Where was the EU when they were striking IRAQ, LIBYA then Syria. Right upfront. Creating the refugees. Did not think about this aspect of wars (blinded by the uncontrollable desire of spreading democracy (??)). Now deal with it. EU wants to go strike other countries and create more refugees?? Try Eygpt now they have a dictator or perhaps Jordan non-democratic.
To Europe, "Welcome to the club."
2
About forty years ago, a book called The Camp of the Saints by Jean Raspail posited a time when Europe would be overrun by refugees from the East who wanted to take for themselves the abundance of the West, specifically Europe.
The good folks of Europe were welcoming at first but suddenly realize that their culture is being wiped out by the invasion of folks with a new religion and ethos.
It has become a best seller again I understand and has a message for all countries who want to keep a culture and a national ethos that they value and want to maintain.
If we, as Americans, want to change and fundamentally transform this country into something that progressives like Obama envision, then we should do it by national votes, not by the failure of our President and his party to enforce the laws.
The good folks of Europe were welcoming at first but suddenly realize that their culture is being wiped out by the invasion of folks with a new religion and ethos.
It has become a best seller again I understand and has a message for all countries who want to keep a culture and a national ethos that they value and want to maintain.
If we, as Americans, want to change and fundamentally transform this country into something that progressives like Obama envision, then we should do it by national votes, not by the failure of our President and his party to enforce the laws.
1
Replying Phyllis North: "...provide free contraceptives for all people on the planet."
One of the very best and cheapest birth-control measure is to prevent war.
Countries with no wars on their territories are affluent; their infant mortality rates are very low and life expectancies high; reproductive females are generally busy with educational, scientific and socio-economic endeavours and take personal responsibilities for effective birth control. Therefore, conception rates are low in such countries; and their fewer children would anyway live much longer than those in poor countries.
However, in war-ravaged, unstable and poor countries, infant mortality rates are very high, with low life expectancies; reproductive females are generally controlled by their male spouses and bread winners. Unprotected sexual intercourse is rife and family planning measures are 'privileges' obtained at very high costs. Pregnancies are therefore frequently and their infants would anyway die very early.
Therefore, for very efficient/effective pan-global birth control; simply effect worldwide war prevention -just by ensuring that national political leaders' pro-war disputes cannot cause war, as now.
With added benefits of transparent and accountable political governance in present chronically war-destabilised countries, national economies would improve; and these sad and perilous trans-Mediterranean Sea and Sahara Desert mass migrations towards Europe would then become unnecessary.
One of the very best and cheapest birth-control measure is to prevent war.
Countries with no wars on their territories are affluent; their infant mortality rates are very low and life expectancies high; reproductive females are generally busy with educational, scientific and socio-economic endeavours and take personal responsibilities for effective birth control. Therefore, conception rates are low in such countries; and their fewer children would anyway live much longer than those in poor countries.
However, in war-ravaged, unstable and poor countries, infant mortality rates are very high, with low life expectancies; reproductive females are generally controlled by their male spouses and bread winners. Unprotected sexual intercourse is rife and family planning measures are 'privileges' obtained at very high costs. Pregnancies are therefore frequently and their infants would anyway die very early.
Therefore, for very efficient/effective pan-global birth control; simply effect worldwide war prevention -just by ensuring that national political leaders' pro-war disputes cannot cause war, as now.
With added benefits of transparent and accountable political governance in present chronically war-destabilised countries, national economies would improve; and these sad and perilous trans-Mediterranean Sea and Sahara Desert mass migrations towards Europe would then become unnecessary.
1
Anybody see the movie World War Z?
Well, it's not just a movie.
Well, it's not just a movie.
1
Why would anyone want to live in a place where they weren't wanted, but are actively resented? I noticed that the "refugees" are causing a lot of trouble in Hungary. Not exactly making themselves more welcome, are they? What a hellish situation for everyone.
1
Glad to see someone at the paper discovered Slovakia and properly placed it online. Hard copy placed Czech Republic where Slovakia exists. Geographically challenged at the Newspaper of Record!
2
Jews in 1939, and now, Refugees from the Middle East in 2015: Will the world act to prevent a 21st century SS St. Louis?
The international community's apathy toward the plight of those refugees who lost their homes,jobs and hopes due to the Western intervention through wars and conflicts in the name of implanting Western Democracy in the Middle East.
Refugees stranded at sea mimics the indifference that saw many Jews sent to their death. Will countries of conscience remain silent? The West created this this mess by invading Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria and Palestine through Israel. Now the West has the moral obligation to solve great problem as they did in Japan and Germany after war, by the so called Marshal Plan.
The international community's apathy toward the plight of those refugees who lost their homes,jobs and hopes due to the Western intervention through wars and conflicts in the name of implanting Western Democracy in the Middle East.
Refugees stranded at sea mimics the indifference that saw many Jews sent to their death. Will countries of conscience remain silent? The West created this this mess by invading Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria and Palestine through Israel. Now the West has the moral obligation to solve great problem as they did in Japan and Germany after war, by the so called Marshal Plan.
4
I am sure Europeans are angry at being put in this position, by this flood of migrants. I would be angry, too. I would not want my small country to be overwhelmed by all these strangers, who may or may not be wiling to blend into the new culture; may or may not be terrorists; may or may not be making this journey in the hope that these countries will feed and house them, for free. It just seems too much to ask. They will have to set up checkpoints, register every one of these people, and send back the ones who are unsuitable, of whom I imagine there are many. And, it will be very, very expensive. Just seems easier to keep them out, in the first place. I couldn't argue with that point of view.
7
If Germany would stop the monthly per person stipend on top of food and shelter (that for a family of 4 may be more than a man earned at home) economic migrants would not feel encouraged to come.
Those who flee war will be happy with free shelter + food (+ school , German classes for kids, donated clothes).
When laws were written, a few thousand were expected, not close to a million. Europe should focus on refugees from war-torn countries and send all others back at the border, so money and good-will can be used for those who really need it.
The real problem is how to solve the civil war in Syria. The millions displaced in Jordan, Lebanon, Turkey ... and now Europe would have stayed home given the choice.
Those who flee war will be happy with free shelter + food (+ school , German classes for kids, donated clothes).
When laws were written, a few thousand were expected, not close to a million. Europe should focus on refugees from war-torn countries and send all others back at the border, so money and good-will can be used for those who really need it.
The real problem is how to solve the civil war in Syria. The millions displaced in Jordan, Lebanon, Turkey ... and now Europe would have stayed home given the choice.
9
Based on current conditions, political considerations and the not surprising reluctance of many countries in Europe to open their countries to millions of migrants this isn't going to end either peacefully or well.
5
We are really lucky here in the US - just a few Hispanics who are Christians and work hard.
2
Doesn´t this men selfishness?
It is a pity that we are not able to accommodate our fellow human beings on the basis of imaginary lines called "boundaries" and imaginary state called "country". The Almighty has granted us equal rights to reside at any part of the world. I too agree that hard work of one section of people, and fruits of such labour, cannot be shared with people who have come, all of a sudden, from poor parts of the world. But this is a humanitarian crisis and therefore, EU should look at this issue in that way. I do not for a moment endorse human trafficking. EU should take effective steps in identifying smugglers and punishing them. But innocent people cannot be left to rot.
By the way, who is responsible for the present chaos in Middle East. Libyans were safe under Md. Gadhafi, though he was described a tyrant. If the U.S.,Israel and allies have not intervened in places like Iraq and Libya, ISIS would not have come into existence. The present humanitarian crisis across Middle East would not have also cropped up.
It is a pity that we are not able to accommodate our fellow human beings on the basis of imaginary lines called "boundaries" and imaginary state called "country". The Almighty has granted us equal rights to reside at any part of the world. I too agree that hard work of one section of people, and fruits of such labour, cannot be shared with people who have come, all of a sudden, from poor parts of the world. But this is a humanitarian crisis and therefore, EU should look at this issue in that way. I do not for a moment endorse human trafficking. EU should take effective steps in identifying smugglers and punishing them. But innocent people cannot be left to rot.
By the way, who is responsible for the present chaos in Middle East. Libyans were safe under Md. Gadhafi, though he was described a tyrant. If the U.S.,Israel and allies have not intervened in places like Iraq and Libya, ISIS would not have come into existence. The present humanitarian crisis across Middle East would not have also cropped up.
2
Just like with communism in the last century, certain countries social experiments in self-flagellating multiculturalism must be left to run their course and result in inevitable disaster (or success, who knows, only time will tell). That disaster (if it occurs), while unfortunate for the countries afflicted by it, serves as an invaluable cautionary tale that is healthy for mankind as a whole. Much as a vaccination can make one sick for a time but then grants immunity for decades to come. Future societies will value the sacrifices made by those states that fail, so long as records remain to document the causes of that failure.
Europe has always been the world's greatest cauldron for testing ideology. Home of great successes and colossal failures, great triumphs and great tragedies. This was inevitable.
Europe has always been the world's greatest cauldron for testing ideology. Home of great successes and colossal failures, great triumphs and great tragedies. This was inevitable.
3
The Trojan Horse has entered Europe. Perpetual Jihad has arrived.
14
The Trojan Horse has entered Europe. Perpetual Jihad has arrived?
Should we say the same about those Europeans who arrived to the US,Canada and Australia?
I thought that you have more nobel feelings.
You created this great mess by wars in the Middle East backing israel.
Should we say the same about those Europeans who arrived to the US,Canada and Australia?
I thought that you have more nobel feelings.
You created this great mess by wars in the Middle East backing israel.
2
All those European settlers had some geographical frontier to strive for once upon a time, if only to escape the status quo at home. Today's "refugees" (a few of whom arejihadists) are moving to lands that are already saturated.
It is a pity that we are not able to accommodate our fellow human beings on the basis of imaginary lines called "boundaries" and imaginary state called "country". The Almighty has granted us equal rights to reside at any part of the world. I too agree that hard work of one section of people, and fruits of such labour, cannot be shared with people who have come, all of a sudden, from poor parts of the world. But this is a humanitarian crisis and therefore, EU should look at this issue in that way. I do not for a moment endorse human trafficking. EU should take effective steps in identifying smugglers and punishing them. But innocent people cannot be left to rot.
By the way, who is responsible for the present chaos in Middle East. Libyans were safe under Md. Gadhafi, though he was described a tyrant. If the U.S.,Israel and allies have not intervened in places like Iraq and Libya, ISIS would not have come into existence. The present humanitarian crisis across Middle East would not have also cropped up.
By the way, who is responsible for the present chaos in Middle East. Libyans were safe under Md. Gadhafi, though he was described a tyrant. If the U.S.,Israel and allies have not intervened in places like Iraq and Libya, ISIS would not have come into existence. The present humanitarian crisis across Middle East would not have also cropped up.
3
Israel was not part of the group that toppled Gadhafi. That was the US, France and a couple of other European countries.
1
Keep your borders strong, or see what you get. Some folks just don't stop reproducing. Same for us.
6
Jews in 1939, and now Refugees from the Middle East in 2015: Will the world act to prevent a 21st century SS St. Louis?
The international community's apathy toward the plight of those refugees who lost their homes,jobs and hopes due to the Western intervention through wars and conflicts in the name of implanting Western Democracy in the Middle East.
Refugees stranded at sea mimics the indifference that saw many Jews sent to their death. Will countries of conscience remain silent? The West created this this mess by invading Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria and Palestine through Israel. Now the West has the moral obligation to solve great problem as they did in Japan and Germany after war, by the so called Marshal Plan.
The international community's apathy toward the plight of those refugees who lost their homes,jobs and hopes due to the Western intervention through wars and conflicts in the name of implanting Western Democracy in the Middle East.
Refugees stranded at sea mimics the indifference that saw many Jews sent to their death. Will countries of conscience remain silent? The West created this this mess by invading Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria and Palestine through Israel. Now the West has the moral obligation to solve great problem as they did in Japan and Germany after war, by the so called Marshal Plan.
3
Oh please, there is no comparison between the systematic extermination of Jews by the Nazis in WWII days, and the migrants in the current crisis. There is higher force like the SS pushing economic migrants out from the likes of Bangladesh and Pakistan and Africa. The only closer comparison is the treatment (mass enslavement of women and girls, mass killing of the men and boys) of the Yasidi by ISIS.
5
Perhaps the 1951 Refugee Convention and 1968 Protocol is the root cause of migrant crisis in Europe? The Convention stipulates refugees are to be provided with accommodation, health care, education, and jobs. If the Convention was abolished would all these people be flooding into Europe? What did the world do prior to the Convention?
5
The New York Times, http://nyti.ms/1bmayE6, among others, identified wars as the root cause of these sad migrations.
Rather than being riled, on-and-off, by such war manifestations as the incessant refugees crises, their root cause can and should now be completely eliminated.
Wars ONLY result when one paramount political leader deploys his/her community against another and his community after they cannot ordinarily resolve their contentions. And war-provoking mechanisms are always available for their use -munitions+++ and many thousands of soldiers from their war-compliant populaces readied to fight to their deaths.
Eliminate this charade of 'nationalistic wars' by simply establishing a new apolitical and independent, multi-layered worldwide body for resolving all pro-war political contentions; and so prevent ALL war. National political leaders would still run their respective governments, but can no longer create wars.
The above solution is so straightforward and easily enforceable; and that, without armies. Why won't the world adopt it rather than the usual inevitable war catastrophes?
Even then, from this 21st-C onwards -with its worldwide digital technologies age, instant TV war-news coverage, globalization and more reliable air travels/terrorism- wars are now 'un-winnable' and generally unprofitable to all!
Rather than being riled, on-and-off, by such war manifestations as the incessant refugees crises, their root cause can and should now be completely eliminated.
Wars ONLY result when one paramount political leader deploys his/her community against another and his community after they cannot ordinarily resolve their contentions. And war-provoking mechanisms are always available for their use -munitions+++ and many thousands of soldiers from their war-compliant populaces readied to fight to their deaths.
Eliminate this charade of 'nationalistic wars' by simply establishing a new apolitical and independent, multi-layered worldwide body for resolving all pro-war political contentions; and so prevent ALL war. National political leaders would still run their respective governments, but can no longer create wars.
The above solution is so straightforward and easily enforceable; and that, without armies. Why won't the world adopt it rather than the usual inevitable war catastrophes?
Even then, from this 21st-C onwards -with its worldwide digital technologies age, instant TV war-news coverage, globalization and more reliable air travels/terrorism- wars are now 'un-winnable' and generally unprofitable to all!
A PALESTINIAN BOY WAS SAVED BY THE ITALIAN COAST GUARD.
The Independent published on Monday - Abril,20,2015 - the story of 17-year-old Yusuf, who left the Gaza Strip to escape "the death that was all around.".
Yusuf recounts how he and his friend traveled to Lebanon, where, while staying with extended family members at a refugee camp.
“We were afraid we would drown," Yusuf said. "The captain called the Italian coast guard to be rescued. We were so scared of being in the boat but when we saw the rescue ship were overjoyed and smiling. Even the children were happy."
Yusuf now resides in a refugee center in Italy and says he wants to go to Germany or Sweden and one day have his family join him." I sleep, eat, sleep and eat! I feel safe here," he said. "I don’t hear the sound of shouting, of guns."
The Independent published on Monday - Abril,20,2015 - the story of 17-year-old Yusuf, who left the Gaza Strip to escape "the death that was all around.".
Yusuf recounts how he and his friend traveled to Lebanon, where, while staying with extended family members at a refugee camp.
“We were afraid we would drown," Yusuf said. "The captain called the Italian coast guard to be rescued. We were so scared of being in the boat but when we saw the rescue ship were overjoyed and smiling. Even the children were happy."
Yusuf now resides in a refugee center in Italy and says he wants to go to Germany or Sweden and one day have his family join him." I sleep, eat, sleep and eat! I feel safe here," he said. "I don’t hear the sound of shouting, of guns."
1
You can be quite sure that a large majority of these economic migrants, who have neither the skills or education necessary to compete in the first world countries, are going to be mighty disappointed in ten years' time that their fantasy of the western dream is but a dream, they would resent the low life they continue to struggle (albeit no sound of guns), and then they and their kids would dream of their caliphate, and they'll go fight for ISIS (or whatever radical islam groups that come to past in ten years' time).
6
First, preserve the rescuer.
4
In the three "refugee" photos accompanying this online article, there is not one single woman shown - even in the group shots. Most are young working age men - none are elderly. And there are only a couple of children, those being boys....
This smacks of economic migration, not a refugee crisis, which demands a totally different response, which is: go back.
This smacks of economic migration, not a refugee crisis, which demands a totally different response, which is: go back.
14
Your response is a redneck answer the one of human misery, Muslims doesn't do mix in a line, here in two pictures you are seeing line formation, In in this type of situation, Muslim traditions dictates either men or women will go to form line.
You are such a arrogant person,
You never watch CNN, BBC never seen women and girls.
You are so heartless, you are going to vote for Trump.
You are such a arrogant person,
You never watch CNN, BBC never seen women and girls.
You are so heartless, you are going to vote for Trump.
Most are young working age men - none are elderly. And there are only a couple of children, those being boys....?
You must be blind. just go google and you will seem hundreds of picture of old men, women and even babies.
You must be blind. just go google and you will seem hundreds of picture of old men, women and even babies.
1
Sorry Su - I forgot that lovely gossamer tidbit about Muslim culture. Men always first. Who's the redneck - the innocent observer who gets it wrong, or the entire culture that actively discriminates against half of its people.
Tony - referring specifically to the Times' photos. Also - Atlantic monthly, hardly a bastion of conservative thought, gave a pretty stark analysis of the refugee flood citing an incredibly high % of working age men coming through with no families. Should have mentioned that as well.
Tony - referring specifically to the Times' photos. Also - Atlantic monthly, hardly a bastion of conservative thought, gave a pretty stark analysis of the refugee flood citing an incredibly high % of working age men coming through with no families. Should have mentioned that as well.
8
Russia is an immense, beautiful country with a comparatively sparse population. She has vast natural resources and dynamic leadership under Vladimir Putin. Even the weather in newly liberated Crimea is appealing. Why don't more migrants head east rather than west?
Russia will not accept Muslim immigrants.
2
Just a small part of the legacy of George Bush the Lesser.
5
That is for , EU thanks a lot to 43.
First of all, this migration will not be in thousands numbers, it will be millions.
So If EU accepts the Refugees and migrants as they accepted the Euro currency down the road very big crisis expecting them.
This needs a extremely comprehensive approach years to come, stopping all moving people in Italy, Greece, wherever they land first, accommodating, sorting and registering and allocating, not free roaming wherever they want to go.
Like Slovaks or other resisting members against the quota system , their resistance must be broke down by EU with economic penalties, either accept the migrants or pay the migrant taxes, They cannot expect from Italy ,Greece and Germany and couple of nations to accommodate all people. Migrants would like to go England , sure but that is not possible, This is EU and you have to go where we allocate you.
EU has a arduous task in their hands otherwise Migrations effects has already very well written in Europe's history.
For this upheaval , EU should be gracious to Bush/ Cheney Administration.
So If EU accepts the Refugees and migrants as they accepted the Euro currency down the road very big crisis expecting them.
This needs a extremely comprehensive approach years to come, stopping all moving people in Italy, Greece, wherever they land first, accommodating, sorting and registering and allocating, not free roaming wherever they want to go.
Like Slovaks or other resisting members against the quota system , their resistance must be broke down by EU with economic penalties, either accept the migrants or pay the migrant taxes, They cannot expect from Italy ,Greece and Germany and couple of nations to accommodate all people. Migrants would like to go England , sure but that is not possible, This is EU and you have to go where we allocate you.
EU has a arduous task in their hands otherwise Migrations effects has already very well written in Europe's history.
For this upheaval , EU should be gracious to Bush/ Cheney Administration.
4
The balance between humanitarian aid and anti-west expansion is ever present. Islamic doctrine is not one of assimilation, and embraces very different laws and social rules incompatible with, and often contemptuous of, the free human spirit of western society. Makes it really tough to be generous, loving, and human when your freedom and way of life may ultimately be threatened. Despite the incredible human tragedy many Islamic militants applaud the migration and encourage it as the inevitable expansion of Islam.
9
And so many people are responding from their hearts! many beautiful stories of the human spirit and warm welcomes, for example in this story of 10,000 Icelanders opening their homes to refugees:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/08/31/_10_000_icelanders_off...
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/08/31/_10_000_icelanders_off...
The commitment may well fray.
The EU was set up to benefit member nations, to present a stronger unity against large economies (US, Russia and maybe others too), and to have a customs union among member countries. Some members tried a common currency, which has not always worked for every member.
The Schengen Agreement was to enable member EU nations' citizens to move around within the EU without visas. Once legally within the EU foreigners could move around the EU without visas in each state. The Schengen Agreement was not for the convenience of illegal entrants to the EU. But once it was set up, EU countries had no interior border checkpoints to catch illegals to the EU.
The EU was ready to take a trickle of asylum seekers. It could handle a trickle, but now faces an invasion. This is no mere migration (movement) as occurred 3,000 to 3,500 years ago into a Europe of small native populations living in rude settlements.
This is like the invasions of the Alans, Vandals, Goths, Ostrogoths, Visigoths, and Huns. People who politely call it immigration (an orderly process) need to look at the phenomenon differently. Tsipras, Merkel, Hollande, Cameron, and other leaders face losing their jobs if they don't halt the invasion.
Being sth of an anarchist, Tsipras may welcome being able to direct chaos he hopes to direct to Germany as pay-back.
The EU was set up to benefit member nations, to present a stronger unity against large economies (US, Russia and maybe others too), and to have a customs union among member countries. Some members tried a common currency, which has not always worked for every member.
The Schengen Agreement was to enable member EU nations' citizens to move around within the EU without visas. Once legally within the EU foreigners could move around the EU without visas in each state. The Schengen Agreement was not for the convenience of illegal entrants to the EU. But once it was set up, EU countries had no interior border checkpoints to catch illegals to the EU.
The EU was ready to take a trickle of asylum seekers. It could handle a trickle, but now faces an invasion. This is no mere migration (movement) as occurred 3,000 to 3,500 years ago into a Europe of small native populations living in rude settlements.
This is like the invasions of the Alans, Vandals, Goths, Ostrogoths, Visigoths, and Huns. People who politely call it immigration (an orderly process) need to look at the phenomenon differently. Tsipras, Merkel, Hollande, Cameron, and other leaders face losing their jobs if they don't halt the invasion.
Being sth of an anarchist, Tsipras may welcome being able to direct chaos he hopes to direct to Germany as pay-back.
8
Refugees have developed a sense of entitlement. They believed they are entitled to go anywhere and live anywhere in Europe they want. They feel entitled to ride trains for free, cross any border without hindrance and when settled in the country of their choice,. They feel entitled to benefits of free food, clothing and housing. If their family was left behind they feel they have a right to demand that the some government or organization bring them to join the refugee at the expense of the government or organization.
Refugees used to be glad for anything given to them. Now, like the rest of us, they have joined the entitlement society. How did this happen? Well look no farther than the UN and the UNHCR, and joined with them Amnesty International.
Many of these people, esp. Syrians were settled in Refugee camps in Turkey. They left because they wanted better benefits and have no intention of ever returning to rebuild Syrian when the war is over. Also a lot are from Africa and are simply ignoring all the safe zones in the continent to get to Libya to get a boat for Italy.
We need to be honest, a lot of these people are simply economic migrants, looking to settle in a wealthy country where the benefits are generous. Often they will lie to try and get Asylum. They are heading for Germany because it is the wealthiest country in the EU and has generous benefits. Angela Merkel needs to change some of those laws.
Refugees used to be glad for anything given to them. Now, like the rest of us, they have joined the entitlement society. How did this happen? Well look no farther than the UN and the UNHCR, and joined with them Amnesty International.
Many of these people, esp. Syrians were settled in Refugee camps in Turkey. They left because they wanted better benefits and have no intention of ever returning to rebuild Syrian when the war is over. Also a lot are from Africa and are simply ignoring all the safe zones in the continent to get to Libya to get a boat for Italy.
We need to be honest, a lot of these people are simply economic migrants, looking to settle in a wealthy country where the benefits are generous. Often they will lie to try and get Asylum. They are heading for Germany because it is the wealthiest country in the EU and has generous benefits. Angela Merkel needs to change some of those laws.
14
The West and israel created this great mess by invasions and wars, by removing Saddam Hossein in Iraq,Khaddafy in Libya and Talibans in Afghnistan etc.etc. under the fake flag of imposing its so called Democracy and now should have the moral obligation to solve this huge mess as they did in Japan and Germany after World War2.
2
Merkel is the coddler-in-chief.
3
Israel did not remove Saddam Hussein, Bush and the neo-cons did. And then Bush continued to blow the bubble by labeling "democracy" as the solution for all ills. And look what "people's power" (aka arab spring) brings us now.
