odds, historical continuity in living there. The Arabs, as their very name suggests, are indigenous to Arabia and only conquered the area in the 7th century (though they, in turn, were ruled by non-Arabs from the 13th century until the 20th).
Given this history, how can the Jews be either "colonists" or "settlers" in their historical homeland?
Given this history, how can the Jews be either "colonists" or "settlers" in their historical homeland?
2
In the early 70's, I read a Quaker study "Search for Peace in the Middleeast" . I was young and dumfounded to learn about an American news bias --Arab soldiers were consistently referred to as terrorists and Israeli soldiers as freedom fighters. I have been sensitive to this (and the toll of Zionism on our world) ever since. It's forty years on. Today, I notice the article headline -- I think it's the first time I've seen the term "Israeli terrorists" in NYT. And, while equal treatment by the press is notable, the full text, no, the violent reality! is sadder and more disturbing than ever...
126
Irbarile, As a Jewish American I support two States (Jewish Israel and Arab Palestine) living side-by-side in peace. I am opposed to Jewish terrorists who take over West Bank land. Zionism is the belief in the re-creation of a Jewish State (Israel) as part of the land of Palestine. (The Hebrew word Zion in the Hebrew Bible refers to the land of Israel and has been used for over 3 thousand years.) By telling us that you "have been sensitive to .... the toll of Zionism on our world..., you tell us everything we need to know about your feelings towards Jews and peaceful Israelis.
Glad to see the public made aware of this trend. I'm Jewish so it makes me even angrier to see some of our own going to Israel to be terrorists. Makes no sense at all, but terrorism never does. The ultras are the major impediment on the Israeli side to finding a solution. Trading licks will never solve the tension or bring about a solution. The current govt needs to condemn them and treat them like any other terrorist-- trial and severe sentence. Now no doubt the conservatives will beat up on the NYT for making this public.
131
I don't understand--we arrest people for planning to travel to Syria to join ISIS, but we don't arrest people who openly travel to the Palestinian territories to steal other people's land, harass them when they complain, and either commit or turn a blind eye to murder? This double standard is why much of the world hates America.
471
we does the ny times publish uneducated comments like this but not one response to it? there must have already been a ton of responses.
ISIS is not a place, it's a terrorist group. When there's evidence that someone is going to join that group, they are arrested. When someone wants to go to Israel they are not arrested. Israel is not a group nor is it a place the US is at war with. Do you understand now Anne?
ISIS is not a place, it's a terrorist group. When there's evidence that someone is going to join that group, they are arrested. When someone wants to go to Israel they are not arrested. Israel is not a group nor is it a place the US is at war with. Do you understand now Anne?
How can someone "steal land" from a Palestinian squatter who never owned it in the first place? Do explain. Research 1948 and the method used by Jordanian Arab squatters who invaded Jerusalem and drove thousands of Jewish people from their native homes.
1
ThankYou Ms. Hirschhorn. You only have to read the Pro-Israeli comments in the NYT to know this is true.
As the Time magazine reported once, most of these commentators are part of an organized PR campaign paid for by the Israeli government. They claim to be writing from small town America and post anti-Arab, anti-Muslim, anti-Palestinians tropes, whilst clicking away from Israel.
Think of Amazon.com reviews on books/products written by an Indian paid employee in Bengaluru. Except the poster from Tel Aviv are ideological terrorists and not just writing false reviews for stuff made in China
As the Time magazine reported once, most of these commentators are part of an organized PR campaign paid for by the Israeli government. They claim to be writing from small town America and post anti-Arab, anti-Muslim, anti-Palestinians tropes, whilst clicking away from Israel.
Think of Amazon.com reviews on books/products written by an Indian paid employee in Bengaluru. Except the poster from Tel Aviv are ideological terrorists and not just writing false reviews for stuff made in China
51
It is Israel that subsidizes and provides military protection for the squatters in the West Bank, Israeli born terrorist simply wear uniforms. This allows you to shoot a 12 year o Palestinian girl, walk out her and pump more bullets into her head and then be rewarded the Israeli government with a promotion to major and paid money for being put on trial for the atrocity. Israel will only start correcting its behavior when the West holds it to the same standards as it holds other countries and evaluates its unofficial alliance on the basis of how it contributes Western objects.
173
Thanks for this enlightening article on where the radical extremists came from. It boggles my mind that people from Brooklyn and elsewhere can transplant their racism to a foreign country, steal lands belonging to those who live there, terrorize the native populations, and then proclaim that their God gave it all to them. As a Jew it saddens me that nationalism has turned the enlightened Judaism of the Diaspora into an apartheid ideology that ties together religion and state in order to conquer a people. Yes, the USA did the same with its "Manifest Destiny" ideology - but haven't we learned anything and when is the USA going to wake up to the human rights abuse we fund?
384
and you are probably shocked when you are made aware that similar type nuts go off to join isis. the only difference is that the isis folks get great publicity whereas the jewish folks are allowed to slip under the radar. the nyt et al rather ignore this movement. apparently it is not good for sales.
1
It's interesting, if not down right appalling, to see how secularism throughout the world is responsible for man's inhumanity to man. I'm a _______(fill in the blank with any 'religious' group) and therefore my rights supersede yours.
1
And what is your opinion on the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of Arabs who immigrated to Israel between 1900 and 1945? Arabs who originated from Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Iraq and Saudi Arabia have no right to land they did not purchase, till and transform.
