Trump could also use some hair styling tips from Kim Jong Un.
38
What everyone seems to be missing in tallying the cost of a wall on the US southern border, is that Trump says it is the Mexican Government that should build it. Seriously, what could possibly induce Mexico to build it and pay for it? His whole wall proposal is simply nonsensical, and should not be taken seriously, like almost everything his proposes. He gets his advice on how he would use US troops against ISIS, for example, from magazines and newspapers. I guess like Sara Palin, he reads all the newspapers!
15
I guess Mr. Kelly is suggesting that since all walls are permeable, why try? Does that mean that he doesn't lock his house, his car or use antivirus on his computer? After all, all of those could be penetrated.
And as to the DMZ, I would guess that very, very few Koreans of any stripe want to even try to make it across. Of course, Mr. Kelly can prove his point by trying to make it across in one piece.
And as to the DMZ, I would guess that very, very few Koreans of any stripe want to even try to make it across. Of course, Mr. Kelly can prove his point by trying to make it across in one piece.
7
To Steve C - please don't say President Trump - it is bad enough he is a candidate!
3
Actually, I like the idea of a border with some DMZ characteristics. We don't need the landmines. You're putting this article out as sarcasm of Mr. Trump's position, opining that the Mexicans won't like it and that we will get costly blowback from them on trade, oil and tourism. I believe that - wall or no wall - Mexico will continue to accept our tourists, will continue to sell us oil and will continue to buy our goods because we buy lots of their goods. The REAL costs we have incurred and will continue to incur are because we fail to control our border. Effective national borders make possible the perpetuation of a society of people with common values. One of our core common values is the rule of law. Because our southern border is effectively non-existent, these preposterous conditions have been spawned - issuing drivers licenses to illegals, discussion of maybe letting non-citizens vote in our elections, and the existence of sanctuary cities (remember pre-Civil War "nullification"?) to name a few. I think it's a better idea in this over-globalized world to help other countries or failed states deal with their problems within their borders rather than accepting an overwhelming number of people from a foreign country, many of whom might be opposed to assimilation into the existing culture and legal structure of this country.
20
Walls. What a joke.
Walls will be totally irrelevant as drones become cheaper and more powerful. I've already thought this through. All you'll need is one of those baby swings. Then tie a drone to the end of each seat string, take your seat, grab some tacos and a cold beer and your good to go. I can't wait to see the skies of Texas darkened with the flocks of incoming Mexican families, their feet gently swinging back and forth high overhead. Bathroom stops can be synchronized to take place over any of the numerous and convenient Trump golf courses they'll pass along the way.
Walls will be totally irrelevant as drones become cheaper and more powerful. I've already thought this through. All you'll need is one of those baby swings. Then tie a drone to the end of each seat string, take your seat, grab some tacos and a cold beer and your good to go. I can't wait to see the skies of Texas darkened with the flocks of incoming Mexican families, their feet gently swinging back and forth high overhead. Bathroom stops can be synchronized to take place over any of the numerous and convenient Trump golf courses they'll pass along the way.
9
Instead of the ridiculous notion of constructing a massive wall to keep out an entire nation of people, this country should devise an intelligent system for processing immigrants that legally allow them to work here and contribute to the economy. Every act of exclusion hurts the US equally, if not more, than the peoples whom are excluded.
24
I agree. Let's send Donald Trump to North Korea.
15
I'm surprised a former diplomat who served in Mexico would write such a tongue-in-cheek essay about dealing with the problems of illegal immigrants coming across our southern border. The armistice line between North and South Korea, or the DMZ as it is more commonly known, is enduring reminder that the psychotic regime in North Korea continues to cause enormous problems for the families divided so long ago by their country's civil war. It is certainly no joking matter, nor is it much of a solution for anything.
The only thing fitting about the Korean DMZ in this instance is the almost cartoon level of idiocy involved in maintaining it. This is something Donald Trump could embrace. Unfortunately, neither Kim Jong-un, nor Donald Trump are capable of learning anything about dealing with political issues in anything other than grossly aberrant ways. The politics of hate is alive and well around the world, and comes in many guises.
18
We can mock Trump all we want but he is bringing to the fore the issue of immigration and how we will integrate it into modern US society. Consider the current situation in CA: One need not be a legal resident to obtain a driver's license, or to practice law. There has been a serious push to allow non-US citizens the right to vote in CA elections and to serve on juries (these bills passed the legislature but were vetoed by Gov. Brown), effectively the only real perks of citizenship left. Forget birthright citizenship; we are on a path to "heartbeat citizenship", where the only requirement to become a citizen will be a pulse. Is this really what we want as a country? Perhaps so, but it should only be decided after a productive debate, one which The Donald has kicked off.
11
Your tongue in cheek solution would definitely work in sealing off our borders. Since Mexico is already at war with the American taxpayer who is footing the bill the Mexican citizens who illegally entered out country (Medical Care, Education) the justification is already there. All that would need to happen is one land mine going off and word will spread like wildfire throughout Mexico and Central America that if you try to enter the US illegally you will enter the gates of heaven instead (unless you are with sin). And for illegal aliens who are pregnant and manage to elude the land mines let Planned Parenthood speak to them about how "valuable" their anchor babies can be.
6
Your title assumes that Donald Trumps is capable of learning--a very problematic assumption at best.
4
Kelly neglected to quote Robert Frost on the subject!
3
I'm sure a Trump Presidency could build a wall cheaper than the reported $3 million a mile and would probably add gold leaf to boot!
5
There would be numerous expenses connected with the wall Trump wishes for, the least of which would be the gold he'd want to plate it with, the statues of himself placed at every mile and his name written repeatedly in diamonds.
3
How the Republicans have changed. Seems like only yesterday one of them said " Mr Gorbochov, tear down that wall."
12
We also can point out how well the Berlin Wall worked to closet off East Germany and how incredibly well the Great Wall of China prevented the invasion of the Mongols and the Manchus.
Thanks for your piece.
Thanks for your piece.
5
Does the rest of the country know that whatever this man does results in TRUMP in very big letters, dominating all other aspects of signage. I can see this wall (continuation, since some of it is built already, some is"virtual" and some cannot be built) adorned with TRUMP usa
1
Boy oh boy are were a lost nation of fearful toadies.
Truly hard to believe anyone considers that we were ever considered to be a free let alone brave people. We are degrading ourselves and seem to be welcoming the lower depth to which we have sunk.
Too many of our fellow citizens believe what this guy is saying for me to think he is a parody. They accept the madness he preaches as gospel. I'm getting the idea he may actually believe his words. Worse yet it appears the rest of the Republican field of candidates do as well.
Truly hard to believe anyone considers that we were ever considered to be a free let alone brave people. We are degrading ourselves and seem to be welcoming the lower depth to which we have sunk.
Too many of our fellow citizens believe what this guy is saying for me to think he is a parody. They accept the madness he preaches as gospel. I'm getting the idea he may actually believe his words. Worse yet it appears the rest of the Republican field of candidates do as well.
5
Bravo Mr. Kelly . Very elegant and elucidating article. Only one problem, Trumps admirers belong to a category of Americans who read little, admire reality TV "stars", and do not suffer the burden of nuanced thought and analysis. They just want "their America back," and don't want anyone to "tread" on them. Mr Trump is serving them the fast food junk diet politically speaking, that satisfies their appetite for red meat. Only problem is, if the foreign and domestic policies inspired by Trump and several other red meat chefs on the republican side go into effect, we will all eventually suffer the heart attacks that thoughtless policies lead to, as you have pointed out with irony and humor. I hope America wakes up and smartens up before the next election !