Mrs Merkel said "If Europe fails on the question of refugees, if this close link with universal civil rights is broken, then it won't be the Europe we wished for,"
What she doesn't know or blindly not willing to acknowledge is that letting these people in, with their culture background and religious fanaticism, with their always no 1 loyalty to religion not state, with their spelled out loud hatred towards anyone who is different, then all Europe will transform into ugliness that no human being wished for!
Merkel, this is not poetic, this is stupidity that Germans and whole Europe will pay for. Wake Up
What she doesn't know or blindly not willing to acknowledge is that letting these people in, with their culture background and religious fanaticism, with their always no 1 loyalty to religion not state, with their spelled out loud hatred towards anyone who is different, then all Europe will transform into ugliness that no human being wished for!
Merkel, this is not poetic, this is stupidity that Germans and whole Europe will pay for. Wake Up
12
Her wish and her dream is most Europeans' worst nightmare.
3
Europe has been sending hundreds of millions of it's people to continents previously inhabited by non-christian people and completely changed the culture of those continents. North and South America and Australasia are now dominated by People of European origin. It would be far fetched to say that a few thousand poor people fleeing a war situation are somehow going to change the culture of Europe when Europe is still overwhelmingly Christian/Caucasian. There is no evidence to suggest Muslims are taking over Europe when only 2% of the EU's population is Muslim. And definitely not in the way Europeans took over the Americas, Australia and much of the Pacific islands. And Muslim neighbors of Syria like Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan have actually been taking millions Syrian refugees an cannot take anymore.
2
The civil war in Syria has been going on for over four years - what set off this exodus now? Was it ISIS advances, Europe's talk of accepting 40,000 refugees, news stories about successful resettlement in Europe, or manipulation of migrants/refugees with the intent to push the West to intervene militarily in Syria)? Why are so many Afghans and Iraqis also arriving at this point? Please do more in-depth interviews of the refugees and migrants themselves. What made them decide to leave for Europe, why now?
8
No need to interview with refugees to learn why they leave where they live.
Syria, Iraq, Libya, Somali, Sudan, Pakistan and Afghanistan is a place where Mad max movie life style become reality, who would like to live in Mad Max reality? Not everybody
The people in Europe, Canada and USA would like to join ISIS , yes they want to go these places , because they can elaborately burn people and upload videos to Internet.
Ordinary people in Islamic world who live in that nations clearly knew that they are running away from HELL.
The hell which has no end in sight. i.e. Afghanistan
Who would like to stay in a country
rape, torture, starvation level hunger, aimlessness, no-education, misogynist, no job, rampant killing and slavery is the prevalent.
I believe every body knows why they are moving Christian world, lets don't distort the worlds, Millions of Muslims would like to move Christian world where peace and prosperity is exist.
Irony it is , this is the very same pretext why people joined Crusades 1000 years ago.
Muslims cannot bear to live in Islamic world, period.
Syria, Iraq, Libya, Somali, Sudan, Pakistan and Afghanistan is a place where Mad max movie life style become reality, who would like to live in Mad Max reality? Not everybody
The people in Europe, Canada and USA would like to join ISIS , yes they want to go these places , because they can elaborately burn people and upload videos to Internet.
Ordinary people in Islamic world who live in that nations clearly knew that they are running away from HELL.
The hell which has no end in sight. i.e. Afghanistan
Who would like to stay in a country
rape, torture, starvation level hunger, aimlessness, no-education, misogynist, no job, rampant killing and slavery is the prevalent.
I believe every body knows why they are moving Christian world, lets don't distort the worlds, Millions of Muslims would like to move Christian world where peace and prosperity is exist.
Irony it is , this is the very same pretext why people joined Crusades 1000 years ago.
Muslims cannot bear to live in Islamic world, period.
1
Muslims cannot bear to live in Islamic world that they themselves helped create and are trying to bring that barbaric world to First World countries, who permit this massive influx at their peril.
4
A friend's mother who is elderly and retired, and lives in Germany in a small town, has experienced the beginning of the negative side of the overwhelming tide of this illegal immigration. Her town is now about 1/2 immigrant and petty theft and property destruction are starting to become the norm in an area that never had any before. This is without much of the rest of their families coming over as most are younger males.
She wonders what, exactly, is her responsibility to house, feed and support these people, and why crime has gone up with no consequences. Like others, she is not racist nor unsympathetic, but her elected representatives have abandoned her in her hour of need and she feels very vulnerable in her old age.
How about doing a story about that, NYT? Or does that not fit into your narrative of loving any and all illegal immigrants (referred to as undocumented, refugees, migrants, etc.) and ignoring the bad and unsustainable effects?
She wonders what, exactly, is her responsibility to house, feed and support these people, and why crime has gone up with no consequences. Like others, she is not racist nor unsympathetic, but her elected representatives have abandoned her in her hour of need and she feels very vulnerable in her old age.
How about doing a story about that, NYT? Or does that not fit into your narrative of loving any and all illegal immigrants (referred to as undocumented, refugees, migrants, etc.) and ignoring the bad and unsustainable effects?
34
Your friend's elderly mother seems to be experiencing the same sort of troubles that long-time residents of Duisburg are complaining about. The German press is reporting that residents, especially those living in its Marxloh neighborhood, don't feel safe and no longer go out at night, and that criminal family clans intimidate local residents, business owners and police. The press calls it a "No-go-Area" encompassing a Kurdish street, a Romanian street, and zones controlled by Lebanese crime families. I found no stories in English about the situation, so perhaps the New York Times could publish the first!
9
There were massmigrations before. The Mongols and later the Turks. They advanced as far as Wienna. There must have been domestic reasons that impelled them to advance so far from their borders. Eventually some were absorbed in the West and the rest retreated to where they came from.
Today is not much different. Before they opened the way by swinging the sword and now by the great mass of their defenseless bodies. Can they be absorbed or will they be repulsed?
Why is this only a problem for Europe? Obviously only because it is easier to get there. But if the choice is absorbtion, there need to be dispertion. Why don´t other countries-Canada, the USA, Australia, Mexico, Brazil and so on, participate? There could be a worldwide quota system and who goes where decided by lottery. There would be no choice but to go there, or back to where they came from. Won´t be easy to make this work.
The other way is to make the places from where the migrants are coming from habitable again. Recolonize them by armed force and administer the system until they learn to live in peace with each other. Spend money to rebuild. Repatriate all of them. And pay for all this by extracting and selling their oil. (Trump thought of this)
Today is not much different. Before they opened the way by swinging the sword and now by the great mass of their defenseless bodies. Can they be absorbed or will they be repulsed?
Why is this only a problem for Europe? Obviously only because it is easier to get there. But if the choice is absorbtion, there need to be dispertion. Why don´t other countries-Canada, the USA, Australia, Mexico, Brazil and so on, participate? There could be a worldwide quota system and who goes where decided by lottery. There would be no choice but to go there, or back to where they came from. Won´t be easy to make this work.
The other way is to make the places from where the migrants are coming from habitable again. Recolonize them by armed force and administer the system until they learn to live in peace with each other. Spend money to rebuild. Repatriate all of them. And pay for all this by extracting and selling their oil. (Trump thought of this)
6
While so many here are blaming these desperate people there are still people with compassion in Europe.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34100662
http://www.reuters.com/video/2015/09/01/thousands-in-vienna-rally-in-sup...
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34100662
http://www.reuters.com/video/2015/09/01/thousands-in-vienna-rally-in-sup...
1
Europe must look in the mirror and resist political correctness. However, that is difficult as we've lost our ability to speak the truth in the face of any criticism no matter how trite or wrongly placed.
Stop the illegal immigrants now, even if it means moving all military to the borders. Even if it means guns are fired. You are under attack and must respond. To say it will go away, or somehow the EU can just absorb these economic illegals, is nonsense. But the other reality the EU must contend with, and again it goes back to PC, is the fact that Muslims come because they know they not only will be taken care of under welfare laws (completely absent in their countries of origin), but because they know the EU must support their 'religious freedoms' and take that to mean the EU will have to change, not the other way around.
Muslims come to transform Europe to Islam, which is another reason why the Muslim countries that should be caring for these immigrants is turning their eye. The hope, the plan is to turn the world to Islam; it's part of their beliefs. And if you are not Muslim, you have no right to exist.
I know this sounds paranoid, but it's a fact. Look at history, go to a Mosque (if you're male), and listen to the preaching. The West must act now, and violence may be it's only choice.
Stop the illegal immigrants now, even if it means moving all military to the borders. Even if it means guns are fired. You are under attack and must respond. To say it will go away, or somehow the EU can just absorb these economic illegals, is nonsense. But the other reality the EU must contend with, and again it goes back to PC, is the fact that Muslims come because they know they not only will be taken care of under welfare laws (completely absent in their countries of origin), but because they know the EU must support their 'religious freedoms' and take that to mean the EU will have to change, not the other way around.
Muslims come to transform Europe to Islam, which is another reason why the Muslim countries that should be caring for these immigrants is turning their eye. The hope, the plan is to turn the world to Islam; it's part of their beliefs. And if you are not Muslim, you have no right to exist.
I know this sounds paranoid, but it's a fact. Look at history, go to a Mosque (if you're male), and listen to the preaching. The West must act now, and violence may be it's only choice.
23
The definition of these people means life or death. They are "refugees" (as Merkel indicates), not "migrants" - the former group escapes war/oppression in desperation en masse, the latter goes to look for better opportunities without the threat of death and persecution back home hanging over their heads...
Meanwhile, need to address the core issues causing this flood of refugees in order to stem the tide...
Meanwhile, need to address the core issues causing this flood of refugees in order to stem the tide...
Uh no they are NOT all refugees (under the legal definition of refugee)
BBC: Spain finds Guinea migrant hidden behind car engine (actually 2 - other was under a car seat. No war in Guinea
The Local: "Renzi under pressure over brutal Sicily murder" Migrant from the Ivory Coast was arrested for the murder of an elderly Sicilian couple - he went back to the migrant shelter with his stolen loot & bloody clothes. No war in the Ivory Coast
BBC: Migrant crisis: Hungary rail station move sparks protests - look at the photos. The one protesting migrant is either Asian or EuroAsian (not likely in Syria or Afghanistan!)
LA TImes yesterday profiled a man who was born in Syria but has lived in Dubai for the past 11 years running a cellphone store - thought he would like Holland better so he left a wife & teenage kids & came in through Greece heading north. No danger - just an economic migrant. (At a Macedonian way station, Syrian and other migrants focus on the path ahead ) No war in Dubai
Many have ditched their IDs, there is no evidence of their origin.
The 71 in the van in Austria can't be identified because they had no ID
The capper comes from Frontex (EU border agency) - "A market in fake Syrian passports has sprung up, particularly in Turkey, to help migrants & refugees enter the EU, Frontex said ...People who use fake Syrian passports often speak Arabic. They may come from North Africa or the Middle East but they have the profile of economic migrants" (UK Yahoo News)
BBC: Spain finds Guinea migrant hidden behind car engine (actually 2 - other was under a car seat. No war in Guinea
The Local: "Renzi under pressure over brutal Sicily murder" Migrant from the Ivory Coast was arrested for the murder of an elderly Sicilian couple - he went back to the migrant shelter with his stolen loot & bloody clothes. No war in the Ivory Coast
BBC: Migrant crisis: Hungary rail station move sparks protests - look at the photos. The one protesting migrant is either Asian or EuroAsian (not likely in Syria or Afghanistan!)
LA TImes yesterday profiled a man who was born in Syria but has lived in Dubai for the past 11 years running a cellphone store - thought he would like Holland better so he left a wife & teenage kids & came in through Greece heading north. No danger - just an economic migrant. (At a Macedonian way station, Syrian and other migrants focus on the path ahead ) No war in Dubai
Many have ditched their IDs, there is no evidence of their origin.
The 71 in the van in Austria can't be identified because they had no ID
The capper comes from Frontex (EU border agency) - "A market in fake Syrian passports has sprung up, particularly in Turkey, to help migrants & refugees enter the EU, Frontex said ...People who use fake Syrian passports often speak Arabic. They may come from North Africa or the Middle East but they have the profile of economic migrants" (UK Yahoo News)
6
A former colleague of my husband, (Lebanese working in a well paid teaching job in an International school in the Middle East) and her husband (Syrian employed in same Middle Eastern country as a dental technician) decided they would try to seek asylum based on the situation in Syria. She would come to my husband asking which of three countries they should apply to: Canada, Sweden or Germany. They ended up taking their son and flying to Germany where they planned to seek refugee status. They had everything worked out using advice from friends on how to best present themselves to the authorities, stashing cash reserves etc with family and friends so they could claim they had nothing. When they had gained refugee status, the plan was to arrange for money and goods to be shipped to them.
Not everybody presents themselves honestly and people lie. And there will be plenty of information on the migrant/refugee network on what you need to do or say to gain asylum. This couple were not refugees, they were migrants. And their actions do a disservice to genuine refugees.
Not everybody presents themselves honestly and people lie. And there will be plenty of information on the migrant/refugee network on what you need to do or say to gain asylum. This couple were not refugees, they were migrants. And their actions do a disservice to genuine refugees.
UNESCO notes that many of these are really "refugees," not "migrants." The Times continues to call them "migrants." Perhaps this is worth some thought.
In fact these people are illegal migrants and nothing else.
Even the UNHCR calls the as such as they are entering the EU from a safe country and are then migrating from one safe country into another to shop for the best social welfare system.
All without any form of legal visa and absolutely no ground for asylum but paying tens of thousands of USD for being smuggled across EU borders.
Whenever I have get some of my business partners for a meeting into the EU I have accept and fulfil a myriad of conditions and laws for getting them in for just a few days, sometimes only hours.
While these illegal migrants simply shout "Asyl" and have the stupid unbelievers in Europe run and be of service.
It is THE shame of Europe to give up just because stupid EU politicians and some voter have replaced their access to reality by p.c. and ideology.
Europe is failing it's own people for the comfort of illegal migrants that want to change Europe to become just as failed as the places they come from.
Even the UNHCR calls the as such as they are entering the EU from a safe country and are then migrating from one safe country into another to shop for the best social welfare system.
All without any form of legal visa and absolutely no ground for asylum but paying tens of thousands of USD for being smuggled across EU borders.
Whenever I have get some of my business partners for a meeting into the EU I have accept and fulfil a myriad of conditions and laws for getting them in for just a few days, sometimes only hours.
While these illegal migrants simply shout "Asyl" and have the stupid unbelievers in Europe run and be of service.
It is THE shame of Europe to give up just because stupid EU politicians and some voter have replaced their access to reality by p.c. and ideology.
Europe is failing it's own people for the comfort of illegal migrants that want to change Europe to become just as failed as the places they come from.
4
The angry migrants protesting at a Budapest train station is an indication of what is to come...migrants believe they are entitled to move to any country they wish and choose the country that offers the most generous welfare subsidies.
Soon, the protests will turn violent and Europe will see how their generosity will be rewarded.
Soon, the protests will turn violent and Europe will see how their generosity will be rewarded.
22
The mass emigration that is coming to europe should be shared with all the world´s developed countries les individualistic and more solidarity with all the world´s refugees
1
Norway will cease being Norway if it becomes 40% African/Middle Eastern. Same goes for Germany, the UK, France, Holland, Sweden, etc.
These countries will look back in 25 years and wonder why in the world they implemented such lax immigration policies.
These countries will look back in 25 years and wonder why in the world they implemented such lax immigration policies.
18
Still remember the great economist,Milton Friedman's statement."You can't have unlimited immigration into a welfare state".Europe is learning it's true and California is going to learn it,next recession.
8
People can have short memories. In 1956 Canada admitted 56,000 Hungarian refugees fleeing the Soviet suppression of the Hungarian revolution, and the USA admitted a great many more. Those refugees made significant contributions to our societies and economies. None of today's refugees from Syria etc. are dumb enough to target remaining in Hungary - they are looking for better. The Hungarian government should be gracious enough to just let them pass through. The government's current policies and behaviour are expensive, counter-productive and a disgrace to human civilization.
Hungarian people's values are much more aligned with the core values and liberties of Canada and the Western world. This is a different situation. Europe is facing a massive influx of people, mostly Muslim men, who come with ancient beliefs and almost opposite values from Europeans, which many will try to force upon their host countries in the long run. The threat of losing their cultural identities is what scares the people of the EU. And then there is the immense cost of housing, feeding and schooling these new immigrants when almost all of that is traditionally given away for free.
13
If the Hungarian peoples' values are aligned with the core values of the "Western World" the Hungarian government clearly isn't reflecting the values of its people. All we're seeing is a massive display of extreme xenophobia visited upon a group of desperate people who don't even want to stay there - all they want is to pass through. There is no threat to anyone's cultural values or pocketbooks in Hungary. Where the real "threats" may be are in the countries finally receiving these migrants - Germany, Austria, Sweden, etc., and all of them are taking a far more humanitarian and generous approach to this issue than is the Government of Hungary, which really has no skin and nothing else to lose in this issue.
In fact, very many of the migrants are not from Syria. Here is a link to an article containing a chart from the German government, detailing the countries from which the migrants who have sought asylum come from for the period January - June 2015:
http://m.welt.de/debatte/henryk-m-broder/article145576852/Wer-nur-Mitlei...
http://m.welt.de/debatte/henryk-m-broder/article145576852/Wer-nur-Mitlei...
11
Look it is not, it will.
In Turkey almost 2 million refugee is waiting slowly move to Europe, be wise it is not about Syrians but Syrians will be constitute to large amount years to come.
In Turkey almost 2 million refugee is waiting slowly move to Europe, be wise it is not about Syrians but Syrians will be constitute to large amount years to come.
The dream of open borders was never thought of as relating to nationals from non-member states of the EU and was intended to apply only to people who were lawfully in the EU.
7
You really don't get anything, what lawfully means, when millions are on the move, EU is up against a human catastrophe, people once landing on a rock belong to Europe , it is done.
Wake up, there is nothing to do be lawfully in EU, this people needs to be converted legal individual one way or another , or face the terror, public disturbance and European anger.
Wake up, there is nothing to do be lawfully in EU, this people needs to be converted legal individual one way or another , or face the terror, public disturbance and European anger.
Hundreds of thousands of men running away from conflict to protect their families. Has EU considered providing safe refuge camps for the women and children...and training and supervision to send the men back to their homelands to fight the terrorists and thugs! If America were invaded, I think I would stay and fight. Why should Americans die when the men themselves won't fight to protect their homes and families?
9
For more than 30 years climate scientists as well respected demographers have been been predicting what we are seeing today on the southern borders of the USA and Europe. The effects of global warming are already with us, and they are acknowledged as such, at least in liberal circles. But the scourge of population explosion, which causes the depletion of world water resources, is hardly discussed. From world population of ca. 2 billions in 1960, we now have 8 billions. Notice that the migration is from Africa, the middle east, south America and south Asia. All these countries have experienced unsustainable population growth. The result are sectarian wars, on diminishing resources. The victims of these wars are now flooding Europe,
USA and Australia.
USA and Australia.
5
This is the problem popularized by Paul and Anne Ehrlich in their book "The Population Bomb" coming true before our eyes. The underlying problem for all of this is too many people in lands with too few resources. The result is intense competition (i.e bloody war) for the power to allocate scarce resources. Allowing these folks to flood into Europe will only transfer the problem. It's heartbreaking, but in the end the probem will have to be solved in Syria, Somalia and Afghanistan. In my personal opinion, Europeans are allowing memories of World War Two's refugee crisis cloud their judgement. This is NOT the same. I hate to say it, but most of these people do not come from societies that value human liberty and the rule of law. While no one can dispute that there was widespread lawlessness after World War Two in Europe, everyone wanted to return to a rule of law. Here, not so much. Many of these people come from societies where the first response to settling a conflict is to grab an AK-47 from the closet and women had better remain "in their place" or face honour killings. No thanks. Sorry.
19
These Muslims want to escape the Muslim world where governance and safety remain impossible to accomplish. When they settle they demand Sharia law, more family members and an Islamic Europe.
22
When are we ever going to hold the wealthy countries of the Middle East responsible? Why are they not welcoming the muslim refugees with open arms? How do they always manage to do nothing to help the world conditions yet the US must always support them in their myopic, misogynistic & in humane ways?
24
Maybe we will find out that Turkey, and Lebanon, are expediting their refugees out of the Middle East. This wave of people are getting help, and not just from smugglers. And how do they pay for train tickets in Europe?
2
You cannot blame for them too, in their hands Millions, numbers are multiplied by 10.
Have you ever look after 1 or 2 million refugees in USA history?
What you are expecting from Lebanon, Jordan, Turkey.
Why there is no criticism for godless pharaohs of Saudi kingdom , because they are US best ally in the middle east.
Even , If this is a humanitarian crisis, why Israel is not taking some refugees.
Have you ever look after 1 or 2 million refugees in USA history?
What you are expecting from Lebanon, Jordan, Turkey.
Why there is no criticism for godless pharaohs of Saudi kingdom , because they are US best ally in the middle east.
Even , If this is a humanitarian crisis, why Israel is not taking some refugees.
Israel quietly takes in some Syrian Druze. To preach taking in all types of hostile Muslims is ridiculous. And how would they make a living?
I am genuinely sympathetic to the plight of people fleeing the Syrian civil war and ISIS. At the same time, I am genuinely concerned that this mass migration, the largest in Europe since the end of the war, will lead to a backlash among the more xenophobic elements in Europe.
It is one big mess and I don't presume to have all the answers. I think a good start would be to sort out the genuine refugees from the economic migrants. For the former, providing a temporary haven from problems in their home countries is simply the right thing to do and one would assume that most such individuals will want to return home when conditions are safe. For the economic migrants, I think some difficult decisions lie ahead as to whether they should be permitted to stay. In the meantime, Merkel is right that the burden should be shared among the individual EU countries.
There is also an element of great unfairness in all this as Europe is being forced to handle the fallout from some disastrous policies that originated here in the USA. The role of the Iraq War in destabilizing the region has much to do with the origins of the problem. It seems only right that the US should be shouldering some of the burden here, perhaps by taking some in or by sharing some of the costs involved. As a member of NATO, the US could also deploy some military resources to help patrol the southern borders of Europe.
It is one big mess and I don't presume to have all the answers. I think a good start would be to sort out the genuine refugees from the economic migrants. For the former, providing a temporary haven from problems in their home countries is simply the right thing to do and one would assume that most such individuals will want to return home when conditions are safe. For the economic migrants, I think some difficult decisions lie ahead as to whether they should be permitted to stay. In the meantime, Merkel is right that the burden should be shared among the individual EU countries.
There is also an element of great unfairness in all this as Europe is being forced to handle the fallout from some disastrous policies that originated here in the USA. The role of the Iraq War in destabilizing the region has much to do with the origins of the problem. It seems only right that the US should be shouldering some of the burden here, perhaps by taking some in or by sharing some of the costs involved. As a member of NATO, the US could also deploy some military resources to help patrol the southern borders of Europe.
26
@Matt, you have to realize that these "refugees," genuine or otherwise, do not just want a "haven." That's why, unlike refugee crisis in decades past when they would move to neighboring countries to await their return home, they want only the best. That's why none of them want to stay in Macedonia or Hungary or Serbia, they ALL want to go Germany. And for those who rush the shores of Greece and Italy, they don't want to stay in Greece or Italy either (nor even France), because they all set their sight on UK or Germany.
The point of history we may look back on as the beginning of the invasion of ISIS into Europe as they hide in plain sight, and people will ponder how it was able to happen so easily?
21
If you let people walk from Greece to England like what is happening now, it is exactly happens ISIS moves in too.
This is utter negligence of EU to this huge human movement.
Not only ISIS, these people are bringing you disease too, they were not vaccinated, no body is even considering them to pass through simple check up.
Practically it is a disaster in many ways.
and you must spend money on it to contain, barbed wires is a very cheap trick and useless.
This is utter negligence of EU to this huge human movement.
Not only ISIS, these people are bringing you disease too, they were not vaccinated, no body is even considering them to pass through simple check up.
Practically it is a disaster in many ways.
and you must spend money on it to contain, barbed wires is a very cheap trick and useless.
I don't see how any borders will be able to stand. They really will have to become more United to save everyone.
Allowing unlimited streams of immigrants to enter Europe and the U.S. cannot continue without destroying these countries in the long term. Money should be sent to help the sending countries (including Mexico) and neighboring countries who are sheltering refugees in the MIddle East. And the world powers must band together to end the war in Syria and defeat ISIS. Finally, let's provide free contraceptives for all people on the planet.
8
Islam will not allow women to use contraceptives, as women's bodies belong to their male relatives.
2
Are you kidding?