The easiest way to tell if they are native, look at the last name. It will tell you their origin. AL-Mugrabi is a common palestinian surname. Look it up and tell me how that's native to Israel and the Levant.
The easiest way to tell if they are native, look at the last name. It will tell you their origin. AL-Mugrabi is a common palestinian surname. Look it up and tell me how that's native to Israel and the Levant.
3
The US government can do its part. Rather than indirectly financing West Bank settlements with its continuing aid to Israeli, we should give US citizens living in Israel and the West Bank an option: a) return to the US with full relocation and other transitional costs paid by the US government; or b) give up your US citizenship.
73
We should not bring them back -- even at our own expense -- but simply recognize that their loyalties lie elsewhere (how can one possibly be a citizen loyal to two countries?) and revoke their citizenship and cancel their passports.
2
Hey, one of the few pieces of good news in this story is that these nuts are over there rather than here! For god's sake let's leave them over there>
1
So what is the point here? A handful of individual lunatic Jews with no state support is on par with the thousands and thousands of organized state supported terrorists who have wreaked havoc on Israel and beyond for decades? Continuing to bring up Baruch Goldstein at every turn, however terrible his deeds, is like saying "Careful crossing Broadway, those horse drawn carriages can kill you!" - technically true, but very very rare and not your biggest problem.
31
Well, obviously if you're Israeli Baruch Goldstein isn't your biggest problem. If you're Palestinian, Israeli violence (from the Naqba to Kahane to Goldstein to the attack in Duma) probably is.
2
Got news for you Israel is strong enough on principles it can absorb a tiny fraction of extremists - how's that working out for the PA and Hamas though not so great right - corruption, fundamentalism and a stone age backwardness that is celebrated is their problem - extremism on the other hand in Israel is condemned by the mainstream. If only Hamas attacked Israel once every twenty years huh?
Miss Hirschhorn, there is no evidence that the arson attack in Duma was done by Jewish extremists! All evidence points to a blood feud between Palestinians in that village. Israeli authorities have gone over all the elements in the investigation more than once and the PA has offered no assistance whatsoever in the investigation. Terrorists come anywhere and everywhere, whether they're Jewish, Islamic or Christian. Let us know when you have any credible information worthy of anyone's attention.
15
Hard to accept the suggestion in the first paragraph that the nationality of the terrorists is more disturbing than the brutal murder of Ali Dawabsheh. That said, the US roots of Israel's settler terrorism is alarming and horrible and has been well-known for some time if not widely circulated. North American Jews must start owning up to this shameful legacy.
115
North American Jews don't have to own up to anything! This is "blood libel". By the same standards, all North Americans should own up to the Manson murders! I'm surprised that the NY Times (which moderates comments) allows this type of garbage to circulate! What's next, round-up American Jews (like the Nazis did) because of the purported actions of a few criminals, who or may not be American? It is the supporters of terrorism (of any denomination, Moslem, Jewish, Christian, or Hindu) who need to "own up".
1
Israel condemns Jewish terrorism, and all terrorism, very loudly. When was the last time the PLO arrested a Palestinian terrorist?
52
Settlements are terrorism.
Israel promotes settlements. It funds settlements. It offers military support for settlements, with swift violence against any Palestinian who dares stand his or her ground.
That is not condemning terrorism. It is the very definition of state sponsored terrorism.
Israel promotes settlements. It funds settlements. It offers military support for settlements, with swift violence against any Palestinian who dares stand his or her ground.
That is not condemning terrorism. It is the very definition of state sponsored terrorism.
7
joe there is a qualitative difference between a freedom fighter and a thug. when the stern gang they blew up the saint davids hotel(in Jurusalem) in 1946(?) they surely thought of themselves as freedom fighters - what would you have called them ? oh maybe you don't want to remember that kind of history.
1
Israel elected Yitzhak Shamir and Menachim Begin as prime minister. The PLO routinely arrests Palestinian terrorists.
I am struck by the quick recourse to false symmetry of the "Palestinians (not Arabs) do it too" discourse. The Palestinians at least have the rationale of being resistance fighters hoping to establish their country in a place that is an ancestral homeland. The Americans who have come to play pioneer do so as invaders supported by outside force, money, and communication systems. When challenged they have easy access to political influence that guarantees a continuing flow of resources, protection in the United Nations, and sympathetic ears among a broad spectrum of American voters. Ms. Hirschhorn describes a few violent acts notable only because they trace to American rather than other roots. But the real savagery comes with the institutionalized abuse, repression, vandalism, and pillaging which has become an accepted norm in Israeli society.That Americans play a prominent role in fostering rather than discouraging this behavior is reprehensible.
I am quite aware Hamas, Hezbollah, and other groups make life uncomfortable for Israelis and that among their leaders are cynics, exploiters, and extremists. But to expect the Palestinians to meekly accept this intrusion and bear a burden neither the Europeans nor Americans have had to bear, and to do so with a smile, is absurd. No-one announced that New Jersey or South Carolina would be partitioned but not to worry, those displaced would be welcome to settle in Oklahoma. Maybe move Israel to Idaho.
I am quite aware Hamas, Hezbollah, and other groups make life uncomfortable for Israelis and that among their leaders are cynics, exploiters, and extremists. But to expect the Palestinians to meekly accept this intrusion and bear a burden neither the Europeans nor Americans have had to bear, and to do so with a smile, is absurd. No-one announced that New Jersey or South Carolina would be partitioned but not to worry, those displaced would be welcome to settle in Oklahoma. Maybe move Israel to Idaho.
