Just another in a very long line of examples of how religion poisons everything. Our species will never evolve until we rid ourselves of this silly non-thinking.
30
The underlying belief, apparently common to all fundamentalist societies (including Christianity), is that sexuality is so dangerous that it must be suppressed at all costs. Women are to blame: men are apparently unable to control themselves in the presence of women.
Note: in fundamentalist societies, this does seem to be the case; scandals typically involve religious men. How come men don't consider themselves responsible?
Note: in fundamentalist societies, this does seem to be the case; scandals typically involve religious men. How come men don't consider themselves responsible?
21
Most Americans still cannot comprehend the differences between the East and the West. We try to impose our beliefs overseas without truly understanding the government dynamics, the religions or the social customs. We have no business getting involved in these issues - is Libya better off without Gaddafi, is Iraq better off without Hussein, will Syria be any better if Assad is removed? Who cares; let the Middle East countries figure out their own future. It appears the US has only complicated the situations and made matters worse. We have our own problems here in the US; let's take care of business here first.
12
We shouldn't forget the pervasive "honor murder" in the Palestinian territories of daughters who transgress the will of their father. While the Left and the UN conjures allegations of Israeli "human rights abuses," sexist societies in the Arab world in general, including amongst the Palestinians, is all too often ignored...
13
The fact is that in Muslim societies,those laws are popular (at least among men and probably most women),easy to detect the offenses and easy to prosecute. Similar to DUI violations,in the U.S.
5
Is it any wonder that the Europeans are wary of Middle Eastern immigration?
21
Criticizing the Moslem attitude towards women is as pointless as criticizing the American attitude towards communism. They are both intrinsic to the basic philosophy, and the idea of tolerance or compromise rips the fabric of the ideology. So, unless you propose to undermine Islam, save your breath.
4
While it's encouraging that 27,000 Moroccans signed petitions against the enforcement of Muslim norms clearly enunciated in the Koran and the Hadiths, one is left wondering how many of that country's other 33,660,000 residents were in favor of punishing the girls.
Leaders of the the Muslim diaspora frequently suggest Sharia should be given the force of law in the countries that allowed them entry. This is the kind of justice they must have in mind.
Leaders of the the Muslim diaspora frequently suggest Sharia should be given the force of law in the countries that allowed them entry. This is the kind of justice they must have in mind.
12
Adopting a set of beliefs by which the Divine Creator of the Universe is a guy who, among other things, wants to impose a dress code can give rise to all sorts of nonsense. Folks need to free their minds.
15
Headscarves, whether adopted "voluntarily" or not, are the gateway drug for the total subjugation of Muslim women.
20
First: a false equivalency fallacy. Yes, secular authoritarian middle eastern regimes have been heavy-handed with morality policing, focused on women. But they do so for the same reasons as Islamists - because of the dictates of the Koran and the Hadiths.
Second, an attempt to play down the importance of treating women as chattel given the other bad behaviors of groups like ISIS. We, as secular western (mostly, lets be honest) liberal types, don't understand what it is really like to believe that you have the true literal revealed word of god. These guys really do believe that, which is why they are going to be equally literalist in applying all of it, not just the things that strike us as most violent.
Finally, this shouldn't be at all surprising to us. It's exactly the same way that fundamentalist (or simply medieval) Christian and Jewish societies behave(d). When your creation myth includes a story about how all sin entered the world because of a woman's disobedience to god, this should not be altogether surprising. Even today in orthodox Jewish circles there are all kinds of laws around the uncleanliness of women, and of menstruating women in particular.
We have to start recognizing that religious belief is the prime motivator in all of this, and call a spade a spade.
Second, an attempt to play down the importance of treating women as chattel given the other bad behaviors of groups like ISIS. We, as secular western (mostly, lets be honest) liberal types, don't understand what it is really like to believe that you have the true literal revealed word of god. These guys really do believe that, which is why they are going to be equally literalist in applying all of it, not just the things that strike us as most violent.
Finally, this shouldn't be at all surprising to us. It's exactly the same way that fundamentalist (or simply medieval) Christian and Jewish societies behave(d). When your creation myth includes a story about how all sin entered the world because of a woman's disobedience to god, this should not be altogether surprising. Even today in orthodox Jewish circles there are all kinds of laws around the uncleanliness of women, and of menstruating women in particular.
We have to start recognizing that religious belief is the prime motivator in all of this, and call a spade a spade.
