He's taking Democrats with him too. Not only is he for bringing jobs back to the USA, he's also his own man. He refused to appear at the Kochs political forum which he called a "beg-a-thon." The NYT doesn't like that? How about his support for women's health? No credit for that either. He has cleverly used the issue of immigration to attract Tea Party conservatives who for the first seem to realize that they can't have everything they want but must prioritize what is most important to them. Unfortunately it's a lesson the shrill bluestockings of the NYT have yet to learn. By the force of his personality and his disdain for tiresome political correctness he has ignited the electorate as no one else has Democrat or Republican.
57
People who entered the country illegally are not 'immigrants.'
Are robbers who break into houses some new kind of 'guests?'!
These people never immigrated at all, they forced their way in against the desires of the people who lived there.
Are robbers who break into houses some new kind of 'guests?'!
These people never immigrated at all, they forced their way in against the desires of the people who lived there.
85
The GOP seems to have transformed Jesus' "Take all you have and give to the poor" into "Let the rich take all that you have."
24
Where have you all been the past dozen years or so? The GOP has already been at the bottom. Trump is just speaking more plainly what all too many Republicans believe and try to hide. -- And not only on immigration, but on so many other topics as well.
39
"Americans strongly support an earned path to citizenship for immigrants," If you are talking about legal immigrants, then yes, that is true. If you are talking about illegal aliens, then that is not true, not by a long shot. Americans were disgusted when Obama unilaterally, and illegally, granted amnesty to millions of illegal aliens. He blew up any chance of getting bipartisan immigration reform with that action. Obama poisoned the debate, not Trump. Trump is merely reflecting the views of a majority of Americans, who want illegal immigration stopped once and for all.
55
On the sort-of "plus" side, The Donald hasn't called Mexican immigrants terrorists or agents of the Islamic State. So perhaps we can put our guns down and talk about humane treatment of the Mexican immigrants who are an integral part of our communities.
14
The Donald=The George Wallace of the 2010s
19
It is beyond me that any Latino who went through the long extensive process of becoming a US citizen legally would support those who sneak across our borders and come into this country illegally. It's a disservice, disgrace, dishonor and actually discrimintes against the very people who do follow the law. If people come here illegally and you're going to let them stay without any repercussions, then why even bother to make anyone go through the legal process? Why even bother to have rules, regulations and laws if you're not going to enforce them? Just open our borders and let everyone come in. Let them do whatever they want and get whatever they can at the taxpayer's expense. That's kind of scary, isn't it? Why? Because we don't know what kind of people are coming into our country when they do it illegally. We don't know who they are, where they are and what their true purpose is. We definitely need a border and this is something that your typical self serving, do nothing politicians have failed to address for years. So, now you have an outsider like Donald Trump who finally comes up with a plan. His opponents seize the opportunity to criticize and pick everything apart. They say it's anti Latino, it's to harsh, it will cost a fortune, and as usual a nothing ever seems to get done. That's what politicians do .... alsolutely nothing. Donald Trump on the other hand, has a plan and that's a start!
60
Donald Trump is doing a national strip tease of what the GOP represents. But, if you want to see a true picture of the emperor wearing no clothes, watch the documentary called "You've Been Trumped." It's the film Trump hopes you'll never see; a heartrending look at his ruthless form of capitalism in a small Scottish community. In this case, a golf course and resort. Trump ultimately bulldozed the "losers" and their beloved way of life. This is a searing portrait of the true measure of this man.
16
Alog the unknown wilds of the upper west side of Manhatten Island, the huddled elites have no idea of anyone losing a job to Mr. Obama's 7 million immigrants, legal or otherwise.
But in the U.S. the statistics are that every job created this century has gone to an immigrant. I.e., for the American worker, he has been moving backwards since the Clinton administration because of all the slave-wage foreigners and big tech's fetish with replacing American workers with the shiny new imports still warm from their import from Asia.
The Democrats and comfortable-with-losing Washington, D.C. Republicans like McConnell and McCain are equally at faul for this travesty.
America will not be a real country until it can control its borders. THAT is why Trump is still gining folowers. Asking the graying Times to figure that oue out is like presenting rural 3rd world natives with Nissan Leafs or F1 cars and wishing them well.
But in the U.S. the statistics are that every job created this century has gone to an immigrant. I.e., for the American worker, he has been moving backwards since the Clinton administration because of all the slave-wage foreigners and big tech's fetish with replacing American workers with the shiny new imports still warm from their import from Asia.
The Democrats and comfortable-with-losing Washington, D.C. Republicans like McConnell and McCain are equally at faul for this travesty.
America will not be a real country until it can control its borders. THAT is why Trump is still gining folowers. Asking the graying Times to figure that oue out is like presenting rural 3rd world natives with Nissan Leafs or F1 cars and wishing them well.
50
This editorial is a perfect example of why this paper has lost all credibility and deteriorated into a left wing rag. To keep inferring that "immigrants" are being scapegoated by people not as "forward-thinking" as those running NYC and CA is just plain nonsense. Illegal immigrants are not the same as immigrants, and pretending that there is no difference does not make it so.
69
Solve world poverty in home countries. Do not bring world's poor to the United States. It would never work anyway.
42
I have a good idea! Let's take down the Statue of Liberty and erect a statue of Donald Trump! I'm sure he and his followers would love that! So much for the symbolism of America!
10
"its immense cruelty in seeking to reduce millions of people to poverty and hopelessness"
This statement is bias of the most extreme sort.
Are you suggesting that the original homelands of these immigrants are somehow inferior to the United States?
Why are you (not very subtly) suggesting that purely materialistic success is somehow superior to the rich cultural diversity of these nations?
Shame on you.
This statement is bias of the most extreme sort.
Are you suggesting that the original homelands of these immigrants are somehow inferior to the United States?
Why are you (not very subtly) suggesting that purely materialistic success is somehow superior to the rich cultural diversity of these nations?
Shame on you.
30
Blustering vacuous fool Trump provides the perfect foil for the clown car of supposed GOP candidates for the presidency in the debates. If these aspirants can't handle this bloviating buffoon, then they're not ready.
12
How many of those fantastic European or Scandinavian countries, bastions of liberal progressive life, confer birthright citizenship on anyone, regardless of the citizenship or legality of their parents? Based upon this article I would imagine they have all reached bottom and should no longer be used as examples of how bad America is.
38
Republicans welcomed the far right and ultra looney birds (sometimes the same thing) into the party years ago to win more votes. Well, those chickens and loony birds are certainly coming home to roost.
16
The left is losing its collective mind over Donald Trump. He's on HRC's heels and her future looks grim, and so too will their electoral future if he is to win the general and be an effective president. Same goes for the right. They have pandered and patronized themselves into a parody. Now the MIDDLE, on the other hand, we Independents, are loving it. Trump clearly can beat most of them to any punch. He has to play a little smarter with his words, for sure. But if he is successful in winning the nomination, I predict that he'll win the general against any Democratic candidate.
31
The irony is that Donald Trump, if indeed he is nominated by the
Republican party (yes, it could happen), will be defeated by the same demographic which sunk Mitt Romney's campaign. The more than twenty million Hispanic citizens will be energized to vote against Trump, and punish him and the Republican party for their years of hostility towards minorities, particularly Hispanics.
Republican party (yes, it could happen), will be defeated by the same demographic which sunk Mitt Romney's campaign. The more than twenty million Hispanic citizens will be energized to vote against Trump, and punish him and the Republican party for their years of hostility towards minorities, particularly Hispanics.
12
If Trump starts to do well in the polls for the southern and western states he will be the Republican candidate. The Democrats have to bring another candidate into the primaries because Sanders is too far to the left for me and although I am a Hillary supporte unless she comes out clean on the server situation will end up being a weakend candidate.
7
I am for immigration conditional on 2 points - no welfare benefits to non-citizens and time to become a citizen should be changed from 5 years to 12 years, like in Switzerland.
21
Two thugs beat up old Latino man, quoting Trump as their inspiration to the police. Trump's response:"My followers are passionate. I love it!" This is the horror we are facing now.
18
Trump shouts what the GOP has whispered for a generation.
21
Doesn't this menagerie of misfits justify the comment by Grover Norquist that it doesn't matter which Republican occupies the Oval Office as long as he--always a 'he'--has a pulse and can sign the pro-biz bills written by Special Interests, Inc.? Really, what is there to choose from here?
16
I watched Trump's Town Hall yesterday while on the elliptical in closed caption. He must have spent 5 minutes bragging to the crowd about attendance at his previous events. To paraphrase, "they put me in a 1000 person capacity room and it overflowed. So they moved it to a 5000 person capacity room and it overflowed." And on and on. Each time, the Town Hall roared its approval. Trump is a boor and a blowhard but angry frustrated Americans flock to him. It's Hitleresque.
12
The alternative 'high road' that the NYT seems to support is to open the gates to any invasion by citizens from other countries (aka illegal aliens) and give them a road to citizenship.
The last amnesty program in the 80s was sponsored by Ted Kennedy with the promise that if we just acknowledged the illegals then living in the US with an amnesty program, then that would end the invasion. That was pure bunkum and everyone should have known it would only increase new illegals to come in, expecting the same treatment. And so it has turned out.
How many of these mass amnesty programs will the NYT sponsor against the considered judgments of the majority of the country who are turning against this bunkum. Trump and the GOP candidates are merely tuning in to a feeling by the country that enough is enough. Make it legal entry or nothing.
The last amnesty program in the 80s was sponsored by Ted Kennedy with the promise that if we just acknowledged the illegals then living in the US with an amnesty program, then that would end the invasion. That was pure bunkum and everyone should have known it would only increase new illegals to come in, expecting the same treatment. And so it has turned out.
How many of these mass amnesty programs will the NYT sponsor against the considered judgments of the majority of the country who are turning against this bunkum. Trump and the GOP candidates are merely tuning in to a feeling by the country that enough is enough. Make it legal entry or nothing.
28
The GOP has already spent almost all the first year of their new majority trying to undo everything the president has done — essentially rolling back the clock. They are defending the isolation of Cuba against the wishes of most young Cuban-Americans. They are pushing to restore a family-destroying deportation policy, even though Obama’s de-emphasis on sending illegal immigrants home has already given him a 15-point boost among Latinos. They continue to push taking away health insurance for millions who never had it before. They insist that nothing can be done on climate change, despite an agreement on the table for the world’s two biggest polluters, the United States and China, to do something significant.
It raises the question of why this happening even though the popular vote in the last election was very much in favor of the Democrats, yet a GOP-dominated congress prevailed precipitating a deliberate paralysis of government, where a rump is holding the whole place to ransom. It doesn't really jibe with the notion of the US as a global leader with a bunch of gleeful stalwart obstructionists holding court whose sole aim is to thwart Obama's governance with political impunity because through deliberate GOP gerrymandering their seats are safe. This is an insidious form of plutocracy. It's a sinister development where elements of a ruinous anarchy are now emerging.
It raises the question of why this happening even though the popular vote in the last election was very much in favor of the Democrats, yet a GOP-dominated congress prevailed precipitating a deliberate paralysis of government, where a rump is holding the whole place to ransom. It doesn't really jibe with the notion of the US as a global leader with a bunch of gleeful stalwart obstructionists holding court whose sole aim is to thwart Obama's governance with political impunity because through deliberate GOP gerrymandering their seats are safe. This is an insidious form of plutocracy. It's a sinister development where elements of a ruinous anarchy are now emerging.
11
We let immigrants in with weak controls, if any, in place because we wanted their labor. We've let millions of them stay here and work for years: any of us could find a hundred undocumented immigrants in an hour. We've all benefited from their work, and they have been treated unfairly.
It's time to show ourselves a better country than this. Let's not have this go down in our history as a second wave of what is to some degree at least a form of slavery: we can pay you less, make you work longer hours, don't insure you, cut you out of all workers' benefits, and hold a threat over your heads every day.
Right-wing extremists seem to love nothing more than simplicity and certainly. Reality, not so much. We're obviously not even capable of deported 11 or 12 million people, even if we wanted to. But aren't we big deals when we bluster, moralize, and pontificate?
Yes, we need much better border controls, for multiple reasons.
But we also need to treat our present population, whether documented or undocumented/exploited, honorably and fairly.
It's time to show ourselves a better country than this. Let's not have this go down in our history as a second wave of what is to some degree at least a form of slavery: we can pay you less, make you work longer hours, don't insure you, cut you out of all workers' benefits, and hold a threat over your heads every day.
Right-wing extremists seem to love nothing more than simplicity and certainly. Reality, not so much. We're obviously not even capable of deported 11 or 12 million people, even if we wanted to. But aren't we big deals when we bluster, moralize, and pontificate?
Yes, we need much better border controls, for multiple reasons.
But we also need to treat our present population, whether documented or undocumented/exploited, honorably and fairly.
8
Personally, I think that the conservatives have come to the price to be paid for their long battle to silence critical reporting by journalists which has succeeded in one way or the other leaving us with a press that seeks to keep the powerful happy and the rest of the people entertained to keep ratings up. The totally biased and well spun views of the most interested parties are usually reported without any critical reporting as balanced reporting. The most sensational stories take up hours of news time to avoid missing critical audiences and leaving most news unreported to most people. This leaves those with power and influence able to function without the annoyance of press and public distracting their efforts, but it leaves most people without any substantial understanding of the issues like immigration or health care or international affairs, allowing politics to dominate all issues because the electorate is just not well informed. It has worked well for conservatives and given them the ability to dominate in a country where most people are more liberal socially and more conservative fiscally. But it has given Trump a constituency of ill informed people whose attitudes Trump is representing well.
7
So far, the debate on Trump's immigration proposal has been largely fact free. Fortunately, the Congressional Research Service recently published "Sanctuary Jurisdictions and Criminal Aliens: In Brief" which puts into some context law breaking by those in the United States unlawfully.
The CRS reports that as of the end of 2013 of the 214,000 people in our federal prisons 54,000 were non-citizens, almost all of which were here unlawfully. That is 25%. An additional 47,000 were in state prisons.
Trump's proposal to expel these criminals from the United States seems reasonable.
The CRS reports that as of the end of 2013 of the 214,000 people in our federal prisons 54,000 were non-citizens, almost all of which were here unlawfully. That is 25%. An additional 47,000 were in state prisons.
Trump's proposal to expel these criminals from the United States seems reasonable.
29
What I find so depressing is that the disgusting words that Trump speaks about immigrants are the very same words spoken by the rest of the Republican field. The only difference is that Trump says overtly what the others say covertly.
They are all so full of hatred.
They are all so full of hatred.
23
I see Donald Trump as this year's version of Ross Perot. Before Bill Clinton was elected in 1992, Ross Perot was at one time riding high in the polls. It sure looked like he was on his way to becoming President Perot. Donald Trump, like Ross Perot, has an impressive background in business but no experience in politics. Republicans may say they like him in the polls, but when the dust settles they tend to vote for experience. I really just don't see Donald Trump winning the nomination.
I think his rivals would be smart to let him enjoy the spotlight for the time being and use their own down time to hone their message. The worst thing they could do is attempt to match his rhetoric on immigration. Had Mitt Romney selected Marco Rubio for a running mate in 2012, he might arguable be the President today.
I think his rivals would be smart to let him enjoy the spotlight for the time being and use their own down time to hone their message. The worst thing they could do is attempt to match his rhetoric on immigration. Had Mitt Romney selected Marco Rubio for a running mate in 2012, he might arguable be the President today.
The reason other Republicans cannot stand up against Trump's irrational castigation of immigrants is that blaming immigrants serves their purposes also. It allows them to sidestep the real causes of income inequality that are fueling people's misplaced rage against immigration. By making immigrants the scapegoat, GOP candidates are allowed to avoid putting forward real solutions such as a higher minimum wage, stronger rights for workers to unionize, a closing of corporate tax loopholes and an increase in the taxes on wealthy corporations and individuals. They don't want any of that so immigrants provide a convenient distraction.
12
It is the 24 hour cable news that has created the Trump-a-thon so currently mesmerizing. As an Independent voter I would like to hear something of what the other Rep. candidates have to say, but with the non-stop coverage of Mr. Big-Shot there is no chance. These networks dissemble, and plead at how annoying Trump is, or appears, only to go ahead with yet more interviews and analysis because the Donald sells. Cable News has for many years been more about Entertainment than information for the public. Trump is a star and they can't get enough of him, whatever disclaimers they so earnestly offer up. This spotlighting of the frontrunner who in fact is a big fish in a small pond has distorted the political reality: it is extremely early days in a field of way too many people vying for an office that only one may have a shot at, and the voters deserve to see more than one of them, especially when the one on display is so full of himself and so lacking in solutions for the rest of us.
7
Perhaps the best solution for the USA is to deport the Republicans, the problem with this solution is no other country in the world would be crazy enough to accept them.
I mean the reality is there is no way to deport 11-million people. The cost to do so and the impact on the economy would bankrupt the country. Plus imagine the liberties we would all give up as the government tries to root out 11-million people. We all lose.
With an aging population, we need more immigration not less. Who are going to support paying into Social Security for the baby boomer. Who is going to work our farms, butcher livestock, build our homes and service our hotel industry - we know it won't be Republicans.
I mean the reality is there is no way to deport 11-million people. The cost to do so and the impact on the economy would bankrupt the country. Plus imagine the liberties we would all give up as the government tries to root out 11-million people. We all lose.
With an aging population, we need more immigration not less. Who are going to support paying into Social Security for the baby boomer. Who is going to work our farms, butcher livestock, build our homes and service our hotel industry - we know it won't be Republicans.
10
Honestly, it's hard to know where to begin. I'm reminded of Chauncey Gardner without the humanity. I'm reminded that it's hard to find the lowest common denominator in this tangled narcissistic tale. I watch Trump's town meeting, press conference and am reminded how the press is an enabler and the rest are lemmings. And he is a factually challenged buffoon who uses insults to skip substance.
It is at once entertaining and frightening. It is farce without the French and slamming doors. It is not a profile in courage for any of the players.
It is just sad commentary on a once principled party in the death throes.
It is the slow death of facts and a continuation of misplaced anger.
And in the end nothing gets discussed, nothing gets fixed and we are all the lesser for it.
It is at once entertaining and frightening. It is farce without the French and slamming doors. It is not a profile in courage for any of the players.
It is just sad commentary on a once principled party in the death throes.
It is the slow death of facts and a continuation of misplaced anger.
And in the end nothing gets discussed, nothing gets fixed and we are all the lesser for it.
11
Trump's rhetoric is over the top, and many of his policy proposals are either unrealistic or severely lacking in details. But give him this: he taking positions that were previously considered third rail, and the response has been overwhelmingly positive. And not just on the right.
The political class on both sides has been out of step with most Americans. Democratic politicians love the thought of importing new Democrats who will keep them in power. And crony capitalist Republicans (and Democrats) are in bed with the chamber of commerce which wants to keep open the flow of cheap labor.
But for the rest of us, we're being taken for a ride. And especially lower income Americans. Low-skilled illegal immigrants have been taking their jobs, and depressing their wage rates, and destroying their union leverage, and flooding their schools will kids who speak little English and have little prior education, for years. This isn't a right wing issue. This is a populist issue, which the ruling class needs to wake up to. The Donald is just the messenger.
The political class on both sides has been out of step with most Americans. Democratic politicians love the thought of importing new Democrats who will keep them in power. And crony capitalist Republicans (and Democrats) are in bed with the chamber of commerce which wants to keep open the flow of cheap labor.
But for the rest of us, we're being taken for a ride. And especially lower income Americans. Low-skilled illegal immigrants have been taking their jobs, and depressing their wage rates, and destroying their union leverage, and flooding their schools will kids who speak little English and have little prior education, for years. This isn't a right wing issue. This is a populist issue, which the ruling class needs to wake up to. The Donald is just the messenger.
30
In a way I am glad Trump is leading the Republican polls. He is not constrained by super PACs or special interests. He says what the Republicans are really thinking. He does not hide behind a smoke-screen of apparent congeniality, decorum and pretenses. With him what you see and hear is what you get. He is unafraid to bring forth issues which make polite circles uncomfortable. In all this Republican debacle ( even Democratic ) real issues are taking their rightful place ( not withstanding the narcissist drama ). In his own bombastic way he might be killing Citizens' United which is a very good thing. He may have inadvertently brought the two-party system work where the voters will make an informed decision and vote. Or maybe, I am just reading a lot in the unfolding drama!
11
That Donald Trump can still lead the GOP pack of presidential candidates after all his inordinately-covered, demeaning bluster says more about us than it does about The Donald.
I admit that we're looking at a three-ring circus act here, but in The Donald, we have a particularly malevolent and mutant clown and the crowd's just eating it up.
Meanwhile, much of the remaining world burns, if not literally, at least figuratively. reaping destruction beyond measure.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
I admit that we're looking at a three-ring circus act here, but in The Donald, we have a particularly malevolent and mutant clown and the crowd's just eating it up.
Meanwhile, much of the remaining world burns, if not literally, at least figuratively. reaping destruction beyond measure.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
8
At one point, a few months ago, I wanted Democrats to re-register as Republicans to guarantee that Trump would head a losing ticket. Now I'm far less sure that either he'll lose or that any positive candidate would win. The responses on this list are terrifying to anyone with the constitution as more than a myth: Trump's rants about "lawyers" who justify his game, no less than candidates like Jindal and Cruse and Rubio, show how far politics has descended and the outrageous stupidity of an unconstitutional rant. How, for example, Trump would "force" Mexico to build a wall, and avoid other walls in Canada, for just one example is - on its face - absurd, let alone racist and against 90% of the American immigration tradition.
8
There is a thread here more disturbing than Trump or anything Trump has said. Comment after comment in support and against immigration reform leave giant holes in any sort of comprehensive discussion of the issue. For example: Absent is any apparent realization that the "border" issue has almost as much to do with overstayed visas as illegal 'border jumping.' No mention of the fact that immigration enforcement by the first African American President has set records for deportation. Not one word about the political coward in chief, the Speaker of The House, who is solely responsible for denying a vote on comprehensive reform. There is a real need for comprehensive reform that is based on practical reality. But the people electing the people to write those reforms need to pay closer attention or it will never, ever, happen.
14
I was just playing with some numbers. Mr. Trump has stated that he wants to deport 11,000,000 immigrants back to Mexico. Let's assume he will use chartered buses: a modern tour bus holds about 54 people. So, it would take 203,703 buses to transport the people. A bus charters usually for about $800/day. Allowing an average of 3 days to get to Mexico and 3 days to deadhead back, would cost about $977,774,400.00. Close to a billion dollars when you figure in the driver's room and board along the way. Who's going to pay for this? Mr. Trump? After all, he keeps telling us that he is a rich man.
Or perhaps he would rather fly them. Using 757's with all coach seating would hold about 250 people. That means it would take 44,000 757's to do the job. I have no idea what it costs to rent a 757 to fly to Mexico City and back, but again, Mr. Trump might pay for it as he is, as he assures us, a very rich man.
Or - - - hmmm he has his own private 757 - - maybe - - - -
Or perhaps he would rather fly them. Using 757's with all coach seating would hold about 250 people. That means it would take 44,000 757's to do the job. I have no idea what it costs to rent a 757 to fly to Mexico City and back, but again, Mr. Trump might pay for it as he is, as he assures us, a very rich man.
Or - - - hmmm he has his own private 757 - - maybe - - - -
6
From the editorial:
"He would replace the Constitution’s guarantee of citizenship by birth with citizenship by bloodline and pedigree, leaving it to politicians and bureaucrats to decide what to do with millions of stateless children."
This shouldn't be hard to figure out. You return the baby to the parents and then send them back to their native country (assuming they're here illegally).
Birthright citizenship worked in 1868 to prevent the post Civil War disenfranchisement of blacks. It doesn't work today - unless you're trying to create an "anchor baby."
"He would replace the Constitution’s guarantee of citizenship by birth with citizenship by bloodline and pedigree, leaving it to politicians and bureaucrats to decide what to do with millions of stateless children."
This shouldn't be hard to figure out. You return the baby to the parents and then send them back to their native country (assuming they're here illegally).
Birthright citizenship worked in 1868 to prevent the post Civil War disenfranchisement of blacks. It doesn't work today - unless you're trying to create an "anchor baby."
17
For Hitler, it was the "Jewish problem." For Trump, it is the "Latino problem." Hitler did not run on an extermination platform; his campaign simply scapegoated Jews the same way Trump is scapegoating Latin American immigrants. This kind of politics can be surprisingly effective. Hitler won his election. Trump may too. The question for the rest of us should be: What will America become once we have endorsed his argument that purging some subgroup will make this a better place?
12
The GOP seems to want to add fascism to their brand. Who do they think will mow our lawns, and pick our vegetables and work in our slaughter houses and restaurants? If you think high school kids or all of those unemployed folks in Baltimore or Ferguson or Newark just need an opportunity then you haven't been paying attention. The price for everything will go way up as citizens demand higher pay for dirty jobs.... We don't need a fence...at any point the government can implement E-verify and that would solve the issue. But they don't and they won't because corporations love low wage workers who cannot easily move to another job. The SSA knows where the false workers are and they take in over $6 Billion a year. GOP may love to pick on a weak member of society but there are options to address this right now and no one is doing it. You have to wonder why.
9
My question for the people wanting to repeal birthright citizenship is; what gives you the right to be an American citizen?
16
The slaves that did the living, dying and suffering as my forefathers.
3
Birthright is in the Constitution. They can't repeal it without a Constitutional amendment or convention. Good luck Trump.
1
What low road? First, lets face it, Democrats want open borders because having no viable policies, more poor people who are even worse off is their best chance of election victory - this is shameless electioneering. But how about enforcing the law ... that's the HIGH ROAD. We have something like 20% unemployment among young, poor minorities that are US citizens. Let's handle that instead of importing ILLEGALLY more of them. I have rights, too. And I want the immigration laws enforced just like tax laws are enforced ... which I pay precisely. I want immigration laws obeyed precisely.
26
How many Americans can trace their lineage to legal immigrants? The Donald has found what he thinks is giving him the biggest ratings by his attacks on Mexicans and Mexican Americans. His views reflect his European roots. I have not heard him speak of any other group as rapists,, criminals, etc. Yet how many articles do I read of the Eastern Europeans & Russian criminal gang activities in this country? Yet he remains strangely quiet on that. Is it because of his own family's make-up, being formerly married to a Czech himself & having children that are first generation American? Isn't that rather self-serving?
11
Exposing Trump and the far right is the job of the media. That such viewpoints and political rhetoric could be followed and believed in polite company by millions of Americans itself is the symptom of failed media leading to a failed political system. The for-profit viewpoint-biased media landscape will end up destroying this our nation and our democracy, if we let it.
8
It is becoming more and more obvious that Republicans truly have the same ideas about immigration as Donald Trump does, including the xenophobic and cruel attitude toward immigrants.
9
New York has to take the blame for helping propagate this man....they gave him whatever he wanted. Upper west siders fought like crazy to stop his "Trump TV City" on the Hudson River shoreline.....but low and behold, the buildings were built....luxury apartments. Forget a public park where New Yorkers could enjoy the setting sun. The Bronx fought the Trump machine when he wanted to build a gulf course on that rare New York entity - land. But Trump prevailed - forget the people - and the sweetheart deal he has made regarding taxes and privileges is disgusting. He obviously felt he had control of NY because of his money, and now feels he has control of the United States because of his money. And he's having a great time doing it....
8
It appears, according to recent polls, about 15-20% of Democrats are following the GOP following Trump.
4
Great. This is working out just like we Hillary supporters planned all along, using The Donald as a Pied Piper to lead the Republicans to their doom. And all Hillary had to promise was to attend his next wedding.
5
A year from now the only weddings Hillary will attend are going to be held in The Big House featuring inmate humbers and guys yelling to others to open such-and-so electrically-operated security doors.
But at least when she looks up outside she'll see the familiar image of a man packing a rifle. I wonder if patrolling Hillary's cell block will be as bad an embarrassment among those government men as assignment to her Secret Service detail is on the outside?
But at least when she looks up outside she'll see the familiar image of a man packing a rifle. I wonder if patrolling Hillary's cell block will be as bad an embarrassment among those government men as assignment to her Secret Service detail is on the outside?
I am nor have I ever been a fan of Trump. However, it would be nice -- not to mention a sign of journalistic integrity -- if the Times put in even 50% of the effort it makes analyzing his words (and often trashing him personally) analyzing the other Republican candidates.
It is as if, as with Fox, Trump is the guy you love to hate. By becoming part of the circus, you get more viewers who lap up the soap opera. To see the Times reduce itself to that level is sad.
It is as if, as with Fox, Trump is the guy you love to hate. By becoming part of the circus, you get more viewers who lap up the soap opera. To see the Times reduce itself to that level is sad.
6
Once again the left denigrates people who do not follow their progressive views. Sure Trump goes over the top on some points, however the majority of Americans, especially the lower economic sectors who are most affected by ILLEGAL aliens taking jobs, schools with swarms of children that can’t speak English because their parents don’t speak English do and should support him.
Sure, they contribute something to the economy by paying sales taxes and maybe a few pay SS taxes on stolen SS numbers, drive around on bogus driver’s licenses (remember they can’t read English (signs)). However they are a much bigger drain on our educational and medical system and job stealing than they ever contribute.
NO other developed country has a birthright citizenship clause in their Constitution and I agree that “anchor” babies should not accrue citizenship merely by being dropped on US soil by ILLEGAL alien parents.
People who oppose ILLEGAL aliens in this country are not anti-immigrant. These people are NOT immigrants; they are invaders – whatever their motives might be. They hurt the sectors of our society that are most vulnerable. Their employers should be fined and jailed out of existence. They (individual nanny employers, farmers, agri-businesses, construction outfits, lawn care groups, etc.) are harming other, legal, law-abiding American citizens and residents.
Sure, they contribute something to the economy by paying sales taxes and maybe a few pay SS taxes on stolen SS numbers, drive around on bogus driver’s licenses (remember they can’t read English (signs)). However they are a much bigger drain on our educational and medical system and job stealing than they ever contribute.
NO other developed country has a birthright citizenship clause in their Constitution and I agree that “anchor” babies should not accrue citizenship merely by being dropped on US soil by ILLEGAL alien parents.
People who oppose ILLEGAL aliens in this country are not anti-immigrant. These people are NOT immigrants; they are invaders – whatever their motives might be. They hurt the sectors of our society that are most vulnerable. Their employers should be fined and jailed out of existence. They (individual nanny employers, farmers, agri-businesses, construction outfits, lawn care groups, etc.) are harming other, legal, law-abiding American citizens and residents.
19
Let’s see - middle class and below frustrated by economic conditions, scapegoating of a minority group, exhortations to act aggressively to purify the fatherland - ringing any bells?
13
Asking illegals to return home to Mexico where most of them are from is hardly the same thing as Nazism. All nations have borders and boundaries. Why are ours to be dictated by a group of foreign Latinos?
No adults in the Big Tent because it is no longer safe for them.
4
Since the Times is using the broad brush to paint all Republicans, I'll just say that all Democrats are corrupt and liars like Clinton and Obama.
7
Ivana Trump was not a US citizen when she gave birth to their three children.
13
My mother was not a US citizen when I was born. She didn't became a citizen until I was about 17. Was any of that my fault? I went to school, played Little League baseball and Pop Warner football, was active in all sorts of activities in high school. All before she became a citizen (and getting an award for having the highest score on the citizenship test required then).
So what would you have done? Deport me? To where? Before I had the chance to serve as a US Air Force officer or earn several college degrees or get a job, and a house, get married, pay taxes, etc.?
What's the matter with some of you? Many of those getting birthright citizenship will be more "American" than some kids whose families have been here forever.
Birthright citizenship is one of our nation's strengths, not a weakness or something to be "fixed.
So what would you have done? Deport me? To where? Before I had the chance to serve as a US Air Force officer or earn several college degrees or get a job, and a house, get married, pay taxes, etc.?
What's the matter with some of you? Many of those getting birthright citizenship will be more "American" than some kids whose families have been here forever.
Birthright citizenship is one of our nation's strengths, not a weakness or something to be "fixed.
15
You miss the point. Was your mother a legal "landed immigrant?" Then, of course you are entitled to birthright treatment. (Whether that should be one of categorizing you as, effectively, a landed immigrant rather than a citizen . . . both are fine positions.) If, however, she was an illegal alien, as defined in law, then you are not.
Now, should there be a policy for the treatment of such children once they reach "adult age" (which should be defined in law)? Absolutely. You, as an adult, educated and supposedly employed as an American, should not be expelled to what is, now, to you, a foreign country.
But, if your mother were here illegally and that was detected while you were still an infant -- an anchor baby -- that is a different matter. Then the US would be sending an illegal alien family back to their homeland.
Now, should there be a policy for the treatment of such children once they reach "adult age" (which should be defined in law)? Absolutely. You, as an adult, educated and supposedly employed as an American, should not be expelled to what is, now, to you, a foreign country.
But, if your mother were here illegally and that was detected while you were still an infant -- an anchor baby -- that is a different matter. Then the US would be sending an illegal alien family back to their homeland.
1
Thanks to Mr.Trump for exposing the Republican voters how racist and stupid they are. The FoxTv pundits are not hiding anymore . They came out openly as racist and anti-immigrants and specially anti-Hispanic. Now the minorities do not have to be confused whom to vote. The Republican party has only one issue in this presidential election and that is immigration. Education, economy, foreign policy, ISIS, pro-life etc are not important this year.
5
This diatribe – for that’s what it is – is so full of blatant misuse of language . . .
“He would expel 11 million immigrants . . .” No, he would expel illegal aliens. The term “immigrant” is defined in law. I am a legal immigrant, who then passed the citizenship exam, and have been a proud American for over half a century. I did so without breaking the law.
“He would . . . impose a national job-verification system . . .” It is, now, illegal to employ illegal aliens. He proposes that the law be given the teeth of enforcement.
“He would . . . shred America’s standing as an immigrant-welcoming nation.” We still welcome immigrants – not in the quantity we used to, America is close to full – but through lawful channels. Not by patting a law-breaking alien on the back: “Hey, you made it. Here’s your reward: A path to citizenship!”
“Because his plan is so naked - in its . . . immense cruelty in seeking to reduce millions of people to poverty and hopelessness . . .” They were in that condition before they broke into our country. That their expulsion may return them to that condition is not our responsibility. There are billions in the world in that condition; are we to invite them all in? The only difference is geography. That is not a reason to choose one group of the desperately needy over another.
“Americans strongly support an earned path to citizenship for immigrants.” Now that I agree with. But these folks are not immigrants!! They are illegal aliens!
“He would expel 11 million immigrants . . .” No, he would expel illegal aliens. The term “immigrant” is defined in law. I am a legal immigrant, who then passed the citizenship exam, and have been a proud American for over half a century. I did so without breaking the law.
“He would . . . impose a national job-verification system . . .” It is, now, illegal to employ illegal aliens. He proposes that the law be given the teeth of enforcement.
“He would . . . shred America’s standing as an immigrant-welcoming nation.” We still welcome immigrants – not in the quantity we used to, America is close to full – but through lawful channels. Not by patting a law-breaking alien on the back: “Hey, you made it. Here’s your reward: A path to citizenship!”
“Because his plan is so naked - in its . . . immense cruelty in seeking to reduce millions of people to poverty and hopelessness . . .” They were in that condition before they broke into our country. That their expulsion may return them to that condition is not our responsibility. There are billions in the world in that condition; are we to invite them all in? The only difference is geography. That is not a reason to choose one group of the desperately needy over another.
“Americans strongly support an earned path to citizenship for immigrants.” Now that I agree with. But these folks are not immigrants!! They are illegal aliens!
24
Please tell us how exactly you personally are intending to help Trump root out alll those 11 million people?
2
The NY Times outdoes itself. Besides referring to illegal immigrants as innocent Americans-in-waiting, you state that Trump would "impose a national job-verification system so that everyone, citizens too, would need federal permission to work." Wow, I didn't know that was a plan.
I was curious so I looked at his policy statement. He would use E-verify. I don't think that means I would need federal permission to work, it means I have the right to work here because I am a legal citizen.
I really am surprised that the Times takes such a stand against E-Verify. It does tell me who the Times is doing this for - and it's clearly not the innocent Americans in waiting. Iyt's the ones who are dying to exploit those innocent Americans in waiting by illegally hiring - and under-paying them.
I'm about ready to cancel my subscription.
I was curious so I looked at his policy statement. He would use E-verify. I don't think that means I would need federal permission to work, it means I have the right to work here because I am a legal citizen.
I really am surprised that the Times takes such a stand against E-Verify. It does tell me who the Times is doing this for - and it's clearly not the innocent Americans in waiting. Iyt's the ones who are dying to exploit those innocent Americans in waiting by illegally hiring - and under-paying them.
I'm about ready to cancel my subscription.
19
The objective of E-Verify only works if an employer doesn't know the person they're employing is undocumented. Most employers of undocumented immigrants likely know their legal status and willing go along putting false information forward or paying them under the table. Its why a lot of people don't support it, it doesn't work.
2
I am appalled by these self professed Christians ,candidates and supporters who want to deport children born in the USA who had no say in where they were born to a country and environment that is foreign to them.
Not only is it unconstitutional it is against the teachings of the Bible.
It follows that you cannot separate children from their parents.
We need a sensible discussion and feasible solutions on immigration, income inequality , our unfair tax code , infrastructure, penal code, voting rights,minimum wages, equal rights and pay for all,the global environment .
It seems we cannot have this discussion while this media circus around the Republican field, Mrs Clinton,s emails continues
Not only is it unconstitutional it is against the teachings of the Bible.
It follows that you cannot separate children from their parents.
We need a sensible discussion and feasible solutions on immigration, income inequality , our unfair tax code , infrastructure, penal code, voting rights,minimum wages, equal rights and pay for all,the global environment .
It seems we cannot have this discussion while this media circus around the Republican field, Mrs Clinton,s emails continues
9
It isn't "the bottom" to desire that employers use the e-verify program and that all state and local governments actually promote this program. It isn't "the bottom" to insist that a difficult-to-subvert border fence be built and sufficiently staffed.
It isn't "the bottom" to insist that overstaying a visa should be criminalized and those in flagrant violation be deported.
It isn't "the bottom" to require that all immigrants have thorough criminal background checks. This necessitates that the immigrant have a real, genuine identity, and that their home nation cooperates in providing actual records.
It isn't "the bottom" to deport illegals here already who come into contact with our criminal justice system. Not just for serious violent crimes, but for things like chronic shoplifting, welfare fraud, identity theft, possession of stolen property, drunk driving, driving without a license or proof of insurance, domestic violence, cruelty to animals, and so on.
It isn't "the bottom" to suggest that automatic citizenship by birthright is not really in the 14th amendment AT ALL. The anchor baby issue can be addressed in all its complexity by American legislatures and they have a perfect right and responsibility to do so.
Lastly, the NYT ed board by decreeing what policies and opinions they consider to be "at the bottom" implies that their own opinions are all "at the top." Oh yes, you folks are just the very pinnacle of moral sensibility. Why don't more of us bow down to you?
It isn't "the bottom" to insist that overstaying a visa should be criminalized and those in flagrant violation be deported.
It isn't "the bottom" to require that all immigrants have thorough criminal background checks. This necessitates that the immigrant have a real, genuine identity, and that their home nation cooperates in providing actual records.
It isn't "the bottom" to deport illegals here already who come into contact with our criminal justice system. Not just for serious violent crimes, but for things like chronic shoplifting, welfare fraud, identity theft, possession of stolen property, drunk driving, driving without a license or proof of insurance, domestic violence, cruelty to animals, and so on.
It isn't "the bottom" to suggest that automatic citizenship by birthright is not really in the 14th amendment AT ALL. The anchor baby issue can be addressed in all its complexity by American legislatures and they have a perfect right and responsibility to do so.
Lastly, the NYT ed board by decreeing what policies and opinions they consider to be "at the bottom" implies that their own opinions are all "at the top." Oh yes, you folks are just the very pinnacle of moral sensibility. Why don't more of us bow down to you?
24
Are you saying that automatic citizenship by birthright is not in the 14th amendment? The amendment begins with the following sentence:
"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside."
Seems pretty clear.
"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside."
Seems pretty clear.
3
I am so sick and tired of the NYTimes and many 'progressives' attempting to define illegal immigration as anything other than illegal. No country in the world has open borders, and most mandate that those immigrating have money, have skills, and have a job before they can enter. Why? Because a country's first responsibility is to it's citizens.
Any individual or group (non-profits, etc.) that supports illegal immigration is not recognizing or respecting the laws of this nation. The NYTimes says it's cruel to stop illegal immigrants because they are not happy/safe/economically stable/etc. in their own country. Well, we may as well prepare for millions and billions to come as most are not too happy these days in their own country (China, Vietnam, Africa, middle east, Russia, South America, Mexico, and yes, even Europe).
So is it the stand of this paper that the US should eliminate it's borders and just support all who are poor; telling us that if we don't like that approach we are racist?! Does the NYTimes even understand our immigration laws? They were/are designed for diversity. We're not seeing that with the influx of illegal Mexicans. Quite the opposite. So if you believe in diversification, but want that across countries you are racist?
No one with a brain takes Trump seriously as the next president, but the fact that he is successfully rallying millions is telling - seems like most want a stand against illegal immigrants and most are sick of their rhetoric.
Any individual or group (non-profits, etc.) that supports illegal immigration is not recognizing or respecting the laws of this nation. The NYTimes says it's cruel to stop illegal immigrants because they are not happy/safe/economically stable/etc. in their own country. Well, we may as well prepare for millions and billions to come as most are not too happy these days in their own country (China, Vietnam, Africa, middle east, Russia, South America, Mexico, and yes, even Europe).
So is it the stand of this paper that the US should eliminate it's borders and just support all who are poor; telling us that if we don't like that approach we are racist?! Does the NYTimes even understand our immigration laws? They were/are designed for diversity. We're not seeing that with the influx of illegal Mexicans. Quite the opposite. So if you believe in diversification, but want that across countries you are racist?
No one with a brain takes Trump seriously as the next president, but the fact that he is successfully rallying millions is telling - seems like most want a stand against illegal immigrants and most are sick of their rhetoric.
19
Donald Trump’s Immigration policy pronouncements appeal to the baser instincts and feelings of many who compose the base of the Republican Party. We’ve know this for nearly a decade. We witnessed the fervent backlash from the right wing of the Republican Party during the Bush 43 Administration against any attempt to reform immigration policy.
Furthermore, President Obama - having a Kenyan father and Luo last name - presented the extremists in the Republican Party with a vehicle for expressing their anti-immigrant, racist and xenophobic feelings through questioning Mr. Obama’s right to be President. (Note, that the so called “birthers” always failed to mention that Mr. Obama’s mother was an American citizen and Mr. Obama would be considered a “natural born citizen” even if he had been born in Kenya … which he was not. Just ask Ted Cruz.)
Mr. Trump is giving voice to the deep feelings of many if not most Republicans. Feelings that have proven to exist time and again. Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio know two things … that in regards to immigration and immigrants, especially those from Mexico, Mr. Trump expresses views that are deeply rooted for Republicans and that expressing a view contrary to this deeply held view could mean the end of your career as a politician in the Republican Party. And I don’t believe that Mr. Bush or Mr. Rubio are considering political suicide as Republican politicians.
Furthermore, President Obama - having a Kenyan father and Luo last name - presented the extremists in the Republican Party with a vehicle for expressing their anti-immigrant, racist and xenophobic feelings through questioning Mr. Obama’s right to be President. (Note, that the so called “birthers” always failed to mention that Mr. Obama’s mother was an American citizen and Mr. Obama would be considered a “natural born citizen” even if he had been born in Kenya … which he was not. Just ask Ted Cruz.)
Mr. Trump is giving voice to the deep feelings of many if not most Republicans. Feelings that have proven to exist time and again. Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio know two things … that in regards to immigration and immigrants, especially those from Mexico, Mr. Trump expresses views that are deeply rooted for Republicans and that expressing a view contrary to this deeply held view could mean the end of your career as a politician in the Republican Party. And I don’t believe that Mr. Bush or Mr. Rubio are considering political suicide as Republican politicians.
9
So the NYT thinks wanting to enforce immigration law is a race to the bottom. Maybe the NYT should advocate for changing the law instead of demonizing those who wish to enforce it.
20
I'll be interested in reading what The Times has to say about President Donald Trump in January 2017. Will it offer its congratulations? This editorial board can write what it wants, but the sheer volume of people who disagree with its positions should give it pause.
15
Let's see, a bully terrorizes the schoolyard. He screams at the "new" kids because they look and speak different, and because they're new.
The school accepts all kids that live in the area, but now the bully just wants kids whose families he knows. If they're from somewhere else they need to be kicked out.
A bunch of other kids, call them the cowards, run to line up behind the bully and parrot his every move because they're afraid that other kids won't like them
Childish.
It appears to be the kind of America that the Republican Party wants to impose on all kids, everywhere.
The school accepts all kids that live in the area, but now the bully just wants kids whose families he knows. If they're from somewhere else they need to be kicked out.
A bunch of other kids, call them the cowards, run to line up behind the bully and parrot his every move because they're afraid that other kids won't like them
Childish.
It appears to be the kind of America that the Republican Party wants to impose on all kids, everywhere.
6
What would Jesus do? The answer is different on the right and the left but only one side is correct.
5
Religion should not be the basis of public policy.
Common sense should.
Common sense should.
Jesus, presumably, would want people to obey the law.
Hey people! If you want to know what can happen with U.S. presidential elections, think Reagan and Dubya. Most importantly, both won reelection. So, how does this happen when the demographics would seem to be against the Repubs. for POTUS elections?
It starts with observing that federal, state, and local, political power in this country is about evenly divided left and right. It simply gets translated somehow into a win come election day. In other words, if you win your party's candidacy for the POTUS election, you can win in the general election.
That means that Trump could be the next POTUS. Of course, it seems impossible now. So did Dubya's chances at one point. European commentators could not believe that someone so crude could become POTUS.
We all need to prepare ourselves a little for this. Who's running on the Dem. side? How strong a candidate will they be? Barrack Obama, Bill Clinton, Jack Kennedy, these are the kinds of strong candidates that the Dems. have fielded in the past. How does the present compare?
What I am saying is, Repubs. can win with a Nixon, Reagan, Bush I and II if the Dems. are not going with their strength. That appears to have been: young and smart and charismatic.
So, do not be surprised.
It starts with observing that federal, state, and local, political power in this country is about evenly divided left and right. It simply gets translated somehow into a win come election day. In other words, if you win your party's candidacy for the POTUS election, you can win in the general election.
That means that Trump could be the next POTUS. Of course, it seems impossible now. So did Dubya's chances at one point. European commentators could not believe that someone so crude could become POTUS.
We all need to prepare ourselves a little for this. Who's running on the Dem. side? How strong a candidate will they be? Barrack Obama, Bill Clinton, Jack Kennedy, these are the kinds of strong candidates that the Dems. have fielded in the past. How does the present compare?
What I am saying is, Repubs. can win with a Nixon, Reagan, Bush I and II if the Dems. are not going with their strength. That appears to have been: young and smart and charismatic.
So, do not be surprised.
3
"it almost goes without saying — dismantle the economy"
Almost, but not quite. Please explain how ending illegal immigration would dismantle the economy.
Almost, but not quite. Please explain how ending illegal immigration would dismantle the economy.
15
If walls don't work, why does the Whitehouse have one?
10
Oh, I don't know.
First of all, it's not a wall; it's a fence.
Next, it's not 2,000 miles long.
Third, the human security required inside and out is manageable.
If you're going to support the 2,000 mile wall idea, physical security of the white house really isn't a good start.
First of all, it's not a wall; it's a fence.
Next, it's not 2,000 miles long.
Third, the human security required inside and out is manageable.
If you're going to support the 2,000 mile wall idea, physical security of the white house really isn't a good start.
2
US immigration policy is both ineffective and inconsistent, unless one believes the US should generally admit stowaways and people who entered with visas then stayed after their lapse.
Even Trump can easily exploit such glaring flaws.
As much as he offends most, Trump has found a concern that really resonates with most Americans, if not with NY Times's editors or with all the Times's superior readers. Now Trumps can hog the spotlight longer.
Even Trump can easily exploit such glaring flaws.
As much as he offends most, Trump has found a concern that really resonates with most Americans, if not with NY Times's editors or with all the Times's superior readers. Now Trumps can hog the spotlight longer.
16
.To get in I had to apply for a visa at the London embassy.
I had to prove I was worthy
1.- Did I have money to support myself and not be dependent on welfare/taxpayer?
2. Was I intelligent enough to warrant coming to America?
3. Was I going to take a job an American could do ? If not what could I offer America ?
4. Did I have acriminal record ?
etc.
