This is just plain sick and disgusting. As a former jail administrator for 20 years, I can tell you that this kind of perverted, illegal torture of helpless individuals must be met with severe prosecution. Who do these clowns think they are to use their almost unlimited power against inmates like this? I hope the guilty ones end up on the other side of the bars.
4
more evidence that these united states of america are descending at a free-fall into totalitarianism and barbarity.
2
You certainly have to know why these things happen. Supposed civlization is a farce, the U.S., the country that supposedly should be leading the world in decency due to it's civil freedoms, in reality is sometimes as barbaric as the Middle East. Waterboarding? Isn't that something they do at,like, Guantánamo? Gimme a break. We'll have a long time waiting for peace in the world if those who lead it resort to these antics. Why should innocent prisoners (no joke intended) be subject to the punishment supposed to be doled out to others?
1
As I stated I was a Youth Correctional Counselor for the Department of Juvenile Justice in California
And I am going to publicly come clean
1) I read every guy's file on my caseload not so I could understand him better and develop treatment strategies.
2) I set up short term and long term goals and help them develop steps to reach them
3) I held mock job interviews to help them prepare for the real thing. We evaluated their performance and helped turn negative into positives
4) I taught them to do's and don'ts of an interview. how to speak
5) I would bring in newspapers from their city 2-3 months before parole so they could start looking for a job. If they found one, we'd sent out a contact letter and if we got a favorable response I'd set up a phone interview
6) I taught them tolerance and accepting others differences
7) I taught them how to find a safe place to live and what to look for
8) I taught them how to budget
9) I helped them develop a solid support group BEFORE parole.
10) I bought them their favorite fast food on their birthday
11) I'd buy 10 pies from Baker's Square as my Christmas present.
There are a lot of great, caring people who sacrifice everything because they understand what's at stake. When guys make it? You can't understand how much that means to each of us. All that hard work paid off. For those of you who think we go there just to victimize them? I would tell you to go to hell but you're already their, you just don't know it. And you deserve it
And I am going to publicly come clean
1) I read every guy's file on my caseload not so I could understand him better and develop treatment strategies.
2) I set up short term and long term goals and help them develop steps to reach them
3) I held mock job interviews to help them prepare for the real thing. We evaluated their performance and helped turn negative into positives
4) I taught them to do's and don'ts of an interview. how to speak
5) I would bring in newspapers from their city 2-3 months before parole so they could start looking for a job. If they found one, we'd sent out a contact letter and if we got a favorable response I'd set up a phone interview
6) I taught them tolerance and accepting others differences
7) I taught them how to find a safe place to live and what to look for
8) I taught them how to budget
9) I helped them develop a solid support group BEFORE parole.
10) I bought them their favorite fast food on their birthday
11) I'd buy 10 pies from Baker's Square as my Christmas present.
There are a lot of great, caring people who sacrifice everything because they understand what's at stake. When guys make it? You can't understand how much that means to each of us. All that hard work paid off. For those of you who think we go there just to victimize them? I would tell you to go to hell but you're already their, you just don't know it. And you deserve it
4
Thank you for humanizing others. It is only in doing that, we humanize ourselves.
1
Really? The media loves covering stories where law enforcement committed abuse, but reluctantly cover stories where the abuse is turned around. So sad.
Put them in prison in the general population. Could be the end of their story.
1
I'm sure every single person still in the prison is innocent!
1
Remember how Andrew Cuomo scuttled the investigation into corruption in his administration? It will be interesting to see what he does with this "investigation."
4
Why do you believe them and why should I care.
1
Someone posted a comment where they asked if the "guards" were taken into a closet and beaten to find out what they knew and you gave them the NYTimes atta boy.
Really? So you advocate vigilante justice correct? And here I thought a defendant had the right to have counsel present during questioning. Miranda v Arizona
You allow this person to advocate the commission of a felony to gather information? Wow Can you please tell me when this person received due process? Was their attorney , not present during this beating, given the right to challenge the admissibility of evidence during the discovery phase? Can the authors please tell me discovery took place? Was this guard able to present witnesses on his behalf? Able to cross examine hostile witnesses? Was he tried by a jury of his peers after receiving instructions by the judge?
If they were guilty let the system try them. What you allowed to be posted was disgusting. You're basically promoting vigilante justice. Why have a system if we're going to take it upon ourselves to exact justice.
Go ahead and take him in the closet and beat his brains in to get what you want. Then you are no better and you will be, I guarantee you...1) facing criminal charges (2) federal civil rights charges (3) civil suits. So if all of that is worth it to you take someone in the "blind" as we call it and tune them up. I guarantee you if it were me the next time we'd met it would be in a court room.. Count on it. Print this!!!!
Really? So you advocate vigilante justice correct? And here I thought a defendant had the right to have counsel present during questioning. Miranda v Arizona
You allow this person to advocate the commission of a felony to gather information? Wow Can you please tell me when this person received due process? Was their attorney , not present during this beating, given the right to challenge the admissibility of evidence during the discovery phase? Can the authors please tell me discovery took place? Was this guard able to present witnesses on his behalf? Able to cross examine hostile witnesses? Was he tried by a jury of his peers after receiving instructions by the judge?
If they were guilty let the system try them. What you allowed to be posted was disgusting. You're basically promoting vigilante justice. Why have a system if we're going to take it upon ourselves to exact justice.
Go ahead and take him in the closet and beat his brains in to get what you want. Then you are no better and you will be, I guarantee you...1) facing criminal charges (2) federal civil rights charges (3) civil suits. So if all of that is worth it to you take someone in the "blind" as we call it and tune them up. I guarantee you if it were me the next time we'd met it would be in a court room.. Count on it. Print this!!!!
1
I'll never forget the live report by a Fox reporter on the street outside the prison following the escape. In the background you see someone crossing the street with a package, heading for the prison wall. A rope descends, the person ties the package to the rope, and it's pulled up. Later, it was discovered that this was how lunch was normally delivered to the guards in the guard towers. And this is suppose to be a high security prison? I hope there are consequences for the prison staff and officials who assaulted these inmates. Let's see if Cuomo is tough enough to take on the union representing these thug guards. I'm not going to hold my breath.
4
Addendum to my pub. article on Gov. Cuomo and his cravenness with regard to allegations of extreme mistreatment of detainees by prison personnel following the escapee of two lifers. When Cuomo waxed sarcastic and immediately skeptical, while the guards were present, of Patrick Alexander's claim of being beaten up, he made it even worse for Alexander and fellow prisoners.C's skepticism was equivalent to endorsing the guards' misconduct, as evidenced by the transfer of some detainees to other prisons, loss of privileges, and assignment to solitary confinement.Cuomo handled himself as well as the late Nelson Rockefeller, necessary differences being observed, handled the uprising at ATTICA in 1972. Among other character flaws, Cuomo lacks compassion for others, and the one time when he could have shown a degree of MORAL courage in standing up to his own bureaucracy,and promising a full investigation into the charges, he failed to do so.Politically speaking, CUOMO is on a treadmill to oblivion, and deservedly so.
'
'
3
So these so-called "correctional officers" tortured prisoners like in Guantanomo Bay, had their good time revoked and shipped them to various solitary confinements in other prisons. If this isn't fascism I don't know what it is ! If it isn't, those responsible should be prosecuted and sentenced to prison and the prisoners should receive all of their good time back, plus released. Additionally, these prisoners should receive a substantial monetary award from the state that will help them reintegrate back into the community. Otherwise, this is just fascism, plain and simple.
2
Clearly, this does not come from the Intersection of Happy and Healthy.
I toured Sing Sing in July. Michael Capra, superintendent there holds the Honor Block program up as one that works. Men going for a college or Master's degree usually come from the Honor block. The recidivism rate for those prisoners is between 0% and 0.1%. They cook their own food, there is an air of dignity markedly less violence and their recidivism rate is a lot lower. They work hard to get into Honor Block (3 year waiting list) and stay there. How do you balance punishment with returning guys to live as honest members of society? That's Capra goal. Programs like this are a start. Also, Capra has a beef with the camera system. It's ancient and sparsely placed. Instead of sending him more guns, dogs and barbed wire, he'd rather an updated system that can be accessed by him and his CO's even if he is at home. It would be safer for the prisoners and the CO's. Why don't they have this? "Money." Capra has been at this a long time. The CO's are family, and when someone isn't right, they are weeded out pretty quickly because they endanger everyone. The idea that Dannemora is shutting down their Honor Block and penalizing the men who lived there because of several rogue CO's is shooting society in the foot. To not have working camera systems is absurd. To read my blog post, A Look Inside Sing Sing, go to https://www.facebook.com/CClarkCriscuolo.
It expounds on many of the problems. Are you listening Gov. Cuomo?
It expounds on many of the problems. Are you listening Gov. Cuomo?
4
My contact with the wrong side of the law is close to zero, but if I were sentenced to life in prison, I can assure you that I would try to escape. The job of the prison system is to stop such attempts from becoming realities.
In this case, a bunch of careless, inept, or criminal prison employees failed, and are taking out their rage on a bunch of caged people who are completely at their mercy. I hope justice prevails and the prisoners regain their privileges. Whether they knew or heard anything is moot if they were not personally involved. And prosecute any guards who were involved in this abuse.
In this case, a bunch of careless, inept, or criminal prison employees failed, and are taking out their rage on a bunch of caged people who are completely at their mercy. I hope justice prevails and the prisoners regain their privileges. Whether they knew or heard anything is moot if they were not personally involved. And prosecute any guards who were involved in this abuse.
5
Careless, inept AND criminal employees.
3
If other inmates heard and reported, they are damned {simply because of the snitch culture endemic to prisons). Similarly, if they did not report, they are meted out a similar fate of brutality. Truly another take of the "robber's dilemma".
If what this article purports is accurate, then at the very least, disciplinary actions against the prison establishment is a must.
If what this article purports is accurate, then at the very least, disciplinary actions against the prison establishment is a must.
1
Worked in corrections for 20 years, and elsewhere in criminal justice for over 10 years. Right after escape it was obvious to me that escape was result of staff misfeasance, and possibly malfeasance. Inmates could not do what they did without these conditions being present.
And, yes, some officers go after inmates with a level of brutality, bred by a basic disrespect for inmates and belief that they cannot be caught. That is because of blue wall of silence which extends to virtually all staff and disinterest on the part of officials in really investigating incidents of abuse.
Sad state of affairs, and appears to be present nationwide.
Need to maintain large scale correctional systems containing critical mass of bad guys (maybe 25% of all inmates) makes it extremely difficult to change culture of prisons.
But we must try.
And, yes, some officers go after inmates with a level of brutality, bred by a basic disrespect for inmates and belief that they cannot be caught. That is because of blue wall of silence which extends to virtually all staff and disinterest on the part of officials in really investigating incidents of abuse.
Sad state of affairs, and appears to be present nationwide.
Need to maintain large scale correctional systems containing critical mass of bad guys (maybe 25% of all inmates) makes it extremely difficult to change culture of prisons.
But we must try.
5
I used to think that "The Shawshank Redemption" was only fiction. Now I wonder.
1
The following quote is attributed to Dostoevsky: "The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons".
It is hard to get across that dignity is contagious as is the lack thereof. When we humiliate, we lower ourselves, we transform ourselves for the worse. This report makes me glad people are on the ground to give some degree of legal and expressive protection and that the Times is reporting it. But it is saddening and disturbing. And part of that is the assumption that any people--here prisoners--are less than human and are automatically to blame.
And the apology from Governor Cuomo?
It is hard to get across that dignity is contagious as is the lack thereof. When we humiliate, we lower ourselves, we transform ourselves for the worse. This report makes me glad people are on the ground to give some degree of legal and expressive protection and that the Times is reporting it. But it is saddening and disturbing. And part of that is the assumption that any people--here prisoners--are less than human and are automatically to blame.
And the apology from Governor Cuomo?
5
Behavior not worthy of the human race.
2
I'm sure it's standard operating procedure that after an escape, they reassign prisoners so as to break up the familiarity and comfort level that might invade those cozy set ups that develop like that honor block. And dare I say it? Women - civilians and guards working in close situations with make inmates are vulnerable not only to violence but to seduction. Most correction officers are good persons, but you cannot discount a career long exposure to the worst elements in our society without degradation to the soul , mind and heart. One must be particularly strong to resist the emotional corruption that can cause some to rationalize what they have to do. I'm sure there are some who get off on bully clubbing a handcuffed inmate because they are no good, but that is the exception not the rule - except when the leadership looks the other way. As to the interrogations after the fact - yeah, that's central office hounding staff for detail because no doubt Cuomo is pounding his shoe on the desk because he wants answers and heads are gonna roll. The basic truth is, the inmates found their weak links and made the most of the mundane, boring daily routine that is prison. But I will say this, if you have to go to prison, NYS has a better penal and justice system and checks and balances. Not perfect , but rights are respected. Criminals really do bad things. Really bad things. Reform and keep a check on prisons. But don't think criminals aren't criminal. And Cuomo should go.
1
Sounds like the prison system/officials are criminals too. Another bureaucratic, expensive, failed system focused on low-wage correction jobs rather than rehabilitating the overwhelming majority of drug offenders who will return to society. Who is in charge here? Where's Cuomo?
3
Seems to me that prison personnel and the Governor have some questions to answer publicly. I believe a Federal investigation is warranted. Except for the disabled, I cannot think of anyone more than prisoners that can be secretly abused. Also, maybe the Governor will come to understand how his postures are interpreted and incorrectly and illegally acted upon by those around him when he gestures however. Stas
2
According to a DOCCS spokesperson in Albany, "The Department of Corrections said in a statement that its Office of Special Investigations has been investigating the allegations for several weeks ..."
This being the same office that botched the initial investigation regarding allegations of an inappropriate relationship between civilian employee Joyce Mitchell and inmates Richard Matt and David Sweat prior to their escape
does not give much confidence in the current investigation being conducted thoroughly.
Until changes are made at the executive level in Albany the Department of Correctional Services and Community Supervision will continue to have unresolved issues like this.
This being the same office that botched the initial investigation regarding allegations of an inappropriate relationship between civilian employee Joyce Mitchell and inmates Richard Matt and David Sweat prior to their escape
does not give much confidence in the current investigation being conducted thoroughly.
Until changes are made at the executive level in Albany the Department of Correctional Services and Community Supervision will continue to have unresolved issues like this.
5
Surely none of these sterling individuals are, you know, LYING.
5
If they had much to gain from lying, I might wonder, too. But it's not like they'll get out of jail by calling attention to the fact they were beaten.
Seems to me they might just want to not be, you know, BEATEN.
Seems to me they might just want to not be, you know, BEATEN.
4
If cutting-away sounds were audible, prisoners would hardly report them, because snitches get killed. Prison culture justice--no exceptions.
What were security guards doing all the while? The dummies who punched Alexander took care to avoid identification and will never likely be fired.
How did Matt and Sweat get construction drawings or information on a likely escape route? Were construction drawings on file at the county public works office? Not likely.
Matt and Sweat had friends on the prison staff. Are all identified?
What were security guards doing all the while? The dummies who punched Alexander took care to avoid identification and will never likely be fired.
How did Matt and Sweat get construction drawings or information on a likely escape route? Were construction drawings on file at the county public works office? Not likely.
Matt and Sweat had friends on the prison staff. Are all identified?
2
Within the last 5 years I’ve had experiences I wished the American public as a whole were able to witness. Many would condemn me, because I have broken the law by possessing controlled substances. But because I have not endangered nor hurt anyone, nor have I stolen nor damaged anyone’s property, and because I am not unusual at all – people who have broken the law but have harmed no one experience the same sorts of things every day -the U.S. would perhaps again become a place where actual justice is possible if the public learned the truth about what the “justice system” has become. I realize this article involves prisoners whose crimes are not victimless. But what I’ve learned is that large swaths of our police forces, prison guards and some enablers who work in administrative roles have themselves become criminals, albeit untried and thus un-convicted. The oft repeated claim that it’s “just a few bad apples” is simply untrue. Their crimes are also not victimless. When those who have taken oaths to uphold the law disregard it, secure in the knowledge that they are de facto above the law and need only pay lip service to respecting it on the rare occasion that media ask questions it is to be expected that the kinds of things detailed in this story will be common occurrence. The only way to end the commonplace miscarriage of justice is for civilian review boards of police and prisons to be established and empowered to overrule the administrators, police chiefs, etc.
6
“Must have kept you awake with all that cutting, huh?” Mr. Cuomo asked, according to video of the exchange. Then, Mr. Alexander said, the governor “gave me his best tough-guy stare and walked off.”
Sad to say this paragraph fits in with my image of Governor Cuomo as Head Bully. I've no doubt Cuomo, if he'd been a prison guard, would've partici-
pated, happily, in the physical abuse inflicted on the prisoners. Why should prison guards/officials be expected to behave any better than our Governor?
Sad to say this paragraph fits in with my image of Governor Cuomo as Head Bully. I've no doubt Cuomo, if he'd been a prison guard, would've partici-
pated, happily, in the physical abuse inflicted on the prisoners. Why should prison guards/officials be expected to behave any better than our Governor?
6
The prison guards acted like goons who needed to find scapegoats - the prisoners - to deflect from their own incompetency.
Perhaps the guards should have been threatening and beating each other rather than the prisoners.
Of course, they probably took their lead from the governor. Did he green light the beatings? Did he give tacit approval? Did he condone the beatings?
Perhaps the guards should have been threatening and beating each other rather than the prisoners.
Of course, they probably took their lead from the governor. Did he green light the beatings? Did he give tacit approval? Did he condone the beatings?
5
Let's see if I understand this. The guards fail to do their jobs and then take out their embarrassment on the prisoners who did not do anything wrong. Good thing Andrew came to give a "tough guy" stare. Very helpful. What he should do know is give the entire prison that same stare and shut down this cesspool. While he is at it perhaps he could look in the mirror and give himself that tough stare. He created the environment where this took place, he muddied up the crime scene trying to get media coverage. The fish rots from the head down, Andy. Clown. Can't wait until you are gone, Mr. Tough Guy. LOLOLOL
7
Where's the real Cuomo when you need him? May he rest in peace.
2
As compensation to the abused inmates, time should come off their sentences or some sentences should be commuted. Then there should be a housecleaning and prosecutions at Clinton. That place is a disgrace.
15
The mentality of a bully is to shift responsibility for their mistakes on to the powerless. The DOC picked on these inmates because they could. They had to demonstrate power and control. Inmates no matter how bad or despicable they are are powerless to affect anything in their world. This escape was the fault of the DOC and nothing else.
2
The citizens of NY will have to bear the enormous cost of the manhunt and investigation because of the laziness and incompetence of these corrections officers. Would that we could submit the bill for those costs to those who were responsible for allowing the prisoners to escape.
2
Indeed, because the criminal escapees themselves bear no responsibility for their actions.
1
"Indeed, because the criminal escapees themselves bear no responsibility for their actions."
LOL. Okay, I guess we should bill David Sweat, then.
LOL. Okay, I guess we should bill David Sweat, then.
It keeps surprising me how bad conditions are in American prisons. Are actually American prisons any better than third world prisons? I've read accounts of prisoners in African prisons and while the physical condition of the building, food situation etc was worse it did not sound as violent as these American prisons.
I thought torturing on inmates was limited to suspected terrorists on Gitmo, Abu-Graib etc. I didn't realize that torture was conducted in regular prisons against regular inmates. What also surprise me about this is that he oversight can't be very good, given that from what I've seen in the comments this sort of thing happens frequently. I can't see any explanation for it happening frequently other than that prison guards normally don't have anything to fear from abusing prisoners.
I thought torturing on inmates was limited to suspected terrorists on Gitmo, Abu-Graib etc. I didn't realize that torture was conducted in regular prisons against regular inmates. What also surprise me about this is that he oversight can't be very good, given that from what I've seen in the comments this sort of thing happens frequently. I can't see any explanation for it happening frequently other than that prison guards normally don't have anything to fear from abusing prisoners.
Should have, would have, could have... but wasn't. The only thing that is:
America "the ugly."
America "the ugly."
...see...no wonder so many of us including me hate so called law enforcers (punks).
2
Smile or turn in ridicule as you like. Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité. Where is the spirit of Lafayette, seemingly long gone in the United States?
2
It appears that the Governor's attitude encouraged the guards here--as governor he should close this facility and subject all the guards to lie detector tests and conduct a thorough investigation, but as a former prosecutor it's clear what his attitude is. He's a poster child for why police today run wild and shoot without concern, and New York Democrats should be appalled at the monster that machine politics and nepotism has installed yet again on their throne...
7
I noticed PT from Ohio said guards made minimum wage. I live in the Dannemora area and these COs are paid a lot when you consider you only need a high school diploma.
This all sounds awful and it is, but will you ever see a NY Times story published from the CO point of view? Years ago, I had a CPR instructor from Dannemora living in doubt, waiting to see if he had AIDs because an inmate had flung blood at him. Unfortunately, most stories have 2 sides...
This all sounds awful and it is, but will you ever see a NY Times story published from the CO point of view? Years ago, I had a CPR instructor from Dannemora living in doubt, waiting to see if he had AIDs because an inmate had flung blood at him. Unfortunately, most stories have 2 sides...
2
Cuomo's imitation of Il Duce is beyond tiresome. This should be the last time he ever holds public office.
12
Hey! In Italy the trains ran on time and prisoners didn't hack and seduce their way out of jail.
/s/
Benito
/s/
Benito
Good. They obviously deserved it. How could such a noise generating fiasco go unnoticed. ??
What is worse are the NYS employees who were complicit and will escape free and still receive their enormous pensions and guaranteed health care.
The prison still has room for more "Clients" and many of them are already working?? there and should be sentenced to staying over at night for many years.
What is worse are the NYS employees who were complicit and will escape free and still receive their enormous pensions and guaranteed health care.
The prison still has room for more "Clients" and many of them are already working?? there and should be sentenced to staying over at night for many years.
When did NY state start aspiring to become Texas?
9
First of all the inmates seemed credible in my view. Secondly, the entire correctional system in the United States needs to be reformed and downsized. This includes how we house inmates. Cages/cells; solitary confinement is archaic and outdated. Inmates breaking laws and raping other inmates should not be tolerated. Racial segregation of housing inmates; gang violence should not be tolerated. The Parole system needs to be changed too. And our judicial system of long term sentencing needs reform and uniformity. And we have data proving race decides length of sentencing. We have to many non-violent inmates that should not be locked up. Rehabilitation should be a process undertaking before considering incarceration. Our society has become so violent in recent years because so many of our citizens are brutalized in prisons and bringing that culture into everyday American lifestyles. Nowadays, violence is becoming a way of dealing with conflict in society because of the two million are more of our citizens in and out of our correctional systems where barbarism is the norm.
8
Why do I not believe any of this? Seems like it would really be a foolish thing for a prison to do when it had already been reported they were very bad at doing things by the rules. I'm sure though many that read this will believe it as fact. After all it was in the NYT's. They will never erase it form their minds that way even if it's proven it's a sham. We wonder what's wrong with us that may be the answer?
3
Didn't anybody ever tell you people that crime doesn't pay? That means the life of a prisoner is not easy. It's ridiculous what a nanny society we've become. What should we do? Ask the prisoners if they feel like chatting? Offer warm hugs after the trauma of the escape? I want my kids to fear prison and it's lifestyle, not just other prisoners but everything about it.
2
Recently reported that the Irish court refused to permit a terrorist prisoner to be extradited to the U.S. because of America's cruel and inhumane prison. That decision related to the "supermax" in Coloroado, but stories like this one will not do much to enhance our standing in the opinion of civilized Western nations.
10
Ireland in fact released this terrorist, making it in my view a state sponsor of terrorism.
No mention of medical treatment of prisoners injuries or medical personnel being questioned?
6
Before anyone comments on any of the guards here you should understand a few things...
1. Inmates in this jail and nearly all jails are master manipulators and lie everywhere they can to get whatever they can. Look at the lies that got Joyce Mitchell where she is and she believed all of it. They would have killed her had she picked them up.
2. Look to nys laws about the inmates rights. Did you know (CO's) they are not allowed to shine lights in cells if they are sleeping, they are only allowed to visually see if someone is the bed. How many kids were able to sneak out of their home with the appearance of a body with pillows; socks filled to look like feet? Especially if not well lit.
3. Our society pays for these libraries and Internet access where prisoners look up a plethora of information including the psychology on how to manipulate and all about the devil....very comforting!
Now if everyone could get off their soapbox and quit preaching about the inmates rights...what rights should you have after killing someone or raping an innocent child? None! Hopefully this helps you sleep at night now you have preached to save and protect our country's absolute finest. At least make an attempt to educate yourselves on what right inmates have...because they have them all!
Kudos to believing this story because you are the reason criminals are so successful!
1. Inmates in this jail and nearly all jails are master manipulators and lie everywhere they can to get whatever they can. Look at the lies that got Joyce Mitchell where she is and she believed all of it. They would have killed her had she picked them up.
2. Look to nys laws about the inmates rights. Did you know (CO's) they are not allowed to shine lights in cells if they are sleeping, they are only allowed to visually see if someone is the bed. How many kids were able to sneak out of their home with the appearance of a body with pillows; socks filled to look like feet? Especially if not well lit.
3. Our society pays for these libraries and Internet access where prisoners look up a plethora of information including the psychology on how to manipulate and all about the devil....very comforting!
Now if everyone could get off their soapbox and quit preaching about the inmates rights...what rights should you have after killing someone or raping an innocent child? None! Hopefully this helps you sleep at night now you have preached to save and protect our country's absolute finest. At least make an attempt to educate yourselves on what right inmates have...because they have them all!
Kudos to believing this story because you are the reason criminals are so successful!
5
I am not surprised at Gov. Cuomo's pusillanimous response to the allegations of mistreatment by Mr. Alexander and other inmates. Cuomo the quintessential liberal politician,clearly sided with the prison guards who had beaten Alexander and other inmates.Does this exemplify grace under pressure or cowardice? I always took the Cuomos for a family of "faux jetons," phonies and false populists.I think back to MARIO CUOMO's speech at the 1984 Dem, Nat. Convention when he spoke movingly of the plight of the poor and downtrodden, of two AMERICAS, one underprivileged and the other overprivileged. Was it illogical to assume that anyone who would give such a speech would, upon retirement from political life, go on to work for an ngo whose mission was to help[ the poor?"Mais non!" Following his retirement from politics the elder CUOMO bought himself a fancy house on Sutton Place and cultivated the friendship of wealthy clients, in other words, those belonging to the one percent. His son, who failed as an administrator of HUD, appointed by Clinton, is going nowhere politically. Nonetheless, the one time that he could have shown political courage by showing respect for Mr. Alexander and others also mistreated by the prison guards, he failed to do so. He took the path of least resistance. Shame on u , Gov. Cuomo.
5
Yes, NYT, these acts are torture. They go beyond abuse. Holding a plastic bag over someone's head and cutting off their air supply until they pass out to extract information seems to me to be the definition of torture. Hanging someone with a garbage bag until they lose consciousness also fits the definition. Beating someone who is handcuffed and shackled is as well. They threatened water boarding????
When are we going to acknowledge that a significant number of people who go into law enforcement/corrections do so to have power over others. And if they don't go into it seeking power, the inability to maintain perspective and not take policy or suspects/prisoners behavior personally, causes others to use their power to torture or abuse in order to take out their frustrations.
It is like the cop who tells a domestic violence victim that she will be arrested if she calls the police one more time. Not enough evidence to arrest the perp, so blame it on the victim and make her life worse. The point is that this is your job. There are codes of eithics/conduct. If you don't like repeat dv calls then get another job.
If you are not able to control your emotions and refrain from torturing/abusing people, get another job. Had the corrections officers not been sleeping on the job, they may have noticed the inmates' absence and they might have been apprehended sooner!!!
Convicts may be unreliable. But, multiple similar stories from many can't be baseless.
When are we going to acknowledge that a significant number of people who go into law enforcement/corrections do so to have power over others. And if they don't go into it seeking power, the inability to maintain perspective and not take policy or suspects/prisoners behavior personally, causes others to use their power to torture or abuse in order to take out their frustrations.
It is like the cop who tells a domestic violence victim that she will be arrested if she calls the police one more time. Not enough evidence to arrest the perp, so blame it on the victim and make her life worse. The point is that this is your job. There are codes of eithics/conduct. If you don't like repeat dv calls then get another job.
If you are not able to control your emotions and refrain from torturing/abusing people, get another job. Had the corrections officers not been sleeping on the job, they may have noticed the inmates' absence and they might have been apprehended sooner!!!
Convicts may be unreliable. But, multiple similar stories from many can't be baseless.
14
Judging from some (not all) of the comments saying that it was just the word of a few convicts or just a few COs, many people have obviously not read the searing report on the litany of abuses that have happened at Rikers over the years and are simply not very knowledgeable of the systemic problems at many U.S. prisons.