Move to Europe and you'll see very quickly that the MAJORITY of these people are claiming asylum not because their lives are actually in danger in their home country, not because they are being persecuted -- but because they can take advantage of these ridiculously lax and misguided immigration policies and QUALIFY FOR BENEFITS that are PAID FOR by EU taxpayers.
Move to Europe and you'll see very quickly that the MAJORITY of these people are claiming asylum not because their lives are actually in danger in their home country, not because they are being persecuted -- but because they can take advantage of these ridiculously lax and misguided immigration policies and QUALIFY FOR BENEFITS that are PAID FOR by EU taxpayers.
21
To those who wonder where the women and children are: don't worry about them... They'll come later when the males will have forced their way and stay and will demand Family reunification. This has been going on since the 80s in Europe.
17
Whose mistake is that?
The person who landed on a rock with dinghy boat or EU. Go figure.
because this negligent act f northern EU, Italy has a government policy , literally they are letting all people run away from facilities and go wherever in Europe
The person who landed on a rock with dinghy boat or EU. Go figure.
because this negligent act f northern EU, Italy has a government policy , literally they are letting all people run away from facilities and go wherever in Europe
Ditto for the U.S., Canada, Australia, and new Zealand as well as Argentina and Uruguay among the New World predominantly European descended nations.
I complement the writers of serious thoughtful comment which is a welcome change from those who just want to fire cheap shots at their favorite targets. This is how I see it:
1. What matters is not yesterday but the present and the future.
2. What matters is strategically planned action not endless procrastinating talk.
3. What matters is for every culture to thrive in its own traditional habitat.
4. What matters is not to yearn for the impossible but to pursue the possible.
5. What matters is to make the perpretation of incitement to hatred a crime against humanity.
6. What matters is economic development and the creation of better employment and quality of life, not boycotts which always hurt those most in need and are an act of war.
7. What matters is not taking sides and imposing conditions, but by bringing sides together and offering incentives, they work out their own solutions to their mutual satisfaction.
8. What matters is making religion a personal choice with an important role in civilsed society but with no role in politics or government.
9. What matters is that the United Nations performs the role it was created for in maintaining a peaceful world and not indulge in accusatory declarations favoring one faction or another which furthers even more conflict.
10. What matters is to stop the supply of arms whether overt or elicit to aggressive entities except to countries' legitimate defence and civl order requirements.
TEMPORARY MEASURES BECOME PERMANENT ONES.
1. What matters is not yesterday but the present and the future.
2. What matters is strategically planned action not endless procrastinating talk.
3. What matters is for every culture to thrive in its own traditional habitat.
4. What matters is not to yearn for the impossible but to pursue the possible.
5. What matters is to make the perpretation of incitement to hatred a crime against humanity.
6. What matters is economic development and the creation of better employment and quality of life, not boycotts which always hurt those most in need and are an act of war.
7. What matters is not taking sides and imposing conditions, but by bringing sides together and offering incentives, they work out their own solutions to their mutual satisfaction.
8. What matters is making religion a personal choice with an important role in civilsed society but with no role in politics or government.
9. What matters is that the United Nations performs the role it was created for in maintaining a peaceful world and not indulge in accusatory declarations favoring one faction or another which furthers even more conflict.
10. What matters is to stop the supply of arms whether overt or elicit to aggressive entities except to countries' legitimate defence and civl order requirements.
TEMPORARY MEASURES BECOME PERMANENT ONES.
2
A new opinion survey shows that more than half of all Europeans believe there are too many immigrants in their countries and that immigration is having a negative impact on their lives.
The findings – which come as Europeans are waking up to the consequences of decades of mass immigration from Muslim countries – point to a growing disconnect between European voters and their political masters regarding multicultural policies that encourage Muslim immigrants to remain segregated rather than become integrated into their host nations.
The survey results mirror the findings of dozens of other recent polls. Taken together, they provide ample empirical evidence that scepticism about Muslim immigration is not limited to a “right-wing” political fringe, as proponents of multiculturalism often assert. Mainstream voters across the entire political spectrum are now expressing concerns about the role of Islam in Europe.
http://napoleonlive.info/did-you-know/decline-of-european-civilization-2/
The findings – which come as Europeans are waking up to the consequences of decades of mass immigration from Muslim countries – point to a growing disconnect between European voters and their political masters regarding multicultural policies that encourage Muslim immigrants to remain segregated rather than become integrated into their host nations.
The survey results mirror the findings of dozens of other recent polls. Taken together, they provide ample empirical evidence that scepticism about Muslim immigration is not limited to a “right-wing” political fringe, as proponents of multiculturalism often assert. Mainstream voters across the entire political spectrum are now expressing concerns about the role of Islam in Europe.
http://napoleonlive.info/did-you-know/decline-of-european-civilization-2/
13
Politicians do not protect the citizens, but protect anyone that might be able to vote for or against them one day. Europe has been the leader in political correctness, a very bad tenant.
But if you are suggesting that it's the politicians that promote segregation then you have lost me. The illegal immigrants, all, have no desire to integrate. Their only desire is to get money and shelter while they insist that their host country become Islamic. That is the absolute truth.
But if you are suggesting that it's the politicians that promote segregation then you have lost me. The illegal immigrants, all, have no desire to integrate. Their only desire is to get money and shelter while they insist that their host country become Islamic. That is the absolute truth.
"too many immigrants in their countries and that immigration is having a negative impact on their lives."
Polls in Switzerland comes to my mind. A major source of mass immigration to Switzerland is Germany. But that high-German speaking reduce quality of life of German speakers with a Swiss passport is well known phenomenon in Switzerland. No news.
Polls in Switzerland comes to my mind. A major source of mass immigration to Switzerland is Germany. But that high-German speaking reduce quality of life of German speakers with a Swiss passport is well known phenomenon in Switzerland. No news.
Is the invasion of Europe increasing Europe's carbon footprint?
This invasion is the direct result of policies of Obama and Clinton. So too is the story today concerning rising murder rates in our Democratically led cities. When you guys st the NYT learn?
1
David
and you are implying that it is nothing to do with 2003 Iraq invasion by Bush/Cheney policy.
Brilliant.
and you are implying that it is nothing to do with 2003 Iraq invasion by Bush/Cheney policy.
Brilliant.
Looking at the pictures of the hundreds of thousands of migrants. . .many are men who look strong and healthy. . . why are they not staying in their own country and slugging it out as others have done and sacrificed in other countries during WWI and WWII? One doesn't run from a conflict. . . one runs towards it .
14
The old and infirm were not able to make the trip. Those who migrated also had a few coins to rub together to pay for food, clothing, transit, and the occasional bribe.
My family tree is filled with people who came to the United States as young, vigorous people. Anna, I'd bet that your family history would show the same thing.
My family tree is filled with people who came to the United States as young, vigorous people. Anna, I'd bet that your family history would show the same thing.
When they settle, they can call for their families to join them and cannot be stopped. It's the law. Each family, with 5 or more kids, will swallow the EU and we will see what Islam is really about.
1
I am happy to know that your "family tree is filled with people who came to the United States as young, vigorous people, Gary". . . it's what has made our country strong and united. I'll bet a dollar to a donut when called upon to step up to the plate in defense of our Nation your family did. . . mine did from the Revolutionary War, WWII, Korea and Viet Nam. . .the latter being my husband who is buried at Arlington. My point is, like the three young Americans plus Brit who brought down a terrorist on a Paris train, ran toward the conflict. . not away from it.
3
Excellent reports by NYT's journalists monitor this biblical exodus in detail including the way businesses are sprouting up along migrants' journeys; how peddlers are stationed on the way selling them food and essential wares at reasonable prices; how organized crime is actually supervising their movements step by step, territory apportioned accordingly, "escorting" them border to border. All that to say that to me it looks very puzzling how the media is dealing with the issue: if you watch the news, images of desperate, unfortunate, grief-stricken refugees hit you in the face and gut, and conjure up immediate knee-jerk reactions skillfully exploited by demagogues and populists seeking the immediacy of it, while in reality everything is, yes very alarming socio-economically, but on a much slower pace. Think of movie-making: you watch the screen narrowing your 360° field of vision of your personal reality encapsulated and constricted. The written narrative on the contrary has a much more philosophical flare, and tells of how little oversights by the camera, written down can shape your viewpoint from different angles. I wonder: how much more are we - the general public- to be appendixes of the ones forging the future for us? News watching objectively is always sought after.
3
NYT headline " People flooding into Europe, and an inability to accommodate them in an organized way, may be starting to fray a commitment to erase old borders."
Piece lacking fundamental background context. The chaotic flow of hundred of thousands of refugees disembarking on European shores happens for specific reasons.
The most important one, the American/Israel-European attempt of regime change in Iraq, Syria, Libya and the consequent birth of the Islamic State.
Unfriendly dictatorships were replaced by war, social chaos and misery.
The Middle East and North Africa are now in a state of conflagration without end in sight. Open borders and domestic terrorism are negative spillover to hit EU member countries. The 2015 wave of refugees washing on European shores is just the beginning.
Piece lacking fundamental background context. The chaotic flow of hundred of thousands of refugees disembarking on European shores happens for specific reasons.
The most important one, the American/Israel-European attempt of regime change in Iraq, Syria, Libya and the consequent birth of the Islamic State.
Unfriendly dictatorships were replaced by war, social chaos and misery.
The Middle East and North Africa are now in a state of conflagration without end in sight. Open borders and domestic terrorism are negative spillover to hit EU member countries. The 2015 wave of refugees washing on European shores is just the beginning.
1
if we are going to subsidize these people, subsidize them in their home countries
most of the war zones where these people come from, are war zones of green in green, Muslims killing Muslims, and somehow it is the west's problem?
most of the war zones where these people come from, are war zones of green in green, Muslims killing Muslims, and somehow it is the west's problem?
6
What the heck is England, the Netherlands, Italy, France, Spain and Portugal doing not taking in migrants. These are the colonizers of the world who ruled over, tyrannically and/or exploitatively, three fourth of the world, its people and resources. They are responsible for much of the economic suffering, territorial struggles and ethnic clashes, that emerged, continued for a long time, and still continues even as countries gained independence. Why are they not taking in refugees and asylum seekers. Why is it always only Germany, which is one of few Western European countries that did not "colonize the world", and only attempted to expand its power in Europe during Hitler's regime. dumped with the task of taking in refugees and asylum seekers. And since the US played such a wonderful role (being sarcastic of course) in the Middle East...why are we not taking in more people and placing them in Republican strongholds like "Montana, Wyoming (Cheney's State), Idaho, Kentucky, Tennessee, etc.". Plenty of places there for refugee settlement or resettlement.
Stop thy hypocrisy: Come on England (or is that United Kingdom), Spain, Italy, the Netherlands, France, Portugal...do your part to take in at least 90% of the refugees and asylum seekers, and stop acting like colonial snobs.
Stop thy hypocrisy: Come on England (or is that United Kingdom), Spain, Italy, the Netherlands, France, Portugal...do your part to take in at least 90% of the refugees and asylum seekers, and stop acting like colonial snobs.
2
Not sure where on planet earth you are residing, but the UK and Netherlands are flooded with illegal or economic immigrants. Go to London and you will think you are in the Middle East; not kidding. France is the same, as is the Netherlands. Italy, Spain, etc.? The illegal immigrants do not want to stay there - not enough money to handle their required welfare. That is why they are stop over points.
Maybe you need to visit the EU.
Maybe you need to visit the EU.
1
What utter anti-White propaganda. Most of these colonies of the Old World were much better off under benevolent colonial regimes who brought law and order, peace, prosperity and sanitation in their wake. Now these people are living under oppressive regimes with collapsed economies and 50 + years after Europe withdrew from her erstwhile dependencies in Africa and Asia it is till the "White Man's Burden" and place to take in millions of economic migrants. I don't think so.
NYTimes coverage of the migration to Europe is superficial. It needs global context. Look at migration from South America and Mexico to the US. There are 2 components: push (terrible conditions in South America in part caused by the War on Drugs and it's empowerment of criminals and terrorists) and pull (US employers wanting submissive cheap labor). Take in the refugees and migrants? No way! Not even the children - especially not the children! Our mean spirited reaction was caused by de facto open borders for profit and scapegoating. Global context includes the Iraq war and the mess created by US and European reaction to "the Arab Spring".
Back to Europe. They had trouble with migrants, often came from former colonies, who did not assimilate and became an underclass (France has been in the papers recently). This happened in the US too, accompanied by prejudice that lasted a couple of generations. But we are a huge country with lots of space. Europe has small countries, and the refugees are from countries where there is a great and powerful social movement: Jihad. Look at what we did to our country in response to one, just one, major terrorist attack. The EU open border policy was created for internal traffic. They are freaking out over the humanitarioan horrors and have yet to look the problem in the face: jobs, social services, culture clash and security.
Limit globalization, the proliferation of weapons and war! Good luck with that.
Back to Europe. They had trouble with migrants, often came from former colonies, who did not assimilate and became an underclass (France has been in the papers recently). This happened in the US too, accompanied by prejudice that lasted a couple of generations. But we are a huge country with lots of space. Europe has small countries, and the refugees are from countries where there is a great and powerful social movement: Jihad. Look at what we did to our country in response to one, just one, major terrorist attack. The EU open border policy was created for internal traffic. They are freaking out over the humanitarioan horrors and have yet to look the problem in the face: jobs, social services, culture clash and security.
Limit globalization, the proliferation of weapons and war! Good luck with that.
5
I saw an interview with a young Syrian refugee whose family had first fled to the UAE one of the richest Arab states in the world. He stated that he could never become a citizen or go to college in the Emirates so he left his family to try to go overland through the Balkans to Europe. The rich Arab states have no interest in helping their fellow Muslims
18
War refugees should be housed regionally (close to their country of origin). Europe should try to work something out for Syrian war refugees with Jordan, Turkey, Armenia, or Tunesia.
Also, true war refugees should be content with peaceful shelter, which can be had in poorer countries along the route from Syria to Germany. This makes me question whether many of these people are really fleeing war in their neighborhood, or are just looking to take advantage of our generous Northern European welfare system.
Europe can't even fully employ and take care of its own population, who speak the local language. How can, and why should, it be expected to absorb an overwhelming number of economic immigrants who have nothing to contribute to and no cultural/ideological agreement with the society we Europeans have worked so hard to create? The best thing Europe can do is to collectively start paying to turn economic immigrants back, erring on the side of sending questionable status immigrants back to the region (again, Turkey, Jordan, etc., not Syria), and letting the word spread that the game is over. When the US economy crashed in '08, immigration from S. America plummeted once word got out that the economic opportunities of construction and farming in the US were drying up. Same principle will work here too.
Thanks, Obama, for your disastrous Middle East policy that (among a litany of other things) created this mess. -From someone who supported your candidacy twice.
Also, true war refugees should be content with peaceful shelter, which can be had in poorer countries along the route from Syria to Germany. This makes me question whether many of these people are really fleeing war in their neighborhood, or are just looking to take advantage of our generous Northern European welfare system.
Europe can't even fully employ and take care of its own population, who speak the local language. How can, and why should, it be expected to absorb an overwhelming number of economic immigrants who have nothing to contribute to and no cultural/ideological agreement with the society we Europeans have worked so hard to create? The best thing Europe can do is to collectively start paying to turn economic immigrants back, erring on the side of sending questionable status immigrants back to the region (again, Turkey, Jordan, etc., not Syria), and letting the word spread that the game is over. When the US economy crashed in '08, immigration from S. America plummeted once word got out that the economic opportunities of construction and farming in the US were drying up. Same principle will work here too.
Thanks, Obama, for your disastrous Middle East policy that (among a litany of other things) created this mess. -From someone who supported your candidacy twice.
7
The best thing Europe can do is to maintain itself as the place downtrodden wish to escape to, not to try to take all in.
Others have said it well, the following excerpts from Herr Fischer, Guy in KC, Concerned, and William Hunt.
"[W]hy is Austria, Hungary, Macedonia...not good enough for them? If they only want the wealthiest countries, ... that sounds fishy. I thought this was all about survival."
"The Times has made clear its editorial position that any person anywhere has the 'right' to move to any Western nation of their choosing,... and that those living in the host countries who... disagree ... are racist and xenophobic. Interestingly, these labels are only applied to Europeans and others in the West who wish to limit the flood of... immigrants into their nations, but are never used to describe nations like Japan or Mexico which have strict immigration laws."
"Where are the safe gulf Arab countries who spend billions of dollars on extravagance? How come they don't take on some of the responsibility for these refugees from war torn Syria and Yemen given that they are major players in the wars aflicting these countries directly or covertly."
"The 'open borders' concept in the EU was never meant to apply to refugees entering the union - it was to ensure that citizens of the EU countries could travel unimpeded within the union.... Physical entry into the EU needs to be restricted by EU borders guards, similar to our US border guards and hopefully more effectively."
Others have said it well, the following excerpts from Herr Fischer, Guy in KC, Concerned, and William Hunt.
"[W]hy is Austria, Hungary, Macedonia...not good enough for them? If they only want the wealthiest countries, ... that sounds fishy. I thought this was all about survival."
"The Times has made clear its editorial position that any person anywhere has the 'right' to move to any Western nation of their choosing,... and that those living in the host countries who... disagree ... are racist and xenophobic. Interestingly, these labels are only applied to Europeans and others in the West who wish to limit the flood of... immigrants into their nations, but are never used to describe nations like Japan or Mexico which have strict immigration laws."
"Where are the safe gulf Arab countries who spend billions of dollars on extravagance? How come they don't take on some of the responsibility for these refugees from war torn Syria and Yemen given that they are major players in the wars aflicting these countries directly or covertly."
"The 'open borders' concept in the EU was never meant to apply to refugees entering the union - it was to ensure that citizens of the EU countries could travel unimpeded within the union.... Physical entry into the EU needs to be restricted by EU borders guards, similar to our US border guards and hopefully more effectively."
13
Whether it's in Europe or the US, if every person who hired an illegal immigrant was fined or jailed, this would stop. That includes you, if you have a person cutting you lawn who is illegal, you are responsible. If you pay someone to cut your toenails, or put a new roof on your house, you are contributing to the problem. If someone who is here illegally, looks after your kid and is here illegally, you are not helping the people who need jobs in your country. The people who are coming are poor and undedicated, they have many needs. The wealthy of these countries have already parked their largely illegally gotten gains in western real estate, now they are being followed by their countrymen. It's all wonderful to be PC, but what do you do when the whole first world becomes the third world? Despite pouring money into these nations, the character rarely changes. We formerly colonized these nations, now they are colonizing our countries. The Europeans better find a solution or they will be overrun.
9
They are not illegal immigrants, they are refugees seeking asylum. The various European governments are free to deport them back to where they came from.
Who will pay for this? What about health; vaccinations and such? This could become a public health crisis. We cannot simply open our countries up to anyone. Western civilization could be at stake here.
2
Do you live in Europe? If not, what European governments do with the refugees is really not your business. People like Angela Merkel are not going to be decisions lightly.
Health care is "free" for these people; the tab is picked up by the European taxpayer.
Please, please get the terminology RIGHT, once and for all. These are NOT migrants. They are refugees. For clarity on definitions, please go to: http://www.unhcr.org/55df0e556.html
Europe is cleaning up the mess the US created by destabilizing the Middle East and North Africa. Great job. Make the US pay just like Trump wants Mexico to pay for the Wall.
1
A terrible spectacle. But I also think it's important to think a couple of decades into the future. If Europe allows - literally - hundreds of thousands or perhaps millions of people to breach its borders, what will be the social impact? If they are not fully integrated into European society, they will retreat into their religion for solace. We see the results in France and they are not pretty.
6
Isil is laughing its butt off while watching this mass immigration/occupation of Western Europe, that is literally welcomed with flowers and food and kids' toys by "progressive" students and blind liberals. This is exactly what they had promised, and it's working better and faster than they even thought, increasing every day. Europe is changing before our eyes right now. Holland, Austria, Germany, Sweden and Great Britain simply cannot absorb this massive influx of unskilled Middle Eastern and African migrants, mostly Muslims, without losing a good part of their defining cultures. Obviously, a great part of these migrants, far from being persecuted, are simply looking for better economic circumstances and are taking advantage of the open border policies of the EU. In short order, some of these new immigrants will demand that their host countries accommodate their ancient religious beliefs and cultural preferences and turn a blind eye to their misogyny and bigoted religious laws. If these immigrants, millions of them, were unwilling or unable to fight oppression in their own countries, and therefore are swamping Europe, the radical murderers of Isil & Co. have won.
5
Am I missing something regarding this heartbreaking crisis? In other words, why aren't the United States of America, Australia, Canada and New Zealand, countries with wide open spaces and jobs of one kind or another stepping forward to help these desperate people fleeing war and suffering in their home countries? In a situation such as this, bureaucratic agreements and borders are surely irrelevant.
'Dead Fish' writes that the core problem here is that this little planet of ours has become dangerously overpopulated, and that there just aren't enough resources to go around.
And while that's certainly true, far more dangerous than even the numbers, it seems to me, is our hard-wired tribalism that was intended to keep small groups of people cohesive and safe (well... safer, at least!) from any number of external dangers, but now that we're... relatively speaking.... all living cheek by jowl, that instinctual and atavistic 'them vs. us' that once helped us to form cohesive and self-contained communities now has us all at each others throats, including here in the US.
Let's just hope that we're still evolving as a species, however imperceptibly, so that our psyches and survival instincts can finally adapt to this, in evolutionary terms, relatively new and increasingly inescapable reality of a single global tribe called 'Mankind'.
And while that's certainly true, far more dangerous than even the numbers, it seems to me, is our hard-wired tribalism that was intended to keep small groups of people cohesive and safe (well... safer, at least!) from any number of external dangers, but now that we're... relatively speaking.... all living cheek by jowl, that instinctual and atavistic 'them vs. us' that once helped us to form cohesive and self-contained communities now has us all at each others throats, including here in the US.
Let's just hope that we're still evolving as a species, however imperceptibly, so that our psyches and survival instincts can finally adapt to this, in evolutionary terms, relatively new and increasingly inescapable reality of a single global tribe called 'Mankind'.
1
The fragile world economy is the driving force behind this migrant crises to all the world powers. We continue to see it here in the U.S. from Mexico and Central America; as illustrated in this article, all throughout Europe and Northern Africa to Germany, Great Britain and France.
Supply and demand simply won't accommodate and only the smugglers will profit.
Supply and demand simply won't accommodate and only the smugglers will profit.
The ills of the 3rd world cannot be solved by having their entire populations relocated to Europe and North America. The world rejected colonialism but would some form of administration of at least the worst failed states such as Libya, Afghanistan and Syria, by some international bodies be preferable to the carnage and chaos at home and the risk of undermining the islands of peace and prosperity which remain in the world?
2
Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar, Oman, United Arab Emirates. This is where the new economic refugees belong, not in Europe where the newcomers choose not to assimilate; hold themselves separate as Islamic fundamentalists; treat women and gays with contempt; and give cover to ISIS agitators in their midst. Let them stay in the Middle East and get jobs in their richer neighbors' oil fields, not invade the prosperous nations of Europe that have worked to build open and workable societies.
11
In the first place, "Europe" and the "EU" are not mutually interchangeable. Second, not every member of the EU is part of the Schengen zone - some nations opted out of that. Third, circumstances change, the "open borders" concept has worked for some countries (lie Eastern European ones offloading their excess unemployed into countries like Britain and then sending UK taxpayer benefits back home) but has cost the English working-class dearly.
Britain is bursting at the seams and is a particular target of IS jihadis. If you look at the homepage of today's TIMES of London, you will see that Britain's population is now set to exceed Germany's. It does not have an aging workforce as Germany does, and it is loaded with EU migrant workers.
It has absolutely no practical reason to import tens of thousands of North African Muslims, and what is more, if the government does let them in, Britain will come even closer to leaving the EU, tired of being told what kind of country it has to be by Germany and Angela Merkel.
Everyone pretends there is no demographic issue here. Any anthropologist will tell you all cultures find ways to "bucket" themselves socially. No one will admit that importing five million more Muslims into, if we're being honest, 3 European nations: the UK, Germany, and Sweden, the only places the migrants want to resettle, will exacerbate sectarian issues that New York's handwringing liberals are too distant to care about.
The far right can't wait.
Britain is bursting at the seams and is a particular target of IS jihadis. If you look at the homepage of today's TIMES of London, you will see that Britain's population is now set to exceed Germany's. It does not have an aging workforce as Germany does, and it is loaded with EU migrant workers.
It has absolutely no practical reason to import tens of thousands of North African Muslims, and what is more, if the government does let them in, Britain will come even closer to leaving the EU, tired of being told what kind of country it has to be by Germany and Angela Merkel.
