The much more lengthy, redundant, and costly CSS profile (courtesy of the Collegeboard) absolutely needs to be included in this conversation. The FAFSA student aid form is a walk in the park in comparison. More and more colleges are requiring both, adding unnecessary hours to application prep time and increasing barriers with yet another additional fee.
1
FAFSA allows for students to directly transfer income tax information from the IRS to the application. Students only need to fill out the information manually if their parents have not filed their income taxes. Sure they can wait till the taxes are filed officially with the government, but to take up a spot, they are better off amending/updating their FAFSA once the tax returns are filed. This all makes a lot of sense to me, the investment and homelessness question, since it's there to verify eligibility/ illegibility to receive aid, and are simple enough yes/no questions to answer.
This is almost always impossible for several reasons:
1. Fafsa is due by most universities before tax due date.
2. Only people filing for refunds file early; others wait until 4/15 to file, months past FAFSA due date
3. Data doesn't transfer correctly for self employed people, resulting in errors which requires manual input.
4. IRS requires an additional step for randomly selected people called "Financial Verification." I personally was selected for this in 2015, it is one of the most onerous processes ever imagined and is still on-going. Meanwhile, my son's federal grants and loans are in limbo and I am expected to pay the university fees by the due dates, without federal aid.
5. IRS website has basically been non-functioning since last year and auto-fill is not working, due to hacks to system. Paper and mail-in system is now being utilized to process forms. Takes months and there is not internal system of follow-up at IRS.
So. Your answer is theoretically "nice." But realistically non-existent.
1. Fafsa is due by most universities before tax due date.
2. Only people filing for refunds file early; others wait until 4/15 to file, months past FAFSA due date
3. Data doesn't transfer correctly for self employed people, resulting in errors which requires manual input.
4. IRS requires an additional step for randomly selected people called "Financial Verification." I personally was selected for this in 2015, it is one of the most onerous processes ever imagined and is still on-going. Meanwhile, my son's federal grants and loans are in limbo and I am expected to pay the university fees by the due dates, without federal aid.
5. IRS website has basically been non-functioning since last year and auto-fill is not working, due to hacks to system. Paper and mail-in system is now being utilized to process forms. Takes months and there is not internal system of follow-up at IRS.
So. Your answer is theoretically "nice." But realistically non-existent.
3
In addition, the tax code is co complex that I don;t even understand how to file my taxes properly which is why I have an accountant. When I looked at the FAFSA, I almost fell over and died. Many of the lines in it don;t even match up with tax form lines so you have to look up different line items form your tax forms and then add different ones together or subtracts some form some lines to get the correct number for the FAFSA form.
1
I'd like to say one more thing about this discussion. As a former tax preparer, I can assure you that the ability to figure out tax forms (and FAFSA forms) relates less to intelligence and more to sophistication. Many, many people have absolutely no need to ask - let alone pay - anyone to complete their forms. They lack confidence! And when so much is riding on an accurately filled in FAFSA, I can only sympathize students who may not have examples in their own families, or adequate counseling in school, when they face the forms.
1
If these students are so bright, how is it that they don't know about FAFSA. There are FAFSA advertisements everywhere! FAFSA's job is to narrow the gap between rich and poor and it is how I pay for my books every semester. I have lived in poverty like that that you read about and know how to fill out a FAFSA application. It's like saying, poor kids are too stupid to figure it out!
1
I can assure you that a well-educated adult who has no trouble with income tax forms can find a FAFSA very difficult. For a teenager (however bright) who may have never had to file a tax form, whose parents don't have enough knowledge to help, and who has no effective guidance counseling in high schook, FAFSAs could easily be totally bewildering.
2
This article makes sense to me. Follow the data. My FAFSA form was so long, it included all of my income tax form anyway, so they might as well just use them, and drop the fafsa form.
Except that an income tax return doesn't necessarily account for things like home equity (which can be tapped for tuition), number of college students in the household and child support paid or received. It's certainly not a complete picture of a family's financial circumstances.
There needs to be a way for students to apply for financial aid that does not require the cooperation of parents. If we are going to renew the financial aid process, this should be explicitly considered.
5
The road to hell is paved with good intention. Government subsidies have made college unaffordable for the middle class. Beyond the FAFSA the process of applying to College is arduous and invasive. You need to attend orientation to familiarize yourself with an alphabet soup of forms, grants, loans etc. The sooner the government devise an orderly exit to deflate the education bubble, the better off we'll all be.
2
I have helped over 250 students fill out the FAFSA through my job. What many people forget is that the FAFSA is only the START of the financial aid process. After students complete the form, there are other, often more complicated and bureaucratic than the FAFSA itself. This is especially true for low-income students, who are have to verify their incomes (if the receive a Pell Grant). This might include working through the IRS website, completing additional forms at their colleges, and generally require providing additional documentation. All of this in addition to the newly added, and somewhat confusing, FSAID verification system. And while all of these forms and systems are important, what often ends up happening is that students miss deadlines because of how complicated this process can be, which affects their financial availability, and ultimately the likelihood that they will enroll.
5
I started filling out FAFSA forms in 2005 for my oldest and it was much simpler and improved by 2013 for my youngest.
4
Have helped three kids with FAFSA forms over a period of more than 12 years, various colleges, etc. The only thing that really threw me for a loop was when the FAFSA log-in credentials changed midstream in the spring of 2015. Now with an FSA ID instead of a PIN (and all that), my youngest daughter's application was in limbo while we cast about for how get back in to update it--FSA, PIN, code, login...all of the above? And there is simply no one home to help you, just a bunch of FAQs that hint at simple answers but provide zero usable info. No one at her college responded to requests for guidance. Finally through frustrated fist pounding and reading through the same info several times, we figured it out by piecing together clues from the As of various Qs.
Other than that switch, the FAFSA has been simplified since the first daughter's experience in 2003. Having the ability to pull in your (properly submitted, on-time) federal tax forms was a good improvement.
And having your kids fill out the form themselves, asking you for the info they don't have is a good exercise for them in preparation for other necessary bureaucracies: applying for mortgages, car payment calculation, renewing your driver's license, filling out those endless forms at the beginning of every school year, etc.
Other than that switch, the FAFSA has been simplified since the first daughter's experience in 2003. Having the ability to pull in your (properly submitted, on-time) federal tax forms was a good improvement.
And having your kids fill out the form themselves, asking you for the info they don't have is a good exercise for them in preparation for other necessary bureaucracies: applying for mortgages, car payment calculation, renewing your driver's license, filling out those endless forms at the beginning of every school year, etc.
2
Ms. Dynarski seems to think that the FAFSA is designed to assist students who need Federal aid. That ignores the political side of the equation. There are lots of questions about things like drug arrests which clearly reflect the pet concerns of Senators and Members of Congress. Having gone through four years of filing FAFSAs recently, the entire enterprise seemed more concerned about rejecting potential recipients than supporting them. Filling out the FAFSA was a long, painful and demeaning process that suggested Congress was more concerned about holding money back from "undeserving" students than building a more educated citizenry for our collective American future.
Sure, Federal funds for higher education are limited, but if you want to improve the system, stop financing students attending for-profit trade schools and degree mills like the University of Phoenix. We've started to take default rates into consideration, but the government needs to be much more aggressive about cutting off funds for students attending institutions which provide no marketable skills and result in 20% default rates. (http://www2.ed.gov/offices/OSFAP/defaultmanagement/schooltyperates.pdf)
Sure, Federal funds for higher education are limited, but if you want to improve the system, stop financing students attending for-profit trade schools and degree mills like the University of Phoenix. We've started to take default rates into consideration, but the government needs to be much more aggressive about cutting off funds for students attending institutions which provide no marketable skills and result in 20% default rates. (http://www2.ed.gov/offices/OSFAP/defaultmanagement/schooltyperates.pdf)
14
While the Fafsa form does require some basic knowledge of numbers, it is in fact very simple to navigate and it is hard for me to imagine someone being so intimidated by it that they could not either fill out the form of if they did find it too difficult to find someone that could. A more practical problem is when you have children with divorced parents and one set of parents files a totally false and fraudulent application therefore cheating the taxpayers, other students, and the the other parents for the purpose of obtaining a small fraudulent tax advantage. Or at least it would create these problems assuming anything like that ever were to happen in the real world as opposed to in theory.