8
Mr. Trump's xenophobic talk fires up the crowds of the similarly minded in the electorate. He offers simple solutions. And that's the problem; he makes the electorate impatient for a solution that is, in fact, complex. He may be upsetting the apple carts of GOP primary candidates now, yet he can do far more damage in the general election when he well might run on a third party ticket. And that's a very big apple cart to upset.
4
The whole Iron Curtain should be our model. I was told that the Albanian-Greek border was the tightest because the guards would shoot from both sides at anybody trying to cross it. Perhaps the Donald can force the Mexican authorities to shoot anyone trying to cross the US-Mexican border (in either direction).
"Good fences, good neighbors make". But what exactly constitutes a good fence? What greater goal is this massive exclusion expected to achieve?
1
Will the name "Trump" appear in 10 foot letters every mile or so?
2
Donald Trump's Great Wall of Texas would be as effective as the guard towers and barbed wire that surrounded Stalag 13 of "Hogan's Heros" fame.
Of course he'd be assuming the role of Col. Klink as he'd be the guy in charge, while at the same time articulating the wisdom of Sargent Schultz -- "I know nothing".
p.s. Col Klink had better hair ;)
Of course he'd be assuming the role of Col. Klink as he'd be the guy in charge, while at the same time articulating the wisdom of Sargent Schultz -- "I know nothing".
p.s. Col Klink had better hair ;)
6
The sarcasm of this column is as misplaced as it's cheap.
For one, the DMZ is pretty effective, more than good enough for our southern states.
Two, the Israeli separation barrier has been extremely effective, saving countless lives and still allowing transfer goods and people across.
Three, and most important, if enforced, even 1/10 of such fortification will accomplish the goal. If the fence-hoppers-to-be know for a fact that their chance of getting through the barbwire, guards' bullets, and attack dogs alive is about 10% at best, that would decrease the southern "immigration" to an easily manageable size.
If we also add to it a mandatory immediate deportation of the few 'lucky' who made it through in one peace - the problem's solved once and for all, and the American people is again the rightful owner of their country.
For one, the DMZ is pretty effective, more than good enough for our southern states.
Two, the Israeli separation barrier has been extremely effective, saving countless lives and still allowing transfer goods and people across.
Three, and most important, if enforced, even 1/10 of such fortification will accomplish the goal. If the fence-hoppers-to-be know for a fact that their chance of getting through the barbwire, guards' bullets, and attack dogs alive is about 10% at best, that would decrease the southern "immigration" to an easily manageable size.
If we also add to it a mandatory immediate deportation of the few 'lucky' who made it through in one peace - the problem's solved once and for all, and the American people is again the rightful owner of their country.
5
So President Trump builds a wall and sure enough, in a few years, cooler heads prevail and a growing chant is heard across America and Mexico, "Mr. Trump, tear down this wall."
10
Mr. Trump needs to take one of his helicopters out to the Statue of Liberty in New York Harbor and read the Emma Lazarus poem that was incorporated there in 1903. Then someone needs to remind him that he is not The New Colossus --he is only The Donald. And however rich, he is ever so small. In mind and heart.
Or as President and in keeping with his final solution to the immigration problem he could force latinos to wear brown stars.
Or as President and in keeping with his final solution to the immigration problem he could force latinos to wear brown stars.
9
Weren't those legal immigrants?
The USA could easily deport 11 million people. Figuring about $25,000 per person including policing, administration, housing and feeding in transit and transportation, it would only cost about 270 billion dollars. Building a truly secure fence would cost more than $3 million per mile; let's say $5 million. For 1,800 miles that only adds another $9 billion. All in for under $300 billion but let's make it an even $1 trillion since cost overruns are inevitable and the cost per deportee will rise as their numbers decline. Maybe add another trillion or two for lost GDP but it's still totally doable. Or we could just provide education and healthcare to the entire population, including those hardy souls that came here to seek a better life.
37
Nonsense! With the volume discount from Greyhound, it would cost about $50 per illegal alien (children under 6 ride for free!).
Say it with me: Sí se puede! Trump for President!
Say it with me: Sí se puede! Trump for President!
I choose the fence and vote for it with my taxpayer money.
2
The jury is still out on this whole new-and-improved border thing. Trump is considering putting his Name up in lights, on both sides of the Trump-Wall, but Mexico, at least so far, has been delaying the contract-signing. It appears that most of our Neighbors--South of the Border--would prefer a string of Trump-style pinatas.
http://thetruthoncommonsense.com
http://thetruthoncommonsense.com
6
North and South Korea are one country, divided by an ill-conceived war, whereas the US and Mexico are not.
If the DMZ was eliminated between North and South Korea, what would happen is that low skilled uneducated North Koreans needing extensive social services would overwhelm South Korea and destroy their thriving economy and culture.
Does that seem like a good idea to anyone?
If the DMZ was eliminated between North and South Korea, what would happen is that low skilled uneducated North Koreans needing extensive social services would overwhelm South Korea and destroy their thriving economy and culture.
Does that seem like a good idea to anyone?
9
...but, somehow, no-one in the North would open their own factory? Let's take another look at the long-term affects of the Berlin Wall's removal - or do you think was a mistake, too?
How ugly for our southern border to be dominated by a fence or military type zone. I would hate to see the landscape of Big Bend National Park for instance, destroyed by a big ugly fence or men with heavy gun power everywhere. The Rio Grande Valley would also be quite spoiled. There just has to be a better solution than militarizing our borders and fencing them up.
6
Mary, no offense, but your comments are very easy to say living thousands of miles away in Brooklyn.
11
How many of the "secure our borders" crowd know about the 4,000 dead in the last decade? More important, are you willing to shoot people and blow them up? If not, no physical barrier is ever strong enough -- people already risk death. If you are willing to kill them, God help you. Not in my America, ever.
21
Another smug commenter thousands of miles away from the border. You should move to southern Arizona to get a taste of what its really like. Besides that, you propose a ridiculous scenario as a strawman. The goal is to reduce inflow of people and make the job of the border patrol easier. People that made it through would be arrested and sent home. Nobody is talking about shooting people.
15
The reason it 'is really like' that is because of the fence. These people are generally passing through southern Arizona. They disperse to all parts of the country - ask Dalton Ga. So, I don't find your place of residence giving you the high-ground to judge whether anther person's opinion is well-grounded. You may say 'no offense' but your use of 'smug' and your dismissal of others seems to indicate that you are both offended and defensive of differing opinions. No offense.
2
Dave, if you hate and despise the level of taxation you have now, it would balloon under a President Trump. You have been duped into the Trump belief that anything he says will work or come true because he is the "Donald". Particularly the part about getting Mexico to pay for the wall. I have some land in Florida you may be interested in.
I am surprised that no enterprising Americans have yet capitalized on the implications of Trump's proposal for a "Final Solution" to the immigration "problem". Can it be long before we'll find armbands for sale on Amazon, suitable for compulsory wearing by all American residents who look like they might be "illegals"? Not to mention the additional rail lines that will need to be built to the border, all the better to transport the rail cars full of suspected illegals to the Walmart "processing centers"? The GOP candidates aren't the only ones dodging the real implications of Trump's dangerous lies.
29
If we employ a little Extraordinary Rendition we may find that some central European countries already have unoccupied detention facilities available. They're abut 80-years old but...