30
It's all a smokescreen to distract the masses from the serious stuff that these governments cannot deal with. The GOP uses exactly the same tactics: concentrate on social issues and get ordinary people worked up about them, and then they won't focus on the politicians' track record with the economy. Middle East interventions, etc. Denying people a decent education and voting voting rights helps too, whether it's Cairo or Mississippi.
10
[YouTube videos of belly dancers are hardly what comes to mind as a prime example of dangerous “incitement.” ]
I watched those videos and was not "dangerously incited." Quite the opposite, actually. They were quite lovely.
While Egypt is struggling to battle extreme Islamism the approach taken is insufficient in my view. Why? Because the highest religious authority of Al-Azhar is still operating as usual applying sectarian Sunni thinking. I could talk about this for a long time, but I will spare you this time ;)
I watched those videos and was not "dangerously incited." Quite the opposite, actually. They were quite lovely.
While Egypt is struggling to battle extreme Islamism the approach taken is insufficient in my view. Why? Because the highest religious authority of Al-Azhar is still operating as usual applying sectarian Sunni thinking. I could talk about this for a long time, but I will spare you this time ;)
7
"Ms. Fouly was sentenced to a year in prison (later reduced to six months), Egypt’s top prosecutor was assassinated by a car bomb."
Is the opinion writer drawing a direct correlation between misogynistic inclined laws and Islamic terrorist strikes against secular governments?
That is a far fetched which hunt. Islamists love such laws. It is how they would like to see the world governed.
"This week, President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi issued a new counterterrorism law that includes a controversial measure prohibiting journalists from reporting anything about the militants’ attacks that deviates from the official line."
So, this is not about jailing belly dancers after all. Why can't Mrs. Eltehawy simply address the freedom of press issue rather than slipping it under misogyny-related laws?
I get it. You can get more outrage from Western audiences if your main point is women rights related than focusing on yellow journalism. This is the law in Egypt. It is not about matching with the official line. It is about opportunistic yellow journalists who seek to create chaos by exaggerating the weakness of the state against terrorist attacks. But we know that is not true, don't we? The Egyptian air force executed the Daesh terrorists in Libya before anyone woke up to complain about government lack of action.
Is the opinion writer drawing a direct correlation between misogynistic inclined laws and Islamic terrorist strikes against secular governments?
That is a far fetched which hunt. Islamists love such laws. It is how they would like to see the world governed.
"This week, President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi issued a new counterterrorism law that includes a controversial measure prohibiting journalists from reporting anything about the militants’ attacks that deviates from the official line."
So, this is not about jailing belly dancers after all. Why can't Mrs. Eltehawy simply address the freedom of press issue rather than slipping it under misogyny-related laws?
I get it. You can get more outrage from Western audiences if your main point is women rights related than focusing on yellow journalism. This is the law in Egypt. It is not about matching with the official line. It is about opportunistic yellow journalists who seek to create chaos by exaggerating the weakness of the state against terrorist attacks. But we know that is not true, don't we? The Egyptian air force executed the Daesh terrorists in Libya before anyone woke up to complain about government lack of action.
2
I know this doesn't sound politically correct but I almost wish we had a morals police to clean up the mayhem created by all these topless women parading around in Times Square. They've given a whole new meaning to the phrase "If you've got it flaunt it". Whatever happened to indecent exposure and just being a public nuisance. Oh well I guess the older I get the more prudish I've gotten.
1
In 1992 the courts in NY State ruled that if men can be seen in public without shirts, so can women.
8
Highly educated Iranian women, who have made a few baby steps in forcing the religious authorities to loosen their grip on controlling their public appearance and conduct will be big losers if the U.S. Congress rejects the deal with Iran and closes rather than opens to the West. Women tend to be losers when countries turn in on themselves.
Concerning our own GOP morality police, they do not patrol the streets and shopping centers, but in the halls of State and Federal legislatures.
Concerning our own GOP morality police, they do not patrol the streets and shopping centers, but in the halls of State and Federal legislatures.
11
There is no doubt that in the Middle East, Islam has much to do with morality police along with their subjugation of women.
4
All countries have their own and different code of morals ,behaviour and ethics. Because we are not part of a society and only look inwards through western eyes does not make anything right or wrong . They may well be unimformed , uneducated , backward or any other discription but do not call them wrong.
Um, there are right and wrongs. It is not predicated upon culture. Subjugating a woman because she is sexual is WRONG. Period.
Stop making excuses.
Stop making excuses.
12
These are politically repressed societies where it so happens that religion is used as a main tool of repression no matter the "degree" of faith of the believers.