Everyone pretends there is no demographic issue here. Any anthropologist will tell you all cultures find ways to "bucket" themselves socially. No one will admit that importing five million more Muslims into, if we're being honest, 3 European nations: the UK, Germany, and Sweden, the only places the migrants want to resettle, will exacerbate sectarian issues that New York's handwringing liberals are too distant to care about.
The far right can't wait.
7
Europe should not give up its freedoms, be subject to overcrowding and crime, and diminished quality of life, due to unwanted immigrant hoards.
One-third of my salary goes to taxes, directly supporting illegals. If they move in with a family that is here legally, or if they have forged papers, they are eligible for the full safety net.
They beg in the streets, faking injuries. They use their children as props when begging.
Without education or language skills, money is earned illegally by drug and gun dealing, paperwork forgery, theft and robbery. Rejected by Europeans for their refusal to learn the language, go to school and adopt the ways of their new countries, they burn cars, smash windows and destroy property.
They are not wanted in Europe. The EU should go to their countries--particularly those in Africa--and educate them, train them in new jobs valuable to their countries, e.g., infrastructure building, plumbing, I.T., environmental technology, solar farming.
We must meet refugees en route and stop them, on land or at sea, and direct them to new, guarded camps, giving them education and skills for rebuilding their war torn nations, when they can return.
This effort will take many people and cost many millions of euros. It will hopefully bring positive economic change to poor countries, and encourage immigrants to stay in their home countries.
To absorb the tidal wave of immigrants here is equally costly, but does more harm than good to the EU.
One-third of my salary goes to taxes, directly supporting illegals. If they move in with a family that is here legally, or if they have forged papers, they are eligible for the full safety net.
They beg in the streets, faking injuries. They use their children as props when begging.
Without education or language skills, money is earned illegally by drug and gun dealing, paperwork forgery, theft and robbery. Rejected by Europeans for their refusal to learn the language, go to school and adopt the ways of their new countries, they burn cars, smash windows and destroy property.
They are not wanted in Europe. The EU should go to their countries--particularly those in Africa--and educate them, train them in new jobs valuable to their countries, e.g., infrastructure building, plumbing, I.T., environmental technology, solar farming.
We must meet refugees en route and stop them, on land or at sea, and direct them to new, guarded camps, giving them education and skills for rebuilding their war torn nations, when they can return.
This effort will take many people and cost many millions of euros. It will hopefully bring positive economic change to poor countries, and encourage immigrants to stay in their home countries.
To absorb the tidal wave of immigrants here is equally costly, but does more harm than good to the EU.
10
I don't understand why the term "migrant" is being used to describe these people, who have left their countries to protect their lives. "Migrants" are people who move voluntarily. Most expats are migrants. The people described in this article are refugees. However, words affect our perception. If enough media sources call these refugees "migrants", the urgency of their plight, their fragile humanity and their need for help will be ignored. They wouldn not leave their countries if it weren't for the wars going on there, war that the US has initiated and the EU has supported. Stop the wars and they'll stop leaving.
They are the men supposed to be fighting these wars, but have abandoned their countries and families to welfare shop in rich nations.
You welcome them at your peril.
You welcome them at your peril.
It must be terrible to live in a country at war.
But countries have been at war before.
When France was invaded by Germany did the French all try to leave and seek asylum in other countries on the grounds that they were being invaded?
No.
When Poland was invaded by Russia did the Poles all have the right to demand another country provides them with a home?
Of course not.
When Israel was attacked by those same Arabs who now want to enter Europe, where were the European countries queuing up to offer them a home?
Nowhere to be found.
Didn't Londoners and other Brits have to run to air raid shelters every night when the Germans were dropping bombs?
So why is it suddenly the problem of Europe that millions of Arabs want to move there rather than fight the invader?
And note that 90% of these migrants are military aged men who have abandoned their women, children and parents to whatever suffering they themselves are escaping.
How is this any different than when France, Poland and countless other countries have been attacked?
Offer military assistance perhaps, but SEND THEM BACK.
The ONLY exception might be the Christians and Yazidis who are literally being crucified or beheaded by ISIS.
But countries have been at war before.
When France was invaded by Germany did the French all try to leave and seek asylum in other countries on the grounds that they were being invaded?
No.
When Poland was invaded by Russia did the Poles all have the right to demand another country provides them with a home?
Of course not.
When Israel was attacked by those same Arabs who now want to enter Europe, where were the European countries queuing up to offer them a home?
Nowhere to be found.
Didn't Londoners and other Brits have to run to air raid shelters every night when the Germans were dropping bombs?
So why is it suddenly the problem of Europe that millions of Arabs want to move there rather than fight the invader?
And note that 90% of these migrants are military aged men who have abandoned their women, children and parents to whatever suffering they themselves are escaping.
How is this any different than when France, Poland and countless other countries have been attacked?
Offer military assistance perhaps, but SEND THEM BACK.
The ONLY exception might be the Christians and Yazidis who are literally being crucified or beheaded by ISIS.
19
Indeed a test case for EU exposing its total incompetence at the level European Commissioners proving its lack of leadership and decision making.
Like before with the economic crisis and especially the Greek trauma. It's the people who are suffering from this lack of leadership and political incompetence since these migrants put their lives on the line to get to 'their paradise EU' which it is NOT.
EU has 24 million unemployed already, no economic growth, no innovations and is stuck in a deflationary episode with NO changes in sight. The same happens with the EU promises to Ukraine and its Maidan uprisings/coup because EU was promising them the sky from heaven, but never delivered
We have an expression in Dutch: Promising a lot and not delivering makes an happy fool' This seems to be the attitude of Brussels while the countries are not prepared or able to handle this amount of migrants while endangering the native population and increasing their taxes.
It's time to stop this flow at the source and preventing these criminals to make money over the lives of these migrants.
UN should take the initiative by offering them land - similar to Israel in 1947 or Liberia - and have them build their own nation. This will reduce the amount of migrants immediately since a large portion of these migrants are 'economic' migrants.
Like before with the economic crisis and especially the Greek trauma. It's the people who are suffering from this lack of leadership and political incompetence since these migrants put their lives on the line to get to 'their paradise EU' which it is NOT.
EU has 24 million unemployed already, no economic growth, no innovations and is stuck in a deflationary episode with NO changes in sight. The same happens with the EU promises to Ukraine and its Maidan uprisings/coup because EU was promising them the sky from heaven, but never delivered
We have an expression in Dutch: Promising a lot and not delivering makes an happy fool' This seems to be the attitude of Brussels while the countries are not prepared or able to handle this amount of migrants while endangering the native population and increasing their taxes.
It's time to stop this flow at the source and preventing these criminals to make money over the lives of these migrants.
UN should take the initiative by offering them land - similar to Israel in 1947 or Liberia - and have them build their own nation. This will reduce the amount of migrants immediately since a large portion of these migrants are 'economic' migrants.
17
Onno, partially I agree with you. E.g., in the case of Maidan I actually thought that the EU was near to start an "imperial war" with Russia (sending out US troops?). I was shocked!
Another issue, you in the Netherlands, I in Germany: My general feeling is that the German economy is doing quite well (among others) because it integrated so much refugees, or economic migrants, if you prefer, in the past. The result is a globalized economy. An experience the Netherlands will share with Germany.
"EU has 24 million unemployed already, no economic growth, no innovations ..." A description which does not fit for Germany as one of its members. I personally would reject the description of Germany as not innovative ... thanks among other to e.g. second generation Turkish migrants.
UN can offer land, but if the preferred destination remains Germany but not the land offered?
Another issue, you in the Netherlands, I in Germany: My general feeling is that the German economy is doing quite well (among others) because it integrated so much refugees, or economic migrants, if you prefer, in the past. The result is a globalized economy. An experience the Netherlands will share with Germany.
"EU has 24 million unemployed already, no economic growth, no innovations ..." A description which does not fit for Germany as one of its members. I personally would reject the description of Germany as not innovative ... thanks among other to e.g. second generation Turkish migrants.
UN can offer land, but if the preferred destination remains Germany but not the land offered?
this is one of the best ideas yet..these people need a homeland and they need the world to help build them efficient, green housing, maintenance free low cost with high utility even solar--lets make a future city as an experiment to make a future city--great idea!
On it's face value your comment has some merit but whose land are you going to offer? There is a chunk of the Middle East that is an ongoing experiment for the proposal you are making. so far it is not going ell
continued from above:
An average person is a net recipient rather than a net contributor to public finances over their lifetime. That is even more likely to be the case for non-professional immigrants (and especially for migrants that can't meet education or income criteria for a regular work visa).
Furthermore, European states have accumulated even vaster assets and improved public spaces - which create enormous consumer surplus/ welfare today but which would be damaged by mass immigration. While fiscal problems are probably exacerbated rather than dissipated by acceptance of "refugees" (economic migrants ineligible to follow normal routes), accumulated public capital would be massively dissipated on a per-capita basis. Generations of high investment in human capital have given us the lowest crime rates on Earth, but mass immigration will certainly undermine that. Progressive values have empowered women, allowed open homosexuality and given us expanding public spaces (lakes, mountain trails, beaches, parks, etc) where we can freely be nude, but migration of people with conservative values is a direct threat to our safety and liberty here.
Let's defend what our civilization has built. Let's preserve the culture that allows us to be happy and fulfilled. Let's have controlled migration - only developed world citizens or well educated people should be free to live and work in Europe.
An average person is a net recipient rather than a net contributor to public finances over their lifetime. That is even more likely to be the case for non-professional immigrants (and especially for migrants that can't meet education or income criteria for a regular work visa).
Furthermore, European states have accumulated even vaster assets and improved public spaces - which create enormous consumer surplus/ welfare today but which would be damaged by mass immigration. While fiscal problems are probably exacerbated rather than dissipated by acceptance of "refugees" (economic migrants ineligible to follow normal routes), accumulated public capital would be massively dissipated on a per-capita basis. Generations of high investment in human capital have given us the lowest crime rates on Earth, but mass immigration will certainly undermine that. Progressive values have empowered women, allowed open homosexuality and given us expanding public spaces (lakes, mountain trails, beaches, parks, etc) where we can freely be nude, but migration of people with conservative values is a direct threat to our safety and liberty here.
Let's defend what our civilization has built. Let's preserve the culture that allows us to be happy and fulfilled. Let's have controlled migration - only developed world citizens or well educated people should be free to live and work in Europe.
13
Why aren't these able-bodied men staying in their own countries to fight to make it a better place, instead of running and looking for free handouts? We might as well totally give up on the Middle East.
19
I agree with you and yet... I imagine that living around people who routinely cut off heads and blow up cultural sites may remind these men that life is cheap. Those with families, I assume, are thinking of their families. Those traveling alone may also be thinking of their families (perhaps hoping they can re-establish themselves and bring their families along afterward). Or they may be thinking about making more money and living in a society that is free from violence. Hey, sometimes I think seriously about leaving Chicago, you know? So I feel for them.
You are free to invite a refugee family from the Middle East of Africa to stay here and live with you, if you really deeply feel for and understand them.
Will the religious and ethnic hatred that has torn apart Syria remain in those lands or travel with the migrants to Europe?
Most Europeans want to be humane but don't want to be invaded by people with medieval views about religion and women's rights.
Europe may be able to accommodate small groups of people unaccustomed to living in a tolerant, secular land with generous welfare benefits. But the magnitude of this migration suggests this will not end well.
Ms. Merkel's promise to accept unlimited refugees almost certainly will lead millions more to head for Germany. Large parts of the country could be unrecognizable within a few years.
Most Europeans want to be humane but don't want to be invaded by people with medieval views about religion and women's rights.
Europe may be able to accommodate small groups of people unaccustomed to living in a tolerant, secular land with generous welfare benefits. But the magnitude of this migration suggests this will not end well.
Ms. Merkel's promise to accept unlimited refugees almost certainly will lead millions more to head for Germany. Large parts of the country could be unrecognizable within a few years.
17
"Ms. Merkel's promise to accept unlimited refugees almost certainly will lead millions more to head for Germany. Large parts of the country could be unrecognizable within a few years."
Don't forget that once migrants gain citizenship in Germany or any other EU state they can move to any other state. And do. Eg very many Somalis were accepted as asylum seekers in the Netherlands. Thousands of those have now moved to England where the Somali "community" has 60% unemployment and 60% families with only one parent.
Don't forget that once migrants gain citizenship in Germany or any other EU state they can move to any other state. And do. Eg very many Somalis were accepted as asylum seekers in the Netherlands. Thousands of those have now moved to England where the Somali "community" has 60% unemployment and 60% families with only one parent.
Europe is not going to survive this.
Our economy is stranded and our culture was already in danger: only a fool could allow thousands -and then millions?- of illegal aliens from a completely different world (religion, customs, absence of any form of democracy, woman's role in society, lack of education) and that don't want to assimilate. There's more: many of them hate our way of life, our civilization and aim to become the dominant culture.
The only interest they have in Europe is exploiting our munificent welfare system, that they often know better than us. Europe as we know it will be wiped away by a lethal mix of dying economy, high unemployment and cultural clashes.
This immigration crisis is the best weapon that ISIS and their fellows have in their hand to destroy Europe.
The future is what Oriana Fallaci called “Eurabia”.
Our economy is stranded and our culture was already in danger: only a fool could allow thousands -and then millions?- of illegal aliens from a completely different world (religion, customs, absence of any form of democracy, woman's role in society, lack of education) and that don't want to assimilate. There's more: many of them hate our way of life, our civilization and aim to become the dominant culture.
The only interest they have in Europe is exploiting our munificent welfare system, that they often know better than us. Europe as we know it will be wiped away by a lethal mix of dying economy, high unemployment and cultural clashes.
This immigration crisis is the best weapon that ISIS and their fellows have in their hand to destroy Europe.
The future is what Oriana Fallaci called “Eurabia”.
24
You speak from my heart. Close your borders and send all to Germany! Should these left wing idealists deal with them! :-)
1
Hungarians have received migrants from 67 countries. I do not believe that we have a world war three. This means that people that entered the European Union are mostly there as economic migrants.
Also, the British prime minister warned Italy, Germany, and Sweden that their actions on border controls and welfare attract these would be refugees to wealthy countries and puts European in danger.
In fact, the British risk analysts have put forward two reports which anticipate an ethnic conflict to emerge in about five to ten years time in Europe as the strain on welfare system will magnify and more and more Europeans will find themselves without a job as taxes will rise.
I myself was an immigrant to Canada. However, we had to apply and meet the stringent requirements of this country when we emigrated here in 1991. Also, we too ended up in Germany. However, we traveled from Poland and our passports were stamped and so were our finger prints. No cherry picking there.
So, this tells me that these migrants are not really desparate but these are quite clever. The fact that they travel to Germany without finger prints and no formal applications only means that they have done their homework well. In fact, they have done better homework than the countries admitting them.
I wonder what will happen when western populations will start to elect more appropriate governments that will start looking after interest of the Europeans not illegimate refugees? I see a calamity and disorder.
Also, the British prime minister warned Italy, Germany, and Sweden that their actions on border controls and welfare attract these would be refugees to wealthy countries and puts European in danger.
In fact, the British risk analysts have put forward two reports which anticipate an ethnic conflict to emerge in about five to ten years time in Europe as the strain on welfare system will magnify and more and more Europeans will find themselves without a job as taxes will rise.
I myself was an immigrant to Canada. However, we had to apply and meet the stringent requirements of this country when we emigrated here in 1991. Also, we too ended up in Germany. However, we traveled from Poland and our passports were stamped and so were our finger prints. No cherry picking there.
So, this tells me that these migrants are not really desparate but these are quite clever. The fact that they travel to Germany without finger prints and no formal applications only means that they have done their homework well. In fact, they have done better homework than the countries admitting them.
I wonder what will happen when western populations will start to elect more appropriate governments that will start looking after interest of the Europeans not illegimate refugees? I see a calamity and disorder.
22
Any agreement on slowing this "migration" will be meaningless unless it addresses all major root causes.
Among those largely ignored by the New York Times:
Iraq: broken by the previous US Administration's failed foreign policy is owed at least 300,000 Green Cards, available for pickup at the Serbian/Hungarian border.
Overpopulation: continued ignorance of this global problem will result in even more migrants in the coming years.
Among those largely ignored by the New York Times:
Iraq: broken by the previous US Administration's failed foreign policy is owed at least 300,000 Green Cards, available for pickup at the Serbian/Hungarian border.
Overpopulation: continued ignorance of this global problem will result in even more migrants in the coming years.
4
Don't forget Libya, broken by this administration and responsible for the complete destabilization of north and subsaharan Africa.
So Europe and the USA is blamed for Libya ('cos we intervened) and for Syria ('cos we didn't intervene) - ie it's all our fault, for all values of "it"?
thanks barack, thanks Hillary, thanks mr kerry
Note the related article on murders in the US being dramatically up.
There are a lot of people in this new hyper-competitive world who do not have a place in it. As a result, their cultures are imploding. Robotics and disciplined Asian cultures have created a generational shift in wealth, away from people not able to compete in the modern workforce.
ISIS blames modernity, thugs blame cops, everyone has a scapegoat. But the underlying reason is the dysfunction and thus joblessness of their culture, and the vast numbers of alienated young men with nothing to do but commit violence out of frustration with the hopelessness of their situation.
There are a lot of people in this new hyper-competitive world who do not have a place in it. As a result, their cultures are imploding. Robotics and disciplined Asian cultures have created a generational shift in wealth, away from people not able to compete in the modern workforce.
ISIS blames modernity, thugs blame cops, everyone has a scapegoat. But the underlying reason is the dysfunction and thus joblessness of their culture, and the vast numbers of alienated young men with nothing to do but commit violence out of frustration with the hopelessness of their situation.
10
The Schengen Agreement normally allows unrestricted travel within the European Union. But under this agreement member states can, in exceptional circumstances reintroduce border controls. But for how long?
Austria intensifies border controls hoping to catch human traffickers.
It said the checks would not be necessary if there were an agreement to distribute the migrants fairly.
Yet it takes time for the 28 EU states to convene and agree. Meanwhile it requires instant solutions, and unfortunately the EU countries on the outer borders are bearing the brunt of this massive influx of migrants.
Austria intensifies border controls hoping to catch human traffickers.
It said the checks would not be necessary if there were an agreement to distribute the migrants fairly.
Yet it takes time for the 28 EU states to convene and agree. Meanwhile it requires instant solutions, and unfortunately the EU countries on the outer borders are bearing the brunt of this massive influx of migrants.
9
Numbers and information from the German department of the Interior (in German) bmi.bund.de
from top ten countries of origin 2014/Jan-Jun 2015 were
Syria, Afghanistan, Iraque 60275/51893 [mostly accepted]
5 Balkan States 61564/53926 [nearly all denied]
Eritrea and Somalia and Nigeria resp 18938/6500
Everybody asking for asylum in Germany has a constitutionally guaranteed right of a formal hearing and in case of refusal one can resubmit an application
supplying additional causes or file a suit in administrative court.
There are three causes to grant asylum
1. persecution due to politics, religion, race, gender.. (less than 2%)
2. refugee status as defined by the Geneva convention on refugees (24%)
3. subsidiary protection (against imminent death penalty, torture, (civil) war) (4%)
Additionally, there is no deportation possible for some persons and/or into some countries (1.6%)
Denied were 33.4%, to be sent back to country of first entrance into the EU (Dublin regulation) or closed due to withdrawal of application (35.2%).
Time to decision is at the moment several months up to a year, meanwhile a minimum subsistence is provided by the government.
This minimum is defined by Federal Court as comparable to social security for German citizen. It includes housing, food, emergency health care, school for children. For the first three months asylum seeker are not allowed to work.
Due to the internet many people are well informed of these facts and know their rights.
from top ten countries of origin 2014/Jan-Jun 2015 were
Syria, Afghanistan, Iraque 60275/51893 [mostly accepted]
5 Balkan States 61564/53926 [nearly all denied]
Eritrea and Somalia and Nigeria resp 18938/6500
Everybody asking for asylum in Germany has a constitutionally guaranteed right of a formal hearing and in case of refusal one can resubmit an application
supplying additional causes or file a suit in administrative court.
There are three causes to grant asylum
1. persecution due to politics, religion, race, gender.. (less than 2%)
2. refugee status as defined by the Geneva convention on refugees (24%)
3. subsidiary protection (against imminent death penalty, torture, (civil) war) (4%)
Additionally, there is no deportation possible for some persons and/or into some countries (1.6%)
Denied were 33.4%, to be sent back to country of first entrance into the EU (Dublin regulation) or closed due to withdrawal of application (35.2%).
Time to decision is at the moment several months up to a year, meanwhile a minimum subsistence is provided by the government.
This minimum is defined by Federal Court as comparable to social security for German citizen. It includes housing, food, emergency health care, school for children. For the first three months asylum seeker are not allowed to work.
Due to the internet many people are well informed of these facts and know their rights.
12
illegals have no rights
Granting these "rights" to anyone that shows up in Germany, given an overcrowded world of 7.3 billion, will lure millions if not tens of millions to Germany and other E.U. countries. The Germans will destroy their quality of life.
1
This is a lot of nonsense and propaganda and coming from a globalist New World Order regime totally unbelievable and unreliable. Hardly any of these illegal aliens are being sent home. A "genuine refugee" is supposed to go to the nearest country not at war, this does not mean Germany or some other European country but a Middle Eastern or African one, apply for asylum and be housed and cared for in a UN or other charitable camp until such time as they can return home. Germany is being played for a sap and a sucker by these ravenous hordes of job and welfare seekers and Angela Merkel is out of her mind to blindly accept and welcome all of these invaders. Many Germans suffer from the "Hitler Syndrome" which means that Germany must forever apologize and do penance for the Nazi atrocities of decades ago including allowing itself to be the dumping ground for the Third World's surplus population. You Germans better wake up and smell the coffee and put some patriotic Loyalists in power in Berlin before you have been submerged and destroyed by this alien flood.
2
These "core European values" had been secured by generations of young Europeans volunteering for military service, (official or underground, as case might be) in order to police the territory they lived in, make it livable, free of tyrants etc.
There are reports that most of young Syrian male refugees are fleeing the threat of being conscripted into Assad's army. Understandable.
During WWII, people of Polish origin were forcibly conscripted into Wehrmacht. On Western Front majority of those who deserted (or were made captive) VOLUNTEERED into Polish Allied military divisions, to fight Nazi Germany. Instead of safely waiting the war out in a POW camp. There are quite exact records (for obvious reasons, these people had to be vetted against possible infiltration) - about 55000 men. Towards the end of WWII, some Polish units on the Western front had more than half ex-Wehrmacht soldiers, fighting very bravely and efficiently.
At the same time, hundreds of thousands of people back in Poland were organized into armed underground. Tens of thousands died fighting.
I would give these Syrians etc all the support (safe refuge for the families etc), provided the able-bodied ones come back to where they come from to claim THEIR land back.
There are reports that most of young Syrian male refugees are fleeing the threat of being conscripted into Assad's army. Understandable.
During WWII, people of Polish origin were forcibly conscripted into Wehrmacht. On Western Front majority of those who deserted (or were made captive) VOLUNTEERED into Polish Allied military divisions, to fight Nazi Germany. Instead of safely waiting the war out in a POW camp. There are quite exact records (for obvious reasons, these people had to be vetted against possible infiltration) - about 55000 men. Towards the end of WWII, some Polish units on the Western front had more than half ex-Wehrmacht soldiers, fighting very bravely and efficiently.
At the same time, hundreds of thousands of people back in Poland were organized into armed underground. Tens of thousands died fighting.
I would give these Syrians etc all the support (safe refuge for the families etc), provided the able-bodied ones come back to where they come from to claim THEIR land back.
20
Like with the Peshmerga (kurds) ?
Their families are in europe in safety, they have a network into europe for medical treatment, they have access to military training and weapon technology, like the milan anti-tank-rocket.
Even the US-military consider them as their best asset against the ISIS, unlike the iraq army, the US have trained for years, and that fell apart at an instance.
And the kurds had been just farmers and sheepherds, when they fled twenty years ago when Saddam Hussein used chemical agents on them.
Their families are in europe in safety, they have a network into europe for medical treatment, they have access to military training and weapon technology, like the milan anti-tank-rocket.
Even the US-military consider them as their best asset against the ISIS, unlike the iraq army, the US have trained for years, and that fell apart at an instance.
And the kurds had been just farmers and sheepherds, when they fled twenty years ago when Saddam Hussein used chemical agents on them.
2
There were NO NAZI Polish divisions in WW2.
Mathias: hopefully. Treat them like men, allow them to be men. "Men" is a metaphor here BTW, as I understand many Kurd soldiers are female.
