Time Square has always had a Big Top quality to it. It is like the main fare at the largest carnival on the planet. The sights range from PG to R. The roar comes from the human race seeing its diversity in the fullest. It should not be paved over with the blare of cab horns.
Aggressive panhandlers are annoying, to say the least, particularly when they pass themselves off as "street artists." If you have something on your mind, they are easily confused with a pickpocket.
More importantly, for me: I don't want my granddaughters growing up thinking that this is how women earn a living.
Times Square got rid of the peep shows. My daughters got great educations and now have very good jobs where they progress because of their minds, not by selling bodies. They don't beg. They work.
I see the desnudas as a huge step backward.
More importantly, for me: I don't want my granddaughters growing up thinking that this is how women earn a living.
Times Square got rid of the peep shows. My daughters got great educations and now have very good jobs where they progress because of their minds, not by selling bodies. They don't beg. They work.
I see the desnudas as a huge step backward.
2
Unfortunately, Times Square is now like a third world city, one that desperately depends upon tourists rather than residents for its revenue. The extreme LED signs add to the great confusion of anyone unfortunate enough to be down there. Just getting through the crowds is a challenge for most New Yorkers. It was once a gateway to the theater or another events, now it is a destination for gawkers, crowds of people who treat the area like a circus freak show. The mall should be filled with real entertainment from museums to activities for children to quality food. We have enough entrepreneurs and restauranteurs to "fix" the problem if there is honest, careful supervision by the city. Like it or not Times Square is a landmark and should be treated with care and respect.
2
On the one hand the writers say "The plaza program has made New York a leader in the international movement to make cities more people-friendly." On the other hand they celebrate the "rising values of retail space." For the vast majority of us, there is nothing remotely "people-friendly" about that.
The key to the attraction of Times Square, in my opinion, is changing what attracts everyone there. All those neon signs are ugly. No two ways about it. The signs worked when they were ordinary billboards. Not anymore. Use all that billboard space for something attractive and you change gaudy to pleasant.
1
Couldn't you start by busting all the panhandlers wearing costumes which should require a license from Disney, etc.? This is clearly illegal although maybe Disney and the like have to make a complaint; I'm not a lawyer. If I still had young kids, I wouldn't let them near those guys.
As for the nudity, wait till one of these women paints herself to resemble Wonder Woman; then you can bust her (so to speak).
As for the nudity, wait till one of these women paints herself to resemble Wonder Woman; then you can bust her (so to speak).
1
So happy to see an alternative to shutting down what could be a wonderful experience for all of us who love our city. The examples of how other major cities handled the same issues could be a blueprint for the manner in which the mayor chooses to correct the present abuses of free space. It could, and should, be just one more reason to proclaim "I LOVE N.Y."
1
I liked the old Times Square, three-card monte hustle and all. It kept the tourists away from my city.
Regulation, auditions...,sounds good!
Where do I sign up as a inspector, to approve these new displays before they are unleashed on the public commons?
Where do I sign up as a inspector, to approve these new displays before they are unleashed on the public commons?
If the Wall Streeters can have nekkid shorts the ladies can have nekkid tatas.
I've been to beaches in France and I can imagine what "Paris Plages" look like. To me, it's all good.
But, I'm concerned today's anti-topless crusaders would have one more argument.
But, I'm concerned today's anti-topless crusaders would have one more argument.
New Orleans, Bourbon Street, top less women, beads.
Everyone just take a deep breath and relax.
Everyone just take a deep breath and relax.
Meaning: adopt my superior values.
I guess the mayor must decide which motto belongs to New York:
1) leave the kids home, enjoy watching the freak show and we won't tell, or
2) bring the family and enjoy the sites and take in a show.
You can have topless women, strip clubs, hookers, crazy clubs, pan handlers, vagrants and all that, but you won't have the families or family tourists. Las Vegas decided that "what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas", but no one in their right mind would bring their families to Vegas.
Having recently been in the Big Apple, I would not describe it as "wholesome". Close Disney and open up whatever vice you want. Why not marijuana stores?
1) leave the kids home, enjoy watching the freak show and we won't tell, or
2) bring the family and enjoy the sites and take in a show.
You can have topless women, strip clubs, hookers, crazy clubs, pan handlers, vagrants and all that, but you won't have the families or family tourists. Las Vegas decided that "what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas", but no one in their right mind would bring their families to Vegas.
Having recently been in the Big Apple, I would not describe it as "wholesome". Close Disney and open up whatever vice you want. Why not marijuana stores?
As Shakespeare might have observed,
It will be the Winter of De Blasio's fond content. As for where the NY Post reporters will earn their extra bucks. That's up to their ingenuity
Maybe Vladamir Putin will ride shirtless on a horse in Times Square this Winter if the PPB ducks below $35.
It will be the Winter of De Blasio's fond content. As for where the NY Post reporters will earn their extra bucks. That's up to their ingenuity
Maybe Vladamir Putin will ride shirtless on a horse in Times Square this Winter if the PPB ducks below $35.
My 17 year old daughter and I returned home from a college visit in NYC last Saturday. We stayed just blocks from Times Square and visited it at least half a dozen times during the four days we were in the City. NYC should be proud of what they have done with the square. Both of us found it a safe, friendly, wonderful place to watch people and listen to languages from though out the world. The street performers were present, but not at all intrusive or offensive. Even the much discussed ladies in paint were simply non issues, to both my daughter and I. They were hardly offensive as they wore so much paint you had to do a double take to realize they were topless. And I never once saw one inappropriately approach anyone.
Thank you NYC for a great visit. Although your traffic really does suck and you should outlaw automobile horns!
Thank you NYC for a great visit. Although your traffic really does suck and you should outlaw automobile horns!
Times Square? - nobody goes there anymore - it's too crowded.
1
As an Australian I've been to Times Square in 1983 when it was seedy and grimy, 1997 when it was just ugly, and 2010 soon after the changes.
What a transformation ! From dirty traffic artery, to broad colourful expanse of bright lights thronging with happy pedestrians and free chairs to move and sit where you like - and a grandstand to climb and sit and enjoy an elevated view of the hubbub - wonderful stuff !
So - if it's now crowded with half a million people a day, is that a fail ? I think not - it's crowded because the world loves it and everyone wants to come there !
puritans offended by nudity - come on folks - join the 21st Century - I thought we left 'sex and nudity is evil' back in the 1950s - or are some still living there ?
What a transformation ! From dirty traffic artery, to broad colourful expanse of bright lights thronging with happy pedestrians and free chairs to move and sit where you like - and a grandstand to climb and sit and enjoy an elevated view of the hubbub - wonderful stuff !
So - if it's now crowded with half a million people a day, is that a fail ? I think not - it's crowded because the world loves it and everyone wants to come there !
puritans offended by nudity - come on folks - join the 21st Century - I thought we left 'sex and nudity is evil' back in the 1950s - or are some still living there ?
The highly philosophical and sociological level of discussion in this article is interesting and amusing. As far as the problem of New York, plagued by many societal woes other than panhandling, the panhandlers can be carted away and made to do some useful work, such as picking up litter and sweeping the streets.
I'm guessing you're not a Constitutional scholar.
1
To: IMO
Your are absolutely right. My comment was intended "pour épater le bourgeois pharisien".
Your are absolutely right. My comment was intended "pour épater le bourgeois pharisien".
Yuk, what a downer for your vacation, or your lunch hour. People should just stay away, vote with their feet and their wallets, until this mess gets cleaned up. I like street musicians, but panhandlers and nudies ought to be prohibited. Let these lazy crazies go get themselves some real jobs.
hmmmm...have them licensed. That sounds good. Oh yeah, if they don't have a license ya still can't punish them cause bad things could then evolve.
Why do such a few topless women scare so many people? Really? Yes, Times Square is filled with cartoon characters, all trying to make a buck, and in some instances they go too far in trying to get paid, but the ladies rarely threaten violence. I say if you don't wish to see them walk the other way. But last time I looked most men liked the sight, and most women had their own. So what's to complain? Surely there are bigger issues for the Mayor to solve.
I honestly don't know WHY in the world anyone -- tourist or local -- would have the slightest interest in going to Times Square. Except maybe to take a selfie and check off the place on your been there, done that" itinerary if you're a tourist. WHAT'S the attraction? Honestly?
No matter what they try, Times Square will never be anything like a promenade of any sort along the Seine!
"Another imaginative example of how city space can be transformed is the “Paris Plages” project in France. Promenades along the Seine are turned into beaches with tons of sand and palm trees"
No matter what they try, Times Square will never be anything like a promenade of any sort along the Seine!
"Another imaginative example of how city space can be transformed is the “Paris Plages” project in France. Promenades along the Seine are turned into beaches with tons of sand and palm trees"
1
"Times Square is now such a bustling place, walked by up to 480,000 people — tourists and locals — every day. "
As a native New Yorker, I don't know any other native new yorker who willfully go to Times Square. It's such a disneyfied light polluting tourist trap and bottleneck, that you'd have to have a patience of a saint to take a stroll through it, especially in the hot and humid weather that accentuates our city's eau de garbage. As much as we all appreciate the decline in crime, most of us would rather have a functional city we can actually WALK through. What reason is there for fast food and mass retail stores to have blinged out marquee lights and ginormous digital billboards other than to appeal to the lowest common demoninator of tasteless and uncultured tourists waving mindlessly at a jumbotron for a chance to be in a selfie regurgitated back at them? NYC doesn't need a Walmart, we already have Times Square.
As a native New Yorker, I don't know any other native new yorker who willfully go to Times Square. It's such a disneyfied light polluting tourist trap and bottleneck, that you'd have to have a patience of a saint to take a stroll through it, especially in the hot and humid weather that accentuates our city's eau de garbage. As much as we all appreciate the decline in crime, most of us would rather have a functional city we can actually WALK through. What reason is there for fast food and mass retail stores to have blinged out marquee lights and ginormous digital billboards other than to appeal to the lowest common demoninator of tasteless and uncultured tourists waving mindlessly at a jumbotron for a chance to be in a selfie regurgitated back at them? NYC doesn't need a Walmart, we already have Times Square.
2
Laws against imposing harm make sense, because harm is less subjective than the offense of sensibilities (unless of course, if taking offense is the the reason for the complaint of harm). While it could be inappropriate and offensive, being offended by nudity is subjective.
Shake down artists intimidating tourists for money - this harm is less subjective, and should be actionable by the authorities.
If it's not already the case, there should be signs and ordinances that make it clear that there should be no fee charged for picture taking for noncommercial, tourist purposes in a public square. Any character insisting on a fee should be given a citation, and removed from the square.
Anonymously masked shakedown artists should have to wear identification as well; there is far greater opportunity/temptation for a person of malicious intent to create harm hiding behind a mask and wearing a baggy costume, than being nude.
If children are exposed to nudity, it is harder to understand the rationale of offense from exposure to female breasts than male nudity, since from an early age, children as babies are exposed to their mother's breast.
Shake down artists intimidating tourists for money - this harm is less subjective, and should be actionable by the authorities.
If it's not already the case, there should be signs and ordinances that make it clear that there should be no fee charged for picture taking for noncommercial, tourist purposes in a public square. Any character insisting on a fee should be given a citation, and removed from the square.
Anonymously masked shakedown artists should have to wear identification as well; there is far greater opportunity/temptation for a person of malicious intent to create harm hiding behind a mask and wearing a baggy costume, than being nude.
If children are exposed to nudity, it is harder to understand the rationale of offense from exposure to female breasts than male nudity, since from an early age, children as babies are exposed to their mother's breast.
I’ve enjoyed the streets of NY for 70 years, some years more than others. Recently, It’s been wonderful to be able to walk all over town. I’d like the pedestrian walks to expand as I consider retirement. I remember what a joy it was growing up in the Bronx to walk everywhere and take the subway when needed. Cars were and are too cumbersome and dangerous for cities. Cars are essential for our quality of life, but they shouldn’t dominate it.
I encourage Mayor de Blasio to accept the detailed advice offered in this article, and combined with his own penchant for trying to provide for the people in the city, he should be able to come up with a way to improve the current situation. The pedestrianization of Times Square was not only the flagship to the NYC Plaza program, but it sparked many other innovations throughout the city that we all can enjoy. Not to mention what a boon it has been to the business community and NYC's improved reputation with tourists from around the world. He shouldn't be too proud to embrace this program created by former Mayor Bloomberg.
I encourage Mayor de Blasio to accept the detailed advice offered in this article, and combined with his own penchant for trying to provide for the people in the city, he should be able to come up with a way to improve the current situation. The pedestrianization of Times Square was not only the flagship to the NYC Plaza program, but it sparked many other innovations throughout the city that we all can enjoy. Not to mention what a boon it has been to the business community and NYC's improved reputation with tourists from around the world. He shouldn't be too proud to embrace this program created by former Mayor Bloomberg.
2
The pedestrian plazas are a mess of panhandlers and tourists. And they have been designed to make traffic flow unbearable. Stop giving us solutions (bad pedestrian plazas, bike lanes, traffic "calming" and other stupid ideas that do nothing but insanely slow down and reroute traffic and provide income for the city from writing tickets) from cities with 1/10 the population and different weather and culture. Copenhagen has almost 2 Million inhabitants in its metro area, while the NYC metro area is over 20 million.
The panhandlers in Times Sq., like the homeless problem, is a problem that has gotten away from this Mayor. He is UNABLE to do even the most basic functions of running the city.
Let's stick to the basics in traffic, policing and other things so that Mr. DeBlasio could maybe, just maybe, be able to handle the demands of his job. Stop introducing or supporting policies that aren't suitable for the NYC metro area. We just might be able to save our city from smug obnoxiousness of the current administration and his enablers.