The problem with the U.S. Mexico border seems just a long festering of the ambiguous end of war in 1848. The U.S. acquired Texas in a questionable way--declared so by Ulysses S. Grant in his memoirs (that Grant that won the Civil War and became President). Prior to 1848 Mexico ruled a big chunk of what is now the U.S.--ruled it inadequately. Then the U.S. fought Mexico and acquired territory forming Texas, and up to this day there has been a rather loose going back and forth between Mexico and the U.S. to the point that today we have to ask if Mexico is asserting its right to old territory. In a way the border between the U.S. and Mexico is like the border problem in the Middle East--drawn by the West and never entirely accurate to types of people, religion, culture. Probably if the U.S. were to take a hard line with respect to border we would hear more more calls from Mexicans that the U.S. stole Texas anyway. Hard to tell the outcome. But the situation is clearly one of "border ambiguity" because of historical situation. The problem is not just surface one of "Mexicans are crossing illegally, the U.S. needs a stronger border, drugs are coming in", etc. There is a lot of complex history behind the problem. If the U.S. were to view the problem through the lens of North, South Korea--view that as solution--that would be tragic because the Korean situation is itself a major tragedy and unnatural. I would like to see a deep, historical and well argued article on this problem.
7
"today we have to ask if Mexico is asserting its right to old territory. "
You are correct that historically the US acquired Texas under questionable circumstances. However I have to say so what. The entire world is different than it was a century and a half ago and basing what we do now on what happened more than 150 years ago would be patently absurd. It happened and now Texas and the rest of the southwest are part of the United States.
You are correct that historically the US acquired Texas under questionable circumstances. However I have to say so what. The entire world is different than it was a century and a half ago and basing what we do now on what happened more than 150 years ago would be patently absurd. It happened and now Texas and the rest of the southwest are part of the United States.
6
Does nobody understand irony anymore?!?!
Read article again and then read "a modest proposal" by Jonathan Swift.
Read article again and then read "a modest proposal" by Jonathan Swift.
Part of your "complex history" is that you appear to be unaware that Texas was an independent country before it joined the U.S.
3
No one has mentioned that the real problem is Legal immigration or more accurately the lack of it. The process and requirements for legal immigration and a path to citizenship are a bureaucratic nightmare and the process takes way to long. Who would wait 2 years for work permit approval when in a week they can be across the border earning money for their families. Issue work permits to as many people as we can employ and deport all of those who are found working without them. Track these legal workers and send them home when their work is done. For those that wish to stay, create a timely, fair, and simple way to achieve citizenship. Then come down hard on anyone who still subverts the system.
4
Actually South Korean "Wall" (as earlier Berlin Wall embodiment) is designed to keep people "IN" and not "OUT". I am trying to see parallels with Trump's proposal (which I find impractical), but, in the absence of the evidence of throngs of South Koreans trying to jump DMZ and get into People's Republic paradise illegally, I really cannot see any resemblance.
One more comment- if you actually start paying decent wages we would not need illegal (pardon moi, "undocumented") laborers in either agriculture or in computer coding.
One more comment- if you actually start paying decent wages we would not need illegal (pardon moi, "undocumented") laborers in either agriculture or in computer coding.
15
Supply and demand.
As long as illegal immigrants are here and willing to work for 50% of legal immigrants and US citizens, wages will not rise.
As long as illegal immigrants are here and willing to work for 50% of legal immigrants and US citizens, wages will not rise.
7
One way to encourage that is to implement mandatory e-verify. Then employers will be forced to hire American citizens (or those here LEGALLY) and will have to raise their wages to a level necessary to do so.
7
So - it's ok to buy cheap stuff made by unpaid prisoners in China??? Or do you boycott WalMart, too?
The irony is that there appears to be a direct correlation between increasing border security and the increase in illegal migration. It wasn't too long ago that the laborers would go back to their own country during the off season when work was no longer available and come back again when work was. Increasing border security made it risky for them to go back.
18
I never realized that the illegal immigrants coming from Mexico, who survive, are such a threat to our country. I thought this problem has been significantly reduced from previous years, given all the impediments. Besides, if California agriculture can't find enough field workers to pick their crops, so what. The drought is reducing the size of the crops, anyway.
6
I suggest we go back in time before Trump made known his first utterly inane plans for immigration and return to the petty squabbling that has been underway in our utterly inane Congress.
Trump has offered the immigration issue some comic relief and not a darned thing more.
Trump has offered the immigration issue some comic relief and not a darned thing more.
10
It sounds as if those who are opposed to the wall also want open borders.
10
Of course it can't work. Trump knows that. He'll say anything. It's the people who believe him that I worry about.
34
What Mr. Kelly is really writing about is how profoundly ignorant Mr. Trump is, how profoundly ignorant are many in the Republican field, including, notably, Fiorina and Carson -- some of the others are simply cynics.
Mr. Trump does not know anything. He knows no history, no economics (business is not economics), no science, no policy, nothing of international relations, agreements, accords, means, methods, diplomacy -- nothing, nothing at all and so he appeals to a constituency that every poll now shows is about one quarter of the Republican electorate, which means it is about one tenth of the entire electorate.
That translates into some 10 million to 12 million adult Americans who are ignorant and know little if anything about everything. And that is truly alarming.
Mr. Trump does not know anything. He knows no history, no economics (business is not economics), no science, no policy, nothing of international relations, agreements, accords, means, methods, diplomacy -- nothing, nothing at all and so he appeals to a constituency that every poll now shows is about one quarter of the Republican electorate, which means it is about one tenth of the entire electorate.
That translates into some 10 million to 12 million adult Americans who are ignorant and know little if anything about everything. And that is truly alarming.
80
You are right, Notafan, except that "Mr." Trump does know a few things—especially how to get ratings and media attention. If P. T. Barnum had run for president, maybe this is how he would have gone about it.
Why do MSNBC and other viewer-hungry media outlets feed this man what he craves most: their continuing obsessive "coverage"? He is a silly, self-important little man masquerading as a serious one.
Why do MSNBC and other viewer-hungry media outlets feed this man what he craves most: their continuing obsessive "coverage"? He is a silly, self-important little man masquerading as a serious one.
12
"(business is not economics)"
This, right here, is the big problem. Business is not economics; it is psychology. That is why, for example, "free-to-play" game companies (the games are nominally free-to-play, but major parts of and enhancements to them require payment) employ not just programmers, but psychologists (to figure out the right ways to get people to empty the wallet) and business managers; why I shake my head when people call Silicon Valley a "tech" area (it's a marketing area, where Gates and Microsoft stole code to sell, and Jobs and now Cook use free software to build DRM-filled, walled-garden products to take people's money); and why stock shareholders buy and sell in response to Consumer (oh how I detest that word) Confidence surveys.
It's a brain-hypnotize-brain world out there in the land of business, and the brains with money are winning even more.
This, right here, is the big problem. Business is not economics; it is psychology. That is why, for example, "free-to-play" game companies (the games are nominally free-to-play, but major parts of and enhancements to them require payment) employ not just programmers, but psychologists (to figure out the right ways to get people to empty the wallet) and business managers; why I shake my head when people call Silicon Valley a "tech" area (it's a marketing area, where Gates and Microsoft stole code to sell, and Jobs and now Cook use free software to build DRM-filled, walled-garden products to take people's money); and why stock shareholders buy and sell in response to Consumer (oh how I detest that word) Confidence surveys.
It's a brain-hypnotize-brain world out there in the land of business, and the brains with money are winning even more.
1
Maybe a "know-nothing" pro American will be better than an educated "peace in our time" President and Secretary of State. The only difference is that this time it's a cane instead of an umbrella.
1
What this article makes clear is that the Obama administration has been Trump-lite -- hard on immigrants, but without the gratuitous blather. People on foot have been shunted into narrower paths as walls go up, while the border patrol has stepped up patrols using helicopters and other technology. Those 4000 dead bodies are testimony to just how hard it is to make it safely across the border while staying hidden. You can't walk down a road, you fear both the Border Patrol and criminals who prey on people nobody knows are there. Private prisons have thrived, taking in men, women and children while their asylum cases chug through the courts. Busses full of people return to Mexico regularly, returning any and all Mexican citizens who are captured. Americans, as usual, are underinformed but full of opinions.
10
That would be the perfect moniker for the GOP base. Over opinionated, under informed.