1
Fafsa requires students to track down the financial records of their parents. If there is an absentee parent, the student must prove it. If there is an abusive parent or the parents refuse to help pay for college, the student must prove it. Can you imagine that? A hopeful student who is able to flee abusive parents needs to demonstrate that he filed police reports and pursued legal action. That's a tall order for the average adult, yet alone the average 18 year old!
An angry, resentful, mentally ill, abusive, etc. parent can easily derail Fafsa by refusing to provide info, leaving the student to flounder and hope. If lucky, the student will get help from a financial aid officer. More likely, an overwhelmed counseling staff will be unable to spend the required time to help the student. He leaves the college path and wastes talent.
An angry, resentful, mentally ill, abusive, etc. parent can easily derail Fafsa by refusing to provide info, leaving the student to flounder and hope. If lucky, the student will get help from a financial aid officer. More likely, an overwhelmed counseling staff will be unable to spend the required time to help the student. He leaves the college path and wastes talent.
17
I hear ya, but one should consider the incredible number of kids who would say that they are "independent" in order to eliminate their parents income and assets from the formulation, even and especially when they come from affluent families. Surely the result would be prohibitively expensive for the taxpayers.
1
Really? Do you think the average student is savvy enough to do the legal hoop-jumping that leads to a finding of independence? I doubt it. It's mean spirited to use that as an excuse.
Every year or so there is an article about simplifying or eliminating the FAFSA. The answer is always the same. We need a single, somewhat nuanced form, which is hard to understand without some work, because: fraud prevention, keeping one form instead of multiple, and targeting the limited amount of need based aid to those who have need. Until we cut down administration and sports programs and find a way to pay for any college/trade school education a student can qualify for, we are stuck with this half socialist, half capitalist, satisfy no-one solution.
1
You are correct. Universities in the rest of the developed world (besides being fewer in number and more competitive) do not promote sports or athletic scholarships. By college age, it's time to do away with the Little League and High School mentality and move on to lifetime activities such as tennis, golf, hiking, etc.. In other words, grow up.
2
The CSS is the form used by the most competitive colleges for financial aid. And yes, they want to know what brand/model/year car each family member drives and how much they give to their church. Getting rid of FAFSA will do little to help students applying to schools that require CSS.
4
When it comes to narrowing the gap in college attendance between rich and poor students, advocates and policymakers often propose large-scale solutions that never get implemented due to politics, lack of funding, or both. Susan Dynarski’s proposal to simplify the financial aid process would be not only quick and painless, but also effective. My organization, Breakthrough New York, successfully shepherds 100% of our low-income students to college, but each year we have to devote hours – including an annual daylong workshop – to helping students and parents navigate the FAFSA and other financial aid forms. Unfortunately, most low-income families don’t have the benefit of programs like Breakthrough. Any step we can take to eliminate small obstacles that keep our kids from being successful is a step worth taking.
Rhea Wong
Executive Director
Breakthrough New York (btny.org)
Rhea Wong
Executive Director
Breakthrough New York (btny.org)
3
The FAFSA was enormously simplified when Obama took office. In the past 6 years, it has become even simpler. I would love it if it were simplified further, but this article exaggerates the process that I have experienced.
6
As a somewhat recent college graduate, I am pretty familiar with the fafsa. It's not that complicated. If potential students are unable to complete this basic form, are they really college material? All too often, we hear of the dumbing down if American students, yet we insist on holding their hands as they complete a multi-page form.
13
I agree; if someone cannot fill out the FAFSA form, then they should learn how to do so before starting college. Most schools have FAFSA workshops where they'll help you through the process your first time.
I do feel bad for students who cannot receive financial aid because their parents make too much money, despite not contributing any to their education.
I do feel bad for students who cannot receive financial aid because their parents make too much money, despite not contributing any to their education.
Most of the reasons not to move to a tiny or nonexistent FAFSA involve preventing fraud. Having worked in a state financial aid office, I know the people who tried to make their children emancipated to avoid paying for college, who tried to get state scholarships based on need so that they could buy their kid an SUV for their occasional trip back home instead of paying tuition. If there's free money for poor people, rich people will work the angles. Every rich kid who gets need based scholarships instead of paying tuition not only steals from taxpayers, but they also encourage tuition inflation as schools chase that scholarship money.
9
The Fafsa grant are already administered almost wholly by the schools who will ultimately receive the proceeds of the Fafsa grants. It wouldn't be anymore of a conflict of interest to allow the school financial aid office to handle the whole process.
BTW there are other reforms that can be made to aid low income students. The Pell Grant program has not been fully funded limiting the number of students that can be helped. Similarly the government could address the ever increasing school tuition problem by setting standards for tuition raises as a condition of the school being eligible to participate in the Fafsa program.
BTW there are other reforms that can be made to aid low income students. The Pell Grant program has not been fully funded limiting the number of students that can be helped. Similarly the government could address the ever increasing school tuition problem by setting standards for tuition raises as a condition of the school being eligible to participate in the Fafsa program.
1
Michael S., there's no such thing as FAFSA grants. There is the federal Pell Grant, and various loans, and state grants and college-funded scholarships, all administered by different organizations (college, state and federal) and all of the organizations have agreed to use the FAFSA data, except private colleges want to see invested money, so they use the CSS also. The feds may have deep pockets (that's your federal taxes) but states and colleges (most of them) don't have money to burn, so they are careful about who gets 'need-based' scholarships. If we didn't have the FAFSA, we might have 50-60 different forms that would need completing as states would each have their own or state tax filing, colleges would have their own, and the feds would have to have some replacement form such as your tax filing. Eliminating the FAFSA could create more problems than it solves as no entity can afford to pay as much tuition as is being charged.
2
After reading this article, ask yourself this simple question: from whose perspective did you consider the difficultly of completing the FAFSA? In other words, were you thinking from the point of view of someone who regularly files their taxes, owns assets, has a checkings/savings account, and even has a retirement plan? Were you thinking from the POV of someone who is financially literate? Did you ever consider the families who do not file taxes regularly because of reasons like unemployment or homelessness, or the families who do not have checkings and savings accounts?
Before you criticize this article and say, "Well if you can't fill out the FAFSA then you shouldn't go to college" ask yourself another question: what kind of student do you think has the right to attend college? A student from a family who knows it all or a student from a family who's trying to figure it out?
Before you criticize this article and say, "Well if you can't fill out the FAFSA then you shouldn't go to college" ask yourself another question: what kind of student do you think has the right to attend college? A student from a family who knows it all or a student from a family who's trying to figure it out?
19
No one has a right to attend college. This is capitalism, remember? Some don't want to attend college, some aren't capable of it, and some can't afford it. The question is, can we get socialist enough to solve this problem, or like health care, retirement, disability, etc. are we just going to throw a middling amount of money at the problem in a sort of half baked way, and hope the 'free' market does the rest?
2
If a family isn't required to file a tax return and doesn't, then completing the Fafsa should be simple.
The free market, unless forced, (which is not working) will only do that which is profitable. The problem is, the free market wanted to run student loan programs where the government guaranteed against default, the free market wanted to insure only the "healthy", and the free market wanted to run retirement, disability, and long term health programs where the profit margins are nonexistent with regard to certain socio-economic groups. Pure free market capitalists are more than content to stick us, both the taxpayer and the consumer (from whom they earned that profit), with the bill to take care of the rest.
3
Nobody likes paperwork.
However, if a potential college student can't handle completing the Fafsa, how will he or she handle getting a degree?
I was once a 19 year old low income first time first generation lcollege student. Neither of my parents want to college. My dad had a 9th grade education. They had no idea what a Fafsa even was.
Somehow I figured out the Fafsa on my own. And this was in 1993, before the modern Internet existed. So I filled out the Fafsa on paper with a pencil and calculator.
I have a great deal of empathy for first generation and non traditional college students, but I don't know that the Fafsa is as great a stumbling block to a degree as this article makes it out to be.
I'd say a much larger problem is low income college students being sucked into way overpriced private and poor quality for profit colleges and trade schools that trap them into a life of student loan debt unnecessarily, when a Pell grant would cover full tuition at the average community college.