I have a relative who used to be a CO who left after being disgusted by overwork with inadequate pay and the consistent misconduct of some former colleagues as well as inappropriate relationships between some staff and inmates.
Anyone who believes that these abuses are rare and isolated needs to remove the rose colored lenses from their eyes.
I have a relative who used to be a CO who left after being disgusted by overwork with inadequate pay and the consistent misconduct of some former colleagues as well as inappropriate relationships between some staff and inmates.
Anyone who believes that these abuses are rare and isolated needs to remove the rose colored lenses from their eyes.
42
This is what happens when a large segment of our population believe that torture is both moral and effective as a technique for obtaining intelligence. Our constitution says it is wrong and both national and international laws say it is illegal. Cuomo and the prison people should be investigated and prosecuted.
11
While, admittedly, Shawshank Redemption is my favorite DVD and have probably watched it more than 100 times, upon reading the accounts of this article was as if I was reading accounts of the escape from the script of the final few scenes.
2
Governor Cuomo's comment to the inmate was astonishingly unprofessional and reveals to us that he is really just another bully, just like the cops who kill unarmed people for things like not putting on a turn signal. He jumped to a conclusion knowing just a few superficial facts of the escape; that's the way it is these days....Fire, aim, ready. Shoot first, ask questions later. Mr. Cuomo owes the inmate he was talking to an apology, and an apology (and compensation) to the physically abused inmates described in this article. Oh where have all the adults gone??
9
It seems that the corrections officers were trying to shift the blame for their own negligence onto the prisoners by beating and abusing prisoners to get someone to confess to having knowledge of the two escapees plans. While the prisoners are certainly not models of law abiding citizens they didn't deserve to be treated to beatings and possible suffocation. It is wrong and as a society we can't condone such actions. These officers need to be arrested, brought to trial and, if guilty, need to be punished.
10
Prisoners are treated like dogs by guards making minimum wage. No surprise the guards act like teenage bullies. With no training, supervision and incentive to manage the prisoner population, they fend for themselves by making the rules up as they go. What a total failure of prison management.
6
In New York State CO'S make very good money. I don't know about your state. This is NY. Stare jobs are not low paying . C. O.s make tge most. As much as union contraction workers. .and all the 9ver time they want.
There is a change in the air and it's not going to benefit anyone with a badge or a gun. We've witnessed ongoing abuses against PEOPLE who have lost any rights as a human when faced by a cop or guard. Well it's about time the tables where turned and the empathy we once showed police or guards is now replaced with rage and hate. Nice one but don't be upset if karma visits and DON'T look to public for help, EVER . . .
3
Who watches the watchmen - we need a present day Brubaker to go undercover and disclose the core of this rotten system.
The US has 5% of the world's population - but 25% of the world's prison population. No other country in this world incarcerates as many of its own citizens as the US of A. Not even China or Iran or North Korea.
This has to change.
The US has 5% of the world's population - but 25% of the world's prison population. No other country in this world incarcerates as many of its own citizens as the US of A. Not even China or Iran or North Korea.
This has to change.
6
Appalling. Antisocial convicts should experience civilized behavior on the part of governmental employees, not barbaric behavior. How do we expect to teach criminals to respect societal laws if officials break these laws? Every one of these abusive guards should not only be fired, but should themselves be incarcerated, and the supervising prison authority lose its contract for operating this prison.
6
Why does this not surprise me in the "land of the free" with the highest incarcerated population in the world. I say exchange the prisoners in the “honor block” for the abusive, doubly incompetent guards. See what it feels like.
Next, look within and stop accusing other countries of "human rights violations". Clean up your own act before pointing fingers at others.
“The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons.”
~ FYODOR DOSTOYEVSKY
Next, look within and stop accusing other countries of "human rights violations". Clean up your own act before pointing fingers at others.
“The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons.”
~ FYODOR DOSTOYEVSKY
9
It's ironic: there are always reasons to doubt the veracity of convicted criminals, so guards so inclined can usually abuse prisoners with impunity. We know about the research of Zimbardo, Milgram, etc. We know guards look incompetent and feel defeated and embarrassed when prisoners escape. Taken all together and in light of the consistency of the many prisoners' accounts, there is no good reason to doubt the veracity of these allegations. It's ironic.
4
Instead of prosecuting these prison guards, the State will probably just fire them and then the public will have to deal with these monsters with no jobs in their midst. Ugh!
1
It's as easy to become a corrections officer as it is to get a part time job at mcdonalds. It may be easier as prisons are always desperate for guards and will hire anybody with a pulse. Now you take somebody with no education/skills and put them in a position of power. It would be shocking if abuse didn't occur.
3
Anyone who has used a hacksaw know the sound it makes. No doubt that the inmates on each side of Sweat and Matt heard the sawing each night. But they are afraid of admitting it for fear of being labeled rats and subjected to being kiled by fellow inmates. But they alone could have stopped the escape plan from moving forward. And because there is a code of silence within cell blocks, all inmates must pay the price. The best protection from this is to not get sent to prison.
1
Actually the guards doing their job and Albany granting a complete lock down after a fight in the yard is what should have stopped the escape . The prisoners aren't on the tax payers' payroll, but the guards and Albany are!
Hi Curtis,
Actually, the inmate on the other side of Matt did complain of hearing the sound of sawing late at night. Matt explanation was that he was either stretching canvas for a painting or working on a frame.
Actually, the inmate on the other side of Matt did complain of hearing the sound of sawing late at night. Matt explanation was that he was either stretching canvas for a painting or working on a frame.
Good job NY Times!!!!!! I'm sure ALL the officers are scrambling around, thinking of excuses of what to say, probably that the inmates were unruly, and didn't listen to an order, OR the bruises on their body is because they slipped and fell..that's played out Guys! The show is over, the curtains are closed! It's about time the guards are the ones at fault and that its out in the open. What goes around comes around! I wouldn't want to be in your shoes..Tell me, do all of you sleep well at night after this went on? I hope not, but now you must be wide awake wondering if your name will be called for an investigation. GOOD FOR YOU!!!!!! And all of you involved, should bunk with all that you's abused.
4
This is a disgrace that could only happen in a system where prisoner abuse is the norm. I suspect this is true throughout our nation.
These prisoners are largely guilty, violent, and dangerous. They belong where they are. They are also completely at the mercy of their captors and should always be treated humanely. Even if they are monsters unfit for society.
Maltreatment of prisoners reflects poorly on our society. We know these things happen and accept them. Prison should be no cakewalk, but it should be an environment marked by discipline and professionalism. We are a world leading nation. We need to do better.
These prisoners are largely guilty, violent, and dangerous. They belong where they are. They are also completely at the mercy of their captors and should always be treated humanely. Even if they are monsters unfit for society.
Maltreatment of prisoners reflects poorly on our society. We know these things happen and accept them. Prison should be no cakewalk, but it should be an environment marked by discipline and professionalism. We are a world leading nation. We need to do better.
6
If it's proven that these sadistic beatings took place, the governor should do the right thing and resign. He ran around and took all the praise for the captures so he should take responsibility for these guards who were out of control and need to be fired. Do we see a national trend in the way a large minority of our law enforcement officers operate rogue.
14
The fact that is is how guards reacted is evidence that it's routine.
4
Any Prison is bad news. American prisons, this one at least sounds like third world. The USA is truly the land of the different. A rainbow from rights for seniors, work on bullying in class, though important, minor to what these people do; incredible.
2
All US prisons are 3rd world . Some 3rd world systems are better i.e. Costa Rica . Our justice system needs and overhaul . The problems have been documented and admitted for decades but most Americans do not care .
"Gov Cuomo gave me his best bad guy stare" How pathetic, right out of Shawshank Redemption. The Governor is a wuss, get me Judge Judy
2
Isn't it interesting how much the self proclaimed "Land of the Free" these days resembles the 3. Reich and/or the USSR?
5
Sounds like some of these screws will be spending a lot more time at work. Shameful story, great reporting.
3
Oh those poor murderers and rapists in jail. Whatever have they done to deserve such punishment ?
A society is clearly in decline when it pays great heed to those who seek to destroy it.
A society is clearly in decline when it pays great heed to those who seek to destroy it.
2
On a couple of occasions, The Times has likened Gov. Cuomo's grandstanding swagger after the escape at Dannemora (Gitmo? Abu Ghraib? Attica?) to the Tommy Lee Jones character, Deputy U.S. Marshal Samuel Gerard, in "The Fugitive." Which doesn't seem fair, especially now, since nowhere in that movie was there even the slightest abuse of anyone in custody.
This latest report by The Times shows once again that mistreatment of imprisoned human beings, whether by the state or federal government, is not only a moral abomination, but a recurring failure of leadership all the way to the top.
This latest report by The Times shows once again that mistreatment of imprisoned human beings, whether by the state or federal government, is not only a moral abomination, but a recurring failure of leadership all the way to the top.
8
No surprise then when an Irish court refuses to extradite an American for terrorism charges citing the very real chance he would end up at Colorado Super-Max, in 24/7 solitary, no visitors as un-befitting of human dignity and cruel, inhuman.
From the smallest jails to Super-Max, our ultra-violent society has created prisons that bring out the worst in both prisoners and guards.
The civilized world is appalled at our system.
So are most Americans. It must be overhauled, completely.
The macho posturing of Cuomo--to locked up men!-- is not an attitude that would helps any part of the equation.
When do we grow up and start to act like an advanced country re human rights and seriously reform our criminal justice system?
From the smallest jails to Super-Max, our ultra-violent society has created prisons that bring out the worst in both prisoners and guards.
The civilized world is appalled at our system.
So are most Americans. It must be overhauled, completely.
The macho posturing of Cuomo--to locked up men!-- is not an attitude that would helps any part of the equation.
When do we grow up and start to act like an advanced country re human rights and seriously reform our criminal justice system?
5
Convicts with too much time on their hands rolling the bones on a lawsuit payout after they decided exactly what their false narrative was going to be, nothing more. And the brains of the outfit also realized this particular narrative would readily push liberal, ACLU type buttons.
3
Oh yeah! All 60 of them cooked up the same narrative to tell the authorities; sure... That sounds perfectly plausible...lol
The instant these people took their positions as power, they were lost to evil.
Who cares about their pleading? Sack the ignorant, imprison the guilty.
Simple.
Who cares about their pleading? Sack the ignorant, imprison the guilty.
Simple.
1
Just out of curiosity, I checked to see if there is a Boy Scout Merit Badge available for "Prison Screw". I did not find one, but there is one one available for "Fingerprinting".
In what way is the United States of America not a criminal society?
Anyone who doubts this should turn on their TV, where they will see cop, cop, cop followed by lawyer, lawyer, lawyer.
We are what we view.
In what way is the United States of America not a criminal society?
Anyone who doubts this should turn on their TV, where they will see cop, cop, cop followed by lawyer, lawyer, lawyer.
We are what we view.
4
Just because an inmate says it's so doesn't make it so. There's way too many gullible people who believe everything they hear and read. Use your own brains if you have one.
2
Watch TV, and read the newspapers, if you have one.
It sounds like corrections officers aren't that much better than the violent men in their custody. Prison brutalizes inmates and guards alike.
16
No excuses for the guards.
The prison guards not only fail to perform their duties properly, but they also blame their failure on other inmates. Next thing, they will say the mistreated inmates are liars. These guards deserve a double punishment.
15
The escape didn't require Governor Cuomo's resignation, but the follow-up absolutely demands it.
13
As a former Corrections Officer in Texas at Ellis I Unit in the '90's...I would have that we'd come farther since then. It was a bad culture back then and I Guess it stayed the same. People get power over people and they can't help themselves. Terrible.
15
Most of the correction officers were blameless in the escapes and had no responsibility to investigate. Mistreatment of dozens of inmates by multiple uninvolved correction officers is what the inmates allege. This is possible but not necessarily likely.
2
2 things to consider. The FBI and state authorities were in charge of the search. The correction officers had no official role. So either the correction officers were acting on their own apart from the investigation or the FBI and the state were somehow involved
Second all the evidence comes from inmates and probably is not the gospel truth.
Second all the evidence comes from inmates and probably is not the gospel truth.
3
Except that the inmates have nothing to gain and nothing to lose with their "allegations" –maybe retaliation and more mistreatment from vengeful guards.
2
Who guards the guards?
16
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
One of the oldest questions ever asked.
One of the oldest questions ever asked.
4
Kind of like WHO oversees what the government employees do?????
Reading this article, it struck me that it is based solely on the testimony of a few convicts. Is that correct?
7
No, that's not correct. It's based on the testimony of many convicts. Moreover, it's consistent with what we already know about prison guards from other news reports from reliable sources.
11
I agree. Let's just say I'm more than a little skeptical about the veracity of these prisoners' accounts. After watching the Lock Up series on MSNBC, I have a hard time taking their stories at face value.
2
Read again: "In letters reviewed by The Times, as well as prison interviews, inmates described a strikingly similar catalog of abuses, including being beaten while handcuffed, choked and slammed against cell bars and walls.
"They were also subjected to harsh policies ordered by the State Department of Corrections and Community Supervision: Dozens of inmates, many of whom had won the right to live on the honor block after years of good behavior, were transferred out of Clinton to other prisons. Many were placed in solitary confinement, and stripped of privileges they had accrued over the years — even though no prisoners have yet been linked to Mr. Matt’s and Mr. Sweat’s actions."
There is more than testimony here. There are concrete actions from prison authorities against prison inmates. Do you believe the inmates are just "making up" stories against their guards? What would they get by doing so?
"They were also subjected to harsh policies ordered by the State Department of Corrections and Community Supervision: Dozens of inmates, many of whom had won the right to live on the honor block after years of good behavior, were transferred out of Clinton to other prisons. Many were placed in solitary confinement, and stripped of privileges they had accrued over the years — even though no prisoners have yet been linked to Mr. Matt’s and Mr. Sweat’s actions."
There is more than testimony here. There are concrete actions from prison authorities against prison inmates. Do you believe the inmates are just "making up" stories against their guards? What would they get by doing so?
6
Governor Cuomo had to know, as anyone would know, that this would be the likely response of prison guards.
He should have made clear that such behavior would not be tolerated. Instead, he instigated it. Playing tough guy, he went through the cell block, with a camera crew, openly accusing neighboring inmates of involvement.
The Governor is, by law, responsible for the prisons. In this case, he is personally responsible for the appalling behavior by prison guards.
He should have made clear that such behavior would not be tolerated. Instead, he instigated it. Playing tough guy, he went through the cell block, with a camera crew, openly accusing neighboring inmates of involvement.
The Governor is, by law, responsible for the prisons. In this case, he is personally responsible for the appalling behavior by prison guards.
49
Wow just a myriad of thoughts...
First to those that say "We are better than this..."
uh, no we are not. Not anymore.
The cynic in me says" What's the big deal? Its just enhanced interrogation".
Now familiar. Waterboarding, suffocation, etc. comes home.
Many approved of it abroad...
Then I wonder how many of these CIU guys were trained in the Iraq War...
Cruel and unusual punishment?
Last week you read about Pelican Bay in CA.
Today this...
Business as usual.
Appears to be the way we take care of things in this new Century.
Welcome home citizen.
Then the Optimist in me says, "Millennials are our next best hope. The Hipsters".
Because the Boomers and Gen XY look appear be lousy custodians of our Heritage.
First to those that say "We are better than this..."
uh, no we are not. Not anymore.
The cynic in me says" What's the big deal? Its just enhanced interrogation".
Now familiar. Waterboarding, suffocation, etc. comes home.
Many approved of it abroad...
Then I wonder how many of these CIU guys were trained in the Iraq War...
Cruel and unusual punishment?
Last week you read about Pelican Bay in CA.
Today this...
Business as usual.
Appears to be the way we take care of things in this new Century.
Welcome home citizen.
Then the Optimist in me says, "Millennials are our next best hope. The Hipsters".
Because the Boomers and Gen XY look appear be lousy custodians of our Heritage.
13
I hate to say this but we are not better than this.
The way some people in a position of authority in this country (e.g., police and prison guards) conduct themselves seemingly with a sense of impunity is very scary.
I realize that being a prison guard is a very difficult job and the prisoners they guard are not choir boys. But even taking this into consideration it is beyond reprehensible when prisoners are interrogated they way it is described in this story, especially when part of the motivation on the guards' part is to cover up for their incompetence on the job by catching the two escapees as soon as possible.
I hole a fair and transparent investigation into these prisoner interrogations takes place and those guards who engaged in it are punished appropriately.
The way some people in a position of authority in this country (e.g., police and prison guards) conduct themselves seemingly with a sense of impunity is very scary.
I realize that being a prison guard is a very difficult job and the prisoners they guard are not choir boys. But even taking this into consideration it is beyond reprehensible when prisoners are interrogated they way it is described in this story, especially when part of the motivation on the guards' part is to cover up for their incompetence on the job by catching the two escapees as soon as possible.
I hole a fair and transparent investigation into these prisoner interrogations takes place and those guards who engaged in it are punished appropriately.
7
Is this an article about prisons in North Korea or the United States? That the question can be asked at all is a testament to the travesty and tragedy of our so-called justice system. From now on I want to decide all by myself where my tax money goes.
19
On August 10th the nytimes published the story, "Drawings of Police Torture Seize China's Attention." A prisoner who was sequentially brutalized to extract a false confession and finally released managed to hire an artist to make drawings of the tortures he had endured and, against all odds, these were published where the public could see them. Maybe prisoners and their advocates here need to find their artists as well and let those images seize America's attention. Here, as in a totalitarian state that some of us would dread to live in, the public knows and yet does not know, sees and yet does not see. Can we expect to read in a future article that the brutalizing guards and their superiors were fired, imprisoned, punished in any way? Will we expect to learn that the prisoners forced to endure body and soul scarring experiences have been in the least compensated in any way?
22
Funny thing, China has more than four times the population of the US, but the US has almost twice as many people in prison than totalitarian China.
No where on Earth is a person more likely to go to prison, and stay there longer, than in The Land of the Free.
No where on Earth is a person more likely to go to prison, and stay there longer, than in The Land of the Free.
7
It's "torture," NYT. What you've been calling "harsh interrogation" since 2001 is called "torture" by everyone else.
This torture may not be as bad as the terrible tortures approved by the Bush administration, but the Times's determination to avoid calling it by its name seems to be as strong as ever. Why? Why keep enlarging the blot on the paper's otherwise good name?
This torture may not be as bad as the terrible tortures approved by the Bush administration, but the Times's determination to avoid calling it by its name seems to be as strong as ever. Why? Why keep enlarging the blot on the paper's otherwise good name?
36
Human Faith for Humanity
Reorganization of Justice system for the prison camps of humanity is urgent needed by reading this Article.
Reorganization of Justice system for the prison camps of humanity is urgent needed by reading this Article.
6
Yes, as we all agree, this kind of behavior is beyond disgraceful, but it continues, year after year, as those who have power lord over those in their charge; beating, berating, humiliating, intimidating, coercing,. This is the culture that we allow to be created. We don't care to hear what happens behind the walls and barbed wire. This is the "hero culture" where anyone in law enforcement is celebrated, and thanked for their service, no matter how inappropriate. Corrections officers are at the bottom of the peeking order. They don't get the full respect of the law enforcement community or the public because they are viewed as babysitters, by a public that needs to have someone watch those that are discarded. We put people in jail and then we don't really care what happens. our gaze is politely averted. Then, if and when they are released, we make sure they are labeled and identified for life as "felons" not worthy to work or fully participate in society.
These beatings, this coercion and intimidation, is not new. It happens over and over in every state in this nation, and, in some form or another, daily. And we really don't care.
These beatings, this coercion and intimidation, is not new. It happens over and over in every state in this nation, and, in some form or another, daily. And we really don't care.
18
You write: "Yes, as we all agree, this kind of behavior is beyond disgraceful ... ."
Sadly, it strikes me that part of the reason this sort of thing continues "year after year" is that we DON'T all agree such behavior is disgraceful, as a survey of some of the comments here clearly confirms.
Sadly, it strikes me that part of the reason this sort of thing continues "year after year" is that we DON'T all agree such behavior is disgraceful, as a survey of some of the comments here clearly confirms.
6
"Dozens of inmates, many of whom had won the right to live on the honor block after years of good behavior, were transferred out of Clinton to other prisons. Many were placed in solitary confinement, and stripped of privileges they had accrued over the years ...".
On closer reading, much of the article seems to be a advocacy grievance over loss of privileges, described and enumerated elsewhere, in a statewide program called "honor blocks" which it seems now face elimination as result of this escape from one of them. But from the above quote from the article, does a prisoner actually have "the right" to live in one, once placed there, like say a lease on a rent atabilized apartment, and does a prisoner actually accrue privileges due to the number of years one has spent in prison, like say a pension, or is this all just an arbitrary institutional incentive program, subject to revocation for cause such as an escape?
On closer reading, much of the article seems to be a advocacy grievance over loss of privileges, described and enumerated elsewhere, in a statewide program called "honor blocks" which it seems now face elimination as result of this escape from one of them. But from the above quote from the article, does a prisoner actually have "the right" to live in one, once placed there, like say a lease on a rent atabilized apartment, and does a prisoner actually accrue privileges due to the number of years one has spent in prison, like say a pension, or is this all just an arbitrary institutional incentive program, subject to revocation for cause such as an escape?
6
The article I read was, "After 2 Killers Fled, New York Prisoners Say Beatings Began. "This article spoke of the 2 men in New York that escaped and led the police on a huge manhunt for weeks. The article was not about the escapees, but about the prisoners in the same area that the escapees were from. The cell area was nicknamed "The Honor Cell." Most of these inmates were earning time off of their sentences for good behavior. Now they were being bullied while they were being interrogated by the prison guards. Many of these prisoners filed complaints against the guards afterward. It turns out the guards were the ones that aided the escape. So the point that I got from this story is that now the guards are the bad guys and the bad guys seemed reformed by not following in the escapees negative ways. It is quite a twist in the story. Now the guards will go to jail with the prisoners they dispise. Pretty scary for them. It must be a mind game to work in a prison to begin with.
3
"Now the guards will go to jail" No, they won't.
I'm just thinking that that the term "correctional" is being used in the wrong contexzt.
7
This is unacceptable, contact the Governor at this address and let him know you are not paying tax dollars to any agency that is responsible for torture. Tell him you want him to do something about this.
https://www.governor.ny.gov/contact
https://www.governor.ny.gov/contact
8
Thanks for this, after reading the article and the comments, I am disgusted at the Governors behavior. I contemplated whether it's worth it to write him a letter expressing my abhorrence at his ignorant, egotistic remark to the prisoner.....one he wouldn't have made had he been stripped of his civil rights and luxurious benefits .... and your comment is making me lean towards writing something, even if it's something short. If enough of us voice our opinions, surely his administration will recognize how such distaste among voters could effect the poll-booths.
Apart from my disgust at the behavior of the guards and correction officials and my disappointment with Gov. Cuomo's behavior, I am struck by one prisoner's description of his experience with the guards as described in this article " . . . while another guard in a C.I.U. windbreaker tied a garbage bag around his neck, “using the plastic bag as a hanging noose.”
Reading this, I am reminded of the July death in Texas of Sandra Bland, who allegedly hanged herself while in jail while awaiting a court appearance on a minor traffic charge., Her death, by hanging in her cell using a plastic bag as a noose, was ruled a suicide, although it seemed to me that the evidence for this was flimsy. In light of what we have learned about prison guards' behaviour from this article, I think her death ought to be re-investigated.
Reading this, I am reminded of the July death in Texas of Sandra Bland, who allegedly hanged herself while in jail while awaiting a court appearance on a minor traffic charge., Her death, by hanging in her cell using a plastic bag as a noose, was ruled a suicide, although it seemed to me that the evidence for this was flimsy. In light of what we have learned about prison guards' behaviour from this article, I think her death ought to be re-investigated.
37
Such a fantastic point. Prior to this, I hadn't given that much attention to the Sandra Bland case. Not because it didn't deserve attention, but had just been occupied with life and before I form an opinion on such a sensitive topic or situation, I prefer to do research. I heard some details, and said, ok it could go either way. Maybe it was the law enforcement, many officials get completely egotistic in their power. But then again, I thought, why would they kill her, what reason did they have? To what benefit would it be to them? Especially if they weren't the cops who arrested her (I believe this was the case?), and I thought, well, maybe she had mental issues, you know. Now after reading this, and the comments, it seems too much of a coincidence. It's probably a well known "tactic" among corrupted prison guards and prisoners. Wonder if Sandra Bland had ever served time before? Where would she have gotten the bag? How would she have even thought to do this? (this info may exist, as I said, didn't read into it yet, but now I certainly will). Thanks NY Times for this, please keep covering this issue, then we wonder why prison doesn't do it's intended job of rehabilitating.
After reading this article I am wondering who are the bigger criminals -- the inmates or the guards.
I hope that there is a thorough and fair investigation of this alleged brutalization of the inmates and those guards that engaged in illegal actions are appropriately punished. Termination of their employment and in some cases incarceration may be warranted.
The men who are inmates at this prison are not there for spitting on the sidewalk but they shouldn't be subjected to inhumane treatment like what was described in this story.
I hope that there is a thorough and fair investigation of this alleged brutalization of the inmates and those guards that engaged in illegal actions are appropriately punished. Termination of their employment and in some cases incarceration may be warranted.
The men who are inmates at this prison are not there for spitting on the sidewalk but they shouldn't be subjected to inhumane treatment like what was described in this story.
37
Once those guilty of carrying out beatings and unauthorized interrogations are identified, you think that termination of their employment as guards "may be warranted"? May?
The position of a prison guard is one that most people are not cut out for. Dealing with convicts, and having total power over them, requires a level head. Once someone has proved himself unfit for this sort of position, by lashing out at the people under his control, beating them, torturing them, he must be promptly removed from the prison service. In my opinion he should lose his pension as well - though I doubt the prison guards' union would agree.
The position of a prison guard is one that most people are not cut out for. Dealing with convicts, and having total power over them, requires a level head. Once someone has proved himself unfit for this sort of position, by lashing out at the people under his control, beating them, torturing them, he must be promptly removed from the prison service. In my opinion he should lose his pension as well - though I doubt the prison guards' union would agree.
This is so hopelessly dysfunctional.
11
I worked as a Corrections Counselor in a New York State medium security prison for men for four and a half years in the 1980s. Although most of the corrections officers were competent and kind men and women, there were a few who were labeled the Goon Squad who reflected the kind of behavior the Dannemora inmates complained of.
On one occasion a small, almost frail inmate was beaten senseless by these officers on the way to SHU. When complaints were lodged against them, the offending officers claimed that the inmate went "off" on the way, and the beating they administered was the only way to control him. Their claim was ludicrous - the inmate was about 5'4' and weighed about 135 pounds - each of the six officers accused was over 6' tall and at least 200 lbs.
The culture of violence against inmates existed as long ago as 1985. It is discouraging to know that nothing has changed in 30 years.
On one occasion a small, almost frail inmate was beaten senseless by these officers on the way to SHU. When complaints were lodged against them, the offending officers claimed that the inmate went "off" on the way, and the beating they administered was the only way to control him. Their claim was ludicrous - the inmate was about 5'4' and weighed about 135 pounds - each of the six officers accused was over 6' tall and at least 200 lbs.
The culture of violence against inmates existed as long ago as 1985. It is discouraging to know that nothing has changed in 30 years.
41
Unless correctional officers are themselves locked-in 24/7/365, they are coming home to the rest of us at the end of their shifts. Any suggestion that COs are especially psychologically gifted - able to seamlessly switch from behaving as a brutal Mr. Hyde on the inside to a compassionate Dr. Jekyl outside the gates - is patently implausible. There is so much that is sickeningly wrong about the rise of the prison industry as the economic backbone of many rural economies. We've allowed our disgraceful, simplistic politicians to pander to our lowest impulses, scrabbling over themselves to design ever more draconian "get tough on crime" schemes. We've abandoned our small farms, small manufacturers, small retail establishments, small diners and much of our union labor, but, here, you won't starve: you can go work for Prison, Inc.
38
I live in the Malone area and we do not have a high rate of murder. When the prisons first moved into the area the murder rate went up; the prison guards were murdering their estranged SO, new SO and themselves. It was insane! It hasn't happened in few years, but it will again.
I worked in a prison where a "thorough internal investigation" took place. That means that the investigators go through all of the files and destroy everything that incriminated the prison and the state.
42
I hope you went to a reporter with that information.
6
CORRUPTION AND COVER UP IS ALIVE AND KICKING ALL OVER AMERICA....and this includes the *majority, if NOT ALL, government run agencies. NO ONE verifies anything these days....it is SAD*
The USA has 25% of the world's incarcerated yet only 5% of the world's population. We are an unhealthy police state yet most folks pretend all is well with the USA.