415
I appreciate your attempt at thoughtfulness, but I have to object to the idea that Hamas, etc. "make life uncomfortable." That's the understatement of the year! Moreover, the better analogy is with Native Americans, whom we Americans dispossessed without any historical or native ties to their land, and who did not resort to terrorism. I agree that it is unreasonable to expect the Palestinians to "meekly accept" the Jewish conquest, just as Jews did not meekly accept the Roman conquest. But you seem to have very low moral expectations for this group, and very high ones for the Israelis.
1
Neither Hamas, Fatah or even Hezbollah are resistance fighters. They have sworn to kill not only all Israelis, but also Jews in that process. Each of their charters imply that in broad daylight and they don't hide it either. They are even sworn to using terrorism as their only way to get what they want and nothing else. They even make sure that anyone who speaks out or stands up against them are killed just like that group of Palestinians that were killed recently in the Gaza Strip for protesting against Hamas. Overall, there is no legitimate reasons for terrorism no matter what side it's coming from. The only difference on the Israeli or Jewish side is that many of them act on their own while their actions get condemned and get arrested for doing such acts. Meanwhile, on the Palestinian side, those that commit such acts are treated like martyrs and have places named after them, which shows who is really condoning extremists here. Seriously, if the Palestinians really wanted a state, then they will sit down and negotiate with the Israelis on this rather than making more terrorist attacks. Just imagine how others would view the patriots during the time of the American Revolution if they attacked innocent civilians in their protest to British occupation. The results would backfire and more would find it better to be under British rule considering them civilized rather than be independent and ruled by such extremists.
2
A fascinating - and utterly ahistorical - perspective. There are 23 Arab nations and one Jewish nation, about 1% of the size and population of those 23 countries. For decades, the Arab argument against Israel was not that the Palestinians deserve a country of their own in that land, but that Jews don't. In fact, the Arabs vociferously argued AGAINST carving out a separate country because there had never been an Arab ethnic or religious group associated with the area that Jews had lived in continuously for over 3,000 years.
As to calling Hamas and Hezbollah "nuisances," I guess Israel deserves the blame for successfully (and hopefully permanently) beating off their constant attempts at genocide.
As to calling Hamas and Hezbollah "nuisances," I guess Israel deserves the blame for successfully (and hopefully permanently) beating off their constant attempts at genocide.
9
There must be no "greater Israel," for the phrase envisions the whole of the West Bank as within an expanded State of Israel under sole control of the Jewish State. As an American Jew, I am doubly appalled at the notion, not only because it presupposes no Palestinian state, but because its most ardent proponents seem to be from this country. And to invoke the memory of Martin Luther King in support of dispossessing another people is reprehensible. As the season of reflection, repentance and renewal approaches, I will hope and pray that saner voices will prevail.
60
Nailed it.
The takeaway here ... it is an abomination to decry terrorism done by the Other, while enabling terrorism among one's own tribe.
The takeaway here ... it is an abomination to decry terrorism done by the Other, while enabling terrorism among one's own tribe.
169
Palistinians have terrorists, Jews have terrorists. Muslims commit horrific acts that terrorize and kill, Jews commit horrific acts and kill as well.
To even suggest that the terrorism on the Jewish side remotely equates to the terrorism on the Muslim side is ludicrous. Yes it does exist, but the comparison stops there. Run the numbers. Contrary to Palestinian activists opinion, those who die during battle (eg. Cast Lead) don't count. A family casualty of collateral damage in a Gaza war zone is different than a Jerusalem family eating in a pizzeria blown to pieces by a homicide-bomber. It is common for peace activists to point to two main episodes- this horrific act and Baruch Goldstein (20-how many years ago?) as examples of Jew-on-Muslim terror. But for every act of settler terrorism, there are at least 25 acts of Muslim-on-Jew terror. Yes they are both wrong, but this article has undertones that it is equivalent, and a major problem in Israel....It is not. All Jewish terrorists are considered criminals in Israel, are pursued, caught, convicted and jailed. A vast majority of right wing Israelis cringe at the name Boruch Goldstein. Palestinian terrorists have town squares named after them.
To even suggest that the terrorism on the Jewish side remotely equates to the terrorism on the Muslim side is ludicrous. Yes it does exist, but the comparison stops there. Run the numbers. Contrary to Palestinian activists opinion, those who die during battle (eg. Cast Lead) don't count. A family casualty of collateral damage in a Gaza war zone is different than a Jerusalem family eating in a pizzeria blown to pieces by a homicide-bomber. It is common for peace activists to point to two main episodes- this horrific act and Baruch Goldstein (20-how many years ago?) as examples of Jew-on-Muslim terror. But for every act of settler terrorism, there are at least 25 acts of Muslim-on-Jew terror. Yes they are both wrong, but this article has undertones that it is equivalent, and a major problem in Israel....It is not. All Jewish terrorists are considered criminals in Israel, are pursued, caught, convicted and jailed. A vast majority of right wing Israelis cringe at the name Boruch Goldstein. Palestinian terrorists have town squares named after them.
22
You clearly have never been to Kiryat Arba where Goldstein lived. Go look at the incredible memorial garden park set up for him there, where he's declared a hero. Go see Israeli Jews praying at his grave site.