However, if a potential college student can't handle completing the Fafsa, how will he or she handle getting a degree?
I was once a 19 year old low income first time first generation lcollege student. Neither of my parents want to college. My dad had a 9th grade education. They had no idea what a Fafsa even was.
Somehow I figured out the Fafsa on my own. And this was in 1993, before the modern Internet existed. So I filled out the Fafsa on paper with a pencil and calculator.
I have a great deal of empathy for first generation and non traditional college students, but I don't know that the Fafsa is as great a stumbling block to a degree as this article makes it out to be.
I'd say a much larger problem is low income college students being sucked into way overpriced private and poor quality for profit colleges and trade schools that trap them into a life of student loan debt unnecessarily, when a Pell grant would cover full tuition at the average community college.
10
While I do understand that there can be confusion when filling out the FAFSA, setting up log-in credentials and figuring out where to go, there are places that will help you fill it out for free. The problem is when that information gets to the school. They have so much paperwork they have to do on their end and so many hoops they have to jump through, many times without the needed staff, it takes forever to get the information processed.
Lets also talk about the one third of students that get pulled for verification, I have been in college for that last 4 years and have been pulled for verification every single year. Because I need more barriers?
Lets also not forget about what the top level people in the Universities these days are making income. Cutting their income ACROSS THE BOARD and perhaps having Federal Laws that cap income for them might help them hire more people to process paperwork and pay them fair wages. Why is my income so important but theirs is not?
Lets also talk about the one third of students that get pulled for verification, I have been in college for that last 4 years and have been pulled for verification every single year. Because I need more barriers?
Lets also not forget about what the top level people in the Universities these days are making income. Cutting their income ACROSS THE BOARD and perhaps having Federal Laws that cap income for them might help them hire more people to process paperwork and pay them fair wages. Why is my income so important but theirs is not?
11
The FAFSA should be ELIMINATED. There is no reason why a parent's information should even be factored into a student's financial aid package. If a student is age 18, can vote, go to war and be tried as an adult in a court of law, they are an adult. Period. A parent's income is irrelevant. The FAFSA is the biggest scam yet and serves only to hook parents into co-signing private loans and parent plus loans. If a parent can help with a student's education, great, give them a tax credit, if not, ain't their education ain't their business.
24
I disagree. I have an 18 year old relative from a family with a substantial six figure income and large assets. She is beginning college this fall at a pricey private university and living on campus.
Her parents easily spend as much as her out of pocket tuition cost a year, on "toys", new vehicles and travel.
Why shouldn't they be expected to contribute to her college education?
Her parents easily spend as much as her out of pocket tuition cost a year, on "toys", new vehicles and travel.
Why shouldn't they be expected to contribute to her college education?
10
So, the fact that a student's parents have millions should be irrelevant to a finncial aid decision?
5
Given that almost no high school seniors have significant income, disregarding all parental income would amount to waving a magic wand and making almost every student in need of scholarships.
Unlike 'scholarships' or 'grants' that schools give to students (which is a discount off the 'sticker price'), Federal money is an actual transference of real funds. What Congress needs to focus on is how schools keep raising the price to account for the increase in aid.
It's easy to view Fafsa as just another way to rob the middle class; because, like banks, "that's where the money is"
It's easy to view Fafsa as just another way to rob the middle class; because, like banks, "that's where the money is"
12
True, to be middle class in most of the US (at least on the 'blue coasts') you need to make at least 100K to be considered middle class. if you are middle class tyou cannot get a student loan.
6
Bee,
Not true at all. You most certainly CAN get student loans if you are middle class. The very poor will get Pell grants and other need based aid. The upper class can pay for college out of pocket. The middle class gets stuck with loans.
Not true at all. You most certainly CAN get student loans if you are middle class. The very poor will get Pell grants and other need based aid. The upper class can pay for college out of pocket. The middle class gets stuck with loans.
1
To those who condescendingly declare that "it's not that hard" and "students who can't do it shouldn't be in college," I say this: First of all, the real world of personal finance is not like memorizing a math theorem. How many students have access to their parents' financial or personal information? How many parents want them to have it? Second, as a parent who did the FAFSA for several years running for more than one kid, I can say unequivocally that it IS that hard. It asks needless, invasive questions, which you must fill out year after year, dozens of pages and steps, hours and hours worth of work - the online process even allows you to save your work, log off and come back later; that's how long it takes. If you don't have a traditional full-time job but are self-employed or an independent contractor, the complications of filling it out and proving income are multiplied several times over, and subject you to an auditing review by the college. Not only that, but I was told by SUNY, where my kids went, that it randomly selects fully one-third of all students' FAFSAs for such a review each year to avoid fraud, even if you pass the scrutiny several years running, which we did. Whole batteries of people and departments just to check these forms, and running so far behind that you must pay tuition and wait to be reimbursed. If they're going to such great lengths to thwart cheaters, it sounds like the FAFSA is pointless to begin with, to say nothing of the state bureaucracy.
28
When I was applying for college, my dad's response to my request for information was "I don't file taxes"--ok, TMI, he's a criminal? , and what do I do now to pay for college that my parents are in no way prepared to do? Penalizing kids for their parents' financial disasters, especially when the stakes of having a college degree are so high, is at best, very, very mean. The kids always know it.
5
Eliminating the FAFSA is a fine idea, as long as we understand that this means that the federal methodology will have to be modified to no longer include asset data. Asset values are not reported on your 1040 and the author did not acknowledge this leading me to believe she either does not understand the 1040 or does not understand the FM/EFC formula.
Further, families with income above $100,000 might not get Pell, but they can get loan subsidies depending upon the cost of attendance at their chosen school. Even high EFCs need to include assets to be accurate in that regard. Also, family size matters and a large family with $100,000 in income and multiple students in college might be Pell-eligible.
Don't get me wrong, I am all for simplification. However, I am often dumbfounded by how often media outlets tend to report on FAFSA simplification/elimination as though the legislature and folks administering the aid are a bunch of morons for not having thought of it already. There is a lot of nuance here that the author either didn't consider or (worse) did consider but consciously left out in order to perpetuate that narrative.
Further, families with income above $100,000 might not get Pell, but they can get loan subsidies depending upon the cost of attendance at their chosen school. Even high EFCs need to include assets to be accurate in that regard. Also, family size matters and a large family with $100,000 in income and multiple students in college might be Pell-eligible.
Don't get me wrong, I am all for simplification. However, I am often dumbfounded by how often media outlets tend to report on FAFSA simplification/elimination as though the legislature and folks administering the aid are a bunch of morons for not having thought of it already. There is a lot of nuance here that the author either didn't consider or (worse) did consider but consciously left out in order to perpetuate that narrative.
7
I am curious as to which questions on the FAFSA that make the application difficult? I assume that it is the income and asset information. The income/taxes paid/untaxed income questions clearly reference where this information can be pulled from - right down to the line # depending on the tax forms filed. To make it even easier - they now allow for the IRS system (if the timing is right) to populate those answers (with the users authorization) to avoid mistakes. I am still not sure what is so difficult about the application. It seems like people just don't want to be bothered and expect funds to be thrown at them just because. There is no other means of comparing apples to apples when it comes to awarding federal funding (Pell, Federal Work Study, Subsidized/Unsubsdized Direct Loans) other than a formula that every college bound financial aid seeking individual is asked to provide data to, in order to help with the calculation. If the FAFSA application was eliminated - what would be done with the families that experience mid-year financial hardships or extenuating circumstances? What would be the means of establishing a benchmark and eventual recalculation? Maybe a better idea would be that a family completes the FAFSA one time (in the first year) and they get the same aid each year based in that one initial application.
Good idea. As a former PTA President of a mostly PHABO school -- San Diego HS -- I saw many students deprived of a college education because he or she felt the form was intrusive. Also, many divorces result in unwilling ex-spouses. The college e.g. Mills College in Oakland then refuses to admit the girl because she can't produce a father.