The panhandlers in Times Sq., like the homeless problem, is a problem that has gotten away from this Mayor. He is UNABLE to do even the most basic functions of running the city.
Let's stick to the basics in traffic, policing and other things so that Mr. DeBlasio could maybe, just maybe, be able to handle the demands of his job. Stop introducing or supporting policies that aren't suitable for the NYC metro area. We just might be able to save our city from smug obnoxiousness of the current administration and his enablers.
2
Honestly, I am much more annoyed and offended by the fake Monks who seem to be absolutely everywhere. At least the topless women are providing a service that some people want. And I have never really understood why people are offended by nudity, even this pseudo sexualized version.
4
I'd like to go on record as being in full support of nudity.
3
Obviously, you don't have in children in tow or salivate with prurient desires, especially since ogling doesn't cost money whereas physical cavorting with the desnudas would cost you a generous "tip" for the fleeting pleasure of their company. No wonder this country's moral values are fast being flushed down the toilet.
1
Dismantling the pedestrian plaza in Times Square is an idiotic idea.
2
That illuminated the debate. We are in your debt.
It is common knowledge that Europe is very liberal about nudity/public sex, but there is a level of respect for those around you that seems to be missing in this picture. Having lived in Europe the past 17 years, I can assure you that there are not topless or spray-painted women running around in the city centers/squares. Public nudity is illegal in most european countries due to the fact the there are children and minors in the area, and the government cannot regulate that. Entertainment acts of any kind require a legal permit, and the performers are fined large sums of money without one. It is important that the acts are decent (especially in a bustling place like Times Square, "where 480,000 people — tourists and locals — walk daily"). I am not saying that nudity is wrong, but it is not appropriate in one of the world's busiest pedestrian intersections. Perhaps Vienese are less concerned about nudity in general, but they have a sense of propriety and appropriateness. There is a respect for the many others who may not share their same opinion. What might be fine on the Danube Island, would not be acceptable in the setting of the downtown pedestrian streets.
4
it's theater .... i am more grieved by the plethora of junk food for sale ''' actually I find times square fun.......
The city is out of control with shows, parks, events, and fairs. Enough! We who live here want none of this. We have the greatest museums in the world and they now belong to tourists. Art is about as generic a term as q-tips. Let me remind you, non eof the people performing and that's really being generous, live in the city and none of the tourists obviously do not live here. It's a heachache and a cheesy affront at that to have to live amongst this chaos all in the name a few tour bus companies who probably grease the pockets of city officials. They do business from city sidewalks! Is this legal? Let;s not even mention the lack of great food that the city has fallen into. Food designed for tourists. It's gross. The street fairs are appalling and then the parades. I say abolish all of that stuff. Let's get back to being a working city, not a tourists park.
9
Amen!
In case one hasn't noticed, Times Square is more gridlocked than ever; cabs, black cars and tour buses with mobs of tourists crossing against the lights, Took a cab to a theater last week and it took almost a to get from 57th street to two blocks away from the theater, which was as close as we could get. I've lived in and around Manhattan my whole life and I dread having to go to that part of the city. It's not for New Yorkers any more.
4
I'm as confused as a hungry baby in a Hooters restaurant!
Honestly, who cares? This is a silly-season problem. These folks will go indoors or wear more clothing come October. It would be a shame to overreact to every silly-season trend. If the mayor does overreact every time, pretty soon the M&M store will have to sell out to Amish Clothiers.
Honestly, who cares? This is a silly-season problem. These folks will go indoors or wear more clothing come October. It would be a shame to overreact to every silly-season trend. If the mayor does overreact every time, pretty soon the M&M store will have to sell out to Amish Clothiers.
1
The toplessness of desnudas is not the issue. It is aggressive panhandling that is the problem. Times Square is used by too many people to have an area for "performers" whose only talents are hustling tourists and blocking sidewalk traffic. This is a problem in Vegas too where they have even more room for it.
Tourists do not like to have beggars accost them for money. From some of the comments they want nothing less than $20. They also pile on when one poses for a photo, many push into the picture too and also want $20. It must be frightening to be surrounded by many aggressive panhandlers at once. I would be afraid to take out my wallet for fear of having it snatched by someone in disguise.
New York City needs to crack down on this crime. Harassing people for money is against the law. I don't care how they are dressed. Personally I think they should be banned, but of course they are supposed to have rights too. They should be licensed and made to stand in one spot for their whole shift. The city could paint five small circles spread around Times Square and have these "performers" stand in their circle, assigned on a rotating basis. They should have to display the price they charge for a photo. If they disobey the rules they should be arrested and have their license revoked. This is not a first amendment issue. If anyone's rights are being violated it's those of the tourists who shouldn't be harassed by what are essentially thugs masquerading as performers.
Tourists do not like to have beggars accost them for money. From some of the comments they want nothing less than $20. They also pile on when one poses for a photo, many push into the picture too and also want $20. It must be frightening to be surrounded by many aggressive panhandlers at once. I would be afraid to take out my wallet for fear of having it snatched by someone in disguise.
New York City needs to crack down on this crime. Harassing people for money is against the law. I don't care how they are dressed. Personally I think they should be banned, but of course they are supposed to have rights too. They should be licensed and made to stand in one spot for their whole shift. The city could paint five small circles spread around Times Square and have these "performers" stand in their circle, assigned on a rotating basis. They should have to display the price they charge for a photo. If they disobey the rules they should be arrested and have their license revoked. This is not a first amendment issue. If anyone's rights are being violated it's those of the tourists who shouldn't be harassed by what are essentially thugs masquerading as performers.
18
Men can never think clearly when it comes to women baring their breasts. Grow up.
4
I am a 60+ year-old woman and not one who often cries sexism, but I can't help observing that the "naked cowboy", standing there in his underwear and very little else, has been a fixture for years, with nary a peep out of anybody as far as I know. But God forbid we show a few breasts, and suddenly we're on the road to hell.
6
30 plus years ago, Times Square had live sex shows on every corner. Much like the Red Light district in Amsterdam, it added to the shock value and the "I otherness" that made NYC different from other cities in the U.S. Unless I was of a bent to watch two " performers" engaging in actual sexual acts, I went to the Statue of Liberty instead.
As others have stated, this is a panhandling issue and not an " artistic merit" argument, and should be dealt with as such.
As others have stated, this is a panhandling issue and not an " artistic merit" argument, and should be dealt with as such.
2
a few female breasts and the Mayor is in panic mode. I guess if it were guns, Americans would be ok with that.
5
This brouhaha over the Times Square women is patently absurd. I have passed this section of Times Square several times it while purchasing tickets for Broadway show and afterwards, and there have been, at most, 3-5 women, who are "topless." But the reality is that the women are covered with so much paint that all that can be detected is the outline of their bodies. In other words, there is essentially nothing more revealing than what you see if a woman wears a bikini. It is, therefor, a tempest in a teapot, and it's ludicrous how much play it is getting.
2
Bill DB is starting to resemble Koch & Guliani at their shoot-from-the-lip worst. He's surely mindful of how disappointing he's been to most of his supporters; hardly a day passes without some evidence of his "empty suit" ed ness, even if he seldom wears a suit.
But I think it's the proverbial "stopped clock" moment for BDB (no doubt suggested by a savvy PR guy or gal) - only the ACLU and a benighted court or 2 (the variety that Republicans have ridden to near parity ridiculing) equates going topless with freedom of speech. It's right up there in absurdity with other courts prohibiting Congress from setting any limits on corporate spending on candidates.
Fortuinately - just this once - government has always been creative in "discouraging" activities that 90%+ of those governed wish were outlawed.
That's what's got to be done here. Too bad they can't deal with it the way bars couldn't be X number of feet from a school (was it 1000 feet ?), since there aren't a heckofalot of schools near Times Square. But licensing, as the author suggests, would be an obvious place to start. And if you prevented people with criminal records - drugs and prostitution in particular - from getting such licenses, I'll bet there'd be way fewer trashy beggars in the area.
But recognize this - the naked cowboy and his "imitators" and "Mario" are like Donald Trump. They'll always outnumber strolling violinists. (But only an imbecile would think bringing back cars was a step in the right direction.)
But I think it's the proverbial "stopped clock" moment for BDB (no doubt suggested by a savvy PR guy or gal) - only the ACLU and a benighted court or 2 (the variety that Republicans have ridden to near parity ridiculing) equates going topless with freedom of speech. It's right up there in absurdity with other courts prohibiting Congress from setting any limits on corporate spending on candidates.
Fortuinately - just this once - government has always been creative in "discouraging" activities that 90%+ of those governed wish were outlawed.
That's what's got to be done here. Too bad they can't deal with it the way bars couldn't be X number of feet from a school (was it 1000 feet ?), since there aren't a heckofalot of schools near Times Square. But licensing, as the author suggests, would be an obvious place to start. And if you prevented people with criminal records - drugs and prostitution in particular - from getting such licenses, I'll bet there'd be way fewer trashy beggars in the area.
But recognize this - the naked cowboy and his "imitators" and "Mario" are like Donald Trump. They'll always outnumber strolling violinists. (But only an imbecile would think bringing back cars was a step in the right direction.)
Turning Times Square into a tourist driven pedestrian mall was a great idea. However, just plopping down a bunch of tables and chairs and then allowing the area to be overrun with a variety of seedy characters has completely negated the entire purpose of creating the mall in the 1st place.
With all of the talent here in NYC why can't the City use this as an opportunity to attract and license those extraordinary people who can entertain and use their talents & skills to improve the quality of life here in the City.
It is ashamed to see such a golden opportunity go to waste.
With all of the talent here in NYC why can't the City use this as an opportunity to attract and license those extraordinary people who can entertain and use their talents & skills to improve the quality of life here in the City.
It is ashamed to see such a golden opportunity go to waste.
1
Times Square is the best.
New Yorkers know not to ever go there and, according to the article, the mind-boggling attraction of the area keeps 480,000 tourists out of our way each day.
It should be made even more ridiculous to pull in more tourists and keep them away from the actual city.
New Yorkers know not to ever go there and, according to the article, the mind-boggling attraction of the area keeps 480,000 tourists out of our way each day.
It should be made even more ridiculous to pull in more tourists and keep them away from the actual city.
3
Not for publication, but the last time an article appeared on this topic I mentioned that whether or not these people's rights were protected by law, they were making Times Square a vulgar representation of NYC. Of course, my comment was deemed inappropriate. Now this article. Looks like I may have been right. You guys should worry less about appropriateness and PC and more about truth.
3
The desnudas have nothing to do with the argument of whether or not the plaza in Times Square is at all beneficial, so it's past time to drop that red herring. And it's beyond me why an architectural firm that sits in Copenhagen - a city with little more than 1 million people - was ever entrusted with resolving urban issues in New York City. But the entire plan of "rebuilding" Times Square was comletely lacking in vision from the get-go. Forty-second Street is a horror of chain stores, chain restaurants, tour buses, and tourists who think Times Square is the "real" New York. The pedestrian plazas are ugly blocks of concrete that have forced traffic into the rapidly growing residential sections of the neighborhood, endangering everyone who lives there.
The "pedestrianization" of Times Square has made it impossible to walk in the neighborhood, whose streets are now choking with foot traffic, bike traffic, car traffic, truck traffic, and bus traffic, each of which ignores and tramples the other in an attempt to simply reach one's destination. This is not a measure of success. It is the result of poor vision.
The "pedestrianization" of Times Square has made it impossible to walk in the neighborhood, whose streets are now choking with foot traffic, bike traffic, car traffic, truck traffic, and bus traffic, each of which ignores and tramples the other in an attempt to simply reach one's destination. This is not a measure of success. It is the result of poor vision.
6
No, not a red herring. It was kind of a new low. That's why the renewed debate.
Rip it up and put the road back in. As an experiment it has failed. It has become cheap and tawdry and an eyesore, not to mention causing traffic problems all throughout midtown.
5
I'm an urban curmudgeon right wing extremist, delighting in the contradictions of the Left: bare breasted women selling group 'selfies' in tourist-town ie Times Square ( which is not a square but NYers? I am not so sure)
I am nostalgic for the pre Giuliani raunch of The Deuce, even while respecting that Mr G's 'clean-up' has increased property values and pays for services that I use, thanks Rudy
the 'clean-up' created many 1A issues, where zoning, sacre blue, trumped (oops) 1A for such display and many micro-managed lawsuits and administrative regulations, ah Big Guv
as an aside, bare-breasted (unclothed) women are lawful and have been so for some time, certainly during mayor Mike's time, but only a problem under Mayor DB (of whom we conservos are NOT a fan) hmm, i see a moral there, not sure what, and now the 'cure' is to ban plazas and bring back cars, oh dear greeniacs (green maniacs) to the fore
ONE SOLUTION, is to ban bare chests for men and women both!!
(although peek-a-boo cutouts might satisfy the no-bare-pecs rule even so)
AS AN ASIDE, in my our curmudgeon form, I used to go to Central Park, Manhattan, where 'chair massage' people privatized public space for commercial activity and I was unable to mobilize the muni bureaucracy to return the park to commerce-free quiet use and enjoyment
ah 1A, who needs it
Righteous euro trash of course sneer
'free the nip'
where is Miley when we need her?