Then I HAD TO WAIT FOR APPROVAL
-- Trump is right -- build the wall
THEN GET IN LINE . There will be a gate -only if you are worthy .
I had to prove I was worthy
1.- Did I have money to support myself and not be dependent on welfare/taxpayer?
2. Was I intelligent enough to warrant coming to America?
3. Was I going to take a job an American could do ? If not what could I offer America ?
4. Did I have acriminal record ?
etc.
Then I HAD TO WAIT FOR APPROVAL
-- Trump is right -- build the wall
THEN GET IN LINE . There will be a gate -only if you are worthy .
12
No, you didn't have to prove you were worthy or intelligent.
If you were applying for a tourist visa, yes, you did have to substantiate that you had money and were not coming to work.
If you were applying for a work visa, then you had to meet a host of other requirements.
And, yes, there must be a rational, sensible approach to immigration - legal an illegal. But building a 2,000 mile wall and deporting 11 million people (including 4 million US citizens) is not the way to start.
If you were applying for a tourist visa, yes, you did have to substantiate that you had money and were not coming to work.
If you were applying for a work visa, then you had to meet a host of other requirements.
And, yes, there must be a rational, sensible approach to immigration - legal an illegal. But building a 2,000 mile wall and deporting 11 million people (including 4 million US citizens) is not the way to start.
2
The tone and tenor of this editorial informs me that the Times has reached the disquieting conclusion – to it – that Donald Trump is very likely to be the next President of the United
States.
While not a complete Donald man myself, I am nonetheless extremely grateful to him for helping inform the Times that Americans still believe this is the greatest country that ever was or will be; do not hate rich people; distrust Iran; support Israel; want strict controls put on illegal immigration; are against looting and arson in our cities no matter what the cause may be; and want the next President to be all about jobs, jobs and more jobs.
And I look forward with great anticipation to standing with him on January 20, 2017 at the docks in New York City where the luxury ocean liners are berthed, wrapped in the flag, where we will be waving goodbye to the editors and columnists of the Times as they depart for the politically correct climes of Sweden, Denmark and Norway.
States.
While not a complete Donald man myself, I am nonetheless extremely grateful to him for helping inform the Times that Americans still believe this is the greatest country that ever was or will be; do not hate rich people; distrust Iran; support Israel; want strict controls put on illegal immigration; are against looting and arson in our cities no matter what the cause may be; and want the next President to be all about jobs, jobs and more jobs.
And I look forward with great anticipation to standing with him on January 20, 2017 at the docks in New York City where the luxury ocean liners are berthed, wrapped in the flag, where we will be waving goodbye to the editors and columnists of the Times as they depart for the politically correct climes of Sweden, Denmark and Norway.
6
Perhaps all of us non-anchor babies should not only carry a copy of our own birth certificate, but those of our parents, as well. Should we get those documents now? I wonder what the effect of that would be on every town hall across the country...
4
Wow! Isn't one of Donald Trump's wives (ex) an immigrant (Czech)? Didn't she marry one of her husbands for citizenship? (the Donald) How does the Donald stand on marriages for US citizenship? Are the children of these unions legal? Like his. Doesn't sound right to me. Or as that old saying goes - Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks...I'd expect nothing more or less from the man who would do anything for ratings. The Donald (isn't that some foreign affectation) should look in the mirror....
5
The people have seen their incomes decline for the past 35 years. They are angry and they need a scapegoat. The GOP can't point to the greed of corporate America to explain why they earn so little in the richest country in the world. Much easier to point the finger at poor people on welfare and people who come here to work.
11
"...the faux-populist billionaire who says immigrants are the reason this country is weak and frightened..."
So why did you leave out the word "illegal"?? That is after all, what Trump speaks about...those immigrants that are here illegally or who step over the border and have their child delivered here.
And why will you not discuss those immigrants here illegally that do commit crimes?? Thousands and thousands of crimes have been committed by people here illegally...that is a fact. Doesn't matter who commits more crime: natural born, first generation, second, and so on...the fact that thousands of crimes have been committed by people here illegally are thousands too many!!!
So why did you leave out the word "illegal"?? That is after all, what Trump speaks about...those immigrants that are here illegally or who step over the border and have their child delivered here.
And why will you not discuss those immigrants here illegally that do commit crimes?? Thousands and thousands of crimes have been committed by people here illegally...that is a fact. Doesn't matter who commits more crime: natural born, first generation, second, and so on...the fact that thousands of crimes have been committed by people here illegally are thousands too many!!!
11
Relieved from the niceties of political doublespeak and pap it turns out the GOP base is hungry for the angry politics of white nationalism. Nothing good can come of it.
11
It's very easy to sit in New York City and preach about such things as the supposed morality of expelling illegal immigrants when the problem has little effect on you. So lets have an honest discussion about morality. Tell me all about the morality of watching meat packing go from being a high-paid job to a low-wage job? What about the morality of watching somebody who broke our laws to enter this country being granted citizenship or residency while watching somebody from the same country spend thousands because they followed our laws? And strictly speaking, how do I take somebody seriously about wanting to join our social contract when their first act is breaking it?
19
We reap what we sow. The country has spent so many years valuing celebrity over intelligence that we should scarcely be surprised when shallow chameleons like the GOP slate emerge as front-runners. We like stupidity. We got stupidity.
12
In Jungian terms, Donald Trump perfectly constellates the shadow archetype of the Republican Party, and that is why his campaign has been so successful. That shadow consists of unbridled greed, racism, misogyny, exceptionalism, nativism, ignorance, and grandiosity. We just have to hope that the U.S. as a whole is still healthy and decent enough to reject him and everything he stands for.
10
JLM - Do you support both open borders and a big entitlement state? If you do, and you think the two can co-exist, you are the one being fooled.
Further proof that the current manifestation of the Republican Party is incapable of adaptation and/or change: despite losing in 2012 in part because of Romney's "self-deportation" stance, they are already moving farther right and taking early steps to ensure that no Hispanics vote for them, even if their candidate is Marco Rubio.
7
Maybe unlimited immigration,massive social spending,crowding and traffic are what Americans want.We sure are experiencing it now,in So California.Maybe you will enjoy,in the future.
21
I really don't see how there was ever much of a difference between the content of what Trump says and the rest of the Republicans. What is disheartening is to see that whenever any hater, spewing essentially anti-American values like Trump how many others remain silent. I guess we don't have to wonder how Hitler came to power any more.
7
Most agrees that the illegal immigrants seeking to come here are generally poor, often uneducated and have more children on average than US citizens.
There is difficulty in funding social security, Medicare and Medicaid benefits. Yet we stand ready to admit 11 plus million illegal aliens; further diminishing these programs viability.
Our environment is under siege yet the impacts of a growing population on scarcity of water, fuel, etc. and the resulting carbon emissions and other toxic waste is off limits.
Spanish has become a standard secondary language as large sectors of our population do not speak English and yet a discussion of the cost to society is not heard.
Robots and AI are supplanting people all the time, it is one of the biggest threats to workers and yet we are told we need these immigrants to do jobs that otherwise can’t be done. Baloney.
There is nothing dishonorable in recognizing that there may be differences between groups and wanting to retain our composition. We recognize that there are good and bad, brilliant and idiots, among all groups. That individuals must be judged as individuals. Read N. Wades “A Troublesome Inheritance”.
The ‘times; in this editorial shows themselves to be hypocritical elitist. Dismissive of legitimate concerns of average working class people they ask the struggling workers to work longer and longer hours and years to support their elitist lifestyle with a clear conscience.
There is difficulty in funding social security, Medicare and Medicaid benefits. Yet we stand ready to admit 11 plus million illegal aliens; further diminishing these programs viability.
Our environment is under siege yet the impacts of a growing population on scarcity of water, fuel, etc. and the resulting carbon emissions and other toxic waste is off limits.
Spanish has become a standard secondary language as large sectors of our population do not speak English and yet a discussion of the cost to society is not heard.
Robots and AI are supplanting people all the time, it is one of the biggest threats to workers and yet we are told we need these immigrants to do jobs that otherwise can’t be done. Baloney.
There is nothing dishonorable in recognizing that there may be differences between groups and wanting to retain our composition. We recognize that there are good and bad, brilliant and idiots, among all groups. That individuals must be judged as individuals. Read N. Wades “A Troublesome Inheritance”.
The ‘times; in this editorial shows themselves to be hypocritical elitist. Dismissive of legitimate concerns of average working class people they ask the struggling workers to work longer and longer hours and years to support their elitist lifestyle with a clear conscience.
14
As usual, the education-hating Republicans would never stop to consider possible the precedents of such movement. The financial and human cost of moving 11 million people out of the U.S. would be staggering. But this is for the "good" of real Americans, especially those of Northern European descent, who won’t have to worry about dealing with rapist-murderer-job stealers anymore. This means a return to the days of 1950s America when everyone (including women-folk) knew their place.
But there is a strikingly similar precedent. Over 11 million people were uprooted throughout India in 1946-47 when West Pakistan and East Pakistan (later Bangladesh) were created. Untold millions of dollars of personal wealth were lost as Hindus moved to India and Moslems to the Pakistans; hundreds of thousands in each group were killed or injured.
So what the heck? Sure, many of the brown-skinned brothers and sisters caught in the anti-Mexican net will be from other South American countries, but they too can do their bit and pitch in to build The Great Wall of Trump on their way out!
While this is not considered a religious putsch by the anti-Mexicans (although perhaps anti-Catholic), it has eerie similarities to the horrific mass movement of the powerless to make life easier for the powerful throughout human history. But since the vast majority Republicans love saying prayers, they can offer the English equivalent of “Vaya Con Dios!”
But there is a strikingly similar precedent. Over 11 million people were uprooted throughout India in 1946-47 when West Pakistan and East Pakistan (later Bangladesh) were created. Untold millions of dollars of personal wealth were lost as Hindus moved to India and Moslems to the Pakistans; hundreds of thousands in each group were killed or injured.
So what the heck? Sure, many of the brown-skinned brothers and sisters caught in the anti-Mexican net will be from other South American countries, but they too can do their bit and pitch in to build The Great Wall of Trump on their way out!
While this is not considered a religious putsch by the anti-Mexicans (although perhaps anti-Catholic), it has eerie similarities to the horrific mass movement of the powerless to make life easier for the powerful throughout human history. But since the vast majority Republicans love saying prayers, they can offer the English equivalent of “Vaya Con Dios!”
4
What we see in Trump are the makings of a national disaster. He is laughable now, a representative of a crazy fringe. But history has shown that such people often rise to power with devastating consequences. The fringe is growing: the far right, racist, violent, ignorant Tea Party, government conspiracy black helicopter crowd is gaining power, and has found the scapegoat such groups always seek, in immigrants.
5
Can anyone enlighten me about the birthright issue? I'd like to know what are the good consequences of allowing pregnant women to come to the U.S. just to give birth, and give their babies dual citizenship? I think the Circumstances of the birth should determine citizenship. Why would we want a bunch of Chinese, or Mexican, or any other nationals, able to vote in our elections, or take advantage of the social security system? Would they be required to pay taxes? I don't get it.
14
Uh, we don't. It's why we keep this "anchor babies," claim a myth, and why non-citizens don't get Social Security bennies.
Apologies, though, for not letting pregnant women and kids die in our streets. It's some sort of namby-pamby moral and even Christian thing that gets in the way.
Apologies, though, for not letting pregnant women and kids die in our streets. It's some sort of namby-pamby moral and even Christian thing that gets in the way.
1
Throughout the history of our country, Conservatives have always been on the wrong side of social issues: not occasionally, not often, but always. Any time that civil liberties or personal freedoms have been expanded or extended, it has always been the Conservative elements of the country who stood in stark opposition. Any time that civil liberty or personal freedom has suffered a restriction or set back, it has always been by the pens of Conservative legislators. Suffrage, interracial marriage, gender equality, gay rights, school integration, reproductive rights, and religious freedoms. The Conservative portions of our country have come together on court house steps with hateful signage and rallied against every single one of these things. Every new liberty has been attained only against the torrential flow of Conservative public opinion.
9
14th Amendment:
"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."
The precise purpose of the 14th amendment was to stop southern states from denying citizenship to newly freed slaves.
Senator Jacob Howard, co-author of the citizenship clause of the 14th Amendment, stated in 1866, "Every Person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons." Sen. Howard further explained that “only thru expatriation, which could be accomplished thru law alone, and not thru any immigrant acting on his own outside the law—and certainly not by any act of birth alone—could an alien become a citizen.”
Senator Howard also said in May, 1868 that the "Constitution as now amended, forever withholds the right of citizenship in the case of accidental birth of a child belonging to foreign parents within the limits of the country."
"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."
The precise purpose of the 14th amendment was to stop southern states from denying citizenship to newly freed slaves.
Senator Jacob Howard, co-author of the citizenship clause of the 14th Amendment, stated in 1866, "Every Person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons." Sen. Howard further explained that “only thru expatriation, which could be accomplished thru law alone, and not thru any immigrant acting on his own outside the law—and certainly not by any act of birth alone—could an alien become a citizen.”
Senator Howard also said in May, 1868 that the "Constitution as now amended, forever withholds the right of citizenship in the case of accidental birth of a child belonging to foreign parents within the limits of the country."
12
As disgusting and sad as it is, America finally seems to be dealing with the issue of immigration, courtesy of Donald Trump. I have nothing but confidence the majority of American people will take a long, hard look at themselves, acknowledge their misguided fear and remember this is a land that has always embraced and celebrated its immigrant brothers and sisters. Maybe, just maybe, we will finally deal with this question as the leader of the free world. One can only hope 'The Donald' will make some outrageous, hateful, self-involved statements about racism, income equality and poverty in order to make the 2016 campaign for the White House about principles rather than personalities.
1
Could you maybe list what The Donald's "principles," actually are?
1
In proclaiming that illegal immigrants are good for the country, the editorial boards ignores the fact that we can recruit all the legal immigrants we want by simply increasing legal immigration quotas. Millions of legal immigrants are waiting in line. We don't need illegal immigrants to stimulate the economy or to sustain population levels. The board's assertion that deporting illegal immigrants puts America's image as an immigrant-welcoming country at risk is absurd. The United States accepts about one million permanent legal immigrants per year, more than the other nations of the world combined.
23
The tone of recent comments has changed considerably. Take notice.
Trump has latched onto the #1 underground issue, simmering for some time now, with the electorate for a great variety of reasons.
Take notice of the NYT lack of addressing the issue with the term "illegal".
Can there be any other reason for the fact that he currently leads in the polls.
This issue crosses all political, economic, and social lines.
The world cauldron of disorder as it relates to the movement of human beings throughout the world is a central issue of the time.
Thus one of the most important issues, we as a country have to consider today, is that of immigration per se.
Now we refer to it solely as a "reform" issue.
"Reform" how and in what way is not clear. No well defined objective is clearly explained or put forward in any meaningful way by any entity.
At the risk of being viewed as politically incorrect, I conclude that for the most part the great majority of us have come to the following mostly unexpressed conclusion and/or opinion.
Further immigration into this country must come to an end - in spite of the lamp lifted "beside the golden door", traditionally and rightly so in times past.
Therein is the broad theme and today's necessary strategic goal.
The tactical details well be many and varied, but they can no longer be ignored.
For to do so, given world events in a steadily shrinking world, will be at our own great disadvantage, if not at a peril as yet clearly undefined.
Trump has latched onto the #1 underground issue, simmering for some time now, with the electorate for a great variety of reasons.
Take notice of the NYT lack of addressing the issue with the term "illegal".
Can there be any other reason for the fact that he currently leads in the polls.
This issue crosses all political, economic, and social lines.
The world cauldron of disorder as it relates to the movement of human beings throughout the world is a central issue of the time.
Thus one of the most important issues, we as a country have to consider today, is that of immigration per se.
Now we refer to it solely as a "reform" issue.
"Reform" how and in what way is not clear. No well defined objective is clearly explained or put forward in any meaningful way by any entity.
At the risk of being viewed as politically incorrect, I conclude that for the most part the great majority of us have come to the following mostly unexpressed conclusion and/or opinion.
Further immigration into this country must come to an end - in spite of the lamp lifted "beside the golden door", traditionally and rightly so in times past.
Therein is the broad theme and today's necessary strategic goal.
The tactical details well be many and varied, but they can no longer be ignored.
For to do so, given world events in a steadily shrinking world, will be at our own great disadvantage, if not at a peril as yet clearly undefined.
11
Actually most Americans do not support a path to citizenship and that is what is helping Trump lead the pack. Even a lot of democrats do not support giving illegal immigrants citizenship. There are very few people in this country that understand economics unfortuntely and this platform is going to leap him ahead. Hillary has no chance at winning at this point now that the FBI is investingating her. There is no way independents will vote for her and she is even losing supporters of her own party. I just don't know who the democrats can run and win at this point? Its too early to tell who the republican nominee will be but I think they have an easy path to the White House. If it is Trump then he has a slam dunk.
20
Sorry, but every reputable poll result has a majority of the American people supporting a path to citizenship.
2
The fact: Hillary Clinton beats every Republican candidate, including Trump, imps recent polls. Your prediction is baseless.
2
Run, Joe, run.
Someone has to put some sanity into this campaign, and you are the best one to do it.
Someone has to put some sanity into this campaign, and you are the best one to do it.
2
This article states that it is a well known fact that most Americans strongly support keeping the illegal immigrants in the US.
While Trump is clearly out of hand, the amount of support that he and others who are advocating that the illegal immigrants leave the US and then get to the back of the immigration line are getting demonstrate that the "well known fact" that most Americans support keeping illegal immigrants in the US is likely not a fact.
I would suggest that the Times investigate the data collection process that produced this "well known fact".
While Trump is clearly out of hand, the amount of support that he and others who are advocating that the illegal immigrants leave the US and then get to the back of the immigration line are getting demonstrate that the "well known fact" that most Americans support keeping illegal immigrants in the US is likely not a fact.
I would suggest that the Times investigate the data collection process that produced this "well known fact".
17
Or perhaps you could check the recent polls by Pew and Reuters and others that show somewhere between 65% and 75% of all Americans and 50% of Republicans support a pathway to citizenship. Not everyone is a xenophobe, and many have sympathy or humanity with regard to longterm tax paying undocumented immigrants.
3
He has support from the same wingnut 20% that agrees wth every other despicable and hateful thing in the republican platform. Most of the attention he's getting are from rest of us who are horrified that American politics has come to this.
2
Why is it we never hear the GOP or the Democrats tell the truth ? The solution is clear which is Jailing employers who hire illegals ??? Could it be that they really do not want to cut off cheap labor which pushes down pay to all Americans...
11
Well I see the Republicans plan to engage Hispanics is working well.
7
If you read Trumps position paper, it is actually quite well-thought out, full of common sense, and will be effective.
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/immigration-reform
The establishment politicians can huff and puff all they want, but the American people will support Trump if nobody else will bring any rationality to the issue.
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/immigration-reform
The establishment politicians can huff and puff all they want, but the American people will support Trump if nobody else will bring any rationality to the issue.
10
Well-thought out? He doesn't know the meaning of "separation of powers" or of "checks and balances."
2
My 88 yo mother , who was born in Brooklyn, USA, and lived for the last 57 years ar the same address in NJ, recently moved to CT. Her mother misplaced her birth certificate many years ago.In about 1991 my mother went through a lot of hoops to get another birth certificate, which could not be done, she finally got a document from the city of Brooklyn attesting that she was born in the US, but not an actual copy of a birth certificate. This document was sufficient for getting a passport and getting onto social security.
But at CT DMV where she was getting her CT license, the worker there had to meet with a supervisor and huddle for 10 min, before they would accept this document.
So how can any illegal get a driver's license if they don't have a birth cert. ?
I am not for deporting illegals en masse, but I don't get why they get a pass on things that 88 yo here have to do.
BTW my grandmother came over on a boat from Sweden legally in 1910. It is the American way to accept immigration. She worked really really hard until she was in her late 70's. There were no safety nets back then. I do not want to go back to those harsh times, but I do want fairness.
But at CT DMV where she was getting her CT license, the worker there had to meet with a supervisor and huddle for 10 min, before they would accept this document.
So how can any illegal get a driver's license if they don't have a birth cert. ?
I am not for deporting illegals en masse, but I don't get why they get a pass on things that 88 yo here have to do.
BTW my grandmother came over on a boat from Sweden legally in 1910. It is the American way to accept immigration. She worked really really hard until she was in her late 70's. There were no safety nets back then. I do not want to go back to those harsh times, but I do want fairness.
6
Please describe "leag; immigration in 1910. I'll do it for you - she got off a boat from Sweden.
2
The most irresponsible and disturbing thing Trump is doing is that he is fanning the flames of a fire that will not be extinguished even if he's somehow magically able to expel every person of Latino origin from the country. Riling up the xenophobic and nativist GOP "base" may work in the short term for cheap votes, but this monster will not be put back into the box. Does anyone really believe that if every "immigrant" were kicked out of the country tomorrow, all these "low-information voters" will simply smile at a job well done and go back to their lives? No, because their lives will be exactly as they were before, and so a new scapegoat will have to be found, and it surely will be. That's the inherent evil in this; this ugliness is constantly hungry and needs to be fed, and once Trump flames out it's likely someone worse will come along behind him to pick up the mantle and find a new "Other" to demonize, because there is always someone just on the margins who can be conveniently blamed for all the ills in the country. Indeed, that is one of the tenants of far-right conservatism: its endless sense of victimization and that any problems are always someone else's fault. The entire business model of the Fox "news" propaganda shop is based on it. What is beginning here is something truly ugly, and the nation would do well to remember the famous poem that begins "First they came…" by Pastor Martin Niemöller. It's as applicable now as the day it was first written.
7
Thanks, John H. (Texas)... For your lucid words...and for you awareness of the sensitive wisdom and historical Place of Martin Niemoller.
2
Trump's comments on everything are vile and over the top. Trump, as a consummate showman knows that there is a natural predilection for the public to be attracted to carnival barkers, demagogues and other people shouting slogans and other nonsense. Sadly, sometimes the demagogues mesmerize people into following them. We have had a lot of them in American history.
What is sad is the point emphasized in this article--namely that the other Republican candidates have gotten mired in the muck Trump has created, and don't seem to be able to extricate themselves. This is the sad result of pander-politics where the whole point is not to further ideas but to attract crowds of screamers.
The nativist people screaming for Trump are masking their bigotry and intolerance in their support. Trump is promising absolutely impossible fantasies to these people who want to sweep minority residents of the U.S. into the sea. This is his repeat of his attraction to "birthers" who somehow thought that if they could prove that President Obama were born in Kenya he would be disqualified for being President (a vain hope--even if he were born in Kenya, he was born to an American citizen, like Ted Cruz, and would be qualified).
So Trump has got the biggest dog whistle for the rabid mass of haters and know-nothing voters. This group of dead-enders cannot carry the general election. Trump has already lost Hispanic voters, African-Americans and women. How can he possibly win?
Republicans know this!
What is sad is the point emphasized in this article--namely that the other Republican candidates have gotten mired in the muck Trump has created, and don't seem to be able to extricate themselves. This is the sad result of pander-politics where the whole point is not to further ideas but to attract crowds of screamers.
The nativist people screaming for Trump are masking their bigotry and intolerance in their support. Trump is promising absolutely impossible fantasies to these people who want to sweep minority residents of the U.S. into the sea. This is his repeat of his attraction to "birthers" who somehow thought that if they could prove that President Obama were born in Kenya he would be disqualified for being President (a vain hope--even if he were born in Kenya, he was born to an American citizen, like Ted Cruz, and would be qualified).
So Trump has got the biggest dog whistle for the rabid mass of haters and know-nothing voters. This group of dead-enders cannot carry the general election. Trump has already lost Hispanic voters, African-Americans and women. How can he possibly win?
Republicans know this!
5
To Democrats such as myself, Mr Trump is the gift that keeps on giving. That said, I am saddened by the lack of constructive policy discourse that makes our country a better place. Our political system always works best with two strong parties working within the realm of reality. Mr Trump is way outside that realm.
4
I hate to admit it but Obama has been a political genius on this issue.
His use of executive power to attempt to unilaterally legalize many illegal immigrants (combined with calls for a path to citizenship) has enraged many on the Right who view this as an overreach of his power and an attempt by Democrats to stack the deck with increasing Hispanic citizenship coupled with Democratic pandering to existing and future Hispanic citizens on this issue.
This has pushed a portion of the Republican base to be more amenable to Mr. Trump's demagoguery and unfortunately for a large feckless group of Republican Presidential candidates not challenging that demagoguery. Republicans will now soundly lose the critical Hispanic vote by a even wider margin than normal, handing the 2016 Presidential Election and perhaps control of the Senate back to the Democrats.
Well played Obama...well played.
His use of executive power to attempt to unilaterally legalize many illegal immigrants (combined with calls for a path to citizenship) has enraged many on the Right who view this as an overreach of his power and an attempt by Democrats to stack the deck with increasing Hispanic citizenship coupled with Democratic pandering to existing and future Hispanic citizens on this issue.
This has pushed a portion of the Republican base to be more amenable to Mr. Trump's demagoguery and unfortunately for a large feckless group of Republican Presidential candidates not challenging that demagoguery. Republicans will now soundly lose the critical Hispanic vote by a even wider margin than normal, handing the 2016 Presidential Election and perhaps control of the Senate back to the Democrats.
Well played Obama...well played.
4
I will hand it to Trump: he is saying the otherwise unspeakable, and many people (on both sides of the political spectrum) are reacting with, hey this makes sense.
Any why shouldn't they? (Other than wanting to import more Democratic votes,) Why do Democrats want a flood of poor immigrants? It goes against every Democratic objective. It diminishes wages at the low end of the spectrum, it hurts unions, it takes low-income jobs away from Americans. AND it strains the entitlement state.
Proponents of entitlements need to recognize that the more people who depend on them, the less we can afford to allocate. A flood of poor immigrants is an entitlement killer. Sweden is the model for democratic socialism, and they get it. Only 10 percent of people living in Sweden are foreign born. Why more Democrats don't get this is beyond me.
Any why shouldn't they? (Other than wanting to import more Democratic votes,) Why do Democrats want a flood of poor immigrants? It goes against every Democratic objective. It diminishes wages at the low end of the spectrum, it hurts unions, it takes low-income jobs away from Americans. AND it strains the entitlement state.
Proponents of entitlements need to recognize that the more people who depend on them, the less we can afford to allocate. A flood of poor immigrants is an entitlement killer. Sweden is the model for democratic socialism, and they get it. Only 10 percent of people living in Sweden are foreign born. Why more Democrats don't get this is beyond me.
11
The patriotism and traditionalism of " faux-populist billionaire" is delivered with unvarnished intolerance to that audience most fearful of what they see as the encroaching modernity.
While acknowledging the risk of using the overused term, "fascist," it fits. Trump is a fascist. His methods, his delivery, and all that we know is disingenuous about his words conform to the title.
What's puzzling is that almost all of the remaining candidates lack the strength of character to call him out. Meanwhile, the followers begin to embrace this most dangerous narrative.
While acknowledging the risk of using the overused term, "fascist," it fits. Trump is a fascist. His methods, his delivery, and all that we know is disingenuous about his words conform to the title.
What's puzzling is that almost all of the remaining candidates lack the strength of character to call him out. Meanwhile, the followers begin to embrace this most dangerous narrative.
6
Anything as complex as immigration policy will have to be changed, changed, and changed again as time goes by. What Trump offers is an impulse--to protect the country and confront the invasion. What the Times offers is also an impulse--de facto amnesty and open borders. If I must choose between two emotional impulses, I choose Trump's.
8
The vast majority of Americans from the Rio Grande to the North Pole are immigrants or descendants of immigrants. Separating those who would be deemed illegal and sent back would be an insurmountable task and an incredible strain on our transportation network. It wasn't long ago some called to "Send them back to Africa!" Where are we going to send "them today." They're from a variety of peoples and cultures. They are men, woman and children who have no other place to go. Shame.
7
These are the Democrats' platform today:
(1) Open our borders to the world's poor, and give amnesty to everyone who broke the law to get here;
(2) Increase the minimum wage so that even more low-income Americans cannot get entry level jobs and encourage the newly minted legal immigrants to continue taking under the table payments;
(3) Keep on increasing the entitlement state while simultaneously adding to its rolls;
(4) Don't pay for any of it ... ever.
(5) And keep ratcheting up taxes and regulations on businesses and the "wealthy" to ensure that we also can't grow our way out of our debt.
Great plans all around. Can't wait to see how it all works out for my kids!
(1) Open our borders to the world's poor, and give amnesty to everyone who broke the law to get here;
(2) Increase the minimum wage so that even more low-income Americans cannot get entry level jobs and encourage the newly minted legal immigrants to continue taking under the table payments;
(3) Keep on increasing the entitlement state while simultaneously adding to its rolls;
(4) Don't pay for any of it ... ever.
(5) And keep ratcheting up taxes and regulations on businesses and the "wealthy" to ensure that we also can't grow our way out of our debt.
Great plans all around. Can't wait to see how it all works out for my kids!
7
If the GOP has their way you won't have to wait-just watch the new Mad Max movie to see how that works out.
1
At this time the slate of Republican Party candidates is an American tragedy of sorts. I will say that some could actually become president and do a good job but a disappointing number lack caliber and the makeup one needs in a nation's leader.
But it's the GOP platform and business model that drive all of this and it unfortunately lies in an alternate universe.
What's seldom mentioned is the negative impact of all of the GOP "Let's Make America Great Again," as if our country has gone over an abyss now following almost 7 years of GOP obstruction and the prior 8 years of the Bush Cheney administration.
So here we are drinking our own whiskey.
Please anyone tell me how we are going to provide the leadership needed on the world's stage while we have a political party that appears to be run by some real off-beat characters.
Why is this happening? It's because of the $billions sloshing around for consultants, ad agencies, ad space and time, media organizations, policy shops, and PACs.
But it's the GOP platform and business model that drive all of this and it unfortunately lies in an alternate universe.
What's seldom mentioned is the negative impact of all of the GOP "Let's Make America Great Again," as if our country has gone over an abyss now following almost 7 years of GOP obstruction and the prior 8 years of the Bush Cheney administration.
So here we are drinking our own whiskey.
Please anyone tell me how we are going to provide the leadership needed on the world's stage while we have a political party that appears to be run by some real off-beat characters.
Why is this happening? It's because of the $billions sloshing around for consultants, ad agencies, ad space and time, media organizations, policy shops, and PACs.
7
Latinos are the fastest growing ethnicity in the US. We were 6% of the electorate in 2004, and grew to 10% by 2008. In the last two elections we voted heavily for Obama. Furthermore, we grew to 17% of the electorate in Florida in 2012 and gave Florida to Obama. Continuing to wage war on the demographic that is giving elections to the Democrats isn't a smart strategy for winning.
7
"Continuing to wage war on the demographic that is giving elections to the Democrats isn't a smart strategy for winning."
And millions of us are deeply, sincerely grateful that R's are stuck with a brainless and ruthless policy because it allows the current herd of aspiring nonentities to toddle along behind the brainless and ruthless egotist who so loudly defines their true beliefs.
And millions of us are deeply, sincerely grateful that R's are stuck with a brainless and ruthless policy because it allows the current herd of aspiring nonentities to toddle along behind the brainless and ruthless egotist who so loudly defines their true beliefs.
1
No one is waging war on Latinos. We simply want people to come here legally, and to know who is here. If you want more illegal immigration, vote Democrat. If you want more jobs and opportunity, vote Republican. It really is that simple, and I think most Latinos here legally will understand that.
1
With the advent of Trump, it has become easier to understand how, as that final cataclysmic election approached, the remaining rational citizens of the Weimar Republic simply did not believe what they were witnessing.
8
What Trump and the other GOP cowards are actually talking about is the dismantling and dissolution of American society, in addition to starting a war with Mexico (How else would one "force" another country to pay for the fence.). How does a government round up millions of people? Are we talking about detention centers, internment camps, concentration camps, mini-Guantanamos, black sites? Why target Mexican immigrants? How many Canadians, Russians, and Irish are here illegally? Wouldn't most European descendants of immigrants, including Trump, Graham, and Pataki, have to prove that their forebears arrived at Ellis Island legally?
Imagine frontrunner Trump, who has hired undocumented Polish immigrants to work on his construction sites, who does business with Mafia crime families, who has a history of not paying his contractors, having the power to decide who are good immigrants. And what about those of us who are descendants of slaves? Maybe that's the point after all. To work our way back to the Dred Scott decision.
Imagine frontrunner Trump, who has hired undocumented Polish immigrants to work on his construction sites, who does business with Mafia crime families, who has a history of not paying his contractors, having the power to decide who are good immigrants. And what about those of us who are descendants of slaves? Maybe that's the point after all. To work our way back to the Dred Scott decision.
12
Sorry, but I have to question the intelligence of any progressive Democrat in the lower socio-economic classes of our society that welcomes increased competiton for jobs, wages and government resources from immigrants....especially if those immigrants are here illegally.
I would also question the sincerity of the empathy that the progressive Democrats in the upper echelons of the socio-economic ladder have for their less fortunate brethern if they favor amnesty for millions of illegals and oppose shutting down the borders.
I would also question the sincerity of the empathy that the progressive Democrats in the upper echelons of the socio-economic ladder have for their less fortunate brethern if they favor amnesty for millions of illegals and oppose shutting down the borders.
12
How many nights until Kristallnacht?
11
Trump's immigration plan is clearly a violation of the 14th Amendment. I would like to hear him discuss his strategy for surviving a Supreme Court challenge.
2
Didn't you hear: Trump says that the 14th Amendment is "unconstitutional," and "won't stand up in court."
Did this man actually go to school???????
Did this man actually go to school???????
1
So 50% of Americans are racist?
Protecting the domestic work force is a good thing. Unlimited numbers of job seekers drive wages down. As the number of jobs plummeted during the last recession so did wages. It's simply supply and demand. It is curious that as income dives people seek cheaper goods and the demand for cheaper goods is met with cheaper labor. Though judging from the construction crews working around here in SF, even "progressive" democrats with the wealth to afford housing don't mind cheaper labor. Contractors who hire undocs (a local term) almost have to do so to remain competitive and stay in business.
I can't understand why this is so difficult to see or admit.
By the way advocates for amnesty don't want cheaper wages , they want decent paying jobs for undocs. But with an unlimited work force that won't happen.
Protecting the domestic work force is a good thing. Unlimited numbers of job seekers drive wages down. As the number of jobs plummeted during the last recession so did wages. It's simply supply and demand. It is curious that as income dives people seek cheaper goods and the demand for cheaper goods is met with cheaper labor. Though judging from the construction crews working around here in SF, even "progressive" democrats with the wealth to afford housing don't mind cheaper labor. Contractors who hire undocs (a local term) almost have to do so to remain competitive and stay in business.
I can't understand why this is so difficult to see or admit.
By the way advocates for amnesty don't want cheaper wages , they want decent paying jobs for undocs. But with an unlimited work force that won't happen.
13
Could be, that is why the Constitution protects the minority from the tyranny of the "majority" - although you know not - it just seems 50% when all you listen to is Fox
Inwas born here of two parents who emigrated to,America in the 1930's. I suppose I should be worried now...
2
".... all for the common good.."
Ronald Reagan put the dagger into the heart of this sentiment.
Ronald Reagan put the dagger into the heart of this sentiment.
3
If you are here illegally, yes, then this is a fight to the bottom. If you are a legal immigrant or a citizen, with only a high school diploma, who is seeing jobs taken up and wages kept down by undocumented workers, then it is a fight for survival. The flood of undocumented workers has been very bad for average American workers. Black Americans, who as a whole, have less formal education, have been hit especially hard. (see research conducted by George Borjas, an economist at Harvard.)
The President is trying to get non-violent criminals let out of prison earlier. Where are these people going to find work? They’ll have to compete with all of the undocumented workers. How many of these former prisoners will feel forced to return to their old criminal ways in order to make ends meet?
The President is trying to get non-violent criminals let out of prison earlier. Where are these people going to find work? They’ll have to compete with all of the undocumented workers. How many of these former prisoners will feel forced to return to their old criminal ways in order to make ends meet?
16
Donald Trump is not given the credit he deserves, and is not being taken seriously enough.
He is making a strong case that he can lead this country, and he's doing that in a way that no other candidate in either party is doing. That is, he is showing he can lead a country by leading a strange and varied group of national leaders who are running for President.
He's the leader, and the rest are followers. He has taken command in a way no other candidate I can remember has.
I'm not advocating any of his ideas--I find them distasteful. I'm just saying that more people need to take him seriously. It's not the content of his message that is having an influence on people. Instead, it is his style. People see him as being in charge, being in control, cutting to the chase, speaking in specifics instead of beating around the bush, being fearless, etc.
The other candidates in both parties better wake up. This guy could be President.
He is making a strong case that he can lead this country, and he's doing that in a way that no other candidate in either party is doing. That is, he is showing he can lead a country by leading a strange and varied group of national leaders who are running for President.
He's the leader, and the rest are followers. He has taken command in a way no other candidate I can remember has.
I'm not advocating any of his ideas--I find them distasteful. I'm just saying that more people need to take him seriously. It's not the content of his message that is having an influence on people. Instead, it is his style. People see him as being in charge, being in control, cutting to the chase, speaking in specifics instead of beating around the bush, being fearless, etc.
The other candidates in both parties better wake up. This guy could be President.
6
His leadership style is only possible because it's completely unmoored from reality. It's easy to make forceful assertions that sound like leadership if he has no regard for how possible it is to achieve any of it.
4
I wish conservatives would make up their minds.
Do you want smaller government or do you want thousands of new government employees hired (at taxpayer expense) to deport illegal immigrants and to sort out the legal from the illegal?
Do you want cheap food to go with your cheap oil or are you willing to pay twice as much for food once all that cheap labor goes away?
Figure it out people, until you do, nothing will get accomplished.
Do you want smaller government or do you want thousands of new government employees hired (at taxpayer expense) to deport illegal immigrants and to sort out the legal from the illegal?
Do you want cheap food to go with your cheap oil or are you willing to pay twice as much for food once all that cheap labor goes away?
Figure it out people, until you do, nothing will get accomplished.
6
You're an Obama liberal.
Why does it matter to you what we do?
Why does it matter to you what we do?
I didn't see Scott Walker included in this article, however it may be because he is so stunningly shameless in his "jump on the Trump" bandwagon that they didn't want to give him any publicity. I can only assume that Jindal is so prejudiced against Latinos that even though he is a birthright citizen himself he is blind to the similarity.
4
The Republican Party will have a brokered convention, chose Jeb Bush or Scott Walker, or even Ben Carson, and Trump will be forced to run as an Independent. It will split the vote, and Mrs. Clinton will become the first woman president in US history.
5
I came here as a legal immigrant from Europe. It was a hard and long process.
I don't understand why all the commentators here or the NYT Ed Board are against curbing illegal immigration and encouraging legal immigration and legal temp work visas monitored at Federal Level. I fully support these Trump ideas.
I don't understand why all the commentators here or the NYT Ed Board are against curbing illegal immigration and encouraging legal immigration and legal temp work visas monitored at Federal Level. I fully support these Trump ideas.
13
The left poisoned the debate years ago by shamelessly and relentlessly using the blanket term 'immigrants' to describe 'illegal immigrants' and by deliberately conflating legal and illegal immigration, which the NYT continues to do even today. Nobody likes this dishonesty and has caused millions to become even more anti-illegal immigrant than they might have been otherwise.
8
Oh wow, blame the victim for making the bully?
Given its exclusively all-white and aging voting base, the GOP will, despite the elite's preference for cheap labor and no Social Security or Medicare, advocate just the opposite. The resurgent far right European parties, aka fascists, promote (1) anti-immigrant fervor and (2) maintenance of the welfare state, but only for people like themselves. Trump is filling a political void of both parties.
2
Any intimation that Rubio or "!" is moderate is just nuts!! Neither of these guys is moderate and neither is qualified to be President.
4
Usually, it is striking how anti-illegal-immigration Comments dominate in the NY Times. Yet today’s Comments intensely deprecate anti-illegal-immigration.
Are “rule of law” Comments being moderated out?
Are “rule of law” Comments being moderated out?
6
Not really. That's the right wing method of dealing with information they disagree with.
So , If you are a Latino or Black or any other immigrant consider your vote.
Whatever the GOP candidates says , you are fanatic GOP vote machine or You are trying to make sense and being meaningful.
Yes there is a Jeb Bush, Kasich , Rubio in the race, If you don't even consider them as a potential candidate.
You are your won.
Whatever the GOP candidates says , you are fanatic GOP vote machine or You are trying to make sense and being meaningful.
Yes there is a Jeb Bush, Kasich , Rubio in the race, If you don't even consider them as a potential candidate.
You are your won.
Picture the swatt teams in the night. The doors broken Dow. People shot. And the inevitable mistakes because they went to the wrong house! Or just because somebody had a Hispanic last name. Like me! Due to marriage. But what the heck?
Suppose people start turning in neighbors they don't like?
Suppose people start turning in neighbors they don't like?
4
I keep hearing from the pundits that the GOP needs the Latino vote and therefore they should be careful trying to emulate Trump. It's much simpler, actually. This is not about votes, this is about morality and the 14th amendment. Any sane politician with a heartbeat can easily stay on the side of the law and good morals when being asked how they see the immigration "problem", instead of joining the race to the bottom. All they need to say is:"Let's work within our laws and be human when it comes to our immigrants" I know, one can dream, right?
2
Too many people have knee-jerk reactions to the topic of immigration which are based on misinformation and prejudice. In traditionally white small American towns, for example, immigration from Mexico and Central America is viewed with alarm by long-term residents as they see the demographics of their community changing. As anyone who has taken a road trip across the Midwest can attest, however, many of these small towns are dying -- their populations decreasing, their businesses boarded up, their vacant lots going to seed. In such places, an influx of immigrants can be a real Godsend, helping to to revive the community. (See, for example, the story of Beardstown, Illinois: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/07/beardstown-illinois-small-town-.... This is nothing new, of course -- it's been the story of American since the beginning. It is true that immigration comes with problems, but history shows that the benefits to the nation have far outweighed any negative impacts.
3
It will take a constitutional amendment to eliminate birthright citizenship, so it's hardly worth the breath to discuss it. That said, it's a ridiculous policy. It encourages people to travel to the US to have "anchor babies." Then deportation of them become impossible because we can't force them to take their kids with them. That means if we deport a parent, we risk having to put the child into social services. It's insane.
If my wife and I are in Europe and she has a baby, I would have zero expectation that our kid would get citizenship in whatever European country we're in. We're Americans and our kid will be American. Is there any other country in the world that gives automatic citizenship to tourists' babies?
Also, Bobby Jindal is NOT a birthright citizen. His parents were legal immigrants, and Jindal would have become a naturalized citizen through his parents with or without the 14th Amendment.
If my wife and I are in Europe and she has a baby, I would have zero expectation that our kid would get citizenship in whatever European country we're in. We're Americans and our kid will be American. Is there any other country in the world that gives automatic citizenship to tourists' babies?
Also, Bobby Jindal is NOT a birthright citizen. His parents were legal immigrants, and Jindal would have become a naturalized citizen through his parents with or without the 14th Amendment.
5
The Editorial Board is laughable. Trump's proposals are good and what the majority of people want. The people who say "it can't be done" are very old school, "World is Flat" types. Get with it. Trump is here to stay and closing in on Hillary "duplicitous" Clinton in the latest poll match-ups. Regarding 'Anchor Babies" being entitled to "birthright" citizenship by the Constitution, you are wrong. This issue will be straightened out shortly in favor of eliminating citizenship for "Anchor Babies". This is clearly spelled out in the Constitution if you keep reading. Mark Levin points it out in case you are interest. Also, read the National Review, they address the issue as well. Every day illegal immigrants that came across the Mexican border murder and rape innocent American citizens. The NYT doesn't report on it, but local newspapers do and it is true.
7
That Americans "strongly" support a pathway to citizenship is simply and plainly false. That there is, in this debate a "barely subtextual racism" is a NYTimes perpetuated fabrication designed to cow people. I don't see honesty in this editorial. What I do see is a blatant attempt at convincing people that lawlessness be blessed.
Reading this editorial is nothing if not infuriating.
Reading this editorial is nothing if not infuriating.
11
This is in fact what the polls say consistently including one from a week ago. About 60 to 70%, including 77% independents and 50% Republicans support a pathway to citizenship. Perhaps theFox echo chamber is far outside mainstream America? Racism and xenophobia are not the norm except in a certain subset.
1
Jeb Bush says we need to "reweave the web of civility" but a generation of Republicans have been braised in the brash and disdainful stew of Fox News. The rising popularity of Donald Trump, dehumanizing immigrant friends and neighbors, and dragging political discourse into the gutter are all the crowning achievements of Roger Ailes and Rupert Murdoch. Unfortunately for Jeb Bush and other good men and women, the new Republican party brand is incivility.
3
Jeb isn't a good man. He will join in on this hate speech or at the very least remain silent about it.
The view that the Trump enthralled, have of immigrants, is the same view a very young second child has, at the homecoming of a newborn third.
4
For years, newspapers like the NY Times have censored discussion of illegal immigration. Repeatedly presenting articles that regard illegal immigrants as "victims," the NY Times nevertheless fails to analyze the impact of illegal immigrants on middle class and poor Americans. Illegal immigrants do not compete with college professors or journalists for jobs, only with the unskilled and semiskilled workers, like tile layers in construction, who compete with illegal immigrants who are willing to work "under the table" for lower wages.
This is a long-term problem. For example, in 2001, the NY Times reported that Tyson foods recruited illegal immigrants to lower labor costs:
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/21/us/meatpackers-profits-hinge-on-pool-o...
Here is a quote: "Until 15 or 20 years ago, meatpacking plants in the United States were staffed by highly paid, unionized employees who earned about $18 an hour, adjusted for inflation. Today, the processing and packing plants are largely staffed by low-paid non-union workers from places like Mexico and Guatemala. Many of them start at $6 an hour."
By failing to follow up on this issue, journalists have allowed a serious problem to become worse; now it strains the US political system.
Trump voices the concerns of forgotten Americans. Yes, his rhetoric is unnecessarily inflammatory. But failure to allow the full expression of political views then, those wrongly labeled as "bigoted," exacts a heavy cost now.
This is a long-term problem. For example, in 2001, the NY Times reported that Tyson foods recruited illegal immigrants to lower labor costs:
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/21/us/meatpackers-profits-hinge-on-pool-o...
Here is a quote: "Until 15 or 20 years ago, meatpacking plants in the United States were staffed by highly paid, unionized employees who earned about $18 an hour, adjusted for inflation. Today, the processing and packing plants are largely staffed by low-paid non-union workers from places like Mexico and Guatemala. Many of them start at $6 an hour."
By failing to follow up on this issue, journalists have allowed a serious problem to become worse; now it strains the US political system.
Trump voices the concerns of forgotten Americans. Yes, his rhetoric is unnecessarily inflammatory. But failure to allow the full expression of political views then, those wrongly labeled as "bigoted," exacts a heavy cost now.
11
All rhetoric aside, everyone knows nothing will be done about immigration. Our economy is far too dependent on the constant flow of cheap (illegal) labor to force a change to the status quo. All the tough talk is just political theater.
1
Hidden in Donald Trump's bombastic craziness and xenophobic ugliness are some disturbing kernels of truth that help drive his popularity.
Does Facebook really need to look overseas for skilled workers? Or, as Mr. Trump contends, is the H-1B visa program in part a scam to enable tech companies to hire cheap labor and outsource jobs overseas, leaving American workers on the sidelines.
The Times has reported on the outrageous behavior of Disney and other companies who brought so-called "skilled workers" in to replace Americans and then asked the Americans to train their replacements. Who was more skilled?
Can our politicians left and right be bought or is Mr. Trump just pounding his chest when he asserts, to paraphrase, "I give to everyone and then when I call they do what I want."
Unscripted, ugly, and frightening but also on target on some issues.
Does Facebook really need to look overseas for skilled workers? Or, as Mr. Trump contends, is the H-1B visa program in part a scam to enable tech companies to hire cheap labor and outsource jobs overseas, leaving American workers on the sidelines.
The Times has reported on the outrageous behavior of Disney and other companies who brought so-called "skilled workers" in to replace Americans and then asked the Americans to train their replacements. Who was more skilled?
Can our politicians left and right be bought or is Mr. Trump just pounding his chest when he asserts, to paraphrase, "I give to everyone and then when I call they do what I want."
Unscripted, ugly, and frightening but also on target on some issues.
4
The Times also published a thoughtful op-ed co-authored by Bill Gates, Sheldon Adelson and Warren Buffett, asking for reforms to the H1B program, so they can get even more absurdly rich on the backs of exploited workers.