9
I heard a bit of a different story on Baruch Goldstein than it is reported in liberal media. I think he is rather a hero than a senseless murderer.
In response to megachulo - Really?! While Gaza may be a war zone to some, it is home to close to two million people. It is home to them and ghetto and jail as well, since they have no way out. Calling them "collateral" whatever is insane. A pizzeria in Jerusalem is absolutely not a "legitimate" target of terror. Neither is a strip of land under occupation. Yes, occupation. Despite the withdrawal of Israeli army from the Gaza strip (which was not done as a concession to its population but because it was too hard to occupy) Israel maintains control over every aspect of life there. And comparing an occupied people's efforts to free itself to the actions of the occupying state is just uneducated or blind by choice. I shudder to imagine an entire population having to go through hell to get to a hospital while watching - or even working for - a Jewish settlement. Because Jewish settlements are built by Palestinians, who have no other income.
2
"'We’re not fighting against an enemy who plays by the same rules as we do,' he argued. 'Given the cruelty and barbarism of the Arabs to their own people, our ethical imperative is not to commit suicide.'”
I'm sure the irony is lost on no-one, but you could replace "Arabs" with any disparaged group in history and have a quote similar to what their oppressors said to justify their actions. The Palestinians fight back because they wake up every morning with less and less land and less and less freedoms.
I'm sure the irony is lost on no-one, but you could replace "Arabs" with any disparaged group in history and have a quote similar to what their oppressors said to justify their actions. The Palestinians fight back because they wake up every morning with less and less land and less and less freedoms.
242
The problem started in 1948 when Zionist unilaterally declared Palestinian territory to be Israel.
All the rest are subsequent reprucussions.
All the rest are subsequent reprucussions.
129
It was the other way around. The problem started in 1947 after the Arabs chose to attack a cease-fire line that started the Israeli War of Independence after the UN divided the former British mandate. Any land that the Zionists gained was during that said war, and the winner gets to keep that land and decides what to do with it. If the Arabs didn't like that, then they should have just accepted that partition plan rather than start that war. As for anything else you are implying, the Arabs and/or Palestinians brought that on themselves by starting those wars as well. BTW, there was no Palestinian Army during the Israeli War of Independence despite there being armies from the neighboring countries at the time, which shows that there was never a Palestinian nation to begin with.
10
Just to set the record straight. The state of Israel was created alongside a separate Palestinian state, by the United Nations in 1948. The Palestinians and neighboring countries refused to recognize the state of Israel. A large fraction (but not all) of the Palestinians living in the Israeli portion fled and the surrounding Arab countries declared war on the state of Israel (war of 1948). It is continued lack of recognition of Israel by the surrounding Arab countries (Syria, Lebanon, and also Egypt) which is part of the problem, and which has led to several wars including the wars of 1967 and 1973. The other problem, is that we have two peoples - the Israelis and the Palestinians - squeezed together in a very small area of land. The only possible solution is cooperation and coexistence.
7
You need a refresher in on your history my friend.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_for_Palestine_(legal_instr...
There are a few dates in there long before '48.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_for_Palestine_(legal_instr...
There are a few dates in there long before '48.
4
While I abhor these terrorists, and wish Israel would get out of the territories and support the creation of a Palestinian state, the one-sided reporting continues to astound me. Why are these Israelis, rightly so, called terrorists, yet the NY Times continues to call Palestinians who shoot rockets indiscriminately at Israel, "militants"? Those people are equally terrorists - they commit violent acts against civilians in exactly the same way.
11
You know, I think this article is quite interesting and persuasive. But its timing seems pretty inflammatory, actually. I am looking at the comments so far, and there is a lot of who did it first, they did this to us so now we do this to them.
This is not the conversation to be having right now. Can we work on getting the refugee crisis in Europe just a bit more stabilized before we go into who is doing what to whom? It is an important conversation, just let's have a little sensitivity about timing. Bring it back in a couple of months, please.
This is not the conversation to be having right now. Can we work on getting the refugee crisis in Europe just a bit more stabilized before we go into who is doing what to whom? It is an important conversation, just let's have a little sensitivity about timing. Bring it back in a couple of months, please.
6
So what's the author's point? That America, our great democracy, is a breeding ground for Jewish terrorists and Israel is not? Then, good on Israel. The author should spend some time in UN-run schools in Gaza where every child is indoctrinated into Jew/Israel hatred and spend some time in the summer camps in Gaza run by Hamas and Islamic Jihad where teenagers are taught terror tactics to be used against Israelis (Jewish or not). BTW, since the fire that killed Ali Dawabsheh and his father, there have been a few (can't recall the exact number) additional fires involving Dawabsheh property and, all the available evidence involving the first fire--at least that known to the public--is simply the Hebrew scrawled on the Dawabsheh home. Hebrew, a language many Arabs in Israel are fluent in. Not suggesting that there are not some bad apples among Jews, there are of course, as there are in any population. Just that the author seems to have it in for Jewish Americans.
16
"For four decades, their condemnation has often been either muted or tempered by attempts to play down Jewish terrorism by framing it as an issue of “understanding the context” — a euphemism for reacting to Palestinian violence. And while there is absolutely no justification for Palestinian terrorism, it is not enough for Jews to preach to Palestinians that moderates must speak out, murderers must be cast out, and incitement must be stopped without taking the same aggressive steps within their own communities."