I am nostalgic for the pre Giuliani raunch of The Deuce, even while respecting that Mr G's 'clean-up' has increased property values and pays for services that I use, thanks Rudy
the 'clean-up' created many 1A issues, where zoning, sacre blue, trumped (oops) 1A for such display and many micro-managed lawsuits and administrative regulations, ah Big Guv
as an aside, bare-breasted (unclothed) women are lawful and have been so for some time, certainly during mayor Mike's time, but only a problem under Mayor DB (of whom we conservos are NOT a fan) hmm, i see a moral there, not sure what, and now the 'cure' is to ban plazas and bring back cars, oh dear greeniacs (green maniacs) to the fore
ONE SOLUTION, is to ban bare chests for men and women both!!
(although peek-a-boo cutouts might satisfy the no-bare-pecs rule even so)
AS AN ASIDE, in my our curmudgeon form, I used to go to Central Park, Manhattan, where 'chair massage' people privatized public space for commercial activity and I was unable to mobilize the muni bureaucracy to return the park to commerce-free quiet use and enjoyment
ah 1A, who needs it
Righteous euro trash of course sneer
'free the nip'
where is Miley when we need her?
Can we do something about the growing homeless population instead (I can't go two blocks in Manhattan without seeing a homeless person), because that seems like the more pressing issue for tourism than a pair of painted nipples and an off-brand Elmo. This level of homelessness is unsightly, it makes tourists feel unsafe (not to say that being homeless contributes to criminal activity) and these people need a place to go. All in all THIS seems like the bigger issue.
Also NYC isn't Disney Land, it is a bit gritty, and a bit dirty, and that's the whole appeal. If people wanted Disney, they would go there, but instead they opt for The Naked Cowboy, off brand Mickey and yes, sometimes topless, painted, women. This is really all part of the charm.
Furthermore I find it incredibly suspect that no-one was talking about panhandling until a few women decided to remove their shirts and do it that way (and now suddenly it is a problem). The Naked Cowboy shows his nipples, and it's all family fun, but a couple ladies do it and everybody looses their minds. I still fail to understand how my boyfriends nipples are a-okay to show, but as a woman, mine are indecent.
Also NYC isn't Disney Land, it is a bit gritty, and a bit dirty, and that's the whole appeal. If people wanted Disney, they would go there, but instead they opt for The Naked Cowboy, off brand Mickey and yes, sometimes topless, painted, women. This is really all part of the charm.
Furthermore I find it incredibly suspect that no-one was talking about panhandling until a few women decided to remove their shirts and do it that way (and now suddenly it is a problem). The Naked Cowboy shows his nipples, and it's all family fun, but a couple ladies do it and everybody looses their minds. I still fail to understand how my boyfriends nipples are a-okay to show, but as a woman, mine are indecent.
6
Did you know that back in the 1960s it was Times Square that inspired British songwriter Tony Hatch (who now lives in Australia) to write the perennial pop hit "Downtown"?
He had flown into Idewild (now JFK), took a bus to Times Square, hadn't slept all night, stepped off the bus and was entranced and charmed by the swirl of color and life all around him. Before he finally did get to bed he'd already started writing:
When you're alone and life is making you lonely
you can always go . . . downtown
when you've got worries all the noise and the hurry
seems to help I know . . . downtown
Is it a coincidence that a Brit and three Danes are able to point out the potential and beauty in a setting that we Americans see as overrun with silly cartoon characters, nearly naked and underpants' wearing pushy panhandlers?
Great public spaces never happen by accident -- the Danes are so right that intelligent stewardship is what is needed to transform Times Square into a space that will inspire us again.
I hear that Tony Hatch rarely leaves Australia, but maybe he would make a special visit to sing his song to us at the re-opening of the exhilarating setting that originally sparked it.
He had flown into Idewild (now JFK), took a bus to Times Square, hadn't slept all night, stepped off the bus and was entranced and charmed by the swirl of color and life all around him. Before he finally did get to bed he'd already started writing:
When you're alone and life is making you lonely
you can always go . . . downtown
when you've got worries all the noise and the hurry
seems to help I know . . . downtown
Is it a coincidence that a Brit and three Danes are able to point out the potential and beauty in a setting that we Americans see as overrun with silly cartoon characters, nearly naked and underpants' wearing pushy panhandlers?
Great public spaces never happen by accident -- the Danes are so right that intelligent stewardship is what is needed to transform Times Square into a space that will inspire us again.
I hear that Tony Hatch rarely leaves Australia, but maybe he would make a special visit to sing his song to us at the re-opening of the exhilarating setting that originally sparked it.
2
Leicester Square in London hosts a half price ticket booth and hundreds of copycat hustler businesses living from the flood of tourists and theater goers who flow through the large urban space every day seeking tickets and/or a meal. Its all remarkably adult and there are human statues and other sorts of panhandlers aplenty not to mention the fly by night ticket agencies that line the space many little more than barely legal.
But there is a difference and it is the essence of the place. London is host to 130 legitimate theaters, it is a real theater scene. New York boasts about 80 theaters on and off Broadway, but the ticket booth rarely features more than 15 or 20 shows many of which don't change often. Such an impoverished offering will not attract real theater fans, instead bringing in curiosity seekers and sightseers and the result is the circus that has replaced what might have been a real theater experience in New York. World Class it ain't anyway so who cares if the more entrepreneurial street people make a buck?
But there is a difference and it is the essence of the place. London is host to 130 legitimate theaters, it is a real theater scene. New York boasts about 80 theaters on and off Broadway, but the ticket booth rarely features more than 15 or 20 shows many of which don't change often. Such an impoverished offering will not attract real theater fans, instead bringing in curiosity seekers and sightseers and the result is the circus that has replaced what might have been a real theater experience in New York. World Class it ain't anyway so who cares if the more entrepreneurial street people make a buck?
1
For Pete's sake, get an ordinance together banning this sort of activity in designated spaces ,except in January, get DiBlasio to sign it and get some judge to start handing out 10 days in the clink for first offenders and 30 for repeaters (sentence to be served between June 1 and Oct 1. No incremental costs, no big deal, could start up almost immediately( I disremember the waiting period prior to enforcing new ordinanaces).
1
Winter is on it way. This will solve part of the problem .... at least until spring.
2
Fundamental to the process of gentrification is the marginalization of the have-nots, who, because of rising property values, can no longer afford to live in the area. When the marginalized poor show up on the gentrified streets, they look pathetically out of place.
2
As I passed through Times Square last Friday I was shocked to see the number of semi-naked women "performers" / panhandlers had greatly increased. Walking around in thongs, feathers, topless, it all looked like a Las Vegas brothel. Not least creepy of all was all the men standing around oggling and taking pics on their phones. This is how we welcome tourists and tourist families to Midtown - disgusting, classless, embarrassing. Times Square is not a European semi-nude beach resort.
12
Since a majority of New Yorkers are foreign-born, as I recall, they naturally militate toward public spaces, esp. for "trysting" of an evening, and on nude beaches, where available, by day. Times Square, the crossroads of the world, mashes it all together, to the gawkers' delight. Ed Koch would approve.
The idea of returning cars to what is now the Times Sqyare pedestrian plaza is absolutely horrifying. I guess politicians and bureaucrats really ARE quite simpleminded after all.
7
The semi-naked ladies don't bother me nearly as much as the ones who are dressed as well-known cartoon or children's show characters, but are known for fighting over turf and otherwise behaving quite out of character. I don't understand why they can't be shut down by the companies who own the rights to those characters, and I would think those companies would want to, given that rude and aggressive costumed street performers can harm the characters' reputation and image. If ASCAP can get a judge to make a bar stop playing copyrighted music without permission (and they can, and they do), then Sesame Street, Disney etc. ought to be able to get these clowns (so to speak) off the streets.
15
I find the costumed 'characters' to be a much worse problem than the desnudas. The characters are aggressive and mean-spirited. They demand money and react in a most nasty way to having their photo taken, even from a distance, by someone who is not giving them money. They complain that the payment is not sufficient and sometimes demand more. All this, in front of young children who had idolized that character. Most young children don't even pay attention to the desnudas.
15
Every solution to a problem does not need to be over-reactive. Totally dismantling the Times Plaza is complete over-reaction returning to the chaos of the immediate past. Yes, all that's needed is civic culture inculcated and maintained. Civic boundaries don't need to be taught but is inherent. These desnudas are pushing these boundaries towards indecency and breaking laws. Panhandling is unlawful and aggressive panhandling, more so. Body-painting is graffiti not art and grafitti is punishable by law. And nudity in public, certainly extremely indecent if not unlawful. These people can certainly be rounded up easily and serve jail-time. It may need continued effort to eliminate this nuisance but soon the message will get around about the penalties.When Giuliani cleared the Times Square, it did'nt happen overnight. So Mayor Bill DeBlasio please don't over-react. Let the Plaza stay but rid it of this desnuda nonsense. They just need to be picked up by the NYPD and lead to jail cells for a while.
Vague pie in the sky generalizations out of Copenhagen have no realistic applicability to the very different legal and cultural environment of New York.
Nonetheless, I sense an "ideas tour" of the grand capitals of Europe coming on. Top officials in the DeBlasio administration will soon be gallivanting about the Continent on "fact-finding" missions at taxpayer expense.
Nonetheless, I sense an "ideas tour" of the grand capitals of Europe coming on. Top officials in the DeBlasio administration will soon be gallivanting about the Continent on "fact-finding" missions at taxpayer expense.
3
Years ago when the Copenhagen pedestrian street was still fairly new, I read an article which told about how many Copenhagen residents had fought against it, emphatically proclaiming that "we're not Italy".
One wonders just who benefits from such narrowness of vision.
One wonders just who benefits from such narrowness of vision.
The desnuda operations in Times Square are vulgar and aggressive commercial activity, overseen by male pimp-like figures hovering near the young non-English speaking females. Unlike the other "characters" working the Times Square plaza, these bare-breasted women are not operating independently. Large men watch them like hawks constantly. Are the women even "working" of their own free choice? It's hard to answer that. It's reported that many of them are undocumented aliens – – a very vulnerable population.
For many of us, objection to the desnudas phenomenon has nothing to do with prudery about the female body.
For many of us, objection to the desnudas phenomenon has nothing to do with prudery about the female body.
12
I have no dog in this fight, but it is interesting to watch. But some of the comments from real New Yorkers are entertaining. "Times Square – nobody goes there anymore – it's too crowded."
3
Some of us are old enough to remember when Times Square and its environs were truly sleazy. When streetwalkers occupied every corner and drugs were sold openly and the close hotels were all rented by the half hour. I worked in the building directly facing Times Square and saw an actual naked man make it a whole block up Broadway before being tackled by police. A few nipples shouldn't change things back to the old ways. Make some rules. License buskers and "mascots." But let's not go back to streaming cars and pedestrians who have to take their lives in their hands to cross the street. Times Square is Disneyland now compared to the old days. The mayor and governor need to take a couple of chill pills and not go overboard on what to do about this tourist destination that draws visitors, and their dollars, from all over the world.
3
The naked ladies, like the "cartoon characters," are hustlers, not performers. They are in Times Square not for the sake of art or to perform, but to make a quick buck by aggressively hustling tourists. They should not be permitted to bring Times Square back to what the City worked so hard to get away from. It will be impossible to restrain these hustlers to cordoned off areas with a sign "this way if you want to interact with a naked lady or a cartoon character." The moment the police will stop these hustlers from trespassing into the rest of the plaza, the police will be accused of racism, ethnophobism, anti-performerism, and some judge will let them loose again to hustle people. New York City is not polite and homogeneous Copenhagen. People do not come to Times Square to see "the plaza". Rip it up!
5
Can we just get rid of the poor and be done with it? Isn't that what the people complaining about panhandlers are saying?
1
That's all you can glean from the many complexities here? Not helpful.
Isn't the topless thing a "seasonal" problem? I lived in the city for almost three decades and I'd say maybe four months of the year -- maybe -- are topless friendly.
1
Let's use the word ugly (unattractive, unappealing, unpleasant, hideous, unlovely, unprepossessing, unsightly, horrible, frightful, awful, ghastly, vile, revolting, repellent, repulsive, repugnant; grotesque, disgusting, monstrous, reptilian, misshapen, deformed).
Times square is filled with ugly topless women, an igly topless 'cowboy in briefs, a collection of ugly cartoon characters, all of whom shake down tourists, who pay them out of fear or naivete.
I for one prefer the ugly polluting traffic, which this point would a touch of class to the area.
Times square is filled with ugly topless women, an igly topless 'cowboy in briefs, a collection of ugly cartoon characters, all of whom shake down tourists, who pay them out of fear or naivete.
I for one prefer the ugly polluting traffic, which this point would a touch of class to the area.
6
Public spaces, and Times Square qualifies, are for all people to enjoy; and although Mr. De Blasio has all my support, this latest potential retreat would be a mistake, a form of religious moral dogma to curtail freedom; some humility is in order, admit we don't know exactly what to do; asking new yorkers what they want may be a start. Let us not destroy what makes the city a magnet for culture and, yes, spontaneity and creativity, even if it smacks as a bit vulgar when we are not looking, and forgiving, and taking things in stride. Let us remain elastic, lest we break for not trying.
1
Nonsense. We all well remember the cesspool which was the Port Authority Bus Terminal in the 1970s.80s. Pimps, Prostitutes, drug dealers, porno palaces, and litter everywhere, but at least you could buy an Orange Julius.
It took Mayor Guilianai and his particular brand of mixed legal closure of the porno businesses through zoning , with the will to stay the course in Court, along with aggressive "broken windows" policing, to bring a measure of civility back to the Great White Way. And now, even vegans can congregate there and bad-mouth Rudi and his cops, without being propositioned by smack pushers.
Aggressive policing of panhandlers, even in costume, is better than "more cultural offerings. This is because the people who will pay to attend "more cultural offerings" will only come to the Square when it is safe for their kids and friends.