9
To those who condescendingly declare that "it's not that hard" and "students who can't do it shouldn't be in college," I say this: First of all, the real world of personal finance is not like memorizing a math theorem. How many students have access to their parents' financial or personal information? How many parents want them to have it? Second, as a parent who did the FAFSA for several years running for more than one kid, I can say unequivocally that it IS that hard. It asks needless, invasive questions, which you must fill out year after year, dozens of pages and steps, hours and hours worth of work - the online process even allows you to save your work, log off and come back later; that's how long it takes. If you don't have a traditional full-time job but are self-employed or an independent contractor, the complications of filling it out and proving income are multiplied several times over, and subject you to an auditing review by the college. Not only that, but I was told by SUNY, where my kids went, that it randomly selects fully one-third of all students' FAFSAs for such a review each year to avoid fraud, even if you pass the scrutiny several years running, which we did. Whole batteries of people and departments just to check these forms, and running so far behind that you must pay tuition and wait to be reimbursed. If they're going to such great lengths to thwart cheaters, it sounds like the FAFSA is pointless to begin with, to say nothing of the state bureaucracy.
6
Learning math is not "memorizing math theorems." The learning is developing one's ability to apply, justify and synthesize mathematical content and its discipline of thinking. I agree math is much more rational and useful than FAFSA applications.
5
This is more than math. It is about the tax system which is increasingly complex. I am self-employed as are about 14 M americans. An additional 46M are contractors, meaning they are not actual employees. Combined, these two groups account for 19% of the U.S. population. Our tax forms are different, from calculations to write-offs, and they do not align with the line items in the FAFSA. Add in divorce agreement stipulations which grandfather into the tax code as it evolves from the year of divorce, then you have an onerous nightmare that even the smartest among us cannot figure out unless that is our day to day full time responsibility. This is why accountants exist. Otherwise, I'd spend half my workday trying to understand exactly what the correct thing to do is, and even then I'd still be guessing. I'd much rather be working on developing business.
As a former welfare mother who put myself through college and law school, then raised three now-adult daughters and guided them through college as well, I could not agree more wholeheartedly. Filling out the FAFSA form is a difficult and tedious process for college students, made worse if you have parents who don't cooperate or whose information inadvertently differs from the federal tax information on file. (As you pointed out, if the government already knows your income, what is the point of the forms?) Behold the fearsome spectre of the FAFSA audit, putting a hold on all of your student aid including your student loan disbursements until all minor discrepancies in data submitted by your parents have been explained to their satisfaction. And if your parents can't explain why FAFSA's records would show a discrepancy (data coding error? inclusion of excludeable tax deductions like union dues, professional license fees, etc? who knows?) in the information they submitted then you have to come up with the money some other way. Pay it by credit card, work extra jobs, get a high interest "payday" loan, however you can scramble to scrounge up the money. If you can't get the money together in time, you miss a semester of school.
19
Why should your parents' income make a difference when getting a federal loan? The student is getting the education not the parent. If the parent wants to pay or borrow money on their own to give their child, they can do that on their own.
5
Actually, the income levels are more to determine whether the loan will subsidized (that is, the government pays the interest for the student during the enrollment years) or unsubsidized.
1
Again, why does your parent's income matter? One would think that at the end of college, it is the student who pays the loan and not the parents. Why do people think that parents are supposed to pay for a child's education after they graduate from college. Isn't the whole purpose of getting a degree is to get a job and pay your own bills?
Good luck with that.
President Sanders will make college free , so just hang in there for now
3
Public, yes but not private.
2
The problem is not not being smart enough to fill it out, it is the entire process of government asking for all of this information that is not necessary. Even wealthy people, who can pay cash for college, have to fill out this form. Why? What do they do with that information? This is just one more way the IRS gets your information to find mistakes. (And no, I am not paranoid)
Secondly, I have been filling out FAFSAs for years - for my two kids and myself. It is determined by gross income so asking about savings, other assets, etc is irrelevant - but they want to know anyway. And the poor kids whose parents do not fill out taxes for whatever reason - that is not an excuse. The rules for the FAFSA for allowing an "independent" student are just wrong. Unless your parents are dead or you are married at 18 - you are seen as a dependent - which is false for a lot of kids. And you are required to provide parent financials - even if you are estranged - unless you are deemed "independent". My children are very independent and are paying for school on their own - not because I am mean, but because I hold them accountable. But because they are a "dependent" in FAFSAs eyes, they get very little aid. It's really not the forms - its the rules. For example - my son is 18 and wants to go to college. He works part time. Why should my income determine his aid status when he is doing everything on his own? But FAFSA sees him as dependent. This is frustrating part....
Secondly, I have been filling out FAFSAs for years - for my two kids and myself. It is determined by gross income so asking about savings, other assets, etc is irrelevant - but they want to know anyway. And the poor kids whose parents do not fill out taxes for whatever reason - that is not an excuse. The rules for the FAFSA for allowing an "independent" student are just wrong. Unless your parents are dead or you are married at 18 - you are seen as a dependent - which is false for a lot of kids. And you are required to provide parent financials - even if you are estranged - unless you are deemed "independent". My children are very independent and are paying for school on their own - not because I am mean, but because I hold them accountable. But because they are a "dependent" in FAFSAs eyes, they get very little aid. It's really not the forms - its the rules. For example - my son is 18 and wants to go to college. He works part time. Why should my income determine his aid status when he is doing everything on his own? But FAFSA sees him as dependent. This is frustrating part....
4
"Accountable"? Not at all clear. It could seem that you are refusing normal parental responsibility.
6
"Even wealthy people, who can pay cash for college, have to fill out this form." Not true- my children went to CUNY and I was able to pay cash. Never filled out a FAFSA. People who don't qualify for Federal aid may need to fill out the form for aid from the college, but the government doesn't mandates that, college does.
Also, the FAFSA does take assets into account when calculating the expected family contribution. That's why there there are questions about who should own 529 college savings accounts accounts- because not only are assets counted, they are treated differently depending on who owns them .
Also, the FAFSA does take assets into account when calculating the expected family contribution. That's why there there are questions about who should own 529 college savings accounts accounts- because not only are assets counted, they are treated differently depending on who owns them .
4
That all depends on what "normal parental responsibilities" are to each individual family. There are many families that think it is "normal" for their children to make/pay their own way through college. There are other families who set limits (separate of the EFC) as to how much the are willing and or able to contribute. And there are yet others who say "the sky is the limit" and over-burden both themselves and their children with student loan debt. And there is everything in between. There is no "normal" when it comes to parental responsibility and paying for college.
2
The FAFSA is hardly as complicated as a 1040, and people with 1040s are hardly the issue.
As a former community college teacher, I saw firsthand how the schools collude with unprepared and disinterested students to tap the FAFSA moneytree -- enroll anyone, get your cut of the taxpayer's largesse, the student gets his -- and usually some loans he won't repay, even if he can't read or write. Then students like this disrupt classrooms of sincere learners -- the majority of whom, I observed, worked while attending school, unlike the freeloaders. It might be argued that the FAFSA should be even more onerous, rather than less, to "nudge" the crooked losers away from wasting taxpayer's generous subsidies and good students' precious time.
As a former community college teacher, I saw firsthand how the schools collude with unprepared and disinterested students to tap the FAFSA moneytree -- enroll anyone, get your cut of the taxpayer's largesse, the student gets his -- and usually some loans he won't repay, even if he can't read or write. Then students like this disrupt classrooms of sincere learners -- the majority of whom, I observed, worked while attending school, unlike the freeloaders. It might be argued that the FAFSA should be even more onerous, rather than less, to "nudge" the crooked losers away from wasting taxpayer's generous subsidies and good students' precious time.
7
As a "good" student, and by good I mean I had a 4.0 when I left CC I find this comment offensive. The number of people that are trying to "scam" or "cheat" the system is relatively low compared to the overall number of students. In addition, what many instructors and administrators do not take into account is that the life of a low income student is complicated and fraught with endless roadblocks.
The FAFSA process at CC's is much more difficult than a University and absolutely more lengthy and confusing. There were times I spent as much time getting aid as I did in my classes. My CC was understaffed, under funded and the bureaucracy left what few full time faculty they employed confused and overwhelmed. This, in addition the the high number of adjunct instructors that are working at multiple colleges and universities makes for a pretty crazy atmosphere for a student to learn in. And lets not forget, we are talking about a large number of low income students of varying ages that may not have finished high school (like myself) and have little to no understanding of the college system.
In the end, practicing some empathy seems like a healthy choice. Studies show that angry people are at higher risk of health issues and most especially heart attacks. Please do be well.