Faulty analogy. The fact is that many mostly non-orthodox, non-right wing Jewish Rabbis and leaders do speak out against terrorist nationalist/religious racist Jews and violent acts against Palestinians in the West Bank. Even the President of Israel, a supporter of the settler movement and an Israeli right-winger, roundly condemned Jewish terrorists, and Israeli police and legal system immediately reacted and hunted them down in order to detain them in them. This does *not* happen when Palestinians terrorists launch attacks. At best there are weak obligatory statements from Abbas and the PA, and in fact, glorification of Palestinian terrorist attacks with public squares and monuments names for the terrorists, and people distributing candy in the streets. Israeli moderates do aggressively speak out. But Not enough Palestinian moderates do so -- because they fear being killed themselves for speaking out, in a society where freedom of thought is banned.
Faulty analogy. The fact is that many mostly non-orthodox, non-right wing Jewish Rabbis and leaders do speak out against terrorist nationalist/religious racist Jews and violent acts against Palestinians in the West Bank. Even the President of Israel, a supporter of the settler movement and an Israeli right-winger, roundly condemned Jewish terrorists, and Israeli police and legal system immediately reacted and hunted them down in order to detain them in them. This does *not* happen when Palestinians terrorists launch attacks. At best there are weak obligatory statements from Abbas and the PA, and in fact, glorification of Palestinian terrorist attacks with public squares and monuments names for the terrorists, and people distributing candy in the streets. Israeli moderates do aggressively speak out. But Not enough Palestinian moderates do so -- because they fear being killed themselves for speaking out, in a society where freedom of thought is banned.
13
This is a lie. Besides, the Palestinian Authority, Israel's gendarme, goes around arresting people that Israel demands it arrest, not because they've actually committed any crime but strictly out of whatever Israeli security decides is a "risk." This allows all kinds of arrests for political activity by political parties Israel and the PA don't like. As for the PLO, it effectively disappeared when the PA was installed as the native police force to do Israel's dirty work for Israel.
4
I am a non-Jew and took part in a conflict tour for young leaders in the West Bank and Israel in 2005. When I was there I was very interested to see how Jews and Arabs exist, more or less, on top of each other and/or side by side in daily life. Most of them seemed to just want to co-exist peacefully. It is more in the USA, where we focus on 'black vs. white', 'good vs. evil', where we hear the dichotomy of 'pro-Israel' vs. 'pro-Palestine'. This is a false dichotomy perpetuated by our childish, myopic national media. You are either pro-peace or pro-conflict - there is no other option in between, and peace has no ethnicity.
108
I really wish this were a "conflict," with all that's implied by that. Unfortunately, this is a case of settler-colonialism in which the state is formed by displacing the people already on the land, much as the US was formed by "removal" of Indians--all these euphemisms, "transfer," as some in the Zionist leadership called it during the earlier part of the 20th c., the use of "good fences make good neighbors" by Ariel Sharon to describe the apartheid wall. I've lived in the West Bank, and I wish this was a conflict between two sides. But it isn't.
8
t’s hard to say who is the greater terrorists, the ones who commit or promote violence against their fellow human beings, or those who silently acquiesce to their actions. We should not be surprised that among those enablers are the kind of rabbis, who like their counterparts in other extremist religious groups, stoke the fires claiming that it is "God’s will". What arrogance. That American born Israeli terrorists invoke the civil rights movement of which many Jews like myself we a part, is particularly distressing, but again not surprising. Martin Luther King, Jr. and my father Rabbi Joachim Prinz who shared platforms and the struggle together would be appalled by the distortion of their message and, worse, its misuse for evil means. Terrorism of any kind is evil, when invoked in the claimed word of God it is, to use a term that they piously invoke in their “religious” life, sinful. This isn’t the only terrorism that America is exporting these days, but speaking as a Jew, it is perhaps the most disgraceful and painful.
304
Governments and corporations are often the worst terrorists around, particularly since much of their indirect violence is "legal", but it's called foreign policy, treaty, and trade.
These ultra religious Jewish Israeli nationalists cast an ugly shadow on an honorable and ethical ancient faith and on Israel. I hope the Israeli govt can restrain and denounce these fanatics, who are an embarrassment and disgrace to the deep humanistic wisdom in Judaism , the world's oldest living faith. Jihsdist hate and hate does not go away. It is prevalent not only in the Middle East, but as well in Europe, the Americas, and Australia. For some fanatical Israelis to think that a moral equivalency to Islamists is just is to place themselves in the gutter.
1
Stepping down to the level of (some of) those who you hate is not the way to win an argument - or a war. Ask Ghandi or MLK or Nelson Mandela. (Of course this lesson cuts both ways in Palestine.
9
its not a two way deal. we(americans) view the israelis as our charges and give them the where with all to create there mayhem. like naughty children they just run amok with our blessings(like children everywhere).
4
Of course, they’re American. There must be a Hebrew version of the sign “Insured by Smith & Wesson: Policy #357MAGNUM.”
11
No surprise judging by the US genocide of the Native Americans, enslavement of Africans, nuclear bombing of civilian targets and perpetual war since 1776. To mention only a few of our terrorist acts.
13
Let me briefly address your elementary school comments:
1) Africans were enslaved long before there was a "U.S.", and within 75 years of our Constitution we were fighting to free them.