The easiest way for one to manifest frustration is to inflict pain on those weaker than he.
An easy target for victimization are women. Just keep them uneducated and economically dependent.
Problem solved:
why take a stand when there always is a woman, at minimum your mother, readily available to be abused so you can vent off your frustrations?
The less women are truly represented in a society the more screwed up the society is, at all times throughout history, at all places.
The easiest way for one to manifest frustration is to inflict pain on those weaker than he.
An easy target for victimization are women. Just keep them uneducated and economically dependent.
Problem solved:
why take a stand when there always is a woman, at minimum your mother, readily available to be abused so you can vent off your frustrations?
The less women are truly represented in a society the more screwed up the society is, at all times throughout history, at all places.
5
Morality police indeed. In a region where rape of non believers is considered by some as not only appropriate but a religious duty and beheading is used by governments to police religious orthodoxy it is not hard to imagine that women are the targets of such brutal and petty "policing". Why on earth are we pouring billions into these outrageous countries. We need that money here. President Obama it is time to stop funding these brutal men and help our own struggling people.
7
Mona Eltahawy criticizes and surely the gifted expatriate writer may certainly
do so. I read some of her NYT biography: she is knowledgeable and highly qualified to lecture. She'd be arrested, imprisoned and lashed if she were writing such radicalism/ heresy in-home-country. Egypt has been an intellectual oasis for the world, and let's not be foolish in suggesting regression couldn't happen here, because it very well could too by way of reactionary politicians and Justices.
do so. I read some of her NYT biography: she is knowledgeable and highly qualified to lecture. She'd be arrested, imprisoned and lashed if she were writing such radicalism/ heresy in-home-country. Egypt has been an intellectual oasis for the world, and let's not be foolish in suggesting regression couldn't happen here, because it very well could too by way of reactionary politicians and Justices.
3
Middle-eastern misogyny is tribal and backward. As is much of their hatred of the West. Neither is really part of the Koran. But self-important imams imply that it is. Being able to tell other people how to live by establishing arcane rules is part & parcel of religious mind-control.
8
Well, I think it is quite à propos that, on the same page that this article appears, that there should be one on Cuomo trying to find ways to prosecute women in New York who, heaven forbid, are going "nearly naked" despite this being legal since 1992 (according to the article). It just goes to show that politicians are the same the world over. All they want is power to say how others (but not themselves of course) should live. Power is how they define themselves.
4
The morality police, a bunch of misogynistic thugs, so insecure about their own morals, if any, have found their 'calling' by finding fault in a group deemed easy to corral, women. Faith-based intolerance is abhorrent, of course, but secular willful ignorance and its prejudices, plus a good dose of hypocrisy, is creating havoc in Egypt's society. Frivolous arrests of women, supposedly to 'keep them in place', subdued, is an awful betrayal of the human spirit. The morality police is akin to dogs with rabies, from whom it is best to keep distance; this self'-assigned group, apparently with Mr. Al-Sissi's complicity (given it is recurrent and tolerated) has nothing better to do than finding fault in its weakest group (women) of the ills afflicting 'sick' men, unsure of their own immoral stance and pettiness...all the while, Egypt and the Middle East "burning" (ISIS and others, intent in torturing and killing innocent folks in the name of a loving god; incomprehensible and totally irrational, and cruel). Are we witnessing a corrupt society, or an institutionalized governmental violence, at its breaking point? The rest of us, outsiders, are aware of what is happening; ought we not react and condemn this violence? Or have we become passive voyeurs of a fast evolving upside- down world in need of repair? Even worse, are we supporting a dictatorial regime blind to its people's needs, and to its lack of justice and freedom?
2
The most beautiful irony is that I went to school with a number of chaps from upper class families from Saudi Arabia and Jordan - good arab boys all - and every last one of them utterly outdistanced the most debauched of my western friends in matters of pursuing unveiled women (indeed, when they wore anything at all), in consumption of alcohol, pot and cocaine, and in just about any matter of out-of-control depravity that 17 and 18 year olds could dream up. They were the masters. And they were hypocrits; most of them eventually went home to become models of Muslim piety. I can only imagine what their counterparts today - with even far greater resources from their oil rich daddies - from an array of so called Islamic republics are up too. The imagination simply pales. What a joke.
15
This looks so much like the school dress code nonsense going on in U.S. schools right now - girls sent home for wearing perfectly modest attire.