All the walls, minefields, and razor wire on the Korean DMZ are only to slow down North Koreans. What stops them are bullets from South Korean soldiers. If you want a wall no one can climb, you need to be willing to shoot those who do it anyway. Are we willing?
7
I will settle for any wall that works on the southern border - the DMZ, the Berline Wall, the Israel wall, moat with alligators etc. etc. I just want a wall that works and does the job it is intended to do - stop illegal immigrants from crossing the border into this country.
A wall should force people to cross through the legitimate crossing points and border control station established by this country, not through some other route.
I just want a wall that works!!
A wall should force people to cross through the legitimate crossing points and border control station established by this country, not through some other route.
I just want a wall that works!!
16
Do you feel the same way about the Canadian border?
18
Of course this should apply to the Canadian border too.
3
M from Dallas,
allow me to answer.
Yes, once thousands of low skilled, poor, uneducated people start pouring in from Canada, I want minefields, barbwire, pitbulls, and a shoot to kill order to thousands of guards.
And I also want a mandatory immediate deportation of ones who'd still manage to get through alive.
And by deportation I mean taking them to the border on buses and dropping on the other side.
allow me to answer.
Yes, once thousands of low skilled, poor, uneducated people start pouring in from Canada, I want minefields, barbwire, pitbulls, and a shoot to kill order to thousands of guards.
And I also want a mandatory immediate deportation of ones who'd still manage to get through alive.
And by deportation I mean taking them to the border on buses and dropping on the other side.
8
To Trump's Korean DMZ education, add this:
Mandatory 18-month service in that volatile zone, with nothing more than a canteen and set of fatigues.
Mandatory 18-month service in that volatile zone, with nothing more than a canteen and set of fatigues.
6
I wonder how many Trumpets - Trump supporters - will miss the sarcasm and take the DMZ example seriously?
Trump's proposed wall across the southern border would be our very own Maginot Line, built at U.S. taxpayer expense. Since Trump likes everything to be named after himself, perhaps we can call it President Trump's Folly or maybe the Great Wall of Trumpistan. Future generations can visit it as a monument to early 21st Century American protectionism, racism, and economic self-sabotage through disruption of trade with our second largest trading partner. Where do I register to vote?
Trump's proposed wall across the southern border would be our very own Maginot Line, built at U.S. taxpayer expense. Since Trump likes everything to be named after himself, perhaps we can call it President Trump's Folly or maybe the Great Wall of Trumpistan. Future generations can visit it as a monument to early 21st Century American protectionism, racism, and economic self-sabotage through disruption of trade with our second largest trading partner. Where do I register to vote?
24
Perhaps they are being sarcastic in pretending to go along :)
It’s all about incentives. We incentivize people to come here when we offer them jobs and automatic citizenship to their newborns. Instead of incentivizing these behaviors, candidates of all parties should demand that no person be hired without verifiable documentation. No job, no incentive to come here in the first place. Fences and birthright citizenship become moot points, not to mention that requiring documentation is far cheaper and more humane than building fences and denying citizenship to babies.
17
If parents then have documents and are not "illegal", will their children gain citizenship?
Mr. Trump is right on about the wall. Let's see: 1,700 miles @ $3 million. (Quick, somebody do the math.) It would be 20 feet tall to thwart those 19-foot ladders, and it would be sunk at least 100 feet underground to block those tunnels. And at each end it would project at least 20 miles into the sea so the pangas would have a lengthy sail. And yet, a few hand-built submarines have been spotted ferrying drugs and who knows what else. It sound just like a project the Trump Construction Company will handle handily. Employment will boom on this side of the wall. And on the other? Guess the Mexicans will just have to buy stuff and sell their oil elsewhere.
9
There is a much easier solution than the wall.
According to a recent NYT article Mexican children are deathly afraid of Donald Trump.
What I am picturing is a long line of Trump pinatas strung along the border scarecrow style, their blond wigs flapping smartly in the breeze. Cheap, effective, and practical. And if you run out of candy you can always fill it with...
According to a recent NYT article Mexican children are deathly afraid of Donald Trump.
What I am picturing is a long line of Trump pinatas strung along the border scarecrow style, their blond wigs flapping smartly in the breeze. Cheap, effective, and practical. And if you run out of candy you can always fill it with...
41
Trump? Learn?
That concept will not penetrate his ego.
That concept will not penetrate his ego.
5
Trump's arrogance, narcissism notwithstanding, seems limitless, particularly when using the bully pulpit nowadays, with the pretext of offering potential solutions of his magnifying mole of immigration-related doom. Is he really smart, reasonable and truly trying to accommodate to our reality? Or is he stupid by subverting the brain's ability to think straight and make sense? A renowned scientist of the XX century, Albert Einstein, when asked whether the Universe had limits, answered that he wasn't sure; that the only certainly he had was that human stupidity was limitless. And 'trumpism' proves it.
4
"Gaps in our existing wall allow illegal immigrants to sneak through unfenced areas in harsh desert or mountain terrain, where more than 4,000 have died of exposure or thirst over the past 10 years. They don’t have this problem on the gap-free DMZ."
They don't have this problem when they remain in their own country. Moreover, nobody ever died of exposure or thirst sitting in a U.S. consulate office, applying for legal entry to the U.S.
They don't have this problem when they remain in their own country. Moreover, nobody ever died of exposure or thirst sitting in a U.S. consulate office, applying for legal entry to the U.S.
6
What the heck is the matter with you readers, can't any of you appreciate a good piece of satire?
All great ideas, although I would pull out the land mines. Not at war with Mexico? Are you kidding me, what about the War on Drugs???
Can you imagine if we had this wall for the last 50 years how much more money we would have from paying and contributing taxpayers?
Gosh, we may have had a surplus. We may have been able to take care of the eroding infrastructure of our own country. We would have had unlimited funds to wage war on the middle east with out borrowing from China to do it.
So readers, take note, Trump is only saying what half the American people are thinking. The other half, mostly GOP are too busy making money off the backs of these illegals to care. For me, I'm investing in Ladder companies.
All great ideas, although I would pull out the land mines. Not at war with Mexico? Are you kidding me, what about the War on Drugs???
Can you imagine if we had this wall for the last 50 years how much more money we would have from paying and contributing taxpayers?
Gosh, we may have had a surplus. We may have been able to take care of the eroding infrastructure of our own country. We would have had unlimited funds to wage war on the middle east with out borrowing from China to do it.
So readers, take note, Trump is only saying what half the American people are thinking. The other half, mostly GOP are too busy making money off the backs of these illegals to care. For me, I'm investing in Ladder companies.
4
What I like about this candidacy is he'd be beholden to nobody once in office...he doesn't need campaign contributions in exchange for favours. What a catharsis that would be for the U.S. political process.
4
Robert: Well he certainly shows no signs of being beholden to the truth, or to the public. But seems inordinately beholden to his own insecurities.
5
Gee, I always thought that in a democracy officeholders were supposed to be beholden to the voters. Learn something new every day.
Ok, we're making progress here with constructive (pun intended) suggestions about border protection. But as we've been seeing in Greece, where thousands of refugees from Syria and Iraq have been literally flooding in by sea, it's also necessary for us to protect against flotillas of Mexicans attempting to reach our shores on the Gulf of Mexico and Pacific Ocean. So we need to augment our defenses with submarines.
1
No sir, submarines can't possibly create an effective dragnet. What we really need is to build a wall around all our coastlines too, even all the way up to northern Alaska and Maine. I think we should also pre-emptively build a wall along the entire Canadian border too, including the huge border between Canada and Alaska. We might even consider placing some anti-aircraft artillery at key airports, in case them illegals want to fly in. That'll show 'em.