And when we watch the POTUS debates all the clowns call for more laws, more law enforcement. Our system is sick and getting sicker not better. Step one is recognizing that a problem exists, but our pols consider that unpatriotic.
And when we watch the POTUS debates all the clowns call for more laws, more law enforcement. Our system is sick and getting sicker not better. Step one is recognizing that a problem exists, but our pols consider that unpatriotic.
34
I wonder if any of the guards there were veterans of Abu Ghraib. It'll be handled the same way regardless. Some nasty business for those guards that can be identified, nothing for the higher ups. I also wonder how well the complaining prisoners will fare.
Sad sad state of affairs. Life imitates art - I'm reminded of Shawshank.... minus the unhappy ending for the warden. Guess we'll see about the abusing guards.
Sad sad state of affairs. Life imitates art - I'm reminded of Shawshank.... minus the unhappy ending for the warden. Guess we'll see about the abusing guards.
8
I look forward to the article describing how these prison guards' lives change when they are wearing the orange prison jumpsuits. They will certainly hope the men guarding them are better than they were.
I also want to read how those men who had accrued privileges for following the rules are made whole. If you want peace, work for justice. That certainly applies in a prison where inmates are keenly aware when they are dealt with fairly.
I thank the authors for the article and urge them to follow up on this story.
I also want to read how those men who had accrued privileges for following the rules are made whole. If you want peace, work for justice. That certainly applies in a prison where inmates are keenly aware when they are dealt with fairly.
I thank the authors for the article and urge them to follow up on this story.
21
Does anyone have doubts about the incompetency of DOCS and the lack of professionalism of their guards?
7
A prison employee and incompetence by the 'warden' created the atmosphere that led the two prisoner to escape and now they want to take it out of prisoners who remained behind. I must also say that governor Cuomo did not come out too good with his visit to the prison.
18
Reprehensible does not begin to describe this deplorable conduct. Let's face it, if ever there was a group of workers who's claim to fame is brutality and a lack of accountability - its corrections officers..
Governor Cuomos comments to a prisoner were simply inappropriate- he should know better - and does. I can appreciate the level of frustration he must have been feeling but he models the behavior.
What Governor Cuomo needs to ask himself is this:
If he had a relative that was incarcerated; how would he feel about the brutality these prisoners were subjected to?
The behavior of the corrections officers is frankly beyond rank stupidity; brutalizing inmates who neither escaped; attempted to escape ; and had no known nexus to the escapees? Who is running this clown show? The taxpayers of New York State will pay for the stupidity and ignorance of prison staff; prepare for lots of lawsuits .
This would be a good time to fire a lot of abusive corrections employees- state officials have a fiscal obligation to the taxpayers to cut the problematic employees from the ranks.
Governor Cuomos comments to a prisoner were simply inappropriate- he should know better - and does. I can appreciate the level of frustration he must have been feeling but he models the behavior.
What Governor Cuomo needs to ask himself is this:
If he had a relative that was incarcerated; how would he feel about the brutality these prisoners were subjected to?
The behavior of the corrections officers is frankly beyond rank stupidity; brutalizing inmates who neither escaped; attempted to escape ; and had no known nexus to the escapees? Who is running this clown show? The taxpayers of New York State will pay for the stupidity and ignorance of prison staff; prepare for lots of lawsuits .
This would be a good time to fire a lot of abusive corrections employees- state officials have a fiscal obligation to the taxpayers to cut the problematic employees from the ranks.
25
and a moral obligation to the affected inmates.
2
the warden and all staff need to be fired and prosecuted and sued bigtime, the facility should be closed, this should become the biggest settlement in history, they are prisoners paying their debt not prisoners of war and were treated as such--even mc cain wasnn't treated that bad by the viet cong--
12
All based on the word of the criminals? Do you think a little due process may be appropriate?
When your governor reads this, by his reaction, you may judge him.
8
umm…now what is going to happen to the prisoners whose names are revealed in this article??
10
Nothing. When I was assaulted by wards in riots we are told not to retaliate or we would be investigated and potentially lose our jobs They can assault us and nothing happens but we touch them and we were literally fighting for our jobs. Care to comment?
1
hopefully the NYT and the layers of the prisoners are watching! The prisoners who were abused should be commended for coming forward.
Cuomo cut staff, ignored letters from elected officials about the security and conditions of the facility and hired his political hack friends to work for the prison system. Bottom line our Gov is to blame.
18
Well, so what else is new?
Not that I should give away my age, or anything. But I remember Attica, and all those police corruption scandals of the *70s, and the endless investigatory commissions and results thereof, and the reforms promised and--
You mean things went back to the way they always are?
There isn't much point in *punishing* people anyway. If they are suffering serious emotional and educational deficits that make it difficult for them to successfully function at life, we need to provide the services that will make them functional.
If they are individuals with severely miswired brains who cannot be *cured,* like the Bundys and Mansons of the world, we need to recognize that early and ensure they are securely incarcerated forever, and assigned some useful work to keep them busy for the rest of their natural lives.
This endless cycle of catch, incarcerate, release does nothing but enrich the corporations that run our prisons while it creates ever more dangerous people let loose on the rest of us.
Remind me--what century is this, anyway?
Not that I should give away my age, or anything. But I remember Attica, and all those police corruption scandals of the *70s, and the endless investigatory commissions and results thereof, and the reforms promised and--
You mean things went back to the way they always are?
There isn't much point in *punishing* people anyway. If they are suffering serious emotional and educational deficits that make it difficult for them to successfully function at life, we need to provide the services that will make them functional.
If they are individuals with severely miswired brains who cannot be *cured,* like the Bundys and Mansons of the world, we need to recognize that early and ensure they are securely incarcerated forever, and assigned some useful work to keep them busy for the rest of their natural lives.
This endless cycle of catch, incarcerate, release does nothing but enrich the corporations that run our prisons while it creates ever more dangerous people let loose on the rest of us.
Remind me--what century is this, anyway?
17
Since the Governor was so closely involved with the aftermath of the escapes, a special prosecutor independent of both him and the Corrections Department should be brought in to investigate the allegations of abuse detailed here.
35
Assuming what we are told is true, the guards should be held to account for these atrocities against the inmates. Deplorable doesn't begin to describe my disgust for this type of irrational behavior
23
Yeah. Its almost as deplorable as the crimes these guys committed.
These so called "officers of law" should do not do time for these heinous crimes. The supervisors should receive the longest jail terms.
These victims of police brutality need to be compensated for this grotesque violation of their constitutional rights.
These victims of police brutality need to be compensated for this grotesque violation of their constitutional rights.
8
I worked for the California Department of Juvenile Justice as a Youth Correctional Counselor for 23 years.
Why is it that
1) I was assaulted 8 times In riots. That is a felony, Battery on a peace officer. Why is it not one of the guys who assaulted me was prosecuted? Please tell me.
2) I was gassed twice. That's where they mix feces and urine and throw it ni your face. They were not prosecuted
3) I had a hit put out on me by the Southern Hispanics. The person responsible was no prosecuted
4) A Northern Hispanic, Patrico O, tried to kill me with a shank in a riot. He was not prosecuted
5) My wife and then small daughters were threatened with rape, sodomy and murder.
But that doesn't matter to you does it. I probably provoked them because to you wards are NEVER wrong, abused. That's why best friend Steve is in wheel chair from having skull crushed with a dumbbell. What about OUR RIGHTS!!!!! We busted our butt to help these guys and we get assaulted, gassed, death threats
Feel free to come my unit, Ironwood. We have the violent juveniles in the system. Riots happen constantly A 4X2 or a 3 X 3 is a gift. If you think you can do it better than me, then come on down. I have 17 commendations but I would welcome a novice schooling me down. Let me know when to expert you
Why is it that
1) I was assaulted 8 times In riots. That is a felony, Battery on a peace officer. Why is it not one of the guys who assaulted me was prosecuted? Please tell me.
2) I was gassed twice. That's where they mix feces and urine and throw it ni your face. They were not prosecuted
3) I had a hit put out on me by the Southern Hispanics. The person responsible was no prosecuted
4) A Northern Hispanic, Patrico O, tried to kill me with a shank in a riot. He was not prosecuted
5) My wife and then small daughters were threatened with rape, sodomy and murder.
But that doesn't matter to you does it. I probably provoked them because to you wards are NEVER wrong, abused. That's why best friend Steve is in wheel chair from having skull crushed with a dumbbell. What about OUR RIGHTS!!!!! We busted our butt to help these guys and we get assaulted, gassed, death threats
Feel free to come my unit, Ironwood. We have the violent juveniles in the system. Riots happen constantly A 4X2 or a 3 X 3 is a gift. If you think you can do it better than me, then come on down. I have 17 commendations but I would welcome a novice schooling me down. Let me know when to expert you
5
If guards beat prisoners that is wrong period and since I pay their salary with millions of other NY residents. I have a say I am not paying anybody to torture and beat anyone and neither is anyone else. The guards should be fired.
HealedByGod, of course all of the prisoners who assaulted you should have been prosecuted. What does this have to do with the criminal and unprovoked assaults conducted by the corrections officers in this case? No one here is saying that all prisoners are model citizens, just that these particular corrections officers are criminals.
1
Michael Winerip needs to get a Pulitzer for this and the other prison exposes at Rikers. Please look them up.
20
In 1966 myself and three other college friends wanted a ride to a basketball game from down town. We had not been drinking and asked a classmate to give us a ride. He had an open bottle under the seat and to my knowledge he had not been drinking either. As he pulled out of the parking lot a policeman pulled up behind our car blocking the way and he demanded we all get out of the car. After a full frisking he found the bottle and threw all of us in jail for 'Public Intoxication.' It cost my parents lots of money to hire an attorney and we were all found not guilty. I have never trusted police from that day forth. If police feel they are being put upon well ....... If one bad apple spoils the bunch....then clean up your bunch.
14
The officers who committed this abuse should be given the same cells and prison time as those individuals they abused.
12
The most interesting thing about this article is that it portrays this story as a one of a kind occurrence and is completely ignorant of the fact that when something goes wrong in a prison that the staff resort to all sorts of actions that are against policy, are unfair and perhaps illegal. And that this is standard operating procedure.
Because it is pretty common knowledge that this is normal procedure. That whenever there is any sort of breach, such as a smuggling operation, and organized assault of staff, basically any occasion in which 1. information is needed or, 2 whenever individual prisoners cause trouble. If a few prisoners get out of line it is standard for the whole prison to be put into lockdown, for no logical reason at all.
The US, being a country with a large prison population, what goes on in prisons is well known to most people, and should not come as a surprise to a news organization.
However now that the NYT has found that such behavior exists it should take it to the next logical step and do an investigative article about this issue in general. To the "shock" or the sheltered elite they will find that in prison not all is fair, and what goes on in prison stays in prison.
Because it is pretty common knowledge that this is normal procedure. That whenever there is any sort of breach, such as a smuggling operation, and organized assault of staff, basically any occasion in which 1. information is needed or, 2 whenever individual prisoners cause trouble. If a few prisoners get out of line it is standard for the whole prison to be put into lockdown, for no logical reason at all.
The US, being a country with a large prison population, what goes on in prisons is well known to most people, and should not come as a surprise to a news organization.
However now that the NYT has found that such behavior exists it should take it to the next logical step and do an investigative article about this issue in general. To the "shock" or the sheltered elite they will find that in prison not all is fair, and what goes on in prison stays in prison.
10
Sweat, Matt and other inmates at the prison committed serious and in many cases violent crimes. Yet, we as a civil society recognize that beatings and human indignity does nothing to address such offenses or is likely to help solve prison escapes. If the stories set forth in this article are verified, those responsible must be held accountable just as the prisoners are being held accountable for their crimes. Doing anything else devalues what this country stand for.
18
The two that helped Matt and sweat get out, were verbally investigated, the inmate that was next to Matts cell gets beaten because he didn't hear anything. What's wrong with this picture? Govenor can u explain this ? Of course you can, you allowed it...they should get evey officer that was in that building the days of those beatings, and throw them out like the garbage that they are! Just like the escape, common sense if you can't find them walking through the Forrest of trees, wouldn't you think to also look up and see if there up there looking down at these so called professionals..what a disgrace!!!! I cannot wait to get out of ny, the blind leading the blind..Govenor, wake up and smell the coffee and get your head out of where ever it don't belong..To think, at one point I once liked you!
7
Spend time in and around an adult correctional facility ( jail or prison) and you will encounter the most terrifyingly unique workforce ever assembled to earn an hourly wage. Most are dramatically uneducated. Anything more than high school is a rarity. Morbid obesity, depression, alcoholism and deconditioning are rampant. Correctional Officers have only two or three objectives: not get beaten up, accrue and take as much time off as possible, earn as much overtime as possible, and ultimately, as the years go on get as far away from direct inmate contact as possible. There is no "upside" to the work. It is thankless, soul murdering and without positive feedback. So, it doesn't surprise me that inmates were abused when the escapes took place. That's what frustrated and embarrassed correctional officer do....
22
As a person who works in a prison, I find it puzzling that no mention was made of filmed- on-camera evidence (if not of abuse, then of prisoner and staff movement) or a lack of such evidence. As a worker I am almost always on camera- with the one exception being the restroom- at my facility. This is a question that authorities and news sources should ask.
In addition, while there have always been some hardworking, honest male correction officers, I have found that as many of the "old boys" retire and are replaced by women, and as a woman has gone up the ranks of "management," officer conduct and inmate programming has improved. Let's remember, the Stanford Prison Experiment was shut down at the proposition of the female graduate student working under the male researcher. I am not trying to disparage men- many of the outraged comments here are by concerned men- but just as I felt men going into nursing clearly helped that profession, perhaps more women in corrections would aid in more humane prisons.
In addition, while there have always been some hardworking, honest male correction officers, I have found that as many of the "old boys" retire and are replaced by women, and as a woman has gone up the ranks of "management," officer conduct and inmate programming has improved. Let's remember, the Stanford Prison Experiment was shut down at the proposition of the female graduate student working under the male researcher. I am not trying to disparage men- many of the outraged comments here are by concerned men- but just as I felt men going into nursing clearly helped that profession, perhaps more women in corrections would aid in more humane prisons.
8
Really? This is stomach-churning. I don't have much to add to the outrage expressed in these comments, except this: AFTER READING THIS, ARE WE STILL SUPPOSED TO BELIEVE THAT SANDRA BLAND PUT THAT TRASH BAG AROUND HER OWN NECK???
22
Whatever. Just because you type in caps doesn't make it true.
1
Reading some of these comments, I am appalled -- no, I am nauseated and ashamed -- at the number of people commenting who apparently believe that is perfectly acceptable to abuse prisoners. My God, what century is this?
19
The arrogance of the little Cuomo marching through the Clinton facility coveys the the attitude of politicians pandering to the public. From the scandal of Rikers Island to the state correctional facilities, to the Federal prison system, corrections officers are poorly screened, and trained and a good number are on walk a fine line of criminality on their own. The incidences of contraband in correctional facilities as a result of corrections personnel vs. visitors has been demonstrated many times. This prison break was not not possible without staff assistance yet prisoners are beaten and tortured in retaliation. Behavior reminiscent of prison camps during war time. It is unclear who to trust to take up the cause of correcting this stain on the American correction system. Does the DOJ have the courage? Or should we look to politicians like the governor who abruptly ended a corruption investigation when it came close to his office? Not likely. The citizens of New York state must have an independent prosecutor at the federal level examine all allegations and vigorously prosecute from the lowest ranking employee to senior corrections officials.
The citizens of the Empire State deserve no less.
The citizens of the Empire State deserve no less.
11
Unfortunately, very little will happen as a result of this story.
6
"Behavior reminiscent of prison camps during war time."
Actually, during WW2, British prisoners in German PoW camps were generally decently treated in accordance with the rules. And the Brits generally treated German PoWs decently too. (Of course there were rare exceptions on both sides.) Both sides allowed access by Red Cross personnel from neutral countries.
Actually, during WW2, British prisoners in German PoW camps were generally decently treated in accordance with the rules. And the Brits generally treated German PoWs decently too. (Of course there were rare exceptions on both sides.) Both sides allowed access by Red Cross personnel from neutral countries.
The use of the plastic bags described here reminded me of Sandra Bland's death in a Texas jail cell.
20
Doesn't someone need to be guarding the guards? They sound more dangerous than the inmates.
10
Thank you NYTimes for exposing what appears to be state sanctioned torture. #impeachCuomo
14
They say a fish rots from the head down.
1
Prison guards are an unhappy lot & deserve every nickel they get paid but torture should never be tolerated-fire them all.Let them flip burgers for $15/hr.
9
No they deserve to do time.
5
Corrupt people can't even be trusted to flip hamburgers.
5
Remember, the tools used by the escapees were hidden in hamburger brought into the prison. These people must not be allowed contact with any hamburger meat, for flipping or any other purpose.
this prison is a trainwreck all around
3
Your statement is truer than you realise..Do some research on this prison. A few years ago c.o s were caught extortion tge wives and fenale family members of inmates. They would go to the local motels where the visitors stayed while in town, demand sex and threaten to have their loved one put in solitary, beaten, or sanctioned with loss of priviledges
We imprison too many people. It brutalizes the prisoners, the guards, and really all of us who take it for granted and think it happens only to people who don't matter. Plus, it's very expensive, in more ways than just financially.
42
@ Mary: The prisoners in that prison earned their sentences - it's not a jail or short term facility. However, what seems to be that institution's culture is very ugly and unsettling, uncivilized and way too inbred. It's the biggest and best employer with local, multi-generational hiring practices which is part of the problem.
Granted, prison overcrowding is a problem but, Clinton Correctional is a MAXIMUM security state prison for the "worst of the worst." While the allegations against the guards warrant in-depth investigation and certainly has the possibility of hardening the most gentle of giants, those condemned to spend the remainder of their lives there were both brutal and brutalized long before arriving.
Authority doing what it does best - punishing those it can without risk to itself. If the police can get away with killing civilians, why should we expect any less of prison officials? Or political leaders, corporate bosses, ...?
12
Wait, I am confused, isn't it legal to waterboard and torture people in this Country? The Governor must explain this fact to his constituency. Perhaps he can detain anyone for any length of time as a prerogative of him being the Supreme Authority of the State of New York. Same we should do with anyone that defies the NYPD, they know they are bad, and they have it coming. This needs to be investigated by the FBI, the CIA, the Congress, the Supreme Court. Pinochet anyone?
11
I agree. The comment you made makes a lot of sense. It's too bad.
1
So we are going to get a proper investigation of all this from the administration of Andy Cuomo, the man who shut down the Moreland Commission? Really?
14
If the feds aren't involved (as they already are over sexual assaults by NY prison guards), then nothing will come of it. Cuomo seemed to be on the same page as the guards.
5
Something is telling me this kind of thing doesn't just happen at Clinton. It's really sad what's happening to this country. I wonder how bad it'll get
14
When I read of this sort of thing, I am ashamed of this country. Is America only an expensive imitation of China nowadays?
17
This sort of thing isn't new. China's simply the cheap imitation of America
5
I guess if you're part of the PC crowd you're ashamed. If you live in reality then you're probably mad as can be and make your voice heard so it doesn't happen again. The real world knows no limitations for injustice.
3
A civil society cannot permit this.
19
Is an insinuation somewhere in there?
1
Disgusting...
NYT...Don't let this story fade way like so many others. Stay on top of it. Keep those accountable with thier feet close to the fire and your readers informed of the outcomes. We are counting on you!
NYT...Don't let this story fade way like so many others. Stay on top of it. Keep those accountable with thier feet close to the fire and your readers informed of the outcomes. We are counting on you!
38
There is really no amount of torture in American prisons that surprises me anymore. CO's run gulags unlike anything else in the democratic world, and too much of the public (even some NYT commenters) shrug and decide that anyone who has had the misfortune of being sent to prison must deserve it.
12
Many are there on trumped up charges but even criminals should not be treated like that.
6
Force and violence are such a limited perspective.
Are the politicians, police and prison officials even able to conceive of alternatives?
Are the politicians, police and prison officials even able to conceive of alternatives?
5
Stay on top of this story, please. I have a feeling there's a lot more to learn.
17
Frankly, we have no right to be surprised by any of this. As a nation, we still refuse to hold to account those in the CIA, the military and the previous presidential administration who authorized and carried out torture in our name in the course of the war on terror Instead, we made excuses for something we had previously nearly universally held to be abhorrent and an affront to human decency, even ignoring something we had long known: i.e., that torture doesn't work. In refusing to come to terms with what was done, we virtually ensured that the practice of torture would be extended to other contexts -- always, of course, on the argument that THIS particular set of circumstances warrants an exception.
The acceptance of torture -- even in the wake of an event such as 9-11 -- is a cancer on the ethics and morality of our society as a whole.
The acceptance of torture -- even in the wake of an event such as 9-11 -- is a cancer on the ethics and morality of our society as a whole.
98
I see you are still blaming it on Bush; news for you, dude, Wilson, Roosevelt, Truman and Kennedy were among the many administrations who tolerated torture. Try reading a history book once in a while.
3
I'm blaming anyone who authorized torture, and also anyone, including those in the current administration, who failed to prosecute it.
1
I am a native of "far Northern New York." The Danemora Prison is the oldest prison in the beautiful but economically depressed North Country. However, it is just one prison among several others developed as an antidote to holding largely downstate prisoners in ever increasing numbers in poor upstate towns. Economic Development in the North Country, NIMBYism in the suburbs of NYC combined with the War on Drugs created a Prison Industrial Complex in Danemora and elsewhere where generations of guards unsuited for their jobs and lacking accountability engage in unbecoming public service. It's time for New York to completely overhaul its corrupt, inefficient prisons.
16
Locating state prisons away from population centers and near the state border is not something that is unique to New York. Several prisons in Mass. (including the main maximum security prison) are near the NH border and five or six Conn. prisons are near the Mass. border. I'm sure residents of other state will recognize this pattern.
1
Mr Alexander, or other prisoners, could not reveal small details to the authorities. For example, if they admitted they had heard activity behind the wall late at night or earlier in time had heard the sound of a cutting tool, they would have been guilty of some type of conspiracy. If any other inmate actually knew where the escapees were they could have traded that information for their own advantage. But no one knew where the escapees were.
The guard that did help the escape was revealed quickly. I imagine several inmates said something like, "Don't talk to me. Talk to that guard lady that had a crush on those guys." But, she didn't know where they were either.
So, the investigators, surely receiving threats and promises from their own superiors, did the only thing they could think of. They beat the ..... out of anyone they thought could help them.
It was a tough situation for everyone. If the same situation were to repeat itself tomorrow, I'm sure everyone would again act the same way. There is no way an investigation of this escape will change how escapes are handled in the future.
Perhaps lessons learned will prevent escapes.
I am not saying prisoners deserved beatings. They did not. But prison culture, like the culture of war, is based on force.
The guard that did help the escape was revealed quickly. I imagine several inmates said something like, "Don't talk to me. Talk to that guard lady that had a crush on those guys." But, she didn't know where they were either.
So, the investigators, surely receiving threats and promises from their own superiors, did the only thing they could think of. They beat the ..... out of anyone they thought could help them.
It was a tough situation for everyone. If the same situation were to repeat itself tomorrow, I'm sure everyone would again act the same way. There is no way an investigation of this escape will change how escapes are handled in the future.
Perhaps lessons learned will prevent escapes.
I am not saying prisoners deserved beatings. They did not. But prison culture, like the culture of war, is based on force.
3
Well the agencies searching for them had no idea where they were. They spent days looking east of Dannemora. If Matt and Sweat had gone easy they would have had to swim across Lake Champlain. I live in the Malone area and I knew they were headed this way. There is an old railroad bed (now snowmobile/4 wheeler trail) that leads from Dannemora to the Coveytown Road where Sweat was captured. Where the trail comes out is less than a mile from where he was captured. But Cuomo brought the big boys in and ignored the local police department. If anyone knows an area it would be the locals not some yahoos from downstate who think Lake Placid is a suburb of Albany. But us dumb country bumpkins don't know nothin ya know.
9
So the guards are blaming the inmates for not doing the guards' jobs. Doesn't this imply that the guards weren't doing their jobs? Um, yeah...
13
Disgusting. This should be investigated immediately and the guards should be fired and prosecuted. Mario Cuomo is an embarrassment to the state of NY. Our prison system is a reflection of the culture in America. It is so sad and depressing to see human beings treated this way. Please investigate all of those involved immediately.
17
Mario Cuomo?
6
Apparently the NY State Dept. of Corrections is mismanaged mess. Cuomo needs to do his job, if he's able, by cleaning house. I'm not holding my breath.
9
That would be a conflict of interest if you expect Cuomo to do his job, so Preet Bharara is doing it for him.
Call the warden on the carpet,he's ultimately responsible.
I'm trying to generate some sympathy in myself for these inmates, but, to be honest, I can't.
6
What does that say about you? Why can't you. Similarly, if our American military are captured, are you unable to have feeling ?
8
Oh how foolish....I hope I'm reading your statement wrong. Do you really think Feelings for Prisoners and feelings for our Military can even be compared? @Know Nothing Please tell me I'm reading this wrong
1
I'm with Harry.
In the world of prison administration, I would think that your best case scenario would be to have lots of prisoners who qualify for an "honor block." If you have to manage men who are locked up for years, you would hope and pray that most of them are well-behaved and productive, and in return you can give them slightly better living conditions and less supervision.
It is unfortunate that the authorities feel the need to strip these other men of their privileges, even if they may have heard something going on at night and did not report it. I hope they are restored to honor status soon.
None of this excuses the guards for beating and threatening inmates, of course. The state prison system may have bought itself dozens of new lawsuits brought by abused prisoners and guards who were unfairly fired or demoted. The ultimate cost may far exceed the overtime wages for searching for the two escapees. What a mess!
It is unfortunate that the authorities feel the need to strip these other men of their privileges, even if they may have heard something going on at night and did not report it. I hope they are restored to honor status soon.
None of this excuses the guards for beating and threatening inmates, of course. The state prison system may have bought itself dozens of new lawsuits brought by abused prisoners and guards who were unfairly fired or demoted. The ultimate cost may far exceed the overtime wages for searching for the two escapees. What a mess!
9
Privileges must be earned.
During the Hitler years the Waffen SS would shoot at random about 10 prisoners for every prisoner who escaped. Somehow what happened at Clinton Correctional Facility has about the same taste. America be very careful, you are playing with fire here allowing torture of prisoners because you are angry.
31
Hey genious, how many prisoners at Clinton were shot? Zero maybe. Comparing the guards to the Waffen SS is beyond intellectually dishonest, it is downright stupid.
1
A Hitler comparison is hardly valid, although I'm sure you feel important using it.
2
This is a very distressing report. I hope it results in many firings and even jail time for some of the perpetrators and incompetent prison staff.
Cuomo should also lose his governorship over this scandal.
Cuomo should also lose his governorship over this scandal.
13
I confess - I did not read the article. The headline is enough for me. I am not willing to be "informed" when it comes to man's inhumanity to other human beings. Even if those human beings are criminals.
We are 'the best country in he world'? according to ... whom? why?
I hope but doubt we will ever live up to the ideals we are so fond of alluding to, but seem unable to live up to.
We are 'the best country in he world'? according to ... whom? why?
I hope but doubt we will ever live up to the ideals we are so fond of alluding to, but seem unable to live up to.
9
Wow, this is insane! If it's provable, the only decent right thing to do is fire and then prosecute the entire lot of them!
We have to choose: are we going to allow this type of stuff in the US or not? Prisoners under the power of the Criminal Justice System have rights too. One of them is NOT to be treated like this by those in authority. If the guards got caught looking stupid, that's their freaking problem, not the prisoners.
As for those that feel that the prisoners got what they deserve, this is why we have so many in prison, because we care so little about how the least of us is treated. What people forget is, we keep allowing the systems we live under to cut away the weakest, poorest, least deserving among us. Sooner or later, that "least person" may be you or someone you care about. What then? It will be too late to call foul, as you will be the one without a voice.
"Do unto others..." Remember that?
We have to choose: are we going to allow this type of stuff in the US or not? Prisoners under the power of the Criminal Justice System have rights too. One of them is NOT to be treated like this by those in authority. If the guards got caught looking stupid, that's their freaking problem, not the prisoners.
As for those that feel that the prisoners got what they deserve, this is why we have so many in prison, because we care so little about how the least of us is treated. What people forget is, we keep allowing the systems we live under to cut away the weakest, poorest, least deserving among us. Sooner or later, that "least person" may be you or someone you care about. What then? It will be too late to call foul, as you will be the one without a voice.
"Do unto others..." Remember that?
18
What we have here is a failure to communicate.
3
This is New York, remember Attica, 9 of the 10 correctional guards killed in the riot were killed by the State Police and the National Guard when they re-took the prison....
3
I do not know about you, but all this talk makes me think that going to prison is not such a good deal after all. I wonder how I can avoid such a tragic fate...?
1
Who in their right mind thinks going to prison is a good deal?