I know this isn't the popular view, and I'd rather hold hands with the panhandlers and scam artists, and attend with them some more "cultural offerings, but on the other hand, I would not mind seeing them locked up.
It took Mayor Guilianai and his particular brand of mixed legal closure of the porno businesses through zoning , with the will to stay the course in Court, along with aggressive "broken windows" policing, to bring a measure of civility back to the Great White Way. And now, even vegans can congregate there and bad-mouth Rudi and his cops, without being propositioned by smack pushers.
Aggressive policing of panhandlers, even in costume, is better than "more cultural offerings. This is because the people who will pay to attend "more cultural offerings" will only come to the Square when it is safe for their kids and friends.
I know this isn't the popular view, and I'd rather hold hands with the panhandlers and scam artists, and attend with them some more "cultural offerings, but on the other hand, I would not mind seeing them locked up.
1
New York is now designed for 3 groups of people: tourists, rich people, and poor people who entertain / take care of tourists and rich people.
Times Square is a monument to this design.
Times Square is a monument to this design.
13
You hit it on the head. I think that's at the root of why many of us non-prudes are increasingly unsettled by Times Square.
1
Agree. Perhaps Bill de Blasio's largest blind spot seems to be his inability to see New York as a truly global city, and adapt best practices and innovation from around the world. His "inward focus" "this is how we don't things in New York" attitude hurts his effectiveness and the city. There is no reason we can't adopt best practices and improve on them. CitiBike is a great example of a transforming models that along with pedestrian plazas have made city life better.
It's disappointing that the mayor is so unenthusiastic about these transformations, seemingly more for reasons of egos (if it didn't start under my administration it's bad) than good policy. He could be a better mayor if he could pursue his progressive agenda, at the same time as embracing the progressive changes (and now healthy tax base) created by his predecessor.
It's disappointing that the mayor is so unenthusiastic about these transformations, seemingly more for reasons of egos (if it didn't start under my administration it's bad) than good policy. He could be a better mayor if he could pursue his progressive agenda, at the same time as embracing the progressive changes (and now healthy tax base) created by his predecessor.
4
Good Lord...don't tell me that New Yorkers are upset by a few topless women. Just goes to show what a overpuritanized history and too many religious zealots can do with the human body. Just spend a few days in a country where all people go topless, such as most of East Africa a few decades ago, and the awkwardness becomes accceptable. and normal. Clothes are for different climates. Unless. of course, one is Catholic or Muslim where control is everything.
As for panhandlers...that's a problem that occurs all of the USA. I like what Folsom, CA does...bus them to Sacramento, the state capital, where there are services for the homeless and politicians.
As for panhandlers...that's a problem that occurs all of the USA. I like what Folsom, CA does...bus them to Sacramento, the state capital, where there are services for the homeless and politicians.
2
Hi David, De Blasio read your comment and took it to heed. In the next couple of weeks, thousands of buses are arriving at Eugene, Oregon with lots of happy people looking for a long life and great services provided by the taxpayers of Eugene, Oregon. Better start building housing, cooking food, and staffing your welcoming committees.
All my best, a third-generation New Yorker
All my best, a third-generation New Yorker
1
There should be more concrete proposals, rather than rhetoric, in this article.
2
Totally agree. A waste of newsprint.
They look like Las Vegas showgirls as far as I can see? Nothing you can't see on television or in a cabaret. Why the prudery?
As for the panhandling, everyone has a right to live. Being a New Yorker used to entail being "street smart" and knowing how to navigate nuisance and even danger.
Today, young women want oglers turned into criminals and our city officials want to criminalize spontaneity and the ingenuity of the resourceful poor to make a buck....because tourists might complain (but they don't seem to be, for the most part).
New York City was never a 'planned community'. Despite everyone's best efforts to turn it into a suburban theme park, chaos and non-conformity continue to bubble up and those trying to "make a brand new start of it" continue to make their presence known.
Desnudas and ligthly regulated pedestrian plazas, yes. Conformity and uniformity enforced by the police state, no.
As for the panhandling, everyone has a right to live. Being a New Yorker used to entail being "street smart" and knowing how to navigate nuisance and even danger.
Today, young women want oglers turned into criminals and our city officials want to criminalize spontaneity and the ingenuity of the resourceful poor to make a buck....because tourists might complain (but they don't seem to be, for the most part).
New York City was never a 'planned community'. Despite everyone's best efforts to turn it into a suburban theme park, chaos and non-conformity continue to bubble up and those trying to "make a brand new start of it" continue to make their presence known.
Desnudas and ligthly regulated pedestrian plazas, yes. Conformity and uniformity enforced by the police state, no.
1
At least the desnudas don't cover their face like the costumed characters. You would know what to expect in the former case. You don't know what to expect in the latter. I think real licensed characters are a better alternative and would weed out most of the hustlers. Desnudas? let them work at least they're not endangering children or conning naive tourists with a mask.
1
Sadly, Times Square is in NYC, and it is no longer a place of destination for New Yorkers. Those of us who live here treat it as an obstacle course to get through on the way to the theater or to meet a friend at a hotel. It is so crowded with people who have only come to look at the display of signs and say they made it to Times Square that it has lost its function as a place for amusement or relaxation. The miserable outdoor mall, hideously designed, lacking proper plantings and amenities is a disgrace in our great city. Removing traffic is just the start of creating an environment that is people friendly and crowd safe. The naked painted ladies are just a symptom of the bad planning that went into this alleged plaza. Go back to square one and get it right - or else go back to the days when cars and taxis could make use of the streets and convey people to other destinations.
15
I'm sure it is correct that NYC natives tend to avoid Times Square, but the reality is that every city with lots of tourists develops known tourist-trap areas that the locals avoid. In San Francisco, it's Fisherman's Wharf. In LA, it's Hollywood Boulevard. In Savannah, GA, it's River Street. I don't see how that phenomenon is in and of itself a reason to change the use or configuration of Times Square.
Hey, all this really is about is 'control', something the government is always trying to expand. To 'control' the government must be about taking away freedom and liberty. Just leave these ladies alone, the public will provide their own 'control', that being no tips, no business, so they will 'close' up and fade away. Wish government could do the same.
3
I suspect winter will impose a control all its own...
1
Traffic flow has certainly NOT improved on 7th Ave., where all MTA buses, tour buses and cars try to push through traffic lights on a highly congested street. Pedestrians take their lives in their hands trying to cross a street blocked by cars and buses who have run lights. Just try hailing a bus, when all the tour buses are parked at the stops. They either ignore you or you almost get hit by cars when you have to stand out in traffic for a bus to see you. I liked Times Square better before.
10
I have no problem with the concept of topless panhandlers, winter will take care of the issue quite nicely. However, "a sense that somehow the plaza has made Times Square only more sleazy and vulgar than ever."? Did the authors ever walk in Times Square in the 70's? Now that was sleazy and vulgar.
2
Great piece. The one thing that is missing is the listing of the developers or contractors who will benefit from the de-pedestrianization of Times Square. If anything, Deep Throat's mantra of 43 years ago, "..Follow the money..." still applies. DiBlasio is one of the examples of the wrong person, mayor, at wrong place, New York City, at the wrong time. Mayor Bloomberg loved, breathed, and shared all the city has to offer. DiBlasio either does not like New York, or hates New York City so much that he doesn't care if he destroys something that works just because Bloomberg was behind it. It's time that it be recognized that DiBlasio was just as big a mistake as Dinkins was so that that damage can be minmalized until another Mayor comes in.
2
The problem is that not all New Yorkers agree that "it works." There is a lot of legitimate disagreement about Times Square. Even some, Like me, who are not fans of the current mayor don't like what the previous mayor did to Times Square.
A pedestrian Times Sq would be nice if it worked out.
N Y CIty's decision-makers can never know whether it will succeed w/o giving it an honest try.
Therefore, why not announce that N Y City will try a pedestrian Times Sq for 25 years, during which tweaks will be made. Then after 25 years, if a pedestrian Times Square proves unworkable despite all efforts, N Y City could let it return to its old, high-crime, low-culture self.
At the same time, N Y City might try to rid itself of its motor-domination which became the default under planning by the late Robert Moses. More subway capacity coupled with incentives not to own, store, or operate individual, private, cars w/in N Y City would help. No pool ownership either.
N Y CIty's decision-makers can never know whether it will succeed w/o giving it an honest try.
Therefore, why not announce that N Y City will try a pedestrian Times Sq for 25 years, during which tweaks will be made. Then after 25 years, if a pedestrian Times Square proves unworkable despite all efforts, N Y City could let it return to its old, high-crime, low-culture self.
At the same time, N Y City might try to rid itself of its motor-domination which became the default under planning by the late Robert Moses. More subway capacity coupled with incentives not to own, store, or operate individual, private, cars w/in N Y City would help. No pool ownership either.
5
I like the idea of a pedestrian plaza, the complaints seem to be minor inconveniences at the moment compared to what Times Square used to be. What's really sad isn't the pan handlers, it's the fact that so many have to pan handle for survival in America with our razor thin safety net. Maybe we should be more like Copenhagen and provide every American a minimum income say $1000 a month, so they can pay for housing, food, etc. and get rid of the patchwork of failing aid to the poor. $1000 a month is chump change to the wealthy, but will help stabilize the middle class and could be the difference between life or death for the poor.
2
The reason for the potentially offensive presence of the topless women and the downtrodden-looking Buzz Lightyears is not that we enabled it by creating pedestrian plazas in Times Square, but that we have not created nearly enough plazas throughout NYC. The crowding in the plazas at Times Square, Herald Square, etc. indicate a huge pent-up demand for pedestrian space in Manhattan that the new plazas don't even begin to make a dent in. But this has been obvious for decades on the streets of Midtown, where pedestrians are tripping over each other and breathing down each others' necks because they are crammed into skinny sidewalks full of obstacles like food carts, bags of trash, etc. Manhattan is the self-proclaimed walking capitol of America yet approximately 80% of the surface area of each avenue is dedicated to cars and trucks which aggressively intimidate pedestrians at every crosswalk. Most people in this city do not own cars nor have any need for them aside from the occasional taxi ride. We need to democratically reclaim the streets for the people. Make the sidewalks wider and into lovely mini-parks by reducing each avenue by a few vehicular lanes. Reduce traffic by imposing severe congestion pricing. Limit delivery vehicles in Manhattan to not much bigger than a van. Manhattan is one of the very few places on this continent where walking -- our most basic human ability -- could be king, yet we ruin it by designing our avenues to be highways.
11
Respectfully, I could not disagree more. The creation of more such plaza spaces throughout the city would only enable highly commercialized and vulgar tourist magnets to metastasize. At least now the unpleasantness is concentrated in Times Square – – which all New Yorkers know to avoid as much as possible.
Your fantasies for a carless Manhattan are not practical for policy, just like the crackdown on las desnudas is not practical. Both are shortsighted, narcissistic views of what someone would like Manhattan to be, without considering the Constitution, or the needs of all the other people who make up the population of the NYC metro area, and of course, the tourists.
That means you're a great candidate for a job in the DeBlasio administration. Good luck.
That means you're a great candidate for a job in the DeBlasio administration. Good luck.
Just change the NYS topless law and it will be over. If not, just wait for winter, lol.
7
That law can't change. It's a constitutional law principal onto the New York State Constitution as interpreted by our highest court. The legislature alone can't pass along a pending that. An amendment to the state constitution would be required.
I was in Times Square in the winter, and it was cold, and the women were still topless. Mostly, it was sad, because it was more obvious that no one would be doing that who had a warmer way to live.
1
The obvious solution is get rid of tourists. Tourists are a blight on the landscape in their weird colorful clothes and socks under their sandals. They get on buses without change and block the sidewalks (have you tried to to get through Rockefeller Center this Summer?). They coarsen everything.
Other cities are thinking about kiboshing tourism (http://www.cntraveler.com/galleries/2015-06-19/barcelona-bhutan-places-t.... Time we do the same.
Other cities are thinking about kiboshing tourism (http://www.cntraveler.com/galleries/2015-06-19/barcelona-bhutan-places-t.... Time we do the same.
5
And after that, could I please receive a hot fudge banana split each dayby US mail?
Tons of comments weighting in on the appropriateness or lack there of regarding the female nipple painters. Realistically won't this problem be solved by the upcoming change of seasons? Sure it will return again late spring of next year just like the daffodils but so what.
I find the stupid panhandling costumed characters harassing people for tips to be a greater nuisance, another "cultural" invasion from that horrible place Los Angeles or more specifically pitiful Hollywood Blvd.
I find the stupid panhandling costumed characters harassing people for tips to be a greater nuisance, another "cultural" invasion from that horrible place Los Angeles or more specifically pitiful Hollywood Blvd.
6
Times Square is disgusting, but at least we New Yorkers can avoid it for the most part. The key is not to let this kind of thing to spread to other parts of the city.
We know how to control cars? Where ever there is a captive audience, especially tourists, there will be people who will try to separate them from their money. Times Square seems to be suffering from popularity and a story, naked women, perfect for bored tabloid newspapers.
2
Lifelong New Yorker. You can keep Times Square for the tourists. I can't stand it. New York has become Disneyland. Homogenized, lost its soul. Lives on in memory only for me.
11
I guess we in NYC get the 'entertainment' we deserve. All other European cities have amazing plaza life that has grown 'organically' from bottom up for hundreds of years, the plaza being an important locus of social exchanges, with maybe a food market not too far, a city hall, and sure, a police station. I'm concerned now that mayors and governors don't really know what to do with the mess created, because it is a mess: too many retail chains, too many people, low-class entertainers (Naked Cowboy might be to blame for the desnudas)....TS is a metaphor for what American culture creates as its best (?) and worst (all of above)....