2) Nuclear bombing was of an implacable enemy that had systematically engaged in war crimes against the U.S. and others.
3) Your definition of "perpetual" needs revisiting; until the misguided Vietnam War, the U.S. was mostly dragged into wars by the archaic Europeans.
I'm with you on the Indian genocide. So which wonderful country do you hold up as a paragon of virtue?
1) Africans were enslaved long before there was a "U.S.", and within 75 years of our Constitution we were fighting to free them.
2) Nuclear bombing was of an implacable enemy that had systematically engaged in war crimes against the U.S. and others.
3) Your definition of "perpetual" needs revisiting; until the misguided Vietnam War, the U.S. was mostly dragged into wars by the archaic Europeans.
I'm with you on the Indian genocide. So which wonderful country do you hold up as a paragon of virtue?
1
There hasn't been "perpetual war" "since 1776," my friend. There were gaps after the end of the "Indian Wars" and up until the start of the Cold War. But at least since 1948 you are correct. War Mongers are us. How sad is that in "the land of the free and the home of the brave."
No surprise in this article.
All religions are capable of producing violent apocalyptic extremists.
And all countries, even those which attempt to practice tolerance, are capable of producing violent apocalyptic extremists.
Of course, the nice thing about the U.S. when it comes to producing violence apocalyptic extremists is that we have a solid tradition of believing in "end of the world" apocalyptic conspiracy theories along with a solid tradition of allowing anyone, including the children, the mentally ill, terrorists, criminals, have almost completely free and unlimited accesses and bomb-making material. We even take our young children to shooting ranges to learn to shoot automatic weapons so that when the Apocalypse takes place we will be able to go down in a blaze of bullets.
All religions are capable of producing violent apocalyptic extremists.
And all countries, even those which attempt to practice tolerance, are capable of producing violent apocalyptic extremists.
Of course, the nice thing about the U.S. when it comes to producing violence apocalyptic extremists is that we have a solid tradition of believing in "end of the world" apocalyptic conspiracy theories along with a solid tradition of allowing anyone, including the children, the mentally ill, terrorists, criminals, have almost completely free and unlimited accesses and bomb-making material. We even take our young children to shooting ranges to learn to shoot automatic weapons so that when the Apocalypse takes place we will be able to go down in a blaze of bullets.
22
It is difficult to know for certain whether the author's conclusions are founded on a series of anecdotes or on careful statistical studies. In either case, the situation she describes is very troubling. A possible explanation for the prevalence of Americans among the Israeli extremists is a desire on the part of new arrivals to prove their loyalty to their new homeland. If so, this would be a variation on the old adage that converts make the most rigid adherents of any movement, religious or secular.
Even so, Professor Hirschhorn's interpretation strikes me as somewhat disingenuous. However important the influence of their American background, these immigrants are entering a hothouse environment created by settlement communities that see themselves as embattled outposts of God's people. That atmosphere, all by itself, would distort the perspective of most people, especially those dedicated to what they see as the manifest destiny of Israel.
A government seemingly trapped between a policy of encouraging these settlements and a desire to restrain violence, shares the guilt for the atrocities. The obvious differences between the way it responds to Palestinian violence as opposed to Israeli outrages sends a none too subtle message that the law is a tool of Israeli dominance.
The role of Americans in the violence deserves the strongest condemnation, but they must share top billing in this tragedy with the Israeli government and native-born citizens.
Even so, Professor Hirschhorn's interpretation strikes me as somewhat disingenuous. However important the influence of their American background, these immigrants are entering a hothouse environment created by settlement communities that see themselves as embattled outposts of God's people. That atmosphere, all by itself, would distort the perspective of most people, especially those dedicated to what they see as the manifest destiny of Israel.
A government seemingly trapped between a policy of encouraging these settlements and a desire to restrain violence, shares the guilt for the atrocities. The obvious differences between the way it responds to Palestinian violence as opposed to Israeli outrages sends a none too subtle message that the law is a tool of Israeli dominance.
The role of Americans in the violence deserves the strongest condemnation, but they must share top billing in this tragedy with the Israeli government and native-born citizens.
40
I congratulate the NY TIMES for writing about a topic no American media is willing to address. There are many unpleasant topics concerning Israel, many, and stories like this one are rare to see the leigh of day.
422
MJB, it isn't an unwillingness to address the subject it's the lack of knowledge about it. Reporters, for the most part, don't know any more than we do and have to dig this stuff up. Especially when the people involved want to keep their activities hidden. I also congratulate the Times reporter and editors on this and I'm a Jew who very much wants the State of Israel to survive. It was a Jewish terrorist who killed Rabin. And, it's been a long spiral down for Israeli political sanity ever since.
10
September 4, 2015
Never underestimate the New York Times and in fact all major journals -everywhere that know historically reports for Israeli ciitzens' origins of birth effecting how and why in what to live and die for as religious nature. All is in the writings for since the formation of the State of Israel - endless discourse of those seeking the rebirth of a Jewish Homeland and defined by the State of Israel for eternity.
jja Manhattan, N. Y.
Never underestimate the New York Times and in fact all major journals -everywhere that know historically reports for Israeli ciitzens' origins of birth effecting how and why in what to live and die for as religious nature. All is in the writings for since the formation of the State of Israel - endless discourse of those seeking the rebirth of a Jewish Homeland and defined by the State of Israel for eternity.
jja Manhattan, N. Y.