1
Unless the United States turns into Putin's Russia anytime soon, New York's prison scandal should be the end of Mario Cuomo's political career. The state hosts the city with the Statue of Liberty, for heavens sake. How can Cuomo ever go there to welcome new immigrants to these shores? Lady Liberty, as some call it, is a beacon of the world's political hopes of justice, equality, liberty and human dignity. New Yorkers must demand the resignation of anyone presiding over this flagrant insult to the statue's American values.
25
In Putin's Russia- torturers might stand a chance of being prosecuted.
1
Cuomo was elected in 2010. And he's responsible for the conditions at a state prison built in 1844; and packed to the brim with people put & kept there by draconian sentencing laws enacted, over decades, by duly elected NY legislators. elected by the good people of New York? If that were the standard, every governor in the US- and certainly, given the famously abysmal conditions in Louisiana prisons, your Gov. Jindal- would all have to walk the plank with Gov. Cuomo.
2
Surely you jest-Putin teaches it,he has a Master's Degree.
There needs to be an investigation of what occurred at the Clinton facility and, where the evidence shows that a guard assaulted or otherwise abused a prisoner, that guard should be prosecuted. It is doubtful whether the guards had authority to question prisoners at all; investigations are generally performed by designated investigators, not prison guards. Punishing prisoners for Matt's and Sweat's escape was a more likely motive for the guards' actions. If even some of these accounts are true, those actions demonstrate pervasive institutional corruption in our prison system.
It is possible that the other prisoners on the "honor block" heard sounds that suggested that all was not kosher in Matt and Sweat's cells. It is also ikely, however, that none of these prisoners spoke to either of the two inmates about what they'd heard; they'd have kept quiet. Yet ultimate responsibility for the escapes lies, not with the other inmates, but with the guards who did not do their jobs. Attacking the inmates who did not "leave" is merely evidence of the guards' incompetence and corruption.
Over the past months, we have seen that those hired to protect civilians and uphold the laws have instead developed a culture of violence, intimidation, racism and contempt for civil rights, civil liberties and legal process. They are, it seems, a law unto themselves. Civilians and the media need to keep up the pressure for change. We are supposed to be a democracy, not a police state.
It is possible that the other prisoners on the "honor block" heard sounds that suggested that all was not kosher in Matt and Sweat's cells. It is also ikely, however, that none of these prisoners spoke to either of the two inmates about what they'd heard; they'd have kept quiet. Yet ultimate responsibility for the escapes lies, not with the other inmates, but with the guards who did not do their jobs. Attacking the inmates who did not "leave" is merely evidence of the guards' incompetence and corruption.
Over the past months, we have seen that those hired to protect civilians and uphold the laws have instead developed a culture of violence, intimidation, racism and contempt for civil rights, civil liberties and legal process. They are, it seems, a law unto themselves. Civilians and the media need to keep up the pressure for change. We are supposed to be a democracy, not a police state.
36
Those guards thought they were gonna get away with what they did, Because they figured NO ONE is gonna believe an inmate..it's funny how there were no I'd tags, suddenly deputy's went out on retirement, this don't open anyone's eyes? Oh and the GOVENOR, he should be ashamed of himself!!! Those guards took out everything on those inmates, when they were 100% wrong, sleeping on the job, and getting paid for it, Each and EVERYONE should be punished and put in there with the inmates they beat to a pulp..See how big and bad they are after that..Anybody can beat someone who's handcuffed, but why? Because of there mistake? we're all human, don't let your authority get to your head. Sad that you can't trust anyone nowadays...........Donna
20
You said the guards thought they were gonna get away with it. Well they did get away with it. Who are they, no one knows or says, or is going to try to find out. No one is going to be punished for this or for guards sleeping or any of it. It's a sad shame the way these things operate. Those in charge are just as criminal as the ones they watch.
If you get every guard on duty, and every one from CIU and other Units, that were there at the time of the beatings, they'll find out who did it...Put there butts in a line up, that would be the only way...For now, there thinking there getting away with it..I'm sure family members will make sure they find who they are.
Sorry, but these guys don't sound very believable. And they totally ignore the fact that this was a high profile case from day one. The prison was under intense scrutiny and federal officers were involved in the manhunt...it's highly unlikely such flagrant examples of abuse would've gone unnoticed.
1
Yeah- Because the Feds would never tolerate torturing anybody . . .
6
They didn't go unnoticed.
5
I do not know about Virginia. But in NY the guards absolutely run the orisons. They do what they want. Have you been following thus story? Do you realise tge guards on the tier slept through theirs shifts most nights? This occurred for years and is tge norm not only in Clinton but all over the state.
1
The number of comments here that basically say "the prisoners deserved it" are disgusting.
53
Thank you. My sentiment exactly.
4
Why have sympathy for the prisoners who were allegedly beaten? If they hadn't committed a crime (and probably a violent crime), they wouldn't be in the prison. Prison life is supposed to be harsh, not a country club lifestyle.
3
They shouldn't pay for the mistakes of the officers, the officers had no right to BEAT them, Ask them questions with their mouths not their hands... It was uncalled for..
9
Prison life is supposed to be humane, not harsh. You should have sympathy and be very concerned about what happened to these prisoners because most of them are going to get out and become your neighbors. People like you just don't understand that prisons don't only house people who are mentally ill who committed crimes; prisons also turn someone who is reasonably stable into someone who is unstable, and make someone who is mentally ill far, far worse. I'd rather not have a man who is angry and filled with rage all the time because of his prison experience living next to me or driving on the same streets I'm on. They can live next to you if you want.
5
No it's SUPPOSED to be rehabilitation. Moreover, the judge sentenced them to do time ..... and nothing more. This vile abuse is itself illegal and the "guards" who committed it are themselves criminals -- no better than their convict charges.
6
What will the Governor do? The buck stops with him.
18
All of us bear some responsibility for these American gulags, warehousing two and a quarter million people, out of sight and out of mind, until the rare sensational incident- like this escape- briefly lights up the ugliness.
A democratic nation doesn't end up having the highest incarceration rate in the world without voting, time after time, over decades, for officials who will enact laws that impose strictly applied, excessively long prison sentences- and who emphasize "punishment" and isolation over rehabilitation and reeducation. We voted for this brutal, hidden world.
A democratic nation doesn't end up having the highest incarceration rate in the world without voting, time after time, over decades, for officials who will enact laws that impose strictly applied, excessively long prison sentences- and who emphasize "punishment" and isolation over rehabilitation and reeducation. We voted for this brutal, hidden world.
23
The question is... who authorized these beatings?
If Andrew Cuomo told corrections officials that they were to do "whatever is necessary" to get that information, as was reported in the media, then he should resign.
If Andrew Cuomo told corrections officials that they were to do "whatever is necessary" to get that information, as was reported in the media, then he should resign.
18
If Cuomo did directly or indirectly authorize what actions were taken against the prisoners then he should be forced out of office since he probably wouldn't go willingly.
Spot on, Y!
So now the Office of Special Investigations of the Department of Corrections is going to "investigate" its own. Sort of like the fox guarding the hen house. Maybe Loretta Lynch will wake up and rise to the occasion. After all, it's only our Constitution that is at stake.
16
More tv and ice cream for prisoners. More empathy for criminals. More space in prison cells, more tools for prisoners escaping available. Fewer expectations that drilling noise should be reported to guards. More freedom for hardened criminals. Nothing about society, victims of crime, honest police, and society's needed safety. Only, maintain the ability to complain about almost anything as long as it happened or happens to someone else. NIMBY. Let criminals have home visits with all NYT comments writers. Then let's see what happens.
2
"More tv and ice cream for prisoners. More empathy for criminals"
No, hon. Just fewer beatings.
No, hon. Just fewer beatings.
9
I don't think you get it. When the guards act like the prisoners, what's the difference between them? Do you really think that it's okay for guards to beat prisoners and basically torture them? What's the difference between them then?
-also a veteran
-also a veteran
12
Mr./Ms. Veteran you think that the guards who beat up those inmates are at no fault?. We are nation of laws. Those inmates are doing time for their crimes and we have a constitution which doesn't allow cruel and unusual punishment. What guards did was wrong. I thought as veteran you will understand what we stand for and fight for.
7
Why is this headline not a surprise?
15
Where is the Justice Department? Between Cuomo's sham commissions and these allegations of correctional abuse, it appears that the Cuomo administration is running a corrupt enterprise and only the Feds can stop him since NY voters are incapable of addressing the problem at the ballot box.
15
I really believe if the guards did all this they should be in the same jail as the prisoners they beat. As long as we're taking complaints from aggrieved parties, Patrick Alexanders victims, or I should say their next of kin, would like to report that they continue to have no concern whatsoever for the life and comfort of Patrick Alexander. The fact that a murderer is afforded any privileges at all in prison, much less the right to complain about their removal, is a curious stance for a department purporting to devote itself to justice. In any case, provided the Department of Justice, such as it is, promises to in the future devote at least as much time to confirming murderous sociopaths are not running free again as they do to ensuring that murderers are not receiving even a tenth of the suffering they have inflicted on others... I guess we can call it a win-win.
3
The prison guards were ticked-off because they realized the breakout could
result in the closure of the facility. Close the prison, lose the prison union job.
Good-bye to: Fat pay check, overtime, double time, triple time, full medical with no co-pay and deductible, 6 weeks vacation, and the grand prize- false workmen compensation and extended disability claims. Every year scores of union prison guards "slip and fall" on the job and receive FULL salary and benefits until they "heal" themselves- standard duration is 6 months, then another guard files a claim.
If I were a Clinton prison guard about to lose those perks, I'd be shouting and beating the convicts too.
result in the closure of the facility. Close the prison, lose the prison union job.
Good-bye to: Fat pay check, overtime, double time, triple time, full medical with no co-pay and deductible, 6 weeks vacation, and the grand prize- false workmen compensation and extended disability claims. Every year scores of union prison guards "slip and fall" on the job and receive FULL salary and benefits until they "heal" themselves- standard duration is 6 months, then another guard files a claim.
If I were a Clinton prison guard about to lose those perks, I'd be shouting and beating the convicts too.
11
Just about anyone with a job, especially if it's union and/or pays a salary with benefits comes in for this derision. As if the solution for the country's ills is for everyone to have a job without benefits and at low pay.
That these comments are probably written, based on some indicators, not by those in the professional class but probably by many in the working class can make a body wonder. Gore Vidal's quote, "The genius of the American aristocracy is their ability to talk the people out of their own interests," continues to see its applucation across (confused) elements of the population.
That these comments are probably written, based on some indicators, not by those in the professional class but probably by many in the working class can make a body wonder. Gore Vidal's quote, "The genius of the American aristocracy is their ability to talk the people out of their own interests," continues to see its applucation across (confused) elements of the population.
3
You obviously don't know what you're talking about....there is no double or triple time pay or full medical benefits with no co-pays or deductibles and vacation time is 2 weeks with paid holidays or you can bank those....so before you go spouting lies you should get your information correct
3
Does anyone doubt that we live in a authoritarian country now? Are there any good men in positions of authority, and if so, where are they? Unspeakable events keep taking place, more people are under the control of the state, minorities are under attack as well as poor people. White men armed with killing machines walk the streets in Ferguson, MO with no repercussion from the law. Judges approve of open carry in elementary schools in Kentucky. The right wing conservative politicians in league with the SCOTUS has rendered us nothing but prisoners in our own once free country. Don't make a false move lest you be beat down or killed. Protect and serve is a joke. Tail light out? Be very careful.
22
Seems to me a lot of y'all need some perspective. Prisons are a rather brutal place anyway, and they need a ton of improvements, particularly not sending people to them unless we really have to, rather than just sending people there because they had some weed in their car and weren't white.
This report of some beatings, none of which seem to have resulted in death nor maiming, is absolutely nothing compared to the constant, nationwide, overcrowding, miserable conditions, rapes, murders, suicides, and the overuse of the incredibly torturous solitary confinement. I'd much rather get beaten up in a non-maiming way for a few days than get put in solitary confinement ("the hole") for a month, which is standard procedure in many prisons.
So y'all are missing the forest because of this one tree. This was a tiny, passing problem, and to focus on it instead of the overwhelming and horrible constant problems is rather silly I think.
This report of some beatings, none of which seem to have resulted in death nor maiming, is absolutely nothing compared to the constant, nationwide, overcrowding, miserable conditions, rapes, murders, suicides, and the overuse of the incredibly torturous solitary confinement. I'd much rather get beaten up in a non-maiming way for a few days than get put in solitary confinement ("the hole") for a month, which is standard procedure in many prisons.
So y'all are missing the forest because of this one tree. This was a tiny, passing problem, and to focus on it instead of the overwhelming and horrible constant problems is rather silly I think.
12
I am not clear on the distinction you are trying to make; no one said this was unusual, and it isn't either/or - some of them were thrown in solitary, too.
Nobody, goes to prison for having a joint, that's a liberal myth. People in prison for weed. Either had large amounts or they had a mutitude of charges against them. How do I know? I was caught with a joint before, I didn't get arrested much less go to jail.
It's not as if one must choose between unjust beatings and extended solitary confinement. BOTH are wrong, both are moral and ethical outrages.
5
There should be an interactive graphic on which prisons have had complaints against guards and which of those prisons are in the hands of private corporations. Not that it really matters whether the guards are employed by private corporations or by the state, but I'm curious.
Thank you to the people who compared the Clinton Correctional Facility situation to Attica. I was young when that scandal broke and I forgot about it.
Thank you to the people who compared the Clinton Correctional Facility situation to Attica. I was young when that scandal broke and I forgot about it.
17
All I could think as I read this article was "Attica" again. As far as I can see, the only difference is that the reports of abuse are being made public immediately and not ignored for years. The comments from Gov. Cuomo sound all too similar to the attitude of then Gov. Rockefeller.
I am not surprised by any of this, but I am angry, sad and frustrated. Will our elected officials never learn?
I am not surprised by any of this, but I am angry, sad and frustrated. Will our elected officials never learn?
22
Awful-those guards should be charged with cruel and unusual punishment, grounds for firing. Federal charges. The men on the Honor Block were probably bullied by Matt & Sweat. Then beaten for obeying the rules and not escaping too. I knew a prison guard-he'd do anything to protect his precious State Pension. That meant treating prisoners like dirt, just to fit in the culture. But it wasn't in his nature. One day his heart just exploded. On the job.
11
Donna,
You have to get past thinking Americans care anything beyond their own small scope of purview. People don't care if prisoners are tortured, murdered, forced into suicide, kept in solitary until insanity results. They think it all good. America has no empathy, sympathy, or concern. You can tell them 24/7 that there are innocent people behind bars, people that were only caught with a joint in their pocket, people that committed non-violent financial crimes of incredibly small amounts, or failed to signal a turn, and they will applaud their beating and torture.
It's sad to live among these cretins, but that is our fate.
We live in a police/torture state that make the East German Stasi look like the Salvation Army.
You have to get past thinking Americans care anything beyond their own small scope of purview. People don't care if prisoners are tortured, murdered, forced into suicide, kept in solitary until insanity results. They think it all good. America has no empathy, sympathy, or concern. You can tell them 24/7 that there are innocent people behind bars, people that were only caught with a joint in their pocket, people that committed non-violent financial crimes of incredibly small amounts, or failed to signal a turn, and they will applaud their beating and torture.
It's sad to live among these cretins, but that is our fate.
We live in a police/torture state that make the East German Stasi look like the Salvation Army.
1
I wonder if we would be reading this story had these two escaped from Sing Sing and been on the loose in Westchester County for two weeks.
6
"I wonder if we would be reading this story had these two escaped from Sing Sing and been on the loose in Westchester County for two weeks"
+5, man. You have 20/20 vision.
+5, man. You have 20/20 vision.
2
Seriously folks, given the confined space and the ability of prisoners to get nearly anything they want, with our without the guards, do you really believe the official were embarrassed? Both of these men were killers and we on the loose. Do you think either one of them would have spared your life if the choice was between their escape and your life? The other prisoners were cheering their escape - sudden heroes. No one knew what was happening? No one heard the hammering and sawing?
7
I don't like criminals either, but this is still no rationale for torture.
7
Certainly not the zzzzzzing prison guards, whose job is to stay awake and do their j-o-b.
7
If the guards had been doing their jobs and patrolling at night, THEY would have heard the hammering etc. Are you saying that, because the guards didn't do their jobs and other prisoners wouldn't risk welching on the escapees, the prisoners deserved a beating? Come on!
9
It is bad enough that we treat prisoners more inhumanely than most
Western nations, with little chance for redemption, and prison sentences
frequently are in excess of the crime, but this is really too much. I read it with a mixture of horror and disbelief. Just a few weeks ago, the NY Times ran a feature story on the positive conditions of German prisons, where the employees are screened and trained for work with the prisoners, who then come out with job skills and mainly do not return. What a contrast with our prisons here, which need an overhaul top to bottom, starting with the people hired to work with prisoners...
Western nations, with little chance for redemption, and prison sentences
frequently are in excess of the crime, but this is really too much. I read it with a mixture of horror and disbelief. Just a few weeks ago, the NY Times ran a feature story on the positive conditions of German prisons, where the employees are screened and trained for work with the prisoners, who then come out with job skills and mainly do not return. What a contrast with our prisons here, which need an overhaul top to bottom, starting with the people hired to work with prisoners...
22
The prison staff in this area should be investigated and prosecuted if warranted. The whole prison administration seems incompetent and a general "housecleaning" seems necessary.
7
Where is Gov. Cuomo now? He was so quick to leave Albany like he was U.S. Marshal Samuel Gerard and act as he was leading the search. For someone who never met a tv camera he did not like, where is the governor?
When is he going to hold a press conference and take charge of the investigation?
It is obvious that the only individuals that will make the city or state corrections department to behave within the constitution is a federal judge. Forget trying to reason with these people.
Regardless of the public announcements about these guards being prosecuted according to the law, they knew ahead of time that any abuse would be accompanied by a "wink, wink, nod, nod" by those in charge.
When is he going to hold a press conference and take charge of the investigation?
It is obvious that the only individuals that will make the city or state corrections department to behave within the constitution is a federal judge. Forget trying to reason with these people.
Regardless of the public announcements about these guards being prosecuted according to the law, they knew ahead of time that any abuse would be accompanied by a "wink, wink, nod, nod" by those in charge.
11
The long arm of the law must extend to those charged with enforcing it, including prison employees and the police. No whitewashing abuse.
10
The next time I get called for jury duty, how am I supposed to keep an open mind? Do I know that the police have engaged in the systematic abuse of civil liberties through stop and frisk? That rather than raise taxes to support municipal functions, towns fleece the poor with exorbitant fines? Have I not watched the videos where the police essentially executed people and then lied about it? Do I know that judges appear to be unaccountable when they abuse their power? That prosecutors manipulate people into plea bargains? And even if I truly believe that someone is guilty, how can I justify sending them to jails and prisons where they can be beaten or tortured by years in solitary confinement? How can any country function when its citizens know its legal system to be corrupt?
23
One of the major original purposes of the jury system was to allow citizens to push back against a tyrannical crown whether the accused was formally guilty or not. Jury nullification isn't an undermining of the system, it was the point.
You'd best bet that the Guards union will be doubling down contributions to on Cuomo if none of their ilk faces charges.
It appears that the C.O's are just a better armed prison gang.
It appears that the C.O's are just a better armed prison gang.
5
It is sad and disturbing to see what the United States has become. How are these prison workers getting away with this criminal behavior?
5
The ones who should have been beaten are the Chief of Security, Warden and those officers who were just drawing a pay check. The convicts who would have given information on this escape, they called them snitch or informers knew, they could not trust any of the officers or the Administration without endangering their lives.
7
The warden had just taken the job after they corrections in NYS begged him too. He was warden for maybe 6 months. So don't blame all this on him. I am from Mslome and feel bad he has been demonized.
Cuomo,as HUD Secretary,gave us the mortgage crisis with no money down,no job verification,etc.That led to the financial meltdown in 2008.NYorkers were dumb enough to elect him as Governor.The prison break was an Abbott and Costello comedy act.Now the beatings have begun under Cuomo's watch.Good Luck,New Yorkers;you've got a real gem as Governor.
11
Mr. Pot, meet Mr. Kettle.
These poor innocent inmates----my gosh---let's all hand wring in unison
7
You are partial to criminals on the payroll?
1
Decrying prison beatings is hand wringing? Wow, maybe the people who say we're becoming more and more of a police state are correct.
Gee, the governor of and the correctional officers in New York must not be too popular with the tried and found guilty in the press crowd. Give a poor dog a bone!
2
"...inmates described a strikingly similar litany of abuses..." Strikingly similar? As in recited or rehearsed? Aren't there cameras all over the place? Let's see the evidence.
6
Auschwitz survivors also had "strikingly similar" accounts of their experiences. Do you think that that means that they all got together afterwards and made it up?
Wake up! These guards are themselves criminals and need to be behind bars.
Wake up! These guards are themselves criminals and need to be behind bars.
1
Gosh yes, Kathy, there's no way the prison staff knows where those pesky cameras are--or how to avoid them. And you betcha all those prisoners got together and concocted their stories: convicts rarely get treated poorly in prison!
1
What part of broom closet don't you get, Kathy?
Guards carry baton's that they are commonly known to use to beat inmates. Inmates that have reported the abuse have nothing to gain. They have lost all their belongings, they have been transferred to other facilities and some put in solitary confinement. They will not be awarded money and hopefully the people who abused them will be fired but that is unlikely. The inmates are not allowed to defend themselves against guards. If guards fear for their safety they will handcuff the inmates then beat them. If it's reported to medical they will be beaten more and refused medical if they even got it in the first place. These guards behave as if they are assigned to dole out punishment and that is not their job. They are assigned to keep inmates safe and the public safe from the inmates. It's extremely common for guards to sleep all during their shifts overnight. All guards at all prisons should go through security, they should go through a scanner just like visitors. NYT look into how many guards and administration staff have been fired for sleeping with inmates and providing drugs to inmates. It happens often in NYS Facilities. Guards OFTEN steal from food packages that inmates families bring to the facility for the inmate. I have personally had them steal twice out of packages I have left. Every visitor I have spoken to have their have been dozens have said they too have had items stolen from the packages they leave. Many have written Cuomo, he defers to the people that steal.
15
Perhaps it's time to re-call Cuomo.
14
The guards are also criminals. Read "The Lucifer Effect" by Philip Zimbardo, a classic which is not appreciated.... or if you are short on time Google "The Stanford Prison Experiment".
6
If it weren't for the town name in the opening paragraph, the beginning of the article reads as a depiction of a typical day in Bagram or Abu Ghraib prisons.
17
Exactly what I said in my comment.
One can learn much about a society from how it treats those accused of crimes. This treatment is no different from state-sponsored murder (known euphemistically as the "death penalty.") It temporarily quenches a primal bloodlust but advances no meaningful societal goals. It is callous retribution.
9
Can anyone explain how this was the fault of anyone but the guards, whose sole function is to make sure that convicts do not escape? What a bunch of childish thugs. At this point it is tough to get angry; I am depressed that we have regressed so quickly. These men did not collude to make this horrifying tale up out of thin air, if anything the recent spotlight that has been turned on rampant institutionally sanctioned violence tells us that these HUMAN BEINGS are more likely telling the truth, what do they have to gain by lying? Their sentences will stand regardless. We are a bloodthirsty and sadistic people; torture and bombings are our specialty, human rights are something that only matter abroad because "we are exceptional". We sentence the mentally ill to death or years in solitary confinement, we build more prisons than schools, unarmed minorities are subjected to summary sentencing and execution by our police for small-time infractions, the state of our infrastructure is a disgrace, we have recently decided that the wealthy deserve a greater say in our political process because they are rich, and prisoners are subject to cruel and unusual punishment (obvious violation of the 8th amendment regardless of their crimes)... Apart from our GDP statistics and our ability to project overwhelming military power, what really makes us different from any nation in the Third World?
22
Well said. And I'm kind of glad you used the word "thugs" - I was perturbed and confused by the kerfuffle around the use of this word recently with the implication that it referred to young black men. To me, and, I think, to most of my generation (50+), the word in its non-Hindu usage simply means a violent hoodlum, a ruffian, a hooligan, without any racial implications. Therefore, a prison guard who abuses his position of power, who beats up prisoners who are supposed to be in his care, is indeed a thug.
1
Am I the only one who questions the, "life without parole", sentence? The Norway mass killer got twenty years, the maximum. Why, in the U.S., do some people get such draconian sentences and some are out in eight years for murder?
If they killed someone I knew or loved, I would feel differently, but people who are criminal victims are not the ones who decide the sentence, for good reason. After twenty years, what is the point? Revenge, is not a Constitutional right, and why is any official worth more then a wife/husband who is "accidentally" killed in a domestic dispute?
Mr. Sweat is probably mentally ill, but he's sane enough to know he has nothing to lose from trying to escape. If he were using that energy and focus on his own rehabilitation he could pin his hopes on a different kind of freedom.
If they killed someone I knew or loved, I would feel differently, but people who are criminal victims are not the ones who decide the sentence, for good reason. After twenty years, what is the point? Revenge, is not a Constitutional right, and why is any official worth more then a wife/husband who is "accidentally" killed in a domestic dispute?
Mr. Sweat is probably mentally ill, but he's sane enough to know he has nothing to lose from trying to escape. If he were using that energy and focus on his own rehabilitation he could pin his hopes on a different kind of freedom.
1
Where is the "Corrections" part in our prison system? Even for the most violent inmates, solely locking them up is not going to have a chance of rehabilitating them.
7
One can learn much about a society and its values by how it treats those accused of crimes. This behavior is no different from state-sponsored murder (known euphemistically as the "death penalty"), a form of bloodlust that
8
Why am I not surprised that Cuomo would judge someone like this without any evidence. The man's ego has become bigger than this state can handle. We need a term limit on the governorship. If we don't end this dictatorship system in this state (i.e. 3 men in a room), the term limit should be 1 term.
14
The guards should be prosecuted for assault and attempted murder.
23
If the prisoners stories are true the FBI should be interrogating the guards and the prisoners for federal charges since clearly NY will not investigate itself when Governor Cuomo condones torture.
19
Body cams for prison guards too.
12
Not one of these convicts has named a name, except for "Captain America" why should we believe them? and what is this honor block for anyway. it sounds like some dumb rehab idea that only enhances inmates ability to violate rules and receive contraband.
Sorry, no sympathy here.
Sorry, no sympathy here.
5
Captain America is a guard, not a prisoner. The commonalities among the prisoners' stories seems too strong to ignore.
3
Guess you can't read that the guards doing the beatings we strangers from elsewhere in the system - who intentionally wore no nametags? You believe law enforcement just because they're supposed to be good guys? Ever heard of Whitey Bulger in Chicago and his team of Chicago torture cops? How is it every prisoner on that cellblock, though separated and sent to different prisons, tells the same story about the same torturing and beating? How? Because it's true. Dirty cops are everywhere - Chicago has no corner on the market - nor does NYC. And as for dirty Govenors, well, don't get me started....
1
Seriously? It's an incentive offered by the prison system to encourage good behavior and make life easier for everyone including the guards. As noted the contraband was smuggled in by the people who worked there, not the prisoners.
And sleeping on the job allowed the drilling to occur. The reason no names are available is that the guys doing the torture wore no name tags and came from elsewhere. Eventually they will all be identified.
And sleeping on the job allowed the drilling to occur. The reason no names are available is that the guys doing the torture wore no name tags and came from elsewhere. Eventually they will all be identified.
6
Sad to say but this story like others will soon be forgotten as new scandals evolve. Prison abuses, incompetent governance, street violence, police brutality, torture, the so called "justice" system, all of it will just keep rolling on. Its the USA nearing the end of its life cycle. Fear not the enemy from afar. We will self-destruct from within.
5
That's nothing new. Things like that happen on a daily basis in prison across the nation. I know first hand. I did 8 years in New Jersey State Prisons for an aggravated assault, serving from 2000 until 2009. Bayside State Prison in Leesburg, New Jersey was/is the most notorious for Officers abusing inmates on a regular basis. I did appreciate. 3 years of my time there, and the Co's beat inmates, tortured inmates, verbally abused inmates all day, every day. Is disgusting what the Correction Officers are allowed to get away with. People have been killed at both prisons by officers without cause. They've been investigated by the feds with little or no results, the state can't /won't do anything about it, the NJDOC could care less, and that's because the public really doesn't care, until one of their friends or relatives ends up in one of these places. Most people think we'll they're a bunch of criminals, it probably isn't true, but even if it is, so what, they're Killers, rapists, etc.. Well, it is true, it is happening, and people should take into consideration that most, probably more than 80%,are there for short sentences for non violent offences!?!? So, God forbid one of your kids gets caught, some ecstasy, or argues with some cop one night when he's had a few too many beers and the cops beat the crap out of him and falsely charge him with assaults and resisting arrest, which is what they do, and they say he's getting sent there. We'll, then you'll care.