As for the desnudas and other entertainers, there should be a regulation not to 'solicit' passersby, as this is very offensive and akin to 'prostitution light'. The ones I've seen are very aggressive.
Let's all be mindful that TS doesn't turn into a modern 'cour des miracles'.
As for the desnudas and other entertainers, there should be a regulation not to 'solicit' passersby, as this is very offensive and akin to 'prostitution light'. The ones I've seen are very aggressive.
Let's all be mindful that TS doesn't turn into a modern 'cour des miracles'.
Let's be honest – – there is at least one big disgusting Times Square style plaza area in every major European city. I think that many countries can regulate more sensibly then we can (having less respect under the law for free-speech), however, reserving some public squares and plazas for pleasant strolling and gathering. And, of course, the squares in smaller European towns and villages are absolutely wonderful places.
This editorial includes some good suggestions, but it's worth noting thatother NY Times articles have mentioned, NY Court rulings that women have a right to go topless and that all have a right to panhandle. Accordingly, the allowable "enforcement" response to topless panhandlers is rather limited: They have a legal right under NY law. So, perhaps the undesirable (in some eyes) contact can be regulated a bit, but it's hard to imagine that it can be eradicated, given the legal rights these individuals have. I have nothing against nudity, but I don't relish the thought of living somewhere where it may "pop up" on the street at any time! So, defining licensed, demarcated areas for street performers of all kinds would be the way to go -- along with, as the writers suggest, assuring a full calendar of publicly supported cultural events as competition for the desnudas, naked cowboys, and such. I don't see that it is "chilling" (as one commenter suggests) to find a line between one person's freedom to engage in topless panhandling and the general public's freedom to walk a public square without being harassed and molested. Ripping up squares and sidewalks is clearly a drastic over-reaction to the issue...
5
I'm suspicious of opinion pieces that require 3 writers to make a point. Especially in pieces like this where the writes provenance ensures being published but not the accuracy of the facts presented. The writers point about pedestrians outnumbering cars in Times Square is presented as if it is unique to Times Square. It is not. The same can be said about almost every arterial intersection in Manhattan. The idea of turning Time Square into a beach is so bad it's laughable. And I'm sure serious curators have better things to do than to curate pedestrian traffic. Let's Keep the public space but let's also lose the elite out-of-touch silly suggestions.
6
How about no shirtless men or women?
And no panhandling?
Times Square is just as bad as it always was...lipstick on a pig.
And no panhandling?
Times Square is just as bad as it always was...lipstick on a pig.
2
Panhandlers need to be removed from the streets of NYC, especially in Times Square. It's not about being 'frigid' or afraid of nudity. I realize that nudity is a natural phenomenon. There are lots of natural things that do not need to be in Times Square.
It's more about the pan handling than nudity or cartoon characters. For those that say it's okay for these people to haunt tourists, I need to remind you that while most New Yorkers don't like tourists, it is a life blood for the city, especially the arts.
But it's not just about tourists. No one should be walking or driving down the street and be approached by aggressive pan handlers. I hated the window washers back in the 80s and 90s and don't (won't) expose kids to panhandlers, topless or not, in Time's Square. One person's right to freedom of expression does not trump the public.
It's more about the pan handling than nudity or cartoon characters. For those that say it's okay for these people to haunt tourists, I need to remind you that while most New Yorkers don't like tourists, it is a life blood for the city, especially the arts.
But it's not just about tourists. No one should be walking or driving down the street and be approached by aggressive pan handlers. I hated the window washers back in the 80s and 90s and don't (won't) expose kids to panhandlers, topless or not, in Time's Square. One person's right to freedom of expression does not trump the public.
50
Begging is a protected constitutional right under the New York State Constitution. You can't just "remove"panhandlers.
A couple of things.
1. New York is not Copenhagen.
2. And this is probably off-topic. I wish the mayor and the governor took to their fainting couches over the presence of homeless people rather than over a few scantily clad women, who I find less less obscene and upsetting be several orders of magnitude. Too bad no one is running around trying to help people in desperate situations.
But then it is probably in our nature to do something, anything, to take our minds off our real problems..
1. New York is not Copenhagen.
2. And this is probably off-topic. I wish the mayor and the governor took to their fainting couches over the presence of homeless people rather than over a few scantily clad women, who I find less less obscene and upsetting be several orders of magnitude. Too bad no one is running around trying to help people in desperate situations.
But then it is probably in our nature to do something, anything, to take our minds off our real problems..
76
One of my first jobs in New York was delivering costumes to theaters when we'd finished making them. Being the newest person on the team, I got the job no fare for a cab. I learned the alleys and short cuts from the costume shops down town because it was dangerous to try to carry something so bulky that threatened to drag the ground. If I tripped, I could have easily gotten trampled and tourists would have taken photos to show the folks back home. And I loved it all. I felt part of something essential, life itself even if gritty, dirty and a bit dangerous.
I see Times Square as the age old place where mobs have always gathered hoping to catch something exciting. It used to be hangings. Now it's topless women. Actually it's always been some form of topless women.
When Times Square was in the first stages of taming Hell's Kitchen, many commented that the prostitutes, peep shows, dive bars and bums were an irrepressible force in the city that would eventually bubble up being given no place to go.
They were right. Together with making the city impossible to live in unless you have the money to buy yourself out of having to deal with the mobs, that push back is erupting--as it should and needs to. Diffuse the life force if we must, but one way or another, it must be given a place to just be itself. Make the city a place for everybody, not just the disgustingly rich and gawking toursists and the toppless women will take care of themselves.
I see Times Square as the age old place where mobs have always gathered hoping to catch something exciting. It used to be hangings. Now it's topless women. Actually it's always been some form of topless women.
When Times Square was in the first stages of taming Hell's Kitchen, many commented that the prostitutes, peep shows, dive bars and bums were an irrepressible force in the city that would eventually bubble up being given no place to go.
They were right. Together with making the city impossible to live in unless you have the money to buy yourself out of having to deal with the mobs, that push back is erupting--as it should and needs to. Diffuse the life force if we must, but one way or another, it must be given a place to just be itself. Make the city a place for everybody, not just the disgustingly rich and gawking toursists and the toppless women will take care of themselves.
23
It's quite chilling to read the author's suggestion of regulating activities that are "abusive or offensive," as this is very subjective. Anyone with power can deem anything they like abusive and/or offensive. Free speech protections are designed precisely to prevent this kind of arbitrary censorship. And the highest court of NY ruled decades ago that women have the right to be topless in public. Not to mention that if these activities were abusive or offensive to significant numbers, then Times Square wouldn't be a central destination for so many tourists. It would instead be what it was 20 years ago, a place tourists avoid. There is no problem in Times Square. There is only a problem with de Blasio's attitude toward people exercising their rights under New York's constitution, which he has sworn to uphold.
32
If it were just about free speech, they would not be pan handling. This is about pan handling and I don't care if you are dressed in costumes or stark naked. I have the right to walk and not be accosted or harassed by those telling me I need to pay to walk past them.
5
Unless something is done, the next thing you know you'll have Miley Cyrus performing live in Times Square!
5
We all wish.
The problem is de Blasio not Times Square.
3
This op-ed hails from Copenhagen? How … unusual.
Those who react to a few “desnudas” in Times Square by believing that it’s become “more sleazy and vulgar” than ever apparently never knew Times Square before the 1990s, when Rudy Giuliani cleaned it up. Those of us who knew it in the 1970s and 1980s remember used syringes and used items of even more vulgar nature littering the ground, head shops and adult emporiums scattered all over, and hookers and pimps everywhere guiding johns to dilapidated tenements off the Square. Drugs and drunkenness were ubiquitous. Violence was common.
I’ll take the “desnudas” any day.
But the op-ed dedicates far more ink and real estate to useful suggestions to make Times Square more effective as a gathering place for people than it does a discussion of the “Naked Truth”. Considering those suggestions and implementing some of them is a good second step to the “pedestrianization” of Times Square. The notion that NYC should get rid of the plaza and permit auto traffic to flow through Times Square again merely to address a few painted, partially-nude panhandlers, is just massively excessive.
Those who react to a few “desnudas” in Times Square by believing that it’s become “more sleazy and vulgar” than ever apparently never knew Times Square before the 1990s, when Rudy Giuliani cleaned it up. Those of us who knew it in the 1970s and 1980s remember used syringes and used items of even more vulgar nature littering the ground, head shops and adult emporiums scattered all over, and hookers and pimps everywhere guiding johns to dilapidated tenements off the Square. Drugs and drunkenness were ubiquitous. Violence was common.
I’ll take the “desnudas” any day.
But the op-ed dedicates far more ink and real estate to useful suggestions to make Times Square more effective as a gathering place for people than it does a discussion of the “Naked Truth”. Considering those suggestions and implementing some of them is a good second step to the “pedestrianization” of Times Square. The notion that NYC should get rid of the plaza and permit auto traffic to flow through Times Square again merely to address a few painted, partially-nude panhandlers, is just massively excessive.
8
“…PUBLIC controversy has returned to haunt Times Square. This time, it is the presence of body-painted, topless women, who call themselves ‘desnudas,’ and are accused of polluting the public space by ‘aggressive panhandling’…
…They can also require performers to be registered or licensed…”
___
Where exactly are the ‘desnudas’ to maintain their proof of registration or license when questioned/asked?
…They can also require performers to be registered or licensed…”
___
Where exactly are the ‘desnudas’ to maintain their proof of registration or license when questioned/asked?
If you're writing from Copenhagen, you probably know that women in Europe sunbathe topless, not only at beaches but also in public parks and in cities, and no one raises an eyebrow. In fact, in Canada, the TV show "Naked News" regularly films topless women walking on the streets of Toronto or Montreal, and no one complains. Only a few miles from the US, there seems to be a totally different attitude to this.
34
It's not about sunbathing or going topless, it's about pan handling. And I know that those in Europe sunbathing topless are NOT panhandling.
5
These women aren't panhandlers, and if you're male and have no interest in taking a photo with them, they will gladly and quietly move on to someone else after you've declined their offer. There's nothing aggressive in their approach, and it is, in fact, legal for women to bare their breasts in the city.
The desnudas help to make Times Square something other than the Disneyland that DiBlasio has in mind for it. And the city has far, far bigger problems, even with other types of street performers, than it does with the desnudas.
The desnudas help to make Times Square something other than the Disneyland that DiBlasio has in mind for it. And the city has far, far bigger problems, even with other types of street performers, than it does with the desnudas.
16
The panhandlers, topless women or not, are not sunbathing and Times Square is not a beach or a public park. Let street performers audition, adhere to regulations, and free visitors from harrassment.
1
As a longtime tourist to NYC (82 years) I recall Times Square crowds on VJ Day,
Times Square traffic Jams during the 50's, horrible conditions during the 60's and finally a pedestrian and tourist friendly Times Square during the recent months. The presence of talentless costumed aggressive panhandlers, and more recently the topless intrusive ladies has detracted from the pleasure of strolling through this area. It's time to enforce the laws and curtail the unwelcome activities of the street performers and simi-naked panhandlers,and restore this area to the people of New York and the tourists.
Times Square traffic Jams during the 50's, horrible conditions during the 60's and finally a pedestrian and tourist friendly Times Square during the recent months. The presence of talentless costumed aggressive panhandlers, and more recently the topless intrusive ladies has detracted from the pleasure of strolling through this area. It's time to enforce the laws and curtail the unwelcome activities of the street performers and simi-naked panhandlers,and restore this area to the people of New York and the tourists.
10
I am a tourist. My wife and I visit Manhattan once or twice a year from Ohio to ever-expand our experience of the city and its friendly residents.
We often stay at one of two hotels, one on W. 46th between Times Square and 5th Ave., the other on W. 48th between Times Square and 8th. When walking north or south, we know to avoid Times Square by using 5th or 8th.
Never in our European travels have we experienced the pedestrian gridlock of Times Square where we often stand in line to get from point A to Point B, north or south through Times Square.
Are there street performers? My eyes are focused on the person's shoes in front of me as I try to avoid stepping on him when he stops again. True, there's been a lot of seemingly-unending construction above and below (Is it over yet?) that squishes pedestrians between what used to be the sidewalk and a concrete barrier. Of course, the other side of TS where we get to use the sidewalk is no better. Walking two-abreast is impossible on one side. It's difficult on the other.
And crossing Times Square east to west can only be safely done at the pedestrian plaza.
To think that Times Square can ever be like a European Plaza with restaurant seating outside restaurants, hand-in-hand leisurely strolls across plazas, public speechifying, and large groups clustered about monuments is a foolish notion.
We often stay at one of two hotels, one on W. 46th between Times Square and 5th Ave., the other on W. 48th between Times Square and 8th. When walking north or south, we know to avoid Times Square by using 5th or 8th.
Never in our European travels have we experienced the pedestrian gridlock of Times Square where we often stand in line to get from point A to Point B, north or south through Times Square.
Are there street performers? My eyes are focused on the person's shoes in front of me as I try to avoid stepping on him when he stops again. True, there's been a lot of seemingly-unending construction above and below (Is it over yet?) that squishes pedestrians between what used to be the sidewalk and a concrete barrier. Of course, the other side of TS where we get to use the sidewalk is no better. Walking two-abreast is impossible on one side. It's difficult on the other.
And crossing Times Square east to west can only be safely done at the pedestrian plaza.
To think that Times Square can ever be like a European Plaza with restaurant seating outside restaurants, hand-in-hand leisurely strolls across plazas, public speechifying, and large groups clustered about monuments is a foolish notion.