6
Please see the New York Times story today regarding Governor Cuomo's position on topless women in Times Square for conduct unbecoming the state's investment in the business environment there. Apparently he is a paid-up member of the Muslim Brotherhood.
6
Completely different. In the Middle East, we aren't talking about people going around half naked. We're talking about ridiculously restrictive dress codes and ludicrously harsh penalties.
In many of the novels of Nobel Prize for Literature recipient, the late Naguib Mahfouz, the place of women in Egyptian society is a key element, e.g., in "El nuevo Cairo" (since I don't read Arabic, I read it in Spanish). Islamic extremists did try to murder Mahfouz:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naguib_Mahfouz#Works
For the Moroccan perspective, read "L'Enfant de Sable" (The Sand Children) and "La Nuit sacrée" (The Sacred Night) (I read both in French).
And although Rushdie's "Shame" (1983) is set in Pakistan, it is still a classic.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naguib_Mahfouz#Works
For the Moroccan perspective, read "L'Enfant de Sable" (The Sand Children) and "La Nuit sacrée" (The Sacred Night) (I read both in French).
And although Rushdie's "Shame" (1983) is set in Pakistan, it is still a classic.
7
I wonder why it is that down through the ages ignorant, insecure, and fearful men always had to control women? Why is that? Do you suppose its because in the beginning women suddenly grew large bellies and out popped a brand new human being? And nobody knew exactly how this happened .Why they, women, must be as gods! Kill them! Oh wait, we must keep a few, but they must be at all times, under our control. Furthermore, all Gods must henceforth be big and burly with long, long beards.
26
Civilizations control the expression of sexuality because we are at heart very primitive creatures and to live as civilized people we have to hide some of the cues that trigger our sexual response.
As a woman I just don't know what to say. I am angry and depressed by these reports. These men want the whole planet to be ruled as they do. It is so scary, and I feel lucky to have been born in the US.
12
If you are happy to live in the US you are right to be but we have our own brand of the morality police in the persons of Huckabee and his ilk as well as the Catholic bishops. Mean and women need to vote against any one who supports the theocratic notion that religion should guid our public policy and dictate that women are not autonomous human beings. If we don't, it won't belong before our own theocrats will be policing the length of skirts and the length of sleeves!
3
Don't get too comfy, Mitzi. The Equal Rights Amendment was thrown out in the 1980's by the alliance of Reagan and the Religious Right. You have no more Constitutional standing than a woman in Afghanistan - you can vote. That's it. The rest of your 'rights' are what come from 'The Titles' , 9, 10, etc., but don't confuse those laws with Constitutional inclusion. You're not in there.
2
I wouldn't rest on my laurels if I were you. There are elements within the GOP who are actively working against the rights won by women since WWII. While it probably won't affect your right to vote, it may seriously impact you or female members of your family when it comes to reproductive rights, women's health and other vital issues important to a woman's well being. You might think that voting to limit abortions is all the GOP is about, but it is much deeper than that - it is a move toward a time before WWII when women in the US were treated as chattel. Read your history, look at where the GOP would take us, then actively seek to preserve the freedoms you are enjoying today.
7
THe simple fact is that many countries, in particular the Middle East, do not value or treat lives equally. Bombing them, sanctioning them, invading them has not changed the status of women or ethnic groups or gays and minorities. The power grabs in this region are constant. The trickle down affect of dictator' power over the army, the army' power over the regular citizen. Hence, the almost powerless to control those with less power which is women and minorities.
There is also the deal dictators made with religious leaders. They fund and give religious leaders power and in return the religious leaders use their teachings to deflect from the real problems of citizens...lack of opportunity, simple comforts of life like electricity, clean water, food. The real problems aren't hem levels, it's the rampant corruption, thievery and brutality of their leaders.
There is also the deal dictators made with religious leaders. They fund and give religious leaders power and in return the religious leaders use their teachings to deflect from the real problems of citizens...lack of opportunity, simple comforts of life like electricity, clean water, food. The real problems aren't hem levels, it's the rampant corruption, thievery and brutality of their leaders.
29
Mona Eltahawy is simply pointing out yet another strong example of how the root of much of human conflict hinges on controlling women's bodies and behavior. While these particular examples seem especially heinous and crass, don't think this dynamic isn't happening here in a form particular to our culture and time. Arguing about how bad it is or isn't is nothing more than a distraction from the larger truth that the policing of gendered behavior across the planet is an ongoing focus for those that resent freedom for all people who do not accept their right to rule over others.