12
On the flip side, the one first mentioned in this story, Patrick Alexander is neither non-violent nor there for a short sentence. I join the call for an investigation on the simple grounds that we must all obey the law. It's that simple. As to any specific sympathy for the health and well-being of Patrick Alexander (to say nothing of his "right" to privileges that he's "earned" through "good behavior")... if I only had the words to soothe this victim of grave injustice. What kind of world is this where a murderer might at any moment come to harm? I, for one, will be petitioning for our leadership to make the physical, emotional, and spiritual welfare of Patrick Alexander and every other murderous (such a harsh word) citizens our number one priority. After all, who knows? One day, our own children (those that survive the attacks of the Patrick Alexanders of the world) may thank us.
and the US routinely accuses other countries of human rights abuses in prisons. What a very sad story-I do hope there will be not only outrage, but a thorough investigation and cleaning up. Governor Cuomo, you will have to get busy!
9
With his "tough guy state," why do I think Cuomo might be complicit?
1
Capitalism 101. I haven't read the article, but I can only guess. Don't underestimate the pressures of work on the middle class. I'm sure lawyers and bus drivers would waterboards fellow workers in a desperate attempt to keep their jobs and support their families. We're all desperately oppressed people. I feel sorry for just about everyone I meet.
4
the same kind of "law enforcement officers" that shoot people in the back at work here? Prejudiced, demented, untrained, unworthy of the jobs they hold.
6
Wow this could be Missouri or many of the other backwaters in America that you love to poke fun at. What is going on here - it is NY State??
7
As long as Cuomo is in office they should change the signs at the New York State borders from “Welcome to New York” to “Welcome to North Korea.”
23
You must still be wet behind the ears (regardless of your age) if you think this would not have happened regardless of who was the governor.
1
North Korea? Please.
Why limit to Cuomo?
I usually dismiss any claims made by convicts. But these claims sound credible. It appears prison officials and the Governor were embarrassed by the escape from an escape proof prison. The longer the prisoners were on the loose the greater the embarrassment so prison officials were taking their anger and frustration out on the prisoners left behind. I don't agree with beating up prisoners. Though it is hard to believe that none of the other prisoners knew of Matt and Sweats plans.
7
And we believe wer're more civilized than al Queda or ISIS.
23
Sure, we didn't behead or burn alive a single one of them. So we are, sorry about that.
1
bnc - How many heads were removed from the prisoner's bodies?
1
Yes bcn, the beheadings start tomorrow. Get serious.
2
There is NO excuse for beating human beings...period. I am ashamed of my state and our government.
44
Very much agree with you Create Peace. Those who authorized this, and those involved should be prosecuted because they acted no better than sadistic criminals themselves.
3
OK, when they do the movie they have to make a slight embellishment:
Must have kept you awake with all that cutting, huh?” Mr. Cuomo asked. "No", Mr. Alexander said, "but I bet it will keep you up a few nights," as he stared Cuomo down.
Must have kept you awake with all that cutting, huh?” Mr. Cuomo asked. "No", Mr. Alexander said, "but I bet it will keep you up a few nights," as he stared Cuomo down.
14
if he didn't hear a thing bet the food he give him was laced with something which in is his defense he was gone to sleepy time & it was done on purpose so he wouldn't hear a thing....they were tight with the correction officers which has been proven already,fish & bet you will find some more dirt.......as for Cuomo he is not the man his father was.......
Am I surprised that these mentally healthy deficient CO's resorted to these tactics? No. No difference whether those in prison or those bad apples in a particular police department. So, who do you blame? The warden? Whether the warden or any other psychotic personnel (including Coumo), their IQ's obviously have no place any situations- especially when it involves human rights (yes, this is the US not Turkey or Saudi Arabia).
Multiple issues here....Incompetence....mis-directing that incompetence (hence the Co's beating innocent prisoners), and finally the idiot Governor who can't hold a candle to his father.
There is never a sole explanation when people's behavior becomes a factor. CO's, prisoners, the Gov, etc. All have their sole interests. BUT in the end, like many inept and psychotic people, the true reasons and fault are all too often lost.
Yes, GITMO revisited, but is anyone surprised?
Multiple issues here....Incompetence....mis-directing that incompetence (hence the Co's beating innocent prisoners), and finally the idiot Governor who can't hold a candle to his father.
There is never a sole explanation when people's behavior becomes a factor. CO's, prisoners, the Gov, etc. All have their sole interests. BUT in the end, like many inept and psychotic people, the true reasons and fault are all too often lost.
Yes, GITMO revisited, but is anyone surprised?
11
agree the Gov. is not 1/2 the person his father was.
3
I am reminded of the prerelease education training as part of my college degree program where I toured Dannamora Prison. A major portion of the education (stated here in its simplest form) ALWAYS TAKE ANYTHING A PRISONER SAYS WITH A GRAIN OF SALT. They will say what they say to get what they want. These guys always have a personal agenda....
How blind and naive NYTIMES and many posters are!
Oh....ps. Should the guards be offering candy for information? We are dealing with manipulative hardened criminals.
How blind and naive NYTIMES and many posters are!
Oh....ps. Should the guards be offering candy for information? We are dealing with manipulative hardened criminals.
11
That statement sounds more like the legal system trying to support their corrupt nature by saying Don't listen to them, they're criminals... It's a sad state of affair with the callous nature of our society. These are people...some of them I can agree did heinous crimes but a lot and I mean a LOT are there for minor infractions...a person late on child support payments is a "hardened criminal"? If you can answer that with a yes, without question, I feel sad for you.
7
Lets see, the guards don't patrol where they should be patrolling and sneak food and other contraband into the prison and 2 prisoners escape. Everyone assumes that there's no way that staff could be involved, the Gov states it emphatically. Only problem, like most of what the Gov says, it wasn't true. Staff are arrested, and reassigned.
After the escape was discovered the prisoners in question (in the honor block) were sealed off from contact with each other and the outside world and are transferred to several different prisons, yet remarkably they all have very similar stories about the 48 hours after the escape when questioned weeks later.
How could that be? Either they are relating experiences that actually happened, or, aligned their stories about abuse while hundreds of miles away from each other... yea, that makes perfect sense....
After the escape was discovered the prisoners in question (in the honor block) were sealed off from contact with each other and the outside world and are transferred to several different prisons, yet remarkably they all have very similar stories about the 48 hours after the escape when questioned weeks later.
How could that be? Either they are relating experiences that actually happened, or, aligned their stories about abuse while hundreds of miles away from each other... yea, that makes perfect sense....
6
First thing one learns in a correctional facility.
How do you know if inmates are lying?
Their lips are moving.
How do you know if inmates are lying?
Their lips are moving.
Why are people not keeping better eye out for this. There has been more occasions regarding police and correctional facility officers in the past couple of years then ever. Many people just look past things because they think that they are police officers and that its ok but in reality its not.
11
Numerous suicides here in northeastern Ohio prisons for a number of years. Guards not on top of things.
so true.....have one child that works on the REZ has a BA but his higher ups have no schooling and worthless yet they are the supervisors trying to get rid of their chief who worked in the private sector since the REZ is ran by the BIA (which is the federal government agency that runs the Indians in all 50 states)& the good old boy network & she wants change....she wants to know why these clowns who have no education have such high paying jobs no college & just winging it are in charge....every time they get a chief who has a brain they fired then & paid of the rest of their contract.Good solid police is far & few in between..hard to trust then if they do their own wrong what can we expect from then.
the gov was much in view during the hunt for the cons... wonder if he'll show up for the chase now that its his outfit on the run.
15
Hello? Mr and Mrs federal government... Are you reading this? Why haven't I seen any charges filed against the NY prison system and that smug governor?
19
thou shalt not cast aspersions on sitting governors of the same party.
It's in the of politics somewhere.
It's in the of politics somewhere.
Paging Preet Bharara. Your rationale for nailing our sleazy governor has been presented on a silver waterboard...
2
Lawrence, you're wrong. I'm a Democrat who can recognize sleaze, no matter which party it resides in.
1
Sounds like something out of 'Shawshank Redemption.'
11
What does one expect.....tough sentencing laws caused by the prison guards union threatening law makers with losing elections......Overall I suspect the entire prison system in the nation.......when one balances benefit vs. negatives.....is a wash or worse. In other words better not to lock the bad guys up than to have this system. Anyway how do we determine who is a bad guy? Like are there no bad guys in the C suites? Ha.
2
This is the governor's responsibility. Write to him about this here: Let his office know you do not support torture while taxpayers foof the salaries of the torturers https://www.governor.ny.gov/contact
17
Well, this should be an interesting story to follow-up!
8
We have seen how disgraceful the conduct of the GUARDS and EMPLOYEES at that cesspool of a prison has been and yet we tolerate the ILLEGAL ABUSE of inmates. We have digressed in our understanding of crime and punishment and rehabilitation. We fail to understand that it is our DUTY AS A SOCIETY to recondition prisoners to reenter society as lawful and productive members. We used to provide the means for rehabilitation and now all we do is focus on brutal retribution (and hire the lowest of the low as prison employees). It's no wonder that civil unrest is increasing. Remember folks, the value of a society is judged by how we treat the LOWEST among us.
29
And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done [it] unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done [it] unto me Mathew 25:40
1
What will you do about this Gov'nor?
These guys need to be tried & sent away--never work state again. Lose their pensions.
What will you do? Nuthing. They sound like your brothers--bullies like you.
These guys need to be tried & sent away--never work state again. Lose their pensions.
What will you do? Nuthing. They sound like your brothers--bullies like you.
14
"brutal tactics that most likely violated department regulations."
Really? Beating prisoners while they're handcuffed, slamming their heads against walls, transferring ones who have earned some comfort by years of good behavior to worse places -- those things "might" violate regulations?
Really? Beating prisoners while they're handcuffed, slamming their heads against walls, transferring ones who have earned some comfort by years of good behavior to worse places -- those things "might" violate regulations?
18
Here is the thing, in the training of workers for the juvenile justice system of New York staff are trained to "see skin" when they do bed checks through the evening and night shifts. It is hard to believe that corrections staff who deal with a more experienced criminal population would not receive the same training. So it seems that through negligence over and over this simple way of determining if an inmate was "on the count" was not used. To me this speaks to an astounding and consistent disregard for the most basic security measures by multiple staff across shifts and pass days. The really is trouble in River City.
2
Guess he shouldn't be in prison then, should he? They complain about food, visitation, their bunks being hard, being too hot, being too cold. Not enough gym equipment. Too bad they didn't get a job, work and take care of their families.
4
Carol,
You don't get it.
I don't like prisoners any more than you and believe in punishment; however, a civililized nation punishes people who beat and torture animals. How is it that treating a human being worse than an animal ok?
If any one story of this article is true the whole country-not just New York- should shudder.
What have we become if we approve of this?
You don't get it.
I don't like prisoners any more than you and believe in punishment; however, a civililized nation punishes people who beat and torture animals. How is it that treating a human being worse than an animal ok?
If any one story of this article is true the whole country-not just New York- should shudder.
What have we become if we approve of this?
3
Carol, not everyone was as fortunate as you to have a neat little upbringing and life. As Jesus said "He who is without SIN cast the first stone." If you read the Bible in Deuteronomy God set up what he called the "Cities of Refuge" where those who committed rash criminal acts could go instead of being stoned, etc. Sad to think that God is more humane than man who he created with a heart. Thank God Carol that he even has mercy on your soul if you ask him to.
1
Exactly the same kind of "law enforcement officers" that shoot people in the black. Power hungry, justice challenged, demented enforcement. hack thoo.
9
Your tax dollars at work. And oh these guys retire on full pensions plus their disability checks and the total is over 200k/yr and they are usually in their early fifties.
17
This part of the story curdled my blood:
"One officer stood in front of a window blocking the view into the room, he wrote, while another guard in a C.I.U. windbreaker tied a garbage bag around his neck, “using the plastic bag as a hanging noose.”
“I don’t know how long he hung me up like that because I passed out,” Mr. Aponte wrote.
This is the second time I have in my life heard of a plastic bag and hanging. Is this a jailer skill? How would Sandra know about it?
"One officer stood in front of a window blocking the view into the room, he wrote, while another guard in a C.I.U. windbreaker tied a garbage bag around his neck, “using the plastic bag as a hanging noose.”
“I don’t know how long he hung me up like that because I passed out,” Mr. Aponte wrote.
This is the second time I have in my life heard of a plastic bag and hanging. Is this a jailer skill? How would Sandra know about it?
30
Unfortunately for all of us, there is a very thin moral line between those inside and outside the bars.
18
Really? Maybe between you and them but that line is gigantic for me and mine.
Do you even have a clue about the "morality" of those behind the bars of a maximum security prison? Of how hard it is to end up there? Do people really believe that convicts in maximum security facilities are really just like them and ended up there through a misunderstanding or some minor drug arrest?
There is a very large line, actually a football field sized one, between the morals of average citizens and the supposed morals of the inmate populations in maximum security prisons. Wake up already.
Do you even have a clue about the "morality" of those behind the bars of a maximum security prison? Of how hard it is to end up there? Do people really believe that convicts in maximum security facilities are really just like them and ended up there through a misunderstanding or some minor drug arrest?
There is a very large line, actually a football field sized one, between the morals of average citizens and the supposed morals of the inmate populations in maximum security prisons. Wake up already.
This is the kind of journalism we used to get from the Washington Post. Tragically, in the Bezos/Ryan era, it no longer exists. Thank you New York Times.
19
I was going to write, "This is why we need the New York Times," but you did it for me.
10
Same two reporters who uncovered massive abuses at NYC's Rikers Island. Gentlemen, your Pulitzer awaits.
3
Seems like the Governor's visit set the tone for the ratings. New York, like a fish, stinks from the head.
16
They are blaming the inmates for the guards lazy behavior?? The people running the prison are incompetent, including Governor Cuomo!!!!!
21
This place sounds more like Shawshank Prison all the time, it should be closed.
4
Its amazing the guards take off their name tags and beat someone who is handcuffed, they also need to be arrested and charged and HOPEFULLY given a bigger sentence then OLD TILLIE is getting..Sounds like most of what works there is on the wrong side of the bars! Joyce Mitchell deserves way more than she is getting charged with, had she spoke up and went to the police instead of faking her anxiety attack they would of never got out in the first place and the taxpayers wouldn't be flipping the bill for the search! Doesn't look like she is being prosecuted to the fullest extent like the Governor said would happen. She needs to be fired and stripped of any retirement benefits she would of had, she needs to be sued for the search so when her book or movie comes out it all goes back to paying for the search. Finally she should be sued for the inmate that took the beating because she felt like helping two criminals escape!!
5
What did Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo know about the beatings and torture and when did he know it?
12
looks like the iraq war just came home. how we love to torture. were just a happy bunch of tortures. make these people [ guards ]pay for this so it doesn't happen again. this is the only way to stop this hell.
3
My taxes pay these guards salaries and I want them all FIRED. Immediately.
10
It appears the NYT is willing to accept statements from convicted killers, rapists, armed robbers, kidnappers...w/o addressing the reality that prison guards patrol w/o weapons. Most of these criminals have a motive to lie and deceive. Where is basis that guards abused them---photos, medical records?
4
Not only should they be charged the Governor and head of corrections should be charged under RICO.
9
Inhumane!! Period. There are no excuses nor justification for such viciousness. None, Nada. Zilch!
7
THE ENTIRE PRISON INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX IN THE U. S. . . . .
...including local jails needs a complete examination as to their practices and perhaps the term "correctional" institutions should actually refer to the word, "correctional."
When I saw the film "Midnight Express," I thought that these brutal behaviors were visited only in foreign countries. Now I realize that the prisons and jails are about the same as in Turkey.
Shame! This constitutes brutal and inhumane punishment as is said in the U. S. Constitution.
...including local jails needs a complete examination as to their practices and perhaps the term "correctional" institutions should actually refer to the word, "correctional."
When I saw the film "Midnight Express," I thought that these brutal behaviors were visited only in foreign countries. Now I realize that the prisons and jails are about the same as in Turkey.
Shame! This constitutes brutal and inhumane punishment as is said in the U. S. Constitution.
8
Appalling but not surprising.
Great reporting NY Times. Thank you.
Great reporting NY Times. Thank you.
13
Abu Ghraib was the worst thing ever for our nation. Did anyone think domestic jails are different?
9
The garbage bag used as a hanging implement sounds a LOT like what happened to Sandra Bland!
Is this something that jailers have learned from each other? Is this something that has gone on for many years?
Is this something that jailers have learned from each other? Is this something that has gone on for many years?
20
That is ridiculous. Coroners can tell the different between a suicide and a forced hanging; Ms. Bland's case was examined by the coroner and they determined she had done this herself.
Using plastic bags as a hanging device is not anything new, nor limited to prisoners.
Using plastic bags as a hanging device is not anything new, nor limited to prisoners.
1
The Attorney General should undertake an investigation, on the State's behalf of these allegations, and ultimately at least a grand jury report needs to be made. Any criminal prosecutions have to be removed from this county to receive fair trials.
Unfortunately, the County Attorney and County Executive better be prepared for the ensuing civil litigation by the subject inmates. And the Department of Corrections, should remediate the behavior and take civil disciplinary action of those alleged to have been involved. If the allegations are true, changes need to be made, up the entire chain of command. Especially since this is a one "business" town, this prison.
Granted the inmates are not nice people, and need to atone for their heinous crimes. However, there may be some who may have the ability and desire to change. And I believe this despite my contrary bias in these areas.
Unfortunately, the County Attorney and County Executive better be prepared for the ensuing civil litigation by the subject inmates. And the Department of Corrections, should remediate the behavior and take civil disciplinary action of those alleged to have been involved. If the allegations are true, changes need to be made, up the entire chain of command. Especially since this is a one "business" town, this prison.
Granted the inmates are not nice people, and need to atone for their heinous crimes. However, there may be some who may have the ability and desire to change. And I believe this despite my contrary bias in these areas.
7
I noticed it didn't take long for everyone to side with the criminals without hearing one word from any of the guards. That poor Mr Alexander. Cuomo gave him a dirty look. LOL
Yet Cuomo will not be held accountable, thanks Albany!
7
Is anyone the least bit surprised by this? I spend one night in jail in my life. I demanded my phone call and four guards took me to an empty cell, slammed me against the wall and kidney punched me. This is SOP.
17
In 1789, our nation enshrined in our Constitution the principle that a person does not cease to be a human being, with inalienable rights, when s/he is convicted of a crime. For far too long, those of us who hold great wealth and power and who have never been charged with anything more serious than a parking violation, have 'looked the other way' at the abuse that we all know is being committed daily by our police officers and correction officers. The abusers depend on two unspoken premises: (1) society wants and expects punishment of felons to go far beyond the deprivation of liberty -- solitary confinement, rape, beatings are all just fine with the silent majority; (2) none of us in the privileged classes will ever believe the word of a felon (or a powerless member of a minority group) over the word of a law enforcement officer. Both premises are utterly false. We have the best Constitution, and the most admirable founding principles, in the world. But until the conduct of every law enforcement officer is subject to independent civilian review, we will be no better than the oligarchies of Asia, Africa, and Latin America.
27
If it isn't about Afro-Americans in Ferguson being shot by white police it is about prisoners being held responsible for the corruption and incompetence of their guards. Quite a place that America.
13
You know, in any other country, they act like they do here, they'd be machine gunned to death. Or had their heads chopped off. We are lucky enough to live in the greatest country in the world but all we hear is whining and crying. I have never had an encounter with a policeman in 72 years because I OBEY THE LAWS.
Governor Cuomo's thinly veiled sarcasm and his barbed statement to the prisoner housed next door to Sweat and Matt "All that cutting and sawing must've kept you awake at night" gives almost implicit permission to these guards to pounce on this prisoner - whose guilt was assumed merely by his unfortunate cell location next to the two escapees. A Governor should have known better, and certainly should've known the repurcussions of his loose talk.
29
Ms. Kelley
If the FBI had need to investigate illegal activity during hours of darkness then how far away could interviews from your residence begin without assumption?
If the FBI had need to investigate illegal activity during hours of darkness then how far away could interviews from your residence begin without assumption?
It sounds like the guards are just the thugs on the other side of the bars.
3
Barbaric, just as the rest of the world perceives American law enforcement to be.
4
Appalling. But not surprising.
3
And earlier this year, the NYT reported on another instance of prisoner abuse, which came to light because of one prison nurse's courage and integrity. How many unconscionable acts must go on, unknown to those outside prison walls?
4
I kept thinking about the film "The Shawshank Redemption" while I was reading this story.
3
What these men describe is frighteningly similar to what the Chinese prisoner described on these pages a few days ago.
3
And why wouldn't the commenters here belief these career criminals? They see the guards and cops as inherently evil first. They'll take the word of hardened felons.
Just like they'll believe a criminal like Dorian Johnson over forensic science. You can kind of make up whatever around here to fit a narrative.
Just like they'll believe a criminal like Dorian Johnson over forensic science. You can kind of make up whatever around here to fit a narrative.
3
According to the NYS inmate website, Mr. Alexander is serving time for second degree murder. That was never mentioned in the article, and perhaps it has no bearing, but I wonder how many paragraphs the NYT gave to the story of his victim's killing at the hands of this poor guy who got beaten up by a couple of prison guards. Just sayin'
3
We need to know who ordered these interrogations. This is Ferguson Missouri comes to New York, another blatant abuse of state power. You would expect this in Russia or China. But maybe we should expect it in the US, too, given our recent track record.
Governor Cuomo isn't looking good here. He's a fraction of the man his father was.
Governor Cuomo isn't looking good here. He's a fraction of the man his father was.
21
Please, this is not Ferguson come to NY, because there were no reports of forcible interrogations in Ferguson. This was Abu Ghraib or Gitmo Bay come to NY, try to keep the story lines straight.
What struck me was the use of trash bags to strangle prisoners. If anyone doubts that Sandy Bland was strangled by others, here you go. And how convenient that one of those bags was put in her cell where it could be easily accessed.
11
Sorry NYT. Unable to conjure up sympathy for the other prisoners. Do have sympothy for the prisoner's victims however.
3
Ditto. And you can bet the other prisoners cheered themselves stupid when they found out 2 had escaped.
1
Well ok - but how about a little sympathy for the communities where these men return to having been beaten up?
If he or she's coming back to town in bad shape, broken from beatings and solitary and various other humiliations, with few skills or resources, how do you see this person becoming an asset rather than an ongoing liability?
Does "the punishment they deserve" make us safer or less safe once these men return?
If he or she's coming back to town in bad shape, broken from beatings and solitary and various other humiliations, with few skills or resources, how do you see this person becoming an asset rather than an ongoing liability?
Does "the punishment they deserve" make us safer or less safe once these men return?
2
Sounds like you are, rightfully, disdainful of those who commit crimes. Are you on the side of the victims when the criminals are in law enforcement?
3
Governor blow-hard strikes again. It was an inside job governor, inside by your employees. Yet the guards that got burnt were the worst of the criminals. I hope they get arrested and receive jail time for the crimes they committed. Doubtful with your record governor but warranted. Please do the right thing. No one is above the law, or so they say We're watching.
10
These are prisoners. Let's not kid ourselves, they're professional liars. And while I respect the reporting of the NY Times, I've seen the Times tricked more than once on these pages over the years. I'm not biting.
1
We allow summary torture of many prisoners in the U.S. placing them in solitary confinement for years, even decades, what's a few beatings by comparison. This is hypocrisy ! Stop this insanity !
6
Incompetents covering up their own failures.
5
Very few commenters (or the article's author) appear to have spent anytime in a correctional setting, lest they would point out an obvious fact. Inmates run prisons, and many have nothing but time. So if you are a guard who goes around roughing up inmates, you are and will forever be marked. The inmates will eventually get you, and it will not end well for you. Guards who want to live know this. That alone causes me to doubt many of these accounts of abuse.
1
I have worked in NY DOCCS for over 27 years as a teacher and as an administrator. I have never seen inmates being abused as a normal practice. Of course there are some officers and teachers, counsellors and other employees who are basically bad people who harass inmates and outmates. In everyday proceedings professionalism prevails for the most part. People forget that these are cruel criminals most of whom continue their bad behavior inside the walls. If an officer is not around they will swallow the civilian employees alive. Greatest manipulators. Hats off to the people tolerating such negative, hostile atmosphere for a living.
2
I have two thoughts; one, in the military an officer is "responsible for all things that happen or fail to happen on his watch." Regardless of what good (or lack thereof) done on this governor's watch, he owes it to the people of the state and the nation to tender his resignation. Two, the corrections officers and their command structure are guilty on two levels. The officers should be charged with at least felony assault and, if found guilty, sentenced to the maximum for the charges. The chain of command should resign or accept a demotion to walking the blocks at night.
10
Loretta Lynch and the rest of Obama's apologists for crime and criminals will be on their way to Clinton Correctional in a heartbeat to protect the constitutional rights of the prisoners who claim abuse. Obama will then issue a blanket pardon for all inmates involved, as he did recently with a presidential pardon for 46 convicted felons doing time in prison. This administration never met a felon they could not excuse or blame society (and especially white society) for imprisoning.
1
No one should be surprised: such conduct is how guards--consider the examples of Nazi and Khmer Rouge guards--treated inmates after other prisoners escaped. One purpose is to inflict punishment on those at hand; another is to create a moral deterrent to future escapes, as potential escapees realize that they will guarantee punishment of their associates.
7
Are the guards actions systematic of a poorly run institution or the result of a poorly managed prison system? Governor Cuomo has yet to answer this question or do any fact finding. He cannot run and he cannot hide from this problem. The New York State prisons are his responsibility.
7
I'm sure that they were all innocent of the crimes they were incarcerated for, as well.
1
No, they probably aren't innocent. But that gives guards the license to beat them? What country is this, Afghanistan?
I think they may have been able to hear something, too, but what good would that info do now, anyway?
I think they may have been able to hear something, too, but what good would that info do now, anyway?
1
Consider for a moment what kind of individual would be attracted to working in a prison as a guard. Not a job one would brag about. Not a job that leads to great opportunities. What is really pathetic about this story is that the guards who assaulted the prisoners will not be held accountable (Attica redux). Maybe the guards are turned into animals by association with prisoners, or maybe the prisoners become hardened criminals for life by how the guards treat them? Are we attempting to reform criminal behavior or reinforce it?
7
Could be they are people who need a job and would rather work in a prison than be on welfare or selling drugs. Not very many can work under the conditions they do.
This story is a shame and an embarrassment to the New York State penal system, which is obviously severely broken and in need of reform and oversight. And why have we not heard of any follow-ups on the recent Riker's Island scandals? Because what goes on behind the iron bars in jails is mostly unseen by the rest of society. And, in time, stories like this, that tend to implicate government run institutions, seem to fade away and are quickly forgotten. So the disease continues to flourish, unchecked.
12
As painful as it is to read this article, I am not surprised in the least.
This is what it looks like when the State (the government, politicians, judges, admins, secretaries and other officials who run a nation "on behalf" of the people) puts itself above those folks who are its citizens. For all fancy words in the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution, the government of the US has never been "by the people, for the people" because the WE in "We the People" was a small gaggle of 50 or so land owning white men in a hot hall in Philly. The system they designed was one that guaranteed THEIR freedom, wealth and stability--in that order.
And since you "retired" all of the suits who run Dannemora, you have to move higher up the food chain. The official in charge of the state DOC is an appointee--a politician as per norm--so you have him resign next. And then when the press begin to pressure the governor about whether he knew of the Gitmo-style interrogations, Cuomo will make a softball statement about how the state of NY is so very large and he cannot possible watch every official under his auspices and prevent every abuse, blah blah blah.
And yet the escapees are the news sensation?
With every passing fiscal year, America looks more and more like "House of Cards," and that metaphor is apt here. Everyone wants to get elected and no one wants to govern. And pols can now beat those who embarrass the State in the name of the State--in the name of the People.
This is what it looks like when the State (the government, politicians, judges, admins, secretaries and other officials who run a nation "on behalf" of the people) puts itself above those folks who are its citizens. For all fancy words in the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution, the government of the US has never been "by the people, for the people" because the WE in "We the People" was a small gaggle of 50 or so land owning white men in a hot hall in Philly. The system they designed was one that guaranteed THEIR freedom, wealth and stability--in that order.
And since you "retired" all of the suits who run Dannemora, you have to move higher up the food chain. The official in charge of the state DOC is an appointee--a politician as per norm--so you have him resign next. And then when the press begin to pressure the governor about whether he knew of the Gitmo-style interrogations, Cuomo will make a softball statement about how the state of NY is so very large and he cannot possible watch every official under his auspices and prevent every abuse, blah blah blah.
And yet the escapees are the news sensation?