The FAFSA process at CC's is much more difficult than a University and absolutely more lengthy and confusing. There were times I spent as much time getting aid as I did in my classes. My CC was understaffed, under funded and the bureaucracy left what few full time faculty they employed confused and overwhelmed. This, in addition the the high number of adjunct instructors that are working at multiple colleges and universities makes for a pretty crazy atmosphere for a student to learn in. And lets not forget, we are talking about a large number of low income students of varying ages that may not have finished high school (like myself) and have little to no understanding of the college system.
In the end, practicing some empathy seems like a healthy choice. Studies show that angry people are at higher risk of health issues and most especially heart attacks. Please do be well.
7
The few scammers ruin it for everyone. Proprietary (for-profit) colleges take advantage of people who can't succeed in college but bring big federal and state money with them. The for profits are much worse than the community colleges. Scamming vets is particularly despicable; takes their vet benefits, sticks them with loans also and they often can't complete a degree.
1
Agreed. And the FAFSA does nothing to stop that type of institutional abuse of taxpayers' dollars and students are on the line for a lifetime of debt whether their degrees pay off or not.
I hate paperwork, and I'm gifted when it comes to words. Most of the paperwork that is required in life is just bogus to make people have to deal with it to stop them from doing things.
It's what poor people are put through all the time, creating even more stress for them added to the stress of being poor and wondering how you are going to pay for everything and juggle things in your life with no money to make it easier. The more well-to-do PAY others to do it for them, lowering their stress levels a lot.
Paperwork is killing people.
It's what poor people are put through all the time, creating even more stress for them added to the stress of being poor and wondering how you are going to pay for everything and juggle things in your life with no money to make it easier. The more well-to-do PAY others to do it for them, lowering their stress levels a lot.
Paperwork is killing people.
5
There is a finite amount of money allocated to pay for Pell Grants, which is why potential students who apply late in the academic calendar are told that the funds have run out. The same thing is true of funds available for federal student loans. Creating an easier application process, and squandering public and private dollars to publicize the availability of financial aid is the equivalent of adding additional players to a game of musical chairs without increasing the number of chairs. It increases the pool of the disappointed.
If you want to help the poor but smart get ahead, the first step would be to reduce the cost of higher education. There is no excuse for the fact that a college education that cost $2,000 per year (tuition, room, board, books) in 1965, $15,000 in current dollars, currently costs $40,000 to $60,000. If you can buy a roll of toilet paper today for 25% of what it cost in 1965 and can buy a computer for one billionth of what it cost in 1965, why is it that to buy a four year college degree costs three to four times what it cost in 1965?
There are many reasons why college costs, both tuition and room & board have grown in excess of inflation rates, but there are multiple ways for colleges and universities to cut costs. Pass a law, and actually enforce it, that if a college wants their students to be eligible for federal financial aid, they have to reduce real costs by five percent per year. It will take 28 years to get back to 1965 levels.
If you want to help the poor but smart get ahead, the first step would be to reduce the cost of higher education. There is no excuse for the fact that a college education that cost $2,000 per year (tuition, room, board, books) in 1965, $15,000 in current dollars, currently costs $40,000 to $60,000. If you can buy a roll of toilet paper today for 25% of what it cost in 1965 and can buy a computer for one billionth of what it cost in 1965, why is it that to buy a four year college degree costs three to four times what it cost in 1965?
There are many reasons why college costs, both tuition and room & board have grown in excess of inflation rates, but there are multiple ways for colleges and universities to cut costs. Pass a law, and actually enforce it, that if a college wants their students to be eligible for federal financial aid, they have to reduce real costs by five percent per year. It will take 28 years to get back to 1965 levels.
4
Education is cheaper than in the 60s in constant dollars , however
1. non productive administrative costs mandated by government at the behest of parents are way up.
2. paperwork mandated by government has increased exponentially and is expensive to process.
3. student standard of living is much higher than in the 60s, support services, elegant dorms,
4. varsity sports facilities are expensive
shouldn't take 28 years to get rid of these expenses, if that is what the people want.
1. non productive administrative costs mandated by government at the behest of parents are way up.
2. paperwork mandated by government has increased exponentially and is expensive to process.
3. student standard of living is much higher than in the 60s, support services, elegant dorms,
4. varsity sports facilities are expensive
shouldn't take 28 years to get rid of these expenses, if that is what the people want.
1
Emblem, you undermined your position by pointing out that inflation/deflation rates vary wildly between different kinds of expenses.
The entire fin aid process is so needlessly complicated. It can be simple. Schools can publish a chart of graduated financial aid offered according to income. Income is demonstrated by the parents' IRS filing, or by pay receipts. This will give a base that a student can expect, if accepted to the school. THEN, individuals can plead to the college fin aid dept for more, and present evidence (no forms needed) for the need. The college fin aid depts do this all the time anyway. This is all that's necessary.... There's an aid estimate gizmo at most colleges' websites now. It could be made more definitive.
3
So! People are now so lazy and incompetent and annoyed and angry that they can't fill out a simple form without complaining! There is no burden filling out Fafsa. That's a myth. It's an excuse. Perhaps the form needs to be revised to ask only relevant questions. That's as far as we should go.
I believe a better qualifier for financial aid should be the ability to complete college with at least at 2.5 GPA, within four years. And to make it even easier the primary income threshold should be families earning under $50,000 a year automatically qualify.
I also do not believe that the financial aid system is largely to blame for lack of opportunities for low-income students. Smart students know that there is financial aid for low income. They are not sheltered from that information. It is not a secret.
If smart students aren't taking advantage of the programs then where are they going? How do we know this? What is the annual amount of distributions by the program and how much money is allocated to the program?
But most important is if we're going to attract so many additional smart students where are they going to work when they graduate? How smart is it to educate young people and give them hope only to burden them with paying off student loans sometimes for useless degrees?
If we want to gain more students, especially from low income homes let's eliminate the cost of college. Let's get college's to reduce their costs. Why must a four year degree be a life sentence?
I believe a better qualifier for financial aid should be the ability to complete college with at least at 2.5 GPA, within four years. And to make it even easier the primary income threshold should be families earning under $50,000 a year automatically qualify.
I also do not believe that the financial aid system is largely to blame for lack of opportunities for low-income students. Smart students know that there is financial aid for low income. They are not sheltered from that information. It is not a secret.
If smart students aren't taking advantage of the programs then where are they going? How do we know this? What is the annual amount of distributions by the program and how much money is allocated to the program?
But most important is if we're going to attract so many additional smart students where are they going to work when they graduate? How smart is it to educate young people and give them hope only to burden them with paying off student loans sometimes for useless degrees?
If we want to gain more students, especially from low income homes let's eliminate the cost of college. Let's get college's to reduce their costs. Why must a four year degree be a life sentence?
8
good idea but a 3.0 average is a much better idea. Most preferred employers won't hire below that and many won't even interview.
2
Smart and knowledgeable are two very different things, Jay. Maybe you are more smart than knowledgeable in this instance.
2
Thomas Zaslavsky is a trusted commenter Binghamton, N.Y.
Knowledgeable? Maybe. Maybe not. I put two kids through college. One in the middle of a divorce and the crashing of my business. A loss of about $3.84 million. Filling out the Fafsa is Mickey Mouse compared to other requirements. I do agree that a GPA of 3.00 is more desirable. My kids graduated with 4.00s and honors. My wife and I participated and assisted our kids with education from day 1.
So, maybe I'm not the most knowledgable but I have some experience. By the way, in 1994 my son's first year at Penn was about $35,000. That was large money then. And not very affordable when my business was struggling. It's not easy for lots of people.
Knowledgeable? Maybe. Maybe not. I put two kids through college. One in the middle of a divorce and the crashing of my business. A loss of about $3.84 million. Filling out the Fafsa is Mickey Mouse compared to other requirements. I do agree that a GPA of 3.00 is more desirable. My kids graduated with 4.00s and honors. My wife and I participated and assisted our kids with education from day 1.
So, maybe I'm not the most knowledgable but I have some experience. By the way, in 1994 my son's first year at Penn was about $35,000. That was large money then. And not very affordable when my business was struggling. It's not easy for lots of people.