35
The Hypocrites !! They penalize women severely for INCITING (!!) debauchery. But those who COMMIT debauchery are lily-white angels!! The pervading testosterone induced, Y-chromosomal audacity and entitlement of these bifid snakes !! Disgusting !! Unbelievable in this day and age !! We have our own version here too - the GOP chastity belt police !!
26
Religion. Thank God for religion.
Unbelievably, the United States - where religious litmus tests are forbidden by the constitution - is itself a dog being wagged by the tail of religion. How else can the candidacies and campaigns of the likes of Cruz, Walker, Santorum, Huckabee, Rubio, Carson, Jindal, Perry be explained. Even those aspirants without such visible nose rings and chains - Bush, Fiorino, Christie, Paul, Kasich, Graham, Pataki, and Gilmore will bend over backwards and walk barefoot on hot embers to embrace God for votes. And this God is, admittedly, the same deity referenced by Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Sudan and ISIS, just for starters.
Trump is an anomaly. Proof positive that in the United States, wealth is sufficient, in and of itself, to be deemed successful, intelligent, handsome, witty, likable, wise, prescient, right (as in correct), strong, brave, and reverent. And if you're rich enough, the last item in the list is optional.
Unbelievably, the United States - where religious litmus tests are forbidden by the constitution - is itself a dog being wagged by the tail of religion. How else can the candidacies and campaigns of the likes of Cruz, Walker, Santorum, Huckabee, Rubio, Carson, Jindal, Perry be explained. Even those aspirants without such visible nose rings and chains - Bush, Fiorino, Christie, Paul, Kasich, Graham, Pataki, and Gilmore will bend over backwards and walk barefoot on hot embers to embrace God for votes. And this God is, admittedly, the same deity referenced by Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Sudan and ISIS, just for starters.
Trump is an anomaly. Proof positive that in the United States, wealth is sufficient, in and of itself, to be deemed successful, intelligent, handsome, witty, likable, wise, prescient, right (as in correct), strong, brave, and reverent. And if you're rich enough, the last item in the list is optional.
31
I lived in Morocco for more than four years.
On any main street in Rabat, one can see the very latest in French fashion and the most strict hijab.
Agadir is a tourist trap ... if a 'merchant' is complaining, there is money in it for him, or there is a family squabble.
I refuse to believe that the very people who rip off 'heathens' with insouciance have tender consciences when it comes to 'indecency.'
On any main street in Rabat, one can see the very latest in French fashion and the most strict hijab.
Agadir is a tourist trap ... if a 'merchant' is complaining, there is money in it for him, or there is a family squabble.
I refuse to believe that the very people who rip off 'heathens' with insouciance have tender consciences when it comes to 'indecency.'
13
It's this hyper sensitive morality thing that empowers the rabidly sensitive and righteous attitudes of ISIS, it's really just a matter of degrees of enforcement and intolerance. Once certain lines of thought and forms of intolerance are seen as right and necessary, it's not that far a leap to just continue on the same line, and eventually keep going and going...
It may be necessary to do an entire rethink of gender roles, morality, and intolerance in general. Islam is under attack from within by some extremely dark forces that have their origins in very rigid and fundamentalist teaching across a very large portion of the entire population of the region. Some change is needed to help things become more balanced in ways that will truly disempower the groups like Boko Haram, the Taliban, and ISIS.
It may be necessary to do an entire rethink of gender roles, morality, and intolerance in general. Islam is under attack from within by some extremely dark forces that have their origins in very rigid and fundamentalist teaching across a very large portion of the entire population of the region. Some change is needed to help things become more balanced in ways that will truly disempower the groups like Boko Haram, the Taliban, and ISIS.
8
Does Mona have any idea how she will accomplish this? Lotsa luck.
1
just look at our new RELIGIOUS FREEDOM laws
5
We have the same thinking in the USA, it's just not as blatant here. And controlling women generally is in the form of denial or attempted denial of reproductive rights. Plenty of time is spent however obsessing over the attire of junior high school and high school girls, particularly in the south and mid-west.
16
Considering the recent report on young women in London attracted to ISIS, I doubt this is as simple as a men vs. women. I wish I knew the answer. In fact, I don't even know what questions would be helpful to ask.
2
How many women are officers in the Morality Police Force?
4
And yet they have stood by while women are being raped and forced into slavery against their will; what morality? the culture has so much suppression of anything sexual that it has created an entire generation of men who rape and brutalize women in the name of religion; what morality? Shame.