With every passing fiscal year, America looks more and more like "House of Cards," and that metaphor is apt here. Everyone wants to get elected and no one wants to govern. And pols can now beat those who embarrass the State in the name of the State--in the name of the People.
10
The Stanford Prison Experiment and other literature describe the dynamic of the role of guard and prisoner. The Stanford experiment was suspended before it was completed because just assuming the role of guard and prisoner for a short time seemed to transform the subjects’ ethos. Historical examples of this phenomena abound (see Abu Ghriab).
In that regard, as the guard watches over the prisoner, someone must watch over the guard and his warden. After reading this news story, I wonder if ordinary prison guards questioning prisoners about an escape is legally sanctioned under NY Law or even makes sense if it is allowed. Only a professional independent interrogator from the department of corrections (here it would be the department of internal investigations) should be allowed to conduct an interrogation, taped and under oath, with enhanced penalties for perjury and protection for inmates. If prison guards and personnel were known to have been involved, as in this instance, the matter should have been referred to the NY Attorney Generals office to investigate, or so it seems to me.
In that regard, as the guard watches over the prisoner, someone must watch over the guard and his warden. After reading this news story, I wonder if ordinary prison guards questioning prisoners about an escape is legally sanctioned under NY Law or even makes sense if it is allowed. Only a professional independent interrogator from the department of corrections (here it would be the department of internal investigations) should be allowed to conduct an interrogation, taped and under oath, with enhanced penalties for perjury and protection for inmates. If prison guards and personnel were known to have been involved, as in this instance, the matter should have been referred to the NY Attorney Generals office to investigate, or so it seems to me.
138
Those running the prison, may miss the deterioration of the prisoners' ethos, although obvious to an outsider. In the Stanford Prison Experiment, you'll recall that the psychologist, the "warden," running the experiment was unaware of this deterioration, although he was in the prison everyday and making notes about what he saw as well. One day, his fiance happened to visit the prison and rather emphatically pointed out to him the degrading situation in which his subjects were living. At that point, the experiment was halted. It supports an argument for only independent investigators, far-removed from a connection with the prison.
That guards were capable of such brutality raises a question about this not being the first time.
That guards were capable of such brutality raises a question about this not being the first time.
4
@ Dan Stackhouse: No amount of injustice by law enforcement, however slight that injustice may be, should be tolerated by a civil and just society. If we want to change the rules governing treatment of prisoners or any number of other things, laws must be duly enacted but still subject to the constitutional protections given to all citizens, even criminals. If not satisfied with existing law, we may move to modify or amend statutes and even the constitution.
Civil disobedience against unjust laws or the unjust implementation of valid laws is woven into our collective DNA. What happened to the Dannemora prisoners under the hands of law enforcement, if true, is a far different matter and cannot be taken lightly and should be punished to the full extent of the law. If law enforcement is allowed to create its own rules, then there is no rule of law.
Civil disobedience against unjust laws or the unjust implementation of valid laws is woven into our collective DNA. What happened to the Dannemora prisoners under the hands of law enforcement, if true, is a far different matter and cannot be taken lightly and should be punished to the full extent of the law. If law enforcement is allowed to create its own rules, then there is no rule of law.
These are the same convicted felons that have committed crimes and will lie to your face that they are innocent. They should also be called the title of "inmate", they do not deserve to be called "Mr".
These latest charges of prison guards abusing prisoners are disgusting. I remember the Attica riots when I was growing up in Buffalo. Hasn't anything changed?
73
Human nature never changes.
No. Why would anything change?
The governor is complicit here. Guards and other prison officials simply followed Cuomo's lead and pointed blame at the convicts. Beyond shameful.
10
They are still responsible for their own behavior.
1
Yes, of course they are. But when the Chief Executive of New York gave an inmate a verbal side-eye, prison employees saw an opportunity to be thugs.
The idea that uninvolved inmates would be subject to abuse as retribution is so incredibly predictable and obvious, that I would in fact think it wouldn't happen because the guards and their bosses would have to be idiots to think it wouldn't come under scrutiny. Apparently I gave them too much credit.
8
These men, whatever they may have done to earn time in prison, deserve to be treated like citizens of a democracy. This is like something out of Costa Gavras--horrifying.
Also, the ugly antics with garbage bag--used by these brutal and sadistic corrections officers as weapons of intimidation and torture--make me wonder all over again what really happened to Sandra Bland down in Texas, where officials claim she hanged herself with a garbage bag. These corrections officers seem to be well aware of the lethal and terrifying potential of this common household item, and are (disgustingly) willing to use it to inflict real, dire harm on helpless human beings who cannot fight back without risking horrendous injury or even death.
Our legal system is a global disgrace; from cops and prison guards to prosecutors and politicians, all are complicit. Governor Cuomo is lucky to be incapable of anything as dignified or decent as shame, because otherwise he would find it difficult to sleep at night.
Worst: this kind of thing has gone on for decades without headlines or public outrage. The only reason this torture is receiving coverage at all is because of the citizen journalists and protesters who have forced us all to be aware that lethal misconduct by law enforcement is a national epidemic.
Also, the ugly antics with garbage bag--used by these brutal and sadistic corrections officers as weapons of intimidation and torture--make me wonder all over again what really happened to Sandra Bland down in Texas, where officials claim she hanged herself with a garbage bag. These corrections officers seem to be well aware of the lethal and terrifying potential of this common household item, and are (disgustingly) willing to use it to inflict real, dire harm on helpless human beings who cannot fight back without risking horrendous injury or even death.
Our legal system is a global disgrace; from cops and prison guards to prosecutors and politicians, all are complicit. Governor Cuomo is lucky to be incapable of anything as dignified or decent as shame, because otherwise he would find it difficult to sleep at night.
Worst: this kind of thing has gone on for decades without headlines or public outrage. The only reason this torture is receiving coverage at all is because of the citizen journalists and protesters who have forced us all to be aware that lethal misconduct by law enforcement is a national epidemic.
230
A big part of why I'm close to giving up on the Democratic party is people like Cuomo and Schumer. Why should I support a party with people like this in it's leadership? At least Republicans are honest in their self-serving behavior.
1
I have no sympathy for violent criminals. None. Penalties for hurting others should be severe and prolonged. Let all who disagree meet violent criminals into their homes.
1
The law prescribes the penalties, and they do not include dehumanizing brutalization. America is a sick puppy.
3
"The beatings will continue until morale improves."
If and when we ever decide that prison is not a place where society gets to passively or directly vent its rage at prisoners, at miscreants, malcontents, and genuinely bad apples, we might be able to create a justice system and an approach to rehabilitation that doesn't turn both prisoners and their guards into animals.
If and when we ever decide that prison is not a place where society gets to passively or directly vent its rage at prisoners, at miscreants, malcontents, and genuinely bad apples, we might be able to create a justice system and an approach to rehabilitation that doesn't turn both prisoners and their guards into animals.
2
The minute I read the first sentence of this article I knew that Andrew Cuomo would somehow be involved in the bullying and brutality. Like with Christie, the people below him follow his example of bullying people with less power. Bullying incompetent leadership is why Cuomo is so popular with the residents of NYC.
5
Someone had to pay. All across the country people were laughing at the guards. They knew that the cries of the prisoners would not be heard. I'm sure no guard is going to suffer any consequences from this.
31
"They were also subjected to harsh policies ordered by the State Department of Corrections and Community Supervision: Dozens of inmates, many of whom had won the right to live on the honor block after years of good behavior, were transferred out of Clinton to other prisons. Many were placed in solitary confinement, and stripped of privileges they had accrued over the years — even though no prisoners have yet been linked to Mr. Matt’s and Mr. Sweat’s actions."
It is totally unclear what this paragraph is attempting to say. Are the former honor block residents who were transferred out of Clinton to other prisons the ones of whom "many" were placed in solitary confinement? Or just some of the honor block residents who weren't trasnferred to other prisons?
It is totally unclear what this paragraph is attempting to say. Are the former honor block residents who were transferred out of Clinton to other prisons the ones of whom "many" were placed in solitary confinement? Or just some of the honor block residents who weren't trasnferred to other prisons?
1
It is time to clean up this cesspool, prison employees included.
2
When a government incarcerates a person, the actions of the government re: housing, feeding, and keeping the person safe reflect the ethics and morality of the government. For years, back in the 70s and 80s, I refused to purchase anything made in China for fear it had been produced in a terrible prison there.
I fear more for our nation every day when reports of inhumanity to our prisoners come to light. This sickening behavior by one of our government institutions seems to be one more example of the crumbling of our society.
I fear more for our nation every day when reports of inhumanity to our prisoners come to light. This sickening behavior by one of our government institutions seems to be one more example of the crumbling of our society.
6
Not surprising. Prisons here are not meant to rehabilitate prisoners but punish them so when they're released they revert to a life of crime.
We have not come a long way in any area.in this country.
Of all places Germany has an excellent prison system where prisoners wear their own clothes, have rooms with private bathrooms and can come and go more freely. They are taught a trade and respond well to this system .
We have not come a long way in any area.in this country.
Of all places Germany has an excellent prison system where prisoners wear their own clothes, have rooms with private bathrooms and can come and go more freely. They are taught a trade and respond well to this system .
2
Guess they should have been beating and interrogating the Prison Guards instead of the inmates.
2
The behavior of state officers is despicable. They belong in prison more than the ones in their so-called care.
New York State Prison system is the new Abu Graib. We have sunk to the level of the worst countries in the world for abuse. We no longer have the privilege of accusing other countries of human-rights abuse. Shame, shame on us!
Sheriff Cuomo should stop strutting around like a big shot and reintroduce some civility and lawful activity for the actions of his "boys."
New York State Prison system is the new Abu Graib. We have sunk to the level of the worst countries in the world for abuse. We no longer have the privilege of accusing other countries of human-rights abuse. Shame, shame on us!
Sheriff Cuomo should stop strutting around like a big shot and reintroduce some civility and lawful activity for the actions of his "boys."
4
Torture-is-Us. We say we don't do it but we do. From George Bush to Andrew Cuomo, rulers or their puppets kill and torture. We're not a humane country, probably neither is any other country. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely .
4
Having taught in a correctional center I have a limited amount of knowledge about prisons - but it seems long past time for a complete overhaul of the U.S. correctional system. America incarcerates such a huge percentage of our population it is inhumane, immoral and counter-productive to abuse prisoners. Inmates need far more opportunities for education, drug addiction treatment, job training and the ability to earn money while working in prison. They are human beings, not pieces of dead meat. Overhaul the entire correctional hiring and oversight system - arrest those thugs who wear a badge, fire any prison administration where guards have habitually abused prisoners. While teaching in prison I met an inmate whom when he got out became an incredibly hardworking and important citizen - as well as friend. Time for more than just Obama to take notice and thanks to the N.Y.Times for sticking with this issue. What a necessary newspaper.
196
In the immediate aftermath of the prison escape, the Times reported that contact with prisoners at Dannemora was being cut off, and reported about the plight of concerned family members who were not able to contact family members serving sentences at that facility. At the time, state prison officials assured families and the public that prisoners were fine and that the lack of access was purely precautionary. Today, we learn that prison officials were untruthful about the condition of certain prisoners, and the reasons that contact by prisoners to the outside world cut off.
The brutality of corrections officers in city jails and around the state is criminal, and it is the result of an institutional failure to bring accountability to the actions of law enforcement officers. The Times deserves praise for getting this story out, and should continue to press Governor Cuomo and state prison officials for answers. In addition, the U.S. Department of Justice should intervene and conduct an independent investigation.
The brutality of corrections officers in city jails and around the state is criminal, and it is the result of an institutional failure to bring accountability to the actions of law enforcement officers. The Times deserves praise for getting this story out, and should continue to press Governor Cuomo and state prison officials for answers. In addition, the U.S. Department of Justice should intervene and conduct an independent investigation.
291
Rat on a fellow prisoner, expect to get shanked by him or his friends.
Don't rat on a fellow prisoner, expect to get tortured by the guards.
Don't rat on a fellow prisoner, expect to get tortured by the guards.
8
From everything that's been published so far about this incident, the guards should have been violently assaulting their own coworkers looking for answers. Their corruption and utter failure to do their jobs led to this escape.
3
The prison system of the USA are totally corrupt. Now, there are even PRIVATE profit making Prisons and what is the incentive to rehabilitate when their incarceration makes them money? This nation requires a complete overhaul.
Corruption has become a part of everything in America. Prison Guards are all viscous and malignant. Wardens are fat and ignorant. If this nation faces a revolution, these prisoners will react violently to all. It is time to be rid of elected politicians.
Corruption has become a part of everything in America. Prison Guards are all viscous and malignant. Wardens are fat and ignorant. If this nation faces a revolution, these prisoners will react violently to all. It is time to be rid of elected politicians.
6
If all of these accounts are true this is appalling. This is medival behavior on the part of the guards. It is also shaming behavior.
CO's: Well we obviously didn't do our job very well. If someone finds out we are going to look really, really bad (and I may lose my job) so because we feel so demeaned by this situation (someone escaped on my watch -- even though I was sleeping on my shift) we are going to demean the other inmates. It'll feel good to weld so much power and control over them while we beat them up -- that'll show 'em. And, underneath it all I, a CO who gets paid well and has a pension, am a lazy son-of-a-gun, but no one can find that out (too embarrassing).
It's all about bravado folks.
Thing is about inmates -- they often lie or exaggerate. However, being transferred to solitary? Way beyond necessary. Destroying an inmates cherished family pictures is just plain cruel.
Let's get more particular about who we train as a CO. Some are really, really good, others are there specifically to abuse power. We can weed those out with more thorough assessments.
Having worked in several prisons I know boundaries and personal psychologies get a chance to ooze out into inappropriate behaviors -- I mean the CO'S! This requires top leadership, and proper supervision with consequences for rules broken, not a good ol' boy network.
CO's: Well we obviously didn't do our job very well. If someone finds out we are going to look really, really bad (and I may lose my job) so because we feel so demeaned by this situation (someone escaped on my watch -- even though I was sleeping on my shift) we are going to demean the other inmates. It'll feel good to weld so much power and control over them while we beat them up -- that'll show 'em. And, underneath it all I, a CO who gets paid well and has a pension, am a lazy son-of-a-gun, but no one can find that out (too embarrassing).
It's all about bravado folks.
Thing is about inmates -- they often lie or exaggerate. However, being transferred to solitary? Way beyond necessary. Destroying an inmates cherished family pictures is just plain cruel.
Let's get more particular about who we train as a CO. Some are really, really good, others are there specifically to abuse power. We can weed those out with more thorough assessments.
Having worked in several prisons I know boundaries and personal psychologies get a chance to ooze out into inappropriate behaviors -- I mean the CO'S! This requires top leadership, and proper supervision with consequences for rules broken, not a good ol' boy network.
5
anybody who is actually surprised by this, really can't be paying attention.
3
The chance of another inmate getting assistance from a female employee he is having sex with and a guard to bring in tools are near zero. Let us not spend too much money solving a problem that will never happen again.
Nobody heard nothing. The inmates learn just like people in the army. Best to keep your eyes open and your mouth shut.
Nobody heard nothing. The inmates learn just like people in the army. Best to keep your eyes open and your mouth shut.
1
In the United States. In 2015. Time for the FBI to broaden its investigation and, it seems, for some prison guards to be charged with criminal civil rights violations in the Northern District of New York. Unless the investigation is free of "local" interference, no one will be entirely safe.
7
They are in jail. Most will be there for a long time, if not forever. Civilized society does not exist in prison. Whatever occurs there is normal. Don't compare prison life with life on the outside.
Oops. You missed that part where they are still human beings. Their citizenship has not been revoked. Petty sadists are evidently entertaining themselves on the taxpayers money.
3
Totally disgusting but state run and of course what do you expect? These guys are probably getting overly-generous state pensions. There should be video cameras with dates and times and an accounting should be required but that would be too logical for anything state run.
2
These prison guards are clearly thugs in uniform and they need to charged with assault. However, the head of the NYS State Corrections Department is Anthony J. Annucci - and as Harry Truman said, "The buck stops here". If Mr. Annucci does not take the appropriate action - removing these guards, arresting and charging them with the respective crimes AND restoring the rights these prisoners have earned over the years, he should be fired. He clearly has no control over his prisons and the employees.
15
In this day and age, why isn't every square foot of every jail and prison in this country wired for sound and video? This behavior is ridiculous, has precedent, and will happen again. The only way to stop it is to truly make these guards (and prisoners) accountable for their actions.
8
Too expensive.
First, no one saws an escape route without their surrounding cell mates knowing it was happening, so the beaten inmates should have avoided the beating by telling the truth. Second, the employees who aided these killers were simply perps no one realized were that way until they had the opportunity to uncover it. America isn't Utopia - nor should it be. Sick of buying perps a retirement package when honest, good citizens keep to the law and can't afford more than what is necessary for living. More perps with an excuse to distort the spirit of law and order into a social worker's dream; bring in the bleeding hearts for kindness to criminals who devalued life and property. The show goes on.
Sorry you're unhappy in life, but no, it's not okay to torture prisoners nor to assume they saw things that they may well not have; even if they did, it's not okay to assault them in these ways. It was the guards' job to stop escapes; where were they? Are they to be beaten or suffocated, too? I hope you can find some part of yourself still capable of mercy and justice, and not let your sense of being victimized make you lose your own humanity; that would be poverty indeed.
1
I suspect that you missed the part where torture and beating do not anytime, anywhere extract the truth. Usually quite the opposite. Justice for all, human rights and the Constitution should set us apart from Russia, Nazi Germany, Syria, and on and on, but evidently there are citizens of this country who never had civics and just don't get it.
1
The goons in the prison system probably aren't even aware of this dimension, but the White House should be: it simply is that the outside world reads articles like this with interest and determines whether the USA has the moral authority to lecture other countries about human rights and respect of the individual. Kudos to the NYT for publishing these facts, otherwise it would pass under the radar and there would be no hope for the victims of this kind of senseless abuse.
16
Attorney General Loretta Lynch and the FBI have their work cut out for them here. Civil rights laws, many international human rights laws, and prisoner rights laws were clearly violated. Governor Cuomo ought to either be indicted for overseeing this barbarous behavior at the Clinton facility or he ought to resign, along with the prison guards who committed the brutal treatment of the prisoners in this report. New York's Gulag compares with Alexander Solzhenitsyn's horrifying account of his prison confinement in Siberia under the U.S.S.R. communist regime.
13
No longer any need to ask what we as a nation have become. It is perfectly clear.
132
The thing that makes us different is that we have a system that allows for correction. The bad part of that is mistakes get made and leaders who should never hold office in a laundry mat get elected.
This prison guard culture was allowed by people who are blind to larger issues and think of themselves as superior to others.
This prison guard culture was allowed by people who are blind to larger issues and think of themselves as superior to others.
This is why it is so critical to hold all those directly and indirectly responsible for torture in the Bush-Cheney Regime's wars of aggression in the Muslim world- and Obama if he has authorized it during his two terms. What the government can do and get away with against its proclaimed foreign enemies they can do to American citizens as well.
29
The Cheney gang should have been hauled before the International Court of Justice for crimes against humanity. But, of course, the US considers itself morally superior and, therefore, does not recognize the court. And so the death culture made in the USA keeps growing and growing, at home and abroad.
REPAULCOHEN:Unfortunately, u can't fault forced questioning or torture as an effective technique in counter insurgency.It enabled MASSU and his 10th Paratroop Division to put an end to FLN terrorism in ALGIERS (1956-1959)and the 3 juntas in Argentina during the DIRTY WAR(1976-1983) to combat successfully the revolutionary army known as the Montoneros, which if the "Montons" had been successful. would have established a Marxist, Communist state in southern South America. In fact, the 3 juntas relied on French army experts to help them in their war against left wing subversion,All governments use torture, even democracies, to combat threats to their security.It has been pointed out that INDIA, the world's largest democracy, assassinates more political prisoners yearly than PINOCHET did in his 16 years in office in Chile(1973-1989).
I have a summer cabin on a nearby lake. I have to pass through Dannemora to come and go. I just left yesterday. There's a big board outside the prison where the guards post the names of all the new retirees and offer congratulations. It's a two sided sign. Both sides were filled with names. I've never seen so many names at one time on the sign. I'm guessing that's not coincidental.
4
I'm not surprised. It felt to me, from day one, as if Governor Cuomo took the escape as a personal affront and there would be hell to pay for embarrassing him. The Mayor and others have called Cuomo petty and vindictive and I believe it.
13
Violence always seems to heighten when a group is trying to hide its own obvious culpability. The officers knew so clearly that they themselves were at fault that they go into overdrive to "prove" that no, the other inmates are the guilty ones here. It is as if beating them will demonstrate the prisoners' guilt, when in fact it only reveals the guilty conscience of the perpetrators. The guards should be reprimanded, punished, disciplined, but of course we don't expect anything other than a light slap on the shoulder. The system seems to require this level of duplicity to survive - at least until we can weaken or dismantle the prison industrial complex itself
15
I'll say, usually I see the other side to every story---but in this case, I really don't. I do believe that the prisoners were treated violently, just as described, and I would be surprised if there was not plenty of evidence to support the claims of abuse. And I will also say that I feel sad and sorry for the prisoners on the Honor Block who are now being punished for something that was no fault of their own, and no fault of the Honor Block system. Talk about the old saying that 'One bad apple spoils the bunch....'
Prison is a harsh environment. So, what can you do? I can't imagine that the position of Correctional Officer will ever really draw too many kind, compassionate, loving people with any real interest in making inmates lives comfortable and relaxing as they journey toward rehabilitation. So--- and at the risk of sounding meaningless, I realize--- it seems to be that it is what it is: prison sucks, people there are vicious and nasty. So either devote yourself to getting actively involved with prison reform or just accept that that's the way it is.
I think that this story is upsetting to read about, but I am ready to move past it as I think most people will be too.
Prison is a harsh environment. So, what can you do? I can't imagine that the position of Correctional Officer will ever really draw too many kind, compassionate, loving people with any real interest in making inmates lives comfortable and relaxing as they journey toward rehabilitation. So--- and at the risk of sounding meaningless, I realize--- it seems to be that it is what it is: prison sucks, people there are vicious and nasty. So either devote yourself to getting actively involved with prison reform or just accept that that's the way it is.
I think that this story is upsetting to read about, but I am ready to move past it as I think most people will be too.
2
"I think that this story is upsetting to read about, but I am ready to move past it as I think most people will be too."
Since most people have no interest in anything that doesn't personally affect them or their relatives or their friends, I think that most people, including Peety Tee, have already moved past it.
Since most people have no interest in anything that doesn't personally affect them or their relatives or their friends, I think that most people, including Peety Tee, have already moved past it.
The world is a violent place. You are right, one cannot stop and fall apart emotionally over everything like this. Just try to do a small bit of good in a particular location - whether it's children, animals, old people ... prisoners, disabled people, abuse victims ... there are lots of ways to help.
1
This article and the revelation of officers using plastic bags to threaten suffocation and hanging of prisoners makes me wonder if there is a connection to what may have happened to Sandra Bland.
17
You're not the only one wondering. This doesn't sound like some one-off thing, or like some crazy idea these particular prison guards just suddenly thought up all on their own.
This reminds me of the revolting stories of 'enhanced interrogation techniques,' which are still coming to light. The sense of complete power over other people, coupled with a feeling of impunity, lead to pathological and criminal acts. No person or group should ever be given this much authority to do wrong.
12
The highest ranking department of corrections political appointee should be fired over this, as well as all those serving under him/her. This whole episode, as well as the disgraceful condition of New York's prison system, should be laid at the feet of the governor. The citizens of New York state should initiate a recall of the governor and remove him from office. There must be consequences for such as this.
18
It seems that when it comes to prisons, it doesn't make a difference on what side of the bars you are. Some of the corrections officers are every bit as rotten as the worst of the prisoners. I do not think for a moment that we should coddle prisoners, but we have legislated certain rights for prisoners and those rights should be honored. Nothing more, or less, than that. Correctional officers that violate the law are no less criminal than the prisoners they are guarding. I'm glad the Times is on top of this story, but the story goes a long way toward completing a picture that makes law enforcement look bad from one end to the other.
12
I hope that President Obama points to this expose as he continues to push for prison reform. This is hardly a politically expedient topic, and Obama is a real leader for voicing the voiceless.
6
It looks like the guards from this prison were a vicious, sadistic gang. I hope the ones involved in this violent behavior wind up a prisoners themselves. They belong behind bars and I hope they get long prison sentences.
13
We should all be following this to be sure that there is follow-through. The system needs major reform starting with the education and training of prison personnel. A number of these officers are over their heads in this environment educationally and psychologically. And, of course, it is the leadership which must be looked to. The leadership of the Department and in the institution itself must take responsibility for the failing. The tone is set from the top --or not! Furthermore, there should be criminal responsibility for these assaults and other crimes. If civil society doesn't demand the rule of law we will not get it. It is up to us now to watch carefully and be sure that reforms are in place and that justice is done.
8
Yeah, and we can be confident that these convicted murders are not at all upset about loosing their hard earned honor privileges and would never trump the whole thing up against the guards. Where would prisoners find the time to work up a story like that. Salt of the earth diligent individuals that these murders are. Working overtime in the leather shop. If only the guards had more humanity. Clearly each and every claim by these murders is true and correct.
2
They have 24/7days to think about it.
Look, we live in a society where it is still fine to beat your children. There are still several states where children are paddled in school - and when anyone tries to institute reforms, PARENTS protest. Animal abuse, also, is prevalent and very well documented.
We are only a few centuries out from times when executions and other brutal punishments, like the rack, were a public spectacle - fun for the whole family. People would bring a picnic; it was a festival day.
If you think prisoners are not abused, you are living in a dream world.
We are only a few centuries out from times when executions and other brutal punishments, like the rack, were a public spectacle - fun for the whole family. People would bring a picnic; it was a festival day.
If you think prisoners are not abused, you are living in a dream world.
4
Just curious about your reaction to the fact that the investigators of this matter found independent evidence of a lot of the inmates claims coming from the other prison employees - you know, the soon-to-be convicts-too group?
2
This kind of treatment is nothing new in prisons and jails across the country; one need only look at almost-daily reports in newspapers across the country. No one really cares. It is very true that one can judge a society by its treatment of the confined. We are all complicit, criminally so.
24
As I read more and more about the history of this country, it seems to me that this is the way it has always been. First in its decimation of the native population, then in its treatment of its slaves and later in all its attacks (blatant and/or covert) against countries whose leaders did not accede to US demands.
It seems the US is a schizophrenic society, proclaiming freedom and democracy with one hand, while slowly suffocating those very same principles with the other.
It seems the US is a schizophrenic society, proclaiming freedom and democracy with one hand, while slowly suffocating those very same principles with the other.
47
Thank you for calling it what it is. We have a sordid history in this country--and one that is well-deserved. And we are critical of the atrocities and human rights violations of foreign governments, yet we stand idly by when they occur in our own backyards. Ours is a hypocritical nation.
4
NOW you are understanding how this country really works! The USA is good for making some money, enjoying nature in the state and national parks, higher education, but not much else. The rest is propaganda that is believed because most Americans have not traveled or lived abroad.
1
Yes there have been instances of abuse of power, but while you're reading that history, don't forget our involvement and solution to the German aggression in two world wars, the extinguishing of the deadly advance of Hirohito's Japanese forces, and the deterrent of the communist threat in Korea. Those were not suffocations, they were historic protections of our freedom and our lives -- it would be a very different New York without that freedom.
As a historian, I have devoted my career thus far to studying prison culture and correctional history in New York's North Country. Clinton is the state's largest maximum security prison and the oldest in the region. This type of abuse has been going on for over a century. Actual waterboarding happened there over 150 years ago, and a "code of silence" governing the illegal cover up of extralegal and illegal activities among officers and staff has been in place for decades. How long are we going to sit by and tolerate these clearly illegal abuses to continue? Why are these institutions not subject to outside, civilian oversight? Where are our elected leaders in times like this? Prisons may provide the single largest source of income for thousands of families in that region, but it's high time we consider the prices being paid for our middle class comforts. This story makes the prison feel much like a plantation. Very disturbing.
363
While studying the prison culture did you not learn about the games inmates play at all? Just because these two were beat up to get the desperately needed info don't go blaming the whole prison system. Did you not learn what hard cores these criminals are? I fail to understand this supporting the underdogs talk. That is what the employee did and got the whole nation into trouble.
"This story makes the prison feel much like a plantation."
Well, except that the overseers at the Southern slave-labor camps were not civil servants with salaries paid by taxing the general population.
Well, except that the overseers at the Southern slave-labor camps were not civil servants with salaries paid by taxing the general population.
1
Of course inmates play games, but the taxpayer is on the hook for the prisons that are operated in OUR NAMES and with OUR MONEY. These facilities are not the personal property of the individuals who operate them. They belong to US. Those beatings reflect on all of US, not just the individuals who carried them out, and I, for one, insist on a criminal justice system whose officers OBEY the law, and don't make it up on the fly. This isn't about supporting one side over the other. This is about insisting that our public servants obey our laws at all times. Period.