8
Regarding the wall that is already in place - 700 miles at $3M/mile. Is there any data on its effectiveness? We hear that those determined to breech it can catapult it with taller ladders, dig under it, rappel it, bungee jump over it, hang glide over it....but how much illegal entry is through the area bordered by the wall? Is that wall deterring anyone and is the considerable investment in it worth it? Of the 11M - 30M illegal immigrants in this country, how many have entered since the wall's construction and at what points along the border have they entered? If they are going around it, then maybe it is an effective deterrent and should be extended. Its really hard to know from listening to all of the rhetoric on this topic if an investment in additional wall construction is with merit. Could we please have a quantitative analysis of this? That said, I'm really not a supporter of walls. A better job can be done by local communities in identifying people who are there illegally. They know who they when they hire them to do menial jobs.
1
The military is a defense organization, our own defense. We spend huge amounts defending the Europeans, the Koreans, the Japanese, and so forth. If we really want to defend our southern border, we can do it. Simply reduce our forces in the rest of the world and get out of the Middle East and redeploy troops to the border. The comparisons to Korea and the Berlin Wall are somewhat ludicrous. No one is suggesting that it is a big problem if we have some illegal immigrants. Many people would simply like to reduce the flow and have a say who comes here. We choose, the immigrants do not. We need a flow of immigrants, but some are more prone to be easily absorbed than others. Some bring needed talent, and some do not. All we would like is the ability to choose. If our borders are wide open, our kids and grandkids will look back and say, "what were they thinking?"
18
Aren't many GOP supporters also itching to go after ISIL in Syria and Iraq, and to renounce the Iran agreement so that we can prepare to bomb Iran? How do you go after ISIL and Iran while simultaneously pulling troops out of that region?
1
Yeah, send them all back. Then watch our food prices skyrocket. Maybe we can get the prisoners to pick our food or work in restaurant kitchens or mow our lawns.
7
With two thirds of Americans overweight to obese, food being more expensive would be beneficial, in the long run.
Not to mention that 2/3s of field workers are *legal* immigrants, whose wages have not increased in decades. Wonder how they feel about this unjust competition?
Not to mention that 2/3s of field workers are *legal* immigrants, whose wages have not increased in decades. Wonder how they feel about this unjust competition?
We had a DMZ in Vietnam.
Didn't work so good.
Didn't work so good.
3
Trump is blowing smoke and hot air on immigration to rally the troops and increase his poll numbers. All noise and no substance.
There is no way America could afford to build and staff a wall the size of which Mr. Trump envisions. And deporting 11 million illegals? More hot air. That would not only be prohibitively expensive but could also turn areas around the border with Mexico into police states. And Mexico sure doesn't have the money to pay for a wall---the reason illegals are streaming into America is because South of the border is so poor
and destitute.
Mr. Trump may say what people want to hear but he needs a serious reality check as to what can really be accomplished. Of course if you want to live in an unrealistic fantasy world regarding immigration policy then just keep listening to and agreeing with Mr. Trump.
There is no way America could afford to build and staff a wall the size of which Mr. Trump envisions. And deporting 11 million illegals? More hot air. That would not only be prohibitively expensive but could also turn areas around the border with Mexico into police states. And Mexico sure doesn't have the money to pay for a wall---the reason illegals are streaming into America is because South of the border is so poor
and destitute.
Mr. Trump may say what people want to hear but he needs a serious reality check as to what can really be accomplished. Of course if you want to live in an unrealistic fantasy world regarding immigration policy then just keep listening to and agreeing with Mr. Trump.
3
The Germans learned during WW2 on the Eastern Front among the landmines in the Marsh areas that horses and donkeys and mules won't step on landmines. Like mine-finding dogs, they can sense them, and they just don't step on them (much). That is another reason wild life is able to prosper among the minefields of that DMZ.
Even if we mine the border, they'll must follow dogs or ride through them. Or tunnel under them, which they already do anyway. Tunnels are a major way through the Korean DMZ too.
If they had to, the mini-subs that bring drugs could offer short side trips around. That happens in the DMZ too.
The Germans and French both discovered in WW1 that it is possible to infiltrate right through a major army in a trench line. Both did it as their main method by the end of the War. We are not going to entrench and fortify the border like WW1 trench lines.
The Israelis can't even keep the Palestinians in Gaza.
This is all a long standing fantasy. I realize that is the author's point.
Even if we mine the border, they'll must follow dogs or ride through them. Or tunnel under them, which they already do anyway. Tunnels are a major way through the Korean DMZ too.
If they had to, the mini-subs that bring drugs could offer short side trips around. That happens in the DMZ too.
The Germans and French both discovered in WW1 that it is possible to infiltrate right through a major army in a trench line. Both did it as their main method by the end of the War. We are not going to entrench and fortify the border like WW1 trench lines.
The Israelis can't even keep the Palestinians in Gaza.
This is all a long standing fantasy. I realize that is the author's point.
46
The right model for the U.S. are the border fences built by Israel over the last few years to keep out economic migrants (or as the Israeli government calls them, "illegal infiltrators") passing through Egypt from sub-Saharan Africa. Israel's fences have been spectacularly effective. If they are good enough for Israel, they ought to be good enough for America.
6
Donald Trump wrote "A nation without borders is not a nation". Begging to differ, there will never be an "impermeable membrane" between Mexico and the Southwestern United States, such as exists in the DMZ separating the two Koreas, and the Berlin Wall, which only separated the two Germanys for 44 years. Mr. Trump needs to note that Americans aren't escaping to El Sud that it's only "illegal aliens" (whatever one calls them) who sprint for El Norte from Central America and Mexico. And Canada to our north needs no impermeable border either - Canadians aren't seepng into the US from up that way - but Americans are becoming Canadian citizens by the droves. Fences - no matter how high can be scaled or tunneled under - make lousy neighbors, as Robert Frost noted. Donald Trump's tough stance on immigration is just one of the crazy appeals of the hair-challenged man to American voters in this endless 17 month quest for the Presidency by the Republican/GOP/Tea Party Conservatives. When will The Donald's fifteen minutes of fame come to its well-deserved end?
6
Altho a wall seems like a popular idea as it will do nothing however it gives our politicians something to point at. I have a much better idea that can kill two of the GOP goals with one stone so to speak. Invade Mexico, this will start a war, which the GOP want, but will save us the time and money of shipping all our stuff to Iran and make the border a non issue as there will be none, and as the GOP learned in Iraq, this time we will annex the country so we can make all mexicans citizens, so ends the immigration debate!!
5
Our press and electronic media, and tens of millions of people, are preoccupied with witnessing and analyzing the words and actions of an individual whom medical authorities consider as suffering from acute narcissism. That is our sickness.
28
No one can argue against an orderly system for immigration although policies have often been skewed by prejudices against certain groups and by politics,
like the limitations on Southern Europeans in the 20’s and the wholesale acceptance of Cubans for decades. Two realities are at the root of the flood of immigrants from Mexico and Central America: the appalling economic conditions of some people, coupled with endemic violence, and the availability of employment in the US. The same conditions that attract people to Germany, England and the northern countries of Europe. The US has one option to reduce the flood of immigrants, deny them jobs by punishing farms, hotels, restaurants etc. that offer them employment. This will bring about economic consequences: higher wages that meet the demands of American workers, subsequent increase in prices we have to pay, and scarcity of workers in some sectors. Do this, if you are willing to take the risk, and you will reduce the problem considerably. The other option is to help these countries improve their economies. However, Trump is accusing American companies of economic betrayal for establishing factories in Mexico, factories that would give them jobs and no need to come to the States. Hunger is like water, it moves to fill the gap. Remove hunger and you don’t need to build a wall; do nothing and try to push back the waves.
like the limitations on Southern Europeans in the 20’s and the wholesale acceptance of Cubans for decades. Two realities are at the root of the flood of immigrants from Mexico and Central America: the appalling economic conditions of some people, coupled with endemic violence, and the availability of employment in the US. The same conditions that attract people to Germany, England and the northern countries of Europe. The US has one option to reduce the flood of immigrants, deny them jobs by punishing farms, hotels, restaurants etc. that offer them employment. This will bring about economic consequences: higher wages that meet the demands of American workers, subsequent increase in prices we have to pay, and scarcity of workers in some sectors. Do this, if you are willing to take the risk, and you will reduce the problem considerably. The other option is to help these countries improve their economies. However, Trump is accusing American companies of economic betrayal for establishing factories in Mexico, factories that would give them jobs and no need to come to the States. Hunger is like water, it moves to fill the gap. Remove hunger and you don’t need to build a wall; do nothing and try to push back the waves.