33
Ah... the beauty of Sharia. Men are the boss and women with a voice not fully covered by the black veil get the rod. The Koran is the vehicle for male tyranny and fascism. The punishment of women for any minute impropriety is in the pages of the glorious text. Naturally, women bear the burden of this patriarchy-cult because they are chattel. When Muslims finally start challenging the absolutely ludicrous nonsense that is spouted daily by esteemed male Imams, scholars and politicians in the Middle East and Africa we will begin to see progress for women. Until then we will continue to see obedient 14th century women with eyes averted following the orders of tyrants. Does anyone remember the jail sentences handed down to girls and women in Iran who appeared on You Tube several months ago smiling and singing "Happy". Oh no ladies, not here you don't, for happiness is banned in the austere republics of Allah.
42
It should be noted that there is exactly one country in the Middle East where women have full equality at all levels, from the farm to the head of state, even drafted into the military along with men.
After all the Israel bashing that goes on in the NYT Comments, it would be pleasing to see at least one positive supportive remark, now and then.
After all the Israel bashing that goes on in the NYT Comments, it would be pleasing to see at least one positive supportive remark, now and then.
25
Women do not have complete equality in Israel as long as marriage and divorce laws are governed by religious affiliation.
4
"...to see at least one positive supportive remark...."
Sorry, but this isn't it. Israel talks a good game on equality and democracy, but after that lip service, hands its power of law over to the Ultra-Orthodox to say what "Israel" is. Frankly speaking, the U-O is bosom-buddies to Sharia Law and Sharia Law is the direct descendant of the Torah. Tracking both legal systems 'law' by 'law' leaves only minor differences, and none where females are concerned. "A rose by any other name..." still leaves the stink of patriarchy.
Sorry, but this isn't it. Israel talks a good game on equality and democracy, but after that lip service, hands its power of law over to the Ultra-Orthodox to say what "Israel" is. Frankly speaking, the U-O is bosom-buddies to Sharia Law and Sharia Law is the direct descendant of the Torah. Tracking both legal systems 'law' by 'law' leaves only minor differences, and none where females are concerned. "A rose by any other name..." still leaves the stink of patriarchy.
3
Then you missed yesterday's article about women not being allowed to carry the Torah or blow the shofar at the Wall?
5
The author writes "Less advantaged women bear the brunt."
The NY Times wrote extensively of a similar problem affecting the poor in the USA, where the less affluent among us are routinely jailed.
The NY Times wrote extensively of a similar problem affecting the poor in the USA, where the less affluent among us are routinely jailed.
12
World's weakest and most visible minority, last to get recognized as fully human, easiest to abuse when your self esteem takes a hit. It's a race - women or children? Not sure if the world wouldn't just be better off with only a handful of men left as breeding stock; we don't need all that many more humans for sure. Maybe that's the thought that scares 'em.
7
I have to wonder what these same morality police and their co-religionists have to say about: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/14/world/middleeast/isis-enshrines-a-theo...®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
1
I know I know political correctness etc. but really, the Middle East is the home of Hypocrisy, Stupidity, Thuggery, Thievery, and Evil, much like Silicon Valley is the home of Apple, Google, Cisco, Facebook and HP. Of course not all Silicon Valley inhabitants work for these companies or like them but they define the Valley. individually, most Middle-Easterners look normal and many are actually normal. But when they interact in the public space, they become the worst species to have inflicted its presence on Planet Earth, unable to cooperate for the public good, unable to give, but bent on revendication, complaint and destruction. And among them, the worst offenders are the elites who travel to the West and have seen the rule of law and political systems that work, and how moslems are treated, i.e. infinitely better than in the countries where they are a majority, but who still claim that their country is somehow different and doesn't deserve a similar treatment for some allegedly religious or traditional reasons.
10
Doesn't the GOP police women's bodies? Isn't that the reason for vaginal probes, opposition to contraception? Men do this because they know how out of control they become over sex and because they have a sense of entitlement where women are concerned.
54
Generally, men just love this kind of stuff. Show 'em who's boss. This issue will trump (sorry) all others as far as most of them are concerned. Sex and domination are always the winners, for these males, in such backward places...and Texas. If not, why aren't they doing something about it?
50
I didn't realize they had Republicans over there. Ross Douthat and other American social conservatives must be delighted by this story.
75
Some Republicans claim that Muslims want to bring Sharia law in the US and our friend Todd claims that Republicans want to bring Sharia law into the US.
Fascinating that two incompatible, and crazy ideas can be held by different groups of people!
Fascinating that two incompatible, and crazy ideas can be held by different groups of people!