3
I don't understand the difficulty here - if you are applying for aid, supply the SS# of parents and self and have the school import all the necessary data for its own software in figuring out the aid. Income is a major one which is readily available from tax return and it can easily identify 2 groups - one who can't get any aid (typically parents earning 100K or more) and one who needs all the aid possible (typically parents getting EIC, no stock accounts or interest income and living in a rental home). For all other admitted students, with general statistics available for assets and income, specify the maximum and minimum aid possible and the average aid received by students in prior years in that income group. When a student accepts your college, collect all the data necessary to complete the package.
4
Income of ordinary folks is available from a 1040. Rich people and some others ha be hidden income, that is , not appearing on the 1040. It may be legally hidden.
3
The CSS is supposed to pull that hidden wealth (assets) out.
Re: download tax forms. It's pretty close to that now, for the FAFSA. fill in some of it, the remainder can get pulled in from a tax form. Still, there are six more pages of questions that can't be filled in that way. And there remains a problem of timing (non trivial) in that the FAFSA and CSS are frequently due to colleges I n advance of when forms like 1099s are received, so inevitably it has to be done twice.
I filled out financial aids forms for the first time this year, but I found it less threatening than my federal tax return. However, navigation and log-in are nightmares. I had to meet state and institution financial aid deadlines before filing my federal return, noting my intention to have the IRS data imported. I spent an extremely frustrating hour just trying to get to the point where I could check one box to say "import". Why this couldn't be done automatically after my return had been processed, I do not know. (There had been a change in log-in procedure in the interim that was excruciating to work through.)
The aid application forms also give you the chance to argue circumstances. If I owe the IRS money and can't pay because of unexpected medical bills or putting three kids through college at once, like the honey badger the IRS don't care. Colleges may consider these circumstances in awarding need-based aid.
My current frustration is whether a minor bump in income would cause us to lose our daughter's aid. If we earn a coupla thousand above some mysterious cutoff for the Pell grant and our college's tuition waiver contingent on that, suddenly an extra $2000 means we need to come up with more than $10,000. Families earning $36,000 to the median household income of $52,000 can lose tens of thousands in benefits over "excess" income that covers a tiny fraction of what's lost.
The aid application forms also give you the chance to argue circumstances. If I owe the IRS money and can't pay because of unexpected medical bills or putting three kids through college at once, like the honey badger the IRS don't care. Colleges may consider these circumstances in awarding need-based aid.
My current frustration is whether a minor bump in income would cause us to lose our daughter's aid. If we earn a coupla thousand above some mysterious cutoff for the Pell grant and our college's tuition waiver contingent on that, suddenly an extra $2000 means we need to come up with more than $10,000. Families earning $36,000 to the median household income of $52,000 can lose tens of thousands in benefits over "excess" income that covers a tiny fraction of what's lost.
17
Some years ago when my son was applying for financial aid, we were told it was important to file the FAFSA quickly, no later than the end of January. However, it required information from my 1040. As a small business owner, I couldn't file that quickly; I didn't receive all of my 1099's until the end of February. This was a frustration and a source of great anxiety for both my son and me every year. Bad enough to have a hugely complex form to fill out, but even worse to have an impossible-to-meet deadline.
25
Currently (perhaps not the case during your son's college years), you can file estimated data based on last year's return and your best guess about your situation this year. Then you can import your IRS data after you file—though it takes a certain amount of time, maybe weeks, after the time you file till the time that data is available to import. I don't see why that time is as long as it is, and why you can't just check a box when you file the estimated application to import the data automatically as soon as it's available, without having to go back into the form and wander around.
However, our university didn't inform us of their unexpectedly generous aid package until well after they had the final information—I had done something wrong about requesting the IRS data import, delaying news of our aid till mid-June. So I unnecessarily spent a lot of sleepless nights afraid that we couldn't come up with the expected family contribution even with the maximum in student loans.
However, our university didn't inform us of their unexpectedly generous aid package until well after they had the final information—I had done something wrong about requesting the IRS data import, delaying news of our aid till mid-June. So I unnecessarily spent a lot of sleepless nights afraid that we couldn't come up with the expected family contribution even with the maximum in student loans.
5
Exactly. Even should you file by deadline, following the FAFSA instructions that imply tax information is "optional", you will get a notice saying your application has been filed. Expecting an answer in May like everyone else, you then get an "we read your application but you didn't attach your 1040 to it electronically, so do that, and we'll start processing your form at the beginning again" email. If they are two forms that are required to be filed together, the deadline for the FAFSA should not be 3 months before the deadline for the required IRS forms.
6
You can file an estimate, however, they will not process your paperwork based on that at least at the community college here. In fact, even when we did have our taxes done, we could not do the IRS data import because my husband was self employed and we had to pay taxes at the end of the year. If you owe ANY money, the IRS will not process your taxes until the end of June. This means that there was no year that I was able to have my information completed by the deadline. Sure I could fill out the FAFSA and submit it, but my school did not consider it to be "completed" until the IRS processed my taxes. Sadly even FA did not understand that if I could not do the data import online, I could not get a copy of my transcripts----both require the IRS to process the 1040.
4
The fact that Professor Dynarski's own institution uses the CollegeBoard profile to supplement the FAFSA, suggests to me that there is more to Financial Aid than this article suggests.
I think that using tax information or other information available at the Federal level to determine Pell status would be valuable, as it would make access to this essential program easier. However scholarships and institutional aid are decided using the FAFSA. At a university like the University of Michigan, that distributes a great deal of institutional aid this simplification would most likely lead to an increase in programs like the College Board profile or institutional applications, thus increasing the complexity for families and students not decreasing it.
Personally, I believe the Department of Ed is on the right track, working to better incorporate the IRS Data Retrieval Tool and skip logic on the FAFSA. Including prior-prior year tax information might be a reasonable next step. I think the pressure Sen. Alexander has placed on the Department of Ed has been beneficial, even if a two question FAFSA is not a realistic plan.
I think that using tax information or other information available at the Federal level to determine Pell status would be valuable, as it would make access to this essential program easier. However scholarships and institutional aid are decided using the FAFSA. At a university like the University of Michigan, that distributes a great deal of institutional aid this simplification would most likely lead to an increase in programs like the College Board profile or institutional applications, thus increasing the complexity for families and students not decreasing it.
Personally, I believe the Department of Ed is on the right track, working to better incorporate the IRS Data Retrieval Tool and skip logic on the FAFSA. Including prior-prior year tax information might be a reasonable next step. I think the pressure Sen. Alexander has placed on the Department of Ed has been beneficial, even if a two question FAFSA is not a realistic plan.
4
Neither the FAFSA nor the 1040 are perfect solutions.
If you are a 19 yr old who left home but are living in a friend's basement due to an abusive parent, your estranged parent can still claim you as a dependent on both the taxes and the FAFSA, changing your grant/loan chances.
My ex husband claims both my older children on his taxes because it was the most expedient method to getting a divorce. All three of them live with me most of the year--using the 1040 would erase those two children from my side of the expense equation. Using that 1040 would also require that divorced parents cooperate--as it is, my son's father (a 'respected', lauded local professional) refused to participate in anything that might divulge his income to his son or myself. Given that, my son would have been invisible, not on my 1040, and dad's 1040 being missing.
Kids aging out of foster care have no income--put that on a form and you get immediately red flagged. Red flags on the FAFSA put housing, classes, and life hanging on a thread every semester from there out, as loans are authorized, flagged, verified, approved or not, during months while the school registers/drops the student multiple times. And if the FAFSA isn't straightened out by the next semester? The student can't register and must drop out AND lose housing. Speaking from personal experience here. All of these methods that require parental cooperation and/or participation forget one fact--not everyone has parents that care.
If you are a 19 yr old who left home but are living in a friend's basement due to an abusive parent, your estranged parent can still claim you as a dependent on both the taxes and the FAFSA, changing your grant/loan chances.
My ex husband claims both my older children on his taxes because it was the most expedient method to getting a divorce. All three of them live with me most of the year--using the 1040 would erase those two children from my side of the expense equation. Using that 1040 would also require that divorced parents cooperate--as it is, my son's father (a 'respected', lauded local professional) refused to participate in anything that might divulge his income to his son or myself. Given that, my son would have been invisible, not on my 1040, and dad's 1040 being missing.