Others support this sort of nonsense because it makes them feel like Really Good People, Much Better Than Those Other People. These folks usually work in fields that are not welcoming to illegal workers (e.g. editorial positions at a national newspaper).
Their "opposing" ideologies may look irreconcilable on paper, but there's not much real-world distinction between today's "elites". Greed, narcissism. Gates, Adelson, Buffett...the Times editorial board.
Others support this sort of nonsense because it makes them feel like Really Good People, Much Better Than Those Other People. These folks usually work in fields that are not welcoming to illegal workers (e.g. editorial positions at a national newspaper).
Their "opposing" ideologies may look irreconcilable on paper, but there's not much real-world distinction between today's "elites". Greed, narcissism. Gates, Adelson, Buffett...the Times editorial board.
Leaders of conservative party that says it loves liberty and freedom are asking us to hate those seeking both. It will end in tears.
5
"Like remoras on a shark"? Really? Could you have found a more obtuse metaphor? Whoever is responsible for this particular editorial, could you offer him or her a lesson in remedial plainspeak? And while you're at it, you might want to contemplate what proportion of a general readership is familiar with the adjective 'feckless.' Oh, to be lacking feck!
5
Did I miss something, or was John Kasich left out of your account. My impression is that his position re immigration differs markedly from that of Trump and his descending co-partisans.
1
Trump is a man out of time and place.
His manic delusions are an echo, from almost a century ago, of a leader who claimed he would remake his country the reincarnation of the Roman Empire. The posturing, the boasts and the wild generalizations all qualify as deja vu.
His manic delusions are an echo, from almost a century ago, of a leader who claimed he would remake his country the reincarnation of the Roman Empire. The posturing, the boasts and the wild generalizations all qualify as deja vu.
4
Democrats would have us repeat the Roman Empires fall by spending us into an oblivion of debt, paying a fifth of our citizens not to work, shrinking our military to nothing, and not securing our borders.
Latinos and immigrants are a threat to the future of the GOP.
This is one way to neutralize it.
This is one way to neutralize it.
4
It couldn't be more simple. We welcome legal immigrants. If you want to come here, follow the rules, like everyone else.
2
Democrats love this.
This talk deflects attention from Hillary's e-mail problems.
This talk deflects attention from Hillary's e-mail problems.
2
The 14th amendment was written when the borders were not being threatened by mass illegal immigrants en masse. Trump is right ... our country is going down the tubes; democrats get more sure-as-shootin' voters registered. That's the crux of the matter and why the left is so embracing of flooding our shores with illegals.
Remember the ERA campaign? NYT wasn't opposed to THAT. Jus' sayin' ...
Remember the ERA campaign? NYT wasn't opposed to THAT. Jus' sayin' ...
3
Advocating ripping up our Constitution for an abhorrent and inhumane immigration policy that would cast aside "birth right citizen" goes beyond "scapegoating" and "racism" to an authoritarian disregard for the cherished Republican mantra of "the rule of law." We have seen the horrific consequences of such behavior in the 20th century with the cruel nativism, anti-immigrant laws here and the similar racial purity codes that were an essential part of fascism. Any candidate like Donald Trump and his fellow Republican wannabe imitators who are unable to abide by the oath of office where they must swear to "preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States" should be automatically disqualified from running for President. As we should have learned from our most recent "business President," the Constitution should never be twisted to allow torture and illegal, unjustified wars.
4
Change a few names and words and this editorial could have appeared in a late 1920s German newspaper. Beware the "marginal" scapegoating demagogue.
4
I see that Adolph Trump has learned a thing or two from Hitler, after he deals with the Mexicans who is next, the Irish Americans or the Japanese Americans or whom? This is just sickening.....
5
He could pick on teachers like Walker or gay people. Of course there are always poor people, Romney and Ryan did pretty well with that.
I'm trying to imagine Trump, and now the Republican, vision for America: an Iron Curtain between us and Mexico, with thousands of military police herding an endless line of immigrants, forcing them out, and shooting the grannies and kids who try to break rank and run for it. Maybe he can relocate the Statue of Liberty to a desert in Texas, or sell it as scrap metal to help pay for the riot police we'll need.
4
It seems to me that donnie is just saying what the average publican winger believes.
3
"He would ... impose a national job-verification system so that everyone, citizens too, would need federal permission to work." What next? Federal permission to travel across state lines to change jobs?
4
They're not "following Trump" anywhere--they've all been saying those things for months (years?)!
All these "candidates" seem to gave STARTED at the bottom, and since then, have constantly defined new depths as they make ever-more extreme right-wing statements.
All these "candidates" seem to gave STARTED at the bottom, and since then, have constantly defined new depths as they make ever-more extreme right-wing statements.
5
Trump put in terms that everyone should be able to understand "either we have a country or we don't". You can't have a viable economy or country without secure borders and without restrictions on entry and immigration. No successful country on earth permits illegal immigrants to enter it's borders without penalty. But more to the point, 11 million illegal, undocumented, unknown immigrants is a direct and imminent threat to our national security. How many of these immigrants are members of ISIS or other terrorist organizations? How many are members of Mexican and South American drug cartels? The border needs to be sealed.
4
Does anyone understand that Trump's idiotic ideas will cost money?
"To the bottom ... ?" Someone might want to check the polls again for how the majority of US citizens feel about illegal squatters; the latter soon to be eyeing your house as theirs. It is called theft. And God opposes theft!
2
He has "noxious positions", is a "faux populist", and his proposals are "despicable"?
I think you mean that he's representing ordinary Americans, instead of the East Coast liberal consensus; the common citizens, instead of the people who believe they have a divine right to define what shall be politically correct; people who think for themselves, instead of those who toe the line expounded by the "intelligentsia" in papers like the New York Times.
I think you mean that he's representing ordinary Americans, instead of the East Coast liberal consensus; the common citizens, instead of the people who believe they have a divine right to define what shall be politically correct; people who think for themselves, instead of those who toe the line expounded by the "intelligentsia" in papers like the New York Times.
4
Yep, ordinary Americans who watch Reality TV and follow a demented, wealthy white guy who is one of the employers of illegal immigrants.
Between Trump's buffoonery and this paper ludicrous screeds on this issue, one hardly knows where to begin to scream. All countries have immigration laws. Why are we not allowed that right? Are we to have no say about who gets to come here and who does not? Why are we obligated to let in every single unskilled Latino with a third grade education who does not speak English and wants to shove five kids in our school system? On what moral basis are people like me to be told to accept huge tax increases to pay for their needs?
5
I do feel sorry for moderate Republicans who see their party being dragged into the mire and can't do anything to stop it. On the other hand, this is the best thing that could happen for Democrats. It's like handing them the election on a platter.
3
Thanks for your sympathy. May I, in turn, offer you my sympathy for your only candidate being the least trustworthy person since Nixon, being under FBI and Justice Department investigation for failing to observe even the most basic national security protocols with our nation's classified information all so she could control the information, in violation of our laws, regulations and protocol. Seems we both have a serious problem. However, at least we have many other viable candidates who aren't under such a dank, dark cloud...
The real damage that the Trump candidacy is doing is that when he finally tanks, the remaining members of the GOP clown troupe will all seem pretty reasonable. I hope that for the sake of the Democratic nominee they are keeping tapes of the GOP candidate responses to the Donald's wild assertions. Sigh - where's the Daily show when you need it?
3
The NYT is unwilling to admit that there are Americans who agree with Trump on illegal immigrants. Many of us remember America that existed before it became overrun with illegal immigrants. We think something should be done. We want to see the law enforced.
In 1985 we were promised that the law would be enforced if we agreed to an Amnesty, we agreed - the illegal aliens got their amnesty but we NEVER got the enforcement. Now 30 years later, Obama and Hispanics are demanding another amnesty for over 11 million illegal aliens. Believe me we won't be fooled a second time. People like Obama and NYT have no problem with Open Borders and another flood of illegal aliens who will demand amnesty in another 20 years.
I want the enforcement first. Trump is right lets get enforcement and do deportation, end chain migration, end birthright citizenship and then we will talk about changes to the immigration laws. But right now I don't want to see another amnesty until I get the enforcement promised in 1985.
I don't trust Obama - he has shown contempt for our immigration laws with his changes to enforcement and mass "prosecutorial discretion" which has allowed convicted criminal and gang members to remain in this country and murder our citizens. He has started an illegal DACA program and a DAPA program until he got stopped by the courts. He is trying to use his executive authority to rewrite our laws and have a mass amnesty.
Does it really surprise you that people support Trump?
In 1985 we were promised that the law would be enforced if we agreed to an Amnesty, we agreed - the illegal aliens got their amnesty but we NEVER got the enforcement. Now 30 years later, Obama and Hispanics are demanding another amnesty for over 11 million illegal aliens. Believe me we won't be fooled a second time. People like Obama and NYT have no problem with Open Borders and another flood of illegal aliens who will demand amnesty in another 20 years.
I want the enforcement first. Trump is right lets get enforcement and do deportation, end chain migration, end birthright citizenship and then we will talk about changes to the immigration laws. But right now I don't want to see another amnesty until I get the enforcement promised in 1985.
I don't trust Obama - he has shown contempt for our immigration laws with his changes to enforcement and mass "prosecutorial discretion" which has allowed convicted criminal and gang members to remain in this country and murder our citizens. He has started an illegal DACA program and a DAPA program until he got stopped by the courts. He is trying to use his executive authority to rewrite our laws and have a mass amnesty.
Does it really surprise you that people support Trump?
4
I support the Times editorial's position overall on immigration overall, but it seems disingenuous that it failed to note John Kasich's opposition to Trump's immigration stance, stated as recently as yesterday on the PBS NewsHour. The desire to tar all Republicans with the same brush is understandable -- and in many cases deserved. However, when one has the courage and wisdom to take a different path, that seems all the more worth noting.
2
By Trump's logic, he (and several other Republican candidates) shouldn't have US citizenship. His grandfather immigrated from Germany not so very long ago (1880s) and his father would have been one of the native-born children whom Trump's policy would repatriate (because also under Trump's policy, his grandfather shouldn't have been naturalized). That's the sole tiny appealing detail of Trump's otherwise odiously nativist stance. Why have American's forgotten that we're a country of immigrants? We used to be proud of that.
6
You clearly are a progressive; either unable or unwilling to tell the difference between legal and ILLEGAL entry into the US. This illegals here are not immigrants, they are invaders swarming over our borders. All of them, and their children should be shipped back and their employers fined huge amounts and jailed if serial offenders. We should welcome, with open arms, legal well qualified immigrants and well managed guest workers. We need to review and revise our legal immigration policies to favor the US, not others. Among other things, no young Muslim men should be admitted, period.
Trump's path leads to fascism and ethnic cleansing on a grand scale. As you observe, this "policy" gave the other passengers in the clown car the opportunity to inject a little bit of sanity. Instead, they doubled down on Trump's nonsensical, and yet still vile, plan.
And still the GOP base froths at the mouth.
And still the GOP base froths at the mouth.
7
If the GOP establishment dared to look into the mirror of introspection and ask, "Mirror, Mirror on the wall, who's the fairest of them all?", an image of Donald Trump would appear sporting a crafty, sly, and evil grin. He is a true reflection of who they are. The polls confirm it.
4
And, Hillary is a true reflection of who you progressive liberals are, as well I guess. How does it feel to have your candidate under multiple investigations, FBI and Justice Department criminal investigations? Wish you had a viable alternative in the wings???
The last two Presidents had a Republican Majority and a Democratic Majority and both called for comprehensive immigration reform. Republicans blocked Mr. Bush and when he had a Democratic Congress they did nothing. When Democrats had a majority under President Obama they did nothing.
Mr. Trump has traction because both parties have failed to act when they were in a position to act. Blaming this on Republicans misses the political reality. Big Labor that supports Democrats wants to stop immigration both legal and illegal. There is no consensus for immigration reform that looks anything like the authors view.
Fire breathing Republicans aside the dirty little secret is the Democratic Party is very happy to not have to do anything on immigration reform.
Mr. Trump has traction because both parties have failed to act when they were in a position to act. Blaming this on Republicans misses the political reality. Big Labor that supports Democrats wants to stop immigration both legal and illegal. There is no consensus for immigration reform that looks anything like the authors view.
Fire breathing Republicans aside the dirty little secret is the Democratic Party is very happy to not have to do anything on immigration reform.
1
I think we have a failure to communicate here.
What the left considers immigration reform conservatives consider amnesty for millions of ILLEGAL alien invaders. A "path to citizenship" begin with a one-way trip back to where they came and a place at the back of the line for legal entry. Anything else that gives ILLEGALS any advantage over those trying to come here legally should be a non-starter.
What the left considers immigration reform conservatives consider amnesty for millions of ILLEGAL alien invaders. A "path to citizenship" begin with a one-way trip back to where they came and a place at the back of the line for legal entry. Anything else that gives ILLEGALS any advantage over those trying to come here legally should be a non-starter.
Most observers knew that there was a group of low-information, anti-government, racially biased voters which found Donald Trump’s bombast attractive. Now we know that the group includes Scott Walker (with enthusiasm) and, apparently, the other 15 Republican candidates in meek acceptance of Trump’s leadership. By helping Americans ferret out this pathetic bunch, Trump probably has performed the only service to our country we can expect from him.
6
Is Trump running for President or Dictator?
7
I too support an "earned path" to citizenship, but why do we have to keep an antiquated practice alive [birthright] when it's effects are bankrupting our social systems? Birthright citizenship pre-dates our constitution, as did the medical practice of "bloodletting" and we don't do that anymore because we know it doesn't work! Rewrite the 14th amendment. Let's at least talk about it! Why not enter illegally, have a baby, yet the baby gets a temporary ID and deported back to country of origin and we bill whichever country they came from for hospital expenses. Fair and humane. Problem solved- next!
21
I believe "birthright citizenship" was established by the 14th Amendment to the Constitution, so it seems unlikely that it can predate that same Constitution.
Have you ever considered the fact that while Mr. Trump uses offensive, insulting language to express his views, the complaint he makes about illegal immigration is nonetheless a valid one and one with which millions of Americans agree? They don't necessarily love his "rapist-murderer" rhetoric, but they like the fact that he's articulating opposition to the continuing presence of millions of people who entered the country illegally.
33
Mr. Trump and his fellow passengers in the Republican Clown Car apparently don't understand that many of the people they wish would disappear would already be gone -- at home in their own country -- had the US not, courtesy of the Mexican-American War, seized what is now California, Utah, Nevada, Arizona, and New Mexico. How ignorant we Americans are of our own history.
7
Trump's paternal grandfather immigrated from Germany. I think The Donald should be required to produce documents proving the legality of his citizenship. http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/08/donald-trumps-immigr...
9
This is a very well written and thoughtful piece. Always enjoyable to come across someone who writes well. - Trump's end result will be to have "normalized an extremism whose toxicity is dulled by and is validated by a feckless party."
The author identifies the exact point of the sword, the greatest danger in all of this. We have an entire political party, thankfully representing an ever diminishing proportion of the population, which is collapsing in on itself as it becomes a party supported strongly by only 15% of the population on the far right. But since there are only two parties, it creates the illusion that their position stands on equal footing with that of the other party, the "normalized extremism, of which the author speaks.
Bravo for good writing and thoughtful analysis.
The author identifies the exact point of the sword, the greatest danger in all of this. We have an entire political party, thankfully representing an ever diminishing proportion of the population, which is collapsing in on itself as it becomes a party supported strongly by only 15% of the population on the far right. But since there are only two parties, it creates the illusion that their position stands on equal footing with that of the other party, the "normalized extremism, of which the author speaks.
Bravo for good writing and thoughtful analysis.
3
This is the Republican Party, can anyone alive still believe they follow Trump, " To The Bottom " Reluctantly, on any subject ? The United States has been, 'in Decline since the day we elected that 'B' movie actor to be president. He was giving money to one bunch of criminals so he could send arms to another bunch of criminals. And he managed to Triple the National Debt of the United States in the process. Look at the National Debt, Reagan surpassed One Trillion dollars in debt, and the Republicans have accelerated his massive debt building ever since.
Wars, Massive Spending & Debt for war profiteers, never for Americans who would still have millions without healthcare if it was up to Republicans. I'd vote republican except I just don't hate the United States, so I can't.
Wars, Massive Spending & Debt for war profiteers, never for Americans who would still have millions without healthcare if it was up to Republicans. I'd vote republican except I just don't hate the United States, so I can't.
4
The Donald has tapped into the angst of America's diminished middle class. This fact does not excuse or make valid his offensive nonsense. His bombasts are working because the majority of Americans have seen their fortunes declining. The Reagan revolution gave enormous and growing power to the most wealthy and, not surprisingly, made life worse for the rest. There must be someone to blame and it cannot be the billionaires.
Neither party cares much for the middle class when politicians perceive that big money buys elections. The GOP is simply more astute in appealing to the white, working class male base that it created with the Southern Strategy.
Neither party cares much for the middle class when politicians perceive that big money buys elections. The GOP is simply more astute in appealing to the white, working class male base that it created with the Southern Strategy.
1
I agree that most of these "solutions" offered by Trump are some combination of unworkable, unrealistic and repugnant, but holding employers accountable for illegally employing a workforce of undocumented workers? I thought it was well documented (no pun intended) that, say, chicken processing plants in the south systematically staff their operations with undocumented workers which they then routinely subject to abusive conditions without fear of recourse because of their workforce's fear of deportation. Can anyone seriously pretend that allowing this is somehow good for labor in this country?
1
Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Trump may be off on some of the details, but his general principles on illegal immigration are correct. If you want proof, just visit a public school in where teachers are overwhelmed by illegal immigrant students and those here legally are mashed into overcrowded classrooms. Talk to the high school kid who can't find a summer lawn care job. Speak with the 20-something who wants to rent an apartment and finds zero vacancies. Discuss it with the person waiting patiently in Malawi, hoping to win the Green Card lottery, and in disbelief that the US would actually consider permanent residency for someone who had the power to walk over the border illegally.
There's no way we can solve this problem in a year or two. But with the right, staged combination of eVerify with heavy employer fines, a wall, registration of illegal immigrants under penalty of permanent loss of a possibility of residence, and a goal of a 10% diminution in illegal alien numbers each year over a 10 year period, the 2026 country and election will look very different from the 2016 one. Then, we can focus on expanding a robust, racially and ethnically mixed, planned immigration program that is fair to those who have waited patiently all over the world.
There's no way we can solve this problem in a year or two. But with the right, staged combination of eVerify with heavy employer fines, a wall, registration of illegal immigrants under penalty of permanent loss of a possibility of residence, and a goal of a 10% diminution in illegal alien numbers each year over a 10 year period, the 2026 country and election will look very different from the 2016 one. Then, we can focus on expanding a robust, racially and ethnically mixed, planned immigration program that is fair to those who have waited patiently all over the world.
3
Trump has latched onto the #1 underground issue, simmering for some time now, with the electorate for a great variety of reasons.
Can there be any other reason for the fact that he currently leads in the polls. Suggestions are certainly welcome.
This issue crosses all political, economic, and social lines.
The world cauldron of disorder as it relates to the movement of human beings throughout the world is a central issue of the time.
Thus one of the most important issues, we as a country have to consider today, is that of immigration per se.
Now we refer to it solely as a "reform" matter or issue, which actually leaves a definition of the problem of "immigration" up for grabs.
"Reform" how and in what way is far from clear and no well defined objective or outcome is clearly explained or put forward in any meaningful way by any entity.
At the risk of being viewed as politically incorrect, I conclude that for the most part the great majority of us have come to the following mostly unexpressed conclusion and/or opinion.
Further immigration into this country must come to an end - in spite of the lamp lifted "beside the golden door", traditionally and rightly so in times past.
Therein is the broad theme and today's necessary strategic goal.
The tactical details well be many and varied, but they can no longer be ignored.
For to do so, given world events in a steadily shrinking world, will be at our own great disadvantage, if not at a peril as yet clearly undefined.
Can there be any other reason for the fact that he currently leads in the polls. Suggestions are certainly welcome.
This issue crosses all political, economic, and social lines.
The world cauldron of disorder as it relates to the movement of human beings throughout the world is a central issue of the time.
Thus one of the most important issues, we as a country have to consider today, is that of immigration per se.
Now we refer to it solely as a "reform" matter or issue, which actually leaves a definition of the problem of "immigration" up for grabs.
"Reform" how and in what way is far from clear and no well defined objective or outcome is clearly explained or put forward in any meaningful way by any entity.
At the risk of being viewed as politically incorrect, I conclude that for the most part the great majority of us have come to the following mostly unexpressed conclusion and/or opinion.
Further immigration into this country must come to an end - in spite of the lamp lifted "beside the golden door", traditionally and rightly so in times past.
Therein is the broad theme and today's necessary strategic goal.
The tactical details well be many and varied, but they can no longer be ignored.
For to do so, given world events in a steadily shrinking world, will be at our own great disadvantage, if not at a peril as yet clearly undefined.
Mass deportations of 11 million men, women, and children; throwing out part of the Constitution; deciding who should be a citizen on ethnic and racial grounds; voter suppression of minorities; the closing of clinics that provide essential reproductive health care and cancer screenings for millions of poor women; saying a woman's boss can determine whether she should be able to use her own insurance for contraceptives; forcing a 10-year-old rape victim (Huckabee) or a 13-year-old one (Jeb) to have a baby; forcing women to have babies even if it endangers their own lives or health, or if they are victims of rape or incest; etc.
These are all positions of the current lunatic candidates of the Republican Party. If there are any moderate or rational Republicans left, please lock the doors behind you as you leave the asylum and join the rest of 21st century America.
These are all positions of the current lunatic candidates of the Republican Party. If there are any moderate or rational Republicans left, please lock the doors behind you as you leave the asylum and join the rest of 21st century America.
5
So who you voteing for?
I see all the hand wringing about Trump and his low intellect proposals. But why is he so convincing to many? Because the current crop of politicians managed this country into the ground. We elect idiots, incompetents, egoistical do nothings and spineless do gooders and now we are broke, whole segments of the country are de-industrialized and de-populated and most of all de-spirited. It is easy to point out Trump fascistic ideas but the fact is the people are fed up. Nobody is held accountable, not George Bush for lying us into wars that he consequently lost due to his glaring incompetence. His brother wants to be president now.
Who lost 30 million manufacturing jobs? Politicians bribed by importers like Walmart. With Hillary on the board of directors, no wonder her husband signed our industry away in favor of merchants. She wants to be president now. Why? Does she think she is god's gift to the universe or does she try to fulfill her dreams of power and immortality?
A political house of cards can easily collapse when 2/3 in off years and 1/2 in presidential election years don't vote. This is a vast voter potential that can upset the status quo if someone stimulates it right.
Who lost 30 million manufacturing jobs? Politicians bribed by importers like Walmart. With Hillary on the board of directors, no wonder her husband signed our industry away in favor of merchants. She wants to be president now. Why? Does she think she is god's gift to the universe or does she try to fulfill her dreams of power and immortality?
A political house of cards can easily collapse when 2/3 in off years and 1/2 in presidential election years don't vote. This is a vast voter potential that can upset the status quo if someone stimulates it right.
4
We're not broke and you might want to pay attention to the fact that Trump is aligning himself with the very people you just mentioned.
Until every day Americans address the voting deficit, they will not see the return of the democracy that so many wars were fought to maintain.
Demagogues from the past have blamed ethnics within and outside its borders for the ills and woes afflicting their society and nation over the centuries. The little man with the bar code mustache from the last century used the new media, radio and film, to effectively convey his message. Our new media, the internet, has offered the most opportunistic a platform unsurpassed in effectiveness. When I read editorials like this I see that inhumanity is on the rise, and it should give pause to those who are financing these voices. To the enablers, I say, "Be careful what you wish for.".
3
Trump can take the discourse to as low a level as he wants to. But he is using the democratic process as he sprints towards the presidency. The Republican base probably secretly admires the Brown Shirts of the SA. Trump loves being a demagogue but he is no Adolf Hitler. He is probably the greatest salesman around. If enough Americans want to buy what he sells, he will be our next president. Is that such a scary thought? Can Trump turn the United States into a totalitarian state? Probably not. The United States is not the Weimar Republic of the 1930s. If our democracy gives us Trump as our president, I am sure that the United States will survive intact, and prosper.
The big mistake this editorial makes (maybe deliberately) as well as many of those who are writing comments is to somehow put legal and illegal immigration in the same pot together. The United States has the most open and generous legal immigration system in the world and I believe this should be continued. Illegal immigration on the other hand means a massive breaking of the law that results in hundreds of thousands of unscreened individuals who may be bringing in drugs, disease and terrorism but very little in the way of useful skills.
In effect what the Republican candidates and Donald Trump are doing is to reflect the desires of the majority of the American people to uphold the rule of law and what the Times Editorial Board is doing is just the opposite-supporting the law breakers.
In effect what the Republican candidates and Donald Trump are doing is to reflect the desires of the majority of the American people to uphold the rule of law and what the Times Editorial Board is doing is just the opposite-supporting the law breakers.
2
Trump has merely unearthed the Republicans true constituency. Americans without the depth to consider the consequences of their mistaken beliefs.
They all want lower taxes, but heaven forbid do not let government mess with their Medicare and Social Security.
They want an end to Obamacare, but nearly all the pieces of Obamacare are popular and remain. Except, of course, the part where we pay for it.
But government should not borrow money (from the Chinese?) because borrowing money is bad for households?
So it should come as no surprise that these same people would believe very strongly that our borders should be militarized like a modern Maginot Line. That fruit pickers and roofers who work 12 to 14 hour days for next to nothing should be rounded up and kicked out. And their anchor babies too.
And oh to listen to them squeal when they have to make their own beds in motels and cannot find a fresh orange in the supermarket.
Or when they see the federal deficit to pay for this insanity.
They all want lower taxes, but heaven forbid do not let government mess with their Medicare and Social Security.
They want an end to Obamacare, but nearly all the pieces of Obamacare are popular and remain. Except, of course, the part where we pay for it.
But government should not borrow money (from the Chinese?) because borrowing money is bad for households?
So it should come as no surprise that these same people would believe very strongly that our borders should be militarized like a modern Maginot Line. That fruit pickers and roofers who work 12 to 14 hour days for next to nothing should be rounded up and kicked out. And their anchor babies too.
And oh to listen to them squeal when they have to make their own beds in motels and cannot find a fresh orange in the supermarket.
Or when they see the federal deficit to pay for this insanity.
4
Not one more person, of any color or nationality, is needed in this country. We can meet all labor needs with our own people, although it will be an uncomfortable adjustment for the many who choose public support over working. Assimilation is long-dead, and the American culture becomes increasingly unrecognizable. Illegal immigration is a crime, and this country must have one law equally applied and enforced for all. H1 visas for high tech workers are a sham to allow powerful American employers like Microsoft to keep wages low. The U.S. can certainly produce all the high-tech workers needed, and we have an over-supply of low-tech capable people. I regret the pain that will be caused to all the criminals who have been hiding out over here, taking the wages (and only sometimes paying the taxes) that are legally reserved for our actual citizens. This pain could have been avoided if past administrations (of either party) and the DOJ had done its job.
2
I am sorry Editorial Board, but you are trying to make sound extreme a set of common sense measures supported by Trump. That is because:
1. Every country in the world (save US) has secure borders.
2. Australia (and other countries with a high standard of living ) have a very strict immigration policy. Migrant workers needed for the economy get migrant working visa, which are carefully monitored, and at the end of it, all of the foreign workers have to go back to their home country. So there will be plenty of people to do the jobs done now by illegal aliens, it will be just carefully monitored so said people return to their country of origin.
3) The 14th amendment was 1 ) written 200 years ago when population conditions were vastly different, both nationally and internationally and 2) it was not written for anchor babies or kids of ambassadors.
4) Right now legal immigration is 300 per year from 191 countries, and 600 million a year illegally from Mexico, many of which bring drugs and crime.
5) US citizen should be allowed to decide who and how gets into the country; it shouldn't be decided by the NY Times and other media.
This vast illegal immigration hurts the poor people the most because they will bid for the same jobs undercutting the minimum wage.
1. Every country in the world (save US) has secure borders.
2. Australia (and other countries with a high standard of living ) have a very strict immigration policy. Migrant workers needed for the economy get migrant working visa, which are carefully monitored, and at the end of it, all of the foreign workers have to go back to their home country. So there will be plenty of people to do the jobs done now by illegal aliens, it will be just carefully monitored so said people return to their country of origin.
3) The 14th amendment was 1 ) written 200 years ago when population conditions were vastly different, both nationally and internationally and 2) it was not written for anchor babies or kids of ambassadors.
4) Right now legal immigration is 300 per year from 191 countries, and 600 million a year illegally from Mexico, many of which bring drugs and crime.
5) US citizen should be allowed to decide who and how gets into the country; it shouldn't be decided by the NY Times and other media.
This vast illegal immigration hurts the poor people the most because they will bid for the same jobs undercutting the minimum wage.
2
Mr. Trump is speaking for millions of Americans who think and feel as he does. And he is speaking not merely for Republicans alone. There is a strong feeling among Democratic voters for the same position. With the economy still on shaky ground there is underlying feeling of fear. The fear is three fold.
1. Fear of their own future.
2. Fear of losing their employment
3. Fear of the immigrant both legal as well as illlegal
The belief is if the illegal immigrants are sent home, the borders closed to all foreign workers, and a protective dome is placed over the United States economy including forcing American owned companies to bring back jobs to the US, their economic future and their job security would be more secure. This is the appeal Donald Trump is bringing to the American landscape. This is why his poll numbers are so high.
Donald Trump is voicing the fears of many American workers. He is giving these same workers a solution to their fears. And they are buying into his message. This is why the other Republican candidates are following his lead. They think this will lead them to victory in 2016.
1. Fear of their own future.
2. Fear of losing their employment
3. Fear of the immigrant both legal as well as illlegal
The belief is if the illegal immigrants are sent home, the borders closed to all foreign workers, and a protective dome is placed over the United States economy including forcing American owned companies to bring back jobs to the US, their economic future and their job security would be more secure. This is the appeal Donald Trump is bringing to the American landscape. This is why his poll numbers are so high.
Donald Trump is voicing the fears of many American workers. He is giving these same workers a solution to their fears. And they are buying into his message. This is why the other Republican candidates are following his lead. They think this will lead them to victory in 2016.
OK, so they're going to vote for the party that helps offshore their jobs?
We are reaching a situation similar to what happened in the early years of the 20th century. After 40 to 50 years of immigration the percentage of foreign born residents reached about 15% similar to today. We passed an immigration act in the early 1920's and for over 40 years we severely restricted immigration. This may happen again. The pause which allowed millions to integrate into the American culture was not all bad. In urban areas in Texas, New York, Illinois , Colorado, Arizona, California 30% to 50% of the population live in a culture which is more like El Salvador, Mexico or a bit of Korea and Vietnam . I think many Americans are thinking assimilate these people before you let in millions more. As to Birthright citizenship the four biggest countries to allow it are USA, Canada, Argentina, and Mexico. Zero European countries allow it.
"He would replace the Constitution’s guarantee of citizenship by birth with citizenship by bloodline and pedigree, leaving it to politicians and bureaucrats to decide what to do with millions of stateless children."
The 14th Amendment was to ensure formerly black slaves would be considered citizens. Even American Indians weren't automatically citizens until the Indian citizen Act of 1924. Citizenship granted solely because you were born on US soil makes citizenship a game of Red Rover with the Border Patrol. I hope no one is foolish enough to believe that in 1868 (14th amendment year) that America was consumed with passing an amendment to make illegal aliens' kids citizens.
The 14th Amendment was to ensure formerly black slaves would be considered citizens. Even American Indians weren't automatically citizens until the Indian citizen Act of 1924. Citizenship granted solely because you were born on US soil makes citizenship a game of Red Rover with the Border Patrol. I hope no one is foolish enough to believe that in 1868 (14th amendment year) that America was consumed with passing an amendment to make illegal aliens' kids citizens.
1
If there were only 1 illegal family in the US, there would be ZERO debate what to do. Some functionary would follow the existing law and that would be that.
Problem is that the count is 11 million and that affects the debate by sharply intensifying the arguments.
Now who is in charge of that number? The illegals immigrants.
So if the count goes to 22 million, the debate will intensify again and surely adapt to the higher count.
That is the reason why the border needs to controlled first and I think most Americans understand that.
I am sure that with no worsening of the count, we will work our way through the issue by making way for the hard working immigrants and deporting the criminals and abusers of benefits.
Problem is that the count is 11 million and that affects the debate by sharply intensifying the arguments.
Now who is in charge of that number? The illegals immigrants.
So if the count goes to 22 million, the debate will intensify again and surely adapt to the higher count.
That is the reason why the border needs to controlled first and I think most Americans understand that.
I am sure that with no worsening of the count, we will work our way through the issue by making way for the hard working immigrants and deporting the criminals and abusers of benefits.
1
Trump is right–– and in your heart you know it. Get over your lay-about lazy liberal prejudices and accept the man who can save our country. This country is calcified - - it needs a wake up SHOUT.
Without border control we do not have a country.
Without border control we do not have a country.
The oracle of New York now speaks of himself in the third person, which should fill his followers with anxiety. He listens to and respects no one, and this is a recipe for tyranny. Americans beware!
Why is wrong to insist that immigration laws be enforced? Are some laws meant to be ignored, while others are enforced? Thank goodness that Trump has had the guts to confront this issue. Any honest poll of American public opinion shows that a majority of Americans oppose illegal immigration and want illegal aliens deported. It is the height of stupidity that children born to illegal aliens in the U.S. are granted American citizenship. That law provides fodder for liberals and Democrats to plead for amnesty for all. Do that and the illegal immigration problem will grow exponentially.
Birthright citizenship has helped make U.S. Muslims a model minority community -- educated, striving and politically moderate. Meanwhile, countries like France must cope with an angry generation of disaffected youth who cannot become full citizens or hope for full status for their children. It is a bitter irony that today's Republicans are turning their backs on one of their signature achievements: the 14th Amendment.
Forward thinking cities? Are you mad? Legal citizens are paying for benefits for illegals? Know what they call that? Encouragement.
Liberals often cite the "enlightened" attitudes of europe on things like gun control and health care. Do any of them throw their borders open to any and all without a regard as to what the benefit is? Hello? Anyone?
Once again, I think that the Times is letting it's liberal bias trump (HA!) it's common sense. You think, I suspect, that stacking the electoral deck with poor illegals made legal will assure democratic victories. If that is so, it is really sad.
Liberals often cite the "enlightened" attitudes of europe on things like gun control and health care. Do any of them throw their borders open to any and all without a regard as to what the benefit is? Hello? Anyone?
Once again, I think that the Times is letting it's liberal bias trump (HA!) it's common sense. You think, I suspect, that stacking the electoral deck with poor illegals made legal will assure democratic victories. If that is so, it is really sad.
"..added benefit of being morally defensible." As if that wasn't enough. The realization that we have to rationalize the practical value of what's morally right is as frightening as anything else in the opinion piece.
There is a global phenomena occurring, on both the right and left, where people warm up to people who are refreshing open and unrehearsed. In the UK there are people like Nigel Farage and Jeremy Corbyn who become popular because they eschew party lines and political correctness. Donald Trump falls into that category of candidates that surge because they are different and unafraid to offend. Whether they can ever win power is highly unlikely for many reasons. Trump has offended too many people too crassly to win the nomination much less an election. Corbyn can win the Labour Party leadership, but that is really a tiny part of the electorate made up mostly of champagne socialist of North London and militant unionists. As to Farage, he may well be past his sell by date. That of course can change depending on the migrant situation and whether the Tories have any success in EU negotiations. Bottom line, the public, be it in the US, UK, France, Spain or Greece are no longer impressed with identikit candidates that are afraid to offend.
11
The question Americans have to ask themselves is how long can we as a mature and highly developed society can support seemingly rampant immigration. Although the overwhelming majority of Americans are descendants of immigrants, their ancestors came to these shores at times where both land and low skilled jobs were plentiful, a situation that is nearing saturation in a matter of at best a few decades. To be successful in the long run- the proverbial American dream- requires the availability of affordable education- predominantly professional degrees from colleges and to a lesser extent skilled trades from community colleges. Sadly these paths are barely affordable to Americans and represent an extremely high barrier for children of unskilled immigrants, legal or otherwise. Unless we, as a society, commit ourselves to make education affordable to all, an ever increasing, poorly educated underclass -both native and immigrants- will be a social and moral dilemma for the nation. We certainly have flourished from the strength of our immigrants, but many of those of the past have been highly educated and could contribute to the economy or intellectual excellence from the day they arrived here. This form of immigration has abated, but we should nevertheless encourage this path more extensively, as the economic well being of most past contributing nations have now approached or even surpassed the US in income and opportunities.
21
Firstly, all 12 million did not come here on the same day, they do not need to go home on the same day. Start with making hiring or harboring an illegal 5 years in federal penitentary.
Secondly, birth-right citizenship? We do not grant American citizenship to everyone born in the USA today. Children of people with diplomatic immunity do NOT get American citizenship. The exact wording in the 14th amendment is that the parents must be subject to our laws, which provides an opening to get Congress to clarify exactly what that means.
In any event NO other country gives you citizenship to people just because they are born there, most require your parents be citizens or LEGAL immigrants. I say we charge every illegal $50,000 fine for having a baby in the USA and we'll see how fast that stops. You get the baby when you pay.
Secondly, birth-right citizenship? We do not grant American citizenship to everyone born in the USA today. Children of people with diplomatic immunity do NOT get American citizenship. The exact wording in the 14th amendment is that the parents must be subject to our laws, which provides an opening to get Congress to clarify exactly what that means.
In any event NO other country gives you citizenship to people just because they are born there, most require your parents be citizens or LEGAL immigrants. I say we charge every illegal $50,000 fine for having a baby in the USA and we'll see how fast that stops. You get the baby when you pay.
2
The US is the only country in the world that allows automatic citizenship to the children of illegals. Even progressive Europe does not allow it. Once again Trump is correct in stating that this is a greatly abused loophole which I believe most Americans want closed. As far as the problem of “stateless children” which the Times is so concerned with – how about all the poor American children who now must compete for limited resources- with these “stateless children” and yes he is correct this is an obvious draw to incentivize illegals to come here – if this was stopped the problem of “anchor babies” would also stop quiet quickly. I do not think the framers of the 14 th Amendment envisioned how the interpretation of which is now being wildly abused. The pretense is that all of this is in stone is simply not correct, the amendment allows for flexibility as for example children of diplomats are not included in this. Hopefully in Trump’s first term this can loophole can be quickly closed .
1
So, the NYT solution to the immigration problem is simple. Disband the border patrol. Repeal all laws relating to how people can come to the U.S. Build some extra foot bridges across the Rio Grande so the people flooding in wont get their feet wet.
Provide each person entering with a Medicaid card, $50,000 in cash, a new car, driver license, Social Security card and free vacations to Disneyland.
Good G-D. Where will it all end with you people?
I hope that one of these 'illegal aliens' (horror, I typed a illegal word) has a journalism degree and takes your job away from you.
Provide each person entering with a Medicaid card, $50,000 in cash, a new car, driver license, Social Security card and free vacations to Disneyland.
Good G-D. Where will it all end with you people?
I hope that one of these 'illegal aliens' (horror, I typed a illegal word) has a journalism degree and takes your job away from you.
4
On the other hand. This is a time of growing fear. A time of feeling/being unsafe wherever; whenever. A time of global instability, unrest, brutality, chaos, mass exodus and the head-losing consequences of being different. And it's all played out 24/7 on the news irritating and gnawing at our remaining 9/11 still gaping wounds.
Thus, psychologically speaking, perhaps there is a large/small, conscious/unconscious insecure child-like part of many of us that wants to be safe. That demands safety. Someplace. Anyplace. And is finding expression in a kind of nationalistic thinking/behavior. And that includes reducing or removing differences.
Of course, the rational part of the majority of us rises above insecurity based limited thinking and recognizes that exclusion isn't practical or even ethical. It's not American. Inclusion is. However, for many, like Trump and his buddies, that second part fails to emerge. Thus, they continue to be influenced by the first part. And I believe it's that first part that hungers for safety even if that means exclusion that hooks many of us. The eventual downfall of those ideas? Our better angels.
Thus, psychologically speaking, perhaps there is a large/small, conscious/unconscious insecure child-like part of many of us that wants to be safe. That demands safety. Someplace. Anyplace. And is finding expression in a kind of nationalistic thinking/behavior. And that includes reducing or removing differences.
Of course, the rational part of the majority of us rises above insecurity based limited thinking and recognizes that exclusion isn't practical or even ethical. It's not American. Inclusion is. However, for many, like Trump and his buddies, that second part fails to emerge. Thus, they continue to be influenced by the first part. And I believe it's that first part that hungers for safety even if that means exclusion that hooks many of us. The eventual downfall of those ideas? Our better angels.
21
Finally, a nuanced and big-picture perspective on this issue. Sadly, hoping that a critical mass of the insecure will come to a significant level of realization of this complex socio-politico-pschychological dynamic is probably vain. So, where do we go from here? Mars and Kepler are not yet open to the public...
I'm surprised at the New York Times position.
Fact is, if you have more of something it lowers its price. By the arrival of millions of undocumented aliens, we have created an oversupply of labor.
This displaces citizens' ability to be hired, particularly at the low end of the wage scale. Not complicated, not controversial.
Fact is, if you have more of something it lowers its price. By the arrival of millions of undocumented aliens, we have created an oversupply of labor.
This displaces citizens' ability to be hired, particularly at the low end of the wage scale. Not complicated, not controversial.
2
Assuming these moderators allow this post which they seem to prefer to keep blocking, it is because carlos slim owns a large part of the NYT, and he makes huge amounts of money off of illegals in the US, through his telecom and banking monopolies. When illegals call their families in mexico or send them money, it is done through slim's telecom and banking monopolies, where he gets a cut of every such transaction. There's the reason.
The Dark Skin Side of Government Zoning, Immigration and Private Clubs
We can “Make America Great Again” (Trump’s slogan) by separating the commoners from the talented and the poor from the wealthy. This Trumpian strategy of uses government power to divide and conquer. It is as “natural” as zoning - the same power keeps New York State the most segregated in the country. Children learn to accept the government enforced inequality that increases the housing values of one community and the tax rates in the other.
The southern “wall” Mr. Trump, and too many others, want to build is just another form of zoning that makes it difficult for the poor but does not prevent the free movement of the middle class. When visitors overstay their welcome in the U.S., the “wall” is properly understood as folly. Why sneak in when you can visit and not go home? Some want a powerful political message that “your kind” is not wanted. Just try to buy or even rent in one of Mr. Trump’s neighborhoods. He does not design and build integrated communities.
Ironically, the Trumpian approach is as appealing to wealthy Democrats as it is to wealthy Republicans. The poor can only be accepted if they know their place, follow the rules and idolize wealth with all available government policy. Imagine the possibilities if single family zoning was replaced by family freedom which allowed people of different races to share homes and apartments in one of Trump’s neighborhoods (without being one of the servants).
We can “Make America Great Again” (Trump’s slogan) by separating the commoners from the talented and the poor from the wealthy. This Trumpian strategy of uses government power to divide and conquer. It is as “natural” as zoning - the same power keeps New York State the most segregated in the country. Children learn to accept the government enforced inequality that increases the housing values of one community and the tax rates in the other.
The southern “wall” Mr. Trump, and too many others, want to build is just another form of zoning that makes it difficult for the poor but does not prevent the free movement of the middle class. When visitors overstay their welcome in the U.S., the “wall” is properly understood as folly. Why sneak in when you can visit and not go home? Some want a powerful political message that “your kind” is not wanted. Just try to buy or even rent in one of Mr. Trump’s neighborhoods. He does not design and build integrated communities.
Ironically, the Trumpian approach is as appealing to wealthy Democrats as it is to wealthy Republicans. The poor can only be accepted if they know their place, follow the rules and idolize wealth with all available government policy. Imagine the possibilities if single family zoning was replaced by family freedom which allowed people of different races to share homes and apartments in one of Trump’s neighborhoods (without being one of the servants).
28
The major problem is that there is no possibility of talking seriously with Trump. If you listen to his speeches, you can see that he does not follow a logical line of thought: he jumps from subject to subject, he dismisses difficulties with an assertion of his total knowledge and control, he denigrates opponents, he brags about his money and his intelligence. Without his being aware, he is showing that if you don't admit defeat (or that you are wrong), it doesn't matter what you say or do. The media has to decide whether they want to make available other candidates' ideas or keep on following the three-ringed circus. They are contributing to his ascendency by showing that they prefer to entertain people rather than help them arrive at an informed choice.
5
Thanks, Frank (Durham) for a very lucid description of "communication with
Trump". His Ego is impenetrable. I like the concept that there are, basically,
Two Purposes for Human Communication: One is to Share Information....
The Other is To Control. Imagination Trump in "Diplomatic Discussion".
Trump". His Ego is impenetrable. I like the concept that there are, basically,
Two Purposes for Human Communication: One is to Share Information....
The Other is To Control. Imagination Trump in "Diplomatic Discussion".
1
Social change (demographics) is happening no matter what the Republican party will say or do....Trump is a manifestation of their base instincts which is that of nativism, racism, and their perceived lack of control over economic and social trends....add in lack of success in the mideast which the party has to correct (!!!) and you have what the Democratic Party looked like in the 60s and 70s....a free for all.
Minorities, elderly and women should sit up and take notice as to the pure lack of empathy and sympathy to their socio-economic class.
Hillary may have her email scandal but I would trust her with the nation sooner then all of the others.
Their dance around the military involvement question and their scare tactics about the mideast are similar to what was heard out the mouth of W only a decade ago.
Be careful be very very careful.
Minorities, elderly and women should sit up and take notice as to the pure lack of empathy and sympathy to their socio-economic class.
Hillary may have her email scandal but I would trust her with the nation sooner then all of the others.
Their dance around the military involvement question and their scare tactics about the mideast are similar to what was heard out the mouth of W only a decade ago.
Be careful be very very careful.
4
Ok so we might repeal the 14th Amm. and lose or national citizenship, at least we sont have an email cheat in the White House! I am being ironic
And yet not a word about the "legal" takeover of the high-tech sector by South Asians, nor of the desperate need to improve our educational system so that Americans can get the jobs being given away to H1 visa holders.
Bobby Jindal is the "birthright citizen" of LEGAL IMMIGRANTS. Why don't you show us the poll that demonstrates how most Americans support giving special consideration to people who broke our laws over people who are trying to immigrate to this country while following our laws?
1
Alas, people will just bury their heads in the sand about the role of competitive population growth in the evolution and continuity of war. We don't know what weapons will dominate the next global battllefied, but spears and stones will likely be the main weapons available for follow-on wars.
The Republican Party that sought to reform itself after Romney's divisive performance in 2012 failed for one reason: the "Personality Type" it continually welcomes to its ranks.
A generation ago, Republican leaders spoke like Democratic leaders -- with a tone of inclusiveness. Now, every one of those leaders inhabits a "Personality Type": the Me-Me type whose selfish agenda trumps (pun intended) compromise and wholly dismisses everyone who is not part of the clique.
What's intensely captivating about this election season is that the GOP presidential aspirants are so clueless of their liabilities, they can't recognize that their Party's meltdown has already begun....
A generation ago, Republican leaders spoke like Democratic leaders -- with a tone of inclusiveness. Now, every one of those leaders inhabits a "Personality Type": the Me-Me type whose selfish agenda trumps (pun intended) compromise and wholly dismisses everyone who is not part of the clique.
What's intensely captivating about this election season is that the GOP presidential aspirants are so clueless of their liabilities, they can't recognize that their Party's meltdown has already begun....
1
When you say "strengthening families" you are referring, of course, to the families of foreign criminals, not to the families of legal citizens whose jobs they have usurped.
How about those families paying taxes to provide support and services to people who pay no taxes at all.
Finally, the surviving families of victims of the drug wars imported across our southern border.
But, who cares about those families, they're only Americans.
How about those families paying taxes to provide support and services to people who pay no taxes at all.
Finally, the surviving families of victims of the drug wars imported across our southern border.
But, who cares about those families, they're only Americans.
1
In watching this implosion of the Republican party hopefully something much better will rise from its ashes, stay tuned.
1
Demonizing Mexico (and the Mexican people) in the name of immigration "reform" is nothing less than simplistic sound bite politics trying to a address a very complicated problem. This article in the August 18th issue of the The Economist is the best think I've read thus far on the subject. polhttp://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2015/08/donald-trump-i...