First and foremost this is a tragic humanitarian crisis that demands a collective response from all european nations. Without one, it could pose an existential threat to a basic tenet of the European Union: the free movement of peoples- a fundamental civil right that many take for granted. The ambivalent attitude from some european nations, including mine, is alarming and will only worsen the suffering of the refugees. An equitable distribution of refugees amongst all european nations according to wealth and population size is the only solution for the short and medium term. However, for the longer term the EU, and the West more generally, need to find a solution to the Syrian civil war, which may involve, albeit unpleasantly, bringing Assad to the negotiating table. This is undoubtedly a era of volatility and one in which our sense of Europeanness is being constantly challenged by rising nationalism and anti-immigrant rhetoric across the continent; to not rise up to that challenge though would mean our being pilloried by future generations for not having learnt the lessons of the 20th century.
11
People emigrate dwhen their lands were devastated by European/ British colonization and today, by others creating wars and devastation deliberately. Wars cannot go on without money and weapons. Who is supplying them? Who profits?
Also there are many rich Islamic countries which need workers and many Muslims could fit in nicely.
Also there are many rich Islamic countries which need workers and many Muslims could fit in nicely.
So Syria is the wests problem?
Why should the UK take "an equitable distribution of refugees"when other big EU States such as Germany don't honour their promise to spend 0.7% of GNP on overseas aid? If we cut back aid to Germany's level we could save around $8 billion. We might spend that on migrants - but I like many think it better to spend money keeping refugees in/near home states. Of course that doesn't help the economic migrants clamouring to come to the UK but then how many of those do you want? A million a year for the next 20 years?
1
"Greece, Italy and Hungary say they are so economically stressed that they are admitting migrants with little or no processing. Many are heading for the wealthier countries like Germany...."
Oh, the irony. The repercussions of Merkel's austerity are coming home to roost in a way she probably never considered. Just desserts, I say.
Oh, the irony. The repercussions of Merkel's austerity are coming home to roost in a way she probably never considered. Just desserts, I say.
16
What irony?
Greece, as usually, never stands up to it's contracts and duties, so it is no surprise that they do not take the Schengen and Dublin III contracts seriously and break them a few thousand times each day while being funded by the EU for exact this duty.
This is, at no irony at all, simply another state sponsored fraud by Greece.
Greece, as usually, never stands up to it's contracts and duties, so it is no surprise that they do not take the Schengen and Dublin III contracts seriously and break them a few thousand times each day while being funded by the EU for exact this duty.
This is, at no irony at all, simply another state sponsored fraud by Greece.
Open borders within the EU are for people legally within the EU, not illegal aliens masquerading as refugees. If those European nations with borders facing the non-EU world actually did their job of denying entry to the migrants, then this would be a moot point. The EU has every right to deny entry to any non-European, just as we do here in the U.S. for non-Americans. Why does the NYT have such a hard time with this concept?
42
The New York Times knows perfectly well that that "open borders" concept was for EU members only, and it should know that not all EU members are part of the Schengen agreement - the UK, for example, is not, for which most in the UK are thanking God these days. What the TIMES is trying to do is spread misinformation in service to its own political agenda.
Let's repeat it for other readers here: the open borders tenet of the Schengen Agreement ONLY applies to citizens of member EU nations who are part of the Schengen Agreement. It does not and never has applied to any person from any country on earth who wanted to enter any EU nation.
Let's repeat it for other readers here: the open borders tenet of the Schengen Agreement ONLY applies to citizens of member EU nations who are part of the Schengen Agreement. It does not and never has applied to any person from any country on earth who wanted to enter any EU nation.
I am sure the boarder countries would like to police their boarder better, but the influx is too large and many of those countries are broke.
Why are so many talking about 'Open Borders' in the EU. From what I understand the borders are 'open' to members of the EU only, and whom I would assume, have an appropriate EU passport. I have an Australian passport, and I'm fairly certain that the borders are not 'open' to me unless I am have an approprate visa. My passport would not give me a guaranteed entry into the US without a visa either. Why should the EU borders be 'open' to anyone else? All countries should have the right to determin who enters their land.
38
Technically you may be correct. As an Australian you don't have the right to travel around Europe as you choose.
In practice one drives from France into Italy, Belgium or between any European Schengen countries just driving by a sign "Welcome to France" or "Welcome to Italy" etc.
There are no border police.
In practice one drives from France into Italy, Belgium or between any European Schengen countries just driving by a sign "Welcome to France" or "Welcome to Italy" etc.
There are no border police.
I agree totally. Also it makes me wonder what is a country? Is it a handful of politicians and bleeding hearts or it the millions of people of that land?
1
The sad reality of the immigration battle, whether it is here or in Europe or wherever, is that it is just a subset of a much greater problem that people do not want to talk about, which is that there are just too many people. The planet is dying from in infestation of humanity. The bottom line is that for every rise in population for a nation is that there is going to be subsequent diminishing in quality of life for that country’s current citizens. It is pretty simple really: More and more people chasing after fewer and fewer resources will lead to shortages for all, so everyone will suffer, with the only exception being the ultra wealthy and they are going to make a grab for more and more as the things they covet become precious.
42
"infestation of [the planet by the] humanity"??? This phrase may attract social interest in a conversation during a late night party, but is an utter nonsense. People do not escape from Japan in large numbers (despite one of the highest population density on the planet).
Migration is (with some exceptions like natural disasters) caused by dismal local governance.
Migration is (with some exceptions like natural disasters) caused by dismal local governance.
There are solutions, Europe and Mrs Merkel at the head of EU has to make some hard decisions. If she is not careful we will have a huge extreme right backlash that would bring the EU down. Mrs Merkel will have that as her legacy.
She can not accept millions of immigrants per year for the forceable future. ( there are 2 million in Turkey wanting to go north ) So the core of the solution has to be limitation and not integration.
She can not accept millions of immigrants per year for the forceable future. ( there are 2 million in Turkey wanting to go north ) So the core of the solution has to be limitation and not integration.
32
Correct. The sad truth is, Merkel is just a power seeker and she learned from our old chancellor Helmut Kohl.
What defines her policy is always taking small steps. She never takes the risk of doing something big because she could fail. She has absolutely no vision at all.
I think at the end of the day she is very dangerous for my country.
What defines her policy is always taking small steps. She never takes the risk of doing something big because she could fail. She has absolutely no vision at all.
I think at the end of the day she is very dangerous for my country.
Unfortunately I have witnessed no integration only confrontation. Yes there are solutions but containment should come first of all. I think the UN should set aside land for immigrants camps and have them develop it without weapons and with UN policing They must be educated first of all, otherwise they will build conclaves and never assimilate.
Osmanli,
thank you for the concrete number. In the case that all those 2 million in Turkey wanting to go precisely to Germany, I feel that there are solutions just on a bilateral (Turkey-Germany) level near by hand.
Germany was prepared for 200.000 arrivals per year but is aware now that in this way 800.000 will fill refugee first contact shelters in Germany soon. The infrastructure is currently increased (including e.g. "welcome schools") to take 800.000 per year.
I feel that the best solution would be that Merkel visits Erdogan to discuss direct shipping of those 2 million from Turkey to Germany in an organized and humanitarian way so that nobody is forced to take an overcrowded boot to a Greek island in order to register as EU asylum seeker in Greece.
Alternatively Germany could offer more logistical support to Turkish refugee centers. But in essence this is a job that should ultimately not be done on a bilateral level but done by the EU, and offered to Turkey, Lebanon etc.
Thus, Germany is preparing to integrate, and is rejecting limitations. Also I think that is the core of the solution. Integration!
I would like to recall that what is today Germany just integrated 12 million so called "Heimatvertriebene" (literally 'expelled from home') into post-WWII East- and West Germany. German reunification ... was accompanied by a larger refugee problem as well.
thank you for the concrete number. In the case that all those 2 million in Turkey wanting to go precisely to Germany, I feel that there are solutions just on a bilateral (Turkey-Germany) level near by hand.
Germany was prepared for 200.000 arrivals per year but is aware now that in this way 800.000 will fill refugee first contact shelters in Germany soon. The infrastructure is currently increased (including e.g. "welcome schools") to take 800.000 per year.
I feel that the best solution would be that Merkel visits Erdogan to discuss direct shipping of those 2 million from Turkey to Germany in an organized and humanitarian way so that nobody is forced to take an overcrowded boot to a Greek island in order to register as EU asylum seeker in Greece.
Alternatively Germany could offer more logistical support to Turkish refugee centers. But in essence this is a job that should ultimately not be done on a bilateral level but done by the EU, and offered to Turkey, Lebanon etc.
Thus, Germany is preparing to integrate, and is rejecting limitations. Also I think that is the core of the solution. Integration!
I would like to recall that what is today Germany just integrated 12 million so called "Heimatvertriebene" (literally 'expelled from home') into post-WWII East- and West Germany. German reunification ... was accompanied by a larger refugee problem as well.
This is not just a European problem, it's a world problem. Are developed countries like The USA, Australia, Canada, New Zeland, Japan, etc. ready to take their share of immigrants?
30
No, and why should we?
1
No one leaves his home unless he faces terrible conditions. A long term solution is birth control. The earth cannot support so many people. Earlier emigration was from Europe's colonies since they had been looted, land usurped, millions deliberately starved,(Churchill's Secret War plus other actual records). Today oil wars or the wish to conduct business in Euros, not USD, make life impossible?
Oh please, for countries with sluggish or failing economy, like Bangladesh or Pakistan, is there really an "obligation" for other countries to take in any and all of their citizens, or is it these developing countries (and their citizens) who need to do something to make their own country better?
1
Why can't Asia, especially oil rich West Asia accommodate the migrants?
21
In view of the irrevocable realities of common-place/worldwide digital technologies usage; Western democracies economic and military powers (EU, USA and NATO especially) need to absorb the poignant lesson from these sad and persistent trans-Mediterranean Sea and Sahara Desert refugees' crises/migrations of desperation:
'Never ever foment or start a war in distant lands (with its inevitable grim consequences) if you would be unwilling to welcome its victims at your door steps.'
'Never ever foment or start a war in distant lands (with its inevitable grim consequences) if you would be unwilling to welcome its victims at your door steps.'
9
Remind me what we did to foment war in Syria? I thought that was the Middle East managed all by themselves.
My big question is: why are there suddenly so many immigrants coming through Turkey. Does this signal a change of policy by Erdogan - wanting to put pressure on the EU?
7
This crisis is a product of 12 years of profoundly unwise interventions by the US in the Middle East. The US should do its fair share to solve it. It is extremely unfortunate that Europe is now caught in the middle.
9
I suspect we could patrol the Med for you and send these ships back to where they came from, even remove some of those waiting in Greece and Turkey and haul them back to the African continent. But if you expect Obama to take a single refugee, you will see the end of Democratic governments here for a generation or more, and the Republicans would never do such a stupid thing to start with.
A vast majority of the migrants are Syrian and North African.
The west's involvement in Libya was a product of French calls to action. A no-fly zone was established before American involvement, the initial declaration of certain factions being legitimate were made by the French before American involvement and a vast majority of the bombing was conducted by non-American forces.
Similarily, Syria was in no way something that can be blamed on the United States. In fact, the historical situation that led to a country such as Syria even existing (where smaller states would have made ethnic sense) is the doing of Europeans.
The United States sure does have some responsibility (and has taken a large number of Iraqi refugees for resettlement) but to state that the current situation is entirely due to the U.S. and that Europe is "caught in the middle" smells far more of irrational anti-Americanism and less of a reasonable view of the situation. While anti-Americanism has been a popular sentiment in Europe since the Bush era, it more and more becomes irrational (to the point of often reflecting the trappings of classic anti-Semitic logic) as time goes on and Europe is forced to face its own failures internationally.
The west's involvement in Libya was a product of French calls to action. A no-fly zone was established before American involvement, the initial declaration of certain factions being legitimate were made by the French before American involvement and a vast majority of the bombing was conducted by non-American forces.
Similarily, Syria was in no way something that can be blamed on the United States. In fact, the historical situation that led to a country such as Syria even existing (where smaller states would have made ethnic sense) is the doing of Europeans.
The United States sure does have some responsibility (and has taken a large number of Iraqi refugees for resettlement) but to state that the current situation is entirely due to the U.S. and that Europe is "caught in the middle" smells far more of irrational anti-Americanism and less of a reasonable view of the situation. While anti-Americanism has been a popular sentiment in Europe since the Bush era, it more and more becomes irrational (to the point of often reflecting the trappings of classic anti-Semitic logic) as time goes on and Europe is forced to face its own failures internationally.
Was Europe not interested in the oil/ sale of arms or whatever they had? Maybe I am wrong but I thought the UK, even Norway supported some wars e.g. in Libya.
I beg to differ.
These are neither desperate migrants nor asylum seekers, these are simply people who want to better their life by using social welfare services funded by other, European, tax payers.
Refugees who would have a right to asylum in accordance with UNHCR rules would have to apply for asylum at the nearest safe place from the place they have had to flee.
Since there is no war going on at the borders of Europe, there can be no refugees and no asylum unless these people come directly to the EU by plane.
So who are these people?
These are migrants in search of a better life who simply need the usual type of visas for entering the EU from safe countries.
Lured by the prospect of a well funded and working social welfare system these, mostly young men, are looking for a better life, which is OK.
But at the same time, the EU cannot take them all in as it simply does not have the resources to take care of additional millions of mostly undereducated and long term jobless migrants.
And it is not only the migrants but their families as well who are usually coming after the first member of the family is being granted asylum status.
So we are talking about 2.5 migrants per person going into the EU.
As for Germany this means about 1-2.5 mio. jobless migrants per year at least.
Sorry, but these people are using the good will and the weakness of the p.c.elites and naive people of Europe to have a better life while they have a job to do at home - solve the issues at home.
These are neither desperate migrants nor asylum seekers, these are simply people who want to better their life by using social welfare services funded by other, European, tax payers.
Refugees who would have a right to asylum in accordance with UNHCR rules would have to apply for asylum at the nearest safe place from the place they have had to flee.
Since there is no war going on at the borders of Europe, there can be no refugees and no asylum unless these people come directly to the EU by plane.
So who are these people?
These are migrants in search of a better life who simply need the usual type of visas for entering the EU from safe countries.
Lured by the prospect of a well funded and working social welfare system these, mostly young men, are looking for a better life, which is OK.
But at the same time, the EU cannot take them all in as it simply does not have the resources to take care of additional millions of mostly undereducated and long term jobless migrants.
And it is not only the migrants but their families as well who are usually coming after the first member of the family is being granted asylum status.
So we are talking about 2.5 migrants per person going into the EU.
As for Germany this means about 1-2.5 mio. jobless migrants per year at least.
Sorry, but these people are using the good will and the weakness of the p.c.elites and naive people of Europe to have a better life while they have a job to do at home - solve the issues at home.
40
Many of the Syrian and Eritrean refugees are educated (doctors, nurses engineers, etc), respectively skilled workers and want to find work as soon as they can, demand courses to learn German as quickly as possible. The real problem arepeople from Albania and the countries that once formed Yougoslavia - low-skilled as they are, they can only aspire to low-wage work, much like first-generation Mexican immigrants.
"additional millions of mostly undereducated and long term jobless migrants."
German statitics of the first 500.000 who have arrived would, rather, argue that 40% are children who need to go to school. Another 10 or 20% may be children even younger (needing pampers etc.).
German statitics of the first 500.000 who have arrived would, rather, argue that 40% are children who need to go to school. Another 10 or 20% may be children even younger (needing pampers etc.).
40% are children?
Funny that as the German BAMF says that some 80% are male migrants over 18.
Your "statistics" does not compute.
Funny that as the German BAMF says that some 80% are male migrants over 18.
Your "statistics" does not compute.
What I don;t understand is why should Europe be expected - nay, required - to take care of the millions of migrants? When will these floods of people stop?
30
The best way to limit immigration is to improve the quality of life in the countries the people are coming from. If Europeans made an effort to help the countries that the people are coming from and the people in those countries, then the immigration would stop.
This is true for immigration into the US as well. If the US stopped its war on drugs, then we wouldn't have an immigration problem.
This is true for immigration into the US as well. If the US stopped its war on drugs, then we wouldn't have an immigration problem.
3
I wouldn't like to live in a refugee camp, but if I truly left my home country because I was being persecuted and facing death, I would be grateful to any country that gave me shelter and food to eat. I wouldn't be 'migrating' from one European country to another trying to find the best deal. At that point, those people stop being refugees in my book and become candidates for deportation.
32
While I agree with you, maybe there a is cousin or someone in that other country? Or it has a record of better human rights?
However the wealthy MEast needs workers and can absorb at least the Muslim refugees.
However the wealthy MEast needs workers and can absorb at least the Muslim refugees.
Thanks for your comment. You make a good point, and perhaps at some future point those families will be joined together. But, I still believe that refugees should remain in the country of their original landing until they are duly processed. All things must be done in order. What we have here is pure chaos, and is serving no one.
What a mess. These poor families having to leave their homes and all their belongings because of a ruthless dictator and a bunch of murdering thugs. We should work with the Europeans and take some of these people. Isn't this what we are all about? What happened to us? We used to care about people.
2
No, we really didn't use to care about people. We used to need labor, especially cheap, smart labor. We used to treat them badly, and expect them to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. We - and the whole rest of the world - do not need cheap labor any more.
And I know one thing: you would get people who are willing to work to get ahead and to integrate.
The interesting reactions from the other side of the Atlantic o aften display (1) paranoia (2) lack of a sense of causality (2003 Iraq, which destabilized the region, was not a European doing) and (3) the common US lay preacher tone. While the refugees from Syria will test European structures, smart policies should ensure that one can triangulate humanitarian duties with what is possible. Yes, of course the refugees from Syria (and from Lybia, destabilized thanks to my own France) will create problems and tensions. But with clear rules and structures, can be done what should be done without feeding the far right and native European joblessness.
3
Time to face realities:
- the refugees will keep coming, and nothing will stop them. We can impede them for a while, until their amount will overwhelm us. No matter what, they will reach their destination, we just can add some misery to their journey.
All this 'send them back' is mental enfeeblement at least.
- time is always against us. We can ask europe for a fairer share, but it will take month to reach an agreement, if we get an agreement at all. In germany, the the tents, we have used for the summer, will not be sufficient at the end of october. We expect the usual heavy rainfalls and storms you need a solid shelter for. We have two month to find a sustainable solution for nearly half a million people.
- solving the problem at the root ? That's just a joke - it would take immense efforts just to regain syria, many of our people would die, and this is just one human crisis.
We have to build refugee camps, something unseen in europe since WW2. We have to create an infrastructure for one purpose only, to host any kind of a society that got uprooted by war or disaster. And it is not just about food, personal hygiene, medical treatment, the very basics. It is about preserving their cultural heritage, their civil achievements.
ISIS will not last forever, Assad will not last forever, but what is the point of any military victory, if the countries society has been lost. The worlds humanitarian crisis have to be solved in the heart of europe, in one way or another.
- the refugees will keep coming, and nothing will stop them. We can impede them for a while, until their amount will overwhelm us. No matter what, they will reach their destination, we just can add some misery to their journey.
All this 'send them back' is mental enfeeblement at least.
- time is always against us. We can ask europe for a fairer share, but it will take month to reach an agreement, if we get an agreement at all. In germany, the the tents, we have used for the summer, will not be sufficient at the end of october. We expect the usual heavy rainfalls and storms you need a solid shelter for. We have two month to find a sustainable solution for nearly half a million people.
- solving the problem at the root ? That's just a joke - it would take immense efforts just to regain syria, many of our people would die, and this is just one human crisis.
We have to build refugee camps, something unseen in europe since WW2. We have to create an infrastructure for one purpose only, to host any kind of a society that got uprooted by war or disaster. And it is not just about food, personal hygiene, medical treatment, the very basics. It is about preserving their cultural heritage, their civil achievements.
ISIS will not last forever, Assad will not last forever, but what is the point of any military victory, if the countries society has been lost. The worlds humanitarian crisis have to be solved in the heart of europe, in one way or another.
14
Nothing will stop them simply because there is no political will to do so. Merkel is the prime mover in this situation yet she is the one that is calling for Europe wide distribution. Merkel is to trying to promote a façade of magnanimity in accepting 800,000 Syrians but the truth is that Germany has the lowest birthrate in Europe and is in grave danger of population decrease as the replacement rate is well below 2 children per couple.
Instead of trying to prevent this mass immigration, the EU is actively promoting it. Most trying to enter via the Austro-Hungarian borders are economic migrants from the Balkan countries but they fit neatly into the demographic for cheap labour.
Up until 3 or 4 years ago, there was relatively little immigration from Africa and the Middle East and what there was, was fairly easily contained within reasonable limits. Since then, Europe has deliberately fostered the notion that it is relatively easy to get into Europe illegally. There was no attempt at either returning them to the point of origin, nor to properly classify them as either asylum seekers or economic migrants.
Merkel and the EU are trying to engender a feeling of guilt across Europe in order to fulfil the 'European Dream' and they care not about how it is changing the demographics of centuries old culture and National identity to do it. The Elite will be above it all, but not so the lower groups.
Instead of trying to prevent this mass immigration, the EU is actively promoting it. Most trying to enter via the Austro-Hungarian borders are economic migrants from the Balkan countries but they fit neatly into the demographic for cheap labour.
Up until 3 or 4 years ago, there was relatively little immigration from Africa and the Middle East and what there was, was fairly easily contained within reasonable limits. Since then, Europe has deliberately fostered the notion that it is relatively easy to get into Europe illegally. There was no attempt at either returning them to the point of origin, nor to properly classify them as either asylum seekers or economic migrants.
Merkel and the EU are trying to engender a feeling of guilt across Europe in order to fulfil the 'European Dream' and they care not about how it is changing the demographics of centuries old culture and National identity to do it. The Elite will be above it all, but not so the lower groups.
14
No what we need is to reform asylum law to only apply on a regional basis. Afghanistan is in Asia. Syria is in the Middle East , Libya and Eritrea in Africa. Not countries where the EU is responsible or where it should be getting involved. The responsibility for refugees in these regions falls on the neighboring countries followed by supranational organisations the United Nations in particular , followed by the African Union. or Arab League or etc. Refugee camps are already in place in these regions that is where asylum seekers should be send. But we know most of these young men arriving are not asylum seekers but fortune seekers people looking for better financial prospects and have no right to stay. They simply abuse the system which is why we need to reform the asylum laws. Money is best spend on a regional basis it is much cheaper to house a refugee in Turkey,Lebanon,or Jordan than in the EU where cost of living is much higher.
20
You pretend you've given up against the waves of humanity crashing on Europe's shore, but you, Matthias, have all along thought it would be the most moral choice to accept and integrate them. It is not. They won't integrate, and you will lose Germany. You, Germany, can indeed pick and choose whom to take and whom to reject. You, Germany, can do this. And so can the rest of Europe.
Bad government cannot be tolerated in any country that is likely to generate floods of refugees. The countries the refugees flee to have every right to force the refugee-generating countries to mend their ways, by military means if necessary. The right remains even if no one can figure out a workable way of realizing it.
18
I'm sorry if this sounds heartless, but I don't understand why this is Europe's problem to take in these migrants/refugees. Why should they be even be allowed into the Schengen Area? Then this entire issue would be avoided.
48
It does' t just sound heartless; it is. Why? Because these refugees are human beings, like you and me.
4
It is not the EU's problem.
The Eu makes it it's problem for no reason.
What we see is an invasion of people lured by the welfare systems in Europe and taken in by naive and pc politicians and voters in Europe.
These politicians are breaking every law there is about migration in order to please the voting crowds, regardless of the consequences.
These migrants, who bring along their own cultural values, will change societies in Europe in a way that will lead back to the time before Human rights and the acceptance of equal status of woman.
There will be a very expensive and bad economic and social fall out in the near future which has the potential to destroy European states and societies.
All because politicians believe only in the next election day.
The Eu makes it it's problem for no reason.
What we see is an invasion of people lured by the welfare systems in Europe and taken in by naive and pc politicians and voters in Europe.
These politicians are breaking every law there is about migration in order to please the voting crowds, regardless of the consequences.
These migrants, who bring along their own cultural values, will change societies in Europe in a way that will lead back to the time before Human rights and the acceptance of equal status of woman.
There will be a very expensive and bad economic and social fall out in the near future which has the potential to destroy European states and societies.
All because politicians believe only in the next election day.
1
To prevent them from coming in you would have to built an iron curtain - fences are not sufficient - ; this is a migration of unprecedented magnitude, which will go on for years.
Haven't we learned enough from the Nazis in Germany who killed millions. Perhaps it is time for the EU to address the root of the chaos brought upon these refugees. Perhaps it is time for the EU to take on Al Quada, Isis, the Syrian government and who ever else is creating this terrible atmosphere where people are not safe and have to flee their native countries.
15
Tens of thousands of young Muslim men arriving in First World countries with no skills, no money, and no education besides religious indoctrination.
What could possibly go wrong?