Kids aging out of foster care have no income--put that on a form and you get immediately red flagged. Red flags on the FAFSA put housing, classes, and life hanging on a thread every semester from there out, as loans are authorized, flagged, verified, approved or not, during months while the school registers/drops the student multiple times. And if the FAFSA isn't straightened out by the next semester? The student can't register and must drop out AND lose housing. Speaking from personal experience here. All of these methods that require parental cooperation and/or participation forget one fact--not everyone has parents that care.
42
Hard to tease out those with no parents (in jail, not seen for years) from those whose parents don't care whether they succeed, now that they're 18, from those whose rich parents are hoping their kids will get a free ride on the taxpayers' dime, from those who are filing the best they can, such as a divorced self-employed hair dresser with a dead beat ex.
2
Why should we dumb down the first hurdle to make college easier?
You don't deserve a high-school diploma if you can't fill out the FAFSA. It. Is. Just. Not. That. Hard.
Furthermore, before we celebrate more people entering college, we need to take a good long look at the consequences for those who start and cannot finish. Leaving school with a degree and debt is one thing. But tens of thousands of debt for a degree you could not finish is dire. It leaves a struggling young person in a worse predicament than had they gone straight to work, to an apprenticeship or into the military.
You don't deserve a high-school diploma if you can't fill out the FAFSA. It. Is. Just. Not. That. Hard.
Furthermore, before we celebrate more people entering college, we need to take a good long look at the consequences for those who start and cannot finish. Leaving school with a degree and debt is one thing. But tens of thousands of debt for a degree you could not finish is dire. It leaves a struggling young person in a worse predicament than had they gone straight to work, to an apprenticeship or into the military.
17
It's not at all that simple. The FAFSA is a straightforward process for "conventional" applicants who are in a household with both parents, and where the family income is earned entirely by the parents. For people not in this circumstance, where financial aid tends to be most needed, the FAFSA is a nightmare. As an example: many refugees continue in multi-generational family units, and often the parents cannot work because of language barriers. Family income comes from siblings who jointly contribute. The FAFSA does not allow for such a description, only accepting information about the applicant and the applicant's parents. The result is that each year, applicants have their files flagged, often have to go to an IRS office to obtain an official transcript of their family tax returns, and more. The aid is delayed, and the institution drops their classes until it is cleared up. The current for very definitely is not able to cover a large portion of needy people without great additional work. It is (unintentionally) akin to creating voter ID hurdles to discourage voting.
It is definitely that hard in many situations; more important, it's simply incapable of capturing the information needed to make decisions.
It is definitely that hard in many situations; more important, it's simply incapable of capturing the information needed to make decisions.
36
As someone who works with students and families applying for financial aid, my experience has been the ability to navigate an arcane bureaucracy like the FSA is a poor indicator of academic success.
28
You are very mistaken. As a middle aged adult returning to school in order to train for a career change, I needed to complete the FAFSA in order to qualify for a student loan and State lottery tuition assistance. The form, although required of adults in my circumstances, is unsuitable for people who are not dependents of someone else. Better than two thirds of the questions are not applicable to me and others like me, but still must be plowed through in order to get to the questions that ARE applicable. For anyone who is not a high school student in a two parent family in which both parents are cooperative in their dealings with each other, It. IS. That. Hard.
29
Thank you for this article. I hate filling out the FAFSA. It's especially irritating if you have more than one student in school. While we're in the cutting mode, why don't we take a look at those bloated administrations at our colleges and universities that are making it necessary to have a FAFSA in the first place. We could kill 2 birds with one stone!
16
It only needs to be two questions:
1) How much do you have?
2) Send it in.
1) How much do you have?
2) Send it in.
6
Level of education in our country is a serious problem. The problem is that we have lack of affordable education, it costs too much, many people can't afford it.
Each year, only 69% of graduates leave school with a diploma. In the ranking of developed countries, the United States ranks 18th in the level of education of the 23 possible.
Poverty is a reason and a result of education deficit. Poverty level is about 15% now.
Each year, only 69% of graduates leave school with a diploma. In the ranking of developed countries, the United States ranks 18th in the level of education of the 23 possible.
Poverty is a reason and a result of education deficit. Poverty level is about 15% now.
4
Is two questions will discourage applicants, those applicants are obviously too easily discouraged and will not survive in college for long. The 1040 is not an adequate substitute for full financial information because it does not include assets. Should taxpayers be funding students who live in multi-million dollar houses or have huge trust funds?
8
The student typically cannot fill out the form, and certainly cannot fill it out without a tremendous amount of information from the parent. Thus the form is about the parents' discouragement, not about the student's.
7
This is wildly distorted. She's on the right track toward simplification but she destroys her credibility by ignoring, for example, the billions in loan subsidies that students receive and therefore the current need to determine if the family making $100k/yr will get something more than just the Pell grant.
3
Just make college affordable for all who can keep their grades up. That can be done by giving students maintenance jobs, firing coaches and turning varsity athletics over to be supported by private businesses, firing absurdly high-paid administrators who have never taught a course or run a lab, and returning college dining halls to the old two-options menu plan. Our entire national education system is in decline, while those of our rival nations are well-run for vastly less money.
10
Exactly right.
The FAFSA is so confusing and takes so long, that at my college we have someone who only job is helping the students fill it out. She always has a line outside of her door.
8
That might say more about the quality of the students at that school rather than the alleged complexities of the form.
Steven: it might, and it might not. How would we know?
I think the greater issue here is if a person is not capable of filling out a FAFSA (assuming they have the information), why are they asking for college aid?
I would think they would not be ready for a rigorous path of education.
I would think they would not be ready for a rigorous path of education.
10
It's not the same thing. After all, most are low income so have been filling out forms their entire lives, ad nauseam. We shouldn't waste talent and ability because some think that filling out a form proves they "deserve" it and are "ready" for it.
1
Let's get real. I help parents fill out the FAFSA each year. The kid never lifts a finger to fill it out. Many of them have no clue what the world does around them to get their tuition paid.
1
Not to get personal, but have you filled on in recently? I have all the information and three degrees, two technical in nature, and enough math background to fill a small landfill. The FAFSA is a PITA, not because we're not capable but because a large part of it is nonsensical and for a student with -- and let me make this clear -- zero access to my financial situation-- got that, zero, nada, zippo, my kids don't see my paychecks -- filling in sections without my assistance is impossible. It is a parent form masquerading as a student form for the vast bulk of high school to college graduates. And that is the largest problem... And the login procedure borders on the absurd. I dare say every single parent logs in as their student, in violation of the agreements you just clicked that said, don't do this! Please, don't conflate learning ability with anything to do with the FAFSA and/or CSS.
Brava & Bravo,
So let's just do it.
What's the procedure for getting rid of "Fafsa" ?
So let's just do it.
What's the procedure for getting rid of "Fafsa" ?
1
Ahh, the FAFSA. Nearly thirty years ago when I was finishing college, my mother used to complain that the FAFSA was so miserable, she wished she could "just write the stupid check" and be done with it all. Back then, the cost of a year at my college was closing in on $20K. I wondered, what kind of form makes a person want to pay twenty thousand dollars out of pocket rather than suffer through filling it out?
I found out myself several years later when I went back to school to pick up a few science courses. It was miserable, and it was more than just suffering through the weird questions on awful form: after that came the waiting, followed by the tuition people saying, "the next payment is due," followed by never getting through to the FAFSA bureaucrats on the phone, followed by unanswered letters...it took until November for them to make a decision, and I had applied well in time for a decision before school started. I spent weeks feeling constantly stressed out about whether I'd be able to finish those classes I had started.
Scrap the FAFSA now! I vote for ticking the box on the 1040.
I found out myself several years later when I went back to school to pick up a few science courses. It was miserable, and it was more than just suffering through the weird questions on awful form: after that came the waiting, followed by the tuition people saying, "the next payment is due," followed by never getting through to the FAFSA bureaucrats on the phone, followed by unanswered letters...it took until November for them to make a decision, and I had applied well in time for a decision before school started. I spent weeks feeling constantly stressed out about whether I'd be able to finish those classes I had started.
Scrap the FAFSA now! I vote for ticking the box on the 1040.