Let's visualize what "exporting" 11 million so-called illegals (and who knows how many of their so-called illegal children) looks like. Will the military be conscripted to drive up & down every street & field in this country to round up people with brown skin, put them in the backs of trucks, & drive them to some ambiguous drop off point? Will we be happier with such ugliness & hate, is that what "taking back America" looks like? A previous commentor mentioned Goebbels, what a frightening prospect. Those who think this is a good idea should ask themselves who's next, facism knows no bounds.
2
Let's be honest, immigration has been swept under the rug by lawmakers for thirty years or more. Western states love cheap labor and, yes, Mexicans could cross over and make a living working as AG or domestic help in the U.S. Who, wants to live in Mexico?
Trump is leading for one reason, he has struck a cord. Every politician needs a narrative, and every narrative needs a villain. He was not going to be getting any latino votes anyway so what's the downside?
The other obvious observation is that Trump is actually the best GOP candidate. He's not elected which gives his a huge advantage over anyone that is. He can say anything and not suffer any repercussions from it.
Lastly, he's easily the most glib from either side. Hillary is a joke, verbally, compared to him. Trump, will eat her alive simply by pointing out how "stupid" she was to have a private email server as Secretary of State. It's even more stupid then Bill wasting the last three years of his Presidency for his stupid mistake.
Bottom line, saying stupid things, that just might get you elected, is not nearly as bad, as doing stupid things.
Trump is leading for one reason, he has struck a cord. Every politician needs a narrative, and every narrative needs a villain. He was not going to be getting any latino votes anyway so what's the downside?
The other obvious observation is that Trump is actually the best GOP candidate. He's not elected which gives his a huge advantage over anyone that is. He can say anything and not suffer any repercussions from it.
Lastly, he's easily the most glib from either side. Hillary is a joke, verbally, compared to him. Trump, will eat her alive simply by pointing out how "stupid" she was to have a private email server as Secretary of State. It's even more stupid then Bill wasting the last three years of his Presidency for his stupid mistake.
Bottom line, saying stupid things, that just might get you elected, is not nearly as bad, as doing stupid things.
1
Please Mr. Trump, if you get in as President, would you mind building a wall between Canada and the US as well? We'll even help you pay for it!
1
I say good. So far the Repubs, led by the Donald have alienated women, Latino's, people benefiting under Obabmacare, environmentalists, those who believe abortion should remain legal and available. Who's left? Stay tuned. :)
1
john z.
Everyone, but everyone, who even remotely supports what the head clown of the republican party advocates is a xenophobic, racists, uncaring pig!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Live with that , you hateful sociopaths!!!!!!!
Everyone, but everyone, who even remotely supports what the head clown of the republican party advocates is a xenophobic, racists, uncaring pig!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Live with that , you hateful sociopaths!!!!!!!
1
It is very frightening to observe how quickly and how easily one demagogue has poisoned the political arena with naked racism, xenophobia, and cruelty. It is no longer hard to imagine (though I don’t think it will get that far), millions of undocumented Latinos, along with their children, driven into “camps”, forced across borders, sick and starving. And what will “real Americans” do? The same thing that was done by “good Germans” 75 years ago?
5
If put into practice, Trump's ideas will increase the demand for native born labor. I am pro labor, and I am a Democrat, and I am tired of trade policies offered by politicians from both parties that undermine labor.
1
Years of FOXing the nation finally pays. Mr Trump for president.
I am, however, still sure the GOP will find a way and means to even step lower.
Please, dear Republican, receive my finest present of disgust.
I am, however, still sure the GOP will find a way and means to even step lower.
Please, dear Republican, receive my finest present of disgust.
2
Thanks to the Editorial Board for spotlighting the incredibly dark underside of the "Donald Trump Comedy Hour." The media in general should be ashamed of the amount of coverage it is giving this man relative to his actual chances of being elected. If Jeb Bush were leading with 24%, would 80% of the political coverage be focused on him? I doubt it. Even MSNBC - the "serious" progressives - are all Trump all the time. Chris Matthews can barely contain his glee! Why do Americans think we have the luxury of wasting time on this type of nonsense when the climate continues to change, jobs continue to disappear and the Middle East continues to implode?
3
There is an anger in Americans that Trump has been able to tap. Ignoring that anger is foolish. Americans expect a level playing field, and we're not seeing that any more.
Those on the left see billionaires writing the laws and manipulating the politicians and are angry about it. Those on the left see money poured into infrastructure in Iraq and Afghanistan and think it should have been spent on infrastructure here at home.
Those on the right see immigrants coming over the borders without going through the legal process, having babies for free at their local hospital, and are angry about it. They see people gaming the system while their own prosperity ebbs, and are angry about it. They see their job at low wages and no benefits while government employees get retirement benefits.
We're all angry these days, left and right, because we're not seeing a level playing field. We have more in common than we think. Whichever pol can tap into that anger on both sides of the spectrum is going to be our next President.
Those on the left see billionaires writing the laws and manipulating the politicians and are angry about it. Those on the left see money poured into infrastructure in Iraq and Afghanistan and think it should have been spent on infrastructure here at home.
Those on the right see immigrants coming over the borders without going through the legal process, having babies for free at their local hospital, and are angry about it. They see people gaming the system while their own prosperity ebbs, and are angry about it. They see their job at low wages and no benefits while government employees get retirement benefits.
We're all angry these days, left and right, because we're not seeing a level playing field. We have more in common than we think. Whichever pol can tap into that anger on both sides of the spectrum is going to be our next President.
1
It's very fitting that Governor Bobby Jindal always seems to be around when the Nonsense Club meets. So, let me get this right, Gov. Jindal is trying to repeal his ability to become President.
Par for the course for the perennial wannabe from Louisiana.
http://thetruthoncommonsense.com
Par for the course for the perennial wannabe from Louisiana.
http://thetruthoncommonsense.com
2
To the point, I would never vote to have either party control both chambers of congress AND the executive branch - way too much power in the hands of one party in this day and age of partisan rhetoric - I thought Marco Rubio presented himself as an articulate and promising leader. However, his comments yesterday about "anchor babies" - uh, indeed subetxtually racist, from the son of Cuban immigrants disgusting no less - showed him to be a follower and typical political opportunist speaking to the subject du jour that was both disappointing and glaring. Frankly, still in disagreement with Rand Paul's overall agenda, at least he was/is willing to call it like it is. This Republican primary is ludicrous to say the least. And, yes, the FBI needs to proceed expeditiously to rule on the subject of Ms. Clinton's email controversy. You turn on FOX and all you see is opportunism run amok once again. Imagine, MSNBC running live on TV the bizarre ramblings of Trump yesterday in NH. I'm no better than most: I actually watched a portion of it, feeling as though I was rubbernecking an accident. Am I the only person who thinks this is an absurd commentary on our place in history, much like the rush to war in the Middle East that took so many American lives in the first years of this century.
Yeah, I'm rambling but I, a baby boomer who witnessed the upheaval of the sixties that produced a sea change in social ideas, see a country that will not be looked upon favorably by historians.
Yeah, I'm rambling but I, a baby boomer who witnessed the upheaval of the sixties that produced a sea change in social ideas, see a country that will not be looked upon favorably by historians.
1
This anti-immigration sentiment is not new. In the 1880s-1890s there was a strong backlash to the number of immigrants coming to this country from Eastern and Southern Europe and again in the 1920s which led to a series of anti-immigration laws. Donald Trump and the rest of the candidates would fit well in that time period.
There's one good solution to counter the "ideas" of the current GOP: get out and vote!
There's one good solution to counter the "ideas" of the current GOP: get out and vote!
3
Trump's farse and bullyism seems to be carrying the republican presidential candidates by their nose's ring, giving an immigrant's country a black eye...and worse. Confusion galore, angry words flying out of his mouth and nostrils, and who knows from where else (Trump's own words, remember?), having pusillanimous lost-in-the-fog also-running fellows trying to outdo each other in a loon's pursuit of intolerance. As we seem to tolerate buffoons with gusto, a reasonable question arises: Who are we?
3
I guess 3000 dead Texans over the period of 2008-2014 is not enough for the NYTimes editorial board. Forward.
3
Can you also provide the number of Americans shot by other American citizens in the last ten years?
It is hard to know -- beyond repulsion -- what to think of The Donald's campaign. Is he really so nuts? If we wipe the flecks of foam off his chin (sure don't want any of that to be caught in his hair -- maybe that's why he's always wearing that goofball cap?), can an explanation emerge that doesn't confirm all the negative truths outlined in this editorial? The Donald is, sort of, a Wall Street deal guy; could he be the living embodiment of a poison pill?
4
A show of hands, please: How many reading and commenting here found high school American History fascinating? Couldn't wait for the next day's class, devoured the entire textbook in the first week of the school year addictive?
Anyone? Anyone?
For the rest of us, allow me to recommend a tome by James W. Loewen, "Lies My Teacher Told Me." First published 20 years ago, this book should be required reading for all Americans. Unfortunately, "requiring" anything makes that thing unappealing.
Forbidding a thing, on the other hand, makes that activity suddenly and deliciously exciting. So, I am going to take the moral high ground here and FORBID any of you to read this book. FORBID it, lest you suffer the inevitable: increased intelligence, deeper understanding of why we are in this mess, and disgust (if that is even possible) with the state of political discourse today.
Suffice it to say, if all of this year's Republican presidential aspirants had read "LIes," none would be out there on their soapboxes telling them. Which indicates to me that not a single one, especially Trump, has even heard of this book.
DON'T READ THIS BOOK!
Anyone? Anyone?
For the rest of us, allow me to recommend a tome by James W. Loewen, "Lies My Teacher Told Me." First published 20 years ago, this book should be required reading for all Americans. Unfortunately, "requiring" anything makes that thing unappealing.
Forbidding a thing, on the other hand, makes that activity suddenly and deliciously exciting. So, I am going to take the moral high ground here and FORBID any of you to read this book. FORBID it, lest you suffer the inevitable: increased intelligence, deeper understanding of why we are in this mess, and disgust (if that is even possible) with the state of political discourse today.
Suffice it to say, if all of this year's Republican presidential aspirants had read "LIes," none would be out there on their soapboxes telling them. Which indicates to me that not a single one, especially Trump, has even heard of this book.
DON'T READ THIS BOOK!
2
If you spend sixty minutes grazing the right wing nut blogs, the racist and nativist voices are clearly the loudest, and arguably the most popular.
Even before Trump entered the scene, Rubio, Bush, even Cruz the elitist, were mistrusted on the immigration issue and referred to as 'tainted.' No detective work needed.
Trump hasn't 'poisoned' the Republican debate, he has simply made its appeal and convictions honest and transparent.
Trump is not a 'faux-populist,' he's an enthusiastic and self-possessed demagogue and narcissist having the time of his life.
Even before Trump entered the scene, Rubio, Bush, even Cruz the elitist, were mistrusted on the immigration issue and referred to as 'tainted.' No detective work needed.
Trump hasn't 'poisoned' the Republican debate, he has simply made its appeal and convictions honest and transparent.
Trump is not a 'faux-populist,' he's an enthusiastic and self-possessed demagogue and narcissist having the time of his life.
4
We have never been an illegal immigrant welcoming nation. We got into the present mess because of our DMV/Post Office/VA/Amtrak Federal government's inability to enforce clear, longstanding, law.
3
How do you propose to fix this?
The fact is that Obama had the Democratic control of the House and Senate for his first two years and didn't pass immigration reform. He let this mess happen. And Obama has deported more individuals than any other president in American history.
1
There is a widely approved bipartisan immigration reform bill from the Senate that the GOP House won't bring up for a vote. The president would sign that bill immediately. Not everything is the president's fault.
Patent nonsense, net immigration has decreased during Obama's tenure.
Try to imagine yourself a low/no-skilled American worker. For the last 30 years, immigrants have been flooding your trade or your job category. Your wages have been dropping because of the oversupply of cheap labor (which is how the Koch brothers, who supported S744, like it). You have no financial security and no social capital. If you're employed, you live in fear of losing your job; if you are unemployed, you can probably forget about regaining your job because the crews are now run by Spanish speakers, who hire their own. (Talk about assimilation!)
this is why Trump has taken off in the polls. this is why Republicans, who campaigned on amnesty as bad labor policy, swept the midterms, and why Blue State Oregon voted 2:1 to kill drivers licenses for illegal aliens, despite having been outspent by proponents of drivers' licesnes by 10:1 (where did that money come from?).
this is why Trump has taken off in the polls. this is why Republicans, who campaigned on amnesty as bad labor policy, swept the midterms, and why Blue State Oregon voted 2:1 to kill drivers licenses for illegal aliens, despite having been outspent by proponents of drivers' licesnes by 10:1 (where did that money come from?).
8
Fair enough. Provide the stats on the American dishwashers, hotel maids and farm workers who lost their jobs. As American citizens they would have collected unemployment so this is pretty easy to track.
While you're at it, please tell me why these angry, unemployed people are so happy to fawn all over one of the white guys who gave these illegal immigrants their jobs?
While you're at it, please tell me why these angry, unemployed people are so happy to fawn all over one of the white guys who gave these illegal immigrants their jobs?
So the NY Times is concerned the Republican party will lose the Hispanic vote? What is the Hispanic vote anyway? If you are of Latin heritage do you automatically favor open borders? Is there something in your biological make up that causes you to insist that anyone who wants to come to this country, by whatever means, is entitled to stay and to have their children granted full citizenship? If your name is Martinez do you look around and conclude America is doing such a great job providing opportunity to her current citizens that we should open the gates to millions more without regard to qualifications? We read the same tired lines from the NY Times as we watch the decline of the European-American, Hispanic-American, African-American, Asian-American, or whatever category-American you want to create. The current non and selective enforcement of our immigration laws is not working and as a result a record number of Americans of all backgrounds are not working either. And the NY Times solution is to codify the status quo and to demonize anyone seeking to enforce our constitutionally enacted laws; to vilify any call to limit citizenship to immigrants of law abiding origin.
7
The fact that Jeb Bush was on a podium with Donald Trump and failed to raise the issue of Trump's comments about Mexicans is sickening. He had an opportunity to denounce Trump out of decency and in defence of Mexicans but didn't have the guts to do it. Where was the support for his wife. his wife's family and his own children who are one half Mexican.
6
Trump is the candidate of the emerging Feral Republic of North America.
3
The fact many of the other candidates are jumping on the Trump deportation train should clearly tell all Americans what today's GOP stands for...
G reatly
R ewarded
E conomic
E xpansion
D irectives
They don't care how many of us are poor, sick, in debt or unemployed, as long as they're coddled by billionaires in their campaign funds.
G reatly
R ewarded
E conomic
E xpansion
D irectives
They don't care how many of us are poor, sick, in debt or unemployed, as long as they're coddled by billionaires in their campaign funds.
6
Too bad we can't persuade several GOP billionaires to buy an island and persuade Trump he can be president of a tiny country. The former is far more likely than the latter. But truly we are getting to the kind of territory where you lock somebody up. For their good and the good of society.
On the island Mr Trump can build his wall. A beautiful wall! And the billionaires can pay some actors to be deported to the other side of the wall. He can hold rallies, there can be a state fair. Everything he needs. Reporters. TV.
We have gone round the bend as a nation. Many of the GOP candidates have shown themselves to be craven toadies. Lunatics who will say anything, do anything - to pacify Trump, who is so adept at turning on an opponent.
RIP: GOP
On the island Mr Trump can build his wall. A beautiful wall! And the billionaires can pay some actors to be deported to the other side of the wall. He can hold rallies, there can be a state fair. Everything he needs. Reporters. TV.
We have gone round the bend as a nation. Many of the GOP candidates have shown themselves to be craven toadies. Lunatics who will say anything, do anything - to pacify Trump, who is so adept at turning on an opponent.
RIP: GOP
8
Democratic policies would drive all the billionaires out of this country. Then who will pay for all the free stuff the Democrats love to give away? Great idea. See how well that works out for you.
The New York Times editorial board applauds cities like New York City and states like California that “have taken assertive steps, offering official documents like driver’s licenses and identity cards, and tuition breaks and other means of inclusion, to offer immigrants opportunities, all for the common good.” California now issues professional licenses to illegal immigrants and permits illegal immigrants to hold elected positions. So, perhaps the solution would be to permit cities and states to modify federal immigration laws as they see fit. Permit cities like New York City and states like California to turn themselves into sanctuaries for illegal immigrants. Permit other cities and states to enact laws that make it unlawful for illegal immigrants to reside or work within their jurisdictions.
5
Name the illegal immigrants holding elected office in California.
"Forward-thinking cities like NYC and forward-thinking states like CA"? Surely you jest. America doesn't want to join these entities in their dysfunction. You criticize Rubio and Bush for their muted defense of birthright citizenship. I would love to see you or anyone else make a full-throated defense of that indefensible practice. Kasich declared that it has been the fabric of American life for decades. Well, so was slavery, and denying women the vote, and that didn't make it right. Please, tell me how you defend the practice of giving citizenship to a child of a mother who had no legal right to be here.
8
Trump is absolutely correct about illegal immigrants (more appropriately, illegal criminal invaders), and everyone knows it!
7
I discount any comment that includes "everyone knows."
2
Then perhaps I should clarify as "everyone with common sense knows."
1
It's rather awesome (and not in a good way) how the GOP candidates express disdain for Trump and then basically follow him down the rabbit hole like rudderless, unprincipled politicians.
I hope when the smoke clears from this election that GOP voters do some soul searching. I long for the day where we can have principled, intelligent, and morally valid right/left debates.
I hope when the smoke clears from this election that GOP voters do some soul searching. I long for the day where we can have principled, intelligent, and morally valid right/left debates.
4
Trump is on the right track to get something working. We cannot give away the country. The middle class is tapped out and cannot pay more in taxes. If need more tax revenue tax the rich who are using illegal immagrants as cheap untaxed labor. Close the goddam border.
3
Great idea. Do you realize that your tax dollars will have to be used to hire all of the staff needed to deport people and secure the border? Are you OK with that?
Trump, and the rest of the Republican Clown Car, wouldn't have to lift a finger to deport anyone should one these lunatics win the Presidency; the lines asking for asylum to get into Canada and Mexico will stretch from coast to coast. And it won't be just illegal immigrants who leave the Confederacy of Dunces.
4
The only value of the excess that The Donald offers on this issue is that it effectively counters the equal or greater excess of the left in its conviction that illegal immigrants are “Americans in waiting”, that have some presumptive right to be here, to work and make lives and build families here, without ever having paid the slightest attention to our laws or shown the slightest recognition of the countless who have waited for years on line to come here legally. To the left, this osmotic movement of peoples across frontiers for economic reasons, not just here but globally, is a natural right – why even bother with borders? What IS a culture but a collection of prejudices, anyway?
Guess what? Americans don’t buy your conviction. Trump’s unlikely candidacy simply gets a renewed lease on life because while his presentation certainly is excessive, its primary themes resonate with an America tired of having the left express so contemptuous a view of a culture that has driven such historical success that they think nothing of attenuating it and destroying it by accepting illegal shocks in unassimilable numbers – by exponents of cultures that have attained far less notable historical successes.
Other Republicans simply recognize America’s impatience with the left on illegal immigration. Hopefully, the eventual solutions will be more human than Trump’s, but they’re likely to be as effective.
Guess what? Americans don’t buy your conviction. Trump’s unlikely candidacy simply gets a renewed lease on life because while his presentation certainly is excessive, its primary themes resonate with an America tired of having the left express so contemptuous a view of a culture that has driven such historical success that they think nothing of attenuating it and destroying it by accepting illegal shocks in unassimilable numbers – by exponents of cultures that have attained far less notable historical successes.
Other Republicans simply recognize America’s impatience with the left on illegal immigration. Hopefully, the eventual solutions will be more human than Trump’s, but they’re likely to be as effective.
1
Very nicely put. Can you tell us how conservatives will go about paying for all those deportations?
How about your plans for replacing all that cheap labor?
How about your plans for replacing all that cheap labor?
... And the press is following the entire Republican circus parade to the bottom in its coverage.
Just today, we have a story about Scott Walker's pathetic attempt to channel The Donald's bombast, apparently to convey more "passion." Another article covers duelling New Hampshire town meetings between Jeb? and The Donald, with The Donald assuring us that his yet-to-be-articulated policy positions would be "wonderful!" (I feel better much now.)
For all the ink and air time the media are giving to the side show, a reader would be right to conclude that substance doesn't matter.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
Just today, we have a story about Scott Walker's pathetic attempt to channel The Donald's bombast, apparently to convey more "passion." Another article covers duelling New Hampshire town meetings between Jeb? and The Donald, with The Donald assuring us that his yet-to-be-articulated policy positions would be "wonderful!" (I feel better much now.)
For all the ink and air time the media are giving to the side show, a reader would be right to conclude that substance doesn't matter.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
6
You can forget about limiting climate change without stabilizing the global population. The whole oceanic ecosystem will be crumbling from acidification by the end of this century if business continues as usual.
6
Trump appeals to the LCD, Lowest common denominator.
They of course are the little minded core of the GOP.
They of course are the little minded core of the GOP.
4
All newly elected Presidents have ideas. Congress is the one who will decide - keeping in mind when Trump wins, he will have a mandate that Congress must respect.
I'm no fan of Republicans, but I have always felt birthright citizenship is abused. As a resident of Texas, for a Mexican mother to be a good mom, is to cross the border into Texas to give birth - knowing her child can no be educated and live in America and if the entire family sneaks into America, Americans will not expel us because Niño is an American citizen.
Placing a wall on the border? Well the landowners along the border do not want. You have to respect their concerns. The American government would have to purchase the land and then build a wall. How about electronics. I'm sure silicone valley can create something to detect humans moving across the border. I guess it would be costly, but nothing good is cheap.
I am a die hard Democrat. I am voting for Trump. So is my mother, wife, and sister and step daughter - and they are not registered Republicans. You poll people out there, don't forget about us!
I'm no fan of Republicans, but I have always felt birthright citizenship is abused. As a resident of Texas, for a Mexican mother to be a good mom, is to cross the border into Texas to give birth - knowing her child can no be educated and live in America and if the entire family sneaks into America, Americans will not expel us because Niño is an American citizen.
Placing a wall on the border? Well the landowners along the border do not want. You have to respect their concerns. The American government would have to purchase the land and then build a wall. How about electronics. I'm sure silicone valley can create something to detect humans moving across the border. I guess it would be costly, but nothing good is cheap.
I am a die hard Democrat. I am voting for Trump. So is my mother, wife, and sister and step daughter - and they are not registered Republicans. You poll people out there, don't forget about us!
7
Oh please. No you are no where near being anything close to a Democrat. Really. Dixiecrat maybe. There is not any piece of what you describe that wou find on anything except the GOPTP platform.
It's baffling that the cruder Donald Trump gets, the bigger his approval rating gets?
His statements and attitude, ten, twenty years ago, would have silenced him forever.
But now it just pumps him and a majority of Republican voters up.
It will be interesting to see how far these voters will take him.
His statements and attitude, ten, twenty years ago, would have silenced him forever.
But now it just pumps him and a majority of Republican voters up.
It will be interesting to see how far these voters will take him.
3
It will be scary, actually.
2
There is a fundamental misunderstanding in this editorial. Donald Trump is leading in no way, rather he is holding up a mirror to the Republican Party and reflecting what has been the views of the majority of the political in that party for over decade. If Trump is a monster then he was created by the Dr. Frankensteins of the right.
5
When will elected Republican in the Senate and the House switch party or become independents in protest? Cowards. None will do what is right. They want to keep their job. All of them to the ash pan.
3
NOt like theDemocrats who don't care about their jobs but only care about the country and the 25 million unemployed Americans and vets.
This editorial willfully refuses to address the real issue and instead opts for name calling.
The real issue is do people entering the US have the right to ignore US law while they do it?
Does the US like every other nation have an obligation to insure that laws are obeyed?
The people Trump rails against are not immigrants, they are people who have said that US law does not matter if I want to break that law.
This simply can't be allowed as the next step is why should anyone obey any law if they want to do something else.
The real issue is do people entering the US have the right to ignore US law while they do it?
Does the US like every other nation have an obligation to insure that laws are obeyed?
The people Trump rails against are not immigrants, they are people who have said that US law does not matter if I want to break that law.
This simply can't be allowed as the next step is why should anyone obey any law if they want to do something else.
2
Actually no - he is railing against and demaining immigrants, and their familes.
Is the U.S. willing to pay the money to make all this happen? Will U.S. be willing to pick produce, wash dishes etc.? Will U.S. citizens pay more for food and lodging to accommodate the increased labor costs?
If you so badly want to be 'rid of the illegals' then jail and take the monies of any and everybody that hires them at under minimum wage and dangerous work conditions, and keeps them silent with threats of turning them in to the authorities.
The Billionaire Class would be first on the list!
The Billionaire Class would be first on the list!
This is one of those times that I want to propose sending back where they came from anyone who can't prove their ancestors were here before 1776. Or if their ancestors were enslaved whenever they may also stay. Just as logical as the Donald's proposals.
3
Trump is crazy, but I'm confused about the Times position on immigration. Since the word "illegal" was never used in the article, is the Times supportive of instant citizenship for anyone who manages to make it across the border? There seems to be no distinction between legal and illegal entry to this country.
17
As an immigrant to this country, I've noticed that the word "immigrant" is frequently used as a pejorative without the word "illegal" preceding it. Given that Trump also wants to rescind the green card programme entirely, I would say, yes, the anti-immigration xenophobic sentiments in this country are directed at *all* immigrants, legal or otherwise.
I'm not going to defend Trump, but I think you are projecting here. Further, my comment was regarding the NY Times position. If they are for "open borders" then the EB should just come out and say that.
So advocating that we follow the law ie deport illegal aliens who have either overstayed their visas or crossed the border illegally is a race to the bottom?
Advocating that we prioritize the worker rights of American Citizens is a race to the bottom?
Advocating that we enforce our border security laws is a race to the bottom? There is OPEN gun fighting across the border nearly daily and yet NYTimes advocates no action??
Ending our INSANE policy of anchor babies is a race to the bottom? Mind you No other country in the entire WORLD has such a policy...And a thoughtful review of the law as originally written clearly shows it was never intended to be used as it is today.
Advocating that businesses do not unduly profit from workers who legally have little to no rights is a race to the bottom? Illegal Aliens are taken advantage of every day by their employers.
I expect better from you NY Times. You are better than this. Enforcement of the law is not a race to the bottom. Putting Americans first is not a race to the bottom.
Failure to protect the sovereignty and integrity of one's country and economy surely is a race to the bottom and we are rapidly headed downward....
Advocating that we prioritize the worker rights of American Citizens is a race to the bottom?
Advocating that we enforce our border security laws is a race to the bottom? There is OPEN gun fighting across the border nearly daily and yet NYTimes advocates no action??
Ending our INSANE policy of anchor babies is a race to the bottom? Mind you No other country in the entire WORLD has such a policy...And a thoughtful review of the law as originally written clearly shows it was never intended to be used as it is today.
Advocating that businesses do not unduly profit from workers who legally have little to no rights is a race to the bottom? Illegal Aliens are taken advantage of every day by their employers.
I expect better from you NY Times. You are better than this. Enforcement of the law is not a race to the bottom. Putting Americans first is not a race to the bottom.
Failure to protect the sovereignty and integrity of one's country and economy surely is a race to the bottom and we are rapidly headed downward....
16
Republicans are embarking on a path toward political racial cleansing. A desperate last pitch to prevent the inevitable. But the inevitable is just that - inevitable.
7
Bunk. The Republican party wants our existing immigration laws enforced. You obviously don't. Meanwhile, the Democrat party is embarking on a path towards encouraging even more illegal immigration and amnesty for every illegal alien residing in America. All in their effort to pander to illegals with citizenship and full taxpayer funded benefits to buy their votes.
“Some candidates are even willing to try to trump Mr. Trump in xenophobia: Mr. Carson is talking about using armed military drones at the border. That’s right — bombing Arizona.”
“That’s right -- bombing Arizona.” This from the NYT Editorial Board! Seems the Times has succumb to the same kind of debasing inclination to join the cage fight that Trump is so wantonly and knowingly stoking.
Americans are profoundly frustrated with governance, especially as it emanates from Washington. The stereotypical, over the top partisan election blather is less satisfying than ever. What is rapidly metastasizing under Trump’s boorish tutelage is like red meat thrown into a pack of starving dogs.
Trump is not the elemental problem, he is just another bizarre symptom, another improbable aberration of the underlying malady which is the underlying condition of our profoundly dysfunctional, fractured, money driven, partisan politics and a two party system that has inexorably and progressively divided our country.
When the dust settles in early 2017, the brawl will be perpetuated on steroids, the divide will be even more unbridgeable, and any possibility of real solutions will be even more improbable.
This is the clear and present seminal threat to our democracy and our national viability.
“That’s right -- bombing Arizona.” This from the NYT Editorial Board! Seems the Times has succumb to the same kind of debasing inclination to join the cage fight that Trump is so wantonly and knowingly stoking.
Americans are profoundly frustrated with governance, especially as it emanates from Washington. The stereotypical, over the top partisan election blather is less satisfying than ever. What is rapidly metastasizing under Trump’s boorish tutelage is like red meat thrown into a pack of starving dogs.
Trump is not the elemental problem, he is just another bizarre symptom, another improbable aberration of the underlying malady which is the underlying condition of our profoundly dysfunctional, fractured, money driven, partisan politics and a two party system that has inexorably and progressively divided our country.
When the dust settles in early 2017, the brawl will be perpetuated on steroids, the divide will be even more unbridgeable, and any possibility of real solutions will be even more improbable.
This is the clear and present seminal threat to our democracy and our national viability.
1
Review your history. Failing to stand up to the showman with the little moustache, ended in the death of millions
Can you imagine our Republican "leaders" responding to the level of catastrophic immigration facing the E.U. countries? What would the Donald do?
6
He would do what Italy is doing right now, which is to turn back boatloads of illegal immigrants from Africa before they reach Italian shores. Or what England is doing by preventing illegals residing illegally in France from bum rushing the Channel Tunnel to get to England because France is sick of them. And he would be correct in doing so.
This is a great way to improve the GOPs chances of keeping their grip on power. Since we can't win the hearts of the immigrant community, let's simply disenfranchise them and reduce their voter count.
Similarly with African-Americans, young voters, women, college students and teachers.
Similarly with African-Americans, young voters, women, college students and teachers.
6
It's not legal immigrants, it's illegal immigrants, although you'd never know that from this article. It's not that hard to understand.
Don't forget Union families!
Not all republicans are racist xenophobes but for the life of me, I cannot recall his name right now.
7
It looks like the time has come to change the inscription on the Statue of Liberty to "We will deport 'your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free. ' " Or better yet, we could deport the Statue of Liberty back to France. Or at least extinguish the light in the flame of her torch.
What has become of this nation's founding principles when the self-serving and entitled immigration policies of these Republican candidates garner so much support from so many ?
What has become of this nation's founding principles when the self-serving and entitled immigration policies of these Republican candidates garner so much support from so many ?
6
NOT ONE of the illegals, we are talking about here, ever passed through Ellis Island and immigrated legally, according to law. Just sayin'...
You insult my grandparents with your comments. They came through Ellis Island from Russia to escape communist oppression in 1917. They were quarantined on the island until their family sponsor in Brooklyn assured authorities that he had jobs lined up for them and a place to live. My grandmother then scrubbed floors for a living to put my father through college, and she became an American citizenship. My father often told me that the proudest day of her life was being sworn in as a citizen, followed by a group trip to Washington, D.C. They played by the rules and emigrated lawfully. That's the difference between my grandparents and illegal aliens today. Get a clue about obeying the law.
Everyone knows that since Reagan, Limbaugh and Fox, xenophobia is one of the core values of the Republican Party. The only candidates at risk with GOP voters on the immigration issue are Bush and Rubio.
4
Okay Donald, how are you going to determine who gets deported? I have family members named Gonzales who have never been to Mexico and don't speak Spanish. I worked with a fellow that was brought here from Canada as an infant and wasn't aware he didn't have American citizenship until much later in life. I also worked with another from a Caribbean island nation who spent four years serving in our nation's military. Many members of our armed forces are like this, wanting to be Americans and willing to serve to prove it. Are these the people you would use to enforce your forcible expulsion policy? I want to see when the storm troopers come for the likes of Bobby Jindal and Ted Cruz.
8
Aren't those two legal immigrants? Sorry about your friend, but what were his parents thinking? If we just ignore it, it will go away? When you break the law there are consequences. What do you tell all the unemployed African-Americans? Sorry, you're not that important?
I guess I don't understand how an undocumented person could serve in the armed forces. Don't they need a social security number? Don't they have to pay taxes? Has the government been accepting fake documentation?
Maybe Trump is a Democrat plant? Couldn't be more helpful to them. Unless Hillary implodes, the Dems have won POTUS again.
2
Hillary is imploding but the Clintons always come back.
Great Trump is stirring the p0t. What France and Britain are dealing with re immigration is next stop USA.
3
The tone and tenor of this editorial informs me that the Times has reached the disquieting conclusion – to it – that Donald Trump is very likely to be the next President of the United
States.
While not a complete Donald man myself, I am nonetheless extremely grateful to him for helping inform the Times that Americans still believe that this is the greatest country that ever was or ever will be, do not hate rich people, distrust Iran, support Israel,
want strict controls put on illegal immigration, are against killing, looting and arson in our cities no matter the cause and want the next President to be all about job, jobs and more jobs.
And I look forward with great anticipation to standing with him on January 20, 2017 at the docks in New York City where the luxury ocean liners are berthed, wrapped in the flag, where we will be waving goodbye to the editors and columnists of the Times as they depart for the politically correct climes of Sweden, Denmark and Norway.
States.
While not a complete Donald man myself, I am nonetheless extremely grateful to him for helping inform the Times that Americans still believe that this is the greatest country that ever was or ever will be, do not hate rich people, distrust Iran, support Israel,
want strict controls put on illegal immigration, are against killing, looting and arson in our cities no matter the cause and want the next President to be all about job, jobs and more jobs.
And I look forward with great anticipation to standing with him on January 20, 2017 at the docks in New York City where the luxury ocean liners are berthed, wrapped in the flag, where we will be waving goodbye to the editors and columnists of the Times as they depart for the politically correct climes of Sweden, Denmark and Norway.
13
Oh wow. Rounding up those who disagree with you is just a bit premature don't you think. Do the demographics, read the Constitution, turn off Fox
It seems strange Mr. Trump claims "they're taking our jobs". That remark reverses the mantra of George W. Bush who rallied us around "They fill the jobs none of us want to do." With so many of our preferred jobs being offshored, what is left are only the "jobs no one wants to do.": picking tomatoes, janitorial work, chasing carts at Walmart, flipping burgers at MCDonalds,.... New college graduates are filling those jobs, often for years, until they can find a good career from the dregs that are left. What is really left of our nation for anyone to want to come here?
2
You just don't get it. Most Americans, even readers of the Times, view the creation by illegals of "anchor babies" as morally indefensible.
15
Really? How did you come to be the spokesperson for most Americans?
First, kicking 11 million people out of our nation is a ridiculous idea. It is inhumane, Absurd. Imagine people being arrested, swat clad black clothed enforcers going after little children, to lock them and their families up to send them back to a home they've never known--The terror, the woe, the screaming. This would not be any America I would want to recognize or live in. If one wants to solve this problem the people to go after are the employers. Eliminate the hiring and you eliminate the jobs. Let the 11 million stay here, and then fine and imprison employers who hire workers without documentation or valid social security numbers. The logistics would be much simpler, and it would get rid of the hypocrisy latent in our system. A situation that condemns other human beings from seeking a better life while calling them illegals, but lets legal American employers hire them. If American employers refused to hire ‘illegals’ there would be no job loss for Americans
4
The only people who are really entitled to a "deport 'em all position" are our downtrodden Native Americans. As a second-generation member of a Holocaust family, Donald Trump has clearly crossed a very red line for me. His position on immigrants goes well beyond "scapegoating," and "racism," it reeks of the racial purity that characterized fascism. Trump reminds me of the strutting, stuff-shirt braggart, Benito Mussolini, who coined this abhorrent totalitarian term and was a part of the original "axis of evil." Anyone willing to rip up our Constitution for such inhumane purposes is clearly unworthy of holding any elected office where they must swear to "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."
10
This is better than summer re runs.
2
Unless you happen to be Mexican. Or have a Spanish accent. Or Spanish last name. Or are brown skinned.
Unless you're an indigenous Native American, we're all illegals to some degree, given how Europeans simply "took" North America. How many non-Native Americans now screaming about "illegals" had their ancestors sneak into this country for 300 years around the back of Ellis Island? It is the pinnacle of brain-dead hypocrisy.
6
That's such a puerile argument. Please, come up with something a little more original, something that's not from middle school. We have nation states and borders today, that's what we're dealing with. Grow up.
And how many people who rail against rape are descended from rapists? All of us have rape somewhere in our ancestry. That doesn't make it right.
Let's face it - most of the GOP candidates are hollow men (and one woman).
During the debate, none of them could muster the courage or the acumen to take a stand on defending women against the silly and outrageous attack by Trump.
They stood there clueless, staring at the lights, reviewing their talking points of the night.
During the debate, none of them could muster the courage or the acumen to take a stand on defending women against the silly and outrageous attack by Trump.
They stood there clueless, staring at the lights, reviewing their talking points of the night.
4
"its immense cruelty in seeking to reduce millions of people to poverty and hopelessness"
What about the immense cruelty illegal aliens impose upon the American citizens whose jobs they steal - often off-the-books and therefore untaxed?
There are 94 million Americans of working age who are not working. Millions more are underemployed. They must be a priority over foreigners whose first act in America was to break our very liberal immigration laws.
What about the immense cruelty illegal aliens impose upon the American citizens whose jobs they steal - often off-the-books and therefore untaxed?
There are 94 million Americans of working age who are not working. Millions more are underemployed. They must be a priority over foreigners whose first act in America was to break our very liberal immigration laws.
15
Right, because Americans have been clamoring to clean hotel rooms, wash dishes and pick produce.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/farmer-says-his-strawberry-harvest-depends-o...
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/farmer-says-his-strawberry-harvest-depends-o...
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
4
In 1886, when the Statue of Liberty with its famous people was dedicated, the United States accepted just over 300,000 legal immigrants. Today, the United States accepts about million legal permanent immigrants each year, more than all other nations of the world combined.
The GOP candidates will swing in whatever direction the wind takes them. They have been veering to the far, far radical right for so long, this direction with trying to out Donald the Donald on immigration is certainly not a surprise.
The idea that the US government can round up 11 million people and haul them back to Mexico is a childish, brutal fantasy and Trump knows it. He along with the other GOP disaster crew will say anything to stir up the base- and indeed, the base is so easily manipulated by the wedge issue du jour. No one ever accused the red state GOP base of having critical thinking skills... and you wonder why the GOP never wants to fund education?
The idea that the US government can round up 11 million people and haul them back to Mexico is a childish, brutal fantasy and Trump knows it. He along with the other GOP disaster crew will say anything to stir up the base- and indeed, the base is so easily manipulated by the wedge issue du jour. No one ever accused the red state GOP base of having critical thinking skills... and you wonder why the GOP never wants to fund education?
4
What ever happened to our belief in the inscription on the Statue of Liberty:
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
Would Trump also rip this off the Statue of Liberty - along with some of our values?
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
Would Trump also rip this off the Statue of Liberty - along with some of our values?
2
He would probably put "Trump" on that statue - that's the way he operates.
The reason that Trump is soaring in the polls is because he has the guts to say what is politically incorrect but what many Americans believe or want to be true. Yes, he is disgusting and crude with his comments but what he says has the ring of truth. How he would implement the changes he wants for so many areas of how our country runs things is a mystery. If he came to power my concern is not just for illegal immigrants but after he gets rid of all 11 million of them, what group will he focus on next. It kind of has the feel of racial cleansing. With all the lack-luster presidential candidates on both sides I think he has a good chance of becoming the next commander in chief - yikes!
7
'Racial cleansing'? Wow, you guys are really desperate. It would be nice if you had some concern for the millions of unemployed and underemployed in the States. Some of them are actually minorities too.
Good point. So many conservatives in their rush to heap hatred on the poor, immigrants, gay people etc. don't realize that the Republican party has gleefully been dismantling the middle class.
All this talk about borders and illegal immigrants denies the fact that the number of illegal immigrants has GONE DOWN by about 1 million in the last 10 years. Illegal immigrants are leaving the country. A bigger wall and drones would make it more difficult for those who choose to, to leave! But the GOP does need an "other" to demonize. Their run at demonizing "liberals" is nearly over as populist movements gain strength. Hate seems to be an important part of GOP identity.
2
Sometimes the Sanest Reaction to an insane situation....is Insanity. We are observing the dissoluto
2
And working citizens would have to be screened and approved to work in their own country? Sounds a lot like the Stasi in 1960's East Germany to me.
4
One of the reasons that migrants are trying to get to the UK through the Chunnel rather than staying in France is that France (and other European countries) have a national id card whereas the UK does not, so it's easier to work illegally in the UK. I hardly think that France's having a national ID card makes them equivalent to 1960's East Germany or the French police the equivalent of the Stasi.
" ... his diminished opponents are following in his wake, like remoras on a shark." Well done!
3
We need another Reagan amnesty instituted.
2
Are immigrants from Sweden, Canada, Germany and Denmark okay?
Could he be specific and about which jobs are being taken away by all those Guatemalans, Mexicans and Salvadorans? Are the unemployment lines full of bitter, formerly employed hopefuls who have been shut out of the work force by illegal aliens? I'm baffled by the vitriol.
Could he be specific and about which jobs are being taken away by all those Guatemalans, Mexicans and Salvadorans? Are the unemployment lines full of bitter, formerly employed hopefuls who have been shut out of the work force by illegal aliens? I'm baffled by the vitriol.
3
What part of illegal don't you understand? It doesn't have to do with anyone's race or nationality, it has to do with the law.
immigrants from Sweden, Canada and Germany would not break the law by entering America illegally. They obey the law.
It would take a police state to accomplish Trumps proposals. Unfortunately, too many Americans are ready for one.
5
The GOP candidates and the party have never really been too far from the "bottom" we are speaking of.
Also, anyone who dares to rise above the muck, risks being driven out of the race and the party.
This is how most GOP lawmakers get elected - with extreme rhetoric on everyday problems, laying blame at and viciously attacking some segment of society and and simple-minded destructive "solutions" - government is the problem, let's drown it, immigrants are the problem, let's punish them, Iran is the problem, let's bomb, bomb, bomb.
Unfortunately, this gunk appeals to a good part of the electorate and their baser instincts.
Also, anyone who dares to rise above the muck, risks being driven out of the race and the party.
This is how most GOP lawmakers get elected - with extreme rhetoric on everyday problems, laying blame at and viciously attacking some segment of society and and simple-minded destructive "solutions" - government is the problem, let's drown it, immigrants are the problem, let's punish them, Iran is the problem, let's bomb, bomb, bomb.
Unfortunately, this gunk appeals to a good part of the electorate and their baser instincts.
2
This despicable and frankly un American bombast is not surprising. In 1968 Nixon was all about "Law and Order". In 2016, it will be protecting our borders from a Mexican menace. Add the tirade against women and marriage equality. Strip affordable health care from everyone. Privatize Social Security. Destroy the
EPA. Eliminate food stamps. Now we're talking ! If this is polling well, just who are they asking ?
EPA. Eliminate food stamps. Now we're talking ! If this is polling well, just who are they asking ?
2
Republicans tout the Constitution but are ready to re-write it - first it was the basic freedoms and now it's birth right! And building a wall - how high - armed guards - will it be another Berlin Wall? These are not the ideas of democracy - these are the repressive ideas based on fear and hate. The proposed massed roundup of millions is reminiscent of the war years. The GOP candidates need a tour of the German concentration camps.
4
The Trump attention getting free form rant-a-thon is truly sucking the air out. A review of the comments and not one mention of Kasich ,Cruz, or Perry all of whom have different prescriptions to the issue. What is missed is the mutation the legacy of the Goldwater/Reagan movement.
From coherent conservatism the "movement" is screeching to regionalized grievance politics, the original sin of the left. MY COMPLAINT politics and fear mongering used to belong to the McGovenites i.e. Nixon as the Anti Christ . The Trump mono syllabic screed replaces Buckley with bumper sticker light. Worse , the lemmings chase , change the Constitution, ignore the Supreme Court, arm yourselves and light the torches! Just wait till Tail Gunner Cruz gets to play with the budget and shutdown.
Cruz is the leader with the brains to coalesce the sputtering rage into a new movement , cue the searchlights , shirts will be brown this political season.
From coherent conservatism the "movement" is screeching to regionalized grievance politics, the original sin of the left. MY COMPLAINT politics and fear mongering used to belong to the McGovenites i.e. Nixon as the Anti Christ . The Trump mono syllabic screed replaces Buckley with bumper sticker light. Worse , the lemmings chase , change the Constitution, ignore the Supreme Court, arm yourselves and light the torches! Just wait till Tail Gunner Cruz gets to play with the budget and shutdown.
Cruz is the leader with the brains to coalesce the sputtering rage into a new movement , cue the searchlights , shirts will be brown this political season.
2
Trump is a narcissist. If you start from there and understand, he is so in love with himself it makes sense in the world Trump. The man does not reflective on this thought, has self-doubt, question, or weight the impact of the words, which spew, from his combustible mouth like projectile vomit. The topic almost does not matter, a path to citizenship, a wall; it is Trump the lover of all ideas Trump. That the other candidates are bottom feeding only illustrates how morally bankrupt the Republican Party and how far from the National “Unity” Party of Lincoln they have strayed. Clinton, flaws and all will only benefit and save some unforeseen event, the Democrats will keep the White House. Reminds me of the Scorpion and the Frog; The scorpion shrugged, and did a little jig on the drowning’s frog's back. "I could not help myself. It is my nature."
1
Liberals claim Republicans are using fear. Yet it is liberals who allow illegal alien criminals to roam free in sanctuary cities all accross the country. Liberals do not even want common sense immigration laws, like Kate's Law, to reign in this lawlessness they encourage.
13
What has happened to the Republican Party? What has happened to conservatism? Why has the raise of ignorant, red-neck ism been allowed to ruin the reasonable party of Reagon and Lincoln and turned into the party of 'no'?
3
When would Trump tear down that misbegotten Statue of Liberty?
2
When the casino industry recovers. It's a great location.
What's the PROBLEM???
Americans are known around the world....
for taking the LOW ROAD.
Americans are known around the world....
for taking the LOW ROAD.
2
Just to note that citizenship by place of birth as opposed to the parents citizenship is the law in only about 30 countries of about 200 countries worldwide, mostly in the Americas, none now in Europe. The trend has been away from it.
6
There is a reason we do it by place of birth. After the Civil War, there was a question of the right to citizenship for the newly freed slaves. The Supreme Court, in the Dred Scott decision, stated that the slaves were not citizens. The 14th Amendment was passed to settle their right to citizenship once and for all.
which is why the US is so exceptional and wonderful!
Or are you one of those folks who think we should just follow the rest of the world?
Or are you one of those folks who think we should just follow the rest of the world?
"He would flood the country with immigration agents." Hoo boy.
The 3:00 AM pound on the door comes to America? Mr. and Mrs. (nee Callahan or Schwartz) Hernandez and their children are rousted by the immigration agents with demands to see their papers.
Meantime, video is broadcast worldwide of thousands of crying, scared and angry deportees wait at the border in the dust and heat to be pushed onto buses headed south of the border. Folks around the world can see just how tough and resolute America and her President are in solving the problem.
And the actual dollar costs of the manhunts, transport and wall, not to mention the (unintended) costs to the overall economy? Well...
The 3:00 AM pound on the door comes to America? Mr. and Mrs. (nee Callahan or Schwartz) Hernandez and their children are rousted by the immigration agents with demands to see their papers.
Meantime, video is broadcast worldwide of thousands of crying, scared and angry deportees wait at the border in the dust and heat to be pushed onto buses headed south of the border. Folks around the world can see just how tough and resolute America and her President are in solving the problem.
And the actual dollar costs of the manhunts, transport and wall, not to mention the (unintended) costs to the overall economy? Well...
1
"...Or you could say he has given them a gift: the opportunity to be specific in return about what they would do to fix the immigration mess..."
Well, they've made it clear they're just like him although less forthright. For that we can thank Mr Trump. Now if he could disclose his specific plans on all other issues, we might get to understand where all the others stand, and that too would be helpful, immensely.
Well, they've made it clear they're just like him although less forthright. For that we can thank Mr Trump. Now if he could disclose his specific plans on all other issues, we might get to understand where all the others stand, and that too would be helpful, immensely.
Even the pundits have bought into Trump. It is sickening to listen to them repeatedly say "He is just saying what everyone is afraid to say." If that is true, America is truly sick. Media, wake up, quit perpetuating everything Trump.