53
Try the Champs Élysées. Among a dozen other open spaces in Europe where I have had enormous difficulty walking from point A to point B.
There is just as much pedestrian gridlock in London at places like Piccadilly Circus and in sections of Paris as well as many other European cities. But remember also that Times Square is very compressed - the density is very high even without the tourists. Where there used to be four-story office buildings, there are now 40-50 story office towers and hotels and midtown Manhattan is only 2 miles wide.
It strikes me that nobody with power seemed to have much of a problem with the Naked Cowboy. Nor did anyone have much to say about the topless (and for that matter bottomless) Elmos running around and accosting people in Times Square for the last several years.
Nope, the clarion calls for action only reached the mayor's office when (gasp, godforbid) topless women were spotted.
New York, get rid of the whole lot of aggressive street hustlers if you'd like. But, please spare us the misogynistic attitude and double standard, cloaked in cries of "Oh no! The children. What about the poor children!"
Nope, the clarion calls for action only reached the mayor's office when (gasp, godforbid) topless women were spotted.
New York, get rid of the whole lot of aggressive street hustlers if you'd like. But, please spare us the misogynistic attitude and double standard, cloaked in cries of "Oh no! The children. What about the poor children!"
10
Actually, I preferred the old Time square - before Giuliani decided to sanitize it. It was more fun. Of course, I was much younger. I admit the clean-up was great for the legit theaters but I can rarely afford Broadway tickets anyway. As for the naked women panhandling - the more attention media gives them, the more of them there will be. Ignore them and they will eventually go away.
15
I preferred it also. My only caveat is that, as a young woman, I was often hassled walking there even during daytime. But I am hassled worse now, And by people who want to take my money rather than by those, back in the day, who wanted to help me to earn some!
The development of the Times Square pedestrian plazas resulted in the diminishment of two bus routes the M7 and M104. Thus, public transportation used by actual NYC residents, was adversely impacted by the creation of "public space" that is merely an outdoor mall serving tourists.
Not only is Times Square now an outdoor mall with chain stores everywhere, but "thanks" to the Bloomberg Administration, the "public space" has also been hijacked by corporations for various PR events such as the NFL for the 2014 Super Bowl and countless other contrived corporate-sponsored "entertainment-happenings."
The Times Square pedestrian plaza is merely a concrete outdoor mall reflecting this country's corporate hegemony. The architects should be ashamed.
Not only is Times Square now an outdoor mall with chain stores everywhere, but "thanks" to the Bloomberg Administration, the "public space" has also been hijacked by corporations for various PR events such as the NFL for the 2014 Super Bowl and countless other contrived corporate-sponsored "entertainment-happenings."
The Times Square pedestrian plaza is merely a concrete outdoor mall reflecting this country's corporate hegemony. The architects should be ashamed.
4
American's abhorrence with the human body has reached new heights. In my opinion bible pushers and end of the world peddlers do more damage to society than these performers than only sin is trying to make a living in a job scarce economy. Enough is enough, lets get rid of what has really riddle society with misogyny and lack of equality for the sexes. If we are going to censor one type of free speech we must censor all.
3
You don't have to be a Bible thumper to be repelled by the extremes of public commercialized vulgarity. Most of us are in the middle. We respect free-speech, we understand of the issues are complex and not easily resolved, but we also understand why many are upset by the devolution of Times Square into a variation on a Vegas strip show.
Interesting if somewhat unoriginal take. The only way for Times Square to become a high-class cultural magnet for the thousands of tourists that cross it everyday is, well, bring on cultural institutions to the area, to play an active part in its fabric. Since the Giuliani era, the place has been dominated by an extreme and crass brand of commercialism, and simply adding a few tables to the sidewalk, although commendable for banning cars from the area, is not enough to provide the kind of vibrant cultural mosaic New York is known the world over. Leave the street performers alone, doing what they do, for they too are an integral part of the diversity of this city, regardless what guardians of moral may have you believe, but allow big and specially small art institutions to come out and provide something more than what's been offered. Many of the small theater, dance and art groups may need help for they, like most New Yorkers, can't really afford renting space in the area. The city should also play a more enhanced role promoting cultural initiatives, and provide visitors with a more comprehensive view of New York City. Even New Yorkers will then feel like visiting Times Square every once in a while.
6
The downtown New York City area is in as much need of regulating as Times Square. It's called Wall Street. Its aggressive, money grubbing ways have much more serious consequences than a few nude ladies and cartoon characters panhandling for money in Times Square. But it will take more than cops to do that job. It will take political will, of the kind we don't have in America because big money pays for politicians to get into office.
7
I was always told New York is cosmopolitan and takes things in it's stride. Right now it sounds a lot like some small Bible Belt town with their Blue Laws.
But for those of you intrepid New Yorkers who find a breast to be that much of a problem(side note, stay away from Miley you couldn't take it.) be of good cheer.
The solution to your problem is on it's way.
Winter with it's ice, snow and below zero temps should end the problem, at least until next Spring.
But for those of you intrepid New Yorkers who find a breast to be that much of a problem(side note, stay away from Miley you couldn't take it.) be of good cheer.
The solution to your problem is on it's way.
Winter with it's ice, snow and below zero temps should end the problem, at least until next Spring.
2
how about forcing the aggressive panhandlers to hassle each other for change for the amusement of the tourists with the occasional shouting match and/ or fist fight thrown in and have the cops throw bread to the crowd while its happening. You could even double down and have them dress up as de Blasio to do it.
2
The prudery displayed in this debate is astonishing. No one takes note of of the men who sit unattractively with their shirts off in Central Park or in Forest Park here in Qns. Are the painted topless women any worse than how Miley Cyrus and other female music stars dress?
The aggressive panhandling is a real problem and one that Commissioner Bratton should be able to deal with patrol tactics snd without getting into the urban design field that he knows nothing about.
The claim by many other commentators that native New Yorkers avoid Times Square like the plague is right on target. Since its resurgence, it has been far too crowded with pedestrians. Before the plazas, a heck of a lot of folks where forced to walk in the streets filled with moving vehicles because the sidewalks were so filled with pedestrians. The plazas eased this problem.
A lot of us New Yorkers also avoid Times Square because it is just boring. There is little to do there except gawk and once you've seen it, that's more than enough. As Jan Gehl et al argue, TS is not properly programed. But, wasn't that part of their job in the first place? Did they just do a physical plan?
Bringing traffic back to TS will not make it free of problems, but just shift what is problematical.
The aggressive panhandling is a real problem and one that Commissioner Bratton should be able to deal with patrol tactics snd without getting into the urban design field that he knows nothing about.
The claim by many other commentators that native New Yorkers avoid Times Square like the plague is right on target. Since its resurgence, it has been far too crowded with pedestrians. Before the plazas, a heck of a lot of folks where forced to walk in the streets filled with moving vehicles because the sidewalks were so filled with pedestrians. The plazas eased this problem.
A lot of us New Yorkers also avoid Times Square because it is just boring. There is little to do there except gawk and once you've seen it, that's more than enough. As Jan Gehl et al argue, TS is not properly programed. But, wasn't that part of their job in the first place? Did they just do a physical plan?
Bringing traffic back to TS will not make it free of problems, but just shift what is problematical.
42
Well Gee if they are too aggressive that can and should be addressed. They are not naked so they are good to be a small business to make their way in the world.
Excellent! Make Times Square a place where people will want to go and spend time for a thriving cultural scene. Not just tourists, but real New Yorkers. Personally I am very happy that NYC has gradually changed and become a better place for people and bicyclist.
Except for the trucks that need to deliver supplies to the stores in Times Square, there is absolutely no reason why anyone should need to drive a car through Times Square.
Traffic congestion tends not to be caused by Manhattanites driving cars, but rather by people from outside New York City thinking it necessary to bring their cars, and I suspect that every single complaint in these comments from people who want more car access to Times Square comes from people who don't actually live here.
Park your cars in the outskirts, and hop on the train or a bus, and experience NYC like a real New Yorker.
Politicians, think about solutions that would make it easy for our neighbors in NJ, CT, Westchester, Brooklyn, Queens, SU, and other places to leave their cars outside Manhattan and hop on some fast train or express bus straight to Times Square, and a few other central places.
Except for the trucks that need to deliver supplies to the stores in Times Square, there is absolutely no reason why anyone should need to drive a car through Times Square.
Traffic congestion tends not to be caused by Manhattanites driving cars, but rather by people from outside New York City thinking it necessary to bring their cars, and I suspect that every single complaint in these comments from people who want more car access to Times Square comes from people who don't actually live here.
Park your cars in the outskirts, and hop on the train or a bus, and experience NYC like a real New Yorker.
Politicians, think about solutions that would make it easy for our neighbors in NJ, CT, Westchester, Brooklyn, Queens, SU, and other places to leave their cars outside Manhattan and hop on some fast train or express bus straight to Times Square, and a few other central places.
3
The clogging of Times Square is the unavoidable consequence of its fame. Tourists want to go Times Square for the same reason they go to Piazza S. Marco in Venice, the Tour Eiffel in Paris, Piccadilly Circus in London, etc. etc. Rejoice the tourists and the money they spend. New Yorkers can find alternative stores in other parts of the city.
What is amazing is the level of anguish that a couple of painted nipples can cause. Four people have been stabbed no more than one week ago at the intersection of Lexington Avenue and 125th Street, in broad daylight; but no, the Mayor has to setup a task force to protect us from some painted breasts? How about we spend the time and money to deal with the rampant criminality in the Lexington Ave corridor? Or the exploding homeless situation?
See the NY Post's front-page article of last Sunday - no one else seems to have a problem with the desnudas
What is amazing is the level of anguish that a couple of painted nipples can cause. Four people have been stabbed no more than one week ago at the intersection of Lexington Avenue and 125th Street, in broad daylight; but no, the Mayor has to setup a task force to protect us from some painted breasts? How about we spend the time and money to deal with the rampant criminality in the Lexington Ave corridor? Or the exploding homeless situation?
See the NY Post's front-page article of last Sunday - no one else seems to have a problem with the desnudas
102
Times Square will never be in a class with those iconic European locales, as long as a few abnormals are allowed to push themselves upon the many. normals. They're pests, pure and simple, with no redeeming social value.
How tiring it is to realize that toplessness in the United States is still an issue. It exists in harmony elsewhere in the civilized world, why not here in the USA? If a man or woman want to shed his/her top, they ought not to be demonized or criminalized for doing so. If others don't care for it, then they don't have to look. And the children that so many citizens worry about - guess what? They don't care nearly as much as many adults. Maybe we need to learn tolerance and respect for personal rights from our kids?
61
You are choosing to ignore the fact that toplessness is not the issue, aggressive panhandling is the issue, using toplessness as a hook, claiming free speech to harrass people.
5
I don't find this an issue of 'personal rights' whatsoever. The 'desnudas' are not making a political statement, they are hustling for money. Period. If we allow Times Square to be taken over by aggressive hustlers, clothed or otherwise, we surrender to the thieves and panhandlers.
5
This is vulgar and aggressive commercial activity, overseen by male pimp-like figures hovering near the young non-English speaking females. Unlike the other "characters" working the Times Square plaza, these bare breasted women are not operating independently. Are they even "working" of their own free choice? It's hard to answer that. It's reported that many of them are undocumented aliens – – a very vulnerable population.
For of us, objection to the desnuda phenomenon has nothing to do with prudery about the female body.
For of us, objection to the desnuda phenomenon has nothing to do with prudery about the female body.
2
Commercialization of bosoms is nothing new. Models get big bucks, Ladies who pose shirtless for the likes of Playboy get well paid. Much advertising has beautiful and well endowed women that advertisers successfully bet will draw attention to their wares. Do you think the negotiations behind the scenes there by the bosom owners are any less fervent than what happens in Times Square?
As long as wealthy corporations control the details and the negotiation is behind closed doors, not much is said. But let a woman make a few dollars for herself, by herself, and all Hell breaks loose.
One, as a society, cannot condone billions spent on the commercialization of bosom display and then feign shock and dismay when enterprising individuals make a few dollars that way.
As long as wealthy corporations control the details and the negotiation is behind closed doors, not much is said. But let a woman make a few dollars for herself, by herself, and all Hell breaks loose.
One, as a society, cannot condone billions spent on the commercialization of bosom display and then feign shock and dismay when enterprising individuals make a few dollars that way.
Trading auto traffic for foot traffic is a dismal choice for Times Square. It's like saying there's too much noise, so ban people.
The fact is, NYS has a law that says it's OK for men and women to go topless, painted or au naturelle. It also has laws governing street performers and panhandlers. Enforce those laws. Help tourists understand their rights - pass our pamphlets telling them they are not obligated to pay anything to anyone if they choose not to and to report any aggression immediately. Then, have a swift response team immediately on hand to remove the offending panhandlers, and their handlers.
Going back to the inhospitable days where cabs and busses ruled Times Square - a time I clearly remember - will make this revitalized neighborhood and anachronism of modern urban planning, and a blight in this town.
The fact is, NYS has a law that says it's OK for men and women to go topless, painted or au naturelle. It also has laws governing street performers and panhandlers. Enforce those laws. Help tourists understand their rights - pass our pamphlets telling them they are not obligated to pay anything to anyone if they choose not to and to report any aggression immediately. Then, have a swift response team immediately on hand to remove the offending panhandlers, and their handlers.
Going back to the inhospitable days where cabs and busses ruled Times Square - a time I clearly remember - will make this revitalized neighborhood and anachronism of modern urban planning, and a blight in this town.