What could possibly go wrong?
162
And go right. It is a nation of shop keepers and educated young people as well as some who have less education with strong family ties. Everything is at stake given what they are fleeing. So direct that to a positive outcome for all. Look if some of them were super religious they might have stayed so there is some self selection here.
I live in Germany. In my German language course for beginners there are many Syrians. Most are highly educated, including one veterinarian who will treat dairy cows in rural Germany after language acquisition. Your comment about men having "no skills, no money, and no education besides religious indoctrination" is stunningly ignorant. What do you actually know about these refugees?
4
If they have skills, and Germany wants them, great. No one forbids you from choosing whom you'd like to become citizens.
Where are the women and girls?
46
"Where are the women and girls?"
The men are pioneers, they should ensure a safe place and enough money for the rest of the family to relocate.
And here is some stuff for those who like to cry wolf - once you have granted permanent asylum in germany, relocation of the close family (children, spouses, parents) is financed and administered by the government.
The men are pioneers, they should ensure a safe place and enough money for the rest of the family to relocate.
And here is some stuff for those who like to cry wolf - once you have granted permanent asylum in germany, relocation of the close family (children, spouses, parents) is financed and administered by the government.
12
"Where are the women and girls?"
they're all there, babies and toddlers too.
they're all there, babies and toddlers too.
1
The women and girls have been abandoned in their "war zones." Every man for himself!
18
In the mid 1990s Europe was threatened by Muslim refugees fleeing Kososvo. That is why NATO (mostly us) bombed Serbia for 11 weeks. Also why Europe ignored Rawanda who's refugees could not reach Europe. Now Europe is being over run with refugees due to Islamic extremists. Europe, you deserve your fate. Looks like the English Channel may save Britain again.
8
The idea of a borderless Europe was perhaps conceived to facilitate transnational integration of European life and movement not to cope with the strenuous influx of refugees and migrants caused by authoritarian excesses or civil wars at far off burning borders.
36
I have a qualification to cement the professor's statement. That is, except when civil wars are instigated or directly ignited by U.S. and its NATO followers, formerly colonials themselves. All to please the masters of the universe at Wall Street.
1
Good insight. Europe is never NOT Europe, just as Albion is never NOT perfidious. They didn't form an imperfect union to benefit the great unwashed in the Middle East and Africa: they did it to facilitate the movement of wine and cheese, decidedly among the washed. And, of course, Germany did it as revenge for the outcome of WWII.
If you think this is funny, wait -- they'll be using the same reasons for closing their borders soon enough.
If you think this is funny, wait -- they'll be using the same reasons for closing their borders soon enough.
Given that the majority of these refugees and asylum seekers are from Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria (and other countries that the US attacked or involved in its battle with "terrorism"), and that they are, in US-speak "collateral damage" from the ongoing Bush-era wars, perhaps the US should do the Christian thing and offer them succor. But that would mean admitting that US foreign policy since 9/11 has been an abject failure. And besides, it`s always easier to blame the victim.
31
There is no doubt that Bush destabilized the ME with our invasion and subsequent occupation of Iraq. But we have paid the price for his fiasco, trillions. And we need pay for keeping ISIS at bay.
The EU and UN needs to accommodate these immigrants. .
The EU and UN needs to accommodate these immigrants. .
Easy for a Democrat to call abject failure on Bush's wars. The next Democrat who opens our borders to a million Islamic refugees will be the last for generations though.
You want Europe and the USA to take care of the entirety of the world's civil war refugees? Fine. We can fund refugee camps to be built in Jordan, Turkey, Lebanon, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia. The trip for the refugees will be less arduous, and they'll be in the midst of their Arab brothers and sisters with whom they share far more cultural traits than they do Europeans. Every country should be able to talk openly about preserving their cultural traditions and language without being damned as racists. It was not western "meddling" nor the Iraq War that ultimately caused civil war in Syria. As wrong as Iraqi war adventures have been, it is ultimately long brewing ethnic divisions and oppressive governments that are responsible for these conflicts. You cannot blame the absence of a murderous dictator like Hussein for those historical tensions. If your argument is that the USA should prop up brutal military dictatorships to keep the peace, well, that was Ronald Reagan's viewpoint with El Salvador, Panama, and Nicaragua, and I seriously doubt all you folks clamoring for Europe to absorb 4 million war refugees from Syria would like to have it known that you share that philosophy.
50
The migrant crises is largely the result of globalism and the lack of economic opportunities in Africa and the Arab world. We have created a world-economy where free trade has made some countries stronger; but most others weaker. The Arab and African economies were dominated by small-scale agriculture and local artisans or family businesses. Both the USA and Europe have the bad habit of flooding poorer countries with subsidised agricultural goods, and the asians flood those markets with cheap manufactured goods. Local producers cannot compete and It robs people of their ability to earn a livelihood. Then we wonder when somebody like ISIS comes along and gives some of those people an income and a purpose, or that others are fleeing en masse. Globalism needs to be reformed - should we even be exporting food to other countries, except in cases of natural disaster? Or should all countries be self-reliant for most basic goods and services that they need to survive?
19
The migrant crises is largely the result of religious zealotry in Africa and the Arab world.
All the more reason to bomb Iran, right EU!?
2
If this migration was costing the 1% money, it would be stopped immediately and the migrants would be shipped back. But the 1% actually benefit from this migration as it lowers the price of labor and ultimately lowers their taxes because the public backlash weakens public support for social programs. And when the 99% complain they areally accused of racism, partly through naive sections of the 'left' who unwittingly serve as shock troops for the 1%.
62
Nice summary of the devilish double bind in which the whole immigration / population issue is mired. In 1951 when the UN refugee convention was signed, there were 'just' 2.6 billion people in the world. Now there are 7.3 billion and counting. The pressure on resources, water, environment and social cohesion is mounting. Demographers are projecting Africa's population to double to a staggering 2.5 billion by 2050. It is hard to see this is tenable -- something has to give.
No where do I see the German government mention how it is going to sustain these illegals. If over 800,000 are coming, there are definitely not 800,000 jobs available. And as low-paying jobs disappear, a simple fact of technological advance, what is Germany going to do? What is their magical plan to integrate these people and make them pay taxes? I haven't seen one and I don't believe there is one. Europe is playing a dangerous game and is losing.
83
Maybe you might consider dealing with facts rather than fantasy. Germany is the leading advocate for immigrant quotas. It welcomes some immigrants because of its aging population. But the 800,000 arrivals refer to the number of immigrants they will process, not accept. Since most of the immigrants do not qualify as refugees, Germany will send most of them home. You should not take Merkel for a fool.
10
Don't let facts get in the way of facts.. I see no way for Merkel to redeem her "fool" category.
From: Monday August 24th, 2015 independent.co.uk
"Berlin took the lead in efforts to resolve the European refugee crisis on Monday by declaring all Syrian asylum-seekers welcome to remain in Germany – no matter which EU country they had first entered."
From the same newspaper August 24th.
"Germany drops EU rules to allow in Syrian refugees
Country has suspended deporting asylum-seekers from Syria under the EU’s controversial Dublin Regulation"
And if all else fails from refugeelegalaidinformation there is cafe 104 and the anchor baby route.
"Café 104 provides support for those without official permissions to reside in Germany, for these people have few enforceable rights and are under constant threat of being uncovered and then deported. Café 104 accompanies their clients to the authorities, proposes applications for "Duldung" or humanitarian protection, searches for accommodation, and if required for an application, obtains a medical and psychiatric examination. Café 104 can initiate dialogue with the authorities as a possible pathway to legal status. Another important function is to provide medical and legal assistance to pregnant clients until the residence is clarified after the birth of child.
All this involved are working free of charge, voluntarily, anonymously and independently.
From: Monday August 24th, 2015 independent.co.uk
"Berlin took the lead in efforts to resolve the European refugee crisis on Monday by declaring all Syrian asylum-seekers welcome to remain in Germany – no matter which EU country they had first entered."
From the same newspaper August 24th.
"Germany drops EU rules to allow in Syrian refugees
Country has suspended deporting asylum-seekers from Syria under the EU’s controversial Dublin Regulation"
And if all else fails from refugeelegalaidinformation there is cafe 104 and the anchor baby route.
"Café 104 provides support for those without official permissions to reside in Germany, for these people have few enforceable rights and are under constant threat of being uncovered and then deported. Café 104 accompanies their clients to the authorities, proposes applications for "Duldung" or humanitarian protection, searches for accommodation, and if required for an application, obtains a medical and psychiatric examination. Café 104 can initiate dialogue with the authorities as a possible pathway to legal status. Another important function is to provide medical and legal assistance to pregnant clients until the residence is clarified after the birth of child.
All this involved are working free of charge, voluntarily, anonymously and independently.
Sorry, but for years less than 10% of those who do not qualify as asylum seekers have been sent back. The other 90% are allowed to remain in Germany under sufferance and benefit from the entire range of social services: medical care, housing, schooling plus €350 per person per month. Had they been sent back, there would be more room and resources for those who are really in peril. Most of the German populace want immigrant quotas, but up until now, criticism of this untenable situation has been equated with xenophobia or worse by the mainstream media and most of the feckless politicians.
1
This is not a migration, it is an invasion. Within the next decade, Europe will become a shadow of its former self. It will have morphed into another Middle East.
134
We are 500 millions, so even if 800.000 arrive annually, that will not change much. But of course the integration is a challenge.
1
so when this invasion tips the demographics will ISIS appear and destroy all the art in the Louvre, or how about blowing up the Parthenon or Stonehenge because they are an affront to Islam? Will European women & gays be sexually harassed/threatened by these fundamentalists or as I prefer to call them MINOs (muslims in name only). The EU needs to send them back to the ME/Africa to fix their own nation's problems.
Unless it is stopped cold and soon. Be patient. The Europeans are waking up quickly to this threat to their very survival. The next few years will see major changes in their governments as "far right" and "far left" parties take over and do whatever it takes to both stop this invasion and repatriate/deport those interlopers already basking in the European welfare sun.
In response to K Byars, as you feel smart to admonish Hungary in accepting
more muslim immigrants, I'd like to inform you of a few facts.
Hungary had more german immigrants, like swabs in south western hungary
long before some hungarians and ethnic germans fled to germany
after the catastrophic end to WWII. As you noted they worked like slaves
to earn their keep. Hungary lost its army after Germany forced it to fight along
on the Russian front in 1941-42.Of the 200.000 soldiers less than 5000
came home,among the lost were 3 of my uncles, the fourth only lost
an arm. Following the war the Russians exacted terrible sacrifices through
the communist system they established. Deportations to Siberia in 1956 alone 20000 people, continued. I am sure Komrade Merkel is familiar with
these facts.
So Hungary is not in position economically to accept the 100.000,s Muslim
immigrants.
Mrs Merkel was gracious to invite 800.000 of these Muslims,perhaps you should talk to her to open her arms and welcome them.
more muslim immigrants, I'd like to inform you of a few facts.
Hungary had more german immigrants, like swabs in south western hungary
long before some hungarians and ethnic germans fled to germany
after the catastrophic end to WWII. As you noted they worked like slaves
to earn their keep. Hungary lost its army after Germany forced it to fight along
on the Russian front in 1941-42.Of the 200.000 soldiers less than 5000
came home,among the lost were 3 of my uncles, the fourth only lost
an arm. Following the war the Russians exacted terrible sacrifices through
the communist system they established. Deportations to Siberia in 1956 alone 20000 people, continued. I am sure Komrade Merkel is familiar with
these facts.
So Hungary is not in position economically to accept the 100.000,s Muslim
immigrants.
Mrs Merkel was gracious to invite 800.000 of these Muslims,perhaps you should talk to her to open her arms and welcome them.
16
I would rather be invaded by ethnic Germans who share the Judeo Christian ethic as opposed to the Muslims following the Wahabbist creed. Shouldn't the Arab states with all their oil wealth be doing something to accommodate their co-religionists? Why is this option never discussed? They share a common language and forms of the same religion, so why don't they step
up and help their own?
up and help their own?
1
WWII took my father's life, too. It's time to put that behind you and consider modern Germany. The wars you refer to were merely the tip of an iceberg that was over a thousand years in the making--the agricultural wealth and mines of SE Europe have been a target of would-be rulers since the years of the Crusades, and a target of Muslim invaders from Turkey as well.
Talk of Europe being overrun by refugees is nonsense. Most European countries are hesitant to accept refugees and many resist quotas for fear it will require them to accept too many, not too few.
4
Have you read the news lately?
From the Telegraph:
"Greek holiday island of Lesbos/Lesvos 'overwhelmed' by 13,000 refugees and migrants"
from same article: This is just the island of Lesvos alone.
"On Saturday alone, 4,000 refugees and migrants arrived from the nearby coast of Turkey, making the crossing in rubber dinghies – some of them provided by people smugglers.There were further arrivals on Sunday and Monday. "Similar numbers are expected every day in the week ahead," said the IRC."
The numbers above don't include the thousands a day arriving on the other islands such as Chios, Kos, Leros and Kalymnos.
From the Telegraph:
"Greek holiday island of Lesbos/Lesvos 'overwhelmed' by 13,000 refugees and migrants"
from same article: This is just the island of Lesvos alone.
"On Saturday alone, 4,000 refugees and migrants arrived from the nearby coast of Turkey, making the crossing in rubber dinghies – some of them provided by people smugglers.There were further arrivals on Sunday and Monday. "Similar numbers are expected every day in the week ahead," said the IRC."
The numbers above don't include the thousands a day arriving on the other islands such as Chios, Kos, Leros and Kalymnos.
These migrants will make no effort to assimilate, and their cause is hampered by the fact that ISIS has encouraged recruits to mingle in with them. Europe should unite to close their borders.
94
While this is sad humanitarian news, why do Germans have to be punished with more foreigners? As American, I"m glad these people aren't trying to come to US. Kudos to these escapers for having the courage to go to Germany and UK. They are going to be living a difficult life. Very similar to German Jews during WWII, these people are trying to escape and hope to improve their lives. At some point, they have a story to tell. Regardless, the bad ones are the ones who are inconvening. These people are inconvening the innocents. They are guilty of causing trouble. I wish the escapers well but they are not innocent. Its hard to sympathize them.
5
As American, you should be embarrassed by what your government has done in Iraq and Afghanistan. All these families have found themselves between life and death because of the stupidity of destabilising the Middle East. Who has to pay for their actions? ohh yeah - Europe!
16
John, you might be interested to know that the UK was right along side the US every step of the way in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Don't you remember the videos of Tony Blair playing Bush's toady? The UK is equally guilty.
4
This is not likely to end well.
Europe is ill-prepared to accommodate refugees displaced by war. The number of refugees from Syria and neighboring countries tops 4 million; and many millions more displaced persons could become refugees. There are millions more as parts of Africa and the Greater Middle East destabilize, such as from Yemen, Sudan and South Sudan, Somalia, Ethiopia -- even from Afghanistan. Add to these the normal northern flow of illegal economic immigrants from Africa to Northern Europe through Spain and Italy.
Angela Merkel may wish some unified response that settles refugees throughout Europe, but if she's successful, how will that incentivize millions more?
Europe's labor protections are ill-suited to providing employment to primarily young and penniless immigrants who often don't even speak the language of the host country; and Europeans can't provide work for their OWN young. Their social safety nets are under pressure to support their own populations, and with the incremental withdrawal of the U.S.'s protective military umbrella, social safety nets will need to compete with more guns and soldiers.
There seems to be a progressive sense of the rightness of an osmosis that sees millions of people cross borders whenever they can to seek better lives; but societies are starting to rebel. We need a better solution to this global crisis than simply erecting slums and refugee camps. If we don't find it, the next ten years could see Europe explode.
Europe is ill-prepared to accommodate refugees displaced by war. The number of refugees from Syria and neighboring countries tops 4 million; and many millions more displaced persons could become refugees. There are millions more as parts of Africa and the Greater Middle East destabilize, such as from Yemen, Sudan and South Sudan, Somalia, Ethiopia -- even from Afghanistan. Add to these the normal northern flow of illegal economic immigrants from Africa to Northern Europe through Spain and Italy.
Angela Merkel may wish some unified response that settles refugees throughout Europe, but if she's successful, how will that incentivize millions more?
Europe's labor protections are ill-suited to providing employment to primarily young and penniless immigrants who often don't even speak the language of the host country; and Europeans can't provide work for their OWN young. Their social safety nets are under pressure to support their own populations, and with the incremental withdrawal of the U.S.'s protective military umbrella, social safety nets will need to compete with more guns and soldiers.
There seems to be a progressive sense of the rightness of an osmosis that sees millions of people cross borders whenever they can to seek better lives; but societies are starting to rebel. We need a better solution to this global crisis than simply erecting slums and refugee camps. If we don't find it, the next ten years could see Europe explode.
60
The logical thing for the West to do would be to remove Assad and oversee the construction of a real non-religious democracy in Syria, even if it requires killing every ISIS thug and neutralizing every radical Imam.
1
sapereaudeprime:
Yep. But that would be seen as a direct threat not only by Iran but by the Arab powers in the region. Russia wouldn't be too wild about it, either, because it would have us operating muscularly in what they regard as their back yard -- Assad does them big favors by killing jihadists in Syria so Putin doesn't have to kill them in Russian enclaves.
It didn't need to get this far, but the Obama/Clinton foreign policy propelled us to these desperate straits.
You're right, of course, about what needs to be done. Doing it, though, will require FAR more political will than we can expect from this administration.
Yep. But that would be seen as a direct threat not only by Iran but by the Arab powers in the region. Russia wouldn't be too wild about it, either, because it would have us operating muscularly in what they regard as their back yard -- Assad does them big favors by killing jihadists in Syria so Putin doesn't have to kill them in Russian enclaves.
It didn't need to get this far, but the Obama/Clinton foreign policy propelled us to these desperate straits.
You're right, of course, about what needs to be done. Doing it, though, will require FAR more political will than we can expect from this administration.
It is not "migrant" crisis. They are war refugees.
13
I´m german and it is a well known fact here in Europe that the vast majority of those "refugees" are illegal immigrants who are coming for economical reasons.
Did you ever ask yourself why they are going to Germany, travelling through many safe countries?
Because we offer them more money and our irresponsible gouvernment keeps spreading the information that anyone is welcome in germany. They are crazy.
Did you ever ask yourself why they are going to Germany, travelling through many safe countries?
Because we offer them more money and our irresponsible gouvernment keeps spreading the information that anyone is welcome in germany. They are crazy.
Suppose each country pledges to take in the max, not that the poorer countries won't be asked to help, too. Do you think that would stop the influx? To the contrary. So, at some point, when the strain becomes unbearable, will an editorial from a liberal American paper help the millions attempting to come in? Don't forget, the men, children, etc. streaming in plan to bring the rest of their families, too. Is there an expectation of setting no limits? This will make the Greek economic crisis a joke by comparison.
42
These are not migrants. These are infiltrators. What is the difference? Migrants come to settle, part of a melting pot that eventually made immigrants Americans. Infiltrators do not come to settle but to exploit the hospitality, generosity and political correctness of host country, demand Halal food, build a mosque, demand changes in education curriculum, call wife 2,3,4 single mothers for 4 children and create a metastatic community of the mother country in the host country. These are not secrets but official CAIR agenda.
60
I cannot help questioning how much of this is the result of the Bush's wars in the middle east. This and our toppling of Saddam.
25
I can't help answering how much of this is the result of Obama's lack of war in the Middle East.
Utter nonsense. The pig's share of this mess can be attributed to the puppet Dubyuh and his puppeteer, Cheney: they stirred the wasps' nest to extract the oil below it, for the private profit of Cheney and his cronies in Halliburton.
The "European Union" actually isn't a union, a federation. It's a confederation that lacks a strong central continental authority -- like our much-maligned (often deservedly) "Washington".
Both the thirteen colonies that rebelled against King George III and the eleven slave states that seceded from the Union, militarily challenging Federal authority (and King Abraham Lincoln) were confederations. The former barely succeeded (and only due to foreign military intervention). The latter catastrophically failed (because foreign military intervention was not forthcoming).
The curiously misnamed "Migrant Crisis" is actually a crisis of consensus within the European Confederation. It could potentially destroy it and the Euro currency, perhaps the strongest bond holding that confederation together. South Europe, already reeling economically, demands succor from the north -- the strongest members economically and, one presumes, politically. But the stronger states cannot carry the weaker indefinitely, as Confederate leaders discovered after their Army of Tennessee lost Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama and Georgia.
Current turmoil in financial markets worldwide, often blamed on China, could actually be signaling something different: that the grand European currency experiment, on life support since 2009, is about to fail in an equally grand way.
Both the thirteen colonies that rebelled against King George III and the eleven slave states that seceded from the Union, militarily challenging Federal authority (and King Abraham Lincoln) were confederations. The former barely succeeded (and only due to foreign military intervention). The latter catastrophically failed (because foreign military intervention was not forthcoming).
The curiously misnamed "Migrant Crisis" is actually a crisis of consensus within the European Confederation. It could potentially destroy it and the Euro currency, perhaps the strongest bond holding that confederation together. South Europe, already reeling economically, demands succor from the north -- the strongest members economically and, one presumes, politically. But the stronger states cannot carry the weaker indefinitely, as Confederate leaders discovered after their Army of Tennessee lost Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama and Georgia.
Current turmoil in financial markets worldwide, often blamed on China, could actually be signaling something different: that the grand European currency experiment, on life support since 2009, is about to fail in an equally grand way.
5
Unrestricted immigration into Europe from the failed states of the mid-East and African will lead to ghettos of dislocation, despair, poverty, and crime. We have seen this movie before. And a green light from Europe will certainly lead to immigration in the tens of millions. That is not Europe's moral responsibility, and it is not practical.
The problem must be solved at its source.
There are limited options of influence the western nations can take. Military intervention is a fiasco. That leaves diplomacy, especially the diplomacy of the checkbook. Time to start brokering deals.
The problem must be solved at its source.
There are limited options of influence the western nations can take. Military intervention is a fiasco. That leaves diplomacy, especially the diplomacy of the checkbook. Time to start brokering deals.
50
Many of the refugees are fleeing Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria, places where U.S. intervention has exacerbated the situation. It's easy to criticize the Europeans, but does not our country have a responsibility as well?
23
Yes we do. We are very responsible. But I hope we can contain
our own illegal immigrants by strengthening our own borders.
the editorial tonight is so unrealistic and talks about morality of
the situation. Who are we to talk about the morality of the situation?
Migration issues world wide are most likely the most important
issues world wide. Free trade benefits rich corporations but
doesn't solve these problems.
our own illegal immigrants by strengthening our own borders.
the editorial tonight is so unrealistic and talks about morality of
the situation. Who are we to talk about the morality of the situation?
Migration issues world wide are most likely the most important
issues world wide. Free trade benefits rich corporations but
doesn't solve these problems.
1
Every last one of the migrants/refugees/whatever in these photos is a man. What did they do with all their women? Leave them to their fate back home?
A laudable culture. We need more of it in the West.
A laudable culture. We need more of it in the West.
20
this article may help you:
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/aug/02/women-children-arriving-c...
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/aug/02/women-children-arriving-c...
The "European Union" actually isn't a union, a federation. It's a confederation that lacks a strong central continental authority -- like our much-maligned (often deservedly) "Washington".
Both the thirteen colonies that rebelled against King George III and the eleven slave states that seceded from the Union, militarily challenging Federal authority (and King Abraham Lincoln) were confederations. The former barely succeeded (and only due to foreign military intervention). The latter catastrophically failed (because foreign military intervention was not forthcoming).
The curiously misnamed "Migrant Crisis" is actually a crisis of consensus within European Confederation. It could potentially destroy it and the Euro currency, perhaps the strongest bond holding the confederation together. South Europe, already reeling economically, demands succor from the north -- the strongest members economically and, one presumes, political. But the stronger states cannot carry the weaker indefinitely, as the Confederate States of America's leadership discovered after its armies lost Tennessee, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama and Georgia.
Current turmoil in financial markets worldwide, often blamed on China, could actually be signaling that the grand European currency experiment, on life support since 2009, is about to fail in an equally grand way.
Both the thirteen colonies that rebelled against King George III and the eleven slave states that seceded from the Union, militarily challenging Federal authority (and King Abraham Lincoln) were confederations. The former barely succeeded (and only due to foreign military intervention). The latter catastrophically failed (because foreign military intervention was not forthcoming).
The curiously misnamed "Migrant Crisis" is actually a crisis of consensus within European Confederation. It could potentially destroy it and the Euro currency, perhaps the strongest bond holding the confederation together. South Europe, already reeling economically, demands succor from the north -- the strongest members economically and, one presumes, political. But the stronger states cannot carry the weaker indefinitely, as the Confederate States of America's leadership discovered after its armies lost Tennessee, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama and Georgia.