1
Trump's GOP rivals are scared to death by him, and are stumbling all over themselves, trying to avoid his poison tongue. They are all afraid he will air all their dirty laundry. Trump has really nothing to lose, and the rest of the GOP have only the Presidency to lose, having already lost their wits and self respect to Trump.
1
Anyone, having read or commenting on this editorial, think Trump or his advisers will have read this Editorial expose? And given if he does/they do, will we all be placed into his reviled media box? You know, the one he claims to ignore because we all hate him and his hair.
Are his fellow Republican candidates' muted responses to his immigration positions waiting to get past the Iowa and New Hampshire primaries before becoming more serious in their challenges once events move to South Carolina with its large Black and Hispanic population?
How many of us run into Trump supporters and where are any of them, including Trump, getting their information, on issues like immigration, building huge walls, the Iran Deal, the economy?
Is America really so ignorant and hateful that a guy like Trump can be actually be elected in 2016; should the rest of us, who object, simply move to Canada, how do we oppose such ignorance and silliness?
Are his fellow Republican candidates' muted responses to his immigration positions waiting to get past the Iowa and New Hampshire primaries before becoming more serious in their challenges once events move to South Carolina with its large Black and Hispanic population?
How many of us run into Trump supporters and where are any of them, including Trump, getting their information, on issues like immigration, building huge walls, the Iran Deal, the economy?
Is America really so ignorant and hateful that a guy like Trump can be actually be elected in 2016; should the rest of us, who object, simply move to Canada, how do we oppose such ignorance and silliness?
Good luck, folks, emigrating to Canada (never mind that it is 99% hot air to claim you will do so).
Canada has very strict laws about immigration, and does not take "just anyone".
Canada has very strict laws about immigration, and does not take "just anyone".
What I find naive is the attitude that what Trumps is saying is outrageous. What Trump is saying publicly is exactly the things that Republican candidates say behind closed doors (like Romney and his 47%). I am glad that Trump is revealing the Republicans' real policy ot immigration, Planned Parenthood, etc. It is time that the American public sees them for who and what they are so they can decide who they want their leaders to be and what they want this country to become.
1
There is very little coverage of John Kasich by the Times editorial board or by their regular political columnists compared to that "lavished" upon Trump, Rubio, Walker, and Bush. I think these liberal Democrats are deathly afraid that Kasich, a true moderate republican (fiscally conservative and socially liberal) will threaten Hilary Clinton, the candidate they have already committed to.
3
Kasich isn't all that socially liberal, but he does have the advantage of not being nuts, not being a blowhard and a coward, and of being a sensible politician who doesn't spend a lot of time running around looking for trouble.
It's worth reading Ezra Klein's interview with Bernie Sanders from a few weeks ago. Sanders' comments on immigration are almost the same as Trump's.
http://www.vox.com/2015/7/28/9014491/bernie-sanders-vox-conversation
http://www.vox.com/2015/7/28/9014491/bernie-sanders-vox-conversation
6
What Sanders actually said was that "open borders," is a right-wing notion, advanced to keep this country's workers down, and that we needed both to have strong borders and to work to help Mexico and other poor countries.
Did you actually read the interview?
Did you actually read the interview?
Careful, you're upsetting the narrative.
I don't know if Trump is at heart a demagogue or he is just playing one on TV. But here he is, spewing nasty racist rhetoric that attracts a rabid following of frustrated, downward mobile bigots and manages to come out #1 in Republican Party polls
Trump is an over-the-top comic-book personality, the quintessential phony capitalist, and a mischievous spoiled bad boy who commands everyone's attention--disclosing for the world to see some of the worst aspects of the Republican Party and this fractured bi-polar country
Trump is shrewd. He knows where the hot buttons are, how to push them, demand media attention, and how to trounce his competitors by any means necessary
All the Republican candidates are about the same message: taking back "our" country to make it more white, male, & Christian
Some GOP candidates do it more subtly, wink-wink style, like Jeb! and Rubio; some are more brazen like Cruz and Perry. Trump does it on steroids--unleashing his id with over-the-top malicious rhetoric
Sadly, more than half the Republicans love it (57% favorable rating for Trump by Republicans in the polls). Nothing subtle about that--so there! you prissy, stuck-up people demanding "politically correctness" (better known as civility)
BUT, Trump's unfavorable ratings among the public are high at 57% and only 31% favorable; his unfavorable ratings among women hover around 60-70%
It will take leadership in the GOP to displace Trump, & evidently there isn't any--as Trump shows us
Trump is an over-the-top comic-book personality, the quintessential phony capitalist, and a mischievous spoiled bad boy who commands everyone's attention--disclosing for the world to see some of the worst aspects of the Republican Party and this fractured bi-polar country
Trump is shrewd. He knows where the hot buttons are, how to push them, demand media attention, and how to trounce his competitors by any means necessary
All the Republican candidates are about the same message: taking back "our" country to make it more white, male, & Christian
Some GOP candidates do it more subtly, wink-wink style, like Jeb! and Rubio; some are more brazen like Cruz and Perry. Trump does it on steroids--unleashing his id with over-the-top malicious rhetoric
Sadly, more than half the Republicans love it (57% favorable rating for Trump by Republicans in the polls). Nothing subtle about that--so there! you prissy, stuck-up people demanding "politically correctness" (better known as civility)
BUT, Trump's unfavorable ratings among the public are high at 57% and only 31% favorable; his unfavorable ratings among women hover around 60-70%
It will take leadership in the GOP to displace Trump, & evidently there isn't any--as Trump shows us
3
Immigrants don’t come here illegally for nothing. For once, I’d like to hear about the companies and businesses who benefit from illegal immigrant labor. Why and how do they hire? If workers are supposed to have documentation, how do they get work if they don’t? Why are businesses not called to account for their role in this issue?
7
Here in Houston, it's easy to observe how illegals find work. A new illegal arrival comes to family or friends' for lodging and those relationships lead immediately to work. New arrivals can't come to lie around watching TV! And, the going pay rate? In landscaping, even the newest member of the crew doing weed-wacking gets $100/day. More typically, $125/day is the expectation. The illegals waiting every day outside Home Depot are not there for the fellowship and sunshine; they consistently find work as daily hires. Women illegals? Cleaning uppper middle class suburban homes pays $125 to $150. It's easy to find a portfolio of such homes and to do 2 a day 4 or 5 days a week. Spanish is widely spoken among the folks cooking in fast food franchises...'flipping burgers' is scorned by domestic born citizens so, to meet our requirement for lots of meals outside the home, franchise owners hold their noses and hire who's available and reliable to show up. So, who do illegals work for? From what I can see around here, it's not 'greedy corporations.' If you have an HR department with professionals in it, you're not ikely to hire illegals around here. Rather, it's local households' (many good conservative Republicans among them) demand for landscaping, house cleaning and restaurant meals that creates easily available work opportunities for illegals. There is no competition for them from domestic born folks. Cracking down on these "employers" is key to solving illegal immigration.
1
We need E-verify for employment purposes. When you hire someone you cannot ask any questions about national origin, etc. Not only is it illegal, you would probably get sued too! They get papers illegally, often by stealing someone else's identity or paying for forgeries. It needs to stop.
I do not know who is more dangerous Donald Trump or his supporters. Last night I turned on to not FOX but MSNBC..they had Trump`s Town Hall meeting broadcasting live with a big crowd filling every seat and more standing at the entrance cheering all the way while Jeb Bush had a much smaller subdued audience.
It has come to the point Trump is not funny anymore, he is more dangerous and unless the rest of the candidates develop a backbone Donald Trump is on his way to be the Republican nominee.
The Country have every reason to be worried !
It has come to the point Trump is not funny anymore, he is more dangerous and unless the rest of the candidates develop a backbone Donald Trump is on his way to be the Republican nominee.
The Country have every reason to be worried !
3
Build walls, deport millions, federal job-verification system . . . .
Republicans that are so against government when it intrudes on certain "rights" are the first ones to call on government to curtail other "rights" . . . Immigration policy is just one example, but there are many others . . . guns, abortion, healthcare, education, etc., etc. . . . .
It seems to be all relative to the anti-relativists . . .
Republicans that are so against government when it intrudes on certain "rights" are the first ones to call on government to curtail other "rights" . . . Immigration policy is just one example, but there are many others . . . guns, abortion, healthcare, education, etc., etc. . . . .
It seems to be all relative to the anti-relativists . . .
2
Problem with republicans is the people who vote in their primaries are not a true sample of people likely to vote for them in general elections. This right wing crazies think they are in majority but in fact they are not and history is proof. But since they influence their primaries way more than their true share, candidates try to show reddest necks..And then it is very difficult for them to come back to middle on each and every issue!!
1
Just substitute "Jews" For "Mexicans" every time Trump opens his mouth and whom are you reminded of?
Understand his strategy now?
Understand his strategy now?
7
When Walker first campaigned, I watched him whip people into a frenzy of hatred at teachers. Romney and Ryan picked on poor people, pretty much every Republican has denigrated gay people. Republicans will always find a scapegoat.
I took one thing away from that horrendous train wreck of a town hall meeting, and that is that Trump sure knows how to play a crowd. That was scary. The cult of personality.
3
Whether he's shooting from the hip, or another part of his lower anatomy Trump seems to command everyone's constant attention in the much the same way as hyperactive children spoiled by their sadly clueless parents invariably do.
3
"Oh, ye'll take the low road and I'll take the lower,
And I'll be in Cleveland afore ya."
(But Trump and his platform
Will never see D.C.,
With Repubs 'low' on ersatz euphoria.)
And I'll be in Cleveland afore ya."
(But Trump and his platform
Will never see D.C.,
With Repubs 'low' on ersatz euphoria.)
3
Trump's immigration proposals are not "despicable;" they are too idiotic to be despicable. Trump is an entertainer, playing in the fields of politics. We take his offerings too seriously when we call them despicable.
If you let a car salesman apply for a NASA engineering position, don't complain when he argues that a rocket should be available in a convertible.
If you let a car salesman apply for a NASA engineering position, don't complain when he argues that a rocket should be available in a convertible.
102
You made me laugh! Thanks.
It's the Republican voter base ("We don't need no stinking IQ!") cheering Trump on to ever greater feats of uncivil behavior who are the despicable ones.
These are comments from “moderate” NY Times readers? Or have I ventured onto theblaze.com again?
Ancestry.com seems to be every other commercial these days...yet EVERY commercial shows ancestors were at Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address(?) or other diorama showing Old Glory flying over the festivities. I see that the DAR is making a comeback.
I kept my maiden name as it shows that I am a daughter of a first generation Czech-German. I have to spell it every time but I refused to change it to a less-immigrant sounding name that my husbands had. What happened to absolute pride in where we came from? Of what e pluribus unum means--out of many one is formed?
At what point have we become the Weimar Republic where the only accepted citizenship is one where your bloodlines went back at least a century smack dab in the middle of the USA?
Jon Stewart had a joke in his stand-up routine how his Russian Jewish immigrant grandfather came to our shores, and within 10 minutes stood on the shore, looked back towards Europe, shook his fist and said “No more immigrants!!” Yet now every citizen whether first generation or 20th now does the same...and it’s not part of a joke.
Our post Civil War legislature passed the 14th amendment so that every child born of African-Americans, Chinese, Irish, Japanese, European, or other Asians were citizens by birthright.
I am distraught over this xenophobia. The fear started in 2001 spread by Fox, Cheney, etc is rampant; we are reaping that sowed.
Ancestry.com seems to be every other commercial these days...yet EVERY commercial shows ancestors were at Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address(?) or other diorama showing Old Glory flying over the festivities. I see that the DAR is making a comeback.
I kept my maiden name as it shows that I am a daughter of a first generation Czech-German. I have to spell it every time but I refused to change it to a less-immigrant sounding name that my husbands had. What happened to absolute pride in where we came from? Of what e pluribus unum means--out of many one is formed?
At what point have we become the Weimar Republic where the only accepted citizenship is one where your bloodlines went back at least a century smack dab in the middle of the USA?
Jon Stewart had a joke in his stand-up routine how his Russian Jewish immigrant grandfather came to our shores, and within 10 minutes stood on the shore, looked back towards Europe, shook his fist and said “No more immigrants!!” Yet now every citizen whether first generation or 20th now does the same...and it’s not part of a joke.
Our post Civil War legislature passed the 14th amendment so that every child born of African-Americans, Chinese, Irish, Japanese, European, or other Asians were citizens by birthright.
I am distraught over this xenophobia. The fear started in 2001 spread by Fox, Cheney, etc is rampant; we are reaping that sowed.
3
It's not legal immigration, it's illegal immigration. We have laws, stand in line like everybody else, or go back and try again. Why should someone who breaks the law get to stay when millions of others are doing the right thing and waiting and filling out paperwork and paying to come here. What are the purposes of laws then, if you don't need to follow them, or only follow the ones you want?
I find it interesting that the Times editorial staff can't bring themselves to say anything positive about the one viable GOP candidate who is standing up for immigrants, John Kasich. Could it be that they fear that he might actually be a threat to Hillary's coronation?
3
In no place in this Editorial did I see the word "illegal."
If you can't get the facts straight, and now you've even dropped the pretense of using the prior dishonest wording of "undocumented" and "unauthorized" perhaps you shouldn't write anything at all.
This is the WORST example of how biased this paper is, and how poorly you are able to make a simple argument for their case, by conflating illegal immigration with legal immigration. Are you that desperate?
If you can't get the facts straight, and now you've even dropped the pretense of using the prior dishonest wording of "undocumented" and "unauthorized" perhaps you shouldn't write anything at all.
This is the WORST example of how biased this paper is, and how poorly you are able to make a simple argument for their case, by conflating illegal immigration with legal immigration. Are you that desperate?
7
Donald Trump is only saying what the Republican base is thinking about immigration. His opponents have never had the courage to do that. They're not going to find it now. They'll continue to flounder because to try to take the moral high ground on the issue, would cost them their base. And the implosion of Trump won't be because of immigration,
.
That said, I do wish the Democrats would acknowledge that their "path to citizenship" has to be a two way street: it shouldn't just allow undocumented immigrants to sign a paper and *poof* become legal. There should be hefty fines to send a clear message that it's cheaper and easier to come here legally in the first place. There should be incentives for good behavior, too - like the banning of in-state tuition and mortgage assistance for undocumented immigrants (if they want it, they can start on the path to citizenship).
.
Most of all, I wish the Democrats would take ownership of crime and punishment, and in particular, Sanctuary Cities. The idea of it is sound, but this is a broken policy. It doesn't make immigrants feel safe reporting crimes. It can backfire into murders that never should have happened - as we saw in San
Fransisco. It really needs to be rethought, in clear terms, and a campaign platform is a good place to do that.
.
I'm not a political expert, but I bet if someone (Hillary) did these things, she could lure away a lot of middle-right and conservative Latinos in the general election.
.
That said, I do wish the Democrats would acknowledge that their "path to citizenship" has to be a two way street: it shouldn't just allow undocumented immigrants to sign a paper and *poof* become legal. There should be hefty fines to send a clear message that it's cheaper and easier to come here legally in the first place. There should be incentives for good behavior, too - like the banning of in-state tuition and mortgage assistance for undocumented immigrants (if they want it, they can start on the path to citizenship).
.
Most of all, I wish the Democrats would take ownership of crime and punishment, and in particular, Sanctuary Cities. The idea of it is sound, but this is a broken policy. It doesn't make immigrants feel safe reporting crimes. It can backfire into murders that never should have happened - as we saw in San
Fransisco. It really needs to be rethought, in clear terms, and a campaign platform is a good place to do that.
.
I'm not a political expert, but I bet if someone (Hillary) did these things, she could lure away a lot of middle-right and conservative Latinos in the general election.
3
If you want to see how awful sanctuary cities can be, go visit Austin TeXas. My daughter lived there while she went to UT. The crime was awful and the cops wouldn't do anything. It got so bad that she and her friends couldn't even leave campus and then there were armed robberies there. Lots of professional homeless people, mostly men. She was attacked once with a group of girls, but she had pepper spray and they ran away. Once she was being followed and she got on a bus and they called the cops. The cops did nothing, but told her to call 911 right away neXt time. She is a big fan of concealed carry laws now.
Exactly my point. I've talked to police officers and elected officials here in Houston about it. Sanctuary City policies are -supposed to- make immigrant communities safer by encouraging illegals to report crime the way you and I do. But they fail, miserably, to do so. They fail so miserably that people are quick to claim Houston's not a sanctuary city when it actually is,
.
I lived in Southwest Houston for eight years. My house was burglarized twice. I witnessed a home invasion. I saw a Latino gang beat down a new member. At the same time, kids (mostly Latino, many with parents or grandparents who were recent immigrants) rode bikes in the neighborhood. They were immediately in danger. Why, I wondered, don't their parents report these crimes and work to make the neighborhood safer? The answer seems simple: they don't trust the police. Something has to be done on this. Sanctuary Cities should have been that - and I hold out hope that with enough reform maybe it could be.
.
(Not if Trump or any of the other Republicans get in office, though)
.
I lived in Southwest Houston for eight years. My house was burglarized twice. I witnessed a home invasion. I saw a Latino gang beat down a new member. At the same time, kids (mostly Latino, many with parents or grandparents who were recent immigrants) rode bikes in the neighborhood. They were immediately in danger. Why, I wondered, don't their parents report these crimes and work to make the neighborhood safer? The answer seems simple: they don't trust the police. Something has to be done on this. Sanctuary Cities should have been that - and I hold out hope that with enough reform maybe it could be.
.
(Not if Trump or any of the other Republicans get in office, though)
1
What I thought was just another Trump pro forma publicity stunt using the GOP primary race as a stage -- he always does this, right? -- with the end goal of getting a new talk-show contract, has morphed into a serious bid for the nomination. How did we get here, talking seriously about Donald Trump as the president of the United States? He's a failed businessman whose last refuge is being a talk-show personality. It's the 2008 financial meltdown that has laid us low: that slow-motion train wreck that the Republican administration, the SEC, the CFTC, watched in a state of dazed fecklessness. Race ("immigration") is always an easy sell when people are desperate. And there are a lot of desperate people these days in the land of the free and the brave.
2
This phrase caught my attention:
"normalized an extremism whose toxicity is dulled by familiarity."
An excellent dscription of the damage the Republican party has done to our country. Add to that their 'race to the bottom' in following Trump's lead and I truly despair for our country.
Christina Robison
"normalized an extremism whose toxicity is dulled by familiarity."
An excellent dscription of the damage the Republican party has done to our country. Add to that their 'race to the bottom' in following Trump's lead and I truly despair for our country.
Christina Robison
3
No nytimes, most people do not want a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants. What most people want is illegals out, and educated, valuable legal immigrants to be able to move here and contribute without massive amounts of red tape. But yea, keep telling yourself "most" Americans want millions of unskilled, undereducated, impoverished illegal immigrants moving here.
9
The illegal immigrants stream in, Chris, from Mexico and from Guatemala (where the Republican wall will have a problem stemming the tide) because they want jobs. They find jobs because many Americans do want them here – owners of small businesses, farmers, food processing plants, janitorial services, landscaping companies, well-to-do people who want reliable domestic services, et al.
Chris, you may, quite literally, turn up your nose at the jobs and at the people, but other Americans do not necessarily share your delicate feelings. Having these immigrants is a win-win situation for America and for them.
They clearly do not take the jobs for which highly educated foreigners with special skills are needed – people with whom you feel comfortable, Chris – and that type of immigration should be expanded, as long as it is not abused by using it mainly to replace higher paid, but equally qualified native-born Americans.
You know, Chris, abuses like IBM and Disney and others have committed.
Chris, you may, quite literally, turn up your nose at the jobs and at the people, but other Americans do not necessarily share your delicate feelings. Having these immigrants is a win-win situation for America and for them.
They clearly do not take the jobs for which highly educated foreigners with special skills are needed – people with whom you feel comfortable, Chris – and that type of immigration should be expanded, as long as it is not abused by using it mainly to replace higher paid, but equally qualified native-born Americans.
You know, Chris, abuses like IBM and Disney and others have committed.
Speak for yourself. It's not realistic to try to deport 11 million people all at once. And I don't mind if illegals stay here. Illegal immigration is a crime best punished by fines anyway. To rip a family apart because they don't have paper is cruel and unusual, and expensive. To make them pay, and then give them legal status, would fit the crime, and turn a net loss into a net gain for the taxpayer.
.
I'm also for an end to the unfunded mandates regarding illegals. There has to be a source of funding, separate from local school taxes, for bilingual education and immigrant services. A tax on money grams out of the country, perhaps? Maybe something else targeted at illegals, to make them pay for the services they get here? I don't know, but we need something.
.
I'm also for an end to the unfunded mandates regarding illegals. There has to be a source of funding, separate from local school taxes, for bilingual education and immigrant services. A tax on money grams out of the country, perhaps? Maybe something else targeted at illegals, to make them pay for the services they get here? I don't know, but we need something.
That's fine. Go ahead and tell us how to accomplish this, break down the cost and figure out how to pay for it.
Immigrants were trouble ever since we came here.
6
Trump, Trump, Trump. Yawn. Many seemingly "serious" political commentators suggest that Trump is tapping into some deep vein of the American Zeitgeist, thus accounting for his popularity, which is undiminished even in the face of this horrifying immigration nonsense.
So what about that “tapping into the Zeitgeist” thing? Trump’s popularity is not because he projects a voice of independence, speaking truth to power, representing the honesty citizens long for in politics. Trump is not representing disenfranchised, unemployed, under-employed or disregarded Americans. Nothing in his life or brash pronouncements indicates that he cares one bit about them, except to the extent that they can be further impoverished and exploited by his amoral casino empire.
Trump’s success reveals the only thing he’s “tapping into:” Americans who admire celebrity, gaudy excess, arrogance, swagger and aggression. That’s sad, not fascinating.
So what about that “tapping into the Zeitgeist” thing? Trump’s popularity is not because he projects a voice of independence, speaking truth to power, representing the honesty citizens long for in politics. Trump is not representing disenfranchised, unemployed, under-employed or disregarded Americans. Nothing in his life or brash pronouncements indicates that he cares one bit about them, except to the extent that they can be further impoverished and exploited by his amoral casino empire.
Trump’s success reveals the only thing he’s “tapping into:” Americans who admire celebrity, gaudy excess, arrogance, swagger and aggression. That’s sad, not fascinating.
3
Trump's proposed changes to birthright citizenship are also a distraction from the lack of a plan to deport 11 million immigrants. I saw an exerpt of Bill O'Reilly (no less!) asking The Donald about the feasibility of expelling all the illegals, and Trump responded by changing the subject to birthright and saying that he knew some lawyers who agreed that the Constitution does not ensure American nationality for those born here. Empty, cheap rhetoric.
3
Yes, most Americans support immigration as it was envisioned by the nation's Founders. Most Americans, even many liberals, do not support illegal immigration or amnesty or the various "paths to citizenship" being touted by those looking for votes. Trump has picked up on this and it is winning him supporters. When is the Times going to realize that leaning liberal does not need to mean leaning toward illegal immigration? Trump didn't create "the bottom" and he's not dragging anyone there. He is just the most colorful illustration of just how low we've gone in this country. Hilary is a blander example of how low public figures have sunk.
6
Unfortunately most Americans aren't willing to do the jobs these people do and most Americans want cheap food. Make up your mind, what do you want most?
"But as Mr. Trump swells in the polls, his diminished opponents are following in his wake , like remoras on a shark."
How about "like fleas on a rat"? It seems more appropriate, as they continue to "plague" us.
How about "like fleas on a rat"? It seems more appropriate, as they continue to "plague" us.
3
Here's the opening of Trump's immigration paper. I'd like to hear your precise objections to these principles:
"When politicians talk about “immigration reform” they mean: amnesty, cheap labor and open borders. The Schumer-Rubio immigration bill was nothing more than a giveaway to the corporate patrons who run both parties.
"Real immigration reform puts the needs of working people first – not wealthy globetrotting donors. We are the only country in the world whose immigration system puts the needs of other nations ahead of our own. That must change. Here are the three core principles of real immigration reform:
"1. A nation without borders is not a nation. There must be a wall across the southern border.
"2. A nation without laws is not a nation. Laws passed in accordance with our Constitutional system of government must be enforced.
"3. A nation that does not serve its own citizens is not a nation. Any immigration plan must improve jobs, wages and security for all Americans."
"When politicians talk about “immigration reform” they mean: amnesty, cheap labor and open borders. The Schumer-Rubio immigration bill was nothing more than a giveaway to the corporate patrons who run both parties.
"Real immigration reform puts the needs of working people first – not wealthy globetrotting donors. We are the only country in the world whose immigration system puts the needs of other nations ahead of our own. That must change. Here are the three core principles of real immigration reform:
"1. A nation without borders is not a nation. There must be a wall across the southern border.
"2. A nation without laws is not a nation. Laws passed in accordance with our Constitutional system of government must be enforced.
"3. A nation that does not serve its own citizens is not a nation. Any immigration plan must improve jobs, wages and security for all Americans."
10
Thank you, New York Times, for describing the grotesque nature of actual GOP policy represented by that demagogic and cretinous egomaniac, Trump. NBC Nightly News could learn a thing or two from this editorial, as in perhaps how to actually inform its viewers about what is truly important.
But no. Instead, NBC would rather lead the news, as it did last night, with yet another hyperventilating report about the non-issue of Hillary Clinton's emails, and have tools like Chuck Todd and/or Andrea Mitchell comment - with straight faces - that the ongoing media attention Hillary Clinton is receiving about her emails is a growing problem for her because of all of the ongoing media attention. "My gosh", they'll likely continue to report, "it's a story that just won't go away!"
And in the next breath, talk about how Trump is "closing the gap" with Clinton in the polls as a result, while giving Trump airtime to brainlessly and baselessly bleat that the email molehill is "worse than Watergate".
Self-fulfilling horse-race journalism at its worst.
But no. Instead, NBC would rather lead the news, as it did last night, with yet another hyperventilating report about the non-issue of Hillary Clinton's emails, and have tools like Chuck Todd and/or Andrea Mitchell comment - with straight faces - that the ongoing media attention Hillary Clinton is receiving about her emails is a growing problem for her because of all of the ongoing media attention. "My gosh", they'll likely continue to report, "it's a story that just won't go away!"
And in the next breath, talk about how Trump is "closing the gap" with Clinton in the polls as a result, while giving Trump airtime to brainlessly and baselessly bleat that the email molehill is "worse than Watergate".
Self-fulfilling horse-race journalism at its worst.
4
Any woman, minority or GLBT person foolish enough to vote Republican should have his/her head examined. The GOP's willingness to incite hate to generate votes is despicable, particularly when done simply to make sure the rich get richer.
5
P. T. Trump is nothing but a 3rd rate carnival barker or snake oil salesman selling worthless nostrums to an audience of rabid loons with pitchforks and torchlights!
They have breached the gates but lets hope the only thing they destroy is the Republican party and not the entire USA!
They have breached the gates but lets hope the only thing they destroy is the Republican party and not the entire USA!
3
No mention of John Kasich. The Democrats' worst nightmare. The GOP's only serious candidate.
1
Kasich, the guy who wants to abolish lounges for teachers? If that's the Republicans serious candidate, they really are in trouble.
mpc - look more into Kasich's background and positions. Kasich is as wing-nutty as the rest of the clown bus.
Everything the editorial says about Trump and the other candidates is correct. But, the editorial board blames Trump and his spineless opponents for the Republican nomination for this campaign of despicable proposals on immigration. Well, Trump wouldn't be leading the pack now if his demagoguery on immigration didn't appeal to millions of Republicans. The truth is that the Republican Party has long since become a party of despicable ideas. Candidates for the Party's nomination cannot lead it away from such ideas, or survive, without pandering to the worst of the Party's base, even if they wished to do so. It's increasingly difficult to believe that any want to, based on the behavior we have seen thus far.
5
So, we have heard what Donald J. Trump has to say on the subject of illegal immigration, we have heard his outline, now what would you like to propose? What is your plan?
It's very easy to hit out at the plans of others. No matter how bad you think the plans of others are, if you have no plans or proposals yourself, then you are worse than those you would seek to vilify.
Trump has opened the conversation, so continue...
I like the idea of a wall on our southern border with Mexico, and I would be happy to add another wall on our northern border with Canada.
I like the idea of strict enforcement of E-Verify.
I don't like the idea of changing or reinterpreting the 14th Amendment to deny citizenship to those born here.
I have no objection to 'getting our house in order', building the wall(s), enforcing E-Verify, implementing new policy and procedures to combat those who overstay visas, and other appropriate actions--- and then granting a general amnesty.
Illegal immigration is either an issue we either need to deal with or it is not. All candidates should be asked if they think illegal immigration needs dealt with, if they say yes, we must insist that they share their plan - and if they say no, they should probably start looking for a new job.
It's very easy to hit out at the plans of others. No matter how bad you think the plans of others are, if you have no plans or proposals yourself, then you are worse than those you would seek to vilify.
Trump has opened the conversation, so continue...
I like the idea of a wall on our southern border with Mexico, and I would be happy to add another wall on our northern border with Canada.
I like the idea of strict enforcement of E-Verify.
I don't like the idea of changing or reinterpreting the 14th Amendment to deny citizenship to those born here.
I have no objection to 'getting our house in order', building the wall(s), enforcing E-Verify, implementing new policy and procedures to combat those who overstay visas, and other appropriate actions--- and then granting a general amnesty.
Illegal immigration is either an issue we either need to deal with or it is not. All candidates should be asked if they think illegal immigration needs dealt with, if they say yes, we must insist that they share their plan - and if they say no, they should probably start looking for a new job.
2
Yes, the illegal immigration issue needs serious attention. But Donald Trump is not opening a dialog. He has made it clear that his position, such as it is, is not the opening salvo but rather is cast in stone. This is not the discussion you suggest is now underway. It is the policy that, as president, he would seek to impose from day one.
We can call chuckle and say that there's no way Trump will be the candidate - after all, a lot can happen between now and the convention - and we are all better off fearing Kasich rather than Trump. But regardless who is the nominee, these are the policies that will form the party platform.
We can call chuckle and say that there's no way Trump will be the candidate - after all, a lot can happen between now and the convention - and we are all better off fearing Kasich rather than Trump. But regardless who is the nominee, these are the policies that will form the party platform.
Bush is using Trump to take care of his opponents. They will beat each other over the head with this issue and eventually get nowhere.
It's the best thing in the world for Bush, because he can save all that money he raised while Trump gets rid of everyone else. This is much easier than actually having to do it himself.
Eventually it will be Bush, Trump, and the 2 or 3 people on Bush's short list for VP ( the ones getting glowing reviews for their debate performances: Rubio, Fiorina, and Kasich ).
Once the field has narrowed to this group, you'll see Bush rise out of nowhere to top the polls. It will take a week or two. He'll be on top and Trump will just be another historical election footnote like Herman Cain or Gary Hart.
Bush support is what keeps networks from dismissing Trump completely. His speech last night ( I thought he didn't use notes when he gave speeches ) got prime time coverage.
Sanders leads Trump in the polls, and gets more people at his events, but somehow Trump gets the TV spots. Who's behind that decision ?
It's the best thing in the world for Bush, because he can save all that money he raised while Trump gets rid of everyone else. This is much easier than actually having to do it himself.
Eventually it will be Bush, Trump, and the 2 or 3 people on Bush's short list for VP ( the ones getting glowing reviews for their debate performances: Rubio, Fiorina, and Kasich ).
Once the field has narrowed to this group, you'll see Bush rise out of nowhere to top the polls. It will take a week or two. He'll be on top and Trump will just be another historical election footnote like Herman Cain or Gary Hart.
Bush support is what keeps networks from dismissing Trump completely. His speech last night ( I thought he didn't use notes when he gave speeches ) got prime time coverage.
Sanders leads Trump in the polls, and gets more people at his events, but somehow Trump gets the TV spots. Who's behind that decision ?
2
Apparently most of the country disagrees with the NYT on this.
3
So now people who sneaked into our country, violating American immigration law along the way are Americans in waiting? The Times evolution is now complete. From illegals, to illegal aliens, to undocumented, to Americans in waiting. One can only imagine what your next term will be for these people who broke American law and are here illegally.
8
Regarding conservative, Republican visions of immigration and citizenship, it might be worthwhile to repeat Emma Lazarus’ poem, “The New Colossus” (1883), which is engraved at the base of the Statue of Liberty here in New York harbor:
“Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"”
“Pedigree” citizenships, mass deportations, government-issued work permits, iron curtains and drone attacks at the border are perhaps the “storied pomp” of the The Donald and his cohorts, “brazen giants” in their own right.
Perhaps they are also the desires of people, who have forgotten their own immigrant origins, and who are oblivious to the Nativist distain their own ancestors experienced.
In comparison, anyway, the 19th Century poem engraved at the base of the Statue of Liberty sounds a little on the “liberal” side to me.
“Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"”
“Pedigree” citizenships, mass deportations, government-issued work permits, iron curtains and drone attacks at the border are perhaps the “storied pomp” of the The Donald and his cohorts, “brazen giants” in their own right.
Perhaps they are also the desires of people, who have forgotten their own immigrant origins, and who are oblivious to the Nativist distain their own ancestors experienced.
In comparison, anyway, the 19th Century poem engraved at the base of the Statue of Liberty sounds a little on the “liberal” side to me.
In 1886, when the Statue of Liberty was dedicated, the United States accepted about 300,000 legal immigrants. Today, it accepts about one million legal immigrants each year.
Seems this has just uncovered many deep held feelings of the republicans. Any one of the other candidates could have chosen to stand up for what they really believed both on this issue & any other.
It is hard for me to understand how the general public can be so fooled unless they really agree with Trump & the GOP party.
I still have some hope that they will see how this party has lead them down a hate path.
It is hard for me to understand how the general public can be so fooled unless they really agree with Trump & the GOP party.
I still have some hope that they will see how this party has lead them down a hate path.
2
He who sews the wind reaps the whirlwind.
2
And a stitch in time saves nine, too.
The liberal NY Times doesn't get it. The era of "Give us your poor...." is over. Willing hands were needed to build a country during the great western expansion; willing hands were needed to man the factories during the period of industrialization. Those times are long over. Invitations to immigrate to this country have of necessity become more selective. What this country does not not need are great numbers of illegal, largely unskilled immigrants whose numbers overwhelm the country's ability to either absorb them or otherwise deal with them.
8
" Some candidates are even willing to try to trump Mr. Trump in xenophobia: Mr. Carson is talking about using armed military drones at the border. That’s right — bombing Arizona."
I think you may have misunderstood, I think Mr. Carson was talking about bombing Mexico.
But seriously, since when did one-upsmanship not work in politics, especially when the politicians, if you can call them that, are appealing to the most extreme right wing primary voters? As the Editorial Board points out getting to the right of Mr. Trump causes one to take rather curious and pointless positions. But what the heck, let the Republicans self destruct, they don't know how to govern, so why should they be invited to the party?
I think you may have misunderstood, I think Mr. Carson was talking about bombing Mexico.
But seriously, since when did one-upsmanship not work in politics, especially when the politicians, if you can call them that, are appealing to the most extreme right wing primary voters? As the Editorial Board points out getting to the right of Mr. Trump causes one to take rather curious and pointless positions. But what the heck, let the Republicans self destruct, they don't know how to govern, so why should they be invited to the party?
3
No right thinking person gives Donald Trump any chance of becoming the Republican nominee, let alone President. What is so disturbing is that there is a significant portion of our country that actually thinks he's the best of the Republican nominees.
2
If the NY Times were a country with no locks on its doors and no policy of control of its personnel policies, anyone could wander in, flooding its newsrooms, and anyone could qualify to write columns, thereby driving down the salaries of its journalists.
The reason for Mr. Trump's surge in the polls - which this editorial seeks to demonize - is attributable to the fact that the present alternative (to which the NY Times is apparently welded) is fundamentally flawed - and many people (but apparently NOT the NY Times Editorial Board) recognize that fact. The policies that Mr. Trump articulates are by no means perfect - but they are better than the existing alternative.
The reason for Mr. Trump's surge in the polls - which this editorial seeks to demonize - is attributable to the fact that the present alternative (to which the NY Times is apparently welded) is fundamentally flawed - and many people (but apparently NOT the NY Times Editorial Board) recognize that fact. The policies that Mr. Trump articulates are by no means perfect - but they are better than the existing alternative.
3
Why is all the opprobrium heaped on the immigrant worker looking for a decent life and nothing at all on the American business owners who hire them?
The US now has a computerized system to help employers check the bona vides of employees. Probably not perfect, but neither is a wall.
Do construction companies that pick up casual labor from the street corner really believe those guys are legal? Do our cities that allow a hundred workers to gather on a corner?
If you don't dry up the jobs, no wall will be enough. A large percentage of illegals come in through airports and overstay their visas. Is an illegal immigrant that can afford airfare okay, and one who has to walk not? Well, my guess is an unemployed American might prefer the job taken by the former to the job taken by the latter.
The US now has a computerized system to help employers check the bona vides of employees. Probably not perfect, but neither is a wall.
Do construction companies that pick up casual labor from the street corner really believe those guys are legal? Do our cities that allow a hundred workers to gather on a corner?
If you don't dry up the jobs, no wall will be enough. A large percentage of illegals come in through airports and overstay their visas. Is an illegal immigrant that can afford airfare okay, and one who has to walk not? Well, my guess is an unemployed American might prefer the job taken by the former to the job taken by the latter.
3
Those who cam in Mayflowr and those who settled in Jamestown were undocumented, occupied, killed and exterminated those who had this land for thousands of years. Actaully, I am enjoying the GOP circus and Trump as its chimp.
4
It's not even Trump that is scary. What's scary is the number of people commenting on this piece who support his idiocy. You'd expect that at Fox, but so many ill-informed, bigoted responses in the NY Times certainly suggests that the US may be in trouble.
5
Nations in ascendancy build bridges; nations in decline build walls.
6
What is so wrong with Democracy? The people have one idea of all this while the media and politically correct sycophants and politicians have a different view. So, which should prevail? We, the people..... (Any questions?)
1
The the idea Trump is leading the race to the bottom simply isn't true. Unlike the meme the NYT and others continually put forward, he isn't a bombastic outsider. No, this *is* the today's Republican Party.
The ideas trumpeting are ideas that have long been spoken by Republicans leaders in congress, on talk radio and Fox News. If Trump's views on immigration were such an outlier in the Republican Party, why hasn't the Republican led congress been able to pass any meaningful immigration reform? A reminder, this is the same Perty that last Presidential election selected Sarah Pailin for VP.
No, the Republican Party is now owned and lead by the radical right, tea parties and John Birchers.
The ideas trumpeting are ideas that have long been spoken by Republicans leaders in congress, on talk radio and Fox News. If Trump's views on immigration were such an outlier in the Republican Party, why hasn't the Republican led congress been able to pass any meaningful immigration reform? A reminder, this is the same Perty that last Presidential election selected Sarah Pailin for VP.
No, the Republican Party is now owned and lead by the radical right, tea parties and John Birchers.
4
Remember the good old days when gay marriage was going to be the end of the country as far as the GOP was concerned? Now that the luster has faded from that shiny menace they've moved on to immigrants. And the suckers buy it all over again.
If the very fact that a clown like Trump is leading the sorry crowd of GOP candidates doesn't make a person ashamed of being a Republican then obviously nothing will. Sadly, I once thought George W. was as bad as it could possibly get...
If the very fact that a clown like Trump is leading the sorry crowd of GOP candidates doesn't make a person ashamed of being a Republican then obviously nothing will. Sadly, I once thought George W. was as bad as it could possibly get...
6
*Remora: "Any of several fishes of the family Echeneididae, having on the top of the head a sucking disk by which they can attach themselves to sharks, turtles, ships, and other moving objects."... Great (political) science example that just about sums it up! Next, just include the Republican candidate species who are acting like "bottom feeders"; appealing to what represents the dirty bottom of the well of the human personality. The danger of this proto-fascism for all non-Latinos, is that you delude yourself into thinking that this hatred is only about Latinos.
3
The Repubs actually HATE anyone Poorer than they because they think that they are going to have their ill gotten gains stolen from them. Criminals are more likely to believe someone else would steal from them than non-criminals, and since our Congress is absolutely full of extremely corrupt crooks, they think Everybody Else is too, ESPECIALLY those with less money as it means they were not as successful, thus only deserve derision. Repubs/TPers are extremely easy to understand. Their problem with President Obama is that they believe (wrongly) that he had to have cheated and stolen the elections as 'No black man, being criminals all, could ever fairly win the White House with the way we have it rigged'. Which says Worlds about the Repub/TPer mindset.
The Repub/TPers are an insular, closed group that is dictated to by Huge Money and so they have acted nearly in lockstep unison for too long, and their blatant racism against our President is just a small example of what they would unleash large upon the world should they ever be allowed power again.
They need to be removed for Treason, Trump right along with them, the bribing of politicians is illegal, he blatantly pointed out that as a Billionaire, since he Gave to their Campaign, that they then have to follow orders. So, if taking bribes to pass laws that negatively impact Most Americans in favor of a microscopic minority with most of the money is a treasonous act, so is Giving the bribe and the orders to politicians!
The Repub/TPers are an insular, closed group that is dictated to by Huge Money and so they have acted nearly in lockstep unison for too long, and their blatant racism against our President is just a small example of what they would unleash large upon the world should they ever be allowed power again.
They need to be removed for Treason, Trump right along with them, the bribing of politicians is illegal, he blatantly pointed out that as a Billionaire, since he Gave to their Campaign, that they then have to follow orders. So, if taking bribes to pass laws that negatively impact Most Americans in favor of a microscopic minority with most of the money is a treasonous act, so is Giving the bribe and the orders to politicians!
"It has long been a hard job to keep the highly combustible immigration debate on the right side of sanity and reality."
No...it's been a hard job to keep any GOP policy on the right side of sanity and reality.
Name one Republican idea that's been a good idea.
Trickle-down economics ? It decimated the national treasury, aid to states, national infrastructure, the middle class, the poor and made tax evasion highly fashionable
The unregulated 'free market' ? It gave us the most unaffordable healthcare system in the world, the 2008 bankster sociopath economic meltdown and record income inequality
War, War, What Are We Waiting For ? It gave us the Iraq-Middle East destabilization super-catastrophe by the Neo-Con-Artist nincompoops
Money Is Speech ? It gave us a dollaracracy and flushed Thomas Jefferson's democracy down the toilet
2nd Amendment Derangement Syndrome ? It made America a deadly shooting gallery so a few gun factory owners could have infinite profits
Voter Suppression ? It gave us Jeb's 2000 Florida and national hijacking of the public's vote so we could have the worst President in modern history
Birth Control ? Abstinence only allowed - a known and demonstrated failure - a preposterous idea conjured out of a religious fantasy....and no sex education or real contraception allowed
Commingling of Church and State ? Now we have religious corporations
The Republican Party of cultured stupidity is completely disconnected from sanity, reason and basic humanity.
No...it's been a hard job to keep any GOP policy on the right side of sanity and reality.
Name one Republican idea that's been a good idea.
Trickle-down economics ? It decimated the national treasury, aid to states, national infrastructure, the middle class, the poor and made tax evasion highly fashionable
The unregulated 'free market' ? It gave us the most unaffordable healthcare system in the world, the 2008 bankster sociopath economic meltdown and record income inequality
War, War, What Are We Waiting For ? It gave us the Iraq-Middle East destabilization super-catastrophe by the Neo-Con-Artist nincompoops
Money Is Speech ? It gave us a dollaracracy and flushed Thomas Jefferson's democracy down the toilet
2nd Amendment Derangement Syndrome ? It made America a deadly shooting gallery so a few gun factory owners could have infinite profits
Voter Suppression ? It gave us Jeb's 2000 Florida and national hijacking of the public's vote so we could have the worst President in modern history
Birth Control ? Abstinence only allowed - a known and demonstrated failure - a preposterous idea conjured out of a religious fantasy....and no sex education or real contraception allowed
Commingling of Church and State ? Now we have religious corporations
The Republican Party of cultured stupidity is completely disconnected from sanity, reason and basic humanity.
59
It is truly entertaining to watch the Republican candidates try to out-crazy each other for the Fox News crowd. The electorate is desperate to "take back the country" after the horror of 8 years under a moderate, but non-white, Democrat in the White House. One has to wonder, however, if in the privacy of the voting booth, any rational person would carefully consider the consequences and then vote for Mr. Trump as the leader of the free world. Sadly, the answer is yes.
3
This was a critical opportunity for the better GOP candidates to break free from the same old Primary Curse of tilting and twisting to the far right to appease the extremists in their party. They could have created something new: the definition of a new, moderate, in-touch Republican Party. Instead, we get the same pandering nonsense, the same near-hysterical slag heap of extremism.
4
Only the New York Times, and its liberal devotees, could froth so much at what amounts to a promise by Trump that he will follow the law. Does anyone at the paper, or its readership, remember a time when the country valued the rule of law?
Our current situation is essentially open borders, as our increasingly isolated president hunkers down in remote golf clubs or New England islands. If you have the guts to do it, go ahead and propose that the laws be changed to let anyone at all come to America and apply for citizenship.
But, of course, no one would agree. Our illegal alien problem is not one of how to provide amnesty. It is about how to regain control over who may come to live here. And ensuring that the beneficiary of our immigration is America rather than those who arrive illegally.
Our current situation is essentially open borders, as our increasingly isolated president hunkers down in remote golf clubs or New England islands. If you have the guts to do it, go ahead and propose that the laws be changed to let anyone at all come to America and apply for citizenship.
But, of course, no one would agree. Our illegal alien problem is not one of how to provide amnesty. It is about how to regain control over who may come to live here. And ensuring that the beneficiary of our immigration is America rather than those who arrive illegally.
7
Our problem is one of economics. Americans want cheap food, they don't want to work in fields, wash dishes or clean motel rooms. They don't want to pay taxes for government employees.
Take your pick, you can't deport people without it costing billions of dollars and requiring tens of thousands of new government jobs, you can't have cheap food without cheap labor.
Figure it out and get back to us.
Take your pick, you can't deport people without it costing billions of dollars and requiring tens of thousands of new government jobs, you can't have cheap food without cheap labor.
Figure it out and get back to us.
Employment records for years of building Trump's grandiose monuments to self should be available. All those apartment buildings, golf courses, casinos and more are businesses that typically hire undocumented workers ( who may use false documents) in droves. Can Trump show that he used the verification system already in place? Or is he like Romney who famously said, "I can't have illegals!" though they were the workers for his lawn care company?
3
"Flood the country with immigration agents". "immigrants are the reason this country is weak and frightened and going to hell.
If this doesn't scare the hell out of anyone whose parents or grandparents came from another country, perhaps changed their name at Ellis Island or later on to conceal their ethnicity, I cannot understand it.
We the kids the second and third generation immigrants have become anesthetized to the racism, hatred , and xenophobia experienced by our elders. Many of us are professionals, successful businessmen and women.
We think we are immune to these things in many ways. Where have I heard the XXXX are the reason our country is weak and going to hell. Where have I seen "agents" in uniforms running around picking up people suspected of being members of a group. Oh and what about those individuals who are harboring illegals-perhaps your maid, your grandmother from another country who has "overstayed " her visa. We better watch this carefully.
If this doesn't scare the hell out of anyone whose parents or grandparents came from another country, perhaps changed their name at Ellis Island or later on to conceal their ethnicity, I cannot understand it.
We the kids the second and third generation immigrants have become anesthetized to the racism, hatred , and xenophobia experienced by our elders. Many of us are professionals, successful businessmen and women.
We think we are immune to these things in many ways. Where have I heard the XXXX are the reason our country is weak and going to hell. Where have I seen "agents" in uniforms running around picking up people suspected of being members of a group. Oh and what about those individuals who are harboring illegals-perhaps your maid, your grandmother from another country who has "overstayed " her visa. We better watch this carefully.
3
Trump is a nut, but just to be clear, he is not talking about eliminating birthright citizenship completely, but only for the children of illegal immigrants. The Times, being unable to even say the phrase "illegal immigrant", muddles the discussion by not distinguishing between legal and illegal immigrants.
6
Trump is doing us a favor by elevating the issue, forcing the rest of the GOP to show how spineless and outlandish they are, and illuminating the utter impracticality of all other approaches to immigration reform but the sensible, decent, and American-way policies that Obama has proposed and already set in motion.
Time to end birthright citizenship and secure the borders, including greater enforcement against those who overstay their visas. Once we have solid evidence that the borders are controlled, we can then talk about a path to citizenship for those who are here illegally.