1
Actually simzap, begin by reading algemeiner.com and Times of Israel, The former often relies on AP, Rueters, and other non-Israeli sources, and the latter is considered by some (many?) to be a left-wing Israeli paper. Then broaden your reading from there. Nothing factual (not speculative) in this op-ed hasn't been reported elsewhere previously. In fact, I often find that even the Times' reporting on documented events in Israel, the west bank, and Gaza is often "a day late and a dollar short."
6
The evil acts that this article describes have been widely condemned by all segments of Israeli society, including by virtually all prominent leaders on the 'right.' - something even the New York Times noted in its coverage, but that Ms. Hirschhorn ignores.
If only the same widespread condemnation were forthcoming from the Palestinians for acts committed by its terrorists peace would be a lot closer. Instead, we have a combination of tepid denouncements and the honoring of those who commit the terror by naming streets, squares and stadiums after them.
If only the same widespread condemnation were forthcoming from the Palestinians for acts committed by its terrorists peace would be a lot closer. Instead, we have a combination of tepid denouncements and the honoring of those who commit the terror by naming streets, squares and stadiums after them.
32
The Palestinians don't have a state: The Israelis do.
11
Ms. Hirschhorn is right, and very brave. I have never seen any condemnation of these murderous terrorist acts from leaders of the settler movement, or the conservative sects in the US that support them.
15
Did you miss the articles clear condemnation of Palestinian violence, "And while there is absolutely no justification for Palestinian terrorism,...." in the next to last paragraph of the the article.
Otherwise I ask, do you subscribe to a variation on the theme two wrongs make a right. The Palestinians do it, so we can to?
Otherwise I ask, do you subscribe to a variation on the theme two wrongs make a right. The Palestinians do it, so we can to?
17
Ah, yes. The Jewish Taliban from Brooklyn. And when their sponsors in Crown Height have a problem, they call Chuck Schumer.
And don't you know, Sara Hirschhorn will be inundated with hate mail and death threats, and will now have to have 24 hour police protection.
And don't you know, Sara Hirschhorn will be inundated with hate mail and death threats, and will now have to have 24 hour police protection.
364
100% correct.
13
...while sensible, open-minded persons, such as myself, will be certain to get her book when it is released.
4
I suggest you go to the gaza strip and experience Hamas yourself George.
6
Arab terrorists get drone strikes; Israeli terrorists get impunity.
250
So you see the U.S. should be as concerned about attacks from Israeli terrorists as we are from Arab terrorists? You're calling for an expansion of drone strikes against Israel to combat what threat to the U.S. exactly?
4
Actually, many of the targeted killings are not terrorists but civilians with no ties to terrorism who are then labeled "collateral damage."
2
The United States can accept blame for violent American Jewish settlers in the West Bank. The Israeli government and legal system can accept blame for the continuing illegal occupation and settlement of the West Bank and the unequal distribution of justice not only there but in Gaza and Israel proper.
173
Even if I grant you everything you've said, I'll assume you were in a rush and didn't get to add that the Palestinian "Authority" can accept responsibility (I think "blame" is a meaningless word when people are at war) for the acts of the people within their borders.
2
Kudos to the author and the Times for publishing a piece that calls out any act of violence or murder towards innocents by its rightful name: terrorism.
368
I notice that neither in Germany, nor in Israel, is it usually considered to be politically correct to publicly call a white German-born citizen, nor an Israeli citizen of the Jewish faith, who commits a terrorist act, a "terrorist."
2
Unfortunately the NYTimes calls Hamas, Hezbollah, the PLO, etc "militants" and not "terrorists." The NYTimes allows the one Israeli who did this crime a terrorist though. What is wrong with this picture?
8
...and we wonder why Americans of another religious persuasion are drawn to fight for ISIS.
49
You got it!
ISIS was created solely due to Jews behaving badly.
On second thought, that might not jibe with Islamic fascism the world over. Give me time, I'll weave that narrative into why Boko Haram is still holding 500 African girls. It's got to be the Jews, somehow.
ISIS was created solely due to Jews behaving badly.
On second thought, that might not jibe with Islamic fascism the world over. Give me time, I'll weave that narrative into why Boko Haram is still holding 500 African girls. It's got to be the Jews, somehow.
11
So Israeli murderers who kill Palestinians are clearly terrorists, yet Hamas murderers who blow up school buses, shoot rockets into cities hospitals and schools and raise generation of children to be Islamist killers, are merely 'militants'.
NY Times standards.
NY Times standards.
51
In reply to "So Israeli murderers who kill Palestinians are clearly terrorists, yet Hamas murderers who blow up school buses, shoot rockets into cities hospitals and schools and raise generation of children to be Islamist killers, are merely 'militants'. "
The NYT times also calls the members of the IDF soldiers, despite the facts that they blow up schools, ambulances, hospitals, raze agricultural land and bomb beaches with kids playing soccer.
The NYT times also calls the members of the IDF soldiers, despite the facts that they blow up schools, ambulances, hospitals, raze agricultural land and bomb beaches with kids playing soccer.
35
This article specifically condemns Palestinian violence saying "And while there is absolutely no justification for Palestinian terrorism,..."
How would you feel if your neighbor just entered your property and appropriated your orchard and well and demanded you pay the appropriator for what had been your property and water?