So if you state your opinion its free speech, but if a Republican states theirs its hate and intolerance.Right I forgot how it works.
2
Disappointing to me that this comment received so many recommendations. I am not, at all, a Republican, but I always find Mr. Douthat's columns to be thoughtful and well-written.
Isn't this what NYC wants to do with the Times Square "desnudas"?
22
The tendency to look at awful regimes and fixate on the consequences to.women alone is a slap in the face to men, who suffer in these places, and it is a tiresome slap as well. Fixating on women threatens to exclude half of humanity from the debate on how to address authoritarian regimes.
6
Women and girls are particularly vulnerable and lacking in power in large parts of the world. You may find it tiresome, but it's a continuing and worsening problem that warrants attention.
86
Well said. To point out that misandry and oppression of males exists is not to ignore or even diminish misogyny, but sadly that is too often the response. Further, the expectations laid upon males far more frequently have lethal outcomes, which seldom seems to be a factor in these discussions.
8
Spoken like a true male proponent of...equality. Something YOU have never had to worry about. If you could understand sexual politics, your opinion would be much different. IF you could understand it...
20
thank you.
it's true, sizing up the female's clothes to pledge our commitment of enjoining the good and forbidding the the wrong has become the only propaganda of Middle East's conservative governments, instead of trying to combat with the corruptions, embezzlement, nepotism, terrorism, and etc. Recently, a law has been ratified in Iran which permitted the driving police officers to write a penalty receipts of 30$ for woman who don't cover their heads with scarfs and they also receive 6 negative points. this is really ridiculous how the conservatives are trying to hide their lack of legitimacy.
it's true, sizing up the female's clothes to pledge our commitment of enjoining the good and forbidding the the wrong has become the only propaganda of Middle East's conservative governments, instead of trying to combat with the corruptions, embezzlement, nepotism, terrorism, and etc. Recently, a law has been ratified in Iran which permitted the driving police officers to write a penalty receipts of 30$ for woman who don't cover their heads with scarfs and they also receive 6 negative points. this is really ridiculous how the conservatives are trying to hide their lack of legitimacy.
77
Arab hypocrisy is alive and well. Condemning those whose only crime is to think or act different while at the same time stuffing their pockets with money, concentrating power, and letting their people rot in economic stagnation and cultural poverty. This is not new. I do however support the notion that every society can chose the level of tolerance they are able to have. No society is obligated to accept and encourage their women to dress too liberally and have casual sex, or for gay men to marry.
2
Why isn't society obligated to accept women who dress liberally, women who have casual sex, and gay men (and women) to marry. Being forced to conform to what others decree is what ISIS and the Taliban are all about. Haven't we in the US and Europe moved past that yet?
44
I agree with you, but where's the line? Can you walk down 5th avenue if you're a topless woman? No? Why not?
It's a matter of degree, even if you think that Muslim countries draw the line too high. We have a line, too. Why?
It's a matter of degree, even if you think that Muslim countries draw the line too high. We have a line, too. Why?
If a society wants to promote an idea of modesty that involves covering up, fine - as long as those rules apply equally to everyone. It's not OK for women to have fewer rights than men have, or gay people fewer rights than straight people have.
7
The Middle Eastern orthodox faith proclaiming heirs of Abraham-Jews, Christians and Muslim- all agree that women are much lesser divine creations of a virile manly god and his many male prophets. And they each have their own unique scripture and special prophets who chose and anointed them to rule over other men to back them up.
American Christian morality police consistently deny women the right to control their reproductive, sexual and health bodily, spiritual, mental and emotional choices.
This all about sectarian misogyny and power. Morality has nothing to do with any of it.
Imagine their horror when God proves to be a very voluptuous sexy seductive wise beautiful feminine woman.
American Christian morality police consistently deny women the right to control their reproductive, sexual and health bodily, spiritual, mental and emotional choices.
This all about sectarian misogyny and power. Morality has nothing to do with any of it.
Imagine their horror when God proves to be a very voluptuous sexy seductive wise beautiful feminine woman.
127
Clearly you don't know anything about Judaism if you include it in your brief diatribe. In Judaism, the woman is respected and revered, both by her husband and society in general.
17
And man, is he respected and revered, both by his wife and society in general?
9
Oh really??? and what about the morning prayer “Blessed are you, Lord, our God, ruler of the universe who has not created me a woman." Obviously recited by a man.
As one Senegalese author said (unfortunately I forget his name), Dieu est toujours de droite. And especially in religious practice concerning women.