1
I was not alive in the 1930s and I have never lived in Germany. It is apparent to me that The Donald is speaking to the far eight wing extrimists of the Republican party. I would be interested to know whether anyone who was present when Hitler was spewing his venom in Germany could compare the tactics of Trump with those of Hilter.
If you think it can't happen here, please explain how it happened in enlightened, educated, and democratic Germany in the 1930s..
If you think it can't happen here, please explain how it happened in enlightened, educated, and democratic Germany in the 1930s..
5
Go Donald Go. The time has come for our incompetent politicians to be shown for what they are doing: ignoring the Constitution. They are charged with protecting our borders. They fail by not stopping illegal immigration and they fail in their efforts to implement effective cyber security. Mostly they just fail. Bring on a true reformer. The future looks bright with Donald!
The Republicans are the party of "far-right ideas. Among them, climate deniers, women's rights deniers, and given a chance they would open the treasury to the Armed Forces.
What happened to sanity? Or, for that matter, sane candidates.
The Republicans should stop and look at themselves and admit they caged by Trump. They have no place to go and refuse to try logic or decency as rallying cries.
What happened to sanity? Or, for that matter, sane candidates.
The Republicans should stop and look at themselves and admit they caged by Trump. They have no place to go and refuse to try logic or decency as rallying cries.
2
I am trying to imagine how much all of this will cost. Where will we get the billions of dollars? What programs will we raid? Which Americans will we punish so that we can punish illegal immigrants?
Because the GOP sure as hell won't raise taxes on rich people to pay for this. They won't raise taxes on corporations or stop funding outlandish subsidies to sugar and oil and agribusiness. They won't do anything to ensure the burden isn't placed on another vulnerable class of people.
And let's talk about agribusiness. Who exactly do we imagine will pick crops for 12 hours a day for minimum wage? Who will work the dairy farms in Vermont and the horse farms in NY?
You don't solve a crisis by appealing to the worst elements of our human nature. Crisis is solved by appealing to the best in ourselves.
Mr. Trump has no best part-he is a megalomaniac content to appeal to the basest of emotions and that anyone would take him or his policy ideas seriously makes me weep for this country.
Because the GOP sure as hell won't raise taxes on rich people to pay for this. They won't raise taxes on corporations or stop funding outlandish subsidies to sugar and oil and agribusiness. They won't do anything to ensure the burden isn't placed on another vulnerable class of people.
And let's talk about agribusiness. Who exactly do we imagine will pick crops for 12 hours a day for minimum wage? Who will work the dairy farms in Vermont and the horse farms in NY?
You don't solve a crisis by appealing to the worst elements of our human nature. Crisis is solved by appealing to the best in ourselves.
Mr. Trump has no best part-he is a megalomaniac content to appeal to the basest of emotions and that anyone would take him or his policy ideas seriously makes me weep for this country.
2
The entire GOP plan could be a ploy to use Trump to throw everything at the electorate and see what sticks. After he drops out, the *real* candidate could approach the people as someone more moderate while promoting the surviving issues. Evil genius stuff.
1
Trump is rude, Trump is irrational. Trump is a panderer. And he may well win the GOP Nomination. GOP economics gave rise to the Gilded Age and was then trounced by the Great Depression and FDR. GOP foreign policy worked during the Cold War, but that is now over. GOP domestic policy is based on racial hatred and fear, and Obama has stoked that flame by being far more effective and capable than they'd hoped and can possibly stand. It remains to be seen whether a majority in America will reject their lies and fear or embrace them.
2
The entire Republican Party - GOP/Tea Party, uncompassionate Conservatives, extreme Right, etc. are being held hostage by Donald Trump's zillion hare-brained ideas to secure our Southwestern border from Central American and Mexican "illegal aliens" who would climb over a wall or tunnel under it to achieve the blessings of El Norte! Trump's extremism is stomach-turning and demented. This man - this NY billionaire scam artist and TV star and bloviator - is convincing his base (whatever that base is) that America is weak and frightened because of immigration issues. Bumfwad, balderdash, poppycock. When will Donald Trump's dread-full elephant in our living-room candidacy end? Alas, not soon enough to prevent the implosion of the 17 wannabe Republican POTUSes, all vying to displace him.
4
This country is troubled not by some illegal immigrants from Mexico who might end up mowing lawns or working in a car wash. The country is troubled by Wall Street chicanery, hedge fund billionaires not paying taxes, a do-nothing Congress controlled by a Know-Nothing party, lack of proper health care, crumbling infrastructure caused by endless tax cuts for the wealthy, jobs shipped overseas to poverty wage countries, and on and on.
But I guess some poor people from Mexico are easy targets - and they don't fight back.
But I guess some poor people from Mexico are easy targets - and they don't fight back.
7
Donald Trumps racism does more than "poison the debate" or encourage fringe elements. Racism never limits itself to a single issue. It affects anyone "suspected" of being an "illegal" or the other who doesn't belong here. It carries over to job applicants, students, persons seeking an apartment. It is the classic "them versus us" emotional appeal of race that has always meant white versus everyone who isn't white.
The Times is far too ginger in its handling of this naked racism. Trump is seeking the national limelight so it's time he faced the national spotlight where his racism will be called for what it is.
His racism today is directed against Mexicans but not the Irish who stayed during the economic slump in Ireland. No sweeps for illegals at the Jersey shore resorts. But it's also been directed against the black community when he called the defendants in the Central Park Five case "animals who should be given the death penalty." No apology came when DNA evidence showed that another man actually committed the crime. Had they been executed he still would have remained smug.
All Donald Trump needs is a uniform, maybe a brown one so his followers could march in the streets with a more identifiable image. For the rest of us let's just remember the slogan, if they come for them in the morning, they will come for you at night.
The Times is far too ginger in its handling of this naked racism. Trump is seeking the national limelight so it's time he faced the national spotlight where his racism will be called for what it is.
His racism today is directed against Mexicans but not the Irish who stayed during the economic slump in Ireland. No sweeps for illegals at the Jersey shore resorts. But it's also been directed against the black community when he called the defendants in the Central Park Five case "animals who should be given the death penalty." No apology came when DNA evidence showed that another man actually committed the crime. Had they been executed he still would have remained smug.
All Donald Trump needs is a uniform, maybe a brown one so his followers could march in the streets with a more identifiable image. For the rest of us let's just remember the slogan, if they come for them in the morning, they will come for you at night.
6
Amendment XIV needs to be modified to read "All persons conceived or naturalized ..." which would eliminate all of this corrupt approach taken by the Central Americans who want to move out of their nations. Another approach would be to make them citizens of the Vatican which supports the overpopulation of its controlled nations and follow this up by charging the Catholic church of the USA for all of the related deportation costs required to transport the entire families to Rome.
Seriously? So if a person's mother gets pregnant on a honeymoon outside the U.S. they're out of luck?
The logic of this piece is laughable. The editors claim that the "well-known solutions" to the problem of illegal immigration are to offer driver's licenses and tuition breaks! Say what? Shouldn't we have some control over who come into the country? I'm amazed at how progressives are now apparently in favor of an open border. And claiming that illegal immigrants don't take away jobs from the lower class is just silly. For all the talk of "racism", maybe the Times editors should take a poll of African Americans to see what they think of illegal immigration and how jobs are being taking away from lower-class blacks. But that would force the editors to look at the issue thoughtfully and they would prefer to engage in name-calling.
2
Immigration boils down to 3 key tenants: history, economics and simple human decency. History: for more than a century American business has reaped billions in profit by explicitly luring workers across the border. If we want to stop this now fine. Modern cyber technology (not 900 ft. fences) probably make this possible. But we need to give those already here a chance for a decent life which they deserve far more than the wrist slaps for those that have reaped billions.
Economics: The Senate bill passed almost 2 years ago was thoroughly analyzed and found to have minimal effect on American citizen’s job and an enormously beneficial effect on the overall economy.
Decency: Preserving America as the land of opportunity is one of our key goals in this time of irrational rhetoric. The overwhelming record of undocumented workers is one of hard work and service to the country- even distinguished military service. Let’s also preserve of America as the land of decency and true moral values.
Economics: The Senate bill passed almost 2 years ago was thoroughly analyzed and found to have minimal effect on American citizen’s job and an enormously beneficial effect on the overall economy.
Decency: Preserving America as the land of opportunity is one of our key goals in this time of irrational rhetoric. The overwhelming record of undocumented workers is one of hard work and service to the country- even distinguished military service. Let’s also preserve of America as the land of decency and true moral values.
3
These ideas and others like them are so extreme they will push more centrist conservatives out leaving a hard core of unelectable candidates and losing positions. This is the moment of the Republican Going Out of Business Sale.
Unfortunately, the idea of updating the US's "birthright" provision in the US Constitution is buried in the racist xenophobia of the balance of Trump's diatribes about immigration. The concept of birthright was included in the Constitution to meet the needs of the US at a time it was first developing and rapid population growth was important. Unfortunately, it has evolved into a system of "birthright shopping tourism."
2
Whoever authored this editorial deserves an A-plus in hitting the mark in concise writing.
Whatever the election's outcome, 'Mr. Trump will have further poisoned the debate with his noxious positions, normalized an extremism whose toxicity is dulled by familiarity and is validated by a feckless party'.
Feckless indeed. That's what you get from politicians who have chosen as their targeted base, the least informed among us; people who are looking in all the wrong places to scapegoat 'someone'.
Twain said it best.
'The difference between the right word and the almost right word is like the difference between lightning and a lightning bug'.
This piece brings the lightning.
Whatever the election's outcome, 'Mr. Trump will have further poisoned the debate with his noxious positions, normalized an extremism whose toxicity is dulled by familiarity and is validated by a feckless party'.
Feckless indeed. That's what you get from politicians who have chosen as their targeted base, the least informed among us; people who are looking in all the wrong places to scapegoat 'someone'.
Twain said it best.
'The difference between the right word and the almost right word is like the difference between lightning and a lightning bug'.
This piece brings the lightning.
1
It seems that the Republicans are dancing dangerously closer to another political party that existed in Germany in the 1930's and 1940's. They too believed that only "Real Germans" deserved the rights of citizens and that non-germans were somehow less. Though I am concerned with H-1B visas certainly the immigrants who come here as migrant workers, landscapers, house cleaners are not these evil people Mr. Trump speaks of. As far as Birthright citizenship, my mother was German, my father American where does that leave me? Am I an "Anchor Baby"? How can we even call ourselves land of the free?
1
It's quite simple. The U.S. cannot afford to be the trough of free stuff for the worlds poor. At the rate we are going, the political class will run out of other people's money and we will all be poor.
It's time countries stop flooding our southern boarder and take responsibility for their own people. Aren't liberals worried about population control? Aren't liberals enamoured with the socialist governments of countries south of the U.S.?
It's time countries stop flooding our southern boarder and take responsibility for their own people. Aren't liberals worried about population control? Aren't liberals enamoured with the socialist governments of countries south of the U.S.?
1
Not exactly a flood. According to the Arizona Republic, "In 2010 1,534 children were born to mothers who did not live in Arizona. That is less than 2 percent of the 88,100 total births at all hospitals in Arizona. The number includes children born to women who were residents of other states, such as California and New Mexico, as well as children born to mothers who are from Mexico or other countries." Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/08/17/20110817births-by-us-v...
One of the key symptoms of Narcissistic Personality Disorder (i.e., Trump) is a lack of empathy. Here is a man who was born to money and status, unable to imagine in the slightest the real-life effects of these draconian policies on actual human beings. Trump is just the loudest and most obnoxious, but it's unnerving how many Republicans overall seem to suffer from what is truly a mental illness.
1
While the NYT may believe that Americans strongly support citizenship for immigrants, what it missing is that Americans, even the liberal sort that frequent these pages, do not strongly support citizenship for illegal immigrants.
The reasons are not too complex ... it revolves around being fair and honest, and sneaking into the country contrary to the law is in fact, neither fair nor honest. It is a deliberate act and a crime. For most Americans that is the beginning and the end of the discussion.
As for the Republican candidates, it is abundantly clear that no act or statement is beneath them in their unbridled quest for power. Except of course, compassion for others.
The reasons are not too complex ... it revolves around being fair and honest, and sneaking into the country contrary to the law is in fact, neither fair nor honest. It is a deliberate act and a crime. For most Americans that is the beginning and the end of the discussion.
As for the Republican candidates, it is abundantly clear that no act or statement is beneath them in their unbridled quest for power. Except of course, compassion for others.
1
It looks like the Republicans are having a Goldwater moment as in 1964. Donald Trump with his out sized ego and blow hard bravura seems to have crumpled the large Republican field.
2
I watched Trump's speech on MSNBC last night and thought of a certain poem. I changed the words slightly:
"They came for the Mexicans but I was silent because I was not Mexican..."
I believe that the actual poem continues with a variety of groups (Jews, Communists, etc.) until they come for the narrator.
That's what's happening here in Trump's America. He's ready to send policemen on the streets to capture "illegal immigrants." OK, what does an illegal immigrant look like? Hispanic? Lots of us look Hispanic. I have been mistaken for Hispanic many times. And many "Hispanics" are in fact legal immigrants. So is he going to look for anyone with a certain color skin and demand their papers?
That's already happened in America. Actually it's STILL happening. Black men and women are asked for their ID (freedom papers) regularly.
With the media (and Hillary herself) bringing down Mrs. Clinton, we desperately need another candidate on the Democratic side. Otherwise, we may indeed have "President Trump" and an American police state with anyone with a skin color that is slightly tanned will be sent off to Guantanamo Bay.
Is this where America is headed?
"They came for the Mexicans but I was silent because I was not Mexican..."
I believe that the actual poem continues with a variety of groups (Jews, Communists, etc.) until they come for the narrator.
That's what's happening here in Trump's America. He's ready to send policemen on the streets to capture "illegal immigrants." OK, what does an illegal immigrant look like? Hispanic? Lots of us look Hispanic. I have been mistaken for Hispanic many times. And many "Hispanics" are in fact legal immigrants. So is he going to look for anyone with a certain color skin and demand their papers?
That's already happened in America. Actually it's STILL happening. Black men and women are asked for their ID (freedom papers) regularly.
With the media (and Hillary herself) bringing down Mrs. Clinton, we desperately need another candidate on the Democratic side. Otherwise, we may indeed have "President Trump" and an American police state with anyone with a skin color that is slightly tanned will be sent off to Guantanamo Bay.
Is this where America is headed?
3
Trump has been very popular despite his boorish behavior because he is saying what the vast majority of Americans are thinking about illegal immigrants. They need to go. This is supposedly a country of laws, someone who begins their American experience showing a lack of respect for our laws will only continue to break them. Illegals burden our healthcare system, drive down wages, take jobs, burden our education system and unfortunately, fill our jails. My guess is if they were all to go tomorrow there would be some temporary disruptions but nothing long lasting. If it were done while simultaneously cracking down on "entitlement" abuses, the abusers would be doing the jobs the illegals used to do, probably for more money. I will bet there are more than 11 million "abusers" to take those jobs.
In addition, the "birthright" laws need to go. People purposely come here just to have an "American" baby. My understanding is that these laws were created post Civil War for slave babies that were born here. It's time for it to go.
In addition, the "birthright" laws need to go. People purposely come here just to have an "American" baby. My understanding is that these laws were created post Civil War for slave babies that were born here. It's time for it to go.
Please tell us exactly how that would work. I have yet to see one mild, modest proposal of a plan that would implement "got to gO"
Study after study confirms the positive impact immigration has on a countries GNP. In the long-term, countries that have restricted immigration (e.g. Japan) are facing a dismal future, with aging populations and no one to support them. But, the Republicans are gifted at taking a known positive and turn it into a terrible negative. The continued support of Trump and his band of know-nothings is troublesome. No matter what you think about the problem, how in an advanced democracy, can a citizen even think about supporting candidates who mouth the kind of hate we are now hearing from Republican stages --- that is what we are hearing, pure, unadulterated hate.
2
The real problem lays with the Republican Congressional leadership, who claimed they were going to finally fix immigration now that they controlled both houses. Realizing that they could never satisfy the more extreme fringes of their own party, though, they quickly dropped all plans to even attempt reform, with the lame excuse that the President had had the gall to create a temporary fix with his executive actions. So they got mad and took their bat and ball home. And now Donald shows up and puts them in an even worse situation. Guess they should have acted when they could have rather than pouted.
1
This whole issue seems to be less about immigration than about doing something, anything, about taking bold action, doing what needs to be done. Trump could have chosen a different topic for his bombast. He could have promised to rebuild American infrastructure, buildings, railways, roads, made America great again in this positive sense, but he chose to argue that all are problems have been caused by Mexicans. If all Mexicans and their children were deported tomorrow and we had a gigantic wall to keep them out, America would be great again.If our greatness depends upon so much suffering, how great can we actually be?
2
This election cycle has proven me wrong about a number of things.
For example: I though the New York Times was the grand porte-parole of American upper-middle-brow bien pensance i.e. "Vital Center"-left liberalism. The quality of their critiques of the right has plunged so far downhill I wonder if they are not a plant with the aim of intellectually discrediting the left. I have never met a single intelligent person - left or right - who was willing to explain what overall tangible good would come of the current immigration invasion.
And, I thought Trump was just another Murdoch hack whom the GOP establishment could make to back down or could vanquish at will. How he has been surging ahead unapologetically is so astonishing I suspect we will have to wait for several decades of hindsight to analyze the situation.
For example: I though the New York Times was the grand porte-parole of American upper-middle-brow bien pensance i.e. "Vital Center"-left liberalism. The quality of their critiques of the right has plunged so far downhill I wonder if they are not a plant with the aim of intellectually discrediting the left. I have never met a single intelligent person - left or right - who was willing to explain what overall tangible good would come of the current immigration invasion.
And, I thought Trump was just another Murdoch hack whom the GOP establishment could make to back down or could vanquish at will. How he has been surging ahead unapologetically is so astonishing I suspect we will have to wait for several decades of hindsight to analyze the situation.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but they do in fact make the Right
The "immigration issue" would not be a problem if the "huddled masses" were mainly coming from across the Atlantic and Eastern or Western Europe. American arms would be as welcoming of them as they've always been. Color trumps everything. [pun not intended; even he does not deserve that much heft]
3
I am stunned by the silence or even modest demurring of the leadership of the Republican party and his fellow candidates to Trump's demonizing of an entire ethic group as the source of all the economic problems of our country. To add that it isn't even correct seems superfluous. If there isn't a single big strong person that can take on the bully, it is way past time for a big bunch of sissies to circle him and say we aren't going to let you keep on talking that way. Instead of acting like the only person that needs to be opposed is HRC, the other Republican wannabes better start looking at exactly whom they want on the next stage debating against them.
Never has the United States felt more foreign to those of us in Canada than when we read about immigration or gun issues. Almost makes me want to ask for our own fence. However it is gratifying to read many of the informed and civilized comments of Americans who live in the real world and seek sensible practical solutions/policies. Perhaps the aboriginal people should just deport all the rest of us?
3
>>>He would restrict legal immigration, and impose a national job-verification system so that everyone, citizens too, would need federal permission to work.
Trump is a bloviating jerk, but the problems caused by too much immigration, including illegal immigration are real, and Americans are angry, or Trump would be out of the primary by now instead of leading it.
E-Verify is a quick, easy system that is working for thousands of companies to verify citizenship or legal residency so that people who are here illegally do not take jobs from citizens and those immigrants who are here legally.
And what is wrong with reducing the numbers of immigrants to levels that do not put Americans out of work, and do not threaten the US environment (did you read in your paper about the terrible drought in California? Agriculture uses 80% of the water, and California agriculture feeds the nation, and do we really want the population to grow by another 100 million (5 New York States) by 2050 as the Census and the Pew Research Center predict?
Trump is a bloviating jerk, but the problems caused by too much immigration, including illegal immigration are real, and Americans are angry, or Trump would be out of the primary by now instead of leading it.
E-Verify is a quick, easy system that is working for thousands of companies to verify citizenship or legal residency so that people who are here illegally do not take jobs from citizens and those immigrants who are here legally.
And what is wrong with reducing the numbers of immigrants to levels that do not put Americans out of work, and do not threaten the US environment (did you read in your paper about the terrible drought in California? Agriculture uses 80% of the water, and California agriculture feeds the nation, and do we really want the population to grow by another 100 million (5 New York States) by 2050 as the Census and the Pew Research Center predict?
I can't wait for an undocumented legal immigrant to California to take that state's university system to court over their discriminatory policy of charging some out of state students (those from other US states) more than others (illegal immigrants). All the "out of state" students should join a class action law suit against the state over this issue.
2
What is an undocuemented legal immigrant...and what are you talking about? and why?
The GOP doesn't want reform or any realistic solution to immigration. It's one of their trump cards (no pun intended) that they can throw out at election time to fan the flames of fear among their electorate. If the immigration issues were settled, they'd lose their (perceived) advantage.
Let's not pretend any of this is designed, however misdirected, for real change.
Let's not pretend any of this is designed, however misdirected, for real change.
2
Congratulations on the best statement, in substance and style, so far this campaign: "The danger is that when the campaign is over, no matter what becomes of Mr. Trump’s candidacy, he will have further poisoned the debate with his noxious positions, normalized an extremism whose toxicity is dulled by familiarity and is validated by a feckless party."
Your position encourages me to hope Trump secures the GOP nomination (not, of course, the election). The only way to save the Republican Party may be for him to destroy it.
Your position encourages me to hope Trump secures the GOP nomination (not, of course, the election). The only way to save the Republican Party may be for him to destroy it.
6
The GOP has long encouraged demagogues like Trump and Palin (another patently unfit candidate) as useful for rallying the base, stimulating enthusiasm, and - in theory - allowing more viable candidates to look moderate by comparison. Indeed, Richard Nixon started out as one such.
It's a dangerous game the GOP plays. We laugh at Trump this time; in 4 years perhaps his vile rhetoric will be perceived as mainstream.
It's a dangerous game the GOP plays. We laugh at Trump this time; in 4 years perhaps his vile rhetoric will be perceived as mainstream.
Americans who comply with the law are enraged that our immigration laws are not enforced.
Unlike the Times editorial board, I have lived in Mexico. It is not a culture that respects laws.
The USA cannot survive as a republic when millions of people break our laws and are rewarded for it.
Trump and others are saying what is obvious to anyone who has been to the West of the USA; there is a quiet invasion going on today, and this lawlessness should stop today.
Unlike the Times editorial board, I have lived in Mexico. It is not a culture that respects laws.
The USA cannot survive as a republic when millions of people break our laws and are rewarded for it.
Trump and others are saying what is obvious to anyone who has been to the West of the USA; there is a quiet invasion going on today, and this lawlessness should stop today.
2
Everything that's not just right about our country is obviously some foreigners fault. 11 out of 320 million, about 3.4% and they are destroying our country.
What does it say about our country that a largely impoverished, under-the-radar, portion of 3.4% of the population is leading to it's downfall.
These clowns know that there is always someone else to blame. Their mantra is "personal responsibility" unless it means that they themselves are responsible.
What does it say about our country that a largely impoverished, under-the-radar, portion of 3.4% of the population is leading to it's downfall.
These clowns know that there is always someone else to blame. Their mantra is "personal responsibility" unless it means that they themselves are responsible.
4
Our press and electronic media, and tens of millions of people, are preoccupied with witnessing and analyzing the words and actions of an individual whom medical authorities consider as suffering from acute narcissism. That is our sickness. G.O.P. candidates for President who emulate Donald Trump reveal their ineptitude and deserve to lose.
1
You make some excellent points, but when you refer to people who broke into my house without permission as "Americans in waiting", it sends a shiver down my spine. Not because of who they are, but because it is the mirror image of the nakedness of force Trump represents. As the son of a legal immigrant I am fully cognizant of the difference between earning citizenship, which my father did, and stealing it, which is what advocates of the 11 million people who arrived here illegally are attempting to do. I have no love for Trump or his heartless ideas, especially his plan to change the Constitution. I have little more for the idea of "We broke into your nice house, you can't kick us out and oh, by the way, put our names on the deed because if you don't you're a racist."
Instead of Trump's ham-fisted methods of addressing our immigration problem, we should be easing up on restrictions to legal immigration that make people desperate enough to cross over illegally in the first place. That way we increase the chances that someone who wants to be a citizen here doesn't violate the first responsibility of a citizen in coming here, i.e., to obey the law. That way we will have fewer people living in shadows, which will be better for everyone.
Instead of Trump's ham-fisted methods of addressing our immigration problem, we should be easing up on restrictions to legal immigration that make people desperate enough to cross over illegally in the first place. That way we increase the chances that someone who wants to be a citizen here doesn't violate the first responsibility of a citizen in coming here, i.e., to obey the law. That way we will have fewer people living in shadows, which will be better for everyone.
1
The republican/Trump answer to just about every problem facing our nation is No No NO!
The one position I have not heard from one of these bloviators; going after the illegal hirers. If American companies were paying prevailing wages, not right to work wages, more of the jobs would be going to Anglos. But since our 'job creators' would rather pay plantation wages they are hiring those who are willing and able to work for plantation wages.
I remember how hard it was to try to pass the Equal Rights Amendment, giving women equal standing in the Constitution, and conservatives blocking it at every turn. Now they want to amend the Constitution by waving their magic wands and undoing 150 years of precedent. (It is unthinkable that Carson is joining this cacophony.)
The republican anthem is starting to sound like "America, Land of Sissies and Cowards".
Trump is running for der Fuhrer.
The one position I have not heard from one of these bloviators; going after the illegal hirers. If American companies were paying prevailing wages, not right to work wages, more of the jobs would be going to Anglos. But since our 'job creators' would rather pay plantation wages they are hiring those who are willing and able to work for plantation wages.
I remember how hard it was to try to pass the Equal Rights Amendment, giving women equal standing in the Constitution, and conservatives blocking it at every turn. Now they want to amend the Constitution by waving their magic wands and undoing 150 years of precedent. (It is unthinkable that Carson is joining this cacophony.)
The republican anthem is starting to sound like "America, Land of Sissies and Cowards".
Trump is running for der Fuhrer.
5
In 1987 I started employing a Latina woman to help me with cleaning my home. As a mother and a full time worker I needed someone to clean once a week. She still works for me.
In the early 80's she had left Mexico with her husband to find work and a better life for her children, entering the US illegally. After we had known each other for a long time, she described to me how she came to be here. It did not sound remotely easy, but did sound scary and difficult. I consider her my friend. Our children played together, she went on vacation with us with her children. She and her husband worked very hard, saved almost every penny they earned, bought a home here, and one in Mexico for her mother to live in. Her 2 children were born here and both went to college. One is a physician in Mexico now because the tuition for medical school in Mexico is very affordable. The other is more American than Mexican and is attending college here. She applied for and was granted amnesty by RONALD REAGAN in the early 80's. She is now a full citizen of the USA. So here is just one story of an illegal immigrant who has contributed to our society, and still does. Her family pays taxes and are model Americans. They are not criminal or rapists Mr. Trump.
We are all immigrants to this nation unless we are Native American. You don't look like an American Indian to me Mr. Trump.
In the early 80's she had left Mexico with her husband to find work and a better life for her children, entering the US illegally. After we had known each other for a long time, she described to me how she came to be here. It did not sound remotely easy, but did sound scary and difficult. I consider her my friend. Our children played together, she went on vacation with us with her children. She and her husband worked very hard, saved almost every penny they earned, bought a home here, and one in Mexico for her mother to live in. Her 2 children were born here and both went to college. One is a physician in Mexico now because the tuition for medical school in Mexico is very affordable. The other is more American than Mexican and is attending college here. She applied for and was granted amnesty by RONALD REAGAN in the early 80's. She is now a full citizen of the USA. So here is just one story of an illegal immigrant who has contributed to our society, and still does. Her family pays taxes and are model Americans. They are not criminal or rapists Mr. Trump.
We are all immigrants to this nation unless we are Native American. You don't look like an American Indian to me Mr. Trump.
246
The ignorance and sheer meanness of this man are sickening. A Latina man once did some stonework for me. They were immigrants and their sons were both gifted students. One was valedictorian of his class and was offered scholarships in engineering by all the top colleges in the U.S. He chose Stanford. The hard work and honesty of the Mexican-Americans here in California makes me admire and respect them.
I understand your comment - the Latino lady is clearly very hardworking and so is her family. Our problem with illegal immigrants isn't that many of them are a credit to the country (which they are) but that they are ILLEGAL with all the problems that has presented after decades of it.
If there had been a decent system to control immigration by application to government and assessment, your lady may have got in or may not. I am a legal immigrant. The process that my wife and I went through took over two years, although that is pretty rapid.
If there had been a decent system to control immigration by application to government and assessment, your lady may have got in or may not. I am a legal immigrant. The process that my wife and I went through took over two years, although that is pretty rapid.
So you got to pay her low wages for all those years, while not having to contribute to her payroll taxes? And who paid for the birth of those two children, since you did not provide your worker with health insurance?
You are the one who is not a 'model American'.
You are the one who is not a 'model American'.
Donald Trump is a simple man or, perhaps, a simpleton. His ideas are devoid of reality and its attendant nuance and complexity. Being bumper-sticker in size--"Export Illegal Aliens", "Drill Baby Drill,"--they fit perfectly into contemporary conservatives' disdain for anything remotely complex, which is, of course, the way of the world.
2
Those G.O.P. candidates who are following Trump in a race to the bottom, are who created the conditions that precipitated it. We have an overarching policy amongst elected officials and the leaders of private institutions to never disclose the full picture completely and accurately in all of it's complexity and inelegant details, lest the clamor and chaotic responses prevent them from fulfilling their responsibilities. Instead, they report that all is going according to plans except a few that have become public but that they are having the best people that they can find working it all out. The result is a lot of information shared by public officials that seldom represents the real situation. The result is that the people not in the know end up frustrated with only general impressions as to the reasons. Trump is voicing those general impressions and articulating simple solutions that follow from those impressions.
1
You do not fully appreciate the problem the Rep candidates face. They all know they cannot win if they sound moderate. The Rep base is now just too extreme. Trump has exaggerated the natural tendency of the other candidates to find favor with the lowest common denominator of Republicanism. After the primary, they all hope, the winner will be able to back up a bit. After all, even the least extreme of the bunch will be far to the right of the Dem (whoever she is). Not a bad strategy; everyone knows candidates lie. But the problem that Trump really presents is his threat to leave the party. If he runs as an independent, Reps lose. In fact, I do not think it may matter if he carries out his threat or not. The base has been encouraged to go extreme; they will vote will Trump if he wins or goes independent. If he just slips into the night, they will be so disappointed that they (probably about 5-10% of this country) they may not vote at all. Dems will win and not just the presidency: there could a landslide on the local level as well.
My scenario might be wrong, but this is the bigger point. These are desperate but not stupid people. They are thinking through the situation and making rational (if amoral) decisions. We will be making a serious mistake if we do not understand our enemy.
My scenario might be wrong, but this is the bigger point. These are desperate but not stupid people. They are thinking through the situation and making rational (if amoral) decisions. We will be making a serious mistake if we do not understand our enemy.
3
Go Trump,We have laws,these peopleneed to come in thge right, as a country there has to be laws
Who is your enemy?
The Trump is hard to defend; what with his situation on the opposite side of the continuum occupied by mealy mouthed, lying, practiced political operatives. As an immigrant (yes, legal) I get edgy when people attack immigrants. But the current idiocy about immigration-related discourse in the country deserves examination.
A candidate can talk openly about getting rid of the EPA (so that all of us die from poisoned water, air, and land), getting rid of the IRS (the only known way to keep taxes progressive and fair), getting rid of Dept of Ed (so that states, particularly southern ones, wishing to produce a totally ignorant population can now do so), declaring war on other countries (killing our young talent, and others overseas) - and be regarded as perfectly sane, reasonable, and eligible.
Why might these positions not be worthy of collective ridicule? Why is Trump getting this grief for saying he will enforce American law? No he cannot deport entire families, so let's call that unworkable. But I know things have gone too far when a talking head from the most popular Spanish language TV channel (Jorge Ramos) demands an explanation from the elected president of the US (Obama) because he has dared to deport illegals (net illegal immigration from Mexico during Obama = 0). Should breakers of American law be treated differently because they represent a large voting block?
Kalidan
A candidate can talk openly about getting rid of the EPA (so that all of us die from poisoned water, air, and land), getting rid of the IRS (the only known way to keep taxes progressive and fair), getting rid of Dept of Ed (so that states, particularly southern ones, wishing to produce a totally ignorant population can now do so), declaring war on other countries (killing our young talent, and others overseas) - and be regarded as perfectly sane, reasonable, and eligible.
Why might these positions not be worthy of collective ridicule? Why is Trump getting this grief for saying he will enforce American law? No he cannot deport entire families, so let's call that unworkable. But I know things have gone too far when a talking head from the most popular Spanish language TV channel (Jorge Ramos) demands an explanation from the elected president of the US (Obama) because he has dared to deport illegals (net illegal immigration from Mexico during Obama = 0). Should breakers of American law be treated differently because they represent a large voting block?
Kalidan
1
Come in the right way,what is it you don't get, look at our country.
"Americans strongly support an earned path to citizenship for immigrants, strengthening families and industries and giving strivers the chance to pay this country back."
Can someone help me understand? On several big and important issues, clear majorities of Americans do not want the policies espoused by Republicans in Congress. I speak of unambiguous majorities, such as that supporting action on climate change, or here on immigration reform. What minority club is it into which Republicans in Congress are initiated that so compels them to NOT represent the majority desires of the nation (our government is supposed to be representational)? A clear majority of Americans also voted President Obama into office twice, yet he has been continually obstructed in what looks like nothing so much a concerted vendetta against the will of those clear majorities of citizens. Is there some kind of "senior salute" initiation right for Republicans in a subterranean mechanical room of the U.S. Capitol building? Who holds the secret key?
Can someone help me understand? On several big and important issues, clear majorities of Americans do not want the policies espoused by Republicans in Congress. I speak of unambiguous majorities, such as that supporting action on climate change, or here on immigration reform. What minority club is it into which Republicans in Congress are initiated that so compels them to NOT represent the majority desires of the nation (our government is supposed to be representational)? A clear majority of Americans also voted President Obama into office twice, yet he has been continually obstructed in what looks like nothing so much a concerted vendetta against the will of those clear majorities of citizens. Is there some kind of "senior salute" initiation right for Republicans in a subterranean mechanical room of the U.S. Capitol building? Who holds the secret key?
3
Donald Trump is an idiot in a three piece suit. However, what he is stating in an extreme way is something that has been simmering below the surface for a very long time. A great deal of Americans have been waiting for years for the problem of illegal immigration to be addressed, both Republicans and Democrats. A living wage, the unemployment of lower skilled workers, gang wars, the lack of any kind of serious effort to address the needs of African Americans, the flooding of schools with children that do not speak English, the list is and has been growing for years. Amnesty in the past has only increased the efforts to enter the country illegally. And, that is the key word, no matter how many times the NYT uses the word undocumented. They are here illegally. Those that apply LEGALLY must wait years. I'm sure more than a few of them wonder why they bothered. Why should they, when you can break the law and be rewarded for it? Trump's words were extreme, but he struck a real nerve for the millions of Americans that have been affected in dozens of ways by illegal immigrants. President Obama's executive action angered more people than the Democrats realize. Down here, a lot of people in my area that were willing to finally listen and possibly vote for them turned away because they felt that the only issue Democrats seemed to be willing to fight for were illegal immigrants. The anger will continue to grow if real solutions continue to be ignored.
1
It should be no surprise that Trump's competitors are following him to the bottom on this issue. He is suffocating them with his bombast, and according to a Talmudic precept, "A drowning man will clutch even the edge of a sword." Trump has reduced this summer into sword-clutching. He sets the agenda, and the other candidates, regardless if they find what he pontificates outlandish or hurtful, will echo him if for no other reason to share some of the oxygen Trump is monopolizing. The prospects of a Trump-Clinton election are frightening: A raging narcissist versus an arrogant deceiver. Let's hope Biden and/or Warren can rescue us.
1
Donald Trump espouses the views of the Republican Party - i.e. the people that vote in nominating contents for Republican presidential candidates. The other candidates aren't taking the low road or any other road. They are reflecting the true views of their party which has been generally anxious about:
de-europeanization of America
loss of majority caucasian status in various states
the perception that immigration is a zero-sum game and the new immigrant is the winner and the citizen is the loser
having a black President who may or not have been born in the US and may or may not be a secret Muslim.
To me the above basic values and beliefs reflect a fundamental misunderstanding about what makes America great, but there they are and it is important to note that this is real substance, not style.
de-europeanization of America
loss of majority caucasian status in various states
the perception that immigration is a zero-sum game and the new immigrant is the winner and the citizen is the loser
having a black President who may or not have been born in the US and may or may not be a secret Muslim.
To me the above basic values and beliefs reflect a fundamental misunderstanding about what makes America great, but there they are and it is important to note that this is real substance, not style.
1
I watched the GOP candidates a lot recently. I saw some of Trump's town hall in Derry NH. I've had the privilege of hearing men of intelligence and good will in politics in many countries, especially in Ireland and in the USA. There I have also heard ignorant charlatans spout nonsense, and none more than Trump. Usually such people are amusing, but Trump is beyond a joke, and may become a national disaster. Unsupported and unsupportable statements do not add up to policy.
(FYI: Derry= gaelic Doire = oak grove. When much of Ulster was harvested as low hanging fruit by the English crown, the Derry area was allocated to the merchants of the City of London as developers and tax gatherers--they renamed it Londonderry. Ugh! What you call it says who you are, planter or dispossessed.)
(FYI: Derry= gaelic Doire = oak grove. When much of Ulster was harvested as low hanging fruit by the English crown, the Derry area was allocated to the merchants of the City of London as developers and tax gatherers--they renamed it Londonderry. Ugh! What you call it says who you are, planter or dispossessed.)
2
The wave of xenophobic scapegoating that Trump is both tapping into and inciting in a wave of hate-filled hysteria masquerading as patriotism certainly should help us better understand the social disease of the German body politic during the 1930's. Of course, it's different. No historical analogy is perfect. But that analogy nonetheless should give us pause and make us think.
2
We ought to be thanking the Donald for forcing the GOP to come to terms with a problem that is bleeding this country to death. I live in an agricultural based small town in Fl. I have seen first hand the people who I believe to be illegal lining up at our local health dept, sitting in the waiting room at the emergency room for the medical services that they will get and not pay for. They come into these places dragging their one and two year old kids while pregnant with another. I have watched as the schools get out and the little children march out to their buses and do not see any white faces in the crowd. Do the parents of these kids pay for the schools? Probably not. Do they pay taxes, probably not. Do they have health insurance , probably not. At 68 years old, I paid for better than 40 years, premiums for my insurance, while working with my hands as a carpenter. I paid my income taxes, paid my real estate taxes for all my life, and presently pay real estate taxes to support schools that I have no children in.
I don't care what color anyone is that contributes to our American way of life. The key word is contribute. We no longer can stand the extra costs in health insurance, taxes for schools, and all the other give away to people who come here illegally. Donald is right now, the voice we have been wanting to hear for so long. Beef up the INS, and get the buses ready.
I don't care what color anyone is that contributes to our American way of life. The key word is contribute. We no longer can stand the extra costs in health insurance, taxes for schools, and all the other give away to people who come here illegally. Donald is right now, the voice we have been wanting to hear for so long. Beef up the INS, and get the buses ready.
1
Trump is simply following the GOP playbook -
Identify a problem. Lord knows, we have plenty.
Inflate it to the point of being a threat to our way of living.
Identify some segment of society to blame, real or imagined.
Throw out some simplistic solutions, that appeal to our baser instincts. Generally, the solutions involve destroying something and inflicting pain and suffering on "them".
Collect the donations.
Repeat.
Identify a problem. Lord knows, we have plenty.
Inflate it to the point of being a threat to our way of living.
Identify some segment of society to blame, real or imagined.
Throw out some simplistic solutions, that appeal to our baser instincts. Generally, the solutions involve destroying something and inflicting pain and suffering on "them".
Collect the donations.
Repeat.
2
On a side note, I hope the author of this article understands that citizenship acquired by bloodline (technically, it has nothing to do with blood, only with a parent-child relationship) is just as much "birthright citizenship" as citizenship acquired by being born on a particular soil (ius soli). Moreover, many more enlightened countries than the U.S. have a preference for birthright citizenship through blood (ius sanguinis) and there are very strong arguments for this.
1
other than his boorish manner of speaking, Trump is right. this isn't about immigration, its about illegally entering or staying the country. and it isn't racism - it is only by an accident of geography that we are focusing on Mexicans and other Hispanic people, they are the majority of the lawbreakers because they can get here more easily than say, people from Zimbabwe. the liberal press always mixes legal immigration with the problem of 11 million people breaking the law. I am all for immigration reform here's mine:
1. safely and humanely return people who are here illegally to their homes. 2. charge the country of their origin a very stiff fine fir failure to enforce their borders. after all, there are 2 sides to every border, we should not have to all the work and shoulder the expense alone. after a few hundred million dollars some of these countries will start securing their own borders. 3. use the funds to build the wall, hire more personnel and buy technology to better secure our borders
1. safely and humanely return people who are here illegally to their homes. 2. charge the country of their origin a very stiff fine fir failure to enforce their borders. after all, there are 2 sides to every border, we should not have to all the work and shoulder the expense alone. after a few hundred million dollars some of these countries will start securing their own borders. 3. use the funds to build the wall, hire more personnel and buy technology to better secure our borders
1
Objections to Donald Trump's immigration ideas are "mild, and oddly muted." So we have the Pied Piper/Carnival Barker leading the GOP over the cliff. And many of the candidates are adopting his anti-birthright-citizenship plan.
Of course, the GOP needs the Latino vote. The party promised to reform after the 2012 election. Promises clearly not kept. The Donald is taking the bus in the wrong direction. He will be the major factor in ensuring a Democratic victory next year.
Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio have an excellent opportunity to separate themselves from this madness. But they have been largely silent.
"The ultimate tragedy is not the oppression and cruelty by the bad people, but the silence over that by the good people." Martin Luther King, Jr
Of course, the GOP needs the Latino vote. The party promised to reform after the 2012 election. Promises clearly not kept. The Donald is taking the bus in the wrong direction. He will be the major factor in ensuring a Democratic victory next year.
Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio have an excellent opportunity to separate themselves from this madness. But they have been largely silent.
"The ultimate tragedy is not the oppression and cruelty by the bad people, but the silence over that by the good people." Martin Luther King, Jr
2
As Beth Reese said, it's more horrifying that there are voters who support Trump and all these other GOP presidential candidates. There are, how many millions of these Republicans versus one Donald Trump and 16 candidates? Whatever these candidates or GOP politicians have done or are still doing, the voters are following willingly, nobody put a gun to their head. They are in fact cheering on the politicians for such behavior.
Despite the "superpower" status of United States, the quality and character of our people is thoroughly inferior. This should be the more worrisome fact of this country.
As it is, at least half of our citizenry have NO ability to think critically or discern fiction from facts, and are very proud to be so. Putting the biggest military power in the hands of ignorant and selfish people like these is very dangerous and maybe even suicidal, to others and to ourselves.
Despite the "superpower" status of United States, the quality and character of our people is thoroughly inferior. This should be the more worrisome fact of this country.
As it is, at least half of our citizenry have NO ability to think critically or discern fiction from facts, and are very proud to be so. Putting the biggest military power in the hands of ignorant and selfish people like these is very dangerous and maybe even suicidal, to others and to ourselves.
1
I respect the free exchange of ideas and opinions as long as it goes both ways. What is glaringly missing in this opinion piece is how illegal immigration benefits legal immigrants and US born citizens. I don't think taking a position in support of issues that help naturalized citizens and US born citizens instead of illegal immigrants is considered hateful or racist. If you don't support your own citizens, then who do you support? The second paragraph outlines Mr. Trump's grand plan on resolving the issue of illegal immigrants, this position is criticized as latent racism or cruelty to the poor. If this is such a horrible position to take, why is Trump leaning the Republican field? Yesterday, CNN released a poll, a match up between Clinton and Trump, and he is only down 6% in this match up; a 35% improvement from just 2 months ago.
Is everyone supporting Trump crazy? Racist? Low information voters? They number in the millions, can they all be Americans with hate in their hearts? Or may be some things are true, even if Trump said it. And we all know he he has no filter, he's unscripted, he blurts words out of his mouth with whatever comes to mind. However, what he is saying, is what many Americans are saying behind closed doors, with friends and family at the dinner table or at a bar. Just because they don't say it at work are make a post on FaceBook about it, it doesn't mean these feelings don't exist. There is truly a silent majority out there and Trump recognizes it.
Is everyone supporting Trump crazy? Racist? Low information voters? They number in the millions, can they all be Americans with hate in their hearts? Or may be some things are true, even if Trump said it. And we all know he he has no filter, he's unscripted, he blurts words out of his mouth with whatever comes to mind. However, what he is saying, is what many Americans are saying behind closed doors, with friends and family at the dinner table or at a bar. Just because they don't say it at work are make a post on FaceBook about it, it doesn't mean these feelings don't exist. There is truly a silent majority out there and Trump recognizes it.
1
I hear truth not hate, when these people come they have one thing on their minds to milk the system.so many times I triedto get a job, they have them, I'll pick fruit ,clean houses, child care. I am not lazy. Please give me work
1
The inconsistency in the Republican brain is frightening. These folks want to stop birthright citizenship because it was only designed to help slave children. First, where does the word slave appear in the 14th amendment? And second, I'm doubting these same folks would have been happy to see even slave children become citizens--after all, they were black.
But how do they reconcile their hatred of Hispanic mothers who come to the U.S. to have their children with their cult of fetus worship? I can't actually imagine anything a woman could do to help her unborn child more than try to obtain American citizenship for it. And if I were one of those women, I might try to do the same thing. I've long told my children their most valuable possessions are their U.S. passports, documenting U.S. citizenship.
But the Tea Party who are so proud of their own citizenship, are vicious in trying to prevent others from getting it. Some want to eliminate all immigration altogether. What rock do these people live under to be so stupid and mean?
But how do they reconcile their hatred of Hispanic mothers who come to the U.S. to have their children with their cult of fetus worship? I can't actually imagine anything a woman could do to help her unborn child more than try to obtain American citizenship for it. And if I were one of those women, I might try to do the same thing. I've long told my children their most valuable possessions are their U.S. passports, documenting U.S. citizenship.
But the Tea Party who are so proud of their own citizenship, are vicious in trying to prevent others from getting it. Some want to eliminate all immigration altogether. What rock do these people live under to be so stupid and mean?
3
If we stop future illegal immigration, Americans illegal immigrant population will rapidly vanish. Like everyone else, illegal immigrants grow old and die. In about 73 years—the average life expectancy—nearly all will be gone. The wall won’t stop illegal immigration, and the federal government on its own cannot stop legal immigration. But we can stop illegal immigration by making living in the United States inconvenient for illegal immigrants. We should make E-Verify mandatory nationwide and pass congressional legislation that empowers states, counties and cities to enact their own laws and ordinances that make residing within their jurisdictions without authorization illegal. We should also automatically deny asylum to anyone who enters the country illegally. (Asylum seekers know they are supposed to request asylum at U.S. embassies in their home countries or at legal ports of entry.) When the measures are in effect, we could tear down the border wall, grant citizenship to those enrolled Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals, and speed up the elimination of illegal immigrants by granting permanent legal resident status to those illegal immigrants who have established households in the United States.
You helped create the Trump monster too, NYT, take a bow. Trump is lancing a boil that has festered because both Democrats and Republicans have tiptoed around the issue of immigration while dismissing the concerns of Americans who have seen their wages flatlined and jobs disappear, workforce participation at the lowest levels in decades. GDP up, along with the Gini coeffecient. While school and healthcare budgets get stretched to the breaking point. Bet you think it had nothing to do with with the low Dem turnout last November too.
If Trump induces an adult conversation about illegal immigration, based in reality with pros and cons, costs and benefits, and some workable solutions mooted, then possibly we'll get lucky and he'll disappear while more sensible and less odious heads prevail.
If Trump induces an adult conversation about illegal immigration, based in reality with pros and cons, costs and benefits, and some workable solutions mooted, then possibly we'll get lucky and he'll disappear while more sensible and less odious heads prevail.
49
The gaping hole in your comment is "If Trump induces an adult conversation". That will never happen. Trump mostly deals in bombast, with the finish that all of his policies will happen because , you know , I am so smart and so rich and I am the "Donald" so the leaders of other countries will just do as I say. The snotty rich brat expecting everybody will believe he is as great and wonderful as he is in his own mind.