5
I lived in NYC in totally a different time zone (1973-1978)...then I moved to Rome, Italy...believe me there are vendors on the streets here that do bother and follow people (those selling roses to couples) and some that pop up when it starts to rain and follow you with an umbrella to sell to you...however it seems to me, from what I have read, that the comic book and Sesame street characters in ratty costumes and the Desnudas in basically no costumes continually stress people for money...Creating that level of stress is not acceptable...and those places like Times Square, ect, those places are not the real NYC...get out of them...with all the apps available on smartphones, people have no excuse about milling around Times Square...And if you want to see some true and authentic street stuff, take the subway and watch the dancers and musicans, they are very great and really deserve your tips!
5
This mayor could no more "fix" our traffic nightmare than he can direct his Commissioner of the DOT. He's way over his head in Times Square, which cries out for a nuanced, peaceful resolution. While he burdens us with needless speed bumps and useless, painted traffic lanes, De B cannot even repair our washboard roadways and give our bridges a much-needed coat of paint. Not even for the Pope's visit for which I had high hopes that our infrastructure would get some sprucing up. If speed bumps and painted traffic lanes are more important than the plight of our homeless and the state of police-citizen relations, you know we're in trouble.
1
The "solutions" proposed here are not real solutions. How, exactly, does a naked street performer audition for a "performance" time slot? How, exactly, do these "solutions" stop the scourge of fake monks from trolling the streets? New York is not Copenhagen or London. Mayor Giuliani had it right when he banished the window "washers": take a heavy handed approach and get rid of the street pests.
34
Why should NY not be (or learn from) London in this regard? Public spaces are valuable, and discussion of how to manage them without returning them to cars or simply arresting everyone are useful.
Well yes that's just it--if the audition committee feels you are not appropriate you don't get a permit...ban the desnudas and the cartoon panhandlers, invite people with talent. If unregistered persons show up, arrest them.
"if the audition committee feels you are not appropriate you don't get a permit...ban the desnudas and the cartoon panhandlers, invite people with talent."
How strange. I don't recall waking up just north of the Soviet Union today, and yet here I am with people in support of government-controlled public entertainment.
Stalin would've celebrated then. Putin would now. I do not.
How strange. I don't recall waking up just north of the Soviet Union today, and yet here I am with people in support of government-controlled public entertainment.
Stalin would've celebrated then. Putin would now. I do not.
The matter of how to remove the painted ladies from Times Square is nothing more than a simple legal question, what kind of legal mechanism can be used to remove them without violating the constitution.
And the city of NY and its department of legal council, is so completely stumped by this question that they can find no solution other than removing the pedestrian plaza.
And when considering the who city's potential opponent in this legal matter is makes the situation quite incredible. They are people who can barely speak a word of English, and certainly not the type of party that has the ability or resources to challenge in a constitutional court whatever rule or regulation the city decides to use against them.
The city can declare, for example, that for a costumed person to offer to have their picture taken with another person with the expectation that they will be payed for it is a business and requires a license, or that its a business and cannot be conducted in Times Square. The city can declare that its an artistic performance and can be regulated just like the city regulates which bands can set up to play in the subway system. These are just a few options that come to mind.
All the city needs to take a position that says they are subject to regulation. And if the ladies believe that its unconstitutional they are welcome to sue in federal court. And unless they can get the court to rule against the city, which they never will, they will be gone.
And the city of NY and its department of legal council, is so completely stumped by this question that they can find no solution other than removing the pedestrian plaza.
And when considering the who city's potential opponent in this legal matter is makes the situation quite incredible. They are people who can barely speak a word of English, and certainly not the type of party that has the ability or resources to challenge in a constitutional court whatever rule or regulation the city decides to use against them.
The city can declare, for example, that for a costumed person to offer to have their picture taken with another person with the expectation that they will be payed for it is a business and requires a license, or that its a business and cannot be conducted in Times Square. The city can declare that its an artistic performance and can be regulated just like the city regulates which bands can set up to play in the subway system. These are just a few options that come to mind.
All the city needs to take a position that says they are subject to regulation. And if the ladies believe that its unconstitutional they are welcome to sue in federal court. And unless they can get the court to rule against the city, which they never will, they will be gone.
7
They could license the panhandlers and only give licenses to ones who have actual talent. Even the denudes could get a license if their paint was artistic instead of just I (heart) NY painted on their thighs. When I go to New Orleans I like to see the street performers. Most of them are really talented. There are jazz musicians, Cajun, tap dancers, fiddle players, steel drum players and much more. To me, standing around in a grimy Elmo suit or having someone scrawl I (heart) NY on a thigh is not talent.
12
Personally, as a lifelong New Yorker, I go out of my way to avoid Times Square any way that I can. But that wasn't always the case. I used to enjoy strolling through the area, but now you can't stroll, now it's like being caught up in a wave that pushes you along, walking in a horde of zombies. Happy to leave it to the nudies and the cartoon characters and the tourists. It's not for me anymore.
109
As a New Yorker, I understand why you avoid TS. I do too. I just think your attitude is sadly fatalist. Why not reclaim TS as a place where you would want to be?
1
Also it is so "Disneyesque", it's horrible! Can anyone tell me why there are stores like the Hershey Store and and M&M store? What do these products have to do with NYC? Never thought I would hear myself say this, but the place could use a few more strip joints.....
2
I well understand your feelings about Times Square, and as a fellow lifelong New Yorker I share them. But I would be reluctant to abandon this historic and vital part of our city to the ugliness of the cartoon characters and the mobs of tourists they try to shake down. The blinding LED signs only add to the sense of disorder and confusion. The fact is this last attempt to make Times Square people friendly destroyed its primary function as a gateway to the theater and a place to celebrate great events. It is broken but it can be fixed.
1
Excellent article. I agree 100% with the statement "Public spaces like Times Square are the great equalizer in cities: Improvements in the public realm benefit everyone. The city should view the challenge of Times Square’s pedestrian plaza not as a reason for retreat, but as a call to create a diverse, dense, intense experience of public life that we can all enjoy."
Mayor de Blasio and the City Council Members need to do a better job caring for the pedestrian plaza in their handling of the crowds of tourists, the costume characters and cleaning up. Aren't they proud of our City anymore? They are quick to roll out the welcome mat to the world so they must deal with providing a beautiful, comfortable and relaxing area for everyone. Then, folks can go home and bring with them NYC's good hospitality they can talk about to their families and friends.
Mayor de Blasio and the City Council Members need to do a better job caring for the pedestrian plaza in their handling of the crowds of tourists, the costume characters and cleaning up. Aren't they proud of our City anymore? They are quick to roll out the welcome mat to the world so they must deal with providing a beautiful, comfortable and relaxing area for everyone. Then, folks can go home and bring with them NYC's good hospitality they can talk about to their families and friends.
32
Let them start by enforcing traffic laws for bicyclists. Stop signs aren't just for cars.
It is an odd commentary that the topless diaper-wearing cowboy in Times Square received so much less vilification and howls for kneejerk reaction than the topless "desnudas." Perhaps a guy in a cowboy hat who may be suffering from Chron's disease, and feels the need to act-out his odorous suffering, is a more sympathetic character in N.Y.C., or perhaps all that is needed for the "desnudas" is a cowboy hat above their topless torsos.
6
I agree with this op-ed 100%. The problem with de Blasio is that he has zero vision -- only ideology.
Now I find out that he doesn't represent me. He represents motorists. I live in the City, walk, bike, take public transportation and don't own a car!
Now I find out that he doesn't represent me. He represents motorists. I live in the City, walk, bike, take public transportation and don't own a car!
9
Not practical, I'm afraid They should just be able to arrest the panhandlers. pesky performers, and nudes, but the idiot courts have made that impossible with farcical judicial readings like the one that says panhandling, a commercial activity, is protected speech.
They can't arrest loiterers, they can't arrest beggars, they can't arrest performers, and they can't arrest women who go around half naked. So about the only thing they can do is close the pedestrian plaza as DeBlasio suggests. It just gets in the way of traffic, anyway.
They can't arrest loiterers, they can't arrest beggars, they can't arrest performers, and they can't arrest women who go around half naked. So about the only thing they can do is close the pedestrian plaza as DeBlasio suggests. It just gets in the way of traffic, anyway.
10
The city isn't for traffic, it's for people.
3
Yes, just make the distasteful illegal and problem solved!!!
1
Well who gets to decide who should be arrested? You??? If we lose the rule of law we are all lost!!!
1
The problem is that New York is, well, not Copenhagen. It's New York.
New York attracts a certain kind of person - by which, contra snobbery of the locals, I don't just mean tourists.
New York has always been a skanky place, worth every penny of the $24 the colonists paid for it and not a farthing more; Manhattan is the skank epicentre, and Times Square is the skank Holy of Holies. The peep shows are gone, but the vulgarity is in the bedrock, like radiation.
In the musical Dirty Rotten Scoundrels, there's a song that could sum up the futility of 'stewardship' trying to impose class on Times Square:
'Dress up a monkey in Armani,
He may seem precocious and cute.
Despite all that primpin',
You still got a chimp in a suit.
Teach him the second verse of "Swanee,"
And most of "Moon River" to boot.
Sure, people will gape
But you've still got an ape in a suit.'
If you're not at ease with sleaze, New York City, especially Times Square, is not the place for you and never has been.
New York attracts a certain kind of person - by which, contra snobbery of the locals, I don't just mean tourists.
New York has always been a skanky place, worth every penny of the $24 the colonists paid for it and not a farthing more; Manhattan is the skank epicentre, and Times Square is the skank Holy of Holies. The peep shows are gone, but the vulgarity is in the bedrock, like radiation.
In the musical Dirty Rotten Scoundrels, there's a song that could sum up the futility of 'stewardship' trying to impose class on Times Square:
'Dress up a monkey in Armani,
He may seem precocious and cute.
Despite all that primpin',
You still got a chimp in a suit.
Teach him the second verse of "Swanee,"
And most of "Moon River" to boot.
Sure, people will gape
But you've still got an ape in a suit.'
If you're not at ease with sleaze, New York City, especially Times Square, is not the place for you and never has been.
29
Just who are you calling 'an ape', my friend?
2
New York City is also the epicenter of some of the most amazing culture in the world. We have world class ballet, opera, classical concerts, rock concerts, parks, and museums. Some at a prize, but frequently affordable, and others free. There is no reason why we could not make Times Square a better place.
Next time you come in from NJ, instead of hanging out at "skanky" Times Square like other tourists, I invite you to check out the places where New Yorkers go to enjoy our amazing city.
Next time you come in from NJ, instead of hanging out at "skanky" Times Square like other tourists, I invite you to check out the places where New Yorkers go to enjoy our amazing city.
4
Thanks for the thoughtful and witty appraisal of the character of New York City. You have my permission to stay on your side of the Hudson, safe from our corrupting influence.
2
The successes Europe has with turning their city centers into pedestrian only zones is because most Europeans are "civilized," not willing to spoil their environment, which American tend to do because of greed and just plain selfishness. It's a free country and I can do anything I want is the attitude, and big business is right up there with most Americans taking advantage of what good we try to create and grabbing what's in it for them.
In theory, Times Square is a wonderful idea. The problem is that Times Square is in a country that celebrates excess profits, selfishness and most people living in anxiety due to no social safety nets (or the threat of eliminating whatever we have by the GOP). Anything goes to make a buck, even the destruction of our quality of life, is the default we live with.
Good luck turning Times Square into a fun place; real fun is something most Americans can't afford, living under a culture of hustling and being hustled.
In theory, Times Square is a wonderful idea. The problem is that Times Square is in a country that celebrates excess profits, selfishness and most people living in anxiety due to no social safety nets (or the threat of eliminating whatever we have by the GOP). Anything goes to make a buck, even the destruction of our quality of life, is the default we live with.
Good luck turning Times Square into a fun place; real fun is something most Americans can't afford, living under a culture of hustling and being hustled.
129
Been to Florence recently Ben?
The desnudas are probably a warm weather phenomenon and will disappear in a month or two. This should give some time for cooler heads to look at the problem more fully and come up with reasonable solutions before the warmer weather comes again.
Almost every major city has a large pedestrian square, some, like Paris have a number. New York City should as well.
Almost every major city has a large pedestrian square, some, like Paris have a number. New York City should as well.
62
Funny how no one said boo about the hucksters, film-flam artists and panhandlers in Times Square until few showed up topless.
146
Not true. People did complain after an Elmo mugged a tourist.
4
I get it. I consider myself to be a pretty liberal person, and on all other issues I normally take the most left-leaning opinion. Like most New Yorkers, I avoid Times Square like the plague. But when my 7 year old brother comes to visit me this Fall, he will be most excited about going to Times Square... it's the quintessential scene from NY that is continually represented in movies, and there's also the Lego store (he's obsessed), Hersey's and M&M. I'd prefer if topless performers, who are so obviously playing up their own sexuality for profit, weren't a part of what would otherwise be a wholesome (if cheesy) NYC experience.
34
"hucksters, film-flam artists and panhandlers in Times Square ". Republican presidential candidates?
4
If Times Square needs real stewardship, it won't get it from this Mayor. He cannot lead--by example or otherwise--and we are relegated to the momentary self-interest of Times Square lobbying groups who have his ear. And far-more disturbing and a source of real disgrace is the plight of our homeless--who have no lobby--in housing unfit for animals as recently reported by the NYT. No task force for them. The Mayor cannot lead and he does not care about most of the City's burning issues. A poster boy for mediocrity in a great city. Something is wrong with this picture.
9
"The plight of our homeless [who live] in housing unfit for animals."
A bottle of Chlorox Cleanup costs less than getting a tattoo. A landlord is responsible for cracked ceilings; tenants are responsible for filthy kitchens and bathrooms.