27
I don't believe this border will ever be completed. It is too good a political football to be used every election. After all how is it we have only completed 300 miles since 2001?
8
The Berlin wall was only 87 miles long, was fortified along its entire length, in most places with barbed wire and mines, and patrolled continuously with troops and dogs, and *still* people got through/under/over it anyway. Trump proposes to do something like this along 1700 miles through the desert? Besides the fact that it won't work, who's going to pay for it? Trump says "Mexico." And then Mexico just laughs and says, "You're kidding, right?"
Mr. Trump is trumpeting idiotic ideas, either because he is himself an idiot or because he takes the American people to be idiots. Appallingly, it seems that a large number of Republicans are falling for this nonsense.
Mr. Trump is trumpeting idiotic ideas, either because he is himself an idiot or because he takes the American people to be idiots. Appallingly, it seems that a large number of Republicans are falling for this nonsense.
221
This is correct. If Mexico was going to invest in a wall, it would be on its own southern border. They too deal with illegal immigrants -- from further south -- Honduras, El Salvador, Guatemala. Some of whom stay in Mexico, and some of them headed further north.
"Appallingly" or not Israelis fell for such nonsense too. They fenced the Palestinians off, and once they did it their casualties dropped significantly. Silly people they are trying to protect their country, aren't they?
Our task is much easier than Israel's. We don't face such highly motivated, well-trained and armed fighters.
All we need is a reasonably good deterrent. A barrier with electric barbwire, attack dogs, and sharpshooter guards. Making it a mortal danger will deter about 90% of border-crossers. An immediate mandatory deportation on the cheap will deter 90% of the remaining 10%. A good enough outcome that will choke the illegal migration from the South in a few short years.
It's feasible, it's practical, and most importantly, much cheaper than keep absorbing millions of illegal migrants. A priceless bonus is that the American people get to keep their country.
Our task is much easier than Israel's. We don't face such highly motivated, well-trained and armed fighters.
All we need is a reasonably good deterrent. A barrier with electric barbwire, attack dogs, and sharpshooter guards. Making it a mortal danger will deter about 90% of border-crossers. An immediate mandatory deportation on the cheap will deter 90% of the remaining 10%. A good enough outcome that will choke the illegal migration from the South in a few short years.
It's feasible, it's practical, and most importantly, much cheaper than keep absorbing millions of illegal migrants. A priceless bonus is that the American people get to keep their country.
We continue to focus on test scores as an indicator of educational achievement in this country. A better indicator is looking at poll numbers. I know schools can only do so much, but, you have to just shake your head at the middle school logic coming out of these campaigns. Somehow, these candidates managed to graduate from high school and even college, some from law school and medical school. Not a great endorsement of our educational system.
17
not all of them graduated from college!
1
If you are taking pot shots at folks with professional degrees, why not consider Congress and most other branches of government on the state and
Federal levels; they are overwhelmingly lawyers/attorneys. Talk about crazy!
Federal levels; they are overwhelmingly lawyers/attorneys. Talk about crazy!
All of our 'patriotic', 'real American' wanne-be Republican candidates have followed the example of the Texas school board which has eliminated the course of critical thinking from their curricula.
Who needs critical thinking if you can win over large numbers of your base through spewing hate and fear against 'the others' being responsible for all that ails a country? It worked in Germany in Jan. of 1933 with 32% of all voters giving a party of hate and fear the most votes.
Who needs critical thinking if you can win over large numbers of your base through spewing hate and fear against 'the others' being responsible for all that ails a country? It worked in Germany in Jan. of 1933 with 32% of all voters giving a party of hate and fear the most votes.
8
They may prevent crossing, but today they are shooting at one another and shelling each other.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/aug/20/south-korea-north-korea-bor...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/11813728/North...
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/aug/20/south-korea-north-korea-bor...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/11813728/North...
1
Because they are at war unlike the US and Mexico. Shooting happens during war. You should know that coming from Israel. How's the wall working out for you over there?
Have we forgotten the Berlin wall and how that worked out for everyone??
Walls are not solutions.
In the case of our Southern border, what about simply giving Texas back to Mexico.
Walls are not solutions.
In the case of our Southern border, what about simply giving Texas back to Mexico.
155
If we are repatriating land, California is a much better candidate.
Why don't we give them Massachusetts instead? Heck just throw in all of New England just for grins.
"giving Texas back to Mexico..."
Why? They didn't give it to us, we won it in war.
If Mexico wants to have another go at it, I'm all for it, let's duke it out, boys!
Why? They didn't give it to us, we won it in war.
If Mexico wants to have another go at it, I'm all for it, let's duke it out, boys!
Seriously brilliant and brilliantly serious!
8
What do all the walls ever built, such as Hadrian's Wall, Great Wall of China, Berlin Wall, etc., have in common?
They all failed and are now all tourist attractions.
They all failed and are now all tourist attractions.
79
That is not true.
The Israeli separation barrier is functioning well and is saving lives, as we type.
The Great Wall of China served well, when it was needed; it did not fail. Once we find a better solution to protect our sovereignty, we'll turn the Mexican wall into a rollercoaster for our and Mexican kids.
But not sooner!
The Israeli separation barrier is functioning well and is saving lives, as we type.
The Great Wall of China served well, when it was needed; it did not fail. Once we find a better solution to protect our sovereignty, we'll turn the Mexican wall into a rollercoaster for our and Mexican kids.
But not sooner!
If we didn't try to police the world and focused instead on our own problems and our own true self-interest as a nation, we could divert the cost of having 28,000 troops in Korea and station them on the border with Mexico. And the $3 million per mile price tag for building the wall is peanuts compared with what we dole out to our so-called friends and allies. I don't like Donald Trump or his positions on most policies, but I have to admit he's refreshing because he speaks his mind and doesn't pander to anyone.
7
Sorry Martin, but I've got to disagree. Trump does nothing but pander.
He panders to racists.
He panders to xenophobes.
He panders to rednecks.
He panders to poor whites, telling them that these "Mexicans" are their enemy and have come to take their jobs and to rape their women.
He is a demagogue in the style of Huey Long.
He is a demagogue in the style of Father Coughlin.
He is a demagogue in the style of Joe McCarthy.
I'd continue but would probably be moderated out by Godwin's Law.
This is a man who peddles fear. Nothing else.
He panders to racists.
He panders to xenophobes.
He panders to rednecks.
He panders to poor whites, telling them that these "Mexicans" are their enemy and have come to take their jobs and to rape their women.
He is a demagogue in the style of Huey Long.
He is a demagogue in the style of Father Coughlin.
He is a demagogue in the style of Joe McCarthy.
I'd continue but would probably be moderated out by Godwin's Law.
This is a man who peddles fear. Nothing else.
19
Of course he is pandering-to the extremist right.
8
"...doesn't pander to anyone." Surely you jest!