Current turmoil in financial markets worldwide, often blamed on China, could actually be signaling that the grand European currency experiment, on life support since 2009, is about to fail in an equally grand way.
Over 220,000 Syrians died from the hand of a brutal dictator. Where was Europe? Over 9 million refugees fled their homes. Where was Europe? Not to belittle the point as any loss of life is tragic, but now that a relatively few have perished on European soil, the EU has sprung into action. How should they handle their open border policy? If the borders can't remain open, then Europe will be seriously changed. Aren't they a little late getting started?
A humanitarian crises has occurred of biblical proportions. No action resulted. Now that the flood of misery has begun to walk through their doorways, they forgot where they put the doors. So are doors more important than preventing the loss of 220,000? How righteous is their open door policy contrasted with not trying to prevent mass carnage? They dropped the ball as did we. Everyone in the world dropped the ball.
This flood of people is just starting to flow. Millions will attempt to follow. Doors aren't the issue. Assad and ISIS are the issues. Killing is the issue. The refugees are fleeing certain death.
The free world said this is not our problem. We can't solve this problem. We'll the "problem" just moved in next door. Now what?
The world has a big problem and it's widespread crimes against humanity. Until the world unites to stop these crimes, the "problem" will be coming to a border near you, wherever you are.
A humanitarian crises has occurred of biblical proportions. No action resulted. Now that the flood of misery has begun to walk through their doorways, they forgot where they put the doors. So are doors more important than preventing the loss of 220,000? How righteous is their open door policy contrasted with not trying to prevent mass carnage? They dropped the ball as did we. Everyone in the world dropped the ball.
This flood of people is just starting to flow. Millions will attempt to follow. Doors aren't the issue. Assad and ISIS are the issues. Killing is the issue. The refugees are fleeing certain death.
The free world said this is not our problem. We can't solve this problem. We'll the "problem" just moved in next door. Now what?
The world has a big problem and it's widespread crimes against humanity. Until the world unites to stop these crimes, the "problem" will be coming to a border near you, wherever you are.
13
Something much, much bigger is afoot here. The 1% of the world and their politician allies are allowing this--despite the will of the affected countries--because they want open borders worldwide. They want an end to nations, no borders anywhere, people scattered everywhere for the benefit of the 1%. When the 99% of the world have no "nation" of their own to shelter and protect them, the 1% will be free to call all the shots--and the 99% will be forever forced to take whatever they dole out. Remember why nations were formed in the first place, and see what the world's 1% have to gain by eliminating them. They're already halfway there now.
22
First. Stop blaming Europe. Of course some countries are wealthier than others. And so, all can/should help out in this humanitarian crisis of mega-proportion.
But then again, what most Americans fail to recognize is that there are also much less wealthy European states whose migrating populations are also adding to the endless stream of refugees and migrants. (Google "Schengen Agreement" and "Dublin Regulation")
Also. There is a difference between the two groups; "Refugees/Asylum Seekers" are fleeing war-ravaged countries and political/religious persecution. While "Migrants" are basically fleeing from poverty.
And while most comments here show a genuine sense of well-meaning and sympathy to this problem, in the end, most still wouldn't want to have them in their backyard, which is understandable --The numbers are daunting, and there is little end in sight.
Europe is at its breaking point. Logistically speaking, there are simply too many people to accommodate at the same time. and after awhile---soon-- all the goodwill will turn into mistrust and resentment. The signs are already there: a new wall min Hungary. Neo-Nazi thugs in Germany, Heartless smugglers that leave people to die in a lorry in Austria--- the list goes on and will go on. As long as killing people for a profit goes on. And we all know how long that can go on...
But then again, what most Americans fail to recognize is that there are also much less wealthy European states whose migrating populations are also adding to the endless stream of refugees and migrants. (Google "Schengen Agreement" and "Dublin Regulation")
Also. There is a difference between the two groups; "Refugees/Asylum Seekers" are fleeing war-ravaged countries and political/religious persecution. While "Migrants" are basically fleeing from poverty.
And while most comments here show a genuine sense of well-meaning and sympathy to this problem, in the end, most still wouldn't want to have them in their backyard, which is understandable --The numbers are daunting, and there is little end in sight.
Europe is at its breaking point. Logistically speaking, there are simply too many people to accommodate at the same time. and after awhile---soon-- all the goodwill will turn into mistrust and resentment. The signs are already there: a new wall min Hungary. Neo-Nazi thugs in Germany, Heartless smugglers that leave people to die in a lorry in Austria--- the list goes on and will go on. As long as killing people for a profit goes on. And we all know how long that can go on...
11
And folks...this is not even the beginning of what's to come given the unhappy union of global warming, corrupt African governments, resource dependent economies....and of course, endless fertility and a mind-set that hates women's rights and family planning.
19
Would all of this be prevented if World Governments simply functioned correctly?
1
Refugees, not migrants. Refugees. Most politicians and mainstream media like the NYT do not want to call them refugees (more than 60%) because it would guarantee them certain rights under international law, like not being deported. And forget about talking about the foreign policy of the US and it's allies -thank you Bush, Obama, Hillary, Saudi Arabia- that has caused, and continues to cause, much of the death and destruction in the Middle East these poor souls are fleeing from.
5
Open borders is an absurd idea. It will lead to chaos and violence. There must be some minimal set of rules and laws to insure public order.
10
As far as I am concerned - futuristic outlook is one with countries without borders - actually let us not even call them countries - but confluence of communities. The world should be an open domain for everyone - where ever they wish to go, choose to stay as long as they become part of that community, provide for it, help it grow amicably - without racial or cultural bias.
No more Europes and Americas or Asia's. We must be nuts - not to realize this. Don't we see that - we all have the same culture - the culture of i-phones and tweets? We mean no harm to anyone as long as you leave us with our screens and tweets, our devices and our inherent need to survive and propagate.
LIVE and LET LIVE...
No more wars...
No more Europes and Americas or Asia's. We must be nuts - not to realize this. Don't we see that - we all have the same culture - the culture of i-phones and tweets? We mean no harm to anyone as long as you leave us with our screens and tweets, our devices and our inherent need to survive and propagate.
LIVE and LET LIVE...
No more wars...
1
I don't know why the NYT insists Europe has an obligation to take in these people. They don't. They are uneducated, backwards and will add nothing to society. And please don't call me a racist. This is just the reality of the situation. Europe has a wonderful way of life. Letting in these so-called migrants will destroy these countries.
76
Why not emphasize this was caused solely by Obama and Hillary making ignortant decisions to overthrow secular anti-Islamic leaders in Libya and Syria and get precisely the chaos that any knowledgeable person predicted. And it is chaos that disrupted the lives of tens of millions of people on the ground, but now is strengthening fascist forces in Europe. Let us pray that the next Republican President picks top officials like Richard Haass and Jon Huntsman who actually know something.
2
These are the type of scenes that lead to right wing political ascendence. The weak and feckless European governments better get control of this situation very quickly. The populace will not just stand and watch their nations overrun. Bring out the army.
Three trains FULL of migrants just coming through? Has the Austrian government just given up and handed over their country to anarchy?
Three trains FULL of migrants just coming through? Has the Austrian government just given up and handed over their country to anarchy?
24
The recent mass deaths were caused by transporting people by truck in excessive heat. If checks along the Austrian/Hungarian border are fto detect similar dangerous smuggling, they can wave through all cars and a good number of trucks. That's what the Border Patrol does in the San Diego area, and it causes no back-ups. It sounds like the new checks may target many more than necessary, calling into question whether they are protecting migrants or seeking to deport them.
1
Europe is already densely populated and is facing economic hardships. Therefore it can no longer provide adequate resources for the growing influx of refugees. I think the US should begin to help Europe deal with this crisis because it has the land and resources to do so.
For instance, the US has a lot of abandoned houses in many of its cities that have declining populations (Detroit, Camden, Cleveland, Gary, etc...). Instead of letting these houses rot due to neglect, the US should fix up these houses let the refugees trying to migrate to and around Europe move into them. These refugees are trying to create better lives for themselves, might as well put all their energy into revitalizing our decrepit cities.
For instance, the US has a lot of abandoned houses in many of its cities that have declining populations (Detroit, Camden, Cleveland, Gary, etc...). Instead of letting these houses rot due to neglect, the US should fix up these houses let the refugees trying to migrate to and around Europe move into them. These refugees are trying to create better lives for themselves, might as well put all their energy into revitalizing our decrepit cities.
3
And you think they'll stay in those houses?
2
Yes, the U.S. should help Europe deal with the migrant crisis and we should begin by helping migrants come to our own country and rehousing them here -- by the thousands, not just a token few. The migrant crisis should not be a disaster confronting Europe alone -- the U.S. has a huge moral responsibility for the chaos in the Middle East beginning with with our invasion, occupation and destabilization of Iraq, our role in the regime change in Libya and our war in Afghanistan. We have done much to create the present-day chaos in the Middle East and Europe should not have to face this crisis alone.
3
Israel is within walking distance for Syrians fleeing genocide. The Nazi Holocaust resonates with the refrain "Never again".
How is it that Israel has not accepted even one Syrian refugee fleeing another Holocaust while third-world neighbors, Lebanon, Jordan have accepted 1 million and 4 million refugees respectively.
Likewise, Israel with the largest Navy in the region has not participated in even a single rescue operation in the Mediterranean.
Why is Washington and AIPAC silent on this? Why is our Ambassador to the UN, Samantha Power (Author:America and the Age of Genocide) also mute?
How is it that Israel has not accepted even one Syrian refugee fleeing another Holocaust while third-world neighbors, Lebanon, Jordan have accepted 1 million and 4 million refugees respectively.
Likewise, Israel with the largest Navy in the region has not participated in even a single rescue operation in the Mediterranean.
Why is Washington and AIPAC silent on this? Why is our Ambassador to the UN, Samantha Power (Author:America and the Age of Genocide) also mute?
32
What a foolish remark/question. Would you prefer they compete with the 50-60,000 Africans who can't go home, but unable to find work (plenty of unemployment in Israel, as low paying jobs go to Palestinians who commute daily from the W.Bank)? Should the Syrians move into refugee camps in Gaza? Lebanon is falling apart from the strain; its border with Syria has always been porous. By the way, Israel probably has taken in, quietly, some Syrian Druze and have more or less committed to help them. Don't expect more. Maybe Greece should take in millions, and you and your rich NY friends pay for it all? A joke.
4
Not true. Israel accepted 160.000 Lebanese refugees by 2000. 180.000 Palestinians are in Israel illegally. 60.000 African infiltrators. Saudie, Gulf states, Lebanon traditionally refused refugees. Syrian refugees are due Bashar Al Assad, ISIS, Turkey, Iran not Israel.
3
Are you psyhotic? What makes you even think any of the syrians would even want to go into Israel?
FYI, Israel has treated many wounded syrians for free in their hospitals, including women and children.
Second, why is this Israel's responsibility in the least, when it is technically at war with syria, and has been for almost 70 years?
3rd, many polls over the years in syria showed widespread support for hamas and other terrorist groups in their attacks on Israeli jews. The hamas HQ was in Damascus for years.
These facts, and your lack of understanding them, portray a cluelessness about the mideast.
FYI, Israel has treated many wounded syrians for free in their hospitals, including women and children.
Second, why is this Israel's responsibility in the least, when it is technically at war with syria, and has been for almost 70 years?
3rd, many polls over the years in syria showed widespread support for hamas and other terrorist groups in their attacks on Israeli jews. The hamas HQ was in Damascus for years.
These facts, and your lack of understanding them, portray a cluelessness about the mideast.
14
This will lead to disaster for Europe. Absolute disaster.
83
If EU countries do not commit to integrating these migrants culturally and economically, and instead pack them, unassimilated, into suburbs as was done in France, they should close entry to further migrants and expel immediately all new migrants. Otherwise, the next (and current)generation will contain "disaffected" persons lacking the same cultural values as the present citizenry, a pending disaster on the order of The Battle of Algiers. Like in the US, the "elites" in government will not be impacted for their actions (or non-actions) but the majority of citizens will be, turning their cities into apocalyptic, nightmarish urban war civil zones, while the former skulk in their secure towers and gated communities, travelling to work in armored limos.
2
And economically will impact us as well.
1
The collapse of states leads to this.
And if you want to trace back to what was the match that lit the fuse on this regional nightmare, look no further than the former US president pictured grinning and dancing in New Orleans a few days ago.
We broke it, and now all of the West owns it.
The continuing aftermath of Shock and Awe, the disruption of an albeit despicable status quo, but without a single sober thought as to what would result regionally. If I was Europe, I would be placing these refugees on steamers, decent accommodations, destination Texas.
And if you want to trace back to what was the match that lit the fuse on this regional nightmare, look no further than the former US president pictured grinning and dancing in New Orleans a few days ago.
We broke it, and now all of the West owns it.
The continuing aftermath of Shock and Awe, the disruption of an albeit despicable status quo, but without a single sober thought as to what would result regionally. If I was Europe, I would be placing these refugees on steamers, decent accommodations, destination Texas.
20
Yep, as Colin Powell said before the war, "if we break it, we own it." That's why "W" got rid of him.
2
Perhaps a referendum should be put to the people of the EU concerning the migrant problem. If the EU was truly a democratic institution (which it is not) there might be a more united front to confront this truly tragic migration problem.
23
Too late, and besides, human rights issues should never be decided by referendum.
1
These people are refugees, not migrants. There is a big difference.
2
Sorry Nancy, that simply will not happen. A recent European Poll suggested that as many as 71%h of the European Population had concern about the social and security problems from mass non-EU immigration.
The EU simply would not put the situation to the test because they are almost certain to lose and that would put the strategy of flooding the Continent with cheap and compliant labour in order to satisfy the conglomerates who wish to reduce labour costs in order to compete on an equal footing with burgeoning Asian and Far Easter economies. A glut in the labour market is beneficial to large businesses but would see mass unemployment such as was seen in the 1930's depression.
Anyone that ever believed that the EU was a Social and Political Union really needs a reality check. It is quite simply a plutocracy led by tens of thousands of lobbyists controlling a weak and corrupt Commission
The EU simply would not put the situation to the test because they are almost certain to lose and that would put the strategy of flooding the Continent with cheap and compliant labour in order to satisfy the conglomerates who wish to reduce labour costs in order to compete on an equal footing with burgeoning Asian and Far Easter economies. A glut in the labour market is beneficial to large businesses but would see mass unemployment such as was seen in the 1930's depression.
Anyone that ever believed that the EU was a Social and Political Union really needs a reality check. It is quite simply a plutocracy led by tens of thousands of lobbyists controlling a weak and corrupt Commission
5
While compassion and humanitarian concerns may be enlarged spontaneously and without limits, physical resources like food, shelter, medical care, education and employment cannot.
While the unprecedented influx of migrants and aslylum seekers has overwhelmed points of entry in the EU, leaders must extend as much humanitarian aid as possible. The problem is the EU leaders are leaving a very important victim of the migrant crisis out of consideration; the citizens of their respective countries.
In responding to the greatest humanitarian crisis the EU has faced to date its leaders must not create more victims from the crisis out of their own citizens. The undeniable reality is the vast majority of these ecnonmic migrants and asylum seekers will have to be sent back to Syria or their respective points of origin.
It is a tragic but undeniable fact that the EU simply cannot absorb the unknown millions of foreigners who want to relocate to somewhere other than their home countries.
And if the EU leaders don't want another more truck loads of dead economic migrants or drowning of thousands at sea the globally humanitarian response is to use military force in the Mediterranean to interdict the pipeline.
Stabilize the incoming throngs for 90 days than return them a rate of 80%- 90% . Once these individuals learn their is no escape route to the EU the crisis will end.
While the unprecedented influx of migrants and aslylum seekers has overwhelmed points of entry in the EU, leaders must extend as much humanitarian aid as possible. The problem is the EU leaders are leaving a very important victim of the migrant crisis out of consideration; the citizens of their respective countries.
In responding to the greatest humanitarian crisis the EU has faced to date its leaders must not create more victims from the crisis out of their own citizens. The undeniable reality is the vast majority of these ecnonmic migrants and asylum seekers will have to be sent back to Syria or their respective points of origin.
It is a tragic but undeniable fact that the EU simply cannot absorb the unknown millions of foreigners who want to relocate to somewhere other than their home countries.
And if the EU leaders don't want another more truck loads of dead economic migrants or drowning of thousands at sea the globally humanitarian response is to use military force in the Mediterranean to interdict the pipeline.
Stabilize the incoming throngs for 90 days than return them a rate of 80%- 90% . Once these individuals learn their is no escape route to the EU the crisis will end.
22
I would imagine the NY Times' corporate offices have plenty of security, to keep unwanted and unauthorized people out. I guess the don't think Europe deserves the same considerations...
80
The Europeans and Americans who lived in ethno nationalist states have long blabbered that they are "tolerant" human beings (ironically, they said this while being at the shadow of the Holocaust and Jim Crow). France and America invaded Libya. Canada, America, Australia and Britain invaded Iraq. America invaded Syria. Germany, after committing Holocaust, refused to be held accountable for the Palestinian refugees. The Europeans and Americans have long invaded the Arab world. So why are the same Europeans and Americans so fearful about Arab refugees arriving in Europe or America? Do you think you can invade Arab land sans its populations?
If you have ever wondered why Blacks and White Americans do not get along, read some of the comments left behind by European immigrants to America, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Latin America whose forefathers destroyed and wiped out the culture of the natives.
If you have ever wondered why Blacks and White Americans do not get along, read some of the comments left behind by European immigrants to America, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Latin America whose forefathers destroyed and wiped out the culture of the natives.
3
Wow. It's like you think the US was the first country in the history of the world to conquer another land. New bulletin: People have taken things and land from others since the beginning of time. There was a first person that stepped on the North American continent. Everyone coming after that took his land.
7
Rando: Remind me again - when did the US invade Lybia?
Gregory ATL,
Using your rationales, why couldn't Africans and Muslims arrive in truckloads, trainloads, busloads and shiploads to take "things and lands from others"?
Using your rationales, why couldn't Africans and Muslims arrive in truckloads, trainloads, busloads and shiploads to take "things and lands from others"?
I was always appalled by the unwillingness of the US and UK to take more Jews during WWll. It's so heartbreaking to read that a majority of commenters would still turn away a refugee family in desperate need.
34
So, uh, how many refugees have the Jews in Israel rescued? Like none.
Quite a few, actually. The refugees they rescue are people fleeing persecution by Islamists who settled in France under the cover of refugee status.
Refugee family? These are illegal immigrants not fleeing war, but going to what they believe are the wealthier nations. If they were refugees, they would stop once they crossed the first border.
In Switzerland last month, a group of co-workers and I hailed a taxi. The cab driver was from the Middle East. Making conversation, we asked if he liked living in Switzerland. He replied that he did not, that there were "way too many lesbians and gays" and it was too liberal. He then proceeded to openly make crude comments about the women in our group to the men. We were offended and frankly felt threatened.
Anecdotal and certainly not representative of the views of ALL migrants from the Middle East - but it is a fact that women and minorities, especially gays, are discriminated against in Muslim culture. Expecting Europe to welcome hundreds of thousands of migrants who do not share their culture, value system, or even care to try to is absurd - and there will be a backlash.
Anecdotal and certainly not representative of the views of ALL migrants from the Middle East - but it is a fact that women and minorities, especially gays, are discriminated against in Muslim culture. Expecting Europe to welcome hundreds of thousands of migrants who do not share their culture, value system, or even care to try to is absurd - and there will be a backlash.
154
Should we deport all the homophobes and religious bigots here in the US back to their ancestors' ' countries of origin?
5
Actually, that is the way much of the world is.....and frankly, especially if they are from highly conservative religions such as Islam.
10
You can't find the planet "Phobianous" anymore. We're stuck with bigots and X-phobes. But the mega phone should not be handed to them on a world class newspaper.
4
From the photos I see in the news, it looks like many more young men than women in the fleeing masses. What will happen if the women are left behind., In India, there are more men than women and rape follows.
My heart goes out to Europe. All of this mass migration will, no doubt, scare off
tourists who help the European economy.
My heart goes out to Europe. All of this mass migration will, no doubt, scare off
tourists who help the European economy.
32
The "open borders" concept in the EU was never meant to apply to refugees entering the union - it was to ensure that citizens of the EU countries could travel unimpeded within the union. How to deal with outsiders should have been resolved before the EU was fully implemented. Physical entry into the EU needs to be restricted by EU borders guards, similar to our US border guards and hopefully more effectively.
109
The EU has a policy on war refugees. It is revisiting that policy.
2
"The "open borders" concept in the EU was never meant to apply to refugees entering the union."
Europe has assigned agreements to accept refugees. It is the law.
Europe has assigned agreements to accept refugees. It is the law.
The UN actually, not just the EU.
2
Here's the problem. The number of people in war-torn areas who want to ecsape for the better life in the richest parts of Europe vastly outnumber the entire population in Europe. They're leaving the counties that have the greatest growth of population. The stream of illegal migrants will certainly grow. I guess we just thought the extreme population growth would be good for the markets and all those people would just stay in their own dismal country. This needs a different, long term plan.
40
One world, one race. That's the future.
2
The temple of Bel is gone. ISIS did this. Bel has stood through countless wars. The world has watched as Syria has been destroyed.
8
Am I the only one who finds it ironic so many are fleeing the House of Peace (Dar es Salaam) and struggling at all costs to get into the House of War (Dar al Harb)? Or that the House of Peace is torn by war in almost all its corners while the House of War is mainly only burdened by political violence committed by its visitors from the House of Peace?
18
Yes
7
When they were forming the EU, I guess nobody ever asked this question: what if the Middle East and North Africa totally fall apart and they all decide to come here? Likewise, I guess they never pondered the likelihood of economic turmoil (e.g., PIGS).
It's a shame the EU faces such existential threats so soon after its formation, but then I guess it's to be expected. They seem to have assumed the relative stability of the 1990s would last forever. I wish it had. It didn't.
Now what?
It's a shame the EU faces such existential threats so soon after its formation, but then I guess it's to be expected. They seem to have assumed the relative stability of the 1990s would last forever. I wish it had. It didn't.
Now what?
22
A better question would be "what if the Middle East and North Africa totally fall apart because of our short-sighted intervention and they all decide to come here?
6
Well, being the gracious hosts we are when we're not droning, or invading and destroying other countries under the umbrella of spreading democracy, we should welcome them, apologize to them for all the suffering and death and destruction, and offer to take their place in misery by immigrating ourselves to their war torn countries.
1
Just wanted to flag the error in that map. The country to the north of Hungary and Austria is Slovakia, not Czech Rep.
2
Where are the safe golf Arab countries who spend billions of dollars on extravagance? How come they don't take on some of the responsibility for these refugees from war torn Syria and Yemen given that they are major players in the wars aflicting these countries directly or covertly. Europe has done more than its fair share. It is a shame that rich Arab countries are turning a blind eyes to the human catastrophe and devastation that is taking place as we speak. SHAME!!!!!
87
Why should they? Americans invaded Iraq and Syria.
1
With oil prices where they are, and the world
economy deteriorating as it is, those Gulf states are all on the precipice, every last one of them. The Saudi royals literally buy the allegiance of their citizens. That can't last long if oil prices stay below $70. What happens next is anyone's guess.
economy deteriorating as it is, those Gulf states are all on the precipice, every last one of them. The Saudi royals literally buy the allegiance of their citizens. That can't last long if oil prices stay below $70. What happens next is anyone's guess.
8
Rando -- remind me. When did the US invade Syria?
4
Such horrible conditions world wide for these immigrants. Wonder why the UN and other countries don't do something proactive to curb these horrific conditions in their home lands.
Wait until religious disagreements emerge.
49
That will not be a long wait.
1
Why don't they just stop supporting the regime change in Syria, let Assad defeat the terrorists, win the war and bring peace to the country? Isn't the civil war in Syria and Iraq the fundamental reason for this whole refugee crisis?
12
Most of the Europe's leaders, including Barack Obama, supported the so-called Arab Spring, which fomented the destabilizing of the region. Admitting their incompetence now, by allowing Assad to restore order in Syria would be acknowledgement of their incompetence. Make no mistake, this disaster has been caused by our recent crop of world leaders.
2
Some things in history are inevitable, Ray. The "Arab Spring" was at least a century in the making, if not much longer.
2
We only supported the "Arab Spring" in countries whose government we wanted to overthrow. In others, like Egypt, we are supporting those who overthrew the first democratically elected government in its history, which came to power after the Arab Spring. And in Syria, Lybia, we began arming anyone and everyone who would fight for the US interests, not for that countries interests. In Yemen it's Saudi Arabia doing the dirty work with all those US weapons they have been stockpiling over the years. Now you have the result.