A little boric acid does wonders for roach infestations, by the way. That's not expensive either.
Very few of us New Yorkers have ever moved into an apartment without, first thing, scrubbing tubs, sinks, and stoves.
A bottle of Chlorox Cleanup costs less than getting a tattoo. A landlord is responsible for cracked ceilings; tenants are responsible for filthy kitchens and bathrooms.
A little boric acid does wonders for roach infestations, by the way. That's not expensive either.
Very few of us New Yorkers have ever moved into an apartment without, first thing, scrubbing tubs, sinks, and stoves.
5
Jon Black, are you working out of a nondescript building in Russia or in Albany, near the governor's office?
1
The current plight of the homeless recently reported in the NYT, was a result of a program started by Guiliani, not de Blasio. No one said you need to like the current mayor, but please don't make things up.
Why on Earth--even in Copenhagen--do politicians and the puble feel the need to make the most congested place in the USA more congested? It is insane!
8
Because central places in big cities should be for people - not for cars.
3
The thinking goes like this: By making a congested area even worse you may discourage us from using it at all.
At a conference of coastal zone planners a panel suggestion was made that poison ivy be used a dune stabilization planting. Same type of idea - punish the user.
At a conference of coastal zone planners a panel suggestion was made that poison ivy be used a dune stabilization planting. Same type of idea - punish the user.
Most major international cities today have a chunk given over almost entirely to a vulgar, highly commercialized and inauthentic subculture intended to attract and entertain tourists who like that sort of thing. The plaza-ization of Times Square did not really affect New Yorkers, who were already avoiding the area before (with the exception of those New Yorkers captive in the office towers). I very much doubt that the subculture of Times Square will ever be elevated. The city's focus should be on planning and regulating as thoroughly as possible to keep this kind of crass tourist-oriented subculture from further metastasizing into other pockets of the city.
35
Hadn't thought about it before but you are absolutely correct. Even though I live close to Times Square, I would be willing to live with its current horrible incarnation if we could just put all the stupid stuff there and not let it infect other parts of the city.
1
I've worked at Times Square and Herald Square from late 80's til now. The "clean up" of Times Square only pushed the down trotted and homeless to 34th St. Yes, the Elmo's and topless now in Times Square is a slightly different issue, but the results will be the same. We need to think broader. I'm not sure what that is yet........
13
Traffic flow improved? Are you joking? Have you ever been to Midtown Manhattan?
10
The authors state traffic has improved, you say that's not true. I would like to see supporting facts or studies for both. Opinions won't cut it either way.
2
Took me two and a half hours to go from West 15th Street to West 106th Street on a bus at 6 pm the other day. Midtown was a parking lot. It wasn't that way before the bike lanes and pedestrian plazas existed. Would help if they had some traffic cops out to prevent vehicles from blocking the box. The few I did see were standing on the sidewalk surfing on their smartphones.
1
No one is talking about the real problem. Our planners took the greatest city in the world and modeled its development according to the inspiration of Gatlinburg or Branson. NY does not need to be a tourist trap to survive.
43
Having just returned from London where public squares, the arts, entertainment and tourism flourish without painted bodies, costumed characters and incessant panhandling made me think that is the very place Cuomo and de Blasio should spend a weekend together. Maybe then they would come to their senses and realize that Times Square needs more stewardship, not more cars. If ever two leaders needed to find some common ground - it's these two. And Times Square is just the place to find it.
170
The problem in NYC is not the public spaces, which I love, but the fact that there is so much poverty here compared to the EU, especially the UK or Scandinavia. I've lived in Europe (Spain and Italy) half my life, and go there 2-3 times a year and despite a failing economy and high unemployment, public spaces are clean and rarely taken over by the homeless. Also, Americans litter and are not very respectful of public spaces. I've seen well dressed, seemingly educated people throw food wrappers and containers on the street, something many Europeans would never dream of doing, at least not in broad daylight.
5
Indeed, London's Covent Garden, for example, constantly draws huge crowds, mostly delighted, among other attractions, with very talented street performers (vetted, as the article mentions). Somehow as a very public, open space it is just more "classy" than Times Square can ever hope to be.
Bring Commissioner Bratton with you on the tour. He hates that his troops have to oversee "pedestrians & tourists".
Oh come on. Times Square is full of gawking tourists and if the worst that happens is that Elmo hassles you for a $5 tip, you'll get over it.
48
Does Elmo pay taxes on his/her "tips"
10
Brooklyn Traveler: I understand your comment, I really do...I lived in NYC in a different time (1973-78) ...However if there are people like me who do not want their eternal moment of Zen disturbed by street panhandlers and continually being followed by people who think I might give in and then at that point I have to get nasty and threaten with words...not so great...
4
Probably not. Elmo considers himself a limited liability corporation and , like all American corporations , he is in a lower tax bracket than Mitt Romney who is in the 12 % bracket despite the fact that he belongs to the 1 % in terms of wealth.
Besides,since wealth is now the equivalent of free $peech , the wealthy will now argue that free $peech cannot , by definition , be taxed.
Besides,since wealth is now the equivalent of free $peech , the wealthy will now argue that free $peech cannot , by definition , be taxed.
If New York had decent paying jobs and rents that people could afford, there would not be near as many panhandlers and homeless people hanging out in your plazas.
Most of the jobs are low wage food service jobs or hotel worker jobs and the rents are so high that even middle class wage earners cannot afford to live there.
If you make it impossible for the food service workers to live there, then who is going to serve you your food? Who is going to pick up your garbage and wash your cars? They are trying to stay by supplementing their income any way they can and if that means annoying tourists, they will do it.
Most of the jobs are low wage food service jobs or hotel worker jobs and the rents are so high that even middle class wage earners cannot afford to live there.
If you make it impossible for the food service workers to live there, then who is going to serve you your food? Who is going to pick up your garbage and wash your cars? They are trying to stay by supplementing their income any way they can and if that means annoying tourists, they will do it.
21
Time square is just like the Internet, overcrowded and unruly. Panhandlers and tricksters abound in both venues. Painted ladies and photography seems harmless compared to 8th avenue and 42st Street in 1960. Mess around with this idea of control too much and twenty thousand women will protest by going topless everywhere in NYC. Then tourism will truly flourish in every borough.
12
'...twenty thousand women will protest by going topless everywhere in NYC...'
In your dreams.
Most women do not walk around topless, because this is still a dangerous city and it invites stalking and worse.
In your dreams.
Most women do not walk around topless, because this is still a dangerous city and it invites stalking and worse.
San Francisco may have improved the community centered ambiance of part of its business center, but recent threats against the homeless by its present Mayor Lee in advance of a booming tourist attraction (Superbowl) spoils whatever progress was made. The last thing we need is another Jaws mentality.
2
Let’s get a bit more serious than the writers. Sure, the writers present good ideas. But “Times Square” is not the only space where characters and unlicensed peddlers appear. Batter Park has a few, especially T-shirt vendors who operate out of gym bags and can run away as soon as authorities present themselves.
Nor would I waste my cultural events on the tourists in Times Square. Were I planning an event for New Yorkers, I would pick Madison Square Park, or Bryant Park, or any of a number of less sleazy venues.
And the nudes – really, is anyone really upset? Sure it is easy to say you are but since I occasionally pass through, I don’t see it.
So ok, form a plan, maybe license characters, but there will always be some sloppiness in the system, and in the zone of sloppiness, a few will get through.
Nor would I waste my cultural events on the tourists in Times Square. Were I planning an event for New Yorkers, I would pick Madison Square Park, or Bryant Park, or any of a number of less sleazy venues.
And the nudes – really, is anyone really upset? Sure it is easy to say you are but since I occasionally pass through, I don’t see it.
So ok, form a plan, maybe license characters, but there will always be some sloppiness in the system, and in the zone of sloppiness, a few will get through.
3
pedestrian plazas in certain locations may be sensible (for tourist economy). bike lanes are not the same. bike and bus lanes have choked traffic down to one lane on most avenues (three lanes lost to the new lanes and medians, two lanes lost to street parking or double parking, only one lane left for flow - makes no sense). but that's a different issue and has nothing to do with whether a strip club belongs on the street. confusing the two subjects is amazingly illogical (traffic and nudity: not a meaningful correlation at all!).
the other mistake being made in discussing this new problem is using the word "topless." the girls are also very close to bottomless. topless with a g-string is a strip club or titty bar being conducted in the street. does it belong where people bring children, no.
we need some new laws defining public decency.
the other mistake being made in discussing this new problem is using the word "topless." the girls are also very close to bottomless. topless with a g-string is a strip club or titty bar being conducted in the street. does it belong where people bring children, no.
we need some new laws defining public decency.
10
Getting rid of car lanes in favor of bus and bike lanes makes good sense. A fast bus lane will make more people use the bus, and thus result in fewer cars, less pollution, and faster traffic for most people. Every bicycle in this city represents one less car in the street. A do agree with you though, that the double parking is annoying and a real problem. Many cars tend to think of the bicycle lanes as a place to park or at least take breaks with the engine running, thus causing major risks for bicyclists and others when the bicyclists have to go around them into the car lane.
2
Do we really need to increase the risk of another car bomb in Times Square?
3
From what Times Square was a few years back, this isn't much of a problem.
34
To me the issue is that "desnudas" seem to be foreign immigrants with uncertain legal immigration status, as opposed to enterprising US women trying to make a buck.
Could someone clarify?
Could someone clarify?
6
The Desnudas are in fact, less disruptive and less commercial than the street acrobats who perform in Washington Square Park, accompanied by "drummers" whose only purpose appears to be to drown out the sounds of any actual musicians who have come to the park to play music, and make a pilgrimage to what is sacred ground for many fans of folk music. Two of those performers, Kareem and Tyheem Barnes (Tic and Tac), carry on for as long as 6 hours at a stretch, demanding money in large bags, while their "drummer" bangs out rimshots and noises that sound closer to gunpowder explosions. Why the Desnudas- who are quite unobtrusive- have attracted so much scrutiny, while the Barnes brothers have not has been shocking to me: That is, until I learned that the Brothers had enlisted Ron Kuby and racial arguments to defend their "business", which, like that of the relatively quiet Desnudas, is aimed primarily at tourists. What I propose is that the Desnudas either hire Kuby to help them in claiming racial discrimination, like Tic and Tac, or that the Desnudas hop a train downtown (where they would be more welcome) while Tic and Tac take their commercial, noisy act up to Times Square.
30
Tic & Tac and the rest of the WSP bang on a can crew violate every noise law around. I do not understand how they are allowed to ply their trade.
4
"Promenades along the Seine are turned into beaches with tons of sand and palm trees — the scene complete with deck chairs, umbrellas and ice cream vendors."
This notion will translate seamlessly into New York culture. I can see it now: Manhattan's first topless beach.
This notion will translate seamlessly into New York culture. I can see it now: Manhattan's first topless beach.
33
Topless, painted, panhandling women in Times Square New York?
I see no problem with that. Seemed pretty honest and creative and reflective of New York to me. And it seems pretty sad to me a person would suggest the streets be regulated (correct pedestrians, performers, what have you) or to have it dominated by cars or that some process of creating elevating culture, "real culture" should exist instead. Because of course the problem is not the streets of New York.
The problem is corruption at highest levels of society, a general American culture which demoralizes the average worker who knows that so many things are necessary to have a society functioning--so much of work is necessity whether that means garbage disposal or medicine--but who becomes disgusted at having to accomplish necessity (hates his job) because it seems necessity only feeds more corruption, a culture which makes a dupe of a person toiling away in obscurity because all this toil is not toward any real community but rather toward the few who have little if any culture and community.
In such a world a person hates job, seeks entertainment, tries to get by doing little in emulation of the powerful, seeks easy, striking way out; if a woman with little opportunities maybe goes topless, paints herself and panhandles in Times Square. Wonderful idea to have a project of "integrity", "creativity", "culture" in the streets when so little of precisely that can be created in an office building.
I see no problem with that. Seemed pretty honest and creative and reflective of New York to me. And it seems pretty sad to me a person would suggest the streets be regulated (correct pedestrians, performers, what have you) or to have it dominated by cars or that some process of creating elevating culture, "real culture" should exist instead. Because of course the problem is not the streets of New York.
The problem is corruption at highest levels of society, a general American culture which demoralizes the average worker who knows that so many things are necessary to have a society functioning--so much of work is necessity whether that means garbage disposal or medicine--but who becomes disgusted at having to accomplish necessity (hates his job) because it seems necessity only feeds more corruption, a culture which makes a dupe of a person toiling away in obscurity because all this toil is not toward any real community but rather toward the few who have little if any culture and community.
In such a world a person hates job, seeks entertainment, tries to get by doing little in emulation of the powerful, seeks easy, striking way out; if a woman with little opportunities maybe goes topless, paints herself and panhandles in Times Square. Wonderful idea to have a project of "integrity", "creativity", "culture" in the streets when so little of precisely that can be created in an office building.
26
Really? I'd love to see the traffic and accident statistics. Traffic is flowing better? Perhaps it's true the fewer motorists are injured in an area where they are no longer permitted. Bike lanes and plazas and parking practically in the middle of the street has only made traffic worse. Bloomberg left his mark. And this author thinks "steeply rising values of retail space" is a great thing. To call Times Square one of the "city's communities" is to misunderstand a tourist trap as a neighborhood. Most residents of the city avoid the place like the plague.
44
Cities are for people not for cars in any case. Traffic brings pollution and creates danger for pedestrians and cyclists. Many pedestrians or cyclists can fit into the space taken by on SUV or even regular car.
Bloomberg was right to design the city for people instead of for cars.
Bloomberg was right to design the city for people instead of for cars.
6