Trump only panders to the 25% of Republican voters driven by a fear and dislike of foreigners. His statements are often contradictory and lack any supporting analysis of the facts.
Ironically, Red state economies are some of the most highly dependent on 'illegal' labor. You cannot get a house built, painted, cleaned or otherwise cared for here in Atlanta were it not for the illegals that live on the margins. Just the threat of an immigration crackdown nearly shutdown the poultry industry in the south three years ago. As governor of Florida, Jeb had to PANDER to donors in the largest sectors of the state's economy: hospitality, construction, citrus, tomato and dairy industries. These donors would not let him even consider cracking down on illegal labor.
When it comes to 'illegals', we have eaten more than we can throw up.
Trump only panders to the 25% of Republican voters driven by a fear and dislike of foreigners. His statements are often contradictory and lack any supporting analysis of the facts.
Ironically, Red state economies are some of the most highly dependent on 'illegal' labor. You cannot get a house built, painted, cleaned or otherwise cared for here in Atlanta were it not for the illegals that live on the margins. Just the threat of an immigration crackdown nearly shutdown the poultry industry in the south three years ago. As governor of Florida, Jeb had to PANDER to donors in the largest sectors of the state's economy: hospitality, construction, citrus, tomato and dairy industries. These donors would not let him even consider cracking down on illegal labor.
When it comes to 'illegals', we have eaten more than we can throw up.
12
Inasmuch as Mr. Trump basically knows all thing already (even if he does not want to spill the details for various reasons) I do not think he actually can learn anything new. I believe that an advanced alien race is transmitting this knowledge directly to his brain but I can be more specific about it without giving too much away!
7
I suspect that Mr. Trump will miss the sarcasm and genuinely embrace the idea of a North Korean style border. "You're hired!"
16
Darn it! Mr. Kelly has introduced a note of reality about the border with Mexico and our relationship with the people who live in Mexico. Of course, Mr. Trump's world view is so much simpler and easier to grasp - forget the unintended consequences. If it feels good do it.
2
The Great Spirit dug a trench thousands of miles wide, filled it with unpotable water, and then erected barriers in the Appalachian and Rocky ranges. Still the illegals came and overspread the land.
62
The didn't just "come," they conquered it by the strength of arms. God bless their souls!
Great piece…insightful...chock full of common sense…and there lies the crux of the matter when dealing with the bloviator and his followers….
6
Another border that works is Israel's border with Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Egypt. What really matters is political will, and the only US politician that has that will is Mr Trump.
21
Missed the satirical tone of the editorial did you?
16
I read the same idea on a comment in another editorial. I would question whether the fence in Israel has worked all that well. Seems to me it has exacerbated tensions, particularly in the Palestinian areas where it has impoverished and marginalized an entire population. Lots of rockets are coming in from Gaza. As settlements continue to be built and families with generations of ties to land are pushed out, anger and frustration mount. That anger and frustration will find an outlet that is often ugly.
3
Sounds like a great model. Then we can periodically invade Mexico at great loss in military and civilian lives while dodging rockets, missiles and the occasional handheld grenade. Thanks for theae helpful insights on developing a positive relationship with our neighbors that encourages responsible immigration and trade.
8
Build the wall already. It was supposed to be done under Reagan. It was supposed to be done under Bush II.
The drug cartels are tunnelling too. They are now involved not just in drugs, but human smuggling.
The single biggest issue in America today is illegal immigration. The former Mexican ambassador said we have 30 million illegals in this country. So everyone uses that phony 11 million figure, like it is fact. It is 3 times as much.
Enough already.
The drug cartels are tunnelling too. They are now involved not just in drugs, but human smuggling.
The single biggest issue in America today is illegal immigration. The former Mexican ambassador said we have 30 million illegals in this country. So everyone uses that phony 11 million figure, like it is fact. It is 3 times as much.
Enough already.
30
Perhaps you missed the sarcasm in this article.
14
I realize that facts are hard things to swallow, but you might want to consider just two facts (look them up if you don't believe me): (1) illegal border crossings from Mexico during the Obama administration are about 1/2 of what they were under George W. Bush; (2) the number of persons deported under the Obama administration is almost double that under George W. Bush.
16
The single biggest issue in America, if you ask me, is how the super rich (corporations, oligarchs), benefiting from this country's 99% of schnooks to support and bail them out when they misbehave, hide their obscene profits in off-shore accounts - to avoid paying their fair share of taxes.
Illegal aliens are the salt of the earth, capable of wonderful things; it's grotesque to blame them for the rot that is infecting our country by corruption, abetted by the Republican Party, and scaring the ignoramuses of their base that the sky is falling.
Illegal aliens are the salt of the earth, capable of wonderful things; it's grotesque to blame them for the rot that is infecting our country by corruption, abetted by the Republican Party, and scaring the ignoramuses of their base that the sky is falling.
20
Has the American political system degenerated to the extent that loud ignoramuses can now hog all of media time, with, alas, an important but uneducated segment of the population thoughtlessly cheering them on? What has happened to the Enlightenment that this country was built on? Yet I do not despair, as Americans always recover the fortitude needed to rise above these temporary political aberrations and make rational decisions in solving the country's dilemmas.
51
"Always"? I don't think so.
7
You're entirely too optimistic about America "rising to the occasion." In the 20+ candidates seeking to be president, there are perhaps half a dozen who have anything like the necessary abilities.... and probably only Hillary will survive.... the worst of the 6. Alas.
5
The jury is still out on whether we as a nation will be able to rise above the current petty provincialism of our politicians (and many voters) and rationally solve our country's problems.
9
Donald Trump is a joke, and those who have fallen for his schtick are nothing more than fools. As the writer makes plain, if Trump's vague, nonsensical plan were actually to be realized it would not only fundamentally change our relationship with one of our closest trading partners, it would require the United States to become a completely different nation.
112
You are right Brad, but illegal immigration into Mexico is a felony under Mexican law, I am sure that Mexico would understand our desire to enforce our own laws if this enforcement was not accompanied by insults. My own experience of Latinos is that they are almost uniformly nicer than Anglos (sorry Anglos, some of you ARE nice).
One paradox about the US is that Latinos who are legally in the US are treated worse than those who are here illegally. For obvious pragmatic reasons. The ones who are here illegally are a potential vote bank for the Democrats and a cheap labor bank for businesses which are no doubt mostly Republican.
But Hispanics who are here legally are subject to any amount of harassment from the INS. Just recently I had a Latino friend who had a paper accepted to a European conference. But, while she is in the US legally, she was not sure she would be allowed back if she left the US. So what did she do? She did not go and did not give her talk.
Are we a crazy nation or what?
One paradox about the US is that Latinos who are legally in the US are treated worse than those who are here illegally. For obvious pragmatic reasons. The ones who are here illegally are a potential vote bank for the Democrats and a cheap labor bank for businesses which are no doubt mostly Republican.
But Hispanics who are here legally are subject to any amount of harassment from the INS. Just recently I had a Latino friend who had a paper accepted to a European conference. But, while she is in the US legally, she was not sure she would be allowed back if she left the US. So what did she do? She did not go and did not give her talk.
Are we a crazy nation or what?
8
In my reveries, the Trump campaign bus takes a wrong turn and ends up in Calexico.
Of course, the local Mexicans turn out to be far different from the mean-spirited wretches to whom Trump appeals. They welcome the Donald, and the little children giggle as they touch his hair.
Of course, the local Mexicans turn out to be far different from the mean-spirited wretches to whom Trump appeals. They welcome the Donald, and the little children giggle as they touch his hair.
61
As the drug cartels behead and disembowel him.
8
In my reveries the little children giggle and see the Donald as a piñata.