2
We are or have become a nation of sadists. There are still those among us who say it is OK to waterboard terrorists for information. Now the guards threaten to waterboard prisoners. I have no doubt that the inmates at Clinton Correctional Facility are not, as a group. the kind of folks we want running around our towns. But how many prisoners lately have been let out because the DNA and other evidence has shown that they were innocent. However, the treatment of these prisoners who have almost no way to complain or resist have been treated as bad or worse than terrorists. They are American citizens.
The culture in our police forces and prisons are becoming or already are, places of horror and deliberate cruelty that mirrors what happened in Iraq at the Abu Ghraib prison. Do we have to wait for another breakout, or a serious uprising in a big max security prison to deal with reforms that are long overdue? Is there no one who has the guts to take on those that support this kind of treatment and guards who are just as evil as the prisoners?
The culture in our police forces and prisons are becoming or already are, places of horror and deliberate cruelty that mirrors what happened in Iraq at the Abu Ghraib prison. Do we have to wait for another breakout, or a serious uprising in a big max security prison to deal with reforms that are long overdue? Is there no one who has the guts to take on those that support this kind of treatment and guards who are just as evil as the prisoners?
23
These were not the actions of a few rotten apples. The involvement of special teams and guards unknown to the prisoners coupled with Governor Cuomo's personal involvement in suggesting that the neighboring prisoners were in on the escape makes it quite clear that the beating and torture of prisoners was approved at the highest levels of the corrections system, if not by the Governor himself. Even if Cuomo's office did not specifically sign off on the abuse, he clearly is partly responsible for instigating it.
The guards involved and their superiors should all be fired and charged with felonies. More importantly, Cuomo must resign.
The guards involved and their superiors should all be fired and charged with felonies. More importantly, Cuomo must resign.
15
If problems like this were unique to a single prison or even a single state, they might be fixed by investigation and job termination. But this sort of brutality occurs in almost every prison in the country and it won't change by re-writing policies or firing people.
The problem, at its core, is the American view that law enforcement is fundamentally the same enterprise as warfare, that police officers and prison guards are soldiers and that suspects and criminals and prisoners are enemies.
Until this view changes, the "war" will continue and will continue to ensure that brutality rather than training,logic or decency is the principal agency of law enforcement and 'corrections'.
The problem, at its core, is the American view that law enforcement is fundamentally the same enterprise as warfare, that police officers and prison guards are soldiers and that suspects and criminals and prisoners are enemies.
Until this view changes, the "war" will continue and will continue to ensure that brutality rather than training,logic or decency is the principal agency of law enforcement and 'corrections'.
10
"it won't change by re-writing policies"
That's precisely the point that the Supreme Court made, when it eviscerated federal voting regulations.
That's precisely the point that the Supreme Court made, when it eviscerated federal voting regulations.
Sounds like the Governor instigated and encouraged this behavior by his remarks during his publicity visit to the prison.
16
I'm a law and order guy, from top to bottom, but the behavior of the guards and prison management is disgusting. The conditions for escape should never have been created or allowed.
120
Gary,
Why do you write that you are a law and or guy "but" you found the guards' behavior disgusting? A "law and order" guy would be the first to object to unlawful behavior, no?
Why do you write that you are a law and or guy "but" you found the guards' behavior disgusting? A "law and order" guy would be the first to object to unlawful behavior, no?
1
What does that mean, from top to bottom? It's not the top who's in this prison, not as an inmate or a guard. The prison guards and management are law and order guys, too, I'm sure. The bottom is the bottom partly because the top is the top, and the top is able to pretend this doesn't exist. It's a total mess, all around.
Many prisoners are lowlifes.
Corporal punishment of prisoners is illegal.
Sentences are determined by judges in a court of law.
Punishments are not determined by prison guards.
If some believe sentences are not long enough then change the law but guards should not make sentences harsher by abusing prisoners.
This type of abuse could be prevented.
We have seen this type of retaliation before by guards after incidents in jails.
The question is why is this type of abuse tolerated by those who are in charge of the prison system.
Corporal punishment of prisoners is illegal.
Sentences are determined by judges in a court of law.
Punishments are not determined by prison guards.
If some believe sentences are not long enough then change the law but guards should not make sentences harsher by abusing prisoners.
This type of abuse could be prevented.
We have seen this type of retaliation before by guards after incidents in jails.
The question is why is this type of abuse tolerated by those who are in charge of the prison system.
20
Prison guards are lowlifes.
Most corporeal punishment is illegal
Inmates at correctional facilities are sentenced by judges but are subject to administrative punishment for infractions of the rules of the prison they have been assigned to.
Sentences are long enough but prison officials have no right to abuse or violate an inmates human rights.
Abuse by its very definition can be prevented.
Here is the bottom line (tough talking governors et al, aside).
While inmates have human rights they don't have much of a constituency in the court of public opinion and absolutely no traction on the campaign trail. Thus, lip service is paid if an inmate is abused but the full spectrum from Ms. Clinton all the way down to Messers Trump and Coumo the Jr. could give a fig less if 101 inmates take a beating for no real reason.
Most corporeal punishment is illegal
Inmates at correctional facilities are sentenced by judges but are subject to administrative punishment for infractions of the rules of the prison they have been assigned to.
Sentences are long enough but prison officials have no right to abuse or violate an inmates human rights.
Abuse by its very definition can be prevented.
Here is the bottom line (tough talking governors et al, aside).
While inmates have human rights they don't have much of a constituency in the court of public opinion and absolutely no traction on the campaign trail. Thus, lip service is paid if an inmate is abused but the full spectrum from Ms. Clinton all the way down to Messers Trump and Coumo the Jr. could give a fig less if 101 inmates take a beating for no real reason.
Many prison guards are also lowlifes. This story may be an extreme example of that, but it is by no means an isolated example.
You are right. The experienced warden should have anticipated retaliatory attacks on the inmate, and he should have taken steps to prevent it.
Like you, I blame the warden for this shameless abuse.
Like you, I blame the warden for this shameless abuse.
The Torturing States of America.
Torture of arbitrary countries we invade, torture of uncharged and untried Gitmo detainees for years and years, torture of blacks by the police for misdemeanors, torture of prisoners....
What a shining city on a hill.
Torture of arbitrary countries we invade, torture of uncharged and untried Gitmo detainees for years and years, torture of blacks by the police for misdemeanors, torture of prisoners....
What a shining city on a hill.
16
I don't like people that commit felonies and who typically had zero sympathy for their victims. But I don't believe they should ever be mistreated, beaten or tortured. They should be treated humanely as they serve their time. The guards here who were cruel and engaged in illegal actions should be fired, and if convicted, do some time themselves.
13
This reads like reports out of Syria's crackdowns circa 2012.
10
I'm sure the NYS corrections officer union will fully come to the defense of these despicable individuals, if and when anyone is charged. Of course it's just as deplorable that the NYS governor is making similar sarcastic comments to a prisoner. It all starts at the top.
19
Embracing endless war and allowing the use of torture against helpless prisoners to go unpunished almost guaranteed this outcome. The US is reaping what it has sown and should take action.
14
Governor Cuomo is quite the man; the more I see of Cuomo, the more I like Mr. DeBlasio. And I think Cuomo and the cops are a little too cozy.
16
So typical. It became obvious in my work place that an employee had abused overtime by 20% from the high earner, who made it legit. The guy was coming in on his 6th and 7th day working for 4 hours, then sleeping for 7 1/2 on mids with a sleeping bag in another room. It wasn't like the guy was there and fell asleep in a chair. We had a project joining on and unlimited overtime. They stopped all the overtime. Never punished the psychopath but the people that complained. The prison guards are another façade of the same problem.
3
It's hard for me to imagine feeling bad for hardened criminals, but after reading this, I do. It sounds as if some of these individuals, while obviously personally responsible for where they ended up, were following the rules. And then they were victimized by the people who, while ostensibly there to enforce the rules, violated them egregiously. I'd like to believe there will be consequences for the corrections' officers actions, but I doubt it.
In the end, the criminals were victimized by people paid by the state (our tax dollars), who turned out to be criminals themselves.
I also feel bad for those decent, law-abiding corrections officers who do a very difficult job well and fairly, but who will be painted with the same brush as these thugs.
I hope Cuomo is embarassed by his 'tough guy' stance, since it turned out that the "criminals" he assumed had aided in the escape were not the ones already in prison, but the ones hired by the state. Still, I doubt he is. I'm not sure he's capable of it.
In the end, the criminals were victimized by people paid by the state (our tax dollars), who turned out to be criminals themselves.
I also feel bad for those decent, law-abiding corrections officers who do a very difficult job well and fairly, but who will be painted with the same brush as these thugs.
I hope Cuomo is embarassed by his 'tough guy' stance, since it turned out that the "criminals" he assumed had aided in the escape were not the ones already in prison, but the ones hired by the state. Still, I doubt he is. I'm not sure he's capable of it.
56
Reality check these people are in prison for good reason they killed people . If an when capital punishment should be given to those took the life of others. Both these guys should been exculted years ago that escaped . End of problem for every one an justice for those who where killed by these murders
3
Your illiterate comment (lousy spelling, lousy grammar) says a great deal about why you would hold the views that you do. In any case, it doesn't matter what these convicted criminals did (assuming that they are actually guilty), the barbaric treatment that they received was not ordered by any judge. Individual prison guards are there to GUARD, not decide for themselves what punishment should be meted out to the prisoners in their charge.
There is nothing about this treatment that constitutes "justice" as you put it.
There is nothing about this treatment that constitutes "justice" as you put it.
6
Perhaps you should be the executioner - and when the time comes when you eventually execute an innocent man, then some other volunteer can execute you for murder.
5
Really? Pray where do you get such certitude from? Simple, superficial, judgmental, opinionated solutions for complex societal misfortunes...for the sake of Mr. Lee in Rochester...sure hope the law of karma doesn't apply to him...he just may change course with a little empathy and some research...
4
And this is the United States of America? What is happening to this country? We are turning into some third world, banana republic. This is not the United States that I have known all my life. How did we allow this to happen.
35
Harriet, unfortunately this has always been the USA. In Chicago decades ago police would beat minorities until they get false confessions.
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/jon-burge-ex-chicago-cop-who-ran-torture-ring...
This goes on all over the country
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/jon-burge-ex-chicago-cop-who-ran-torture-ring...
This goes on all over the country
1
I didn't know it was part of the job description for a Governor to interrogate prisoners.
From the article"
"The governor then stopped to question Mr. Alexander.
'Must have kept you awake with all that cutting, huh?,' Mr. Cuomo asked, according to video of the exchange. Then, Mr. Alexander said, the governor 'gave me his best tough guy stare and walked off.' ”
And hours later Alexander had a plastic bag over his head and was being beaten senseless by the prison's Crisis Intervention unit officers...It would appear that they were taking their cues from the Governor.
From the article"
"The governor then stopped to question Mr. Alexander.
'Must have kept you awake with all that cutting, huh?,' Mr. Cuomo asked, according to video of the exchange. Then, Mr. Alexander said, the governor 'gave me his best tough guy stare and walked off.' ”
And hours later Alexander had a plastic bag over his head and was being beaten senseless by the prison's Crisis Intervention unit officers...It would appear that they were taking their cues from the Governor.
49
Used to beat others in Albany with aggression, Cuomo sets the tone for what lies behind state politics and policy: mediocrity all the way down. His tough-guy wannabe visit upstate the day after the escape only disrupted the work of finding the prisoners. We'll remember come election time.
16
Not only was this barbaric but not effective. Responsibility for this atrocity goes farther up maybe to the governor and Legislature.
19
Prisoners are Guantanamo Bay would not get treated like that today. This is horrifying and disgusting.
16
All over this country the police, courts, judges, penal system, district attorneys, everybody involved in law enforcement and the judicial system, everywhere seem to be at best complacent and indifferent to the broken system from which they draw their pay or at worst criminally corrupt.
Can anybody really doubt these are only some of the fruits (along with 3rd world income inequality, the Surveillance State and perpetual war) from the rightward lurch the nation took after 9/11 combined with the indefensible Citizens United SCOTUS decision?
The combined imaginations of Kafka and Orwell couldn't have invented the USA in 2015.
Can anybody really doubt these are only some of the fruits (along with 3rd world income inequality, the Surveillance State and perpetual war) from the rightward lurch the nation took after 9/11 combined with the indefensible Citizens United SCOTUS decision?
The combined imaginations of Kafka and Orwell couldn't have invented the USA in 2015.
41
It sounds like a Gulag.. what are we becoming in this prison culture?
46
How or why would the other prisoners trust ANYONE to report an attwmpted escape in this Gulag? Involved guards or prisoners could turn on them in a lethal second.
The governor could have suggested that witnesses and involved guards be uncovered 'whatever it takes,' and thereby try to be a fair and balanced criminal for condoning violent actions.
The governor could have suggested that witnesses and involved guards be uncovered 'whatever it takes,' and thereby try to be a fair and balanced criminal for condoning violent actions.
What else would we expect when our federal government sanctions and engages in torture, and no one in power is held accountable?
44
Welcome to the post-9/11 dystopia. These guards are only imitating what they know their "betters" do when they're interrogating terror detainees. If you disrespect one person's human rights and attempt to justify it on the basis of contingency, urgency or necessity, there's no longer justification for respecting anyone's human rights. This horrible contagion has spread throughout our penal system, and created an environment in which our law enforcement officers place preserving their own safety above the lives of the public they're meant to serve and protect.
This is the post 9/11 mindset: that a craven desire for "security" and a pathological need for control replaced our higher values of personal honor in conduct and respect for the dignity of others.
And by the way, as someone who followed the Sandra Bland story, I was knocked back by the statement that "another guard in a C.I.U. windbreaker tied a garbage bag around his neck, 'using the plastic bag as a hanging noose.'" That sounded way too familiar. I'm sure if Mr. Aponte had not survived this so-called interrogation, his family would've received a report of suicide.
This is the post 9/11 mindset: that a craven desire for "security" and a pathological need for control replaced our higher values of personal honor in conduct and respect for the dignity of others.
And by the way, as someone who followed the Sandra Bland story, I was knocked back by the statement that "another guard in a C.I.U. windbreaker tied a garbage bag around his neck, 'using the plastic bag as a hanging noose.'" That sounded way too familiar. I'm sure if Mr. Aponte had not survived this so-called interrogation, his family would've received a report of suicide.
86
This has nothing, at all, to do with any post 9/11 policies. This has been going on in prisons since prisons were invented. They finally got caught this time. I doubt any of them will face any serious consequences but one can hope....
The Op-Ed columnist of NYT David Brooks talks of The Cops Mind. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/09/opinion/the-cop-mind.html
"This is a life of both boredom and stress. Life expectancy for cops is lower than for the general population. Cops suffer disproportionately from peptic ulcers, back disorders and heart disease. In one study, suicide rates were three times higher among cops than among other municipal workers. Other studies have found that somewhere between 7 percent and 19 percent of cops suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder. The effect is especially harsh on those who have been involved in shootings. Two-thirds of the officers who have been involved in shootings suffer moderate or severe emotional problems. Seventy percent leave the police force within seven years of the incident..Police serve by walking that hazardous line where civilization meets disorder"
This is exactly why cops behave as they do not merely in America but through the world
Brutality is significantly more in country like India where the laws are a patchy some were drafted in the mid 1800s and some a month back. Several laws are contradictory too. There have been several committees for reforming the Indian Police Service, and almost none of their recommendations have been implemented.
"This is a life of both boredom and stress. Life expectancy for cops is lower than for the general population. Cops suffer disproportionately from peptic ulcers, back disorders and heart disease. In one study, suicide rates were three times higher among cops than among other municipal workers. Other studies have found that somewhere between 7 percent and 19 percent of cops suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder. The effect is especially harsh on those who have been involved in shootings. Two-thirds of the officers who have been involved in shootings suffer moderate or severe emotional problems. Seventy percent leave the police force within seven years of the incident..Police serve by walking that hazardous line where civilization meets disorder"
This is exactly why cops behave as they do not merely in America but through the world
Brutality is significantly more in country like India where the laws are a patchy some were drafted in the mid 1800s and some a month back. Several laws are contradictory too. There have been several committees for reforming the Indian Police Service, and almost none of their recommendations have been implemented.
"This is exactly why cops behave as they do not merely in America but through the world"
After all, this is merely the random opinion of a single, right-wing conservative. Therefore, it must be true of the entire word, but especially in a country like India.
It's just common sense.
After all, this is merely the random opinion of a single, right-wing conservative. Therefore, it must be true of the entire word, but especially in a country like India.
It's just common sense.
Why is this even news?
Mix a witches brew of fear (and that ingredient is as common as salt, sugar and fat combined), power, media madness and political pandering and ... well, whatever needs to be done will be done to keep citizens "safe." Not to mention careers.
Let's stop pretending that humanity and empathy will EVER trump safety, safety, safety. Except, of course, when we get to sit in self-righteous judgment and indignation from a (very) safe distance.
Mix a witches brew of fear (and that ingredient is as common as salt, sugar and fat combined), power, media madness and political pandering and ... well, whatever needs to be done will be done to keep citizens "safe." Not to mention careers.
Let's stop pretending that humanity and empathy will EVER trump safety, safety, safety. Except, of course, when we get to sit in self-righteous judgment and indignation from a (very) safe distance.
3
Maybe the annual State Department report on human rights should include a section on the New York State prisons?
I'm anything but a bleeding heart liberal, but the conduct by prison guards that is descrbed here sounds like something out of The Gulag Archipelago.
I'm anything but a bleeding heart liberal, but the conduct by prison guards that is descrbed here sounds like something out of The Gulag Archipelago.
30
This needs to be investigated and the people who did this need to be seriously punished. There is no excuse. This is an abuse of power one hears about in third world countries where there is no respect for human rights. It has no place in the United States. It is utterly revolting. Please keep up on this story and make sure those who did this are held responsible for their criminal behavior.
13
"...they resorted to brutal tactics that most likely violated department regulations."
Um, unless I'm mistaken, department regulations have nothing to do with this. What these officers did was illegal and unconstitutional.
Um, unless I'm mistaken, department regulations have nothing to do with this. What these officers did was illegal and unconstitutional.
12
I assume the name of this horror house, Clinton Corrections Facility, is for the former President and his wife the former Senator. If this is true, then I think they should be the ones to see that this horrible mis-carriage of justice is investigated and the bullies who perpetrated these crimes against humanity be arrested. This sounds like something that happened during WWII at Auschwitz.
1
You are incorrect. The prison is named for Clinton County, NY, where the prison is located. It is a state prison, under the administration of state officials and not, as you believe, federal officials like President Clinton or Secretary Clinton.
These people are being punished for committing crimes by being in prison and forfeiting their freedom. They are not there to be beaten and tortured too. I agree that an investigation is warranted.
These people are being punished for committing crimes by being in prison and forfeiting their freedom. They are not there to be beaten and tortured too. I agree that an investigation is warranted.
Clinton County is in Northern NY, the prison was built in the mid 1800s, so I don't think it has anything to do with our past President and his wife.
The facility is located in Clinton County, and has nothing to do with the Clintons.
This treatment of prisoners who have not even been accused, let alone convicted of participation in the escape from Dannemora is beyond appalling. It is all too clear that many prison "corrections officers" are barely distinguishable from the criminals they are guarding.
Obviously the escape reflected very badly on the staff and management of the prison and they took out their embarrassment on the convicts who stayed behind.
Depriving other inmates of both hard-earned privileges and cherished personal possessions is intolerable and the torture and beatings should absolutely bring felony prosecution.
Losing one's freedom is a devastating punishment in itself. Unfortunately it is all too clear that these convicts have also lost every other basic right and have no protection whatever from institutional and random brutality and sadism.
Any decent citizen should be outraged. What is amazing is that the victims managed to get their story out.
Obviously the escape reflected very badly on the staff and management of the prison and they took out their embarrassment on the convicts who stayed behind.
Depriving other inmates of both hard-earned privileges and cherished personal possessions is intolerable and the torture and beatings should absolutely bring felony prosecution.
Losing one's freedom is a devastating punishment in itself. Unfortunately it is all too clear that these convicts have also lost every other basic right and have no protection whatever from institutional and random brutality and sadism.
Any decent citizen should be outraged. What is amazing is that the victims managed to get their story out.
33
The corrections officers are guilty of felonies and need to be prosecuted. We'll see what happens but its highly unlikely justice will prevail. The reason the inmates escaped was because the COs werent doing their jobs. They should be fired. Also more rigorous psychological screening is required to weed out cowards and those that are full of fear from jobs as COs and police officers. Fear and cowardice are the root cause of all these types of abuses of power.
23
If the governor really intends to do anything about Dannemora, either in the security or custodial force behavior departments , its probably going to require
wholesale changes in the guard force. The state can outsource it (not without it's own risks), move the inmates ; sell the facility and property or recruit a guard force from elsewhere in the state or a mix and match of these options. None of these are particularly appealing, but the status quo is even less so. It's a classic,"... lousy job but somebody has to do it." deal.
wholesale changes in the guard force. The state can outsource it (not without it's own risks), move the inmates ; sell the facility and property or recruit a guard force from elsewhere in the state or a mix and match of these options. None of these are particularly appealing, but the status quo is even less so. It's a classic,"... lousy job but somebody has to do it." deal.
3
"lousy job but somebody has to do it"
There is nothing in the article to suggest that the guards *had* to do what they did. I don't know what the daily duty requirements for the job are, but punishing the inmates because the guards chose to sleep rather than to do what the tax-payers pay them to do is probably not one of them.
The guards did what they did to the prisoners because they wanted to and because they could and not because their job required them to.
There is nothing in the article to suggest that the guards *had* to do what they did. I don't know what the daily duty requirements for the job are, but punishing the inmates because the guards chose to sleep rather than to do what the tax-payers pay them to do is probably not one of them.
The guards did what they did to the prisoners because they wanted to and because they could and not because their job required them to.
We don't know that the torture involved more than a handful of prison guards (and maybe some were outsiders). Corrections Officer jobs are rightfully protected and regulated by Civil Service law and regulations, and the system prescribes how to investigate and discipline the miscreants.
But for the top brass, heads certainly should roll.
If the Corrections Officers really are out of control in large numbers, the environment created and fostered by the prison system culture would need change.
Maybe turning the focus from confinement and regimentation to education, of both inmates and guards, could make a difference.
But for the top brass, heads certainly should roll.
If the Corrections Officers really are out of control in large numbers, the environment created and fostered by the prison system culture would need change.
Maybe turning the focus from confinement and regimentation to education, of both inmates and guards, could make a difference.
My heart goes out to all those inmates, especially the one whose wedding ring and family pictures were stolen by guards and treated as garbage. That loss can never be made up. There is a special place in hell to punish such cruelty. If all the implicated guards are not put behind bars themselves, then the New York State Corrections Dept is even more corrupt than we thought. They should all be 1) fired; 2) deprived of their pensions; 3) locked up for the longest time allowed by law. -- It seems we have our own Guantanamo Bay right here on U.S. soil.
42
Video cameras everywhere. All the time. Even inmates should have the option of asking for them in their cells. Everyone should want this. IF COs say no....why? If inmates say no....why?
This is inexpensive with current tech.
This is inexpensive with current tech.
8
"If inmates say no..."
The inmates have no say, you see.
The inmates have no say, you see.
1
The guards are as criminal as the convicts.
8
Which is why most of us want to have nothing to do with either guards or convicts, because almost all are thugs.
Will justice be done? If these reports are even half true, how can we respect the prison system?
7
I have no doubt of this having witnessed a prison during disorder. Guards are the flip side of the inmates they guard. We should never be surprised by this because even in a place like Dannemora, there are other vocational choices than the prison. Those who go into it have an abusive bent or acquire one. It takes a certain kind of man to want to guard other men.
As New York City knows from Rikers, as New York State should know from Attica and we in New Jersey from Rahway, prison guards, given allowance by maladroit, uncaring and inattentive administrations, can be as brutal as those they guard virtually without witness.
The irony here is that this escape was not caused or enabled by inmates but by a negligent guard and a woman who defaulted on her entire life, so starved was she for recognition and attention. In doing so she compromised the security of the prison and her very own community. It is not in any way acceptable that in frustration over their internal failures guards then committed crimes against inmates.
New York State must act on this report to investigate, ferret out those who so abused positions of public trust and responsibility and send them to serve time on the other side of the bars
Until guards pay in kind for abuse they will go on doing it and, in this case, in kind has to mean prison sentences and loss of pensions.
As New York City knows from Rikers, as New York State should know from Attica and we in New Jersey from Rahway, prison guards, given allowance by maladroit, uncaring and inattentive administrations, can be as brutal as those they guard virtually without witness.
The irony here is that this escape was not caused or enabled by inmates but by a negligent guard and a woman who defaulted on her entire life, so starved was she for recognition and attention. In doing so she compromised the security of the prison and her very own community. It is not in any way acceptable that in frustration over their internal failures guards then committed crimes against inmates.
New York State must act on this report to investigate, ferret out those who so abused positions of public trust and responsibility and send them to serve time on the other side of the bars
Until guards pay in kind for abuse they will go on doing it and, in this case, in kind has to mean prison sentences and loss of pensions.
10
What is surprising is that Mr. Cuomo would start an interrogation, that obviously was the inspiration for the misconduct of the corrections' officers, et al.
Perhaps Mr. Cuomo was looking to suck up some air in the political arena to overshadow Donald Trump.
Glad I don't live in NY to pay taxes for this type of misbehavior.
Perhaps Mr. Cuomo was looking to suck up some air in the political arena to overshadow Donald Trump.
Glad I don't live in NY to pay taxes for this type of misbehavior.
12
What is really sad is that there will be enough public opinion that prison inmates deserve anything, and I mean anything, they get just because they committed some crime, that anything that these correctional officers do will be swept under the rug. You can see it anytime there is an article in any publication that illustrates any injustice that an inmate must endure. Many people just don't care. Many people believe that inmates deserve anything they get. Many people are absolute barbarians in their views towards their fellow human beings.
23
America is a very violent nation filled with violent people, isn't it? Individuals own millions of guns and laws have been passed to urge them to use them by 'standing their ground'. Police and corrections officers and other uniformed forces have been told to shoot to kill and not to put up with 'back talk'. Our nation invades countries without legal right to do so and murders civilians at will with impunity.
So what else would we expect in the prison? America has gone too far to turn back and renounce violence. What a shame.
So what else would we expect in the prison? America has gone too far to turn back and renounce violence. What a shame.
16
I have long lost respect for Governor Cuomo and his policies - I can see his "tough guy stare" and his claim to be "shocked if any employees were involved"; now we know, Governor!
While these men are not behind bars for singing too loudly in church, it's horrible that they were beaten by the correction officers. I'm sure the guards embarrassment in allowing the two prisoners to escape played a part, but that's still no excuse.
Let's hope the responsible parties are penalized!
While these men are not behind bars for singing too loudly in church, it's horrible that they were beaten by the correction officers. I'm sure the guards embarrassment in allowing the two prisoners to escape played a part, but that's still no excuse.
Let's hope the responsible parties are penalized!
19
We certainly don't have a humane prison system here in California but at least our governor isn't a posturing jerk.
Did anyone do a DNA test to verify he really is Mario's son?
Did anyone do a DNA test to verify he really is Mario's son?
12
I hope and believe that justice will be done.
However, I'm not taking the prisoners' statements at face value. Serious felons tend to be habitual sociopathic liars.
However, I'm not taking the prisoners' statements at face value. Serious felons tend to be habitual sociopathic liars.
4
How can you tell yourself that you "hope and believe that justice will be done," when you have already decided "not to take the prisoners' statements at face value." If you refuse to take the statements of the prisoners at face value - the only value that they have - then there is no reason to think that there has been any wrong-doing by their keepers.
Therefore, justice has already been done.
Therefore, justice has already been done.
1
Freddy, what research do you base your statement on? Why would someone in the Honor block make this all up?
1
The real mystery - no one heard the escape holes being cut?
No one?
No one?
6
There was likely no one there that wasn't an inmate or a control center monitor (other than the mice and roaches). On average, the guards probably worked half the scheduled shifts and I suspect that a records review would establish that night shifts were more popular that the average for such employment - and they thought it was the shift diff.!
1
Not even the men being paid by the tax-payers to do precisely that? How odd.
1
Where were the guards? It's their job to prevent escapes, not to torture prisoners they claim must have known, whether they knew or not.
2
That's what happens when we, as a country, fail to prosecute torture done in our name.
22
It's almost impossible to prosecute the police or the prosecutors.
They control the evidence and the crime scene.
And many of them are rotten to the core.
They control the evidence and the crime scene.
And many of them are rotten to the core.