Trump is disgusting overall, and his immigration "policies," in their blatant racism and cruelty, particularly disgusting. But this doesn't mean that the laws on immigration shouldn't be more rigorously and fairly enforced, or that they don't need revising, or even that the birthright amendment, ratified in the mid-19th century, is no longer a good thing for this country. Why is it horrible to say any of this? The 21st century requires an immigration policy that balances compassion for the many migrants who want to come here with compassion for struggling Americans already here.
A real discussion about illegal immigration would have to include the fact that Americans need to own up to their hypocrisy. They may openly fret over illegal immigration, but they like the fruits of the cheap labor of illegal immigrants.
It's wishful thinking, but it would be nice if Trumps ugly talk about immigration morphed into an open and honest discussion--more open and honest that that of the Editorial Board of the Times--of the both the strains and gains of illegal immigration.
A real discussion about illegal immigration would have to include the fact that Americans need to own up to their hypocrisy. They may openly fret over illegal immigration, but they like the fruits of the cheap labor of illegal immigrants.
It's wishful thinking, but it would be nice if Trumps ugly talk about immigration morphed into an open and honest discussion--more open and honest that that of the Editorial Board of the Times--of the both the strains and gains of illegal immigration.
58
As a legal immigrant who became naturalized citizen. I have always been outraged age how the illegals have flaunted the laws and taken advantage or our Nations generosity and then always pushing for more and more privileges. I am thankful for Mr Trump who is able to verbalized the outrage that I and many others have been holding. His proposals are no more extreme than the immigration policies that Nations like Mexico has in place to deny privileges to their illegals. For the Editorial Board to categorize people like me as "Republicans" of "far-right" is offensive and ignorant at best.
52
As a legal immigrant to this country, I have never understood the position of some other legal immigrants such as qcell who are angry at illegal immigrant for breaking the law while they, the "good," law-abiding immigrants, have complied with it. Overall, the legal and illegal immigrant populations are very different, making such comparisons invalid. "Legals" are often comparatively privileged, educated, legally empowered. It takes money and resources to comply with U.S. immigration laws. It often takes privilege to get a shot at a Green Card. That is certainly true for me personally. Illegal immigrants, in contrast, are often oppressed, underprivileged, destitute, and desperately in search of a better life. They are in no position to understand and comply with the byzantine U.S. immigration laws. But they share with the legal immigrants the dream of a better life.
The situations of these two groups are simply not comparable. By and large, our experiences as legal immigrants shed no light on, and have no relevance to, the plight of the millions of unfortunates who are here illegally, who have taken existential risks in search of a better life, and who live with uncertainties that I cannot even imagine.
The situations of these two groups are simply not comparable. By and large, our experiences as legal immigrants shed no light on, and have no relevance to, the plight of the millions of unfortunates who are here illegally, who have taken existential risks in search of a better life, and who live with uncertainties that I cannot even imagine.
98
Thank you Mr. Trump for courageously speaking out some of the problems of USA while other politicians are so busy trying to be political- correct and hoarding votes !!!
USA in general is a nation of law-abiding citizens , and this country is great because it's a nation of laws , so keep out / deter / discourage the illegal immigrants and making immigration orderly, legal , and fair again .....Thank you ., Mr. Trump ,please make America great again domestically and internationally ..
USA in general is a nation of law-abiding citizens , and this country is great because it's a nation of laws , so keep out / deter / discourage the illegal immigrants and making immigration orderly, legal , and fair again .....Thank you ., Mr. Trump ,please make America great again domestically and internationally ..
1
Qcell
Some of us who are Americans by birth are truly offended that Trump would even suggest doing away with citizenship by birth in the United States.
Anybody who would argue against that is trying to overturn laws that have existed here in Massachusetts since 1620, and in each of the English colonies from the day they were first settled.
Maybe you were not aware of that.
Some of us who are Americans by birth are truly offended that Trump would even suggest doing away with citizenship by birth in the United States.
Anybody who would argue against that is trying to overturn laws that have existed here in Massachusetts since 1620, and in each of the English colonies from the day they were first settled.
Maybe you were not aware of that.
2
Maybe Trump should change his backup band. I was thinking Pink Floyd.
1
But what about the prospect of future illegal immigrants?
The Editorial Board is making the same mistake that the Reagan Administration made in 1986. Careful not to use the word “amnesty” the Board suggests measures that would allow current illegal immigrants to stay. They offer no suggestions as to how to stop future illegal immigration.
In 1986, our Government offered amnesty to the then current population of illegal immigrants, while at the same time promising to control the borders and enforce a verification program to that ensure that employers hire only legal workers. Once the amnesty was set in stone, the other two proposals were virtually ignored to the extent that we now have another 11 million illegal immigrants and no prosecutions of employers who hire undocumented workers.
The American public are clearly aware of this. They think the same thing is going to happen again. They can see nothing in the Editorial Board’s proposals nor in the halfhearted ones of the other Republican candidates that would make them think otherwise.
Hence, Trump.
The Editorial Board is making the same mistake that the Reagan Administration made in 1986. Careful not to use the word “amnesty” the Board suggests measures that would allow current illegal immigrants to stay. They offer no suggestions as to how to stop future illegal immigration.
In 1986, our Government offered amnesty to the then current population of illegal immigrants, while at the same time promising to control the borders and enforce a verification program to that ensure that employers hire only legal workers. Once the amnesty was set in stone, the other two proposals were virtually ignored to the extent that we now have another 11 million illegal immigrants and no prosecutions of employers who hire undocumented workers.
The American public are clearly aware of this. They think the same thing is going to happen again. They can see nothing in the Editorial Board’s proposals nor in the halfhearted ones of the other Republican candidates that would make them think otherwise.
Hence, Trump.
2
What always amazes me is how Republicans swear to uphold the Constitution (they even read it complete out loud at the start of a recent legislative session, as if they couldn't think of any other way to waste time), but they're only willing to uphold the parts of the Constitution that suit their prejudices. Cruel and unusual punishment? that's fine and dandy if it means torturing some Ay-rabs and subjecting death penalty inmates to horrendous executions. Birthright citizenship? hey, let's get of that one because we only want the immigrants here we want. I'm convinced that the only part of the Constitution they really love is the 2nd Amendment, and that because thanks to Scalia and the NRA they completely misinterpret it.
4
I know that a lot of Americans do not care much for what us foreigners think about the US. So if we have negative thoughts that just shows our ignorance and stupidity, we are non-Americans after all. I would like to suggest that you ought to care, especially as the world outside of the US is not exactly seeing a nuanced picture of the political debate. The only thing most of us see is the hyperbole, the extremism and the naked hatred for anything alien as expressed by Mr. Trump and the weak-kneed gaggle of Republican candidates. If one adds to that the images of the very noisy social conservatives, the Republican Party image that has emerged is one of fundamental intolerance for anyone who is not male and white. Outside of the US, these are the images that are shaping the views of what the GOP stands for. Any Republican candidate that finally emerges and who may be elected president will be tarred with that brush in the eye of public opinion in the rest of the world. It will not matter much if the candidate will actually be more middle of the road because as the more adult speeches of the more mature, moderate candidates are being drowned out in the US, they are definitely not being heard in the rest of the world. Now if you are going to build a wall around the US to keep the rest of the world out that may not matter. I somehow suspect that life will not be that simple and the brand damage currently being incurred will end up hurting the US more than you might expect.
3
Trumps and the GOPs insane focus on pood immigrants as the source of all our economic woes is a simple boxing move. make the opponent think the threat is from one direction when the other hand comes smashing in. their focus on unions, immigrants, single mothers, etc as the sources of our economic woes shows so clearly that the real threat to our economy and all our general well being is from the 0.1 percenters. the more insistently they point down the economic ladder the more scared we all should be of how close the top of the ladder is to squashing us all.
2
On immigration, what is realistic, practical and doable has been eclipsed by an American public's need for a scapegoat for what has happened to jobs and the economy since the time of Reaganomics. When a person is grounded on the bottom of the economy, waiting for the trickle-down from above, that person is going to be susceptible to the blame game and grasping at straws and listening to any demagoguery that a politician can throw out. This is a historical fact; many nations have faced this before. In the United States, a whole generation of Americans have grown up with the idea that jobs are scarce and pay is bad and thereis an elite class and a very-much lower class, with little opportunity to advance.
It's no wonder to me that immigrants are castigated. It's no wonder that a smart man like Trump can demagogue this, can exploit this for political gain. He has a voice granted by the media that no one else has, and he knows how to use it.
It's no wonder to me that immigrants are castigated. It's no wonder that a smart man like Trump can demagogue this, can exploit this for political gain. He has a voice granted by the media that no one else has, and he knows how to use it.
1
The world has changed and for the worse, since the early days of immigration, when we welcomed the millions from Europe that are us now. Here in this edition, on the front page, you chronicle the mass, almost uncontrollable flight from Africa, fleeing violence, starvation and economic ruin. This is not just a weekend phenomenon. It looks like our right hand is completely ignorant of what the left hand is doing. Trump is using hyperbole to get attention, but there is plenty of real truth there in the insistence that our present immigration policies and lack of border control are hurting the middle-class of our country now and not enough is being done about it. No doubt there is a core of opinion among real citizens- regardless of geographic origin- that understands the need to respond to a changing world with tougher policies. It's a late wake-up call.
1
I have to say that I miss very much Stephen Colbert and Jon Stewart weighing in on this. They would have ignited my smoldering outrage into outright conflagration. Who are we all anyway? My great-grandparents were Scottish and Irish immigrants in the 1880s. They worked in coal mines once they got here. Their work and sweat ultimately put about 100 of us, their descendants, through college and graduate school and here we are comfortable middle-class and contributing mucho dinero to this economy and social net.
1
I am the granddaughter of 4 Polish immigrants who came to this country in 1916, unable to speak a word of English. My grandfathers became naturalized citizens and my grandmothers became naturalized by being the wives of naturalized citizens. I was raised to believe that America was the best country in the world because it accepted immigrants who were willing to work hard and was better for their many contributions. I might add that my dad fought in Europe in WW II, and two of my uncles also served in the Army and Coast Guard during that war. My family dealt with bias and discrimination but loved this country, and the first generation and now the second and third, have all been solid citizens. However, it appears I come from a long line of "losers," according to Donald Trump.
2
Your grandparents all came here legally.
You don't get naturalized by simply being married. Each person, even children, must go through the naturalization process.
You don't get naturalized by simply being married. Each person, even children, must go through the naturalization process.
After Reagan agreed to amnesty in the 80's plus border security---both with Mexico and visa holders who over stay... and the Presidents and Congresses since have refused anything on border security. Not even adding a check in and check out system. The easiest thing in the world would be to record entry and agreed upon leaving dates when someone enters the country. At the expiration time on their visa, a report would be issued, check out or not. If not, Illegal and ordered deported. Simple. Routine. But what do we have: NOTHING.
Mexico is a different problem. For Mexico the US is an overflow system for their job market failures. But in addition, Mexico is now the world's largest drug supplier for the US; their gangs are selling drugs in every major and minor city. They have establisd criminal networks never seen in this country before in such numbers and national level organization.
I have failed to find your editorials deploring these failures, only the many attempts to correct them. Do you really like these failures? Trumps crude way of putting things is offensive. But your silence and therefore support of lawlessness is equally offensive.
Mexico is a different problem. For Mexico the US is an overflow system for their job market failures. But in addition, Mexico is now the world's largest drug supplier for the US; their gangs are selling drugs in every major and minor city. They have establisd criminal networks never seen in this country before in such numbers and national level organization.
I have failed to find your editorials deploring these failures, only the many attempts to correct them. Do you really like these failures? Trumps crude way of putting things is offensive. But your silence and therefore support of lawlessness is equally offensive.
6
For lack of an effective and humane immigration policy all these many years by our elected officials, up pops Trump. Sensing the fears and frustrations of the vast majority of the middle class, Trump espousing the immigration issue as central to all their many problems. Have some in this country forgotten a time in the not to distant past, an individual arose, claiming to his fellow citizens that their problems are the fault of a small minority in their country.
Sadly, when Trump made his initial outbursts on immigration, it caused some confusion to the other GOP candidates as to how to respond. When polls indicated Trumps appeal to a minority of like minded bigots in this country, they quickly began to voice a similar policy on immigration not wanting to offend those bigots. Is this the type of leadership the GOP candidates offer to the voters in this country where courage, wisdom and intelligence are desperately needed. It would certainly be advisable for Democrats to step forward courageously and denounce proposed policies such as these.
Sadly, when Trump made his initial outbursts on immigration, it caused some confusion to the other GOP candidates as to how to respond. When polls indicated Trumps appeal to a minority of like minded bigots in this country, they quickly began to voice a similar policy on immigration not wanting to offend those bigots. Is this the type of leadership the GOP candidates offer to the voters in this country where courage, wisdom and intelligence are desperately needed. It would certainly be advisable for Democrats to step forward courageously and denounce proposed policies such as these.
2
The Republican Party political policy platform rests in anti-immigration by brown Mexicans. McCain wanted to build a fence, increase the size of border patrol and deport more Mexicans. Romney wanted more Mexicans to self-deport.
And although the Republicans have lost the popular vote in 5 out of the last 6 Presidential elections they have won control of both houses of Congress. While winning the White House twice. Trump is merely following his fellow G.0.P. candidates past and present wallowing in the muck. Where they can all find President Barack Obama who has arrested and deported more immigrants than any President, after promising as a candidate to propose and fight for comprehensive immigration reform during his first term.
Because White American birth rates are well below replacement level, but for a significant native and immigrant fecund brown Latino and African American population, America would be facing a significant demographic problem. An aging shrinking nation on the brink of a socioeconomic political educational nightmare.
Legal immigration is too slow, too complicated, too costly and too inconsistent with American values and interests. Until there are enough voters to change that status quo that will be the American moderate middle.
And although the Republicans have lost the popular vote in 5 out of the last 6 Presidential elections they have won control of both houses of Congress. While winning the White House twice. Trump is merely following his fellow G.0.P. candidates past and present wallowing in the muck. Where they can all find President Barack Obama who has arrested and deported more immigrants than any President, after promising as a candidate to propose and fight for comprehensive immigration reform during his first term.
Because White American birth rates are well below replacement level, but for a significant native and immigrant fecund brown Latino and African American population, America would be facing a significant demographic problem. An aging shrinking nation on the brink of a socioeconomic political educational nightmare.
Legal immigration is too slow, too complicated, too costly and too inconsistent with American values and interests. Until there are enough voters to change that status quo that will be the American moderate middle.
1
It is NOT a demographic problem.
Constant growth is the behavior of a cancer. No country can endure with constant population spikes.
Countries in Europe and Japan are also aging, but they do NOT permit massive illegal immigration.
Aging is a problem that solves itself. The next generation comes around, and the population stabilizes -- at a new, lower level that is beneficial to the environment, water resources, etc.
Think about how much better this nation was IN EVERY WAY when we had a population of 150 million -- vs. today, when we are headed fast to 400 million.
Constant growth is the behavior of a cancer. No country can endure with constant population spikes.
Countries in Europe and Japan are also aging, but they do NOT permit massive illegal immigration.
Aging is a problem that solves itself. The next generation comes around, and the population stabilizes -- at a new, lower level that is beneficial to the environment, water resources, etc.
Think about how much better this nation was IN EVERY WAY when we had a population of 150 million -- vs. today, when we are headed fast to 400 million.
Why would children be stateless? European and Asian countries generally grant citizenship only to descendants of citizens (jus sanguinis) but that does mean children born there are stateless. They are citizens of the countries of origins of their parents. In the rare case where such parents have no citizenship, many of those countries, if not all, grant citizenship to their children.
Mr Trump's proposals may be unwise, but so is needless scaremongering, because people will see through it, eventually. The real issue, parsing the language of the amendment and court cases aside, is does America want to be a jus soli country, i.e. if you're born here, you're a citizen, like most New World countries (e.g. Canada, Australia, Chile) or does it want to revert to Old World traditions, and follow jus sanguinis. Countries follow either, or a bit of both, without catastrophe falling upon them. It's more about who they want to be, as a country.
Mr Trump's proposals may be unwise, but so is needless scaremongering, because people will see through it, eventually. The real issue, parsing the language of the amendment and court cases aside, is does America want to be a jus soli country, i.e. if you're born here, you're a citizen, like most New World countries (e.g. Canada, Australia, Chile) or does it want to revert to Old World traditions, and follow jus sanguinis. Countries follow either, or a bit of both, without catastrophe falling upon them. It's more about who they want to be, as a country.
2
Trump would replace the Constitution's guarantee of citizenship by bloodline and pedigree?
Now where have we heard that before in the not so distant past? But in that past, those you were supposed to be of 'inferior' race could not be distinguished by skin tone alone, they had to wear a yellow star.
The whole of the Republican party has turned into bottom feeders of the lowest kind, ones that thrive on hate and racism against the 'Others', one plays to the lowest common denominator of a low information and low education base telling them that these 'Others' are a severe threat to the nation as a whole and a threat to their supposed superiority by race alone.
Welcome to the fascist party of America, and it indeed wraps itself in the flag and carries a cross, as Sinclair Lewis predicted in an interview when coming back from Europe in the mid 1930s.
Now where have we heard that before in the not so distant past? But in that past, those you were supposed to be of 'inferior' race could not be distinguished by skin tone alone, they had to wear a yellow star.
The whole of the Republican party has turned into bottom feeders of the lowest kind, ones that thrive on hate and racism against the 'Others', one plays to the lowest common denominator of a low information and low education base telling them that these 'Others' are a severe threat to the nation as a whole and a threat to their supposed superiority by race alone.
Welcome to the fascist party of America, and it indeed wraps itself in the flag and carries a cross, as Sinclair Lewis predicted in an interview when coming back from Europe in the mid 1930s.
5
Sarah, better make sure your papers are in order and your bags are packed....if Trump is elected, all bets are off!
Donald Trump expostulates outrageous judgments and policies and fabricated facts, yet the media are increasingly giving serious consideration to his statements because it "speaks to what people want to hear". It is good to read the Time editorial board dismantling so many of Trump's assertions. Some have said that Trump's proposals are impractical; I want to hear them say that they are based on false assertions and totally immoral.
Indeed, Trump does get a lot of people fired up with hatred; hatred of their government, hatred of the "illegals", hatred of regulation, hatred of Russia, China, Mexico, hatred of Obamacare (and Obama), ... Too many pundits seem to give legitimacy to "people's concerns". They seem to forget that Hitler used exactly the same tactics to appeal to Germans' concerns in the 30's and got elected as a result.. There was nothing legitimate then and there is none to-day in Trump's speeches.
Indeed, Trump does get a lot of people fired up with hatred; hatred of their government, hatred of the "illegals", hatred of regulation, hatred of Russia, China, Mexico, hatred of Obamacare (and Obama), ... Too many pundits seem to give legitimacy to "people's concerns". They seem to forget that Hitler used exactly the same tactics to appeal to Germans' concerns in the 30's and got elected as a result.. There was nothing legitimate then and there is none to-day in Trump's speeches.
3
We need a comprehensive investigation of the circumstances under which The Donald's forebears entered the United States. Were they victims of political oppression -- or were they just seeking a better life? How long did they have to wait for approval to immigrate -- or did they just hop on the first boat available and arrive on our shores without pre-arranged gainful employment? As "The Trumpet" has blared, the US Constitution should not be read (as lawyers less knowledgeable than him have done) to bestow citizenship on the children (and presumably other descendants) of those deemed "illegal" immigrants. We've seen US citizens who turned out to be Nazi war criminals stripped of their status and returned to Europe for prosecution. Perhaps Trump's Scottish ancestors may have had a role in the mistreatment of indigenous Irish or some other nefarious deeds that need to be exposed. Yes, Trump the Self-Righteous Accuser may turn out to be Trump the Anchor Baby.
Donald Trump's dad was an NYC real estate entrepreneur, as far as I know.
If he was not a US citizen, I think it would have come out by now.
I am reasonably certain that Trump was born to two US citizen parents, making your allegations nonsense.
If he was not a US citizen, I think it would have come out by now.
I am reasonably certain that Trump was born to two US citizen parents, making your allegations nonsense.
California would cease to function without it's work force from Mexico and Central and South America. I don't understand what the problem is. These workers clean my house, maintain my yard, fix my roof, my plumbing. The list goes on.
They work hard. Are very punctual, and do their jobs conscientiously . They have keys to my house and access to my property and I have had zero complaints, personally. They are good parents, and good people.
I work extensively in Latin America, and really enjoy the Latin American culture. The people are really warm, generous, and family oriented. I don't understand Mr Trump's position, other than exploiting xenophobia for political gain.
They work hard. Are very punctual, and do their jobs conscientiously . They have keys to my house and access to my property and I have had zero complaints, personally. They are good parents, and good people.
I work extensively in Latin America, and really enjoy the Latin American culture. The people are really warm, generous, and family oriented. I don't understand Mr Trump's position, other than exploiting xenophobia for political gain.
6
LOL -- so you abuse illegal aliens to get work done around your house more cheaply, and in the process, you ensure that American workers are not hired nor paid.
Funny, I'll bet you ALSO claim to support a $15 an hour minimum wage! while studiously avoiding paying even $7.25 an hour to the illegals you EXPLOIT.
That is correct. LOOK IN THE MIRROR. You are exploiting illegal aliens.
Funny, I'll bet you ALSO claim to support a $15 an hour minimum wage! while studiously avoiding paying even $7.25 an hour to the illegals you EXPLOIT.
That is correct. LOOK IN THE MIRROR. You are exploiting illegal aliens.
1
And you DON"T pay the going wages. That, bothers you! You are exploiting them while raking in tons of money creating ugly designed monsters while staying within AIA regulations!!Some nerve!!!
1
You're defending an economy based on exploitation wages, and anyone who disagrees with you is a xenophobe?
Trump has created a fascinating pivot point for the other candidates by stating this position in such an unvarnished fashion.
The ones who have the savvy to go against the grain here will be the only ones who have a shred of a chance to win the general election.
Of the currently plausible candidates, that leaves Kasich and Bush, which leaves Kasich. Bush is done.
Christie must have the worst handlers in history to not take this opportunity to distance himself from the insanity of this position.
If, by some miracle, he is able to extricate himself from "Bridgegate", he could conceivably reignite his chances by being seen as a leader who doesn't just follow the worst impulses of his party.
Then again, what could one expect from somebody so petty and stupid as to preside over something as heinous and absurd as "Bridgegate".
The ones who have the savvy to go against the grain here will be the only ones who have a shred of a chance to win the general election.
Of the currently plausible candidates, that leaves Kasich and Bush, which leaves Kasich. Bush is done.
Christie must have the worst handlers in history to not take this opportunity to distance himself from the insanity of this position.
If, by some miracle, he is able to extricate himself from "Bridgegate", he could conceivably reignite his chances by being seen as a leader who doesn't just follow the worst impulses of his party.
Then again, what could one expect from somebody so petty and stupid as to preside over something as heinous and absurd as "Bridgegate".
3
Trump is removing the pretence of decency from a large segment of the Republican base revealing them for the racists that they are.
The only difference between Trump and the others here is that the others use code words and phrases to appeal to this base and Trump is direct and honest.
The real problem is with this very politically active, but inherently racists, segment of the Republican base. The problem with the Republican candidates is that none of them are above appealling to this part of the base.
The only difference between Trump and the others here is that the others use code words and phrases to appeal to this base and Trump is direct and honest.
The real problem is with this very politically active, but inherently racists, segment of the Republican base. The problem with the Republican candidates is that none of them are above appealling to this part of the base.
114
You can't be a racist against some of your own race.
"Hispanic" (or Latino) IS NOT A RACE. It is a language and a culture.
HIspanics/latinos can be of any race -- native indian, white, black, mixed, etc.
They however self-identify as "white".
I guess you are telling them to shut up, and accept being "brown", even though they believe they are white.....because it fits the lefty liberal narrative of "poor brown skinned people" and white racism.
"Hispanic" (or Latino) IS NOT A RACE. It is a language and a culture.
HIspanics/latinos can be of any race -- native indian, white, black, mixed, etc.
They however self-identify as "white".
I guess you are telling them to shut up, and accept being "brown", even though they believe they are white.....because it fits the lefty liberal narrative of "poor brown skinned people" and white racism.
Well, yes but Trump may just get this country to properly deal with the problem instead of half measures and skating round the subject. I am not advocating wholesale return of illegals but the introduction of a proper system - which we do not have.
One has to wonder, is Donald Trump just an agent for the far left posing as a realistic candidate for the extremists we suspect the party itself is made of? The party is clearly in search of an identity having aligned itself with religious zealots simply to win an election in 1980. Ronald Reagan for his faults or triumphs, was aghast at extremists of any sort. He wouldn't recognize his party. Trump is clever enough to simply be playing a role, infiltrate and expose, and the whacky candidates the Republican party can't seem to shed, fall for the bait every time. If he is serious, I'd say deport Trump and his trophy wife (can she speak?), for a decent hardworking Mexican family which is all I see whenever I've met Mexicans. Mexico has an incredibly rich culture, the most beautiful culture of all the Latino countries in my opinion. I want more Mexicans and fewer arrogant, unfeeling, greedy Americans. That will make America great again.
1
How can a problem be solved when there might not be a solution? When those who govern the country refuse to or cannot compromise or will not listen to the other side's point of view, where is there supposed to be a reasonable solution found?
The problem of illegals is so old in this country there is no starting date one can finger. We have had our share of xenophobia over Asians, Irish, Italians and more. Over time, we seem to have absorbed them into the general culture and society is the better for it.
We allowed poor needy Mexicans to come into our country to do the dirty jobs that crop picking actually is --- hard unrelenting labor in weather that turns skin into burnt bacon color. Then we insist that when they finish the work they trot peacefully back to wherever they came from until we need them again. Why should they not share in the wealth and the decent life that allows citizens to live because their work makes what we buy in stores cheap and the houses they build nice to live in?
Neither party, Democratic or Republican, knows what to do about the illegals that are here, nor what to do about how to deal with the legal issues that they present. Both parties have ideas and some of them aren't bad, but to listen to men like Trump is to destroy any chance of being able to come to a reasonable working solution which requires more than hate-filled choices which are not and never will be able to be enacted because they have great flaws.
The problem of illegals is so old in this country there is no starting date one can finger. We have had our share of xenophobia over Asians, Irish, Italians and more. Over time, we seem to have absorbed them into the general culture and society is the better for it.
We allowed poor needy Mexicans to come into our country to do the dirty jobs that crop picking actually is --- hard unrelenting labor in weather that turns skin into burnt bacon color. Then we insist that when they finish the work they trot peacefully back to wherever they came from until we need them again. Why should they not share in the wealth and the decent life that allows citizens to live because their work makes what we buy in stores cheap and the houses they build nice to live in?
Neither party, Democratic or Republican, knows what to do about the illegals that are here, nor what to do about how to deal with the legal issues that they present. Both parties have ideas and some of them aren't bad, but to listen to men like Trump is to destroy any chance of being able to come to a reasonable working solution which requires more than hate-filled choices which are not and never will be able to be enacted because they have great flaws.
If I may be allowed to expand on what irdac (below), writing from Britain, summarized, and what I intended to say in a pretty tight nutshell.
The vast majority of the people Trump and the Republican party want to expel, and force to build the wall to keep them expelled, are the descendants of people who settled this hemisphere and this continent well over 10,000 years ago.
Notice I used the word "settled." Europeans considered this place unsettled, a "wilderness," for the simple and idiotic reason that they were just now getting here. Native American tribes had for hundreds of years maintained stable communities, engaged in agriculture, trade, and, yes, war (more accurately described as skirmishes rather than war) with neighboring tribes.
It was the white man who introduced the concept of war as a means to annihilate one's opponent.
The European "settlers" at Jamestown, it is now conjectured, abandoned their encampment and willingly assimilated into the much more stable and, keep this in mind, "democratic" community of the original inhabitants.
It is arguable that the Plymouth colony would not have survived without the assistance of the "Indians" whose tribe they later exterminated. The European invaders, the ancestors of every Republican candidate except for Rubio (Cruz's mother is non-native), methodically raped, murdered, and forcefully displace a civilization much more "civilized" than they themselves were, or are.
Trump is the culmination of European Egotism.
The vast majority of the people Trump and the Republican party want to expel, and force to build the wall to keep them expelled, are the descendants of people who settled this hemisphere and this continent well over 10,000 years ago.
Notice I used the word "settled." Europeans considered this place unsettled, a "wilderness," for the simple and idiotic reason that they were just now getting here. Native American tribes had for hundreds of years maintained stable communities, engaged in agriculture, trade, and, yes, war (more accurately described as skirmishes rather than war) with neighboring tribes.
It was the white man who introduced the concept of war as a means to annihilate one's opponent.
The European "settlers" at Jamestown, it is now conjectured, abandoned their encampment and willingly assimilated into the much more stable and, keep this in mind, "democratic" community of the original inhabitants.
It is arguable that the Plymouth colony would not have survived without the assistance of the "Indians" whose tribe they later exterminated. The European invaders, the ancestors of every Republican candidate except for Rubio (Cruz's mother is non-native), methodically raped, murdered, and forcefully displace a civilization much more "civilized" than they themselves were, or are.
Trump is the culmination of European Egotism.
I am firmly in favor of dear Mr. Trump continuing to shoot his mouth off. He has personally made sure that the Republicans have absolutely no chance to win the next election.
The antics of this lamentable excuse of a political party would indeed be laughable, if it were not costing this country dearly in terms of economy, social security and international stature. After a long time we have a President that actually speaks sense, and the drooling imbeciles in the republican party make sure that their outrageous utterances drown every voice of reason there is.
This shrill medley of bizarre utterances that emanates from the collective larynx of this now morally and ethically bankrupt party makes me cringe; and now, incredibly, in the bottom half in the 21st century, we are still besieged with the xenophobic, racist and sexist attitudes that I thought had long since died out of civilization.
Keep on keeping on, dear Mr Trump. Everyone is here in this universe for a purpose, and I'm sure my Goddess Chaos will make sure you fulfill yours...
The antics of this lamentable excuse of a political party would indeed be laughable, if it were not costing this country dearly in terms of economy, social security and international stature. After a long time we have a President that actually speaks sense, and the drooling imbeciles in the republican party make sure that their outrageous utterances drown every voice of reason there is.
This shrill medley of bizarre utterances that emanates from the collective larynx of this now morally and ethically bankrupt party makes me cringe; and now, incredibly, in the bottom half in the 21st century, we are still besieged with the xenophobic, racist and sexist attitudes that I thought had long since died out of civilization.
Keep on keeping on, dear Mr Trump. Everyone is here in this universe for a purpose, and I'm sure my Goddess Chaos will make sure you fulfill yours...
1
The issue of birth right citizenship is not a "right guaranteed in the constitution", but a debatably over reaching interpretation of the 14th amendment.
Trying to decide what to do with all the immigrants to the US, ignores the reason people come to the US and the EU, from the less developed countries of the world: extreme poverty and the prospects for a better life.
A world economy built on destruction of the environment and depleting of the world's resources and biological diversity, is likely to keep this problem front and center, by forcing people to compete over fewer and fewer resources.
We need to solve this problem at its source.
Trying to decide what to do with all the immigrants to the US, ignores the reason people come to the US and the EU, from the less developed countries of the world: extreme poverty and the prospects for a better life.
A world economy built on destruction of the environment and depleting of the world's resources and biological diversity, is likely to keep this problem front and center, by forcing people to compete over fewer and fewer resources.
We need to solve this problem at its source.
1
It is true that Trump's remarks take the low road in as much as most illegal immigrants are not criminals (apart from having broken the immigration laws).
But the Times takes an unrealistic PC road.
We need someone who can respect the undocumented immigrants as human beings, which they are, and yet also insist that our laws be enforced. A US citizen who is not a rapist or a murderer and contributes to the economy still does not have the right to defy the law, e.g. by speeding or by not filing her income tax return. It is a mystery why the Times thinks that undocumented immigrants have rights to break the law which US citizens are not granted. I assume you are aware that illegal immigration into Mexico is a felony under Mexican law?
For obvious pragmatic reasons, Republicans cannot allow a massive path to citizenship simply because it also means a massive infusion of votes to the Democrats. But they could go along with some sort of legal status for a large portion of the immigrants who are still here.
As for building a wall, putting employers into the dock for hiring illegal immigrants might be a more effective way.
But the Times takes an unrealistic PC road.
We need someone who can respect the undocumented immigrants as human beings, which they are, and yet also insist that our laws be enforced. A US citizen who is not a rapist or a murderer and contributes to the economy still does not have the right to defy the law, e.g. by speeding or by not filing her income tax return. It is a mystery why the Times thinks that undocumented immigrants have rights to break the law which US citizens are not granted. I assume you are aware that illegal immigration into Mexico is a felony under Mexican law?
For obvious pragmatic reasons, Republicans cannot allow a massive path to citizenship simply because it also means a massive infusion of votes to the Democrats. But they could go along with some sort of legal status for a large portion of the immigrants who are still here.
As for building a wall, putting employers into the dock for hiring illegal immigrants might be a more effective way.
Illegal immigration and its consequences are very complicated issues for which there are no easy solutions.
For starters, undocumented people are not here legally, hence the frequently used appellation "illegal immigrant." Also, while illegals are often willing to accept work that is often eschewed by domestic workers, their illegal status makes them easy targets for exploitation. The shear size of the illegal workforce and its willingness to work for lower wages than most domestic workers, presents a significant drag on domestic wages at the low end of the scale. Because illegals do not have any status, they often choose not to assimilate, which will lead to further troubles down the road as we have to cope with "foreign cities" within our US cities. Illegals often complain that they are being treated like second class citizens, but the reality is, they are not citizens at all and have no valid claim to citizenship under current law.
On the plus side, we are a nation of immigrants. Virtually everything we have accomplished as a nation has been done by descendants of immigrants and immigrants themselves. The influx of new ideas and new and different ways of looking at things that immigrants often bring has enriched us.
Unfortunately, today's immigrants often lack the qualities of the earlier immigrants that helped make us great. We have, to a very large degree, become a dumping ground. We need to have better immigration policies and closed borders until then.
For starters, undocumented people are not here legally, hence the frequently used appellation "illegal immigrant." Also, while illegals are often willing to accept work that is often eschewed by domestic workers, their illegal status makes them easy targets for exploitation. The shear size of the illegal workforce and its willingness to work for lower wages than most domestic workers, presents a significant drag on domestic wages at the low end of the scale. Because illegals do not have any status, they often choose not to assimilate, which will lead to further troubles down the road as we have to cope with "foreign cities" within our US cities. Illegals often complain that they are being treated like second class citizens, but the reality is, they are not citizens at all and have no valid claim to citizenship under current law.
On the plus side, we are a nation of immigrants. Virtually everything we have accomplished as a nation has been done by descendants of immigrants and immigrants themselves. The influx of new ideas and new and different ways of looking at things that immigrants often bring has enriched us.
Unfortunately, today's immigrants often lack the qualities of the earlier immigrants that helped make us great. We have, to a very large degree, become a dumping ground. We need to have better immigration policies and closed borders until then.
I very much doubt that percentage-wise, previous generations of immigrant were as superior as you would like to think. Most of them were poor laborers or farmers (which is why the left their country of origin in the first place) just like the current immigrants, who came here to work hard.
Criminal elements were part of any of these groups (e.g. Mafia, Irish Mob).
Or are you really saying that the current immigrants lack the qualities, because they are Hispanic?
Criminal elements were part of any of these groups (e.g. Mafia, Irish Mob).
Or are you really saying that the current immigrants lack the qualities, because they are Hispanic?
Let me say this as clearly and simple as possible: an increase in illegal and legal immigrants does not represent America's interest. Legal and illegal immigrants compete for limited jobs; for limited housing; for limited clean air and water, for limited health care; for a limited electricity grid and natural gas pipeline system; for limited sewages and sanitation; for limited police and fire protection, for a limited national park system; for limited private and public services for the blind, deaf, disabled, elderly, etc. and for many other fixed factor public and private resources such as roads, bridges, airports, harbors, museums, schools; etc. We live in a world of scarcity folks, and whether we like it or not, more for them means less for us.
The upshot of all of this is that the US standard of living for poor and lower middle class Americans has plunged. Our children can only dream of having the things that we and our parents largely took for granted. We are truly headed for a new world order of a small select group of a privileged few (NY Times Editorial board being among them) and a vast culturally remote diaspora of dispossessed nameless people who live on the margin of existence.
Much of the third world has always been this way, but America was different. Now I’m supposed to believe that America should be systematically reduced to a similar state for the greater good of humanity. Says who?
The upshot of all of this is that the US standard of living for poor and lower middle class Americans has plunged. Our children can only dream of having the things that we and our parents largely took for granted. We are truly headed for a new world order of a small select group of a privileged few (NY Times Editorial board being among them) and a vast culturally remote diaspora of dispossessed nameless people who live on the margin of existence.
Much of the third world has always been this way, but America was different. Now I’m supposed to believe that America should be systematically reduced to a similar state for the greater good of humanity. Says who?
1
The lack of leadership by the present candidates is not surprising. It simply illustrates the point they want to 'be a president', not act as a president should. Our political congregation from both sides is weak on policy/action, but strong on bluster. We keep speaking about how bad government is. We have forgotten, due to our own absentee landlord behavior that the government is our government. As Snoopy said, 'we have seen the enemy....'.
Trump is the match to the fuel of frustration most of Americans feel. A wildfire or sanctimonious rhetoric is not what we need. We need to take responsibility for the government. Its too easy to blame 'the government'. Its a quick fix, like the second Iraqi invasion where we were supposed to be great as heroes!
Our government is broken. It doesn't work, because of the people who run it for us. I don't believe Trump represents the majority of America, just those who are willing to engage at this point in the freak show that much of the media supports and sustains. But if the majority doesn't act there will come a point when the constant pummeling of the truth begins to whither away our true values.
Trump is the match to the fuel of frustration most of Americans feel. A wildfire or sanctimonious rhetoric is not what we need. We need to take responsibility for the government. Its too easy to blame 'the government'. Its a quick fix, like the second Iraqi invasion where we were supposed to be great as heroes!
Our government is broken. It doesn't work, because of the people who run it for us. I don't believe Trump represents the majority of America, just those who are willing to engage at this point in the freak show that much of the media supports and sustains. But if the majority doesn't act there will come a point when the constant pummeling of the truth begins to whither away our true values.
As geneticists have demonstrated quite clearly, most Mexicans entering the US today are closely related genetically to the earliest Americans, the "Indians" who migrated into the US from Asia during the past 20,000 years.
From that perspective Mexican migrants are returning to lands (the US) their ancestors had explored and lived upon for many millennia. They were here first, in other words. Thus, we have a chance to atone in a small way for the horrors European settlers visited upon "aboriginal Americans in the US.
I doubt, however, that that simplistic-thinking and low-information politicians like Donald Trump care about ancient injustices and cultural histories. The rest of us, though, may both welcome Mexicans into the US on the grounds that they do much of the work that we refuse to do, and they also have some "right" to live in areas their ancestors were the first to occupy.
From that perspective Mexican migrants are returning to lands (the US) their ancestors had explored and lived upon for many millennia. They were here first, in other words. Thus, we have a chance to atone in a small way for the horrors European settlers visited upon "aboriginal Americans in the US.
I doubt, however, that that simplistic-thinking and low-information politicians like Donald Trump care about ancient injustices and cultural histories. The rest of us, though, may both welcome Mexicans into the US on the grounds that they do much of the work that we refuse to do, and they also have some "right" to live in areas their ancestors were the first to occupy.
Here we go again. The 11 million people here illegally, each of whom broke into this country, should obviously be sent home. Since when is basic law enforcement controversial? Birthright citizenship was an accident, an abuse of a provision meant to deal with freed slaves. Do most civilized countries have it? Of course not, because it encourages illegal immigration. Why should someone be a citizen if their parents stuck them into this country? They too can go home. And a border wall makes perfect sense. The cost will be offset by the schooling, healthcare and other costs that will save by not having to support illegals - even if the costs are not offset, the cost of law enforcement is a legitimate expenditure that I fully support. I don't like Trump, but his immigration plan seems like common sense to me.
2
Even if you could magically get rid of all the illegal immigrants, the costs saved are minimal, as a lot of them do pay taxes. Certainly it would not be the billions needed for the enforcement you are looking for.
It's likely that far more people share Trump's harsh opinions towards illegal immigration than polls indicate. There have been studies in the past that show people will give a more politically correct answer to certain questions than reflects their true feelings.
Pollsters do use various formulas to correct for this known tendency, but given how major polls in the UK, Israel, Scotland, and the United States have been wrong recently, the question has to raised as to whether modern polling is becoming inherently unreliable.
Probably the single biggest factor affecting the reliability of polling data is that the primary technique of land-based telephone questionnaires reflects an ever shrinking part of the population. Persons who continue to have land line phones tend to be older and / or live in areas with poor cell phone signal strength.
If, as I suspect, Trump's bellicosity towards illegal immigration reflects the opinions of more people than polls indicate, we may indeed see efforts to end birthright citizenship and some kind of verification system to lock the undocumented out of the economy.
Pollsters do use various formulas to correct for this known tendency, but given how major polls in the UK, Israel, Scotland, and the United States have been wrong recently, the question has to raised as to whether modern polling is becoming inherently unreliable.
Probably the single biggest factor affecting the reliability of polling data is that the primary technique of land-based telephone questionnaires reflects an ever shrinking part of the population. Persons who continue to have land line phones tend to be older and / or live in areas with poor cell phone signal strength.
If, as I suspect, Trump's bellicosity towards illegal immigration reflects the opinions of more people than polls indicate, we may indeed see efforts to end birthright citizenship and some kind of verification system to lock the undocumented out of the economy.
When Kennedy and then Johnson resumed the civilization of America after the brief reactionary McCarthy delusion, Republicans were confronted with Civil Rights, voter rights, Medicare, and the war on poverty. Instead of trying to whittle out a rational capitalism, Republicans started their long march to the abyss. They inaugurated the racist "Southern Strategy", defeated the Equal Rights Amendment, and capitalized on the Communist threat specifically casting Democrats as the failure in Cuba (instead of Eisenhower who was in office when Castro took over) and Viet Nam. For a period of time they succeeded in exploiting blue collar racists, stay at home moms and misogynist men, equated unions and safety net programs with communism. Then they rode the OPEC (largely a big oil, Seven Sister creation) economic engineered instability to elect St. Reagan who followed a script of irrational quasi religious, anti-commie jargon that continues to percolate. Bush I and II gave us fraudulent wars, terror, fear and free floating anxiety coupled with indistinct hatred. The economic collapse that always follows unregulated capitalism they were confronted by a Black President. What could they do? Quiet racism became overt. Attacks on women, the poor, the elderly, and immigrants have become their last hope. Trump is the champion who can rally the hateful ignorant or greedy to the polls. Only money permits them to breathe. The "dung of Satan" face the abyss. Hope Trump gets to meet the Pope.
Some information might help clarify this situation. An estimated 85 % of illegal aliens have been in the country for 7 or more years. In 2000 the number of illegal aliens in the US was estimated at 8.5 million. What this illustrates is the fact that this is not some recent influx or any kind of significant increase or flood of illegals. To hear Trump and his ilk one would think people were streaming over the border in droves. It is simply not the case. The issue is much more about incorporating more fully and legally a large population of people who have made this their home for a long time. The nativist tone of this whole ugly issue is quite alarming. We are a nation of immigrants, most came here when it was little more than a matter of finding the means to get here, register on Ellis Island and come ashore. Now we are ready to round up millions of people and throw them out? Build a giant wall around us?
60% of people from other countries coming here are doing so legally, through visas, but over staying their visa expirations, so building a wall costing billions is even more crazy, but feeds the conservative masses the red meat they desire. However, as a lib democrat I have to say that on this item I have to agree with the right. The people coming here legally or otherwise have found a loophole, and that's the 14th amendment. Come here on a visa, and have a child, now who's going to take care of that new american citizen? The parent of course. There are businesses in China which cater to Chinese women wanting to take a "vacation" in the US with the intent of having their babies here. Taking to primary physician friends in clinics here they say they are asked by immigrant women quite often about fertility treatment, and the women are quite honest about the fact that they want to have a baby in the US. I'm all for pathways to citizenship, and feel we could absorb more citizens from other countries even now. However, to use this loophole is simply gaming our system for ones benefit rather than going through the same steps thousands of others do, the legal process, is wrong, and this loophole should be adjusted.
While some might bring up discrimination, Dred Scot/ 3/5s etc... this is only about making people who come here follow the legal path, and has nothing to do with past grievances. We should simply adopt the same policies as many European countries do.
While some might bring up discrimination, Dred Scot/ 3/5s etc... this is only about making people who come here follow the legal path, and has nothing to do with past grievances. We should simply adopt the same policies as many European countries do.
Republicans could have put the immigration issue behind them if they had worked with President Obama.
The Editorial board keeps pushing for the legalization of the 10 to 15 millions illegals living in this country without telling us where the money to take care of them will come from.
99% of these undocumented immigrants will certainly qualify for subsidies under Obamacare and other Federal and States help for low incomes families.
The arrival of the new workforce in the marketplace will also put pressure on low wages jobs, pushing more Americans into poverty.
America is a country of different ethnicities , origins and English is what bind all of US. Will English language be required as a condition for legalization? Very few undocumented speak English.
Mr Trump might not be using the right words to address this issue, but it shouldn't just be about legalization, this is more complicated than the Times wants us to believe.
The Editorial board keeps pushing for the legalization of the 10 to 15 millions illegals living in this country without telling us where the money to take care of them will come from.
99% of these undocumented immigrants will certainly qualify for subsidies under Obamacare and other Federal and States help for low incomes families.
The arrival of the new workforce in the marketplace will also put pressure on low wages jobs, pushing more Americans into poverty.
America is a country of different ethnicities , origins and English is what bind all of US. Will English language be required as a condition for legalization? Very few undocumented speak English.
Mr Trump might not be using the right words to address this issue, but it shouldn't just be about legalization, this is more complicated than the Times wants us to believe.
2
Trump has latched onto the #1 underground issue, simmering for some time now, with the electorate for a great variety of reasons.
Can there be any other reason for the fact that he currently leads in the polls. (Suggestions are certainly welcome.)
This issue crosses all political, economic, and social lines.
The world cauldron of disorder as it relates to the movement of human beings throughout the world is a central issue of the time.
Thus one of the most important issues, we as a country have to consider today, is that of immigration per se.
Now we refer to it solely as a "reform" matter or issue, which actually leaves a definition of the problem of "immigration" up for grabs.
"Reform" how and in what way is far from clear and no well defined objective or outcome is clearly explained or put forward in any meaningful way by any entity.
At the risk of being viewed as politically incorrect, I conclude that for the most part the great majority of us have come to the following mostly unexpressed conclusion and/or opinion.
Further immigration into this country must come to an end - in spite of the lamp lifted "beside the golden door", traditionally and rightly so in times past.
Therein is the broad theme and today's necessary strategic goal.
The tactical details well be many and varied, but they can no longer be ignored.
For to do so, given world events in a steadily shrinking world, will be at our own great disadvantage, if not at a peril as yet clearly undefined.
Can there be any other reason for the fact that he currently leads in the polls. (Suggestions are certainly welcome.)
This issue crosses all political, economic, and social lines.
The world cauldron of disorder as it relates to the movement of human beings throughout the world is a central issue of the time.
Thus one of the most important issues, we as a country have to consider today, is that of immigration per se.
Now we refer to it solely as a "reform" matter or issue, which actually leaves a definition of the problem of "immigration" up for grabs.
"Reform" how and in what way is far from clear and no well defined objective or outcome is clearly explained or put forward in any meaningful way by any entity.
At the risk of being viewed as politically incorrect, I conclude that for the most part the great majority of us have come to the following mostly unexpressed conclusion and/or opinion.
Further immigration into this country must come to an end - in spite of the lamp lifted "beside the golden door", traditionally and rightly so in times past.
Therein is the broad theme and today's necessary strategic goal.
The tactical details well be many and varied, but they can no longer be ignored.
For to do so, given world events in a steadily shrinking world, will be at our own great disadvantage, if not at a peril as yet clearly undefined.
2
Donald Trump having taken over and turned the Republican primary into a race to the bottom on nearly every value that has earned America worldwide reputation as immigrant-friendly, it is simply mind-boggling that so much ink has been spilled of late in predicting the imminent collapse of the Clinton campaign because of the largely bogus email-servergate, when, in comparison to the Trump-derailed GOP primary, Hillary: a) is still leading every candidate, Dem or GOP, in the polls; b) has more money than maybe all her Dem opponents combined; c) is the only candidate running who may have the ability to reassemble Obama's winning coalition; and d) is the establishment candidate, which means that virtually every superdelegate will back her, ensuring that she can't lose the Dem nomination. Moreover, all these doomsday predictions are being made and the Clinton campaign's obits being written before a single vote has been cast! If a candidate has the resources and tenacity to go the distance and has previously demonstrated that she can, it is Hillary!