13
Donald Trump has said that he will make the US a great nation if he became president. Was US not a great nation before? Has it lost its glory? What is the definition of "Great"? How Trump will make US a great nation - he should list out the steps. Trump's definition of "Great" - we are eager to know.
35
He'll change the name to TRUMP-ISTAN
9
This is a very funny piece, but the Korean DMZ is far too narrow to serve as a model for fortifying the US border with Mexico. A Trump junket to the Great Wall of China would give a much better idea of the trillion-dollar, century-spanning task ahead.
106
This column contains just the right mix of serious analysis and sardonic comment to highlight the vicious absurdity of Trump's 'proposal.' His approach converts a country important to the economic well-being of the U.S. into a pariah whose nefarious intentions toward us we must thwart at all costs. The cost of rendering the border completely secure, as Mr. Kelly makes clear, is far higher, in every respect, than any benefit that might accrue from it.
Even without winning the election, Trump is harming the interests of the U.S. His attitude attracts enough support to drive other candidates to the right on this issue. It is wholly childish to suppose that the people of Mexico remain unaware of the insults inflicted on them by the participants in the campaign circus currently on tour here. Even if a moderate on the immigration issue wins the election, relations between the two countries will have been tarnished. As the 19th century dictator, Porfirio Diaz, is supposed to have said, "Poor Mexico. So far from God and so close to the United States."
Even without winning the election, Trump is harming the interests of the U.S. His attitude attracts enough support to drive other candidates to the right on this issue. It is wholly childish to suppose that the people of Mexico remain unaware of the insults inflicted on them by the participants in the campaign circus currently on tour here. Even if a moderate on the immigration issue wins the election, relations between the two countries will have been tarnished. As the 19th century dictator, Porfirio Diaz, is supposed to have said, "Poor Mexico. So far from God and so close to the United States."
169
James,
are you assuming Mexicans are more stupid than us?
They understand our problem with illegals just as well, which is why they guard their southern border much tighter than we do our.
are you assuming Mexicans are more stupid than us?
They understand our problem with illegals just as well, which is why they guard their southern border much tighter than we do our.
This commentary is just picking at the details. The author doesn't address the main point of Trump's principles on immigration that it puts Americans first.
All candidates should follow his lead and say that their policy will put Americans first. Then those who disagree with Trump should explain how uncontrolled immigration (from only the South) is good for America and Americans.
This contradiction is very inconvenient for the liberal press. Trump's campaign is not dependent on money from rich employers, so he is free to say what he likes. He took a position that appeals to most Americans. Most Americans think uncontrolled immigration is not good for America and Americans.
The scandal here is that in a democracy we have such a dysfunctional government that only Trump is saying what the majority wants to hear.
All candidates should follow his lead and say that their policy will put Americans first. Then those who disagree with Trump should explain how uncontrolled immigration (from only the South) is good for America and Americans.
This contradiction is very inconvenient for the liberal press. Trump's campaign is not dependent on money from rich employers, so he is free to say what he likes. He took a position that appeals to most Americans. Most Americans think uncontrolled immigration is not good for America and Americans.
The scandal here is that in a democracy we have such a dysfunctional government that only Trump is saying what the majority wants to hear.
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What "majority" are you talking about? All polls of a cross-section of America show that the majority of Americans favor a sane immigration policy that includes a path to citizenship for immigrants who have lived in this country and been productive members of society for years. You cite the myth of "uncontrolled immigration" to justify your and Trump's xenophobia, despite the fact that we have already built fences and walls, doubled the number of Border Patrol agents and deported more people under the Obama Presidency than at any time in our history. But, people like you never let the facts get in the way of your baseless assertions.
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Americans are hiring them first. That's why they come.
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When our "machine" was pumping along and spitting out prosperity for most of those complaining at present, the "illegals" among us were unnoticed in their unheated and uncooled shacks along the margins of our agricultural lands. Do your work and go "home"; come back when we need you again, repeat year in and out.
Follow the money, OTB, wouldn't you get tired of such a system and such treatment. Wouldn't you want more for your family.
What if our institutions recognized our responsibility to these "migrants" and offered them citizenship pathways-- we could have had a much control over "immigration" as we wanted.
It's like watching a dormant wasp nest wake up to attack. Americans could have and still could do better than this.
Follow the money, OTB, wouldn't you get tired of such a system and such treatment. Wouldn't you want more for your family.
What if our institutions recognized our responsibility to these "migrants" and offered them citizenship pathways-- we could have had a much control over "immigration" as we wanted.
It's like watching a dormant wasp nest wake up to attack. Americans could have and still could do better than this.
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This is a silly article which does the NYT no credit and seems to have no point, except to suggest how tight the Korean DMZ is and how far Donald Trump would have to go in perfecting a US/Mexico barrier to match. Is that to say that such a barrier is impossible, or more plausible and far milder versions would not improve our border security? The article doesn't say (though it implies opposition to beefed up border security), because it is too focused on being clever and snarky rather than in the least bit analytical or informative. (Confession: I also am a retired Foreign Service Officer and I detest Donald Trump, but I dislike sloppy writing and unfocused logic.)
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The New York Times declared war on the Republican Party in the 1880's and has not let up since, so "sloppy writing and unfocused logic" is what you get when you abandon journalism in favor of partisanship. N.B. I'm an independent.
Marc (and Phil Z) I think this article serves its purpose - perhaps a bit satirical but, to the point, do we REALLY want to resemble in any way North Korea, East Germany, or any other repressive wall-building nation? No, we arent North Korea.
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Isn't it funny Marc, how eager people are to take cheap shots at a TV character, just to run away from the common sense idea of guarding their country's borders and protecting its sovereignty.
If I want to live in Mexico I can move there, I don't need Mexico in my town. How hard is it to understand?
If I want to live in Mexico I can move there, I don't need Mexico in my town. How hard is it to understand?
this is a totally nonsensical comparision. the U.S. isn't south korea, mexico isn't north korea and our relationship with mexico is not all similar to the north korean-south korea relationship. there is no basis whatever for relating Trump (i.e. Republican) proposal to the DMZ in korea (or to the berlin wall or the great wall of china or even the wall the israelis have constructed and the barriers in northern ireland). constructing walls between countries and peoples in military conflict is totally irrelevant to constructing a wall between mexico and the U.S. and none of the aforementioned walls was constructed in order to deal wth the situation that exists along our border with mexico. in fact, i would guess that the Trump wall would be less effective than any of these other walls of separation. but we won't know that until we try it.
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Is the concept of satire totally foreign to you?
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The Donald is simply providing unambiguous " faux policy proposals" that have great appeal to those who support such delusional solutions to complex national problems in the name of liberty, and even more ironically, in support of the Constitution. In the future, he'll be rolling out more of the same, and those of us who are entertained by such nonsense can observe the rest of the Republican presidential contenders, who have to respond to him and his growing number of followers, as these candidates figure out just where they'll take a position on the " scale of crazy." Hard to tell just how his reality show will end, but end it will as someone or some circumstance will not doubt torpedo this ever inflating gas bag.
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Well put, even if the analogy is disturbingly accurate and close to home, so to speak.
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A much better example is the very effective and entirely humane borders that Israel maintains -- near 100% success rate at keeping out illegal immigrants and very few problems associated with them. That is a much more relevant role model for the USA and other western countries in designing working border controls.
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"Entirely humane"? I don't think so.
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Near 100%, where did that number come from?
When you just make stuff up, it invalidates your position.
fwa
When you just make stuff up, it invalidates your position.
fwa
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Speaking of borders, ask the member states of the European Union how the dismantling of borders worked for them. It is the same dynamic, move to the greener side of the fence and let others take care of you.
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Trump learn? Really?
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I bet the Border Patrol Agent (despicted in the photo), is a direct descent from illegal immigrants. Some of my family that enter illegally their children became Border Patrol Agents.
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