How would you feel if your neighbor just entered your property and appropriated your orchard and well and demanded you pay the appropriator for what had been your property and water?
22
What is the difference between militant and terrorist?
Hamas wants to expel all the Jews out of Palestine and is ready to kill any Jew who refuses to leave by his own.
Settlers want to expel all the non Jews out of the whole land of Israel and are ready to kill anyone who refuses to leave by his own.
Either all of them are terrorists or all of them are militants. I've not read many articles where all Settlers are called terrorists, in many cases they are simply called militants.
Hamas wants to expel all the Jews out of Palestine and is ready to kill any Jew who refuses to leave by his own.
Settlers want to expel all the non Jews out of the whole land of Israel and are ready to kill anyone who refuses to leave by his own.
Either all of them are terrorists or all of them are militants. I've not read many articles where all Settlers are called terrorists, in many cases they are simply called militants.
5
A full article on 1 Israeli terrorist.. The New York Times relentless pursuit of debasing Israel at any and every turn in disgraceful. Where are you full length articles on The Iranain murder of Alberto Nisman,the argentine prosecutor, the thousands upon thousands of Arab terrorists sworn every day to yours and my extermination?
32
preeeeeeetty sure the ratio of articles about terrorism and violence in Arab countries to to those covering Israeli terrorism is about 50:1, in the NYT or anywhere else. Be easy.
23
Grow up Albert. You know that this is the first article in ages that states what the NYT is usually too timid to state. Get off your cross, we need the wood.
17
You're joking, right? The Times publishes stories about extremist Muslim terrorists every day.
19
I dont seem to grasp at the concept here, for years, Palestinians rallied around the "Intifada" and danced in the street as blood and bombs were reigning down on Israeli citizens - now that the tables are turned, its a problem?
18
Rich, violence against anyone is wrong. Can we agree to this first?
You wrote "now that the tables have turned". Really? I guarantee the body count of Palestinians vastly outnumbers Israeli casualties over the last 60 years. Perhaps you should have some scope of history. The tables have been turned for a long time.
Israel needs to negotiate with the Palestinians and Arab nations from a position of strength, and not continue to antagonize and kill people in the name of some elusive form of security that no one can define.
You wrote "now that the tables have turned". Really? I guarantee the body count of Palestinians vastly outnumbers Israeli casualties over the last 60 years. Perhaps you should have some scope of history. The tables have been turned for a long time.
Israel needs to negotiate with the Palestinians and Arab nations from a position of strength, and not continue to antagonize and kill people in the name of some elusive form of security that no one can define.
12
Please review some impartial sources and you will discover the whole issue is a two way street, similar to the United State's eradication of its First or Native Peoples.
Israel violently forced the removal of 750,000 thousand people from their homes, killing thousands in the process, to the United Nations mandated Arab lands. Since then Israel with US backing has gobbled up land and resources that was to belong to the Palestinians, using settlers as the advancing front line.
After 1948 blood has been shed by both sides. Israel, my view has shifted over the past 60 years of my life.
Israel violently forced the removal of 750,000 thousand people from their homes, killing thousands in the process, to the United Nations mandated Arab lands. Since then Israel with US backing has gobbled up land and resources that was to belong to the Palestinians, using settlers as the advancing front line.
After 1948 blood has been shed by both sides. Israel, my view has shifted over the past 60 years of my life.
19
Almost ALL of the blood has been Palestinian, lots from children and women and innocent citizens.
14
"Israeli Terrorists, Born in the U.S.A."
Where better to be born than in a land where the NRA holds sway with 2nd amendment craziness, guns seem to be available on any street corner, and violence is the natural means to settle all arguments. Just look at the movies available on any site and the first thing you notice is that they are mainly violent in nature no matter what the subject and the most ruthless individuals are the "stars".
Where better to be born than in a land where the NRA holds sway with 2nd amendment craziness, guns seem to be available on any street corner, and violence is the natural means to settle all arguments. Just look at the movies available on any site and the first thing you notice is that they are mainly violent in nature no matter what the subject and the most ruthless individuals are the "stars".
93
So the NRA is responsible when [mostly urban] US citizens emigrate to Israel and commit clear acts of terrorism?
Really?
I'm relieved to discover that this violence has nothing to do with the history of the Roman Empire, the Ottoman Empire, the Crusades, the Balfour Declaration, the division of the Middle East after World War I, the Holocaust, the disintegration of the British Empire, the terrorist acts of Menachem Begin [bombing of the King David Hotel, etc.], or the mutual aggression between Israeli Jews and Middle Eastern Arabs since then.
Thank you for clarifying that.
Really?
I'm relieved to discover that this violence has nothing to do with the history of the Roman Empire, the Ottoman Empire, the Crusades, the Balfour Declaration, the division of the Middle East after World War I, the Holocaust, the disintegration of the British Empire, the terrorist acts of Menachem Begin [bombing of the King David Hotel, etc.], or the mutual aggression between Israeli Jews and Middle Eastern Arabs since then.
Thank you for clarifying that.
2
Everything you wrote is, of course, absolutely, factually correct. I hope you are ready for the flood of "self-hating Jew" replies which will be coming in any moment now.
283
Our elected leaders are already out of touch with informed Americans on the support of Israel, and becoming moreso. One day, hopefully soon, the politicians who relate to Americans more than Israelis will solidify governing power and, however belatedly, the support for Israel will come to an end.