15
My question is if you already know that your income levels will not generate any financial aid, why the need to fill out the FASA? My understanding is that you can't even apply to some colleges without filling out the form. Why?
1
The FAFSA is a pain, but the CSS profile is many times worse. Just saying.
18
Schools that require a CSS profile are horrible. My son had to basically stop the application process to some prestigious schools because there was no hope of getting his father (we are divorced) to divulge any income information. That was it--no cooperation from dad, he had to just give up. I want the admin who decided the CSS was necessary that to see what that did to my son's hopes. And his opinion of his father. Which we all need senior year, right? Extra disillusionment?
16
I have never understood the screaming over FAFSA. Is it fun? Nope. But honestly, if you attend college appropriately college isn't fun. If you cannot apply enough critical thinking or enough motivation to complete the FAFSA you likely won't be successful, anyway.
14
Emily's suggestion misses the point that it is not only the student but the student's parents who must provide information for the Fafsa. This is difficult for the parents whose children financial aid is meant to help. Parents' lack of financial literacy (or even literacy) should not be part of a character test for their children.
5
What did I learn about financial aid in my (several times) of going to college both as a dependent and independent student? If there is some kind of barrier to completing it, or if there are extraordinary circumstances one can go to the financial aid office and request the proper paperwork and write a letter for an exception. Been there, done that, and was successful. Was it fun? Nope. Was it time consuming and at times frustrating? Yep. But was it worth it? Yep. And it taught me life skills!
1
Only enterprising, determined persons with plenty of time to spare and good bureaucracy skills should be applying to college. Right, Emily?
1
I agree that the Fafsa form could be simplified. I have applied for Fafsa for the last six years, and you practically need a CPA to help you fill it out. I could go on and on about how many hurdles you have to go through, but getting the grants and subsidized loans makes it worth your time.
However, I think shortening the Fafsa fails to address the real issue, which is the rising cost of higher education. We need to find ways to lower tuition prices and produce better skilled/educated graduates. Getting more people to apply for aid isn't the answer, making it more affordable is.
However, I think shortening the Fafsa fails to address the real issue, which is the rising cost of higher education. We need to find ways to lower tuition prices and produce better skilled/educated graduates. Getting more people to apply for aid isn't the answer, making it more affordable is.
39
So Constance,
Why is it "utter gall" that cash Christmas or birthday be counted as income on the Fafsa?
Suppose a college student has a wealthy grandparent or aunt or uncle who writes him a check for his birthday every year for $10,000. What's so terrible about expecting the student to spend that on tuition?
I seriously doubt the creators of the Fafsa were thinking of $20 gifts when they wrote that question.
Why is it "utter gall" that cash Christmas or birthday be counted as income on the Fafsa?
Suppose a college student has a wealthy grandparent or aunt or uncle who writes him a check for his birthday every year for $10,000. What's so terrible about expecting the student to spend that on tuition?
I seriously doubt the creators of the Fafsa were thinking of $20 gifts when they wrote that question.
This misses the point. The FAFSA form is there to give the colleges all your financial information, so they can cook the books to produce a plan that you can just about afford during undergraduate years, and that will produce a loan burden that the student can be persuaded to forget about until it's too late.
It's like telling a car salesman what monthly payment you can afford, so he can tailor the loan and rebates to make it come out that way (and get him a decent commission).
In short, the current FAFSA is one more component of the Great Scam that is currently being perpetrated by colleges on the American people. It's part of a scheme that mostly benefits college bureaucracies and executive staff. It's part of a massive bubble that should be burst as soon as possible.
It's like telling a car salesman what monthly payment you can afford, so he can tailor the loan and rebates to make it come out that way (and get him a decent commission).
In short, the current FAFSA is one more component of the Great Scam that is currently being perpetrated by colleges on the American people. It's part of a scheme that mostly benefits college bureaucracies and executive staff. It's part of a massive bubble that should be burst as soon as possible.
55
You are correct in pointing out, but, half of the scam. The other half are the people, particularly those self employed, investors, or owners of businesses that alternatively are able to make use of peculiar IRS regulations or, "cook the books" by not reporting (or under reporting) substantial income (or, assets) to avoid income taxes and acquire aid packages. Hence, the reason for the CSS. I respect entrepreneurism but, shrugged (almost grimaced) when one suggested I get an accountant to do the forms. The FAFSA (btw, whether you are self employed or an employee with a W-2) penalizes ordinary families that have been responsible with their incomes (while earning and saving for their futures) is yet another window into the inequity that is our income tax system.
2
Even better than the culprits you have listed are the number of welfare entrepreneurs who not only get Pell Grants, scholarships and subsidized student loans based on a false off-the-books reported income, but also get food stamps, housing subsidies, LiHEAP payments, Medicaid, etc. while having way more money and income than they admit.
1
@ebmem: you pretend to vastly more knowledge of this than you probably have. I suspect you of having no data.
The manner in which the federal government distributes higher education benefits mirrors its practice of distributing housing benefits. The largest federal housing subsidy, the home mortgage interest deduction, the benefits of which mostly accrue to those in the top income quartile, is obtained by filing a standard income tax return. The Section 8 program, by contrast, which serves low income families, requires the completion of a very detailed multi-page form and submission of back-up documentation. These types of practices, which are rife throughout our public systems for distributing opportunities and penalties (i.e. the criminal in-justice system), will continue until we collectively unravel the racial and class oppressions that still given our society.
23
In order to get a home mortgage, the potential homeowner has to complete financial disclosure forms that are every bit as complicated as an application for a section 8 voucher or application for public housing and also has to submit documentation.
Although I agree with you that the deduction available for mortgage interest favors the wealthy and should be eliminated, it has nothing to do with the required paperwoek.
Although I agree with you that the deduction available for mortgage interest favors the wealthy and should be eliminated, it has nothing to do with the required paperwoek.
2
Yes, it's designed to add even more stress to low income people, because they have to "prove" they "deserve" every danged thing. Bet right wingers were the ones that have made this like this, because they really love to look down on and hurt the poor as much as possible.
3
Nice try, but the tax return does not indicate available assets above and beyond income, which are requested by the FAFSA, so the option to check a box on the 1040 would not determine eligibility for grants or loans. I agree that simplifying the form, but the recommendation of this column is ludicrous and completely unworkable.
25
"Available assets above and beyond income" are irrelevant, they do not contribute to the liquid funds available to write a hypothetical check for tuition, fees, books/materials and living expenses. The current FAFSA actually has the utter gall to demand that Christmas and birthday gifts be counted as income. The recommendations of this column are completely workable, sensible and logical.
33
available assets discloses the nature of assets. If they are liquid securities or other comparables, of course they are available funds. And it isn't "gall" to ask for small details, it is gall to expect the government to give you money if you don't need it, or more money than you need.
My kids got scholarships. I filled out the Fafso. No big deal.
My kids got scholarships. I filled out the Fafso. No big deal.
5
Or making it more efficient and effective. If we dump more money into the system to make it "affordable" to the end user that makes no sense. Total spending is the issue and internet education is somewhat the answer. After all it is provided "free" without credit, so giving credit should not be that expensive.
What about people who do not need to file an income tax form?
9
One option is for IRS to use non-filers' W2s to determine eligibility.
A second option is to have non-filers become filers by completing a 1040EZ.
Either of these approaches reduces paperwork for these nonfilers, since the 1040EZ has ~35 questions and the FAFSA ~115.
A second option is to have non-filers become filers by completing a 1040EZ.
Either of these approaches reduces paperwork for these nonfilers, since the 1040EZ has ~35 questions and the FAFSA ~115.
2
They are eligible for federal educational financial assistance.
1
Who would be the people that don't have to file an income tax return? Even if you have zero income, you file one to show that you had zero income. If you're not a resident and have no other ties to the US besides the hope of attending college here, then you're not eligible for any aid via the US Dept of Education anyway. There are probably a few more cases but you can make *those* fill out some sort of supplemental FAFSA form.
The corner cases shouldn't dictate what the vast, vast majority of people will probably find to be redundant. And this is coming from someone who had no problems with the FAFSA filing.
The corner cases shouldn't dictate what the vast, vast majority of people will probably find to be redundant. And this is coming from someone who had no problems with the FAFSA filing.
5