Therefore, if there is a wake to be held, it should be on the Republican primary, where a number of once-promising candidates are in danger of collapsing under the Donald's juggernaut. Who will be Trump's first casualty? That's what the pundits should be pontificating about and not about the highly unlikely collapse of Hillary's campaign!
Therefore, if there is a wake to be held, it should be on the Republican primary, where a number of once-promising candidates are in danger of collapsing under the Donald's juggernaut. Who will be Trump's first casualty? That's what the pundits should be pontificating about and not about the highly unlikely collapse of Hillary's campaign!
1
The mere fact that the rest of the GOP bunch is following Trump on this issue shows that none of them are a.) capable of leadership and b.) capable of independent thought or principals. Are those really the qualities we are looking for in a president? None of them - not even all of them rolled together - have the capability or temperament for the job.
Bernie may not have a position on immigration out yet. There is so much to cover, and he has laid out his principles from which one can extrapolate that he would be humane in any case. He is so clearly on the side of humanity. His passion comes from a lifetime of study, involvement and positive actions that are all coherent and constant in values. Moreover, not only does he not take money from corporations or billionaires, he does not sully himself or his opponents with smear campaigns or personal attacks. He is that rarest of beings, a politician of character and principles.
The GOP field, just characters and not in a nice way. Principles? What's that?
Bernie may not have a position on immigration out yet. There is so much to cover, and he has laid out his principles from which one can extrapolate that he would be humane in any case. He is so clearly on the side of humanity. His passion comes from a lifetime of study, involvement and positive actions that are all coherent and constant in values. Moreover, not only does he not take money from corporations or billionaires, he does not sully himself or his opponents with smear campaigns or personal attacks. He is that rarest of beings, a politician of character and principles.
The GOP field, just characters and not in a nice way. Principles? What's that?
1
When will someone put the blame on where, IMO, it really is, the Republican base? The presidential bottom feeders are pandering to an uneducated, ill-informed group who are susceptible to scare tactics (ignorant people scare easily). They know they can rely on their supporters' inchoate, knee jerk reaction to any number of wedge issues; the candidates play them like a virtuoso plays an instrument.
The party of the rich does not mention the economic drain corporations and oligarchs (their handlers) place on us when they hide their obscene profits in off-shore accounts to avoid paying their fair share of taxes, instead, Republicans deflect the issue by blaming immigrants for an economic drain. Yes, there is a problem, but can we solve it intelligently instead of, yet again, venal, money hungry men and women shouting that the sky is falling and telling the clucking Chicken Littles that only they can solve their problems?
Any intelligent person can see through the sham, yet enough voters hold a whole country back by supporting a party bankrupt of any rational, creative, ideas (or willfully ignore them) to solve the problems for the average American. Yet, the GOP, make sure the corporations and oligarchs, their most important constituents, are taken care of.
The party of the rich does not mention the economic drain corporations and oligarchs (their handlers) place on us when they hide their obscene profits in off-shore accounts to avoid paying their fair share of taxes, instead, Republicans deflect the issue by blaming immigrants for an economic drain. Yes, there is a problem, but can we solve it intelligently instead of, yet again, venal, money hungry men and women shouting that the sky is falling and telling the clucking Chicken Littles that only they can solve their problems?
Any intelligent person can see through the sham, yet enough voters hold a whole country back by supporting a party bankrupt of any rational, creative, ideas (or willfully ignore them) to solve the problems for the average American. Yet, the GOP, make sure the corporations and oligarchs, their most important constituents, are taken care of.
2
LOL! and you do not REALIZE that the NYT Editorial Board is playing YOU like a violin?
"Weep...weep for the poor brown skinned people's of the world!" (all while hiring them for sub-minimum wages, to clean your apartments and nanny your children, and cut your suburban lawns).
"Weep...weep for the poor brown skinned people's of the world!" (all while hiring them for sub-minimum wages, to clean your apartments and nanny your children, and cut your suburban lawns).
Samuel Johnson who gave us his dictionary of the English language was reputed to have said of Edmund Burke "Patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels." Hollywood has given us scoundrels who are mischievous, benign and endearing. Johnson's scoundrels were the lowest form of humanity stirring up our worst instincts and causing pain and destruction where ever they went. Mr Trump is not a FOX scoundrel he is Shakespeare's fool.
Burke is the philosophical cornerstone of today's GOP, he is much beloved by the intellectual right and men such as David Brooks. Mr Trump has placed on the table the discussion we should be having and has shown us a mirror.
Mr Trump's mirror balances the forces of xenophobia and those who believe in open borders. Mr Trump is the only voice that is open to debate and therefore is an easy target because there is really no easy answer.
We are in very interesting times and my wife will give her political donations to Bernie Sanders and to whoever is the eventual Democratic nominee. My wife however is educated in science and would be more interested in seeing the two scenarios being discussed and what is the likely outcome.
Where is it that America wants to go? Will America for Americans be better than an America that belongs to the world? It is decision time.
Unlike the rest of the GOP, Trump is willing to look at what the debate is really all about and the dark dismal picture he paints of the "other" outlines the debate in a space others dare not enter.
Burke is the philosophical cornerstone of today's GOP, he is much beloved by the intellectual right and men such as David Brooks. Mr Trump has placed on the table the discussion we should be having and has shown us a mirror.
Mr Trump's mirror balances the forces of xenophobia and those who believe in open borders. Mr Trump is the only voice that is open to debate and therefore is an easy target because there is really no easy answer.
We are in very interesting times and my wife will give her political donations to Bernie Sanders and to whoever is the eventual Democratic nominee. My wife however is educated in science and would be more interested in seeing the two scenarios being discussed and what is the likely outcome.
Where is it that America wants to go? Will America for Americans be better than an America that belongs to the world? It is decision time.
Unlike the rest of the GOP, Trump is willing to look at what the debate is really all about and the dark dismal picture he paints of the "other" outlines the debate in a space others dare not enter.
1
Well, you are pontificating from Canada -- which has strict borders and strict immigration laws. Heck, I am not sure that YOU could even get landed status today! Canada is very choosy!
Note that Canada has virtually NO poor latinos, preferring educated wealthy Asians and Middle Easterners as immigrants.
So in short: you get to keep out illegals, but we Americans have to take them all in. Yeah, that seems "fair".
NOT.
Note that Canada has virtually NO poor latinos, preferring educated wealthy Asians and Middle Easterners as immigrants.
So in short: you get to keep out illegals, but we Americans have to take them all in. Yeah, that seems "fair".
NOT.
As a Black man, a millennial in Washington DC, I find this fascinating.
My parents didn't even like each other when the Civil Rights Movement was happening in America, but as an attorney with a degree in American History, what we are witnessing with Donald Trump resembles the classic American social movements that changed our nation for the better.
The establishment (i.e. the corporate news media/political parties) clearly want Donald Trump out of the 2016 race. But in a grassroots swell of support, the American people want Trump to stay.
Illegal immigration is a profitable commodity for the establishment. The news media gets a new demographic to advertise to, the liberal establishment gets new voters (who aren't citizens, but I digress) and the GOP establishment gets favors from corporations who hire illegals to cut costs and maximize profits. So this is a win-win for them.
The American people are fed up. Any sane, decent person realizes that allowing the law to be broken, is at the very least unfair to those of us who obey the law and at worse an abdication of Constitutional duty as a public official.
I understand the personal stories, so do millions of Americans. But if personal hardship and family issues don't allow ordinary Americans to rob banks, drive drunk, attack innocent people or avoid paying taxes, then violating federal law on entering the United States should not be allowed either.
It's common sense. Trump has seized on this, and he's winning for it.
My parents didn't even like each other when the Civil Rights Movement was happening in America, but as an attorney with a degree in American History, what we are witnessing with Donald Trump resembles the classic American social movements that changed our nation for the better.
The establishment (i.e. the corporate news media/political parties) clearly want Donald Trump out of the 2016 race. But in a grassroots swell of support, the American people want Trump to stay.
Illegal immigration is a profitable commodity for the establishment. The news media gets a new demographic to advertise to, the liberal establishment gets new voters (who aren't citizens, but I digress) and the GOP establishment gets favors from corporations who hire illegals to cut costs and maximize profits. So this is a win-win for them.
The American people are fed up. Any sane, decent person realizes that allowing the law to be broken, is at the very least unfair to those of us who obey the law and at worse an abdication of Constitutional duty as a public official.
I understand the personal stories, so do millions of Americans. But if personal hardship and family issues don't allow ordinary Americans to rob banks, drive drunk, attack innocent people or avoid paying taxes, then violating federal law on entering the United States should not be allowed either.
It's common sense. Trump has seized on this, and he's winning for it.
78
I am an American and I am fed up with politicians scapegoating immigrants and I am ashamed of the people who support Trump's immigration ideas. Who do we deport next? Or who do we scapegoat next?
Your argument is specious, to wit: most undocumented immigrants do NOT rob banks, drive drunk, or attack innocent people. These are cynical false equivalents. Statistically they are LESS likely than citizens to participate in these activities as they fear getting caught. To infer they do is insulting to millions of honest folk - no less insulting than Mr. Trump's remarks. Most undocumented immigrants however, DO pay taxes.
I acknowledge these points, however, which seem central to all your posts:
- you are an attorney
- you have a degree in American History
- you live in Washington, DC
If you sincerely believe these qualify as bona fides for adding weight to your positions, try pulling them out next time you argue a speeding ticket in Maryland or Virginia.
I acknowledge these points, however, which seem central to all your posts:
- you are an attorney
- you have a degree in American History
- you live in Washington, DC
If you sincerely believe these qualify as bona fides for adding weight to your positions, try pulling them out next time you argue a speeding ticket in Maryland or Virginia.
Couldn't agree more and well-put - hardly surprising, given your occupation.
1
As a twenty-two year-old woman from Colombia, my wife came to this country earnestly eager to assimilate into a culture she greatly admired. For her, this was a land of promise for the hard working, looking for opportunities and equal justice under the law. She believes in the mythical American Dream and its offer of a level playing field, where merit not birthright, is the determining factor in one's success.
She attended a local college at night to learn English while working the day shift at a convenience store. From there, she continued her advancement throughout the years, eventually becoming a successful businesswoman and educator.
She and I are grateful to live in this country and people who know my wife are grateful to her for the values she brought with her from Colombia. Immigrants bring a new prospective in our melting pot of cultures. It's what makes America exceptional.
These calls for keeping the immigrants out is just a rehash of what The No Nothing Party of the 19th century was saying to my Irish ancestors. We ignored them as we should with the calls we're hearing today.
A call that doesn't "appeal to our better angels" as Lincoln would have it, but to fear and small mindedness. My wife and I still believe in the America of inclusiveness .
She attended a local college at night to learn English while working the day shift at a convenience store. From there, she continued her advancement throughout the years, eventually becoming a successful businesswoman and educator.
She and I are grateful to live in this country and people who know my wife are grateful to her for the values she brought with her from Colombia. Immigrants bring a new prospective in our melting pot of cultures. It's what makes America exceptional.
These calls for keeping the immigrants out is just a rehash of what The No Nothing Party of the 19th century was saying to my Irish ancestors. We ignored them as we should with the calls we're hearing today.
A call that doesn't "appeal to our better angels" as Lincoln would have it, but to fear and small mindedness. My wife and I still believe in the America of inclusiveness .
217
Your wife was presumably a legal immigrant.
Not the same thing as an illegal immigrant, no matter how many people want to equate the two.
Not the same thing as an illegal immigrant, no matter how many people want to equate the two.
First: face it: the quadrennial primp-and-pose is a mirror. What you see is what is we've got: visceral ignorance being catered to by amoral -- and worse, much, much worse -- panderers offering "cookie, little voter?" in return for ego mania.
How did we come to this pass?
By being what we really are as a nation: morally bankrupt.
How do we get out of this morass?
Guts, a willingness to tell the truth no matter the cost to one's personal ambitions. Never to waver in the face of masturbatory self-gratification and grandstanding.
Tell the truth: we're off the road and in the ditch. Now, get out of the damn car and get your hands dirty, and put one foot in front of the other with your eyes not on the mud but on the highway home.
How did we come to this pass?
By being what we really are as a nation: morally bankrupt.
How do we get out of this morass?
Guts, a willingness to tell the truth no matter the cost to one's personal ambitions. Never to waver in the face of masturbatory self-gratification and grandstanding.
Tell the truth: we're off the road and in the ditch. Now, get out of the damn car and get your hands dirty, and put one foot in front of the other with your eyes not on the mud but on the highway home.
So now we really see it. This is what it takes to truly pander to the heart of the GOP base. This is how far down a pol has to go to win the primary for the leader of the free world--the win secured by xenophobic, homophobic, ill-informed, low-information, racist, bigoted, working-against-their own-interests voters. This small slice of the American electorate is now in charge of the topics featured on every news cast, the front page of the NYT, and every other outlet out there giving voice to the political platform they salivate for and crave made manifest by by Donald Trump. The host of other GOP now predictably racing to the bottom with him.
We really do have Mr. Trump to thank for finally stripping the GOP bare to its core and showing us the totality of the kind of country we would be living in under their rule. Don’t like the 14th amendment? Just get rid of it. Love the fetus, leave the child in despair. Bombing is answer to everything worldwide, and let’s allow guns absolutely everywhere. It is a dystopia beyond my wildest imaginings. You can’t make this stuff up, but I wish we were.
We really do have Mr. Trump to thank for finally stripping the GOP bare to its core and showing us the totality of the kind of country we would be living in under their rule. Don’t like the 14th amendment? Just get rid of it. Love the fetus, leave the child in despair. Bombing is answer to everything worldwide, and let’s allow guns absolutely everywhere. It is a dystopia beyond my wildest imaginings. You can’t make this stuff up, but I wish we were.
365
We should uphold our laws or simply get rid of them. Having laws and not holding to them is weak.
A vote for Mr. Trump is really a referendum on political correctness. People wished they can say the exact same things he does, but they don't, because they will lose their jobs...yes, lose their jobs. These days, you make a politically incorrect statement on your Facebook page about some social issue, you could lose your job. How did we even get to this point? A person's livelihood can be in jeopardy if they merely expressed an opinion. Most of these victims of PC speech are conservatives. People are just tired of walking on egg shells with their speech. He is giving voice to the voiceless, once he starts sounding "Presidential" (PC speak), he will lose ground with the electorate. He knows that. We all self censor to be PC and are not truthful to ourselves. What comes out of his mouth is the truth as he sees it. It may not be refreshingly honest, possibly brutally honest, but you know he is truthful and believes what he says. Whether you agree with his positions are not, you know he told it the way he sees it and people can respect that.
The great benefit of telling the truth is that you don't need to remember what you said the last time. If you hear what he is saying now, it is no different that what he said in 1988 on Oprah. Literally, word for word, his position on trade and foreign policy is the same. He is consistent, you have to give him credit for that.
See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEPs17_AkTI
The great benefit of telling the truth is that you don't need to remember what you said the last time. If you hear what he is saying now, it is no different that what he said in 1988 on Oprah. Literally, word for word, his position on trade and foreign policy is the same. He is consistent, you have to give him credit for that.
See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEPs17_AkTI
The republicans were already at the bottom with regard to immigration. It's hard to believe they could go even lower but then they've been going lower and lower since Reagan. Popping out in China might give them pause.
5
Xenophobia is the direct path to authoritarianism, and the editorial's point, the normalization of extremism so well captures the mindset of the Republican candidates. But are Democrats any better? Perhaps on immigration, but not foreign policy in general, Hillary the war hawk matched by Bernie, down-the-line on intervention and market expansion.
The political situation is dismal, to say the least. With Trump an emerging favorite, can one honestly distinguish between the candidates and the electorate who resoundingly support them? The American people have lost all moral anchorage. This is not the country and people we were at the time of FDR and the New Deal.
The political situation is dismal, to say the least. With Trump an emerging favorite, can one honestly distinguish between the candidates and the electorate who resoundingly support them? The American people have lost all moral anchorage. This is not the country and people we were at the time of FDR and the New Deal.
19
Presently Sanders is the most honest candidate. The principles on his website are fair and logical. Like Trump, he is not dependent on money from rich individuals and corporations, so he too follows his principles. But unlike Trump, he has not completely revealed his position on immigration. He is definitely sympathetic to the plight of poor laborers, but he has not argued for a plan that is best for Americans.
20
why are you mixing in the plight of poor laborers with the issue of illegal immigration? most American's are very supportive of legal immigration. we should be very concerned about the plight of those people who came here properly and work in low income jobs, as well as the American-born U.S. citizens in the same situation. 11 million people illegally entering into the country and staying is a completely different problem. we either have to have the guts to say that our borders are open to anyone who can get here and change the laws, or enforce the laws and return people to their homes. there is not an option to obey the laws selectively and just ignore the ones we don't like.
Unfortunately, in this case, The Times is correct, the GOP seems to be going full-on nativist following the Trump challenge. Which is silly because that which he is proposing is unlikely to work. Illegal immigration is far too complicated for building a wall to do much.
That being said, it reflects a deep anger in the Republican base with politicians on both sides of the aisle assisting in crippling policy in favor of what in effect is open borders. GOP voters are tired of their leaders mouthing the right platitudes, then selling out to the business interests that want more cheap labor in country, in which process the left so heavily contributes with sanctuary cities and open border clamoring of its own.
It seems a truism that our immigration system is broken. But that has little to do with law. It is broken because strong bipartisan elements within our elites want it broken and so collaborate in making sure the law does not get enforced. And the GOP base is sick of being lied to and told to simply do as they are told.
Which has led to the virulent backlash The Times notes, which backlash the policies pushed by The Times have done much to provoke. And unfortunately, such anger is driving more reasonable voices from the public square, as mainstream GOP voices are being shouted down on conservative sights, any reluctance to sign on to the populist bandwagon being interpreted as being the normal sellout RINO. Highly unfortunate.
That being said, it reflects a deep anger in the Republican base with politicians on both sides of the aisle assisting in crippling policy in favor of what in effect is open borders. GOP voters are tired of their leaders mouthing the right platitudes, then selling out to the business interests that want more cheap labor in country, in which process the left so heavily contributes with sanctuary cities and open border clamoring of its own.
It seems a truism that our immigration system is broken. But that has little to do with law. It is broken because strong bipartisan elements within our elites want it broken and so collaborate in making sure the law does not get enforced. And the GOP base is sick of being lied to and told to simply do as they are told.
Which has led to the virulent backlash The Times notes, which backlash the policies pushed by The Times have done much to provoke. And unfortunately, such anger is driving more reasonable voices from the public square, as mainstream GOP voices are being shouted down on conservative sights, any reluctance to sign on to the populist bandwagon being interpreted as being the normal sellout RINO. Highly unfortunate.
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Both sides of the aisle? Really? There is no pox on both houses here. This is straight up Republican lunacy and racism.
Let me explain something to you. When one says something like "The policies pushed by The Times". You have said nothing of substance. Please tell us what those policies are and why they are wrong. Otherwise you are just talking and saying nothing.
"It seems a truism that our immigration system is broken." Tell me how it's broken. We have had laws for a long time but why are they not enforced? Very simple; enforce existing laws.
The party of WASPs feel threatened by the possibility that very soon Anglos will be a minority in the US. More births are registered to Latinos than any other ethnic group in the US. It will not take long fro even very rural Republican districts start shifting. Texas is very quickly becoming a "toss up" state, fro example.
So, for the GOP, make Latinos look bad; very bad. Categorize them all as being here illegally. This is part of their plan of voter ID laws and gerrymandering to hang onto power.
The sad part of this, none of the GOP candidates have come forward to say that what Donald Trump has said it totally wrong. And all have taken the xenophobia approach. At this point, the GOP will not get the Latino vote, except for those few, like Rubio and Cruz, who are part of the 1%.
So, for the GOP, make Latinos look bad; very bad. Categorize them all as being here illegally. This is part of their plan of voter ID laws and gerrymandering to hang onto power.
The sad part of this, none of the GOP candidates have come forward to say that what Donald Trump has said it totally wrong. And all have taken the xenophobia approach. At this point, the GOP will not get the Latino vote, except for those few, like Rubio and Cruz, who are part of the 1%.
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According to the U.S. Census Bureau, non-Hispanic whites, or Anglos, will make up 43.6 percent of the population in 2060 while Hispanics will make up 28.6 percent. However, intermarriage between Anglos and Hispanics is so common that it is doubtful we will still distinguish between Anglos and Hispanics by mid-century. Most Hispanic Americans are white. The bureau projects that whites will make up 74.3 percent of the population in 2060, down from 77.7 percent in 2010 due to an increase in the Asian population. See Table 2. (Population by Race and Hispanic Origin: 2014 and 2060) on page nine of the Census Bureau report at http://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2015/demo/...
It all started when the Irish were not thrown into Boston harbor in the late 1700's like the East India Tea Company's tea was thrown in the harbor years before.
I personally do not want to live in any Latin country. Why would you want to transform America into one? Does Guatemala look like a good model to you?
1
Republicans criticize the birthright citizenship right contained in the 14th Amendment and in the process threaten the citizenship of many Americans.
In threatening the citizenship of so many Americans, an obvious conclusion is this new birtherism is a political power play by the Republicans a la the three-fifths clause in the Constitution of the United States. That clause was designed to give power to the slave states of America in order to preserve the immoral, inhuman and Godless institution of American slavery.
This blatant, grab for power by Republicans is on further display in the Texas redistricting case, Evenwel v. Abbott. This redistricting case seeks to limit who can be counted to establish legislative and congressional districts. The plaintiffs, in a kind of reverse three-fifth clause action, is attempting to limit district determination to counting only eligible voters versus the current law of counting everyone. I imagine the fathers of American slavery, if they were alive today, would be cheering this modern day move to institutionalize racism.
The Supreme Court of the United States has agreed to hear this case. For more on Evenwel v. Abbott, go here: http://tinyurl.com/one-citizen-no-vote
and here: http://tinyurl.com/democracy-in-reverse .
In threatening the citizenship of so many Americans, an obvious conclusion is this new birtherism is a political power play by the Republicans a la the three-fifths clause in the Constitution of the United States. That clause was designed to give power to the slave states of America in order to preserve the immoral, inhuman and Godless institution of American slavery.
This blatant, grab for power by Republicans is on further display in the Texas redistricting case, Evenwel v. Abbott. This redistricting case seeks to limit who can be counted to establish legislative and congressional districts. The plaintiffs, in a kind of reverse three-fifth clause action, is attempting to limit district determination to counting only eligible voters versus the current law of counting everyone. I imagine the fathers of American slavery, if they were alive today, would be cheering this modern day move to institutionalize racism.
The Supreme Court of the United States has agreed to hear this case. For more on Evenwel v. Abbott, go here: http://tinyurl.com/one-citizen-no-vote
and here: http://tinyurl.com/democracy-in-reverse .
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Neither a Supreme court ruling affecting the 14th Amendment's citizenship clause nor an amendment to the citizenship clause would be retroactive. So, no one's citizenship would be threatened.
The plaintiffs in Evenwel v. Abbott have asked the court to clarify that only citizens should be counted for purposes of drawing legislative districts. Why do you think we should count foreign nationals who are not U.S. citizens? Do you think we should count foreign tourists? Foreign nationals are supposed to have no influence on U.S. election. They can't vote and the Federal Election Campaign Act prohibits foreign nationals from contributing, donating or spending funds, either directly or indirectly, in any U.S. election.
The plaintiffs in Evenwel v. Abbott have asked the court to clarify that only citizens should be counted for purposes of drawing legislative districts. Why do you think we should count foreign nationals who are not U.S. citizens? Do you think we should count foreign tourists? Foreign nationals are supposed to have no influence on U.S. election. They can't vote and the Federal Election Campaign Act prohibits foreign nationals from contributing, donating or spending funds, either directly or indirectly, in any U.S. election.
The United States, from its inception, has used total population -- be they non-citizen slaves, non-voting women or non-landowning men -- to determine legislative/congressional districts. In drawing legislative/congressional districts, non-citizens have always been considered in the population used to determine such districts.
Counting non-citizen slaves to maintain power for the slave-holding plutocrats of the South was what the three-fifth clause in the Constitution was about. Without counting non-citizen slaves, the South would not have had the power in Congress to block abolition of the inhumane institution of slavery.
The objective of the plaintiffs in Evenwel v. Abbott is equivalent to the what was the objective of the proponents of the three-fifth clause, power for the Southern aristocracy.
Counting non-citizen slaves to maintain power for the slave-holding plutocrats of the South was what the three-fifth clause in the Constitution was about. Without counting non-citizen slaves, the South would not have had the power in Congress to block abolition of the inhumane institution of slavery.
The objective of the plaintiffs in Evenwel v. Abbott is equivalent to the what was the objective of the proponents of the three-fifth clause, power for the Southern aristocracy.
1
Really you need to learn to read. First of all the 1th amendment does NOT specify "birthright citizenship" - it states "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States. Illegals were not born here under the jurisdiction of the US. And has long ago been interpreted by the courts that way. So you think it means someone can just run across the border and have a baby and it becomes a citizen?
GOP candidates are not changing their positions. This is what they always were.
Trump just says out loud and proud what they said by code words and dog whistle comments. Trump is just stealing their thunder by doing them one better.
They knew they had to be ashamed of what they were doing, and keep a fig leaf of denial in place. Trump just tossed aside their fig leaf.
They've been outed. That isn't the same as forcing them to change.
Trump just says out loud and proud what they said by code words and dog whistle comments. Trump is just stealing their thunder by doing them one better.
They knew they had to be ashamed of what they were doing, and keep a fig leaf of denial in place. Trump just tossed aside their fig leaf.
They've been outed. That isn't the same as forcing them to change.
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Mark as more than a consistent commentator.... your remarks are always the same Democrats good everyone else bad....no analysis, no facts just blah
I only tell it like it is.
I'll remind you that I like Ike, and I don't like Hillary. I do think about these things.
There is just no thoughtful, intelligent defense for the positions of those in the clown bus. That is just how it is.
I'll remind you that I like Ike, and I don't like Hillary. I do think about these things.
There is just no thoughtful, intelligent defense for the positions of those in the clown bus. That is just how it is.
There wasn't far to go.
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The GOP deserve to have Trump as their standard bearer. For the last couple of decades they have been dumbing down public discourse where it it is okay now for the Trumps of this world to get away with so much silliness. Go GOP, you've earned it.
1
Who is going to stand up to this guy? Who is going to take him out? His Republican counterparts are afraid of him. Editorialists simply go thru the motions with no call to action. Trump's ideas are monstrous. Where is the groundswell against his hateful, bizarre speech? Over and over again he screams his outright lies. His poll numbers show he is riling up a significant number of voters, appealing to their basest instinctcs. Horrifying.
1
In no place in this Editorial did I see the word "illegal."
If you can't get the facts straight, and now you've even dropped the pretense of using the prior dishonest wording of "undocumented" and "unauthorized" perhaps you shouldn't write anything at all.
This is the WORST example of how biased this paper is, and how poorly you are able to make a simple argument for their case, by conflating illegal immigration with legal immigration. Are you that desperate?
If you can't get the facts straight, and now you've even dropped the pretense of using the prior dishonest wording of "undocumented" and "unauthorized" perhaps you shouldn't write anything at all.
This is the WORST example of how biased this paper is, and how poorly you are able to make a simple argument for their case, by conflating illegal immigration with legal immigration. Are you that desperate?
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This is exactly what Trump is aiming for. Everybody knows that "illegal" and "undocumented" refers to the same group of people. Insistence on calling them "illegal" is to deliberately criminalize that group. Having overstayed a visa or crossed a border avoiding a border patrol does not automatically convert you into a criminal ready to steal, rape or murder. Most are decent human beings that are searching for better opportunities for their families. The US cannot afford to let all those desperate to improve their lives into the country and thus must control the flow of immigrants but it has to be done humanely and acknowledging that we are dealing with people, not cattle.
28
In response to minh z: People born in this country (including Bobby Jindal), under any circumstances, are not illegal, nor have they ever been in the history of the U.S., but Trump and others are seeking to redefine citizenship. Trump's xenophobic ideas are much broader than solely addressing illegal immigration. Somewhere in his plan he needs to include disassembling the Statue of Liberty. (That thing is French, anyhow.)
Really? You don't have to be Einstein to know what the editorial is about.......a resounding DUH to you....
1
Are the other feckless GOP candidates so cowed by Trump's bombastic pronouncements they can't call a spade a spade? Is the mainstream press so entertained by his spectacle that they either don't see the darker side to all this or choose to dismiss it? His wanting to make the country great again, to cleanse it of undesirables at whatever the cost to human suffering, his xenophobic appeal to our worst instincts, Trump should remind us of Adolph Hitler.
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Well said from that safe enclave of diversity that is Pound Ridge, NY. In actuality Trump has raised an issue about "anchor" babies that has not been resolved in the courts. I don't really understand why the term anchor baby is used. There is nothing in the law preventing the INS from deporting the parents who are here illegally. Even if you accept the premise the child is a US citizen, their parents are still their legal guardians and the parents have a choice to find a home for the child in the US or take their child with them when they leave. The parents, not the government, are making the choice to separate their family members.
1
Well said (written).
'Innocent Americans-in-waiting'?
It seems to me that if you are resident in a country and not in compliance with that country's immigration laws, you're not so innocent.
Neither, of course, is the nation that enacted Simpson-Mazzoli in 1986 and then promptly never enforced it, promises about 'comprehensive immigration reform' notwithstanding. Sound familiar?
The danger here is not people from elsewhere who want to live in America. Rather, it is a government that fails to enforce its own laws and breaks its own promises.
Add that to a laundry list of social and economic disruptions carried along by a torrent of technology and ever-increasing income disparity and there you have it, a stage set for a Donald Trump.
Phrases like 'innocent Americans-in-waiting' are no more helpful than Donald Trump's demagoguery.
It seems to me that if you are resident in a country and not in compliance with that country's immigration laws, you're not so innocent.
Neither, of course, is the nation that enacted Simpson-Mazzoli in 1986 and then promptly never enforced it, promises about 'comprehensive immigration reform' notwithstanding. Sound familiar?
The danger here is not people from elsewhere who want to live in America. Rather, it is a government that fails to enforce its own laws and breaks its own promises.
Add that to a laundry list of social and economic disruptions carried along by a torrent of technology and ever-increasing income disparity and there you have it, a stage set for a Donald Trump.
Phrases like 'innocent Americans-in-waiting' are no more helpful than Donald Trump's demagoguery.
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The innocent Americans in waiting are Children yes? Children born in the United States that are protected by the 14th Amendment.
How about having everyone who discusses immigration on this page post his or her genealogy back to the first immigrants on these shores? I'm sick of listening to third- or fourth-generation Ellis Islanders try to slam the golden door behind them. Unless you are pure-blooded Native American, please shut up.
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Times change. An immigration policy that might have made sense a hundred years ago doesn't necessarily work in today's world. So I personally get frustrated with the argument that because we allowed in millions of immigrants in the 19th and 20th centuries we are therefore obligated to continue to allow in millions today. I think it's a lousy argument. It is also a fact that our government has tolerated the influx of millions of illegal immigrants, which Ellis Islanders were not, and this has created a host of problems which our politicians refuse to solve.
1
You put eloquently what I was thinking.How do you become a citizen of an artificial boundary on the plant Earth?
You are born within that boundary like Native Americans or you are the descendant of an immigrant from another artificial boundary.
Maybe we should start over and have the Native Americans as Americans and everyone else in the United States apply for citizenship.
You are born within that boundary like Native Americans or you are the descendant of an immigrant from another artificial boundary.
Maybe we should start over and have the Native Americans as Americans and everyone else in the United States apply for citizenship.
If someone's ancestors came through Ellis island, that means they came here LEGALLY.
This distinction evidently is lost on you and the NYTimes.
It's not lost to Americans however.
This distinction evidently is lost on you and the NYTimes.
It's not lost to Americans however.
1
You dont need to repeal the 14th amendment to end birthright citizenship to children of illegal aliens. All you need is an act of Congress, if you have the votes.
In 1993 Harry Reid, of all people, introduced a bill that would have clarified the scope of the 14th amendments "Citizenship Clause".
Harry Reid speaking to Congress about birthright citizenship:
"“If making it easy to be an illegal alien isn’t enough, how about offering a reward for being an illegal immigrant? No sane country would do that, right? Guess again. If you break our laws by entering this country without permission and give birth to a child, we reward that child with US citizenship and guarantee a full access to all public and social services this society provides, and that’s a lot of services. Is it any wonder that two-thirds of the babies born at taxpayer expense in county-run hospitals in Los Angeles are born to illegal alien mothers?” -
Yes, it can be done, without a repeal, or a Constitutional Convention.
In 1993 Harry Reid, of all people, introduced a bill that would have clarified the scope of the 14th amendments "Citizenship Clause".
Harry Reid speaking to Congress about birthright citizenship:
"“If making it easy to be an illegal alien isn’t enough, how about offering a reward for being an illegal immigrant? No sane country would do that, right? Guess again. If you break our laws by entering this country without permission and give birth to a child, we reward that child with US citizenship and guarantee a full access to all public and social services this society provides, and that’s a lot of services. Is it any wonder that two-thirds of the babies born at taxpayer expense in county-run hospitals in Los Angeles are born to illegal alien mothers?” -
Yes, it can be done, without a repeal, or a Constitutional Convention.
68
Congress cannot "clarify the scope" of rights under the Constitution in order to eliminate them. Only the Supreme Court can do that.
It has been. It hasn't gotten to this one yet.
It has been. It hasn't gotten to this one yet.
8
Or a US version of the Nuremberg laws.
Read:
United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898)
Then come back and we'll discuss it.
United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898)
Then come back and we'll discuss it.
1
Once again, none of the candidates addresses the real problem. Illegal immigration exists in huge numbers because there is a huge demand for it. If any of the Republicans (or Democrats for that matter) were willing to put the kind of resources that Trump's plan requires into dealing with the demand side, something might get accomplished. Crack down on the employers of the illegal workers, jail the big bosses of agribusiness that employs millions of illegal farm workers, and let the wages for these jobs rise to a level that will induce Americans to take them. Of course that will then raise the price of food, and that might be a problem, but at least it will be a different problem.
Until then, everything is for show. So naturally, the biggest showman will win. It is a miracle Trump isn't reviving Herman Cain's silly ideas about electrified fences with moats patrolled by alligators.
Until then, everything is for show. So naturally, the biggest showman will win. It is a miracle Trump isn't reviving Herman Cain's silly ideas about electrified fences with moats patrolled by alligators.
60
It will come as a surprise to you, I'm sure, but many, many illegal immigrants work on the books and their employers' files will pass audit. Why? Because illegal immigrants use forged Social Security cards as good as yours and a perjured I-9. That is all current law requires.
We need mandatory eVerify. Some Red States have passed laws to require its use. Some Blue states, like Illinois and California, have passed laws forbidding mandatory use of eVerify.
We need mandatory eVerify. Some Red States have passed laws to require its use. Some Blue states, like Illinois and California, have passed laws forbidding mandatory use of eVerify.
The unspoken truth is Americans all enjoy the fruits of illegal immigrant labor
Well said. The problem with that is there is no one for these clowns to hate.
The scariest thing about the Trump rabbit hole isn't the fact that the 16 or so candidates are so blatantly feckless as to echo his bigoted, xenophobic statements, but the fact that so many people in this country really think this way.
Hasn't this country always been a nation of immigrants. some more "wanted" than others, but still an infusion of fresh energy, spirit, and gratitude for finding a country whose motto is freedom and justice for all?
To so freely discard this spirit, this culture in a cloud of venom and vindictiveness means closing the door on American values. The same people inflaming the immigration debate are those holding up legislation in Congress. We wouldn't be having this ugly, noisy speechifying were it not for the fact the US has done NOTHING on overhauling our broken immigration system for decades.
The response of Trump and the entire GOP can be summed up as follows: "not in my back yard." Every policy proposal, every wild statement from anyone--Dr. Carson should be ashamed of himself for his drone talk-- is based on a view of immigrants as takers not givers, as invaders not freedom seekers, as criminals not people seeking to better their lives.
Mr. Trump's campaign slogan does contain one element of truth, although his target is off. Making " America Great Again" can't be based on turning our backs to our origins but championing the original values that make us great to begin with.
Hasn't this country always been a nation of immigrants. some more "wanted" than others, but still an infusion of fresh energy, spirit, and gratitude for finding a country whose motto is freedom and justice for all?
To so freely discard this spirit, this culture in a cloud of venom and vindictiveness means closing the door on American values. The same people inflaming the immigration debate are those holding up legislation in Congress. We wouldn't be having this ugly, noisy speechifying were it not for the fact the US has done NOTHING on overhauling our broken immigration system for decades.
The response of Trump and the entire GOP can be summed up as follows: "not in my back yard." Every policy proposal, every wild statement from anyone--Dr. Carson should be ashamed of himself for his drone talk-- is based on a view of immigrants as takers not givers, as invaders not freedom seekers, as criminals not people seeking to better their lives.
Mr. Trump's campaign slogan does contain one element of truth, although his target is off. Making " America Great Again" can't be based on turning our backs to our origins but championing the original values that make us great to begin with.
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Closing the door on American values? Reading of all the GOP positions and the approval rating for Trump, the only American value is the almighty dollar and idolatry of the super-rich. In politics with the rabid Donald and entertainment with the Kardashian clan.....the Trump fan club doesn't even ask for or argue for job creation just resents "those people" having any work.
Please explain to me how the legal immigration process is "broken." It certainly doesn't seem broken for the many thousands of folks who come to America legally each and every year.
When you conflate legal and illegal immigration the way you have here, you do a disservice to the issue. Citing, correctly, all of the attributes and benefits of immigrants to America does not for a moment justify entering this country illegally.
This is not a matter of arbitrarily deciding who is more or less "wanted" as a new American. It is about following the rules and not entering your new home via a criminal act. I believe it is perfectly consistent with American values to demand that new Americans not make their entry to America via an illegal act, but rather in a lawful manner. We are a nation of immigrants who came here through legal channels. New immigrants should do the same and they will find America a land of opportunity for those with a strong work ethic and a good value system.
When you conflate legal and illegal immigration the way you have here, you do a disservice to the issue. Citing, correctly, all of the attributes and benefits of immigrants to America does not for a moment justify entering this country illegally.
This is not a matter of arbitrarily deciding who is more or less "wanted" as a new American. It is about following the rules and not entering your new home via a criminal act. I believe it is perfectly consistent with American values to demand that new Americans not make their entry to America via an illegal act, but rather in a lawful manner. We are a nation of immigrants who came here through legal channels. New immigrants should do the same and they will find America a land of opportunity for those with a strong work ethic and a good value system.
No this this country hasn't always been a nation of immigrants. But it has always been a nation of Americans.
Of course, most of Trump's suggestions are ridiculous, but I do think some thought should be given to the birth right citizenship issue. Why should someone who is here illegally have their children automatically become citizens? Other countries do not operate that way. I do not advocate revoking existing citizenship, but that does not mean the policy could or should not be changed going forward.
58
It's a constitutional guarantee
Revoking birthright citizenship will exponentially increase the numbers of "illegal immigrants" in the U.S. and worsen what is already a grave humanitarian crisis. Birthright citizenship acknowledges the fact that the place where you are born shapes your character, your perspective, everything about your life. If someone is born here, and raised here, I have no problem calling them a fellow American.
Who was ahead in the polls in August, 2011? Don't know, don't care, didn't matter then and the who's the leader of the Clown Car now means even less.
The media today does not understand the wall of T V and internet ads that are about to hit us. 100 years ago, the European Generals did not understand what the machine gun was capable of doing, like the media doesn't realize what is going to hit us and the neurons in the frontal lobes of our brains are about to be mowed down like the Durham Light Infantry.
Both Parties are dedicated to more oil wars and more dependence on the fossil fuels that are controlled by the 1% and are choking us to death.
The media today does not understand the wall of T V and internet ads that are about to hit us. 100 years ago, the European Generals did not understand what the machine gun was capable of doing, like the media doesn't realize what is going to hit us and the neurons in the frontal lobes of our brains are about to be mowed down like the Durham Light Infantry.
Both Parties are dedicated to more oil wars and more dependence on the fossil fuels that are controlled by the 1% and are choking us to death.
29
Populists and demagogues are rife everywhere fueling the fire of rage and discontent, so determined to create political havoc in such a shocking way to produce terror and confusion hard to mend afterwards. Trump is definitely playing with fire steering the Country toward a doctrine already experimented in the past with dire and unforeseen consequences. How not to forget what Bush, Rumsfeld and Cheney devised, effectively trying to change the path the world was taking in implementing such an all-traumatic event like a war billed "Shock and Awe"? They were playing God and in their deeply sick minds thought they would win. They did not. Trump's doing the same; he's playing God. Not a pretty picture for the future; sanity will be restored before everything goes downhill.
15
One word in your editorial summed up the GOP; feckless. It captures the essence of what they have become and leaves nothing wanting. Thank you.
28
Trump supports legal immigration, but he has a problem is with illegal immigration. We are dealing with millions of unskilled workers crossing the border. The American people are waking up to the fact that these folks are not cheap because they are receiving benefits from the social safety net. The supporters of illegal immigration have not produced the numbers, because if they did, the costs will surely outweigh the benefits. I am in favor of a guest worker visa program, but liberals want to grant them US citizenship under amnesty. Why? It's really about votes.
36
Actually, most government assistance--food stamps, Medicaid, etc.--requires a valid social security number to receive benefits. Let's not forget that that's what ss numbers were invented for. Very few illegal immigrants are receiving help from the social safety net.
However, a surprising number are paying taxes! A recent internal report from the Social Security administration found that illegal workers had paid $13 billion into SSI funds, while receiving only $1 billion in benefits, since most are not eligible: http://www.socialsecurity.gov/oact/NOTES/pdf_notes/note151.pdf
See also: http://itep.org/itep_reports/2015/04/undocumented-immigrants-state-local...
However, a surprising number are paying taxes! A recent internal report from the Social Security administration found that illegal workers had paid $13 billion into SSI funds, while receiving only $1 billion in benefits, since most are not eligible: http://www.socialsecurity.gov/oact/NOTES/pdf_notes/note151.pdf
See also: http://itep.org/itep_reports/2015/04/undocumented-immigrants-state-local...
Are there hidden legions of American citizens lining up to pick flowers and work as nannies or housekeepers? Of course not. Supply and demand dude.
Illegal immigrants don't vote. Why tell a lie that is so easy to disprove?
If you're so sure that the cost of social services outweigh the benefits of cheap labor, produce the numbers, make sure they are from a verifiable source.
If you're so sure that the cost of social services outweigh the benefits of cheap labor, produce the numbers, make sure they are from a verifiable source.
I think the truth on Trump is coming nearer, Soon the investigations will come out with his draft dodging, who he paid to take his exams in college, and that his job creations are phony. He is a salesman for his name only. And like a previous commenter before me, he seems to follow and idolize the theories and behavior of Josef Goebbels. If you create panic and tell lie after lie, people start to believe it as the truth. God help us.
32
There are very few issues where the Times Editorial Board and the billionaire donor class of the Republican Party see eye to eye, but immigration is one of them. While the verbiage may be different, the naive and emotional open boarders enthusiasm of the Times perfectly complements the cynical desire for cheap labor of the Republican elites.
Personally, Donald Trump is a clown and not fit to be president. But his position on immigration is far closer to that of the American people than those of either the Times or the Republican donor class. Indeed, as it is becoming clear that this is one of the big reasons for his popularity, it is hardly surprising that the other Republican candidates are belatedly following suit. And while even immigration restriction organizations like NumbersUSA and the Center for Immigration Studies have distanced themselves from some of Trump's more excessive personal comments, Trump's six-page position paper on immigration was clearly written by people who understand the issue, and is full of moderate and sensible proposals that would only seem extreme to people who think that the very idea of controlling our boarders is extreme. If Trump succeeds in moving the immigration debate in a more sensible direction, then in that much at least, if nothing else, I say good for him!
Personally, Donald Trump is a clown and not fit to be president. But his position on immigration is far closer to that of the American people than those of either the Times or the Republican donor class. Indeed, as it is becoming clear that this is one of the big reasons for his popularity, it is hardly surprising that the other Republican candidates are belatedly following suit. And while even immigration restriction organizations like NumbersUSA and the Center for Immigration Studies have distanced themselves from some of Trump's more excessive personal comments, Trump's six-page position paper on immigration was clearly written by people who understand the issue, and is full of moderate and sensible proposals that would only seem extreme to people who think that the very idea of controlling our boarders is extreme. If Trump succeeds in moving the immigration debate in a more sensible direction, then in that much at least, if nothing else, I say good for him!
38
JohnB
You should not presume to speak for "the American people."
This American person happens to disagree with you, so your vote just got canceled out by mine.
You should not presume to speak for "the American people."
This American person happens to disagree with you, so your vote just got canceled out by mine.
A marginal but dangerous demagogue has hijacked the Republican party. I disagreee that Donald Trump's appeals to racism are "subtextual;" they are blatantly obvious. When one singles out a specific group as owning many or all of the worst characteristics to be found in the human condition, that "one" is making a definitive, blanket statement: one size fits all. Our immigration problem with Mexico turned mean because of our historic land-grabs from them and from Spain. The ancient grievances were exacerbated by our finacial and material prosperity. Americans have been encouraged to think of the people south of our borders not as neighbors but as enemies, intrusive and secretive. Contrast these stereotypes with Canada; is there an anti-Canadian crusade abroad in the land to limit their comings and goings? Donald Trump is the current poison in the kool-aid, but it was poured into the well of national debate by right-wing zealots whose misplaced idea(s) of patriotism long ago paid its wages to blind xenophobia. The party's hierarchy of old money and grudging reluctance to modern realities created a vacuum into which sinister reactionary forces found, at first, a harbor, then a beachhead from which to stage and marshal their forces of hate. Mr. Trump's value, so far, anyway, has been to reveal the ugly core at the center of our immigration issue. His panicked rivals see how successful division is; they're caught up in the anti-immigration whirlpool from which there's no rescue.
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Trump did not hijack the party. They gave him the keys.
How can you possibly compare "illegal" immigration from Canada to that south of the border? Do we have a right to protect our borders or not? If not, why? If yes, than the status quo is not working.
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You claim "racism" because that's a sesame-street catchword repeated over and over by the left. it means nothing here. illegal immigrants are threatening our way of life. did you ever consider how many of them are sick and bringing diseases? way back in the day (1950's) I was subjected to vaccinations before I could get into the US from BRITAIN. That was done away with and today we have a public health threat ... just one aspect of this matter.
1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human rights
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
4. Supremacy of the Military
5. Rampant Sexism
6. Controlled Mass Media
7. Obsession with National Security
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined
9. Corporate Power is Protected
10. Labor Power is Suppressed
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
14. Fraudulent Elections
Sound familiar? Is it the republican platform? No, it is the 14 tenets of fascism.
#3 is particularly scary for those of us who have actually learned from history and do not want to be doomed to repeat it.
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human rights
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
4. Supremacy of the Military
5. Rampant Sexism
6. Controlled Mass Media
7. Obsession with National Security
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined
9. Corporate Power is Protected
10. Labor Power is Suppressed
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
14. Fraudulent Elections
Sound familiar? Is it the republican platform? No, it is the 14 tenets of fascism.
#3 is particularly scary for those of us who have actually learned from history and do not want to be doomed to repeat it.
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Yep and I love it. Go Trump!
Thank you for this....Fascism is embraced by society before most people are aware of it. It starts and then runs it's own course.
Someone said to me that what's happening in America now is nothing like what happened in Germany regarding fascism....we'll see.
Someone said to me that what's happening in America now is nothing like what happened in Germany regarding fascism....we'll see.
Trump may be toxic, but he is no fool. Like Reagan, he understands the appeal of nationalism and wrapping himself in the American flag....emphasis on "American". He juxtaposes himself against the Democrats who are the party of immigrants and LGBTs....not "American" at all but those who threaten the American dream. Then, his Republican opponents are either quazi-Democrats or weaklings who can't beat the Democrats. This campaign feels very much like 1980 or 1988. Remember Willie Horton? He is now Wilfredo Hortino. The Democrats are cannibalizing Hillary and the Republicans are capitalizing on Democratic disorganization. A month ago I didn't think that Trump could ever get the GOP nomination and certainly not win a national, Presidential election. Now, I'm not so sure.
12
Is Trump descended from immigrants? If he actually could cause the revocation of birthright citizenship, would that mean he, as a descendant of non-native-born immigrants, is not a citizen? Like most of us?
10
His father was born here.
Trump's father's parents were born in Germany