Well heck, didn't these guys see all the Abu Grabby footage, and the reports of stuff from Gitmo Bay, and the rendition rumors? That's how we roll these days, better talk quick if ya want to stay unmaimed.
3
With the guards' mentality, is it any wonder those two guys wanted out of there?
6
Cuomo is a disgrace and a disaster. Time for a new Governor!
9
Actually, 2018 is the time.
If they weren't in prison, they wouldn't be facing abuse in the first place. Wake up, people!
1
It's hard sometimes to tell the difference between sincerity and trolling bait. When comments are short and blunt, I lean toward the latter conclusion.
1
In civilized countries, prisoners should not be abused. You do the crime, you should do the time - but you should be treated like a human being.
For one thing, most of them are going to get out some day. Do you really want the prisons releasing inmates who have been brutalized, and are seeking vengeance, or unable to control their seething rage?
For one thing, most of them are going to get out some day. Do you really want the prisons releasing inmates who have been brutalized, and are seeking vengeance, or unable to control their seething rage?
2
Prison is their punishment, not torture.
6
The majority of inmates are going to be released at some time.
It behooves us to treat them well.
It behooves us to treat them well.
8
I don't know if I'd agree with "well." Prison is supposed to be a negative experience.
But I would definitely say that we should treat all inmates with as much dignity as possible, and that we should NEVER commit crimes against them. People who commit crimes against a person who can't defend himself are thugs and cowards, with or without a badge.
But I would definitely say that we should treat all inmates with as much dignity as possible, and that we should NEVER commit crimes against them. People who commit crimes against a person who can't defend himself are thugs and cowards, with or without a badge.
1
Or, keep them inside longer.
I am simply appalled by the barbarity of these prison guards. This reads like something that might have happened in the Middle East, not the US. I sincerely hope that this investigation results in swift restitution for the affected inmates, and a full application of the law for their torturers.
American exceptionalism, indeed.
American exceptionalism, indeed.
27
Certain types of people want to become prison guards. How many out there would want that as a career? Psychological testing should be first on the pre-employment agenda. Same for those applying for police jobs. Many of these abusive people just want the power of the badge and a way to release their hatred and anger towards others. No different than career politicians seeking enrichment while they could care less about the people. It's a problem Always will be.
1
Every time I read something about prisoners being violated, degraded, put in solitary for extended periods of time, and now tortured, I am reminded of the recent NYT piece on the prisons in Norway. It is proof that prisons can be operated in ways that are humane, secure, and, perhaps most importantly, actually function as houses of correction where those who have served time are far more likely to reintegrate back into society. This country's treatment of prisoners must be reevaluated, from the length of the sentences, to the conditions of the prisons, to the mentality that once a person has committed a crime they are never again fit to be part of society.
55
in reply to Peter of New Haven:
Agreed, and it's not just Norwegian prisons; check out this recent NYT opinion piece on German prisons:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/07/opinion/what-we-learned-from-german-pr...
Agreed, and it's not just Norwegian prisons; check out this recent NYT opinion piece on German prisons:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/07/opinion/what-we-learned-from-german-pr...
1
Choking and torturing unarmed, restrained prisoners violates U.S. and international laws. It is not about veering off the path of department regulations - these guards are engaging in criminal behavior and I hope they will be found, tried and sent to jail.
48
As well as their "supervisors," up to and possibly including the Governor and his "tough guy stare."
1
If the guards were making their hourly rounds, as they were supposed to be doing, how come the guards didn't notice the hammering and sawing? Were any guards taken into a closet and beaten to find out what they heard? The fault of this escape rests solely on the staff at this prison.
206
I agree totally! They are so desperate to save their own jobs. The only ones found to have anything to do so far with the escape are prison personnel. Even Gov. Cuomo seems to have lost his mind over the matter. Imagine a Governor trying to intimidate a lowly prisoner!
All those prisoners who have been punished and beaten, who have had their privileges revoked should be listened to, and have their privileges returned. And those who have been vindictively relocated to other prisons should be returned.
All those prisoners who have been punished and beaten, who have had their privileges revoked should be listened to, and have their privileges returned. And those who have been vindictively relocated to other prisons should be returned.
1
Guards taken into a closet and beaten. Really? So the guards have no civil rights is that right? if you do that can you tell me when due process attached? So Miranda only attaoyuches to inmates is that right? Did they have the right to counsel before/after the beating? I was a Youth Correctional Counselor for the Department of Juvenile Justice in California. If you did that to me I would file criminal charges against you; I would file federal civil rights charges against and I would file civil suits as well. Your comment is so patently offensive I am glad you're not in our system. You're no better than the people you condemn. I would tell you to get counseling but it would do no good.
SO the insight gained is that the corrections officers in Clinton are ruthless, brutal, lazy, and so stupid that they thought they could get away with anything even while the facility was under intense scrutiny. And like inmates, no one is supposed to snitch. I know there have been fairly recent articles which recounted difficulties in disciplining rogue COs, but failure to address this encourages lawlessness in the NY prisons system, and would leave decent COs with no support.
39
The governor may have helped to set the tone with his insinuation that another inmate must have been kept awake by all that hacking and digging.
Such remarks from men with great power reverberate throughout the structures they command.
Who will rid me of this troublesome priest? The King wondered. And without him having given any express orders, the priest was out of his way shortly.
Such remarks from men with great power reverberate throughout the structures they command.
Who will rid me of this troublesome priest? The King wondered. And without him having given any express orders, the priest was out of his way shortly.
1
Makes me wonder if Governor Cuomo will make a return visit and ask the guards present during the beatings if they saw or heard anything?
One might argue that the guards won't be anymore forthcoming than the inmates. But then shouldn't they be on the same side of the bars at the end of the day with them?
I am reminded again that the values of a society become most clear when one looks at how the elderly and prisoners are treated.
One might argue that the guards won't be anymore forthcoming than the inmates. But then shouldn't they be on the same side of the bars at the end of the day with them?
I am reminded again that the values of a society become most clear when one looks at how the elderly and prisoners are treated.
12
The police-prison industry complex in the U.S. is out of control and is desperate need of reform.
No one, not even someone wearing a uniform, should have impunity for committing a violent act against someone who is not threatening you.
No one, not even someone wearing a uniform, should have impunity for committing a violent act against someone who is not threatening you.
42
The prison guards that part that participated in that horrendous treatment of the prisoners, who had no prior knowledge of the planned escape, should be fired and loose all their pensions. The prisoners were not the guilt ones involved in the escape it was one or more of the guards. What kind of animals is the system hiring especially when those in the honor block, other than the escapees, were model prisoners?
9
Look, the enhanced interrogation was warranted.
Dangerous men were on the loose. People felt terror.
Was there a ticking time bomb out there?
Intelligence was vital. Gathering it was timely.
Barbarity and torture were warranted.
(opinion of John Yoo to Andy C)
This is no different from the 9/11 attack (except for the numbers involved). The Bush/Cheney Crime Family has provided a perfect system for just this type of situation.
We all await the whitewash from Cuomo......
after all they are all criminals and deserve every bad thing that happens.
Sadist/Authoritarian/Bully heaven.
Dangerous men were on the loose. People felt terror.
Was there a ticking time bomb out there?
Intelligence was vital. Gathering it was timely.
Barbarity and torture were warranted.
(opinion of John Yoo to Andy C)
This is no different from the 9/11 attack (except for the numbers involved). The Bush/Cheney Crime Family has provided a perfect system for just this type of situation.
We all await the whitewash from Cuomo......
after all they are all criminals and deserve every bad thing that happens.
Sadist/Authoritarian/Bully heaven.
7
If this isn’t evidence of the moral rot allowed to fester at the heart of our country during the years of overreaction to the threat of “terrorism,” I don’t know what is.
12
I think this is different. Long before terrorism was in the forefront, there were dysfunctional relationships between guards and prisoners. Being a prison guard is a tough, dangerous job that does not necessarily attract the best and the brighter nor bring out the best in people.
"If this isn’t evidence of the moral rot allowed to fester at the heart of our country during the years of overreaction to the threat of “terrorism,” I don’t know what is."
Oh, I'm sure it was happily festering there before 9/11 too.
Oh, I'm sure it was happily festering there before 9/11 too.
1
While we are attempting to get some justice for abused prisoners, the New York Times should look into whether Richard Matt was summarily executed by the authorities after his escape. For several days after his death, there was no mention of the circumstances surrounding his death, then a story emerged that he had a shotgun that he refused to put down before he was shot by the authorities.
It is curious that this story of the shotgun and his refusal to drop it only came out later. It is also odd that the only photo I've seen from the scene of his death shows no shotgun in it at all. It could have been removed by the authorities before allowing the reporters to film the scene, but why would they do such a thing, the one piece of evidence that would lend credibility to their story that he was violently resisting arrest?
I have no dog in this fight. He was a vicious murderer, on the loose again. But that doesn't give the authorities the right to act as judge, jury and executioner in the wilderness. Has anyone looked into the circumstances of his death?
Here is an image of his death scene, courtesy of WIVB TV:
http://wivb.com/2015/06/30/graphic-photo-obtained-of-richard-matts-body-...
8
I too would like to see some documentation of that event. My guess is that the shooting of Matt was clumsy work. At the same time, with so many people on the case, it's probably lucky that even one of the two escapees (Sweat) encountered a nimble and highly-skilled officer.
I believe I heard recently that Matt was very inebriated at the time of his killing, with a very high BAC of 0.18%.
It is shameful that we do not ensure that prisoners are not kept safe from sadistic guards. We KNOW this will happen unless strong regulations and outside oversight are implemented. The Zimbardo prison experiment at Stanford showed the even "normal" people acting as guards become harsh and cruel very quickly.
15
Commendations and promotions are sure to follow.
8
Disgusting. No display of wisdom at all by the staff. Hundreds of men had to suffer for the bad decisions of two smart criminals and at least two unwise staff members. The inmates were already terrified of the consequences with more restrictions,loss of privileges, and loss of opportunities for better conditions. Physical violence to seek out information is never good. The escapees had managed to fool a lot of staff and other inmates at all hours of the day for many weeks.
11
Having read this, two key points come to mind:
1. The prison system in New York State is in need of serious overhaul, both with regard to current employee compliance and hiring in general — immediately. Otherwise, in two months (when no one in the general public is paying attention), this kind of misconduct will surely emerge again.
2. Cuomo may want to avoid making enemies among the inmate population. He'll find himself among them soon enough, lord willing.
1. The prison system in New York State is in need of serious overhaul, both with regard to current employee compliance and hiring in general — immediately. Otherwise, in two months (when no one in the general public is paying attention), this kind of misconduct will surely emerge again.
2. Cuomo may want to avoid making enemies among the inmate population. He'll find himself among them soon enough, lord willing.
30
The US prison system in all its glory.
16
Great. Guantanamo Bay on American soil.
Andrew Cuomo needs to go. I guess he wasn't lying when he said the escapees would be found by "any means necessary".
Andrew Cuomo needs to go. I guess he wasn't lying when he said the escapees would be found by "any means necessary".
42
That surely won't stand the light of day, I pray.
4
The head of the state corrections department should be fired and the US Dept. of Justice should intervene. Nobody engages in this type of brutality unless they're pretty sure they can get away with it.
The taxpayers suffer because some of these prisoners will file lawsuits.
It's time to end the Police State and the Prison-Industrial Complex. Police departments and Corrections Departments seem to function mostly as gangs. Why do we tolerate this??
The taxpayers suffer because some of these prisoners will file lawsuits.
It's time to end the Police State and the Prison-Industrial Complex. Police departments and Corrections Departments seem to function mostly as gangs. Why do we tolerate this??
113
If you are sickened by yet another account of how the legal system mistreats the vulnerable, go to the Prisoners Legal Service of NY and make a tax-deductible contribution.
86
My G-d! My G-d!! What kind of a nation are we becoming?? The very foundations of our Constitution are being thrown into the toilet! We talk about rights violations in other countries, and look at us! What hypocrisy! It makes me sick to my stomach.
148
Perhaps we are becoming the nation we always were. Isn't that one possibility?
Please tell me that the prisoners will receive restitution and justice for what has happened to them.
52
I suspect that these inmates were tortured out of frustration these guards must have experienced at being exposed for not doing their jobs. Truly pathetic.
140
This is absolutely disgraceful -- and I have to say, criminal. The governor should answer for these abuses, and see that the abusers are not only fired but arrested and charged with assault. The staffs of our jails and prisons must know that this kind of behavior is NEVER acceptable no matter what has happened at their facility.
24
So basically corrections guards committed serious felonies against these inmates. Lets see if they get charged by a prosecutor. My guess is that they will not be charged.
254
Prison guards are the very definition of "necessary evil."
They are necessary (at least in prison), but they are really sadistic, evil people.
Of course they won't be charged with any wrong-doing.
Because beating up an inmate is, by definition, the right thing to do.
They are necessary (at least in prison), but they are really sadistic, evil people.
Of course they won't be charged with any wrong-doing.
Because beating up an inmate is, by definition, the right thing to do.
1
It's not a guess. It's a certainty.
But they should be charged, prosecuted, and get long sentences. And that includes all their supervisor who knew about this. They should get the longest prison sentences.
This is the United States of America not Saudi Arabia of Iran.
This is the United States of America not Saudi Arabia of Iran.
It is really hard to feel good about the United States of America.
259
How right you are. The United States is a country at war with itself. The 2 party political system doesn't work and the Supreme Court gave our democracy to the uber rich and their super pacs, rendering citizens with no electoral power. The United States is unfortunately populated by approximately 35% that would rather lie about and embrace stupid pseudo scientific theories about climate change rather than face the truth and adapt their selfish lifestyles. 35-45% believe its ok to freely buy and trade and possess assault weapons even as our children are being gunned down. The Republicans and their sick twisted world view and warmongerism are to blame for the moral decline of America.
1
True--and not just because of the bullies and torturers we keep hearing of, either, but because of those of our fellow Americans who accept such acts and attempt to justify them, as some of these comments attest. It's shameful, really.
The guards and administrators who participated in the break or in the interrogations described have all broken the law. They need to be prosecuted. Currently there seems to be a scapegoat being made of one or two people.
43
Law enforcement behaving badly! Is that even a news?
16
Forreal.....in my life time career I've seen and heard it ALL
Gee... I feel awful about this.
These 'inmates' cost the tax payers 50k per year. They have more services available to them than many middle class families. To be sure, I feel like I have been 'slammed against ...bars' every time I pay taxes that support these 'inmates'. If these 'inmates' don't like gettling slapped around, maybe they can think before they assault, murder, rob, sell drugs.....
I have ZERO sympathy
These 'inmates' cost the tax payers 50k per year. They have more services available to them than many middle class families. To be sure, I feel like I have been 'slammed against ...bars' every time I pay taxes that support these 'inmates'. If these 'inmates' don't like gettling slapped around, maybe they can think before they assault, murder, rob, sell drugs.....
I have ZERO sympathy
10
This is not about sympathy. It is about upholding standards of conduct that the professionals must adhere to, or else be just like many of the inmates they are thought to be superior to.
14
Gee...I feel awful that people like you condone torture.
Don't forget your tax dollars support the thugs who work in the prisons. Every time you pay taxes you are okay with paying the salaries of those criminals?
Don't forget your tax dollars support the thugs who work in the prisons. Every time you pay taxes you are okay with paying the salaries of those criminals?
12
" feel like I have been 'slammed against ...bars'"
But, of course, you've never had those things happen to you. If you did, you'd realise the difference between physical assault and whining about paying taxes.
But, of course, you've never had those things happen to you. If you did, you'd realise the difference between physical assault and whining about paying taxes.
16
Nothing changes, even with Democrats like Cuomo and Schneiderman in charge. Who says Democrats don't approve of torture?
13
LOL, any idea that the Democrats "do stuff differently" should be disabused right here.
NOBODY has anything to be proud of here. The prison was run chaotically -- dangerous prisoners escaped -- they seem to have no sense of duty or honor -- they are abusive and irrational.
Every single guard and employee needs to be fired ASAP -- and stripped of their pensions -- and they need to bring in a whole new team, and new staff.
NOBODY has anything to be proud of here. The prison was run chaotically -- dangerous prisoners escaped -- they seem to have no sense of duty or honor -- they are abusive and irrational.
Every single guard and employee needs to be fired ASAP -- and stripped of their pensions -- and they need to bring in a whole new team, and new staff.
1
my tax dollars at work
7
If this information is correct, New York State Authorities should take a closer look into these stories and reports. If verifiable and truthful - the alleged Prison Officials should be investigated, judged and punished appropriately.
21
Governor Cuomo's handling of the escape incident gives new life to the old saying that "a fish rots from the head down."
214
This kind of abuse doesn't appear all by itself, or is due to a few rogue guards. This is systemic. The guards knew they were free to torture people and so they did. We've seen this at Rikers as well. Shame on Governor Cuomo walking through the prison like he owns the place. And what will happen to those guards? What would happen if your average citizen tortured someone like that? Let alone many people. And what of the supervisors?
189
I don't get it. Why is this news?
The torture of prisoners, and extrajudicial executions of "suspects" by police on our streets, are the accepted norms.
The torture of prisoners, and extrajudicial executions of "suspects" by police on our streets, are the accepted norms.
30
You loose your honor block status for not hearing anything. Sounds sensible. Next time you hear someone cutting out, he will snitch. Brutal people locked up in a brutal place just what one expects for murders.
3
Are you serious? How do you distinguish between someone who really didn't hear anything, and someone who did? Do you just continue the beatings until morale improves?
9
Give me a break, its not possible to cut through steel and concrete silently. These guys live on top of each other 24/7. It's not possible to not hear it. Whatever you think of the ruffing up they got, the transfers and stripping of privileges was done by professional prison administrators who are sending out the notice that silent cover-ups cost you your privileges. This news is all over the New York State prison population right now faster than the internet.
4
"Next time you hear someone cutting out, he will snitch."
Really? As much as I abhor the guards' behavior, I'm sure the other prisoners would have done much worse had someone snitched.
Really? As much as I abhor the guards' behavior, I'm sure the other prisoners would have done much worse had someone snitched.
6
What a surprise the tactics we allow authority abroad would find their way home.
27
It's a shame that after reading this I'm not at all surprised. People in authority who snooze when they're supposed to be working will definitely try to find scapegoats...who are conveniently other inmates. I hope there is video evidence of this. I also hope that some of the officers involved will be honest enough to own up to their actions.
23
Well it comes down to the inmates saying they didn't see or hear anything before the escape and the interrogating corrections officers stating they didn't assault anybody.
Let's call it even.
Let's call it even.
10
How do you figure this is "even"? How did the jacked-up thugs that "guard" this prison suffer from this incident?
9
Wait a minute - the prisoners are supposed to be listening for suspicious noises? Where were the guards? Shouldn't they have been checking and listening? I think this overreaction on their part is due to their feeling guilty that they let this happen. So, let's take it out on the prisoners who had nothing to do with it. It's not their fault, fellows, it's yours!
8
Gosh, I hope you're never accused falsely. It would be hard for you to justify not being punished anyway, and severely, too; after all, you're ready to justify it against others already.
6
Governor Cuomo,
There are people being tortured in your state. People are restrained and brutally beaten, and it's more pervasive than just at Dannemora. You had your Clint Eastwood moment, and you got two dead prisoners, and many crooked corrections officers for your efforts. It doesn't matter if these men who weren't involved in the escape were murderers or rapists; we are all guaranteed a freedom from cruel and unusual punishment.
You are the chief executive of a great state and you're letting men get tortured. How you can have anything less than a zero tolerance policy is as irresponsible and negligent as it gets. Governor Cuomo, you are in charge of a state where torture is occurring. You have to take responsibility for this.
There are people being tortured in your state. People are restrained and brutally beaten, and it's more pervasive than just at Dannemora. You had your Clint Eastwood moment, and you got two dead prisoners, and many crooked corrections officers for your efforts. It doesn't matter if these men who weren't involved in the escape were murderers or rapists; we are all guaranteed a freedom from cruel and unusual punishment.
You are the chief executive of a great state and you're letting men get tortured. How you can have anything less than a zero tolerance policy is as irresponsible and negligent as it gets. Governor Cuomo, you are in charge of a state where torture is occurring. You have to take responsibility for this.
212
Very well said. One thing I would like to point out - Governor Cuomo IS RESPONSIBLE for the beatings. These are HIS CO'S. Under HIS watch. His behavior at the prison sealed their fate.
If they locked Cuomo in a cell with the men who were beaten, how far would he get with his "tough guy" stare? Not too far, I'll bet!
If they locked Cuomo in a cell with the men who were beaten, how far would he get with his "tough guy" stare? Not too far, I'll bet!
8
Correction: one dead prisoner and one recaptured, who probably wishes he'd been captured dead.
4
Only one died.
You lose your freedoms after incarceration in America.
You lose your freedoms after incarceration in America.
Seems obvious that the Govenor either directly or passively authorized the beatings. He was on TV News asking the prisoner in next cell what he heard and saw.
147
Sounds like Shawshank doesn't it? That is so weird.
9
Yeah but in Shawshank Redemption, the good guys were all prisoners. In real life, there are no good guys in prisons at all.
1
How about in Governors' mansions?
1
Welcome to the United States of Saudi Arabia, or Iraq or China or North Korea. This is horrific.
121
“You can judge a society by how well it treats its prisoners”.
- Fyodor Dostoevsky
That being said, we are talking about convicted criminals here. What got these men into prison in the first place is violence and transgressions far, far worse than what they describe here. So accusations of hypocrisy can go all around.
All prisoners deserve to be treated with professionalism. But no more. Not because we owe anything to convicted murderers, rapists, and bank robbers. But because we owe this baseline treatment to ourselves, and what we think about the quality of our society.
- Fyodor Dostoevsky
That being said, we are talking about convicted criminals here. What got these men into prison in the first place is violence and transgressions far, far worse than what they describe here. So accusations of hypocrisy can go all around.
All prisoners deserve to be treated with professionalism. But no more. Not because we owe anything to convicted murderers, rapists, and bank robbers. But because we owe this baseline treatment to ourselves, and what we think about the quality of our society.
20
But they got a lot less.
1
Last I checked, beating helpless people, including prisoners, is not professional
Except for the KGB and Gestapo.
Except for the KGB and Gestapo.
1
These prisoners are undoubtedly not the best in our society. But this article points to shameful and likely illegal conduct on the part of the Department of Corrections.
I knew when Cuomo swaggered through the prison for his requisite photo op, and stopped at an adjoining cell and made the infamous comment that the inmate must have been a very sound sleeper, that is was curtains for these guys.
Cuomo must be held accountable for the outrageous and deplorable conduct of his Department of Corrections.
Great that the New York Times is all over this.
I knew when Cuomo swaggered through the prison for his requisite photo op, and stopped at an adjoining cell and made the infamous comment that the inmate must have been a very sound sleeper, that is was curtains for these guys.
Cuomo must be held accountable for the outrageous and deplorable conduct of his Department of Corrections.
Great that the New York Times is all over this.
424
You shouldn't even have to point out that the men who were beaten and abused "were not the best." That's not even relevant. Human beings shouldn't be treated like this. Period. As other commenters have pointed out, where's the justice for these men? If they can tell their stories in the face of being threatened with death - these are some brave dudes. They deserve better.
3
Yes, kudos to NY Times for being all over this. Am looking forward to these guards getting the punishment they deserve.
Cuomo has a hot temper. I only hope that he lost his cool just enough so some CO or warden can effectively implicate the gov to save his own neck. Preet Bharara can take it from there.
2
So how many of these correction officers have been arrested? Such courage! Beating shackled & cuffed inmates like that. Men's Men for sure.
Did Governor Cuomo return to give his tough guy stare to the guards who mercilessly beat the inmates?
We need to see some justice here.
Did Governor Cuomo return to give his tough guy stare to the guards who mercilessly beat the inmates?
We need to see some justice here.
327
"— they resorted to brutal tactics that most likely violated department regulations." "Most likely"? You mean it is possible that these assaults did not violate department regulations?
How about some arrests, trials and prison time if these assaults are proven as described? It seems as if this prison was corrupt, incompetent and violent - and that is the guards and administrators.
How about some arrests, trials and prison time if these assaults are proven as described? It seems as if this prison was corrupt, incompetent and violent - and that is the guards and administrators.
223
Maybe we should start using Siri Law sense very one love Mulsums.
Every guard who assaulted a prisoner belongs in prison themselves. Don't expect people to respect the system when it's corrupt. And if any of these prisoners fulfill their sentences or get parole and get out, how do you think they're going to feel about cops in general when they were unfairly beaten in jail by corrections officers.
Every square foot of space in a prison should have video coverage.
Every square foot of space in a prison should have video coverage.
492
I agree 100%. Let us see how quickly Cuomo addresses this issue and how soon after that the wheels grind to the speed of oozing toothpaste.
10
Including all aspects of penal staff activities.
Rule of law, freedom and liberty truly matter in the time of a crisis. We preach other countries about our "American" values but when the going gets tough, we behave no different than these other countries. Even in our recent history Iraq, Guntanamo Bay, Drone wars, killings of African American men stick out as sore thumb where we have failed our value of due process. This incident only strengthens this theory and exposes our hypocrisy.
91
Thank you. I couldn't agree with you more. And I find this very disturbing, also because sadism--our own as well--does not get examined or modulated.
7
We used to aspire to be a country based on "Law & Order", a country based on laws, not on men. But such aspirations are long dead and gone.
2
Is anyone surprised?
Everyone involved with this situation should be relieved of his/her duties
post haste.
Is this the first time?
You can bert the farm it is not.
Everyone involved with this situation should be relieved of his/her duties
post haste.
Is this the first time?
You can bert the farm it is not.
13
This story makes me sick to my stomach. Way back when, as the escape happened, we were deluged with photos of uniformed officers checking out various sites to try to find the escapees. My thought at the time, learning more about the town where the correctional faculty is located, was this is "the family business".... like many other "family businesses" such as the prison in Auburn, NY. Not much else goes on in Dannemora except providing support to the business of the institution. Armed guards, with pretty good salaries and benefits and pensions I assume, dealing with a large group of prisoners who were considered modeled prisoners, had privileges and some kind of life. Now it's been taken away by the actions of prison guards who sound more like they are comic book charters from the Old West.
194
Not that it justifies one bit of this behavior, if they're like guards here in OK (but we do live in "tax cut heaven" and public service hell), they make about eleven bucks an hour, and are greatly understaffed. Most here never work enough years to get a pension, due to the nature of the work and the low pay. But I don't know how it is in NY. Maybe it should be looked into.
2
It depends on many factors. Where prison guards are STATE employees -- public union -- they make incredible money. Our state prisons pay around $150K and up at mid-career. I believe they start at $90,000. This is rural parts of the state, where the average house is about $70,000 and the taxes are incredibly low ($800 a year). A person earning $150K is living like a king.
On the other hand, if it a "for profit" prison run by a corporation -- as jb says below, it can pay barely above minimum wage.
Frankly: neither of these is fair. $150K is obscene, and $11 an hour is an insult. Surely there is some way to pay a fair wage of $40,000 or so.
On the other hand, if it a "for profit" prison run by a corporation -- as jb says below, it can pay barely above minimum wage.
Frankly: neither of these is fair. $150K is obscene, and $11 an hour is an insult. Surely there is some way to pay a fair wage of $40,000 or so.
1
CC, just curious, so I checked the data. NY correctional officer average is just above $61,000. It would be a lot down here, not sure what it would be worth up there, though.
2
Society turns its eye's so quickly to abuses behind bars. These people have rights and deserve a voice. I hope these officers and all officers are held accountable for their crimes.
62
When Cuomo is embarrassed, a price must be paid.
147
You said it all. Will stop here at reading the remaining comments.
2
I hope Cuomo lost his head enough to have personally have ordered beatings, and that a guard or warden can implicate the Gov to save his own neck. Add Preet Bharara, and see ya later, high handed Andy.
2
Unnecessary and barbaric. We accuse third-world hell holes of subjecting prisoners to this kind of treatment, yet it is occurring here in North America. Shame.
229
Aaand here we go again. While we're talking about prisoners, I have no idea why we need to keep paying for what is, essentially, a bunch of thugs. Between the lawsuits and the hospitalizations, how much extra money is all this brutality costing us taxpayers?
4
Are you saying that the travesty here is about what it's costing taxpayers? If so, it's probably pennies per citizen.
Where the outrage should be directed is at this brutal, dehumanizing treatment of helpless, shackled individuals who have no recourse and will someday be expected to re-enter society.
The prison system brings out the worst in its inmates, and then we wonder why the recidivism rates are so high...
Where the outrage should be directed is at this brutal, dehumanizing treatment of helpless, shackled individuals who have no recourse and will someday be expected to re-enter society.
The prison system brings out the worst in its inmates, and then we wonder why the recidivism rates are so high...
9
horrifying and unsurprising
73
Now we know where water boarding originated