2
Very shocking editorial from the NYT (Europe Must Reform Its Deadly Asylum Policies) unfortunately not open to discussion, once again taking the moral stance towards continental Europe (conveniently forgetting Britain which obviously does not take its share). How about Canada and the US, large and prosperous countries, taking theirs (illegal forecasted immigration in the US 550 k, 800 k in Germany alone ...)
2
If I had to choose between the inconvenience of sitting in a traffic jam or a girl being kidnapped as a sexual slave, I would thank my lucky stars that I had a car in which I could be in a traffic jam.
This is the world we live in now. The migrants don't want to join ISIS, be bombed out of existence in a war, or be victims of slavery. They want to work and live in peace. If there are violent outliers, well, that's the world we live in.
This is the world we live in now. The migrants don't want to join ISIS, be bombed out of existence in a war, or be victims of slavery. They want to work and live in peace. If there are violent outliers, well, that's the world we live in.
14
Genuine refugees from war-torn regions notwithstanding, one has to wonder how many economic illegal migrants that Europe can truly take on? If Europe really is to open its border, there are a couple of billion people in South Asia, Africa, Middle East, to name but a few, all want in, everyone expecting "a better life." Even if EU member countries are to distribute them eventually, can they take on all of them when they rush the shore?
If Europe is to open its border (and Europe can tout its humanitarian ideals all it wants), it'll surely invite more economic illegals from taking on these dangerous attempts to smuggle in. Blaming the smugglers is easy enough, but smuggling is just a symptom rather than the root cause, smugglers are there simply to satisfy the vast demands for these people to get in to Europe. These economic illegals are simply piggybacking on the real refugees.
In that sense, I can certainly comprehend why the anti-migrant sentiments are rising in all the countries.
If Europe is to open its border (and Europe can tout its humanitarian ideals all it wants), it'll surely invite more economic illegals from taking on these dangerous attempts to smuggle in. Blaming the smugglers is easy enough, but smuggling is just a symptom rather than the root cause, smugglers are there simply to satisfy the vast demands for these people to get in to Europe. These economic illegals are simply piggybacking on the real refugees.
In that sense, I can certainly comprehend why the anti-migrant sentiments are rising in all the countries.
157
I'm sure it's true that most (as in something more than half) are not true refugees by definition, but it's also true that only a desperate person accepts the dangers and uncertainty all of these people are facing, and you can bet they all know the dangers...they read the papers, too.
Any concerted effort to stop the flow will only result in thousands dying on Europe's doorstep. I don't know the answer, but I fear -- in these uncertain and rapidly changing times -- that what we are actually seeing now are the seeds of a world war. Because the only way to stem the tide is to give people a reason to stay home in the first place, and they won't do that until some semblance of peace and stability return.
As history shows, that often only comes in the wake of total war.
Any concerted effort to stop the flow will only result in thousands dying on Europe's doorstep. I don't know the answer, but I fear -- in these uncertain and rapidly changing times -- that what we are actually seeing now are the seeds of a world war. Because the only way to stem the tide is to give people a reason to stay home in the first place, and they won't do that until some semblance of peace and stability return.
As history shows, that often only comes in the wake of total war.
2
"Yemen's humanitarian crisis leaves a million people in dire straits," headline of European newspaper. Will this be the next group of refugees to seek safety?
1
@SSm, that is indeed the quickest way to purge opposition in one's own country, by treating the opponents so badly, maiming them, and terrorizing them into leaving and going somewhere else.
Such is indeed the dilemma. Should other countries step in to help their people rid of terrible regime (thereby being labeled as "colonial power"?), or should they be left alone (thereby awaiting the next big wave of "refugees" rushing your shore)? You tell me.
Such is indeed the dilemma. Should other countries step in to help their people rid of terrible regime (thereby being labeled as "colonial power"?), or should they be left alone (thereby awaiting the next big wave of "refugees" rushing your shore)? You tell me.
1
There goes the NYT again with its Open Border slant.
With no evidence - aside of the NYT's "belief", it asserts "the influx of migrants from war-ravaged areas of the Middle East, Afghanistan and Africa"
How odd that it omits the thousands that are coming from Bangladesh, the Ivory Coast of Africa (one just murdered an elderly couple in Italy & went back with his stolen loot to the migrant shelter where he lives), Vietnam, Algiers & a long list of places that are poor but not at war.
The LA TImes today did a piece (Open Borders slant) & profiled a man who snuck into Greece and then north - "At a Macedonian way station, Syrian and other migrants focus on the path ahead " Yes he was born in Syria- but he hasn't lived there in 11 years! He has been living in Dubai all this time running a cell phone store but decided he would rather be in Holland and left his wife & teenagers in Dubai. He is not a refugee - he is an ECONOMIC migrant.
In 2014, 55% of applications for asylum in the EU were REJECTED as economic migrants.
Even Germany has said these people flooding in have tossed their documents showing who they are & where they are from - and gee, now they are all Syrian (sarcasm)
As far as the Syrians go, Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan have huge UN refugee camps for them. They pass through Turkey (safe) & aim for the wealthier EU. Desperate? Not when they leave safe countries for the EU!!
The EU can NOT absorb millions of Muslims who don't assimilate with the west
With no evidence - aside of the NYT's "belief", it asserts "the influx of migrants from war-ravaged areas of the Middle East, Afghanistan and Africa"
How odd that it omits the thousands that are coming from Bangladesh, the Ivory Coast of Africa (one just murdered an elderly couple in Italy & went back with his stolen loot to the migrant shelter where he lives), Vietnam, Algiers & a long list of places that are poor but not at war.
The LA TImes today did a piece (Open Borders slant) & profiled a man who snuck into Greece and then north - "At a Macedonian way station, Syrian and other migrants focus on the path ahead " Yes he was born in Syria- but he hasn't lived there in 11 years! He has been living in Dubai all this time running a cell phone store but decided he would rather be in Holland and left his wife & teenagers in Dubai. He is not a refugee - he is an ECONOMIC migrant.
In 2014, 55% of applications for asylum in the EU were REJECTED as economic migrants.
Even Germany has said these people flooding in have tossed their documents showing who they are & where they are from - and gee, now they are all Syrian (sarcasm)
As far as the Syrians go, Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan have huge UN refugee camps for them. They pass through Turkey (safe) & aim for the wealthier EU. Desperate? Not when they leave safe countries for the EU!!
The EU can NOT absorb millions of Muslims who don't assimilate with the west
187
The thinly veiled racism in these anti-immigrant comments is saddening.
13
It is not a race thing, it's a cultural thing, and culture and natioanl identity is huge in each European country....their residents don't want to be a melting pot, they love to preserve their values and traditions.
70
Say, you really know your stuff! You said it better than I could. I'm impressed.
Let's also not forget that the world population is skyrocketing (another Mexico every two years) with most of the growth coming from Africa, the Mideast, South America, and Asia.
Let's also not forget that the world population is skyrocketing (another Mexico every two years) with most of the growth coming from Africa, the Mideast, South America, and Asia.
11
Problem is if you let one migrant in then you have to allow ALL to come in.
26
As in there goes the neighborhood? You people are too much with these comments.
I know my great grandparents fled Russia and then lived in Sweden for a time before making it to America. I couldnt presume to know the circumstances or motivations of anyone else.
I know my great grandparents fled Russia and then lived in Sweden for a time before making it to America. I couldnt presume to know the circumstances or motivations of anyone else.
1
The politicians fiddle while Europe is invaded. And the liberal media, elites and PC police, here and in Europe, want to pretend there are no costs or consequences to the open border policy they have devised, and accuse any criticism as coming from racists.
It is all too clear that the magnitude of the illegal immigrants will destroy Europe if allowed to continue. These people are gaming the system. A full stop at the points of entry is what is needed as well as a total elimination of any benefits that are currently provided, including the ability to get jobs.
When that dries up, and the borders are patrolled, this invasion will diminish.
It is all too clear that the magnitude of the illegal immigrants will destroy Europe if allowed to continue. These people are gaming the system. A full stop at the points of entry is what is needed as well as a total elimination of any benefits that are currently provided, including the ability to get jobs.
When that dries up, and the borders are patrolled, this invasion will diminish.
167
Who are you and why are you so mean? These people are fleeing appalling conditions.
9
let them settle in Berkeley then ...
14
Why don't you take them in your own home?
9
Keep 'em coming. It is only a matter of time when Europe gets their fill and stops the flow. So, why aren't these Muslims fleeing to a Muslim country?
103
Terrific question. You never hear about people fleeing a Christian country..
7
Those reaching Europe represent a small percentage of the 4 million Syrians who have fled into Lebanon, Jordan, Turkey and Iraq, making Syria the biggest single source of refugees in the world and the worst humanitarian emergency in more than four decades. - Washington post.
9
Really? All Latin American countries are Christian, yet plenty of people flee them. Christianity holds no special place among human rights violators.
7
Those Hungarians who are building fences to keep the desperate Syrians out and who shove any refugees that managed to get in to Hungary on to Germany in cattle cars as fast as they can, should stop and think.
Germany was flooded with Hungarians after World War II, we opened our villages and cities to them, we provided them with everything they needed. They were by no means "our kind of people", (which is what they claim about the Syrians) the women wore eight or more long skirts and tiny crochet slippers but they worked hard and long like men. In 1948, once Germany had its own currency, they were compensated for the farms and livestock they left behind. They built houses and started businesses and thrived.
One of the Hungarian girls worked for us while my mother was expecting and while my sister was an infant,what an experience that was. She planted a Hungarian Garden, we ate peppers like we had never seen before. She grew poppies with huge seed pods which she ground for the best poppy seed cake.She got eight geese because she said we needed feather beds and pillows for the new child. She force fed them with something she ground up which gave us foie grasse. And we had rooms full of feathers that needed stripping, for which we got a room full of old Hungarian women to separate the feathers from the quill. I was five when she started working for us and about eight when she got married and left us.
We embraced Hungarian refugees, they should embrace Syrian refugees.
Germany was flooded with Hungarians after World War II, we opened our villages and cities to them, we provided them with everything they needed. They were by no means "our kind of people", (which is what they claim about the Syrians) the women wore eight or more long skirts and tiny crochet slippers but they worked hard and long like men. In 1948, once Germany had its own currency, they were compensated for the farms and livestock they left behind. They built houses and started businesses and thrived.
One of the Hungarian girls worked for us while my mother was expecting and while my sister was an infant,what an experience that was. She planted a Hungarian Garden, we ate peppers like we had never seen before. She grew poppies with huge seed pods which she ground for the best poppy seed cake.She got eight geese because she said we needed feather beds and pillows for the new child. She force fed them with something she ground up which gave us foie grasse. And we had rooms full of feathers that needed stripping, for which we got a room full of old Hungarian women to separate the feathers from the quill. I was five when she started working for us and about eight when she got married and left us.
We embraced Hungarian refugees, they should embrace Syrian refugees.
7
These Syrians don't want to stay in Hungary. They want to go on to Germany, Sweden and the UK. Hungary is not their intended destination. So the Hungarians should fence them in and keep them in Hungary against their will?
I understand that it was nice to have a Hungarian slave girl working for your family after World War II but those experiences don't apply today. These Syrians are not interested in becoming servants in Hungarian households. Much rather, they intend to draw on the welfare systems of Germany, the Scandinavian countries and the UK, living in their biggest cities. I am afraid that planting gardens in the countryside is not on the agenda in this wave of immigration.
I understand that it was nice to have a Hungarian slave girl working for your family after World War II but those experiences don't apply today. These Syrians are not interested in becoming servants in Hungarian households. Much rather, they intend to draw on the welfare systems of Germany, the Scandinavian countries and the UK, living in their biggest cities. I am afraid that planting gardens in the countryside is not on the agenda in this wave of immigration.
70
There was no "flood" of Hungarian refugees in Germany after WWII.
If those people "were compensated for the farms and livestock they left behind", then I think you talk about ethnic Germans who were forcefully evicted from Hungary by the communists. About 185,000 ethnic Germans were sent to Germany by force. Their houses, land, etc. were confiscated by the government.
But, even then, to equate the difference between Hungarians and Syrians to the difference between Hungarians and Germans is way off.
"We embraced Hungarian refugees, they should embrace Syrian refugees."
Syrians do not want to stay in Hungary, they want to go to Germany, Sweden, and any other rich country they can get into.
If those people "were compensated for the farms and livestock they left behind", then I think you talk about ethnic Germans who were forcefully evicted from Hungary by the communists. About 185,000 ethnic Germans were sent to Germany by force. Their houses, land, etc. were confiscated by the government.
But, even then, to equate the difference between Hungarians and Syrians to the difference between Hungarians and Germans is way off.
"We embraced Hungarian refugees, they should embrace Syrian refugees."
Syrians do not want to stay in Hungary, they want to go to Germany, Sweden, and any other rich country they can get into.
47
Wow. You are truly clueless. You need to read a few books about massive forced repatriation of ethnic Germans to what remained of Germany at the end of WWII.
13
Nations need to control their borders. This has been true in Europe since Eastern Europeans turned back Ottoman invasions in the Seventeenth Century. Could Europe be about to succumb, not with a bang from the right, but with whimpers from the left.
71
It appears that you have mislabeled Slovakia as the Czech Republic in the figure. Slovakia is directly north of Hungary and East of Vienna while the Czech Republic is north of Vienna and directly East of Germany.
3
this has been fixed now. thank you.
It looks what will end Europe-without-border is the inability of its leaders to provide a timely response to a crisis of that magnitude. Nobody saw it coming and now every politician is scared of looking like an anti-muslim bigot - which ironically is a ridicule they worked so hard to establish - that no decisive action will not be taken. Unfortunately for those politicians the problem won't go away and is visible to all regions in Europe. Lots of Europeans are scared and feel invaded. They have no clue what to do with those people, the spectacle is in front of their homes and cannot be ignored. At a time where unemployment is still very high and people are fed-up with taxes, Europeans do not think that they have the resources to cope with the influx of immigration when they've suffered austerity for years. They will turn to new faces in politics who promise "drastic" action, including closing borders and deportation. This is a much bigger threat to Europe than a Grexit or even a Brexit. When borders reappear, the bells will toll for Europe.
100
This is political correctness (in the name of humanitarianism) to the tilt. Calling out any and every opposition to immigration as fascist, is really no different from the McCarthy era, only that the state censorship is from the left instead of the right.
Open borders only work when you are dealing with equals. In the days when living standards in western European countries were more or less the same, there is no mass migration, and everyone's happy. Cracks in the open border policy already appear when eastern Europe join EU, look no further than what's happening in UK. And now, with war torn countries in the middle east joining the fray, mixed in with huge numbers of economic migrants from Africa and S.Asia, the open border policy is no longer sustainable.
If anyone thinks a few thousands a day is bad enough (which makes, what, a little over a million people a year), wait until tens of millions (and more) from Africa and Bangladesh, Pakistan, and more, all rushing in, and that would be closer to the true picture. The question to Europe, open borders or otherwise, is can Europe take them all? I don't really care what Merkel says, but the answer is clearly no.
Open borders only work when you are dealing with equals. In the days when living standards in western European countries were more or less the same, there is no mass migration, and everyone's happy. Cracks in the open border policy already appear when eastern Europe join EU, look no further than what's happening in UK. And now, with war torn countries in the middle east joining the fray, mixed in with huge numbers of economic migrants from Africa and S.Asia, the open border policy is no longer sustainable.
If anyone thinks a few thousands a day is bad enough (which makes, what, a little over a million people a year), wait until tens of millions (and more) from Africa and Bangladesh, Pakistan, and more, all rushing in, and that would be closer to the true picture. The question to Europe, open borders or otherwise, is can Europe take them all? I don't really care what Merkel says, but the answer is clearly no.
121
I don't see why the concepts of "Europe" and "borders" are in contradiction and why "the bells will toll" for Europe if borders are reinstated (at least for the time they are needed)? Borders should come and go as the circumstances necessitate them. Europe as we mean it today has been there for more than 2500 years, sometimes with borders, sometimes without. Under the current circumstances borders clearly need to come back. In better times the idea of borderless free movement (of Europeans into each others' countries, not the movement of millions of immigrants from Asian and African countries) was justified. Today the circumstances are very different, and border policies need to reflect that. We can return to free movement when there is no existential threat for Europe any more in the form of millions of migrants that the continent cannot possibly take in.
17
You imply that this situation would immediately return "Fascist Europe". Perhaps the truth is rather, that it would be a middle ground of guarded borders and closer control, in actuality, a good thing.
1
How can you speak of a "muddled response" by Europe when they are confronted with (tens of) thousands of refugees per day around their borders? This is a migration of an overwhelmingly massive scale that nobody could have foreseen when European countries opened their borders. And not all of them are fleeing persecution. And why is Austria, Hungary, Macedonia etc. not good enough for them? If they only want the wealthiest countries, Germany first and foremost among them, that sounds fishy. I thought this was all about survival.
190
If you had to pick a country for your family...would you pick a poorer country, or would you pick a more prosperous country for your family?
1
Mike - the point is they should not be able to choose which country, as long as its safe.
4
It is curious that the NYtimes readers are so concerned about the influx of refugees in Europe, although these people represent only a minority of a few percent of all people adrift from Syria, Eritrea and a few other places where life is terrible. Countries like Turkey, Libanon and Jordan take in refugees at a much higher rate and do not appear to elicit the same compassion as shown towards Europe. If readers take the effort to look at photos appearing in European newspapers they will see that the refugees are generally anything else than destitute -the price tag for getting to Europe is high. Many of them are well educated and could be integrated in European workforce, just as many people from the poorer European states have been absorbed in the labour market of the richer countries. This mass movement of people is not without problems, but is economically productive. The apocalyptic language used to describe the refugee influx is inappropriate and suggests a problem that is in reality manageable. Europe has coped with refugees in large numbers from Chechoslovakia, Hungary, East Germany and the Balkan and has voluntarily taken in millions of foreign labourers from Turkey and Marocco. This is all not not easy, but European countries that could leave the ravages of the second world war and the communist dictatorships that followed behind them can absorb many more millions of refugees before collapsing.
2
The Hungarians are deserving in their demand for Germany to more clearly define what legal hurdles remain for refugees once they reach Deutschland. They're enticed by the thought of open arms and government aid, but what happens when the Germans are at their peak? What happens when they decide it's time for the rest of EU to share the burden, but no one else is willing to open up? ousands of innocent
5
It matters legally and morally whether or not these human beings are defined as migrants or refugees. Migrants have real choices and time. Refugees have neither.
It matters legally and morally which nations these human beings are coming from and which nations are their desired interim and final destinations.
It matters legally and morally how Europe is defined. There are 50 sovereign European nations. There are 28 nations in the European Union economic alliance. There are 19 nations in the Eurozone currency union.
It matters legally and morally which nations these human beings are coming from and which nations are their desired interim and final destinations.
It matters legally and morally how Europe is defined. There are 50 sovereign European nations. There are 28 nations in the European Union economic alliance. There are 19 nations in the Eurozone currency union.
7
These illegals are getting smarter. They get rid of their identity papers, they burn their fingerprints, they erase all trace of where they truly come from, so long as they can get themselves classified as "refugees" or asylum seekers, they're gold.
Yes, seeing a boatload of dead people is horrific, discovering a truckload of people, women and children too, is unimaginable. But most of them could have stayed at Hungary, rather than risk smuggling to the best country in Europe, arguably with the best performing economy, welfare and all. True refugees would have waited for their chance to return home; whichever way I look at it, most of those in news reports do not fit this bill.
Yes, seeing a boatload of dead people is horrific, discovering a truckload of people, women and children too, is unimaginable. But most of them could have stayed at Hungary, rather than risk smuggling to the best country in Europe, arguably with the best performing economy, welfare and all. True refugees would have waited for their chance to return home; whichever way I look at it, most of those in news reports do not fit this bill.
40
I ignored the silly comments about burning fingerprints and tearing travel documents. That sounds like the usual anti-immigrant rant.
"most of them could have stayed at Hungary, rather than risk smuggling to the best country in Europe"
Austria was not the final destination of the people who died on the refrigerated truck, and they were not migrants as you'll see when the Austrian or joint EU report comes out this week. You cannot treat War refugees like self-choosing illegal migrants. The NY Times sure likes to open the flood gates for the lunatic anti-anything crowd.
"most of them could have stayed at Hungary, rather than risk smuggling to the best country in Europe"
Austria was not the final destination of the people who died on the refrigerated truck, and they were not migrants as you'll see when the Austrian or joint EU report comes out this week. You cannot treat War refugees like self-choosing illegal migrants. The NY Times sure likes to open the flood gates for the lunatic anti-anything crowd.
5
@ tiddle See "The Invasion of America: Indians, Colonialism and the Cant of Conquest" by Frances Jennings a history told from the perspective of the Native Americans regarding the white European "immigrants", "migrants" and "refugees" who arrived unannounced on their shores.
My white European American roots begin in 1640 in the Virginia colony. My black free-person of color roots start in Virginia and South Carolina go back to 1790. My black slave roots start in Georgia in 1835. My brown Native American forbearers go back about 12,000 years ago before arriving in Georgia and South Carolina in 1835.
When, from where, to where and how did your ancestors arrive in North America?
My white European American roots begin in 1640 in the Virginia colony. My black free-person of color roots start in Virginia and South Carolina go back to 1790. My black slave roots start in Georgia in 1835. My brown Native American forbearers go back about 12,000 years ago before arriving in Georgia and South Carolina in 1835.
When, from where, to where and how did your ancestors arrive in North America?
1
Under the Schengen Accords, member countries always had the right to inspect travel documents of suspect travelers coming from one member country to another. In the European dreamworld, this was never invoked because the theory was that inter-country travel would simply consist of Dutch citizens traveling to Germany, or French citizens traveling to Italy. Those days are over. And Frontex is as useless as the U.N.
38
Right before this crisis, it was a fashionable idea. As with all other fashionable ideas, it was celebrated but not examined.
1
Notice how the Times is moving from describing the illegal immigrants as "migrants" to "refugees." The Times has made clear its editorial position that any person anywhere has the "right" to move to any Western nation of their choosing, that these new arrivals must be catered to at any expense necessary, and hat those living in the host countries who question or disagree with the new order are racist and xenophobic. Interestingly, these labels are only applied to Europeans and others in the West who wish to limit the flood of illegal immigrants into their nations, but are never used to describe nations like Japan or Mexico which have strict immigration laws. Wonder why that is?
166
Indeed I share your feelings. There are times when I read NYT and the one-sided very left-leaning coverage makes me quite angry. Instead of opening up the topic for discussions (of how to stem the uncontrollable influx), any attempts to question is automatically labeled as xenophobia or bigotry. For crying out loud, I was once an immigrant myself, but there's a process we all follow and go through. We assimilate and we embrace the new culture. I don't see any of these happening with so many muslim migrants (legals and illegals alike), and I must say I hate to see the entitlement mentality of how some people *demands* their rights once they're in a western country, when they would never even raise their voice in their own country, or in countries like Saudi Arabia, or China, or Russia, for example. In a way, just keeping on giving (and satisfying them) is never going to be enough.
84
Isn't that pretty much what Europeans did? Move to and colonize any country they felt like they wanted to? Don't forget history - otherwise, you're bound to repeat it!
2
Using the term "illegal migrants" would distort the existence of war tragedy victims. Most, if not all, of the 71 men, women, and children who died in the refrigerated Hungarian truck are likely war refugees from Syria and Iraq. They fall under the 1951 Refugee Convention (a United Nations multilateral treaty) Why is it so easy for you, without evidence, to lump war refugees with illegal migrants?
3
"Last Tuesday, Germany’s office for migration and refugees issued new guidelines for handling asylum applications from Syrians, stating that officials would “effectively no longer enforce” the Dublin Regulation, which establishes the criteria for such cases."
Something must have changed since then, or those "officials" should check with the boss first..
Just a few hours ago I was on Skype, talking to a friend in Europe.
As we were talking she had the TV on. The channel showed Ms. Angela Merkel, who was saying that they would enforce the Dublin Regulation.
Something must have changed since then, or those "officials" should check with the boss first..
Just a few hours ago I was on Skype, talking to a friend in Europe.
As we were talking she had the TV on. The channel showed Ms. Angela Merkel, who was saying that they would enforce the Dublin Regulation.
8
Like so many you mix something up.
The dublin regulation does not apply on syrians in germany anymore,
but still you need visas.
So all the syrians have to do is to come to germany somehow, even illegal.
Once they are in germany, their illegal entry will have no backlash.
The dublin regulation does not apply on syrians in germany anymore,
but still you need visas.
So all the syrians have to do is to come to germany somehow, even illegal.
Once they are in germany, their illegal entry will have no backlash.
Most of them are men only, economic migrants, lets build a wall before everyone from south america tries to jump into our country at the first signs of reccession
1