As one Senegalese author said (unfortunately I forget his name), Dieu est toujours de droite. And especially in religious practice concerning women.
8
The Malleus Maleficarum of 1487 written by Dominican Monks helped to ferret out witches. The surest sign of a witch was when a monk experienced an erection. Find the witch, burn her and the erection would go away.
You can't ignore the sexual aspect of the misogyny described in this article. Power, sure, but sexual repression too.
You can't ignore the sexual aspect of the misogyny described in this article. Power, sure, but sexual repression too.
105
Ms Eltahawy is an outstanding spokesperson for both Egypt and 'real' Islam. I must disagree though when she calls Egypt's military dictatorship 'secular'. Egypt is now coming under the thrall of Saudi style wahhabism as it must to maintain Saudi support.
44
Let me throw my two cents and say that I disagree. Lots of people, including the so-called "Islamic Scholars" claim to know "real Islam." But upon further questioning, their sectarianism begins to shine. Again, I could speak volumes in this regard, but that would exceed the character limit of NY Times.
I also disagree about Egypt being a military dictatorship. The only active military person in that government is the Minister of Defense and commander of Armed Services. President El-Sisi resigned from the military prior to running for election as demanded by millions of Egyptians. Some tried to negate that because they saw him with his uniform during the opening of the new Suez Canal. But as a retired military, and current Commander in Chief I think he earned that right.
I also disagree about Egypt being a military dictatorship. The only active military person in that government is the Minister of Defense and commander of Armed Services. President El-Sisi resigned from the military prior to running for election as demanded by millions of Egyptians. Some tried to negate that because they saw him with his uniform during the opening of the new Suez Canal. But as a retired military, and current Commander in Chief I think he earned that right.
2
It's not about sex. Misogyny was never about sex. It's about power. As the Middle East falls apart, the people in power - men - can't afford to look powerless. It's the easy way out to keep up appearances. And like going to war without raising taxes, it doesn't cost those men a thing.
126
Couldn't have said it better.
1
It is the same everywhere. That does not justify it anywhere. It does put an extra light on it.
Egypt prosecutes belly dancers. When local elections loom, many of our local politicians prosecute stripper and their clubs with a brief vigor, that lasts as long as the campaign.
A prosecutor ambitious for higher office will do high profile attacks on the world's oldest profession too, "shocked" there is prostitution. A few have even been caught with prostitutes while shocked, and I don't believe we caught them all.
When intelligence agencies want to get someone, sex is a weapon of choice. There are many variations. They don't matter to the basic story.
"Morality" has always been used in this hypocritical fashion. Hypocrisy is despised, but also cynically treated as "what did you expect, grow up" all over the world.
Egypt is doing it again. They are shooting unarmed civilians kneeling in prayer, they sentenced the deposed elected President to death, they sentenced an entire crowd of hundreds to death after a half day group "trial." This is not the worst thing they are doing. It is not surprise. We do this too, even without all the killing (except for blacks by the police of course).
Mona, you're right, but grow up.
Egypt prosecutes belly dancers. When local elections loom, many of our local politicians prosecute stripper and their clubs with a brief vigor, that lasts as long as the campaign.
A prosecutor ambitious for higher office will do high profile attacks on the world's oldest profession too, "shocked" there is prostitution. A few have even been caught with prostitutes while shocked, and I don't believe we caught them all.
When intelligence agencies want to get someone, sex is a weapon of choice. There are many variations. They don't matter to the basic story.
"Morality" has always been used in this hypocritical fashion. Hypocrisy is despised, but also cynically treated as "what did you expect, grow up" all over the world.
Egypt is doing it again. They are shooting unarmed civilians kneeling in prayer, they sentenced the deposed elected President to death, they sentenced an entire crowd of hundreds to death after a half day group "trial." This is not the worst thing they are doing. It is not surprise. We do this too, even without all the killing (except for blacks by the police of course).
Mona, you're right, but grow up.
28
Grow up? As in accept things as they are because it's impossible to change? How is that a workable philosophy? Women would still be their husband's legal chattle in developed nations if everyone had shrugged their shoulders and said oh well, that's the way it's always been.
67
That is not what I wrote. None of it.
11
I'm always glad to see your comments and follow them with interest. However, this time you are wrong. We have to always speak up about oppression whenever or wherever it rears it's ugly head. There is an old saying I'm sure everyone has heard of by Pastor Martin Niemöller in 1945; "In Germany they came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up.”
45